# Samsung LED + CEC + Crestron Digital Media



## GoGo Delicious

I posted this on the Crestron Yahoo group but no one seems to have an answer.


I was wondering if anyone has used the CEC protocol on a Samsung LED, specifically the UN55B8000 55" 1080p LED HDTV , within a Crestron DM (Digital Media) environment?


I am planning 2 separate projects with DM and I want to control the Samsung LED with CEC. The descriptions of the DM system on Crestrons website says "Through proper CEC signal management, Crestron allows you to take control of each device as you like."


Has any one done this or something similar? If so how difficult was it to implement and is it reliable for Power (On/Off), input selection, etc?


Thanks in advance.


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## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/17380439
> 
> 
> I posted this on the Crestron Yahoo group but no one seems to have an answer.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has used the CEC protocol on a Samsung LED, specifically the UN55B8000 55" 1080p LED HDTV , within a Crestron DM (Digital Media) environment?



I haven't used it so I'm not really helpful. But IMO I just cant trust it.. its not standard for all equipment yet and is still fairly new. I hate trying things and then having to redo them because "it should have worked" if you do try it however, I'd like to know how it turns out.


EDIT: Also I'm curious to know what devices crestron tested this with and the scenario in which they tested. (since they post that it you can use the CEC protocol)


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/17381753
> 
> 
> I haven't used it so I'm not really helpful. But IMO I just cant trust it.. its not standard for all equipment yet and is still fairly new. I hate trying things and then having to redo them because "it should have worked" if you do try it however, I'd like to know how it turns out.



Thanks for the reply. The CEC protocol is part of the HDMI standard and the reason I decided to go with CEC is that this particular display Samsung states on it's web site that "HDMI-CEC" is a feature of the UN55B8000 55" 1080p LED HDTV .


I was hesitant on the Samsung display, due to the lack of an RS-232 port, but after 4 Pioneer Elite plasmas, which are great by the way, I wanted to try something different plus I have picked out all displays in our house and my wife wanted to pick this one. By the way this DM system is for our house.


We are in the process of running Fiber to all the display in our house, as this will be a Fiber based DM system, and I wanted to run just one HDMI cable from the room controller ( DM-RMC-100-F ) for video and display control.


I will let you know how it goes, using CEC as a control protocol.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/17381753
> 
> 
> EDIT: Also I'm curious to know what devices crestron tested this with and the scenario in which they tested. (since they post that it you can use the CEC protocol)



My next step is to give TB a call and ask that very same question.


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## roddymcg

At TB DM training I attended last month it was suggested to turn off any form of CEC. In practice I always turn off CEC...


YMMV


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## bluewaves

CEC never works right, first thing I suggest doing when setting up any equipment is turning it off, the only chance of it working is when you have lets say a samsung tv and a samsung blu-ray then it might work, but even then I wouldn't rely on it, make sure you have a second way to control that TV or device, either by hauling cat 5 for an IR Repeater or eye or RF or serial control cable.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roddymcg* /forum/post/17391139
> 
> 
> At TB DM training I attended last month it was suggested to turn off any form of CEC. In practice I always turn off CEC...
> 
> 
> YMMV



When I was at DM training over at Crestron West they actually had CEC working and showing how it can control a display (PON, POF, Input). Since I am installing this in my house I am going to really try hard to make CEC work, specifically PON and POF. I only want one cable, Fiber, from the DM system to the Room Controller ( DM-RMC-100-F ) and from the room controller to the display a very short HDMI cable.


I am going to call TB this afternoon and see what I need to do to control the Samsung. If I can not get CEC to work with the Samsung, I am going with the Pioneer Elite Pro-141FD since I can control it via Ethernet and the DM-RMC-100-F has an Ethernet port.


Going the Pioneer route I will have two cables coming from the room controller, an HDMI cable and an ethernet cable both going to the Pioneer display. Either way I will still only have 1 fiber cable, going to each of the 5 locations, which will carry Data (Ethernet, RS-232, IR, USB/HID), Audio and Video.


I should have this installed and completed by the end of next week. If I get it to work via CEC I will post my results. Although the results will only be beneficial for those running a Crestron DM system.


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## stefuel

"I should have this installed and completed by the end of next week. If I get it to work via CEC I will post my results. Although the results will only be beneficial for those running a Crestron DM system."



And if you can't...................DON'T JUMP










Actually, I have been reading this thread and discovered liquid forming at the corners of my mouth. I WANT IT. I only have three locations to send it to but it's a finished house and the thought of a single run of fiber is making me feel all funny inside


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/17393174
> 
> 
> I should have this installed and completed by the end of next week.



I have decided post my experience, and pics, on setting up a Crestron DM system. For those of you who dont know what a "DM" system is, it's Crestron Digital Media distribution system you can read more about what it is HERE .


I have stated in a previous post that "I should have this installed and completed by the end of next week." but alas, a call into Crestron this AM inquiring about shipping status of the DM system makes me alter my install schedule. I received a email stating that my shipment was going out on the 21st. Which was partially true, the DM-RMC-100-F's were shipped. But I was told that the DM system itself won't ship until Thursday the 28th. So this means I will not have the DM system "installed and completed by the end of next week" but more likely the week of the 30th and maybe even the weekend of the 4th.


The reason for the delay is that Crestron actually installs all the cards, input and output, that you specified on the order. I am installing a DM-8x8 and I was under the impression, from DM training, that all the cards are field installed by the dealer with the exception of the output cards for the DM-16x16 , and that Crestron pre-installs those cards. I guess Im wrong.


What I have done so far? Not much. I have pulled and terminated fiber to two of the five rooms so far. I am running multimode/multi-strand, 50 micron, SC/SC fiber.


So where are the pics you ask? I would have taken pics to post of the fiber install and termination but I already have the TV's backup and I really didn't think about pics until I thought of doing this post. At any rate I will have pics of the fiber, DM system being installed, configured, etc once I actually start the install.


More to come . . . . .


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## GoGo Delicious

UPDATE

The Crestron DigitalMedia Install Progress - I ordered the DM system and all the cards, DM-RMC-100-F's , etc back in the beginning of October. My DM system is a fiber based system and the output cards needed, the DMCO-13, were not released yet. In fact they were released about a week ago and I was notified that the DM 8x8 has shipped and I should be receiving it tomorrow. As far as the DMCO-13's go, they are suppose to ship out Friday 12/11 or Monday 12/14. Fiber has been pulled and terminated so I am waiting on the DMCO-13's in order to get the complete system up and running.


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## stefuel

Yo, GG hows the DM system coming along???


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/17747324
> 
> 
> Yo, GG hows the DM system coming along???



Here is what I was told by Crestron on Tuesday the 15th. It looks like another 1 to 2 weeks before the DMCO 13's ship. I have everything except the DMCO 13's which is holding up my project. See the email' from Crestron below. At the end of the second email it states, and I quote, "This date is tentative and subject to change."


**************

From Crestron Support to Crestron Sales


From: Deborah Calimlin

Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:49 PM

To: Jean Fontana

Subject: DM Order#*****


Jean:

Can you please “reply all”


James would like an ETA on the shipment of his DMCO-13 from Order#******.


Thank you


Deborah Calimlin

Advanced Technical Support Group

**************


Below is the response I received from Jean at Crestron Sales support


**************

Hello Deb/James,

The current lead time on this as of today is about 1- 2 more weeks. This date is tentative and subject to change.

Thank you!

**************


HOPEFULLY, they will ship next week. If not we are looking at January for the actual install.


Also, I did get some news from Crestron regarding CEC control. The reason I was talking to Debbie from Crestrons Advanced Technical Support Group was to discuss CEC implementation. She emailed me a document, published by HDMI, LLC that has all the CEC codes needed to control HDMI devices. Also, Crestron released a firmware update for the DM-MD8x8 & 16x16 that specifically address CEC, among other things. In regards to CEC the release notes state;


CEC Device control on the following devices

DMC-HD

DMC-HD-DSP

DM-TX-100

DM-TX-100-F ( The one's I am using)

DM-TX-200


The HDMI CEC document, with all the HEX codes, is what was needed to implement CEC control with the new firmware update. Once I get the DMCO-13's I will let everyone know how it's working out.


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## GoGo Delicious

I received an email from Crestron that the DMCO-13's have shipped via UPS Ground and according to UPS I should be receiving them on the 29th.


With that in mind, I am looking to do the install on the week of Jan 4th.


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## stefuel

Crap, I wish you lived closer. I'd come and help for free just to see how it works. My curiousity level has peaked.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/17771843
> 
> 
> Crap, I wish you lived closer. I'd come and help for free just to see how it works.



And you would be more than welcome to come by! ! !


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## thomasamiller

please keep us updated... we have an upcoming project and interested in hearing other dealers opinions of the DM switcher....


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## GoGo Delicious

So I finally receive the DMCO-13's this afternoon and started installing the DM system.


Here is a pic of one of the DMCO-13's.










There are2 Fiber outputs and 2 HDMI outputs on each card. The fiber outs will be going to the DM-RMC-100-F's and the HDMI outputs, for audio, will be going to the corresponding rooms receiver (Each room has it's own receiver). You also see 2 channel audio break out but I will not be using those. Note all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest.


Here is a quick summary of the Crestron system I have installed. Once I have the DM system completely installed I will post details of my system including lighting, shades and HVAC, including pics and network information.


Controllers communicating via EISC

Pro2 (Audio/Video)

PAC2M (Lighting, Shades, HVAC, Whole house aromatic system ( ScentAir ))

Touch Panels

TPMC-8X (Living Room)

TPMC-4X (Master BR)

iPhone (Media Room)

iPhone (Den)
AV Switching

Neothings Avalon 8x8 (now used for Digital Audio, Coax/TOSLINK, only)

Crestron DM8x8 Fiber Based w/DM-RMC-100-F's
AV Equip.

Receivers

Denon AVR2807 (Living Room)

Denon AVR2807 (Master BR Room)

Pioneer Elite SC-05 (Den)

Pioneer Elite SC-25 (Media Room)
Displays

Pioneer Elite Pro FHD-01 (Living Room)

Pioneer Elite Pro-111-FD (Master BR)

Samsung UN46B8000 46" 1080p LED HDTV (Den)

Pioneer Elite Pro-141-FD (Media Room)
Video Sources

Kaleidescape KServer-1500 1U Server 4 1TB Drives. Wil be upgrading to 4 2TB drives this month

Kaleidescape 1080p player (Living Room)

Kaleidescape 1080p player (Master BR)

Kaleidescape 1080p mini player (Den)

Kaleidescape 1080p Mini player (Media Room)

AppleTV

Cable Box (Only 1 for the whole house)

MacPro

Wii
Audio Sources

Crestron CEN-Track w/ Am/FM/Sirius Digital Card

Kaleidescape

AppleTV
Here is a pic that I took today showing the DM-RMC-100-F installed. Right now I have the entire living room running on the DM system. Tomorrow I will have the rest of the house completed.


Here you see the DM-RMC-100-F attached to the wall along with the the fiber cable connecting to it (D & M) and power (G & 24). The DM 8x8 sends the following to each DM-RMC-100-F, one is located at every display in our house, over a single pair of, 2 strand, fiber.
*1)* Uncompressed HDMI 1.3 video with support for Deep Color
*2)* Uncompressed Multi-channel Audio (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, up to 8ch PCM)
*3)* Ethernet (10/100)
*4)* RS-232 (1 Port)
*5)* IR (2 Ports)
*6)* USB (1 Port)
*7)* Relay (2 Ports)
*8)* Digital/Contact
*9)* Ability to embed CEC commands directly within the HDMI Channel and send to any display
*10)* IP Phone System - Not only that I am able to run 1-9 above, but also our entire phone system over the same fiber cable that the DM system uses.











As for the DM8x8 here is a pic of it before all the cards were installed. As you can see 2 HDMI cards are missing as well as both the output cards, the DMCO-13's











Once I have the entire house completed I will post complete details.


Thats all for now.


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## thomasamiller

Great post. Ready for the next hit!


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## osninc

Curious if youve been able to get it to work and if so will it do a PON and POFF? Thanks for all the detail already.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *osninc* /forum/post/17836159
> 
> 
> Curious if youve been able to get it to work and if so will it do a PON and POFF? Thanks for all the detail already.



I have not tried to use PON/POF via CEC. Since my last post I have been swamped (which is a good thing).


I am hoping to post a detailed schematic that includes 2D CAD drawings of my entire system, network, A/V routing, lighting, shades, HVAC and CEC details by the end of this month.


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## thomasamiller

any update?


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## cntp

I'm curious as to the results of this as well!


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## GoGo Delicious

Hi All,

Sorry for not updating, I have been REALL, REALLY busy.


Quick summary. I installed a Crestron Digital Media System (DM-8x8) in my home and running fiber from the DM-8x8 to 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays.


I am using the DMCO-13 output cards (2) on the DM-8x8. Each card has 2 Fiber outputs and 2 HDMI output. As I mentioned above the fiber from the DM-8x8 is going form the 2 DMCO-13 cards to the 4 DM-RMC-100-F's one at each of the four plasma displays. The HDMI outs (4 of them) are each going to the rooms receiver HDMI input carrying uncompressed audio. There is also 2 channel audio break out but I will not be using those. Note all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest.


So here is where the project stands.


1) The entire system is in, DM 8x8, DM Input Cards, DMCO 13 output cards, DM-RMC-100-F boxes.


2) Everything has been programmed. I do have to say programming a DM system is very easy and straight forward. No issues at all.


3) Control - I am running one Fiber cable from the DM-8x8 to each DM-RMC-100-F. From the DM-RMC-100-F I am controlling 2 of the 3 plasmas via RS-232, running 6" of CAT5 from a terminal block on the DM-RMC-100-F to a RJ45 to DB9 adapter connected to the displays.


The other Plasma (Samsung) is being controlled via CEC. I am only controlling PON and POF since there is no need to switch inputs on the displays. All thats is done by the DM-8x8. Programming CEC on the Crestron DM-8x8 was very easy. You do need to obtain the CEC codes from HDMI, LLC .


As far as Plasma #4 goes, the Pioneer Elite Pro-141-FD, it has not yet been installed (it's sitting in storage). I am re-doing the media room and waiting for custom millwork to be finished (Mid-Feb I am told), Drapes to be completed (Late Feb early March) and Sofa to be finished (Late Feb early March).


4) Switching - The Crestron DM system uses Crestron quick switching technology. I do have to say that switching is fast. The longest delay I experience between switching and the image being displayed is 3 seconds, which is Kaleidescape. The quickest is switching to my MacPro which is almost immediate 

Although I am a Crestron dealer/programer I might be a bit biased but there is nothing out there that any other company offers that can come close to Crestron's DM system. Not Control4, Just Add Power, Gefen, no one. Crestron's DM system can take any video source, Component, Composite, DVI, HDMI and send it to any display.


I do have pics, schematics and 2D architectural drawings of my automation system that, when I have time, I will be posting along with a complete write up showing every detail of my system. I am debating of putting it in Home Automation or Home A/V Distribution and Networking. Since it's both I can't decide.


I hope that satisfys for now. Any questions? I will be more than happy to answer.


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## thomasamiller

That is really awesome update, glad to hear it is working out so well for you. I will be in the market soon.


Can you do a test when you get a minute? See what happens when you "listen to music from CD while watching Kalediscape on TV". In other words, mix the audio and video streams and see how DM handles it. I am really curious about this because I do it a lot.


Thanks!!


EDIT: also, what is the PON/POFF codes? is it consistent among all mfgs (ie a standard?). How did you do the CEC coding? Did you use the DM configuration tool, or program it in SIMPL?


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomasamiller* /forum/post/18012462
> 
> 
> Can you do a test when you get a minute? See what happens when you "listen to music from CD while watching Kalediscape on TV". In other words, mix the audio and video streams and see how DM handles it. I am really curious about this because I do it a lot.



I will do this tomorrow and let you know. I am sure it will handle it fine.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomasamiller* /forum/post/18012462
> 
> 
> also, what is the PON/POFF codes? is it consistent among all mfgs (ie a standard?).



The PON/POF codes I received are straight from HDMI, LLC the company that sets the standard. According to the 1.3 documentation, 276 pages, a company can use their own proprietary codes but must also support a set of standard codes that are set/adopted by HDMI, LLC. Within the "Standard" code set are the codes for PON and POF, among others, that must be supported.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomasamiller* /forum/post/18012462
> 
> 
> How did you do the CEC coding? Did you use the DM configuration tool, or program it in SIMPL?



I did it in SIMPL. I will post a few screen shots over the weekend, more likely Sunday, of the CEC coding in SIMPL.

Hope that helps.


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## GoGo Delicious

Just 2 pics. 1 showing the DM-8x8 and the other is a partial rack shot.


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## thomasamiller

cool, thx for the info. You should start a thread in the "home entertainment and theater builder" documenting your personal system, there are a lot of people looking for "whole home" threads. I put mine up at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1216865


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## cntp

Wow, thanks for the update - looks like an awesome system! Are you a Crestron dealer or CAIP?


Edit: Also - I think that CEC (or perhaps a modified version) would really help the A/V industry, since components could easily be switched out by consumers (or integrators) without changing code. I know that's a source of frustration for many consumers with Crestron (or any other brand) control system. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.


Not to get the thread off topic, but I'm going to have to look into those Kalediscape systems. I've heard a lot about them, but don't really know much. Any general comments on it?


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18018413
> 
> 
> Wow, thanks for the update - looks like an awesome system! Are you a Crestron dealer or CAIP?



My company, Digital Studio Werks , is a Crestron dealer. As far as me personally I need one more class, Programming for Certification and then the final exam in order to achieve Certified Crestron Programmer. I have the required programs written to take the class, Programming for Certification, I am just reviewing them so they come back without any "you need to fix this, that, etc". I HATE that.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18018413
> 
> 
> Edit: Also - I think that CEC (or perhaps a modified version) would really help the A/V industry, since components could easily be switched out by consumers (or integrators) without changing code. I know that's a source of frustration for many consumers with Crestron (or any other brand) control system. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.



As far as CEC goes, it does make programming a breeze. I do have to say this though. Without the DM system I would not be able to use CEC due to the fact that you have send the codes through HDMI. The coding is easy as it's just a serial join. But what the DM system does is it give you the HDMI input to send the Serial commands on and get them into the HDMI channel and at the same time sends the feedback back to a Serial output. Every DM input & output card and on the room controllers there is a HMDI serial input and output.


In order for CEC to take off there needs to be a way to allow the programmer to get the commands into the HDMI channel.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18018413
> 
> 
> Not to get the thread off topic, but I'm going to have to look into those Kalediscape systems. I've heard a lot about them, but don't really know much. Any general comments on it?



Besides being a Crestron dealer we are also a Kaleidescape dealer amongst many other brands. We are a full CI company. If interested hit me up and I can answer any questions you have. You can also view the " Kaleidescape Experience " video on our web site. If you are interested in a Kaleidescape system, I can definitely work something out for you, after all I am the owner of Digital Studio Werks


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thomasamiller* /forum/post/18012462
> 
> 
> Can you do a test when you get a minute? See what happens when you "listen to music from CD while watching Kalediscape on TV". In other words, mix the audio and video streams and see how DM handles it. I am really curious about this because I do it a lot.



Well I am watching a movie on kaleidescape and at the same time I am listening to Bebel Gilberto . Routed Audio and Video source independently of each other. No problems whatsoever.


Any questions feel free to ask.


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## Adidas4275

crazy cool setup.....


that is some $$ gear!


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## cntp

I'll have to watch those kaleidescape videos sometime. I'd probably love a system, however I'm sure it's way over my budget (which is close to $0 now, I'm about to order a new LCD







). I'm one of those poor college students.


I've looked at many of the Digital Media products from Simpl Windows (along with seeing a demo/presentation on it). Looking at how to program a system usually tells me more of what I want to know faster than reading documentation/brochures. So far I really like what I've seen. Only other thing I think would be useful is optional scalers on input/output cards.


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## anthem

Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well. Though haven't tried with switching a wireless USB key yet. . ..


Outside of that - the DM looks to be a great unit. No one else really has a commercial unit working like it and have no complaints about it (outside of its price point - which is absurd).


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## pchannan

James,


What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers? If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range? Seems like a pain to be using a cable connected to a hidden box behind my TV. Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?


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## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthem* /forum/post/18146052
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well. Though haven't tried with switching a wireless USB key yet. . .. .



I have tried it with both wireless (w/Dongle)and wired Keyboards and it works fine. I've installed this on systems that had multiple mac mini's and it worked pretty much perfectly.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anthem* /forum/post/18146052
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried the USB routing on the DM ? I think its absolutely cool that they've included USB input/outputs on the DM units. So, essentially you can put a keyboard in to a particular location and route that back to whatever source you've switched to. So essentially you can remote PC's as well.



The USB port on the DM-RMC-100(F), and all the ports for that matter, work flawlessly. I have the USB port on the HDMI from the DM 8x8 connected to my MacPro. At each DM-RMC-100-F I have a USB wireless dongle attached so I can use my MacPro at any location in the house.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18150631
> 
> 
> James,
> 
> What is the maximum range you are using your wii controllers?



The farthest I use it is about 40ft. and it worked without any issues at all. I use the Nyko wireless Wii bar and there are only 2 players at a time playing, my wife and I (we do not have any kids). I do not know if the number of players (Traffic) may have an effect on distance.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18150631
> 
> 
> If I wanted to centrally located my PS3, am I just dependent on the bluetooth distance? I see that there is a usb port on the DM unit, would I have to plug the PS3 controller into it or into an adapter then into it in order to use my PS3 when bluetooth is out of range?



I have not done a DM install with a PS3 as a source so I can not give you a definitive answer on that. Maybe I will get a PS3 and try it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18150631
> 
> 
> Any time frame on when you are going to post your schematics?



I have a VERY rough draft done that I am thinking of posting but I have not had time to really put together a detailed design plan. The rough draft I do have is more of a connection diagram that shows how all the sources (Inputs) are connected to the DM system and how all the Displays are feed (Output). Maybe I will clean it up over the next few days and post it by Sunday.


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## pchannan

thanks James, I know there is a burning question for you over at the c4forums website regarding the “Analog Sunset” and "January 1, 2011, software manufacturers will be able to insert something called an Image Constraint Token into any Blu-ray disc. This bit of digital information will turn the high-definition component video output OFF the player(s).”


People are concerned that their current component distribution will be negated to SD. It's one of the issues I'm watching in order to decide Crestron & DM vs C4.

http://www.c4forums.com/viewtopic.php?id=5063


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## pchannan

James,


are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?


Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.


----------



## anthem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18162053
> 
> 
> James,
> 
> 
> are you using Cresnet or another brand of 10Gb, Multimode, 50 Micron, SC/SC Fiber as you mentioned in your C4forums post?
> 
> 
> Do you have a computer network in your house? If so (or not), would you recomend running a separate Cat 5e/6 network for just computer stuff (file sharing, central computer backup, sharing internet from router) or just use the 10/100 ethernet you can get from your fibre run? I plan on running a central file server in my rack which will have dual intel gigabit ethernet ports which I believe will have to be run to the DM (if I went that route). I think I'll have to use one port for my home computer network and one port for the DM. I will be backing up my blu-rays on my desktop in my office and I'll have to transfer the files to the server and hence would like a gigabit backbone for this.



I think you are mistaking the network aspect and the hdmi matrix functions. The HD matrix doesn't feed your HD video via TCP/IP that you feed it. it takes HDMI signal and delivers it via cat cable or fiber. Now I believe it is most like tcp/ip encoded and delivered but that's encapsulated and hidden from you. It provisions each of the boxes as tcp ip boxes with ip addresses but its over it's own fiber/cat connections and NOT through a separate switch. In other words the matrix switch is acting as a switch for the end point devices behind the unit (if you deliver via cat/fiber - and not just hdmi out.


So, basically you are going to feed an hdmi signal from your players/servers to the matrix to feed out from there (not taking m2ts, ISO, mkv).


Now, in terms of network. I would say you should implement a private network for crestron stuff and another network for client related computer stuff. . Now, if you are fully in control of the client network as well, then you could conceivably put the two together - especially with VLANs if you are familiar with them. However vlans get you into enterprise stuff - especially if you want bdpu guard stuff and a few other things. And since a high-end cisco switch that does this runs into a couple grand to 10 grand, you might want to consider separate lan units.


----------



## phuge611

Do you have the serial commands for ON and Off for the Samsung LED TV ?


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phuge611* /forum/post/18211845
> 
> 
> Do you have the serial commands for ON and Off for the Samsung LED TV ?



You mean CEC codes as the Samsung LED TV does not have a serial (RS-232) port.


Before I post the codes keep in mind the following.

1) These are from the 1.3 HDMI specification

2) You need to download the 1.3 HDMI Specification for detailed instruction on implementing CEC commands.

3) I have only used these codes within a Crestron DM (Digital Media) environment. The reason I am saying this is it's the only system that I know of where you can actually manage the CEC channel directly within HDMI. This is important because without being able to manage the CEC channel you will more than likely get undesirable results. Ex. Shutting off the TV in one room will turn off the TV, DVD Player, Receiver, etc in another room.

4) I will not review, debug or help anyone with their code nor will I answer any questions anyone may have. You are on your own. Not to be mean but I really do not have the time.

5) Codes other than PON/POF I will not post as, again, I do not have the time. The only reason I am posting these codes because 1) I have had quite a few requests and 2) they are the most common commands needed/requested.

6) The code I am posting are the generic CEC codes that are specified in the HDMI 1.3 agreement. Besides the generic codes manufacturers can, and do, create their own CEC codes. You will have to check with each manufacturer for their specific CEC codes. I will not be posting any manufacturer codes.
The CEC POF & PON codes are as follows.

Power Off (POF) - 0x6C

Power On (PON) - 0x6D


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18212967
> 
> 
> The CEC POF & PON codes are as follows.
> 
> Power Off (POF) - 0x6C
> 
> Power On (PON) - 0x6D



In my previous post I gave the HDMI 1.3 CEC codes for PON & POF (Power On & Power Off respectively) what I failed to mention is how to use those codes. Just using 0x6C\

or 0x6D\

will not work. You need to send CEC commands (Messages) in what are called "CEC Frames."


I will explain the components of a CEC Frame but in order to construct a working CEC Frame you will need to down load the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 Specification from HDMI, LLC . This will give you all the Codes, Values, Descriptions & Parameters. In the examples below I am using the HDMI 1.3 Specification.

*CEC Frame*

A CEC message is conveyed over the control signal line in a single frame; a frame is a self-contained unit consisting of a start bit followed by a number of data bits.


I will give a very general description of a CEC frame and describe each section but before I do be aware that each HDMI device has a address field (Logical Address) and data is sent via these Logical Address's


A CEC Framed is comprised of the following;

1) Start Bit

2) Header Block

3) Data Block 1 (Which is called the OPCode Block)

4) Data Block 2 (Which is called the OPerand Blocks and is optional depending on the OPCode in 3 above)


Below is table that describes the CEC Frame components.








Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification

*CEC Frame Components.*
*1) The Start Bit*

The Start Bit is required to initiate a CEC Frame. For more on the Start Bit read the HDMI 1.3 Specification.

*2) Header Block*

The header block consists of the source (initiator) logical address field, the destination logical address field, the end of message bit (EOM) and the acknowledge bit (ACK). See image below.









Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification


In the example above the source (initiator) address and the destination address would be different. The initiator logical address field is used to identify the initiator of the current frame. The logical address of the initiator is written in this field and the field consists of bits one to four of the header block.


The destination logical address field is used to identify the destination of the CEC frame. The logical address of the destination is written in this field. The field consists of bits five to eight of the header block.


A message with the EOM bit set in the Header Block can be used to ping' other devices, to ascertain if they are powered on. This is the .

*3) Data Block*

All CEC Frames will have at least "*Data Block 1*" and depending on the CEC message may have "*Data Block 2*."

All Data Blocks (1& 2) are ten bits long and have the same basic structure as shown below.









Source: HDMI 1.3 Specification

*EOM*

If you are sending a CEC message in "*Data Block 1*" that does not require an Operand Block "*Data Block 2*" then you would put a 1 in the *"EOM"* field which specifies that no more data blocks are to follow and the message is complete.


If you are sending a CEC message in "*Data Block 1*" that does require an Operand Block "*Data Block 2*" then you would put a 0 in the *"EOM"* field which specifies one or more data blocks are to follow.

*ACK*

The ACK bit is used by follower(s) (destination) to acknowledge the data or header block sent by the initiator (sender). For more on the ACK bit read the HDMI 1.3 Specification.


The above is just an intro. on how to construct a CEC Frame in order to send a CEC Command (Messaage). Again, in order to format a proper and working CEC Frame you will need to down load the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 Specification from HDMI, LLC . The HDMI Specification Guide will give you all the Codes, Values, Descriptions & Parameters needed to construct a proper CEC Frame.


----------



## Guliver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18206163
> 
> 
> I purchase most (almost all) of my fiber from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop .



Would you mind telling me which fiber optic model did you buy from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop that is compatible with Crestron DM Fiber Input Card w/Down-mixing for DigitalMedia™ Switchers ???


I'm planning to buy from them 8 x 300 feet lengths pre-terminated fiber Optic cable.


50 /125 Multi-mode or 50 /125 Single mode ?


Simplex or Duplex ?


How easy it is to terminate the cable?


Thanks for your help.


Guliver


----------



## cntp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guliver* /forum/post/18406920
> 
> 
> Would you mind telling me which fiber optic model did you buy from The Fiber Optic Cable Shop that is compatible with Crestron DM Fiber Input Card w/Down-mixing for DigitalMedia™ Switchers ???



I'm not GoGo, but I can answer some of your questions. Any decent quality 50/125 fiber with SC connectors will work with DM gear.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guliver* /forum/post/18406920
> 
> 
> 50 /125 Multi-mode or 50 /125 Single mode ?



All 50/125 fiber is multimode. Singlemode fiber is like 9/125.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guliver* /forum/post/18406920
> 
> 
> Simplex or Duplex ?



Duplex is required. If you're able to easily re-pull the fiber (conduit), then it may be ok. If you're installing the fiber more perminantly, you'll want at least 2 pairs, in case one breaks (or for future expansion). I'd try to do at least 8 strand.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guliver* /forum/post/18406920
> 
> 
> How easy it is to terminate the cable?



It depends on the terminations you use, but it takes a little work. The biggest thing is the tools required cost several thousand dollars. If you want a tester, that's another thousand dollars.



I'll also add - if you're planning to DIY a Crestron system, you should really re-evaluate your plans. As has been discussed many times, it's not a system for DIYers, you need to contact a dealer.


----------



## Guliver

James, How did you route Audio and Video independently? Want to do the same thing.


Problem is that Audio on the KAleidescape is mixed on the HDMI ou also carry Video !!! You maybe output the audio from the two sources in coax digital audio to do that. Only drawback is that you loose the DTS HD or Dolby HD sound only available from the HDMI audio source ...


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Guliver* /forum/post/18485651
> 
> 
> James, How did you route Audio and Video independently? Want to do the same thing.
> 
> 
> Problem is that Audio on the KAleidescape is mixed on the HDMI ou also carry Video !!! You maybe output the audio from the two sources in coax digital audio to do that. Only drawback is that you loose the DTS HD or Dolby HD sound only available from the HDMI audio source ...



Kaleidescape does not support DTS HD or Dolby HD as of yet. It will when the Blue Laser Player is released.


I am using the DMCO-13 see image below












The fiber outs are going to the DM-RMC-100-F for video & data only. As far as routing audio goes, all audio is routed from the HDMI outs on the DMCO-13 to a receiver.


Below is a drawing of how I am routing video & audio (using HDMI) out from the DMCO-13's. Note: All the receivers are centralized in a rack. In the drawing below I am showing them in the rooms just for wiring layout purposes only.


----------



## cntp

Also, an FYI, the DM8x8 (and I assume all DM matricies) will do independent audio-video routing. I can't say for sure that it works, but it's possible in the programming. For more info, give Crestron a call.


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18490963
> 
> 
> Also, an FYI, the DM8x8 (and I assume all DM matricies) will do independent audio-video routing. I can't say for sure that it works, but it's possible in the programming. For more info, give Crestron a call.



The entire DM line (8x8, 16x16 & 32x32, (64x64 & 128x128 coming soon to a trade show near you







)) is designed to switch Audio, Video & USB independently of each other.


I currently use the "Living Room" Kaleidescape player as the whole house audio player. I have one button on all the TP's through out the house called, "Whole House Audio", that does the following.

1) Starts up all receivers and set's the volume level

2) Switches the DM 8x8's source to the "Living Room Player".

3) Switches the DM 8x8's output to all 4 receivers

4) Brings up the Kaleidescape Music interface on the Touch Panels.


From any of the touch panels in the house I can select any album, play list, or song from Kaleidescape as usual. I can also control the volume of each room independently (which I prefer) or together as one (which my wife prefers).


----------



## CJO

Very nice setup!


CJ


----------



## pchannan

James,


So this means that your receivers aren't centrally stacked? If I wanted everything centrally stacked, does it make the distribution much more complicated?


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18491527
> 
> 
> James,
> 
> 
> So this means that your receivers aren't centrally stacked? If I wanted everything centrally stacked, does it make the distribution much more complicated?



All equipment is centrally located in a rack. In a previous post I stated ". . . all equipment is centrally located in a rack so the HDMI runs to the receiver are 3ft. at the longest." Actually the longest is 4ft.

HERE are a couple of screen shots of my rack. The receivers, which are not in the pictures, are below the Kaleidescape players.


----------



## pchannan

Sorry, from the wiring diagram, it seemed like the receivers were located in separate rooms. You're using HDMI to route only audio to the receivers in the rack which then must connect to speaker wire run directly to each receiver. You're using fibre to route video and ethernet.


I understand now, I think


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18496472
> 
> 
> Sorry, from the wiring diagram, it seemed like the receivers were located in separate rooms.



I should have pointed out the drawing is just to show the connections to and from the DM 8x8 and not a true equipment layout.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/18496472
> 
> 
> You're using HDMI to route only audio to the receivers in the rack which then must connect to speaker wire run directly to each receiver. You're using fibre to route video and ethernet.



Correct. That's exactly how I am doing it.


Besides carrying video & ethernet to each display location, the fiber is also carrying audio (which I am not using since I have all audio going through HDMI and into the receivers), RS-232, IR, USB, Relay and Digital/Contact.


----------



## cntp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18491104
> 
> 
> The entire DM line (8x8, 16x16 & 32x32, (64x64 & 128x128 coming soon to a trade show near you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )) is designed to switch Audio, Video & USB independently of each other.



I knew a 64x64 was comming out soon, didn't know there was a 128x128 on the way (although it makes sense).


Just imagine the backplane on that bad boy. At 10 GBps + per port.....that's a LOT of bandwidth.


----------



## HaLo6

omg this is digital porn... im such a nerd... drool...


----------



## GoGo Delicious

Now that I have finished my DM 8x8 project I am planning on upgrading to the DM 32x32 , adding the DVPHD w/ Guide Bar , a V-15 Touch Panel and a Panasonic Plasma with a TP overlay.


You may ask yourself "Why is he doing this"?


Well one we use our home as a show room, 2 we work mostly with Architects and Interior designers and I want to show them what we can do no matter if it's residential design, boardroom, sports bar or digital signage and 3 my father-in-law is a huge sports fan so I figured he will have a blast coming over and being able to watch/view up to 8 NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL/etc games at once.


When will I start on this project? For starters, I am waiting for the DM 32x32 to be released. Crestron says it will be released in April, but I am thinking maybe May or June. Second, we have a large project starting in June that will take us to September and in September we have CEDIA. So I am looking at the end of September beginning of October to start.


Why a DM 32x32 instead of a DM 16x16?

A DM 16x16 requires the IO Cards to be factory installed by Crestron whereas the DM 32x32 are field configurable. I will be transferring all the IO cards in my current 8x8 to the new DM 32x32 and I will be adding quite a few more.


To get an idea of what I want to accomplish, you can view video of how a Crestron DVPHD w/ Guide Bar works and what it can display.


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HaLo6* /forum/post/18529782
> 
> 
> omg this is digital porn... im such a nerd... drool...



Thats funny


----------



## cntp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18529887
> 
> 
> Now that I have finished my DM 8x8 project I am planning on upgrading to the DM 32x32 , adding the DVPHD w/ Guide Bar , a V-15 Touch Panel and a Panasonic Plasma with a TP overlay.
> 
> 
> You may ask yourself "Why is he doing this"?
> 
> 
> Well one we use our home as a show room, 2 we work mostly with Architects and Interior designers and I want to show them what we can do no matter if it's residential design, boardroom, sports bar or digital signage and 3 my father-in-law is a huge sports fan so I figured he will have a blast coming over and being able to watch/view up to 8 NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL/etc games at once.
> 
> 
> When will I start on this project? For starters, I am waiting for the DM 32x32 to be released. Crestron says it will be released in April, but I am thinking maybe May or June. Second, we have a large project starting in June that will take us to September and in September we have CEDIA. So I am looking at the end of September beginning of October to start.
> 
> 
> Why a DM 32x32 instead of a DM 16x16?
> 
> A DM 16x16 requires the IO Cards to be factory installed by Crestron whereas the DM 32x32 are field configurable. I will be transferring all the IO cards in my current 8x8 to the new DM 32x32 and I will be adding quite a few more.
> 
> 
> To get an idea of what I want to accomplish, you can view video of how a Crestron DVPHD w/ Guide Bar works and what it can display.
> 
> 
> FYI - If any one is interested I will be selling the DM 8x8 (sans the IO cards) once the project is complete.



Now THAT will be some serious A/V porn! I hope you post pictures and diagrams when you're done.


As a side note: how are you planning to connect the DVPHD to the matrix? Are you just going to have 4 outs of the DM to the DVPHD, then the output of the DVPHD back into the DM to route it to different displays? We're looking into ways of tying a DVPHD and a DM-8x8 in a two-projector setup.


Also - how are you planning to use the guidebar functionality in a home-type setup? I can see using a DVPHD in home, but I'm not sure what you'd do with the GB feature.


-Drew


And, I'll buy the 8x8 if you're willing to sell it stupid cheap







- but I will give it a good home!


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18529964
> 
> 
> Now THAT will be some serious A/V porn! I hope you post pictures and diagrams when you're done.



I will. I will probably start a new thread.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18529964
> 
> 
> As a side note: how are you planning to connect the DVPHD to the matrix? Are you just going to have 4 outs of the DM to the DVPHD, then the output of the DVPHD back into the DM to route it to different displays?



Thats exactly how I am going to do it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18529964
> 
> 
> Also - how are you planning to use the guidebar functionality in a home-type setup? I can see using a DVPHD in home, but I'm not sure what you'd do with the GB feature.



The GB will be used primarily for commercial client demos to show them what can be done in the boardroom, classroom, court room, etc.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cntp* /forum/post/18529964
> 
> 
> And, I'll buy the 8x8 if you're willing to sell it stupid cheap
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - but I will give it a good home!



I have already received a PM regarding the DM 8x8. Once I am ready to sell it I will let all those who express interest know and at what price.


----------



## cntp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18529983
> 
> 
> The GB will be used primarily for commercial client demos to show them what cam be done in the boardroom, classroom, court room, etc.



Ah, I see. We're using the DVPHD-GB with a cheap 1080p panel and a 1280x800 projector. Having a few issues with the Crestron gear, but it works well, and we have tons of touch panel real estate.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18529983
> 
> 
> I have already received a PM regarding the DM 8x8. Once I am ready to sell it I will let all those who express interest know and at what price.



You can go ahead and take me off the list - I'm a poor colege kid


----------



## GoGo Delicious

As I mentioned in a previous post, which you can read HERE , I will be upgrading my DM 8x8 to a DM 32x32 and adding a few other goodies.










For those of you intrested here is a pic, front and back, of what the DM 32x32 looks like.











Just as in my original DM 8x8 install, the entire system will be fiber based.


More to come . . . .


----------



## stefuel

I guess it doesn't run to hot. It only needs 8 cooling fans.


----------



## cntp

Hey, the thing's only got a 320Gbps+ backplane....


----------



## multimedes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18487368
> 
> 
> Kaleidescape does not support DTS HD or Dolby HD as of yet. It will when the Blue Laser Player is released.
> 
> 
> I am using the DMCO-13 see image below
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fiber outs are going to the DM-RMC-100-F for video & data only. As far as routing audio goes, all audio is routed from the HDMI outs on the DMCO-13 to a receiver.
> 
> 
> Below is a drawing of how I am routing video & audio (using HDMI) out from the DMCO-13's. Note: All the receivers are centralized in a rack. In the drawing below I am showing them in the rooms just for wiring layout purposes only.



James,

Great thread and I am convinced so far by the Crestron DM capabilities.

I have a requirement to build a fiber network across four locations which are from 200 to 600ft apart. I will be upgrading my complete system, which will include the 4 x Kaleidescape players to Bluray currently running over a CAT6 LAN network.

Requirements also include support of 2x Sat Rx, PS3, Pioneer Bluray, Mark Levinson DVD, Pioneer HD Laser Disc, JVC HD Tape, Toshiba HD player, DCI projector, 2 x 60" Pioneer Kuro's, Pansonic 50", new 46' Samsung and 3 x Macs.

At present all this is controlled by an AMX control system and I certainly do not want to rewrite 10's of thousands of lines of code.

So the big question how do you control the input selection from a touch panel so that by just selecting the device you automatically set the DM to pre programed settings.

I note there is no RS232 i/p, so can one get access to the command structure through the LAN port, does the DM support a Telnet connection, or to achieve automatic control will I need other Crestron equipment?

If it has a) an IP address and b) a port which it listens on and you can connect to via TCP/IP, and c) a published API protocol you can use when a connection is established to send and receive commands, then the AMX could control it. The question is, can you control the unit by establishing a telnet session to the IP address using the provided port number?, and when you have, do you have a list of commands you can then use to send and receive instructions and acknowledgements?

Could you also direct me to a list price for the DM chassis and modules.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Des


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18646484
> 
> 
> James,
> 
> Great thread



Thanks.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18646484
> 
> 
> At present all this is controlled by an AMX control system and I certainly do not want to rewrite 10's of thousands of lines of code.So the big question how do you control the input selection from a touch panel so that by just selecting the device you automatically set the DM to pre programed settings.
> 
> I note there is no RS232 i/p, so can one get access to the command structure through the LAN port, does the DM support a Telenet connection, or to achieve automatic control will I need other Crestron equipment?



To achieve "automatic control", the entire DM system has to be controlled by a Crestron processor (you can manually switch sources/displays through the front panel) and is controlled via IP using the LAN port. If you want to use a DM switcher, 8x8, 16x16 or 32x32, at minimum you will need to install a Crestron controller , such as an CP2e , AV2 or a Pro2 (which is what I am using), to name a few. For TP control you can use an iPhone or iPad.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18646484
> 
> 
> Could you also direct me to a list price for the DM chassis and modules.



As far as list pricing goes you can contact us or any other Crestron dealer as there are many, many options in configuring a DM system. You can go to the Crestron DigitalMedia section of Crestrons website and look at what Switchers, 8x8 or 32x32, you may need, what Input Cards you will need/want and what type of Output Cards you will want (all fiber, Fiber/HDMI mix, Fiber/Crestron DM mix, etc).


Hope that helps.


----------



## multimedes




> Quote:
> As far as list pricing goes you can contact us or any other Crestron dealer as there are many, many options in configuring a DM system. You can go to the Crestron DigitalMedia section of Crestrons website and look at what Switchers, 8x8 or 32x32, you may need, what Input Cards you will need/want and what type of Output Cards you will want (all fiber, Fiber/HDMI mix, Fiber/Crestron DM mix, etc).



Thanks James,

I have looked at the configuration and come up with the following:


DM Switcher Configuration

Created: 5/17/2010

Qty Model (Switcher)

1 DM-MD16X16 - 16x16 DigitalMedia Switcher

Qty Model (Input Cards)

8 DMC-HD-DSP - HDMI Input Card w/Down-mixing for DM Switchers

3 DMC-VID-BNC - BNC Analog Video Input Card for DM Switchers

1 DMC-VID4 - Quad Video Input Card for DM Switchers

1 DVI/RGB Input Card for DigitalMedia Switchers

Qty Model (Output Cards)

1 DMCO-1100 - Output Card for DM-MD16X16, provides 4 DM Fiber Outputs

Qty Model (Receivers)

4 DM-RMC-100-F - DigitalMedia Fiber Receiver & Room Controller

Qty Model (Cables, Repeaters, and Connectors)

8 CBL-HD-6 - Crestron® Certified HDMI Interface Cable, 6 ft

1 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-3 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,

Plenum, 3 ft

2 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-6 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,

Plenum, 6 ft

1 CRESFIBER-DUAL-SC-P-12 - CresFiber® Duplex Fiber Optic Cable Assembly, 50/125, SC,

Plenum, 12 ft

4 CBL-RCA-6 - Crestron® Certified RCA Composite Video and S/PDIF Audio Interface Cable, 6 ft


I guess we need a Pro2 with and an Ethernet card for interaction with the AMX.


If you could give me a ball park figure for this, don't spend too much time, I would appreciate it.

Not sure but maybe I should be requesting this via PM, but I am sure other people would be interested in outline pricing.

Thanks

Des


----------



## petemcn

Looking quickly you appear to be at around $30k for the hardware you mention.


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## multimedes

Thanks, that is about $10k more than I was hoping for.

How much does the Pro2 contribute to the price and what would be the difference in cost for an 8x8 chassis as opposed to a 16x16?

What are the expensive items?

Thanks for your help.

Des


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18648397
> 
> 
> Not sure but maybe I should be requesting this via PM, but I am sure other people would be interested in outline pricing.



I sent you a PM.


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## petemcn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18649539
> 
> 
> Thanks, that is about $10k more than I was hoping for.
> 
> How much does the Pro2 contribute to the price and what would be the difference in cost for an 8x8 chassis as opposed to a 16x16?
> 
> What are the expensive items?
> 
> Thanks for your help.
> 
> Des



32x32 = $17.2k

16x16 = $8.6k

8x8 = $4.3k


Pro2 = $3.6k

AV2 = $2.7k

CP2e = $1.8k


These are all list prices. Hope it helps.


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## multimedes

Thanks, that does help but I do not see the point of just doubling the price for 32x32 over 16x16 and 16x16 over 8x8, does not give any one the incentive to invest in the larger box if you don't need it from day 1.

Most marketeer's would have encourage one to buy bigger box's to get you to buy more interface modules (with even higher margins) sooner rather than later.


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## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *multimedes* /forum/post/18659752
> 
> 
> Thanks, that does help but I do not see the point of just doubling the price for 32x32 over 16x16 and 16x16 over 8x8, does not give any one the incentive to invest in the larger box if you don't need it from day 1.
> 
> Most marketeer's would have encourage one to buy bigger box's to get you to buy more interface modules (with even higher margins) sooner rather than later.



Um, how do you expect to get 32 source inputs by stacking two 16x16 units? Or 16 inputs from two 8x8 chassis? The backplane bandwidth of the 32x32 DM switcher is twice that of stacked 16x16 chassis, so you're effectively getting double the capability for the same money. There's your incentive.


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## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *petemcn* /forum/post/18653502
> 
> 
> 32x32 = $17.2k
> 
> 16x16 = $8.6k
> 
> 8x8 = $4.3k
> 
> 
> Pro2 = $3.6k
> 
> AV2 = $2.7k
> 
> CP2e = $1.8k
> 
> 
> These are all list prices. Hope it helps.



Why does he need any of those processors just to talk to the DM why not just a QM-RMC?


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## cntp

I wouldn't trust a QM-RMC for that duty. Just me. Plus, it doesn't have cresnet at all, only has 2 serial ports, one IR port, and 4 inputs.


----------



## multimedes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SweetSpot* /forum/post/18660280
> 
> 
> Um, how do you expect to get 32 source inputs by stacking two 16x16 units? Or 16 inputs from two 8x8 chassis? The backplane bandwidth of the 32x32 DM switcher is twice that of stacked 16x16 chassis, so you're effectively getting double the capability for the same money. There's your incentive.



No you cant expand the inputs but if outputs are your limiting factor then it is OK.

Connection to a second switcher allows expanded distribution of the input sources connected to the primary switcher.

Connection to the second switcher consists of connecting the HDMI output of the input cards in the primary switcher to HDMI

input cards installed on the second switcher.

I agree if you have many simultaneous high bandwidth input requirements (1080p 60Hz with maybe deep color requirements) then it is not the way to go.


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## pchannan

Hey James,


With Crestron coming out with the DM HD-BaseT video cat 5 video solution, is there any point in going with fiber anymore?


Thanks


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pchannan* /forum/post/19923379
> 
> 
> Hey James,
> 
> 
> With Crestron coming out with the DM HD-BaseT video cat 5 video solution, is there any point in going with fiber anymore?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Below is just my opinion on how I see copper (Cat5/6) playing out in the future. As in the words of the GREAT Johnny (John) Lydon "I may be wrong, I maybe right".


Also, ignore spelling and grammer. I am in a rush and did not proof read it.


So now . . . .


Are you referring to the 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable distribution?


If so, it's not based on HD-BaseT, 8G is Crestron own proprietary development. At DM Engineering class we were told that Crestron is an "Adopter" member but does not have any plans in implementing the spec. in their DM system.


As stated by the HD-BaseT alliance at this years CES, HDBaseT hopes to see native adoption in consumer tech products within a year to 18 months. So it will be some time before we see it in the consumer channel.


Now, back to your original question " . . . is there any point in going with fiber anymore?" as opposed to the 8G single CAT solution? My answer is yes for a few of reasons.


1) The 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable solution is limited to 330ft.


2) The 8G (DM 8G STP) single CAT (DM-CBL-8G) cable solution does not allow the use of DM repeaters so you can not extend distance. Your max'd out at 330ft.


3) The current state of copper solutions such as Baluns, HDMI over IP, etc are just life support for a cable that was not designed to carry the requirements of HDMI spec. which is Uncompressed Video (1080P, 3D, Deep Color, etc), Uncompressed Audio (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Res, DTS-HD Master Audio, 8ch PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, DTS, DTS-ES, DTS 96/24, 2ch PCM), CEC, EDI, etc.


4) The other issue with copper is distance. Baluns can go what? about 150' maybe. With HDMI over IP distance varies with product used but you can get 300-400ft on a single cable.


5) Currently the highest resolution available is 1080p. But as we know 2k & 4k is coming and will be main stream as 1080p is today within 5 to 10 years. I hear a lot of people saying well there is no 2k/4k content so it wont happen anytime soon. But just like 1080p displays when they first came out people were saying "there is no 1080p content" the highest at the time was 720p or 1080i. Now you have Blu-Ray, VDU HDX, and Other HD Streaming sources. Broadcast TV may never hit 1080p, 2k or 4k but as internet data rates get faster in the future, 50Mbps, 100Mbps even up to 1Gbps, we will be able to access more and more 1080p and even 2k & 4k content.


This leads back to Copper, will copper handle 2k or 4k? At this point, when 4k is as popular as 1080p is today, High Speed Wireless, WiDi, etc will have evolved and have become readily available and thus, I believe, will be a substitute for copper.


I see copper (CAT5/6) being irrelevant, as an HD AV distribution conduit, in 5 to 10 years.


The fiber system I have in our home carries the following to each room, Great Room, Media Room, Den, Kitchen, Master Bed/Bath and Guest Bath.

1) Uncompressed HDMI 1.4 video with support for Deep Color & 3D

2) Uncompressed Multi-channel Audio (Dolby® TrueHD 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby Digital AC3 5.1, Dolby Digital EX 5.1, DTS-HD Master Audio™ 7.1, DTS-HD High Res 7.1, DTS 5.1, DTS-ES Matrix 5.1, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS 96/24 5.1, up to 8ch PCM)

3) Ethernet (10/100)

4) RS-232 (1 Port)

5) IR (2 Ports)

6) USB (1 Port)

7) Relay (2 Ports)

8) Digital/Contact

9) Ability to embed CEC commands directly within the HDMI Channel and send to any display

10) IP Phone System - Not only that I am able to run 1-9 above, but also our entire phone system over the same fiber cable that the DM system uses.


I understand why the AV industry, especially CI's, are trying to extend the use of CAT cabling but I feel the time has come to move to fiber. There are a few companies, besides Crestron, offering a fiber solution and in the years to come you will see more and more.


Again, as stated by the HD-BaseT alliance at this years CES, HDBaseT hopes to see native adoption in consumer tech products within a year to 18 months. So it will be some time before we see it in the consumer channel.


Remember this, Verizon has taken fiber directly to the home. Now it's only a matter of time before fiber is IN the home.


My 2 cents.


----------



## djsmallz




GoGo Delicious said:


> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> hey buddy
> 
> sent you a PM last year never had a reply, guess you been too busy, just resent it now please check it out and let me know.. awaiting your wisdom !
> 
> 
> Cheers


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djsmallz* /forum/post/19929759
> 
> 
> hey buddy
> 
> sent you a PM last year never had a reply, guess you been too busy, just resent it now please check it out and let me know.. awaiting your wisdom !
> 
> 
> Cheers



I apologize about that. I just set you a PM


----------



## Techphil

Can you give more detaill how you pass your phone system through the fiber from the dm.


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Techphil* /forum/post/19959858
> 
> 
> Can you give more detaill how you pass your phone system through the fiber from the dm.



It's not difficult to do, IF you have a good networking foundation.

With that said, I will not go into details on how I do it. Im a business and do not give away something that gives us a competitive advantage.


----------



## orrinc

James,


The HDMI Specifications list all of the standard CEC codes. I keep hearing about proprietary implementations of CES by various manufacturers, but no specific data.


Is there any resource for how different manufacturers are currently implementing (or not implementing) the CEC code standards?


Thanks!


Orrin


----------



## GoGo Delicious

Quote:

Originally Posted by *orrinc* 
The HDMI Specifications list all of the standard CEC codes. I keep hearing about proprietary implementations of CES by various manufacturers, but no specific data.


Is there any resource for how different manufacturers are currently implementing (or not implementing) the CEC code standards?
I do not know of any other source other than getting the proprietary CEC codes form directly from the manuf. and this is not as easy as it sounds. When you call a manuf. 99% of the time no one knows what you are asking for and you have to jump through hoops to find a person who knows what "CEC Codes" mean.


Even if you use the manuf. own terminology, for example Samsung calls HDMI CEC control "Anynet+", you have to ask Samsung for the "Anynet+" codes and even then they may not know what you are talking about.


----------



## graeme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/18018876
> 
> 
> As far as CEC goes, it does make programming a breeze. I do have to say this though. Without the DM system I would not be able to use CEC due to the fact that you have send the codes through HDMI. The coding is easy as it's just a serial join. But what the DM system does is it give you the HDMI input to send the Serial commands on and get them into the HDMI channel and at the same time sends the feedback back to a Serial output. Every DM input & output card and on the room controllers there is a HMDI serial input and output.
> 
> 
> In order for CEC to take off there needs to be a way to allow the programmer to get the commands into the HDMI channel.



Hi James,


Following your CEC adventures with interest. Can you post a link to the document with the CEC codes for various devices, or give us the title so we can get it from HDMI, LLC.


Thanks....


Graeme


----------



## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *graeme* /forum/post/20319758
> 
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> Following your CEC adventures with interest. Can you post a link to the document with the CEC codes for various devices, or give us the title so we can get it from HDMI, LLC.
> 
> 
> Thanks....
> 
> 
> Graeme



The title is as follows,

"High-Definition Multimedia Interface Specification Version X.X"


Where X.X is the HDMI version you are are requesting, for example 1.3a, 1.4, etc.


Note that the document above gives you the standard CEC codes.


----------



## graeme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoGo Delicious* /forum/post/20320760
> 
> 
> The title is as follows,
> 
> "High-Definition Multimedia Interface Specification Version X.X"
> 
> 
> Where X.X is the HDMI version you are are requesting, for example 1.3a, 1.4, etc.
> 
> 
> Note that the document above gives you the standard CEC codes.



Got it, thanks....


Graeme


----------



## Harinder

Hi


Going with 8x8 after seeing what has been achieved. One thing I was trying to work out was how the switcher handled these CEC codes where the output is straight hdmi I.e. No room controller. Can this be done?


The other question was around 2 pioneer items. In the uk the amp is the sc-lx83 and in the US I think it is the sc-37. The bluray player is bdp-lx91. The blu ray sends one hdmi to amp for audio and another to display for video. How would the switcher handle that?


I guess the CEC side would extend to the amp and blu ray too  would seem silly to integrate via rs232 for controlling these 2 items.


----------



## GoGo Delicious

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Harinder* 
The other question was around 2 pioneer items. In the uk the amp is the sc-lx83 and in the US I think it is the sc-37. The bluray player is bdp-lx91. The blu ray sends one hdmi to amp for audio and another to display for video. How would the switcher handle that?
One way of doing it is to use one HDMI cable coming from the Blu-Ray player carrying both Audio & Video to the Dm 8x8. Depending on the type of DM cable you use, copper or fiber, you will install a DMCO card that has an output to DM-RMC and an HDMI output.


For example the DMCO-44 has 4 fiber outputs and an additional 2 HDMI outputs on output 1 & 2 along with the fiber outputs. So, on output 1 you would run the fiber output to the DM-RMC and the HDMI output to your receiver. In DM Tools, which is in ToolBox, You would setup the DM 8x8 so the HDMI output is sending audio only.


Another way of doing it is, you can also just send the video to the DM 8x8, via HDMI and the audio to your receiver via HDMI, as you are doing now. When you select "Watch Blu-Ray" the DM 8x8 will switch to the Blu-Ray player and the receiver will switch to the Input that you have assigned to the Blu-Ray audio.


There are many other ways of doing it. These are just 2 examples.


Hope that helps.


----------



## AVBKK

Hi All,


I found this thread looking for more info on the DM series products and learned alot from GoGo Delicious comments and replies to all the questions. I'm curious about anyone else experiences with DM switchers, room controllers, fiber or CAT based. Any horror stories?


Im located in Bangkok, Thailand and have a client that requires HD distribution from a centralized server(kaleidescape + shared iTunes library) to 44 points in a very large residential family compound. I have been doing research for a days now and still come back to the DM series. I have some colleagues in Australia who have offered that the DM will "just fall down", but I find that hard to believe, considering how many installs I have seen in Thailand using Crestron; hotels and boardrooms mainly. I know it is a vague question but just want to do my due diligence before I convince my client to invest in some serious gear.


Hope this thread isnt dead, but will post a new thread as well. Thanks!!


----------



## DaveChester

Strange that your Australian colleagues are negative towards DM. Our experience has always been incredibly positive - it just does what you want and expect.

Not heard any negative rumblings from other UK based Crestron dealers either.


Go for it - you won't have problems.


----------



## AVBKK

"Strange that your Australian colleagues are negative towards DM. Our experience has always been incredibly positive - it just does what you want and expect.

Not heard any negative rumblings from other UK based Crestron dealers either.


Go for it - you won't have problems. "


Thanks for your comments. Not sure what my colleagues were on about anymore. General consensus seems to be that no major issues, some headaches during commissioning, but even those seem limited to the very first gear released in the DM series, and when were talking about output to 32 displays, there are always going to be a few issues.


Everyones comments are greatly appreciated.


----------



## ralphazzi


good day,

 

i am working on a DM 8x8 with 6 sources connected to DMC-HD of which :

 

1- receiver srt 4930 L

2- Denon AVR 2113

3- Denon DBT 1713UD

 

i am trying to use CEC control but till now could not be able to find the right CEC codes .

 

i need your help guys.


----------



## ralphazzi


i have the same scenario and i am looking for the CEC codes in order to control :

 

1- AVR-2113

2- DBT1731UD

3- Samsung display 

4- Sony display 

 

can you please port some photos or documents showing the way you did it.


----------



## jfinneru

Bump


----------

