# AWOL LTV-3500 Impressions



## mcollin6

Anyone heard anything about this new UST that is supposed to be coming out in the next couple of weeks?

The specs for the 3500 lumen one look perfect for my application. Thoughts?









UST PROJECTORS







awolvision.com


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## ProjectionHead

I’ve actually got a sample unit from them and had a little time to play with it last week. I’ve got a meeting with them today to go over some details and will provide some insight into it here shortly.


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve actually got a sample unit from them and had a little time to play with it last week. I’ve got a meeting with them today to go over some details and will provide some insight into it here shortly.


Very interested in hearing your opinion. I haven’t been able to find if they are supported by an established manufacturer, or if they are going it alone. They seem like they are based in the US, but it’s hard to be sure.

I have seen one video on their Facebook page showing a working model in strong ambient light, and it looked very nice.


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve actually got a sample unit from them and had a little time to play with it last week. I’ve got a meeting with them today to go over some details and will provide some insight into it here shortly.


Brian, 

As a side bar conversation, many of these new USTs are coming out with images 130”-150” with brightness that would support those sizes. Problem is that 95% of the UST ALR screens out there only go up to 120”-123”. Scouring the web for larger screens, I have found a few places from China that use a “T-Prism” material engineered out of Germany for UST ALR screens up to 150” With a gain of 0.85. 

A UST like this would be perfect with a >130” ALR screen. Have you heard anything from manufacturers about increasing screen sizes for the UST ALR marketplace?

Thanks much!


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Brian,
> 
> As a side bar conversation, many of these new USTs are coming out with images 130”-150” with brightness that would support those sizes. Problem is that 95% of the UST ALR screens out there only go up to 120”-123”. Scouring the web for larger screens, I have found a few places from China that use a “T-Prism” material engineered out of Germany for UST ALR screens up to 150” With a gain of 0.85.
> 
> A UST like this would be perfect with a >130” ALR screen. Have you heard anything from manufacturers about increasing screen sizes for the UST ALR marketplace?
> 
> Thanks much!


You won’t find a lenticular surface above the 120”, but we are testing other types of surfaces now for an upcoming brand that supports up to the 150” size.
It doesn’t perform as well as the lenticular and the “grid” structure doesn’t seem to resolve as sharp of an image as you get from a low gain textureless surfaces like a Stewart Greymatte.
Please DM me any info you found on the German surface producer and that may be one I am not yet familiar with and would like to contact them for info.


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Very interested in hearing your opinion. I haven’t been able to find if they are supported by an established manufacturer, or if they are going it alone. They seem like they are based in the US, but it’s hard to be sure.
> 
> I have seen one video on their Facebook page showing a working model in strong ambient light, and it looked very nice.


I can’t really divulge too much info yet on their unit, that is up to them on what to share. I have another meeting with them today about the roll out and go to market so it is possible I will be allowed to share some more info very shortly.


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## rooterha

Company is registered to:
ZHENHAI ZHAO
2450 NW 36 ST, UNIT A-15
POMPANO BEACH, FL 33073

They appear to also own this company:








Safe Space Scan


Infrared temperature face scan for businesses.




safespacescan.com


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## Brajesh

Seems like a flood of UST's lately.


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## ProjectionHead

I've got a call with their engineers in the morning tomorrow to go over some notes. Y'all should expect some in depth coverage on the 3500 from us soon.
The indiegogo is NOT to raise funds for production, it is to build buzz; these are ready to roll.

I'll have a special signup link to provide soon to get you the max discount when the campaign goes live.


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## Gordon Parr

Oh my…that’s alot of “candy” in that pic!


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## rooterha

ProjectionHead said:


> I've got a call with their engineers in the morning tomorrow to go over some notes. Y'all should expect some in depth coverage on the 3500 from us soon.
> The indiegogo is NOT to raise funds for production, it is to build buzz; these are ready to roll.
> 
> I'll have a special signup link to provide soon to get you the max discount when the campaign goes live.
> 
> View attachment 3238039


Any early thoughts on how it compares to the L9G? I'm still in my 100 day window. Considering this or the T1 but definitely would love to get something thats supported in the states.


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## ProjectionHead

rooterha said:


> Any early thoughts on how it compares to the L9G? I'm still in my 100 day window. Considering this or the T1 but definitely would love to get something thats supported in the states.


First glance, it's a strong competitor for sure. Hesitant to get into too much detail quote yet as we are still testing and evaluating but base don my limited time with it I can say for certain that this projector is legit, produces stated brightness and gives anything out right now a run for the money.


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## rooterha

Most curious about the HDR tone mapping (especially in dark scenes) vs L9G, so if you can cover that at some point would be awesome.


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## mrmoomin

Have they revealed anything about their commitment to tech support? My worry is that the specs are great, but if something goes wrong, it's the same situation as a lot of these smaller UST companies where getting support is a nightmare.


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## JereyWolf

mrmoomin said:


> Have they revealed anything about their commitment to tech support? My worry is that the specs are great, but if something goes wrong, it's the same situation as a lot of these smaller UST companies where getting support is a nightmare.


I would note that even from a large company, Samsung, I've received terrible support for a defect on my LSP9T. I went through 3 rounds of service, (sending my projector to their service center) with them sending it back to me twice in non-working condition and never fixing the original defect. It's been more than 3 months since I've been without a working projector (which is my TV replacement) and I'm still working with the to get it resolved. If there was a company that provided real support, I would be happy to pay a premium for it.


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## Harze2k

No HDMI 2.1 right?


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## rooterha

JereyWolf said:


> I would note that even from a large company, Samsung, I've received terrible support for a defect on my LSP9T. I went through 3 rounds of service, (sending my projector to their service center) with them sending it back to me twice in non-working condition and never fixing the original defect. It's been more than 3 months since I've been without a working projector (which is my TV replacement) and I'm still working with the to get it resolved. If there was a company that provided real support, I would be happy to pay a premium for it.


Yep, and Hisense has been notoriously terrible with L9G support and the 100 day guarantee so far so who knows. A smaller company that only has 2 projector models might be easier to deal with if anything.


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## rooterha

Any updates on this @ProjectionHead


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## aerodynamics

Impressive specs. Low input lag is a great surprise too. Interested to hear about contrast and black levels especially if they're on the level of the T1 and C2. At 3500 lumens, probably not. The 2000 lumens model more likely but wouldn't be bright enough for me.

Very unfortunate name for a startup.


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## ProjectionHead

mrmoomin said:


> Have they revealed anything about their commitment to tech support? My worry is that the specs are great, but if something goes wrong, it's the same situation as a lot of these smaller UST companies where getting support is a nightmare.


Very valid concern. While specs and performance may be great, reliability and support are still the unknown for a new brand.
Going through Indiegogo, you will always take a greater risk then when purchasing through an established dealer.
We will likely be working with them both for the launch as well as a direct dealer (offering support for purchases made through is, not Indiegogo) and look forward to sharing out in depth thoughts on the very near future.


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## ProjectionHead

rooterha said:


> Any updates on this @ProjectionHead


Expect some reviews from us on both units and the screen in the upcoming weeks prior to their Indiegogo.


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## mrmoomin

Thanks for your input. Looking forward to the reviews. At the 2,200 price, the lower lumen seems like a steal, considering I don't need the extra lumens, but I do tend to be risk adverse. It'd been my plan to wait the budget USTs hinted to come this summer, but this does seem like a better deal. Hopefully I'll see something that helps me overcome my indiegogo nervousness. 

A name like AWOL does not inspire confidence that they'll be sticking around to help me out!


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## Gordon Parr

Dumb question…I am now getting emails from AWOL reminding me to put down a $1 to get the “special price”…does anything think the “special price” will be lower than what Brian will be able to price it?


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## mrmoomin

Was checking in on this projector, and noticed that their website changed from Mid-February to Late February. Hoping that means we get some good info next week! Also, +1 to Gordon's question. Will there be any difference between your link, @ProjectionHead, and the one on the website that has you put in one dollar?


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## ProjectionHead

mrmoomin said:


> Was checking in on this projector, and noticed that their website changed from Mid-February to Late February. Hoping that means we get some good info next week! Also, +1 to Gordon's question. Will there be any difference between your link, @ProjectionHead, and the one on the website that has you put in one dollar?


The link that I will provide to the "backer" price will be the lowest possible; perhaps the same as signing up direct from them but there is no $1 down payment 
We're editing our first look video as we speak and will be publishing it shortly for y'all to see and providing a that signup link for maximum discount at the same time.


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## rooterha

ProjectionHead said:


> The link that I will provide to the "backer" price will be the lowest possible; perhaps the same as signing up direct from them but there is no $1 down payment
> We're editing our first look video as we speak and will be publishing it shortly for y'all to see and providing a that signup link for maximum discount at the same time.


woohoo


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## Gordon Parr

Ditto!


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## kingpint

Hi guys, greetings from Germany. I guess I will have to train my English (and my damn auto correct) a bit… I‘m sorry.  

I‘m looking forward to move into a new home by the end of the year.
It looks like I will need binoculars to watch TV on my 55 inch OLED in the future.
So I‘m thinking and learning about these UST projectors.
I found this one on YouTube and the specs look amazing.
It probably only lacks Dolby Vision (I don‘t know if this is too much of an issue?).

Do you know, if this beauty will be available in Europe (or shipped to) as well?
This hidden TV-stick thing is so cool. Just told my wife yesterday,
that I will probably buy one of these, but it will have some Chinese Android,
which will not support our German TV app from Deutsche Telekom.
And the stick available from Telekom is pretty huge and ugly.
So this is a simple thing, but probably THE solution to that.

By the way. I saw that you were discussing about some German screens.
If you have more details, I can maybe help you guys.


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## ufokillerz

if this is a proven 3500 lumens or close, this would be awesome. i have a vava chroma and a fengmi t1, and i got a feeling the lumens are definitely less then advertised. i need more light.


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## ProjectionHead

Check it out - first look at the AWOL Vision LTV-3500 in this AVS Forum thread: AWOL Vision - New UST Projector Brand Launching. First...


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## ProjectionHead

ufokillerz said:


> if this is a proven 3500 lumens or close, this would be awesome. i have a vava chroma and a fengmi t1, and i got a feeling the lumens are definitely less then advertised. i need more light.


We measured it above 3500 on our sample unit.


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## Directtv999

interesting, so 4k only till 120" ?

**4K resolution is up to 120’’ display*


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## Dave Harper

kingpint said:


> Hi guys, greetings from Germany. I guess I will have to train my English (and my damn auto correct) a bit… I‘m sorry.
> 
> I‘m looking forward to move into a new home by the end of the year.
> It looks like I will need binoculars to watch TV on my 55 inch OLED in the future.
> So I‘m thinking and learning about these UST projectors.
> I found this one on YouTube and the specs look amazing.
> *It probably only lacks Dolby Vision (I don‘t know if this is too much of an issue?).*
> 
> Do you know, if this beauty will be available in Europe (or shipped to) as well?
> This hidden TV-stick thing is so cool. Just told my wife yesterday,
> that I will probably buy one of these, but it will have some Chinese Android,
> which will not support our German TV app from Deutsche Telekom.
> And the stick available from Telekom is pretty huge and ugly.
> So this is a simple thing, but probably THE solution to that.
> 
> By the way. I saw that you were discussing about some German screens.
> If you have more details, I can maybe help you guys.


It will be updated with both Player-Led (LLDV) and TV-Led Dolby Vision support. Hopefully before launch.


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## rooterha

damn based on everything so far might swap my l9g for it. Seems pretty ideal.


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## Demetri Zuev

After watching the first look video I can see a noticeable rainbow effect in the scene with two swordsmen fighting, something to consider, though it is not mentioned aloud


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## ngoliv

aerodynamics said:


> Impressive specs. Low input lag is a great surprise too. Interested to hear about contrast and black levels especially if they're on the level of the T1 and C2. At 3500 lumens, probably not. The 2000 lumens model more likely but wouldn't be bright enough for me.
> 
> Very unfortunate name for a startup.


Where can we find the input lag information?
Cheers


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## ngoliv

ProjectionHead said:


> We measured it above 3500 on our sample unit.


Seems nice
Will you ship to UK?
If it's possible, how about the warranty?


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## ProjectionHead

ngoliv said:


> Where can we find the input lag information?
> Cheers


Advertised at around 30ms per manufacturer. Haven’t tested ourselves yet


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## ProjectionHead

ngoliv said:


> Seems nice
> Will you ship to UK?
> If it's possible, how about the warranty?


We will at the completion on Indiegogo when we start to carry it. Warranty will be through the USA however


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## ProjectionHead

rooterha said:


> damn based on everything so far might swap my l9g for it. Seems pretty ideal.


L9 is still a top pick from me. We will be getting these two to duke it out in an upcoming shootout, but first impressions of the AWOL are 🔥


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> Check it out - first look at the AWOL Vision LTV-3500 in this AVS Forum thread: AWOL Vision - New UST Projector Brand Launching. First...


Brian, the initial look at this projector looks great based on the review. I tried to find out how to reserve a unit per your video instructions, but there wasn’t anything on the webpage letting me do that. Is the reservation process up and running?

Also, their FAQ says that they support 4K/60 at RGB444. That would require 24GB ports (HDMI 2.1 support) unless they drop down to 8bit. The review calls out HDMI 2.0 only though. Can you confirm?


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Brian, the initial look at this projector looks great based on the review. I tried to find out how to reserve a unit per your video instructions, but there wasn’t anything on the webpage letting me do that. Is the reservation process up and running?
> 
> Also, their FAQ says that they support 4K/60 at RGB444. That would require 24GB ports (HDMI 2.1 support) unless they drop down to 8bit. The review calls out HDMI 2.0 only though. Can you confirm?
> View attachment 3242537


Form to signup is on the right hand column (desktop) or bottom (mobile) of this page:








AWOL Vision - Projector Screen | Shop by Brand - Projection Screen


AWOL Vision




www.projectorscreen.com




There is (1) hdmi 2.1 port with eArc. I’ll have to fire my editor if they didn’t make that clear in the write up (I mention it in the video)


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## ProjectionHead

Harze2k said:


> No HDMI 2.1 right?


One hdmi 2.1 with eArc
*edit: No HDMI 2.1


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> Check it out - first look at the AWOL Vision LTV-3500 in this AVS Forum thread: AWOL Vision - New UST Projector Brand Launching. First...


Brian, 
could you ask about this spec contradiction on their website?

Are they saying they have to change resolution or refresh rate to hit 150”? That doesn’t make sense to me.


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> Form to signup is on the right hand column (desktop) or bottom (mobile) of this page:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AWOL Vision - Projector Screen | Shop by Brand - Projection Screen
> 
> 
> AWOL Vision
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is (1) hdmi 2.1 port with eArc. I’ll have to fire my editor if they didn’t make that clear in the write up (I mention it in the video)



Just to be sure I understand, it’s this box right here?


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Just to be sure I understand, it’s this box right here?
> 
> View attachment 3242550


Correct!


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> One hdmi 2.1 with eArc


From the review on your site:

”It features a total of three HDMI 2.0 ports, one of which is hidden inside a trapdoor in the back, designed to hold the included FireTV stick, making this a Smart TV.”

I know that it’s possible to support eARC with HDMI 2.0, but not their claimed resolution. That is why I asked.

Thanks for clarifying!


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> From the review on your site:
> 
> ”It features a total of three HDMI 2.0 ports, one of which is hidden inside a trapdoor in the back, designed to hold the included FireTV stick, making this a Smart TV.”
> 
> I know that it’s possible to support eARC with HDMI 2.0, but not their claimed resolution. That is why I asked.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying!


gonna get that corrected right now, thanks!


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## mrmoomin

Demetri Zuev said:


> After watching the first look video I can see a noticeable rainbow effect in the scene with two swordsmen fighting, something to consider, though it is not mentioned aloud


I looked, and I didn't see anything. Does make me think of the "test" projector central usually mentions in their review. @ProjectionHead, if you dart your eyes back and forth on white text on a black background, can you see rainbows? More or less than other three lasers?


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## mcollin6

Brian, 

As an aside, I looked up that new projector screen you referenced in the video, it doesn’t seem like anything exciting - a standard 0.5 gain lenticular UST ALR 100” screen. Any reason in particular that you went with that one for the video review?


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Brian,
> 
> As an aside, I looked up that new projector screen you referenced in the video, it doesn’t seem like anything exciting - a standard 0.5 gain lenticular UST ALR 100” screen. Any reason in particular that you went with that one for the video review?


It's a new line that we started carrying to replace Grandview due to all of their problems with fulfilment and "below our standards" customer service. Even though it has a higher gain than the Grandview Dynamique 0.4 we previously used in our videos, it has same black levels.
The frame is also really well constructed and it has adjustable mounting brackets for easier installation. It will essentially be the Grandview Dynamique replacement/upgrade and gets our nod as the "best value" for a legit 4k UST ALR screen right now.
We've setup and tested 5 screens; all were put together flawlessly with no sort of tensioning or other issues. We now have a bunch being air shipped in expected to arrive in 2-3 weeks.
We would have used the AWOL screen but we didn't yet have it in hand. I just got it yesterday so we'll be setting it up sometime soon to see how it stacks up to our current offerings of UST lenticulars (Spectra, SI, Stewart and Elite) and plan on doing a UST Screen massive comparison too.

** Spectra Projection: Home - Spectra Projection








Spectra Projection


Spectra Projection




www.projectorscreen.com


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## Dave Harper

Demetri Zuev said:


> After watching the first look video I can see a noticeable rainbow effect in the scene with two swordsmen fighting, something to consider, though it is not mentioned aloud


I wouldn’t judge any rainbows or similar on a video that’s projected, captured by a camera, uploaded to the cloud, downloaded back to a computer or device and viewed on its screen. At any number of points there could be a timing mismatch, amongst a million other things. 

The only way to see this is in person, by eye. I’m not super susceptible, but I didn’t notice it being an issue, at all.


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## JereyWolf

@ProjectionHead any idea yet on the timeline of when you'll have them for sale on your website?


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## ProjectionHead

JereyWolf said:


> @ProjectionHead any idea yet on the timeline of when you'll have them for sale on your website?


Not until the completion of the Indiegogo, so likely the end of March. I guess we could sell them early but it would be at a much higher price than Indiegogo (which is below my cost). Downside is you would pay more, upside is that we back it, support it and handle any issues.


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## ProjectionHead

mcollin6 said:


> Brian,
> could you ask about this spec contradiction on their website?
> 
> Are they saying they have to change resolution or refresh rate to hit 150”? That doesn’t make sense to me.
> 
> View attachment 3242549


I will get some clarification on that and update you soon.


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## Gordon Parr

I am kinda fired up about this and have a few questions — is it possible to give us hint as to how much more it would cost to purchase from you?

Would the cheaper 2500 be better of a light control room…or would the 3500 be the way to go?

Was going to ask about the AWOL screen but read about you waiting to get your hands on one. Do you have your new screens posted yet?

They are offering the Smart Cabinets…I like them but don’t really see any place for an AVR 
(to be out of site) or placement of the center speaker…could the center speaker fit on top and not interfere with the projection?

My main concern now is for a decent cabinet that won’t break a school teacher’s bank - Salamander just way out of the budget with what the UST and screen are going to cost.

Thoughts anyone?


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## Grumi

I just asked AWOL about the European market. 
They will ship to Europe from the Indiegogo campaign but they have no plan at the moment to partner with specific retailers or distributors in Europe.


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## mcollin6

ProjectionHead said:


> It's a new line that we started carrying to replace Grandview due to all of their problems with fulfilment and "below our standards" customer service. Even though it has a higher gain than the Grandview Dynamique 0.4 we previously used in our videos, it has same black levels.
> The frame is also really well constructed and it has adjustable mounting brackets for easier installation. It will essentially be the Grandview Dynamique replacement/upgrade and gets our nod as the "best value" for a legit 4k UST ALR screen right now.
> We've setup and tested 5 screens; all were put together flawlessly with no sort of tensioning or other issues. We now have a bunch being air shipped in expected to arrive in 2-3 weeks.
> We would have used the AWOL screen but we didn't yet have it in hand. I just got it yesterday so we'll be setting it up sometime soon to see how it stacks up to our current offerings of UST lenticulars (Spectra, SI, Stewart and Elite) and plan on doing a UST Screen massive comparison too.
> 
> ** Spectra Projection: Home - Spectra Projection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spectra Projection
> 
> 
> Spectra Projection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3242567


That’s awesome! Honestly, I have heard that all the lenticular material comes from a single material supplier, so I could never understand the differences between the screen offerings, and was just looking at the cheapest one. 

I’ll be looking forward to that review!


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## ngoliv

Grumi said:


> I just asked AWOL about the European market.
> They will ship to Europe from the Indiegogo campaign but they have no plan at the moment to partner with specific retailers or distributors in Europe.


I am afraid there will be no warranty although Indiegogo can help shipping to Europe 😌


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## ProjectionHead

Gordon Parr said:


> I am kinda fired up about this and have a few questions — is it possible to give us hint as to how much more it would cost to purchase from you?


No price talk in public thread allowed but I can tell you that the Indiegogo price is lower than my cost.



Gordon Parr said:


> Would the cheaper 2500 be better of a light control room…or would the 3500 be the way to go?


In a light controlled room the LTV-2500 should be more than ample



Gordon Parr said:


> Was going to ask about the AWOL screen but read about you waiting to get your hands on one. Do you have your new screens posted yet?


The Grandview Dynamique replacement/upgrade are from a new brand, Spectra Projection:








Spectra Projection


Spectra Projection




www.projectorscreen.com







Gordon Parr said:


> They are offering the Smart Cabinets…I like them but don’t really see any place for an AVR
> (to be out of site) or placement of the center speaker…could the center speaker fit on top and not interfere with the projection?


AWOL has posted specs of the cabinets on their website: Smart Cabinets
Center channel appears that it may fit on top of the credenza against the wall. I use a DT-9060 which is about the same size as the projector itself and will let you know how it fits once I get my credenza; same with receiver.


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## Gordon Parr

Thanks, Brian…and thanks for your honestly in your DM!


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## ProjectionHead

EPBMan just published his video on the AWOL as well : 




His review is NOT sponsored in any way; he’s just a tech enthusiast. I’d been speaking with him privately about this projector over the past week or so and we both had the same thoughts.


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## JereyWolf

For a moment in the video he shows some menus but doesn't go into detail.
Are you able share details about the calibration controls? The gamma and white balance options are grayed out in the Vivid pre-set he is using.

I'm wondering, is there 10 and 20 point white balance controls & 20 point gamma control similar to the recent Hisense models?
Is the "light mode" setting is a luminance control?

Around 21:12 it shows an info screen that is kind of nice. It shows color bit depth and HDMI format...but for some reason calls it color space.


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## mrmoomin

Saw on a comment on their Facebook that this is slated to launch March 1st.


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## Aztar35

Dave Harper said:


> I wouldn’t judge any rainbows or similar on a video that’s projected, captured by a camera, uploaded to the cloud, downloaded back to a computer or device and viewed on its screen. At any number of points there could be a timing mismatch, amongst a million other things.
> 
> The only way to see this is in person, by eye. I’m not super susceptible, but I didn’t notice it being an issue, at all.


Dave, it was great running into you at the Showroom yesterday. 

It makes sense as I know some of those tri-laser projectors can be difficult with the cameras even where they present with magenta or sepia tones on video.

I still have to get a demo of the AWOL and preferably one calibrated by you. That LG I saw there that you calibrated was looking pretty darn good. The others too; you and your team did a fantastic job!


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## JereyWolf

Aztar35 said:


> Dave, it was great running into you at the Showroom yesterday.
> 
> It makes sense as I know some of those tri-laser projectors can be difficult with the cameras even where they present with magenta or sepia tones on video.
> 
> I still have to get a demo of the AWOL and preferably one calibrated by you. That LG I saw there that you calibrated was looking pretty darn good. The others too; you and your team did a fantastic job!


I'm glad that you guys can get together, see these units in person and calibrate & tweak settings.
I'm anxious to hear opinions from people like you guys to know if this unit really has the value that the marketing materials suggest. If it does, I'll likely replace the PX1 Pro.


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## Aztar35

JereyWolf said:


> I'm glad that you guys can get together, see these units in person and calibrate & tweak settings.
> I'm anxious to hear opinions from people like you guys to know if this unit really has the value that the marketing materials suggest. If it does, I'll likely replace the PX1 Pro.


Hi, Jerry. I still didn't get a chance to see it in action.


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## JereyWolf

Aztar35 said:


> Hi, Jerry. I still didn't get a chance to see it in action.


I know, but I'm guessing you'll get a chance to sometime soon.


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## MOppermann

Hello, I'm new to this forum. My name is Marcelo and would like to understand better the differences in image quality when you set up the projector mode in front or selling etc. Is there any loss in quality by choosing one of these settings in specific? Thanks


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## MOppermann

Sorry, another question. I was not planning to pay $1000 dollars for a screen projector to have a 120" screen image. Are there other cheap options, China made for example?


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## Directtv999

@ProjectionHead I need your suggestion , recently built my basement HT pitch dark room if I turn of the lights what projector you suggest budget is 3k you want me to wait for AWOL or go with Fengmi T1/ EPSON 5050UB or Benq x3000i 

Please PM me I need PJ asap.


----------



## amheck

Def interested in this but need to figure out a 120" alr screen. I can't be the only one that can't spend $2K for something like that. My mind is having trouble comprehending there aren't alternatives out there. 

Do we have any idea how the AWOL screen they are selling might compare to the Vava? 

$3k was my soft limit for a ust and I guess I can go a bit more to the $3200 indiegogo price but then I still need to figure out a suitable screen.


----------



## rooterha

amheck said:


> Def interested in this but need to figure out a 120" alr screen. I can't be the only one that can't spend $2K for something like that. My mind is having trouble comprehending there aren't alternatives out there.
> 
> Do we have any idea how the AWOL screen they are selling might compare to the Vava?
> 
> $3k was my soft limit for a ust and I guess I can go a bit more to the $3200 indiegogo price but then I still need to figure out a suitable screen.


They're selling their 120" screen for $1050 in the presale


----------



## amheck

rooterha said:


> They're selling their 120" screen for $1050 in the presale


I see that now, thanks. So hopefully that "Cinematic" version is the one I want as its the only 120" available.

I have found the Vava 120" screen new in box locally for $500.

Are the prices here UST PROJECTORS
for the PJ and screen going to be the same as Indiegogo?

@ProjectionHead will you be giving your thoughts on their screens before the campaign goes live?


----------



## rooterha

amheck said:


> I see that now, thanks. So hopefully that "Cinematic" version is the one I want as its the only 120" available.
> 
> I have found the Vava 120" screen new in box locally for $500.
> 
> Are the prices here UST PROJECTORS
> for the PJ and screen going to be the same as Indiegogo?
> 
> @ProjectionHead will you be giving your thoughts on their screens before the campaign goes live?


Yes, you definitely want the cinematic. The other one will be bright at the expense of picture quality and won't be good.


----------



## ProjectionHead

amheck said:


> I see that now, thanks. So hopefully that "Cinematic" version is the one I want as its the only 120" available.
> 
> I have found the Vava 120" screen new in box locally for $500.
> 
> Are the prices here UST PROJECTORS
> for the PJ and screen going to be the same as Indiegogo?
> 
> @ProjectionHead will you be giving your thoughts on their screens before the campaign goes live?


They sent me one but I don't know if we will get to it prior to the campaign going live. I've got quite a backlog here with the 2 new LG units, New Epson LS1200, AWOL LTV-2500 & Spectra Vantage UST screen and others piling up around my desk.

I tested a VAVA previously; it has less ALR % and higher gain which ends up with less black levels. Also had the wavier ridges which softened the image... but for $500 that may be worth the sacrifices over the $2,000 Spectra/Grandview


----------



## Mikenificent1

@ProjectionHead Hi Brian, you mentioned that the native contrast of this unit is a little over 1000:1 and that you spoke to the manufacturer and said if they could get it to 2:000 to 1 it would be killer. Why set the bar so low? That is still low and black levels would not be good. SamsunLSP9T does ~2800 : 1, and the units that get lauded for good black levels (Xiaomi and Fengmi), do 3200:1 and 3400:1. So 3:000:1 should be the goal IMO.

That’s native contrast. Does anyone know if any of the UST’s are even doing laser dimming for even higher dynamic contrast? I know the Samsungs do not which is bewildering.


----------



## rooterha

Mikenificent1 said:


> @ProjectionHead Hi Brian, you mentioned that the native contrast of this unit is a little over 1000:1 and that you spoke to the manufacturer and said if they could get it to 2:000 to 1 it would be killer. Why set the bar so low? That is still low and black levels would not be good. SamsunLSP9T does ~2800 : 1, and the units that get lauded for good black levels (Xiaomi and Fengmi), do 3200:1 and 3400:1. So 3:000:1 should be the goal IMO.
> 
> That’s native contrast. Does anyone know if any of the UST’s are even doing laser dimming for even higher dynamic contrast? I know the Samsungs do not which is bewildering.


I don't think the LSP9T is 2800:1 from what I've seen, do you have a source?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Mikenificent1 said:


> @ProjectionHead Hi Brian, you mentioned that the native contrast of this unit is a little over 1000:1 and that you spoke to the manufacturer and said if they could get it to 2:000 to 1 it would be killer. Why set the bar so low? That is still low and black levels would not be good. SamsunLSP9T does ~2800 : 1, and the units that get lauded for good black levels (Xiaomi and Fengmi), do 3200:1 and 3400:1. So 3:000:1 should be the goal IMO.
> 
> That’s native contrast. Does anyone know if any of the UST’s are even doing laser dimming for even higher dynamic contrast? I know the Samsungs do not which is bewildering.


We measured the Samsung LSP9T a while ago at around 2,200 I believe, but I know we will be doing another round of testing on all the USTs soon.

If the AWOL could get up to be on par with the LSP9T/HU85LA it would be a killer.

Now why am I aiming lower than what the Fenmgi is measured at? Just trying to be realistic of what's achievable from the "USA brands" to date. Would I love for all those players to figure out how to get to 3k+? Heck yeah!!!


----------



## theregos

Morning all - received one of these as well and had mixed experience with gaming and HDMI 2.0. Review will be up early next week and I'll drop a link here too.


----------



## JereyWolf

mcollin6 said:


> Brian,
> could you ask about this spec contradiction on their website?
> 
> Are they saying they have to change resolution or refresh rate to hit 150”? That doesn’t make sense to me.
> 
> View attachment 3242549


This question was asked on their Facebook too;


----------



## amheck

Anyone with the Bomaker Polaris thinking of giving this model a try? Price is very tempting with 90 day return and 4 year warranty on the Polaris via Walmart but just not sure on it yet. Wondering if this model is worth the price premium


----------



## rooterha

theregos said:


> Morning all - received one of these as well and had mixed experience with gaming and HDMI 2.0. Review will be up early next week and I'll drop a link here too.


How soon will that be up? Gaming is an essential part of my projector experience so curious what the issues were.


----------



## theregos

rooterha said:


> How soon will that be up? Gaming is an essential part of my projector experience so curious what the issues were.


Hope to have it up this week, but still ironing out some bugs I'm getting with the Awol team.


----------



## amheck

Awol facebook team confirmed they'll have $100 off a screen/pj combo on Indiegogo, FYI. Guess this might be my purchase unless some info comes out this week....

Anyone know how the Indiegogo thing works? I have never purchased there before. Is this a limited time thing? Will we know how long the discount is good for?


----------



## mrmoomin

amheck said:


> Awol facebook team confirmed they'll have $100 off a screen/pj combo on Indiegogo, FYI. Guess this might be my purchase unless some info comes out this week....
> 
> Anyone know how the Indiegogo thing works? I have never purchased there before. Is this a limited time thing? Will we know how long the discount is good for?


 Going off what they've said to comments on their facebook, the campaign will run 30 days, and the super discount will be active the whole time for people who sign up before the campaign launches.


----------



## amheck

mrmoomin said:


> Going off what they've said to comments on their facebook, the campaign will run 30 days, and the super discount will be active the whole time for people who sign up before the campaign launches.


Great, I paid my dollar. Would be great to have 30 days locked in to see if another review or two can come out.


----------



## arsenalfc89

theregos said:


> Hope to have it up this week, but still ironing out some bugs I'm getting with the Awol team.


Have you been impressed with it so far?


----------



## Fathmi

amheck said:


> Anyone with the Bomaker Polaris thinking of giving this model a try? Price is very tempting with 90 day return and 4 year warranty on the Polaris via Walmart but just not sure on it yet. Wondering if this model is worth the price premium


Beware that the indiegogo campaign for this projector doesn't have any return policy. They don't mention it anywhere unless you ask them. When I asked, they're answer is this 
"There is a 2 year warranty but no return policy. We have 24/7 technical support, you can email [email protected] or call +1 (800) 659-5235"


----------



## mrmoomin

Fathmi said:


> Beware that the indiegogo campaign for this projector doesn't have any return policy. They don't mention it anywhere unless you ask them. When I asked, they're answer is this
> "There is a 2 year warranty but no return policy. We have 24/7 technical support, you can email [email protected] or call +1 (800) 659-5235"


This is why I'm still wait and see on this. I saw rainbows on the LSP7T, and even though the likelyhood of rainbows is much lower on this, there's no guarantees, and that lack of flexibility is just too risky for me.


----------



## amheck

mrmoomin said:


> This is why I'm still wait and see on this. I saw rainbows on the LSP7T, and even though the likelyhood of rainbows is much lower on this, there's no guarantees, and that lack of flexibility is just too risky for me.


that is concerning. I don't know if I see rainbows or not. ugh


----------



## ufokillerz

Put in my indiegogo for the 3500, have a vava chroma and a fengmi t1 currently. guess i'm selling somethings soon. my 135" screen needs more power.


----------



## rooterha

ufokillerz said:


> Put in my indiegogo for the 3500, have a vava chroma and a fengmi t1 currently. guess i'm selling somethings soon. my 135" screen needs more power.


Well, the AWOL is close to 2k around 135", not 4k.


----------



## amheck

Any concerns that the shipping date keeps getting pushed back? I thought I had read that these were already produced and this was just a method of distribution.

Pretty sure I've seen Feb and March shipping and now Indiegogo is quoting April.


----------



## rooterha

amheck said:


> Any concerns that the shipping date keeps getting pushed back? I thought I had read that these were already produced and this was just a method of distribution.
> 
> Pretty sure I've seen Feb and March shipping and now Indiegogo is quoting April.


Correct - this is what I'm messaging them about now. I was under the impression they had a bunch of these sitting here waiting to ship out based on what Brian and they have said.


----------



## rooterha

They said 2500 will ship in March, 3500 in April


----------



## arsenalfc89

ufokillerz said:


> Put in my indiegogo for the 3500, have a vava chroma and a fengmi t1 currently. guess i'm selling somethings soon. my 135" screen needs more power.


Same. I have the Chroma as well so going to compare both. The black level on the AWOL may keep the Chroma on top for me but we’ll see.


----------



## rooterha

Think I'm going to wait for a few more reviews and to test out the L9G Dolby Vision update before I decide what to do. Not 100% sold yet.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

ProjectionHead said:


> One hdmi 2.1 with eArc


I believe it is only HDMI 2.0. the eArc is eArc on HDMI 2.0. The tech specs located here clearly state that. Here is a screen clip


----------



## ProjectionHead

rooterha said:


> Correct - this is what I'm messaging them about now. I was under the impression they had a bunch of these sitting here waiting to ship out based on what Brian and they have said.


There are units already produced and sitting in a stock room. As far as when they are shipping them to Indiegogo backers, I don't know.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> I believe it is only HDMI 2.0. the eArc is eArc on HDMI 2.0. The tech specs located here clearly state that. Here is a screen clip
> View attachment 3247359


I thought I had corrected myself on that. Here is the statement from AWOL:

"Our 3 HDMI ports are HDMI 2.0b at 18GB bandwidth with1 HDMI eARC feature support not the full HDMI 2.1 with 4K 120Hz, FRL, VRR and ALLM features.
Since the TI 0.47 inch DMD chip only supports 4K 60Hz signal, it means even the HDMI supports 4K 120Hz the TI DLP platform will compress it to 4K 60Hz for output. That‘s why we chose the 4K 60Hz with eARC HW platform in current technology phase."


----------



## cleverdevil

I went for it with the 3500 and the 120” cinema screen. My first UST! In the midst of a renovation and this will be the centerpiece of the family room / theater.

I’m sure I’ll be back for tips and tricks on calibration, set up, etc.


----------



## rooterha

Yeah they said 2500 in March, 3500 in April so assuming they have more of the 2500s ready to go.


----------



## amheck

saw this pop up on my feed this am. haven't been able to watch it yet


----------



## Netace44

rooterha said:


> Yeah they said 2500 in March, 3500 in April so assuming they have more of the 2500s ready to go.


Have you seen any 2500 reviews yet? I have a light controlled room and curious about the brightness.


----------



## Dave Harper

Netace44 said:


> Have you seen any 2500 reviews yet? I have a light controlled room and curious about the brightness.


After evaluating both, I’d say get the 3500 and just turn the laser power down, especially if you’re getting in on the cheap IndieGogo price!


----------



## mrmoomin

Dave Harper said:


> After evaluating both, I’d say get the 3500 and just turn the laser power down, especially if you’re getting in on the cheap IndieGogo price!


Any reason other than flexibility? I'm picking up the 2500, as it fits my budget better. I'm also using in a home theater environment (shape of room does not allow traditional throw). Curious to know the performance difference!


----------



## amheck

Does anyone know exactly what the $1 prepay and early sign up did for you? I did all of that and when I go to the Indiegogo site I see a price. I haven't signed in anywhere so I'm just a random site visitor, I think. Is there a lower price if I sign in? How are they linking the people who pre-registered?


----------



## kingpint

I also asked them via chat, if I will get some other link or what my VIP status means. 
They only said that my order would be priorized that way.

I wasn‘t interested in further dialog, sice there are only two ways to relate my VIP and a potential order.

That would be my mail adress or my payment information (Visa card) - but you could just use different data. So the truth might be, that it‘s just a lost Dollar...


----------



## Directtv999

kingpint said:


> I also asked them via chat, if I will get some other link or what my VIP status means.
> They only said that my order would be priorized that way.
> 
> I wasn‘t interested in further dialog, sice there are only two ways to relate my VIP and a potential order.
> 
> That would be my mail adress or my payment information (Visa card) - but you could just use different data. So the truth might be, that it‘s just a lost Dollar...


Maybe you lock the price for there official release


----------



## mrmoomin

My gathering is that eventually they will sell out of Batch A during Indiegogo, then Batch B will be sold at a higher price, and later shipping period. I think being a V.I.P. ensures you Batch A's pricing for the entire campaign, and possibly still shipping during Batch A's time period,


----------



## amheck

mrmoomin said:


> My gathering is that eventually they will sell out of Batch A during Indiegogo, then Batch B will be sold at a higher price, and later shipping period. I think being a V.I.P. ensures you Batch A's pricing for the entire campaign, and possibly still shipping during Batch A's time period,


That's what I am seeing, too. Nice to possibly give some time for more reviews to come out and not risk any price increases or potential shipping delays


----------



## Dave Harper

mrmoomin said:


> Any reason other than flexibility? I'm picking up the 2500, as it fits my budget better. I'm also using in a home theater environment (shape of room does not allow traditional throw). Curious to know the performance difference!


Let’s just say the 3500 is just a better machine.


----------



## mrmoomin

Dave Harper said:


> Let’s just say the 3500 is just a MUCH better machine!


Well shoot. It's not in the budget for me to upgrade, so hopefully if there's something not up to par or that's a deal breaker with the 2500, somebody will cover it before the Indiegogo is over.


----------



## kingpint

Someone asked about the VIP status on Indiegogo - here is the answer from AWOL:

_AWOL: Hi John, thank you for your question. VIP status gets you guaranteed 45% off throughout the campaign. Right now the discount is 45% off for everyone but the discount will decrease as time goes on. You also get priority/first in line shipping.

John: thank you for confirming. Will you be announcing the end of the Indiegogo campaign or will it end suddenly?
So it appears VIP can order on last day of campaign and still get 45% off and priority shipping, even though non-VIP will get less discount and in the back of the line for shipping?

AWOL: Hi John, the campaign will end in 30 days, we will send out reminders when the campaign gets closer to the end.
Yes, the VIP status gets you 45% off throughout the campaign (if VIPs buy on the last day they still will get 45% off). VIPs will get priority shipping within their batch. (If a VIP purchases and Batch A is already sold out, they will get priority shipping in Batch B)._

I‘m very interested in how they are linking the Indiegogo order to the 1$ VIP payment.
I did the VIP payment via The Ultimate Launchpad for New Products | ComingSoon with an trash mail from iCloud (not my mail I use on Indiegogo).
But ok, it‘s the original statement from AWOL. I guess they will somehow manage that.


----------



## Dave Harper

mrmoomin said:


> Well shoot. It's not in the budget for me to upgrade, so hopefully if there's something not up to par or that's a deal breaker with the 2500, somebody will cover it before the Indiegogo is over.


No it’s not that. The 2500 is a great machine too, but it’s just that the 3500 is the better one, as it should be since it’s the flagship.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> Let’s just say the 3500 is just a better machine.


It's much brighter, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better unless you need that extra juice.


----------



## mrmoomin

ProjectionHead said:


> It's much brighter, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better unless you need that extra juice.


That's what I was hoping! I'm okay with less juice.

Also, I wanted to pass on some info Awol shared with me. I'd been asking them about RBE, and if anybody had reported any, as I'd seen some before on the LSP7T. They said nothing reported, but I was still antsy, so asked them about the specific speed of the lasers. They checked in with their manufacturers, and I got this response back: 

"The rainbow issue appears in single DLP technology projector comes for 2 reasons. The biggest is issue caused by the 1st part that the color wheel which is about 120Hz speed, the other part is caused by the laser on/off switch.
AWOL projector is equipped with Triple pure laser source without the color wheel and the RGB laser switch is up to MHz speed level, which means we get much better rainbow performance."

From my understanding, a 4x color wheel is around 240Hz, a 6x 300hz or so, so a MHz would be around around 16x. It helped me feel comfortable to jump in, and I'll be crossing my fingers that this all checks out! Hopefully this info can help somebody else out too!


----------



## ProjectionHead

mrmoomin said:


> That's what I was hoping! I'm okay with less juice.
> 
> Also, I wanted to pass on some info Awol shared with me. I'd been asking them about RBE, and if anybody had reported any, as I'd seen some before on the LSP7T. They said nothing reported, but I was still antsy, so asked them about the specific speed of the lasers. They checked in with their manufacturers, and I got this response back:
> 
> "The rainbow issue appears in single DLP technology projector comes for 2 reasons. The biggest is issue caused by the 1st part that the color wheel which is about 120Hz speed, the other part is caused by the laser on/off switch.
> AWOL projector is equipped with Triple pure laser source without the color wheel and the RGB laser switch is up to MHz speed level, which means we get much better rainbow performance."
> 
> From my understanding, a 4x color wheel is around 240Hz, a 6x 300hz or so, so a MHz would be around around 16x. It helped me feel comfortable to jump in, and I'll be crossing my fingers that this all checks out! Hopefully this info can help somebody else out too!


No one here has seen any rainbows from this. Since it's not using a color wheel, the only RBE would be from the timing of the laser like AWOL stated; something that many people saw with the Samsung LSP9T when it was first released.

While I have only seen 2 units in person (one each of the LTV-2500 & LTV-3500), neither had any RBE visible to anyone here on the team.


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

I know it's early days for this unit, but I'd love to see some comparisons between the AWOL 3500 and Fengmi T1 (with latest firmware). Anyone care to speculate??


----------



## arsenalfc89

I’m wondering if the AWOL is just a repackaged Hisense L9G? Just like the Bokmaker was.


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> I’m wondering if the AWOL is just a repackaged Hisense L9G? Just like the Bokmaker was.


What does repackaged mean? The Bomaker clearly isn't just a 'repackaged' L9G since it has different features / brightness / non fixed screen size.

The AWOL seems even more dissimilar to it


----------



## amheck

I did see someone asking on one of AWOL's YT videos why the remote is so similar to the Bomaker.


----------



## rooterha

I mean considering it's a brand new company I'm guessing they didn't build everything from scratch. Makes sense to use some components, modify it to fit your needs and then develop your own firmware with an internal engineering team to create something better.

That's what I'd do - honestly a smaller company not weighed down by bureaucracy that listens to the community could do a much better job at providing a UST for enthusiasts than any of these other companies.


----------



## lattiboy

Scott Rosenberg said:


> I know it's early days for this unit, but I'd love to see some comparisons between the AWOL 3500 and Fengmi T1 (with latest firmware). Anyone care to speculate??


As a T1 owner I think that the AWOL 3500 will trounce it in Lumen output and probably edge out the T1 in color gamut, but the contrast is about 3x lower and AFAIK that isn’t something you can generally increase meaningfully with firmware. Black level even more so, which is equally as impressive with the Xiaomi / Fengmi stuff.

The Chinese ALPD units have some tech nobody else is privy to and until it gets distributed elsewhere non-Chinese ALPD DLP units will have a rather enormous deficit in black level and contrast. I say this having owned or used the HU810P, Hisense L9, and Hisense L5F quite extensively.

If you have a bright room, the AWOL could be your best bet with a .8 screen. Probably the closest you’ll get to a proper LED appearance with any projector.


----------



## lattiboy

rooterha said:


> What does repackaged mean? The Bomaker clearly isn't just a 'repackaged' L9G since it has different features / brightness / non fixed screen size.
> 
> The AWOL seems even more dissimilar to it


Having owned the Bomaker and used the L9, the underlying picture quality is very, very, very similar. The L9 is more polished and has a lot of extra features, but once the Bomaker is calibrated (and especially with an HD Fury) it has every bit as good a picture at about half the price. It’s honestly the best value in PJs if you can get the $1600 Walmart sale that pops up occasionally.


----------



## amheck

really struggling with this decision and i'm so ready just to make a purchase. The Bomaker is def temping at its price with extended warranty. I do wondering if the AWOL is priced where it needs to be - seems to me it might be just a tad high. The Vava Chroma was cheaper and threw in a free screen at launch day. The lumens on the AWOL is great for multi-purpose rooms. If there was a no-brainer at $3k, I'd give the CC immediately, but there just doesn't seem to be a clear winner.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

I pulled the trigger on the LTV-3500 with the 100" screen. This is the first UST I have ever had. I am also considering augmenting it with a wall mounted Sonos Arc sound bar. With the projection beam coming up at such a steep angle from the UST projector, would there be any issues being able to make this work without the sound bar getting in the way of the light beam?


----------



## rooterha

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> I pulled the trigger on the LTV-3500 with the 100" screen. This is the first UST I have ever had. I am also considering augmenting it with a wall mounted Sonos Arc sound bar. With the projection beam coming up at such a steep angle from the UST projector, would there be any issues being able to make this work without the sound bar getting in the way of the light beam?


Should be fine. How deep is it?


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> What does repackaged mean? The Bomaker clearly isn't just a 'repackaged' L9G since it has different features / brightness / non fixed screen size.
> 
> The AWOL seems even more dissimilar to it


Hisense are a know OEM supplier for the Bomaker. If you do a deep dive they’re similar.


----------



## Brett Goolsby

ordered the 3500 with the1 120" screen and will be going from a near 20 year old Infocus IN83 and a 110" Carada grey screen. I am looking forward to it but not the setup and alignment part. currently researching stands that will hold the projector and still have room below for my center speaker. With 8' ceiling and the 120" screen i can't go much higher then something that's around 15" tall I am figuring.


----------



## amheck

Brett Goolsby said:


> ordered the 3500 with the1 120" screen and will be going from a near 20 year old Infocus IN83 and a 110" Carada grey screen. I am looking forward to it but not the setup and alignment part. currently researching stands that will hold the projector and still have room below for my center speaker. With 8' ceiling and the 120" screen i can't go much higher then something that's around 15" tall I am figuring.


I'm in the exact same boat. 120" and 8' ceilings. I guess I am planning to mount the screen as high as possible and the see where the pj ends up and then build a stand around that. Hope I can fit a center channel as high as possible and maybe angle it up a little bit. 

Also looking into sliding shelves assuming the pj will need to out from the wall a little bit


----------



## Brett Goolsby

amheck said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. 120" and 8' ceilings. I guess I am planning to mount the screen as high as possible and the see where the pj ends up and then build a stand around that. Hope I can fit a center channel as high as possible and maybe angle it up a little bit.
> 
> Also looking into sliding shelves assuming the pj will need to out from the wall a little bit


I am leaning towards the Wayfair one for now until I can find something better but I think it’ll definitely be good enough to get setup.









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----------



## Brett Goolsby

amheck said:


> I'm in the exact same boat. 120" and 8' ceilings. I guess I am planning to mount the screen as high as possible and the see where the pj ends up and then build a stand around that. Hope I can fit a center channel as high as possible and maybe angle it up a little bit.
> 
> Also looking into sliding shelves assuming the pj will need to out from the wall a little bit


I would be afraid the sliding shelf would be a screen alignment nightmare if you didn’t get in exact spot every time or if it started to sag over time from the weight.


----------



## amheck

Brett Goolsby said:


> I would be afraid the sliding shelf would be a screen alignment nightmare if you didn’t get in exact spot every time or if it started to sag over time from the weight.


yeah, I suppose it just depends on how far away from the wall it ends up being with the 120" screen and if it makes sense to have the shelf out that far from the wall. I've been the measurements in the spec section of the AWOL site but I can't comprehend what this looks like in real life in a room. If you are ok with pulling the shelf out a bunch from the wall, there may be no issue.

There are a bunch of options I've seen, a handful on YT, including this one which looks really neat.
I guess you can go either way. Set the PJ on a table and then mount the screen where the image is, or mount the screen where you want it and then adjust the PJ so it works with that setup. Not sure which way is the preferred method but with wanting a big center channel, I'm going to go with mounting the screen up as high as possible, i guess.


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Hisense are a know OEM supplier for the Bomaker. If you do a deep dive they’re similar.


That's fine - but when the hardware has significant differences 'repackaged' isn't really accurate.


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> That's fine - but when the hardware has significant differences 'repackaged' isn't really accurate.


Lol that’s the point of being an OEM. The hardware won’t be significantly different.


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Lol that’s the point of being an OEM. The hardware won’t be significantly different.


It is though - the L9G is a fixed projection size, the Bomaker goes up to 200" the L9G is 3000 lumens, the Bomaker is 2500. "Repackaged" generally means something that is 99% identical and probably has minor packaging/firmware differences.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brett Goolsby said:


> I would be afraid the sliding shelf would be a screen alignment nightmare if you didn’t get in exact spot every time or if it started to sag over time from the weight.


I’ve got a motorized sliding shelf that triggers with projector on/off that I’m testing right now from Spectra Projection. It’s pretty darn cool and ensures projector slides out to correct placement each time.
They said it should be a finished good for sale within a couple of months.


----------



## lattiboy

rooterha said:


> It is though - the L9G is a fixed projection size, the Bomaker goes up to 200" the L9G is 3000 lumens, the Bomaker is 2500. "Repackaged" generally means something that is 99% identical and probably has minor packaging/firmware differences.


Bomaker is fixed to 100", there is no focus. 500 lumens stated difference is simply how hard you push the laser unit. Again, I own the Bomaker and have used the L9. They are practically identical in picture quality when properly calibrated.


----------



## Mikenificent1

lattiboy said:


> As a T1 owner I think that the AWOL 3500 will trounce it in Lumen output and probably edge out the T1 in color gamut, but the contrast is about 3x lower and AFAIK that isn’t something you can generally increase meaningfully with firmware. Black level even more so, which is equally as impressive with the Xiaomi / Fengmi stuff.
> 
> The Chinese ALPD units have some tech nobody else is privy to and until it gets distributed elsewhere non-Chinese ALPD DLP units will have a rather enormous deficit in black level and contrast. I say this having owned or used the HU810P, Hisense L9, and Hisense L5F quite extensively.
> 
> If you have a bright room, the AWOL could be your best bet with a .8 screen. Probably the closest you’ll get to a proper LED appearance with any projector.


I agree.~1000:1 contrast ratio is abysmal, and highly unlikely to be vastly improved since it wasn’t even close to a priority for them. Still hopeful they do though.


----------



## rooterha

lattiboy said:


> Bomaker is fixed to 100", there is no focus. 500 lumens stated difference is simply how hard you push the laser unit. Again, I own the Bomaker and have used the L9. They are practically identical in picture quality when properly calibrated.


Why does every site say it goes up to 200" ? Including their own


----------



## lattiboy

rooterha said:


> Why does every site say it goes up to 200" ? Including their own


Because they’re a joke of a company. Feel free to read the owners thread; Anything above 120” gets blurry pretty quick.


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

lattiboy said:


> As a T1 owner I think that the AWOL 3500 will trounce it in Lumen output and probably edge out the T1 in color gamut, but the contrast is about 3x lower and AFAIK that isn’t something you can generally increase meaningfully with firmware. Black level even more so, which is equally as impressive with the Xiaomi / Fengmi stuff.
> 
> The Chinese ALPD units have some tech nobody else is privy to and until it gets distributed elsewhere non-Chinese ALPD DLP units will have a rather enormous deficit in black level and contrast. I say this having owned or used the HU810P, Hisense L9, and Hisense L5F quite extensively.
> 
> If you have a bright room, the AWOL could be your best bet with a .8 screen. Probably the closest you’ll get to a proper LED appearance with any projector.


Many thanks for your insights…


----------



## heavyharmonies

I am considering this unit, but have concerns.

1. 3D is supposedly forthcoming, but as of yet there is no way to test it or see the adjustability/settings for it until after the campaign is over, and there are no returns allowed. 3D functionality is critical to me. I have initiated an inquiry with the campaign with some technical questions, e.g., will the 3D be full resolution HD, but have not received a response as of yet.

2. I realize that the tech is different, but for example on the Xgimi Aura UST projector, at least one review mentioned that putting the device in 3D playback results in a different color push than when rendering 2D content, which is problematic, as there are not different color profiles/settings for 2D vs. 3D. I want to find out if the AWOL has similar issues.

3. The subpar black levels have me concerned.

4. There are not many reviews posted yet, either in written form or on Youtube, and those that are come off as commercials more than actual critical reviews. I realize that the purpose of these pre-launch promotions are to create hype more than actual technical critique, but the rampant cheerleading/enthusiasm still gives me pause, as there aren't any actual end-user or consumer reviews yet.


----------



## Dave Harper

heavyharmonies said:


> I am considering this unit, but have concerns.
> 
> 1. 3D is supposedly forthcoming, but as of yet there is no way to test it or see the adjustability/settings for it until after the campaign is over, and there are no returns allowed. 3D functionality is critical to me. I have initiated an inquiry with the campaign with some technical questions, e.g., will the 3D be full resolution HD, but have not received a response as of yet.
> 
> 2. I realize that the tech is different, but for example on the Xgimi Aura UST projector, at least one review mentioned that putting the device in 3D playback results in a different color push than when rendering 2D content, which is problematic, as there are not different color profiles/settings for 2D vs. 3D. I want to find out if the AWOL has similar issues.
> 
> 3. The subpar black levels have me concerned.
> 
> 4. There are not many reviews posted yet, either in written form or on Youtube, and those that are come off as commercials more than actual critical reviews. I realize that the purpose of these pre-launch promotions are to create hype more than actual technical critique, but the rampant cheerleading/enthusiasm still gives me pause, as there aren't any actual end-user or consumer reviews yet.


Have you not seen this review? It has measurements and calibration charts from CalMAN to back up the so called “hype”.

The out of the box performance was incredible!









AWOL Vision - Projector Screen | Shop by Brand - Projection Screen


AWOL Vision




www.projectorscreen.com


----------



## heavyharmonies

Yes I read that review... it was created in coordination with the only other review on Youtube in concert with the people running the campaign. Not to say that there's anything untoward or fabricated, but it would be nice to see more data points (larger number of reviews).

The fact that the unit was so wonderful "out of the box" naturally makes me question whether it was a cherrypicked or precalibrated unit, i.e., not representative of what campaign backers will actually receive. It wouldn't be the first time and it's a question that won't be answered until more units appear in the wild.

Does it sound promising? Absolutely. But without any return privilege and so few data points, it's a true gamble IMO.


----------



## Dave Harper

heavyharmonies said:


> Yes I read that review... it was created in coordination with the only other review on Youtube in concert with the people running the campaign. Not to say that there's anything untoward or fabricated, but it would be nice to see more data points (larger number of reviews).
> 
> The fact that the unit was so wonderful "out of the box" naturally makes me question whether it was a cherrypicked or precalibrated unit, i.e., not representative of what campaign backers will actually receive. It wouldn't be the first time and it's a question that won't be answered until more units appear in the wild.
> 
> Does it sound promising? Absolutely. But without any return privilege and so few data points, it's a true gamble IMO.


I was the one who wrote that review and I can tell you right now it is what it is and was what it was! We specifically asked if this was pre-calibrated or cherry picked for the evaluation and the folks at AWOL said it was not and actually seemed surprised with how we reported it and how good we said it was. They told us it was just a unit they pulled off the pile and sent to us.


----------



## heavyharmonies

New review posted:



https://global.techradar.com/en-ae/reviews/awol-ltv-3500-projector



Seems like the software/firmware is quite quirky; hopefully it can be refined over time.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

Some people are probably going to think this is a stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway. The specs for the LTV-3500 state that it supports 4k @ 60 Hz up to 120 inches. But it has a max screen size of 150". I read somewhere that above 120", it drops down to 2K resolution. I don't understand why. the 4K is determined by the number of pixels. Why would that drop if you scale the picture size up above 120"? Is it just that it gets blurrier and so they are not calling it 4k?


----------



## heavyharmonies

I just received a response to my inquiry about 3D. This is the second reply I've received from AWOL within approximately a 24-hour response window, including over the weekend, so they appear to be responsive to prospective customer inquiries. I had sent these questions in before I had gone back and identified the projector with the differing color push in 3D vs. 2D to be the Xgimi Aura, hence my unspecific reference at the time.

*1. Is 3D support fully guaranteed? I wouldn't want to purchase and then discover that the 3D didn't come to fruition for whatever reason. *

_We support the mandatory 3D formats (Frame pack, side-by-side, top-bottom) and up converts frame rate from 60Hz to 120Hz or 24Hz to 144Hz._

*2. Is the 3D full frame HD? I don't want a reduced resolution implementation.*

_The 3D is full HD 1080p resolution._

*3. Does the projector support different settings or profiles for 3D vs 2D? There was one particular ust projector, I forget which one, where reviewers discovered that color skewed differently in 3d vs 2d, which is a problem if there is only one set of color settings.*

_The DLP 3D default picture performance is slightly redder or yellower than 2D images due to the characteristics of DLP 3D, there are image settings that can be used to compensate for the issue and we will consider whether to provide separate image settings for 3D. The team is developing the feature and will make sure the high image quality is constant with the 3D feature._


So the responses are promising. There were only 6 units left on the Indiegogo campaign at the current price point, and not knowing whether they will extend that quantity or not, I've gone ahead and backed while I do more research. I have until April 1 to cancel and obtain a full refund, so hopefully we'll see more reviews and information in the next 3 weeks.

It will be interesting to see how things play out. I've been bitten by Indiegogo/Kickstarter campaigns in the past, but those have been A/V devices where the funding was based entirely on unfinished pre-production prototypes and the campaign was being sought to fund further research and production. The most satisfactory crowdfunding projects I have participated in have been those like this one where the company is an established one and the campaigns have been used for marketing and/or distribution rather than a means to actually bring the product to fruition... so I'm hesitantly optimistic.


----------



## amheck

I wasnt aware you could cancel until April 1.


----------



## heavyharmonies

amheck said:


> I wasnt aware you could cancel until April 1.


From the Indiegogo receipt email (emphasis added):



> This charge will appear in your credit card statement as “INDIEGOGO* AWOL Vision”.
> 
> Crowdfunding is not shopping. Your donation is a way to support a project but does not guarantee that you will receive a perk.
> 
> *You may request a refund from Indiegogo until April 1, 2022, unless the Campaign Owner has initiated shipping with a tracking number.*
> 
> Any refunds after this date are the responsibility of the campaign owner, Team AWOL Vision, at their discretion.


Since the 3500s aren't shipping until April anyway, presumably there's no risk of it shipping before the deadline.


----------



## mrmoomin

Just got notification my 2500 is scheduled to arrive Friday! I'll make sure to report back my experience. Also, if people have any specific questions, let me know!


----------



## Brooks1

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> Some people are probably going to think this is a stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway. The specs for the LTV-3500 state that it supports 4k @ 60 Hz up to 120 inches. But it has a max screen size of 150". I read somewhere that above 120", it drops down to 2K resolution. I don't understand why. the 4K is determined by the number of pixels. Why would that drop if you scale the picture size up above 120"? Is it just that it gets blurrier and so they are not calling it 4k?


They answered that on their facebook. It's 4k to 120, and 2k when you bring it out to 150.


----------



## Brooks1

mrmoomin said:


> Just got notification my 2500 is scheduled to arrive Friday! I'll make sure to report back my experience. Also, if people have any specific questions, let me know!


Really excited for you to let us know. I'm holding off for more info....


----------



## Brooks1

heavyharmonies said:


> I am considering this unit, but have concerns.
> 
> 1. 3D is supposedly forthcoming, but as of yet there is no way to test it or see the adjustability/settings for it until after the campaign is over, and there are no returns allowed. 3D functionality is critical to me. I have initiated an inquiry with the campaign with some technical questions, e.g., will the 3D be full resolution HD, but have not received a response as of yet.
> 
> 2. I realize that the tech is different, but for example on the Xgimi Aura UST projector, at least one review mentioned that putting the device in 3D playback results in a different color push than when rendering 2D content, which is problematic, as there are not different color profiles/settings for 2D vs. 3D. I want to find out if the AWOL has similar issues.
> 
> 3. The subpar black levels have me concerned.
> 
> 4. There are not many reviews posted yet, either in written form or on Youtube, and those that are come off as commercials more than actual critical reviews. I realize that the purpose of these pre-launch promotions are to create hype more than actual technical critique, but the rampant cheerleading/enthusiasm still gives me pause, as there aren't any actual end-user or consumer reviews yet.


 I agree with this. I'm also concerned about this being such a new company that they won't have the ability to support it in the future. If it breaks will you be able to take it somewhere for a repair? I know that Samsung has a large enough network that they could fix their stuff. It's concerning that there is absolutely no return policy for the Indiegogo. If this is a solid product that they are sure of, then why not? I've been bitten before with supporting something new. 4K+ with a screen is a bit of a gamble with very little guarantees other than a tester one that was sent out and shared between two different reviewers.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

Brooks1 said:


> They answered that on their facebook. It's 4k to 120, and 2k when you bring it out to 150.


Not that I can see. They restate the specs but do not give an explanation or any technical reason.

I know it is 4K up to 120" and 2K at 150". 4K is defined as a resolution of 4096x2160. That does not change when you make the pixels larger or smaller when you scale the image. So, the question is, why does it drop down to 2K when the image size is scaled up 150". I do not see a technical reason unless it is just that the sharpness of the pixels degrades as they are scaled up in size.


----------



## mrmoomin

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> Not that I can see. They restate the specs but do not give an explanation or any technical reason.
> 
> I know it is 4K up to 120" and 2K at 150". 4K is defined as a resolution of 4096x2160. That does not change when you make the pixels larger or smaller when you scale the image. So, the question is, why does it drop down to 2K when the image size is scaled up 150". I do not see a technical reason unless it is just that the sharpness of the pixels degrades as they are scaled up in size.


I would guess it's the lens. Your ability to focus sharply lessens as you move outside of certain ranges. What they are saying is that from 120" to 150" sharpness is lost, but still has enough to qualify as 1080.


----------



## Netace44

mrmoomin said:


> Just got notification my 2500 is scheduled to arrive Friday! I'll make sure to report back my experience. Also, if people have any specific questions, let me know!


Awesome, I have a light controlled room, I am curious how the 2500 is for brightness, Looking forward to your feedback.


----------



## nas19

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> Not that I can see. They restate the specs but do not give an explanation or any technical reason.
> 
> I know it is 4K up to 120" and 2K at 150". 4K is defined as a resolution of 4096x2160. That does not change when you make the pixels larger or smaller when you scale the image. So, the question is, why does it drop down to 2K when the image size is scaled up 150". I do not see a technical reason unless it is just that the sharpness of the pixels degrades as they are scaled up in size.


I have the same doubt in my mind as well. It just doesn't make sense. Producing a bigger screen size doesn't mean the resolution is bumped down.



mrmoomin said:


> I would guess it's the lens. Your ability to focus sharply lessens as you move outside of certain ranges. What they are saying is that from 120" to 150" sharpness is lost, but still has enough to qualify as 1080.


You might be correct to an extent that the projector might not be able to focus properly if the size exceeds 120".

The maximum screen size of any projector is *ideally* limitless. It's only the practical factors like the light intensity and the focus range that limits the screen size. So if the projector cannot focus images greater than 120", then that should be it's maximum projection size. Not 150". I guess we need better explanation as to why this happens. Do they force it to a lower resolution to somehow maintain the brightness and disable the pixel shifting? I'm not sure.


----------



## amheck

Is the PJ even able to tell how big of an image its projecting? Isn't this just a factor of how far away from the wall it's installed?


----------



## Dave Harper

Brooks1 said:


> I agree with this. I'm also concerned about this being such a new company that they won't have the ability to support it in the future. If it breaks will you be able to take it somewhere for a repair? I know that Samsung has a large enough network that they could fix their stuff. It's concerning that there is absolutely no return policy for the Indiegogo. If this is a solid product that they are sure of, then why not? I've been bitten before with supporting something new. 4K+ with a screen is a bit of a gamble with very little guarantees *other than a tester one that was sent out and shared between two different reviewers*.


As I’ve said. It wasn’t a tester unit. It was pulled directly off their stack according to them. 

Also, the other reviewer got a different unit because projectorscreen.com still has theirs.


----------



## arsenalfc89

So I have the LT3500 and I have to say it is VERY impressive. I see why @ProjectionHead and @Dave Harper where hyping it up. The sharpness is very striking and how bright it is. Does it have the same black level as my Chroma, no but honestly it isn’t that bad. My Chroma black level measured at .018 while the AWOL measures at .08 after calibration. The black floor can decrease to about .05 if you bring down the laser but I choose not to because the high lumens makes everything pop in a natural and 3D way. But what really stands out is the ANSI contrast, it makes the AWOL look soooo good! I know the Chroma and T1 are tri-laser but I feel the AWOL really puts the triple laser to show. Some software updates are needed but nothing alarming and they have a full fledge CMS system which is great. Overall for the first time I’m actually not caring about the deepest blacks (again not that bad) because the image it puts out is that impressive. Now if AWOL updates to bring the blacks lower then this is probably one or if not the best projector out!


----------



## rooterha

WTF, so they sent the 3500? The only reason I didn't order it is because they told me April was the earliest... haha


----------



## amheck

Curious to hear further thoughts on Ps5/game performance from others, too. Is the delay OK for most games?


----------



## theregos

Hey everyone, forgot to post this here as promised! Here's my review of the 3500 https://global.techradar.com/en-ae/reviews/awol-ltv-3500-projector

If you've got any follow up questions just post on here and I'll try to answer what I can!


----------



## nas19

theregos said:


> Hey everyone, forgot to post this here as promised! Here's my review of the 3500 https://global.techradar.com/en-ae/reviews/awol-ltv-3500-projector
> 
> If you've got any follow up questions just post on here and I'll try to answer what I can!


Nice! Thanks for the review. Since you mentioned the not-so-great black levels in the LTV-3500, do you think it would be better in the lower LTV-2500 model since it isn't as bright as the former? Did you get a chance to experiment with that model? IF not, what's the general consensus for USTs? Does a lower brightness result in better blacks?

I'm trying to battle myself to take the plunge for the super early bird price, for the LTV-2500 model. I wouldn't be investing in a screen, atleast for now. Hence the blacks could be a problem.


----------



## theregos

rayappan said:


> Nice! Thanks for the review. Since you mentioned the not-so-great black levels in the LTV-3500, do you think it would be better in the lower LTV-2500 model since it isn't as bright as the former? Did you get a chance to experiment with that model? IF not, what's the general consensus for USTs? Does a lower brightness result in better blacks?
> 
> I'm trying to battle myself to take the plunge for the super early bird price, for the LTV-2500 model. I wouldn't be investing in a screen, atleast for now. Hence the blacks could be a problem.


Was only sent the 3500, so can't comment on the black levels for the 2500 model. I would say that for the best viewing experience, invest in a proper screen - whether it's from Awol or a third party. When we used the 3500 with a screen, the black levels were improved slightly, but colors definitely stood out more. I can only recommend the 3500 based on my personal experience - in theory USTs don't necessarily produce the most phenomenal blacks, just good enough to present an overall decent image. In a non-lit room you'll always get the best results, of course.


----------



## heavyharmonies

rooterha said:


> WTF, so they sent the 3500? The only reason I didn't order it is because they told me April was the earliest... haha


From the backer who initially posted the lengthy review posted up above, his explanation is as follows:



> I was sent an email that said because my order was one of the first 5 that was placed when the campaign opened I would get my order first as a thank you. I had researched and signed up for the vip status before the start and made my purchase first thing. I am sorry that you will have to wait. I have another friend that I convinced to purchase a package as well and he has to wait. But it will be worth it.


When asked, he also provided images of his unboxing and setup. I downloaded them for posterity and relink them here (in case he deletes them from Google Drive):




























































































Video:



https://cdsniper.com/projector/20220309_155938.mp4


----------



## heavyharmonies

theregos said:


> Hey everyone, forgot to post this here as promised! Here's my review of the 3500 https://global.techradar.com/en-ae/reviews/awol-ltv-3500-projector
> 
> If you've got any follow up questions just post on here and I'll try to answer what I can!


Just one minor quibble, but relevant to those buying through Indiegogo vs. review samples sent out: The packages on Indiegogo include a bundled Amazon Fire TV 4K stick; your review implies that a buyer would need to provide their own streaming source(s).


----------



## theregos

heavyharmonies said:


> Just one minor quibble, but relevant to those buying through Indiegogo vs. review samples sent out: The packages on Indiegogo include a bundled Amazon Fire TV 4K stick; your review implies that a buyer would need to provide their own streaming source(s).


A Fire TV stick was included in the review sample, but if you're in a region where it's not supported then you'll have to plug something else in, that's all.


----------



## Brooks1

It seems like this is priced practically the same as the LSP9 at this point ($3499 on Amazon currently), so this may be a bit overpriced if they are looking at 6k upon release. If you had to pick between the AWOL Vision 3500 and the LSP9, which would you pick and why?


----------



## amheck

Not seeing the lsp9 for that price, just the lsp7. However, the Samsumg has significantly lower lumen output than the AWOl 3500 model. May be a factor for some. I do share the same concerns on price, however, it seems fairly steep for such a new entrant, esp knowing manufacters like Bomaker can get in at about half of the price.


----------



## Brooks1

amheck said:


> Not seeing the lsp9 for that price, just the lsp7. However, the Samsumg has significantly lower lumen output than the AWOl 3500 model. May be a factor for some. I do share the same concerns on price, however, it seems fairly steep for such a new entrant, esp knowing manufacters like Bomaker can get in at about half of the price.


I think a rule here is no price talk or where to buy outside of the "deals" forum, but hopefully, this will be allowed since it's directly relevant to the conversation. Here is the link to the LSP9 for 3,400 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DL977M...trd-us-1351695113132276000-20&geniuslink=true. My concern is that, this has been compared directly to the LSP9, and it seems like the LSP9 is already dropping to be comparable to their 45% off sales price. The LSP9 also has twice the contrast... So with them comparable (sales price to normal LSP9 Price) - with the difference in price being no real factor at this point, which is the better buy. With money not being a factor at this point, which is better, and I am feeling like this is overpriced at the full price. I'm looking for someone to convince me to take the plunge! If I should.. hahah


----------



## mrmoomin

Scroll down. That price is for a used model.


----------



## amheck

yes, showing used for me, too.

And yes, I'm looking for the same push on this (or any) model, although I have some concerns. I want something semi-budget friendly but also want to make sure it suits my use case, good. Windows, gaming, 120", etc

Seeing some good user reviews, though, is making it easier to support this model


----------



## Brooks1

mrmoomin said:


> Scroll down. That price is for a used model.


Oh, okay I missed that. Thanks


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

FYI...
Price on indiegogo.com for the LTV-3500 is going up Friday March 11th at 6:00pm EST.


----------



## mrmoomin

Alright, had a night with the LTV-2500, and here are my initial thoughts.

This thing works pretty great in a room with a small amount of ambient light (blinds closed, but still some sunlight coming through). But it really shines at night, when you can get things much darker. I'm currently using it in a room with grey walls, and a white ceiling, projecting directly onto the wall - so reflected light from the projector itself will add some ambient light. Last night we watched Turning Red, and I had absolutely no complaints in the bright scenes. If you were to judge this projector on it's bright scenes alone, it's 10/10. Absolutely gorgeous. 

In the dark scenes, you'll notice the black floor, but that's to be expected, and I didn't mind it. I imagine it'll be even better when I can move it to the light treated room it'll eventually live in. I do wonder if the laser can be dimmed even more in very dark scenes, though.

I also have to say, the motion on this is excellent, and you don't need any MEMC just to get watchable 24 fps content. 

Gaming feels great. Granted, I don't really play online, so can't speak to that, but I was able to play Cuphead without any noticeable problem. The only difficulty I've had with gaming is adapting to a 110 inch image. You spend so much time looking at details, you forget to actually dodge!

There is a little bit of fan noise and whine from the projector, but I only hear it when the room is silent.

The last thing I want to touch on will be the most subjective - Rainbow Effect. To set a baseline, I had an LSP7T for a little while, and I saw enough rainbows to need to return it. The truth is, there are rainbows on this projector, BUT, they are much briefer. On the LSP7T I saw long arcing rainbows, but on the LTV-2500, they are more brief flashes. Even better, they mostly come up in high contrast, white areas, which means they mostly come up in subtitles and menu items. I maybe saw one Rainbow during Turning Red last night, and even then, it was so fleeting that I couldn't be sure. In B&W footage the likelyhood of Rainbows goes up for sure, but even then I only see them on rare occasion. I watched a B&W clip that I also watched on the LSP7T and it was a night and day difference. Even better, I can almost feel my brain adjusting to the rainbows, and this morning I saw even less than I saw yesterday. I'll need to watch again tonight to back that claim up, as rainbows come out more in high contrast scenes for me, and the darkness will add to that. Overall, I don't feel like the RBE is a deal breaker for me, and it sounds like this wont even be a problem for most people, unless you're like me and highly sensitive. I'll probably need to give it a few weeks just to see how my feelings and the effect develops over time. With no returns, my only back up would be to sell, and that feels unlikely.

To summarize: If you're looking for a projector you can use in a light controlled room, low to possibly no RBE, bright scenes that are near perfect (at least to my eyes), and that you can also game on - at 2,200, this seems like a relative steal to me! Even seeing that it just went up to 2,400 still seems like a great deal. If anybody has any specific questions, let me know!


----------



## Netace44

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve actually got a sample unit from them and had a little time to play with it last week. I’ve got a meeting with them today to go over some details and will provide some insight into it here shortly.


Hi Brian,

Awolvision told me on FB that you may have a 2500 review coming, is this accurate?

I just bought it yesterday and was looking for a decent review.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Netace44 said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> Awolvision told me on FB that you may have a 2500 review coming, is this accurate?
> 
> I just bought it yesterday and was looking for a decent review.


It is! We have the draft written and expected to publish shortly. Been real tied up getting ready for the UST Showcase next week. 

_*Spoiler Alert*_: It's a less bright version of the LTV-3500


----------



## Jason_Fox

ProjectionHead said:


> It is! We have the draft written and expected to publish shortly. Been real tied up getting ready for the UST Showcase next week.
> 
> _*Spoiler Alert*_: It's a less bright version of the LTV-3500


You're killing me, Smalls!

Trying to decide between the LTV-2500 and the P2 since it's now on sale.


----------



## amheck

Crap, Thanks for the tip in the p2. I had alerts set up on slickdeals but I guess it didn't trigger. I see buydig has a 4 year warranty with it too.

Is the Awol worth a 700 premium?


----------



## ProjectionHead

amheck said:


> Crap, Thanks for the tip in the p2. I had alerts set up on slickdeals but I guess it didn't trigger. I see buydig has a 4 year warranty with it too.
> 
> Is the Awol worth a 700 premium?


P2 is on sale for another week+, there is even ‘one place’ (DM me for details) offering an extra $100 off the sale price.
Awol is triple laser vs the single laser of the p2, so it will have better colors and no/less rainbows due to lack of color wheel.
P2 at regular price makes it less competitive with triple laser units like the AWOL or Hisense PX1-Pro, but at the sale price the P2 is a real compelling deal.


----------



## MGF07

Hi All,

I’m considering the AWOL projector for a game room which has one window with plantation shutters… so not completely light controlled. Also, it’s open to hallways, etc. My goals is a big screen for sport watching and movies…yes, I know, completely opposite characteristics. I’m a big fan of deep blacks I have on my plasma and OLED, which I know I wouldn’t get with AWOL, but I’m nervous about how low the black levels are even compared to other projectors. So here are my questions:

1) Given my goals, is the AWOL projector better than others in it’s class? Price less $6,500. If not, what other projectors do you think I should be looking at?

2) compared to other projectors in the AWOL class, are the black level shortfalls noticeable and/or distracting in movies? Does anyone feel AWOL can really make adjustments in the firmware to improve the black levels?

3) I’ve seen some discussion about a new chip from TI for UTS projectors that has been delayed because of supply chain issues. Where would this new chip improve projector performance? Faster refresh rates… 240hz? Better blacks? Reduced RBE? Etc…

Thanks,
Marcus


----------



## MGF07

MGF07 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I’m considering the AWOL projector for a game room which has one window with plantation shutters… so not completely light controlled. Also, it’s open to hallways, etc. My goals is a big screen for sport watching and movies…yes, I know, completely opposite characteristics. I’m a big fan of deep blacks I have on my plasma and OLED, which I know I wouldn’t get with AWOL, but I’m nervous about how low the black levels are even compared to other projectors. So here are my questions:
> 
> 1) Given my goals, is the AWOL projector better than others in it’s class? Price less $6,500. If not, what other projectors do you think I should be looking at?
> 
> 2) compared to other projectors in the AWOL class, are the black level shortfalls noticeable and/or distracting in movies? Does anyone feel AWOL can really make adjustments in the firmware to improve the black levels?
> 
> 3) I’ve seen some discussion about a new chip from TI for UTS projectors that has been delayed because of supply chain issues. Where would this new chip improve projector performance? Faster refresh rates… 240hz? Better blacks? Reduced RBE? Etc…
> 
> Thanks,
> Marcus


sorry, forgot …

4) Does anyone have experience and thoughts regarding the AWOL cinematic ALR screen? The package deal on indiegogo is really tempting, but I don’t want to compromise picture quality if the screen is crap.

5) Can the laser brightness be adjusted based on the ambient light conditions? Or better yet a sensor on the machine that adjust the brightness automatically?


----------



## chaserr

Brooks1 said:


> I think a rule here is no price talk or where to buy outside of the "deals" forum, but hopefully, this will be allowed since it's directly relevant to the conversation. Here is the link to the LSP9 for 3,400 on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DL977M...trd-us-1351695113132276000-20&geniuslink=true. My concern is that, this has been compared directly to the LSP9, and it seems like the LSP9 is already dropping to be comparable to their 45% off sales price. The LSP9 also has twice the contrast... So with them comparable (sales price to normal LSP9 Price) - with the difference in price being no real factor at this point, which is the better buy. With money not being a factor at this point, which is better, and I am feeling like this is overpriced at the full price. I'm looking for someone to convince me to take the plunge! If I should.. hahah


I can see the appeal as the LSP9 is "Open-Box", no telling if its actually used or new, I've seen this "Open-Box" classification used for new inventory that is a model year old because of pricing agreements with the manufacturer and dealer. Not saying its a fair apples to apples, but not saying its not either and considering dollars out of pocket are negligible considering the amazon price. I would love more data on the Samsung LSP9T vs Awol LTV-3500 and even a shoot-out... from first glance it appears that the below are the differences

*Samsung LSP9T
Pro:*
.67 Chip
HDMI 2.1
Sequential Contrast 2267:1
19:1 Throw Ratio
4k @ 120hz
4k @ 130"
Black Level of .08cd/m
Black Level of ??? cd/m (unknown, but based on reviews suspected to be better than LTV-3500)
*Con:*
50ms input lag
106% BT2020 (still super good)
2800 Lumens
No 3D Support
No Support for 50hz for TV Content

*Awol LTV-3500
Pro:*
30ms input lag
107% BT2020
3500 Lumens
Awol Customer Service says "The LTV-3500 outperforms the LSP9T in brightness, picture quality, and laser speckle."
*Con:*
.47 Chip
HDMI 2.0 vs 2.1
Sequential Contrast 1120:1
25:1 Throw Ratio
4k @ 60hz
4k @ 120"
Black Level of .08cd/m
No 3D Support (Claimed to be released in Summer 22)
Unknown Support for 50hz for TV Content

Notes:
1. Its hard to just put a pros/cons list as each item should be weighted, but that would take more time than my 2 year old wants me to do.
2. If Awol had put a .67" chip that supported [email protected] then I think it would be near perfect, seems like a bummer that they didn't but still a great offering.

UNKNOWNS:
How well does the LSP9T take advantage of the .67" chip?
Posted specs vs professional side-by-side interpretation, id probably side with a non-biased professional, so that would be awesome to get.
Its actually a pretty hard choice, in my opinion as each has big tradeoffs that bring both positives and negatives compared to the other.
How can the LTV-3500 be better in terms of picture quality with the smaller chip...? wondering if they are talking about color space?

PS let me know if i got any of my data wrong or if there is other data I need to add.

*Give your opinion of where you would fall*


----------



## heavyharmonies

Re: Samsung LSP9T:

Sadly no 3D support (at least per the product page on the Samsung website), so a complete nonstarter for some of us.


----------



## chaserr

heavyharmonies said:


> Re: Samsung LSP9T:
> 
> Sadly no 3D support (at least per the product page on the Samsung website), so a complete nonstarter for some of us.


Fair point, I updated the comparison with both not currently having 3D support but future support on the Awol.


----------



## EagerKeen

chaserr said:


> I can see the appeal as the LSP9 is "Open-Box", no telling if its actually used or new, I've seen this "Open-Box" classification used for new inventory that is a model year old because of pricing agreements with the manufacturer and dealer. Not saying its a fair apples to apples, but not saying its not either and considering dollars out of pocket are negligible considering the amazon price. I would love more data on the Samsung LSP9T vs Awol LTV-3500 and even a shoot-out... from first glance it appears that the below are the differences
> 
> *Samsung LSP9T
> Pro:*
> .67 Chip
> HDMI 2.1
> Sequential Contrast 2267:1
> 19:1 Throw Ratio
> 4k @ 120hz
> 4k @ 130"
> Black Level of .08cd/m
> Black Level of ??? cd/m (unknown, but based on reviews suspected to be better than LTV-3500)
> *Con:*
> 50ms input lag
> 106% BT2020 (still super good)
> 2800 Lumens
> No 3D Support
> 
> *Awol LTV-3500
> Pro:*
> 30ms input lag
> 107% BT2020
> 3500 Lumens
> *Con:*
> .47 Chip
> HDMI 2.0 vs 2.1
> Sequential Contrast 1120:1
> 25:1 Throw Ratio
> 4k @ 60hz
> 4k @ 120"
> Black Level of .08cd/m
> No 3D Support (future expected to be added on)
> 
> Notes:
> 1. Its hard to just put a pros/cons list as each item should be weighted, but that would take more time than my 2 year old wants me to do.
> 2. If Awol had put a .67" chip that supported [email protected] then I think it would be near perfect, seems like a bummer that they didn't but still a great offering.
> 
> UNKNOWNS:
> How well does the LSP9T take advantage of the .67" chip?
> Posted specs vs professional side-by-side interpretation, id probably side with a non-biased professional, so that would be awesome to get.
> Its actually a pretty hard choice, in my opinion as each has big tradeoffs that bring both positives and negatives compared to the other.
> 
> PS let me know if i got any of my data wrong or if there is other data I need to add.
> 
> *Give your opinion of where you would fall*


Another con for the LSP9T: doesn‘t support 50Hz for TV content.


----------



## diggumsmax

Brooks1 said:


> I agree with this. I'm also concerned about this being such a new company that they won't have the ability to support it in the future. If it breaks will you be able to take it somewhere for a repair? I know that Samsung has a large enough network that they could fix their stuff. It's concerning that there is absolutely no return policy for the Indiegogo. If this is a solid product that they are sure of, then why not? I've been bitten before with supporting something new. 4K+ with a screen is a bit of a gamble with very little guarantees other than a tester one that was sent out and shared between two different reviewers.


While I get your worries about them being new, I was around in the late 90:s when Samsung was new and considered a cheap brand compared to other TV manufacturers. I had issues with the first ever 1080i CRT HDTV that I owned (and the last) but it was supported. The projector sounds promising but there are still obvious concern.

First, the early bird price vs what it will be eventually. Second, if it starts off with bad or negative reviews, that is not good for obvious reasons. If it gets glowing reviews, although it really sounds like black levels will be an issue, then more people will order making support more "secure" for lack of a better term.

I remember in 2014/2015 some company went out of business that sold smart thermostats. When they closed shop their rheostats where completely non usable, even if you were standing in front of it. Apparently the thermostats had to have a connection to their servers or they simply would not work. when the company turned off the servers, not even as dumb thermostats as that's how they coded it. An extreme example, but if the 3500 is plagued by problems that may or may not ever be fixed based on the success of an unknown brand. There will also be the Avsforums feedback which has decided more then a few purchases I have made in the past.

Also, and I could be wrong but there are no projectors on the market right now that support Dolby Vision. How a new company is going to get that done, without bribing Dolby would say that alone is incredibly impressive but I'm willing to be everyone on here has been burnt on a promised feature being added in an update before that never came. The entire thing about 120 inches vs 1150 makes me think they would have been better off setting the limit to 120"s. I read a review that said the corners where very noticably out of focus at 150 inches.

It's a toss up. If you don't preorder, and when prices go to normal but it's getting awesome reviews you will be kicking yourself for not getting the early bird price. If you do pre-order and it's plagued by issues then you will not be very happy about it

I will say based of past experiences I trust projectorscreen .com. they would not be doing this unless they thought it was going to be a great UST PJ. With that said, nobody is right all the time.

Also, they have 2 UST screens listed on their site. One 100 to 120 lectangular screen and a 100 inch fresnel PET screen that says it's rollable, at least for shipping. I thought fresnel was hard screen only, which made shipping a nightmare. I guess they found out to make rollable ones but I wonder how they compare to hard screen fresnel.it also lists it has worse ALR but I guess the 1.1 gain makes up for that. Wondering how it compares in bright and dark viewing compared to a mid tier lectangular UST screen


----------



## heavyharmonies

If anyone is interested in reading the user manual, I've uploaded it. Creation date of March 6, 2022. Definitely more akin to what we see as manuals for the U.S. retail market vs. those for China-only devices:



https://cdsniper.com/blu-ray/AWOL_usermanual.pdf



And here is the image they sent me when I inquired as to the exact positioning of the feet with respect to the overall dimensions, so I could predict how large of a surface I would need to place the projector on and be stable. I already brought to their attention that they appear to have items 21 and 22 reversed in the legend:


----------



## ProjectionHead

diggumsmax said:


> I will say based of past experiences I trust projectorscreen .com. they would not be doing this unless they thought it was going to be a great UST PJ. With that said, nobody is right all the time.


We think the projectors themselves are real strong performers and have enough confidence in the company & people behind it to be one of their channel launch partners at the end of the indiegogo.
When you back a project via Indiegogo you are taking a big risk, but reap the reward of a crazy low price. When you end up buying through a legitimate and authorized sales channel your risk is mitigated assuming the dealer stands behind what they sell.
That being said, to @diggumsmax 's point - nobody (including me) is right all of the time; let's hope for my reputation's sake that this isn't one of those _*(very rare)*_ times


----------



## ProjectionHead

I updated our review to include measurements of the LTV-2500 on this post here: AWOL Vision - New UST Projector Brand Launching. First...


----------



## ufokillerz

i think my ltv 3500 shipped! i'm not expecting anything else from DHL, so i think its the awol, i'm indiegogo backer #9


----------



## Netace44

ufokillerz said:


> i think my ltv 3500 shipped! i'm not expecting anything else from DHL, so i think its the awol, i'm indiegogo backer #9


I am in Canada, I just got my tracking number this morning. Looking forward to it.


----------



## ufokillerz

Netace44 said:


> I am in Canada, I just got my tracking number this morning. Looking forward to it.


lol they replied saying they didn't ship to me yet... wonder what i have coming from dhl then.


----------



## arsenalfc89

I did a quick contrast check with and without the high dynamic laser option. So native contrast hovers around 1000:1 and with high dynamic laser on it’s around 3000:1 (blacks get as low as .03). Right now the dynamic laser option does change the white balance but AWOL have said they are scheduled for an update in April that fixes that.


----------



## lordvader

arsenalfc89 said:


> I did a quick contrast check with and without the high dynamic laser option. So native contrast hovers around 1000:1 and with high dynamic laser on it’s around 3000:1 (blacks get as low as .03). Right now the dynamic laser option does change the white balance but AWOL have said they are scheduled for an update in April that fixes that.


Can this be verified? The only reason I held back from this projector was the contrast ratio. 

Sent from my M2101K7AG using Tapatalk


----------



## MGF07

arsenalfc89 said:


> I did a quick contrast check with and without the high dynamic laser option. So native contrast hovers around 1000:1 and with high dynamic laser on it’s around 3000:1 (blacks get as low as .03). Right now the dynamic laser option does change the white balance but AWOL have said they are scheduled for an update in April that fixes that.


I don’t recall high dynamic laser ever being a setting on the AWOL. Just to be clear, we’re not talking the ANSI contrast, correct? 

If blacks can go down to 0.03 (which is close to the C2) then why didn’t @ProjectionHead quote that in the review versus the 1120:1 native contrast? Did it screw up the PQ too bad because of the white balance? Seriously, this is a really big deal IMO and would definitely move me and I’m sure quite few others off the fence between other options.

Where is it quoted that AWOL has a fix in-work to enable this high dynamic laser without impacting white balance?


----------



## arsenalfc89

MGF07 said:


> I don’t recall high dynamic laser ever being a setting on the AWOL. Just to be clear, we’re not talking the ANSI contrast, correct?
> 
> If blacks can go down to 0.03 (which is close to the C2) then why didn’t @ProjectionHead quote that in the review versus the 1120:1 native contrast? Did it screw up the PQ too bad because of the white balance? Seriously, this is a really big deal IMO and would definitely move me and I’m sure quite few others off the fence between other options.
> 
> Where is it quoted that AWOL has a fix in-work to enable this high dynamic laser without impacting white balance?


Don’t think the blacks can match up to the C2 and keep in mind this is only on/off contrast. I have to take measurements of the full ADL which to me is even more important. But turning it on does make a noticeable difference. If you look at the Bomaker thread about turning on their high dynamic laser it will give you an idea of the impact. What the Hisense and AWOL have shown me is there is more to PQ than contrast specs. Attached is an email I received from them. The update is scheduled for April.


----------



## arsenalfc89

lordvader said:


> Can this be verified? The only reason I held back from this projector was the contrast ratio.
> 
> Sent from my M2101K7AG using Tapatalk


I can post screenshots later if I have time (Colourspace and Chromapure both show the same numbers plus/minus a few digits). Again keep in mind this is on/off contrast and I haven’t measured the ADL contrast in other areas.


----------



## amheck

have there been any other thoughts on the AWOL 120" screen that comes in their Indiegogo package? I think its a grand, give or take, and I know Elite makes one in that pricerange, too. Thinking about backing the Indeigogo campaign this week and just want to try to get the best screen in that price range.


----------



## MGF07

amheck said:


> have there been any other thoughts on the AWOL 120" screen that comes in their Indiegogo package? I think its a grand, give or take, and I know Elite makes one in that pricerange, too. Thinking about backing the Indeigogo campaign this week and just want to try to get the best screen in that price range.


I’ll second that request.


----------



## Brooks1

I am thinking about backing it still too…. I still have a lot of reservations about backing this company though. The Hisense PX1-Pro seems like a little better of a projector and bet - considering that they are known and have solid support, along with the 2 year warranty. I’m just not convinced that the AWOL will be able to make things right/repair problems, etc.


----------



## mrmoomin

Just wanted to pop in with an update after a week of owning the LTV 2500. One, AWOL has been very responsive to me with any and all questions I have. Can't speak to what they'll be like after the Indiegogo is done, but I see every indication they strive to be known for customer service. Two, experiencing a wider range of content, I do see more rainbows than I initially hoped. I seem to be VERY susceptible to them as I've had a bunch of people over to watch stuff, and I'm the only one who has seen them. Sadly, despite being completely happy otherwise, I am going the route of selling my LTV 2500. I posted it in the classifieds forum if anybody is interested.

Overall I'd say, if you've seen rainbows before, and are hoping this is THE ONE, you're probably best buying something with a return policy. If you don't know if you see them, you're probably fine, but consider this your heads up. Otherwise, very happy with it, and would 100% be keeping this if it wasn't for my dumb eyes.


----------



## heavyharmonies

I thought the tri-laser projectors weren't as suscepitble to rainbows as single laser. Not the case?


----------



## mrmoomin

heavyharmonies said:


> I thought the tri-laser projectors weren't as suscepitble to rainbows as single laser. Not the case?


That is correct, and consistent with my findings. There are less, and they are shorter. But the reality is some people will still see them, especially in high contrast scenes. The likelyhood and severity goes down, but it's not zero. Some people like me are just born lucky. Depending on what I watch, I may never see them, but then I turn on a high contrast black and white movie, and there they are. I'm a film history buff, so sadly wasn't something I felt I could live with long term.


----------



## nicoara69

Hello. On March 18, I also ordered the LTV-3500. I'm very curious what this projector, especially because it's the first UST for me. I currently have an EPSON TW6100.
When someone in this group receives the projector, please send us your impressions. All the best.


----------



## jorgemurillo2012

T1 vs LTV-3500 That's the main question for me...what's better did @ProjectionHead got too do a vs with it or the C2? Really curious on the outcome


----------



## ProjectionHead

jorgemurillo2012 said:


> T1 vs LTV-3500 That's the main question for me...what's better did @ProjectionHead got too do a vs with it or the C2? Really curious on the outcome


Never seen a C2 and still waiting for a replacement on my DOA T1


----------



## emathew

Does anyone receive LTV 2500 with their cinematic screen? Please share some images videos?

Thanks


----------



## jorgemurillo2012

ProjectionHead said:


> Never seen a C2 and still waiting for a replacement on my DOA T1


Just saw the video of all the UST I liked the JMGO U2 and the LVT3500 HISENSE L9 looks really good too... hopefully if you ever get the T1 can compare it too the ltv-3500 great video btw thank you for making it happened looked fun


----------



## amheck

Anyone else undecided on the AWOL 3500 vs the hisense l9? With the 120" screen, the hisense on sale is carrying about a $1200-$1300 premium. I have some windows in my room (5 plus a glass door to be exact) so the higher output on the AWOL seems good and I really wanted to stay max'd at $4k with the screen. So I don't even know that L9 is in play as its a good bit more. But lack of return and the unknown of a new company is giving me pause. But it sure would be nice to order the L9 and have it here in a couple days, too.


----------



## Brooks1

amheck said:


> Anyone else undecided on the AWOL 3500 vs the hisense l9? With the 120" screen, the hisense on sale is carrying about a $1200-$1300 premium. I have some windows in my room (5 plus a glass door to be exact) so the higher output on the AWOL seems good and I really wanted to stay max'd at $4k with the screen. So I don't even know that L9 is in play as its a good bit more. But lack of return and the unknown of a new company is giving me pause. But it sure would be nice to order the L9 and have it here in a couple days, too.


I’m right there with you. The reviews on the AWOL are great, many people have received one, in the Showcase here the AWOL was a favorite… so far everything about it seems better and with the Indigogo price you are getting a 6k projector + a 1400 screen for 4,200…. But, there is a risk here. How will their future support be? Do they have the ability to repair things…. To get this crazy good price there will be risk. I think I’m going to do it but I’m struggling with the Hinsense too, great company with a 2 year warranty.

I. really want to know about the black levels as I’m a huge horror fan, so I watch a lot of dark stuff. I head somewhere about a high contrast option coming out in Feb, but not sure about that.


----------



## arsenalfc89

amheck said:


> Anyone else undecided on the AWOL 3500 vs the hisense l9? With the 120" screen, the hisense on sale is carrying about a $1200-$1300 premium. I have some windows in my room (5 plus a glass door to be exact) so the higher output on the AWOL seems good and I really wanted to stay max'd at $4k with the screen. So I don't even know that L9 is in play as its a good bit more. But lack of return and the unknown of a new company is giving me pause. But it sure would be nice to order the L9 and have it here in a couple days, too.


L9 if you’re worried about the return. Honestly both are very similar in PQ. AWOL if you want to save and want better HDR.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brooks1 said:


> I’m right there with you. The reviews on the AWOL are great, many people have received one, in the Showcase here the AWOL was a favorite… so far everything about it seems better and with the Indigogo price you are getting a 6k projector + a 1400 screen for 4,200…. But, there is a risk here. How will their future support be? Do they have the ability to repair things…. To get this crazy good price there will be risk. I think I’m going to do it but I’m struggling with the Hinsense too, great company with a 2 year warranty.
> 
> I. really want to know about the black levels as I’m a huge horror fan, so I watch a lot of dark stuff. I head somewhere about a high contrast option coming out in Feb, but not sure about that.


I’m a fan of thriller and horror movies as well. If you really want the best blacks get a C2 or Benq 7050i. I too I’m a stickler for good blacks but I’ve accepted these protectors aren’t OLED so my logical thinking was then focus on the projector with excellent PQ. The black level are average but if you want even better just turn on high dynamic in the setting.


----------



## lattiboy

Anybody have an update on the rift between AWOL and Hisense? That seemed like a not ideal situation for their future. “Don’t fight with your OEM” is kinda a golden rule.


----------



## AWOLVision

lattiboy said:


> Anybody have an update on the rift between AWOL and Hisense? That seemed like a not ideal situation for their future. “Don’t fight with your OEM” is kinda a golden rule.


Hi All, AWOL Vision here, wanted to address anyone's concerns regarding these false rumors.

We are not in breach of contract with any companies we do business with, our manufacturers, suppliers or engineering firms. We have very strong relationships with all our supply chain partners including our OEM that is very happy to see we've just passed over the $800,000 threshold in just a few weeks. We also have our own technical team to provide warranty and service to all our backers. 

We designed our own ID, MD and coded our own android software with many patents. Our team put in an abundance of resources to develop the LTV-3500 and LTV-2500 as amazing products and provide great features such as HDR 10+, motorized lens, Dolby Atmos, eARC and the upcoming 3D feature that many of our competitors don’t have. We own the intellectual property rights for both models. We have the sole discretion to determine product pricing, sales and service. 

We do our business honestly and do not overstate the specs, all the Indiegogo specs are true and valid.

Sometimes when products become respected as best in class, people like to say inaccurate information to slow their progress. We have not been notified by any of our third-party associates that we are in breach of any contract.

We've been told that these rumors have been started by a few sales people at a competitive company, please keep in mind that a lot of these OEMs have separate companies based in the US that strictly concentrate on sales. Any agreements that AWOL Vision has is directly with the OEM that manufacturers the actual product.

Thanks to everyone who has interest in our products, if you have any questions or need clarification you can respond to us on this thread or contact us directly.


----------



## arsenalfc89

AWOLVision said:


> Hi All, AWOL Vision here, wanted to address anyone's concerns regarding these false rumors.
> 
> We are not in breach of contract with any companies we do business with, our manufacturers, suppliers or engineering firms. We have very strong relationships with all our supply chain partners including our OEM that is very happy to see we've just passed over the $800,000 threshold in just a few weeks. We also have our own technical team to provide warranty and service to all our backers.
> 
> We designed our own ID, MD and coded our own android software with many patents. Our team put in an abundance of resources to develop the LTV-3500 and LTV-2500 as amazing products and provide great features such as HDR 10+, motorized lens, Dolby Atmos, eARC and the upcoming 3D feature that many of our competitors don’t have. We own the intellectual property rights for both models. We have the sole discretion to determine product pricing, sales and service.
> 
> We do our business honestly and do not overstate the specs, all the Indiegogo specs are true and valid.
> 
> Sometimes when products become respected as best in class, people like to say inaccurate information to slow their progress. We have not been notified by any of our third-party associates that we are in breach of any contract.
> 
> We've been told that these rumors have been started by a few sales people at a competitive company, please keep in mind that a lot of these OEMs have separate companies based in the US that strictly concentrate on sales. Any agreements that AWOL Vision has is directly with the OEM that manufacturers the actual product.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has interest in our products, if you have any questions or need clarification you can respond to us on this thread or contact us directly.


I will say this, my interaction with the AWOL service caught be by surprise about how professional and honest so far they’ve been. Lumagen customer service is probably the best I’ve ever seen and AWOL so far is right up there.


----------



## Brooks1

amheck said:


> have there been any other thoughts on the AWOL 120" screen that comes in their Indiegogo package? I think its a grand, give or take, and I know Elite makes one in that pricerange, too. Thinking about backing the Indeigogo campaign this week and just want to try to get the best screen in that price range.


What did you decide to do and what was your final decision based on?


----------



## amheck

I keep waiting for the epiphany to come....to tell me what to do. I have a feeling I'm just going to have to make the leap. I guess we have another week right for the AWOL? Most likely its going to be the AWOL 3500 as I just can't see dropping the cash for the L9 even at the sale price unfortunately.

The AWOL group seems nice and responsive (although they should be during this phase) and ProjectionHead is behind them somewhat so fingers crossed the money saved will be worth it. I just hope waiting hasn't pushed the delivery date back by months. I'm VIP so hopefully that'll help. I will probably just go with the bundled screen as I don't have any info to sway either way.

What about you?


----------



## Brooks1

amheck said:


> I keep waiting for the epiphany to come....to tell me what to do. I have a feeling I'm just going to have to make the leap. I guess we have another week right for the AWOL? Most likely its going to be the AWOL 3500 as I just can't see dropping the cash for the L9 even at the sale price unfortunately.
> 
> The AWOL group seems nice and responsive (although they should be during this phase) and ProjectionHead is behind them somewhat so fingers crossed the money saved will be worth it. I just hope waiting hasn't pushed the delivery date back by months. I'm VIP so hopefully that'll help. I will probably just go with the bundled screen as I don't have any info to sway either way.
> 
> What about you?


So right now I'm 75% going to buy the 3500 /w screen before Next Friday. I have the VIP access so it's still at the 4,200 price for me. I did send them a private message about the black levels. They responded that their projector has great ANSI for contrast in light and dark content, that the laser is very bright so it handles dark scenes well and the big thing which is "We have a few updates coming out in the near future that will help with black levels. In April we expect to fix the issue with high dynamic laser setting (which works except the white balance gets thrown off to a green tint) which will increase the contrast. In Summer 2022 we an update planned to enhance the laser engine's dynamic contrast, HDR and Dolby Vision to all help increase the black floor. Also pairing the AWOL with our Cinematic ALR screen will increase the contrast as our screens are high contrast screens." I wonder what that contrast will be increased to? If they have an update planned that can do all that, this will probably be a superior projector. I just wish it was 120hz and not 60. If they had that at 120hz at 4k it would be the perfect projector. As far as I know, the L9 is the only one that has this and they are comparatively priced at the non-indigogo price. This makes me sort of question the full price - but I am new to this and just researching, this will be my first projector. Obviously I have a lot to consider and learn here. @AWOLVision Please feel free to talk about any of this.


----------



## MGF07

Brooks1 said:


> So right now I'm 75% going to buy the 3500 /w screen before Next Friday. I have the VIP access so it's still at the 4,200 price for me. I did send them a private message about the black levels. They responded that their projector has great ANSI for contrast in light and dark content, that the laser is very bright so it handles dark scenes well and the big thing which is "We have a few updates coming out in the near future that will help with black levels. In April we expect to fix the issue with high dynamic laser setting (which works except the white balance gets thrown off to a green tint) which will increase the contrast. In Summer 2022 we an update planned to enhance the laser engine's dynamic contrast, HDR and Dolby Vision to all help increase the black floor. Also pairing the AWOL with our Cinematic ALR screen will increase the contrast as our screens are high contrast screens." I wonder what that contrast will be increased to? If they have an update planned that can do all that, this will probably be a superior projector.


I’m right there with y’all it seems this projector still has a lot of growth left in it. The high dynamic laser setting may help contrast but as @arsenalfc89 has said that won’t really help the black floor. For me, anything from the Chinese makes me cringe based on their corporate espionage and their willingness to steal personal data. So the PX1, L9, T1, and C2 while interesting, especially the T1 for me, is like pulling teeth. I’m also not convinced the PQ is better just because the blacks are really good. For probably 90% or more of the content watched is not going ti have a full screen with a lot of dark content. Given the T1/C2 would probably do better in that scenario.



Brooks1 said:


> I just wish it was 120hz and not 60. If they had that at 120hz at 4k it would be the perfect projector.


Me too, but what is it really going to matter for? Again I think it comes down to the percentage of the time where the content that could utilize this capability is actually on the screen.


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## MGF07

Also, I got an email back saying that AWOL projectors do have a 2 year warranty if purchased under the indiegogo campaign.


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## AWOLVision

Brooks1 said:


> So right now I'm 75% going to buy the 3500 /w screen before Next Friday. I have the VIP access so it's still at the 4,200 price for me. I did send them a private message about the black levels. They responded that their projector has great ANSI for contrast in light and dark content, that the laser is very bright so it handles dark scenes well and the big thing which is "We have a few updates coming out in the near future that will help with black levels. In April we expect to fix the issue with high dynamic laser setting (which works except the white balance gets thrown off to a green tint) which will increase the contrast. In Summer 2022 we an update planned to enhance the laser engine's dynamic contrast, HDR and Dolby Vision to all help increase the black floor. Also pairing the AWOL with our Cinematic ALR screen will increase the contrast as our screens are high contrast screens." I wonder what that contrast will be increased to? If they have an update planned that can do all that, this will probably be a superior projector. I just wish it was 120hz and not 60. If they had that at 120hz at 4k it would be the perfect projector. As far as I know, the L9 is the only one that has this and they are comparatively priced at the non-indigogo price. This makes me sort of question the full price - but I am new to this and just researching, this will be my first projector. Obviously I have a lot to consider and learn here. @AWOLVision Please feel free to talk about any of this.


Thank you @Brooks1 and @amheck for your interest. We understand there are many projectors out there all offering different advantages and it is hard to make a decision. However, we feel our advantages are brightness, color accuracy, color range, and speckle reduction. It's important to note that the black level is not the only factor that makes an amazing picture quality. All our components working together make a great picture quality even when there are deep black scenes. We are continuing to update our device based on customer feedback - our engineers are working on making improvements.

Our backers who have received both the LTV-2500 and LTV-3500 have been very happy with their purchase. 

FYI, the L9 is also 60hz at 4K according to their website.


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## arsenalfc89

Something that is worth paying attention to is the fact that this projector is very bright and at the same time very accurate picture wise. You see most projectors as they get brighter looses accuracy so more or less you’re forced to have a dimmer picture. The benefit about this AWOL is with the accurate brightness mixed with the average black level allows for an excellent dynamic picture. It allows you to see details some other projectors can’t replicate. A lot of users have an ALR screen which by nature cuts down the brightness so the more headroom you have the better dynamic range you’ll be able to witness. Something that is also worth noting is what @Dave Harper said in his review (projectorscreen.com), also same man that found the HDFURY hack. Currently the PQ is jaw dropping but as he said if AWOL improves even further on the contrast maybe via the dynamic contrast then this projector will have no equal. I may sound like a fanboy but if you see my post history I’m the opposite (you can also see the pictures I posted of the AWOL in another thread). I buy a lot of projectors to compare in person and this AWOL unit has impressed me the most same with the Benq 7050i. I still say if you want very deep blacks then T1, C2, or Chroma although you will have to sacrifice on shadow detail, dynamic range, and to an extent PQ (still good projectors).


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## amheck

I haven't paid much attention to the HDFURY although I've seen it mentioned pretty often lately since I've been looking at projectors. Does the AWOL benefits from using one of these devices?


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## lattiboy

AWOLVision said:


> Hi All, AWOL Vision here, wanted to address anyone's concerns regarding these false rumors.
> 
> We are not in breach of contract with any companies we do business with, our manufacturers, suppliers or engineering firms. We have very strong relationships with all our supply chain partners including our OEM that is very happy to see we've just passed over the $800,000 threshold in just a few weeks. We also have our own technical team to provide warranty and service to all our backers.
> 
> We designed our own ID, MD and coded our own android software with many patents. Our team put in an abundance of resources to develop the LTV-3500 and LTV-2500 as amazing products and provide great features such as HDR 10+, motorized lens, Dolby Atmos, eARC and the upcoming 3D feature that many of our competitors don’t have. We own the intellectual property rights for both models. We have the sole discretion to determine product pricing, sales and service.
> 
> We do our business honestly and do not overstate the specs, all the Indiegogo specs are true and valid.
> 
> Sometimes when products become respected as best in class, people like to say inaccurate information to slow their progress. We have not been notified by any of our third-party associates that we are in breach of any contract.
> 
> We've been told that these rumors have been started by a few sales people at a competitive company, please keep in mind that a lot of these OEMs have separate companies based in the US that strictly concentrate on sales. Any agreements that AWOL Vision has is directly with the OEM that manufacturers the actual product.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who has interest in our products, if you have any questions or need clarification you can respond to us on this thread or contact us directly.


Thanks for your response! Glad to hear it was FUD. So you’re not just using a Hisense L9 with the knob turned to 11?


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## nixfiction

ufokillerz said:


> lol they replied saying they didn't ship to me yet... wonder what i have coming from dhl then.


Have you received your 3500 yet? Any initial thoughts? I'm contemplating between this and the Fengmi T1 for my first projector. 120" for my basement.


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## arsenalfc89

amheck said:


> I haven't paid much attention to the HDFURY although I've seen it mentioned pretty often lately since I've been looking at projectors. Does the AWOL benefits from using one of these devices?


HDFURY is a great device that allows you to have DV. It also corrects color issues due to the DV as well. Any projector will benefit from it but once AWOL receives the DV update it won’t be as necessary to have the device.


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## arsenalfc89

Quick pics from the LTV-3500.


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## Brooks1

arsenalfc89 said:


> Quick pics from the LTV-3500.
> 
> View attachment 3257767
> View attachment 3257768
> View attachment 3257769
> View attachment 3257770
> View attachment 3257771
> View attachment 3257772
> View attachment 3257773


Wow


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## ufokillerz

nixfiction said:


> Have you received your 3500 yet? Any initial thoughts? I'm contemplating between this and the Fengmi T1 for my first projector. 120" for my basement.


just shipped, should be here this coming thursday. I'm honestly impressed with the T1, but i need a bit more brightness, my room has horrible light control. 
Surprised that AWOL posted other backers being happy with their 3500, i'm #9 and it just shipped.


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## MGF07

arsenalfc89 said:


> Quick pics from the LTV-3500.


Those look fantastic given I know the camera can’t capture the image perfectly. Thanks for sharing.

A couple of questions…
1) did any of those clips have letter boxes?
2) would be curious to see space scene without much bright foreground content.
3) what source are you using? 
4) Would be interested to see something in normal TV mode (some streaming service) with non-4k content in a not super bright, but non-light controlled normal living/game room environment… I know that seems crazy but something I’ll have to deal with in my situation during the day. Does AWOL scale up 1080p content to 4k?


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## cleverdevil

ufokillerz said:


> just shipped, should be here this coming thursday. I'm honestly impressed with the T1, but i need a bit more brightness, my room has horrible light control.
> Surprised that AWOL posted other backers being happy with their 3500, i'm #9 and it just shipped.


Mine shipped today as well and is supposed to arrive tomorrow. Sadly I won’t be able to set it up for a while as I am renovating the house, including the home theater. Gonna be tough to be patient!


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## rjyap

ufokillerz said:


> just shipped, should be here this coming thursday. I'm honestly impressed with the T1, but i need a bit more brightness, my room has horrible light control.
> Surprised that AWOL posted other backers being happy with their 3500, i'm #9 and it just shipped.


Would be great if you can do a comparison between T1 and AWOL 3500. I'm interested if the color accuracy of AWOL 3500 is much better than T1 (hopefully running on ver 2.0 firmware).


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## arsenalfc89

MGF07 said:


> Those look fantastic given I know the camera can’t capture the image perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> A couple of questions…
> 1) did any of those clips have letter boxes?
> 2) would be curious to see space scene without much bright foreground content.
> 3) what source are you using?
> 4) Would be interested to see something in normal TV mode (some streaming service) with non-4k content in a not super bright, but non-light controlled normal living/game room environment… I know that seems crazy but something I’ll have to deal with in my situation during the day. Does AWOL scale up 1080p content to 4k?


1. The dark scene has a letterbox but can take more with letterboxes.
2. I’ll see if I can get that for you.
3. Apple TV 4K
4. Attached are pictures from YouTube during the day. Keep in mind my projector is calibrated to 2.4 gamma which means that it is actually dimmer than what you will see out of the box. For example this is 75 nits and out of the box it’s around 100 nits. Honestly any brighter and my eyes may start hurting lol.


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## arsenalfc89

The picture quality and sharpness of this projector is ridiculous! Side note, I forgot what it feels like to have a projector that doesn’t require constant tweaking to get things right. 🤣


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## MGF07

arsenalfc89 said:


> The picture quality and sharpness of this projector is ridiculous!


That’s what I’m noticing as people have been posting pics of different projectors. I know the colors are a little off because of cameras, but I still feel the T1 (which is right up there at the top) has a weird color push of some sort. The AWOL sharpness I think noticeable in the shots of the little girl and the fur on her hood in the eye candy thread. Still would be nice to see identical mostly dark scenes between AWOL and T1.


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## lattiboy

MGF07 said:


> That’s what I’m noticing as people have been posting pics of different projectors. I know the colors are a little off because of cameras, but I still feel the T1 (which is right up there at the top) has a weird color push of some sort. The AWOL sharpness I think noticeable in the shots of the little girl and the fur on her hood in the eye candy thread. Still would be nice to see identical mostly dark scenes between AWOL and T1.


There is an AWOL user posting pics in the eye candy thread here









UST screenshot eye candy thread


Hey there everybody, now that there is a new UST section, I think it’s worthwhile to have our own screenshot thread. No rules as such, but I think it’s worthwhile to show the room lit as you see it as opposed to cropping out everything but the screen. Show those open windows and interior lights...




www.avsforum.com





Myself and others are posting our own pics. A few are identical. There is an issue with the T1 and taking pictures, you have to really do color correction with the old firmware. With the new firmware I’m using (beta, coming out public soon) it’s much easier.


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## heavyharmonies

Another layman/newb question re: calibration. I last had an ISF calibration done almost 20 years ago and really have not attempted any self-calbiration in approximately 10 years... technology and displays have changed dramatically in that time (HDR? WTF is HDR?). I have ordered the S&M UHD calibration disc as well as the 1080p 2nd edition disc (for 3D functionality when it arrives).

I'm having a bit of a mental block though on how this works at a fundamental level (I've read through many of the various resources). Back in the day, settings were stored in display devices on a per-input basis. If your device had multiple User/Custom profiles, that was ideal. The AWOL does not. So how do you calibrate the same input source for both HDR and SDR content, assuming the settings need to be different for each? Per-input settings don't work if the same input device is playing both. So do you use the User profile for HDR playback and then choose a different profile (Movie, Standard, etc.) to use for SDR playback?

The included Amazon Fire TV stick will be used for streaming content (the minority of my viewing). The vast majority of viewing will be via my Oppo BDP-203 routing through a Denon AVR to the AWOL, with a Toshiba HD-DVD player and Panasonic SACD/DVD player also routing through the AVR.

The Denon AVR-X4200w supports two HDMI outputs. Is there any benefit to connecting BOTH to the AWOL and using one for SDR content and the other for HDR content, presumably to have different settings per input?

Or am I overthinking this? I'm getting flashbacks on how much H/T setup used to make my head hurt.

Thanks.


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## swerlin1

Seriously considering an awol. Does anybody know who makes their screens? or know the quality of them? I try to get a decent screen for new pj purchases and just want to get a good one so Im not disappointe. My room has light and is no where near a black pit, windows, lights, ,,so any recommendations would be greatly appreciate..
ty much


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## Gordon Parr

ufokillerz said:


> just shipped, should be here this coming thursday. I'm honestly impressed with the T1, but i need a bit more brightness, my room has horrible light control.
> Surprised that AWOL posted other backers being happy with their 3500, i'm #9 and it just shipped.


I don’t know what number I was but mine will arrive Thursday as well…screen not so lucky — mid to late April.


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## Jason_Fox

Got my LTV-2500 a week ago. Have it set up with Fengmi 100-inch ALR screen that was a whopping $350 off Walmart.com. I rolled the dice on it since it'd be easy to return, but it is indeed a lenticular ALR screen. I am quite pleased with everything thus far. Black levels are, of course, kinda terrible after getting used to my mini-LED TCL 6 series, but whatever. You only really notice that on 2.35:1 stuff and I plan on making mattes for those situations. Using it in a finished basement with good light control. Looks great during the day with the overhead cans dimmed/off.


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## jakechoy

Jason_Fox said:


> Got my LTV-2500 a week ago. Have it set up with Fengmi 100-inch ALR screen that was a whopping $350 off Walmart.com. I rolled the dice on it since it'd be easy to return, but it is indeed a lenticular ALR screen. I am quite pleased with everything thus far. Black levels are, of course, kinda terrible after getting used to my mini-LED TCL 6 series, but whatever. You only really notice that on 2.35:1 stuff and I plan on making mattes for those situations. Using it in a finished basement with good light control. Looks great during the day with the overhead cans dimmed/off.


when u say black levels are bad..what do you mean? thanks!


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## Jason_Fox

jakechoy said:


> when u say black levels are bad..what do you mean? thanks!


Oh, you know, the typical dark gray you typically get from non-OLED or other recent tech. It's not worse than I was expecting, if that's what you're wondering. Don't really notice it with 16:9 content, but some masks to hide the letterboxing on 2.35:1 films would help. That's my project for this weekend.


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## Dave Harper

Be careful with masking on a screen when using an ultra short throw projector because they can easily get in the way and cause bad shadows on the screen. They need to be super thin to not get in the way, plus it depends on your screen size which affects how far away the projector is from the wall and screen.


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## Jason_Fox

Yeah, I've been doing a little bit of testing around that. I think on the bottom, I'll keep the mask a little lower than it technically should be so any shadow will end up in the letterbox area. At least that's my current idea. More testing to do.


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## heavyharmonies

I thought I had seen this somewhere, but I can't find it now: Is there a chart somewhere that shows the distance from the front of projector to screen at various image sizes (90, 100, 110, 120, etc.) for the LTV-2500/3500? The stand I was planning to use isn't deep enough.

EDIT: Never mind. It's in the manual.


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## Jason_Fox

heavyharmonies said:


> I thought I had seen this somewhere, but I can't find it now: Is there a chart somewhere that shows the distance from the front of projector to screen at various image sizes (90, 100, 110, 120, etc.) for the LTV-2500/3500? The stand I was planning to use isn't deep enough.


On the last page:



https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554/7445/4576/files/AWOL_Vision_Specifications.pdf?v=1641593588


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## heavyharmonies

Jason_Fox said:


> On the last page:
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554/7445/4576/files/AWOL_Vision_Specifications.pdf?v=1641593588


Thanks. I actually found a better version in the manual itself (who the hell reads manuals???)


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## cleverdevil

Received my LTV-3500 yesterday and did a quick and dirty setup with my old (non-ALR) projector screen. Verdict – the brightness is unreal, the image is crisp and clear, and the color *pops* to produce a beautiful picture. On my existing screen, the blacks are pretty bad, but it isn't fair to the AWOL to judge blacks until I'm using an ALR screen and have spent some time calibrating/tuning.

Speaking of calibrating/tuning, its been ages since I've calibrated the picture on a projector. The AWOL is replacing an old budget BenQ, and I'd like to dial it in to maximize the picture quality. Does anyone have recommendations on some good baseline settings on the LTV-3500? All I've done so far is some adjustments on the "Standard" picture mode to disable MEMC and enable dynamic contrast.

I'm _really_ looking forward to seeing what this thing can do with the AWOL screen, a proper setup, and a software update or two! The sky is the limit!


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## arsenalfc89

cleverdevil said:


> Received my LTV-3500 yesterday and did a quick and dirty setup with my old (non-ALR) projector screen. Verdict – the brightness is unreal, the image is crisp and clear, and the color *pops* to produce a beautiful picture. On my existing screen, the blacks are pretty bad, but it isn't fair to the AWOL to judge blacks until I'm using an ALR screen and have spent some time calibrating/tuning.
> 
> Speaking of calibrating/tuning, its been ages since I've calibrated the picture on a projector. The AWOL is replacing an old budget BenQ, and I'd like to dial it in to maximize the picture quality. Does anyone have recommendations on some good baseline settings on the LTV-3500? All I've done so far is some adjustments on the "Standard" picture mode to disable MEMC and enable dynamic contrast.
> 
> I'm _really_ looking forward to seeing what this thing can do with the AWOL screen, a proper setup, and a software update or two! The sky is the limit!


First thing is adjusting the brightness using a pattern so it may go below the default 50 or higher depending on your room. Yes definitely an ALR screen is needed for black level. My room reflects a lot of light so my baseline for you will look bad but the good thing is this projector is pretty accurate outside the box. You can also enable High Dynamic in the light setting, that brings down the black level pretty low but it does change the colors a little bit which AWOL is working on an update. If I remember correctly I initially used standard in the color temperature and movie or standard in the image mode. This projector also has full CMS so if you have a probe then definitely take advantage of this setting.


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## cleverdevil

arsenalfc89 said:


> This projector also has full CMS so if you have a probe then definitely take advantage of this setting.


I haven't used a CMS before, but would be open to it if the price is right and its something I can learn to do. Any recommendations on that front?


----------



## arsenalfc89

cleverdevil said:


> I haven't used a CMS before, but would be open to it if the price is right and its something I can learn to do. Any recommendations on that front?


You can get the colorchecker display plus from Amazon and use a free software like HCFR. If you want to go the paid route then Chromapure or Colourspace will be beneficial.


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## rjyap

cleverdevil said:


> I haven't used a CMS before, but would be open to it if the price is right and its something I can learn to do. Any recommendations on that front?


Spectrometer that's below 5nm is expensive and needed to calibrate narrow spectrum of laser light source. I would recommend just get a certified ISF calibrator with the right equipment to do the job. Don't buy cheap colorimeter and expect to get good result.


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## arsenalfc89

rjyap said:


> Spectrometer that's below 5nm is expensive and needed to calibrate narrow spectrum of laser light source. I would recommend just get a certified ISF calibrator with the right equipment to do the job. Don't buy cheap colorimeter and expect to get good result.


The Xrite display pro 3 is actually very good one and recommended by the creators of Chromapure and Colourspace. I bought a calibrated one from Colourspace and it has helped me produce excellent results.


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## rjyap

arsenalfc89 said:


> The Xrite display pro 3 is actually very good one and recommended by the creators of Chromapure and Colourspace. I bought a calibrated one from Colourspace and it has helped me produce excellent results.


As far as I know non of the colorimeter is being profile for narrow spectrum tri-laser projector. You might want to check with Colourspace on the available calibration profile in the unit. They have multiple profile for LED, OLED, lamp based DLP projector, LCD based projector etc. Each required different profile to be accurate.


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## arsenalfc89

rjyap said:


> As far as I know non of the colorimeter is being profile for narrow spectrum tri-laser projector. You might want to check with Colourspace on the available calibration profile in the unit. They have multiple profile for LED, OLED, lamp based DLP projector, LCD based projector etc. Each required different profile to be accurate.


Speaking with Steven the creator of Colourspace I used the Generic CMF option. Chromapure has a laser projector profile.


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## rjyap

arsenalfc89 said:


> Speaking with Steven the creator of Colourspace I used the Generic CMF option. Chromapure has a laser projector profile.


I just check out Generic CMF is basically raw output from colorimeter. Not being profile to a tri laser projector. My understanding is dual laser with phosphor wheel and true tri laser color spectrum spread is quite different. The best if you can rent a good spectrometer below 5nm and profile your colorimeter.


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## Brooks1

Does anyone know if their eARC poet is HDMI 2.1? I read that some companies try to do it with software…. I know their other HDMI ports are 2.0b


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## EagerKeen

Brooks1 said:


> Does anyone know if their eARC poet is HDMI 2.1? I read that some companies try to do it with software…. I know their other HDMI ports are 2.0b


The Awols (so the HDMI ports, although they supports eARC) isn’t full HDMI 2.1 standard, it supports only 4K/60Hz, cause of the DMD chip which only supports 4K up to 60Hz. 
So the ports are limited to 4K/60.

Other UST‘s which supports 4K/120Hz on their ports are downscaling to 4K/60 anyway, cause currently no in UST’s implemented chip on the market supports 4K/120.


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## Brooks1

EagerKeen said:


> The Awols (so the HDMI ports, although they supports eARC) isn’t full HDMI 2.1 standard, it supports only 4K/60Hz, cause of the DMD chip which only supports 4K up to 60Hz.
> So the ports are limited to 4K/60.
> 
> Other UST‘s which supports 4K/120Hz on their ports are downscaling to 4K/60 anyway, cause currently no in UST’s implemented chip on the market supports 4K/120.


Right, so my question, and excuse my ignorance on this, is how is it true eARC when eARC requires HDMI 2.1. https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/hdmi-arc-and-hdmi-earc-everything-you-need-to-know I thought that eARC required HDMI 2.1? Wouldn't a 2.0b port only support ARC? Compressed vs uncompressed 5.1, Dolby ATMOS, DTS:X, none of that is supported without eARC at the higher data rate.

"Enhanced Audio Return Channel (also known as eARC) is the next generation of ARC. It’s a feature implemented in the most recent HDMI 2.1 specification." So how does this have eARC without at least the eARC port being 2.1?


----------



## 3sprit

Don’t buy a monitor or TV just for HDMI 2.1 — read the fine print or you might get fooled


“Fake” HDMI 2.1 is about to be a thing




www.theverge.com


----------



## amheck

Just saw on the Indiegogo page that the screens are not shipping with the projectors. I guess I just assume when they shipping your package, everything was coming at once. That's a bit disappointing.


----------



## EagerKeen

Brooks1 said:


> Right, so my question, and excuse my ignorance on this, is how is it true eARC when eARC requires HDMI 2.1. https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/hdmi-arc-and-hdmi-earc-everything-you-need-to-know I thought that eARC required HDMI 2.1? Wouldn't a 2.0b port only support ARC? Compressed vs uncompressed 5.1, Dolby ATMOS, DTS:X, none of that is supported without eARC at the higher data rate.
> 
> "Enhanced Audio Return Channel (also known as eARC) is the next generation of ARC. It’s a feature implemented in the most recent HDMI 2.1 specification." So how does this have eARC without at least the eARC port being 2.1?


HDMI 2.1 is not only the standard for the ports, it‘s a general standard for new HDMI specs. So devices can even have the eARC function without supporting all of the HDMI 2.1 standard.


----------



## jorgemurillo2012

@ProjectionHead I've done the email thing on your website to get a 45% discount on the AWOL ltv-3500 but I never received anything..


----------



## Brooks1

jorgemurillo2012 said:


> @ProjectionHead I've done the email thing on your website to get a 45% discount on the AWOL ltv-3500 but I never received anything..


That may not be offered as it was a preorder thing (had to do it before it went on Indigogo. It’s still significantly cheaper at the 40% discount


----------



## cleverdevil

Thanks for the advice on calibration, folks! I think now that I've invested thousands in a quality projector and screen, that it makes the most sense to hire an ISF pro to do a proper calibration once my home theater renovation is done. I'll likely reach out here in the forum later for recommendations


----------



## jorgemurillo2012

Brooks1 said:


> That may not be offered as it was a preorder thing (had to do it before it went on Indigogo. It’s still significantly cheaper at the 40% discount


I got an email they still offering it 😄


----------



## Brooks1

jorgemurillo2012 said:


> I got an email they still offering it 😄


Nice!!!!


----------



## nthydro

Anyone figured out why is 150" @ 2K?


----------



## EagerKeen

nthydro said:


> Anyone figured out why is 150" @ 2K?


AWOL‘s reply to that question on IGG:

„We don’t overstate our specs, we can guarantee we have the same resolution as other USTs on the same size screen.
The number of pixels (i.e resolution) is the same no matter if it is on the 120” or 150”. But it has to pass the clarity test to declare it as 4K resolution.
The test method is to project the 4K test card on the screen. If you see it clearly you can claim it is 4K. If you only can see 2K test card clearly, you claim it is 2K. From 120” to 150”, the clarity of the resolution decreased gradually instead of suddenly. As there is only 4K or 2K test card, we can see the 4K clearly on 120” and 2K card clearly on 150”.
We always are honest with our backers and potential backers and don’t want to mislead anyone.“


----------



## Gordon Parr

amheck said:


> Just saw on the Indiegogo page that the screens are not shipping with the projectors. I guess I just assume when they shipping your package, everything was coming at once. That's a bit disappointing.


My disappointment is the same! PJ will arrive today. I also bought the smart cabinet (smart? IDK!!!) back when i signed up. It shipped 6 weeks ago…since there is no tracking with it I have no idea where it is.


----------



## arsenalfc89

nthydro said:


> Anyone figured out why is 150" @ 2K?


This is actually the same for all UST. It all has to do with PPI. AWOL is just being upfront while most manufacturers are “don’t ask don’t tell”. If you’ve used any UST before at that size, this will be the same.


----------



## nthydro

EagerKeen said:


> AWOL‘s reply to that question on IGG:
> 
> „We don’t overstate our specs, we can guarantee we have the same resolution as other USTs on the same size screen.
> The number of pixels (i.e resolution) is the same no matter if it is on the 120” or 150”. But it has to pass the clarity test to declare it as 4K resolution.
> The test method is to project the 4K test card on the screen. If you see it clearly you can claim it is 4K. If you only can see 2K test card clearly, you claim it is 2K. From 120” to 150”, the clarity of the resolution decreased gradually instead of suddenly. As there is only 4K or 2K test card, we can see the 4K clearly on 120” and 2K card clearly on 150”.
> We always are honest with our backers and potential backers and don’t want to mislead anyone.“


Thanks. Would viewing distance during those tests affect the outcome?


----------



## nthydro

arsenalfc89 said:


> This is actually the same for all UST. It all has to do with PPI. AWOL is just being upfront while most manufacturers are “don’t ask don’t tell”. If you’ve used any UST before at that size, this will be the same.


Is that why other manufacturers only list 120" as the max size for their projector? I assume you can move all of them back a few inches and get 150" too.


----------



## EagerKeen

nthydro said:


> Thanks. Would viewing distance during those tests affect the outcome?


Yes, it would, the principle is the same, only in reverse. If you move further backwards the PQ (sharpness/ppi) on 150“ will improve again.


----------



## EagerKeen

nthydro said:


> Is that why other manufacturers only list 120" as the max size for their projector? I assume you can move all of them back a few inches and get 150" too.


Not every lens (focus) is made for every picture/screen size.
If the manufacturer only list his specs up to 120“ the pic will probably be too blurred and too dark to enjoy it with bigger screen sizes. Same reason why AWOL say 150“= only 2K resolution. But the AWOL has enough brightness at least.


----------



## nthydro

EagerKeen said:


> Not every lens (focus) is made for every picture/screen size.
> If the manufacturer only list his specs up to 120“ the pic will probably be too blurred and too dark to enjoy it with bigger screen sizes. Same reason why AWOL say 150“= only 2K resolution. But the AWOL has enough brightness at least.


I see. Thank you.


----------



## nas19

EagerKeen said:


> AWOL‘s reply to that question on IGG:
> 
> „We don’t overstate our specs, we can guarantee we have the same resolution as other USTs on the same size screen.
> The number of pixels (i.e resolution) is the same no matter if it is on the 120” or 150”. But it has to pass the clarity test to declare it as 4K resolution.
> The test method is to project the 4K test card on the screen. If you see it clearly you can claim it is 4K. If you only can see 2K test card clearly, you claim it is 2K. From 120” to 150”, the clarity of the resolution decreased gradually instead of suddenly. As there is only 4K or 2K test card, we can see the 4K clearly on 120” and 2K card clearly on 150”.
> We always are honest with our backers and potential backers and don’t want to mislead anyone.“


I find it weird that a company (and not just anyone but a company that produces projectors) say that the resolution drops to 2k when screen size is greater than 120". I fail to find the logic behind that statement. 

I think they meant to convey that the overall visual quality decreases if the screen size goes beyond 120". They could actually just say that. Or better, explain what's the limitation. Is it the focus? Or brightness drop? Or whatever. Just not "resolution drops to 2k". Makes me wonder.


----------



## rooterha

nas19 said:


> I find it weird that a company (and not just anyone but a company that produces projectors) say that the resolution drops to 2k when screen size is greater than 120". I fail to find the logic behind that statement.
> 
> I think they meant to convey that the overall visual quality decreases if the screen size goes beyond 120". They could actually just say that. Or better, explain what's the limitation. Is it the focus? Or brightness drop? Or whatever. Just not "resolution drops to 2k". Makes me wonder.


Right - it's most likely some combination of focus and brightness so presenting it as 2k is an odd way of putting it since a 2k projector can certainly project a clear, sharp image, just at a lower resolution.


----------



## AWOLVision

nas19 said:


> I find it weird that a company (and not just anyone but a company that produces projectors) say that the resolution drops to 2k when screen size is greater than 120". I fail to find the logic behind that statement.
> 
> I think they meant to convey that the overall visual quality decreases if the screen size goes beyond 120". They could actually just say that. Or better, explain what's the limitation. Is it the focus? Or brightness drop? Or whatever. Just not "resolution drops to 2k". Makes me wonder.


Hello,

To clarify, the number of pixels (i.e resolution) is the same no matter if it is on the 120” or 150”. But it has to pass the clarity test to declare it as 4K resolution.
The test method is to project the 4K test card on the screen. If you see it clearly you can claim it is 4K. If you only can see the 2K test card clearly, you claim it is 2K. From 120” to 150”, the clarity of the resolution decreased gradually instead of suddenly. As there are only 4K or 2K test card, we can see the 4K clearly on 120” and 2K card clearly on 150”.

The projector is spreading the same pixel count over a larger area = each pixel is larger on a 150” than a 120” despite having the exact same total pixel count. Larger pixels = less clarity and a higher chance the viewer can see the individual pixels without increasing distance.


----------



## nthydro

AWOLVision said:


> Hello,
> 
> To clarify, the number of pixels (i.e resolution) is the same no matter if it is on the 120” or 150”. But it has to pass the clarity test to declare it as 4K resolution.
> The test method is to project the 4K test card on the screen. If you see it clearly you can claim it is 4K. If you only can see the 2K test card clearly, you claim it is 2K. From 120” to 150”, the clarity of the resolution decreased gradually instead of suddenly. As there are only 4K or 2K test card, we can see the 4K clearly on 120” and 2K card clearly on 150”.
> 
> The projector is spreading the same pixel count over a larger area = each pixel is larger on a 150” than a 120” despite having the exact same total pixel count. Larger pixels = less clarity and a higher chance the viewer can see the individual pixels without increasing distance.


Do you know what distance the testing was done at?


----------



## nthydro

nas19 said:


> I find it weird that a company (and not just anyone but a company that produces projectors) say that the resolution drops to 2k when screen size is greater than 120". I fail to find the logic behind that statement.
> 
> I think they meant to convey that the overall visual quality decreases if the screen size goes beyond 120". They could actually just say that. Or better, explain what's the limitation. Is it the focus? Or brightness drop? Or whatever. Just not "resolution drops to 2k". Makes me wonder.


I agree that it's probably not the best way for them to describe the difference, but I do respect that they're at least trying to be transparent about it.


----------



## arsenalfc89

nas19 said:


> I find it weird that a company (and not just anyone but a company that produces projectors) say that the resolution drops to 2k when screen size is greater than 120". I fail to find the logic behind that statement.
> 
> I think they meant to convey that the overall visual quality decreases if the screen size goes beyond 120". They could actually just say that. Or better, explain what's the limitation. Is it the focus? Or brightness drop? Or whatever. Just not "resolution drops to 2k". Makes me wonder.


They don’t say it drops to 2K but you see 2K clearly at 150”. Every UST is this way hense the reason you never see a 150” with 100% focus uniformity let alone 120” Again every UST is this way, AWOL just are being true to the test. I actually wish more manufacturers will do this. It will help eliminate bogus lumens, color gamut, and contrast claims etc. But you still make a good point because someone very new to projectors may interpret this way.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Here is a day time shot (still very difficult to remove the pink tint the camera adds). Hopefully you should be able to see the letterbox at the top and bottom. If you’re okay with how the blacks look here with ambient light then you’ll be okay with no ambient light because it gets darker. Unless your reference is OLED or Mini LED lol.

I can imaginge the manufacturers looking at some these threads and saying “man all they do is talk about black level like our projectors don’t do anything else’s. Do they watch a black screen all day?” 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## humax

arsenalfc89 said:


> Hopefully you should be able to see the letterbox at the top and bottom. If you’re okay with how the blacks look here with ambient light then you’ll be okay with no ambient light because it gets darker.



You need dark scenes with black bars to visually experience the low contrast issue and bring up the grey and haze. It is always there, but you don't really see it in bright content. Ideally, you need to use true torture material like the night episode of GOT or shows like Chapelwaite. I watched the latter on my Philips 2510 and it failed miserably to properly display what was going on. Any projector that can handle the candle-lit scenes in that show is alright in my book.


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Here is a day time shot (still very difficult to remove the pink tint the camera adds). Hopefully you should be able to see the letterbox at the top and bottom. If you’re okay with how the blacks look here with ambient light then you’ll be okay with no ambient light because it gets darker. Unless your reference is OLED or Mini LED lol.
> 
> I can imaginge the manufacturers looking at some these threads and saying “man all they do is talk about black level like our projectors don’t do anything else’s. Do they watch a black screen all day?” 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> View attachment 3260462


To be fair, with my L9G scenes like this looked fine. The issues come with darker movies with heavy amount of black. A couple that stick out as being particulary bad on the L9G:

Muppets Haunted Mansion
Guardians of the Galaxy (theres a scene about mid way through with Gamora and Star Lord in space that was mostly gray instead of black)
John Wick 2/3 (bad tone mapping made dark scenes very dull, flat, hard to make out)

So I'd love to see screenshots of stuff like that instead of something like Bridgerton which is one of the brightest shows I've ever seen haha.


----------



## rooterha

humax said:


> You need dark scenes with black bars to visually experience the low contrast issue and bring up the grey and haze. It is always there, but you don't really see it in bright content. Ideally, you need to use true torture material like the night episode of GOT or shows like Chapelwaite. I watched the latter on my Philips 2510 and it failed miserably to properly display what was going on. Any projector that can handle the candle-lit scenes in that show is alright in my book.


Does GoT have Dolby Vision on HBO Max? That episode would be great to use if so.


----------



## humax

rooterha said:


> Does GoT have Dolby Vision on HBO Max? That episode would be great to use if so.



I live in Greece, so I would not know. HBO Max has not launched here yet. However, Chapelwaite I highly recommend both for content and as torture material. Talking about stressing out your projector to the max! You need high-end JVC or even better OLED blacks to get this show properly displayed. Even for the T1, it would be a real challenge. Lower contrast units, forget about it, it is a slaughter. The odd thing is that dark-lit/under-lit shows are becoming more common these days, so projectors need to also up their game.


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> To be fair, with my L9G scenes like this looked fine. The issues come with darker movies with heavy amount of black. A couple that stick out as being particulary bad on the L9G:
> 
> Muppets Haunted Mansion
> Guardians of the Galaxy (theres a scene about mid way through with Gamora and Star Lord in space that was mostly gray instead of black)
> John Wick 2/3 (bad tone mapping made dark scenes very dull, flat, hard to make out)
> 
> So I'd love to see screenshots of stuff like that instead of something like Bridgerton which is one of the brightest shows I've ever seen haha.


Terrible show btw 🤣. If you give me some time stamps I’ll take some shots.


----------



## wintertrader

Netace44 said:


> I am in Canada, I just got my tracking number this morning. Looking forward to it.


Hi , can you please let me know if you were charged extra fees at delivery? Awol mentions that everything is included in the S&H fees charged for Canada. Thanks


----------



## EagerKeen

wintertrader said:


> Hi , can you please let me know if you were charged extra fees at delivery? Awol mentions that everything is included in the S&H fees charged for Canada. Thanks


No one gets extra charged, all taxes and fees for international delivery are included in „shipping cost“.


----------



## Dave Harper

cleverdevil said:


> Thanks for the advice on calibration, folks! I think now that I've invested thousands in a quality projector and screen, that it makes the most sense to hire an ISF pro to do a proper calibration once my home theater renovation is done. I'll likely reach out here in the forum later for recommendations


Where are you located?


----------



## amheck

EagerKeen said:


> No one gets extra charged, all taxes and fees for international delivery are included in „shipping cost“.


 I know Vava had some issues with shipments going to countries that charged VAT. I read many of them got held up in customs waiting for Vava to cover the charges. Hopefully Awol has this all lined up already as there were a lot of frustrated people


----------



## Brett Goolsby

Received my 3500 today, projected it on my 110 inch screen However after about an hour and a half of trying to tweak it I never could get it quite squared up. Hopefully when the 120 inch screen comes in that I ordered in the bundle I can get it in line I think part of the problem is the screen is not equally flush to the wall and all four corners now. 
One of the most frustrating things I am dealing with though is I was originally set up with a DIRECTV receiver going through a splitter One HDMI cable going to a TV in my living room while the other one going into my Denon AVR originally I was able to watch and listen to the same thing in both areas both video and sound, now when I have both of them connected the same way I get no sound at all through the TV in the living room or the Denon going to the projector either via the aArc or standard HDMI. This is very frustrating don’t know what could be the issue. The projector is very bright I can actually watch it in the theater room with all the lights on and still see the screen very clearly compared to before where it would be very washed out with my old projector. I ordered the screen bundle and waiting for it to come in


----------



## wintertrader

Hello everyone, 

I ordered the Awol 3500 but not their 120 ALR screen ( as it is a fixed screen ) due to the specific configuration of my walls etc. in my basement. As the configuration is now, I could not use a 120 fixed screen unless I do some changes ( replacement of furniture, etc.) which I don't want to. Therefore I need to look elsewhere and for a different type of screen: i.e. an ALR but the electric tab tension ceiling type. This is my first UST projector therefore very new to this and I am learning about many things as I go. Reading through this thread was a real treat as I learned a few things. I am curious if someone could recommend a specific type of screen. Quick research showed up a few places where one could purchase these : Projectorscreens ( Brian thanks for the you tube and written review you posted ), elitescreen, vividstormscreens, but was wondering if someone could recommend a specific type and place where quality and price ratio is OK. 

I knew these screens were expensive before purchasing the projector but I just wonder if the high price is due to the fact that this is a very niche market. I saw some that are literally in the thousands. My mind can not really comprehend why are these so expensive. 

My viewing distance would be around 10 feet. Is it realistic to aim for a 120" screen or I should settle for a 100" screen size? . Based on some quick research a 10 feet distance should be OK for a 120" screen size. If not, I could always diminish the projection size to a 100". But I could not do the reverse if I purchase the 100" screen and then I am stuck with just 100 " size. Is my assessment correct? 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Many many thanks in advance.


----------



## amheck

I think I saw someone mention a vividstorm 110" in the "awol vs t1" thread here in the new UST section. Maybe that's a good compromise?


----------



## emathew

wintertrader said:


> Hi , can you please let me know if you were charged extra fees at delivery? Awol mentions that everything is included in the S&H fees charged for Canada. Thanks


On the IndieGoGo thread already, someone from Edmonton received and charged nothing. Mine is arriving on Tuesday.


----------



## heavyharmonies

wintertrader said:


> ...was wondering if someone could recommend a specific type and place where quality and price ratio is OK.


I did a considerable amount of comparison shopping for the motorized floor-rising screens from Vividstorm. I too was torn between 100" vs. 120" and I settled on a compromise, the 110" S PRO P with the acoustically treated bottom panel, which allows me to place a center channel speaker behind the screen.

I ended up ordering direct from VividStorm, as their all-in price once you factor in shipping, sales tax, etc. was the lowest. Even though the company is located overseas, my unit shipped from their Arizona warehouse and I had it in less than a week from ordering. It's packed well and I had zero problems. While I managed setup by myself, ideally you would have a second set of hands, as the unit weighs approximately 70 pounds.

Oops, I just saw that you are located in Canada, so this may not be as viable.


----------



## IDAnonymous

arsenalfc89 said:


> Something that is worth paying attention to is the fact that this projector is very bright and at the same time very accurate picture wise. You see most projectors as they get brighter looses accuracy so more or less you’re forced to have a dimmer picture. The benefit about this AWOL is with the accurate brightness mixed with the average black level allows for an excellent dynamic picture. It allows you to see details some other projectors can’t replicate. A lot of users have an ALR screen which by nature cuts down the brightness so the more headroom you have the better dynamic range you’ll be able to witness. Something that is also worth noting is what @Dave Harper said in his review (projectorscreen.com), also same man that found the HDFURY hack. Currently the PQ is jaw dropping but as he said if AWOL improves even further on the contrast maybe via the dynamic contrast then this projector will have no equal. I may sound like a fanboy but if you see my post history I’m the opposite (you can also see the pictures I posted of the AWOL in another thread). I buy a lot of projectors to compare in person and this AWOL unit has impressed me the most same with the Benq 7050i. I still say if you want very deep blacks then T1, C2, or Chroma although you will have to sacrifice on shadow detail, dynamic range, and to an extent PQ (still good projectors).


I am still on the fence about which UST projector based on price and performance. BTW, I also seen lsp9t priced at $3300. I know the AWOL has 3500 lumen but the hisense px1-pro 2200 lumen is $200 usd more based on msrp in a state without sales tax. Is the dynamic laser contrast on the hisense px1-pro also 3000:1? Hisense is pretty trust worthy experienced UST maker. We know the l9g is in dolby vision verification (like awol). The DV was shown on the unit at the UST showcase. But not sure if DV will also be available on the px1-pro. I was at the UST showcase and the AWOL color is very similar to hisense which looked accurate/natural (both in movie mode, main lights off but still have some background lights). I think the 3500 lumen is much better than other trilaser UST for daytime viewing but my main concern is night viewing. The AWOL was next to the wemax nova. I attached a photo below to show the difference in black level. I forgot if this was before or after I set both units to movie mode. I know photos don't always show the exact image but this is similar to the difference I saw in person.











The ALPD 4.0 projector I seen in person for extended period is the vava chroma (no import). I can tell colors are not accurate out of the box (still red skin tone). I have no experience calibrating like members on here. But friends and I tinker. With customized image settings shared on fb private group combined with htpc madvr (We are not too familiar with madvr but read some guides online. This is using dynamic? tone map HDR using pixel shader at 150 target peak nits instead of 3dlut based on display). Colors are better with madvr. Below are photos taken on a samsung galaxy s21 ultra (a little pixelated) of what the vava chroma can do on a white wall in complete dark. Not exactly what I see but close. Shadow detail is decently preserved and not crushed in loki's hair when examining the enlarged photo. Black is greyish but probably will look much better on a grey alr screen instead of a white wall (Not ADL or super dark scene shown here but I can say the perceived black against other colors is pretty good) But I am afraid a 0.6 gain alr will dim picture as arsenalfc89 pointed out that vava chroma HDR content looks dim. This is where I think the 3500 lumen with high contrast and high dynamic light on the AWOL should benefit HDR content (and hopefully DV) on alr (higher brightness should lead to better perceived blacks. But in person, the elevated black floor is noticeable) @arsenalfc89, It seems like you are saying that even with lldv on the chroma, you think the AWOL's picture with or without the hdfury with the AWOL is better? I am specifically asking this because I do believe the chroma's picture is not at it's full potential due to software issues and the hdfury show more of what it can truly do. AVSforum member brajesh in his vava chroma user review thread said,

"I used the standard film HDR mode on my Chroma, and these settings by @markswift2003 on my Zidoo, and my jaw dropped to the floor... no hyperbole here (okay, maybe a tad bit, as I'm pretty excited ), but this HDFury thing is worth every penny! It made everything better on the Chroma: contrast, colors, blacks and even sharpness..."

But he also said the wemax nova's black is better (should be same ALPD 2500-3000:1 contrast). I think we talk a lot about contrast because like* lattiboy pointed out*, dlp ust archilles heel have been the low contrast compared to long throw.

And is high dynamic light on the AWOL just a brighter light and not laser dimming like the lsp9t? The 2000 lumen AWOL-2500 is around the 2500 lumen vava chroma indiegogo price if factoring bundling screen or not. Vava also had great discounts during black friday on their 1st UST. I am also curious how hdfury lldv compare to real dolby vision support (especially dolby vision tone mapping on the c2 or t1). P.S. I do like that the AWOL has a full CMS since more flexibility is always better.


----------



## arsenalfc89

IDAnonymous said:


> I am still on the fence about which UST projector based on price and performance. BTW, I also seen lsp9t priced at $3300. I know the AWOL has 3500 lumen but the hisense px1-pro 2200 lumen is $200 usd more based on msrp in a state without sales tax. Is the dynamic laser contrast on the hisense px1-pro also 3000:1? Hisense is pretty trust worthy experienced UST maker. We know the l9g is in dolby vision verification (like awol). The DV was shown on the unit at the UST showcase. But not sure if DV will also be available on the px1-pro. I was at the UST showcase and the AWOL color is very similar to hisense which looked accurate/natural (both in movie mode, main lights off but still have some background lights). I think the 3500 lumen is much better than other trilaser UST for daytime viewing but my main concern is night viewing. The AWOL was next to the wemax nova. I attached a photo below to show the difference in black level. I forgot if this was before or after I set both units to movie mode. I know photos don't always show the exact image but this is similar to the difference I saw in person.
> 
> View attachment 3260680
> 
> 
> 
> The ALPD 4.0 projector I seen in person for extended period is the vava chroma (no import). I can tell colors are not accurate out of the box (still red skin tone). I have no experience calibrating like members on here. But friends and I tinker. With customized image settings shared on fb private group combined with htpc madvr (We are not too familiar with madvr but read some guides online. This is using dynamic? tone map HDR using pixel shader at 150 target peak nits instead of 3dlut based on display). Colors are better with madvr. Below are photos taken on a samsung galaxy s21 ultra (a little pixelated) of what the vava chroma can do on a white wall in complete dark. Not exactly what I see but close. Shadow detail is decently preserved and not crushed in loki's hair when examining the enlarged photo. Black is greyish but probably will look much better on a grey alr screen instead of a white wall (Not ADL or super dark scene shown here but I can say the perceived black against other colors is pretty good) But I am afraid a 0.6 gain alr will dim picture as arsenalfc89 pointed out that vava chroma HDR content looks dim. This is where I think the 3500 lumen with high contrast and high dynamic light on the AWOL should benefit HDR content (and hopefully DV) on alr (higher brightness should lead to better perceived blacks. But in person, the elevated black floor is noticeable) @arsenalfc89, It seems like you are saying that even with lldv on the chroma, you think the AWOL's picture with or without the hdfury with the AWOL is better? I am specifically asking this because I do believe the chroma's picture is not at it's full potential due to software issues and the hdfury show more of what it can truly do. AVSforum member brajesh in his vava chroma user review thread said,
> 
> "I used the standard film HDR mode on my Chroma, and these settings by @markswift2003 on my Zidoo, and my jaw dropped to the floor... no hyperbole here (okay, maybe a tad bit, as I'm pretty excited ), but this HDFury thing is worth every penny! It made everything better on the Chroma: contrast, colors, blacks and even sharpness..."
> 
> But he also said the wemax nova's black is better (should be same ALPD 2500-3000:1 contrast). I think we talk a lot about contrast because like* lattiboy pointed out*, dlp ust archilles heel have been the low contrast compared to long throw.
> 
> And is high dynamic light on the AWOL just a brighter light and not laser dimming like the lsp9t? The 2000 lumen AWOL-2500 is around the 2500 lumen vava chroma indiegogo price if factoring bundling screen or not. Vava also had great discounts during black friday on their 1st UST. I am also curious how hdfury lldv compare to real dolby vision support (especially dolby vision tone mapping on the c2 or t1). P.S. I do like that the AWOL has a full CMS since more flexibility is always better.
> View attachment 3260679
> View attachment 3260681


I have the Chroma as well and having an HDFURY is essential to getting better colors. This does mean you have to watch everything in LLDV/DV (there’s no difference to my understanding). The AWOL doesn’t need an HDFURY because the color accuracy is that good and the HDR to me is better. Also keep in mind that Nova is crushing black like crazy but it still doesn’t take away that it still has better blacks. Also I’m sure the AWOL at the event is not using its dynamic settings. I measured my Chroma black level at .018 which is very low. For the AWOL Dynamic light turned on black was at around .03 and white was around 120-130nits (insane) with a contrast ratio around 3200-3500 and off black is around .08 and white around 100 nits with a contrast ratio of around 1100.

Lastly this is the part where some are missing. The Chroma at it’s brightest measures around 75 nits. You’ll need to put the AWOL laser at 0 to get down lower than 75 nits. Lower light output means lower black floor. Now if you calibrate the Chroma to D65 the light output decreases to around 45 nits so that makes the blacks look even better but brings brightness down a lot. The AWOL isn’t getting anywhere close to that low of a light output unless you crush blacks. So ultimately it comes down to having the Chroma or another ALPD unit that will need a secondary device to bring the best out of it, mostly processing (even then the PQ may still need tweaking). Or AWOL that doesn’t need a secondary device but you do have to live with average blacks unless you turn on Dynamic Contrast and High Dynamic Light. Or you can always turn the laser down to 0 lol.


----------



## rooterha

IDAnonymous said:


> I am still on the fence about which UST projector based on price and performance. BTW, I also seen lsp9t priced at $3300. I know the AWOL has 3500 lumen but the hisense px1-pro 2200 lumen is $200 usd more based on msrp in a state without sales tax. Is the dynamic laser contrast on the hisense px1-pro also 3000:1? Hisense is pretty trust worthy experienced UST maker. We know the l9g is in dolby vision verification (like awol). The DV was shown on the unit at the UST showcase. But not sure if DV will also be available on the px1-pro. I was at the UST showcase and the AWOL color is very similar to hisense which looked accurate/natural (both in movie mode, main lights off but still have some background lights). I think the 3500 lumen is much better than other trilaser UST for daytime viewing but my main concern is night viewing. The AWOL was next to the wemax nova. I attached a photo below to show the difference in black level. I forgot if this was before or after I set both units to movie mode. I know photos don't always show the exact image but this is similar to the difference I saw in person.
> 
> View attachment 3260680
> 
> 
> 
> The ALPD 4.0 projector I seen in person for extended period is the vava chroma (no import). I can tell colors are not accurate out of the box (still red skin tone). I have no experience calibrating like members on here. But friends and I tinker. With customized image settings shared on fb private group combined with htpc madvr (We are not too familiar with madvr but read some guides online. This is using dynamic? tone map HDR using pixel shader at 150 target peak nits instead of 3dlut based on display). Colors are better with madvr. Below are photos taken on a samsung galaxy s21 ultra (a little pixelated) of what the vava chroma can do on a white wall in complete dark. Not exactly what I see but close. Shadow detail is decently preserved and not crushed in loki's hair when examining the enlarged photo. Black is greyish but probably will look much better on a grey alr screen instead of a white wall (Not ADL or super dark scene shown here but I can say the perceived black against other colors is pretty good) But I am afraid a 0.6 gain alr will dim picture as arsenalfc89 pointed out that vava chroma HDR content looks dim. This is where I think the 3500 lumen with high contrast and high dynamic light on the AWOL should benefit HDR content (and hopefully DV) on alr (higher brightness should lead to better perceived blacks. But in person, the elevated black floor is noticeable) @arsenalfc89, It seems like you are saying that even with lldv on the chroma, you think the AWOL's picture with or without the hdfury with the AWOL is better? I am specifically asking this because I do believe the chroma's picture is not at it's full potential due to software issues and the hdfury show more of what it can truly do. AVSforum member brajesh in his vava chroma user review thread said,
> 
> "I used the standard film HDR mode on my Chroma, and these settings by @markswift2003 on my Zidoo, and my jaw dropped to the floor... no hyperbole here (okay, maybe a tad bit, as I'm pretty excited ), but this HDFury thing is worth every penny! It made everything better on the Chroma: contrast, colors, blacks and even sharpness..."
> 
> But he also said the wemax nova's black is better (should be same ALPD 2500-3000:1 contrast). I think we talk a lot about contrast because like* lattiboy pointed out*, dlp ust archilles heel have been the low contrast compared to long throw.
> 
> And is high dynamic light on the AWOL just a brighter light and not laser dimming like the lsp9t? The 2000 lumen AWOL-2500 is around the 2500 lumen vava chroma indiegogo price if factoring bundling screen or not. Vava also had great discounts during black friday on their 1st UST. I am also curious how hdfury lldv compare to real dolby vision support (especially dolby vision tone mapping on the c2 or t1). P.S. I do like that the AWOL has a full CMS since more flexibility is always better.
> View attachment 3260679
> View attachment 3260681


Nice pics.

Interesting how hard the Nova got trashed at the UST showcase considering the story the picture you posted tells...


----------



## amheck

So is the general consensus that if you are in a dark room, can the light outpit be turned down (via some setting or watch mode) to get to an acceptable black level?


----------



## rooterha

amheck said:


> So is the general consensus that if you are in a dark room, can the light outpit be turned down (via some setting or watch mode) to get to an acceptable black level?


If it's like the L9G you should be able to turn it down. Most content will be fine but you'll still have gray hazy dark scenes. Just the nature of these types of projectors if they don't have ALPD.

I tested the Hisense L9G Dolby Vision update on a number of dark scenes and while it's better overall than the shoddy tone mapping from before, you just can't beat that Haze. I tested it at night with the laser turned all the way down and same issue. The difference between it and the T1 was shocking.

It does seem like AWOL may be experimenting with some other ways to fix some of these issues? But not sure how much is a hardware limit and what can be fixed through software.


----------



## wintertrader

heavyharmonies said:


> I did a considerable amount of comparison shopping for the motorized floor-rising screens from Vividstorm. I too was torn between 100" vs. 120" and I settled on a compromise, the 110" S PRO P with the acoustically treated bottom panel, which allows me to place a center channel speaker behind the screen.
> 
> I ended up ordering direct from VividStorm, as their all-in price once you factor in shipping, sales tax, etc. was the lowest. Even though the company is located overseas, my unit shipped from their Arizona warehouse and I had it in less than a week from ordering. It's packed well and I had zero problems. While I managed setup by myself, ideally you would have a second set of hands, as the unit weighs approximately 70 pounds.
> 
> Oops, I just saw that you are located in Canada, so this may not be as viable.


Thank you. Much appreciated. I live close to the border so if shipment to Canada is not possible than I could pick it up from a USA Kinek address.


----------



## wintertrader

amheck said:


> I think I saw someone mention a vividstorm 110" in the "awol vs t1" thread here in the new UST section. Maybe that's a good compromise?


Thank you


----------



## wintertrader

emathew said:


> On the IndieGoGo thread already, someone from Edmonton received and charged nothing. Mine is arriving on Tuesday.


Thanks for info


----------



## amheck

<-- Backer #469


----------



## IDAnonymous

arsenalfc89 said:


> I have the Chroma as well and having an HDFURY is essential to getting better colors. This does mean you have to watch everything in LLDV/DV (there’s no difference to my understanding). The AWOL doesn’t need an HDFURY because the color accuracy is that good and the HDR to me is better. Also keep in mind that Nova is crushing black like crazy but it still doesn’t take away that it still has better blacks. Also I’m sure the AWOL at the event is not using its dynamic settings. I measured my Chroma black level at .018 which is very low. For the AWOL Dynamic light turned on black was at around .03 and white was around 120-130nits (insane) with a contrast ratio around 3200-3500 and off black is around .08 and white around 100 nits with a contrast ratio of around 1100.
> 
> Lastly this is the part where some are missing. The Chroma at it’s brightest measures around 75 nits. You’ll need to put the AWOL laser at 0 to get down lower than 75 nits. Lower light output means lower black floor. Now if you calibrate the Chroma to D65 the light output decreases to around 45 nits so that makes the blacks look even better but brings brightness down a lot. The AWOL isn’t getting anywhere close to that low of a light output unless you crush blacks. So ultimately it comes down to having the Chroma or another ALPD unit that will need a secondary device to bring the best out of it, mostly processing (even then the PQ may still need tweaking). Or AWOL that doesn’t need a secondary device but you do have to live with average blacks unless you turn on Dynamic Contrast and High Dynamic Light. Or you can always turn the laser down to 0 lol.





rooterha said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> Interesting how hard the Nova got trashed at the UST showcase considering the story the picture you posted tells...


I know their was a live streaming of the showcase but I didn't really hear what was said or what was written in the comments. There also wasn't too many members there. A lot of ppl are industry ppl. I do also think a lot of members there were looking mostly at the triple laser which the wemax was not. Most of the time the room had lights on and even when turned off, there are some background lights. To be fair, that is the use case of UST (aka laser tv) but in those situations, the wemax black advantage doesn't show. The limited color gamut also makes it less vibrant. Especially when next to the very bright AWOL. But having owned midrange long throws and seen highend long throws, the wemax throws up a pretty good contrasty picture. The color accuracy is actually similar to the AWOL just more limited color gamut. I do think the hisense & awol got more coverage because it's sold here in the USA while alpd are talked about less even though it is used in cinema barco projectors. I also want to point out that the lsp7t looked really good. But the lsp9t was projected on a 120" screen and under those conditions, it looked a lot worse than the hisense/awol. And the fresnel looked a lot better than lenticular in person (Much better with lights on and still much better with lights off. To my surprise, the viewing angle wasn't bad either. It almost sold me on fresnel TBO but there is reflection to the ceiling that can be distracting and glare off the screen from some angle)

I am just unsure of the 3500 lumen AWOL's $3300 price. Like I said, that is close to the big name hisense px1-pro (2200 lumen), samsung lsp9t (2800 lumen. Which i seen it for $3300 including tax but I didn't pull the trigger. Tech always drop in price but not a gurantee that price will show up again).

The 2000 lumen AWOL projector is priced similar to ALPD 4.0 projectors like the vava chroma (free screen bundle is still the lowest price) and t1 (must import). I understand the clean setup of a UST PJ/good out of box experience and hdfury is cost on top (cheapest arcane is $300 msrp). But I just wonder if I can get a good picture with something like MADVR (and turn off the hdr processing of something like the chroma), whether I should go with that option since black level is one thing that cannot be altered (perceived contrast can with dynamic contrast and dynamic light as discussed).

The big advantage is the 3500 lumen, 3D, and DV. Very beneficial during the day. I thought it might not be too beneficial at night but @arsenalfc89 said it helps HDR picture to not look dim and provided a great explanation with nits number. Now this seems to be my main deciding factor whether to pay for the 3500 lumen AWOL.

I do want to point out that $6k JVC-nx5 projector's aren't bright but it throws up reference image. I can't measure the nits but I read the 2800 lumen lsp9t peak nit is around 180 nits. The chroma is 2500 lumen, so shouldn't it only be slightly lower? (but after calibration, that nit number drops lower and I guess what I read might not be the nits measured off a 0.6 gain ALR which knocks 180 nits to 108 nits and 100 nits should be minimum for hdr with 125-150 nits recommended). And i need to make a correction. We actually set it to 100 nits in MADVR. Without the ALR, I thought the hdr brightness is pretty good. But I never seen how much dimmer it gets with a 0.6 gain ALR. I do have an oled tv but always owned a projector (which I no longer have) so I am debating how much I should spend to not anger the wife and be happy with my purchase lol. Just some personal thought processes I figured can be helpful to others while I decide myself.


----------



## Netace44

emathew said:


> On the IndieGoGo thread already, someone from Edmonton received and charged nothing. Mine is arriving on Tuesday.


Hi that was me on Indiegogo, no extra fees whatsoever. Just setup my 2500 in my theater room, really impressed so far. So happy I backed out of the Vava Chroma.


----------



## ufokillerz

got my 3500 today, disappointed that my lens had fingerprints on it from Awol... Had to clean that before i could do anything.
This thing is huge! i have the Vava Chroma and the Fengmi T1. This projector also needs more space and lower down to get the image right. .25 vs the .23. 
Black is definitely not as black, and the colors are definitely not as nice as the Fengmi, but it the brightness is insane. I have a 135" and previously ,daytime viewing.... sucked.
tweaking it soon!


----------



## IDAnonymous

ufokillerz said:


> got my 3500 today, disappointed that my lens had fingerprints on it from Awol... Had to clean that before i could do anything.
> This thing is huge! i have the Vava Chroma and the Fengmi T1. This projector also needs more space and lower down to get the image right. .25 vs the .23.
> Black is definitely not as black, and the colors are definitely not as nice as the Fengmi, but it the brightness is insane. I have a 135" and previously ,daytime viewing.... sucked.
> tweaking it soon!


I would like to hear a second opinion from someone that owns all 3! For night time movie watching, would you prefer the alpd projectors because of the better black (and better color for the fengmi t1). I assume the built in vava chroma's picture (color, etc) is very off compared to t1. I am wondering how hdfury or madvr vava chroma compare to the fengmi t1 since I think those external devices bring out the true potential of the chrom. I don't worry too much about daytime viewing since I use an oled tv for that (even though they are not PJ image size, those prices at the 77"-83" have dropped a lot over time).

BTW, are you keeping all 3 usts? (or you are invovled in the PJ business?) Or do you plan to sell and keep only one? Where do you sell? on avsforum? I prefer to take less risk and hassles. I feel like all other forms of payment are unsafe besides cash but not may $3000+ in cash buyers.


----------



## arsenalfc89

IDAnonymous said:


> I would like to hear a second opinion from someone that owns all 3! For night time movie watching, would you prefer the alpd projectors because of the better black (and better color for the fengmi t1). I assume the built in vava chroma's picture (color, etc) is very off compared to t1. I am wondering how hdfury or madvr vava chroma compare to the fengmi t1 since I think those external devices bring out the true potential of the chrom. I don't worry too much about daytime viewing since I use an oled tv for that (even though they are not PJ image size, those prices at the 77"-83" have dropped a lot over time).
> 
> BTW, are you keeping all 3 usts? (or you are invovled in the PJ business?) Or do you plan to sell and keep only one? Where do you sell? on avsforum? I prefer to take less risk and hassles. I feel like all other forms of payment are unsafe besides cash but not may $3000+ in cash buyers.


You might as well add the P1X-Pro to the list. 🤣🤣


----------



## arsenalfc89

More shots from the 3500 calibrated to 2.4 gamma. It still amazes me how realistic the images look. Colors just look right.


----------



## ryu4000

Order my lvt-3500 can't wait for it to get here next week so stoked im coming from hu810p which i love but no support or fixes for the issues of that projector and awol look so nice. If anyone mind sharing thier settings they use that be cool


----------



## ufokillerz

IDAnonymous said:


> I would like to hear a second opinion from someone that owns all 3! For night time movie watching, would you prefer the alpd projectors because of the better black (and better color for the fengmi t1). I assume the built in vava chroma's picture (color, etc) is very off compared to t1. I am wondering how hdfury or madvr vava chroma compare to the fengmi t1 since I think those external devices bring out the true potential of the chrom. I don't worry too much about daytime viewing since I use an oled tv for that (even though they are not PJ image size, those prices at the 77"-83" have dropped a lot over time).
> 
> BTW, are you keeping all 3 usts? (or you are invovled in the PJ business?) Or do you plan to sell and keep only one? Where do you sell? on avsforum? I prefer to take less risk and hassles. I feel like all other forms of payment are unsafe besides cash but not may $3000+ in cash buyers.


Started off with the Chroma, then i got the T1, the T1 seemed better then the Chroma in every way except lack of 3D. The T1 black level definitely much better then the Awol. I am mainly debating between the Awol and the T1. I'm chasing perfection for my living room setup, and i am leaning towards the awol due to the insane amount of lumens it projects. I have a 135" screen that the other 2 projectors cannot keep up with, except in full darkness. I also have the hdfury arcana plugged in between.


----------



## arsenalfc89

ufokillerz said:


> Started off with the Chroma, then i got the T1, the T1 seemed better then the Chroma in every way except lack of 3D. The T1 black level definitely much better then the Awol. I am mainly debating between the Awol and the T1. I'm chasing perfection for my living room setup, and i am leaning towards the awol due to the insane amount of lumens it projects. I have a 135" screen that the other 2 projectors cannot keep up with, except in full darkness. I also have the hdfury arcana plugged in between.


I would remove the HDFURY from the AWOL. The T1 needs it but not AWOL. The HDFURY will elevate the black level of the AWOL along with muting the PQ. I say calibrate the AWOL and wait for the DV update.


----------



## Brett Goolsby

Has anyone tried hooking their direcTV non 4k receiver to the Awol? I am unable to get any sound at all even bypassed the splitters and AVR. I’ve had it for a few days now and mostly stream via Apple 4k and last night watching something on Apple+ had a couple brief HDMI drop outs where the HDMI symbol would pop up on the screen but then the picture would come back this might be a result of unplugging and plugging cables and stuff in and out trying to figure out what was wrong with the DIRECTV receiver maybe everything just needs to be rebooted as it wasn’t doing that the previous night. I am using a high end 8k fiber cable I believe from mono price 50’. 
I ordered the 120” screen and of course it hasn’t come in yet so I’m using my original 110 inch. Carada and unable to get the alignment tweaked correctly as I am guessing the problem is the height of screen or projector base as I have the screen pretty well filled but about a half inch gap at the bottom that no matter how I move the projector cannot fill. I’m not going to sweat it until the new screen comes in and I can hopefully get it mounted at the right height because my stand is pretty much as low as it can be. In the meantime any screen alignment tips are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Dave Harper

ufokillerz said:


> got my 3500 today, disappointed that my lens had fingerprints on it from Awol... Had to clean that before i could do anything.
> This thing is huge! i have the Vava Chroma and the Fengmi T1. This projector also needs more space and lower down to get the image right. .25 vs the .23.
> 
> Black is definitely not as black, *and the colors are definitely not as nice as the Fengmi, *but it the brightness is insane. I have a 135" and previously ,daytime viewing.... sucked.
> tweaking it soon!


The colors _“don’t look as nice on the AWOL” _because they’re damn near spot on accurate on the AWOL out of the box and the Fengmi I am sure is way overblown like just about every other consumer display out there. You’re just used to overblown inaccurate colors that please and fool the eye. 

See the below quote by arsenalfc89 for proof:


arsenalfc89 said:


> More shots from the 3500 calibrated to 2.4 gamma. It still amazes me how realistic the images look. Colors just look right.
> 
> View attachment 3261088
> View attachment 3261089
> View attachment 3261090
> View attachment 3261091





arsenalfc89 said:


> I would remove the HDFURY from the AWOL. The T1 needs it but not AWOL. The HDFURY will elevate the black level of the AWOL along with muting the PQ. I say calibrate the AWOL and wait for the DV update.


Not sure I’d agree with this. All it takes is some good calibration and proper settings. Of course once they release the DV update then all bets are off, haha!


----------



## rooterha

Dave Harper said:


> The colors _“don’t look as nice on the AWOL” _because they’re damn near spot on accurate on the AWOL out of the box and the Fengmi I am sure is way overblown like just about every other consumer display out there. You’re just used to overblown inaccurate colors that please and fool the eye.
> 
> See the below quote by arsenalfc89 for proof:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I’d agree with this. All it takes is some good calibration and proper settings. Of course once they release the DV update then all bets are off, haha!


Accurate normally means boring and lifeless to me. Preference is more important to the individual I think but I'm sure you're right.


----------



## Bobbyz110

arsenalfc89 said:


> More shots from the 3500 calibrated to 2.4 gamma. It still amazes me how realistic the images look. Colors just look right.
> 
> View attachment 3261088
> View attachment 3261089
> View attachment 3261090
> View attachment 3261091


What are you settings?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> The colors _“don’t look as nice on the AWOL” _because they’re damn near spot on accurate on the AWOL out of the box and the Fengmi I am sure is way overblown like just about every other consumer display out there. You’re just used to overblown inaccurate colors that please and fool the eye.
> 
> See the below quote by arsenalfc89 for proof:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I’d agree with this. All it takes is some good calibration and proper settings. Of course once they release the DV update then all bets are off, haha!


You make a good point on the settings and calibration. Yes a good calibrated picture can be had with the HDFURY but the AWOL doesn’t have extensive HDR calibration tools. For me not having those tools, I found going the HDFURY route didn’t give me the desired effect I was looking for (for some it was okay). For the ALPD units it didn’t matter to me as any processing help was good enough.


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> Accurate normally means boring and lifeless to me. Preference is more important to the individual I think but I'm sure you're right.


Good point here as well. It comes down to preference. Accuracy/life-like or more over saturation. I liked the over saturated look of the Chroma till I got the AWOL. The realism it brings is something to see in person once calibrated. Also accuracy doesn’t make the image boring or lifeless, in fact it makes the colors that are suppose to be bold stand out more, when everything looks over saturated it makes movies look linear to me if that makes sense. But with accuracy it really makes the different colors and scenes that are meant to stand out REALLY stand out. HDR really takes advantage of this.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Bobbyz110 said:


> What are you settings?


I’ll have to check when I’m home. Unlike tv, projectors really are affected by the room so settings don’t translate as well. My living room has white walls and light colored furnitures. Light bounces around like crazy at my viewing room so my settings will make your image look crazy lol. I will highly suggest hiring someone to calibrate it. I think this should be essential for every protector owner. The good thing tho is the AWOL is pretty accurate out of the box. Proper calibration just takes it to another level.


----------



## lattiboy

Dave Harper said:


> The colors _“don’t look as nice on the AWOL” _because they’re damn near spot on accurate on the AWOL out of the box and the Fengmi I am sure is way overblown like just about every other consumer display out there. You’re just used to overblown inaccurate colors that please and fool the eye.


The T1 in display mode (an out of the box setting) is incredibly accurate. So accurate I didn’t bother doing further calibration. The colors look “better” because of contrast and black levels. I’m saying this having owned multiple projectors that cover over 100% of DCI P3.

I will pull out my SpyderX this week, but guess is Delta E of 5 @6500K. The difference between a Delta E of 5 and 3 is practically imperceptible to most people.

If you don’t believe me, our friend Gregory did the lords work. This is without a real CMS and before the firmware which made Display mode near perfect:


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Good point here as well. It comes down to preference. Accuracy/life-like or more over saturation. I liked the over saturated look of the Chroma till I got the AWOL. The realism it brings is something to see in person once calibrated. Also accuracy doesn’t make the image boring or lifeless, in fact it makes the colors that are suppose to be bold stand out more, when everything looks over saturated it makes movies look linear to me if that makes sense. But with accuracy it really makes the different colors and scenes that are meant to stand out REALLY stand out. HDR really takes advantage of this.


For sure - like I said totally personal preference.


----------



## rooterha

lattiboy said:


> The T1 in display mode (an out of the box setting) is incredibly accurate. So accurate I didn’t bother doing further calibration. The colors look “better” because of contrast and black levels. I’m saying this having owned multiple projectors that cover over 100% of DCI P3.
> 
> I will pull out my SpyderX this week, but guess is Delta E of 5 @6500K. The difference between a Delta E of 5 and 3 is practically imperceptible to most people.
> 
> If you don’t believe me, our friend Gregory did the lords work. This is without a real CMS and before the firmware which made Display mode near perfect:
> 
> View attachment 3261389


Keep fighting the good fight 😍


----------



## arsenalfc89

lattiboy said:


> The T1 in display mode (an out of the box setting) is incredibly accurate. So accurate I didn’t bother doing further calibration. The colors look “better” because of contrast and black levels. I’m saying this having owned multiple projectors that cover over 100% of DCI P3.
> 
> I will pull out my SpyderX this week, but guess is Delta E of 5 @6500K. The difference between a Delta E of 5 and 3 is practically imperceptible to most people.
> 
> If you don’t believe me, our friend Gregory did the lords work. This is without a real CMS and before the firmware which made Display mode near perfect:
> 
> View attachment 3261389


This is strictly white balance which isn’t that difficult to tune. My Chroma has similar delta errors but my AWOL is less than 2. It’s when you run a full gamut sweep and color checker you really see the difference. I guarantee if you run these test you’ll see how bad it is if it’s anything like the Chroma. I mean deltas in the double digits. AWOL well calibrated is getting lower than 2.5 delta across the board. T1 will not be anywhere close to that I guarantee that. It’s not a terrible projector but not there yet. I actually think C2 is more accurate. It just doesn’t have the processing or tools but if you like the image as is then that’s what really matters.


----------



## amheck

Lots of people on the Indiegogo discussion page seem to have gotten their pj’s in the last day or two. Response seems to be overall very positive. Thats good to see


----------



## lattiboy

arsenalfc89 said:


> This is strictly white balance which isn’t that difficult to tune. My Chroma has similar delta errors but my AWOL is less than 2. It’s when you run a full gamut sweep and color checker you really see the difference. I guarantee if you run these test you’ll see how bad it is if it’s anything like the Chroma. I mean deltas in the double digits. AWOL well calibrated is getting lower than 2.5 delta across the board. T1 will not be anywhere close to that I guarantee that. It’s not a terrible projector but not there yet. I actually think C2 is more accurate. It just doesn’t have the processing or tools but if you like the image as is then that’s what really matters.


There is a literal measurement chart in my post showing a delta e of 3 @ 6430K for the T1. This is in line with what I have observed personally, having owned one for 5 months and having done measurements myself.

I am confused as to why you are doubting this.

If you honestly believe a Delta E difference of 0.5 is “nowhere near” I simply don’t know how to continue having a conversation with you.


----------



## arsenalfc89

lattiboy said:


> There is a literal measurement chart in my post showing a delta e of 3 @ 6430K for the T1. This is in line with what I have observed personally, having owned one for 5 months and having done measurements myself.
> 
> I am confused as to why you are doubting this.
> 
> If you honestly believe a Delta E difference of 0.5 is “nowhere near” I simply don’t know how to continue having a conversation with you.


Yes that graph is showing the white balance errors. You do realize there’s more measurements than white balance right? 2.5 and lower on the AWOL across the board includes white balance, primary and secondary gamut sweeps, color checker, saturation levels, luminance errors etc. (I can post my post calibrated charts but it will embarrass the T1 really bad so I haven’t posted anything. You can see Dave review for a glimpse.) The CIE chart of the T1 along with the user pictures being posted gives you a glimpse of what is going on. Idk why you’re mad at me lol but if you like the way the T1 looks to you then that’s what matters not what I’m saying. Dave and I are simply presenting the facts. At the end of the day if you like your T1 then that’s what matters lol.


----------



## IDAnonymous

ufokillerz said:


> Started off with the Chroma, then i got the T1, the T1 seemed better then the Chroma in every way except lack of 3D. The T1 black level definitely much better then the Awol. I am mainly debating between the Awol and the T1. I'm chasing perfection for my living room setup, and i am leaning towards the awol due to the insane amount of lumens it projects. I have a 135" screen that the other 2 projectors cannot keep up with, except in full darkness. I also have the hdfury arcana plugged in between.



So the chroma with arcana running lldv still looks worse than the t1 with or without arcana? I guess that comes down to how the chroma was color calibrated compared to the t1 since the arcana maps the colors from the source into the color coordinates? Is the black level about the same? Chroma just sparks my interest since it uses the same alpd 4.0, no import, and have 3d even though I know the t1 is better regarded and has built in DV.

From what I saw in person at the showcase, the AWOL does look very good color wise and bright. And those photos shared by @arsenalfc89 looks very good. I am thinking that 3500 lumen can be beneficial to a movie like the eternals which can appear dim on a 120" or bigger image. Anyone try that movie with the 3500 AWOL? I know it's indiegogo or alibaba for the discount. Just really wish there were trial periods...


----------



## ufokillerz

IDAnonymous said:


> So the chroma with arcana running lldv still looks worse than the t1 with or without arcana? I guess that comes down to how the chroma was color calibrated compared to the t1 since the arcana maps the colors from the source into the color coordinates? Is the black level about the same? Chroma just sparks my interest since it uses the same alpd 4.0, no import, and have 3d even though I know the t1 is better regarded and has built in DV.
> 
> From what I saw in person at the showcase, the AWOL does look very good color wise and bright. And those photos shared by @arsenalfc89 looks very good. I am thinking that 3500 lumen can be beneficial to a movie like the eternals which can appear dim on a 120" or bigger image. Anyone try that movie with the 3500 AWOL? I know it's indiegogo or alibaba for the discount. Just really wish there were trial periods...


All using arcana lldv direct or forced, depending on projector. The black levels on chroma and t1 we're similar. The chroma did have some calibration, but I didn't play around much before the t1 arrived. No projector helps with the eternals... I tried watching it again with the awol. 3500 lumens is awesome, but I'm missing the t1 black levels.


----------



## lattiboy

arsenalfc89 said:


> Yes that graph is showing the white balance errors. You do realize there’s more measurements than white balance right? 2.5 and lower on the AWOL across the board includes white balance, primary and secondary gamut sweeps, color checker, saturation levels, luminance errors etc. (I can post my post calibrated charts but it will embarrass the T1 really bad so I haven’t posted anything. You can see Dave review for a glimpse.) The CIE chart of the T1 along with the user pictures being posted gives you a glimpse of what is going on. Idk why you’re mad at me lol but if you like the way the T1 looks to you then that’s what matters not what I’m saying. Dave and I are simply presenting the facts. At the end of the day if you like your T1 then that’s what matters lol.


I would honestly like to see those numbers (or a link to the review your mention) as my standard calibration resulted in excellent measurements and perceptually it’s very much in line with my previously calibrated Sony X900E, but with greater coverage.

I find your comments odd as there are multiple JVC owners that find the T1 and C2 to be about as good as they’ve seen. Also, Gregory said he thought it was capable of the finest picture he’d ever seen of a projector at any price (his review was held back by processing issues now addressed with a new firmware).

I would be happy if the AWOL has color that special, but the fact my Bomaker Polaris 4K (which had incredible color measurements when calibrated), is just a touch better than the T1 makes it hard for me to believe.

The light output of the AWOL 3500 seems amazing, and if daytime viewing is a priority I think it’s an obvious choice, even over the T1 or C2.


----------



## IDAnonymous

ufokillerz said:


> All using arcana lldv direct or forced, depending on projector. The black levels on chroma and t1 we're similar. The chroma did have some calibration, but I didn't play around much before the t1 arrived. No projector helps with the eternals... I tried watching it again with the awol. 3500 lumens is awesome, but I'm missing the t1 black levels.


Just clarifying what I meant since I don't think I was clear. When I said, "I guess that comes down to how the chroma was *color calibrated* compared to the t1 since the arcana maps the colors from the source into the color coordinates?", what I mean is the *factory calibration. *And because of the limited CMS, there is no way to fine tune the chroma (so even if you did some calibration, the t1 still looks better). However, the chroma's image gets much better with arcana and madvr tone mapping compared to the built in tone mapping.

It's interesting that gregory said the original vava ust had natural colors out of the box (albeit too cool) without feeling the obligation of a calibration (I also thought the original vava was too cool out of the box but my brief time messing with the settings, I couldn't really get the colors I wanted.) This time the vava chroma's skin tones are way too red, etc. Since it's the same alpd 4.0 laser, I am waiting to see if chroma's new firmware releasing soon does help with colors and the ghosting bug (game mode hack does looks much better). I think the unknown is one thing holding me back on the awol at the moment and the 3500 model cost (Seems like the 2500 model is like getting the px1 pro in terms of performance (plus 3d) but at a cheaper price as AWOL instead of the hisense established brand. So its a solid choice. I just can't resist going all in on the 3500 model even if that cost about the same as 2500 model + c120 if going the awol route).

Yea, I just watched a few scenes of eternals on an oled for the first time. I saw it on the chroma earlier. I guess the chroma really wasn't throwing up an image that was too dim (on a white wall though not 0.6 gain alr which will dim the movie more) since the movie felt similarly dim/dark on the oled haha. Some scenes, the two actually look pretty similar (and got to take into consideration the white wall washes out the image a bit and with proper expectations of a projector's limit compared to tv) but other times vava chroma's skin tones are too red.


----------



## Dave Harper

lattiboy said:


> The T1 in display mode (an out of the box setting) is incredibly accurate. So accurate I didn’t bother doing further calibration. The colors look “better” because of contrast and black levels. I’m saying this having owned multiple projectors that cover over 100% of DCI P3.
> 
> I will pull out my SpyderX this week, but guess is Delta E of 5 @6500K. The difference between a Delta E of 5 and 3 is practically imperceptible to most people.
> 
> If you don’t believe me, our friend Gregory did the lords work. This is without a real CMS and before the firmware which made Display mode near perfect:
> 
> View attachment 3261389





arsenalfc89 said:


> This is strictly white balance which isn’t that difficult to tune. My Chroma has similar delta errors but my AWOL is less than 2. It’s when you run a full gamut sweep and color checker you really see the difference. I guarantee if you run these test you’ll see how bad it is if it’s anything like the Chroma. I mean deltas in the double digits. AWOL well calibrated is getting lower than 2.5 delta across the board. T1 will not be anywhere close to that I guarantee that. It’s not a terrible projector but not there yet. I actually think C2 is more accurate. It just doesn’t have the processing or tools but if you like the image as is then that’s what really matters.





lattiboy said:


> There is a literal measurement chart in my post showing a delta e of 3 @ 6430K for the T1. This is in line with what I have observed personally, having owned one for 5 months and having done measurements myself.
> 
> I am confused as to why you are doubting this.
> 
> If you honestly believe a Delta E difference of 0.5 is “nowhere near” I simply don’t know how to continue having a conversation with you.





arsenalfc89 said:


> Yes that graph is showing the white balance errors. You do realize there’s more measurements than white balance right? 2.5 and lower on the AWOL across the board includes white balance, primary and secondary gamut sweeps, color checker, saturation levels, luminance errors etc. (I can post my post calibrated charts but it will embarrass the T1 really bad so I haven’t posted anything. You can see Dave review for a glimpse.) The CIE chart of the T1 along with the user pictures being posted gives you a glimpse of what is going on. Idk why you’re mad at me lol but if you like the way the T1 looks to you then that’s what matters not what I’m saying. Dave and I are simply presenting the facts. At the end of the day if you like your T1 then that’s what matters lol.





lattiboy said:


> I would honestly like to see those numbers (or a link to the review your mention) as my standard calibration resulted in excellent measurements and perceptually it’s very much in line with my previously calibrated Sony X900E, but with greater coverage.
> 
> I find your comments odd as there are multiple JVC owners that find the T1 and C2 to be about as good as they’ve seen. Also, Gregory said he thought it was capable of the finest picture he’d ever seen of a projector at any price (his review was held back by processing issues now addressed with a new firmware).
> 
> I would be happy if the AWOL has color that special, but the fact my Bomaker Polaris 4K (which had incredible color measurements when calibrated), is just a touch better than the T1 makes it hard for me to believe.
> 
> The light output of the AWOL 3500 seems amazing, and if daytime viewing is a priority I think it’s an obvious choice, even over the T1 or C2.


@lattiboy, it’s apparent you don’t quite understand what a full calibration entails, especially the color parts, and what constitutes a fully accurate image. You’d be wise to listen to @arsenalfc89 on this one. He’s spot on mentioning that although the DeltaE for white balance may be low, that tells you absolutely NOTHING about the color sweeps/tracking, etc.


----------



## saeltmarae2k

Hey, sorry for the dumb question. Me==NOOB. Anyway, I'm considering a 3500 and and trying to figure out measurements and spacing. I understand that the AWOL unit will need to site about 6 inches or so from the wall. How high up will the screen need to be, above the unit? I'm nearly certain I have enough wall width for the 120" screen. Just trying to figure out if I'm going to need to buy a lower stand to accomodate for height. Thanks for any help!


----------



## heavyharmonies

saeltmarae2k said:


> Hey, sorry for the dumb question. Me==NOOB. Anyway, I'm considering a 3500 and and trying to figure out measurements and spacing. I understand that the AWOL unit will need to site about 6 inches or so from the wall. How high up will the screen need to be, above the unit? I'm nearly certain I have enough wall width for the 120" screen. Just trying to figure out if I'm going to need to buy a lower stand to accomodate for height. Thanks for any help!


I posted this earlier in the thread from the AWOL manual. I think dimension C is what you want:


----------



## saeltmarae2k

heavyharmonies said:


> I posted this earlier in the thread from the AWOL manual. I think dimension C is what you want:


Awesome, thank you! I could've sworn I looked through all of the pages... :/


----------



## amheck

Is this going to turn into the owners thread, i assume?


----------



## jakechoy

amheck said:


> Is this going to turn into the owners thread, i assume?


Concur. I think it should be renamed.


----------



## ufokillerz

read some tidbits here and there, was it confirmed who manufactures the awol?


----------



## amheck

FYI for any of you late orderers like myself, the first batch of 3500 sold out and 2nd batch is shipping sometime in May. This is from AWOL support today.


----------



## ryu4000

amheck said:


> FYI for any of you late orderers like myself, the first batch of 3500 sold out and 2nd batch is shipping sometime in May. This is from AWOL support today.


Yep that was the same i was told except they say may or june hopefully we get lucky and they get alot more then excepted made if not we going be in for a long wait but at least we get to see others get it and see the first patch.


----------



## nixfiction

Delayed in shipping by a few days, my 3500 arrived today. Now I just need a temporary screen until that comes....


----------



## cleverdevil

How’s everyone enjoying their AWOL? My 3500 continues to blow me away even though I’m not on an ALR screen yet. One nice surprise is that the built in speakers sound pretty darn good. No substitute for my full setup, but way better than expected.

Definitely still some bugs to work out. The startup video is retina-searingly bright and very loud, and there’s no way to disable it, replace the video, or reduce the volume. The projector doesn’t seem to handle sleep well, and I have had to unplug it and plug it back in several times when I forget to turn it off. Dolby Vision support isn’t ready yet. I’m hoping that AWOL follows through on continued software updates and support. If they do, this is one of the best home theater investments I’ve ever made.


----------



## amheck

I've Def seen them mention that the start up sound will be able to be disabled in the next update. 

Hoping that 2nd batch comes in quick. B also curious to see some screen reviews


----------



## nixfiction

cleverdevil said:


> How’s everyone enjoying their AWOL? My 3500 continues to blow me away even though I’m not on an ALR screen yet. One nice surprise is that the built in speakers sound pretty darn good. No substitute for my full setup, but way better than expected.
> 
> Definitely still some bugs to work out. The startup video is retina-searingly bright and very loud, and there’s no way to disable it, replace the video, or reduce the volume. The projector doesn’t seem to handle sleep well, and I have had to unplug it and plug it back in several times when I forget to turn it off. Dolby Vision support isn’t ready yet. I’m hoping that AWOL follows through on continued software updates and support. If they do, this is one of the best home theater investments I’ve ever made.


I contacted support about the exact same issues yesterday. The loud power on and sleep/hung state with CEC. 

They replied super quick and said they had these being worked on. They would be out in the firmware update next month. They suggested using the AWOL remote for power off and that seems to be worked fine so far.

I'm also hoping they get Dolby Vision added.


----------



## ryu4000

Anyone using harmony remote with this projector.Haven't got my projector yet since i have to wait for batch 2 stock but was wondering how you go about programing the harmony to this remote since it's a no namer.


----------



## nixfiction

ryu4000 said:


> Anyone using harmony remote with this projector.Haven't got my projector yet since i have to wait for batch 2 stock but was wondering how you go about programing the harmony to this remote since it's a no namer.


Don't they have a learn mode where you place the remotes back-to-back?


----------



## heavyharmonies

I posted this to the wrong thread, oops... To anyone else with an AWOL unit and a Vividstorm motorized screen: have you been able to get the USB trigger provided by Vividstorm to work with the AWOL? I have not been able to get it to work. Vividstorm provides the trigger as a "beta" freebie and do not guarantee compatibility. As far as I can tell, it is black-box technology, i.e., nothing configurable, unless there is a projector setting, e.g., CEC or something similar that can be adjusted.


----------



## arsenalfc89

cleverdevil said:


> How’s everyone enjoying their AWOL? My 3500 continues to blow me away even though I’m not on an ALR screen yet. One nice surprise is that the built in speakers sound pretty darn good. No substitute for my full setup, but way better than expected.
> 
> Definitely still some bugs to work out. The startup video is retina-searingly bright and very loud, and there’s no way to disable it, replace the video, or reduce the volume. The projector doesn’t seem to handle sleep well, and I have had to unplug it and plug it back in several times when I forget to turn it off. Dolby Vision support isn’t ready yet. I’m hoping that AWOL follows through on continued software updates and support. If they do, this is one of the best home theater investments I’ve ever made.


I think a lot of people are enjoying it so much the they’re rarely on here at least that’s my case 😂. I use to be constantly searching for a projector even when I had one but ever since I got the AWOL I’ve been content and barely been on the forums as much. Also they mentioned on their Facebook page that an update to open the full picture settings (even though it already has a bunch of calibration settings), including a separate SDR and HDR settings is coming this month. I’m truly impressed by this company.


----------



## arsenalfc89

heavyharmonies said:


> I posted this to the wrong thread, oops... To anyone else with an AWOL unit and a Vividstorm motorized screen: have you been able to get the USB trigger provided by Vividstorm to work with the AWOL? I have not been able to get it to work. Vividstorm provides the trigger as a "beta" freebie and do not guarantee compatibility. As far as I can tell, it is black-box technology, i.e., nothing configurable, unless there is a projector setting, e.g., CEC or something similar that can be adjusted.


I haven’t tried it with my Vividstorm but I’ll take a look.


----------



## arsenalfc89

More pics.


----------



## m0j0

Dave Harper said:


> @lattiboy, it’s apparent you don’t quite understand what a full calibration entails, especially the color parts, and what constitutes a fully accurate image. You’d be wise to listen to @arsenalfc89 on this one. He’s spot on mentioning that although the DeltaE for white balance may be low, that tells you absolutely NOTHING about the color sweeps/tracking, etc.


@Dave Harper just to let you know, the T1 looks great with an HDFury and a little bit of calibration work. Sure, it may never be as accurate as the AWOL, but overall, the colors, skin tones, etc. are really good and also the black levels and sharpness. It's a really good all around projector.


----------



## Dave Harper

m0j0 said:


> @Dave Harper just to let you know, the T1 looks great with an HDFury and a little bit of calibration work. Sure, it may never be as accurate as the AWOL, but overall, the colors, skin tones, etc. are really good and also the black levels and sharpness. It's a really good all around projector.


I hope so, but based on some limited experience with it today with @ProjectionHead I have my doubts. It struggled to look as good overall as the Hisense PX1-Pro in our limited testing. 

There may be more testing tomorrow.


----------



## m0j0

Dave Harper said:


> I hope so, but based on some limited experience with it today with @ProjectionHead I have my doubts. It struggled to look as good overall as the Hisense PX1-Pro in our limited testing.
> 
> There may be more testing tomorrow.


I know you guys are all about out of the box, but really, just add a Vertex2 and see what you can do with it (it is your hack after all). Here's the Vertex2 settings I'm using and they work really well in my opinion.









This one has been tested and works well across all LLDV content









This one is new but initial results seem very good with the spears and munsil 10,000 nit dolby vision FEL demo material (though it looks blown out for 1,000 nit BT.2020 content, so may only work best with high nit and/or native DV content)










Also, here's the calibration settings I'm using:








Formovie Fengmi T1


It is 1080 X 4 pixel-shifting. Samsung's 0.66" DMD is 1528 X 2 pixel-shifting. Theoretically, the latter offers a sharper image with a quality lens. No consumer DLP is native 4K. Even 8K will likely happen via pixel-shifting (perhaps a 0.97" DMD). "Theoretically," is right. I had the Optoma...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

m0j0 said:


> @Dave Harper just to let you know, the T1 looks great with an HDFury and a little bit of calibration work. Sure, it may never be as accurate as the AWOL, but overall, the colors, skin tones, etc. are really good and also the black levels and sharpness. It's a really good all around projector.





Dave Harper said:


> I hope so, but based on some limited experience with it today with @ProjectionHead I have my doubts. It struggled to look as good overall as the Hisense PX1-Pro in our limited testing.
> 
> There may be more testing tomorrow.


@Dave Harper and I both were a little shocked about the lack of “wow” we got from the T1 today, like we both had with the AWOL 3500.
Gonna play with them both again tomorrow as well as the L9 and/or PX1-Pro and possibly toss in the HU85la or LSP9T all being viewed from same source, at same time on identical screens.
By no means is the T1 a bad projector, in fact it’s pretty good but just didn’t live up to the hype generated by the fanatics here based on my limited time with it today.
Going to apply Gregory’s settings and see how much of a difference it makes.
That all being said, image on my unit was nowhere near as sharp as the PX1-Pro setup directly next to it on an identical screen.
Attached image is not indicative of color as the px1-pro photographs (iPhone 12, not our normal camera) with a drastic red hue when taken at the same time as the T1, but the detail of the eagle was indicative of what we were seeing in person.
We’ve just got to spend some more time tinkering with it before I’m ready to draw a conclusion.


----------



## rjyap

Is your firmware ver 2.0 on T1? From the photo you post I believe the color temp is too bluish. Currently I'm on v1.4 and have to use MadVR HDR to SDR (set the monitor is calibrated to DCI-P3) and use custom Image Parameters and brightness to "view". I can send u my madVR settings if you are interested (let's do this in T1 thread).


----------



## ProjectionHead

m0j0 said:


> I know you guys are all about out of the box, but really, just add a Vertex2 and see what you can do with it (it is your hack after all).


lol, @Dave Harper is definitely not an “out of the box” guy. I am far more guilty of that due to the fact that I try to look at projectors in the capacity that the vast majority of consumers do.
Most people aren’t running MadVR, using HDFury or continually tweaking settings based on the content they watch.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that and I encourage everyone to tweak their systems to their heart’s content. Can you improve the PQ of your projector by doing so? Of course… and for enthusiasts, it’s fun!
That being said, the overhwhelming majority of UST owners do not professionally calibrate their units nor spend nearly as much time tweaking it as AVS Forum members do.
Based on the thousands of people we engage with a year, most people seem to want to do limited configuration and enjoy their UST as quickly and hassle-free as possible.
IMHO, the AWOL delivers on that front.


----------



## ProjectionHead

rjyap said:


> Is your firmware ver 2.0 on T1? From the photo you post I believe the color temp is too bluish. Currently I'm on v1.4 and have to use MadVR HDR to SDR (set the monitor is calibrated to DCI-P3) and use custom Image Parameters and brightness to "view". I can send u my madVR settings if you are interested (let's do this in T1 thread).


Color temp is really worthless in these pics based on how the camera handles it, but sharpness and detail are true.
We can chat more in the other thread as you suggested


----------



## Eason1983

Laser speckle is big chanllenge in RGB laser engine, that's why Fengmi can not over come it very well in APLD 4.0 verion and used one extra green color wheel in it's RGB APLD 4.0 version to reduce the laser speckle issue called as LPSE technology which will reduce the green speckle but no much help in Red and Blue speckle. That's you can see why T1 can only meet 89% REC 2020 color range not 100% one and a little higher RGB average laser speckle.
It's a good engineering solution for Fengmi to get the balance between color range and laser speckle.


----------



## rjyap

ProjectionHead said:


> MadVR, using HDFury or continually tweaking settings based on the content they





ProjectionHead said:


> Color temp is really worthless in these pics based on how the camera handles it, but sharpness and detail are true.
> We can chat more in the other thread as you suggested


Please click on below link for MadVR setup and T1 configuration. As for focus, try the focus menu in the Fengmi OS and avoid keystone. I can get very sharp image with some softening at the top left and right corner. 








Formovie Fengmi T1


We’ll I assume you mean how far from the screen (wall is irrelevant if you are using a screen to shine on). 110” is 10.4” and 120” is 12” so figure somewhere around 11”




www.avsforum.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

rjyap said:


> Please click on below link for MadVR setup and T1 configuration. As for focus, try the focus menu in the Fengmi OS and avoid keystone. I can get very sharp image with some softening at the top left and right corner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1
> 
> 
> We’ll I assume you mean how far from the screen (wall is irrelevant if you are using a screen to shine on). 110” is 10.4” and 120” is 12” so figure somewhere around 11”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


We did use focus adjustment and would never use keystone.
Will discuss more in the T1 thread


----------



## MGF07

Would anyone be concerned if the box with your AWOL showed up with this?


----------



## Brooks1

MGF07 said:


> Would anyone be concerned if the box with your AWOL showed up with this?
> 
> View attachment 3265674


I don’t know, check the projector and see if there is damage.


----------



## MGF07

arsenalfc89 said:


> More pics.
> 
> View attachment 3264971
> View attachment 3264972


I got my 3500 setup but no screen yet. I tried playing with the settings a bit mainly picture modes and light modes, but didn’t see much of a change, but it may be the lack of a screen. @arsenalfc89 do you have any recommendations on settings?


----------



## Dave Harper

m0j0 said:


> I know you guys are all about out of the box, but really, just add a Vertex2 and see what you can do with it (it is your hack after all). Here's the Vertex2 settings I'm using and they work really well in my opinion.
> View attachment 3265302
> 
> 
> This one has been tested and works well across all LLDV content
> View attachment 3265303
> 
> 
> This one is new but initial results seem very good with the spears and munsil 10,000 nit dolby vision FEL demo material (though it looks blown out for 1,000 nit BT.2020 content, so may only work best with high nit and/or native DV content)
> View attachment 3265305
> 
> 
> 
> Also, here's the calibration settings I'm using:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1
> 
> 
> It is 1080 X 4 pixel-shifting. Samsung's 0.66" DMD is 1528 X 2 pixel-shifting. Theoretically, the latter offers a sharper image with a quality lens. No consumer DLP is native 4K. Even 8K will likely happen via pixel-shifting (perhaps a 0.97" DMD). "Theoretically," is right. I had the Optoma...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


It just seems very grainy and the lens is clearly not as good as the PX1’s. While my LLDV tweak is awesome, it can’t really fix those issues. 

I’m sure it can look great though.


----------



## ProjectionHead

MGF07 said:


> Would anyone be concerned if the box with your AWOL showed up with this?
> 
> View attachment 3265674


I think you’ll be fine. These are well packaged and unless you see physical damage on the unit itself or it is not functioning properly, you should be good. It’s prob worth contacting them with pic now anyway so it’s documented in case there is any damage.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> It just seems very grainy and the lens is clearly not as good as the PX1’s. While my LLDV tweak is awesome, it can’t really fix those issues.
> 
> I’m sure it can look great though.


Try use custom settings and dial the sharpness down. I'm using test pattern and some video, found that sharpness at 10 is just nice.


----------



## amheck

at least one 120" screen was delivered yesterday, per Indiegogo discussion. Hopefully the reviews should start coming in.


----------



## nixfiction

amheck said:


> at least one 120" screen was delivered yesterday, per Indiegogo discussion. Hopefully the reviews should start coming in.


I received tracking on my 120" screen. It says it should arrive Monday.


----------



## arsenalfc89

ProjectionHead said:


> @Dave Harper and I both were a little shocked about the lack of “wow” we got from the T1 today, like we both had with the AWOL 3500.
> Gonna play with them both again tomorrow as well as the L9 and/or PX1-Pro and possibly toss in the HU85la or LSP9T all being viewed from same source, at same time on identical screens.
> By no means is the T1 a bad projector, in fact it’s pretty good but just didn’t live up to the hype generated by the fanatics here based on my limited time with it today.
> Going to apply Gregory’s settings and see how much of a difference it makes.
> That all being said, image on my unit was nowhere near as sharp as the PX1-Pro setup directly next to it on an identical screen.
> Attached image is not indicative of color as the px1-pro photographs (iPhone 12, not our normal camera) with a drastic red hue when taken at the same time as the T1, but the detail of the eagle was indicative of what we were seeing in person.
> We’ve just got to spend some more time tinkering with it before I’m ready to draw a conclusion.
> View attachment 3265314


You came to the same conclusion I did. The wow factor of the AWOL is what sold me once I turned it on. The color accuracy and sharpness is impressive. Having own an ALPD unit, it’s in desperate need of a secondary device that can handle the processing. Even then the PQ is not consistent across different shows/movies. I got tired of always looking for the right setting. As good as Gregory is in reviewing I’m surprised he doesn’t mention this for all the units. I can’t imagine going back to that lol.


----------



## MGF07

My 120C comes on Friday. Does anyone know if AWOL is buying it from someone or if they custom make their screen?

Anyone tried a ceiling mount with a UST? I saw the thread discussion on the topic which didn’t sound like it went all that well. I ask because I have an angled transition to the ceiling (instead of 90 deg corner) so it’s going to force my stand to be really low. The projection angle from the ceiling mount results in not having wasted wall space plus the possibility of upgrading to 150” screen size once someone makes an ALR that big.

Also, anyone have setting recommendations for the 3500?


----------



## MGF07

Been playing with my 3500 and noticed this around white edges like lettering. Typically green on the upper edges and red on the lower edges. Anyone one else seen it and know how to get rid of it?

Sorry for the bad pic… no screen yet and projecting on the wall.


----------



## ryu4000

MGF07 said:


> Been playing with my 3500 and noticed this around white edges like lettering. Typically green on the upper edges and red on the lower edges. Anyone one else seen it and know how to get rid of it?
> 
> Sorry for the bad pic… no screen yet and projecting on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 3266675


That looks like chroma aberration hate that stuff but i heard they are working on it i can't help won't have my projector till next month.


----------



## arsenalfc89

MGF07 said:


> Been playing with my 3500 and noticed this around white edges like lettering. Typically green on the upper edges and red on the lower edges. Anyone one else seen it and know how to get rid of it?
> 
> Sorry for the bad pic… no screen yet and projecting on the wall.
> 
> View attachment 3266675


Haven’t noticed that on mine but I am using a screen.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Pics from the Halo show.


----------



## ufokillerz

i'm not sure if its just me, sometimes i feel that some scenes do a full color or brightness shift then shifts back a moment later. like my colors dull out for a quick second..


----------



## Brooks1

ufokillerz said:


> i'm not sure if its just me, sometimes i feel that some scenes do a full color or brightness shift then shifts back a moment later. like my colors dull out for a quick second..


It may be what you are watching.. Does it happen with everything?


----------



## AWOLVision

ufokillerz said:


> i'm not sure if its just me, sometimes i feel that some scenes do a full color or brightness shift then shifts back a moment later. like my colors dull out for a quick second..


@ufokillerz , do you have the high/low dynamic light setting on? If so, please use the other light modes for right now as we are working on optimizing the high/low dynamic light settings. Both the High Dynamic and Low Dynamic in light settings are designed to improve the viewing experience by dynamically adjusting the laser source output lumen brightness. When the projector image is bright, the laser source outputs higher brightness. When it detects that the image is dark, the laser source outputs lower brightness.


----------



## ufokillerz

AWOLVision said:


> @ufokillerz , do you have the high/low dynamic light setting on? If so, please use the other light modes for right now as we are working on optimizing the high/low dynamic light settings. Both the High Dynamic and Low Dynamic in light settings are designed to improve the viewing experience by dynamically adjusting the laser source output lumen brightness. When the projector image is bright, the laser source outputs higher brightness. When it detects that the image is dark, the laser source outputs lower brightness.


Thanks! great to hear from you! yes i was using high dynamic light settings.


----------



## ProjectionHead

That’s not a wall, this is a wall…of AWOL


----------



## amheck

I would have guessed any current units would be shipping out to Indiegogo backers first?


----------



## ProjectionHead

amheck said:


> I would have guessed any current units would be shipping out to Indiegogo backers first?


I was a backer.


----------



## amheck

ProjectionHead said:


> I was a backer.


Ah, very cool. I assumed these were units for retail. My bad


----------



## EagerKeen

Still waitin for VIP backing batch A delivery in EU, hope the PJ arrives very soon…


----------



## ufokillerz

Anyone having issues with beta firmware? Mine just reboots the first time I try to load and shuts down the second time


----------



## nixfiction

ufokillerz said:


> Anyone having issues with beta firmware? Mine just reboots the first time I try to load and shuts down the second time


You have beta firmware for your AWOL?


----------



## amheck

nixfiction said:


> You have beta firmware for your AWOL?


They asked in the Facebook group if anyone wanted to try it


----------



## ufokillerz

nixfiction said:


> You have beta firmware for your AWOL?


yes, doesn't fix the dynamic lighting issue, but i got it to turn off the sound
fixed it, i had to find a fat32 compatible thumb drive. it was much harder then i thought to find one at home.


----------



## amheck

There was a post on the FB group about light bleed into the wall if you take the picture to the edge of the Awol screen. As I guess there's no (or a very small) bezel? 

Is this a common issue with ust? Anyone else experienced this?


----------



## ufokillerz

amheck said:


> There was a post on the FB group about light bleed into the wall if you take the picture to the edge of the Awol screen. As I guess there's no (or a very small) bezel?
> 
> Is this a common issue with ust? Anyone else experienced this?


common ust issue. have it on the 3 projectors i have recently. vava chroma, fengmi t1 and the awol 3500.


----------



## amheck

ufokillerz said:


> common ust issue. have it on the 3 projectors i have recently. vava chroma, fengmi t1 and the awol 3500.


what's been your solution? I think I would be a little OCD to not have the picture up to the edge of the screen. Or is this a non-issue once you get used to it?

I was also thinking of the Lytme solution, was curious if this perhaps masks the "bad" lightbleed with "cool" lightbleed?


----------



## ufokillerz

amheck said:


> what's been your solution? I think I would be a little OCD to not have the picture up to the edge of the screen. Or is this a non-issue once you get used to it?
> 
> I was also thinking of the Lytme solution, was curious if this perhaps masks the "bad" lightbleed with "cool" lightbleed?


going to make a black wall. it does get my ocd a little, with the light spill.


----------



## Brooks1

EagerKeen said:


> Still waitin for VIP backing batch A delivery in EU, hope the PJ arrives very soon…


I thought I saw somewhere that the overseas deliveries would be sometime in early May. Maybe I'm wrong... so don't quote me.


----------



## nixfiction

amheck said:


> They asked in the Facebook group if anyone wanted to try it


Ahh, I refuse to join facebook....


----------



## amheck

I see buydig has the 120 l9g on sale for the same price as the Awol 3500/120 Indiegogo price if you missed the deal. Coupon code is on slickdeals. I'm trying to tell myself I'm going to be glad to have those 500 extra lumens


----------



## Brooks1

amheck said:


> I see buydig has the 120 l9g on sale for the same price as the Awol 3500/120 Indiegogo price if you missed the deal. Coupon code is on slickdeals. I'm trying to tell myself I'm going to be glad to have those 500 extra lumens


You will be.


----------



## MGF07

ufokillerz said:


> common ust issue. have it on the 3 projectors i have recently. vava chroma, fengmi t1 and the awol 3500.


How’s the comparison between the 3500 and T1? Color? Blacks? Sharpness?

FYI… I have the light bleed on the 3500 with the AWOL screen. I can’t get rid of it unless I bring the picture in. Thought about maybe some edge lights. Thoughts?


----------



## ufokillerz

MGF07 said:


> How’s the comparison between the 3500 and T1? Color? Blacks? Sharpness?
> 
> FYI… I have the light bleed on the 3500 with the AWOL screen. I can’t get rid of it unless I bring the picture in. Thought about maybe some edge lights. Thoughts?


the blacks on the t1 are much darker to me. Contrast levels are much better on the t1. In a perfectly dark room, i would prefer the contrast on the t1. I have a open living room, and the extra brightness of the awol is needed. Color etc i can't comment since i'm not properly calibrated. They are both equally sharp with good colors to me.


----------



## EagerKeen

Brooks1 said:


> I thought I saw somewhere that the overseas deliveries would be sometime in early May. Maybe I'm wrong... so don't quote me.


May/June was the info for batch B I guess.
This was last official shipping update for international orders (7th of march):


----------



## arsenalfc89

MGF07 said:


> How’s the comparison between the 3500 and T1? Color? Blacks? Sharpness?
> 
> FYI… I have the light bleed on the 3500 with the AWOL screen. I can’t get rid of it unless I bring the picture in. Thought about maybe some edge lights. Thoughts?


You can try using some velvet material on the borders. I have the Chroma and AWOL but I also saw the T1 which to me is a slightly better version of the Chroma so didn’t stay with the T1. Black level goes to the T1/Chroma easily but Sharpness and Color to the AWOL easily. Turing on active contrast and highly dynamic light in the AWOL significantly increases the black level from .08 to .03 (the T1/Chroma is at .01 for reference) and the contrast ratio from 1100:1 to 3200:1 range. I keep the dynamic light off as it changes the white balance (update to fix it is pending). To me the T1/Chroma is difficult to get an accurate image mostly due to the processing and limited color calibration but if you want deeper black level then T1/Chroma is the way to go.


----------



## MGF07

ufokillerz said:


> the blacks on the t1 are much darker to me. Contrast levels are much better on the t1. In a perfectly dark room, i would prefer the contrast on the t1. I have a open living room, and the extra brightness of the awol is needed. Color etc i can't comment since i'm not properly calibrated. They are both equally sharp with good colors to me.


I’m a big fan of black levels but my room is not at all light controlled… in fact I have a window not more than 6 feet away from the screen. Luckily I do have shutters but don’t necessarily want them closed when watching a football game.


----------



## MGF07

arsenalfc89 said:


> You can try using some velvet material on the borders. I have the Chroma and AWOL but I also saw the T1 which to me is a slightly better version of the Chroma so didn’t stay with the T1. Black level goes to the T1/Chroma easily but Sharpness and Color to the AWOL easily. Turing on active contrast and highly dynamic light in the AWOL significantly increases the black level from .08 to .03 (the T1/Chroma is at .01 for reference) and the contrast ratio from 1100:1 to 3200:1 range. I keep the dynamic light off as it changes the white balance (update to fix it is pending). To me the T1/Chroma is difficult to get an accurate image mostly due to the processing and limited color calibration but if you want deeper black level then T1/Chroma is the way to go.


Yeah, I’m hoping they hurry up and fix the dynamic light issue.

did you calibrate your 3500? If so, did you buy something or hire someone? Any recommendations?


----------



## arsenalfc89

MGF07 said:


> Yeah, I’m hoping they hurry up and fix the dynamic light issue.
> 
> did you calibrate your 3500? If so, did you buy something or hire someone? Any recommendations?


Calibrated myself with the help of some professionals. Definitely get someone to help you do it. It makes a big difference.


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> Try use custom settings and dial the sharpness down. I'm using test pattern and some video, found that sharpness at 10 is just nice.


Been there, done that.


----------



## cleverdevil

Anyone else have a hard time with focus? The interface they have isn’t conducive to finding the sweet spot, at least for me. Tips would be appreciated!

(still annoyed they decided to make a Facebook group the main place to interact with customers… I removed myself from that hellhole years ago!)


----------



## nixfiction

cleverdevil said:


> Anyone else have a hard time with focus? The interface they have isn’t conducive to finding the sweet spot, at least for me. Tips would be appreciated!
> 
> (still annoyed they decided to make a Facebook group the main place to interact with customers… I removed myself from that hellhole years ago!)


I can't offer any comments on focus as I"ve not used it yet. I just wanted to echo your comments on facebook. I refuse to be a part of that as well. 

@AWOLVision has been very responsive via email. They sent me a link to the beta files which apparently were posted over there as well.


----------



## amheck

for those of you that don't visit FB, here's an updated screen install video


----------



## Mikenificent1

arsenalfc89 said:


> Turing on active contrast and highly dynamic light in the AWOL significantly increases the black level from .08 to .03 (the T1/Chroma is at .01 for reference) and the contrast ratio from 1100:1 to 3200:1 range.


Are you comparing static contrast to dynamic contrast, or are both numbers static?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Mikenificent1 said:


> Are you comparing static contrast to dynamic contrast, or are both numbers static?


This is dynamic contrast.


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

Dave Harper said:


> The colors _“don’t look as nice on the AWOL” _because they’re damn near spot on accurate on the AWOL out of the box and the Fengmi I am sure is way overblown like just about every other consumer display out there.


My understanding is that the International version of the T1 has CMS controls. If this turns out to be the case, and they function as expected, does that, along with a proper calibration from a skilled practitioner, address the color accuracy issue on the T1?


----------



## humax

Scott Rosenberg said:


> My understanding is that the International version of the T1 has CMS controls. If this turns out to be the case, and they function as expected, does that, along with a proper calibration from a skilled practitioner, address the color accuracy issue on the T1?



Logically yes, but this is the first time a Xiaomi/Fengmi model has CMS controls, so someone has to test they actually work properly and can produce satisfactory results in color accuracy and greyscale. It is also likely the initial T1 android firmware will be quite buggy.


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

humax said:


> ...someone has to test they actually work properly and can produce satisfactory results in color accuracy and greyscale...


Thanks. I believe @ProjectionHead has his hands on an International T1 now and was potentially going to enlist @Dave Harper to assist in dialing it in. I'm sure we'll be hearing impressions once they've spent some time working with it.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

MGF07 said:


> Anyone tried a ceiling mount with a UST? I saw the thread discussion on the topic which didn’t sound like it went all that well.


Since no one replied to this, I will chime in.

It is generally not a good idea to ceiling mount an UST projector if you plan on using an ALR screen. This is because the screen is designed to reject light from the ceiling and walls when mounted normally. If you ceiling mounted the UST, you would have to also flip the screen or the light from the projector would be rejected. In this configuration, every time you turn on the lights, the light would be reflected, not rejected, which would wash out the image. This would defeat the purpose of having an ALR screen.

Here is an image from AWOL Vision's website showing the screen in the normal configuration.


----------



## EagerKeen

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> Since no one replied to this, I will chime in.
> 
> It is generally not a good idea to ceiling mount an UST projector if you plan on using an ALR screen. This is because the screen is designed to reject light from the ceiling and walls when mounted normally. If you ceiling mounted the UST, you would have to also flip the screen or the light from the projector would be rejected. In this configuration, every time you turn on the lights, the light would be reflected, not rejected, which would wash out the image. This would defeat the purpose of having an ALR screen.
> 
> Here is an image from AWOL Vision's website showing the screen in the normal configuration.
> View attachment 3273224


Where‘s the poblem to flip the screen?


----------



## Deaf-Forever

EagerKeen said:


> Where‘s the poblem to flip the screen?


There isnt until you turn a light on.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

EagerKeen said:


> Where‘s the poblem to flip the screen?


I guess I did not do a very good job explaining. I'll try again. 

Normally, the ALR screen *rejects *light from the ceiling and walls and *reflects *light from below. (See the picture in my previous post) So, if you turn on the lights, which are located on the ceiling, it will reject this light. Also, ambient light coming directly from the sides is also rejected as well as ambient light that reflects off of the white ceiling. This is all great when the UST is sitting below the screen

If you flip the screen and ceiling mount your UST, it is going to *reject *light from below and *reflect *light from above. The reflected light will include the light coming from the UST, (good), and the light coming directly from lights on the ceiling or ceiling reflected ambient light, (bad)

The reflected light from sources other than the UST are going to wash out your picture as if you did not have an ALR screen.


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

Deaf-Forever said:


> There isnt until you turn a light on.


Not entirely true. If you have a white ceiling, like most people, it is going to act as a reflector, and reflect ambient light coming from anywhere, (windows, doors, table lamp, etc...). If the ALR screen is flipped, that ambient light reflected by the ceiling is going to be reflected by the screen right at the viewing position. It probably won't be as bad as if you had a light on, but if the room is not darkened, it is still going to reflect light from the ceiling, no matter where it originated.


----------



## Brett Goolsby

Anyone have a decent source they’ve found for the black velvet that can be used around the screen or on the wall behind the screen?


----------



## amheck

Per awol on the FB group, new firmware is out now


----------



## Tomak Bolishnickov

amheck said:


> Per awol on the FB group, new firmware is out now


Sweet! Hopefully this will resolve the issue where you cannot restart the projector, (without unplugging it and plugging it back in), if you power it down via another device when CEC is enabled, or allow it to go to sleep.

Thanks for the update!


----------



## nixfiction

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> Sweet! Hopefully this will resolve the issue where you cannot restart the projector, (without unplugging it and plugging it back in), if you power it down via another device when CEC is enabled, or allow it to go to sleep.
> 
> Thanks for the update!


The beta firmware addresses this exact issue for me. It's listed in the release notes for the OTA firware as well.


----------



## arsenalfc89

New firmware is out and for those that don’t have Facebook below is the link to the release notes. Gotta say again their custom service and engineers are top notch. I’m surprised they added a separate WCG switch which will be great for calibration to SDR2020 and even better separate HDR image settings!! Still waiting for the update to dynamic light but AWOL have said it’s an issue with the TI chipset but they are working with them to get it fixed. 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...fAiE3QoM6keNG9TEyzZUlVNKJQk13BRX8n6Lfvnv-MvCg


----------



## EagerKeen

Tomak Bolishnickov said:


> I guess I did not do a very good job explaining. I'll try again.
> 
> Normally, the ALR screen *rejects *light from the ceiling and walls and *reflects *light from below. (See the picture in my previous post) So, if you turn on the lights, which are located on the ceiling, it will reject this light. Also, ambient light coming directly from the sides is also rejected as well as ambient light that reflects off of the white ceiling. This is all great when the UST is sitting below the screen
> 
> If you flip the screen and ceiling mount your UST, it is going to *reject *light from below and *reflect *light from above. The reflected light will include the light coming from the UST, (good), and the light coming directly from lights on the ceiling or ceiling reflected ambient light, (bad)
> 
> The reflected light from sources other than the UST are going to wash out your picture as if you did not have an ALR screen.


Correct, but it also depends what type of "ALR" screen you have.

Regular ALR screens doesn't even need to flipped.
CLR Screens would have the problem you explained (but to be honest, -hopefully- no real home cinema enthusiast would watch a projected image with ceiling lights on... )
Fresnel screens I wouldn't even turn, related to them you're absolutely right.


----------



## Brajesh

Does this projector support HDR10+? Anyone verified it?


----------



## EagerKeen

Brajesh said:


> Does this projector support HDR10+? Anyone verified it?


Yes, it does.
HLG, HDR10, HDR10+ is already supported and Dolby Vision comes via free update this summer.


----------



## Brajesh

Nice, thanks. Wish the price was closer to Fengmi T1.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

arsenalfc89 said:


> I’m wondering if the AWOL is just a repackaged Hisense L9G? Just like the Bokmaker was.


Seems like Hisense is helping them out on the hardware side of things, according to their co-founder: AWOL LTV-3500 ultra-short throw projector review: the bright stuff

"AWOL Vision is a new brand under Elevation Technology Partners started by co-founders Andy Zhao and Steven Shulman. It has its own in-house teams for software, support, and mechanical and Industrial engineering, Shulman tells me, but maintains a relationship with Hisense in China. Hisense introduced the world’s first laser TV back in 2014. Shulman tells me that AWOL owns the intellectual property for its branded projectors and has sole discretion to determine product pricing, sales, and service."


----------



## lewinr

Hi all, would appreciate your thoughts on the LTV-2500 vs 3500 versus any other options.

We're moving to a new house and I want to put a home theater into the basement.
There is not much ambient light, only a window around 4' x 3' that can be closed with a window blind and would be around 10' away from the screen and perpendicular to it. I think in the evening when we would usually watch there will not be much light.

Also would like to be able to watch 3D movies.

I wonder if the extra brightness of the 3500 vs the 2500 is worth it for me... I dont think so but I dont want to regret getting only the 2500 later.

Also I wonder about the lack of HDMI 2.1 ports. As I understand it having HDMI 2.0 ports only means that 4k content with HDR+ will have a maximum rate of 60hz, correct?

I have an AVR with a 7.2.2 speaker setup that I would use... does HDMI 2.0 support Atmos and 7.2.2 ?

thanks for your advice
Ron


----------



## nixfiction

lewinr said:


> Hi all, would appreciate your thoughts on the LTV-2500 vs 3500 versus any other options.
> We're moving to a new house and I want to put a home theatre into the basement.
> There is not much ambient light, only a window around 4' x 3' that can be closed with a window blind and would be around 10' away from the screen and perpendicular to it. I think in the evening when we would usually watch there will not be much light.
> 
> Also woudl like to be able to watch 3D movies.
> 
> I wonder if the extra brightness of the 3500 vs the 2500 is worth it for me... I dont think so but I dont want to regret getting only the 2500 later.
> 
> Also I wonder about the lack of HDMI 2.1 ports. As I understand it only means that 4k content with HDR+ would have a maximum rate of 60hz, correct?
> 
> I have an AVR with a 7.2.2 speaker setup that I would use... does HDMI 2.0 support Atmos and 7.2.2 ?
> 
> thanks for your advice
> Ron


I have a similar setup and this is my first projector. I only have a small basement window and I'm glad I went with the 3500 and a 120" screen. I run my nvidia shield / Sony x700 through my AVR (7.1.2) first and then to the AWOL. I've just had less issues in general with the signal chain in this manner. Essentially, let the AVR pass the video through versus trying to peal audio off with ARC/eARC. To be fair, I haven't tried it with the AWOL, but some of my other TV's seem to have issues with ARC.

I think they are supposed to deliver 3D as a software update. I also believe it has a 60hz refresh rate (confirmed n their guide - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0554/7445/4576/files/AWOL_Vision_Specifications.pdf?v=1641593588).


----------



## wphend00

QUESTION for the powers that be:

How do we change the primary HDMI from HDMI 1 to HDMI 3 (EARC)?
What exactly is an HD Fury?


----------



## nixfiction

wphend00 said:


> QUESTION for the powers that be:
> 
> How do we change the primary HDMI from HDMI 1 to HDMI 3 (EARC)?
> What exactly is an HD Fury?


Their manual seems to indicate that HDMI2 is eARC (page 28/29) - https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...ser_manual_for_AWOL_11-29V03.pdf?v=1648255980

Then they say you have to set the audio out to HDMI -> Menu path: [Settings] -> [Sound]-> [Output Device]

To set your primary HDMI connection -> Menu path: [Settings] -> [General]-> [Power Setting] ->[Default Source]


----------



## arsenalfc89

Top to bottom:

OLED, AWOL, AWOL with Dynamic Contrast turned on, AWOL with a random woman.


----------



## Cosinepi

arsenalfc89 said:


> Top to bottom:
> 
> OLED, AWOL, AWOL with Dynamic Contrast turned on, AWOL with a random woman.
> 
> View attachment 3278045
> View attachment 3278047
> View attachment 3278046
> View attachment 3278055


Does the white balance look off on the awol? Looks reddish compared to the OLED.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Cosinepi said:


> Does the white balance look off on the awol? Looks reddish compared to the OLED.


it’s the camera adding the red tint (wifey prefers the AWOL with Dynamic Contrast on over the OLED. I’m still on the fence on that). On the iPad it looks less red but on the phone you see it more. I just gave up on trying to remove it lol. If it still looks reddish on your end then it is what it is lol.


----------



## arsenalfc89

So was doing some quick testing at night (shout out to my wife for pointing this out). With Dynamic Contrast off the PQ looks somewhat similar to the OLED except the AWOL shows more detail and slightly better range of colors. Keep in mind my projector is calibrated. But what my wife noticed is with Dynamic Contrast on the colors pop a lot more to the point she prefers it over the OLED. The thing here is if you don’t calibrate the projector with Dynamic Contrast on, you’ll get significant black crush. But calibrating with any dynamic option on can skew the picture in a bad way. In the attached picture, the left is Dynamic on and the right is Dynamic off. This is after I tried to calibrate with higher black floor to eliminate some black crushing. Keep in mind this is day time as well.


----------



## amheck

Looks like 2nd batch is starting to ship. AWOL sent a msg out and I also got my tracking number - should be here Tuesday!!


----------



## ryu4000

amheck said:


> Looks like 2nd batch is starting to ship. AWOL sent a msg out and I also got my tracking number - should be here Tuesday!!


Same here beside they show monday for me so ready got my vividstorm in tomorrow and this Monday going be a hard weekend to wait for.


----------



## wphend00

REposting a question that I asked over on the other forum, here...

I have been using my AWOL 2500 with the VAVA VA-LTS006 screen sold at Walmart.
For reference, here is a link to the Screen I have...VA-LTS006

FYI, I have an AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen on the way (100 inch version).
(The AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen is here... but I am pondering whether or not to take it out of the box.. or ship it back).

Questions I have:

Are both of the AWOL screens higher quality and capable of providing better detail?
The AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen... will it provide decent viewing within a slightly lit room?
Will the AWOL ALR Cinematic screen help improve the black levels?
Has anyone gotten the chance to test out any of AWOL's screens with either the AWOL LT-2500 or LT-3500 projectors?


----------



## nixfiction

wphend00 said:


> REposting a question that I asked over on the other forum, here...
> 
> I have been using my AWOL 2500 with the VAVA VA-LTS006 screen sold at Walmart.
> For reference, here is a link to the Screen I have...VA-LTS006
> 
> FYI, I have an AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen on the way (100 inch version).
> (The AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen is here... but I am pondering whether or not to take it out of the box.. or ship it back).
> 
> Questions I have:
> 
> Are both of the AWOL screens higher quality and capable of providing better detail?
> The AWOL ALR Cinematic Screen... will it provide decent viewing within a slightly lit room?
> Will the AWOL ALR Cinematic screen help improve the black levels?
> Has anyone gotten the chance to test out any of AWOL's screens with either the AWOL LT-2500 or LT-3500 projectors?


I have the AWOL LTV-3500 and the 120" cinematic screen. I used my basement (drywall) wall for a week or so while waiting on the screen. The wall is painted a light blue/grey and more wavy then it appears. 

What I noticed right away with the screen is that there is less light bleed. Meaning I see less light on the ceiling with the screen than I did without it. More light is being reflected back at the viewer so it's a little brighter as well. In my opinion, the colors are more accurate as well which includes the blacks.

I also purchased some black fabric. In my scenario, the screen is in a cubby that's 18" deep. I plan to run the fabric above and on the side of the screen.

I watch it in the evening with only a lamp dimmed down. We watched "Spiderman - No way home" last weekend, and I am very happy with the purchase. The picture was/is decent with/without the screen, if I have the overhead lights on. I think the screen definately helps.

The other reason I went with their screen was that I wanted 120" and a low-ish gain. VAVA didn't have a 120" option at the time and other options had a slightly higher gain or price. Wouldn't that VAVA screen be very similar?


----------



## Brett Goolsby

Where did you find and get the black fabric?



QUOTE="nixfiction, post: 61670605, member: 9542752"]
I have the AWOL LTV-3500 and the 120" cinematic screen. I used my basement (drywall) wall for a week or so while waiting on the screen. The wall is painted a light blue/grey and more wavy then it appears.

What I noticed right away with the screen is that there is less light bleed. Meaning I see less light on the ceiling with the screen than I did without it. More light is being reflected back at the viewer so it's a little brighter as well. In my opinion, the colors are more accurate as well which includes the blacks.

I also purchased some black fabric. In my scenario, the screen is in a cubby that's 18" deep. I plan to run the fabric above and on the side of the screen.

I watch it in the evening with only a lamp dimmed down. We watched "Spiderman - No way home" last weekend, and I am very happy with the purchase. The picture was/is decent with/without the screen, if I have the overhead lights on. I think the screen definately helps.

The other reason I went with their screen was that I wanted 120" and a low-ish gain. VAVA didn't have a 120" option at the time and other options had a slightly higher gain or price. Wouldn't that VAVA screen be very similar?
[/QUOTE]


----------



## nixfiction

Brett Goolsby said:


> Where did you find and get the black fabric?
> 
> QUOTE="nixfiction, post: 61670605, member: 9542752"]


[/QUOTE]

I may regret not spending more time looking at options. I literally went in to JoAnn Fabrics (craft store) and picked out something that looked like it would absorbe light. They had quite a few black fabric options which ranged in price quite a bit. I don't have it hung up yet and went down to see if I could find the reciept, but no luck. I thought maybe it would say what kind of fabric it was.


----------



## ACE844

I may regret not spending more time looking at options. I literally went in to JoAnn Fabrics (craft store) and picked out something that looked like it would absorbe light. They had quite a few black fabric options which ranged in price quite a bit. I don't have it hung up yet and went down to see if I could find the reciept, but no luck. I thought maybe it would say what kind of fabric it was.
[/QUOTE]

If you really want to kill all light in that cubby space. This Singularity LT, 1 liter or the paint-based suspension of Vantablack from surrey labs will perform better than anything else out there. It's not cheap but it will quite literally create the closest thing to an earth-based 'blackhole' viewing environment possible if you did the whole room with it.

For your cubby they also sell smaller sizes than 1L, they also make a velvet cover as well Singular Velvet Applique&#769, 12x12" .


----------



## iwanrs

The Best matching SUBWOOVER for AWOL LTV3500, if I want to keep the original audio out of LTV3500?
I like big huge bass sound. Mainly For MOVIES WATCHING


----------



## iwanrs

No suggestion, please?


----------



## Demetri Zuev

iwanrs said:


> The Best matching SUBWOOVER for AWOL LTV3500, if I want to keep the original audio out of LTV3500?
> I like big huge bass sound. Mainly For MOVIES WATCHING


You can't go wrong with SVS subs, pick the one that suits your room in terms of size the best


----------



## lymzy

Is the 120" ALR screen included in the AWOL bundle good or it is better to purchase screen from other brand?


----------



## nixfiction

lymzy said:


> Is the 120" ALR screen included in the AWOL bundle good or it is better to purchase screen from other brand?


I don't have another screen to compare it to, but I'm glad I purchased it.


----------



## amheck

lymzy said:


> Is the 120" ALR screen included in the AWOL bundle good or it is better to purchase screen from other brand?


i asked the same thing before i purchased the Indiegogo bundle and never heard either way. It was nice just to have everything in one. I dont even know what my plan b would be if i decided to go with something else,


----------



## amheck

Does anyone have any ps5 settings they are using for darker games? I just got the screen up yesterday and am really having trouble setting details in many of my games. I’m not sure of its lack of brightness or lack of black level/detail but even with with all window blinds shut it just doesn't look all that good with dark content. Half of the time i can hardly make out anything,


----------



## feifeikeng

amheck said:


> Does anyone have any ps5 settings they are using for darker games? I just got the screen up yesterday and am really having trouble setting details in many of my games. I’m not sure of its lack of brightness or lack of black level/detail but even with with all window blinds shut it just doesn't look all that good with dark content. Half of the time i can hardly make out anything,


If it is an HDR game, try to increase the brightness of HDR. There are settings in the game to adjust the brightness of HDR.


----------



## arsenalfc89

amheck said:


> Does anyone have any ps5 settings they are using for darker games? I just got the screen up yesterday and am really having trouble setting details in many of my games. I’m not sure of its lack of brightness or lack of black level/detail but even with with all window blinds shut it just doesn't look all that good with dark content. Half of the time i can hardly make out anything,


Yeah sounds like HDR. The AWOL has separate HDR setting, look into that. Also set expectations accordingly because HDR on projectors are just naturally dimmer.


----------



## feifeikeng

arsenalfc89 said:


> Yeah sounds like HDR. The AWOL has separate HDR setting, look into that. Also set expectations accordingly because HDR on projectors are just naturally dimmer.


I have played a lot of games on PS5. The darker games are Blood borne, Ghost of Tsushima, Days gone, The last of us 1 and 2. It is really difficult to distinguish in some dark scenes, and there is no good environment. It's hard to enjoy the HDR effect under the control of light, and the adjustments that I can see noticeably change are:
1. Cancel the HDR output of PS5, use SDR instead, and adjust the brightness in USER mode
2. Adjust the brightness of HDR in PS5 or the HDR of the game and increase the exposure.
I did not do a careful comparison of the above settings of AWOL, because the game is fast paced, so I can't stop and adjust.
I've tried it in a closed dark house with just white walls and the HDR10 movie works great.


----------



## lewinr

Any idea if it is possible to use the built-in speaker in the AWOL for only the center channel?

I'm planning my installation and realize that I dont have a great place for the center channel except practically behind of or in front of the AWOL projector, which is not ideal.

Then I started thinking, "I read that AWOL has pretty good audio... maybe there's some way to use it as the center speaker?" I expect this would require some setting in the projector to use only the center channel in the audio stream and such a setting probably doesnt exist, but it would be cool if it could do that. 

(Note to AWOL if you're reading this: probably a relatively easy feature to implement and would save money for people who are not buying a ready set of atmos speakers...)


----------



## amheck

thanks for the thoughts on the game settings. Yes, Bloodbourne is one I'm having a lot of troubles with. I actually just finished Dying Light this weekend and started We Happy Few and all of the games I play tending to be the darker stuff, so this is going to be a real issue. I had no idea I might run into this many troubles. 

Here's a pic I sent AWOL support last nite from Bloodborne. I am in a bigger room with alot of windows and I have all of the horizonal blinds shut as best I can.

Even in bright/daylight gameplay environment, I'm not getting near the brightness and "pop" I was hoping for. I had to watch a few videos on YT to get me through some parts where I'm stuck and I've been surprised a few times how much details the game in the video I was watching had versus what I was seeing on my own screen.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Is your screen upside down?


----------



## amheck

BatmanNewsChris said:


> Is your screen upside down?


99% sure the sticker "this side down" on the back of the screen is on the bottom. When I look at the screen from down below, its white. When I stand on a chair and look down at the screen, its black. that's correct, right?


----------



## ryu4000

How does it look with the lights off.That just seems horrible with the lights on mine not that bad.It looks like it's not rejecting any light at all.


----------



## amheck

ryu4000 said:


> How does it look with the lights off.That just seems horrible with the lights on mine not that bad.It looks like it's not rejecting any light at all.


All lights are off, its as dark as I can get it. What you are seeing is sunlight sneaking around the cheap horizontal blinds. I was so deflated yesterday that I didn't come back to check after the sun went down but I will do that tonight. I tested after sun-down the first couple nights with TV/netflix, etc and I definitely didn't have the brightness and pop I was hoping for. I was hoping the existing blinds would be good since this is about the brightest UST you can get but I think I'm going to have to look at some blackout blinds, either that or just cut my loses and go for a 77" OLED or 85 LCD. 

AWOL did say they are checking the unit (via serial number) as each is tested for brightness before they leave the factory. What's weird is that the opening animation when the unit boots up is super bright and colorful, kind of what I had in my mind my material would look like. AWOL support has been great though, I just may have the wrong environment for this sort of technology.


----------



## humax

amheck said:


> I was hoping the existing blinds would be good since this is about the brightest UST you can get



This is the brightest tri-laser right now, not the brightest UST in general. For your use, I would seriously consider the ultra high gain MirraViz screen. It is only 100" and expensive though, but you will get best daylight performance possible today with an UST.

MirraViz vs. Fresnel Comparison - YouTube


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

amheck said:


> 99% sure the sticker "this side down" on the back of the screen is on the bottom. When I look at the screen from down below, its white. When I stand on a chair and look down at the screen, its black. that's correct, right?


That sounds like it's upside down to me. It shouldn't look white when you're looking at it straight on.


----------



## arsenalfc89

amheck said:


> thanks for the thoughts on the game settings. Yes, Bloodbourne is one I'm having a lot of troubles with. I actually just finished Dying Light this weekend and started We Happy Few and all of the games I play tending to be the darker stuff, so this is going to be a real issue. I had no idea I might run into this many troubles.
> 
> Here's a pic I sent AWOL support last nite from Bloodborne. I am in a bigger room with alot of windows and I have all of the horizonal blinds shut as best I can.
> 
> Even in bright/daylight gameplay environment, I'm not getting near the brightness and "pop" I was hoping for. I had to watch a few videos on YT to get me through some parts where I'm stuck and I've been surprised a few times how much details the game in the video I was watching had versus what I was seeing on my own screen.
> 
> View attachment 3284807


This may be upside down. I have 3 huge blinds facing my projector and it doesn’t look like yours.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Cosinepi said:


> Does the white balance look off on the awol? Looks reddish compared to the OLED.


Triple laser projectors are notoriously difficult to capture accurately and often look red in photos.


----------



## ryu4000

ProjectionHead said:


> Triple laser projectors are notoriously difficult to capture accurately and often look red in photos.


I agree i did some photos but they never turn out what it looks like just a hint of red which is not visible on the screen.How we go about capturing it without this red tint?


----------



## DunMunro

ryu4000 said:


> I agree i did some photos but they never turn out what it looks like just a hint of red which is not visible on the screen.How we go about capturing it without this red tint?
> View attachment 3290338
> 
> View attachment 3290336
> 
> View attachment 3290339
> 
> View attachment 3290341
> 
> View attachment 3290340
> 
> View attachment 3290337


Shutter speed is critical in getting a balanced photo. I would experiment with shutter speeds from 1/15 to 1/60 to see what works best.


----------



## Dave Harper

Scott Rosenberg said:


> My understanding is that the International version of the T1 has CMS controls. If this turns out to be the case, and they function as expected, does that, along with a proper calibration from a skilled practitioner, address the color accuracy issue on the T1?





humax said:


> Logically yes, but this is the first time a Xiaomi/Fengmi model has CMS controls, so someone has to test they actually work properly and can produce satisfactory results in color accuracy and greyscale. It is also likely the initial T1 android firmware will be quite buggy.


It’s definitely better than the Chinese version, but not near as good as the AWOL yet. After calibration, the image is very dark because you have to really crank down the blue and green, which attribute to brightness. 



Scott Rosenberg said:


> Thanks. I believe @ProjectionHead has his hands on an International T1 now and was potentially going to enlist @Dave Harper to assist in dialing it in. I'm sure we'll be hearing impressions once they've spent some time working with it.


I just put the global version through its paces since last Thursday and turned in a rough draft today. 



EagerKeen said:


> Yes, it does.
> HLG, HDR10, HDR10+ is already supported and Dolby Vision comes via free update this summer.


I discovered that if you put an HDFURY inline with the hdmi and set a DV/LLDV EDID in it, then when you send raw LLDV to the AWOL, it will recognize it as Dolby Vision and react accordingly with a DV label and it’s internal settings. 

It must be in the latest FW’s EDID, but just hidden. 



ProjectionHead said:


> Triple laser projectors are notoriously difficult to capture accurately and often look red in photos.


This is because most cameras can’t capture the wider green and blue BT2020 gamut fully, leaving a deficiency in these colors when captured, making red seem more predominant due to the lack of green and blue. 

Sometimes the camera can do a wider blue so you see more of a purplish tint due to lack of green only.


----------



## lewinr

What are people using to color calibrate the AWOL projectors? Would appreciate some advice on DIY calibration, and if it requires a device then something that is reasonably priced...

thanks!


----------



## rjyap

lewinr said:


> What are people using to color calibrate the AWOL projectors? Would appreciate some advice on DIY calibration, and if it requires a device then something that is reasonably priced...
> 
> thanks!


I would advice you get a certified calibrator with the right tools to do the job. The spectrometer to profile a tri-laser projector is not cheap and for average users, I don't see how it can be economical plus the learning curve needed to fine tune the color. Or if you really want to, get a colorimeter such as i1 Display Pro and find a calibrator with less than 5nm spectrometer to profile your colorimeter. Once you have the reference profile, you can tune your projector in the future for accurate colors.


----------



## higuys

I still don’t have a UST projector yet but this one really looks amazing from the pictures posted.


----------



## arsenalfc89

lewinr said:


> What are people using to color calibrate the AWOL projectors? Would appreciate some advice on DIY calibration, and if it requires a device then something that is reasonably priced...
> 
> thanks!


@rjyap is right you'll need a special probe/spectrometer since this is a tri-laser. You're better off hiring someone. If that's too costly you can get a idispaly pro 3 and a paid software like Colourspace, Calman, or Chromapure. This will not be as accurate using the iD3 but the image is still VERY good. If you don't want to pay for a software then HCFR is an option but then you'll have to learn how to use it. The good thing about the AWOL is that it's very easy to calibrate even if you don’t have the paid softwares. You can get away with just calibrating the white balance, which you can easily do with HCFR.


----------



## Brajesh

Does the 3500 have 3D support or not? It says so in this review.


----------



## ryu4000

Brajesh said:


> Does the 3500 have 3D support or not? It says so in this review.
> 
> View attachment 3291594


Not yet but it's set to release this summer along with Dolby vision update. I figure it be next month since hisense support to release this month


----------



## lehorn

I finally set everything up, projector and screen. Does someone else have issues with the text not being sharp in the top part of the picture? Is there any way to adjust it? Thank you.


----------



## nixfiction

lehorn said:


> I finally set everything up, projector and screen. Does someone else have issues with the text not being sharp in the top part of the picture? Is there any way to adjust it? Thank you.


I believe that I had to Focus mine; *[Settings] -> [Light] -> [Focus]*


----------



## arsenalfc89

Watching RRR on Netflix, don't know why lol but the amazing image quality this projector puts out is still shocking to me.


----------



## steevo123

Why is this ust worth 2 grand more than the Hisense px1-pro ? Im not trolling - Id actually like to know .


----------



## nixfiction

steevo123 said:


> Why is this ust worth 2 grand more than the Hisense px1-pro ? Im not trolling - Id actually like to know .


IMHO the LTV-*2500* is more on par with the px1-pro. At least from a brightness and price perspective. The LTV-*3500* is more like the Hisense L9G.


----------



## Dave Harper

nixfiction said:


> …….. The LTV-*3500* is more like the Hisense L9G.


But more accurate!


----------



## lewinr

Does anybody have any experience with using they keystone correction and how much it affects the image quality?
I'm planning on mounting my projector on the ceiling to ensure the my kids arent able to move it or touch the lens. 
But if I mount the projector right on the ceiling then the image (with 120" screen) will be 17" below the ceiling. I dont want to it that low.
So I'm thinking of angling the projector slighting up to move the image towards the top of the ceiling. 
That will create a keystone problem, which I'll need to correct with the projector's digital keystone correction.
I'm wondering how badly that will affect my image quality...


----------



## Nuno Campos

lewinr said:


> Does anybody have any experience with using they keystone correction and how much it affects the image quality?
> I'm planning on mounting my projector on the ceiling to ensure the my kids arent able to move it or touch the lens.
> But if I mount the projector right on the ceiling then the image (with 120" screen) will be 17" below the ceiling. I dont want to it that low.
> So I'm thinking of angling the projector slighting up to move the image towards the top of the ceiling.
> That will create a keystone problem, which I'll need to correct with the projector's digital keystone correction.
> I'm wondering how badly that will affect my image quality...


You know that if you ceiling mount a ust projector you’ll need to flip the screen upside down and that will completely negate the benefits of having a alr/clr screen since now the image is also coming from above.


----------



## Odysea

If the image is coming from above, and you flip the CLR screen… wouldn’t it now reduce light from the ground/below?


----------



## Deaf-Forever

Odysea said:


> If the image is coming from above, and you flip the CLR screen… wouldn’t it now reduce light from the ground/below?


Very beneficial for lights and windows located in the floor and low wall....


----------



## Odysea

I never have lights on while using my projector, so no worries there. As for windows, they’re smack dab in the middle.

I guess I fail to see your point, for my environment anyway. Maybe others have different setups.

Edit: actually, it might be MORE beneficial as I also have walkout doors/windows which goes from the bottom to midway to the ceiling 😂

I guess I would have to try it out to see precisely. But I think a flipped CLR with a flipped projector would still be useful


----------



## lewinr

It's probably obvious but I can't find it: how can I change the default input used on start-up?
My AVR is connected to HDMI-2 (to have eARC) and I dont have anything connected to HDMI-1.
But everytime the projector starts-up it complains that it cannot find a signal on HDMI-1 even with the AVR turned on and connected to HDMI-2.
How can I set the projector to default to HDMI-2 on startup?


----------



## nixfiction

lewinr said:


> It's probably obvious but I can't find it: how can I change the default input used on start-up?
> My AVR is connected to HDMI-2 (to have eARC) and I dont have anything connected to HDMI-1.
> But everytime the projector starts-up it complains that it cannot find a signal on HDMI-1 even with the AVR turned on and connected to HDMI-2.
> How can I set the projector to default to HDMI-2 on startup?


To set your primary HDMI connection -> Menu path: [Settings] -> [General]-> [Power Setting] ->[Default Source]


----------



## TBON512

lewinr said:


> Does anybody have any experience with using they keystone correction and how much it affects the image quality?
> I'm planning on mounting my projector on the ceiling to ensure the my kids arent able to move it or touch the lens.
> But if I mount the projector right on the ceiling then the image (with 120" screen) will be 17" below the ceiling. I dont want to it that low.
> So I'm thinking of angling the projector slighting up to move the image towards the top of the ceiling.
> That will create a keystone problem, which I'll need to correct with the projector's digital keystone correction.
> I'm wondering how badly that will affect my image quality...


This would not work out well and would be very difficult. First, the image alignment is Very sensitive to slight movements because it is so close to the screen. Therefore, doing it from a ceiling mount will be a challenge, especially since you have no lens shift in any direction and no true keystone adjustment. The "keystone" on these is just for fine tuning the edge alignment to the edge of the screen and does not have a very large adjustment - maybe an inch to an inch and a half in any direction on each side at 120". As far as image quality, the adjustment that is available does very well without introducing any visible distortion, but you would not be able to move the image vertically very much by projecting at an angle, because the horizontal error would quickly exceed the adjustment range.


----------



## lewinr

TBON512 said:


> This would not work out well and would be very difficult. First, the image alignment is Very sensitive to slight movements because it is so close to the screen. Therefore, doing it from a ceiling mount will be a challenge, especially since you have no lens shift in any direction and no true keystone adjustment. The "keystone" on these is just for fine tuning the edge alignment to the edge of the screen and does not have a very large adjustment - maybe an inch to an inch and a half in any direction on each side at 120". As far as image quality, the adjustment that is available does very well without introducing any visible distortion, but you would not be able to move the image vertically very much by projecting at an angle, because the horizontal error would quickly exceed the adjustment range.


Yeah, I already gave up on this idea.


----------



## ProjectionHead

AWOL Vision just announced 3D beta: AWOL Vision | Official Projector Community | Facebook


----------



## amheck

I noticed there was no mention of any other promised features in this particular release


----------



## ProjectionHead

amheck said:


> I noticed there was no mention of any other promised features in this particular release


Their DV is in beta as well. What else did they promise?


----------



## amheck

DV was the only thing I was waiting on. I hadn't seen any mention of that being released and assumed that both would be in the same update (3d and DV)


----------



## ufokillerz

ProjectionHead said:


> Their DV is in beta as well. What else did they promise?


fingers crossed on DV, probably the feature i am looking towards the most


----------



## ProjectionHead

amheck said:


> DV was the only thing I was waiting on. I hadn't seen any mention of that being released and assumed that both would be in the same update (3d and DV)


The 3D isn't a release yet, its a beta for a select number of individuals, as was the DV. Once they are confident on them, it will be released to the general public.


----------



## amheck

ProjectionHead said:


> The 3D isn't a release yet, its a beta for a select number of individuals, as was the DV. Once they are confident on them, it will be released to the general public.


by "released" I mean the beta firmware. I see mention of the 3d test in their FB group but nothing of the DV beta firmware for whatever reason.


----------



## ufokillerz

did they ever fix the high dynamic shift? where the whole screen goes darker then intended?


----------



## clipghost

How are people liking their AWOL's?


----------



## nixfiction

clipghost said:


> How are people liking their AWOL's?


I have the 3500 and 120" cinematic screen from AWOL. First projector and I'm super happy with it. It's in my basement and I watch it almost everyday.


----------



## clipghost

nixfiction said:


> I have the 3500 and 120" cinematic screen from AWOL. First projector and I'm super happy with it. It's in my basement and I watch it almost everyday.


Any comments on day time use? For someone with a not light controlled environment?


----------



## arsenalfc89

clipghost said:


> How are people liking their AWOL's?


It’s been my TV replacement. Very happy.


----------



## nixfiction

clipghost said:


> Any comments on day time use? For someone with a not light controlled environment?


I didn't really comment because my environment is a basement with only one 2x2' window. Day time or even with the lights on in my environment is pretty good honestly. I have not covered the basement window with any treatment or blocked the light in any way. I think if it wasn't as good as it is I would have done that. Being my first projector I don't have much to compare to, but I would have done it again. I rarely watch the 75" Vizio in my living room anymore.

Not sure what daytime viewing environment you have. Hope the above helps.


----------



## bradyman

clipghost said:


> Any comments on day time use? For someone with a not light controlled environment?


 I have 2x 58" square windows opposite the screen (windows face east) and it works quite well with a clr screen from elite. Just regular slat blinds. It's pretty great.


----------



## clipghost

bradyman said:


> I have 2x 58" square windows opposite the screen (windows face east) and it works quite well with a clr screen from elite. Just regular slat blinds. It's pretty great.


Which screen are you using? Got any pictures?


----------



## Brajesh

Anyone on the beta list who've tested 3D? How's it coming along?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Anyone on the beta list who've tested 3D? How's it coming along?


I'm one of 10 in the Beta group. Still waiting on it to test. Hopefully I'll be able to provide more info. Had to sign some form of an NDA. 

I've had my 3500 less than a week and it had my jaw dropping from the get go with nits to spare. I'm currently getting around 225 nits in a 120" .8 gain XY PET screen. Its lowest light output is about the same as my A300 and the colors... WOWEEE WOW🌈🎨!!! Planet Earth 2 and The Matrix look beautiful in BT2020. I'm now convinced that 200+ nits is the way to go for HDR on a projector, even in a dark light controlled room.

I can't wait to see what 3D looks like on this thing. I'm guessing it will look like 100 nits...plenty bright for SDR😎


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> I'm one of 10 in the Beta group. Still waiting on it to test. Hopefully I'll be able to provide more info. Had to sign some form of an NDA.
> 
> I've had my 3500 less than a week and it had my jaw dropping from the get go with nits to spare. I'm currently getting around 225 nits in a 120" .8 gain XY PET screen. Its lowest light output is about the same as my A300 and the colors... WOWEEE WOW🌈🎨!!! Planet Earth 2 and The Matrix look beautiful in BT2020. I'm now convinced that 200+ nits is the way to go for HDR on a projector, even in a dark light controlled room.
> 
> I can't wait to see what 3D looks like on this thing. I'm guessing it will look like 100 nits...plenty bright for SDR😎


That‘s a lot of nits! Its shocking when viewing it the first time and same here had to really dim and crush the blacks to match the highest output on my previous ust’s LOL. Anything lower than 80 nits on a projector to me, just stick with SDR. For kicks my Vava calibrated to a 2.2 gamma was hitting 45nits and my AWOL targeting 2.4 gamma is hitting 87- 90 nits on a .6 gain screen. The results are better perceived contrast during the day or night.


----------



## clipghost

Casey_Bryson said:


> I'm one of 10 in the Beta group. Still waiting on it to test. Hopefully I'll be able to provide more info. Had to sign some form of an NDA.
> 
> I've had my 3500 less than a week and it had my jaw dropping from the get go with nits to spare. I'm currently getting around 225 nits in a 120" .8 gain XY PET screen. Its lowest light output is about the same as my A300 and the colors... WOWEEE WOW🌈🎨!!! Planet Earth 2 and The Matrix look beautiful in BT2020. I'm now convinced that 200+ nits is the way to go for HDR on a projector, even in a dark light controlled room.
> 
> I can't wait to see what 3D looks like on this thing. I'm guessing it will look like 100 nits...plenty bright for SDR😎


Mind posting some pictures of your setup at night and day time? Basically what I would be looking to do.


----------



## Brajesh

Casey, how are you finding blacks & contrast compared to A300?

When 3D & DV officially come to AWOL, I may go awol on my current setup again & hop over .


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ufokillerz said:


> did they ever fix the high dynamic shift? where the whole screen goes darker then intended?


I will answer this soon as it relates to the latest firmware (April 2022). I've watched a few movies with High and Low Dynamic but want to make sure I cover the whole gamut ;-) of how it looks with various settings across various MaxFall and MaxCLL gradings. There are mixed results, but Low appears to be very promising if you're okay with a few caveats.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

clipghost said:


> Mind posting some pictures of your setup at night and day time? Basically what I would be looking to do.


Sure, bare with me. I have a lot going on right now, but will take a few pics soon. My profile pic should sufffice for the my point of view sans the AWOL; it's an old pic with my Fengmi 4k Cinema.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Casey, how are you finding blacks & contrast compared to A300?
> 
> When 3D & DV officially come to AWOL, I may go awol on my current setup again & hop over .


First let me give a brief update regarding other Beta testers that have received the 3D beta firware: reports are VERY postivie with MASSIVE improvements over other UST 3D capibilites, mainly due to the superior lumens and WCG presented by the RGB lasers of the 3500.

Regarding Black level and Contrast Versus A300/ALPD 3000+:1 native contrast:
Let me watch a few more HDR and SDR movies. So far so good and the benefits are outweighing the negatives thus far. Just watched Prey with plenty of low APL scenes (1-50 nits HDR). Very Promising compared to my previous experience with the Optoma P2 and it's unacceptable dynamic laser dimming with copper laden scenes. Many thanks to @arsenalfc89 for letting me know in his previous posts that the AWOL has laser dimming--I had no idea. My P2 looked great with low APL inside the scene, but between it was a copper jolting mess. Early returns suggest a cooler color temperature will mitigate some of the Dynamic Contrast issues for most APL scenes, since the AWOL-3500 seems to track cooler the dimmer it gets.


----------



## j-0

I do apologize for sounding lazy. I went through quite a bit of this thread, but couldn't find an answer.

Did anyone here professionally calibrate their AWOL and share their settings (I realize copy-pasting wouldn't give the same effect due to screen differences, but still, I figured it would be a good starting point..)

Also, the Dolby Vision beta is not released yet, correct?


----------



## nixfiction

j-0 said:


> I do apologize for sounding lazy. I went through quite a bit of this thread, but couldn't find an answer.
> 
> Did anyone here professionally calibrate their AWOL and share their settings (I realize copy-pasting wouldn't give the same effect due to screen differences, but still, I figured it would be a good starting point..)
> 
> Also, the Dolby Vision beta is not released yet, correct?


I'm not in the current beta but according to the reply (link) from @ProjectionHead it sounds like DV is part of this beta firmware as well? Not released to the general public yet, but a beta is closer than no beta at all.


----------



## DunMunro

Joelster reviews the AWOL Tri-chroma UST:


----------



## Brajesh

Looks like 3D is working well. Hope DV will follow soon. I'd consider the LTV-3500 if it was closer to$4K.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Looks like 3D is working well. Hope DV will follow soon. I'd consider the LTV-3500 if it was closer to$4K.


There was that deal with the screen they had during labor day that made it NOT BAD....but again the Formovie seems like still better?


----------



## Nazgul

Brajesh said:


> Looks like 3D is working well. Hope DV will follow soon. I'd consider the LTV-3500 if it was closer to$4K.


Yeah I mean a few months ago it was like $3.2k, $5k is just bonkers. :-/


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## leo0111127

Nice review, createive design to support Netflix well. Other projectors built in android os can not support my favorite Netflix.


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## Casey_Bryson

clipghost said:


> There was that deal with the screen they had during labor day that made it NOT BAD....but again the Formovie seems like still better?





Nazgul said:


> Yeah I mean a few months ago it was like $3.2k, $5k is just bonkers. :-/



There are online retailers selling for less that 4.5K and shipping from US. I think it's a better value than the Hisense L9G considering it isn't limited to 100" or 120", has a higher lumen output (500?) and is the only UST over 2600 calibrated lumens with 3D.

I think if you don't need 3000+ lumens and (prefer the lower black level that comes with that) or 3D then go with the Formovie Theater. For me the virbrant, stunning, punchy, picture provided by the AWOL 3500 sold me. Once I saw it in person, I couldn't go back-- coming from over 3 years of Fengmi/Formovie ownership of their single laser UST @ around 2000 lumens/115 nits and 3000:1 native contrast.


----------



## nixfiction

Casey_Bryson said:


> There are online retailers selling for less that 4.5K and shipping from US. I think it's a better value than the Hisense L9G considering it isn't limited to 100" or 120", has a higher lumen output (500?) and is the only UST over 2600 calibrated lumens with 3D.
> 
> I think if you don't need 3000+ lumens and (prefer the lower black level that comes with that) or 3D then go with the Formovie Theater. For me the virbrant, stunning, punchy, picture provided by the AWOL 3500 sold me. Once I saw it in person, I couldn't go back-- coming from over 3 years of Fengmi/Formovie ownership of their single laser UST @ around 2000 lumens/115 nits and 3000:1 native contrast.


I just saw they are offering 20% off the LTV-2500 with or without a screen bundle.


----------



## bleuiko

Been enjoying my LTV-3500 and 120" Vividstorm ALR screen bundle from AWOL Vision. Everything working perfectly and bright enough during the day with the windows open even. Hue sync lights running behind the projector screen hooked up to a TV (didn't get a chance to turn it off... though the effect is pretty nice).


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## leo0111127

LTV-3500, the best choice for living room, the giant screen TV solution not only projector.
Did you place the central speaker on the top of LTV-3500?


----------



## bleuiko

leo0111127 said:


> LTV-3500, the best choice for living room, the giant screen TV solution not only projector.
> Did you place the central speaker on the top of LTV-3500?


I was originally considering that but there’s no room as the projector lens is far back. I have it on yoga blocks in the photo but I’m going to find a stand for it and it will go in front of the projector.


----------



## DunMunro

An AWOL LTV-2500 review:









Test Awol Vision LTV 2500 - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Awol Vision LTV 2500




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Nazgul

Question to those who have this, does it have a focus issue like the GT1 (Global T1) where at higher screen size (say over 120") corners start losing focus? I have a 145" screen and mildly concerned about the focus issues reported on the GT1 at higher screen sizes, so considering alternatives should it be too much for me.


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## Brajesh

I have a 145" screen as well. Focus on the top for Formovie Theater (GT1), especially edges, could be better, but they're acceptable and unnoticeable in viewing actual content.


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## colinmatheny11

DunMunro said:


> An AWOL LTV-2500 review:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Awol Vision LTV 2500 - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Awol Vision LTV 2500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Not a glowing review… I wish that these newer USTs had 3D.

If the Formovie had 3D it would be a no brainer purchase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nazgul

colinmatheny11 said:


> Not a glowing review… I wish that these newer USTs had 3D.
> 
> If the Formovie had 3D it would be a no brainer purchase.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just curious, is 3D like insanely mind-blowing on projectors? Coming from conventional TV's I never see anyone talk about or mention 3D, but I see it not infrequently with projectors. Am I missing something? Are there like a ton of 3D movies out there that I'm not aware of or are 3D projectors somehow making Non-3D movies 3D?


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## Nazgul

Brajesh said:


> I have a 145" screen as well. Focus on the top for Formovie Theater (GT1), especially edges, could be better, but they're acceptable and unnoticeable in viewing actual content.


That's good to know, I'm actually far less worried about watching shows/movies than I am about gaming and if there is text up there.


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## Casey_Bryson

colinmatheny11 said:


> Not a glowing review… I wish that these newer USTs had 3D.
> 
> If the Formovie had 3D it would be a no brainer purchase.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


His unit had issues. His biggest complaint was native contrast and took a while to calibrate. Dave Harper had the opposite experience and also tested at 2597 lumens versus just while kraine tested around 2000 max. AWOL guarantees 2600. So he had a unit that was clearly out of spec. 

One more thing: kraine preferred the P1, with its laser dimming dynamic contrast to ALPD projector's superior native contrast 3 years ago--now his preference has reversed. 

I bet if he reviewed the LTV-3500 his tune would change. Mine required little calibration and the laser dimming does the job. He tested it at astound 2500:1 on the LTV-2500 and usually contrast improves with more lumens. The LTV-3500 has 3600 lumens. 

I get his preference since I come from that side of the fence (contrast is king) and a huge ALPD fanboy, but I just can't believe he'd not give it his highest recommendation, if given a good unit and their flagship model.


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## colinmatheny11

Hopefully so!

I’ve got an old Viewsonic LS820 now and it’s honestly not a bad projector but it’s certainly dated. HDMI 1.4, 1080p max. Also it never got great reviews for 3D either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rjyap

Nazgul said:


> Just curious, is 3D like insanely mind-blowing on projectors? Coming from conventional TV's I never see anyone talk about or mention 3D, but I see it not infrequently with projectors. Am I missing something? Are there like a ton of 3D movies out there that I'm not aware of or are 3D projectors somehow making Non-3D movies 3D?


3D effect very much depend on the movie. If done well, it's mind blowing especially on projector due to life-like size. On 65" TV, I feel like looking at miniature object. If you wish for 3D, I would suggest go for 3500 lumens model due to active 3D glasses that will block 70% of light.


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## heavyharmonies

rjyap said:


> If you wish for 3D, I would suggest go for 3500 lumens model due to active 3D glasses that will block 70% of light.


Wait, there's a 70% reduction in brightness when you turn on 3D? How is that even usable?


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## rjyap

heavyharmonies said:


> Wait, there's a 70% reduction in brightness when you turn on 3D? How is that even usable?


70% reduction is not from projector but due to active shutter glasses. Each eye only see 50% of the light due to alternate L/R frame in 120hz. Also, there's timing issue where both eye are close to reduce ghosting and LCD panel light transmittance. Personally, I prefer VR goggles for 3D viewing as no brightness reduction and both eyes images are display simultaneously.


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## kraine

Actually, the brightness claim officially by Awol for the 2500 is 2000 lumens. I don’t think that my unit was defective because of my brightness measurements.
The real issues are the bad contrast and the high level of chromatic aberrations.

Quoted from Awol official website :

LTV-2500 has exactly the same performance as the LTV-3500 except for brightness! With True 2000 ANSI Lumens, If you want a UST projector with top performance in color, image and details that used in a controlled light environment


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## Casey_Bryson

kraine said:


> Actually, the brightness claim officially by Awol for the 2500 is 2000 lumens. I don’t think that my unit was defective because of my brightness measurements.
> The real issues are the bad contrast and the high level of chromatic aberrations.
> 
> Quoted from Awol official website :
> 
> LTV-2500 has exactly the same performance as the LTV-3500 except for brightness! With True 2000 ANSI Lumens, If you want a UST projector with top performance in color, image and details that used in a controlled light environment


You're right. That's what their official specs state as well. However, during their recent Labor day sale they guaranteed 2600 lumens and it doesn't take away from the fact that Dave Harper tested it as such. 

Perhaps they named it The 2500 and expecting 2500+ lumens, but for some reason couldn't get a high enough yield in production. It reminds me of the A300 quite frankly so buyer beware that some get ~2600 while others get ~2000.

I guess their marketing department was overstating things OR they had a good batch for that sale.


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## Casey_Bryson

So @kraine what do you think of the laser dimming and the dynamic contrast offered there?

Normally I find High Dynamic unwatchable, but last night I watched the excellent horror/ who dunnit movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies in High Dynamic and didn't have a single issue--the contrast was spectacular and because of the increased contrast the perceived black level it was even better than my ALPD projectors.

Laser Dimming, when done right is very good and even better than just straight native for low APL scenes. I saw this with my P2 and now my AWOL. What are your thoughts?


----------



## Dave Harper

Casey_Bryson said:


> You're right. That's what their official specs state as well. However, during their recent Labor day sale they guaranteed 2600 lumens and it doesn't take away from the fact that Dave Harper tested it as such.
> 
> Perhaps they named it The 2500 and expecting 2500+ lumens, but for some reason couldn't get a high enough yield in production. It reminds me of the A300 quite frankly so buyer beware that some get ~2600 while others get ~2000.
> 
> I guess their marketing department was overstating things OR they had a good batch for that sale.


Mine may have been center lumens and his ANSI?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> So @kraine what do you think of the laser dimming and the dynamic contrast offered there?
> 
> Normally I find High Dynamic unwatchable, but last night I watched the excellent horror/ who dunnit movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies in High Dynamic and didn't have a single issue--the contrast was spectacular and because of the increased contrast the perceived black level it was even better than my ALPD projectors.
> 
> Laser Dimming, when done right is very good and even better than just straight native for low APL scenes. I saw this with my P2 and now my AWOL. What are your thoughts?


I agree with you here. I think on most if not all projectors laser dimming is needed including the JVC. I used high dynamic on the 3500 before and it does significantly reduce the black floor to ALPD levels roughly ~.04 nit on my last measurement with better perceived contrast due to the higher lumens (that's probably why it looks better to you). At the time tho I did notice it changes the white point slightly, not sure if that is still the case as I now use the Lumagen with the 3500 so no need for high dynamic anymore.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> I agree with you here. I think on most if not all projectors laser dimming is needed including the JVC. I used high dynamic on the 3500 before and it does significantly reduce the black floor to ALPD levels roughly ~.04 nit on my last measurement with better perceived contrast due to the higher lumens (that's probably why it looks better to you). At the time tho I did notice it changes the white point slightly, not sure if that is still the case as I now use the Lumagen with the 3500 so no need for high dynamic anymore.


How does a Lumagen add to the black level and contrast of low APL scenes? I use MadVR PC, but it's not a feature that I know of.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> How does a Lumagen add to the black level and contrast of low APL scenes? I use MadVR PC, but it's not a feature that I know of.


The Lumagen doesn’t change the black floor much but the combination of a 3D LUT and the Lumagen DTM significantly changes the perceived contrast, increases shadow detail without increasing the black floor so this all gives off darker blacks even tho it actually doesn’t measure significantly darker. Also using a dynamic system interferes with the Lumagen intended DTM parameter’s.


----------



## leo0111127

kraine said:


> Actually, the brightness claim officially by Awol for the 2500 is 2000 lumens. I don’t think that my unit was defective because of my brightness measurements.
> The real issues are the bad contrast and the high level of chromatic aberrations.
> 
> Quoted from Awol official website :
> 
> LTV-2500 has exactly the same performance as the LTV-3500 except for brightness! With True 2000 ANSI Lumens, If you want a UST projector with top performance in color, image and details that used in a controlled light environment


Contact to AWOL Vision directly for test results troubleshooting or clarification, not by the seller NothingButLabel who is selling many brands projectors, maybe the big distributor for Formvovie Theater.


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## leo0111127

Casey_Bryson said:


> You're right. That's what their official specs state as well. However, during their recent Labor day sale they guaranteed 2600 lumens and it doesn't take away from the fact that Dave Harper tested it as such.
> 
> Perhaps they named it The 2500 and expecting 2500+ lumens, but for some reason couldn't get a high enough yield in production. It reminds me of the A300 quite frankly so buyer beware that some get ~2600 while others get ~2000.
> 
> I guess their marketing department was overstating things OR they had a good batch for that sale.


The ProjectorScreen's measued data is central lumen, the LTV-2500 measured data is 2597 central lumen compared to Formoive Home Theater's 2669 central lumen.









AWOL LTV-2500 Review and First Impressions


As we said in our AWOL Vision LTV-3500 First Impressions article, we noted that AWOL Vision seeks to rebel against the status quo of the projection world and with their latest UST projector they’ve sent us for review, The AWOL Vision LTV-2500,...




www.projectorscreen.com













Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)


Introduction We are excited to be working with Formovie on the launch of their latest and greatest projector, the Formovie Theater here in the USA. There has been a lot of buzz around this particular model based on it's predecessor, the...




www.projectorscreen.com


----------



## kraine

The image menus of the AWOL 2500 are in the following order like here :










La norme, Vivid, Cinema, Sports, Le jeu Game and Auto-definition 

Then it is possible to apply for each mode the following light power levels:

"bright, standard, soft, high dynamic, low dynamic and auto definition"

Or to apply a personal fine tuning of brightness.

I can also see that the real 2000 ansi lumens boasted by the brand on its site are well present but not the 2700 lumens and then what interest to have even 2000 lumens if the color accuracy is not there? And it is unfortunately the case with the 2500.

Source :









4K 3D Triple Laser Projector LTV-2500


Why Triple Laser Technology? - Triple Laser(Pure laser/Tri-Chorma laser) Technology directly projects a native Red, Green and Blue laser source, which can cover 107% of Rec. BT.2020 color space and 1 Billion colors, achieve the best color uniformity. - Most UST laser projectors on the market are...




awolvision.com


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> The Lumagen doesn’t change the black floor much but the combination of a 3D LUT and the Lumagen DTM significantly changes the perceived contrast, increases shadow detail without increasing the black floor so this all gives off darker blacks even tho it actually doesn’t measure significantly darker. Also using a dynamic system interferes with the Lumagen intended DTM parameter’s.


Gotcha I thought it might be the 3D Lut. I'm not using one.
Laser dimming shouldn't interfere with my DTM settings since they are not in play unless the frame averages over 225 nits. But even at 100 nits, laser dimming would still not interfere. In theory I'm getting the best of both worlds.


----------



## arsenalfc89

The official 3D update is out. They also included a separate light output and white balance setting for SDR and HDR. Allowing us to tweak even further, I'm legit surprised by that and definitely is a welcome change.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> Gotcha I thought it might be the 3D Lut. I'm not using one.
> Laser dimming shouldn't interfere with my DTM settings since they are not in play unless the frame averages over 225 nits. But even at 100 nits, laser dimming would still not interfere. In theory I'm getting the best of both worlds.


Nice. The Lumagen allows to use laser dimming as well, may or may not be beneficial depending on setup. But with my 3D LUT laser dimming interferes with the white balance.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

This is interesting: AWOL 2500 versus T1/GT1/Formovie Theater


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> Nice. The Lumagen allows to use laser dimming as well, may or may not be beneficial depending on setup. But with my 3D LUT laser dimming interferes with the white balance.


I posted this on Facebook (as you know) but posting here for everyone else regarding the color changing when the laser dims in High or Low Dynamic light mode:

A workaround is to edit the white balance slightly and* increase the red gain 10 to 20 points (edit or 5 etc..)* depending on your calibration. Doing this makes the color change seem less severe since it will move from slightly warm (red) to cool (blue/green) it seems to be dimming the red laser lower than Blue and Green; which is especially annoying on scenes that are plenty bright but have lots of Brown's or skin tones that turn blue/green. It should only kick in when the scene is low Average Picture Level (APL), but I've encountered several scenes in Vengence and Crimes of the Future that pump the laser on and off, decreasing the red gain and setting it back within less than a second, but *a higher gain makes it go from red to slightly less red*. Definitely less noticeable and acceptable considering the alternative.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Here's how JVC's latest update is handling laser dimming. I wonder what method AWOL is using:

"New Laser Dynamic Control mode for laser models
Previously, control was based on the average brightness of the entire scene. The new mode adjusts images based on peak brightness, producing images with greater dynamic range. The new mode, in particular, improves the reproduction of content such as stars twinkling in the dark and nightscapes. Furthermore, pictures with low peak luminance can be experienced with a higher sensation of contrast"


----------



## rjyap

Casey_Bryson said:


> Here's how JVC's latest update is handling laser dimming. I wonder what method AWOL is using:
> 
> "New Laser Dynamic Control mode for laser models
> Previously, control was based on the average brightness of the entire scene. The new mode adjusts images based on peak brightness, producing images with greater dynamic range. The new mode, in particular, improves the reproduction of content such as stars twinkling in the dark and nightscapes. Furthermore, pictures with low peak luminance can be experienced with a higher sensation of contrast"


JVC method is the better way to handle laser dimming using peak brightness of pixel. It shouldn't dim if you have bright object against dark background. For scene that have very low peak brightness object such as 1917 staircase scene or batman, that would be a major advantage. If the brightest pixel is 1/3 of highest peak, then the laser could reduce the power by 66% and manipulate the gamma and so that the brightest pixel is at 100%. This would effectively improve that scene contrast by 3 times.

If AWOL could implement white balance for high/low laser power percentage that would make this model much better with laser dimming.


----------



## feifeikeng

Here's a new review from projectorcentral：AWOL Vision LTV-3500 Tri-Laser UST Projector Review


----------



## leo0111127

AWOL Vision LTV-3500 Tri-Laser UST Projector Review


The LTV-3500 from AWOL Vision is one of the brightest UST projectors available. It handles HDR well and measures reasonably well out of the box, earning a Highly Recommended designation.



www.projectorcentral.com


----------



## Dave Harper

Is there an echo in HERE……Here……here?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> Is there an echo in HERE……Here……here?


I think a lot of the users are on the Facebook page. It’s pretty active over there lol. Either that or no one has any complaints about the projector…..yet at least 🤣


----------



## Leatherass

What's the best way to go about buying this? Looks like the lowest price is direct through AWOL, but would prefer one of the major retailers. Looks like there are coupon codes out there on top of the sale price too. Thanks!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Leatherass said:


> What's the best way to go about buying this? Looks like the lowest price is direct through AWOL, but would prefer one of the major retailers. Looks like there are coupon codes out there on top of the sale price too. Thanks!


Nothingbutlabel has the 3500 for less than anyone


----------



## eleazar

Leatherass said:


> What's the best way to go about buying this? Looks like the lowest price is direct through AWOL, but would prefer one of the major retailers. Looks like there are coupon codes out there on top of the sale price too. Thanks!


I'm also wondering this. Nothingbutlabel price looks amazing, but the site has me nervous about ordering (and that it charges in Euros, so I will likely incur a fee from my credit card company). Anybody else order from them? Did they ship it quickly?

Looks like AWOL is offering $200 off for new customers, which would bring it down to $4749.


----------



## Nazgul

eleazar said:


> I'm also wondering this. Nothingbutlabel price looks amazing, but the site has me nervous about ordering (and that it charges in Euros, so I will likely incur a fee from my credit card company). Anybody else order from them? Did they ship it quickly?
> 
> Looks like AWOL is offering $200 off for new customers, which would bring it down to $4749.


To me AWOL is crazy high, everywhere. Unless you need something only it gives specifically I'd go with something like the Formovie or new Epson (depending on reviews). If the AWOL came down to like 3.5k I'd consider it. Just my 2 cents. It's definitely a good projector, but it's not my forever projector so I'm not going to pay that much.


----------



## donald winstead

BB has the 3500 on sale now problem with BB is they charge a 15 percent fee if decide to return it.


----------



## Nazgul

donald winstead said:


> BB has the 3500 on sale now problem with BB is they charge a 15 percent fee if decide to return it.


Yeah I saw that, oof....that's a hard pass.


----------



## donald winstead

Nazgul said:


> Yeah I saw that, oof....that's a hard pass.


definitly I am sure wouldnt do it unless really wanting one and to keep it.


----------



## Brajesh

BB as is Best buy? Not the price I see.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

eleazar said:


> I'm also wondering this. Nothingbutlabel price looks amazing, but the site has me nervous about ordering (and that it charges in Euros, so I will likely incur a fee from my credit card company). Anybody else order from them? Did they ship it quickly?
> 
> Looks like AWOL is offering $200 off for new customers, which would bring it down to $4749.


I have ordered from them. They have a USA warehouse for AWOL and ship quickly.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Nazgul said:


> To me AWOL is crazy high, everywhere. Unless you need something only it gives specifically I'd go with something like the Formovie or new Epson (depending on reviews). If the AWOL came down to like 3.5k I'd consider it. Just my 2 cents. It's definitely a good projector, but it's not my forever projector so I'm not going to pay that much.


I'd agree except neither have 3D and the 3D is the best you can get from any UST and I would imagine any single projector under $$$$???...I mean none are RGB laser and output 3500+ lumens (measured at 3943 peak center on projector central) 3D with a full BT2020 WCG applied is a sight to behold at nearly double the nearest competitor's calibrated 3D lumens. 

It's like having RGB laser IMAX 3D in your home for under 5K. That's a bargain by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## Nazgul

Casey_Bryson said:


> I'd agree except neither have 3D and the 3D is the best you can get from any UST and I would imagine any single projector under $$$$???


Yeah it was a very very good idea for AWOL to add on the 3D, I feel like that's pulling a lot of people to it. Without it while I think it's still a good projector, not sure if it'd justify the large price difference from non-3D projectors.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Nazgul said:


> Yeah it was a very very good idea for AWOL to add on the 3D, I feel like that's pulling a lot of people to it. Without it while I think it's still a good projector, not sure if it'd justify the large price difference from non-3D projectors.


True because at that point it's a brightness Vs Contrast argument and Daytime Vs. Night time usage. I still say you need as many nits that you can throw at the screen for HDR as well as 3D regardless, but better contrast with a DTM/DV in low APL scenes with no laser dimming artifacts, can make up the difference in those scenes. I'm not sure there's an argument for scenes with ANSI contrast though...

It's an interesting argument and comparison with around $1500 hanging in the balance.


----------



## eleazar

I pulled the trigger and ordered from the nothingbutlabel USA warehouse. They offered $100 off since they don't have calibration in the US yet. So that made the price impossible for me to resist (and no tax 😬💸). Hopefully it ships quickly.

Now I'm trying to figure out what screen to get (I started a thread over here: Differences between 120" UST ALR/CLR Screens (AWOL...). I would love any input from you guys already using this projector. I'm looking at 120" screens, and my environment is a family room, so there is quite a bit of light from the windows.

Special thanks to @arsenalfc89 for help in comparing the LS800 to the LTV-3500.


----------



## clipghost

eleazar said:


> I pulled the trigger and ordered from the nothingbutlabel USA warehouse. They offered $100 off since they don't have calibration in the US yet. So that made the price impossible for me to resist (and no tax 😬💸). Hopefully it ships quickly.
> 
> Now I'm trying to figure out what screen to get (I started a thread over here: Differences between 120" UST ALR/CLR Screens (AWOL...). I would love any input from you guys already using this projector. I'm looking at 120" screens, and my environment is a family room, so there is quite a bit of light from the windows.
> 
> Special thanks to @arsenalfc89 for help in comparing the LS800 to the LTV-3500.


What made you pick AWOL over say Formovie?


----------



## eleazar

clipghost said:


> What made you pick AWOL over say Formovie?


The high brightness with great color reproduction, combined with 3D, HDR, HDR10+, DolbyVision (coming soonTM). Honestly what cemented it was the UST projector shootout from The Hook Up channel (this video: youtube). His comment at the end saying the AWOL is really the only projector he would consider watching HDR content on sold me. I was so disappointed when my 4k Epson projector I bought a few years ago was so dim when watching HDR content that it might as well not had the feature. I felt like I was watching movies with sunglasses on.

I imagine the Formovie would've made me very happy too (I actually went into the video expecting the Formovie to be my choice). I do love that AWOL is a smaller company, that seems to be offering great support, and a slew of awesome updates.


----------



## Nazgul

eleazar said:


> I pulled the trigger and ordered from the nothingbutlabel USA warehouse. They offered $100 off since they don't have calibration in the US yet. So that made the price impossible for me to resist (and no tax 😬💸). Hopefully it ships quickly.
> 
> Now I'm trying to figure out what screen to get (I started a thread over here: Differences between 120" UST ALR/CLR Screens (AWOL...). I would love any input from you guys already using this projector. I'm looking at 120" screens, and my environment is a family room, so there is quite a bit of light from the windows.
> 
> Special thanks to @arsenalfc89 for help in comparing the LS800 to the LTV-3500.


Hmmm....since they don't like us talking price and stuff on here I sent you a PM.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

eleazar said:


> The high brightness with great color reproduction, combined with 3D, HDR, HDR10+, DolbyVision (coming soonTM). Honestly what cemented it was the UST projector shootout from The Hook Up channel (this video: youtube). His comment at the end saying the AWOL is really the only projector he would consider watching HDR content on sold me. I was so disappointed when my 4k Epson projector I bought a few years ago was so dim when watching HDR content that it might as well not had the feature. I felt like I was watching movies with sunglasses on.
> 
> I imagine the Formovie would've made me very happy too (I actually went into the video expecting the Formovie to be my choice). I do love that AWOL is a smaller company, that seems to be offering great support, and a slew of awesome updates.


@Brajesh told me he wished HDR was a little brighter for HDR. He's not using a DTM, like Lumagen or MadVR, which would help HDR as it needs as many lumens as you can throw, but he does have a light controlled room and a white matte ~1.0+ gain screen that does give him 20-50% more nits than a CLR screen so it goes to show that you just need MORE for HDR and AWOL 3500 it's the only one that provides that by at least 500 calibrated lumens more than any UST and 1000+ calibrated versus the Formovie Theater.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Nazgul said:


> Hmmm....since they don't like us talking price and stuff on here I sent you a PM.


Yeah Nothing ButLabel will negotiate price even lower than listed if you know how to strike a bargain. Sounds like it was closer to 4K than 4.5k


----------



## leo0111127

Leatherass said:


> What's the best way to go about buying this? Looks like the lowest price is direct through AWOL, but would prefer one of the major retailers. Looks like there are coupon codes out there on top of the sale price too. Thanks!


Buy it on Amazon with one month free return policy.


----------



## Brajesh

Casey_Bryson said:


> @Brajesh told me he wished HDR was a little brighter for HDR. He's not using a DTM, like Lumagen or MadVR, which would help HDR as it needs as many lumens as you can throw, but he does have a light controlled room and a white matte ~1.0+ gain screen that does give him 20-50% more nits than a CLR screen so it goes to show that you just need MORE for HDR and AWOL 3500 it's the only one that provides that by at least 500 calibrated lumens more than any UST and 1000+ calibrated versus the Formovie Theater.


So, first impressions...

Holy moly, does this thing throw a bright image!!! Default is Vivid, but even in Movie mode, it's really bright... and surprisingly not washed out. I do have a 145" 1.3 gain screen, and I'm considering a 120" ALR or a 145-150" gray screen, but may just play around with settings to tone down brightness a bit and stick with my 1.3.

Contrast seems rather good to me, with dynamic contrast enabled. Color temperature at standard. Was going to pick 'Hot', but unsure if that equates to desired warm. Blacks are... as expected, dark grey, but I'm not finding it as bothersome as I expected. Tried 'Jolt' & 'Star Wars' 4K discs, and yes, Formovie Theater is noticeably better, but the brightness, sharpness and more accurate colors (not those "flamboyant" colors as @kraine put it) make for a solid overall experience. Yes, blacks are missed, but you gain on everything else. As has been said before, the 3500 is as close to OLED TV I've seen in any projector. The brightness helps tremendously with 3D. Tried a few titles and it's just excellent... kept watching 'Avatar' and 'Aquaman' for longer than I expected to sample it as it brought back that initial wow feel. Just wish there was a quicker way to engage 3D vs going through several steps via settings; thankfully 3D disengages as soon as you stop playback.

HDR looks great, as does DV using HDFury. HDR as is more usable with this PJ compared to any DLP or 3LCD I've had to date.

Some cons... seeing some convergence-like issues, I'm guessing it's more chromatic aberration. Some minor, but noticeable in patterns, fringing of colors. This isn't noticeable with actual content. Focus is noticeably better than Formovie Theater's and the electronic focus via the remote is easier. The remote feels cheap, but is serviceable. Same goes for the UI and menus.

More testing to do, but it'll be a tough choice between Theater & AWOL.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> So, first impressions...
> 
> Holy moly, does this thing throw a bright image!!! Default is Vivid, but even in Movie mode, it's really bright... and surprisingly not washed out. I do have a 145" 1.3 gain screen, and I'm considering a 120" ALR or a 145-150" gray screen, but may just play around with settings to tone down brightness a bit and stick with my 1.3.
> 
> Contrast seems rather good to me, with dynamic contrast enabled. Color temperature at standard. Was going to pick 'Hot', but unsure if that equates to desired warm. Blacks are... as expected, dark grey, but I'm not finding it as bothersome as I expected. Tried 'Jolt' & 'Star Wars' 4K discs, and yes, Formovie Theater is noticeably better, but the brightness, sharpness and more accurate colors (not those "flamboyant" colors as @kraine put it) make for a solid overall experience. Yes, blacks are missed, but you gain on everything else. As has been said before, the 3500 is as close to OLED TV I've seen in any projector. The brightness helps tremendously with 3D. Tried a few titles and it's just excellent... kept watching 'Avatar' and 'Aquaman' for longer than I expected to sample it as it brought back that initial wow feel. Just wish there was a quicker way to engage 3D vs going through several steps via settings; thankfully 3D disengages as soon as you stop playback.
> 
> HDR looks great, as does DV using HDFury. HDR as is more usable with this PJ compared to any DLP or 3LCD I've had to date.
> 
> Some cons... seeing some convergence-like issues, I'm guessing it's more chromatic aberration. Some minor, but noticeable in patterns, fringing of colors. This isn't noticeable with actual content. Focus is noticeably better than Formovie Theater's and the electronic focus via the remote is easier. The remote feels cheap, but is serviceable. Same goes for the UI and menus.
> 
> More testing to do, but it'll be a tough choice between Theater & AWOL.


Hmm off top of your head, based on price/quality. What is better at the moment, AWOL or Formovie?


----------



## Brajesh

Tough one... if it wasn't for 3D, I'd still pick Formovie I think. But, AWOL's image is just really vibrant, at a cost of okay blacks.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> So, first impressions...
> 
> Holy moly, does this thing throw a bright image!!! Default is Vivid, but even in Movie mode, it's really bright... and surprisingly not washed out. I do have a 145" 1.3 gain screen, and I'm considering a 120" ALR or a 145-150" gray screen, but may just play around with settings to tone down brightness a bit and stick with my 1.3.
> 
> Contrast seems rather good to me, with dynamic contrast enabled. Color temperature at standard. Was going to pick 'Hot', but unsure if that equates to desired warm. Blacks are... as expected, dark grey, but I'm not finding it as bothersome as I expected. Tried 'Jolt' & 'Star Wars' 4K discs, and yes, Formovie Theater is noticeably better, but the brightness, sharpness and more accurate colors (not those "flamboyant" colors as @kraine put it) make for a solid overall experience. Yes, blacks are missed, but you gain on everything else. As has been said before, the 3500 is as close to OLED TV I've seen in any projector. The brightness helps tremendously with 3D. Tried a few titles and it's just excellent... kept watching 'Avatar' and 'Aquaman' for longer than I expected to sample it as it brought back that initial wow feel. Just wish there was a quicker way to engage 3D vs going through several steps via settings; thankfully 3D disengages as soon as you stop playback.
> 
> HDR looks great, as does DV using HDFury. HDR as is more usable with this PJ compared to any DLP or 3LCD I've had to date.
> 
> Some cons... seeing some convergence-like issues, I'm guessing it's more chromatic aberration. Some minor, but noticeable in patterns, fringing of colors. This isn't noticeable with actual content. Focus is noticeably better than Formovie Theater's and the electronic focus via the remote is easier. The remote feels cheap, but is serviceable. Same goes for the UI and menus.
> 
> More testing to do, but it'll be a tough choice between Theater & AWOL.


1.3 gain screen with this projector?! My gosh you don’t need lights or the sun anymore 🤣. ALR screen will help the blacks so will high dynamic light in addition to dynamic contrast. Since the projector has so much headroom in brightness even after calibrating you can then calibrate to 2.4 gamma and still have a brighter image than other UST out, which is crazy and makes images take on a 3D look.


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> So, first impressions...
> 
> Holy moly, does this thing throw a bright image!!! Default is Vivid, but even in Movie mode, it's really bright... and surprisingly not washed out. I do have a 145" 1.3 gain screen, and I'm considering a 120" ALR or a 145-150" gray screen, but may just play around with settings to tone down brightness a bit and stick with my 1.3.
> 
> Contrast seems rather good to me, with dynamic contrast enabled. Color temperature at standard. Was going to pick 'Hot', but unsure if that equates to desired warm. Blacks are... as expected, dark grey, but I'm not finding it as bothersome as I expected. Tried 'Jolt' & 'Star Wars' 4K discs, and yes, Formovie Theater is noticeably better, but the brightness, sharpness and more accurate colors (not those "flamboyant" colors as @kraine put it) make for a solid overall experience. Yes, blacks are missed, but you gain on everything else. As has been said before, the 3500 is as close to OLED TV I've seen in any projector. The brightness helps tremendously with 3D. Tried a few titles and it's just excellent... kept watching 'Avatar' and 'Aquaman' for longer than I expected to sample it as it brought back that initial wow feel. Just wish there was a quicker way to engage 3D vs going through several steps via settings; thankfully 3D disengages as soon as you stop playback.
> 
> HDR looks great, as does DV using HDFury. HDR as is more usable with this PJ compared to any DLP or 3LCD I've had to date.
> 
> Some cons... seeing some convergence-like issues, I'm guessing it's more chromatic aberration. Some minor, but noticeable in patterns, fringing of colors. This isn't noticeable with actual content. Focus is noticeably better than Formovie Theater's and the electronic focus via the remote is easier. The remote feels cheap, but is serviceable. Same goes for the UI and menus.
> 
> More testing to do, but it'll be a tough choice between Theater & AWOL.


Based on your feedback and native contrast measurement, for those with total light control room, Formovie theater would be the better choice. For those that can't darken their room with ambient light or wanted 3D, AWOL would be the pick with short throw ALR screen.


----------



## eleazar

Brajesh said:


> So, first impressions...
> 
> Holy moly, does this thing throw a bright image!!! Default is Vivid, but even in Movie mode, it's really bright... and surprisingly not washed out. I do have a 145" 1.3 gain screen, and I'm considering a 120" ALR or a 145-150" gray screen, but may just play around with settings to tone down brightness a bit and stick with my 1.3.
> 
> Contrast seems rather good to me, with dynamic contrast enabled. Color temperature at standard. Was going to pick 'Hot', but unsure if that equates to desired warm. Blacks are... as expected, dark grey, but I'm not finding it as bothersome as I expected. Tried 'Jolt' & 'Star Wars' 4K discs, and yes, Formovie Theater is noticeably better, but the brightness, sharpness and more accurate colors (not those "flamboyant" colors as @kraine put it) make for a solid overall experience. Yes, blacks are missed, but you gain on everything else. As has been said before, the 3500 is as close to OLED TV I've seen in any projector. The brightness helps tremendously with 3D. Tried a few titles and it's just excellent... kept watching 'Avatar' and 'Aquaman' for longer than I expected to sample it as it brought back that initial wow feel. Just wish there was a quicker way to engage 3D vs going through several steps via settings; thankfully 3D disengages as soon as you stop playback.
> 
> HDR looks great, as does DV using HDFury. HDR as is more usable with this PJ compared to any DLP or 3LCD I've had to date.
> 
> Some cons... seeing some convergence-like issues, I'm guessing it's more chromatic aberration. Some minor, but noticeable in patterns, fringing of colors. This isn't noticeable with actual content. Focus is noticeably better than Formovie Theater's and the electronic focus via the remote is easier. The remote feels cheap, but is serviceable. Same goes for the UI and menus.
> 
> More testing to do, but it'll be a tough choice between Theater & AWOL.


You have me really excited to get mine. If I could just get NothingButLabel to actually ship my projector!

Keep us posted if you get a different screen and your experiences with it. Is your current screen designed for UST projectors or just a general 145" 1.3 gain screen?


----------



## Brajesh

arsenalfc89 said:


> 1.3 gain screen with this projector?! My gosh you don’t need lights or the sun anymore 🤣. ALR screen will help the blacks so will high dynamic light in addition to dynamic contrast. Since the projector has so much headroom in brightness even after calibrating you can then calibrate to 2.4 gamma and still have a brighter image than other UST out, which is crazy and makes images take on a 3D look.


Yep looking into either a gray screen, closer to the 145" I currently have, or a 120" .8 ALR, but hate the idea of downsizing on size.


rjyap said:


> Based on your feedback and native contrast measurement, for those with total light control room, Formovie theater would be the better choice. For those that can't darken their room with ambient light or wanted 3D, AWOL would be the pick with short throw ALR screen.


Think AWOL 3500 can still be suitable for a light controlled HT. I'm undecided on AWOL, but leaning that way for reasons I posted.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Yep looking into either a gray screen, closer to the 145" I currently have, or a 120" .8 ALR, but hate the idea of downsizing on size.
> 
> Think AWOL 3500 can still be suitable for a light controlled HT. I'm undecided on AWOL, but leaning that way for reasons I posted.


Interested to get your final thoughts/decision in the end.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Another review for those looking. Calls it his favorite projector although not a technical review like Dave but still a good one.


----------



## Brajesh

rjyap said:


> Based on your feedback and native contrast measurement, for those with total light control room, Formovie theater would be the better choice. For those that can't darken their room with ambient light or wanted 3D, AWOL would be the pick with short throw ALR screen.


You're spot on as this is the conclusion I arrived at after a couple hours of testing yesterday. I really liked AWOL 3500, especially that brightness for 3D even in a dark, dedicated HT room. Color accuracy out of the gate with Movie mode seemed very good as well. But, in a dedicated HT room, 3500 also feels like a bright TV experience vs. a cinema experience (except for 3D). It looked great with network TV and sports. For movies, I missed the better overall picture, especially blacks, as I tested various movies and streaming shows. Granted, I have a non-ALR 1.3 gain screen, but what's great is it still pairs well with Formovie Theater, even retaining good level of blacks. Yes, I could get an ALR to make it better, but thing is it isn't needed for a dark, dedicated HT with Formovie. It absolutely is I can see with AWOL. Hate the idea of losing that large screen, IMAX-like experience with my 145" screen with a 120" ALR that costs a lot more.

Wish I could keep the AWOL 3500--along with Formovie--exclusively for 3D and HDR content. But, sticking with my dual PJ Formovie Theater & BenQ HT2050A set-up. Latter is very good with 3D, although it obviously lacks AWOL's brightness. For dark-ish HDR/10+ content with Formovie, will use Zidoo to output to DV using Zidoo's VS10 processing, and regain needed brightness.

Glad I tried AWOL 3500 for myself. Came very close to switching to it and buying an ALR. Think it would've worked out really well (as with my current set-up), except for settling for a smaller screen.


----------



## arsenalfc89

I think you made the right choice for your room and screen. A 1.3 gain screen for the AWOL?…oh boy lol


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> You're spot on as this is the conclusion I arrived at after a couple hours of testing yesterday. I really liked AWOL 3500, especially that brightness for 3D even in a dark, dedicated HT room. Color accuracy out of the gate with Movie mode seemed very good as well. But, in a dedicated HT room, 3500 also feels like a bright TV experience vs. a cinema experience (except for 3D). It looked great with network TV and sports. For movies, I missed the better overall picture, especially blacks, as I tested various movies and streaming shows. Granted, I have a non-ALR 1.3 gain screen, but what's great is it still pairs well with Formovie Theater, even retaining good level of blacks. Yes, I could get an ALR to make it better, but thing is it isn't needed for a dark, dedicated HT with Formovie. It absolutely is I can see with AWOL. Hate the idea of losing that large screen, IMAX-like experience with my 145" screen with a 120" ALR that costs a lot more.
> 
> Wish I could keep the AWOL 3500--along with Formovie--exclusively for 3D and HDR content. But, sticking with my dual PJ Formovie Theater & BenQ HT2050A set-up. Latter is very good with 3D, although it obviously lacks AWOL's brightness. For dark-ish HDR/10+ content with Formovie, will use Zidoo to output to DV using Zidoo's VS10 processing, and regain needed brightness.
> 
> Glad I tried AWOL 3500 for myself. Came very close to switching to it and buying an ALR. Think it would've worked out really well (as with my current set-up), except for settling for a smaller screen.


I temporary give up on 3D using projector. Looking into future VR OLED headset or Nreal Air AR glasses (but currently can't support 3D format movie) as replacement. This would be the best for 3D as no brightness drop and zero crosstalk as the display is independent for both eyes. I try out Oculus Quest 2 in my HT as display with HT Atmos speakers setup, while 3D is great but resolution and sharpness take a hit.


----------



## Brajesh

VR is okay. I have an Oculus Quest 2 & max I can handle in one sitting is 30 mins, ideally 15-20 mins. For enjoying movies, don't think it's the best tech.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Seems it’s starting to make its way to more reviewers.


----------



## clipghost

It's so strange still. AWOL is reaching everyone's top but then everyone here goes crazy for the Formovie, I think because where the Formovie is for sale is so limited.


----------



## Brajesh

Think Formovie is still the top tri-laser if you have a well light-controlled room, w/o needing an ALR screen (would help, but isn't necessary). SDR & DV look excellent, HDR could be brighter. But, AWOL 3500 with an ALR screen (necessary) I think would be the best pick overall, even if contrast could be better. It does everything else well, and once DV is added, it'll be the most complete all-in-one UST. These two are neck and neck IMHO for different personal preferences that take priority.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> You're spot on as this is the conclusion I arrived at after a couple hours of testing yesterday. I really liked AWOL 3500, especially that brightness for 3D even in a dark, dedicated HT room. Color accuracy out of the gate with Movie mode seemed very good as well. But, in a dedicated HT room, 3500 also feels like a bright TV experience vs. a cinema experience (except for 3D). It looked great with network TV and sports. For movies, I missed the better overall picture, especially blacks, as I tested various movies and streaming shows. Granted, I have a non-ALR 1.3 gain screen, but what's great is it still pairs well with Formovie Theater, even retaining good level of blacks. Yes, I could get an ALR to make it better, but thing is it isn't needed for a dark, dedicated HT with Formovie. It absolutely is I can see with AWOL. Hate the idea of losing that large screen, IMAX-like experience with my 145" screen with a 120" ALR that costs a lot more.
> 
> Wish I could keep the AWOL 3500--along with Formovie--exclusively for 3D and HDR content. But, sticking with my dual PJ Formovie Theater & BenQ HT2050A set-up. Latter is very good with 3D, although it obviously lacks AWOL's brightness. For dark-ish HDR/10+ content with Formovie, will use Zidoo to output to DV using Zidoo's VS10 processing, and regain needed brightness.
> 
> Glad I tried AWOL 3500 for myself. Came very close to switching to it and buying an ALR. Think it would've worked out really well (as with my current set-up), except for settling for a smaller screen.





arsenalfc89 said:


> I think you made the right choice for your room and screen. A 1.3 gain screen for the AWOL?…oh boy lol


I’m not sure why this should even be considered an issue. It’s very easy to just lower the laser brightness/power. 



clipghost said:


> It's so strange still. AWOL is reaching everyone's top but then everyone here goes crazy for the Formovie, I think because where the Formovie is for sale is so limited.


Probably due to it being so much less expensive as well.


----------



## clipghost

Dave Harper said:


> I’m not sure why this should even be considered an issue. It’s very easy to just lower the laser brightness/power.
> 
> 
> 
> Probably due to it being so much less expensive as well.


True, what would you say Dave? AWOL 3500 or Formovie? Your 2 cents on the subject? 

Also does anyone have recommended settings for the AWOL 3500? Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

Dave Harper said:


> I’m not sure why this should even be considered an issue. It’s very easy to just lower the laser brightness/power.


True, but it doesn't help improve needed contrast w/AWOL on a standard (or low gain) screen--an ALR however would.


----------



## eleazar

I received my LTV-3500 and I’m just starting to play with it. First, the color and brightness absolutely blows me away. I’m using it on a DIY painted screen, and it looks amazing. Can’t wait to see it once I pick a CLR screen.

One question right off the bat, I’m using the projector with a 4k Apple TV (2021), via Onkyo TR-676. I have a a high speed 18gbps cable connecting the ATV to the receiver and receiver to the projector. For some reason, regardless of the media I’m playing in Plex (HDR, non-HDR, 4k, 1080p, etc) there is a 1-2 second audio delay.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any pointers?

Youtube TV has no audio sync issues.


----------



## ryu4000

eleazar said:


> I received my LTV-3500 and I’m just starting to play with it. First, the color and brightness absolutely blows me away. I’m using it on a DIY painted screen, and it looks amazing. Can’t wait to see it once I pick a CLR screen.
> 
> One question right off the bat, I’m using the projector with a 4k Apple TV (2021), via Onkyo TR-676. I have a a high speed 18gbps cable connecting the ATV to the receiver and receiver to the projector. For some reason, regardless of the media I’m playing in Plex (HDR, non-HDR, 4k, 1080p, etc) there is a 1-2 second audio delay.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this? Any pointers?
> 
> Youtube TV has no audio sync issues.


Do you have match framerate on the apple tv cause i know that was the issue with apple tv sucker adds a delay doesn't matter if you have oled projector etc...


----------



## Dave Harper

clipghost said:


> True, what would you say Dave? AWOL 3500 or Formovie? Your 2 cents on the subject?
> 
> Also does anyone have recommended settings for the AWOL 3500? Thanks!


As many have said, with a more dedicated light controlled room I’d go ForMovie “I think”, but mostly based on price since it’s so much cheaper. But that 3500’s brightness makes me drool with HDR/DV. The brighter lasers do bias the eyes with mixed content so it could appear to have darker blacks and contrast. Of course the worst of dark scenes would expose it. I do hear AWOL is working on a FW update which may help contrast. We will see. 

There’s just something about the AWOL for me………

Where did you buy your AWOL?



Brajesh said:


> True, but it doesn't help improve needed contrast w/AWOL on a standard (or low gain) screen--an ALR however would.


Lowering laser power can indeed sometimes increase native contrast due to less reflections in the optical engine. I only measured peak lasers though for my reviews so I can’t say for sure with this one yet.


----------



## arsenalfc89

clipghost said:


> It's so strange still. AWOL is reaching everyone's top but then everyone here goes crazy for the Formovie, I think because where the Formovie is for sale is so limited.


Price has a lot to do with it, T1 is nice especially at that price point. I think AWOL is doing well in reviews because honestly it's the only projector that does great or excels PQ wise in different facets of video and does this in a variety of lighting conditions. Man they even got 3D down "perfectly" 😂.


----------



## clipghost

Dave Harper said:


> As many have said, with a more dedicated light controlled room I’d go ForMovie “I think”, but mostly based on price since it’s so much cheaper. But that 3500’s brightness makes me drool with HDR/DV. The brighter lasers do bias the eyes with mixed content so it could appear to have darker blacks and contrast. Of course the worst of dark scenes would expose it. I do hear AWOL is working on a FW update which may help contrast. We will see.
> 
> There’s just something about the AWOL for me………
> 
> Where did you buy your AWOL?
> 
> 
> 
> Lowering laser power can indeed sometimes increase native contrast due to less reflections in the optical engine. I only measured peak lasers though for my reviews so I can’t say for sure with this one yet.


Just off Amazon to see if I even liked it. If you have some settings you recommend, would appreciate it.


----------



## Brajesh

Amazon also. They had a $525 instant discount on top of the 10% off sale price, but now it’s just $250. Agree with everything you noted @Dave Harper; almost went AWOL 3500 over Formovie. For me, what it really came down to was not wanting to downsize to a 120” ALR from my current 145” non-ALR. Non-ALR pairs fine with Formovie in a dark room, AWOL doesn’t. Larger ALR would cost as much as the 3500 itself, which isn’t worth it for how close the performance is between these PJ’s for quite different reasons.


----------



## eleazar

ryu4000 said:


> Do you have match framerate on the apple tv cause i know that was the issue with apple tv sucker adds a delay doesn't matter if you have oled projector etc...



Thanks for tip. I've tried with match framerate on and off, but the audio delay is still there with it off. Certain settings I played with made the audio delay closer to 1 second, other settings made it seem closer to 2 seconds.

I overnighted a 48gbps HDMI cable from amazon and tried that this morning with the ATV directly plugged into the projector, using the PJ's built in speakers, and it still had the same audio delay. So I feel like it's not the cables or the AVR (which makes sense since the delay only exists in Plex so far). So my next thought is to factory reset the ATV and start all settings from scratch 

Does anyone know what video settings should I use in the Apple TV, in general? I've tried forcing 4K HDR 60hz, but the ATV interface colors are all muted (but HDR movies look great). I also tried forcing 4K SDR 60hz, where the ATV interface looks great, and it seems like the PJ automatically enables HDR when I play HDR content. So I guess I'm not sure what settings to use for watching with the LTV-3500.


----------



## arsenalfc89

eleazar said:


> Thanks for tip. I've tried with match framerate on and off, but the audio delay is still there with it off. Certain settings I played with made the audio delay closer to 1 second, other settings made it seem closer to 2 seconds.
> 
> I overnighted a 48gbps HDMI cable from amazon and tried that this morning with the ATV directly plugged into the projector, using the PJ's built in speakers, and it still had the same audio delay. So I feel like it's not the cables or the AVR (which makes sense since the delay only exists in Plex so far). So my next thought is to factory reset the ATV and start all settings from scratch
> 
> Does anyone know what video settings should I use in the Apple TV, in general? I've tried forcing 4K HDR 60hz, but the ATV interface colors are all muted (but HDR movies look great). I also tried forcing 4K SDR 60hz, where the ATV interface looks great, and it seems like the PJ automatically enables HDR when I play HDR content. So I guess I'm not sure what settings to use for watching with the LTV-3500.


If the issue is only on Plex then that sounds like a setting that needs to be changed in the app or even resseting the ATV may fix it. ATV menu isn't well rendered in HDR so that's why it looks more washed out. You can leave it in HDR while turning match dynamic range off if you're okay watching everything in HDR and also eliminating the black screen that pops up when watching any other content that isn't HDR. Or you can leave it on SDR with match dynamic range on, if you're okay watching SDR as SDR and HDR as HDR. You'll get a black screen when it does make the switch (match dynamic range is what causes the black screen). Either way leaving it on HDR or SDR doesn't really matter, just preference. It's the match dynamic range that really matters.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> Amazon also. They had a $525 instant discount on top of the 10% off sale price, but now it’s just $250. Agree with everything you noted @Dave Harper; almost went AWOL 3500 over Formovie. For me, what it really came down to was not wanting to downsize to a 120” ALR from my current 145” non-ALR. *Non-ALR pairs fine with Formovie in a dark room, AWOL doesn’t. *Larger ALR would cost as much as the 3500 itself, which isn’t worth it for how close the performance is between these PJ’s for quite different reasons.


Why is that? Like I said you can easily just lower the laser power on the AWOL. I’ve used the 3500 on an AT white screen and it look fabulous. All because of its Black levels?


----------



## Brajesh

Wish I had you to help evaluate critically side by side in my home theater . And calibrate the one I'd keep . On a serious note, if you're ever in the Atlanta area, I'd be interested.


----------



## Ampro4600

Dave Harper said:


> As many have said, with a more dedicated light controlled room I’d go ForMovie “I think”, but mostly based on price since it’s so much cheaper. But that 3500’s brightness makes me drool with HDR/DV. The brighter lasers do bias the eyes with mixed content so it could appear to have darker blacks and contrast. Of course the worst of dark scenes would expose it. I do hear AWOL is working on a FW update which may help contrast. We will see.
> 
> There’s just something about the AWOL for me………
> 
> Where did you buy your AWOL?
> 
> 
> 
> Lowering laser power can indeed sometimes increase native contrast due to less reflections in the optical engine. I only measured peak lasers though for my reviews so I can’t say for sure with this one yet.


Any idea when this new FW will come?


----------



## Dgtr74

Sharing my LTV-3500 setup with the Povision UST TV stand with a white 150” 1.1 gain screen for nighttime viewing with 3D bluray content and 4K movies and the 120” Vividstorm ALR screen for daytime viewing in my bright living room. 3D on the gigantic screen is a sight to behold. It’s just incredible! Razor sharp image with no ghosting or stutter. Could not be more happier. This setup completely replaced my 80” 3D LED TV, which got moved upstairs.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> Wish I had you to help evaluate critically side by side in my home theater . And calibrate the one I'd keep . On a serious note, if you're ever in the Atlanta area, I'd be interested.


Well I do have family around Atlanta, so………



Ampro4600 said:


> Any idea when this new FW will come?


Not a clue or if it’s even real.


----------



## bleuiko

Dgtr74 said:


> Sharing my LTV-3500 setup with the Povision UST TV stand with a white 150” 1.1 gain screen for nighttime viewing with 3D bluray content and 4K movies and the 120” Vividstorm ALR screen for daytime viewing in my bright living room. 3D on the gigantic screen is a sight to behold. It’s just incredible! Razor sharp image with no ghosting or stutter. Could not be more happier. This setup completely replaced my 80” 3D LED TV, which got moved upstairs.


I thought I have seen everything but a screen behind a screen is dedication to this hobby! Awesome set up!


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Ampro4600 said:


> Any idea when this new FW will come?


I received an update to the firmware for my AWOL 2500. Firmware date is 09/24/2022 and firmware version V1.00.1A.20220924
This update added a 3D setting in the Image menu, but it is greyed out. It stays greyed out even when I opened a 3D movie named Gravity. Do I have try another movie for the 3D setting become available?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

luisenriquereyes said:


> I received an update to the firmware for my AWOL 2500. Firmware date is 09/24/2022 and firmware version V1.00.1A.20220924
> This update added a 3D setting in the Image menu, but it is greyed out. It stays greyed out even when I opened a 3D movie named Gravity. Do I have try another movie for the 3D setting become available?


Contact AWOL support. They will send you a remote and instructions to install TI DLP software to update the DLP and MCU firmware via a laptop.


----------



## IrishLord82

Dgtr74 said:


> Sharing my LTV-3500 setup with the Povision UST TV stand with a white 150” 1.1 gain screen for nighttime viewing with 3D bluray content and 4K movies and the 120” Vividstorm ALR screen for daytime viewing in my bright living room. 3D on the gigantic screen is a sight to behold. It’s just incredible! Razor sharp image with no ghosting or stutter. Could not be more happier. This setup completely replaced my 80” 3D LED TV, which got moved upstairs.
> View attachment 3351493
> 
> View attachment 3351494
> 
> View attachment 3351490
> 
> View attachment 3351492
> 
> View attachment 3351495
> 
> View attachment 3351491
> 
> View attachment 3351489


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## IrishLord82

What is the model of the stand you have your 150" setup on? It looks like more than one stand. I looked on the Provision site and couldn't find the same model. Thank you.


----------



## Dgtr74

IrishLord82 said:


> What is the model of the stand you have your 150" setup on? It looks like more than one stand. I looked on the Provision site and couldn't find the same model. Thank you.


My 120” Vividstorm ALR screen and 9.2.4 Nakamichi sound bar is sitting on top of four 9.5” high monitor riser, which sits on top of the Povision stand To create extra height. I can’t find that exact monitor riser on Amazon anymore, however, any 9.5” riser will work. The 150” screen has it’s own stand and black skirt and was used originally for my Epson 5050UB.

Forgot to share pictures of the projector in action. This is in the middle of a sunny day with 3 fully opened windows facing directly across the screen. The color still pops like crazy, which my iphone cannot capture properly. Of course, nighttime viewing is incomparable, much better than my Epson 5050UB. The AWOL is much brighter, way better colors, and has better perceived contrast even on the white screen. I just sold the Epson.


----------



## yodathekid

Dgtr74 said:


> My 120” Vividstorm ALR screen and 9.2.4 Nakamichi sound bar is sitting on top of four 9.5” high monitor riser, which sits on top of the Povision stand To create extra height. I can’t find that exact monitor riser on Amazon anymore, however, any 9.5” riser will work. The 150” screen has it’s own stand and black skirt and was used originally for my Epson 5050UB.
> 
> Forgot to share pictures of the projector in action. This is in the middle of a sunny day with 3 fully opened windows facing directly across the screen. The color still pops like crazy, which my iphone cannot capture properly. Of course, nighttime viewing is incomparable, much better than my Epson 5050UB. The AWOL is much brighter and has better perceived contrast even on the white screen. I just sold the Epson.
> View attachment 3353320
> 
> View attachment 3353319


Would love to hear more about your experience with the AWOL vs the Epson 5050. The Epson has been at the top of my future-build wishlist for awhile because of the contrast and UB designation, as well support for 3D. But, this AWOL has really caught my eye with much higher brightness and support for 3D and _hopefully_ Dolby Vision. I’m mainly curious how noticeable the difference in black floor and contrast are especially with darker/dimmer content (like The Batman or Deathly Hallows pt2).


----------



## Dgtr74

yodathekid said:


> Would love to hear more about your experience with the AWOL vs the Epson 5050. The Epson has been at the top of my future-build wishlist for awhile because of the contrast and UB designation, as well support for 3D. But, this AWOL has really caught my eye with much higher brightness and support for 3D and Dolby Vision. I’m mainly curious how noticeable the difference in black floor and contrast are especially with darker/dimmer content (like The Batman or Deathly Hallows pt2).


Sure. I watch quite a few dark movies on Netflix as well. Before I got any experience with the AWOL, I thought my Epson 5050UB produced the best and sharpest picture vs my other projector that I have, the BenQ TK800M. It had better blacks and was sharper vs the BenQ. However, you will need a very dark/black room to better enjoy the Epson and the BenQ. Here’s my comparison of the 5050UB vs the AWOL 3500 in simple terms. Even though one is long-throw and one is UST, the picture quality can be easily compared. 

*Resolution: * I can see the screen door effect with the Epson and the image is more soft. The AWOL, I cannot see the screen door effect and the image is quite a bit sharper with better resolution than the Epson. 
*Black floor: * Epson has lower black floor of course, but the image just seems more flat to me now that I’ve gotten to compare both projectors side by side. Dark movies on the Epson is great in a very dark room. However, dark movies with HDR is very nice in the same dark room with the AWOL on an ALR screen. There’s more perceived contrast b/t the bright and dark parts of the scene. Side by side, the AWOL just looks like it’s on another level picture quality wise. My wife was the judge and told me to sell the Epson. 
*3D: * No comparison. I did not enjoy 3D on the Epson, it was too dark and colors was dull. 3D separation was okay and I noticed some ghosting. I have a ton of 3D blu-rays and many displays/projectors in the past that can display 3D and the AWOL produces the best 3D image I have ever seen. It’s bright and the colors pop and with no ghosting or judder. I cannot say the same for the other displays that I’ve owned or seen. 
*Noise: *The Epson is also much noisier and produces way more heat than the AWOL. Sitting a few feet from the screen, I cannot hear the AWOL at all. 

The Epson held its value very well though. I was able to sell the Epson for the same price that I bought it for in 2018.


----------



## yodathekid

Dgtr74 said:


> Sure. I watch quite a few dark movies on Netflix as well. Before I got any experience with the AWOL, I thought my Epson 5050UB produced the best and sharpest picture vs my other projector that I have, the BenQ TK800M. It had better blacks and was sharper vs the BenQ. However, you will need a very dark/black room to better enjoy the Epson and the BenQ. Here’s my comparison of the 5050UB vs the AWOL 3500 in simple terms. Even though one is long-throw and one is UST, the picture quality can be easily compared.
> 
> *Resolution: * I can see the screen door effect with the Epson and the image is more soft. The AWOL, I cannot see the screen door effect and the image is quite a bit sharper with better resolution than the Epson.
> *Black floor: * Epson has lower black floor of course, but the image just seems more flat to me now that I’ve gotten to compare both projectors side by side. Dark movies on the Epson is great in a very dark room. However, dark movies with HDR is very nice in the same dark room with the AWOL on an ALR screen. There’s more perceived contrast b/t the bright and dark parts of the scene. Side by side, the AWOL just looks like it’s on another level picture quality wise. My wife was the judge and told me to sell the Epson.
> *3D: * No comparison. I did not enjoy 3D on the Epson, it was too dark and colors was dull. 3D separation was okay and I noticed some ghosting. I have a ton of 3D blu-rays and many displays/projectors in the past that can display 3D and the AWOL produces the best 3D image I have ever seen. It’s bright and the colors pop and with no ghosting or judder. I cannot say the same for the other displays that I’ve owned or seen.
> *Noise: *The Epson is also much noisier and produces way more heat than the AWOL. Sitting a few feet from the screen, I cannot hear the AWOL at all.
> 
> The Epson held its value very well though. I was able to sell the Epson for the same price that I bought it for in 2018.


This is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks so much for expanding on your experience. Time to start budgeting for the AWOL and an ALR screen.


----------



## IrishLord82

Dgtr74 said:


> My 120” Vividstorm ALR screen and 9.2.4 Nakamichi sound bar is sitting on top of four 9.5” high monitor riser, which sits on top of the Povision stand To create extra height. I can’t find that exact monitor riser on Amazon anymore, however, any 9.5” riser will work. The 150” screen has it’s own stand and black skirt and was used originally for my Epson 5050UB.
> 
> Forgot to share pictures of the projector in action. This is in the middle of a sunny day with 3 fully opened windows facing directly across the screen. The color still pops like crazy, which my iphone cannot capture properly. Of course, nighttime viewing is incomparable, much better than my Epson 5050UB. The AWOL is much brighter, way better colors, and has better perceived contrast even on the white screen. I just sold the Epson.
> View attachment 3353320
> 
> View attachment 3353319


Do you have the model number/name of the Provision stand? Does the piece that the projector sits on come with the stand? I have the Samsung LSP9T that I bought in 2020. I like it a lot but would buy the AWOL if I need another UST. Thanks for your help.


----------



## Dgtr74

IrishLord82 said:


> Do you have the model number/name of the Provision stand? Does the piece that the projector sits on come with the stand? I have the Samsung LSP9T that I bought in 2020. I like it a lot but would buy the AWOL if I need another UST. Thanks for your help.


Yes, it comes with it. Here’s the model number and choice of sizes. 

TS1021BL200
78.74 x 17.72 x 11.02 inch
102.36 x 17.72 x 11.02 inch
125.98 x 17.72 x 11.02 inch


----------



## IrishLord82

Thank you. Very helpful.


----------



## Ampro4600

A golden rule when buying electronics is never to buy a product based on a promised future upgrade.

But......how likely is it, that the Awol will support DV in the near future?


----------



## Brajesh

All depends on Dolby and whether they decide to grant AWOL DV certification.


----------



## eleazar

I'm still absolutely loving my LTV-3500. It has breathed new life into all my shows and movies (and upgrading from 106" to 120" is also a massive improvement).

I was able fix the audio delay on my AppleTV by disabling Atmos in ATV sound settings (I don't have Atmos speakers).

Another nagging question. I want to make sure I'm following the right steps for getting the best quality on the projector...

If I'm watching content from AppleTV+ or Amazon Prime (specifically watching Shantaram & Peripheral); my steps on the ATV should be to enable HDR 4k 60hz in settings, and then go to the streaming app and start the show. Then ATV+ & Prime know to send HDR at the proper framerate? If I don't enable HDR in ATV settings, does ATV+ and Prime stream SDR content?

I'm just trying to figure out how all of this works in relation to the AWOL. I had HDR on my previous projector, but it was so dim it wasn't even worth watching, so I never enabled HDR in settings.


----------



## yodathekid

eleazar said:


> I'm still absolutely loving my LTV-3500. It has breathed new life into all my shows and movies (and upgrading from 106" to 120" is also a massive improvement).
> 
> I was able fix the audio delay on my AppleTV by disabling Atmos in ATV sound settings (I don't have Atmos speakers).
> 
> Another nagging question. I want to make sure I'm following the right steps for getting the best quality on the projector...
> 
> If I'm watching content from AppleTV+ or Amazon Prime (specifically watching Shantaram & Peripheral); my steps on the ATV should be to enable HDR 4k 60hz in settings, and then go to the streaming app and start the show. Then ATV+ & Prime know to send HDR at the proper framerate? If I don't enable HDR in ATV settings, does ATV+ and Prime stream SDR content?
> 
> I'm just trying to figure out how all of this works in relation to the AWOL. I had HDR on my previous projector, but it was so dim it wasn't even worth watching, so I never enabled HDR in settings.


You’ll want to make sure the Apple TV has checked all the potential frame rates it can play now. There will be a list to go through if any haven’t been checked when you turn on the function. Once that is done, I leave my menu setting at 4K SDR because I don’t need hdr in a menu.

After that you’ll want to toggle on Match Frame Rate. This will auto switch the signal’s frame rate to the content’s native frame rate.

Last but not least, turn on Match Range. This will automatically send your projector the content’s highest quality dynamic range. If HDR is available, it will send that. If only SDR is available, it will send that. whenever the Dolby vision update comes through and you select a a show/movie with Dolby vision, having match range on will tell the Apple TV to send Dolby vision to your projector (you’ll likely have to do the first step again with checking the formats when this update does launch.


----------



## brer.rabbit

Any House of the Dragon fans? Really thinking about getting this projector with a screen - and reading lots of reviews - but have not seen anything about how well do they work with the dark scenes. ala A YouTuber measured the brightness of that controversial 'House of the Dragon' episode and yes, it's really dark


----------



## yodathekid

I reached out to an owner on Twitter to ask if they would compare the HDR on HOTD to the SDR. See if they get performance out of one vs the other particularly with that Day-for-Night episode. Still waiting to hear back.


----------



## eleazar

yodathekid said:


> You’ll want to make sure the Apple TV has checked all the potential frame rates it can play now. There will be a list to go through if any haven’t been checked when you turn on the function. Once that is done, I leave my menu setting at 4K SDR because I don’t need hdr in a menu.
> 
> After that you’ll want to toggle on Match Frame Rate. This will auto switch the signal’s frame rate to the content’s native frame rate.
> 
> Last but not least, turn on Match Range. This will automatically send your projector the content’s highest quality dynamic range. If HDR is available, it will send that. If only SDR is available, it will send that. whenever the Dolby vision update comes through and you select a a show/movie with Dolby vision, having match range on will tell the Apple TV to send Dolby vision to your projector (you’ll likely have to do the first step again with checking the formats when this update does launch.


Thank you! This is extremely helpful. I will turn on both of those options and just let it negotiate the proper frame rate and dynamic range. That is a relief, rather than having to manage the settings for every show.


----------



## kraine

I have the Awol 3500 at home for the moment.

I must admit that the image accuracy is much better than the 2500 I tested (I know they are supposed to have the same optics but the differences between these two cameras are really important).
I did a calibration of the 3500 and it's quite incredible the width of this Gamut. By the way, if the CMS is particularly efficient on this model, the color temperature adjustment is less precise but still allows to obtain good results. Here are the before and after examples:

PS: Out of the box it is not good at all as you can see but it was the same with the 2500.


----------



## colinmatheny11

kraine said:


> I have the Awol 3500 at home for the moment.
> 
> I must admit that the image accuracy is much better than the 2500 I tested (I know they are supposed to have the same optics but the differences between these two cameras are really important).
> I did a calibration of the 3500 and it's quite incredible the width of this Gamut. By the way, if the CMS is particularly efficient on this model, the color temperature adjustment is less precise but still allows to obtain good results. Here are the before and after examples:
> 
> PS: Out of the box it is not good at all as you can see but it was the same with the 2500.
> 
> View attachment 3354753
> 
> View attachment 3354752
> 
> View attachment 3354751


I’d love to know what your recommended settings are if you can share them.

I’m pretty much running out of the box settings.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## leo0111127

kraine said:


> I have the Awol 3500 at home for the moment.
> 
> I must admit that the image accuracy is much better than the 2500 I tested (I know they are supposed to have the same optics but the differences between these two cameras are really important).
> I did a calibration of the 3500 and it's quite incredible the width of this Gamut. By the way, if the CMS is particularly efficient on this model, the color temperature adjustment is less precise but still allows to obtain good results. Here are the before and after examples:
> 
> PS: Out of the box it is not good at all as you can see but it was the same with the 2500.
> 
> View attachment 3354753
> 
> View attachment 3354752
> 
> View attachment 3354751


114% REC 2020, crazy


----------



## leo0111127

yodathekid said:


> This is exactly what I needed to hear. Thanks so much for expanding on your experience. Time to start budgeting for the AWOL and an ALR screen.


Trigger on Black Friday


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> I have the Awol 3500 at home for the moment.
> 
> I must admit that the image accuracy is much better than the 2500 I tested (I know they are supposed to have the same optics but the differences between these two cameras are really important).
> I did a calibration of the 3500 and it's quite incredible the width of this Gamut. By the way, if the CMS is particularly efficient on this model, the color temperature adjustment is less precise but still allows to obtain good results. Here are the before and after examples:
> 
> PS: Out of the box it is not good at all as you can see but it was the same with the 2500.
> 
> View attachment 3354753
> 
> View attachment 3354752
> 
> View attachment 3354751


That was my experience as well when compared to the 2500. 

My out of box was nearly dead nuts on. Not sure why yours wasn’t? Maybe they gave us a “golden sample” for our initial review?


----------



## kraine

Hi Dave,

I did a factory reset before starting the whole colorimetry check. I only have one copy at my disposal so it's hard to give an opinion to know if it's an isolated case. My only comparison is the 2500 which was also very badly adjusted out of the box.


----------



## eleazar

As someone that doesn't have the first clue about calibrating, would anyone be willing to share their calibrated settings for us to try out? I realize not all of the projectors are the same, but I imagine it would be an improvement over the out of the box settings.


----------



## clipghost

Is there a bigger forum to talk about the AWOL and any problems it may have? Do they have a group somewhere else? I really like how big the Formovie thread is compared to the AWOL...that allows you to see any problems that arise.


----------



## Brajesh

Facebook group, but the place is lacking more technical/valuable discussions like AVS . Can't stand FB, but that's another thing  . Hoping we can make this thread be a little like the Formovie T1/GT1 threads.

Hoping @kraine can share his settings, as well as other owners here. I recall with my original 3500 unit, the out of the box Movie mode w/'Hot' (assume they meant 'Warm') color temperature seemed quite accurate. Let's see how the second unit is. It's all eye-balling it for me and using various patterns & demo/sample clips (skin tone, nature, etc.). One trick is to play videos on your iPhone & try those same clips via your media player to adjust the projector's picture controls to match.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Facebook group, but the place is lacking more technical/valuable discussions like AVS . Can't stand FB, but that's another thing  . Hoping we can make this thread be a little like the Formovie T1/GT1 threads.
> 
> Hoping @kraine can share his settings, as well as other owners here. I recall with my original 3500 unit, the out of the box Movie mode w/'Hot' (assume they meant 'Warm') color temperature seemed quite accurate. Let's see how the second unit is. It's all eye-balling it for me and using various patterns & demo/sample clips (skin tone, nature, etc.). One trick is to play videos on your iPhone & try those same clips via your media player to adjust the projector's picture controls to match.


Thanks! God damn you went back?! What about the Formovie?! Haha


----------



## Brajesh

Sorry, yes 😳. Had told you don't be surprised if I do 😂. It was the 3D & proper ALR screen, and of course the excellent combo Black Friday deal AWOL has going. Will put Formovie on Classifieds here, or if that doesn't work, eBay.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Sorry, yes 😳. Had told you don't be surprised if I do 😂. It was the 3D & proper ALR screen, and of course the excellent combo Black Friday deal AWOL has going. Will put Formovie on Classifieds here, or if that doesn't work, eBay.


Haha amazing, I PM'd you. Let's talk there.


----------



## clipghost

Is there a cabinet hack people recommend for the AWOL-3500? I have seen the Ikea Besta one people use for the Formovie but it won't fit the AWOL. Maybe someone has some guidance or ideas? Trying to find a deep and low height console is a challenge.


----------



## avkevin

I have 8 ft walls and using the 15” high Besta cabinet for my LTV-2500. works perfectly with my 120” screen that I’ve got mounted a couple inches below the ceiling. Have receiver in the left cabinet area, amp in the right and have my center channel in th middle sticking out and angled up since it’s low to the ground. No complaints yet.


----------



## Lion DD

Dgtr74 said:


> Sharing my LTV-3500 setup with the Povision UST TV stand with a white 150” 1.1 gain screen for nighttime viewing with 3D bluray content and 4K movies and the 120” Vividstorm ALR screen for daytime viewing in my bright living room. 3D on the gigantic screen is a sight to behold. It’s just incredible! Razor sharp image with no ghosting or stutter. Could not be more happier. This setup completely replaced my 80” 3D LED TV, which got moved upstairs.
> View attachment 3351493
> 
> View attachment 3351494
> 
> View attachment 3351490
> 
> View attachment 3351492
> 
> View attachment 3351495
> 
> View attachment 3351491
> 
> View attachment 3351489


Friend,Do you have a projected image? This looks great! I am also planning to buy awol vision 3500 and vividstorm screen. How much did you buy this set for? I saw that this package is active on the vividstorm website. The projector and the screen are only $5499. Is this price already a good deal? I have an idea to buy, take a look:AWOL VISION LTV-3500 4K Triple Ultra Short Throw Laser Projector and S PRO Electric Tension Floor Screen UST Ambient Light Rejecting Material【a set】


----------



## Dgtr74

Lion DD said:


> Friend,Do you have a projected image? This looks great! I am also planning to buy awol vision 3500 and vividstorm screen. How much did you buy this set for? I saw that this package is active on the vividstorm website. The projector and the screen are only $5499. Is this price already a good deal? I have an idea to buy, take a look:AWOL VISION LTV-3500 4K Triple Ultra Short Throw Laser Projector and S PRO Electric Tension Floor Screen UST Ambient Light Rejecting Material【a set】


That’s an INCREDIBLE deal! I was one of the first Indiegogo backers and bought the Vividstorm separately. The total was close to $6000. I believe another forum member (Brajesh) was able to add another 10% savings code on top of the current deal and paid under $5000 for it. What a STEAL! I’m thinking of buying a second AWOL setup for my master bedroom. I’m away for business now till the weekend so can’t take any more pictures of my setup but the image quality is amazing. IPhone cameras will not capture the colors properly due to the Tri-laser.


----------



## Brajesh

Unfortunately that extra coupon deal is dead (as a couple AVS'ers PM'd me to say), but agree the current BF deal is good as it is.


----------



## clipghost

avkevin said:


> I have 8 ft walls and using the 15” high Besta cabinet for my LTV-2500. works perfectly with my 120” screen that I’ve got mounted a couple inches below the ceiling. Have receiver in the left cabinet area, amp in the right and have my center channel in th middle sticking out and angled up since it’s low to the ground. No complaints yet.


This is my plan as well. Can you show us a picture? I would really appreciate it!


----------



## Ampro4600

clipghost said:


> Is there a bigger forum to talk about the AWOL and any problems it may have? Do they have a group somewhere else? I really like how big the Formovie thread is compared to the AWOL...that allows you to see any problems that arise.


----------



## Ampro4600

Sucks that this offer is only in the US, and not th EU


----------



## Brajesh

Guys, just noticed an $800 instant coupon w/3500 on Amazon. Seems better than what was offered before?


----------



## chrisb42

Ampro4600 said:


> Sucks that this offer is only in the US, and not th EU


If you go to their own site, you can order from Europe with additional shipping costs added ($100 per device, i.e. $200 for the bundle):








Holiday Deal







awolvision.com












Shipping Policy


Shipping fee USA excluded Alaska and Hawaii For products like projectors, screens and accessories, it is free standard shipment and the delivery time is 3-4 business days after the order is processed. For products like Smart cabinet and Vanish Rollable Laser TV, the shipping fee is from...




awolvision.com





I actually jumped on that, as I was sitting on the fence for a UST for a while. Based on the experiences folks have described here, I shouldn’t be disappointed.


----------



## Ampro4600

chrisb42 said:


> If you go to their own site, you can order from Europe with additional shipping costs added ($100 per device, i.e. $200 for the bundle):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holiday Deal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awolvision.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shipping Policy
> 
> 
> Shipping fee USA excluded Alaska and Hawaii For products like projectors, screens and accessories, it is free standard shipment and the delivery time is 3-4 business days after the order is processed. For products like Smart cabinet and Vanish Rollable Laser TV, the shipping fee is from...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awolvision.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually jumped on that, as I was sitting on the fence for a UST for a while. Based on the experiences folks have described here, I shouldn’t be disappointed.


Yeah, but then I will have to Pay import tax, and danish VAT (25%).


----------



## MEMoore

Can someone tell me if I can use the speakers inside the LTV-3500 as a center speaker for my 5.4.2 Atmos setup? Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

Nope, none of the UST's can be used as center channel speakers.


----------



## Sundance

I just purchased a 2500 last week and the picture is amazing. I do have a couple of issues. The first one being viewing with glasses. I ware glasses and when viewing if my head is not pretty much straight on I get a red or blue fringe. At first I thought it was something to do with the convergence being off but it's my glasses. While not a deal breaker it is annoying. The other issue is I can seem to get 4k when I plug a 4k device (in my case an Amazon FireTV) into HDMI 2 which is the port with eARC. Am I doing something wrong, are they only allowing 4k on HDMI 1 which is standard audio? I am still figuring this projector out but so far it gests a 100 in picture quality and a 50 on audio and input/output functionality. Have any other owners experiences this with their 2500/3500?

P.S. the issue with the 4k video was my receiver not passing 4k, not the projector.


----------



## adrift

Sundance said:


> I just purchased a 2500 last week and the picture is amazing. I do have a couple of issues. The first one being viewing with glasses. I ware glasses and when viewing if my head is not pretty much straight on I get a red or blue fringe. At first I thought it was something to do with the convergence being off but it's my glasses. While not a deal breaker it is annoying. The other issue is I can seem to get 4k when I plug a 4k device (in my case an Amazon FireTV) into HDMI 2 which is the port with eARC. Am I doing something wrong, are they only allowing 4k on HDMI 1 which is standard audio? I am still figuring this projector out but so far it gests a 100 in picture quality and a 50 on audio and input/output functionality. Have any other owners experiences this with their 2500/3500?
> 
> P.S. the issue with the 4k video was my receiver not passing 4k, not the projector.


I can't speak to your issues while wearing glasses, but I'm having no issues going from eArc to my receiver and getting 4k on the 3500. Do you own a receiver, or are you going from source right to the projector?


----------



## adrift

This projector is a massive upgrade for me as far as color and resolution. Really really loving this. Blown away everytime I turn it on, but what's everyone's thoughts about the 3D so far?

I'm coming from the 1080p version of the XGIMI Lune UST, so again, this is quite the upgrade, but so far I think the 3D experience was better on that machine. I'm waiting on a new pair of 3D glasses, but so far the pop and depth seem a bit shallow and messy in fast action scenes. Anyone else have this experience or is it just me?


Also, does anyone have any calibration advice? My image mode is currently on Standard, I've turned off MEMC and noise reduction. Left dynamic contrast on. Turned color temperature to hot for now, but that's about as far as I've gotten.


----------



## avkevin

I have the 2500. Love it! I’ve been playing around a lot with different video settings. This is what I’ve been using recently


----------



## Dave Harper

Sundance said:


> I just purchased a 2500 last week and the picture is amazing. I do have a couple of issues. The first one being viewing with glasses. I ware glasses and when viewing if my head is not pretty much straight on I get a red or blue fringe. At first I thought it was something to do with the convergence being off but it's my glasses. While not a deal breaker it is annoying. The other issue is I can seem to get 4k when I plug a 4k device (in my case an Amazon FireTV) into HDMI 2 which is the port with eARC. Am I doing something wrong, are they only allowing 4k on HDMI 1 which is standard audio? I am still figuring this projector out but so far it gests a 100 in picture quality and a 50 on audio and input/output functionality. Have any other owners experiences this with their 2500/3500?
> 
> P.S. the issue with the 4k video was my receiver not passing 4k, not the projector.


I have the same issue with the Samsung LSP9T. The only way to fix it is to get a new set of glasses that don’t have their own chromatic aberrations, which is what you’re experiencing. 

You’ll need to explain what you’re seeing and your experiences with your optometrist and ask which type of lenses will alleviate this.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

adrift said:


> This projector is a massive upgrade for me as far as color and resolution. Really really loving this. Blown away everytime I turn it on, but what's everyone's thoughts about the 3D so far?
> 
> I'm coming from the 1080p version of the XGIMI Lune UST, so again, this is quite the upgrade, but so far I think the 3D experience was better on that machine. I'm waiting on a new pair of 3D glasses, but so far the pop and depth seem a bit shallow and messy in fast action scenes. Anyone else have this experience or is it just me?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone have any calibration advice? My image mode is currently on Standard, I've turned off MEMC and noise reduction. Left dynamic contrast on. Turned color temperature to hot for now, but that's about as far as I've gotten.


I've had the opposite experience. Maybe it's your player? I'm using a Zidoo and the pop and depth are the best I've seen--pair that with the brightness of the LTV-3500 and it's some of the best 3D I've ever seen and I've been an enthusiast ever since operating some of the first Christie 3D and RealD projectors/Z-Screens back in 2007. To me it's equal if not better to the IMAX and PRIME theaters I've seen. 

What glasses are you using? Because that part of the equation as glasses can change the color and brightness. 

Which content do you consider Shallow? Some content will be shallow and that's no fault of the output device.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

kraine said:


> I have the Awol 3500 at home for the moment.
> 
> I must admit that the image accuracy is much better than the 2500 I tested (I know they are supposed to have the same optics but the differences between these two cameras are really important).
> I did a calibration of the 3500 and it's quite incredible the width of this Gamut. By the way, if the CMS is particularly efficient on this model, the color temperature adjustment is less precise but still allows to obtain good results. Here are the before and after examples:
> 
> PS: Out of the box it is not good at all as you can see but it was the same with the 2500.
> 
> View attachment 3354753
> 
> View attachment 3354752
> 
> View attachment 3354751


 Yowza 112.7% of Rec 20202 calibrated?!?! The red is off the charts on mine too.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Sorry, yes 😳. Had told you don't be surprised if I do 😂. It was the 3D & proper ALR screen, and of course the excellent combo Black Friday deal AWOL has going. Will put Formovie on Classifieds here, or if that doesn't work, eBay.


@Brajesh Is this still true? Man I've missed a lot if so.


----------



## clipghost

Casey_Bryson said:


> @Brajesh Is this still true? Man I've missed a lot if so.


He is jumping ship!


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> This projector is a massive upgrade for me as far as color and resolution. Really really loving this. Blown away everytime I turn it on, but what's everyone's thoughts about the 3D so far?
> 
> I'm coming from the 1080p version of the XGIMI Lune UST, so again, this is quite the upgrade, but so far I think the 3D experience was better on that machine. I'm waiting on a new pair of 3D glasses, but so far the pop and depth seem a bit shallow and messy in fast action scenes. Anyone else have this experience or is it just me?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone have any calibration advice? My image mode is currently on Standard, I've turned off MEMC and noise reduction. Left dynamic contrast on. Turned color temperature to hot for now, but that's about as far as I've gotten.


Definitely get new glasses or check your settings because the AWOL 3500 is the BEST 3D experience I’ve ever had bar none..and I’ve had plenty of 3D LED TV and other 3D projectors. The 3D is perfect, its bright and colors just pop with great separation and no jitter. These are my settings for a vibrant 3D image day or night. Also, sharing a couple of through the 3D glass pics of my 120” Vividstorm and 150” white screen. The iPhone doesn’t do the image justice. It’s looks way better in person.


----------



## Lion DD

Dgtr74 said:


> That’s an INCREDIBLE deal! I was one of the first Indiegogo backers and bought the Vividstorm separately. The total was close to $6000. I believe another forum member (Brajesh) was able to add another 10% savings code on top of the current deal and paid under $5000 for it. What a STEAL! I’m thinking of buying a second AWOL setup for my master bedroom. I’m away for business now till the weekend so can’t take any more pictures of my setup but the image quality is amazing. IPhone cameras will not capture the colors properly due to the Tri-laser.


Wow! You're going to buy a second set,  which must cost a lot! I have been hesitant to buy the first set for a long time, but I will make a decision before this offer ends, after all, the price and the combination of awol vision and vividstorm are still very attractive.


----------



## adrift

Hmm. So it's probably just me then. Thank you for sharing your settings. I have a few pairs of cheap Apeman and Boblov DLP glasses that I bought in 2018. I'm trying to get a pair of Xpand DLP glasses, but they're really hard to find. What are you all using?


----------



## Brajesh

Casey_Bryson said:


> @Brajesh Is this still true? Man I've missed a lot if so.


True😳... realized I made a mistake returning 3500. Going back to 3D on BenQ 2050A was nowhere as good (even though I'd been fine w/2050A 3D quality before), and dual PJ set-up was a hassle w/my HDFury & AVR not switching properly, predictably every time. So, when I saw the BF 3500 + Vividstorm 120" combo deal w/10% coupon (now dead) on top, it was a no-brainer. Both for just under $5K shipped. And, you were right about how much better an ALR screen would be, even in a light-controlled room. Had just resisted downsizing from 145" white screen to 120" ALR, but as Vividstorm allows for easier placement, I just moved the screen closer to viewing area. Expecting 3500 tomorrow to complete this set-up 😀.


----------



## Dgtr74

I’ve been watching different 3D movies and all I can say is it’s hard for me to go back and watch a flat 2D image, even though the 3500 has some of the best 4K HDR I’ve seen on a projector. I will always buy the 3D version of movies if it’s available. Can’t wait to watch the new Avatar in 3D. This is a link to the 3D glasses I have below. I have 10 of them since it’s pretty cheap (Big extended family). My kids hated watching 3D before on other platforms since it made them nauseated and dizzy due to the image being dark with blurriness and jitter. With the AWOL, they are loving it! I just bought another 100 3D blu-rays to enjoy. These settings provide the punchiest picture for me during day or night viewing with or without 3D. Much better vs the presets that’s available. Matches the colors of my Apple Pro XDR display. 144Hz DLP Link 3D Glasses, Rechargeable 3D Active Shutter Glasses for All DLP-Link 3D Projectors, Can't Used for TVs, Compatible with BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Acer, Viewsonic DLP Projector (Blue- 2 Pack) https://a.co/d/g8ogUtk


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> I’ve been watching different 3D movies and all I can say is it’s hard for me to go back and watch a flat 2D image, even though the 3500 has some of the best 4K HDR I’ve seen on a projector. I will always buy the 3D version of movies if it’s available. Can’t wait to watch the new Avatar in 3D. This is a link to the 3D glasses I have below. I have 10 of them since it’s pretty cheap (Big extended family). My kids hated watching 3D before on other platforms since it made them nauseated and dizzy due to the image being dark with blurriness and jitter. With the AWOL, they are loving it! I just bought another 100 3D blu-rays to enjoy. These settings provide the punchiest picture for me during day or night viewing with or without 3D. Much better vs the presets that’s available. Matches the colors of my Apple Pro XDR display. 144Hz DLP Link 3D Glasses, Rechargeable 3D Active Shutter Glasses for All DLP-Link 3D Projectors, Can't Used for TVs, Compatible with BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Acer, Viewsonic DLP Projector (Blue- 2 Pack) https://a.co/d/g8ogUtk


Darn, well I don't think it's my glasses then, because I have a pair of this same brand and model. I mean, I'm still getting some pop up and depth, but nothing like I was expecting coming from the Lune. Has to be my settings. 

As an aside, of the two brands of glasses I have, the Boblov's do provide better detail, but the fact that they don't have thick sides means that you see a lot of peripheral which can be distracting, and they're not very comfortable.


----------



## Brajesh

Good to see 3D fans here ! While 4K is great, nothing beats the immersive experience of 3D. Combined w/ATMOS or DTS:X, it's movie watching nirvana. The Boblov glasses are my faves as well.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Good to see 3D fans here ! While 4K is great, nothing beats the immersive experience of 3D. Combined w/ATMOS or DTS:X, it's movie watching nirvana. The Boblov glasses are my faves as well.


The 3D phase died for me when trying on TV. Maybe this will get me back into it!


----------



## Brajesh

Oh certainly, bigger impact on a larger screen.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Good to see 3D fans here ! While 4K is great, nothing beats the immersive experience of 3D. Combined w/ATMOS or DTS:X, it's movie watching nirvana. The Boblov glasses are my faves as well.


Thanks, just order the Boblov glasses as well to compare to what I have. Are there one’s that cover the sides?


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks, just order the Boblov glasses as well to compare to what I have. Are there one’s that cover the sides?


Yes, and agreed on the big 3D experience with ATMOS or DTS-X sound. It’s incredible. Just found these. World Leading Provider of 3D Solutions – XPAND 3D provides state-of-the-art 3D technology for cinema, home entertainment, professional environment, education and medicine. For more on 3D Glasses and 3D Systems visit xpandvision.com


----------



## Brajesh

Or these.


----------



## adrift

Yep, there's some discussion about the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R's on the AWOL Facebook page. They're super hard to find (I think a version was made by Xpand for Panasonic), but one of the users (I'm assuming one of you all) was able to provide some contact information. Ask for Vince at [email protected]


----------



## colinmatheny11

adrift said:


> This projector is a massive upgrade for me as far as color and resolution. Really really loving this. Blown away everytime I turn it on, but what's everyone's thoughts about the 3D so far?
> 
> I'm coming from the 1080p version of the XGIMI Lune UST, so again, this is quite the upgrade, but so far I think the 3D experience was better on that machine. I'm waiting on a new pair of 3D glasses, but so far the pop and depth seem a bit shallow and messy in fast action scenes. Anyone else have this experience or is it just me?
> 
> 
> Also, does anyone have any calibration advice? My image mode is currently on Standard, I've turned off MEMC and noise reduction. Left dynamic contrast on. Turned color temperature to hot for now, but that's about as far as I've gotten.


Have you tried the Left/Right setting under the 3D menu? 

If it’s blurry with no depth, I’d try the Right setting instead of the default left setting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Casey_Bryson

adrift said:


> Yep, there's some discussion about the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R's on the AWOL Facebook page. They're super hard to find (I think a version was made by Xpand for Panasonic), but one of the users (I'm assuming one of you all) was able to provide some contact information. Ask for Vince at [email protected]


That would be me. They are by far better than anything else out there--bigger lenses, brighter, more light transmitance, no color change etc... Well worth the cost for your main set. I have boblovs for the kids as they get you about 80% of the way there.


----------



## adrift

colinmatheny11 said:


> Have you tried the Left/Right setting under the 3D menu?
> 
> If it’s blurry with no depth, I’d try the Right setting instead of the default left setting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great idea, but I _think_ I might have found the issue. I started noticing screen tearing which told me that my refresh rate was off somewhere in my chain. I think I found it and I'm testing now. Thanks for everyone who offered advice.


----------



## adrift

Casey_Bryson said:


> That would be me. They are by far better than anything else out there--bigger lenses, brighter, more light transmitance, no color change etc... Well worth the cost for your main set. I have boblovs for the kids as they get you about 80% of the way there.


Awesome! I picked up a couple pair so I should be set. Thanks!


----------



## Dgtr74

colinmatheny11 said:


> Have you tried the Left/Right setting under the 3D menu?
> 
> If it’s blurry with no depth, I’d try the Right setting instead of the default left setting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For me, instead of going into the AWOL 3D settings to adjust Left/Right every time, I just click the power button on the 3D glass itself to toggle right/left until I get the perfect/correct 3D image. Much easier and quicker.


----------



## Brajesh

Is there a quicker way to activate 3D (vs. going into settings)? If not, thinking of programming my Harmony with a sequence of steps w/necessary delays in between.


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> Yep, there's some discussion about the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R's on the AWOL Facebook page. They're super hard to find (I think a version was made by Xpand for Panasonic), but one of the users (I'm assuming one of you all) was able to provide some contact information. Ask for Vince at [email protected]


Awesome, thx! I just spoke to Vince at Xpand Vision and ordered 4 pairs and canceled the Amazon Boblov ones.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Is there a quicker way to activate 3D (vs. going into settings)? If not, thinking of programming my Harmony with a sequence of steps w/necessary delays in between.


I think there’s a lot of request for this to happen automatically in the next update. It doesn’t bother me but if you can program it on your remote then that’s a good workaround for now. 

Just wanted to throw this out there….If someone has an extensive 3D blu-ray collection that they are looking to offload and would like to sell it then let me know. I’ll make an offer for it.


----------



## brer.rabbit

Wish me luck, just placed my order but with the 110 screen. (120 wont fit for my living room) Would have ordered sooner but for whatever reason they don't have paypal so had to wait for replacement credit card. Will post some picture of my setup after I get that going. My Living room is wired 5.1.4 and driving it with a Onkyo RZ50 so hopefully it plays nice with that.

I may end up trying to do a motorized tray - but figure I can work on that later if I really need that. (I have this as my media cabinet / component rack right now ) Tribesigns TV Stand, 3-Tier Media Entertainment Center for TV up to 85"Rustic & Black


----------



## Brajesh

Got my 3500 today, and (as expected) it pairs perfectly w/Vividstorm .6 ALR. Still bright even w/lower gain vs. my previous 1.3. The focus and sharpness on this is noticeably better than Formovie...














What options did y'all set for these 3?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> Got my 3500 today, and (as expected) it pairs perfectly w/Vividstorm .6 ALR. Still bright even w/lower gain vs. my previous 1.3. The focus and sharpness on this is noticeably better than Formovie...
> View attachment 3360136
> View attachment 3360135
> 
> 
> What options did y'all set for these 3?
> View attachment 3360137
> View attachment 3360138
> View attachment 3360139


Low delay is game mode so off unless you want the lower input lag. Actuator control should always be on, it's the pixel shifting tech that gets you a 4K resolution. Light is up to you, I choose custom and set it to 10, really makes HDR pop even more. I believe Bright is basically equivalent to 7 or 8 on user. Intelligent light sensor controls the laser depending on the ambient lighting condition. If you choose that option you can't manually change the laser choice. It can provide even better blacks by diming the laser if it senses you're in a dark room.


----------



## Brajesh

Thanks. Everything looks great... DV using HDFury (hopefully until AWOL adds this natively), HDR10+ and HDR. With Formovie & AWOL, the only issue I have is with home movies filmed using iPhone 13/14 DV... too bright & washed out (on any DV display other than iPhone/iPad). It's likely an Apple thing I'm guessing... thinking if switching to 4K SDR shooting.


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> Thanks. Everything looks great... DV using HDFury (hopefully until AWOL adds this natively), HDR10+ and HDR. With Formovie & AWOL, the only issue I have is with home movies filmed using iPhone 13/14 DV... too bright & washed out (on any DV display other than iPhone/iPad). It's likely an Apple thing I'm guessing... thinking if switching to 4K SDR shooting.


You can tap on the screen and hold to focus. Once it's lock, try slide your finger near the focus box down to reduce exposure.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Got my 3500 today, and (as expected) it pairs perfectly w/Vividstorm .6 ALR. Still bright even w/lower gain vs. my previous 1.3. The focus and sharpness on this is noticeably better than Formovie...
> View attachment 3360136
> View attachment 3360135
> 
> 
> What options did y'all set for these 3?
> View attachment 3360137
> View attachment 3360138
> View attachment 3360139


Nice! Does the AWOL and Vividstorm have to be the exact same level or could the AWOL be put a bit below it? Trying to figure out if my shelf idea in a cabinet will work.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> Low delay is game mode so off unless you want the lower input lag. Actuator control should always be on, it's the pixel shifting tech that gets you a 4K resolution. Light is up to you, I choose custom and set it to 10, really makes HDR pop even more. I believe Bright is basically equivalent to 7 or 8 on user. Intelligent light sensor controls the laser depending on the ambient lighting condition. If you choose that option you can't manually change the laser choice. It can provide even better blacks by diming the laser if it senses you're in a dark room.


Agreed @arsenalfc89 though I don't see a difference with Low Delay since I disable MPEG, MEMC, and Noise Reduction. I keep Low Delay so I don't have to switch it on when gaming and I haven't seen any difference. Let me know if there is something I'm not seeing. 


@Brajesh 
As far as Light Settings go I set mine to High Dynamic and if it fluctuates the color too much, then I switch to Low Dynamic where I hardly ever detect a color change because: 1.Low Dynamic doesn't dim as drasticly as High Dynamic and 2. I have calibrated white point (temperature) at the mid point between the red to green color change that occurs. 

With this configuration I can use High Dynamic about half the time without detecting any color change and experience much better contrast in low APL scenes as well as better percieved black level. If I have to switch to Low Dynamic it is still very acceptable and about half the strength of High Dynamic so it's a tradeoff, but the compromise is worth it in some cases. SIDE NOTE: If only AWOL had a button to turn laser dimming on and off manually. I would prefer that instead of the compromise that has to be made. 

I haven't had to resort to anything other Light Setting when watching Movies. The only time I use anything else is when it's close to bed time and I need to rest my eyes while playing a game or reading AVSForum ;-) that is when I switch it to 0 out of 10 in the custom light settings. On 0 it seems to be around 2500 lumens. After using it for a while it seems bright, but then I turn it to 10 or Dynamic and the sun comes out ;-)


----------



## Rafic8

Haloo frinds
Need your help get adicision... 
Just order yesterday the formovie theater global and it will going to be available only by the end of the month... 
So in the mean time Im wondering if the awol tlv 3500 will worth the extra moeny and upgrade to the formovie.. (I know it's discous a lot here but again u have the unit..) 
I have the vivid storm 120" alr and going to use it in my main living room.. 
Apriciat it
Rafi


----------



## Monkd

Anyone have input on AWOL cinematic ALR vs the VIVIDSTORM? I am torn between the bundles. Bundles
I know a lot of people have experience on vividstorm but don't know anything about their Cinematic ALR.


----------



## Brajesh

I'd do fixed screen if your set-up is conducive to it vs. Vividstorm. It's just going to be more flat, even. I do like my Vividstorm screen, but having trouble getting it & AWOL (even w/its 4 adjustable feet) aligned just right...
















clipghost said:


> Nice! Does the AWOL and Vividstorm have to be the exact same level or could the AWOL be put a bit below it? Trying to figure out if my shelf idea in a cabinet will work.


Just shy of 12" from the bottom of the screen surface to the top of the AWOL.


----------



## adrift

What is the MPEG setting? Is that another noise filter setting? If so, how does it differ from the actual Reduce Noise setting?

Also, what are people's thoughts about turning on the "Movie" or "Hot" setting for a more accurate picture? I'm torn cause on one hand I want that more accurate/director-intended picture, on the other hand, the pop that you get from just having it set even to just "Standard" is really gorgeous....


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> I'd do fixed screen if your set-up is conducive to it vs. Vividstorm. It's just going to be more flat, even. I do like my Vividstorm screen, but having trouble getting it & AWOL (even w/its 4 adjustable feet) aligned just right...
> View attachment 3360284
> View attachment 3360283


It might look like the table is perfectly flat but really isn't. Had the same issue but solved by adjusting the feet. The back (closer to you) left feet will need to be raised higher than the top left feet. Just gotta play with it and see what each feet adjustment does to the image.


----------



## arsenalfc89

adrift said:


> What is the MPEG setting? Is that another noise filter setting? If so, how does it differ from the actual Reduce Noise setting?
> 
> Also, what are people's thoughts about turning on the "Movie" or "Hot" setting for a more accurate picture? I'm torn cause on one hand I want that more accurate/director-intended picture, on the other hand, the pop that you get from just having it set even to just "Standard" is really gorgeous....


MPEG is a noise filter and helps with the background mosquito noise. This may soften the image some but not as much as the other Noise filter option. I don't use movie or hot since my projector is calibrated but if you don't go that route I say pick whichever one you like. Yeah director intent is ideal if you calibrate but if you're not spending money on calibration then choose whichever you like. You alone are living with the projector so enjoy it and in this case it's Standard.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> Agreed @arsenalfc89 though I don't see a difference with Low Delay since I disable MPEG, MEMC, and Noise Reduction. I keep Low Delay so I don't have to switch it on when gaming and I haven't seen any difference. Let me know if there is something I'm not seeing.
> 
> 
> @Brajesh
> As far as Light Settings go I set mine to High Dynamic and if it fluctuates the color too much, then I switch to Low Dynamic where I hardly ever detect a color change because: 1.Low Dynamic doesn't dim as drasticly as High Dynamic and 2. I have calibrated white point (temperature) at the mid point between the red to green color change that occurs.
> 
> With this configuration I can use High Dynamic about half the time without detecting any color change and experience much better contrast in low APL scenes as well as better percieved black level. If I have to switch to Low Dynamic it is still very acceptable and about half the strength of High Dynamic so it's a tradeoff, but the compromise is worth it in some cases. SIDE NOTE: If only AWOL had a button to turn laser dimming on and off manually. I would prefer that instead of the compromise that has to be made.
> 
> I haven't had to resort to anything other Light Setting when watching Movies. The only time I use anything else is when it's close to bed time and I need to rest my eyes while playing a game or reading AVSForum ;-) that is when I switch it to 0 out of 10 in the custom light settings. On 0 it seems to be around 2500 lumens. After using it for a while it seems bright, but then I turn it to 10 or Dynamic and the sun comes out ;-)


I keep low delay off all the time but when I used it, I noticed it dimmed the image slightly. You use a higher gain so maybe it was harder to notice.


----------



## Brajesh

@arsenalfc89, @Casey_Bryson, others, are you guys finding the 'Movie' mode throws fairly accurate colors as is? Did you make any picture adjustments? Mine seems to have slightly elevated blue & red.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> @arsenalfc89, @Casey_Bryson, others, are you guys finding the 'Movie' mode throws fairly accurate colors as is? Did you make any picture adjustments? Mine seems to have slightly elevated blue & red.


If I can remember correctly movie with hot should be fairly accurate. The AWOL is extremely easy to get accurate colors so I suggest getting it calibrated. Or you can tone down the blue and red to your liking. If you're using HDFury then you should be good to go. I believe that's what you use right?


----------



## Brajesh

Using HDFury really only for DV content, especially those w/Profile 5 that don't have a HDR base layer. Once (hopefully) AWOL adds DV natively, I'll eBay off my HDFury.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> @arsenalfc89, @Casey_Bryson, others, are you guys finding the 'Movie' mode throws fairly accurate colors as is? Did you make any picture adjustments? Mine seems to have slightly elevated blue & red.


Which temperature is default with Movie Mode? It can't be Hot right? Movie Mode adds all the things I don't want (MPEG, Noise Reduction, etc) other than a Dark gamut and HDR Auto.

Standard (RGB all at 0) was perfect right out of the box for me and what I think why they don't have a Warm. Warm usually means a White Point of D65--my white point is nice and warm, not too hot or too cold.

Hot makes the White Point Yellow on mine, so too much Green and too much Red=Yellow.

I start with Standard and just compensate for the laser dimming by adding more Red and diminishing the Green.


----------



## adrift

Kind of a goofy question, but is anyone having issues with their remote powering their device on? I can do everything else with the remote, move around menus and turn the projector off, but a couple of days ago the remote simply decided it wouldn't turn the projector on anymore. I'm wondering if I maybe bumped an option that's preventing me from powering the unit on by accident, but I can't seem to find any option that would do that.


Edit: Never mind. I had something blocking the IR receiver, and the reason it was working while on was because it apparently goes into bluetooth mode afterwards.


----------



## avkevin

I have the 2500. My first projector of any kind and I'm very happy with it!

Only issue I have is that when using my Apple TV (which I use 90% of the time) this HDMI icon and message keeps popping up whenever an app switches from one screen to the other. For example If I'm on the main screen for a movie and click play, when the apple tv switches to play the movie, that split second the screen goes blank to transition, this HDMI icon displays for several seconds and displays while the movie/show is starting. YouTube app is the worst. Between selecting something to play, playing one or two commercials, then the video, then any commercials during the video, that HDMI message keeps popping up between each transition for what seems like 5-7 seconds each time while video starts playing. Gets really annoying when I'm in "surfing" mode and just jumping from video to video. I've messaged the AWOL support about it but have not gotten a response.

I've included a few images. Picture is way better than what's captured by the camera. First image is with curtains open so for those on the fence, you can see that the IKEA BESTA cabinet is just short enough to use with a 120" screen with 8 Ft tall ceiling. Still have several inches before hitting the ceiling. The projector position and throw isn't wide enough to place the center behind the projector so I have it under and angled up. Honestly I can't tell that much of difference than when I had my old TV mounted on the wall with center channel below that and was more in-line with my ear level.

However, if you have 10ft or higher ceilings, while I haven't run the math because it's a mute point for me, you may be able to position a center channel behind the projector and under the screen if you have a 150 inch screen which pulls the projector out a few more inches and projects higher on the wall. That might be a large enough gap to place a center speaker behind and higher than the projector while still sitting below the screen. If that makes sense anyway.


----------



## arsenalfc89

It’s showing the HDMI icon because you have the match matching frame or match dynamic range turned on in the Apple TV settings. YouTube implementation is the worst smh. Turn it off and you’ll be good.


----------



## Brajesh

Casey_Bryson said:


> Which temperature is default with Movie Mode? It can't be Hot right? Movie Mode adds all the things I don't want (MPEG, Noise Reduction, etc) other than a Dark gamut and HDR Auto.


Movie mode is 'Hot' by default I think, but I lowered/disabled sharpness, NR, etc. Sharing my settings... feel there's some red & blue push to the picture, but curious what y'all settings you use.


----------



## avkevin

arsenalfc89 said:


> It’s showing the HDMI icon because you have the match matching frame or match dynamic range turned on in the Apple TV settings. YouTube implementation is the worst smh. Turn it off and you’ll be good.


That worked! Thank you so much!!! Much better experience now.


----------



## adrift

heavyharmonies said:


> I posted this to the wrong thread, oops... To anyone else with an AWOL unit and a Vividstorm motorized screen: have you been able to get the USB trigger provided by Vividstorm to work with the AWOL? I have not been able to get it to work. Vividstorm provides the trigger as a "beta" freebie and do not guarantee compatibility. As far as I can tell, it is black-box technology, i.e., nothing configurable, unless there is a projector setting, e.g., CEC or something similar that can be adjusted.


Did you ever find a way to get this working?

Also, am I blind or does the forum no longer have a way to search within threads?


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Casey_Bryson said:


> Contact AWOL support. They will send you a remote and instructions to install TI DLP software to update the DLP and MCU firmware via a laptop.


I contacted AWOL support and they sent me a remote model CN-32905 like this one: https://es.aliexpress.com/i/1295887765.html

But NO instructions on how to install the TI DLP software to update the DLP and MCU firmware from a laptop. Does anyone have this? Or do I contact them again?


----------



## colinmatheny11

Lightning deal up on Amazon for the 2500 and 3500!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Casey_Bryson

luisenriquereyes said:


> I contacted AWOL support and they sent me a remote model CN-32905 like this one: https://es.aliexpress.com/i/1295887765.html
> 
> But NO instructions on how to install the TI DLP software to update the DLP and MCU firmware from a laptop. Does anyone have this? Or do I contact them again?


Contact support again. They'Il send you a link to the 2500 downloads. I only have the 3500 link.


----------



## adrift

heavyharmonies said:


> I posted this to the wrong thread, oops... To anyone else with an AWOL unit and a Vividstorm motorized screen: have you been able to get the USB trigger provided by Vividstorm to work with the AWOL? I have not been able to get it to work. Vividstorm provides the trigger as a "beta" freebie and do not guarantee compatibility. As far as I can tell, it is black-box technology, i.e., nothing configurable, unless there is a projector setting, e.g., CEC or something similar that can be adjusted.


I found the solution. You have to re-pair the USB "trigger" with the screen. To do that you have to power off the screen, then plug the USB device into a power bank/ portable charger (barring that, plugging it into a laptop or some other device where it's powered should work). 

Then flip on the power for the screen and when it emits the long tone/beep, at the same time stick a pen or some other sharp object into the hole on the USB trigger. The tone should change into five beeps and then it'll be paired.

Plug the USB trigger back into the back of your projector and boom, you're done.

Here's a link from Vividstorm's website that goes into this with detail and has a small video. Ignore the picture where it shows the manual up/down screen switch set to the up position. I'm not sure why they put that in there but it doesn't really have anything to do with pairing the USB trigger.









Home theater intelligent settings - realize the simultaneous work of the projector and the projection screen


With the continuous development of projectors and projection screens, the home audio and video system has become more and more perfect, and for enthusiasts who are keen to pursue home theater, not only higher configuration projectors and 4k or even 6K projection image quality, They began to...




vividstormscreen.com


----------



## paragmoon

Hello all...
i bought the awol 3500 via the amazon lightening deal.
i nearly bought the 3500+120" floor rising ALR bundle from teh awol site, but changed my mind at the very last moment, due to below 2 reasons
* mixed reviews about the floor rising screen itself and returning the screen.

Vividstorm Floor Raising Screen


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/projectors/comments/ktr7g2

* price difference of ~$1200 between the bundle deal and projector only.

so seeking advice from the learned community on how has been your experience with the 120" screen
secondly and more important how much of a difference does the alr screen really bring in to the picture quality (i can control the lightening in my family room to some extent)


----------



## chrisb42

Ampro4600 said:


> Yeah, but then I will have to Pay import tax, and danish VAT (25%).


Just to update, received the projector on Thursday and it actually was shipped from Germany, so no additional cost! The screen will come tomorrow from the UK, so thanks to Brexit that will cost me some customs fees, but it’s less than 180 €, so not so bad after all.


----------



## avkevin

paragmoon said:


> so seeking advice from the learned community on how has been your experience with the 120" screen secondly and more important how much of a difference does the alr screen really bring in to the picture quality (i can control the lightening in my family room to some extent)


I got the 2500/120” alr mounted screen combo over the summer. I can say it’s 1000% better using the screen than just projecting on the wall. If you’re asking difference between a normal screen and an ALR, i can’t speak to that. But I’d assume it’s better or they wouldn’t make them.


----------



## Dgtr74

paragmoon said:


> Hello all...
> i bought the awol 3500 via the amazon lightening deal.
> i nearly bought the 3500+120" floor rising ALR bundle from teh awol site, but changed my mind at the very last moment, due to below 2 reasons
> * mixed reviews about the floor rising screen itself and returning the screen.
> 
> Vividstorm Floor Raising Screen
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/projectors/comments/ktr7g2
> 
> * price difference of ~$1200 between the bundle deal and projector only.
> 
> so seeking advice from the learned community on how has been your experience with the 120" screen
> secondly and more important how much of a difference does the alr screen really bring in to the picture quality (i can control the lightening in my family room to some extent)


I have the 120” Vividstorm ALR motorized screen. I can tell you that the ALR screen makes a HUGE difference during day or night viewing in impacting the contrast vs a white screen. Although in a completely dark room, the 150” white screen that I have looks fantastic as well. Here’s some pics of the ALR and 3500 in action during broad daylight with all my windows open. I can also tell you these pics don’t do the real image justice. The image is truly TV like with incredible detail and has replaced my 80” 3D LED TV. Sharing my settings for HDR content. I keep hearing movie setting is most accurate but I find it kinda too yellowish. These settings for me produced the best HDR results on my ALR screen in any lighting condition that I tested. 

Image mode: HDR User
Brightness: 54
Contrast: 53
Chroma: 57 
Tone: 0 
Sharpness: 12
Light mode: High dynamic or Low dynamic (for 3D movies, I use Bright setting or you can even go higher by cranking the laser to level 10)
Intelligent Light sensor: Off
MEMC: Low or Off 
Low delay mode: Off
Noise reduction: Off
Dynamic contrast: On
Gamma: Middle
Color temperature: Standard
MPEG: Off
HDR: Auto

All pics taken during the day with window blinds open. Of course, at night the image looks even better with much higher contrast using it with an ALR screen.


----------



## paragmoon

Dgtr74 said:


> I have the 120” Vividstorm ALR motorized screen. I can tell you that the ALR screen makes a HUGE difference during day or night viewing in impacting the contrast vs a white screen. Although in a completely dark room, the 150” white screen that I have looks fantastic as well. Here’s some pics of the ALR and 3500 in action during broad daylight with all my windows open. I can also tell you these pics don’t do the real image justice. The image is truly TV like with incredible detail and has replaced my 80” 3D LED TV. Sharing my settings for HDR content. I keep hearing movie setting is most accurate but I find it kinda too yellowish. These settings for me produced the best HDR results on my ALR screen in any lighting condition that I tested.
> 
> Image mode: HDR User
> Brightness: 54
> Contrast: 53
> Chroma: 57
> Tone: 0
> Sharpness: 12
> Light mode: High dynamic or Low dynamic (for 3D movies, I use Bright setting or you can even go higher by cranking the laser to level 10)
> Intelligent Light sensor: Off
> MEMC: Low or Off
> Low delay mode: Off
> Noise reduction: Off
> Dynamic contrast: On
> Gamma: Middle
> Color temperature: Standard
> MPEG: Off
> HDR: Auto
> 
> All pics taken during the day with window blinds open. Of course, at night the image looks even better with much higher contrast using it with an ALR screen.
> View attachment 3361965
> 
> View attachment 3361967
> 
> View attachment 3361966


Thanks Dgtr for sharing ur expereince and the pics.
Did u notice any of the issues mentioned in those threads (horizontal or vertical wrinkles) or any mechanical issues whilc operating the screen.
... and may I ask how long have you owned the alr screen. thank!!


----------



## adrift

paragmoon said:


> Hello all...
> i bought the awol 3500 via the amazon lightening deal.
> i nearly bought the 3500+120" floor rising ALR bundle from teh awol site, but changed my mind at the very last moment, due to below 2 reasons
> * mixed reviews about the floor rising screen itself and returning the screen.
> 
> Vividstorm Floor Raising Screen
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/projectors/comments/ktr7g2
> 
> * price difference of ~$1200 between the bundle deal and projector only.
> 
> so seeking advice from the learned community on how has been your experience with the 120" screen
> secondly and more important how much of a difference does the alr screen really bring in to the picture quality (i can control the lightening in my family room to some extent)


I got the bundle deal from Projectorscreen, and the 120" Vividstorm self-rising screen has exceeded my expectations. I had heard about the wrinkle issue when I first looked into these screens about a year or two ago, and the advice that you should allow it to stay up for a couple days to undo all wrinkles. But what very slight creases are visible on the screen with no projection, completely disappear with the projector on. I had completely forgotten about the wrinkle issue until I walked close up to the screen one day and examined it without the projector on. 

Not only that, but this is replacing an XYScreens Pet Crystal screen that I had hanging in front of a window, and that screen allowed light to pass through. No light passes through this screen whatsoever. 

Furthermore, I had expected the lift motion to be kind of juttery and shaky and I was of nervous about that because I placed it on a stand behind my entertainment center, but this thing raises and lowers as smooth as butter. 

Really couldn't be happier with both the projector and the screen. I could be wrong but If memory serves, Vividstorm has largely resolved their issue with noticable screen wrinkles.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Casey_Bryson said:


> Contact support again. They'Il send you a link to the 2500 downloads. I only have the 3500 link.


Support sent me link to the files and video instructions. It all worked and we watched our first 3d movie and it was excellent 😁 We have these 3D Active Shutter Glasses:



https://a.co/d/elyNuCp



Are these the best?

Or do you recommend a better one?


----------



## Dgtr74

paragmoon said:


> Thanks Dgtr for sharing ur expereince and the pics.
> Did u notice any of the issues mentioned in those threads (horizontal or vertical wrinkles) or any mechanical issues whilc operating the screen.
> ... and may I ask how long have you owned the alr screen. thank!!


Just like Adrift said, I too don’t notice any horizontal creases on mine after leaving it up for a couple days. I’ve had it since May 2022 when I got the projector. Attaching a picture of the bare screen. Getting ready to watch some 3D blu-rays with the kids😀.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> I have the 120” Vividstorm ALR motorized screen. I can tell you that the ALR screen makes a HUGE difference during day or night viewing in impacting the contrast vs a white screen. Although in a completely dark room, the 150” white screen that I have looks fantastic as well. Here’s some pics of the ALR and 3500 in action during broad daylight with all my windows open. I can also tell you these pics don’t do the real image justice. The image is truly TV like with incredible detail and has replaced my 80” 3D LED TV. Sharing my settings for HDR content. I keep hearing movie setting is most accurate but I find it kinda too yellowish. These settings for me produced the best HDR results on my ALR screen in any lighting condition that I tested.
> 
> Image mode: HDR User
> Brightness: 54
> Contrast: 53
> Chroma: 57
> Tone: 0
> Sharpness: 12
> Light mode: High dynamic or Low dynamic (for 3D movies, I use Bright setting or you can even go higher by cranking the laser to level 10)
> Intelligent Light sensor: Off
> MEMC: Low or Off
> Low delay mode: Off
> Noise reduction: Off
> Dynamic contrast: On
> Gamma: Middle
> Color temperature: Standard
> MPEG: Off
> HDR: Auto
> 
> All pics taken during the day with window blinds open. Of course, at night the image looks even better with much higher contrast using it with an ALR screen.
> View attachment 3361965
> 
> View attachment 3361967
> 
> View attachment 3361966


 Just incorporated your settings, looks great!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

luisenriquereyes said:


> Support sent me link to the files and video instructions. It all worked and we watched our first 3d movie and it was excellent 😁 We have these 3D Active Shutter Glasses:
> 
> 
> 
> https://a.co/d/elyNuCp
> 
> 
> 
> Are these the best?
> 
> Or do you recommend a better one?


Xpand's are the best by far: email Vince Powers

Do Xpand x105-dlp-x1 exist?


----------



## paragmoon

Dgtr74 said:


> Just like Adrift said, I too don’t notice any horizontal creases on mine after leaving it up for a couple days. I’ve had it since May 2022 when I got the projector. Attaching a picture of the bare screen. Getting ready to watch some 3D blu-rays with the kids😀.
> View attachment 3362012


 thanks!! that is a nice setup.. all the movies neatly laid out 
now.. back to thinking if i shud cancel the amazon order and get the bundle...


----------



## paragmoon

adrift said:


> I got the bundle deal from Projectorscreen, and the 120" Vividstorm self-rising screen has exceeded my expectations. I had heard about the wrinkle issue when I first looked into these screens about a year or two ago, and the advice that you should allow it to stay up for a couple days to undo all wrinkles. But what very slight creases are visible on the screen with no projection, completely disappear with the projector on. I had completely forgotten about the wrinkle issue until I walked close up to the screen one day and examined it without the projector on.
> 
> Not only that, but this is replacing an XYScreens Pet Crystal screen that I had hanging in front of a window, and that screen allowed light to pass through. No light passes through this screen whatsoever.
> 
> Furthermore, I had expected the lift motion to be kind of juttery and shaky and I was of nervous about that because I placed it on a stand behind my entertainment center, but this thing raises and lowers as smooth as butter.
> 
> Really couldn't be happier with both the projector and the screen. I could be wrong but If memory serves, Vividstorm has largely resolved their issue with noticable screen wrinkles.


thanks for the detailed reply.


----------



## Dgtr74

paragmoon said:


> thanks!! that is an nice setup.. all the movies neatly laid out
> now.. back to thinking if i shud cancel the amazon order and get the bundle...


Thanks. I had some of the movies laid out for the kids to choose😀. Ended up watching Cirque du Soleil: Journey of man 3D..Wow! The 3D is amazing, definitely recommended for the whole family. 

Now, I still think that if you have the room to hang the 120” ALR screen and your seating area is not too far away, that would still be the safest and cleanest option. I’ve heard that some Vividstorm screens may have some warping (not perfectly flat) and you may need to do some keystone corrections. It’s not a big deal and may not be too noticeable but something to think about. Mine was slightly warped in the right corner area but I solved that by decreasing how high the screen goes up and manually straighten it out a bit. I don’t like to use keystone adjustment so it worked out for me.


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Xpand's are the best by far: email Vince Power's
> 
> Do Xpand x105-dlp-x1 exist?


I heard these were the best as well. I ordered 4 pairs of Xpands and it’s arriving this week.😀


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks. I had some of the movies laid out for the kids to choose😀. Ended up watching Cirque du Soleil: Journey of man 3D..Wow! The 3D is amazing, definitely recommended for the whole family.
> 
> Now, I still think that if you have the room to hang the 120” ALR screen and your seating area is not too far away, that would still be the safest and cleanest option. I’ve heard that some Vividstorm screens may have some warping (not perfectly flat) and you may need to do some keystone corrections. It’s not a big deal and may not be too noticeable but something to think about. Mine was slightly warped in the right corner area but I solved that by decreasing how high the screen goes up and manually straighten it out a bit. I don’t like to use keystone adjustment so it worked out for me.


I'm wondering if you can "fix" the warping by putting something under one side of the base, like Bicycle cards or something.


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> I'm wondering if you can "fix" the warping by putting something under one side of the base, like Bicycle cards or something.


I think it does slightly. I used a couple of thin plastic pieces on one side and also lowering the screen height helped.


----------



## toxtrepla

Dgtr74 said:


> I heard these were the best as well. I ordered 4 pairs of Xpands and it’s arriving this week.😀


Out of curiosity Which model did you get? I see the DLP as as well IR Versions of the x105. I also see a new x106 which looks great.


----------



## Dgtr74

toxtrepla said:


> Out of curiosity Which model did you get? I see the DLP as as well IR Versions of the x105. I also see a new x106 which looks great.


I ordered these: Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R
I didn’t know there was a x106 version and if it’s compatible.


----------



## adrift

toxtrepla said:


> Out of curiosity Which model did you get? I see the DLP as as well IR Versions of the x105. I also see a new x106 which looks great.


I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but as I understand it, there are 3 different types of glasses for home theater projectors, IR, RF, and DLP. The differences are explained here, but the main gist is that IR and RF require an emitter. 

The AWOL projectors use DLP (this was also true of my other UST projector, so I don't know if this is the default for USTs or what). 

Xpand has all three types of glasses. I'm not sure if they are cross-compatible though. That is, I'm not sure you can use RF or IR glasses with standard DLP projection.

The Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R are the set that often recommended for DLP (I can't remember where I read it, but someone who used to work in post-production said that it's the brand/model they use in the studio). Unlike Xpand's IR and RF 3D glasses, for whatever reason the basic DLP glasses aren't that easy to find online, and unfortunately their official website is kinda janky with all sorts of broken links. B&H sells the X105-DLP-X1-R on their website, but you can get them for a lot less contacting Xpand's sales rep, Vince Power, directly at [email protected] or calling him at 503-214-4676. Seems a bit shady, but he sends you an invoice and all of that jazz through Paypal. 

I just got my two pair today, and they are a LOT more comfortable and appear to be brighter and smoother than my Boblov's (as an aside, every time I see the name Boblov I think of Scott Baio's Bob Loblaw character on Arrested Development). 

For the record, I believe that AWOL themselves recommend the Boblov DLPs.


----------



## toxtrepla

adrift said:


> I'm not sure if this is helpful or not, but as I understand it, there are 3 different types of glasses for home theater projectors, IR, RF, and DLP. The differences are explained here, but the main gist is that IR and RF require an emitter.
> 
> The AWOL projectors use DLP (this was also true of my other UST projector, so I don't know if this is the default for USTs or what).
> 
> Xpand has all three types of glasses. I'm not sure if they are cross-compatible though. That is, I'm not sure you can use RF or IR glasses with standard DLP projection.
> 
> The Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R are the set that often recommended for DLP (I can't remember where I read it, but someone who used to work in post-production said that it's the brand/model they use in the studio). Unlike Xpand's IR and RF 3D glasses, for whatever reason the basic DLP glasses aren't that easy to find online, and unfortunately their official website is kinda janky with all sorts of broken links. B&H sells the X105-DLP-X1-R on their website, but you can get them for a lot less contacting Xpand's sales rep, Vince Power, directly at [email protected] or calling him at 503-214-4676. Seems a bit shady, but he sends you an invoice and all of that jazz through Paypal.
> 
> I just got my two pair today, and they are a LOT more comfortable and appear to be brighter and smoother than my Boblov's (as an aside, every time I see the name Boblov I think of Scott Baio's Bob Loblaw character on Arrested Development).
> 
> For the record, I believe that AWOL themselves recommend the Boblov DLPs.


Beyond helpful explanation here. Thanks so much. Gonna order the Xpand dlp sets today then. Vince messaged back very quickly. My Awol 3500 arrives next week so I’m prepping heavy this week!


----------



## Brajesh

adrift said:


> Just incorporated your settings, looks great!


Agree, just tried them, PQ looks great. Just lowered sharpness to 0 in my case. On Gamma, Bright was suggested for Formovie, but wondering what effect the different options have for AWOL.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Agree, just tried them, PQ looks great. Just lowered sharpness to 0 in my case. On Gamma, Bright was suggested for Formovie, but wondering what effect the different options have for AWOL.


That’s great! I’m still playing with chroma (53 to 57) and skin tone adjustments. But I got the colors to perfectly match this picture taken from my Apple Pro Display XDR. To me the picture on the AWOL looks even sharper/better than the Apple display…probably b/c this picture is so much bigger on the AWOL😀.


----------



## Dgtr74

For some reason, this uploaded picture (skin tone) is darker vs what I’m seeing on the Apple display and AWOL. It looks much better on those screens in person.


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> I'm wondering if you can "fix" the warping by putting something under one side of the base, like Bicycle cards or something.


I added another plastic spacer to the back right side feet of my Vividstorm and adjusted the four feet of the projector and the alignment is “perfect” now…without any keystone adjustment. I believe all the warping issues reported with the 120“ screen has to do with the uneven surfaces that the Vividstorm screen sits on. With this solution, I can wholeheartedly recommend the Vividstorm option to anyone that wants a motorized screen. It’s awesome and very reliable.


----------



## Brajesh

Re-watched 'Avatar' in its entirety last night, and wow, just amazing! I've seen it in the theater (IMAX 3D) when it first came out & on various 3D TVs & projectors, but it all felt so new, immersive again watching it on AWOL 3500. Sharp, hyper-realistic. Had family over for Thanksgiving & everyone loved it.

Bought tickets already for IMAX 3D showing of 'Avatar: The Way of Water' on 12/17. Can't wait, and for it (hopefully) on Blu-ray 3D to experience again at home. Time for a 3D comeback !


----------



## paragmoon

paragmoon said:


> thanks!! that is a nice setup.. all the movies neatly laid out
> now.. back to thinking if i shud cancel the amazon order and get the bundle...


hi guys... cancelled my projector only amazon order and picked up the 3500+120" floor screen bundle from awol site


----------



## Dgtr74

paragmoon said:


> hi guys... cancelled my projector only amazon order and picked up the 3500+120" floor screen bundle from awol site


Great decision! I have had this projector/screen combo for 7 months now and I’m still blown away by the image quality every time I turn it on. Once you have your picture settings dialed in to your liking, it’s just incredible. I like a punchy, colorful, bright but accurate image that will make the image pop no matter the lighting condition and no matter the content, HDR or SDR. Just watched RRR in 4K UHD, English dubbed. Sitting about 5 feet from the screen, the image quality and immersion is just…WOW!! Home family entertainment at its best.


----------



## paragmoon

Dgtr74 said:


> Great decision! I have had this projector/screen combo for 7 months now and I’m still blown away by the image quality every time I turn it on. Once you have your picture settings dialed in to your liking, it’s just incredible. I like a punchy, colorful, bright but accurate image that will make the image pop no matter the lighting condition and no matter the content, HDR or SDR. Just watched RRR in 4K UHD, English dubbed. Sitting about 5 feet from the screen, the image quality and immersion is just…WOW!! Home family entertainment at its best.


so i have 2 movies to watch once the projector is setup...Avatar and RRR!!


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Re-watched 'Avatar' in its entirety last night, and wow, just amazing! I've seen it in the theater (IMAX 3D) when it first came out & on various 3D TVs & projectors, but it all felt so new, immersive again watching it on AWOL 3500. Sharp, hyper-realistic. Had family over for Thanksgiving & everyone loved it.
> 
> Bought tickets already for IMAX 3D showing of 'Avatar: The Way of Water' on 12/17. Can't wait, and for it (hopefully) on Blu-ray 3D to experience again at home. Time for a 3D comeback !


You had the same reaction I had after watching Avatar 3D..lol. I watched it last week using the generic DLP 3D glasses from Amazon. Getting my 4 pairs of Xpand 3D glasses tomorrow that I ordered on Friday. Very quick shipping. Can’t imagine the 3D image being better than what I witnessed. Let’s see…😀


----------



## Lion DD

Monkd said:


> Anyone have input on AWOL cinematic ALR vs the VIVIDSTORM? I am torn between the bundles. Bundles
> I know a lot of people have experience on vividstorm but don't know anything about their Cinematic ALR.


I have been paying attention to it for a long time, and I have read a lot of user feedback on pictures. Finally, I bought a set (awol3500+vividstorm spro) by taking advantage of their Black Friday or free price. The screen has arrived, and the projector is still on the way. I am looking forward to it ! ! The screen looks very advanced and does not falter, I think it is worth buying!


----------



## Lion DD

paragmoon said:


> thanks!! that is a nice setup.. all the movies neatly laid out
> now.. back to thinking if i shud cancel the amazon order and get the bundle...


The bundle package is projector + screen is only a little more expensive than the projector alone, which is definitely more cost-effective than buying the two products separately


----------



## arsenalfc89

AWOL is working on a new feature called Enhanced Black Level and are looking for beta testers. They just posted this information on Facebook.


----------



## Brajesh

Wish they had their own forum or participated here. Facebook kinda sucks for community conversations.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> You had the same reaction I had after watching Avatar 3D..lol. I watched it last week using the generic DLP 3D glasses from Amazon. Getting my 4 pairs of Xpand 3D glasses tomorrow that I ordered on Friday. Very quick shipping. Can’t imagine the 3D image being better than what I witnessed. Let’s see…😀


Going back and forth between the Boblov's and the Xpand glasses, the Xpand's are maybe only slightly brighter than the Boblov's, but they feel a lot more comfortable and substantial. Only downside to the Xpand's that I've experienced is that I don't think they can invert the shutter on the fly like my other 3D glasses. Normally this isn't a problem as you can select left/right preference in the 3D settings on the 3500, but I was watching Piranha 3D the other night, and changing the preference didn't seem to make much of a difference. Had to watch the film with the Boblov's. I don't think this will be an issue with most 3D films, however.


----------



## adrift

Lion DD said:


> The bundle package is projector + screen is only a little more expensive than the projector alone, which is definitely more cost-effective than buying the two products separately


I got a very similar deal on ProjectorScreen's website. Decided to go with them as they often post good tech info on A/V forums here and on Reddit, and it was nice to know that I could get a hold of someone immediately if I had questions (though I hear that AWOL's customer services is also very good).


----------



## Verworren

Just picked up the AWOL Black Friday (pj+screen) deal after creeping through what feels like 300 pages of posts on the AWOL-3500. I appreciate all of your contributions to this forum!

Coming from an Optoma UHD-65 (nearly impossible to watch during the day), so looking forward to the difference.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> AWOL is working on a new feature called Enhanced Black Level and are looking for beta testers. They just posted this information on Facebook.


From Facebook:

"Hello Everyone!

We have exciting news to share with you! We have developed a new feature - Enhanced Black Level for the LTV-3500 - and we are looking for 10 volunteers to test out the Beta Version.

It will give more depth to your image by smoothly adjusting the laser output to double the current contrast ratio to achieve a stunning high contrast ratio of at least 2000:1. You can turn on the Laser Dynamic setting to automatically optimize the image luminance, which improves the image contrast based on the brightness of the content you project. Bright scenes appear crisp and clear while dark scenes remain detailed with deep blacks and exceptional light and shade detail. We plan to provide the free update sometime in December 2022. Currently, we are looking for beta testers.

If you are interested in being a beta tester and you are an LTV-3500 user already, please email [email protected]. We are only accepting 10 volunteers before our official release. As a beta tester, you will be required to share your feedback with us.

Upgrading your device to the the beta version is not very user friendly as it needs to be installed by downloading the upgrade files onto a USB 32Fat format, then plugging the USB into the device.

Thanks in advance!"


----------



## toxtrepla

arsenalfc89 said:


> AWOL is working on a new feature called Enhanced Black Level and are looking for beta testers. They just posted this information on Facebook.


For those curious…. Awesome news too.


----------



## Brajesh

"at least 2000:1" sounds great. E-mailed for the beta, but I assume they've already gotten many requests. If AWOL succeeds on this and adding DV, they'll have a truly unbeatable UST king with the 3500.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

toxtrepla said:


> For those curious…. Awesome news too.


Do you think this Enhanced Black Level will also be available for the LTV-2500?


----------



## Marc D Carra

luisenriquereyes said:


> Do you think this Enhanced Black Level will also be available for the LTV-2500?


They specifically say LTV-3500. If the feature was going to be available on the LTV-2500, I think they would have also included it in the Beta test. Maybe the laser power difference of the two units allows for more control over the lasers in the LTV-3500?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> "at least 2000:1" sounds great. E-mailed for the beta, but I assume they've already gotten many requests. If AWOL succeeds on this and adding DV, they'll have a truly unbeatable UST king with the 3500.


I'm assuming this is a better version of High and Low Dynamic which is already achieved by dimming the laser, but the 2000:1 contest ratio is throwing me off; seems like a low estimate.

Perhaps it's Dynamic Contrast in concert with Laser Dimming hmmm...

Either way I'm stoked and intrigued. I emailed as well. Let's see what they have in store for us.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

adrift said:


> Going back and forth between the Boblov's and the Xpand glasses, the Xpand's are maybe only slightly brighter than the Boblov's, but they feel a lot more comfortable and substantial. Only downside to the Xpand's that I've experienced is that I don't think they can invert the shutter on the fly like my other 3D glasses. Normally this isn't a problem as you can select left/right preference in the 3D settings on the 3500, but I was watching Piranha 3D the other night, and changing the preference didn't seem to make much of a difference. Had to watch the film with the Boblov's. I don't think this will be an issue with most 3D films, however.


It's a bug with AWOL. If L/R doesn't look right, choose the other and then switch it back. This is similar to the bug in 3D formats where you have to select something different and then go back to the format your 3D content is in.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Marc D Carra said:


> They specifically say LTV-3500. If the feature was going to be available on the LTV-2500, I think they would have also included it in the Beta test. Maybe the laser power difference of the two units allows for more control over the lasers in the LTV-3500?


Good point Marc! I think this makes the most sense as AWOL doesn't seem like the type to arbitrarily leave the 2500 out of all the fun, unless there was a technical reason.

Though it's also possible that it's easier to implement on the 3500 and once they've gotten the kinks worked out will give the 2500 a try.

That said it could also be a financial reason relating to the number of sales each has and wanting to put their development dollar where it's more profitable.

I hope it makes it's way to the 2500 if all goes well with the 3500 and it's technically possible.


----------



## Marc D Carra

One of the technical reviewers, @Dave Harper said the differences between the 2500 and 3500 were more than just brightness, but didn't go into specifics. He also mentioned in his review of the 3500, that if Awolvision could find a way to increase the contrast via firmware, it would be one of the best projectors under $25,000, regardless of throw distance. Looks like Awolvision may have found a way. Exciting stuff!


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> Going back and forth between the Boblov's and the Xpand glasses, the Xpand's are maybe only slightly brighter than the Boblov's, but they feel a lot more comfortable and substantial. Only downside to the Xpand's that I've experienced is that I don't think they can invert the shutter on the fly like my other 3D glasses. Normally this isn't a problem as you can select left/right preference in the 3D settings on the 3500, but I was watching Piranha 3D the other night, and changing the preference didn't seem to make much of a difference. Had to watch the film with the Boblov's. I don't think this will be an issue with most 3D films, however.


Just watched Tron 3D for the first time and with the Xpand 3D glasses that I received. All I can say is…WOW!! 10x better than the generic one’s I bought on Amazon. It fits WAY BETTER and you can see everything peripherally without the distraction of the glass frames and no light leak from the sides.

With the generic 3D glasses, occasionally the 3D image gets reversed if I look away from the screen for a while and so I have to click the power bottom on the glasses a couple times to get back the correct 3D image. The Xpands kept the 3D image correctly locked throughout the whole movie. Incredible 3D glasses. Money well spent!

There is no better 3D experience than watching on the AWOL 3500 on a huge 120” or even 150” using the Xpand 3D glasses. You need massive projector brightness horsepower to deliver the proper 3D image so that the picture is bright and vibrant. Therefore, the BEST setting I found is using VIVID mode with the laser set to USER at level 10.

Sharing some pictures I took through the lense. No pictures will do the actual image quality justice but you can get an idea. Very bright image, great contrast, with rock solid 3D effect. The experience was fantastic with the Vividstorm 120” 0.6 gain screen and I’d say it’ even better with the 150” 1.1 gain white screen that I’m using here in complete darkness. Brighter and bigger image and sitting about 8 feet from the screen created that perfect immersion and IMAX cinema experience at home. The Xpand 3D glasses made a huge difference. If more people had the opportunity to experience this at home, 3D would definitely make a comeback for sure! Too addicting!😀


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> Just watched Tron 3D for the first time and with the Xpand 3D glasses that I received. All I can say is…WOW!! 10x better than the generic one’s I bought on Amazon. It fits WAY BETTER and you can see everything peripherally without the distraction of the glass frames and no light leak from the sides.
> 
> With the generic 3D glasses, occasionally the 3D image gets reversed if I look away from the screen for a while and so I have to click the power bottom on the glasses a couple times to get back the correct 3D image. The Xpands kept the 3D image correctly locked throughout the whole movie. Incredible 3D glasses. Money well spent!
> 
> There is no better 3D experience than watching on the AWOL 3500 on a huge 120” or even 150” using the Xpand 3D glasses. You need massive projector brightness horsepower to deliver the proper 3D image so that the picture is bright and vibrant. Therefore, the BEST setting I found is using VIVID mode with the laser set to USER at level 10.
> 
> Sharing some pictures I took through the lense. No pictures will do the actual image quality justice but you can get an idea. Very bright image, great contrast, with rock solid 3D effect. The experience was fantastic with the Vividstorm 120” 0.6 gain screen and I’d say it’ even better with the 150” 1.1 gain white screen that I’m using here in complete darkness. Brighter and bigger image and sitting about 8 feet from the screen created that perfect immersion and IMAX cinema experience at home. The Xpand 3D glasses made a huge difference. If more people had the opportunity to experience this at home, 3D would definitely make a comeback for sure! Too addicting!😀
> 
> View attachment 3363372
> 
> View attachment 3363377
> 
> View attachment 3363375
> 
> View attachment 3363376
> 
> View attachment 3363373
> 
> View attachment 3363374


That's outstanding! Looks as good if not better than my old 2016 LG 65E6P 3D OLED!


----------



## Brajesh

Even le$$ at projectorscreen.com


----------



## clipghost

toxtrepla said:


> For those curious…. Awesome news too.
> 
> View attachment 3363110


God dammit. I was set on Formovie but I think this will push me over the edge.


----------



## skc_18

Torn between formovie and AWOL. Have been big fan of 3D but with watching on tv screens less than 75 inch did not feel the effect I saw in theatres. But hoping 120 inch it would be different
Planning to order both AWOL (awol website)and Formovie ( projector screen)and return the one I don’t like. Can any one here share Their experience if they did this and how much do we have to pay in terms of restocking fee or shipping charges etc.


----------



## Brajesh

"Big fan of 3D" = AWOL 3500 . Best 3D I've ever experienced at home, and I've owned 3D TVs (when they were a thing) and several 3D projectors (3LCD & DLP from Epson, BenQ, Optoma, Xiaomi, Wemax, etc.).


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> From Facebook:
> 
> "Hello Everyone!
> 
> We have exciting news to share with you! We have developed a new feature - Enhanced Black Level for the LTV-3500 - and we are looking for 10 volunteers to test out the Beta Version.
> 
> It will give more depth to your image by smoothly adjusting the laser output to double the current contrast ratio to achieve a stunning high contrast ratio of at least 2000:1. You can turn on the Laser Dynamic setting to automatically optimize the image luminance, which improves the image contrast based on the brightness of the content you project. Bright scenes appear crisp and clear while dark scenes remain detailed with deep blacks and exceptional light and shade detail. We plan to provide the free update sometime in December 2022. Currently, we are looking for beta testers.
> 
> If you are interested in being a beta tester and you are an LTV-3500 user already, please email [email protected]. We are only accepting 10 volunteers before our official release. As a beta tester, you will be required to share your feedback with us.
> 
> Upgrading your device to the the beta version is not very user friendly as it needs to be installed by downloading the upgrade files onto a USB 32Fat format, then plugging the USB into the device.
> 
> Thanks in advance!"


We will be testing this out very shortly; they sent us the required hardware to update with expected delivery on Monday.


----------



## ProjectionHead

skc_18 said:


> Torn between formovie and AWOL. Have been big fan of 3D but with watching on tv screens less than 75 inch did not feel the effect I saw in theatres. But hoping 120 inch it would be different
> Planning to order both AWOL (awol website)and Formovie ( projector screen)and return the one I don’t like. Can any one here share Their experience if they did this and how much do we have to pay in terms of restocking fee or shipping charges etc.


There is a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on the Awol 3500 at ProjectorScreen.com- no restocking fees on that model in that period.


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> We will be testing this out very shortly; they sent us the required hardware to update with expected delivery on Monday.


I assume this is only for the beta, with the general public update being just OTA?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Even le$$ at projectorscreen.com


Everyone should always expect to get a better deal (and service) than buying direct from manufacturer or the big book store; if it’s not posted at a lower price, just email/call us.


----------



## skc_18

ProjectionHead said:


> There is a 30 day satisfaction guarantee on the Awol 3500 at ProjectorScreen.com- no restocking fees on that model in that period.


Thanks for the reply. Does the same apply for For-movie too?



ProjectionHead said:


> Everyone should always expect to get a better deal (and service) than buying direct from manufacturer or the big book store; if it’s not posted at a lower price, just email/call us.


Awol 3500 in their website has a great bundle deal (vividstorm + awol 3500) , is that something available in projector-screen too? I remember seeing some messages saying they got same deal on projectorscreen.com too but I could not see on the website.


----------



## ProjectionHead

skc_18 said:


> Thanks for the reply. Does the same apply for For-movie too?
> 
> 
> Awol 3500 in their website has a great bundle deal (vividstorm + awol 3500) , is that something available in projector-screen too? I remember seeing some messages saying they got same deal on projectorscreen.com too but I could not see on the website.


We don’t have same deal published as it is only temporary, but we will do and possibly beat it.
Shoot me an email and we can chat about that, Formovie and anything else.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ProjectionHead said:


> Everyone should always expect to get a better deal (and service) than buying direct from manufacturer or the big book store; if it’s not posted at a lower price, just email/call us.


Nice Brian! Great to see you beating out the rest while providing a wealth of knowledge and service for every kind of customer. Low price isn't everything, but when you can have both it's a no brainer!


----------



## tweaknews

ProjectionHead said:


> Wir haben denselben Deal nicht veröffentlicht, da er nur vorübergehend ist, aber wir werden ihn tun und möglicherweise übertreffen.
> Schicken Sie mir eine E-Mail und wir können darüber, Formovie und alles andere reden.


E- Mail an [email protected] gesendet, aber leider ist nichts passiert 🥺


----------



## ProjectionHead

tweaknews said:


> E- Mail an [email protected] gesendet, aber leider ist nichts passiert 🥺


I am not sure what you said (I only speak English), but we do not export certain products outside of the USA


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> I assume this is only for the beta, with the general public update being just OTA?


That I do not know. I can’t say why they need to send us a piece of hardware, but that’s what they told us.


----------



## adrift

ProjectionHead said:


> I am not sure what you said (I only speak English), but we do not export certain products outside of the USA


My German isn't very good, but I believe he's saying that he sent an email but unfortunately nothing came to pass/nothing happened.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> That I do not know. I can’t say why they need to send us a piece of hardware, but that’s what they told us.


It’s a special remote that’s needed to access the service menu of the projector.


----------



## kmakjop

I a searching the internet high and low to help me with this decision. I am buying either the Formovie or AWOL 3500 today and I NEED help or guidance on this decision. 

I read somewhere that Formovie is planning a 3D update soon, is there any confirmation on this?

I really don't know which one to go with, but I heard the image on the the Formovie is better.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> It’s a special remote that’s needed to access the service menu of the projector.


Yeah the remote is only needed to upgrade the MCU for those that received an earlier model.


----------



## Brajesh

kmakjop said:


> I a searching the internet high and low to help me with this decision. I am buying either the Formovie or AWOL 3500 today and I NEED help or guidance on this decision.
> 
> I read somewhere that Formovie is planning a 3D update soon, is there any confirmation on this?
> 
> I really don't know which one to go with, but I heard the image on the the Formovie is better.


There's no indication they're adding 3D. Image on Formovie is better if you mean better blacks. Image on AWOL is better if you mean sharper & brighter. But, on blacks, AWOL has announced they're pushing a software update next month for "Enhanced Black Level for the LTV-3500". And, DV is supposed to be coming.


----------



## kmakjop

Brajesh said:


> There's no indication they're adding 3D. Image on Formovie is better if you mean better blacks. Image on AWOL is better if you mean sharper & brighter. But, on blacks, AWOL has announced they're pushing a software update next month for "Enhanced Black Level for the LTV-3500". And, DV is supposed to be coming.



Question Brejesh, is the Optoma D2 an option?


----------



## Brajesh

Don't have a personal experience w/any Optoma UST. While D2 has 3D, it lacks DV (or even HDR10+). Even w/its current sale price of $2K, Philips Screeneo U5 seems like a better deal for $1700 w/DV & 3D supported. Suggest reading @kraine's reviews for D2 here & Philips here. Scroll down for English.

Xiaomi/Fengmi can't be beat for blacks, contrast & DV. AWOL 3500 can't be beat for 3D, brightness, sharpness, HDR10+ (& soon better blacks & DV hopefully).


----------



## JagNL

Brajesh said:


> (& soon better blacks & DV hopefully).


Is there something coming for the AWOL 3500 that is supposed to improve black levels?


----------



## Brajesh

Those of you w/Vividstorm floor-risign screens, I need some help aligning my projector to the screen. Spent over an hour, adjusting all 4 feet, adjusting physical position, adding spacers at various spots, and just can't seem to align properly. Any ideas? _(Over-brightened the screenshot below to show you guys what I'm getting)_











JagNL said:


> Is there something coming for the AWOL 3500 that is supposed to improve black levels?


This is what we're waiting to find out .


----------



## toxtrepla

JagNL said:


> Is there something coming for the AWOL 3500 that is supposed to improve black levels?


Read back a page or so. They announced a new beta with roughly double the contrast. Exciting times.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Those of you w/Vividstorm floor-risign screens, I need some help aligning my projector to the screen. Spent over an hour, adjusting all 4 feet, adjusting physical position, adding spacers at various spots, and just can't seem to align properly. Any ideas? _(Over-brightened the screenshot below to show you guys what I'm getting)_
> View attachment 3363846
> 
> 
> 
> This is what we're waiting to find out .


They said to expect 2,000:1+ which almost doubles the contrast of what they have now. Not quite the 3,300:1+ that the Formovie has, but certainly expecting it to be a big improvement over the existing contrast ratio.
I'm looking forward to testing it out and having @Dave Harper do an updated review.


----------



## ProjectionHead

adrift said:


> My German isn't very good, but I believe he's saying that he sent an email but unfortunately nothing came to pass/nothing happened.


If it wasn't in English, we probably couldn't read it ...lol

@tweaknews - shoot me the message directly to the address in my signature and I'll fwd to the right department.


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> Just watched Tron 3D for the first time and with the Xpand 3D glasses that I received. All I can say is…WOW!! 10x better than the generic one’s I bought on Amazon. It fits WAY BETTER and you can see everything peripherally without the distraction of the glass frames and no light leak from the sides.
> 
> With the generic 3D glasses, occasionally the 3D image gets reversed if I look away from the screen for a while and so I have to click the power bottom on the glasses a couple times to get back the correct 3D image. The Xpands kept the 3D image correctly locked throughout the whole movie. Incredible 3D glasses. Money well spent!
> 
> There is no better 3D experience than watching on the AWOL 3500 on a huge 120” or even 150” using the Xpand 3D glasses. You need massive projector brightness horsepower to deliver the proper 3D image so that the picture is bright and vibrant. Therefore, the BEST setting I found is using VIVID mode with the laser set to USER at level 10.
> 
> Sharing some pictures I took through the lense. No pictures will do the actual image quality justice but you can get an idea. Very bright image, great contrast, with rock solid 3D effect. The experience was fantastic with the Vividstorm 120” 0.6 gain screen and I’d say it’ even better with the 150” 1.1 gain white screen that I’m using here in complete darkness. Brighter and bigger image and sitting about 8 feet from the screen created that perfect immersion and IMAX cinema experience at home. The Xpand 3D glasses made a huge difference. If more people had the opportunity to experience this at home, 3D would definitely make a comeback for sure! Too addicting!😀
> 
> View attachment 3363372
> 
> View attachment 3363377
> 
> View attachment 3363375
> 
> View attachment 3363376
> 
> View attachment 3363373
> 
> View attachment 3363374


Seeing as you took the pictures trough the 3D glasses, that looks absolutely amazing. Bright and colorful.
Can I ask what is that 150” 1.1 screen you mentioned? Any difference in crosstalk between the 120” and the 150”?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Those of you w/Vividstorm floor-risign screens, I need some help aligning my projector to the screen. Spent over an hour, adjusting all 4 feet, adjusting physical position, adding spacers at various spots, and just can't seem to align properly. Any ideas? _(Over-brightened the screenshot below to show you guys what I'm getting)_
> View attachment 3363846
> 
> 
> 
> This is what we're waiting to find out .


Have you checked if your screen is perfectly straight when you look on the side view with it fully up? Just make sure there are no waves. That was my issue and once I got it to be perfectly flat and straight with no waves or warping then it’s just a matter of playing with the projector placement and adjusting the 4 feet to get a properly aligned image.


----------



## Brajesh

How'd you get the screen to be perfectly straight/flat? Maybe I should've gone w/a 120" fixed vs. Vividstorm.


----------



## Dgtr74

Nuno Campos said:


> Seeing as you took the pictures trough the 3D glasses, that looks absolutely amazing. Bright and colorful.
> Can I ask what is that 150” 1.1 screen you mentioned? Any difference in crosstalk between the 120” and the 150”?


The 150” white screen is just a portable PVC screen with 1.1 gain. It’s not on Amazon anymore but there are other manufacturers. I used it originally with my Epson 5050UB and briefly with the Epson 6050 UB. I got rid of the Epson after I got the AWOL but still kept the 150” screen. It sits right behind by Vividstorm. No difference in crosstalk or 3D image quality b/t the white screen and Vividstorm in a completely dark room. Both look amazing.


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> The 150” white screen is just a portable PVC screen with 1.1 gain. It’s not on Amazon anymore but there are other manufacturers. I used it originally with my Epson 5050UB and briefly with the Epson 6050 UB. I got rid of the Epson after I got the AWOL but still kept the 150” screen. It sits right behind by Vividstorm. No difference in crosstalk or 3D image quality b/t the white screen and Vividstorm in a completely dark room. Both look amazing.


I’ll say it again. That is the most amazing, vibrant and colorful 3D image I have ever seen, and I still cannot believe that those pictures are trough the 3D glasses. 
The Awol 3500 and those XpanD dlp glasses are clearly a winning combo.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> How'd you get the screen to be perfectly straight/flat? Maybe I should've gone w/a 120" fixed vs. Vividstorm.


I found out the surface that my Vividstorm sits on is not perfectly leveled and it caused the screen to not be perfectly straight when it was fully raised. The Vividstorm is very heavy. I fixed that by shortening how high the Vividstorm screen goes up and placed plastic spacers on the one side that looked warped. I kept playing with it until it was perfectly straight when it was fully raised looking at it from the side.


----------



## skc_18

ProjectionHead said:


> If it wasn't in English, we probably couldn't read it ...lol
> 
> @tweaknews - shoot me the message directly to the address in my signature and I'll fwd to the right department.


I sent email yesterday to your address and did not get response either. I just resent the email.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> I found out the surface that my Vividstorm sits on is not perfectly leveled and it caused the screen to not be perfectly straight when it was fully raised. The Vividstorm is very heavy. I fixed that by shortening how high the Vividstorm screen goes up and placed plastic spacers on the one side that looked warped. I kept playing with it until it was perfectly straight when it was fully raised looking at it from the side.


This was how my screen was when I first set it up. You can see it’s slightly warped. No matter what I did with the projector it will not align until I fixed the warping.


----------



## clipghost

Dgtr74 said:


> This was how my screen was when I first set it up. You can see it’s slightly warped. No matter what I did with the projector it will not align until I fixed the warping.
> 
> View attachment 3363965
> 
> View attachment 3363966


Link to what plastic spacers/feet you used? Any better pictures of the setup?


----------



## ProjectionHead

skc_18 said:


> I sent email yesterday to your address and did not get response either. I just resent the email.


Gotcha and replied. 
Yesterday was thanksgiving and I want working and this morning went right into Black Friday, so delayed in getting back to all my emails, messages, etc.


----------



## Dgtr74

clipghost said:


> Link to what plastic spacers/feet you used? Any better pictures of the setup?


I just used some spare plastic pieces/dividers from my adjustable standing desk converter riser that I bought originally to put the AWOL on. Now, I have a cabinet setup. Any solid flat piece should do though. After I did that and lowered the height of the Vividstorm, it’s perfectly straight from the side view like the image here. Now as you can see the corners pretty much perfectly aligned with the screen. I have a dual screen setup. I mostly use the Vividstorm for day and nighttime viewing but can also lower it and use the bigger white screen with all the lights off to watch 4K or 3D content. Wife likes to watch her horror and thriller movies on the bigger screen…lol. Actually, the AWOL is so bright that I can still watch on this bigger screen even with some ambient lights on, image still looks good, it just won’t be as contrasty as the Vividstorm with all the lights. I use the Vividstorm/AWOL combo during the day as my TV replacement.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Nuno Campos said:


> I’ll say it again. That is the most amazing, vibrant and colorful 3D image I have ever seen, and I still cannot believe that those pictures are trough the 3D glasses.
> The Awol 3500 and those XpanD dlp glasses are clearly a winning combo.


Here's the thing that's really going to wow you: it's brighter and more vivid in person than those pictures!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Don't have a personal experience w/any Optoma UST. While D2 has 3D, it lacks DV (or even HDR10+). Even w/its current sale price of $2K, Philips Screeneo U5 seems like a better deal for $1700 w/DV & 3D supported. Suggest reading @kraine's reviews for D2 here & Philips here. Scroll down for English.
> 
> Xiaomi/Fengmi can't be beat for blacks, contrast & DV. AWOL 3500 can't be beat for 3D, brightness, sharpness, HDR10+ (& soon better blacks & DV hopefully).


I had the P2 which is basically the same as the D2. I'd just get the 2019 Fengmi or A300 if I wanted a cheap single laser with 3D. Both have the 3000+:1 contrast ratio/blacks. Optoma's 3000 lumens calibrates down to 2200 lumens anyway.


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Here's the thing that's really going to wow you: it's brighter and more vivid in person than those pictures!


Agreed…and the colors are better in person too. Watched Pacific Rim Uprising 3D last night. For this particular blu-ray, I struggled initially to get a 3D lock on either glasses. However, I could not get the Boblov 3D image to stay connected and it kept flickering back and forth (in and out of 3D) and was darker. It was unwatchable. Once the Xpand connected, it locked its 3D image and kept it for the entire movie and was noticeably brighter too. Another WIN for the Xpand 3D glasses vs generic Boblov’s. If you’re seriously into 3D, definitely invest in getting a couple pairs. 

Here’s a few more through the lense pics comparison of the Vividstorm vs the 150” white screen using the Xpand 3D glasses. Of course, the picture looks way better in person and with more accurate colors. There’s not much difference in complete darkness between the 2 screens besides the size difference. However, the only way to watch 3D during the day is to use the Vividstorm and the picture looks amazing as well.


----------



## Brajesh

Thanks @Dgtr74, those photos are very helpful. Didn't realize you ended up with spacers on the rear of the screen itself to get it flat. Mine has the exact issue as yours, except w/the triangular gap on the left-bottom.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Are there any Canadians who ordered directly from Awolvision? If so were you charged additional taxes/import fees when your order arrived? I messaged Awolvision but haven't received a reply.


----------



## Brajesh

It appears HDMI1 (Fire Stick pocket) doesn't have eARC? Anyone able to get audio from Fire Stick connected to HDMI1 on their AVR?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> It appears HDMI1 (Fire Stick pocket) doesn't have eARC? Anyone able to get audio from Fire Stick connected to HDMI1 on their AVR?


Yep, it works fine for me. I have a Nakamichi Ultra 9.2.4 sound system. I have the AWOL source set on HDMI 1 and the Nakamichi remote set to Home (ARC).


----------



## Brajesh

Hmm, think my issue may be HDFury, which all my source devices are connected to w/HDMI Audio going to my AVR.


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> Hmm, think my issue may be HDFury, which all my source devices are connected to w/HDMI Audio going to my AVR.


No receiver?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Hmm, think my issue may be HDFury, which all my source devices are connected to w/HDMI Audio going to my AVR.


That could very well be it. Along with the Fire Stick, I also have my Zidoo z9x, Shield TV pro, and my Sony X700 3D blu-ray player connected and no issues with sound. There’s some delays in the audio switching over though when I switch my source. But I think that could be b/c of my Nakamichi sound bar.


----------



## Marc D Carra

@Dgtr74, How does a 2D image of the 3500 look on your 150" 1.1 gain white screen in a dark room? I'm on the verge of ordering tonight but the Vividstorm screen is going to end up costing me another $1800 Canadian. I already have an Elite screens Aeon 1.1 128" screen mounted in my completely dark home theater. Would the Vividstorm make any difference in a dark room? I've always found a white screen has more pop if you have complete darkness. Could you maybe post a couple pics on your white screen in darkness? I have 4 hrs to go before the sale ends! Much appreciate your help!


----------



## Dgtr74

Marc D Carra said:


> @Dgtr74, How does a 2D image of the 3500 look on your 150" 1.1 gain white screen in a dark room? I'm on the verge of ordering tonight but the Vividstorm screen is going to end up costing me another $1800 Canadian. I already have an Elite screens Aeon 1.1 128" screen mounted in my completely dark home theater. Would the Vividstorm make any difference in a dark room? I've always found a white screen has more pop if you have complete darkness. Could you maybe post a couple pics on your white screen in darkness? I have 4 hrs to go before the sale ends! Much appreciate your help!


I’m not able to access my setup right now but maybe can share some pics later tonight. I can tell you that in a completely dark room, the 2D picture looks great, almost no difference from an ALR screen. B/c of the lower gain of the Vividstorm, the ALR image may look a bit more contrasty but honestly I think you will be very happy with the image on your Elite screen coming from the 3500. With 3D, the image will be fantastic with the added boost in brightness. Also, with the enhanced black level that AWOL Vision is working on, the image will look even better on your Elite.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> I’m not able to access my setup right now but maybe can share some pics later tonight. I can tell you that in a completely dark room, the 2D picture looks great, almost no difference from an ALR screen. B/c of the lower gain of the Vividstorm, the ALR image may look a bit more contrasty but honestly I think you will be very happy with the image on your Elite screen coming from the 3500. With 3D, the image will be fantastic with the added boost in brightness. Also, with the enhanced black level that AWOL Vision is working on, the image will look even better on your Elite.


Thanks for your detailed reply! I definitely prefer brightness and pop over black levels. I've owned native 4K JVC projectors with great blacks but they simply were not bright enough for my liking, especially in 3D, and an Epson LS12000 laser that was bright enough (2800 lumens) but had no 3D. I miss 3D and with over 500 3D blurays in my collection, it's become a necessity for me. So the Awolvision 3500 should suit my needs just fine, especially with the new firmware coming.


----------



## Dgtr74

Marc D Carra said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply! I definitely prefer brightness and pop over black levels. I've owned native 4K JVC projectors with great blacks but they simply were not bright enough for my liking, especially in 3D, and an Epson LS12000 laser that was bright enough (2800 lumens) but had no 3D. I miss 3D and with over 500 3D blurays in my collection, it's become a necessity for me. So the Awolvision 3500 should suit my needs just fine, especially with the new firmware coming.


Here you go. Some pictures with the 150” 1.1 white screen. Again, these phone pictures do NOT do the actual image justice. My phone can’t capture all of the colors. It’s much more vibrant and colorful in real life. This is also with my kitchen lights on since the kids are eating. The 3500 really throws a beautiful and sharp image whether on an ALR screen or not. When the lights are completely off…WOW.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> Here you go. Some pictures with the 150” 1.1 white screen. Again, these phone pictures do NOT do the actual image justice. My phone can’t capture all of the colors. It’s much more vibrant and colorful in real life. This is also with my kitchen lights on since the kids are eating. The 3500 really throws a beautiful and sharp image whether on an ALR screen or not. When the lights are completely off…WOW.


Those pics look beautiful! Thanks so much for taking the time to post them. I tried ordering from their site tonight but kept getting an error. I called my credit card company and I have enough room for four 3500 projectors yet I keep getting an error:









I tried 4 or 5 times then gave up. My card is fine because I ordered some stuff from Best Buy just now and it worked fine. Awol better honor the sale price once the issue is resolved.


----------



## jeff9n

Marc D Carra said:


> @Dgtr74, How does a 2D image of the 3500 look on your 150" 1.1 gain white screen in a dark room? I'm on the verge of ordering tonight but the Vividstorm screen is going to end up costing me another $1800 Canadian. I already have an Elite screens Aeon 1.1 128" screen mounted in my completely dark home theater. Would the Vividstorm make any difference in a dark room? I've always found a white screen has more pop if you have complete darkness. Could you maybe post a couple pics on your white screen in darkness? I have 4 hrs to go before the sale ends! Much appreciate your help!





















I have a 165-in Silver Ticket 1.1 Gain White that is paired with Fengmi T1. In a dark room, your 128in screen should look awesome with 3500.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Marc D Carra said:


> Those pics look beautiful! Thanks so much for taking the time to post them. I tried ordering from their site tonight but kept getting an error. I called my credit card company and I have enough room for four 3500 projectors yet I keep getting an error:
> View attachment 3364440
> 
> 
> I tried 4 or 5 times then gave up. My card is fine because I ordered some stuff from Best Buy just now and it worked fine. Awol better honor the sale price once the issue is resolved.


hit me up, I’ve got you.


----------



## Marc D Carra

ProjectionHead said:


> hit me up, I’ve got you.


Thanks Brian! I sent you an email to [email protected]


----------



## Brajesh

Has anyone got (or tried) the Akia 123" CLR4 ALR screen? Thoughts if so?

What about this 135" Elite Screens CineGrey? Wondering if a larger edge-free (non crazy-priced) grey screen might be a good match w/AWOL.


----------



## colinmatheny11

Brajesh said:


> Has anyone got (or tried) the Akia 123" CLR4 ALR screen? Thoughts if so?
> 
> What about this 135" Elite Screens CineGrey? Wondering if a larger edge-free (non crazy-priced) grey screen might be a good match w/AWOL.


I’m using a 150 inch Silver Ticket grey screen with 1.0 gain in my light controlled room and it’s phenomenal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brajesh

I assume it's one of these?

S7-169150-G Silver Ticket: The material is a stretchy, high-quality vinyl at 1.0 gain that is designed for watching movies in low-level ambient lighting. The light-grey tint on the material enhances the black levels in the projected content without shifting the color spectrum.
S7-169150-2GS Silver Ticket: This material is the 2GS a very smooth light grey stretchy, high-quality vinyl at 1.0 gain that is designed for setups with some uncontrolled lighting and/or background lighting. Wait until you see the colors! There is no resolution lost at any angle.


----------



## colinmatheny11

It’s the first one, the cheaper of the two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brajesh

Thanks, just ordered a 150" S7-169150-G. Used 10% off coupon BFCM2022. Man, I've tried a Silver Ticket white 1.1, then an Akia white 1.3, and now a Vividstorm ALR 0.6, to (what I hope is) finally this 1.0 gain grey thin frame Silver Ticket.

Same w/UST's, after a lot of experimenting, settled on AWOL 3500. This after Vava Chroma, Fengmi T1 & Formovie Theater.

Anyone local to ATL interested in a practically new Vividstorm 120" floor-rising ALR, PM me .


----------



## yodathekid

Brajesh said:


> Thanks, just ordered a 150" S7-169150-G. Used 10% off coupon BFCM2022. Man, I've tried a Silver Ticket white 1.1, then an Akia white 1.3, and now a Vividstorm ALR 0.6, to (what I hope is) finally this 1.0 gain grey thin frame Silver Ticket.
> 
> Same w/UST's, after a lot of experimenting, settled on AWOL 3500. This after Vava Chroma, Fengmi T1 & Formovie Theater.
> 
> Anyone local to ATL interested in a practically new Vividstorm 120" floor-rising ALR, PM me .


what did you not like about the vividstorm? And what settled you on the AWOL over the others, particularly the Formovie?


----------



## Brajesh

None "not like", more prefer. Vividstorm is a really nice screen. What I don't like: 120" only (not larger), and not perfectly flat (though latter is addressable).

Settled on AWOL for a couple of key reasons over Formovie: 3D (_awesome 3D I should say_), significantly brighter, better HDR, sharper, & no focus issues on top edges. However, miss Formovie's excellent blacks & contrast and native Dolby Vision, which AWOL 'should' close the gap on w/the impending 'Enhanced Black Level' update in December & the promised addition of Dolby Vision.


----------



## yodathekid

Brajesh said:


> None "not like", more prefer. Vividstorm is a really nice screen. What I don't like: 120" only (not larger), and not perfectly flat (though latter is addressable).
> 
> Settled on AWOL for a couple of key reasons over Formovie: 3D (_awesome 3D I should say_), significantly brighter, better HDR, sharper, & no focus issues on top edges. However, miss Formovie's excellent blacks & contrast and native Dolby Vision, which AWOL 'should' close the gap on w/the impending 'Enhanced Black Level' update in December & the promised addition of Dolby Vision.


Thanks!


----------



## colinmatheny11

Brajesh said:


> Thanks, just ordered a 150" S7-169150-G. Used 10% off coupon BFCM2022. Man, I've tried a Silver Ticket white 1.1, then an Akia white 1.3, and now a Vividstorm ALR 0.6, to (what I hope is) finally this 1.0 gain grey thin frame Silver Ticket.
> 
> Same w/UST's, after a lot of experimenting, settled on AWOL 3500. This after Vava Chroma, Fengmi T1 & Formovie Theater.
> 
> Anyone local to ATL interested in a practically new Vividstorm 120" floor-rising ALR, PM me .


You’re in for a treat! Congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Thanks, just ordered a 150" S7-169150-G. Used 10% off coupon BFCM2022. Man, I've tried a Silver Ticket white 1.1, then an Akia white 1.3, and now a Vividstorm ALR 0.6, to (what I hope is) finally this 1.0 gain grey thin frame Silver Ticket.
> 
> Same w/UST's, after a lot of experimenting, settled on AWOL 3500. This after Vava Chroma, Fengmi T1 & Formovie Theater.
> 
> Anyone local to ATL interested in a practically new Vividstorm 120" floor-rising ALR, PM me .


Thinking of getting the S7-169150-2GS. Will the 10% off coupon work on this screen? Not sure what the difference is from the G model. If this screen can be used with some ambient light then that would be even better than what I have. Being able to go 150” during the day (maybe with some blinds closed) would be incredible. I’m confident the 3500 will have the firepower to pull it off. I will need to modify it to fit on the stand/frame that I have now. I’ll probably wait to hear what your experience is with this screen before I pull the trigger to buy.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Thinking of getting the S7-169150-2GS. Will the 10% off coupon work on this screen? Not sure what the difference is from the G model. If this screen can be used with some ambient light then that would be even better than what I have. Being able to go 150” during the day (maybe with some blinds closed) would be incredible. I’m confident the 3500 will have the firepower to pull it off. I will need to modify it to fit on the stand/frame that I have now. I’ll probably wait to hear what your experience is with this screen before I pull the trigger to buy.


On second thought. I think I might go this route and build by own 150” ALR screen using the DIYUST material that they are selling. Silver Ticket Products DIYUST UST Ultra Short Throw ALR Projector Screen Material Black - RAW Material HDTV 4K / 8K


----------



## Brajesh

The 10% coupon appears to be sitewide, maybe through today, Cyber Monday.

@Dgtr74, I considered the UST material as well, but no details are provided, like gain & make-up of the material. Also what gave me pause is this statement:


> This material is NOT the same material offered in the ST3, S7 or SNB line of UST screens. This material is NOT the same as our UST material offered in the samples.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> The 10% coupon appears to be sitewide, maybe through today, Cyber Monday.
> 
> @Dgtr74, I considered the UST material as well, but no details are provided, like gain & make-up of the material. Also what gave me pause is this statement:


Thanks. That’s a great call out. I will email them and find out. I’m thinking the material will be very similar to the material used in the Vividstorm. Let’s see.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks. That’s a great call out. I will email them and find out. I’m thinking the material will be very similar to the material used in the Vividstorm. Let’s see.


Upon closer inspection, it looks like it’s an ALR/CLR type of material. The pattern is different from the Vividstorm. It looks like some of the ALR materials I see on those Chinese offerings on AliExpress. Will find out what the screen gain is.


----------



## Brajesh

Does look like a real ALR. Strange how w/screen material, one can get up to 150", seemingly w/o two parts seamed/fused together, but not w/pre-built retail.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Does look like a real ALR. Strange how w/screen material, one can get up to 150", seemingly w/o two parts seamed/fused together, but not w/pre-built retail.


Yep, my thoughts as well. I think in your case with a theater type light-controlled room, the S7 G series type material would be better as it will be brighter and deliver more pop…especially for 3D. 3D image on a plain PVC 1.1 gain white material is amazing…I think it looks better than the Vividstorm for 3D use at night. However, I wanted to be able to watch 3D and 4K as well during the day on a 150” screen, so looking at this ALR option. Already emailed them to find out about the material and gain.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, my thoughts as well. I think in your case with a theater type light-controlled room, the S7 G series type material would be better as it will be brighter and deliver more pop…especially for 3D. 3D image on a plain PVC 1.1 gain white material is amazing…I think it looks better than the Vividstorm for 3D use at night. However, I wanted to be able to watch 3D and 4K as well during the day on a 150” screen, so looking at this ALR option. Already emailed them to find out about the material and gain.


This is their response: The on axis gain is 0.8. But the reflective surface on both materials is the same. The part that the light hits and reflects back to the audience is a 1.0 white surface on both materials.

I ordered a sample of their ALR material to test it out first. It was like $8 with tax and shipping.


----------



## Larry Parish

Ordered the 3500 from www.projectorscreen.com. They were very helpful with getting tax exempt Have been looking for a UST for our company for a while. Very excited to see what it can do.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Larry Parish said:


> Ordered the 3500 from www.projectorscreen.com. They were very helpful with getting tax exempt Have been looking for a UST for our company for a while. Very excited to see what it can do.


Thank you very much Larry! Please DM me with your order # so I can flag you as an AVSFroum VIP


----------



## Brajesh

Looks like I've been selected for the 'enhanced black level' beta test. They need to send me the special remote. Very exciting!


----------



## colinmatheny11

Brajesh said:


> Looks like I've been selected for the 'enhanced black level' beta test. They need to send me the special remote. Very exciting!


I had to fill out a survey today as well. Did you hear something back afterwards?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brajesh

They emailed me. As I don't have that special remote necessary, sharing my address where they can ship it.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Looks like I've been selected for the 'enhanced black level' beta test. They need to send me the special remote. Very exciting!


Same. I've already got the remote and the TI software since I did the MCU and DLP update for 3D. Lot's of crazy things you could do with it and cool to see and use as I've only seen screenshots of it before. Not something you want to play around with though for sure.


----------



## clipghost

Keep us updated on the results!


----------



## avkevin

Anyone play around with the color selection settings for the 2500? Skin tone, red, cyan, etc…?

I just updated with the September update and my picture doesn’t appear as sharp and colorful now even after I reapplied all my other settings?


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> Agreed…and the colors are better in person too. Watched Pacific Rim Uprising 3D last night. For this particular blu-ray, I struggled initially to get a 3D lock on either glasses. However, I could not get the Boblov 3D image to stay connected and it kept flickering back and forth (in and out of 3D) and was darker. It was unwatchable. Once the Xpand connected, it locked its 3D image and kept it for the entire movie and was noticeably brighter too. Another WIN for the Xpand 3D glasses vs generic Boblov’s. If you’re seriously into 3D, definitely invest in getting a couple pairs.
> 
> Here’s a few more through the lense pics comparison of the Vividstorm vs the 150” white screen using the Xpand 3D glasses. Of course, the picture looks way better in person and with more accurate colors. There’s not much difference in complete darkness between the 2 screens besides the size difference. However, the only way to watch 3D during the day is to use the Vividstorm and the picture looks amazing as well.


So I may be the outlier, but I'm finding the Xpand glasses pretty meh . Brighter, maybe, but really lacking depth, pop. Almost felt like watching 2D. Much prefer the Boblov. I assume I got the right Xpand kind...









_Update: user error on my part. You need to press the power button 2-3 times on occasion to have it properly synch with your projector_


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> So I may be the outlier, but I'm finding the Xpand glasses pretty meh . Brighter, maybe, but really lacking depth, pop. Almost felt like watching 2D. Much prefer the Boblov. I assume I got the right Xpand kind...
> View attachment 3366321


Really? Did you order the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R? Looks like the correct glasses…have to check it out later when I‘m near my setup. However, I watched Bait 3D the other day and the pop out was incredible (really in your face type)..and really bright too. One of the best 3D titles that I just watched for the first time. The Boblov works okay for me but kept losing sync on some titles and doesn’t have as good coverage. Not sure what the root cause is in your case. Maybe try resetting your AWOL and try other titles.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> So I may be the outlier, but I'm finding the Xpand glasses pretty meh . Brighter, maybe, but really lacking depth, pop. Almost felt like watching 2D. Much prefer the Boblov. I assume I got the right Xpand kind...
> View attachment 3366321


WUT!?  Glasses won't affect pop/depth. Maybe it's your settings??? Very ODD.

Xpand's are brighter with wider/larger lenses and do not affect the color like others do. I have had 6 pair of Boblov and there is a slight color variation with them all--never had sync issues with my Boblov's BTW.

There is another knock off that is better than the Boblov's but dorky looking:








Amazon.com: 2 Pieces DLP Link 3D Glasses, Ultra-Clear HD 144 Hz 3D Active Rechargeable & Lightweight Shutter Glasses for All 3D DLP Projectors-BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Mitsubishi etc : Electronics


Buy 2 Pieces DLP Link 3D Glasses, Ultra-Clear HD 144 Hz 3D Active Rechargeable & Lightweight Shutter Glasses for All 3D DLP Projectors-BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Mitsubishi etc: 3D Glasses - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I think you can get the dorky looking ones on alibaba for 10 bucks each.

Neither are as good as Xpand's. Everything else is a distant second. If you need to off load a few let me know.


----------



## Makabaka_

Brajesh said:


> None "not like", more prefer. Vividstorm is a really nice screen. What I don't like: 120" only (not larger), and not perfectly flat (though latter is addressable).
> 
> Settled on AWOL for a couple of key reasons over Formovie: 3D (_awesome 3D I should say_), significantly brighter, better HDR, sharper, & no focus issues on top edges. However, miss Formovie's excellent blacks & contrast and native Dolby Vision, which AWOL 'should' close the gap on w/the impending 'Enhanced Black Level' update in December & the promised addition of Dolby Vision.


Very objective. AWOl 3500 and VIVIDSTORM screen seem to be a good match.


----------



## Lion DD

adrift said:


> I got a very similar deal on ProjectorScreen's website. Decided to go with them as they often post good tech info on A/V forums here and on Reddit, and it was nice to know that I could get a hold of someone immediately if I had questions (though I hear that AWOL's customer services is also very good).


Yes!It is more convincing to have professional technical support, yes, the customer service of vividstorm and awolvision are excellent, especially vividstorm, not only asked questions about the screen, but also answered questions about the projector very professionally


----------



## arsenalfc89

Got an email for the Beta Enhanced Black Level software. Will be checking it out later today.


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> So I may be the outlier, but I'm finding the Xpand glasses pretty meh . Brighter, maybe, but really lacking depth, pop. Almost felt like watching 2D. Much prefer the Boblov. I assume I got the right Xpand kind...
> View attachment 3366321


Those look like the right glasses. 

Honestly, I'm kinda with you with my experience so far. I should point out that I've only used them to watch side-by-side and top-bottom 3D rips. They work _as_ well as the Boblov's for most cases, which is to say, there _is_ depth and pop and quite a bit more brightness, but not the *incredible* 3D experience I was hoping/expecting. They're far more comfortable than the Boblov's, but I don't like the power-on button placement inside of the glasses, and they don't seem to have a reverse eye option that the Boblov's do, which means I need to reverse the preference in the AWOL settings, and my impression (perhaps purely in my head) is that the change from the settings menu doesn't look as good as it does when reversing from the switch on the glasses. Normally this isn't an issue, as most films are left-eye preference anyways, but I've encountered right-eye preference 3D a couple times.

I'll be getting a new Blu-ray player on Monday, so am looking forward to frame-packed 3D, and will then hopefully get out of them what others are experiencing. It's also very possible that since my last forays into 3D with my Xgimi Lune that my eyes have gotten worse, and I need to get them checked. 😆


----------



## Casey_Bryson

arsenalfc89 said:


> Got an email for the Beta Enhanced Black Level software. Will be checking it out later today.


You're going to be VERY VERY happy later today as it appears...they've done it!!!

I have not put it through a thorough evaluation, but I did play some of the most problematic content, namely the opening scenes in Vengeance (brown tones, very low APL) and a few scenes in Werewolf by Night (greys and dynamic scenes from dark to bright APL) and both of those scenes passed with flying colors, no pun intended--no color change, no pumping and...as far as I can tell with the naked eye, the same or better contrast provided by High Dynamic with the current public firmware relase!!!

The only caveat is that it's in Bright and Standard light modes. Seems to be disabled everywhere else. I'll see if we can get it a light setting of 10 like Low Dynamic and High Dynamic were.

@arsenalfc89 would love to see you do some tests with the tools you have. I'll be putting it through the ringer during the test. It's not perfect, but seems damn near close at this stage.


----------



## Brajesh

Exciting! I'm waiting for the special remote to arrive. On the zip they shared, I'm only seeing the image file, not the DLP Control Program. Did I miss something?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Exciting! I'm waiting for the special remote to arrive. On the zip they shared, I'm only seeing the image file, not the DLP Control Program. Did I miss something?


You're right. I had them both installed before. 
E-mail them.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Casey_Bryson said:


> You're going to be VERY VERY happy later today as it appears...they've done it!!!
> 
> I have not put it through a thorough evaluation, but I did play some of the most problematic content, namely the opening scenes in Vengeance (brown tones, very low APL) and a few scenes in Werewolf by Night (greys and dynamic scenes from dark to bright APL) and both of those scenes passed with flying colors, no pun intended--no color change, no pumping and...as far as I can tell with the naked eye, the same or better contrast provided by High Dynamic with the current public firmware relase!!!
> 
> The only caveat is that it's in Bright and Standard light modes. Seems to be disabled everywhere else. I'll see if we can get it a light setting of 10 like Low Dynamic and High Dynamic were.
> 
> @arsenalfc89 would love to see you do some tests with the tools you have. I'll be putting it through the ringer during the test. It's not perfect, but seems damn near close at this stage.


That's great news. If I remember correctly with High Dynamic the contrast was mid 2500ish:1 so if this is better with no change in white balance then it's a VERY good option. I was curious about putting the light output on 10 and if that will still allow for the Ehanced Black option.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

For people who have used both- is there an egregious sharpness difference between the AWOL and the FMT? The AWOL seems tack sharp and the FMT looks very soft and almost grainy in places.


----------



## Brajesh

AWOL is noticeably sharper. Wouldn't say FMT is soft or grainy though, maybe only in comparison. But, of course, FMT excels at blacks & contrast, but that gap looks to be closing based on Casey's initial impressions of the latest beta firmware.


----------



## arsenalfc89

I decided to check out the contrast using Chromapure. I normally use Coulourspace for more precise measurements but since the Chromapure software was already up and I’m low on time right now so why not. Looking at the attached pictures you can see what is going on with this Beta. Bright, Standard, and USER light settings all are using the new Enhanced Black update. Soft, High Dynamic, and Low Dynamic are not but that may all change once the actual update is out.

Pay attention to the black floor measurements and as you can see it’s a drastic improvement. The low APL measurements have also improved so you are going to see even better intrascene contrast than before which is impressive. For comparison I believe the JVC projectors have a black floor measurement of .00xxfL (great black levels) or something like that and the ALPD units are around .03-.04fL. As you can see when the Enhanced Black isn’t being used, see the “SOFT” picture the black floor can get to .1fL which is average and to some dark gray depending on calibration. Overall a welcome update and again keep in mind that I didn’t set up any strict measurements so definitely wait for updated reviews from the pros.

P.S. my projector is 3D LUT calibrated to a 2.4 gamma so your measurements will be different.

USER: 2395
BRIGHT: 2377
STANDARD: 2318
SOFT: 994


----------



## clipghost

arsenalfc89 said:


> I decided to check out the contrast using Chromapure. I normally use Coulourspace for more precise measurements but since the Chromapure software was already up and I’m low on time right now so why not. Looking at the attached pictures you can see what is going on with this Beta. Bright, Standard, and USER light settings all are using the new Enhanced Black update. Soft, High Dynamic, and Low Dynamic are not but that may all change once the actual update is out.
> 
> Pay attention to the black floor measurements and as you can see it’s a drastic improvement. The low APL measurements have also improved so you are going to see even better intrascene contrast than before which is impressive. For comparison I believe the JVC projectors have a black floor measurement of .00xxfL (great black levels) or something like that and the ALPD units are around .03-.04fL. As you can see when the Enhanced Black isn’t being used, see the “SOFT” picture the black floor can get to .1fL which is average and to some dark gray depending on calibration. Overall a welcome update and again keep in mind that I didn’t set up any strict measurements so definitely wait for updated reviews from the pros.
> 
> P.S. my projector is 3D LUT calibrated to a 2.4 gamma so your measurements will be different.
> 
> USER: 2395
> BRIGHT: 2377
> STANDARD: 2318
> SOFT: 994


I don't really understand what I am looking at here. This is the new enhanced black?


----------



## Marc D Carra

clipghost said:


> I don't really understand what I am looking at here. This is the new enhanced black?


It appears as though the contrast has been improved by almost 2.5x?! Is this correct😮


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Marc D Carra said:


> It appears as though the contrast has been improved by almost 2.5x?! Is this correct😮


Yes virtually indisinguishable from ALPD projectors like the Formovie Theater (if not better due to laser dimming e.g. Die Hard looks 🔥 ) Just watched The Usual Suspects in full, parts of The Matrix, Interstellar, and a few Die Hard scenes that are notriously low APL/ADL and It's really beautiful. Tears of joy 'ish no lie. Granted it's not JVC LCoS laser level black, but it's RGB laser 107% rec 2020 hello gorgeous at 200+ nits FTW!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Casey_Bryson said:


> The only caveat is that it's in Bright and Standard light modes. Seems to be disabled everywhere else. I'll see if we can get it a light setting of 10 like Low Dynamic and High Dynamic were.


UPDATE: It's also working in Custom 1-10 light mode as @arsenalfc89 pointed out to me. I'm guessing Low and High Dynamic options are going to go away-- no need for them now.


----------



## clipghost

Casey_Bryson said:


> Yes virtually indisinguishable from ALPD projectors like the Formovie Theater (if not better due to laser dimming e.g. Die Hard looks 🔥 ) Just watched The Usual Suspects in full, parts of The Matrix, Interstellar, and a few Die Hard scenes that are notriously low APL/ADL and It's really beautiful. Tears of joy 'ish no lie. Granted it's not JVC LCoS laser level black, but it's RGB laser 107% rec 2020 hello gorgeous at 200+ nits FTW!
> 
> View attachment 3366897


Hope this is not just just overhype! Can you post pictures of material/some examples of black levels? Maybe comparing a before and after?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

clipghost said:


> Hope this is not just just overhype! Can you post pictures of material/some examples of black levels? Maybe comparing a before and after?


Not hyperbole. Impossible to really capture. Just coming from 3 years with an ALPD laser projector. I still have it so might be able to approximate it, though it would still not be accurate based on your viewing screen. It's not necessary really. Just take my word for it or if you've seen 1000:1 versus 2500:1 with Laser Dimming you'd know.

The important thing is it's the comparable to the best UST DLP tech can offer at the moment that anyone can reasonably afford.


----------



## clipghost

Casey_Bryson said:


> Not hyperbole. Impossible to really capture. Just coming from 3 years with an ALPD laser projector. I still have it so might be able to approximate it, though it would still not be accurate based on your viewing screen. It's not necessary really. Just take my word for it or if you've seen 1000:1 versus 2500:1 with Laser Dimming you'd know.
> 
> The important thing is it's the comparable to the best UST DLP tech can offer at the moment that anyone can reasonably afford.


Would be great to see a head to head with the Formovie now.


----------



## Brajesh

Very impressive numbers, thanks much for sharing those measurements. I’m curious how they managed to get it done.


----------



## avkevin

Is this something the 2500 might be able to achieve as well? Or does it not have enough brightness to create the contrast like the 3500 has? Fingers crossed if they can’t duplicate on the 2500 they might at least be able to offer some enhancement. Not that my picture is bad, I think us 2500 owners will feel left out and wish we spent a bit more if there’s now going to be that much of a difference in picture quality between the two models.


----------



## avkevin

Brajesh said:


> Very impressive numbers, thanks much for sharing those measurements. I’m curious how they managed to get it done.


Learn to code. 😉


----------



## arsenalfc89

@Casey_Bryson is right in that this is a very good update. It changes the low APL scenes drastically.


----------



## Dave Harper

Can someone test if it does full fade to black with the lasers when a full black scene is shown? 

You may have to change the brightness and contrast a little up and down. Usually you go down some on the brightness in combination with adjusting contrast. What I can do on my LK990 is lower brightness and adjust contrast higher while I have a 0% black screen on and then I find that perfect balance where the laser shuts off and if I click either brightness or contrast up even one click then it will turn the laser on its lowest setting.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Has anyone tried an Awolvision 3500 on a 2.35:1 screen? I was thinking of leaving my old white 125" 2.35:1 scope screen up and putting a Vividstorm 120" 16x9 to raise right in front of it for 16x9 material. I could pull the projector back to fill the 2.35:1 screen for scope movies in the dark, eliminating the top and bottom black bars, improving the perceived contrast especially in darker scenes. I would just have to do some minor refocusing if they are both at the same height.


----------



## Dgtr74

Was able to install and test the Enhanced Black Level update last night...WOW! I took a screen shot of a very dark scene at the beginning of the movie (Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice) on the 120” Vividstorm motorized ALR screen. Had the exact same camera exposure and settings. I used the “Standard“ light mode for both shots. Same HDR User settings. The lower black floor is significant!


----------



## avkevin

I have the 2500, hope they can work this sorcery magic on mine too!

Didn’t realize my 2500 wasn’t connected to internet so reconnected. When checking firmware there was an update from September I missed so I installed. The picture looks more speckled now, or is it me staring at the image too intensely looking for a difference? Working on readjusting settings to something different from what I had before and it’s looking better now but not as sharp with the colors popping as it was before.

I also noticed a 3D option that I don’t remember seeing before the update but it’s not selectable? Is that only for the 3500 at this point? The “Wide Color Gamut” option is visible but no longer available to select as it’s grayed out? It looks like it’s defaulted to “on” so I’m hoping it is and that it’s not grayed out because it’s not available either like the 3D. That WCG option made a big difference when I was able to toggle it on before.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

avkevin said:


> I have the 2500... I also noticed a 3D option that I don’t remember seeing before the update but it’s not selectable? Is that only for the 3500 at this point? The “Wide Color Gamut” option is visible but no longer available to select as it’s grayed out? It looks like it’s defaulted to “on” so I’m hoping it is and that it’s not grayed out because it’s not available either like the 3D. That WCG option made a big difference when I was able to toggle it on before.


I have the 2500 also and noticed the same greyed out 3D menu option after upgrading the firmware. Here is the help I received to get 3D enabled on my 2500: AWOL LTV-3500 Impressions


----------



## yodathekid

Marc D Carra said:


> Has anyone tried an Awolvision 3500 on a 2.35:1 screen? I was thinking of leaving my old white 125" 2.35:1 scope screen up and putting a Vividstorm 120" 16x9 to raise right in front of it for 16x9 material. I could pull the projector back to fill the 2.35:1 screen for scope movies in the dark, eliminating the top and bottom black bars, improving the perceived contrast especially in darker scenes. I would just have to do some minor refocusing if they are both at the same height.


Would it be simpler to replace your 125" 2.35 screen with a larger 16x9 screen and add masking panels vs having 2 screens and physically shifting the projector and refocusing it?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

avkevin said:


> I have the 2500, hope they can work this sorcery magic on mine too!


Just got some feedback from one of my submissions. They are trying to make it work on the 2500. 🤞

Also the High and Low Dynamic options will likely be removed with a toggle switch for Enhanced Black on each light mode


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Noticed that the *AWOL LTV-3500* has the *DLPC7541 controller* and the *DLP471TE DMD*. Both are *capable of 1080p at 240hz* which may be a boon for gamers looking to minimize the input lag.

Has anyone tried anything above 120hz? Assuming it's not possible, but maybe without 2.1 port?


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> Really? Did you order the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R? Looks like the correct glasses…have to check it out later when I‘m near my setup. However, I watched Bait 3D the other day and the pop out was incredible (really in your face type)..and really bright too. One of the best 3D titles that I just watched for the first time. The Boblov works okay for me but kept losing sync on some titles and doesn’t have as good coverage. Not sure what the root cause is in your case. Maybe try resetting your AWOL and try other titles.





Casey_Bryson said:


> WUT!?  Glasses won't affect pop/depth. Maybe it's your settings??? Very ODD.
> 
> Xpand's are brighter with wider/larger lenses and do not affect the color like others do. I have had 6 pair of Boblov and there is a slight color variation with them all--never had sync issues with my Boblov's BTW.
> 
> There is another knock off that is better than the Boblov's but dorky looking:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: 2 Pieces DLP Link 3D Glasses, Ultra-Clear HD 144 Hz 3D Active Rechargeable & Lightweight Shutter Glasses for All 3D DLP Projectors-BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Mitsubishi etc : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy 2 Pieces DLP Link 3D Glasses, Ultra-Clear HD 144 Hz 3D Active Rechargeable & Lightweight Shutter Glasses for All 3D DLP Projectors-BenQ, Optoma, Dell, Mitsubishi etc: 3D Glasses - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you can get the dorky looking ones on alibaba for 10 bucks each.
> 
> Neither are as good as Xpand's. Everything else is a distant second. If you need to off load a few let me know.


User error 😊🤪! Had pressed the power button on the Xpand, but looks like it needs to be done again to ensure synch. Yes, yes, 3D looks great through these 😎, but I'd say the Boblov (the real ones) are pretty close second. Xpands are more comfy however, and the immediate sides/temples are wider to block peripheral distraction.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> Can someone test if it does full fade to black with the lasers when a full black scene is shown?
> 
> You may have to change the brightness and contrast a little up and down. Usually you go down some on the brightness in combination with adjusting contrast. What I can do on my LK990 is lower brightness and adjust contrast higher while I have a 0% black screen on and then I find that perfect balance where the laser shuts off and if I click either brightness or contrast up even one click then it will turn the laser on its lowest setting.


I'll take a look later. I think it can do this based upon quick inspection but I'll double check.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> Was able to install and test the Enhanced Black Level update last night...WOW! I took a screen shot of a very dark scene at the beginning of the movie (Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice) on the 120” Vividstorm motorized ALR screen. Had the exact same camera exposure and settings. I used the “Standard“ light mode for both shots. Same HDR User settings. The lower black floor is significant!
> View attachment 3367379


Wow! This is an amazing difference. I'm always hearing about richer blacks on different projectors, but I think this is the first time I've seen a side-by-side that shows how important that is, and how great it looks. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> Wow! This is an amazing difference. I'm always hearing about richer blacks on different projectors, but I think this is the first time I've seen a side-by-side that shows how important that is, and how great it looks. Thanks for sharing!


Sure thing. I also compared this scene to my OLED monitor. I much prefer the image on the AWOL b/c the highlights still pops due to its brightness and combined with the lower black floor, the image just stands out so much more and looks gorgeous in person. The OLED was too dim in comparison. I’m noticing an improvement in contrast as well in daytime viewing.


----------



## Brajesh

Concur with other beta testers here. I'm truly impressed! AWOL has done it! It isn't T1/Theater level, but certainly more than respectable considering zero loss in that excellent brightness AWOL boasts. Regular HDR looks way better, more so now, on AWOL vs. Formovie. Now bring on DV & no other UST will best the 3500 !














You can see the difference in blacks, especially with the second 'Jolt' 4K HDR clip...

Pre-Enhanced Black Level firmware:





Post-application of Enhanced Black Level firmware:


----------



## davidimdpt

Looks great!


----------



## Marc D Carra

yodathekid said:


> Would it be simpler to replace your 125" 2.35 screen with a larger 16x9 screen and add masking panels vs having 2 screens and physically shifting the projector and refocusing it?


Since my 2.35:1 screen cost me almost nothing and is already installed, I figure I will use it for movies that are that aspect ratio. It's equivalent to using a 140" 16x9 screen if you remove the black bars from the top and bottom. My theater room is only 79" high so this allow me to use my space to the fullest. Buying a 2.35:1 125" ALR screen would cost a fair chunk of change. The Awol 3500 came with a Vividstorm 120" ALR floor rising, so I figure I will have the best of both worlds and get the largest scope ratio picture, along with the largest 16x9 picture my room will allow. I will just have to pull my center channel forward


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Concur with other beta testers here. I'm truly impressed! AWOL has done it! It isn't T1/Theater level, but certainly more than respectable considering zero loss in that excellent brightness AWOL boasts. Regular HDR looks way better, more so now, on AWOL vs. Formovie. Now bring on DV & no other UST will best the 3500 !
> View attachment 3367685
> View attachment 3367686
> 
> 
> You can see the difference in blacks, especially with the second 'Jolt' 4K HDR clip...
> 
> Pre-Enhanced Black Level firmware:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post-application of Enhanced Black Level firmware:


Thanks Brajesh! Here’s a screen shot comparison from your video. Truly dramatic!😀 Extremely impressed that AWOL was able to do this while retaining the brightness of the image. HDR pops like crazy!


----------



## arsenalfc89

Yeah I’m starting to see that the highlights still pop with the lower black level and to me is the most impressive part. I honestly was expecting the whole image to just get dimmer.


----------



## leo0111127

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks Brajesh! Here’s a screen shot comparison from your video. Truly dramatic!😀 Extremely impressed that AWOL was able to do this while retaining the brightness of the image. HDR pops like crazy!
> 
> View attachment 3367735


Good picture


----------



## Marc D Carra

Brajesh said:


> Concur with other beta testers here. I'm truly impressed! AWOL has done it! It isn't T1/Theater level, but certainly more than respectable considering zero loss in that excellent brightness AWOL boasts. Regular HDR looks way better, more so now, on AWOL vs. Formovie. Now bring on DV & no other UST will best the 3500 !
> View attachment 3367685
> View attachment 3367686
> 
> 
> You can see the difference in blacks, especially with the second 'Jolt' 4K HDR clip...
> 
> Pre-Enhanced Black Level firmware:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Post-application of Enhanced Black Level firmware:


This looks very promising. Deeper blacks without losing that HDR pop will certainly be amazing! I see you are using a Vertex2 with your setup. I have one I was using with my Epson laser 12000. Is it just as effective on the Awolvision 3500?


----------



## Brajesh

I'm using VRROOM, but it's very similar to Vertex2. It's a great device & works well with AWOL, but will probably get rid of it if/when DV is added. With T1/Formovie, while it was nice to have additional picture controls with LLDV, I found straight DV Bright mode excellent as is.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks Brajesh! Here’s a screen shot comparison from your video. Truly dramatic!😀 Extremely impressed that AWOL was able to do this while retaining the brightness of the image. HDR pops like crazy!
> 
> View attachment 3367735


Pretty encouraging! I’ve got two ltv-3500 units here; plan on putting one with enhanced contrast directly next to the one that we don’t update with the beta to do an at-the-same-time comparison once I have time after the dust settles from Black Friday/Cyber Week.


----------



## brokenconduit

Larry Parish said:


> Ordered the 3500 from www.projectorscreen.com. They were very helpful with getting tax exempt Have been looking for a UST for our company for a while. Very excited to see what it can do.





ProjectionHead said:


> Thank you very much Larry! Please DM me with your order # so I can flag you as an AVSFroum VIP


Agreed! Brian and the team at projectorscreen have been such a breath of fresh air to work with. Excited to hopefully get this projector soon as well


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ProjectionHead said:


> Pretty encouraging! I’ve got two ltv-3500 units here; plan on putting one with enhanced contrast directly next to the one that we don’t update with the beta to do an at-the-same-time comparison once I have time after the dust settles from Black Friday/Cyber Week.


Even better: compare the Formovie Theater with the AWOL LTV-3500 playing Die Hard for a minute starting at the 1:24:00 mark. 😎


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Even better: compare the Formovie Theater with the AWOL LTV-3500 playing Die Hard for a minute starting at the 1:24:00 mark. 😎


@Casey_Bryson Curious to know what you‘ve set your gamma settings to. I have mine on “standard” but I feel like with this latest enhanced black update I can push gamma to high to see even more shadow details without impacting the blacks much. Again, this is such an incredible update. 4K HDR videos/movies has never looked this good. I hope they’ve fixed any bugs left and truly push the 3500 to the limit to maximize the contrast ratio before it’s released to the masses. I sent some feedback to them as well.


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> Even better: compare the Formovie Theater with the AWOL LTV-3500 playing Die Hard for a minute starting at the 1:24:00 mark. 😎


Do you just happen to have both projectors handy and can compare them side by side? Would be cool to see some pictures between them!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> Do you just happen to have both projectors handy and can compare them side by side? Would be cool to see some pictures between them!


I tried, but my camera phone (Samsung Galaxy Note10+ cannot capture it on the AWOL side--Magenta everywhere. I might be able to in week or so, but it's difficult to take picutres the projected image from RGB lasers--it looks right on the screen, but it reflects red everywhere in the room.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> @Casey_Bryson Curious to know what you‘ve set your gamma settings to. I have mine on “standard” but I feel like with this latest enhanced black update I can push gamma to high to see even more shadow details without impacting the blacks much. Again, this is such an incredible update. 4K HDR videos/movies has never looked this good. I hope they’ve fixed any bugs left and truly push the 3500 to the limit to maximize the contrast ratio before it’s released to the masses. I sent some feedback to them as well.


Good point and I haven't seen Gama discussed in depth.

Before and after the update I have used Bright, which I'm assuming should be 2.0, but it looks like 2.1 to me and so I use that and then lower the Brightness down to 43 (before the update) and Contrast to 51 or so to make it look more like 2.4. If I use Dark or Standard and adjust the Brightness and Contrast the mid tones are too dark. Bright gama gives me the best image on mine even though it shouldn't. NOTE: With Enhaced Black I had to move the Brightness up a few notches to 45 in HDR and SDR (which should match if you are tone mapping properly) My Contast is slightly higher in SDR at 54 versus 51 in HDR.

Interestingly enough I use the same ratio/settings with Brightness and Contrast that I did on my Fengmi/Formovie to achieve the same look. Just know that I favor a 2.4 look which means if I have to lose something, I favor crushing blacks over shadow detail. I think most favor 2.4 or 2.2, but those that favor shadow detail I assume are going to prefer 2.0. However I think 2.0 and the extra shadow detail flattens the image too much and introduces a grey, cloudy like image in darker parts of the image. I much prefer adding depth to an image, hence the Brightness setting lower than the Contrast.

Tone Mapping wise I use HDR Low becuase I have MadVR as my dynamic frame by frame tone mapper.


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> I tried, but my camera phone (Samsung Galaxy Note10+ cannot capture it on the AWOL side--Magenta everywhere. I might be able to in week or so, but it's difficult to take picutres the projected image from RGB lasers--it looks right on the screen, but it reflects red everywhere in the room.


Understood. But I am saying in general, you have both projectors with you? The Formovie Theater and the AWOL 3500? So you are comparing them side by side?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> Understood. But I am saying in general, you have both projectors with you? The Formovie Theater and the AWOL 3500? So you are comparing them side by side?


I have the Fengmi/Formovie 4 K Cinema from 2019. It's their single laser. I'm not comparing them side by side because I know the look of that scene very well and used the projector heavily for over 3 years. Let me put it this way: At no point when watching Die Hard did I ever think, "man I wish the blacks were better" which is pretty insane with any DLP. I did wish the blacks were better with the same movie on my Fengmi/Formovie with 3000:1.

In 2020 I compared the same scene with the Optoma P2 which included laser dimming and the P2 beat out the Fengmi/Formovie then in those scenes with laser dimming, but it also introduced a copper like tone when it pumped in and out of laser dimming. I was glad to get rid of the P2, but it showed me what laser dimming as capable of, if only they could solve the pumping and keep the white balance in check. AWOL has figured it out and it's about as good as it gets now. It's not perfect, but it's benefits far outway the negatives even when compared against native contrast only.

Maybe Formovie will add laser dimming, but they haven't tried in any their laser projectors since 2017. Even their higher lumen models like the Fengmi Max have ~4500 lumens, but their Contrast Ratio suffers at 1500:1, surely they would have implemented it then if they had the means. Some say they do and that's how they acheive over 3000:1, but there is no evidence of any laser dimming.


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> I have the Fengmi/Formovie 4 K Cinema from 2019. It's their single laser. I'm not comparing them side by side because I know the look of that scene very well and used the projector heavily for over 3 years. Let me put it this way: At no point when watching Die Hard did I ever think, "man I wish the blacks were better" which is pretty insane with any DLP. I did wish the blacks were better with the same movie on my Fengmi/Formovie with 3000:1.
> 
> In 2020 I compared the same scene with the Optoma P2 which included laser dimming and the P2 beat out the Fengmi/Formovie then in those scenes with laser dimming, but it also introduced a copper like tone when it pumped in and out of laser dimming. I was glad to get rid of the P2, but it showed me what laser dimming as capable of, if only they could solve the pumping and keep the white balance in check. AWOL has figured it out and it's about as good as it gets now. It's not perfect, but it's benefits far outway the negatives even when compared against native contrast only.
> 
> Maybe Formovie will add laser dimming, but they haven't tried in any their laser projectors since 2017. Even their higher lumen models like the Fengmi Max have ~4500 lumens, but their Contrast Ratio suffers at 1500:1, surely they would have implemented it then if they had the means. Some say they do and that's how they acheive over 3000:1, but there is no evidence of any laser dimming.


Thanks for the info! Looks like I have to check out that Die Hard scene when I get it. I know the kids like watching Harry Potter a lot and I remember the last few being fairly dark. Wonder how it will do with this enhanced black.


----------



## yodathekid

Marc D Carra said:


> Since my 2.35:1 screen cost me almost nothing and is already installed, I figure I will use it for movies that are that aspect ratio. It's equivalent to using a 140" 16x9 screen if you remove the black bars from the top and bottom. My theater room is only 79" high so this allow me to use my space to the fullest. Buying a 2.35:1 125" ALR screen would cost a fair chunk of change. The Awol 3500 came with a Vividstorm 120" ALR floor rising, so I figure I will have the best of both worlds and get the largest scope ratio picture, along with the largest 16x9 picture my room will allow. I will just have to pull my center channel forward
> View attachment 3367729


Didn’t realize you already had the vividstorm. Curious how the scope screen will work for you with the AWOL. Does it have image blanking? I guess that’s not really necessary for you since you have dedicated screens for both 16x9 and 2.35.

if you only have a 2.35 screen, could one build a slider system for the projector itself, so that for different aspect ratios from scope to 1.78, you could maintain constant height?


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Good point and I haven't seen Gama discussed in depth.
> 
> Before and after the update I have used Bright, which I'm assuming should be 2.0, but it looks like 2.1 to me and so I use that and then lower the Brightness down to 43 (before the update) and Contrast to 51 or so to make it look more like 2.4. If I use Dark or Standard and adjust the Brightness and Contrast the mid tones are too dark. Bright gama gives me the best image on mine even though it shouldn't. NOTE: With Enhaced Black I had to move the Brightness up a few notches to 45 in HDR and SDR (which should match if you are tone mapping properly) My Contast is slightly higher in SDR at 54 versus 51 in HDR.
> 
> Interestingly enough I use the same ratio/settings with Brightness and Contrast that I did on my Fengmi/Formovie to achieve the same look. Just know that I favor a 2.4 look which means if I have to lose something, I favor crushing blacks over shadow detail. I think most favor 2.4 or 2.2, but those that favor shadow detail I assume are going to prefer 2.0. However I think 2.0 and the extra shadow detail flattens the image too much and introduces a grey, cloudy like image in darker parts of the image. I much prefer adding depth to an image, hence the Brightness setting lower than the Contrast.
> 
> Tone Mapping wise I use HDR Low becuase I have MadVR as my dynamic frame by frame tone mapper.


Thanks for that detailed explanation! I‘ll try these settings for myself when I have some time this weekend. 🙏


----------



## Brajesh

Casey_Bryson said:


> Even better: compare the Formovie Theater with the AWOL LTV-3500 playing Die Hard for a minute starting at the 1:24:00 mark. 😎


I don't have Formovie Theater anymore, but looks great on AWOL ... (_video is still "processing" up to 4K on YT, may take a while_)


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> Thanks for the info! Looks like I have to check out that Die Hard scene when I get it. I know the kids like watching Harry Potter a lot and I remember the last few being fairly dark. Wonder how it will do with this enhanced black.


I tested Die Hard last night and @Casey_Bryson is right…the picture looks wonderful! I compared the scenes with my OLED and I much prefer the images coming out of the AWOL. The blacks looks very deep to me and the highlights still punches through to provide an incredible picture. I will have some side by side with the OLED and AWOL comparison later tonight…using my DSLR in manual mode to capture the screen.


----------



## Brajesh

Darn copyright strike for a such a short clip... here it is on my Google Drive.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> I tested Die Hard last night and @Casey_Bryson is right…the picture looks wonderful! I compared the scenes with my OLED and I much prefer the images coming out of the AWOL. The blacks looks very deep to me and the highlights still punches through to provide an incredible picture. I will have some side by side with the OLED and AWOL comparison later tonight…using my DSLR in manual mode to capture the screen.


Preference to OLED? WOAH! That's something I didn't expect to hear. Now this I'd like to see...


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> I don't have Formovie Theater anymore, but looks great on AWOL ... (_video is still "processing" up to 4K on YT, may take a while_)


That didn't take long. Congrats. Also thanks for taking the time to take the vid.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> I tested Die Hard last night and @Casey_Bryson is right…the picture looks wonderful! I compared the scenes with my OLED and I much prefer the images coming out of the AWOL. The blacks looks very deep to me and the highlights still punches through to provide an incredible picture. I will have some side by side with the OLED and AWOL comparison later tonight…using my DSLR in manual mode to capture the screen.


I have a ProArt PQ22UC 22” OLED display that I took some screen grabs from and compared it to the AWOL. I’m not sure why it looks so dim with this Die Hard HDR clip but I compared these shots with pics I took of the AWOL. Obviously, not an apples to apples comparison b/c on the ProArt it’s an actual screenshot at a much smaller screen so resolution will be different. AWOL image will look grainier at 120”. With that said, I like the AWOL pic better as the highlights pop more as you can see on the left even though the OLED has that deep black. I didn’t have time to run the clip on my 80” 3D LED TV but the TV should definitely be brighter in comparison to the monitor. (Note: the AWOL has a magenta push which is not present in the actual image output, the colors are actually very similar to the OLED)


----------



## Brajesh

Think I may be the first (dunno) to find a major problem after applying the beta 'Enhanced Black Level' firmware... 3D no longer works! Tested several full 3D (MVC MKV, ISO) titles & after I choose 'Frame Packing' option in AWOL, screen goes dark. Audio is there. But, projector completely locks up, w/no remote button responding, even if I stop video playback. Only fix is to physically unplug the AWOL & plug it back on.

Can one of you guys w/the beta f/w & w/a 3D source please test and report back? Thanks!


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Think I may be the first (dunno) to find a major problem after applying the beta 'Enhanced Black Level' firmware... 3D no longer works! Tested several full 3D (MVC MKV, ISO) titles & after I choose 'Frame Packing' option in AWOL, screen goes dark. Audio is there. But, projector completely locks up, w/no remote button responding, even if I stop video playback. Only fix is to physically unplug the AWOL & plug it back on.
> 
> Can one of you guys w/the beta f/w & w/a 3D source please test and report back? Thanks!


I tested 3D blu-rays yesterday and it worked perfectly. I haven’t tried running 3D titles from my Zidoo. I will try it soon and let you know.


----------



## Brajesh

Please do, thanks. Zidoo Z9X is what I used.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Please do, thanks. Zidoo Z9X is what I used.


I just tried Alita Battle Angle (iso file) on the Zidoo and it worked perfectly...and it looks incredible as ever with deeper blacks. I ran it from the Media Center and selected play movie only. Will look for an MKV source to try next…


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Please do, thanks. Zidoo Z9X is what I used.


I just tied a couple mkv. Ran SBS 3840x1080 version of Saw 3D. It worked but sometimes lose sync. I only have a few mkv files and I find they don’t work as well as ISOs. Not sure if it’s the Zidoo or the file. But I don’t have the same issue as you do. Have you been able to find out what the root cause is of the issue?


----------



## Kev1000000

I assume the Enhanced Black Level will also work in SDR as well?


----------



## Dgtr74

Kev1000000 said:


> I assume the Enhanced Black Level will also work in SDR as well?


It sure does. Any source, HDR or SDR. Dark to bright movies, day or night…this thing excels! 

@Brajesh Watching Aquaman 3D right now on the Zidoo. It works great with the Xpand 3D glasses. However, it still loses sync every now and then. Not sure if this happens with the blu-ray disk. Will test it. Btw, Aquaman 3D looks incredible with dark deep colors and amazing contrast in dark scenes. I feel like I’m watching a new movie. Not sure if you’ve watched the 3D version but definitely watch it…some of the best 3D I’ve seen..right there with Avatar. Hope the 3D is working on your unit.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Think I may be the first (dunno) to find a major problem after applying the beta 'Enhanced Black Level' firmware... 3D no longer works! Tested several full 3D (MVC MKV, ISO) titles & after I choose 'Frame Packing' option in AWOL, screen goes dark. Audio is there. But, projector completely locks up, w/no remote button responding, even if I stop video playback. Only fix is to physically unplug the AWOL & plug it back on.
> 
> Can one of you guys w/the beta f/w & w/a 3D source please test and report back? Thanks!



I had the same issue, but I can turn off the screen. Not sure what the commonality is and why it's happening to ours but not Dgtr74.

@Brajesh Let's try to isolate it via DM's. I don't think it has anything to do with Zidoo or a 3D signal since it happens when you turn on any 3D mode.

I also set my user mode to Standard and light mode to Soft which disables Enhanced Black so it must be something else, but I can't think of any thing else, since the settings are pretty much default that way. (I even tried turning off the Actuator/wobulator but that didn't help either)

Maybe enabling 3D via the DLP software and enable 3D command will work?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Kev1000000 said:


> I assume the Enhanced Black Level will also work in SDR as well?


Yeah Kev you need to ditch your current UST (A300 still?) and see the light or is it the dark now 😜


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> It sure does. Any source, HDR or SDR. Dark to bright movies, day or night…this thing excels!
> 
> @Brajesh Watching Aquaman 3D right now on the Zidoo. It works great with the Xpand 3D glasses. However, it still loses sync every now and then. Not sure if this happens with the blu-ray disk. Will test it. Btw, Aquaman 3D looks incredible with dark deep colors and amazing contrast in dark scenes. I feel like I’m watching a new movie. Not sure if you’ve watched the 3D version but definitely watch it…some of the best 3D I’ve seen..right there with Avatar. Hope the 3D is working on your unit.



Do you have other lights in the room? Not sure why you lose sync unless you're sitting very far away or some kind of interference. It's multiple makes and models so I'm assuming something local to your setup. I haven't had sync issues in...10 years maybe?


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Do you have other lights in the room? Not sure why you lose sync unless you're sitting very far away or some kind of interference. It's multiple makes and models so I'm assuming something local to your setup. I haven't had sync issues in...10 years maybe?


It’s definitely possible🤔. I work while I play (testing the projector) as well so could be my environment and with all the lights on.😀 Will try to watch in the dark next time and close to the screen and see what happens. Thx.


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> I had the same issue, but I can turn off the screen. Not sure what the commonality is and why it's happening try us but not Dgtr74. Let's try to isolate it.


Try to play a 3D blu-ray disk if you can and see if it still happens. On the Zidoo, I have quite a few ISOs that won’t play at all.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> Try to play a 3D blu-ray disk if you can and see if it still happens. On the Zidoo, I have quite a few ISOs that won’t play at all.


You mean they won't play now with the Beta or they've never worked?


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> You mean they won't play now with the Beta or they've never worked?


They’ve never worked even before I updated to enhanced black. I believe it could be either the files or the Zidoo. I have to see if there’s another good player out there besides the Zidoo so I can test.


----------



## Dgtr74

Just to add and hope it will help the both of you troubleshoot and perhaps report to AWOL, the 3500 I have currently is one of the first ones that was produced and I had to manually update to 3D and Enhanced black with the custom remote. Not sure who else is impacted but everything on mine still works like normal after the enhanced black update. Maybe see if some of the beta testers on Facebook can test as well and report it.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> Just to add and hope it will help the both of you troubleshoot and perhaps report to AWOL, the 3500 I have currently is one of the first ones that was produced and I had to manually update to 3D and Enhanced black with the custom remote. Not sure who else is impacted but everything on mine still works like normal after the enhanced black update. Maybe see if some of the beta testers on Facebook can test as well and report it.


Mine is an early one too from April I think. Had to manually update the DLP and MCU firmware as well.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> They’ve never worked even before I updated to enhanced black. I believe it could be either the files or the Zidoo. I have to see if there’s another good player out there besides the Zidoo so I can test.


I have some old 3D Blu-ray's like that too. They will play the video though, but will not load the menu.


----------



## Brajesh

It looks like there is an issue with 3D with the beta f/w. Love that AWOL is on the ball with this…



> Our engineers have confirmed that the beta version is conflicting with the 3D feature – the team is working hard to fix it.
> 
> They shared with us that you have to go to Manual Correction, reset it, keystone correct your projector, and then you can use the 3D and Keystone Correction normally.


Happy to take this to PM/DM group chat if you all want.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> It looks like there is an issue with 3D with the beta f/w. Love that AWOL is on the ball with this…
> 
> 
> 
> Happy to take this to PM/DM group chat if you all want.


Makes sense why I don’t have this issue. I did the manual correction after updating.


----------



## Dave Harper

arsenalfc89 said:


> Yeah I’m starting to see that the highlights still pop with the lower black level and to me is the most impressive part. I honestly was expecting the whole image to just get dimmer.


I’m sure they’re utilizing some sort of gamma manipulation in concert with the laser dimming, which gives this effect. 



ProjectionHead said:


> Pretty encouraging! I’ve got two ltv-3500 units here; plan on putting one with enhanced contrast directly next to the one that we don’t update with the beta to do an at-the-same-time comparison once I have time after the dust settles from Black Friday/Cyber Week.


Damn, I want to be there for that!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> It looks like there is an issue with 3D with the beta f/w. Love that AWOL is on the ball with this…
> 
> 
> 
> Happy to take this to PM/DM group chat if you all want.


Ah! There it is. Yeah they seem to be aware of and already fixing the issues we are seeing thus far.


----------



## brokenconduit

I don't have my projector yet but curious when I get it, isn't 3D and enhanced Black supposed to be a firmware update in the end? Or will I also have to get some special remote? Thanks!


----------



## Kev1000000

Has anyone been able to enable Android Debug Bridge (ADB) on the AWOL? I want to use it to automate turning the projector on and off, but I can't figure out how to enable ADB.


----------



## adrift

brokenconduit said:


> I don't have my projector yet but curious when I get it, isn't 3D and enhanced Black supposed to be a firmware update in the end? Or will I also have to get some special remote? Thanks!


3D should be installed already on newer projectors that have been sent out. Enhanced blacks will likely be an online firmware update, yes. As well as the Dolby Vision update.


----------



## brokenconduit

adrift said:


> 3D should be installed already on newer projectors that have been sent out. Enhanced blacks will likely be an online firmware update, yes. As well as the Dolby Vision update.


Thanks! What is the reasoning whenever they do these Betas to send out custom remotes? Just for my knowledge.


----------



## Rafic8

Hi
Just got my 3500..
What will be the recommended glasses for 3d?
Thanks


----------



## adrift

brokenconduit said:


> Thanks! What is the reasoning whenever they do these Betas to send out custom remotes? Just for my knowledge.


I'm not certain. So far it's only happened for some machines that did not have 3D, and for this current enhanced black beta. I'm assuming it has something to do with isolating and patching individual projectors without affecting all machines with a universal update.


----------



## adrift

Rafic8 said:


> Hi
> Just got my 3500..
> What will be the recommended glasses for 3d?
> Thanks


I believe AWOL themselves recommend the Elephas DLP, active shutter glasses, but you can purchase the cheaper Boblov DLP glasses. They appear to be the exact same glasses with different branding. You also might want to check out the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R glasses which are more comfortable, and aren't quite as dark as the Boblov's. They've been heavily recommended on both the AVS forum and here.


----------



## Rafic8

adrift said:


> I believe AWOL themselves recommend the Elephas DLP, active shutter glasses, but you can purchase the cheaper Boblov DLP glasses. They appear to be the exact same glasses with different branding. You also might want to check out the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R glasses which are more comfortable, and aren't quite as dark as the Boblov's. They've been heavily recommended on both the AVS forum and here.


Thanks.. 
This is OK?


----------



## adrift

Rafic8 said:


> Thanks..
> This is OK?
> View attachment 3369570


Yep, those will work. There's a button at the top of the glasses that you'll want to click to connect the glasses. Click it again and it'll change from left-eyed filter to right-eyed filter, which is convenient. There's a setting in the AWOL 3D settings that do this as well, but it's more convenient to do them from the glasses.


----------



## Marc D Carra

brokenconduit said:


> I don't have my projector yet but curious when I get it, isn't 3D and enhanced Black supposed to be a firmware update in the end? Or will I also have to get some special remote? Thanks!


I have the same question. If mine is coming from ProjectorScreens, will I still need a special remote to activate the 3D? I'm hoping to enjoy 3D when I get it by downloading an update, and not have to wait another couple weeks for something else to arrive to Canada. Maybe @Dave Harper or @ProjectionHead can answer this? Is your current stock 3D upgradeable without the need of a special remote?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Marc D Carra said:


> I have the same question. If mine is coming from ProjectorScreens, will I still need a special remote to activate the 3D? I'm hoping to enjoy 3D when I get it by downloading an update, and not have to wait another couple weeks for something else to arrive to Canada. Maybe @Dave Harper or @ProjectionHead can answer this? Is your current stock 3D upgradeable without the need of a special remote?


Special remote is to access beta testing options; once it is a final release (as 3D is now) you won't need anything special


----------



## Marc D Carra

ProjectionHead said:


> Special remote is to access beta testing options; once it is a final release (as 3D is now) you won't need anything special


Thanks Brian! You've been tremendously helpful in getting me set up with my new 3500 and Vividstorm screen. I really appreciate the fantastic customer service!👍👍


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ProjectionHead said:


> Special remote is to access beta testing options; once it is a final release (as 3D is now) you won't need anything special


This is likely true for newer units only. It depends on the DLP and MCU version. 

When the OTA update for 3D was released some couldn't use it without the remote and DLP/MCU software on a PC; in fact I wasn't able to participate in the 3D beta because my DLP and MCU versions were old and at that time they didn't have the remotes and software ready to send out.

Just know that if 3D is enabled on your AWOL you'll be able to update to the OTA of Ehanced Black without any special remote or PC software. If not, you'll get the support you need and AWOL is very responsive.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dave Harper said:


> I’m sure they’re utilizing some sort of gamma manipulation in concert with the laser dimming, which gives this effect.


Even if it is gamma how is it just as bright if the laser is being dimmed? Visibly the brighter points of the image look indistinguishable whether Enhanced Black is engaged or not.


----------



## Brajesh

Kev1000000 said:


> Has anyone been able to enable Android Debug Bridge (ADB) on the AWOL? I want to use it to automate turning the projector on and off, but I can't figure out how to enable ADB.


No, but have been able to use HDMI-CEC on nVidia Shield to turn AWOL on & off. Also got it working w/Harmony (although these remotes are dying w/Logitech out of this business) to power & control it via BT. You can add AWOL as a Mac computer device, then continue to create an activity w/it, which lets you add Harmony as a BT device on AWOL's list of BT devices.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> No, but have been able to use HDMI-CEC on nVidia Shield to turn AWOL on & off. Also got it working w/Harmony (although these remotes are dying w/Logitech out of this business) to power & control it via BT. You can add AWOL as a Mac computer device, then continue to create an activity w/it, which lets you add Harmony as a BT device on AWOL's list of BT devices.


😱 not Harmony! I love mine. Sadness. 😥


----------



## je55ter

Just got my LTV-2500 and I'm having trouble setting up the included FireTV stick. The setup asks what brand of TV its connected to but AWOL isn't an option, and I can't seem to get it to control the projector's speaker volume.

Also, I've never set up one of these dongle streaming devices before. I have a wired network cable running to the projector itself, but the Fire stick had me connect via wireless. Is this thing going to do all of its streaming over wireless, or will it use the wired connection on the projector somehow?


----------



## Marc D Carra

je55ter said:


> Just got my LTV-2500 and I'm having trouble setting up the included FireTV stick. The setup asks what brand of TV its connected to but AWOL isn't an option, and I can't seem to get it to control the projector's speaker volume.
> 
> Also, I've never set up one of these dongle streaming devices before. I have a wired network cable running to the projector itself, but the Fire stick had me connect via wireless. Is this thing going to do all of its streaming over wireless, or will it use the wired connection on the projector somehow?


The Firestick's network connection is separate from the Awol. It has no way of detecting or using the ethernet connection on the Awol projector. You will need to use your wireless network to connect independently to the Firestick.


----------



## Dave Harper

Casey_Bryson said:


> Even if it is gamma how is it just as bright if the laser is being dimmed? Visibly the brighter points of the image look indistinguishable whether Enhanced Black is engaged or not.


You’d be surprised what playing with gamma can do!

It can make the whites appear as if they’re just as bright because the black floor has lowered and contrast increased, fooling your eyes into thinking it’s the same peak white level. 

The only way to really tell is to actually measure it.


----------



## Pussqunt

I just received my 3500 today.

First impression is the image is very bright. Set up on wall in room with poor light control as moving in a month (I have a ALR screen comming for the new place). Even so, lights pop!

I am impressed with motion smoothing. Watched for an hour on medium smoothing. I noticed no halo or banding. But I found a frame or two of noise in the shadowed edge of lamp table. Due screen size, I used high smoothing to remove judder for slow moving content like Our Plant. Most of the bird scenes were less noisy with smoothing on high than with it off! 

I have mine projecting 85" (will got to 120" with ALR screen). I have noticed very minor red and green fringing around the edges of white text. But mine arrived with a significant quality control issue that could be related. I have reached out to the seller. From what I have read here I am sure they will fix it so no need to share. I will update if fringing is present once sorted.

Inbuilt speakers loud. Sounded horrible, voices muffled, equaliser way too aggressive, until I turned on Atmos. They now sound both better and clearer than my sound bar! Bye bye subtitles! 

I love the lack of local dimming. Blacks appear wall colour, or when surrounded by bright colour, black, and I have only used this so far with blinds drawn! I can't wait for night with a proper screen!

I have perceived a rainbow effect randomly in video. May be due to above fringing as bright zones in static images are sparkly.

I can see pixels almost at 3 metres even at 85" with a slightly blured image. But this is more to do with my eyes. Pixels are significantly less perceivable than on my 75" QDOT LCD TV and not noticable in motion.

Except for the quality control issue, I am extremely impressed. This projector far surpassed my expectations. You tube videos do not do it justice!


----------



## liborhabrnal

adrift said:


> I believe AWOL themselves recommend the Elephas DLP, active shutter glasses, but you can purchase the cheaper Boblov DLP glasses. They appear to be the exact same glasses with different branding. You also might want to check out the Xpand X105-DLP-X1-R glasses which are more comfortable, and aren't quite as dark as the Boblov's. They've been heavily recommended on both the AVS forum and here.


Hello,





X105-DLP-X1 3D glasses – World Leading Provider of 3D Solutions







xpandvision.com




There is EU office, they can ship from EU (Slovenia) - 50 EUR each.
Just received 4 pcs yesterday.
Write email to [email protected] 
L.


----------



## Pussqunt

liborhabrnal said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> X105-DLP-X1 3D glasses – World Leading Provider of 3D Solutions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xpandvision.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is EU office, they can ship from EU (Slovenia) - 50 EUR each.
> Just received 4 pcs yesterday.
> Write email to [email protected]
> L.


Unfortunately regional Au. I will wait on the sellers response. Sales rep has been an absolute legend so far!


----------



## Brajesh

> @Brajesh Watching Aquaman 3D right now on the Zidoo. It works great with the Xpand 3D glasses. However, it still loses sync every now and then.


Keeping the discussion about 3D issues here as we're already talking about enhanced blacks, and both are a result of the beta f/w. E-mailed AWOL on 3D as the projector is constantly synching & un-synching, and constantly left/right eye switching. It can't seem to remain synched. The beta f/w definitely introduced some bug(s). Tested w/Zidoo Z9X and Vero 4K+, and 4 types of DLP-Link glasses.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dave Harper said:


> You’d be surprised what playing with gamma can do!
> 
> It can make the whites appear as if they’re just as bright because the black floor has lowered and contrast increased, fooling your eyes into thinking it’s the same peak white level.
> 
> The only way to really tell is to actually measure it.


I guess it's all relative--Pretty cool if that's the case. Would love to see some measurements.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Keeping the discussion about 3D issues here as we're already talking about enhanced blacks, and both are a result of the beta f/w. E-mailed AWOL on 3D as the projector is constantly synching & un-synching, and constantly left/right eye switching. It can't seem to remain synched. The beta f/w definitely introduced some bug(s). Tested w/Zidoo Z9X and Vero 4K+, and 4 types of DLP-Link glasses.


I'll test mine tonight.


----------



## Rafic8

1.Is there a reason that the projector Is not centered to the screen in order to get full screen. ( I have to place it few inches to the left) can I adjust it? 
2.What is the best way to do focus? 
3. Can someone please share his settings with 120" vivid storm? 
Thanks


----------



## Johnathan Jackson

ProjectionHead said:


> Thank you very much Larry! Please DM me with your order # so I can flag you as an AVSFroum VIP


I ordered a Da-Lite Parallax Thin Screen from you guys. Could I also get the VIP treatment?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Johnathan Jackson said:


> I ordered a Da-Lite Parallax Thin Screen from you guys. Could I also get the VIP treatment?


Gladly 
Shoot me a DM with your order number!
Thanks 🥰


----------



## Johnathan Jackson

ProjectionHead said:


> Gladly
> Shoot me a DM with your order number!
> Thanks 🥰


 Done!


----------



## adrift

This has to be some sort of bot or something. That's an image of my room that I posted on AWOL's Facebook page, and it looks like it's posting the same paragraph with different photos in a number of different threads here.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

adrift said:


> This has to be some sort of bot or something. That's an image of my room that I posted on AWOL's Facebook page, and it looks like it's posting the same paragraph with different photos in a number of different threads here.


I reported it


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Keeping the discussion about 3D issues here as we're already talking about enhanced blacks, and both are a result of the beta f/w. E-mailed AWOL on 3D as the projector is constantly synching & un-synching, and constantly left/right eye switching. It can't seem to remain synched. The beta f/w definitely introduced some bug(s). Tested w/Zidoo Z9X and Vero 4K+, and 4 types of DLP-Link glasses.





Casey_Bryson said:


> I'll test mine tonight.


Same here with Beta firmware. It happens more frequently when the laser dims and as soon as you bring up the menu to disengage laser dimming/Enhanced Black it re-syncs. Less frequently (once every 5 min) with Enhanced Black off in Soft Light Mode. I tested with 4 different brands of glasses, all charged, light controlled room. 

I'll e-mail as well.


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Same here with Beta firmware. It happens more frequently when the laser dims and as soon as you bring up the menu to disengage laser dimming/Enhanced Black it re-syncs. Less frequently (once every 5 min) with Enhanced Black off in Soft Light Mode. I tested with 4 different brands of glasses, all charged, light controlled room.
> 
> I'll e-mail as well.


Has anyone had a chance to test if this happens with playback from actual 3D Blu-ray Discs vs playing titles from the Zidoo? I’ve been busy with work this week and have not gotten a chance to fire up the projector. However, I remember playing a title from a blu-ray player last week and there was no noticeable issues. Will test when I get a chance late tonight.


----------



## Dgtr74

As a side note, really excited for the VE UST shootout tomorrow. I contacted AWOL to see if they were even aware of this event a few days ago and if they can get their “Enhanced Black” beta to the event coordinators. This is their response below. The AWOL should excel in every testing environment if it has the Enhanced Black firmware installed. All projectors will be “calibrated” accordingly. With calibration, the AWOL loses very little brightness so should be very interesting to see the results. 

Hi,
Thank you for sharing this information. Our team has reached out to him and are waiting for a response.
Thanks again,


AWOL
V I S I O N​*AWOL Vision Customer Support

Phone* 800-659-5235
*Web: *www.awolvision.com
*Email* : [email protected]
9169 W Atlantic Ave Suite 118, Delray Beach, FL


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> Has anyone had a chance to test if this happens with playback from actual 3D Blu-ray Discs vs playing titles from the Zidoo? I’ve been busy with work this week and have not gotten a chance to fire up the projector. However, I remember playing a title from a blu-ray player last week and there was no noticeable issues. Will test when I get a chance late tonight.


Should make zero difference.


----------



## Marc D Carra

I got my 3500 set up tonight. It already had the firmware update for 3D support installed. It also prompted me to install a new update. It wasn't for enhanced black levels so what did it do?? Anybody know?


----------



## Dgtr74

Marc D Carra said:


> I got my 3500 set up tonight. It already had the firmware update for 3D support installed. It also prompted me to install a new update. It wasn't for enhanced black levels so what did it do?? Anybody know?


Hey Marc, congrats on receiving your unit! Have you tested the 3D feature and it’s working? Can you confirm your DLP and MCU version numbers?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Should make zero difference.


Yep, confirmed the same. Just watched a part of Avatar 3D blu-ray on my Sony 3D player with the Xpands. It did go out of sync occasionally. Wasn’t bad but should not be happening.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> Hey Marc, congrats on receiving your unit! Have you tested the 3D feature and it’s working? Can you confirm your DLP and MCU version numbers?


Thanks! Yeah, the 3D looks fantastic! I will check the DLP and MCU version numbers tomorrow for you.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> Hey Marc, congrats on receiving your unit! Have you tested the 3D feature and it’s working? Can you confirm your DLP and MCU version numbers?


Here they are. I'm still struggling to get the geometry perfect on my screen. I guess a floor rising screen wasn't ideal when my basement floor isn't perfectly level!


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Marc D Carra said:


> Here they are. I'm still struggling to get the geometry perfect on my screen. I guess a floor rising screen wasn't ideal when my basement floor isn't perfectly level!
> View attachment 3371129


Deleted


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> 3D should be greyed out/disabled. You'll need DLP 33 and MCU 18 to make it work. I'd e-mail support for your remote.


I think DLP 33 and MCU 18 is only needed for enhanced black. DLP 28 MCU 15 was needed for 3D. The 3D is working on his unit.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Dgtr74 said:


> I think DLP 33 and MCU 18 is only needed for enhanced black. DLP 28 MCU 15 was needed for 3D. The 3D is working on his unit.


I have a unit with DLP version of 32 and the MCU version of 24 with 3D enabled and working on it.

Will enhanced black also be available for my unit?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> I think DLP 33 and MCU 18 is only needed for enhanced black. DLP 28 MCU 15 was needed for 3D. The 3D is working on his unit.


Whoops you're right thanks for the correction. I had DLP 27 and MCU 14 and when I updated them for 3D (with the remote) they were to 33 and 18 respectively so I didn't have to update it again for Enhanced Black Beta IIRC.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

luisenriquereyes said:


> I have a unit with DLP version of 32 and the MCU version of 24 with 3D enabled and working on it.
> 
> Will enhanced black also be available for my unit?


2500 or 3500?


----------



## Marc D Carra

Casey_Bryson said:


> 3D should be greyed out/disabled. You'll need DLP 33 and MCU 18 to make it work. I'd e-mail support for your remote.


The 3D was enabled out of the box. It looks spectacular. I guess I'll need to wait for the regular public update to get the enhancement blacks working. No rush, I still have hundreds of sealed 3D blurays I haven't even watched yet. It's gonna take me awhile.

Is there a way to bring up the hours of operation on the projector? My Epson LS12000 had and information screen that showed the amount of hours. It would come in handy eventually since these laser projectors have a finite amount of usage.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Casey_Bryson said:


> 2500 or 3500?


2500


----------



## Casey_Bryson

luisenriquereyes said:


> 2500


IIRC the DLP/MCU versions don't match up with the 3500 versions. I think this is due to the different TI DLP controller chipset between the two and likely explains why they don't have Enhanced Blacks ready for the 2500. They probably share the same DMD (.47 TE version). It would be nice to know for sure rather than speculate.


----------



## adrift

There's some sort of auto feature in my picture's color and contrast that's annoying me that I'm not certain how to turn off. It's especially noticable in hdr, where lighter areas (especially noticable on people's faces) look overexposed and sometimes the color gets kind of washed out looking. I tried my best to take a picture of this, but it's complicated because when I pause video I can literally see the image revert to more natural lighting and colors. I thought it might be tied to Dynamic Contact, but turning that off doesn't seem to fix the issue. Anyone have any ideas?




















Edit: Nevermind, I figured it out. It looks like it was the Light Mode in light settings set to Low Dynamic which was causing this. Setting it to Standard seems to fix the issue.


----------



## Dgtr74

I didn’t get a chance to watch the VE UST shootout but heard the AWOL came in 2nd…which is a great accomplishment! Considering the event only tested the projectors in a completely dark room and mainly using the Spears&Munsil disc. I don’t know if the AWOL had the enhanced black update or not (heard it had to be a sealed unit so maybe not) but super impressed either way considering how bright the 3500 is! If the event coordinators had taken into account ambient light performance (LaserTV category), the 3500 would‘ve been untouchable.  I heard the LG had the upper hand when it came to its built in dynamic tone mapping, which allowed it to process the 4000 and 10,000 nit clips on the S&M disc. Not sure if this is something the AWOL can do as well with a firmware update, perhaps when Dolby Vision hits.
IMO, the LG will need to get 3D added, be brighter, and decrease its lag for gaming before it can equal the 3500, which I think is still the best overall feature packed Tri-laser for every situation on the market. If another manufacturer can create a projector with more horsepower than 3500 and with more features/pic quality.. then that will be extremely positive as competition will only lead to better innovations in this space.

Note: None of the projectors were calibrated and they were not using ALR screens. Since this was a dark room competition, black levels was the biggest factor. It’s unclear if the 3500 was running the beta.


----------



## Dgtr74

adrift said:


> There's some sort of auto feature in my picture's color and contrast that's annoying me that I'm not certain how to turn off. It's especially noticable in hdr, where lighter areas (especially noticable on people's faces) look overexposed and sometimes the color gets kind of washed out looking. I tried my best to take a picture of this, but it's complicated because when I pause video I can literally see the image revert to more natural lighting and colors. I thought it might be tied to Dynamic Contact, but turning that off doesn't seem to fix the issue. Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> View attachment 3371286
> 
> 
> View attachment 3371287


I believe you may be using High/Low Dynamic light setting. There’s a bug with the white balance and that will be fixed with the enhanced black update. I solved that by only using standard or bright setting. I leave “Dynamic Contrast“ on though in the picture settings.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> I believe you may be using High/Low Dynamic light setting. There’s a bug with the white balance and that will be fixed with the enhanced black update. I solved that by only using standard or bright setting. I leave “Dynamic Contrast“ on though in the picture settings.


Yep, it looks like I figured that out right before you posted. Thanks!


----------



## Eason1983

Dgtr74 said:


> I didn’t get a chance to watch the VE UST shootout but heard the AWOL came in 2nd…which is a great accomplishment! Considering the event only tested the projectors in a completely dark room and mainly using the Spears&Munsil disc. I don’t know if the AWOL had the enhanced black update or not (heard it had to be a sealed unit so maybe not) but super impressed either way considering how bright the 3500 is! If the event coordinators had taken into account ambient light performance (LaserTV category), the 3500 would‘ve been untouchable. I heard the LG had the upper hand when it came to its built in dynamic tone mapping, which allowed it to process the 4000 and 10,000 nit clips on the S&M disc. Not sure if this is something the AWOL can do as well with a firmware update, perhaps when Dolby Vision hits.
> IMO, the LG will need to get 3D added, be brighter, and decrease its lag for gaming before it can equal the 3500, which I think is still the best overall feature packed Tri-laser for every situation on the market. If another manufacturer can create a projector with more horsepower than 3500 and with more features/pic quality.. then that will be extremely positive as competition will only lead to better innovations in this space.


Can u share the test result link？thanks.


----------



## Dgtr74

Eason1983 said:


> Can u share the test result link？thanks.


Shane, one of the event coordinator, took it down but he will put it back up later today after the long-throw competition ends. Top 3 finishers: LG HU915QB, AWOL 3500, Epson LS800


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, confirmed the same. Just watched a part of Avatar 3D blu-ray on my Sony 3D player with the Xpands. It did go out of sync occasionally. Wasn’t bad but should not be happening.


Can I confirm something with you concerning 3D playback?
Were you getting those out of sync moments before you applied the new update to get better blacks?
My old tv would lose sync on occasion with different types of glasses and movies and it was extremely annoying. It would happen even with the blu-ray player connected directly to the tv to eliminate possible hand shake issues. Never figure out what caused it, but that is a no no for me.


----------



## Dgtr74

Nuno Campos said:


> Can I confirm something with you concerning 3D playback?
> Were you getting those out of sync moments before you applied the new update to get better blacks?
> My old tv would lose sync on occasion with different types of glasses and movies and it was extremely annoying. It would happen even with the blu-ray player connected directly to the tv to eliminate possible hand shake issues. Never figure out what caused it, but that is a no no for me.


Absolutely. Before the beta update, I watched several 3D movies in its entirety, including Avatar with the Xpand X105 3D glasses and it was “Perfect”. 3D image and motion was rock solid. AWOL has confirmed there is a bug in the beta that is interfering with the 3D and they are working to correct it. Once that is fixed and thoroughly tested this month it will be released via firmware update.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Shane, one of the event coordinator, took it down but he will put it back up later today after the long-throw competition ends. Top 3 finishers: LG HU915QB, AWOL 3500, Epson LS800


Here’s the link to the scorecard: Best UST Projectors Compete at 2022 Projector Shootout. Here are the Results

Not sure why they used “movie” for SDR and “sport” for HDR on the AWOL but those 2 settings do not look accurate to me out of the box in terms of skin tones...and the scores reflected that. I prefer “standard” if using out of the box. Getting mine professionally calibrated very soon though. Also, the question of brightest projector has been settled, the 3500 is the king of brightness and obviously is the best projector to replace a TV in the living room. Even with all that brightness, it also did very well in terms of black levels and contrast. I always thought the perceived contrast the 3500 outputs even before the enhanced black beta was fantastic on my ALR screen. However, I still cannot confirm if it was running the beta or not at this shootout. Overall, great event. Although, I wish these projectors were calibrated.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dgtr74 said:


> Here’s the link to the scorecard: Best UST Projectors Compete at 2022 Projector Shootout. Here are the Results
> 
> Not sure why they used “movie” for SDR and “sport” for HDR on the AWOL but those 2 settings do not look accurate to me out of the box in terms of skin tones...and the scores reflected that. I prefer “standard” if using out of the box. Getting mine professionally calibrated very soon though. Also, the question of brightest projector has been settled, the 3500 is the king of brightness and obviously is the best projector to replace a TV in the living room. Even with all that brightness, it also did very well in terms of black levels and contrast. I always thought the perceived contrast the 3500 outputs even before the enhanced black beta was fantastic on my ALR screen. However, I still cannot confirm if it was running the beta or not at this shootout. Overall, great event. Although, I wish these projectors were calibrated.


Odd they did this without calibrating considering just how drastic projectors PQ look after the fact. Maybe they chose this route because most do not calibrate their projectors so this may give potential buyers an expectation of what they may be getting out of box.


----------



## Dgtr74

arsenalfc89 said:


> Odd they did this without calibrating considering just how drastic projectors PQ look after the fact. Maybe they chose this route because most do not calibrate their projectors so this may give potential buyers an expectation of what they may be getting out of box.


Yep, I think that’s exactly what their reasoning is. However, if one is to crown a UST King and measuring only picture quality then these projectors needs to be calibrated to show their best picture. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to me.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, I think that’s exactly what their reasoning is. However, if one is to crown a UST King and measuring only picture quality then these projectors needs to be calibrated to show their best picture. Otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to me.


Pointless...comparing random variables for what? So Joe blow can pick a projector that may not be the best?


----------



## Brajesh

Had not gotten HDR10+ to work before, but after feeding my Zidoo Z9X & Vero 4K+ outputs directly through my AVR to AWOL (vs. routing them via HDFury), it worked. Watched UHD's of '1917' & 'Inglourious Basterds' and off Amazon Prime 'The Lost City' and I'm impressed! AWOL does a really nice job with HDR10+. Just as good as DV versions of '1917' & 'The Lost City' when I had Formovie Theater.


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> Had not gotten HDR10+ to work before, but after feeding my Zidoo Z9X & Vero 4K+ outputs directly to my AVR (vs. routing them via HDFury), it worked. Watched UHD's of '1917' & 'Inglourious Basterds' and off Amazon Prime 'The Lost City' and I'm impressed! AWOL does a really nice job with HDR10+. Just as good as DV versions of '1917' & 'The Lost City' when I had Formovie Theater.


How can you tell you're watching HDR10+ as opposed to plain HDR? Does it come up in the info box? I haven't really been paying attention, assuming it was pretty much all the same thing. Also, what's a Vero 4k?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dgtr74 said:


> I didn’t get a chance to watch the VE UST shootout but heard the AWOL came in 2nd…which is a great accomplishment! Considering the event only tested the projectors in a completely dark room and mainly using the Spears&Munsil disc. I don’t know if the AWOL had the enhanced black update or not (heard it had to be a sealed unit so maybe not) but super impressed either way considering how bright the 3500 is! If the event coordinators had taken into account ambient light performance (LaserTV category), the 3500 would‘ve been untouchable. I heard the LG had the upper hand when it came to its built in dynamic tone mapping, which allowed it to process the 4000 and 10,000 nit clips on the S&M disc. Not sure if this is something the AWOL can do as well with a firmware update, perhaps when Dolby Vision hits.
> IMO, the LG will need to get 3D added, be brighter, and decrease its lag for gaming before it can equal the 3500, which I think is still the best overall feature packed Tri-laser for every situation on the market. If another manufacturer can create a projector with more horsepower than 3500 and with more features/pic quality.. then that will be extremely positive as competition will only lead to better innovations in this space.
> 
> Note: None of the projectors were calibrated and they were not using ALR screens. Since this was a dark room competition, black levels was the biggest factor. It’s unclear if the 3500 was running the beta.


I was told by AWOL Vision CEO that they were going to be running the beta.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

adrift said:


> How can you tell you're watching HDR10+ as opposed to plain HDR? Does it come up in the info box? I haven't really been paying attention, assuming it was pretty much all the same thing. Also, what's a Vero 4k?



Here's a review Brajesh did on it a few years ago:



Vero 4K+ Mini-review: The Only Native Kodi 4K + 3D Set-top Player


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> Pointless...comparing random variables for what? So Joe blow can pick a projector that may not be the best?


I get their rationale to some degree. When we do quick “shootouts” of projectors, we do similar out of the box comparisons, but those are just 1v1 for our blog and YouTube.
When it comes to an actual competition and crowning a “king” or winner, with professional and scrutinizing judges, IMHO calibrating the units is what really lets you test a projectors full capabilities against others.
No knock on their competition; they chose to do it one way; we and ProjectorCentral chose another.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Still trying to understand, justify price lol


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dgtr74 said:


> Here’s the link to the scorecard: Best UST Projectors Compete at 2022 Projector Shootout. Here are the Results
> 
> Not sure why they used “movie” for SDR and “sport” for HDR on the AWOL but those 2 settings do not look accurate to me out of the box in terms of skin tones...and the scores reflected that. I prefer “standard” if using out of the box. Getting mine professionally calibrated very soon though. Also, the question of brightest projector has been settled, the 3500 is the king of brightness and obviously is the best projector to replace a TV in the living room. Even with all that brightness, it also did very well in terms of black levels and contrast. I always thought the perceived contrast the 3500 outputs even before the enhanced black beta was fantastic on my ALR screen. However, I still cannot confirm if it was running the beta or not at this shootout. Overall, great event. Although, I wish these projectors were calibrated.


The LG HU915QE wasn’t included which is 3700 lumens, only the QB at 3000 lumens.
We went with the QB at the Showdown because we calibrated the units, but if you weren’t going to calibrate them and need the brightness you may find the QE a top pick.

We plan on putting on the “battle of the brightest” with the Awol 3500, LG HU915QE and Epson LS800 in the near future.


----------



## Brajesh

Hey @Casey_Bryson, had sold my Vero 4K+ in favor of Zidoo Z9X, but decided to just buy it again . The hardware in Vero is getting old now, but it's a nice 'pure' Kodi alternative to Zidoo w/3D & HDR10+ support.


adrift said:


> How can you tell you're watching HDR10+ as opposed to plain HDR? Does it come up in the info box? I haven't really been paying attention, assuming it was pretty much all the same thing. Also, what's a Vero 4k?


Try this test clip. If HDR10+ is truly supported by a display, during the metadata changes, you should notice brightness, contrast & other changes. And, here's another demo clip from NASA to try; looks amazing!


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Hey @Casey_Bryson, had sold my Vero 4K+ in favor of Zidoo Z9X, but decided to just buy it again . The hardware in Vero is getting old now, but it's a nice 'pure' Kodi alternative to Zidoo w/3D & HDR10+ support.
> 
> Try this test clip. If HDR10+ is truly supported by a display, during the metadata changes, you should notice brightness, contrast & other changes. And, here's another demo clip from NASA to try; looks amazing!


@Brajesh I just bought the Dune HD player to test against the Zidoo Z9X. I‘ve had issues with the Zidoo playing my 3D ISOs for awhile now. Not sure if you’ve had any experience or feedback with the Dune HD units. Thx.


----------



## Dgtr74

ProjectionHead said:


> The LG HU915QE wasn’t included which is 3700 lumens, only the QB at 3000 lumens.
> We went with the QB at the Showdown because we calibrated the units, but if you weren’t going to calibrate them and need the brightness you may find the QE a top pick.
> 
> We plan on putting on the “battle of the brightest” with the Awol 3500, LG HU915QE and Epson LS800 in the near future.


That will be awesome! I’m getting my 3500 professionally calibrated. What would also be great to see is if all these brightest USTs get properly calibrated, what amount of lumens will be lost with each unit. Thx.


----------



## Dgtr74

ProjectionHead said:


> I was told by AWOL Vision CEO that they were going to be running the beta.


Thx! I kind of figured because it did really well in this area, especially for HDR content. Looking forward to the final firmware update without bugs.


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> @Brajesh I just bought the Dune HD player to test against the Zidoo Z9X. I‘ve had issues with the Zidoo playing my 3D ISOs for awhile now. Not sure if you’ve had any experience or feedback with the Dune HD units. Thx.


Both the latest Dune & Zidoo rely on the same Realtek RTD1619DR SoC, but firmwares are different, so performance could vary. Look forward to your thoughts. Vero 4K+ is excellent w/3D MVC MKV's, but okay/acceptable with ISO's. Seeking & chapter skips are sluggish, but if you play ISO's start to finish, no issues.


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> Hey @Casey_Bryson, had sold my Vero 4K+ in favor of Zidoo Z9X, but decided to just buy it again . The hardware in Vero is getting old now, but it's a nice 'pure' Kodi alternative to Zidoo w/3D & HDR10+ support.
> 
> Try this test clip. If HDR10+ is truly supported by a display, during the metadata changes, you should notice brightness, contrast & other changes. And, here's another demo clip from NASA to try; looks amazing!


Thanks for the sample files! So, yeah, looks like the Nvidia Shield downgrades HDR10+ to HDR10. Looks like I'm going to have to invest in another source if I want the best of all worlds.


----------



## adrift

This is the first display that I've owned with HDR that actually works, so I'm kind of still playing with it. Sometimes it looks absolutely amazing, and sometimes scenes look overexposed and crushed (even after I set Light Mode to standard).

Is that just the nature of HDR?

As an example, here are side by side scenes of an episode of Peripheral in HDR10 and SDR. The show has a sepia-toned filter on most scenes, so that might account for some irregularities. Also my Pixel of course is doing it's own thing, so the pictures are not exactly what the human eye sees, but it should show the difference well enough.

This frame actually looks great with HDR:




























But here you can see HDR adding so much shadowing to the girl's neck that it looks like she's convered in dirt:




























And in this scene the light on the woman's arm, nose, and fingers is all blown out.




























Here, though the frame does look pretty good, it looks like I'm actually losing a bit of detail with the HDR:




























I have everything set to Standard for both HDR and SDR. I do have Dynamic Contrast on, but it doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of difference.

I'm not too bugged out about this and maybe I'm being a little nitpicky but I just thought I'd share what I'm seeing and wanted to see what others think.


----------



## arsenalfc89

adrift said:


> This is the first display that I've owned with HDR that actually works, so I'm kind of still playing with it. Sometimes it looks absolutely amazing, and sometimes scenes look overexposed and crushed (even after I set Light Mode to standard).
> 
> Is that just the nature of HDR?
> 
> As an example, here are side by side scenes of an episode of Peripheral in HDR10 and SDR. The show has a sepia-toned filter on most scenes, so that might account for some irregularities. Also my Pixel of course is doing it's own thing, so the pictures are not exactly what the human eye sees, but it should show the difference well enough.
> 
> This frame actually looks great with HDR:
> 
> View attachment 3371664
> 
> 
> View attachment 3371668
> 
> 
> But here you can see HDR adding so much shadowing to the girl's neck that it looks like she's convered in dirt:
> 
> View attachment 3371670
> 
> 
> View attachment 3371671
> 
> 
> And in this scene the light on the woman's arm, nose, and fingers is all blown out.
> 
> View attachment 3371674
> 
> 
> View attachment 3371675
> 
> 
> Here, though the frame does look pretty good, it looks like I'm actually losing a bit of detail with the HDR:
> 
> View attachment 3371676
> 
> 
> View attachment 3371677
> 
> 
> I have everything set to Standard for both HDR and SDR. I do have Dynamic Contrast on, but it doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of difference.
> 
> I'm not too bugged out about this and maybe I'm being a little nitpicky but I just thought I'd share what I'm seeing and wanted to see what others think.


Are you using Kodi by any chance?


----------



## adrift

arsenalfc89 said:


> Are you using Kodi by any chance?


For this test I was, but I've noticed similar results directly through Amazon Prime.

Edit: Just to rule Kodi out, I'll retest tonight with Amazon Prime and take some photos to see if there's any difference in the HDR shots.


----------



## Brajesh

Noticed similar with all flavors of HDR. Think it depends on how the grading was done, and which colorists/professionals did it and scene-by-scene decisions they made. And of course player, projector and screen factors with us. Lots of variables .


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> Noticed similar with all flavors of HDR. Think it depends on how the grading was done, and which colorists/professionals did it and scene-by-scene decisions they made. And of course player, projector and screen factors with us. Lots of variables .


Interesting. And yeah, you're right, definitely lots of variables. I'll update my results later today to see if streaming directly from Prime itself makes a difference.


----------



## adrift

It looks like the UST shootout is up now:


----------



## Marc D Carra

I have found the the use of my HdFury Vertex2 has noticeablely helped to improve the handling of both HDR and Dolby Vision material on my Awolvision 3500 using my OPPO 230 and Zidoo Z9X as my sources. Excited to see what the enhanced contrast firmware will do. They said December public release?


----------



## Brajesh

Hey Marc, does HDR10+ still work for you on AWOL w/this setup? I assume you're going from Zidoo to HDFury to AVR to AWOL.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Brajesh said:


> Hey Marc, does HDR10+ still work for you on AWOL w/this setup? I assume you're going from Zidoo to HDFury to AVR to AWOL.


Yes, i tested HDR10+ a few nights ago and everything looked great. I'll double check again today.

I just wanted to give some quick comparison between the Epson LS12000 I upgraded (sidegraded) from using a 125" 2.35:1 white screen, and the Awol 3500 with Vividstorm 120" ALR screen.

Biggest improvement: Awol...Colors, Colors, Colors!!! The tri laser is very accurate of the box and looks true to life in everything I have thrown at it. Dramatic difference!

Sharpness...about the same, but the Awol looks more solid with less picture noise , or dancing pixels.

Contrast...Epson wins but it's not night and day, and the intra scene contrast on the Awol is actually better to my eyes. With the new firmware update, I think this with put both projectors on par.

Handshake between resolutions and HDR/SDR....Awol is 2 to 3 times faster in switching over.

Brightness.... this is what surprised me. The Epson LS12000 is a light cannon. I think because I'm using the Awol with a negative gain screen (the Vividstorm ALR), it's actually handicapping the total brightness capability of the Awol in the dark. I may switch to a white screen. I wish I could somehow trade my Vividstorm ALR to a Vividstorm white since most of my viewing is done in the dark.


Finally and a huge advantage on the Awol....3 frikken D!!!! The 3D on the Awolvision 3500 is to die for. I've watched Avatar on probably 8 or 10 high end 3d projectors. This is the pinnacle of the home 3D experience. Bravo Awolvision!
@ProjectionHead


----------



## Dgtr74

Marc D Carra said:


> Yes, i tested HDR10+ a few nights ago and everything looked great. I'll double check again today.
> 
> I just wanted to give some quick comparison between the Epson LS12000 I upgraded (sidegraded) from using a 125" 2.35:1 white screen, and the Awol 3500 with Vividstorm 120" ALR screen.
> 
> Biggest improvement: Awol...Colors, Colors, Colors!!! The tri laser is very accurate of the box and looks true to life in everything I have thrown at it. Dramatic difference!
> 
> Sharpness...about the same, but the Awol looks more solid with less picture noise , or dancing pixels.
> 
> Contrast...Epson wins but it's not night and day, and the intra scene contrast on the Awol is actually better to my eyes. With the new firmware update, I think this with put both projectors on par.
> 
> Handshake between resolutions and HDR/SDR....Awol is 2 to 3 times faster in switching over.
> 
> Brightness.... this is what surprised me. The Epson LS12000 is a light cannon. I think because I'm using the Awol with a negative gain screen (the Vividstorm ALR), it's actually handicapping the total brightness capability of the Awol in the dark. I may switch to a white screen. I wish I could somehow trade my Vividstorm ALR to a Vividstorm white since most of my viewing is done in the dark.
> 
> 
> Finally and a huge advantage on the Awol....3 frikken D!!!! The 3D on the Awolvision 3500 is to die for. I've watched Avatar on probably 8 or 10 high end 3d projectors. This is the pinnacle of the home 3D experience. Bravo Awolvision!
> @ProjectionHead


That’s awesome feedback. Very similar to my experience coming from Epson 5050UB/6050UB. With the AWOL, I put the laser to 10 and use Vivid mode in 3D playback, using the Xpand 3D glasses as well. Yep, definitely pinnacle 3D experience for me as well. I’m still getting plenty of brightness though even with the significant negative gain on the 120” ALR. My 150” ALR just shipped so will be testing that when I get it but I already saw a clip of it being tested with ambient light and the AWOL with all it’s brightness horsepower was able to light it up easily (day or night). Combined with the enhanced contrast update, the 3500 will have me set for the next few years until the next major UST technology breakthrough comes around and someone can make a full-featured UST like the AWOL that will produce a huge upgrade in results. Hard to imagine with how good the 3500 is already. However, my wallet will be ready when that happens😎.

Update: Recently backed the Screeneo U5 for the heck of it and b/c it has 3D/DV and pretty cheap right now. Will be using it with the 120” and see how it goes when it’s available. Will do an image and 3D comparison. Definitely, it’s not bright enough for me but will be using it in a dark room so let’s see.

@Marc D Carra  - what is your picture settings? The picture setting can have a dramatic impact on brightness/punchiness of the image as well on the ALR screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Marc D Carra said:


> Yes, i tested HDR10+ a few nights ago and everything looked great. I'll double check again today.
> 
> I just wanted to give some quick comparison between the Epson LS12000 I upgraded (sidegraded) from using a 125" 2.35:1 white screen, and the Awol 3500 with Vividstorm 120" ALR screen.
> 
> Biggest improvement: Awol...Colors, Colors, Colors!!! The tri laser is very accurate of the box and looks true to life in everything I have thrown at it. Dramatic difference!
> 
> Sharpness...about the same, but the Awol looks more solid with less picture noise , or dancing pixels.
> 
> Contrast...Epson wins but it's not night and day, and the intra scene contrast on the Awol is actually better to my eyes. With the new firmware update, I think this with put both projectors on par.
> 
> Handshake between resolutions and HDR/SDR....Awol is 2 to 3 times faster in switching over.
> 
> Brightness.... this is what surprised me. The Epson LS12000 is a light cannon. I think because I'm using the Awol with a negative gain screen (the Vividstorm ALR), it's actually handicapping the total brightness capability of the Awol in the dark. I may switch to a white screen. I wish I could somehow trade my Vividstorm ALR to a Vividstorm white since most of my viewing is done in the dark.
> 
> 
> Finally and a huge advantage on the Awol....3 frikken D!!!! The 3D on the Awolvision 3500 is to die for. I've watched Avatar on probably 8 or 10 high end 3d projectors. This is the pinnacle of the home 3D experience. Bravo Awolvision!
> @ProjectionHead


Awesome Marc, I am glad that you are so happy with it!


----------



## erufael

does anyone know if you can disable the “you are too close” sensor on the LTV-3500? I need to put my projector behind a cabinet.


----------



## ufokillerz

erufael said:


> does anyone know if you can disable the “you are too close” sensor on the LTV-3500? I need to put my projector behind a cabinet.


yes its in the settings


----------



## erufael

ufokillerz said:


> yes its in the settings


 Thanks, I’m not at home at the moment, but I’ll check it out as soon as I get back.


----------



## brokenconduit

ProjectionHead said:


> Awesome Marc, I am glad that you are so happy with it!


Me next, me next! I want the happiness!


----------



## ProjectionHead

brokenconduit said:


> Me next, me next! I want the happiness!


----------



## adrift

adrift said:


> For this test I was, but I've noticed similar results directly through Amazon Prime.
> 
> Edit: Just to rule Kodi out, I'll retest tonight with Amazon Prime and take some photos to see if there's any difference in the HDR shots.


Okay well I feel a little bit embarrassed. I should have thought to grab images from the original source in the first place, so thanks arsenalfc for mentioning that. 

I've gone ahead and added pictures from the Amazon Prime stream to my previous post between the Kodi SDR and HDR shots. The images are much closer to the original SDR which I was surprised to see, but the info button is saying that I'm running at 4K HDR 10. Regardless, they look much better than the previous HDR shots.


----------



## Brajesh

For those of you w/HDFury, you'll want to check out a this nifty discovery by @Dave Harper & a couple of others.


----------



## invader zog

My unit just arrived today. There is a bit of “sag” in the middle of the projection like someone pinched the middle bottom and top bottom of the screen. Is this a problem with my screen install? If so, I assume keystone is the only choice?

I watched a bit of Avatar in 3D and am on my way to the theater to see the sequel now.What a wonderful experience! I had one of the few passive 3D TVs that could display full resolution 3D, but everything seems crisper and cleaner even though the screen is 100”.

I did experience some left/right eye 3D issues and had to click the button on my glasses to swap eyes a few times. Is that a known issue or a failing of my 3D glasses?


----------



## adrift

invader zog said:


> My unit just arrived today. There is a bit of “sag” in the middle of the projection like someone pinched the middle bottom and top bottom of the screen. Is this a problem with my screen install? If so, I assume keystone is the only choice?
> 
> I watched a bit of Avatar in 3D and am on my way to the theater to see the sequel now.What a wonderful experience! I had one of the few passive 3D TVs that could display full resolution 3D, but everything seems crisper and cleaner even though the screen is 100”.
> 
> I did experience some left/right eye 3D issues and had to click the button on my glasses to swap eyes a few times. Is that a known issue or a failing of my 3D glasses?


What sort of screen are you using? Because USTs sit so close to the screen, they need to be stretched, or else they show up all the imperfections, waves, creases, etc.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your glasses. Some glasses have a feature that allows users to switch between right eye and left eye preference. Without this feature you have to do the switching for some movies in the protector's 3D settings.


----------



## invader zog

adrift said:


> What sort of screen are you using? Because USTs sit so close to the screen, they need to be stretched, or else they show up all the imperfections, waves, creases, etc.
> 
> I don't think there's anything wrong with your glasses. Some glasses have a feature that allows users to switch between right eye and left eye preference. Without this feature you have to do the switching for some movies in the protector's 3D settings.


It is an elite screen clr3 (103” .6 gain) in a fixed frame. 

I haven’t measured the sag, but am going to guess it is a little less than in inch. I will get a grid up and snap a photo.

with respect to the glasses, my concern was that I had to hit the button mid movie (like it somehow flipped). I recall reading someone describing something similar, but it was in the context of the new firmware update.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Brajesh said:


> For those of you w/HDFury, you'll want to check out a this nifty discovery by @Dave Harper & a couple of others.


What is gained with these configurations on the HDFury?


----------



## paragmoon

are there any options for streaming 3d movies on awol 3500?. quite a few folks on this forum have a decent collection of 3d movies which i dont have; hence the question.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

paragmoon said:


> are there any options for streaming 3d movies on awol 3500?. quite a few folks on this forum have a decent collection of 3d movies which i dont have; hence the question.


Vudu, but it's half resolution--trust me you don't want to go there. Rent from https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/default.asp
Plans start at 9 a month for 2, but you can get up to 16 for 52 bucks. I used their service for over a year and they were great!


----------



## Dave Harper

luisenriquereyes said:


> What is gained with these configurations on the HDFury?


The best tone mapping and image quality with this LLDV solution yet!


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Dave Harper said:


> The best tone mapping and image quality with this LLDV solution yet!


Out of the top end HDFury products, which is a better fit for our AWOL projectors? The Vertex2, DIVA or VRROOM?


----------



## Brajesh

VRROOM is perhaps the most future-proof of those, but for AWOL use, don't think it matters. There's no 8K, or even 4K/120, on any of the UST's on the market.


----------



## jt16

I'm just starting to think about moving on from a 75" Sony 940E LED TV. One main question I have is concerning UST screens... The price ranges seem to be massive. Is there a real, noticeable difference b/n a $2,500 screen and a $5,000 screen? Any guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers.


----------



## Dave Harper

jt16 said:


> I'm just starting to think about moving on from a 75" Sony 940E LED TV. One main question I have is concerning UST screens... The price ranges seem to be massive. Is there a real, noticeable difference b/n a $2,500 screen and a $5,000 screen? Any guidance would be much appreciated. Cheers.


@ProjectionHead is the best person to answer that question!


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> Vudu, but it's half resolution--trust me you don't want to go there. Rent from https://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com/default.asp
> Plans start at 9 a month for 2, but you can get up to 16 for 52 bucks. I used their service for over a year and they were great!


On that note, what is the best 3D capable Blu-Ray player to work well with the AWOL? Will my Playstation 5 or Xbox Series X handle those fine?


----------



## Brajesh

From what I've read, neither game consoles support 3D Blu-ray, only 2D playback.


----------



## brokenconduit

Brajesh said:


> From what I've read, neither game consoles support 3D Blu-ray, only 2D playback.


What do you all recommend for a 3D Blu Ray player?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> What do you all recommend for a 3D Blu Ray player?


Hard drive wise you can't get much better than a Zidoo Z9x. You have a lot of control over depth on the z-plane and it's the best I've seen depth wise--probably the most important factor when looking at a player. It also spoofs Dolby Vision EDID's for LLDV support (necessary for AWOL) and plays just about every format you can think of. Most of us have it. I can't recommend going that route enough. Use MakeMKV to backup/rip to a HDD. Support Random Space Media and all new released 3D discs.

I don't have a recommendation for disc based other than an,Oppo--hard to go wrong there though there are some Panasonic models that compare.


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> Hard drive wise you can't get much better than a Zidoo Z9x. You have a lot of control over depth on the z-plane and it's the best I've seen depth wise--probably the most important factor when looking at a player. It also spoofs Dolby Vision EDID's for LLDV support (necessary for AWOL) and plays just about every format you can think of. Most of us have it. I can't recommend going that route enough. Use MakeMKV to backup/rip to a HDD. Support Random Space Media and all new released 3D discs.
> 
> I don't have a recommendation for disc based other than an,Oppo--hard to go wrong there though there are some Panasonic models that compare.


When you say hard drive, you mean playing off of Plex or PC server?


----------



## adrift

Brajesh said:


> Hey @Casey_Bryson, had sold my Vero 4K+ in favor of Zidoo Z9X, but decided to just buy it again . The hardware in Vero is getting old now, but it's a nice 'pure' Kodi alternative to Zidoo w/3D & HDR10+ support.
> 
> Try this test clip. If HDR10+ is truly supported by a display, during the metadata changes, you should notice brightness, contrast & other changes. And, here's another demo clip from NASA to try; looks amazing!


I just grabbed a Vero 4K+ to mess around with. Sounds pretty cool, and looks like it does a few things that my current Nvidia Shield tube can't (minus Dolby Vision, which it sounds like they're working on for a future update). Not too expensive either. Thanks for bringing these media devices to our attention in thread.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Brajesh said:


> VRROOM is perhaps the most future-proof of those, but for AWOL use, don't think it matters. There's no 8K, or even 4K/120, on any of the UST's on the market.


Just ordered one on monday Brajesh I'm goin deep in this rabbit hole.


----------



## Brajesh

How deep you go w/HDFury is up to you (real deep for experts like @Dave Harper, @markswift2003 & others), but I'm good at staying at _copying/pasting or following outlined steps_ level


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> When you say hard drive, you mean playing off of Plex or PC server?


No it plays through the Zidoo which connects to your AWOL via HDMI. You can connect your external drive directly to the Zidoo or configure it to connect via ethernet/wifi to your PC or NAS etc...

Zidoo does have the ability to download posters just like Plex does if you want it to look fancy.


----------



## Brajesh

You can alternatively use ZDMC (Zidoo's Kodi fork). And, there's now a Plex client for Zidoo as well.


----------



## erufael

Does anyone know if you can have the LTV-3500 default to last used hdmi port or simply default to hdmi2 and ignore/turn off Hdmi1?


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Brajesh said:


> How deep you go w/HDFury is up to you (real deep for experts like @Dave Harper, @markswift2003 & others), but I'm good at staying at _copying/pasting or following outlined steps_ level
> View attachment 3373290


That's probably gonna be as deep as I go as well. I already have those posts saved for when it shows up.


----------



## avkevin

erufael said:


> Does anyone know if you can have the LTV-3500 default to last used hdmi port or simply default to hdmi2 and ignore/turn off Hdmi1?


General > power setting > default source


----------



## Dgtr74

Casey_Bryson said:


> Hard drive wise you can't get much better than a Zidoo Z9x. You have a lot of control over depth on the z-plane and it's the best I've seen depth wise--probably the most important factor when looking at a player. It also spoofs Dolby Vision EDID's for LLDV support (necessary for AWOL) and plays just about every format you can think of. Most of us have it. I can't recommend going that route enough. Use MakeMKV to backup/rip to a HDD. Support Random Space Media and all new released 3D discs.
> 
> I don't have a recommendation for disc based other than an,Oppo--hard to go wrong there though there are some Panasonic models that compare.


Agreed. Zidoo z9x definitely the best media player I’ve tried so far. I bought and also tested the Dune HD unit and it’s definitely lacking in features and playback capability vs the Zidoo so I returned it. At first, some of my 3D files weren’t playing properly on the Zidoo and thought there was an issue with my unit but turned out I had some badly ripped 3D ISOs that wasn’t playable on anything. I redid the backups using MakeMKV and it’s working perfectly on the Zidoo now. The only thing that is better on the Dune HD is the app. It’s much nicer and has more features/options vs the Zidoo app.


----------



## erufael

avkevin said:


> General > power setting > default source


Thank you!


----------



## Nuno Campos

brokenconduit said:


> What do you all recommend for a 3D Blu Ray player?


I recommend the Sony BDP-S6700. I got one just for my zone A discs like all the 3D archive restored movies released by Kino and you cannot go wrong with that player. For zone B I have a Sony UBP-X700 so you can go with that if you also want UHD playability.


----------



## rooterha

Gotta say I'm pretty turned off to AWOL forever after seeing how their cofounder / president behaves himself on social media (Steven Shulman the cofounder / president of AWOL)




















Anyone who has been paying attention know that Brian was one of the biggest early supporters of AWOL and also one of the biggest skeptics of the T1/Theater when a lot of us were fanboying over it when it was released in China. The insecurity and ego from Steven makes me very unlikely to purchase any of AWOLs products in the future and if I was an owner I'd be a little worried that someone so unhinged is behind the scenes running things. Ouch.


----------



## Nuno Campos

rooterha said:


> Gotta say I'm pretty turned off to AWOL forever after seeing how their cofounder / president behaves himself on social media (Steven Shulman the cofounder / president of AWOL)
> 
> View attachment 3373611
> 
> 
> View attachment 3373612
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who has been paying attention know that Brian was one of the biggest early supporters of AWOL and also one of the biggest skeptics of the T1/Theater when a lot of us were fanboying over it when it was released in China. The insecurity and ego from Steven makes me very unlikely to purchase any of AWOLs products in the future and if I was an owner I'd be a little worried that someone so unhinged is behind the scenes running things. Ouch.


What is this post of yours suppose to accomplish?
Bryan has been nothing sort of amazing in every interaction I saw from him, and that includes his many post on this AWOL thread helping users in their projector purchase.
And AWOL clearly has a great product and a care for its customers with the adding of features and prompt resolution of problems that arise from some firmware updates.
Am I suppose to cancel or boycott a company because one of their co-founders had a problem with a shootout that he deemed unfair?
Once again, what is your post trying to acomplish? It brings nothing to the table and last time I checked this is a page where people exchange feedback and personal experience with the AWOL projector.


----------



## rooterha

Nuno Campos said:


> What is this post of yours suppose to accomplish?
> Bryan has been nothing sort of amazing in every interaction I saw from him, and that includes his many post on this AWOL thread helping users in their projector purchase.
> And AWOL clearly has a great product and a care for its customers with the adding of features and prompt resolution of problems that arise from some firmware updates.
> Am I suppose to cancel or boycott a company because one of their co-founders had a problem with a shootout that he deemed unfair?
> Once again, what is your post trying to acomplish? It brings nothing to the table and last time I checked this is a page where people exchange feedback and personal experience with the AWOL projector.


I'm just sharing something that is relevant to anyone who is interested in the projector. I would never consider buying from a company led by a loose cannon who has no problem trashing supporters of his company just because an unbiased event chose a competitor's projector.

You don't have to read or respond to it if it bothers you, but some people will care like me.

And I'm talking about Steven. Brian is the one being trashed by Steven. I agree Brian has been fantastic.


----------



## Nuno Campos

rooterha said:


> I'm just sharing something that is relevant to anyone who is interested in the projector. I would never consider buying from a company led by a loose cannon who has no problem trashing supporters of his company just because an unbiased event chose a competitor's project.
> 
> You don't have to read or respond to it if it bothers you, but some people will care like me.
> 
> And I'm talking about Steven. Brian is the one being trashed by Steven. I agree Brian has been fantastic.


That is actually where I disagree with you. It’s not relevant. It’s not relevant at all. AWOL has a great product and great customer service. I can think of other projector companies that just want to make a sale and their customer service lacks when it comes to support. AWOL has been nothing like that and the suggestion that we need/should to look elsewhere because the co-founder was unhappy and said something you don’t like and therefore we need to beware of him is ridiculous.


----------



## rooterha

Nuno Campos said:


> That is actually where I disagree with you. It’s not relevant. It’s not relevant at all. AWOL has a great product and great customer service. I can think of other projector companies that just want to make a sale and their customer service lacks when it comes to support. AWOL has been nothing like that and the suggestion that we need/should to look elsewhere because the co-founder was unhappy and said something you don’t like and therefore we need to beware of him is ridiculous.


I'm just putting information out there. You can do whatever you want with it. I won't respond to the obvious fanboy defense force anymore.


----------



## Nuno Campos

rooterha said:


> I'm just putting information out there. You can do whatever you want with it. I won't respond to the obvious fanboy defense force anymore.


Lol. It’s nothing of a sort. My problem is with people like you that take offense with something and go on a crusade to have someone canceled. And putting information out there? You put up a couple of screenshots and decided that warranted boycotting a whole company.


----------



## Kev1000000

I think this information is helpful. Sounds like AWOL is upset that brightness wasn't a factor in the ratings, which is where they excel and would beat competition, so they want that as a rating metric. They (well Steven) is guilty of what he is accusing Brian of, which is choosing metrics that will bias the competition in their favor. It's just not a good look and does influence my overall impression of AWOL.

There are lots of great choices in the market to choose from, and AWOL needs to compete on ALL aspects, not just brightness. Their upcoming enhanced black firmware is a perfect way to start competing against the Formovie, not suggesting that the compeition was fixed to unfairly treat AWOL compared to others.


----------



## rooterha

Nuno Campos said:


> Lol. It’s nothing of a sort. My problem is with people like you that take offense with something and go on a crusade to have someone canceled. And putting information out there? You put up a couple of screenshots and decided that warranted boycotting a whole company.


Have a good day brother.


----------



## adrift

rooterha said:


> Gotta say I'm pretty turned off to AWOL forever after seeing how their cofounder / president behaves himself on social media (Steven Shulman the cofounder / president of AWOL)
> 
> View attachment 3373611
> 
> 
> View attachment 3373612
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who has been paying attention know that Brian was one of the biggest early supporters of AWOL and also one of the biggest skeptics of the T1/Theater when a lot of us were fanboying over it when it was released in China. The insecurity and ego from Steven makes me very unlikely to purchase any of AWOLs products in the future and if I was an owner I'd be a little worried that someone so unhinged is behind the scenes running things. Ouch.


Dang, I hate it when the parents argue in public  

I think this is relevant to the thread, so I'm thankful that it was shared. I doubt it'll be the case, but I just hope that this interaction doesn't spoil ProjectorScreen's support for the product. Brian seems far too professional to let that happen though.


----------



## rooterha

adrift said:


> Dang, I hate it when the parents argue in public
> 
> I think this is relevant to the thread, so I'm thankful that it was shared. I doubt it'll be the case, but I just hope that this interaction doesn't spoil ProjectorScreen's support for the product. Brian seems far too professional to let that happen though.


In the same thread (and others on the group) he was consistently saying positive things about the LTV-3500. That's why I was so thrown by how aggressive Steven came out against him haha.


----------



## adrift

rooterha said:


> In the same thread (and others on the group) he was consistently saying positive things about the LTV-3500. That's why I was so thrown by how aggressive Steven came out against him haha.


Yeah, ProjectorScreens has said nice things about it on Reddit as well, so they certainly don't have it out for the company (and as a seller, they'd be undercutting themselves anyways, which wouldn't make any sense). Maybe the stress of having a relatively new product competing with the big guys during the madness of the holidays is the cause of frustration. 

For context though, Steven Shulman was replying to a post asking for a bright UST recommendation in a room filled with ambient light (narrowed down to the AWOL 3500, Epson LS800, and LG HU915QE ). A mod (not Brian) suggested that for brightness he leans towards the Epson (even though the AWOL beat the Epson in brightness during the VE showdown by a bit of a margin (though the mod was not associated with that showdown, and may have not been aware of the results)). The mod also claimed that AWOL "almost definitely is not" available for returns and trades in case the projector was not to the poster's liking, which Steve corrected by replying "We do have a 30 day no fee return policy." In a previous thread the same mod had claimed that he had heard that AWOL's "customer service has been questionable," which prompted a reply from the official AWOL Vision account. So it seems there was already some tension brewing on the forum. Not that this necessarily excuses any off behavior, but it does provide a bit of insight I think.


----------



## rooterha

adrift said:


> Yeah, ProjectorScreens has said nice things about it on Reddit as well, so they certainly don't have it out for the company (and as a seller, they'd be undercutting themselves anyways, which wouldn't make any sense). Maybe the stress of having a relatively new product competing with the big guys during the madness of the holidays is the cause of frustration.
> 
> For context though, Steven Shulman was replying to a post asking for a bright UST recommendation in a room filled with ambient light (narrowed down to the AWOL 3500, Epson LS800, and LG HU915QE ). A mod (not Brian) suggested that for brightness he leans towards the Epson (even though the AWOL beat the Epson in brightness during the VE showdown by a bit of a margin (though the mod was not associated with that showdown, and may have not been aware of the results)). The mod also claimed that AWOL "almost definitely is not" available for returns and trades in case the projector was not to the poster's liking, which Steve corrected by replying "We do have a 30 day no fee return policy." In a previous thread the same mod had claimed that he had heard that AWOL's "customer service has been questionable," which prompted a reply from the official AWOL Vision account. So it seems there was already some tension brewing on the forum. Not that this necessarily excuses any off behavior, but it does provide a bit of insight I think.


For sure - but that mod doesn't work for ProjectorScreen as far as I know and that seems separate from what he's claiming about Brian. 

Also at the end of the day it's about who you want to be as a company... a reasonable person who is confident in their product would just address the points without lashing out or creating some conspiracy theory that PS is out to get them.


----------



## Brajesh

Hope they can work it out. Both AWOL and Formovie, as well as other manufacturers, have a place in the market and different consumer interests to serve. FMT not being in the VE shootout was a glaring omission, and it's bothersome that manufacturers were present at the event (think they have them present for all shoot-outs). It's like having politicians running for office in the same space you're casting votes. The ProjectorScreen.com/Projector Central shoot-out included only the judges, and I recall reading Brian & Dave excused themselves from certain parts to ensure they weren't influencing results in any way, even indirectly.


----------



## Nuno Campos

adrift said:


> Yeah, ProjectorScreens has said nice things about it on Reddit as well, so they certainly don't have it out for the company (and as a seller, they'd be undercutting themselves anyways, which wouldn't make any sense). Maybe the stress of having a relatively new product competing with the big guys during the madness of the holidays is the cause of frustration.
> 
> For context though, Steven Shulman was replying to a post asking for a bright UST recommendation in a room filled with ambient light (narrowed down to the AWOL 3500, Epson LS800, and LG HU915QE ). A mod (not Brian) suggested that for brightness he leans towards the Epson (even though the AWOL beat the Epson in brightness during the VE showdown by a bit of a margin (though the mod was not associated with that showdown, and may have not been aware of the results)). The mod also claimed that AWOL "almost definitely is not" available for returns and trades in case the projector was not to the poster's liking, which Steve corrected by replying "We do have a 30 day no fee return policy." In a previous thread the same mod had claimed that he had heard that AWOL's "customer service has been questionable," which prompted a reply from the official AWOL Vision account. So it seems there was already some tension brewing on the forum. Not that this necessarily excuses any off behavior, but it does provide a bit of insight I think.


Can you link this original exchange? I would like to read everything and not just the two posts from before. Thank you


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> Hard drive wise you can't get much better than a Zidoo Z9x. You have a lot of control over depth on the z-plane and it's the best I've seen depth wise--probably the most important factor when looking at a player. It also spoofs Dolby Vision EDID's for LLDV support (necessary for AWOL) and plays just about every format you can think of. Most of us have it. I can't recommend going that route enough. Use MakeMKV to backup/rip to a HDD. Support Random Space Media and all new released 3D discs.
> 
> I don't have a recommendation for disc based other than an,Oppo--hard to go wrong there though there are some Panasonic models that compare.


Two questions:

So you need a Blu-Ray burner on a PC to rip the 3D files. Then that file I play through Zidoo? I have always been a Plex user so it is a bit of a learning curve now. 

So I have an Apple TV4K....does it have a place if I get the Zidoo Z9X? Or just get the Zidoo and call it a day? And I am guessing it has streaming apps as well, just that we as users will have more control over it? 



Brajesh said:


> How deep you go w/HDFury is up to you (real deep for experts like @Dave Harper, @markswift2003 & others), but I'm good at staying at _copying/pasting or following outlined steps_ level
> View attachment 3373290





Kyle Gallagher said:


> That's probably gonna be as deep as I go as well. I already have those posts saved for when it shows up.


On the note above, so with Zidoo you still recommend getting HD Fury device. Was VRROOM the deciding winner for future proof? Has the same capabilities of the Vertex? 

I kind of am taking your guys word for it as you have more experience than I do. 



Nuno Campos said:


> I recommend the Sony BDP-S6700. I got one just for my zone A discs like all the 3D archive restored movies released by Kino and you cannot go wrong with that player. For zone B I have a Sony UBP-X700 so you can go with that if you also want UHD playability.


Thank you for the recommendation!


----------



## adrift

rooterha said:


> For sure - but that mod doesn't work for ProjectorScreen as far as I know and that seems separate from what he's claiming about Brian.
> 
> Also at the end of the day it's about who you want to be as a company... a reasonable person who is confident in their product would just address the points without lashing out or creating some conspiracy theory that PS is out to get them.


Agreed, and you're correct, the mod does not work for ProjectorScreen, he's just a moderator of an unrelated projector Facebook page. Just trying to provide some context.

As a side note, that particular mod seems to really dislike USTs in general. He seems to think that they're unnecessary (calling them niche in a niche market) when 85" TVs exist, which is a bit of a strange thing to say for a moderator of a Projector-based Facebook group.


----------



## adrift

Nuno Campos said:


> Can you link this original exchange? I would like to read everything and not just the two posts from before. Thank you


I'm not sure what the rules are to linking to these sorts of things, but you can find the exchange in the ProjectorCentral User Group on Facebook.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Hope they can work it out. Both AWOL and Formovie, as well as other manufacturers, have a place in the market and different consumer interests to serve. FMT not being in the VE shootout was a glaring omission, and it's bothersome that manufacturers were present at the event (think they have them present for all shoot-outs). It's like having politicians running for office in the same space you're casting votes. The ProjectorScreen.com/Projector Central shoot-out included only the judges, and I recall reading Brian & Dave excused themselves from certain parts to ensure they weren't influencing results in any way, even indirectly.


...and FB drama spills over to here. Despite my continual praise of AWOL Vision products and my good working relationship with their CEO, it is obvious that not everyone at that company likes me 

FWIW, yet again, we in no way "set up" any brand to win/lose in the LaserTV Showdown and if we were to do so (despite having no control over the content, criteria or judging), it would have been vastly more lucrative for us to have "set up" the AWOL 3500 to win as we were the only reseller of them as well and the LTV-3500 has a high price tag and thus higher profitability.

Feel free to judge their behavior and claims in any way you see fit, as well as mine. I think it's safe to assume that some people at AWOL Vision may be embarrassed by this behavior and I am surprised those comments have not yet been taken down.

While I am not one to stifle discussion, I would prefer to not get involved here on AVSForum in this regard.


----------



## ProjectionHead

adrift said:


> Agreed, and you're correct, the mod does not work for ProjectorScreen, he's just a moderator of an unrelated projector Facebook page. Just trying to provide some context.
> 
> As a side note, that particular mod seems to really dislike USTs in general. He seems to think that they're unnecessary (calling them niche in a niche market) when 85" TVs exist, which is a bit of a strange thing to say for a moderator of a Projector-based Facebook group.


The Mod is actually a member here on AVSForum as well. I will send him a link to this thread should he feels like commenting.


----------



## ProjectionHead

rooterha said:


> I'm just sharing something that is relevant to anyone who is interested in the projector. I would never consider buying from a company led by a loose cannon who has no problem trashing supporters of his company just because an unbiased event chose a competitor's projector.
> 
> You don't have to read or respond to it if it bothers you, but some people will care like me.
> 
> And I'm talking about Steven. Brian is the one being trashed by Steven. I agree Brian has been fantastic.


Fantastic?!? Brian is "alright" at best


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> Fantastic?!? Brian is "alright" at best


Truest words you’ve spoken yet!


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> Gotta say I'm pretty turned off to AWOL forever after seeing how their cofounder / president behaves himself on social media (Steven Shulman the cofounder / president of AWOL)
> 
> View attachment 3373611
> 
> 
> View attachment 3373612
> 
> 
> Anyone who has been paying attention know that Brian was one of the biggest early supporters of AWOL and also one of the biggest skeptics of the T1/Theater when a lot of us were fanboying over it when it was released in China. The insecurity and ego from Steven makes me very unlikely to purchase any of AWOLs products in the future and if I was an owner I'd be a little worried that someone so unhinged is behind the scenes running things. Ouch.


Not sure why this post is even an issue 🤣. Do you or others not know how some or possibly most business owners talk behind the scenes? You just got a glimpse. To reach that level you have to be a dog, similar to a top athlete mentality. Nothing new here and AWOL Product Managers as far as I can see actually listen to the customers which is rare and update their software accordingly, this is why they are so popular now. As long as they keep this up I’m buying. I have no loyalty to a product or owner. Make something nice and you can have my money. LOL


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Not sure why this post is even an issue 🤣. Do you or others not know how some or possibly most business owners talk behind the scenes? You just got a glimpse. To reach that level you have to be a dog, similar to a top athlete mentality. Nothing new here and AWOL Product Managers as far as I can see actually listen to the customers which is rare and update their software accordingly, this is why they are so popular now. As long as they keep this up I’m buying. I have no loyalty to a product or owner. Make something nice and you can have my money. LOL


I mean this is a user group for a popular site - not behind the scenes. I run a successful company and I know how to speak to people in a way that represents my company well. Like I said - all I did was put it out there and people can make their own decisions. I'm aware there are plenty of people who think being toxic and attacking everyone including your allies is good practice. I don't but you do you.


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> I mean this is a user group for a popular site - not behind the scenes. I run a successful company and I know how to speak to people in a way that represents my company well. Like I said - all I did was put it out there and people can make their own decisions. I'm aware there are plenty of people who think being toxic and attacking everyone including your allies is good practice. I don't but you do you.


Guessing you didn’t actually read what I said lol. I’ll break it down. Where in my response did I say being toxic and attacking everyone is good practice. I simply said what you saw from the CEO is a glimpse of what happens behind the scenes. I gave the analogy of an athlete because what is said in public is far different from the locker room/behind the scenes. I’m was an athlete and also been in convos in my previous job with CEO behind the scenes so yup it’s very similar. You talking in a way that represents your company well is good, bravo…but that isn’t behind the scenes. Again what is said in dark just happen to come out in public, nothing new here. Even if he was perfect in his response to Brian I’m not foolish (not calling you foolish) enough to think that’s how he really feels. 🤣


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Guessing you didn’t actually read what I said lol. I’ll break it down. Where in my response did I say being toxic and attacking everyone is good practice. I simply said what you saw from the CEO is a glimpse of what happens behind the scenes. I gave the analogy of an athlete because what is said in public is far different from the locker room/behind the scenes. I’m was an athlete and also been in convos in my previous job with CEO behind the scenes so yup it’s very similar. You talking in a way that represents your company well is good, bravo…but that isn’t behind the scenes. Again what is said in dark just happen to come out in public, nothing new here. Even if he was perfect in his response to Brian I’m not foolish (not calling you foolish) enough to think that’s how he really feels. 🤣


Yes, I know what people say behind the scenes. Yes, I know there are a lot of insecure, reactionary types in leadership positions in businesses. As I said, I run a successful business and I've worked with lots of arrogant C-suite types before I went out on my own. I also know what type of person I like to do business with and what type I do not. So I simply put it out there for everyone to see, and the people who care can make their decision. The people who don't can continue on. Not sure why that bothers you.


----------



## arsenalfc89

rooterha said:


> Yes, I know what people say behind the scenes. Yes, I know there are a lot of insecure, reactionary types in leadership positions in businesses. As I said, I run a successful business and I've worked with lots of arrogant C-suite types before I went out on my own. I also know what type of person I like to do business with and what type I do not. So I simply put it out there for everyone to see, and the people who care can make their decision. The people who don't can continue on. Not sure why that bothers you.


Again you didn’t really read my response. No where did I say it bothers me, in fact I said “nothing new here”. You putting it out isn’t wrong in anyway, to me it’s not even a slight issue. I’ll leave my final response this way, if the CEO of Apple had a leaked video of him cursing out other companies and dealers, I’ll still be buying the iPhone. Get rid of him or keep him I don’t care. The phone serves me well and the Product Managers are doing it justice so I’m buying. 🤣


----------



## ProjectionHead

arsenalfc89 said:


> Again you didn’t really read my response. No where did I say it bothers me, in fact I said “nothing new here”. You putting it out isn’t wrong in anyway, to me it’s not even a slight issue. I’ll leave my final response this way, if the CEO of Apple had a leaked video of him cursing out other companies and dealers, I’ll still be buying the iPhone. Get rid of him or keep him I don’t care. The phone serves me well and the Product Managers are doing it justice so I’m buying. 🤣


To be clear; the only thing that I am advocating in relation to AWOL Vision is that if you are going to buy it, buy it from ProjectorScreen.com 🤑

In all seriousness, both @arsenalfc89 & @rooterha are both stand up members of this forum and may happen to disagree on this issue. Let's let sleeping dogs lie and have a group hug 🤗 ... I call the middle!


----------



## arsenalfc89

ProjectionHead said:


> To be clear; the only thing that I am advocating in relation to AWOL Vision is that if you are going to buy it, buy it from ProjectorScreen.com 🤑
> 
> In all seriousness, both @arsenalfc89 & @rooterha are both stand up members of this forum and may happen to disagree on this issue. Let's let sleeping dogs lie and have a group hug 🤗 ... I call the middle!


I personally have no issues with @rooterha so we’re good 🤝. As for buying, they way UST are going you’ll be seeing my money more……unfortunately 🤣.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

I can see both sides both ways. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie. Subjective shootouts (not everyone values brightness ) are what they are and should be taken with a grain of salt.

For Example:

The "Experts" rated the AWOL's Color Gamut, which measures 107% of BT2020, as a 77/100 and the Formovie Theater's, measured 89% of BT2020 a 92/100!?!?!?
Most had never heard of Formovie, even though it had been around 3-5 years which shows you their knowledge of the UST market coming into the shootout.
If you just look at those two things you'd think these weren't UST RGB Laser experts, but long throw, single laser/bulb, low color volume experts. Take that with a grain of salt


----------



## rooterha

arsenalfc89 said:


> Again you didn’t really read my response. No where did I say it bothers me, in fact I said “nothing new here”. You putting it out isn’t wrong in anyway, to me it’s not even a slight issue. I’ll leave my final response this way, if the CEO of Apple had a leaked video of him cursing out other companies and dealers, I’ll still be buying the iPhone. Get rid of him or keep him I don’t care. The phone serves me well and the Product Managers are doing it justice so I’m buying. 🤣


Again, you keep saying I didn't read your response. Your original post says you don't see why this is an issue. I told you why it is an issue to me. That's all. Agree to disagree (or if you think we agree, agree to agree). Not upset about it - not even upset about the original AWOL post. Just rubbed me the wrong way and turned me off to a very new company that hasn't yet proved itself with time.


----------



## Nuno Campos

ProjectionHead said:


> To be clear;the only thing that I am advocating in relation to AWOL Vision is that if you are going to buy it, buy it from ProjectorScreen.com 🤑


Question for you. I noticed that on AWOL’s website they are selling a 150” ALR screen. Do you know if this is the same model as the Spectra Vantage 150 you are selling. Price wise they are the same.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nuno Campos said:


> Question for you. I noticed that on AWOL’s website they are selling a 150” ALR screen. Do you know if this is the same model as the Spectra Vantage 150 you are selling. Price wise they are the same.


I have never seen the AWOL 150” in person and last I heard it has not started shipping.
I’m not exactly sure that they will be sending me one to checkout now either.
If it’s the same frame and material as the 100” they sent me months ago, it is not the same as the Spectra.


----------



## toxtrepla

ProjectionHead said:


> I have never seen the AWOL 150” in person and last I heard it has not started shipping.
> I’m not exactly sure that they will be sending me one to checkout now either.
> If it’s the same frame and material as the 100” they sent me months ago, it is not the same as the Spectra.


I actually own the AWOL 150 inch (got an insane discount bundle deal Black Friday week) and have for two weeks now, and it appears similar in that there is a seam.


----------



## Nuno Campos

toxtrepla said:


> I actually own the AWOL 150 inch (got an insane discount bundle deal Black Friday week) and have for two weeks now, and it appears similar in that there is a seam.


Would love for some pics of your setup.


----------



## ProjectionHead

toxtrepla said:


> I actually own the AWOL 150 inch (got an insane discount bundle deal Black Friday week) and have for two weeks now, and it appears similar in that there is a seam.


Good deal. I guess they didn't let us know what dealer pricing is or that it's shipping yet. Enjoy your biiiiiiiiiig screen


----------



## toxtrepla

ProjectionHead said:


> Good deal. I guess they didn't let us know what dealer pricing is or that it's shipping yet. Enjoy your biiiiiiiiiig screen


Thanks man! Gotta say, TV is ruined for me at this point.


Nuno Campos said:


> Would love for some pics of your setup.


Sure thing. I’ll attach some here. Don’t mind the mess… still setting up some server pieces. Not a controlled room like a lot of you guys but more of a movie/game room setup.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

toxtrepla said:


> Thanks man! Gotta say, TV is ruined for me at this point.
> 
> Sure thing. I’ll attach some here. Don’t mind the mess… still setting up some server pieces. Not a controlled room like a lot of you guys but more of a movie/game room setup.
> View attachment 3373859
> 
> View attachment 3373861
> 
> View attachment 3373862
> 
> View attachment 3373860


The great thing about a 150" with a .25 throw ratio is the ability to put a larger center channel in between. If I had a bigger room I think I'd go there since AWOL has the lumens, but with a 1.0 gain screen perhaps to regain the difference in nits from 120" (225 nits with .8 gain) to 150" (185 nits). You're getting the minimum (-109 nits) for HDR with that.5 or.6 screen. Which is very good at that size. You're also getting a lower black floor. 

Looks nice man!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> The great thing about a 150" with a .25 throw ratio is the ability to put a larger center channel in between. If I had a bigger room I think I'd go there since AWOL has the lumens, but with a 1.0 gain screen perhaps to regain the difference in nits from 120" (225 nits with .8 gain) to 150" (185 nits). You're getting the minimum (-109 nits) for HDR with that.5 or.6 screen. Which is very good at that size. You're also getting a lower black floor.
> 
> Looks nice man!


Almost needed to excavate a hole to place the projector in 🤣
That setup is HUGE 👍❤


----------



## invader zog

ProjectionHead said:


> ...and FB drama spills over to here. Despite my continual praise of AWOL Vision products and my good working relationship with their CEO, it is obvious that not everyone at that company likes me
> 
> FWIW, yet again, we in no way "set up" any brand to win/lose in the LaserTV Showdown and if we were to do so (despite having no control over the content, criteria or judging), it would have been vastly more lucrative for us to have "set up" the AWOL 3500 to win as we were the only reseller of them as well and the LTV-3500 has a high price tag and thus higher profitability.
> 
> Feel free to judge their behavior and claims in any way you see fit, as well as mine. I think it's safe to assume that some people at AWOL Vision may be embarrassed by this behavior and I am surprised those comments have not yet been taken down.
> 
> While I am not one to stifle discussion, I would prefer to not get involved here on AVSForum in this regard.
> 
> View attachment 3373712


for what it’s worth, the showdown in question is what cemented my decision to purchase an AWOL


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> The great thing about a 150" with a .25 throw ratio is the ability to put a larger center channel in between.


Absolutely! Center channel placement on a smaller screen can be difficult but with this big mammer-jammer you could fit some serious center channel fire power


----------



## brokenconduit

ProjectionHead said:


> To be clear; the only thing that I am advocating in relation to AWOL Vision is that if you are going to buy it, buy it from ProjectorScreen.com 🤑
> 
> In all seriousness, both @arsenalfc89 & @rooterha are both stand up members of this forum and may happen to disagree on this issue. Let's let sleeping dogs lie and have a group hug 🤗 ... I call the middle!


I don't get involved in the drama. Just gonna throw my 2 cents in here as I read all this. 

I literally ordered a Formovie Theater through Brian, called him a week or so later stating I think the AWOL-3500 would be a better fit for my family (3D, gaming lag, daytime viewing, etc...would just be a better fit). It was a very easy talk. There was no bad-mouthing of AWOL. We straight up agree'd it would be a good call, changed my order to the AWOL, and it is now arriving on Monday . Thank you again Brian! 

My Vividstorm screen on the other hand is giving me a bit of a headache but I am sure all will be solved 😪

Everyone just needs to relax and understand, we are in the prime age of these UST's and there will always be something better coming along. In a few months the Formovie and AWOL will be old news, haha. Technology moves so fast.


----------



## rooterha

Apparently I work for Brian. This guy is super paranoid.


----------



## Dgtr74

Personally, as an Audio/Video enthusiast, I am stoked that there is so much interest and competition in this UST space. I also take it as a positive to find out how competitive AWOL’s CEO is. It potentially means there will be constant updates coming that will push this projector (LTV3500) to the limits. Every business comes down to customer service and what’s in it for them. Catering to their needs. I am an executive for a large corporation and that is our bread and butter. Keep delivering on what customers want and that will drive sales and success. 

With that said, I have been extremely impressed with the performance and features of the AWOL LTV-3500 and have been referring friends and colleagues to the AWOL site and ProjectorScreen.com to make their purchase. Everyone wins! Let’s keep pushing this technology/space forward!🙏


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> I don't get involved in the drama. Just gonna throw my 2 cents in here as I read all this.
> 
> I literally ordered a Formovie Theater through Brian, called him a week or so later stating I think the AWOL-3500 would be a better fit for my family (3D, gaming lag, daytime viewing, etc...would just be a better fit). It was a very easy talk. There was no bad-mouthing of AWOL. We straight up agree'd it would be a good call, changed my order to the AWOL, and it is now arriving on Monday . Thank you again Brian!
> 
> My Vividstorm screen on the other hand is giving me a bit of a headache but I am sure all will be solved 😪
> 
> Everyone just needs to relax and understand, we are in the prime age of these UST's and there will always be something better coming along. In a few months the Formovie and AWOL will be old news, haha. Technology moves so fast.


That is awesome!!! Kudos to Brian and projectorscreen.com. Seriously man other hobbies would be jealous for that kind of customer/expert influencer business owner/ relationship!🤤


----------



## Nuno Campos

toxtrepla said:


> Thanks man! Gotta say, TV is ruined for me at this point.
> 
> Sure thing. I’ll attach some here. Don’t mind the mess… still setting up some server pieces. Not a controlled room like a lot of you guys but more of a movie/game room setup.
> View attachment 3373859
> 
> View attachment 3373861
> 
> View attachment 3373862
> 
> View attachment 3373860


That looks proper home cinema. Like mentioned, I love that you’re able to put a proper center speaker below the screen with plenty of space to spare.


----------



## Dave Harper

Casey_Bryson said:


> I can see both sides both ways. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie. Subjective shootouts (not everyone values brightness ) are what they are and should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> For Example:
> 
> The "Experts" rated the AWOL's Color Gamut, which measures 107% of BT2020, as a 77/100 and the Formovie Theater's, measured 89% of BT2020 a 92/100!?!?!?
> Most had never heard of Formovie, even though it had been around 3-5 years which shows you their knowledge of the UST market coming into the shootout.
> If you just look at those two things you'd think these weren't UST RGB Laser experts, but long throw, single laser/bulb, low color volume experts. Take that with a grain of salt


I had the exact same reaction. I was utterly shocked that the full BT2020 capable USTs didn’t finish high in the color rendition section of the grading!

I recall that I kept saying that I couldn’t understand why these industry guys couldn’t at least see that, with all their many years experience. 

I honestly believe it’s because ALL that experience has always been with watching sub-BT2020 (Rec709, DVI-P3) colors, so when they saw what true colors looked like being projected, maybe they subconsciously told themselves it was “oversaturated”, when in fact it was far from it!

Nigel from ArrowAV if I recall hinted at experiencing the same phenomenon when he was first demonstrating the Christie Eclipse which also does full BT2020. There were quite a few “expert” naysayers trying to say the colors were overblown and not correct. WRONG!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> I can see both sides both ways. Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie. Subjective shootouts (not everyone values brightness ) are what they are and should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> For Example:
> 
> The "Experts" rated the AWOL's Color Gamut, which measures 107% of BT2020, as a 77/100 and the Formovie Theater's, measured 89% of BT2020 a 92/100!?!?!?
> Most had never heard of Formovie, even though it had been around 3-5 years which shows you their knowledge of the UST market coming into the shootout.
> If you just look at those two things you'd think these weren't UST RGB Laser experts, but long throw, single laser/bulb, low color volume experts. Take that with a grain of salt


In all fairness, many of the judges I believe were aware of appotronics, Xioami and some possibly Fengmi. Formovie as sub brand in the family to my knowledge is quite new and I personally never heard of it until I was introduced to the Theater as well just shortly before the Showdown.

The “experts” for the most part are expert in the sense that they are professional, trained & certified calibrators and technology reviewers.

When I got to spend some time with them in the evenings and socialize, I quickly realized that I was the dumb one in the room.

To call into question them as “experts” because they were not aware of a new brand name yet to be sold in the USA or following the direction of PJC in regards of how to score the criteria really isn’t fair.

Regarding the color gamut rating - I didn’t quite know how this was judged and had to ask Rob Sabin for clarification afterwards so that I could explain it to others.

It was not an analysis of the sweeps or anything that wouldn’t require judging (such as a simple espousing of the gamut measured), but i believe he had used specific scenes like the tulips and colored jars from Spears & Muncil for the judges to grade the colors against each other and the reference source. I could possibly be mistaking this, so please contact ProjectorCentral for any clarification

It is quite clear that a number of factors can influence the outcome of an event. Everything from the content to the criteria to the judges and the direction they were given.

Were the projectors calibrated, focused properly, paired with proper screens for the environment, having the right settings enabled/disabled, etc? The list is quite extensive and perhaps next year I suggest to PJC that we allow 2 units from each manufacturer - one calibrated and configured uniformly by the event staff for a level playing field and a 2nd unit (should the manufacturer want to participate) that the manufacturer can setup and configure in a manner that they think is “the best” for bright room viewing. Again, I can just suggest as I am a host and facilitator and not the director.

I don’t believe PJC thought that measured readings, such as brightness, contrast ratio or color gamut coverage were “judgeable” in the sense of an expert assigning a subjective score against what a meter showed.

Those attributes however were incorporated in to the content biding viewed, direction provided to judges and their subjective ranking based on perception and experience.


----------



## ProjectionHead

.deleted.


----------



## Nuno Campos

My biggest complaint with these shootout is that I always feels they use the standard tools for calibration to access a projector’s worth. Let me clarify what I mean, as much as it is wise to use the S&M disc and clips to judge the image, I always feel that is not a real world test. I know it might have something to do with these shootouts being filmed and put on youtube and they don’t want t get them copyright striked and removed, but I always feel that this does not do any projector justice. This last one organized by VE felt exactly like that, a bunch of clips and pictures of flowers and nature that while look amazing, are not representative of real world usage. Another thing I find odd is that no one seems to mention RBE. The LG HU915QB page here on the forum is full of users that found this projector to be disappointing because of this. And they are using real clips of movies. And yet, this projector always get top marks on picture. 
Another thing that is never taken into consideration is 3D, or to better put it, how good or bad is it. Is it bright or dim, how much crosstalk is there?
Brian, maybe the next shootout you participate or organize can be a 3D battle of the best. Maybe Xpand can sponsor it, as their glasses seem to be the best option for either lcd or dlp projectors.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nuno Campos said:


> My biggest complaint with these shootout is that I always feels they use the standard tools for calibration to access a projector’s worth. Let me clarify what I mean, as much as it is wise to use the S&M disc and clips to judge the image, I always feel that is not a real world test. I know it might have something to do with these shootouts being filmed and put on youtube and they don’t want t get them copyright striked and removed, but I always feel that this does not do any projector justice. This last one organized by VE felt exactly like that, a bunch of clips and pictures of flowers and nature that while look amazing, are not representative of real world usage. Another thing I find odd is that no one seems to mention RBE. The LG HU915QB page here on the forum is full of users that found this projector to be disappointing because of this. And they are using real clips of movies. And yet, this projector always get top marks on picture.
> Another thing that is never taken into consideration is 3D, or to better put it, how good or bad is it. Is it bright or dim, how much crosstalk is there?
> Brian, maybe the next shootout you participate or organize can be a 3D battle of the best. Maybe Xpand can sponsor it, as their glasses seem to be the best option for either lcd or dlp projectors.


I know at the Showdown the S&M disc was not the primary video source and Rob had an extensive playlist of selected scenes drawn from the Kaleidescape unit we had on hand, specifically to address real world viewing.

As far as RBE is concerned, every single DLP unit had it whether single or triple laser.

Some were worse than others, but some judges are less perceptible to it.
I don’t believe PJC felt confident in a way to incorporate it as a judging criteria but it is discussed in the writeup.

I like that idea about an independent 3D shootout and will consider doing one myself. If not done as an official Showdown, perhaps as just our own analysis.

Of course, keep in mind that brands that behave poorly and lack professionalism as a result of their dissatisfaction with how the judges perceived their product are much less likely to be included in future events for obvious reasons.

I know that I said I would try to leave the drama off here, but here is how in tried to end it on FB:


_“we didn’t include ANYTHING as a parameter because we didn’t chose any of the criteria, content or judges. This is a very clear and established fact and always has been from the start.

That was all done by ProjectorCentral, a trusted and reputable editorial source who doesn’t benefit whether AWOL, Formovie or anyone else wins or loses.

It is unfortunate for you that AWOL didn’t place highly in the LaserTV Showdown.

It is good to see that your brand learned from it, has made improvements via firmware and when you competed in this more recent event, you did better as a result.

Today’s AWOL ltv-3500 is not the same one as it was 4 months ago.

AWOL should be proud that they are nimble enough and able to make these types of improvements and continually progress their product.

What AWOL shouldn’t be proud of is how you are portraying them by lying and attacking your supporters and critics.”



https://m.facebook.com/groups/projectorcentralsgroup/permalink/1287239638796202/


_
You win more flies with honey than with vinegar


----------



## Dgtr74

ProjectionHead said:


> It is quite clear that a number of factors can influence the outcome of an event. Everything from the content to the criteria to the judges and the direction they were given.
> 
> Were the projectors calibrated, focused properly, paired with proper screens for the environment, having the right settings enabled/disabled, etc? The list is quite extensive and perhaps next year I suggest to PJC that we allow 2 units from each manufacturer - one calibrated and configured uniformly by the event staff for a level playing field and a 2nd unit (should the manufacturer want to participate) that the manufacturer can setup and configure in a manner that they think is “the best” for bright room viewing. Again, I can just suggest as I am a host and facilitator and not the director.


I like this idea. Every manufacturer should be allowed to configure their own unit in a way they feel shows off their best picture for the environment. I already knew there were all these variables like you mentioned and so I always take these shootouts with a grain of salt. I always do my own research as well and personally test the projectors before I decide to keep them. I’ve read there was so many things that were wrong with the VE shootout, from picture settings to judging criteria/scoring system...not very well organized.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dgtr74 said:


> I like this idea. Every manufacturer should be allowed to configure their own unit in a way they feel shows off their best picture for the environment. I already knew there were all these variables like you mentioned and so I always take these shootouts with a grain of salt. I always do my own research as well and personally test the projectors before I decide to keep them. I’ve read there was so many things that were wrong with the VE shootout, from picture settings to judging criteria...not very well organized.


If we were to do a “manufacturer configured” shootout, we’d have to give them a list of criteria ahead of time so they knew what they would be graded on.

I’m going to reach out to PJC and get their thoughts on this on Monday.

The last Showdown was a full day grind, expanding its scope further may require an additional day in order to pull off.

I’d even consider doing it as a separate, independent event in the near future instead of waiting until next year (which it could be incorporated into as well).

I’ve also floated the idea/invitation of an AVSForum member panel of judges and to do something similar in case you’d be interested.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ProjectionHead said:


> If we were to do a “manufacturer configured” shootout, we’d have to give them a list of criteria ahead of time so they knew what they would be graded on.
> 
> I’m going to reach out to PJC and get their thoughts on this on Monday.
> 
> The last Showdown was a full day grind, expanding its scope further may require an additional day in order to pull off.
> 
> I’d even consider doing it as a separate, independent event in the near future instead of waiting until next year (which it could be incorporated into as well).
> 
> I’ve also floated the idea/invitation of an AVSForum member panel of judges and to do something similar in case you’d be interested.


And the birth of something new: 








The 2023 USTParty - UST Showdown/Shootout Ideas


We are considering holding an event sometime in early 2023 and opening our doors to AVSForum members to participate. Unlike the UST Showcase that we hosted with AVSForum in March of 2022, this new event, tentatively named “The USTParty” will be more of an evaluation as opposed to an exposition...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Nuno Campos

ProjectionHead said:


> I like that idea about an independent 3D shootout and will consider doing one myself. If not done as an official Showdown, perhaps as just our own analysis.


I know from experience that once your 3D tv dies, a projector is the only way to go. And if more people realized how amazing and immersive a massive screen is, projectors would be dominating the market.



ProjectionHead said:


> Of course, keep in mind that brands that behave poorly and lack professionalism as a result of their dissatisfaction with how the judges perceived their product are much less likely to be included in future events for obvious reasons.


I’m assuming no one can actually stop you from including any given brand if you provide the projector yourself. And I expect that unless you are barred from selling a particular brand, you will still include it, specially if it sells well.



Dgtr74 said:


> I like this idea. Every manufacturer should be allowed to configure their own unit in a way they feel shows off their best picture for the environment. I already knew there were all these variables like you mentioned and so I always take these shootouts with a grain of salt. I always do my own research as well and personally test the projectors before I decide to keep them. I’ve read there was so many things that were wrong with the VE shootout, from picture settings to judging criteria...not very well organized.


I kinda see what you mean, but I don’t know exactly how it would work. From what I understand, most of these shootouts are done with sealed units, and I like that. There is no picking and choosing the best models. We should get a real representation of what we are getting. I also think out of the box experience is absolutely the best way to determine if a certain projector is a good purchase. It’s nice to know how good a projector can be with calibration, but I want to make sure that I’m getting an amazing experience without third party assistance. And the majority of users are probably never getting a calibrator over their place if the out of the box is already outstanding. I like the RTINGS model. They buy their own tvs so there is no picking and choosing the best panels to influence a decision.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nuno Campos said:


> I’m assuming no one can actually stop you from including any given brand if you provide the projector yourself. And I expect that unless you are barred from selling a particular brand, you will still include it, specially if it sells well.


Correct, we can include whomever we want. We included brands in the Showdown that didn’t want to participate, because they had buzz around them and interest was demonstrated on social media, forums and via ProjectorCentral’s metrics.

While we didn’t carry the Sony UST they were invited to participate but declined. Viewsonic also included, even though we did not carry them at that time.

No brand was excluded based on if I carried them or not, but lines were drawn on what to include based on interest, popularity and what could be squeezed into the event.

When it comes to what will be included next time (if it is up to me), similar criteria will be used to select entrants, but I would certainly also take into account what a company does when they are unhappy with the results and if it’s worth the potential headache or not.
Any item currently available for sale anywhere would be “available” and if sponsors were paying 5 figures fees, anything would be easily attainable if not already in possession.
When it comes to the units we have in our showroom right now, most were plucked right out of stock and not specifically sent by the manufacturer as opened and cherry picked demo units.



Nuno Campos said:


> I kinda see what you mean, but I don’t know exactly how it would work. From what I understand, most of these shootouts are done with sealed units, and I like that. There is no picking and choosing the best models. We should get a real representation of what we are getting. I also think out of the box experience is absolutely the best way to determine if a certain projector is a good purchase. It’s nice to know how good a projector can be with calibration, but I want to make sure that I’m getting an amazing experience without third party assistance. And the majority of users are probably never getting a calibrator over their place if the out of the box is already outstanding. I like the RTINGS model. They buy their own tvs so there is no picking and choosing the best panels to influence a decision.


It would not be difficult to compare “out of the box” against manufacturer provided settings, should that be deemed the way to go. Can be done by having a second unit or doing a factory reset.

The rationale for letting the manufacturer provide the settings will hopefully prevent further calls of impropriety or improper calibration from anyone unhappy with the judges opinions. It’s really kind of pandering to the brands, but that’s how you bring in those sponsorship dollars to be able to run the event should we not self finance it.

Is a unit running beta firmware really a “sealed unit” if it is not being judged on how it would be out of the box for anyone purchasing it that day? I’ll leave that one for the philosophers.

I like how rtings does their evaluations as well and use them as a resource for when I’m shopping for a small screen 

…perhaps we can move potential shootout talk into the new USTParty thread and bring this back on topic about that specific projector.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> I had the exact same reaction. I was utterly shocked that the full BT2020 capable USTs didn’t finish high in the color rendition section of the grading!
> 
> I recall that I kept saying that I couldn’t understand why these industry guys couldn’t at least see that, with all their many years experience.
> 
> I honestly believe it’s because ALL that experience has always been with watching sub-BT2020 (Rec709, DVI-P3) colors, so when they saw what true colors looked like being projected, maybe they subconsciously told themselves it was “oversaturated”, when in fact it was far from it!
> 
> Nigel from ArrowAV if I recall hinted at experiencing the same phenomenon when he was first demonstrating the Christie Eclipse which also does full BT2020. There were quite a few “expert” naysayers trying to say the colors were overblown and not correct. WRONG!


This is a very good point.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Dave Harper said:


> I had the exact same reaction. I was utterly shocked that the full BT2020 capable USTs didn’t finish high in the color rendition section of the grading!
> 
> I recall that I kept saying that I couldn’t understand why these industry guys couldn’t at least see that, with all their many years experience.
> 
> I honestly believe it’s because ALL that experience has always been with watching sub-BT2020 (Rec709, DVI-P3) colors, so when they saw what true colors looked like being projected, maybe they subconsciously told themselves it was “oversaturated”, when in fact it was far from it!
> 
> Nigel from ArrowAV if I recall hinted at experiencing the same phenomenon when he was first demonstrating the Christie Eclipse which also does full BT2020. There were quite a few “expert” naysayers trying to say the colors were overblown and not correct. WRONG!



💯 and that was precisely my point!

Anyone want to bake our collective noodles and recalculate the final scores with that category, giving the 77 to the FTM and the 92 to the AWOL? 

I kid, I kid ...😉 It's really not important in the end. It's more important to call out perception, versus reality. It's okay to be wrong, that's how we get better.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> 💯 and that was precisely my point!
> 
> Anyone want to bake our collective noodles and recalculate the final scores with that category, giving the 77 to the FTM and the 92 to the AWOL?
> 
> I kid, I kid ...😉 It's really not important in the end. It's more important to call out perception, versus reality. It's okay to be wrong, that's how we get better.


If the Hisense PX1-Pro, AWOL and others have the same gamut coverage and were calibrated by the same person using the same tools, wouldn’t one expect the judges to score them the same in that category? Same for accuracy and skin tone?

Perhaps contrast or other settings/things played into how a judge perceived other variables, following the specific directions of how to score them. 🤷‍♂️

I am sure these types of things and comments will be considered for next years Showdown


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ProjectionHead said:


> If the Hisense PX1-Pro, AWOL and others have the same gamut coverage and were calibrated by the same person using the same tools, wouldn’t one expect the judges to score them the same in that category? Same for accuracy and skin tone?
> 
> Perhaps contrast or other settings/things played into how a judge perceived other variables, following the specific directions of how to score them. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> I am sure these types of things and comments will be considered for next years Showdown



We know that's not the case because they also scored the colors/skin tone as a 10 for AWOL. So the 77 is more accurate!? Or maybe all these numbers are skewed because they were comparing it to a single laser JVC!? It's hard to explain except for human error. I'll be nice and say we'd all fail the Pepsi blind test. 😂


----------



## ProjectionHead

Casey_Bryson said:


> We know that's not the case because they also scored the colors/skin tone as a 10 for AWOL. So the 77 is more accurate!? Or maybe all these numbers are skewed because they were comparing it to a single laser JVC!? It's hard to explain except for human error. I'll be nice and say we'd all fail the Pepsi blind test. 😂
> 
> View attachment 3374254


Only scored a high in hdr dark reference mode but was towards bottom of the two sdr modes; shows how variable judge perception can be or possibly how other options in the projectors menu may influence the image, beyond the “dots in the boxes” color calibration


----------



## erufael

Anyone get an AWOL ALR screen? Just finished getting the projector screen hung and there’s a strong scent coming from the screen? Curious how quickly that smell dissipates?


----------



## Nuno Campos

erufael said:


> Anyone get an AWOL ALR screen? Just finished getting the projector screen hung and there’s a strong scent coming from the screen? Curious how quickly that smell dissipates?


How big is the screen? It might be the smell of victory!


----------



## erufael

120 😀. The scent is kinda nauseating though.


----------



## Nuno Campos

erufael said:


> 120 😀. The scent is kinda nauseating though.


It’s probably the glue and if you assembled the screen recently it might smell for a while. Any air circulation in the space where you have it will help.


----------



## toxtrepla

erufael said:


> Anyone get an AWOL ALR screen? Just finished getting the projector screen hung and there’s a strong scent coming from the screen? Curious how quickly that smell dissipates?


My 150 inch ALR from AWOL had no real smell to it at all actually. I would give it a day or so to see how it airs out.


----------



## leo0111127

Nuno Campos said:


> My biggest complaint with these shootout is that I always feels they use the standard tools for calibration to access a projector’s worth. Let me clarify what I mean, as much as it is wise to use the S&M disc and clips to judge the image, I always feel that is not a real world test. I know it might have something to do with these shootouts being filmed and put on youtube and they don’t want t get them copyright striked and removed, but I always feel that this does not do any projector justice. This last one organized by VE felt exactly like that, a bunch of clips and pictures of flowers and nature that while look amazing, are not representative of real world usage. Another thing I find odd is that no one seems to mention RBE. The LG HU915QB page here on the forum is full of users that found this projector to be disappointing because of this. And they are using real clips of movies. And yet, this projector always get top marks on picture.
> Another thing that is never taken into consideration is 3D, or to better put it, how good or bad is it. Is it bright or dim, how much crosstalk is there?
> Brian, maybe the next shootout you participate or organize can be a 3D battle of the best. Maybe Xpand can sponsor it, as their glasses seem to be the best option for either lcd or dlp projectors.


To be honest, the Hook Up's test and review is more comprehensive and attractive.


----------



## ProjectionHead

leo0111127 said:


> To be honest, the Hook Up's test and review is more comprehensive and attractive.


He did a really good job for sure.
Interesting enough, he borrowed several units from us which we have different brightness measurements for on the same exact unit.
Measuring brightness on USTs is really quite a pain as even the slightest tilt/twist of the meter can significantly affect the results.


----------



## Nuno Campos

leo0111127 said:


> To be honest, the Hook Up's test and review is more comprehensive and attractive.


Just finished watching the video. Wow. This guy *ABSOLUTELY* needs to be involved in the next shootout that is organized. I cannot believe he designed a test for RBE. What an amazing tool to have. Glad to see the AWOL pass with flying colors. And he also did that focus analysis I suggested for the next shootout. So Brian, please make sure he’s involved/invited for whatever shootout you organize next.
I guess the most amazing thing is that this video is only 21 minutes and is packed with a ton more information that every other video I have seen, and that includes video reviews for a single projector. And to think the VE shootout video was something like 7 hours long, and no one bother to edited down to something this informative.
I only wish he had done a 3D comparisson being that thorough. But this video is absolutely recommended for anyone looking or even undecided on which projector to get.


----------



## rooterha

Nuno Campos said:


> Just finished watching the video. Wow. This guy *ABSOLUTELY* needs to be involved in the next shootout that is organized. I cannot believe he designed a test for RBE. What an amazing tool to have. Glad to see the AWOL pass with flying colors. And he also did that focus analysis I suggested for the next shootout. So Brian, please make sure he’s involved/invited for whatever shootout you organize next.
> I guess the most amazing thing is that this video is only 21 minutes and is packed with a ton more information that every other video I have seen, and that includes video reviews for a single projector. And to think the VE shootout video was something like 7 hours long, and no one bother to edited down to something this informative.
> I only wish he had done a 3D comparisson being that thorough. But this video is absolutely recommended for anyone looking or even undecided on which projector to get.


Yup agreed - pretty excellent considering how much comparison was done in such a short time.


----------



## Dgtr74

Nuno Campos said:


> Just finished watching the video. Wow. This guy *ABSOLUTELY* needs to be involved in the next shootout that is organized. I cannot believe he designed a test for RBE. What an amazing tool to have. Glad to see the AWOL pass with flying colors. And he also did that focus analysis I suggested for the next shootout. So Brian, please make sure he’s involved/invited for whatever shootout you organize next.
> I guess the most amazing thing is that this video is only 21 minutes and is packed with a ton more information that every other video I have seen, and that includes video reviews for a single projector. And to think the VE shootout video was something like 7 hours long, and no one bother to edited down to something this informative.
> I only wish he had done a 3D comparisson being that thorough. But this video is absolutely recommended for anyone looking or even undecided on which projector to get.


Agreed. I really enjoyed this real world un-biased comparison as well. Incredible amount of work and testing methodology. He calls it out the way it is. The 3500 did this well even before the enhanced black update (which I’m running now). From my own testing and experience so far, it will place right up there among the tops when it comes to the rating for contrast and intra-scene contrast boosting the overall score even higher. I too would like to see a 3D comparison shootout among all the capable projectors.


----------



## cec68

Dgtr74 said:


> The 3500 did this well even before the enhanced black update (which I’m running now)


Is this the beta? Or has it been released for everyone?


----------



## Dgtr74

cec68 said:


> Is this the beta? Or has it been released for everyone?


I’m running the beta. AWOL informed me recently they are cleaning up some remaining bugs and fine tuning the update and will be released soon to the masses.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> If the Hisense PX1-Pro, AWOL and others have the same gamut coverage and were calibrated by the same person using the same tools, wouldn’t one expect the judges to score them the same in that category? Same for accuracy and skin tone?
> 
> Perhaps contrast or other settings/things played into how a judge perceived other variables, following the specific directions of how to score them.
> 
> I am sure these types of things and comments will be considered for next years Showdown





Casey_Bryson said:


> We know that's not the case because they also scored the colors/skin tone as a 10 for AWOL. So the 77 is more accurate!? Or maybe all these numbers are skewed because they were comparing it to a single laser JVC!? It's hard to explain except for human error. I'll be nice and say we'd all fail the Pepsi blind test.
> 
> View attachment 3374254





ProjectionHead said:


> ……..or possibly how other options in the projectors menu may influence the image, beyond the “dots in the boxes” color calibration


Bingo!!!


----------



## Brajesh

So, I've had quite an experimentation journey, back-and-forth, between FMT & AWOL 3500, and 3 types of screens (a 145" 1.3 gain Akia white thin bezel, a 120" Vividstorm 0.6 gain ALR & finally now a 150" Silver Ticket 1.0 gain grey thin bezel). Although there's no such thing as being done with this hobby 🤪, I'm in Home Theater nirvana at the moment w/the AWOL & the Silver Ticket 1.0 grey thin bezel). If you have a fully light-controlled room & want a huge screen, ALR is not necessary... go grey 1.0 gain. Wish I'd gone 160" 😜. Screenshots don't do justice to the IMAX-like feel, and accurate colors & really good blacks (w/the beta firmware + @Dave Harper's latest HDFury discovery)...






























































These two screenshots are in HDR10+ off Vero 4K+ from the Int'l Space Station clip...


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nuno Campos said:


> So Brian, please make sure he’s involved/invited for whatever shootout you organize next.


Fortunately we’ve now got a direct line of communication since I helped with some units for the video. I would most certainly invite him for any event that I direct or suggest his name to the decision makers should be participate in other ones.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> So, I've had quite an experimentation journey, back-and-forth, between FMT & AWOL 3500, and 3 types of screens (a 145" 1.3 gain Akia white thin bezel, a 120" Vividstorm 0.6 gain ALR & finally now a 150" Silver Ticket 1.0 gain grey thin bezel). Although there's no such thing as being done with this hobby 🤪, I'm in Home Theater nirvana at the moment w/the AWOL & the Silver Ticket 1.0 grey thin bezel). If you have a fully light-controlled room & want a huge screen, ALR is not necessary... go grey 1.0 gain. Wish I'd gone 160" 😜. Screenshots don't do justice to the IMAX-like feel, and accurate colors & really good blacks (w/the beta firmware + @Dave Harper's latest HDFury discovery)...
> View attachment 3374806
> View attachment 3374813
> View attachment 3374809
> View attachment 3374816
> View attachment 3374812
> View attachment 3374815
> View attachment 3374810
> View attachment 3374808
> View attachment 3374807
> View attachment 3374814
> 
> 
> These two screenshots are in HDR10+ off Vero 4K+ from the Int'l Space Station clip...
> View attachment 3374820
> View attachment 3374821


Damn, that looks fantastic! I was going to ask you about the 150” inch screen you had mentioned you bought awhile ago. Thanks to you and @Dave Harper, I just bought an HD Fury VRROOM! Never ending hobby for sure😂.


----------



## Brajesh

Think I’m in agreement with Dave that we may not need native DV as HDFury seems to tone map so well. Just need AWOL to fix 3D back to how it was with enhanced blacks intact.


----------



## jeff9n

Brajesh said:


> So, I've had quite an experimentation journey, back-and-forth, between FMT & AWOL 3500, and 3 types of screens (a 145" 1.3 gain Akia white thin bezel, a 120" Vividstorm 0.6 gain ALR & finally now a 150" Silver Ticket 1.0 gain grey thin bezel). Although there's no such thing as being done with this hobby 🤪, I'm in Home Theater nirvana at the moment w/the AWOL & the Silver Ticket 1.0 grey thin bezel). If you have a fully light-controlled room & want a huge screen, ALR is not necessary... go grey 1.0 gain. Wish I'd gone 160" 😜. Screenshots don't do justice to the IMAX-like feel, and accurate colors & really good blacks (w/the beta firmware + @Dave Harper's latest HDFury discovery)...
> View attachment 3374806
> View attachment 3374813
> View attachment 3374809
> View attachment 3374816
> View attachment 3374812
> View attachment 3374815
> View attachment 3374810
> View attachment 3374808
> View attachment 3374807
> View attachment 3374814
> 
> 
> These two screenshots are in HDR10+ off Vero 4K+ from the Int'l Space Station clip...
> View attachment 3374820
> View attachment 3374821


It's all about the immersive theater viewing experience. You can never achieve that with smaller projector screens. It has to be at least 150 inch or bigger.


----------



## Dgtr74

jeff9n said:


> It's all about the immersive theater viewing experience. You can never achieve that with smaller projector screens. It has to be at least 150 inch or bigger.


I think with the brightness of the 3500, would be curious to see how it would do with a 160” or larger.😀 My living room can handle 155” max (which will do for now until I get my home theater room built).


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Think I’m in agreement with Dave that we may not need native DV as HDFury seems to tone map so well. Just need AWOL to fix 3D back to how it was with enhanced blacks intact.


My HD Fury VRROOM just arrived. Curious to know if you’ve made any adjustments from Dave’s settings. If so, if you can share those settings would be great. I’m definitely a noob when it comes to HD Fury stuff but taking a vacation soon and will have some time to dive into it with some testing of my own.


----------



## jeff9n

Dgtr74 said:


> I think with the brightness of the 3500, would be curious to see how it would do with a 160” or larger.😀 My living room can handle 155” max (which will do for now until I get my home theater room built).


I have a 165-in screen but can only get about 155in due to the ceiling height limitation (8ft). My projector is an older Xiaomi 4K UST. I am sure the brighter AWOL 3500 will do just fine.


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> My HD Fury VRROOM just arrived. Curious to know if you’ve made any adjustments from Dave’s settings. If so, if you can share those settings would be great. I’m definitely a noob when it comes to HD Fury stuff but taking a vacation soon and will have some time to dive into it with some testing of my own.


VRROOM's UI looks a tad bit different than the Vertex2 Dave used in his instructions...



















My AWOL reported the following under VRROOM's CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section, but not sure if this varies from one unit to another... so you should play a HDR source & verify...
87:01:1A:C4:02:00:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00

The, I zero'd out everyting after 02 as instructed
87:01:1A:C4:02:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> VRROOM's UI looks a tad bit different than the Vertex2 Dave used in his instructions...
> View attachment 3374896
> View attachment 3374897
> View attachment 3374898
> 
> My AWOL reported the following under VRROOM's CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section, but not sure if this varies from one unit to another... so you should play a HDR source & verify...
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
> 
> The, I zero'd out everyting after 02 as instructed
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00


That is very helpful! Thanks. I didn’t know the UI looked different b/t the different HD Fury models so this will be a time saver. 🙏


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> So, I've had quite an experimentation journey, back-and-forth, between FMT & AWOL 3500, and 3 types of screens (a 145" 1.3 gain Akia white thin bezel, a 120" Vividstorm 0.6 gain ALR & finally now a 150" Silver Ticket 1.0 gain grey thin bezel). Although there's no such thing as being done with this hobby 🤪, I'm in Home Theater nirvana at the moment w/the AWOL & the Silver Ticket 1.0 grey thin bezel). If you have a fully light-controlled room & want a huge screen, ALR is not necessary... go grey 1.0 gain. Wish I'd gone 160" 😜. Screenshots don't do justice to the IMAX-like feel, and accurate colors & really good blacks (w/the beta firmware + @Dave Harper's latest HDFury discovery)...
> View attachment 3374806
> View attachment 3374813
> View attachment 3374809
> View attachment 3374816
> View attachment 3374812
> View attachment 3374815
> View attachment 3374810
> View attachment 3374808
> View attachment 3374807
> View attachment 3374814
> 
> 
> These two screenshots are in HDR10+ off Vero 4K+ from the Int'l Space Station clip...
> View attachment 3374820
> View attachment 3374821


These pics look great and I echo your conclusion after constant searching for the right projector. Quick question, what is this new HDFURY discovery you’re talking about and how does the gray screen differ from the white?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Every time @Brajesh talks about 150" I re-measure my room to see if it will fit...like "this time it will fit"... and then...(holds fist up✊) "DAMNIT!"😉😄


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Brajesh said:


> VRROOM's UI looks a tad bit different than the Vertex2 Dave used in his instructions...
> View attachment 3374896
> View attachment 3374897
> View attachment 3374898
> 
> My AWOL reported the following under VRROOM's CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section, but not sure if this varies from one unit to another... so you should play a HDR source & verify...
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
> 
> The, I zero'd out everyting after 02 as instructed
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00


Brajesh what does your tag at the bottom of the screen say when you have all this right? Mine is saying HDR but not LLDV.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> Think I’m in agreement with Dave that we may not need native DV as HDFury seems to tone map so well. Just need AWOL to fix 3D back to how it was with enhanced blacks intact.


You are still getting pure Dolby Vision when you use the HDFURY. It is the low latency version but it is still 100% Dolby Vision. Also it is not the HDFury doing any tone mapping at all. It just signals the source to use it’s Dolby Vision LLDV processing and that does the tone mapping in the source device. 

If you are talking about native DV on the projector then yes I agree this way is better than using the projector’s native built-in Dolby Vision processing which would be when you send the full RGB 8 bit Dolby Vision. 



arsenalfc89 said:


> These pics look great and I echo your conclusion after constant searching for the right projector. Quick question, what is this new HDFURY discovery you’re talking about and how does the gray screen differ from the white?


This is the latest HDFury discovery settings that are easily the best so far on everything I have tried it on up till this point:









Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on...


For the HDR metadata, I think what may be happening is this is enabling custom HDR with ST.2084 but without specifying min/max luminance, maxCLL and maxFALL. In particular, this will probably have greatest effect on projectors that use these values to adjust their HDR tone mapping curve (e.g...




www.avsforum.com







Kyle Gallagher said:


> Brajesh what does your tag at the bottom of the screen say when you have all this right? Mine is saying HDR but not LLDV.


This is normal. You are getting an HDR signal out of the HD fury when it adds it’s a HDR metadata to the LLDV signal that is coming from your source device such as an Apple TV or Z9X.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Dave Harper said:


> This is normal. You are getting an HDR signal out of the HD fury when it adds it’s a HDR metadata to the LLDV signal that is coming from your source device such as an Apple TV or Z9X.


Thank you. I was at one point getting LLDV in the OSD and was confused when it changed to only HDR. Getting less "burnt" looking colors with whatever settings I have on the VROOM, mostly that was happening in the low oranges and reds.

I'm slowly figuring out the colors on this projector- they're very different from the way my Xiaomi 4k operated. But man is it a learning experience, have to not be afraid to try everything. Appreciate all the help from everyone on here.


----------



## Nuno Campos

Brajesh said:


> So, I've had quite an experimentation journey, back-and-forth, between FMT & AWOL 3500, and 3 types of screens (a 145" 1.3 gain Akia white thin bezel, a 120" Vividstorm 0.6 gain ALR & finally now a 150" Silver Ticket 1.0 gain grey thin bezel). Although there's no such thing as being done with this hobby 🤪, I'm in Home Theater nirvana at the moment w/the AWOL & the Silver Ticket 1.0 grey thin bezel). If you have a fully light-controlled room & want a huge screen, ALR is not necessary... go grey 1.0 gain. Wish I'd gone 160" 😜. Screenshots don't do justice to the IMAX-like feel, and accurate colors & really good blacks (w/the beta firmware + @Dave Harper's latest HDFury discovery)...
> View attachment 3374806
> View attachment 3374813
> View attachment 3374809
> View attachment 3374816
> View attachment 3374812
> View attachment 3374815
> View attachment 3374810
> View attachment 3374808
> View attachment 3374807
> View attachment 3374814
> 
> 
> These two screenshots are in HDR10+ off Vero 4K+ from the Int'l Space Station clip...
> View attachment 3374820
> View attachment 3374821


That looks awesome. And glad to see the AWOL be this crisp at this size. Can I ask you for a pic with the lights on? I want to see how you have placed the speakers along the screen, specially the center channel.


----------



## adrift

Dave Harper said:


> If you are talking about native DV on the projector then yes I agree this way is better than using the projector’s native built-in Dolby Vision processing which would be when you send the full RGB 8 bit Dolby Vision.


Just to be clear, you're saying that even when the 3500 has the capability to playback Dolby Vision, it still wouldn't be as good as running a source with DV through an HDFury? Why is this?


----------



## Roger Burke

Nazgul said:


> Just curious, is 3D like insanely mind-blowing on projectors? Coming from conventional TV's I never see anyone talk about or mention 3D, but I see it not infrequently with projectors. Am I missing something? Are there like a ton of 3D movies out there that I'm not aware of or are 3D projectors somehow making Non-3D movies 3D?


The 3d is mindblowing. Great depth and very bright.


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> I think with the brightness of the 3500, would be curious to see how it would do with a 160” or larger.😀 My living room can handle 155” max (which will do for now until I get my home theater room built).





Casey_Bryson said:


> Every time @Brajesh talks about 150" I re-measure my room to see if it will fit...like "this time it will fit"... and then...(holds fist up✊) "DAMNIT!"😉😄


Ha ha, yes. My room probably could handle 155" like @Dgtr74's as I only have about 3" now from the top of my 150" screen to the ceiling, and my AWOL is practically on the floor (see pics below). At 150", picture isn't as sharp as expected as with 120", but at my viewing distance of about 14ft, it looks great. If you're sitting closer, 120" may be better.


arsenalfc89 said:


> These pics look great and I echo your conclusion after constant searching for the right projector. Quick question, what is this new HDFURY discovery you’re talking about and how does the gray screen differ from the white?


Dave posted the link to his latest HDFury discovery settings above. The gray screen helps improve blacks, and fares a little better w/some ambient light (but, not as much obviously as w/ALR).


Nuno Campos said:


> That looks awesome. And glad to see the AWOL be this crisp at this size. Can I ask you for a pic with the lights on? I want to see how you have placed the speakers along the screen, specially the center channel.


Sure. I have a platform, which helps w/center channel speaker placement, but this same platform has proved to be a pain with UST projector placement. When I built my theater, I didn't know I'd be going UST vs. long throw.


----------



## Nuno Campos

Brajesh said:


> Ha ha, yes. My room probably could handle 155" like @Dgtr74's as I only have about 3" now from the top of my 150" screen to the ceiling, and my AWOL is practically on the floor (see pics below). At 150", picture isn't as sharp as expected as with 120", but at my viewing distance of about 14ft, it looks great. If you're sitting closer, 120" may be better.
> 
> Dave posted the link to his latest HDFury discovery settings above. The gray screen helps improve blacks, and fares a little better w/some ambient light (but, not as much obviously as w/ALR).
> 
> Sure. I have a platform, which helps w/center channel speaker placement, but this same platform has proved to be a pain with UST projector placement. When I built my theater, I didn't know I'd be going UST vs. long throw.
> View attachment 3375074
> View attachment 3375073
> View attachment 3375075
> View attachment 3375076
> View attachment 3375077


I really like that entire step from side to side where you have the speakers. Judging by the pictures, you could have an even bigger center speaker and it would not interfere with the picture. And you have the center speaker angled to your viewing position. Very nice. Your home cinema gets top marks.
Have you trough about having some sort of wall built on the AWOL’s sides that are exposed, possibly even covered but the same material as the floor carpet? Nothing to high, but something that would stop anyone (children or pets) from bumping into it and mis-aligning the image.


----------



## Brajesh

Aesthetically, that platform/riser may look nice, but it prevents me from pushing the UST more forward than where it is. Thankfully, w/AWOL & 150" screen, it just works, but w/other UST's I've tried it hasn't... where I either need to use a smaller screen or mask off an existing one to make the viewing area smaller.

For the AWOL itself, I have it covered w/this cheapo cover, but will look to build some kind of enclosure.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> VRROOM's UI looks a tad bit different than the Vertex2 Dave used in his instructions...
> View attachment 3374896
> View attachment 3374897
> View attachment 3374898
> 
> My AWOL reported the following under VRROOM's CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section, but not sure if this varies from one unit to another... so you should play a HDR source & verify...
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:50:C3:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00
> 
> The, I zero'd out everyting after 02 as instructed
> 87:01:1A:C4:02:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00:00


@Brajesh So, I tried to setup the vrroom last night and inputted the recommended settings into the GUI. I have the Zidoo and Nvidia Shield plugged into the vrroom with a high quality hdmi cable and the vrroom goes to the AVR and AVR to the AWOL using the recommended 8K hdmi cables from HD Fury team. I was only able to get a picture from the Zidoo but cannot use the Shield at all. There is no picture when I switch to the input that it is on. I even switched hdmi cables with the Zidoo and still no picture output from the Shield. Any solutions to fix this?

Also, I have a couple of HDR10+ clips that you shared and I can’t get that to play from the Zidoo when it’s hooked up to the vrroom. Not sure why that is the case.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

HDFury is coming out with a new 8K Arcana VRR: 8K Arcana VRR 40Gbps | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI

Would it be the same specs or better but a smaller version of the current VRROOM?

Was about the purchase the VRROOM, but I can wait until March for the 8K Arcana VRR.


----------



## Nuno Campos

luisenriquereyes said:


> HDFury is coming out with a new 8K Arcana VRR: 8K Arcana VRR 40Gbps | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI
> 
> Would it be the same specs or better but a smaller version of the current VRROOM?
> 
> Was about the purchase the VRROOM, but I can wait until March for the 8K Arcana VRR.


The Arcana only has one hdmi in, where as the vrroom has several more, so I would look i to how many you’ll need. All you need is a streaming device and a games console, and with the arcana you have to swap cables.


----------



## erufael

Got a newb question here. I have my AWOL connected to a marantz receiver using the HDMI2 (eARC) input, and my devices (appleTV, PS4, etc) connected to the receiver's various HDMI inputs. All is working fine, however when I use the AWOL controller to turn everything on, it turns on the projector and the receiver, but the power to my appleTv doesn't come on right away. I'm wondering if there is a way for my appleTV to be connected a different AWOL input like HDMI3 as opposed to connected to my receiver, but sound come from my receiver (which is connected to AWOL Input HDMI2). Or could I connect an optical cord from my AWOL to my marantz receiver? But if I do that and select AWOL Input HDMI3, how does my receiver know to play the sound when the appleTV is not connected to any of the Marantz HDMI inputs. Hopefully this scenario makes sense to someone out there.


----------



## Roger Burke

Marc D Carra said:


> Are there any Canadians who ordered directly from Awolvision? If so were you charged additional taxes/import fees when your order arrived? I messaged Awolvision but haven't received a reply.


$44.00 Canadian.


----------



## Roger Burke

Marc D Carra said:


> Are there any Canadians who ordered directly from Awolvision? If so were you charged additional taxes/import fees when your order arrived? I messaged Awolvision but haven't received a reply.





erufael said:


> Got a newb question here. I have my AWOL connected to a marantz receiver using the HDMI2 (eARC) input, and my devices (appleTV, PS4, etc) connected to the receiver's various HDMI inputs. All is working fine, however when I use the AWOL controller to turn everything on, it turns on the projector and the receiver, but the power to my appleTv doesn't come on right away. I'm wondering if there is a way for my appleTV to be connected a different AWOL input like HDMI3 as opposed to connected to my receiver, but sound come from my receiver (which is connected to AWOL Input HDMI2). Or could I connect an optical cord from my AWOL to my marantz receiver? But if I do that and select AWOL Input HDMI3, how does my receiver know to play the sound when the appleTV is not connected to any of the Marantz HDMI inputs. Hopefully this scenario makes sense to someone out there.


That was international customs, by the way.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Roger Burke said:


> $44.00 Canadian.


Thanks for the reply Roger! So this was a customs importation fee, not taxes (gst/hst)?


----------



## Brajesh

@Dgtr74, do you have the latest VRROOM .36 firmware installed? What AVR do you have?

First thing I’d try for your Shield is going from it to VRROOM to projector, bypassing your AVR.

For my Zidoo, for now, I’m not using VRROOM, rather going to AVR (mine’s an Onkyo RZ50) to AWOL.

Also try HDMI3 on AWOL, think it’s the one w/o eARC.

Don’t worry, you’ll get it working. There can be some trial & error involved with this.


----------



## erufael

erufael said:


> Got a newb question here. I have my AWOL connected to a marantz receiver using the HDMI2 (eARC) input, and my devices (appleTV, PS4, etc) connected to the receiver's various HDMI inputs. All is working fine, however when I use the AWOL controller to turn everything on, it turns on the projector and the receiver, but the power to my appleTv doesn't come on right away. I'm wondering if there is a way for my appleTV to be connected a different AWOL input like HDMI3 as opposed to connected to my receiver, but sound come from my receiver (which is connected to AWOL Input HDMI2). Or could I connect an optical cord from my AWOL to my marantz receiver? But if I do that and select AWOL Input HDMI3, how does my receiver know to play the sound when the appleTV is not connected to any of the Marantz HDMI inputs. Hopefully this scenario makes sense to someone out there.


Or asked a different way, if I used the Amazon stick in HDMI1, how can I get it to display sounds from my Marantz receiver instead of the onboard speakers on the AWOL.


----------



## AV_Integrated

erufael said:


> Or asked a different way, if I used the Amazon stick in HDMI1, how can I get it to display sounds from my Marantz receiver instead of the onboard speakers on the AWOL.


If HDMI 2 on the AWOL is the eARC connection, then when you use any other HDMI input on the AWOL, it should broadcast audio back to your receiver in the highest audio format that it supports automatically. So, if you use HDMI 1 on the AWOL, it should tell your Marantz to use the eARC audio connection and audio from HDMI 1 will be 'RETURNED' to the Marantz for playback. eARC supports lossless audio including Atmos. Now, the rub: It is up to the manufacturer (AWOL) to support Atmos and HD audio on all HDMI inputs when eARC is being used.

Typically, you would go into the audio settings of the projector and disable the internal speakers. That's the way it is with televisions for sure.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> @Dgtr74, do you have the latest VRROOM .36 firmware installed? What AVR do you have?
> 
> First thing I’d try for your Shield is going from it to VRROOM to projector, bypassing your AVR.
> 
> For my Zidoo, for now, I’m not using VRROOM, rather going to AVR (mine’s an Onkyo RZ50) to AWOL.
> 
> Also try HDMI3 on AWOL, think it’s the one w/o eARC.
> 
> Don’t worry, you’ll get it working. There can be some trial & error involved with this.


Thanks! I’ll try to play with it later after work. Yep, I need to update the firmware. I think firmware is version .34. My receiver is a Nakamichi soundbar.


----------



## Brajesh

F/w may not make a difference, but worth a try. If your receiver previously passed HDR10+, then it should still be able to w/HDFury in the mix.


----------



## erufael

AV_Integrated said:


> If HDMI 2 on the AWOL is the eARC connection, then when you use any other HDMI input on the AWOL, it should broadcast audio back to your receiver in the highest audio format that it supports automatically. So, if you use HDMI 1 on the AWOL, it should tell your Marantz to use the eARC audio connection and audio from HDMI 1 will be 'RETURNED' to the Marantz for playback. eARC supports lossless audio including Atmos. Now, the rub: It is up to the manufacturer (AWOL) to support Atmos and HD audio on all HDMI inputs when eARC is being used.
> 
> Typically, you would go into the audio settings of the projector and disable the internal speakers. That's the way it is with televisions for sure.


Thanks for your post. I tried that but it's not playing anything when I use HDMI1 on the AWOL. When I click on volume up on the AWOL controller, it just says HDMI/eARC on the screen but doesn't actually increase volume.


----------



## Vargus

Just received my LTV-3500, fired it up and nothing… I can hear the start-up sequence and messing with the remote sounds like I’m navigating menus, but no projection. I really hope I’m just missing something stupid. Any suggestions?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Vargus said:


> Just received my LTV-3500, fired it up and nothing… I can hear the start-up sequence and messing with the remote sounds like I’m navigating menus, but no projection. I really hope I’m just missing something stupid. Any suggestions?


I've had this happen twice. Sounds like it's every time right? If so contact [email protected]


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> @Dgtr74, do you have the latest VRROOM .36 firmware installed? What AVR do you have?
> 
> First thing I’d try for your Shield is going from it to VRROOM to projector, bypassing your AVR.
> 
> For my Zidoo, for now, I’m not using VRROOM, rather going to AVR (mine’s an Onkyo RZ50) to AWOL.
> 
> Also try HDMI3 on AWOL, think it’s the one w/o eARC.
> 
> Don’t worry, you’ll get it working. There can be some trial & error involved with this.


Definitely trial and error…lol. Looks like I will need a different cable going from the Shield to VRROOM to enable DV. This time I got a picture through bypassing the receiver and connected the VRROOM directly to HDMI 3 on the AWOL. Baby steps but getting there…


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Definitely trial and error…lol. Looks like I will need a different cable going from the Shield to VRROOM to enable DV. This time I got a picture through bypassing the receiver and connected the VRROOM directly to HDMI 3 on the AWOL. Baby steps but getting there…
> View attachment 3375488


Got DV working now with a different HDMI cable. Weird that it says “HDR null” when DV is enabled.


----------



## Marc D Carra

Dgtr74 said:


> Got DV working now with a different HDMI cable. Weird that it says “HDR null” when DV is enabled.
> View attachment 3375493


I saw the same "HDR null" mode when using my Vertex2.


----------



## Venomx99

Is there a pro to using an Vertex2 vs an Arcana? From what I can tell the Arcana will enable LLDV and is about $170 less that the Vertex2.


----------



## Brajesh

Arcana is fine. Just that it only has a single HDMI source input vs. four on Vertex2.


----------



## Venomx99

Brajesh said:


> Arcana is fine. Just that it only has a single HDMI source input vs. four on Vertex2.


Thanks. Do both trigger the 3500 to switch to HDR when LLDV signal is detected?


----------



## Brajesh

I only have experience with VRROOM, but should, yes. HDFury's discord channel is quite helpful for quick questions, suggestions.


----------



## Dgtr74

After hours of messing around with the VRROOM, updating all my HDMI cables, and re-hooked up all my connections, happy to report that everything is running perfectly with all my devices hooked up to the 4 HDMI ports of the VRROOM and now all have DV and ATMOS sound fully enabled.😅 Ran a bunch of tests and can say that the AWOL 3500/VRROOM combination just destroyed every test I threw at it. It processed the 10,000 nit S&M Dolby Vision benchmark clip like it was nothing. Incredible tone mapping!


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> After hours of messing around with the VRROOM, updating all my HDMI cables, and re-hooked up all my connections, happy to report that everything is running perfectly with all my devices hooked up to the 4 HDMI ports of the VRROOM and now all have DV and ATMOS sound fully enabled.😅 Ran a bunch of tests and can say that the AWOL 3500/VRROOM combination just destroyed every test I threw at it. It processed the 10,000 nit S&M Dolby Vision benchmark clip like it was nothing. Incredible tone mapping!
> View attachment 3376108
> 
> View attachment 3376111
> 
> View attachment 3376116
> 
> View attachment 3376107
> 
> View attachment 3376109
> 
> View attachment 3376115
> 
> View attachment 3376117
> 
> View attachment 3376110
> 
> View attachment 3376114
> 
> View attachment 3376106
> 
> View attachment 3376112
> 
> View attachment 3376113


Once again you deliver on the goods. That looks stunning. Maybe using the vrroom should become standard on the shootouts going forward. It’s gonna be interesting to compare this setup with the AWOL DV capability on its own.


----------



## Brajesh

+1 … looks gorgeous @Dgtr74! Congrats!

Are all those pictures from the S&M disc? I know the clip with horses in the snow is. May have to buy it.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> +1 … looks gorgeous @Dgtr74! Congrats!
> 
> Are all those pictures from the S&M disc? I know the clip with horses in the snow is. May have to buy it.


Thanks @Brajesh! Yes, this was taken from the 10,000 nit DV clip test. There’s many more sections to it and a bunch of individual tests. I think I’m done testing for now..lol. My kids are like “dad you’re always testing your projector…when are we going to watch movies?”😂. Heading to work now and will be watching DV movies with the kids tonight!😀


----------



## colinmatheny11

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks @Brajesh! Yes, this was taken from the 10,000 nit DV clip test. There’s many more sections to it and a bunch of individual tests. I think I’m done testing for now..lol. My kids are like “dad you’re always testing your projector…when are we going to watch movies?”. Heading to work now and will be watching DV movies with the kids tonight!


Do you mind posting your VRROOM settings? I’m trying to set mine up to run my Apple TV, 4k disc player and Xbox Series X thru the VRROOM first then to the projector. Mainly interested in the splitter settings.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vargus

Casey_Bryson said:


> I've had this happen twice. Sounds like it's every time right? If so contact [email protected]


 Email bounced back. It's [email protected]. I called support yesterday and they sent a message to an engineer in China. Received a response last night with potential issues and the engineer requesting I ship the defective unit back. Just received confirmation of a new unit being shipped today with a shipping label for me to return the old one. So, some additional waiting and a little inconvenience on my side, but at least they addressed the situation promptly. Hopefully be up and running soon.


----------



## Marc D Carra

I just tried @Dave Harper 's latest Vertex2 discovery with my Awolvision LTV-3500, and the results are jaw dropping. Just like @Dgtr74 's fantastic photos, every disc I tried looked dramatically better than my old Vertex2 settings. I think this is the pinnacle of the HDFury at work right here. I've followed the numerous threads where the other experts have argued with Dave that it shouldn't work ( all the while not trying it for themselves). Well put me in the 100% convinced group. I have seen the results with my own eyes. Five hours of testing tonight and I saw images that I never thought the Awolvision was capable of producing. With the new enhanced black level firmware coming any day now, this projector is definitely one of the best in its price range, and maybe beyond!


----------



## Dgtr74

Marc D Carra said:


> I just tried @Dave Harper 's latest Vertex2 discovery with my Awolvision LTV-3500, and the results are jaw dropping. Just like @Dgtr74 's fantastic photos, every disc I tried looked dramatically better than my old Vertex2 settings. I think this is the pinnacle of the HDFury at work right here. I've followed the numerous threads where the other experts have argued with Dave that it shouldn't work ( all the while not trying it for themselves). Well put me in the 100% convinced group. I have seen the results with my own eyes. Five hours of testing tonight and I saw images that I never thought the Awolvision was capable of producing. With the new enhanced black level firmware coming any day now, this projector is definitely one of the best in its price range, and maybe beyond!


Yep, the 3500/HDFury Just makes everything pop! Especially high quality source materials. I’ll be searching for the best source videos and put it through the AWOL. The image quality output is mesmerizing and addicting at the same time..lol. Really, there is no comparison. Just waiting for the 3D to be fixed before I start enjoying it again. Can’t wait to watch Avatar 2 3D at home!


----------



## Dgtr74

colinmatheny11 said:


> Do you mind posting your VRROOM settings? I’m trying to set mine up to run my Apple TV, 4k disc player and Xbox Series X thru the VRROOM first then to the projector. Mainly interested in the splitter settings.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I followed this guide to set everything up. I have my Zidoo z9x, Nvidia Shield, Sony UHD 3D blu-ray, and Firestick TV connected to the 4 HDMI inputs.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dgtr74 said:


> I followed this guide to set everything up. I have my Zidoo z9x, Nvidia Shield, Sony UHD 3D blu-ray, and Firestick TV connected to the 4 HDMI inputs.
> View attachment 3376597


If you have a receiver where does this come into play? Before or after?


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> If you have a receiver where does this come into play? Before or after?


Here’s a couple other scenarios. It gets pretty easy to set up once you mess with it for a bit.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> +1 … looks gorgeous @Dgtr74! Congrats!
> 
> Are all those pictures from the S&M disc? I know the clip with horses in the snow is. May have to buy it.


@Brajesh Here’s the horse in the snow scene (DV 10,000 nits) - I’m still amazed at the incredible tone mapping capability here and this still doesn‘t do the actual image justice.


----------



## Dave Harper

adrift said:


> Just to be clear, you're saying that even when the 3500 has the capability to playback Dolby Vision, it still wouldn't be as good as running a source with DV through an HDFury? Why is this?


Yes because from my experience, these built in DV implementations aren’t optimized well and always seem to be too dim and dull and boring compared especially to my latest LLDV iteration. 



Venomx99 said:


> Is there a pro to using an Vertex2 vs an Arcana? From what I can tell the Arcana will enable LLDV and is about $170 less that the Vertex2.





Brajesh said:


> Arcana is fine. Just that it only has a single HDMI source input vs. four on Vertex2.


And you can’t create custom EDIDs or DV data blocks. You’re stuck with the built in parameters it has, but most work fairly well. 



Venomx99 said:


> Thanks. Do both trigger the 3500 to switch to HDR when LLDV signal is detected?


If you send straight LLDV to the awol it won’t go into its hdr mode. It goes into its Dolby Vision mode. You’d have to have an HDFury to add hdr metadata to the LLDV signal for that to happen. 



Marc D Carra said:


> I just tried @Dave Harper 's latest Vertex2 discovery with my Awolvision LTV-3500, and the results are jaw dropping. Just like @Dgtr74 's fantastic photos, every disc I tried looked dramatically better than my old Vertex2 settings. I think this is the pinnacle of the HDFury at work right here. I've followed the numerous threads where the other experts have argued with Dave that it shouldn't work ( all the while not trying it for themselves). Well put me in the 100% convinced group. I have seen the results with my own eyes. Five hours of testing tonight and I saw images that I never thought the Awolvision was capable of producing. With the new enhanced black level firmware coming any day now, this projector is definitely one of the best in its price range, and maybe beyond!


Need I say….._”I told ya so!!!”_ 

Please go back to those threads and post your experiences. 

It would be nice if they actually took the time to listen and actually try what I tell them instead of staying in their walled garden of Hex strings and EDIDs!!!


----------



## brokenconduit

Marc D Carra said:


> I just tried @Dave Harper 's latest Vertex2 discovery with my Awolvision LTV-3500, and the results are jaw dropping. Just like @Dgtr74 's fantastic photos, every disc I tried looked dramatically better than my old Vertex2 settings. I think this is the pinnacle of the HDFury at work right here. I've followed the numerous threads where the other experts have argued with Dave that it shouldn't work ( all the while not trying it for themselves). Well put me in the 100% convinced group. I have seen the results with my own eyes. Five hours of testing tonight and I saw images that I never thought the Awolvision was capable of producing. With the new enhanced black level firmware coming any day now, this projector is definitely one of the best in its price range, and maybe beyond!





Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, the 3500/HDFury Just makes everything pop! Especially high quality source materials. I’ll be searching for the best source videos and put it through the AWOL. The image quality output is mesmerizing and addicting at the same time..lol. Really, there is no comparison. Just waiting for the 3D to be fixed before I start enjoying it again. Can’t wait to watch Avatar 2 3D at home!





Dave Harper said:


> Yes because from my experience, these built in DV implementations aren’t optimized well and always seem to be too dim and dull and boring compared especially to my latest LLDV iteration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you can’t create custom EDIDs or DV data blocks. You’re stuck with the built in parameters it has, but most work fairly well.
> 
> 
> 
> If you send straight LLDV to the awol it won’t go into its hdr mode. It goes into its Dolby Vision mode. You’d have to have an HDFury to add hdr metadata to the LLDV signal for that to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Need I say….._”I told ya so!!!”_
> 
> Please go back to those threads and post your experiences.
> 
> It would be nice if they actually took the time to listen and actually try what I tell them instead of staying in their walled garden of Hex strings and EDIDs!!!


Are you all doing this on enhanced black versions of AWOL-3500? Or the current firmware? 

Is there a guide or learning curve to making this happen? Thank you!


----------



## Johnathan Jackson

So I just got my 3500 installed. This thing makes watching TV an addiction. Sheesh! I guess my next investment will be a Vertex2 or Vrroom. I'm leaning more towards the Vrroom. Even though I don't see 8K being a viable option in the future I think the headroom of 40 Gbps doesn't handicap you for several years. I'm curious to know do both of these units offer the same interface? Will I be able to take @Dave Harper 's settings for the Vertex2 and enter it for the Vrroom. Also, if anyone is interested, I have a 4K Arcana for sale. DM me for additional info.


----------



## Venomx99

Dave Harper said:


> Yes because from my experience, these built in DV implementations aren’t optimized well and always seem to be too dim and dull and boring compared especially to my latest LLDV iteration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And you can’t create custom EDIDs or DV data blocks. You’re stuck with the built in parameters it has, but most work fairly well.
> 
> 
> 
> If you send straight LLDV to the awol it won’t go into its hdr mode. It goes into its Dolby Vision mode. You’d have to have an HDFury to add hdr metadata to the LLDV signal for that to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Need I say….._”I told ya so!!!”_
> 
> Please go back to those threads and post your experiences.
> 
> It would be nice if they actually took the time to listen and actually try what I tell them instead of staying in their walled garden of Hex strings and EDIDs!!!


So initially, I was hesitant about getting the Vertex because it doesn't work with the Sonos Arc, which I have, but after looking into it more, I don't think it affects me. I'm not going to use the Vertex to split the audio, I'm connecting the Arc to the AWOL directly, so I should be good. Order the Vertex and should have it next week.


----------



## Dave Harper

brokenconduit said:


> Are you all doing this on enhanced black versions of AWOL-3500? Or the current firmware?
> 
> Is there a guide or learning curve to making this happen? Thank you!


I don’t have an AWOL here to try it. My part of this is a new LLDV iteration that’s been working incredibly on every projector I have tried it on though. Which apparently works well on the LTV-3500 too, based on this latest report.

Here is the link to my latest settings for LLDV using a Vertex2:









Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on...


For the HDR metadata, I think what may be happening is this is enabling custom HDR with ST.2084 but without specifying min/max luminance, maxCLL and maxFALL. In particular, this will probably have greatest effect on projectors that use these values to adjust their HDR tone mapping curve (e.g...




www.avsforum.com







Johnathan Jackson said:


> So I just got my 3500 installed. This thing makes watching TV an addiction. Sheesh! I guess my next investment will be a Vertex2 or Vrroom. I'm leaning more towards the Vrroom. Even though I don't see 8K being a viable option in the future I think the headroom of 40 Gbps doesn't handicap you for several years. I'm curious to know do both of these units offer the same interface? Will I be able to take @Dave Harper 's settings for the Vertex2 and enter it for the Vrroom. Also, if anyone is interested, I have a 4K Arcana for sale. DM me for additional info.


Yes I believe there are the same options on the VRROOM as the Vertex2, the GUI is just different in appearance.


----------



## Venomx99

@Dave Harper, when I get my Vertex 2 I can just input your latest settings and I'm good to go? Are there other settings changes I need to make?


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Just reviewed on Unbox Therapy 😁


----------



## Venomx99

Has anyone calibrated their 3500? I want to give it a go, so I got an i1Display Pro OEM, PGenerator, and ColourSpace ZRO. I'm reading as much as I can but would love some insight from those who have done it already.


----------



## invader zog

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, the 3500/HDFury Just makes everything pop! Especially high quality source materials. I’ll be searching for the best source videos and put it through the AWOL. The image quality output is mesmerizing and addicting at the same time..lol. Really, there is no comparison. Just waiting for the 3D to be fixed before I start enjoying it again. Can’t wait to watch Avatar 2 3D at home!


FYI - avatar 2 in (the right) theater is 48fps 3D which is not a traditional or supported format — so odds are decent that some of the action 3D scenes wont be quite as awesome as the big screen experience.


----------



## Brajesh

Really hope Avatar 2 gets a 3D Blu-ray release somewhere in the world. IMAX version would be icing on the cake.


----------



## adrift

luisenriquereyes said:


> Just reviewed on Unbox Therapy 😁


I admire his screen alignment.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

invader zog said:


> FYI - avatar 2 in (the right) theater is 48fps 3D which is not a traditional or supported format — so odds are decent that some of the action 3D scenes wont be quite as awesome as the big screen experience.


I'll likely prefer the 24fps version. I've seen both the Avatar re-release and Way of the Water in HFR and it was jarring every time it switched back and forth.not a fan! The only scenes that looked somewhat natural in HFR were the underwater scenes.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Really hope Avatar 2 gets a 3D Blu-ray release somewhere in the world. IMAX version would be icing on the cake.


Ironically Japan will probably get it even though it did horribly there. They have gotten the last two Disney 3D films in Love and Thunder and Multiverse of Madness.

I'd love to see Disney reverse course and release everything that was converted for 3D somewhere in the world theatrically on Blu-ray but I doubt even Avatar 2 will have that effect.

I think 3D's biggest hope (at home) is in the hands of Random Space Media and smaller publishers hands unless things change drastically.


----------



## brokenconduit

Brajesh said:


> Really hope Avatar 2 gets a 3D Blu-ray release somewhere in the world. IMAX version would be icing on the cake.


I just saw Avatar 2 yesterday, was quite the experience IMAX 3D. Highly recommend.

P.S. I am sure a bundle disc set will come out eventually with them all.


----------



## adrift

Casey_Bryson said:


> invader zog said:
> 
> 
> 
> FYI - avatar 2 in (the right) theater is 48fps 3D which is not a traditional or supported format — so odds are decent that some of the action 3D scenes wont be quite as awesome as the big screen experience.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll likely prefer the 24fps version. I've seen both the Avatar re-release and Way of the Water in HFR and it was jarring every time it switched back and forth.not a fan! The only scenes that looked somewhat natural in HFR were the underwater scenes.
Click to expand...

I saw it in a Dolby 3D cinema, and thought the increased frame rate, especially in action heavy scenes, looked great. In fact, it got to the point where the 24fps were the scenes that looked unnatural.


----------



## Brajesh

Saw it in IMAX 3D 24p, but planning to rewatch in Dolby 3D 48fps. I know some people hate HFR, but I love it. ‘Gemini Man’ HFR 4K for example looks great. Would be nice to have a new 4K 3D HFR format for home viewing, but don’t see that happening… so will settle for regular Blu-ray 3D.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Saw it in IMAX 3D 24p, but planning to rewatch in Dolby 3D 48fps. I know some people hate HFR, but I love it. ‘Gemini Man’ HFR 4K for example looks great. Would be nice to have a new 4K 3D HFR format for home viewing, but don’t see that happening… so will settle for regular Blu-ray 3D.


There was a 3D HFR version of The Hobbit being circulated on the interwebs back in the day 🤢
Gemini Man looked like crap in HFR. $2 special effects. 

Do you like the soap opera effect? I'm assuming you prefer that too??? I don't get how anyone can like it. It's like watching a bad play or live if you're on set. totally FAKE.


----------



## Brajesh

Don’t like SOE, but like the look of ‘Gemini Man’, at least on 60fps UHD.


----------



## adrift

Casey_Bryson said:


> Brajesh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Saw it in IMAX 3D 24p, but planning to rewatch in Dolby 3D 48fps. I know some people hate HFR, but I love it. ‘Gemini Man’ HFR 4K for example looks great. Would be nice to have a new 4K 3D HFR format for home viewing, but don’t see that happening… so will settle for regular Blu-ray 3D.
> 
> 
> 
> There was a 3D HFR version of The Hobbit being circulated on the interwebs back in the day 🤢
> Gemini Man looked like crap in HFR. $2 special effects.
> 
> Do you like the soap opera effect? I'm assuming you prefer that too??? I don't get how anyone can like it. It's like watching a bad play or live if you're on set. totally FAKE.
Click to expand...

I know this was addressed to Brajesh, but for the record the high frame rate in Avatar 2 was the only time I enjoyed the look. I thought it looked terrible in The Hobbit and Gemini Man. I think the only reason it looked so great in the Dolby cinema for Avatar 2 was because everything on screen was CGI and it helped keep action scenes look clean and bright which usually looks muddled at 24fps for 3D.

At any rate, though I thought the plot was childish nonsense, the Dolby 3D experience was very much like being on a theme park ride, and I was really hoping this film would be successful just so that it would rejuvenate interest in 3D, and I could have more films to feed my AWOL. 😋


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> Don’t like SOE, but like the look of ‘Gemini Man’, at least on 60fps UHD.


hmmm...interesting. I didn't see Gemini Man in 3D HFR I think they were showing it in 120fps in a few theaters. I know there are differences and sensitivities in our ocular senses. I did see Gemini man in 60fps in 4K HDR. What did you like about it? The hyper realness and sharper action scenes? Did you experience any soap opera effect? Just trying to understand.


----------



## Brajesh

Liked the hyper realness, sharpness. Plus the 1.85:1 picture vs. scope. Makes you feel like you're experiencing it real time. Not saying HFR is right for every kind of movie, but for this, thought it worked well.


----------



## yodathekid

Casey_Bryson said:


> hmmm...interesting. I didn't see Gemini Man in 3D HFR I think they were showing it in 120fps in a few theaters. I know there are differences and sensitivities in our ocular senses. I did see Gemini man in 60fps in 4K HDR. What did you like about it? The hyper realness and sharper action scenes? Did you experience any soap opera effect? Just trying to understand.


I saw Gemini Man at the AMC Metreon in Dolby. It was 120fps 2K 3D. Absolutely stunning. Like looking through a window. Got to see a Cinity demo about 6 months later and that was full 4K 120fps 3D, but only clips of the film. I hope more filmmakers get the chance to work with the HFR 3D format because every movie keeps improving or finding new techniques of making it look great.

The real question is will we ever see some version of it for home cinema. Maybe for HFR, but HFR 3D seems like an extremely long shot.


----------



## Dave Harper

Venomx99 said:


> @Dave Harper, when I get my Vertex 2 I can just input your latest settings and I'm good to go? Are there other settings changes I need to make?


In the Vertex2 yes just follow the steps in the link I posted above yours. 

I can’t speak for the settings on the 3500 as I haven’t used them on it yet.


----------



## Brajesh

Haven’t kept up with AWOL’s Facebook group… any word on new public firmware with enhanced blacks and fixed 3D playback?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Haven’t kept up with AWOL’s Facebook group… any word on new public firmware with enhanced blacks and fixed 3D playback?


No updates yet but looks like people are willing to wait to make sure the 3D function is perfect like before with the enhanced blacks. While waiting for 3D to be fixed, I’ve been testing a bunch of DV content on all my devices connected to the VRROOM and I have to say the 3500/HDFury combo in my setup produced some of the most amazingly bright and punchy DV images I’ve seen with much better detailed shadows vs standard HDR10. This is just on standard preset with standard laser light. Tested on Jeepers Creepers Reborn in DV and compared with regular HDR10. The DV image is incredibly contrasty with beautiful blacks and bright even on my 0.6 gain ALR screen. Daytime viewing with DV on is awesome as well. The only change I did from Dave’s setting is shown in the screen shot below. There’s still one issue I’m experiencing is my Zidoo when connected to the VRROOM will not output Atmos TrueHD 7.1 through my soundbar. Only Dolby Digital 5.1 will work. All the other devices are working fine with Atmos. The 3500 truly excels with HDR10+/DV content. It’s mesmerizing to watch. Very happy with the HDFury and thanks to @Dave Harper for the Hack.

EDIT: Found out after extensive testing with Zidoo z9x, Firestick, Nvidia Shield, Panasonic/Sony Blu-ray players to play DV content through (blu-ray disc, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon Prime) this is the best DV setting for the LTV-3500. 

*DO NOT leave the Max and Min luminance Blank: *This produces a dim/dull DV image in all sources. 

Set Max luminance to: 10,000 nits
Set Min luminance to: 0 nits

Be prepared to be blown away when playing any DV content


----------



## yodathekid

Does this LLDV HDFury hack apply only to Dolby Vision content and act as a passthru not affecting SDR/hdr10/HDR10+ content or does it apply to all content from a connected source? Just trying to clarify since I haven’t used such a device in the chain before.


----------



## Dgtr74

yodathekid said:


> Does this LLDV HDFury hack apply only to Dolby Vision content and act as a passthru not affecting SDR/hdr10/HDR10+ content or does it apply to all content from a connected source? Just trying to clarify since I haven’t used such a device in the chain before.


That is correct. Only applies to DV content.


----------



## yodathekid

Dgtr74 said:


> That is correct. Only applies to DV content.


Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## Dave Harper

yodathekid said:


> Does this LLDV HDFury hack apply only to Dolby Vision content and act as a passthru not affecting SDR/hdr10/HDR10+ content or does it apply to all content from a connected source? Just trying to clarify since I haven’t used such a device in the chain before.





Dgtr74 said:


> That is correct. Only applies to DV content.


Not really true. It can apply to all video file types (SDR, HDR, DV) and it depends on the source you’re using (AppleTV, Zidoo) if it can be forced LLDV for everything and what you set it to for its output.


----------



## Dgtr74

Dave Harper said:


> Not really true. It can apply to all video file types (SDR, HDR, DV) and it depends on the source you’re using (AppleTV, Zidoo) if it can be forced LLDV for everything and what you set it to for its output.


Thanks for the clarification, Dave. What I meant is you can control it. I mainly use my Zidoo. I set it so that it only applies to DV content. It doesn’t touch any of my SDR/HDR/HDR10+ content.


----------



## BLMN

Brajesh said:


> Really hope Avatar 2 gets a 3D Blu-ray release somewhere in the world. *IMAX version would be icing on the cake.*


There is no IMAX version, All the PLF screens got the 1.85 (Flat) ratio. What we should hope for is a 2 disc 1.78 version with the highest bitrate possible for the home market (like Titanic was).


----------



## yodathekid

Dave Harper said:


> Not really true. It can apply to all video file types (SDR, HDR, DV) and it depends on the source you’re using (AppleTV, Zidoo) if it can be forced LLDV for everything and what you set it to for its output.


But you can customize it so that it only applies this LLDV profile to source Dolby Vision content specifically and leave other formats unaffected?


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> No updates yet but looks like people are willing to wait to make sure the 3D function is perfect like before with the enhanced blacks. While waiting for 3D to be fixed, I’ve been testing a bunch of DV content on all my devices connected to the VRROOM and I have to say the 3500/HDFury combo in my setup produced some of the most amazingly bright and punchy DV images I’ve seen with much better detailed shadows vs standard HDR10. This is just on standard preset with standard laser light. Tested on Jeepers Creepers Reborn in DV and compared with regular HDR10. The DV image is incredibly contrasty with beautiful blacks and bright even on my 0.6 gain ALR screen. Daytime viewing with DV on is awesome as well. The only change I did from Dave’s setting is shown in the screen shot below. There’s still one issue I’m experiencing is my Zidoo when connected to the VRROOM will not output Atmos TrueHD 7.1 through my soundbar. Only Dolby Digital 5.1 will work. All the other devices are working fine with Atmos. The 3500 truly excels with HDR10+/DV content. It’s mesmerizing to watch. Very happy with the HDFury and thanks to @Dave Harper for the Hack.
> 
> View attachment 3377873


EDIT: Found out after extensive testing with Zidoo z9x, Firestick, Nvidia Shield, Panasonic/Sony Blu-ray players to play DV content through (blu-ray disc, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon Prime) this is the best DV setting for the LTV-3500. 

*DO NOT leave the Max and Min luminance Blank: *This produces a dim/dull DV image in all sources. 

Set Max luminance to: 10,000 nits
Set Min luminance to: 0 nits

Be prepared to be blown away when playing any DV content


----------



## akopperl

Is there any benefit to purchasing the HDfury VRROOM over the Vertex2 for use with 3500 - primarily to get Dolby Vision and ensuring that Dolby Atmos, etc. passes thru to an AVR or Soundbar properly?


----------



## Dgtr74

akopperl said:


> Is there any benefit to purchasing the HDfury VRROOM over the Vertex2 for use with 3500 - primarily to get Dolby Vision and ensuring that Dolby Atmos, etc. passes thru to an AVR or Soundbar properly?


Nope. No benefit if all you want is to get LLDV. However, it’s more future proof with 8K & 40Gbps support.


----------



## avkevin

Newbie here to HDFury products. Would I be able to see any enhancement on my 2500 model or are the results people are getting with their 3500 due to the increased brightness that model has?


----------



## Dgtr74

avkevin said:


> Newbie here to HDFury products. Would I be able to see any enhancement on my 2500 model or are the results people are getting with their 3500 due to the increased brightness that model has?


I think you should still see better shadow details. Being a videophile guy, I tend to catch subtle detail differences in an image. I compared regular HDR10 to LLDV with some movies and you can see (especially when you hit pause and observe) that the DV image is a little more crisp with better shadow details. I tested movies streaming from Plex on my Nvidia Shield and on the Zidoo. It may vary with the quality of your source and the player you have as well. I’m running the enhanced black beta as well and honestly, that will bring the biggest impact to your picture quality…not DV. I would wait for those updates from AWOL if you can.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

avkevin said:


> Newbie here to HDFury products. Would I be able to see any enhancement on my 2500 model or are the results people are getting with their 3500 due to the increased brightness that model has?


Honestly you could arguably get more mileage out it with a projector that has a lower the lumen output, so the 2500 would be a perfect use case. You're going to see around 100 nits with the 2500 and most HDR is graded for 1000nits with most of the content usually in the 100-400 range. This means (without proper tone mapping) HDR will seem too dark, muted, and bright scenes will look blown out. 

A quick overview of tone mapping and HDR for projectors:

Tone Mapping is only for HDR formats (HDR10, DolbyVision, HLG, etc...). HDR formats allow for brighter and darker images and tone mapping tries to make sure the content will match the projector's brightness range so that the conent will remain dynamic without being too dark/muted or too bright/blown out.

Most projectors including AWOL's, Formovie, etc...have a static tone map that reacts to the the metadata (which tells the projector how bright or dark the content) in the content; the problem with that is it's only using the highest and lowest values over the course of the entire content/Movie. So a frame or a scene that is pitch black will be tone mapped the same as a frame or scene that is bright as the sun. That's why Dynamic Tone Mapping (preferbly frame by frame Vs Scene by Scene) is incredibly important for HDR on a projector. 

The HD Fury devices and its associated hacks use LLDV to provide dynamic tone mapping to all HDR formats. So any projector can benefit from it.


----------



## Brajesh

Add SDR if using Zidoo Z9X, for which you can use its VS10 engine to process any video as 'DV'.


----------



## eleazar

If the LTV-3500 gets a Dolby Vision update (at some point at that is), would it mean I don't really need external hardware anymore (ie. Vertex2, etc)

I'm trying to hold off spending a lot of extra money on external devices to achieve DV 😬 but at the same time, I'm dying to get the experience I keep reading about in this thread. Bottom line, I don't want to spend $500+ if an update from AWOL will mean I don't need the devices anymore.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

eleazar said:


> If the LTV-3500 gets a Dolby Vision update (at some point at that is), would it mean I don't really need external hardware anymore (ie. Vertex2, etc)
> 
> I'm trying to hold off spending a lot of extra money on external devices to achieve DV 😬 but at the same time, I'm dying to get the experience I keep reading about in this thread. Bottom line, I don't want to spend $500+ if an update from AWOL will mean I don't need the devices anymore.


Sure but DV implementation in most cases is less than ideal at best and you'd be stuck with that. See Hisense L9G's bug thread. AWOL is Hisense hardware. Maybe that's why it's taking so long to get certified.

What are you doing about HDR10 and HLG? 

What about your next projector? Will it have DTM, DV, and HDR10+?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Add SDR if using Zidoo Z9X, for which you can use its VS10 engine to process any video as 'DV'.


How do you like this feature so far from the Zidoo? I’ve been testing some SDR content with it using the VS10 engine and depending on the quality of the source material, it looks darn good. Highlights really come through.


----------



## Brajesh

Like it as well. Occasionally, I do get lip synch or ghosting issues. Have you noticed either?


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Like it as well. Occasionally, I do get lip synch or ghosting issues. Have you noticed either?


I have not notice those issues with the SDR movies I’ve tried...but if you can share a title or a clip I can test it.

**btw, thanks for sharing that NASA HDR10+ clip. It looks amazing…bright and punchy with great blacks as well!


----------



## invader zog

Is it important that each device has its own input into a hdfury or can you just put it in between your AVR and the AWOL?


----------



## Brajesh

You can; that's what I'm doing. I have my Shield going to HDFury to AVR to AWOL, and my Zidoo, Vero and XBOX going directly to AVR to AWOL. I may switch it up to send Zidoo and Vero via HDFury as well.


----------



## MMoser

invader zog said:


> Is it important that each device has its own input into a hdfury or can you just put it in between your AVR and the AWOL?


I have it in between, AVR->Vertex2->Awol. 
LLDV works great.


----------



## davidimdpt

so if the HD fury works in this way, AVR->Vertex2->Awol then you technically can connect everything to the avr with one hdmi cable coming out of the avr to the HDfury correct? Then you don't need the higher end HD fury models with multiple inputs. I hope this is true.


----------



## eleazar

Casey_Bryson said:


> Sure but DV implementation in most cases is less than ideal at best and you'd be stuck with that. See Hisense L9G's bug thread. AWOL is Hisense hardware. Maybe that's why it's taking so long to get certified.
> 
> What are you doing about HDR10 and HLG?
> 
> What about your next projector? Will it have DTM, DV, and HDR10+?


Good points and questions. I'm currently using an Apple TV 4K to an older Onkyo 4K receiver (no DV/HDR10 support), so I'm thinking I could probably use an upgrade to get the most out of the 3500. I have a new Denon X3700H that I haven't installed yet. Maybe I should consider returning that receiver and buying a cheaper DV capable AVR to help finance the other required hardware.

I'm currently thinking I'll need the following:

Replacement for AppleTV - possibly Zidoo Z9X. Is there a device that supports DV playback while also supporting Plex? My family is accustomed to the ease of use of Plex, and the great library management. So switching to device with a "basic" file selection interface would be a big step down. My understanding is that the ATV4k supports DV, but only specific limited profiles (ie. not a great result from what I've read)
HDFury Vertex2
DV capable receiver


----------



## brokenconduit

eleazar said:


> Good points and questions. I'm currently using an Apple TV 4K to an older Onkyo 4K receiver (no DV/HDR10 support), so I'm thinking I could probably use an upgrade to get the most out of the 3500. I have a new Denon X3700H that I haven't installed yet. Maybe I should consider returning that receiver and buying a cheaper DV capable AVR to help finance the other required hardware.
> 
> I'm currently thinking I'll need the following:
> 
> Replacement for AppleTV - possibly Zidoo Z9X. Is there a device that supports DV playback while also supporting Plex? My family is accustomed to the ease of use of Plex, and the great library management. So switching to device with a "basic" file selection interface would be a big step down. My understanding is that the ATV4k supports DV, but only specific limited profiles (ie. not a great result from what I've read)
> HDFury Vertex2
> DV capable receiver


Same question here. My family also uses Plex. So I would need a Zidoo Z9X AND a Vroom or Vertex?


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> Same question here. My family also uses Plex. So I would need a Zidoo Z9X AND a Vroom or Vertex?


I mainly use the Zidoo for 3D playback of my ISOs but lately have been using it to apply LLDV to every SDR and HDR content that I have on the hard drive connected to it. It’s been producing amazing pictures for me connected to the HD Fury and going directly to the AWOL and my new sound bar sound system. All have eARC support. Since the Zidoo cannot act as a server for Plex, I have another hard drive with identical content on my media PC that acts as the Plex server so that everyone can watch what they want in their rooms. Each room has an Nvidia Shield to stream Plex. The Shield is great in that it can passthrough ATMOS and DTS-X. The only downer to the Shield for me is no YouTube HDR and no HDR10+ support. So, I ordered the Fire TV Cube 3rd gen and that with the latest update also has ATMOS/DTS-X pass through AND supports YouTube HDR and HDR10+ and should make it the best device for streaming Plex as well. It’s arriving tomorrow. If I like it, it will replace the Shield and FireTV stick in my setup.

Also, wanted to add the Zidoo has a nice movie category layout as well. It’s the best player to play anything you throw at it. It doesn’t do streaming so that’s where the other devices come in.


----------



## Brajesh

Just did a hard reset on my Zidoo, set it up fresh, and now getting issue-free VS10 rendering for SDR & HDR. VS10 is quite excellent!


----------



## ryu4000

Dgtr74 said:


> I mainly use the Zidoo for 3D playback of my ISOs but lately have been using it to apply LLDV to every SDR and HDR content that I have on the hard drive connected to it. It’s been producing amazing pictures for me connected to the HD Fury and going directly to the AWOL and my new sound bar sound system. All have eARC support. Since the Zidoo cannot act as a server for Plex, I have another hard drive with identical content on my media PC that acts as the Plex server so that everyone can watch what they want in their rooms. Each room has an Nvidia Shield to stream Plex. The Shield is great in that it can passthrough ATMOS and DTS-X. The only downer to the Shield for me is no YouTube HDR and no HDR10+ support. So, I ordered the Fire TV Cube 3rd gen and that with the latest update also has ATMOS/DTS-X pass through AND supports YouTube HDR and HDR10+ and should make it the best device for streaming Plex as well. It’s arriving tomorrow. If I like it, it will replace the Shield and FireTV stick in my setup.
> 
> Also, wanted to add the Zidoo has a nice movie category layout as well. It’s the best player to play anything you throw at it. It doesn’t do streaming so that’s where the other devices come in.


I would like to know about fire stick keep us updated heard online dts-x is still broken and it's just regular dts. I want to replace my shield tv since having some issues with it would like hdr10+ atmos dts-x etc... support.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dgtr74 said:


> I mainly use the Zidoo for 3D playback of my ISOs but lately have been using it to apply LLDV to every SDR and HDR content that I have on the hard drive connected to it. It’s been producing amazing pictures for me connected to the HD Fury and going directly to the AWOL and my new sound bar sound system. All have eARC support. Since the Zidoo cannot act as a server for Plex, I have another hard drive with identical content on my media PC that acts as the Plex server so that everyone can watch what they want in their rooms. Each room has an Nvidia Shield to stream Plex. The Shield is great in that it can passthrough ATMOS and DTS-X. The only downer to the Shield for me is no YouTube HDR and no HDR10+ support. So, I ordered the Fire TV Cube 3rd gen and that with the latest update also has ATMOS/DTS-X pass through AND supports YouTube HDR and HDR10+ and should make it the best device for streaming Plex as well. It’s arriving tomorrow. If I like it, it will replace the Shield and FireTV stick in my setup.
> 
> Also, wanted to add the Zidoo has a nice movie category layout as well. It’s the best player to play anything you throw at it. It doesn’t do streaming so that’s where the other devices come in.





Brajesh said:


> Just did a hard reset on my Zidoo, set it up fresh, and now getting issue-free VS10 rendering for SDR & HDR. VS10 is quite excellent!


So it sounds like...between the new Apple TV4K and Nvidia Shield for Plex Nvidia shield is better? Just get Zidoo and either Vertex2 or Vrooom as well?


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> So it sounds like...between the new Apple TV4K and Nvidia Shield for Plex Nvidia shield is better? Just get Zidoo and either Vertex2 or Vrooom as well?


I don’t believe Apple TV has audio pass through, so that’s a no go for me. So, there’s only 2 contenders now for streaming devices, Shield Pro or Fire TV Cube 3. I will be testing the Cube and see how reliable it is. Shield has worked flawlessly for me with Plex..passing TrueHD audio and DTS-X. So it’s a very good option, but not perfect since there’s a couple things it’s lacking like I mentioned earlier and the hardware is getting pretty dated. The Cube checks off all the boxes but let’s see after testing. 
Zidoo is amazing to own if you have back up disc files and movies on a hard drive. It plays 3D files flawlessly. It’s VS10 Dolby Vision engine is really good and makes any SDR/HDR content even better. For HDFury, you can get either Vertex2 or VRROOM, no difference in picture quality.


----------



## Dgtr74

It’s been a while I haven’t loaded a 3D title, ever since I got the enhance black beta. Here’s some through the lens shots of Aquaman 3D with my custom brightness settings. Even with some lights on, the 3D picture comes through nicely with nice deep colors and contrast. Really miss 3D and hope AWOL can get the new firmware update out soon to fix the sync issue. Here, the Zidoo is going through HDFury then to AWOL.


----------



## yodathekid

Dgtr74 said:


> It’s been a while I haven’t loaded a 3D title, ever since I got the enhance black beta. Here’s some through the lens shots of Aquaman 3D with my custom brightness settings. Even with some lights on, the 3D picture comes through nicely with nice deep colors and contrast. Really miss 3D and hope AWOL can get the new firmware update out soon to fix the sync issue. Here, the Zidoo is going through HDFury then to AWOL.
> 
> View attachment 3379640
> 
> View attachment 3379644
> 
> View attachment 3379642
> 
> View attachment 3379641
> 
> View attachment 3379643


That looks stunning. What’re your screen specs?


----------



## MarcusD777

Brajesh said:


> Just did a hard reset on my Zidoo, set it up fresh, and now getting issue-free VS10 rendering for SDR & HDR. VS10 is quite excellent!


Is it possible to run a streaming service from an Apple TV, Roku or Shield into the Zidoo to utilize the VS10 engine processing?


----------



## ACE844

MarcusD777 said:


> Is it possible to run a streaming service from an Apple TV, Roku or Shield into the Zidoo to utilize the VS10 engine processing?


Have you tried sideloading or adding the AppleTV app for android?


----------



## Brajesh

Problem is any premium app on Zidoo will only give you 480p. Two possible options:

Try the HDMI input to feed in Apple TV, Shield or Roku, or
Try a casting app, either Chromecast or AirPlay
With both however, I don't know if Z9X supports 4K, or if it caps out at 1080p.


----------



## Dgtr74

ACE844 said:


> Have you tried sideloading or adding the AppleTV app for android?


I have the custom version of the latest firmware with Google Playstore and can download streaming apps on the Zidoo. You can also push apks to the Zidoo using the Android Zidoo Controller app. Can’t do that on IOS. However, VS10 engine will not apply to the video streams. I installed SmartTubeNext as well and no HDR. The only app I have installed on the Zidoo is ZDMC 19.4 (Kodi). It works great to get HDR/DV and TrueHD audio from streams that has it.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dgtr74 said:


> I don’t believe Apple TV has audio pass through, so that’s a no go for me. So, there’s only 2 contenders now for streaming devices, Shield Pro or Fire TV Cube 3. I will be testing the Cube and see how reliable it is. Shield has worked flawlessly for me with Plex..passing TrueHD audio and DTS-X. So it’s a very good option, but not perfect since there’s a couple things it’s lacking like I mentioned earlier and the hardware is getting pretty dated. The Cube checks off all the boxes but let’s see after testing.
> Zidoo is amazing to own if you have back up disc files and movies on a hard drive. It plays 3D files flawlessly. It’s VS10 Dolby Vision engine is really good and makes any SDR/HDR content even better. For HDFury, you can get either Vertex2 or VRROOM, no difference in picture quality.


Keep us update on your final thoughts for the Cube. Getting close to buying time for me and want your 2 cents. 

And for Vertex2/Vroom I can go Receiver (misc stuff plugged in it like PS5, Xbox Series X) > Vertex/Vroom > AWOL? Or do I have to individually run them all through Vertex no receiver? 



Dgtr74 said:


> It’s been a while I haven’t loaded a 3D title, ever since I got the enhance black beta. Here’s some through the lens shots of Aquaman 3D with my custom brightness settings. Even with some lights on, the 3D picture comes through nicely with nice deep colors and contrast. Really miss 3D and hope AWOL can get the new firmware update out soon to fix the sync issue. Here, the Zidoo is going through HDFury then to AWOL.
> 
> View attachment 3379640
> 
> View attachment 3379644
> 
> View attachment 3379642
> 
> View attachment 3379641
> 
> View attachment 3379643


Looks great! So right now with the beta you have, if you want to run 3D all you have to do is turn enhanced black off?


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> Keep us update on your final thoughts for the Cube. Getting close to buying time for me and want your 2 cents.
> 
> And for Vertex2/Vroom I can go Receiver (misc stuff plugged in it like PS5, Xbox Series X) > Vertex/Vroom > AWOL? Or do I have to individually run them all through Vertex no receiver?
> 
> 
> Looks great! So right now with the beta you have, if you want to run 3D all you have to do is turn enhanced black off?


Yep, the Cube will arrive sometime today. As for the Vertex2 setup, it should work in the flow you mentioned. For 3D, it still works with the enhanced black beta but it will lose sync every every now and then and more frequently depending on the movie. Before the update, 3D was rock solid throughout the entire movie.


----------



## invader zog

Dgtr74 said:


> I have the custom version of the latest firmware with Google Playstore and can download streaming apps on the Zidoo. You can also push apks to the Zidoo using the Android Zidoo Controller app. Can’t do that on IOS. However, VS10 engine will not apply to the video streams. I installed SmartTubeNext as well and no HDR. The only app I have installed on the Zidoo is ZDMC 19.4 (Kodi). It works great to get HDR/DV and TrueHD audio from streams that has it.


I could be wrong, but it is likely the case that DRM content on the zidoo (ie commercial streaming sites) is 1080p or720p. I


----------



## brokenconduit

Any idea how to see on the AWOL-3500 how many hours it/the laser has been used for?


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> For 3D, it still works with the enhanced black beta but it will lose sync every every now and then and more frequently depending on the movie. Before the update, 3D was rock solid throughout the entire movie.


Yes there a way to downgrade the firmware to the previous version when 3D was flawless?


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, the Cube will arrive sometime today. As for the Vertex2 setup, it should work in the flow you mentioned. For 3D, it still works with the enhanced black beta but it will lose sync every every now and then and more frequently depending on the movie. Before the update, 3D was rock solid throughout the entire movie.


I have now retired by Nvidia Shield Pro and Firestick TV Max today. I did extensive testing on the Fire TV Cube 3 and I can say we have a new champion when it comes to streaming and doing everything I need it to do from an audio/video enthusiast‘s perspective. It’s definitely not perfect when it comes things like not having gigabit lan and cluttered UI. I just slapped on an Ethernet to Lan connector and problem solved for me (Getting 400-500Mbps), more than enough for what I need. It has Wifi 6E too so may not need the LAN. Can‘t beat an all in one device that is fast, runs Plex smoothly, ability to install custom apps, supports DV/HDR10+/ATMOS/DTS-X/ audio passthrough, and it’s working flawlessly with my sound system. I would give it a test run and see if it fits your needs as well.


----------



## Dgtr74

Nuno Campos said:


> Yes there a way to downgrade the firmware to the previous version when 3D was flawless?


I‘m not sure about this. Would need to ask AWOL support. I’m still able to watch 3D and can deal with the sync issue though until it’s fixed.


----------



## luisenriquereyes

Dgtr74 said:


> I have now retired by Nvidia Shield Pro and Firestick TV Max today. I did extensive testing on the Fire TV Cube 3 and I can say we have a new champion when it comes to streaming and doing everything I need it to do from an audio/video enthusiast‘s perspective. It’s definitely not perfect when it comes things like not having gigabit lan and cluttered UI. I just slapped on an Ethernet to Lan connector and problem solved for me (Getting 400-500Mbps), more than enough for what I need. It has Wifi 6E too so may not need the LAN. Can‘t beat an all in one device that is fast, runs Plex smoothly, ability to install custom apps, supports DV/HDR10+/ATMOS/DTS-X/ audio passthrough, and it’s working flawlessly with my sound system. I would give it a test run and see if it fits your needs as well.


Do you know if the Fire TV Cube 3 supports YouTube HDR at 60 FPS?


----------



## Brajesh

[email protected], yes it does.

@Dgtr74, are you sure DTS:X is passing through? Had read several reports all DTS was broken and passing as PCM. Only TrueHD/ATMOS was working. Maybe they fixed this, but would appreciate your verifying before I buy one . And, which version of Kodi are you using? The official 19.5 or Maven's build?

Also, which GigE Ethernet adapter are you using? With a couple I've tried, best I can get is 340-370Mbps.

Was about to buy an AmLogic S905X4 box and install CoreELEC as these boxes support AV1 and VP9 [email protected], but if all HD audio is passing through properly on Fire Cube 3, that's the better choice. And you can sideload a simple launcher and map a remote button to switch to it to get away from Amazon's cluttered, ad-ridden interface.

Talking about Amazon, did enjoy the latest season of Jack Ryan, which is really good BTW, with HDR10+ on AWOL .


----------



## gmoore23

Dgtr74 said:


> I have now retired by Nvidia Shield Pro and Firestick TV Max today. I did extensive testing on the Fire TV Cube 3 and I can say we have a new champion when it comes to streaming and doing everything I need it to do from an audio/video enthusiast‘s perspective. It’s definitely not perfect when it comes things like not having gigabit lan and cluttered UI. I just slapped on an Ethernet to Lan connector and problem solved for me (Getting 400-500Mbps), more than enough for what I need. It has Wifi 6E too so may not need the LAN. Can‘t beat an all in one device that is fast, runs Plex smoothly, ability to install custom apps, supports DV/HDR10+/ATMOS/DTS-X/ audio passthrough, and it’s working flawlessly with my sound system. I would give it a test run and see if it fits your needs as well.


Hi, Is it passing TrueHD and DTS-HD also.


----------



## Dgtr74

yodathekid said:


> That looks stunning. What’re your screen specs?


Thanks. It’s the motorized Vividstorm 0.6 gain screen. I will be testing the 3500 on a motorized 150” ALR 0.8 gain screen as soon as I get it in a couple weeks.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> [email protected], yes it does.
> 
> @Dgtr74, are you sure DTS:X is passing through? Had read several reports all DTS was broken and passing as PCM. Only TrueHD/ATMOS was working. Maybe they fixed this, but would appreciate your verifying before I buy one . And, which version of Kodi are you using? The official 19.5 or Maven's build?
> 
> Also, which GigE Ethernet adapter are you using? With a couple I've tried, best I can get is 340-370Mbps.
> 
> Was about to buy an AmLogic S905X4 box and install CoreELEC as these boxes support AV1 and VP9 [email protected], but if all HD audio is passing through properly on Fire Cube 3, that's the better choice. And you can sideload a simple launcher and map a remote button to switch to it to get away from Amazon's cluttered, ad-ridden interface.
> 
> Talking about Amazon, did enjoy the latest season of Jack Ryan, which is really good BTW, with HDR10+ on AWOL .


@Brajesh Now you have me questioning myself…it was really late though so I could’ve been seeing things😂. The only DTS content I had on the Zidoo to test was the UHD DTS demo disc vol 22. I swore it sounded really good and displayed DTS on the Zidoo info screen. However, I will test again later today. Have guests over soon. Using a Cable Matters Ethernet adapter to get those speeds. I’ll also try to test a UHD title that has DTS-X to make sure.


----------



## Brajesh

Thanks... Lon.tv for one had reported DTS/MA/X wasn't working, but this was about a week ago:





I have several DTS-based samples posted here if you need them.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Thanks... Lon.tv for one had reported DTS/MA/X wasn't working, but this was about a week ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have several DTS-based samples posted here if you need them.


Thanks. There are several broken DTS links but was able to download a couple DTS-X samples to test. Also, using official Kodi 19.5.


----------



## Dgtr74

gmoore23 said:


> Hi, Is it passing TrueHD and DTS-HD also.


Yes, for me it’s passing both. But testing some more DTS-X contents to be sure there’s no issues.


----------



## eleazar

What receivers (AVRs) are you guys using with the LTV-3500?

I just have a basic 5.1 system, so I don't need a lot of power. It's also not ATMOS compatible, so that isn't a big issue either.

I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR676, which doesn't support Dolby Vision or HDR10+, so I'm considering upgrading, but with my basic sound system, I'm thinking I could get away with a minimal AVR upgrade (basically any AVR that supports DV/HDR10+).


----------



## Brajesh

Dgtr74 said:


> Yes, for me it’s passing both. But testing some more DTS-X contents to be sure there’s no issues.


Hmm, I need to fix those in the Kodi wiki. Thanks, glad to hear both flavors of HD audio formats are passing.


eleazar said:


> What receivers (AVRs) are you guys using with the LTV-3500?


An Onkyo TX-RZ50.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Hmm, I need to fix those in the Kodi wiki. Thanks, glad to hear both flavors of HD audio formats are passing.
> 
> An Onkyo TX-RZ50.


I only had a quick moment to test Despicable Me, which is a DTS-X title. It’s working on my Cube and sounds amazing.


----------



## Dgtr74

@Brajesh Just tested Plex playing the DTS-X sample I downloaded from your link. It’s playing and sounds great on my Cube as well.


----------



## invader zog

eleazar said:


> What receivers (AVRs) are you guys using with the LTV-3500?
> 
> I just have a basic 5.1 system, so I don't need a lot of power. It's also not ATMOS compatible, so that isn't a big issue either.
> 
> I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR676, which doesn't support Dolby Vision or HDR10+, so I'm considering upgrading, but with my basic sound system, I'm thinking I could get away with a minimal AVR upgrade (basically any AVR that supports DV/HDR10+).


I have a nr686. They added Dolby vision support in a firmware update and you have to do a weird trick of holding multiple buttons down on the receiver to activate. I don’t know if this applies to your model as well….


----------



## Brajesh

@Dgtr74, looks promising... I assume your AVR reported DTS-MA/X vs. PCM?


----------



## Marc D Carra

I've decided I prefer my Elitescreens white Aeon screen in my completely darkened theater when I'm using my Awolvision LTV-3500. It's just much brighter. So I listed my like-new Vividstorm 120" ALR screen in the classifieds if anyone is near the Ottawa or Montreal Canada area and wants a great deal.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dgtr74 said:


> Thanks. It’s the motorized Vividstorm 0.6 gain screen. I will be testing the 3500 on a motorized 150” ALR 0.8 gain screen as soon as I get it in a couple weeks.


Curious to see this on a .8 gain screen especially the impact on contrast because I’m thinking of going bigger as well.


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> @Dgtr74, looks promising... I assume your AVR reported DTS-MA/X vs. PCM?


I replaced my Nakamichi 9.2.4 with the Samsung Q990B 11.1.4 soundbar system. The Q990B doesn’t provide me the audio stream that I’m playing on it’s display. However, the DTS sound stage and 3D overhead affect sounds exactly like it does on my Zidoo, streaming it from Plex on the Cube. I don’t believe it’s just passing PCM audio.


----------



## Dgtr74

arsenalfc89 said:


> Curious to see this on a .8 gain screen especially the impact on contrast because I’m thinking of going bigger as well.


 @arsenalfc89 I think you will like it. Here’s a screen grab of a video of them testing my screen with a Hisense 3000 lumen projector with plenty of ambient light. The AWOL 3500 picture performance should be even better. 😀


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> @Dgtr74, looks promising... I assume your AVR reported DTS-MA/X vs. PCM?


Unfortunately, I hooked up my old sound system that allows me to see what stream is playing and can confirm your findings. L-PCM is displayed when I select a DTS soundtrack on Plex using the cube. ATMOS displayed correctly. Odd thing is in Kodi, if I select either D.ATMOS or DTS-X/HD it shows as L-PCM 7.1. When I select DD+, it displays the word Dolby Digital properly. I’m sure this has already been reported and hope it’ll be fixed with the next update. I use the Zidoo to play Kodi so it hasn’t impacted me and don‘t use Plex either since everything is played through the Zidoo now. Youtube HDR and streaming services I use the cube, which will output DV and HDR10+ and ATMOS appropriately for me.


----------



## adrift

eleazar said:


> What receivers (AVRs) are you guys using with the LTV-3500?
> 
> I just have a basic 5.1 system, so I don't need a lot of power. It's also not ATMOS compatible, so that isn't a big issue either.
> 
> I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR676, which doesn't support Dolby Vision or HDR10+, so I'm considering upgrading, but with my basic sound system, I'm thinking I could get away with a minimal AVR upgrade (basically any AVR that supports DV/HDR10+).


It does support Dolby Vision, but you're correct it doesn't support HDR10+. I have the same receiver and I'm planning on eventually upgrading to a TX-NR7100, which is a bit pricey, but I kinda want the Dirac Live feature.


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dgtr74 said:


> Unfortunately, I hooked up my old sound system that allows me to see what stream is playing and can confirm your findings. L-PCM is displayed when I select a DTS soundtrack on Plex using the cube. ATMOS displayed correctly. Odd thing is in Kodi, if I select either D.ATMOS or DTS-X/HD it shows as L-PCM 7.1. When I select DD+, it displays the word Dolby Digital properly. I’m sure this has already been reported and hope it’ll be fixed with the next update. I use the Zidoo to play Kodi so it hasn’t impacted me and don‘t use Plex either since everything is played through the Zidoo now. Youtube HDR and streaming services I use the cube, which will output DV and HDR10+ and ATMOS appropriately for me.


I think that is an actual limitation of the chipset used in the Amazon Cube. If I understood correctly dts support needs to be on the hardware level, so the cube might never be able to support it. I looked into getting one for the hdmi input and then having a blu-ray player connected so I could make a cool setup with a couple of Studios and a subwoofer, but the lack of dts put me off.


----------



## Brajesh

Got FTV Cube 3 from Best Buy... still not impressed w/Fire devices for serious home theater use. Even wired, I was getting stuttering w/high bitrate files. Shield TV Pro still reigns supreme as an Android TV box. Hope they come out w/a new box however that is more powerful and adds HDR10+, with h/w AV1 and VP9 decoding.


----------



## m0j0

Brajesh said:


> Got FTV Cube 3 from Best Buy... still not impressed w/Fire devices for serious home theater use. Even wired, I was getting stuttering w/high bitrate files. Shield TV Pro still reigns supreme as an Android TV box. Hope they come out w/a new box however that is more powerful and adds HDR10+, with h/w AV1 and VP9 decoding.


I love my FireTV Cube 3, but use it only for streaming (ended up giving away my Shield Pro). For 4k MKV rips, I use the Zidoo Z9X and it works great as well.


----------



## paligap

I'm not trying to be critical, but the last few pages of this thread are about devices other than the 3500. I guess these things are bigger concerns for owners of the 3500 than the projector itself, but it's not too helpful for people trying to decide which UST to buy.


----------



## Marc D Carra

paligap said:


> I'm not trying to be critical, but the last few pages of this thread are about devices other than the 3500. I guess these things are bigger concerns for owners of the 3500 than the projector itself, but it's not too helpful for people trying to decide which UST to buy.


I think we are all just trying to keep this thread active. This is one of the only USTs out there with very little to complain about so usually happy owners are quiet owners😅 If any potential buyers have specific questions that haven't already been covered, I'm sure many of us will be glad to answer any questions you have.


----------



## paligap

Marc D Carra said:


> I think we are all just trying to keep this thread active. This is one of the only USTs out there with very little to complain about so usually happy owners are quiet owners😅 If any potential buyers have specific questions that haven't already been covered, I'm sure many of us will be glad to answer any questions you have.


Point taken. Like the TV I have in my setup now, I plan on using a UST as a display, so a lot of the discussion here about these other devices doesn't seem to apply to me.

How good is the Dolby Vision and 3D performance on the 3500 right now, compared to that of a TV? My current display, a Sony 940D, doesn't have DV, but it does HDR and 3D well enough for my taste. Could I possibly use the 3D glasses (active) I have now with a 3500?

I'm not a gamer, but how does the 3500 handle motion, not so much in sports, but in movies? I hate SOE, and I don't use any motion settings currently.


----------



## Marc D Carra

paligap said:


> Point taken. Like the TV I have in my setup now, I plan on using a UST as a display, so a lot of the discussion here about these other devices doesn't seem to apply to me.
> 
> How good is the Dolby Vision and 3D performance on the 3500 right now, compared to that of a TV? My current display, a Sony 940D, doesn't have DV, but it does HDR and 3D well enough for my taste. Could I possibly use the 3D glasses (active) I have now with a 3500?
> 
> I'm not a gamer, but how does the 3500 handle motion, not so much in sports, but in movies? I hate SOE, and I don't use any motion settings currently.


I've owned just about every brand of 3D TV and projector out there, including the pinnacle of 3D panels , the famous LG OLED 65E6P 4K passive 3D panel which provided the best, brightest 3D image of any panel ever released. I can honestly say the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500 is leaps and bounds better. Brighter, more colorful, more depth and popout, zero crosstalk. It's the best at home 3D experience I've ever had. I've also owned numerous DLP projectors, Epson 5050,5040, JVC 4K NX5, NX7 and a Sony 75Z9D 4K 3D flat panel. Nothing touches the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500. You're gonna need DLP-link active glasses though, preferably the Xpand 105 model. The ones you used with your flat panel won't work.
Motion handling is also one of the best I've owned, without using any of the motion enhancement features. It's VERY good for movies. I don't watch sports.
HDR is very good mostly due to the high brightness of the projector. Add an HDfury Vertex2 and you are in for some amazing Dolby Vision viewing. Although built-in Dolbyvision is supposed to be coming soon as an already promised firmware upgrade. Here's a closeup from a 4K HDR stream I watched the other night on my 3500


----------



## Nuno Campos

Marc D Carra said:


> I've owned just about every brand of 3D TV and projector out there, including the pinnacle of 3D panels , the famous LG OLED 65E6P 4K passive 3D panel which provided the best, brightest 3D image of any panel ever released. I can honestly say the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500 is leaps and bounds better. Brighter, more colorful, more depth and popout, zero crosstalk. It's the best at home 3D experience I've ever had. I've also owned numerous DLP projectors, Epson 5050,5040, JVC 4K NX5, NX7 and a Sony 75Z9D FALD flat panel. Nothing touches the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500. You're gonna need DLP-link active glasses though, preferably the Xpand 105 model. The ones you used with your flat panel won't work.
> Motion handling is also one of the best I've owned, without using any of the motion enhancement features. It's VERY good for movies. I don't watch sports.
> HDR is very good mostly due to the high brightness of the projector. Add an HDfury Vertex2 and you are in for some amazing Dolby Vision viewing. Although built-in Dolbyvision is supposed to be coming soon as an already promised firmware upgrade. Here's a closeup from a 4K HDR stream I watched the other night on my 3500
> View attachment 3381037


Is that Billy Eichner looking at the boxoffice numbers for Bros?


----------



## Marc D Carra

Nuno Campos said:


> Is that Billy Eichner looking at the boxoffice numbers for Bros?


That's him. I finally got around to watching it the other night. What a great movie. I don't remember the last time I laughed so much during a comedy, not to mention a romantic comedy. I don't know why it did so poorly. It was very entertaining.


----------



## MMoser

Marc D Carra said:


> paligap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Point taken. Like the TV I have in my setup now, I plan on using a UST as a display, so a lot of the discussion here about these other devices doesn't seem to apply to me.
> 
> How good is the Dolby Vision and 3D performance on the 3500 right now, compared to that of a TV? My current display, a Sony 940D, doesn't have DV, but it does HDR and 3D well enough for my taste. Could I possibly use the 3D glasses (active) I have now with a 3500?
> 
> I'm not a gamer, but how does the 3500 handle motion, not so much in sports, but in movies? I hate SOE, and I don't use any motion settings currently.
> 
> 
> 
> I've owned just about every brand of 3D TV and projector out there, including the pinnacle of 3D panels , the famous LG OLED 65E6P 4K passive 3D panel which provided the best, brightest 3D image of any panel ever released. I can honestly say the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500 is leaps and bounds better. Brighter, more colorful, more depth and popout, zero crosstalk. It's the best at home 3D experience I've ever had. I've also owned numerous DLP projectors, Epson 5050,5040, JVC 4K NX5, NX7 and a Sony 75Z9D 4K 3D flat panel. Nothing touches the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500. You're gonna need DLP-link active glasses though, preferably the Xpand 105 model. The ones you used with your flat panel won't work.
> Motion handling is also one of the best I've owned, without using any of the motion enhancement features. It's VERY good for movies. I don't watch sports.
> HDR is very good mostly due to the high brightness of the projector. Add an HDfury Vertex2 and you are in for some amazing Dolby Vision viewing. Although built-in Dolbyvision is supposed to be coming soon as an already promised firmware upgrade. Here's a closeup from a 4K HDR stream I watched the other night on my 3500
> View attachment 3381037
Click to expand...

I definitely agree. I've been chasing 3D at home for a decade, and finally feel satisfied by bringing the AWOL 3500 to our theater! Add a HDFury and equip one of the most versitle EDID options to your chain to get LLDV.

Also, while not traditional, after experiencing the 3500 I went from a 150' 1.1 matte white screen, to a 150' white 1.4 gain screen and am stunned everyday when watching this setup. I am in a blacked out light controlled room so the blacks are still excellent, but now the whites are also superb! Better colors, detail etc.

My wife who doesn't always notice marginal gains, loved the upgrade from the Epson to the AWOL right away, and also prefers the 1.4 screen for 3D.

This setup is just amazing, it's finally like having a 150' TV!


----------



## Nuno Campos

Marc D Carra said:


> That's him. I finally got around to watching it the other night. What a great movie. I don't remember the last time I laughed so much during a comedy, not to mention a romantic comedy. I don't know why it did so poorly. It was very entertaining.


When it hits one of the streaming services I have I’m watching it. I’m hoping it is one of those completely outrageous comedies that you laugh all the way.
I think it failed for some misguided marketing strategies.


paligap said:


> I'm not trying to be critical, but the last few pages of this thread are about devices other than the 3500. I guess these things are bigger concerns for owners of the 3500 than the projector itself, but it's not too helpful for people trying to decide which UST to buy.


This would be the right forum for anything related to this AWOL, including any devices that might be connected to this projector. I think that it might prove helpful in sorting out issues or even in helping members get the best device that will give this projector the best milage.


MMoser said:


> I have to agree. I've been chasing the 3D at home for a decade, and finally feel satisfied when using the AWOL 3500! Add a HDFury and equip the most versitle DV option to your chain.
> 
> Also, while not traditional, after experiencing the 3500 I went from a 150' 1.1 matte white screen, to a 150' white 1.4 gain screen and am stunned everyday when watching this setup. I am in a blacked out light controlled room so the blacks are still excellent, but now the whites are also superb! Better colors etc.
> 
> My wife who doesn't always notice marginal gains, loved the upgrade from the Epson to the AWOL right away, and also prefers the 1.4 screen for 3D.


What brand is this 1.4 screen? And as always, some pics of your setup would do wonders for us. Thank you


----------



## Dgtr74

Brajesh said:


> Got FTV Cube 3 from Best Buy... still not impressed w/Fire devices for serious home theater use. Even wired, I was getting stuttering w/high bitrate files. Shield TV Pro still reigns supreme as an Android TV box. Hope they come out w/a new box however that is more powerful and adds HDR10+, with h/w AV1 and VP9 decoding.


Agree, Nvidia really needs to update the Shield. Streaming for me has been better on the FTV Cube. Can’t beat this for streaming YouTube HDR. I just got this USB to ethernet adapter for my FTV and my speeds are even faster than my Shield Pro. UGREEN USB 3.0 Hub Ethernet Adapter 10 100 1000 Gigabit Network Converter with 3 USB 3.0 Ports Hub Compatible with Laptop PC Nintendo Switch MacBook Surface XPS Windows Linux macOS, and More https://a.co/d/b23fhEz









Sharing this comparison using the Zidoo’s VS10 engine. Did some tweaking in my VRROOM and also applied VS10 engine to all my SDR/HDR/DV content. Here’s a comparison of a still shot of the HDR10+ clip you shared vs the VS10 engine. Much better tone mapping with VS10. 









I know you’re probably seeing this as well. Blacks and perceived contrast improved significantly using tweaked VRROOM settings and enhance black beta. This image was captured with my Christmas lights on, which is only a few feet away from my Vividstorm.


----------



## MMoser

Nuno Campos said:


> Marc D Carra said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's him. I finally got around to watching it the other night. What a great movie. I don't remember the last time I laughed so much during a comedy, not to mention a romantic comedy. I don't know why it did so poorly. It was very entertaining.
> 
> 
> 
> When it hits one of the streaming services I have I’m watching it. I’m hoping it is one of those completely outrageous comedies that you laugh all the way.
> I think it failed for some misguided marketing strategies.
> 
> 
> paligap said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be critical, but the last few pages of this thread are about devices other than the 3500. I guess these things are bigger concerns for owners of the 3500 than the projector itself, but it's not too helpful for people trying to decide which UST to buy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This would be the right forum for anything related to this AWOL, including any devices that might be connected to this projector. I think that it might prove helpful in sorting out issues or even in helping members get the best device that will give this projector the best milage.
> 
> 
> MMoser said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree. I've been chasing the 3D at home for a decade, and finally feel satisfied when using the AWOL 3500! Add a HDFury and equip the most versitle DV option to your chain.
> 
> Also, while not traditional, after experiencing the 3500 I went from a 150' 1.1 matte white screen, to a 150' white 1.4 gain screen and am stunned everyday when watching this setup. I am in a blacked out light controlled room so the blacks are still excellent, but now the whites are also superb! Better colors etc.
> 
> My wife who doesn't always notice marginal gains, loved the upgrade from the Epson to the AWOL right away, and also prefers the 1.4 screen for 3D.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What brand is this 1.4 screen? And as always, some pics of your setup would do wonders for us. Thank you
Click to expand...

Silver Ticket. I suggest trying a sample pack. 








Material Samples Kit for STR, STC, STT & S7 Series Fixed Screens


The White, Grey, 2GS, 2GP, WAB & WVS material all work with Ultra Short Throw (UST), Short Throw, Standard Throw and Long Throw Projection - All Projection Types. The 4W, Silver, HC, AGS & AGP materials are made for Standard Throw & Long Throw Projection Only. All Samples ship by USPS first...




www.silverticketproducts.com


----------



## Brajesh

Nice @Dgtr74, I'll try VS10 for HDR10+ as well and check out on AWOL. Streamed 'Glass Onion' last night, and PQ was sublime. Colors, sharpness... could easily make out tiny pores in characters' faces, even chins. This projector in combi with HDFury is a match made in HT heaven.

Hope the 3D fix is close.


----------



## yodathekid

Marc D Carra said:


> I've owned just about every brand of 3D TV and projector out there, including the pinnacle of 3D panels , the famous LG OLED 65E6P 4K passive 3D panel which provided the best, brightest 3D image of any panel ever released. I can honestly say the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500 is leaps and bounds better. Brighter, more colorful, more depth and popout, zero crosstalk. It's the best at home 3D experience I've ever had. I've also owned numerous DLP projectors, Epson 5050,5040, JVC 4K NX5, NX7 and a Sony 75Z9D 4K 3D flat panel. Nothing touches the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500. You're gonna need DLP-link active glasses though, preferably the Xpand 105 model. The ones you used with your flat panel won't work.
> Motion handling is also one of the best I've owned, without using any of the motion enhancement features. It's VERY good for movies. I don't watch sports.
> HDR is very good mostly due to the high brightness of the projector. Add an HDfury Vertex2 and you are in for some amazing Dolby Vision viewing. Although built-in Dolbyvision is supposed to be coming soon as an already promised firmware upgrade. Here's a closeup from a 4K HDR stream I watched the other night on my 3500
> View attachment 3381037


This is super helpful. I’ve been holding on to my 65C6 OLED with an iron grip and a projector hasn’t really made me question that until I started seeing pics and hearing about the AWOL. How tolerable compared to the oled is the black floor with something like Dune or The Batman where deep black and slightly raised are constantly the setting?


----------



## Dgtr74

yodathekid said:


> This is super helpful. I’ve been holding on to my 65C6 OLED with an iron grip and a projector hasn’t really made me question that until I started seeing pics and hearing about the AWOL. How tolerable compared to the oled is the black floor with something like Dune or The Batman where deep black and slightly raised are constantly the setting?


The blacks to me are excellent when paired with the right screen (with the enhanced beta and even more so when combined with an HDFury with proper settings). With the firepower of the AWOL 3500, The brightness of the highlights truly makes the picture pop, especially with HDR content combined with the lower black floor. I’ve tested Dune and The Batman and it looks fantastic and very cinematic due to the scale of the image. If there’s a scene that you want me to test, let me know the time stamp. Can test it tonight.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dgtr74 said:


> The blacks to me are excellent when paired with the right screen (with the enhanced beta and even more so when combined with an HDFury with proper settings). With the firepower of the AWOL 3500, The brightness of the highlights truly makes the picture pop, especially with HDR content combined with the lower black floor. I’ve tested Dune and The Batman and it looks fantastic and very cinematic due to the scale of the image. If there’s a scene that you want me to test, let me know the time stamp. Can test it tonight.


Are you on the enhanced black Beta as well currently using HDFury on top of it? Do you think that has anything to do with the 3D problems with it? 

Also, any idea why Wide color gamut would be grayed out?


----------



## Brajesh

Yep, 3D problems started after installing the beta enhanced blacks firmware. The constant synch and left/right switching issues are annoying enough that I'm not bothering with 3D and waiting for the official firmware to come out (with the fix). AWOL had promised December, but either their engineers are still trying to find a solution or they're possibly waiting for CES to announce. Just guessing, but whatever it may be, hope they're close.


----------



## David-B

Dgtr74 said:


> The blacks to me are excellent when paired with the right screen (with the enhanced beta and even more so when combined with an HDFury with proper settings). With the firepower of the AWOL 3500, The brightness of the highlights truly makes the picture pop, especially with HDR content combined with the lower black floor. I’ve tested Dune and The Batman and it looks fantastic and very cinematic due to the scale of the image. If there’s a scene that you want me to test, let me know the time stamp. Can test it tonight.


I have watched "Dune" in 2d on my C9 and just watched it again in 3D on my AWOL 120. I was worried the black levels would detract, but I didn't even notice them. I watched Dune 3D on my Samsung LED 4k, and on my Samsung VR headset. I have to say watching it on a 120 inch screen in 3D was 1000% better.
I hope AWOL fixes the 3D, it's a huge pain to get started every time.

One of the reasons I bought the AWOL was specifically for the 3D, and it has more than exceeded my expectations.

Watching movies at home on a 120 inch screen AND in 3D makes me excited to pull out all of my 3D disks and watch all couple hundred movies again.

If you buy this projector and don't use it for 3D, you might as well buy any of the top rated ones.


----------



## paligap

Marc D Carra said:


> I've owned just about every brand of 3D TV and projector out there, including the pinnacle of 3D panels , the famous LG OLED 65E6P 4K passive 3D panel which provided the best, brightest 3D image of any panel ever released. I can honestly say the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500 is leaps and bounds better. Brighter, more colorful, more depth and popout, zero crosstalk. It's the best at home 3D experience I've ever had. I've also owned numerous DLP projectors, Epson 5050,5040, JVC 4K NX5, NX7 and a Sony 75Z9D 4K 3D flat panel. Nothing touches the 3D on the Awolvision LTV-3500. You're gonna need DLP-link active glasses though, preferably the Xpand 105 model. The ones you used with your flat panel won't work.
> Motion handling is also one of the best I've owned, without using any of the motion enhancement features. It's VERY good for movies. I don't watch sports.
> HDR is very good mostly due to the high brightness of the projector. Add an HDfury Vertex2 and you are in for some amazing Dolby Vision viewing. Although built-in Dolbyvision is supposed to be coming soon as an already promised firmware upgrade.


Thanks for the info. I don't know why I thought the 3500 already has Dolby Vision.


MMoser said:


> I definitely agree. I've been chasing 3D at home for a decade, and finally feel satisfied by bringing the AWOL 3500 to our theater! Add a HDFury and equip one of the most versitle EDID options to your chain to get LLDV.


Now I understand all the discussion about the HDFury (and the Vroom?)


Nuno Campos said:


> This would be the right forum for anything related to this AWOL, including any devices that might be connected to this projector. I think that it might prove helpful in sorting out issues or even in helping members get the best device that will give this projector the best milage.


I was not aware of all the issues. It makes sense to me now.


Brajesh said:


> Yep, 3D problems started after installing the beta enhanced blacks firmware. The constant synch and left/right switching issues are annoying enough that I'm not bothering with 3D and waiting for the official firmware to come out (with the fix). AWOL had promised December, but either their engineers are still trying to find a solution or they're possibly waiting for CES to announce. Just guessing, but whatever it may be, hope they're close.


So, to sum up, the 3500 does not currently have Dolby Vision, but an update to include it is promised. In the meantime, there are ways to deliver DV or something approaching it to the 3500. The 3D performance is excellent, but if you install some beta firmware to enhance black levels, it introduces problems with 3D. Thanks for the info, and sorry for derailing the thread.


----------



## Brajesh

Yep, you got it. DV is a 'nice to have'. Agree w/Dave & others that w/HDFury, PQ is so good, native DV may not be an improvement. But, not everyone will want to invest in and/or bother w/HDFury.


----------



## yodathekid

David-B said:


> I have watched "Dune" in 2d on my C9 and just watched it again in 3D on my AWOL 120. I was worried the black levels would detract, but I didn't even notice them. I watched Dune 3D on my Samsung LED 4k, and on my Samsung VR headset. I have to say watching it on a 120 inch screen in 3D was 1000% better.
> I hope AWOL fixes the 3D, it's a huge pain to get started every time.
> 
> One of the reasons I bought the AWOL was specifically for the 3D, and it has more than exceeded my expectations.
> 
> Watching movies at home on a 120 inch screen AND in 3D makes me excited to pull out all of my 3D disks and watch all couple hundred movies again.
> 
> If you buy this projector and don't use it for 3D, you might as well buy any of the top rated ones.


What screen do you use for your AWOL?


----------



## brokenconduit

brokenconduit said:


> Are you on the enhanced black Beta as well currently using HDFury on top of it? Do you think that has anything to do with the 3D problems with it?
> 
> Also, any idea why Wide color gamut would be grayed out?


I think I answered my own question, wide color gamut option does not work on HDR? Only when it is off of HDR?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> I think I answered my own question, wide color gamut option does not work on HDR? Only when it is off of HDR?


WCG is inherent with HDR so no need for it to be enabled/disabled. The WCG bumps up all SDR Rec 709 color values into the Rec 2020 color space--it makes 709 look like 2020 so more vibrant and colorful, but technically not accurate. It's basically like turning the color volume up from a 7 to a 11 without over over saturation. For most people it looks awesome! For purists you can turn it off.

I haven't used it with HDR content that haa been remuxed to SDR with WCG so I'm not sure how it will treat it. Usually people do this if they don't have a Dynamic Tone Mapping solution or have under 100 nits for HDR and are willing to sacrifice a Dynamic image for a brighter one whilst retaining the WCG.

I'm curious if anyone has tried it. Not really needed for the 3500, but might be beneficial to some with the 2500.


----------



## avkevin

I currently have an Onkyo AVR to switch video/audio sources to my AWOL 2500:
Source(s) > AVR > AWOL.

Can I connect the hdfury to the AVR hdmi out so it would then be:
Source(s) > AVR > HDfury > AWOL

Or does HDfury need to be connected to source and bypass the AVR for video?
Source(s) > HDfury > AWOL
with an audio out from the HDfury to the AVR.


----------



## brokenconduit

Casey_Bryson said:


> WCG is inherent with HDR so no need for it to be enabled/disabled. The WCG bumps up all SDR Rec 709 color values into the Rec 2020 color space--it makes 709 look like 2020 so more vibrant and colorful, but technically not accurate. It's basically like turning the color volume up from a 7 to a 11 without over over saturation. For most people it looks awesome! For purists you can turn it off.
> 
> I haven't used it with HDR content that haa been remuxed to SDR with WCG so I'm not sure how it will treat it. Usually people do this if they don't have a Dynamic Tone Mapping solution or have under 100 nits for HDR and are willing to sacrifice a Dynamic image for a brighter one whilst retaining the WCG.
> 
> I'm curious if anyone has tried it. Not really needed for the 3500, but might be beneficial to some with the 2500.


Got it. Ya it is grayed out when on HDR more anyway. I just got my projector, are there any things I should test/check to make sure it is working correctly. Like how would I spot a bad pixel or something? Run a test screen?


----------



## Dgtr74

brokenconduit said:


> Got it. Ya it is grayed out when on HDR more anyway. I just got my projector, are there any things I should test/check to make sure it is working correctly. Like how would I spot a bad pixel or something? Run a test screen?


@brokenconduit Congrats! Play around with it and you’ll learn quick. AWOL Has a huge community of users on their Facebook page as well and can provide quick support if needed. Get a screen if you haven’t already. Definitely, check out the 3D feature using actual blu-rays or mkv rips. Run a bunch of contents and enjoy.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dgtr74 said:


> @brokenconduit Congrats! Play around with it and you’ll learn quick. AWOL Has a huge community of users on their Facebook page as well and can provide quick support if needed. Get a screen if you haven’t already. Definitely, check out the 3D feature using actual blu-rays or mkv rips. Run a bunch of contents and enjoy.


Definitely! Been messing around with some stuff here and there, I am trying to figure out if I should eve deep dive into calibrating now or if I should wait for the enhanced black update to be released. Save myself some time.

And then on top of it what to purchase to help the picture from everything you all talk about here. HD Fury, Zidoo, etc...I have to read and understand better. Is MADVR not being used much for the AWOL as it is for like the Formovie Theater?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

brokenconduit said:


> Definitely! Been messing around with some stuff here and there, I am trying to figure out if I should eve deep dive into calibrating now or if I should wait for the enhanced black update to be released. Save myself some time.
> 
> And then on top of it what to purchase to help the picture from everything you all talk about here. HD Fury, Zidoo, etc...I have to read and understand better. Is MADVR not being used much for the AWOL as it is for like the Formovie Theater?


I use MadVR. I also have a Vrroom for DV/streaming and will be comparing it with MadVR+Videoprocessor once I get it setup. Too many projects at the moment, but I'll get to it eventually. I don't watch much streaming, but my girlfriend does so it's mostly so we can watch together in the Media Room since I'm a bit of a DTM snob.


----------



## Brajesh

A minor update in the Facebook group for enhanced blacks & DV:


> The two updates are still being worked on as we are fixing the bugs from the feedback on the Contrast/Black Level update,should be out in the next few weeks. DV is out of our control as we are waiting as patiently as you are for certification.


----------



## brokenconduit

I quickly setup the AWOL with my PS5 to test it out. I set it up with CEC enabled. Was working fine first day, AWOL remote controlled the PS5 menu/receiver volume, but randomly today it stopped working. Any ideas?


----------



## Venomx99

To those who have calibrated HDR. What setting did you use for HDR? Auto, Low, Middle, or High? Did you have Dynamic Contrast enabled?


----------



## Brajesh

HDR auto & dynamic contrast enabled. Would love to hear what others are using.


----------



## Venomx99

Brajesh said:


> HDR auto & dynamic contrast enabled. Would love to hear what others are using.


You had them enabled during the calibration, right?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Brajesh said:


> HDR auto & dynamic contrast enabled. Would love to hear what others are using.


I think you should use LOW if using any DTM, using a device that converts LLDV to HDR10, or if the HDR content is authored under 1000 nits. A lot of streaming is under 300 even though it states 1000 nits. 

I imagine Auto is based on the metadata in the header and there is plenty of content that doesn't have the right metadata or report the MaxFALL and MaxCLL correctly. I check every thing I play in HDR with MadVR info/statistics and you'd be surprised how often it happens.


----------



## Dgtr74

I have 2 settings I use (one for night and one for daytime viewing). At night I have Dynamic Contrast on and Auto HDR. Having HDR on Low blows out the highlights for me especially on VS10 engine. Auto HDR provided the best highlight details. For daytime viewing, Low HDR gIves me that extra brightness to cut through ambient light along. I have to say the 3500 performs amazing well with my windows open especially after my tweaked settings. It has replaced my TV. Been watching a bunch of DV/ATMOS movies/content while waiting for the 3D fix and I can’t emphasize enough how incredible the DV/HDR image looks on the 3500 (especially with the enhanced black beta+HDFury)!


----------



## Johnathan Jackson

Dgtr74 said:


> I have 2 settings I use (one for night and one for daytime viewing). At night I have Dynamic Contrast on and Auto HDR. Having HDR on Low blows out the highlights for me especially on VS10 engine. Auto HDR provided the best highlight details. For daytime viewing, Low HDR gIves me that extra brightness to cut through ambient light along. I have to say the 3500 performs amazing well with my windows open especially after my tweaked settings. It has replaced my TV. Been watching a bunch of DV/ATMOS movies/content while waiting for the 3D fix and I can’t emphasize enough how incredible the DV/HDR image looks on the 3500 (especially with the enhanced black beta+HDFury)!


What's the gain on your screen? Sun light tends to wash out my image but I also have a 0.45 gain screen. Supposedly, my screen rejects 96% of ambient light. I definitely need a little more time to play with it during the day light hours.


----------



## Venomx99

Dgtr74 said:


> EDIT: Found out after extensive testing with Zidoo z9x, Firestick, Nvidia Shield, Panasonic/Sony Blu-ray players to play DV content through (blu-ray disc, Netflix, Apple TV, Amazon Prime) this is the best DV setting for the LTV-3500.
> 
> *DO NOT leave the Max and Min luminance Blank: *This produces a dim/dull DV image in all sources.
> 
> Set Max luminance to: 10,000 nits
> Set Min luminance to: 0 nits
> 
> Be prepared to be blown away when playing any DV content


@Dgtr74, What are your settings in the "HDR/AVI" tab?


----------



## Dgtr74

Johnathan Jackson said:


> What's the gain on your screen? Sun light tends to wash out my image but I also have a 0.45 gain screen. Supposedly, my screen rejects 96% of ambient light. I definitely need a little more time to play with it during the day light hours.


Screen is 0.6 gain Vividstorm. I’ll be testing out a 0.8gain 150” motorized screen soon. Play around with brightness, contrast, chroma, gamma, and HDR level to get the best picture for daytime. I calibrated my brightness and contrast accordingly and always leave dynamic contrast on. Here’s a shot with my lights on. I’ll take a daytime pic with sunlight and show what that looks like also. 

**You may also have too much sun/ambient light


----------



## Johnathan Jackson

Dgtr74 said:


> Screen is 0.6 gain Vividstorm. I’ll be testing out a 0.8gain 150” motorized screen soon. Play around with brightness, contrast, chroma, gamma, and HDR level to get the best picture for daytime. I calibrated my brightness and contrast accordingly and always leave dynamic contrast on. Here’s a shot with my lights on. I’ll take a daytime pic with sunlight and show what that looks like also.
> 
> **You may also have too much sun/ambient light
> 
> View attachment 3383744


That's a gorgeous shot!


----------



## Dgtr74

Venomx99 said:


> @Dgtr74, What are your settings in the "HDR/AVI" tab?


Here you go. Also, for Max/Min Luminance under the DV tab, I use a value of 1000 and 0. 10,000 was actually way too bright and was blowing up the highlights.


----------



## yodathekid

Dgtr74 said:


> Screen is 0.6 gain Vividstorm. I’ll be testing out a 0.8gain 150” motorized screen soon. Play around with brightness, contrast, chroma, gamma, and HDR level to get the best picture for daytime. I calibrated my brightness and contrast accordingly and always leave dynamic contrast on. Here’s a shot with my lights on. I’ll take a daytime pic with sunlight and show what that looks like also.
> 
> **You may also have too much sun/ambient light
> 
> View attachment 3383744


There’s sunlight in that room?! Insane


----------



## Dgtr74

Dgtr74 said:


> Screen is 0.6 gain Vividstorm. I’ll be testing out a 0.8gain 150” motorized screen soon. Play around with brightness, contrast, chroma, gamma, and HDR level to get the best picture for daytime. I calibrated my brightness and contrast accordingly and always leave dynamic contrast on. Here’s a shot with my lights on. I’ll take a daytime pic with sunlight and show what that looks like also.
> 
> **You may also have too much sun/ambient light
> 
> View attachment 3383744


Here’s some daylight pics with all 4 windows open facing in front and to the side of the screen. The picture still looks great to me and the colors still pops. Very happy with the 3500’s performance whether it’s daytime or nighttime viewing.


----------



## Venomx99

Dgtr74 said:


> Here you go. Also, for Max/Min Luminance under the DV tab, I use a value of 1000 and 0. 10,000 was actually way too bright and was blowing up the highlights.
> View attachment 3383752
> 
> View attachment 3383751


Thanks.

Have you tried unchecking "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and sending the LLDV signal to the projector? It looks like it goes into DV mode. The Source Info shows DOVI for the HDR Format and the Image mode switches to HDR Null. Almost like DV support is there but hidden.


















Same scene with "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " checked is really dark.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> Dgtr74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Screen is 0.6 gain Vividstorm. I’ll be testing out a 0.8gain 150” motorized screen soon. Play around with brightness, contrast, chroma, gamma, and HDR level to get the best picture for daytime. I calibrated my brightness and contrast accordingly and always leave dynamic contrast on. Here’s a shot with my lights on. I’ll take a daytime pic with sunlight and show what that looks like also.
> 
> **You may also have too much sun/ambient light
> 
> View attachment 3383744
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s some daylight pics with all 4 windows open facing in front and to the side of the screen. The picture still looks great to me and the colors still pops. Very happy with the 3500’s performance whether it’s daytime or nighttime viewing.
> View attachment 3383808
> 
> View attachment 3383805
> 
> View attachment 3383806
> 
> View attachment 3383803
> 
> View attachment 3383807
> 
> View attachment 3383804
> 
> View attachment 3383802
> 
> View attachment 3383801
Click to expand...

Man, your align looks perfect on that Vividstorm, and if you're happy with the picture absolutely keep it, but as I mentioned in the Facebook group, if you experience any curling at the edges, I ran across this Vividstorm blog article that might be helpful. The gist of it is, you may be projecting larger than you need to:









Worried about curling around the edges of the screen? Your projection range is too big! !


We have always noticed that in many professional forums, social platforms, and even our own customers, there have been feedbacks about the curling of the edge of the screen affecting the edge projection image.We have given many explanations about this problem. In order to let customers who like...




vividstormscreen.com


----------



## Dgtr74

Venomx99 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Have you tried unchecking "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and sending the LLDV signal to the projector? It looks like it goes into DV mode. The Source Info shows DOVI for the HDR Format and the Image mode switches to HDR Null. Almost like DV support is there but hidden.
> 
> View attachment 3383813
> 
> View attachment 3383814
> 
> 
> Same scene with "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " checked is really dark.
> View attachment 3383815


Yep, I’ve tried that before and unchecked that box but I lose a bunch of shadow details. See images below. This 1st image is “HDR Null” with "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" unchecked. 

**I’m running the enhanced black beta and before this beta..this scene did not look this good and contrasty. Add in the HDFury, it’s even better.









This 2nd image is my preferred setting for nighttime viewing.









This 3rd image is my preferred setting for “Daytime” viewing and really cuts through the ambient light AND still retains all the details of the image.


----------



## Dgtr74

For those with the enhanced black beta and HDFury/custom settings (@Brajesh @Casey_Bryson), can you try playing Echo 3 Episode 9 on ATV+? It’s streamed in DV. Basically, the entire episode is a super low APL scene torture test for projectors. After watching the entire episode and comparing it to my OLED/MiniLED displays, I can say that the AWOL 3500 passed with flying colors. It looked incredibly good, especially on the large screen. Frame for frame, it looked nearly identical to the OLED. Has very good blacks and shadow details. Here’s a still shot comparison. Very hard to capture correctly, looked much better in person. See if you can tell which is the OLED and which is the AWOL.😀










*OLED on the left, AWOL 3500 on the right*


----------



## Venomx99

Dgtr74 said:


> Yep, I’ve tried that before and unchecked that box but I lose a bunch of shadow details. See images below. This 1st image is “HDR Null” with "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" unchecked.
> 
> **I’m running the enhanced black beta and before this beta..this scene did not look this good and contrasty. Add in the HDFury, it’s even better.
> View attachment 3383909
> 
> 
> This 2nd image is my preferred setting for nighttime viewing.
> View attachment 3383911
> 
> 
> This 3rd image is my preferred setting for “Daytime” viewing and really cuts through the ambient light AND still retains all the details of the image.
> View attachment 3383912


I have to be doing something wrong then. For me, enabling the custom HDR option causes the picture to get darker overall. 

I reset my Vertex 2 and restarted my ATV and did the steps below.

1. Started playing and HDR video in YT to get an HDR signal.
2. Copied the first 4 hex groups in the CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section of the HDR/AVI tab (87:01:1a:7a)
3. Pasted the copied hex groups in the HDR METADATA GENERATOR and added 02 (87:01:1a:7a:02)
4. Clicked Send HDR. (Nothing happened on the screen. I don't know if something is supposed to)
5. Enabled "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV"
6. Setup "CONSTRUCT CUSTOM DOLBY VISION DATA BLOCK (for advanced users only)" like below, clicked Create then Send DV. (The screen refreshed so something happened.)








7. Went to EDID Tab and enabled CUSTOM DV STRING in AUTOMIX. (Screen refreshed again)
8. Rebooted the ATV and Vertex2.
9. Started playing The Mosquito Coast on ATV (Confirmed in the INFO tab that IN TX0 was lldv and VIDEO TX0 was HDR)
11. Unchecked "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and the picture gets brighter.


----------



## Dgtr74

Venomx99 said:


> I have to be doing something wrong then. For me, enabling the custom HDR option causes the picture to get darker overall.
> 
> I reset my Vertex 2 and restarted my ATV and did the steps below.
> 
> 1. Started playing and HDR video in YT to get an HDR signal.
> 2. Copied the first 4 hex groups in the CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section of the HDR/AVI tab (87:01:1a:7a)
> 3. Pasted the copied hex groups in the HDR METADATA GENERATOR and added 02 (87:01:1a:7a:02)
> 4. Clicked Send HDR. (Nothing happened on the screen. I don't know if something is supposed to)
> 5. Enabled "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV"
> 6. Setup "CONSTRUCT CUSTOM DOLBY VISION DATA BLOCK (for advanced users only)" like below, clicked Create then Send DV. (The screen refreshed so something happened.)
> View attachment 3384256
> 
> 7. Went to EDID Tab and enabled CUSTOM DV STRING in AUTOMIX. (Screen refreshed again)
> 8. Rebooted the ATV and Vertex2.
> 9. Started playing The Mosquito Coast on ATV (Confirmed in the INFO tab that IN TX0 was lldv and VIDEO TX0 was HDR)
> 11. Unchecked "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and the picture gets brighter.


Did you zero out all the numbers after the “02” like the shot below? I don’t have a ATV to test but I tested on my FTV Cube 3, Nvidia Shield Pro, and Zidoo Z9X and all respond the same way to my adjustments on the HDFury vrroom. The settings is pretty much set it and forget it. Once I set up the vrroom, then I only need to adjust the AWOL settings to my liking.


----------



## Venomx99

Dgtr74 said:


> Did you zero out all the numbers after the “02” like the shot below? I don’t have a ATV to test but I tested on my FTV Cube 3, Nvidia Shield Pro, and Zidoo Z9X and all respond the same way to my adjustments on the HDFury vrroom. The settings is pretty much set it and forget it. Once I set up the vrroom, then I only need to adjust the AWOL settings to my liking.
> 
> View attachment 3384284


I did not but I’ll do that. Why is your fourth hex value different than mine? Shouldn’t it be the same?


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dgtr74 said:


> For those with the enhanced black beta and HDFury/custom settings (@Brajesh @Casey_Bryson), can you try playing Echo 3 Episode 9 on ATV+? It’s streamed in DV. Basically, the entire episode is a super low APL scene torture test for projectors. After watching the entire episode and comparing it to my OLED/MiniLED displays, I can say that the AWOL 3500 passed with flying colors. It looked incredibly good, especially on the large screen. Frame for frame, it looked nearly identical to the OLED. Has very good blacks and shadow details. Here’s a still shot comparison. Very hard to capture correctly, looked much better in person. See if you can tell which is the OLED and which is the AWOL.😀
> 
> View attachment 3384153
> 
> 
> *OLED on the left, AWOL 3500 on the right*


Very impressive. I’ll compare with my Lumagen.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Looks like with the new update coming out, the LTV-3500 will now be the LTV-3500 Pro. It will have the enhanced contrast, filmmaker mode, and I guess better 24fps handling.


----------



## Dgtr74

arsenalfc89 said:


> Very impressive. I’ll compare with my Lumagen.


That’ll be awesome! Very curious to know what your results are.😀


----------



## Dgtr74

arsenalfc89 said:


> Looks like with the new update coming out, the LTV-3500 will now be the LTV-3500 Pro. It will have the enhanced contrast, filmmaker mode, and I guess better 24fps handling.


I saw the YouTube clip of the AWOL booth at CES. Very excited! Looks like more enhancements are packed in to the next update. LTV-3500 Pro sounds awesome and appropriate for the image performance this thing puts out.😀


----------



## Dgtr74

Venomx99 said:


> I did not but I’ll do that. Why is your fourth hex value different than mine? Shouldn’t it be the same?


I see. That’s probably the issue. Those 0‘s make a big difference. My understanding is your hex value may be different based on your source and captured HDR metadata. See if this fixes everything then it’s just tweaking/calibrating your AWOL settings to your liking and enjoy all the DV content. No need to mess around with HDFury after that.


----------



## adrift

Dgtr74 said:


> arsenalfc89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like with the new update coming out, the LTV-3500 will now be the LTV-3500 Pro. It will have the enhanced contrast, filmmaker mode, and I guess better 24fps handling.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw the YouTube clip of the AWOL booth at CES. Very excited! Looks like more enhancements are packed in to the next update. LTV-3500 Pro sounds awesome and appropriate for the image performance this thing puts out.😀
Click to expand...

Here's the video for anyone who hasn't seen it:





Also, sounds like they're boosting lumens for the 2500 and calling it the 2500+, which will be nice for owners of that machine.


----------



## Nuno Campos

adrift said:


> Here's the video for anyone who hasn't seen it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, sounds like they're boosting lumens for the 2500 and calling it the 2500+, which will be nice for owners of that machine.


I really like they have their biggest screen with their best projector playing Avatar in 3D. They are really cementing the 3500 as the projector to get if you want stellar 3D.


----------



## leo0111127

24 fps and PJLink, can be upgraded?


----------



## Dave Harper

Venomx99 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Have you tried unchecking "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and sending the LLDV signal to the projector? It looks like it goes into DV mode. The Source Info shows DOVI for the HDR Format and the Image mode switches to HDR Null. Almost like DV support is there but hidden.
> 
> View attachment 3383813
> 
> View attachment 3383814
> 
> 
> Same scene with "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " checked is really dark.
> View attachment 3383815





Venomx99 said:


> I have to be doing something wrong then. For me, enabling the custom HDR option causes the picture to get darker overall.
> 
> I reset my Vertex 2 and restarted my ATV and did the steps below.
> 
> 1. Started playing and HDR video in YT to get an HDR signal.
> 2. Copied the first 4 hex groups in the CAPTURED INPUT HDR METADATA section of the HDR/AVI tab (87:01:1a:7a)
> 3. Pasted the copied hex groups in the HDR METADATA GENERATOR and added 02 (87:01:1a:7a:02)
> 4. Clicked Send HDR. (Nothing happened on the screen. I don't know if something is supposed to)
> 5. Enabled "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV"
> 6. Setup "CONSTRUCT CUSTOM DOLBY VISION DATA BLOCK (for advanced users only)" like below, clicked Create then Send DV. (The screen refreshed so something happened.)
> View attachment 3384256
> 
> 7. Went to EDID Tab and enabled CUSTOM DV STRING in AUTOMIX. (Screen refreshed again)
> 8. Rebooted the ATV and Vertex2.
> 9. Started playing The Mosquito Coast on ATV (Confirmed in the INFO tab that IN TX0 was lldv and VIDEO TX0 was HDR)
> 11. Unchecked "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV " and the picture gets brighter.


This is what I’ve been trying to say about sending “RAW LLDV” and then using my latest technique to give an incredible and tone mapped image free of what appears to be HDR metadata that seems to hamper the overall image where my LLDV solution is concerned. 

I can’t wait to see the new stuff they’ve brought to the table!


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dgtr74 said:


> That’ll be awesome! Very curious to know what your results are.😀


Here's what it looks like with the Lumagen. I sometimes forget how much the black level has improved when comparing it to my previous pictures lol. Also the Lumagen tone mapping is exceptional.


----------



## Dgtr74

arsenalfc89 said:


> Here's what it looks like with the Lumagen. I sometimes forget how much the black level has improved when comparing it to my previous pictures lol. Also the Lumagen tone mapping is exceptional.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3384751


Dang, that looks incredible! Fantastic tone mapping and blacks! Now, you have me thinking I may need to look into a Lumagen or MadVR.😂


----------



## adrift

What's the difference between the Lumagen and the HDFury? Are they both tone mappers?


----------



## cec68

adrift said:


> What's the difference between the Lumagen and the HDFury?


A few thousand dollars 💲💲💲💲


----------



## Dave Harper

You can pretty much get the same end result using an HDFury with LLDV.


----------



## arsenalfc89

adrift said:


> What's the difference between the Lumagen and the HDFury? Are they both tone mappers?


You can get great tone mapping results with an HDFury, especially with the new settings but a Lumagen is still a step up. The combination of excellent tone mapping using any source (to me it’s better than LLDV), the 3D LUT capabilities, game mode, instant aspect ratio switching, and so much more. It’s the only thing that can make your projector look like it should be worth a lot more. You really have to see it in person.


----------



## Dave Harper

arsenalfc89 said:


> You can get great tone mapping results with an HDFury, especially with the new settings but a Lumagen is still a step up. The combination of excellent tone mapping using any source (to me it’s better than LLDV), the 3D LUT capabilities, game mode, instant aspect ratio switching, and so much more. It’s the only thing that can make your projector look like it should be worth a lot more. You really have to see it in person.


Totally agree! Whenever I put out there about the HDFury and LLDV, it is merely as a cheaper alternative for getting great DTM with an amazing image on screen when setup with the right parameters. Not everyone can afford the likes of a Lumagen or MadVR Envy, so this is pretty much the only game in town after those high ticket items. 

The only reason I always bring it up is because so many people don’t even mention it when others ask about what they can do to get a great HDR image on screen, so they mistakenly think they have to save up or force themselves to buy something they probably can’t afford and shouldn’t, or just do without. 

Great DTM is not an all or nothing proposition. There are affordable solutions out there, but many people discount it as a hack and unworthy of praise or mention for God knows what reasons (sales?). 

Of course as I always say, if your budget allows, then definitely go for a Lumagen or Envy!


----------



## Nuno Campos

Dave Harper said:


> There are affordable solutions out there, but many people discount it as a hack and unworthy of praise or mention for God knows what reasons (sales?).


I have also noticed that. I find it strange and somewhat upsetting that the major websites that review projectors and also youtube channels that are home theatre oriented never mention HDFury products. If the Vrroom is turning maximizing the capacities of a given projector, then it should absolutely be discussed. By I think it like you said, it is to do with sales. Pushing and selling a madvr for 20 or 30 times more than what a vrroom costs will give them a bigger margin. We’ve discussed this before when the last shootout happened, by I really don’t like the approach of we don’t sell it, so it doesn’t exist. If you’re a youtube channel that sells home theatre equipment, I understand that you would no talk about stuff you don’t represent, but if you are a hardware review, home theatre oriented, why haven you covered the vroomm yet? Every one like you that has used it, considers it a holy grail of some sorts.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Dave Harper said:


> Totally agree! Whenever I put out there about the HDFury and LLDV, it is merely as a cheaper alternative for getting great DTM with an amazing image on screen when setup with the right parameters. Not everyone can afford the likes of a Lumagen or MadVR Envy, so this is pretty much the only game in town after those high ticket items.
> 
> The only reason I always bring it up is because so many people don’t even mention it when others ask about what they can do to get a great HDR image on screen, so they mistakenly think they have to save up or force themselves to buy something they probably can’t afford and shouldn’t, or just do without.
> 
> Great DTM is not an all or nothing proposition. There are affordable solutions out there, but many people discount it as a hack and unworthy of praise or mention for God knows what reasons (sales?).
> 
> Of course as I always say, if your budget allows, then definitely go for a Lumagen or Envy!


Completely agree and yeah the HDFURY is definitely not just a hack. I was using the Vertex2 for a very long time and it was and is worth every penny.


----------



## cleverdevil

Wow, just discovered that this thread is alive and well, and there's a lot to catch up on! I have some questions for the hivemind, but for context, my setup:

LTV-3500
Pioneer VSX-LX305 with 5.1.4 configuration (including two subwoofers)
AWOL 120" cinematic ALR screen
Apple TV 4K (latest) as the primary input device
Synology NAS running Plex with my movie library, which includes many UHD / HDR Remuxes
I absolutely adore the setup so far, but I haven't been keeping up with the home theater world for a long time, so am playing major catch-up on all of the jargon, tech, etc.

Here are my outstanding questions, specifically related to the AWOL / video side of things:

I have absolutely no idea how to properly calibrate the thing. In the past, I used a calibration DVD that helped me dial things in, but now there are so many additional settings, this is my first "real" projector, and I feel a little lost. I am happy to pay for a professional calibration, but I also know that a lot is still changing with the firmware on the AWOL and potentially the input devices I will be using. Any recommended defaults that work for a dark room, acknowledging that every room is a bit different? Once things settle, I can find a good pro locally to help.
While I love the ease of use of the Apple TV, its integration with the rest of my family's devices, the excellent Plex App, my HomeKit setup, etc., it has a ton of shortcomings. It doesn't support "all" of Dolby Vision and doesn't passthrough Atmos for lossless audio, for example. I have read about alternative players like NVIDIA Shield Pro, Zidoo Z9X, Dune HD, etc., but I can't make heads or tails of the right path here.
I also have seen the recent conversation here around the HDFury. This is an entirely new concept to me as well! Is this something I need to care about?
I am not on the AWOL Facebook group (refuse to re-join Facebook for a number of reasons), so this is my best place to ask questions.


----------



## eleazar

cleverdevil said:


> While I love the ease of use of the Apple TV, its integration with the rest of my family's devices, the excellent Plex App, my HomeKit setup, etc., it has a ton of shortcomings. It doesn't support "all" of Dolby Vision and doesn't passthrough Atmos for lossless audio, for example. I have read about alternative players like NVIDIA Shield Pro, Zidoo Z9X, Dune HD, etc., but I can't make heads or tails of the right path here.
> I also have seen the recent conversation here around the HDFury. This is an entirely new concept to me as well! Is this something I need to care about?


I am in the exact same boat on these 2 questions (including not being on Facebook, so this forum is my only source of information). 

Currently using and mostly loving the AppleTV for its seamless integration with our phones and ease of use for the family. Thinking the best route for me will be to run a secondary device specifically for watching movies and good shows. Meanwhile, the ATV will still be used for most consumption when family is watching non-exciting content 😅

Also I was watching this video (at this specific timestamp), and he indicates the LTV-3500 "Pro" software update will cost money. He also says the the contrast update will be free. I find that pretty interesting.


----------



## cleverdevil

eleazar said:


> I am in the exact same boat on these 2 questions (including not being on Facebook, so this forum is my only source of information).
> 
> Currently using and mostly loving the AppleTV for its seamless integration with our phones and ease of use for the family. Thinking the best route for me will be to run a secondary device specifically for watching movies and good shows. Meanwhile, the ATV will still be used for most consumption when family is watching non-exciting content 😅
> 
> Also I was watching this video (at this specific timestamp), and he indicates the LTV-3500 "Pro" software update will cost money. He also says the the contrast update will be free. I find that pretty interesting.


Yeah, I am thinking that I will get a second device specifically for "movie night" which probably will have a terrible user experience, but will give me the best possible picture/sound. I can just point something like a Zidoo or Dune HD at my Synology NAS and movie library over NFS or SMB, and bypass Plex. Not ideal, but it would work.

"Pro" update? That costs money? Are they high? If that happens, I will raise a large stink with them, and if they go through with it, I will almost certainly cell my AWOL and get a different projector. I didn't invest many thousands of dollars to be nickel and dimed on firmware. Ridiculous.


----------



## adrift

cleverdevil said:


> Wow, just discovered that this thread is alive and well, and there's a lot to catch up on! I have some questions for the hivemind, but for context, my setup:
> 
> LTV-3500
> Pioneer VSX-LX305 with 5.1.4 configuration (including two subwoofers)
> AWOL 120" cinematic ALR screen
> Apple TV 4K (latest) as the primary input device
> Synology NAS running Plex with my movie library, which includes many UHD / HDR Remuxes
> I absolutely adore the setup so far, but I haven't been keeping up with the home theater world for a long time, so am playing major catch-up on all of the jargon, tech, etc.
> 
> Here are my outstanding questions, specifically related to the AWOL / video side of things:
> 
> I have absolutely no idea how to properly calibrate the thing. In the past, I used a calibration DVD that helped me dial things in, but now there are so many additional settings, this is my first "real" projector, and I feel a little lost. I am happy to pay for a professional calibration, but I also know that a lot is still changing with the firmware on the AWOL and potentially the input devices I will be using. Any recommended defaults that work for a dark room, acknowledging that every room is a bit different? Once things settle, I can find a good pro locally to help.
> While I love the ease of use of the Apple TV, its integration with the rest of my family's devices, the excellent Plex App, my HomeKit setup, etc., it has a ton of shortcomings. It doesn't support "all" of Dolby Vision and doesn't passthrough Atmos for lossless audio, for example. I have read about alternative players like NVIDIA Shield Pro, Zidoo Z9X, Dune HD, etc., but I can't make heads or tails of the right path here.
> I also have seen the recent conversation here around the HDFury. This is an entirely new concept to me as well! Is this something I need to care about?
> I am not on the AWOL Facebook group (refuse to re-join Facebook for a number of reasons), so this is my best place to ask questions.


I usually go to Projector Central for calibration suggestions, in their review they mentioned that it is pretty well calibrated right out of the box:

_Out of the box, the Movie mode with default settings displayed a respectable average grayscale deltaE error of 3.5, though with rather uneven results across the full brightness range and higher errors above 4.0 dE below the 30% brightness level and above 80%. This is still close enough to accurate for most users, though as noted above I strongly recommend turning MEMC to its lowest or off setting. (Delta E describes how far a projector's grayscale or color space are from accurate; anything under 3 is considered close enough to perfect to be undetectable to most viewers.)_

That review was done before the beta for the enhanced contrast was announced, so I don't know if that will change anything. I mainly have mine set to Standard mode, with few tweaks here and there (MEMC turned off except for 3D which I'm experimenting with).

As a streaming device, I think probably the NVIDIA Shield Pro is _still_ the best go-to. It doesn't support HDR 10+ at all, and it doesn't support HDR in Youtube, and it's definitely showing its age now, but so far it still seems to do more than the rest. There was some talk about the 3rd generation Firestick Cube some pages back, and while it has quite a bit going for it, as I recall it doesn't do lossless audio playback over Plex, it has a standard USB 2.0 port and a 100mb Ethernet port instead of gigabit, which is a bit of a downer. I'll let others discuss the benefits of the Zidoo and Dune, but I think their strong suits are playing blue-ray rips.

I'll also let others chime in on the HDFury, but briefly, as I understand it, some TVs and most projectors have a hard time managing HDR/DV to their full glory. For projectors its the limitation of light output. Devices like the HDFury allow users to custom manage (tone map) this for projectors. I'm looking on grabbing one down the road, but as of now, it's nice to read other's findings with their AWOL's.


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## Brajesh

On settings, I'll share mine in a few hours. I'm not settled on them, but overall satisfied, until tinkering gets me to the absolute best results possible. Would be great to have a central place to house everyone's settings vs. all over this thread. Maybe after we all share ours, we can ask the OP to link to each from his post #1.

Agree with @adrift on nVidia Shield TV Pro. It's still the best serious home theater box available. I also use Zidoo Z9X, but mainly rely on it for 3D and HDR10+. Haven't decided yet if I prefer native 10+ vs. the HDFury'd tone-mapped version. On HDFury, IMHO it's worth it, especially with the latest LLDV trick @Dave Harper discovered, but it isn't essential.


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## Nuno Campos

If you go to 3m18s he mentions that the new Pro ugrade is gonna be a paid option.
First time I’m hearing it. Can anyone else confirm this is indeed the case?
He also mentions the free upgrade for dynamic laser control that will improve the contrast ratio.
But I’m somewhat shocked they are gonna be charging for the pro upgrade.


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## Brajesh

Hope it isn't a paid upgrade. That isn't a way to remain competitive in this very competitive UST market.


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## avkevin

Brajesh said:


> Hope it isn't a paid upgrade. That isn't a way to remain competitive in this very competitive UST market.


Especially since it's still such a new hardware product and company. Apple doesn't charge for their updates and they're adding new features to existing hardware all the time to keep customers even more happy. Charging for these new features isn't a great way to support the existing avid customer base. Give us the updates for free so we can all talk up the projectors even more!


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## yodathekid

Nuno Campos said:


> If you go to 3m18s he mentions that the new Pro ugrade is gonna be a paid option.
> First time I’m hearing it. Can anyone else confirm this is indeed the case?
> He also mentions the free upgrade for dynamic laser control that will improve the contrast ratio.
> But I’m somewhat shocked they are gonna be charging for the pro upgrade.


In the comments, he says contrast upgrade is free, but PJLink and 24P mode are pay


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