# AVS FORUM BEST OF 2021 AWARDS



## Mashie Saldana

It's time to sit back, have some popcorn and enjoy the show. I have a feeling quite a few forum members will disagree with this list.


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## PixelPusher15

Uh oh....


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## PixelPusher15

Mashie Saldana said:


> It's time to sit back, have some popcorn and enjoy the show. I have a feeling quite a few forum members will disagree with this list.


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## M0ltar

PixelPusher15 said:


>


I’m ready to take in the festivities.


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## harsh

Why are AV processors that can't do full HDMI 2.1 in the running?


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## J. Atkinson

Mashie Saldana said:


> It's time to sit back, have some popcorn and enjoy the show. I have a feeling quite a few forum members will disagree with this list.


I welcome members sharing their favorites in the categories.


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## J. Atkinson

harsh said:


> Why are AV processors that can't do full HDMI 2.1 in the running?


What exact feature do they not have that you need?


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## luv2fly3

J. Atkinson said:


> I welcome members sharing their favorites in the categories.


I'll start. 

I disagree with the Roku Ultra as a best streamer. I've owned an Ultra and switched to an Nvidia Shield several years back. The capabilities and customization of the Shield are far superior to the Roku. Even direct streaming from Plex was a challenge with the Roku. The Roku excels in being very easy to use, but as far as an overall capable device, with full customization of the video and audio output to match the display and audio devices, the Shield is much better...in my opinion.

I do fully agree with the choice of the Anthem AVM 70 for under $5K, although truth be told, I haven't used much else. But I love my AVM 70 and even with some of its "bugs" and quirks, it's still an amazing piece of AV tech, especially given all ARC can do with it.

Not sure I'd agree with the Sony 325 as the best projector under $10K either. Having seen my Sony 385 against a JVC NX7, head to head, the NX7 is superior for sure. It's much brighter and the HDR tone mapping isn't even in the same class. While I know the NX series is being replaced by the new NZ models, the NX is still availble so I'd sure give the nod to the JVC, even as a Sony owner.


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## J. Atkinson

luv2fly3 said:


> I'll start.
> 
> I disagree with the Roku Ultra as a best streamer. I've owned an Ultra and switched to an Nvidia Shield several years back. The capabilities and customization of the Shield are far superior to the Roku. Even direct streaming from Plex was a challenge with the Roku. The Roku excels in being very easy to use, but as far as an overall capable device, with full customization of the video and audio output to match the display and audio devices, the Shield is much better...in my opinion.
> 
> I do fully agree with the choice of the Anthem AVM 70 for under $5K, although truth be told, I haven't used much else. But I love my AVM 70 and even with some of its "bugs" and quirks, it's still an amazing piece of AV tech, especially given all ARC can do with it.


The Shield was second in votes. The Roku Ultra for the price is pretty sweet.


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## Archaea

Any chance AVSForum would like to submit one of the recommended best of class Sony's to our KC Projector Shootout in early Jan? They'd be head to head vs. JVC NZ, NX series and Epson 5050UB:








Kansas City Projector Shootout (Jan 8th-9th)


Straight off the heel of the hugely successful theater crawl with @youthman last weekend I am organizing a full blown projector shootout for the Kansas City area. He has agreed to come and film. This shootout will include the below projectors as of now… JVC NZ8 @M0ltar JVC NZ7 @M0ltar JVC NX7...




www.avsforum.com





Current contendors:
JVC NZ8
JVC NZ7
JVC NX7
Optoma 50X
Epson 5050
Epson 3800
Sony VW-295ES


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## cricket9998

No offense, but I stopped reading at roku being the best streamer and a Sony being the best PJ under 10k… no way.


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## Chirosamsung

Roku???!?!!? Seriously lol


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## PixelPusher15

I’m just a bit stumped by the 325ES pick, and the 3 year old Sony AVR under $1k. It’s woefully outdated compared to many other options.

What is the reasoning for these two Sony picks?


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## J. Atkinson

cricket9998 said:


> No offense, but I stopped reading at roku being the best streamer and a Sony being the best PJ under 10k… no way.


But you didn’t read the intro at all or you’d know it’s a favorite list more than a true “best” because that would be impossible to do in every category.

The Sony 325ES is a rather nice piece of gear.

Arguably one could argue one of the DLPs might be better or perhaps a JVC unit.


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## J. Atkinson

PixelPusher15 said:


> I’m just a bit stumped by the 325ES pick, and the 3 year old Sony AVR under $1k. It’s woefully outdated compared to many other options.
> 
> What is the reasoning for these two Sony picks?


Besides a DLP model and a JVC the 325ES has very little competition.

The NX series vs the 325ES is a showdown for sure. JVC placed second in every projector category from $25K down.

The NZ may replace it next year but we have to wait to get one to review fully.

As for the receiver that’s easy. It was awesome when it came out and just plain works. With Denon and Yamaha having HDMI issues and Onkyo and Pioneer not delivering product it was a category where an old solid unit can win out.


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## KermitThor

@PixelPusher15 what are your thought on the Seymour Neo?


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## goldmanr2004

We are honored to be named as the Best Soundbar for our Fusion Reference Soundbar.


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## M0ltar

J. Atkinson said:


> But you didn’t read the intro at all or you’d know it’s a favorite list more than a true “best” because that would be impossible to do in every category.
> 
> The Sony 325ES is a rather nice piece of gear.
> 
> Arguably one could argue one of the DLPs might be better or perhaps a JVC unit.


I don’t see where it says favorites. There is talk slot best products over and over and over. So if this is a favorites list instead shouldn’t that be said somewhere?

EDIT: never mind. I reread it and it says favorites in the middle. Maybe out that in the title though? Kind of misleading.


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## J. Atkinson

M0ltar said:


> I don’t see where it says favorites. There is talk slot best products over and over and over. So if this is a favorites list instead shouldn’t that be said somewhere?
> 
> EDIT: never mind. I reread it and it says favorites in the middle. Maybe out that in the title though? Kind of misleading.


Generally all Best of lists are favorites. Best is entirely subjective.


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## clausdk

J. Atkinson said:


> But you didn’t read the intro at all or you’d know it’s a favorite list more than a true “best” because that would be impossible to do in every category.
> 
> The Sony 325ES is a rather nice piece of gear.
> 
> Arguably one could argue one of the DLPs might be better or perhaps a JVC unit.


Which is exactly what I was thinking. Why not replace "Best" with "Favorite" as you mention here yourself. The use of the word "best", even though the intro tries to explain that it is infact just favorites, wouldn't have been my first choice of words here. Stereophile also uses "recommended", rather than "best".

Also you could've included 2-3 pieces of gear pr. category in an alphabetical order to acknowledge the fact that there is a lot of "best" gear out there that caters to different people.

I actually think that the list is a great piece of work although I disagree with a lot of it. Thank you for doing it. The wording could've been a bit more careful. But hey, atleast the post count will be high this way.


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## J. Atkinson

clausdk said:


> Which is exactly what I was thinking. Why not replace "Best" with "Favorite" as you mention here yourself. The use of the word "best", even though the intro tries to explain that it is infact just favorites, wouldn't have been my first choice of words here. Stereophile also uses "recommended", rather than "best".
> 
> Also you could've included 2-3 pieces of gear pr. category in an alphabetical order to acknowledge the fact that there is a lot of "best" gear out there that caters to different people.
> 
> I actually think that the list is a great piece of work although I disagree with a lot of it. Thank you for doing it. The wording could've been a bit more careful. But hey, atleast the post count will be high this way.


Because “Best” describes it just fine. These aren’t the “Very Best” Awards. Favorites can still make up a “Best” list. As I mentioned some of these might not be the very best but they’re definitely of the best.


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## eljaycanuck

Errata (the ones that caught my eye):

Sony 325ES --> Sony VPL-VW325ES
Sony A9 --> Sony HT-A9
HSU Research VF3-MK5 --> HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 HP
Rhythmik F18 --> Rythmik F18
PSA S-42 IPAL --> PSA S42 IPAL


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## J. Atkinson

eljaycanuck said:


> Errata:
> 
> HSU Research VF3-MK5 <-- VTF-3 MK5 HP
> Rhythmik F18 <-- Rythmik
> PSA S-42 IPAL <-- S42


Thank you. I’ll go fix that.


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## wnydel2

I love the article and list. That’s part of the fun when you see top lists or best of lists for anything, thinking what you would add, delete, replace or reshuffle.

I’ll just say that I will give an honorable mention/addition to JTR for subwoofers. And speakers, above certain price points.


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## J. Atkinson

wnydel2 said:


> I love the article and list. That’s part of the fun when you see top lists or best of lists for anything, thinking what you would add, delete, replace or reshuffle.
> 
> I’ll just say that I will give an honorable mention/addition to JTR for subwoofers. And speakers, above certain price points.


JTR is a great company and product. Maybe I should list the runners up and nominees.


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## PixelPusher15

J. Atkinson said:


> Besides a DLP model and a JVC the 325ES has very little competition.
> 
> The NX series vs the 325ES is a showdown for sure. JVC placed second in every projector category from $25K down.
> 
> The NZ may replace it next year but we have to wait to get one to review fully.
> 
> As for the receiver that’s easy. It was awesome when it came out and just plain works. With Denon and Yamaha having HDMI issues and Onkyo and Pioneer not delivering product it was a category where an old solid unit can win out.


That's odd reasoning for the Sony AVR when it doesn't even try to support HDMI 2.1 which is the only issue the other brands have. They all fully support HDMI 2.0, just like the Sony. There's also now the Denon x1700h and S760 that have three 40gbps (without bugs) HDMI 2.1 ports. 

But oh well, this is just a favorites list even though it doesn't read like one.


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## PixelPusher15

KermitThor said:


> @PixelPusher15 what are your thought on the Seymour Neo?


Good screen from a good company. Strictly speaking about screen material I wouldn't put it as my favorite or best.


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## wnydel2

I forgot to mention, that pick for the TCL 5 Series is great. I got a 55” for a spare room and just wanted something “cheap”, but I have been super impressed at the quality for that price point.


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## J. Atkinson

PixelPusher15 said:


> That's odd reasoning for the Sony AVR when it doesn't even try to support HDMI 2.1 which is the only issue the other brands have. They all fully support HDMI 2.0, just like the Sony. There's also now the Denon x1700h and S760 that have three 40gbps (without bugs) HDMI 2.1 ports.
> 
> But oh well, this is just a favorites list even though it doesn't read like one.


I strongly disagree. HDMI 2.0 passes on VRR just fine. So what on 2.1 is needed or missing?

The Denon units even the new ones have horrific handshake issues with certain TV brands. Good luck getting your new Denon to not drive you insane if you own a Vizio.

There is something to be said about not having to switch inputs repeatedly to get your handshake.


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## J. Atkinson

wnydel2 said:


> I forgot to mention, that pick for the TCL 5 Series is great. I got a 55” for a spare room and just wanted something “cheap”, but I have been super impressed at the quality for that price point.


The PQ is insane for the price….


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## Kothoga

Pretty solid list, can't make everyone happy.


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## imagic

Best list on AVS Forum with no Denon and no JVC, lol. I made fresh popcorn what I saw that!

Happy new year everybody. I hope you have the best 2022.


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## imagic

J. Atkinson said:


> I strongly disagree. * HDMI 2.0 passes on VRR just fine. So what on 2.1 is needed or missing?*
> 
> The Denon units even the new ones have horrific handshake issues with certain TV brands. Good luck getting your new Denon to not drive you insane if you own a Vizio.
> 
> There is something to be said about not having to switch inputs repeatedly to get your handshake.


4K frame rates above 60 Hz is what's missing, FWIW.


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## J. Atkinson

Mark Henninger said:


> 4K frame rates above 60 Hz is what's missing, FWIW.


Really? My Sony receiver passes on 4K 120 according to the TV from the series X.


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## Archaea

J. Atkinson said:


> Really? My Sony receiver passes on 4K 120 according to the TV from the series X.


Not 4K, 120Hz with HDR and VRR if it isn’t HDMI 2.1

Denon supposedly fixed their HDMI issues in May of 2021, but yes the HDMI 2.1 issue has been a disappointment for the Denon and Yamaha owners. (Especially the Yamaha owners because they weren’t given a fix). The early Denon HDMI 2.1 receiver owners were given a external HDMI box that fixes the issue. None of this is the fault of the AVR companies. It’s a ongoing HDMI standards fiasco. Denon made it right for their customers and my hat is off to them. My launch purchased Denon x6700h is doing HDMI 2.1 from the Xbox series X as expected through the free fix, an external HDMI box at 4K 120Hz HDR.


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## imagic

J. Atkinson said:


> Really? My Sony receiver passes on 4K 120 according to the TV from the series X.


Edit... (and then edited again)

Sure. But the point being made was about VRR. WIth HDMI 2.0, what your Xbox sees must be support for 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 8-bit 4K at 120 Hz. But I'm guessing no VRR, no HDR due to the 18 GHz bandwidth limitations (edit - well, you can have HDR metadata with 8-bit video, sure, but there will be picture quality issues with that approach). I am always open to being wrong, but AFAIK that's how it works out.

While gamers can do 120 Hz 4K with HDMI 2.0, HDMI, it is bandwidth-starved. HDMI 2.1 gets you 10-bit HDR and VRR above 60 Hz (which is sort of the whole point), so I'd say for a gamer HDMI 2.0 does leave something on the table.

And while you could connect directly to a display, you'd also want eARC on the AVR, if you had an Atmos system you wanted to use for gaming.


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## J. Atkinson

Archaea said:


> Not 4K, 120Hz with HDR and VRR if it isn’t HDMI 2.1
> 
> Denon supposedly fixed their HDMI issues in May of 2021, but yes the HDMI 2.1 issue has been a disappointment for the Denon and Yamaha owners. (Especially the Yamaha owners because they weren’t given a fix). The early Denon HDMI 2.1 receiver owners were given a external HDMI box that fixes the issue. None of this is the fault of the AVR companies. It’s a ongoing HDMI standards fiasco. Denon made it right for their customers and my hat is off to them. My launch purchased Denon x6700h is doing HDMI 2.1 from the Xbox series X as expected through the free fix, an external HDMI box at 4K 120Hz HDR.


I have the box fix and the new AVR. The issues are still there but not as bad. This IS the manufacturer not on HDMI. They rushed and bought the wrong HDMI board.


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## J. Atkinson

Mark Henninger said:


> Edit...
> 
> Sure. But the point being made was about VRR. WIth HDMI 2.0, what your Xbox sees must be support for 4:2:2 SDR 4K at 120 Hz. But I'm guessing no VRR, no HDR due to the 18 GHz bandwidth limitations. Open to being wrong, but AFAIK that's how it works out.
> 
> So while gamers can do 120 Hz 4K with HDMI 2.0, HDMI, 2.1 gets you HDR and VRR, so I'd say for a gamer HDMI 2.0 does leave something on the table. And while you could connect directly to a display, you'd also want eARC on the AVR, if you had an Atmos system you wanted to use for gaming.


my TV says 4K 120 and in HD10 mode.


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## imagic

J. Atkinson said:


> my TV says 4K 120 and in HD10 mode.


Then you are seeing 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 8-bit color but with HDR metadata. There's gonna be banding issues doing that, but sure technically it's there.

Anyhow, only gamers can really use what HDMI 2.1 offers from a video format perspective, at least at this point in time. But for gamers, the point is HDMI 2.0 does leave something on the table.



https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc


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## BigIUFan

J. Atkinson said:


> The Denon units even the new ones have horrific handshake issues with certain TV brands. Good luck getting your new Denon to not drive you insane if you own a Vizio.


Is there a forum thread or other link that you can provide that discusses the new units in more detail? Is this one person, 10 people, more? All Vizio? Which "certain" TV *brands*?

Thanks.


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## hifiHigh

Mashie Saldana said:


> It's time to sit back, have some popcorn and enjoy the show. I have a feeling quite a few forum members will disagree with this list.


That's why there's no such animal as "the best this" and "the best that". 
It's what best for the end user....purely subjective.


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## imagic

hifiHigh said:


> That's why there's no such animal as "the best this" and "the best that".
> *It's what best for the end user....purely subjective.*


Indeed, subjective _and_ circumstantial... where we wind up is: "the best for this, IMO" and "the best for that, IMO"


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## Mashie Saldana

hifiHigh said:


> That's why there's no such animal as "the best this" and "the best that".
> It's what best for the end user....purely subjective.


Yes, which is why the entire article should do a search and replace of "best" with "AVS preferred".

The Sony projector as best over $50k, it would probably been better as best under $100k as I have a feeling neither Barco nor Cristie owners agree with that statement.


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## J. Atkinson

Mashie Saldana said:


> Yes, which is why the entire article should do a search and replace of "best" with "AVS preferred".
> 
> The Sony projector as best over $50k, it would probably been better as best under $100k as I have a feeling neither Barco nor Cristie owners agree with that statement.


That would be bad for business. Best Of Awards have existed forever on multiple platforms and has almost always been subjective.

As for the Sony comment….It beat the Eclipse. It beat the Barco units. Price for performance ratio the Sony in that price range is incredibly hard to beat. Similar to why the Shield didn’t win best streamer. The Ultra is just a price/performance champ. Same with the GTZ380 in comparison to projectors costing 6 times as much.

A lot of thought goes into the picks. When it’s an overall or over a price point then the price becomes part of the equation.


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## hopefullguy

gee you guys get sucked in so easily.. these threads are made up to cause members to have a go, to stir things up about essentually meaningless opinions and you all just got sucked in.. oh crap, i just posted.. well done op you got me too.


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## MinMan1

goldmanr2004 said:


> We are honored to be named as the Best Soundbar for our Fusion Reference Soundbar.
> View attachment 3217019


WOW! - horizontally oriented MTM / MMT speakers for HT?


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## MDJAK

I am awaiting delivery of a JTR sub. Watching Youthman’s home theater crawls, seems JTR owns 75 percent of the sub home theater market. As they say about dog poop, a thousand flies can’t be wrong.

Ive been reading The Absolute Sound for decades, probably since its inception, and they’ve had editor choice issues as long as I can recall. Yet, I’ve never heard of the sub you choose but will look into it.

Appreciate all your hard work.


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## J. Atkinson

MDJAK said:


> I am awaiting delivery of a JTR sub. Watching Youthman’s home theater crawls, seems JTR owns 75 percent of the sub home theater market. As they say about dog poop, a thousand flies can’t be wrong.
> 
> Ive been reading The Absolute Sound for decades, probably since its inception, and they’ve had editor choice issues as long as I can recall. Yet, I’ve never heard of the sub you choose but will look into it.
> 
> Appreciate all your hard work.


JTR makes great product. I wouldn’t say they own much of the HT sub market, however. It’s popular on here for certain.

JL Audio, JBL Synth rule the sales world.

Subs are a much fought over category here. SVS, Rythmik, PSA, HSU, Monolith all have proud fans on here.


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## GaGaDot

* Best AV Processor Under $10,000 *Acurus Muse, Lyngdorf MP-40 
both are very sleepy pre-processor


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## Archaea

Mark Henninger said:


> Then you are seeing 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 8-bit color but with HDR metadata. There's gonna be banding issues doing that, but sure technically it's there.
> 
> Anyhow, only gamers can really use what HDMI 2.1 offers from a video format perspective, at least at this point in time. But for gamers, the point is HDMI 2.0 does leave something on the table.
> 
> 
> 
> https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc


Yeah. Somethings wrong there.

All the new HDMI 2.1 features like ALLM, QFT, QMT, VRR, 8K 60Hz HDR, 4K 120Hz HDR aren’t available.
Everything I’m reading says 18Gbps isn’t sufficient for 4K, 120Hz, HDR. You can have 4K, 120Hz and no HDR if you choose 8 bit, 4:2:0. If you add HDR, it can’t pass 4K and 120Hz, you’d have to drop to 1440p or 1080p. Must be some sort of auto upscaling his TV is doing. I see multiple websites saying this. I can’t find anyone saying you should be able to have 4K 120Hz and HDR on a 18Gbps port.


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## M0ltar

Archaea said:


> Yeah. Somethings wrong there.
> 
> All the new HDMI 2.1 features like ALLM, QFT, QMT, VRR, 8K 60Hz HDR, 4K 120Hz HDR aren’t available.
> Everything I’m reading says 18Gbps isn’t sufficient for 4K, 120Hz, HDR. You can have 4K, 120Hz and no HDR if you choose 8 bit, 4:2:0. If you add HDR, it can’t pass 4K and 120Hz, you’d have to drop to 1440p or 1080p. Must be some sort of auto upscaling his TV is doing. I see multiple websites saying this. I can’t find anyone saying you should be able to have 4K 120Hz and HDR on a 18Gbps port.


That’s true. You can run it with less than 48gbps, but it’s not going to run on 18. Colorspace is going to a big factor to this. Lessening it like you said could make it possible, but you’re not getting the full experience even though you think you are.


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## J. Atkinson

BigIUFan said:


> Is there a forum thread or other link that you can provide that discusses the new units in more detail? Is this one person, 10 people, more? All Vizio? Which "certain" TV *brands*?
> 
> Thanks.


I don’t know if there is a thread or not. I’m the editor here not an employee of Denon to do the research on their HDMI board issues.

I speak from personal experience in reviewing product. I have hooked these units up to multiple devices. Denon and Yamaha had horrible handshake issues. Denon released a fix that is definitely better but still not that great.

God forbid you get an older unit because the dongle is out of stock and thus no fix.

It’s not an issue that makes the units bad or anything. It’s annoying. It is something you can live with (and I have with my personal 4700H). It’s just enough of a PITA to not win to a device that chose to wait and be upgradable.

Working and upgradable > HDMI 2.1 with handshake issues. In my opinion. If it was reviewed for gaming purposes it definitely would be different. However, for movies and our industry 2.0 right now is doing just fine.


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## squared80

harsh said:


> Why are AV processors that can't do full HDMI 2.1 in the running?


Wait until the 2022 list.


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## harsh

J. Atkinson said:


> What exact feature do they not have that you need?


The bandwidth to support high/variable frame rate source material and gaming with computers and advanced consoles (Xbox X and PS5) is apparently a show stopper for many. When dropping large fractions of a Bitcoin on a piece of gear, one shouldn't expect to be denied access to fairly widespread technology.


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## J. Atkinson

harsh said:


> The bandwidth to support high/variable frame rate source material and gaming with computers and advanced consoles (Xbox X and PS5) is apparently a show stopper for many. When dropping large fractions of a Bitcoin on a piece of gear, one shouldn't expect to be denied access to fairly widespread technology.


what source material besides gaming?

the HDMI 2.1 argument is silly to me. Those that provided it rushed and came out with quirky gear that didn’t really work. No one has a 2.1 AVR or processor without bugs. The massive bugs are gone but there are still substantial HDMI handshake issues.

When certain manufacturers won’t make a unit with the currently available HDMI boards because they say they’re too buggy you pay attention.

Even Sony maker of the PS5 doesn’t have an HDMI 2.1 receiver yet.

At least the products mentioned have upgrade paths when a reliable board is available.

Currently Panasonic is working with Trinnov to design a new HDMI 2.1 board after their collaboration on the 2.0 board did so well.

Currently there really isn’t enough content to justify making HDMI 2.1 a requirement for selection on this list.


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## JBMeteo

I love 'best of' lists, there are so many of them


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## thecodingart

URC TRC-1080… *cringe


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## thecodingart

J. Atkinson said:


> what source material besides gaming?
> 
> the HDMI 2.1 argument is silly to me. Those that provided it rushed and came out with quirky gear that didn’t really work. No one has a 2.1 AVR or processor without bugs. The massive bugs are gone but there are still substantial HDMI handshake issues.
> 
> When certain manufacturers won’t make a unit with the currently available HDMI boards because they say they’re too buggy you pay attention.
> 
> Even Sony maker of the PS5 doesn’t have an HDMI 2.1 receiver yet.
> 
> At least the products mentioned have upgrade paths when a reliable board is available.
> 
> Currently Panasonic is working with Trinnov to design a new HDMI 2.1 board after their collaboration on the 2.0 board did so well.
> 
> Currently there really isn’t enough content to justify making HDMI 2.1 a requirement for selection on this list.


Thought processes like yours are why HDFury devices exist. To pick up the slack….


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## J. Atkinson

thecodingart said:


> Thought processes like yours are why HDFury devices exist. To pick up the slack….


I badly want to test their DR 8K thingy.


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## J. Atkinson

thecodingart said:


> URC TRC-1080… *cringe


With no Logitech around we need better solutions now. Universal Remotes need new blood or a big cool update from a known player.


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## audioguy

Seriously? Having been in many homes and heard/seen many products (as well as my own favorites), I REALLY struggle with the term BEST. There are so many things I disagree with on this list - and some that are plainly incorrect - like *"The GTZ at 10K lumens doesn’t need tone mapping. It’s real HDR. It can actually produce the brightness needed. No tricks."* -- blatantly wrong. 

I will just let it go. WOW, is the only term that comes to mind. Just WOW.


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## imagic

audioguy said:


> Seriously? Having been in many homes and heard/seen many products (as well as my own favorites), I REALLY struggle with the term BEST. There are so many things I disagree with on this list, I will just let it go. WOW, is the only term that comes to mind. Just WOW.


Hey, "Best AVR of 2021" goes to a Sony that shipped in 2017 and JVC wins no projector categories, in a list that has _18 categories_ for speakers. What is one to conclude other than that Sony is like fine wine, it somehow got better with age? Mind you, it is a mighty fine AVR at its price point, but the way I personally interpret "Best of 2021" is the best (insert product here) that came out in 2021.

Now that I shared an IMO, I'm going to go back to living my "Best Life"


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## audioguy

Had the title been "A/V Products we heard and seen we like", I might have been OK. But there are way too many just incorrect statements.


Mashie Saldana said:


> *Yes, which is why the entire article should do a search and replace of "best" with "AVS preferred"*.
> 
> The Sony projector as best over $50k, it would probably been better as best under $100k as I have a feeling neither Barco nor Cristie owners agree with that statement.


Amen to the bolded statement above!


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## mikela

As far as I'm concerned this article has no basis in reality.


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## JOHNRIEB

OK so my 60 inch Pioneer Plasma still looks great, but my Denon AVR3808ci died. This system was state of the art in 2007 lol. No gamer here, just movies, sports and music. The Sony (even though it's 3+ years old) sounds like a great replacement, or should I go with the Denon avrS960h? Have a great 7.1 Intimus Aperion Audio Speaker and Sub Set up.


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## J. Atkinson

audioguy said:


> Seriously? Having been in many homes and heard/seen many products (as well as my own favorites), I REALLY struggle with the term BEST. There are so many things I disagree with on this list - and some that are plainly incorrect - like *"The GTZ at 10K lumens doesn’t need tone mapping. It’s real HDR. It can actually produce the brightness needed. No tricks."* -- blatantly wrong.
> 
> I will just let it go. WOW, is the only term that comes to mind. Just WOW.


Blatantly wrong?!?

I know I misworded it in a hurry replying at CES.

I meant specifically you can’t fake sunlight brightness etc that a powerful light can provide.

Most projectors have fauxDR not HDR. You can’t compare the HDR results of a high end TV with a projector. Except for the GTZ and others like it that can actually get super bright.

It’s hard to write for the masses and keep the science guys happy. I’ll work harder on taking my time and choosing the right words so I don’t get taken literally when I’m shooting from the hip.


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## J. Atkinson

mikela said:


> As far as I'm concerned this article has no basis in reality.


Mike,

You’re absolutely right. Better return your Trinnov it’s not based in reality.


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## audioguy

J. Atkinson said:


> Blatantly wrong?!?


Yes, blatantly wrong. Go re-read what Kris Deering posted.


> It’s hard to write for the masses and keep the science guys happy.


As long as the "science" you quote is accurate, should be no issue at all. 


> Mike,
> 
> You’re absolutely right. Better return your Trinnov it’s not based in reality.


If you are so easily offended by AVSForum members who don't like or take exception to what you wrote, and striking back with the infantile response as you did here, you may want to either think about why you are getting so many negative comments on your article and significantly adjust your approach and writing style, or consider a line of work where you don't get this kind of feedback.


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## J. Atkinson

audioguy said:


> Yes, blatantly wrong. Go re-read what Kris Deering posted.
> 
> As long as the "science" you quote is accurate, should be no issue at all.
> 
> If you are so easily offended by AVSForum members who don't like or take exception to what you wrote, and striking back with the infantile response as you did here, you may want to either think about why you are getting so many negative comments on your article and significantly adjust your approach and writing style, or consider a line of work where you don't get this kind of feedback.


My response wasn’t infantile.

I asked all members to not attack the list. It’s ok to disagree and think something else should win. I suggested members nominate their own and help make this thread even better.

Instead we got some people bashing and lot more positive responses.

This list has gone extremely well actually, even if you don’t like it. I mean one of the people talking lip went and did the same thing (writing best articles). 

So I responded to hyperbole with hyberbole.

If the list isn’t based in reality how is it that he owns some of it?


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## squared80

J. Atkinson said:


> My response wasn’t infantile.
> 
> I asked all members to not attack the list. It’s ok to disagree and think something else should win. I suggested members nominate their own and help make this thread even better.
> 
> Instead we got some people bashing and lot more positive responses.
> 
> This list has gone extremely well actually, even if you don’t like it. I mean one of the people talking lip went and did the same thing (writing best articles).
> 
> So I responded to hyperbole with hyberbole.
> 
> If the list isn’t based in reality how is it that he owns some of it?


Rise above, Administrator. Take the high road.


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## kaelaria

You really shouldn’t have lead with the Roku besting the shield lol! Having both, I have to wonder if you guys even used them. Not even close, in any feature lol. Sorry but with that, I know the whole list is out the window. Not even opinion, it’s like saying a Honda Civic beats a Lexus.


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## J. Atkinson

kaelaria said:


> You really shouldn’t have lead with the Roku besting the shield lol! Having both, I have to wonder if you guys even used them. Not even close, in any feature lol. Sorry but with that, I know the whole list is out the window. Not even opinion, it’s like saying a Honda Civic beats a Lexus.


Not really. There isn’t any spec that the Shield dominates in. It’s more like comparing a civic to a civic ex and for some reason the ex model costs the same price as what 4 civics?

Price/Performance ratio the Roku Ultra wins hands down and is the most likely reason for the win (I voted for a Modulus).


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## kaelaria

J. Atkinson said:


> Not really. There isn’t any spec that the Shield dominates in. It’s more like comparing a civic to a civic ex and for some reason the ex model costs the same price as what 4 civics?
> 
> Price/Performance ratio the Roku Ultra wins hands down and is the most likely reason for the win (I voted for a Modulus).


Lol you didn’t title it best value. Totally different things. No spec? Now I know for sure you guys aren’t familiar with them.
The shield is faster in all regards. Boot, app open, navigation. Bigger App Library. Huge gaming support. Pass through of all audio including dtsx and atmos unlike all others. Hell, that alone solidifies it to anyone serious. Usb connections for storage. Far better remote with google control.
What a joke lol


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## jwc1969

J. Atkinson said:


> With no Logitech around we need better solutions now. Universal Remotes need new blood or a big cool update from a known player.


Agree. The person who finally designs a sanely priced wi-fi-based (rather than IR or RF) universal remote that "just works" (using an old Apple line) with all AV products, is easily programmable by the consumer using computer software with an incredibly intuitive GUI, makes glitches easy to troubleshoot in a step by step manner, and maybe appears as an app on one's phone rather than yet another outboard device to get lost in the cushion will probably win the Nobel Peace prize. Considering we've sent men to the moon it really shouldn't be that hard, should it? Maybe I'm naive. If so let me have it; I have thick skin.


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## J. Atkinson

kaelaria said:


> Lol you didn’t title it best value. Totally different things. No spec? Now I know for sure you guys aren’t familiar with them.
> The shield is faster in all regards. Boot, app open, navigation. Bigger App Library. Huge gaming support. Pass through of all audio including dtsx and atmos unlike all others. Hell, that alone solidifies it to anyone serious. Usb connections for storage. Far better remote with google control.
> What a joke lol


You name a streaming service with DTS and maybe that would matter. In the best streamer category if what you’re talking about is performance and bests should only be performance based my vote for Modulus (which does pass DTSX) would be the hands down winner.

It has 6TB of storage. It copies UHD Blu Rays. It records streaming. You can record Netflix! It also has gaming abilities. 

IF gaming mattered to how well something streams.

It doesn’t. So for STREAMING, the editorial staff found the Roku a better value and thus more worthy. Again the Shield is quicker, but for streaming quality/ease of use combo the Roku has an argument.


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## audioguy

J. Atkinson said:


> It doesn’t. So for STREAMING, the editorial staff found the Roku a *better value* and thus more worthy. Again the Shield is quicker, but for streaming quality/ease of use combo the Roku has an argument.


But, the title of this thread is "BEST of 2021" and not "BEST *VALUE* of 2021". Those are two completely different lists.


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## jwc1969

audioguy said:


> Yes, blatantly wrong. Go re-read what Kris Deering posted.
> 
> As long as the "science" you quote is accurate, should be no issue at all.
> 
> If you are so easily offended by AVSForum members who don't like or take exception to what you wrote, and striking back with the infantile response as you did here, you may want to either think about why you are getting so many negative comments on your article and significantly adjust your approach and writing style, or consider a line of work where you don't get this kind of feedback.


Audioguy, judging by your signature link to Lamentations 3:22-23 ("The faithful love of the Lord never ends! His mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness; his mercies begin afresh each morning.") it seems you identify as a Christian. Let this ex-Catholic atheist ask this question both of you and so many others on this thread/site: would the Lord appreciate you jumping down a guy's throat who wrote what amounts to an opinion piece? Is that what Jesus would do? Talk about hypocrisy. I swear...as much as I love this forum, I also hate it—the nitpicking, the snark, the angry discourse...WTF. It's a hobby, guys. Have fun with it. Lighten the f#^K up. And maybe, as a 2022 New Year's resolution, consider not treating everything written that's antithetical to your AV opinion tantamount to someone calling your wife fat. One can disagree without being disagreeable. In a nutshell, maybe you—maybe ALL of us—should exit our acoustically paneled, pitch black home theater rooms, step into the fresh air/sunshine and consider being nicer, more empathetic people in 2022.


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## J. Atkinson

audioguy said:


> But, the title of this thread is "BEST of 2021" and not "BEST *VALUE* of 2021". Those are two completely different lists.


Who am I to tell my staff what parameters to use to make their decisions?

Don’t you think if the streaming experience was that much better the value and ease aspects would have been null and void?

It’s a sum of all parts.


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## kaelaria

J. Atkinson said:


> You name a streaming service with DTS and maybe that would matter. In the best streamer category if what you’re talking about is performance and bests should only be performance based my vote for Modulus (which does pass DTSX) would be the hands down winner.
> 
> It has 6TB of storage. It copies UHD Blu Rays. It records streaming. You can record Netflix! It also has gaming abilities.
> 
> IF gaming mattered to how well something streams.
> 
> It doesn’t. So for STREAMING, the editorial staff found the Roku a better value and thus more worthy. Again the Shield is quicker, but for streaming quality/ease of use combo the Roku has an argument.


My God, you guys really did do this just from website specs and marketing blurbs didn't you? It's called local file streaming through Plex. Full disc rips/remux. Wow. Total joke. You guys should be embarrassed. What you really need to do now is retitle this whole thing and make crystal clear, which devices you guys HAVE and have REAL experience with vs just benchracing specs.


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## thecodingart

J. Atkinson said:


> With no Logitech around we need better solutions now. Universal Remotes need new blood or a big cool update from a known player.


I believe this is a bit of a "universal" (pun intended) statement for even when Logitech was around. I maybe highly disagreed with, but Logitech remotes have provided some of the lowest quality, slowest and dumb founded solutions I've ever experienced. The simple fact that a remote API call had to make a full round trip on the high end Harmonies should speak for itself. I've had the best experience with 2 remotes from a form factor and reliability side thus far (serving different needs/markets). The Caavo and Neeo remotes. I haven't experience much competition to either of these and I would really like to.. especially competition with more flexibility.


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## J. Atkinson

kaelaria said:


> My God, you guys really did do this just from website specs and marketing blurbs didn't you? It's called local file streaming through Plex. Full disc rips/remux. Wow. Total joke. You guys should be embarrassed. What you really need to do now is retitle this whole thing and make crystal clear, which devices you guys HAVE and have REAL experience with vs just benchracing specs.


I know what it is. It’s not a streamer feature. Just as being a DVR is wicked for Modulus.

I own both silly.


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## thecodingart

kaelaria said:


> My God, you guys really did do this just from website specs and marketing blurbs didn't you? It's called local file streaming through Plex. Full disc rips/remux. Wow. Total joke. You guys should be embarrassed. What you really need to do now is retitle this whole thing and make crystal clear, which devices you guys HAVE and have REAL experience with vs just benchracing specs.


Anyone who credits a Roku box as a quality streaming device should be ashamed. For consumer streaming devices there’s literally 2 choices and one has audio limitations, the other inferior performance on the OS. Just from me saying that, everyone here should know what they are.. How popular Plex and Infuse are as interfaces should also say a lot.


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## kaelaria

J. Atkinson said:


> I know what it is. It’s not a streamer feature. Just as being a DVR is wicked for Modulus.
> 
> I own both silly.


Then you know the shield, with plex, does DVR too.


thecodingart said:


> Anyone who credits a Roku box as a quality streaming device should be ashamed. For consumer streaming devices there’s literally 2 choices and one has audio limitations, the other inferior performance on the OS. Just from me saying that, everyone here should know what they are.. How popular Plex and Infuse are as interfaces should also say a lot.


Exactly. They will try and justify and save face but there's no going back.


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## kaelaria

thecodingart said:


> Anyone who credits a Roku box as a quality streaming device should be ashamed. For consumer streaming devices there’s literally 2 choices and one has audio limitations, the other inferior performance on the OS. Just from me saying that, everyone here should know what they are.. How popular Plex and Infuse are as interfaces should also say a lot.


This post will reach the status of Verge Computer Build legend lol - holy crap I just realized - maybe that's what they intended?! Marketing GENIOUS!


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## audioguy

jwc1969 said:


> Audioguy, judging by your signature link to Lamentations 3:22-23 ("The faithful love of the Lord never ends! His mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness; his mercies begin afresh each morning.") it seems you identify as a Christian. Let this ex-Catholic atheist ask this question both of you and so many others on this thread/site: would the Lord appreciate you jumping down a guy's throat who wrote what amounts to an opinion piece? Is that what Jesus would do? Talk about hypocrisy. I swear...as much as I love this forum, I also hate it—the nitpicking, the snark, the angry discourse...WTF. It's a hobby, guys. Have fun with it. Lighten the f#^K up. And maybe, as a 2022 New Year's resolution, consider not treating everything written that's antithetical to your AV opinion tantamount to someone calling your wife fat. One can disagree without being disagreeable. In a nutshell, maybe you—maybe ALL of us—should exit our acoustically paneled, pitch black home theater rooms, step into the fresh air/sunshine and consider being nicer, more empathetic people in 2022.


I think I hear what you are saying, but if you are saying we are not supposed to disagree with someone who posts what, for example, is inaccurate information (the comments on the Sony projector come to mind), then we get to agree to disagree. Furthermore, be accurate and call the thread what it is: "AVS Recommended Components"

If I did "name calling", then for that I sincerely apologize. And since I have never met the man, I have no reason to believe his is not a nice guy. 

But, Mr. Atkinson is the Editor of this forum and, according to his initial announcement, has 25 years experience this the A/V industry. Many come to this forum to get knowledge and education on the various kinds of products that are discussed here, and by his title alone, Mr. Atkinson would be looked to as someone who should be able to provide a high level of expertise. Given that, I have issue with some of his rather "loose" product descriptions - some of which are totally incorrect, and others are just "thrown out there" with ZERO background behind his assertions. Example of the first: his inaccurate comments on the newest Sony projector. Examples of the second: "Triad a joke" and "JBL is yesterday's news", and I could go on. How are either of those comments helpful to anyone? Not helpful to potential reader and certainly not help to the companies he noted. There was no background to either of those statements on why he felt that way. When pressed, he then said, as it relates to JBL, ":*JBL Synth is still good stuff *_and I haven’t bashed them_". Calling them "yesterday's news" in not bashing them? (and no, I don't own nor ever have owned JBL products). About Triad, when pressed, he said: "_If press don’t call them out they won’t improve_". How is calling them a "joke" providing information for them to improve? John Atkinson is not just anyone who happens to post on AVS. He is the Editor. I sure never had any issue with his predecessor. 

But you know what? After having thought about your comments, I will drop this. If the company he works for has no issues with his approach, and everyone on the forum thinks his approach is beneficial to both the readers and the manufacturers, I will drop the subject.


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## spacecowboy

Mashie Saldana said:


> It's time to sit back, have some popcorn and enjoy the show. I have a feeling quite a few forum members will disagree with this list.


Instead of disagreeing with the list from @J. Atkinson , I look forward to aquainting myself with gear I may never have thought of or considered and seeing why it made the list as recommended. I didn't really see anything that I disagreed with, just curious why some other things didn't make "best of" or "runner up". Can't be mad at something you never listened to, or heard of.


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## harsh

J. Atkinson said:


> what source material besides gaming?


Does there need to be other applications (i.e. 8K, computers with odd frame rates and higher resolutions, proper handling of DolbyVision and HLG)?


> Even Sony maker of the PS5 doesn’t have an HDMI 2.1 receiver yet.


Sony's response is that their 4K TVs support eARC. That's not a great answer but it is a viable workaround.


> At least the products mentioned have upgrade paths when a reliable board is available.


Maybe they will maybe they won't. It could be a while as Yamaha has made abundantly clear by their inaction.


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## J. Atkinson

kaelaria said:


> Then you know the shield, with plex, does DVR too.
> 
> Exactly. They will try and justify and save face but there's no going back.


No, it does not record streaming. The Modulus has the patent. It’s the only current device capable of recording Netflix, Disney+ etc.

You guys can jump around until blue in the face, but the Roku Ultra does a very good job now with PQ and SQ in comparison to the Shield. For a fraction of the price and without a lot of adding that the majority aren’t interested in. 




harsh said:


> Does there need to be other applications (i.e. 8K, computers with odd frame rates and higher resolutions, proper handling of DolbyVision and HLG)?Sony's response is that their 4K TVs support eARC. That's not a great answer but it is a viable workaround.
> 
> Maybe they will maybe they won't. It could be a while as Yamaha has made abundantly clear by their inaction.


1. Good question. Let me think on that.

2. Sony has a solution at least. There are ways around it via eARC (it’s what I did in the review of the NAD T778).

3. I can’t speak for Yamaha. I know Anthem and NAD have launch plans when supply is available for a new board. Trinnov too.


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## harsh

J. Atkinson said:


> I know Anthem and NAD have launch plans when supply is available for a new board. Trinnov too.


In this day and age of mind-boggling manufacturing and transportation issues, counting one's chickens before they've hatched is terribly bad practice. If a 400lb gorilla in the marketplace hasn't managed it, it probably isn't as easy as all that. Then again, if your market is smaller than a few thousand units and/or your equipment is modular, it may well be easier.


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## J. Atkinson

harsh said:


> In this day and age of mind-boggling manufacturing and transportation issues, counting one's chickens before they've hatched is terribly bad practice. If a 400lb gorilla in the marketplace hasn't managed it, it probably isn't as easy as all that. Then again, if your market is smaller than a few thousand units and/or your equipment is modular, it may well be easier.


NAD has been replacing HDMI boards since 1.3. With clockwork.

I trust Anthem.

It’s not counting chickens it’s in writing. It’s upgradable. Yamaha no such thing. However Anthem has it in writing when you buy this model it comes upgradable for HDMI.


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## Peter M

Can you give a bit of background to the choice of Procella P28 as Best Cinema Speaker ?

Cheers,


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## J. Atkinson

Peter M said:


> Can you give a bit of background to the choice of Procella P28 as Best Cinema Speaker ?
> 
> Cheers,


Peter,

Thanks for jumping in! This is surreal. I was reading your build post a decade ago. The thread made me dive into Procella a bit more. I had of course heard their P6 and others but it was at the same time I was working with a company that was selling Procella. It was why I was on the Forum educating myself on Forum opinion of the line.

Then a decade later you ask why we chose the P28 for an Award.

Because everyone can’t afford an LCR layout of their full size line up. The P28 is a great product, basically the P8 doubled.

I don’t know how they stand up in Australia price wise, but here in the States Procella is a leader in the whole price and performance ratio. To us the P28 signifies one of their best performance per dollar spent examples.

I personally LOVE the sound of Procella Audio, I describe it as clinically detailed but with SOUL.


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## Peter M

LOL that is surreal !

They don't really have much market share in Oz as Gerben concentrates on the US, Europe and China, which are obviously much larger markets. The fact that he lives about 5 mins from me in Sydney was a big factor in my decision to go with them.

I still have the P610s up front but am toying with a bit of a mad idea - buy 3 x P28 + 3 x P10Si, move the P6 parts of the P610s to above the screen as heights, and use a P28 with two P10Si for each of the LCR. So they'd be WMTMW arranged vertically !

Cheers,


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## J. Atkinson

Peter M said:


> LOL that is surreal !
> 
> They don't really have much market share in Oz as Gerben concentrates on the US, Europe and China, which are obviously much larger markets. The fact that he lives about 5 mins from me in Sydney was a big factor in my decision to go with them.
> 
> I still have the P610s up front but am toying with a bit of a mad idea - buy 3 x P28 + 3 x P10Si, move the P6 parts of the P610s to above the screen as heights, and use a P28 with two P10Si for each of the LCR. So they'd be WMTMW arranged vertically !
> 
> Cheers,


I am drooling.


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## thecodingart

kaelaria said:


> Then you know the shield, with plex, does DVR too.
> 
> Exactly. They will try and justify and save face but there's no going back.


J.Atkinson has posted some questionable things in other posts as well. For me, his comments have become less reliable and respectable and more of a personal opinion to take with a grain of sand. It’s pretty sad because I expect more here. The irony in this is I didn’t even recognize he was the OP, and now it makes sense to me based on other conversations he’s had in the forums.


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## MUDCAT45

J. Atkinson said:


> what source material besides gaming?
> 
> the HDMI 2.1 argument is silly to me. Those that provided it rushed and came out with quirky gear that didn’t really work. No one has a 2.1 AVR or processor without bugs. The massive bugs are gone but there are still substantial HDMI handshake issues.
> 
> When certain manufacturers won’t make a unit with the currently available HDMI boards because they say they’re too buggy you pay attention.
> 
> *Even Sony maker of the PS5 doesn’t have an HDMI 2.1 receiver yet.*


Has Sony gotten to 2.0 yet?


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## MUDCAT45

jwc1969 said:


> Agree. The person who finally designs a sanely priced wi-fi-based (rather than IR or RF) universal remote that "just works" (using an old Apple line) with all AV products, is easily programmable by the consumer using computer software with an incredibly intuitive GUI, makes glitches easy to troubleshoot in a step by step manner, and maybe appears as an app on one's phone rather than yet another outboard device to get lost in the cushion will probably win the Nobel Peace prize. Considering we've sent men to the moon it really shouldn't be that hard, should it? Maybe I'm naive. If so let me have it; I have thick skin.


My Harmony remote is as large as my phone and no easier to lose. I can grab it and make instant adjustments. All phone/ PC apps require a start time and defeat the purpose of a remote.
I have a relative who uses an IPAD (I think). What a PITA. It does not have better functionality than my Harmony.


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## Surge2018

J. Atkinson said:


> I welcome members sharing their favorites in the categories.


Completely disagree with the projector over $25K picks. Having owned both the JVC NX9 and the Sony laser/ARC-F, hands down the NX9 (even with the lamp). 
And Lumagen over MadVR any day.


----------

