# End of ReplayTV Electronic Programming Guide Service



## Reden

(I'll steal Glen's verbage from Planet Replay, but we've been working together)


Posted June 15 on
http://www.replaytv.com 
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/replaytv/ 

(You may or may not see the announcement immediately, seems like a cookie/caching issue)



> Quote:
> The ReplayTV Electronic Programming Guide (EPG) Service will be permanently discontinued on July 31, 2011. After this date, owners of ReplayTV DVR units will still be able to manually record analog TV programs, but will not have the benefit of access to the interactive program guide. Effective immediately, monthly billing for the ReplayTV service to remaining customers has been suspended.
> 
> 
> The industry conversion to HDTV is complete and ReplayTV DVRs are unable to take advantage of the wealth of HDTV programming. Please contact your service provider for current offerings.



Please note that this is an end only to the providing of program guide data. Authentication is still being provided, our Replays are not suddenly doorstops.


By using WiRNS and a third party guide source such as Schedules Direct or an XMLTV source, your Replay box will remain fully functional.


*UPDATE* I've set up a Wiki page to hold the current status: http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/ReplayTV 


Robert

(and Glenn)


----------



## jonwz

I worked for one of the companies that provided the dial access. I believe we gave the local access to them for free as it was off shift.


Was disappointing when they cancelled "myreplaytv", and now they are not even willing to keep most of the basic function working.


If somebody "bricked" your 6 year old color TV you'd be pretty disappointed.


Not nice having your PVR (or three in my case) turned into a dumb VCR. But somewhere, some corporation is saving a few dollars - yippee.


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## gatomon

Great quote: "ReplayTV DVRs are unable to take advantage of the wealth of HDTV programming"









This is no thanks to them. I record "HD" programs all the time (in SD of course, but the quality is fine).


At least they gave us 6 weeks to sort this out. Thankfully we have Wirns and Schedules Direct.


Since they are discontinuing monthly services I wonder if those machines will be elevated to "lifetime"

or simply turned into doorstops. If it's the former, those boxes will finally have a positive value.


-Chris


PS: I bet it's the dial-up service and all the "lifetime" users that cost them money. BTW, the dial-up

service is Earthlink...


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## jonwz

Earthlink was one of the dial up providers.


My old company (IBM.net, then ATTGlobal) provided fenced Internet RADIUS access (meaning the replaytv's could only go to a few TCP/IP destinations). I wasn't involved in the contract, but I'm pretty sure we gave the local nightly access for free as our marginal cost was virtually nil.


I think dial access will still be needed to allow time synchronization. Makes for a much shorter connection, but I'd be surprised if saving a few nightly connect minutes is the driver for killing the guide update.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20572669
> 
> 
> Great quote: I bet it's the dial-up service and all the "lifetime" users that cost them money. BTW, the dial-up
> 
> service is Earthlink...


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20572669
> 
> 
> Since they are discontinuing monthly services I wonder if those machines will be elevated to "lifetime"
> 
> or simply turned into doorstops.



I called them and asked them that, and all they could quote me was that they were no longer billing for the monthly units and that they're supposed to be able to manually record. They couldn't tell me how that was possible, only that they could read the press release...


Henry


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonwz* /forum/post/20572720
> 
> 
> My old company (IBM.net, then ATTGlobal) provided fenced Internet RADIUS access (meaning the replaytv's could only go to a few TCP/IP destinations). I wasn't involved in the contract, but I'm pretty sure we gave the local nightly access for free as our marginal cost was virtually nil.



I can see it being cheap, but free? Why would IBM give it to ReplayTV for free? It's not like at the time Replay bought other services from them.


I wonder what the dial-up business is like now... is "night" now the busy time due to all of the non-interactive use?


re: Lifetime

Lifetime of what?


It could be argued that these boxes have exceeded the "lifetime" of ReplayTV the company. Heck, by that definition we're talking 2-3 lifetimes










It could also be argued that the boxes will continue to function just with decreased usability (VCR type programming)


I've had a 12 year run with my box... no complaints, but I've pretty much moved to Media Center years ago. WiRNS will continue to provide full functionality for those with 4k/5k units.


Still sad.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20573198
> 
> 
> It could also be argued that the boxes will continue to function just with decreased usability (VCR type programming)



But, you certainly have to at least be able to set the clock, like a VCR! I guess you could install the clock set control panel, but I don't recall if that was for the latest firmware or not. I always thought that the 2Ks/3Ks were strange that after a power failure they didn't dial up to set the clock, so they likely didn't record correctly until the next net connect!


Henry


----------



## jonwz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20573198
> 
> 
> I can see it being cheap, but free? Why would IBM give it to ReplayTV for free? It's not like at the time Replay bought other services from them.
> 
> 
> Still sad.



Why not free for local night-time use, especially if the company paid for the 800 activation minutes? The banks of dial access ports were sitting there unused. The ReplayTV designers were smart to use industry standard dial authentication, so they could use any dial access provider (thus keeping the price to a minimum).


I don't see how these units will keep accurate time without nightly dial-up. So you'd still need authentication, and some access minutes.


It's possible in our world of corporate penny pinching that the dial access providers are trying to squeeze some money out of DNNA, and DNNA is doing everything they can to limit the access minutes, but I personally think DNNA has some small profit motive to provide less service to the remaining units.


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## gfmrtv

A screenshot of the actual message that's popping up on the Replay is attached.


I'm already using Wirns/SchedulesDirect to deliver over-the-air digital guide data, but many other questions that have been posed here and at Planet Replay remain unanswered on how things will work after this (or next) month as regards activation...


----------



## choli0090

I have 1 replay that was on monthly. It is now saying "Activated", along with the lifetime units



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20572669
> 
> 
> Since they are discontinuing monthly services I wonder if those machines will be elevated to "lifetime"
> 
> or simply turned into doorstops. If it's the former, those boxes will finally have a positive value.
> 
> 
> -Chris


----------



## runner10552




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20573604
> 
> 
> A screenshot of the actual message that's popping up on the Replay is attached.
> 
> 
> I'm already using Wirns/SchedulesDirect to deliver over-the-air digital guide data, but many other questions that have been posed here and at Planet Replay remain unanswered on how things will work after this (or next) month as regards activation...



Is this the right place to ask, how do I use Wirns and scheduleDirect so that I can continue to use my RTV? What do I need to do/get? Or please point me to the correct forum/thread.


I've got four 5K units, accumulated over time. currently subscribed to FiOS TV with just their STB

thanks!


----------



## hankhi

For those of us who paid for a "lifetime subscription" expecting just that, do they owe us a rebate or refund? sounds like lawsuit material to me.


----------



## srfrdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20571880
> 
> 
> (I'll steal Glen's verbage from Planet Replay, but we've been working together)
> 
> 
> Posted June 15 on
> http://www.replaytv.com
> http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/replaytv/
> 
> (You may or may not see the announcement immediately, seems like a cookie/caching issue)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that this is an end only to the providing of program guide data. Authentication is still being provided, our Replays are not suddenly doorstops.
> 
> 
> By using WiRNS and a third party guide source such as Schedules Direct or an XMLTV source, your Replay box will remain fully functional.
> 
> 
> Robert
> 
> (and Glenn)



wow







ive just got into this sharing stuff even though i had replays since 2003. i havent been able to get wirns to work yet. but that will have to change cause its fun. ive not got any notices yet on any of my replays dan


----------



## srfrdan

just net connected my 2 monthly units and they now say activated where it used to show an end date. also i just net connected a lifetime unit and it says activated where it said activated one time fee paid. i tried to net connect an un serviced unit and that ones not gonna work. wont activate. dan


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hankhi* /forum/post/20573839
> 
> 
> For those of us who paid for a "lifetime subscription" expecting just that, do they owe us a rebate or refund? sounds like lawsuit material to me.



I guess "lifetime" was of the company, not the unit. There has been at least two lifetimes.


----------



## runner10552

Not sure why my first post didn't go through. I was asking for a how-to on getting wires and a third party program guide service so that I can continue to use my RTVS


----------



## srfrdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *srfrdan* /forum/post/20574169
> 
> 
> just net connected my 2 monthly units and they now say activated where it used to show an end date. also i just net connected a lifetime unit and it says activated where it said activated one time fee paid. i tried to net connect an un serviced unit and that ones not gonna work. wont activate. dan



correction iwas able to get my 2 unactivated sets to say activated. so thats something. dan


----------



## Sonyad

Along with my one lifetime, I have a monthly that hasn't been used for months, but I wouldn't cancel the subscription. Time to let in connect to mothership and make use of whatever lifetime service it will have.


----------



## srfrdan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *runner10552* /forum/post/20574457
> 
> 
> Not sure why my first post didn't go through. I was asking for a how-to on getting wires and a third party program guide service so that I can continue to use my RTVS



search for wirns and download it. without that it will be very difficult. h. donzis is the expert and will answer any posted questions im sure.


----------



## speck9

Are there any free guide sources?


Not really interested in investing more money in my ReplayTV by paying Schedule's Direct.


Really sucks that they discontinued the service as I still regularly use my ReplayTV for some shows. So much for a lifetime box...


----------



## gfmrtv

The end-of-guide-service pop-up is going to drive me crazy if it keeps appearing every time you press the Replay or Channel guide buttons - and you can't dismiss it, the only choice is "remind me later". Later seems to be in an hour or so.


A month or so of this is going to get old...


----------



## jlv

I've been using WiRNS to serve the guide data for about 2 years now... and I've only been using it to take the channel guide from FIOS and remap it to 2/3 digits channels so that I could tune OTA subchannels.


But... I've been using the ReplayTV guide data as the source. Without it, it means we all lose the Replay Zones data, doesn't it? (I still use it)


----------



## sbwinter2

Does losing the tv listing also mean that we cannot control the cable box with the IR blaster? I can program the recordings through DVArchive, but if the replaytv will no longer be able to change the channels of the cable box because the guides aren't in "synch," then it is like going back to a VCR where you have to leave the cable on the correct channel ahead and can't program different channels without manually changing it.


What does manual record mean (of course it is analog)? Now I can manually record by choosing a channel from the TV listings and setting a time. If the listings are gone, then so are the channels, so how can you choose one that can send to a cable box and change it?


Of course, I can plug it back into the wall and get the few channels still provided through analog conversion over the coax. Is that what they mean by "analog?" And those TV listings are going too, so it would all be manual program and analog coax feed, like before they turned off analog TV.


WIRNS is something I may consider, but I am practically all mac, so having to flip back on a PC for that is a pain.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20574890
> 
> 
> But... I've been using the ReplayTV guide data as the source. Without it, it means we all lose the Replay Zones data, doesn't it? (I still use it)



This is a good question for Robert (Reden)! According to the SD spec, it looks like it provides the genre information in word format, which would have to be converted to a Replay Zone code . It's certainly worth considering if Robert says that it all still works this way...


Of course, it also means that the Replay Zone information in the RTV itself continues to stay in place...


Henry


----------



## RChobby

Does WiRNS have to be run on a PC 24/7 for it to work? In other words, do I have to keep a PC running all the time for this to work as a replacement for the ReplayTV guide?


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20574890
> 
> 
> I've been using WiRNS to serve the guide data for about 2 years now...
> 
> 
> ...Without it, it means we all lose the Replay Zones data, doesn't it?



To those folks using WiRNS and a 'Scraper':


Do 'Theme Channels' still work? (i.e. Keywords; I use actor's names to find movies)


I also use:
'Season Finale'
'Season Premiere
'Series Finale'
'Series Premiere'
and even the recently posted 'Ovit'

I've been waiting for a "Round Tuit" to get an old 'HDD Crashed Win2K PC" up and running again with WiRNS SOLELY to provide one source for editing the 'Channels Available' from Comcast from the hundreds the ReplayTV Guide shows to the hundred or so that I actually subscribe to.


I guess I now have some new incentive...


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575040
> 
> 
> To those folks using WiRNS and a 'Scraper':
> 
> 
> Do 'Theme Channels' still work? (i.e. Keywords; I use actor's names to find movies)



Since not many people use theme channels in the first place, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it depends on the scraper data. WiRNS supports gleening whatever cast information it can from the scraper data. So, if the scraper data has cast information, then your cast-based themes should still work the same...


Of course, title-based and description-based themes should continue to work the same as well...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2

I have shows that are on "permanent" record as in they record daily/weekly for always. When we lose the guides, do we also lose all of our recording programming that were set up with the tv guide in place?


For example, I record Saturday Night Live every week and keep a few episodes to watch when I want. Will this function go away as the unit will no longer know what SNL is or will is still record whatever is on channel 7 from 10:30-12? (assuming it will let me manually program channel 7 without a guide since it doesn't fill in any channels without a guide in place which is why you only get 99 for an analog feed and 1000s for a cable box one).


----------



## jlv

I'm pretty sure that if you start using WiRNS, you won't lose your guide data.


The only hitch I had when I switched to WiRNS was that I started mapping the OTA subchannels such that 7-1 became 71. This meant any Replay channels scheduled to record just from a specific channel had to be recreated (which doesn't lose any shows in the old Replay channel until you delete it). If you're just using a cable feed, then this wouldn't be a problem as you can keep all the channel assignments as they are now.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20574967
> 
> *Does losing the tv listing also mean that we cannot control the cable box with the IR blaster?*
> 
> 
> ...What does manual record mean (of course it is analog)? Now I can manually record by choosing a channel from the TV listings and setting a time. *If the listings are gone, then so are the channels, so how can you choose one that can send to a cable box and change it?*
> 
> 
> ...WIRNS is something I may consider, but I am practically all mac, so having to flip back on a PC for that is a pain.



In answer to your first question, AFAICT the IR Blaster codes are FIXED on the ReplayTV HDD, won't (shouldn't!) be deleted by DNNA *AND* can easily be augmented / modified as demonstrated by the most recent Pace 50X 'Hack'.










Regarding recordings, at first glance, I can see (at least) two possible scenarios:

*WiRNS and a 'Scraper':*
ReplayTV, as you know it now, should be '_pretty much_' the same.
AFAICT, from a recent post on PlanetReplay, if you're already running WiRNS, within MINUTES, you can subscribe to *Schedules Direct* @ $20/year and be up-and-running.

.
*WiRNS and a fixed 'Channels' file:*
This should provide you with the BARE channels from which you can create MANUAL recordings ala the VCR method (i.e. Every MON, 8:00PM-9:00PM, Channel 2).
HOW-TO create this file MANUALLY will probably be posted in the upcoming weeks. BUT, IMHO, even for someone unemployed, $20/year for *Schedules Direct* is not a big hardship, considering the alternative(s).


Time will tell.


The pool of 'Technical Developers' (i.e. folks capable of creating an alternate solution) is MUCH smaller nowadays. IMHO, WiRNS with *Schedules Direct* is already developed, in-place, and ready-to-go for Windows PC folks.










With some GOOGLE'ng, combined with sufficient technical ability, some folks MAY be able to achieve a FREE solution. But, again IMHO, for the majority, the solution in the previous paragraph is probably the best.


----------



## sbwinter2

So, if the cable box can still be controlled, I could just use DVArchive to program and those TV listings would update any channels that comcast made to the box (depending on DVA's source). Yes?


----------



## lnoland

So, does anyone know for sure that Wirns will continue to work once they shut things down? It's possible that DNNA is planning to force a software update to allow things to continue to function without activation/connection and the changed software might not have any provisions for any program guide, regardless of source. From most of what I had heard in the past I gathered that once the service stopped, the units would pretty much stop functioning and would mimic bricks. The fact that DNNA is saying that there will still be limited record functionality available seems to suggest that something would have to change to make that true.


I would hope that if they do change the software, they are aware of some of the grass-roots innovations like Wirns and would do their best to allow the protocols and resources that those applications use to remain intact, but if they are like most big corporations, the guys calling the shots may not have a clue, or may not care.


- Les


----------



## JJON2121




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575371
> 
> 
> So, if the cable box can still be controlled, I could just use DVArchive to program and those TV listings would update any channels that comcast made to the box (depending on DVA's source). Yes?



That is a good question, your awesomeness Gerry Duprey. How will this affect the ability to schedule shows in DVArchive?


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20573361
> 
> 
> But, *you certainly have to at least be able to set the clock*, like a VCR!



I '*Banged My Head Against the Wall*' for *QUITE* some time when I had the DNS settings on my 3 Lifetime ReplayTVs pointing at '_different_' IPs. IIRC, some had DNS1 pointing at my "Sometimes UP / Sometimes DOWN" WiRNS PC with DNS2 pointing at my Router, while others had DNS2, or DNS1 (with DNS2 '_blank_') pointed to my "Server" (Printer, Files, MP3s, DVArchive). It took me QUITE some time to correlate the "*Unable to Connect to Remote ReplayTV*" messages with a TIME problem.







Over the years, some of us make MANY changes to our setups, based on reading various posts on various forums; as long as everything is '_still_' working when you change something, you don't think anything about it; MONTHS / YEARS later, you really cannot remember WHAT you did WHERE - so, you have to START OVER and reconfigure EVERYTHING.


AFAIR, (R)emember, although WiRNS can '_replace / compliment/ enhance_' MANY DNNA functions (i.e. FILTER available channels; MAP available channels, etc...) and '_prevent_' software updates (i.e. a 55xx can act like a 5xxx), eventually it has to '_connect_' to verify a unit's Lifetime, or Monthly-Paid-Up subscription (Time will tell how ReplayTV units, *ESPECIALLY* MONTHLYs, react to this '_change_' ).


For a WiRNS User:

How is the CLOCK currently updated?

- DNNA or WiRNS?









.
Without a DNNA presence (after July 31, 2011), what (do you think / KNOW







) folks will see when they press the ZONES button on their remotes?

.
Is there a separate CHANNELS file in WiRNS that folks could create today and save to allow them to operate their ReplayTV like a '_dumb_' VCR (i.e. MANUAL Record) after July 31 WITHOUT using a 'Scraper'?

Thanks!


----------



## Reden

WiRNS with Schedules Direct should be very close to what Replay offered. We both purchased the data from Tribune Media Services. As previously noted, the SD data does include things that can be used to generate zones if it doesn't do it already. (I don't use WiRNS, so I don't know)


In addition to Schedules Direct, WiRNS offers a web scraper and can process data in XMLTV format, often from other web scrapers.


For those that don't know, web scrapers used to be the way MythTV and other applications got guide data. It simulates a web user clicking each link on a page to get the show details. It's slow, high maintenance (web site design changes, and sometimes web site actively try and block scrapers due to the high load they place on their servers), and honestly the data can be hit and miss.


Schedules Direct (a non-profit, by Open Source project leaders for Open Source projects) offers a fully licensed high quality data feed that is better than anyone can get with a scraper. We also provide financial support to OSS projects. Those of us who've been dealing with the data for years, never want to go back to a scraper!


Robert


Disclaimer... I'm a founding board member of Schedules Direct, leader of XMLTV.ORG, and a ReplayTV user (2k,3k) since 1998.










BTW.. While one of my Replays is still active, it's not used very often. My primary PVR for the past 4 years has been a Vista Media Center. Works great.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575137
> 
> 
> I have shows that are on "permanent" record as in they record daily/weekly for always. When we lose the guides, do we also lose all of our recording programming that were set up with the tv guide in place?
> 
> 
> For example, I record Saturday Night Live every week and keep a few episodes to watch when I want. Will this function go away as the unit will no longer know what SNL is or will is still record whatever is on channel 7 from 10:30-12? (assuming it will let me manually program channel 7 without a guide since it doesn't fill in any channels without a guide in place which is why you only get 99 for an analog feed and 1000s for a cable box one).



Repeat recordings use the guide data, period. If there's no guide data, then they can't record. Manual and one-time recordings record specific channels at specific times, so that's what will continue to work...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJON2121* /forum/post/20575445
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575371
> 
> 
> So, if the cable box can still be controlled, I could just use DVArchive to program and those TV listings would update any channels that comcast made to the box (depending on DVA's source). Yes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a good question, your awesomeness Gerry Duprey. How will this affect the ability to schedule shows in DVArchive?
Click to expand...


DVArchive only use RTV-style guide data. However, it can get RTV-style guide data from WiRNS. So, when DNNA stops deliverying guide data, then DVArchive will only be able to get guide data from some other place, such as WiRNS, by using the "Use Web Proxy?" configuration...


Henry


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20575374
> 
> 
> So, does anyone know for sure that Wirns will continue to work once they shut things down? It's possible that DNNA is planning to force a software update to allow things to continue to function without activation/connection and the changed software might not have any provisions for any program guide, regardless of source.



To be honest, I've worked on legacy projects and doubt DNNA has anyone capable of making any code changes to the Replay software, even if they wanted to.


I know that DNNA is aware of WiRNS and I suspect they expect WiRNS and manual records (mentioned in the release) to keep working. I'm trying to get some answers through contacts I have and will let everyone know if I hear anything.


BTW.. I tried manual recording ages ago (before before/after settings) ... it sucked. Imagine your Replay guide full of recordings all with a description of "Manual Record from Channel 2 on 6/6/2010 at 6pm". Manual Recording would only be useful for a security camera. Everyone needs WiRNS to have a useful device.


Robert


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575497
> 
> 
> For a WiRNS User:
> 
> How is the CLOCK currently updated?
> 
> - DNNA or WiRNS?



WiRNS sends the time set request on to DNNA. It does not support setting the clock...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575497



Without a DNNA presence (after July 31, 2011), what (do you think / KNOW







) folks will see when they press the ZONES button on their remotes?

Unless DNNA actually clears the zones, they should stick around. And, you can use WiRNS NoReplayZones plug in to prevent them being changed...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575497



Is there a separate CHANNELS file in WiRNS that folks could create today and save to allow them to operate their ReplayTV like a '_dumb_' VCR (i.e. MANUAL Record) after July 31 WITHOUT using a 'Scraper'?

There isn't anything like that, but I suppose it should be simple enough to make an XML channel lineup to at least have the channels show up in WiRNS and the RTV. Actually, I'm not sure how the RTV operates for manual recordings without guide data. I suppose it just allows you to enter channel numbers, although I don't know how it knows to tune to VHF/UHF channels or cable channels without lineup information...


Henry


----------



## Reden

BTW... one thing for everyone to keep in mind is the WiRNS team and other folks here are pretty smart. They *WILL* come up with a working solution no matter happens.


No need to panic. (except if you haven't found these forums and don't know about WiRNS, which is not you!)


Robert


----------



## sbwinter2

You cannot enter channel numbers in a manual recording right now. You scroll though a list of channels offered by the provider you chose, so if that ability to choose a provider goes, then there will be no channels. Even under analog coax, you have to choose a provider, including OTA, to get channels in a scrollable list.


While there are PCs I can turn on/flip over to as needed, I use all Mac now, so WIRNS is not that convenient. After looking at the installation of it though, it looks like you have to change all of the network info to point to WIRNS to download the tv listing. But after that is done, don't you have to change it back to your network so the units can speak to each other again? I don't plan on leaving a PC on, so how do tv listings get updated without me having to switch on a PC and change of the networking info on three replays daily?


----------



## barmar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575565
> 
> 
> I suppose it just allows you to enter channel numbers, although I don't know how it knows to tune to VHF/UHF channels or cable channels without lineup information...



When you configure input settings, you tell it whether a particular input is connected to an antenna, cable, or a cable box.


Although antenna presumably hasn't worked since the OTA digital changeover last year. You have to use a digital converter, and control it like a cable box.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20575576
> 
> 
> BTW... one thing for everyone to keep in mind is the WiRNS team and other folks here are pretty smart. They *WILL* come up with a working solution no matter happens.
> 
> 
> No need to panic. (except if you haven't found these forums and don't know about WiRNS, which is not you!)
> 
> 
> Robert



It would be great if there was a Mac version too.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20575555
> 
> 
> To be honest, I've worked on legacy projects and doubt DNNA has anyone capable of making any code changes to the Replay software, even if they wanted to.
> 
> 
> I know that DNNA is aware of WiRNS and I suspect they expect WiRNS and manual records (mentioned in the release) to keep working. I'm trying to get some answers through contacts I have and will let everyone know if I hear anything.



Well, they had to figure out enough to cobble up the Service Activation notification!










However, WiRNS can only provide the guide data, it can't keep the units activated. It will still take DNNA servers running to keep the units working. For example, what if you had to replace a hard drive and use an image file? You have to net connect to get the RTV operating again...


So, I have to wonder that if DNNA couldn't keep guide data operational (was their TMS contract up and it was going to be too expensive versus the income they receive from monthly subscriptions), then not only how can they, but how long can they be expected to keep their activation server operational? When I called them today, I asked them how long, and they simply said that the release said that you'd be able to record manually, it didn't say for how long...


It certainly would be very worthwhile if they would come up with some way to allow using WiRNS operate the RTVs since there is no longer any subscription. But, I don't know how much trouble they'd be willing to go to. Obviously this latest activation thing was a real pain for them, but they really had no choice (I suppose they didn't have to go to the trouble of notifying you on the RTV so frequently). They don't have much incentive to figure out to make all the model RTVs operate without an activation server...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20575555
> 
> 
> BTW.. I tried manual recording ages ago (before before/after settings) ... it sucked. Imagine your Replay guide full of recordings all with a description of "Manual Record from Channel 2 on 6/6/2010 at 6pm". Manual Recording would only be useful for a security camera. Everyone needs WiRNS to have a useful device.



That's why you can name/rename the manual recordings. You can rename both the recording channel itself and the individual show descriptions. I use it frequently because I find it easier to simply record NBC on Thursdays from 7:00 - 10:00 instead of worrying about if they are going to have back-to-back episodes of the same show title which requires me to create multiple recording schedules...


Henry


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575371
> 
> 
> So, if the cable box can still be controlled, *I could just use DVArchive to program and those TV listings would update any channels that comcast made to the box (depending on DVA's source). Yes?*





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JJON2121* /forum/post/20575445
> 
> *That is a good question*, your awesomeness Gerry Duprey. How will this affect the ability to schedule shows in DVArchive?



AFAIK, *DVArchive* '_simulates_' a ReplayTV. Thus, when the DNNA Replay Guide data stops, DVArchive (where it needs current DNNA Replay Guide data) stops.







WiRNS, on the other hand, is able to get its ReplayTV Guide Data elsewhere.









*JJON2121* ,


This question should probably be posted on Gerry's DVArchive Forum, since he has been so '_inactive_' EVERYWHERE for quite some time.









*ALREADY DONE:* *How to get guide data when DNNA goes away next month* 
*________________________________________*


Amazing how many NEW and/or "*Joined Years Ago*" posters decided to make their *FIRST* post on this topic (on the various ReplayTV-related forums) TODAY!










As has already been stated elsewhere, *WiRNS* and *Schedules Direct* will soon become VERY popular.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20575599
> 
> 
> When you configure input settings, you tell it whether a particular input is connected to an antenna, cable, or a cable box.
> 
> 
> Although antenna presumably hasn't worked since the OTA digital changeover last year. You have to use a digital converter, and control it like a cable box.



Right, but some have indicated that those will go away too, so you can't choose a list of channels/provider. Someone earlier, though, said that those are in the HD, so that you can choose a provider, but the listing will just be empty.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575588
> 
> 
> You cannot enter channel numbers in a manual recording right now. You scroll though a list of channels offered by the provider you chose, so if that ability to choose a provider goes, then there will be no channels. Even under analog coax, you have to choose a provider, including OTA, to get channels in a scrollable list.



Actually, you can enter channel numbers instead of scrolling through the list of channels. And, when there is no channel information, then it simply lists channel numbers, like 0003...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575588
> 
> 
> While there are PCs I can turn on/flip over to as needed, I use all Mac now, so WIRNS is not that convenient. After looking at the installation of it though, it looks like you have to change all of the network info to point to WIRNS to download the tv listing. But after that is done, don't you have to change it back to your network so the units can speak to each other again? I don't plan on leaving a PC on, so how do tv listings get updated without me having to switch on a PC and change of the networking info on three replays daily?



You don't change the RTV's network setting which effects network communications, so the units still network normally...


As far as the PC being on, it only needs to be on when the RTVs attempt to net connect, and, even then, it doesn't have to be every day since the RTV stores two weeks of guide data. WiRNS can control the RTV net connect time, so you can just set a time and the PC will be on...


Henry


----------



## barmar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20574780
> 
> 
> The end-of-guide-service pop-up is going to drive me crazy if it keeps appearing every time you press the Replay or Channel guide buttons - and you can't dismiss it, the only choice is "remind me later". Later seems to be in an hour or so.
> 
> 
> A month or so of this is going to get old...



I clicked "Exit" on that pop-up a few hours ago, and haven't seen it since. But I won't be surprised if it comes back periodically, to remind people who wait until the last minute to find alternate solutions.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20575599
> 
> 
> When you configure input settings, you tell it whether a particular input is connected to an antenna, cable, or a cable box.
> 
> 
> Although antenna presumably hasn't worked since the OTA digital changeover last year. You have to use a digital converter, and control it like a cable box.



If you have no guide data, then you can't select inputs in the first place. Maybe what you can do is to at least configure each input for what's connected so it has some idea. Although, I'm not sure how you would designate channel numbers, much less know what channel numbers are associated with which input. So, for example, if you currently have a setup using both the RF and Video Input, without channel lineup information, how would it know how many channels are associated with the RF input and how many channels are associated with the Video input? Currently, it uses the channel lineup and then rounds to some multiple of 100. But, it has to know how many channels there are in order to decide which channel numbers go with which input...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575622
> 
> 
> Actually, you can enter channel numbers instead of scrolling through the list of channels. And, when there is no channel information, then it simply lists channel numbers, like 0003...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't change the RTV's network setting which effects network communications, so the units still network normally...
> 
> 
> As far as the PC being on, it only needs to be on when the RTVs attempt to net connect, and, even then, it doesn't have to be every day since the RTV stores two weeks of guide data. WiRNS can control the RTV net connect time, so you can just set a time and the PC will be on...
> 
> 
> Henry



I can't enter numbers now on a manual record, so maybe that is only capable without a provider.


I guess I need to read the instructions on WIRNS again. It said you have to change the IP to static (which is never good for a replay on a WRT54G) and the DNS. In order for the units to work on my network, I need the IP and DNS to be dynamic.


(and thanks!)


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575610
> 
> 
> AFAIK, *DVArchive* '_simulates_' a ReplayTV. Thus, when the DNNA Replay Guide data stops, DVArchive (where it needs current DNNA Replay Guide data) stops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WiRNS, on the other hand, is able to get its ReplayTV Guide Data elsewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *JJON2121* ,
> 
> 
> This question should probably be posted on Gerry's DVArchive Forum, since he has been so '_inactive_' EVERYWHERE for quite some time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ALREADY DONE:* *How to get guide data when DNNA goes away next month*
> *________________________________________*
> 
> 
> Amazing how many NEW and/or "*Joined Years Ago*" posters decided to make their *FIRST* post on this topic (on the various ReplayTV-related forums) TODAY!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As has already been stated elsewhere, *WiRNS* and *Schedules Direct* will soon become VERY popular.



I already answered this here . DVA can get its guide data from WiRNS just as easily as the RTVs themselves can...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575634
> 
> 
> I can't enter numbers now on a manual record, so maybe that is only capable without a provider.



That's really strange! If I want to set a manual recording to record on channel 12, I simply enter 12, I don't use the scroll window at all (or rarely)...


I guess I need to read the instructions on WIRNS again. It said you have to change the IP to static (which is never good for a replay on a WRT54G) and the DNS. In order for the units to work on my network, I need the IP and DNS to be dynamic.[/quote]


I'm not sure how you would even use a dynamic DNS. Anyway, you simply change the RTV's DNS address to be the WiRNS IP, and you let the WiRNS computer get the network's DNS address...


The problem is that in order to make the RTVs work with WiRNS, you have to change the RTV's DNS address(es). Now, you can use DHCP to configure the DNS address, but that typcially sets the DNS address for every DHCP user, which you wouldn't want (although, WiRNS could DNS for everything if this was what you had to do). So, the only way to set a fixed DNS address is to configure a fixed IP address (which is pretty much true for every network device). And, if you want to be able to use WiRNS more advanced features, it needs to be able to contact the RTV units, so it needs to know their fixed IP addresses...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2

"I'm not sure how you would even use a dynamic DNS. Anyway, you simply change the RTV's DNS address to be the WiRNS IP, and you let the WiRNS computer get the network's DNS address..."


What I mean by dynamic DNS is that they are pulled from the router vs manually setting them if I set a static IP.


"The problem is that in order to make the RTVs work with WiRNS, you have to change the RTV's DNS address(es). Now, you can use DHCP to configure the DNS address, but that typcially sets the DNS address for every DHCP user, which you wouldn't want (although, WiRNS could DNS for everything if this was what you had to do). So, the only way to set a fixed DNS address is to configure a fixed IP address (which is pretty much true for every network device). And, if you want to be able to use WiRNS more advanced features, it needs to be able to contact the RTV units, so it needs to know their fixed IP addresses..."


I already know from experience that I cannot leave the IPs as static on replays because of the bug (have tried a couple times over the years due to forgetting). That bug isn't going away, so the IPs need to be dynamic to function correctly. Since you can't be dynamic IP and fixed DNS, how do other owners deal with this. Do I have to get a whole new router that pushes static IPS (reservations) vs the replays pulling them?


Oh wait - so WIRNS gets the same DNS that the router would send? So the problem is the inability to have a static IP on a replay.


I would be willing to chip in to DNNA to prevent this whole thing from happening since this is such a mess. If I had millions, I would have bought them out years ago just to keep it going since I LOVE my replays.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575634
> 
> 
> ...*It said you have to change the IP to static (which is never good for a replay on a WRT54G) and the DNS*. In order for the units to work on my network, I need the IP and DNS to be dynamic...



Where did you read this (i.e. DYNAMIC is better than STATIC on a WRT54G)?










Are you aware of the "*Dual IP BUG*"?

(It's explained in the FAQ / STICKY.)


AFAIK, STATIC, or at least MAC-to-IP-MAPPED (in your router), is *MUCH* preferred in the ReplayTV community.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575681
> 
> 
> Where did you read this (i.e. DYNAMIC is better than STATIC on a WRT54G)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you aware of the "*Dual IP BUG*"?
> 
> (It's explained in the FAQ / STICKY.)



That is it. That is why you can't set the replays as static with a dynamic environment on a router that does not have reservations to push.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575681
> 
> 
> AFAIK, STATIC, or at least MAC-to-IP-MAPPED (in your router), is *MUCH* preferred in the ReplayTV community.



I am not familiar with this at all. My router cannot do much of anything other than turn on or off DHCP. WRT54G was a huge step up from Dlink which didn't work with the units almost at all in terms of connecting to the mothership (long story).


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575674
> 
> 
> "I'm not sure how you would even use a dynamic DNS. Anyway, you simply change the RTV's DNS address to be the WiRNS IP, and you let the WiRNS computer get the network's DNS address..."
> 
> 
> What I mean by dynamic DNS is that they are pulled from the router vs manually setting them if I set a static IP.



Well, typcially your router has a fixed IP address (since it is also typcially the gateway) so the DNS address really isn't dynamic, it's typcially the router's IP address...


However, since only the WiRNS PC has to deal with this, it's only one place. All of the RTVs use the WiRNS IP address, and only the WiRNS PC has to have the correct DNS address...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575674
> 
> 
> "The problem is that in order to make the RTVs work with WiRNS, you have to change the RTV's DNS address(es). Now, you can use DHCP to configure the DNS address, but that typcially sets the DNS address for every DHCP user, which you wouldn't want (although, WiRNS could DNS for everything if this was what you had to do). So, the only way to set a fixed DNS address is to configure a fixed IP address (which is pretty much true for every network device). And, if you want to be able to use WiRNS more advanced features, it needs to be able to contact the RTV units, so it needs to know their fixed IP addresses..."
> 
> 
> I already know from experience that I cannot leave the IPs as static on replays because of the bug (have tried a couple times over the years due to forgetting). That bug isn't going away, so the IPs need to be dynamic to function correctly. Since you can't be dynamic IP and fixed DNS, how do other owners deal with this. Do I have to get a whole new router that pushes static IPS (reservations) vs the replays pulling them?
> 
> 
> Oh wait - so WIRNS gets the same DNS that the router would send? So the problem is the inability to have a static IP on a replay.
> 
> 
> I would be willing to chip in to DNNA to prevent this whole thing from happening since this is such a mess. If I had millions, I would have bought them out years ago just to keep it going since I LOVE my replays.



Yeah, the only answer is to figure out some way to have DHCP reservations work. Many people simply turn off the DHCP server in their router and simply run a free software DHCP server on a computer on their network. Obviously the WiRNS computer would be an excelent place to run a software DHCP server!


Also, I have to say that most modern routers support DHCP reservations. Heck, even modern DSL modem/routers support DHCP reservations! So, if you have an 802.11n wireless router, then it likely supports DHCP reservations. So, with modern routers, the problem has pretty much gone away...


Henry


----------



## sslund

I'll try to save most of my whining about this, but does anyone have any tips about how to stop my dh's whining? In our family, I'm what passes for the techie person & he's demanding that I find a way to fix this. Now. Yikes -- that's all I've been hearing for the past couple of hours since he saw the pop-up notification.


Perhaps the most important question I have is where I can get WiRNS for dummies help? Throughout the years, I think I've tried twice to get WiRNS to work for me but wasn't successful either time, even with help from a couple of fourms. Actually, I think folks got sick of the problems I was running into.


We're a household of five RTVs, so this is kind of a biggie here. I'm mostly using our Moxi HD DVRs & Mates for everyday stuff, but I do still use the RTVs & DVA to record stuff like my quilting shows & documentaries & movies that I want to keep since that's a feature that's lacking from the Moxis. My dh, OTOH, uses our RTVs heavily . . . he swears that fast-forwarding through baseball games & the like is far superior on the RTVs.


Ugh -- I'm really not happy about this revolting development.


Hey -- maybe this is an opportunity for some entrepreneurial WiRNS gurus to earn some cash by hiring their expertise out to WiRNS setup challenged folks like me . . .


Saundra


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sslund* /forum/post/20575693
> 
> 
> I'll try to save most of my whining about this, but does anyone have any tips about how to stop my dh's whining? In our family, I'm what passes for the techie person & he's demanding that I find a way to fix this. Now. Yikes -- that's all I've been hearing for the past couple of hours since he saw the pop-up notification.
> 
> 
> Perhaps the most important question I have is where I can get WiRNS for dummies help? Throughout the years, I think I've tried twice to get WiRNS to work for me but wasn't successful either time, even with help from a couple of fourms. Actually, I think folks got sick of the problems I was running into.
> 
> 
> We're a household of five RTVs, so this is kind of a biggie here. I'm mostly using our Moxi HD DVRs & Mates for everyday stuff, but I do still use the RTVs & DVA to record stuff like my quilting shows & documentaries & movies that I want to keep since that's a feature that's lacking from the Moxis. My dh, OTOH, uses our RTVs heavily . . . he swears that fast-forwarding through baseball games & the like is far superior on the RTVs.
> 
> 
> Ugh -- I'm really not happy about this revolting development.
> 
> 
> Hey -- maybe this is an opportunity for some entrepreneurial WiRNS gurus to earn some cash by hiring their expertise out to WiRNS setup challenged folks like me . . .
> 
> 
> Saundra



You'll probably get a lot of help by watching this thread...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2

It all requires spending money. My router has been very reliable and I have nothing running faster than G, so upgrading just to get reservations is a major financial expense.


And I have no interest in firing up the old (not so old) PC on a regular basis again since it sucked a lot of electricity that was very expensive (plus the cost of yet another UPS for that computer). So, I don't want a WIRNS machine or server. I have bootcamp/fusion on one Mac, but can WIRNS be managed well enough from that?


If DVA gets the listings from WIRNS, then I may not have to go through the trouble.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575699
> 
> 
> It all requires spending money. My router has been very reliable and I have nothing running faster than G, so upgrading just to get reservations is a major financial expense.
> 
> 
> And I have no interest in firing up the old (not so old) PC on a regular basis again since it sucked a lot of electricity that was very expensive (plus the cost of yet another UPS for that computer). So, I don't want a WIRNS machine or server. I have bootcamp/fusion on one Mac, but can WIRNS be managed well enough from that?



I hear what you're saying, but it's just basically the way it works. I just helped my daughter move apartments, and she didn't get a wireless device from her new ISP, so I setup her old G wireless router, which is a real piece of crap. However, it worked well enough and I was happy that I didn't have to go out and get something else!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575699
> 
> 
> If DVA gets the listings from WIRNS, then I may not have to go through the trouble.



I'm not sure how that helps. The RTVs can't get guide data from DVA, so having DVA have the listing information will only allow DVA to "look" nicer...


There is another way, however, to get your RTVs to get guide data from WiRNS without reconfiguring each RTV's network settings, and that is to change the hosts file on your router, if it supports it. I don't know if that helps at all, but as long as you can have your RTVs "go to" WiRNS for their DNNA connections, that's all you have to accomplish. But, then you have to have WiRNS use a different DNS address so that it can actually get to DNNA...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> I'm not sure how that helps. The RTVs can't get guide data from DVA, so having DVA have the listing information will only allow DVA to "look" nicer...



But you can program replays from DVA just like programing a replay itself. If the guide is there and DVA functions the same way, then I can program everything from there and it will be pushed to the replay like it is now, which can change the channels of the cable box if the ir blaster codes are in the hard drive as a previous poster suggested.


----------



## RChobby

Schedules direct seems to be "down" for new accounts?


----------



## sslund




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575695
> 
> 
> You'll probably get a lot of help by watching this thread...



Thanks, Henry -- will do. On the plus side, there will hopefully be lots of new folks so I won't be the only new person struggling


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575642
> 
> 
> I already answered this here . *DVA can get its guide data from WiRNS just as easily as the RTVs themselves can*...



Questions, and their replies, are flying by "Fast-and-Furious". So, I trust that you're correct.










But, AFAIR, I do not recall the "*Use Web Proxy?*" option - I will look into it.


Thanks!










P.S. My ISP, Comcast, went down for SEVERAL minutes - confusing me and adding to the delay in my reply.


----------



## RChobby

Schedules direct is back "UP" for new accounts.

Thanks for the help, everyone!


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575699
> 
> *It all requires spending money*. My router has been very reliable and I have nothing running faster than G, so upgrading just to get reservations is a major financial expense...


*GOOGLE:*
*DD-WRT*

and
*TOMATO*

You can UPGRADE the features of your WRT54G (depending on the version) for FREE!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575699
> 
> 
> ...And *I have no interest in firing up the old (not so old) PC on a regular basis again since it sucked a lot of electricity that was very expensive* (plus the cost of yet another UPS for that computer). So, I don't want a WIRNS machine or server...



How about a second hand laptop from a relative, friend, CraigsList?


IMHO, at this point in time, from everything I've read, using WiRNS is inevitable.

*THANK YOU Glenn, Ryan and Henry!*











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575699
> 
> 
> ...*If DVA gets the listings from WIRNS, then I may not have to go through the trouble*.



Yep!


----------



## choli0090

Yes & No. The computer needs to be on when the replay decides it wants to do a connection to update the channel guide. I say no because there is usually 14 days worth of guide data (mind you that something could change in the guide from one day to the next)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20575036
> 
> 
> Does WiRNS have to be run on a PC 24/7 for it to work? In other words, do I have to keep a PC running all the time for this to work as a replacement for the ReplayTV guide?


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20575555
> 
> 
> ...*I tried manual recording ages ago (before before/after settings) ... it sucked. Imagine your Replay guide full of recordings all with a description of "Manual Record from Channel 2 on 6/6/2010 at 6pm"*. Manual Recording would only be useful for a security camera. *Everyone needs WiRNS to have a useful device*.


*+1*


----------



## lnoland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575604
> 
> 
> Well, they had to figure out enough to cobble up the Service Activation notification!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . .
> 
> It certainly would be very worthwhile if they would come up with some way to allow using WiRNS operate the RTVs since there is no longer any subscription. But, I don't know how much trouble they'd be willing to go to. Obviously this latest activation thing was a real pain for them, but they really had no choice (I suppose they didn't have to go to the trouble of notifying you on the RTV so frequently). They don't have much incentive to figure out to make all the model RTVs operate without an activation server...



Although I'm sure it is unlikely, I think the most graceful, goodwill-building exit DNNA could make from ReplayTV would be if they open-sourced the software and made available whatever development-, support- and deployment- tools they have and just let the community tear into it and figure out ways of extending the life of the remaining boxes until hardware attrition and waning interest brings things to a satisfying end. As is all too typical, they would likely resist any such suggestion on the basis of "they paid good money for those rights so why should they just give them up" (and gee, just any minute they might find a new business model which will make them want to jump right back in, or they will find someone who wants to pay big money for the rights to a dead product,or . . .), but clearly, the main reason they bought into it was to milk the subscription service as long as they could, and that surely has met their expectations. If they are ready to call it a day, clinging to their rights to software they are never going to use or sell, is pointless, but giving it away to the community could buy them a lot of goodwill. Admittedly, that goodwill might not have that much value for them as I don't know, realistically, how great a potential for crossover business to other products they could expect under even the most ideal conditions. Even if the value of that goodwill is peanuts, though, unless there is some pretty innovative tech in that software which they could (and would) apply to other projects or sell outright, the value of the ReplayTV software is most likely zero except in the context of an active ReplayTV business which they (and their predecessors) have been slowly abandoning for years. They might as well opt for peanuts.










- Les


----------



## pshovest

I'm not so sure about this. I've had several instances where the DVA schedule guide listed a show that did not yet appear on the Replay schedule giude. I was not able to schedule a recording thru DVA until the show appeared in BOTH DVA and the Replay program guides. I get a schedule conflict error when this occurs, but there is no conflict.


Paul






> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575720
> 
> 
> But you can program replays from DVA just like programing a replay itself. If the guide is there and DVA functions the same way, then I can program everything from there and it will be pushed to the replay like it is now, which can change the channels of the cable box if the ir blaster codes are in the hard drive as a previous poster suggested.


----------



## aeblank

Just a couple comments on things I've seen in this thread.


DVA gets its guide data from the same place the replays do. In NO WAY does DVA "push" its guide data into the replay (in the situation where DVA has data and the replays do not).


Regarding the DHCP bug... With any router I've dealt with, I haven't had issues with 1) let the Replay get a DHCP'd address. 2) change the Replay to manual settings identical to what was DHCP'd, except change both DNSs to the WiRNS box. When the replay stupidly asks for an IP address, it will get the one the router originally gave to it, however since the OS has the manual settings (with the same IP address, mind you) it works. I happen to have a Cisco which lets me give different devices different settings (DNS included). Way cool. Changing to a data card and a cradlepoint router if it ever quits being backordered--jury is still out on that one.


Regarding WiRNS and the electricity it takes, etc. First, come on, turn on a computer for overnight every few days costs too much money? In that case the replays cost too much too. Do you eat only bread and water?







That aside, how about a virtual XP box on your mac. If the mac is on all the time then it'll take a fraction of the CPU to run an almost-idle virtualized XP with WiRNS on it. If not, the mac needs to be turned on overnight every few days, just like a PC would.


I have often wondered about an off-site WiRNS server. Then I could run one computer for multiple family members or someone here could run one for the setup-challenged people or some such. Seems possible, but I don't have a fixed IP, so it would be pretty difficult. I can't put in a dynamic DNS name for my DNS settings. =) The place it would be useful for me is my grandma's place. My parents stay there a month a year, there isn't a desktop around and maintaining wirns on it would suck anyway just like it would on the laptop they bring. Not sure what I'm going to do there.....


----------



## gfmrtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pshovest* /forum/post/20576095
> 
> 
> I've had several instances where the DVA schedule guide listed a show that did not yet appear on the Replay schedule giude. I was not able to schedule a recording thru DVA until the show appeared in BOTH DVA and the Replay program guides.



The Replay guide update process was once explained in one of the forums (can't find it now). The Replay apparently gets the new guide data and goes through a "combine" process that adds the new days and channels and updates only the next day. If something changes three days out, the Replay won't reflect that until the day before (DVA shows the update immediately).


One way around this is to "Clear" the program guide on the Replay and force it to re-populate the guide with current data (and there will probably be a bunch of "not a valid channel" messages to clear out afterward).


----------



## pshovest

Good information on update process. Clearing the program guide may be a fix, but my post was intended to show that the DVA guide is not a workable substitute for the Replay guide.....you need program guide info on the Replay in order to schdule thru DVA.


Paul



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20576199
> 
> 
> The Replay guide update process was once explained in one of the forums (can't find it now). The Replay apparently gets the new guide data and goes through a "combine" process that adds the new days and channels and updates only the next day. If something changes three days out, the Replay won't reflect that until the day before (DVA shows the update immediately).
> 
> 
> One way around this is to "Clear" the program guide on the Replay and force it to re-populate the guide with current data (and there will probably be a bunch of "not a valid channel" messages to clear out afterward).


----------



## pshovest

If guide info comes from the same place, it sure seems odd that I can have several days where the DVA and replay guide are different.

I've only noticed this problem on one network ...Centric TV (Comcast).

The Replay guide doesn't agree with the DVA guide until a day or so before show is scheduled.


Paul



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aeblank* /forum/post/20576194
> 
> 
> .........DVA gets its guide data from the same place the replays do. In NO WAY does DVA "push" its guide data into the replay (in the situation where DVA has data and the replays do not)......


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aeblank* /forum/post/20576194
> 
> 
> Regarding the DHCP bug... With any router I've dealt with, I haven't had issues with 1) let the Replay get a DHCP'd address. 2) change the Replay to manual settings identical to what was DHCP'd, except change both DNSs to the WiRNS box. When the replay stupidly asks for an IP address, it will get the one the router originally gave to it, however since the OS has the manual settings (with the same IP address, mind you) it works.
> 
> 
> Regarding WiRNS and the electricity it takes, etc. First, come on, turn on a computer for overnight every few days costs too much money? In that case the replays cost too much too. Do you eat only bread and water?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That aside, how about a virtual XP box on your mac. If the mac is on all the time then it'll take a fraction of the CPU to run an almost-idle virtualized XP with WiRNS on it. If not, the mac needs to be turned on overnight every few days, just like a PC would.



The DHCP bug is that after setting the IP that was assigned dynamically as static, it doesn't realize it as that IP and gets a different one when it stupidly asks again. So just putting the one in place that it just got does not eliminate the problem that it will eventually get another one assigned. You can even see this with normal dynamic behavior. My computers, if they remain active on the network, get their IP leases renewed over and over, so they rarely change IPs. The replays change IPs every few days although they are constantly renewing too. That's the bug - it won't get the same one.


I own two powerbooks, two macbooks, an IMAC with Bootcamp, my old XP box and a really old XP laptop. The XP box was so loud and so expensive to run that I was happy to finally move to a dual boot Mac. I was hoping one of the Macs could serve as WIRNS with the XP in virtual mode. Can that work?


I also don't want to just load tv guides once every two weeks. If you haven't noticed, there are mistakes all of the time - my cable box one is different than the replay which is different than Titan TV and the networks website (I have even had to call Tribune Media to get them to fix a few). They sometimes catch up/fix the mistakes (sometimes), but you have to run the guide practically daily to get them to fix it all.


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20575886
> 
> 
> I think the most graceful, goodwill-building exit DNNA could make from ReplayTV would be if they open-sourced the software and made available whatever development-, support- and deployment- tools they have and just let the community tear into it



Maybe it's not clear who owns the IP to give it away. ReplayTV was cut up into many pieces and thrown around long ago.


IIRC, DNNA sold most of their ReplayTV IP to DirectTV, but continued to serve data to existing costumers. DirectTV mostly wanted the patents, but who knows who owns the code. Heck, DNNA may own the code and DirectTV the patents to use them!


Robert


----------



## sbwinter2

Another new thing that sux. They have completely taken down all the support info on their site. Yesterday you could still get there through "forgot password," but today it transfers you to RIO and you can't log in at all (the password they send doesn't work). (Although I just did find another way to those pages, for now, but knowledge base is gone.)


I think they are not planning on supporting anything anymore, including repairs, tech support, and updating the units on their network for things other than the guide, like the clock.


If we switch to WIRNS, will there still be the time delay issue suggested by a previous poster? Don't you need to have the DNNA servers connecting to keep the units viable? No one is suggesting that WIRNS can take over for what DNNA provides in total, right?


----------



## erickotz

I'm a bit concerned here. Didn't the ReplayTV use some sort of PKI encryption/signing and WinRS proxy'd that to the real ReplayTV servers? Last I knew (and I'll admit I did not keep up to date on this) you could not use WinRS to make an unactivated ReplayTV unit functional.

If my memory is correct, I'm very concerned that WinRS won't be a functional option after the official servers are shut off.


----------



## choliscott

The monthly unit that I have now says "Activated". Someone else reported they tried activating an unactivated unit & it activated just fine with no problems.


I should add that even on my lifetime units where it said "one time fee paid", now just say "Activated"


Right now I believe one of the big issues will be the time setting, since Wirns gets the time from RTV server itself.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20576718
> 
> 
> I'm a bit concerned here. Didn't the ReplayTV use some sort of PKI encryption/signing and WinRS proxy'd that to the real ReplayTV servers? Last I knew (and I'll admit I did not keep up to date on this) you could not use WinRS to make an unactivated ReplayTV unit functional.
> 
> If my memory is correct, I'm very concerned that WinRS won't be a functional option after the official servers are shut off.


----------



## Sonyad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20576649
> 
> 
> Another new thing that sux. They have completely taken down all the support info on their site. Yesterday you could still get there through "forgot password," but today it transfers you to RIO and you can't log in at all (the password they send doesn't work). (Although I just did find another way to those pages, for now, but knowledge base is gone.)



I was worried about that. Last night after posting, I tried to log in to see the status of my monthly unit and verify charges. I thought I had forgotten my password and I received the temporary one, but it didn't work. Tried to reset the password again and it still does not work. I'll call them in 10 minutes, after they supposedly will open and see what the deal is.


----------



## baeder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20575886
> 
> 
> Although I'm sure it is unlikely, I think the most graceful, goodwill-building exit DNNA could make from ReplayTV would be if they open-sourced the software and made available whatever development-, support- and deployment- tools they have and just let the community tear into it and figure out ways of extending the life of the remaining boxes until hardware attrition and waning interest brings things to a satisfying end.



That's not always possible - depends a lot on who "owns" the rights to code that they licensed from others to use! But it's nice to wish for


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20575720
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> I'm not sure how that helps. The RTVs can't get guide data from DVA, so having DVA have the listing information will only allow DVA to "look" nicer...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you can program replays from DVA just like programing a replay itself. If the guide is there and DVA functions the same way, then I can program everything from there and it will be pushed to the replay like it is now, which can change the channels of the cable box if the ir blaster codes are in the hard drive as a previous poster suggested.
Click to expand...


Sorry, but that's not how it works. All DVA can do is to tell the RTV what show to record from the RTV's guide. So, if the RTV doesn't have any guide data, then it won't be able to accept recording schedules...


Also, I don't think that DVA has the ability to schedule manual recordings (actually, DVA doesn't have much support for manual recordings in the first place). I'm not sure that the RTV itself has much support for remote scheduling of manual recordings...


So, as I said, you have to have guide data on the RTV, and then you can use DVA to give you a nice interface to it...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sslund* /forum/post/20575774
> 
> 
> Thanks, Henry -- will do. On the plus side, there will hopefully be lots of new folks so I won't be the only new person struggling



I'll still be more than willing to try to help you get it going! I didn't give up on you last time!










Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20575784
> 
> 
> But, AFAIR, I do not recall the "*Use Web Proxy?*" option - I will look into it.



I copied it from the configuration screen, which is why I put it in quotes, including the question mark...


I've used it several times to make sure it operates properly. In fact, WiRNS has configuration options specifically for operating as the guide server for DVArchive...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20575886
> 
> 
> Although I'm sure it is unlikely, I think the most graceful, goodwill-building exit DNNA could make from ReplayTV would be if they open-sourced the software and made available whatever development-, support- and deployment- tools they have and just let the community tear into it and figure out ways of extending the life of the remaining boxes until hardware attrition and waning interest brings things to a satisfying end. As is all too typical, they would likely resist any such suggestion on the basis of "they paid good money for those rights so why should they just give them up" (and gee, just any minute they might find a new business model which will make them want to jump right back in, or they will find someone who wants to pay big money for the rights to a dead product,or . . .), but clearly, the main reason they bought into it was to milk the subscription service as long as they could, and that surely has met their expectations. If they are ready to call it a day, clinging to their rights to software they are never going to use or sell, is pointless, but giving it away to the community could buy them a lot of goodwill. Admittedly, that goodwill might not have that much value for them as I don't know, realistically, how great a potential for crossover business to other products they could expect under even the most ideal conditions. Even if the value of that goodwill is peanuts, though, unless there is some pretty innovative tech in that software which they could (and would) apply to other projects or sell outright, the value of the ReplayTV software is most likely zero except in the context of an active ReplayTV business which they (and their predecessors) have been slowly abandoning for years. They might as well opt for peanuts.



I started out thinking the same thing, but immediately realized that they would have two concerns. Number one, there is proprietary technology in their code, which I think they sold to DirecTV, so they may not even be in a position to reveal it. Much less that I doubt that they would want to allow their proprietary technology be used by anyone for anything. And, two, I would think they might be concerned that someone else could use their technology for making money, such as starting a subscription based guide server...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aeblank* /forum/post/20576194
> 
> 
> Regarding the DHCP bug... With any router I've dealt with, I haven't had issues with 1) let the Replay get a DHCP'd address. 2) change the Replay to manual settings identical to what was DHCP'd, except change both DNSs to the WiRNS box. When the replay stupidly asks for an IP address, it will get the one the router originally gave to it, however since the OS has the manual settings (with the same IP address, mind you) it works.



This is an excelent idea as long as the router never reboots. Unforutnately, after the router reboots, you can't control the order that it will hand out DHCP addresses such that the RTV will get the same DHCP address that it did previously. So, if the router rebooted and the RTV got a different DHCP address, then you'd have to change its fix address to the new DHCP address...


And, even if you used a UPS on the router, it is quite common for them to reboot after chaning configuration options. Or, maybe you just have to reboot them every once in awhile because they start acting "strange"...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aeblank* /forum/post/20576194
> 
> 
> I have often wondered about an off-site WiRNS server. Then I could run one computer for multiple family members or someone here could run one for the setup-challenged people or some such. Seems possible, but I don't have a fixed IP, so it would be pretty difficult. I can't put in a dynamic DNS name for my DNS settings. =) The place it would be useful for me is my grandma's place. My parents stay there a month a year, there isn't a desktop around and maintaining wirns on it would suck anyway just like it would on the laptop they bring. Not sure what I'm going to do there.....



I'm acutually doing this to serve my home and my two daughters individual places. I use VPNs and DDNS to get the fixed connections that I need...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20576199
> 
> 
> The Replay guide update process was once explained in one of the forums (can't find it now). The Replay apparently gets the new guide data and goes through a "combine" process that adds the new days and channels and updates only the next day. If something changes three days out, the Replay won't reflect that until the day before (DVA shows the update immediately).



The RTV doesn't update the guide data for every day, but it keeps a rolling 14-day guide (actually, 13 days) with the more current days being acurate. So, it isn't that it's three days out in particular, that happens to be one of the holes. Four days out, for example, is up to date, as is two days out...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pshovest* /forum/post/20576278
> 
> 
> If guide info comes from the same place, it sure seems odd that I can have several days where the DVA and replay guide are different.
> 
> I've only noticed this problem on one network ...Centric TV (Comcast).
> 
> The Replay guide doesn't agree with the DVA guide until a day or so before show is scheduled.



Well, they DO come from the same place, however they don't use the same algorithm for downloading the guide data. The RTV uses a scattered "rolling" two week window and DVA always updates however many days that you configure it for. So, DVA can have the very latest guide information for every day that you've configured, whereas the RTV always has "stale" days of guide data unless you clear the channel guide, which forces it to re-download the entire guide...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20576508
> 
> 
> The DHCP bug is that after setting the IP that was assigned dynamically as static, it doesn't realize it as that IP and gets a different one when it stupidly asks again. So just putting the one in place that it just got does not eliminate the problem that it will eventually get another one assigned. You can even see this with normal dynamic behavior. My computers, if they remain active on the network, get their IP leases renewed over and over, so they rarely change IPs. The replays change IPs every few days although they are constantly renewing too. That's the bug - it won't get the same one.



Acutally, that's also a function of the DHCP server. Renewing leases and requesting leases aren't the same thing. When the RTV reboots every week, it asks for a new lease, just like your laptop or PC would do if you reboot it. However, the RTV requests the same lease it had last time, which your laptop and PC do as well, and it depends on the DHCP server if it wants to grant it the same lease it had previously. Many DHCP servers keep track of the last lease of every device and when they ask for a new lease, they give the their old one automatically. But, since the protocol has in it for devices to tell the DHCP server what lease they would like to have, if your DHCP server had that lease available and didn't give it to that device, then it would simply be that it wasn't implemented...


All of these things with leases are all part of the spec. The problem comes from very simply implemented DHCP servers which don't provide for the full features, but still do a reasonable job of giving out addresses...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2

Here is what I learned:


EVERYTHING is closing down on 7/31 - the servers, tech support, the website.


No servers means no clock or channels, and you will not be able to choose a provider.


The blaster codes are on the hard drive of the units, so if you manually enter a channel, it can send it to the cable box.


You will not be able to choose a provider, so you will not be able to get channels, or a blank channel guide.


All recording setups will disappear. Any on-going (record every week, etc), will be gone.


They have no idea how anyone will even be able to manually record since you will need the clock to be in sync and channels (which cannot be manually entered since you have to get them via a provider) to do this. They hope to get clarification on this later.


So, if WiRNS needs DNNA servers for anything, it will not work either.


I would love to pool together any buy them out. The contact is this person:

Michael Begala

VP Service

D&M Holdings

100 Corporate Dr.

Mahwah, NJ 07430


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *choliscott* /forum/post/20576795
> 
> 
> The monthly unit that I have now says "Activated". Someone else reported they tried activating an unactivated unit & it activated just fine with no problems.



Actually, if you read it again, they didn't say that. They said that they couldn't get an unsubscribed unit activated, and then they later posted that they got two units activated. So, it certainly wasn't clear to me that the second post was talking about unsubscribed units specifically, it could have been the two units that he had on monthly subscription...


I also pulled out one of my never subscribed units that I was keeping for spare parts, and I've yet to be able to activate it...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20577399
> 
> 
> Acutally, that's also a function of the DHCP server. Renewing leases and requesting leases aren't the same thing. When the RTV reboots every week, it asks for a new lease, just like your laptop or PC would do if you reboot it. However, the RTV requests the same lease it had last time, which your laptop and PC do as well, and it depends on the DHCP server if it wants to grant it the same lease it had previously. Many DHCP servers keep track of the last lease of every device and when they ask for a new lease, they give the their old one automatically. But, since the protocol has in it for devices to tell the DHCP server what lease they would like to have, if your DHCP server had that lease available and didn't give it to that device, then it would simply be that it wasn't implemented...
> 
> 
> All of these things with leases are all part of the spec. The problem comes from very simply implemented DHCP servers which don't provide for the full features, but still do a reasonable job of giving out addresses...
> 
> 
> Henry



Thanks. That is what is supposed to happen, but because of the bug, it assigns a second lease when the unit has a static one so in essence the unit now has two which leads to a conflict. It doesn't work as in your description - it is flawed.


----------



## RChobby

So to be clear, WiRNS will set the clock of the ReplayTV units, right? I understand it will send out channel guide info, if correctly configured with schedulesdirect.


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20577415
> 
> 
> They have no idea how anyone will even be able to manually record since you will need the clock to be in sync and channels (which cannot be manually entered since you have to get them via a provider) to do this. They hope to get clarification on this later.
> 
> 
> So, if WiRNS needs DNNA servers for anything, it will not work either.



Have faith in the community we *will* make it work. The hardest part (guide data) is done.


Robert


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20577415
> 
> 
> Here is what I learned:
> 
> 
> EVERYTHING is closing down on 7/31 - the servers, tech support, the website.
> 
> 
> No servers means no clock or channels, and you will not be able to choose a provider.
> 
> 
> The blaster codes are on the hard drive of the units, so if you manually enter a channel, it can send it to the cable box.
> 
> 
> You will not be able to choose a provider, so you will not be able to get channels, or a blank channel guide.
> 
> 
> All recording setups will disappear. Any on-going (record every week, etc), will be gone.
> 
> 
> They have no idea how anyone will even be able to manually record since you will need the clock to be in sync and channels (which cannot be manually entered since you have to get them via a provider) to do this. They hope to get clarification on this later.
> 
> 
> So, if WiRNS needs DNNA servers for anything, it will not work either.
> 
> 
> I would love to pool together any buy them out. The contact is this person:
> 
> Michael Begala
> 
> VP Service
> 
> D&M Holdings
> 
> 100 Corporate Dr.
> 
> Mahwah, NJ 07430



Well, that's completely different information that they gave me yesterday! And, it isn't clear that anyone at RTV support actually knows how it's going to be implemetned. The servers aren't even located in Waco with the support office, so I'm not sure that they would know what's going to happen with them. I could certainly see that they may be planning to shut down the Waco support center, but since the servers aren't located there, it shouldn't be a problem...


I glad you were able to get some contact information, because they told me yesterday that they had none to give...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20577451
> 
> 
> So to be clear, WiRNS will set the clock of the ReplayTV units, right? I understand it will send out channel guide info, if correctly configured with schedulesdirect.



No, WiRNS doesn't set the clock, it only proxies the clock set request...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20577470
> 
> 
> Have faith in the community we *will* make it work. The hardest part (guide data) is done.
> 
> 
> Robert



I have SO much faith in you all - believe me. I just don't think anything that exists right now can actually work. Something new has to be developed since everything depends on DNNA's servers, which are shutting down. They are completely closing the company, which is held by D&M.


And it isn't just the guide data going - that was misleading of them - it is EVERYTHING.


----------



## bob645

We all knew this day was going to come someday.

My only hope is that the 'Activated' status without a date means forever and never needs to checkin with the mothership in the future (Permanant activation).

I'm confident that the WiRNS and SD folks will make whatever adjustments needed to keep our boxen running.


----------



## notyoung

Just got the dreaded message after turning on my TV/replaytv. What a hassle. On the plus side, it's good to see the community still active.


So what I gather from this thread

1) We will still be able to use the replaytv by using WiRNS with Schedules Direct ($20 a year). This will actually be cheaper for me, since I'm one of the fools on a monthly plan


2) there's a problem with clock setting


3) Activating a unit is also a problem since it uses ReplayTV servers


Is that right?



Also for the people talking about DHCP problems, it's possible to assign your ReplayTV the same IP address using custom firmware on a router. Newer routers might even have this feature built in. I've been doing this for several years and never had a problem. Here's my router running DD-WRT.


----------



## cliffcor

I think a lot of us old time Wirns users will try to help the new folks. WOrk and travel are constraints, but I figure the more the merrier. Maybe start some Help to the new comers threads and encourage folks to post installation / setup issues there.


The clock issue seems to be the main hurdle after 7/31. One very much hopes that a solution is discovered to allow clock setting absent the daily Mothership contact. Seems to be key. Wirns is actually an enhancement to DNNA guides, and $20/yr for the Schedules Direct data is a bargain in my view.


Cliff


----------



## Ghoul

It would be nice if they pushed a software update that decrypted the files on the drive for starters. Fat chance of that happening. It would also be beneficial for the hacker community to start logging all mothership contacts and keeping those logs and data to reproduce things (including the activation algorithm). My understanding is that it was rumored years ago that all this had already been worked out by some elite folks and it would show up when the service went away.


----------



## sbwinter2

I am geeky, but not WiRNS geeky. I am willing to help in getting something working for the replay community. I am even going to contact D&M and see if anything can be done to salvage what they have (through buy out or whatever).


To make this work, we would almost need to start a new centralized service. Co-op anyone?


----------



## choliscott

Do you think there will be any issues with having Wirns set the replay time using the clock on the computer that Wirns is installed?


With everything else Wirns can do, I would think this would be "easy" to implement, but I could be wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hdonzis* 
No, WiRNS doesn't set the clock, it only proxies the clock set request...


Henry


----------



## choliscott

I know Glenn said that he was going to post some detailed instructions & do an update to Wirns.


I was also going to post a video with how to install & configure Wirns (The Basic setup, at least to get the person going) a little later today or this evening.


----------



## sbwinter2

But will WiRNS even work?


If you unplug your Replay from the ethernet and clear out the provider/channel guide from replaytv (which means no identified inputs for this experiment). Remove any connection between WiRNS and ReplayTV on the software side if there is any. Does WiRNS still work? If there is no connection to DNNA anywhere, does WirNS enable the box to work?


----------



## truckie36

I just got off the phone with DNNA trying to do a first time activation. They are not billing and would not activate the replay. unless the community can figure some way to activate them, I have 4 replays that are definitely bricks / spare parts.


----------



## kohan45

What about Replay 2000 that does not have internet access ?


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Ok, this really ticks me off. I have 3 replays with lifetime subscriptions. I want a refund now that they have decided to not honor it. I have lifetime subscriptions, I shouldn't HAVE to pay for a Schedules Direct subscription!


With that said, is there any way IVS could continue to work with my friends?


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *choliscott* 
Do you think there will be any issues with having Wirns set the replay time using the clock on the computer that Wirns is installed?


With everything else Wirns can do, I would think this would be "easy" to implement, but I could be wrong
WiRNS doesn't have the time server code in it, but this really isn't the main issue, and I don't think that setting the clock is going to be an issue at all...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* 
But will WiRNS even work?


If you unplug your Replay from the ethernet and clear out the provider/channel guide from replaytv (which means no identified inputs for this experiment). Remove any connection between WiRNS and ReplayTV on the software side if there is any. Does WiRNS still work? If there is no connection to DNNA anywhere, does WirNS enable the box to work?
Lots of people use WiRNS without any internet connection at all, so this isn't going to be the problem...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *kohan45* 
What about Replay 2000 that does not have internet access ?
The 2000 uses dial-up service to get it's internet access. So, if you want to be able to use it with your own networking access, you need to us a dial-up router to get the 2000 on the network. This is also what dial-up users do when they have no dial-up service...


Henry


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Another thought, what if my replaytv hard drive dies and I have to install a new one...will it know it is a fully activated box?


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* 
With that said, is there any way IVS could continue to work with my friends?
There have been backup servers in place for that for many years. There's a thread on Poopli about how to configure your RTV to use the backup servers if you're not using WiRNS or IVSmagic...


Henry


----------



## JJON2121

I have a HD Tivo. A program called KMTTG lets me transfer HD channels 703-717 plus LMN to the computer and convert to mpeg2. It will even encode to a number of formats. I prefer to use AutoGK with xvid.


One of my replays is used with a HD cable box for primetime overflow and to record programs or movies (not transferrable with tivo) I want to keep. One of my other replays is used to manual record DVDs and Blu-Ray discs. The other is used to manual record from the HD Tivo. All of these files can be transferred to the computer via DVArchive. When encoded, they are cropped and play at 16x9 resolution.


If the replay channel thing doesn't work out with WIRNS, I will pick up a second HD Tivo and do more manual recording for transfer to the computer. Either from the cable box or from one of the HDTivos


A bit more of a hassle, but not that big of a deal.


----------



## sbwinter2

Experimenting with my extra replay unit, I discovered that unless you have already downloaded the provider and channels once, you will not be able to do it without the DNNA server, and thus, cannot setup an input, so get no video signal at all.


Before 7/31, everyone should at least download all possible inputs as possible so that the channels get loaded. Once they are there, you can disconnect the ethernet and still manually program (or regularly program for now). I am not sure what happens after the TV guide runs out of days - if that will disable the channel's functionality to even manually record.


If you do not set up an input prior to 7/31, then you are guaranteed a brick unless WiRNS ends up being a solution (which I am not convinced of yet due to what has been said about its dependency on DNNA).


Does WiRNS also allow the replay to setup the provider from a list of area providers? This is different than the channel guide. If it cannot, then the unit cannot get any video at all (there is no pass-through).


----------



## dryduck

So now may be the time to pull out the spare 5504 I have and make sure it activates. I had it active for a month or so when I first got it (in order to get the rebate) but not used it in the many years since. And then make a backup of it (and my lifetime unit, once I replace its drive, which I better hurry up and do!) rather than relying on being able to load a new image to a drive in the future!


Giving up the ReplayTV altogether will be pretty sad for me. I've been using one model or another since the very beginning... not sure how good the integrated satellite receiver DVRs are but I have a feeling I may be finding out (paying monthly for the dvr privilege sucks though).


----------



## RIAW

I must admit that it'd been so long since I was on this forum that I had to go to my Rolodex to find my login info...

-----------------------------------------------


My wife has had a Replay TV almost forever. (5000 series I guess it is)


And it took at least a year for her to understand how to program it without daily assistance. I still have to get involved from time to time.


I was hoping that things wouldn't change as I hardly ever watch TV other than to surf once in a while on the handful of HD channels that are still available on the Comcast cable without a box when I connect the HDTV directly to the bare cable.


It's been annoying to hear my wife's complaints on incorrect programming because for whatever reason the IR blaster didn't work with the Motorola Box. An ongoing intermittent problem that I've spent more time than I wished on to still not get it 100% working.


2 days ago I spent 2 hours at a friend's trying to figure out why/how his Replay hadn't received for 2 weeks updates via Internet. A series of messages 3 days apart of failures. I had to puzzle things out since I've only used a phone connection since day 1 before we had reliable internet from Comcast. Now I'm wondering if my wasted time trying to get his fixed was a waste of time which I'm guessing is the case. I couldn't even get his to make contact via phone and I was suggesting that there was a hardware failure. Probably makes no difference now. And he'll have the same problem in their weekend place where I hooked up his Replay there to phone home since he has only a bootleg internet connection via the next door neighbor.


I hate the thought (and cost) of having to move my wife to another method of recording and she and she has problems with computers and even about e-mail on her computer and I get called at least twice a week to remind her how to do something and to get rid of the incorrectly addressed messages that she complains about.


I periodically cleaned up the screens full of old no longer valid programs to record that she'd refuse to delete.


I guess a recorder from the cable provider is going to be in our Future and involving $$$$ that I'd rather spend on something else and hours of trying to get it so she remembers how to do things with a new piece of hardware.


It's hard to teach a 77 year old (her birthday was 2 days ago) new tricks in her case anyway!!!


And I have too many other house/garden projects to even be able to devote as much time to computers and amateur radio hardware restoration projects that I'd rather be doing. Guess I'll be putting on Craigslist the original unused 40 GB HD that I replaced with a much larger one within a week of getting the Replay. Might be somebody in Silicon Valley who would want it in trade for something.


I DID appreciate the Replay tech who found 2 remotes in the back room when I walked into their Cupertino location the day after my wife gave her remote a dunking in a foot bath... I asked how much and he said just take them we have plenty.


He sort of qualified as Santa that year but in the long run....


There is no Santa Claus!!! BAH, HUMBUG!!!


----------



## medtaylor

Boy this does suck! I have been a Replay fan for many years. Unfortunately I am Mac not PC so using Wirns is not an option. I also do not have broadband yet!:-(

My unit gets its input from a cable box so I can use its channel guide to search. But if everything is being shut down (and there is no way to manually set the time), I see a large metal brick heading to the local electronic waste disposal unit. My local cable company (San Bruno Cable) does offer a dvr for $7.30 a month (it replaces the cable box). Sadly I see that or a TIVO in my future.


----------



## TheRealAnubis

When I called and brought up the problem with setting the clock, the guy asked 'why do you think that will be a problem?'

He said that the unit will still dial up to sync the clock, but the guide is just gone...


I have a Panasonic showstopper with the phone dialup.. Any ideas on how to get some guide information to my old reliable unit?


----------



## rgeese




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *truckie36* /forum/post/20577941
> 
> 
> I just got off the phone with DNNA trying to do a first time activation. They are not billing and would not activate the replay. unless the community can figure some way to activate them, I have 4 replays that are definitely bricks / spare parts.



That is the same story I got today after calling. In 2004 Replaytv offered refurbished 5040's for $50.00. I bought one just to have as a spare for parts, or in case my daily one broke. It has never been activated. Last night I could take the actvation for it up to the point of entering a credit card number for monthly service, but was really reluctant to do that! The rep told me today that they are no longer activating units, and essentially I am out of luck.


I will probably break down and go with the dreaded "T" word.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheRealAnubis* /forum/post/20578813
> 
> 
> When I called and brought up the problem with setting the clock, the guy asked 'why do you think that will be a problem?'
> 
> He said that the unit will still dial up to sync the clock, but the guide is just gone...
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic showstopper with the phone dialup.. Any ideas on how to get some guide information to my old reliable unit?



According to the guy I spoke with, he is wrong. The servers that sync the clock are going down. The units will not be able to dial in any longer if there are no servers.


-- I just called and confirmed again - everything is going down. There will be no synching of clocks or anything. This rep was told that her sources said you could manually record, but I told that will not be possible unless you load the input channels ahead of time because the unit gets no video without that. I also reemphasized how much we all love our replays and want to do what we can to keep them going. She said she has had many many calls like that.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheRealAnubis* /forum/post/20578813
> 
> 
> I have a Panasonic showstopper with the phone dialup.. Any ideas on how to get some guide information to my old reliable unit?



See this post. And, actually, Ian Prest wrote instructions on how to make your own guide server, which are sited in this post...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rgeese* /forum/post/20578881
> 
> 
> That is the same story I got today after calling. In 2004 Replaytv offered refurbished 5040's for $50.00. I bought one just to have as a spare for parts, or in case my daily one broke. It has never been activated. Last night I could take the actvation for it up to the point of entering a credit card number for monthly service, but was really reluctant to do that! The rep told me today that they are no longer activating units, and essentially I am out of luck.



I actually went all the way through with trying to activate one of my "closet" units, especially since it was only going to charge me ~ $3.50 (which I figured would be a bargain). But, it failed to go through and I was going to attempt to call RTV support today, but from the posts I guess I won't bother...


Henry


----------



## notyoung

So what happens if you want to swap out the hard drive after the July shutdown? Will you be able to activate the machine?


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20578214
> 
> 
> Lots of people use WiRNS without any internet connection at all, so this isn't going to be the problem...
> 
> 
> Henry



Henry, can you explain this more? How can WiRNS not need the internet to synch its own listings in order to send them out to the replays?


And again, can WiRNS set the provider since there is no way to set an input without choosing a provider. After that the unit tries to connect, and there is no way around that. If it cannot connect, then there will be no video allowed in to the unit. Does WiRNS serve the same function as the centralized server?


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *notyoung* /forum/post/20579185
> 
> 
> So what happens if you want to swap out the hard drive after the July shutdown? Will you be able to activate the machine?



I believe that if you cannot connect, you cannot get any service. I already know that if you cannot setup an input, you cannot get any service.


----------



## terabid

I have been connected to a cable service for years and use my RF Blaster to change channels. Their change was unnecessary other than to save them money while refusing to honor their contract with their customers. The issue of analog versus digital is a red herring. Almost everybody connects to either a cable or satellite system which can be controlled by the replay box by either an RF blaster or a pin connector (supplied originally by Replay) and does the digital to analog conversion. At the very least they should have offered their customers financial compensation if they no longer wished to honor their contract. This is a good reason for a class action lawsuit.

They seem to not realize that not only are they taking the guide capability away but they have made it impossible to record anything except by time. Even that won't work if a power outage causes the clock to lose its value.


----------



## jlv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20575545
> 
> 
> DVArchive only use RTV-style guide data. However, it can get RTV-style guide data from WiRNS. So, when DNNA stops deliverying guide data, then DVArchive will only be able to get guide data from some other place, such as WiRNS, by using the "Use Web Proxy?" configuration.



It works very well, too. This is how I've had DVarchive configured since I started using WiRNS, since I wanted DVarchive to get the remapped OTA channels. File->DVarchive Properties->TV Guide and the setting Henry mentioned above.


I even run DVarchive and WiRNS on the same XP box (using multiple IP addresses on the same NIC).


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579206
> 
> 
> Henry, can you explain this more? How can WiRNS not need the internet to synch its own listings in order to send them out to the replays?



WiRNS reads the listings from a listing source, which doesn't have to be on the Internet. If you want it to log directly into SchedulesDirect, then it has to be on the Internet at that point in time. However, if you want to simply download a long period of listings and then not download any more for a long period of time, that is no problem...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579206
> 
> 
> And again, can WiRNS set the provider since there is no way to set an input without choosing a provider. After that the unit tries to connect, and there is no way around that. If it cannot connect, then there will be no video allowed in to the unit. Does WiRNS serve the same function as the centralized server?



WiRNS doesn't set the provider, you pick it on the RTV. WiRNS simply passes through the provider information from the listing source. So, if you use SchedulesDirect, for example, then you see the provider names that you see in your SD account...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20579403
> 
> 
> 
> WiRNS doesn't set the provider, you pick it on the RTV. WiRNS simply passes through the provider information from the listing source. So, if you use SchedulesDirect, for example, then you see the provider names that you see in your SD account...
> 
> 
> Henry



So, if you can no longer pick a provider (since that is going away), how can you get the listings from WiRNS?


----------



## jlv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ghoul* /forum/post/20577794
> 
> 
> ... It would also be beneficial for the hacker community to start logging all mothership contacts and keeping those logs and data to reproduce things (including the activation algorithm). My understanding is that it was rumored years ago that all this had already been worked out by some elite folks and it would show up when the service went away.



I've actually been logging *all* the traffic from my Replay's back to the mothership since 2004 when they pushed out 530511440 that disabled IVS/CA on the 55xx. I was using a version of the replaytv_proxy.pl script I found to send shellcmds to enable IVS/CA, and before that version was pushed to my 5504, I modified the script based upon how j.m. described how the 'no software update' WiRNS plugin worked. I've got it hooked in as a transparent proxy on my firewall, so even when I eventually switched to WiRNS, all that traffic kept going through it. I started logging the data to debug any problems I had... and just never stopped.


Looking at the logs, at some point I deleted everything older than 01/01/2006. So, in case anyone really needs it, I have every byte of 214186 connections saved:


$ du -sh RTV-proxy/log/

1.2G RTV-proxy/log/


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20577415
> 
> 
> I would love to pool together any buy them out. The contact is this person:
> 
> Michael Begala
> 
> VP Service
> 
> D&M Holdings
> 
> 100 Corporate Dr.
> 
> Mahwah, NJ 07430



As you've been talking with someone there, is there any chance you can ask them if they will put up the "server" software for the ReplayTV binaries (or even better, source) along with the signing key for the ReplayTV so people can set up their own service? I doubt there is much, if any, IP, and it would be useful for people wanting to do their own thing.


----------



## jlv

I had initially used XMLTV when I first started using WiRNS... before I realized it was trivial to keep using the DNNA guide data (Henry straightened me out on that). One of the thoughts I had last night was to consider trying XMLTV again, but this time trying to scrape one of the *other existing* streams of guide data already being downloaded over my Internet connection by

MCE
HDHomeRun dual-tuner
Sony Bravia TV _(which has a completely horrible interface and I'm so sorry I bought it)_

I've not looked into it, but I suspect the MCE data is hard to get at, but the other two might not be too hard.


This morning I realized that I could waste a considerable amount of time at this effort and _maybe_ get something working... while using WiRNS with Schedules Direct will pretty much *just work*... and at $20/year is an incredible bargain. I think I'll just be going with SD.


----------



## gfmrtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579506
> 
> 
> So, if you can no longer pick a provider (since that is going away), how can you get the listings from WiRNS?



I don't know how it will work out in the long run, but WiRNS adds NEW providers to the list that come from the Replay guide service. The WiRNS provider names are prefaced by "WiRNS:" and have only the channels you manually select from your SchedulesDirect account. You pick the one(s) you need from the Replay (or DVA) setup screen, such as "WiRNS: Local Broadcast Channels" and "WiRNS: Friendly Cable Company Lineup B".


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20579612
> 
> 
> I don't know how it will work out in the long run, but WiRNS adds NEW providers to the list that come from the Replay guide service. The WiRNS provider names are prefaced by "WiRNS:" and have only the channels you manually select from your SchedulesDirect account. You pick the one(s) you need from the Replay (or DVA) setup screen, such as "WiRNS: Local Broadcast Channels" and "WiRNS: Friendly Cable Company Lineup B".



Thanks. I guess like I am asking the same question over and over. If the Replay guide service is gone for WiRNS, and the replay can not pick a provider any more through the unit (except, I guess, if it is already picked prior to disconnection, but who knows how long they will last without the updates), then how can WiRNS know what listings to load?


And if you are lucky enough to be able to continue to use the provider you are currently using, that means you can never change it since you cannot load a new provider - so no adding, changing, moving locations, changing antennas. Right?


----------



## WSK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20577431
> 
> 
> Actually, if you read it again, they didn't say that. They said that they couldn't get an unsubscribed unit activated, and then they later posted that they got two units activated. So, it certainly wasn't clear to me that the second post was talking about unsubscribed units specifically, it could have been the two units that he had on monthly subscription...
> 
> 
> I also pulled out one of my never subscribed units that I was keeping for spare parts, and I've yet to be able to activate it...
> 
> 
> Henry



I have a unit that was subscribed to monthly that I deactivated a few years ago. I just hooked it up, and it connected to the servers and now shows "Activated."


It sounds like if it has ever been activated, it will work, but if it was never activated, it will not. How will this effect units that you make a new disk for? Any thoughts?


Bill


----------



## adam1991

I'm guessing there are people at Replay who have zero objection to unlocking the whole shebang under the hoods of our units, but that contingency was never planned for--and it's too late now.


----------



## gfmrtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579662
> 
> 
> Thanks. I guess like I am asking the same question over and over. If the Replay guide service is gone for WiRNS, and the replay can not pick a provider any more through the unit (except, I guess, if it is already picked prior to disconnection, but who knows how long they will last without the updates), then how can WiRNS know what listings to load?



My guess would be that the "WiRNS:..." providers would become the ONLY providers in your list (once the Replay guide server goes away). WiRNS is pulling its "extra" provider names and channel information from SchedulesDirect, not the Replay guide service (which is based on ZIP code). So, with WiRNS installed, you will still pick the provider of your choice in the Replay/DVA setup based on what YOU configure in SchedulesDirect, which can include multiple providers and can be changed at any time.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20579685
> 
> 
> My guess would be that the "WiRNS:..." providers would become the ONLY providers in your list (once the Replay guide server goes away). WiRNS is pulling its "extra" provider names and channel information from SchedulesDirect, not the Replay guide service (which is based on ZIP code). So, with WiRNS installed, you will still pick the provider of your choice in the Replay/DVA setup based on what YOU configure in SchedulesDirect, which can include multiple providers and can be changed at any time.



Hi. I guess I need to ask this again because I must be confusing.


After the servers go down, the replay units will no longer be able to pick a provider (because it requires a connection). This means the unit can no longer receive any video signal whatsoever because you have to have a unit-chosen provider in place to get video signal (this I confirmed though my own unit). If the unit cannot pick a provider at all, how does it get video signals to work even if it can download the guide from WiRNS?


If you are hooked to WiRNS, when you run the connection, does it connect to WiRNS and pick the provider which updates the guide and other required elements now being provided through a net connect with DNNA?


----------



## KwadGuy

I can see where those with Replay branded units are up a creek, since the company that sold them to you is gone.


On the other hand, what about people who still have and use Showstopper units, sold by Panasonic, who are alive and well. It would seem you might be able to get some satisfaction out of them...


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20579048
> 
> 
> See this post. And, actually, Ian Prest wrote instructions on how to make your own guide server, which are sited in this post...
> 
> 
> Henry



I have used a collection of perl scripts on a Linux server to run a limited ReplayTV service for myself for many years, mainly motivated by the fact that I am in Canada. I originally got a lot of the code from Ian Prest's work and some other sources. It is ugly and maybe not ready for prime time and not easy to install right now since it depends on some tricks, but I will try (again) to package it up.


The worrisome thing is that setting the Replay clock is based on an encrypted signature. The encryption is good --- meaning breaking it using brute force methods is not probable.


If DNNA (or somebody) was willing to give out the ElGamal private key, then either WIRNS or my scripts or other methods could do everything needed to reprogram the ReplayTV units at will. This would include time setting, activation, altering the on-screen panels and other neat stuff. The internal software is quite configurable, but almost everything is locked down with their encryption and they did an excellent job of it.


In the meantime I would suggest that people activate the ptvio shell, especially if your unit does not DEFINITELY have LIFETIME activation. Turning on the ptvio shell can cause occasional problems and can only be used with s special home-made cable, but it provides a important back door into a unit if it malfunctions.


--Greg


----------



## sbwinter2

I did forget to acknowledge that recording for a no-device input works with any input including cable boxes on a set channel. We can still record a single or series of shows as long as we remember to set the channel (remember VCR days?). This is obvious, but does offer some comfort while trying to figure out what to do next.


----------



## windomearle

So does this mean IVS will be dead too? No more Poopli? IVS needs the servers to locate other Replay units, right?


So will they stop charging my credit card? It was last charged on 5/24. I have one lifetime and two monthlies. Will I still be able to watch the shows I've already recorded?


Actually, I've barely used my Replays in the past half year. I've been using Windows 7 Media Center for a year and a half. First I could only record QAM and analog channels. Then in December I got the Ceton 4 tuner cablecard tuner. Since then I haven't found much reason to use the Replays. But then one of my units went bad and I had to reformat it. Luckily I was able to save all the shows off of it to a PC. So that unit actually has no shows on it. Anyway, I would recommend Windows Media Center with Showanalyzer to do automatic commercial skipping to anyone looking for life after Replay.


----------



## notyoung

I bet the developers have some backdoor super secret method of getting a unit activated. Since we have using these devices and in some cases paying monthly fees, I think they owe us something for our loyalty. The developers just need to come on here and help us out. I think I've had my unit for at least 5 years and I've been paying enough monthly fees to buy a lifetime subscription three times over.


Many people, like me, never really felt the need to upgrade our TV's and DVR's to HD because ReplayTV has been the best device on the market for our needs. The GUI is second to none, especially the ability to sort shows into self-made categories. The channel guide is super fast. My Dad has on old Tivo, and scrolling through his channel guide is beyond frustrating. His Tivo is a serious piece of junk compared to the ReplayTV.


Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Reden

Greg,


Any chance the changes Replay made dropped the requirement for the encrypted connection?


Is it a HTTPS connection? Have you tried a self-signed certificate?


What you've found doesn't sound good.










Robert


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WSK* /forum/post/20579665
> 
> 
> It sounds like if it has ever been activated, it will work, but if it was never activated, it will not. How will this effect units that you make a new disk for? Any thoughts?



Yeah, that's my conclusion as well, that it's whether it's ever been in the RTV database or not. I don't know exactly what that means, however, because my unit that I tested had used it's few day trial subscription, so apparently that doesn't count as being in the database. I know that RTV support could tell in the past that you had used the trial subscription, but I don't know if that was kept somewhere else....


As far a new disks, the activation goes with the unit, so it should activate the same as it was before the new disk. However, getting a new disk operating needs the activation server running, so that means there could be a difference for an already active disk versus an unactivated disk for the same RTV...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579757
> 
> 
> Hi. I guess I need to ask this again because I must be confusing.
> 
> 
> After the servers go down, the replay units will no longer be able to pick a provider (because it requires a connection). This means the unit can no longer receive any video signal whatsoever because you have to have a unit-chosen provider in place to get video signal (this I confirmed though my own unit). If the unit cannot pick a provider at all, how does it get video signals to work even if it can download the guide from WiRNS?
> 
> 
> If you are hooked to WiRNS, when you run the connection, does it connect to WiRNS and pick the provider which updates the guide and other required elements now being provided through a net connect with DNNA?



Instead of answering your PM, I'm going to answer this publicly to try to help others...


I think you are missing the big picture by focusing on what you see with your current RTV. WiRNS simply replaces the RTV server for guide data. In as much, nothing really changes. WiRNS still provides the same provider choices and lineup information and channel guide as you get today. Although, the details may vary slightly depending on your guide source. Using ScheduleDirect allows WiRNS to provide almost identical guide information as you currently receive. And, the fact that they both get their guide information from Tribune Media Services is one of the reasons for that. The format which TMS serves their data was upgraded some years ago, but RTV continues to use the older format. However, WiRNS, for example, also is aware of the new TMS format, so it also converts the new TMS format to the older format which the RTV uses. For example, if you look at Zap2It listings, you will see that it currently lists shows as "New". But, previously it used to list shows as "Repeat", which is the way that the RTV still shows them. So, WiRNS has to have an algorithm (which is explained on the SD forum) for converting the newer TMS format of defining shows into the RTV format of repeat episodes...


I don't know if you've ever used Zap2It.com or tv.com or tvguide.com, but they all show the same listing information for your area as your RTV. In fact, they first ask you for your ZIP code, and then to select your provider, just like your RTV. So, it's not like RTV made up this interface, it was the way that TMS works, which is the way that all these listing services work. So, all WiRNS does is take this listing service information and serve it up to your RTV just as your RTV normally expects. Depending on the listing service that you want to use to feed information into WiRNS, you would select your providers just as you would to the RTV, and just as you would to one of these web listing services. I think you'd need to try a ScheduleDirect account (use the free trial) to see how it works. You'll see that you select the listings that you want exactly the same way as you do on the RTV itself. Then, that information is fed into WiRNS and WiRNS feeds it to your RTV the same way as RTV does...


A major difference is that RTV somehow supplies guide data more in a pull method (I doubt that they download ALL of the guide data for the whole United States for every provider). Whereas WiRNS supplies guide data more in a push method, that you supply WiRNS with the guide information that you want it to supply to your RTVs/ So, instead of being able to pick from any number of providers from the RTV and having access to any guide information, you have to pick the provider and lineups that you want feed into WiRNS, and those are the only choices that you have on the RTVs themselves...


So, I think if you look at lineup website, or even think about the fact of how the TV listings were printed in the newspapers, you'll see that there's nothing unique about the way that RTV fed guide information, and there's no reason that WiRNS can't provide the same information...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20580358
> 
> 
> Any chance the changes Replay made dropped the requirement for the encrypted connection?
> 
> 
> Is it a HTTPS connection? Have you tried a self-signed certificate?
> 
> 
> What you've found doesn't sound good.



Robert, Replay never used HTTPS connections, but they use their own encryption techniques. The have two different uses of encryption, however, one on some of the network data, and some on the actual file data. But, the use the same or siimilar physical encryption techniques in both cases. All of this is documented in the TWIKI along with a lot of Ian's documentation that Greg spoke about. In fact, when I added 2K and 3K support to WiRNS, I used Ian's documentation and sample scripts to write the parsers that I added to WiRNS for that support...


For myself, I haven't noticed any difference in the communications since yesterday, except that they are now sending a bunch more registry settings for this service notification message. They are still using the same technique for activating units, which also is preventing never activated units from being activated. That is, it is still up to DNNA to activate the units using the same technique that they have been using all along. Making it still their choice if a unit is activated or not...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20580467
> 
> 
> Instead of answering your PM, I'm going to answer this publicly to try to help others...
> 
> 
> I think you are missing the big picture by focusing on what you see with your current RTV. WiRNS simply replaces the RTV server for guide data. In as much, nothing really changes. WiRNS still provides the same provider choices and lineup information and channel guide as you get today. Although, the details may vary slightly depending on your guide source. Using ScheduleDirect allows WiRNS to provide almost identical guide information as you currently receive. And, the fact that they both get their guide information from Tribune Media Services is one of the reasons for that. The format which TMS serves their data was upgraded some years ago, but RTV continues to use the older format. However, WiRNS, for example, also is aware of the new TMS format, so it also converts the new TMS format to the older format which the RTV uses. For example, if you look at Zap2It listings, you will see that it currently lists shows as "New". But, previously it used to list shows as "Repeat", which is the way that the RTV still shows them. So, WiRNS has to have an algorithm (which is explained on the SD forum) for converting the newer TMS format of defining shows into the RTV format of repeat episodes...
> 
> 
> I don't know if you've ever used Zap2It.com or tv.com or tvguide.com, but they all show the same listing information for your area as your RTV. In fact, they first ask you for your ZIP code, and then to select your provider, just like your RTV. So, it's not like RTV made up this interface, it was the way that TMS works, which is the way that all these listing services work. So, all WiRNS does is take this listing service information and serve it up to your RTV just as your RTV normally expects. Depending on the listing service that you want to use to feed information into WiRNS, you would select your providers just as you would to the RTV, and just as you would to one of these web listing services. I think you'd need to try a ScheduleDirect account (use the free trial) to see how it works. You'll see that you select the listings that you want exactly the same way as you do on the RTV itself. Then, that information is fed into WiRNS and WiRNS feeds it to your RTV the same way as RTV does...
> 
> 
> A major difference is that RTV somehow supplies guide data more in a pull method (I doubt that they download ALL of the guide data for the whole United States for every provider). Whereas WiRNS supplies guide data more in a push method, that you supply WiRNS with the guide information that you want it to supply to your RTVs/ So, instead of being able to pick from any number of providers from the RTV and having access to any guide information, you have to pick the provider and lineups that you want feed into WiRNS, and those are the only choices that you have on the RTVs themselves...
> 
> 
> So, I think if you look at lineup website, or even think about the fact of how the TV listings were printed in the newspapers, you'll see that there's nothing unique about the way that RTV fed guide information, and there's no reason that WiRNS can't provide the same information...
> 
> 
> Henry



First, thank you for this thorough answer.


I see your point on how WiRNS pushes while RTV units pull. I still feel like I am missing an understanding of what happens when you are setting up. Step by step, right now you select an input device, then you choose analog/digital/antenna, then you choose a service provider. After that, it attempts to connect. If the unit is connected to WiRNS, then what happens? Or are you saying that you do not even need to do this at all - WiRNS pushes the guide to the unit regardless of input setup?


One comment on listings - they are not all from the same feed. Zap2it gets its data from a different source than tvguide and titantv (which I use online). When I see a mistake on one, sometimes all three have different info for the same time/channel slot. Each also add channels at different speeds when Comcast makes a change to the lineup.


Thanks again as I need to understand this before I can spend any money on anything - subscriptions, hardware, etc.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20580527
> 
> 
> I see your point on how WiRNS pushes while RTV units pull. I still feel like I am missing an understanding of what happens when you are setting up. Step by step, right now you select an input device, then you choose analog/digital/antenna, then you choose a service provider. After that, it attempts to connect. If the unit is connected to WiRNS, then what happens? Or are you saying that you do not even need to do this at all - WiRNS pushes the guide to the unit regardless of input setup?



The RTV runs through two phases when it net connects (which you can see displayed). First it gets the provider list for your area, and then it gets the guide information for the providers that you have specifically chosen. This works by the RTV sending the configured ZIP code in the provider list request. This is what allows RTV to give you the list of providers for your area to pick from. However, WiRNS ignores the ZIP code specified and simply returns the list of providers that you have configured in WiRNS. You configure WiRNS with the list of providers by the guide feed that you choose. For example, if you use SchedulesDirect, then the providers that you select in your SD account will be what WiRNS will show. I don't have my WiRNS configured for SD right now, but if I did I could post what the log looks like showing the providers that I would have to choose from...


So, once the RTV gets the list of providers to choose from, that's what it supplies to the user interface for picking for each input. Once you pick the provider you want for each input, that's the information thats gets sent in the second phase of the net connect, where it asks for the guide data for each provider that you've chosen. So, basically WiRNS "tells" the RTV what providers are available for input selecting, and then the RTV requests the guide data for the providers that you chose from that list. The difference being that RTV will change the list of providers by you simply chaning your ZIP code configuration, versus that the list of providers in WiRNS is determined solely by the guide feed that you provide...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20580527
> 
> 
> One comment on listings - they are not all from the same feed. Zap2it gets its data from a different source than tvguide and titantv (which I use online). When I see a mistake on one, sometimes all three have different info for the same time/channel slot. Each also add channels at different speeds when Comcast makes a change to the lineup.



That is correct, but the vast majority use Tribune Media Services. I'm pretty sure that tvguide.com also uses Tribue Media Services, so it should e the same as Zap2It. I don't know about titantv, which I've never heard of...


The funny thing is that most of the video providers also use TMS or Zap2It for their own guide channels. So, what's funny is that they change their own lineup and don't notify TMS, and then when you go to their own guide channel, it has the wrong information (just as Zap2It.com or your RTV)!


Hope this helps!


Henry


----------



## Cobalt_Crysalis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20579521
> 
> 
> Looking at the logs, at some point I deleted everything older than 01/01/2006.



If you can check the log to verify that tcp/53 (NTP I assume the RTV uses) is going to ReplayTV / DNNA it'll save me a few minutes when I get home -- if it's going to a public NTP server pool that will save a bit of headache perhaps, though I figure it probably does go to DNNA...


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20579757
> 
> 
> Hi. I guess I need to ask this again because I must be confusing.



I don't think your question is confusing at all.


I just learned about this breaking news last night, and found out only by sitting down in front of my TV while eating a late dinner.


I have 5 Replays. 3 are Lifetime. 1 was an unsubbed monthly I bought for parts. 1 was a monthly I let expire (about a month ago ironically), as it was a conflict machine I could no longer make use of. It still phoned home each night, to maintain the clock, even w/o a sub. They all connect via dial-up.


This morning, I watched one of my units go through the motion (luck of the draw). Here is what the RTV displays when it net connects (via modem):


1. Initializing Modem

2. Dialing

3. Setting the clock

4. Checking Service Activation

5. Getting additional Information

6. Checking for New Channels

7. Downloading Guide Data

8. Checking for New Software

9. ReplayTV Zones Data

10. Additional Information

11. Combining Data


I guess the first big hurdle is to determine what the RTV does once it gets to #5. If the units times out and disconnects because of an error, because the server it expects to be there is no longer there, it will never get to #6, #7, and so on....


Of course, the net-connect could crash at any step once they begin dismantling the system.


Now, if they simply keep the servers in place, and pass null data such that the connection doesn't terminate, then we'd be okay, I guess.


Only time will tell.


Cheers!

-Doug



p.s. -- I can confirm that:


1. A unit that at one time had a monthly sub (but was terminated / expired), is now activated. My monthly turned itself back on an now displays "ACTIVATED". It was bugging me to update my sub and call customer service, but then after I told it to remind me later, the July 31 message came up, and the guide data is all populated again. It behaves just like my lifetimes now.


2. My lifetime units now display "ACTIVATED" only. "(one time fee paid)" is no longer displayed.


This may confirm that never-activated replays are indeed door-stops. However, a never activated ReplayTV CAN be activated if it has the EPROM from a RTV that was once activated is put in it.


----------



## sbwinter2

Henry,


That really helped me understand what happens during an input setup. Thank you and more.


So I guess the hitch now is the "setting the clock" task which will need to be changed in WiRNS in order to get to guide data (along with the mentioned "getting additional data"). Is there a way to change the DNNA as supplier of this info?


For dstoffa - just a reminder - they are not keeping the servers in place.


----------



## lnoland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20577300
> 
> 
> I started out thinking the same thing, but immediately realized that they would have two concerns. Number one, there is proprietary technology in their code, which I think they sold to DirecTV, so they may not even be in a position to reveal it. Much less that I doubt that they would want to allow their proprietary technology be used by anyone for anything. And, two, I would think they might be concerned that someone else could use their technology for making money, such as starting a subscription based guide server...
> 
> 
> Henry



Certainly, if they have sold the rights to all or part of the software, it will never be open-sourced. But the whole thing about guarding their "proprietary technology" or worrying about someone making money off their technology is just the sort of selfish, brain-dead nonsense I figured would be the principal reason it would never be open-sourced. Proprietary technology that you never use, sell, or license is just an absolute waste. You take no benefit from it yourself and allow no one else to benefit from it -- what's the point? It might make sense if the technology, even though you aren't using it, would allow someone else to compete with the products you are actively marketing, but ReplayTV is the only product of its type in DNNA's product line -- if they abandon it, why should they care what happens to it? What if someone does start a "subscription based guide server" -- if they aren't willing to do it, why should they care that someone else does?


- Les


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's why you can name/rename the manual recordings. You can rename both the recording channel itself and the individual show descriptions. I use it frequently because I find it easier to simply record NBC on Thursdays from 7:00 - 10:00 instead of worrying about if they are going to have back-to-back episodes of the same show title which requires me to create multiple recording schedules...
> 
> 
> Henry



Unless there' a hidden shortcut, I've never found a way to rename a manual recording on a Showstopper 2000, so function is miserable, best case.


Worst case, without at least a manual clock set, our RTV's are bricked, IMO.


----------



## g501

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Reden* 
Greg,


Any chance the changes Replay made dropped the requirement for the encrypted connection?


Is it a HTTPS connection? Have you tried a self-signed certificate?


What you've found doesn't sound good.










Robert
Dropping the need for an encrypted connection would require a significant code change for the software in the device, and like others here, I doubt they have the depth of experience or desire to do this (but we can hope). What's really going on is that some messages, and specifically the time, are marked with a checksum that is not practical to duplicate [ please accept this as fact if you aren't familiar with public-key cryptography, details are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElGamal_signature_scheme ]. If, on the other hand, they released the encryption key (probably a 256-bit number), then it's the same as removing the encryption requirement.


It's not HTTPS. It uses similar technology, but a different algorithms. There are no third-party certificates in the normal sense, the equivalent keys are built into the software at both ends.


What "I have found" is the due to the whole community over many years. I hope I have contributed a little myself, but not that much, relatively speaking. Lots of people have contributed to figuring things out including Henry, the late Todd Larason, Ian Prest, and many others. Personally, I am not too worried about technically sophisticated users with respect to the time-setting, but getting all the bits and pieces together as a community will be a struggle. Also, activating new units that either missed their chance or which lose their hard disk is going to be a problem since even a lifetime unit (which will remain activated just fine) needs certain data on it's local disk to stay happy (basically the registry data needs to be signed with that same encryption key).


In case of a loss of hard disk, I think it might be wise to keep a copy of the contents of your registry file so you can add it to a new disk image and make it work.


To ante up and actually provide something concrete, I am attaching a Python program (replaytv_tweaker_public) that allows you to grab the ReplayTV registry from your device by connecting over the pvtio serial port. This is not likely to be useful to that many people, but I am putting it up here for whomever wants it.


-- Greg

 

replaytv_tweaker_public.py.txt 25.7978515625k . file


----------



## jrs1432

Can anyone post a step by step method for getting a programming guide into my replay (5k) unit so that I can continue to use it after 7/31? Some have posted that using wirns and schedules direct you can continue to get full functionality. I have no idea how to use the wirns and schedules direct. I have lifetime activation and am in a panic.


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g501* /forum/post/20581435
> 
> 
> {snip}
> 
> In case of a loss of hard disk, I think it might be wise to keep a copy of the contents of your registry file so you can add it to a new disk image and make it work.
> 
> {snip}
> 
> -- Greg



Does this mean we should take the working HDDs out of our ReplayTVs and image them with RTVpatch? If we restored a machine-specific image, rather than the "I'm a virgin ReplayTV" image, to a new HDD would we avoid the need to have DNNA activation servers?


I'm not suggesting this be done this weekend, it's Father's day, but it might be something to do before July 31 as insurance against the risk the keys might not be exposed. I'd really rather take up a collection to buy the keys.


----------



## streger

Well I have three 4504 units all that were "Lifetime".

If there is a Class Action suit in there somewhere, count me in.

Stupid "lifetime" of service, company, inconvenience to provide data.

Those 4504 units all work fine --- seems their lifetime isn't up yet,

but I don't have a copy of the EULA.


I played with WiRNS off and on and just never loved it.

We have been migrating to using a Windows 7 Media Center machine on

our main TV via OTA HDTV tuners, NetFlix, and Hulu. Nearly a year now

and things are great.


My three RTV boxes had been in use via DTV set top converters and OTA.

Without the guide data I will pull their plugs -- too difficult to program

manual recordings and figure out what each it. Also, my popup notice was

slightly different from the previous so I am attaching it below.


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrs1432* /forum/post/20581434
> 
> 
> Can anyone post a step by step method for getting a programming guide into my replay (5k) unit so that I can continue to use it after 7/31? Some have posted that using wirns and schedules direct you can continue to get full functionality. I have no idea how to use the wirns and schedules direct. I have lifetime activation and am in a panic.



I expect that a step-by-step will be produced. The WIRNS solution provides at least 90% of what you need. You will need a low-end PC to run the program and probably $20/year to buy the actual data from SchedulesDirect. Most of the discussion in this thread is working on the details of the last 10%, mostly time and activation. Time was never worth the work before, because time was freely available. Activation was against our group mores, because we don't steal things here. These two items will take some time to work out, and when they are worked out (or a dead-end reached) I'm confident there will be nice FAQ entries to explain the answer.


You might be best advised to wait for the dust to settle.


----------



## dstoffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* 
For dstoffa - just a reminder - they are not keeping the servers in place.
Nor would I expect them to. What I was trying to write was that I don't even think THEY know what will happen once they pull the plug on the system. They claim you will be able to make manual recordings. I have read that the machines will still phone in to check activation and set the clock. I have also read that they are pulling the plug completely.


The Relays need to connect to something during their net connect. If the connection fails and terminates because it cannot get that 'additional information' in Step 5 or 4 or anywhere else in the cycle, then how will you be able to load guide data, even with WiRNS and Schedules Direct?


My guess is that you won't be able to. And that may be....


I am certain that tests can be done before hand, like having WiRNS proxy a connection, but block any connection to a DNNA server, and see what happens..



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## erickotz

Has anyone confirmed that the ReplayTV does (or does not) still check signing now that it's in the "Activated" state? As I understand it, Activated is a "new" state, so it's possible it disables checking.

One thing to try might be to set up WinRS, then disconnect the network from the public internet and see if the ReplayTV still updates. I plan on doing that when I find some time.


----------



## jonwz

Anybody with Showstoppers (the Panasonic logo'd R3xxx) contact Panasonic for relief?


Unlike the ReplayTV company, Panasonic is still in business and I wonder if they will do *something* to stand behind their products with lifetime activation.


Update - Panasonic still has support info online


ShowStopper® Hard Disk Recorder

888-726-2377

Hours of Operation

Mon-Fri 9:00 AM-9:00 PM, EST

Sat-Sun 10:00 AM-7:00 PM, EST


Update - I asked for tech support (they just blame everything on ReplayTV) and am now waiting for a manager.


No manager available, so I got a 7 digit case number, with the details of my complaint, and supposedly a manager will call me back (not holding my breath).


Probably a waste of time, but if enough Panasonic customers call in (you "tell" the call answer system "tech support, showstopper" then ask for a manager) maybe they will do something.



Quote:

Originally Posted by *Reden* 
I guess "lifetime" was of the company, not the unit. There has been at least two lifetimes.


----------



## cliffcor

Looks like a project to connect my backup Replays to see what happens. I have some monthly units that I want to get the lifetime level set. I will hold out hope that either a change of heart during the next few weeks on DNNA will turn the activation feature back on for a couple of spare units that I have. We'll see.


If the community is able to create an activation method, please let us go. As there is no longer any concern over 'service theft' that would be something that could be discussed I would think.


Onward into the next phase of Replay!


Cliff


----------



## edbob

I have 8 of the semi-indestructible Showstoppers with 5 currently in use and performing close to flawlessly with the exception of the IR Blasters and I am beyond mad about my "Lifetime" subscriptions falling noticeably short of "Lifetime".


If these idiots are really shutting down all the servers, I would like to know how they can claim "After this date, your Replay DVR will still be able to manually record analog TV programs" without the ability to manually set the clock? Can they really be this clueless?


A class action lawsuit, if won, at most would get us about $6.13 for each unit after about 10 years of the lawyers pumping their hours and expenses through the roof. We need a better solution, as much as I hate to pay for something twice, I would even consider a minimal annual fee to keep my Showstoppers running.


Please tech gurus, work your magic and find us a solution.


----------



## jrs1432

Quote:

Originally Posted by *RSaunders* 
I expect that a step-by-step will be produced. The WIRNS solution provides at least 90% of what you need. You will need a low-end PC to run the program and probably $20/year to buy the actual data from SchedulesDirect. Most of the discussion in this thread is working on the details of the last 10%, mostly time and activation. Time was never worth the work before, because time was freely available. Activation was against our group mores, because we don't steal things here. These two items will take some time to work out, and when they are worked out (or a dead-end reached) I'm confident there will be nice FAQ entries to explain the answer.


You might be best advised to wait for the dust to settle.
I will continue to monitor this forum for help. I have a sick feeling in my stomach over this as I do not want to go to a DTV pvr (and service) and not confident in my ability to build a pvr and/or get sucked into another windows pgm -aka media or other -sage)


----------



## GadgetGuy

I and others paid good money for "Lifetime" service. I spent good money on multiple units expecting to get more years than this out of them. Where are the lawyers? Help....


----------



## jrs1432

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jrs1432* 
I will continue to monitor this forum for help. I have a sick feeling in my stomach over this as I do not want to go to a DTV pvr (and service) and not confident in my ability to build a pvr and/or get sucked into another windows pgm -aka media or other -sage)
I just called the replaytv tech support (ha-ha) and they make no attempt to resolve or apologize for this. Sounds like Replaytv will vaporize on 7/31. They gave me a guy you can send a letter to:

Mike Begala

VP Services

DM Holdings USA Inc.

100 Corporate Dr.

Mahwah, NJ 07430


ReplayTV is owned by DirectTv - so is this some grand plan to force people to use Directtv dvr service?


----------



## jpinwv304

Hello, I am a new member and joined because I am disappointed that the service is to be stopped.


I have a Panasonic PV-HS2000 and it has worked excellent. 6 months ago the cable company switched their signal from analog to digital. To continue to use the 2000 I ran the cable to the 2000, then use the IR blaster to convert the signal to a digital CISCO Explorer, then ran cables from the CISCO to the TV.


Basically, the 2000 is the command center.


To convert to the computerized system will be more involved. I can understand the basics of how this will be done, but as mentioned within this thread, let the dust settle.


I know that I am adding very little, but I want to be added as a new member.


With best regards,

John


----------



## Cobalt_Crysalis

I imagine that the whole reason this is happening is because the revenue generated from the monthly subscriptions is no longer covering the cost required to maintain the service. I doubt there are enough of us that DTV would make enough profit to make it worth their while even if we ALL signed up.


----------



## edbob

According to the RePlay Customer Service representative named Michael at 254-299-2705, the RePlay contact person that is responsible for this shut down is Michael Begala, Vice President, at 100 Corporate Drive, Mahwah, NJ 07430.


Unfortunately Michael, the customer service representative, had no phone number for Mr. Begala, and I have not found one yet.


Michael, the customer service representative, also clarified their statement " After this date, your RePlayTV DVR will still be able to manually record analog TV programs" means that you cannot schedule recordings, you can just record something that is on "right now".


Michael, the customer service representative, was also kind enough to explain "Lifetime" to me as "not your lifetime, the lifetime of the machine". Which I am left to interpret as of July 31, 2011 they are killing my 8 Showstoppers, so they have reached the end of their life.


There seems to be a lot of Michaels involved in this FUBAR.


----------



## sbwinter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *jrs1432* 
I just called the replaytv tech support (ha-ha) and they make no attempt to resolve or apologize for this. Sounds like Replaytv will vaporize on 7/31. They gave me a guy you can send a letter to:

Mike Begala

VP Services

DM Holdings USA Inc.

100 Corporate Dr.

Mahwah, NJ 07430


ReplayTV is owned by DirectTv - so is this some grand plan to force people to use Directtv dvr service?
Actually only the NAME is owned by Directv. The tech support, servers, website, software, etc. are owned by D&M Holdings, according to what I was told and have read. While I was told that Directv said they did not want the name active any longer, when I asked if that was the cause of the operation closing, I was told "no," it was D&M. So most likely it was both.


Oh, and she said that Directv was supposed to be offering some great promotion to all the current replay owners, but I told her no one has been contacted by them (or else someone would have mentioned it here).


I personally don't care what it is called if they would be willing to sell it all so we could keep it going.


----------



## dstoffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Cobalt_Crysalis* 
I imagine that the whole reason this is happening is because the revenue generated from the monthly subscriptions is no longer covering the cost required to maintain the service. I doubt there are enough of us that DTV would make enough profit to make it worth their while even if we ALL signed up.
DTV purchased the IP of RTV as an asset to help thwart a lawsuit from Tivo, as Tivo was / is? suing E Star (aka-Dish) for patent infringement. IIRC, Tivo and RTV made agreements not to sue each other, so buy purchasing RTV, DTV gets that agreement. I do not believe for a minute DTV had any intention of servicing the existing customer base.


DNNA is giving it up because it's probably a money loser for them now...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## dstoffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *edbob* 
According to the RePlay Customer Service representative named Michael at 254-299-2705, the RePlay contact person that is responsible for this shut down is Michael Begala, Vice President, at 100 Corporate Drive, Mahwah, NJ 07430.
It's right off NJ-17, just south of the interchange with I-287/I-87. I drive by often on my way upstate (NY).

Quote:

Michael, the customer service representative, was also kind enough to explain "Lifetime" to me as "not your lifetime, the lifetime of the machine". Which I am left to interpret as of July 31, 2011 they are killing my 8 Showstoppers, so they have reached the end of their life.
I am beginning to feel like those Series 1 Tivo users in the UK.....


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## frankl69

After scanning this discussion, it seems that all potential solutions relate to PC users. Does anyone have a suggestion for a lifetime Mac user, other than "get a PC"?


Frank


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* 
So I guess the hitch now is the "setting the clock" task which will need to be changed in WiRNS in order to get to guide data (along with the mentioned "getting additional data"). Is there a way to change the DNNA as supplier of this info?
This was never a hitch and you can configure WiRNS to get the time from any time server, not just DNNA...


Just to let you know, WiRNS handles almost all of the steps that Doug posted. Pretty much the only one it doesn't handle/can't handle is the "checking activation" step. But, I'm confident that this will be worked out in the long run. People already run WiRNS without any connection to DNNA at all, so except for some initial setup, it may not be a problem at all if DNNA shuts down all their servers...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *gring40* 
Unless there' a hidden shortcut, I've never found a way to rename a manual recording on a Showstopper 2000, so function is miserable, best case.
I'd have to check on my 3K, but I've only really played with it on a 5K, so I don't know if the feature exists on the older models or not...

Quote:

Originally Posted by *gring40* 
Worst case, without at least a manual clock set, our RTV's are bricked, IMO.
There is a manual clock set control panel that you can install depending on the version of firmware that you have. This is only for the older units, so that might take care of at least that problem for you...


Henry


----------



## Patches

Quote:

Originally Posted by *frankl69* 
After scanning this discussion, it seems that all potential solutions relate to PC users. Does anyone have a suggestion for a lifetime Mac user, other than "get a PC"?


Frank
Mac Users,


If you want to use WIRNS, you have to have a Windows machine. WIRNS uses .NET 2.0 and there is nothing that will translate that for OS X that I have found.


A Windows machine, though, does not mean more hardware. A Windows virtual machine can run inside your Mac. Check out Parallels or VMWare Fusion . Both do about the same thing.


You will install Windows on it just like you have a separate PC. Then you can install WIRNS or whatever. And you can use an old copy of XP you have lying around, you don't have to install Windows 7.


Mike


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *RSaunders* 
Quote:

Originally Posted by *g501* 
{snip}

In case of a loss of hard disk, I think it might be wise to keep a copy of the contents of your registry file so you can add it to a new disk image and make it work.

{snip}

-- Greg
Does this mean we should take the working HDDs out of our ReplayTVs and image them with RTVpatch? If we restored a machine-specific image, rather than the "I'm a virgin ReplayTV" image, to a new HDD would we avoid the need to have DNNA activation servers?


I'm not suggesting this be done this weekend, it's Father's day, but it might be something to do before July 31 as insurance against the risk the keys might not be exposed. I'd really rather take up a collection to buy the keys.
The registry information is specific to the unit, so Greg's advice is only good for preserving keeping each individual unit activated. And, I think that using RTVPatch to backup each unit's image would work just as well, but use more disk storage. However, probably easier than having to backup and restore the individual unit's registry information...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dstoffa* 
The Relays need to connect to something during their net connect. If the connection fails and terminates because it cannot get that 'additional information' in Step 5 or 4 or anywhere else in the cycle, then how will you be able to load guide data, even with WiRNS and Schedules Direct?


My guess is that you won't be able to. And that may be....


I am certain that tests can be done before hand, like having WiRNS proxy a connection, but block any connection to a DNNA server, and see what happens..
WiRNS specifically handles all the steps except for the activation step, so that's no a problem. In addition, WiRNS runs just fine without a connection to the DNNA server...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *erickotz* 
Has anyone confirmed that the ReplayTV does (or does not) still check signing now that it's in the "Activated" state? As I understand it, Activated is a "new" state, so it's possible it disables checking.

One thing to try might be to set up WinRS, then disconnect the network from the public internet and see if the ReplayTV still updates. I plan on doing that when I find some time.
These are not states, just words. There's only one activated state, and it's still signed. The text that you see is just that and has nothing to do with the activation itself...


When you run your experiment you should find that that the RTV still updates just fine without the Internet. And, it should continue to do that as long as the unit stays activated...


Henry


----------



## RSaunders

Quote:

Originally Posted by *frankl69* 
After scanning this discussion, it seems that all potential solutions relate to PC users. Does anyone have a suggestion for a lifetime Mac user, other than "get a PC"?


Frank
Frank, you're really not going to get much use out of a machine that's running WIRNS. Think of it as a toaster that you have to keep plugged in and connected to your network or the ReplayTV guide won't update. Who cares that their toaster runs Windoze? As a long time Mac user, I had to use a low end PC years ago to replace my ReplayTV HDDs. Now it get's to stay plugged in all the time instead of just one weekend a year.


On a related note, the WIRNS support for time has been clarified over at the WIRNS forum on PlanetReplay. The time values are not signed, and tests have demonstrated that you can use ordinary NTP servers instead of the DNNA ones. That makes WIRNS more of a 97% solution.


----------



## sbwinter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hdonzis* 
When you run your experiment you should find that that the RTV still updates just fine without the Internet. And, it should continue to do that as long as the unit stays activated...


Henry
Hi.


Can you explain what you mean by "updates without the internet?" My replays will not update anything without connecting first via the internet.


----------



## sbwinter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Patches* 
Mac Users,


If you want to use WIRNS, you have to have a Windows machine. WIRNS uses .NET 2.0 and there is nothing that will translate that for OS X that I have found.


A Windows machine, though, does not mean more hardware. A Windows virtual machine can run inside your Mac. Check out Parallels or VMWare Fusion . Both do about the same thing.


You will install Windows on it just like you have a separate PC. Then you can install WIRNS or whatever. And you can use an old copy of XP you have lying around, you don't have to install Windows 7.


Mike
I already have Mac on bootcamp/fusion on an Imac. I have Dvarchive loaded on both partitions too. They sort of share an IP such that if I use wired or wireless in bootcamp, they share the same cards, but if I use fusion, I can choose to get a separate IP while on the Mac side. That said, how would I set up WiRNS to not conflict with DVArchive (I guess only the windows version, but would it conflict with the Mac version if I was using fusion?)? Do I have to set up static IPs for everything that can possibly get an IP on that computer?


----------



## glenburg

I have used wirns for years, now on a little netbook, i boot into windows once a day. update wirns guides, then force connects on my two replays and turn off the windows machine until the next day, sometimes i let 2 or 3 days go by until i do it again. by no means do you need a windows machine up all the time to keep the replays going. you will get 'could not connect' messages every day, but they work just fine. i am concerned about the daily connect process faulting out somehwere if the replay servers are completely gone. i will test that next week by just updating my wirns guides as usual, then unplugging my cable modem and force a connect and see what happens. the time will fault out, but if the rest works then would be a good sign that wirns can allow the replays to go on.


----------



## mattw22

I called Replay support because I have two extra 5000's series I never activated. They told me that even though the units aren't activated they will be able to manual record after July 31st. They also said (which I'm skeptical) that the time servers at Replay will still be intact after July 31st it's just the program data going away.


----------



## gatomon

I think the question of survival of Replaytv after July 31 will come down to the encryption keys. This group has all the pieces except for the functions that were introduced with the model 5xxx's.


A bit of history. Prior to the 5xxx's, all units were "lifetime", so no encryption was needed. To compete with Tivo, which sold the boxes cheaper by having monthly fees, ReplayTV introduced a two tier system. Once you bought the box, you could upgrade to "lifetime" or pay a monthly fee. In order to keep people from thwarting this system, encryption was introduced to provide authorization and activation. From what I've read, they used "ElGamal encryption and/or signature scheme" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElGamal_signature_scheme and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElGamal_encryption ). They didn't invent this nor do they own it. (As it happens, I've met the inventor and I'm a friend of his brother who is a Professor at Stanford). It's purpose was to keep un-activated boxes from being activated by a third party and to keep monthly customers from getting "lifetime" without paying the fee.


I think that life after July 31 will mostly depend on finding the "private" encryption key(s). Since Replaytv has stopped selling service, it is now not a "theft of service" to obtain these keys. Unless someone somehow figures out the key(s) (it's possible some out there has done this), the only way would be to get the owners, or someone with access, to reveal the key(s). This would not compromise any IP or such and would be clearly the right thing to do.


Will they? I don't know. They should, but they have not been very forthcoming so far. I think we as a community (1) ask for the key(s), (2) offer a token payment to "buy" the keys, (3) pursue a lawsuit to put pressure on them to do the right thing if they are uncooperative.


-Chris










PS: It's ironic that our respect for "theft of service" has put us in a spot at this stage.


----------



## sbwinter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mattw22* 
I called Replay support because I have two extra 5000's series I never activated. They told me that even though the units aren't activated they will be able to manual record after July 31st. They also said (which I'm skeptical) that the time servers at Replay will still be intact after July 31st it's just the program data going away.
Most of us were told everything was going down because they are closing Replay down for good (I was told so far by two different reps). No servers providing anything - time or otherwise.


----------



## jpinwv304

The company must issue a reason for this action. Simply to state that they are shuting down is not good enough. Are they going bankrupt, being bought, merging, or what?


Of the term lifetime, it means the life of the company, which ends July 31.


I am certain a company representative is reviewing this thread, and do hope he sees the large and growing concern from customers over the company's poor actions.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frankl69* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After scanning this discussion, it seems that all potential solutions relate to PC users. Does anyone have a suggestion for a lifetime Mac user, other than "get a PC"?
> 
> 
> Frank



Have a look at EyeTV; the software seems great, and my (hardware encoding) tuner is doing a decent job.


----------



## jptsetme

It's been a long time since I visited this forum or used a ReplayTV, but my sister-in-law has an old one of mine and I was stopping by to see what the conversation looked like.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20582138
> 
> 
> This was never a hitch and you can configure WiRNS to get the time from any time server, not just DNNA...
> 
> 
> Just to let you know, WiRNS handles almost all of the steps that Doug posted. Pretty much the only one it doesn't handle/can't handle is the "checking activation" step. But, I'm confident that this will be worked out in the long run. People already run WiRNS without any connection to DNNA at all, so except for some initial setup, it may not be a problem at all if DNNA shuts down all their servers...
> 
> 
> Henry



I'm a little alarmed at this comment, because I don't want people to have a false sense of security about what happens in August. WiRNS may be able to get the time from any time server, but it can't provide the time to a 4xxx/5xxx series ReplayTV to cause it to set the time on the device. That message is signed and can't be faked by WiRNS unless the key is released, and the API to set the clock is not available via command line. Since the 4.3 software release over 5 years ago, the 4xxx/5xxx boxes have used the inability to set the clock as part of their security feature to prevent people from buying the subsidized units and not paying a monthly subscription. No one has found a way to manually set the clock on a 4xxx/5xx unit with the 4.3 or newer software (and going back to 4.1 software requires reprogramming the non-socketed EEPROM). And without the ability to set the clock on the device, drifting/power outage/etc will turn the 4xxx/5xxx series boxes into digital VCRs with the clock forever blinking (i.e. you can start recording what's on, but you can't even program a manual recording because the time will be wrong.)


There is good reason for 4xxx/5xxx owners to be alarmed by this and to raise a stink now rather than waiting until the servers are turned off. I'm confidant that if the key is released, the WiRNS team could put together a working solution, but if it is not (and so far D&M Holdings have not said that they will), I expect all 4xxx / 5xxx boxes will be nearly unusable due to the clock.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I'd have to check on my 3K, but I've only really played with it on a 5K, so I don't know if the feature exists on the older models or not...
> 
> 
> There is a manual clock set control panel that you can install depending on the version of firmware that you have. This is only for the older units, so that might take care of at least that problem for you...
> 
> 
> Henry



A link to the manual clock set control panel software would be great (not that I know how it might be installed.) Thanks


----------



## terabid

I have done the following tests.

1: Kill the power. That resets the time to 0:00 of Nov12 1999. It also makes the guide unavailable. It does, however, permit me to use the RF Blaster.

2: Clear the Guide. When I do that time is still OK but RF Blaster doesn't work.

3: Without an accurate guide and accurate time the Record function is useless.


So my hope is that since they store the cable company info in ROM rather than RAM I might be able to use the RF Blaster as long as I never do a clear of the Guide. As for the clock - the first power outage will reset it and then the only way I can do a recording is to see what the current clock setting is and do some fancy arithmetic. I am presuming also that each night I will get an alarm that I was unable to get through to the network. I doubt pulling the telephone jack will help. Ugly situation.


----------



## notyoung




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jptsetme* /forum/post/20582670
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a little alarmed at this comment, because I don't want people to have a false sense of security about what happens in August. WiRNS may be able to get the time from any time server, but it can't provide the time to a 4xxx/5xxx series ReplayTV to cause it to set the time on the device. That message is signed and can't be faked by WiRNS unless the key is released, and the API to set the clock is not available via command line. Since the 4.3 software release over 5 years ago, the 4xxx/5xxx boxes have used the inability to set the clock as part of their security feature to prevent people from buying the subsidized units and not paying a monthly subscription. No one has found a way to manually set the clock on a 4xxx/5xx unit with the 4.3 or newer software (and going back to 4.1 software requires reprogramming the non-socketed EEPROM). And without the ability to set the clock on the device, drifting/power outage/etc will turn the 4xxx/5xxx series boxes into digital VCRs with the clock forever blinking (i.e. you can start recording what's on, but you can't even program a manual recording because the time will be wrong.)



Wow, that sounds bad!


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20582316
> 
> 
> Can you explain what you mean by "updates without the internet?" My replays will not update anything without connecting first via the internet.



Actually, that's only true because the update server that you are currently using is out on the Internet. When you run WiRNS in your home, then you have brought the update server into your home and you no longer need the Internet for your RTVs to connect to it...


Henry


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terabid* /forum/post/20582820
> 
> 
> I have done the following tests.
> 
> 1: Kill the power. That resets the time to 0:00 of Nov12 1999. It also makes the guide unavailable. It does, however, permit me to use the RF Blaster.
> 
> 2: Clear the Guide. When I do that time is still OK but RF Blaster doesn't work.
> 
> 3: Without an accurate guide and accurate time the Record function is useless.
> 
> 
> So my hope is that since they store the cable company info in ROM rather than RAM I might be able to use the RF Blaster as long as I never do a clear of the Guide. As for the clock - the first power outage will reset it and then the only way I can do a recording is to see what the current clock setting is and do some fancy arithmetic. I am presuming also that each night I will get an alarm that I was unable to get through to the network. I doubt pulling the telephone jack will help. Ugly situation.



How does killing the power reset the clock? I have an extra unit that sits without power for weeks and doesn't loose the clock.


----------



## fredwinters

I just got notice of this today and just have to say that i am less than pleased.

Manual Record = bricked Replaytv


Like they say, all good things must come to an end.

RIP replaytv


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenburg* /forum/post/20582344
> 
> 
> the time will fault out, but if the rest works then would be a good sign that wirns can allow the replays to go on.



That's a good point! I guess the people using WiRNS without an Internet connection must have an NTP server running somewhere that they can connect to. If the RTV can't get the time, then it will fail the net connect...


Although, that said, I guess the correct thing I should have said is that it will say that there were errors net connecting. Whether it will still update the guide with the new information, or throw everything away because it couldn't set the time, I never checked...


Henry


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20582947
> 
> 
> How does killing the power reset the clock? I have an extra unit that sits without power for weeks and doesn't loose the clock.



His motherboard battery (or capacitor, not sure which) is dead.


If only that was the worst of his problems










Robert


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20582680
> 
> 
> A link to the manual clock set control panel software would be great (not that I know how it might be installed.) Thanks



Searching, I found it here . Although, that's not where I remember finding it previously, so there may be other places...


Henry


----------



## notyoung




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20583041
> 
> 
> Searching, I found it here . Although, that's not where I remember finding it previously, so there may be other places...
> 
> 
> Henry



Here's some information describing its use. I'm not quite sure that I understand it though (post #9)

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=493046 


I think it only works on older units
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=508377


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20582394
> 
> 
> I think the question of survival of Replaytv after July 31 will come down to the encryption keys. This group has all the pieces except for the functions that were introduced with the model 5xxx's.
> 
> 
> A bit of history. Prior to the 5xxx's, all units were "lifetime", so no encryption was needed. To compete with Tivo, which sold the boxes cheaper by having monthly fees, ReplayTV introduced a two tier system. Once you bought the box, you could upgrade to "lifetime" or pay a monthly fee. In order to keep people from thwarting this system, encryption was introduced to provide authorization and activation. From what I've read, they used "ElGamal encryption and/or signature scheme" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElGamal_signature_scheme and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ElGamal_encryption ). They didn't invent this nor do they own it. (As it happens, I've met the inventor and I'm a friend of his brother who is a Professor at Stanford). It's purpose was to keep un-activated boxes from being activated by a third party and to keep monthly customers from getting "lifetime" without paying the fee.
> 
> 
> I think that life after July 31 will mostly depend on finding the "private" encryption key(s). Since Replaytv has stopped selling service, it is now not a "theft of service" to obtain these keys. Unless someone somehow figures out the key(s) (it's possible some out there has done this), the only way would be to get the owners, or someone with access, to reveal the key(s). This would not compromise any IP or such and would be clearly the right thing to do.
> 
> 
> Will they? I don't know. They should, but they have not been very forthcoming so far. I think we as a community (1) ask for the key(s), (2) offer a token payment to "buy" the keys, (3) pursue a lawsuit to put pressure on them to do the right thing if they are uncooperative.
> 
> 
> -Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: It's ironic that our respect for "theft of service" has put us in a spot at this stage.



Does anyone know how many bits the key is? Keeping in mind the code used for this is almost 15 years old now, it's very possible that it would be feasible to brute-force this key on a small cluster of modern hardware.


----------



## jweinel

I reported in another thread that I have two 5040 units, refurbs, not activated (also two 5040's under daily use). Yesterday, I tested the two refurbs and both were recognized by the service as non-activated. although one did initialize it's 10-day, free trial period.


Today, I tried the refurbs again. The one in the trial period net connected and reported that new software was available. I accepted the software update and noted that it updated to the current version 530511440. But I also noted that it was now "Activated"! I connected the second unit and it still displayed the screen stating that the unit had to be activated. I clicked "Connect Now" and it talked to the mothership and reported activation as successful. I confirmed that the unit could in fact access the guide and cable input channels and does in fact appear to be activated.


----------



## notyoung




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20583375
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how many bits the key is? Keeping in mind the code used for this is almost 15 years old now, it's very possible that it would be feasible to brute-force this key on a small cluster of modern hardware.



I saw this link earlier today;
http://www.wirns.com/twiki/FileVerification 

Does that answer your question?


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frankl69* /forum/post/20582096
> 
> 
> After scanning this discussion, it seems that all potential solutions relate to PC users. Does anyone have a suggestion for a lifetime Mac user, other than "get a PC"?
> 
> 
> Frank



Ummmm....put a Windows machine on your Mac as a virtual machine, and go to town. Launch it as necessary for WiRNS to do its thing, then quit it when that's done. Lather, rinse, repeat.


I'm a lifetime Mac user (well, the lifetime of Macintosh--see, there's that nebulous term "lifetime" again) and don't have a problem seeing that a computer operating system is a tool, not a lifestyle or a devotion. Many things happen in Windows that are wonderful and good and make me happy, so I use Windows for those things. I use Macintosh for others.


But hanging on to "I'm a devoted Macintosh man and therefore must by definition hate Windows, therefore I cannot under any circumstance run Windows for any reason whatsoever" is just silly. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face.


I suggest if you want your life to be like that, that you get a Mini and EyeTV, for example, or Sage, or whatever.


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20582482
> 
> 
> The company must issue a reason for this action. Simply to state that they are shuting down is not good enough.



Ummmmm....yes it is.


What do you think anyone in this world owes you? Do you think you're ENTITLED to know what anyone is thinking at any given time?


Their reasons are THEIR reasons, and you are not ENTITLED to know anything about their reasons.


Wow.


----------



## truckie36




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jweinel* /forum/post/20583409
> 
> 
> I reported in another thread that I have two 5040 units, refurbs, not activated (also two 5040's under daily use). Yesterday, I tested the two refurbs and both were recognized by the service as non-activated. although one did initialize it's 10-day, free trial period.
> 
> 
> Today, I tried the refurbs again. The one in the trial period net connected and reported that new software was available. I accepted the software update and noted that it updated to the current version 530511440. But I also noted that it was now "Activated"! I connected the second unit and it still displayed the screen stating that the unit had to be activated. I clicked "Connect Now" and it talked to the mothership and reported activation as successful. I confirmed that the unit could in fact access the guide and cable input channels and does in fact appear to be activated.



After reading this I hooked one of my never activated bricks and after a net connect with the mother ship, it is Activated.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Searching, I found it here . Although, that's not where I remember finding it previously, so there may be other places...
> 
> 
> Henry



Perfect; many thanks. I think I could do that. OTOH, I'm half-way towards making EyeTV do it all for me, scandalous as that sounds


----------



## erickotz

So there's two ways to approach this:

#1. Get the private key used by the ReplayTV for signing. From what I know, this is impractical to brute-force. This means getting someone from ReplayTV to release it. From a practical standpoint, this key is useless to them now, so there's no reason they shouldn't release it, but they probably won't. That said, if anyone has any contacts, please ask them - getting this would be awesome. I just pinged someone I know that used to work there, but I doubt he still has any contacts.


#2. Hack the signing checks. I was just chatting with a friend about this, and hacking the checks shouldn't be too hard, however, we have to change the software on the unit. Given this unit has an old version of VxWorks, we did a quick check and found a few known vulnerabilities that had MetaSploit support. The thought there would be to use a VxWorks exploit to make a payload to drop on the ReplayTV which patches the signing checks.


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Patches* /forum/post/20582189
> 
> 
> Mac Users,
> 
> 
> If you want to use WIRNS, you have to have a Windows machine. WIRNS uses .NET 2.0 and there is nothing that will translate that for OS X that I have found.
> 
> 
> A Windows machine, though, does not mean more hardware. A Windows virtual machine can run inside your Mac. Check out Parallels or VMWare Fusion . Both do about the same thing.
> 
> 
> You will install Windows on it just like you have a separate PC. Then you can install WIRNS or whatever. And you can use an old copy of XP you have lying around, you don't have to install Windows 7.
> 
> 
> Mike



The solution based on perl scripts is compatible with OS X and other UNIX-like systems, but it's not nearly as pretty as WiRNS in terms of the user interface.


Greg


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20583636
> 
> 
> So there's two ways to approach this:
> 
> #1. Get the private key used by the ReplayTV for signing. From what I know, this is impractical to brute-force. This means getting someone from ReplayTV to release it. From a practical standpoint, this key is useless to them now, so there's no reason they shouldn't release it, but they probably won't. That said, if anyone has any contacts, please ask them - getting this would be awesome. I just pinged someone I know that used to work there, but I doubt he still has any contacts.
> 
> 
> #2. Hack the signing checks. I was just chatting with a friend about this, and hacking the checks shouldn't be too hard, however, we have to change the software on the unit. Given this unit has an old version of VxWorks, we did a quick check and found a few known vulnerabilities that had MetaSploit support. The thought there would be to use a VxWorks exploit to make a payload to drop on the ReplayTV which patches the signing checks.




This is a very reasonable suggestion. (Note that this thread could get kind of technical and maybe should be split from the generic "How do I run a WIRNS server thread.)


The problem is that all the code that runs on the 5000+ series, as well as the files that describe the graphical interface are *signed* code (i.e. El Gamal signatures again, a still-secure "serious" algorithm). Moreover, the first stage of the validation is in the firmware in ROM: it loads a binary called "ptv.bin" which is signed too. Thus, to hack out the signing checks by just modding the software you need to edit the ROM, which in many units means desoldering a surface-mount component. That is not to say it can't be done, but it might be much uglier that just zapping the check in the software and reloading to disk.


I think there is reason to believe there might be another solution, but in the world of the DMCA, the far preferable way to go would be to just have DNNA, or a past developer, or somebody, release the private key value. I think they have nothing to lose, not even IP.


Note, by the way, that for the 5000-series, the clock setting panel mod from flipflop cannot be used (it was for the 3000-series) and also despite the suggestions from the normally-knowledgable RSaunders, it still looks to me that the time setting in vtime.pl is signed (i.e. encrypted). Henry seems to corroborate this. Older models (e.g 3000) used plain NTP (network time protocol) without authentication; that's described in some of the documentation from the olden days. I do not think clock drift is too bad, but (a) it can build up over time and (b) if the unit is left off the clock chip is totally reset.


----------



## KwadGuy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonwz* /forum/post/20581591
> 
> 
> Anybody with Showstoppers (the Panasonic logo'd R3xxx) contact Panasonic for relief?
> 
> 
> Unlike the ReplayTV company, Panasonic is still in business and I wonder if they will do *something* to stand behind their products with lifetime activation.
> 
> 
> Update - Panasonic still has support info online
> 
> 
> ShowStopper® Hard Disk Recorder
> 
> 888-726-2377
> 
> Hours of Operation
> 
> Mon-Fri 9:00 AM-9:00 PM, EST
> 
> Sat-Sun 10:00 AM-7:00 PM, EST
> 
> 
> Update - I asked for tech support (they just blame everything on ReplayTV) and am now waiting for a manager.
> 
> 
> No manager available, so I got a 7 digit case number, with the details of my complaint, and supposedly a manager will call me back (not holding my breath).
> 
> 
> Probably a waste of time, but if enough Panasonic customers call in (you "tell" the call answer system "tech support, showstopper" then ask for a manager) maybe they will do something.



If anyone actually talks to someone at Panasonic about this, please report here what they say. I am guessing they'll just push the ball back to Replay. But it isn't Replay's name on the device...so they should have to do better than that...(but I doubt they will).


----------



## erickotz

If we can get a kernel exploit, we would be able to get around the signing checks (as the kernel is already running, there's no need to patch the boot ROM), which could either do two things:

1. Fire the payload every boot - no need to patch the boot rom

2. Patch the boot ROM. Aside from the logistics of flashing this, this isn't hard. My *GUESS* is this is programmable in-circuit (can anyone confirm/deny) - if so, this can still be automated.


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20584116
> 
> 
> If we can get a kernel exploit, we would be able to get around the signing checks (as the kernel is already running, there's no need to patch the boot ROM), which could either do two things:
> 
> 1. Fire the payload every boot - no need to patch the boot rom
> 
> 2. Patch the boot ROM. Aside from the logistics of flashing this, this isn't hard. My *GUESS* is this is programmable in-circuit (can anyone confirm/deny) - if so, this can still be automated.



Re. 2: There is a module called RomUpdate that can be executed manually. I allows you to load a (new) ROM image. I once considered messing with it, and got as far as changing the ROM version number, but was afraid of making a mistake and ending up with a ruined box.


When run, it produces a result something like:


Used file /name/system/sys2/Platform/Plymouth/ROM/rom_2.bin

romCompareVersions(): romMinVer = 49 fileMinVer = 49; => No Update

romUpdate(): Rom was not updated because file was not newer than ROM



As far as I know it doesn't do any signature checks, but if they were an thorough as they are everywhere else, there might be one. On the other hand, it does mention that one of the functions it tries to use is "not yet implemented."


----------



## erickotz

Does anyone have a copy of the ROM image handy? I don't have a hacked RTV handy (I have one in my basement I'll have to plug in, this is for my parents that have 3-4 of them)


----------



## jptsetme

I like this idea a lot.


It seems quite plausible that there are buffer overflow vulnerabilities in some of the shell commands. If we could identify a buffer overflow vulnerability, we could craft a payload to pass via commandline (sent to the replay to execute as part of the getshellcmds.pl response from RNS which WiRNS will be proxying). Then we just craft the payload to contain the instructions to call the set time API (which can presumably be taken from the existing binary that calls it when the signature check is validated).


I say "we", but I don't even have a Replay anymore. Still interesting to talk about.


All of this is far less favorable than D&M releasing the keys (a decision they are undoubtedly reconsidering right now). *Please keep calling to complain*, and be sure to let them know that you purchased a "product lifetime subscription fee" (as seen here until they take it down, though it's cached as well.) If they understand that releasing the keys will discourage many existing users from joining in a lawsuit, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to release them.


----------



## adam1991

Lawsuit? Against WHAT? Against WHOM?


Grow up, boys and girls. This is the real world. Replay isn't the first to sell "lifetime" things without defining "lifetime," and they won't be the last. "Lifetime" is used as a casual term of convenience when putting that choice into context against the alternate "pay us every month" choice.


What's more, you knew that going in. Don't play dumb now and claim that you HONESTLY expected the Replay service to be alive and well the day you died.


There will be no lawsuits, only people who are unhappy that "lifetime" doesn't mean THEIR lifetimes. And D&M is no doubt NOT reconsidering any bit of this because of fifteen people on an obscure forum. We don't factor into their decision in this matter at all, not one tiny bit.


The D&M train has started rolling down the tracks and nothing can or will get in its way. If the user community can rescue people from being run over by that train, great--but the train will continue rolling and picking up speed no matter how many gnats of the user community swarm around the train.


Think of Replay as a trendy store selling trendy, overpriced clothes for young people. Further, as a sales pitch they swore you would always for the rest of your life come back to buy compatible and matching clothes and accessories, so that your wardrobe NEVER wears out or goes out of style FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Suddenly, they don't want to be in business anymore. Are they ALLOWED to do this? Hell yes! Do they OWE anyone a reason as to why they're closing? No, they do not--even if that person is demanding an explanation as to why he can't keep going back for matching clothes FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.


While going out of business and closing their store, they threw their now-unwanted product into the dumpster--and now we're all looking to dumpster dive. The problem is, for whatever reason they stained the clothes with dye--and it's up to the user community to see if we can come up with a method to remove the dye and get usefulness out of the clothes that the company decided they didn't want or want to sell anymore.


You wouldn't think twice about suing the clothing store for DARING to go out of business, but yet here's all this talk about how DARE Replay go out of business and WE MUST SUE!


Let's all suck it up and be adult about this. Take it for what it is, grieve if you must, but accept it and move on.


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20584187
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a copy of the ROM image handy? I don't have a hacked RTV handy (I have one in my basement I'll have to plug in, this is for my parents that have 3-4 of them)



The ROM image can be found on the RTV file system or disk image in the file


/name/system/sys2/Platform/Plymouth/ROM/rom_2.bin


and it is signed (all the signature files end with ".g2").



- 8k 152 6/03/2011 04:49:04.153 rom_2.bin.g2

- 376k 380656 6/03/2011 04:49:01.072 rom_2.bin


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Adam, as one of the people ticked off and willing to sue, i certainly DID expect the lifetime subscriptions to last as long as my replays hardware continued to function properly.


And your analogy is off. The more correct example is buying a waterheater or furnace and buying 20 year survice plan with the installer to maintain it. Then having the installer sell his business to someone else who after a few years stops honoring the agreements of the company he bought. And now you're hosed with a furnace that should have another 10 years of maintenance service but doesn't and now it's not functioning at 100%. A two stage furnace only firing up one of the two stages.


Dirctv bought replaytv and now is suppose to honor those agreements replaytv/sonicblue made.


----------



## lbjack

Now that Replay is about to end support I'm thinking: It's been great, Thanks very much, Time to move on. Instead of going through all the contortions, why not just spring for a TiVo or other DVR?


Beyond the out-of-pocket, are the advantages of Replay over other DVRs compelling enough to justify the hassle of moving to WiRNS and a scheduler to keep my Replay fully functional?


----------



## SeeSpotRun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20584334
> 
> 
> Lawsuit? Against WHAT? Against WHOM?
> 
> 
> Grow up, boys and girls. This is the real world. Replay isn't the first to sell "lifetime" things without defining "lifetime," and they won't be the last. "Lifetime" is used as a casual term of convenience when putting that choice into context against the alternate "pay us every month" choice.
> 
> 
> What's more, you knew that going in. Don't play dumb now and claim that you HONESTLY expected the Replay service to be alive and well the day you died.
> 
> 
> [snip]



That is quite a "grow up and take it like a man" speech.


I am a lawyer and here is my take on this. Note: While I am a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer so this is merely my opinion and not legal advice.


The defendant here would be DNNA. In looking at their agreement, any lawsuit would need to be filed in Santa Clara County, California. Ideally, it would be a class action suit filed in Federal District Court at San Jose, which is part of the Northern District of California. Several representative plaintiffs would be needed from any state other than California to create Diversity Jurisdiction.


The real problem is money (damages). How could you put a number on your damages? The most damages could possibly be would be $300 per working unit, though I would expect it to be prorated such that the amount would be a lot less. (Think tradein credit when your 5 year old battery with a 6 year warranty.) So if you do the math, how much money could we possibly be talking about? To be in Federal Court, either a single plaintiff would need to have $75,000 in damages or all plaintiffs need a total of $5 million in damages. That would mean you would need a single person with 250 replays or people owning a total of 16,667 replays (did they even sell that many?). So it sounds like Federal Court is out and we would be stuck in State Court. I'm not a California lawyer so I can't say how the class action rules are in California but I can say that in Federal Court, if the plaintiff group gets class certification under Federal Rule of Procedure 23, that the Court must approve the settlement, the lawyers get rich, and the defendant is out a lot of money.


Anyway, this is a simple case of breach of contract. As shown on their web site "The current monthly subscription fee is $12.95 and the one-time service activation option for the lifetime of your ReplayTV unit is $299." So, lifetime is not my lifetime, it is the lifetime of my unit.


In their defense, they are going to say that since your unit is now permanently "activated", that you got your lifetime service while I'd have to argue that the unit is only useful for its intended purpose when supplied with the guide data.


Bottom line, a group lawsuit is unlikely unless there happens to be a Santa Clara lawyer who is upset enough about this to spearhead a lawsuit as there isn't likely to be any money for a long time. On the other hand, a number of small claims cases might get their attention. At least here, corporations need to be represented by attorneys so any suit filed against a corporation here costs them at least $1000 to get an attorney to review the legal papers and show up in court.


If DNNA was smart, they would just release the keys and enough code so someone else can either make a free guide data program or start their own service providing guide data.


SeeSpotRun


----------



## jonwz

Very well stated Walt, thank you.


Even more insane is Panasonic, a thriving company that sold showstoppers with lifetime service, now claiming that well, it's not us, but our supplier.


And this crap that the HDTV migration has left these units behind? A while back the NY Times did an article about the virtues of uncompressed Over the AIR HTDV received by the DTV converters. I've got one Showstopper hooked to a Channel Master DTV converter. Great crisp digital picture.


The HDTV migration screwed up my standard cable service (postage stamp), but gives me the best video I've ever experienced on my legacy PVR's from OTA Network TV reception.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20584400
> 
> 
> Adam, as one of the people ticked off and willing to sue, i certainly DID expect the lifetime subscriptions to last as long as my replays hardware continued to function properly.
> 
> 
> And your analogy is off. The more correct example is buying a waterheater or furnace and buying 20 year survice plan with the installer to maintain it. Then having the installer sell his business to someone else who after a few years stops honoring the agreements of the company he bought. And now you're hosed with a furnace that should have another 10 years of maintenance service but doesn't and now it's not functioning at 100%. A two stage furnace only firing up one of the two stages.
> 
> 
> Dirctv bought replaytv and now is suppose to honor those agreements replaytv/sonicblue made.


----------



## jlv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gfmrtv* /forum/post/20573604
> 
> 
> A screenshot of the actual message that's popping up on the Replay is attached.



Hmmm... they didn't even proofread it. It's missing an open-paren on the first line.


----------



## RChobby

With their current note about using it to manually record:


Is that true, if the clock can't be set?


Perhaps that is another tact to get them to release the information.


----------



## ChampaignWalt

seespotrun, I'd want the whole $299 plus the cost of every working replay since those are also now worthless. And you can't really prorate lifetime because it's quite possible to keep these things working indefinielty given enough spare parts.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lbjack* /forum/post/20584431
> 
> 
> Now that Replay is about to end support I'm thinking: It's been great, Thanks very much, Time to move on. Instead of going through all the contortions, why not just spring for a TiVo or other DVR?
> 
> 
> Beyond the out-of-pocket, are the advantages of Replay over other DVRs compelling enough to justify the hassle of moving to WiRNS and a scheduler to keep my Replay fully functional?



I am trying to compare other DVRs and here is what I have found as major losses:


Moxi - I have only just learned about the Moxi which is ridiculously expensive up front and gets so-so reviews. Another aspect they consider a plus, but I do not is that it has three tuners, so you can record three shows at a time and then stream to the non-dvr boxes in other rooms. I don't like this because if that box goes down, you are left with nothing. I have three ReplayTVs so if something happens to one, I have others. Or if I want to record the exact same shows on two at the same time (which I have only done as a backup in case something weird happened with one unit - it happens), I can. I don't think you can record the same channel at the same time with multi-tuner units. I haven't looked into other specs because they are just too expensive.


Tivo - I am considering a friend's Series 3 HD (and then would have to get a second one). While it takes a cable card instead of IR blaster, that is cheaper for rental, but can't get on-demand. It does have two tuners so has dual line buffering (get a buffer for both tuners) and can record two shows at the same time (diff channels). The interface is inferior to RTV, but workable.


The major losses are buffers - only 30 minutes live buffer which means I cannot just set the unit on a channel, watch another show at the same time on another video in, and then go back to the Tivo and go back an hour or two and watch that show delayed so I can skip commercials. I do this ALL of the time. I also sometimes just leave RTV on a channel that has a movie and then go back 6 or 8 hours to watch it later on - I don't have to record everything.


Another buffer loss is adding extra time. You can only add up to 10 minutes prior to scheduled start and only 2 hours after and end. I have scheduled shows and wanted 30 minutes prior so I don't have to schedule two shows an experience the interruption when the recording changes. And I have chosen a show and added three hours (and with RTV, you can add as much space as you have) to I can just record all four episodes in one stream.


Record first run and repeats on the HD units apparently have some weird thing about not recording anything that was already recorded less than 28 days ago. With RTV, it just records everything if you tell it to.


Newer Tivos only have one output and no inputs. You don't stream between the units, you transfer the show - which is just not the same and requires space on the second unit. Certain shows are protected from download.


Tivos are expensive to run - $20/mo with commitment (or else pay cancellation fee) or $500 "lifetime." So get a used one with lifetime. Apparently if you have to get it fixed, it costs twice as much as it did for RTVs.


Comcast DVR - Proclaimed worst interface of the three, but is familiar if you have the regular cable box. Also dual-tuner. Can't download shows. Most can't stream (there is the DVR Anywhere model/setup though). Only one output and no inputs. The buffer is much better than Tivo - up to 90 minutes for digital channels (less for HD), but much less than RTV. The recording extension allows up to 15 minutes prior to 2 hours after (still not so good).


Monthly cost only, but if something is wrong, you just exchange it or upgrade instantly. Like the Tivo, you can program it from the internet (which was taken away from RTV a few years ago). Your HD size is limited by what they offer.


I am not considering Windows Media Center, at least not yet. The costs would be too substantial for me to build a good system.


So, in conclusion, I am very spoiled by having the large buffer. In fact, I intentionally leave lots of space on my hard drives so that I can buffer whatever I need to. I also stream all of the time and download shows that I cannot buy (like from PBS). I also have PIP on my TV, so two tuners in different electronics are needed, which means that if I got a Tivo or Comcast DVR, I would still need to keep one regular cable box. I also prefer the RTV interface since it is very straight forward without the fluff.


Hope this helps.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20584596
> 
> 
> With their current note about using it to manually record:
> 
> 
> Is that true, if the clock can't be set?
> 
> 
> Perhaps that is another tact to get them to release the information.



I think they literally mean "manual" in that you see the show is on, you press the record button, when show is over, you press the stop button.


But I am not even sure it can do that without channel info.


I honestly think that they just don't have anyone in the company that knows enough about these things to even know what will happen.


I believe the event that triggered this whole thing was the authorization issues they had a few weeks back. No one could get authorized for like a month or so. They probably had to bring someone in to fix it and it probably cost them big bucks and caused them to reconsider the service.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20584741
> 
> 
> I think they literally mean "manual" in that you see the show is on, you press the record button, when show is over, you press the stop button.
> 
> 
> But I am not even sure it can do that without channel info.



You can do that through input - no device.


----------



## jpinwv304




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20583514
> 
> 
> Ummmmm....yes it is.
> 
> 
> What do you think anyone in this world owes you? Do you think you're ENTITLED to know what anyone is thinking at any given time?
> 
> 
> Their reasons are THEIR reasons, and you are not ENTITLED to know anything about their reasons.
> 
> 
> Wow.



Such company actions represent deplorable business ethics. The company should have issued a statement describing the reason for ending services.


Given info from others, if DirectTV has aquired the IP then DirectTV should be legally bound to continue the service.


If DirectTV is linked to the ending of service, and provides no help, then if I need a DVR I will not choose a DirectTV product.


I really like my 2000 and want to keep it.


----------



## cwerdna

(As a TiVo user since 2001, using Tivo HD now on Frontier FiOS (formerly Verizon). Never had a Replay. Played with a friend's Replay 4K series, IIRC and IMHO, TiVo's UI is not inferior to RTV...)


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20584692
> 
> 
> Tivo - While it takes a cable card instead of IR blaster, that is cheaper for rental, but can't get on-demand. It does have two tuners so has dual line buffering (get a buffer for both tuners) and can record two shows at the same time (diff channels). The interface is inferior to RTV, but workable.
> 
> 
> The major losses are buffers - only 30 minutes live buffer which means I cannot just set the unit on a channel, watch another show at the same time on another video in, and then go back to the Tivo and go back an hour or two and watch that show delayed so I can skip commercials. I do this ALL of the time. I also sometimes just leave RTV on a channel that has a movie and then go back 6 or 8 hours to watch it later on - I don't have to record everything.
> 
> 
> Another buffer loss is adding extra time. You can only add up to 10 minutes prior to scheduled start and only 2 hours after and end. I have scheduled shows and wanted 30 minutes prior so I don't have to schedule two shows an experience the interruption when the recording changes.
> 
> ...
> 
> Record first run and repeats on the HD units apparently have some weird thing about not recording anything that was already recorded less than 28 days ago. With RTV, it just records everything if you tell it to.
> 
> 
> Newer Tivos only have one output and no inputs. You don't stream between the units, you transfer the show - which is just not the same and requires space on the second unit. Certain shows are protected from download.
> 
> 
> Tivos are expensive to run - $20/mo with commitment (or else pay cancellation fee) or $500 "lifetime." So get a used one with lifetime. Apparently if you have to get it fixed, it costs twice as much as it did for RTVs.
> 
> 
> Comcast DVR - Proclaimed worst interface of the three, but is familiar if you have the regular cable box..



On Demand is unavailable right now w/TiVo Series 3 and up, but there's apparently this deal: http://news.cnet.com/tivo-to-add-com...0061069-1.html .


The buffering issue is no big deal, IMHO. If you want the show or want to stay on the channel, just press record. The buffered portion is automatically included in the recording and not tossed.


You probably don't want to depend on the buffer on other tuner anyway because (IIRC), there's no guarantee that it won't change the channel behind your back to record a suggestion. You're best off just pressing record on one or both tuners.


You are correct about the 10 mins prior padding but wrong about the after. The max after is 3 hours. I've never done what you've described. I've almost never needed to pad more than 2 mins before and I don't watch sports so I hardly pad more than 5 mins after.


You've also hit upon the "28 day rule". It was added ages ago (I believe in version 2.0 software). If it successfully recorded the show in the last 28 days OR if it's in your now playing list (list of shows on your unit), if there's sufficient guide data, it won't record that same episode again. You can override that when you setup your season pass. You set the Show Type to "All (with duplicates)" to force it to record all occurrences. There's usually little need to do that.


The 28 day rule is a GOOD feature. Long ago, when Star Trek: Voyager aired 2x a week, it was good that it didn't need to record it twice, potentially causing a conflict.


As for some shows are protected from download, see www.tivo.com/copyprotection . It's up to your cable provider what channels they set flags on. Some (like Verizon FiOS) have it all wide open. Some *******s like Frontier FiOS put on CCI byte=0x02 on almost EVERY channel except for the ones available OTA.







My area what transitioned from VZ to Frontier. A month prior to that is when they suddenly turned on CP. That's a whole other story.


There's an incomplete CP tracking thread at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...opy+protection .


Yes, TiVo's "streaming" requires the content to be transferred. You can watch on the target (and source) units while the transfer's going on, so it is streaming, sort of. Unfortunately, at least on TiVo HD, the networking is slow and the max transfer rate isn't enough to keep up with some high-def recordings. You have to let it transfer some ahead of time to avoid stopples (for the lack of a better word).


Unfortunately, lifetime has gone up a lot. It started at $200 ages ago, and the price went up and up. They then got rid of it (saying they couldn't continue to operate their business providing lifetime) then resurrected it. With the exception of my DirecTiVo (lifetime unavailable) my TiVos (2 Series 1s, a Series 2 and TiVO HD) have/had lifetime. I've sold my Series 1s.


Since you mention friend, he might be eligible to buy a Premiere for $100 and lifetime for $400. Have him visit https://www3.tivo.com/store/upgrade_show.do .


As for Comcast, they have multiple software floating around, depending on the region. I know they have i-Guide deployed. They also may have SARA deployed, which I hear is terrible ( http://web.archive.org/web/200504050...iatlframe.html ). I hear some areas have Moxi and even some might have Passport Echo.


You can see what i-Guide and Passport look like at http://www.rovicorp.com/products/ser...nk_id=rightnav and http://www.rovicorp.com/products/ser...nk_id=rightnav . They previously weren't owned by the same parent company. i-Guide came from TV Guide/Gemstar (and Comcast?) while Passport Echo came from Pioneer and/or Aptiv.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwerdna* /forum/post/20584884
> 
> 
> (As a TiVo user since 2001, using Tivo HD now on Frontier FiOS (formerly Verizon). Never had a Replay. Played with a friend's Replay 4K series, IIRC and IMHO, TiVo's UI is not inferior to RTV...)



Thanks for updates since I have never really used a Tivo but for a moment. All of the info I got was from user guides and reviews, mainly of the Series 3 HD (so I didn't know about the longer end time setting and the override for the 28 day rule - the All choice is definitely not in the instructions).


I do like how if a program has started and you choose to record at the point, it will record from the beginning. RTV does not do that.


The buffer thing for me is basically to be able to go back hours in time, and with a single tuner nothing set to record, there is no threat of a channel change. You can't just press record to get an 8 or more hour buffer.


I am not sure what software Comcast has here, but we don't have the Tivo ones yet apparently.


Thanks again!


----------



## barmar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20584868
> 
> 
> Such company actions represent deplorable business ethics. The company should have issued a statement describing the reason for ending services.



What's the point? If someone shoots you, would you feel better if they explained WHY they're shooting you?


Do you expect McDonalds to issue a statement when they decide to stop selling a particular sandwich (WEHT the McDLT), or close some stores? Does a TV network have to explain the reason for cancelling a show?


And supposed they did issue the reason, what difference would it make? If you disagree with their reason, what are you going to do, get into a debate with them and try to convince them to change their mind? Their explanation will probably be "It costs us $X/mo to support the service, we're only receiving $Y/mo in revenue from it, and X is more than Y -- it makes no business sense to keep running a losing operation." What kind of argument can you make against that?


I'm as annoyed as the rest of you, but all this talk about class action lawsuits is kind of silly. I never thought "lifetime" meant forever, it just meant "pay once instead of monthly". The break even point is about 2 years, and I've been using my RTV's much longer than that, so I think I really got my money's worth.


Frankly, I think it's surprising the service has lasted this long.


----------



## barmar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20584955
> 
> 
> I am not sure what software Comcast has here, but we don't have the Tivo ones yet apparently.



It was only ever available in a few trial areas in the northeast. The softwre never worked well on Comcast's DVRs, and they announced a couple of weeks ago that they've cancelled the project.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20584955
> 
> 
> Thanks for updates since I have never really used a Tivo but for a moment. All of the info I got was from user guides and reviews, mainly of the Series 3 HD (so I didn't know about the longer end time setting and the override for the 28 day rule - the All choice is definitely not in the instructions).
> 
> 
> I do like how if a program has started and you choose to record at the point, it will record from the beginning. RTV does not do that.
> 
> 
> The buffer thing for me is basically to be able to go back hours in time, and with a single tuner nothing set to record, there is no threat of a channel change. You can't just press record to get an 8 or more hour buffer.
> 
> 
> I am not sure what software Comcast has here, but we don't have the Tivo ones yet apparently.
> 
> 
> Thanks again!



The override should be in the manual but I'm having trouble downloading it right now. When the 28 day rule was added as a feature (back in 2.0), there wasn't an override, IIRC. (Most current software is version 14.8 for Premieres per http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...ent%20software .)


It is mentioned at http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...8%20day%20rule and http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/...8%20day%20rule .


Correct. There's no way to just press record and get an 8 hour buffer.


You don't want the TiVo software that was ported to Comcast's Motorola DVRs. That's right, that's yet another piece of software floating around on Comcast. Comcast used to also have Microsoft TV Foundation Edition on Motorola boxes in the Seattle and Spokane, WA areas, but that was ditched. It got replaced w/i-Guide, AFAIK.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20585011
> 
> 
> It was only ever available in a few trial areas in the northeast. The softwre never worked well on Comcast's DVRs, and they announced a couple of weeks ago that they've cancelled the project.



Yeah, most accounts of it on Tivocommunity (from people who had standalone TiVos before) was that it sucked. I didn't realize it was canceled but it sure didn't look like TiVo was really standing behind it. Thanks for the heads up! I found http://www.multichannel.com/article/...en_VOD_Tap.php .


It is kind of funny because back in the day, ALL the Wall Street kept saying it was the holy grail for TiVo to partner w/cable cos to get their software on their boxes. At one point, the Comcast deal fell through and TiVo's stock TANKED. Later, it eventually went thru and IIRC, it shot up.


Side note: If you live in an area with SDV , you will also need a tuning adapter from your cable co. I hear some of them are flaky and suck. I have no experience w/them.


I also totally agree w/all of barmar's response to jpinwv304. I am surprised the EPG service wasn't shut off earlier.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20584400
> 
> 
> Dirctv bought replaytv and now is suppose to honor those agreements replaytv/sonicblue made.



DirecTV never purchase the subscriptions from DNNA, DNNA only sold them the intelectual properly of how the ReplayTV works. DNNA is still the owner of the subsriptions themselves and still maintains the hardware. This doesn't involve DirecTV in any way...


Henry


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20584542
> 
> 
> Hmmm... they didn't even proofread it. It's missing an open-paren on the first line.



Their mistake is that an open parenthesis is a control character. For example, they use "%" to most likely generate a carrige return/line feed. I have to assume that the have a forcing character for actually generating an open parenthesis, possibly "(()". The message source actually contains the open parenthesis, so proofreading the source wasn't the problem. Actually trying to see how it looked means poor release proceedures, and not know that using an open parenthesis to be problematic only shows ignorance...


Henry


----------



## mschmitt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20584334
> 
> 
> There will be no lawsuits, only people who are unhappy that "lifetime" doesn't mean THEIR lifetimes. And D&M is no doubt NOT reconsidering any bit of this because of fifteen people on an obscure forum. We don't factor into their decision in this matter at all, not one tiny bit.



I expected my ReplayTV's hard drive, power supply, fan, or capacitors to fail before the service.


But, oh well, D&M has made the lesson clear. Now I know to avoid products from Denon, Marantz, McIntosh, Escient, and Boston Acoustics.


----------



## Arvy

Do Panasonic Showstoppers use ReplayTV servers? Is service to the SS being discontinued, too? WiRNS seems easy enough to use for my two 55xx boxes (if the option is viable), but converting a SS to Ethernet is a big chore.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20584692
> 
> 
> Comcast DVR - Proclaimed worst interface of the three, but is familiar if you have the regular cable box...



Side note: From http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=471455 , I found this demo of supposedly Comcast's "Next Generation Video Product" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBnLCbzMR9Y .


It actually looks pretty good.


I know you harped on the buffer but seriously, most TiVo users never watch live TV anymore (other than sports) nor dink around w/being behind live TV via the buffer w/o setting a recording. Thus, the buffer length is pretty much irrelevant. Most of which watch what's in our Now Playing List.


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeeSpotRun* /forum/post/20584489
> 
> 
> That is quite a "grow up and take it like a man" speech.
> 
> 
> I am a lawyer and here is my take on this. Note: While I am a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer so this is merely my opinion and not legal advice.



IANAL, but wouldn't a better avenue be to try and get the attorney general interested? I thought there was a law indicating the expected lifetime of a durable good was 7 years (I may be completely wrong on this though). I know 5500 units were being sold by DNAA on their website as recently as 2 years ago, possibly even after that.


----------



## Mike Cornwell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edbob* /forum/post/20582031
> 
> 
> According to the RePlay Customer Service representative named Michael at 254-299-2705, the RePlay contact person that is responsible for this shut down is Michael Begala, Vice President, at 100 Corporate Drive, Mahwah, NJ 07430.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately Michael, the customer service representative, had no phone number for Mr. Begala, and I have not found one yet....



Well, Facebook says:

Michael Begala

Lives in Carmel, Indiana From Mahwah, New Jersey


My favorite public records site, zabasearch.com, lists phone numbers for him in both NJ and IN. perhaps someone here can call him directly!


----------



## gatomon

From the El Gamal paper "A Public Key Cryptosystem and a Signature Scheme Based on Discrete Logarithms"

_If any k is used twice in the signing, then the system of equations is uniquely determined and x [, the secret key,] can be recovered. So for the system to be secure, any value of k should never be used twice._


This means that each time they updated the time, they had to use a different "k" value (the signature has two parts, "r" and "s"; if "k" is the same then "r" is the same). This would be hard for them to do day in and day out for every time update request. I saw somewhere that someone had recorded Replaytv transactions over several years. If we collect that data, and perhaps find some other similar data, I would be surprised if every "r" value is distinct (you only need to find one instance of a repeated use of the "k" ("r") value.


Furthermore, the algorithm has three steps, The first:

_1) Choose a random number k, uniformly between 0 and p - 1, such that gcd(k, p - 1) = 1._


If they do this (i.e., randomly select k), then we have the "birthday paradox" on our side ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem); if they do something like a simple counter, I expect that this can be exploited.


Just think'in,

-Chris


PS: I won't give up until the fat lady sings...


----------



## ThomasH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hankhi* /forum/post/20573839
> 
> 
> For those of us who paid for a "lifetime subscription" expecting just that, do they owe us a rebate or refund? sounds like lawsuit material to me.




YES.


They sold us a lifetime contract. We accepted the risk and they accepted the liability!


Is there an actual owner? If so they should be responsible for the liability and buy out the remaining lifetime contracts.


If I remember right, lifetime meant the life of the unit.


How about a final patch that at least makes the unit as functional as a full featured VCR?


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeeSpotRun* /forum/post/20584489
> 
> 
> Anyway, this is a simple case of breach of contract. As shown on their web site "The current monthly subscription fee is $12.95 and the one-time service activation option for the lifetime of your ReplayTV unit is $299." So, lifetime is not my lifetime, it is the lifetime of my unit.



And how many of those screaming "LAWSUIT!" can present a unit with its warranty sticker intact? How many of you never touched your unit for the purposes of repair of any kind--even replacing the hard drive?


Sans warranty sticker, the unit is easily deemed past ITS lifetime.


The only way to get a warranty sticker back on a repaired unit is to have Replay repair the unit. How many actually sent it back to Replay for repair?


The fact is, most if not all of the units have officially "died" by now, and the ones that are still in use have mostly been unofficially resurrected/repaired.


----------



## Lark888

I have two units with intact stickers. I don't think it matters.


Lifetime is a slippery term. For example, I own a 3Com managed switch with a lifetime warranty. They replaced the switch once about seven years ago when it failed. However, since that time, the product has been discontinued and the lifetime warranty 'timed' out five years after the product was no longer being built. This is their official policy and was likely published somewhere obscure from the beginning (like on Alpha Centauri as aptly described by Douglas Adams in the Hitchhikers Guide). BTW, the switch is still going strong running 24/7.


I agree with the poster above that filing individual simple lawsuits may be the most successful way to pester the company into releasing the information on the keys. I doubt that enough people will do so to make a difference. I still use ReplayTVs extensively for my family (3 here, 3 with relatives). I doubt that my retired mother would want to learn how to use MCE or even TIVO. She adores the ReplayTV function and interface.


Thank goodness for the alternate methods. I am already using WiRNS and Schedules Direct to get a good OTA listing and keep CA on my 5500 series unit. I will transition to WiRNS/SD for all units before July 31. As long as the clock and activation 'check' still works, this will get around the missing TVGuide data.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20585429
> 
> 
> And how many of those screaming "LAWSUIT!" can present a unit with its warranty sticker intact? How many of you never touched your unit for the purposes of repair of any kind--even replacing the hard drive?
> 
> 
> Sans warranty sticker, the unit is easily deemed past ITS lifetime.
> 
> 
> The only way to get a warranty sticker back on a repaired unit is to have Replay repair the unit. How many actually sent it back to Replay for repair?
> 
> 
> The fact is, most if not all of the units have officially "died" by now, and the ones that are still in use have mostly been unofficially resurrected/repaired.



I can. All three of mine in use have never been opened by anyone but ReplayTV.


That said, I would rather have servers keeping the clock alive than any repayment of worth because I would rather use my replays than any other DVR out there.


On another note, I just woke with a weird thought. I know that you can operate as usual without being connected to the network as long as whatever is left from the two week guide download is there (I am doing that now as a test on a fourth unit). So, I was considering unplugging my units on Sunday, 7/31 so they would not try to update again after that. But, I want them networked to each other, so I would need to plug them in again to do that which means they will attempt to netconnect at some point.


What happens if D&M (that owns the DNNA servers) program some kind of final netconnect message that resets all of the machines (which would render them useless) that you would eventually get even if you unplug for a while? It is one thing if they just go down, but they can send any functions to the machines they want.


Could having WiRNS setup save the units? But then loading WiRNS becomes a requirement beyond simply leaving the units in place as is. So does that mean that WiRNS users are not getting the discontinuation message because they are not connecting to DNNA? If they are getting the message, then WiRNS will not save us from that possible fate.


----------



## lnoland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20584692
> 
> 
> I am trying to compare other DVRs and here is what I have found as major losses:
> 
> 
> Moxi - I have only just learned about the Moxi which is ridiculously expensive up front and gets so-so reviews. Another aspect they consider a plus, but I do not is that it has three tuners, so you can record three shows at a time and then stream to the non-dvr boxes in other rooms. I don't like this because if that box goes down, you are left with nothing. I have three ReplayTVs so if something happens to one, I have others. Or if I want to record the exact same shows on two at the same time (which I have only done as a backup in case something weird happened with one unit - it happens), I can. I don't think you can record the same channel at the same time with multi-tuner units. I haven't looked into other specs because they are just too expensive.
> 
> 
> Tivo - I am considering a friend's Series 3 HD (and then would have to get a second one). While it takes a cable card instead of IR blaster, that is cheaper for rental, but can't get on-demand. It does have two tuners so has dual line buffering (get a buffer for both tuners) and can record two shows at the same time (diff channels). The interface is inferior to RTV, but workable.
> 
> 
> The major losses are buffers - only 30 minutes live buffer which means I cannot just set the unit on a channel, watch another show at the same time on another video in, and then go back to the Tivo and go back an hour or two and watch that show delayed so I can skip commercials. I do this ALL of the time. I also sometimes just leave RTV on a channel that has a movie and then go back 6 or 8 hours to watch it later on - I don't have to record everything.
> 
> 
> Another buffer loss is adding extra time. You can only add up to 10 minutes prior to scheduled start and only 2 hours after and end. I have scheduled shows and wanted 30 minutes prior so I don't have to schedule two shows an experience the interruption when the recording changes. And I have chosen a show and added three hours (and with RTV, you can add as much space as you have) to I can just record all four episodes in one stream.
> 
> 
> Record first run and repeats on the HD units apparently have some weird thing about not recording anything that was already recorded less than 28 days ago. With RTV, it just records everything if you tell it to.
> 
> 
> Newer Tivos only have one output and no inputs. You don't stream between the units, you transfer the show - which is just not the same and requires space on the second unit. Certain shows are protected from download.
> 
> 
> Tivos are expensive to run - $20/mo with commitment (or else pay cancellation fee) or $500 "lifetime." So get a used one with lifetime. Apparently if you have to get it fixed, it costs twice as much as it did for RTVs.
> 
> 
> Comcast DVR - Proclaimed worst interface of the three, but is familiar if you have the regular cable box. Also dual-tuner. Can't download shows. Most can't stream (there is the DVR Anywhere model/setup though). Only one output and no inputs. The buffer is much better than Tivo - up to 90 minutes for digital channels (less for HD), but much less than RTV. The recording extension allows up to 15 minutes prior to 2 hours after (still not so good).
> 
> 
> Monthly cost only, but if something is wrong, you just exchange it or upgrade instantly. Like the Tivo, you can program it from the internet (which was taken away from RTV a few years ago). Your HD size is limited by what they offer.
> 
> 
> I am not considering Windows Media Center, at least not yet. The costs would be too substantial for me to build a good system.
> 
> 
> So, in conclusion, I am very spoiled by having the large buffer. In fact, I intentionally leave lots of space on my hard drives so that I can buffer whatever I need to. I also stream all of the time and download shows that I cannot buy (like from PBS). I also have PIP on my TV, so two tuners in different electronics are needed, which means that if I got a Tivo or Comcast DVR, I would still need to keep one regular cable box. I also prefer the RTV interface since it is very straight forward without the fluff.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



I have been running MythTV for a couple years now and though I imagine most of you have heard about it, many probably have never given it a serious look or investigated it beyond its feature set. Since I was a dyed-in-the-wool ReplayTV addict when I started using it (and will keep using my Replays through the end of July I suspect) this might be a good time for me to give it a sort of "review" for the benefit of my ReplayTV brethren looking at the possibility of being cast adrift with no lifeboats in sight. I wasn't sure if I should post this here even though it seemed timely and relevant to the general mood -- if you think I should start a separate thread let me know (please don't suggest moving it to a forum about MythTV -- the whole point was to discuss alternatives for the benefit of ReplayTV users).


MythTV is a mixed bag to be sure. It is beyond feature-rich -- with all of its add-ins it covers a wide variety of media and capabilities but I'm not going to attempt a comprehensive list of functions since that part is easy enough to track down. What isn't so easy is to get an impression of life with MythTV without doing a lot of reading in a lot of different forums, so I will try to tell you how it has worked for me.


First, the quality-level is all over the map. As open-source software without any particular backing except the dedicated developers it runs the gamut between the best aspects of open-source and the worst. It has some features which work so well that I suspect nothing else can touch them (certainly, the scheduler falls in that category -- more on that later). It also has features (particularly, many of the add-ins) which work so poorly, or are so badly conceived and/or constructed, that it is hard to believe that anyone would have spent the time building them. It is being actively developed which is also a double-edged sword. Over time, some things which barely worked have become strong features and areas which had been unstable have become very stable. But, there are also cases where things which used to work great suddenly stop working after loading updates or where someone decides to completely redesign a feature and that feature which I liked just fine before suddenly I'm not so crazy about. Some have advocated that if you have a working installation which you are happy with, turn off updates and just run it. I have never tried that because usually there is something which I am hoping will get fixed or there is a promised feature I am looking forward to and so I deal with the ups and downs.


MythTV is a client-server, distributed architecture which can accommodate both simple systems and massively complex ones. At a minimum, you need a backend and a frontend (they can both be on one machine) where the backend handles the database, the guide data, scheduling, recording, the tuners, file-management, etc. (in other words, most of the heavy-lifting). The front-end is the presentation piece -- the part which connects to your TV or monitor and plays the video, interacts with the user, etc. You can have multiple backends, with one being the master and all others being slaves, and you can configure them to distribute the duties. You can have multiple front ends so that you can stream your video to wherever you have a front end system connected to a TV or monitor.


There are some options for viewing recordings. Besides a MythTV frontend, MythTV will stream to a Upnp device. XBMC, a slick package which generally works much more nicely than the MythTV addins for a lot of the media-viewer stuff, has a pretty good MythTV plugin for watching recorded shows. MythTV also has an option for MythWeb, a browser-based MythTV interface which allows you to handle system maintenance, view and change your schedule, and stream recordings to anywhere you've enabled access. None of the alternatives to MythTV frontend offer all of its features, however. There is now, a limited version of MythTV FrontEnd which runs on Windows but I haven't tried it.


How much hardware do you need? Mostly depends on what you want to do -- if only a little, you can get by with pretty modest hardware, I am told. If you want to do a lot, you probably can't. My main backend runs in a virtual machine (on VirtualBox) on an I7 machine running Windows 7.

Previously, I had the virtual machine hosted on a Linux Box running on an Intel Q6600 quad processor machine. I have two SiliconDust HDHomeRun network-based tuners with two tuners each recording Clear QAM HD off of my cable line. Since MythTV has support for pulling separate signals from multiplexed frequencies, MythTV actually sees my 4 tuners as 8 but can only use one of the additional 4 if it is recording a channel multiplexed on the same frequency as another channel being recorded. My frontend system is probably overkill -- an I5 processor machine with an NVidia GT430 video card. That box has both a frontend and a slave backend. The slave backend is useful because it allows recording to the internal drive so I don't have to have 4 HD feeds all going over the network to the same destination simultaneously (I have a Gigabit network, though the HDHomeRuns only attach at 100Mb/s). I have something like 4TB of storage space distributed over three computers and connected by NFS. I have had 4 HD feeds recording at once while watching a recorded HD program and it usually works fine, but there have been, on rare occasions, cases of I/O overruns (though I think it was mainly due to some poor choices for NFS mount parameters). My first frontend unit (an Intel Core 2 Duo machine with an NVidia 8500GT videocard) died on me, but when it was running I had a Hauppauge PVR1500 card with both a digital QAM tuner and an analog tuner which I hooked to the output of my cablebox. I didn't move that tuner over to the new machine but given that I am losing my ReplayTVs, I guess I should do that so I can continue to record at least one cable channel.


What's good?


First of all, there's that fantastic scheduler. One can choose just about any recording criteria imaginable -- record show once a week on this channel; record anytime on any channel; record once a day on this channel; Record just this showing; Record one episode anytime; etc. If you want to get more specific you can create special recording rules which use SQL filters on the database to pick shows (while you don't need to know SQL, some knowledge of SQL does help). There are various "built-in" templates which supply the code for specific situations (e.g. only HD; only widescreen; genre Movie; television series ID; prefer HD; Only on station with callsign xx; Weekdays after 10:00pm; Show title like ; etc.) but once you start combining them, it doesn't always result in valid SQL so one has to clean it up a bit (which is where the SQL knowledge becomes valuable). There are all kinds of record options (e.g. new shows only; skip old episodes; prefer tuner xx; record with priority +5; look for duplicates in recorded shows only; look for duplicates in recorded shows and previous recordings; etc.). There are also all kinds of storage options (e.g. autoexpire; keep at most 5 episodes; store in storage group xx; etc.). And the scheduler is really fast -- it can go through a huge number of rules and pick an optimal schedule (minimum number of conflicts) in a matter of seconds. You can prioritize recording rules to ensure that your favorite shows will win conflicts (and the priority rules also have an effect on autoexpiration order but how priority works there isn't as clear to me as it is in recording). Conflict resolution isn't always perfect. I have found that, at times, I can eliminate a conflict by tweaking priority numbers -- it's kind of cool increasing the priority on an item by 5 and seeing the scheduler reschedule 10 shows to alternate times or different tuners and suddenly find a spot to record that show which it said was a conflict, but it isn't always clear why I had to change a priority to get it to make that change. You can also prioritize tuners, channels, and using those custom record filters, almost anything else.


You can add as much time to the front or back of a recording as you like and it will flexibly obey that directive or ignore it if necessary to record back to back shows. You can also have it start a recording late and/or end early (negative padding).


Recording and playback overall works well, but it doesn't handle file glitches (i.e. places where the recording stream had problems, like dropped data) quite as well as Replay -- I have had more issues than I ever had with ReplayTV with things like the picture freezing up requiring that I kill the frontend process and restart it or sometimes even causing crashes of the frontend process. Of course, that might be because it is recording a digital stream rather than an analog one. Fast forward and rewind doesn't work as smoothly as on ReplayTV but I find it acceptable most of the time.


I have always found watching live-TV to be somewhat problematic for some reason -- more prone to dropped frames and other glitches, but I almost never watch live-TV. Oddly enough, if I just record the program and watch the program while recording is in progress it usually works just fine.


Commercial skip is a standard feature and overall it appears about as accurate as commercial skip in ReplayTV.


There are addins for editing a recorded show and for creating a basic DVD of a recorded show and they are pretty slick. The DVD authoring tool doesn't offer much in the way of bells and whistles (and has a bug or two) but allows one to assemble a DVD title pretty rapidly. The editor has the most sensible user-interface I have encountered for simple editing. If you are trying to create a production-quality piece (e.g. with fades, dissolves, etc.) you're going to need a professional editor. If you just want to zip quickly through the file and cut out commercials or trim any extra from the front and back of the show, the built-in editor will get you there quickly. One nice touch -- you can load the automatically-generated commercial-skip markers into the editor as a cut-list to use as-is or to adjust and expand upon.


There is support for customizing operation in a lot of different ways such as hooks for running a user job after a recording finishes. Starting with version 0.23 they added the ability to launch scripts whenever one of a number of system events occur such as a recording starting, or playback being paused, or the backend is being shut down, etc. There are also custom keypress events to allow the user to launch a script by pressing a key -- one can even signal an event from a command line, so an event handler could also raise an event (or an independent program could use it as a simple way to interact with MythTV).


The bad?


Most of the add-ins like for playing music files or viewing photographs, etc., are poorly done and not really worth the effort, IMHO.


MythTV runs on Linux which is nice because the OS is therefore free, but if you are not familiar with Linux, you will a have to learn at least enough to maintain your system.


Since there is no support for DRM, the only way you would ever be able to record anything like a premium cable channel would be through a cable box, possibly using something like Hauppauge's HD PVR.


Learning how to configure MythTV can seem like the stuff of nightmares. There are a million options and many are poorly documented or the best documentation is unofficial and you might soon discover, completely out of date.


You need to be vigilant to not allow your recorded-program storage to become full because MythTV does not handle the situation very gracefully (though its gotten better) -- I frequently wish that they had implemented something like ReplayTV's reserved feature (technically, you can keep yourself covered with autoexpire but it still requires some vigilance).


It might be easy to get caught up in the possibilities and spend way too much money before you know it, building your dream system "because you can".


The intoxication of having all of that power at your fingertips will likely be interrupted with frequent reality checks in the form of frustrations like, "gee, everything's been humming along great but suddenly, it seems like everything that recorded on this tuner in the last five days has no actual recording file".


Being open-source, you have to rely on, for support, those volunteers who have so generously donated their time and effort that it is hard to reconcile the anger and frustration you might feel when you have searched and searched for an answer for why something keeps failing only to have one of the gurus respond with something like, "Well, of course it isn't working -- you never unchecked the 'use FooBarX syncing' option on screen 65 of the configuration procedure and FooBarX only works with video cards with support for 'screen frazzling' which your model doesn't -- you'd have known that if you would have run the derburgle command with the -v option."


Then, there is that stability issue I mentioned earlier . . . .


Bottom-line, MythTV is a heck of a lot of great stuff for free, but it requires a pioneer-spirit -- there's no neat package to buy off-the-shelf and carry home. There's a lot to learn though packages like MythBuntu (which is how I started) or KnoppMyth (haven't used it but I have heard good things) make it a little easier to get started. And for those who have done such great things for the ReplayTV community with projects like Wirns and IVSMagic, if you wanted to continue in that spirit of generosity and apply that sort of creative and innovative thinking in an area where you would have more control and greater potential, I'm sure that the MythTV community would love to have you onboard.










- Les


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20585520
> 
> 
> Being open-source, you have to rely on, for support, those volunteers who have so generously donated their time and effort that it is hard to reconcile the anger and frustration you might feel when you have searched and searched for an answer for why something keeps failing only to have one of the gurus respond with something like, "Well, of course it isn't working -- you never unchecked the 'use FooBarX syncing' option on screen 65 of the configuration procedure and FooBarX only works with video cards with support for 'screen frazzling' which your model doesn't -- you'd have known that if you would have run the derburgle command with the -v option."



...and this is why I absolutely love coming here!!! Great stuff, and OH so true!


Of course, Myth is limited to OTA and clear QAM. Now, part of me says, that's perfectly OK--because if the black box is watching TV for me 24/7, and has multiple tuners to boot, it will capture more than enough TV for me to watch in the time I have available to watch it. I might regret not seeing Mythbusters, but so be it.


One of the problems of the modern world is that OTA and clear QAM channel numbering is so bizarre, setting up and maintaining channel guides can be difficult.


When my cableco announced going all digital, I assumed that meant that (in typical cableco fashion) even the standard cable lineup, which I had been using with my Replays for years, was going to require a box of some kind to tune in. I knew I wasn't going to use the cableco equipment, so that's why I went down the cableCARD path--and that led me to 7MC.


Myth was not an option in an encrypted system.


I was fully engaged in that and was specifying my system and acquiring parts, and I had the Ceton tuner on order (took 6-8 weeks to ship), when the cableco clarified their communication to the world to say that their standard lineup would remain in the clear, just like it always was. So moving to digital did NOT mean encryption.


Dang, so I really DIDN'T need the Ceton tuner or cableCARD. Dammit, why didn't you tell me that originally, cableco? (Regardless, hats off to them--how many cablecos would make the effort to keep their clear lineup in the clear after a digital transition?)


While I waited for the Ceton card to arrive, I got a Hauppauge tuner card to play around with the clear QAM and familiarize myself with 7MC. Translating the frequencies to the guide data was tedious, all the more so because the cableco rolled out the digital stuff not all at once but instead over three months--and I was constantly going back in to map the newly digital channels to the guide data.


The process is difficult for a number of reasons, all of which are hard to describe but which become immediately obvious the first time you do it.


I probably did this a dozen times, sometimes completely from scratch as the result of their rollout and my learning curve on 7MC.


I tell that story to tell this one: once I heard that my standard lineup would be in the clear, I considered NOT using the cableCARD at all and instead using a couple of Hauppauge clear QAM tuners. Others advised me that cableCARD really makes things easy with respect to the guide and channel numbering--numbers will stay consistent and easy on the cableCARD, but are funky and can move around in clear QAM. For a rental of a couple bucks a month, they said, cableCARD really makes things easier.


Turned out they were RIGHT. I still have both tuners installed, but all the hassle I went through with setting up and maintaining the clear QAM side just isn't worth it. I'm seriously considering dumping it and putting another Ceton in, and getting another cableCARD. The end result would be 8 tuners, all on the same page.


If you're willing to fiddle a bit in the best tradition of Myth, and you don't need cableCARD to get the lineup you want, then by all means spend some time getting a stable Myth setup going for cheap. 7MC's scheduler is about 80-85% that of what you describe of Myth's, and both are a clear step above what Replay offered.


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20585245
> 
> 
> From the El Gamal paper "A Public Key Cryptosystem and a Signature Scheme Based on Discrete Logarithms"
> 
> _If any k is used twice in the signing, then the system of equations is uniquely determined and x [, the secret key,] can be recovered. So for the system to be secure, any value of k should never be used twice._
> 
> 
> This means that each time they updated the time, they had to use a different "k" value (the signature has two parts, "r" and "s"; if "k" is the same then "r" is the same). This would be hard for them to do day in and day out for every time update request. I saw somewhere that someone had recorded Replaytv transactions over several years. If we collect that data, and perhaps find some other similar data, I would be surprised if every "r" value is distinct (you only need to find one instance of a repeated use of the "k" ("r") value.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, the algorithm has three steps, The first:
> 
> _1) Choose a random number k, uniformly between 0 and p - 1, such that gcd(k, p - 1) = 1._
> 
> 
> If they do this (i.e., randomly select k), then we have the "birthday paradox" on our side ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem); if they do something like a simple counter, I expect that this can be exploited.
> 
> 
> Just think'in,
> 
> -Chris
> 
> 
> PS: I won't give up until the fat lady sings...



I am going to take the liberty of responding in a new thread called "Encryption and El Gamal Signature"


----------



## notyoung




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20585520
> 
> 
> 
> Being open-source, you have to rely on, for support, those volunteers who have so generously donated their time and effort that it is hard to reconcile the anger and frustration you might feel when you have searched and searched for an answer for why something keeps failing only to have one of the gurus respond with something like, "Well, of course it isn't working -- you never unchecked the 'use FooBarX syncing' option on screen 65 of the configuration procedure and FooBarX only works with video cards with support for 'screen frazzling' which your model doesn't -- you'd have known that if you would have run the derburgle command with the -v option."



That's exactly the type of problem that would drive me insane and one of the main reasons I like the replay so much. All you do is plug it in and it works.


I would rather do some insane hack on the Replay that involved soldering something to the motherboard than to have deal with something running on Linux that might stop working at any time. I would definitely be in the "once it works than don't mess with it camp".



Thanks for the detailed post though, I think everyone on this board appreciates it as we consider what to do in August.


----------



## slowbiscuit

I gave away my two Replays late last year because they were gathering dust, having been replaced by a couple of Tivo HDs long ago. Given that the previous-gen Series3 Tivos can be had with lifetime for less than $400 used on fleabay, it's not that difficult a choice to switch if you don't want to rely on using WiRNS on a PC.


The feature set of a Tivo is fairly rich, they are rock-solid reliable as a DVR, and provide tons of extra stuff like access to Netflix, Pandora, Youtube, net VOD, and pretty much anything you want to watch from downloads or rips via PC transfer. The hard drive in a Tivo is also easily expandable and they do OTA recordings if you want that. No co-op scheduling or commercial skip, but they do have a 30-second skip which works quite well especially when you consider that Replay auto-skip only works about half the time anyway. The biggest issue for some here is that they do not do IR blasting so are only good for analog/digital cable or OTA, but if you need that for sat there are tons of Series2 units that can do that. Honestly, I would say that the sat DVRs are so good now there's not much reason not to use them, though.

In sum, I can highly recommend either the Tivo S3 or HD but the current Premiere models still have unresolved issues and are more expensive, so not a big thumbs-up for them.


I am also a former MythTV user (after Replays, when I wanted HD and retired them). It was very time-consuming to setup properly at the time, 5 years ago or so, but once done worked very well. It is more expensive to run power-wise and had occasional issues with playback of certain HD shows, but in general was a good alternative. Right now I am currently running a Windows 7 Media Center box for clear QAM HD recordings with both a Linksys and Xbox extenders, but I only use this as overflow for my two Tivos (i.e., rarely used). The extenders are not a great solution for remote viewing of anything other than recordings or live TV, but they do work. I also do not think WMC works as well day-to-day as the Tivos, but it does give you tons of options for commercial skip and other stuff via plugins.

I would not recommend an HTPC solution to anyone not willing to tinker a bit, but it is a valid alternative.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20584999
> 
> 
> What's the point? If someone shoots you, would you feel better if they explained WHY they're shooting you?
> 
> 
> Do you expect McDonalds to issue a statement when they decide to stop selling a particular sandwich (WEHT the McDLT), or close some stores? Does a TV network have to explain the reason for cancelling a show?



Barmar, your McDonals example isn't even close. Let me rework it for you. You walk into the McDonalds and are sold "all-you-can-eat mcnuggets" for $5. You eat 20 nuggets along with some other people who wanted the deal and the store manager comes out and says they are no longer serving any more nuggets. This is a breach of contract. Directv has an obligation to make good on the committments of the company they bought. It's that simple. They even implicitly understood that when they continued the guide service when they first bought replaytv.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20585102
> 
> 
> DirecTV never purchase the subscriptions from DNNA, DNNA only sold them the intelectual properly of how the ReplayTV works. DNNA is still the owner of the subsriptions themselves and still maintains the hardware. This doesn't involve DirecTV in any way...
> 
> 
> Henry



Are you sure about that, Henry?

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-12/...-replaytv-huh/ 


That link doesn't say anything about directv just buying the IP. Also, my best guess based on what I've read, is that Directv owns replaytv and as part of the deal of the purchase, they asked D&M continue to survice now Directv's replaytv's customers.


----------



## terabid

I have a simple question. When they stop on Jul 31 my Showstopper will continue to try to dial in every night. Since they are not there any more will I get an alarm message each day that they cannot be reached. The alarms will pile up in my message box. Does anybody know how to turn off the dial in? Also is anybody aware of the undocumented techniques other than channel 243 plus Replay zone and hitting Replay Zone when you are in Dialing and Input settings to set baud rate or RF Blaster info.


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Voiding the warranty by removing the sticker or having the warranty expire at the end of a year (I think they had 1 year warranties) doesn't negate the service agreement sold to us. It just means they don't have to fix it for free.


----------



## barmar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20586359
> 
> 
> Barmar, your McDonals example isn't even close. Let me rework it for you. You walk into the McDonalds and are sold "all-you-can-eat mcnuggets" for $5. You eat 20 nuggets along with some other people who wanted the deal and the store manager comes out and says they are no longer serving any more nuggets. This is a breach of contract. Directv has an obligation to make good on the committments of the company they bought. It's that simple. They even implicitly understood that when they continued the guide service when they first bought replaytv.



That has nothing to do with my post, which was responding to someone who said that they should explain WHY they're discontinuing the service. My analogy was not intended to reflect the contractual obligation (IANAL), just the public relations aspect.


----------



## lnoland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20585622
> 
> 
> ...and this is why I absolutely love coming here!!! Great stuff, and OH so true!
> 
> 
> Of course, Myth is limited to OTA and clear QAM. Now, part of me says, that's perfectly OK--because if the black box is watching TV for me 24/7, and has multiple tuners to boot, it will capture more than enough TV for me to watch in the time I have available to watch it. I might regret not seeing Mythbusters, but so be it.
> 
> 
> One of the problems of the modern world is that OTA and clear QAM channel numbering is so bizarre, setting up and maintaining channel guides can be difficult.
> 
> 
> When my cableco announced going all digital, I assumed that meant that (in typical cableco fashion) even the standard cable lineup, which I had been using with my Replays for years, was going to require a box of some kind to tune in. I knew I wasn't going to use the cableco equipment, so that's why I went down the cableCARD path--and that led me to 7MC.
> 
> 
> Myth was not an option in an encrypted system.
> 
> 
> I was fully engaged in that and was specifying my system and acquiring parts, and I had the Ceton tuner on order (took 6-8 weeks to ship), when the cableco clarified their communication to the world to say that their standard lineup would remain in the clear, just like it always was. So moving to digital did NOT mean encryption.
> 
> 
> Dang, so I really DIDN'T need the Ceton tuner or cableCARD. Dammit, why didn't you tell me that originally, cableco? (Regardless, hats off to them--how many cablecos would make the effort to keep their clear lineup in the clear after a digital transition?)
> 
> 
> While I waited for the Ceton card to arrive, I got a Hauppauge tuner card to play around with the clear QAM and familiarize myself with 7MC. Translating the frequencies to the guide data was tedious, all the more so because the cableco rolled out the digital stuff not all at once but instead over three months--and I was constantly going back in to map the newly digital channels to the guide data.
> 
> 
> The process is difficult for a number of reasons, all of which are hard to describe but which become immediately obvious the first time you do it.
> 
> 
> I probably did this a dozen times, sometimes completely from scratch as the result of their rollout and my learning curve on 7MC.
> 
> 
> I tell that story to tell this one: once I heard that my standard lineup would be in the clear, I considered NOT using the cableCARD at all and instead using a couple of Hauppauge clear QAM tuners. Others advised me that cableCARD really makes things easy with respect to the guide and channel numbering--numbers will stay consistent and easy on the cableCARD, but are funky and can move around in clear QAM. For a rental of a couple bucks a month, they said, cableCARD really makes things easier.
> 
> 
> Turned out they were RIGHT. I still have both tuners installed, but all the hassle I went through with setting up and maintaining the clear QAM side just isn't worth it. I'm seriously considering dumping it and putting another Ceton in, and getting another cableCARD. The end result would be 8 tuners, all on the same page.
> 
> 
> If you're willing to fiddle a bit in the best tradition of Myth, and you don't need cableCARD to get the lineup you want, then by all means spend some time getting a stable Myth setup going for cheap. 7MC's scheduler is about 80-85% that of what you describe of Myth's, and both are a clear step above what Replay offered.



My cable company, WideOpenWest, is converting us to all-digital this summer but they've announced that they are going to leave their basic cable lineup as clear QAM which is great (although I am a little annoyed that it will be in SD, but still, it's a pretty decent of them to leave it unencrypted).


In MythTV, I get around the new channel numbering nonsense by just changing the channel numbers back to the same ones they use on the cable feed. It's a little tedious to do -- I could just whip up the SQL and change it in the database directly but it's not that hard in the channel editor and I don't have to do it that often.


Since I'm losing the ReplayTVs, I will have to switch over my cable box to MythTV for recording encrypted channels. On the plus side, since I won't be limited to SD anymore, I'll probably swap out my standard digital cable box for an HD box and add an HD PVR. I might look into a cable card approach but let's not go crazy -- losing my ReplayTV's is just about as much change as I can handle at one time.










- Les


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20586640
> 
> 
> My cable company, WideOpenWest, is converting us to all-digital this summer but they've announced that they are going to leave their basic cable lineup as clear QAM which is great (although I am a little annoyed that it will be in SD, but still, it's a pretty decent of them to leave it unencrypted).



Yup. Everything I said will apply to you, because my cableco is WOW as well. I love WOW for a ton of reasons, but I was frustrated by their lack of communication on the whole digital transition.


I went to the local office a couple times to get and swap out cableCARDs, and that was my godsend--there was a guy there who knew EVERYTHING about what was going on, and he was the one who told me they were keeping the standard lineup in the clear.


He even gave me a sheet outlining what frequencies, what new channel numbers, the standard lineup would use, and exactly what channels were moving when during the three month rollout.


----------



## Reden

FYI.. I've set up a Wiki to post the current status of things. It will help newcomers by not having to read through all the forums (which tend to be a work in progress).

http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/ReplayTV 


Robert


----------



## jpinwv304




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20586392
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that, Henry?
> 
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2007-12/...-replaytv-huh/
> 
> 
> That link doesn't say anything about directv just buying the IP. Also, my best guess based on what I've read, is that Directv owns replaytv and as part of the deal of the purchase, they asked D&M continue to survice now Directv's replaytv's customers.



I hate to say this, but there is a form of cheap bankruptcy that allows sellers to buy the firm's assest, but none of the liability. I know this first hand.


Basically it means all vendors, suppliers, and customers contracts remain with the old company, not the new one. There is no declaration, no court proceedings. It means the owners have sold their assests with no profit and walked away. If anyone where to sue, then any proceedings are to be shared by *all* vendors and customers, thus not worth it to bring suit.


Being optimistic, its possibly that a new firm has purchased the assests and will offer a "renewal rate" to allow the units to remain in operation. But, that is likely overly optimistic.


----------



## TheWGP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeeSpotRun* /forum/post/20584489
> 
> 
> 
> The real problem is money (damages). So if you do the math, how much money could we possibly be talking about?
> 
> 
> Anyway, this is a simple case of breach of contract.
> 
> 
> I'd have to argue that the unit is only useful for its intended purpose when supplied with the guide data.
> 
> 
> If DNNA was smart, they would just release the keys and enough code so someone else can either make a free guide data program or start their own service providing guide data.



I am a lawyer, I am not your lawyer, this is not legal advice of any kind to anyone.


I actually agree with your assessment of the facts here in general, but I think it's possible to get venue moved outside of Santa Clara. Possible, but not easy... you'd have to get a ruling that the clause is unconscionable, and unless I've missed something I think CA is actually the EASIEST place to make that argument. In my state it would be greeted with something of a tepid response, I'm afraid. I've also been told CA has some of the strongest consumer class action provisions in the country in state law, so it might be worth researching what exactly those are - like you, I'm not a CA lawyer.


Is there any accurate estimate of the ReplayTV sales / subs / so on? It's possible alleging a figure that COULD be possible might be enough to get into fed ct, which would be far more likely to prompt a settlement. Might be a question as to settlement before class certification, though, if the numbers don't look good, but that's all tactical stuff at that point.


The guide data argument is a winner I think, because the guide data is what differentiates a DVR from a simple VCR with a hard drive. Have to be pretty certain that the value of the box without guide data is much less than the box with guide data, so that's a great way to make that showing. Could be a potential avenue for damages too, since there's an actual harm & economic loss happening directly as a result of the loss of guide data... have to figure out a way to value that though.


Gotta figure DNNA or some parent has a staff attorney to handle the stupid small claims court stuff, though I agree multiples could get their attention and airfare adds up if they send them out. Besides, there's plenty of cases where small claims filed against corps just get settled via mail once they get served OR they don't send anyone, you get your judgment and then the enforcement process is beyond most folks without a lawyer, especially since DNNA is likely out of state and there's an intimidation factor.


I concur that the smart thing for DNNA to do here is release the keys, at the very least, and whatever else. You'd have to ask the technical people here what would suffice. If I'm DNNA, I have to think that if two separate lawyers have already at least tossed around the idea and feasibility of a suit, on a pretty niche forum, there have GOT to be more out there - and what are the odds none of them are in CA?


----------



## elorimer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20587220
> 
> 
> I hate to say this, but there is a form of cheap bankruptcy that allows sellers to buy the firm's assest, but none of the liability. I know this first hand.



There is a bit of a chain to follow here, I think. Sonicblue was the entity that sold the lifetime service. If I recall correctly, it went into bankruptcy, and D&M bought "the business" out of bankruptcy--or maybe just certain parts of it. Whether it assumed the obligation to fulfill the lifetime service, and for how long or under what conditions, would be a question of the purchase agreement and the bankruptcy order approving it; what happened to Sonicblue's own obligation would be a function of the bankruptcy plan.


When D&M sold the ReplayTV assets to DirecTV, it would be just an asset purchase agreement, under which DirecTV may have assumed some or none of any liabilities, including the obligation to fulfill the lifetime service.


The exception would be if the buyer were considered a "successor" to the business, and under some state laws the successor might have continuing liability, such as product liability and warranty obligations.


----------



## elorimer

I'm a little slow on the uptick, as I've just realized lifetime units need to be reactivated too, something that came to my attention just now my lifetime unit is squawking that the servers are down.


So another aspect of this is that I have a lifetime ReplayTV in a vacation house that I will not have access to until October at the earliest. So it is in danger. D&M has left me too little time.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWGP* /forum/post/20587286
> 
> 
> The guide data argument is a winner I think, because the guide data is what differentiates a DVR from a simple VCR with a hard drive. Have to be pretty certain that the value of the box without guide data is much less than the box with guide data, so that's a great way to make that showing.



It isn't just the guide data, it is the clock. Without the clock, it is worse than a VCR since you can manually set the clock with a VCR and then program it to record whenever you want - single or series (and some of the later ones could even change channels as part of the programming). Without the clock and the ability to enter channel numbers manually, it is worse than a VCR. (And I guess I could always hook up my VCR again.)


----------



## Fool




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20575036
> 
> 
> Does WiRNS have to be run on a PC 24/7 for it to work? In other words, do I have to keep a PC running all the time for this to work as a replacement for the ReplayTV guide?



Could we setup WiRNS on a public IP address so lots of folks could connect to it instead of running their own private WiRNS?


----------



## slprp1

I apologize if this has been covered here already, but....


The on screen (makes me sick everytime I see it) message states that the EPG will dissapear after 7/31. It also states that the unit will continue to function as a "manual" recorder.

My concern's are:

A) Will the clock continue to function (otherwise manual recordings won't function)?

B) What happens when channels change and/or increase on a cable system and need to be updated (without accurate channel info. manual recordings are of no value)?

C) What happens when local phone numbers change and require updating?


I'm sure there are other questions/issues regarding this but my frustration is interfering with my train of thought!


I'm now wondering if by "_*manual recording*_" they mean choosing an input (or channel 3/4) and then manually changing the cable box channel or setting a timer on the cable box (if it even exists, as some cable providers have eliminated or limited this feature...for example, TWC in New York City).

If this becomes the case....it will be a *nightmare* (manual recordings with IR channel changes would be somewhat acceptable)!


Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## lnoland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20586888
> 
> 
> Yup. Everything I said will apply to you, because my cableco is WOW as well. I love WOW for a ton of reasons, but I was frustrated by their lack of communication on the whole digital transition.
> 
> 
> I went to the local office a couple times to get and swap out cableCARDs, and that was my godsend--there was a guy there who knew EVERYTHING about what was going on, and he was the one who told me they were keeping the standard lineup in the clear.
> 
> 
> He even gave me a sheet outlining what frequencies, what new channel numbers, the standard lineup would use, and exactly what channels were moving when during the three month rollout.



While it didn't help you, you might be somewhat gratified to know that WOW appears to have learned from the mistakes they made in your case. I just received a letter from them which contained all those materials you only received after visiting their office and finding the right person. Of course, that doesn't surprise me at all because it was pretty obvious to me from the first day I dealt with them, that WOW is not a typical cable company -- their respect for their customers goes well beyond anything I have seen in any other cable company. That's not to say that it's perfect -- it's more just a case that all of the other companies are really, really bad -- but it is pretty decent.


My first experience with them had me asking them the same questions repeatedly, in disbelief:


WOW: What time would you like us to be there for the installation.

Me: You mean what day?

WOW: What time?

Me: You mean, like AM or PM.

WOW: No, what time?

Me: You mean time of day? Like 05:00PM.

WOW: Yes, do you want us to be there at 05:00PM.

Me: No . . . so you're telling me that if I choose a time you will be here at that time? It's not like, sometime between 08:00am and 05:00pm or sometime before noon? You are going to show up here at a specific time of day and I'm not going to have to miss most of a day of work waiting on you?

WOW: Yes, what time would you like us there?

Me: Just a minute . . . I am talking to a cable TV company aren't I?

WOW: Yes. What time would you like us to install your cable.

Me: Do you install on Saturdays?

WOW: We can install on Saturdays.

Me: Can you come at 3:00PM this Saturday.

WOW: Of course. We will see you at 3:00PM on Saturday.


I just about croaked when I looked out the window at 2:55PM Saturday and their truck was sitting in front of my house with the installers waiting for 03:00pm to roll around. Then when the installers were not only highly efficient and helpful but also seemed to know their stuff really well, I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone.










- Les


----------



## adam1991

The telling story is that they ALWAYS put on those little booties before entering the home--even when I'm standing on my hardwood floor telling them not to worry about it, they can't do any worse than what the kids do.


----------



## ekl

When I turned on my ReplayTV (4500) today the Programming Guide Service termination warning appeared again. When I navigated to my Replay Guide all of my recorded programs were gone. Has anyone else seen this? Could this be triggered by some sort of software download from DNNA? Is this related to the upcoming Service termination or just an unfortunate coincidence?


Is there any way to recover my programs?


----------



## adam1991

Warm reboot it. If that doesn't do anything, cold reboot it.


I've had this happen before, and a warm reboot fixed it. Don't panic, don't ascribe this to anything other than normal Replay gotchas.


----------



## medtaylor

As usual during random intervals, I get the guide is going down on 31 July message. But I also got another message as well. It asked me to confirm service activation. So I pushed the button and it later came back and said it could not confirm and would try again later.


Has anyone else gotten this message? I have a lifetime box and have been using it for years (I did replace the hard drive a year or so ago) and confirmed activation at their web site. Odd but not unexpected.


----------



## vickhirani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jptsetme* /forum/post/20584256
> 
> 
> I like this idea a lot.
> 
> 
> It seems quite plausible that there are buffer overflow vulnerabilities in some of the shell commands. If we could identify a buffer overflow vulnerability, we could craft a payload to pass via commandline (sent to the replay to execute as part of the getshellcmds.pl response from RNS which WiRNS will be proxying). Then we just craft the payload to contain the instructions to call the set time API (which can presumably be taken from the existing binary that calls it when the signature check is validated).
> 
> 
> I say "we", but I don't even have a Replay anymore. Still interesting to talk about.
> 
> 
> All of this is far less favorable than D&M releasing the keys (a decision they are undoubtedly reconsidering right now). *Please keep calling to complain*, and be sure to let them know that you purchased a "product lifetime subscription fee" (as seen here until they take it down, though it's cached as well.) If they understand that releasing the keys will discourage many existing users from joining in a lawsuit, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to release them.



I agree about complaining. Perhaps they will refund said product lifetime subscription fee


----------



## glenburg

i got the same message about confirm activation. i hit remind me later, then i did a netconnect. it has not returned since. i have been using wirns for probably 4 years or more. wirns is only active for the 5 minutes it takes me to update my two replays daily.


----------



## lbjack

Hey, many thanks for the detailed look at the alternatives. Seems TiVo has its supporters and detractors. Maybe the best route is to try to get WiRNS/SS to work. Then back up to TiVo.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slowbiscuit* /forum/post/20586325
> 
> 
> Given that the previous-gen Series3 Tivos can be had with lifetime for less than $400 used on fleabay, it's not that difficult a choice to switch if you don't want to rely on using WiRNS on a PC.



Side note: If one goes with a Series3 TiVo instead of a TiVo HD and wants to use both tuners, you must rent TWO S-Cards or M-Cards (see http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/136/ ), which could make it more costly to operate. IIRC, it's a hardware limitation.


With TiVo HD, you only need a single M-Card or two S-Cards.


I don't believe most cable providers even provide S-Cards anymore. They're outdated.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *medtaylor* /forum/post/20588335
> 
> 
> As usual during random intervals, I get the guide is going down on 31 July message. But I also got another message as well. It asked me to confirm service activation. So I pushed the button and it later came back and said it could not confirm and would try again later.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else gotten this message? I have a lifetime box and have been using it for years (I did replace the hard drive a year or so ago) and confirmed activation at their web site. Odd but not unexpected.



This happened to my dad yesterday. Although it said the RTV couldn't be confirmed, it still said he was Activated under System Info, so nothing was really inoperable on that unit.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *glenburg* /forum/post/20588361
> 
> 
> i got the same message about confirm activation. i hit remind me later, then i did a netconnect. it has not returned since. i have been using wirns for probably 4 years or more. wirns is only active for the 5 minutes it takes me to update my two replays daily.



I assume though since WiRNS pushes, the RTVs still try to netconnect on their own at the random times they are programmed to do so. What does your RTV do at those times? Is it still connecting to DNNA? Do you get a "could not connect" notice?


----------



## Lark888

Hmmm, does the need to activate by July 31 also mean that I should activate with a backup hard drive or image the "activated" version before it fails?


Will a backup hard drive function without calling the potentially absence 'mothership' server when installed in 2012/2013?


It looks like I've got more work to do in the next few weeks.


----------



## glenburg

yes sometimes i get a could not connect, but if you look at wirns log, it shows the 'next connect' time. for me that has always been the same and i usually will turn wirns on around that time and do a manual net connect, by using configuration/replays/netconnect. been doing it this way for many years.


----------



## OldRelayer

I am sorry if I am touching on something already discussed in this thread, it is so large, I can't read all the posts.


I actually have 3 2000 showstoppers, why? Because they had lifetime program guide. When we bought the first two about 12 years ago it was more than the TiVo machines, but was worth it because you could make it up pretty quickly in program guide charges.


Now I have 3 doorstops, I am pissed to say the least. I am willing to go in on a class action suit, I am sure we could win, win what I am not sure. Just requires a Lawyer that is willing to take a percentage, most any of them will do that, you just have to negotiate a good deal so the Lawyer doesn't get most of it while you get nothing.


Please, email me at [email protected] and we can get things started. We would also need some kind of mechanism to get the word out, I guess facebook or twitter is good for that kind of thing, I don't do any of that so it would take someone that really knows how to get the most out of these social networking sites.


I am not sure how people that pay for programming would fit in, I think we lifetime subscribers stand a better chance of getting some monetary compensation.


Let me know and we can get started. If there is alread something going on please let me know so I can join that group.


Thanks,

Barry


----------



## jonwz

I own two showstoppers and one Replaytv.


I wonder if the legal issues are different given that one company - Panasonic still exists, and the other Replaytv has been legally sliced and diced.


I'd request that all showstopper owners contact Panasonic


ShowStopper® Hard Disk Recorder

888-726-2377 - tech support, showstopper,

Hours of Operation

Mon-Fri 9:00 AM-9:00 PM, EST

Sat-Sun 10:00 AM-7:00 PM, EST


Open a case if the tech gives you the same canned line that "we depend on support from replaytv". Request a supervisor and remind them that we bought lifetime service from panasonic, the replaytv company is their problem.


If enough people pressure Panasonic, maybe they will keep the lifetime service up. It would probably be more work to limit it to showstoppers vs all activated units, so we all could benefit.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OldRelayer* /forum/post/20589328
> 
> 
> I am sorry if I am touching on something already discussed in this thread, it is so large, I can't read all the posts.
> 
> 
> I actually have 3 2000 showstoppers, why? Because they had lifetime program guide. When we bought the first two about 12 years ago it was more than the TiVo machines, but was worth it because you could make it up pretty quickly in program guide charges.


----------



## Tirebiter

I realize I'm only a very anxious bystander who really won't be able to alter the eventual outcome of this mess, but...


Instead of hoping that the encryption key is revealed by hook or crook, and DNNA won't give it up willingly, what about if a request is made for them to send out one last image that simply has encryption removed from the clock setting function? And of course the long promised fix to the double select bug.


----------



## jpinwv304

Reviewing the Internet I came across this link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1341825&page=3 


Revewing link #69 shows over 28,000 users.


Yes many people have several units, but each connected unit is a customer.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OldRelayer* /forum/post/20589328
> 
> 
> I am sorry if I am touching on something already discussed in this thread, it is so large, I can't read all the posts.
> 
> 
> I actually have 3 2000 showstoppers, why? Because they had lifetime program guide. When we bought the first two about 12 years ago it was more than the TiVo machines, but was worth it because you could make it up pretty quickly in program guide charges.
> 
> 
> Now I have 3 doorstops, I am pissed to say the least. I am willing to go in on a class action suit, I am sure we could win, win what I am not sure. Just requires a Lawyer that is willing to take a percentage, most any of them will do that, you just have to negotiate a good deal so the Lawyer doesn't get most of it while you get nothing.
> 
> ...



There were two posts by lawyers earlier in this thread. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...r#post20587286 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...r#post20584489 .


IANAL and personally (although my post might offend the lawyers here), you're wasting your time. You got up to 12 years of service out of those first Replays. How much could you expect to collect even if a lawyer did it pro bono? You think that providing 12 years of service in the form of guide data, running the servers and paying for the dialup nodes cost nothing? (TiVo's could be bought w/lifetime service at the beginning.)


Let's say Replay originally intended the boxes to last 10 years, I think they could argue that you already got more than you "lifetime's" worth. Let's say they intended to have them last 15 years instead, so you then might be entitled to the remaining 3 years.


Have you ever been a recipient of "benefits" or damages as a class action lawsuit member? I have. Sometimes I've got ZIP because I didn't qualify according to their criteria (in one case, for IBM "Deathstar" hard drives, even if I qualified, I'd have received some backup software and a pack of CD-R blanks). Other times, the compensation would be so tiny, it wasn't even worth my effort to find all the documentation and mail it in.


If you're the originator of the suit (lead plaintiff?), you might get more. While I don't want to drag a debate about gas mileage and EPA tests into this, you might find the Honda mileage class action lawsuit mentioned at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34865148...consumer_news/ insightful.


I found the comment at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...y#post20574308 funny. As you well know, Replay has changed hands a bunch of times after going through a pretty rocky history.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20589084
> 
> 
> I assume though since WiRNS pushes, the RTVs still try to netconnect on their own at the random times they are programmed to do so. What does your RTV do at those times? Is it still connecting to DNNA? Do you get a "could not connect" notice?



WiRNS configures the RTVs to net connect at specific times. That's what allows you to be able to only have WiRNS running during those times...


Henry


----------



## Ed Rempalski

I'm building a little fanless/SSD ultramicro palm sized PC to run WIRNS, hoping to just let it run always, pulls under 10W. It says it will support Win7, we'll see.


I dug out my 2 spare 4500's from storage, NIB, and fired them up for the first time. They both activated and downloaded new software as well. Fingers crossed that all this stuff will still work after rapture.


If not I guess I'll go to a 7MC, Ceton4 card, and a horking RAID. Then use the ultra micro as a client in another room.


----------



## RChobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ed Rempalski* /forum/post/20590643
> 
> 
> I'm building a little fanless/SSD ultramicro palm sized PC to run WIRNS, hoping to just let it run always, pulls under 10W. It says it will support Win7, we'll see.
> 
> 
> I dug out my 2 spare 4500's from storage, NIB, and fired them up for the first time. They both activated and downloaded new software as well. Fingers crossed that all this stuff will still work after rapture.
> 
> 
> If not I guess I'll go to a 7MC, Ceton4 card, and a horking RAID. Then use the ultra micro as a client in another room.



Ed,

Do you mind listing the components? 10W sounds good.


----------



## tonedeafdan

I wonder how many Replays are still connecting? Obviously DNNA knows *exactly* how many still connect to their servers but pretty unlikely they will release that information. It would be nice to know.


----------



## RChobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20590485
> 
> 
> WiRNS configures the RTVs to net connect at specific times. That's what allows you to be able to only have WiRNS running during those times...
> 
> 
> Henry



Henry, help this newbie out..........

Where/how do you set the connect times?


----------



## glenburg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20590818
> 
> 
> Henry, help this newbie out..........
> 
> Where/how do you set the connect times?



I believe it is in the main wirns configuration page; if not it will be in guide data; but it does not matter. just start wirns, click on administration, then update guide, wait for that to finish, then click on configuration menu, then replays, on that screen click on 'netconnect' for which ever replay you want to update. when they are done just close wirns. worst that will happen is you get a message about not being able to connect every now and then. or you can do the net connect from the tv, just hit 243 then zones key, then select net connect.


----------



## 4302933

Panasonic ShowStopper PV-HS2000


RIP 7/31/11



http://imgur.com/gLbMi.jpg%5B/IMG%5D



Forget class action, I'm going to file in small claims court. Way easier, and the only way to get my money back. Lifetime activation? LOL.


1. fill out the court form

2. go to courthouse, pay $25 fee

3. notify panasonic with registered mail, from the court for $10.00 dollars

4. get court date

5. wait for panasonic to contact me with offer of $500 settlement money


----------



## DrJoe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwerdna* /forum/post/20590406
> 
> 
> There were two posts by lawyers earlier in this thread. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...r#post20587286 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...r#post20584489 .
> 
> 
> IANAL and personally (although my post might offend the lawyers here), you're wasting your time. You got up to 12 years of service out of those first Replays. How much could you expect to collect even if a lawyer did it pro bono? You think that providing 12 years of service in the form of guide data, running the servers and paying for the dialup nodes cost nothing? (TiVo's could be bought w/lifetime service at the beginning.)
> 
> 
> Let's say Replay originally intended the boxes to last 10 years, I think they could argue that you already got more than you "lifetime's" worth. Let's say they intended to have them last 15 years instead, so you then might be entitled to the remaining 3 years.
> 
> I found the comment at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...y#post20574308 funny. As you well know, Replay has changed hands a bunch of times after going through a pretty rocky history.



You make some good points, I'd also like to point out that "lifetime" is a nebulous legal concept. Companies "end of life" products all the time -- when they are still functional and in the field. I have quite a few pieces of computer electronics which continue to function but have been EOL'd by their manufacturers. Under several definitions of lifetime, the lifetime of ReplayTV could be said to be over. DNNS could argue that any ReplayTV unit that has had a replacement hard drive or power supply is beyond its reasonable lifetime (you could argue a lifetime of 5 years because of the heat/use of the hard drives). They ARE arguing that the lifetime has been reached because ReplayTV doesn't handle ATSC or HD (take a look at the replaytv.com -- this is their message).


Let's say that you file a lawsuit. DNNS' lawyers will go in front of the judge and say "We kept the service going well beyond the reasonable lifetime of the units" and "the lifetime is over." What judge or jury would assign damages?



Joe


----------



## mulox

That is really twisting the definition of "lifetime" around quite a bit. I don't know what book some of you guys are using, but lifetime to me does not have a finite time period that expires... lifetime means forever, as long as I own the unit, period. Not when someone decides what is reasonable or when technology has advanced or some other BS. If they only thought it was going to last 15 years, they should have sold it as a 15-year contract, not "lifetime".


----------



## newRTVuser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mulox* /forum/post/20591333
> 
> 
> That is really twisting the definition of "lifetime" around quite a bit.
> 
> 
> I don't know what book some of you guys are using, but lifetime to me does not have a finite time period that expires... lifetime means forever, as long as I own the unit, period



Maybe in your mind that's what "lifetime" means, but that is not necessarily accurate in a legal sense.


----------



## mulox

I guess we need to read the actual terms for lifetime service to interpret it from the lens of a court. According to what is posted here it just says "for the life of the unit" and "under the same owner"


----------



## jerry1818




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mulox* /forum/post/20591333
> 
> 
> That is really twisting the definition of "lifetime" around quite a bit. I don't know what book some of you guys are using, but lifetime to me does not have a finite time period that expires... lifetime means forever, as long as I own the unit, period. Not when someone decides what is reasonable or when technology has advanced or some other BS. If they only thought it was going to last 15 years, they should have sold it as a 15-year contract, not "lifetime".



Not trying to be a wiseguy - I'm pissed too. Let's say another 15 years has passed and you have the one and only ReplayTV in existence, would you still expect them to keep their servers up for you? For how long?

In their opinion, they've already reached that point. I work in the IT industry and I can tell you that some very expensive products reach EOL in much less time.

I don't like it, but I understand. I do think they should find some way for us to continue using the product on our own, if we choose. That's how it's done in IT. A company may stop upgrading or even supporting a product in as little as 5 years, but they don't doorstop it.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DrJoe* /forum/post/20591239
> 
> 
> You make some good points, I'd also like to point out that "lifetime" is a nebulous legal concept. Companies "end of life" products all the time -- when they are still functional and in the field. I have quite a few pieces of computer electronics which continue to function but have been EOL'd by their manufacturers. Under several definitions of lifetime, the lifetime of ReplayTV could be said to be over. DNNS could argue that any ReplayTV unit that has had a replacement hard drive or power supply is beyond its reasonable lifetime (you could argue a lifetime of 5 years because of the heat/use of the hard drives). They ARE arguing that the lifetime has been reached because ReplayTV doesn't handle ATSC or HD (take a look at the replaytv.com -- this is their message).



As a point of comparison, TiVo used to spread out their recognition of lifetime subscription revenues over a 48-month period which was their estimate of product lifetime. It was in their SEC filings. There are many boxes well past that. In doing some digging, I've found they've extended that 48-month period a bunch of times, depending on when the subscription was bought. See http://biz.yahoo.com/e/110314/tivo10-k.html . Look for the section


> Quote:
> Effective November 1, 2007, we extended the period we use to recognize product lifetime subscription revenues from 48 months to 54 months for product lifetime...



Earlier on they list that they have 310 thousand "Fully Amortized Active Lifetime Subscriptions".


So far, AFAIK, Series 1 US TiVos still function and still get guide data (which first shipped in 1999).


I hear they did screw Series 1 UK TiVo owners (but they never sold many there, AFAIK). The UK never got Series 2 or 3 TiVos but recently they did some deal w/Virgin for a new Virgin TiVo w/a different business model, IIRC. I don't know if this Virgin UK TiVo is a Series4 (like the US Premiere). I don't know the details as I don't live in the UK and thus don't care.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *4302933* /forum/post/20591033
> 
> 
> Panasonic ShowStopper PV-HS2000
> 
> Forget class action, I'm going to file in small claims court. Way easier, and the only way to get my money back. Lifetime activation? LOL.
> 
> 
> 1. fill out the court form
> 
> 2. go to courthouse, pay $25 fee
> 
> 3. notify panasonic with registered mail, from the court for $10.00 dollars
> 
> 4. get court date
> 
> 5. wait for panasonic to contact me with offer of $500 settlement money



Good luck with that. I am eager to hear what you receive.


----------



## 4302933




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwerdna* /forum/post/20591414
> 
> 
> Good luck with that. I am eager to hear what you receive.



Well Panasonic can send a lawyer to my small town's court house to represent itself, not show up and loose by default, or settle. It will be cheaper for everyone if it just pays me for breaking the lifetime contract and rendering the replaytv box useless.


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerry1818* /forum/post/20591398
> 
> 
> Not trying to be a wiseguy - I'm pissed too. Let's say another 15 years has passed and you have the one and only ReplayTV in existence, would you still expect them to keep their servers up for you? For how long?
> 
> In their opinion, they've already reached that point. I work in the IT industry and I can tell you that some very expensive products reach EOL in much less time.
> 
> I don't like it, but I understand. I do think they should find some way for us to continue using the product on our own, if we choose. That's how it's done in IT. A company may stop upgrading or even supporting a product in as little as 5 years, but they don't doorstop it.



I think you're missing a key point. This wasn't an IT product sold to CIOs. Sure, there are certain presumptions in that marketplace that condone bad behavior. They treat Moore's Law like an actual law and presume that users somehow need faster computers because they can make them.


This was a consumer product, like a TV or VCR, sold to consumers. Some consumers, fed up with cell phone companies jacking up rates, agreed to capitalize the service element. We expect forever, just like that big old SD TV in the basement. When the FCC wanted to turn off analog TV broadcast, they had to compensate millions of users by giving away free set-top boxes. When a cable company wants to get back the bandwidth it's wasting on "cable-ready" TVs, it's forking over $$$$ for oodles of "free" conversion boxes.


When the dust settles, giving the WIRNS folks a page of signing code will be a lot cheaper than their counterparts faced. There is precedent, the government routinely requires that car companies hand over "support information" so that they can't be the exclusive repair provider for your car. I'd just would have liked to see DNNA think of this before they made the box go bonkers. Don't forget to complain to your state's consumer protection agency. Mine was pretty interested. I suspect that calls from the attorney general's office get returned before calls from you and me. I think we'd be better off with injunctive relief releasing the info than money.


----------



## nutzo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerry1818* /forum/post/20591398
> 
> 
> Not trying to be a wiseguy - I'm pissed too. Let's say another 15 years has passed and you have the one and only ReplayTV in existence, would you still expect them to keep their servers up for you? For how long?
> 
> In their opinion, they've already reached that point. I work in the IT industry and I can tell you that some very expensive products reach EOL in much less time.
> 
> I don't like it, but I understand. I do think they should find some way for us to continue using the product on our own, if we choose. That's how it's done in IT. A company may stop upgrading or even supporting a product in as little as 5 years, but they don't doorstop it.



I still have an old server at the office that's almost 10 years old. It's a P3 running Windows 2000 server. The hardware is way past warranty (like my Replays), and the OS and applications are no longer supported. Yet this server is still running a couple critical custom business applications.


If they want to end support for the Replay hardware, (i.e. no more repairs) that's fine.

If they don't want to support the software, again fine.


But dropping the program guide and saying you can manually record programs basically makes the unit worthless as a DVR.

The Lifetime subscription is for the lifetime of the unit. I think they under estimated the number of units they are still in use, even though they should know how many there are based on program guide downloads.


----------



## jerry1818




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutzo* /forum/post/20591612
> 
> 
> I still have an old server at the office that's almost 10 years old. It's a P3 running Windows 2000 server. The hardware is way past warranty (like my Replays), and the OS and applications are no longer supported. Yet this server is still running a couple critical custom business applications.
> 
> 
> If they want to end support for the Replay hardware, (i.e. no more repairs) that's fine.
> 
> If they don't want to support the software, again fine.
> 
> 
> But dropping the program guide and saying you can manually record programs basically makes the unit worthless as a DVR.



Are you agreeing with me? I thought that was exactly what I said.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20590818
> 
> 
> Henry, help this newbie out..........
> 
> Where/how do you set the connect times?



Here's what I PM replied to you:


> Quote:
> Under Configuration->Guide Data, you will find "Next Call Start Time:" for setting how many minutes after the channel guide download it will schedule net connects, or you can use"Next Call Time:" if you check mark "Force Next Call Time:" and then you can set an absolute time for the net connects...



Henry


----------



## Ed Rempalski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20590697
> 
> 
> Ed,
> 
> Do you mind listing the components? 10W sounds good.



Sure, it's a Habey ultra micro PC from Newegg;


1 x ($359.99) SRV SYSTEM HABEY|BIS-6620-IV-Z530 - OEM


1 x ($27.99) NBM 2G|KST DII533 KVR533D2S4/2G SODIMM RAM


1 x ($139.99) SSD 64G|KST SVP180S2/64G RT Kingston Solid State Drive


Not cheap but it's pretty cute, it's the size of a display's VESA Mount, has HDMI video out, and claims to be able to stream and decode 1080P. I was thinking of using it as a Media Center Client if this whole Replay Plan B situation doesn't pan out.


I recently rebuilt my HTPC and added a SSD to a new Win7 motherboard. I was impressed with the new 30sec boot up! My Vista desktop takes something like 5 minutes!


----------



## jerry1818




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20591546
> 
> 
> I think you're missing a key point. This wasn't an IT product sold to CIOs. Sure, there are certain presumptions in that marketplace that condone bad behavior. They treat Moore's Law like an actual law and presume that users somehow need faster computers because they can make them.



Funny ...and true!

I guess I've come to expect this treatment.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20591546
> 
> 
> This was a consumer product, like a TV or VCR, sold to consumers. Some consumers, fed up with cell phone companies jacking up rates, agreed to capitalize the service element. We expect forever, just like that big old SD TV in the basement. When the FCC wanted to turn off analog TV broadcast, they had to compensate millions of users by giving away free set-top boxes. When a cable company wants to get back the bandwidth it's wasting on "cable-ready" TVs, it's forking over $$$$ for oodles of "free" conversion boxes.



You make some good points. I just fear there are too few of us for anyone to care. The point I was trying to make is: When ReplayTV users have dwindled to a certain number, any reasonable person would agree that the service 'lifetime' of this product has expired. That number may be the suspected 28,000 of us presently left or a thousand or a hundred or just one, but there is a number. DNNA apparently thinks that it's 28,000. You and I may not agree.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20591546
> 
> 
> When the dust settles, giving the WIRNS folks a page of signing code will be a lot cheaper than their counterparts faced. There is precedent, the government routinely requires that car companies hand over "support information" so that they can't be the exclusive repair provider for your car. I'd just would have liked to see DNNA think of this before they made the box go bonkers. Don't forget to complain to your state's consumer protection agency. Mine was pretty interested. I suspect that calls from the attorney general's office get returned before calls from you and me. I think we'd be better off with injunctive relief releasing the info than money.



It will be interesting to see how it shakes out and encouraging that the CPA was interested, but no matter how THIS ends, the end is still inevitable. Me, I'm making plans.


----------



## cwerdna

As I mentioned before, I've been using a TiVo since 2001 (using a TiVo HD) now, and have never owned Replay. This is just a FYI for those of you considering a TiVo.


One thing I will admit is annoying ever since I got my TiVo HD is detailed at http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/364 . I don't think I've had many recordings ruined (I can't even think of more than a couple) but I've been bitten by this before when watching something previously recorded. There's NO fricking way to exit. Pressing TiVo, Live TV, the d-pad, Guide, etc. doesn't do a thing.


Most of the time, the EAMs are stupid required (weekly?) test messages from a random station.


The last TiVo I actively used prior to TiVo HD was a Series 2 DirecTiVo so it could never be bit by this. It was designed long ago and I believe prior to any CableCARDs ever being available. Ditto for my Series 1s, except those were designed in 1999 or earlier.


There have been numerous complaint threads on TiVocommunity about this. Here are a few random ones I dug up on this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=468818 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=338890 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=335542 .


That said, I still LOVE TiVo. Long live the TiVolution!


----------



## adam1991

Tivo is pulling a fast one. It is NOT "required" by Cable Labs that a cableCARD compatible and equipped device do this.


My 7MC displays the alert, but everything else goes as normal.


You're getting screwed by Tivo, who just doesn't want to fix the problem.


"Well, Mr. Customer, you see, it's required by law that your car stop in the middle of the road every time you crest that hill. Nothing we can do about it."


----------



## Steevo55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20579521
> 
> 
> I've actually been logging *all* the traffic from my Replay's back to the mothership since 2004 when they pushed out 530511440 that disabled IVS/CA on the 55xx. I was using a version of the replaytv_proxy.pl script I found to send shellcmds to enable IVS/CA, and before that version was pushed to my 5504, I modified the script based upon how j.m. described how the 'no software update' WiRNS plugin worked. I've got it hooked in as a transparent proxy on my firewall, so even when I eventually switched to WiRNS, all that traffic kept going through it. I started logging the data to debug any problems I had... and just never stopped.
> 
> 
> Looking at the logs, at some point I deleted everything older than 01/01/2006. So, in case anyone really needs it, I have every byte of 214186 connections saved:
> 
> 
> $ du -sh RTV-proxy/log/
> 
> 1.2G RTV-proxy/log/



I suspect with that much logged data one of the smart guys would be able to crack the encryption.


How big is the file with all those logs?


----------



## jpinwv304

Came across this link from Flavario :

http://www.planetreplay.com/phpBB2/v...43cd99f2d30dc5 


(The ReplayTv.com site "landing" page was turned into a big ad for DirecTV and then there was a link at the bottom to continue to the ReplayTV site.)


This is the link he listed:

http://web.archive.org/web/201001052....replaytv.com/


----------



## jpinwv304

Taken from one of the links:



D&M Holdings


2-1 Nisshin-cho

Kawasaki-ku, Kawasaki-shi

Kanagawa 210-8569 Japan
www.dm-holdings.com 

Contacts:

Naoyuki Honmura (Japan)

81.44.670.1111

Gail L. Petersen (Europe & US)

1.201.762.6635

For Immediate Release

D&M Holdings Divests ReplayTV®

Tokyo, Japan, December 13, 2007 -- D&M Holdings Inc. (TSE 1:6735) announced today it

has sold most of the assets of its ReplayTV® brand company to DIRECTV Group, Inc., the

leading satellite television provider in the U.S. ReplayTV® produces digital video recorders

for the consumer market and enjoys a significant following due to its premium service and

advanced technology. The terms of the agreement were not released.


Although we valued this asset and the business was profitable, the sale of ReplayTV® to

DIRECTV makes the most sense for this business, its employees and us, said Chairman

and CEO, Eric C. Evans. We believe this transaction is a positive development for

ReplayTV® and this sale allows D&M to further direct our focus on building our brands and

executing our growth and acquisition strategies.


D&M Holdings will remain the operator of the existing service contracts for current

subscribers for the foreseeable future while DIRECTV will assume most of the other assets

of the brand company.


-moreAbout

D&M Holdings Inc.

D&M Holdings Inc. is a global operating company providing worldwide management and

distribution platforms for premium consumer, automotive, commercial and professional audio

and video businesses including Denon®, Marantz®, McIntosh® Laboratory, Boston Acoustics®,

Snell Acoustics, Escient®, Calrec Audio, Denon DJ, D&M Professional and D&M Premium

Sound Solutions. Our technologies improve the quality of any audio and visual experience.

All product and brand names with a trademark symbol are trademarks or registered

trademarks of D&M Holdings, Inc. or its subsidiaries. For more information visit www.dmholdings .

com.


Forward Looking Statement

Statements in this news release regarding D&M Holdings, Inc. that are not statements of

historical fact may include forward looking statements regarding future events or the future

financial performance of the company. We wish to caution you that such statements are just

predictions and that actual events or results may differ materially. Forward looking

statements involve a number of risks and uncertainties surrounding the integration of the

company's acquisitions, competitive and industry conditions, targeted cost savings programs,

market acceptance for the company's products, technological changes, developing industry

standards and other factors related to the company's businesses.

###


----------



## SoNic67

Agree... I have on of those lifetime boxes. I would be happy if they relese the codes and I would not claim that they need to keep the support past that point.

But who knows what is in their minds... Why cancel the support anyway - there where lots of mothly plan devices out there - I know because I have one of those too.


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutzo* /forum/post/20591612
> 
> 
> I still have an old server at the office that's almost 10 years old. It's a P3 running Windows 2000 server. The hardware is way past warranty (like my Replays), and the OS and applications are no longer supported. Yet this server is still running a couple critical custom business applications.
> 
> 
> If they want to end support for the Replay hardware, (i.e. no more repairs) that's fine.
> 
> If they don't want to support the software, again fine.
> 
> 
> But dropping the program guide and saying you can manually record programs basically makes the unit worthless as a DVR.
> 
> The Lifetime subscription is for the lifetime of the unit. I think they under estimated the number of units they are still in use, even though they should know how many there are based on program guide downloads.



If it were simply that they no longer wanted to supply the guide data, there might not be a problem. What they have done, instead, is embed a "logic bomb" in their product. When they stop responding to it the box refuses to use the guide data, even if you provide it from a different source (like Schedules Direct). This sort of behavior might be a violation of my local laws, your mileage and laws may vary.


By the way, the term "logic bomb" was their term, not mine. Apparently this sort of "manufacturer controls what customer can do with the product they bought" problem is emerging on their radar screen as an overall consumer protection issue. I think this was just a slightly more direct example than the video game industry that's raising the background noise in this area.


----------



## bankcello

I received the message about the ending of the service and would very much like to be able to continue using RTV with some of the methods that have been mentioned. However, when it comes to networking matters I am totally ignorant.


If I already have a wireless router, what piece of hardware do I need to

allow the RTV to receive its information from the web, rather than the

telephone? Also, since I no longer have the manual, how do I configure

the RTV to do that.


I very much like my old RTV and hope to be able to continue to use it.

Of course all of this is subject to whether the clock will be able to be

updated, since without that I believe we will be back to the doorstop.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bankcello* /forum/post/20593292
> 
> 
> I very much like my old RTV and hope to be able to continue to use it.
> 
> Of course all of this is subject to whether the clock will be able to be
> 
> updated, since without that I believe we will be back to the doorstop.



Your path forward will depend on what model RTV you are using.


Assuming you have a 4000 or 5000 series unit, you will need to update via WiRNS and ethernet (run a cable), and subscribe to a guide source.


Assuming you have a 2000 or 3000 series unit, you will need to build something that can answer your RTV's nightly modem connection.


2000 and 3000 owners have it easy in one way that they don't need to worry about the encryption, but have to build a modem thingy.


4000 and 5000 owners have it easy that their units support ethernet out of the box, but have to worry about the encryption thingy.


Bottom line is it may not be easy for anyone.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DrJoe* /forum/post/20591239
> 
> 
> DNNS could argue that any ReplayTV unit that has had a replacement hard drive or power supply is beyond its reasonable lifetime (you could argue a lifetime of 5 years because of the heat/use of the hard drives). They ARE arguing that the lifetime has been reached because ReplayTV doesn't handle ATSC or HD (take a look at the replaytv.com -- this is their message).
> 
> 
> Let's say that you file a lawsuit. DNNS' lawyers will go in front of the judge and say "We kept the service going well beyond the reasonable lifetime of the units" and "the lifetime is over." What judge or jury would assign damages?
> 
> Joe



I'm not convinced. I believe lifetime means "as long as I can keep the replaytv working". And when they sold these "lifetime subscriptions" I believe the plan was to be in this business for decades, and legacy customers would be supported as a neglible incremental cost above and beyond the cost of supporting new customers for their new lines of DVR's.


I certainly didn't buy my replaytv thinking I'd only get 5 years of use. And the argument that replaytv doesn't handl atsc or hd doesn't fly either. The government helped people buy converter boxes so NTSC TV sets (and indirectly replaytv) would continue to work. Also the fact that today as well as a month from now, my boxes will record TV programming and do it quite well. The boxes have plenty of life in them as long as that is still possible as evidenced by the number of people posting here WANTING to continue to use them. Most judges or juries should look at that and have to agree that these devices are still being used and CAN be continue to be used if D&M simply continues to provide the service they are responsible for delivering.


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> I'm not convinced. I believe lifetime means "as long as I can keep the replaytv working".



YOU believe, but what does the law say? Or does it address this at all?


What you or I believe is irrelevant if there is case law on the subject.




> Quote:
> Most judges or juries should look at that and have to agree that these devices are still being used and CAN be continue to be used



which is likely irrelevant to any case law on the subject.


----------



## Arvy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20593370
> 
> 
> Your path forward will depend on what model RTV you are using.
> 
> 
> Assuming you have a 4000 or 5000 series unit, you will need to update via WiRNS and ethernet (run a cable), and subscribe to a guide source.
> 
> 
> Assuming you have a 2000 or 3000 series unit, you will need to build something that can answer your RTV's nightly modem connection.
> 
> 
> 2000 and 3000 owners have it easy in one way that they don't need to worry about the encryption, but have to build a modem thingy.
> 
> 
> 4000 and 5000 owners have it easy that their units support ethernet out of the box, but have to worry about the encryption thingy.
> 
> 
> Bottom line is it may not be easy for anyone.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Do you have a link, website, or instructions on how to 'build a modem thingy'? I'm afraid my SS will need one. Thanks.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20594155
> 
> 
> YOU believe, but what does the law say? Or does it address this at all?
> 
> 
> What you or I believe is irrelevant if there is case law on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which is likely irrelevant to any case law on the subject.



Here's the thing. What I believe was based on what the company said about the service being sold. If "lifetime" means 5 years, then they should have sold a "5-year subscription".


And as was noted in an earlier respsonce, "lifetime subscriptions" meant the life of the replay and to the original owner. If/when they shut down the EPG they will have broken their contract with me. I'm looking at my receipt right now from DNNA. I paid $449.50 for a 5040 with a Lifetime service activation on 9/26/2003.


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> And as was noted in an earlier respsonce, "lifetime subscriptions" meant the life of the replay and to the original owner. If/when they shut down the EPG they will have broken their contract with me.



Are you sure? What does the law say, if anything?


What you *want* to be may not be what the law says.


If you're going to bring up contracts, be sure you know contract law or have on retainer someone who does.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20594155
> 
> 
> 
> which is likely irrelevant to any case law on the subject.



I'm no lawyer, but this seems to be a pretty clear breach of contract.


----------



## cwerdna




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20591927
> 
> 
> Tivo is pulling a fast one. It is NOT "required" by Cable Labs that a cableCARD compatible and equipped device do this.
> 
> 
> My 7MC displays the alert, but everything else goes as normal.
> 
> 
> You're getting screwed by Tivo, who just doesn't want to fix the problem.



Do you have any documentation from say CableLabs to back up your assertion?


For all I know, it is required for CableLabs certification of a TiVo box and Microsoft was able to get a waiver or wiggle around it since most Windows 7 machines don't even have tuners, let alone CableCARDs installed in some device.


----------



## jonwz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Arvy* /forum/post/20594260
> 
> 
> Do you have a link, website, or instructions on how to 'build a modem thingy'? I'm afraid my SS will need one. Thanks.



Checkout "Are there simple instructions for ReplayTV 3000 owners" in this

forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1341839 


Robert (Reden) has packaged up some software that will allow your modem equipped PC to accept the ReplayTV phone call and funnel it to WIRNS.


It's a work in progress, but If you are sharper than I, maybe you can be another one to get it to work and share the knowledge.


----------



## adam1991

I have Windows 7 Media Center, which is certified by Cable Labs and which does NOT behave this way at all.


There's no wiggle room; for the cableCARD tuner to work, the system first has to pass Digital Cable Advisor--which is the program that checks your hardware to make sure you can pass Cable Labs requirements. And it will fail you in a heartbeat.


I'm REAL sure that everyone, including Microsoft, plays closely by the Cable Labs rules.


----------



## gring40

Called ReplayTV on a whim, and reached a rep who repeated the line about future manual recording, as did his supervisor. I asked if he was a RTV user (he was) and then patiently explained (until he understood) that without a manual clock set there could be no manual recording. Told him we needed at least a software tweak to do this, and asked him to kick it upstairs as far as possible; he said he would. He also seemed to understand that this could be done ASAP, since the subscription business protected by a dial-up clock set was over. In my dreams, we'll get a software upgrade, but hey, if you don't ask ...


----------



## Murphy

Quote:

Originally Posted by *cwerdna* 
As I mentioned before, I've been using a TiVo since 2001 (using a TiVo HD) now, and have never owned Replay. This is just a FYI for those of you considering a TiVo.


One thing I will admit is annoying ever since I got my TiVo HD is detailed at http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/364 . I don't think I've had many recordings ruined (I can't even think of more than a couple) but I've been bitten by this before when watching something previously recorded. There's NO fricking way to exit. Pressing TiVo, Live TV, the d-pad, Guide, etc. doesn't do a thing.


Most of the time, the EAMs are stupid required (weekly?) test messages from a random station.


The last TiVo I actively used prior to TiVo HD was a Series 2 DirecTiVo so it could never be bit by this. It was designed long ago and I believe prior to any CableCARDs ever being available. Ditto for my Series 1s, except those were designed in 1999 or earlier.


There have been numerous complaint threads on TiVocommunity about this. Here are a few random ones I dug up on this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=468818 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=338890 http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=335542 .


That said, I still LOVE TiVo. Long live the TiVolution!
If you put an S3, HD, or Premier in Standby mode when you are not actively watching it the emergency message will not affect your recording.


----------



## mjdbb1

Where exactly is the activation information stored? I remember when I last replaced a drive on a lifetime unit, I believe I still had to activate during initial setup. If they sent out this 'permanent' activation and if that's saved in the ep-rom (which I believe I read somewhere that it is) I suppose it would be fine after 7/31. But if it's hard drive based, wouldn't we run into the problem of not being able to activate after 7/31?


If I got any details wrong please feel free to correct me...


----------



## robkwil61

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* 
Here's the thing. What I believe was based on what the company said about the service being sold. If "lifetime" means 5 years, then they should have sold a "5-year subscription".


And as was noted in an earlier respsonce, "lifetime subscriptions" meant the life of the replay and to the original owner. If/when they shut down the EPG they will have broken their contract with me. I'm looking at my receipt right now from DNNA. I paid $449.50 for a 5040 with a Lifetime service activation on 9/26/2003.
What did they tell you when you called them before you made the purchase? How did they explain "lifetime"???


I bought mine for $299 in 2004 with a lifetime subscription. Honestly, it lasted longer than I ever thought it would. I hate to see it possibly go away, but figure I got my money's worth out of it.


----------



## dstoffa

All,


I've been thinking... and the one thing we are not sure of is what happens when DNNA goes away. Was thinking, can someone run this test and predict what will happen post 7/31?


1. Set up a post 6/15 RTV to use WiRNS.


2. Set up WiRNS on a LAN. Have it fetch guide data from SD.


3. Clear the channel guide on the RTV.


4. Set up a NTP server on the LAN.


5. Disconnect the LAN from the Internet.


6. Have the RTV update.


If the RTV updates and populates the guide, then we have our answer, no?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robkwil61* /forum/post/20594992
> 
> 
> What did they tell you when you called them before you made the purchase? How did they explain "lifetime"???
> 
> .





Can't remember exactly but I think most people who bought these boxes back then would attest that it was made pretty clear that 1) you needed to pay for the program guide/activation 2)the boxes would be mostly useless with activation/epg, 3) You can pay monthly or have a one-time lifetime subscription.


I don't know if it was official policy but replaytv's with lifetime subscription could be sold on ebay and the replaytv would retain it's activation status.


When the 4k models came out, I bought one and was able to sell my 3060 on ebay for just about what I paid for it.


----------



## JJON2121

I think this is all getting way too involved. I suspect that Sonic Blue's bankrupcy made all lifetime agreements worthless.


DNNA and DirecTV probably kept the service going as long as the monthly subscriptions could support it. We may have come to the point where that is no longer the case.


----------



## Pinball Rick

I bet we can get enough users together to chip in ($10-20 each) and BUY the actual servers from DNNA before they throw them in a dumpster. Then it is just a matter of someone setting them up again and keeping them running. Hey, XMLTV are you interested??


I for one would be willing to pay a tiny monthly fee (maybe a buck or 2 a month???) To keep the DNNA EPG servers populated with "schedules direct" data and keep our units connecting and happy.


We should all call DNNA and complain about losing lifetime service. In my book, lifetime means lifetime. The more complaints they get, the better chances we have to get something done.


I suggest everyone call their state's attorney generals office and file a complaint. If enough people complain, the AG office will have to look into it. We may be able to get a court order to keep DNNA from turning off the servers until all of this is sorted out.


DNNA just decided to "pull the plug" on us. I don't think they realized how many people were going to be upset about this.


Maybe if we put enough pressure on them they may just GIVE us the hardware.


There seems to be plenty of units still in operation according to the poll thread. We have active Replaytv users in the thousands.


What do YOU think????.


----------



## adam1991

I think no one cares if anyone's "upset". This is a business decision, period.


Don't get me wrong, I love my Replays--but business is business. if you buy into a process where the hardware is nothing but a big dongle for software in the cloud that someone else holds onto and maintains, you have to expect this.


Let this be a lesson as Apple et al. try to get you to buy into the cloud. DON'T. Don't let them physically possess anything of yours and/or be the gatekeeper for you to have access to it.


----------



## bac522

Wow...haven't been in this forum in a while and haven't used my ReplayTV for a few weeks as my satellite service is not working right at the moment. This is sad to see and while I can understand the knee jerk emotional reaction of many people, at the same time we all have to realize that we got many good years out a product that, in technology time, makes dinosaurs look young!


Still, at the very least I hope DNNA at least provides one last update that really allows manual SCHEDULED recording (real-time manual recording is useless). That would leave me with a feel good attitude about DNNA and I'm one who buys products based on the reputation (or lack of) a company.


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pinball Rick* /forum/post/20596290
> 
> 
> I bet we can get enough users together to chip in ($10-20 each) and BUY the actual servers from DNNA before they throw them in a dumpster. Then it is just a matter of someone setting them up again and keeping them running. Hey, XMLTV are you interested??
> 
> 
> I for one would be willing to pay a tiny monthly fee (maybe a buck or 2 a month???) To keep the DNNA EPG servers populated with "schedules direct" data and keep our units connecting and happy.
> 
> 
> We should all call DNNA and complain about losing lifetime service. In my book, lifetime means lifetime. The more complaints they get, the better chances we have to get something done.
> 
> 
> I suggest everyone call their state's attorney generals office and file a complaint. If enough people complain, the AG office will have to look into it. We may be able to get a court order to keep DNNA from turning off the servers until all of this is sorted out.
> 
> 
> DNNA just decided to "pull the plug" on us. I don't think they realized how many people were going to be upset about this.
> 
> 
> Maybe if we put enough pressure on them they may just GIVE us the hardware.
> 
> 
> There seems to be plenty of units still in operation according to the poll thread. We have active Replaytv users in the thousands.
> 
> 
> What do YOU think????.



I don't think it's as simple as that. Since the guide data is different everywhere you need WiRNS to send you the data that matches your local TV sources. We might all need our own PC to run WiRNS.


What I like about this suggestion is that we could all share a central authorization/time server. That's the part of the interface that WiRNS passes on to DNNA today. That machine wouldn't need anything from Schedules Direct. All we'd need is the current server software, encryption keys, and a host to run it on.


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwerdna* /forum/post/20594313
> 
> 
> Do you have any documentation from say CableLabs to back up your assertion?
> 
> 
> For all I know, it is required for CableLabs certification of a TiVo box and Microsoft was able to get a waiver or wiggle around it since most Windows 7 machines don't even have tuners, let alone CableCARDs installed in some device.



I'm quite familiar with the CableCARD requirements, and I can assure you at this is required for OCUR devices, and I'm 99% certain it is also required for UDCPs (which is what the TiVo is).

Windows Media Center + an OCUR does the same thing. Some MSOs go nuts with EAS alerts. Others (like mine) barely ever send them out.


----------



## SoNic67




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20597735
> 
> 
> What I like about this suggestion is that we could all share a central authorization/time server. That's the part of the interface that WiRNS passes on to DNNA today. That machine wouldn't need anything from Schedules Direct. All we'd need is the current server software, encryption keys, and a host to run it on.



Why another "server"? Everybody has a local time that cam be syncronized for free with several atomic clocks (owned by the government, Microsoft)... WiRNS could check the time directly there.


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20597864
> 
> 
> I'm quite familiar with the CableCARD requirements, and I can assure you at this is required for OCUR devices, and I'm 99% certain it is also required for UDCPs (which is what the TiVo is).
> 
> Windows Media Center + an OCUR does the same thing.



What Media Center does NOT do is take over everything with the weather alert like Tivo does. I have full control and functionality within MC, unlike the Tivo that locks the user out as long as there is an alert.


Yes, I do get the alert. It's a banner at the top of the screen. But 7MC is fully functional at the time.


So, it's not a cableCARD requirement that the machine lock the user out when an alert is posted. That was my point.


----------



## RChobby

Holy cow...not even a week, and there are 17,000 views of this thread. ReplayTV is an amazing device to have such a loyal and continued following.


----------



## fallingwater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bac522* /forum/post/20597686
> 
> 
> ... I hope DNNA at least provides one last update that really allows manual SCHEDULED recording (real-time manual recording is useless).



Currently ReplayTV without an EPG doesn't provide TiVo's Season Pass 'smart' scheduling of course but does provide for recording at the same time any day or every day of the week and allows a user to choose the length of the scheduled recordings. It enables renaming the recording or series of recordings to whatever you want.


It doesn't require its clock to be reset to record at the correct time, just automatically compares the time NOW to the clock setting it already is using. You do have to know the offset but only have to calculate it once and then be aware of drift over time.


All this without any reprogramming or fiddling. I don't have a problem with a 'nagscreen' display when a user selects the 'program guide' option when there isn't one. Hopefully DNNA will provide a s/w download before 7-31 for user clock setting but on balance what we're getting ain't bad for free!

---

When the digital experts here come up with a simple procedure to use WiRNS EPG data I'll look at the directions or consider paying for the installation at a fair price. Of course YMMV!


----------



## gring40

Anyone know of a software mod that allows Showstoppers to rename manual recordings?


----------



## jdavisatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20597735
> 
> 
> I don't think it's as simple as that. Since the guide data is different everywhere you need WiRNS to send you the data that matches your local TV sources. We might all need our own PC to run WiRNS.
> 
> 
> What I like about this suggestion is that we could all share a central authorization/time server. That's the part of the interface that WiRNS passes on to DNNA today. That machine wouldn't need anything from Schedules Direct. All we'd need is the current server software, encryption keys, and a host to run it on.



what about the current domain/IP that the 4k/5k boxes call - could we petition to have that turned over to another location, a device running a "public" WiRNS machine??


----------



## hotco




bac522 said:


> Wow...haven't been in this forum in a while and haven't used my ReplayTV for a few weeks as my satellite service is not working right at the moment. This is sad to see and while I can understand the knee jerk emotional reaction of many people, at the same time we all have to realize that we got many good years out a product that, in technology time, makes dinosaurs look young!
> 
> 
> 
> I've never had my ReplayTV record a repeat show during a first run, a common complaint of modern Tivo users. If I have had show conflicts I search and repeat record another time slot when the first runs are re-broadcast, something I am not sure Tivo can do...and there is this little feature called COMMERCIAL ADVANCE that still works quite a lot....of course only dinosaurs hate to watch commercials. That's why modern technology evolved to eliminate commercial advance...or was that why Replay TV was almost litigated out of existence in the first place?
> 
> 
> If Wirns/Schedule Direct could form a joint venture, negotiate a price to buy whatever they needed from DNNA and post the price with a request for donations for a lifetime service, I bet they could raise the money in a pretty short time, if the cost was not outlandish. Are there any projected numbers for it? Essentially lifetime users would have to re-up their subscriptions, maybe in the Tivo $400 range. Even though you would not have HD (supposedly why Replay decided to stop the EPG), the "dinosaur" features would be worth it.


----------



## jdavisatl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RSaunders* /forum/post/20597735
> 
> 
> I don't think it's as simple as that. Since the guide data is different everywhere you need WiRNS to send you the data that matches your local TV sources. We might all need our own PC to run WiRNS.
> 
> 
> What I like about this suggestion is that we could all share a central authorization/time server. That's the part of the interface that WiRNS passes on to DNNA today. That machine wouldn't need anything from Schedules Direct. All we'd need is the current server software, encryption keys, and a host to run it on.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdavisatl* /forum/post/20600900
> 
> 
> what about the current domain/IP that the 4k/5k boxes call - could we petition to have that turned over to another location, a device running a "public" WiRNS machine??


 http://whois.domaintools.com/replaytv.net 


Domain Name.......... replaytv.net

Creation Date........ 1998-06-25

Registration Date.... 2010-06-04
*Expiry Date.......... 2012-06-25*

Organisation Name.... The DIRECTV Group, Inc.

Organisation Address. 2230 East Imperial Hwy

Organisation Address.

Organisation Address. El Segundo

Organisation Address. 90245

Organisation Address. CA

Organisation Address. UNITED STATES


----------



## rbolen70

I just left my second voice mail for Michael Begala. He must be checking his vmail, because his mailbox is never full.


Ryan


----------



## adam1991

And guess what? He doesn't care--not about this situation, not about this forum, not about its users.


Nor would you, if you were him.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rbolen70* /forum/post/20601891
> 
> 
> I just left my second voice mail for Michael Begala. He must be checking his vmail, because his mailbox is never full.
> 
> 
> Ryan



Or this is his "public" voicemail, and messages are delivered to /dev/null.


----------



## lcdvspls

Guys, i have 2 5080 units unopened and never connected. Can i get in before Jul 31st or am i looking at 2 doorstops?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lcdvspls* /forum/post/20602142
> 
> 
> Guys, i have 2 5080 units unopened and never connected. Can i get in before Jul 31st or am i looking at 2 doorstops?



I believe the community has determined that never-activated Repays are door-stops.


You might as well try to activate them (by hooking them up and going through Quick Set-up). If they were refurbished, they may be in the system, and can be made "ACTIVATED."


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## lcdvspls




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20602152
> 
> 
> I believe the community has determined that never-activated Repays are door-stops.
> 
> 
> You might as well try to activate them (by hooking them up and going through Quick Set-up). If they were refurbished, they may be in the system, and can be made "ACTIVATED."
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Unfortunately, they are brand new. I will still try activating to see if i can get in. Thanks.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20602152
> 
> 
> I believe the community has determined that never-activated Repays are door-stops.
> 
> 
> You might as well try to activate them (by hooking them up and going through Quick Set-up). If they were refurbished, they may be in the system, and can be made "ACTIVATED."



Actually, after some people reported that they were able to get their never activated units to activate, I tried my never activated unit, and it ACTIVATED! So, it may be that a never activated unit takes a little time, like maybe over night to get into their activation system. Or, that I tried it before they were activating everyone and now they are activating everyone right off the bat...


So, my suggestion would be to try to activate the unit. If it doesn't activate, try again. If it still doesn't activate, go ahead and peform a software update (2-4-3-Zones) and a net connect. And, then try to activate it again the next day...


Henry


----------



## boywonder

I have 4 lifetime 5XXX units and one additional refurbed 5040 that has is not lifetime activated sitting in the closet.


I connected the refurbed 5040 and it activated. Of course, since it's refurbished, in a prior life that machine may have been used by someone else paying monthly and may have already been in the system......


----------



## gatomon

... everything could be made to work again. Including activation and EPG/clock update. In fact, the software on the box could be updated to fix/update things if we so wished (e.g., make the clock update use ntp rather than a special security time server).


I'm cautiously optimistic we can break the EGS (El Gamal Signature) system. We still new a few things to help, but the hard part is done! (see: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1342976 )


-Chris










PS: I'm talking about 5xxx's, less clear about 4xxx's.


PSS: If anyone has a copy of eg_verify.c please contact the group (or me, if you want privacy). Thanks!


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Oh, crap, I was assuming all this stuff would aslo apply to my 4k box. That'll suck if we don't have the resources to also fix those boxes too.


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gatomon* /forum/post/20603480
> 
> 
> PSS: If anyone has a copy of eg_verify.c please contact the group (or me, if you want privacy). Thanks!



I found a copy. It's in the El Gamal thread


----------



## t.d.

As far as I know, the same signing key is used for the 4xxx series and the 5xxx series.


TD


----------



## gatomon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *t.d.* /forum/post/20603778
> 
> 
> As far as I know, the same signing key is used for the 4xxx series and the 5xxx series.
> 
> 
> TD



Hope it's true.


-Chris


----------



## fallingwater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20602252
> 
> 
> Actually, after some people reported that they were able to get their never activated units to activate, I tried my never activated unit, and it ACTIVATED! So, it may be that a never activated unit takes a little time, like maybe over night to get into their activation system. Or, that I tried it before they were activating everyone and now they are activating everyone right off the bat...
> 
> 
> So, my suggestion would be to try to activate the unit. If it doesn't activate, try again. If it still doesn't activate, go ahead and peform a software update (2-4-3-Zones) and a net connect. And, then try to activate it again the next day...
> 
> 
> Henry



Yup! Yesterday I activated a never activated RTV 4504 I p'd/u on eBay a few years ago for $36.


I can see why DNNA wants out of being eaten alive by customer support. If I didn't know what to expect I'd have called them and called them and called them.


At first the phone connection failed to go through and it couldn't establish one through the LAN. After several attemps (monitored with a speakerphone to prove there was dialtone) the 800# came up with the local phone connection. Then a couple of attempts failed midcall with an unexpected error message. After several hours guide info was successfully downloaded with old s/w. The only way to get a download at that point was through 243 zones; it wasn't offered on the Set-up menu.


After I verified the LAN connection worked fine with other devices the 4504 still wasn't able to automatically get an IP address via ethernet. I set up a static address, which worked, and sped up the s/w update process considerably. It still took about an hour and hung at 99% a long time.


Finally it presented a 'nagscreen' and the 4504 could be reset to enable the router to auto-assign a LAN IP.


Wasn't fun!


----------



## Tirebiter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SoNic67* /forum/post/20597919
> 
> 
> Why another "server"? Everybody has a local time that cam be syncronized for free with several atomic clocks (owned by the government, Microsoft)... WiRNS could check the time directly there.



Probably the biggest gain that I would expect is that if these servers are like 90% of the ones I've seen at dozens of different companies, they are like an archaeological dig site. People are adverse to removing even obsolete code and data files that aren't interfering with anything. The potential for finding valuable buried treasure is quite high.


----------



## jmarlowe

I'm trying to convince myself it's a coincidence that one of my 4500s just went bad. I found it in a hung reboot last night and now it sounds like a meat grinder. My first thought was that it received some kind of update that screwed up the reboot. But that's not possible, right?


Oh well, onward and upward now, no Wirns in my future.


----------



## hdonzis

The meat grinder noise should be your first clue!







Replace the hard drive...


Henry


----------



## cwerdna

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hotco* 
I've never had my ReplayTV record a repeat show during a first run, a common complaint of modern Tivo users. If I have had show conflicts I search and repeat record another time slot when the first runs are re-broadcast, something I am not sure Tivo can do...and there is this little feature called COMMERCIAL ADVANCE that still works quite a lot....of course only dinosaurs hate to watch commercials. That's why modern technology evolved to eliminate commercial advance...or was that why Replay TV was almost litigated out of existence in the first place?
The first issue happens on TiVo when there's insufficient detail/info in the EPG data, so it records all occurences, to be on the safe said. I believe this happens for shows like The Daily Show (I don't watch it so I have no SP for it). The dupe recordings does NOT happen for most shows.


TiVo not recording duplicates by default (when there's sufficient guide data) is otherwise known as the "28 day rule" (as mentioned at http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/340 ). Someone else in the thread took issue w/the "rule" and I elaborated at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20584884 .


As for the 2nd item, when you set a SP on TiVo, if there's a conflict and something else is of higher priority, it will automatically record a repeat (assuming it doesn't get trumped by other things of higher priority). You don't need to do anything nor search again.


As for commercial advance, well, unfortunately, it seems that feature along w/being able to transfer shows to others users is part of what stoked the wrath of Hollywood/content producers and got them into financial trouble.


----------



## Daren Dahl

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* 
If/when they shut down the EPG they will have broken their contract with me. I'm looking at my receipt right now from DNNA. I paid $449.50 for a 5040 with a Lifetime service activation on 9/26/2003.
"Lifetime" on the box and on the receipt was simply a marketing term. The law will apply to the fine print, if there was any.


Just in case you haven't figured this out yet, your mobile phone plan is not "unlimited" despite what your phone carrier told you and the $19.95/month for 150+ channels plus HBO and Showtime is also a marketing gimmick -- eventually the price goes up dramatically.


At one time, misleading advertising was illegal and prosecuted. These days it would be seen as regulation of a corporation and we all know that regulating corporations will make us communist.


----------



## noeffort

Quote:

Originally Posted by *boywonder* 
I have 4 lifetime 5XXX units and one additional refurbed 5040 that has is not lifetime activated sitting in the closet.


I connected the refurbed 5040 and it activated. Of course, since it's refurbished, in a prior life that machine may have been used by someone else paying monthly and may have already been in the system......
Same here, I had one in closet for spare parts that I never needed. just checked and its activated...


----------



## noeffort

As we stand today, is there a concrete decision if it's a go with wirns & sd?


----------



## hotco

Thanks for the Tivo info. That is good to know if I ultimately have to go that route. It is the commercial advance feature that is the key item for me and why I bought my Replay 5000 in the first place. Imagine how wide my eyes got when I discovered it time shifted too.


I have not seen a definitive solution on this thread yet and Wirns has not published anything on it. My guess it is like the year 2000 crisis when we thought the grocery store automatic doors might stop opening....ONLY WORSE for TV addicts. We will find out on 7/31/11.


----------



## rbolen70

fyi.. Mr. Begala forwarded my voice mail to someone who called me. I spoke to them and was told that I would have answer sometime next week regarding the encryption key.


Let's keep our fingers crossed!!!


Ryan


----------



## truckie36

When you talk to them again, can you find out if the nag screen will go away after 7/31?


----------



## RSaunders




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *noeffort* /forum/post/20609879
> 
> 
> As we stand today, is there a concrete decision if it's a go with wirns & sd?



According to this thread , a previous operational error has made it possible to calculate the signing key. This has been reduced to a big integer, but not yet a subroutine that could be incorporated into WiRNS. A noted early ReplayTV hacker (Todd Larason) documented that the same key is used for signing time, code, and activation. Alas, like Fermat's Last Theorem, we only have his margin notes as he passed away a few years back. Work is ongoing to see if this information can be turned into a software solution. Once something is running we can see what it fixes. I remain guardedly optimistic.


----------



## bravery




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pinball Rick*  /forum/post/20596290
> 
> 
> I bet we can get enough users together to chip in ($10-20 each) and BUY the actual servers from DNNA before they throw them in a dumpster. Then it is just a matter of someone setting them up again and keeping them running. Hey, XMLTV are you interested??
> 
> 
> I for one would be willing to pay a tiny monthly fee (maybe a buck or 2 a month???) To keep the DNNA EPG servers populated with "schedules direct" data and keep our units connecting and happy.
> 
> 
> We should all call DNNA and complain about losing lifetime service. In my book, lifetime means lifetime. The more complaints they get, the better chances we have to get something done.
> 
> 
> I suggest everyone call their state's attorney generals office and file a complaint. If enough people complain, the AG office will have to look into it. We may be able to get a court order to keep DNNA from turning off the servers until all of this is sorted out.
> 
> 
> DNNA just decided to "pull the plug" on us. I don't think they realized how many people were going to be upset about this.
> 
> 
> Maybe if we put enough pressure on them they may just GIVE us the hardware.
> 
> 
> There seems to be plenty of units still in operation according to the poll thread. We have active Replaytv users in the thousands.
> 
> 
> What do YOU think????.



I second Pinball Rick. There's a business model here. Most ReplayTV users would gladly pay a small amount per month to have their units work. Someone needs to buy the servers and put a payment plan in place!!


----------



## Space

Once the El Gamal key is widely known (and there is already enough information out there that anyone with some math skills could find it on their own), I suspect you would have a hard time with this.


In fact, any new public ReplayTV service would be in danger, since people could potentially spoof serial numbers. You couldn't tell the difference between authorized devices (the ones that are paid up) and non-authorized ones.


There are ways to resolve this somewhat, like taking a "fingerprint" of the device when it is set up (like recording the serial number, total disk space, IP address, lineups, etc.) but that would have to be worked out and would make the server more complicated.


Plus you still have to get guide data from somewhere, so you would either need a direct agreement with someone like TMS, or use a service like Schedules Direct, which would further complicate matters because you would need to maintain SD logins for various groups of RTV boxes (assuming they would even allow this).


----------



## jimrin

It's great to have a wiki for reference of the latest status. From what I can tell, there are potential issues regarding activation and the clock, but looks like both issues are close to being resolved. I assume if activation works, there will be no need to try to make copies of our hard drives as has been suggested in some of the posts. It would be great if the wiki could provide some clarity in this area. In addition, what about ReplayTV sharing? Per the other thread in avsforum, the posts are not giving a very positive outlook that this will continue to work. It would also be great if the wiki can also give a status on the outlook of ReplayTV sharing post 7/31.


Thanks!!


----------



## Space

I don't know what will become of sharing (IVS) after 7/31, but I believe it can continue to work.


IVS needs a RDDNS server to function, this server is run by DNNA and will most likely also be going away on 7/31. However there is at least one alternate server that can be used, which is run by a very nice volunteer (thanks!).


While I am not sure how things will work if we don't get the signature key stuff worked out, I am sure IVS will be fine if the signature key issues are resolved.


I think the biggest problem will be the number of people still using ReplayTVs/IVS after 7/31. I suspect that in spite of all efforts, that the number of user will drop dramatically. So there will be a lot less programming available on Poopli.


----------



## slprp1

I don't appreciate the _*vagueness*_ of the messages (both on screen and on their website) generated by ReplayTV.


Furthermore, when you contact CS, the reps are _*equally vague*_ and can't seem to clarify what _*exactly*_ is going to occur (specifically) on 7/31, leaving us to speculate and assume (two of my least favorite things to do).


If they're shutting down altogether, _why do they single out the EPG only_?

Furthermore, they discuss "_manual recording_" as an option. This _depends on the clock_ in order to function (instant recordings are useless and may not function regardless).


My observations (for what it's worth) is that they're (potentially) being intentionally vague and may be lying to us regarding the supposed "manual" recording to lessen the blow. Perhaps they're afraid to be more specific.


I'm a straight shooter and don't appreciate vagueness and (potential) BS.


Perhaps the message should read "_As of 7/31/11, your ReplayTV box will no longer function"_

....period, end of story!


I appreciate the fact that this forum appeals to technically saavy people (my compliments to you all) but what about the _*average*_ person who can't deal with alternate (PC based) options?

Could they *intentionally* be misleading the public with this "manual recording" advise?....Have they done their homework and tested this (potential) theory (in the event that they're being honest and sincere)?

_For the record_....I put the non-EPG "manual" recording process to the test by disabling the EPG (243, zones, "clear channel guide").

Yes, you can still schedule a recording, punch in the channel and it will signal the cable/satellite/OTA box to change channels. Less than ideal but still a viable option.

However, an _accurate clock_ is a _necessity_ for this to function.

The _average_ person isn't getting involved with WiRNS (or any other similar options).


If they're intentionally misleading the (average) public, then they're leaving themselves wide open for a (potential) class action lawsuit!....perhaps?....especially since the parent company (DNNA) isn't going out of business.


Why the advise about using the box as a "manual" recorder if/when they know that it's actually going to become a dust collector (again....for the average person)?


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jimrin* /forum/post/20616425
> 
> 
> It's great to have a wiki for reference of the latest status. From what I can tell, there are potential issues regarding activation and the clock, but looks like both issues are close to being resolved. I assume if activation works, there will be no need to try to make copies of our hard drives as has been suggested in some of the posts. It would be great if the wiki could provide some clarity in this area.



It's a wiki.. update it! (that's the point of it being a Wiki rather than a static web page maintained by someone else.


Robert


----------



## Ocahui




> Quote:
> (from replaytv)
> 
> After this date, owners of ReplayTV DVR units will still be able to manually record analog TV programs





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slprp1* /forum/post/20617460
> 
> 
> Why the advise about using the box as a "manual" recorder if/when they know that it's actually going to become a dust collector (again....for the average person)?



Where do you find any kind of advice in the ReplayTV statement? A statement of fact is not advice.



> Quote:
> If they're intentionally misleading the (average) public, then they're leaving themselves wide open for a (potential) class action lawsuit!....perhaps?....especially since the parent company (DNNA) isn't going out of business.



They stopped providing a "lifetime" service, so I guess there is at least a talking point WRT lifetime owners. What do you reckon the value of the loss to be? As the owner of two lifetime units, I have had a combined 96 months of service. IIRC, a month's service cost about $12. So, by at least one way of reckoning, for my $600 I received $1,152 worth of EPG. How much more value should my lawyer argue that I am entitled to? And how large a class do you reckon this to be?


All others have not lost anything except the DNNA service. They still have a box that will record and playback analog TV. Other guide services are available.


You are free to consult your attorney. Good luck to you, sir.


----------



## cwpl

This is the first I've heard about this haven't had my replays plugged in for months. Just connected with them two 50xx's and two showstoppers said was loading guide data but guides are blank and time is wrong so I guess it already stopped. How do you set the clock if you can still do manual recordings? Have not looked thru other posts yet, sure it's been asked but takes forever to load pages will start reading now.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ocahui* /forum/post/20617659
> 
> 
> 
> So, by at least one way of reckoning, for my $600 I received $1,152 worth of EPG. How much more value should my lawyer argue that I am entitled to? And how large a class do you reckon this to be?



I had a 3060 I owned for 2 years and was able to sell it for pretty much what I paid for it. The lifetime subscription doesn't lose value as you use it. It only loses value if it ceases to exist. To underscore the point, a unit with a lifetime subscription for most of the last 10 years was worth at least $300 and it didn't matter how many years that lifetime subscription had been used prior to it being sold.


----------



## boywonder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwpl* /forum/post/20618040
> 
> 
> Just connected with them two 50xx's and two showstoppers said was loading guide data but guides are blank and time is wrong so I guess it already stopped.



7/31 is the end date. Your machines should still be getting guide data. One thing that has changed is if you have lifetime 5XXX replays, on the system info screen in setup it used to say "activated-one time fee paid" will now just say "activated" after they connect and get data.


I'm not sure if anyone has figured out if this has any significance with regard to the ongoing activation issue......


----------



## cwpl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boywonder* /forum/post/20620055
> 
> 
> 7/31 is the end date. Your machines should still be getting guide data. One thing that has changed is if you have lifetime 5XXX replays, on the system info screen in setup it used to say "activated-one time fee paid" will now just say "activated" after they connect and get data.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if anyone has figured out if this has any significance with regard to the ongoing activation issue......



Finally got the 50xx's to load guide and correct time, but no go on showstoppers would go thru process only thing they got was epg ending nag screen. Even after clearing guide twice.


----------



## brosner99

Can we get a class action suit going for the lifetime subscribers? This is obviously no tobacco suit but a hundred bucks or so for 5000 lifetime subscribers might be a big enough pie to interest some beginning lawyers who want to get their feet wet in a simple class action. If Direct TV really owns Replay TV they certainly have deep enough pockets to make a worthwhile target.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brosner99* /forum/post/20622860
> 
> 
> Can we get a class action suit going for the lifetime subscribers? This is obviously no tobacco suit but a hundred bucks or so for 5000 lifetime subscribers might be a big enough pie to interest some beginning lawyers who want to get their feet wet in a simple class action. If Direct TV really owns Replay TV they certainly have deep enough pockets to make a worthwhile target.



The cost of putting such a suit together probably outweighs any possible monetary award.


I believe such a suit a waste of resources. I would compare such a suit to one against Record Companies back in 1989 for ceasing to press mass quantities of vinyl, rendering my record changer obsolete.... or a suit against Con Ed for ceasing to provide Direct Current to my home so that I can continue to run my old-school refrigerator....



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## bac522




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brosner99* /forum/post/20622860
> 
> 
> Can we get a class action suit going for the lifetime subscribers?



Lifetime subscription is a subjective term and it's generally written in such a manner that lifetime is based on what a company deems is a reasonable lifetime for the technology, not the lifetime of the subscriber. With the government switching to HTDV as a standard its highly unlikely that even the best of lawyers would be able to convince a judge that the SD quality ReplayTV is not an obsolete technology.


Simply put, class action lawsuit would have a snow balls chance in hell of winning!


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bac522* /forum/post/20622960
> 
> 
> Lifetime subscription is a subjective term and it's generally written in such a manner that lifetime is based on what a company deems is a reasonable lifetime for the technology, not the lifetime of the subscriber. With the government switching to HTDV as a standard its highly unlikely that even the best of lawyers would be able to convince a judge that the SD quality ReplayTV is not an obsolete technology.
> 
> 
> Simply put, class action lawsuit would have a snow balls chance in hell of winning!



I completely disagree. They'd be obsolete if they couldn't record content any more. Moreover, there are still plenty of SD tv's out there that look just as good with replaytv recorded content as it does with HD recorded content.


The fact that these devices are still performing a useful function is further evidence that they're NOT obsolete. All you need is one juror who has or knows someone with a SD tv still in his house that he continues to use. I'd say the odds are pretty good that would be the case. I don't think I know anyone who has exclusively HD tv's in their home. Maybe one, but most people I know have SD TV's. And at least 3 people I know don't have any HD tv sets.


The whole point of the transition to HD was to NOT make obsolete SD tv's. It was planned to give those people a way to view the new HD content on their old tv sets. You're arguing that those tv manufacturers can walk away from service contracts, warranties, or any other guarantee because these consumer products are now obsolete. I disagree.


Another way to look at it. What if you contracted to pay way more than you should have for a product that is now obsolete. The company comes to you and asks for your payment which you are suppose to pay for the next 20 years, but you want out of the contract because the service they're providing is one you no longer want. If the contract has an escape clause, you'll be ok if you qualify. But if not, that company will be taking you to court to get you to continue to make payments you've agreeed you'd pay for the next say 20 years.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20623102
> 
> 
> I completely disagree. They'd be obsolete if they couldn't record content any more. Moreover, there are still plenty of SD tv's out there that look just as good with replaytv recorded content as it does with HD recorded content.




I can no longer buy new release 45's for my record changer at will for any title that can be purchased as a single in the iTunes store. Can I sue Columbia Records, Capitol Records, et. al. for rendering my perfectly working changer obsolete?


I can no longer listen to a variety of music on my AM Radio. Can I sue (____) fill in AM station of your choice) for not playing the current hits?


Even auto manufacturers have a window on how long they must make replacement parts available. And there are third-party vendors who pick up the slack after the window sets on the OEM. Why? Because there is money to be made in old car parts. There isn't any money to be made keeping the servers running. Because in the end, this is not an argument about whether something is obsolete or not. It's all about whether or not it is fiscally possible to run a business. Apparently, the record companies realized there was no money in mass market 45's, just as DNNA realizes that there is no money paying royalties to TMS for guide data, and keeping the servers / dial-up portals on line.


Everything has a useful lifespan.



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Had you bought your record changer along with a $200 subscription from a company that was going to provide to you those 45's you wanted to play on your new turntable. Yes, you could sue that company that's no longer providing you with that service you paid them to deliver.


Your auto manufacturer example doesn't work either. If the auto manufacturer also sold you an extended warrenty and service contract to provide 10 years of oil changes and tire rotations, they can't unilaterally end that contract.


Your examples aren't appropriate because there's no contractual agreement with the record company to produce 45's and there's none with the auto manufacturer.


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Oh one more thing, then it's probably fraud if the intention was to only provide the service for as long as it is profitable and not "lifetime" of the boxes.


----------



## dstoffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* 
Oh one more thing, then it's probably fraud if the intention was to only provide the service for as long as it is profitable and not "lifetime" of the boxes.
If you read the fine print:
Quote:

G. Changes to ReplayTV Service. At its discretion, ReplayTV may automatically add, modify, or disable any feature or functionality of the ReplayTV Service

or on the ReplayTV unit (when your unit connects to our server or at other times with or without notice). In addition, ReplayTV may modify the terms and

conditions of this Agreement from time to time (and will notify you of these changes to the Agreement by either sending a notice to your ReplayTV or, in

ReplayTV's sole discretion, to the address of record that ReplayTV has for you).
This is in the Terms of Service in the back of my RTV's users manual.


Lifetime is NEVER used in the service agreement. Only a "One-Time Fee".
Quote:

Your use of the ReplayTV Service is subject to your payment of either: (1) a subscription fee in a one-time, up front payment; or (2) a

monthly subscription fee.


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dstoffa* 
If you read the fine print:



This is in the Terms of Service in the back of my RTV's users manual.


Lifetime is NEVER used in the service agreement. Only a "One-Time Fee".
Well, I paid my "one-time fee". I shouldn't have to now pay SD and set up a computer in my home to continue to get guide information.


----------



## cwpl

If nothing else they make great buffers when watching TV being capable of using all free space left on hard drive. Tivo is only 1/2 hour my cable is supposed to be hour rarely more than half though.


----------



## nutzo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bac522* 
Lifetime subscription is a subjective term and it's generally written in such a manner that lifetime is based on what a company deems is a reasonable lifetime for the technology, not the lifetime of the subscriber. With the government switching to HTDV as a standard its highly unlikely that even the best of lawyers would be able to convince a judge that the SD quality ReplayTV is not an obsolete technology.
Years ago I bought lifetime brake pads for my car. When they wore out I took them back & they gave me a 2nd set for free. After the 2nd set wore out, they said they didn't sell those pads any more so they couldn't replace them. After reminding the manager they sold these to me with a "LIFETIME" warranty, they replaced them with the pads they currently sold. Under thier Lifetime warranty, they legally had to provide me with new pads as long as I owned the car. Ended up selling the car before the 3rd set wore out, so I didn't get to test them for the 4th set.


The same rules should apply in this case. If they want to stop repairing or supporting the hardware, ok. If they want to stop monthly subscriptions, they are likely on legal ground. If they no longer allow transfers "lifetime" of accounts, again they are likely ok. But stopping a lifetime service because they no longer want to spend the money to support it, should not be legal.


As for damages, the price for used replays on ebay has dropped significantly since this announcement.


----------



## cwpl

Tivo has considerably cut back on "lifetime" sales.


----------



## 734jeant

It's now Monday afternoon. Any update on the clock issue?


Thanks.


----------



## cwpl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *734jeant* /forum/post/20625268
> 
> 
> It's now Monday afternoon. Any update on the clock issue?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Afraid not I'm watching for it too. I still think if it is possible (like with the showstoppers) they will release a update with it.


----------



## gatomon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlv* /forum/post/20579521
> 
> 
> i've actually been logging *all* the traffic from my replay's back to the mothership since 2004 when they pushed out 530511440 that disabled ivs/ca on the 55xx. I was using a version of the replaytv_proxy.pl script i found to send shellcmds to enable ivs/ca, and before that version was pushed to my 5504, i modified the script based upon how j.m. Described how the 'no software update' wirns plugin worked. I've got it hooked in as a transparent proxy on my firewall, so even when i eventually switched to wirns, all that traffic kept going through it. I started logging the data to debug any problems i had... And just never stopped.
> 
> 
> Looking at the logs, at some point i deleted everything older than 01/01/2006. So, in case anyone really needs it, i have every byte of 214186 connections saved:
> 
> 
> $ du -sh rtv-proxy/log/
> 
> 1.2g rtv-proxy/log/



jlv?


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20623870
> 
> 
> Well, I paid my "one-time fee". I shouldn't have to now pay SD and set up a computer in my home to continue to get guide information.



If you read the verbiage, it specifically says that you will only pay THEM one time for guide data, which is exactly one happened. It doesn't say anything about them providing guide data for anyone or anything's lifetime, it simply says that they will never charge you again for this service, which they haven't. There certainly wasn't any kind of guarantee of any sorts that you'd never have to pay anyone else for guide service, only that they would never charge you again for that service...


Henry


----------



## adam1991

I say we all stick our fingers into the power supply and sue...I mean, if hot coffee means a valid lawsuit...


----------



## shanem462

I tried to change the channel on one of my lifetime 50xx units and it didn't respond. Typical RTV, I thought, needs a soft reboot. When I came back, instead of the swirl screen, I had a "Quick Setup" screen. Before I could proceed, I had to accept the licensing agreement. I was warned to "READ CAREFULLY". Basically, it's similar to the agreement starting on page 61 of my 55xx manual. I'm not a lawyer, I don't even play one on tv, but it appears that the agreement has safeguards against using third party services that are "competitive" with DNNA and it makes perfectly clear that they own the software and that there is no warranty against "interrupted service". Any violation of the licensing agreement can mean "automatic termination" of the license.


I'm guessing this talk of class action suits had the DNNA legal team suggest that subscribers reaffirm their acceptance of the agreement. This particular RTV was purchased on eBay a couple of years ago. My first two RTVs were purchased new and I find this interesting: If you don't agree to the agreement, you may return the product to point of purchase or DNNA for a "full refund". I bought my second RTV directly from DNNA, if I turn down the agreement for that unit, will they refund my $450 or so I paid for a 5532? Plus the $299 "one time fee"? Somehow I think that's unlikely.


I haven't done anything with the agree or disagree screen yet.


----------



## adam1991

well, I'll be danged.


Took my 50xx that I freshly imaged, connected, and then disconnected last week, and hooked it up to see what happens.


Obviously, your experience came after an overnight connect; so, after validating that my unit was acting normally, I did a manual connect.


And not only did it connect to get schedule info, it got new software! Really? I just did all of this last week....so did the software change between then and now???


Man, took a long time for the connect to work; they're probably shoveling this out to everyone as fast as they can.


Requires a reboot. Let's see what they gave us...


Nothing obvious. No new menu items. Maybe a fresh image needs multiple, consecutive updates to be current? Did I just get the daylight savings time patch or something?


Anyway, I'm not getting the behavior you got.


----------



## RChobby

My replays are not looking to the mother ship any more, just WiRNS.


I'm wary of this latest update. One other is commenting units can't seem to activate with it?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cwpl* /forum/post/20625241
> 
> 
> Tivo has considerably cut back on "lifetime" sales.



Cut back? I think consumers just want the latest and greatest, and therefore don't see lifetime as a good option in buying. They buy a new cell phone every two years. Buy a new iPod every three years, or iPhone, or whatever.


Consumers have been trained to constantly upgrade. We have been trained not to be left behind....


I don't think Tivo has cut back on anything. I think most consumers have just abandoned it (lifetime).


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20626780
> 
> 
> well, I'll be danged.
> 
> 
> Took my 50xx that I freshly imaged, connected, and then disconnected last week, and hooked it up to see what happens.
> 
> 
> Obviously, your experience came after an overnight connect; so, after validating that my unit was acting normally, I did a manual connect.
> 
> 
> And not only did it connect to get schedule info, it got new software! Really? I just did all of this last week....so did the software change between then and now???
> 
> 
> Man, took a long time for the connect to work; they're probably shoveling this out to everyone as fast as they can.
> 
> 
> Requires a reboot. Let's see what they gave us...
> 
> 
> Nothing obvious. No new menu items. Maybe a fresh image needs multiple, consecutive updates to be current? Did I just get the daylight savings time patch or something?
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not getting the behavior you got.



What is "System Information" reporting as this updated software? What version?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## robkwil61




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20623781
> 
> 
> If you read the fine print:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> G. Changes to ReplayTV Service. At its discretion, ReplayTV may automatically add, modify, or disable any feature or functionality of the ReplayTV Service
> 
> or on the ReplayTV unit (when your unit connects to our server or at other times with or without notice). In addition, ReplayTV may modify the terms and
> 
> conditions of this Agreement from time to time (and will notify you of these changes to the Agreement by either sending a notice to your ReplayTV or, in
> 
> ReplayTV's sole discretion, to the address of record that ReplayTV has for you).



I'm not jumping on the sue 'em bandwagon but just because they put it in fine print doesn't make it necessarily legal or binding. Just like when you go to a swimming pool and they post a the sign that says "not responsible for accidents"... that actually does not release them from liability. Same situation could apply here.


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20627087
> 
> 
> What is "System Information" reporting as this updated software? What version?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



530511440.


Hang on, let me connect one of my other three that were working a few weeks ago but haven't done a net connect lately...


OK, it's the same. Connecting to service, and it's not downloading any new software.


I'm guessing that a freshly imaged unit first gets the new base software, then has to reconnect to get the DST patch.


Regardless, I'm not getting the behavior of seeing the license agreement. I don't think Replay made any changes to their system.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20627270
> 
> 
> 530511440.
> 
> 
> Hang on, let me connect one of my other three that were working a few weeks ago but haven't done a net connect lately...
> 
> 
> OK, it's the same. Connecting to service, and it's not downloading any new software.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that a freshly imaged unit first gets the new base software, then has to reconnect to get the DST patch.
> 
> 
> Regardless, I'm not getting the behavior of seeing the license agreement. I don't think Replay made any changes to their system.



Well, if you used an older version of the software to create your new hard drive, it will download the latest. (You'd use an older version if you wanted to enable CA and IVS on a 55xx box). Build 144 is the latest (the last zero doesn't count). Which image did you use? The "5k_factory_reset" one? That is the latest and greatest.


The DST patch was not a software upgrade. As long as you set up your RTV AFTER the change in DST, then there is no need to worry about it. Apparently the clock algorithms for your time zone are only updated when you change inputs / providers. That is why you needed to change the zip code / input when DST dates changed. This is a non-issue going forward for any new installations / patches.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20626780
> 
> 
> well, I'll be danged.
> 
> 
> Took my 50xx that I freshly imaged, connected, and then disconnected last week, and hooked it up to see what happens.
> 
> 
> Obviously, your experience came after an overnight connect; so, after validating that my unit was acting normally, I did a manual connect.
> 
> 
> And not only did it connect to get schedule info, it got new software! Really? I just did all of this last week....so did the software change between then and now???
> 
> 
> Man, took a long time for the connect to work; they're probably shoveling this out to everyone as fast as they can.
> 
> 
> Requires a reboot. Let's see what they gave us...
> 
> 
> Nothing obvious. No new menu items. Maybe a fresh image needs multiple, consecutive updates to be current? Did I just get the daylight savings time patch or something?
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm not getting the behavior you got.



After I load up a new image, I always have to net connect TWICE to get all the updates (like that the message about SHOW|NAV doesn't show up until after the second net connect), so I'm just used to doing this all the time. That's why I posted for people making image backups from fresh images to net connect TWICE before making the backup...


Henry


----------



## nutzo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dstoffa* 
Cut back? I think consumers just want the latest and greatest, and therefore don't see lifetime as a good option in buying. They buy a new cell phone every two years. Buy a new iPod every three years, or iPhone, or whatever.


Consumers have been trained to constantly upgrade. We have been trained not to be left behind....


I don't think Tivo has cut back on anything. I think most consumers have just abandoned it (lifetime).


Guess I'm not a good consumer as I'm still using my old 5040 & 5504 replays, using my 3 year old cell phone and driving a 9 year old car. I even still have a turn table connected to my receiver so I can play records


----------



## adam1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dstoffa* 
Well, if you used an older version of the software to create your new hard drive, it will download the latest. (You'd use an older version if you wanted to enable CA and IVS on a 55xx box). Build 144 is the latest (the last zero doesn't count). Which image did you use? The "5k_factory_reset" one? That is the latest and greatest.
I forget; I've had it for a few years.


But my point is, when I imaged a fresh 7200.7 drive, I plugged it in and did setup and it downloaded new software--which I assumed was build 144--and went about its business.


That was about 4 days ago. So this morning I plug it in again, go into net connect, and it downloads new software! And ends up where it is now.


The question is, what did it download? What triggered a download? There shouldn't have been a download AFTER the initial setup and download, right?


----------



## erickotz

You guys are dreaming if you think DNAA is going to release a software update (barring being legally compelled to). I bet they don't even have any of the software devs on staff anymore - not to mention the testing cost and time - it just won't happen.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutzo* /forum/post/20629364
> 
> 
> Guess I'm not a good consumer as I'm still using my old 5040 & 5504 replays, using my 3 year old cell phone and driving a 9 year old car. I even still have a turn table connected to my receiver so I can play records



Neither am I. I have an old Dual 1225 that I was using just last night to spin some vinyl. I keep cars until they fall apart.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## ChampaignWalt

My car is 11 years old.


----------



## replayrob

Once read a quote from the CEO of Best Buy where he referred to the people who come in and price compare, look for rebates, and only buy "on sale" items as "devil" customers. Imagine what companies think of "lifetime" sub customers who hang on for 10+ years?


----------



## jonwz

Sears still honors my lifetime wheel alignment contract on my 1985 honda prelude.


I'm disappointed I don't see any other Panasonic showstopper customers going after Panasonic to honor their lifetime showstopper contracts.


I'd think that companies with a reputation to protect would bit the bullet and continue to honor lifetime contracts.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20632598
> 
> 
> .... Imagine what companies think of "lifetime" sub customers who hang on for 10+ years?


----------



## nutzo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20632598
> 
> 
> Once read a quote from the CEO of Best Buy where he referred to the people who come in and price compare, look for rebates, and only buy "on sale" items as "devil" customers.



I resemble that remark


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20632598
> 
> 
> Once read a quote from the CEO of Best Buy where he referred to the people who come in and price compare, look for rebates, and only buy "on sale" items as "devil" customers.



Best Buy? Oh, you mean the Amazon showroom.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20634663
> 
> 
> Best Buy? Oh, you mean the Amazon showroom.



Awesome! I'll have to use that.


----------



## cwpl

Amazon east http://shopitagain.com/


----------



## Yakuman

So how close are we to a working solution for the 5000 series model that require authentication?


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonwz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sears still honors my lifetime wheel alignment contract on my 1985 honda prelude.
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed I don't see any other Panasonic showstopper customers going after Panasonic to honor their lifetime showstopper contracts.
> 
> 
> I'd think that companies with a reputation to protect would bit the bullet and continue to honor lifetime contracts.



I agree that calling Panasonic about my (still-working) Showstopper is a good idea, and will report on my tilt with that windmill.


----------



## PhotoKevin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20632598
> 
> 
> Once read a quote from the CEO of Best Buy where he referred to the people who come in and price compare, look for rebates, and only buy "on sale" items as "devil" customers. Imagine what companies think of "lifetime" sub customers who hang on for 10+ years?



You mean the Best Buy who charges more for the same stuff at the same place? When I need something quickly and Best Buy is the only answer, I can get it cheaper if I order it on line for pick up at my local store than if I go and buy it there. Someone who charges a premium for shopping in the store can think that I am a devil customer. In that instance, I think I am the devil's customer.


----------



## Murphy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PhotoKevin* /forum/post/20637086
> 
> 
> You mean the Best Buy who charges more for the same stuff at the same place? When I need something quickly and Best Buy is the only answer, I can get it cheaper if I order it on line for pick up at my local store than if I go and buy it there. Someone who charges a premium for shopping in the store can think that I am a devil customer. In that instance, I think I am the devil's customer.



If you know the online price is cheaper just tell them at the store. They will price match with their web site.


----------



## madSkeelz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Murphy* /forum/post/20637420
> 
> 
> If you know the online price is cheaper just tell them at the store. They will price match with their web site.



Just be sure to show them their site on your smartphone, not their computer.









http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n7151955.shtml


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Murphy* /forum/post/20637420
> 
> 
> If you know the online price is cheaper just tell them at the store. They will price match with their web site.



They will TYPICALLY price match with their web site. And, they will probably tell you that they are doing you a favor that they don't have a policy to price match their website. I hope everyone knows that Walmart, for exmple, specifically will NOT price match with their web site...


Henry


----------



## PhotoKevin

Attempting to charge different prices for the same box in the same store. I define this as deceptive. Best Buy, implying that those who shop and buy elsewhere customers are dishonest, has no moral ground on which to stand.


If I have to research on the web to get their best price in their store, I will then just order it for in store pickup. Then someone else goes and finds the box on the shelf and brings it to the desk ready when I walk in. It would appear to cost them more to do it this way but hey, I save the money and don't have to go through the grief of getting them to price match themselves.


Who do these people think they are? A car dealer? An airline?


----------



## dryduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PhotoKevin* /forum/post/20638294
> 
> 
> 
> If I have to research on the web to get their best price in their store, I will then just order it for in store pickup. Then someone else goes and finds the box on the shelf and brings it to the desk ready when I walk in. It would appear to cost them more to do it this way but hey, I save the money and don't have to go through the grief of getting them to price match themselves.




That is the ONLY way I will shop at Best Buy! The least time I can spend there, the better.


----------



## gring40

I'd like to respectfully suggest that helpful as this Best Buy discussion may be, I'm hoping for more input on the looming deadline, especially (or at least?) the clock issue.


----------



## wrench




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20641313
> 
> 
> I'd like to respectfully suggest that helpful as this Best Buy discussion may be, I'm hoping for more input on the looming deadline, especially (or at least?) the clock issue.



Agreed!


----------



## bernie_xg

I have seen some discussion around this, and the signing of keys and setting of time.


I have even seen a little testing about what happens post 7/31. (I am not sure how date was set)


I saw one blurb that talks about a warning message, and a final 'you are on your own' message.


Has there been any definitive testing that the replay will actually try to go out and get EPG information after 7/31? Or is there the possibility that the Replay will no longer even try to do that...


When my 5000 unit could not connect (assuming for Guide and other update information) in the past, for information (accidentally unplugged Ethernet and stuff such as that) I would see a message in messages saying something to the effect of "Could not connect to .."


To me, it stands to reason, to avoid our messages, as well as just avoiding calls to servers that may no longer be there, that there was something sent down to the replay that would tell it, stop calling home..


Anyone see any more definitive discussion on this.. Right now I am debating the wisdom putting all of my eggs in the WiRNS basket.


----------



## terabid

I have done some testing with my Showstopper.

1) when the power fails and it comes back the date and time is set to Nov 12 1999 at midnight. Therefore if you lose power best option is to restart power right at midnight and at least your time will be right. (you will manually have to account for the date)

2) My system calls in at 2AM every night. If I remove the phone cable I get an alarm for no dial tone. I don't know what will happen after Jul 31 as I will get through to the provider but the provider won't get through to Replay. I have no idea whether that will be a problem or whether that will create an alarm) I don't know how to simulate that case as Replay doesn't let me choose my own phone number. I also know no way to turn off the call at 2 AM so if I lose power it becomes more important to reset it at midnight or it might grab the phone in the middle of the day. (I guess if you get an alarm even when you do get through to the provider then you might as well pull the phone cable and clean the alarm area frequently)

3) If you use an RF blaster DO NOT EVER USE THE CLEAR FUNCTION (243 plus Replay Zones) It will kill the RF Blaster capability.

4) Even if you lose time it will have no effect on your ability to record with time (provided you make the right mental adjustments from what the machine thinks versus what is real.)

5) The record button will be useless as it requires a good Guide in order to know when to stop the recording.

6) If you want to see what the current time is on the machine use channel 243 with Replay Zones and you can toggle it. (BE VERY CAREFUL YOU DON'T USE ANY OF THE OTHER FEATURES!)

7) Losing power only loses time. It does NOT affect your configuration with your cable or satellite provider. That also appears to be true when your Guide is out of date with your time.

8) I have no idea what to do if I ever change my cable provider.


If anybody can add to this list or disprove anything I have said I would appreciate it.


----------



## Murphy

You can get the current time by pushing the Display button. No need to go into 243 Zones.


----------



## Murphy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernie_xg* /forum/post/20648757
> 
> 
> Has there been any definitive testing that the replay will actually try to go out and get EPG information after 7/31? Or is there the possibility that the Replay will no longer even try to do that...



I don't recall anyone else mentioning this possibility. It's a very real possibility as they wouldn't want all of the dial up units to continue attempting to call in. Their servers will be gone but the dial up network will still be there.


Network connects on the 5000 series would go no where on the internet but dial up connects could be a problem for the dial up network provider (whose name escapes me at the moment).


----------



## terabid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Murphy* /forum/post/20648969
> 
> 
> You can get the current time by pushing the Display button. No need to go into 243 Zones.



Interesting. This only works when the guide isn't there. Since I currently have a guide I didn't see it. I had to drop power to screw up the time to see it. For what it is worth display gives minute accuracy and toggle gives seconds accuracy.


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernie_xg* /forum/post/20648757
> 
> 
> Has there been any definitive testing that the replay will actually try to go out and get EPG information after 7/31? Or is there the possibility that the Replay will no longer even try to do that...



I have tested my 3000 by setting the date ahead using a private NTP server. I could continue to poll but guide data download *WAS NOT* attempted.


I was able to use WiRNS shellcmds to set my auth registry section back to normal and now my Replay works just like it did before this whole mess.


So 2k/3k can be made to work and 3k/4k are simply waiting for a release of a signing version of WiRNS.


The bottom line is registry changes *will* be required for functioning past 7/31.


Robert


----------



## Art Doyle




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeeSpotRun* /forum/post/20584489
> 
> 
> That is quite a "grow up and take it like a man" speech.
> 
> 
> I am a lawyer and here is my take on this. Note: While I am a lawyer, I'm not your lawyer so this is merely my opinion and not legal advice.
> 
> 
> The defendant here would be DNNA. In looking at their agreement, any lawsuit would need to be filed in Santa Clara County, California. Ideally, it would be a class action suit filed in Federal District Court at San Jose, which is part of the Northern District of California. Several representative plaintiffs would be needed from any state other than California to create Diversity Jurisdiction.
> 
> 
> The real problem is money (damages). How could you put a number on your damages? The most damages could possibly be would be $300 per working unit, though I would expect it to be prorated such that the amount would be a lot less. (Think tradein credit when your 5 year old battery with a 6 year warranty.) So if you do the math, how much money could we possibly be talking about? To be in Federal Court, either a single plaintiff would need to have $75,000 in damages or all plaintiffs need a total of $5 million in damages. That would mean you would need a single person with 250 replays or people owning a total of 16,667 replays (did they even sell that many?). So it sounds like Federal Court is out and we would be stuck in State Court. I'm not a California lawyer so I can't say how the class action rules are in California but I can say that in Federal Court, if the plaintiff group gets class certification under Federal Rule of Procedure 23, that the Court must approve the settlement, the lawyers get rich, and the defendant is out a lot of money.
> 
> 
> Anyway, this is a simple case of breach of contract. As shown on their web site "The current monthly subscription fee is $12.95 and the one-time service activation option for the lifetime of your ReplayTV unit is $299." So, lifetime is not my lifetime, it is the lifetime of my unit.
> 
> 
> In their defense, they are going to say that since your unit is now permanently "activated", that you got your lifetime service while I'd have to argue that the unit is only useful for its intended purpose when supplied with the guide data.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, a group lawsuit is unlikely unless there happens to be a Santa Clara lawyer who is upset enough about this to spearhead a lawsuit as there isn't likely to be any money for a long time. On the other hand, a number of small claims cases might get their attention. At least here, corporations need to be represented by attorneys so any suit filed against a corporation here costs them at least $1000 to get an attorney to review the legal papers and show up in court.
> 
> 
> If DNNA was smart, they would just release the keys and enough code so someone else can either make a free guide data program or start their own service providing guide data.
> 
> 
> SeeSpotRun



Given you're not my lawyer, and are not giving out legal advice











How would *you* inflict the maximum amount of damage to DNNA through small claims court? Any chance you could format this to be usable by those who never had previous exposure to the court system?



Personal


----------



## mspaced




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20587149
> 
> 
> FYI.. I've set up a Wiki to post the current status of things. It will help newcomers by not having to read through all the forums (which tend to be a work in progress).
> 
> http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/ReplayTV
> 
> 
> Robert



Thank you!!!!


----------



## terabid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mspaced* /forum/post/20652523
> 
> 
> Thank you!!!!



After Reading your web site I have the following to offer. I have a Showstopper.

1) I believe the RECORD button no longer will work after Jul 31 as it needs to know when to stop and there is no current Guide for it to tell.

2) I believe that both Manual Time Recording and RF Blasters will work after Jul 31 as long as you don't clear anything manual with channel 243.

3) If you lose power (and then lose time) It will reset to Nov 12, 1999 at midnight when power comes back. It is probably pretty simple to do a manual power reset at midnight yourself and that will cause the time to be pretty accurate. The date, of course will not, but that probably is not a big issue as you can easily do a little arithmetic and get over that. I would think that process is simpler than tearing your machine apart and updating the software.

4) I have no idea what happens if you change TV providers and want to change your channel assignments or RF blaster configuration.


----------



## terabid

I just had a thought. I know what happens if you have a time which is less than the Guide. (thats what happens when you lose power until the next update). When that happens the Guide is useless but other features such as time recording (with a little special arithmetic) and RF Blaster work fine. Also you can see what you have recorded.


Magically the guide seems to lose old info because you never can go back more than a day. I don't know if that is a result of the current time set or whether it is done on the nightly update. If it is done by the current time set than 1 week after Jul 31 the Guide will be totally gone and then I am not sure how things might work. I do know that if I manually clear the guide then literally nothing works.

If that scenario is the case you must do a power shut down so at least the time will always be less than what is currently in the Guide. I shall do a test tonight to try to learn a little more.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reden* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Reden
> 
> FYI.. I've set up a Wiki to post the current status of things. It will help newcomers by not having to read through all the forums (which tend to be a work in progress).
> 
> http://wiki.xmltv.org/index.php/ReplayTV
> 
> 
> Robert



I'm a bit lost: visited the Wiki and didn't see something I vaguely remember about connecting a modified serial cable to the RTV and using ptvio (?) to reset the clock. This was done w/o surgery, using some IT software. Perhaps posted by t.d. ? Can't seem to find it anymore, and would love to see it added to the Wiki. Thanks.


----------



## TheRealAnubis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20579061
> 
> 
> I actually went all the way through with trying to activate one of my "closet" units, especially since it was only going to charge me ~ $3.50 (which I figured would be a bargain). But, it failed to go through and I was going to attempt to call RTV support today, but from the posts I guess I won't bother...
> 
> 
> Henry



Henry,


Thanks for getting back to me so fast. It took me a bit to get the files together, but I have a couple of questions.


1. What version did freesco stop using the 'r' option for Remote access server? The 0.4.2 didn't have it, so I grabbed the 0.3.2 version.


2. Is this program looking for an ISA modem? I have a PCI modem that is detected and working in Windows, but neither of the versions of freesco can find it. I don't think my Motherboard even has an ISA slot.


I may be out of luck unless I can grab an old box out of the garage and see if it is still working...


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheRealAnubis* /forum/post/20660869
> 
> 
> 1. What version did freesco stop using the 'r' option for Remote access server? The 0.4.2 didn't have it, so I grabbed the 0.3.2 version.



I don't really know the answer to that question, I guess you might look through the release notes for the different versions...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheRealAnubis* /forum/post/20660869
> 
> 
> 2. Is this program looking for an ISA modem? I have a PCI modem that is detected and working in Windows, but neither of the versions of freesco can find it. I don't think my Motherboard even has an ISA slot.



It is looking for a serial port, so it would depend on if your PCI modem configures itself as a serial port or not (which seems like it might be unlikely). It isn't a matter of being ISA, it's a matter of showing up at one of the serial port addresses...


Henry


----------



## amblinn

FWIW, I've installed the VMWare / FreeSCO setup from here -> http://xmltv.org/alpha/FreeSCO_vmware.zip and set the VM Player to point to COM3 (where my internal PCI - Lucent Win Modem lives, when I look at modem settings through the Windows control panel). Although I can get the ShowStopper to sync with this modem looking through HyperTerm, FreeSCO doesn't seem to recognize it. Not sure whether it's a limitation of VMPlayer or whether it's a FreeSCO thing.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amblinn* /forum/post/20661436
> 
> 
> FWIW, I've installed the VMWare / FreeSCO setup from here -> http://xmltv.org/alpha/FreeSCO_vmware.zip and set the VM Player to point to COM3 (where my internal PCI - Lucent Win Modem lives, when I look at modem settings through the Windows control panel). Although I can get the ShowStopper to sync with this modem looking through HyperTerm, FreeSCO doesn't seem to recognize it. Not sure whether it's a limitation of VMPlayer or whether it's a FreeSCO thing.



Can FreeSCO, which is a linux distro, eliminate the possibility of using a Win Modem, because Win Modems need Windows?


Or am I simply missing something completely...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## jonwz

The good thing about running FreeSCO in a windows VM (virtual machine) is that the winmodem code should all be handled, making that winmodem just look like a com port for use by freesco. I have a winmodem and the freesco/vmware/winmodem config works.


The bad thing is that "a whole lotta things" are happening at the same time to get the data from freesco, through the vmware VM, through the winmodem code, through the modem. I'm not saying you need a water-cooled mainframe, but if you've been watching the forum, you'll see that many of us have moved from softmodems to real external modems as we try to make the dial stuff work.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20661626
> 
> 
> Can FreeSCO, which is a linux distro, eliminate the possibility of using a Win Modem, because Win Modems need Windows?
> 
> 
> Or am I simply missing something completely...
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonwz* /forum/post/20661763
> 
> 
> The bad thing is that "a whole lotta things" are happening at the same time to get the data from freesco, through the vmware VM, through the winmodem code, through the modem. I'm not saying you need a water-cooled mainframe, but if you've been watching the forum, you'll see that many of us have moved from softmodems to real external modems as we try to make the dial stuff work.



Not trying to do this, but every time I've used a PCI WinModem in the past, performance has been fair at best.


When the office gets rids of computer equipment, I make sure to look for good old external modems.... They just work better...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## dryduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernie_xg* /forum/post/20648757
> 
> 
> Has there been any definitive testing that the replay will actually try to go out and get EPG information after 7/31? Or is there the possibility that the Replay will no longer even try to do that...



This is a good question, and one reason I haven't bought an SD subscription yet (now that those keys have been released, I have confidence that the wirns folks can get everything necessary working without needing the rtv servers).


On the one hand, you are right that it would be preferable to not have all these units trying to connect once there's no more service. But, realistically, everyone has been given warning and who's going to keep theirs connected and trying to dial up once it stops working? Replaytv stops paying their dialup providers and the dialup providers terminate whatever access the replaytv units had. Networked units of course are no big deal since even if they repeatedly try we're talking about negligible resource usage.


We know RTV still has the capability to push us messages like the one we have gotten. Beyond that, did they build a time-bomb into the software that they could activate? Are they going to push out a software update on (and after) 7/31? Were they forward-thinking enough to imagine how they were going to end service? My gut feeling is that they were not. And even if they were, once we are divorced from the mothership, I'm sure we can bypass all of that (unless 10 years ago they hardcoded 7/31/2011 in the software... and even then, someone will probably find a way around it).


I don't think they have the development environment to actually build new software to push out. Did they build an "end-times" build with their regular builds that they have stashed away somewhere? Maybe but I'd guess not. Their servers probably had the messaging system built-in so they could create the alert without much trouble. It makes most sense to me that they will take the path of least resistance and basically turn off the servers on 7/31, stop paying their dialup network providers, and that'll be that. There really is no point in them spending more effort than that to turn us off.


There also is the evidence of the key release. It's possible the people who gave out the key are not involved enough to know if it will be helpful past 7/31, but I doubt it. I think the fact that they gave it out and didn't say "here you go but it won't help you past 7/31" is a good sign.


----------



## rmwinslow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dryduck* /forum/post/20663657
> 
> 
> This is a good question, and one reason I haven't bought an SD subscription yet (now that those keys have been released, I have confidence that the wirns folks can get everything necessary working without needing the rtv servers).
> 
> 
> On the one hand, you are right that it would be preferable to not have all these units trying to connect once there's no more service. But, realistically, everyone has been given warning and who's going to keep theirs connected and trying to dial up once it stops working? Replaytv stops paying their dialup providers and the dialup providers terminate whatever access the replaytv units had. Networked units of course are no big deal since even if they repeatedly try we're talking about negligible resource usage.
> 
> 
> We know RTV still has the capability to push us messages like the one we have gotten. Beyond that, did they build a time-bomb into the software that they could activate? Are they going to push out a software update on (and after) 7/31? Were they forward-thinking enough to imagine how they were going to end service? My gut feeling is that they were not. And even if they were, once we are divorced from the mothership, I'm sure we can bypass all of that (unless 10 years ago they hardcoded 7/31/2011 in the software... and even then, someone will probably find a way around it).
> 
> 
> I don't think they have the development environment to actually build new software to push out. Did they build an "end-times" build with their regular builds that they have stashed away somewhere? Maybe but I'd guess not. Their servers probably had the messaging system built-in so they could create the alert without much trouble. It makes most sense to me that they will take the path of least resistance and basically turn off the servers on 7/31, stop paying their dialup network providers, and that'll be that. There really is no point in them spending more effort than that to turn us off.
> 
> 
> There also is the evidence of the key release. It's possible the people who gave out the key are not involved enough to know if it will be helpful past 7/31, but I doubt it. I think the fact that they gave it out and didn't say "here you go but it won't help you past 7/31" is a good sign.



Oops, I missed something. What key release?


Thanks,

Ray


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bernie_xg* /forum/post/20648757
> 
> 
> Has there been any definitive testing that the replay will actually try to go out and get EPG information after 7/31? Or is there the possibility that the Replay will no longer even try to do that...



Yes there has been. I configured a local NTP server and WiRNS to a 8/3 date. On manual polls (I don't know if automatic polls would have happened), guide data was *NOT* requested. In addition, pulling up the guide gave a weird 00/00 date (and no data)


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20664061
> 
> 
> Yes there has been. I configured a local NTP server and WiRNS to a 8/3 date. On manual polls (I don't know if automatic polls would have happened), guide data was *NOT* requested. In addition, pulling up the guide gave a weird 00/00 date (and no data)



Which means having in place a solution before 7/31 to avoid missing recordings on 8/1 (even though there should be like 2 weeks of guide data still present)


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20664061
> 
> 
> Yes there has been. I configured a local NTP server and WiRNS to a 8/3 date. On manual polls (I don't know if automatic polls would have happened), guide data was *NOT* requested. In addition, pulling up the guide gave a weird 00/00 date (and no data)



So what you are saying is that, on a desert island LAN that has a NTP server on it, a WiRNS server running on it (with guide data ready to serve out to RTVs on the LAN) that thinks its already August 2011, that the RTVs do not request guide data? have these RTV's been told to stop asking for it after 7/31?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## fratrow

Is there any chance that there will be a solution for the "light" users??? The people of my parent's generation who don't have the knowledge to make the connections or set up the stand-alone box...???


Maybe a dial-in site (for a small fee???)...


Just wondering what the thoughts are...


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fratrow* /forum/post/20665967
> 
> 
> Is there any chance that there will be a solution for the "light" users??? The people of my parent's generation who don't have the knowledge to make the connections or set up the stand-alone box...???
> 
> 
> Maybe a dial-in site (for a small fee???)...
> 
> 
> Just wondering what the thoughts are...



Check out this survey and convey YOUR thoughts!










Henry


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20664187
> 
> 
> So what you are saying is that, on a desert island LAN that has a NTP server on it, a WiRNS server running on it (with guide data ready to serve out to RTVs on the LAN) that thinks its already August 2011, that the RTVs do not request guide data? have these RTV's been told to stop asking for it after 7/31?



With the current registry settings,


Yes, it never requested guide data.


I don't know if it will still try and automatically connect for non-guide data settings. (manual poll did most things except request the guide)


----------



## Ocahui




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20664061
> 
> 
> Yes there has been. I configured a local NTP server and WiRNS to a 8/3 date. On manual polls (I don't know if automatic polls would have happened), guide data was *NOT* requested. In addition, pulling up the guide gave a weird 00/00 date (and no data)



I am having trouble understanding exactly how your experiment is set up.


I presume by "manual polls" you mean that you manually requested guide data. The exact transaction that takes place after that gets murky. I don't which servers do what.


You do not say exactly how the time signing and authentication protocols were handled. If the DNNA servers were involved in parts of the transaction, and they were given an August date to sign, I do not believe the experiment says anything useful with respect to how a replay will behave in August with a replacement guide source and signing/auth mechanism having no DNNA involvement.


The strange behavior you saw could simply mean that the DNNA servers will not do anything useful if they are told the date is later than July 31. But, we already knew that.


Or, it could simply mean that no guide data exists for any date later than 13 days after the date of your experiment.


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20666169
> 
> 
> ...I don't know if it will still try and automatically connect for non-guide data settings. (manual poll did most things except request the guide)





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmeden* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I also set the date up to August and everything also kept working, but I was unable to see data in the guide. I suspect that's a problem with the XMLTV hack I used for guide data, nothing more.
> 
> 
> Robert



I thought you said at the time it was the XMLTV hack "nothing more"










Not that I wouldn't expect some timebomb if they even can, but those registry settings will be easy enough to correct. And for many/most without needing a pay service.


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenL* /forum/post/20666612
> 
> 
> I thought you said at the time it was the XMLTV hack "nothing more"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not that I wouldn't expect some timebomb if they even can, but those registry settings will be easy enough to correct. And for many/most without needing a pay service.



Here's my test setup:

ReplayTV 3000 (standard Replay registry)

FreeSCO Virt

WiRNS w/ SD data

Centos Virt with a NTP server


For my test I configured WiRNS to use Centos NTP server, and set the time on the NTP server ahead a month (this was on 7/3, so it became 8/3).


I used XMLTV to download 7 days of SD data. I edited the XMLTV file changing 201107 to 201108.


I configured WiRNS to use XMLTV data and reloaded the guide.


I then did a manual poll on the Replay (243-Zones).


The time changed and the Replay requested gudie datafor 8/3+. (and WiRNS sent it) After the poll the data did *NOT* show up in the guide. I'm not sure why, I think I had a lineup misconfiguration.


I ten did a power cycle of the Replay to try and fix the guide (it didn't help)


Subsequent manual polls did *NOT* attempt to get guide data! (normally it would request today, tomorrow and +7 days)


I then started messing with Auth registry settings and really screwed up the box.







(Neither Channel Guide nor Replay Guide buttons would do anything). Eventually I came up with registry settings that were ok, but I still couldn't get 8/3 guide data to display. (again, I think lineup problems)


So in summary, I beleive with the stock registry settings no guide downloads will happen after 7/31.


Of course, now registery settings can be changed.










(I have a 3k, so no key issues)


I don't plan on doing the test again, I have other things on my plate.










Robert


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20667750
> 
> 
> ...So in summary, I beleive with the stock registry settings no guide downloads will happen after 7/31.



Except that on 8/3 it requested data for 8/3+ and WiRNS sent it? So could be bad data -- lineup config problem, even WiRNS prob. And once you started messing all bets were off.


However since we can fix the registry it doesn't matter much.


But looks like it started out normal on 8/3... should have had you check nag frequency while you where there before you changed the registry.


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20649227
> 
> 
> I have tested my 3000 by setting the date ahead using a private NTP server. I could continue to poll but guide data download *WAS NOT* attempted.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20666169
> 
> 
> I don't know if it will still try and automatically connect for non-guide data settings. (manual poll did most things except request the guide)



But what reason would there be for developing/deploying this software change if the boxes weren’t going to do exactly that?


The very fact that they’ve installed a date check to bypass the guide download seems to imply that everything else will continue, at least for a while. I mean, if they were really going to turn off all the servers completely, as some in this thread have suggested, then a guide bypass would be an absolutely irrational waste of time, effort, and money. You might want to disable the nightly connections and nag screens as a courtesy, but modifying the connection procedure itself would be utterly pointless.


Or am I missing something?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20668299
> 
> 
> But what reason would there be for developing/deploying this software change if the boxes weren't going to do exactly that?
> 
> 
> The very fact that they've installed a date check to bypass the guide download seems to imply that everything else will continue, at least for a while. I mean, if they were really going to turn off all the servers completely, as some in this thread have suggested, then a guide bypass would be an absolutely irrational waste of time, effort, and money. You might want to disable the nightly connections and nag screens as a courtesy, but modifying the connection procedure itself would be utterly pointless.
> 
> 
> Or am I missing something?



Check out this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20666769 


Issue I see is that the ability to connect to RTV Server gets turned off 8/1.


That is an issue in my book.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## replayrob

.... the other shoe just dropped









Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.

Not good....


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .... the other shoe just dropped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.
> 
> Not good....



So if DNNA had the word that there'd be a wave of cableco's dropping analog, it would make sense to terminate service beforehand to avoid many complaints for service paid for but not available, no?


----------



## sbwinter2

Quote:

Originally Posted by *replayrob* 
.... the other shoe just dropped









Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.

Not good....










I went through that a year ago. I have two locations where I have one to feed the RTV units (which black tape covering the IR) and one for regular viewing and On Demand (so I can watch while recording). The setup works better than I thought although once in a while, I have had to exchange a box as it hasn't been responsive to the blaster any more.


----------



## elorimer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *replayrob* 
.... the other shoe just dropped









Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.

Not good....








Yes not good. In our case Cablevision went two steps beyond. First they went all-encrypted so even a QAM tuner is not a possibility. And then, they auto-upshift all SD channels, like 4, to HD channels like 704, so everything fed to the Replay records double-letterboxed.


It helps to have a TV that senses those double letterboxes and autozooms them away.


The irony is that those weasels sold the plan to the FCC as an 'energy saver' in the NY area, not mentioning the million extra cable boxes running 24/7.


----------



## replayrob

Quote:

Originally Posted by *elorimer* 
Yes not good. In our case Cablevision went two steps beyond. First they went all-encrypted so even a QAM tuner is not a possibility.
Cablevision obtained special permission from the FCC to go full digital with full encryption on EVERY CHANNEL in Manhattan and it's surrounds due to supposed "widespread theft of service". That's probably unique in the whole US of A. Out on the island, we're going full digital in most areas, but OTA equivalent channels will remain as unencrypted QAM. At this point, there's just no way I'm going to get one of their cable boxes to feed my Replay. Too much energy consumption at almost $0.25/KWH to run two boxes just to record in SD resolution... I'll just get another TiVoHD with a cable card and be done with it.


----------



## jpinwv304

Quote:

Originally Posted by *replayrob* 
.... the other shoe just dropped









Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.

Not good....








I had the same problem in November. Cable switched to digital. They gave me a cable box, but no way to hook up the Showstopper 2000.


I then got from the cable company a CISCO Explorer 1642HDC, which costs $5/month, but will last forever.....


To hook up I split the cable with one going directly to the cable box then to the Video 1 input on TV.


To hook up the showstopper I took the other cable and attached to the CISCO, then ran colored cables to the Showstopper, then ran colored cables to the Video 2 input on TV.


I then installed the showstopper IR Blaster to the remote eye of the CISCO, used the CISCO code to find the IR Blaster, then powered up and it works.


Thus can use the Showstopper as before.


----------



## joblo

Quote:

Originally Posted by *dstoffa* 
Check out this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20666769 


Issue I see is that the ability to connect to RTV Server gets turned off 8/1.
This doesn't answer the question to which you responded, that is:


If they are going to turn off the servers, why modify the connection procedure?


----------



## MrFussy

I've been worried about his too. I did find out that FIOS has some kind of small box, that will provide signal to the basic channels 2-99. I'm not sure exactly what functions it provides or how (does it control channels or pass thru everything), but they said it was about 1/2 the price of a regular STB. I've got 2 RTVs with full STBs right now, and two without. So If I setup my own WIRNS server those savings would cover the extra cost of the STBs or small boxes, and the RTV will hopefully keep on tickin'.


----------



## elorimer

Quote:

Originally Posted by *replayrob* 
Cablevision obtained special permission from the FCC to go full digital with full encryption on EVERY CHANNEL in Manhattan and it's surrounds due to supposed "widespread theft of service".
Yes, so the argument was if they had full cable box control they wouldn't have trucks driving around installing filters etc to prevent theft, and that would save energy. So they gave up to 4 free cable boxes for a year to make up for it










I will say that on my Philips LCD a high quality double letterboxed Replay recording auto-upzooms extremely satisfactorily. But I would still prefer not to have the cable box.


----------



## terabid

I am currently testing my Showstopper 2000. The Guide is purged by the current time on the system. (If you have a power loss then the Guide will no longer be purged until the time is restored) I already know that clearing the guide with 243 makes my RF Blaster fail. (losing power does not make it fail). I also know that when I do a manual record it puts the channel name out when I give it a channel number. If I give it a channel number which is not in the guide but legal for the Cable Company it won't do it.

Ergo it may use the Guide for more than just a Guide. (Interestingly the RF Blaster will go to channels that are legal for the Cable Company but not in the Guide)

Therefore I have removed my telephone connection and I am curious what will happen when all of the Guide is gone but the time is still good. That requires about 9 straight days of no power loss. If the test finishes and shows that the Guide is necessary for manual recording and RF Blaster to work, then I will simply drop power after Aug 1 and start the system back up exactly at midnight. That way I will have good time and the date will prevent the system from killing any of the Guide. Good for at least 12 years.

Just on another note. The telephone numbers for the Showstopper are hardcoded to Earthlink so anybody who wants to simulate what is being done today has to go through Earthlink. There is no way to put any other phone number in without a can opener on the firmware. Also I have no idea how to stop the daily alarm when it can't dial in.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terabid* /forum/post/20670539
> 
> 
> The telephone numbers for the Showstopper are hardcoded to Earthlink so anybody who wants to simulate what is being done today has to go through Earthlink. There is no way to put any other phone number in without a can opener on the firmware. Also I have no idea how to stop the daily alarm when it can't dial in.



I don't think they are hard coded. I've seen even the main 800 numbers in a plain text file on the 5xxx image (I doubt the 3xxx image is much different) that I am sure can be updated remotely from the server. The other phone numbers used to be updated all the time, so I am sure someone has captured that activity and it can be reproduced on replacement servers/WiRNS.


Now maybe what you meant is that for the INITIAL connection to the replacement servers, you will need to use a different phone number, and there is no easy way to put that new phone number on the Replay. This I agree with, but perhaps there is a way where you can first call the new phone number on an extension, and then trigger the net-connect on the Replay while still on the line (you would have to disable the "wait for dialtone" by pressing "Zones" while on the dial prefix menu). This way, the Replay will dial the old phone number, but you will already be connected to the new number, so the Replay will just continue with the connection on the new number. Of course the new dial-up provider login and password will have to match the login/password from the old provider, at least for the initial connection.


Once it makes this initial connection, the new server can change all the phone numbers it needs to on the Replay so that subsequent calls will use the new numbers.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elorimer* /forum/post/20670126
> 
> 
> Yes not good. In our case Cablevision went two steps beyond. First they went all-encrypted so even a QAM tuner is not a possibility. And then, they auto-upshift all SD channels, like 4, to HD channels like 704, so everything fed to the Replay records double-letterboxed.
> 
> 
> It helps to have a TV that senses those double letterboxes and autozooms them away.



Does that mean that regular old CRT TVs wouldn't work with the shifted SD channels? That would be stupid to not provide service that can work on any TV since many people still use CRT TVs if not their main one, as a secondary one.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20670977
> 
> 
> Does that mean that regular old CRT TVs wouldn't work with the shifted SD channels? That would be stupid to not provide service that can work on any TV since many people still use CRT TVs if not their main one, as a secondary one.



No.


The poster is saying that HD boxes from cablevision are configured to automatically display the HD version of a channel regardless of whether or not you select the SD version or the HD version.


In New York, on Cablevision, WCBS-TV is on Channel 2. CV offers a high def version on 702.


With a HD box, if you select Ch 2, it will give you 702, because you have a high def box, and therefore must have a HDTV. It thinks for you.


The Replay cannot record HD signals, but the HD box will provide a letterboxed version on S-Video (or Composite). The postage stamp problem occurs when a 4x3 source is shown on the 16x9 HD feed (older show, commercial, etc.). If you had a HDTV, you'd see black pillars on each side of the screen. On the SD S-Video feed, you'll now have a letterboxed version of this. The result is black bars on all four sides - aka Postage Stamp.


A CRT set is useless w/o some type of converter box on cable systems that have gone all digital.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20671014
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> The poster is saying that HD boxes from cablevision are configured to automatically display the HD version of a channel regardless of whether or not you select the SD version or the HD version.
> 
> 
> In New York, on Cablevision, WCBS-TV is on Channel 2. CV offers a high def version on 702.
> 
> 
> With a HD box, if you select Ch 2, it will give you 702, because you have a high def box, and therefore must have a HDTV. It thinks for you.
> 
> 
> The Replay cannot record HD signals, but the HD box will provide a letterboxed version on S-Video (or Composite). The postage stamp problem occurs when a 4x3 source is shown on the 16x9 HD feed (older show, commercial, etc.). If you had a HDTV, you'd see black pillars on each side of the screen. On the SD S-Video feed, you'll now have a letterboxed version of this. The result is black bars on all four sides - aka Postage Stamp.
> 
> 
> A CRT set is useless w/o some type of converter box on cable systems that have gone all digital.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



That is truly stupid - to require people to have an HD TV.


Comcast here is all digital, but not all HD (as you know, HD is different than digital). My CRT TVs aren't useless at all since they have SD and HD boxes, and even convert the mandated channels to analog for those who do not want a box at all (the local channels plus a few more). You can also get a DTA to get all channels under 100 (without the guide). Anything that can convert for a CRT should be able to convert for RTV (minus the limitations of IR codes) in terms of a correct picture.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20671299
> 
> 
> That is truly stupid - to require people to have an HD TV.
> 
> 
> Comcast here is all digital, but not all HD (as you know, HD is different than digital). My CRT TVs aren't useless at all since they have SD and HD boxes, and even convert the mandated channels to analog for those who do not want a box at all (the local channels plus a few more). You can also get a DTA to get all channels under 100 (without the guide). Anything that can convert for a CRT should be able to convert for RTV (minus the limitations of IR codes) in terms of a correct picture.



Well, if you get a SD box, you don't have this problem, as the SD box will display most channels full frame 4x3 (from a zoomed 16x9 source). If the RTV was connected to a SD box, this poster wouldn't be experiencing this problem, as the SD box WILL display a SD friendly (and therefore RTV friendly) feed. My SD box is connected to my RTV and old CRT. My HD box connected to my HDTV.


The poster with this issue COULD try to select a different zoom-factor on the HD box (1080i ZOOM) which may eliminate the letter-boxing / postage stamping....


Cablevision doesn't offer DTA's (unfortunately). As a CV subscriber, I have three choices:


1. HD Box

2. SD Box

3. Cable Card -- not an option with RTV or CRT TV (unless I buy a Tivo).


3.1. Broadcast Basic (in Nassau Country anyway - NOT in the 5 boros) on a TV with a Clear QAM tuner. -- Not an option with ReplayTV or CRT set.


1 and 2 cost $8 / month, I believe, no matter which you choose.

The cable card is probably $3 / mo.


Actually, I've read that unsubscribed Tivos can function as cable boxes. They won't have guide data, nor will they record anything, but they can accept a cable card, and can be used as a STB....



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20668874
> 
> 
> .... the other shoe just dropped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday we got a letter from our cable provider that they will be going all-digital by September, say goodby to analog. Will need a cable box (DTA's not used by our cable co) for each TV or TV with QAM tuner for basic unencrypted digital ch2-21 only.
> 
> Not good....



Been there, done that. At least you got some notice; I got six weeks notice back in February, and that was completely by accident.


Anyway, see my posts on Windows Media Center elsewhere in this thread and a couple others here in the Replay area.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20671347
> 
> 
> Well, if you get a SD box, you don't have this problem, as the SD box will display most channels full frame 4x3 (from a zoomed 16x9 source). If the RTV was connected to a SD box, this poster wouldn't be experiencing this problem, as the SD box WILL display a SD friendly (and therefore RTV friendly) feed. My SD box is connected to my RTV and old CRT. My HD box connected to my HDTV.
> 
> 
> The poster with this issue COULD try to select a different zoom-factor on the HD box (1080i ZOOM) which may eliminate the letter-boxing / postage stamping....
> 
> 
> Cablevision doesn't offer DTA's (unfortunately). As a CV subscriber, I have three choices:
> 
> 
> 1. HD Box
> 
> 2. SD Box
> 
> 3. Cable Card -- not an option with RTV or CRT TV (unless I buy a Tivo).
> 
> 
> 3.1. Broadcast Basic (in Nassau Country anyway - NOT in the 5 boros) on a TV with a Clear QAM tuner. -- Not an option with ReplayTV or CRT set.
> 
> 
> 1 and 2 cost $8 / month, I believe, no matter which you choose.
> 
> The cable card is probably $3 / mo.
> 
> 
> Actually, I've read that unsubscribed Tivos can function as cable boxes. They won't have guide data, nor will they record anything, but they can accept a cable card, and can be used as a STB....
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Just want to make sure that I wasn't implying the poster was stupid. I think the cable company is foolish for not offering SD boxes.


And I actually prefer watching letterbox over 4:3. One reason is that subtitles do not cover the picture as often.


I also like my CRT TVs because you cannot get a widescreen flat TV with true single-tuner PIP (meaning can view any two line-in feeds and not just one analog and one HD or one TV and one PC) - unless someone knows of a new version.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/20671510
> 
> 
> Just want to make sure that I wasn't implying the poster was stupid. I think the cable company is foolish for not offering SD boxes.
> 
> 
> And I actually prefer watching letterbox over 4:3. One reason is that subtitles do not cover the picture as often.
> 
> 
> I also like my CRT TVs because you cannot get a widescreen flat TV with true single-tuner PIP (meaning can view any two line-in feeds and not just one analog and one HD or one TV and one PC) - unless someone knows of a new version.



You are mistaken in your assumption about Cablevision, they do offer SD boxes as was clarified by dstoffa's last post. The issue of remapping channels only occurs on their HD boxes.


----------



## gring40

Looked at the posted hack for early RTV's, and saw that the instructions call for booting in Windows 2000 before proceeding with the simple-settime.panel over-writes; is that necessary, or would another Windows OS work, as long as one had a DOS window?


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20672211
> 
> 
> Looked at the posted hack for early RTV's, and saw that the instructions call for booting in Windows 2000 before proceeding with the simple-settime.panel over-writes; is that necessary, or would another Windows OS work, as long as one had a DOS window?



If you're talking about using extract_rtv, as long as you use the newer extract_rtv5 instead and ran the command prompt with admin privileges, then it should work in any version of Windows...


Henry


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If you're talking about using extract_rtv, as long as you use the newer extract_rtv5 instead and ran the command prompt with admin privileges, then it should work in any version of Windows...
> 
> 
> Henry



That's right, but the warning not to use the extract_rtv over-write command (w) unless you are really sure what you are doing gives me pause. Are there any detailed instructions for the procedure to install the clock-set panel?


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *gring40* 
That's right, but the warning not to use the extract_rtv over-write command (w) unless you are really sure what you are doing gives me pause. Are there any detailed instructions for the procedure to install the clock-set panel?
Yes, in the instructions for the clock-set panel...


Henry


----------



## gring40

Quote:

Originally Posted by *hdonzis*
Yes, in the instructions for the clock-set panel...


Henry
I see that; thanks for your patience.

So I need to:

- download & unzip extract_rtv5

- download and unzip simple-settime.panel to the same directory

- follow the posted instructions exactly

- do this before or after the 31st, or doesn't it matter?

- use my ME or Vista PC or either?


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *gring40* 
I see that; thanks for your patience.

So I need to:

- download & unzip extract_rtv5

- download and unzip simple-settime.panel to the same directory

- follow the posted instructions exactly

- do this before or after the 31st, or doesn't it matter?

- use my ME or Vista PC or either?
I've never done it and am not an expert. However, since I took over the extract_rtv5 project, I know a bit about that in particular. I've looked at the instructions previously, and they are straight forward as far as that type thing goes. Lots of people have followed them...


Lots of people have successfully run extract_rtv5 on a variety of versions of Windows, including Windows 7. Most of the newer Windows require you to open the command prompt with admin privileges in order for extract_rtv5 to "see" the hard drive...


The control panel simply replaces some easter egg on the RTV, so it doesn't matter when you do it. It's not going to change anything about what's going to happen after 7/31, it just gives you the ability to manually set the clock if it gets off, which you won't be able to do after 7/31 unless you either use something like FreeSCO and WiRNS or subscribe to the new dial up service that's in the survey...


Henry


----------



## Arvy

Permit me a couple WiRNS newbie questions...


1. Will WiRNS, when installed before the 31st, be working correctly when the guide updates daily (as checked in System Information on the RTV)?


2. Beside the following after the 31st, are there any other changes to WiRNS needed?

a. An SD account entered into WiRNS

b. Change zip code to 0

c. Edit each RTV in WiRNS to use the SD guide data

d. Change the time server

e. Add static IP to each RTV

f. Change each RTV zip code in order to select WiRNS as the provider.


I thought it better to ask now than next month when the questions may flood in. Thanks.


----------



## hdonzis

WiRNS, as it exists today, still relies on the ReplayTV servers to allow your RTV to complete a net connect. WiRNS provides the guide data, but ReplayTV supplies everything else. So, without ReplayTV servers, RTVs won't be able to complete a net connect through WiRNS...


Henry


----------



## ClearToLand

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Arvy* 
*Permit me a couple WiRNS newbie questions*...
If you've never run WiRNS before, IMHO, installing WiRNS 2.x today, and then Schedules Direct - at least for the 7-day FREE TRIAL after you get WiRNS 2.x working with the ReplayTV EPG, and playing around with it for a few weeks would be a good investment of your time.


AFAICT, from the minimal reading I found on the topic, WiRNS 3.x will require a FRESH install, not an upgrade in-place of WiRNS 2.x.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *PlanetReplay-Space*
Version 3.0 has not been released yet, and no date for it's release has been announced. I am guessing (hoping?) that it will be released sometime before 8/1.

*The "Check for updates" feature of WiRNS 2.0 will only update components for WiRNS 2.0, it will not upgrade you to 3.0. You will have to wait for the official WiRNS 3.0 release, at which time I suspect you will be able to download the .msi file so that you can install it.
*

As for the error you got, I don't know. But you should try stopping WiRNS from the WiRNSmon menu, and then "Check for Updates" from that same menu to see if it works any better the second time. You can also try to update it from within WiRNS itself by using "Administration->Update WiRNS". But like I said, this will only update WiRNS 2.0, you have to wait for 3.0.
*Reference:* *PlanetReplay: WiRNS Wiki* 


So, by installing WiRNS 2.x w/SD now, you can '_iron out_' YOUR bugs and become familiar with the application.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20674475
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> AFAICT, from the minimal reading I found on the topic, WiRNS 3.x will require a FRESH install, not an upgrade in-place of WiRNS 2.x.



You can install WiRNS 3.x using the .msi over the existing WiRNS 2.x and it will retain all of the settings from WiRNS 2.x. So it does not have to be a FRESH install. You can upgrade from WiRNS 2.x to WiRNS 3.x, but only using the .msi (or perhaps also a .zip) file.

The statement I made is that you will not be able to upgrade to WiRNS 3.0 through the "Check for Updates" or "Administration->Update WiRNS" features that you would normally use to update WiRNS 2.x to the latest version.


----------



## Steevo55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20674406
> 
> 
> WiRNS, as it exists today, still relies on the ReplayTV servers to allow your RTV to complete a net connect. WiRNS provides the guide data, but ReplayTV supplies everything else. So, without ReplayTV servers, RTVs won't be able to complete a net connect through WiRNS...
> 
> 
> Henry



Henry,


I thought you were going to dispense with the connection through to production.replaytv.net and do it all in Wirns. Is that the goal, and is that turning out to be complicated for you smart guys?


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steevo55* /forum/post/20675047
> 
> 
> Henry,
> 
> 
> I thought you were going to dispense with the connection through to production.replaytv.com and do it all in Wirns. Is that the goal, and is that turning out to be complicated for you smart guys?



He said "as it exists today". WiRNS 3.0 does not exist yet







.


----------



## gring40

Can't recall if anyone has tried to let the Channel Guide expire of natural causes by stopping the nightly connect for a week, to test if the channel lineup survives once the Guide has lost all programming (7/31 simulation).


I do recall someone clearing the Guide manually and losing the lineup, but that's not necessarily the same thing.


I've tried to do a future manual record by keying in some random channel number, but the RTV just skips to the closest channel in my lineup before the next step.


I wouldn't mind so much using my SS manually, as I have lots of EPG references. But one really needs two things to do that; a clock set panel (hack on Wiki), and channel lineup in the RTV (test, anyone?), or Manual Record won't work after Aug 8.


----------



## terabid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20676296
> 
> 
> Can't recall if anyone has tried to let the Channel Guide expire of natural causes by stopping the nightly connect for a week, to test if the channel lineup survives once the Guide has lost all programming (7/31 simulation).
> 
> 
> I do recall someone clearing the Guide manually and losing the lineup, but that's not necessarily the same thing.
> 
> 
> I've tried to do a future manual record by keying in some random channel number, but the RTV just skips to the closest channel in my lineup before the next step.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind so much using my SS manually, as I have lots of EPG references. But one really needs two things to do that; a clock set panel (hack on Wiki), and channel lineup in the RTV (test, anyone?), or Manual Record won't work after Aug 8.



I am running that test right now. I should have my answer next Friday. In worst case you can simply drop power after Jul 31 and restore it exactly at midnight. That will give you a good time and a date that you can overcome with very simple arithmetic. The old Guide should cease being removed as the time is less than the oldest time in the guide. (you now have 12 good years) Therefore manual recordings and RF Blaster should work fine. The Record button will be useless as it needs a good Guide to know when to stop recording, However I have noticed that I can record with a start time less than the clock and it will start recording immediately so it is almost the same - just a few more keystrokes. You cannot record a channel manually that is not in the Guide but you can use RF Blaster to turn to any channel that your provider thinks is legal even if it isn't in the Guide.


----------



## sbwinter2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20676296
> 
> 
> Can't recall if anyone has tried to let the Channel Guide expire of natural causes by stopping the nightly connect for a week, to test if the channel lineup survives once the Guide has lost all programming (7/31 simulation).



I did it a few weeks ago. I left a 5500 unit unplugged from the ethernet for two weeks. The programs just ran out, but the channels remained and were chooseable for controlling the IR blaster. No real functionality differences other than recording from a program. No time shift in that brief time either.


I have also unplugged the unit while unplugged from the ethernet and nothing changes their either - no change in time, guide, etc.


----------



## Steevo55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20675208
> 
> 
> He said "as it exists today". WiRNS 3.0 does not exist yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Oh, I was under the impression it was in testing.


----------



## JJON2121

Manual record will work the same if you record from _line 1, line 2 or RF Direct_ input. You can specify a start and end time of the required length regardless of the clock time. I already do this when I record DVD's or something from my HD Tivo.


This works great for something you are recording right now. Timeshift manual recording would become tricky if the clock is not set correctly.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steevo55* /forum/post/20676728
> 
> 
> Oh, I was under the impression it was in testing.



Perhaps; I meant there was no officially released version that anyone outside of the developers, and perhaps some alpha/beta testers have access to.


----------



## lazarus000

The 31st is closing in fast.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sbwinter2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I did it a few weeks ago. I left a 5500 unit unplugged from the ethernet for two weeks. The programs just ran out, but the channels remained and were chooseable for controlling the IR blaster. No real functionality differences other than recording from a program. No time shift in that brief time either.
> 
> 
> I have also unplugged the unit while unplugged from the ethernet and nothing changes their either - no change in time, guide, etc.



Wow, that's really good news; thanks for making my day!


Now for the Hat Trick, if only there were a hack for renaming recordings on my old SS?


----------



## class action

Honestly,

I believe


Michael Begala, Vice President of "No" Service

along with D&M Holdings at


100 Corporate Dr.

Mahwah, NJ 07430

1-201-762-6500


should brace themselves for the class action litigation to come.


I'll be happy to be the lead plaintiff.


I am not assuaged by the concept ... we've had a good run of 3, 5 or 7 years. I think it's safe to say such musings have been posted by D&M (Begala?) themselves to lull angry consumers into complacency.

I am not placated that my machine is antique which must be pitched...

It works now, just as it did when I bought it, and serves its intended purpose. Built in obsolescence is bad, but this is forced destruction of a viable product.


A life-time promise is a promise. I gave consideration (cash) in reliance for Replay's promise. I wouldn't have bought the product and paid the premium for lifetime service if it displayed an asterisk which indicated it was only for as long as Replay (or its successor) decided they wanted to honor the promise for the money which they stole from me.


I not only am not techno proficient enough to set up alternate systems... I don't feel, for my money expended already, that I should have to spend the time or energy or additional cash required to enable me to do an "end run" around the company tactic of throwing us, like bin laden, to the bottom of the sea.


What gives with American Corporate Integrity?... or lack thereof.


If, as the postings have indicated, Replay says there are just too few users to justify continuing the service then it should, similarly, be a de minimis number of loyal consumers whom they should respectably offer a refund for failure to honor their commitment of a lifetime service.


Wonder what the Attorney General has to say about this bold face thievery?

Has anyone explored the criminal charges relevant to this situation?

Often such consumer fraud has treble damages associated with it.


These folks are sleeping comfortably tonight, with our piles of money, as their pillows and covered by their blankets of doublespeak and deception.

Let us unite in a class action against this company

... that has ... no class!


----------



## slowbiscuit

Don't be silly, this wil go nowhere.


----------



## robkwil61

Your problem with a class action law suit will be in establishing damage. And I doubt you will be able to prove damages enough to certify the suit.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robkwil61* /forum/post/20679928
> 
> 
> Your problem with a class action law suit will be in establishing damage. And I doubt you will be able to prove damages enough to certify the suit.



The fact we've been damaged is clear. The price you paid for the box and the lifetime subscription is one data point. The prices lifetime boxes have been able to resell for on ebay over the past 5 years compared to the price unsubscribed boxes is also a possible indication of what damages are. 2 months ago, what was the difference in price on ebay between unsubscribed boxes and subscribed liftetime boxes? I haven't looked, but the difference in price today on ebay is probably 0 now. What would a judge find to be damages? I don't know. I imagine 10 judges would find 10 different amounts.


The purchase of the hardware doesn't make sense if the subscription service isn't available. I'd argue the amount spent on the hardware is also part of the damages. So for me, I'd hope a judgement something between $900 and $1600 if I were to go to small claims court.


----------



## ncbill

IIRC we've already had an attorney point out that the minimum thresholds for federal class-action are pretty high and we'd be unlikely to meet them.


I'm still unsure of who one would actually pursue in small claims, as there seems to be conflicting information as to who owns the EPG service - DNNA or DirecTV?


Assuming one of them is the owner instead of a sub-division whose assets were stripped years ago...


----------



## Steevo55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *class action* /forum/post/20679548
> 
> 
> Honestly,
> 
> I believe
> 
> 
> Michael Begala, Vice President of "No" Service
> 
> along with D&M Holdings at
> 
> 
> 100 Corporate Dr.
> 
> Mahwah, NJ 07430
> 
> 1-201-762-6500
> 
> 
> should brace themselves for the class action litigation to come.
> 
> 
> I'll be happy to be the lead plaintiff.
> 
> 
> I am not assuaged by the concept ... we've had a good run of 3, 5 or 7 years. I think it's safe to say such musings have been posted by D&M (Begala?) themselves to lull angry consumers into complacency.
> 
> I am not placated that my machine is antique which must be pitched...
> 
> It works now, just as it did when I bought it, and serves its intended purpose. Built in obsolescence is bad, but this is forced destruction of a viable product.
> 
> 
> A life-time promise is a promise. I gave consideration (cash) in reliance for Replay's promise. I wouldn't have bought the product and paid the premium for lifetime service if it displayed an asterisk which indicated it was only for as long as Replay (or its successor) decided they wanted to honor the promise for the money which they stole from me.
> 
> 
> I not only am not techno proficient enough to set up alternate systems... I don't feel, for my money expended already, that I should have to spend the time or energy or additional cash required to enable me to do an "end run" around the company tactic of throwing us, like bin laden, to the bottom of the sea.
> 
> 
> What gives with American Corporate Integrity?... or lack thereof.
> 
> 
> If, as the postings have indicated, Replay says there are just too few users to justify continuing the service then it should, similarly, be a de minimis number of loyal consumers whom they should respectably offer a refund for failure to honor their commitment of a lifetime service.
> 
> 
> Wonder what the Attorney General has to say about this bold face thievery?
> 
> Has anyone explored the criminal charges relevant to this situation?
> 
> Often such consumer fraud has treble damages associated with it.
> 
> 
> These folks are sleeping comfortably tonight, with our piles of money, as their pillows and covered by their blankets of doublespeak and deception.
> 
> Let us unite in a class action against this company
> 
> ... that has ... no class!



Class actions are a waste of time. I have one right here: Farmers Insurance is paying $455 million, you know what I get should I deign to fill out a claim form? $1.99. Waste of time.


Forget that class action stuff, so we don't all have to exclude ourselves.


----------



## oualline

Does anyone have a copy of a receipt or agreement showing that they paid for a lifetime program guide. I need a copy as this is the first step in a possible class action suit. (Don't hold your breath on this one. The chances of it actually happening are very slim.)


Mail copy to ouallinewwwouallinecom


----------



## ChampaignWalt

I have one from dnna when I bought my 5k from their online store.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steevo55* /forum/post/20682368
> 
> 
> Class actions are a waste of time. I have one right here: Farmers Insurance is paying $455 million, you know what I get should I deign to fill out a claim form? $1.99. Waste of time.
> 
> 
> Forget that class action stuff, so we don't all have to exclude ourselves.



I have received thousands of dollars awarded in a class action lawsuit, so don't make that generalized statement. Of course the proceeds were just a fraction of the original money lost, but still...


Anyway, in this particular case, I agree with you, the damages will not generate much, if any, monetary awards.


----------



## sbwinter2

And if you are going to do anything, please do it after they shut it all down so that they won't do anything nasty prior to that. They were kind enough to give the keys so far, so we don't want to ruin that.


----------



## robkwil61




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20680485
> 
> 
> The fact we've been damaged is clear. The price you paid for the box and the lifetime subscription is one data point. The prices lifetime boxes have been able to resell for on ebay over the past 5 years compared to the price unsubscribed boxes is also a possible indication of what damages are. 2 months ago, what was the difference in price on ebay between unsubscribed boxes and subscribed liftetime boxes? I haven't looked, but the difference in price today on ebay is probably 0 now. What would a judge find to be damages? I don't know. I imagine 10 judges would find 10 different amounts.
> 
> 
> The purchase of the hardware doesn't make sense if the subscription service isn't available. I'd argue the amount spent on the hardware is also part of the damages. So for me, I'd hope a judgement something between $900 and $1600 if I were to go to small claims court.



The hardware itself will depreciate in value. A 10 year old Replay has a value now of next to nothing. The subscription service is questionable and would take a lot of research to PROVE damages. And if a SD can replace it for $20 a year, then you won't get much there either. Personally, I think the sentiment here for the majority of the folks is they would not support the suit. I for one would not participate. My Replays have served me well for 10 years. If they can't opperate the same after July 31 then so be it. Time to move on to another DVR. It was a good run for my $700!


----------



## ChampaignWalt

How much could you buy a replaytv with a lifetime subscription on ebay for 2 months ago (prior to the announcement that the EPG was going away)? And how much was one without a subscription? When did DNNA stop selling lifetime subscriptions?


I'm planning on taking them to small claims court, and I believe the damages will be easy to prove since there is a clear breach of contract.


Look, if replaytv boxes are rearlly worthless, I should be able to go to ebay and pick some up for the price of shipping. (Just looked and they're still being listed for significantly more than "next to nothing".


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20684644
> 
> 
> How much could you buy a replaytv with a lifetime subscription on ebay for 2 months ago (prior to the announcement that the EPG was going away)? And how much was one without a subscription? When did DNNA stop selling lifetime subscriptions?
> 
> 
> I'm planning on taking them to small claims court, and I believe the damages will be easy to prove since there is a clear breach of contract.
> 
> 
> Look, if replaytv boxes are rearlly worthless, I should be able to go to ebay and pick some up for the price of shipping. (Just looked and they're still being listed for significantly more than "next to nothing".



The price of ReplayTVs on eBay before the announcement were based on two main things, lifetime/non-lifetime and the size of the hard drive. Even the model number did not seem to make that much of a difference.


I believe a non-lifetime 5040 (with original drive) was going for around $40-$50. A lifetime 5040 was about $100-$120. This is including the shipping charge.


Currently it looks like both lifetime and non-lifetime are going for about the same price, about $50-$60.


To give you some idea, I purchased 3 RTVs (two 5080's and 1 5040) back in March of this year on eBay. The description said that two of them came up with menus and one did not get past the "Please wait" screen. No remotes or other accessories were included. They did not know if they were lifetime units or not. The "buy it now" price was $80 + $35 shipping.


Since the serial numbers were included in the listing, I was able to look them up and determined that 2 were lifetime units. I figured that $115 for 2 lifetime Replays and one for parts was a good deal so I took the gamble that there would be no other problems with the units (they were sold as-is with no guarantee that they would even work, even had the classification of "for parts or not working!!!"







).


I think it turned out to be a good deal, since the one unit did only have a bad drive (it happened to be the non-lifetime one, a 5080) and the other two were working lifetime units. I recently replaced the drive in the non-lifetime and it is working fine (and now is also activated







).

So in the end I think I got a good deal, but that is because I knew how to determine if the units were lifetime or not (if the seller knew he had two lifetime units he could have sold them for at least $100 each with no remote), and was also willing to take the risk that none of them would actually work.


----------



## ChampaignWalt

How did you find out they had "lifetime" subscriptions?


----------



## Space

Just plug the serial number in to this URL:

http://rns.replaytv.net/cgi-bin/2.0/getca4.pl?serial=&oem=0&udate=0 


login: RNSBasic

pass: A7x*8-Qt


It is useless now, since all Replays are "Activated", but before the announcement, lifetime units would have SystemInfoStr set to "Activated (One time fee paid)".


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Was that url discovered by looking at the network packets being sent between a replaytv and the mothership?


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20685969
> 
> 
> Was that url discovered by looking at the network packets being sent between a replaytv and the mothership?



Yes, but not by me!

http://www.wirns.com/twiki/RnsProtocol 
http://www.wirns.com/twiki/RnsAuth


----------



## Yakuman

At the risk of sounding impatient, what are the odds an alternative authentication server will be up and running before the big shutdown?


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yakuman* /forum/post/20688341
> 
> 
> At the risk of sounding impatient, what are the odds an alternative authentication server will be up and running before the big shutdown?



It's really Henry's call, but I'd say better than 90%


----------



## gring40

One of the things I like best about the RTV Guide is the indication of which shows are repeats, and I don't see this on any of the other EPG's I've found. Must be somewhere; where is it?


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Reden* 
It's really Henry's call, but I'd say better than 90%
That's great! I have to admit I've been getting a little anxious about this July 31 date. If this 90% changes in the next few weeks, could we get updated here?


(Oh, and thanks a bunch guys!)


----------



## jpinwv304

At the beginning of this thread we had many responses everyday. Now we are down to a few respones a day. Does this imply that most of us have given up?


I hope not, for I like my SS2000.


On the Internet I see where TiVo is offering a package for ReplayTV. This is $100 less than their normal price.


As mentioned before we have five options:

1: Convert system to WiRNS (possible for IT pros, but not normal users)

2: Lease a TiVo system from the cable company (monthly fee)

3: Hope that our user database can adapt a system to renew ReplayTV (see other thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345900 )

4: Buy a Tivo system

5: Do nothing and read books


I would be glad to pay the monthly fee as before for the same system.


For myself, I wil be out of the country on the 31st, thus not sure what will happen nor how to add or protect my SS2000.


----------



## Space

I think it is only natural for there to be a flurry of panicked post at the beginning, but now most people know that there are options to save their beloved Replays, so it has calmed down some.


It will probably pick up again as it gets closer to R-D-Day, and probably for some time afterwards...


----------



## ChampaignWalt

Space has it right. I'm following several threads. Not writing in all of them, but reading them. I imagine new people coming in are reading and seeing their questions having already been asked and answered in these threads, so there's no need to write, but to only read.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20696891
> 
> 
> I would be glad to pay the monthly fee as before for the same system.



Then I suggest your read the thread on Survey and take the survey. It is likely that you'll be able to subscribe to a montly service that includes dial up...


And, by the way, for your SS, if you want to go with WiRNS, you also have to install a dial-up router, such as FreeSCO. You can read all about that in the threads on that subject or in the XML project page...


Henry


----------



## nutzo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20696891
> 
> 
> As mentioned before we have five options:
> 
> 1: Convert system to WiRNS (possible for IT pros, but not normal users)
> 
> 2: Lease a TiVo system from the cable company (monthly fee)
> 
> 3: Hope that our user database can adapt a system to renew ReplayTV (see other thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345900 )
> 
> 4: Buy a Tivo system
> 
> 5: Do nothing and read books



6. Build a HTPC using Windows 7 Media Center.


----------



## adam1991

and of course, one doesn't lease a Tivo system from the cable company. One rents the cableco's crappy DVR, which is WAY overpriced. They specify it to cost no more than a couple of bucks, then rent it to you for $13/month.


And that crappy DVR can record no more than two things at once, AND you're forced to watch the recorded shows FROM that box ON that particular TV.


And it has only 40 or so hours of storage.


----------



## ncbill

An increasingly attractive option, especially as the price of multi-tuner cards (4-6 tuners requiring only 1 Cablecard) are coming down.


Even more so for someone like me who is OTA-only (HDHR dual ATSC tuner $125 new, as low as $50 used)


I love my HD Tivo, but with the recent price hike they're charging $500 (!) for Lifetime service.


That same $500 gets you a good start on building a HTPC.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutzo* /forum/post/20698147
> 
> 
> 6. Build a HTPC using Windows 7 Media Center.


----------



## replayrob

HTPC WAF 
TiVo WAF > 0


----------



## adam1991




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *replayrob* /forum/post/20698452
> 
> 
> HTPC WAF
> 
> 
> Hardly. Look at the reports at the old greenbutton.com, which has now transitioned to experts.windows.com. Huge WAF.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpinwv304* /forum/post/20696891
> 
> 
> At the beginning of this thread we had many responses everyday. *Now we are down to a few respones a day. Does this imply that most of us have given up?*



Does the child in the back seat of the car constantly repeating "*Are we there yet?*" shorten the travel time?










Does Chicken Little hysterically shouting " *The sky is falling!* " serve any useful, positive purpose?










The folks / gurus that are able to '_do something about this problem_' have been on it since the get-go, some, silently in the background, probably from YEARS ago (ala *Todd Larasen* style)!







IIRC, laidback *Glenn1963* (one of the original authors of WiRNS) made the first announcement on PlanetReplay ( *End of ReplayTV Electronic Programming Guide Service* ), which *Reden* (of Schedules Direct fame) immediately copied over here on AVS.


IMO, repeatedly inquiring about the progress and/or complaining about '*What They Did to Us!*' and threatening to sue is just unnecessary '_noise_'.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChampaignWalt* /forum/post/20697235
> 
> 
> ...I'm following several threads. Not writing in all of them, but reading them. I imagine new people coming in are reading and seeing *their questions having already been asked and answered in these threads, so there's no need to write, but to only read*.











Log onto all three ReplayTV-related forums daily (or as much as possible) and READ! From my point-of-view, the gurus, like *Glenn1963*, *hdonzis*, *Reden*, etc... are doing an EXCELLENT JOB keeping the masses informed of their progress. And, '_re-activated_' oldtimers, like *Space*, *t.d.*, *gatomon*, *jlv*, *g501*, etc... are testing and/or 'translating' further for the less / non-technical crowd.









The soup will be ready when it's ready and not a moment before...


----------



## Kenlex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20698180
> 
> 
> and of course, one doesn't lease a Tivo system from the cable company. One rents the cableco's crappy DVR, which is WAY overpriced. They specify it to cost no more than a couple of bucks, then rent it to you for $13/month.
> 
> 
> And that crappy DVR can record no more than two things at once, AND you're forced to watch the recorded shows FROM that box ON that particular TV.
> 
> 
> And it has only 40 or so hours of storage.


_Au contraire, mon ami!_ If your cable company is RCN (and I admit, their footprint is pretty tiny, as cable companies go, being limited to only a few metro areas), you _can_ "lease a Tivo system from the cable company," for a mere $5/mo. _more than_ their usual "crappy DVR." So I guess it's still "WAY overpriced," but it's available.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20698678
> 
> 
> Does the child in the back seat of the car constantly repeating "*Are we there yet?*" shorten the travel time?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Chicken Little hysterically shouting " *The sky is falling!* " serve any useful, positive purpose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The folks / gurus that are able to '_do something about this problem_' have been on it since the get-go, some, silently in the background, probably from YEARS ago



Agreed. I don't need instant gratification... I probably won't even have enough free time to install the solution once it's released anyway...


It's not as if this is sweeps time, and I am missing all my shows.


Enjoy your summer, folks! and thank your friendly neighborhood programmers!



Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Cobalt_Crysalis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nutzo* /forum/post/20698147
> 
> 
> 6. Build a HTPC using Windows 7 Media Center.



Only problem with this (for those of us still using CRT TVs) is the $400-$700 for a decent HDTV (since there are no RCA outs on most W7 MC systems) on top of the $400 - $1000 for the HTPC.


When you take that into consideration, $500 for lifetime Tivo doesn't look so bad, though I'd prefer not to go to them if at all possible.


----------



## adam1991

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Cobalt_Crysalis* 
Only problem with this (for those of us still using CRT TVs) is the $400-$700 for a decent HDTV (since there are no RCA outs on most W7 MC systems) on top of the $400 - $1000 for the HTPC.


When you take that into consideration, $500 for lifetime Tivo doesn't look so bad, though I'd prefer not to go to them if at all possible.
What you're missing is the fact that no matter how much duct tape you use, the world will continue to move forward and your existing system will fall apart for you.


You can keep putting on the band-aids, but that doesn't fix things.


For better or for worse, in the end it's *cheaper* to get the new TV with HDMI inputs than to continue to duct tape things.


It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". For many, the end of Replay forced the issue.


Regardless, sticking with the tube TV will leave you with nothing, and that'll happen WAY sooner rather than later.


----------



## Lark888

Later rather than sooner - it is more a matter of conservation and treasuring the really good stuff. It will be a long time before my CRT TV dies a horrible death. The B&W set I got from my grandmother was still working strong when I stopped using it (pretty much stopped watching TV until ReplayTV came along). I suspect my HDTV will go long before the CRT sets do.


My Replays are worth the trouble, they were (and are) ahead of their time.


My main server running 24/7 is from the 1996-98 time frame with an AMD K6-3+ and Tyan motherboard. The CPU has been "overclocked" at 600Mhz the entire time. Heck, even the hard drive (80GB Maxtor) is running close to 10 years old.


Eventually the duct tape does wear out but it is usually orders of magnitude later than when many people succumb to the inevitable.


And Oh, I continue to watch the threads and appreciate the work to keep the ReplayTV running strong.


----------



## Ed Rempalski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cobalt_Crysalis* /forum/post/20699183
> 
> 
> Only problem with this (for those of us still using CRT TVs) is the $400-$700 for a decent HDTV (since there are no RCA outs on most W7 MC systems) on top of the $400 - $1000 for the HTPC.
> 
> 
> When you take that into consideration, $500 for lifetime Tivo doesn't look so bad, though I'd prefer not to go to them if at all possible.



Actually you could use a less powerful PC as the Media Center Server on your network only. Then use low cost X-Box's configured to boot straight into Media Center Extender Mode as your actual connection to TV's. The X-Box has HDMI, as well as Component, S-Video, and Composite output available via cheap cables available everywhere. A Composite/S-Vid cable is about $15 on Amazon. I found very cheap diskless X-Boxes on eBay (Model 360-S, 4GB Units).


This setup is suprisingly very nice!


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20699998
> 
> 
> What you're missing is the fact that no matter how much duct tape you use, *the world will continue to move forward and your existing system will fall apart for you*.
> 
> 
> You can keep putting on the band-aids, but that doesn't fix things.
> 
> 
> For better or for worse, *in the end it's *cheaper* to get the new TV with HDMI inputs than to continue to duct tape things*.
> 
> 
> It's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". For many, the end of Replay forced the issue.
> 
> 
> Regardless, *sticking with the tube TV will leave you with nothing*, and that'll happen WAY sooner rather than later.



From my point-of-view, *MANY* of us "Oldtimers" had everything set up *EXACTLY* as we wanted it several years ago (i.e. *PRE-ATSC / PRE-DIGITAL*)







. Then, we either (INVOLUNTARILY or NOT!) retired, or became (INVOLUNTARILY or NOT!) unemployed / disabled and our incomes (along with our RETIREMENT FUNDS) *PLUMMETED!!!*










So, *PLEASE* don't pretend to tell us what's best for us.










YES, the world keeps moving forward - *AND*, more and more, I keep wondering how my parents (born ~1915), and others from their era, dealt with all of this "*New Technology*" (i.e. Radio -> Black & White Televison -> Color Television; Rotary Dial Telephones -> Touch Tone Telephones -> Cellphones, etc...). Modern Marvels (on the History Channel) has a few shows highlighting the "*Old / AncientTechnology*" (i.e. 60s Tech / 70s Tech / 80s Tech / 90s Tech / Retro Tech) and as a '_former_' TECHIE, I certainly recognize *MANY* of the products that I've bought, still own and have now become '_antiques_'







. In fact, while sitting on the "Throne" today, reading the recent (HARDCOPY / PAPER!) issue of '' (KM World, PC World, ???), I read an article about uses for ANTIQUATED SMARTPHONES!







Geez, my Motorola V195 (T-Mobile: $10/year after the initial $100 to get to GOLD status) does *EVERYTHING* I need it to do - i.e. Wife calls me for '_something_'; I call home for '_something_'; OR if I broke down somewhere.


YES, keep posting your FACTS / beliefs - *BUT* don't "Ass-U-Me" that everyone *MUST* follow your recommendations.







At my current age and discretionary funds level, there are *VERY* few (NEW TECHNOLOGY) things that I have any *STRONG* urge to purchase.


P.S. You can thank the "_Recently Re-Activated / ReplayTV 'Old Geezer_'" *KenL* for my '_diversion_' back to OVER-FORMATTING!







Boy, did I *OVERDO* it back in ~2004/2005!


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20700639
> 
> 
> ...P.S. You can thank the "_Recently Re-Activated / ReplayTV 'Old Geezer_'" *KenL* for my '_diversion_' back to OVER-FORMATTING!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boy, did I *OVERDO* it back in ~2004/2005!



Glad I was the inspiration to get back on track.










BTW looks great, all the formatting makes it all the more interesting to quote.


Content is topical and impressive, as well.


Is this the _new_ _plateau_ for the iconic era?


----------



## Ed Rempalski

Wow, good stuff... At some point everyone eventually holds on the tech step that they are comfortable with and the world just moves on as it always has, no harm, no foul.


When I just recently pulled our RPTV out of the family room, I couldn't give it away (and could barely move the monster). The new Flat panel is 4x higher performance, 1/3 the energy use, and 1/3 the price of what it replaced. If it doesn't die, I'd say I'm done there.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ed Rempalski* /forum/post/20700628
> 
> 
> ...*Then use low cost X-Box's configured to boot straight into Media Center Extender Mode as your actual connection to TV's*...



Why not use a (Early Version / Discontinued / Inexpensive / etc....) "Media Streamer" instead?


I have a *Seagate FreeAgent Theatre+* and a *Patriot PCMPBO25* (both LT $50 AR from Newegg) that play ReplayTV MPG files.


Personally, I have this OBTUSE idea that I can download video files (via '_whatever_' method) and then view them via "Media Streamers".

YES, AFAICT, the X-Box is *VERY* "pretty" - *ESPECIALLY* with XBMC, but at what cost?


----------



## nutzo

I'd likely still be running my 2 Replays for at least another year, or as long as my cable company still broadcast in analog. However, after buying a nice HD TV on clearance last year, I caught the HD bug










I was already putting a Media PC togather to stream HD movies, watch home movies and pictures. So I just ended up added a dual tuner card to take over the Replay function.


I will miss the easy to use interface on the Replay, and I'm sure I'll hear complaints about how it's harder (takes more button presses) to do most things on Windows Media center.

Hopefully it will be at least 2 steps forward for the 1 step back.


As for as others deciding to go Tivo or HTPC or try and stay with the Replay:


1. The simplest solution is to just invest in a Tivo or go with your Cable company DVR.


2. The cheapest solution (at least short term) would be to use WiRNS or the 3rd party service that is being talked about on this board, assuming they work.


3. Most complicated solution is to setup a HTPC. Getting everything to work correctly and reliably is not a simple task. The basic Replay replacement was reasonably easy, although making sure all the settings where correct, so the system could go to sleep (and save power), and then wake up from the remote, took a bit of digging.


Getting the system to pass 5.1 audio from streaming, video files, or the TV shows, over the HDMI, through the TV and to my reciever was alot more of a challange.

Also getting the old universal remote we currently use to work with Media Center took some work.


Main advantage of the Media Center is expandability. If I decide I need more than the 2 tuners I have, I can add another dual tuner card for $110.

If my cable company switches to encrypted QAM for everything except local channels (a likely possibility in the next couple years), I can add a cable card tuner (4 tuner card is $300). As for storage, I currently have a small system disk and a 2TB disk for data. My case will hold 2 more 2TB drives, and since they are standard SATA drives, I can later switch to 3TB or whatever else they come out with.


----------



## TheRealAnubis

A question I have about Freesco is - do you have to have the modem hooked up to an actual telephone line while it is trying to discover it in setup?


I have tried four different computers, from old win95 boxes all the way to my newest machine, and it fails to detect a modem in every one even though every one has a modem installed.


----------



## Reden

No, you do not need a phone line connected for modem detection.


In modem detection it sends a "AT" command to your modem, which should respond "OK". Nothing touches the phone line.


Robert


----------



## mpmp0

i know the quit date for the guide is the end of the month, but is any one having trouble programming any thing past Monday, July 18, 2011?


don't know if this makes a difference, but i'm in Chicago.


thanks.


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20698678
> 
> 
> ...Log onto all three ReplayTV-related forums daily (or as much as possible) and READ! From my point-of-view, the gurus, like *Glenn1963*, *hdonzis*, *Reden*, etc... are doing an EXCELLENT JOB keeping the masses informed of their progress. And, '_re-activated_' oldtimers, like *Space*, *t.d.*, *gatomon*, *jlv*, *g501*, etc... are testing and/or 'translating' further for the less / non-technical crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The soup will be ready when it's ready and not a moment before...



Did you forget about the *Member*, the *Planet Master* and the *AVS Special Mumbler*?


(whatever happened to *sfhub* anyway)


----------



## jlv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yakuman* /forum/post/20688341
> 
> 
> At the risk of sounding impatient, what are the odds an alternative authentication server will be up and running before the big shutdown?



You don't need an authentication server... it ends up that there is a trivial, *constant* response for the activation (getca4.pl) and time (vtime2.pl) authentication checks.


You really just need a guide service. Running WiRNS locally will give you this, using any guide source (and I assume WiRNS will have the authentication bypass soon). The other option is the proposed "Replacement ReplayTV Service" that can serve up Schedules Direct listings in RNS protocol form (and also service up the authentication bypass).


----------



## pshovest

I've got shows ~50 shows programmed from today thru 7/29 using the DNNA/DirectTV/ReplayTV EPG.


----------



## mpmp0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pshovest* /forum/post/20707250
> 
> 
> I've got shows ~50 shows programmed from today thru 7/29 using the DNNA/DirectTV/ReplayTV EPG.



thanks for the update!


gotta go to my Mom's and see what's going on. her Replay schedule didn't fill in past Monday.


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pshovest* /forum/post/20707250
> 
> 
> I've got shows ~50 shows programmed from today thru 7/29 using the DNNA/DirectTV/ReplayTV EPG.



I think that even if the Replays become "deactivated" in august, you'll still be able to get to those recorded shows using WiRNS or DVA.


----------



## armornone

This whole situation is total BS!!!!! I forked over like $250 extra to get a lifetime subscription instead of paying by the month. What do I get in return? a expensive paperweight!!! Replaytv is better than TIVO and gave the user more option, commercial skipping, why in the world is TIVO the standard and replay users being treated like second class citizens.


----------



## Cobalt_Crysalis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *armornone* /forum/post/20707772
> 
> 
> This whole situation is total BS!!!!! I forked over like $250 extra to get a lifetime subscription instead of paying by the month. What do I get in return? a expensive paperweight!!! Replaytv is better than TIVO and gave the user more option, commercial skipping, why in the world is TIVO the standard and replay users being treated like second class citizens.




Welcome to the party.


----------



## D_JA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *armornone* /forum/post/20707772
> 
> 
> This whole situation is total BS!!!!! I forked over like $250 extra to get a lifetime subscription instead of paying by the month. What do I get in return? a expensive paperweight!!! Replaytv is better than TIVO and gave the user more option, commercial skipping, why in the world is TIVO the standard and replay users being treated like second class citizens.



It's the old beta vs. vhs syndrome


----------



## Steevo55

What would be interesting is to find out who bought the last lifetime sub and when. If it was 3 or 4 months ago, and it may very well be, that's getting pretty close to the shutdown to be selling lifetime subscriptions.


I am pretty sure they must have sold at least a few in the last 12 months. They might be in trouble on those. Fraud.


I imagine anyone who bought a lifetime replaytv subscription within the last year would easily be able to get their money back.


And they should definitely put a complaint through their state attorney general.


----------



## Korat

It took me two days to read all the posts in this thread (in my free time).


I was a Replay user since the very start and still like the GUI better than most other PVRs... In 2008 however, I did go all HD and moved to Tivo HDs. The only things I dislike about Tivo is the lack of a Record indication in the Guide (unless it's recording right then) and that you have to COPY a show from another room to watch it instead of just streaming it like the ReplayTV does. My cable TV has the content all in lockdown, so that option is mostly worthless. (Oh and I also miss Poopli show sharing...







)


I gave one of my 45XX units to my mom to replace her failing SS2000 and now she is all upset about this mess. I don't think she is going to want to run VMWare manually every day or so on her iMac to get WiRNS to update the guides. (I wish there was a MAC version WiRNS). I do have an extra Mac mini that I could setup with XP and WiRNS as a server maybe, but it is going to use extra power and she lives on a very small fixed income. Spending even the extra $7 a month to make her guide work again is also out.


I would however like to thank everyone that are working so hard to come up with solutions to this problem! Your AMAZING!!!


----------



## photosurrealism

Has someone WineBottled WirNS? I haven't had time to experiment enough to get it working yet on my Mac. That'd be the easiest way to get a "Mac" version.


----------



## lizard_boy

Wow, crazy; it's the end of an era. I always wondered how long "lifetime" would really last.


----------



## TheRealAnubis

Thanks for that info. Any ideas on why I would not get a modem detected after testing several computers with working modems, from old to new?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Korat* /forum/post/20716854
> 
> 
> 
> I gave one of my 45XX units to my mom to replace her failing SS2000 and now she is all upset about this mess. I don't think she is going to want to run VMWare manually every day or so on her iMac to get WiRNS to update the guides. (I wish there was a MAC version WiRNS). I do have an extra Mac mini that I could setup with XP and WiRNS as a server maybe, but it is going to use extra power and she lives on a very small fixed income. Spending even the extra $7 a month to make her guide work again is also out.



You do realize that you don't have to have the WiRNS server up and running all the time. And you don't need to do the update daily... A beater laptop should do just fine.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## seattlesluff

I'm gettin' real nervous folks. Replaytv "D" (Defunct) day is approaching and I still don't see any easy (no-brainer) way to keep my RTV going. I've read all of the applicable forum posts (I think) but they are confusing. Ain't no way I'm gonna setup Wirns after looking at the setup guide! Please don't make me switch to Tivo!


----------



## dryduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seattlesluff* /forum/post/20721614
> 
> 
> I'm gettin' real nervous folks. Replaytv "D" (Defunct) day is approaching and I still don't see any easy (no-brainer) way to keep my RTV going. I've read all of the applicable forum posts (I think) but they are confusing. Ain't no way I'm gonna setup Wirns after looking at the setup guide! Please don't make me switch to Tivo!



I had the same thought as you regarding WiRNS for the longest time... I didn't have a big need for it until a few months ago and even then was reluctant to try it because it's intimidating. When I did, it wasn't really that hard to get going, though the docs are sparse (or info is just hard to find) on some topics and some concepts are just confusing at first (like, why do I have to tell WiRNS what provider my RTV uses, and what happens if they don't match?). Maybe, since there will be a big influx of new users with the 3.0 "mothership-free" version, someone will come up with a real easy getting started guide. I suggest giving it a try now using the DNNA listings while they're still there - once that works it should be pretty simple to switch to Schedules Direct to keep things going.


I don't think "LaHo" ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1345900 ) is a sure thing but it is your best hope for a close-to-no-brainer solution.


----------



## dryduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steevo55* /forum/post/20709962
> 
> 
> What would be interesting is to find out who bought the last lifetime sub and when. If it was 3 or 4 months ago, and it may very well be, that's getting pretty close to the shutdown to be selling lifetime subscriptions.



???


While used lifetime units have been floating around on ebay and such, I don't think ReplayTV has sold a unit, period, in what, 5 or 6 years???


----------



## adam1991

But they were still allowing people to buy one-time-fee subscriptions to their service.


Many were on the monthly for whatever reason, and had the ability to switch those over.


----------



## ChampaignWalt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seattlesluff* /forum/post/20721614
> 
> 
> I'm gettin' real nervous folks. Replaytv "D" (Defunct) day is approaching and I still don't see any easy (no-brainer) way to keep my RTV going. I've read all of the applicable forum posts (I think) but they are confusing. Ain't no way I'm gonna setup Wirns after looking at the setup guide! Please don't make me switch to Tivo!



Wirns is suprisingly easy to install and get running in a basic installation. Looking at Planet Replay and all of the threads discussing all of the features and how to tweak them, I can understand why it might seem overwhelming and too complex, but a simple install to do just the basics is acutally more easy than I thought it would be.


Here's my suggestion, if you have a pc sitting around on your network, go ahead and install wirns on it, get a free schedules direct 7 day trial account, and point a replay at it as its DNS.


----------



## tjamba

I've been trying to get WiRNS installed and stabilized on my 4516 since Father's Day. It seems to be working pretty well now and my next challenge is to get the IR blaster codes for my Comcast DTA installed. I am pulling schedule info from Schedules Direct thru a wireless bridge that connects my RTV my WiRNS PC and is seems to work most of the time. I notice now, that if pull up the Channel Guide info using my RTV remote it only shows information through 7/31/11. However, if I pull up the Channel Guide info via the WiRNS green ball, it shows info through 8/1/11. I thought that net connect would continue to keep the channel guide info current even though the RTV folks won't.


Does anyone know if this is true or not? I.E. will I only be able to see channel guide info beyond the 7/31/11 cutoff date via my WiRNS PC?


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjamba* /forum/post/20722463
> 
> 
> ...Does anyone know if this is true or not? I.E. will I only be able to see channel guide info beyond the 7/31/11 cutoff date via my WiRNS PC?



I'm not using SD but my 5xxx replays are still showing the full 12 days thru 8/1 proxied from the mothership.


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tjamba* /forum/post/20722463
> 
> 
> I've been trying to get WiRNS installed and stabilized on my 4516 since Father's Day. It seems to be working pretty well now and my next challenge is to get the IR blaster codes for my Comcast DTA installed. I am pulling schedule info from Schedules Direct thru a wireless bridge that connects my RTV my WiRNS PC and is seems to work most of the time. I notice now, that if pull up the Channel Guide info using my RTV remote it only shows information through 7/31/11. However, if I pull up the Channel Guide info via the WiRNS green ball, it shows info through 8/1/11. I thought that net connect would continue to keep the channel guide info current even though the RTV folks won't.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this is true or not? I.E. will I only be able to see channel guide info beyond the 7/31/11 cutoff date via my WiRNS PC?



My 5080 guide (connected to WiRNs 3) has through 8/2.


My 2020 guide has through 7/29. Looks like in 3 days I'll know if DNNA includes August.


----------



## Korat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20719924
> 
> 
> You do realize that you don't have to have the WiRNS server up and running all the time. And you don't need to do the update daily... A beater laptop should do just fine. Cheers! -Doug



Yes, but my mom is 84 years old and lives 2 hours away from me. I don't think she is going to want to learn how to run WiRNS on a beater laptop to update her ReplayTV even once a week. It was hard just to get her using a ReplayTV and Mac, but now that she uses and loves both of them, adding Windows and WiRNS to the mix may make her decide to just give it all up...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *photosurrealism* /forum/post/20718034
> 
> 
> Has someone WineBottled WirNS? I haven't had time to experiment enough to get it working yet on my Mac. That'd be the easiest way to get a "Mac" version.



photosurrealism, I like the idea of getting WiRNS to run in a WINEBottle in Mac OS that was asking about... Hmmmmm I'll have to look into that.


There is also "MONO" an open source implementation of Microsoft's .NET Framework based on the ECMA standards for C# and the Common Language Runtime.


Maybe WiRNS 3.0 could use MONO and become cross platform???








http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Korat* /forum/post/20722844
> 
> 
> Yes, but my mom is 84 years old and lives 2 hours away from me. I don't think she is going to want to learn how to run WiRNS on a beater laptop to update her ReplayTV even once a week. It was hard just to get her using a ReplayTV and Mac, but now that she uses and loves both of them, adding Windows and WiRNS to the mix may make her decide to just give it all up...



What about some type of VPN / Network Tunnel from her place to yours.... And you take care of the problem remotely....


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20722924
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Korat* /forum/post/20722844
> 
> 
> Yes, but my mom is 84 years old and lives 2 hours away from me. I don't think she is going to want to learn how to run WiRNS on a beater laptop to update her ReplayTV even once a week. It was hard just to get her using a ReplayTV and Mac, but now that she uses and loves both of them, adding Windows and WiRNS to the mix may make her decide to just give it all up...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about some type of VPN / Network Tunnel from her place to yours.... And you take care of the problem remotely....
Click to expand...


Or, if you can get a static address from your ISP, then you can setup her RTV to net connect to yours. WiRNS has a net connect only option...


Henry


----------



## drwmax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20719924
> 
> 
> You do realize that you don't have to have the WiRNS server up and running all the time. And you don't need to do the update daily... A beater laptop should do just fine.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



Here's what I'd like to do:


Install Wirns on my mac laptop that has Windows 7 running under Fusion

Bring the laptop into the bedroom where the replayTV device is running. Bedroom has wifi access for laptop but replaytv device currently uses dial-up connection through phone line as there is no ethernet port in the bedroom.

Ethernet connect the laptop to the replayTV device just long enough to download the show information

Detach the laptop from the replaytv device


I believe this is doable. My questions are:

(1) How frequently would I need to do this? (I suppose once a week would suffice unless show info is changing more frequently than that.)

(2) Beyond the standard WIRNS 3 FAQ & instructions, is there anything else I need to do to make this 'offline most of the time' setup work? Will a direct ethernet connection to my windows laptop (without using a router) mess things up?


Or any other suggested tips based on my situation? (I would imagine my situation might be somewhat common.)


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drwmax* /forum/post/20723445
> 
> 
> Here's what I'd like to do:
> 
> 
> Install Wirns on my mac laptop that has Windows 7 running under Fusion
> 
> Bring the laptop into the bedroom where the replayTV device is running. Bedroom has wifi access for laptop but replaytv device currently uses dial-up connection through phone line as there is no ethernet port in the bedroom.
> 
> Ethernet connect the laptop to the replayTV device just long enough to download the show information
> 
> Detach the laptop from the replaytv device
> 
> 
> I believe this is doable. My questions are:
> 
> (1) How frequently would I need to do this? (I suppose once a week would suffice unless show info is changing more frequently than that.)
> 
> (2) Beyond the standard WIRNS 3 FAQ & instructions, is there anything else I need to do to make this 'offline most of the time' setup work? Will a direct ethernet connection to my windows laptop (without using a router) mess things up?
> 
> 
> Or any other suggested tips based on my situation? (I would imagine my situation might be somewhat common.)



First, you will need a crossover cable instead of a patch cable for connecting the RTV to the laptop directly.


I am hoping to employ a scenario similar to the one that you are proposing...


The WiRNS machine will have to be on line at some point to GET the guide data. I am also under the impression that while the RTV is updating, the laptop WILL need an internet connection active in order to fetch the time to set the clock. I may be wrong, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.


Once a week should be fine.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seattlesluff* /forum/post/20721614
> 
> 
> I'm gettin' real nervous folks. *Replaytv "D" (Defunct) day is approaching and I still don't see any easy (no-brainer) way to keep my RTV going. I've read all of the applicable forum posts (I think) but they are confusing*. Ain't no way I'm gonna setup Wirns after looking at the setup guide! Please don't make me switch to Tivo!



You Must Be Reading the WRONG Threads.







*You Have to Invest Some of YOUR Time Reading First...* 
As I just explained to *Bennett3* , you have to read (the right threads, of course). Then you have to decide if the current solutions are too technical and/or too expensive for YOU and go from there.


IMO, many of us "Old Farts" / Techies are going with *WiRNS 3.x* and *Schedules Direct* (or the *FREE* *MSN Scraper*). Those less technical, and with the funds, wishing to stick with ReplayTV may go with *LaHo*. Otherwise, TiVo or a cable company PVR are other alternatives.


----------



## drwmax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20723483
> 
> 
> First, you will need a crossover cable instead of a patch cable for connecting the RTV to the laptop directly.
> 
> 
> I am hoping to employ a scenario similar to the one that you are proposing...
> 
> 
> The WiRNS machine will have to be on line at some point to GET the guide data. I am also under the impression that while the RTV is updating, the laptop WILL need an internet connection active in order to fetch the time to set the clock. I may be wrong, but I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> 
> Once a week should be fine.



Thanks, dstoffa. The room has wifi so the laptop can stay connected while the replaytv & WIRNS do their magic. That's option 1. I used to have a crossover cable but will have to see if I still do. Option 2 would be to buy a wireless access point for the replaytv device (I already have 3 airport expresses that I use as wireless extenders or access points so could test with one of them), and then just leave the laptop on the network, and run WIRNS when I want to without the crossover cable.


I guess my question, yet to be answered is, if I use option 2, then the router will give the replaytv device an IP address. If I just crossover cable the laptop to the replaytv device, then what? Does the replaytv device need an IP address to plug into the WIRNS app? (If so, how do I give it one?) Or does the replaytv just poll back to the WIRNS device, etc.? I should probably just bite the bullet for the WAP; thought the crossover cable would be cheaper, but also that by bringing the laptop into the room physically I could make sure each side was working fine (at least to start) without running back and forth. I suppose if the WAP works I can still bring the laptop into the room. So pretty sure WAP will work, but have to spend $99 (and confirm that the replaytv device, where it is in the back of that room, will actually get a connection and an IP). So still concerned will crossover work?


----------



## photosurrealism

(Macs don't need Ethernet crossover cables- they just do it. Really.)


----------



## drwmax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *photosurrealism* /forum/post/20723705
> 
> 
> (Macs don't need Ethernet crossover cables- they just do it. Really.)



That's what I've always experienced, PS. Some windows guy telling me I need a crossover cable, but I plug in a regular ethernet cable and it 'just works'. Would assume that would continue (on the hardware) side if I am (forced) to use Windows 7 through Fusion...


----------



## Reden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seattlesluff* /forum/post/20721614
> 
> 
> I'm gettin' real nervous folks. Replaytv "D" (Defunct) day is approaching and I still don't see any easy (no-brainer) way to keep my RTV going.



As long as you're not looking for it to be free, there's no reason to worry.. The LaHo (Last Hope ReplayTV Service) service should be up and running by then.


Robert


----------



## erickotz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drwmax* /forum/post/20723744
> 
> 
> That's what I've always experienced, PS. Some windows guy telling me I need a crossover cable, but I plug in a regular ethernet cable and it 'just works'. Would assume that would continue (on the hardware) side if I am (forced) to use Windows 7 through Fusion...



As long as it is a modern machine (mac or PC) you won't need a crossover cable. It has nothing to do with Mac vs PC.

Essentially, every modern piece of equipment does auto MDI/MDI-X (crossover)


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erickotz* /forum/post/20724208
> 
> 
> As long as it is a modern machine (mac or PC) you won't need a crossover cable. It has nothing to do with Mac vs PC.
> 
> Essentially, every modern piece of equipment does auto MDI/MDI-X (crossover)



True. Modern stuff is more automatic. That being said, a crossover cable WILL work. A patch cable MAY work.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## newRTVuser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *photosurrealism* /forum/post/20723705
> 
> 
> (Macs don't need Ethernet crossover cables- they just do it. Really.)



Yup, it's called Auto-MDIX and was invented by Hewlett Packard.

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/ipl.../automdix.html


----------



## adam1991

Yup. Not an Apple thing at all. Every gigabit connection includes the ability to figure this out. Not just Macs.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20722793
> 
> 
> My 5080 guide (connected to WiRNs 3) has through 8/2.
> 
> 
> My 2020 guide has through 7/29. Looks like in 3 days I'll know if DNNA includes August.



One of my 50xx boxes has guide data for 8/1 as of last night. Didn't check this morning. It still connects via modem the old-fashioned way.


My guess is that data will continue to load via the DNNA mother-ship out into August.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20726677
> 
> 
> ...My guess is that data will continue to load via the DNNA mother-ship out into August.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



That *was* my guess but now it looks like a hard cutoff.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenL* /forum/post/20726711
> 
> 
> That *was* my guess but now it looks like a hard cutoff.



Well, I'll check tonight to see if it has loaded 8/2 data. It HAD August 1 data in the guide, which is past their 7/31 date.


The other question is, "Will my EPG just go away at 11:59:59 on 7/31/2011?" without patching the unit?


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## jdavisatl

btw have a thread going on planetreplay re: using a cable directly from RTV to a laptop, see http://www.planetreplay.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=15844


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20726764
> 
> 
> Well, I'll check tonight to see if it has loaded 8/2 data. It HAD August 1 data in the guide, which is past their 7/31 date.
> 
> 
> The other question is, "Will my EPG just go away at 11:59:59 on 7/31/2011?" without patching the unit?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



That's what I have (and what I thought) but I got nothing since. There is always that thing where the ReplayTV data *massaging* seemed to only be (perhaps) 5 days a week, thus fits and starts in the endpoint, but I suspect this is it.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20726764
> 
> 
> Well, I'll check tonight to see if it has loaded 8/2 data. It HAD August 1 data in the guide, which is past their 7/31 date.
> 
> 
> The other question is, "Will my EPG just go away at 11:59:59 on 7/31/2011?" without patching the unit?
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> -Doug



It looks like August 1st will be the last day of data, we are already 12 days away from August 2nd so you should have that data by now if it wasn't cut off.


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20688236
> 
> 
> * REPLAYTV DOOMSDAY COUNTDOWN *
> 
> 
> A sad, sad day it will be...



And more abrupt than we might have hoped.


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20728328
> 
> 
> It looks like August 1st will be the last day of data, we are already 12 days away from August 2nd so you should have that data by now if it wasn't cut off.



Seems to bolster this .










So if they can cut that off so cleanly, perhaps the janitor won't be in such a hurry with those Timex Sinclair's ... but maybe he needs to clear out that supply closet before midnight as well...


----------



## barmar

We only have 8/1 data up to 8pm. That daytime data was simply included along with the 7/31 primetime data, because that's how the EPG's "day" works.


----------



## joblo

Because the "EPG's day" is UTC-based...


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20728557
> 
> 
> We only have 8/1 data up to 8pm. That daytime data was simply included along with the 7/31 primetime data, because that's how the EPG's "day" works.



Well, if that is the case, and you plan on going with your own solution, there is no reason to delay.. Next slow day, make the change...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barmar* /forum/post/20728557
> 
> 
> We only have 8/1 data up to 8pm. That daytime data was simply included along with the 7/31 primetime data, because that's how the EPG's "day" works.



Well, it is UTC based, and the current guide DOES include the FULL listings for the entire day of August 1st (in UTC that is); it has nothing to do with prime-time.


On the east coast, we are currently 4 hours behind UTC, so midnight UTC minus 4 hours is 8pm. On the west coast, they will have guide data up until 5pm PDT on 8/1.


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20728769
> 
> 
> Well, it is UTC based, and the current guide DOES include the FULL listings for the entire day of August 1st (in UTC that is); it has nothing to do with prime-time.



Well, in a way, I think it does. Not prime time, per se, but U.S. time generally.


I mean, if listings do indeed end with 8/1 UTC, it's probably because DNNA has a contract for listings through the end of July, and because that contract is for a U.S. service, that means the end of July in U.S. time.


But because the data is chunked in UTC-based days, it's much easier just to serve up all of 8/1 UTC than to craft multiple TZ-specific subsets just so the data can end at precisely 23:59 local time on 7/31.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20729697
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> But because the data is chunked in UTC-based days, it's much easier just to serve up all of 8/1 UTC than to craft multiple TZ-specific subsets just so the data can end at precisely 23:59 local time on 7/31.



Yes I will agree with you on that, but you pulled the old switcheroo with "prime time" -> "US Time"


----------



## joblo

True that.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20729697
> 
> 
> Well, in a way, I think it does. Not prime time, per se, but U.S. time generally.
> 
> 
> I mean, if listings do indeed end with 8/1 UTC, it's probably because DNNA has a contract for listings through the end of July, and because that contract is for a U.S. service, that means the end of July in U.S. time.
> 
> 
> But because the data is chunked in UTC-based days, it's much easier just to serve up all of 8/1 UTC than to craft multiple TZ-specific subsets just so the data can end at precisely 23:59 local time on 7/31.



The guide data is served in UTC in the first place. You can see this in every provider that uses TMS, and you can see it in the protocol that you can download from Schedules Direct. So, when you ask for guide data for 7/31/2001, that is through 23:59:59 7/31/2001 UTC. TMS serves guide data for all over the world, so it doesn't have anything to do with the US time zones, it has to do that almost anything computer related and non-location specific uses UTC...


Henry


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20729844
> 
> 
> The guide data is served in UTC in the first place. You can see this in every provider that uses TMS, and you can see it in the protocol that you can download from Schedules Direct. So, when you ask for guide data for 7/31/2001, that is through 23:59:59 7/31/2001 UTC. TMS serves guide data for all over the world, so it doesn't have anything to do with the US time zones, it has to do that almost anything computer related and non-location specific uses UTC...
> 
> 
> Henry



Henry,

What he is saying is that while the data is distributed in a per-day manner with each day being a UTC based day, the contract with DNNA uses US based days, so in order to fulfull the contract of supplying data for the entire month of July (in the US) they needed to include one extra day, otherwise it would only cover up until 5pm (PDT), 8pm (EDT) and not provide all the data until the end of the month.


So instead of just supplying 7 hours of data for 8/1 it is just easier to supply the whole day.


So while the data itself has nothing to do with US timezones, the contract does.


----------



## truckie36

At what time of the day will you have the most up to date data for that days prime time (EDT)? FX frequently doesn't know when their shows will end till the air date and I want to make sure my net connects happen at the proper time.


----------



## hdonzis

Whatever your time zone offset, any time after that. So, in the Summer time, for you it would be any time after 8:00 PM (-4 hour offset), and in the Winter time, any time after 7:00 PM (-5 hour offset)...


Henry


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20730177
> 
> 
> Whatever your time zone offset, any time after that. So, in the Summer time, for you it would be any time after 8:00 PM (-4 hour offset), and in the Winter time, any time after 7:00 PM (-5 hour offset)...
> 
> 
> Henry



Are you sure about that?


I understand midnight UTC is the cutoff for when you can start downloading the additional day of data, but is the data for the current day and following day necessarily more up to date then if you did it closer to the time your important shows are about to start?


I mean, how often is TMS data updated? When is it updated?


In EDT timezone, is it theoretically possible to download data for today at 8:30pm and have different data then if you waited and downloaded instead at 7:30pm the following day?


I mean if you are concerned primarily with prime time shows (8pm-11pm) having the correct schedule, might it not be a better idea to do your schedule update at 7pm or 7:30pm, right before prime-time?


Also, how does Schedules Direct work? Do they download data from TMS once a day, so that even if TMS updates that data, it will not be reflected in SD until the next day when they do the update?


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20730300
> 
> 
> Are you sure about that?



Yep, I'm sure. And, I'm not saying that it's to the second, I'm saying that it's after midnight UTC, which you can translate to your own local time...


Henry


----------



## joblo

Seems to me I've recently gotten updated prime time listings on my TiVos by forcing connections in mid-to-late afternoon, ET.


If everybody is accessing the same backend TMS database, I suppose it might be the same with Replay, but I haven't forced any afternoon Replay connections in years, so I don't know.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20730319
> 
> 
> Yep, I'm sure. And, I'm not saying that it's to the second, I'm saying that it's after midnight UTC, which you can translate to your own local time...
> 
> 
> Henry



So essentially what you are saying is that once a days data is made available for download it does not change for 24 hours, correct?


So whether you download that day immediately when it is available or 23 hours later, it will still be the exact same data.


----------



## hdonzis

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Space* 
So whether you download that day immediately when it is available or 23 hours later, it will still be the exact same data.
I don't know if they make updates during the day or not. When I've seen surprise changes, like the President announcing something, it doesn't usually change. However, I have seen a couple of times where something changes for the day, and Zap2It shows the change, but the RTV had already downloaded guide data and had the wrong information. I think now with my net connect times being more regular, I'm hoping it's going to be better...


So, the only case I can't confirm is that a change is made in the actual airing day, and that TMS changes the data after it had already been created for that day. I'm thinking that maybe something like Zap2It might pull "live" data from TMS and be able to show real time changes. However, DNNA has to build a database out of their feed, so that is what looks like it only happens once a day. So, basically your statement about it not mattering when you download the guide data may be applicable to DNNA data only, not TMS data in general, I don't know. Robert would probably be a lot better person to ask if TMS makes changes to the current day's schedule during that day available or not...


Henry


----------



## robkwil61

I also noticed that DVD Archive guide data only goes until 8/1 at 7pm CST.


----------



## gring40

I may use my SS manually for awhile; is the nag screen going away?


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20731624
> 
> 
> I may use my SS manually for awhile; is the nag screen going away?



Some people seem to think the frequency for showing the nag screens will effectively block access to the Replay guide on 8/1. Others think the nag will show ONCE on 8/1 then disappear. I've got my 2020 set up and will see what happens. It may be usable or may become a brick (a brick with a hard drive).


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20731748
> 
> 
> Some people seem to think the frequency for showing the nag screens will effectively block access to the Replay guide on 8/1. Others think the nag will show ONCE on 8/1 then disappear. I've got my 2020 set up and will see what happens. It may be usable or may become a brick (a brick with a hard drive).



All those can likely be fixed on a Showstopper with a little bit of touble. The bigger problem is that repeating manual recordings no longer work on a SS once the listings expire. We haven't figured out a workaround for that yet.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20731155
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So, basically your statement about it not mattering when you download the guide data may be applicable to DNNA data only, not TMS data in general, I don't know. Robert would probably be a lot better person to ask if TMS makes changes to the current day's schedule during that day available or not...
> 
> 
> Henry



My statement was not referring to DNNA data, I am talking about "the new world" of SD data.


I guess the question is this...


If the Replay has already downloaded data for today (at 1am), and that data on the server (in this case WiRNS, which downloaded it from SD) changes (such as a Presidential address) for the current day (SD updated the listing at 5pm), if you do a second net-connect (at 7:30pm), will it update the data for today with the new info?


In other words, if it has already downloaded today's data, will it just think "I already downloaded today's listings, so I'm not going to bother doing it again", even though the "server" (in this case WiRNS) has updated data?


Now, the second related question is the same scenario as above, except you do not do the update at 1am, instead the only update for that day is at 7:30pm, does it get the update that occured in TMS data at 5pm?



The second question is in regards to SD itself, is the data on SD periodically updated throughout the day, or is it just a "snapshot" that is taken once per day and doesn't change for 24 hours? If it is just a snapshot taken every 24 hours, then my two questions above are moot, since the data will not change throughout the day (as far as WiRNS or the Replay are concerned).


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20731624
> 
> 
> I may use my SS manually for awhile; is the nag screen going away?



From my testing on a 5040 (changing the Exp and Eff dates in the authorization message), it looks like the nag screens on ReplayGuide and ChannelGuide will go away after 7/31 5:43:21 AM UTC , but the "Service Activation" screen after you exit ReplayZones is there to stay.


Of course this was on a 5040, so Showstopper/3xxx may behave differently (but I doubt it).


----------



## KenL

That would be weird to see activation nags on a showstopper. I may have to connect my 3xxx to find out.


----------



## joblo

Don't bother. It just says "feature disabled" or something like that.


But zones will be useless without data anyway, won't they? (Never really liked/used zones, myself, but my impression was always that they only looked at future programs, not stuff already in the Replay Guide. Is that right?)


Re the SS repeat record problem, it's possible that we might be able to fix that with some help from *satpro*. Still pondering that...


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20732232
> 
> 
> ...it's possible that we might be able to fix that with some help from *satpro*. Still pondering that...



We may need to make an image of that available. So I guess no blaster support since no tuning? But that might be fixed with registry overwriting.


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20732232
> 
> 
> ...But zones will be useless without data anyway, won't they? (Never really liked/used zones, myself, but my impression was always that they only looked at future programs, not stuff already in the Replay Guide. Is that right?)



Right. It just scans the listings for flags/criteria.


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re the SS repeat record problem, it's possible that we might be able to fix that with some help from satpro. Still pondering that...



Thanks to all for your responses re the nag screens; guess time will tell, but I never use zones so never see the Service Activation nag screen.


My curiosity is piqued; what is satpro?


----------



## gring40

Here's my SS nag screen, which comes up occasionally, at least the first few times I do something. I'm sure it's distressingly familiar to all.


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenL* /forum/post/20732198
> 
> 
> That would be weird to see activation nags on a showstopper. I may have to connect my 3xxx to find out.



It pops up a window with "Service Activation Reminder" in the header, and then a message below that "This feature has been disabled" with an "OK" button in the lower right corner.


I have no idea why they set this to "0" instead of leaving it at "1".


----------



## smckean

lnoland,


I just read your 6/18/11 post on MythTV. I thank you very much. I've been debating with myself for years about moving from RTV to Myth (in order to get HD). Your post was invaluable to me. Thanks for taking the time.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20732083
> 
> 
> In other words, if it has already downloaded today's data, will it just think "I already downloaded today's listings, so I'm not going to bother doing it again", even though the "server" (in this case WiRNS) has updated data?



The answer to this is self evident if you look at the WiRNS log from a net connect...


Henry


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20733092
> 
> 
> The answer to this is self evident if you look at the WiRNS log from a net connect...
> 
> 
> Henry



Ah, OK, can someone post a log with some netconnects please (or point me to one where it has two netconnects without any errors) Just do the regular netconnect then another one after it. I just want to see if I can figure it out.


I would do this myself, but I don't have my Replays set up to netconnect and get data through WiRNS yet.


Thanks


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20733297
> 
> 
> Ah, OK, can someone post a log with some netconnects please (or point me to one where it has two netconnects without any errors) Just do the regular netconnect then another one after it. I just want to see if I can figure it out.
> 
> 
> I would do this myself, but I don't have my Replays set up to netconnect and get data through WiRNS yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Here's the log for 2 netconnects in a row (5080 to WiRNS 3):


WiRNS Log WiRNS Log Feed.

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] WiRNS v3.0.4220 build 42019

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] (c) 2004-2011 rbolen70, Glenn1963 and hdonzis

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] Portions (c) 2003-2004 kjac

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] C:\\WiRNS\\wirns.log has been backed up to C:\\WiRNS\\wirns.log.20110724085214.txt

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] Deleted wirns.log.20110723112145.txt

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] C:\\WiRNS\\wirns.debug.log has been backed up to C:\\WiRNS\\wirns.debug.log.20110724085214.txt

[7/24/2011 08:52:14] Deleted wirns.debug.log.20110720184357.txt

[7/24/2011 08:52:55] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:52:55] [PLUGIN] LoginLogout Skipping Login (nightly) for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:52:55] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for ntp-production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:55] [PLUGIN] AuthCtrl Processing Auth Categories for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:55] [PLUGIN] AuthCtrl using authcmds from: C:\\WiRNS\\authcmds for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:56] [PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:53:56] [PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from: C:\\WiRNS\\shellcmds for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:56] [PLUGIN] ZipcodeProvider: Added 2 lineups for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:53:57] Hijacking headend request for WiRNS lineup 1 from 192.168.1.50, because we serve it locally with 65 channels.

[7/24/2011 08:53:57] Hijacking headend request for WiRNS lineup 2 from 192.168.1.50, because we serve it locally with 185 channels.

[7/24/2011 08:53:59] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-24 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:59] Loaded 4596 shows for 185 channels in 0.6909936 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:54:01] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-25 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:02] Loaded 4858 shows for 185 channels in 0.7811232 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:54:04] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-27 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:04] Loaded 5061 shows for 185 channels in 0.7610944 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:54:06] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-31 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:07] Loaded 4952 shows for 185 channels in 0.75108 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:54:09] [PLUGIN] NoSoftwareUpdate initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:54:09] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-home) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:09] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-more) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:10] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-xzone) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:10] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-sitcom) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:10] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-scifi2) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:11] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-music) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:11] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-sports) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:11] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-family) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-movies) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-parentalcontrol) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-setup-gaea) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-customize) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-mainMenu) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (messages2) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (amgr-denali) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:14] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (messages) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:20] [PLUGIN] GetNextCall initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:54:20] [PLUGIN] GetNextCall Time: 01:53 for 12 min to 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:20] [PLUGIN] MyPhoneNumbers initialized (global) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:20] [PLUGIN] MyPhoneNumbers (global) returning configured phone number for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:54:21] [PLUGIN] LoginLogout Skipping Logout (nightly) for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:38] [DNS] Using file: C:\\WiRNS\\Plugins\\IVSProvider.hosts

[7/24/2011 08:54:38] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for rddns-production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:38] [PLUGIN] IVSProvider received an update request from ISN 00004-54831-86367(192.168.1.50), port 39000

[7/24/2011 08:54:58] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:58] [PLUGIN] LoginLogout Skipping Login (nightly) for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:54:58] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for ntp-production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:55:59] [PLUGIN] AuthCtrl Processing Auth Categories for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:55:59] [PLUGIN] AuthCtrl using authcmds from: C:\\WiRNS\\authcmds for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:55:59] [PLUGIN] GetShellCommands initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:55:59] [PLUGIN] GetShellCommands using shellcmds from: C:\\WiRNS\\shellcmds for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:55:59] [PLUGIN] ZipcodeProvider: Added 2 lineups for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:00] Hijacking headend request for WiRNS lineup 1 from 192.168.1.50, because we serve it locally with 65 channels.

[7/24/2011 08:56:01] Hijacking headend request for WiRNS lineup 2 from 192.168.1.50, because we serve it locally with 185 channels.

[7/24/2011 08:56:02] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-24 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:03] Loaded 4596 shows for 185 channels in 0.7711088 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:56:05] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-25 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:05] Loaded 4858 shows for 185 channels in 0.7610944 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:56:07] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-27 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:08] Loaded 5061 shows for 185 channels in 0.7110224 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:56:09] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-31 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:10] Loaded 4952 shows for 185 channels in 0.7210368 second(s).

[7/24/2011 08:56:12] [PLUGIN] NoSoftwareUpdate initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:56:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-home) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:12] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-more) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-xzone) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-sitcom) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:13] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-scifi2) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:14] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-music) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:14] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-sports) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:14] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-family) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:15] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (rz-movies) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:15] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-parentalcontrol) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:15] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-setup-gaea) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:15] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-customize) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:16] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (sys-mainMenu) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:16] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (messages2) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:16] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (amgr-denali) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:17] [PLUGIN] NoReplayZones initialized (messages) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:17] [PLUGIN] GetNextCall initialized.

[7/24/2011 08:56:17] [PLUGIN] GetNextCall Time: 01:53 for 12 min to 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:18] [PLUGIN] MyPhoneNumbers initialized (global) for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:18] [PLUGIN] MyPhoneNumbers (global) returning configured phone number for 192.168.1.50.

[7/24/2011 08:56:19] [PLUGIN] LoginLogout Skipping Logout (nightly) for 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:35] [DNS] Using file: C:\\WiRNS\\Plugins\\IVSProvider.hosts

[7/24/2011 08:56:35] [DNS] Returning 192.168.1.80 for rddns-production.replaytv.net to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:35] [PLUGIN] IVSProvider received an update request from ISN 00004-54831-86367(192.168.1.50), port 39000


----------



## Space

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mlloyd* 
Here's the log for 2 netconnects in a row (5080 to WiRNS 3):

...

[7/24/2011 08:53:59] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-24 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:53:59] Loaded 4596 shows for 185 channels in 0.6909936 second(s).

...

[7/24/2011 08:56:02] Serving guide data for: 2011-07-24 to 192.168.1.50

[7/24/2011 08:56:03] Loaded 4596 shows for 185 channels in 0.7711088 second(s).

...
Thanks!


I guess this means that it does load the shows every time. But I am still not sure. It looks like it took the same amount of time to process these requests, but perhaps it had uploaded those days earlier in the day?


This is interesting to me, because I know when I do a net connect to DNNA I see the % increase fairly slowly as it loads guide data. If I then do another net-connect on that same day, it just zips through that section and takes much less time, so I assume it does not download again.


But maybe that is controlled by the server and the Replay requests it every time, but it is the server that says "you already downloaded this today", or maybe the server says "nothing has changed since you last downloaded this".


So does WiRNS upload a day of guide data every time the Replay requests it, and doesn't bother checking if it was already uploaded?

Does the Replay request for a day's data include an "if modified after" date that the DNNA server observes but WirNS does not?


I guess a better test is to do a net-connect immediately after midnight UTC and then another one right after that. Then I could see if the first one takes longer than the second one. It is not clear from the log if it is actually serving the data to the Replay in the above log (although it says it is). If that first net-connect was not the first one of the (UTC based) day, then both of them may not have sent any data.


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20735701
> 
> 
> So does WiRNS upload a day of guide data every time the Replay requests it, and doesn't bother checking if it was already uploaded?



Guess you're going to have to ask for an update log from someone to figure this one out...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20735701
> 
> 
> Does the Replay request for a day's data include an "if modified after" date that the DNNA server observes but WirNS does not?



This information is available in the TWIKI...


Henry


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20736872
> 
> 
> Guess you're going to have to ask for an update log from someone to figure this one out...
> 
> 
> This information is available in the TWIKI...
> 
> 
> Henry



OK, I found it here , just in case anyone else cares...


So it looks like it only downloads stuff on a per-day/per-channel basis if that data has changed. I'm not sure how the WiRNS log would have told me that, although I don't think I saw the first net-connect of the day in the previosly posted log to be able to compare it to a subsequent net-connect.


So I am still wondering if SD data changes throughout the day or if it is just a daily snapshot of data downloaded from TMS.


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20732346
> 
> 
> My curiosity is piqued; what is satpro?



Not what; who.


See this post in the Showstopper Tests thread.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenL* /forum/post/20732284
> 
> 
> We may need to make an image of that available. So I guess no blaster support since no tuning? But that might be fixed with registry overwriting.



Well, the $64K question is what version of the software is it?


I found *satpro*'s original post documenting demo mode manual recording, but as you can see it's from late 2000, a few years earlier that he remembered.


That's very early in the 3.0 release, well before the final version. It also looks like *satpro* may have both SS and Replay 3xxx units, and it's not clear which he is talking about in that post. If it's a SS, it's almost certainly not 3.0, because from what I'm reading in the archive, Panasonic hadn't even agreed at that point to allow the 3.0 upgrade on its boxes, much less done any factory installations of it.


More generally, *was 3.0 ever factory installed?* Because if not, there's no reason to think it has any demo code in it, period.


Now if the demo mode _is_ in an early 3.0 build, and if my theory about the origin/reason for the problem is correct, then it's possible the early builds don't have that problem, and all one would need to do is put the thing into user mode and apply (or recreate?) the clock patch and go.


Failing that, tuning via blaster could possibly be enabled in a 3.0 demo mode with registry changes.


But if the demo was a pre-3.0 glorified beta of the manual record functionality introduced for production in 3.0, then even though the registry presumably held blaster info from day 1, it's possible that the user interface to take advantage of it wasn't yet there.


Finally, it looks to me like enabling cable tuning mode (as opposed to OTA) on the RF input may require a populated channel table rather than just registry tweaking, so enabling that in demo mode could be problematic either way.


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20736872
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20735701
> 
> 
> So does WiRNS upload a day of guide data every time the Replay requests it, and doesn't bother checking if it was already uploaded?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess you're going to have to ask for an update log from someone to figure this one out...
Click to expand...


Might be easier and more reliable to tweak the program data on the WiRNS box without changing the timestamp, and then see if a subsequent connection from the Replay picked up the change.


But more to the point, you couldn't just answer the question yes or no instead of typing out a snarky response?


Seriously?



> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20735701
> 
> 
> Does the Replay request for a day's data include an "if modified after" date that the DNNA server observes but WirNS does not?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This information is available in the TWIKI...
> 
> 
> Henry
Click to expand...


Really?


Cuz all I see in the TWIKI is stuff about DNNA c. 2003, nothing about WiRNS. And the WiRNS wiki seems to be primarily a user manual, not an internals guide, although I didn't check every page.


So am I missing something or was this answer not only snarky, but also just plain wrong?


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20740114
> 
> 
> So am I missing something or was this answer not only snarky, but also just plain wrong?



He posted where he found it in the TWIKI, so it obviously wasn't wrong...


Henry


----------



## joblo

I see nothing in that posted TWIKI reference about what WiRNS does with the date, which was also part of the question.


Why not just answer the question, yes or no? Does WiRNS ignore the date?


I was under the impression you wrote the code, so you should know. Is that wrong?


I mean, what does it matter, really, whether it does or not?


Why be such a tease about something so utterly trivial?


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20741162
> 
> 
> I see nothing in that posted TWIKI reference about what WiRNS does with the date, which was also part of the question.
> 
> 
> Why not just answer the question, yes or no? Does WiRNS ignore the date?
> 
> 
> I was under the impression you wrote the code, so you should know. Is that wrong?
> 
> 
> I mean, what does it matter, really, whether it does or not?
> 
> 
> Why be such a tease about something so utterly trivial?



When YOU are answering literally hundreds of posts a day, then YOU can decide how much time you want to spend on utterly trivial information...


Henry


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *satpro* /forum/post/20741207
> 
> 
> Joblo, have you tried an unguaranteed repeating manual to see if it executes?



Pretty sure I did try that and it did not execute, but I have guide data now, so it would take me a while to recreate the conditions to double-check.


I have also discovered that clearing the channel guide does NOT stop previously scheduled repeat recordings from executing, only those created after the guide is cleared, which is consistent with my theory.


I would still very much like to know what software release you have on that demo unit. Does 411-ZONES work in that mode to find out?


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20741214
> 
> 
> When YOU are answering literally hundreds of posts a day, then YOU can decide how much time you want to spend on utterly trivial information...



You didn't save any time, Henry. That was the point.


But enough of this. Have it your way if you like.......


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20741214
> 
> 
> When YOU are answering literally hundreds of posts a day, then YOU can decide how much time you want to spend on utterly trivial information...
> 
> 
> Henry



I don't think it is trivial, I was just trying to find out the best time of day to do a net connect.


I can figure it out next week when I plan to be all set up with SD, so no big deal.


My real question now is regarding SD data, so I'll see if I can find any answers on the SD forums...


----------



## hdonzis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20741251
> 
> 
> You didn't save any time, Henry. That was the point.
> 
> 
> But enough of this. Have it your way if you like.......



Thanks so much! I think I have it my way and quit posting here...


Henry


----------



## KenL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdonzis* /forum/post/20743231
> 
> 
> Thanks so much! I think I have it my way and quit posting here...
> 
> 
> Henry



Anytime.










I think we all know what happened here. The mega guru was hangin' and chilling, running up the post count. Once he hit the big 2K the thrill was gone.


BTW the *Member* and the *KenL* hit the 2K/5K milestones on the same day. Back at the ranch the ReMember was stuck padding and deleting in an unstable holding pattern, struggling to edge out *.5* .


----------



## g501




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *joblo* /forum/post/20741162
> 
> 
> I see nothing in that posted TWIKI reference about what WiRNS does with the date, which was also part of the question.
> 
> 
> Why not just answer the question, yes or no? Does WiRNS ignore the date?
> 
> 
> I was under the impression you wrote the code, so you should know. Is that wrong?
> 
> 
> I mean, what does it matter, really, whether it does or not?
> 
> 
> Why be such a tease about something so utterly trivial?



Why would people bother a busy guy who performing a critical unpaid job with minor questions? Just glancing at a question takes time and energy. This is a big problem for many developers of open source or freeware code, and I have seen a few just give up due to the hassle factor.


My suggestion is: don't bother Henry in any way, and don't ask him questions unless you think they are either critical to the community, or interesting to him.


Finally, note that just because you wrote source code for something, you don't remember every detail forever.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g501* /forum/post/20744621
> 
> 
> ...Finally, note that *just because you wrote source code for something, you remember every detail forever*.



Absolutely!










That's why some programmers don't even bother with comments or documentation...


----------



## fbreshears

I'll second (or third) that!



Frank


----------



## Lark888

Henry - Don't reply to this post. Just a thank you for the great technical info over the years and fantastic personal responses. You have helped me many times (often by answering the question that someone else posted). Looking forward to my post DNNA ReplayTV.


----------



## bravery




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Reden* /forum/post/20724117
> 
> 
> As long as you're not looking for it to be free, there's no reason to worry.. The LaHo (Last Hope ReplayTV Service) service should be up and running by then.
> 
> 
> Robert



I'm in for LaHo! My wife is mourning the loss of her Showstopper. I would gladly pay $7 - $13 per month to have the LaHo service updating our Showstopper!


----------



## TheRealAnubis

Ok, this is a distress call for anyone that has had any luck with freesco and a dial up modem. I have tried several computers, from win 95 boxes up to my newest box, and all have working modems, but freesco doesn't detect them. I can't believe that all of these boxes have some strange problem, so maybe I'm missing something.

I made the boot floppy, followed the directions for setting up everything, and when it gets to the modem detection it finds nothing.


I have also tried various versions of freesco with the same results.


Any info would be greatly appreciated since I need to get my replayTV going soon!!


----------



## Murphy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheRealAnubis* /forum/post/20745166
> 
> 
> Ok, this is a distress call for anyone that has had any luck with freesco and a dial up modem. I have tried several computers, from win 95 boxes up to my newest box, and all have working modems, but freesco doesn't detect them. I can't believe that all of these boxes have some strange problem, so maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> I made the boot floppy, followed the directions for setting up everything, and when it gets to the modem detection it finds nothing.
> 
> 
> I have also tried various versions of freesco with the same results.
> 
> 
> Any info would be greatly appreciated since I need to get my replayTV going soon!!



Your boxes probably have winmodems instead of real modems. A winmodem has very basic hardware with all of the smarts in the windows driver. You need a freestanding modem with an RS-232 serial port. There also were real modems on plug-in cards but they were ISA cards and are not going to connect to a modern computer.


----------



## Steevo55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Murphy* /forum/post/20748921
> 
> 
> Your boxes probably have winmodems instead of real modems. A winmodem has very basic hardware with all of the smarts in the windows driver. You need a freestanding modem with an RS-232 serial port. There also were real modems on plug-in cards but they were ISA cards and are not going to connect to a modern computer.



You need a "hardware modem". I've seen them in boxes saying "Intel hardware solution" and "works with Linux".


That's what you need. It will also generally have a big square module on it, with transformers.


----------



## gring40

OMG, today my SS Guide is populated through 8/5; how is this possible?


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20751608
> 
> 
> OMG, today my SS Guide is populated through 8/5; how is this possible?



My 2020 does that too.


Apparently, DNNA decided to send on all the guide data rather than cutting it off with 8/1.


It could be that it costs them nothing to allow a few more days of recording.


----------



## D_JA

I thought that they meant as of 8-1-11 you would no longer be able to connect to get the guide, wouldn't we still have 2 weeks out after jul 31st of data? Then nothing after that?







> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20751663
> 
> 
> My 2020 does that too.
> 
> 
> Apparently, DNNA decided to send on all the guide data rather than cutting it off with 8/1.
> 
> 
> It could be that it costs them nothing to allow a few more days of recording.


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D_JA* /forum/post/20752762
> 
> 
> I thought that they meant as of 8-1-11 you would no longer be able to connect to get the guide, wouldn't we still have 2 weeks out after jul 31st of data? Then nothing after that?



I think there will be no more guide data downloads from DNNA after this month. Hopefully you will be able to use the extra data you've downloaded (until 8/9 on the older units, 8/12 on the newer ones). If the nag screens aren't too bad and the clock doesn't drift too far you'll be able to continue (guide/select and automatic) recording until then.


----------



## D_JA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20752779
> 
> 
> I think there will be no more guide data downloads from DNNA after this month. Hopefully you will be able to use the extra data you've downloaded (until 8/9 on the older units, 8/12 on the newer ones). If the nag screens aren't too bad and the clock doesn't drift too far you'll be able to continue (guide/select and automatic) recording until then.



Replaytv changed their minds & will continue service as usual


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D_JA* /forum/post/20757179
> 
> 
> Replaytv changed their minds & will continue service as usual



For how long? Will they make the next end of service much more difficult to deal with?


----------



## speck9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20757188
> 
> 
> For how long? Will they make the next end of service much more difficult to deal with?



who knows, but at least us lifetime customers aren't stuck in limbo anymore.


That nag screen was seriously getting annoying.


----------



## RChobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speck9* /forum/post/20757195
> 
> 
> who knows, but at least us lifetime customers aren't stuck in limbo anymore.
> 
> 
> That nag screen was seriously getting annoying.



It is too bad they replaced one nag screen with another.


----------



## speck9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RChobby* /forum/post/20757205
> 
> 
> It is too bad they replaced one nag screen with another.



haha, but at least this new one isn't a countdown clock to some impending doom 


the closer we got to 7/31, the more irritating the old nag screen got


----------



## joblo

And, hey, it's only for 90 days.










Just twice as long as the old one...


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *speck9* /forum/post/20757221
> 
> 
> haha, but at least this new one isn't a countdown clock to some impending doom



No countdown, but that "impending doom" could be much worse.


----------



## seti1

I just went to the Replay website and came across this message.



> Quote:
> After the announced shutdown of the ReplayTV programming guide service, we have had many positive, enthusiastic comments about the ReplayTV DVR products and services. In light of this response, ReplayTV and its parent company Digital Networks North America, Inc. have decided to continue the electronic programming guide service pursuant to the terms of your service activation agreement. We thank you very much for all of your support and enthusiasm over the many years these products have been sold.
> 
> As we have said previously, the analog programming that the ReplayTV units are capable of recording is in fact likely to be converted to digital signals in the very near future at which point the ReplayTV units will no longer be able to record such programming. We encourage our users to consider digital video recorders that have this digital recording capability as well as additional technological advances which are not a part of the ReplayTV units (all of which were end of lifed by 2006). For monthly subscribers of the ReplayTV service, we are exploring options by which you may continue paying for and receiving such service going forward. We apologize in advance should there be any minor disruptions in the ReplayTV service while we implement the continuation of the programming guide. Thank you. ReplayTV



Is this something they just put up or was this from when they quit in 2006. If this is current, it may explain why the guide is going beyond 7/31 and they may have had a change of heart. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this. If you want to check out the link go to http://ReplayTV.com


----------



## Space




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *seti1* /forum/post/20757744
> 
> 
> I just went to the Replay website and came across this message.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this something they just put up or was this from when they quit in 2006. If this is current, it may explain why the guide is going beyond 7/31 and they may have had a change of heart. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this. If you want to check out the link go to http://ReplayTV.com



All of the posts immediately preceding yours in this thread were talking about this very subject, so my advise to you is to just look up







or here .


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Space* /forum/post/20757758
> 
> *All of the posts immediately preceding yours in this thread were talking about this very subject*...



You're so FRACKIN' polite! I'm going to bed!!!


----------



## DVRDVR

Well it is possible they are still owned by direct tv and wanted to migrate some users to their system with free dvrs and pay direct tv service and pay dvr fees.



Also they may have been monitoring the ways mentioned to get around the dial up or connect to server problem mentioned on the web pages.


A lot of this information could be used to modify their software to prevent these types of get arounds from being able to steal service or make the rtv units work without dialing up.


Notice it looks like they are going to un migrate the monthly service dvrs back to monthly rather than lifetime.


This may play hell with all the units being sold on ebay etc. that are supposed to be lifetime then suddenly they revert to monthly.


If this was planned in the first place the whole thing was likely in the software update sent when they were first migrated to lifetime.


They were likely made to revert back automatically after the 7/31 date.


So they gave away a couple months of free service, now they have or could have gleamed tons of useful information about circumventing their service connections.


They should be able to make it up with all the subscriptions they will now be going to charge for.


Also this has been a lot of publicity for them with all these people posting how they loved their replay tv units etc.


I am glad I did not try to sell my units online saying they are lifetime and then now they are supposed to revert.


Well I have one that can't dial up or connect due to bad modem and ethernet.

I will find out if it will work as a manual or timer record unit without connecting to

service.


Through some extended effort I was able to make it get the activation and time set with the 7/31 service message.


I noticed that it seemed my other one with good connection hardware may have stopped the 7/31 nag notice just before I had it connect yesterday and get the new message they are going to continue with service.


I only connect it to the net when my guide gets low because I have not installed a router to have my computer and the replay and tivo units connected all at once.


Yea I do have a tivo too I bought used with lifetime service for $15.00 or so at a second hand store where I also got my replays.


I only had bought the monthly replay service for a few months when they announced the shutdown.


I have also figured out a way to make the clock work longer on the replays and was able to set the time without connection in one unit by programming the clock chip directly.


It also should be possible to connect a removable clock with only 4 wires.


Well that's enough said for now..


----------



## jpinwv304

I am surprised that ReplayTV will continue and grateful they will. But, let's hope their comment has some time to it.


In parallel, I am grateful to members of this thread for their information and direction on how to make SS work when/if ReplayTV goes off.


Given that ReplayTV makes an excellent system they need to expand their marketing and make a new system to support digital, for an 8 year old ReplayTv is just as good as a brand new Tivo


Plus, with thousands of customers that are very happy with their product, then ReplayTV needs to offer a converter box that will allow the analog system to receive the digital signals.


I have my system converted to digital, but its through a CISCO system that costs $7.00/month.


----------



## speck9




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20758398
> 
> 
> Well it is possible they are still owned by direct tv and wanted to migrate some users to their system with free dvrs and pay direct tv service and pay dvr fees.



dnna is owned by D&M. Patents and the replay website were sold to directv. Not sure what else. It still sounds like DNNA is managing the replay service on its' own. Although i'm sure Directv has a hand in why the service is being restored since they obviously own the domain name.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20758398
> 
> 
> A lot of this information could be used to modify their software to prevent these types of get arounds from being able to steal service or make the rtv units work without dialing up.
> 
> 
> Notice it looks like they are going to un migrate the monthly service dvrs back to monthly rather than lifetime.



if they modify anything, it's going to be at the bare minimum that keeps the service viable. Not sure i see them going out of their way to do something. They may not even do anything at all just because of the costs to deploy and test a new update.


Also, it sounds like they are exploring options to restore monthly. The statement they made doesn't seem to commit fully and guaranteeing such a service.


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello again,


My spare replaytv unit that has not connected since early July seems to have stopped the nag notices except when exiting the zones menu it gets a blank page with activation at the top and remind me later and connect now at the bottom.

Also the guide is blank with channels listed with no show titles and it goes to the channel when select is pressed. Nothing happens when record is pressed while in blank guide. If record is pressed while watching live video it goes to record options menu.

Once there you need to advance the start time 2 minutes to get it to start recording or it leaves the message no video detected and rec time less than 1 minute.

You should also set the stop time to the appropriate time for the show duration or it may only record about 30 minutes.


This makes the manual record kind of crappy since you have to do more than just press

record and you have to wait a little bit for it to start the countdown to record and record after several seconds, thus missing part of the show if you did not press record

and such soon enough before it started.


The timer record seems to work ok though.


Lets see if it lasts now or if it ends up with a need to connect.


My rtv I have hooked to a dtv box via AV cables connected yesterday and now has the

resume nag screen. I wonder how long that will stay there?


They could have continued the guide to prevent law suits and or bad publicity.


Or they may be trying to sell out to someone that may produce new boxes and be exploring what hardware and software changes need to be made.


You know any new replaytv boxes if made will not have commercial advance or copy to PC functions the same due to the sure to happen law suits from content provides TV, cable, and movie copyright owners as in the cases which forced the bankruptcy of the earlier replaytv companies.


They also could be just selling the technology but the hardware is somewhat obsolete

for pay services due to the easy changing of serial numbers an the ability to use wirns

type systems to replace the guide etc.


I am curious to what they are going to do about the monthly service, If they suspend it will the boxes continue to work as manual or timer record without guide?


----------



## bri4jenn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20763185
> 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> 
> but the hardware is somewhat obsolete for pay services due to the easy changing of serial numbers



I'm curious about what your statement means. Can you provide more details.


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20763185
> 
> 
> They also could be just selling the technology but the hardware is somewhat obsolete
> 
> for pay services due to the easy changing of serial numbers an the ability to use wirns
> 
> type systems to replace the guide etc.
> 
> 
> I am curious to what they are going to do about the monthly service, If they suspend it will the boxes continue to work as manual or timer record without guide?



They've already sold the hardware. Anyone who's been paying monthly since DNNA stopped selling the units (when was that, late 2006?), has already paid DNNA back the *discount* they received on the box. Remember, the box was discounted. They had to lock-down service when you had an option of paying up front for 'lifetime' or paying in perpetuity per month.


The need to lock down service no longer exists. They've already said that the end-of-life of these boxes has come and gone.


Now, one could say that they will need to lock down service again simply because one could spoof the serial number of a lifetime unit. I don't think it's worth the cost anymore to do this.


DNNA will be able to charge a monthly fee - maybe reduced from the $12.95 / $6.95 per month), for units THEY have in their database that are NOT lifetime if the owners of those units want their clocks set and guide data served by DNNA.


Now, you as the end user now have other options, since the keys are in the public and WiRNS 3.0 is on the street. If you have monthly units, you can pay $20 to SD to do it yourself, or you can pay DNNA to do it for you.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20774900
> 
> 
> ...Now, one could say that they will need to lock down service again simply because *one could spoof the serial number of a lifetime unit*...



Enable CA/IVS on a 55xx, I saw.

.
Activate 'Monthlys', I saw.

.
Spoof the Serial Number of a Lifetime Unit, I missed.

- Where was that discussed?

- Recently?


----------



## dstoffa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* /forum/post/20775037
> 
> Spoof the Serial Number of a Lifetime Unit, I missed.
> 
> - Where was that discussed?
> 
> - Recently?



It was not discussed, per se. I brought it up as the only reason that DNNA would consider ordering a software update. Since the encryption keys were released, and DNNA has not come forward with a plan to "take them back", I don't think this is a violation of the TOS of this board.


The serial number is on the EPROM of the unit. Let us say a person had one lifetime RTV, and several that were not lifetimed by DNNA. They don't want to pay for monthly service, nor do they want to pay for SD and set up a WiRNS machine. In theory, they could 'clone' the EPROM from the LT unit and put those clones in their non-lifetimed units in order to continue having the clocks on those units set by DNNA and have guide data fed to those units by DNNA.


I have no idea if the EPROMs themselves are encrypted. I really don't care anymore. And if the EPROMs aren't socketed, this becomes a PITA.


If someone is actually willing to spend the time and money to clone the EPROMs for LT units to avoid having to pay $20 / yr and run a PC for WiRNS, then I don't think they've taken an Economics course. I don't think its worth it anymore.


If DNNA considers spoofed LT boxes a threat to their bottom line, then I can see them pushing out a new lock-down. In the end, I don't think it matters; the ends will not justify the means for them.


DNNA will be able to set up their servers, (if they choose to), to:

1. Set the clock and provide guide data for units that THEY LIFETIMED.


2. Charge a fee to set the clock and provide data for units that THEY never LIFETIMED.


I don't see a reason for them (DNNA) to spend the money to develop a software update to prevent people from spoofing a LT unit to get free guide data. Again, the only reason for the lockdown was so they could reduce the up-front cost of a box, and recoup on the back end. There is no longer an up-front cost to recoup. They could simply charge non-Lifetime owners a fee for simply providing the same service that WiRNS 3.0 / SD does for those owners who do not wish to take on the burden themselves.


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## joblo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20775109
> 
> 
> I don't see a reason for them (DNNA) to spend the money to develop a software update to prevent people from spoofing a LT unit to get free guide data.



Agree.


I'm not sure it's even worth maintaining a billing department to support monthly subs at this point, much less the effort to lock them out.


----------



## ClearToLand




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dstoffa* /forum/post/20775109
> 
> *It was not discussed, per se*. I brought it up as the only reason that DNNA would consider ordering a software update...
> 
> 
> ...The serial number is on the EPROM of the unit. *Let us say a person had one lifetime RTV, and several that were not lifetimed by DNNA. They don't want to pay for monthly service, nor do they want to pay for SD and set up a WiRNS machine. In theory, they could 'clone' the EPROM from the LT unit and put those clones in their non-lifetimed units in order to continue having the clocks on those units set by DNNA and have guide data fed to those units by DNNA.*
> 
> 
> I have no idea if the EPROMs themselves are encrypted. I really don't care anymore. And if the EPROMs aren't socketed, this becomes a PITA...



Ah, you were just HYPOTHESIZING!









*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) [And, the number of folks in our *ever-dwindling* community capable of successfully performing that feat...





















]
And, continuing to think out loud, why wouldn't different MACs with the same Serial Number get rejected?








*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) [Since, identical MACs with different Serial Numbers *DO* get rejected during IVS...]
PERSONALLY, I'm going to continue to be *VERY* THANKFUL for all the unexpected '_Gifts_' that were bestowed upon me over the past ~6 weeks.


----------



## icecow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lnoland* /forum/post/20585520
> 
> 
> I have been running MythTV for a couple years now ...
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> ...and greater potential, I'm sure that the MythTV community would love to have you onboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Les



Thanks for the write up. I've been wondering where MythTV was in development (for like the last 2 years). MythTV has seemed to be my fate, but garsh, I am still going to hold out for something with less grunt work. Still in limbo here.


----------



## dstoffa

Quote:

Originally Posted by *ClearToLand* 
And, continuing to think out loud, why wouldn't different MACs with the same Serial Number get rejected?








*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) [Since, identical MACs with different Serial Numbers *DO* get rejected during IVS...]


I could care less about IVS. You really only need one machine that has matching numbers for IVS. Your DVR's primary function should be to record shows. I don't think that DNNA activation and DNNA guide data cares about non-matching numbers... Actually, there would be no way that one of my repaired machines (I moved an EPROM after a lightning strike) would work if an EPROM was matched to a MAC...
PERSONALLY, I'm going to continue to be *VERY* THANKFUL for all the unexpected '_Gifts_' that were bestowed upon me over the past ~6 weeks.








Me too!


I now have six RTVs to use as I wish... Too bad I don't have as many sources to record at this time. I am sure that will change soon, though...


Cheers!

-Doug


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello,

I am a little slow coming back but the hardware is somewhat obsolete due to the fact it

is not all that hard to clone the serial number or rom chip except it is a 3 volt rather than a 5 volt one, and some are soldered in. I said the hardware was obsolete because making new units was mentioned.

Also the unit is a non HD unit which I like because it allows about 5 or more times more shows to be recorded on a hard drive than HD unit would.

The original design for even the latest units was made how many years ago?

There has been newer chips with more semiconductor density and encryption needed for new designs so you can't copy movies so easy to your PC. (Due to potential law suits) They also need the SATA interface to use the new hard drives made now.

Some of these upgrades are needed to make the units less expensive than they would be using old hardware some of which may not be currently in production.

The clock can be set without service on a unit by writing direct to the clock chip

,but there needs to be a better battery backup to keep it working without line power if unplugged or power outage. The .5 farad caps go bad and don't last so long.



I said something about using the technology to produce new units. This does not mean hardware itself the hardware rights are likely owned by the various component manufacturers. I was talking about the total circuit design and software interface what ever part of they have patented or registered copyright.


They meaning who ever owns the above mentioned technology.

Whether it be Direct TV or DNNA or somebody else.


If one owns one part and the other owns the other one could compensate the service providers to do what ever they did for some kind of test to find out how it goes over, and the user public reaction.


The DNNA people must not be making much money on the service any more so outside

compensation might come in useful.


"PERSONALLY, I'm going to continue to be *VERY* THANKFUL for all the unexpected 'Gifts' that were bestowed upon me over the past ~6 weeks."

What were these gifts if you can say?


Thank You


----------



## pbanas

Hey there and here's a toast to continuing use of our Replays! I've found this an amazing story as we've wondered if we were suddenly going to have 3 wired bricks ready for recycling on August 1. I was shocked last night when I turned mine on "just to see" and read the welcome message.


However, and there's always a however, now MReplay can't read the boxes because they are "unconfigured." Is this related to the change? Has anyone else seen this? DVArchive can't access them either.


Thanks!


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello there,

Now people are selling replaytv boxes saying they are lifetime and some are not.

They are showing the info screen with it showing "activated".

However if it says only "activated" it may not be lifetime as monthly units are

showing the same thing even if they have not paid for the subscription at this time.

Some units also say (one time fee paid) these are likely lifetime in this case.

Why some lifetime units say only "activated" I do not know but you must contact replaytv some way to verify if a unit only showing "activated" is or not lifetime activated to receive guide at least while it is still available.

People need to provide the full activation key number to verify the unit or allow refund and shipping for return if it is not as they claim a lifetime unit.

Thank you


----------



## adam1991

"Activated" means no need to talk to the mothership to remain alive.


Remember, even "lifetime" units turned to bricks if they couldn't talk to the mothership every now and then.


----------



## Jimmi_Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icecow* /forum/post/20776594
> 
> 
> Thanks for the write up. I've been wondering where MythTV was in development (for like the last 2 years). MythTV has seemed to be my fate, but garsh, I am still going to hold out for something with less grunt work. Still in limbo here.



The ReplayTV shut down scare (RSDS) of 2011







caused me to go back to looking at Mythtv after having been curious about it for years.


I am quite happy that I went that route. I loved my ReplayTVs, and would have most likely gone on using them and paying the monthly fees if it weren't for the RSDS.


The added functionality and scalibility of the Mythtv system is just too hard to move back from.


It took me a couple of weeks of monkeying around and fiddling to get it working the way I wanted. Some of that time was spent waiting for e-bay purchased hardware to arrive. I have been using Ubuntu as a desktop at home for years. I am not sure how long it would have taken me if I had no Linux experience.


If you have any questions about it or need any help let me know at ryancase at that gmailthingy. I feel like I should give back to the Mythtv community after the amount of help I received getting mine running.


Ryan


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adam1991* /forum/post/20835631
> 
> 
> "Activated" means no need to talk to the mothership to remain alive.
> 
> 
> Remember, even "lifetime" units turned to bricks if they couldn't talk to the mothership every now and then.



Activation status is irrelevant when you have WiRNS 3. It looks like most people selling on eBay don't know that.


----------



## dryduck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20835570
> 
> 
> Hello there,
> 
> 
> They are showing the info screen with it showing "activated".
> 
> However if it says only "activated" it may not be lifetime as monthly units are
> 
> showing the same thing even if they have not paid for the subscription at this time.



Right - when DNNA suspended billing, they changed the activation string to just "Activated" for both lifetime and monthly units, where lifetime ones USED to say "Activated (one-time fee paid)"... I'm not sure what the monthly ones used to say.



> Quote:
> Some units also say (one time fee paid) these are likely lifetime in this case.
> 
> Why some lifetime units say only "activated" I do not know but you must contact replaytv some way to verify if a unit only showing "activated" is or not lifetime activated to receive guide at least while it is still available.



Yeah, they may have some old screenshots that still show the old activation string. But, it is also possible to set that string to anything you want now -- mine says "Activated (WiRNS)" -- so even that is no guarantee that it is a "lifetime" unit.


Still, unless you are going to pay a premium for "lifetime", it doesn't matter much, since there are now multiple methods for self-authorization anyway -- even if you are going to keep connecting to the mothership.


----------



## sslund




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlloyd* /forum/post/20837015
> 
> 
> Activation status is irrelevant when you have WiRNS 3. It looks like most people selling on eBay don't know that.



Shhhh . . . and let's not tell them


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello,

I tried to hook up wirns and couldn't quite get it right.

I really wasn't sure what I was going to have it do anyway.

I guess I really wanted to use the DVarchive.

Eventually they may stop giving guide service to the monthly units without pay.

It sounds like they should be continuing guide service at least for a while for the lifetime units.

So since they can say the same on lifetime and monthly units the screenshots alone

can not tell the true status.

You have to contact replaytv in some way to confirm the status as long as they are

giving out correct info hopefully.

I may be buying at least one more unit soon and hopefully it will be a lifetime unit.

I think the one I just bought is not though.

Oh Well I have bought about 10 tivo units and only one is a lifetime unit but Most were less than $25.00 each. Lots of spare parts!

I need to finish configuring to setup a larger drive for the tivo.

The RTVpatch works so nice for the replay units. I can do it all over usb/ide adaptors.

I wonder if RTVpatch would work on a tivo drive?

Right now I only have so much time and room to mess with these things to get too complicated in configuration.

Thanks


----------



## mlloyd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20840478
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I tried to hook up wirns and couldn't quite get it right.
> 
> I really wasn't sure what I was going to have it do anyway.
> 
> I guess I really wanted to use the DVarchive.
> 
> Eventually they may stop giving guide service to the monthly units without pay.
> 
> It sounds like they should be continuing guide service at least for a while for the lifetime units.
> 
> So since they can say the same on lifetime and monthly units the screenshots alone
> 
> can not tell the true status.
> 
> You have to contact replaytv in some way to confirm the status as long as they are
> 
> giving out correct info hopefully.
> 
> I may be buying at least one more unit soon and hopefully it will be a lifetime unit.
> 
> I think the one I just bought is not though.
> 
> Oh Well I have bought about 10 tivo units and only one is a lifetime unit but Most were less than $25.00 each. Lots of spare parts!
> 
> I need to finish configuring to setup a larger drive for the tivo.
> 
> The RTVpatch works so nice for the replay units. I can do it all over usb/ide adaptors.
> 
> I wonder if RTVpatch would work on a tivo drive?
> 
> Right now I only have so much time and room to mess with these things to get too complicated in configuration.
> 
> Thanks



Since the mid-June activation changes, there is no such thing as a "monthly" unit. It's just their database that's different.


Aa to RTVPatch and the USB adapters, it can save a lot of work. You can even use the Replay as a power supply for the drive during re-imaging.


----------



## DVRDVR

Hi again,

Yea I know they will all work right now but they stated they are intending to eventually

charge for monthly units again.

I bought one from a guy that said it was a lifetime unit and it seems to be a moonthly unit and will likely end up being a monthly charged unit again once that system is implemented again instead of this free activation going on right now.

Then I just bought another one I called them to verify before buying it.

So I guess I will try to network a lifetime with guide service to a July free activation

with no guide and timer record and hope it all works ok.

Maybe I might try to get wirns to do some of the guide stuff someday when I have more time.

I did figure out a way to keep the clock running when unplugged so I can even just keep it in storage when not needed.

Thanks


----------



## RChobby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DVRDVR* /forum/post/20844391
> 
> 
> I did figure out a way to keep the clock running when unplugged so I can even just keep it in storage when not needed



How did you do that?


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello,

Yea I just noticed that those .5 farad caps don't last all that long even shorter time when they are old and worn out etc.

I just put a nicad battery in there with a charge resistor and isolation diode.

It will eventually go dead too though so if you do not want to plug it in once in a while

I guess you could put a connector for a wall wart and another resistor.

It is harder to set the clock without service but with 2 more wires you can connect

to an activated unit while connecting and set both clocks at once.

It sounds a little risky but worked on a unit I had without a phone or network connection. This should be done only while the slave unit is unplugged from the wall and

the power for the clock coming from the other unit getting the time from the connection. There was no other way to set the clock without network connect unless you could make some kind of software mod to allow to set with remote.

Later.


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello again,

Above I said "It is harder to set the clock without service but with 2 more wires you can connect to an activated unit while connecting and set both clocks at once."

This should have said a unit with phone or internet working not needed to be activated.

The clock will set on either.

Also I tried to connect to a replay tv box with DVarchive and the box was recieving data but not sending back. Does the computer need to be connected to the internet

or have Wirns running and configured properly to work with DVarchive?


Thanks


----------



## burg650

I know this might not be the right place to post this, if it can not be answered here hopefully I can be pointed in the right direction for answers.


I have two Reply 5XXX units both are in the same place each time I want to use one I have to cover the other as the remote controls both at the same time. Is there a way to make them work on different remote so each one will have a dedicated remote.


Thanks


----------



## gring40

Noticed that my SS hasn't connected to the RTV dial-up service for several days, and won't do it when forced. I can hear the server's modem (with a phone) but the SS says it either didn't get an answer or tries to connect but then times out. Now my Guide runs only thru Thurs.


The other odd thing is if I go to try a different telephone number, the SS first tells me that my provider has changed and makes me configure the SS all over again, inputs, cable box & IR code, & only then the telephone number (all correctly retained in memory, nonetheless).


Tried a reboot, checked the phone lines, and neither local number works. Is it them or me? Is there a modem test I can do?

Anyone else getting this?


----------



## catswine

I just read a post about someone's SS not downloading the program guide.


I have a Replay TV (don't know what an SS is?) and it's got the same problem - hasn't downloaded since Sept. 1. I have tried manually also, no results. Same message tells me that there was a problem and would try again later.


I will call Replay TV tomorrow (Tuesday) but wondered if anyone has an answer?


Normally, if the ReplayTV can't download the guide, it will send a message that says there was a problem. The last time I got a message was on Sept. 1st.


Anybody have any information? Sounds almost like they are killing off the guide even though we get that message onscreen that says they are continuing the service. Thanks to anyone who helps. I'm new to this site so I apologize if I'm not doing things right!


----------



## catswine

I've had the same problem. I just block the one that I am not using. It's a pain, but I can't find a way to make the remotes work separately.


----------



## Sonyad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *catswine* /forum/post/20909212
> 
> 
> I just read a post about someone's SS not downloading the program guide.
> 
> 
> I have a Replay TV (don't know what an SS is?) and it's got the same problem - hasn't downloaded since Sept. 1. I have tried manually also, no results. Same message tells me that there was a problem and would try again later.
> 
> 
> I will call Replay TV tomorrow (Tuesday) but wondered if anyone has an answer?
> 
> 
> Normally, if the ReplayTV can't download the guide, it will send a message that says there was a problem. The last time I got a message was on Sept. 1st.
> 
> 
> Anybody have any information? Sounds almost like they are killing off the guide even though we get that message onscreen that says they are continuing the service. Thanks to anyone who helps. I'm new to this site so I apologize if I'm not doing things right!



I updated the guide on a monthly unit this weekend with no problem.


----------



## cajon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gring40* /forum/post/20908744
> 
> 
> Noticed that my SS hasn't connected to the RTV dial-up service for several days, and won't do it when forced. I can hear the server's modem (with a phone) but the SS says it either didn't get an answer or tries to connect but then times out. Now my Guide runs only thru Thurs.
> 
> 
> The other odd thing is if I go to try a different telephone number, the SS first tells me that my provider has changed and makes me configure the SS all over again, inputs, cable box & IR code, & only then the telephone number (all correctly retained in memory, nonetheless).
> 
> 
> Tried a reboot, checked the phone lines, and neither local number works. Is it them or me? Is there a modem test I can do?
> 
> Anyone else getting this?



This may help worked for me!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1357940


----------



## gring40




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cajon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> This may help worked for me!
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1357940



That did the trick, thanks. Also feel like an idiot to learn that B-band calls are also local.


There must be a way to pickup new RTV threads as they start, since I missed that one completely.


----------



## catswine

Changed the number that the Replay TV dials. Moved it from "Alternate" (local call) to "Primary" (toll charge)


But it worked! It downloaded the program guide instantly - just like normal - THANK YOU everyone!


----------



## DVRDVR

Hello,

Maybe if you can find some fiberoptic cable you can make a little boxlike thing open in one end to shine the remote and the fiberoptic cable in the other end.

Then put the other end of the cable in front of one of the replaytv boxes sealed off so as not to let in signals from the remote when pointed at the other replaytv unit.

You could do similar with remote extender system etc.

Or even wire a IR led onto the remote for one unit and connect it in front of the receiver like above.

A different way would be to use a configuration of mirrors to allow you to point the remote in a different direction to activate one of the receivers.


----------

