# Add Cooling Fan to A/V Cabinet



## Shopping-TVs

Does anyone know how to add a cooling fan to an A/V Cabinet? I've found many fans at places like Fry's or Radioshack, but I am not sure how to wire the unit to an AC plug? I'm not too savy when it comes to electrical. Any advice appreciated!


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## DMF

If you don't know enough electrical to add a fan to a cabinet (really one of the simplest things you can do), then stay the hell away from line voltage (110 VAC) altogether. Use a PC fan that takes 12 VDC. A small wall wart will produce enough juice to turn the fan. You would cut the plug end off the wall wart cord and connect the wires to the two prongs on the fan. Find someone that knows how to solder to do this.


*Any* fan you put in an A/V cabinet has the potential to be distractingly noisy. Line voltage fans especially, but even common PC fans. One way to deal with that is to buy a "quiet" fan. Another is to use a wall wart that puts out less voltage, like 7 VDC.


If my reply doesn't make sense to you, then you really don't want to mess with this at all. Get soneone to do it for you.


(And don't forget that you'll need a hole in the cabinet to let out the hot air, and one to let in the cool.)


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## Shopping-TVs

DMF: Thanks for the info. Sounds like the wall wart / DC Fan option will meet my needs. I'll be heading off to Radio Shack or Fry's to find some parts.


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## Johnla

For a 2U rack panel with 3 80mm DC fans, each with it's own on/off switch, and it also comes with the 12v power supply. For a reasonable $70, or $140 with Vantech thermal fans. Look here http://www.triktags.com/html/vantech...nt_panels.html 


Here is a pic of it with the Vantec thermal fans.


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## Shopping-TVs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For a 2U rack panel with 3 80mm DC fans, each with it's own on/off switch, and it also comes with the 12v power supply. For a reasonable $60, look here http://www.triktags.com/html/panels.html#2rufan
> 
> 
> Here is a pic of it.
> 
> Yes I know it has blue LED's in the fans, but they also sell versions with no LED's and red LED's also.



Has anyone ever ordered from triktags? I am considering this fan kit. Thanks.


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## Johnla

I have, I got it in about 3 days after I ordered it. Just remember this was designed primarily as a rack mount product. So it may need to be adapted to fit in other types of applications.


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## Shopping-TVs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have, I got it in about 3 days after I ordered it. Just remember this was designed primarily as a rack mount product. So it may need to be adapted to fit in other types of applications.




Can you post overall dimensions? I think this will fit in one of the A/V Cabinet bays, but want to make sure before I order. Also, how's the noise from the fans?


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## Johnla

I have it mounted in the back of a wood cabinet, so I can't actually measure it anymore. But it's just a standard 2U rack mount panel with 3 80mm fans added to it. Standard rack mount spacing is 19" wide, and the 2U size means it should/will be 3 1/2" tall.

As for the noise, my guess is that at about 5 feet away and out in the open, that it's probably about 25-35db. They claim it's 28.5db, but they don't say at what distance either. And depending upon how and where it's actually mounted in a cabinet or a rack, then it can probably be even a bit less noise than that, because putting it in something like the back of a cabinet it will muffle it some. Also if you turn 1 or 2 of them off, then the noise will go down even more. But it is after all, 3 80mm computer type fans, so it will never be totally silent.


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## Chrisroman

 http://www.activethermal.com/default.htm


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## Shopping-TVs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chrisroman* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.activethermal.com/default.htm



Thanks for the link. I'll contact them tomorrow for pricing info.


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## rgbyhkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shopping-TVs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link. I'll contact them tomorrow for pricing info.



I found pricing listed by a dealer online. See this link. Seems pretty pricey. Are these the kind of prices you got from them?


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## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rgbyhkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seems pretty pricey.



Pretty pricey is putting it mildly.....

Even if you were to replace all 3 fans in the version from Triktags, for about a additional $30. With thermal "silent" type fans, like the Vantec ThermoFlow temp sensing, or some other temp sensing variable speed fans. You would still be under $100 total for almost the same thing that Active Thermal is asking very close to $300 for.


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## mjc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pretty pricey is putting it mildly.....
> 
> Even if you were to replace all 3 fans in the version from Triktags, for about a additional $30. With thermal "silent" type fans, like the Vantec ThermoFlow temp sensing, or some other temp sensing variable speed fans. You would still be under $100 total for almost the same thing that Active Thermal is asking very close to $300 for.




Active Thermal is expensive. The 2 kit is nearly $300.00 with shipping for two fans with variable speed. I went to http://www.siliconacoustics.com/fans.html and ordered two Super Quiet Nexxus fans, a thermal regulator, and a splitter.


1 NoiseMagic NMT-3 15.00, 2 Nexus 120 mm Real Silent Case Fan (black and white)33.90, 1 3-Pin Y Splitter 3.00 Subtotal: 51.90. second day UPS added about $15.00.


Now, I need a 12 volt wall wart from Radio shack that can .60amps or 3.6watts and it's done. For a whole lot less moola. Radio Shack sells a 3v to 12v 1000mA AC/DC converter for 17.99.


For less than $100.00, I'll have something very similar. However, I'll know where to get parts if anything goes wrong.


There might be a little more risk in doing it myself, but since ATM requires that I pull out a hole saw to my entertainment center's cabinet, I'm already taking risks.


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## Brian81




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chrisroman* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.activethermal.com/default.htm




I've seen these advertised in the Smarthome catalog. I need to check into one of these.. Very expensive stuff, then again prices seem to be straight MSRP with them. Good service, though.


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## richkorn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Active Thermal is expensive. The 2 kit is nearly $300.00 with shipping for two fans with variable speed. I went to http://www.siliconacoustics.com/fans.html and ordered two Super Quiet Nexxus fans, a thermal regulator, and a splitter.
> 
> 
> 1 NoiseMagic NMT-3 15.00, 2 Nexus 120 mm Real Silent Case Fan (black and white)33.90, 1 3-Pin Y Splitter 3.00 Subtotal: 51.90. second day UPS added about $15.00.
> 
> 
> Now, I need a 12 volt wall wart from Radio shack that can .60amps or 3.6watts and it's done. For a whole lot less moola. Radio Shack sells a 3v to 12v 1000mA AC/DC converter for 17.99.
> 
> 
> For less than $100.00, I'll have something very similar. However, I'll know where to get parts if anything goes wrong.
> 
> 
> There might be a little more risk in doing it myself, but since ATM requires that I pull out a hole saw to my entertainment center's cabinet, I'm already taking risks.




I'd like to follow your lead on this cooling system. If I have a cabinet with 5 fans how many 3 Pin Y Splitter, and NoiseMagic NMT-3 would I need? I assume these shut the fan down completely when not needed? Also, what is the 12 volt wall wart from Radio shack that can .60amps or 3.6watts for?

Thanks for saving me a whole lot of money!


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## mk6410

A friend recently bought a very quiet fan from a site called hometheatercooling . He said they were quite helpful. Wish I had come across it before I scrounged up my solution.


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## bump909

50 dollars for a 120mm computer fan with an ac cord?


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## dpugh

Hmmm...


Two PC power supply fans. Free


One 12v 300mA power supply with the end cut off Free


Tiny bit of solder and shrink tubing Free!


Nice cool components with barely a whisper from the fans Priceless.


Seriously. that's exactly what I did. The fans sit directly on top of my gear. Near the back of each piece. They cannot be seen unless you look really hard.


I tried line voltage fans. The whine was intolerable.


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## supraman215

It seems like that Tirktags solution is REALLY well priced, and perfect if you have a rackmounted system.


I would also imagine that line voltage fans could cause some level of interference through the powerstrip, or circuit you plug it into so if it's the same one as your equiptment that could cause some quality issues.


I'm going to do a home-grown system. All from Radio Shack just because it's easy and since it's my frist time it'll be kind of trial and error so I might have to return some stuff. Here's my parts list that I'm thinking about:


120mm Thermaltake fan - qty 2

Thermaltake noise killer kit (I'm sure some rubber washers from HD would also do the trick)

12vdc 1000ma wall wart

Project case (for all wiring and Pot)

potentiometer


I'm hoping I can use a potentiometer as a speed control for the fans. I'm not sure if this will work or not, and also not sure what kind of pot I'll need. With my ability to control the fan speed I should be able to keep them quiet. I'd also like to pick up a cheap thermometer to keep track of the temp in there as various fan speeds.


Jeff


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## cotton168

I purchased the YampaNet A/V Cooling system and it has been pretty good. Four fans for $100. Go to www.yampanet.com . Good luck!!


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## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraman215* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems like that Tirktags solution is REALLY well priced, and perfect if you have a rackmounted system.




You don't need to have a rackmount system to use it, I just made a 2U sized cutout in the back of my cabinet and screwed it right into the wood.


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## supraman215

I picked up the parts. Wasn't sure what to use to control the speed of the fan so I picked up a reostat. It does work to control the speed but it does get a little warm and it doesn't make it super slow. They only had one fan at RS so they are going to send me the other one.


The fan seems kind of loud. I was hoping it would be a little quieter, it's rated at 21 db. I might try a Silenx ixtrima pro fan, they are 2.5x the price but only 11 db.


Jeff


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## CJO

The silenx fans are nice, but not 11 db. They inflate their ratings. Try a decent panaflo or similar for the same results but at a cheaper price.


CJ


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CJO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The silenx fans are nice, but not 11 db. They inflate their ratings. Try a decent panaflo or similar for the same results but at a cheaper price.
> 
> 
> CJ



I actually replaced all the Panaflo's in my PC and A/V cabinet (all 80mm) with Arctic Silencer Fan 8's (AF8). I must say that the AF8 moves more air and is even more silent.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186006


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## kpblade




Grimdeath said:


> I actually replaced all the Panaflo's in my PC and A/V cabinet (all 80mm) with Arctic Silencer Fan 8's (AF8). I must say that the AF8 moves more air and is even more silent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The specs call out a fixed 2000 rpm. Could these still be used with a controller that varies the speed like the Yampanet system noted above, or do you actually need a fan that has a stated variable rpm output. I'm kind of ignorant with elctronic components. Thanks


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## Grimdeath




kpblade said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually replaced all the Panaflo's in my PC and A/V cabinet (all 80mm) with Arctic Silencer Fan 8's (AF8). I must say that the AF8 moves more air and is even more silent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The specs call out a fixed 2000 rpm. Could these still be used with a controller that varies the speed like the Yampanet system noted above, or do you actually need a fan that has a stated variable rpm output. I'm kind of ignorant with elctronic components. Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they can be used; any DC brushless fan can be used in a variable speed application. The AF8 can only be mounted as an exhaust fan, however.
Click to expand...


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## supraman215




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually replaced all the Panaflo's in my PC and A/V cabinet (all 80mm) with Arctic Silencer Fan 8's (AF8). I must say that the AF8 moves more air and is even more silent.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186006



Ordered up. Even though it's so much smaller I hope it's quite.


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraman215* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ordered up. Even though it's so much smaller I hope it's quite.



They do make a 92mm and 120mm version also!


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## kpblade




Grimdeath said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpblade* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they can be used; any DC brushless fan can be used in a variable speed application. The AF8 can only be mounted as an exhaust fan, however.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. My plan is to mount them on the back panels of my Salamander unit. I assume I have to drill the flow-through holes on the back panel, and mount the fans on the outside of them, so as to draw the air out of the cabinet. I'm hoping the perforated steel doors in front would be adequate for the inflow.
Click to expand...


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## Grimdeath




kpblade said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. My plan is to mount them on the back panels of my Salamander unit. I assume I have to drill the flow-through holes on the back panel, and mount the fans on the outside of them, so as to draw the air out of the cabinet. I'm hoping the perforated steel doors in front would be adequate for the inflow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I went with 80mm fans because it's hard to find a whole saw bigger than 80mm. I mounted the fan inside the cabinet blowing out; nothing is visible on the outside.
Click to expand...


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## kpblade




Grimdeath said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpblade* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I went with 80mm fans because it's hard to find a whole saw bigger than 80mm. I mounted the fan inside the cabinet blowing out; nothing is visible on the outside.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perfect, thanks for the info.
Click to expand...


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## mak99

Interesting idea! I might have to add a fan to my Synergy rack. My challenge is that my rack has the extended rears, so cutting the hole will be a bit more work...


Thanks to everyone for the links to all the different fans mfrs!


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## supraman215

Just finished my project, I should have taken pics but I didn't. Fortunately I had a holesaw that was exactly 80mm. Used the AC8 fans they are super quiet. Hooked up a rheostat into a RS project box to make it nice and neat, and plugged the 1000ma 12v adapter into the back of my receiver for switched power so I don't need to constantly turn them on and off. However I might plug them in to constant power since my PC is always in there and on.


Jeff


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## phsmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraman215* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just finished my project, I should have taken pics but I didn't. Fortunately I had a holesaw that was exactly 80mm. Used the AC8 fans they are super quiet. Hooked up a rheostat into a RS project box to make it nice and neat, and plugged the 1000ma 12v adapter into the back of my receiver for switched power so I don't need to constantly turn them on and off. However I might plug them in to constant power since my PC is always in there and on.
> 
> 
> Jeff



Jeff,

Glad it works! Sounds exactly what I will do. Can you summarize all the parts needed for this setup, price and where you picked up? Did you get 2 fans or 4? Read earlier they should only be used as exhaust fans near top. How did you configure your set up?


Thanks,

Paul


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phsmits* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> Glad it works! Sounds exactly what I will do. Can you summarize all the parts needed for this setup, price and where you picked up? Did you get 2 fans or 4? Read earlier they should only be used as exhaust fans near top. How did you configure your set up?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul



In my setup I went with one exhaust fan at the top of the component tower. I have a fairly large home at the base for the cabling coming in and the doors are far from air-tight so I figured fresh air will find its way in. Instead of a rheostat I cabled the fan to a variable voltage 1300mA or so AC->DC converter you can buy cheaply at Walmart or RadioShack. These converters are the universal ones that come with all the connectors you can plug into the end. They range from like 3.5v to 12v with a switch so you can set the fan to whatever fixed speed you like. RadioShack sells a mating plug with wires that I used to solder together an intermediate cable that is a 3-pin fan header to female universal power plug. This way I can swap out fans with ease if need be. You can buy a fan splitter cable and tack the universal connector on to that instead to connect two or more fans.

All said, I probably spent under $20 all said and done; fan, converter, plugs, etc. I run mine 24/7 as there is a DVR in the cabinet.


The RS adapter plug in question:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family 


For the AC->DC adapter, just search RS online for "ac-to-dc adapter" (ex. part 273-1680 is one). Walmart is much cheaper.


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## supraman215

I used artic fans from newegg 80mm they were 17.88 shipped. The 12v 1000ma power adapter from RS was also $18. Then the misc other parts were probably $5 box, wire, rheostat. I was thinking about the variable power supply sounds like a good idea and I'm sure walmart was way cheaper for something like that then RS. But there are no walmarts near here. So it was just over $40 still a good deal. Still need a way to monitor the temp and test different fan speeds.


Jeff


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraman215* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But there are no walmarts near here.


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## supraman215

Well there is one but it's not on my way home from work, and it's lik 30 minutes into noman's land lol.


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## kruzmisl

I set up an AV systems with plasma and components in separate cabinets. Components were rack mounted in a closed cabinet and the plasma was in a wall recess with a picture frame around it. I bought two System 1's from Active Thermal Management.
http://www.activethermal.com/System_1.htm 

One worked so well I used a "Y" to split air flow to cover both systems and never used the second one, and since the unit is in the attic there is no discernable sound. My Adelphia (now Time Warner) "Moxie Box" DVR runs 24/7, and HOT, so my fan needs to run 24/7 otherwise the DVR would roast itself and the other components. This unit is relatively low cost to run continuously especially with a speed control that cut down the speed. I used inexpensive HVAC 3" aluminum stretch tubing and fittings from Home Depot to connect to the cabinets. Using a remote thermometer to monitor the units the inside of the cabinet with the volume cranked up is not that much above room temp except for right behind some of the components but the air gets sucked up and out of the top of the cabinets. The air goes into the plasma through a 1/2" by 48" slot in the bottom of the frame and then up past the plasma and out 2 holes in the ceiling to the attic. If anyone is interested in info (or a deal on my unused 2nd unit) I'd be glad to discuss it.

John


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## dhaberer

Is there any easy way to connect standard case fans (with a 3 or 4 pin molex connector) to be powered by either USB or a wall outlet?


I'd rather not have to have a case power supply and I do have an available USB port from my dish box that I can use. All I"m needing to power is a single, maybe two 120mm case fans.


Thanks in advance.


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## Johnla

At roughly $200, it is not cheap. But it plugs right into a wall outlet, has 3 92mm user selectable variable speed fans. And also has a 12v trigger input to turn it on. And the option of a 10 minute delayed off, to cool down very hot running items even after they have been turned off. And it also has a 10 year warranty on parts with a 5 year warranty on labor. But even with the $200 price, it's really not that bad for what it offers. I have seen similar products that offer a lot less, yet they also cost a lot more. Than this Parasound "Zbreeze" does.

http://www.parasound.com/zcustom/zbreeze.php 

http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/ZbreezeBrochure.pdf


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## supraman215

The 2 80mm Artic cooling fans are not quiet. Not sure why but i can definately hear them when the room is silent. Not when there is sound though.


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dhaberer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there any easy way to connect standard case fans (with a 3 or 4 pin molex connector) to be powered by either USB or a wall outlet?
> 
> 
> I'd rather not have to have a case power supply and I do have an available USB port from my dish box that I can use. All I"m needing to power is a single, maybe two 120mm case fans.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



If you read up two or three posts you have your answer. Get a cheap AC->DC converter.


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraman215* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 2 80mm Artic cooling fans are not quiet. Not sure why but i can definately hear them when the room is silent. Not when there is sound though.



Turn them down to 10 volts or so; they run much quieter at that speed.


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## sorahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> The RS adapter plug in question:
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=family
> 
> 
> For the AC->DC adapter, just search RS online for "ac-to-dc adapter" (ex. part 273-1680 is one). Walmart is much cheaper.



So the adapter plug from RS has bare wires on one side to connect with the wires we cut the plug off the end of the case fans?


John


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sorahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So the adapter plug from RS has bare wires on one side to connect with the wires we cut the plug off the end of the case fans?
> 
> 
> John



Yes it has bare ends. You *could* cut the plug off the fan and solder it directly to the adapter plug, or you can do what I did and solder the adapter plug to a male connector that mates to the fan plug. This way you can swap out fans if necessary without cutting and resoldering.


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## sorahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes it has bare ends. You *could* cut the plug off the fan and solder it directly to the adapter plug, or you can do what I did and solder the adapter plug to a male connector that mates to the fan plug. This way you can swap out fans if necessary without cutting and resoldering.



Grim, thanks







any chance you can provide a photo of this? And just so I"m understanding you correctly. You used multiple fans to run off the one wall wart unit? I'm thinking about using three fans, one blowing in the cabinet at the bottom, and the other two at the top exhausting the air. Only one concern I have is that all this is in a 'closet'. My contractor suggesting one interesting idea. Using a type of dryer exhaust set up to take the air out of the cabinet and exhaust it right out of the closet itself.. I'm not sure but if my idea does't cool it off enuf i might try his.


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sorahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Grim, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any chance you can provide a photo of this? And just so I"m understanding you correctly. You used multiple fans to run off the one wall wart unit? I'm thinking about using three fans, one blowing in the cabinet at the bottom, and the other two at the top exhausting the air. Only one concern I have is that all this is in a 'closet'. My contractor suggesting one interesting idea. Using a type of dryer exhaust set up to take the air out of the cabinet and exhaust it right out of the closet itself.. I'm not sure but if my idea does't cool it off enuf i might try his.



I'm running one at the top of my cabinet as an exhaust. There is no reason you couldn't run more than one if you have a large enough transformer. Each fan is rated for a max current draw at 12V. Make sure that the AC->DC converter can source more than all of them added together with some margin.

I'll try to post a pic tomorrow.


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## rabident




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kruzmisl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I set up an AV systems with plasma and components in separate cabinets. Components were rack mounted in a closed cabinet and the plasma was in a wall recess with a picture frame around it. I bought two System 1's from Active Thermal Management.
> http://www.activethermal.com/System_1.htm
> 
> One worked so well I used a "Y" to split air flow to cover both systems and never used the second one, and since the unit is in the attic there is no discernable sound. My Adelphia (now Time Warner) "Moxie Box" DVR runs 24/7, and HOT, so my fan needs to run 24/7 otherwise the DVR would roast itself and the other components. This unit is relatively low cost to run continuously especially with a speed control that cut down the speed. I used inexpensive HVAC 3" aluminum stretch tubing and fittings from Home Depot to connect to the cabinets. Using a remote thermometer to monitor the units the inside of the cabinet with the volume cranked up is not that much above room temp except for right behind some of the components but the air gets sucked up and out of the top of the cabinets. The air goes into the plasma through a 1/2" by 48" slot in the bottom of the frame and then up past the plasma and out 2 holes in the ceiling to the attic. If anyone is interested in info (or a deal on my unused 2nd unit) I'd be glad to discuss it.
> 
> John



Pretty cool John. I'm in the process of doing similar, trying to vent the heat out of the room altogether instead of just the rack. I'm connecting my exhaust up to the air intake return on my HVAC system, but I think I might need something to encourage the air in the rack to leave.


I was afraid if I just vented to the attic I would end up with too much negative pressure (after running the fan 24x7) that it wouldn't push air anymore. I know bathroom vents will push all day, but they're loud. Plus in the winter time, I'd rather not throw hot air outside.


For that system 1, can you put the blower in the attic so it sucks the air out of the room through the tube? Or does the blower need to sit in the room and blow the air down the tube?


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## BlueOtto

Not knowing much about electricity and not wanting to fry anything, I thought I'd be clever and got a USB-to-IDE cable which has a power adapter and supplies a molex 4-pin connector (won't let me post URL... I'm generally a lurker). Then I got a regular computer fan which has an adapter to use with that kind of connector.


Well... my luck wasn't so good. The power adapter only seems to supply 3 of the 4 pins, and the adapter for the fan needs the missing pin it seems... it just doesn't work... any ideas for me?


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## Targus

USB ports are 5V...1/2 amp, unmanaged.


If you have a 5V fan, it would work...otherwise, you'll need a 12V (or whatever the fan needs) supply.


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## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Targus* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> USB ports are 5V...1/2 amp, unmanaged.
> 
> 
> If you have a 5V fan, it would work...otherwise, you'll need a 12V (or whatever the fan needs) supply.



You could simply pop the 5V supply pin from its spot on the molex and move it to the 12V spot. The fan will run fine at 5V, but will be much slower; it may still be to your liking.


----------



## BlueOtto

Sorry, must not have explained myself well enough. The URL would have shown it nicely-- the USB-to-IDE adapter had two parts, the data cord, and a power supply that plugs into the mains and supplies a 4-pin molex connector. IOW, the power is not supplied by USB, rather the included power supply.


----------



## BlueOtto

The pins that are there are 1, 3, and 4. From looking up on the web, the 2 is a ground lead.


----------



## Targus

A 4 pin molex power connector has 2 grounds, a +5V and a +12V .


Are you saying that your fan has 3 conductors?


----------



## BlueOtto

Because a picture is worth a thousand words... attached.


----------



## Targus

Move the black wire from the fan, to the pin next to it on the molex connector. They left out one of the grounds, because it's not really necessary...both middle pins should be ground.

Just move the molex pin.


----------



## BadAttitude

Jeff, One good way to quiet fans is to "series two DC fans to get half speed and more than half the noise of one! This also allows the distribution of the flow in a cabinet situation.


Carll


----------



## BlueOtto

Thanks... I was able to slide the molex connector out and swap them with just the help of a tweezers, and it works great. I am also able to add more fans onto the same setup. I'd definately recommend it as an inexpensive and easy way to add fans.


----------



## BlueOtto

This is the equipment I used:

For power: http://www.directron.com/usb2535.html 

I got 2 fans: http://www.directron.com/safb82.html - these came with the 3-pin to 4-pin adapter

I also picked up a few extensions: http://www.directron.com/3pincable.html 


Am not affiliated with the company... just the one that had all the parts I needed to minimize shipping costs.


For someone that doesn't know how / want to solder, yet wants to add some cooling to their entertainment center... I think this is an easy way to go.


----------



## hinfer

BlueOtto,


I like your solution. I was wondering how you connected two fans to the one power source. Did you need a splitter (I didn't see it in the list above).


I would like to add 4 fans to the one power source. Would this be possible? OTherwise, I am fine to pick up two of these power supplies (2 fans per source).


Sorry I am a novice but would really like to know how these all hooked up. I'll be getting the usb to ide device soon.


Thanks in advance


----------



## BlueOtto

The fans that I bought came with a 4-pin to 3-pin adapter, which looks like this one: http://www.cpu.com/product.php?ID=789&src=frgl 


On the 4-pin to 3-pin adapter, it still gives you another 4-pin... so I just kind of daisy chain them together. You aren't limited to two.


I only had to make the small molex-pin switch mod to the very first one in the series.


----------



## intexltd

Question regarding fans: Blow or suck air??

I have an HTPC, Power conditioner and Tivo unit in one closed cabinet. I put in two holes in the back, and connected one 92mm fan to suck air out of the back of the cabinet, and another on the other side of the back to blow into the cabinet. Since the HTPC is on all the time, I think I will run these 24/7, but would it be better to:

1. put in the fans in "blow-in" mode

2. Keep the fans as is.

3. Cut out the whole back of the cabinet (18" wide x 12" high hole) and just mount the fans to the shelf in back of the equipment?


----------



## dscrimager




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intexltd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question regarding fans: Blow or suck air??
> 
> I have an HTPC, Power conditioner and Tivo unit in one closed cabinet. I put in two holes in the back, and connected one 92mm fan to suck air out of the back of the cabinet, and another on the other side of the back to blow into the cabinet. Since the HTPC is on all the time, I think I will run these 24/7, but would it be better to:
> 
> 1. put in the fans in "blow-in" mode
> 
> 2. Keep the fans as is.
> 
> 3. Cut out the whole back of the cabinet (18" wide x 12" high hole) and just mount the fans to the shelf in back of the equipment?



I, personally, have this set this up thusly. One fan is on the bottom of my cabinet pulling in from the front and out toward the back. Another is near the top mounted on the back wall of the cabinet venting out. The only real problem I get is the dust on the front of all my equipment from the pull in around the cabinet doors. All the equipment stays reasonably cool. The fans are connected to a simple heat-activated circuit with a couple of sensors placed on the hottest spots of the hottest equipment.


----------



## intexltd

dscimager,

What type of heat-activated circuit are u using, and how do you set them up with sensors?


----------



## dscrimager




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intexltd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dscimager,
> 
> What type of heat-activated circuit are u using, and how do you set them up with sensors?



Check out this thread 




My original setup is still going strong and works fine for a DIY...


----------



## Espo77

Parasound makes a half rack sized cooling fan called the Zbreeze for 200.00. It's really only good for placing on top of a hot component to help reduce the heat,not for cooling the whole rack. Set on high speed the CFM is 70. As you stated "I'm not to savy with electricity", so maybe this will help you.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Espo77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Parasound makes a half rack sized cooling fan called the Zbreeze for 200.00. It's really only good for placing on top of a hot component to help reduce the heat,not for cooling the whole rack. Set on high speed the CFM is 70. As you stated "I'm not to savy with electricity", so maybe this will help you.



A company called Cool Components makes something very similar to the Parasound Zbreeze with their CP-CC-101, but it's priced at about 1/2 the price of the Zbreeze. Plus they also have other coolers, and they also offer thermal control options for them. And most of their cooler products are also available through partsexpress.com for good prices as well.


http://www.cool-components.com/m6_view_item.html 

http://www.cool-components.com/34.html?sm=17377


----------



## Espo77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A company called Cool Components makes something very similar to the Parasound Zbreeze with their CP-CC-101, but it's priced at about 1/2 the price of the Zbreeze. Plus they also have other coolers, and they also offer thermal control options for them. And most of their cooler products are also available through partsexpress.com for good prices as well.
> 
> 
> http://www.cool-components.com/m6_view_item.html
> 
> http://www.cool-components.com/34.html?sm=17377



Looks pretty good, but at quick glance I didn't see any specs. By the way, I would not place any of my components in an enclosed cabinet that would cause poor air circulation. For example,my 5 channel amp is placed on a bottom shelf of a wood cabinet with two wood doors, but when the system is on I open the doors and there is about 10 inches of air space above it.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Espo77* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks pretty good, but at quick glance I didn't see any specs.


 http://www.cool-components.com/uploa...-CC-101%29.pdf 


And as per partsexpress.com


"The CC101 set-top, dual fan unit aggressively circulates and moves air away from equipment protecting it from heat and thermal shutdown. Designed for amplifiers and receivers it is constructed from heavy gauge steel for a great look, but the steel also acts as a large heat sink increasing the efficiency of the unit. Two high-quality levitation blowers (brushless with a special bearing system) are mounted on floating gaskets to eliminate noise. It operates on DC voltage and by adjusting the voltage the unit can be run silent or more aggressively depending on the application. Available in two models: a "Standard" version for normal heat issues and a "High Velocity" model for extreme heat applications. Use the CA-TR-100 power supply # 305-305.


Specifications: *Enclosure: Heavy gauge steel *Fan: 2 brushless levitation blowers with a special bearing system *Air flow: 8 CFM max *Noise: ~28 dB max *Power connection: 2.1mm jack (center pin positive) *Voltage: 7 to 12 VDC *Current: 80 mA max *Power consumption: 1W max *Dimensions: 6-1/4" W x 1" H x 4" D.


* Dual fans

* Quiet and efficient operation

* Low profile allows placement in tight spaces

* Quick and easy installation

* Necessary for any equipment rack

* Affordable cooling system

* Uses a variable voltage power supply to adjust fan speed"



And some info on their new CP-CC-102

http://www.cool-components.com/uploa...-CC-102%29.pdf 


And some application charts with CFM ratings

http://www.cool-components.com/uploa...ng%20Scale.pdf


----------



## intexltd

I am still having cooling problems with a A-TechFabrication HTPC in a cabinet (along with DTR and power protection). It already has a 92mm DC PC fan in the back left side blowing air in , and one on the right side sucking out. There is not that much air movement though. I want to add another 92mm DC fan right above or on top of the PC (It has a top that is comprised of ALL ventilating holes). Should I put the fan in an orientation to blow air into the PC or suck warm air out? The PC uses heat tubes instead of fans for the video card and CPU.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intexltd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Should I put the fan in an orientation to blow air into the PC or suck warm air out? The PC uses heat tubes instead of fans for the video card and CPU.



It depends on what you want to cool, the cabinet or the PC. As you are aware, heat pipes need airflow over them or else they are useless.

Having a fan feed the PC with fresh air will lower the PCs temps (video/CPU) but that air vents into the cabinet.

Having the fan suck out will lower the ambient temp inside the cabinet for the other components.


You really have nothing to lose by experimenting both ways; just record the temps and choose.


----------



## SteVeO

I ran across this site, called Cooler Guys. It is really a PC cooling site, but it has a section for home theater cooling...and it has virtually everything that folks mention above in this thread and it looks like they've figured out all the adapters, etc., needed. http://www.coolerguys.com/ho.html#top .


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteVeO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ran across this site, called Cooler Guys. It is really a PC cooling site, but it has a section for home theater cooling...and it has virtually everything that folks mention above in this thread and it looks like they've figured out all the adapters, etc., needed. http://www.coolerguys.com/ho.html#top .



The sound specs on those AC fans ar appallingly loud AND they are not easily speed adjustable. Stick with a variable output voltage A/C->DC adapter and a silent PC fan. I personally would want well under 22 dB with any size fan I chose.


----------



## SteVeO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The sound specs on those AC fans ar appallingly loud AND they are not easily speed adjustable. Stick with a variable output voltage A/C->DC adapter and a silent PC fan. I personally would want well under 22 dB with any size fan I chose.



The fan I was looking at on the page is 8.7db...
http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intexltd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question regarding fans: Blow or suck air??
> 
> I have an HTPC, Power conditioner and Tivo unit in one closed cabinet. I put in two holes in the back, and connected one 92mm fan to suck air out of the back of the cabinet, and another on the other side of the back to blow into the cabinet. Since the HTPC is on all the time, I think I will run these 24/7, but would it be better to:
> 
> 1. put in the fans in "blow-in" mode
> 
> 2. Keep the fans as is.
> 
> 3. Cut out the whole back of the cabinet (18" wide x 12" high hole) and just mount the fans to the shelf in back of the equipment?



I built my own cabinet with tinted glasses and installed fans at the bottom of the side cabinets believing that (1) the coldest air comes from the lowest point, (2) I can more quickly pull in cooler air from the bottom vs installing it as an exhaust since the exhaust method requires time for the air to circulate and (3) many av equipment already have fans serving as an exhaust.


I bought 3" 12VDC fans from Radio Shack and they are loud, I believe 29db. Though I have yet to see dust intake, I might have to by a screen to minimize it. The fan is plugged into the wall and controlled by a light switch. I might have to upgrade to the quieter fans mentioned here.


However, I have an OT question: Where can I buy sturdy screens for the back of the cabinet; similar to the circular mesh screens on the Salamanders? I'd prefer a diamond shape rather than circular, but I'd take anything at this point. I thought about buying window screens, but they are flimsy and look cheap.


----------



## skitime2

Wish I would have found this earlier! I used two 110v radio shack 3" fans in the back of my cabinet with a lamp dimmer to control the speed. At full blast, they are really noticeable, at half speed, not too bad. 12 volt would definitely be the way to go....


----------



## mak99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a_ok2me* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However, I have an OT question: Where can I buy sturdy screens for the back of the cabinet; similar to the circular mesh screens on the Salamanders? I'd prefer a diamond shape rather than circular, but I'd take anything at this point. I thought about buying window screens, but they are flimsy and look cheap.



Try McNichols , they should have something that'll work for you...


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mak99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try McNichols , they should have something that'll work for you...



You can find some similar things in what's commonly called 'expanded metal' in most home building centers like Home Depot, Lowes or Menards. If you look in the areas where they usually also sell small 3'-4' lengths of steel such as flat steel and angle iron and bar stock. Where they also usually have a selection of sheet steel and aluminum, and where many times they also have a small selection of both perforated and expanded versions of sheet metals also. Also take a look in the heating and cooling supply area. Because there are many decorative heating and cooling vents and grids, that would probably work as well. In where you could just cut out the center for the piece you need.


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mak99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try McNichols , they should have something that'll work for you...





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can find some similar things in what's commonly called 'expanded metal' in most home building centers like Home Depot, Lowes or Menards. If you look in the areas where they usually also sell small 3'-4' lengths of steel such as flat steel and angle iron and bar stock. Where they also usually have a selection of sheet steel and aluminum, and where many times they also have a small selection of both perforated and expanded versions of sheet metals also. Also take a look in the heating and cooling supply area. Because there are many decorative heating and cooling vents and grids, that would probably work as well. In where you could just cut out the center for the piece you need.



Perfect - thanks.


----------



## peebody01

Anyone tried the cabinet and home theater coolers from this site?

http://www.buyextras.com/cacoso.html...FQkaHgodi1Tykg 


Just wondering what people thought. I'm looking to add some cooling to my closed A/V cabinet. It includes Comcast cable box, receiver, DVD, 2 ReplayTVs, and a Media MVP. I'm planning on finally upgrading the hard drive in one of the ReplayTVs and I'm concerned about overheating.


I don't want to break the bank in a solution, but I also want to settle on a solution that will work. The Triktags.com solution is intriguing for the price at around $70 bucks.


Of course, noise is the biggest concern, I want something quiet!


Thanks!


----------



## mbroadus

I have 2 Thermaltake USB adjustible speed fans that I bought on Amazon.com and they do a good job of cooling my components and PS3.


----------



## Bob7145

Or... http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/...ans-Page1.html


----------



## mweppner

I know there are plenty DIY projects I could get myself into to play around and get everything working at an affordable rate. However, I'm not very patient nor skilled in these areas (please don't make fun of me!).


That said, I was thinking of the following items. I'm getting a Salamander Synergy series triple stand and it will house an Onkyo receiver, an HD DVD player, a PS3 and a traditional DVD player. The HD cable box, will be in the middle, somewhat "out in the open", so I"m not too concerned with it. The front doors of the cabinet are grated, and the top-center will have open sides for air to escape as well. One of the back panels is the "extended" panel which, if the picture online is accurate, has some venting in it as well.


PS3 cooling:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1168044005667 


Onkyo receiver cooling:
http://www.cool-components.com/m6_vi...item=CP-CP-101 


Fans blowing out (one on each side of the unit - one side will have the Onkyo and HD DVD player, the other side will have the PS3 and the normal DVD player):
http://www.cool-components.com/m6_vi...m=CP-VP-101BLK 


2 questions (for now):

1) does this seem to be a good setup to keep the inside of the cabinet cool (or "cool enough")?

2) is it a "problem" to have the air blowing straight out from the back of the entertainment center and essentially blowing against the wall? Is there a better alternative?


THANKS!


----------



## Bob7145

I bought a second hand AV server cabinet for $200. About 4 feet tall, black lexan door that uses standard 19" rackmount shelves and accessories. It was fitted with 2 120mm x 38mm 110v fans at the top. I bought a vented shelf to put the amplifier on at the top and replaced the 110v fans with quieter 12v 120mm fans and run them off a small computer PS that is plugged into the amps switched outlet so the fans only run when the amplifier is on. The floor of the cabinet is open and near the AC vent so works pretty good for now.


----------



## matt00926

I mounted a 120mm DC fan in the back of mine and it only turns on when you turn the amp on. 80mm is going to annoyingly loud if you wish to move any air.


----------



## migs_inc

I'm thinking about a DIY cooling project for my entertainment center. Looked at all these posts and got some great ideas, but as I am not well versed in electrical endeavors, I need some expertise.


This is what I know (or think I know):
I want to install one inflow and one exhaust fan (so, 2 fans total) in the back of my entertainment center.

I want to use 2 of the "Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) (SFF21E) (SFF21F) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible" fans, http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html .

I want to use Mechatronics fan mounts ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556081456.html ) for each fan.

I **THINK** I need this AC adapter: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html


So, my questions are:
How do I wire the two fans to the single AC adapter? Is there a splitter or something that connects the two fans together AND to the AC adapter?

*IMPORTANT* - I want the fans to use a thermostat, one that either turns them on when the temperature reaches 80-85 degrees, or one that gradually increases fan speed as the temperature increases. Is there a simple thermostat I can install? Alternatively, can I use a cheap digital thermostat from Home Depot and wire it into the wire between the AC adapter and the fans?


Appreciate your advice. Please be specific, as again I am not an expert.


Thank you,


Paul M.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *migs_inc* /forum/post/11496569
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about a DIY cooling project for my entertainment center. Looked at all these posts and got some great ideas, but as I am not well versed in electrical endeavors, I need some expertise.
> 
> 
> This is what I know (or think I know):
> I want to install one inflow and one exhaust fan (so, 2 fans total) in the back of my entertainment center.
> 
> I want to use 2 of the "Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) (SFF21E) (SFF21F) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible" fans, http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html .
> 
> I want to use Mechatronics fan mounts ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556081456.html ) for each fan.
> 
> I **THINK** I need this AC adapter: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html
> 
> 
> So, my questions are:
> How do I wire the two fans to the single AC adapter? Is there a splitter or something that connects the two fans together AND to the AC adapter?
> 
> *IMPORTANT* - I want the fans to use a thermostat, one that either turns them on when the temperature reaches 80-85 degrees, or one that gradually increases fan speed as the temperature increases. Is there a simple thermostat I can install? Alternatively, can I use a cheap digital thermostat from Home Depot and wire it into the wire between the AC adapter and the fans?
> 
> 
> Appreciate your advice. Please be specific, as again I am not an expert.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> Paul M.



The fans attach in parallel; use ANY off the shelf molex splitter ("Y Cable") such as this one:
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556000662.html 


Honestly, I don't know why you don't just let the fans run all the time. Especially if they truly are that quiet. At 8dba you shouldn't hear them at all.


I use one exhaust fan undervolted (via variable ac->dc adapter); you would be surprised what just a little bit of airflow will accomplish.


Most components (Ie. DVR, Receiver) have a controllable outlet on the back of them; if you plug the power brick into them you can have the fans turn on and off automatically with them if you really want to.


----------



## Bob7145

I used a 120mm computer fan and put a 1/4" rubber foot on each corner of the fan and then set it on top of the amp blowing up and connected it with a wall wart to the switched output on the amp so it comes on with the amp. Never gets hot or even warm really.


----------



## CHolleman

i'm looking to setup something in my armoire since the Moto STB i have runs fairly hot. (the boxes internal fan kicks in and is annoyingly loud)


what's the rule of thumb concerning fan size and air movement?


small fan, high speed, = air movement, but loud?


larger fan, lower speed = same air movement as smaller fan, but quieter?


would a 92mm be a compromise between having quiet giants and small noise makers?


the artic cooling fans from newegg look appealing due to price and performance.


additionally, the reason my STB is getting so hot is that i have about 1.5 inches of air space about it and it's on the top rack. i can gain about .25" of air space if i swap it with the dvd player below it. would it be worth it?


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11592548
> 
> 
> i'm looking to setup something in my armoire since the Moto STB i have runs fairly hot. (the boxes internal fan kicks in and is annoyingly loud)
> 
> 
> what's the rule of thumb concerning fan size and air movement?
> 
> 
> small fan, high speed, = air movement, but loud?
> 
> 
> larger fan, lower speed = same air movement as smaller fan, but quieter?
> 
> 
> would a 92mm be a compromise between having quiet giants and small noise makers?
> 
> 
> the artic cooling fans from newegg look appealing due to price and performance.
> 
> 
> additionally, the reason my STB is getting so hot is that i have about 1.5 inches of air space about it and it's on the top rack. i can gain about .25" of air space if i swap it with the dvd player below it. would it be worth it?



Bigger fans move more air at lower RPMs; small fans need to spin faster to generate an equivalent air flow. The faster you spin, the more noise you make.


My cabinet is enclosed; I have a Motorola 6416 DVR on the top shelf; ~6" from top of dvr to the top of the cabinet. It runs 24/7.

Within that 6" space is my sole exhaust fan, an Arctic cooling 80mm fan cranked down to 3.5V. With a room temp of 77F right now, the top 6" of my cabinet containing the DVR is at around 84F. The only air inlet to the cabinet is the cable entry at the base (4" or so diam hole) and through the door jam.


----------



## CHolleman

Grim,


In your opinion, would you suggest I figure out some solution to gain more airspace above the unit or would adding the fans be sufficient? there's ~6-8" on all sides except the top. I would exhaust through the top, but it's a solid 2-2.5" thick, while the back is luan and much easier to cut through. i was thinking 2 80mm fans at the top with an adjustable power supply and possible a few vent holes at the bottom, but the cabinet is anything but air tight. here's a pic of the cabinet:




















the photo shows a D* STB, but i'm running the same as you, the 6416. the fan inside the 6416 must be variable. when the top shelf is pulled out, it's nice and quiet (plenty of ventilation) when it's pushed in, the fans cycles high and low speeds and is extremely annoying.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11594077
> 
> 
> Grim,
> 
> 
> In your opinion, would you suggest I figure out some solution to gain more airspace above the unit or would adding the fans be sufficient? there's ~6-8" on all sides except the top. I would exhaust through the top, but it's a solid 2-2.5" thick, while the back is luan and much easier to cut through. i was thinking 2 80mm fans at the top with an adjustable power supply and possible a few vent holes at the bottom, but the cabinet is anything but air tight.



Here's a very early picture of my cabinet with a test fan:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=20391 


In your pic, I'd say you would be fine with the fans on either side of the DVR, as close to the top as you can get them. If you want more air coming in, you can always cut a hole in back of the CD changer where you can't see it (I assume you already have one filled with cables/power cords).

As you can see, mine is cut in the faux wood backing too.

You'll see early in this thread exactly what I used for a power supply; a $13 variable ac->dc psu from Walmart. Couple a "Y" cable to that to the fans and you're all set.


----------



## CHolleman

thanks Grim.


i'm trying to decide on whether or not to use two fans at the top for exhaust or one fan for intake at the bottom and one for exhaust at the top. if i use two fans powered by one adjustable 12v power supply, are there any particular specs i need to look for to power two fans, or would any old adjustable 12v PS do the trick?


i'm really leaning towards two exhaust fans at the top though, b/c of the limited amount of airspace above the DVR. i would imagine two would move twice the air and keep it cool.


also pondering the thermostatically controlled fans for efficiency, but i'm not try to dump a lot of money into the fan setup, like the $100 pre-made units you can buy. after all, they're just fans for God's sake.


lastly, Scythe, or artic cool? dual 80's turned down with the PS, or a single 120?


----------



## migs_inc

I decided to get two of the Scythe fans for cooling my entertainment center. They are found at http://www.coolerbguys.com/sff21.html .


I haven't installed them yet, but I did wire them together and test them. They are EXTREMELY quiet. I literally had to put my ear right next to them to hear them. As such, for those looking for an extraordinarily quiet fan at a decent price, check these out.


FYI, they chain together, so no need for connectors. Just get an AC-DC power adapter and you're ready to go.


Paul M.


----------



## Bob7145

Wall wart with 4pin molex or AC 120mm fans
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g46/...ml?id=NIWuNxub


----------



## CHolleman

i think i'm going to go with the 80mm scythe fans, but i'm not sure if i need one or two for exhaust. also, i can't seem to find the adjustable power supplies anywhere online. i can find the non-adj. ones, but i want to be able to tweak the voltage if the fans are too noisy for my taste.


----------



## SteVeO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *migs_inc* /forum/post/11599698
> 
> 
> I decided to get two of the Scythe fans for cooling my entertainment center. They are found at http://www.coolerbguys.com/sff21.html .



There is an error in your link. It should be: http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11655313
> 
> 
> i think i'm going to go with the 80mm scythe fans, but i'm not sure if i need one or two for exhaust. also, i can't seem to find the adjustable power supplies anywhere online. i can find the non-adj. ones, but i want to be able to tweak the voltage if the fans are too noisy for my taste.



If you get the fans referenced, they are basically completely silent. You can't hear them from 1 foot away.


----------



## migs_inc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11655313
> 
> 
> i think i'm going to go with the 80mm scythe fans, but i'm not sure if i need one or two for exhaust. also, i can't seem to find the adjustable power supplies anywhere online. i can find the non-adj. ones, but i want to be able to tweak the voltage if the fans are too noisy for my taste.



I am using two Scythe 80mm fans, one for exhaust, one for intake, because my entertainment center is basically otherwise not ventilated. If yours is similar, go with two, if yours is well ventilated (open back, for example), one is probably fine. You can daisy-chain them together easily.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteVeO* /forum/post/11655816
> 
> 
> There is an error in your link. It should be: http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html
> 
> 
> If you get the fans referenced, they are basically completely silent. You can't hear them from 1 foot away.



referenced? oh, and does anyone have a link to an adjustable wall wart?


----------



## Roger Huston

All,


I like some of the solutions here, but does anyone know if there is a simple USB fan? I mean, most of my units have a USB port (seems like everything comes with one now adays) and it would be simple to plug in a USB fan and when the device powered on, the fan would power on.


- Roger


----------



## Roger Huston

Hello,


I have one more question. I have a Nice BDI entertainment system and for the most part it is very well ventilated. For my Blue-Ray player I went with a PS3 as I just couldn't resist. Even though my bdi is well ventilated I find that the PS3 fan still comes on.


I was thinking of using some of the Scythe 120mm 8db fans to move more air around the PS3, but I am really unsure of how deep the problem is. I know they make an external PS3 fan unit, but I was really hoping to go with a quieter solution.


Does anyone have experience with the PS3? Will blowing more air around it shut-it up or do I need to create a forced air system to direct the air though the system?


Thanks


-Roger


----------



## aclerok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Huston* /forum/post/11689868
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I have one more question. I have a Nice BDI entertainment system and for the most part it is very well ventilated. For my Blue-Ray player I went with a PS3 as I just couldn't resist. Even though my bdi is well ventilated I find that the PS3 fan still comes on.
> 
> 
> I was thinking of using some of the Scythe 120mm 8db fans to move more air around the PS3, but I am really unsure of how deep the problem is. I know they make an external PS3 fan unit, but I was really hoping to go with a quieter solution.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with the PS3? Will blowing more air around it shut-it up or do I need to create a forced air system to direct the air though the system?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> -Roger



I've used those same fans in my setup and it works quite well. My cabinet is split down the middle with the cable box on the top shelf and the PS3 on the bottom on one side. I've placed one of those fans near the top on each side(my receiver is on the other half. This seems to draw out all of the hot air and keeps the fan on my PS3 from kicking on. Plus those fans use so little energy you don't have to worry about keeping them running constantly and they are rated for 100,000+ hours or use.


----------



## Roger Huston

Good Advice,


I was thinking of getting:


Power Unit: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html 

Splitter: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026983.html 

Fans: http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html 

Stands: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556081456.html 


This would be a 24/7 always on device which is fine, however I would like some control and I am considering this unit:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/62...61.html?tl=g46 


I just see that it takes 5V in, yet everything else is 12V. Not sure how to use it without a PC power supply.


Any ideas?


- Roger


----------



## CHolleman

is there such a thing as an adjustable wall wart? i've looked on radio shack and walmart's webite, but couldn't find anything.


----------



## supraman215




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roger Huston* /forum/post/11692647
> 
> 
> Good Advice,
> 
> 
> I was thinking of getting:
> 
> 
> Power Unit: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html
> 
> Splitter: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026983.html
> 
> Fans: http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html
> 
> Stands: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556081456.html
> 
> 
> This would be a 24/7 always on device which is fine, however I would like some control and I am considering this unit:
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/62...61.html?tl=g46
> 
> 
> I just see that it takes 5V in, yet everything else is 12V. Not sure how to use it without a PC power supply.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> - Roger



You suggested setup will work fine. The power unit you have listed there outputs to a standard PC power interface which is 12v and 5v. Here is an excerpt from the power unit's specs. So all those pieces together will make your power.


Model: CS-120/0502000-E

Input: 100-240VAC 50/60Hz 1.5A

Output: 12V +- 2A

5V+- 2A


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11711482
> 
> 
> is there such a thing as an adjustable wall wart? i've looked on radio shack and walmart's webite, but couldn't find anything.



Yes, I assure you that your local Walmart has them; they are universal AC->DC converters. They have a tiny switch on them that lets you select between multiple voltages.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/11715749
> 
> 
> Yes, I assure you that your local Walmart has them; they are universal AC->DC converters. They have a tiny switch on them that lets you select between multiple voltages.



i assume thy'd be in electronics? i guess i'll have to actually go there (which i loathe)


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11720836
> 
> 
> i assume thy'd be in electronics? i guess i'll have to actually go there (which i loathe)



Yes; in audio/tv right along side all the A/V cables.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11711482
> 
> 
> is there such a thing as an adjustable wall wart? i've looked on radio shack and walmart's webite, but couldn't find anything.



You may want to try Radio Shack again. Because they do actually have quite a few different ones available. Here are 3 of them.


http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...entPage=search


----------



## CHolleman

thanks for the links. what amperage do i want?


----------



## Johnla

For that, you need to know what amperage your fans will need/draw.

But, bigger than what you actually need won't hurt anything at all, and in fact it may even help you if you want to run multiple fans.

If it was me, I'd get the 2nd one with the 1000mA rating.


----------



## CHolleman

i'm looking at this particular fan:

Scythe 120 


cfm looks good and has a lot of positive reviews. with the adjustable PS, i should be able to tweak it to where i want it. the confusing thing is the dBA's. how do i know how loud 28dBA's is??










here is Scythe's page on that product:

Scythe Specs 


it says the current draw is .2 Amps. how does that relate to 1000mA?


----------



## jkhome

Just a heads up for anyone looking at the Active Thermal Management System 1
http://www.activethermal.com/System_1.htm 


Looks to me as if they are using a basic Fantech fan motor. (Like the one I use in one of my bathrooms







)Similar parts could be assembled from here, for much less $$$:
http://www.hvacquick.com/subproducts.php?prod=BATHFAN


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11755892
> 
> 
> i'm looking at this particular fan:
> 
> Scythe 120
> 
> 
> cfm looks good and has a lot of positive reviews. with the adjustable PS, i should be able to tweak it to where i want it. the confusing thing is the dBA's. how do i know how loud 28dBA's is??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here is Scythe's page on that product:
> 
> Scythe Specs
> 
> 
> it says the current draw is .2 Amps. how does that relate to 1000mA?



any have any thoughts?


----------



## aclerok

1000mA would be 1 amp, so .2 amps would be 200mA.


As for the dBs, 30 dBs is like a "quiet office, leaves rustling" etc. depending on where you look. I have the 8dB fans(2 of them) that run constantly and I don't hear them at all.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aclerok* /forum/post/11781913
> 
> 
> 1000mA would be 1 amp, so .2 amps would be 200mA.
> 
> 
> As for the dBs, 30 dBs is like a "quiet office, leaves rustling" etc. depending on where you look. I have the 8dB fans(2 of them) that run constantly and I don't hear them at all.



info on said fans? how's the cooling?


----------



## aclerok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11782457
> 
> 
> info on said fans? how's the cooling?



Fans work great for me. See my post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11690191 

for more info.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aclerok* /forum/post/11782848
> 
> 
> Fans work great for me. See my post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11690191
> 
> for more info.



thanks. if the 8dBA fans work for your situation, i think i'll consider those. any pics of your cabinet? my Moto DVR is on the top shelf with about 1.5" of airspace above it. i have to slide the shelf out for the time being to keep the noisy fan in the box from turning on.


----------



## CHolleman

i just got my 12v adj. wall wart from RS and my 120mm scythe fan in today. the scythe fan has blk, yellow and red, yet it's a 12v DC fan. why the 3 wires? i got some clip style connectors to splice the wall wart to the fan. i may cut and solder later, but this will do for now. red is 12v, right?


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11880650
> 
> 
> i just got my 12v adj. wall wart from RS and my 120mm scythe fan in today. the scythe fan has blk, yellow and red, yet it's a 12v DC fan. why the 3 wires? i got some clip style connectors to splice the wall wart to the fan. i may cut and solder later, but this will do for now. red is 12v, right?



The third wire is from the fan reports RPM. Just leave it disconnected. Hot and ground should be Red/Black. RPM is usually yellow.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/11881345
> 
> 
> The third wire is from the fan reports RPM. Just leave it disconnected. Hot and ground should be Red/Black. RPM is usually yellow.




man you're right on top of it. thanks again.


----------



## Johnla

The yellow wire is for the RPM sensor feedback to a PC that can show fan speeds. So you don't need to worry about hooking up anything to the yellow wire, you can even cut it off if you want. Red wire is +, black is -, hook those up accordingly.


----------



## CHolleman

got it all hooked up guys. fan is noticeable only if you listen for it. not bad at all. i've got it set to 9v on the wall wart. i may bump it down to 7.5 and see if it still keeps things cool.


----------



## HDnut05

Can anyone tell me if I can use the usb connection on the back of my D* h20 to power a 12 volt fan? Right now I have it connected to a wall wart but, I don't like the idea of it being plugged in all the time. I would like for it to come on only when the equipment is on. I don't have any plugs on the back of my equipment or a 12 volt trigger to connected it to. Any ideas?


----------



## matL

Picked up 2 of the "Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible" fans wondering what folks have done when cutting the hole in the wood cabinet to mount.


Fan's come with 4 metal screws, but I was thinking there has to be a better mounting solution.


If you can detail your measurents and mounting system that would be awesome.


mat


----------



## miata

I saw one of these Silverstone Fan controllers at Fry's for about $35. It regulates the voltage of 3 DC fans based on temperatures at 3 sensors.


I am about ready to get a fairly low profile Salamander Chameleon triple cabinet that has three 20"x18"x20" compartments that I would like to cool. I'm thinking that this controller together with a Scythe fan for each section might be perfect. I already have one of the AC to DC Molex power adapters that I am not using. The plan would be to locate a thermal sensor at the top of each one of the compartments.


Has anybody tried one of these PC fan controllers?


For what is is worth I will have the following components:


Compartment 1: Toshiba HD-XA2, AppleTV and OPP 980 DVD player

Compartment 2: Onkyo 674 AV receiver

Compartment 3 PS3 and VCR


Edit: Another option is this Zalman fan controller that does not control on tempurature, but has a nice display and can alarm on fan failure.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *matL* /forum/post/11901938
> 
> 
> Picked up 2 of the "Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible" fans wondering what folks have done when cutting the hole in the wood cabinet to mount.
> 
> 
> Fan's come with 4 metal screws, but I was thinking there has to be a better mounting solution.
> 
> 
> If you can detail your measurents and mounting system that would be awesome.
> 
> 
> mat



the back of my cabinet was luan, so a dremel did the trick. i just held the fan where i wanted it, then traced the inside, circular opening with a marker and cut it out. you could use a jig saw, dremel hand saw or anything that will cut the hole. i used four small nuts and bolts to secure it and make sure it won't come loose.


----------



## miata

The Zalman ZM-MFC2 is looking better and better as an alternative for fan control. I did have another question related to dust build-up if the fans are on continuously.


Has anybody used a standard air filter -- like those for home heating ducts in a cabinet application? I am thinking that I could put the filter at the bottom of each compartment and sandwiched between the bottom shelf and a thin piece of thin fiber board with ventilation cut-outs.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miata* /forum/post/11909687
> 
> 
> 
> Has anybody used a standard air filter -- like those for home heating ducts in a cabinet application? I am thinking that I could put the filter at the bottom of each compartment and sandwiched between the bottom shelf and a thin piece of thin fiber board with ventilation cut-outs.



I use a either a fine Scotch Brite cleaning pad or a 3M "Final Stripping Pad" for a filter material. Either one can be washed clean in soap & water when dirty, and reused again and again. I prefer to use the 3M stripping pads, mostly because they are thinner.

http://hand-tools.gillroys.com/Sandi...S-s771503.html


----------



## CHolleman

dammit. i noticed on monday a minor ticking noise coming from the fan. the scythe wasn't whisper silent to begin with, but i could definately live with the faint whirr coming from the air movement. the ticking is def. annoying.


----------



## CHolleman

can anyone suggest any other brands of fans that are quiet? the ticking sound is pretty aggravating. there are a couple different bearing types i see on new egg. is one better than another?


----------



## aclerok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11938883
> 
> 
> can anyone suggest any other brands of fans that are quiet? the ticking sound is pretty aggravating. there are a couple different bearing types i see on new egg. is one better than another?



I have these same fans (the 8db version) and they are silent. I would return them if I was you and either ask for new ones or get your money back.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aclerok* /forum/post/11939046
> 
> 
> I have these same fans (the 8db version) and they are silent. I would return them if I was you and either ask for new ones or get your money back.



i think i might be screwed. newegg's policy is to only accept with original packaging. i threw mine away.










did you use any rubber isolators or anything to mount the fan? could that be waht i'm hearing? i need to remove it from the back of the cabinet to make sure.


----------



## aclerok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CHolleman* /forum/post/11939570
> 
> 
> did you use any rubber isolators or anything to mount the fan? could that be waht i'm hearing? i need to remove it from the back of the cabinet to make sure.



I screwed mine right into the backing board of my cabinet.


----------



## miata

I have the faster 1600rpm/28 dB version of these fans. One interesting thing I noticed is that they can be very quite when run at a lower voltage. However, I tried two different controllers and one resulted in a buzzing sound coming from the fan the other just a vert quiet whirling sound. You might want to make sure that the a fan controller is not the issue.


I ended up picking up a SilverStone Eudemon SST-FP52 at Fry's and that unit produced the buzzing sound, so it is not a very good controller for AV applications.


----------



## CHolleman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miata* /forum/post/11944844
> 
> 
> I have the faster 1600rpm/28 dB version of these fans. One interesting thing I noticed is that they can be very quite when run at a lower voltage. However, I tried two different controllers and one resulted in a buzzing sound coming from the fan the other just a vert quiet whirling sound. You might want to make sure that the a fan controller is not the issue.
> 
> 
> I ended up picking up a SilverStone Eudemon SST-FP52 at Fry's and that unit produced the buzzing sound, so it is not a very good controller for AV applications.



possibly. the ticking noise is variable depending on fan speed. i'm using the same fan that you are. for the first few days, just a faint whirling sound, now the ticking. i'm using an adj. PS (wall wart) to control speed and voltage, using the 9v setting. if i raise or lower the voltage, the ticking gets louder or quieter respectively. i'm going to loosen the bolts that hold it to the cabinet to see if anything is obstructing it.


----------



## maggiefan

I have been reading this thread and decided to try a cooling fan for the back of my AV cabinet. I found a 12 volt fan at Radio Shack and a multi voltage power adapter. What an improvement, the internal temp of my Motorola DVR dropped from 120 F. to 102 F. This should help a lot. Thanks to the guys here for their ideas.


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *maggiefan* /forum/post/11975304
> 
> 
> I have been reading this thread and decided to try a cooling fan for the back of my AV cabinet. I found a 12 volt fan at Radio Shack and a multi voltage power adapter. What an improvement, the internal temp of my Motorola DVR dropped from 120 F. to 102 F. This should help a lot. Thanks to the guys here for their ideas.



I'd return it if I was you. That's what I have and it's LOUD (80mm fan @ 32db)! It moves OK air (27CFM). I'd recommend any fan under 24dB. You can get a cheap Mad Dog 120mm & 80mm fan for half the price and 24dB & 23dB and it moves about the same amount of air.

http://www.mdmm.com/spec.php?productid=88 
http://www.mdmm.com/spec.php?productid=86 


Also, I've tried both exhaust and intake fan configurations, with the Radio Shack 80mm fan. I don't use the exhaust method because higher air pressure (intake method) from inside pushes the hot air out anyway. The exhaust configuration is useless. It lowered the internal temp of my computer less than 1 degree. By blowing in cooler air, it lowered the internal temp by ~6 degrees. A quieter fan will not be as effective but I can't use the Radio Shack fan during a movie or listening to music anyway because it's too loud.


----------



## hiker

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.


Some of you have mentioned that you were going to use the Mechatronics Fan Mounts here . I can't see how those would work in a wooden A/V cabinet. In fact I don't see how they work in a PC case either. Can someone explain.


If those mounts won't work in ¾ in. plywood, what other mounts could I use for 120mm fan that would help reduce vibration noise? I thought of using a rubber gasket between fan frame and the cabinet but can't find anything pre-made like that.


What size hole do you cut in cabinet for 120mm fan? The biggest hole saw I have is 4¼ in., which seems about right.


Has anyone used the 3-Speed Fan Cable here ? And how does it reduce the voltage, by resistors?


----------



## Augmont




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDnut05* /forum/post/11895317
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I can use the usb connection on the back of my D* h20 to power a 12 volt fan? Right now I have it connected to a wall wart but, I don't like the idea of it being plugged in all the time. I would like for it to come on only when the equipment is on. I don't have any plugs on the back of my equipment or a 12 volt trigger to connected it to. Any ideas?



I'm curious too if anyone knows. I know they make notebook chill pads that the power comes from the notebook's USB. My only question whether the D*HR20 still passes power out of the USB even when it's in standby mode and thus your fan will still be on all the time. Anybody have a notebook chill pad to test?


----------



## hiker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Augmont* /forum/post/12056973
> 
> 
> I'm curious too if anyone knows. I know they make notebook chill pads that the power comes from the notebook's USB. My only question whether the D*HR20 still passes power out of the USB even when it's in standby mode and thus your fan will still be on all the time. Anybody have a notebook chill pad to test?



I tested on both HR20-100 and HR20-700 and USB fan stays on all the time. That's what you want with a DVR since standby only shuts off the A/V outputs and front panel lights and results in only about a 1 watt power savings while generating virtually the same amount of heat.


----------



## johnmw1

OK Guys,


First post so be gentle. I have just read this whole very interesting thread as I find myself in the same position in regards to wanting to add some sort of cooling to my AV enclosure.


Now straight up guys I'm very confused by what I actually need. Out of all of this discussion the one thing I don't want is it to be running the fans 24/7, to me I would just prefer not to have something running all the time unless absolutely necessary. Probably something that either comes on as the temp rises or when I actually turn the amp on. The amp will only be running when playing the dvd player for movies or music.


The other important bit of information is that I'm in Australia and whatever piece of electronic stuff that I buy needs to suit our voltage of 240V.


Now onto the cooling part of it. I had toyed with the idea of just taking the back off from the unit all together, but I'm guessing really that is not a good idea because of dust etc, what do you think?


I have only had this unit delivered to me yesterday and I have it set up in the workshop waiting to do the cut outs on the back.


The two different brands of fan that I have been looking at are Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan SFF21E and the Noctua NF-S12-/1200 and both seem to be highly recommended, what do you reckon?


As you will see from the added photos I think the amp (Onkyo 875) will be on it's own in one side of the unit and the rest of the gear will be on the other side. The other equipment being a Panasonic DVD recorder, Foxtel Satellite box, and a regular Pioneer DVD player. And in the narrow opening in the middle I will have an Xbox360 or PS3 if I can ever make up my mind.


In the last picture with the amp in it I had intended to have the amp sitting on the bottom of the unit but the knuckle on the hinge interferes with the width of it so I have had to have this silly bottom shelf about 75mm from the bottom, not the best looking, but better to find out now rather than later. The two empty holes will be for the centre channel and the sub woofer.


So without further waffling from me what should I be looking at? Do I need to cut some vents in the front along the toespace to allow cool air to be drawn in, or could I drill some holes in the bottom at the back corner to try and create some sort of chimney effect. Or do I forget all that because I will still have to cut some fairly big cutouts for cabling and hooking up of all the gear?


Cheers

John


----------



## dantelope

Wow, *thank you!* I just bought a large entertainment center with beautiful glass doors and cherry wood all around that makes for a pretty visual but a _horrible_ heat dissipater. I plan to put an A/V receiver, DVD player, and a Motorola DVR in my left equipment tower right now, and eventually plan to install an HTPC and perhaps some other equipment (although all of that will be placed on the right tower).


So needless to say I've been searching for ways to get the heat out. Right now I am planning to do the following, based primarily on Grim's postings:


(1) Purchase a single Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D and a 110VAC-to-12VDC converter

(2) Install the fan at the top of the left tower

(3) Pray that I can't hear it and that it gets the heat out.


Having said that, a couple of questions:


First, I am not planning to have any specific "intake" fan or port. I figure it's not air-tight and so air will come in naturally, but the installed fan will pull the heat out. *Does that make sense, or do I need to worry about an intake?* I'm hoping that if I find out the air flow isn't good enough that I can address it at that time, but....


Second, the back of my center is 1/8" backing material -- not exactly a solid footing for a fan. I was thinking I may need to build a makeshift rig to hold it in place, but I figured I'd ask the more experienced folks -- *how do I mount this thing*? If necessary, I _could_ mount it to the tower on the right side rather than on the back side -- then I'd be going through nice solid wood into an open area of the center. However, that's a last choice for me as it would be visible and I hate to operate on the center's good looks.


Your help greatly appreciated.


Dan


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dantelope* /forum/post/12164448
> 
> 
> Wow, *thank you!* I just bought a large entertainment center with beautiful glass doors and cherry wood all around that makes for a pretty visual but a _horrible_ heat dissipater. I plan to put an A/V receiver, DVD player, and a Motorola DVR in my left equipment tower right now, and eventually plan to install an HTPC and perhaps some other equipment (although all of that will be placed on the right tower).
> 
> 
> So needless to say I've been searching for ways to get the heat out. Right now I am planning to do the following, based primarily on Grim's postings:
> 
> 
> (1) Purchase a single Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D and a 110VAC-to-12VDC converter
> 
> (2) Install the fan at the top of the left tower
> 
> (3) Pray that I can't hear it and that it gets the heat out.
> 
> 
> Having said that, a couple of questions:
> 
> 
> First, I am not planning to have any specific "intake" fan or port. I figure it's not air-tight and so air will come in naturally, but the installed fan will pull the heat out. *Does that make sense, or do I need to worry about an intake?* I'm hoping that if I find out the air flow isn't good enough that I can address it at that time, but....
> 
> 
> Second, the back of my center is 1/8" backing material -- not exactly a solid footing for a fan. I was thinking I may need to build a makeshift rig to hold it in place, but I figured I'd ask the more experienced folks -- *how do I mount this thing*? If necessary, I _could_ mount it to the tower on the right side rather than on the back side -- then I'd be going through nice solid wood into an open area of the center. However, that's a last choice for me as it would be visible and I hate to operate on the center's good looks.
> 
> 
> Your help greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Dan



Dan,


Your setup is like mine. I have a single intake at the top (I too thought there would be plenty of ways for air to get in: around the doors, cable hole at the bottom, etc).

I mounted my fan into the 1/8" plywood/veneer backing. I had my wife hold a block of wood larger than the hole I was cutting with the hole saw on the other side of the plywood while I cut so it didn't sheer/rip as I went through.

I drilled four holes where the fan mounts sat. I think I picked up longer screws and used those round metal things (not washers; these aren't flat) from the hardware store used to dress up screws (they also prevent the screw from damaging the wood in any way); I wish I knew what they were called...

I have a single 80mm fan throttled down to like 4 volts and its worked great for 2 years.


----------



## johnmw1

I think you call them cup washers.










Cheers

John


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dantelope* /forum/post/12164448
> 
> 
> Wow, *thank you!*First, I am not planning to have any specific "intake" fan or port. I figure it's not air-tight and so air will come in naturally, but the installed fan will pull the heat out.



Conversely, you can also say, "...it's not air-tight and so air will go out naturally, but the installed intake fan will pull cooler air in."


In an open environment (like mine), I've objectively proven in my scenario that the intake route is >90% more efficient. This is because I can immediately force induce cooler air directly at the components - providing immediate cooling. The exhaust method will suck out both old warm air and new cooler air that just came in. You cannot direct which air to suck out and loose 90% of the efficiency.


An analogy is a turbo or supercharged engine. The charger force induces more air into the engine than would a naturally aspirated engine, thereby creating more power.


In a closed environment, I'm not too peculiar about intake or exhaust because air in = air out. But if I compare it to a forced induced engine, I still think the intake route is more effective. Also, with an exhaust method, the distance between the hot circuit board and the exhaust creates inefficiencies because if the exhaust was at the top, hot air will have cooled a bit by the time it reaches the top. You are therefore not sucking out the hottest air.


I believe that if you could place the exhaust next to the circuit board, then the air in = air out and the intake/exhaust method yields the same results.


But the reality is that it is easier direct cooler air directly at the components than it is to place an exhaust where it needs to be in order to be effective.


I'd love to upload a video to show the difference between intake and exhaust on my thermometer, but it takes minutes for the temp to move.


----------



## yojimbo 74

Guys like most here the heat is bothersome,so much to the point it killed the ole xbox360.The center is a beautiful piece that I would like to do minimal cutting to. also I was considering using the usb ports on the console and HD DVD player to power some fans to ease the install.Is this even a good Idea?do they make a strong enough fan in usb format to move the air?Thanx for advice guys...my 2nd nub post tee hee.


----------



## yamahaSHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *a_ok2me* /forum/post/12166016
> 
> 
> Conversely, you can also say, "...it's not air-tight and so air will go out naturally, but the installed intake fan will pull cooler air in."
> 
> 
> In an open environment (like mine), I've objectively proven in my scenario that the intake route is >90% more efficient. This is because I can immediately force induce cooler air directly at the components - providing immediate cooling. The exhaust method will suck out both old warm air and new cooler air that just came in. You cannot direct which air to suck out and loose 90% of the efficiency.
> 
> 
> An analogy is a turbo or supercharged engine. The charger force induces more air into the engine than would a naturally aspirated engine, thereby creating more power.
> 
> 
> In a closed environment, I'm not too peculiar about intake or exhaust because air in = air out. But if I compare it to a forced induced engine, I still think the intake route is more effective. Also, with an exhaust method, the distance between the hot circuit board and the exhaust creates inefficiencies because if the exhaust was at the top, hot air will have cooled a bit by the time it reaches the top. You are therefore not sucking out the hottest air.
> 
> 
> I believe that if you could place the exhaust next to the circuit board, then the air in = air out and the intake/exhaust method yields the same results.
> 
> 
> But the reality is that it is easier direct cooler air directly at the components than it is to place an exhaust where it needs to be in order to be effective.
> 
> 
> I'd love to upload a video to show the difference between intake and exhaust on my thermometer, but it takes minutes for the temp to move.




I don't agree with the SC/TC analogy. If you want to compare with a car, you should look at the radiator which pulls air through the radiator as the air does not get broken up/turbulant. An engine is a closed environment which has an intake tract directing the air where it needs to go (not to mention a SC/TC heats up the air).


Depending on how you setup your coolng chambers within a cabinet, I would much rather use an exhaust fan than an intake fan. You definitely do not want a straight path as that would cause the intake and exhaust to go from point-to-point.


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yamahaSHO* /forum/post/12214932
> 
> 
> I don't agree with the SC/TC analogy. If you want to compare with a car, you should look at the radiator which pulls air through the radiator as the air does not get broken up/turbulant. An engine is a closed environment which has an intake tract directing the air where it needs to go (not to mention a SC/TC heats up the air).
> 
> 
> Depending on how you setup your coolng chambers within a cabinet, I would much rather use an exhaust fan than an intake fan. You definitely do not want a straight path as that would cause the intake and exhaust to go from point-to-point.



Not sure where you're in disagreement with me. With an intake route, you can direct the air where it needs to go. In an open environment, this concept applies. I first tried the exhaust route and all it did was suck out new air that just came in. You cannot tell the fan to suck out only the old hot air and ignore the new cooler air that just came in.


I'll try to post a video of the difference within the next few hours.


----------



## miata

I'm not sure that it makes a big difference as long as the system is closed with a single entrance and exit. Theoretically, pushing air into the cabinet allows you to push more air when the fan has the umph to create higher pressure. However, a fan that powerful is likely to be a noise problem.


Many components have a front to rear airflow. In practice, it often works out better to pull air from the top rear, front to rear. It is convenient to put the fan behind the top most component. Many people do not want to put a fan in front of the bottom most component. Also, whether you are pushing or pulling a lot of air you will probably want an air filter. Of course, the air filter needs to be at the entrance. It is often convenient to have the air filter at the bottom of the cabinet -- usually built into the floor/bottom shelf.


----------



## yamahaSHO

I just don't agree with the engine NA/SC/TC analogy... I'm a car guy first, as well as a boosted car guy




















I know in my setup, I can run it with just an exhaust fan. In each opening, there is a shelf in the middle. It seals against the back. As long as a hole/vent is under the shelf and the exhaust fan is above, then it should not suck out nothing but fresh air. In fact, this helps cool components on both shelves.


----------



## a_ok2me

I made a couple videos showing the difference between the intake and exhaust in an open enclosure. I built the cabinet allowing for a fan at the bottom and I have a screen in the back to allow for ventilation while still blocking out dust. I had to shrink the clips (bad quality) hoping I could upload it, but it's still too large to upload. If someone can host it for me that would be great, or PM your email and I can send the clips. However, I was able to attach a picture of a section of the cabinet. The video will only focus on the temp sensor because you can't read the numbers if I zoom out.


I did 4 tests, the first two where the room temp was controlled at about 70F. There wasn't much of a temp difference between the inner cabinet and the room, so the intake method resulted in a temp drop of 2 degrees while the exhaust method did not drop the temp. I then opened the windows and allowed the temp inside and out of the cabinet to stabilize at the same levels between each test. The intake method resulted in an 8.3F drop while the exhaust was less than half at 3.7F. Results would probably vary if the fan was at the top or back.


----------



## AV TechnologyGuy

Yes, Ative Thermal Management or Middle Atlantic are excellent options for cabinet cooling. Just make sure that a discrete forced path for the air to flow "through" the components is in place. It can get tricky. If possible, hold or suspend within view, a piece of dangling thread at various points along the path to verify it is flowing correctly.


----------



## bbyf16

hey guys, i know this is a lot to ask for but if you guys could just help me out, it would be much appreciated. i just bought an onkyo 875 receiver and from what i've been reading, its a beast when it comes to heat output. So right now, my equipment consists of onkyo 875 receiver, toshiba hd a3 hd dvd player, SA 4250 cable box, xbox 360, and a ps3. I need to buy a new stand or rack or whatever since the onkyo weighs around 55 pounds. At the same time, i need to cool my receiver down. I'm figuring the xbox and ps3 should be ok since i plan on putting them both on top shelf vertically. I plan on having the receiver on the bottom. Does anyone have any suggestions on which stand/rack to get? I need a minimum of 8" clearance for the receiver. If you guys could just help me on selecting a stand and a suitable cooling setup (can build it myself if needed, just need the overall idea). And hopefully, it should cost less than $300. Thanks a lot for the help guys.


----------



## tomkat5714

Hi guys, newer AV geek here, but very techinically inclinded and a DIY'er.


I wanted to add at least one fan to my system to keep my Onkyo 605 cool. It's housed in a retail purchased cabinet with the bottom and top shelf (adjustable) and glass front doors, the rear is solid execpt for a 1.5X4 cable hole at each shelf and a 1x8 hole at the very top. Currently have the Onkyo 605 on the top shelf in the lowest position and it has 5+ inches clearances to top of the cabinet. The 605 does not have a switched outlet and I really want the fan to come on with the AV rec.


Here's what a coworker and I came up with that would be temp controlled.


Industrial supply site- $36-remote thermostat, 25a, 90-105*F +/-5* points
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?r...100&Nav=temp11 

and

any AC powered fan. I have found those from $20-$60.


After reading here I do not think I want this setup as the possible noise could be a problem and no way to adjust fan speed.


Now I want to do this with a DC powered fan. Do you think I could just use the adjustable AC-DC adapter everyone metions at RS and connect that to the thermostat at Omega above to a DC fan like the 80 or 120mm Synth 8db model? Costs on this is around $76+ S&H. Is there another way, cheaper?


----------



## hiker

tomkat5714,

What I installed and recommend for the least costly, easiest, most reliable and quietest solution is to get one or more of these 800 rpm fans:
http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html 

and a power supply:
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html 


I installed just one fan at the top back of my cabinet exhausting air by using a 4¼" hole saw. I just leave the fan on all the time since it consumes very little power and it is totally silent. Be sure you get the 800 rpm model. Don't worry about a thermostat or noise. and it should be good for the rated lifetime of more than 17 years.


PS Get $5 off through Dec 31 with this checkout coupon *fiveoff*


One more recommendation - get one or two of these fan grills to protect fingers:
http://store.yahoo.com/yhst-24067115...556041153.html 

I put one on the outside and one on the inside, but I would at minimum put one on the outside.


----------



## bmmyers

I just purchased and installed the Cool Components cabinet vent fans (PK-CV1-BLK) and temp controllers (TC-AC). Cost me $280. My cabinet is split into two sections so I put a fan and a temp controller in each section. The fan is exhausting from the top. The temp controller is mounted along the top in the opposite corner. There is space around the doors to pull air in, but I also made a square cut out in a bottom corner and made a filter for it. I used a switch plate (the kind used for large, flat switches) and a piece of furnace/AC register filter material. Looks good and works great. Very quiet. My only complaint is that the fans don't turn off even when the cabinets are at room temperature if the fans are operated at 12V. With the voltage set to 9V the temp controller works fine, but the fan's top rpm is reduced. I attached a couple of pics.


----------



## tomkat5714

Today on my way home I got to tinking about the junk in my closet. So tonite after the miss's and little one went to bed, I went digging. I found an light up (red) 80mm case fan I had bought for an unfinished PC mod and I had an old ac-dc selectable adapter. The fan is loud at a full 12V at 7.5v it's not bad and hell you can't beat the price of something you forgot you had.










I had looked at that brand of fans and that website at work today. I will probably get a new quieter fan. I still would like it to come on/off with amp and/or temp. To me it's no sense to run it when it's not needed and I'm too lazy to flick a switch and can't rely on others (wife) to always plug it in or turn it on.


I'm attaching a pic of my system, so all can see my setup.


----------



## johnmw1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tomkat5714* /forum/post/12285214
> 
> 
> Today on my way home I got to tinking about the junk in my closet. So tonite after the miss's and little one went to bed, I went digging. I found an light up (red) 80mm case fan I had bought for an unfinished PC mod and I had an old ac-dc selectable adapter. The fan is loud at a full 12V at 7.5v it's not bad and hell you can't beat the price of something you forgot you had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had looked at that brand of fans and that website at work today. I will probably get a new quieter fan. I still would like it to come on/off with amp and/or temp. To me it's no sense to run it when it's not needed and I'm too lazy to flick a switch and can't rely on others (wife) to always plug it in or turn it on.
> 
> 
> I'm attaching a pic of my system, so all can see my setup.




Hi Tomkat,


For what it's worth I'm doing the same thing at the moment as you, and I have settled on using the mcubed miniNG controller.

There is a very good thread worth reading found in my next post as it will not allow me to post a URL and it has all you will want to know in it. Don't mind my dumb assed questions towards the end of it.










Cheers

John


----------



## johnmw1

 http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401717 is the link I did try and post. It's from your cousins across the big pond.


Cheers

John


----------



## tomkat5714

Across the pond, that's funny. My company has a division over in the UK and recently 3 of the guys came over for training. We all had a great time when we took them out for dinner and drinks and then to the horse races. We also have a rep in Melbourne, AUS that visited a while back. I talk with both groups on a weekly bases.I would love to get over there and visit.


I think the controller would be a great. Would this work with the US 110-120VAC power?


I still haven't found much info on having my amp trigger the fans. I never thought about the importance of having a switched outlet on the back of the amp when I bought it.


There's an old saying that applies here I guess. "There's more than one way to skin a cat" I'll figure something out eventually.


Cheers Pal, and have a pint or two for me if you drink.


----------



## johnmw1

G'Day Tomkat,


I'm certainly no expert as you could see by my stupid questions, but in regards to the controller working I don't see why not, after all by the time the power gets to the miniNG it is already converted to 12V DC, but hey perhaps someone else may back me up on that one.


I meant to say in my other post to you that I also have an Onkyo amp, but I went for the 875 which pumps out a fair amount of heat by all accounts.


There is a support forum for the Mcubed if you want to post a question, I myself have just asked if you can run four fans of the miniNG using Y cables.
http://www.t-balancer.com/english/support.htm 


I too have looked for somewhere in the US to buy this controller as I get far better value for our Aussie dollar than compared to the British Pound, so far I have found nowhere.










I am about to order my Mcubed as I want it shipped here before Xmas so I can have it all up and running by then.


Let us know how you get on.


Cheers

John


----------



## sender_name

I was looking for cooling options for my cabinet, and i found this on Newegg...no one has mentioned it yet and it is a MUCH cheaper solution to these $200 set ups...


SilenX IXA-FCEX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999167 


It is an AC-DC converter w/ 4 pc fan connectors, 1 4pin molex and 3 3pin output lines each with their own speed controller and a blue led to show power for each...If you don't use 3-wire fans the blue power indicator lights will not light up.


It is currently on sale for $5 off..


----------



## a_ok2me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sender_name* /forum/post/12335401
> 
> 
> I was looking for cooling options for my cabinet, and i found this on Newegg...no one has mentioned it yet and it is a MUCH cheaper solution to these $200 set ups...
> 
> 
> SilenX IXA-FCEX
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999167
> 
> 
> It is an AC-DC converter w/ 4 pc fan connectors, 1 4pin molex and 3 3pin output lines each with their own speed controller and a blue led to show power for each...If you don't use 3-wire fans the blue power indicator lights will not light up.
> 
> 
> It is currently on sale for $5 off..



Good find.


----------



## tomkat5714

As anyone thought about this one. It does seem a little noisey but might be liveable for some. Prise is good. Seems like a sheet of air would provide good even coverage.

http://http://www.newegg.com/Product...82E16800887011 


I do not think I will go with this but will stick with the standard 12vDC case fan like the S-flex. What I want to do is trigger it from the amp (Onkyo 605= no switched outlet) or will probably wind up doing some sort of temp based control. Just can't decide on temp controler. I thought about getting a PC multi fan controler with temp and then it would have a nice LCD that might show fan speed and temp. I could put the controller in a project type box and wire via the plug adapters at Radioshack and a AC-DC convertor. Thoughts, comments, suggestions?


----------



## sender_name

Well, time was there was nothing more than a vcr and a tape deck in the entertainment cabinet...But I have a 100w x7 receiver/amplifier, an oppo dvd player, a cable box, a tivo series 3hd, an vcr and a Belkin Pure av power center all in my cabinet. It was always scorching when I would open the front door, and the top of the cabinet was always warm to the touch. Soo..i sought a quiet cheap way to cool it all...in comes the SilenX IXA-FCEX External 4 Channel Fan Controller 











it controlls up to 4 fans (pc) and has an AC adapter. It is plugged into one of the ac outlets on the receiver so whenever the receiver is on they turn on. I mounted 2 ENERMAX UC-12EB 120mm Case Fans that are SOOOO quiet. The controller has speed control, but even on high you cannot hear these fans.











you can see the fans at the top back in the cabinets. I can't stress how quiet they are, and as a result the Receiver is COOL to the touch on the top and the Tivo is the same. It really is amazing, and prob adds a lot of life to the electronics...and my wife was happy b/c it is free heat in the winter










Oh and the stop sign is there so my daughter doesn't continually open and close the dvd player and put different discs in, and turn the receiver up to 99


----------



## yamahaSHO

I use the same SilenX fan PSU/controller on my setup.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sender_name* /forum/post/12743609
> 
> 
> But I have a 100w x7 receiver/amplifier, an oppo dvd player, a cable box, a tivo series 3hd, an vcr and a Belkin Pure av power center all in my cabinet.



Ahhh a VCR! I still keep one in the living room entertainment center but haven't used it in five years.







I was thinking about tossing it recently.


I previously had one 80mm Arctic Silencer exhaust fan at the top of my tower, but since adding a PS3 to the cabinet it becomes an oven when it's on. I cut two additional 80mm holes at the different shelves in the cabinet and installed Silenx fans as inputs. All three run continuously. Dropped the Top shelf temp from 98F to 80F with the PS3 at full bore.


----------



## AV Enthusiast

I have an expensive custom oak cabinet in my living room and my wife insists on it looking nice and being quiet. I have a fair amount of quality A/V equipment inside that was getting too warm, so I started looking for a long lasting quality solution. I found a professionally made fan system at a large well known online retailer and catalog company (will not mention the name) for just over $500. It did look well made and appeared that it would last a long time, but when I hooked it up I found that it sounded like a bathroom ventilator. This alone was a deal killer. Fortunately, I had the common sense to test it before permanently installing it. I also noticed that whenever the fan cycled, there was some interference in the A/V equipment. Needless to say, I started looking again and sent their poor design back to them. I happened on to a site with what appeared to be a very promising product at less than half the price "cabinetcool.com". After talking with the guy, (I had already been burned once) I got the product and tested it before installing it. Surprise - It didn't sound like a bathroom ventilator and there was circuitry to eliminate the A/V interference. It had it's own thermostat and only ran when the temperature increased above where I set the thermostat. The fan was not anything like the fans that I could get at Radio Shack. This was clearly a very very high quality fan designed to last. I installed the "CabinetCool.com" product and was pleased with the instructions. It's doing a fantastic job and I don't think I will ever have to replace it. I've checked the temperature inside the cabinet and it's doing a great job of keeping the temperature down. Nice insurance for my equipment. My wife is also very pleased with the sound level as am I.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV Enthusiast* /forum/post/12764926
> 
> 
> I installed the "CabinetCool.com" product and was pleased with the instructions. It's doing a fantastic job and I don't think I will ever have to replace it.
























>$250 for a SINGLE FAN???


One good 120mm DC 60cfm 18dba fan (inaudible) = ~$14->$30

One 600ma AC->DC adapter OR the SilenX all-in-1 controller posted above= ~$17->$30

Electricity to run 24/7 for a year = maybe $5


Maybe it's just me....


Since you have to do the hard part which is cutting the hole, in either case, what are you really paying for?...a thermostat???


FWIW:

The controller in your link is nothing more than an attic fan thermostat. You could pick those up on the cheap and couple that with any AC fan. That link is a raping.



What you do with your money is your choice and I sure that solution probably works, but I'm still flabbergasted.


----------



## yamahaSHO

I think I spent all of $50 (shipping included) for 4 Yate Loon fans and the SilenX fan controller/PSU.


I orginally found some "vents to make it look more clean and professional, but then found that they cause noise. I nice perfect circle hole and properly placed fan look good as well. My test fans (Panaflo 120mm fans) were LOUD, but they were left over fans.


I actually can't hear anything and it keeps and Xbox 360 cool with the door closed.


----------



## tatanka01

If you're really into DIY, this is an easy problem to solve "on the cheap."


I bought a couple 12V fans from Mouser and built a little speed controller using less than $10 worth of parts. The speed controller is adjustable, but also has a thermocouple that sits on top of the receiver. The hotter the receiver gets, the faster the fans run, automatically. I power it from a "junk box" 12V supply I had laying around that plugs into the switched outlet on the back of my Yamaha RX-V1800.


I have less than 1" of clearance around the receiver in my "rack." The fans are mounted in a door that encloses the back part of the receiver compartment. I bought a cheap ($8) indoor/outdoor digital thermometer from Target and set the outdoor probe on top of the receiver. The highest I've ever seen it get is about 110 degrees F. Usually it runs in the high-90's and low 100's; well below spec for commercial grade components.


It works very well, and I spent less than $50 for the parts. Labor of love, though, it took a full day to put it all together.


----------



## dalesd

In a previous life, I did some work designing rackmount enclosures . They were good sized, like 10U or 12U (some were smaller, some were full cabinets). They were about the size of one of these:









[image courtesy of Grimdeath]


They had their own ac/dc switching power supplies and a big rack of cards and fans for cooling. The fans often had filters. Sometimes just air filters, sometimes emi/rfi honeycomb filters. They always had finger guards.


Pressurized cooling was generally preferred. This means fans on the inlet, blowing air in to the enclosure. This keeps a slight positive pressure inside the enclosure which helps keep dust (and other unwanted stuff) out.


The other thing to consider is where the air will flow. The enclosures had sheet metal ducting to ensure the air would flow over the cards and power supply. It's probably not critical to have ducting in a TV stand (just getting any airflow through there will probably make enough difference to keep the components happy), but if you can keep it in mind, it can make your cooling even more effective.


----------



## gotcha640

From another hobby where we want to keep things cool and keep the dust out, if you have the fans blowing in and have a filter on the back side, you will keep almost all dust out of your enclosure.


----------



## brewster201

Hi there I used two variable speed 120mm Silverstone fans purchased at Tiger Direct for $16.00 each. These fans are very quiet and installed in simple wood mount(silicone pads). I made this to sit on top of my Anthem D2 and blends in perfect with the cabinet. These fans have washable foam screens mounted on top to prevent dirt from blowing in on my Anthem.


----------



## brewster201

Hi there here is different view


Thanks

Bruce


----------



## tatanka01

Here's my DIY fan project... Very inexpensive, but requires some soldering and construction skills.


I built a variable voltage regulator using an LM317. Here's the schematic (courtesy of National Semiconductor):










This is fed with a 12 volt "wall wart" power supply I had laying around (doesn't everyone have a box full of these?).


This was assembled on a small piece of 1/8" aluminum plate. There is a thermal washer between the voltage regulator and the plate just to keep any power off the aluminum. The aluminum acts as a heat sink, too, but it doesn't really get hot. The little potentiometer is glued down with hot glue.










The plate was drilled to fit a tiny plastic box. A hole in the box allows access to the "speed control."










Here it is, mounted in place with the 12 volt DC fans. This is the back panel for the receiver compartment on a rack I built out of 3/4" plywood. It's hinged and has a friction latch, so I can just "open the door" for access.










One modification I made to the circuit: The fixed resistor was replaced with a thermistor on an 18" wire. This is why you see two wires coming out of the control box. One is for power and the other goes to the thermistor. The thermistor lead sits on top of the receiver and as the receiver heats up, the fans run faster. So, I adjust the fans "cold" using the pot (6-7V seems good for these fans) and they'll speed up as things heat up. The power supply is plugged into the switched outlet on the back of the receiver, so it makes for a "no thinking required" installation once it's set up. I originally designed this for four fans (which is why they aren't spread out more). Turns out, two is enough.


Total cost for the parts, under $30 not including shipping, but keep in mind that I didn't buy a power supply. I might re-do this at some point in the future just to get quieter fans. The fans I used were the quietest "cheap" fans I could find and I can hear them when the receiver is turned down low. Any volume at all drowns them out.


----------



## jlwill

Well I am confused. Great arguments for pushing in the cool air and for pulling out the warm. I see some folks that appear to have both. I too will have a wood door enclosure running IR remote to cable box and a sony gd910. Also have a PS3.


I found this fan with thermostadt. Not sure that is neccessary. Any opinions?
http://arcticstreamcooling.com/catal...products_id=30 



Don't suppose we have a concensus?


----------



## yamahaSHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlwill* /forum/post/12883158
> 
> 
> Well I am confused. Great arguments for pushing in the cool air and for pulling out the warm. I see some folks that appear to have both. I too will have a wood door enclosure running IR remote to cable box and a sony gd910. Also have a PS3.
> 
> 
> I found this fan with thermostadt. Not sure that is neccessary. Any opinions?
> http://arcticstreamcooling.com/catal...products_id=30
> 
> 
> 
> Don't suppose we have a concensus?





My fans come on with my components... No need for me to have a t-stat. I also wanted to stay cheap since fans are cheap and other companies rape you on they price...


----------



## MarkRota

I am adding one or two quiet computer fans to my Onkyo 805 to help with the heat issue. Am thinking about the noctua NF-S12-800 which is supposed to be quiet. I can find fans but not the AC to 4 prong molex adapters locally. In the interest of time i am thinking of using one of many wall warts I have lying around the house. They all seem to have diferent ratings. For instance one shows:


output= 3.7vdc .35A and another

output= 11vdc 550ma


There are others as well. Can anyone advise what a 12V dc computer fan would need.


The noctura fan states:

Input Power 0,60 W




Input Current 0,05 A




Voltage Range 6-13 V




Thanks


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkRota* /forum/post/13065501
> 
> 
> I am adding one or two quiet computer fans to my Onkyo 805 to help with the heat issue. Am thinking about the noctua NF-S12-800 which is supposed to be quiet. I can find fans but not the AC to 4 prong molex adapters locally. In the interest of time i am thinking of using one of many wall warts I have lying around the house. They all seem to have diferent ratings. For instance one shows:
> 
> 
> output= 3.7vdc .35A and another
> 
> output= 11vdc 550ma
> 
> 
> There are others as well. Can anyone advise what a 12V dc computer fan would need.
> 
> 
> The noctura fan states:
> 
> Input Power 0,60 W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Input Current 0,05 A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Voltage Range 6-13 V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks




That fan draws 50mA at 12 volts DC.

Both warts you listed are more than capable of sourcing the current requirement. However, at 3.7v the fan will hardly be spinning at all.

The 11v wart will work fine. Or, spend the $13 and get a wart that lets you select the voltage you want so you can fine tune the fan for airflow and quietness.


----------



## clouser2k7

Do you guys think this adapter would work to hook up a 12volt fan to AC current?


It's intended to hook up a standard computer hard drive (4 pin molex) to AC current. Any reason why I couldn't power a few fans from it?


12V + 5V DC to AC POWER SUPPLY UNIT for Hard Disk Drive


Standard 5V 12V voltage for 3.5" Hard Drive

Input : 100V-240V AC, 50/60 Hz, MAY 1.5A 75-100VA

Output : 5V DC, 2A ; 12V DC, 2A


----------



## tomkat5714

clouser2k7

That will work. However, I would suggest going to Wal-Mart or RS and getting an adjustable voltage power supply. The one you show pictured outputs 12v and 5v. I can tell you from experience that your not moving much air at 5v and at 12v you are running full blast. If you have a quiet fan then just run it at full speed other wise 7v seems to be a good mix of sound vs airflow.


----------



## fletchmath

I got some good info from this thread, so I thought I'd post my results.


I got a PS3 for BD viewing, and quickly found that it's fan went bonkers a few minutes into a movie --- the PS3 definitely doesn't like being in an enclosed cabinet.


After reading posts in this thread, I got the SilenX 4-fan controller and two Scythe "slipstream" 120mm 1600 rpm fans. Cut some holes in the back of my cabinet and mounted both fans to exhaust (they sit on either side of the wire hole. The PS3 is on the top shelf of a two-shelf area in a TV stand). The fans are huge (I've put 120mm fans in a PC case before, but just wasn't remembering how profoundly large they are...







)


I thought that perhaps I'd need to add a partition of some sort to force airflow to come across the PS3, but it hasn't been necessary. The shelf the PS3 sits on stops short of the back wall of the cabinet, and I was afraid air would just flow up from the lower level and out the fans, and the air around the PS3 would just sit there. There is clearly enough airflow past the PS3, though --- I watched an hour's worth of a movie with the cabinet closed and the PS3 was cool at the end, and the PS3 fan never started roaring.


The scythe fans are set to about half-speed on the controller, and are barely audible with the rest of the system turned *off*. They are audible in the sense that if you turn them off, you realize that there was background noise before. I'm pleased by the sound level; the PS3 fan sounds like a train going by when it comes on. This is an improvement.


A hilarious side-effect; After I installed the fans, hooked everything up and tested, I discovered that my Dish DVR was acting like someone was constantly hitting buttons on the remote. I determined that it wasn't my remote that caused it (the dvr was changing channels constantly!). As a stab in the dark, I took off the RF antenna that the DVR has on the back (I'm using an IR remote, not the RF one). That cured the problem. The fan controller or more likely the fan motors are sending out an RF signal at just the right frequency to control my VIP-722! Never saw that one coming.


Finally, I'd never bought from FrozenCPU before (NewEgg was out of stock). I commend them --- a really fast, pleasant experience. Here are the products I used.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/64...1225SL12H.html 
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/59..._IXA-FCEX.html 


Cheers, and thanks for all the helpful posts.

Ken


----------



## DMAN11

Fletch, this looks like a cool setup. Am I to understand that you have the fans plugged into the controller,,,,and the controller plugged into the wall,,,, and you're good to go? With speed controls and all, without having to get converter this and converter that? If so, this is what I'm gonna do if necessary.


Which leads me to my question for all of you guys out there. I am building a wall unit for my LCD (50" Sony, if that matters), receiver, DVD player, and 360. The dvd, 360, and receiver are all going to be on open shelves with like 6-8 inches of space in back and 10-12 inches of space on top with 3-4 inches of space on sides. I figure this will give them enough ventilationfor those units, am I right? However the TV will be in between shelves with about 3 inches of space on top and the 2 sides, and about 4-6 inches behind it.


Will I need to put a fan or 2 for ventilation on the TV? Or do you guys think it will get enough airflow and will be ok as is?


I thought if necessary, I could put 1 fan on the shelf the tv sits on, and 1 on the shelf above to create a draft like effect behind the tv for cooling.



Thanks for any and all help......


DMAN


----------



## Euclid537

For fan mods, here's a VERY cool little contraption.

I was cutting flips when I found it the other day.

It's a temperature controlled 0/1 switch that is open until it reaches 115F degrees at which point it closes, completing the circuit.


Basically, if you wire this in series with your DC fan your fan will be off at all times UNLESS your unit is above 115*, at which point the fan will be ON until the temperature drops back below that mark.


Do a google search for Selco CA115


----------



## fletchmath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMAN11* /forum/post/13213316
> 
> 
> Fletch, this looks like a cool setup. Am I to understand that you have the fans plugged into the controller,,,,and the controller plugged into the wall,,,, and you're good to go? With speed controls and all, without having to get converter this and converter that? If so, this is what I'm gonna do if necessary.



Yes, that's right. Slightly better is to plug the controller into a switched outlet on your AV receiver or some other component, so that the fans only power on when your system is on.


Ken


----------



## Euclid537




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fletchmath* /forum/post/13217071
> 
> 
> Yes, that's right. Slightly better is to plug the controller into a switched outlet on your AV receiver or some other component, so that the fans only power on when your system is on.
> 
> 
> Ken



See my method above, fixes all of these issues.


----------



## fletchmath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Euclid537* /forum/post/13217115
> 
> 
> See my method above, fixes all of these issues.



Well, I installed my fans to cool a PS3, with the purpose of keeping the PS3's own fan from spinning up. When the PS3's fan is in "first gear" it's reasonably quiet, but when it hits third gear, it is extremely loud.


So, I don't really want my exhaust fans waiting until the cabinet gets hot before they come on; I want them on as soon as the PS3 is. That way, the PS3 stays quiet while I watch movies.


----------



## DMAN11

Thanks Fletch, and Euclid, that switch sounds pretty good. But how about my ultimate question....


I am building a wall unit for my LCD (50" Sony, if that matters), receiver, DVD player, and 360. The dvd, 360, and receiver are all going to be on open shelves with like 6-8 inches of space in back and 10-12 inches of space on top with 3-4 inches of space on sides. I figure this will give them enough ventilationfor those units, am I right? However the TV will be in between shelves with about 3 inches of space on top and the 2 sides, and about 4-6 inches behind it.


Will I need to put a fan or 2 for ventilation on the TV? Or do you guys think it will get enough airflow and will be ok as is?


Thanks......


DMAN


----------



## sman113

All - Thanks for all the wonderful input in this thread. One last question that hasn't seemed to have been answered in a while - I am looking for a way to turn the fans on (likely via the 4 Channel Fan Controller since i want to install two intakes - one on each side of the cabinet) when the Receiver turns on. I have an Onkyo605 which doesnt have a switched outlet to plug into. I also dont think i want to do a temp-controlled switch because 1) no electrical experience and dont think these are "plug and play" and 2) price. So i think my only option is an IR or RF outlet (to be turned on by my yet-to-be-purchased Harmony remote. Does this sound right?


As for IR/RF outlets, this one looks simple enough, radio shack has an "Indoor/Outdoor Wireless AC Switch" that seems simple enough. Anyone have any recommendations?


Thanks again for all the information on this thread!


FYI - Here's the gear in my cabinet:


Verizon Fios HD DVR

Toshiba HD-A2 (likely to be replaced by a Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player soon!)

Xbox 360

Onkyo 605


Currently there's one 3" whole at the top center of the cabinet for wiring, and i cut another 6" x 2" square out from behind the Onkyo for more wiring options and air flow (obviously air flow didnt work since i am in this thread!).


----------



## yamahaSHO

 Here is what I use. My stereo has switched outlets on the back so I plugged it in there. When the stereo comes on, so do my fans.



I have an intake and exaust, as well as a fan blowing up underneath of the receiver. It stays very cool!


This picture is before I installed the lower intake fan.


----------



## tomkat5714




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sman113* /forum/post/13235579
> 
> 
> All - Thanks for all the wonderful input in this thread. One last question that hasn't seemed to have been answered in a while - I am looking for a way to turn the fans on (likely via the 4 Channel Fan Controller since i want to install two intakes - one on each side of the cabinet) when the Receiver turns on. I have an Onkyo605 which doesnt have a switched outlet to plug into. I also dont think i want to do a temp-controlled switch because 1) no electrical experience and dont think these are "plug and play" and 2) price. So i think my only option is an IR or RF outlet (to be turned on by my yet-to-be-purchased Harmony remote. Does this sound right?
> 
> 
> As for IR/RF outlets, this one looks simple enough, radio shack has an "Indoor/Outdoor Wireless AC Switch" that seems simple enough. Anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all the information on this thread!
> 
> 
> FYI - Here's the gear in my cabinet:
> 
> 
> Verizon Fios HD DVR
> 
> Toshiba HD-A2 (likely to be replaced by a Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player soon!)
> 
> Xbox 360
> 
> Onkyo 605
> 
> 
> Currently there's one 3" whole at the top center of the cabinet for wiring, and i cut another 6" x 2" square out from behind the Onkyo for more wiring options and air flow (obviously air flow didnt work since i am in this thread!).




I have the same receiver and will probably go with this solution I worked up. I know you said you didn't want it to be temp controlled but I beleive your reasoning for this was complexity and cost. I think my solution solves both.

First we could use this power supply:
http://www.jab-tech.com/12v-DC-Power...r-pr-3776.html 


It has a Molex connector on it that we could plug into this temp controller. UPDATE: Need more research this may be a themro only and not a controller.

http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAMA-...r-pr-3595.html 


Then plug the controller into the fan of your choice and place the temp probe on whatever component you would like or in our case clip it to the top of the 605. I would wrap the wires into some nice wire loom and tack to cornors of cabinet and mount the temp controller some where convenient. I think I figured total bill would be about $44.00 + shipping (includes 120mm Scythe fan, anti-vibe-gasket, and filter).


----------



## baltik

I am going to vent my built-in kitchen style cabinets outdoors using a short piece of laundry tubing (horizontally). Fans will be powered using the Onkyo's aux plug The fan will be in an exhaust configuration near the top and a hole at the bottom to draw in air - any thoughts on how to prevent moisture from getting inside the cabinets?


----------



## Johnla

Why do you think you even need to vent it going to outdoors? Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. And like you mention, preventing moisture from getting in and building up could be a real problem, and also one that may be near impossible to deal with without spending a lot of money. Besides if it really get so hot inside that cabinet that it needs to be vented to the outdoors, then it's probably time to consider routing some sort of a small dedicated A/C device just to the cabinet. Installing cooling fans and venting to the room itself, should provide all the circulation you will need to prevent overheating.


----------



## theboogins

I acquired a Pioneer Plasma with the external media box PDP4240. Love the TV put the media center fan is loud. Would it be thinkable to replace the loud fan with a noiseless fan?


Thanks.


JB


----------



## dwmoss

just wanted to thank you guys for this thread...


i installed 2 dc quiet fans from cpucoolers and a wal-mart ac to dc universal adapter and now my HK AVR is much cooler in the cabinet.


thanks again!!


dm


----------



## DMAN11

dwmoss, where did you say you got your quiet fans from? what is that website? or is it a store?


thanks.....dman11


----------



## dwmoss

i got my fans from coolerguys.com as mentioned in this thread i believe....


dm


----------



## TJ7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *baltik* /forum/post/13248772
> 
> 
> I am going to vent my built-in kitchen style cabinets outdoors using a short piece of laundry tubing (horizontally). Fans will be powered using the Onkyo's aux plug The fan will be in an exhaust configuration near the top and a hole at the bottom to draw in air - any thoughts on how to prevent moisture from getting inside the cabinets?



I was considdering a similar configuration into my attic. 2" PVC horizontally at the top of the cabinet with slices half way through at about 1" apart and painted black. Then run the PVC up and into the attic with an adapter to 4" and a remote fan triggered by the AVR. Like a muffler, the more bends the better and like a central vacuum system, you won't here the fan.


I will be puting the fan on a speed control to adjust CFMs and audibility.


----------



## gosurf

I am also going to add a fan or two to my cabinet to cool a new Onkyo 605, which gets very hot from what I have read. I am considering this fan - SilenX iXtrema Pro 120mm Case Fan from Frys (sorry, newb here and not allowed to post a URL yet - double secret probation) which seems to have an excellent cfm to noise ratio. I only have about 2 to 3 inches above the receiver so my question for those of you who have used fan cooling - Will it work with limited room above the receiver?


----------



## dexterblack

Is anyone familiar with the dmckenzie products one ebay? What is the quality and ustomer service like?


----------



## umtech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dexterblack* /forum/post/13294634
> 
> 
> Is anyone familiar with the dmckenzie products one ebay? What is the quality and ustomer service like?



I have bought several things from him and he has never let me down. He just completed a custom setup for my Onkyo 605 with 120mm fan that has a foam seal to seat on top of th Onkyo, and thermo control switch that I have set at 80 degrees that sits on top of the Onkyo and then it plugs into the wall. When the temp of the Onkyo unit finally hits 80 the fan comes on by itself and keeps it nice and cool, when the Onkyo unit shuts off and goes below 80 the fan stops. This guy is awesome and very reasonable. Chated with him on Thursday and Monday had the parts and they work fine. I have sent several people over to him to get a setup for this unit.


Here is what I bought that he customized for me to do what I wanted, just send him an email and tell hime what you need and he can get it done.

Item number: 360027476993


----------



## Mantas

Hi, guys:


I have an Onkyo 605. No closed cabinet, glass open shelves. I think the distance between the receiver and the next upper shelf is 5 cm.


Has anyone tried this one? Is it noisy?.

www.buyextras.com/evavcoblfanf.html 


As far as I understand, this fan only pulls out the hot air, and do not send fresh air (and dirt) inside the receiver.


It looks an easy solution.


Or is it better the coolerguys.com product: Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) (SFF21E) (SFF21F) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible ?


Comments?


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sender_name* /forum/post/12335401
> 
> 
> I was looking for cooling options for my cabinet, and i found this on Newegg...no one has mentioned it yet and it is a MUCH cheaper solution to these $200 set ups...
> 
> 
> SilenX IXA-FCEX
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999167
> 
> 
> It is an AC-DC converter w/ 4 pc fan connectors, 1 4pin molex and 3 3pin output lines each with their own speed controller and a blue led to show power for each...If you don't use 3-wire fans the blue power indicator lights will not light up.



I got one of these; hooked it up to three Zalman 120mm fans, works just fine except one channel had no LED, it's apparently part of the voltage drop so there's very little room to get the fan cranked down to a low enough speed to be completely quite. I'd move the fan to the other channel (since I only need three), but those LEDs are extremely bright; it's sorta nice having one less of them to deal with! Bottom line; it's a cheaply built controller but it does the job.


----------



## bayareakirk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SteVeO* /forum/post/9834118
> 
> 
> The fan I was looking at on the page is 8.7db...coolerguys.com/sff21.html




After reading this thread, I bought the cooler guys dual 120mm fan unit mentioned above (CabCool1202 Dual 120mm Fan Cooler Kit for Cabinet / Home Theaters w/Thermal Control: CABCOOL-2) with the upgrade to the Scythe SFlex fans you link to.


It seemed like a complete solution that is easy to install and quiet and changes speed depending on temperature. All for a very reasonable price.


It has proven to be everything but quiet. Both fans have a fairly loud clicking sound at any speed. The fans get great reviews for being quiet, but mine certainly are not. (By the way, I left a review for the fans to balance out the good reviews, and it hasn't shown up after a few days at coolerguys. They are responsive company though, so I have just emailed to see if they will replace or refund). The loudness is not as loud as a refrigerator, but louder than my comcast cable/dvr box when it's recording.


UPDATE: Coolerguys are cool guys. They responded and were very willing to trade out the fans. They said these can make noise at low speeds and not all fans do that. They also offered to send an updated speed controller they will be selling soon. It is full on above 86 degrees and full off otherwise. I wish they would not have offered an upgrade to a speaker that works worse in the kit that others, but they are fully dedicated to making it work for the customer.


----------



## kcrossley2

Does anyone know where I can get some 8-32 x 1 3/4" black machine screws to attach my fans to my entertainment center? I've tried Lowes, Home Depot, and Radio Shack. Internet companies have them, but they want to sell me thousands at a time.


Basically, the way this will work is I'll cut-out a hole for the 120mm fan, as well as four holes for the screws. The intake fan will be mounted underneath the bottom shelf. The exhaust fan will be mounted inside the cabinet, high on the right side, so it will be visible. I can't place the fan behind the cabinet, because of a sliding DVD drawer.



INTAKE FAN

Inside of cabinet floor

Grille

-----Cabinet-----

Rubber fan washer

Fan

Grille


EXHAUST FAN

Outside of cabinet side

Black Grille

-----Cabinet-----

Rubber fan washer

Fan

Grille


Thanks,

Kelly


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kcrossley2* /forum/post/13338874
> 
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get some 8-32 x 1 3/4" black machine screws to attach my fans to my entertainment center? I've tried Lowes, Home Depot, and Radio Shack. Internet companies have them, but they want to sell me thousands at a time.



Try a place like a well stocked ACE Hardware. Also if you are in or near a major city, look up "fasteners or industrial fasteners, or even industtial supplies" in the Yellow pages. Many industrial fastener suppy stores will sell small amounts to walk in customers. You might be surprised how many places that there are that have this sort of item. Also if you do have to buy a full box, a lot of times they are also offered in smaller amounts like 25 or 100. A full box of smaller amount like 25, should only be a couple of dollars.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/13339386
> 
> 
> Try a place like a well stocked ACE Hardware. Also if you are in or near a major city, look up "fasteners or industrial fasteners, or even industtial supplies" in the Yellow pages. Many industrial fastener suppy stores will sell small amounts to walk in customers. You might be surprised how many places that there are that have this sort of item. Also if you do have to buy a full box, a lot of times they are also offered in smaller amounts like 25 or 100. A full box of smaller amount like 25, should only be a couple of dollars.



While you don't need to use "fan screws" and can use anything you find at the hardware store, you will have issues with the head diameter and the fan grill; the larger heads will never seat in the small depression that the conventional fan screws are meant to lay in.

I did find one place on-line a while back that sold double length "fan screws", but they were from Canada and didn't wan't the hassle.


----------



## baltik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/13254080
> 
> 
> Why do you think you even need to vent it going to outdoors? Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. And like you mention, preventing moisture from getting in and building up could be a real problem, and also one that may be near impossible to deal with without spending a lot of money. Besides if it really get so hot inside that cabinet that it needs to be vented to the outdoors, then it's probably time to consider routing some sort of a small dedicated A/C device just to the cabinet. Installing cooling fans and venting to the room itself, should provide all the circulation you will need to prevent overheating.



Well since it's a completely closed cabinet i think having some sort of ventilation is essential and while a full ac solution you mentioned is probably ideal - I would like to explore the simpler options at first


----------



## Dan C OSG

go to mid atlantics website . They have a great tool ot determine whats appropriate for your cooling. ...FYI every 10 degrees over 85 can reduce the life of digital equipment by 40%

[email protected] email me if you want some help


----------



## Bob7145

You mean 85C right? Not 85F?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *baltik* /forum/post/13342253
> 
> 
> Well since it's a completely closed cabinet i think having some sort of ventilation is essential and while a full ac solution you mentioned is probably ideal - I would like to explore the simpler options at first



A simpler option is not playing around and thinking that you also need to vent it to the outdoors. With the right combination of intake vents and fans to promote air movement and vented it out to the room itself or another room. Then there should be no need for venting it out at all to the outdoors, even if it is a fully enclosed cabinet.


----------



## Dan C OSG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/13343344
> 
> 
> You mean 85C right? Not 85F?




"how hot is your rack"

"studies show that for every 10degree rise F , the life of your digital equipment is reduced by 40%"










So they state Farenheit...


PAGE 8

http://repnet.middleatlantic.com/COM...ent%203-04.pdf


----------



## sender_name

yeah, Baltik, venting outside seems like overkill...You are going to end up with a hornets nest in your AV rack...


----------



## Mantas

Hey....Nobody tried this one offered in www.buyextras.com/evavcoblfanf.html 


BXT Amplifier/Receiver Cooler + Fan Speed Controller + AC Power Supply


They says: ".. put this cooler on top of A/V component Air Ventillation, and the cooler will start to suck hot air out from the A/V component"


As far as I understand, this fan only pulls out the hot air, and do not send fresh air (and dirt) inside the receiver.


Is it noisy?.

they states: 5 dBA(Min Fan Speed at 3V) and 33.6 dBA (Max Fan Speed at 12V).


It looks an easy solution....


----------



## MWRecords

Hey guys, I have been browsing these forums for quite some time now, but this is my first post. I would like some advice on installing a couple fans in my AV cabinet. I am trying to cool an enclosed portion of my AV cabinet that holds my xbox360. I have 2 scythe 92mm fans and the silenx 4 fan controller posted earlier in this thread. Will I get better cooling effects if I install the fans as exhaust fans or intake fans? Or should I install one exhaust, one intake? any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


----------



## baltik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/13346683
> 
> 
> A simpler option is not playing around and thinking that you also need to vent it to the outdoors. With the right combination of intake vents and fans to promote air movement and vented it out to the room itself or another room. Then there should be no need for venting it out at all to the outdoors, even if it is a fully enclosed cabinet.



Problem is the corner where the cabinet is located is between 2 exterior walls...


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *baltik* /forum/post/13370023
> 
> 
> Problem is the corner where the cabinet is located is between 2 exterior walls...




And you think cutting a hole somewhere in a exterior wall in order to vent it to the outside would not a problem?

And that dealing with intake of any sort of outside moisture or anything else that could possibly be drawn in from the outside would not be even a bigger problem over and above that as well?


You are making this way more difficult than needs to be, just vent it into the room itself. Place the vents in the top, bottom or back of the cabinet were they are not obvious. Same goes for a fan if you are using only one, but in that case that should be towards the top to deal with the fact that heat always will rise to the top and build up there and stay if you don't at least have a vent somewhere towards the top. Also any vents or fan intakes or exhausts holes that are not so easy to completely hide, you can always disguise them in some way with some sort of 'grill' or even a simple decorative expanded metal plate over them.


----------



## Bob7145

If you're really worried about equipment failure before it becomes obsolete then you can remove the cover and put some of these http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l2/g40/...ksCoolers.html 

on every chip you find that doesn't have one.


----------



## Spiff69

Hi All,


Thanks to the info in this thread, I was able to hone my cooling design for my cabinet. I used Scythe 120mm's and the Silenx 4 controller and it's powered by the ac plug on my AVR. I really can't hear it at all and everything is so much cooler - just what I was going for










Couple of pics attached. The first is of the fan system and the other pic is of the front of the cabinet (with my old tv, guess I should've taken new pics):


----------



## kcrossley2

Nice job! I take it that since your e-center is open, all fans are exhaust. Is that correct?


----------



## Spiff69




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kcrossley2* /forum/post/13405677
> 
> 
> Nice job! I take it that since your e-center is open, all fans are exhaust. Is that correct?



Yep, open cabinet and just pulling air from the front and blowing it out the back. Even with the cabinet open, the components just cooked in there without the fans.


----------



## Bob7145

WindyWilly Cooling Products on Ebay has pre made fan/transformers.

Or google ---Receiver Cooling fans


----------



## Erick298

how do you guys have them (fans) turned on and off? Do you just keep on plugging the power supply in when you want them on and out (unplugged) when you don't need them on? Is there an on and off switch you could use or hookup to the fans? Im looking to hook up 2 120mm fans up to maybe a speed controller and then just a 12v adjustable power supply. but im wondering whats the best way to turning them on and off? i have a onkyo 605 receiver.


i've read about plugging the power supply into the receiver but i dont know if my receiver can do that. what plug on the back of the receiver do i look for?


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Erick298* /forum/post/13422100
> 
> 
> how do you guys have them (fans) turned on and off? Do you just keep on plugging the power supply in when you want them on and out (unplugged) when you don't need them on? Is there an on and off switch you could use or hookup to the fans? Im looking to hook up 2 120mm fans up to maybe a speed controller and then just a 12v adjustable power supply. but im wondering whats the best way to turning them on and off? i have a onkyo 605 receiver.
> 
> 
> i've read about plugging the power supply into the receiver but i dont know if my receiver can do that. what plug on the back of the receiver do i look for?



Doesn't the Onkyo have a switched outlet on back? I know the 705 does.

Sometimes your cable box may have a switched outlet too.

As for me, they draw such little power I have no reason to turn them off.


----------



## youngguns27

I have a cabinet with a closed front I was going to add vent holes on the back and 3 fans probably 120mm. One fan for my Denon 3808, 1 fan for my tivo series 3 and 1 fan for the PS3 all to vent would that be correct or do I need to add a fan for intake as well???










Here is a link to my stand
http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=994&f=12147


----------



## youngguns27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yamahaSHO* /forum/post/12744267
> 
> 
> I use the same SilenX fan PSU/controller on my setup.



How did you mount your fans?? The install looks very clean.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *youngguns27* /forum/post/13467700
> 
> 
> I have a cabinet with a closed front I was going to add vent holes on the back and 3 fans probably 120mm. One fan for my Denon 3808, 1 fan for my tivo series 3 and 1 fan for the PS3 all to vent would that be correct or do I need to add a fan for intake as well???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to my stand
> http://www.crateandbarrel.com/family.aspx?c=994&f=12147



If it is a multi-level cabinet (ie. shelves), make the top a vent, the levels below intakes.


----------



## youngguns27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/13472019
> 
> 
> If it is a multi-level cabinet (ie. shelves), make the top a vent, the levels below intakes.



Thanks that helps a lot.


----------



## umtech




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grimdeath* /forum/post/13422286
> 
> 
> Doesn't the Onkyo have a switched outlet on back? I know the 705 does.
> 
> Sometimes your cable box may have a switched outlet too.
> 
> As for me, they draw such little power I have no reason to turn them off.



The 604/674/705 has a power switcher on the back, the 605 does not. I have a thermo coupler inline on mine that is set for 80 degrees, when it reaches that temp then the fan comes one, when the receiver is off and temp is under 80 it shuts off automajically.


----------



## yamahaSHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *youngguns27* /forum/post/13469480
> 
> 
> How did you mount your fans?? The install looks very clean.



Thanks, I just used velcro in the corners. I thought this might isolate fan vibration and allow easier removal/installation.


----------



## YMark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yamahaSHO* /forum/post/13475996
> 
> 
> Thanks, I just used velcro in the corners. I thought this might isolate fan vibration and allow easier removal/installation.



Did you drill holes in your cabinet for the fans? I like this setup but would rather avoid taking a hole saw to my cabinet.


----------



## bricot

Being a a fire guy, I am going to go with positive pressure ventilation. I'm planning on running 6 fans on intake (the front corners will be mitered at 45 degrees and I will mount the fans in that trim piece) with one on exhaust at the back, there will be a small gap around the glass door and a few holes for the power supply/coax cables. I will put filtered grills on all the intake fans which should keep the air in the cabinet clean.


I'm thinking of either a thermostat fan controller or thermocoupler so the fans will kick on around 75-80 degrees. (Product suggestions?)


Design thoughts?


I was planning on leaving at least a 6" gap between the top of the receiver and the next shelf, would you do the same for Blue Ray, SAT Rec, and VCR? Or with the active cooling, would you narrow those gaps some?


I've been told that the Scythe fans don't work well with thermal controllers (work well run 100% of the time) ?


They are pushing either Yate Loons or Enermax Enoble fans, didn't someone report the Yate Loons as being pretty noisy?


Thanks!!


----------



## yamahaSHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YMark* /forum/post/13477005
> 
> 
> Did you drill holes in your cabinet for the fans? I like this setup but would rather avoid taking a hole saw to my cabinet.




I had to drill the holes, but I was happy with the finish. A 4.5" hole saw is almost a perfect fit for the size of the fan blade on a 120mm fan. If you take your time, you'll end up with good results and you can take a staining pen or just some stain to help blend in the edges and protect the wood.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bricot* /forum/post/13477032
> 
> 
> Being a a fire guy, I am going to go with positive pressure ventilation. I'm planning on running 6 fans on intake (the front corners will be mitered at 45 degrees and I will mount the fans in that trim piece) with one on exhaust at the back, there will be a small gap around the glass door and a few holes for the power supply/coax cables. I will put filtered grills on all the intake fans which should keep the air in the cabinet clean.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of either a thermostat fan controller or thermocoupler so the fans will kick on around 75-80 degrees. (Product suggestions?)
> 
> 
> Design thoughts?
> 
> 
> I was planning on leaving at least a 6" gap between the top of the receiver and the next shelf, would you do the same for Blue Ray, SAT Rec, and VCR? Or with the active cooling, would you narrow those gaps some?
> 
> 
> I've been told that the Scythe fans don't work well with thermal controllers (work well run 100% of the time) ?
> 
> 
> They are pushing either Yate Loons or Enermax Enoble fans, didn't someone report the Yate Loons as being pretty noisy?
> 
> 
> Thanks!!




From my experience, negative pressure, if postioned correctly works better. I also have a fan blowing under the my receiver with a hole cut in the shelf. It is amazing how cool it stays.


I think an intake and exhaust fan at the same speed or slightly slower intake is better, but YMMV.


I'm using 3 Scythe Slip Stream 120mm (1,200 RPM) fans in my computer and they do very well at 5v. They move more air than the Yate Loon's, but can also get very noisy at full speed. The Yate Loons I had in my cabinet could be run at full speed without breaking the sound barrier.


----------



## Erick298




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umtech* /forum/post/13475235
> 
> 
> The 604/674/705 has a power switcher on the back, the 605 does not. I have a thermo coupler inline on mine that is set for 80 degrees, when it reaches that temp then the fan comes one, when the receiver is off and temp is under 80 it shuts off automajically.



where did you get your thermo coupler inline? what do u need?


----------



## Erick298

i have a question on the power supply (most of them) you can adjust the voltage and when adjusting the voltage it will decrease or increase fan speed. is this wrong?


----------



## DMAN11

Hey guys, any of you ever use these fans for anything? *ENERMAX Marathon Enlobal Fan 80mm UC-8EB* How are they? Are they quiet enough?


I ordered them with a CABCOOL802 Dual 80mm Fan Cooling kit from coolerguys.com. I got extra screws, and the mesh grills with it and after shipping and all it came out to like $55. I didn't think that was too bad, what do you guys say?


Let me know on those fans.......Thanks!!


DMAN


----------



## bricot

Those are the fans I am looking at too, stat's don't look to bad, and they supposedly work better with a fan controller with thermostat. I would get a fan controller, you can fine tune the speed you want with it.


----------



## mak99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mantas* /forum/post/13367848
> 
> 
> Hey....Nobody tried this one offered in www.buyextras.com/evavcoblfanf.html
> 
> ...
> 
> It looks an easy solution....



I have this one (thanks to this thread!), bought a few months ago to help out my Onkyo 705 downstairs in the media room. Works great, very quiet behind glass doors of well-vented Salamander Twin20 (perf sides and extended rear panels), and kept the Onkyo way cooler than before.


Ironically, I just moved this fan up to the family room to cool my Yamaha 5660, which is inside a built-in wall cabinet. The Yamaha is on the top shelf (of three total, behind solid wood doors), and holes in the back for routing cables to the TV on the main, open shelf above. I bought the Antec AV cooler as a replacement to use for the Onkyo, but do not like the Antec as much - bright blue light when on, noticeable noise even on low speed, and amp seems to be warmer since the Antec is a full-width component and sorta covers all the Onkyo's vent holes, though maybe about an inch above them. I liked the smaller footprint of the Buyextras' fan as it let the Onkyo breathe a little more efficiently...


I'll probably end up sending the Antec back to Buy.com and buying another Buyextras fan for less than half the $$ of the Antec. I will also add fans to circulate air thru the built-in bookcase of the family room. I've found some great ideas from others in this thread, so I'll be sure to post up pics when I get off my arse and tackle this project...


----------



## DMAN11

bricot,


yeah, I was looking at something like the SilenX 4 channel controller from frozencpu.com. It might even cut some of the 14 db noise to less than that with a little slower speed, and it will control up to 4 fans. So this leaves me room to grow if I want to add fans elsewhere in the unit I'm building. The two I am putting now are going to be in a shelf above my LCD in order to exhaust some or the hot air behind the unit.


Thanks for the input.....DMAN


----------



## gosurf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMAN11* /forum/post/13484398
> 
> 
> Hey guys, any of you ever use these fans for anything? *ENERMAX Marathon Enlobal Fan 80mm UC-8EB* How are they? Are they quiet enough?
> 
> 
> DMAN



I use 2 of the 80mm ENERMAX Enlobal fans to cool my Onkyo 605. I have them in the rear of the cabinet exhausting air. I just completed the cooling fan setup last week so I can not comment on thier longevity. I can tell you that they are very quiet and move plenty of air. I connected the fans to an attic fan thermostat set to 85°F and placed it on top of the receiver over the hotest spot (right rear). The fans come on after the receiver has been on for about 5 minutes and turn off about 5 minutes after the receiver is turned off. Hope this helps - let me know if you want pics or other info.


----------



## DMAN11

gosurf,


This is quite encouraging to hear. And yeah, of course any pics would be awesome. I am going to be using mine to vent air from behind my LCD TV. My receiver (Onkyo 604) is actually going to be on an open shelf so I think it will be OK.


Did your fans come in some sort of kit or did you just put the setup together yourself? If so, where did you buy from?


Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to getting mine in now......


DMAN


----------



## gosurf

DMAN - Do you have plenty of room above your receiver? There is only about 3" clearance above my receiver and the manual said it needs 8".


I already had the 12V power supply (from an old phone) and the attic fan thermostat (from my son's science fair project) so I ordered the fans from Monoprice and put it together myself. Is is not pretty but you can't see it from the front and it does the job.


----------



## pdl2mtl90




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spiff69* /forum/post/13405643
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I used Scythe 120mm's and the Silenx 4 controller and it's powered by the ac plug on my AVR. I really can't hear it at all and everything is so much cooler



Which Scythe fans did you use? Found two I am interested in on newegg. One pulls 68cfm @ 24dB ($8.99), the other 44cfm @ 19dB ($6.99). Trying decide which one to buy. Will be using the SilenX 4 controller with at least 2, maybe as many as 4 fans.


----------



## HuskerHarley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdl2mtl90* /forum/post/13510384
> 
> 
> Which Scythe fans did you use? Found two I am interested in on newegg. One pulls 68cfm @ 24dB ($8.99), the other 44cfm @ 19dB ($6.99). Trying decide which one to buy. Will be using the SilenX 4 controller with at least 2, maybe as many as 4 fans.



If you want QUIET:


Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) (SFF21E) (SFF21F) 120mm Dynamic Fluid Bearing Fan Nearly Inaudible


Market Leading Low-Noise Level

S-FDB technology drastically eliminates the friction between the bearing and the shaft which makes this fan nearly inaudible to human ears. Additional suction magnet optimizes the magnetic force balance within the rotor to achieve the absolute silence. To further achieve the absolute silence, the fan is equipped with the Linear drive IC for reducing electromagnetic noise.


Outstanding Long Life of 150,000 Hours


S-FLEX is SONY corp. patented bearing technology.

120mm Fan with 150,000 hrs long life


MTBF: 150,000 hours

* MTBF of normal ball bearing Fan: 50,000 hours

* MTBF of normal sleeve bearing Fan: 20,000 hours


* S-FLEX is registered trademark of SONY Corp.



SFF21D 120x120x25mm 800rpm ((((8.7dBA)))) 33.5CFM 0.10A 12V 840556025443


FAN LINK 


HH


----------



## DMAN11

gosurf,


Yes I do. I have about 8-9 inches above it and about 2" on each side. There will also be space behind it as the shelf that it's gona sit on is only 20" deep and I'll have it all the way to the front. There will be no doors or anything like that, so it will get plenty of air to it.... And of course, I will have 6" X 1.5" slots cut out of the backs of the shelves for wires to pass through and extra heat exhaust too.


You think that will suffice? or should I go ahead and order at least 1 more fan?....


I'm attaching a pic of the concept pic I did for the unit........


Thanks......DMAN


----------



## DMAN11

ok,,,,not sure if the pic uploaded or not, so i'll try it again here......



DMAN


----------



## vluzhko

Hi all

It is my first post here I believe and I need some advice on cabinet cooling.

I have cabinet with glass door at front. Inside Pioneer 917 AV receiver and it is cooking everything there. I cannot even touch it when it is hot.

So Reading this forum I decided to add some fans at the back of the cabinet.


First I bought Thermaltake Silent CAT 120mm Case Fan. It is


Noise Level: 16 dBA Air Flow: 63.5 CFM


Pretty good. It works well from 12V/1A DC adapter.

but it is White and this is the problem.


So I decided to go with 2 S-FLEX coolers 800 rpm, 8.7 bBA and also 60+ CFM in total for both.


These looks solid and are black

But the problem is that when I connect it ito DC adapter coller starts making high pitch sound and it is very loud.

I connected it to PC connector and it works perfectly. so the problem is now in DC adapter.

But why those other cooler works ok? How can I plug this S-FLEX into the wall? Should I keep purchasing DC adapters and try them untill I find one working?


Thanks


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMAN11* /forum/post/13490424
> 
> 
> bricot,
> 
> 
> yeah, I was looking at something like the SilenX 4 channel controller from frozencpu.com. It might even cut some of the 14 db noise to less than that with a little slower speed, and it will control up to 4 fans. So this leaves me room to grow if I want to add fans elsewhere in the unit I'm building. The two I am putting now are going to be in a shelf above my LCD in order to exhaust some or the hot air behind the unit.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input.....DMAN



I found a 6 fan controller, which you can double up fans and control 2 fans off each channel. The corners of the cabinet I am building are mitered to 45 degrees and I'm thinking of putting one 80mm fan on each corner for each shelf. This would give me 2 fans per shelf blowing filtered air in then i will run 1 - 2 fans out of the back.


Coolerguys are 4 - 6 weeks out from production on a thermal controller set to kick on anything plugged into it at 80 degrees.



I'll try and post a pic of my cabinet design tonight.


----------



## DMAN11

bricot,


where is that 6 fan controller from?? sounds interesting. and can't wait to see the pics...


DMAN


----------



## gosurf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMAN11* /forum/post/13520264
> 
> 
> Yes I do. I have about 8-9 inches above it and about 2" on each side. There will also be space behind it as the shelf that it's gona sit on is only 20" deep and I'll have it all the way to the front. There will be no doors or anything like that, so it will get plenty of air to it.... And of course, I will have 6" X 1.5" slots cut out of the backs of the shelves for wires to pass through and extra heat exhaust too.
> 
> 
> You think that will suffice? or should I go ahead and order at least 1 more fan?....
> 
> 
> I'm attaching a pic of the concept pic I did for the unit........
> 
> 
> Thanks......DMAN



DMAN,


That is going to be a very nice set up. What size is the TV?


Here is what my receiver manual says "...Leave 8" of free space at the top and sides and 4" at the rear. The rear edge of the shelf above the receiver shall be set 4" away from the rear panel or wall..." Yours is probably similar so you may be a little thin on the sides, but it looks like your receiver should be ok. I would try it without a fan, monitor the receiver temperature - you can get another fan later if you need to.


Make sure the airflow can go from low to high behind your TV. The warm air will want to do this naturally, but the fans in the shelf above the TV could also draw cold air in over the top of the TV which reduces the amount of hot air that they exhaust. I read a good article about this not too long ago - I will try to find it and post a link.


----------



## DMAN11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gosurf* /forum/post/13532146
> 
> 
> DMAN,
> 
> 
> That is going to be a very nice set up. What size is the TV?
> 
> 
> Here is what my receiver manual says "...Leave 8" of free space at the top and sides and 4" at the rear. The rear edge of the shelf above the receiver shall be set 4" away from the rear panel or wall..." Yours is probably similar so you may be a little thin on the sides, but it looks like your receiver should be ok. I would try it without a fan, monitor the receiver temperature - you can get another fan later if you need to.
> 
> 
> Make sure the airflow can go from low to high behind your TV. The warm air will want to do this naturally, but the fans in the shelf above the TV could also draw cold air in over the top of the TV which reduces the amount of hot air that they exhaust. I read a good article about this not too long ago - I will try to find it and post a link.



Thanks gosurf,,,,, the compliments are much appreciated. I have a Sony Wega 50" LCD, and it is gonna have about 3" around the sides and top, so not sure if the cold air intrusion will affect the hot air exhaust or not. If it does though, how bout this for a remedy.....I can put a "petition" if you will with something like a piece of trim across the top to minimize the cold air coming in from the top and it will be forcing the hot air out through the back??? What do you think?


As for the manual, I'm hoping 2 out of 3 is gonna do it for me,,,,cause hey, 2 out of 3 aint bad....hehehe And like I said before, I can always add a fan behind the receiver if I need to.


We got everything primed, textured, and 1st coat of paint done so far. After second coat of paint, it's on to building shelves,,,,, and then figuring out how I'm gonna route wires, what new cables I'll need to buy, and all that fun stuff....


I'll keep you guys informed of the progress.


DMAN


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMAN11* /forum/post/13531448
> 
> 
> bricot,
> 
> 
> where is that 6 fan controller from?? sounds interesting. and can't wait to see the pics...
> 
> 
> DMAN



Coolerguys had the 6 port unit.


Here is one view of the cabinet, it will have a pivoting glass door in the front. The shelves end 6" before the back of the cabinet for running wires. the back has two doors attached with european style cabinet hinges.

The holes are where i will mount the speakers on the inside with flush mount black filter screens on the outside over the holes. I am going to try it with the fans mounted in intake mode (positive pressure) bring air in through the filtered screens and out through 1 - 2 fans/vents in the back.


----------



## boomer-sooner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umtech* /forum/post/13475235
> 
> 
> The 604/674/705 has a power switcher on the back, the 605 does not. I have a thermo coupler inline on mine that is set for 80 degrees, when it reaches that temp then the fan comes one, when the receiver is off and temp is under 80 it shuts off automajically.



Could explain this setup? Any pics? I've got the Onkyo 605 as well, along with a PS3 that generates a lot of heat. Thanks to this thread, I've figured out exactly what I want to do but I really don't want to just leave the fans on non-stop. How does the inline thermocouple work?


Also, does everyone mount the body of the fan on the outside or inside? I can't wait to get this done. I'm so paranoid about the heat in my cabinet as it is.


----------



## Erick298

here is my setup. the two 80mm fans that push like 22 cfm amount of airflow. both are exhaust. the receiver is fine, im just worried about the ps3 because as u know the fans kick in when it gets to a certain temp in the ps3 which i am experiencing even though i have these two fans installed. the ps3 get pretty loud for 10 min or so then the fans slow down. the cabinet has doors on them but i have them open really most of the time.


any suggestions? do u think getting different fans that have more airflow or get the fans that attach to the ps3?


----------



## gosurf

Erick - When both cabinet doors are open, the fans are mostly just exhausting room air, not the warm air from your ps3. Try closing the cabinet door infront of the fans. That may help pull cool air across/through the unit and exhaust the warm air.


----------



## stoneag

Here is a basic sketch of my situation. I am able to mount the two fans behind the a/v gear because the build-in is about 30" deep. The question is whether or not to draw air in from the front of the enclosure holding the equipment (not shown) or draw air from the shelf below (should be at room temp) and exhaust out the front of the a/v enclosure. I have purchased 2 of the scythe fans that will power on with the receiver. I am also debating the benefit of constructing wedges to direct the air flow towards the front rather than straight up.


I could also do one intake and one exhaust in the back but it seems that may short circuit the flow. Venting anywhere but through the shelf the equipment is sitting on isn't an option.


Thanks for any thoughts.

 

fans.pdf 40.9775390625k . file


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stoneag* /forum/post/13656389
> 
> 
> Here is a basic sketch of my situation. I am able to mount the two fans behind the a/v gear because the build-in is about 30" deep. The question is whether or not to draw air in from the front of the enclosure holding the equipment (not shown) or draw air from the shelf below (should be at room temp) and exhaust out the front of the a/v enclosure. I have purchased 2 of the scythe fans that will power on with the receiver. I am also debating the benefit of constructing wedges to direct the air flow towards the front rather than straight up.
> 
> 
> I could also do one intake and one exhaust in the back but it seems that may short circuit the flow. Venting anywhere but through the shelf the equipment is sitting on isn't an option.
> 
> 
> Thanks for any thoughts.



Can't open your drawing. I wouldn't mount both fans in the back with one in exhaust and one in intake mode, your likely to get areas of no circulation. I would draw air in from the front and across your components and out the back in that scenario. There are quite a few people that have gone with mounting fans in the center of the shelves blowing up through their components from shelf to shelf and exhaust out of the top. What ever you do try to use the natural thermal effects of heat rising, chimney effect, etc.


If your going to with positive pressure you need a 2 to 1 (intake to exhaust) ratio.


----------



## sskkant

I used LUX Programmable thermostat - WIN100 luxproducts.com/thermostats/win100.htm , very effectively to turn the fans in the cabinet ON when the temp in the cabinet reached 90.


It has a power outlet that turns ON and OFF at the temp setting. I connected the vent fans plug to the outlet and presto its done. If you need pictures or more explanation on this email me at [email protected] 


-Sri


----------



## sabes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/13254080
> 
> 
> Why do you think you even need to vent it going to outdoors? Seems like a lot of unnecessary work. And like you mention, preventing moisture from getting in and building up could be a real problem, and also one that may be near impossible to deal with without spending a lot of money. Besides if it really get so hot inside that cabinet that it needs to be vented to the outdoors, then it's probably time to consider routing some sort of a small dedicated A/C device just to the cabinet. Installing cooling fans and venting to the room itself, should provide all the circulation you will need to prevent overheating.



anyone seen any such a/c devices?


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabes* /forum/post/13958488
> 
> 
> anyone seen any such a/c devices?



Yeah, they are called the smallest air conditioner that you can find, and then adapting it to work with a cabinet. And then you will need to figure out how to duct the hot air exhaust from the A/C unit itself to the outside, otherwise it will also heat up the room if you just let it exhaust into the room. Otherwise just buy the smallest window mount A/C unit that you can find put it in a window, or a outside wall, or in a basement or garage, and make up some form of ductwork that runs the cooled air from it into the cabinet instead of the room. There are also few portable two piece air conditioners that you could buy that come with a flexable duct to put in a window for the hot exhaust, which might make it a little easier to do but also at a higher cost. Or you can do a search for "Enclosure air conditioners", and come up with sites like this http://www.eicsolutionsinc.com/therm...ng_systems.htm 

And there are also the small air conditioners that are designed for server rack use, which would probably be easy to use as a A/V cabinet A/C unit also, and those seem to start at about $3,000 and up.


So if you thought there was something you might find for for $50-$75 or so and that is dedicated and designed to do this, that is probably not going to happen.


----------



## mgorsk02

First off -- Thanks everyone in this thread for all your input. I ended up getting 4 S-Flex fans and using a 4.5 inch hold saw and velcro as mouting (all ideas I got from this thread). I have 4 levels of my completely enclosed (glass front) cabinet that are now always cool. As a test I left my PS3, SA8300HD, XBOX360, Wii, and Sony Receiver all on for about 4 hours yesterday and I had no problems. Before, the PS3 would go into turbo fan mode (very distracting for me) and heat would really build up.


Now for my problem. I was positive that my Receiver had a switched outlet. I was wrong. This would have been perfect because I want the fans to come on when I am watching or playing anything on the TV. I don't like leaving stuff on when I am not home and it seems like a waste to leave them on 24 hours a day.


Does anyone know of a device that will switch one AC outlet on through an IR command? Ideally I would like to use my Harmony One to send the ON command with every activity and then shut off when I end it. I looked and looked but can only find RF devices. Are there any other options aside from buying a new receiver with an AC outlet?


----------



## sabes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/13960450
> 
> 
> Yeah, they are called the smallest air conditioner that you can find, and then adapting it to work with a cabinet. And then you will need to figure out how to duct the hot air exhaust from the A/C unit itself to the outside, otherwise it will also heat up the room if you just let it exhaust into the room. Otherwise just buy the smallest window mount A/C unit that you can find put it in a window, or a outside wall, or in a basement or garage, and make up some form of ductwork that runs the cooled air from it into the cabinet instead of the room. There are also few portable two piece air conditioners that you could buy that come with a flexable duct to put in a window for the hot exhaust, which might make it a little easier to do but also at a higher cost. Or you can do a search for "Enclosure air conditioners", and come up with sites like this http://www.eicsolutionsinc.com/therm...ng_systems.htm
> 
> And there are also the small air conditioners that are designed for server rack use, which would probably be easy to use as a A/V cabinet A/C unit also, and those seem to start at about $3,000 and up.
> 
> 
> So if you thought there was something you might find for for $50-$75 or so and that is dedicated and designed to do this, that is probably not going to happen.



thanks - very helpful. i am unfortunately resigned to the fact that this may be expensive, but losing my components to heat would be even worse! anyone implement an a/c system?


----------



## mak99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabes* /forum/post/13961134
> 
> 
> thanks - very helpful. i am unfortunately resigned to the fact that this may be expensive, but losing my components to heat would be even worse! anyone implement an a/c system?



Hey, I work for a mechanical contractor and would love to sell everyone here a dedicated HVAC system for their gear!!!










Personally, I think it's talking overkill with AC for your gear, unless you have an impressive, high-$$ installation in a poorly/non-ventilated closet. For the equipment stands/racks/cabinets/gear and such that are being described here (like my own), installing some small fans and smartly-located inlets should do the job 99% of the time.


Bring the air into your cabinet from an opening near the floor, this is where air will be coolest (hot air rises!). I just bought a white, plastic toe-kick grill from Home Depot last week to install in my built-in bookcase cabinet - it's about 2" x 10" and cost less than $10. It will be on the bottom shelf of the cabinet, and you will not see it with the doors closed. The grille will be about 4" from the floor.


Locate a small fan up high within the cabinet to exhaust the warmer air out, preferable close to your hotter gear (amps, DVRs, etc.). Or at the least, drill some decent sized holes in lieu of any fans to let the heat escape.


I just bought two Scythe SFF21D fans to place on the extra 1.5" dia holes in the top rear of my cabinet (plenty of depth behind the LCD TV) to draw the air thru. (There are five 1.5" dia holes evenly spaced, for cable routing and ventilation). I had the guys in the shop make two small square metal "cans" to use, about 5"x5"x5", with an open top and bottom to use as plenums. The bottom opening of these cans will sit over the 1.5" hole, and the fan will be screwed to the top opening as it has a 1" flange all around (3" square opening). I will have two of these fan/cans assembly for placement flexibility.


Personally I think this is overkill, but my Yamaha amp does heat up quite a bit over a few hours of TV or HD DVD watching...


----------



## sabes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mak99* /forum/post/13973539
> 
> 
> Hey, I work for a mechanical contractor and would love to sell everyone here a dedicated HVAC system for their gear!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I think it's talking overkill with AC for your gear, unless you have an impressive, high-$$ installation in a poorly/non-ventilated closet. For the equipment stands/racks/cabinets/gear and such that are being described here (like my own), installing some small fans and smartly-located inlets should do the job 99% of the time.
> 
> 
> Bring the air into your cabinet from an opening near the floor, this is where air will be coolest (hot air rises!). I just bought a white, plastic toe-kick grill from Home Depot last week to install in my built-in bookcase cabinet - it's about 2" x 10" and cost less than $10. It will be on the bottom shelf of the cabinet, and you will not see it with the doors closed. The grille will be about 4" from the floor.
> 
> 
> Locate a small fan up high within the cabinet to exhaust the warmer air out, preferable close to your hotter gear (amps, DVRs, etc.). Or at the least, drill some decent sized holes in lieu of any fans to let the heat escape.
> 
> 
> I just bought two Scythe SFF21D fans to place on the extra 1.5" dia holes in the top rear of my cabinet (plenty of depth behind the LCD TV) to draw the air thru. (There are five 1.5" dia holes evenly spaced, for cable routing and ventilation). I had the guys in the shop make two small square metal "cans" to use, about 5"x5"x5", with an open top and bottom to use as plenums. The bottom opening of these cans will sit over the 1.5" hole, and the fan will be screwed to the top opening as it has a 1" flange all around (3" square opening). I will have two of these fan/cans assembly for placement flexibility.
> 
> 
> Personally I think this is overkill, but my Yamaha amp does heat up quite a bit over a few hours of TV or HD DVD watching...



this is useful info - thanks - sounds like we've got similar setups. my airholes/chimneys behind my plasma just aren't sufficient, so i guess the best thing is to add the fans and a cold air vent at the bottom of the cabinet. enough of the a/c flights of fancy...


----------



## mak99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sabes* /forum/post/13974141
> 
> 
> this is useful info - thanks - sounds like we've got similar setups. my airholes/chimneys behind my plasma just aren't sufficient, so i guess the best thing is to add the fans and a cold air vent at the bottom of the cabinet. enough of the a/c flights of fancy...



I'll try to post up a pic of my fan/can arrangement, not sure my description is quite adequate! Good thing the guys in the shop knew exactly what I was describing to them...


----------



## patniemeyer

A small 12v computer fan venting continuously near the top of the cabinet will be inaudibly quiet and will cool the entire cabinet just fine... I have a 3" fan that's not even fully open to the outside (partially obstructed) and it keeps my Vip622 and Mac mini perfectly cool. It cost about $5 plus an AC adapter.


Now, when I run my XBox I open the cabinet door... but for general use a little trickle of air exiting near the top of the cabinet is all that's needed to vent the hot air and draw in some cool.



Pat


----------



## yamahaSHO

I was able to set it up to where I didn't have to open the cabinets even to play Xbox.


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgorsk02* /forum/post/13961119
> 
> 
> First off -- Thanks everyone in this thread for all your input. I ended up getting 4 S-Flex fans and using a 4.5 inch hold saw and velcro as mouting (all ideas I got from this thread). I have 4 levels of my completely enclosed (glass front) cabinet that are now always cool. As a test I left my PS3, SA8300HD, XBOX360, Wii, and Sony Receiver all on for about 4 hours yesterday and I had no problems. Before, the PS3 would go into turbo fan mode (very distracting for me) and heat would really build up.
> 
> 
> Now for my problem. I was positive that my Receiver had a switched outlet. I was wrong. This would have been perfect because I want the fans to come on when I am watching or playing anything on the TV. I don't like leaving stuff on when I am not home and it seems like a waste to leave them on 24 hours a day.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of a device that will switch one AC outlet on through an IR command? Ideally I would like to use my Harmony One to send the ON command with every activity and then shut off when I end it. I looked and looked but can only find RF devices. Are there any other options aside from buying a new receiver with an AC outlet?



You might look at this thermal controller, comes on at 80 and shuts of at 73, not bad for $13. http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html


----------



## jlaavenger

I'm thinking this looks like a good solution.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/...ans-Page1.html 


I have this entertainment center. 
__
https://flic.kr/p/2560633533
​
The bottom center door has a glass panel option and has one shelf inside. The other two bottom doors have fabric panel replacement options each with one shelf and all have vents in the bottom. I'm thinking one fan each at the back of the three enclosures.

BTW, The bridge above the TV is adjustable. And the TV stand is exactly 57" wide. (For the TV I'm going with either the LN52A750 or the Pioneer 111fd)


My components will include:

Monster AVS 2000 Voltage Stabilizer

Monster HDP 2400 Reference center

Sony PS3 (60gb)

Oppo 983H (DVD Player)

Dish Network 722vip DVR

a JVC VCR

and either

Pioneer VSX-01THX or the Denon 2309CI AVR


Any advice? Is this a good solution? What kind of power supply would I need?


----------



## Heboil

I have a separate cubby hole cut into a wall in my home theater to house my gear. The "cubby" room is actually a little cubicle I built out of drywall in my furnace room. The backside of this equipment cubicle is a sheet of pegboard with handles that allow me to remove it. I cut a large hole in the pegboard to allow even more air flow, but the equipment rack still gets too overheated. As the room is soundproofed from the equipment, could I put a 9" window fan on the backside of the pegboard and exhaust the air out into the furnace room? I can set it to air exchange, so one takes in, one exhausts.

LINK 


Just don't want to go to the length of building all this out of computer parts and wall warts when I can get something pre-built and inexpensive that will do the same job for me. Thanks.


----------



## jlaavenger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heboil* /forum/post/14151968
> 
> 
> I have a separate cubby hole cut into a wall in my home theater to house my gear. The "cubby" room is actually a little cubicle I built out of drywall in my furnace room. The backside of this equipment cubicle is a sheet of pegboard with handles that allow me to remove it. I cut a large hole in the pegboard to allow even more air flow, but the equipment rack still gets too overheated. As the room is soundproofed from the equipment, could I put a 9" window fan on the backside of the pegboard and exhaust the air out into the furnace room? I can set it to air exchange, so one takes in, one exhausts.
> 
> LINK
> 
> 
> Just don't want to go to the length of building all this out of computer parts and wall warts when I can get something pre-built and inexpensive that will do the same job for me. Thanks.



Good idea.


----------



## RichTJ99

Does someone sell a 4 fan temp controlled power unit (plug all four fans into the temp controlled power unit?


----------



## jlaavenger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Heboil* /forum/post/14151968
> 
> 
> I have a separate cubby hole cut into a wall in my home theater to house my gear. The "cubby" room is actually a little cubicle I built out of drywall in my furnace room. The backside of this equipment cubicle is a sheet of pegboard with handles that allow me to remove it. I cut a large hole in the pegboard to allow even more air flow, but the equipment rack still gets too overheated. As the room is soundproofed from the equipment, could I put a 9" window fan on the backside of the pegboard and exhaust the air out into the furnace room? I can set it to air exchange, so one takes in, one exhausts.
> 
> LINK
> 
> 
> Just don't want to go to the length of building all this out of computer parts and wall warts when I can get something pre-built and inexpensive that will do the same job for me. Thanks.



Did it work?


----------



## RichTJ99

Hi,


I ended up making my own kit (parts are on the way). I had one question on mounting the fans. I noticed some talk of using isolators to make the fans not vibrate. How is this done? Do I just get some rubber to put between the back of the cabinet & the fan (so the screws are sitting on the rubber itself)?


Im a little confused on the isolation techniques.


Thanks,

Rich


----------



## MrEastSide

I decided to do a little custom cooling. When I realized that the power adapter that came with the cooler I ordered had 4 pin connectors that fit standard PC fans I bought 3 PC fans from my work. I rigged them all together and made a sweet fan/light bar. And with this many fans going my receiver runs about 25 degrees cooler, sometimes better. Now, granted, these pictures were taken after the receiver had been on for a while and I just started the fans up. So that's why it still reads 113.


The original cooler ended up not being what I thought it was which is why I bought these once I realized I had the power adapter.


----------



## Jetmeck

So some receivers have a temperature sensor and readout built in ?


----------



## NickyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrEastSide* /forum/post/14322736
> 
> 
> I decided to do a little custom cooling. When I realized that the power adapter that came with the cooler I ordered had 4 pin connectors that fit standard PC fans I bought 3 PC fans from my work. I rigged them all together and made a sweet fan/light bar. And with this many fans going my receiver runs about 25 degrees cooler, sometimes better. Now, granted, these pictures were taken after the receiver had been on for a while and I just started the fans up. So that's why it still reads 113.
> 
> 
> The original cooler ended up not being what I thought it was which is why I bought these once I realized I had the power adapter.




So how good does it work, especially with the 360 running. My setup is similar to what you have with my 360 over my receiver and I need to get better cooling. I have one fan that has helped but I jsut have not mounted anything permanent. Are you just leaving these fans on top of the receiver and do you have any venting out the back?


----------



## WilliamZX11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrEastSide* /forum/post/14322736
> 
> 
> 
> The original cooler ended up not being what I thought it was which is why I bought these once I realized I had the power adapter.




Don't you find the blue LED fans just a little distracting? Would drive me nuts.


----------



## MrEastSide

^ To be honest, it's not quite as bright as it looks in the pictures. That was taken with absolutely every light in the room off. I rarely watch TV with no lights on at all. And with a light on it's not intrusive at all. But, even with the lights off it's not as bad as it appears. I can also slide it to the back vents of the receiver and then it is out of sight. But, I was concerned about the blue lights once I put it all together. It just hadn't really occurred to me in the beginning.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NickyD* /forum/post/14324256
> 
> 
> So how good does it work, especially with the 360 running. My setup is similar to what you have with my 360 over my receiver and I need to get better cooling. I have one fan that has helped but I jsut have not mounted anything permanent. Are you just leaving these fans on top of the receiver and do you have any venting out the back?



It's just these three fans on the top. And then in the rear corner you may be able to see another fan. I added that one just cause I had it, but it doesn't bring the temp down any further than the 3 when they run alone. The receiver was running at around 120F before and with these fans it stays around 98F most of the time. Of course, your mileage will vary depending on the receiver, other heat generating components you have near the receiver, where you place the fans on the receiver, etc... I did have to tinker around a bit with fan placement. I ran the receiver with the fans over each area of vents for a few days until I figured out where the best spot was. It's also, surprisingly whisper quiet. I can't hear the things unless I am down on the floor right next to the receiver.


----------



## yamahaSHO

Why 3 - 80mm fans instead of 2 - 120mm fans?


----------



## aaronwt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yamahaSHO* /forum/post/14325400
> 
> 
> Why 3 - 80mm fans instead of 2 - 120mm fans?



One 120mm fan should be enough


----------



## yamahaSHO

I was just thinking of cooling area when I said 2 - 120's, but I agree that a single 120mm would get the job done and be more quiet.


----------



## MrEastSide

Well, a 120 would have worked fine I'm sure. I just thought maybe having a little strip with the 3 80mm fans would look nicer than just slapping a large 120mm over the receiver. The 80mm fans cover the vents perfectly. So I just put 3 of them together because it almost matches the front vents perfectly. You can't hear them as it is so the noise is a non-issue.


----------



## blackfordgr

if you use a 12dc wall wart as you call it. can you solder 2 12v computer fans to it or should you have 1 fan per power source?


----------



## Bob7145

1 wall wart should do it. Compare the Amp rating on the wart to the fans. Most computer fans draw very little current especially the quiet ones.







Best if you can put a molex plug on the wart for connecting the fans.

http://www.crazypc.com/products/cabl...wireconverters


----------



## blackfordgr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/14329830
> 
> 
> 1 wall wart should do it. Compare the Amp rating on the wart to the fans. Most computer fans draw very little current especially the quiet ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best if you can put a molex plug on the wart for connecting the fans.
> 
> http://www.crazypc.com/products/cabl...wireconverters



the fans i have dont have a plug on the end. just bare wires so i thought about solder the correct wires together then use heat shrink tubing to protect it. Im thinking i need 4 fans total. 2 on the upper part and 2 inthe lower part, maybe have the upper fans exhaust the heat out since heat rises and have the lower fans blow in. here is what my entertainment stand looks like.


----------



## Dexterryu

I'm having heat issues with both my 360 and PS3. My cabinet is enclosed so I need to find a way to get some ventalation. Here are a couple of pics oo my setup (not the best pic for this question, I know).

Front: http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...u/CIMG1055.jpg 

Side: http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...u/CIMG1058.jpg 



The first action item I have is to get the power strip and surge protector out of the cabinet (was a bad idea to put them in there to begin with). So that should help some. The next thing I'm planning is to get some fans going in there.


I'm thinking of buying two of these: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082224.html 


I'd like to put one in the back of each of the two compartments. I think that should help immensely. The question is on each kit should I mount one fan in for cooling and one fan out for exhaust? Would it be better to just have them both exhaust?


----------



## Bob7145




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blackfordgr* /forum/post/14331077
> 
> 
> the fans i have dont have a plug on the end. just bare wires so i thought about solder the correct wires together then use heat shrink tubing to protect it. Im thinking i need 4 fans total. 2 on the upper part and 2 inthe lower part, maybe have the upper fans exhaust the heat out since heat rises and have the lower fans blow in. here is what my entertainment stand looks like.



Right, I mentioned those connectors because they are inexpensive and you just cut they wires on the connector you wish to use and solder them to your fan. This way you can use the SilentX fan controller mentioned earlier in this thread.


Or just buy new fans with connectors on them. They are pretty inexpensive. But so is a 120V 12" fan!


----------



## iamhowie

Is it better to use intake pulling air in or exhaust to lower the cabinet temperature?


----------



## blackfordgr

i think it would be better to get that hot air out. but i think i might do one fan blowing in and one sucking out.


----------



## trekguy

Most cabinets are not air tight. Lots of air can enter around the doors for example. PC builders know that one fan for intake and one for exhaust will not move a great deal more air that one fan exhaust fan. Use the slowest and quietest fans you can get, mounted high as exhaust fans.


If necessary you can drill some holes in the base or low back of the cabinet to allow more are to enter. Ideally you will force the incoming are to make at least one 90 degree turn so that dust drops out, but that is not always possible as a retrofit.


I have a somewhat crowded cabinet with solid pull out shelves. Air can move past the front and back edges of each shelf. As I added more and different hardware I found some hot spots and added an interior fan to improve circulation. I now have two exhaust fans mounted at the top rear, and because my doors are weather stripped for noise control, a row of intake holes beneath the lowest shelf but toward the front.



I used two fans so that I could run them at a lower voltage and reduced noise level.


----------



## FORIAMBILL

I've crammed my avr into a semi open hole in my cabinet (open in front). There's about an inch above the receiver. My STB is behind a closed door, with plenty space immediately around it. should I go with fans that sit on the components like this , or vent holes in the back of the cabinet with fans like this .



here's my cabinet


----------



## MrEastSide




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FORIAMBILL* /forum/post/14488145
> 
> 
> I've crammed my avr into a semi open hole in my cabinet (open in front). There's about an inch above the receiver. My STB is behind a closed door, with plenty space immediately around it. should I go with fans that sit on the components like this , or vent holes in the back of the cabinet with fans like this .
> 
> 
> 
> here's my cabinet



I might put the vent holes in the actual cabinet and still add one of the fans on top of the receiver for good measure. That thing really looks crammed in there!


----------



## Bob7145

FORIAMBILL,

Whatever that is under the AVR, take it out! Even with it out a fan on top of the AVR would just recycle the hot air unless the air has somewhere to go. A second fan behind the AVR at the top of that compartment would help some. Moving the AVR out of the cabinet would be best.


----------



## ccotenj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/14505498
> 
> 
> FORIAMBILL,
> 
> Whatever that is under the AVR, take it out! Even with it out a fan on top of the AVR would just recycle the hot air unless the air has somewhere to go. A second fan behind the AVR at the top of that compartment would help some. Moving the AVR out of the cabinet would be best.



+1... that avr has got to be baking in there...


move the avr to the bottom shelf, and put the middle shelf as far up as possible and relocate the center channel there... put what is under the avr and the center channel somewhere else...


and then put in a fan(s)...


----------



## veekay

Has anyone had much success getting a PS3 running in an enclosed cabinet without sounding like a jet engine gone wrong? The 360 has no problem running with the door closed and barely even kicks the fan up, but the PS3 just won't stay out of the level 3/4 fan range even with multiple exhaust fans taking out the heat.


I know it is a mess in there, but so far everything works fine aside from the dysfunctional PS3. Keeping the door open does help the issue, but of course also defeats the purpose of being "enclosed" and lets all the noise out. Unless Sony redesigns the horribly inefficient cooling system in the PS3 I'm not sure what to try next aside from what was mentioned.


Larger picture Here


----------



## Bob7145

I have never used one of these but looks good.
http://www.kellsystems.co.uk/24u_server_cabinet.asp 

My 24U cabinet has dark acrylic door and 2 120mm fans on top.


----------



## ciscore

For people looking for a cheap solution, I just found an old 4.5V sony walkman AC adapter in my basement. I'm running 2 80mm PC fans on it that I had laying around the office and they're basically silent. Also, they should pull plenty of air to suck the hot air out of my TV stand.


----------



## NickyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veekay* /forum/post/14525435
> 
> 
> Has anyone had much success getting a PS3 running in an enclosed cabinet without sounding like a jet engine gone wrong? The 360 has no problem running with the door closed and barely even kicks the fan up, but the PS3 just won't stay out of the level 3/4 fan range even with multiple exhaust fans taking out the heat.
> 
> 
> I know it is a mess in there, but so far everything works fine aside from the dysfunctional PS3. Keeping the door open does help the issue, but of course also defeats the purpose of being "enclosed" and lets all the noise out. Unless Sony redesigns the horribly inefficient cooling system in the PS3 I'm not sure what to try next aside from what was mentioned.
> 
> 
> Larger picture Here



Silly question but do you have a fan right behind the PS3 to blow out hot air. I placed a 120 fan right behind my PS3 and it has worked well for it.


----------



## veekay

Yes, dual fans sucking out the air and venting it in another location. Seems no matter how many fans I throw at that thing it just doesn't like having that door closed.


----------



## NickyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veekay* /forum/post/14544425
> 
> 
> Yes, dual fans sucking out the air and venting it in another location. Seems no matter how many fans I throw at that thing it just doesn't like having that door closed.



I don't know what to tell you, it looks like you have good ventilation, especially with the fans. Have you put any fans on the sides as well to maybe push air to the back of the unit? I don't know if this would help some. Can you move the PS3 to the lower rack and see if this helps. Last suggestion if you haven't done it already is to push the PS3 as far back as possible so that the rear is just out of the cabinet, other than that I am at a loss for you.


----------



## veekay

Tried that too. Even a fan in the front to blow into the intake and one on the side. I had even made a ducting system to take the air directly out the back and route it out of the cabinet. The silly thing is that the air temp is very cool so I don't know why the fans insist on turning up so high


----------



## NickyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *veekay* /forum/post/14551136
> 
> 
> Tried that too. Even a fan in the front to blow into the intake and one on the side. I had even made a ducting system to take the air directly out the back and route it out of the cabinet. The silly thing is that the air temp is very cool so I don't know why the fans insist on turning up so high



Wow, I can't believe that yours is that bad. How old is the PS3? Maybe there is a problem and it needs to go in for repair. I guess you can always put in on a block of dry ice, this should help some


----------



## Norky

I wanted to jump into this thread to ask how hot is too hot for a cabinet with av equipment?


In our motorhome we have a cabinet that has a dvd/vcr player, Hugh DirecTV DVR and 1 other additional direcTB receiver.


The temperature in the cabinet seems to run around 85-90°, is this too hot?

I have read this thread and there is a lot of discussion on how to cool the cabinets but could not find anything on what optimum temperature is.


Thanks in advance!


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S

What would one reccomend to someone who's racks(2) are i na closet?

Above is the attic, the door to the closet stays open until bedtime, then fully open during any use.

So it seems the AC from the room is the cold air in(through the open door) and a fan to the attic on the ceiling of the closet would suck the rising hot air out.


What type of "inexpensive" options would that person have?


----------



## veekay

PS3 itself isn't the issue - tried with another one I have and it does the exact same thing. The cooling system on the PS3 is crappy, plain and simple, but shouldn't be this bad with such low temps circulating around. Maybe in a few more revisions it will be able to better cool itself - the rev 3 heatsinks are looking a little better so far, but of course that would have to be retrofitted onto the older 60gb unit.


----------



## Norky

Since there has been no reply to my question on 8/30 about how hot is too hot for a cabinet housing av equipment, I must have not posted in the right place.


Can someone direct me to the proper AVS Forum to post the question again or perhaps a completely different forum website?


Thanks!


----------



## NickyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norky* /forum/post/14567472
> 
> 
> Since there has been no reply to my question on 8/30 about how hot is too hot for a cabinet housing av equipment, I must have not posted in the right place.
> 
> 
> Can someone direct me to the proper AVS Forum to post the question again or perhaps a completely different forum website?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Sorry but I can't give you a specific number. I would imagine it all depends on what and how much equipment in the cabinet/same area. Some equipment creates more heat ie my Onkyo 905 puts out some serious heat. Your best bet is to get a temp gauge and see what your cabinet gets to. I would try to keep the cabinet as cool as possible, especially if you have alot of equipment.


----------



## ccotenj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norky* /forum/post/14567472
> 
> 
> Since there has been no reply to my question on 8/30 about how hot is too hot for a cabinet housing av equipment, I must have not posted in the right place.
> 
> 
> Can someone direct me to the proper AVS Forum to post the question again or perhaps a completely different forum website?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



the best place to look for this would be in the manuals for your equipment... everything i own lists an "operating range" of temperature...


----------



## Norky

Thanks for the replies.


I did not even think of checking the manuals! Will do so right away.


----------



## ccotenj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Norky* /forum/post/14582434
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> 
> I did not even think of checking the manuals! Will do so right away.



well, it's never a bad thing to rtfm...


----------



## bricot

I've been told that temps above 85 start degrading internal components .... fwiw.


----------



## swnewell

I have been looking for a decent looking, low cost (

After reading this thread I think I am going with the following:


- Comcool Cooling Stand Kit with Dual 120mm Fans, Large (~16" W x ~12.5" D x ~1.5" H). The kit is "all metal and black powder coated to match virtually any black component in your setup." ( http://www.coolerguys.com/ccstandk.html )


Kit contains:

(2) 120mm Black Fan Grill / Guard

(1) 110v AC to 12v DC Power Supply with 4 Pin Molex Adapter

(2) Enermax Marathon Quiet Enlobal 120mm Fans 17 dBA, 44 CFM

(1) 3 pin Y-Adapter

(2) 4 pin to 3pin power adapters

(5) Rubber case foot bumpers



If the Ebermax fans are to loud (I sit 4' from the AV rack) I plan to replace w/ Scythe S-FLEX 120mm S-FDB Quiet Fans. I may also add the Coolerguys Thermal Fan Controller (On @ 86°F Off @ 81°F), but initially I plan to run off the switched power output from the receiver.


Coolerguys have appeared multiple times in this thread, but I have not seen if anyone has tried the Comcool Cooling Stand Kit. If so, did it perform as advertised?


Thanks


----------



## FThera

I'm redoing my inclosed AV Cabinet and adding a couple of Scythe S-Flex 120mm fans. Does anyone have an opinion on were I should put the warmer running components (top or bottom). The components will include the "new" 80 gig PS3, and a Denon 1909. Intake air enters at the bottom front and around the door.


----------



## Grimdeath




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FThera* /forum/post/14660899
> 
> 
> I'm redoing my inclosed AV Cabinet and adding a couple of Scythe S-Flex 120mm fans. Does anyone have an opinion on were I should put the warmer running components (top or bottom). The components will include the "new" 80 gig PS3, and a Denon 1909. Intake air enters at the bottom front and around the door.



There are three levels in my cabinet. The bottom and middle have fan intakes. The top is an exhaust (all fans are 80mm). On the bottom I have my receiver. In the middle I have my Motorola DVR. On the top I have the PS3. The PS3 generates sooo much heat I found the best spot was the top shelf in my case. Otherwise, all the other components got fed hot air from the PS3.


----------



## DaveN

What size hole saw do you use for the 120mm Scythe fans? What is the fan diameter? I've ordered them based on this thread with the controller, grill, etc. but they won't be here until the end of next week.


----------



## AV TechnologyGuy

Be sure to establish a forced air path through your components. This is a vry common mistake, even amongst porfessionals. If not, the cool air will just remain somewhat idle in one area or run across the back of the components which is virtually ineffective.


----------



## paxtrix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swnewell* /forum/post/14620858
> 
> 
> I have been looking for a decent looking, low cost (
> 
> After reading this thread I think I am going with the following:
> 
> 
> -snip-



Although my Onkyo 905 has never shut down and I have a very open custom built cabinet/closet with a return vent, I purchased the Antec A/V Cooler ($69.99) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=75007# today from Fry's during lunch. I was wondering if anyone has used this cooler as of yet. After reading some of the issues others have been having I said what the heck, might as well add a little extra cooling.


-Paxtrix


----------



## blackfordgr

curious to know how many fans can you run off a 9vDC, 800ma adapter?


----------



## AV TechnologyGuy

It depends on the fans. You need to consider the current draw of the fans you use, but usually they do not require much. I often see four inch fans fans rated around 450mA. You still need to consider flow rate, noise, and failure (such as a fuse).


----------



## blackfordgr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV TechnologyGuy* /forum/post/14769947
> 
> 
> It depends on the fans. You need to consider the current draw of the fans you use, but usually they do not require much. I often see four inch fans fans rated around 450mA. You still need to consider flow rate, noise, and failure (such as a fuse).



think it would be wise to add an inline fuse even-tho i have it plugged into an APC power supply?


----------



## mak99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *paxtrix* /forum/post/14746382
> 
> 
> Although my Onkyo 905 has never shut down and I have a very open custom built cabinet/closet with a return vent, I purchased the Antec A/V Cooler ($69.99) http://www.antec.com/us/productDetai...?ProdID=75007# today from Fry's during lunch. I was wondering if anyone has used this cooler as of yet. After reading some of the issues others have been having I said what the heck, might as well add a little extra cooling.



FWIW, I was using this same cooler on top of my Onkyo 805, but was not too happy with it for a few reasons...
I felt the fan noise was noticeable, even on the low setting. And this was with the amp behind the frosted glass doors of my Salamander Synergy rack.
This cooler took up quite a bit of vertical space in my rack (almost 2"), compared to the cheap-o, ugly fan cooler that the Antec replaced. My rack is a Twin 20 (17.75" clear height) with five components total, so space is at a premium. This would not be a concern if your rack has more real estate available.
The overall footprint of the cooler (~17"x14") covering almost the entire top of the Onkyo. I felt this might not allow heat to escape from areas not under the two Antec fans. The Onkyo manual calls for 8" clear above, IIRC. I'm sure I was worried about nothing...








The obnoxious blue light on the front! Of course, nothing a bit of electrical tape wouldn't fix. But still should have an option to disable the blue light...


I ended up removing the Antec (still need to sell!) and replaced with two dual-fan Cool Components coolers (bought off fleaBay for less than $20 ea!) which I like much better - quieter, more fan speed adjustments, smaller footprint (6"x4") and vertical height (1"), and no dang lights!


Plus, you can precisely locate these smaller fan units directly above the hotter area of the amp. With the Antec, you just don't have this level of flexibility...


Just my two cents - hope this helps!


----------



## dahmanator

It sounds like a lot of folks have had success with the the SilenX 4 channel fan controller. I received mine today to pair with three Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) fans. I am thinking something is wrong with the controller. I can't get all three fans to spin up at the same time. If I plug in all three, none will spin up. If I plug in one, it will spin. Sometimes I can get two to spin up but never three. I don't have anything to see how much power is actually getting to the fans, but it seems like they probably aren't getting enough.


Has anyone else seen this behavior?


Thanks...


----------



## yamahaSHO

My first one was bad and wouldn't spin any fans. I returned it and got another and the new one works like it should. I would try returning it for another.


----------



## blackfordgr

i have 2 fans running. one shows 0.30amps and the other is 0.14amps.


----------



## dahmanator

I have another one on the way. We'll see how it goes.


-fingers and toes crossed


----------



## WilliamZX11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blackfordgr* /forum/post/14796865
> 
> 
> i have 2 fans running. one shows 0.30amps and the other is 0.14amps.



Your adapter is rated 800ma, which equals .8 amps. Your total load will be .44 amps. Your adapter is fine, no worries.


----------



## blackfordgr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WilliamZX11* /forum/post/14799075
> 
> 
> Your adapter is rated 800ma, which equals .8 amps. Your total load will be .44 amps. Your adapter is fine, no worries.



so i could possibly add another fan and be safe. cool


----------



## Doc_Kracken

I am running two small silenx fans , one at the top exhaust, one at the bottom intake, I power both by a variable 12v adapter set to 9v, plugged into the switched outlet on the back of my HK AVR they come on when the AVR turns on, they are very quiet and work great. I have a cable box, receiver, cd player, and dvd player in the cabinet, with glass door, hope this helps...................the whole thing was under $50 to put together


----------



## dahmanator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dahmanator* /forum/post/14797185
> 
> 
> I have another one on the way. We'll see how it goes.
> 
> 
> -fingers and toes crossed



They sent me a replacement unit and when I plugged the new power supply into the original fan control unit, all the fans spun up. Looks like a bad power supply on the original.


----------



## mcjasonb

i plugged a fan into the switched AC plug thats in the back of my receiver. so anytime it's on the fan is on. and when it is turned off the fan turns off with it. i have it on the lowest speed setting. figured it would help pull hot air out of it even though it is pretty open around it.


----------



## jlaavenger

What is considered normal for cabinet temps when the PS3 or Dish VIP722 is running? I have the three fan cooling solution from Cooler Guys http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082231.html sucking air out and my temp runs as high as 95 or 96 degrees F. when running. Is this acceptible? Or do I need to look at addition cooling?


----------



## chris88

How does the noise generated by the fans amplify? For example if I have 3 20dBA fans running is that the same as one 60dBA fan?


----------



## yamahaSHO

I can't explain it, but the answer is no. 60 dBA is CONSIDERABLY louder than 20.


----------



## emcgrath

It's called logarithms. 2 20 dBa fans are twice as loud as one. A factor of two is 3 dB. That means that they are 23 dBa. A factor of 3 is 4.7dB. So 3 20dBa fans is about 25 dba.


----------



## HTrayne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dpugh* /forum/post/8237502
> 
> 
> Hmmm...
> 
> 
> Two PC power supply fans. Free
> 
> 
> One 12v 300mA power supply with the end cut off Free
> 
> 
> Tiny bit of solder and shrink tubing Free!
> 
> 
> Nice cool components with barely a whisper from the fans Priceless.
> 
> 
> Seriously. that's exactly what I did. The fans sit directly on top of my gear. Near the back of each piece. They cannot be seen unless you look really hard.
> 
> 
> I tried line voltage fans. The whine was intolerable.



I'm PC-ignorant, but is this as easy as buying the fans and a power supply/adapter and plugging them into the wall or a switchable AVR outlet?


If so, how much noise is too much? Is anything under 30db ok? What CFM rating am I looking for? Can anyone point me in the right direction on Newegg or elsewhere as to what power outlet/adapter I need to buy?


I'm building a media closet for 1-2 AVR's, 2 HD receivers, a PS3, 360 Elite, a VCR, and maybe one other gaming system. I'll then be using the the shelves above and below for DVD storage. I'm not sure how many fans I should use.


Any help would be great - thanks!

Thanks!


----------



## carquote

Hey guys,


I'm new to the thread and am looking for a way to vent my new 80GB PS3 which is enclosed in the top cabinet of a pier behind doors as well as my amp and other components in the base of my TV stand. The PS3 seems to run very hot and with the doors open and an ambient room temp of around 70F the temp inside the cabinet with the PS3 was quickly up to 97F







I know something needs to be done about this.


I have 3 Yate Loon D12SL-12 120mm case fans and 2 ~5v wall warts. I planned on using on wall wart wired to a fan for the PS3 cabinet and then one for each shelf of the TV stand since the air between the 2 shelves seems completely blocked off. I priced 4.5" hole saws but they seem to go for around $35 plus the price of the mandrel which is really more than I want to spend on a saw I will probably never use again. Any have any suggestions on how else to make a fairly neat and round hole that won't destroy my new entertainment center?


For the 2 fans for the TV Stand I planned on piggy backing the molex connectors and running it off the 5V wall wart but am concerned it wont be enough voltage to power both fans adequately. The other option was to get a fan controller, but the fan for the PS3 in the pier is a far distance from the TV stand and I am unsure how to get that fan wired to the controller if I mount it in the TV stand.


Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for the help!



Here are some pics of my entertainment center:

http://www.ashleyfurniture.com/Showr...ItemNo=W551-23


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *carquote* /forum/post/15054130
> 
> 
> I priced 4.5" hole saws but they seem to go for around $35 plus the price of the mandrel which is really more than I want to spend on a saw I will probably never use again. Any have any suggestions on how else to make a fairly neat and round hole that won't destroy my new entertainment center?





One alternative to a hole saw, is a adjustable hole/circle cutter. Just be advised that they do NOT work as nice and clean as hole saws do, and they also tend to leave a more ragged edge. So if you decide to get one, pratice on a few pieces of scrap wood first, that is close to the same as what your entertainment center is built with where you intend to put the fans.


$12 plus whatever S&H costs are.

http://www.cvfsupplycompany.com/cihocuad.html 



And $20 at your local Sears.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...5293000P?mv=rr


----------



## carquote

Thanks for the help johnla! It's a shame I need this size hole saw. The 4 inch saws are much cheaper. I suppose the 4" saw won't work well and would cause excessive noise due to the fan being restricted and not fully vented?


EDIT: I just ordered a set of hole saws that includes a 4" saw, so I will try that and hope that the slightly smaller size does not cause any problems.


Now to figure out how to wire the fans. I found an old Motorola Surfboard cable modem power brick that is 12v 1.25A. I also have a 5.9v 375ma, a 5v 850ma and a 5v 550ma. Out of curiosity I cutoff the proprietary end of the cable and was expecting to see a red and black wire. To my surprise there was only a white insulated wire that was covered by a silver shielding wire much like a cable wire is covered by the shielding. Could the white wire be the power and the silver shielding the ground? I have never seen this before with a power cord.


Anyone know of a good place for me to ask some electrical questions. I need to figure out the best way to wire the fans up since I want the two fans that will go in the base of my TV stand to be on whenever my TV is on (will plug into UPS that TV is connected to as the trigger) and then have the other 120mm fan in the top of my pier go on when I use my PS3. I was thinking of either just wiring the wall wart and fan for the pier to a light switch to have it go on and off when needed and then connecting the two fans for the base together via 4 pin molex piggyback and plugging the wall wart into my UPS as the trigger. I'm not sure which wall warts I should use though. I was also thinking I might be able to use the 12v 1.25A power brick to power all 3 fans and just but I''m not sure what effects have 3 fans on hat size adapter will have. I know i will have more than enough power, but will the 12v be too much and cause the fans to be too loud, or will having the three wired together cause the fan to slow down to a reasonable level?


----------



## Josette

I bought a fan panel with a couple of 4 1/2 inch, 115v fans. I mounted them above and behind my receiver, so they blow air over the top of it and out the front of the entertainment center. First I had them wired in parallel - they produced a ton of airflow, but they were so loud they could only be used when I had some music cranked way up. So I wired them in series, figuring they might run at 1/2 their previous speed. No, they ran at about 5% of their previous speed. They were fairly quiet, but barely provided any airflow over the receiver. I suppose it was a little cooler than it would have been without them, but still too warm for my tastes.


So I got a variable speed control for a ceiling fan. Well, I found out that at any speed that keeps the receiver cool, they're too loud. The two fans run at almost the same speed, but not quite. It's like two notes that are slightly out of tune, drives me nuts. So then I disconnected one fan. It got rid of the out-of-tune problem, but it's still too loud.


Bah! I'm about ready to go back to the two of them wired in series. I'm kind of wondering about the 12v fans, if they would provide much airflow at all. I suppose I could throw away another fifty bucks and find out.


I'm going to end up spending more trying to keep the receiver cool than I paid for the damned receiver in the first place.







Should have just bought a Sony instead of this overheated Onkyo.


EDIT: I was fooling around with it some more and discovered something. My fans are mounted to an aluminum panel that's about 18" long and 5 or 6 inches high. When I put my hand on the panel, the noise reduced by about 50%. The fan can't seem to find what speed it wants to run at, it goes whoom-whoom-whoom for a while, then WHOOM-WHOOM-WHOOM as it increases its speed, then back to whoom-whoom-whoom, etc. Anyhow, it's apparently setting up a pretty good resonance in the aluminum panel. I took a rubber golf club grip, cut it to length, and stuck it between the back of the panel and the wall behind the entertainment center. It actually seems to have helped, the rubber seems to be absorbing some of that vibration and quieting it down. It still gets even quieter when I hold my hand against it, so I'm thinking maybe three more golf club grips. Cheaper than fans I guess


----------



## bricot

Finally completed my TV stand, changed the design from a separate component rack to one integrated with the TV. Used the Enlobal fans - very quiet. Used the low temp controllers so the fans kick on at 86 degrees and off at 76. I have used 2 controllers one in each component areas so they are cooled separately.


----------



## xKRUZx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlaavenger* /forum/post/15002400
> 
> 
> What is considered normal for cabinet temps when the PS3 or Dish VIP722 is running? I have the three fan cooling solution from Cooler Guys http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082231.html sucking air out and my temp runs as high as 95 or 96 degrees F. when running. Is this acceptible? Or do I need to look at addition cooling?



I too am curious what operating range temperature is ideal?


----------



## mycatsnameis

Has anyone used the 80 mm or 120 mm Enermax fans that Monoprice sells for this type of cooling set up? I've got three built-in cabinets with AV gear in separate rooms to cool. I've used Monprice cables and wall mounts for all my plasmas and am pretty happy with the price/quality ratio they provide.


I don't think they offer any 12v => 120V transformers though so would probably have to go and buy those from some of the suppliers listed in this thread.


----------



## xKRUZx

Post #243


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gosurf* /forum/post/13497523
> 
> 
> I use 2 of the 80mm ENERMAX Enlobal fans to cool my Onkyo 605. I have them in the rear of the cabinet exhausting air. I just completed the cooling fan setup last week so I can not comment on thier longevity. I can tell you that they are very quiet and move plenty of air. I connected the fans to an attic fan thermostat set to 85°F and placed it on top of the receiver over the hotest spot (right rear). The fans come on after the receiver has been on for about 5 minutes and turn off about 5 minutes after the receiver is turned off. Hope this helps - let me know if you want pics or other info.


----------



## mycatsnameis

D'oh! read througb teh first 8 pages and then skipped ahead. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.


A general question, I see people talking about recycling 12V power supplies from other gear to drive these computer fans with Molex connectors. I'm assuming that requires some electrical know how and cutting and splicing of the power cords right? Are there any hwo-to's for this type of work?


----------



## jstandfest

Hello, first time poster. I've read through this whole thread (all 12 pages) with great interest. I am going to install ventilation fans in my audio/video enclosure. I have a custom made built-in stand that is fully enclosed except for the front of the unit where I've currently got a 5-disc DVD changer, DirecTV DVR unit, old PS2 and a Pioneer receiver that is about to be replaced by an Onkyo 606 (which I've been told runs hot). The clearances around my components are fairly tight, 2-4" side and top clearance around all units.


My question is, I'm going to get one of the Cabcool801 or 802 units from coolerguys.com and each of these units comes with one or two Enermax Enobal marathon 80mm fans respectively that move 24cfm of air each. Would one fan setup to exhaust my enclosed cabinet on a temp controller be enough or should I go with the two fan unit?


Thanks for the help and wealth of information everyone on this site contributes to make it great.


----------



## DaveN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstandfest* /forum/post/15503747
> 
> 
> Hello, first time poster. I've read through this whole thread (all 12 pages) with great interest. I am going to install ventilation fans in my audio/video enclosure. I have a custom made built-in stand that is fully enclosed except for the front of the unit where I've currently got a 5-disc DVD changer, DirecTV DVR unit, old PS2 and a Pioneer receiver that is about to be replaced by an Onkyo 606 (which I've been told runs hot). The clearances around my components are fairly tight, 2-4" side and top clearance around all units.
> 
> 
> My question is, I'm going to get one of the Cabcool801 or 802 units from coolerguys.com and each of these units comes with one or two Enermax Enobal marathon 80mm fans respectively that move 24cfm of air each. Would one fan setup to exhaust my enclosed cabinet on a temp controller be enough or should I go with the two fan unit?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help and wealth of information everyone on this site contributes to make it great.



Welcome to the forum.










These are inexpensive enough and my motto is that more is better. Two separate fans one for intake and one for exhaust will do a better job than one fan. I use a pair of the Scythe S-FLEX and they are so quiet that noise is not an issue. Good luck....


----------



## xKRUZx

Anyone else having a problem location a SilenX 4 controller? Did they stop manufacturing them?


----------



## msdmoney




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xKRUZx* /forum/post/15511109
> 
> 
> Anyone else having a problem location a SilenX 4 controller? Did they stop manufacturing them?



I just received one today from FrozenCPU.com, for my new tv stand, along with four of the Scythe 120mm S-Flex fans.


I bought the Shemore TV Stand from Costco. I love the stand, but my 360 got the 2 red rings the first night (two red rings means overheated). Partially my fault for leaving the 360 PSU inside the cabinet, but it made me realize I needed something more to dissipate the heat.


The cabinet already has mesh screens on each of the shelves and at the bottom of the cabinet, perfect for an intake fan. Unfortunately the covers at the back of the cabinet are solid except for the slits for cables, so I will probably have to cut holes in the top of those for an exhaust (i'd rather not though). I might just try an intake fan at the base, and the exhaut at the cable slit. If they had added the mesh screens to the back of the cabinet it would have been perfect.


----------



## xKRUZx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *msdmoney* /forum/post/15512933
> 
> 
> I just received one today from FrozenCPU.com, for my new tv stand, along with four of the Scythe 120mm S-Flex fans.



You must have ordered the last one last week because all the sites mentiond in this thread and a general Google search is showing they are all out of stock.


Must be a fire-hazard issue with it.







I'll give you $20 for yours.


----------



## bricot

I have been told that temps above 88 degrees starts shortening component life.


I went with the low temp version of Coolerguys temp controller, I think it kicks on at 83 and off at 76.


I am very happy with the 120mm Enermax Enlobal fans I put in my cabinet, I have to get up and look through the filter screens to see if I can read the fan label in order to see if they are on or not, they are dang quiet.


Since I was cutting my 4" holes in thin material, I used a compass to draw the correct size circle and a Rotozip to cut the hole. Used the wide blue painters tape to cover the area, drew the circle on it, cut with rotozip through the tape, nice clean edges. The rotozip didn't seem to want to take off like a router does.


----------



## Josette

I finally ditched my 115 volt fans - just too noisy. Got some Scythe S-Flex fans, 800 rpm. Put one on top of the receiver, pulling the hot air up and out, and two more in a panel behind/above the receiver, bringing in cool air from behind the entertainment center.


Now my Onkyo is cool, and the fans are really nice and quiet. And they say money can't buy happiness


----------



## Josette




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mycatsnameis* /forum/post/15495180
> 
> 
> D'oh! read througb teh first 8 pages and then skipped ahead. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
> 
> 
> A general question, I see people talking about recycling 12V power supplies from other gear to drive these computer fans with Molex connectors. I'm assuming that requires some electrical know how and cutting and splicing of the power cords right? Are there any hwo-to's for this type of work?



You can buy the power supplies over here: http://www.coolerguys.com/extps.html


----------



## pdawg17

I don't know a lot about woodworking, etc so...:


If I screw fans into my built-in and then decide they are too loud and need different fans will I be able to screw new fans into the same holes I made for the original fans or will it be too loose? Or since the fans are going inside the cabinet but fan grills are going outside will just be putting screws all the way through and the grills somehow attach on the outside?


----------



## joeblack111




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pdawg17* /forum/post/15572496
> 
> 
> I don't know a lot about woodworking, etc so...:
> 
> 
> If I screw fans into my built-in and then decide they are too loud and need different fans will I be able to screw new fans into the same holes I made for the original fans or will it be too loose? Or since the fans are going inside the cabinet but fan grills are going outside will just be putting screws all the way through and the grills somehow attach on the outside?



If you replace them with the same size fan I don't see why not.


----------



## TomP10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bricot* /forum/post/15188096
> 
> 
> Finally completed my TV stand, changed the design from a separate component rack to one integrated with the TV. Used the Enlobal fans - very quiet. Used the low temp controllers so the fans kick on at 86 degrees and off at 76. I have used 2 controllers one in each component areas so they are cooled separately.



Love the look of the mod... what filter/cover did you use on the exterior?


- Tom


----------



## PerfectCr

Dumb question. I've built PC for years and done tons of custom mods. One thing I don't know is how would I use a PC fan (with the 3-pin connectors) in a home theater application. Is there some kind of converter in order to be able to plug it into the wall? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks!


----------



## TomP10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PerfectCr* /forum/post/15636211
> 
> 
> Dumb question. I've built PC for years and done tons of custom mods. One thing I don't know is how would I use a PC fan (with the 3-pin connectors) in a home theater application. Is there some kind of converter in order to be able to plug it into the wall? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks!



As someone who is also working on a solution, let me suggest


(1) AC power

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html 


and


(2) 3 --> 4 pin adapter
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087021.html 



If you are going to hook-up more than one fan, you might also need a splitter


http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087083.html 



- Tom


----------



## The Tophinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PerfectCr* /forum/post/15636211
> 
> 
> Dumb question. I've built PC for years and done tons of custom mods. One thing I don't know is how would I use a PC fan (with the 3-pin connectors) in a home theater application. Is there some kind of converter in order to be able to plug it into the wall? Sorry if this is a stupid question. Thanks!



After reading what others here have done I went thru my junk pile at work and picked out a 12v transformer and PC fan that would run within it's capacity. (the PC fan only needs two of the three connectors. I also scrapped a three pin connector to make it easier to remove the fan from the transformer).











I did find the PC fan I used to be noisy within my home theater so I upgraded the fan to a 120mm silent one that also used low enough energy I could have used two. It still didn't have enough draw sitting between my Surround unit and my stand so I built a box to go between the two and force the air out the back.











It's hardly noticeable to see or hear.


----------



## PerfectCr

Wow thanks. Maybe I'll buy an A/C fan from FrozenCPU.com.


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TomP10* /forum/post/15630152
> 
> 
> Love the look of the mod... what filter/cover did you use on the exterior?
> 
> 
> - Tom



Thanks, the red in the floors made the cabinet look a little less red than it was in the shop, I stained it a cherry.


I got these from cooler guys ( 120mm Aluminum Fan Filter Grill in Black or Silver 840556035336 qty 4 $ 3.95 Color = Black).


Not sure what your mounting them into, I mounted them into 1/8" oak plywood - the space between the panel and the fan was too great for stock fan screws to work, so I used black brads (found in craft stores), poked them through the holes in the paneling, bent over the dog ears and hot glued them in place. Works great so far.


----------



## dbone1026

I just recently got a built in wall unit for my family room. One of the cabinets is set up to be an A/V cabinet. The devices that will be in the cabinet:


Cable/DVR box

PS3

Xbox 360

HTPC

Receiver (in the pic you will see an HDMI splitter in its place, been fighting with Butterfly Photo for some time over a defective receiver they sold me







)


Since it is a built in there is no access to air at the back of the cabinet. The cabinet was designed with slits at the top to allow airflow out. There is a small space from the end of each shelf to the back of the cabinet to allow airflow. Also, there is a space between the bottom of the cabinet and the floor. Any suggestions on what the best way to cool the cabinet, and what components to use? The first picture attached is the top of the A/V cabinet where the slits are to allow air out. The second picture attached is the inside of the cabinet.


----------



## xKRUZx

Hmmmm....a couple PC fans mounted horizontally to the top of the inside of the cabinet over the slat openings might be a start.


The air would be drawn in through the doors (I assume they have some gaps) through all six shelf compartments, and out through the top.


While the 6 seperate shelves might look good, I think the shelves themselves are your greatest barrier to an efficient air flow. Maybe remove a few and stack some components?


I actually drilled a few dozen 1/8" holes in my one shelf...its twice as wide as yours but then again I didnt have any venting in mine. My AVR sits below the shelf and my 360, BDK35, and DVR sit on the shelf. I have dual Scythe 80 fans mounted on the back wall high in the cabinet. It works well for me.


----------



## dbone1026




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xKRUZx* /forum/post/15798044
> 
> 
> Hmmmm....a couple PC fans mounted horizontally to the top of the inside of the cabinet over the slat openings might be a start.
> 
> 
> The air would be drawn in through the doors (I assume they have some gaps) through all six shelf compartments, and out through the top.
> 
> 
> While the 6 seperate shelves might look good, I think the shelves themselves are your greatest barrier to an efficient air flow. Maybe remove a few and stack some components?
> 
> 
> I actually drilled a few dozen 1/8" holes in my one shelf...its twice as wide as yours but then again I didnt have any venting in mine. My AVR sits below the shelf and my 360, BDK35, and DVR sit on the shelf. I have dual Scythe 80 fans mounted on the back wall high in the cabinet. It works well for me.



Thanks for the reply. I was thinking about putting some fans on the underside of the slits as you mentioned. I am sure there is a small gap where the doors are but it is pretty minimal (plus I have a child lock over the knobs to keep my son out, so I am sure that further restricts air). Did you find that drilling holes in the shelf helped? I was thinking about doing something similar as you mentioned the shelves are a big block to airflow? Currently if I use my PS3 I need to leave the cabinet door open. If not then soon after I turn it on it sounds like an airport in my house... Ideally I would like to have fans that only turn on after the inside reaches a certain temperature.


----------



## dbone1026

So I had a chance to look at my cabinet again last night. The shelves actually have a cut out in the back (kind of like a 1/4 moon) which should allow sufficient air to move from the back up and out through the grills/slits at the top of the cabinet. I was thinking about getting a cooling stand for my receiver and htpc which would be positioned towards the back where the cut out is to move the air up towards the top of the cabinet. I would then get a fan cooler to place on the underside of the grills/slits to push the air out through the grills. What do you guys think?


Cooling Stand - http://www.coolerguys.com/ccstandk.html 

Dual Fan Cooler - http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082224.html


----------



## xKRUZx

I'll have to take some pictures of my setup over the weekend. The shelf holes help, I also have a 1" holesaw hole for routing cables from above and below the shelf which helps the airflow similar to your cutout. I think the 1/8" holes help as well but its only my AVR below.


Those dual metal cooling contraptions seem like overkill and look noisy. Plus they are a ton of money.


If you really want a thermostat, Coolerguys sells a temp controll that kicks on at 84. I just ran my AC/DC molex converter to my AVR switched outlet so when its on the fans are on.


----------



## dbone1026




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xKRUZx* /forum/post/15803779
> 
> 
> I'll have to take some pictures of my setup over the weekend. The shelf holes help, I also have a 1" holesaw hole for routing cables from above and below the shelf which helps the airflow similar to your cutout. I think the 1/8" holes help as well but its only my AVR below.
> 
> 
> Those dual metal cooling contraptions seem like overkill and look noisy. Plus they are a ton of money.
> 
> 
> If you really want a thermostat, Coolerguys sells a temp controll that kicks on at 84. I just ran my AC/DC molex converter to my AVR switched outlet so when its on the fans are on.



Thanks for the feedback


----------



## AV TechnologyGuy

Remember to try to get the air to travel through the audio and video equipment. A common mistake is to have fans at the back or front of the enclosure which just moves the air around the the components and cools them minimally. This is due to the fact that the moving air will take the path of least resistance. If that occurs, then there will still be air that remains "static" and uncooled.


----------



## uniquetreatone

I have a Laurier(cortana?) tv stand.I see everyone drills holes in the back of the cabinets but not in the floor.I have 3 fans blowing out air the in each compartment but my ps3 fans still blows pretty loud sometimes.I ordered 2 more fans because I was thinking of cutting holes in the floor of the cabinet and place the fans here to blow air up into the compartments and out to the top back to the exhaust fans.The fans are all Scynthe S-Flex 1600 rpm.If this is the wrong thing please let me know.Man I was reading this thread too long it's time for me to get to work.


----------



## trekguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uniquetreatone* /forum/post/15839569
> 
> 
> I have a Laurier(cortana?) tv stand.I see everyone drills holes in the back of the cabinets but not in the floor.I have 3 fans blowing out air the in each compartment but my ps3 fans still blows pretty loud sometimes.I ordered 2 more fans because I was thinking of cutting holes in the floor of the cabinet and place the fans here to blow air up into the compartments and out to the top back to the exhaust fans.The fans are all Scynthe S-Flex 1600 rpm.If this is the wrong thing please let me know.Man I was reading this thread too long it's time for me to get to work.



Air intake openings should be located as far from the exhaust port as possible. If that is not practical a baffle of some sort should be used to force the intake air to a position where it will flow up through and over the equipment. I use a pull out shelf on full extension slides to baffle the intake air which enters from the bottom of the cabinet. Holes in the shelf direct the air flow up under the heat sinks of the receiver. Forcing the air to turn corners also causes it to drop some of the dust is carries.


There is little/no benefit from adding intake fans, but there may be a gain from adding either an internal circulation fan or a second exhaust fan.


----------



## uniquetreatone

thanks trek guy. I followed your advice and it worked out. I have not heard the fans on my ps3 since and all my other componets are cool to touch.Thanks again.


----------



## Zzz..oltan!

Just wanted to thank the OP for this thread. Also AVSForum rocks! My receiver keeps going into protect mode due to insufficient ventillation. I just finished placing an order for some parts found in this thread from Coolerguys. Hope my troubles will be gone...


Thanks again, guys.


----------



## Zzz..oltan!

BTW, stuff ordered from Coolerguys:


120mm Chrome Fan Grill / 840556041153 6 0.90

Guard

Fan Case Screws Black or 840556020424 8 0.36 Color = Silver

Silver ( pack of 4)

Mechatronics Fan 840556081456 6 0.99

Mounts/Fan Vibration

Isolators VI-1- Quantity

(4)

Coolerguys 120x120x25mm 840556088417 2 12.95

USB Fan with Grill

4-Pin Molex power 840556087083 1 3.95

splitter 12 inch Black

Sealed

110v AC to 12v DC Power 840556087977 1 10.95

Supply with 4 Pin Molex

(500mA)

Velcro Tie Wrap 3/4 inch 840556052968 10 0.89

velcro wrap-Black (sold

per foot)

Scythe S-FLEX (SFF21D) 840556025443 2 14.95 Model Option = SFF21D 800rpm

(SFF21E) (SFF21F)

(SFF21G) 120mm S-FDB

Quiet Fans

Subtotal 93.82

Shipping 10.00

Tax 0.00

Total 103.82


----------



## TheWind

I don't have switched outputs on any of my AV equipment. Therefore, I want/need an inexpensive thermostat on/off control for my DIY AV fan.


Does anyone have experience with either of the following two thermostat products or have an opinion on which might be better?

Coolerguys Thermal Fan Controller > http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html 


Cool Components Basic Temp Controller > http://www.coolcomponents.com/Basic-..._p_13-220.html 
I've also seen posts, in this thread, recommending attic fan thermostats for this purpose. That looks like a good way to go, but I've called and driven around and the only thing I've found is both very large and too expensive. I haven't found one online that seems certain enough to order. (Some don't give dimensions and that could result in a big surprise.) I assume that's what is being used here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Receiver-Amp-the...3A1%7C294%3A50 
If I could get just the thermostat controller, or something like it, at a good price that might be good. - Fwiw, I won't be putting it directly on my receiver; just near it.



If anyone knows of other such products that might be as good, or better, please let me know!


Thanks,

Dave


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/16043918
> 
> 
> I don't have switched outputs on any of my AV equipment. Therefore, I want/need an inexpensive thermostat on/off control for my DIY AV fan.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have experience with either of the following two thermostat products or have an opinion on which might be better?
> 
> Coolerguys Thermal Fan Controller > http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html
> 
> 
> Cool Components Basic Temp Controller > http://www.coolcomponents.com/Basic-..._p_13-220.html
> I've also seen posts, in this thread, recommending attic fan thermostats for this purpose. That looks like a good way to go, but I've called and driven around and the only thing I've found is both very large and too expensive. I haven't found one online that seems certain enough to order. (Some don't give dimensions and that could result in a big surprise.) I assume that's what is being used here:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Receiver-Amp-the...3A1%7C294%3A50
> If I could get just the thermostat controller, or something like it, at a good price that might be good. - Fwiw, I won't be putting it directly on my receiver; just near it.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone knows of other such products that might be as good, or better, please let me know!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dave



I'm using two of the low temp thermal fan controllers from coolerguys and they work well.


----------



## TheWind

bricot,


Thanks. When you say low temp thermal fan controllers, do you mean an almost identical unit that turns on and off at slightly lower temps than the one that I linked to?


How long have you been using them? Any issues?


----------



## CNibbana




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bricot* /forum/post/16053041
> 
> 
> I'm using two of the low temp thermal fan controllers from coolerguys and they work well.



Are they reliable at turning on at the specified temp?


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/16062067
> 
> 
> bricot,
> 
> 
> Thanks. When you say low temp thermal fan controllers, do you mean an almost identical unit that turns on and off at slightly lower temps than the one that I linked to?
> 
> 
> How long have you been using them? Any issues?



Back when I ordered them they had two options for the on/off temp range, it looks like with the new version they have gone with a single temp range. (They also used to have a choice of internal or external probe but the button is gone, thats the empty square you see in the picture) Not sure if it does both now or not. I am using the external probe routed to a corner that I think probably gets the least air flow.


I've been using them for ~6 months, I ordered them shortly after they started producing them, I had issues with the earlier model (within days) but they replaced them with the model you linked to and they have worked fine ever since. I still check every once in awhile when I've been running something for awhile, see if the fans are running and then open the door and stick my hand in check air temp and circulation. They are doing a great job, really like the 120mm Enlobal fans, very quiet.


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CNibbana* /forum/post/16065584
> 
> 
> Are they reliable at turning on at the specified temp?



I haven't tested the advertised 'On' temp specifically, on a number of occasions I have grabbed the probe between my fingers and the fans would kick on within a couple of seconds. I did this out in my shop this winter which was pretty cool and my finger weren't at their normal temp










I was constantly opening the door and checking air temps after I first got all my components in and running, the fans would be running and the air inside the cabinet was barely warmer than the house air @70 degrees. I havent thought of anything that I could dial in at 87 degrees to test the trigger point.


----------



## topperdude

I am using an Antec A/V cooler on top of my Yamaha receiver. Currently, the A/V cooler is plugged into the Yamaha's switched power outlets and it gets turned on everytime the receiver is turned on. I would like to turn it on only when the temperature reaches a certain point within the cabinet - I wonder if there is a thermal sensor product that I can plug into the receiver and the A/V cooler into this sensor so it will switch on/off power to the Antec A/V cooler only when the temperature reaches a certain point? The thermal fan controllers linked in recent posts in this thread seem to be for only the type of fans that are used in PCs?


Thanks for any input,

-Topper


----------



## pwygant

Topperdude:


How do you like the Antec Cooler? I bought mine about a week ago and honestly I don't think it does anything to my components? My setup is currently as follows:

http://www.jsp-industries.com/Pages/Bolero.html (High end piece of furniture from Canada. I needed a large opening for my Center. It has front glass doors and Chimney style ventilation for air.


On the left I have my Amp on the bottom with about 5 inches of clearance and top shelf houses my HD DVR.


On the right I have my DVD player on the top (Doesn't ever get even warm) and my PS3on the bottom shelf.


The AMP and DVR compartment gets hot as heck and I initially bought the Antec unit to keep the DVR cooler, but after much testing I found that the AMP is what is sending the heat up so I placed it on top of the amp. All in all, that area still gets extremely hot and I think I'm just going to send back the Antec unit as it is too loud on the high setting.


Does jigsawing bigger holes in the back help out at all you think? The back ventilation openings are fairly small and I might even drill large 1 inchholes everywhere.


----------



## rvp819

I just ordered a Noctua 80mm fan to help draw heat out of my AV cabinet, and I'm looking for a ducting solution so the fan will draw air above my receiver instead of near the back panel where it will be installed.


Does anyone have any suggestions aside from flex duct used for HVAC or clothes dryer, available at the hardware store.


Thanks!


----------



## topperdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pwygant* /forum/post/16111440
> 
> 
> Topperdude:
> 
> 
> How do you like the Antec Cooler? I bought mine about a week ago and honestly I don't think it does anything to my components? My setup is currently as follows:
> 
> http://www.jsp-industries.com/Pages/Bolero.html (High end piece of furniture from Canada. I needed a large opening for my Center. It has front glass doors and Chimney style ventilation for air.
> 
> 
> On the left I have my Amp on the bottom with about 5 inches of clearance and top shelf houses my HD DVR.
> 
> 
> On the right I have my DVD player on the top (Doesn't ever get even warm) and my PS3on the bottom shelf.
> 
> 
> The AMP and DVR compartment gets hot as heck and I initially bought the Antec unit to keep the DVR cooler, but after much testing I found that the AMP is what is sending the heat up so I placed it on top of the amp. All in all, that area still gets extremely hot and I think I'm just going to send back the Antec unit as it is too loud on the high setting.
> 
> 
> Does jigsawing bigger holes in the back help out at all you think? The back ventilation openings are fairly small and I might even drill large 1 inchholes everywhere.



I dont have much experience with the Antec A/V cooler unit yet as we just installed it this past weekend into our living room wall unit . I did read some good reviews about it on newegg, amazon as well as independant reviewers before purchasing (even though Antec's own literature says it only moves between 5.5CFM to 8 CFM of air - go figure







) .


Anyhow, we have the A/V cooler with the other components in left lower cabinet (the one with glass doors and three shelves). This cabinet only has one 2" hole in the back (verified with my 2" hole saw), and about 1/3 to 1/2 of the hole is used to route the different wires in/out of the unit. The components are stacked as follows: The power conditioner/surge protector (PF30L) on the bottom shelf, Wii + Popcorn hour + network switch (SMC7004BR) in the middle shelf, the receiver (RX-V1200) on the topmost shelf, the A/V cooler on top of the receiver such that the top of the receiver + bottom of cooler is roughly aligned with the hole in the back and finally, an original Xbox with XBMC on top of the Antec cooler. Not sure if this will provide enough air flow but keeping our fingers crossed.


In case we need additional cooling, I wonder if a product such as the Antec Spotcool fan , placed near the rear 2" hole might help push warm air out of the cabinet? We hope to avoid drilling additional holes in the cabinet, so would appreciate any input from forum members.


Would also appreciate input regarding my original query regarding a power plug with temperature sensor that turns on power (to A/V cooler) when temperature reaches a certain level and turns off when it is cool enough - does such a product exist and if so any pointers to a good place where I can purchase this?


Thanks,

-Topper


----------



## TheWind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bricot* /forum/post/16103426
> 
> 
> ....they have worked fine.... They are doing a great job....



Thanks - I ordered a Coolerguys Thermal Fan Controller (and its AC/DC adapter) today!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *topperdude* /forum/post/16113088
> 
> 
> Would also appreciate input regarding my original query regarding a power plug with temperature sensor that turns on power (to A/V cooler) when temperature reaches a certain level and turns off when it is cool enough - does such a product exist and if so any pointers to a good place where I can purchase this?



My guess is that you're better off with the fan just plugged into your receiver, like you have it now. If I had a switched outlet available with my setup, I wouldn't bother with getting a thermal controller because it would just add more wires, plugs and expense without any significant benefit. - I won't have first hand knowledge until after my order arrives, but I assume that a receiver will get hot enough to activate a thermal controller very quickly, so the fan will be on at least as long with a thermal controller as without one.


As far as a product that does this, there are several mentioned in this thread, including three in my one of my previous posts. Here's one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Receiver-Amp-the...3A1%7C294%3A50 


You should take a look at the sellers other items too.


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/16126097
> 
> 
> Thanks - I ordered a Coolerguys Thermal Fan Controller (and its AC/DC adapter) today!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that you're better off with the fan just plugged into your receiver, like you have it now. If I had a switched outlet available with my setup, I wouldn't bother with getting a thermal controller because it would just add more wires, plugs and expense without any significant benefit. - I won't have first hand knowledge until after my order arrives, but I assume that a receiver will get hot enough to activate a thermal controller very quickly, so the fan will be on at least as long with a thermal controller as without one.



The problem with the switch outlets that I saw was that when you turn off the receiver then off goes the fan but the receiver is still as hot as it was that required cooling. I didn't want that heat building up in my cabinet baking my components until passive cooling dropped the temp. If you have run your stuff for awhile and heated up everything inside the cabinet, including the interior of the cabinet, I would think the temp would spike if everything just turned off. I have other components as well, like my satellite receiver in there that are running when my receiver isn't.


I know my fans run for awhile after shutting everything down before the temp drops enough for them to turn off.


----------



## TheWind

Bricot,


Yeah, I guess I can see that there can be some benefit/advantage in using the thermal controller rather than the switched outlet.


Btw, my Coolerguys Thermal Controller is now doing its thing in my open backed, mini entertainment center. My need is to keep my JVC RX-702 receiver (digital amplification) cool. It’s, without question, the hottest running piece of audio/video equipment I have ever used – nothing else ever came close. This Thermal Controller is exactly what I wanted. I have it running a SilenX Ixtrema Pro Series 120mm Fan (14dBA/72cfm). If I turn off everything, have the room very quiet and carefully listen, I can hear it, but just barely. I could have returned it (to Fry’s) and tried the SilenX 11db or 9db version, but this 14dBA/ 72cfm fan does a really amazing job of keeping the receiver cool and the sound is pretty much imperceptible most all the time.


Thanks again


----------



## jszei

I will be putting in some Noctua fans inside my cabinetry.

The Noctua fans are the quietest fans on the market by the way, I've done a bit of research. Here's some info.
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=nf_s1...parison&lng=en 


I'll also be using the fan controller from Cooler Guys.


My equipment includes a Marantz AVR, a PS3, Directv box and most likely a Blu-ray player when Oppo releases theirs. I will also have the Panamax M5100-PM in the cabinet.


Based on that load does anyone know how many fans it will take to cool an enclosed cabinet with them? My thought is 1 fan pushing air in at the base and 1 fan pulling air out at the top. Is that enough circulation?


Thanks


----------



## TheWind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jszei* /forum/post/16190174
> 
> 
> I will be putting in some Noctua fans inside my cabinetry.
> 
> The Noctua fans are the quietest fans on the market by the way, I've done a bit of research. Here's some info.
> http://noctua.at/main.php?show=nf_s1...parison&lng=en
> 
> 
> I'll also be using the fan controller from Cooler Guys.
> 
> 
> My equipment includes a Marantz AVR, a PS3, Directv box and most likely a Blu-ray player when Oppo releases theirs. I will also have the Panamax M5100-PM in the cabinet.
> 
> 
> Based on that load does anyone know how many fans it will take to cool an enclosed cabinet with them? My thought is 1 fan pushing air in at the base and 1 fan pulling air out at the top. Is that enough circulation?
> 
> 
> Thanks



Those Noctua fans look nice. But, fwiw ~ Maybe I'm missing something, but the SilenX Ixtrema Pro Line seems to generate much greater airflow while being quieter and a little less expensive.

Noctua NF-P12 @1300 RPM*54.32* CFM*19.8* dB(A)Noctua NF-P12 @1100 RPM?16.9 dB(A)Noctua NF-P12 @900 RPM?12.6 dB(A)SilenX IXP-76-181400 RPM*90* CFM*18* dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-141200 RPM*72* CFM*14* dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-111100 RPM46 CFM11 dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-09800 RPM38 CFM9 dB(A)
Not trying to say mine's quieter than yours, or such. I'm just suggesting that you might get much better circulation with a SilenX Ixtrema Pro without giving up anything.


----------



## jszei

I'm using the NF-S12 in my cabinet




Size 120x120x25 mm

Bearing SSO-Bearing

Blade Geometry Straight-Blade-Design

Rotational Speed (+/- 10%) 1200 RPM

Rotational Speed with U.L.N.A. (+/- 10%) 600 RPM

Airflow 81 m³/h

Airflow with U.L.N.A. 41 m³/h

Acoustical Noise 17 dB(A)

Acoustical Noise with U.L.N.A. 
Input Power 1,44 W

Input Current 0,12 A

Voltage Range 4-13 V

MTBF > 150.000 h

Scope of Delivery

Ultra-Low-Noise Adaptor (U.L.N.A.)

4 Vibration Compensators

3:4-Pin Adaptor

4 Fan Screws

Warranty 6 years


----------



## stoneag




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/16192654
> 
> 
> Those Noctua fans look nice. But, fwiw ~ Maybe I'm missing something, but the SilenX Ixtrema Pro Line seems to generate much greater airflow while being quieter and a little less expensive.
> 
> Noctua NF-P12 @1300 RPM*54.32* CFM*19.8* dB(A)Noctua NF-P12 @1100 RPM?16.9 dB(A)Noctua NF-P12 @900 RPM?12.6 dB(A)SilenX IXP-76-181400 RPM*90* CFM*18* dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-141200 RPM*72* CFM*14* dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-111100 RPM46 CFM11 dB(A)SilenX IXP-74-09800 RPM38 CFM9 dB(A)
> Not trying to say mine's quieter than yours, or such. I'm just suggesting that you might get much better circulation with a SilenX Ixtrema Pro without giving up anything.



I have a PS3 and Marantz SR4002 with an HD-20 HD-DVR and use 2 Scythe fans http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html at 800rpm. I have all my equipment in an enclosed built in beside a gas fireplace. there is probably 12" between the fireplace and the A/V stuff and I rarely have the fireplace on but the fans are both exhausting the warm air trapped behind the components into the wall behind the built in and out into the room from an air register a few inches from the ceiling in the room behind the TV room. Since doing this set up, I have not had my PS3 fan go above a slight hum and is not audible from my viewing area about 10 ft away. Previosly when watching standard DVDs the fan would get to it's highest level in 20-30 mins. and was so loud that it forced raising volume of the movie.


----------



## jszei




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stoneag* /forum/post/16200256
> 
> 
> I have a PS3 and Marantz SR4002 with an HD-20 HD-DVR and use 2 Scythe fans http://www.coolerguys.com/sff21.html at 800rpm. I have all my equipment in an enclosed built in beside a gas fireplace. there is probably 12" between the fireplace and the A/V stuff and I rarely have the fireplace on but the fans are both exhausting the warm air trapped behind the components into the wall behind the built in and out into the room from an air register a few inches from the ceiling in the room behind the TV room. Since doing this set up, I have not had my PS3 fan go above a slight hum and is not audible from my viewing area about 10 ft away. Previosly when watching standard DVDs the fan would get to it's highest level in 20-30 mins. and was so loud that it forced raising volume of the movie.



Thanks Stoneag, this is very similar to what I'm doing. My cabinet will be next to the gas fireplace as well. It's good to know that the heat from the fire doesn't impact the heat in the cabinet.

I haven't cut into the wall yet but I don't think I'll be exhausting into the wall itself but instead to the side of the cabinet. I can regulate the Noctua fans to spin at a lower RPM if needed.


----------



## IMaNewbie

*USB powered fans?*

2 devices: Tivo HD and PS3

Glass door enclosed tv stand: http://www.elite-inds.com/series_pro...?ProductID=746 


I am thinking of placing two USB powered fans (one for each side) as an exhaust toward the rear of cabinet where there already is a hole for cables. There are only 2 products I've really come across for this. Any comments on using these USB fans.. not mentioned in the entire thread until now. I think they should work for me since they are "plug & play" and my devices act as switches when I plug the fans into their USB ports.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088417.html 
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Produc...C=1165&ID=1801


----------



## gcjones1

I have two of the Mobile Fan II's hook upto a USB Hub and it works great. The USB hubs is connected to my TV, so they only turn on when the TV powers up.


----------



## ccotenj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/16160864
> 
> 
> Bricot,
> 
> 
> Yeah, I guess I can see that there can be some benefit/advantage in using the thermal controller rather than the switched outlet.
> 
> 
> Btw, my Coolerguys Thermal Controller is now doing its thing in my open backed, mini entertainment center. My need is to keep my JVC RX-702 receiver (digital amplification) cool. It's, without question, the hottest running piece of audio/video equipment I have ever used - nothing else ever came close. This Thermal Controller is exactly what I wanted. I have it running a SilenX Ixtrema Pro Series 120mm Fan (14dBA/72cfm). If I turn off everything, have the room very quiet and carefully listen, I can hear it, but just barely. I could have returned it (to Fry's) and tried the SilenX 11db or 9db version, but this 14dBA/ 72cfm fan does a really amazing job of keeping the receiver cool and the sound is pretty much imperceptible most all the time.
> 
> 
> Thanks again



did you put the fan right on top of the avr blowing down onto it, or did you mount it? i have an small open backed cabinet that an avr is baking in, and i'm trying to decide the best way to go about it...


----------



## TheWind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ccotenj* /forum/post/16248879
> 
> 
> did you put the fan right on top of the avr blowing down onto it, or did you mount it? i have an small open backed cabinet that an avr is baking in, and i'm trying to decide the best way to go about it...



Sorry if it seemed that I have ignored your question!! Somehow, I just plain missed your post and since there hasn’t been any recent activity in this thread, (or so I thought) I haven’t even looked at it. – Till today.


Anyway, fwiw after almost two weeks (Again, sorry!): I hang my fan off the back of my open backed, mini entertainment center.


With the grill screws, I attached rubber strips to the fans intake side. I then used stick-on Velcro tabs to affix the other end of the rubber strips to the top of the shelf above the JVC so the fan hangs down directly behind the JVC. It pulls air, from the front, across the top and bottom of the JVC RX702.


To achieve the best airflow:

I raised the JVC slightly by putting ½ inch rubber bumpers on the JVC’s feet.

In my setup, angling the fan slightly upward greatly increased airflow under the JVC while still providing great airflow in the larger, open space above the JVC.

The front of my entertainment center has swinging glass doors which I leave closed in the most open way. (You know how those magnetic click-closers have two closed positions.) This results in about ½ inch gap between the two doors as well as an increased opening around the doors.


If you are considering the SilenX fans, I still don’t know whether to recommend the 14db one that I kept or the 11db one, which I never tried.


----------



## cigga24




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gcjones1* /forum/post/16244528
> 
> 
> I have two of the Mobile Fan II's hook upto a USB Hub and it works great. The USB hubs is connected to my TV, so they only turn on when the TV powers up.



Dude you may have just saved me $20. I was thinking of getting a usb fan for my ps3 but after reading all 14pgs of this thread i was sold on the ac-dc plug.


Question, i read my owner manual (pioneer 5080hd) and it doesnt say anything about usb power. It says i cant connect a hub to it though but i'm wondering if two fans would be less power than a digicamera which would count as one device. Does your tv say it can power multiple devices? In any case i can plug the hub into my power conditioner and just do a 24/7 setup.


Also is either of these usb fans as quiet as the dc fans? I cant find any db/cfm specs on them?


----------



## Bob7145

New SilentX cabinet cooling kit. 2 high flow fans, controller, ducts, expandable to 5 fans.








http://www.crazypc.com/products/ixa-ccs-1800.html


----------



## crakarjax

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1148054 


Posted that yesterday. Cost me about $15, but I had a lot of stuff lying around.


----------



## terriblecow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/16474674
> 
> 
> New SilentX cabinet cooling kit. 2 high flow fans, controller, ducts, expandable to 5 fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LINK



This Silenx option looks nice and easy, but I can't find anywhere if it's temperature controlled or just always on.

I think the dial there may be for fan speed, but I don't really know.


Anybody got any ideas???


----------



## myoda

Is there a way to toggle the temp readout on the Onkyo 806 to display Farenheit? Also, not to sound like a noob, what do the other readings mean? (see attached) The Antec A/V cooler looks nice, but I don't think it does anything for my receiver at either the high or low speeds. Under load, the receiver does not exceed 55 degrees C, about 125 F, which is pretty hot. I have a open back cabinet, and can feel hot air ducting from the rear of the A/V cooler, but see no relative temp drop. Holds steady with or without the Antec unit. Comments? Thanks.


----------



## Bob7145

For best performance (cooling) a fan should be placed on top of the receiver blowing UP, sucking the hot air out of the amp.

For those with equipment in a cabinet... do you think your car would overheat if you left it running full throttle in the garage with the door closed?


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/16640634
> 
> 
> For best performance (cooling) a fan should be placed on top of the receiver blowing UP, sucking the hot air out of the amp.
> 
> For those with equipment in a cabinet... do you think your car would overheat if you left it running full throttle in the garage with the door closed?



No. It would stall due to lack of oxygen.


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/16642871
> 
> 
> No. It would stall due to lack of oxygen.


*WARNING! KIDS DONT TRY THIS AT HOME!*


If you decide to ignore the warning please be sure that you are not in the garage with the car thats running while the door is closed.


----------



## addict777

I have a Middle Atlantic 44u enclosed rack that had heat problems. I recently purchased a ERK-10FT-FC by Middle Atlantic fan unit which is thermostat controlled, which is nice, but talk about noisy. This 10" fan cannot run while watching a movie. Its too loud.


My enclosed rack in my theater room actually sits within the attic. The cool air from theater room is sucked in from the vents at bottom of rack and hot air is sucked out the top with the above model fan unit. So it works great, but its just too noisy...


Anyone out there know if the 10" fan tha can be purchased so I can swap them out with a quieter one from another manufacturer?


Any help would be appreciated. I am glad I found this site. There is alot of good information here...


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *addict777* /forum/post/16715341
> 
> 
> I have a Middle Atlantic 44u enclosed rack that had heat problems. I recently purchased a ERK-10FT-FC by Middle Atlantic fan unit which is thermostat controlled, which is nice, but talk about noisy. This 10" fan cannot run while watching a movie. Its too loud.
> 
> 
> My enclosed rack in my theater room actually sits within the attic. The cool air from theater room is sucked in from the vents at bottom of rack and hot air is sucked out the top with the above model fan unit. So it works great, but its just too noisy...
> 
> 
> Anyone out there know if the 10" fan tha can be purchased so I can swap them out with a quieter one from another manufacturer?
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated. I am glad I found this site. There is alot of good information here...



Try using a lower voltage power source. It will slow the fan down and reduce it's loudness.


----------



## Bob7145

I have a 24U cabinet that came with 2 120V 120mm X 25mm fans in the top. NOISY. Swapped them out with 2 120mm x 25mm 12v (computer) fans with another fan placed directly on top of the AVR and the SilentX multi-fan controller with the wall wart plugged into the switched AVR outlet. Placing the AVR on the top shelf just below the cabinet fans helps too.










Fans - http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g36/...ml?id=aJAgZghu 


250mm 12v fan - http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/...ans-Page1.html 


360mm 12v - http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/...ans-Page1.html


----------



## Scarfather

So what's the best thing to do: cool the component or push the hot air out of the cabinet?


I'm looking to keep my Onkyo 605 and PS3 cool. I know that blowing air in the cabinet is not good because it will increase the amount of dust.


----------



## AV TechnologyGuy

Scarfather,


It is a very good idea to cool your components. It will extend the life and inprove performance. Electronics perfrom better when they are cool. Some actually misbehave when the temperature is beyond room temperature. There ar a lot of myths about cooling and how it is done. Put simply, you need to establish a forced path. That means that the air can only pass over your components. Putting a fan at the back is usually not effective because it just draws air across the back of the components. This is known as "Thermal Management."


Here are some simple solutions:

ATM - Active Thermal Management 


You can make a large hole in the bottom of your shelves, beneath your components. Make sure that through the wholes is the only significant path for the air to travel. Draw the air out from the top of the encloure with some sort of fan.


Hopefully, this helps.


----------



## Bob7145

Most AV cabinets are furniture designed to hide electronics, kinda like storing chocolate above a stove.

Server cabinets aren't too pretty but work real well. Mine is a 24U (about 5') tall, 25" x 25" with a magnetic (like refrigerator) acrylic door, designed for vertical airflow. Fans at the top. Standard 19" rackmount ventilated shelves, powerstrip, drawers, HTPC, power amp, AVR.


More stuff, pretty good variety.







http://www.acousticpc.com/acoustirack.html


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scarfather* /forum/post/16750036
> 
> 
> So what's the best thing to do: cool the component or push the hot air out of the cabinet?
> 
> 
> I'm looking to keep my Onkyo 605 and PS3 cool. I know that blowing air in the cabinet is not good because it will increase the amount of dust.



I am pushing air into the cabinets (Positive pressure), I use filter screens on the fans, that way ANY air coming into the cabinet is filtered. This works very well for me, I opened it up the other day and still no need to dust!


Positive pressure makes sense to me, because air is forced out of every crack and crevice, if you are pulling air out that means unless you have an air tight cabinet (except for you're intake hole) then you are drawing dusty air in from around glass door's, etc.


----------



## Scarfather




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV TechnologyGuy* /forum/post/16757589
> 
> 
> Scarfather,
> 
> 
> It is a very good idea to cool your components. It will extend the life and inprove performance. Electronics perfrom better when they are cool. Some actually misbehave when the temperature is beyond room temperature. There ar a lot of myths about cooling and how it is done. Put simply, you need to establish a forced path. That means that the air can only pass over your components. Putting a fan at the back is usually not effective because it just draws air across the back of the components. This is known as "Thermal Management."
> 
> 
> Here are some simple solutions:
> 
> ATM - Active Thermal Management
> 
> 
> You can make a large hole in the bottom of your shelves, beneath your components. Make sure that through the wholes is the only significant path for the air to travel. Draw the air out from the top of the encloure with some sort of fan.
> 
> 
> Hopefully, this helps.



I don't have enough space to put a cooling device on top or in between components. And cooling the ps3 seems like somewhat of a difficult task.

My intention is to try to blow out the hot air generated from the onkyo receiver and maybe place one of the cooling fans right next to the ps3 blowing air in it so it keeps cool.


----------



## Suntan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Scarfather* /forum/post/16783432
> 
> 
> I don't have enough space to put a cooling device on top or in between components. And cooling the ps3 seems like somewhat of a difficult task.
> 
> My intention is to try to blow out the hot air generated from the onkyo receiver and maybe place one of the cooling fans right next to the ps3 blowing air in it so it keeps cool.



Even getting airflow through the cabinet to help evacuate the buildup of hot air will help quite a lot. If you can keep the cabinet supplied with "room temperature" air and your components are spaced such that natural convection can allow the hot air to move up and away (in otherwords don't stack STBs right on top of each other and don't block the fan on the PS3) your equipment should be able to servive.


-Suntan


----------



## Suntan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bricot* /forum/post/16778133
> 
> 
> I am pushing air into the cabinets (Positive pressure), I use filter screens on the fans, that way ANY air coming into the cabinet is filtered. This works very well for me, I opened it up the other day and still no need to dust!
> 
> 
> Positive pressure makes sense to me, because air is forced out of every crack and crevice, if you are pulling air out that means unless you have an air tight cabinet (except for you're intake hole) then you are drawing dusty air in from around glass door's, etc.



In addition, putting fans at the inlet (versus drawing air through an enclosure with a fan at the outlet) will be more efficient and you will get more airflow. Depending on the design of the fan used the difference may be minor or it may be significant.


I personally would not decide fan placement solely based on this, but also based on issues such as packaging, fan location, safety, noise, etc.


Also, keep in mind that your filters will most likely be blocking a lot of air from moving through. If you ever find that it is a hot day and your components are getting a bit sweaty, the easiest thing would be to just remove the filters and let more air through. Again, depending on the design of the fan in use, the difference can be significant.


-Suntan


----------



## bricot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Suntan* /forum/post/16784285
> 
> 
> In addition, putting fans at the inlet (versus drawing air through an enclosure with a fan at the outlet) will be more efficient and you will get more airflow. Depending on the design of the fan used the difference may be minor or it may be significant.
> 
> 
> I personally would not decide fan placement solely based on this, but also based on issues such as packaging, fan location, safety, noise, etc.
> 
> 
> Also, keep in mind that your filters will most likely be blocking a lot of air from moving through. If you ever find that it is a hot day and your components are getting a bit sweaty, the easiest thing would be to just remove the filters and let more air through. Again, depending on the design of the fan in use, the difference can be significant.
> 
> 
> -Suntan



Ya, I figured that filters cut down efficiency so I 'over fanned' a little, I have 1 120mm fan per shelf, I've done spot checks for temp and the temps have been fine. This thread reminded me...so I went and vacuumed out the filters this weekend


----------



## DMJ

Any reason I can't use 80mm fans? 120 (5" fans are pretty large and my cabinet has glass doors so I'm pretty sure I'd see them.


I'm thinking I'll go with the

Two (2) SilenX IXP-54-14 80mm Case Fan

Two (2) 80mm chrome grills ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556041184.html )

Cooler Guys 500mA DC supply ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html )

Cooler Guys Thermal Fan Controller ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html )


I know the 120mm fans will push more air, but each of these fans push 32CFM at 14 decibles and my cabinet is only 25"x15"x15". I'm thinking two fans will be overkill, but what do I know?










Any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMJ* /forum/post/16833026
> 
> 
> Any reason I can't use 80mm fans? 120 (5" fans are pretty large and my cabinet has glass doors so I'm pretty sure I'd see them.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking I'll go with the
> 
> Two (2) SilenX IXP-54-14 80mm Case Fan
> 
> Two (2) 80mm chrome grills ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556041184.html )
> 
> Cooler Guys 500mA DC supply ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html )
> 
> Cooler Guys Thermal Fan Controller ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html )
> 
> 
> I know the 120mm fans will push more air, but each of these fans push 32CFM at 14 decibles and my cabinet is only 25"x15"x15". I'm thinking two fans will be overkill, but what do I know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks




120mm fans are MUCH quieter than 80mm.


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/16836258
> 
> 
> 120mm fans are MUCH quieter than 80mm.



Thanks for the reply.

Going for equal CFM, yes. But, like I said, my cabinet is very small and I don't need as much air movement. I do not want to see these fans either and since I have glass doors I think I'd see 5" fans while I might not see 3" fans.


Any other reasons?


----------



## DMJ

Well, I put my kit together. As I was hoping, the two 80mm fans are pushing air through my smaller enclosure nicely. The SilenX fans really are quiet. I'm definitely going to use them for my projector enclosure when I make it. I'm really happy with most of my kit, I wish I'd bought a fan to put on the receiver and cable box.


Thanks


----------



## DMJ

Testing


I just did some quick tests with and without the fans.
Before cutting off the fans the temps were 93.6 (lower shelf) 103.4 (upper shelf).
After one hour without fans temps rose to 108.8 (LS) 109.6 (US).
After 10 minutes of turning the fans back on it's down to 96.8 (LS) and 105.2 (US).


Obviously the fans are working







The upper shelf is cooler just by having air flow past it. But, I'd like the upper shelf to have air blowing directly on the components so I'll probably add another fan or two. I know the 120m fans move more air, but the 80mm size is much easier hole to hide.


----------



## amheck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/16474674
> 
> 
> New SilentX cabinet cooling kit. 2 high flow fans, controller, ducts, expandable to 5 fans.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.crazypc.com/products/ixa-ccs-1800.html



Has anyone had a chance to try this system yet?


I have a TV console with a closed left and right section, and each side has 1 shelf.


I was thinking about trying the SilenX cabinet cooling kit, but that only gives me 1 fan per side. Adding additional fans is possible, but gets expensive.


If you guys think 2 fans per sealed location is better (1 intake and 1 outtake), what about four 120mm fans, 4 metal grills, and this controller?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/59..._IXA-FCEX.html


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amheck* /forum/post/16883098
> 
> 
> Has anyone had a chance to try this system yet?
> 
> 
> I have a TV console with a closed left and right section, and each side has 1 shelf.
> 
> 
> I was thinking about trying the SilenX cabinet cooling kit, but that only gives me 1 fan per side. Adding additional fans is possible, but gets expensive.
> 
> 
> If you guys think 2 fans per sealed location is better (1 intake and 1 outtake), what about four 120mm fans, 4 metal grills, and this controller?
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/59..._IXA-FCEX.html



Aaron,

Why would you buy a fan speed controller? I guess I could maybe see it if your fan was close to your ear when seated, but these fans are really silent.


The kit looks well put together, but these would seem like a better choice (add your own fans).


Cooler Guys 500mA DC supply ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html )

Cooler Guys Thermal Fan Controller ( http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html )


You can add up to 8 fans to the fan controller with the cooler guys splitter. Give Cooler Guys a call, they're great.


----------



## amheck

Hey Dan, thanks for the thoughts. The reason why I figured the fan speed controller would be nice is that I could hook up all 4 fans with just 1 AC plug.


I do like the idea of the thermal controller, but I'm a little hesitant on where to put the sensor. On one side of our console table, I have the PS3 and Wii. On the other side, I have my HTPC. I'm just worried with only 1 sensor, I'm going to have to chose which side to monitor the temp on. Of course, you can have 2 of these thermal sensors, but then that's 2 AC plugs.


Again, yeah, I don't need the voltage control on the controller I linked. If there's another unit that can power 4 fans, I'd like to just plug it into the switched outlet on my AVR and just have them come on whenever. Is there something similar to the thermal controller you linked, that can control 2-4 fans, without the temp sensor?


I hope that all makes sense.........


Aaron


----------



## DMJ

Aaron,

If you just want constantly running fans you can just buy the power supply. It's 4 prongs but the SilenX fans (probably all fans) come with a 4:3 converter so they'd plug in fine. If you want multiple fans, get some splitters. I'm crunched for outlets too, so I added an octopus. The fans barely use any power so it's not a big deal to add it.


I can't help with the rest of your questions, but this is a cheap way to get cooling.


----------



## amheck

Incase this helps anyone out in the future, I talked to cooleruys today. For my situation, where I want 4 fans with no temp controller, they recommend:


one of these http://www.coolerguys.com/840556090236.html 

and two of these http://www.coolerguys.com/840556000037.html 

and one AC adapter http://www.coolerguys.com/840556029977.html 


I asked about fans, saying I had seen a lot of mention about the Scythe Slip Streams. Jose said the 1200rpm version was a good flow/noise ratio fan.


For 120mm fan, I'm currently looking at a hole saw on ebay. 120mm=4.72"

Would I be ok with a 5" hole saw, or should I look for a 4 3/4" saw? Planing on getting the metal grill covers if that makes a difference.


----------



## GaryRanson

amheck,


You will want a 4-1/2" hole saw.


I just picked up some supplies from Coolerguys last week and all went as planned with the 4-1/2" saw.


Thanks for the info on the 1200 RPM fans as I went with two 800s and temps are in the low 90s. I would like to get them down to 80s if possible.


----------



## amheck




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/16898280
> 
> 
> amheck,
> 
> 
> You will want a 4-1/2" hole saw.



Thanks for the confirmation. Found a bunch of cheap hole saw sets on ebay (and I mean CHEAP) but the 4 1/2" size doesn't seem to common. Maybe I'll head to Lowes/HD and see how much they are there.


----------



## GaryRanson

I bought mine at Lowes and they are not inexpensive but in my mind, well worth it.


Lowes had two types, one with the built in arbor and the other where you have to buy a separate arbor. I went with the separate type in case I ever need to make other size holes.


----------



## GaryRanson

Part numbers I bought at Lowes:


Lenox #12204 (6L hole saw arbor for 3/8" drill)

Lenox #12191 (4-1/2" (114mm) Wood and Metal hole saw)


----------



## amheck

Hey guys,


Getting ready to place an order. Any idea which might be the best guards?

http://www.coolerguys.com/120grills.html 


On one hand, the mesh ones that capture dust might be nice, but I don't want to add additional noise (whistling?) nor make it so these need to be removed often for cleaning. Wondering if the simple metal guards for a buck might be the ticket. None of these will be showing in my setup.


----------



## stc4life

Get your hole saw at HarborFreight.com. They are super cheap.


----------



## GaryRanson

I looked and there are no 4-1/2" hole saws at HarborFreight.


amheck,


I picked up this one as I did not want to restrict airflow and will vacuum out the fans every 6-12 months:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082705.html


----------



## ink124

I'm thinking about using a pair of 120mm fans as exhaust for a closet (small closet, probably about 40 cubic feet) inline with the Coolerguys DC supply and thermal fan controller. I thought about going the bathroom fan route, but may not because of space constraints (planning to exhaust into exterior wall). Any reason I should be concerned about using the PC fans in this fashion?


----------



## GaryRanson

I figured that this thread is due for a pic.


I ended up using two Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F fans (120mm, 1600 rpm) with a CoolerGuys Thermal Fan Controller and Power Supply. So far temps just above the amplifier have been running 4-10 degrees above ambient depending upon use.


I have had my new setup for just over 3 weeks now and I am very happy. It includes:


Panasonic TC-P54V10

Denon AVR-2310CI

Motorola DCT-3416

Sony PS3

3x B&W LCR600 S3

B&W ASWCM Sub

Custom cabinet cooling


----------



## ink124




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/16930070
> 
> 
> I figured that this thread is due for a pic.
> 
> 
> I ended up using two Scythe S-FLEX SFF21F fans (120mm, 1600 rpm) with a CoolerGuys Thermal Fan Controller and Power Supply. So far temps just above the amplifier have been running 4-10 degrees above ambient depending upon use.
> 
> 
> I have had my new setup for just over 3 weeks now and I am very happy. It includes:
> 
> 
> Panasonic TC-P54V10
> 
> Denon AVR-2310CI
> 
> Motorola DCT-3416
> 
> Sony PS3
> 
> 3x B&W LCR600 S3
> 
> B&W ASWCM Sub
> 
> Custom cabinet cooling



Nice set up! I love the 1-piece glass of the V10.


----------



## The Tophinator

I just upgraded my TV stand to a nice AV cabinet. The Onkyo 606 loves to run super hot so I modified the removable magnetic rear doors a little bit. I added two Thermaltake Silent cat 1600RPM 16Db 62CFM fans, a cooler guys controller and used the 600MA power supply I had for one fan by making a 3 pin to Molex adapter. I also bought a couple chrome grill off Ebay.


The fans blow out and have been keeping the system really cool.











The cabinet.


----------



## Mike_WI

Interesting thread.

I scanned it, but may have missed some things.


What are people using for taking temperature measurements.


I saw this at Amazon and it looked interesting...
*Mastercool MSC52224A Infrared Thermometer*







Link 








 


Mike


----------



## bandit4

Hello!


----------



## bandit4

Hello all!

I just got a new entertainment center... http://www.ashleyfurniture.com/Showr...ItemNo=W423-21 ...to house my Samsung UN55B8000, PS3, Scientific Atlanta HD DVR and Dell Studio PC.


My problem is I have been noticing a lot of heat build up. I have the DVR located in the center top shelf behind the glass door. I have the PC and the PS3 located on the right hand side behind the right door. The PC is on the upper shelf and the PS3 is on the lower shelf. I have to leave the doors open to cools things off.


I have been reading this entire thread and have gotten some nice ideas. What do you all think of 3 of these USB fans... http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088417.html ... One attached to the PS3, another to the PC and the third to the DVR?? The PC and the PS3 fans would only come on when they are turned on and the DVR fan would always be on.


I would use a filter on each fan. Is this a good setup? Should I have the air blowing in as per Bricot's #413 post? Or should I have the air blowing out? Any help or advice would be appreciated! Thanks!


----------



## Suntan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bandit4* /forum/post/16952327
> 
> 
> ... One attached to the PS3, another to the PC and the third to the DVR?? The PC and the PS3 fans would only come on when they are turned on and the DVR fan would always be on.



I would not hook two fans up in the same "air compartment" such that only one or the other may be on at a time. If one of the fans is not running, the open space around the non moving fan is a prime opening for the air from the other fan to short curcuit through. in the most severe case of this, all the air will just circulate in the one fan opening and back out the other. If you then had them mounted close together, you would get little to no benefit from the one fan being on.


At the very least, if you set them up so one comes on per component, at least set one high as an exhaust fan and set the other low as a supply fan. that way you still maintain flow through even with only one fan running.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bandit4* /forum/post/16952327
> 
> 
> I would use a filter on each fan.



I wouldn't, you just kill all the airflow these thing can provide. Seriously, those two fans will likely not have enough to keep a PC and a PS3 ventilated if it is even remotely hot in your room, adding a filter on will cut at least 50 to 75% of the air they can move, making it that much harder. I suggest you go filterless and just vacuum your carpet more often.










Further, if your setup allows (fans are located out of the way, no kids with inquisitive little fingers, etc.) run those fans with no shielding too. You would be amazed at how much airflow gets reduced when you put those little round bar fan shields on. Take them off and you will get a lot more airflow (and the fan will most likely run quiter too.)


Lastly, running fans as supply instead of exhaust can have advantages, but their advantages become significantly reduced if your cabinet has a lot of leakage points. (IE: If the supply air leaks out along the bottom of the door right by where it was blown in, it's not doing much to force the hot air out the top.) Whereas if you run fans as exhaust and you have leakage, its not really as big of a deal, as even if you are pulling air in around the top of the door, you are still going to be pulling cooler air in and most likely evacuating the hotter air out the back. Long story short, if you run those fans as supply fans, weatherstrip those door openings and make a dedicated exhaust opening up top.


-Suntan


----------



## bandit4

Suntan,

Thanks for the reply, help and advice!


I gave up on the idea of usb fans and I got this from Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811998069 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811992005 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812706011 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999344 


I bought two of the Silverstone fans



I was also thinking, for the same price, I could have gotten this from Coolerguys.

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556089544.html 


Not sure which setup is better. The one from Newegg has better thermal control and better fans.


I hear what you say about filters. The only thing is I am a nut a when it comes to dust







. The 2 seperate shelves I have to cool are not that big, so I think this setup should do fine. I wont know though till I have it all up and running...


Thoughts??


----------



## ink124

Have my exhaust all set up. Here are a couple of pics.


This is outside of my media closet. Vent hole up top in the photo.
  


This is the other side of that vent hole (2x120mm Thermaltake fans).


----------



## Bucks13

hello all, relatively new to the forums, though i've been looking and learning for a little while.


i just got a new tv stand, and it is getting pretty hot in there, or so i think. between 120-125 F i think.


i'd like to add some fans for cooling, but am not too sure about placement. since i have two sides of the stand, each with two sections that have wire pass-throughs, where should i put the fans? i have about 6 inches of workable space between the edges and the wire pass-throughs.


i was thinking i could put them a couple inches away, blowing inward to force air out of the wire pass throughs. that way, if they are too closely spaced, and the hot air out of the wire hole is going back in through the fan, i could put a barrier on the back to separate it.


any thoughts or opinions??


here is my setup. the most heat is building up on the bottom left (denon) and top right (dvr).


----------



## RandallVR

Funny I came across this posting. I was just shopping this weekend for an enclosed cabinet and from all of these postings I guess I too should be considering how to keep the equipment cool.


Thanks for all the tips!


----------



## GaryRanson

Bucks13,


Check out my pics in post #436 of this thread as I had a similar situation to you.


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/17106817
> 
> 
> Bucks13,
> 
> 
> Check out my pics in post #436 of this thread as I had a similar situation to you.



that look pretty good. should work for my setup i'd say...do you have both fans blowing in, out, or one in and one out?


----------



## GaryRanson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17107800
> 
> 
> that look pretty good. should work for my setup i'd say...do you have both fans blowing in, out, or one in and one out?



I have both fans extracting air which results in cooler air being drawn in through the open front of the cabinet and across the equipment.


Since my A/V Receiver generates more heat that my PVR I positioned the fans so that the A/V Receiver is exposed to one and a half fans and the PVR "sees" half a fan.


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/17108778
> 
> 
> I have both fans extracting air which results in cooler air being drawn in through the open front of the cabinet and across the equipment.
> 
> 
> Since my A/V Receiver generates more heat that my PVR I positioned the fans so that the A/V Receiver is exposed to one and a half fans and the PVR "sees" half a fan.



i see, that makes sense for your setup. since i have a closed tv stand (which you can't tell from my pictures since the doors are open) should i have the fans force air in to the stand? i figure i'll have a better chance of maximizing the cool air inside the cabinet if i force it in with the fans, rather than trying to pull it in through the smaller diameter wire holes.


does this sound about right?


----------



## GaryRanson

I am not a thermal design engineer but the Whhite Paper from Middle Atlantic titled "Controlling the temperature inside equipment racks" advises that it is always better to focus on removing the heat, rather than adding cold air.


----------



## sic0048

Ink124 and Bucks13,


You need to have air flow through the cabinet or closet. Simply having a fan blow in to or out of an otherwise sealed space isn't going to improve the airflow very much.


Ink - I would recommend placing a second vent at the bottom of the closet. Either on the same wall, or on the door itself (obviously it would be less obvious if placed on the wall). The lower vent does not need any fans. The cooler air will automatically flow into the closet to replace the air that is being blown out of the closet by the upper fans. You might even get creative and build an air duct for the lower vent so the incoming air is vented at the bottom of your equipment rack. This would ensure good air flow through the rack instead of just up the wall.


Bucks - You might want to drill holes in the bottom of the cabinet to allow more air flow to enter or exit (depending on the direction your main fans are blowing).


----------



## Bucks13

so you don't think the wire pass-through holes would be enough to pull in or push out?? thought it's not a big deal, i'm trying to reduce the amount of drilling/sawing hahaha.


----------



## ink124




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sic0048* /forum/post/17109662
> 
> 
> Ink124 and Bucks13,
> 
> 
> You need to have air flow through the cabinet or closet. Simply having a fan blow in to or out of an otherwise sealed space isn't going to improve the airflow very much.
> 
> 
> Ink - I would recommend placing a second vent at the bottom of the closet. Either on the same wall, or on the door itself (obviously it would be less obvious if placed on the wall). The lower vent does not need any fans. The cooler air will automatically flow into the closet to replace the air that is being blown out of the closet by the upper fans. You might even get creative and build an air duct for the lower vent so the incoming air is vented at the bottom of your equipment rack. This would ensure good air flow through the rack instead of just up the wall... [snip]



Agreed! I actually was hoping that the gap under the door was sufficient. However, after noticing that the fans are on more often than I'd like, I will likely add an intake vent (similar to the one for exhaust) towards the bottom of the door. I may place fans as well just to help with air circulation.


----------



## sic0048




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17110937
> 
> 
> so you don't think the wire pass-through holes would be enough to pull in or push out?? thought it's not a big deal, i'm trying to reduce the amount of drilling/sawing hahaha.



It certainly wouldn't hurt to try it with the smaller holes. Just be sure to monitor the situation and be willing to try something else out if the temps are higher than you expected.


Think of it this way. The fan holes alone are much bigger than the wire holes. So right away there is not going to be an equal flow of air because less air will be entering the cabinet than potentially could exit. Physics will only allow an equal amount of air to flow, so the air exiting the fan holes will not be as much as it potentially could be. By adding more intake holes, you increase the amount of air available to flow out of the fan holes - thereby increasing the amount of air exiting the cabinet.


If the hardware is adequately cooled with the restictive air flow, then there is no need to add more holes. But the amount of air moved though the cabinet will be limited to the smaller of the intake or vent holes, not the larger of the two.


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ink124* /forum/post/17111976
> 
> 
> Agreed! I actually was hoping that the gap under the door was sufficient. However, after noticing that the fans are on more often than I'd like, I will likely add an intake vent (similar to the one for exhaust) towards the bottom of the door. I may place fans as well just to help with air circulation.



Before you drill a hole you might want to see if the fans turn off when the door is open. Leaving the doors open might not help. I know my DVR runs hotter than the controller would like and it doesn't matter if the door is open or closed. I can leave it by itself, outside of the cabinet and it's too hot. The only time it cools down enough is when it's off. I think the "on" temperature for the controller is too low for most devices.


The only thing that I think would help, and something I might try is putting a fan directly on the DVR, blowing (or removing) the air directly from it's surface.


----------



## ink124




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMJ* /forum/post/17114377
> 
> 
> Before you drill a hole you might want to see if the fans turn off when the door is open. Leaving the doors open might not help. I know my DVR runs hotter than the controller would like and it doesn't matter if the door is open or closed. I can leave it by itself, outside of the cabinet and it's too hot. The only time it cools down enough is when it's off. I think the "on" temperature for the controller is too low for most devices.
> 
> 
> The only thing that I think would help, and something I might try is putting a fan directly on the DVR, blowing (or removing) the air directly from it's surface.



I've left the door open and it does help. I should probably get a temperature sensor of some kind... But you got me thinking, if I placed a few fans on my components themselves to help circulate the stagnate air inside the closet, that can only help, right?


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ink124* /forum/post/17114522
> 
> 
> I've left the door open and it does help. I should probably get a temperature sensor of some kind... But you got me thinking, if I placed a few fans on my components themselves to help circulate the stagnate air inside the closet, that can only help, right?



Fans blowing on or pulling air from each heat source is the most recommended (and probably best) way to cool components. Otherwise you're just hoping that enough air flows through. I didn't do it downstairs, but it's just the cable box that was making the Slingbox and wi-fi hot. Indirect airflow fixed that problem. Upstairs I'll be going with a fan directed into the projector cabinet. It has it's own fan so I won't mess with that.


Actually, the upstairs DVR is the newer version with a built-in fan, so I probably won't add a direct one there either. But, the receiver will get one (maybe two) directly on it.


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sic0048* /forum/post/17114359
> 
> 
> It certainly wouldn't hurt to try it with the smaller holes. Just be sure to monitor the situation and be willing to try something else out if the temps are higher than you expected.
> 
> 
> Think of it this way. The fan holes alone are much bigger than the wire holes. So right away there is not going to be an equal flow of air because less air will be entering the cabinet than potentially could exit. Physics will only allow an equal amount of air to flow, so the air exiting the fan holes will not be as much as it potentially could be. By adding more intake holes, you increase the amount of air available to flow out of the fan holes - thereby increasing the amount of air exiting the cabinet.
> 
> 
> If the hardware is adequately cooled with the restictive air flow, then there is no need to add more holes. But the amount of air moved though the cabinet will be limited to the smaller of the intake or vent holes, not the larger of the two.



that makes nothing but sense! right now i'm just using a cheap little temp gauge to determine how hot it really is in there...it's palced on the front right corner of the avr. with all component off i'm sitting in the low 100s i think, and i've seen up to about 128 while watching a blu ray (loudly), with an average around the 118 i think.


i'll probably just put the fans in, try blowing in and try blowing out, measure my temps and see the results...if it's not very effective then i'll start drilling new holes.


any suggestions on the proper temp that i should see? maybe low to mid 90s?


----------



## Bucks13

so what do you guys think about this setup?

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088875.html x4
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088776.html x1
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026983.html x1


do you think i'll need that big of a power supply? 5 Amps seems like a lot, but the fan didn't list it's current usage...i just don't know if it'll be larger than the next size down, 2 Amp supply.


----------



## GaryRanson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17121086
> 
> 
> so what do you guys think about this setup?
> 
> http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088875.html x4
> http://www.coolerguys.com/840556088776.html x1
> http://www.coolerguys.com/840556026983.html x1
> 
> 
> do you think i'll need that big of a power supply? 5 Amps seems like a lot, but the fan didn't list it's current usage...i just don't know if it'll be larger than the next size down, 2 Amp supply.



Bucks,


This PS would be adequate to power four of those fans:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/17121280
> 
> 
> Bucks,
> 
> 
> This PS would be adequate to power four of those fans:
> 
> http://www.coolerguys.com/840556087977.html



really, all 4 fans would be less than .5 amp? sweet.


i know a decent amount about electronics and electricity, but not about cooling fans, so your information helps...thanks.


EDIT: i lied, i just saw the current rating for those fans...0.08 A or 80 mA. so yeah, that one would be plenty to power all four fans...thanks


----------



## Chevron07

Speaking of amps and voltage... I had a couple of fans sitting around, and dug up a wall wart to see what would happen.


The fans said:


DC 12V

1.20A


and the power supply said:


10V AC 1200mA 12VA


This ran for a little while, but the power supply got really hot and the system stopped working. Can anyone tell me what power supply I need for these fans?


----------



## GaryRanson

You excedded the power supplies capability drawing 14.4W out of a 12W supply.


----------



## Chevron07

Is that 14.4w for just the one fan, or were two of them drawing 18.8w? Any suggestions on what type of supply I should look for? The fans are perfect for my application so I'd rather not swap them out.


Edit: I thought only giving the fans 10v would slow them down and draw less amps.


----------



## GaryRanson

Yes, 12V x 1.20A = 14.4Watts


That does seem a high current requirement for a 12V fan. What type of fan is this?


You need to first determine the number of fans that you will use and their total current requirement before picking a power supply.


Running 12V fans at 10V will slow the fans down.


----------



## duvetyne

running a 12VDC fan on 10VAC will probably destroy the fan fairly quickly.


----------



## GaryRanson

Whoops! I missed that a 10 VAC supply was being used. Not good.


----------



## Bucks13

so what does everybody think about smaller fans? i think 120 mm is too big to put 4 in my stand...so i was thinking about going with 92 or so...opinions?


----------



## GaryRanson

Bucks 13,


The reason that people use the 120mm is that for a given airflow, the fan generally run slower and thus quieter.


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17128365
> 
> 
> so what does everybody think about smaller fans? i think 120 mm is too big to put 4 in my stand...so i was thinking about going with 92 or so...opinions?



I felt the same way, which is why I went with 80mm fans for the downstairs cabinet. I definitely would be able to see the fans if I'd gone with 120mm. The 80mm fans cool things down sufficiently, as you can see from my post with temperature readings.


I think the whole back of cabinet thing is trusted too much anyway. Getting airflow directly onto the component seems just as important (if not more so). There's too many nooks and cranny's that aren't getting air on them, their only hope of cooling is the little vent holes. How well does a back of the cabinet fan's airflow get inside of the nooks?


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/17128557
> 
> 
> Bucks 13,
> 
> 
> The reason that people use the 120mm is that for a given airflow, the fan generally run slower and thus quieter.



yeah, that makes sense. i just can't see drilling 4 3/4" holes in the back haha. and mounting even bigger fans. i'd be able to see them i think.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMJ* /forum/post/17128715
> 
> 
> I felt the same way, which is why I went with 80mm fans for the downstairs cabinet. I definitely would be able to see the fans if I'd gone with 120mm. The 80mm fans cool things down sufficiently, as you can see from my post with temperature readings.
> 
> 
> I think the whole back of cabinet thing is trusted too much anyway. Getting airflow directly onto the component seems just as important (if not more so). There's too many nooks and cranny's that aren't getting air on them, their only hope of cooling is the little vent holes. How well does a back of the cabinet fan's airflow get inside of the nooks?



i don't know about the nooks, but definitely the cranny's... just kidding. i wish i had more room inside to add more fans for airflow and direct air. oh well, maybe multi small fans.


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chevron07* /forum/post/17123003
> 
> 
> Speaking of amps and voltage... I had a couple of fans sitting around, and dug up a wall wart to see what would happen.
> 
> 
> The fans said:
> 
> 
> DC 12V
> 
> 1.20A
> 
> 
> and the power supply said:
> 
> 
> 10V AC 1200mA 12VA
> 
> 
> This ran for a little while, but the power supply got really hot and the system stopped working. Can anyone tell me what power supply I need for these fans?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryRanson* /forum/post/17123062
> 
> 
> You excedded the power supplies capability drawing 14.4W out of a 12W supply.



That's not true... the only relevant metric is the amperage. Running the fan at 10v will simply run it slower. I am running a 12v fan with a measly 5v power supply, for the sole purpose of running it slow.


Either your power supply is bad (or the specs are over-stated) or your fan consumes more current than it states. If your supply isn't sufficient you will burn up your fan, not the power supply.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/17132636
> 
> 
> Either your power supply is bad (or the specs are over-stated) or your fan consumes more current than it states. If your supply isn't sufficient you will burn up your fan, not the power supply.



Ummmm, maybe using a AC voltage power supply to try and run DC voltage devices is not a great way to go either....









Did you miss the fact that he said the fan is a 12v DC fan, and the output of the power supply is 10v AC and not DC?


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> the only relevant metric is the amperage.



No, the relevant metric is VA.


----------



## Bucks13

ok so i'm thinking about going with 4 x 80 mm fans that are rated at either 28.7 CFM @ 20 dB, or 40.2 @ 32.4 dB. which would be the more beneficial noise/heat removal ratio?


i was thinking i'd be able to go with the higher b/c i'm working with a closed tv stand, which i figure will muffle most, if not all of the fan noise. plus i'll be mounting them on the inside of the unit.


----------



## Bob7145

TFC Triebwerk 120mm x 55mm Mid Speed Fan (62 CFM, 21 dBA, 1200 RPM)

http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/tfc-t...-1800-rpm.html


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/17138852
> 
> http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/tfc-t...-1800-rpm.html



that's a hell of a fan! but i think i'm going to stick with the smaller size considering the size of my tv stand.


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17139240
> 
> 
> that's a hell of a fan!



Naaa, that's wimpy.







Now THESE, are some serious fans!!


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/17145272
> 
> 
> Naaa, that's wimpy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now THESE, are some serious fans!!



haha well i guess it's all relative. we actually use those in my plant...good airflow at low rpms...


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla* /forum/post/17133707
> 
> 
> Ummmm, maybe using a AC voltage power supply to try and run DC voltage devices is not a great way to go either....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you miss the fact that he said the fan is a 12v DC fan, and the output of the power supply is 10v AC and not DC?



I assume that was a typo











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duvetyne* /forum/post/17133769
> 
> 
> No, the relevant metric is VA.



I don't think so... volt-amp means Watts. Just because a device is rated at a certain wattage doesn't mean that it will put out that much power. On the other hand, running a device from a supply with not enough amperage WILL burn out the motor. At least, that's what I remember from my college days.


----------



## lajaro

Haven't read through all 481 previous posts, but here's how I did mine to keep the fans down on the PS3 and XBOX 360.


Quiet 120mm PC fan (rated for 12v DC, but runs at as low as 5v with very low current draw - somewhere around 10mA). Made by Silenx. Cost: $15 each. Any fan with similar specs would do though. This one comes with extra adapter which makes wiring easier.


Old DC power wart rated at 5V DC (used the one that came with an old Nokia cell phone). Rated 5V DC, 700mA


Cut connector off cell phone charger.


Connect black power lead to black leads on fan adapters (I've hooked up two to the same power).


Red adapter wires to white lead in phone charger (might be white, red, or black with white stripe - all depends on what they used to code the wires). If it doesn't power up, just switch them - no harm done as long as the two wires don't touch.


Install them as an exhaust at the back of the unit to draw hot air out (cabinet already designed to use convection for cooling so cool air is drawn in from underneath).


Cut 120mm hole in back panel on each shelf (no more than 3 inches clearance from wall but that's ok). Installed one of each for each shelf where the XB0x 360 and PS3 are.


Wall wart hooked up to IR triggered power strip (and added to my URC macro).


Result:

Fans run silent and just fast enough to suck the hot air out. as a test, I've left both systems on overnight with the amp powered up on the bottom shelf. PS3 was folding and Xbox was running a game demo (can't remember which). The cabinet didn't get hotter than 28 deg Celsius and the system fans were still on low.


Without the fans, the game systems will ramp up their fans in under 10 minutes, and that's only with one of them running at a time.


----------



## jbdawson

Hey guys,


I ordered a fan & thermal fan control kit from coolerguys but have a couple questions. I'll be using the fan on my Onkyo receiver which gets really hot even though its in a open shelf. Would you guys suggest I put the fan facing in toward the the receiver, or on the unit facing out pushing hot air out?


Also for this thermal controller I saw a video from coolerguys saying to tape it to the area which gets most hot, do I tape it to my receiver with normal electrical tape? Or is there some other special tape I need to use?


----------



## Bucks13

keep in mind i'm no expert, but from what i gather, it's better to pull hot air away...so you might want to point the fan so that it sucks hot air out from the receiver.


as for the tape, electrical should work, but with the elevated temperatures, it may soften the adhesive, causing a bit of a mess if you pull the tape off. you could try HVAC aluminum duct tape. it's specifically made for high temps, so the adhesive may hold better. hell, you may not even have to tape it on if you can just place it there without it falling off.


good luck.


----------



## Bucks13

ok so i just got my setup finished and while they do a great job of getting the hot air out (closed cabinet only around high 70s) my wife thinks they are too loud.


this may not be the right place, so tell me if i'm out of line, but is anybody interested in some 80mm scythe fans? they're the kama series, 2500 rpm. they push around 30 cfm @ ~30 dB. i just ordered the s-flex i think that are only 12 dB, but only push around 20 cfm.


let me know!


----------



## htskinner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17291610
> 
> 
> keep in mind i'm no expert, but from what i gather, it's better to pull hot air away...so you might want to point the fan so that it sucks hot air out from the receiver.
> 
> 
> as for the tape, electrical should work, but with the elevated temperatures, it may soften the adhesive, causing a bit of a mess if you pull the tape off. you could try HVAC aluminum duct tape. it's specifically made for high temps, so the adhesive may hold better. hell, you may not even have to tape it on if you can just place it there without it falling off.
> 
> 
> good luck.



Figured i'd help with a little insight, i've built a ton of computers and the general consensus is to have the same amount of airflow in as you do out of a case/enclosed area. The idea is to create a steady flow of positive pressure, if you have all of your fans doing the same thing (pushing air in or pulling it out) you will just create negative pressure and the hot air will stay put in the area... tomshardware wrote a pretty good article awhile back on case cooling etc.. that would also apply to AVR cooling. Sorry for not having a direct link though..

I'm cooling a onkyo avr on an open rack with a couple of 80mm artic cooling case fans mounted to a simple bracket, spliced through a thermal sensor and plugged to a 8v supply.. Pretty easy setup and total cost of maybe 15 bux.. its pretty easy to get a thermal sensor, most CPU cooling solutions have one and you can also get one separately... I dont see paying 50 bux for a solution that you can easily make/customize for under 20.


----------



## Bucks13

you're not saying that you need to force air in while forcing it out, are you? what i mean is that you would have at least 2 fans per cavity, one blowing in and the other blowing out.


i would think that as long as you had a hole(s) similar in size to the fan port to allow air transfer, you would still get a circulation. for example, i have one fan per 3 cavities, all of which have similar sized wire pass through holes, which i feel gives adequate air flow.


what do you think? sound good?


----------



## htskinner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17302395
> 
> 
> you're not saying that you need to force air in while forcing it out, are you? what i mean is that you would have at least 2 fans per cavity, one blowing in and the other blowing out.
> 
> 
> i would think that as long as you had a hole(s) similar in size to the fan port to allow air transfer, you would still get a circulation. for example, i have one fan per 3 cavities, all of which have similar sized wire pass through holes, which i feel gives adequate air flow.
> 
> 
> what do you think? sound good?




You are correct i was just saying that it is best to create a positive airflow. The best way this is usually performed is by blowing air in one side/endand sucking it out on the other side/end. Depending on the size of the cavity having a fan sucking air out might not make a difference, however it probably will since the fan blowing air in might not be strong enough to create pressure that would force air out of the other hole in the cavity, instead it could possibly be fighting itself since the pressure inside would not allow it to move air into the cavity (like trying to add more water to a glass that is already full). Not saying that is happening but it is very much a possibility.


Think of it like this, in a room with a drop ceiling the supply vent and return vent are placed on opposite sides for a reason, usually to pull the air being blown out of the supply across the room into the return vent, creating positive air flow and not letting any air "sit" in the room.


hope that makes sense?

Either way any air movement is usually good air movement


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bucks13* /forum/post/17291610
> 
> 
> keep in mind i'm no expert, but from what i gather, it's better to pull hot air away...so you might want to point the fan so that it sucks hot air out from the receiver.
> 
> 
> as for the tape, electrical should work, but with the elevated temperatures, it may soften the adhesive, causing a bit of a mess if you pull the tape off. you could try HVAC aluminum duct tape. it's specifically made for high temps, so the adhesive may hold better. hell, you may not even have to tape it on if you can just place it there without it falling off.
> 
> 
> good luck.



I don't think aluminum tape is a good idea on electrical wires. A bit risky. Gooey electrical tape is a huge pain though. 3M electrical tape holds up well.


----------



## DMJ

It's been said that air blowing over the case isn't enough. I'm adding a fan that will sit on top of the hotter cases and blow directly into them.


You probably won't have to tape down your sensor, you're over thinking it.


----------



## Bob7145

Fans always work better blowing into free air ie: no restriction.

If there is a restriction close to the blades (blowing against a case) the blades will cavitate, make more noise and flow less air if any. There are certain fans that are made for blowing against restriction (blowers!) or thick high speed (noisy) axials. Even the 120 x 25mm fan I use on top of the AVR (blowing up-exhaust) works better and makes less noise by slightly raising it with rubber pads.

Forget the thermal switches. If the equipment is on, it needs cooling. Turn it on and leave it on!

Look at server rack cabinets. They have Exhaust fans at the top and no Intake fans.


----------



## htskinner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/17311290
> 
> 
> Fans always work better blowing into free air ie: no restriction.
> 
> If there is a restriction close to the blades (blowing against a case) the blades will cavitate, make more noise and flow less air if any. There are certain fans that are made for blowing against restriction (blowers!) or thick high speed (noisy) axials. Even the 120 x 25mm fan I use on top of the AVR (blowing up-exhaust) works better and makes less noise by slightly raising it with rubber pads.
> 
> Forget the thermal switches. If the equipment is on, it needs cooling. Turn it on and leave it on!
> 
> Look at server rack cabinets. They have Exhaust fans at the top and no Intake fans.



exactly.

only thing is that the idea behind fans on top of the server racks is to pull air across, not just blow exhaust.


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/17304935
> 
> 
> I don't think aluminum tape is a good idea on electrical wires. A bit risky. Gooey electrical tape is a huge pain though. 3M electrical tape holds up well.



i was under the impression that there were no exposed wires...but i know what you're saying about tape that is conductive haha


----------



## Bucks13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htskinner* /forum/post/17302638
> 
> 
> You are correct i was just saying that it is best to create a positive airflow. The best way this is usually performed is by blowing air in one side/endand sucking it out on the other side/end. Depending on the size of the cavity having a fan sucking air out might not make a difference, however it probably will since the fan blowing air in might not be strong enough to create pressure that would force air out of the other hole in the cavity, instead it could possibly be fighting itself since the pressure inside would not allow it to move air into the cavity (like trying to add more water to a glass that is already full). Not saying that is happening but it is very much a possibility.
> 
> 
> Think of it like this, in a room with a drop ceiling the supply vent and return vent are placed on opposite sides for a reason, usually to pull the air being blown out of the supply across the room into the return vent, creating positive air flow and not letting any air "sit" in the room.
> 
> 
> hope that makes sense?
> 
> Either way any air movement is usually good air movement



i understand what you're saying. makes sense.


----------



## Bob7145

Reading material


Mostly for AV cabinets (not furniture)

http://repnet.middleatlantic.com/COM...ent%203-04.pdf


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bob7145* /forum/post/17328368
> 
> 
> Reading material
> 
> 
> Mostly for AV cabinets (not furniture)
> 
> http://repnet.middleatlantic.com/COM...ent%203-04.pdf



nice


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> I don't think so... volt-amp means Watts. Just because a device is rated at a certain wattage doesn't mean that it will put out that much power. On the other hand, running a device from a supply with not enough amperage WILL burn out the motor. At least, that's what I remember from my college days.



You don't "think" so, as that's all you "remember"?


You're mistaken.


----------



## Bucks13

so i got my new scythe s-flex, and they're still audible even in a closed cabinet! they're rated at only 12.2 dB, so i thought i'd be good. is it possible that it's not the fan bearings, but the vibrations against the wood? has anybody experimented with a rubber or foam seal between the wood and the fan?


any input is appreciated.


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duvetyne* /forum/post/17347771
> 
> 
> You don't "think" so, as that's all you "remember"?
> 
> 
> You're mistaken.



Care to back up your claims with evidence? Not very helpful otherwise.


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/17365473
> 
> 
> Care to back up your claims with evidence? Not very helpful otherwise.




Uh, OK.



> Quote:
> Just because a device is rated at a certain wattage doesn't mean that it will put out that much power.



That's what you wrote. In your world the power rating means nothing. Why?

Can you back this up with anything relevant?


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duvetyne* /forum/post/17366058
> 
> 
> Uh, OK.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what you wrote. In your world the power rating means nothing. Why?
> 
> Can you back this up with anything relevant?



First off, you still failed to provide any info about why you were refuting my claims. Seriously, we are here to learn, not to flame.


I can back that up by real world experience. I have a 450 watt PSU in my computer and if I give any of my components that much juice, they will fry; therefore, I conclude that my 450W PSU is not putting out anywhere near 450W. Power supplies are rated at their _maximum_ current draw, not the RMS or average draw. If you have a 5v device, any 5v power supply will power it as long as it has a _minimum_ rating equal to or greater than the device's required current draw.


----------



## hrin

I prefer to go by amperage must have something to do with those cheap flea market speakers, amps offering 1,000 watts of power. LOL.


I'm using 2 AC fans pulling out the back of open front cabinet shelf. With an attic fan thermostat. Comes on in a few minutes but I like that it keeps running for 10-20 minutes after I shut down.


----------



## jsnkid

OK i really need some help.


I have been using a 110v AC to 12v molex adapter to power some pc fans in my cabinet. THey have worked okay for over a year now (issues here and there) but now all of a sudden i am getting no fan spinning and a really high pitched noise from the fans. I know the power is working becasue i tried plugging the molex connector to onther fan i had lying around and its LEDs lit up but the noise was there and it didnt spin.


Please help! this is really bad because now none of my components are being cooled!!


The one i have appears to be this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-011-_-Product 


and i am powering a bunch of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-007-_-Product


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> I have a 450 watt PSU in my computer and if I give any of my components that much juice, they will fry;



I guess you don't understand that the load draws the power it requires from the supply...you don't "give" it 450Watts, it draws that if it needs it.



You stated this:



> Quote:
> Just because a device is rated at a certain wattage doesn't mean that it will put out that much power.



and I called you on it, you haven't responded to it, just gone off on an unrelated tangent.



> Quote:
> If you have a 5v device, any 5v power supply will power it as long as it has a minimum rating equal to or greater than the device's required current draw.



The product of voltage and current is power.


----------



## stc4life




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duvetyne* /forum/post/17559976
> 
> 
> I guess you don't understand that the load draws the power it requires from the supply...you don't "give" it 450Watts, it draws that if it needs it.
> 
> 
> 
> You stated this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I called you on it, you haven't responded to it, just gone off on an unrelated tangent.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The product of voltage and current is power.



Necessary??? Wasn't this a month ago...


----------



## duvetyne

Was that necessary?


----------



## crakarjax

Ha, yeah for real, a bit late.



> Quote:
> I guess you don't understand that the load draws the power it requires from the supply...you don't "give" it 450Watts, it draws that if it needs it.



That's exactly my point.... anyway, I don't really remember what you "called me out on" but like I said, if you'd like to provide us with some factual, educational info go right ahead.


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> That's exactly my point....



The only point you've made is that you're extremely confused with basic electronics.


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *duvetyne* /forum/post/17566214
> 
> 
> The only point you've made is that you're extremely confused with basic electronics.



You're right, it's not like I'm an electrical engineer or...... oh wait. Yes, I am an electrical engineer. My bad!


Again,



> Quote:
> if you'd like to provide us with some factual, educational info go right ahead.


----------



## kpm197

hi all,

is it better to go with AC or DC?


i have an AC adaptor with variable voltage switch (3v-12v). i could buy a couple of AC fans, but they seem to be rated fairly loud (~40db) and more expensive than DC fans.

or i could get a DC pc psu for which would enable me to get a couple of pc case fans (~25db).


the obvious benefit of the ac route is i already have the adaptor and its overall cheaper, but possibly noisier.

the benefit of the dc route is i should be able to wire in some cathode tube lights i have at home. the minus is i'm just adding more heat and another fan to the set up.


what do you think?


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpm197* /forum/post/17654279
> 
> 
> hi all,
> 
> is it better to go with AC or DC?
> 
> 
> i have an AC adaptor with variable voltage switch (3v-12v). i could buy a couple of AC fans, but they seem to be rated fairly loud (~40db) and more expensive than DC fans.
> 
> or i could get a DC pc psu for which would enable me to get a couple of pc case fans (~25db).
> 
> 
> the obvious benefit of the ac route is i already have the adaptor and its overall cheaper, but possibly noisier.
> 
> the benefit of the dc route is i should be able to wire in some cathode tube lights i have at home. the minus is i'm just adding more heat and another fan to the set up.
> 
> 
> what do you think?



DC for sure. Your AC adapter puts out DC.


----------



## kpm197




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/17656943
> 
> 
> DC for sure. Your AC adapter puts out DC.



that makes sense. thinking back to my cathode tube lights i ran those through the adaptor, and the cathode tube lights were pc case modding lights. kind of obvious when you think about it. feeling a bit thick now. thanks


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kpm197* /forum/post/17657159
> 
> 
> that makes sense. thinking back to my cathode tube lights i ran those through the adaptor, and the cathode tube lights were pc case modding lights. kind of obvious when you think about it. feeling a bit thick now. thanks



any time


----------



## krashersmasher

Hello all. I haven't read the entire thread but thought I would offer a $2 4 component automatic fan controller that a mate and I put together for quietly cooling pc cases. It's designed to run 12v fans and hit peak speed at about 40 degrees from memory.


I am thinking of putting one in my AV cupboard to replace the 'desk' fan that I currently have blowing cool air into it.


I'll try dig it up and link it if anyone wants it. I couldn't find anything for sale that did the job as well as this little thing.


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krashersmasher* /forum/post/17798212
> 
> 
> Hello all. I haven't read the entire thread but thought I would offer a $2 4 component automatic fan controller that a mate and I put together for quietly cooling pc cases. It's designed to run 12v fans and hit peak speed at about 40 degrees from memory.
> 
> 
> I am thinking of putting one in my AV cupboard to replace the 'desk' fan that I currently have blowing cool air into it.
> 
> 
> I'll try dig it up and link it if anyone wants it. I couldn't find anything for sale that did the job as well as this little thing.



For sure, post it up! I posted a write-up earlier in the thread about using an old thermostat to do the job, but that cost more than $2 for sure.


----------



## krashersmasher

Have fun! Be careful with the heatsink though - it floats at the + voltage. Not good in pc case.

 

Auto Fan Controller.pdf 7.751953125k . file

 

Auto Fan Controller.zip 45.1220703125k . file


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krashersmasher* /forum/post/17801209
> 
> 
> Have fun! Be careful with the heatsink though - it floats at the + voltage. Not good in pc case.



Looks cool, I'll let it slide that it was almost 7x your initial cost estimate







I will surely have to try that out. Does this circuit speed up the fan with temperature, and is there a point where the fans are always off?


That zip file seems to be corrupt btw.


----------



## krashersmasher

Yeah, it was more expensive than I remembered. That's NZ$ so halve it for USD 


Couldn't get the xls to upload...file not allowed etc. Dunno why zip broke. Open with winrar?


Fan speed is auto variable depending on temps. 4ishV at 20 degrees 10ishV at 35 degrees. All in calcium. (wow, I mean Celsius) Details should be there somewhere.


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krashersmasher* /forum/post/17801830
> 
> 
> Yeah, it was more expensive than I remembered. That's NZ$ so halve it for USD
> 
> 
> Couldn't get the xls to upload...file not allowed etc. Dunno why zip broke. Open with winrar?
> 
> 
> Fan speed is auto variable depending on temps. 4ishV at 20 degrees 10ishV at 35 degrees. All in calcium. Details should be there somewhere.



winrar ftw


----------



## Sparkss

Multi-function temp/fan controller DIY (using some commercial components).


*Parts List*


Power Relay 72J4442 1 6.64 Series:782; Coil Voltage VDC Nom:12V; Coil Resistance:160ohm; No. of Poles:4; Contacts:4PDT; Relay Mountinglug In; Carry Current:10A; Featureslain Cover w/Flag; Relay Terminals:Quick Connect; Coil Voltage DC Max:12V ;RoHS Compliant: Yes 782XDX2C-12D MAGNECRAFT
https://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?SKU=72J4442 


Relay Socket 69K5576 1 3.50 Socket Mounting







IN Rail/Panel; Current Rating:10A; Socket Terminals:Screw; No. of Pins:14 ;RoHS Compliant: Yes 70-782D14-1 MAGNECRAFT
https://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?SKU=69K5576 


Relay Retaining Clip 64J8914 1 0.73 For Use With:Chassis/Panel and Printed Circuit Sockets ;RoHS Compliant: Yes 16-1342 MAGNECRAFT
https://www.newark.com/jsp/search/pr...sp?SKU=64J8914 


EXT ENCLO SABRENT|EC-525K R N82E16817366013 1 26.54
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817366013 


CONTROLLER ZALMAN| ZM-MFC3 R N82E16811999197 1 69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811999197 


Coolerguys Thermal Fan 840556086611 1 13.95 Temp Control = On 87F / OFF 80F Controller
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556086611.html 


Internal Drive 4Pin Power 840556000662 1 2.25 Splitter Cable # CC2125Y
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556000662.html 


4 Pin Molex Power Cord 840556069683 2 1.95 Length = 36 inch Extension Cable 12 18 24 and 36"
http://www.coolerguys.com/powerext.html 


3-Pin Extension Cable / 840556069393 1 1.89 Inches = 36 Adapters for 3 Wire Devices, 12, 18, 24 , 36 or 48 Inches
http://www.coolerguys.com/840556000013.html 


SPDT Submini Toggle Switch 275-0613 1 3.79
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062498 

*NOTES :*


I left off the fans as they are not specific to the project. We used 2 of the Feser Triebwerk 120mm x 55mm fans and are more or less happy with them.

The Zalman fan controller was overkill. I had ordered it for something else and just ended up using it in tis project. There are much cheaper alternatives that would suffice.

I am not 100% happy w/ the Sabrent case I chose. It lacks a pedestal to stand it on it's side, and has rounded sides, which are nice to look at but becuase of that it has to lay flat.

I had to buy a power supply anyways, and for a few $$ more I got a case to go along with it to hold (and hide) everything. It also gave me someplace to mount the fan controller I wanted to use, since most (but not all) are made for mounting in a PC case.

*Motivation/Purpose :*


The reason for building this was that I wanted to cool our entertainment center with the following requirements :


Cooling be automatic (only come on when needed)

Fan speed control (either automatic or at least manual, to control the noise level as needed)

Temperature monitoring (to see how well the fans were doing and if I needed to increase the speed)



There are several controllers out there that will control the fan speed based on temperature, but they had several drawbacks.


- The fans were always on, even when not needed (just running at their slowest speed -- at least the controllers I tested)

- The controller display was always on, even when not needed (at night it was distracting)


So I set about building a solution. I originally just wanted a device to piggyback off of one of the temp controllers like the Collerguys ones. But they only passed 12v, and most fan controllers required the 5v feed for their functionality. I couldn't find any that passed both the 5v and 12v. The answer for me was to put in a 12v 4 pole relay

*Steps :*


I took apart the Sabrent case and took off the back power/control board (two screws hold it down), unscrewed and removed the fan audio connector (for CD-ROMs) completely from the case (to reuse the hole for the switch, more about that later) and snapped out a rectangle shaped cut-out in the back of the case right next to the power switch. I removed all non-essential cables, like the drive cable and unplugged the fan power connector (but left the fan in case I needed it to keep the case cool, more about that later too).


Then I routed the fan connectors and temperature probes through the cut-out and put the power/controlled board back on. The wires need to be passed through the holes before the power board goes back on since the cut-out is an extension of the box hole for the power plug and the extra opening is needed to get the larger fan connector ends through. Then I held the wires out of the way (keeping them in the cut-out) and put the power board back in.


I cut the Molex extension in half and cut the male end off of the 3 pin extension. I also cut 2 pieces of scrap wire (can use two of the wires from the 3 pin ext since only 1 is needed). then I soldered 3 wires to the SPDT switch, two loose and one coming from the ground on the 3 pin (the black wire). The black wire goes to one of the side post and the other two loose ones go to the center and other side posts.


Then I installed the switch into the hole that used to hold the audio plug in the back of the case.


Next I setup the relay. I took the female end and connected the 4 wires to the center posts of the relays 4 poles. This would be the line side. Then I took the male end and conencted the 4 wires to the corresponding posts of the 4 poles on the NO (normally open) side*. I then put a wire from the 12v+ (yellow wire) contact on the line side and connected the other end to the relay coil terminal. I put the wire from the center post of the switch that I installed and connected it to the other side of the relay coil. Then I took the other loose wire from the side post of the switch and connected it to the terminal that had the ground on the line side (the black wire next to the yellow one). All of the wiring is now done, aside from plugging in the molex power plugs.



* If you use a single throw relay. I goofed and ordered a double throw instead of a single throw relay (4PDT vs. 4PST). I could have maybe saved a dollar on a single throw, but it isn't a big deal.



I then installed the Zalman fan controller and mounted the relay and Coolerguys temperature controller (used double-sided tape for now). I plugged in the molex splitter into the power supply at the back and plugged one of the connectors into the temp controller and the other into the female connector (on the line side of the relay). Then the male molex on the load side of the relay got plugged into the Zalman. I then plugged all of the fan and temperature probes into the Zalman and Coolerguys controllers and the female 3 pin connector (attached to the switch in the back) got plugged into one of the fan connectors on the Coolerguys controller.


Everything is now ready to go. The purpose of the switch is to provide a manual/automatic selection. Not needed if you want to just run it always in automatic.


I installed the switch in mine vertically, so in the up position it is in manual mode (IE: Just "on"), in the down position it is in automatic (only comes on when the temperature controller is triggered, which w/ the Coolerguys one it is fixed at 87f on, 80f off, IIRC). I also left one of the fan controller temp probes in the case to allow me to monitor the temp in there when it is running, so see if I needed to connect the small case fan to one of the 12v power sources to keep it cool inside. I suspect not, but that option is there along with a way to monitor and determine if it is needed.


I tested by putting it in manual and making sure everything comes on, then putting it into auto and holding the temp probe to heat it up and making sure it powered up the fan controller. I then closed everything up, put it into our Ent Center and plugged all of the fans and what not into it. I set it in manual mode to adjust the fan speeds to a level that isn't bothersome or too audible from our viewing/sitting location. I then placed the temp probe from the temp controller in the hottest spot in our Ent Center (right above our receiver/amp) and put the temp probes from the fan controller into different places to monitor the temp (monitoring only available when the fans come on). I only plan to use the temp monitoring (IE: pay attention to it) in the hotter summer months to ensure that the fans are doing their job(s)







.


*Things I would do differently/still left to do :*


Add a longer temp probe from Coolerguys to the temp controller (and possibly an ext so that the connection is outside of the case so I can unplug it to remove the case from the Ent Center, w/o having to re-route the main temp probe each time)

put grommet around the cut-out to avoid problems w/ any sharp/rough edges

wrap all of the cables coming out of the case into 1 bundle that fans out jsut a few inches from the end.

figure out a stand for the Sabrent case (or change to a case w/ a stand)

add an "all in one" connector between the wires coming out of the unit and the fans/temp probes/etc. It all depends on how often I find myself taking it out or moving it around (which I don't expect to be that often, once I get it settled in).

Maybe add another "zone" to the unit (by adding another temp controller to monitor/react to a different area of our Ent Center). Wouldn't be too hard and would only cost about $15 or so to do, but I would need to test running two temp controllers in parallel.



I would definitely use a much cheaper fan controller but this one was available and unused, so I went with it. Total cost (w/o the fan controller or fans) was just over $60. I leave off the fan controller and fans because there is alot of possible variation there and really comes down to personal preferrence. And the choice has no bearing on the "project", any one would work, so long as they are a 5.25" PC fan controller and compatible fans (compatible with the PC fan controller). For that same reason I didn't bother with any pictures of the fan installation or components in our setup. They are irrelevant to the controller build







.



Except that I am a control freak, this all could have been done more simply and cheaper, but what fun would that have been ?







This project falls into the category of the journey being as important as the destination. Plus it looks really cool (points for geek factor







).


The pictures leave much to be desired (I used an older camera to snap them really quick while I was building it). It is already tucked into our Ent Center, but I will need to take it out, and apart, again when the longer temp probe gets here and I will take better pitures then, if anyone is interested.


I will also try to put together a wiring diagram later on today, but wanted to share this just in case anyone else was as bored as I was and wanted to build something similar











First picture is of everything installed, but I unplugged a couple of the power cables to move them out of the way to better show the other components. Unfortunately I had already built it when I thought to start taking pictures to share, so I don't have a step by step photo documentary



















The next one is of everything plugged in and the spare cables just curled up (or shoved in) the case.











This one is a shot of the back of the case, with the manual/auto toggle switch to the right of the on/off power switch.











Here is a horribly unfocused shot of the unit fully assembled. (to be retaken later this week, as time permits)











Here is what the Zalman looks like powered up.


----------



## Sparkss

aside from the "geek factor", the other advantage is the ability to support more fans then the Coolerguys temperature controller can, which has a combined power draw capacity of 1000ma (1.0A). Which our two larger fans already would have maxed that out. If fan control isn't needed, just the ability to control more than 1a worth of fans, then only the temp controller and relay setup would be needed (along w/ a case, or at least a power supply). Then the only restriction would be the fan controller and/or power supply limitations.


----------



## mames

Not an electronic guru, just a guy who fried his Sony AVR, spent $500 on a new one and decided to get on forums such as this and learn something, which I have--thank you. I have a small component cabinet (just under 14 cu. ft.) and just ordered a single fan setup from CoolGuys. You may have to leave a message or send email but they will get back with you if you need to talk to them and they offer useful, good advice. One short narrative I read on another website (the "Additional Considerations" section) was interesting to me and gave something to think about so thought I would post it:
coolcomponents.com/Cabinet-Venting_c_8.html


----------



## steve711

Sparkss,


Thanks for posting your project. On a scale of difficulty how would you rate this project for someone is isn't a spark jumper?


----------



## Sparkss

I am far from a soldering expert. I would rate it a 5 on a scale of 1 - 10.


----------



## palmfish

Great info here, thank you all for your contributions.


I have an enclosed wood cabinet with glass doors I bought from Costco in January. It is fully enclosed, with slits in the rear panels for wires to pass through.


After much reading here and research on the web, I ordered 4 SilenX iXtreme Pro 92mm case fans and the SilenX 4-channel external controller (I like the idea of being able to control each fans speed individually). My cabinet has a large left and right compartment, with each side split (top and bottom) by a single shelf - so 4 compartments cooled by one fan each. Each compartment has a narrow (3" X 12") slit in back for wires to pass through.


I'm wondering about what to do about the rear slits though. I'm thinking about buying a yard of black felt and stapling it over the rear slits so that the fans won't draw air in from the rear. My hope is that the felt will sufficiently block the rear slits so the fans will draw air from the gaps around the front doors, thus pulling air front-to-rear across my components. Does this sound like a reasonable expectation?


I'm looking forward to installing this setup. My AVR runs pretty cool (Pioneer Elite w/Class D amps), but it still gets warm in the cabinet. I also ordered a "Smartstrip" that will turn the fans on/off whenever the AVR powers up/down. The fans I ordered are rated at 9dB at 1100 RPM and 11 dB at 1300 RPM. I hope they are as quiet as advertised.


----------



## dougzer0

here are some photos from an install I completed today. I'm not the most handy person, it seems to do the job tho. The system is a little noisier than I would like, probably because of the hatchet job I did. The exhaust holes are complete tho. I have 2 120mm SilenX fans as exhaust with air coming through the intake vent holes in each section. I lost in a battle with the hole saw so drilled intake ventilation holes with a regular drill bit. There's no way for me to get air flowing in from the front other than opening the door. I could probably stick a door bumper on to prop it open a little bit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/4920981...7623711443893/


----------



## DMJ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dougzer0* /forum/post/18469604
> 
> 
> here are some photos from an install I completed today. I'm not the most handy person, it seems to do the job tho. The system is a little noisier than I would like, probably because of the hatchet job I did. The exhaust holes are complete tho. I have 2 120mm SilenX fans as exhaust with air coming through the intake vent holes in each section. I lost in a battle with the hole saw so drilled intake ventilation holes with a regular drill bit. There's no way for me to get air flowing in from the front other than opening the door. I could probably stick a door bumper on to prop it open a little bit.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/4920981...7623711443893/












Are those ventilation holes? If so, I think they're way too small in diameter to be very affective.


Dan


----------



## dougzer0

Yeah I will have to redo that and cut a larger opening.


----------



## crakarjax

Combining your D-Link, Netgear, and Linksys boxes into one unit that does everything would help immensely!


----------



## dougzer0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/18471377
> 
> 
> Combining your D-Link, Netgear, and Linksys boxes into one unit that does everything would help immensely!



Great suggestion!


----------



## dougzer0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dougzer0* /forum/post/18470670
> 
> 
> Yeah I will have to redo that and cut a larger opening.



Tho I want to avoid having to do it with a hole saw if possible. Those things are scary! (to me at least). Maybe I'll just drill bigger 1" holes with a spade. Hole Saws Are Surprisingly Hazardous that's what Readers digest says anyway


oh and keeping the fans on the lowest setting keeps the noise to an acceptable setting while still providing adequate cooling - tho still want to enlarge those intake holes


----------



## mastermaybe

At work, but I'll post a pic later if it helps. Anyways, I made a stand-alone amp stand to support my 115 lb Sherbourn 7 channel and and my 35lb 12 channel Niles amp.


Turned out nice, now I'm just looking for a fan to keep them as cool as possible and perhaps throw a few years of life onto them.


Any suggestions?


Essentially, this would just sit behind them and blast away, but, seeing they're "cabinet-less", sound is a bit of a priority.


thanks gang,


James


----------



## chester aldrid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crakarjax* /forum/post/18471377
> 
> 
> Combining your D-Link, Netgear, and Linksys boxes into one unit that does everything would help immensely!



what and how can you combine the routers with? My son has 3 x-boxes, we have 2 desktop comp. and 3 laptop comp. all using cablevision cable modem service, and a cisco linksys modem. We have problems with laptops interfering with the other units sometimes.


Chester


----------



## justinm0424




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chester aldrid* /forum/post/18906783
> 
> 
> what and how can you combine the routers with? My son has 3 x-boxes, we have 2 desktop comp. and 3 laptop comp. all using cablevision cable modem service, and a cisco linksys modem. We have problems with laptops interfering with the other units sometimes.
> 
> 
> Chester



Most people just have a cable modem connected to a wireless router that has 4 wired ports on it. If you need more wired ports then just buy a simple witch ($20-50). There's really no need to have multiple routers unless you're able to use them as wireless bridges in areas that need to be wired but you can't run a wire.


----------



## chester aldrid

thank you, I found my problem I was connecting to my company's server and that was making my home system work to hard.


chester


----------



## jlj93byu

Please offer any assistance or direction, it will be much appreciated.










I recently purchased the Onkyo 9100 Home Theater system and want to use an AV cooling fan to keep my receiver cool. I am new to this process, and have looked at several fans on different sites. They all seem to have different power sources, and different features.


What I'm looking for is a fan that will turn on with my receiver or when temperature requires it. My receiver does not have a plug on the back or a USB, so I will (I'm assuming) need a fan that will require me to remove the metal covering to my receiver and plug the fan into a power supply in my receiver. Is this recommended?







Will most power supplies on fans be compatible and not be overtaxing on my receiver's hardware? Is there a fan that could be plugged into a standard outlet, but only be triggered to activate by temperature? I feel that would be ideal, but again, I am a novice to this. Any help would be much appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## erikstormtrooper

I know there are power strips (smart strips) that will switch on a device when another plugged-in device is turned on. You just plug both the receiver and the fan into the special plugs on the smart strip.


----------



## jlj93byu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erikstormtrooper* /forum/post/19030065
> 
> 
> I know there are power strips (smart strips) that will switch on a device when another plugged-in device is turned on. You just plug both the receiver and the fan into the special plugs on the smart strip.



Thank you for the reply! I just checked some out. I suppose I would purchase this and then plug this into my larger home theater surge protector and then only plug the receiver and fan into the smart power strip so I don't cause too much stress by "daisy chaining" from my larger surge protector. I just don't want every component of my home theater dependant on my AV receiver, but the fan I want synched with it.


Any other good comments out there on cooling fans for A/V receivers that can be automatically turned on and off?


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlj93byu* /forum/post/19030103
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply! I just checked some out. I suppose I would purchase this and then plug this into my larger home theater surge protector and then only plug the receiver and fan into the smart power strip so I don't cause too much stress by "daisy chaining" from my larger surge protector. I just don't want every component of my home theater dependant on my AV receiver, but the fan I want synched with it.
> 
> 
> Any other good comments out there on cooling fans for A/V receivers that can be automatically turned on and off?



I did a write-up on a thermostat-controlled fan for an A/V cabinet that you could check out. I don't remember what the post number is but it's a while back.


----------



## TheWind

.

You may find some of the info and links* * Here * useful.



* The "_... second one is pretty long..._" link might look familiar.


----------



## palmfish

Here is a picture of my solution for keeping my A/V cabinet cool...











4 SilenX 90mm computer case fans with speed controller (hidden behind cabinet). They are triggered on/off automatically by the AVR. These fans are just a whisper at 1' and completely inaudible from 2'.


The camera flash greatly exaggerates how visible the back of the cabinet is...


----------



## rustester

Have anyone used Notebook Cooling Pad with built-in fans for their A/V equipment? Will this be a good option in place of making changes to cabinet?


----------



## dbone1026




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rustester* /forum/post/19713909
> 
> 
> Have anyone used Notebook Cooling Pad with built-in fans for their A/V equipment? Will this be a good option in place of making changes to cabinet?



This is what I use:

http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Profile-...3465447&sr=8-4


----------



## rustester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbone1026* /forum/post/19713924
> 
> 
> This is what I use:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Antec-Profile-...3465447&sr=8-4



How good is it? From reviews I found that the fans don't move much air around. I am not too excited to pay $75 for something that work so-so.


----------



## dbone1026




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rustester* /forum/post/19715758
> 
> 
> How good is it? From reviews I found that the fans don't move much air around. I am not too excited to pay $75 for something that work so-so.



I don't know how to exactly quantify how good it is. I have my Onkyo in a cabinet with the Cooler sitting on top of it and haven't had any heat issues. Also, what I like about it is it allows me t o stack another device on top of (something I wouldn't do if I didnt have the cooler in between)


----------



## 3fingerbrown

I tried reading through this thread some, but it was a bit too much information for me. So I apologize in advance for being under-educated on this, but I'm in a hurry and need a quick recommendation. I'm looking to buy a cooling fan for inside my AV cabinet. I want it to blow air out of the cabinet, thus I will mount the fan flush to the cabinet wall.


The fan must:


-be very quiet

-be USB or plug-in power

-turn on when a certain temperature is reached, and turn off when it is cool


At first I thought this Thermaltake fan would work, but I'm not sure it is thermal activated, and it looks like it has a speed knob protruding out that would prevent this fan from being flush mounted to a cabinet wall. Anyone have an alternate suggestion?


----------



## 3fingerbrown

After a bit of searching I found the solution from coolerguys.com:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082491.html


----------



## mko1024

Quote:

Originally Posted by *3fingerbrown* 
After a bit of searching I found the solution from coolerguys.com:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556082491.html
I use three of those. One in each section of my cabinet. They work great and are very quiet.


----------



## Dcmkx2000

Here is a pic of my 360 in my stand (temp display while listening to music through NET was up to 57C then began to drop to 43...volume at 27).









[/IMG]


I am going to buy some 120mm fans and power them from usb cables. Any fans you guys recommend that move a lot of air and are quiet?


*Which do you think would work best:*


1) Cut hole in the back of the cabinet where the receiver is located, mount 1 fan in the hole pulling air out, then have the other fan sitting on top of the receiver pulling hot air out of the receiver


2) Cut hole in the back of the cabinet where the receiver is located, Mount 1 fan on the back panel of the cabinet blowing forward over the top of the receiver, then have the other fan sitting on top of the receiver pulling hot air out of the receiver



Any other ideas?


----------



## Seawolfbronco

I just installed this kit from the CoolerGuys: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556092810.html 

I couldn't be more pleased. Yes, I can hear it when there is no sound playing, but it is not obnoxiously loud. I also have an HTPC in the cabinet. The four 120s are louder than my very quiet HTPC. The thermostat works great. I mounted the fans on the back of a Salamander 339 with mesh doors. Not the most efficient air path, but it makes a noticeable difference.


----------



## bricot

The Enermax Enlobal fans from Coolerguys are very quiet, can't hear them running, have to look and see if they are spinning. I went positive pressure ( i have glass doors on my cabinet to enclose them. Fan in the side blowing in and and one of the blower fans (made to sit on top of the equipment, draws air up through it). Your can hear those fans when its quiet. I have some holes in the back of the cabinet, filtered screens on the fans drawing air in, so the air thats blowing in should be relatively dust free.


----------



## niceguymr

This thread seems very informative. I thought I'd post my question here rather than start a new thread that way if someone else has a similar question, they'll find it easily like I found this thread.


First, my horrible MS paint illustration of where my AV Receiver will go:











My receiver will be in the bottom compartment. There is about 1" clearance between the back of the shelf and the top compartment. The front is encolsed by a solid wood door. (I will be using an IR repeater.) There is only a small hold near the top left corner where the cords go through. There will be an inch or two of space between the top of the receiver and the bottom of the shelf.


This thing really gets hot in there. I want to install a cooling system but I don't know if I should install fans blowing in and out, how many of each, and in which compartment. I'll probably go with something that coolerguys sells to keep my life simple, but I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices.


----------



## specd_out

I have had a fan setup in my tv stand since i purchased my VSX 32. I hate heat when mixed with electronics. My setup is very simple.


I used a old PSU from a old comp. Grounded the motherboard signal wire to the psu's ground. This allows me to run the PSU with out the need of a motherboard. I just flip the switch on the PSU to turn the fans on.

I also had a old belkin laptop cooler. I opened it up and on one half there are vanes which where used to duct the heat away from the laptop. They are raised so it creates pathways that air can flow through.

I mounted two 120mm fans to that half then screwed it to the top of my cabinet where the AVR sits.

So now the fans sit about 1.5" above the AVR, sucking the heat right out of the top of the AVR and then blows it through the ducts on the laptop cooler and then directly out of the cabinet.


It made a huge difference, it went from the AVR being very warm/hot to slightly warm after being on for a few hours watching movies at high volumes.

Since I am using a PSU i can add numerous fans. So any additional amps or hots spots i can keep cool.


----------



## specd_out




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niceguymr* /forum/post/20715729
> 
> 
> This thread seems very informative. I thought I'd post my question here rather than start a new thread that way if someone else has a similar question, they'll find it easily like I found this thread.
> 
> 
> First, my horrible MS paint illustration of where my AV Receiver will go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My receiver will be in the bottom compartment. There is about 1" clearance between the back of the shelf and the top compartment. The front is encolsed by a solid wood door. (I will be using an IR repeater.) There is only a small hold near the top left corner where the cords go through. There will be an inch or two of space between the top of the receiver and the bottom of the shelf.
> 
> 
> This thing really gets hot in there. I want to install a cooling system but I don't know if I should install fans blowing in and out, how many of each, and in which compartment. I'll probably go with something that coolerguys sells to keep my life simple, but I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices.




I would recommend 4 120mm fans two for each shelf. have them blow out the back.

The reason I say 4 is because you mentioned that the door will be shut and that you will use a repeater. If thats the case then you need to move alot of air since there will be no flow through of air other then what the fans do.


Some will say that 120 are over kill but there is a reason i use them over smaller fans. The 120 will spin slower but move more air then a faster smaller fan. The slower the fan speed the quieter it will be.


----------



## niceguymr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *specd_out* /forum/post/20716898
> 
> 
> I would recommend 4 120mm fans two for each shelf. have them blow out the back.
> 
> The reason I say 4 is because you mentioned that the door will be shut and that you will use a repeater. If thats the case then you need to move alot of air since there will be no flow through of air other then what the fans do.
> 
> 
> Some will say that 120 are over kill but there is a reason i use them over smaller fans. The 120 will spin slower but move more air then a faster smaller fan. The slower the fan speed the quieter it will be.



I know I said we would have the IR repeater, but we'd still try to use the equipment with the door open. Invariably what happens is that the door gets closed and sometimes we leave the equipment on for days without knowing (not producing sound output of course). Still, having no intake fans would concern me a little.


----------



## specd_out




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *niceguymr* /forum/post/20717366
> 
> 
> I know I said we would have the IR repeater, but we'd still try to use the equipment with the door open. Invariably what happens is that the door gets closed and sometimes we leave the equipment on for days without knowing (not producing sound output of course). Still, having no intake fans would concern me a little.



you have to be careful with having intake fans with exhaust fans. You want to make sure that you dont have more air coming in then going out. That creates heat pockets where air hot air cant get out. The idea is to create a slight vacuum by having more exhaust. So you dont have to have a intake fan for the cooling to be functional.


----------



## tpezanko

I have a wooden Ikea A/V unit (I know, I know) and while I've taken care to space out all the devices in there that generate large amounts of heat (AVR, xbox, ATV, Tivo), it still only has a few small cutouts in the back (homemade, I needed more spaces to run cables).


Should I look into getting some smaller exhaust fans to put on the back of the cabinet to help cool things down? There's no front door blocking airflow, so am I getting enough airflow? My stand is some what like the one niceguymr so expertly drew out, in which the bottom shelf leaves some space in the back for air from the bottom to rise up. Without the front door blocking the airflow, should my equipment be relatively safe?


----------



## Mad Bomber

I put a 200MM fan in my AV cabinet under the dish unit sucking air in from under the cabinet also a 120MM fan in the back pulling air out. My AVR sits ontop the cabinet with a 200MM on it pulling hot air out. I got a 12V converter cut the end off and hooked up all the fans. Just make sure that the converter will handle enough amps for the fans.


----------



## Stealth1

Could someone advise what else I would need beyond the following to add 3-4 of these fans to my cabinet. It is 2 seperate cabinets put together so I want to do 2 fans per cabinet, one pushing in and 1 pulling out most likely.


I believe I just need an adapter to go from the power adapter to the fans and that should be it.


Power Adapter - http://www.amazon.com/USB-2-0-SATA-C...6094066&sr=1-2 

Temp Controlled Fans - http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/cooling/ca...ctic-f-tc.html


----------



## RoughshorRod

WOW! This thread has been a huge help.

Here is what I am 
__
https://flic.kr/p/bf
​

The rear end of a Heathkit cabinet. Speakers are seperate cabinets.


Components are ~5-10 years old; SONY. New Polk RTiA3 will replace the 1970's era jensen speaker.


I'm still planning, but if anyone has extra ideas, let me know. I'll keep you posted.


Thanks to all the bright bulbs posting useful notes!!!


***maybe this will work

__
https://flic.kr/p/6730900167
​


----------



## Speed Daemon

IME it's rarely necessary to use forced air cooling with HT systems. First of all the components are designed to work properly with a nominal amount of ventilation. Perhaps more important is the amount of dust and other junk that fans will stir up and drop on the equipment. I like to open up the cases of my various components and computers, and blow out the dust once or twice a year. Quite often I find there's nothing to clean out!


I use standard 19" mount Anvil cases to mount most of my equipment in, even at home. (They're there, why not use them?) The biggest concession that I make to cooling is to install a perforated plate over the bottom few RU to allow cold air that collects on the ground to flow into the case. The rest is done by the chimney effect that causes a column of hot air to rise up the back of the case, carrying away the heat and replacing it with fresh cool air to make a continuous cycle.


If I feel that it's really necessary to hasten the cooling process, I'll use an inexpensive 6" clip-on fan that can be bought at Walgreen's every spring. I'll position it to blow up and away from the case, and take care not to blow into the case.


If you have an A/V closet, you should add a vent panel at the bottom of the door, and a duct at the top of the closet to circulate the air. Run a length of sound dampening flexduct from the top vent to the attic, and attach an exhaust fan at the far end to keep noise to a minimum. An always-on, thermostatically controlled variable speed fan is ideal. Just set it up and forget it.


----------



## Stealth1

I'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. Unless the cabinet has tons of circulation the air becomes trapped inside and continues to heat up with nothing circulating the air. I have a cabinet which i've cut holes in the back to run wiring etc. yet with the doors closed the AVR, Laptop, PS3 all give off a large amount of hot air. I've even received a warning when using my PS3 for extended periods of time to turn it off for awhile due to the temperature.


A simple fan pulling the air out the back should suffice for most applications, I doubt it's necessary to run more than 1 per cabinet.


For anyone looking for a simple kit I think this is a pretty good one that's been posted before - http://www.amazon.com/Cabcool-1201-2...7303423&sr=8-4 


If you want to DIY then this is what I put together. Total cost $49.90 Shipped.

- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YNQS/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details 

- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V6T5HW/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details 

- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MGG6SC/ref=oh_o03_s00_i00_details 

- http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NPEBM4/ref=oh_o03_s00_i01_details (x2)


----------



## Sr20kidD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stealth1* /forum/post/21534398
> 
> 
> I'd have to strongly disagree with your statement. Unless the cabinet has tons of circulation the air becomes trapped inside and continues to heat up with nothing circulating the air. I have a cabinet which i've cut holes in the back to run wiring etc. yet with the doors closed the AVR, Laptop, PS3 all give off a large amount of hot air. I've even received a warning when using my PS3 for extended periods of time to turn it off for awhile due to the temperature.
> 
> 
> A simple fan pulling the air out the back should suffice for most applications, I doubt it's necessary to run more than 1 per cabinet.
> 
> 
> For anyone looking for a simple kit I think this is a pretty good one that's been posted before - http://www.amazon.com/Cabcool-1201-2...7303423&sr=8-4
> 
> 
> If you want to DIY then this is what I put together. Total cost $49.90 Shipped.
> 
> - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002G1YNQS/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details
> 
> - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V6T5HW/ref=oh_o02_s00_i00_details
> 
> - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MGG6SC/ref=oh_o03_s00_i00_details
> 
> - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001NPEBM4/ref=oh_o03_s00_i01_details (x2)



I did the same as I had all these parts laying around from all my previous pc builds. Except that now I am waiting on x2 200mm fans with red LEDs that I will be adding. Overkill maybe.


----------



## tomandbeth

FWIW, found this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00 


Which is used with a few computer fans and 12V power supply from Acopian (Model DB12-50). I place the switch in line from the A/C wall plug to the power supply. The power supply referenced above is 1/2 amp, but download the spec sheet and it'll help you find the one you need off Ebay.


----------



## B|G1

Hey!


I'm looking for 3 small fans I can use to cool down the equipment.


Any ideas? The media player is fanless and is sitting on top of my NAD C275BEE power amplifier








so it is getting a little bit hot...


I want to mount the small fans on the back of the tv-bench.


It is important that they I don't hear the fan noise. They don't need to move THAT much air to keep things cool..


----------



## palmfish

Here's what I used...

http://www.amazon.com/Silenx-IXAFCEX.../dp/B0030EZLSO 










http://www.silenx.com/quiet.fans.asp?sku=ixp-76-14 


No miscellaneous parts needed - it's plug and play.


I use a "smart strip" with my AVR to automatically turn the fans on whenever my AVR powers on. The fan controller lets you adjust each fans speed individually so you can slow them down if they are too loud (these Silenx fans are very quiet though - even at full speed I cannot hear the fans (I run 4) unless I stand right in front of my cabinet). The blue LEDs next to each pot are bright - I face them down on the carpet/floor so they don't glow behind my cabinet. A piece of tape would solve this too I suppose...


----------



## B|G1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *palmfish* /forum/post/22017585
> 
> 
> 
> I use a "smart strip" with my AVR to automatically turn the fans on whenever my AVR powers on. The fan controller lets you adjust each fans speed individually so you can slow them down if they are too loud (these Silenx fans are very quiet though - even at full speed I cannot hear the fans (I run 4) unless I stand right in front of my cabinet). The blue LEDs next to each pot are bright - I face them down on the carpet/floor so they don't glow behind my cabinet. A piece of tape would solve this too I suppose...



Thanks!


I don't understand what you mean by "smart strip"







Can you explain? Picture?


----------



## TheWind




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *B|G1* /forum/post/22017679
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "smart strip"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you explain? Picture?




Here are two different takes on Smart Power Strips. I have both of these and I think they often go on sale. There are many others too.

* Smart Strip SCG4 *

* APC BE750G Power Saving Battery Back-UPS *


You'd plug your receiver into the master socket and your fan(s) into a slave socket. Leave the fan On. Your fan will now turn on and off just as if they were part of your receiver.


*_Oh yeah, you can get the same results if you have a switched power outlet on the back of your receiver._

.


----------



## B|G1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheWind* /forum/post/22017974
> 
> 
> Here are two different takes on Smart Power Strips. I have both of these and I think they often go on sale. There are many others too.
> 
> * Smart Strip SCG4 *
> 
> * APC BE750G Power Saving Battery Back-UPS *
> 
> 
> You'd plug your receiver into the master socket and your fan(s) into a slave socket. Leave the fan On. Your fan will now turn on and off just as if they were part of your receiver.
> 
> 
> *_Oh yeah, you can get the same results if you have a switched power outlet on the back of your receiver._
> 
> .



Thanks for the help!

Think I'm going for 4x IXP-52-14 fans because of the thin size







2 for NAD power amplifier, 1 for media player and 1 for decoder.


----------



## jekbrown

Anyone have any tips on switching a standard PC case fan on via the 12v trigger on the back of my Denon AVR2313? Not looking to power the fan via the trigger....just tell the fan to turn on. I know it's possible and the AV cooler guy on ebay sells fan kits that include a module to do this....but he doesn't sell said module seperately as far as I can tell and I'd like to use different fans/speed controllers. Any tips?


----------



## SAM64

Use a relay


----------



## Audioguy1

Hi all,


I was thinking of going with 2 120mm fans from cool components. The application is a large av cabinet that will be cooling a power amp. The units are variable speed, always on(not interested in thermal control), and will be powered through a switched outlet.


Does anyone have any feedback on the cool components units in terms of problems or noise complaints?


Thanks in advance


----------



## arnyk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shopping-TVs*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet#post_5834272
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to add a cooling fan to an A/V Cabinet? I've found many fans at places like Fry's or Radioshack, but I am not sure how to wire the unit to an AC plug? I'm not too savy when it comes to electrical. Any advice appreciated!



The first thing to consider is a passive approach to improving cooling. I was having problems with my AVR overheating while listening to action movies at high levels. I bored a hole several inches in diameter behind the AVR and just below the top of the cabinet. The problem went away and the whole cabinet's internal temperature dropped.


I was seriously considering a solution with cooling fans, but it became unecessary.


If I was adding cooling fans, I would worry about increased noise. Large diameter fans turning at slow speeds address this problem. I would also want to have some kind of speed control so that the fan was turning no faster than would be required to obtain the desired amount of cooling.


Here is a package of products that I would consider:


(1) A 12 volt DC power supply. Even the largest fans only use a few tenths of an amp, so a 1/2 or 1 amp power supply would suffice:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_252808_-1 

 


A fan speed controller:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811998129 

 


A large diameter slow speed fan:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835345007


----------



## arnyk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jekbrown*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/540#post_22438614
> 
> 
> Anyone have any tips on switching a standard PC case fan on via the 12v trigger on the back of my Denon AVR2313? Not looking to power the fan via the trigger....just tell the fan to turn on. I know it's possible and the AV cooler guy on ebay sells fan kits that include a module to do this....but he doesn't sell said module seperately as far as I can tell and I'd like to use different fans/speed controllers. Any tips?



There are usually a bunch of spare power connectors inside the PC. The ground line is usually a black wire and the 12 volt line is usually a yellow wire. The connectors are usually the type called "molex". You can buy these connectors in electronics store or you can liberate one from a cheap CPU fan. The power drawn by PC case fans is usually trivial and running them directly from PC power should have no bad side effects.


----------



## Foxtrot_01

Hello all, I am trying to revive this as someone might have come up with new things, I actually found this at walmart, it's a power adapter that has molex adapters so you just need the fan(newegg has good prices)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103052&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Case+Fans-_-N82E16835103052&gclid=CNSer6jTibcCFcXe4Aod9j8Ang 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/16318477?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem#Item+Description 




this is my new project and it's just on the planning, I am trying to cool off an Onkyo HT-S5000 which I heard gets pretty hot.


I am trying to use some stuff that I have lying in the house, I have several old desktops with their power supply but I think that might be overkill to power two 120mm computer fans, also the power supplies are the size of a brick. I also have several power adapters from an IBM laptop thinkpad T41(I think these are 9v) not sure if these will work.


Any advice on either using the desktop powersupply or the laptop power adapter?



This is the technical info for the laptop power adapter, 16V might be too much?



AC adapter: This ac-to-dc converter supplies the necessary power to the computer. The ac adapter also charges the battery pack when it is installed in the computer.

Universal AC adapter (72 W):

Input is 100/240V AC, 1.4/0.7A, 50/60Hz

Output is 16 V dc, 4.5 A


----------



## jautor

A small "wall wart" DC power supply will power a fan. Look at the amperage rating of the fan and buy one that meets the specs. I used one of the "universal" DC adapters with adjustable voltage - which works as way to adjust the fan speed (a static setting). A laptop power supply is way overkill, too. These fans are usually


----------



## Gizmologist

Also be sure that there is an adequate sized air intake as too small an intake will cause the fan to over heat as well as increase its noise level. - sort of like blocking the hose on a vacuum cleaner. Use convection to help move air. Cool air should enter at the bottom front of the rack and exhaust near the top rear.


----------



## Foxtrot_01

Hello,

I need some advice, I don't know much of this but from my research these are the two methods that I am looking at with their aprox costs.


Any advice on either one of the methods is much appreciated, I want to know if I really need a CPU fan speed controller as it gets a little complicated with the molex connectors or should I just strip the cables and solder them, if not I think I might have to purchase additional molex connectors/adapters



This is an instructive I found only, this is the cheap method.

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Cooling-Fan-For-Under-10-Bucks/step2/Making-the-connections/ 


*So Method one, cheap method*

- one DC 9v adapter, I can find one in the house, 9V instead of 12v as it will have the two fans running slower than at 12V - if this is inaccurate please let me know. *cost- free*

- 2 CPU 120mm CPU fans - newegg has 4 of these for $14 free shipping

- one on/off 12v switch cost $5 

wires will be stripped and connected to the switch, this is for a two fan setup
*total aprox cost $13* per set up.( I am looking to build two of these 2 fan setups)


Method two


- 2 CPU 120mm CPU fans - newegg has 4 of these for $14 free shipping

- one on/off 12v switch cost $5 

- one CPU 3 or 4 pin speed fan controller - ebay $4 

- one Raidmax molex 12V DC adapter from walmart $12 shipped 

aprox cost per set up : $28


----------



## palmfish

Why dont you just use one of these...

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5472147&SRCCODE=WEBGOOPA&cm_mmc_o=mH4CjC7BBTkwCjCV1-CjCE&gclid=CNyiz7KgjLcCFUVyQgodAycA6g 


Ive been using one for three years with 4 SilenX 120mm case fans and it works perfectly.


----------



## migraine24-7

So glad I stumbled onto this thread. I've got a issue and need advice. I'm building a custom AV rack/cabinet. I will need fans to help keep it cool. My design is to put a fan or two at the bottom bringing air in and a fan at the top to exhaust hot air. So here are my questions:


1) Thinking of using the Pyle PFN41. But is it thermostat controlled or does it just display the temp?

2) If it is thermostat controlled can I wire in 1 or 2 Pyle PFN31? This way they would all kick on together.

3) If this whole plan sucks







what options would you recommend? I'm working on it this wknd and need an answer ASAP. I don't need to install the fans this wknd but do need to plan where they're going and how I'll route everything. Thanks


----------



## Audiguy3

After skimming through this post I found this higher quality component: http://www.coolcomponents.com/Component-Cooling-System-_p_191.html 

 


I might consider it for my Marantz 8801. I don't remember seeing a link to them in any of the posting here but if it is I wonder if there are any reviews?


----------



## crakarjax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Audiguy3*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24103614
> 
> 
> After skimming through this post I found this higher quality component: http://www.coolcomponents.com/Component-Cooling-System-_p_191.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might consider it for my Marantz 8801. I don't remember seeing a link to them in any of the posting here but if it is I wonder if there are any reviews?



It's metal box with some fans and a wall wart, not much that can go wrong there unless they skimp on the fans. Even at that, you can get 4 new fans for like $15 at newegg.


----------



## Howard-Canning

Hi guys,


Sorry to bump a relatively old thread but I've been reading casually through it to garner a few ideas regarding cabinet cooling.


I've just today added a couple of silent 120MM fans to the rear of my cabinet, which is closed at the sides and mostly at the back (apart from some cable holes).


The cabinet has two shelves with my AV amp and Meridian power amp sitting together on the bottom shelf.


Prior to adding the fans there was a lot of hot air gathering in the bottom half around the amps and the top of the Onkyo was hot to the touch.


Now that I've added the fans, the amp casings are much, much cooler to the touch and the general 'atmosphere' in this little area is much cooler. This leads me to believe the fans are doing a good job of pulling in cool outside air through the front of the cabinet over the equipment.



However.. the onboard temp readout of my Onkyo 705 (using the 'hidden' temp menu) seems to read a couple of degrees (Celsius) higher with the fans on when "idling".



This is weird and doesn't tie in with the lower "ambient" and casing temps!


Should I ignore the onboard reading and consider the lower temperatures a good thing?



Thanks


----------



## jautor

Very possible the onboard temperature sensor is getting a different reading as the airflow changes when the fans are on. If the temperature measured around the components is lower, and you aren't blocking up any passive venting on the components, then you're fine...


----------



## GEENOWALKER


http://middleatlantic.com/pdf/ThermalManagement.pdf


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## Stettin

I currently have an enclosed cabinet with two levels. Bottom level is a Yamaha AVR that gets pretty hot. There is less than one inch clearance to the shelf above it. The top shelf has my mini-ITX HTPC. There are two holes at each level in the back. The top level currently has a USB fan that I recently discovered had died. For some reason the fan would run even with the HTPC off. Even so, it didn't cool off the cabinet that much, so I've resorted to cracking the door open for some more air flow when the AVR and HTPC are on.


I have these 120mm 12v fans ($5-7 after rebate 4x each):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835553002 


and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835553001 


I wired a Molex connector to an old 12v 1A AC Adapter and tested the non-PWM fans. They run pretty quiet at the stock voltage, so I'm leaning toward using those. I'm looking for a recommendation on the push/pull and location for 2 or more fans in this cabinet. I would cut out holes for the 120mm fans. I have a smart power strip that should be able to turn the fans on through the AC adapter when the HTPC is on. I've also considered a slight case mod to pass a molex through the back of the case.


I might be able to mount the AVR on the top shelf, but it would be a major PITA. As it is now, I get about 1/4 inch clearance when sliding it in at a 45 degree angle, then setting it on the bottom. Please assume the AVR will remain on the bottom.


Should I seal up the existing wire holes so that the only entrance/exit are the new fan holes?


----------



## DGF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stettin*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24784544
> 
> 
> I currently have an enclosed cabinet with two levels. Bottom level is a Yamaha AVR that gets pretty hot. There is less than one inch clearance to the shelf above it. The top shelf has my mini-ITX HTPC. There are two holes at each level in the back. The top level currently has a USB fan that I recently discovered had died. For some reason the fan would run even with the HTPC off. Even so, it didn't cool off the cabinet that much, so I've resorted to cracking the door open for some more air flow when the AVR and HTPC are on..........]



Not sure I have any earth-shattering advice, but here are a few rambling thoughts:


To blow air efficiently out of the enclosure you need to allow an equal volume of air into the space - this is why cracking your doors open helps lower the overall temps. One of the ways to do this in your situation is to drill a couple of holes in the base (assuming that the lowest shelf is not above a sealed space) and in the intermediate shelf - at a minimum this allows the air to rise passively as it gets warmed. Another approach might be to cut an additional pair of holes in the right hand side of the back [maybe even constructing a rectangular 'periscope-like' plenum behind the holes that allows cooler air to be drawn in from floor level] to provide unrestricted ingress of the coolest air in the room into the cabinet.


Most PCs suck air in from the front and blow it out of the rear of the case - if this is true for you, I'd make sure that I had a hole lined up with the rear exhaust port/grill to ensure that the hot air stood the best chance of actually being ejected from the cabinet. I'd be concerned that the current location of your top fan means that it is fighting with the fan in the HTPC - compromising getting airflow through the PC's enclosure as the designer intended. For the HTPC shelf, if this were my set up I'd again probably locate a hole a the far right side and use a fan and the plenum concept to suck cooler air into the upper void, I'd then construct some form of cowling immediately behind the HTPCs exhaust opening (making it as airtight as possible to minimize leakage back into the cabinet) and cut a hole in the cabinet immediately behind this - assuming the PC's fan is adequate, there probably is no need to use a second fan to blow air out of the top shelf space. The limited clearance in front of the HTPC will obviously impede the efficient flow of air into the case, but if you're getting cooler air into that top space you are in a much better place than before.


In terms of swapping the two units, the general rule of thumb is to locate the devices in descending order of heat output - putting the one that generates the most heat at the top. I suspect that the HTPC probably emits more heat than your AVR, so I think you're good as is. It's not clear if there is a gap behind the middle shelf, but you obviously still need to deal with the AVR's thermal output. I know that vertically centering your holes is the right thing to do from an aesthetic point of view, but you need to consider the airflow path through the AVR - with your proposed config there's a possibility you could be trying to blow air into the cabinet very near to where the AVR is trying to exhaust it, I can't tell. Again, you need a similar sized hole for air to enter the enclosure as you have for exhausting it - don't confuse stirring up the air with actually pulling cool air in, getting it to pass appropriately through the components, and exhausting it properly from the cabinet


If you can face it, the doc linked to by Geenowalker is a probably the definitive treatise on 'thermal heat management' - it gives you the fundamental tenets of how best to avoid frying your gear.


Hope something here helps!


Dave


----------



## cohocarl

Just a thought... I know there are usb powered fans for laptops, etc. But has anyone seen anything similar that is HDMI powered? (I didn't see anything on Newegg or Ebay)

Would this work? Have a "passthru" jack similar to the USB powered one pictured, but utilizing HDMI tapping into the 5V leads..(?)


----------



## Stettin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DGF*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24798049
> 
> 
> Not sure I have any earth-shattering advice, but here are a few rambling thoughts:
> 
> 
> To blow air efficiently out of the enclosure you need to allow an equal volume of air into the space - this is why cracking your doors open helps lower the overall temps. One of the ways to do this in your situation is to drill a couple of holes in the base (assuming that the lowest shelf is not above a sealed space) and in the intermediate shelf - at a minimum this allows the air to rise passively as it gets warmed. Another approach might be to cut an additional pair of holes in the right hand side of the back [maybe even constructing a rectangular 'periscope-like' plenum behind the holes that allows cooler air to be drawn in from floor level] to provide unrestricted ingress of the coolest air in the room into the cabinet.
> 
> 
> Most PCs suck air in from the front and blow it out of the rear of the case - if this is true for you, I'd make sure that I had a hole lined up with the rear exhaust port/grill to ensure that the hot air stood the best chance of actually being ejected from the cabinet. I'd be concerned that the current location of your top fan means that it is fighting with the fan in the HTPC - compromising getting airflow through the PC's enclosure as the designer intended. For the HTPC shelf, if this were my set up I'd again probably locate a hole a the far right side and use a fan and the plenum concept to suck cooler air into the upper void, I'd then construct some form of cowling immediately behind the HTPCs exhaust opening (making it as airtight as possible to minimize leakage back into the cabinet) and cut a hole in the cabinet immediately behind this - assuming the PC's fan is adequate, there probably is no need to use a second fan to blow air out of the top shelf space. The limited clearance in front of the HTPC will obviously impede the efficient flow of air into the case, but if you're getting cooler air into that top space you are in a much better place than before.
> 
> 
> In terms of swapping the two units, the general rule of thumb is to locate the devices in descending order of heat output - putting the one that generates the most heat at the top. I suspect that the HTPC probably emits more heat than your AVR, so I think you're good as is. It's not clear if there is a gap behind the middle shelf, but you obviously still need to deal with the AVR's thermal output. I know that vertically centering your holes is the right thing to do from an aesthetic point of view, but you need to consider the airflow path through the AVR - with your proposed config there's a possibility you could be trying to blow air into the cabinet very near to where the AVR is trying to exhaust it, I can't tell. Again, you need a similar sized hole for air to enter the enclosure as you have for exhausting it - don't confuse stirring up the air with actually pulling cool air in, getting it to pass appropriately through the components, and exhausting it properly from the cabinet
> 
> 
> If you can face it, the doc linked to by Geenowalker is a probably the definitive treatise on 'thermal heat management' - it gives you the fundamental tenets of how best to avoid frying your gear.
> 
> 
> Hope something here helps!
> 
> 
> Dave



I got impatient and cross posted over in the HTPC forum. Actually, my AVR produces much more heat than the HTPC, but is too wide to slide in horizontally. This was bad planning on my part when reading the dimensions of the entertainment center. I failed to take into account the borders on the inside of the cabinet space when comparing measurements. Luckily I can get the AVR in at a 45 degree angle and set down gently. It would take two people to get it in with the middle shelf already on the bottom, then slowly raise it up and place the peg supports in to get it on the top. There is about a 1-2" gap in the back of the cabinet. I tried to illustrate that with the HTPC hanging just over the edge.


I will try swapping the HTPC / AVR if adding the 120mm fans doesn't sufficiently cool the cabinet. In either case, would you suggest cutting the NEW hole on the top level as close to the top of the cabinet as possible? I don't really care about aesthetics for the back holes because you can barely see back there anyway. Also the bottom of the cabinet isn't flush with the ground, but I'm really hesitant to drill holes unless at a last resort.


I'm thinking of doing an intake 120mm in the bottom, exhaust at the top, covering up the remaining back middle holes that the cables are routing through.


Unfortunately that link is broken. Does anyone have an alternate link? Could it be this one? http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/AN4679.pdf


----------



## Johnla




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cohocarl*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24802177
> 
> 
> Just a thought... I know there are usb powered fans for laptops, etc. But has anyone seen anything similar that is HDMI powered? (I didn't see anything on Newegg or Ebay)
> 
> Would this work? Have a "passthru" jack similar to the USB powered one pictured, but utilizing HDMI tapping into the 5V leads..(?)



Do you really want to risk blowing out your HDMI boards in the AVR or TV, by making it try to do something like powering a add-on fan that it was not designed to do?


----------



## cohocarl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnla*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24802271
> 
> 
> Do you really want to risk blowing out your HDMI boards in the AVR or TV, by making it try to do something like powering a add-on fan that it was not designed to do?



Depends on how much load the HDMI boards are designed to handle. I don't think the USB was originally designed for being a power supply either. Just wondering if it would be possible, and if anyone has tried it.


----------



## DGF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stettin*  /t/555644/add-cooling-fan-to-a-v-cabinet/570#post_24802243
> 
> 
> I got impatient and cross posted over in the HTPC forum. Actually, my AVR produces much more heat than the HTPC, but is too wide to slide in horizontally. This was bad planning on my part when reading the dimensions of the entertainment center. I failed to take into account the borders on the inside of the cabinet space when comparing measurements. Luckily I can get the AVR in at a 45 degree angle and set down gently. It would take two people to get it in with the middle shelf already on the bottom, then slowly raise it up and place the peg supports in to get it on the top. There is about a 1-2" gap in the back of the cabinet. I tried to illustrate that with the HTPC hanging just over the edge.
> 
> 
> I will try swapping the HTPC / AVR if adding the 120mm fans doesn't sufficiently cool the cabinet. In either case, would you suggest cutting the NEW hole on the top level as close to the top of the cabinet as possible? I don't really care about aesthetics for the back holes because you can barely see back there anyway. Also the bottom of the cabinet isn't flush with the ground, but I'm really hesitant to drill holes unless at a last resort.
> 
> 
> I'm thinking of doing an intake 120mm in the bottom, exhaust at the top, covering up the remaining back middle holes that the cables are routing through.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately that link is broken. Does anyone have an alternate link? Could it be this one? http://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/AN4679.pdf



If you're shifting enough air through the cabinet then the vertical order of the components isn't overly critical, so do try any mods first before going through the pain of swapping the two units.


If the new hole is for exhausting air out of the cabinet, then yes, the higher the better - just make sure you're not pulling incoming air away from the devices' cooling intakes. You also need to ensure that you're actually ejecting warmed air, not air that is pulled in straight from any intake holes - messing up the path the air takes through the cabinet and equipment is a frequent design error for these types of cabinets. I'm not sure of the reasons for your hesitation around cutting holes in the base, but this is a great way to get the coolest air in the room into the cabinet.


Re. the doc link - you found an interesting piece, but not one that's overly relevant to your situation - try this one: http://www.middleatlantic.com/~/media/MiddleAtlantic/Documents/WhitePapers/ThermalManagement.ashx 


Dave


----------

