# Half SBS and Full SBS, can someone explain it?



## Charlie_P

I have a Sony 3d TV and my media player is the WDTV LIVE. I also have the Sony 3d blu-ray player.


I've found some MKV videos on the internet that are labeled as half SBS. I downloaded them and I can play them on the WDTV. The video has 2 frames side by side and when I manually switch the TV to 3D mode and select the side by side format, the frames become one and I get some awesome 3d!










So, i poked around more on the internet and found more stuff. Some labeled half SBS and some FULL SBS.


I was wondering in anyone can explain what is half SBS vs full SBS. Is it likely that if I'm able to play these half SBS full SBS will play also? What is half about the half sbs? Is the resolution half? Half of the source it was encoded from?


Sorry for the newb questions. I'd just like to get a grasp of what I'm looking at with this format. Thanks!


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## Lee Stewart

This is 1920x1080i SbS. When you see them on your 3DTV, they will be 960x1080i each.


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## Charlie_P

Thanks.


So does that mean it is 1/2 the resolution? In other words 1/2 the quality?


So a FULL SBS two 1960x1080 side by side? I'm guessing the player (in my case a wdtv live) would need to support this very large resolution?


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## ejqly

Yes Full SBS is 1920 x 1080p on both frames. So it's huge.


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## Lee Stewart

AFAIK, the only 3D format that gives you Full HD per eye is the frame packed format used for 3D BD:











SbS is one of the frame compatible 3D formats which uses a 1920x1080 frame to house 2 seperate frames. Another is Top/Bottom (aka Over/Under) which ESPN is using in the 1280x720 format. This results in 2 images each 1280x360:


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## Charlie_P

Thanks so much. That is great information.


So about full SBS, those files can't be played back on a 3d TV because there is not enough resolution? Maybe if a PC was playing the file on the TV but then it would be down sampled to the TV resolution anyway. (?)


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## Lee Stewart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charlie_P* /forum/post/19466711
> 
> 
> Thanks so much. That is great information.
> 
> 
> So about full SBS, those files can't be played back on a 3d TV because there is not enough resolution? Maybe if a PC was playing the file on the TV but then it would be down sampled to the TV resolution anyway. (?)



I never heard of SbS Full. Do you have a link you can post?


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## NSX1992

Is there a difference between a ISO copy of a movie and an Half SBS copy? The Half SBS has about one third bytes so is the picture quality the same?


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## peter0328

ISO=full 1080p per eye.

Half SBS=960x1080 per eye


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## Ettepet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lee Stewart* /forum/post/19467300
> 
> 
> I never heard of SbS Full. Do you have a link you can post?



Isn't the Tron Legacy Trailer on www.biohemmet.se done in full SBS (3840*1080}?


I'm already trying to find out how to play it on my Samsung. Streaming?


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## BlackShark

Full resolution side by side is pretty easy to find and use if your source is a computer.

The problem is if you intend to use stand alone hardware players that do not offer the flexibility a computer has.


With a computer you can store a 3D movie side by side, over/under or in separate files at any resolution and aspect ratio, be it half or full size, you could even have 4K full resolution 3D if you wanted to. The problem then isn't about the file, it's how to transmit the decoded picture to the display.


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## almostinsane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ettepet* /forum/post/19486206
> 
> 
> Isn't the Tron Legacy Trailer on www.biohemmet.se done in full SBS (3840*1080}?
> 
> 
> I'm already trying to find out how to play it on my Samsung. Streaming?



Play it with a computer and stereoscopic player.


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## delt31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NSX1992* /forum/post/19467318
> 
> 
> Is there a difference between a ISO copy of a movie and an Half SBS copy? The Half SBS has about one third bytes so is the picture quality the same?



Can someone answer this? I would like to know


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## Ettepet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *almostinsane* /forum/post/19486438
> 
> 
> Play it with a computer and stereoscopic player.



Is there a way to get full stereoscopic resolution to my samsung 3D lcd? The player I downloaded doesn't seem to support a proper 'Blu-Ray 3D' like output through hdmi, but only half resolution SBS/etc.


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## Ettepet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *delt31* /forum/post/19486499
> 
> 
> Can someone answer this? I would like to know



This was answered in post #9.


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## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ettepet* /forum/post/19486899
> 
> 
> Is there a way to get full stereoscopic resolution to my samsung 3D lcd? The player I downloaded doesn't seem to support a proper 'Blu-Ray 3D' like output through hdmi, but only half resolution SBS/etc.



This is because the video player alone can't output to this format.


You have to use the "hdmi1.4-like" features of your graphics card.

If your graphics card is an Nvidia, you have to use Nvidia 3DTV play

If your graphics card is an ATi/AMD, you have to use AMD HD3D


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## almostinsane

3DTV Play isn't needed for Blu-ray 3D. It's only needed for 3D gaming.


You need Power DVD or TMT to play a 3D Blu-ray ISO/Disc.


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## BlackShark

He doesn't want to play a BluRay3D in a $100+ software.

Just play a full resolution FullHD 3D video.


Does Stereoscopic player Nvidia 3DTV output work for free or do you need to unlock 3DTV play to make it work ?


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## delt31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ettepet* /forum/post/19486906
> 
> 
> This was answered in post #9.



technically I can see that it's not 1080p per eye but when in comparison, is the quality diff noticeable?


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark* /forum/post/19487896
> 
> 
> He doesn't want to play a BluRay3D in a $100+ software.
> 
> Just play a full resolution FullHD 3D video.
> 
> 
> Does Stereoscopic player Nvidia 3DTV output work for free or do you need to unlock 3DTV play to make it work ?



Yes, 3DTV Play is the only way to output full HD 3D via HDMI 1.4 which is acceptable by all 3D TVs.


Mathew Orman


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *delt31* /forum/post/19486499
> 
> 
> Can someone answer this? I would like to know



Yes,


the ISO has MVC coded differential stereo format like 2D + Delta and it is also content protected against unauthorized copying. Also it has BD menus and extras. SbS is usually a trailer of a 3D movie or a bootleg of ISO rip with protection removed.

The Russian Empire has many websites with bootleg titles like AVATAR and all others. They have copy rights endorsed by nuclear power


Mathew Orman


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## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icester* /forum/post/19489090
> 
> 
> The Russian Empire has many websites with bootleg titles like AVATAR and all others. They have copy rights endorsed by nuclear power



The Cold war is over, Russia uses a much more powerful weapon to make other countries shut up, and it doesn't involve war : they sell oil and natural gas.


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark* /forum/post/19489399
> 
> 
> The Cold war is over, Russia uses a much more powerful weapon to make other countries shut up, and it doesn't involve war : they sell oil and natural gas.



It was just a joke about bootleg 3D movies that you can download.


Mathew Orman


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## Ettepet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark* /forum/post/19487074
> 
> 
> This is because the video player alone can't output to this format.
> 
> 
> You have to use the "hdmi1.4-like" features of your graphics card.
> 
> If your graphics card is an Nvidia, you have to use Nvidia 3DTV play
> 
> If your graphics card is an ATi/AMD, you have to use AMD HD3D



Thanks for the info!











Is there a (full-HD) 3D streaming solution (Dune, etc.) available yet so you don't need to buy a new pc + compatible video-card?







(Am using a non-compatible laptop myself)


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ettepet* /forum/post/19490104
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a (full-HD) 3D streaming solution (Dune, etc.) available yet so you don't need to buy a new pc + compatible video-card?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Am using a non-compatible laptop myself)



No, you need powerful HTPC for full 3D HD playback.


Mathew Orman


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## DoanThaiTu

Charlie, I have the same setup, using WD TV LIVE PLUS, would you care to share calibration settings?


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## Charlie_P

Quote:

Originally Posted by *DoanThaiTu* 
Charlie, I have the same setup, using WD TV LIVE PLUS, would you care to share calibration settings?
Hi there. I dont know what calibration you mean, but this is how I play Half SBS media with my WDTV Live! and SONY tv.


1st you need the WDTV connected to the TV with HDMI.

When you play the half SBS media you will see 2 frames of the movie side by side.

On the TV remote press the 3D button

Press OPTIONS and select 3D options

go down to 3d method and change it from SIMULATED to SIDE BY SIDE.


Thats it. The media will be in 3d, and it works great. I prefer it to actual 3d blu-ray because there is no flicker like that horrible ficker you get from 1080p24 that blu-rays play in.


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## perfectdark

i have the WDTV Live and it plays Half SBS but it will not play FULL SBS (1080p L and 1080p R)


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## Charlie_P

Quote:

Originally Posted by *perfectdark* 
i have the WDTV Live and it plays Half SBS but it will not play FULL SBS (1080p L and 1080p R)
Thats right, What I learned from this thread is that full SBS being 2 1080 frames side by side is not a standard resolution TVs currently support. So the WDTV doesnt support the resolution either.


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## perfectdark

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Charlie_P* 
Thats right, What I learned from this thread is that full SBS being 2 1080 frames side by side is not a standard resolution TVs currently support. So the WDTV doesnt support the resolution either.
cool have you tried the FULL BLURAY ISO files with your WDTV Live yet? They are like 30+ GB so i haven't bothered to download them, but am wondering if they work and if so do they have noticeable better quality and less ghosting


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## Jadocs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icester* /forum/post/19490674
> 
> 
> No, you need powerful HTPC for full 3D HD playback.
> 
> 
> Mathew Orman



Dune claims to play ISO. Can you explain why you say HTPC is the only option?


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jadocs* /forum/post/19639610
> 
> 
> Dune claims to play ISO. Can you explain why you say HTPC is the only option?



Blu-ray 3D ISO image is not frame compatible and to play it one can only use Blu-ray player or HTPC.

TV set top boxes do not decode or play ripped ISO images of 3D Blu-ray disks.



Mathew Orman


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## Jadocs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icester* /forum/post/19639686
> 
> 
> Blu-ray 3D ISO image is not frame compatible and to play it one can only use Blu-ray player or HTPC.
> 
> TV set top boxes do not decode or play ripped ISO images of 3D Blu-ray disks.
> 
> 
> 
> Mathew Orman



You seem to know your stuff, so I'm confused. Can you explain this:



> Quote:
> Video file formats: MKV, MPEG-TS, MPEG-PS, M2TS, VOB, AVI, MOV, MP4, QT, ASF, WMV, *Blu-ray-ISO*, BDMV, DVD-ISO, VIDEO_TS



It supposedly plays direct from the HD

http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/curren...ne-hd-max.html


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jadocs* /forum/post/19639719
> 
> 
> You seem to know your stuff, so I'm confused. Can you explain this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It supposedly plays direct from the HD
> 
> http://dune-hd.com/hd_players/curren...ne-hd-max.html



You need *3D Blue-ray ISO* in the supported file format list.

Plain Blu-ray format is 2D only.


Mathew Orman


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## Jadocs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icester* /forum/post/19639751
> 
> 
> You need *3D Blue-ray ISO* in the supported file format list.
> 
> Plain Blu-ray format is 2D only.
> 
> 
> Mathew Orman



Interesting, I thought there might be a difference after I replied and re-read your post.


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## Ron Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *perfectdark* /forum/post/19637209
> 
> 
> cool have you tried the FULL BLURAY ISO files with your WDTV Live yet? They are like 30+ GB so i haven't bothered to download them, but am wondering if they work and if so do they have noticeable better quality and less ghosting



WDTV Live, nor any other standalone media player I've heard of, can play 3D at full 1080p per eye. ISOs for regular 2D BDs are supported on some of the media players but the best they can support for Blu-ray 3D rips using the 1080 side-by-side 3D format which are always half resolution (there is no such thing as full resolution side-by-side in the 3DTV video formats currently defined by the HDMI 1.4a standard). Full resolution 3D requires the Frame Packing format and that is what is used on all Blu-ray 3D discs and thus any ISO for a Blu-ray 3D will be in the frame packing format and the media player would have to support HDMI 1.4 to output the video, but none currently have this capability. Note that it is possible to equip a HTPC with the appropriate hardware and software to play Blu-ray 3D ISO, but we will have to wait until at least the next generation of standalone media players to get the capability.


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## perfectdark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* /forum/post/19643915
> 
> 
> WDTV Live, nor any other standalone media player I've heard of, can play 3D at full 1080p per eye. ISOs for regular 2D BDs are supported on some of the media players but the best they can support for Blu-ray 3D rips using the 1080 side-by-side 3D format which are always half resolution (there is no such thing as full resolution side-by-side in the 3DTV video formats currently defined by the HDMI 1.4a standard). Full resolution 3D requires the Frame Packing format and that is what is used on all Blu-ray 3D discs and thus any ISO for a Blu-ray 3D will be in the frame packing format and the media player would have to support HDMI 1.4 to output the video, but none currently have this capability. Note that it is possible to equip a HTPC with the appropriate hardware and software to play Blu-ray 3D ISO, but we will have to wait until at least the next generation of standalone media players to get the capability.



thanks... yeah i found my answer


Went over to my buddies house who has the optoma HD66 3D front projector hooked up to a PC using the sterescopic player and he was playing Bluray SBS rip of Deep Blue Sea (or some IMAX sea movie) and WOW







it was like the dam fish were 8 feet wide right in front of my face ...







now i can't wait even more for my adapter to test the bluray SBS mkvs on my OptomaHD66


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## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* /forum/post/19643915
> 
> 
> WDTV Live, nor any other standalone media player I've heard of, can play 3D at full 1080p per eye. ISOs for regular 2D BDs are supported on some of the media players but the best they can support for Blu-ray 3D rips using the 1080 side-by-side 3D format which are always half resolution (there is no such thing as full resolution side-by-side in the 3DTV video formats currently defined by the HDMI 1.4a standard). Full resolution 3D requires the Frame Packing format and that is what is used on all Blu-ray 3D discs and thus any ISO for a Blu-ray 3D will be in the frame packing format and the media player would have to support HDMI 1.4 to output the video, but none currently have this capability. Note that it is possible to equip a HTPC with the appropriate hardware and software to play Blu-ray 3D ISO, but we will have to wait until at least the next generation of standalone media players to get the capability.



Corrrection.

3D Blu-Ray full HD stereoscopic content is stored as 2D + Delta. And that is two files where the left eye steam is in even numbered file and the delta is in odd numbered. Example: 0000.m2ts is base 0001.m2ts is the Delta.


Frame packing you are referring to is the stereoscopic content layout which is part of HDMI 1.4a low level video transmission protocol and it only lives in HDMI 1.4 cable during transmission.


Mathew Orman


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## bfreshour

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* 
WDTV Live, nor any other standalone media player I've heard of, can play 3D at full 1080p per eye. ISOs for regular 2D BDs are supported on some of the media players but the best they can support for Blu-ray 3D rips using the 1080 side-by-side 3D format which are always half resolution (there is no such thing as full resolution side-by-side in the 3DTV video formats currently defined by the HDMI 1.4a standard). Full resolution 3D requires the Frame Packing format and that is what is used on all Blu-ray 3D discs and thus any ISO for a Blu-ray 3D will be in the frame packing format and the media player would have to support HDMI 1.4 to output the video, but none currently have this capability. Note that it is possible to equip a HTPC with the appropriate hardware and software to play Blu-ray 3D ISO, but we will have to wait until at least the next generation of standalone media players to get the capability.
How can the PS3 play 3D Bluray with only HDMI 1.3? I have a pretty powerful computer with crossfire 5770s, but I'm guessing I can't use them to display full HD 3D as theres no way to get the content to my TV from my PC, I'd need one of the new 6000 series ATI cards. Is that correct?


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## perfectdark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bfreshour* /forum/post/19667227
> 
> 
> How can the PS3 play 3D Bluray with only HDMI 1.3? I have a pretty powerful computer with crossfire 5770s, but I'm guessing I can't use them to display full HD 3D as theres no way to get the content to my TV from my PC, I'd need one of the new 6000 series ATI cards. Is that correct?



3D over 1.3 HDSMI see below and it will explain



Remember how I've been telling you not to buy a new Blu-ray player, to wait until new 3D Blu-ray players with HDMI 1.4 connectors become available?


Well, forget all that.


The HDMI Licensing Group has solved at least the Blu-ray side of the 3D problem. All devices with HDMI 1.3 and an upgrade connection method Blu-ray Live decks (including PS3), satellite receivers and cable set-top boxes can be upgraded to output 3D, says Steve Venuti, president of the Group.


However, as with all things, there's a catch. Keep reading to see what you'll be giving up.


Unfortunately, you'll still need a new HDMI 1.4-enabled 3D HDTV to see the 3D effect. It's necessary because those HDTVs have dual-scanning capabilities: They can display near-simultaneous frames, one for each eye, to create the 3D illusion. Current HDTVs are only single-scan.


And you won't get full 1080p 3D via an upgraded HDMI 1.3 box, either just half or quarter resolution, depending on the source. HDMI 1.3 isn't powerful enough to stream near-simultaneous 1080p frames. From a full 1080p source such as Blu-ray or a satellite receiver, you'll instead get dual 1080i images to create 3D; from a cable box, you'll get dual 540i images. I've been told the difference between full 1080p 3D and 540i 3D is essentially the difference between Blu-ray and DVD, which for most people is not that big of a difference. I still think you'll want at least a 65-inch 3D HDTV, though, to really get an immersive 3D experience.


If you've got a non-BD Live player, you're SOL. But for everyone who just bought a Blu-ray Live player, breathe easier you just saved yourself around $400 and you're halfway to viewing Avatar at home next spring.

http://dvice.com/archives/2009/12/no...ray.php#source


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## walford

All new2010 3D-Blu-ray players have HDMI 1.4 output connectors.

You do not need a HDMI 1.4 output connector to send HDMI 1.4a 3D contennt as evidenced by the Cable and Satellite STBs and by the PS3 which can play 3D-Blu ray disks and output full 1080p per eye content.

There are 3D capable TVs such as the RP DLP 3D ready models which have HDMI 1.3 input connectors. The DLPs however only display 3D at 960x1080 per eye but do an excellent job of it

You need a 3D Blu-ray player to play the Avatar 3D Blu-ray disk in 3D.

Cable and Satellite cable supplies either 1/2 1080i 3D SbS format or in 1/2 R 720p in 3D TnB format.

You can also play 3D-Blue-ray disk on a PC and output the content to a 3D capable displays even at full 1080p per eye depending on the PC configuration.


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## bfreshour




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19668643
> 
> 
> All 3D-Blu-ray players have HDMI 1.4 output connectors.
> 
> You do not need a HDMI 1.4 output connector to send HDMI 1.4a 3D contennt as evidenced by the Cable and Satellite STBs and by the PS3 which can play 3D-Blu ray disks and output full 1080p per eye content.
> 
> There are 3D capable TVs such as the RP DLP 3D ready models which have HDMI 1.3 input connectors. The DLPs however only display 3D at 960x1080 per eye but do an excellent job of it
> 
> You need a 3D Blu-ray player to play the Avatar 3D Blu-ray disk in 3D.
> 
> Cable and Satellite cable supplies either 1/2 1080i 3D SbS format or in 1/2 R 720p in 3D TnB format.
> 
> You can also play 3D-Blue-ray disk on a PC and output the content to a 3D capable displays even at full 1080p per eye depending on the PC configuration.



You completely contradict the post before you that says HDMI 1.3 does NOT have enough bandwidth to display full HD 1080P 3D. It's half res 1080i. You said Cable, Satellite STBs and the PS3 can play 3D Bluray disks and output full 1080P per eye... That is not correct based on everything I've read...


Here's my question. I just bought a LG 60PX950 which is 60" 3D TV. It's immersive enough, and looks pretty damn good, but I've only been able to watch 1080i SBS content (obviously). I have a PS3 (again HDMI 1.4) and I have a PC close enough to run HDMI to it, but it only has ATI 5770's (two) in it, but they will also be only 1080i 3D as they are HDMI 1.3.


So my only option to run Full HD 1080P 3D is to buy a NEW 3D Bluray player with HDMI 1.4 either stand alone, or one for my PC, and if I go PC route, I also need a new video card, ATI 6000 model.


Is that correct?


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## walford

Yes I know I contaeicted them because they were wrong.

HDMI 1.3 and and HDMI 1.4 both have the same maximum bandwidth.

I did not state that cable and satellite can have HD content at 1080p per eye bacause I know that they cannoct.


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## bfreshour




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19669591
> 
> 
> Yes I know I contaeicted them because they were wrong.
> 
> HDMI 1.3 and and HDMI 1.4 both support the same maximum bandwidth.
> 
> I did not state that cable and satellite can save HD content at 1080p per eye bacause I now that they cannoct.



Can you please provide some reference to your information on the bandwidth of HDMI 1.3 and full HD 1080P SBS content?


Nevermind: I found some references to what you are talking about. There seems to be a lot of miscommunication. Sorry.


So basically, I could display full 1080p per eye from my PS3 or from my PC? How can I do it from my PC? 3D Blurary drive and output to my TV via HDMI?


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## almostinsane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19668643
> 
> 
> All 3D-Blu-ray players have HDMI 1.4 output connectors.



Not true, the Sony players are HDMI 1.3.


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## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *almostinsane* /forum/post/19670352
> 
> 
> Not true, the Sony players are HDMI 1.3.



Is that true of all of them or is it only true of the one or two Sony 2009 model players for which Sony has provied new firmware?


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## Ron Jones

Several points need to be made:


Some standalone Blu-ray players introduced in the first half of 2010 used HDMI chips that were desigined to support the essential HDMI 1.4 functions for 3D but these chips could only be officially called HDMI 1.3 because either the HDMI 1.4 certification test requirements were not completed before these chips were produced or because that chip did not implement every feature required by the HDMI 1.4 spec. but may in fact have the essential subset of functions requried to support Blu-ray 3D.


While the PS3 uses HDMI 1.3 chips, Sony was able to reduce the functions being performed by these chips to the minimum and to implement software emulation of the essential HDMI 1.4 functions within the PS3's cell processor. This solution does not work for standalone players since they do not have a powerful general purpose processor to run such emuation of HDMI 1.4 functions. Even in the case of the PS3 some functions are still not supported when playing 3D discs (i.e., no support for 3D Java menu nor HD audio supported with Blu-ray 3D discs).


Directv and cable boxes use the half resolution side-by-side (or top/bottom) format which is referred to as a frame compatible format in that it is essentially a standard 1080i or 1080p HD video frame that happens to contain two side my side images. The HDMI chips in these boxes do not see it as any different than any other 1080i (or 1080p) video. What is lacking with this approach, in addition to the reduced resolution, is the support for the extended information only avaible with version 1.4 for the HDMI handshake that would allow these satellite or cable boxes to fully support exchanging the 3D capabilities with the connected 3DTVs. They use work arounds using only the more limited HDMI 1.3 information that generally works but there can be issues between certain satellite/cable boxes and certain 3DTVs and there can be additional compatibility issues when placing a AVR between the source and 3DTV. This is viewed by many as an interim solution until a new generation of HDMI 1.4a enabled cable and satellite boxes are available, in another year or two.


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## walford

Ron,

That is an excellent writeup.


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## HTFAN007

I am a little confused with connectors.

Are there any physical differences in HDMI 1.3 and the HDMI 1.4a connectors?


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## walford

The folloing link contains all of differences between HDMI protocols and physical connectors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI 


Since HDMI1.4 protocols and connectors are supersets of HDMI 1.3, far more important then the connectors, are the actual transmittrer and/or receiver chips used in the sender or receiver systems.


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## orion2323




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bfreshour* /forum/post/19669397
> 
> 
> You completely contradict the post before you that says HDMI 1.3 does NOT have enough bandwidth to display full HD 1080P 3D. It's half res 1080i. You said Cable, Satellite STBs and the PS3 can play 3D Bluray disks and output full 1080P per eye... That is not correct based on everything I've read...
> 
> 
> Here's my question. I just bought a LG 60PX950 which is 60" 3D TV. It's immersive enough, and looks pretty damn good, but I've only been able to watch 1080i SBS content (obviously). I have a PS3 (again HDMI 1.4) and I have a PC close enough to run HDMI to it, but it only has ATI 5770's (two) in it, but they will also be only 1080i 3D as they are HDMI 1.3.
> 
> 
> So my only option to run Full HD 1080P 3D is to buy a NEW 3D Bluray player with HDMI 1.4 either stand alone, or one for my PC, and if I go PC route, I also need a new video card, ATI 6000 model.
> 
> 
> Is that correct?



The HD 5850 will do the trick. ATI says on their website, that only the newer 68xx series can do 3D ISO, but the 5850 will do just fine!


----------



## BioSehnsucht

Has anyone gotten the full SbS (3840x1080) Tron Legacy trailer to open in Stereoscopic player? It gives me an error about not being able to connect all of the filters' outputs. It opens in Media Player Classic but that doesn't do me any good in getting it output in checkerboard mode. I could squeeze it horizontally and make it Half SbS effectively and let my 3DA-1 convert but that's no fun.


----------



## Travis8214

Not sure if this has been answered already or if this is the proper place, but how do you make 1 half-SBS file from two left/right files? The only thing I can think of right now is 3DBD Buster but I don't feel like shelling out ~$50.


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Travis8214* /forum/post/19713200
> 
> 
> Not sure if this has been answered already or if this is the proper place, but how do you make 1 half-SBS file from two left/right files? The only thing I can think of right now is 3DBD Buster but I don't feel like shelling out ~$50.



You can download free 30 day trial of Adobe Premiere and Encore

with those you can create SbS anamorphic frame compatible versions and burn it into new Blu-ray DB or just play it from HD.


Mathew Orman


----------



## Travis8214

Quote:

Originally Posted by *icester* 
You can download free 30 day trial of Adobe Premiere and Encore

with those you can create SbS anamorphic frame compatible versions and burn it into new Blu-ray DB or just play it from HD.


Mathew Orman
What formats does Adobe Premiere render to? I'm using a PS3 to play the files, and I don't have a BD burner, so I'd need any of these. 


.MKV works fine as well as that usually converts swimmingly in MKV2VOB


----------



## icester

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Travis8214* 
What formats does Adobe Premiere render to? I'm using a PS3 to play the files, and I don't have a BD burner, so I'd need any of these. 


.MKV works fine as well as that usually converts swimmingly in MKV2VOB
PS3 plays regular Blu-ray so you could use the m2ts format

from Encore.


Mathew Orman


----------



## desportista

Great thread and site!!

Congratulations!!


I've a .mkv file half sbs.

Can I play it in my PC only having ATI Radeon HD4800 and a Smasung monitor Syncmaster 931BW?

If not, do I have to buy Nvidia 3D Vision (or similar) and a monitor with 120Hz "3D ready" (like Samsung 2233RZ or Asus) or my monitor will do?

To play the same file on 3D TV I'll need to buy a "simple" media player that plays .mkv and change settings on TV to view side by side, right?


----------



## twobeer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Charlie_P* /forum/post/19466711
> 
> 
> Thanks so much. That is great information.
> 
> 
> So about full SBS, those files can't be played back on a 3d TV because there is not enough resolution? Maybe if a PC was playing the file on the TV but then it would be down sampled to the TV resolution anyway. (?)



Full SBS does not make much sense at all.


The point with SBS formats is to be able to be backwards compatible with older std. signals used before 3D came along (like 720p, 1080i/p) etc. and be able to show 3D while making the format backwards compatible with old equipment.


going 3840x1080 to get full SBS HD would not make any sense really as the old equipment would have to be changed anyway, so the frampacking format could as well be used if hadrware has to be changed anyway.


/T


----------



## BlackShark

It may not make much sense for you, but for me it's the best format that I can use at the moment on my 3D display. Fullres SBS has a lot of purpose outside of the current limited HDTVs.

This format has been used for years by computer users with computer based 3D displays that have the software and hardware designed to benefit from these files.


Maybe you meant MPEG4-MVC, the format BluRay 3D uses. It's the best format currently available for 3D content since it is the most efficient and provides the best quality/size ratio.

The main problem is that there are no free MVC encoders so in the mean time if you have full res content that you want to save,store or broadcast through computers, you have two options : separate files or Side by side full resolution... until the x264 team implements MVC.


Be careful when using the word frame packing.

Frame packing is a very generic term to mean there are hidden frames within a standard frame. A technique used to bypass certain limitations of certain software or hardware. Many techniques for storing 3D content can be called "frame packing", including side by side.


"The" frame packing format is the hdmi transmission format, it does not exist before or after the hdmi cable. It is basically a Full-resolution vertically stacked SBS stereo image with blanking in between. Once the data reaches it's destination, the packed frame is disassembled and transformed into whatever format the display uses internally.


----------



## desportista




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ron Jones* /forum/post/19643915
> 
> 
> WDTV Live, nor any other standalone media player I've heard of, can play 3D at full 1080p per eye. ISOs for regular 2D BDs are supported on some of the media players but the best they can support for Blu-ray 3D rips using the 1080 side-by-side 3D format which are always half resolution (there is no such thing as full resolution side-by-side in the 3DTV video formats currently defined by the HDMI 1.4a standard). Full resolution 3D requires the Frame Packing format and that is what is used on all Blu-ray 3D discs and thus any ISO for a Blu-ray 3D will be in the frame packing format and the media player would have to support HDMI 1.4 to output the video, but none currently have this capability. Note that it is possible to equip a HTPC with the appropriate hardware and software to play Blu-ray 3D ISO, but we will have to wait until at least the next generation of standalone media players to get the capability.



But WDTV "reads" a MKV half sbs file, right?

Do I need any special features (upgrade codecs or something else) in my PC to read the same file?


----------



## perfectdark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desportista* /forum/post/19753814
> 
> 
> But WDTV "reads" a MKV half sbs file, right?
> 
> Do I need any special features (upgrade codecs or something else) in my PC to read the same file?



yes it does

you can download a SBS mkv right now and play it with your WDTV (i do to make sure they work) on your non-3D display you will see the movie on the left and right (hence SBS) same as Rogers Cable 3DTV preview channel 900

on a 3D TV it will be blurred obvisouly until the glasses are on


----------



## desportista




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *perfectdark* /forum/post/19753836
> 
> 
> yes it does
> 
> you can download a SBS mkv right now and play it with your WDTV (i do to make sure they work) on your non-3D display you will see the movie on the left and right (hence SBS) same as Rogers Cable 3DTV preview channel 900
> 
> on a 3D TV it will be blurred obvisouly until the glasses are on



Thanks for the prompt reply.


Why can I play (at all) the same file on my PC with PowerDVD 10 Ultra or any other SW?

I think I ought to see, at least, "left and right (hence SBS)" like you said, right?


----------



## perfectdark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desportista* /forum/post/19753965
> 
> 
> Thanks for the prompt reply.
> 
> 
> Why can I play (at all) the same file on my PC with PowerDVD 10 Ultra or any other SW?
> 
> I think I ought to see, at least, "left and right (hence SBS)" like you said, right?



On the PC i have no idea (since i dont use my PC i only use my WDTV) But i tried opening a mkv SBS with VLC media player and it plays SBS .... other than that i have no idea since i dont and wont be using the PC to view 3D content... maybe another member using a HTPC setup can answer your question


----------



## desportista




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *perfectdark* /forum/post/19753981
> 
> 
> On the PC i have no idea (since i dont use my PC i only use my WDTV) But i tried opening a mkv SBS with VLC media player and it plays SBS .... other than that i have no idea since i dont and wont be using the PC to view 3D content... maybe another member using a HTPC setup can answer your question



Unfortunetly, I don't have a HTPC (nor a 3D TV), just a normal PC (Quad Core) with no special graphics (ATI HD4800)... and I am not an expert.

I began just now giving the first step "towards" 3D, but I would like to start from "basics", like the mkv half sbs file, cause last month I discovered that 3D Blu Ray (ISO) movies can only be played by 3D players or by a "powerful" HTPC, connected to 3D TV (very expensive). The other way ($400), which I'm "interested in", is to play the 3D BD on PC with PowerDVD 10 Ultra (or ArcSoft 3D), but even this requires a "special" 3D display (like Samsung 2233RZ) and a 3D Vision kit.


I think I'm right!?


P.S.: Great site!!


----------



## BlackShark

Side by side files are "frame compatible" formats.

This means that in order to play them the software does not need to know it's 3D content.

Technically, half SBS is just like any standard 1080p 2D video out there, and full res SBS is just a 3840x1080 2D video (no difference, just bigger resolution). It only at the very end in the display menus that you manually have to tell the display it is receiving a side by side 3D video and the TV transforms the side by side picture into a 3D picture.

Because of this frame compatibility, Half SBS can be read on any device, desktop PC, laptop, HTPC, BluRay player, HVR, DTV/cable/satellite decoder, etc... anything.


BluRay 3D is more complicated. The easiest way to make it work is to use a graphics card that can ouput the special 3D formats introduced in hdmi 1.4. (you'll need an hdmi 1.4 card, or one of the hdmi1.3 cards that can still output this format thanks to a driver update).

However there are some loophopes. PowerDVD supports interlaced 3D output (for Zalman interlaced 3D displays), yet some 3DTVs have compatibility modes for interlaced 3D too, so with the right TV, you could use any raphics card you want.


The samsung 2233RZ is not an hdmi 1.4 compatible display, it's a Nvidia 3D vision ready display, it only works with nvidia 3D vision glasses and nvidia 3D vision compatible software and hardware. There is no way around it.


----------



## desportista




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *perfectdark* /forum/post/19753836
> 
> 
> yes it does
> 
> you can download a SBS mkv right now and play it with your WDTV (i do to make sure they work) on your non-3D display you will see the movie on the left and right (hence SBS) same as Rogers Cable 3DTV preview channel 900
> 
> on a 3D TV it will be blurred obvisouly until the glasses are on



I already manage to play the MKV SBS file, just by upgrading VLC.

Now, I "lack" the 3D vision kit and the 3D display/monitor, right?


----------



## BlackShark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desportista* /forum/post/19756254
> 
> 
> I already manage to play the MKV SBS file, just by upgrading VLC.
> 
> Now, I "lack" the 3D vision kit and the 3D display/monitor, right?



The 3D vision system requires to use 3D vision compatible software. It does not work with VLC.


3D vision comes with a special video player, a specially licensed version of Peter Wimmer's Stereoscopic player. If you want to test your codecs before you buy you 3D vision kit, go grab the trial version of the video player at www.3dtv.at 

If you can get a picture in this sofware, you'll be able to read your file in the one that comes with 3D vision.


----------



## desportista




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark* /forum/post/19756825
> 
> 
> The 3D vision system requires to use 3D vision compatible software. It does not work with VLC.
> 
> 
> 3D vision comes with a special video player, a specially licensed version of Peter Wimmer's Stereoscopic player. If you want to test your codecs before you buy you 3D vision kit, go grab the trial version of the video player at www.3dtv.at
> 
> If you can get a picture in this sofware, you'll be able to read your file in the one that comes with 3D vision.



I already tested this SW from www.3dtv.at and it seems to me that it can't play .MKV SBS file, but play AVI an d other formats (wmv, mp4, m1v,m2ts...)I don't know why.


I'm reaching the conclusion that or I'll make it with PowerDVD 10 Ultra (or ARCSoft 3D fetaures) and 3D vision kit plus a 3D monitor ready (120Hz, etc...), or I'll not make it at all; only with a 3D TV







"receiving" from a media player (like WDTV)...


----------



## desportista

Well... I did it and manage to put Stereoscopic player "reading" the MKV SBS file.

Supose now I really need 3D vision kit or just the glasses or upgrade my graphics or all of it?


So many doubts...


----------



## BlackShark

3D vision is a proprietary system. It won't work on anything that isn't approved by nvidia.

See the compatibility list at nvidia's website. If your graphics card or your screen isn't on the list, you'll have to change it. And it will never ever work with a media player like wdtv, you have to use a PC.


----------



## desportista

Concerning 3D, I still don't see any advantage in having a powerfull HTPC (hundreds of dollars)- except for storage ability - because it don´t avoid the purchase of a 3D TV, which is also very expensive; HTPC could be more versatile then 3D BD stand alone dedicate palyer, but is much more expensive and "doesn't" do the job (for 3D).


I know that 3D is in his primary steps, but there's already a "boom" of 3D BD and I would like to begin to enjoy the experience in my PC, before investing thousand of dollars in stand alone 3D player and a 3D TV (46" or plus).


----------



## poppabk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *desportista* /forum/post/19754139
> 
> 
> Unfortunetly, I don't have a HTPC (nor a 3D TV), just a normal PC (Quad Core) with no special graphics (ATI HD4800)... and I am not an expert.
> 
> I began just now giving the first step "towards" 3D, but I would like to start from "basics", like the mkv half sbs file, cause last month I discovered that 3D Blu Ray (ISO) movies can only be played by 3D players or by a "powerful" HTPC, connected to 3D TV (very expensive). The other way ($400), which I'm "interested in", is to play the 3D BD on PC with PowerDVD 10 Ultra (or ArcSoft 3D), but even this requires a "special" 3D display (like Samsung 2233RZ) and a 3D Vision kit.
> 
> 
> I think I'm right!?
> 
> 
> P.S.: Great site!!



You will need a 3D compatible display to view 3D content, unless you want to go the red green glasses route (you don't). There are no massive requirements for the PC side though, if you can play a 1080p video over HDMI then you can play SBS 3D content, on a compatible 3D display. You can pick up a HDMI 1.4 compatible graphics card for $50-70 (I have a GT430), if you want to be able to watch 3D blurays on your PC, but a HDMI 1.4 compatible card is not required for SBS content. You can also play PC games in 3D through SBS at the moment using iz3d or tridef drivers.


Other than the display and maybe a DVI to HDMI converter you already have everything you need to get started with 3D, but a new display with glasses is a must.


----------



## walford

An HDMI 1.4 output chip is not requied to send HDMI 1.4a 3D formats not even the packed double frame format from a 3D BR disk Currently the PS3 can send this format without any problem to HDMI 1.4 capable 3D TV using the HDMI 1.3 output chip in the PS3.


----------



## poppabk




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford* /forum/post/19761143
> 
> 
> An HDMI 1.4 output chip is not requied to send HDMI 1.4a 3D formats not even the packed double frame format from a 3D BR disk Currently the PS3 can send this format without any problem to HDMI 1.4 capable 3D TV using the HDMI 1.3 output chip in the PS3.



Do any of the software solutions support this on PC?


----------



## walford

Nvidia 3 Vision does read then notes at the bottom of the following link closly:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-visi...uirements.html 


I don't know about ATI support options.


----------



## staindrocks

I've been reading through many threads trying to get a better understanding of 3D, including this one, but there's so much conflicting info that i feel just as lost as when i started. I just ordered everything i thought i needed to enjoy HD 3D movies in my HT, but now i'm unsure about what types of 3D content i'll successfully be able to play.


Here's what i ordered:

Acer 5360

Nvidia 3D Glasses Kit w/Emitter

EVGA GeForce GT 430 Video Card


So i guess my first question is can i play 3D Bluray via one of the software BD Players such as Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 or Arcsoft's player. If so, which SW player works best or has the fewest problems?


Second, will i be able to play "half sbs" content? Will i be able to play "full sbs"/"L/R 1080p" content. What player do i use and what else do i need to do to get playback set up and working for these kind of files?


Sorry for so many questions, but like i said, my stuff will be here tomorrow or Friday and i was hoping that i would know how to get everything up and running as soon i recieved my equipment. But now i'm starting to panic because i'm still pretty much clueless about the what and how of 3D pertaining to the equipment i bought. I'm hoping someone can help.


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *staindrocks* /forum/post/19818524
> 
> 
> I've been reading through many threads trying to get a better understanding of 3D, including this one, but there's so much conflicting info that i feel just as lost as when i started. I just ordered everything i thought i needed to enjoy HD 3D movies in my HT, but now i'm unsure about what types of 3D content i'll successfully be able to play.
> 
> 
> Here's what i ordered:
> 
> Acer 5360
> 
> Nvidia 3D Glasses Kit w/Emitter
> 
> EVGA GeForce GT 430 Video Card
> 
> 
> So i guess my first question is can i play 3D Bluray via one of the software BD Players such as Cyberlink PowerDVD 10 or Arcsoft's player. If so, which SW player works best or has the fewest problems?
> 
> 
> Second, will i be able to play "half sbs" content? Will i be able to play "full sbs"/"L/R 1080p" content. What player do i use and what else do i need to do to get playback set up and working for these kind of files?
> 
> 
> Sorry for so many questions, but like i said, my stuff will be here tomorrow or Friday and i was hoping that i would know how to get everything up and running as soon i recieved my equipment. But now i'm starting to panic because i'm still pretty much clueless about the what and how of 3D pertaining to the equipment i bought. I'm hoping someone can help.



Yes,

you will be able to play every 3D content that is available now on 3D BDs and CDs, DVDs and what you can download.

Power DVD 10 is what I have and recommend.

I also have TMT 3 but it fails on some SbS movies.


Mathew Orman


----------



## staindrocks

Thanks a lot for your reply, icester...that's quite a relief to know. Do you have a HTPC? I have some 3D via HTPC related questions if you can help with that.


I'm actually building my first HTPC(already have all components to install), which will consist of an _AMD Phenom II X3 740 BE w/4GB RAM_ along with the aforementioned _GT430 Video Card_. Should that be sufficient to handle playback for all of the different kinds of 3D content/files? What about codecs and/or codec packs...i'll be installing a brand new OS, so will i need to install any additional codec packs?


As far as my OS goes, i think i'm going to go with Windows 7(not sure which edition...any recommendations?), and i would like to try XMBC as my HTPC frontend. I'm not overly familiar with this, either...do you know if PowerDVD 10 would integrate into XMBC ok, as well as any other players i might need to use?


----------



## Waltm

AVS has a forum dedicated to HTPC with a lot of great info. I don't follow the general forum, since I run Linux / MythTV for my HTPC, so I don't know if they have been working with the 3D side of things, but they should be able to answer any questions on getting XBMC to work with external players.

HTPC Forum


----------



## staindrocks

Thanks Waltm, i'll try my luck over there in the HTPC forums. That's the hard thing for me, is finding where i can ask questions that involve building a 3D HTPC w/XMBC frontend running Nvidia 3D Vision displayed by an Acer 5360 PJ. There are so many different elements to it, and questions i have about each of them as well as integrating them that i'm unsure about where i should ask for help. But next stop...HTPC forums!


Thanks again for answering my 3D specific questions here.

*EDIT*

Duh...this might be a good place to start: FAQ for the 3D HTPC 

I was so worried and consumed with the 3D part of it, i never thought about checking the HTPC forums here at avsforums...so thanks again Waltm!


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *staindrocks* /forum/post/19819260
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for your reply, icester...that's quite a relief to know. Do you have a HTPC? I have some 3D via HTPC related questions if you can help with that.
> 
> 
> I'm actually building my first HTPC(already have all components to install), which will consist of an _AMD Phenom II X3 740 BE w/4GB RAM_ along with the aforementioned _GT430 Video Card_. Should that be sufficient to handle playback for all of the different kinds of 3D content/files? What about codecs and/or codec packs...i'll be installing a brand new OS, so will i need to install any additional codec packs?
> 
> 
> As far as my OS goes, i think i'm going to go with Windows 7(not sure which edition...any recommendations?), and i would like to try XMBC as my HTPC frontend. I'm not overly familiar with this, either...do you know if PowerDVD 10 would integrate into XMBC ok, as well as any other players i might need to use?



Yes,

it works just fine with XMBC 10 and the 3D Vision's quad buffer turns on ready for stereoscopic content.

As soon as someone comes up with stereoscopic plug-in it should a very attractive.

I've heard that Peter Wimmer (the author of the Stereoscopic Player) is working on stereoscopic plug-in for XMBC.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=77666 


I recommend Windows 7 64 Bit PRO.

You do not need to install any codecs as all the latest and hardware accelerated ones are built-in.


Mathew Orman


----------



## acesup_22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BlackShark* /forum/post/19487074
> 
> 
> This is because the video player alone can't output to this format.
> 
> 
> You have to use the "hdmi1.4-like" features of your graphics card.
> 
> If your graphics card is an Nvidia, you have to use Nvidia 3DTV play
> 
> If your graphics card is an ATi/AMD, you have to use AMD HD3D



Can my ATI 2600xt use this software or any software to play 3d


----------



## acesup_22

subscribed


----------



## staindrocks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *icester* /forum/post/19824151
> 
> 
> Yes,
> 
> it works just fine with XMBC 10 and the 3D Vision's quad buffer turns on ready for stereoscopic content.
> 
> As soon as someone comes up with stereoscopic plug-in it should a very attractive.
> 
> I've heard that Peter Wimmer (the author of the Stereoscopic Player) is working on stereoscopic plug-in for XMBC.
> 
> http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=77666
> 
> 
> I recommend Windows 7 64 Bit PRO.
> 
> You do not need to install any codecs as all the latest and hardware accelerated ones are built-in.
> 
> 
> Mathew Orman



Thanks once again for your informative post, icester! It helps me tremendously to get straight up yes or no answers to help make sense of the 3+ weeks worth of reading i've been doing. Your help is greatly appreciated!


I'm going to do the actual build of my HTPC tonight, so hopefully i'll be able to get everything up and running by tomorrow sometime. Would you mind if i PM'd you if i run into any problems...being my first pc build, OS install, HTPC, and 3D venture, i'm a little apprehensive and nervous about running into something i don't understand.


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *staindrocks* /forum/post/19830750
> 
> 
> Thanks once again for your informative post, icester! It helps me tremendously to get straight up yes or no answers to help make sense of the 3+ weeks worth of reading i've been doing. Your help is greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> I'm going to do the actual build of my HTPC tonight, so hopefully i'll be able to get everything up and running by tomorrow sometime. Would you mind if i PM'd you if i run into any problems...being my first pc build, OS install, HTPC, and 3D venture, i'm a little apprehensive and nervous about running into something i don't understand.



You welcome.

My email is [email protected] and SKYPE is icesterusa


Mathew Orman


----------



## ComputerCowboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *poppabk* /forum/post/19761278
> 
> 
> Do any of the software solutions support this on PC?



you can user Pantarheon AVISynth Toolbox to make the frame packed HDMI 1.4 output

http://www.pantarheon.org/AviSynth3DToolbox/


----------



## BlackShark

The problem is not making a fake frame packing (which is completely useless by the way) : the problem is outputting it to the TV.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *acesup_22* /forum/post/19827320
> 
> 
> Can my ATI 2600xt use this software or any software to play 3d



With your graphics card, yes you can output 3D (anything can output 3D) but you can't output the full resolution.

You will have to use one of the half resolution modes (side by side or checkerboard if the TV supports it)


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ComputerCowboy* /forum/post/20106469
> 
> 
> you can user Pantarheon AVISynth Toolbox to make the frame packed HDMI 1.4 output
> 
> http://www.pantarheon.org/AviSynth3DToolbox/



Not very useful to mimic frame layout based on HDMI 1.4a signal transmission protocol.

It is all done by firmware on Nvidia's graphics card and all what is required is two buffers containing left and right images.


See nVidia's DirectX SDK on how to output stereoscopic content.


Mathew Orman


----------



## Yif3ng

Hi guys,


New to the forum but was doing some research regarding 3D playback.

I have a LG LX9500 3D TV and an AC Ryan Playon! HD mini 2.

Recently got hold of them. Was wondering am I able to playback a 3D Blu-ray iso using these equipments? Very confused by the half sbs and full sbs discussion. Hope someone can give me some guidance. Thanks!


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yif3ng* /forum/post/20120024
> 
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> New to the forum but was doing some research regarding 3D playback.
> 
> I have a LG LX9500 3D TV and an AC Ryan Playon! HD mini 2.
> 
> Recently got hold of them. Was wondering am I able to playback a 3D Blu-ray iso using these equipments? Very confused by the half sbs and full sbs discussion. Hope someone can give me some guidance. Thanks!



It does not support BD 3D ISO but you can make BD ISO with frame compatible 3D content in HD resolution and play it using your 3D TV with manual selection of 3D modes.



Mathew Orman


----------



## Yif3ng

So does that means I have to convert my iso file using some program to allow my ac ryan to be able to play that on my tv? If so is there any free ware that is able to do so?


----------



## icester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yif3ng* /forum/post/20120174
> 
> 
> So does that means I have to convert my iso file using some program to allow my ac ryan to be able to play that on my tv? If so is there any free ware that is able to do so?



Yes,

there are two, one is free the other cost some.


Check this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1304107 


Mathew Orman


----------



## arttext

I can use iZ3d MPCplayer and driver to play a half-sbs.mkv --> anaglyph. When I do the same thing in Powerdvd 10X it does the same trick, only it doesn't merge left and right, so I see two small screens, indeed, side by side.


Any thoughts?


----------



## Timmy Guevara

yeah its an old thread i know but i just want to see if i get it,


1.both half and full sbs, are still inferior to the 3d bluray standard

2.you can play all 3d sbs(half or full) mkv's on any media player(with at least hdmi 1.3) that supports hd mkv playback on a 3d tv

3. 3d Bluray standard and 3d bluray iso require hdmi 1.4??

4. Hdmi 1.3 and 1.4 have the same bandwidth (10.2GB)??


----------



## Z0p

I'll try to answer these... someone please correct me if I'm wrong:


1. Yes. See #2.

2. So far I've found that only VLC can play full sbs. But you may not see the full resolution anyway. All other players I have tried choke on full sbs.

3. Yes... but: Some 1.3 AVRs will pass full 3d. Mine won't so I use 2 outputs from my video card, one directly to the 3d tv (HDMI 1.4) and one to the HDMI 1.3 AVR. Some 3d DVD players have 2 HDMI outputs that will do the same thing.

4. Don't know, but I suspect they are the same.


----------



## GEP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Z0p* /forum/post/21104096
> 
> 
> I'll try to answer these... someone please correct me if I'm wrong:
> 
> 
> 1. Yes. See #2.
> 
> 2. So far I've found that only VLC can play full sbs. But you may not see the full resolution anyway. All other players I have tried choke on full sbs.
> 
> 3. Yes... but: Some 1.3 AVRs will pass full 3d. Mine won't so I use 2 outputs from my video card, one directly to the 3d tv (HDMI 1.4) and one to the HDMI 1.3 AVR. Some 3d DVD players have 2 HDMI outputs that will do the same thing.
> 
> 4. Don't know, but I suspect they are the same.



The difference in HDMI 1.3 and 1.4 for 3D is not a matter of bandwidth. It is a matter of TV and AVR EDID indicating if and what formats of 3D they support - these were not defind for the EDID until the 1.4 spec so a 1.3 TV or AVR cannot supply this EDID.


This will tell the source device which 3D formats it can send to the TV and through the AVR.


Blu-ray 3D players when trying to send the original HDMI format of frame packing, will require confirmation of support of that format before sending the signal.


In sending checkerboard and SbS Half (frame compatible) this confirmation may not be required (however some source devices will still required the confirmation).


AVRs that have a full pass-thru may allow the TVs EDID pass unaltered to the source device. This also means that the AVR may not process the audio when set to full pass-thur. AVRs that process the signal will change the EDID and if the AVR is not 3D compatible it will strip out this part of the TV EDID.


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## panakk87

Hey there,


Can someone tell me if the MSI 6450 pci card is enough to play fullhd 3d and bluray 3d iso files,and can where i can find these movies?

I ll check my pm if someone sent me..


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## sherpa25

Watched a couple of 1080p half-sbs videos through a WDTV Live, as I just got my Samsung PS51D550 and a pair of glasses. I'm wondering if 1080p full-sbs will work too? Or do I understand correctly (from back-reading) that the TV won't be able to handle the resolution (i.e. 1080p x 2) of full-sbs?


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## henly1234

rotfl made my day that.


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## Cathal Hawe

Does anybody know why when I play half SBS I can only see a clear picture if I close one eye, otherwise it looks slightly distorted. I am using my computer to play 3D on my Toshiba 42VL863. My GPU is XFX Rasdeon 7970 Black Edition. Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## Cathal Hawe

Does anybody know why when I play half SBS I can only see a clear picture if I close one eye, otherwise it looks slightly distorted. I am using my computer to play 3D on my Toshiba 42VL863. My GPU is XFX Rasdeon 7970 Black Edition. Any help would be greatly appreciated


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## mikehall

Can anyone tell me if I'd get any benefit of full SBS compared to half SBS on my tv? It's rear-projection DLP Mitsubishi WD-73640, which only supports half Full-HD in 3d (checkerboard).


----------



## walford




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikehall*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/70_70#post_22201248
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me if I'd get any benefit of full SBS compared to half SBS on my tv? It's rear-projection DLP Mitsubishi WD-73640, which only supports half Full-HD in 3d (checkerboard).


If your TV converts the full SBS content internally to Checkerboard then there is no benefit to using it.

If the TV displays it without converting it to checkerboard then you will get a benefit. Even though checkerboard accepts 1/2R input it does and excellent job of upscaling the contetn to full HD for each eye for display.


----------



## mikehall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *walford*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_22204204
> 
> 
> If your TV converts the full SBS content internally to Checkerboard then there is no benefit to using it.
> 
> If the TV displays it without converting it to checkerboard then you will get a benefit. Even though checkerboard accepts 1/2R input it does and excellent job of upscaling the contetn to full HD for each eye for display.



Here's what my tv's 3D menu says for the 640 is divided into features:

a. “Source Format” is the controls of the internal 3D adapter.

i. OFF is for no 3D even when you have a 3D signal.

ii. AUTOMATIC is for a 3D signal that matches the HDMI 1.4a standards for the Mandatory 3D signals.

iii. SIDE BY SIDE is for s-b-s 3D signals in 720p, 1080i, 1080p/24Hz, 1080p/30Hz, 1080p/60Hz signals that do not perfectly match the HDMI standards but are still available from cable boxes, satellite receivers and other sources. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.

iv. TOP/BOTTOM is for t-b signals in 720p or 1080p/24Hz that do not perfectly match the HDMI standards but may still be available from cable boxes, sat receivers, and other devices. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.

v. CHECKERBOARD is for 1080p/60Hz checkerboard 3D signals from external devices such as the external 3D adapter and several computer graphics cards/3D programs. This is a manual setting. Also any 3D signal that would trigger the AUTOMATIC will override this setting.

vi. 2D + DEPTH is to a 2D-to-3D converter of sorts. Gives standard 2D signals a 3D or depth quality and does require the glasses.


Here's what I could find about the resolution of 3d DLP's:

The 3D pixel count is half per eye in a DLP. But DLP is always 1920 x 1080 lines of resolution, 2D and 3D.


The checkerboard 3D format uses half of the pixels for the left eye view, and the remaining half of the pixels for the right eye view. Imagine a checkerboard. The red squares would contain the image for the left eye, and the black squares would contain the image for the right eye. Only the appropriate squares (red or black, not both) are flashed for each eye, leaving "holes" in the picture where the other colored squares would be.


Imagine a checkerboard with 1920 columns and 1080 rows. If you remove all the black squares or all the red squares, it still has the same amount of rows and columns. It's just that those rows and columns have holes at every other pixel location, as those pixels are used for the other eye's view.


Checkerboard maintains the 1920 x 1080 lines. It's not 1920 x 540 nor 960 x 1080. It is still 1920 x 1080. It just has 1920 x 1080 dotted lines. This is why it appears to be more than half resolution, and can compete with other formats.


Because each pixel is produced by a micro-mirror, and the mirrors change the image much faster than Plasma or LCD pixels, no ghosting occurs.


Given that information, would I be getting a better quality image with full SBS?

Also it sounds like full SBS takes more processing power than a regular 3D Blu-ray disc?


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## Vectraat

I got a simple question, which I'm having difficulty finding information on.


I have an active 3D TV.
http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/tv-video/tv/led/UN46D6420UFXZC 


So therefore I need to use active glasses.


Am I able to watch SBS 3D on an active TV with active glasses?


If not, what format do I need to watch on an active TV?


Can I use passive glasses on an active TV?


Thanks


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## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vectraat*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_22251134
> 
> 
> I got a simple question, which I'm having difficulty finding information on.
> 
> I have an active 3D TV.
> http://www.samsung.com/ca/consumer/tv-video/tv/led/UN46D6420UFXZC
> 
> So therefore I need to use active glasses.
> 
> Am I able to watch SBS 3D on an active TV with active glasses?
> 
> If not, what format do I need to watch on an active TV?
> 
> Can I use passive glasses on an active TV?
> 
> Thanks



Yes you can watch SBS 3D.

No you don't use passive glasses.

Just choose 3D on your remote. Different options for 3D are presented. Choose SBS. Your active glasses will work. You're good to go.


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## kahmeal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robut*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_22251151
> 
> 
> Yes you can watch SBS 3D.
> 
> No you don't use passive glasses.
> 
> Just choose 3D on your remote. Different options for 3D are presented. Choose SBS. Your active glasses will work. You're good to go.



I'm having an issue with the 3d effect working in one scene and then immediately going out of focus in another scene and then back in focus while still on the same, etc etc. This is using half-sbs rips and any player (stereoscopic, powerdvd, vlc, mpc-hc, xbmc) with the tv 3d setting at "side by side". Not sure if my glasses are defective or the emitter is messing up or what. Tried 3 different movies, all exhibit the same sporadic effect. Glasses are Xpand 102's. Any ideas? TV is a mitsu wd-73740.


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## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kahmeal*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_22251273
> 
> 
> I'm having an issue with the 3d effect working in one scene and then immediately going out of focus in another scene and then back in focus while still on the same, etc etc. This is using half-sbs rips and any player (stereoscopic, powerdvd, vlc, mpc-hc, xbmc) with the tv 3d setting at "side by side". Not sure if my glasses are defective or the emitter is messing up or what. Tried 3 different movies, all exhibit the same sporadic effect. Glasses are Xpand 102's. Any ideas? TV is a mitsu wd-73740.



I'm certainly not sure but maybe your display is set for zoom or wide fit to fill the screen in 2D. This can cut off some of the image. It maybe should be "screen fit" so the image fills the screen pixel for pixel with no cut off. Therefore when the side by side images are combined they align properly for a correct 3D image. The terms I use may not be the same for your display and again this is only a theory.


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## kahmeal

Turns out the "DLP Link" setting was off and I hadn't noticed. I assumed the "internal emitter" being set to on was what I needed but apparently not. The glasses were turning on and doing something but definitely not what they were supposed to. Once I turned DLP link on in the TV menu everything works great. The green tint and overall dimmer picture are a bit much with these glasses, think I might try the MonsterVision glasses everyone seems to love.


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## Robut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kahmeal*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_22253590
> 
> 
> Turns out the "DLP Link" setting was off and I hadn't noticed. I assumed the "internal emitter" being set to on was what I needed but apparently not. The glasses were turning on and doing something but definitely not what they were supposed to. Once I turned DLP link on in the TV menu everything works great. The green tint and overall dimmer picture are a bit much with these glasses, think I might try the MonsterVision glasses everyone seems to love.



I have two pair of Monsters and of the eight pair I own they are my favorite, go to glasses. Get them here http://www.monsterproducts.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5938&id=9132 . The Monster thread has additional discount codes.


Glad you solved your problem.


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## scrumi

I've read through this thread, and I think I understand enough about the tech, but my question is how do I play it?


I have a Samsung 55ES7500 LED TV which can display full HD 3d Content, and I also have some Full SBS 3840x1080 content in file form.


Now I know enough now to understand that I can't just shove 3840x1080 at the display and expect it to sort it out, I need some sort of player to properly decode that and push it down the HDMI cable in the correct form for the TV to understand/use.


I have gathered I can build a nice HTPC with the correct software and video card, and achieve this, but my question is:


1.) Does a nice preferably compact player exist to do this for me, either via DLNA from my storage solution or via direct attached like a USB drive. I currently have a WDTV live and don't have any complaints about it except not being able to solve this problem Would love to see something in that form factor and price point.


2.) Does anyone know anything out my TV, specifically since it can stream DLNA content, is there someway for it to process the full SBS content directly?


Thanks.


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## MANiaC3173

Hi! like scrumi i too have a similar build. i have the Samsung UE32ES6300 which says it supports FULL HD3D. What ive come to understand from reading all the posts is that concerning my build in order to get FULL SBS 3D all i need is a player? one that deals with all the technical stuff like encoding and such. Stereoscopic Player should handle this right? I have a GTX 560 ti as my GPU which is connected to my HDTV. The player will handle sending two 1080p images right?


A breakdown of my understanding:


1) Stereoscopic player

2) Load Full SBS file

3) Enable 3D > SBS

4) Glasses on

5) Enjoy


Correct? I shouldnt require any additional requirements right? I know theres no harm in testing but the thing is i dont have my glasses yet. they should arrive in a day or twos time.


Thanks!


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## MANiaC3173

*UPDATE*


Thanks guys! all works well! and i can use windows media player 12 which i prefer over all other players. Loving the experience! Great TV the ES6300


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## Snoodge

I made a post when I was having these issues and then fixed my own problem and made a mini-guide. It's for people wanting to set up an HTPC with a DLP-Link ready projector.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1454962/stereoscopic-player-v-about-to-lose-my-s#post_22917168


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## Sly3000

Hello people.


I'm a new member and very new to this 3D business.


I just spent hours and read through this 2 year old thread. As a newbie I'm still quite confused!


If I want to see a full quality 3D movie with either a PC or an HTPC, what type/types of 3D files will do the job? What type of hardware and software (media player) do you need?


Can somebody please sum up the whole conclusions up until now in a very short and easy tutorial for us newbies??


I mean from what I have understood HSBS or HOU only lose quality when they become 3D on the screen. How about full SBS? Does it exist?


Iso files seem a bit complicated with mounting into powerdvd, etc.


I would be very thankful if somebody could sum everything up in a very short and easy text for both PC and HTPC users.


Best regards...


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## rekbones

Your least expensive solution is to buy a standalone 3D Blu-Ray player and rent or buy Blu Ray's. ISO file will give you the best quality but as you stated a pain to mount etc. MKV sbs is the most common file you will encounter in down loads and do look very good (better than cable or VUDU etc). If you want to use a HTPC just buy a Blu Ray burner ($60 on sale) and get power DVD 10 or better or any other one of the players out there. This will keep you above the law and get the best picture available.


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## Sly3000

^^Thanks for your reply.


But how about full sbs and half sbs? What are the full sbs files usually called? Because I only find half sbs everywhere.


Moreover, I hear that even if you have half sbs (or half ou), you will receive half the total picture information with each eye, so in total with both eyes, you will still experience the 3D quality in full 1080p! So hsbs and full sbs don't really differ in quality! Is that true?


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## obveron

No it's not true. Half sbs has half the horizonal resoltuoin per eye compared to full sbs, or Blueray 3d. The amount of data is equivalent to a full 1080p 2d video stream, but it is half that of bluray 3d.


Full SbS has a resolution of 3840x1080p. No TV's will accept an input of that resolution. The SbS mode of your TV will only accept up to 1920x1080 half SbS input.

The only way to display a Full SbS file without loss in resolution is render and output as a 3D framepacked HDMI 1.4 signal.

Stereoscopic player can do this if you have a compatible video card.



In the end, in order to encode a Full SbS x264 from a bluray source without noticable quality loss you need a bitrate that is pretty much the same as the original bluray MVC stream.

If your desire is to keep the full resolution you are better off with 3d Bluray ISOs.

(when MVC gets the full x.264 treatment we may see something more useful for full resolution re-encodes with decent file sizes)


Half sbs (or half over under) is popular due to the reasonable bitrates and the fact that it is a widely compatible HDMI 1.3 format that needs no special player.


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## Sly3000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obveron*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_23161148
> 
> 
> No it's not true. Half sbs has half the horizonal resoltuoin per eye compared to full sbs, or Blueray 3d. The amount of data is equivalent to a full 1080p 2d video stream, but it is half that of bluray 3d.
> 
> 
> Full SbS has a resolution of 3840x1080p. No TV's will accept an input of that resolution. The SbS mode of your TV will only accept up to 1920x1080 half SbS input.
> 
> The only way to display a Full SbS file without loss in resolution is render and output as a 3D framepacked HDMI 1.4 signal.
> 
> Stereoscopic player can do this if you have a compatible video card.
> 
> 
> 
> In the end, in order to encode a Full SbS x264 from a bluray source without noticable quality loss you need a bitrate that is pretty much the same as the original bluray MVC stream.
> 
> If your desire is to keep the full resolution you are better off with 3d Bluray ISOs.
> 
> (when MVC gets the full x.264 treatment we may see something more useful for full resolution re-encodes with decent file sizes)
> 
> 
> Half sbs (or half over under) is popular due to the reasonable bitrates and the fact that it is a widely compatible HDMI 1.3 format that needs no special player.



Perfect. That's the information I needed. Thanks a lot for that.


However some questions remain. Sorry for being ignorant.


1. So you're saying if your HTPC has the right graphic card and an HDMI 1.4 format (with a compatible TV), you can install a Stereoscopic player and watch full sbs resolution films. Now the question is, do they exist? and I'm not talking about ISO files. Just big a$$ files with full resolution (rendered or what ever it's called).


2. So with H-sbs and H-ou files, you can just use ordinary VLC or windows media player and watch 3D films on your 3D TV?


3. If you burn an ISO file as an image on a bluray disc, you should be getting a full resolution 3D quality, right?


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## obveron

1. Yes, stereoscopic player will output framepacked 3D over HDMI 1.4. It will accept full SbS files. Yes those big Full SbS files do exist, but they are rare for the reasons I mentioned. If you mount a 3D bluray iso, sterescopic player can also play that at full resolution (minus bluray menus).


2. Yes H-SbS and H-OU play fine on any player (the player treats it as 2D). Put your TV in SbS or OU mode and voila.


3. Yes 3D bluaray ISOs can be burned, or they can be simply mounted (no burning necessary) and played with steorescopic player or powerdvd etc. Also many media boxes such as the Mede8er player will playback 3D bluray ISOs at full resolution via HDMI 1.4 framepacked 3D.


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## dougherty

I have been using stereographics in molecular viz research for 20 years. lately I am using hdmi 1.4 compliant sbs 1080p, which works for interactive viz and quicktime movie production. I can do it on my laptop, or put Qt files on usb drives and play on bluray media units like a sony s590.


Using switchresX I can create a 1920x2205 display porton my macbook pro and do 3d full res [email protected] frame packing on samsung and sony monitors, they automatically switch to stereo3d. But my epson 3010 projector rejects it, their tech support says the will not support this, but they support hdmi 1.4. the switchresx does not generate hdmi info frame packets, therefore not hdmi 1.4 compliant. epson will not budge on this, my assumption is that sony and samsung designs look at the unusual display size (being an odd number on vertical) and make a leap of faith it is 3d frame pack ignoring the fact their are no infoframe packets. I could ditch epson, I suspect sony projectors will play ball, but I have a sizeable investment in glasses, epson otherwise is good and affordable for an entry level system I would recommend for colleagues or mobile presentations involving QT files.


So I have been looking at other methods, such as burning bluray disks; until I realized a mvc 3d encoder would cost $7k-19k. I don't need mvc to guarantee I can play on monoscopic hdmi sinks. Actually I would prefer a USB approach to do it with mpeg and not waste time and money burning discs, but could go with SSD USB and produce uncompressed 1920x2205. A recent eyeopener involving one QT file played on a mac pro, macbook pro, and a dell laptop resulted in three different failures, no 5.1 sound on macbook, no stereo3d on macpro, and dell randomly inserted the first frame throughout the movie. Having ptroduced CDi discs for years I like the reliability of mass produced consumer electronics, versus the ever changing OS, firmware, sw app updates for presentations where the show must go on. Tech support for sony bdp s590 will not describe the detiled file spec needed to do this,becauseit is unpublished.

Realtech 1186 chip players maybe can do 1080p24 3d framepacking,maybe not. Apple seems to be oblivious to the 3d frame packing support, considering their long term inability to make 3d viz work I hold out little hope; although the black magic ultrastudio 3d thunderbolt might be able to generate hdmi 1.4 compliant infoframes, but their tech support does not respond and the manual is vague.


Any suggestions?


----------



## tfiproductions

hello, this is my first post so it will probably be noobish:


i have the capabilities to send FHD3D top/bottom 1920x2205 content to a 3dtv


my question is to be able to view FHD3D without any type of resolution loss

i have to have an ACTIVE 3d tv, not passive...


passive 3d loses half the resolution in one direction


if ACTIVE is the only way to see FHD3D, i've 'heard' 'read' that 3dvision is kinda on its way out the door


any advice, comments are appreciated...thanks in advance, j


----------



## RobertSmith8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rekbones*  /t/1288956/half-sbs-and-full-sbs-can-someone-explain-it/90#post_23157007
> 
> 
> Your least expensive solution is to buy a standalone 3D Blu-Ray player and rent or buy Blu Ray's. ISO file will give you the best quality but as you stated a pain to mount etc. MKV sbs is the most common file you will encounter in down loads and do look very good (better than cable or VUDU etc). If you want to use a HTPC just buy a Blu Ray burner ($60 on sale) and get power DVD 10 or better or any other one of the players out there. This will keep you above the law and get the best picture available.


I have a similarly question. I have two DLNA media servers. Synology Media Server and Plex media server on mac mini. Plex can only play SBS. So my idea was to buy a Blu Ray player and use DLNA to stream from Synology NAS, is this possible with e.g. Panasonic DMP-BDT 33 I want to avoid to mounting...


----------



## rekbones

None of my Blu Ray players with DLNA have a fast enough network to play any HD material from my Media servers (HTPC running XBMC) to stream with out judder. Only the PS3 has a gigabit network and the DLNA works well. I have a Sony (non 3D) and Panasonic 110


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## relaxman

On my Acer P1500 there is a menu option SBS Full
I have a 3840x1080 videofile on my PC.
How can i play it back in full quality, when windows resolution is maximized at 1920x1080?




thanks!


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## BlackShark

The official tech specs for the P1500 on Acer's website say the max input resolution is 1920x1200.
My guess is the SBS Full isn't full resolution, but full ratio (does not stretch the picture). Have you tried activating this feature ? what does it do ?


----------



## explorer76

Would it be possible for a 4K Smart TV to read and play a Full SBS file from an external drive using USB 3.0?


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## relaxman

BlackShark said:


> The official tech specs for the P1500 on Acer's website say the max input resolution is 1920x1200.
> My guess is the SBS Full isn't full resolution, but full ratio (does not stretch the picture). Have you tried activating this feature ? what does it do ?



Yes, i tested. Nothing happened when i change from SBS half to SBS full.


----------

