# Sticky  10 Things to Consider When Shopping for an AV Receiver



## IanR

Nice high-level summary Mark. What I think would be a nice addition would be a table of information by brand/model of whether they support HDMI 2.0a; whether they support 18 Gbps; and how many channels of immersive audio they can process and perhaps how many they can directly drive. I seem to remember a thread (just found it:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2582665-9-11-chan-v-recrs-atmos.html) where someone started to summarize this information so maybe we just need a link to that discussion thread from this article so it's easy to find in the future .. also so that if people find updated information, they can add it to that thread. Actually, that thread doesn't summarize it in a table/grid form yet .. and is likely to become a long thread so someone needs to summarize. Also .. ditch the price info from any table.
Some of these things (like does it support 18 Gbps) take a lot of digging so it would be a major productivity savings to the community if those who've already gone to the effort could share what they've learned. Of course, there will be disclaimers about 'no guarantees/best efforts/etc'.
Oh .. and this thread you just created should be posted/linked to in the Forums/AV Receivers sticky section


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## imagic

IanR said:


> Nice high-level summary Mark. What I think would be a nice addition would be a table of information by brand/model of whether they support HDMI 2.0a; whether they support 18 Gbps; and how many channels of immersive audio they can process and perhaps how many they can directly drive. I seem to remember a thread (just found it:http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2582665-9-11-chan-v-recrs-atmos.html) *where someone started to summarize this information so maybe we just need a link to that discussion thread from this article so it's easy to find in the future .*. also so that if people find updated information, they can add it to that thread. Actually, that thread doesn't summarize it in a table/grid form yet .. and is likely to become a long thread so someone needs to summarize. Also .. ditch the price info from any table.
> Some of these things (like does it support 18 Gbps) take a lot of digging so it would be a major productivity savings to the community if those who've already gone to the effort could share what they've learned. Of course, there will be disclaimers about 'no guarantees/best efforts/etc'.
> *Oh .. and this thread you just created should be posted/linked to in the Forums/AV Receivers sticky section*


Great ideas, I'll see what I can do.


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## magikfriend

Excellent Beginners Guide. I am going to file this for future references.


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## IanR

imagic said:


> Great ideas, I'll see what I can do.


Here's a sample of what I was thinking of. I can send you the spreadsheet if you want.


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## Fanboyz

The Denon 6300h's Video Scaler has a bug that keeps it from working correctly at 4K. It adds undefeatable edge enhancement and bob de-interlaces 1080i sources. 

I would very much like @imagic to look into this as it effects both the 2016 Denon and Marantz units and nobody at Denon support seems to care.


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## pdasterly

needed 5.2.4, went with yamaha rx-a2060. Happy with purchase


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## Mashie Saldana

I went with multiple AVR's for the extra speaker pleasure.


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## turnne1

I assume if you only HDMI 2.0 vs 2.0a that you cant view HDR content?
Or that a non issue that was upgrade with firmware updates on most newer AVR's?

Warren


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## Kamikaze13

FWIW the Nintendo Wii's standard connector is analog I believe. Would be important if you have kids and you plan to run through an AVR.


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## UHDfanInPeoria

Does the Onkyo TX-RZ3100 have an asynchronous USB DAC? 


I'm having a hard time finding whether it does or not.


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## gridpool

Kamikaze13 said:


> FWIW the Nintendo Wii's standard connector is analog I believe. Would be important if you have kids and you plan to run through an AVR.


Get the wii hdmi adapter and don't look back. That 1 edge case shouldn't keep you from a quality AVR.


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## Kamikaze13

gridpool said:


> Get the wii hdmi adapter and don't look back. That 1 edge case shouldn't keep you from a quality AVR.


Yeah I agree but I personally couldn't be bothered to buy yet another adapter, especially for a kids console, unless I had no other options.


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## psycholis

imagic said:


> - At around $1000 MSRP, you start to see features like the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction found on the Marantz SR5011 ($900).


 I wish the SR5011 had XT32. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. As it is the Denon X3300 is the better buy here for 100 bucks more but actually having XT32.


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## auronihilist

Excellent post. As always, Mark.


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## nathanddrews

I realize that this is a niche request - but it's a constant thorn in my side:

120Hz 1080p passthrough

Many AVRs claim compliance with different HDMI specs, but don't actually support all attributes of it, they are just compliant with specific portions of the specs. Most AVRs will simply not recognize the 120Hz signal, others will accept it, but then frame-skip it down to 60Hz for output to the TV. If anyone has had success with this, please let me know what make/model you have.

With any luck, the advent of HFR video will eventually remove this barrier...


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## jdsmoothie

Note the edits in red ...




imagic said:


> *1. Inputs and Outputs*
> 
> - Some AVRs offer more than one HDMI output. With two HDMI outputs, you can feed a projector for nighttime viewing and a flat-panel TV in the same room for daytime viewing. Alternatively, you can send the second HDMI output to a TV in another room, though this will probably require a fiber-optic or coax HDMI cable for such a long run. This is only true if both outputs are "main zone" outputs, as some AVR feature a Zone 2 HDMI output instead which would not work with a TV + PJ configuration.
> 
> - If you have source devices that rely on optical or coaxial digital connections, make sure the AVR you choose has enough of these inputs to suit your needs. There are 3rd party optical switches that can be used to provide more optical inputs.
> 
> *3. Immersive Audio*
> 
> - Auro 3D is a $199 paid add-on for only the upper-tier AVRs from Denon and Marantz. However, there isn't much content encoded in Auro 3D yet.
> 
> 
> *4. Number of Amplifier Channels*
> 
> 
> - 7-channel AVRs can handle Dolby Atmos and DTS:X in a 5.1.2 speaker configuration as well as traditional 7.1 speaker systems. Some 2014 and 2015 Denon and Marantz 7CH models can expand to 9CH using a 2CH external amp.
> 
> *8. Analog Inputs and 2-Channel Audio*
> 
> - If you have a collection of analog-audio sources, make sure there are enough analog-audio inputs to accommodate them on the AVRs you are considering. Or simply purchase an analog switch.
> 
> - If you plan on listening to vinyl records, look for an AVR that offers a phono input (unless your turntable has a built-in pre-amp or you are using a 3rd party phono pre-amp); not all of them do.
> 
> *10. Budget and Recommendations*
> 
> - Between $1000 - $1500 MSRP, you start to see features like the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction found on the Marantz SR6011 ($1399). Yamaha's A1060 ($1199) similarly offers seven channels of power and is packed with premium features like two separate HDMI zones and Yamaha's MusicCast wireless-audio system.


.


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## imagic

jdsmoothie said:


> Note the edits in red ...
> 
> .


Good stuff, thx. Edits incorporated.


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## anthonymoody

What about Dolby Vision support? I know that no 2016 receivers have it, and that you can always route video to your display and audio to your receiver, IF your sources have dual HDMI outputs to accommodate this.

I would assume that 2017 will see the first DV capable receivers...

EDIT: further research on my part seems to indicate - from many, older threads - that DV can be passed through receivers with HDMI 1.4. *Has that been confirmed?*


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## jdsmoothie

anthonymoody said:


> What about Dolby Vision support? I know that no 2016 receivers have it, and that you can always route video to your display and audio to your receiver, IF your sources have dual HDMI outputs to accommodate this.
> 
> I would assume that 2017 will see the first DV capable receivers...
> 
> EDIT: further research on my part seems to indicate - from many, older threads - that DV can be passed through receivers with HDMI 1.4. *Has that been confirmed?*


 The 2015 and 2016 AVRs "should" pass Dolby Vision if all video processing is disabled.

More current information indicates a firmware update is required to pass Dolby Vision which will be released to only the 2016 models.


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## tinhvo

I'm planning to get a decent AVR, can someone please recommend me a few?
What I am looking for is:
+ Dolby TrueHD/Atmos, DTS-MA HD/DTX-S
+ latest HDMI (2.0a?)
+ 4K passthru
+ capable of running 5.1.4 for future either with built-in or add-on amplifier.

I'm only have 2.1 speaker set now but probably moving to 5.1 in a few months. I eventually love to try 5.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X, I would love to have an AVR that has those features now so I don't have to buy another AVR in a year or two. 
Should I go directly to 9-channel AVR and be done with that (cost more) or 7-channel AVR for now and buy external amp. for additional two channels later? Which way is better?
I've seen the Yamaha at Costco, the TSR-7810, on sale for $450. Is it a good option?

Thanks for all input.

I have an old Onkyo RX-SR703 AVR which doesn't have any HDMI port, I think I can survive with audio (while video can be connected directly to TV from sources) but I'm a fan of lossless audio.


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## jdsmoothie

tinhvo said:


> I'm planning to get a decent AVR, can someone please recommend me a few?
> What I am looking for is:
> + Dolby TrueHD/Atmos, DTS-MA HD/DTX-S
> + latest HDMI (2.0a?)
> + 4K passthru
> *+ capable of running 5.1.4 for future either with built-in or add-on amplifier.*
> 
> I'm only have 2.1 speaker set now but probably moving to 5.1 in a few months. I eventually love to try 5.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X, I would love to have an AVR that has those features now so I don't have to buy another AVR in a year or two.
> Should I go directly to 9-channel AVR and be done with that (cost more) or 7-channel AVR for now and buy external amp. for additional two channels later? Which way is better?
> I've seen the Yamaha at Costco, the TSR-7810, on sale for $450. Is it a good option?
> 
> Thanks for all input.
> 
> I have an old Onkyo RX-SR703 AVR which doesn't have any HDMI port, I think I can survive with audio (while video can be connected directly to TV from sources) but I'm a fan of lossless audio.



All 9CH 2015 or 2016 models should meet your requirements; however, there are only two 7CH models that can expand to 9CH using an external 2CH amp and both are 2015 models: Denon X4200W and Marantz SR6010.


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## tinhvo

jdsmoothie said:


> All 9CH 2015 or 2016 models should meet your requirements; however, there are only two 7CH models that can expand to 9CH using an external 2CH amp and both are 2015 models: Denon X4200W and Marantz SR6010.


Just for my own knowledge, can you please explain a bit why those 2 are capable while others aren't?
I thought the Yammy has pre-outs so we can add more channels by driving them out into external amp. Maybe it can but not for Atmos?

TIA.


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## jdsmoothie

tinhvo said:


> Just for my own knowledge, can you please explain a bit why those 2 are capable while others aren't?
> I thought the Yammy has pre-outs so we can add more channels by driving them out into external amp. Maybe it can but not for Atmos?
> 
> TIA.


Because they are the only two major brand models that are designed to expand from 7CH --> 9CH. All other 7CH major brand models (to include Yamaha), can simply use the main zone pre-outs to provide additional power to the 7 main zone speakers ... there is no further expansion capability beyond the 7CH.


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## tinhvo

I can see that Denon X4200W & Marantz SR6010 do have 9 channel processing capability. I' sure that is the reason but honestly not fully understand 
Anyway, it's expensive to experience .4 from .2, eh.
Just a note, the Denon X4300H does have 9.2 channel processing, so we don't have to add an external 2-ch amp when moving to 5.1.4. It's same price as the X4200W.


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## 6volt

Features and Specs are good, but the two most important for me are:

1) Build Quality - how long it works before it's junk, and
2) Sound Quality - I realize an A-V receiver is hard pressed to go up against Audiophile Equipment, but some assessment is in order.


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## Postmoderndesign

jdsmoothie said:


> Because they are the only two major brand models that are designed to expand from 7CH --> 9CH. All other 7CH major brand models (to include Yamaha), can simply use the main zone pre-outs to provide additional power to the 7 main zone speakers ... there is no further expansion capability beyond the 7CH.


My reading of the TSR-7810 manual is that it has two pre outs for sub woofers and some pre outs for additional power to some speaker that have internal amplifiers. Also, the AVR allows for both rear surround speakers and front presence speakers to be attached. "The surround back speaker and presence speakers do not produce sounds simultaneously. The unit automatically changes the speakers to be used, depending on the input signal and CINEMA DSP" However, it appears correct that it cannot be expanded to a 9 channel amplifier.


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## afrogt

^^that's a pretty cool feature, especially for an AVR that can be had under $500 at Costco. But yes it is only a 7 channel receiver despite the 9 speaker channel terminals.


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## kenny4444

imagic said:


> With the holiday shopping season right around the corner, upgrade fever is sure to hit many AV enthusiasts. One of the key components in any serious system is an AV receiver, and this year's fall harvest looks to be a good one for anyone seeking better sound quality.
> 
> Here are 10 things to consider when you begin the search for the right AVR to suit your needs.
> 
> *1. Inputs and Outputs*
> 
> - As of 2016, most mainstream AVRs sport HDMI 2.0 inputs with HDCP 2.2 copy protection. This allows them to pass 4K/UHD and 3D content from the source device through the AVR to the display.
> 
> - To pass HDR10 content from Ultra HD Blu-ray and online providers with a compatible Roku or Chromecast streamer, you need an AVR that supports HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2.
> 
> - Try to determine if the HDMI ports operate at 10.2 or 18 Gbps; they should operate at 18 Gbps if possible.
> 
> - An HDMI input on the front panel is a plus if you plan to connect and disconnect a source on a regular basis—for example, a gaming console or camcorder.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer more than one HDMI output. With two HDMI outputs, you can feed a projector for nighttime viewing and a flat-panel TV in the same room for daytime viewing. Alternatively, you can send the second HDMI output to a TV in another room, though this will probably require a fiber-optic or coax HDMI cable for such a long run.
> 
> - Some AVRs feature a Zone 2 HDMI output instead of dual HDMI outputs, which would not work with a TV plus projector configuration.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer an asynchronous USB DAC, which lets you send digital-audio bitstreams from high-res audio source devices. This is important for audiophiles.
> 
> - If you have source devices that rely on optical or coaxial digital connections, make sure the AVR you choose has enough of these inputs to suit your needs.
> 
> *2. Power Rating*
> 
> - Power ratings for AVRs typically come with many caveats; for example, power ratings typically refer to only one or two channels being powered.
> 
> - The more channels you need to power at once, the lower the output of each channel. But it's extremely rare for a movie or music to demand equal power from all channels simultaneously, so this is less of an issue than it might seem.
> 
> - There's not a lot of difference between 100 watts and 120 watts, or 80 watts and 110 watts. All else being equal, small increases in power ratings do not represent much of an upgrade.
> 
> - Most AVR power ratings are specified with a speaker impedance of 8 ohms, which is very common among consumer speakers. If your speakers have a lower nominal impedance, they will draw more power from the amplifiers; be sure the AVRs you are considering can safely drive speakers with less than 8-ohm impedance.
> 
> - Many AVRs advertise power ratings into speaker impedances of 6 or even 4 ohms with very high THD (total harmonic distortion) figures; with THD, the lower, the better.
> 
> - The sensitivity of your speakers will have a greater impact on how loud your system can play than the power rating of an AVR.
> 
> - The power rating of an AVR does not need to match the power-handling spec of your speakers, but they should be in roughly the same ballpark. Under most conditions, the AVR is supplying no more than one or two watts to the speakers.
> 
> - For a hybrid high-performance solution, consider an AVR with preamp outs connected to a dedicated amplifier for the three front channels, which typically consume the most power. With some nine-channel AVRs, adding a 2-channel amp lets you take advantage of 11-channel processing.
> 
> *3. Immersive Audio*
> 
> - Support for immersive audio—that is, sound from speakers placed around and above the listening position—has become nearly ubiquitous in modern AVRs.
> 
> - You can get Dolby Atmos and DTS:X capability in very affordable AVRs.
> 
> - Auro 3D is a $199 paid add-on for only the upper-tier AVRs from Denon and Marantz. However, there isn't much content encoded in Auro 3D yet.
> 
> - Seriously consider a 9-channel AVR that gives you 5.1.4 channels (five main channels, one subwoofer channel, four overhead or height channels) if you want the full immersive effect. 5.1.2 is good, but 5.1.4 (and 7.1.4) systems can convey movement and ambience better.
> 
> *4. Number of Amplifier Channels*
> 
> - As a general rule, more amplifier channels will cost you more money. Therefore, it is important to decide how many speakers you need to power ahead of time.
> 
> - 5-channel AVRs are the most basic and typically the most affordable.
> 
> - 7-channel AVRs can handle Dolby Atmos and DTS:X in a 5.1.2 speaker configuration as well as traditional 7.1 speaker systems. Some 2014 and 2015 Denon and Marantz models can expand to nine channels using an external amp.
> 
> - 9-channel AVRs can handle 5.1.4 Atmos and DTS:X, which offers a superior immersive experience to systems with only two elevation channels.
> 
> - Some 9-channel AVRs also offer 11-channel processing, but you'll need an external 2-channel amp to take advantage of that.
> 
> - This year there are several 11-channel AVRs to choose from; these models can handle 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X or amplify multiple zones.
> *
> 5. Room Correction*
> 
> - Room correction—compensating for acoustical irregularities in a given room—is one of the most important features to consider when deciding between different brands of AVRs.
> 
> - Some companies, such as Yamaha, Pioneer, and Onkyo, use their own proprietary systems, while others, like Denon and Marantz, license sophisticated third-party solutions such as Audyssey and Dirac Live.
> 
> - There is a lot of variation in terms of capability between different room-correction systems.
> 
> - Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Dirac Live both have a reputation for being very effective.
> 
> - Some speaker and room combinations benefit from room correction more than others.
> 
> *6. Networking *
> 
> - Whether you need it or not, a 2016-model AVR is likely to have some sort of network connectivity.
> 
> - An Ethernet port is useful if you plan to locate the AVR far from a wireless router or use IP control in conjunction with a home-automation system. Also, a wired Ethernet connection assures the best possible performance for audio streamed from other devices on the network.
> 
> - Many AVRs use Wi-Fi to offer compatibility with Apple AirPlay, DTS Play-Fi, and other wireless AV systems.
> 
> - Another useful networking feature is playback from a DLNA server connected to your home network.
> 
> *7. Wireless and Multi-Room Audio Features*
> 
> - For many years, some AVRs have offered the ability to send audio and video to two or more separate rooms or "zones" in a home using dedicated hard-wired connections such as interconnect and speaker cables as well as analog video and even HDMI.
> 
> - These days, many AVRs come with some sort of networked-audio capabilities. Some brands only offer their own proprietary system such as Denon HEOS or Yamaha MusicCast, which work only with other compatible products from the same manufacturer. Other brands, like Pioneer and Onkyo, have adopted third-party platforms such as Google Cast and DTS Play-Fi.
> 
> - If you like to mix and match brands, the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem includes products from the most manufacturers.
> 
> - If you use Bluetooth, look for aptX technology, which ensures high-quality audio transmission.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer the option of streaming audio from cloud-based services.
> 
> *8. Analog Inputs and 2-Channel Audio*
> 
> - Unless you have a legacy video source, such as a LaserDisc player or VCR, analog video inputs, such as component or composite video, are completely unnecessary.
> 
> - If you have a collection of analog-audio sources, make sure there are enough analog-audio inputs to accommodate them on the AVRs you are considering.
> 
> - If you plan on listening to vinyl records, look for an AVR that offers a phono input, not all of them do. This does not apply if your turntable has a built-in pre-amp, or you are using a third party phono pre-amp.
> 
> *9. Remote and App-Based Control*
> 
> - Since AVRs are complex devices, they often come with remote controls that are stuffed with buttons.
> 
> - Many AVRs have included an RS-232 serial port for connection to home-automation systems from companies like Crestron, but this is being supplanted by IP control over your home's network.
> 
> - Control apps for phones and tablets are available from many AVR makers, but their functionality varies widely. If like to control things with a mobile device, you might want to consider how capable the app is.
> 
> - Look for an IR input if you plan to use a standard remote and house the AVR in a cabinet or closet.
> 
> *10. Budget and Recommendations*
> 
> - The key to shopping for an AVR is to set your budget first, determine how many speakers you plan to power, factor in what sources you intend to connect, and consider the kind of content you intend to consume—some folks are music-first and others use AVRs primarily for home cinema.
> 
> - In 2016, even affordable entry-level AVRs like Yamaha's RX-V481 ($400) and Pioneer's VSX-830-K ($400) offer full UHD/4K HDMI passthrough, room correction, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and multi-room audio. The Denon AVR-S720W ($480) even adds 5.1.2 Atmos and DTS:X to the mix for under five bills. Sony's STR-DN860 ($300) is a 7-channel model that sports a modern graphic user interface and streams from Spotify Connect, Deezer, Pandora, and TuneIn.
> 
> - Above the $500 price point, you'll find a lot of features crammed into 7-channel AVRs from various mainstream manufacturers. Denon's AVR-S920W ($580) offers Dolby Atmos 5.1.2, eight HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs, Audyssey MultEQ, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and much more.
> 
> - Between $1000 and $1500 MSRP, you start to see features like the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction found on the Marantz SR6011 ($1400). Yamaha's RX-A1060 ($1100) similarly offers seven channels of power and is packed with premium features like two separate HDMI zones and Yamaha's MusicCast wireless-audio system.
> 
> If you budget $1500 or more, you can expect to find AVRs with top-tier room correction, nine or more channels of amplification, multiple zones, more power, and overall better specs. Denon's AVR-X6300H ($2200) offers 11 amps, giving it the ability to drive a full Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 speaker system without any additional amplification. Pioneer's SC-LX901 ($3000) is another 11-amp option that claims its class-D amps can output twice as much peak power (all channels driven) as many competing AVRs. You'll also find an 11-channel option from Anthem in its MRX1120 model ($3500), which uses the highly effective Anthem Room Correction (ARC) system. Not to be outdone, Onkyo also has an 11-amp model, the TX-RZ3100 ($3200).
> 
> I'm sure that AVS Forum members have many opinions about all of this, so I invite you to share them in the comments. What are your most important considerations when shopping for an AVR? What models do you recommend at different price points?
> _
> Please do not click on the Quick Reply button at the bottom of this article, which will quote the entire article in your comment without you knowing it. Wading through the entire article in the comments is quite annoying! If you want to quote a portion of the article, click on the Quote button and delete everything that does not pertain to your comment. Otherwise, use the Quick Reply comment editor at the bottom of each page, which does not quote the original post. Thanks!_






Another thing to consider is support for the product you are purchasing, especially based on your geographic location. For example I am going through hell at the moment trying to get a warranty repair done in Canada by a third party. Since some manufacturer's do not have a head office in Canada they sub contract their warranty repairs to third party electronic shops. Some of these shops might be qualified to fix a 40 year old tube amp but a brand new high end 2016 model is a completely different story. How they have been "qualified" to perform warranty repairs is beyond me. My receiver has been sitting at a shop for about 24 days now, "waiting for parts". If I lived in the U.S. this would not be happening. Something to consider in my opinion.


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## 6volt

I remember when you sent units back to the manufacturer for repair.

Those were the days...


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## jdsmoothie

kenny4444 said:


> Another thing to consider is support for the product you are purchasing, especially based on your geographic location. For example I am going through hell at the moment trying to get a warranty repair done in Canada by a third party. Since some manufacturer's do not have a head office in Canada they sub contract their warranty repairs to third party electronic shops. Some of these shops might be qualified to fix a 40 year old tube amp but a brand new high end 2016 model is a completely different story. How they have been "qualified" to perform warranty repairs is beyond me. My receiver has been sitting at a shop for about 24 days now, "waiting for parts". *If I lived in the U.S. this would not be happening.* Something to consider in my opinion.


It actually happens all the time in the USA, especially when using a smaller repair shop that is backed up for weeks with many other repairs or waiting for parts from the mfr. However, in the USA, you can ship Denon and Marantz products purchased in the USA to the "factory repair center" (*United Radio, Syracuse, NY*) for a repair turn around time that generally only lasts a few days. One member from California shipped his Marantz AVR there on a Monday which takes a week to cross the country via UPS Ground and another week to come back. He got his repaired AVR back the following Friday.


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## Bull_Auger

*11.2 Receiver*

I've been looking at purchasing a 11.2 receiver, and I see Denon offers a nice X6300H at a decent price range. What advantages do other 11.2 receivers on the market offer besides price increase.


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## jdsmoothie

Bull_Auger said:


> I've been looking at purchasing a 11.2 receiver, and I see Denon offers a nice X6300H at a decent price range. What advantages do other 11.2 receivers on the market offer besides price increase.


Different features ... different EQ program (not necessarily better): Onkyo RZ3100 (AccuEQ) and Pioneer SC-LX901 (MCACC Pro).


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## Bull_Auger

Fanboyz said:


> The Denon 6300h's Video Scaler has a bug that keeps it from working correctly at 4K. It adds undefeatable edge enhancement and bob de-interlaces 1080i sources.
> 
> I would very much like @*imagic* to look into this as it effects both the 2016 Denon and Marantz units and nobody at Denon support seems to care.


Do you know if this bug is fixed?


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## shadow2810

Should I get a/v receiver if I only use headphone (Sennheiser rs 185)? Is it waste of money if I have no plan to setup speakers? Currently I'm considering Onkyo TX-NR545 (mainly because of 6 hdmi ports that support 4k 4:4:[email protected])


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## NUWildcat928

awesome, thanks


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## Pyperkub

One thing I'd like to see is whether the HDMI/HDCP is upgradeable (on HDMI-switching devices) without requiring buying a new Receiver. It's been almost 4 years since HDCP 2.2 was released, and I expect that for purchases in 2017, it is likely that the spec will be updated again during the lifetime of the device.


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## Pyperkub

Oh, one other thing - how much heat the device puts out. When I bought my Pioneer in 2009, I didn't realize how much heat it would put out and I had placed my Blu-ray player on top of it, and in less than a day or 2, the BR player had stopped working and was throwing errors which were a result of being overheated from the Receiver. Fortunately I was able to swap the BR player at Costco back then.


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## nowHT

shadow2810 said:


> Should I get a/v receiver if I only use headphone (Sennheiser rs 185)? Is it waste of money if I have no plan to setup speakers? Currently I'm considering Onkyo TX-NR545 (mainly because of 6 hdmi ports that support 4k 4:4:[email protected])


I think I would do a hdmi switch personally.


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## skrowl

It's kind of hard to tell here, but are there any $900 - $1000 2016 AVRs that do true dual HDMI output instead of Zone 2 / force you to 2.0 audio in main zone if you're using 2nd HDMI output to a TV?


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## coyote-1

About power: most power is absorbed in generating low frequencies. If your 5 channels are getting 20 clean watts each, with a powered sub to accompany them, that will suffice for most rooms. Higher power simply allows you to get to your volume with less distortion. By all means purchase as much power as you can afford.... but if that limits you to $500 for your receiver, your experience will still generally be delightful.

About network capability: it can also allow you to control your gear in various ways. Newest of course being voice control - which I thought was silly, until I started doing it. It's awesome.


----------



## TheRatPatrol

A lot of great info here, thank you imagic.

My question is, are AVR manufacturers still putting their AM/FM presets in channel "banks"? 

I have a circa 2000's Yamaha AVR that has five banks of 8 channels each, for a total of 40 channel presets. When you get done scanning the 8 channels in one bank you have to switch to the second one and then the third one, etc., its a PITA. Why can't they just put the 40 channels in a 1 to 40 channel range (or give us a 1 to 99 channel preset range) and call it done? That way you can scan/surf channels 1 to whatever without having to switch banks. It would also be nice to be able to go to/type in the channel directly, or better yet, give us the option to type in the frequency, 95.5.

What are the newer models doing noawdadays with their AM/FM tuners? Are they still adding HD radio tuners as well?

Yes I still listen to local radio stations. 

Thanks


----------



## word302

Fanboyz said:


> The Denon 6300h's Video Scaler has a bug that keeps it from working correctly at 4K. It adds undefeatable edge enhancement and bob de-interlaces 1080i sources.
> 
> I would very much like @imagic to look into this as it effects both the 2016 Denon and Marantz units and nobody at Denon support seems to care.


Does anyone know if this issue has been resolved? @jdsmoothie


----------



## Fanboyz

word302 said:


> Does anyone know if this issue has been resolved? @jdsmoothie




Hasn't been.
Denon's own people said just keep 1080p sources at 1080p till further notice.


----------



## word302

Fanboyz said:


> word302 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this issue has been resolved? @jdsmoothie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hasn't been.
> Denon's own people said just keep 1080p sources at 1080p till further notice.
Click to expand...

Same issues with 4300?


----------



## wreckingball

word302 said:


> Same issues with 4300?


Good Lord, I hope not! I just went through returning an X4200 for a 4300 hoping it would end all my (current) woes.
That's the last thing I need trying to integrate the 4300 into a current Oppo 203/LGB6 (4k/HDR/DV) setup...sigh...

Funnily enough, it's actually *good* to hear that Denon said "till further notice" when speaking of this issue. 
Hopefully they will live up to their past quality standards and deliver a fix...


----------



## IronHorse

This is a great all-around thread on the newer AVRs, and I've been looking at it as perhaps a newer AVR is in the cards. I do have one "*2-ZONE*" question for the experts lol...

*- Some AVRs offer more than one HDMI output. With two HDMI outputs, you can feed a projector for nighttime viewing and a flat-panel TV in the same room for daytime viewing. Alternatively, you can send the second HDMI output to a TV in another room, though this will probably require a fiber-optic or coax HDMI cable for such a long run. *

OK, I see more and more AVRs with 2-HDMI outputs. I have a 65" in the Family Room and a 40" in the kitchen. Currently I have cobbled up a HDMI-Powered splitter taking signal from my DirecTV receiver, with HDMI #1 OUT to the Kitchen TV, and HDMI #2 OUT feeds into the AVR-HDMI-IN #1 . Sounds confusing but it works... I can put DirecTV programs on in either the kitchen or family room (or both) with a beautiful picture (I used very heavy HDMI wire) and of course its the same program. This 2-Zone OUT option on some AVRs like Denons and Marantz has me wondering? Can I actually send two different signals to the two TVs? IOW, if I want to feed Comcast HD cable into Zone #1 (Kitchen) and DierecTV into Zone #2 (Family Room) simultaneously... will that work??? So when the grandkids come over and want to watch an HBO movie in the Family Room, and maybe I want to watch ESPN or the CNN News in the kitchen... can I do that? The Kitchen TV is using its own built-in speakers, the Family room has a bunch of speakers.

I'm just looking for the simple, straightforward approach... I have the wires already in the walls with enough slack to connect. If I have to run separate speakers in the kitchen with speaker wires from the AVR to the kitchen... I won't bother. The language used in describing 2-Zone HDMI seems a bit vague, or maybe too technical? Thanks for the help!

Mike


----------



## SQCraving

No mention of preamp outputs. The upgrade bug will get most of us and that "what would it sound like with an external amplifier" voice gets louder and louder until you want to buy one. I will not buy another receiver without preouts because I now have an amp in 3 rooms.


----------



## cpvasconcelos

SQCraving said:


> No mention of preamp outputs. The upgrade bug will get most of us and that "what would it sound like with an external amplifier" voice gets louder and louder until you want to buy one. I will not buy another receiver without preouts because I now have an amp in 3 rooms.


I have a Denon 2200W. 

Sound quality only, will it improve if upgrading to Denon 4300W?

(7.2 Klipsch RP speakers and two subs).

Thanks.


----------



## coolhand

6volt said:


> Features and Specs are good, but the two most important for me are:
> 
> 1) Build Quality - how long it works before it's junk, and
> 2) Sound Quality - I realize an A-V receiver is hard pressed to go up against Audiophile Equipment, but some assessment is in order.






This.


I DESPISE the way receivers are marketed now, and even this top 10 list omits the cornerstones of any receiver (build/power). Maybe some of you use some of these peculiar features but outside of 3d/4k passthrough the only thing I really care about is how it sounds, how its built, and how much power it has.


CERTAINLY if you are going to use Atmos you would need an Atmos receiver. And there are plenty of other features you may need in your space. Otherwise I feel like getting something like this:
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ch-x-140-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html
rather than identically priced Denon X2300 and Yamaha V781.


----------



## jdsmoothie

cpvasconcelos said:


> I have a Denon 2200W.
> 
> Sound quality only, will it improve if upgrading to Denon 4300W?
> 
> (7.2 Klipsch RP speakers and two subs).
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, as the X4300H and even the X3300W both use the much more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 as well as Sub EQ HT (dual sub level/delay).

Refer to the first 8 posts in the 2016 Denon AVR Owner's thread linked below for more information.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...s-series-x-series-avr-owner-s-thread-faq.html


----------



## cpvasconcelos

jdsmoothie said:


> Yes, as the X4300H and even the X3300W both use the much more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 as well as Sub EQ HT (dual sub level/delay).
> 
> Refer to the first 8 posts in the 2016 Denon AVR Owner's thread linked below for more information.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...s-series-x-series-avr-owner-s-thread-faq.html


Thanks guys.

Would you think I should dig deeper in pockets and instead of 4300 go for 6300?

Just worried about sound quality, not extra channels or features.

Cheers.


----------



## cpvasconcelos

Bump


----------



## jdsmoothie

cpvasconcelos said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> Would you think I should dig deeper in pockets and instead of 4300 go for 6300?
> 
> Just worried about sound quality, not extra channels or features.
> 
> Cheers.


Specific model questions are best discussed in their respective Owner's thread ---> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...ries-avr-owner-s-thread-faq.html#post43790578


----------



## aypues

I have a 2009 Pioneer Elite SC – 25 and it works fine. I'm hearing now that since Onkyo acquired Pioneer the quality has really gone downhill. Something about the HDMI connectors switch over and then they don't work at all. I might be needing a new receiver soon because my 2008 Samsung LED tv just started really actively dying. My new tv will be 4k, hdr, etc and need a receiver to pass those newer signals. Who makes the best receiver these days?


----------



## Big BBB

I had an Onkyo that suffered those problems. The HDMI board kept frying. Had it replaced once by the factory and the second board did the same thing. I have sworn off Onkyo won't touch anymore.


----------



## jdsmoothie

aypues said:


> I have a 2009 Pioneer Elite SC – 25 and it works fine. I'm hearing now that since Onkyo acquired Pioneer the quality has really gone downhill. Something about the HDMI connectors switch over and then they don't work at all. I might be needing a new receiver soon because my 2008 Samsung LED tv just started really actively dying. My new tv will be 4k, hdr, etc and need a receiver to pass those newer signals. Who makes the best receiver these days?


What brand/model you purchase will depend on your feature/input/output requirements as well as budget. Atmos/DTS:X? Pre-outs? 5CH/7CH/9CH/11CH?


----------



## aypues

jdsmoothie said:


> What brand/model you purchase will depend on your feature/input/output requirements as well as budget. Atmos/DTS:X? Pre-outs? 5CH/7CH/9CH/11CH?


Budget up to $1500. Don't need preouts but they come on most of them. Don't need Atmos right now, but I may want it at some point in the future. I really just want the sound quality and imaging to be flawless. I have big, floorstanding B&W speakers....604's I believe, not sure, from around 2004 that are great. The rest of the 7.1 system is B&W with the exception of the sub which is another brand that I can't recall but it works very well. 

I started researching the Denon's that were released a few months ago. I've had Denon's in the past that were good. Are they still strong? Any other brands you all would recommend I look at? I think Onkyo/Pioneer is off limits now with their HDMI/electrical problems. Thanks


----------



## jdsmoothie

aypues said:


> Budget up to $1500. Don't need preouts but they come on most of them. Don't need Atmos right now, but I may want it at some point in the future. I really just want the sound quality and imaging to be flawless. I have big, floorstanding B&W speakers....604's I believe, not sure, from around 2004 that are great. The rest of the 7.1 system is B&W with the exception of the sub which is another brand that I can't recall but it works very well.
> 
> I started researching the Denon's that were released a few months ago. I've had Denon's in the past that were good. Are they still strong? Any other brands you all would recommend I look at? I think Onkyo/Pioneer is off limits now with their HDMI/electrical problems. Thanks


The Denon X4300H (9CH able to expand to 11CH w/2CH external amp) and Yamaha A2060 (fixed at 9CH) would both be good choices for you to consider. The Denon is able to use the new Audyssey MultEQ Editor iOS/Android app ($20) which allows customizing the Audyssey EQ curve (formerly only possible when using the Audyssey Pro Kit @ $700).

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-app-denon-marantz-av-receivers-pre-pros.html


----------



## aypues

Thanks JD. I got the 4300 and am loving it. Much better sound than my old pioneer sc-25


----------



## ehaze

Is the Denon's AVR-S920W still the go to for a receiver in the ~$500 price range?


----------



## jdsmoothie

ehaze said:


> Is the Denon's AVR-S920W still the go to for a receiver in the ~$500 price range?


Now it's the recently released S930H with the new HEOS module built-in.


----------



## Lord Raven

Kindly suggest a receiver in 500-1000 range, it should be musical as I will be listening to 2 channel bookshelf speakers for new but will add a center channel and a subwoofer later on.

What is the go-to receiver for music listers?

Thanks!


----------



## jdsmoothie

Lord Raven said:


> Kindly suggest a receiver in 500-1000 range, it should be musical as I will be listening to 2 channel bookshelf speakers for new but will add a center channel and a subwoofer later on.
> 
> What is the go-to receiver for music listers?
> 
> Thanks!


Marantz SR5011


----------



## Merrick97

I am looking for a sub- $300 receiver that supports 4K HDR and Dolby Vision passthrough. No interest in Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Perfectly happy with TrueHD and DTSHD:MA 

So far it would seem that the Yamaha RX-V383BL is the receiver for me. Any other suggestions?


----------



## mclmk8d

*Chromecast built in?*

Are there any receivers that have chromecast built in?


----------



## Anodyne

jdsmoothie said:


> Now it's the recently released S930H with the new HEOS module built-in.


Is it worth a little more $ to get the X2300 over the S930H? Or is there, 4 months on, a better sub-$500 option currently out there? My biggest need is Dolby Vision support but I'd also like to get the best version of Audyssey I can for the money, especially as I have 2 subs.


----------



## afrogt

If you want the best dual sub support you need an AVR with sub EQ HT which the Denon x3300 has along with Audyssey XT32.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-MSmaT...85657&awdv=c&awkw=&awmt=b&awnw=g&awug=9031997

The x2300 cannot calibrate and EQ dual subs individually. You'll have to spend a little bit more.


----------



## MOberhardt

This might be a dumb question, but do receivers in general allow you to flip a room speaker arrangement with a projector setup. Eg run the rears and uppers from the receiver amp, and take preamp out for front and centres? That way keep short HDMI runs, and players at the projector?


----------



## jdsmoothie

Merrick97 said:


> I am looking for a sub- $300 receiver that supports 4K HDR and Dolby Vision passthrough. No interest in Dolby Atmos or DTS:X. Perfectly happy with TrueHD and DTSHD:MA
> 
> So far it would seem that the Yamaha RX-V383BL is the receiver for me. Any other suggestions?


The 2016 Denon S720W just recently received the Dolby Vision + HLG firmware update. 

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers/avrs720w

The older 2015 S710W is also expected to receive the same update within the next few months.


----------



## jdsmoothie

MOberhardt said:


> This might be a dumb question, but do receivers in general allow you to *flip a room speaker arrangement* with a projector setup. Eg run the rears and uppers from the receiver amp, and take preamp out for front and centres? That way keep short HDMI runs, and players at the projector?


Not sure what you mean by "flip a room speaker arrangement" (as there would be only 1 HDMI cable from the AVR to the PJ which has no impact on how the speakers are powered), but yes, with most (but not all) AVRs you can externally power L/C/R and let the AVR power the remaining speakers.


----------



## jdsmoothie

Anodyne said:


> Is it worth a little more $ to get the X2300 over the S930H? Or is there, 4 months on, a better sub-$500 option currently out there? My biggest need is Dolby Vision support but I'd also like to get the best version of Audyssey I can for the money, especially as I have 2 subs.


1. Depends on the price difference and whether the upgrades are worth it to you (ie. extra 3rd year of warranty, better version of Audyssey MultEQ XT, Zone 2 pre-outs). The X2300W just recently received the Dolby Vision firmware update.

2. The lowest Denon model that features the best version of Audyssey (XT32) is the X3300W (or newer X3400H w/HEOS) both of which also feature Audyssey Sub EQ HT (dual sub level/delay).


----------



## MOberhardt

jdsmoothie said:


> Not sure what you mean by "flip a room speaker arrangement" (as there would be only 1 HDMI cable from the AVR to the PJ which has no impact on how the speakers are powered), but yes, with most (but not all) AVRs you can externally power L/C/R and let the AVR power the remaining speakers.


I mean say the receiver has 7 powered channels and I use them for rears and Atmos, run preamp out to the fronts. Most receivers I can't figure how to override that. The from powered channels always seem dedicated. The designs are geared to a front TV, front AV gear. You put the display device at the rear and it isn't as neat.


----------



## jdsmoothie

MOberhardt said:


> I mean say the receiver has 7 powered channels and I use them for rears and Atmos, run preamp out to the fronts. Most receivers I can't figure how to override that. The from powered channels always seem dedicated. The designs are geared to a front TV, front AV gear. You put the display device at the rear and it isn't as neat.


A 7CH model wouldn't have the capability for both Rears and Atmos rather only 7.1 (side + rear surrounds) or 5.1.2 (side surrounds + Atmos).

So then you want to connect a second set of speakers for the L/C/R for the PJ screen in the rear of the room. Yes, this is possible as well; however, you would not be able to mute the speakers connected to the L/C/R speaker posts when using the externally powered speakers unless you connect them to an A/B speaker selector switch.


----------



## jerethemiah

My Onkyo HT-R670 died... Help me decide what to replace it with, < $800.

Current Setup (7.1) mostly used for TV, movies, and gaming. Not used much for music and no second zone.

Gear:
- TV : Samsung 55, 3d, non-4K
- Center : Polk CS2 series 2
- Front L/R : Polk Monitor 60 series 2
- Rears : Monoprice In-ceiling flush 8"
- Sub : BIC F-12

Room : Hardwood floors, 9ft H x 18ft W x 16ft L ( technically 27 ft, as its an open floor plan into the kitchen) 

Dont need a bunch of HDMI inputs - TV, bluray, xbox, and a spare. Would like to have Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Don't think I'd go with 9.1, but it'd be good to have the option. 


Thanks for your input and suggestions!


----------



## jjackkrash

jerethemiah said:


> My Onkyo HT-R670 died... Help me decide what to replace it with, < $800.
> 
> Current Setup (7.1) mostly used for TV, movies, and gaming. Not used much for music and no second zone.
> 
> Gear:
> - TV : Samsung 55, 3d, non-4K
> - Center : Polk CS2 series 2
> - Front L/R : Polk Monitor 60 series 2
> - Rears : Monoprice In-ceiling flush 8"
> - Sub : BIC F-12
> 
> Room : Hardwood floors, 9ft H x 18ft W x 16ft L ( technically 27 ft, as its an open floor plan into the kitchen)
> 
> Dont need a bunch of HDMI inputs - TV, bluray, xbox, and a spare. Would like to have Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Don't think I'd go with 9.1, but it'd be good to have the option.
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input and suggestions!



Denon X4300H on closeout. No brainer.


----------



## jerethemiah

jjackkrash said:


> Denon X4300H on closeout. No brainer.


Thanks. Doing research - I've keep going back and forth between Yamaha A6/700's and the Denon X3/4300's. But X4300 looks like -
for the money - keeps coming out on top. Good features, power, price, and room to grow. Sold.


----------



## spiketoo999

SR5012 seems to meet my needs at 7.2 but now Crutch has the SR6011 on sale for same price. Any reason not to go with the latter?


----------



## stefpoit

I'm upgrading from a toshiba 1080p set to a 4k hdr set (vizio p or oled). I currently have a sony str-dh540 5.1 receiver. Should I replace my receiver to run HDR signal? 5.1 setup is fine with me, no real interest in atmos. I know I can use ARC to feed audio back to the sony (it's ARC compatible), but as I understand it, some better audio formats (for ex dolby trueHD) are not available through the TV and won't be passed down to the receiver using ARC. 

I can get a good deal now on the pioneer 831, and have a buyer for the 540. Should I switch? Or would ARC be sufficient using the sony 540?


----------



## dalto

stefpoit said:


> Or would ARC be sufficient using the sony 540?


It depends how much you care about audio. What you can get through ARC is old school Dolby Digital and DTS. As you noted, if you want something like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD you need a new AVR capable of carrying your video signal. I would upgrade but a lot of people are fine with the sound produced by DD.


----------



## jdsmoothie

dalto said:


> It depends how much you care about audio. *What you can get through ARC is old school Dolby Digital and DTS.* As you noted, if you want something like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD you need a new AVR capable of carrying your video signal. I would upgrade but a lot of people are fine with the sound produced by DD.


Although stefpoit has no interest in Atmos, ARC can also pass DD+ which is what Netflix currently uses to pass Atmos audio.


----------



## legierk

Been awhile since I posted, but I am curious. What is the most processing channels on a processor/AVR available today? The most I can readily find is 11.2 (or 7.2.4). I am not concerned about the # of power amps. Nor am I concerned with "Why do you want more than 11.2?" Is there a manufacturer today that produces a product that will process more than 11.2 channels SIMULTANEOUSLY. TIA.


----------



## Koko Koko

Why u dont put pioneer sc lx 501 is not that good receiver

So if we compare between Yamaha 1060 and Pionner sc lx 501 

What is better ?


----------



## _CL

Does anyone know if there is a comparison of the major brands and what their strengths/weaknesses are? I considering shopping brands, picking one, then zeroing in on the right AVR in their lineup.

Stuff like
Brand x is known for great video processing
Brand y uses proprietary wireless speakers
Brand z is known for providing software updates years after you purchase the receiver
and many more...


----------



## pojojo

Is this the place to ask questions? Not sure after looking through some threads.

Just got some LS50s as surrounds to round out my 4.2 system. I'm currently using an old 1080p Denon (AVR 1912) hooked up via optical.

My question is, what is the best surround mode to use? My options seem to be: stereo, Dolby pl2 cinema, Dolby pro logic, dts neo: 6 cinema, multi ch stereo, and mono movie. Does each movie get mastered using a different surround sound profile, making this process a guessing game, or is one generally the best to set and forget (and least artificial/overly processed)? I'm guessing video games are a similar story. I naively assumed that I'd pop in a blu-ray and the appropriate track would be selected for me.

Second, being connected via optical, what am I missing out on sound wise? Is it worth it to upgrade if the amp section is fine?

Third, I find that I need to crank my surrounds up by like 10 DB in the receiver to get them to feel like they are doing anything. Otherwise, they are too low compared to the fronts and I can barely hear anything.

Finally, am I missing anything by not having a center channel? I don't feel the need for one, but you never see a 4.2 system, and I'm curious if just buying a center would simplify my options.
I am totally mystified by receivers and surround sound in general, so any help is greatly appreciated. I'll pass on any knowledge I obtain.


----------



## mathieuvp

very interesting, thanks all for your input


----------



## aHelpingHand

pojojo said:


> Is this the place to ask questions? Not sure after looking through some threads.
> 
> Just got some LS50s as surrounds to round out my 4.2 system. I'm currently using an old 1080p Denon (AVR 1912) hooked up via optical.
> 
> My question is, what is the best surround mode to use? My options seem to be: stereo, Dolby pl2 cinema, Dolby pro logic, dts neo: 6 cinema, multi ch stereo, and mono movie. Does each movie get mastered using a different surround sound profile, making this process a guessing game, or is one generally the best to set and forget (and least artificial/overly processed)? I'm guessing video games are a similar story. I naively assumed that I'd pop in a blu-ray and the appropriate track would be selected for me.
> 
> Second, being connected via optical, what am I missing out on sound wise? Is it worth it to upgrade if the amp section is fine?
> 
> Third, I find that I need to crank my surrounds up by like 10 DB in the receiver to get them to feel like they are doing anything. Otherwise, they are too low compared to the fronts and I can barely hear anything.
> 
> Finally, am I missing anything by not having a center channel? I don't feel the need for one, but you never see a 4.2 system, and I'm curious if just buying a center would simplify my options.
> I am totally mystified by receivers and surround sound in general, so any help is greatly appreciated. I'll pass on any knowledge I obtain.


This is the right place! 
With movies for your 1912 you really have 2 choices: Dolby Digital and DTS which are 2 different sound formats that most media come encoded with which brings me to:

Decoding. Your AVR receiver will decode what the media was recorded in...your AVR does DTS 96/24, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1, DTS-HD High Resolution, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD...

Movies do not come encoded with mono movie, 5 and/or 7 channel stereo or Neo cinema or music modes. These are DSP profiles used usually for 2 channel sources to envelop you with more sound than the left and right speaker.

You can use HDMI Arc instead of optical. Optical has limitations and can do up to 5.1 audio. Should you want more than That? HDMI is your huckleberry.

Never ass u me. DVD/Bluray discs have settings to choose which format you want to hear. I've found Denon's older DSP to be worthless. 

You should not have to crank your surrounds to 10db! What do you have your other speakers set to? I have my rear surrounds at + 3.5db and they are calibrated via my AVR.

I remember those older Denon's not having the best decoders or some limitation that greatly reduced rear surround output.

You are missing better dialogue, better imaging by cramming the center output into your left and right speakers. I feel the center is the heart of any HT. Timbre matching the front 3 channels is also important.

Mysteries solved



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## z.pelton1996

Is it worth it for $400 more to upgrade from the Denon x3300w to the Denon x4300h?


----------



## CruelInventions

z.pelton1996 said:


> Is it worth it for $400 more to upgrade from the Denon x3300w to the Denon x4300h?


Until someone else can chime in with more information, my recollection from looking at these several months ago.. you only really need to consider the x4300h if you plan on using the additional channels of amplification. 

There may have been one or two other things, but they've escaped my memory now.


----------



## z.pelton1996

CruelInventions said:


> Until someone else can chime in with more information, my recollection from looking at these several months ago.. you only really need to consider the x4300h if you plan on using the additional channels of amplification.
> 
> There may have been one or two other things, but they've escaped my memory now.


The upgradability was really the sole reason for me looking at the x4300h over the x3300. So it is really down to is 7.2.4 really that much better than 5.2.2


----------



## Lethean

What would you all recommend for an upgrade over a Yamaha RX-A840? It's working just fine but lacks Dolby Atmos. I'm using it to power some Infinity P363s and a Primus Center with a couple of Klipsch bookshelf speakers for front presence speakers (don't have a way to set up rear speakers easily) and a 12 inch sub.

Zone 2 is cool and all but I'm not interested in running wires from a different room. If there was a receiver with built in wireless capabilities for other speakers that would be nice.

I've never really used ARC. 

My main criteria - dual hdmi out as I have a projector, Dolby Atmos, 4K HDR and 3D pass through and built in phono would be nice. I was wondering if any entry level avr with Atmos would be fine but I also don't want to downgrade.

Does Atmos even matter with having P363s?


----------



## cpmusic

Thank you for this guide! I'll be looking for a new AV receiver within the next several months, and while I don't need anything near the top end of the market, I don't want to sell myself short. I've still got work to do, but this is a huge help.


----------



## nrd515

6volt said:


> I remember when you sent units back to the manufacturer for repair.
> 
> Those were the days...


That never seemed to end. I sold stereo equipment from 70 (From my bedroom at the age of 14) until I was 18, and sending a unit back to the manufacturer was something I tried to avoid at all costs. My own first receiver, an HK 330B went to HK, I think it was in California, for SIX MONTHS. By the time it came back, I had replaced it with something a lot better, so I sold it to a friend who was very happy with it. Other makes weren't a lot better at turning things around. It's a lot better today.


----------



## jkeener71

cpmusic said:


> Thank you for this guide! I'll be looking for a new AV receiver within the next several months, and while I don't need anything near the top end of the market, I don't want to sell myself short. I've still got work to do, but this is a huge help.


These days for close to (around) $500 gets you a lot of bang for your buck!


----------



## sywink

*7.1 Surround Sound and headphones*

One thing I didn't consider when buying my Denon amp was how to connect wireless analog headphones. I'm half deaf but my wife likes speakers so both sound sources are needed. I'm looking at an HDMI splitter between the AVR and the TV that carries through 7.1 sound (OREI HDS-102 1x2 Powered 1080P V1.4). That promises me 7.1 surround sound and ARC and a 2nd HDMI which I want to convert to either optical out or even RCA jacks. I have old Stennheiser analog headphones which I am quite happy with so would prefer not to move to bluetooth, which thus far I don't like. I'm also looking to do this on a 2nd system if and when it works. If I understand, that gives me sound to both speaker outputs and headphones whether my source is antenna, cable, Roku, Internet TV, DVR or anything else I can connect.


----------



## TomCruz

CruelInventions said:


> Until someone else can chime in with more information, my recollection from looking at these several months ago.. you only really need to consider the x4300h if you plan on using the additional channels of amplification.
> 
> There may have been one or two other things, but they've escaped my memory now.





z.pelton1996 said:


> The upgradability was really the sole reason for me looking at the x4300h over the x3300. So it is really down to is 7.2.4 really that much better than 5.2.2


Yes - spot on, some more details ..
With X4300H, you can power the FL/FR with a separate amp via pre-outs and this is the biggest advantage. The X4300h can power the remaining 9 channels.. a total of 11 channels. 
With X3300.. u might be able to just do total 7 as it only has 7 pre-amps. Thus there is the difference of 4 channels.


----------



## receiversender

*recommendation for a complete newb*

Thanks for the post but even after reading all of it I can't even begin to figure out what feature set I need. I just bought a house and the house has in-built speaker system. In my family room we have a samsung KS8500 and we plan to add a projector and home theatre at some point. The original owner left behind 3 speakers in front and 2 in ceiling + a sub woofer and a pre-amp. In addition we have 2 ceiling speakers in our living room and 2 speakers in the outside patio area. I do not plan to play something on all speakers at the same time and the speakers are pretty dated (rbhsound.com/mc6c.php) and I am not sure what the pre-amp (parasound/hca-750a] is even suppose to do given they have not left behind any receiver. In addition we have our own bose audio setup with 2 speakers and a subwoofer. 

Questions I have:

Q1) Assuming I am never going to play something on all speakers at the same time what kind of receiver do I need? 
Q2) Any way for me to utilize the existing pre-amp and the 2 extra bose speaker so I can have 7.1 instead of the 5.1 system?
Q3) Would you recommend just forgetting about the existing setup and upgrade the speakers too? I have never been able to get them to work so not sure how good or bad do they sound.

Given the above scenario can anyone recommend a receiver. We are primarily going to use it for movies playing on our TV and music from our phone (playing wirelessly from phone would be a plus for us). I would appreciate if people can recommend more than one receivers and pro con for each. Thanks for reading.


----------



## todaxy

I am upgrading to an Atmos set up so replacing my old Intera 80.2 with either an Anthem AVM 60 or a Marantz AV8802A. Reading through the reviews, they are both rated highly and have similar feature sets. The AVM 60 doesn't have a phono pre-amp but that's not necessarily a deal breaker. Does anyone have any insight as to which one is the better processor? e.g. sound quality, reliability, etc. I know, a pretty open ended question... They will be paired with some old Sunfire Cinema Grand amps. Or is there another one out there that I should consider too?

Thx, Tom


----------



## AV-NUT-99

I really like Anthem's ARC room correction. I have used the Anthem DV2 processor in my old theater with Sunfire amps and Paradigm Signature series speakers. Sold the house, kept the equipment. Current house does not have a theater but I have Anthem MRX 700 5ch system and ARC is still wonderful. I am getting ready to replace a customer's Marantz 9600 receiver with a new 8012 so will be able to get a good feel on how the latest Audyssey RC works. Now moving again and will probably choose an AVM 60 and my Sunfire amps in the new home, even though I am no longer an Anthem/Paradigm dealer.


----------



## toddwz

"Some AVRs feature a Zone 2 HDMI output instead of dual HDMI outputs, which would not work with a TV plus projector configuration."

Why won't a 2 zone AVR work? For a 2 zone AVR, must zone 2 have a different source from zone 1? If I want a dual HDMI output AVR, what should I search for? Thanks.


----------



## photovol777

*4 ohm speakers*

If you running 7 MTM 4 ohm mini towers like I am, make sure the receiver/amp is capable of driving the speakers without clipping.
Many of the upper tier receivers only list 4 ohm capability, for the front left and right speakers, sadly, so do your research diligently.


----------



## photovol777

*4 ohm speakers*

If you are running 7 MTM 4 ohm mini towers like I am, make sure the receiver/amp is capable of driving the speakers without clipping.
Many of the upper tier receivers only list 4 ohm capability, for the front left and right speakers, sadly, so do your research diligently.


----------



## JamHandMan

I'm really trying to find something to replace my Pioneer SC-05. My main criteria is Dialog clarity from the center channel. Looking at x4400 or x6400 from denon... (might wait for the 4500/6500 since it's right around the corner) Do these sound like a good equivalent? I'm upgrading to due to audio drops from the optical connection between my TV and receiver. (tried various cables, no luck) 

Vizio P55-C1 with Pioneer SC-05

Polk S35 Center
Polk RTI A1 FR/FL
NHT SuperZero 2.1 SL/SR 
Cambridge Soundworks P1005 Sub

Only doing 5.1 and it's apartment living so not too loud, except when I need it to blast over to the AC. 

Thanks.


----------



## lungs414

*Advice needed*

I have 2 onkyo 646's. Both have failed I believe the HDMI boards are bad. Need to replace them, Onkyo is no help and I will not buy another one. 

-1. room is a living room with sonance in wall speakers LCR 2 rear surrounds 2 overhead surrounds, and a Polk sub. I use mostly 4kTv directv box on a samsung 65" "The frame" tv, also have 4K apple tv for netflix. The receiver connects to the tv via an atlona HDMI over cat 6.

-2. Basement has decent older samsung UN55D800 tv with my sons xbox and hdtv directv.Same sonance rear in wall surrounds sub and Goldenear sound bar.

Looking to spend around $500 on each. Would consider doing 650 or so for one and 350-400 for the other.

Any recommendations ?

Thanks
Rich


----------



## CherylJosie

Are there any receivers with more than 11 channel processing? I am installing the wiring for 9.2.6 speakers but I need to keep the cost of the electronics minimized. The budget is squeaky tight.


----------



## jdsmoothie

CherylJosie said:


> Are there any receivers with more than 11 channel processing? I am installing the wiring for 9.2.6 speakers but I need to keep the cost of the electronics minimized. The budget is squeaky tight.


The Denon X8500H is the only major brand AVR that can process more than 11CH, with 13 on board amps and 13CH processing.


----------



## kbuzz

Hi all not sure if this is three right sub forum to post but can anyone recommend a standout used 5.1 receiver with built in tidal or lossless way to stream tidal.

Essentially I need a basic 5:1 receiver for a little used basement set up. Can anyone recommend a decent model that has hdmi and built in tidal lossless access. Yammy ? Marantz ? I’d Like to stay below $400 if possible and have not had great luck with onkyo in the past. 
Saw this one Yamaha https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XY9J6BQ/ref=emc_b_5_t but have no,idea as to reliability or SQ

Thanks in advance for any suggestions for stand out models....

Thanks


----------



## kdaniel

*HDR and Dolby vision from 1.4 HDMI receiver*

ADVICE NEEDED?

I have a Onkyo TX-NR3008 THX ULTRA 2 Plus receiver (from 2011) and a new Vizio P65-F1 quantum TV. I am driving Infiniti kappa 6ohm speakers. 
I really do not want to switch out my receiver just because the HDMI is 1.4 Unless I am hanging on to a dinosaur. I know I am missing out on WiFi connectivity with stuff like Apple play. My feelings won’t be hurt, real advice needed. 

I want to send out all the video content to my TV that my TV is capable of producing while sending all the audio content my receiver can produce from products like Apple TV, etc. what is the best product for me to do that with or best options?

That is all that I am trying to do. I did see 1 product by HDFURY “Vertex” but that seems to be overkill as they do a lot more than I need and is pricy. Their other product “AVR Key” which is less expensive has audio issues per them with sound drop out after a few hours.

Also what if I want to hook up more than two devices, like Apple TV , direct tv and my blue ray player?
It would sure be nice if Apple TV had two HDMI outputs, one for video and one for audio. 

Input from anyone would be helpful. Is there a better place for me to post this question for advice? I am sure many people have this same challenge 
Thank you
Ken


----------



## kdaniel

imagic said:


> With the holiday shopping season right around the corner, upgrade fever is sure to hit many AV enthusiasts. One of the key components in any serious system is an AV receiver, and this year's fall harvest looks to be a good one for anyone seeking better sound quality.
> 
> Here are 10 things to consider when you begin the search for the right AVR to suit your needs.
> 
> *1. Inputs and Outputs*
> 
> - As of 2016, most mainstream AVRs sport HDMI 2.0 inputs with HDCP 2.2 copy protection. This allows them to pass 4K/UHD and 3D content from the source device through the AVR to the display.
> 
> - To pass HDR10 content from Ultra HD Blu-ray and online providers with a compatible Roku or Chromecast streamer, you need an AVR that supports HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2.
> 
> - Try to determine if the HDMI ports operate at 10.2 or 18 Gbps; they should operate at 18 Gbps if possible.
> 
> - An HDMI input on the front panel is a plus if you plan to connect and disconnect a source on a regular basis—for example, a gaming console or camcorder.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer more than one HDMI output. With two HDMI outputs, you can feed a projector for nighttime viewing and a flat-panel TV in the same room for daytime viewing. Alternatively, you can send the second HDMI output to a TV in another room, though this will probably require a fiber-optic or coax HDMI cable for such a long run.
> 
> - Some AVRs feature a Zone 2 HDMI output instead of dual HDMI outputs, which would not work with a TV plus projector configuration.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer an asynchronous USB DAC, which lets you send digital-audio bitstreams from high-res audio source devices. This is important for audiophiles.
> 
> - If you have source devices that rely on optical or coaxial digital connections, make sure the AVR you choose has enough of these inputs to suit your needs.
> 
> *2. Power Rating*
> 
> - Power ratings for AVRs typically come with many caveats; for example, power ratings typically refer to only one or two channels being powered.
> 
> - The more channels you need to power at once, the lower the output of each channel. But it's extremely rare for a movie or music to demand equal power from all channels simultaneously, so this is less of an issue than it might seem.
> 
> - There's not a lot of difference between 100 watts and 120 watts, or 80 watts and 110 watts. All else being equal, small increases in power ratings do not represent much of an upgrade.
> 
> - Most AVR power ratings are specified with a speaker impedance of 8 ohms, which is very common among consumer speakers. If your speakers have a lower nominal impedance, they will draw more power from the amplifiers; be sure the AVRs you are considering can safely drive speakers with less than 8-ohm impedance.
> 
> - Many AVRs advertise power ratings into speaker impedances of 6 or even 4 ohms with very high THD (total harmonic distortion) figures; with THD, the lower, the better.
> 
> - The sensitivity of your speakers will have a greater impact on how loud your system can play than the power rating of an AVR.
> 
> - The power rating of an AVR does not need to match the power-handling spec of your speakers, but they should be in roughly the same ballpark. Under most conditions, the AVR is supplying no more than one or two watts to the speakers.
> 
> - For a hybrid high-performance solution, consider an AVR with preamp outs connected to a dedicated amplifier for the three front channels, which typically consume the most power. With some nine-channel AVRs, adding a 2-channel amp lets you take advantage of 11-channel processing.
> 
> *3. Immersive Audio*
> 
> - Support for immersive audio—that is, sound from speakers placed around and above the listening position—has become nearly ubiquitous in modern AVRs.
> 
> - You can get Dolby Atmos and DTS:X capability in very affordable AVRs.
> 
> - Auro 3D is a $199 paid add-on for only the upper-tier AVRs from Denon and Marantz. However, there isn't much content encoded in Auro 3D yet.
> 
> - Seriously consider a 9-channel AVR that gives you 5.1.4 channels (five main channels, one subwoofer channel, four overhead or height channels) if you want the full immersive effect. 5.1.2 is good, but 5.1.4 (and 7.1.4) systems can convey movement and ambience better.
> 
> *4. Number of Amplifier Channels*
> 
> - As a general rule, more amplifier channels will cost you more money. Therefore, it is important to decide how many speakers you need to power ahead of time.
> 
> - 5-channel AVRs are the most basic and typically the most affordable.
> 
> - 7-channel AVRs can handle Dolby Atmos and DTS:X in a 5.1.2 speaker configuration as well as traditional 7.1 speaker systems. Some 2014 and 2015 Denon and Marantz models can expand to nine channels using an external amp.
> 
> - 9-channel AVRs can handle 5.1.4 Atmos and DTS:X, which offers a superior immersive experience to systems with only two elevation channels.
> 
> - Some 9-channel AVRs also offer 11-channel processing, but you'll need an external 2-channel amp to take advantage of that.
> 
> - This year there are several 11-channel AVRs to choose from; these models can handle 7.1.4 Atmos/DTS:X or amplify multiple zones.
> *
> 5. Room Correction*
> 
> - Room correction—compensating for acoustical irregularities in a given room—is one of the most important features to consider when deciding between different brands of AVRs.
> 
> - Some companies, such as Yamaha, Pioneer, and Onkyo, use their own proprietary systems, while others, like Denon and Marantz, license sophisticated third-party solutions such as Audyssey and Dirac Live.
> 
> - There is a lot of variation in terms of capability between different room-correction systems.
> 
> - Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Dirac Live both have a reputation for being very effective.
> 
> - Some speaker and room combinations benefit from room correction more than others.
> 
> *6. Networking *
> 
> - Whether you need it or not, a 2016-model AVR is likely to have some sort of network connectivity.
> 
> - An Ethernet port is useful if you plan to locate the AVR far from a wireless router or use IP control in conjunction with a home-automation system. Also, a wired Ethernet connection assures the best possible performance for audio streamed from other devices on the network.
> 
> - Many AVRs use Wi-Fi to offer compatibility with Apple AirPlay, DTS Play-Fi, and other wireless AV systems.
> 
> - Another useful networking feature is playback from a DLNA server connected to your home network.
> 
> *7. Wireless and Multi-Room Audio Features*
> 
> - For many years, some AVRs have offered the ability to send audio and video to two or more separate rooms or "zones" in a home using dedicated hard-wired connections such as interconnect and speaker cables as well as analog video and even HDMI.
> 
> - These days, many AVRs come with some sort of networked-audio capabilities. Some brands only offer their own proprietary system such as Denon HEOS or Yamaha MusicCast, which work only with other compatible products from the same manufacturer. Other brands, like Pioneer and Onkyo, have adopted third-party platforms such as Google Cast and DTS Play-Fi.
> 
> - If you like to mix and match brands, the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem includes products from the most manufacturers.
> 
> - If you use Bluetooth, look for aptX technology, which ensures high-quality audio transmission.
> 
> - Some AVRs offer the option of streaming audio from cloud-based services.
> 
> *8. Analog Inputs and 2-Channel Audio*
> 
> - Unless you have a legacy video source, such as a LaserDisc player or VCR, analog video inputs, such as component or composite video, are completely unnecessary.
> 
> - If you have a collection of analog-audio sources, make sure there are enough analog-audio inputs to accommodate them on the AVRs you are considering.
> 
> - If you plan on listening to vinyl records, look for an AVR that offers a phono input, not all of them do. This does not apply if your turntable has a built-in pre-amp, or you are using a third party phono pre-amp.
> 
> *9. Remote and App-Based Control*
> 
> - Since AVRs are complex devices, they often come with remote controls that are stuffed with buttons.
> 
> - Many AVRs have included an RS-232 serial port for connection to home-automation systems from companies like Crestron, but this is being supplanted by IP control over your home's network.
> 
> - Control apps for phones and tablets are available from many AVR makers, but their functionality varies widely. If like to control things with a mobile device, you might want to consider how capable the app is.
> 
> - Look for an IR input if you plan to use a standard remote and house the AVR in a cabinet or closet.
> 
> *10. Budget and Recommendations*
> 
> - The key to shopping for an AVR is to set your budget first, determine how many speakers you plan to power, factor in what sources you intend to connect, and consider the kind of content you intend to consume—some folks are music-first and others use AVRs primarily for home cinema.
> 
> - In 2016, even affordable entry-level AVRs like Yamaha's RX-V481 ($400) and Pioneer's VSX-830-K ($400) offer full UHD/4K HDMI passthrough, room correction, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and multi-room audio. The Denon AVR-S720W ($480) even adds 5.1.2 Atmos and DTS:X to the mix for under five bills. Sony's STR-DN860 ($300) is a 7-channel model that sports a modern graphic user interface and streams from Spotify Connect, Deezer, Pandora, and TuneIn.
> 
> - Above the $500 price point, you'll find a lot of features crammed into 7-channel AVRs from various mainstream manufacturers. Denon's AVR-S920W ($580) offers Dolby Atmos 5.1.2, eight HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs, Audyssey MultEQ, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and much more.
> 
> - Between $1000 and $1500 MSRP, you start to see features like the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction found on the Marantz SR6011 ($1400). Yamaha's RX-A1060 ($1100) similarly offers seven channels of power and is packed with premium features like two separate HDMI zones and Yamaha's MusicCast wireless-audio system.
> 
> If you budget $1500 or more, you can expect to find AVRs with top-tier room correction, nine or more channels of amplification, multiple zones, more power, and overall better specs. Denon's AVR-X6300H ($2200) offers 11 amps, giving it the ability to drive a full Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 speaker system without any additional amplification. Pioneer's SC-LX901 ($3000) is another 11-amp option that claims its class-D amps can output twice as much peak power (all channels driven) as many competing AVRs. You'll also find an 11-channel option from Anthem in its MRX1120 model ($3500), which uses the highly effective Anthem Room Correction (ARC) system. Not to be outdone, Onkyo also has an 11-amp model, the TX-RZ3100 ($3200).
> 
> I'm sure that AVS Forum members have many opinions about all of this, so I invite you to share them in the comments. What are your most important considerations when shopping for an AVR? What models do you recommend at different price points?
> _
> Please do not click on the Quick Reply button at the bottom of this article, which will quote the entire article in your comment without you knowing it. Wading through the entire article in the comments is quite annoying! If you want to quote a portion of the article, click on the Quote button and delete everything that does not pertain to your comment. Otherwise, use the Quick Reply comment editor at the bottom of each page, which does not quote the original post. Thanks!_


Would one of these devices work so you can send the 4K video to the TV and the Audio to the receiver? Would it split a 4K Apple TV video and audio. I am still looking for a viable solution for my 1.4 hdmi THX Ultra receiver and my 4K Tv so I don’t have to buy a new receiver just because of the HDMI issue. 
Thx. Mono price had a bunch of reasonably priced spliters. Just not sure if they pass everything or if something is lost in translation. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21612


----------



## kdaniel

kdaniel said:


> ADVICE NEEDED?
> 
> I have a Onkyo TX-NR3008 THX ULTRA 2 Plus receiver (from 2011) and a new Vizio P65-F1 quantum TV. I am driving Infiniti kappa 6ohm speakers.
> I really do not want to switch out my receiver just because the HDMI is 1.4 Unless I am hanging on to a dinosaur. I know I am missing out on WiFi connectivity with stuff like Apple play. My feelings won’t be hurt, real advice needed.
> 
> I want to send out all the video content to my TV that my TV is capable of producing while sending all the audio content my receiver can produce from products like Apple TV, etc. what is the best product for me to do that with or best options?
> 
> That is all that I am trying to do. I did see 1 product by HDFURY “Vertex” but that seems to be overkill as they do a lot more than I need and is pricy. Their other product “AVR Key” which is less expensive has audio issues per them with sound drop out after a few hours.
> 
> Also what if I want to hook up more than two devices, like Apple TV , direct tv and my blue ray player?
> It would sure be nice if Apple TV had two HDMI outputs, one for video and one for audio.
> 
> Input from anyone would be helpful. Is there a better place for me to post this question for advice? I am sure many people have this same challenge
> Thank you
> Ken


Would one of these devices work so you can send the 4K video to the TV and the Audio to the receiver? Would it split a 4K Apple TV video and audio. I am still looking for a viable solution for my 1.4 hdmi THX Ultra receiver and my vizio tv. 
Thx. Mono price had a bunch of reasonably priced spliters. Just not sure if they pass everything or if something is lost in translation. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21612


----------



## akadoublej

kdaniel said:


> Would one of these devices work so you can send the 4K video to the TV and the Audio to the receiver? Would it split a 4K Apple TV video and audio. I am still looking for a viable solution for my 1.4 hdmi THX Ultra receiver and my vizio tv.
> Thx. Mono price had a bunch of reasonably priced spliters. Just not sure if they pass everything or if something is lost in translation.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21612


I don't know what happens if you try to send a 4K signal to a non 4K AVR. It might or might not work. 

This should definitely work as it extracts the audio and outputs via analog audio. I can't speak to sound quality or potential synch issues though.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15375


----------



## andydallas

Ok forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong place, but I think I'm at the right place

I am about to upgrade tvs and want to add audio for Dolby Atmos, I currently have a very good 5.1 in this room (living room) and it sounds like I would add some upshooting speakers to the front and have dolby atmos (but of course not a great dolby atmos)

I don't want to run the video through the receiver if at all possible because i am buying a tv with a X1 Extreme chipset for what should be very good upscaling, and am buying a Sony (because of physical size considerations 1080 receiver.

Can I simply plug ATV directly into port 3 of my TV, plug HDMI into the ARC HDMI on the tv going into the receiver..

I will set the ATV to native format so it lets the TV upscale 1080 content.

Am I going in the right direction,,I have read and read and think i have a basic idea how to set this up, but want input if I'm trying to do this right

Thanks for any help!

andy


----------



## MUDCAT45

andydallas said:


> Ok forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong place, but I think I'm at the right place
> 
> I am about to upgrade tvs and want to add audio for Dolby Atmos, I currently have a very good 5.1 in this room (living room) and it sounds like I would add some upshooting speakers to the front and have dolby atmos (but of course not a great dolby atmos)
> 
> I don't want to run the video through the receiver if at all possible because i am buying a tv with a X1 Extreme chipset for what should be very good upscaling, and am buying a Sony (because of physical size considerations 1080 receiver.
> 
> Can I simply plug ATV directly into port 3 of my TV, plug HDMI into the ARC HDMI on the tv going into the receiver..
> 
> I will set the ATV to native format so it lets the TV upscale 1080 content.
> 
> Am I going in the right direction,,I have read and read and think i have a basic idea how to set this up, but want input if I'm trying to do this right
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> andy


I have a Sony XBR900E. I had a Sony 1080 AVR in my system for a few weeks. The picture was not degraded i any way when going HDMI to AVR to TV. I avoid ARC if possible.


----------



## SaysNuts

*dialog clarity from the center channel*

Did you find something you liked that has awesome dialog clarity from the center channel? I'm starting to look in that direction as well.





JamHandMan said:


> I'm really trying to find something to replace my Pioneer SC-05. My main criteria is Dialog clarity from the center channel. Looking at x4400 or x6400 from denon... (might wait for the 4500/6500 since it's right around the corner) Do these sound like a good equivalent? I'm upgrading to due to audio drops from the optical connection between my TV and receiver. (tried various cables, no luck)
> 
> Vizio P55-C1 with Pioneer SC-05
> 
> Polk S35 Center
> Polk RTI A1 FR/FL
> NHT SuperZero 2.1 SL/SR
> Cambridge Soundworks P1005 Sub
> 
> Only doing 5.1 and it's apartment living so not too loud, except when I need it to blast over to the AC.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## JamHandMan

I picked the x8500 which I think was overkill and the either the others should be fine. I'm pretty satisfied with happy with the sound quality from this unit. Not sure if this information helps... Lol



SaysNuts said:


> Did you find something you liked that has awesome dialog clarity from the center channel? I'm starting to look in that direction as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JamHandMan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really trying to find something to replace my Pioneer SC-05. My main criteria is Dialog clarity from the center channel. Looking at x4400 or x6400 from denon... (might wait for the 4500/6500 since it's right around the corner) Do these sound like a good equivalent? I'm upgrading to due to audio drops from the optical connection between my TV and receiver. (tried various cables, no luck)
> 
> Vizio P55-C1 with Pioneer SC-05
> 
> Polk S35 Center
> Polk RTI A1 FR/FL
> NHT SuperZero 2.1 SL/SR
> Cambridge Soundworks P1005 Sub
> 
> Only doing 5.1 and it's apartment living so not too loud, except when I need it to blast over to the AC. /forum/images/smilies/tongue.gif
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...


----------



## OldTimer4

*Older Denon*

Is there a forum for older Denon AVR? Thanks.


----------



## RawPopTart

Question: what exactly is the practical difference between a receiver that's THX certified and one that isn't?

Specifically, I'm weighing the Onkyo TX-NR686 and the Onkyo TX-NR676. The specs seem to be virtually identical, except the 686 is THX approved and the 676 is not. There's a significant price difference between the two, but aside from that THX difference, I'm not seeing what would justify the cost gap.


----------



## blazar

I would at this point be strongly looking for Apple Airplay 2 and Apple Homekit Receiver certification. This really simplifies the experience of music playback as well as multizone playback / zoning. It can be tremendously useful features and it ensures being compatible with the ever improving homekit control experience.


----------



## jdsmoothie

OldTimer4 said:


> Is there a forum for older Denon AVR? Thanks.


There are Denon Owner's threads going back 10 years. In the main *Receivers, Amps, and Processors* forum, select the "Search this forum" button and enter your specific model of interest.


----------



## mayurbhatia

I'm looking at upgrading my old Onkyo-602 (?) . I'm running a simple 5.1 system and have no plans of going higher in the next few years. AVR is powering Martin Logan Motion 4i, Motion 8i and energy rears (can't remember the model number). PS4pro will be present in the future too. My sub is an older Yamaha that will be replaced by a SVS sub. 

I'm going to be upgrading my TV soon to a Sony X900F (55") and will want the following:
1. 4 HDMI inputs
2. 4k support
3. ACR support
4. Phono pre-amp (if possible). I do use an external phono preamp for my turntable, but wouldn't mind something built in. 

Price: Ideally $500-$750. 

Suggestions? Thinking of a Denon or a Marantaz ?


----------



## Joel H

kdaniel said:


> Would one of these devices work so you can send the 4K video to the TV and the Audio to the receiver? Would it split a 4K Apple TV video and audio. I am still looking for a viable solution for my 1.4 hdmi THX Ultra receiver and my vizio tv.
> Thx. Mono price had a bunch of reasonably priced spliters. Just not sure if they pass everything or if something is lost in translation.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15259
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21612


Did you get one of these splitters?

Does it work?

I have an old Onkyo 3007 that works great, except for a new TV.


----------



## Charles Swearington

Great points. The price of room correction technology is starting to become much more reasonable!


----------



## kdaniel

Joel H said:


> Did you get one of these splitters?
> 
> Does it work?
> 
> I have an old Onkyo 3007 that works great, except for a new TV.


I did not try it. I would still like to find a solution, it seems silly to buy a new receiver because of the HDMI. Right now I am running a separate HDMI from all units to the tv and then running an optical out of the tv back into the receiver. 
It’s irritating


----------



## Panson

kdaniel said:


> I did not try it. I would still like to find a solution, it seems silly to buy a new receiver because of the HDMI. Right now I am running a separate HDMI from all units to the tv and then running an optical out of the tv back into the receiver.
> It’s irritating


This guide for combining new and old may be helpful.

https://www.hifihunter.com/wp-conte...-surround-sound-setup-part-2/_index.html_gzip


----------



## vecinu

Since purchasing my receiver with HEOS I now *need* to have HEOS built-in, it's such a time saver.


----------



## kateyes

So I'm quite clueless about the 4K tech. I purchased my TV and AVR and quit researching. Need to upgrade now because I'd like a bigger tv and well a better picture and prices are low enough now, I can pick up a decent tv. (Although I haven't quite decided which to get.) 

I'd like to avoid buying a new AVR. I have a Yamaha rxv565 so Hdmi compatible. Upgrading to 4K tv. Obviously I want to run my sound through the AVR. Nothing else I have is 4K. I will probably upgrade my Apple TV to 4K. Doubt I will get a 4K player. When I connect equipment, do I run all through the TV and it upscales the HD signal to 4K? Is it the HDMI ARC that I use to get audio through my AVR? Or will the TV act as a passthrough if I only connect the AVR to the TV like my current setup?


----------



## audiovideochallenged

Hello guys I have a 13 x 17 x 8 home theater. Can't make up my mind about which receiver to buy between Denon AVR-x4500H or Marantz SR7012 (both close in prices with recent price-drops). I love both movies and music. I want to set up 7.2.4 speaker set up and will use my old Denon 3805 for the two extra channels for this set up. One additional feature that x-4500 has is an IMax enhanced. How critical is that feature to have? Could anyone help me decide? Thank you


----------



## Steve Sleeve

audiovideochallenged said:


> Hello guys I have a 13 x 17 x 8 home theater. Can't make up my mind about which receiver to buy between Denon AVR-x4500H or Marantz SR7012 (both close in prices with recent price-drops). I love both movies and music. I want to set up 7.2.4 speaker set up and will use my old Denon 3805 for the two extra channels for this set up. One additional feature that x-4500 has is an IMax enhanced. How critical is that feature to have? Could anyone help me decide? Thank you


I am in the exact same mindset as you. except I would rather deal with the 11.2 receiver (6400h) instead of amping two channels. The imax upgrade perplexes me too. There are only two titles out for Imax and they do have a partnership only with one studio: Paramount, so safe to say an Imax consideration is not really relevant however I like the larger video picture instead of a cropped one. The audio will use the standard dolby set up just fine it is really about the video for me but I figure by the time imax actually has content there will be 16K or something but I get the feeling we are not going to get much better image quality. 8K is not much different than 4k which is not really worth the cost over 1080p for me at least. I suppose if one killer release in imax comes out it would be worth it. The 6500 I was looking at dropped $100 in the last three days. I am going wait it out and start running atmos cables but not pull the receiver trigger until Imax causes drops in the non imax receivers or more manufacturers are cheaper for both. There is one you tube video where a guy pees his pants over the imax showing up on his Marantz but a super high cost to watch two nature videos ??


----------



## Transistorious

kdaniel said:


> I did not try it. I would still like to find a solution, it seems silly to buy a new receiver because of the HDMI. Right now I am running a separate HDMI from all units to the tv and then running an optical out of the tv back into the receiver.
> It’s irritating


Are you using the optical just to get surround sound from the local TV stations?


----------



## kdaniel

I am using optical to get all sound back into my receiver. HDMI out of Apple TV, direct tv, DVD player info tv. Optical from tv to Receiver for sound.


----------



## tatotiburon

hi guys, i'm upgrading from my old onkyo R680, i found the denon x3500 but now that i see that maybe it's to much for my needs, bassicaly i need a reciver for my pc, xbox one x/ps4/switch, a few retro consoles a media box and cable box for a new 4k tv, now that i have a xbox one x the reciever need to support HDR10, atmos, all the fancy stuff, my living room is not big (100"x160") and i still have the original onkyo speakers that came with the reciever.


What do you thing? should i stick with the denon or maybe i can get a cheaper option?


thanks


----------



## KD5MDK

tatotiburon said:


> hi guys, i'm upgrading from my old onkyo R680, i found the denon x3500 but now that i see that maybe it's to much for my needs, bassicaly i need a reciver for my pc, xbox one x/ps4/switch, a few retro consoles a media box and cable box for a new 4k tv, now that i have a xbox one x the reciever need to support HDR10, atmos, all the fancy stuff, my living room is not big (100"x160") and i still have the original onkyo speakers that came with the reciever.
> 
> 
> What do you thing? should i stick with the denon or maybe i can get a cheaper option?
> 
> 
> thanks


If you’re not too invested in it you could get a S940H and have very similar capabilities for less. Do you need legacy to HDMI upconversion or are you ok with having them use legacy connections to the TV?


----------



## tatotiburon

KD5MDK said:


> If you’re not too invested in it you could get a S940H and have very similar capabilities for less. *Do you need legacy to HDMI upconversion or are you ok with having them use legacy connections to the TV?*



you lost me in here


----------



## jdsmoothie

tatotiburon said:


> hi guys, i'm upgrading from my old onkyo R680, *i found the denon x3500 but now that i see that maybe it's to much for my needs*, bassicaly i need a reciver for my pc, xbox one x/ps4/switch, a few retro consoles a media box and cable box for a new 4k tv, now that i have a xbox one x the reciever need to support HDR10, atmos, all the fancy stuff, my living room is not big (100"x160") and i still have the original onkyo speakers that came with the reciever.
> 
> 
> What do you thing? should i stick with the denon or maybe i can get a cheaper option?
> 
> thanks


Money is always better spent upgrading speakers before upgrading the AVR. However, if you insist on upgrading the AVR first, review post 1 in the 2018 Denon AVR Owner's thread to see if there is a lower level model below the X3500H that will meet your requirements and in so doing, provide additional savings for upgrading to better quality speakers.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-r...eries-avr-owner-s-thread-faq-posts-1-8-a.html




tatotiburon said:


> you lost me in here


The lower models (eg. S940H) are no longer capable of doing component/composite video --> HDMI while the X3500H is able to do the conversion.


----------



## Jim Noble

I have an Onkyo TX-SR706 which has served me well, I have and I am keeping a 5.1 speaker setup that I am happy with.

The problem, of course, is 4K and HDMI. Right now my TV is a 2013 55" LG 3D set (which I never watch in 3D but which, BTW, has a fantastic picture for 2D content). The new TV is a Samsung 2019 75" Q90 that comes with the Samsung Quick Connect box. I have two other quick connect equipped Samsung TVs, one with the mini box from 2017, the other with the larger 2018 box. Neither of those sets, however, is meant to be used with an AVR.

It looks like the video passthrough to the TV via quick connect should be good. I don't need more than the four HDMI inputs it provides (TIVO, Apple TV4K, PS4, and 4K disc player).

The thing I like about the Onkyo is the Audyssey room calibration, which has worked well for me. My question is, if I connect the Samsung One Connect box to my receiver with an optical cable, will everything "just work"? I can fix audio lag (if present) using the Onkyo controls.


----------



## ponca50

*New stuff*

I an giving all old my old stuff to my son. Integra 8.0 ,blu ray and 70 inch 4 K TV 

That said I would like a plan for all new equipment 

I have great older 5-1 speakers that I could expand .So need Receiver,blu ray and tv... Thinking Samsung Q9 or Q8. what is good-best blu ray player and 

receiver.... could up grade speaker number or system if needed... So what is the best integrated total new system ???


----------



## izzie

tatotiburon said:


> hi guys, i'm upgrading from my old onkyo R680, i found the denon x3500 but now that i see that maybe it's to much for my needs, bassicaly i need a reciver for my pc, xbox one x/ps4/switch, a few retro consoles a media box and cable box for a new 4k tv, now that i have a xbox one x the reciever need to support HDR10, atmos, all the fancy stuff, my living room is not big (100"x160") and i still have the original onkyo speakers that came with the reciever.
> 
> 
> What do you thing? should i stick with the denon or maybe i can get a cheaper option?
> 
> 
> thanks


I believe most average users need something similar. A bunch of HDMI's with 4k, and 7.2 is more than enough. I'm in that boat of the non-expert who wants decent sound in my living room. The AVR-S940H mentioned here sounds like a good fit at a reasonable price. Any reason to avoid it? Better alternatives at a similar price point?

What I'd really like is something that doesn't look like the same receiver I had 20 years ago. I would prefer something more modern looking even if I was settling for 5.1, fewer HDMI's, no HDR, and paying a little more. Any suggestions on something more aesthetically pleasing? Older, used, or refurbs are fine, although that might be tough needing 4k compatibility.


----------



## Mauser

Im looking at Costcos Yamaha TSR-7850, and the Denon AVRS750H, Im only going to be running a 5.1 set up, but I dont mind paying extra in case I add on. My LCD is a Sony x930e. I have the Sony STR DH770, but I think its starting to show it's age, any recommendations would be welcome, thanks.


----------



## 9420200

Hey,

My "Onkyo HT-S7805" system only support 3 "HDCP 2.2" HDMI ports out of 7.. Can I connect a seperate HDMI Switch equipment (which is HDCP 2.2 also) to one of these ports on the receiver so ALL things in the house can connect with HDCP 2.2 via that switcher? Or it will mess up the receiver when I switch signals or some other problems?

Sorry if this is a newbie question here, but I'm still at beginner level  (and didn't used a HDMI switch yet..)

Thank You for the help!


----------



## norsehorse45

This is a good post, thanks.


----------



## Railfan 4449

I am looking for recommendations a new AV receiver. I would like to spend about $750.

My current system is:
Onyko NR609 receiver, Two main speakers, Infinity Studio Monitor 150, Q Acoustics 3090ci center speaker, Polk 12” powered subwoofer, Two cheap surround speakers, LG OLED 55” TV display, Oppo UDP-203 4K disk player, Apple TV 4K, Amazon 4K, and DirecTV

What I am looking for in a new receiver is:
Dolby Atmos, etc., 7.1 ARC (eARC?), 5 or more HDMI inputs18 Gbps or better, Airplay 2, True 4K pass through, FM radio

I watch movies, TV, and listen to music (mostly classical, light Jazz, rock, and, currently Christmas). Movies are Blu-ray or 4K disks played from the Oppo or streaming. I plan on adding new surround speakers some time next year. As my wife and I are getting older now our ears aren’t as good as they used to be, but we still enjoy good sound!

I have been looking at the Marantz SR5013 at $699 and am also starting to look at Denons in the less than $750 price range, although I have found a Denon X4500H for about $900 as an open box sale. Is it worth expanding my budget to that or is this overkill? Although I would like to purchase something soon, I could wait a couple of months if new models would be coming out and I could save money on this year’s (last year’s) models.

What is recommend? Thank you.


----------



## mdildine

Railfan 4449 said:


> I am looking for recommendations a new AV receiver. I would like to spend about $750.
> 
> My current system is:
> Onyko NR609 receiver, Two main speakers, Infinity Studio Monitor 150, Q Acoustics 3090ci center speaker, Polk 12” powered subwoofer, Two cheap surround speakers, LG OLED 55” TV display, Oppo UDP-203 4K disk player, Apple TV 4K, Amazon 4K, and DirecTV
> 
> What I am looking for in a new receiver is:
> Dolby Atmos, etc., 7.1 ARC (eARC?), 5 or more HDMI inputs18 Gbps or better, Airplay 2, True 4K pass through, FM radio
> 
> I watch movies, TV, and listen to music (mostly classical, light Jazz, rock, and, currently Christmas). Movies are Blu-ray or 4K disks played from the Oppo or streaming. I plan on adding new surround speakers some time next year. As my wife and I are getting older now our ears aren’t as good as they used to be, but we still enjoy good sound!
> 
> I have been looking at the Marantz SR5013 at $699 and am also starting to look at Denons in the less than $750 price range, although I have found a Denon X4500H for about $900 as an open box sale. Is it worth expanding my budget to that or is this overkill? Although I would like to purchase something soon, I could wait a couple of months if new models would be coming out and I could save money on this year’s (last year’s) models.
> 
> What is recommend? Thank you.


I have the Older version Marantz Sr 5012 and have been very happy with it. That seems like a good price for a lot of features.


----------



## PowayDevil

Hey Folks -
I'm putting in a theater system at our final home, so expense is not necessarily an issue. Specifically, I'm wondering if anyone has opinions on choosing between Yamaha RX-3080 vs. RX-1080. My struggle is the person installing it for me is saying there is no need to spend additional $$ for the RX-3080. My primary use will be Movies (recorded and DVD) and rock 'n roll concerts on record, aside from satellite tv. I'm an old rocker who always went by the more power the better. My installer keeps telling me that power doesn't matter anymore, which still has me scratching my head. The main difference I see between these two amps are RX-3080 has dual type DACs and more power. I always thought that more power meant you could get deep, strong sound at lower volume levels - which reduces distortion. I also read a comparison that said RX-1080 could have an overheating issue.

So simple question is why would anyone want the RX-1080 over the RX-3080?
Thank you,
Curious if I'm not in the know.


----------



## Harvey Sokoloff

*configuration using HDMI*

Devices: Cable STB, Samsung 4K TV, Samsung Blu-ray, Onkyo 656 AVR. All devices use HDMI and are CEC compatible. Both the TV and AVR have enough inputs via HDMI and the TV has ARC out.
Question: Is it better to input all devices into the AVR, then a single HDMI out to the TV, or input all devices into the TV, then out via ARC to the AVR? I've tried both ways and the issue is CEC. Everything works fine one day, and the next day no audio. Just when I think I've got it right, no audio. Disconnect, then reconnect by the other option and same thing: one day everything works, the next day, no audio. Help, I have no hair left to pull out!


----------



## C J

Question for the board...search function has yet to yield a result, if there is a thread please post the link....


My question is this..My current set up of Klipsch RP 280FA, 450CA adn in ceiling surrounds is being powered off of my Marantz 7011. My local dealer has been selling the benefits of buying a seperate amplifier to run my front channels. It is my understanding that the 7011 is a decent receiver, and I question if the additional money of a separate amplifier will be noticeable? Will the increase in performance be worth it for the money?


Possible Amps:Outlaw or Monolith. 



How does the 7011 compare to a separate amplifier?


TIA


----------



## noah katz

For ceiling speakers, it's *extremely* unlikely that there's any benefit whatsoever.

I'd get a new dealer.

But if he'll let you trial it, go ahead and see for yourself; if I'm right, you can rest easy, and he'll have had his time wasted deservedly.





C J said:


> Question for the board...search function has yet to yield a result, if there is a thread please post the link....
> 
> 
> My question is this..My current set up of Klipsch RP 280FA, 450CA adn in ceiling surrounds is being powered off of my Marantz 7011. My local dealer has been selling the benefits of buying a seperate amplifier to run my front channels. It is my understanding that the 7011 is a decent receiver, and I question if the additional money of a separate amplifier will be noticeable? Will the increase in performance be worth it for the money?
> 
> 
> Possible Amps:Outlaw or Monolith.
> 
> 
> 
> How does the 7011 compare to a separate amplifier?
> 
> 
> TIA


----------



## C J

Harvey Sokoloff said:


> Devices: Cable STB, Samsung 4K TV, Samsung Blu-ray, Onkyo 656 AVR. All devices use HDMI and are CEC compatible. Both the TV and AVR have enough inputs via HDMI and the TV has ARC out.
> Question: Is it better to input all devices into the AVR, then a single HDMI out to the TV, or input all devices into the TV, then out via ARC to the AVR? I've tried both ways and the issue is CEC. Everything works fine one day, and the next day no audio. Just when I think I've got it right, no audio. Disconnect, then reconnect by the other option and same thing: one day everything works, the next day, no audio. Help, I have no hair left to pull out!



I use one HDMI cable run to the tv, everything else to the Marantz 7011, and have zero handshake issues. I think a lot of handshake problems can be traced to the TV, not the receiver or other devices, as my parents and friend both have the same handshake loss issues with their OLEDs


----------



## 3pinballs

*What Atmos Receiver to buy*

Disclosure - I'm not an Audiophile just been reading for tips over the years. kind of been adding to my system and need advice on delete/keep a pair of speakers and adding a *7 channel Atmos receiver, 9 Channel *seems expensive, but maybe I'll bite the bullet.

Hello everyone. Here's what I currently have in my basement room ( I'll attach some pics)

- Listening area is 14 feet wide x 18 Ft long - where back of couch hits wall
- All Def Tech - Pro Center 1000, 2 BP-8060 Towers - w/ Atmos A60's (not connected - yet), 2 side BP1.2x Bipolar and 2 rears. (Note in pic the Onkyos mounted on front wall on sides of screen, those are
disconnected and glad I upgraded from the home theater in a box setup)

- Espon 3020 projector - might upgrade years down line with better pic technology
- Onkyo HT - S5600
- Oppo BDP-103 - Keeping this and I only have Blu Rays, no 4K stuff

I was going to get rear Atmos speakers, but someone told me with the small room that the front Atmos is fine enough in the room because If I add them and keep current setup 7, plus atmos then 2 rear atmos then I'm up to a 11 channel which is crazy expensive. I'm looking to spend about 500 to 600 on a receiver, if I can spend less than 500 that would be awesome

What do I do - Should I get rid of the 2 side Bipolar BP speakers, then I can hook up Atmos A60 speakers keeping it a 7 channel (cheaper), or keep and add the 2 A60, making it a 9 channel (pricier).

You will notice the right side BP speaker is mounted to ceiling where the other ones are above ear level, had no choice and don't know if that makes a huge difference - no chance of having floor stand with dogs.

Whats a good receiver that is easy to use? Does a receiver make the sound better with amps or whatever.

This is only used for watching TV/movies. However, I have floor speakers in 3 rooms in the basement that I no longer use and would like to as You'll see my Niles switch to turn whatever room on. Having Multicast wifi to play music in my Gym through new Receiver would be great.

Is Yamaha Aventage a great way to go as I saw video on Calibration. There are so many options for each mfgr it makes me dizzy.

thanks everyone - Tony D


----------



## 3pinballs

aHelpingHand said:


> This is the right place!
> With movies for your 1912 you really have 2 choices: Dolby Digital and DTS which are 2 different sound formats that most media come encoded with which brings me to:
> 
> Decoding. Your AVR receiver will decode what the media was recorded in...your AVR does DTS 96/24, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1, DTS-HD High Resolution, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD...
> 
> Movies do not come encoded with mono movie, 5 and/or 7 channel stereo or Neo cinema or music modes. These are DSP profiles used usually for 2 channel sources to envelop you with more sound than the left and right speaker.
> 
> You can use HDMI Arc instead of optical. Optical has limitations and can do up to 5.1 audio. Should you want more than That? HDMI is your huckleberry.
> 
> Never ass u me. DVD/Bluray discs have settings to choose which format you want to hear. I've found Denon's older DSP to be worthless.
> 
> You should not have to crank your surrounds to 10db! What do you have your other speakers set to? I have my rear surrounds at + 3.5db and they are calibrated via my AVR.
> 
> I remember those older Denon's not having the best decoders or some limitation that greatly reduced rear surround output.
> 
> You are missing better dialogue, better imaging by cramming the center output into your left and right speakers. I feel the center is the heart of any HT. Timbre matching the front 3 channels is also important.
> 
> Mysteries solved
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I'm a Newbie, 1/2 way thru this thread as I'm looking to get a new 7 or 9CH AVR soon, and just love the info that I'm reading...This particularly was a great reply.


----------



## ronenza

Advice please :
Regarding A/V Receiver ?
There is lots of excellent recivers on the market to choose .
All of them and especially at their top level are at the same price and quality. 
But I don't understand the fact that some manufacturers sell Amps + Processors (A/V) at very high price ABOVE that "normal" line of receivers .
(Manufacturers like Mcintosh - Mark Levinson and so on )

Is High End devices really "worth" paying so much ?
Is their sound so much better ?
Thanks.


----------



## subwayfox

Are there any "entry level" HDMI 2.1 AVR's available right now? I currently do not own an AVR.
What is the cheapest HDMI 2.1 AVR I can get right now?

I currently have a 42'' (non-4k TV)
And two Zenith Allego 4000 speakers from the 1970s I just got from my dads basement. 

At most I would want to set up a set of 5.1 speakers around me. 

I was looking at buying an opened box RX-V385 for $200 and a news post said it has HDMI 2.1 but the max. transmission bit rate around 20 (Gbit/s) but from what I am reading the full HDMI spec. would be 48.0 (Gbit/s) So it sounds it is NOT 100% HDMI compliant..... 

I am asking because I am concerned that RX-V385 will not support the entire HDMI 2.1 spec. and when I upgrade my TV and purchased a Playstation5 I will have to buy a better AVR at that time as well.


----------



## teetertotter

My opinion/suggestion,

https://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/receivers


----------



## Michael Enright

*Dead Receiver, what are my options?*

I have a cable box and HD BluRay as sources, and a Sony 55" 4K AndroidTV. We like YouTube and Netflix and we can get them either from the cable box or the TV itself. Previously we used a Harmony remote to control the system. When we got the TV it replaced a plasma monitor. As a result the way we built the system was with the Denon 3808CI as aide to the Harmony remote, and the only input to the TV was from the AVR. An optical cable conveyed the audio from the TV to the AVR when we wanted to use it for YouTube. 

After changing the cable box, something went wrong and the Sony TV lost the plot. When ever we changed the "source" to the TV the Harmony commands that were supposed to switch back to anything else at the source would fail to switch the video. But we just cut back on using the Sony TV as a source because it duplicated what the new cable box could do.

Now that the AVR is dead, we are literally dying. We have been forced to connect stuff to the TV and use its built-in speakers. It still gets confused if we try to use the TV for YouTube. I think what is wrong is that there doesn't seem to be a direct command in the Sony's vocabulary for directly selecting some source. Also if you go to the internal source to use an app like Netflix, you *are* on the last input you were on. For example I had to unscramble this omelette a couple of hours ago. It was on input-1 and input-1 was what I wanted to be on, but the TV continued to display its home screen instead of the cable box. I had to cycle it around through the other 5 connections back to input 1 (4 inputs plus mirroring and terrestrial TV).

The next move is to get something hooked up so that we are using the Zu Omen tower speakers again. I have looked at the Denon AVR-S750H and it looks like a decent choice based on specs. To be honest, the Yamaha RX-V485BL could also handle this setup it seems to me. I also like the fact that there's a huge store down the road that has these and several other options, which I could just go and get.

After getting an AVR I can re-tackle the problem of controlling the TV. Should the TV have the feeds come in to it and ARC to the receiver? Will I need to disable CEC?

I think the main focus of this question should be the AVR since that's the thread we're in.


----------



## rawimpact

auronihilist said:


> Excellent post. As always, Mark.


Great reference - I just wished there was some more information on speaker resistance when purchasing a receiver.


----------



## Tany_Stark

eARC too is a feature to choose one, I think.


----------



## TomB

So, have a pretty old setup, with B&O products. Beosystem 3, and surround sound speakers from B&O (4000's, 6000's, and decent center) with a decent (but old) Velodyne subwoofer. The Beosystem does a pretty good job of providing multiple inputs to my one display output, switching pretty seamlessly. Am occasionally experiencing HDCP issues, though, with the Beosystem being pretty old, and starting to think I need to look at 4K options, which the Beosystem does not support. So, lots of great AV receivers out there, I think most will do the same seamless input switching/controlling, and perhaps provide an option for a single remote... Am starting to review this Forum, was a strong supporter back in the early HD days (for those of you that can remember that far back), which I expect to be a gold mine of info, but looking for a good 'intro' to the current state of the technology. Am retired now, so not interested in spending the thousands I spent on my B&O setup, but would like to preserve my speaker setup while upgrading to a decent AV Receiver and 4K (8K?) display/TV. My understanding is I just need a line out from the receiver to my 'powered' speakers. Since my sources will all likely be external (STB, Roku, Blu-Ray) don't particularly need a 'smart' TV, but if there is a good summary type discussion of receivers and the technology I'd start researching that. Have a contractor in the DFW area that does B&O so can probably task them with implementing a shift away from the Beosystem, just want to be smarter before I go talk to them.... Thanks in advance for any insight into the basics of the current tech.


----------



## Vikram Iyengar

I've read a few reviews talking about Marantz having a warm sound or "house" sound. True? I've also read a few reviews saying the Sony STR-DN1080, which I own, is "punchy" or "bright." True?

I ask because I'm using the Sony for 2ch music and do find the sound bright. But maybe it is the speakers or my room. Would buying the Marantz PM700n indeed add warmth to music?


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## Ryan Statz

Vikram Iyengar said:


> I've read a few reviews talking about Marantz having a warm sound or "house" sound. True? I've also read a few reviews saying the Sony STR-DN1080, which I own, is "punchy" or "bright." True?
> 
> I ask because I'm using the Sony for 2ch music and do find the sound bright. But maybe it is the speakers or my room. Would buying the Marantz PM700n indeed add warmth to music?


You wouldn't be able to use that Marantz as an AVR since it has no HDMI input/outputs, so I would look at the NR1200 instead if you're set on the idea of a Marantz. Or if you don't care about keeping up with the proverbial Joneses, an older SR5011/12/13 or 6011/12/13 model would suffice. 

I'm not sure about whether a Solid State amp can be "warm" or "bright", but I have read that Denon and Marantz have a "darker" sound to them. I think it's different if you're talking about a Tube amp, though (my understanding is that they are characteristically "warm"). I think a lot of the warmth/brightness comes from the actual speakers more than anything else. If the Sony does in fact have a brighter sound, you can counter that with a warmer speaker to nudge it towards neutral. Same thing with an amp that sounds warmer - you counter it with a brighter speaker. I could be wrong about all of this, though. 

I'd ask in the Speakers forums for recs on warm-sounding speakers within your budget. You could even take a peek at speakers with AMT ribbon tweeters - those are said to have all of the detail without the harshness.


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## Vikram Iyengar

Ryan Statz said:


> You wouldn't be able to use that Marantz as an AVR since it has no HDMI input/outputs, so I would look at the NR1200 instead if you're set on the idea of a Marantz. Or if you don't care about keeping up with the proverbial Joneses, an older SR5011/12/13 or 6011/12/13 model would suffice.
> 
> I'm not sure about whether a Solid State amp can be "warm" or "bright", but I have read that Denon and Marantz have a "darker" sound to them. I think it's different if you're talking about a Tube amp, though (my understanding is that they are characteristically "warm"). I think a lot of the warmth/brightness comes from the actual speakers more than anything else. If the Sony does in fact have a brighter sound, you can counter that with a warmer speaker to nudge it towards neutral. Same thing with an amp that sounds warmer - you counter it with a brighter speaker. I could be wrong about all of this, though.
> 
> I'd ask in the Speakers forums for recs on warm-sounding speakers within your budget. You could even take a peek at speakers with AMT ribbon tweeters - those are said to have all of the detail without the harshness.


Thanks Ryan, would the optical connection from TV to the PM7000n not work for 2ch HT? I'm thinking PM7000n instead of the NR1200 for the larger transformer the PM7000N has, which may be warmer for music? (More power for my 4 ohm speakers). Thanks


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## Ryan Statz

Vikram Iyengar said:


> Thanks Ryan, would the optical connection from TV to the PM7000n not work for 2ch HT?


Oh, right - absolutely, yes. Did not think of/see that! Looking just now, the first optical in slot literally says "TV" haha



Vikram Iyengar said:


> I'm thinking PM7000n instead of the NR1200 for the larger transformer the PM7000N has, which may be warmer for music? (More power for my 4 ohm speakers). Thanks


I don't have the knowledge to say whether its transformer translates to a warmer sound, but I say go for it if you are getting it from a source with a good return policy in case you don't like it at all. Marantz is pretty solid, I love my SR6014.


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## Bouldercroft

I hope this is appropriate place to ask...
I've recently upgraded my screen from a 2000-era Pioneer plasma which could only display 720p to an LG CX OLED which can do 4K HDR. My question is what else to I need to upgrade? From what I can tell looking at old spec sheets, my Denon AVR-1912 will have to go as it was capable of 3D pass through on HDMI but it doesn't look like it will handle 4K HDR. Is that true or will it be ok and the screen will still get what it needs? If I'm changing the AVR, I'm looking at the Denon AVR-X1600H or S960H (I can't really see much difference in spec). I'm also thinking I should replace the HDMI cable from the AVR to the screen with something newer, and maybe an active cable since it's a ~25ft run. In time I'll replace the Apple TV with one that does 4K but the model on sale now is from 2017, so I'm expecting it to be replaced soon.

Is there anything I'm missing that will stop me getting the most from my new screen or is the AVR the place to start?


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## bobby2478

Are there any moderately priced receivers that support uncompressed 8k HDMI 2.1 (48 gbps)? It appears Yamaha RX-V4A after upgrade will only support 24 gbps meaning they won't support uncompressed 8k video.

Sounds more and more like I should probably just wait until the HDMI 2.1 bug dust settles and we have a better idea what these "fixes" will do for models like RX-V4A and others. My main concern is getting something that will natively support 4k/120 and 8k/60 VRR pass thru across all HDMI inputs and outputs for future proofing. I don't have 8k or 4k/120 needs now, but if I upgrade down the road and need it I would like to not have to upgrade my AVR all over again. And all I really need is 5.1 where all HDMI inputs are truly HDMI 2.1 compliant (meaning they support 8k/60 at 48 gbps) for around $500. Models like RX-V4A would be perfect if their "fix" didn't specifically call out that it only supports 8k/60B (compressed).


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## Worf

None of the chips can do 48gbps right now. At best they are 40gbps. If you must have 48gbps you will likely have to wait a few years until they come out at your price point - it may take a year or more for them to have support at the high end, and maybe a year or two after that filter to the lower end models.


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## bobby2478

Interestingly, I found this thread about a new Denon AVR-760H receiver that's for sale at Costco that is a new 2021 AVR with 3 HDMI 2.1 inputs that appear to be all 40 gbps and fully work (no need to be "fixed" like the 2020 receivers), and it's a reasonably priced 7.2 AVR for $440. Looks like everything I was looking for as 40 gbps should be enough to handle 8k/60 which will be good for tv/streaming/movies in 8k which was most of what i was concerned about.

(22) DENON AVR-S760H | AVS Forum


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## isuguy1234

Is there a denon wholesaler here in these forums that people work with? Looking at the x4700


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## coyote-1

I’m shopping for one right now. Mine is Denon AVR-X3300W, and I’m incredibly happy with it. It will continue to be my primary unit. Heck, it has two separate HD zones! How cool is that?

The problem, if such a first-world problem can be considered a problem, is that I want to expand my smart home setup. I have Alexa as well as other systems running things, and it’s very cool. At this time the X3300W’s second audio zone is servicing two rooms, the dining room and the basement, via another amp. And that amp is very limited; to service those two rooms, I am manually connecting and disconnecting speaker cables. I was looking at a manual speaker switch, but that old amp seems to be on its last legs so I don’t want to spend $35 if the amp will die soon anyway.

My vision is for another network-addressable multi-zone amp to serve as an audio distribution system. So that when I say “Alexa, dinner jazz” it not only puts the dining room lights on and powers up Zone2 on the 3300 and chooses the online music source - but also powers up the second amp and chooses the specific zone I need and turns up the speakers in that zone appropriately.

I’ve looked at used Onkyo, but they seem to have consistent problems with a particular chip. And used Denon multi-zone amps ain’t cheap. I don’t need the hdmi, but I do need network addressable multi zone.

any suggestions?


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## TomCruz

coyote-1 said:


> I’m shopping for one right now. Mine is Denon AVR-X3300W, and I’m incredibly happy with it. It will continue to be my primary unit. Heck, it has two separate HD zones! How cool is that?
> 
> The problem, if such a first-world problem can be considered a problem, is that I want to expand my smart home setup. I have Alexa as well as other systems running things, and it’s very cool. At this time the X3300W’s second audio zone is servicing two rooms, the dining room and the basement, via another amp. And that amp is very limited; to service those two rooms, I am manually connecting and disconnecting speaker cables. I was looking at a manual speaker switch, but that old amp seems to be on its last legs so I don’t want to spend $35 if the amp will die soon anyway.
> 
> My vision is for another network-addressable multi-zone amp to serve as an audio distribution system. So that when I say “Alexa, dinner jazz” it not only puts the dining room lights on and powers up Zone2 on the 3300 and chooses the online music source - but also powers up the second amp and chooses the specific zone I need and turns up the speakers in that zone appropriately.
> 
> I’ve looked at used Onkyo, but they seem to have consistent problems with a particular chip. And used Denon multi-zone amps ain’t cheap. I don’t need the hdmi, but I do need network addressable multi zone.
> 
> any suggestions?


For speakers you want to command to that level, a multi-zone receiver is not probably not the best as you will need to run speaker cables everywhere, besides it only works in direct mode.
Maybe HEOS speakers or similar that have built in amplification and use wifi for signal


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## coyote-1

Actually I have an amp coming in tomorrow, a Denon AVR-X3000. It’s used and needs to be tested, but if it works then I’m in business. And I have speaker cables in place for the dining room and backyard. I want to run a pair to the downstairs bathroom (speakers will be hidden under the vanity), and the X3000 has two HDMI outs so I can take one of those to the TV in the exercise room and have that play music if we want - or indeed, play any of the video or audio sources that come into either receiver.

It was very inexpensive. I’m hoping it’ll work out. I’ve already done the thing with Alexa where I can say “alexa, center channel delete” and my system will turn that channel all the way down.

the price of HEOS is more than I’m willing to spend, knowing I can get to what I want in other ways.


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## ROSSO Z

Suggestions for an AVR to drive Ohm Walsh 3000 Talls in a 2.0 setup. They seem to like power. Or maybe a different approach? Currently running a Denon AVR 5308CI not upgraded.

Any comments appreciated. Budget is pretty big.


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## thematic

i just bought Denon X1700H and would like to ask a few questions
1. is there any way to lower standby power consumption? my unit uses around 10W when standby
2. my room has 2 different display, 1 is my TV and the other is a projector. however the PJ is projecting to a different side of the wall. is there any way to "move" the speaker config to support both displays? (the viewer location is still the same just the direction is different). i don't mind using 2.1 for the TV as the center speaker need to be moved manually.
3. any "newbie" guide out there? this is my first receiver. the basic setup is quite easy, but i don't know how to setup the sound etc
4. does cable matters? i'm using standard cable from Yamaha's speaker also bought some cheap 16 AWG cable. i'm aware there's debate about cable price vs sound quality.

my speakers is :

Polk S20 as front speakers
Yamaha NS-PA150 as other surround (including Atmos) + center
Polk HTS 12 for the woofer

Thank you


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## teachsac

thematic said:


> i just bought Denon X1700H and would like to ask a few questions
> 1. is there any way to lower standby power consumption? my unit uses around 10W when standby
> 2. my room has 2 different display, 1 is my TV and the other is a projector. however the PJ is projecting to a different side of the wall. is there any way to "move" the speaker config to support both displays? (the viewer location is still the same just the direction is different). i don't mind using 2.1 for the TV as the center speaker need to be moved manually.
> 3. any "newbie" guide out there? this is my first receiver. the basic setup is quite easy, but i don't know how to setup the sound etc
> 4. does cable matters? i'm using standard cable from Yamaha's speaker also bought some cheap 16 AWG cable. i'm aware there's debate about cable price vs sound quality.
> 
> my speakers is :
> 
> Polk S20 as front speakers
> Yamaha NS-PA150 as other surround (including Atmos) + center
> Polk HTS 12 for the woofer
> 
> Thank you


Owner's thread for your model is here. Start with the first post.


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## Lefluer124

Hi everyone,

I was hoping for some input from yall. I have an old yamaha avantage RX-A550BL that im looking to upgrade. My current set up is:
65in lg C1- 2 
klipsch rp450 center
RP-280F left and right 
R-120SW sub
klipsh bookshelfs for rears, no idea model number but they were pretty cheap.

Ive been looking at the a4a or the denon 3700. I have a series x and would say my usasge is pretty evenly split between playing games, streaming, and listening to music. I would like to build out my speaker set up to include atmos at somepoint as well. That being said, would you recomend I go with the A4A or Denon 3700? Any help is appreciated.


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## JimGah

Are you thinking of adding height speakers? If so the 3700 hands down. Or you should be considering the A6A instead of the A4A.


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## Lefluer124

JimGah said:


> Are you thinking of adding height speakers? If so the 3700 hands down. Or you should be considering the A6A instead of the A4A.


I would like to add height eventually. I saw you can 5.1.2 with the a4a in its manual, I would like to build out to an 5.2.4 one day. I saw the new x3800h is going to come out soon as well. Everyone is saying Denon is the way to go but I would like to learn more about why that is. I'm not against it but am trying to learn more about recievers especially what sets them apaart. I have an equal mix of listening to music, watching movies, and playing games.


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## G. Hogweed

Between Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha, do they have a current 5.1 receiver between US$250 - 350 that can process HDMI with 4K UHD from blu-rays and mkv files? With or without networking...


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## NotShorty

G. Hogweed said:


> Between Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha, do they have a current 5.1 receiver between US$250 - 350 that can process HDMI with 4K UHD from blu-rays and mkv files? With or without networking...


One option


https://www.denon.com/en-us/product/special/avr-s540bt-refurbished



You need an additional device to play those 4K mkvs though. If you want to use Plex you can get a 2019 Nvidia Shield Pro and make sure you read this


https://forums.plex.tv/t/info-plex-4k-transcoding-and-you-aka-the-rules-of-4k/378203


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## G. Hogweed

Thanks. That Denon seems great! The Nvidia seems good for the 4K mkv files  I was also looking at a Sony 4K blu-ray UBP-X700 to see if it plays them.


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## NotShorty

G. Hogweed said:


> Thanks. That Denon seems great! The Nvidia seems good for the 4K mkv files  I was also looking at a Sony 4K blu-ray UBP-X700 to see if it plays them.


I definitely see the appeal of being able to play discs and files from one device. Just make sure the disc player you select does mkv playback well if that's important to you. Even the mighty ub820 doesn't do lossless audio codecs (something I didn't know until just now).





Does the unit play 4k mkv files or any mkv files – Q&A – Best Buy


Does the unit play 4k mkv files or any mkv files at all off a USB drive? – Learn about Panasonic - Streaming 4K Ultra HD Hi-Res Audio with Dolby Vision 7.1 Channel DVD/CD/3D Wi-Fi Built-In Blu-Ray Player, DP-UB820-K - Black with 7 Answers – Best Buy




www.bestbuy.com





For me it was a no-brainer because my priority is playback of 4K MKVs with lossless audio and I like the GUI of Plex. Big family/wife pleaser. The only two shortcomings for me is that it's still doesn't support the VP9 version 2 codec or whatever that's necessary for HDR playback on YouTube and also I wish it supported HDR10+. Maybe those features will be added plus HDMI 2.1 support if they ever release a new version of the shield, and no, nobody knows if or when that's going to happen.

Otherwise it's a fantastic device that's very well supported by Nvidia.


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## Gurn Blanston

I have a new 4k Sony A80J, and my old 2009 Yamaha receiver, of course, won’t pass through 4k content. I will be hooking up a pair of Deftech Mythos STS speakers and a matching center channel (no surrounds, and I don’t plan to expand my speaker setup). I’m having a tough time determining how much receiver I’ll need to drive those speakers (I believe they are 6 ohm). I’d like to buy a lower end receiver, but my local Best Buy rep says I’ll need something in the $1,600 range.


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