# Any Elan G! Users or Installs?



## uscmatt99

Hi all,


My wife and I are building a new construction home with some custom features, and I've just gone through a proposal with my custom installer. The plan is to use the new G! system by Elan to run everything. For now it would be controlling a Niles audio system, Lutron lighting, as well as security and climate (I think with Honeywell products). The CI also does Control 4 and HAI in this price range, but felt the Elan products would best fit our lifestyle and needs.


I've had a tough time finding any reviews of this control product. The web site is flashy and somewhat nebulous at the same time. I'd love to hear any positive or negative experiences with the system, both from end users and installers.


Thanks in advance


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## Anthony A.

im curious on their line too. the gui on their new stuff looks incredible, very slick and user friendly. in my years of being on this forum, i haven't come across many, if any, elan installs so it may be difficult to get experiences. maybe a CI can help.


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## fcwilt

It is an excellent mid-range product.


You don't have the option for a totally custom graphic UI as you do with something like Crestron but you do have more then enough flexibility to have highly functional and user friendly screens.


With some creativity on the part of the installer you can support most any hardware you desire.


In my home I have the slightly older HomeLogic system with control over Lighting, Thermostats, Irrigation, Security System, Security Cameras (with DVR), Home Theater.


The system can also handle your voice and email messaging.


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## fletch999

Why a Niles audio system rather than an Elan?


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## uscmatt99

Fletch,


The Elan audio system, as far as I could tell, is great for categorizing your existing music and sources, but the interface offered with the Niles system, the expandability, and ease of operation sold us on it. We're starting with 6 zones and 6 different types of content, but will prewire for an additional 6 zones that can be easily expanded later. The swappable modules are a great feature, and our plan is to have 2 iPod modules, Sirius, XM, and 2 IM net modules for Pandora and Rhapsody type content.


My wife and I have been city apartment dwellers for years, and in building a home we wanted to really tune it to our listening habits. Right now we mostly listen to music by plugging in our iPhones to auxilliary inputs on receivers in a couple of rooms. But the hassle involved really limits our usage. To be able to set up our listening preferences with hot keys on tiny panels, and to have greater control over the music library when needed through either their panels or an iPhone/iPad app, will be great. The icing on the cake is that the whole system will be centered in the basement and the look will be clean throughout the house. I'm sure that other systems could have worked for us, but since Niles is either owned by or under the same parent company as Elan, the products should mesh well.


fcwilt,


Thanks for the response. While Creston would have been awesome, I think it's a little mismatched to the size and cost of the home we're building. Elan and C4 both seem to be the best products at this price point that I've come across. We are fortunate to have an installer who really enjoys his work and has installed several Home Logic systems in the past with very happy clients. Just hearing his excitement over how the doorbell system works inspired my confidence in his design and install skills.


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## fletch999

So you are going to mix the user interfaces? Meaning you wil hav G! touchpanels and remotes in addition to the Niles keypads?


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## uscmatt99

Yes, we'll be using a variety of the proprietary touchpads for Niles, and using the apps for iPad/iPhone for controlling the G! system. We only have to pay for 2 licenses for G! but can load the software on any number of hardware devices. I toyed around with the iPhone app and it was fine for the level of control we'll be using. I figure that with 2 iPhones, 2 iPads already in our possession, we couldn't lose going that way to start. I believe we'll be able to control the Niles system from the iDevices as well, but I need to double check on that.


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## fletch999

I'm not sure what you gain by using the Niles system and then adding the G on top of it. Two completely different user interfaces is more times than not, a pain from a users perspective and just adds complexity for a dealer as well. Two separate programming environments, etc etc.


The Elan audio stuff gives you pretty much any source you could want and the G will then control everything from one unified front end. Whether your interfaces are iPads or other iOS devices or G touchpanels and remotes.


Ease of use is a primary goal of an automation system and mixing two or more different UIs defeats that purpose.


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## uscmatt99

Fletch,


You bring up a good point about needing to use 2 interfaces rather than one. My wife and I had a fair amount of discussion time with the integrator prior to him putting the package together. I'm not sure why he chose the Niles system over the Elan system for the whole-house audio component of the install. I suspect it was a combination of perceived ease of use, prior customer satisfaction, and the price he could negotiate with the company. Since we will be in a Parade of Homes in my area, the integrator said he was able to get very good pricing on the system and felt it would tie in well.


Looking at the Elan offerings, it looks like they can offer all that the Niles system does. I'll have to ask the integrator about all of this. I thank you for bringing it to my attention!


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## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/19386072
> 
> 
> Looking at the Elan offerings, it looks like they can offer all that the Niles system does. I'll have to ask the integrator about all of this. I thank you for bringing it to my attention!



I also would suggest you take a long second look at using just the Elan system.


The integrator may have reasons for suggesting Niles even if it is not the best choice for your install.


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## fletch999

Niles ICS with all its cards and touchpanels is not inexpensive. Then add on the entire G system on top of it, even without using G touchpanels, plus programming both systems and getting them to work together with feedback both ways, if that is the goal, will not be easy or inexpensive.


Using a System 8 plus all the sources you would need, then G controlling all the various subsystems seems like a better way to go.


As to C4, I don't know if it can control a Lutron system or not, but if it can, I don't know what it couldn't do that G can't either.


Question; what Lutron lighting system? Centralized Homeworks? or RadioRa2 or what?


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## uscmatt99

I read a little bit about the Elan system 8, and it seems that we'd need the 8.6 AVP plus an amp to have reliable power to all the zones at once. Would I then need to shop for input devices for each source from the manufacturer? For example, do I need little networked boxes for Sirius, XM, internet radio, Pandora, Rhapsody, etc. or do I need a separate computer with outputs to the pre-amp for the web-based services? The Niles system, while expensive, seems pretty elegant in that the receiver has enough amplification for our needs and offers cards that at least integrate right into the unit, hopefully with no handshake issues. Despite these niceties, I'm sure they come at a cost, and I'll be interested to hear the integrator's response as to why he suggested Niles in the first place.


I forsee us using proprietary touchpads for the audio at least 90% of the time, and could completely do without iOS device control as needed. My wife and I have very different musical tastes, and the ease of switching between sources with one button-touch would be great. It seems like both systems can accomodate that. Otherwise the tabbed G system running everything else via an iOS interface is all we need.


For lighting, I still need to talk with the integrator about advantages and disadvantages of RadioRa2 and the Centralized system (which I assume uses wiring?) We'd like to have light load and shade control on the main floor, and light load control on the upper level and basement as well. I understand it will all be controllable from iOS devices via G. I'm hoping it can be tied into the universal remote in the family room so that when the TV comes on, the lights dim to a preset level and shades go down.


Frederick, I understand that the integrator could always have ulterior motives behind any recommendation. I've price checked what I could and feel he is making a fair amount of money for the installation for those items. I think that whatever his reason for suggesting Niles, it is probably in our interest and modeled around the budget we gave.


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## fletch999

The Niles ICS receiver is a nice unit and it has great source capabilites as you have learned. I just question the use of multiple user interfaces. If you are going to use G! as the front end and controler for all the sub systems, then use G!. I don't know if the G! System has a two-way control module for the Niles GRX2, but if it does, then there is no reason to use Niles touchpanels IMO. One unified user experience instead of multiple. Plus the new G! remote is slick for TV watching plus full control of everything else.


As far as Ra2 vs Homeworks, that is a whole different story. Homeworks is a full, hardwires, centralized lighting system that replaces the standard wiring in ahome and all of the standard light switches/dimmers with simple, elegant keypads where light switches wouldusually go. There are a ton of reassons to use this type of system that you can find with a quick search. Radio Ra2 just swaps out the standard swtches that are already in the walls with controllable dimmers. The control system can then talk to those dimmers. Totally an apples to oranges difference between Homeworks wired and RA2. ALso a world of difference in cost.


If you are going to use RA2, then I don't see why Control4 isn't in the running for this system, since it can do A/V, lighitng, HVAC etc mostly natively. With a few pieces from third parties thrown in.


Anyway, there are a million variables to a project like this, not the least of which is your budget and your comfort level with the integrator. If your needs are met by the integrator at the budget you want, and you are comfortable wth the integrator, then nothing we say on these forums matters much. Good luck with your new home!


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## uscmatt99

Fletch,


Thanks for the detailed response. What you say does matter! Otherwise I wouldn't have posted in the first place. To respond to a couple of points you raised.... We went with Elan over Control 4 mainly because we preferred the interface and graphics when we tried it out on an iPhone. May be a silly reason for most, but since we always have a phone on us and an iPad nearby, it made sense.


For the audio, you've really got me questioning why Niles was suggested over the Elan system. I'll be discussing that with the integrator today. I definitely see the value of a unified control system, I'm just wondering what, if anything, we'd be losing by going with the Elan over using Niles.


I read some about the lighting, and I think that Ra2 is definitely the way to go for us. Homeworks seems crazy expensive with a lot of up-front costs, while Ra2 should be easy to install in stages based on pre-existing wiring. While not as robust or absolutely reliable, it should meet or exceed what we're looking to do. Of course, when Ra3 comes out and is not backwards compatible with Ra2, that will suck


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## fletch999

Other than using a few extra rack spaces for sources, there isn't much, if anything, to lose between Niles and Elan. That assumes that G is your unified interface, which it easily can (and should IMO) be.


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## cnacht

I have a Homelogic system and use it to control 3 system8's and the V883 video switcher. It works great. I also don't know why you would use a niles system. I don't know much about Niles, but if I would do it again I would choose Elan for my distributed AV all over again. I would have to think that because Elan owns G that the drivers have to be better.

For controlling the system I use my Computers and Iphone for touchscreens. I have one touchpanel in my bathroom and I can't think of anywhere else I would need one. I would look closely at the new G remote. Touchpanels are great, but surfing the TV with are not very user friendly. Having a hard button remote with each TV is a must for me. I carry my Iphone everywhere, so if I need the touchscreen interface it is right in my pocket.

I keep pestering my installer, to get me upgraded to G, but his rep doesn't have to many answers for him. Hopefully it can be upgraded since it is software based. Suppose I will just have to wait and see.


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## cnacht

Also, forgot to add, I use centralite Jetstreams for lighting. I have about 86 loads. RA2 wasn't out when I built and RA1 didn't have capabilities I wanted and the price point wasn't good. If I had to do it over again, I would use RA2 instead of Centralite.


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## snooktarpon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/19391529
> 
> 
> I read a little bit about the Elan system 8, and it seems that we'd need the 8.6 AVP plus an amp to have reliable power to all the zones at once. Would I then need to shop for input devices for each source from the manufacturer? For example, do I need little networked boxes for Sirius, XM, internet radio, Pandora, Rhapsody, etc. or do I need a separate computer with outputs to the pre-amp for the web-based services? The Niles system, while expensive, seems pretty elegant in that the receiver has enough amplification for our needs and offers cards that at least integrate right into the unit, hopefully with no handshake issues. Despite these niceties, I'm sure they come at a cost, and I'll be interested to hear the integrator's response as to why he suggested Niles in the first place.
> 
> 
> I forsee us using proprietary touchpads for the audio at least 90% of the time, and could completely do without iOS device control as needed. My wife and I have very different musical tastes, and the ease of switching between sources with one button-touch would be great. It seems like both systems can accomodate that. Otherwise the tabbed G system running everything else via an iOS interface is all we need.
> 
> 
> For lighting, I still need to talk with the integrator about advantages and disadvantages of RadioRa2 and the Centralized system (which I assume uses wiring?) We'd like to have light load and shade control on the main floor, and light load control on the upper level and basement as well. I understand it will all be controllable from iOS devices via G. I'm hoping it can be tied into the universal remote in the family room so that when the TV comes on, the lights dim to a preset level and shades go down.
> 
> 
> Frederick, I understand that the integrator could always have ulterior motives behind any recommendation. I've price checked what I could and feel he is making a fair amount of money for the installation for those items. I think that whatever his reason for suggesting Niles, it is probably in our interest and modeled around the budget we gave.



uscmatt99,


You mention the S86AVP. Note that the S86AVP is now called the S86A and is basically a composite video and stereo audio matrix switcher with a built-in 12-channel amp. There is also a S86P which is the same as the S86A but without the 12-channel amp. Assuming you don't need to distribute composite video, you could wait for the new Elan M86A which basically eliminates the video switching. The M86A also has a built in 12 channel amp.


In term of music sources, the new g! controllers (which are just starting to ship) are called the HC6 and HC12 and the have the ability to stream Pandora and Rhapsody via two independent audio outputs. You have to pay for the Online Content App for these services. The HC12 has a built-in hard drive to store you digital music collection. Elan has a DT22 dual AM/FM/Sirius tuner. So you can take the HC6/12 and DT22 audio outputs (total of 4 outputs) into the M86A/S86A/S86P.


Integrating Niles and having different interfaces is a very bad idea IMHO. The g! system with Elan M86A can do it all with a common interface on all devices (in-wall touchscreens, iPad, iPhone, and the new HR2 remote). It sounds like the installer has some Niles product in inventory that they are trying to offload on you. Furthermore from a programming standpoint, it's much easier to stay all within the Elan umbrella and will probably be easier to troubleshoot with Elan tech support if necessary.


Finally, RA2 is pretty awesome. I haven't installed it yet but I will by 1st quarter next year. I have the original RA in my house and it is rock solid. RA2 basically gives you more functionality for the same $ as the original RA and its very easy to program by the custom installer. The original RA had to be programmed manually by physically pressing each dimmer. With RA2, the electrical contractor can wire the house in conventional manner (versus home-run wiring to a lighting panel). You can even add RA2 anytime after the build and just update the g! programming to control it.


I hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want more info/advice.


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## Gunner-




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snooktarpon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> uscmatt99,
> 
> 
> You mention the S86AVP. Note that the S86AVP is now called the S86A and is basically a composite video and stereo audio matrix switcher with a built-in 12-channel amp. There is also a S86P which is the same as the S86A but without the 12-channel amp. Assuming you don't need to distribute composite video, you could wait for the new Elan M86A which basically eliminates the video switching. The M86A also has a built in 12 channel amp.
> 
> 
> In term of music sources, the new g! controllers (which are just starting to ship) are called the HC6 and HC12 and the have the ability to stream Pandora and Rhapsody via two independent audio outputs. You have to pay for the Online Content App for these services. The HC12 has a built-in hard drive to store you digital music collection. Elan has a DT22 dual AM/FM/Sirius tuner. So you can take the HC6/12 and DT22 audio outputs (total of 4 outputs) into the M86A/S86A/S86P.
> 
> 
> Integrating Niles and having different interfaces is a very bad idea IMHO. The g! system with Elan M86A can do it all with a common interface on all devices (in-wall touchscreens, iPad, iPhone, and the new HR2 remote). It sounds like the installer has some Niles product in inventory that they are trying to offload on you. Furthermore from a programming standpoint, it's much easier to stay all within the Elan umbrella and will probably be easier to troubleshoot with Elan tech support if necessary.
> 
> 
> Finally, RA2 is pretty awesome. I haven't installed it yet but I will by 1st quarter next year. I have the original RA in my house and it is rock solid. RA2 basically gives you more functionality for the same $ as the original RA and its very easy to program by the custom installer. The original RA had to be programmed manually by physically pressing each dimmer. With RA2, the electrical contractor can wire the house in conventional manner (versus home-run wiring to a lighting panel). You can even add RA2 anytime after the build and just update the g! programming to control it.
> 
> 
> I hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you want more info/advice.



I agree with Snooktarpon. Use Elan for the audio distribution as well. They offer everything Niles does and more. Elans new system works great and IMHO is the best control system in it's price category. C4 has too many issues with latency (new 2.0 interface is Slow), is buggy, and you can't customize. Élan g! is very fast and offers some customization. I also like the fact that Elans strategy is focusing on control and not offering every subsystem under one brand (lighting,hvac,etc).


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## uscmatt99

Well I've looked into the Elan distributed audio system some more and I think it's something that would work well for us. Fortunately my integrator is out in California for a few days and meeting with some of the Elan, Home Logic, and Niles people for updates on their products. I particularly like the streamlined setup of the HC-12, M86A, and D22 that snooktarpon suggested. This should easily handle 6 zones, and can be readily expanded for more zones or amplification. I spoke with the integrator today and he said he had some hardware or audio quality issues with one of the older Elan products and he's shied away from using them in favor of Niles since then.


I added up the cost of the Niles touchpanels and the cards that would go into the GRX2, and holy crap! Maybe if we can save a little or break even by going with the Elan audio receiver/amp, we could just get a few of the TS7 panels, maybe a few TS2 screens as well if the iPhone control isn't adequate. Like cnacht, we have our phones with us all the time anyway. That way, these panels could just control everything rather than just music.


As for remotes, I'd like to see how responsive a Wi-Fi remote is for controlling AV equipment. The original proposal was for MX-980 remotes for the great room and theater, which seem very robust and intuitive when programmed well. But if the new HR-2 is up to snuff, I see no reason to forgo all the additional control it offers for the rest of the systems.


I'll keep everyone posted, and thanks again for all the feedback.


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## Anthony A.

any news as to your progress?


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## uscmatt99

Still hashing it out. Home construction is progressing nicely, and all the structured wiring is going in. As far as distributed audio, pricing for Niles and Elan was very similar. The CI has been out to California talking with G! and Niles reps and is confident that the systems will merge seamlessly. We shall see.... Plan for now is to use TS7 screens in our bedroom and kitchen, and a wall-mounted iPad in the basement (which will see less use). We'll probably have simple Niles touchpads for the other zones to get the system on with one-touch hot-buttons, but use iOS devices for any browsing.


The bummer with iOS devices is that no matter what, you have to log-in to the system. That's why we went with Elan's panels in the 2 locations that would see the heaviest use. If someone knows of a hack to keep your iPod/Pad/Phone logged in, I'm all ears!


As far as remotes, my wife and I played around with the MX-980 and it's very easy to use and well laid out. My kid played with it and it survived drops and smashing tables without a hitch. The Elan HR-2 seems nice as well, but I like the MX better and the CI has programmed a bunch of them and knows the ins and outs better. We're going to use one for our great room area, and a second for the theater room. If we like them after several months, we may put another one in our bedroom.


I'll keep everyone updated as things progress, but my opinion won't mean much until everything is installed and we've lived with it for awhile.


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## Chicagorep

I'm a rep for Niles and Elan, since both companies are now part of the AVC Group you are going to see a lot of technology sharing. I heard that Niles is not going to develop new UI's but suggest to dealers to use the Elan touch screens. As far as the robustness of the g! platform goes, I think the processor exceeds anything that AMX and Crestron offer and with out all the apologies that C4 dealers are geting from HQ. We currently have a project that has 28 TS7's in it, only 1 HC12 is required to process all this info. I know with AMX multiple processors are needed.


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## chomperoni




uscmatt99 said:


> Still hashing it out. Home construction is progressing nicely, and all the structured wiring is going in. As far as distributed audio, pricing for Niles and Elan was very similar. The CI has been out to California talking with G! and Niles reps and is confident that the systems will merge seamlessly. We shall see.... Plan for now is to use TS7 screens in our bedroom and kitchen, and a wall-mounted iPad in the basement (which will see less use). We'll probably have simple Niles touchpads for the other zones to get the system on with one-touch hot-buttons, but use iOS devices for any browsing.
> 
> 
> The bummer with iOS devices is that no matter what, you have to log-in to the system. That's why we went with Elan's panels in the 2 locations that would see the heaviest use. If someone knows of a hack to keep your iPod/Pad/Phone logged in, I'm all ears!
> 
> 
> As far as remotes, my wife and I played around with the MX-980 and it's very easy to use and well laid out. My kid played with it and it survived drops and smashing tables without a hitch. The Elan HR-2 seems nice as well, but I like the MX better and the CI has programmed a bunch of them and knows the ins and outs better. We're going to use one for our great room area, and a second for the theater room. If we like them after several months, we may put another one in our bedroom.
> 
> 
> So it seems you like the mx better than their new remote. Have you tried both? I haven't seen the new one but everyone is saying they are better. Just wondering if you have experienced both.


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## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still hashing it out. Home construction is progressing nicely, and all the structured wiring is going in. As far as distributed audio, pricing for Niles and Elan was very similar. The CI has been out to California talking with G! and Niles reps and is confident that the systems will merge seamlessly. We shall see.... Plan for now is to use TS7 screens in our bedroom and kitchen, and a wall-mounted iPad in the basement (which will see less use). We'll probably have simple Niles touchpads for the other zones to get the system on with one-touch hot-buttons, but use iOS devices for any browsing.
> 
> 
> The bummer with iOS devices is that no matter what, you have to log-in to the system. That's why we went with Elan's panels in the 2 locations that would see the heaviest use. If someone knows of a hack to keep your iPod/Pad/Phone logged in, I'm all ears!
> 
> 
> As far as remotes, my wife and I played around with the MX-980 and it's very easy to use and well laid out. My kid played with it and it survived drops and smashing tables without a hitch. The Elan HR-2 seems nice as well, but I like the MX better and the CI has programmed a bunch of them and knows the ins and outs better. We're going to use one for our great room area, and a second for the theater room. If we like them after several months, we may put another one in our bedroom.
> 
> 
> I'll keep everyone updated as things progress, but my opinion won't mean much until everything is installed and we've lived with it for awhile.



The HR2 will not be released until late March / early April. It's currently in beta testing right now as I am one of the beta testers. While I can't say too much due to the NDA, all I will say is that it WILL be worth the wait.


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## fcwilt

I have the older system from HomeLogic (now the Elan system).


In a couple of rooms I have A/V equipment tied into the system.


I configured the system to allow me to use both an IR based remote (MX-950) and a Wi-Fi based remote (an iPad running the HomeLogic client app) to control this A/V gear.


The iPad setup is much more responsive and reliable but the form factor is not ideal.


I think that a Wi-Fi based "stick" remote like the HR2 would be the best of both worlds.


In any case I am going to wait until I have a chance to test an HR2 before I expand my system any further.


-


Also I would go with the Elan audio setup rather then the Niles.


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## uscmatt99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20029825
> 
> 
> The HR2 will not be released until late March / early April. It's currently in beta testing right now as I am one of the beta testers. While I can't say too much due to the NDA, all I will say is that it WILL be worth the wait.



Airric,


I got to handle and use the MX-980 and really liked the button layout and feel. It seems to be a well-established and reliable remote as well. I obviously haven't handled an HR-2, but based on the button layout and what I could discern ergonomically from photos, I don't like it as much. What are the advantages to the HR-2 if I want a remote for a theater room, but don't need control over the HVAC, security, distributed audio, etc.? All that I want to control is the theater equipment, some lighting scenes with a graphic eye, and a minisplit air conditioner (separate from house HVAC) if possible. What is the advantage of the Wi-Fi capabilities in this scenario?


The application of the MX-980 would be similar in the family room. Again, though, I don't see the need to monitor most of G!'s control systems from the remote up there either. The only exception would be the distributed audio system which is independent of the speakers for the TV there, as well as lighting.


Of note, lighting will be tied together with Lutron's RA2 for both the theater and family room.


I guess that if I could be convinced that there are conveniences to be gained by using the HR-2 vs. the MX-980, it would be worth giving up the ergonomic advantages of the MX-980. Remember that my wife must be happy with an easy to use and intuitive system, and that I have a sneaky toddler running around that says "uh-oh" a lot and durability is important as well. I appreciate everyone's comments


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## fcwilt

I don't know exactly how they are intending to tie in a MX-980 into the new Elan hardware but with the older HomeLogic system it was a bit round-about.


The A/V equipment was controlled via the HomeLogic system using a combination of IR emitters (for equipment that did not support any other form of control) and Serial or Network connections for the rest of the gear.


When controlling from a HomeLogic touch screen (or iPod/iPad) the response and reliability was first rate.


To support an IR remote (like the MX-980) a IR receiver was added which, upon recognizing a valid IR sequence, triggered events in the HomeLogic system and in turn control signals were sent to the A/V equipment - the same signals that would be sent if using the touch screens, etc.


Since the HomeLogic system was responsible for receiving, decoding and recognizing the IR sequences there was a noticeable lag. There was also some problems with improper recognition.


Hopefully with the newer system they have something better.


Of course you can always have the IR remote control the A/V equipment directly bypassing the Elan system entirely.


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## uscmatt99

Frederick,


I think the intention is to leave the display equipment and associated dedicated audio equipment completely out of the Elan loop. For the theater room an IR extender will be used to communicate with the receiver and all connected components. RF from the remote should be able to communicate with the Lutron Ra2, and hopefully the minisplit. Same concept in the family room. I opted against any distributed video in our home to save some money, and it seems like there are a lot of issues with the ever-changing HDMI standards.


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## fcwilt

What you describe would work.


I have a batch of URC MX-950 remotes (now the MX-980 more or less). I tried to use the RF feature to eliminate the line-of-site nature of IR remotes. However next to the home theater is the game room with video, pinball and other arcade games. They put out so much RF interference that I never could get the remote to work. Sigh...


I do like having the A/V gear controlled by my HomeLogic system - when the kids leave the gear on in the home theater (or wherever) I can turn if off from anywhere.


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## iimig




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcwilt* /forum/post/20041128
> 
> 
> I tried to use the RF feature to eliminate the line-of-site nature of IR remotes. However next to the home theater is the game room with video, pinball and other arcade games. They put out so much RF interference that I never could get the remote to work. Sigh....



The MRF-300 base station you would have used with the 950 was an older generation of RF. Try one of the newer MRF-350 or 260 narrowband and I bet the RF issues go away. The MRF-350 lets you place the antenna remote from the base station which can make a huge difference as well.


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## fcwilt

Sadly that is what I have - MRF-350 "base stations" with a RFX-250 "remote antennas".


The games are all commercial products so I am not too surprised that they are spewing RF interference.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Airric,
> 
> 
> I got to handle and use the MX-980 and really liked the button layout and feel. It seems to be a well-established and reliable remote as well. I obviously haven't handled an HR-2, but based on the button layout and what I could discern ergonomically from photos, I don't like it as much. What are the advantages to the HR-2 if I want a remote for a theater room, but don't need control over the HVAC, security, distributed audio, etc.? All that I want to control is the theater equipment, some lighting scenes with a graphic eye, and a minisplit air conditioner (separate from house HVAC) if possible. What is the advantage of the Wi-Fi capabilities in this scenario?
> 
> 
> The application of the MX-980 would be similar in the family room. Again, though, I don't see the need to monitor most of G!'s control systems from the remote up there either. The only exception would be the distributed audio system which is independent of the speakers for the TV there, as well as lighting.
> 
> 
> Of note, lighting will be tied together with Lutron's RA2 for both the theater and family room.
> 
> 
> I guess that if I could be convinced that there are conveniences to be gained by using the HR-2 vs. the MX-980, it would be worth giving up the ergonomic advantages of the MX-980. Remember that my wife must be happy with an easy to use and intuitive system, and that I have a sneaky toddler running around that says "uh-oh" a lot and durability is important as well. I appreciate everyone's comments



Please remember that I am under NDA, so you'll forgive me ahead of time if I don't get too specific about the HR2's capabilities. That being said, let me give you some background of me so you know where my frame of reference comes from. I am a custom installation dealer. As both a dealer and a consumer I have used and programmed the following hand held remote brands: RTI, Universal Remote, Pronto, Harmony and Elan. Currently we use RTI mainly. We used to use Universal Remote mostly until we had too many issues with their RF, as Frederick eluded to earlier. This even included their "narrow band" RF. After switching to RTI a few years back, their RF is superior. When I found out that Elan was going to use WiFi for the HR2, I had my doubts as to it's reliability and especially it's speed in which it could reconnect to WiFi after being awoken from sleep mode. All I'll say now after having played around with it is that I have no more doubts about it's WiFi capabilities.


Secondly, it is a very ergonomically correct remote. Every pertinent hard button needed is there. Button placement is just right and button feel and feedback is of a very high quality IMHO.


But to me, what makes the HR2 superior to the MX-980 and all other "IR/RF" remotes is the two-way feed back with all your sub-systems. Even though you state that you don't need to access most of your sub-systems from the remote in either room, you can still control both your A/V gear and your RA2 lighting system, both with full, real time feedback (i.e. Volume and source status, current light levels/scene activation, etc.) as opposed to the traditional press and pray. Also you said you would need to control your house audio system in the Family room. Very hard to do effectively with a "one-way" remote. You could actually not only see "Now playing" info with album cover art right on the remote's screen, but you could also browse your music library or setup your Pandora or Rhapsody, all right on the touch screen portion of the remote.


Basically you get 80-90% of the functionality of a full touch screen interface combined with the ergonomic convenience of a hand held remote. To me, that is the killer feature of the HR2.


Hope that helps you in some way.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20053622
> 
> 
> Basically you get 80-90% of the functionality of a full touch screen interface combined with the ergonomic convenience of a hand held remote. To me, that is the killer feature of the HR2.



And that's why I am going to purchase one and verify that it is as good as I think it is going to be.


My local dealer knows I am chomping at the bit.


----------



## uscmatt99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Airric* 
Please remember that I am under NDA, so you'll forgive me ahead of time if I don't get too specific about the HR2's capabilities. That being said, let me give you some background of me so you know where my frame of reference comes from. I am a custom installation dealer. As both a dealer and a consumer I have used and programmed the following hand held remote brands: RTI, Universal Remote, Pronto, Harmony and Elan. Currently we use RTI mainly. We used to use Universal Remote mostly until we had too many issues with their RF, as Frederick eluded to earlier. This even included their "narrow band" RF. After switching to RTI a few years back, their RF is superior. When I found out that Elan was going to use WiFi for the HR2, I had my doubts as to it's reliability and especially it's speed in which it could reconnect to WiFi after being awoken from sleep mode. All I'll say now after having played around with it is that I have no more doubts about it's WiFi capabilities.


Secondly, it is a very ergonomically correct remote. Every pertinent hard button needed is there. Button placement is just right and button feel and feedback is of a very high quality IMHO.


But to me, what makes the HR2 superior to the MX-980 and all other "IR/RF" remotes is the two-way feed back with all your sub-systems. Even though you state that you don't need to access most of your sub-systems from the remote in either room, you can still control both your A/V gear and your RA2 lighting system, both with full, real time feedback (i.e. Volume and source status, current light levels/scene activation, etc.) as opposed to the traditional press and pray. Also you said you would need to control your house audio system in the Family room. Very hard to do effectively with a "one-way" remote. You could actually not only see "Now playing" info with album cover art right on the remote's screen, but you could also browse your music library or setup your Pandora or Rhapsody, all right on the touch screen portion of the remote.


Basically you get 80-90% of the functionality of a full touch screen interface combined with the ergonomic convenience of a hand held remote. To me, that is the killer feature of the HR2.


Hope that helps you in some way.
Well color me interested. Your feedback is very helpful. I initially thought the WiFi put it at a disadvantage as well, for reasons you mention above. Hopefully my guy can get his hands on one by April to evaluate. This is a naive question, but since it's WiFi, how does it communicate with my devices? I didn't see a base station, so does every device need to be network connected to use this? I guess all that really matters at this point is that the wiring being done now (2 Cat5, 2 RG-6 to each site with a display) is adequate. Another benefit is that the HR-2 prices out less than the URC and base station combo. When your NDA is up, hopefully you can provide more details on your experience with the remote.


----------



## mike1812

Quote:

Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* 
Well color me interested. Your feedback is very helpful. I initially thought the WiFi put it at a disadvantage as well, for reasons you mention above. Hopefully my guy can get his hands on one by April to evaluate. This is a naive question, but since it's WiFi, how does it communicate with my devices? I didn't see a base station, so does every device need to be network connected to use this? I guess all that really matters at this point is that the wiring being done now (2 Cat5, 2 RG-6 to each site with a display) is adequate. Another benefit is that the HR-2 prices out less than the URC and base station combo. When your NDA is up, hopefully you can provide more details on your experience with the remote.
I have no inside knowledge, but thinking through this logically based on the Elan site descriptions, one would assume that the wifi connection is only to connect to the g! series controllers (HC6, HC12, M86A) (and possibly some IP controllable devices). The remote has IR built in, so as a stand-alone remote (without the HC6 or HC12 controller), it would simply be programmed to control your devices via IR (and maybe IP if available). If your devices are remotely located or hidden behind cabinet/rack doors (i.e., NOT line-of-sight), then your comparison would be the HR2 PLUS either the HC6 or HC12, which I believe will be more than the MX980 + base station (but will also provide more functionality at that higher cost). This still isn't an apples to apples comparison, because the HC6/12 do much more than the URC MRF base stations. A closer comparison would be the 980/MRC400 to the HR2/HC6 or 12.


----------



## uscmatt99

Quote:

Originally Posted by *mike1812* 
I have no inside knowledge, but thinking through this logically based on the Elan site descriptions, one would assume that the wifi connection is only to connect to the g! series controllers (HC6, HC12, M86A) (and possibly some IP controllable devices). The remote has IR built in, so as a stand-alone remote (without the HC6 or HC12 controller), it would simply be programmed to control your devices via IR (and maybe IP if available). If your devices are remotely located or hidden behind cabinet/rack doors (i.e., NOT line-of-sight), then your comparison would be the HR2 PLUS either the HC6 or HC12, which I believe will be more than the MX980 + base station (but will also provide more functionality at that higher cost). This still isn't an apples to apples comparison, because the HC6/12 do much more than the URC MRF base stations. A closer comparison would be the 980/MRC400 to the HR2/HC6 or 12.
We already have an HC6 in the budget, fortunately, regardless of whether we use the HR-2. Since the AV equipment would be hidden, we would just need an RF extender. Hopefully the programmable macros could use both the IR and WiFi commands. It would be awesome to dim the lights, put down the shades, turn off the music, and fire up the TV all at once.


----------



## fcwilt

Quote:

Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* 
This is a naive question, but since it's WiFi, how does it communicate with my devices? I didn't see a base station, so does every device need to be network connected to use this?
If it works as does the older HomeLogic (and I believe it will) the HC6 is connected to your home LAN. Then you will need a Wi-Fi Access Point (often built into your router). The HC6 will control your A/V equipment via network, serial or IR control. The HC6 has some IR outputs but more then likely you will have something like a GlobalCache GC-100 which provides the HC6 (via a network connection) with IR, Serial and Relay ports.


In my case I have a combination of devices (projector, AVR, BD players, etc) controlled via IR or Serial.


So the HR2 would connect via the Wi-Fi Access Point to your network, communicate with the HC6 and command the HC6 to control your A/V gear, lights, etc.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcwilt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If it works as does the older HomeLogic (and I believe it will) the HC6 is connected to your home LAN. Then you will need a Wi-Fi Access Point (often built into your router). The HC6 will control your A/V equipment via network, serial or IR control. The HC6 has some IR outputs but more then likely you will have something like a GlobalCache GC-100 which provides the HC6 (via a network connection) with IR, Serial and Relay ports.
> 
> 
> In my case I have a combination of devices (projector, AVR, BD players, etc) controlled via IR or Serial.
> 
> 
> So the HR2 would connect via the Wi-Fi Access Point to your network, communicate with the HC6 and command the HC6 to control your A/V gear, lights, etc.



Frederick nailed it, works exactly like the HomeLogic system worked as he described above.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> We already have an HC6 in the budget, fortunately, regardless of whether we use the HR-2. Since the AV equipment would be hidden, we would just need an RF extender.



No need for an RF base station as it doesn't work quite the same way. If the HC6 is located in the same location as your A/V gear you're trying to control, you could control them directly off the HC6. It has 6 serial ports and 6 discrete IR ports (hence the "6" in HC6). The HR2 simply talks to the HC6 via your wireless network.


If your HC6 is located remotely from your A/V gear, then all you would need to do is add a Global Cache piece where your A/V gear is. The Global Cache provides IR & Serial control and sits on your network, that's how your HC6 talks to it. So the chain looks like this:


HR2 (via WiFi) --> HC6 (via wired or WiFi) --> Global Cache --> IR and Serial devices


Networked devices (i.e. RadioRA2 or networked Surround receivers) need no interface device like a Global Cache, they sit on the network and are controlled directly by the HC6.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> It would be awesome to dim the lights, put down the shades, turn off the music, and fire up the TV all at once.



Easily done.


----------



## fcwilt

I thought the HCx's had serial ports but the Elan web site is inconsistent - in some places they are mentioned, in others they are omitted.


The pictures show them so I will assume they will have them.


----------



## Airric

The HC6 not only has 6 serial/6 IR, but it also has 2 RS485 ports to talk to devices like Aprilaire thermostats directly. It also has 6 sense inputs, 2 USB ports, an IR all out port, an IR input port to receive commands from an IR remote, VIANet in/out jacks (Elan's proprietary RS485 bus) to talk directly to other Elan devices Bidirectionally, and 2 relays. It also has two audio outputs so you can have two audio streams from the built in music server, plus component video for it's onscreen GUI.


The only difference on an HC12 is that it has 12 serial ports and a built in 250 GB HDD.


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The HC6 not only has 6 serial/6 IR, but it also has 2 RS485 ports to talk to devices like Aprilaire thermostats directly. It also has 6 sense inputs, 2 USB ports, an IR all out port, an IR input port to receive commands from an IR remote, VIANet in/out jacks (Elan's proprietary RS485 bus) to talk directly to other Elan devices Bidirectionally, and 2 relays. It also has two audio outputs so you can have two audio streams from the built in music server, plus component video for it's onscreen GUI.
> 
> 
> The only difference on an HC12 is that it has 12 serial ports and a built in 250 GB HDD.



What are sense inputs used for?


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What are sense inputs used for?



Basically, there are a ton of automation uses for them as they are used to sense contact closures. These could be anything from a sun sensor to know when to automatically drop your shades or a closure off a motion detector to automatically trigger lights going on/off. These are merely two examples of many that utilize sense inputs. You could then use these events to also trigger notifications like emails and text messages to let you know something is happening, like if your basement is flooding with water.


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, there are a ton of automation uses for them as they are used to sense contact closures. These could be anything from a sun sensor to know when to automatically drop your shades or a closure off a motion detector to automatically trigger lights going on/off. These are merely two examples of many that utilize sense inputs. You could then use these events to also trigger notifications like emails and text messages to let you know something is happening, like if your basement is flooding with water.



Thanks for explaining it to me Eric. I didn't know it could do all those things. Pretty cool system.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/20066649
> 
> 
> Thanks for explaining it to me Eric. I didn't know it could do all those things. Pretty cool system.



With a little creativity you can do a wide variety of things.


For example my system:


- Allows me to open/close/monitor my garage doors.

- Responds to a driveway sensor being triggered and speaks/emails an alert.

- Responds to a temperature/wind/rain sensor and disables/enables the irrigation system as needed

- Responds to a temperature sensor and turns on/off the heaters on some external security cams

- Reports on the temperature of the air/water down at my dock (I live on a lake).

- Allows me to control/monitor my WaterCop


And it should be mentioned that the entire system can be accessed from the internet - so, for example, when I am out of town I can check on the boats down at the dock.


----------



## cnacht

Has anybody had there old Homelogic system updated to G!?

Apparently with all the changes in the Elan organization my dealer's rep is MIA and he can't get a straight answer.

It would be nice if I could upgrade to G! and use their remote and all the new functionality. Also, If I could upgrade to G! I wonder If I could get rid of the squeezebox and just stream pandora from the Homebrick.

Anyone know if G! would ever allow one to stream XM/Sirius online? That would be great then I wouldn't have to activate another tuner.

If anyone had any info on the upgrade process and new features compared to Homelogic that would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Chad


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cnacht* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anybody had there old Homelogic system updated to G!?
> 
> Apparently with all the changes in the Elan organization my dealer's rep is MIA and he can't get a straight answer.
> 
> It would be nice if I could upgrade to G! and use their remote and all the new functionality.



Yes, before I upgraded to the new HC controllers (HC6 to be exact), I had a HomeBrick 80 running HomeLogic software and I had Elan upgrade me to g! It helps that:

1. I am an Elan dealer.

2. I have a very good relationship with my Elan rep.

3. I had no legacy Elan control equipment in my system.


Number 3 above is very important, if you have any legacy Elan touchscreens (VIA64, Ole's, etc.) in your system, Elan officially dropped support for mixed systems with the release of g! Older Elan switchers like the S12, S8.6AVP and such are fine.


If you have an "all HomeLogic" system on the control and interface side, then you should be able have your dealer upgrade your system, as I was able to have one of my clients systems upgraded. But it will be heavily reliant on your dealer and their relationship with their Elan rep as to whether they can get this done for you.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cnacht* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, If I could upgrade to G! I wonder If I could get rid of the squeezebox and just stream pandora from the Homebrick.
> 
> Anyone know if G! would ever allow one to stream XM/Sirius online? That would be great then I wouldn't have to activate another tuner.



Unfortunately streaming Pandora directly from a HomeBrick or MultiBrick will never be possible because neither have enough horsepower to run streaming services simultaneously with running the system software. So you will always need Squeezeboxes for this feature on HomeBrick or MultiBrick systems, even under g! Even the new HC controllers don't have streaming services enabled yet due to licensing issues, so even they are currently forced into the Squeezebox solution for now.


This should also answer your Sirius Online question as well. At some point in the future, only the HC controllers will have this ability, but not yet.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cnacht* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If anyone had any info on the upgrade process and new features compared to Homelogic that would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chad



The process is mainly a software update performed by Elan directly over the internet. There maybe some tweaks to certain interfaces that need to be redone by your dealer after the upgrade that aren't compatible with g! but that's about it.


As far as feature differences, there currently aren't a whole lot. The g! System is based off the HomeLogic core software, the main difference is it's a completely new visual interface, which should not be understated. Most of the other differences are with all the new hardware (processors, touchscreens, etc.) and the associated features relating to each piece of equipment (i.e. the HC controllers having the ability to control IR devices directly, not the case with the older Bricks which required Global Caches for that purpose). Going forward the differences will get bigger as Elan will not support all it's future features on the HomeBrick and MultiBrick controllers.


----------



## cnacht

Thanks for the information.

I have 3 system 8's for 18 zones, a v883, Com2, 1 global cache, 3 aviosys, the HomeBrick, and a Homelogic 7 or 8 inch touchscreen, so I don't believe I have any legacy equipment.

If I were to upgrade my current HomeBrick to G!, does Elan charge and upgrade fee for the software?

Does elan ever make any deals on upgrading systems? It would be great to upgrade to one of the newer controllers.

Again, thanks for the info in the above post.

Chad


----------



## Airric

Quote:

Originally Posted by *cnacht*
Thanks for the information.

I have 3 system 8's for 18 zones, a v883, Com2, 1 global cache, 3 aviosys, the HomeBrick, and a Homelogic 7 or 8 inch touchscreen, so I don't believe I have any legacy equipment.

If I were to upgrade my current HomeBrick to G!, does Elan charge and upgrade fee for the software?

Does elan ever make any deals on upgrading systems? It would be great to upgrade to one of the newer controllers.

Again, thanks for the info in the above post.

Chad
From what you described in your system, you should be good to go, no legacy controllers or interfaces. But Elan has the final say on this, they will review your system configuration and determine whether they will upgrade you or not.


Elan doesn't charge anything to do the upgrade on their end. There will be a charge from your dealer who needs to be there when the upgrade takes place to make sure that your system is still functioning properly post update. Depending on how your system was programmed (custom interfaces, etc.) your dealer may need to do some tweaks to get everything fully functional again.


As of this time, Elan is not offering any upgrade or trade in program on HomeBricks or MultiBricks. That's not to say they won't in the future, but no guarantees. You might be able to work something out with your dealer possibly.


----------



## uscmatt99

Wow, now I'm really starting to see the advantages of G!, particularly with respect to having the HC-12 tied into as much as possible. Since my home has RG-6 and Cat5 run to the basement, will this be all that is required to control IR AV equipment throughout the house? For example, would I be able to hit a macro to start up all of my basement home theater equipment using a TS-7 panel in the kitchen, and then control it all from the HR-2 remote once down there? As fcwilt alluded to in an earlier post, it would be nice to head down to the basement for a movie, then turn everything off upstairs once we're already in the basement, then get the lights back on at the end of a movie.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, now I'm really starting to see the advantages of G!, particularly with respect to having the HC-12 tied into as much as possible. Since my home has RG-6 and Cat5 run to the basement, will this be all that is required to control IR AV equipment throughout the house? For example, would I be able to hit a macro to start up all of my basement home theater equipment using a TS-7 panel in the kitchen, and then control it all from the HR-2 remote once down there? As fcwilt alluded to in an earlier post, it would be nice to head down to the basement for a movie, then turn everything off upstairs once we're already in the basement, then get the lights back on at the end of a movie.



The answer to all your questions is yes. You've pretty much grasped the full power of the system. It's great that you have extensive structured wiring throughout your home as all that's required to control equipment anywhere is a network connection and a Global Cache. Even if you don't have a wired network connection somewhere, you can even use a Global Cache that uses WiFi to talk to the HC12, so you can see there's almost no excuse to not being able to control equipment anywhere in the home (except maybe cost).


----------



## WildWest

As an Elan dealer, I couldn't help but wonder why the use of Radio RA2 when Elan's sister company, LiteTouch, has the flexibility of the 5K hybrid technology. A card slot CCU that offers the wireless option with a real nice keypad control for expansion down the road as wanted. (All without the Lutron arrogance!)


No banks of wall acme decora rocker switches etc. (What does this one do, what does that one do? Sure you would eventually memorize most but geee, should one have to?) Nice clean, high quality, keypads, back lit engraved push buttons at an affordable price. Lifetime warranty to the original owner. I had a client in the office today with their builder and we offered the g! system combined with the best in hard button control by LiteTouch. A perfect 1, 2 punch at an affordable price.


I think your on track with g! no doubt though. It's real slick at a good price point...now, if they would just get a an Android app going and the world would be perfect. (I mean, seeing how the Android platform is out selling iphone now.) All you Elan dealers, give your Elan regional an earful about this.


----------



## chomperoni

Wild west. I looked at the other system and it looks good too. I guess the main reason I am going with Ra2 is from the dealer recommendation and due to the rock solid reliability of the Lutron system.


----------



## uscmatt99

WildWest. I also went with Ra2 based on dealer recommendation. It seems to be very stable and what he is most familiar with programming. Plus I'm getting some Lutron shades to tie into the system. For what it's worth, all of our main floor switches are hidden in closets and we'll be using keypads for control. Switches for our family room are actually sitting in a basement closet. Since budget was an issue, we'll swap out regular switches for Ra2 when we do the upper floor and basement in the future, where there are fortunately less switches to deal with anyway.


----------



## chomperoni

I was recently told by my installer that the Elang G system is IP based and therefore due to this the alarm keypads may not function if the the internet connection is down.

Due to this they have recommended HAI touchscreen near front entry doors.

Is this correct?


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/20228538
> 
> 
> I was recently told by my installer that the Elang G system is IP based and therefore due to this the alarm keypads may not function if the the internet connection is down.
> 
> Due to this they have recommended HAI touchscreen near front entry doors.
> 
> Is this correct?



Yes the Elan G system is IP based and will likely need an internet connection.


However, unless they have really changed something since the older HomeLogic system, the Elan touch screens will still work, even without an internet connection.


It wouldn't hurt to have a HAI keypad or touchscreen as a backup. I have an ELK system with a few ELK keypads, as the security part of my setup. I rarely use them though.


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fcwilt* /forum/post/20229454
> 
> 
> Yes the Elan G system is IP based and will likely need an internet connection.
> 
> 
> However, unless they have really changed something since the older HomeLogic system, the Elan touch screens will still work, even without an internet connection.
> 
> 
> It wouldn't hurt to have a HAI keypad or touchscreen as a backup. I have an ELK system with a few ELK keypads, as the security part of my setup. I rarely use them though.



So do you know if I will need an HAI for sure or would I be able to stick with G!. If possible I would like to stick with same system.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/20244724
> 
> 
> So do you know if I will need an HAI for sure or would I be able to stick with G!. If possible I would like to stick with same system.



For day to day use you wont need an HAI keypad or screen.


However you should probably install an HAI keypad (not screen) near the HAI system in your utility room (or where ever you have it) just in case you ever need "direct" access into the HAI system.


My ELK system is not near any of my HomeLogic screens but I did install an ELK keypad right next to the ELK system. It comes in handy when I am working on the ELK system, upgrading programming, etc.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As an Elan dealer, I couldn't help but wonder why the use of Radio RA2 when Elan's sister company, LiteTouch, has the flexibility of the 5K hybrid technology. A card slot CCU that offers the wireless option with a real nice keypad control for expansion down the road as wanted. (All without the Lutron arrogance!)



Not sure what's motivating that last statement. As a dealer who's company has done Lutron lighting controls for almost 20 years (since the very original Homeworks systems), there's only one statement that summarizes why one chooses Lutron, "Rock solid reliability." Of all the manufacturers we work with across all the disciplines of technology we deal with, no company stands up to Lutron in terms of reliability. That plus they go above and beyond when it comes to standing behind their products. If that means paying a small premium for their product, then it's more than worth the extra investment.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No banks of wall acme decora rocker switches etc. (What does this one do, what does that one do? Sure you would eventually memorize most but geee, should one have to?) Nice clean, high quality, keypads, back lit engraved push buttons at an affordable price. Lifetime warranty to the original owner. I had a client in the office today with their builder and we offered the g! system combined with the best in hard button control by LiteTouch. A perfect 1, 2 punch at an affordable price.



While I agree that RA2 requires the use of individual dimmers and switches for all loads, anyone looking to do a system with minimal wall clutter and keypads would be better served by a Homeworks system from the Lutron offerings. This would be more comparable to the LiteTouch solution you describe.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think your on track with g! no doubt though. It's real slick at a good price point...now, if they would just get a an Android app going and the world would be perfect. (I mean, seeing how the Android platform is out selling iphone now.) All you Elan dealers, give your Elan regional an earful about this.



While I'm an iPhone user myself, from a business perspective I agree with you that they need to make an Android solution a higher priority.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was recently told by my installer that the Elang G system is IP based and therefore due to this the alarm keypads may not function if the the internet connection is down.
> 
> Due to this they have recommended HAI touchscreen near front entry doors.
> 
> Is this correct?



By "alarm keypads" I assume you mean HAI security keypads and not the virtual security keypads on the Elan g! Interface? If that is the case, this is completely bogus info and sounds more like a dealer trying to sell you more hardware. As a dealer myself, dealers who lie about things to make more sales only hurt our industry by creating distrust in potential clients.


The fact of the matter is your HAI security system works autonomously from the Elan system. The Elan system could go completely haywire and the HAI system would continue to work just fine from it's own keypads. The g! system simply queries the security system for status info and sends commands when you arm/disarm from the g! interface.


If your dealer was talking about the Elan touchscreens only, because he has no security (HAI) keypads, there's still some misinformation there. While the Elan touchscreens are in fact IP based, they are completely independent of an Internet connection. There only needs to be the internal LAN network operational so that they can communicate with the main processor. So unless your router or switch fails, you'll be fine.


But as Frederick eluded to earlier, I would always design in a hard button security keypad somewhere as a fail safe since we are talking about a life/safety system.


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> By "alarm keypads" I assume you mean HAI security keypads and not the virtual security keypads on the Elan g! Interface? If that is the case, this is completely bogus info and sounds more like a dealer trying to sell you more hardware. As a dealer myself, dealers who lie about things to make more sales only hurt our industry by creating distrust in potential clients.
> 
> 
> The fact of the matter is your HAI security system works autonomously from the Elan system. The Elan system could go completely haywire and the HAI system would continue to work just fine from it's own keypads. The g! system simply queries the security system for status info and sends commands when you arm/disarm from the g! interface.
> 
> 
> If your dealer was talking about the Elan touchscreens only, because he has no security (HAI) keypads, there's still some misinformation there. While the Elan touchscreens are in fact IP based, they are completely independent of an Internet connection. There only needs to be the internal LAN network operational so that they can communicate with the main processor. So unless your router or switch fails, you'll be fine.
> 
> 
> But as Frederick eluded to earlier, I would always design in a hard button security keypad somewhere as a fail safe since we are talking about a life/safety system.



He was talking about the ts7 touchscreen. Was suggesting we need to put hai screen as well due to ip address issue. Sounds like I may not be getting right info from my installer. I do have a hard keypad for my alarm system in my basement.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/20272880
> 
> 
> He was talking about the ts7 touchscreen. Was suggesting we need to put hai screen as well due to ip address issue.



An HAI touch screen is NOT needed.


A HAI touch screen would work but it would just confuse things, I think.


----------



## Airric

As Frederick said, no need for an HAI touchscreen. Talk about redundancy... Now if he had said to put in another HAI security keypad up in the main area, then I would probably agree at that point since you said your only security keypad currently is in the basement. If the Elan system was having issues for some reason, then by putting another keypad upstairs in the main area, you wouldn't have to run down to the basement every time you wanted to arm/disarm the security.


----------



## WildWest

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Airric* 
Not sure what's motivating that last statement. As a dealer who's company has done Lutron lighting controls for almost 20 years (since the very original Homeworks systems), there's only one statement that summarizes why one chooses Lutron, "Rock solid reliability." Of all the manufacturers we work with across all the disciplines of technology we deal with, no company stands up to Lutron in terms of reliability. That plus they go above and beyond when it comes to standing behind their products. If that means paying a small premium for their product, then it's more than worth the extra investment.
It was motivated by Lutron and my experience with them. They are well known for it. While Lutron makes a quality product and I won't argue that, I'll put LiteTouch up against Homeworks all day and win too. As a Certified Lighting Consultant with the American Lighting Association I did my home work related to finding the best occupant interface hard button keypad that I could include in my CAD designs and installs. Not to mention the best industry warranty in the business for the life of the system to the original owner. Ask Lutron for that and they will laugh.


Quote:

Originally Posted by *Airric* 
While I agree that RA2 requires the use of individual dimmers and switches for all loads, anyone looking to do a system with minimal wall clutter and keypads would be better served by a Homeworks system from the Lutron offerings. This would be more comparable to the LiteTouch solution you describe.
Well, that's your opinion and since you are a Lutron installer I am not surprised. But again, LiteTouch is a _sister_ company of Elan and a superior match. Not to mention there is no way the Homeworks keypad has anything over the LiteTouch offerings. No way, no how, case closed. And before I flew out for factory training related to the best residential lighting control I looked at pretty much all the big players and LiteTouch clearly offers the best interface on the wall and product warranty in the business.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> It was motivated by Lutron and my experience with them. They are well known for it. While Lutron makes a quality product and I won't argue that, I'll put LiteTouch up against Homeworks all day and win too. As a Certified Lighting Consultant with the American Lighting Association I did my home work related to finding the best occupant interface hard button keypad that I could include in my CAD designs and installs. Not to mention the best industry warranty in the business for the life of the system to the original owner. Ask Lutron for that and they will laugh.



I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Lutron, mine has been quite the opposite as yours. But to make the statement that they are "well known" for being arrogant seems much more like a claim you make to simply substantiate your opinion, then a factual one. While I'm sure that you are not the only person in the world to feel the way you do about Lutron, I would venture to say that you are certainly in the minority as it pertains to their reputation and product offering.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, that's your opinion and since you are a Lutron installer I am not surprised. But again, LiteTouch is a sister company of Elan and a superior match. Not to mention there is no way the Homeworks keypad has anything over the LiteTouch offerings. No way, no how, case closed. And before I flew out for factory training related to the best residential lighting control I looked at pretty much all the big players and LiteTouch clearly offers the best interface on the wall and product warranty in the business.



You keep harping on the fact that Elan and LiteTouch are "sister" companies as if that alone implies that they somehow work better together than any other lighting control system does with g! First, Elan has a single driver written for LiteTouch and it is a beta version of the driver (there is no integration note listed for it on either the Elan dealer site or in the Common Resource Library).


Second, the only relationship Elan and LiteTouch share is the fact that they are two separate companies that both happen to be under the Linear Group umbrella and ultimately owned by Nortek. That's like implying that Speakercraft and Elan should work incredible together simply because they are also "sister" companies. I would claim they are just as much competing with each other as they are "sister" companies. The truth is, Elan, like every other automation manufacturer, is driven by market demands. If tomorrow, every Elan dealer said I'm using "XYZ" manufacturer's products and I need you to integrate with them, you better believe Elan is going to write the best possible driver they can to satisfy their dealer base, regardless of their relationship to "XYZ" company.


You also appear to have misinterpreted my comments about Lutron Homeworks. I was simply saying that comparing RA2 to your LiteTouch system was not an apples to apples comparison. RA2 is marketed more to the retrofit market, that is why they don't offer power panels, modules and lots of back room equipment in that line up. The fairer comparison to your points of wall clutter reduction is the Homeworks system from Lutron.


Whether one system is "better" than the other is purely a subjective matter. This is why I made no harsh criticisms of LiteTouch. I won't bash a competitor simply because I'm a Lutron dealer. All I can speak to is my stellar experience with Lutron and that I have no desire to change lighting control manufacturers any time soon.


In the end, I'm glad that you are extremely satisfied with LiteTouch. It's good when dealers work with manufacturers that they are confident and happy with. I simply questioned the need for you to come on this thread and make harsh remarks about a company like Lutron, especially unprovoked.


----------



## JOJO888

Airric,your opinion is very helpful. I saw more lutron in g! driver list than litetouch. In fact, this confused me early. By the way, I do not like driver list mechanism of g!. It is really easy to setup.But I prefer a opener platform for control. We do not know what we will meet at next case.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JOJO888* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Airric,your opinion is very helpful. I saw more lutron in g! driver list than litetouch. In fact, this confused me early. By the way, I do not like driver list mechanism of g!. It is really easy to setup.But I prefer a opener platform for control. We do not know what we will meet at next case.



Well, you'll be happy to hear that Elan will be coming out with an SDK later this year for 3rd party developers to write drivers for the g! System. Can't tell you exactly when or who exactly will have access to it though.


----------



## JOJO888

wow!It is really a good news. If without that,I don't know how g! can compete with control4.


----------



## DallasKnox

Everyone,


I just wanted to say thank you to everyone contributing to this thread. I have been beating my self up debating between a Control 4 and Elan system and this thread has really helped.


A quick question about the IP based control. I am heavily invested in Media Center and have found a company called autonomics that writes a TCP/IP control protocol for Crestron, AMX and a few other companies. Has anyone seen this software used in any of the ELAN systems or even in their legacy systems.


Heres a link to the companies website. http://www.autonomiccontrols.com/ 


Thanks

Dallas Knox


----------



## WildWest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Lutron, mine has been quite the opposite as yours. But to make the statement that they are "well known" for being arrogant seems much more like a claim you make to simply substantiate your opinion, then a factual one. While I'm sure that you are not the only person in the world to feel the way you do about Lutron, I would venture to say that you are certainly in the minority as it pertains to their reputation and product offering.



While it may seem like a "claim" but in my experience it really isn't, what can I say? Where ever I go, what ever seminar I attend, whenever someone brings it up, all the heads nod in agreement so all I can do is react to that. It can't just be me and I don't see it as a minority.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> You keep harping on the fact that Elan and LiteTouch are "sister" companies as if that alone implies that they somehow work better together than any other lighting control system does with g! First, Elan has a single driver written for LiteTouch and it is a beta version of the driver (there is no integration note listed for it on either the Elan dealer site or in the Common Resource Library).



Does it sound that way, hmmmm guess I am simply excited about the superior occupant interface that a LiteTouch/Elan g! interface offers. While it is true it is in beta, with the addition of the new LiteTouch 5k CCU I'm not surprised by this. I've been talking with HomeLogic engineers and stay tuned for this integration note shortly



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> You also appear to have misinterpreted my comments about Lutron Homeworks. I was simply saying that comparing RA2 to your LiteTouch system was not an apples to apples comparison. RA2 is marketed more to the retrofit market, that is why they don't offer power panels, modules and lots of back room equipment in that line up. The fairer comparison to your points of wall clutter reduction is the Homeworks system from Lutron.



Wait...you said:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> While I agree that RA2 requires the use of individual dimmers and switches for all loads, anyone looking to do a system with minimal wall clutter and keypads would be better served by a Homeworks system from the Lutron offerings. This would be more comparable to the LiteTouch solution you describe.



So, I simply did not agree that Homeworks would offer one better service as you stated, I'm familiar with both products and as I said earlier. Before I flew out for any training, I did my homework on industry offerings. And as I said, since I am a Certified Lighting Consultant whom needed the best occupant hard button interface to support our designs and installations I choose LiteTouch. I mean, what can I say? I'm a lighting designer and there is so much more to control than some (non lighting designers) may realize. I was published about this very issue in CEPro magazine some months back.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> Whether one system is "better" than the other is purely a subjective matter. This is why I made no harsh criticisms of LiteTouch. I won't bash a competitor simply because I'm a Lutron dealer. All I can speak to is my stellar experience with Lutron and that I have no desire to change lighting control manufacturers any time soon.



Purely subjective?? I do not agree for when I sit around the board room table with architects, builders and their clients I ask them to please, let's compare one to the other. Bring in a Crestron a Lutron, anyone's keypad and their listed options, then put it next to the LiteTouch offering and the proof is right in front of them. They can touch it, they can experience it and see the difference in options for keypads. Not to mention the industries best warranty to the original owner...lifetime.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20347248
> 
> 
> In the end, I'm glad that you are extremely satisfied with LiteTouch. It's good when dealers work with manufacturers that they are confident and happy with. I simply questioned the need for you to come on this thread and make harsh remarks about a company like Lutron, especially unprovoked.



It was not my intention to make "harsh" comments and clearly my frustration in experience and dealings with Lutron and their rep. came through. As I previously stated, Lutron makes a quality product without a doubt. Lot's of firms make a quality product. What it comes down to however is what qualities are superior to another and this was the only point I was trying to make in my contribution to help someone posting this thread. I don't come into this forum much and only found this thread via a search about something related to Elan g! With that, I have nothing more to say in the LiteTouch/Lutron issue. What matters to me is when we are in competition with others selling Lutron Homeworks we always win the job. (Recently we beat Homeworks and Crestron at a Marriott Hotel retrofit changing out an old EDI control. It wasn't just our number either, the chief engineer told us it was more the warranty and support offered after the sale.)


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WildWest* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> With that, I have nothing more to say in the LiteTouch/Lutron issue.



Finally we agree







Let's put this debate to rest as it is adding nothing more to this thread.


----------



## JOJO888

I believe both of litetouch and lutron are good products. It is good for SI to have different choice. In my opinion, lutron's marketing job seems better.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DallasKnox* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Everyone,
> 
> 
> I just wanted to say thank you to everyone contributing to this thread. I have been beating my self up debating between a Control 4 and Elan system and this thread has really helped.
> 
> 
> A quick question about the IP based control. I am heavily invested in Media Center and have found a company called autonomics that writes a TCP/IP control protocol for Crestron, AMX and a few other companies. Has anyone seen this software used in any of the ELAN systems or even in their legacy systems.
> 
> 
> Heres a link to the companies website. http://www.autonomiccontrols.com/
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dallas Knox



Dallas,


Elan does not currently have any integration with Autonomics. Knowing their software engineers priorities in the short term, I would not think that an Autonomics IP driver is coming anytime soon.


That being said, Elan is currently working on an SDK that will allow third party developers to write their own drivers for the g! system. This is realistically your best hope for g! integration with Autonomics. As to timetable, don't realistically expect the SDK until late this year or Q1 2012.


If you absolutely HAVE TO have it working earlier than that, then Elan g! is probably not going to be the answer. My personal opinion is that it will be worth the wait considering your alternative choice. But then again, I am an Elan dealer so most would consider me biased.


----------



## nolanpb

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.


We just had a g! system installed in our house when we did a gut rehab. The new HR2 remotes (which are awesome) were finally received last week so the system is fully up and running. We are controlling media, security, and HVAC. We might do lights in the future but it was lowest on my priority and we had tapped out our budget. I (and my whole family) could not be more happy with the results. As my wife likes to say, everything just works.


Nolan


----------



## uscmatt99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nolanpb* /forum/post/20454769
> 
> 
> I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.
> 
> 
> We just had a g! system installed in our house when we did a gut rehab. The new HR2 remotes (which are awesome) were finally received last week so the system is fully up and running. We are controlling media, security, and HVAC. We might do lights in the future but it was lowest on my priority and we had tapped out our budget. I (and my whole family) could not be more happy with the results. As my wife likes to say, everything just works.
> 
> 
> Nolan



Great to hear Nolan! As another set of future users, my wife and I are excited with what is to come. My choices really evolved throughout the course of the thread with the help of other forum members, for which I'm very appreciative.


Would you care to share your setup, and what you like most?


We will have one HC-12, 2 TS-7 pads (in master bedroom and kitchen), and 2 licenses for iDevice usage. We're getting HR-2 remotes for the family room, media room, and master bedroom. Distributed audio system is the Niles GXR2 with 6 zones and sources, but with only a couple of Niles touchpads for quick on-off control of music presets, otherwise controlled by the media tab. Lighting is Lutron Ra2 and the radio controlled shades. We got the tabs for media, security, DVR, video, climate, lighting and irrigation.


We only did lighting on the main floor, and have some additional rooms and outside areas wired for future audio. Nice that both are relatively painless upgrades other than cost. I don't forsee much else that needs to be done, and I can't wait to live in this house!


----------



## nolanpb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *uscmatt99* /forum/post/20455091
> 
> 
> 
> Would you care to share your setup, and what you like most?



Dont mind sharing at all. We have the HC-6, M86A, 3 HR2 remotes, plus 2 licenses for iDevice. We have 6 audio zones including indoor and outdoor. We live in an old bungalow style house so we decided on having one HR2 for each floor. They are kept in the main video zones and we haven't felt like we need to more have control points. Also having the iDevice license makes it easy because my phone is always most likely in my pocket. We do have some wall volume control for audio only zones. The TS7 seem cool but we are going without them for now.


To answer what we like most is kind of summed up in my previous post, it just works. My parents have a control system by AMX and where I work there is a Crestron system, while they both work the g! system just seems more intuitive. My 5 year old son figured out the HR2 without us even having to teach him. I also love being woken up early on Saturday morning by my other son and telling him to go to the basement and I can turn on the TV down there roll over and go back to sleep. I know that it might not be the best parenting and every control system can do it, but I love it.


If I had one complaint is that for some of the programming (like setting up your thermostat) is really only done through a PC connection. I think you can do them through the TS7 but I dont have one. I would think that with the screen real estate of an iPad they could do it. Of course I am sure they want to sell their own hardware.


I have yet to set up the music server so that will be my weekend adventure.


If you have any other questions I am happy to answer any.


Nolan


----------



## JOJO888

thx.Then how about your lighing and climate sub-systems?


----------



## uscmatt99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nolanpb* /forum/post/20456069
> 
> 
> Dont mind sharing at all. We have the HC-6, M86A, 3 HR2 remotes, plus 2 licenses for iDevice. We have 6 audio zones including indoor and outdoor. We live in an old bungalow style house so we decided on having one HR2 for each floor. They are kept in the main video zones and we haven't felt like we need to more have control points. Also having the iDevice license makes it easy because my phone is always most likely in my pocket. We do have some wall volume control for audio only zones. The TS7 seem cool but we are going without them for now.
> 
> 
> To answer what we like most is kind of summed up in my previous post, it just works. My parents have a control system by AMX and where I work there is a Crestron system, while they both work the g! system just seems more intuitive. My 5 year old son figured out the HR2 without us even having to teach him. I also love being woken up early on Saturday morning by my other son and telling him to go to the basement and I can turn on the TV down there roll over and go back to sleep. I know that it might not be the best parenting and every control system can do it, but I love it.
> 
> 
> If I had one complaint is that for some of the programming (like setting up your thermostat) is really only done through a PC connection. I think you can do them through the TS7 but I dont have one. I would think that with the screen real estate of an iPad they could do it. Of course I am sure they want to sell their own hardware.
> 
> 
> I have yet to set up the music server so that will be my weekend adventure.
> 
> 
> If you have any other questions I am happy to answer any.
> 
> 
> Nolan



Thanks for all of that Nolan. The HR-2 remotes seem to be pretty unique at this price point, in terms of controlling local AV equipment as well as interfacing with the other subsystems. I think it's going to be so sweet to be able to hit one button, have all the AV equipment come on, the lights dim, and the window shades come down. Even better, you can hit that button from a different room with this system, so I can activate the home theater from the kitchen prior to going down to the basement, and just have to pop in the disc. When you want to go to sleep, first turn on your upstairs lights, adjust the climate control, then turn off your whole main floor system, all from the HR-2. Heck, I'm just glad I won't have to use 4 or 5 remotes every time I want to turn something on and off!


The TS-7 pads were a tough pill to swallow given that the iPad is much cheaper, has more real estate on the screen and does so much more. If we could have kept a wall mounted iPad logged in constantly, I would have opted for that. The main reason for the touchpads was that they are constantly on, and we can see video feeds in real time quite easily. This is my family's first foray into suburbia from city living, and my wife watches too much "Criminal Minds" on TV, so the security features were important to us.


Good luck with the music server setup. It was guaranteed to me a million times that the Niles system would seamlessly integrate with g! with 2-way control, so it had better work. I was sold on it in the end based on the swappable source cards and the ability of the amp to handle 2-ohm loads, so we can run 4 speakers per zone easily. We also put up some simple pads that have 6 favorite hot buttons and volume control. Beyond that we always have an iPhone on us for music selections.


I'm looking forward to living with this system. All of the components go in this week and next. I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nolanpb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If I had one complaint is that for some of the programming (like setting up your thermostat) is really only done through a PC connection. I think you can do them through the TS7 but I dont have one. I would think that with the screen real estate of an iPad they could do it. Of course I am sure they want to sell their own hardware.
> 
> 
> Nolan



You're correct, any native Elan interface can do the advanced functions like Climate and Lighting schedules.


Elan has told me ever since their iPad app released last CEDIA, that their goal was to eventually have the iPad app indistinguishable from their native interfaces. So it's not a matter of if, it's when. Technically, the iPad app is still considered in beta form. Elan has just been so swamped the last 8 months with so many product launches (HC6/12, TS7, HR2, HC4/8, TS10, etc) that all of their engineering resources have been allocated to those launches. Now that the vast majority of their product lineup is shipping, I think we will see a lot more feature upgrades going forward (i.e. iPad app update, SDK, multiple-HC controller capability, HR2 feature additions, etc.)


----------



## JOJO888

Eric,did you try HC12's music streaming founction? I have no M86A. I heard both of them can be viewed as a music server system based on controlling. How about it in your opinion?


----------



## chomperoni

Anyone know what the retail price is for the new ts10?


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone know what the retail price is for the new ts10?



$2200


----------



## Conny HCE

Hi,


I have tested ELAN g! HC6 in my home for a while now and I like the system very much. I have a Integra DTR-9.9 and from that I have 3 zones in my home. HomeCinema, Kitchen and Outside. We are controlling the system by iPhone and iPad (HR2 is not available in Sweden yet).


My wife think that is the best controlsystem I have tested at home.


// Conny


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JOJO888* /forum/post/20469810
> 
> 
> Eric,did you try HC12's music streaming founction? I have no M86A. I heard both of them can be viewed as a music server system based on controlling. How about it in your opinion?



Sorry for the delay in getting back to you JOJO. The M86A is nothing more than an audio matrix switcher, so it has nothing to do the music server functionality.


As far as the HCxx controller's music server capabilities, I am using it in my personal system at home via my HC6. Up until Elan just recently released the new 5.2 version of software, I always felt that the interface was really good, but feature wise it was behind the curve. There was only support for MP3 and WAV files, pretty limited if you ask me. Also, you can't sort your music by genre. For me personally, this is how I always view my library, no matter what I'm using (iPhone, iTunes, Elan, etc.). Other than this, the Elan user interface on their music server is very intuitive and easy to use. Easy to create playlists on the fly and browse your music collection.


The good news is that the new 5.2 core software made a major update to their music server capability. They not only added AAC support (iTunes users can rejoice), but they also added the capability to parse your iTunes XML file to import in your iTunes playlists and data. There's only one catch to this, the XML file has to be in the same folder that your music resides in. For HC12 and HC8 users that are using the internal HDD of the HC12 and HC8 for music storage, this means you would have to place a copy of your iTunes XML file on your HC's HDD. And every time you make changes to your iTunes playlists, you would have to manually update (via copy and paste) the XML file on your HC12 or HC8. Since I have an HC6 (no internal HDD), I use my Netgear ReadyNAS unit to store all my music. I then point my HC6 to the music folder on my NAS to stream my music through my HC6. I would have to put my iTunes XML file on my NAS in the music folder to get my playlist data into the Elan music server interface. This is also true of anyone using an HC4.


Other notes on music server capabilities are that the HC6/8/12 all have two audio outputs. This means that you can have two instances of the music server going at the same time. So two different music zones in your house can both be listening to the Elan music server at the same time independent of each other. The HC4 only has one audio output so all music zones in the house have to share the Elan music server.


Hope this answers your question.


----------



## Airric

Quote:

Originally Posted by *uscmatt99*
Thanks for all of that Nolan. The HR-2 remotes seem to be pretty unique at this price point, in terms of controlling local AV equipment as well as interfacing with the other subsystems. I think it's going to be so sweet to be able to hit one button, have all the AV equipment come on, the lights dim, and the window shades come down. Even better, you can hit that button from a different room with this system, so I can activate the home theater from the kitchen prior to going down to the basement, and just have to pop in the disc. When you want to go to sleep, first turn on your upstairs lights, adjust the climate control, then turn off your whole main floor system, all from the HR-2. Heck, I'm just glad I won't have to use 4 or 5 remotes every time I want to turn something on and off!
The HR2 is a very powerful remote. I still think there are a few minor tweaks Elan can make to the software to make it even easier to use, but they are minor gripes. Overall, it's a great product that you'll be happy with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *uscmatt99*
The TS-7 pads were a tough pill to swallow given that the iPad is much cheaper, has more real estate on the screen and does so much more. If we could have kept a wall mounted iPad logged in constantly, I would have opted for that. The main reason for the touchpads was that they are constantly on, and we can see video feeds in real time quite easily. This is my family's first foray into suburbia from city living, and my wife watches too much "Criminal Minds" on TV, so the security features were important to us.
As I've alluded to in an earlier post, there is still good reason to spec TS7's into a system besides the always on argument.

(1) For the mean time, dedicated Elan interfaces, like the TS7, are the only way to manipulate climate and lighting schedules, not currently available on the iPhone/iPad app.

(2) Also like you mentioned, the TS7/TS10 can accept direct analog video feeds (like from a composite video matrix switcher) to display things like security cameras, cable/sat boxes, etc. without the need for an analog-to-IP converter (which can get costly for good quality ones).

(3) There are also a couple of other minor things in the interface that are advantages for the TS7 over the iPad. Things like playlist creation and manipulation on the music server interface and Shoutcast internet radio interface are examples of things currently only available on the Elan interfaces. These will eventually make their way to the iPad, but no idea when.

Quote:

Originally Posted by *uscmatt99*
Good luck with the music server setup. It was guaranteed to me a million times that the Niles system would seamlessly integrate with g! with 2-way control, so it had better work. I was sold on it in the end based on the swappable source cards and the ability of the amp to handle 2-ohm loads, so we can run 4 speakers per zone easily. We also put up some simple pads that have 6 favorite hot buttons and volume control. Beyond that we always have an iPhone on us for music selections.


I'm looking forward to living with this system. All of the components go in this week and next. I'll keep everyone posted.
Mostly good news for you on the Niles integration front. Your Niles piece does have a 2-way driver in g!, the only potential downside is it's still considered a beta version. Hopefully it will work fine for you. Let us know how your install goes.


----------



## JOJO888

Yes,clearly.Thank you very much.I advise you to be CEDIA teacher. You will be good at it.


----------



## philg5140

Very new to Elan g! But have a basic question. How do you initially set up either internal music on hc 8 or 12 or nas on 4 or 6? After that how would a client get music on the drive? Replacing the XML file after every cd purchase seems a bit much for an end user.


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philg5140* /forum/post/20504978
> 
> 
> Very new to Elan g! But have a basic question. How do you initially set up either internal music on hc 8 or 12 or nas on 4 or 6? After that how would a client get music on the drive? Replacing the XML file after every cd purchase seems a bit much for an end user.



I would also like to know this. Is there a way to point the system to the itunes folder or perhaps through apple tv ?


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philg5140* /forum/post/20504978
> 
> 
> Very new to Elan g! But have a basic question. How do you initially set up either internal music on hc 8 or 12 or nas on 4 or 6? After that how would a client get music on the drive? Replacing the XML file after every cd purchase seems a bit much for an end user.



For using the internal HDD of either the HC12 or HC8, it's actually pretty easy for the end user to add their music. The internal HDD can be accessed by any computer on the local network just like a network share on a NAS. The share directory is as follows:


\\\\HCxx\\Music


If you typed the above link into Windows Explorer of any computer on the same local network as the HC controller, you would have folder access to the internal HDD of either the HC12 or HC8. At this point, adding music would be as simple as dragging and dropping your music from your current location to the HC controller.


This music folder is already setup in g! by default, so no need for extra setup by the programmer.


As far as setting up an HC6 or HC4 to read music off a NAS or local computer on the network, this does require some setup by the programmer in the g! configurator. You need to know the share directory and folder of where your music is stored and this gets entered into the configurator. The great thing about g! is, if you have multiple locations or folders where music is stored (like I do on my system), g! allows you to point to multiple locations and then consolidates them into one library in the Music server interface.


As far as the XML file is concerned, it mainly only has to do with playlists. So the only time you would need to manually update the XML file is if the end user modified their iTunes playlists. Other than that, adding new music has nothing to do with the XML file.


----------



## Airric

Quote:

Originally Posted by *chomperoni* 
I would also like to know this. Is there a way to point the system to the itunes folder or perhaps through apple tv ?
You theoretically could point to the location of your iTunes folder where your XML file is located, but typically this is on your local computer. This may be an issue if this machine is not on all the time or if your machine is a laptop that isn't always physically on the network (take it to work, school, etc.).


Unfortunately, Apple shut the door hard on the automation world with the latest Apple TV 2, so there is no integration with them no matter which automation system you use.


----------



## philg5140

Thanks for detailed reply airric. I'm trying to decide the best way fir my customers to access music using g! I'm a big Request guy and while realize these are two very different price points I can't see my customers dragging a folder(I'm assuming you mean at the folder level) to an internal or NAS drive. How about the iPort option? Any experience with that yet? Also, I'm wondering if g! Supports the new IP iPort (fs23) instead of the 22(rs232)?


Cheers


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airric* /forum/post/20505444
> 
> 
> You theoretically could point to the location of your iTunes folder where your XML file is located, but typically this is on your local computer. This may be an issue if this machine is not on all the time or if your machine is a laptop that isn't always physically on the network (take it to work, school, etc.).
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, Apple shut the door hard on the automation world with the latest Apple TV 2, so there is no integration with them no matter which automation system you use.



Thank you Eric. I plan on having a home server for photos, movies and music which I am hoping the HC 12 would be able to access.

Getting excited about completing my new home in two months.


----------



## Airric




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *philg5140* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for detailed reply airric. I'm trying to decide the best way fir my customers to access music using g! I'm a big Request guy and while realize these are two very different price points I can't see my customers dragging a folder(I'm assuming you mean at the folder level) to an internal or NAS drive. How about the iPort option? Any experience with that yet? Also, I'm wondering if g! Supports the new IP iPort (fs23) instead of the 22(rs232)?
> 
> 
> Cheers



Sorry for the extremely long delay getting back to this thread, been a hectic month.


As far as the choice between using the g! Media server solution or integrating g! with a standalone media server like Request, it will all depend upon each client. Both solutions have their pluses and minuses. Simply from the end user interface on the g! side, both will look identical. The biggest difference is how you get to the end product. The Request will typically be much easier for the end user to consolidate their media but much more expensive to implement. The g! solution will be more involving for the end user, but much more cost effective. It's up to you and I as integrators to qualify each client to see what the best solution is for each.


As far as iPort, the FS22 is obviously supported and works well in the systems I've used it in. As of right now, they have not updated the driver for the new IP based FS23.


----------



## markrubin

Hey guys: slightly OT but I need suggestions:


I want to replace an old Elan HD2000 system and have been looking at several multiroom systems including Russound and Elan: currently the Elan S86P X2 is at the top of my list


My needs are:


6 input sources

12 output zones audio only: I have amps so only need a preamp

using RTI RK3 touchpads: IR is fed direct to zone inputs/ also send RS232 commands from XP8

Doorbell tone generator required

must be compatible with RTI 2 way drivers (S86 is compatible)

prefer ethernet interface but RS232 is OK


my other choice is the Russound E with an expansion module series but it is a lot more expensive and requires all new programming. Or wait for RTI AD8


any comments or other suggestions?


TIA


----------



## Jannejansson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys: slightly OT but I need suggestions:
> 
> 
> I want to replace an old Elan HD2000 system and have been looking at several multiroom systems including Russound and Elan: currently the Elan S86P X2 is at the top of my list
> 
> 
> My needs are:
> 
> 
> 6 input sources
> 
> 12 output zones audio only: I have amps so only need a preamp
> 
> using RTI RK3 touchpads: IR is fed direct to zone inputs/ also send RS232 commands from XP8
> 
> Doorbell tone generator required
> 
> must be compatible with RTI 2 way drivers (S86 is compatible)
> 
> prefer ethernet interface but RS232 is OK
> 
> 
> my other choice is the Russound E with an expansion module series but it is a lot more expensive and requires all new programming. Or wait for RTI AD8
> 
> 
> any comments or other suggestions?
> 
> 
> TIA



I would go for Elan , nice Ã* simple programing, and you can easy upgrade to Elan G! And Controll all your gear With your IPhone ,iPod, iPad.


/JJ


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jannejansson* /forum/post/20810171
> 
> 
> I would go for Elan , nice Ã* simple programing, and you can easy upgrade to Elan G! And Controll all your gear With your IPhone ,iPod, iPad.
> 
> 
> /JJ



Thanks


I ordered the Elan S86P and bought a used Z600


I just set up the new RTI iPad app so I am good (very nice app)


----------



## Airric

Good choice Mark, the S86P is a very flexible unit that works with more than just it's own control system (g!). It will allow you to do video switching in the future for cameras or video preview. Plus it can be stacked all the way out to 24 zones.


----------



## donwhale

Some professional advice is hereby sought from people who are familiar with both HAI and Elan systems. All comments, advise and criticism are welcome.


I presently use HAI + Russound + Centralite + AppleTV for some of my installations, but total integration of all these elements is very difficult, as I can't get things to really work the way I like. I've been considering moving to C4 or Elan but I seem to be sold on Elan.


So far, I'm happy with Centralite for lighting, though the keypad looks cheap but the overall price point looks ok. I also want to retain HAI for security and alarm system, as I love the expansion panels which allow me to do lots of things such as Generator ATS control, which is mostly far from the main building.


I want to do away with Russound for Audio and Video because it does not give me the level of integration cum user interface I want with HAI. It creates keypad litters which server no other function aside the source control.


I would love to go with Elan for Touchscreens, Multiroom Audio and Video, Smart media sources, etc because of being able to use any of their interface to control any of the subsystems.It seem Elan can tie everything together into one intuitive interface, which is very hard to achieve with HAI.


From the foregoing, I have the following questions to ask:


1. Can I integration the Elan G! completely with HAI? The only thing I saw on HAI connectivity page about Elan is the VIA touchscreen and the SC-4 controller. Is there a two way integration between the HAI Omnipro and the Elan G! controllers?


2. I know that Centralite is a connectivity partner to Elan, is there any limitations in their integration?


3. Is there any possibility of integrating AppleTV/XBMC with Elan with full metadata? Is Elan discontinuing their VIA DJ line of products because it seems not be on their website unless through a search? What is the best way to do local Video streaming (may from a NAS) with Elan? Kaleidescape seems to be on the high side.


4. How customizable is the Elan Touchscreen? I understand it is a little static (when compare to the like of Crestron), but is it as customizable as HAI omnitouch IP touchscreen using Automation Studio? How does Automation Studio compare to the TS configurator?


5. How does thermostat interface with Elan controller? Is it through the sense input? Is it possible to connect thermostat to HAI panel and then integrate with Elan?


6. What is the criteria to becoming an Elan Dealer?


Thanking everyone to our responses.


----------



## ddurkee

We have tried to set up my system this way but so far we haven't had any luck getting it to import my iTunes playlists. I'd really like this to work because I find Elan's built-in methods for building and editing playlists to not fit my needs. (I'd like to be able to come across a song while it's playing and add it to a playlist on the fly. But all you can do is convert your entire Now Playing list to a playlist, or save it into an existing playlist. What I've actually done is built an iTunes library on my NAS drive for the dedicated purpose of providing content for the Elan music server. (i.e. it isn't a copy of my desktop library.) And I had the installer point the source folder to the iTunes library folder and also point to the iTunes XML file in that folder. But so far it hasn't picked up my iTunes playlists. Do you have any hints for me?


----------



## bamill111


Ddurkee,

 

Any luck with this? I have been trying to set this up for a week. I get all the music and playlists to come in, but when I play the songs, it just bounces down the list,, not playing any of them.


----------



## ddurkee

No, I gave up on trying to get it to import iTunes playlists. I haven't seen any evidence that it even tries.


----------



## bamill111


Bummer.

 

Elan says it will, just not having any luck. going to keep trying, their tech support is closed today. I will post back if I ever figure it out.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> From the foregoing, I have the following questions to ask:



I can give you some answers.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 1. Can I integration the Elan G! completely with HAI? The only thing I saw on HAI connectivity page about Elan is the VIA touchscreen and the SC-4 controller. Is there a two way integration between the HAI Omnipro and the Elan G! controllers?
> 
> 
> The most recent docs say that a network connection is NOT supported BUT they say the same about ELK and a network connection works with ELK so it might work with HAI.
> 
> 
> Most lighting features are supported but certain information must be entered manually (information about keypads and scenes).
> 
> 
> Wired OmniStat (1 and 2) thermostats are the only ones supported when connected to the HAI panel. Some features are not supported (humidity control, history display).





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 2. I know that Centralite is a connectivity partner to Elan, is there any limitations in their integration?
> 
> 
> The only system currently listed is Jetstream RF - there are no reported unsupported features.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 3. Is there any possibility of integrating AppleTV/XBMC with Elan with full metadata? Is Elan discontinuing their VIA DJ line of products because it seems not be on their website unless through a search? What is the best way to do local Video streaming (may from a NAS) with Elan? Kaleidescape seems to be on the high side.
> 
> 
> Don't know - sorry - don't use Apple products.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 4. How customizable is the Elan Touchscreen? I understand it is a little static (when compare to the like of Crestron), but is it as customizable as HAI omnitouch IP touchscreen using Automation Studio? How does Automation Studio compare to the TS configurator?
> 
> 
> It is NOT totally configurable as, say, Crestron. It is in the same class as Automation Studio but, IMO, easier to configure. The focus is on simple configuration and functionality as opposed to total graphic freedom.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 5. How does thermostat interface with Elan controller? Is it through the sense input? Is it possible to connect thermostat to HAI panel and then integrate with Elan?
> 
> 
> You can connect HAI OmniStat (1 and 2) thermostats directly to the Elan controller via a serial port (networked serial ports work too). It works well IMO. You still don't get humidity control but you do get history display. You don't get access to any external sensors connected to the thermostats.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donwhale*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_20821069
> 
> 
> 6. What is the criteria to becoming an Elan Dealer?
> 
> 
> Visit the web site:
> 
> http://www.elanhomesystems.com/become_a_dealer.asp




It you need more information I will do my best to get you answers.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_24239631
> 
> 
> Bummer.
> 
> 
> Elan says it will, just not having any luck. going to keep trying, their tech support is closed today. I will post back if I ever figure it out.



I don't use iTunes very often but I do have a Elan HC4 - I will give it a try also.


----------



## bamill111


From the integration note...

 

In the Configurator, go to the Content tab and add a new Audio Library Share Folder: d. Set the name to “iTunes”. e. Set the “Path- Music Files” field to point to the iTunes Media folder within iTunes using the following format: \\computername\sharename\iTunes Media, where “computername” is the UNC network name of the computer upon which iTunes resides, and “sharename” is the name given to the iTunes folder when it was shared. f. Set the “Path- iTunes XML” field to point to the root of the share you created above, \\computername\sharename, as this is where the iTunes Library.xml file should reside in a default installation. g. The username and password authentication feature is unsupported. Protected shares SHOULD NOT BE USED and are not supported at this time. h. See Adding Network Shares To An HC Controller above for more details on adding a network share and specific network share requirements, such as 24/7 access.


----------



## fcwilt

OK a simple iTunes library (I only purchased one album for testing) with playlists is working for me on my HC4 - I followed the instructions in the Elan integration note.


I first created a share on my PC (running Win7) and created the iTunes library there. I set the permissions as open as I know how but the HC4 could not access it.


So then I created a share on my Netgear Duo NAS and created the iTunes library there. This the HC4 could access - I was able to access and play individual tracks and well as playlists.


On the HC4 I am running: Version 6.3 Build 52.0 Rel, OS 6.0.14 : (IR Engine 1:0:2:3)


----------



## bamill111


Very interesting. I have tried that exact setup, but no luck. Only difference is I am on 6.4.... Just tried to back rev and doesn't look like I can do it.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_24242463
> 
> 
> Very interesting. I have tried that exact setup, but no luck. Only difference is I am on 6.4.... Just tried to back rev and doesn't look like I can do it.



What sort of problems do you encounter?


When trying to use the PC as the source I got an error as soon as I tried to add that share as content to the HC4.


Once I got the share on the NAS to work as content on the HC4, everything else worked without issue.


I'm not at all familiar with iTunes but I saw no way to direct iTunes to use the NAS for the entire iTunes "library" so I had to resort to creating it on my PC and then copying it to the NAS.


I found where could tell iTunes where the actual media files were to be found and when I moved them to the NAS that worked, but files like the "iTunes Music Library.xml" remained on the PC.


----------



## bamill111


Can you Screen shot your configurator Audio Share Folder Config page?


----------



## bamill111


For me it pulls in all of the music and playlists, but when you try to play them, the play just skips through them all.

 

 

With the iTunes.xml file on your PC you were still getting playlists?


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_24242514
> 
> 
> For me it pulls in all of the music and playlists, but when you try to play them, the play just skips through them all.
> 
> 
> 
> With the iTunes.xml file on your PC you were still getting playlists?



For the first test I copied the entire iTunes folder (and all sub-folders) to the NAS - which naturally included the XML file.


I had initially created just 2 playlists in iTunes and after I had done the complete folder copy (and told Elan to do a scan) then Elan displayed and played them without issue.


Then when I found the setting in iTunes to specify where the media files were to be found I tried that. I deleted the media files on the PC and pointed iTunes to the media files on the NAS.


iTunes found the media files on the NAS and played them without issue but it still kept updating the XML file (and I assume all the other non-media files) on the PC.


Then in iTunes I added a 3rd playlist - I could tell from the time stamp on the XML files that iTunes was only updating the local one on the PC.


Elan did not display the 3rd playlist until I copied the XML file to the NAS - I copied all of the other files in that folder as well since I don't have a clue what they do or if Elan needs them.


Some testing should show if Elan needs anything besides the XML file.


----------



## bamill111

That all makes sense and is exactly how it is supposed to work... again my only thought is different software versions. Both systems I have tried this with were on 6.4.


----------



## fcwilt

Just FYI there is an option to backup your configuration as well as the core files for the current version if you ever want to be able to go back to an older version - at least that's the theory.


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_24242615
> 
> 
> That all makes sense and is exactly how it is supposed to work... again my only thought is different software versions. Both systems I have tried this with were on 6.4.



On a hunch I went to the NAS just and changed the name of the folder where the media files were.


I was sure that Elan would not be able to find them AND the result was what you described


I selected a playlist and when I went hit play each item in the list was briefly highlighted. I assume that Elan tried to play the file, couldn't find it and quickly went on to the next. There were no "errors" of any sort.


----------



## fcwilt

I also forgot to mention that Elan is not displaying any album artwork.


----------



## bamill111


Ok,

 

Realized I had a client on 6.3 with a NAS, remoted in, copied my test iTunes folder over and same thing happened. So... what is the file structure you used and the process was to create a new iTunes and then copy it over?


----------



## fcwilt

OK follow up on album artwork:


A closer reading of the Elan integration note made it clear that I had to add a file named "folder.jpg" to each music folder. When I did that it worked. Though why Elan cannot get the artwork from the file tags I don't know.


----------



## bamill111


Still no luck. Created a new iTunes library etc. Could you post your XML file?


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/90#post_24242695
> 
> 
> Ok,
> 
> 
> Realized I had a client on 6.3 with a NAS, remoted in, copied my test iTunes folder over and same thing happened. So... what is the file structure you used and the process was to create a new iTunes and then copy it over?



I had installed iTunes on my PC to update my iPad. SInce I don't use iTunes for much I just went with the default install of iTunes and didn't pay much attention if there were any options.


In any case under "My Music" folder it created a "iTunes" folder.


Under that it created folders:

"Album Artwork" (with a bunch of folders under that)

"ITunes Media"


In the "iTunes" folder there were files:

iTunes Library Extras.itdb

iTunes Library Genius.itdb

iTunes Library.itl

ITunes Music Library.xml


Under the "ITunes Media" folder it created folders:

"Automatically Add to iTunes" (empty)

"Downloads" (empty)

"Music"


I purchased one album for testing from the iTunes store and it was downloaded to my PC.


Under the "Music" folder it created a folder for albums by the artist, using the artist name for the folder name.


Under that folder it created a folder for the album, using the title of the album for the folder name.


And in that folder were all of the .M4A files from the album, named according to the track and song name.


On the NAS I created a new share named "iTunes". I gave it R/W access and "Guest" access.


I copied the entire contents (files and sub-folders) of the folder "iTunes" to the new share.


----------



## fcwilt


iTunesMusicLibrary.xml 53k .xml file


Here is the XML that was last used (and it worked)


This is AFTER I configured iTunes to access the media files on the NAS. There are some oddly formed references to the NAS in the file.


But iTunes and Elan can play the tracks from the album without issue.


----------



## fcwilt

To determine the minimum folders/files that Elan needs I changed the setting in iTunes to store the media files in \\NAS1\iTunes rather then in \\NAS1\iTunes\iTunes Media - that latter format (iTunes\iTunes Media) was what existed on the PC - the result of doing a default install of iTunes I suppose.


When I changed the setting in iTunes it asked if I wanted to reorganize the music files - I answered yes and the result was the folder for the name of the artist now existed directly under \\NAS1\iTunes.


iTunes also created (under \\NAS1\iTunes) a file ".iTunes Preferences.plist" and a folder "Automatically Add to iTunes".


At that point I deleted all the other misc non-music files that existed in the folder \\NAS1\iTunes AND then copied the newly updated "iTunes Music Library.xml" file from the PC to \\NAS1\iTunes.


I deleted the existing content settings in Elan and created a new one for \\NAS1\iTunes but now both entries were the same (\\NAS1\iTunes).


I fired up the Elan client and everything still worked.


So it seems that all Elan needs are the music files and the XML file PLUS the album artwork file (named folder.jpg) in each album folder.


The integration notes say the Elan will search for missing album art - I need to verify this. Creating the "folder.jpg" file works but I would like to find a way to automate the creation of those files - that's for another day.


----------



## bamill111


To update this, I opened a ticket with Elan early last week, tech support worked on it for two days and have escalated to engineering. So frustrating, that this doesn't work.


----------



## bamill111


One thought I had, that they shot down.. FCWILT, do you have a pro media tab enabled?


----------



## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/120#post_24268097
> 
> 
> One thought I had, that they shot down.. FCWILT, do you have a pro media tab enabled?



Yes I do.


I also updated my system (and HC4) to the latest version 6.5 Build 221.0 Rel - it still works fine.


Tell me again what the symptoms are - perhaps a rehash will reveal something - I'm thinking NAS permissions at this point.


----------



## bamill111


It loads the  music playlists etc, but when playing it bounces down the list of songs, not playing.


----------



## fcwilt

Hi,


OK that was what I saw when the content entry in the HC4 (for the music files not the XML file) was wrong.


So some questions:


What type of hardware are you trying to connect to?

What is its name on the network?

What are the share names?

What are the permissions for the share?


Can you see the device in Windows Network "Explorer"?

Can you see the files in Windows?


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## bamill111


What type of hardware are you trying to connect to? WD Mybook live 

What is its name on the network? \\MYBOOKLIVE\iTunes

What are the share names? iTunes

What are the permissions for the share? Public, No authentication 

Can you see the device in Windows Network "Explorer"?  Yes

Can you see the files in Windows? Yes


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## bamill111


Something to note... I just upgraded to 6.5, now it shows an item count of 4000 songs, but does not show any in the viewer, It does show the playlist...


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## fcwilt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bamill111*  /t/1285247/any-elan-g-users-or-installs/120#post_24268882
> 
> 
> What type of hardware are you trying to connect to? WD Mybook live
> 
> What is its name on the network? \\MYBOOKLIVE\iTunes
> 
> What are the share names? iTunes
> 
> What are the permissions for the share? Public, No authentication
> 
> Can you see the device in Windows Network "Explorer"?  Yes
> 
> Can you see the files in Windows? Yes



Thanks!


The content entry you setup in Elan pointed to the "media" folder under the iTunes folder - not to the iTunes folder itself?


Now I have not used a WD MyBook so I don't know how it handles permissions but in Windows, for instance, the share has separate permission settings from the folders and files within the share. It's possible to have access to the share but not to contents of the share. Perhaps that may be true of this device as well.


Also Elan has to have read/write access to the share (and folders) since it attempts to write a "metadata" file or two.


Have you tried setting up a content entry in Elan that points to some MP3 files in a folder on this unit - skipping the "iTunes" mode for the moment?


Have you tired setting up a content entry in Elan that points to some "picture" files in a folder on this unit - and tried to view them with the Elan photo viewer?


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## fcwilt

OK I downloaded the manual for that WD unit.


It seems to be really limited in what settings you have access to. I saw information on private and public shares but nothing on the type of access (read/write vs read-only, permissions, etc).


But since you are seeing in Elan the song list it would seem you have access to the XML file.


And iTunes plays these songs fine?


Can you post that file and lets check the path(s) to the songs?


Thanks!


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## bamill111


From everything I can see it has full access, if I don't give it the xml file, everything plays fine. Also, I have tried this with iTunes on an XP machine and iTunes on a vista machine both at the customers site and in my house. Same result. I also, tried a 30day trial of the pro license for media, same result. XML file for my home setup.

 

Also, note, my home setup is \\mybooklive\public\itunes

 

Snippet of iTunes xml, my file is too large to upload

 

Major Version1 Minor Version1 Date2014-01-14T12:49:06Z Application Version11.0.4 Features5 Show Content Ratings Music Folderfile://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/ Library Persistent ID9859FB7EC218BF94 Tracks 3290 Track ID3290 NameLike a Stone ArtistAudioslave AlbumAudioslave GenreAlternative KindMPEG audio file Size4647834 Total Time290481 Year2002 Date Modified2007-10-13T20:36:50Z Date Added2013-06-26T13:38:34Z Bit Rate128 Sample Rate44100 Persistent IDDE49B25D73CDBC05 Track TypeFile Locationfile://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/Music/Audioslave/Audioslave/Like%20a%20Stone.mp3 File Folder Count5 Library Folder Count1 3292 Track ID3292 NamePearl's Girl ArtistUnderworld Album ArtistUnderworld ComposerJUNIOR BOY'S OWN AlbumEverything Everything: Live [IMPORT] [LIVE] GenreElectronica/Dance KindMPEG audio file Size9950328 Total Time497397 Disc Number1 Disc Count1 Track Number4 Year2000 Date Modified2008-03-20T22:37:10Z Date Added2013-06-26T13:38:34Z Bit Rate160 Sample Rate44100 Comments 00000CAF 00000A40 00003259 0000243F 00024A1E 00024A1E 00008000 00008000 00038287 0002BF65 Persistent ID15908DEC03E4CDC9 Track TypeFile Locationfile://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/Music/Underworld/Everything%20Everything_%20Live%20%5BIMPORT%5D%20%5BLI/04%20Pearl's%20Girl.mp3 File Folder Count5 Library Folder Count1 3294 Track ID3294 NameDoesn't Remind Me ArtistAudioslave AlbumOut Of Exile GenreAlternative KindMPEG audio file Size6806963 Total Time255817 Track Number4 Track Count12 Year2005 Date Modified2007-11-03T16:23:02Z Date Added2013-06-26T13:38:34Z Bit Rate212 Sample Rate44100 CommentsHighly anticipated new album from Audioslave, brought to you by the boys at XXL. Enjoy! Persistent ID536AFA67DD965C44 Track TypeFile Locationfile://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/Music/Audioslave/Out%20Of%20Exile/04%20Doesn't%20Remind%20Me.mp3 File Folder Count5 Library Folder Count1 3296 Track ID3296 NameSeven Nation Army ArtistAudioslave GenreRock KindMPEG audio file Size6169608 Total Time257044 Year2003 Date Modified2007-11-03T16:24:20Z Date Added2013-06-26T13:38:34Z Bit Rate192 Sample Rate44100 Persistent ID948AE917019C23D1 Track TypeFile Locationfile://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/Music/Audioslave/Unknown%20Album/Seven%20Nation%20Army.mp3 File Folder Count5 Library Folder Count1 3298


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## fcwilt

It may be that the content of your XML file is wrong.


For a content entry in Elan that doesn't use a iTunes XML file, Elan just uses the share as configured.


And under these circumstances you say it works which would indicate that permission wise all is well.


With the XML entry I'm not sure if Elan uses the content of the XML file for anything other the metadata.


Some parts of your XML seem odd.


For instance for one song in my XML file there is a fragment:


file://localhost//NAS1/itunes


In your file there is this fragment:


file://localhost/MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/


//MachineName is the normal URL syntax for specifying a machine on the network. //MachineName/ShareName is the normal URL syntax for specifying a share on that machine.


Notice in your file there is a single / before MYBOOKLIVE and double // before iTunes. I have not seen this before - I think (but am not sure) that it is wrong.


Also //NAS1/iTunes matches the share name on NAS1 but /MYBOOKLIVE//Itunes/ is not matching \\mybooklive\public\iTunes.


Is the XML file from the customers site or your home? If it is from the customers site what is the share name there?


Also is the iTunes app configured to find its media files on your server and if so what is the exact entry?


Thanks!


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