# Has ANYONE tried the Elite Cinegrey 5D screen yet?



## tsteele93

I am looking for a screen to go with my Panasonic AE8000 and I have a very dark room with controlled lighting. Has ANYONE tried this screen material. Elite called me and recommended this over the standard cinegrey, and said the standard white would be good, but this would be the best of all, I'd like to hear of SOMEONE who has tried it.

55

Anyone?


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## roxiedog13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tsteele93*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_23983220
> 
> 
> I am looking for a screen to go with my Panasonic AE8000 and I have a very dark room with controlled lighting. Has ANYONE tried this screen material. Elite called me and recommended this over the standard cinegrey, and said the standard white would be good, but this would be the best of all, I'd like to hear of SOMEONE who has tried it.
> 
> 55
> 
> Anyone?



They sent me a bunch of samples, I would suggest you do this for every product being considered. They tried to steer me towards the same material for some reason , they must be overstocked

















Seriously though, this can be a really expensive purchase and you'll be surprised how different the products are .


How big is the screen you will use, what aspect and how far from the screen is your PJ? Are you going to watch 3D, that is important too?


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## roxiedog13

Tried the Silver 5D and 3D was not impressed. The 1.8 gain is just not there . I would say it looks closer to 1.1. They claim, this is ok for passive and active 3D. It may be ok for passive, it does not work with the active glasses. In fact, just viewing the material in 2D without any glasses and it appears to be much dimmer than my 1.3 fabric. Same for the 3D .product . Works with ambient light like the Black Diamond product , I'm not sure that is what it was

advertized to do or not, very confusing IMHO .


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## ghus

Its super hard to find any reviews on the Cinegrey 5D material apparently. Anybody has any links with reviews/testimonials from other forums. I am trying to find a solution with ALR capabilities without breaking the bank with black diamond. How does this material compare with the SI black diamond or slate material? Also is it better to just stick with the powergain which seems to be have higher gain 1.8 vs 1.5,


In my case viewing angles are important and screen uniformity. It seems that black diamond may have a bit limited viewing angles and somewhat not 100% screen uniformity, or I could be wrong and this may have been resolved in current generations. How are the two elite products PowerGain and Cinegrey 5D performing in this category.


I understand that in light controlled room its better to go with a popular white and 1.4 gain or something but the ambient light in my case forces me to look for a trade off.


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## Jim_0068




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghus*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24302174
> 
> 
> Its super hard to find any reviews on the Cinegrey 5D material apparently. Anybody has any links with reviews/testimonials from other forums. I am trying to find a solution with ALR capabilities without breaking the bank with black diamond. How does this material compare with the SI black diamond or slate material? Also is it better to just stick with the powergain which seems to be have higher gain 1.8 vs 1.5,
> 
> 
> In my case viewing angles are important and screen uniformity. It seems that black diamond may have a bit limited viewing angles and somewhat not 100% screen uniformity, or I could be wrong and this may have been resolved in current generations. How are the two elite products PowerGain and Cinegrey 5D performing in this category.
> 
> 
> I understand that in light controlled room its better to go with a popular white and 1.4 gain or something but the ambient light in my case forces me to look for a trade off.



I'm in the same boat as you, here is the guy who posted the youtube video who gave a little more description:

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/32468/current-living-room-setup?page=1&scrollTo=556612 


"The CineGrey 5D material from Elite Screens is their answer to other brands' "ambient light rejecting" screen material -see, SI Black Diamond or dnp SuperNova. One thing to note about ambient light rejecting screens is this; they're not rejecting anything, they're merely more directional than traditional projection screens. This means that the angle with which your projector's lens is aimed at the screen will be mirrored back -albeit opposite or upside down -to your primary viewing chair(s). So if your projector is aimed downward at say 10-degrees (just spit-balling) then you need to make sure to mount the screen at such a height and sit far enough back so that your primary chairs are located somewhere in the vicinity of 10-degrees down of center. This will ensure that you get the brightest, most accurate image reproduction regardless of the lighting conditions in your room -provided of course your projector is the brightest source of direct light. So the screen itself isn't rejecting anything, it's merely reflecting back the brightest source of light in the room the most, which it assumes is stemming from your projector's lens. Sit off axis by too great a degree and the image does begin to wash out. If your off-axis angle also coincides with another light source, well, that source will be reflected back at you likely more clearly than the light coming from your projector. All so-called AMBIENT LIGHT REJECTING screens react this way.


In a light controlled environment the CineGrey 5D material becomes a light reflecting monster, meaning it can make your dull projector appear brighter than it really is. This also makes it prone to hot spotting and/or shimmer depending upon the source material. Again, this is not a knock against the CineGrey 5D but rather something you must consider when shopping for any ambient light rejecting screen material -SI or dnp included. Knowing that, and having lived with both SI's Black Diamond as well as dnp's SuperNova for a spell, I'd rather spend less for comparable performance which is why I side with Elite in this instance. The CineGrey 5D material is very comparable to the competition yet costs a fraction of the price. I believe prices for 100" diagonal EZ Frame screen with CineGrey 5D start at around $800 whereas a comparable SI screen will run you upwards of $2,699 plus shipping (100" Black Diamond G3, HD 1.4 gain fixed frame from Projector People)."


I think i'm going to pick one up and see how it goes.


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## ghus

Yeah its impossible to find any respectable reviews from the known sites or anywhere from that matter. I asked for a sample though to test it with my projector and light conditions. I would not say I was satisfied. The hotspoting was pretty amplified like nothing I have seen before and I am rookie having only tested a small number of samples out there. the screen sample was wierd i have to say. It looked more like a cut out of huge plastic disposal bag than anything else. I know it may sound bad, but I would advice to order one for your self and experiment. Customer service was fantastic and even though I like other material from elite this one not so impressive for my taste. I actually got a portable screen from elite that is more like standard white 1.1 to be able to transport to family and friends but the opening in my home theater room for a good performing gray is still open.


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## Jim_0068




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ghus*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24469792
> 
> 
> Yeah its impossible to find any respectable reviews from the known sites or anywhere from that matter. I asked for a sample though to test it with my projector and light conditions. I would not say I was satisfied. The hotspoting was pretty amplified like nothing I have seen before and I am rookie having only tested a small number of samples out there. the screen sample was wierd i have to say. It looked more like a cut out of huge plastic disposal bag than anything else. I know it may sound bad, but I would advice to order one for your self and experiment. Customer service was fantastic and even though I like other material from elite this one not so impressive for my taste. I actually got a portable screen from elite that is more like standard white 1.1 to be able to transport to family and friends but the opening in my home theater room for a good performing gray is still open.



Do they have a 1-800 number? I couldn't find anything but online web chat on their site.


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## ghus

Here's their site contact us page

http://www.elitescreenshop.com/contact-us-a/131.htm


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## kopkiwi

Anyone had experience with this screen? Any pictures someone can throw up?


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim_0068*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24469464
> 
> 
> 
> I think i'm going to pick one up and see how it goes.



Jim, have you received this screen and what are your impressions of it?


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## Jim_0068

No, i'm evaluating creating my own DIY screen and/or a former member created a black screen which i'm also looking into as well; except his is commerical and not DIY.


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## quamosa

I checked out the 120" CineGrey 5D and it was very inexpensive.. so I decided to go for it.

Will post results once its delivered and set up.


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim_0068*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24592421
> 
> 
> No, i'm evaluating creating my own DIY screen and/or a former member created a black screen which i'm also looking into as well; except his is commerical and not DIY.



Which black screen is this? Can you point me to it?


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## ben38

I ordered the 120 inch CINEGREY 5D earlier this week. Still waiting for the delivery. Once I have it installed and use it for a couple of days, I'll write a review.


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## ruggercb

I just ordered a 100" CineGrey 5D. I'm really curious about the performance. It's not shipping for at least a week, so I have time to cancel if this stuff isn't up to snuff.


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## quamosa

Nice! We have a couple of fearless trailblazers! I inquired Elite of the DarkStar screen they are offering under their premium line. It appears to be a DNP and Black Diamond killer. I spoke to a local seller this afternoon about this screen and unfortunately the prices I was quoted were killer too... a buzz killer!










This let me know the CineGrey5D is the best value I can get right now for the combination of higher gain and contrast. There's a few pics of the screen here on AVS that someone posted. The screen looked nice with a light on off to the side. Also on another forum there was a review with a pic of the screen with blinds cracked open to the side. The screen wasn't washed out at all.. not as dark as the higher priced black screens but still not too shabby for the price...


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## Gn0m4

Why don´t exist 2.35:1 curve format with this surface screen?


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## ruggercb

I'm looking forward to this. Right now I have a Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White pull down screen and an Optoma HD20. I have trouble with uniformity due to waves in the fabric, and also I get this strange moire pattern in my whites from the resolution of the projector and "resolution" of the screen material kind of clashing.


This is used in a bright room. It's light-controllable, but with little kids around and such I prefer not to watch movies and game in the dark, so this screen really does look like the holy grail of material, and yet at a price I can afford.


My big challenge is mounting it. My existing setup pulls down in front of a big window. Since this is fixed, I'm going to build a hinged setup to fold this to the ceiling when not in use, similar to what this fella did in this thread .


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## gotmilk516

Hey , I to am on the fence was going to get the Powergain but after calling Elite they said it's Discontinued and I should go with the Cinegrey cause it's much better anyway . Have ambient light that comes into the room during the day, could black it all out but would like it not so much of a dedicated cave. Bought a Epson 5030UB. Can't wait to see what your feedback is about the screen .


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## Jim_0068

Looking forward to your review.


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## gotmilk516

No hurry .... But I can't sleep at night !!!! Lol


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## quamosa

My order still hasnt shipped.







Amazon now says 1 - 4 weeks when I could've sworn when I ordered it said 1 week. I'll still assume my shipped by date of around April 25th - May is accurate.


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## ben38

Mine just came in yesterday. Ordered from B&H last Wednesday. Total time from order to delivery was 6 days.


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## gotmilk516

Depending on your feedback about the screen , on the fence a out cinewhite or cinegrey 5d , cause I do have ambient light I was going to order from B&H aswell . Think their in NYC I'm on Long Island .


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## ben38

Don't have time today to give a proper review. All I have to say is: Go for the Cinegrey 5D. B&H Is an excellent company to deal with, but i think they're closed this week for the holiday.


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## ruggercb

Mine is "out for delivery" today. If I can set it up tonight, I'll give some initial impressions and maybe a pic or two.


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## gotmilk516

Yes there closed till the 22nd I think for Passover


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## ruggercb

My quick initial impressions are this: you can't defeat physics and this screen isn't the holy grail, but this material is very good. My wife, who is not an A/V nut like myself, noticed an immediate difference. You can definitely watch this thing comfortably in a fully lit room.


It does suffer from hotspotting, but the further you sit from the screen, the less pronounced it is. I don't see the material texture or sparklies when I watch something as opposed to my last two screens. Also, the angle of projection is super important. My Optoma HD20 has a very shallow projection angle and I found that when I moved the screen up another 18 inches up the wall, the image was significantly brighter and more uniform(plus no more keystone!).


These are taken without moving the screen higher where the quality is better.


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruggercb*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24620453
> 
> 
> My quick initial impressions are this: you can't defeat physics and this screen isn't the holy grail, but this material is very good. My wife, who is not an A/V nut like myself, noticed an immediate difference. You can definitely watch this thing comfortably in a fully lit room.
> 
> 
> It does suffer from hotspotting, but the further you sit from the screen, the less pronounced it is. I don't see the material texture or sparklies when I watch something as opposed to my last two screens. Also, the angle of projection is super important. My Optoma HD20 has a very shallow projection angle and I found that when I moved the screen up another 18 inches up the wall, the image was significantly brighter and more uniform(plus no more keystone!).



Thanks for the pics. The screen looks great. Typically you get what you pay for but I think this is one situation where you get a little more than what you paid for. Its definitely viewable based on your pics and I would imagine even more so in person as well as with a projector with more lumens. My projector will be mounted in a soffit 18 feet from the screen and my screen will be about 12.5 inches down from the ceiling. I wonder if this distance and height will help with the hotspotting. How far is your projector from the screen and is it ceiling mounted?


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## gotmilk516

Looks good thank you for the update : ) . Do you find that from like a 45 degree angle thugs get distorted ?


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## gotmilk516

With light conditions seems to work well , how do you feel about it in dark conditions ?


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## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quamosa*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24620516
> 
> 
> Thanks for the pics. The screen looks great. Typically you get what you pay for but I think this is one situation where you get a little more than what you paid for. Its definitely viewable based on your pics and I would imagine even more so in person as well as with a projector with more lumens. My projector will be mounted in a soffit 18 feet from the screen and my screen will be about 12.5 inches down from the ceiling. I wonder if this distance and height will help with the hotspotting. How far is your projector from the screen and is it ceiling mounted?



It's ceiling mounted 12 feet from the screen. I think with more distance you'll reduce the hotspotting.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24620615
> 
> 
> Looks good thank you for the update : ) . Do you find that from like a 45 degree angle thugs get distorted ?



If you mean side to side angles, it dims slightly but is perfectly watchable at least to 45 degrees. That was one of the things I was worried about, but proved not to be an issue.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24620763
> 
> 
> With light conditions seems to work well , how do you feel about it in dark conditions ?



That last pic is actually with two lamps on, so needless to say I'm very pleased with it in a darker room. I won't go as far as saying it looks just like my brother's 65" Panny plasma, but it's not as far off as you may think.


I think that once I have to replace the PJ's lamp, it will improve further. One thing I don't like about it is the back of the screen is not black. Therefore, I get light bleed through from the window behind the screen until the sun goes down. Time for some blinds or something.


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## gotmilk516

I thought they blacked it the back of all there screens , does not this one , I think it can be self Magivered with black felt on the back of the screen or something . You got me sold I'm going to pick up a 110" 5D from B&H : )


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## ben38

Finally have some time to write. I second ruggercb. This Screen is not the holy grail, but it is a big improvement over a white screen in a room with ambient light.


This screen is a replacement for my very good Vapex screen. The Vapex's white screen gave a very bright, even picture, but simply couldn't fight ambient light.

In the morning, my living room catches a blinding amount of sun. Even with blackout shades and thick drapes, the room would block out the sun, but the room would never get completely dark. The baking sun would would bear down on the shades and drapes creating a sort of soft glow that gave the room a slight amount of warm light. So, during the morning hours, i would get a decent picture, but not a great picture. My white ceiling didn't help matters either. After getting the green light from my wife to get a different screen, i ordered the Cinegrey 5D.


After the UPS man delivered the new screen, I immediately ripped open the box to start assembling the new screen.


The first thing that struck me was that even though this screen cost 320 dollars more than my Vapex screen, the frame was not nearly as thick and strong. Don't get me wrong. The EZ Frame is good quality, but the Vapex frame is so strong It doesn't need a center support bar like the EZ Frame does.  
 




Assembly of the frame was quick and easy. Attaching the material was the exact same rod and tab system as the Vapex, but was a little looser and easier to complete. (The Vapex was so tight it left me with blistered fingers.) Total assembly time was 50 minutes by myself.


Since I already had brackets on my wall, i simply loosened the screws and switched out the Vapex brackets for the EZ Frame ones. (Could not put the frame on using the Vapex brackets, so i was forced to switch.) 10 minutes later, I had the new screen on the wall. Putting the screen on the wall alone is doable, but much easier with two people.  


As you can see, the screen is a very dark, silvery gray. Here's how the screen looks like in the morning with the shades and drapes down. The screen is close to being black.(Looks like a giant Plasma TV.)  


With the drapes open, I can get a less than ideal, but still watchable picture. Under this circumstance, the Vapex white screen was completely unwatchable.  


With the drapes closed, and the shades all the way down, the picture really comes to life.  


With lights coming from the kitchen, the picture is still very punchy, with great contrast.  


I couldn't photograph it, but the screen has a definite sweet spot where you'll get the brightest image. I wouldn't call it a pronounced hotspot as I've seen on other high gain screens. It's just that the screen is brighter if you're seated at the middle of the screen. I brought my penthouse neighbor over to see the screen, (He has a Da-lite high gain, high power screen) and he came to the conclusion that the screen was too high up on the wall and my sofa was too close. After moving the screen 8 inches lower and 2 inches to the left, we moved the sofa back about a foot so it's now 13 feet away. the improvement was huge and I learned that these light reflecting screens need to be placed just so in relation to the projector and the viewers seating position.

After spending the next hour recalibrating the projector using the Disney WoW disc, we sat down to watch the new "FROZEN" bluray. We were Ooooing and Ahhhing all the way through. Terriffic brightness. Great contrast. Great Color. Great Detail. And no apparent screen pattern or sparkles..


To sum up: I love this screen. It's not perfect. I'm sure it's not as good as the Screen Innovations or DNP screens. But at a quarter of the price, this screen is a dynamite value. Highly recommended.


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## ben38

Forgot to mention. The back of the screen is not black. Its the same grey as the front. There's a small label at one of the corners named "Back"


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24621112
> 
> 
> Forgot to mention. The back of the screen is not black. Its the same grey as the front. There's a small label at one of the corners named "Back"



These are some really good pics of the screen. I cant wait to get mine. I'm checking order status daily in hopes they will ship it before the scheduled date like the last few items I ordered.

At some point I would like to mount the screen to a hinge so that I can prop it up from the floor. A 2x4 will be attached to the bottom frame and will stand on the floor to help me get easier access to the wall behind the screen.


You mentioned the frame being weaker. Does the frame still have some flex with the supports in? I am wondering because I went with the thinner Sable frame which would likely be weaker. I want to be sure that if I prop up the screen from the bottom frame that it wont bow.


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## ben38

It's weaker in relation to the thick Vapex frame. But it's still plenty strong once the support bar is in. Little or no flex. One of the pics shows the EZ frame next to the Vapex frame. As for the Sable frame, the only difference from the EZ frame is the Sable frame is rounded. The build quality is exactly the same. I'm not sure, but there might be a difference in how the velvet is applied. I would have gotten the Sable frame myself if it was available when I ordered.


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## gotmilk516

Quamosa , were are you ordering from with the sable frame ? Cheapest I found was B&H 110" like $550 reg frame ... Any input ?


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24621338
> 
> 
> Quamosa , were are you ordering from with the sable frame ? Cheapest I found was B&H 110" like $550 reg frame ... Any input ?



I went to Amazon. I got my 120" sable frame there for a few $$ less than what you found at BH if I chose "Amazon.com LLC" as the merchant


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## gotmilk516

Hey guys so after couple says of use how do you guys feel about the performance. I received a sample of Cinegrey and cinawhite , like the Cinegrey but but concerned about the sparkling , but may be it's just cause it's a small little sample piece ... Any feedback ?


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## ben38

I have no problems whatsoever with sparkling.


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## incarnate

I have a 5030UB setup in a basement that is normally completely dark.


I was looking at this screen as I would like to accomplish 2 things. First I would like to increase the contrast in dark movie scenes / deepen the black level. Secondly I would like to decrease the washout when I do turn the lights on.


Anyone think I can't accomplish both of these things with this screen? I have a 1.0 gain white matte screen now, but got to see my projector in action on a 1.8 gain grey screen and loved it. I was debating on trying this or 1.0 gain grey screen.


--Matt


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## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24628854
> 
> 
> Hey guys so after couple says of use how do you guys feel about the performance. I received a sample of Cinegrey and cinawhite , like the Cinegrey but but concerned about the sparkling , but may be it's just cause it's a small little sample piece ... Any feedback ?




This screen has less sparkle than the Elite Matte White screen that I replaced with my Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White. This screen also has less visible texture than the Da-Lite. In other words, I notice the screen less and the image more.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *incarnate*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24635344
> 
> 
> I have a 5030UB setup in a basement that is normally completely dark.
> 
> 
> I was looking at this screen as I would like to accomplish 2 things. First I would like to increase the contrast in dark movie scenes / deepen the black level. Secondly I would like to decrease the washout when I do turn the lights on.
> 
> 
> Anyone think I can't accomplish both of these things with this screen? I have a 1.0 gain white matte screen now, but got to see my projector in action on a 1.8 gain grey screen and loved it. I was debating on trying this or 1.0 gain grey screen.
> 
> 
> --Matt



I do think it's possible. It's a pretty great screen for the money. The improved black levels and less washing out kind of go hand in hand on this screen.


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## gotmilk516

Just ordered the 110" cinegrey.


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## ben38

The more I use this Cinegrey5D screen, the more I'm impressed by it. Money well spent.


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24637327
> 
> 
> The more I use this Cinegrey5D screen, the more I'm impressed by it. Money well spent.



I'm so psyched. Still waiting for it to ship... I might as well have waited the 6 months for the Cinemascope version.


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## gotmilk516

I ordered mine from Amazon , I hope I don't have the same issue your having .


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24639506
> 
> 
> I ordered mine from Amazon , I hope I don't have the same issue your having .



I'm in the middle of painting so its probably best.

What time estimate did they give you?


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## gotmilk516

Amazon said delivery April 30 to May 5.... It was 75$ cheaper then B&H


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## gotmilk516

Well I just wasted three days trying to order with Amazon. Just got an email they are out of stock and canceling the order. Repurchased it with B and H hope this works out better


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## incarnate

I got my screen in last night and put it together and hung it by myself. I purchased the 110" Sable Frame version.


First impressions are good. I liked the contrast and black level which really increased my PQ in regular TV viewing. Movies look a lot better as well and watching the first 5 minutes of Thor (the first one) brought several grins to my face. I have had my projector for 9 days and this is my 3rd screen.


I do have some minor issues. At this point after trying 2 other really cheap screens, I feel that I can live with the issues. I do see some sparkles on bright screens and occasionally it gives a screen door type effect on really bright screens. I would have to measure my seating position, but my theater has basically been flipped upside down and I am seated closer than normal. I am going to try moving back further and see if this effect is less pronounced as well.


My second issue is that on bright screens, I have some vertical dark spots. They almost look like stretch marks. I have no idea what is causing this, but it could just be dirty or it might just go away. I literally watched 2-3 hours of random stuff, including the end of the OKC game last night. I was very tired and had heavy eyes so I couldn't do any critical viewing. With that said, I was left more impressed than disappointed. I also figured I would see some level of sparkles, but I am okay with that.


The frame was very straightforward and easy to put together. The tab tensions started off really easy and before you know it, became a mini work out. It was easy and straight forward though. The material is really neat. It reminds me of the material in a air mattress or a pool float toy. It is thick and heavy and feels really good. I also feel like I could probably scrub it with a wet towel and not harm it, but I do not know if that is correct!


I have a completely darkened room and the better black levels and contrast are awesome. I also feel like I can turn the lights on a bit and have a very acceptable image. This to me is a lot better when thinking about watching sports with friends over. We don't have to sit in the dark in order to see a good picture.


I will be running it through the paces this weekend and will follow up after I get more viewing time in.


--Matt


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## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24646873
> 
> 
> Well I just wasted three days trying to order with Amazon. Just got an email they are out of stock and canceling the order. Repurchased it with B and H hope this works out better



Crap! I havent received this email yet but its funny I was discussing with my wife about it last night. I was telling her I hope there wasn't some backorder issue. I had checked a few sites before I went with Amazon and a few said the item was on back order. Hmm... I might want to check with B&H as well...


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## quamosa

Amazon tech support said it was scheduled to go out today and that I would receive an email and I just noticed the delivery date has been shifted forward 10 days! Hmmm.... not sure if I trust the response but we shall see.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *incarnate*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24647156
> 
> 
> I got my screen in last night and put it together and hung it by myself. I purchased the 110" Sable Frame version.
> 
> 
> I will be running it through the paces this weekend and will follow up after I get more viewing time in.
> 
> 
> --Matt



Sounds pretty good. Keep us posted. For your follow up, I'll be particularly interested in your seating distance/angle, projector mounting location/angle, etc.


----------



## incarnate




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quamosa*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24648017
> 
> 
> Sounds pretty good. Keep us posted. For your follow up, I'll be particularly interested in your seating distance/angle, projector mounting location/angle, etc.



What is the best way to determine my projector angle and seating angle? Just from eyeballing it, I think I'm very close on projector angle to the screen creating the proper reverse angle to my eye level.


For a prelim, I think my seats are moved close and are between 10 and 11 feet. They used to be around 12 1/2 - 13 1/2 feet for a 60" Plasma. This is front of screen to my head in a reclining chair so the 1 foot spread is sitting up vs reclined.


My projector is a Epson 5030UB and it is mounted slightly off center from the screen due to a vent and lights and adjusted with lens shift and no keystone. It is approximately 17 feet from the screen.


The kicker is how short my basement is. I believe I'm around 80 - 82" floor to ceiling! The top of the projector is maybe 3" off the ceiling and ever so slightly tilted forward. Nothing in my basement is level (floors, walls, ceiling) so everything is crooked to me!


I will try to take some cell phone pictures and post. My basement looks like hell right now and I need to paint over some spots after removing the TV and switching around some wiring. Luckily, the 110" screen covers most of my wall and leaves just enough room for speakers.


--Matt


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *incarnate*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24648074
> 
> 
> What is the best way to determine my projector angle and seating angle? Just from eyeballing it, I think I'm very close on projector angle to the screen creating the proper reverse angle to my eye level.
> 
> 
> For a prelim, I think my seats are moved close and are between 10 and 11 feet. They used to be around 12 1/2 - 13 1/2 feet for a 60" Plasma. This is front of screen to my head in a reclining chair so the 1 foot spread is sitting up vs reclined.
> 
> 
> My projector is a Epson 5030UB and it is mounted slightly off center from the screen due to a vent and lights and adjusted with lens shift and no keystone. It is approximately 17 feet from the screen.
> 
> 
> The kicker is how short my basement is. I believe I'm around 80 - 82" floor to ceiling! The top of the projector is maybe 3" off the ceiling and ever so slightly tilted forward. Nothing in my basement is level (floors, walls, ceiling) so everything is crooked to me!
> 
> 
> I will try to take some cell phone pictures and post. My basement looks like hell right now and I need to paint over some spots after removing the TV and switching around some wiring. Luckily, the 110" screen covers most of my wall and leaves just enough room for speakers.
> 
> 
> --Matt


Since you posted this, incarnate, I've been discussing this problem with my penthouse buddy who has more than than 12 years of experience with projector setups. We've both come to the conclusion that, given your set of circumstances, there really isn't a whole lot different you can do. Your projector throw of 17 feet is great because it broadens the viewing cone and minimizes the hotspot. Moving the projector more to the center would improve matters, (As you well know, these reflective screens work best with the projector centered on the screen.) but as you described, that's not an option.(Maybe it's possible to remove the 1 inch forward tilt?) Screen height and position, as you described, is where it is, no option to move around much. The only real option here is to experiment with your seating position and height. (Which I'm sure you've probably done already)


----------



## Majister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24653331
> 
> 
> Since you posted this, incarnate, I've been discussing this problem with my penthouse buddy who has more than than 12 years of experience with projector setups. We've both come to the conclusion that, given your set of circumstances, there really isn't a whole lot different you can do. Your projector throw of 17 feet is great because it broadens the viewing cone and minimizes the hotspot. Moving the projector more to the center would improve matters, (As you well know, these reflective screens work best with the projector centered on the screen.) but as you described, that's not an option.(Maybe it's possible to remove the 1 inch forward tilt?) Screen height and position, as you described, is where it is, no option to move around much. The only real option here is to experiment with your seating position and height. (Which I'm sure you've probably done already)



Nice feed back, also thanks to everyone who has posted info, pics and mini reviews.


Re the above comments, I just wanted to comment on one thing. In regarda to narrowing or broadening the cone. The further back the projecgor is, the narrower the cone. The closer it is the wider the cone. So when further back and zoomed in to compensate for the enlargment effect of moving the projector back, you end up getting into zoom...thats one of the greatest losses of light in a projection system.


The oerson you directed your comment at might want to look at getting a tall ladder, and just move the projector closer by increments and see if that helps. Now once he's closer, less zoom is used and you gain brightness and the cone is wider, the less oblique angle of the projector light vs the screen, might move his sweet spot into a more favourable position. Granted with increased brightness, maybe hotspotting could be more of an issue, but broadlh soeaking, I think this could increase his sweet spot. Might allow the couch to be moved forward a bit which helps get those rear surrounds more behind you.


Sorry for the long post. I'm actually assuming you just mixed it up in the typing, but its worth mentioning incase it causes confusion. But essentially, he has quite a bit of play room if he's willing to consider a more forward projector placement.


Hope this helps!


Cheers


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Majister*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24656297
> 
> 
> Nice feed back, also thanks to everyone who has posted info, pics and mini reviews.
> 
> 
> Re the above comments, I just wanted to comment on one thing. In regarda to narrowing or broadening the cone. The further back the projecgor is, the narrower the cone. The closer it is the wider the cone. So when further back and zoomed in to compensate for the enlargment effect of moving the projector back, you end up getting into zoom...thats one of the greatest losses of light in a projection system.
> 
> 
> The oerson you directed your comment at might want to look at getting a tall ladder, and just move the projector closer by increments and see if that helps. Now once he's closer, less zoom is used and you gain brightness and the cone is wider, the less oblique angle of the projector light vs the screen, might move his sweet spot into a more favourable position. Granted with increased brightness, maybe hotspotting could be more of an issue, but broadlh soeaking, I think this could increase his sweet spot. Might allow the couch to be moved forward a bit which helps get those rear surrounds more behind you.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long post. I'm actually assuming you just mixed it up in the typing, but its worth mentioning incase it causes confusion. But essentially, he has quite a bit of play room if he's willing to consider a more forward projector placement.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> Cheers


Absolutely right, Majister. My mistake. My buddy pointed out my error, but i'd already posted by then.

As for moving the projector, we didn't consider it because incarnate stated that he had obstructions to deal with. But your suggestions are right on, Majister. If it's possible for incarnate to post a few pictures, I'm sure we can all come up with more accurate suggestions.


----------



## Majister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24656359
> 
> 
> Absolutely right, Majister. My mistake. My buddy pointed out my error, but i'd already posted by then.
> 
> As for moving the projector, we didn't consider it because incarnate stated that he had obstructions to deal with. But your suggestions are right on, Majister. If it's possible for incarnate to post a few pictures, I'm sure we can all come up with more accurate suggestions.



I agree, some pics would be awesome! Nice thing about moving it forward is that if you are a gamer, or have little'uns or grandkids, you can more fully use the space in front of the screen for interactive or kinect type games without obstructing the picture. Im currently repositioning to take advantage of just that. My kids have clearance, but I want to play that kinect Dancing game with my little people....and since im 6.4" I have to get a little creative to use that space myself.


BTW this is the best CineGrey5D thread ive seen. So good to see some awesome people and great posts happen in the same thread....doesnt always go like that


----------



## incarnate

Unfortunately I didn't have much time to play this weekend. I will try to make up for it this week!


I ran through scenes of various movies watching between 5 and 15 minute stretches. The contrast and black levels of this screen are awesome and it is the main reason why I went with this screen. I will also add that I do get a very watchable picture when turning on some lighting. I am very pleased with that as well.


Remaining issue: I have equally spaced darker lines that run up and down across the whole screen. I have no idea what these marks are from and they look like stretch marks. I notice it more and more, but it doesn't show up very often during viewing for some movies and all the time for others. I can see them with the projector off, but I have to look at an angle or sometimes even use a flashlight to make it pronounced enough to see. I will see if I can get a cell phone picture to show this, but I have my doubts. These lines are visible on bright scenes and invisible on dark scenes while watching content. I don't see all of them while seated. I just see the ones towards the center of the screen. If I get up and move around I can see that these lines exist all over it, but you don't see them all from just one angle. I tried a wet towel and scrubbed as best as I could in a circular motion and couldn't get the lines to come out. I can't tell if it is something that stained the screen, an issue with the material or if it just the way it is supposed to be.


I'm not sure how I feel about the lines just yet. If I could send just the screen material back and exchange it for one that didn't have them, I would in a heartbeat. But if my only option is to return and re-order and roll the dice, I don't know that I want to go through that hassle. I found a couple of Amazon reviews commenting on the lines, which suggests it could be a wider spread issue. In my head, I am going back and forth between "It's not that bad" and "maybe I should return it". I think the back and forth depends on what I am watching though.


I will try to report back tonight or tomorrow. I am hoping to get back on track after this weekend went bust!


--Matt


----------



## quamosa

I wasn't able to find any reviews specific to the 5d on amazon. I would like to read more about these lines. The draper and the DA lite contrast screens were also off and on reported to have visible lines in the material as well.


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *incarnate*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/30#post_24658658
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I didn't have much time to play this weekend. I will try to make up for it this week!
> 
> 
> I ran through scenes of various movies watching between 5 and 15 minute stretches. The contrast and black levels of this screen are awesome and it is the main reason why I went with this screen. I will also add that I do get a very watchable picture when turning on some lighting. I am very pleased with that as well.
> 
> 
> Remaining issue: I have equally spaced darker lines that run up and down across the whole screen. I have no idea what these marks are from and they look like stretch marks. I notice it more and more, but it doesn't show up very often during viewing for some movies and all the time for others. I can see them with the projector off, but I have to look at an angle or sometimes even use a flashlight to make it pronounced enough to see. I will see if I can get a cell phone picture to show this, but I have my doubts. These lines are visible on bright scenes and invisible on dark scenes while watching content. I don't see all of them while seated. I just see the ones towards the center of the screen. If I get up and move around I can see that these lines exist all over it, but you don't see them all from just one angle. I tried a wet towel and scrubbed as best as I could in a circular motion and couldn't get the lines to come out. I can't tell if it is something that stained the screen, an issue with the material or if it just the way it is supposed to be.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how I feel about the lines just yet. If I could send just the screen material back and exchange it for one that didn't have them, I would in a heartbeat. But if my only option is to return and re-order and roll the dice, I don't know that I want to go through that hassle. I found a couple of Amazon reviews commenting on the lines, which suggests it could be a wider spread issue. In my head, I am going back and forth between "It's not that bad" and "maybe I should return it". I think the back and forth depends on what I am watching though.
> 
> 
> I will try to report back tonight or tomorrow. I am hoping to get back on track after this weekend went bust!
> 
> 
> --Matt


Sorry to hear about your problem. I'm trying hard to find on my screen what you've reported on your screen, Incarnate. I don't see any dark lines. Maybe It's a rare occurrence and you were just unlucky, or maybe It's a real Quality Control issue and I've just been lucky. (Knock on Wood) In any Case, this is a valid reason to call Elite and make use of the 2 year warranty. You shouldn't go back and forth in your mind about a return. If it's something that bothers you, then It will always bother you. Call Elite to complain.


----------



## ruggercb

Unfortunately, this screen has exacerbated the limitations of my Optoma HD20, specifically the lack of brightness uniformity and focus. I had always attributed that to my wavy manual pull down screen, but no, it's the projector. I've just ordered a BenQ W1070. I've also ordered a honeycomb blackout blind to compensate for the lack of black backing on the screen. After I get it all set up, I'll take some pics of the results.


I do have it mounted to the ceiling using a hinge setup, which is actually pretty sweet.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruggercb*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24662905
> 
> 
> I do have it mounted to the ceiling using a hinge setup, which is actually pretty sweet.



I would like to see how you hinged it up to the ceiling.


On another note, I received my screen today, couple bux cheaper and 15 days shorter delivery.







I'll have to find some time tonight hopefully to open up the box and get it hooked up.


----------



## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quamosa*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24662975
> 
> 
> I would like to see how you hinged it up to the ceiling.
> 
> 
> On another note, I received my screen today, couple bux cheaper and 15 days shorter delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have to find some time tonight hopefully to open up the box and get it hooked up.



I should clarify: It's mounted on the wall pretty high up, then swings up and hooks on the ceiling when not in use. I'll get it all set up and get some pics taken maybe this weekend.


----------



## quamosa

I've got the screen set up. Considering that I dont have any other screen to compare it with... it looks very good with some lights on.







I did have to make sure no lights were on within 5 feet or so though. I have a bunch of lights on in the rear of the room and they dont seem to affect the screen at all which is a VERY big plus for entertaining. My projector is almost exactly 18 feet from the screen and I didnt notice any obvious hot spotting. I also moved from left to right and front to rear and I couldnt detect any change in brightness or colors either. There may have been a VERY slight increase in brightness in the 2nd row but I'll need to spend some time with it to be sure. I didn't see any of the "sparklies" that were mentioned about this screen. Maybe I'm not sure what to look for...


So those are all the positives. The only negative I have of this screen is the slight vertical lines and one horizontal wrinkle which goes across the whole screen. The manual says the horizontal lines are to be expected and will work themselves out over the span of 4 days. I'm guessing the vertical lines are to be gotten used to.









They dont bother me, as when I start watching getting into the show they sort of fade away and I have to really focus in on them on purpose to see them.


I hooked up my chromecast and watched a few things.. my cellphone pics dont do the screen justice at all. The camera makes the room look MUCH darker than it really is.


----------



## incarnate

Well my cellphone did a horrible job of capturing the lines. It is really hard to see in the pictures, but very easy to see in person. I took pictures with and without flash as obviously the reflection of light from the screen makes it very hard to get adequate light for the camera to resolve the lines. For the most part, the camera pictures look bad, but the vertical dark spots are what I am referring to. Basically the screen doesn't look very uniform in the pictures and it isn't just the camera it is the screen!


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *incarnate*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24665335
> 
> 
> Well my cellphone did a horrible job of capturing the lines. It is really hard to see in the pictures, but very easy to see in person. I took pictures with and without flash as obviously the reflection of light from the screen makes it very hard to get adequate light for the camera to resolve the lines. For the most part, the camera pictures look bad, but the vertical dark spots are what I am referring to. Basically the screen doesn't look very uniform in the pictures and it isn't just the camera it is the screen!



I think I can make out the lines in your last pic. Those are what I saw on my screen as well. For me they were easier to see on white or very bright scenes. I wonder if it goes away over time. How many days has your screen been mounted? They do seem to be like stretch marks. Can you point me any reviews of this screen which tell of this issue?


----------



## soupcxan

Will the cinegrey 5d work well with a short throw pj like the w1080st?


----------



## gotmilk516

We're is my screeeeeeen !! I'm so jealous of you guys ! I can't wait just hope it delivers a better picture then a tan wall lol ; )


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soupcxan*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24668002
> 
> 
> Will the cinegrey 5d work well with a short throw pj like the w1080st?


As long as the projector is lined up properly, The w1080st should work fine.

About a year ago, one of my colleagues at work showed me his new 120 inch DNP Supernova core 1 (23-23 material) screen that he was using with a benq1070 in fairly well lit living room. The resulting picture from this combo left me really impressed. Since the cinegrey 5d seems to perform in a similar manner, the result with a 1080st should be about the same.


----------



## ben38

Here's a short video of the screen performing with bright kitchen lights on. (4 led bulbs outputting 800 lumens each)


----------



## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *quamosa*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24665488
> 
> 
> I think I can make out the lines in your last pic. Those are what I saw on my screen as well. For me they were easier to see on white or very bright scenes. I wonder if it goes away over time. How many days has your screen been mounted? They do seem to be like stretch marks. Can you point me any reviews of this screen which tell of this issue?



I know what you're talking about with the lines, but the only time I can see them is with the PJ turned off, and with daylight outside- remember I'm in front of a blind-less window. Well, till tomorrow. Blackout honeycomb blind will be here tomorrow.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24668489
> 
> 
> As long as the projector is lined up properly, The w1080st should work fine.
> 
> About a year ago, one of my colleagues at work showed me his new 120 inch DNP Supernova core 1 (23-23 material) screen that he was using with a benq1070 in fairly well lit living room. The resulting picture from this combo left me really impressed. Since the cinegrey 5d seems to perform in a similar manner, the result with a 1080st should be about the same.



I just hooked up my Benq W1070 for a few minutes today. Full daylight, lamps on, windows open and the picture was very good.


I'm super frustrated I won't get this set up for a few days though. I figured "I'm a handy guy, I'll build my new PJ mount using a few parts from my old mount that I don't care for, then I'll be set!" I built one up and it turned out better than expected. But as it turns out the Benq has different size mounting screws than my Optoma does, and I live 75 miles from town. Soooo Amazon to the rescue again. This will also coincide with the 3d glasses I ordered. Looking forward to trying out Nvidia's 3DTV play functionality.


----------



## ben38

Here's two more short videos of the Cinegrey 5D with lots of ambient light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C206guUbXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYJWUL7ZPZU


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24672678
> 
> 
> Here's two more short videos of the Cinegrey 5D with lots of ambient light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C206guUbXE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYJWUL7ZPZU



These videos are pretty good. Thanks for putting them up. I watched a few more things last night and I loved the screen even more. Here are a few pics with a 60W bulb on within 5 feet of the screen at full brightness (worst case scenario) and half brightness. Also ambient light coming in from the brighter half of the basement as well as the rear of the room. Other than full brightness there seems to be very minimal effect on contrast if any at all.


----------



## quamosa

 @ruggercb I wonder why your lines only show when the projector is off?

@incarnate Did you contact Elite or find any other resolution? I'm waiting to see if they fade over time. I'm okay with them as is as they don't bother me too much but eventually I may give Elite a call if I find some time just to get more information on the matter


----------



## curtishd

Does anyone know if this screen retains passive 3D? Anyone want to try with two pairs of the passive 3d glass?


----------



## quamosa

I believe it supports both active and passive. I have an active projector but I have yet to test even that due to the fact my theater is about 50% finished so im using chromecast only for video.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curtishd*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24675924
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this screen retains passive 3D? Anyone want to try with two pairs of the passive 3d glass?


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curtishd*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24675924
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if this screen retains passive 3D? Anyone want to try with two pairs of the passive 3d glass?


Yes. This screen was specifically designed to retain images for passive 3d.


----------



## ben38

Not to worry, Quamosa. Just about any screen will work fine with an active 3d projector.(I even saw active 3d work ok on a bare wall)

Passive 3d is a different ball of wax. It requires a screen that can keep the dual images being projected separate so each eye can see each image separately when you put on the polarized glasses. These screens require a material with lots of metal in it. (Usually silver) The Cinegrey 5d is a screen with a Gray/Silver surface, so it will keep the dual images separate. With an active 3d projector, the Cinegrey 5d will behave like any normal screen.

However,the type of polarized glasses you'll use in a passive 3d setup is dependent on the type of projectors you're using. (You need two projectors for a home system) If you're using DLP projectors, you can use the same glasses you get in the movie theater.(Since the passive 3d systems in theaters use DLP projectors)If you use LCD projectors, you need different polarized glasses.(because LCD polarization is the opposite of DLP)

Sorry for the real longwinded explanation. I had some time on my hands.


----------



## Jim_0068

This has me excited for the blade copy called the cinegrey "edge free" hopefully it gets released soon


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24668366
> 
> 
> We're is my screeeeeeen !! I'm so jealous of you guys ! I can't wait just hope it delivers a better picture then a tan wall lol ; )



Have you gotten it yet? If not I can point you to the retailer I finally went with. I had free delivery and it showed up in less than 24 hours from processing. I'm curious to see if you have the vertical lines on yours. I also have 3 sets of horizontal "wrinkles" that haven't smoothed out just yet.


----------



## gotmilk516

I am thinking I should get mine Monday. It was shipped Tuesday from California to NY, LI. I will definitely post feedback.


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim_0068*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24680044
> 
> 
> This has me excited for the blade copy called the cinegrey "edge free" hopefully it gets released soon


 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tBKUdhzkdXs Jim, Maybe you already saw this video of Elite showing off their edge free design. There's no edge free designs in their 2014 catalog, so it may be a 2015 product. If the price is right, I may go for one myself.


----------



## audioalexander

I've owned and have experience with just about every type of screen ever put to market, and I presently own a SI Black Diamond 0.8 gain gen 3 screen. I just got the Cinegrey 5D sample the other day (small 6" x8" only), and did some comparisons vs my screen, other SI BD and standard white and HC gray samples.

First, I think the Cinegrey 5D shows promise, and does some things well. It's close enough to the neutrality of a good white screen - if a little on the green side, color temp wise - but it's a bit darker overall than a good white screen, and highlights aren't quite as bright, even more subdued/grey. In this regard, it's probably like most gray screens, which need a boost in contrast controls to make the image pop. It's probably bellow a Stewart firehawk in this regard, too. Black levels are really good better than Firehawk and 1.4 gain Black Diamond - by a smidge), and just short of the black level champ, the 0.8 gain SI BD screen. Color and overall image seems to have some sparkle and life from the gain of the screen, and color saturation should be fine. Although, ultimately, the SI Black Diamond 0.8 and 1.4 gain screen materials are clearly superior in the contrast department, and white level is clearly more punchy and bright on the Black Diamond! - overall, the dynamic range on the BD's are unmatched, in fact!

On any given average projected image, I think you'll find the SI Black Diamonds offer a wider dynamic range between black and white, than just about anything you'll find - but they're expensive!! Another mark against, if any on the more expensive BD screens, is that there's somewhat of a "shimmer" to the image, (which is better than old BD material Versions 1 and 2, however), which is visible in bright/light/white images. Not a deal breaker or unworkable, IMO, but it's there on the BD - possibly less of a nuisance on a very large screen,and way less noticeable in a room with lights on, I suppose.. The Cinegray 5D showed much less of this artifact, from neutral.

I think the Cingrey 5D, for an more affordable Light rejection screen, probably will prove to be a good choice, and work very well, is my thought. In fact, I'm likely going to try one out. I can use a couple screens in the house.

So far, however, I think this screen should offer all the benefits that a good light rejection screen should offer, with workable downsides, on a budget. Can compare more later should I acquire one.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24681649
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tBKUdhzkdXs Jim, Maybe you already saw this video of Elite showing off their edge free design. There's no edge free designs in their 2014 catalog, so it may be a 2015 product. If the price is right, I may go for one myself.



Thanks for posting this link. I noticed right away the PolarStar looks ALOT like the CineGrey5D material though it has slightly higher gain at 1.8

I would love to get my hands on a DarkStar with that frame, even a 5D. It would be nice if the "consumer level" of the edge free frame would allow us to retrofit our existing 5D material to it. I'm sort of glad it will be a 2015 product since I already made my purchase and happy with it.


----------



## Jim_0068




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24681649
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tBKUdhzkdXs Jim, Maybe you already saw this video of Elite showing off their edge free design. There's no edge free designs in their 2014 catalog, so it may be a 2015 product. If the price is right, I may go for one myself.



Thanks for the link. I found a trademark filing for "edge free" recently by elite screens so I figured a year or so for possible release.


----------



## ben38

Another Satisfied Cinegrey 5D customer. My 8 year old son.


----------



## gotmilk516









[/URL] 


I finally put up the screen cinegray 5d 110" ! Let me tell you this Sh** is the Sh** !!!! Picture quality Sick I could watch it with the lights on , off half on blinds open , I think a supernova could explode in the room and my picture would still be awesome. Viewing angle not an issue , no blurriness from any angle in my room. Sometimes I just walk into the room and just look at it and stare , cause it looks awesome with no picture on it ..... I'm done talking about it , I'm at work and just feel like going home and playing Xbox One....


* forgot to take pic with projector on, I'll post later with picture image .


Next project taking stacked stone and building it all around the screen on that wall : )


----------



## gotmilk516

  


For some reason only one pic attached to last post ....


----------



## ben38

You finally got it! Congrats. I'm happy you're happy. My work buddy came to my place, (He has a DNP supernova core1) and It blew his mind that I was getting similar performance at a third of the price. Elite has really hit a home run with this screen.


----------



## BillY2KFRC

Can this screen material be had in an electric drop down? I wasn't able to find that option on their website. Seems like a great value and I love to hear that you don't get any sparkles with this screen.


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillY2KFRC*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24704399
> 
> 
> Can this screen material be had in an electric drop down? I wasn't able to find that option on their website. Seems like a great value and I love to hear that you don't get any sparkles with this screen.


Unfortunately No. Don't Know why not.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/60#post_24701312
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL]
> 
> 
> I finally put up the screen cinegray 5d 110" ! Let me tell you this Sh** is the Sh** !!!! Picture quality Sick I could watch it with the lights on , off half on blinds open , I think a supernova could explode in the room and my picture would still be awesome. Viewing angle not an issue , no blurriness from any angle in my room. Sometimes I just walk into the room and just look at it and stare , cause it looks awesome with no picture on it ..... I'm done talking about it , I'm at work and just feel like going home and playing Xbox One....
> 
> 
> * forgot to take pic with projector on, I'll post later with picture image .
> 
> 
> Next project taking stacked stone and building it all around the screen on that wall : )



Congrats. Welcome to the club finally. lol Seems like we're all happy customers! Did you happen to notice the vertical "stretch mark" lines and horizontal "wrinkles" that I and a few others have?


----------



## gotmilk516

  
 


Love the screen , performs well in any conditions , but I just put on a netflix movie "Mudd" and I see these lines : / WTF. ..... Looks like I'm going to ***** tomorrow lol


----------



## gotmilk516

  


Here's the a pic that captured the lines , have you guys had any luck with these lines know some have seen them aswell?


----------



## gotmilk516

A few emails back and forth and a Pic and Elite sending me new material . I was expecting to have to battle with them but NO , there like we see the issue and fill out this warranty claim for and will send you new material : )


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24710970
> 
> 
> A few emails back and forth and a Pic and Elite sending me new material . I was expecting to have to battle with them but NO , there like we see the issue and fill out this warranty claim for and will send you new material : )



Excellent! I'll probably be doing the same... which email did you use?


----------



## gotmilk516

[email protected]


----------



## gotmilk516

Send in an explanation and attach a pic , they got back to me within 30 min


----------



## ben38

Well, after a whole month of looking, I've finally caught a glimpse of a vertical line near the bottom of the screen. It's only about 6 inches long, but it's definitely there. Since, in my case, it's only viewable during very bright scenes and I'm consciously looking for it, I don't consider it something worth complaining about.

Also, Just to keep this thread alive a little longer, I've included a video of the Cinegrey 5D with an extreme amount of ambient light.


----------



## Duckfan2012

This cinegrey 5d screen is what I need for my ambient light room. Are the lines everyone seeing on the screen a problem? I'm going to order a 150" for my Epson 5010. But I'm very concerned about the lines and wrinkle issues. Can anyone compare to VA and monoprice sreen?


----------



## ben38

So Far, everyone who's gotten one has had high praise for it. (Including me) Every screen ever made has had an issue or 2. What matters is how the company reacts to such issues. So far, it seems that Elite is being very good about dealing with complaints.

As far as comparisons go: Never had or saw a monoprice screen, so no comment there. I previously owned a Visual Apex matte white screen. It was excellent with a very strong frame. (Thicker and stronger than the Elite frame)


----------



## obonillaf

.


----------



## obonillaf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruggercb*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet#post_24620453
> 
> 
> My quick initial impressions are this: you can't defeat physics and this screen isn't the holy grail, but this material is very good. My wife, who is not an A/V nut like myself, noticed an immediate difference. You can definitely watch this thing comfortably in a fully lit room.
> 
> 
> It does suffer from hotspotting, but the further you sit from the screen, the less pronounced it is. I don't see the material texture or sparklies when I watch something as opposed to my last two screens. Also, the angle of projection is super important. My Optoma HD20 has a very shallow projection angle and I found that when I moved the screen up another 18 inches up the wall, the image was significantly brighter and more uniform(plus no more keystone!).
> 
> 
> These are taken without moving the screen higher where the quality is better.




Hello everybody. I just installed my Cinegrey 5D screen yesterday. I am using it with an Epson 5030 projector. Before said screen I was using the projector against my white wall and I placed the projector in a coffee table situated at the far LEFT from the screen, NOT CENTERED. I "center" the image via lens shiftting. Because of terrible reflections I chose the Cinegrey 5D to help fix them and I got great results at that. The only terrible problem I am having is a very pronounced HOTSPOT that while being seated at the center of the screen, makes all images from the center to the left noticeable brighter than the images from the center to the right.


I am sitting at about 13" from the screen. The screen is a 135" but I am not filling it completely and no matter if I fill it completely or not (simulating a 100" e.g.) the hotspot still there. I can't sit farther because of my wall.


Do you think if I center the coffee table at the center of screen and thus the projector would be exactly at the center of the screen the problem would be gone?. Yesterday late at night I tried doing this and I could "swear" the problem was gone or at least diminished a lot but now I don't know if my mind was playing tricks on me. Of course I need more experimenting but I could center the projector at the screen doing some work with my wall but wouldn't want to do all the work and not getting any noticeable result.


Does the "solution" (centering the projector at the center of the screen) sound logical to you? I am at loss. I was very happy with the image of my projector and the size but didn't know it was going to be that hard and stressful and sometimes I think I should just give up on the projector, return it and buy a 75" HDTV. Please help me, I am at loss.


Additional question: Is is true that the closer you get the projector to the screen the less precise FOCUS you would get? Thanks!!


----------



## obonillaf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obonillaf*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24732667
> 
> 
> Hello everybody. I just installed my Cinegrey 5D screen yesterday. I am using it with an Epson 5030 projector. Before said screen I was using the projector against my white wall and I placed the projector in a coffee table situated at the far LEFT from the screen, NOT CENTERED. I "center" the image via lens shiftting. Because of terrible reflections I chose the Cinegrey 5D to help fix them and I got great results at that. The only terrible problem I am having is a very pronounced HOTSPOT that while being seated at the center of the screen, makes all images from the center to the left noticeable brighter than the images from the center to the right.
> 
> 
> I am sitting at about 13" from the screen. The screen is a 135" but I am not filling it completely and no matter if I fill it completely or not (simulating a 100" e.g.) the hotspot still there. I can't sit farther because of my wall.
> 
> 
> Do you think if I center the coffee table at the center of screen and thus the projector would be exactly at the center of the screen the problem would be gone?. Yesterday late at night I tried doing this and I could "swear" the problem was gone or at least diminished a lot but now I don't know if my mind was playing tricks on me. Of course I need more experimenting but I could center the projector at the screen doing some work with my wall but wouldn't want to do all the work and not getting any noticeable result.
> 
> 
> Does the "solution" (centering the projector at the center of the screen) sound logical to you? I am at loss. I was very happy with the image of my projector and the size but didn't know it was going to be that hard and stressful and sometimes I think I should just give up on the projector, return it and buy a 75" HDTV. Please help me, I am at loss.
> 
> 
> Additional question: Is is true that the closer you get the projector to the screen the less precise FOCUS you would get? Thanks!!



Actually from reading the definition of hot spotting I am now not sure if what I am experiencing is hot spotting or not. I mean its not actually that I see a circular bright spot on the center of the screen but basically that the center to the left part of the screen is brighter than the center to right part...


Thank a you lot Ben. Yes I've been using the feet of my projector. I can perfectly live with a not perfectly rectangular shape. I've been doing some more experimenting and I think the problem is with some side windows I have precisely situated on the right side of the screen (the side that seems duller and not as bright). Maybe the reflect or shadow said windows are doing (in the day sun light, in the night some reflectors on the street) that create a "shadow" or external/outside brightness in the right part of the screen are the cause of me experiencing more brightness/clarity on the left side and duller/darker images on the right side. I did some experiment with a heavy mini curtain I have and the problem seem to be gone. Think I'll install black out curtains in all those right windows to get better results.


Funny think is that it is my wife who is convincing me to keep the projector and don't get the 75" HDTV!


----------



## kronik




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillY2KFRC*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24704399
> 
> 
> Can this screen material be had in an electric drop down? I wasn't able to find that option on their website. Seems like a great value and I love to hear that you don't get any sparkles with this screen.



I've been looking for the same thing.. I e-mailed them and they said it was not an option. I guess the Supernova Flex Classic is as close as I can get to a reasonably priced, retractable, ambient light rejection screen?


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obonillaf*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24732862
> 
> 
> Actually from reading the definition of hot spotting I am now not sure if what I am experiencing is hot spotting or not. I mean its not actually that I see a circular bright spot on the center of the screen but basically that the center to the left part of the screen is brighter than the center to right part...
> 
> 
> Thank a you lot Ben. Yes I've been using the feet of my projector. I can perfectly live with a not perfectly rectangular shape. I've been doing some more experimenting and I think the problem is with some side windows I have precisely situated on the right side of the screen (the side that seems duller and not as bright). Maybe the reflect or shadow said windows are doing (in the day sun light, in the night some reflectors on the street) that create a "shadow" or external/outside brightness in the right part of the screen are the cause of me experiencing more brightness/clarity on the left side and duller/darker images on the right side. I did some experiment with a heavy mini curtain I have and the problem seem to be gone. Think I'll install black out curtains in all those right windows to get better results.
> 
> 
> Funny think is that it is my wife who is convincing me to keep the projector and don't get the 75" HDTV!



I'm no expert since this is my first projection screen ever, but I would say that horizontally centering your projector on the screen should be the best location for uniform brightness on an angular reflective screen like this one. Considering that the screen does hot spot slightly you would probably want to project as close to center as possible and as far back as you can. My projector is 18 feet from the 125" 16:9 screen centered horizontally but hangs from the ceiling. As a result I "think" there may be a hot spot towards the top center of the screen. Its really not obvious at all and could even be a placebo as I don't see it AT ALL unless I really try to. I can say to back up your claim about the window that I do have light coming in from outside my room that does dim one side of the screen slightly but the screen is totally watchable under this condition. Once I tame that light the screen is pretty sharp from left to right and looks great! I think because the screen does such a good job at handling ambient light we overlook placement and light sources that might be detrimental to an already awesome picture with the lights on.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24712901
> 
> 
> Send in an explanation and attach a pic , they got back to me within 30 min



Thanks. Yeah no fuss at all. They sent me an RMA # and just asked that I send my material in and they will replace it with a quality tested one from their warehouse. did you get your replacement yet? I havent had much time to remove my screen and all 100 clips attached. Lol


----------



## obonillaf

Well, I'm not returning my projector but even though I tried the screen with black out curtains the problem still there. Now I have done all the experimenting and the conclusion is: no matter where I place the projector (far to the left or to the center) if I seat exactly at the center of the screen or to the right of the screen from the center to the left is brighter than from the center to the right. Only if I seat toward the right of the screen all the screen now looks the same level of brightness as the "dull" side, I mean, everything has the same low brightness I see at the right side when I seat to the center.


I positioned the projector toward a white wall and now the picture looks at the same exact brightness so it's a fact that it's the screen that is causing said effect. The screen cost me +800 so I guess I will have to live with it. frown.gif


Wonder if I bought a Da Lite High Contrast Matte White if I would have the same problem or not that problem but the problem of reflections.


This Cinegrey 5D could have been the perfect screen!


----------



## ben38

As i said before Obonillaf, It really does seem like you'll be much happier with a screen that has uniform brightness across the entire screen. (I.E. a white screen) Call Elite and ask them if you can exchange the CINEGREY5D material for the CineWhite material. Since you already have blackout shades and a bright projector with great contrast, the Cinewhite with a 1.1 gain should serve you very well.


----------



## obonillaf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24735056
> 
> 
> As i said before Obonillaf, It really does seem like you'll be much happier with a screen that has uniform brightness across the entire screen. (I.E. a white screen) Call Elite and ask them if you can exchange the CINEGREY5D material for the CineWhite material. Since you already have blackout shades and a bright projector with great contrast, the Cinewhite with a 1.1 gain should serve you very well.



The situation is that my living room reflections problem is not solved by the blackout curtains I have installed. All my room is white so I have reflections everywhere. I posted photos of my living room and everyone at avsforum told me that buying a "regular" screen like Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White (gain 1.1) could not help in anyway my problem and that I really needed a special screen for rejecting ambient light. While the Cinegrey 5D can't do miracles and is still affected if I turn the lights in my living room it has managed well the situation when watching at night. No more reflections issues caused by the white walls, ceiling, etc.


I guess I'll have to live with the issues that come along with higher gain and/or light rejecting screens. I think I might not be the only one living with this "problem" right and still enjoy the projector, right?


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *obonillaf*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24736408
> 
> 
> The situation is that my living room reflections problem is not solved by the blackout curtains I have installed. All my room is white so I have reflections everywhere. I posted photos of my living room and everyone at avsforum told me that buying a "regular" screen like Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White (gain 1.1) could not help in anyway my problem and that I really needed a special screen for rejecting ambient light. While the Cinegrey 5D can't do miracles and is still affected if I turn the lights in my living room it has managed well the situation when watching at night. No more reflections issues caused by the white walls, ceiling, etc.
> 
> 
> I guess I'll have to live with the issues that come along with higher gain and/or light rejecting screens. I think I might not be the only one living with this "problem" right and still enjoy the projector, right?


My apologies for jumping to conclusions without getting all the facts.

Yes. it's true you need a grey screen. There might still be better solutions for your problem, though. If you want to mostly use the screen at night but still want better contrast, you might look into getting a regular grey screen with a lower gain. The advantage of a lower gain screen is less light reflected back to the walls with much wider viewing angles while still giving you improved contrast. Your projector (Epson 5030) has more than enough output to compensate for the lower screen gain.

Other options to look into (Apart from repainting your room) are the characteristics of light rejecting screens. Some screens reject overhead lights and others reject side lights. (the Cinegrey 5D looks to me to fall more into the overhead light side.)

Maybe if it's possible to move or angle your lights in a different direction.

I guess what I'm getting at is that your "problem" probably has a solution if you just continue to try different things.

Again, my apologies for jumping to conclusions.


----------



## obonillaf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ben38*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24736666
> 
> 
> My apologies for jumping to conclusions without getting all the facts.
> 
> Yes. it's true you need a grey screen. There might still be better solutions for your problem, though. If you want to mostly use the screen at night but still want better contrast, you might look into getting a regular grey screen with a lower gain. The advantage of a lower gain screen is less light reflected back to the walls with much wider viewing angles while still giving you improved contrast. Your projector (Epson 5030) has more than enough output to compensate for the lower screen gain.
> 
> Other options to look into (Apart from repainting your room) are the characteristics of light rejecting screens. Some screens reject overhead lights and others reject side lights. (the Cinegrey 5D looks to me to fall more into the overhead light side.)
> 
> Maybe if it's possible to move or angle your lights in a different direction.
> 
> I guess what I'm getting at is that your "problem" probably has a solution if you just continue to try different things.
> 
> Again, my apologies for jumping to conclusions.



Thank you for your help. I guess that the "off angle" loss in brightness is a fact of life that everyone with AR screen should learn to live, right? Actually, I've been reading about AR and it's said that AR screen dimmer at the edges than at the center, so for a viewer seated to the left, the picture is brighter on the left side of the screen than on the right. So, one way or the other, all being perfectly centered I would always have the edges dimmer, no way to get absolute 100% brightness uniformity, right?


I asked a question in the 5030 forum and I got these very informative reply:


"_If the PJ is 4 feet to the left off center, then the (lets call it sweet spot) will be 4 feet to the right of center, at a height equal to the PJ. Lens shift has no impact on the light cone of an Angular Reflective screen. Angle of incidence equals angle of reflection._"


My PJ is not at the center of the screen but a few inches to the left and I've been using lens shiffting. I guess that's why when I am seated at the center of the screen, I am NOT at the sweet spot but X inches away from the sweet spot and hence why I see the left side brighter than the right side. So yes, as you told me, I guess I just need to do more and more experimenting to get better results or if not at least to calm my OCD know that one way or the other, as I said, there's nothing more I can do with my screen as no AR screen will bring 100% uniformity, live with it and enjoy. You see, my OCD rests easily when I know there's nothing more I can do about X thing because that's how said thing works (its it's nature). My OCD triggers when I know X thing I am doing can be done better and I am not doing anything to fix it.


----------



## KTM250

Well I got my screen put up last night and all I can say is what a disapointment. I had an elite screen with the cinewhite material before and wanted to make things look better when there were some lights on. Well now I have a picture with a bright band from top to bottom in the center of the screen and to the left and right of this it is a lot dimmer. Also the picture has a real bad grain or screen door effect. Bottom line the picture is terrible. Not sure if there is anyway to correct this? My setup is an epson 5020 hung from the ceiling, it is centered left to right and is about 10 feet from the screen.


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KTM250*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24751514
> 
> 
> Well I got my screen put up last night and all I can say is what a disapointment. I had an elite screen with the cinewhite material before and wanted to make things look better when there were some lights on. Well now I have a picture with a bright band from top to bottom in the center of the screen and to the left and right of this it is a lot dimmer. Also the picture has a real bad grain or screen door effect. Bottom line the picture is terrible. Not sure if there is anyway to correct this? My setup is an epson 5020 hung from the ceiling, it is centered left to right and is about 10 feet from the screen.


Your projector may be too high or your screen too low. Plus, 10 feet is a really short throw for this type of screen. I don't know how close you're seated. If you're seated too close, (8 feet or less?) you'll have more of a screen door effect because the screen has a higher gain in the middle. (Which is being amplified by the short throw.) The screen being much dimmer on the sides is also a consequence of the short throw coupled with the screens narrow viewing cone. Placement of projector, screen, and seating are extremely important for all light rejecting screens. And ,I suppose you know already, you must recalibrate your projector anytime you get a new screen.


Before you call Elite for an exchange, try experimenting with the placement of your projector and screen. If that's just not possible, or everything you've tried hasn't improved things, then get in touch with Elite. You may have a bad screen.


----------



## KTM250

Ben thanks. I have been playing around with the placement of the pj and nothing seems to fix the problem completely. Moving it back as far as I can and reducing the contrast has helped but it still looks like I have a spot light in the middle of the screen. I'm wondering if the combination of the short throw and the high light output of the projector is not the problem. I guess that if these screens are this touchy on placement then I guess they are not for me. The cinewhite gave me none of these problems. Oh we'll there's 400 down the toilet.


----------



## quamosa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KTM250*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24752866
> 
> 
> Ben thanks. I have been playing around with the placement of the pj and nothing seems to fix the problem completely. Moving it back as far as I can and reducing the contrast has helped but it still looks like I have a spot light in the middle of the screen. I'm wondering if the combination of the short throw and the high light output of the projector is not the problem. I guess that if these screens are this touchy on placement then I guess they are not for me. The cinewhite gave me none of these problems. Oh we'll there's 400 down the toilet.



I think the material is great, not perfect but great. I've had minor issues but nothing like you describe. Do you think you can capture what you are seeing in a picture and post it here?


----------



## ben38

I agree with Quamosa. If it's possible to post photos of your room and your screen problems, perhaps we can collectively come up with a solution.

If all else fails, you may want to make an exchange for the regular cinegrey material.


----------



## sjforum

I'm new to the projector game and am about to try out the BENQ W1070 and am looking for a reasonably priced screen that would be OK for 2D and 3D, and saw this Elite Screen on Amazon. I have a large basement with low ambient light. The projector will be ceiling mounted about 8ft high about 14ft from the screen. Seating should be about 9-11ft back. While for movie watching I'd be in front of the screen, the bar is on the other side of the basement and I'm wondering if the screen will look "OK" at side angles... say 45 degrees, for when I have friends around and people are sitting at the bar watching sports etc. In a couple of the posted pictures it seems reasonable but wanted to get thoughts.


Thanks in advance for feedback!


If anyone has alternate recommendations that would be good too.


----------



## ben38

If you're In a basement, you'll have good light control. Get a matte white screen. You'll get even lighting across the entire screen at any viewing angle.


----------



## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sjforum*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/90#post_24758107
> 
> 
> I'm new to the projector game and am about to try out the BENQ W1070 and am looking for a reasonably priced screen that would be OK for 2D and 3D, and saw this Elite Screen on Amazon. I have a large basement with low ambient light. The projector will be ceiling mounted about 8ft high about 14ft from the screen. Seating should be about 9-11ft back. While for movie watching I'd be in front of the screen, the bar is on the other side of the basement and I'm wondering if the screen will look "OK" at side angles... say 45 degrees, for when I have friends around and people are sitting at the bar watching sports etc. In a couple of the posted pictures it seems reasonable but wanted to get thoughts.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for feedback!
> 
> 
> If anyone has alternate recommendations that would be good too.



I'm using a W1070 and the cinegrey screen. I'm pretty happy with it, but if you have decent light control go with something like a Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White. That's my previous screen, and it has better uniformity than the cinegrey and is half the money. I did some limited testing with 3d and at least with 3d games the Da-Lite looked just fine.


----------



## sjforum

Thank for the feedback Ben38 and ruggerCB..


Looking for the Da-Lite,it only seems to come in the pull down version.. and is considerably cheaper at


----------



## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sjforum*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/120#post_24760758
> 
> 
> Thank for the feedback Ben38 and ruggerCB..
> 
> 
> Looking for the Da-Lite,it only seems to come in the pull down version.. and is considerably cheaper at


----------



## KTM250

Just a follow up on my bright band problem. I ended up contacting Elite about the problem and they had me try a few things. We were unable to resolve the issue so I am sending the screen back and there are going to replace it with a cinewhite screen at my request. What a joy it was to put my old cinewhite screen backup and see even brightness across the screen. I just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Elite service in there handling of my issue.


----------



## ben38




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KTM250*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/120#post_24770546
> 
> 
> Just a follow up on my bright band problem. I ended up contacting Elite about the problem and they had me try a few things. We were unable to resolve the issue so I am sending the screen back and there are going to replace it with a cinewhite screen at my request. What a joy it was to put my old cinewhite screen backup and see even brightness across the screen. I just wanted to give a big thumbs up to Elite service in there handling of my issue.


Happy to hear you've resolved your problem. As much as i love my Cinegrey 5D, I'm not above saying that it's not for everyone. All high gain, light rejecting screens (Yes, including those $4000 dollar BD screens) should be considered the final option, not the first option. Happy to hear Elite did right by you KTM250. Enjoy your new Cinewhite screen.


----------



## ruggercb

The brightness uniformity thing has been bothering me a lot, so I did some experimenting. I moved the screen over a foot up the wall and it improved the image greatly. It seems it's not the angle I am from the screen but the angle the PJ is from the screen that really matters. After figuring out the problem I wholeheartedly recommend this screen material.


When I first bought the screen I had it up higher on the wall but ended up putting it lower permanently. I didn't realize it made such a huge difference when I dropped it a foot or so. Moral of the story- get the angles right for your angular reflective screen.


----------



## Mike Garrett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruggercb*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/120#post_24780515
> 
> 
> The brightness uniformity thing has been bothering me a lot, so I did some experimenting. I moved the screen over a foot up the wall and it improved the image greatly. It seems it's not the angle I am from the screen but the angle the PJ is from the screen that really matters. After figuring out the problem I wholeheartedly recommend this screen material.
> 
> 
> When I first bought the screen I had it up higher on the wall but ended up putting it lower permanently. I didn't realize it made such a huge difference when I dropped it a foot or so. Moral of the story- get the angles right for your angular reflective screen.



What size screen and what is your throw distance?


----------



## ruggercb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV Science Sales 5*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/120#post_24788021
> 
> 
> What size screen and what is your throw distance?



100" Screen. I tried throw distance from minimum to maximum for the BenQ which is somewhere around 8-11 feet. It didn't matter too much it seems. I think one of the key components of the solution was NOT using the vertical lens shift on the PJ. That and just the proper angle from PJ to screen.


----------



## Mike Garrett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ruggercb*  /t/1501120/has-anyone-tried-the-elite-cinegrey-5d-screen-yet/120#post_24788160
> 
> 
> 100" Screen. I tried throw distance from minimum to maximum for the BenQ which is somewhere around 8-11 feet. It didn't matter too much it seems. I think one of the key components of the solution was NOT using the vertical lens shift on the PJ. That and just the proper angle from PJ to screen.



The minimum throw distance for that screen should be around 11'. Anything less will result in hot spotting.


----------



## Tripplesixty

So I've noticed there is a ton of reviews about the performance of the CineGrey5D in ambient light conditions... I have not however heard much about its performance in dark, or near dark conditions. My room is mostly light controlled, with blackout curtains. The only light visible in the room is light through two double doors (from the side) which have frosted glass allowing diffused light to pass through during the day.

I do the majority of watching in the afternoon into the evening. I would say about 70% of the watching will happen when I have an almost completely dark room. However I want to be able to watch during the day, when there is ambient light from the glass doors. This lead me to look into this grey screen material.

So how does the CineGrey5D do at light controlled rooms? Is color accuracy lacking vs a white material screen?


----------



## quamosa

Tripplesixty said:


> So I've noticed there is a ton of reviews about the performance of the CineGrey5D in ambient light conditions... I have not however heard much about its performance in dark, or near dark conditions. My room is mostly light controlled, with blackout curtains. The only light visible in the room is light through two double doors (from the side) which have frosted glass allowing diffused light to pass through during the day.
> 
> I do the majority of watching in the afternoon into the evening. I would say about 70% of the watching will happen when I have an almost completely dark room. However I want to be able to watch during the day, when there is ambient light from the glass doors. This lead me to look into this grey screen material.
> 
> So how does the CineGrey5D do at light controlled rooms? Is color accuracy lacking vs a white material screen?


Tripplesixty this is my first screen so I cant really speak on the comparison with a white screen. I can just say that to my naked eye i don't notice any color shift. I have pics of movie scenes with lights on and off. The only thing that changes to my eyes is the contrast. I've had a few folks look at my screen with some lights on and they think it looks incredible. I can tell you it looks even better than that with the lights off and the colors still seem to pop whether lights are on or off. I am using the Panny 8000 which is a decently bright projector so that I'm sure has a little to do with the performance of the screen.


----------



## paulfromtulsa

Tripplesixty said:


> So I've noticed there is a ton of reviews about the performance of the CineGrey5D in ambient light conditions... I have not however heard much about its performance in dark, or near dark conditions. My room is mostly light controlled, with blackout curtains. The only light visible in the room is light through two double doors (from the side) which have frosted glass allowing diffused light to pass through during the day.
> 
> I do the majority of watching in the afternoon into the evening. I would say about 70% of the watching will happen when I have an almost completely dark room. However I want to be able to watch during the day, when there is ambient light from the glass doors. This lead me to look into this grey screen material.
> 
> So how does the CineGrey5D do at light controlled rooms? Is color accuracy lacking vs a white material screen?


i have not noticed color accuracy difference between my cinegrey 5d and my old cinewhite material. the biggest difference between the 2 screens is that i can watch the pj with the lights on where as i could not with the white screen. with the lights off i havent noticed much of a difference in picture quality, maybe i could if i could do a side by side. but not having that i havent noticed any difference. if your looking for a ambient light screen i would recommend the cinegrey 5d. i love this screen!!!


----------



## SteveS78

Does anyone that has seen both the Cinegray 5D Ambient Light Rejecting screens and the regular Cinegray high contrast screens feel like there is a difference to the naked eye in terms of how each screen displays the images with the lights on?


----------



## paulfromtulsa

SteveS78 said:


> Does anyone that has seen both the Cinegray 5D Ambient Light Rejecting screens and the regular Cinegray high contrast screens feel like there is a difference to the naked eye in terms of how each screen displays the images with the lights on?


Regular cinegrey is discontinued


----------



## SteveS78

paulfromtulsa said:


> Regular cinegrey is discontinued


Perhaps it is. But a bunch of the places still sell it like Amazon, etc. I am just wandering about the difference discontinued or not.


----------



## SteveS78

Bump....anyone?


----------



## dru8p

is there anything within this price range/quality with a thin bezel like the zero edge or UTB contour? this will be my first setup so not sure i want to shell out that much for a screen as i'm not sure if 120" will be too big.
(12' throw, 11' seating roughly, benq w1070)


----------



## catch20two

quamosa said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *gotmilk516*
> 
> Send in an explanation and attach a pic , they got back to me within 30 min
> 
> 
> Thanks. Yeah no fuss at all. They sent me an RMA # and just asked that I send my material in and they will replace it with a quality tested one from their warehouse. did you get your replacement yet? I havent had much time to remove my screen and all 100 clips attached. Lol


Was the new screen material better? I just got a 120" and I love the performance both with and without ambient light, but the bright bands are pretty bothersome during pans. If I could send in for one without the bands, it'd be great, but I don't want to bother if this is just a property of the material.


----------



## quamosa

catch20two said:


> Was the new screen material better? I just got a 120" and I love the performance both with and without ambient light, but the bright bands are pretty bothersome during pans. If I could send in for one without the bands, it'd be great, but I don't want to bother if this is just a property of the material.


The answer is an emphatic yes. There are zero bands in the replacement material and it looks perfect!


----------



## merkaba

How are viewing angles on this material vs the cinewhite?


----------



## ben38

merkaba said:


> How are viewing angles on this material vs the cinewhite?


 The Cinegrey 5d concentrates brightness towards the center of the screen to fight the ambient light. The viewing cone is about 30 percent. What that means is maximum screen brightness is from the center of the screen and going out 30 degrees from the center. So if you're seated more than 30 degrees from the center of the screen, the screen's brightness will be less. The Cinewhite has a much larger viewing cone, so its brightness is more uniform from any seating position. 
That doesn't mean that the Cinegrey 5d fades into nothingness at strong angles like an LCD TV does. Even at strong angles the screen is still very watchable.

Here's a video i shot some months ago that shows the viewing angles of this screen.


----------



## merkaba

ben38 said:


> The Cinegrey 5d concentrates brightness towards the center of the screen to fight the ambient light. The viewing cone is about 30 percent. What that means is maximum screen brightness is from the center of the screen and going out 30 degrees from the center. So if you're seated more than 30 degrees from the center of the screen, the screen's brightness will be less. The Cinewhite has a much larger viewing cone, so its brightness is more uniform from any seating position.
> That doesn't mean that the Cinegrey 5d fades into nothingness at strong angles like an LCD TV does. Even at strong angles the screen is still very watchable.
> 
> Here's a video i shot some months ago that shows the viewing angles of this screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SbsxjdslqM


Thanks for the video, was quite helpful. It seems more than acceptable from extreme viewing angles. I'm trying to decide on a matte white vs this cinegrey 5d screen for my basement. It will be a light controlled room, but being able to watch TV during the day with the kids running around it's much more practical to not have to make the room real dark.


----------



## twinturbo11

Hey guys,

Quick question:

I am planing to get the Epson 5030UB for 150" diagonal 16:9 screen that is 22 feet away.

Usually, I will watch movies at night - so limited to no ambient light.

In such a scenario, am I better off with the CineWhite, or the CineGrey5D? Given that the distance is pretty long, which one will look brighter/better contrast/colors in a light controlled environment? thanks


----------



## ben38

It depends on what you consider a light controlled environment. There's more to having a light controlled room than just using the room at night. The color of your walls and ceiling play a big part in controlling light. How close is the screen to your ceiling? Do you have a highly reflective floor? There's a number of variables involved here before an opinion on a screen can be considered.


----------



## Tripplesixty

twinturbo11 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> I am planing to get the Epson 5030UB for 150" diagonal 16:9 screen that is 22 feet away.
> 
> Usually, I will watch movies at night - so limited to no ambient light.
> 
> In such a scenario, am I better off with the CineWhite, or the CineGrey5D? Given that the distance is pretty long, which one will look brighter/better contrast/colors in a light controlled environment? thanks





ben38 said:


> It depends on what you consider a light controlled environment. There's more to having a light controlled room than just using the room at night. The color of your walls and ceiling play a big part in controlling light. How close is the screen to your ceiling? Do you have a highly reflective floor? There's a number of variables involved here before an opinion on a screen can be considered.



ben38 is right.... it depends, however in a perfectly light controlled room use a white screen, typically you get better colors and with these materials you will have less chance of hot spotting and vignette effect... The projector you mention is SUPER bright (i have one so i know)... but if you ever have ambient light and want to use it during the day, atleast consider a grey screen.


----------



## twinturbo11

ben38 said:


> It depends on what you consider a light controlled environment. There's more to having a light controlled room than just using the room at night. The color of your walls and ceiling play a big part in controlling light. How close is the screen to your ceiling? Do you have a highly reflective floor? There's a number of variables involved here before an opinion on a screen can be considered.


Hey guys , thanks for the reply. The screen will be 2 feet away from the ceiling and 3 feet off the floor. The right and left walls are about 4-6 feet away on each side. All walls and ceilings are white matte color, even my floor is white-colored matte parquet.

Projector is perfectly centered and 22 feet away from the screen. I sit 18 feet away from the screen.

Two concerns I had: 

(1) you mentioned a white screen will have better colors in night-time viewing in my setup, but will it have as good or better contrast/deepblacks as the CineGrey5D ? this seems to be an open question in this thread...
(2) everyone is mentioning the positioning angles are important to take advantage of the CineGrey5D. Although I and my projector will be centered, are the distances mentioned above ok for the reflective nature of the Grey5D?

Thank you!


----------



## ben38

twinturbo11 said:


> Hey guys , thanks for the reply. The screen will be 2 feet away from the ceiling and 3 feet off the floor. The right and left walls are about 4-6 feet away on each side. All walls and ceilings are white matte color, even my floor is white-colored matte parquet.
> 
> Projector is perfectly centered and 22 feet away from the screen. I sit 18 feet away from the screen.
> 
> Two concerns I had:
> 
> (1) you mentioned a white screen will have better colors in night-time viewing in my setup, but will it have as good or better contrast/deepblacks as the CineGrey5D ? this seems to be an open question in this thread...
> (2) everyone is mentioning the positioning angles are important to take advantage of the CineGrey5D. Although I and my projector will be centered, are the distances mentioned above ok?
> 
> Thank you!


 This is why I asked about the colors of your ceiling and walls. It's good that your screen is not too close to the ceiling, but you're far from having a light controlled room. In this case, a gray screen with extra gain is what you need.
You'll need the extra gain because despite the 5030ub having a reputation of being a light cannon, it's really only super bright in Dynamic mode. Even in dynamic mode the 5030ub will stuggle to light up a 150 inch screen at 22 feet. 
I've personally measured the gain on the Cinegray 5D with the projector aimed at the center of the screen to be just over 1.3 at center, and slightly over 1.0 at the sides. (not as high as advertised, but still pretty good)
With those numbers in mind, in dynamic mode, the Epson 5030ub can put out 13 footlamberts onto your 150 inch screen at 22 feet. In a dark room, that's enough to give you a pretty good looking image. However, once you switch to any other mode, the picture will dim quite a bit.

As to you first concern, the Cinegrey 5D will preserve your blacks and contrast much better than a white screen could in your room.


----------



## twinturbo11

ben38 said:


> As to you first concern, the Cinegrey 5D will preserve your blacks and contrast much better than a white screen could in your room.



Thank you very much for your advice. I just called Elite and I am screwed. 

Apparently the CineGrey 5D only comes in a fixed frame, not a roll, because it is "too thin". Only the maxwhite, cinewhite, and standard cinegrey come in a roll. Unfortunately I need to have to have a motorized screen roll, because it is coming down directly in front of a large book case/entertainment center. Any ideas on what i should do/consider? thank you


----------



## twinturbo11

Tripplesixty said:


> ben38 is right.... it depends, however in a perfectly light controlled room use a white screen, typically you get better colors and with these materials you will have less chance of hot spotting and vignette effect... The projector you mention is SUPER bright (i have one so i know)... but if you ever have ambient light and want to use it during the day, atleast consider a grey screen.


I wonder if a 1.3 or 1.5 gain white color screen make sense for me? Or should higher gains be used in conjunction with grey color screens..


----------



## ben38

twinturbo11 said:


> I wonder if a 1.3 or 1.5 gain white color screen make sense for me? Or should higher gains be used in conjunction with grey color screens..


 If you really want to go with a white screen, you must tone down the brightness in your room. White wall. White floor. White ceiling. That's just way too much white. White is a 100 percent reflective color. It reflects back 100 percent of the light that hits it. At night, when you're watching dark scenes in a movie, all is well. But as soon as a light scene comes on the screen, your walls will light up like flashlights and wash out all the beautiful blacks your projector is capable of.
I've always been a firm believer that a low gain white screen should be the first option when buying a screen. But in some situations, a white screen just isn't practical. That's when darker screens come into play. Higher gain screens come into play when your projector needs help with light output. In your case you'll need both.


----------



## twinturbo11

ben38 said:


> If you really want to go with a white screen, you must tone down the brightness in your room. White wall. White floor. White ceiling. That's just way too much white. White is a 100 percent reflective color. It reflects back 100 percent of the light that hits it. At night, when you're watching dark scenes in a movie, all is well. But as soon as a light scene comes on the screen, your walls will light up like flashlights and wash out all the beautiful blacks your projector is capable of.
> I've always been a firm believer that a low gain white screen should be the first option when buying a screen. But in some situations, a white screen just isn't practical. That's when darker screens come into play. Higher gain screens come into play when your projector needs help with light output. In your case you'll need both.


Thank you, i complete understand now. Issue is: Is there a darker screen with 1.3-1.5 gain, that can be motorized as well?


----------



## ben38

The only screens i can find are very expensive. A Stewart Firehawk, a Black Diamond, and a DNP Supernova. All very pricey screens.


----------



## twinturbo11

ben38 said:


> The only screens i can find are very expensive. A Stewart Firehawk, a Black Diamond, and a DNP Supernova. All very pricey screens.



darn, anything less than $1500 ?


----------



## BillY2KFRC

twinturbo11 said:


> darn, anything less than $1500 ?


The Seymour A/V Matinee Black material may be available in a motorized tensioned screen soon. I believe the price is sub $2,000, which would be excellent. I recently received a sample from them and was impressed with material, seems similar to the others, very minimal sparkles. My last e-mail from the Seymour rep said they are hoping it will work rolled up and they have some pre-ordered already, but that they still have some final testing to do before they can confirm availability.


----------



## quamosa

Interesting, sounds like this Matinee Black material would be a nice interim upgrade in the near future if I don't have the funds to move to a Black Diamond or DNP. But first things first, I must complete the theater. Shielding my eyes from this thread now..


----------



## twinturbo11

Hey guys,

i just checked out the black diamond. It actually maxes out at 110 or 120 inches (for the retractable version). So even the black diamond cannot meet my 150" retractable grey-color ambiant-light rejecting requirement. However, the makers of the black diamond, Screen Innovations, do have a slightly lower-end retractable grey screen called the "Slate" with 1.2 gain in 150 inches. Here's more info on it: http://www.screeninnovations.com/materials/ambient-materials/slate/

Do you guys think it's good for my setup?


----------



## daniel26or

Hi guys, I am new at projectors, I am thinking on buying a Epson 6030ub and a 150 in Cinegrey 5d, I planned to place the projector on the ceiling about 18 ft away from the screen, the room is all wihte ( walls and ceiling), I wonder if the image on the screen will be ok at this distance, there is some light comming in from the ceiling windows, wich I plan to block them out with black out.

any suggestions????


----------



## Tripplesixty

daniel26or said:


> Hi guys, I am new at projectors, I am thinking on buying a Epson 6030ub and a 150 in Cinegrey 5d, I planned to place the projector on the ceiling about 18 ft away from the screen, the room is all wihte ( walls and ceiling), I wonder if the image on the screen will be ok at this distance, there is some light comming in from the ceiling windows, wich I plan to block them out with black out.
> 
> any suggestions????


You should be fine.. its a great projector, I have the 5030ub on a 110" and in "bright" mode, meaning the full 2400 lumen cranking I can watch stuff during the day or with overhead lights on... It obviously operates at its best when the room is completely dark, but even with low amounts of ambient light the screen performs very well. The only complaint I have is that both screens I received have quality issues, blemishes that have not gone away after break-in. My first screen has spots the second one has banding on the lower 1/3 of the screen that is visible in bright situations.


----------



## ben38

After fielding a lot of questions about the amount of light drop-off for ambient light rejecting screens, I decided to shoot a video showing the light Drop-off of my Cinegrey 5D screen. I think this video will clearly show the downside of a specialty screen vs. a white screen. 
Incidentally, although i never had a chance to shoot video, I have done this test on other ambient light rejecting screens. Specifically, the DNP Supernova core with 23-23 material, the Stewart Firehawk G3, and the Black Diamond 1.4. Of all these screens, the worst performing by far was the Black Diamond. The other 3 screens (including the 5D) all performed about the same.
Hope you guys find this of interest.


----------



## jayteez

Tripplesixty said:


> You should be fine.. its a great projector, I have the 5030ub on a 110" and in "bright" mode, meaning the full 2400 lumen cranking I can watch stuff during the day or with overhead lights on... It obviously operates at its best when the room is completely dark, but even with low amounts of ambient light the screen performs very well. The only complaint I have is that both screens I received have quality issues, blemishes that have not gone away after break-in. My first screen has spots the second one has banding on the lower 1/3 of the screen that is visible in bright situations.


if it is a fixed screen, take out your screen material and flip it over. this solved my banding issues on my elite 120" powergain screen. YMMV


----------



## rirenter

I need some advice. Just purchased an Epson 6030ub not sure if I should go with 110" cinewhite or 110" Cinegray5D. My projector is ceiling mounted at a throw distance of 12'8" (centered on wall). My Couch is 14ft away. Do you think I would get hot spotting with the cinegrey5d? the room has some ambient lighting during the day. At night my room is completely dark. I have painted the walls in the room flat black except for the ceiling it remains a light brown color. Your advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## ben38

rirenter said:


> I need some advice. Just purchased an Epson 6030ub not sure if I should go with 110" cinewhite or 110" Cinegray5D. My projector is ceiling mounted at a throw distance of 12'8" (centered on wall). My Couch is 14ft away. Do you think I would get hot spotting with the cinegrey5d? the room has some ambient lighting during the day. At night my room is completely dark. I have painted the walls in the room flat black except for the ceiling it remains a light brown color. Your advice is greatly appreciated.


 From the description of your room, I'd say get the Cinewhite 110. 12'8" is fairly close for a Cinegrey 5D. You probably would get a hotspot. Plus it seems like your room is sufficiently dark. Couple that with a powerful projector like the 6030ub, and there's really no reason to use a Grey screen. 

Don't know what your room dimensions are, but at 14 feet, I'd want a screen a little bigger than 110 inches. I'm just saying.


----------



## rirenter

The room is 13'6" wide and 20' long. I wanted a bigger screen, but my plan is to have one couch at 14 feet and a second one at 11 feet. I figured anything over 110" at 11' would give somebody a headache. I really wanted to use cinegrey5D due to my passion for 3D movies but I am very worried about hotspots. due to a ceiling fan and return vents I am unable to push the projector back...



ben38 said:


> From the description of your room, I'd say get the Cinewhite 110. 12'8" is fairly close for a Cinegrey 5D. You probably would get a hotspot. Plus it seems like your room is sufficiently dark. Couple that with a powerful projector like the 6030ub, and there's really no reason to use a Grey screen.
> 
> Don't know what your room dimensions are, but at 14 feet, I'd want a screen a little bigger than 110 inches. I'm just saying.


----------



## ben38

rirenter said:


> The room is 13'6" wide and 20' long. I wanted a bigger screen, but my plan is to have one couch at 14 feet and a second one at 11 feet. I figured anything over 110" at 11' would give somebody a headache. I really wanted to use cinegrey5D due to my passion for 3D movies but I am very worried about hotspots. due to a ceiling fan and return vents I am unable to push the projector back...


Before you buy a screen, project onto the bare wall. This will give you an idea of the screen size to use.
Personally, I'm using a 120 inch screen at 11 feet and I'm fine with it. In fact, It's actually starting to feel a little small.


----------



## rirenter

I really would like a 120" but it was not recommended due to my throw distance. I was told I would be to close to maxing out my zoom, which could possible affect resolution... Im not sure what all this means...
My projector has a zoom ratio of 2.1:
At my current throw distance
110" screen = 1.83x
120" Screen = 2.01x


thoughts?




ben38 said:


> Before you buy a screen, project onto the bare wall. This will give you an idea of the screen size to use.
> Personally, I'm using a 120 inch screen at 11 feet and I'm fine with it. In fact, It's actually starting to feel a little small.


----------



## ben38

rirenter said:


> I really would like a 120" but it was not recommended due to my throw distance. I was told I would be to close to maxing out my zoom, which could possible affect resolution... Im not sure what all this means...
> My projector has a zoom ratio of 2.1:
> At my current throw distance
> 110" screen = 1.83x
> 120" Screen = 2.01x
> 
> 
> thoughts?


 The resolution is affected to a noticeable degree at the wide angle end of the lens with an increase in brightness. At the extreme zoom end, resolution is not affected to any noticeable degree, however, the brightness levels are about 30 percent less. Since you're already at 1.83 zoom, going to 2.01 isn't going to make any noticeable difference in resolution. The bigger culprit in the drop in visual quality is in the amount of lens shift you use.


----------



## rirenter

Wall that's good news! I have zero lens shift in the horizontal direction. I used epsons distance calculator to place my screen height (2" below the projector). So I should not have much lens shift in the vertical direction either. 




ben38 said:


> The resolution is affected to a noticeable degree at the wide angle end of the lens with an increase in brightness. At the extreme zoom end, resolution is not affected to any noticeable degree, however, the brightness levels are about 30 percent less. Since you're already at 1.83 zoom, going to 2.01 isn't going to make any noticeable difference in resolution. The bigger culprit in the drop in visual quality is in the amount of lens shift you use.


----------



## ben38

rirenter said:


> Wall that's good news! I have zero lens shift in the horizontal direction. I used epsons distance calculator to place my screen height (2" below the projector). So I should not have much lens shift in the vertical direction either.


 You should have no trouble at all. Blow it up to 120". The people seated at 14 feet will appreciate the extra size, and the ones at 11 feet should like it too.


----------



## Vlad Bamm

Does anyone know why the cinegrey 5d is out of stock most places? I would like to buy it from Amazon or anywhere with a nice return policy just incase. If anyone could help me out here I would appreciate it.


----------



## Roudan

any update on hotspotting? I am thinking to buy one but am concerned with the hotspoting. Thanks.


----------



## kopkiwi

Have a 110" screen from BHphotovideo on it's way to me in New Zealand.


----------



## Cj Supica

kopkiwi said:


> Have a 110" screen from BHphotovideo on it's way to me in New Zealand.


I'm interested if you will get it in a reasonable amount of time. I just talked to BH yesterday and they said they do not keep the cinegrey 5D on hand. So this has me wondering of they are taking orders for an item they wont be able to get. That is until elite finishes up the next production run of the 5D. I know projectorscreens claims to have the 110" in limited stock but that's about the only place online that has any in stock with a sub 700$ price tag. Not to mention Amazon just dropped the prices on some of the 5D's just in the past couple of days. I'm assuming this is to compete with silver tickets new alr screens. I'm actually quite curious about the silver ticket. The few post I can find about it seem very similar to the 5D. At this point I'll take whichever gets back in stock first. Silver ticket said their screens will be back mid February and I haven't heard word back from elite.


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## kopkiwi

Cj Supica said:


> I'm interested if you will get it in a reasonable amount of time. I just talked to BH yesterday and they said they do not keep the cinegrey 5D on hand. So this has me wondering of they are taking orders for an item they wont be able to get. That is until elite finishes up the next production run of the 5D. I know projectorscreens claims to have the 110" in limited stock but that's about the only place online that has any in stock with a sub 700$ price tag. Not to mention Amazon just dropped the prices on some of the 5D's just in the past couple of days. I'm assuming this is to compete with silver tickets new alr screens. I'm actually quite curious about the silver ticket. The few post I can find about it seem very similar to the 5D. At this point I'll take whichever gets back in stock first. Silver ticket said their screens will be back mid February and I haven't heard word back from elite.


I placed the order on January 1 and it still hasn't shipped, I am getting more than a little ****ed off


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## Cj Supica

Amazon randomly updated its stock on the silver ticket a moment ago. So naturally I had to grab it. I even call Amazon to confirm it was physically in their warehouse. We will see if it actually comes. if it does I can't wait to see how it compares to the cinegrey 5D. Sadly the comparison will only by from a memory of a five minute viewing.


----------



## ProjectionHead

*Q&A with Elite Screens on CineGrey 5D Surface & ALR*

ProjectorScreen.com just did a Q&A with Elite Screens about their CineGrey 5D surface and ALR surfaces overall:

http://www.projectorscreen.com/blog/Ambient-Light-Rejecting-QA-Elite-Screens


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## TH3_FRB

I really think a CineGrey 5D screen would help my situation of generally dull image due to a lot of light reflected off the ceiling but it really isn't an option unless they put it in a retractable format. Other options I've found are just too damn expensive.


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## Sir_Vival

Hey all - I recently got a sample of this material, and I'm trying to figure out if it'll work for me. Right now my projector (W1070) is the same distance from the screen..ok, wall.. as the seating. Both I'd guess are closer than 10 feet to the wall; can't find my tape measure. The projector is also a little below seating view height, projecting upwards. It's on a stool, not the best idea. 

Anyways, I wasn't too happy with the sample at first. The closest seat seemed OK, but not remarkably better. Even the next seat over was way too dark. However, when I went to the back of the room - probably another 5 feet back from the projector/seating - and I was standing, it looked remarkable even with some lights on. I'm assuming this is due to the angular reflectivity, and the fact that the ideal viewing cone would be larger that far back. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. 

My question is this: would moving my projector back to where I was standing then make where my seating is work better? Essentially flipping places. I can try it myself but it's going to be a hassle - it'll basically be my fiancee holding the projector towards the ceiling while I sit. I can't move my seating back as there's an island in the center of the room.

Edit: Oh man, look at my join date and number of posts!


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## TH3_FRB

I'm pretty sure it's your seating distance that is the issue. Moving the projector back doesn't change the viewing cone coming off the screen. What size screen would you be using?



Sir_Vival said:


> Hey all - I recently got a sample of this material, and I'm trying to figure out if it'll work for me. Right now my projector (W1070) is the same distance from the screen..ok, wall.. as the seating. Both I'd guess are closer than 10 feet to the wall; can't find my tape measure. The projector is also a little below seating view height, projecting upwards. It's on a stool, not the best idea.
> 
> Anyways, I wasn't too happy with the sample at first. The closest seat seemed OK, but not remarkably better. Even the next seat over was way too dark. However, when I went to the back of the room - probably another 5 feet back from the projector/seating - and I was standing, it looked remarkable even with some lights on. I'm assuming this is due to the angular reflectivity, and the fact that the ideal viewing cone would be larger that far back. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> My question is this: would moving my projector back to where I was standing then make where my seating is work better? Essentially flipping places. I can try it myself but it's going to be a hassle - it'll basically be my fiancee holding the projector towards the ceiling while I sit. I can't move my seating back as there's an island in the center of the room.
> 
> Edit: Oh man, look at my join date and number of posts!


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## Sir_Vival

TH3_FRB said:


> I'm pretty sure it's your seating distance that is the issue. Moving the projector back doesn't change the viewing cone coming off the screen. What size screen would you be using?


Unsure. Right now it's projecting around 100". Even when I put my head more or less in line vertically with the projector in its close spot it didn't look all that great.


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## ben38

Sir_Vival said:


> Unsure. Right now it's projecting around 100". Even when I put my head more or less in line vertically with the projector in its close spot it didn't look all that great.


 Unfortunately, screen samples (especially small ones) are almost useless for ALR screens. You have to see a full size ALR screen in action to get a GENERAL idea of how it looks. I emphasized GENERAL because every room and setup is different.


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## ruggercb

Long time no see everyone! I've not even looked at this thread since maybe last summer(lame I know). I've been happily using my Cinegrey 5d but am building a new house, and looking in to doing maybe a curved screen. Has anyone seen this kind of material in a curved screen and what it does to the picture? I wonder if it would make the brightness uniformity better or worse.


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## Dominic Chan

ruggercb said:


> I've been happily using my Cinegrey 5d but am building a new house, and looking in to doing maybe a curved screen. Has anyone seen this kind of material in a curved screen and what it does to the picture? I wonder if it would make the brightness uniformity better or worse.


For angular reflective surfaces, a curved screen should, at least in theory, improve the brightness uniformity as it reduces the centre-to-side variations in the angle of reflection.

However, based on some experimentation I did, I don't think I like the curved projection screens. One issue is the geometric distortion - a projected rectangle becomes slightly barrel-shaped (note that curved TVs do not have this issue).

Also, with only four or five inches of curvature (for a 120" screen), perceptually there's hardly any increase in the "immersion" effect which curved screen are supposed to provide.


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## ruggercb

Dominic Chan said:


> For angular reflective surfaces, a curved screen should, at least in theory, improve the brightness uniformity as it reduces the centre-to-side variations in the angle of reflection.
> 
> However, based on some experimentation I did, I don't think I like the curved projection screens. One issue is the geometric distortion - a projected rectangle becomes slightly barrel-shaped (note that curved TVs do not have this issue).
> 
> Also, with only four or five inches of curvature (for a 120" screen), perceptually there's hardly any increase in the "immersion" effect which curved screen are supposed to provide.


Makes sense. I've thought about doing an anamorphic lens (the DIY "award prism") and a 2.35:1 screen, and with that I think the curvature might be more immersive, but with a 16:9 I would tend to agree with you. 

The main reason I would try a curved 16:9 screen is for better brightness uniformity, but with my limited experimentation it hasn't done the trick. As often as not, the movies/gaming I do on the PJ is on a couch that's about 20-30 degrees off axis, so a curved screen might actually make it worse. I don't know, really. The brightest area tends to follow you around the room, so maybe having the closer edge to you slightly duller and the offside edge brighter might actually improve it.

Time for more experimentation.


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## Andrew67

So I've been toying with the idea of a projector. The CineGrey 5D looks like it would meet my needs (ambient light rejecting) and budget. Reading through this thread though, it appears to be a bad fit for my room. The projector would be ceiling mounted (8' ceilings, tight-ish to the ceiling), about 12-13' from the wall, seating distance at 12', and a approximate 92" screen. Projector wise it would be matched to an Epson 5025 or Sony VPL-HW40ES.

Is the consensus still that this would simply be a bad fit due to hot spotting, distance and the amount of vertical lens shift I would need?


----------



## ben38

Andrew67 said:


> So I've been toying with the idea of a projector. The CineGrey 5D looks like it would meet my needs (ambient light rejecting) and budget. Reading through this thread though, it appears to be a bad fit for my room. The projector would be ceiling mounted (8' ceilings, tight-ish to the ceiling), about 12-13' from the wall, seating distance at 12', and a approximate 92" screen. Projector wise it would be matched to an Epson 5025 or Sony VPL-HW40ES.
> 
> Is the consensus still that this would simply be a bad fit due to hot spotting, distance and the amount of vertical lens shift I would need?


 Is your screen 92 inches wide or Diagonal?

Anyway, if your screen is 92 inches wide, (105 inches diagonal) you should have a minimum of 11.5 feet of throw. (1.5 times the width)
At 92 inches diagonal, (80.25 inches wide) you should have a minimum of 10 feet of throw.
At these minimum throw distances the hotspot shouldn't be too intense. At longer throw distances, the hotspot intensity will be further reduced.

The Lens shift doesn't have any effect on the hotspot itself, but using too much lens shift may create slight barrel distortion and chromatic aberrations.

A 92 inch screen (92 inches diagonal or 105 inches diagonal) at a 12 foot viewing distance is a relatively small screen. Either one of those projectors has lots of lumens for a screen that small. You may not need a specialty screen. 
Get the projector first and project onto a bare wall or a white sheet to determine if a specialty screen is necessary.


----------



## Andrew67

Thanks for the reply. I was originally thinking about a 92" screen as my TV is 55" and a 92" seems HUGE, but maybe 100-110" would be better. I was worried about the vertical lens shift as to how that light would be reflected off of an ALR screen, but I may be over thinking things. This is all new to me. I also just discovered that unlike a TV screen, with a projector your eye level should be 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. With that in mind, vertical lens shift is even less of a problem.

It was this post that had me concerned...

hotspot concerns

Although he was dealing with horizontal lens shift and not vertical.


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## ruggercb

Andrew67 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was originally thinking about a 92" screen as my TV is 55" and a 92" seems HUGE, but maybe 100-110" would be better. I was worried about the vertical lens shift as to how that light would be reflected off of an ALR screen, but I may be over thinking things. This is all new to me. I also just discovered that unlike a TV screen, with a projector your eye level should be 1/3 up from the bottom of the screen. With that in mind, vertical lens shift is even less of a problem.
> 
> It was this post that had me concerned...
> 
> hotspot concerns
> 
> Although he was dealing with horizontal lens shift and not vertical.


I found the vertical lens shift on my benq w1070 really degraded the image quality. It was a lot less bright. Maybe it's just the PJ, but I think I'd steer clear of lens shift if possible.

This is a pretty good screen. I only notice the brightness roll off when it's running from my PC and there's a web page up, or the desktop or something. In motion I don't see it. Also, I NEVER watch it with all the lights off. There is always at least one light on in the living room, so it really does do a good job of perceived brightness/contrast.


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## Dominic Chan

ruggercb said:


> I found the vertical lens shift on my benq w1070 really degraded the image quality. It was a lot less bright. Maybe it's just the PJ, but I think I'd steer clear of lens shift if possible.


The lens shift, by itself, should not cause a noticeable decrease in brightness for non-directional screens. For directional screens such as the Cinegrey 5D, the decrease in brightness is most likely caused by the change in the reflection angles between the projector, screen and viewing position, not by the use of lens shift per se.


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## ben38

ruggercb said:


> I found the vertical lens shift on my benq w1070 really degraded the image quality. It was a lot less bright. Maybe it's just the PJ, but I think I'd steer clear of lens shift if possible.
> 
> This is a pretty good screen. I only notice the brightness roll off when it's running from my PC and there's a web page up, or the desktop or something. In motion I don't see it. Also, I NEVER watch it with all the lights off. There is always at least one light on in the living room, so it really does do a good job of perceived brightness/contrast.


 The w1070 wasn't really made for lens shifting. Even though it does have a minor amount of vertical shift, it's better not to use it. The w1070 is a budget projector with a budget lens. To be fair, even more expensive projectors have lenses that suffer a loss in quality when light is hitting the edges.


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## Clob

ben38 said:


> The w1070 wasn't really made for lens shifting. Even though it does have a minor amount of vertical shift, it's better not to use it. The w1070 is a budget projector with a budget lens. To be fair, even more expensive projectors have lenses that suffer a loss in quality when light is hitting the edges.



So.. Is the w1070 a good fit for the screen. My projection position is making a 96 inch picture on my wall, and when I measured it, it was 1.45X throw to size with no zoom. I have a w1070.


My room has light control issues. It's an apartment with big windows, a kitchen ect and this screen sounds like it's a fit, but I'm concerned that the throw isn't log enough on the Benq for the screen...


Thought?


EDIT:

The Benq has a 1.5 throw ratio as it is. So I'm guessing, by reading this thread that it just meets the 1.5 ratio for a decent result.


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## swargolet

Can anyone comment on how well these screens work as a main display in a living room?

I have been looking into projectors and screens for quite awhile now. I'm pretty set between two options. Keep the plasma for casual viewing and use an Elunevision 4k Tab Tensioned Screen that can come down in front of the plasma or ditch the plasma and use use the Cinegrey 5D for all viewing. From an aesthetics, cost, and ease of installation standpoint, I'd prefer to go with the Cinegrey. I'm just slightly worried about the picture quality, mainly the contrast as I'm used to the Plasma. 

I plan to purchase the Sony hw40es projector which will be mounted on a shelf above the couch. I can mount it at any reasonable height above the couch, so would probably mount it as low as possible on the wall and then find where to mount the screen to maintain the same incoming and outgoing angle. The room is somewhat light controlled from outside light so when the blinds are closed, no direct light comes through but the room is still slightly bright. The only two lights in the room are on a dimmer and I usually only keep one light on that is near the same wall as the screen. The walls are all white, but one side wall is too far away to cause reflections and the ceiling is angled so shouldn't cause issues. The other side wall is close by so I may decide to add curtains of some sort along the wall but would only do that if it causes issues.

Anyone have thoughts on this? Would I be disappointed with having only the projector and Cinegrey or do you think that the pros of it will outweigh the cons?


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## swargolet

I have decided that I want to pursue the Cinegrey path. Now I only have one concern and that is the hotspotting. It seems that any ambient light rejecting screen is prone to hotspotting especially when the throw distance is short and the screen is larger. My throw distance will be right around 12 feet and I am looking to get a 110" screen. Would this combination be prone to hot spotting?


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## ben38

swargolet said:


> I have decided that I want to pursue the Cinegrey path. Now I only have one concern and that is the hotspotting. It seems that any ambient light rejecting screen is prone to hotspotting especially when the throw distance is short and the screen is larger. My throw distance will be right around 12 feet and I am looking to get a 110" screen. Would this combination be prone to hot spotting?


Yes. You will get a hotspot. I would recommend a throw of about 15 feet or more.


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## swargolet

12 feet is the max throw I can do. Is there some ratio I should follow for this? If I did do 110" at 12 foot throw, how bad would the hotspot be?


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## ben38

swargolet said:


> 12 feet is the max throw I can do. Is there some ratio I should follow for this? If I did do 110" at 12 foot throw, how bad would the hotspot be?


 Most screen companies suggest a minimum of 1.5 times the screen width. In your case, a 16:9, 110 inch screen (96 inches wide) needs a minimum of 12 feet. 
In my personal experience with ALR screens, (a Cinegrey 5D, a DNP supernova, a Black Diamond, and 2 Firehawks) I've always found the minimum of 1.8 to 2.0 times the screen width a more realistic number to minimize the hotspot.(Minimize, not eliminate)
Now as to how bad would the hotspot be at 12 feet? I honestly don't know what you would consider bad or acceptable. Everyone's opinion is different in that regard.


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## swargolet

ben38 said:


> Most screen companies suggest a minimum of 1.5 times the screen width. In your case, a 16:9, 110 inch screen (96 inches wide) needs a minimum of 12 feet.
> In my personal experience with ALR screens, (a Cinegrey 5D, a DNP supernova, a Black Diamond, and 2 Firehawks) I've always found the minimum of 1.8 to 2.0 times the screen width a more realistic number to minimize the hotspot.(Minimize, not eliminate)
> Now as to how bad would the hotspot be at 12 feet? I honestly don't know what you would consider bad or acceptable. Everyone's opinion is different in that regard.


Thanks! Going to to 1.8 or 2.0 ratio would put me under a 90" screen which would be on the smaller side of what I'd want. I don't have the projector yet and plan to project onto the wall to figure out the best size, but I wanted to figure out my upper limit first.

As for what is acceptable for me. If the hotspot can only be seen by really looking for it or in a few scenes in a movie, then that would be OK for me. If it would be visible during the whole movie and be a distraction then that would be a problem.


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## chmpgntstebeerbdgt

swargolet said:


> Thanks! Going to to 1.8 or 2.0 ratio would put me under a 90" screen which would be on the smaller side of what I'd want. I don't have the projector yet and plan to project onto the wall to figure out the best size, but I wanted to figure out my upper limit first.
> 
> As for what is acceptable for me. If the hotspot can only be seen by really looking for it or in a few scenes in a movie, then that would be OK for me. If it would be visible during the whole movie and be a distraction then that would be a problem.


I am in the exact same situation. I am looking to buy both a projector and a screen and my room is 12x12 with 8' ceilings. So in theory my throw at the longest around 11' as the projector cannot be flush with the back wall. I was hoping to put in a screen that is 110" diagonally. I had read this entire thread focused on the Cinegray 5D and was all set to make the purchase but am now very concerned about the hotspots. With the BenQ the farthest throw for a 110" screen is 12' and so this projector is just not built it seems for one of these screens. I have around $1400 for the projector and screen, so would anyone have any suggestions for a better projector or screen combination? I used to have the Optoma HD131Xe and projected it onto a cream wall and it was ok but I wanted something better. I am now assuming my mostly white walls and ceilings, and my small room are going to put a huge dent in my PQ. I am still hoping to use this room for a while until we can finish our basement and that is why I do not want to buy too small of a screen, Either way I will have ambient light as my wife does not enjoy dark paint and I have windows in the basement (was hoping this screen was the cure all). Hopefully there is something that can be done with this hotspot issue!


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## swargolet

I still haven't purchased anything as the Sony projector I'm looking at doesn't want to go on sale. I am still planning to get the Cinegrey 5d though even with the potential hot spotting, but I will most likely get a 106" instead of 110". 

I have done quite a bit of research and I haven't found any other screen that would be suitable for me. Since you are planning to move the screen into a dedicated room in the near future, I feel you'd be better off going with a larger white screen and then finding a good way to block the light. I saw a thread somewhere on here where I guy installed curtain tracks around the room and could essentially enclose his rooms in curtains when he brought up a movie. This may be an option for you. I was thinking about doing this with the one wall that would be closest to my screen.

I think your ceiling will be the biggest issue though. I don't have that issue since my ceiling is angled up and I wouldn't get reflections, but I've seen plenty of instances where people got awful reflections from the ceiling that ruined their image.


----------



## christoffeldg

Hey guys, anyone know where to get one of these screens in Europe? The Elite website doesn't help me much.


----------



## cambaba

*Cinegrey 3d vs 5d*

Has anyone done a side by side between the Cinegrey 3d and Cinegray 5d? Is the performance similar or noticeably different? They have different reported on-axis gain figures (1.2x vs 1.5x). But that's about the only difference I can spot.

I've also heard rumors that the Cinegrey 5d is just the new name for the same Cinegrey 3d product. Any truth to that?

I am very interested in the Aeon edge-free screen they offer but apparently it only comes in the Cinegrey 3d material for ambient light rejection. (will be in stock in the coming weeks).


----------



## Swolephile

Have any of you seen a Black Diamond screen compared to a Cinegrey 5D screen? Can you tell me how they compare?


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## Swolephile

Trying to get any info on a Elite Screens product from a buyer or the company itself is more painful than pulling teeth.


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## Invision Home Theatre

Swolephile said:


> Trying to get any info on a Elite Screens product from a buyer or the company itself is more painful than pulling teeth.


Hey, I can't comment on dealing with Elite Screens directly as I am in Australia and their branch over here are great. Also can't compare between the Black Diamond, but the below photo was taken during the day with a little bit of ambient lighting, using an Epson TW9200 which is think is a 5030 for US. I couldn't see any noticeable hot spot, nor was there a dull angle to view from. We were quite happy with the image, and usually pair the TW9200 with the Cinegray 5D screen, the resulting blacks are amazing for this projector and picture is quite natural. 

I can try to answer some questions but I have only experience with Cinegray and Epson as we use other screens for other pjs.


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## Dominic Chan

Invision Home Theatre said:


> I couldn't see any noticeable hot spot, nor was there a dull angle to view from. We were quite happy with the image, and usually pair the TW9200 with the Cinegray 5D screen, the resulting blacks are amazing for this projector and picture is quite natural.


If you could run some simple tests similar to this it would be really helpful:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/1499693-silver-ticket-screen-11.html#post35643914

It only involves 2 sheets of plain white paper, one placed where the screen is brightest (near the centre of the screen, if everything is set up properly), and one near the corner.
Then take two pictures:
1. With the projector projecting a white image. This will show how the brightness varies across the screen, compared with the white paper.
2. With ambient light only. This will show how effective the light rejection is, again relative to the white paper.

Thanks.


----------



## Invision Home Theatre

Dominic Chan said:


> If you could run some simple tests similar to this it would be really helpful:
> 
> 
> It only involves 2 sheets of plain white paper, one placed where the screen is brightest (near the centre of the screen, if everything is set up properly), and one near the corner.
> Then take two pictures:
> 1. With the projector projecting a white image. This will show how the brightness varies across the screen, compared with the white paper.
> 2. With ambient light only. This will show how effective the light rejection is, again relative to the white paper.
> 
> Thanks.


When i head back there next week to setup the remote I will do this. am interested myself now..


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## Swolephile

Invision Home Theatre said:


> Hey, I can't comment on dealing with Elite Screens directly as I am in Australia and their branch over here are great. Also can't compare between the Black Diamond, but the below photo was taken during the day with a little bit of ambient lighting, using an Epson TW9200 which is think is a 5030 for US. I couldn't see any noticeable hot spot, nor was there a dull angle to view from. We were quite happy with the image, and usually pair the TW9200 with the Cinegray 5D screen, the resulting blacks are amazing for this projector and picture is quite natural.
> 
> I can try to answer some questions but I have only experience with Cinegray and Epson as we use other screens for other pjs.


Wow that looks great! I'm currently using a Epson HC-3500 right now which is a light cannon along with a Black Diamond 1.4 screen. If I get a Aeon screen with Cinegrey 3d, I'm thinking about pairing it with a Epson HC-1440 which could be a portable quasar if it lives up to it's specs.

I'm wondering how the Cinegrey 3d compares to the Cinegrey 5d?


----------



## Stuntman_Mike

Swolephile said:


> Wow that looks great! I'm currently using a Epson HC-3500 right now which is a light cannon along with a Black Diamond 1.4 screen. If I get a Aeon screen with Cinegrey 3d, I'm thinking about pairing it with a Epson HC-1440 which could be a portable quasar if it lives up to it's specs.
> 
> I'm wondering how the Cinegrey 3d compares to the Cinegrey 5d?


Just a guess, but based on the gain it's probably just the 3D doing most things a little less.

Little less bright. Little less likely to hotspot. Little less likely to sparkle. Probably a slightly darker material so might have better contrast.

Again, just a guess, but it's probably along the lines of the Black Diamond 1.4 and 0.8 material differences, but to a lesser degree.


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## rg7852

Sup guys
I'm a young fellow newbie who just bought an epson 5030ub projector and a elite cinegrey 5d 120in screen. I just need some help with a problem im having. Ive seen the youtube videos posted by ruben rodriguez and some of the pics people have posted in the forum, all seem to have a great bright picture. I think i might be having an issue with angular reflectivity, the only issue i have is brightness, the contrast looks fine, picture seems clear, no hot spot, but that pop in brightness just isn't there, even when its in living room mode. Of course it still looks pretty darn good when i have a little ambient light, definitely watchable. But when all lights are off that pop in brightness is somewhat hard to get, i have it in living room mode as well. I dont know, maybe I had my hopes up too much or im just being picky lol 

Screen is in my living room, i have all white walls and i have total light control,(every light fixture i can dim down)
I have dark curtains, theres really nothing out of the ordinary in my liv room

Ceiling height is 9ft high
PJ is on a peerless mount with lens 4.5 in from ceiling
My PJ lens is perpendicular to wall, so there is no angle from the lens to screen
PJ lens is 17ft from screen(saw recommendation for 1.5x throw)

My screen is mounted 13 inches from ceiling(from ceiling to frame), this is the highest i can go, the builder created a box type inclosure at the top instead of a flat wall, not sure why, i guess some people like it.

My seating is 15.5 ft from screen

Now, should i buy a column to bring the PJ down? i wonder if that might help, i saw someone had wrote its better to have the pj right below the top of the screen so you dont have to use vertical lens shift.

Was also thinking of moving the pj just a little closer, but then that might produce a hot spot from what ive read.

It seems like these screens are pretty darn tricky lol, some pretty complicated stuff for a newbie like myself lol


----------



## elbie123

rg7852 said:


> Sup guys
> I'm a young fellow newbie who just bought an epson 5030ub projector and a elite cinegrey 5d 120in screen. I just need some help with a problem im having. Ive seen the youtube videos posted by ruben rodriguez and some of the pics people have posted in the forum, all seem to have a great bright picture. I think i might be having an issue with angular reflectivity, the only issue i have is brightness, the contrast looks fine, picture seems clear, no hot spot, but that pop in brightness just isn't there, even when its in living room mode. Of course it still looks pretty darn good when i have a little ambient light, definitely watchable. But when all lights are off that pop in brightness is somewhat hard to get, i have it in living room mode as well. I dont know, maybe I had my hopes up too much or im just being picky lol
> 
> Screen is in my living room, i have all white walls and i have total light control,(every light fixture i can dim down)
> I have dark curtains, theres really nothing out of the ordinary in my liv room
> 
> Ceiling height is 9ft high
> PJ is on a peerless mount with lens 4.5 in from ceiling
> My PJ lens is perpendicular to wall, so there is no angle from the lens to screen
> PJ lens is 17ft from screen(saw recommendation for 1.5x throw)
> 
> My screen is mounted 13 inches from ceiling(from ceiling to frame), this is the highest i can go, the builder created a box type inclosure at the top instead of a flat wall, not sure why, i guess some people like it.
> 
> My seating is 15.5 ft from screen
> 
> Now, should i buy a column to bring the PJ down? i wonder if that might help, i saw someone had wrote its better to have the pj right below the top of the screen so you dont have to use vertical lens shift.
> 
> Was also thinking of moving the pj just a little closer, but then that might produce a hot spot from what ive read.
> 
> It seems like these screens are pretty darn tricky lol, some pretty complicated stuff for a newbie like myself lol




Your issue is that your projector lens is perpendicular to the screen. The angle of projection is extremely important for Ambient Light Rejecting (ALR) screens, and any angle that goes beyond the range will result in a dark image due to the angular reflective properties. Basically, from your seating position, your screen is rejecting the projector light. 

To correctly position your seating arrangements and projector position, you must do the following: 
1) Your eye level should be 1/3 the height (the lower third) of the screen.
2) The projection angle from projector to screen is optimal at less than 45 degrees. 
3) The angle of projection must be equal to angle of seating position (at the eye level since that is where you want the light going). So if your projection angle from projector to screen is 20 degrees, then you want the viewing angle from screen to viewer's eyes to be 20 degrees as well. This is optimal and will get you that punchy brightness that you are looking for. 

Check out the attachment. The picture should be very helpful. 


Hope you get it all squared out!


----------



## elbie123

As a test, play something from your projector and watch the screen with your head directly underneath the projector lens. If you are getting a much brighter picture, then the issue is definitely projection & vertical viewing angle.


----------



## Dominic Chan

elbie123 said:


> As a test, play something from your projector and watch the screen with your head directly underneath the projector lens. If you are getting a much brighter picture, then the issue is definitely projection & vertical viewing angle.


You can also use a few sheets of white paper as "reference" to see how the screen brightness varies with the position:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/23-screens/1499693-silver-ticket-screen-11.html#post35643914


----------



## rg7852

Awesome thanks guys,

I'm going to try this when I get home, but I just want to make sure I understand.

With these ALR screens, instead of having the projector lens perpendicular to the wall it's facing, it's actually ok to adjust the angle of the projector towards the screen. Am I correct?, just making sure because I thought that would have the trapezoid effect. Even if it does I'm sure it won't be unwatachable, but I'm going to definitely try this with a few sheets of white paper.

I guess if this doesn't help much, since my projector is around 12 inches higher than my screen(because I have 9ft ceilings and screen is high as it can go bc of a box type enclosure builder made) should I try bringing the whole projector down to screen height? Or would that be a waste of time?


----------



## Dominic Chan

rg7852 said:


> With these ALR screens, instead of having the projector lens perpendicular to the wall it's facing, it's actually ok to adjust the angle of the projector towards the screen. Am I correct?


No, when you change the position of the projector, you need to keep it perpendicular to the wall, for the reason you mentioned. You will need to use lens shift to centre the projected image on the screen.



> should I try bringing the whole projector down to screen height?


Only if the screen is of the "retro reflective" type. With "angular reflective" type, the projector can be placed above the screen height; the objective is to have same angle from the projector to the screen, as from the screen to the viewer's eye level.


----------



## rg7852

I think the elite cinegrey 5d is the angular reflective type, but not for certain. Don't think it said in elite screens website.

So when you say adjust the position of the projector, you mean adjust the height?, just trying to make sure I know how to adjust the angle sorry guys. Just not sure how else to adjust the angle, the screen bottom 1/3 is at eye level so that's good, my seating is at 15 ft, maybe I can play with seating?, right now the projector is 12 inches above screen and I'm using lens shift to bring the picture down, to adjust the angle from the projector to screen wouldn't I have to adjust projector height?


----------



## Dominic Chan

rg7852 said:


> right now the projector is 12 inches above screen and I'm using lens shift to bring the picture down, to adjust the angle from the projector to screen wouldn't I have to adjust projector height?


Yes, in this context adjusting the (vertical) angle means adjusting the height of the projector / screen / viewing position.


----------



## rg7852

Once again thanks,

I'll try playing with the projector height first and maybe the seating as well. I'll just make sure I buy an adjustable column that's long enough, thanks


----------



## Dominic Chan

rg7852 said:


> Once again thanks,
> 
> I'll try playing with the projector height first and maybe the seating as well. I'll just make sure I buy an adjustable column that's long enough, thanks


Since the angles are all "relative", it's much easier to just vary your viewing height to find the brightest position. Once found, then you can buy an adjustable column, if indeed lowering the projector height helps. The "paper test" I mentioned previously can make the comparison easier by acting as a frame of reference.


----------



## quamosa

This screen is angular reflective.
http://www.elitescreens.com/index.php/products/ambient-light-rejecting-screens/1940-elite-ezframe-5d

That is one of the reasons I chose it as I have my projector mounted above the top of the screen. I can also tell its angular because I can see the screen get slightly brighter and more uniform when I stoop down to sit from a standing position.


----------



## rg7852

Thanks,

What is your seating distance, screen and projector height, and projector throw distance?


----------



## elbie123

rg7852 said:


> I think the elite cinegrey 5d is the angular reflective type, but not for certain. Don't think it said in elite screens website.
> 
> So when you say adjust the position of the projector, you mean adjust the height?, just trying to make sure I know how to adjust the angle sorry guys. Just not sure how else to adjust the angle, the screen bottom 1/3 is at eye level so that's good, my seating is at 15 ft, maybe I can play with seating?, right now the projector is 12 inches above screen and I'm using lens shift to bring the picture down, to adjust the angle from the projector to screen wouldn't I have to adjust projector height?


Hi rg7852, 

I did some quick calculations based on the numbers you listed. Your seating, screen placement, and projector throw distance are close enough to ideal, but your projector placement is way off. According to the numbers I generated, you should be viewing from a height of 14" from the floor at a 17' viewing distance. I could be wrong since I just ran through these quickly, but I'm fairly positive your projector placement is off. I'll run the numbers again when I get home and check for mistakes. 

But one thing that does not make sense to me is the projector being perpendicular to the screen (ie: Having no projection angle). You do realize that this means you are projecting at the exact center of the height of the screen, right? If your projector lens is 4.5" away from the ceiling, then you are projecting at an angle. And my guess is that it is too much. You should bring it down and adjust the zoom if you can to bring the screen closer to the screen. I'll get you some actual numbers to experiement with later. 

-LB


----------



## elbie123

elbie123 said:


> Hi rg7852,
> 
> I did some quick calculations based on the numbers you listed. Your seating, screen placement, and projector throw distance are close enough to ideal, but your projector placement is way off. According to the numbers I generated, you should be viewing from a height of 14" from the floor at a 17' viewing distance. I could be wrong since I just ran through these quickly, but I'm fairly positive your projector placement is off. I'll run the numbers again when I get home and check for mistakes.
> 
> But one thing that does not make sense to me is the projector being perpendicular to the screen (ie: Having no projection angle). You do realize that this means you are projecting at the exact center of the height of the screen, right? If your projector lens is 4.5" away from the ceiling, then you are projecting at an angle. And my guess is that it is too much. *You should adjust the zoom, bring the projector lower and closer to the screen. I am 99.5% positive that you'll get a much better picture. I'll get you some actual numbers to experiement with later. *
> 
> -LB


Sorry, edited some typos.


----------



## swargolet

I forgot to write a quick update about my situation from the previous page and since I hate it when I don't see updates from people, I figured I should give one quick. 

I did quite a bit of research into different ALR screens and was pretty much set on the Cinegrey 5d, but after talking with a dealer where I purchased my Sony projector from, I decided to try out samples from Seymour. After comparing 4 different ALR materials from Seymour, I ended up purchasing a 110" Seymour Ambient Visionaire 1.3. Even with a short throw distance os 12 feet, I don't see any hot spotting at all. I do get a little bit of sparkles on bright scenes, but not a huge amount. I am quite happy with the purchase but it was a SUBSTANTIAL jump in price to go from the Cinegrey to the Seymour screen.

I've already had multiple people comment on how good the screen looks even with with the room being all white and lights on. It really is impressive what these ALR screens can do!


----------



## strawberry

Here's my preliminary review:

I recently ordered a 120" Starling Tab Tension version of the material and installed it last week. Unfortunately, when I lowered the screen for the first time I discovered that something had punctured through several layers of the fabric while it was still on the roller, creating a vertical series of small holes about a third of the way in from the left edge of the screen. I'm currently going through the RMA process to get a new one in. I figured since it was installed, I'd go ahead and put the thing through its paces, though.

First, a few thoughts about the Starling case and craftsmanship of the overall package. The case is minimalist and hides well enough in the room (as well as anything 11 feet long can). As compared to my previous DaLite Model C with HP 2.8 material, I would say that the case is considerably less beefy and less rugged. The same goes for the material. The HP material was very thick and sturdy, the Cinegrey 5D is basically a thin sheet of rubber. The DaLite had a woven black fabric masking/drop material, whereas the Cinegrey 5D just has black rubber. As an overall package, the Starling seems much more delicate and will need to be treated thusly. It is a budget option, after all. Putting all that aside, the motor is fairly quiet and smooth and I still think the package overall is a good value proposition.

As for the material itself: it does about what you'd hope/expect. I've also owned a Black Diamond 1.4 gain screen and used it as my primary screen for a couple of years. In terms of optical performance, the Cinegrey 5D material is roughly comparable to the BD 1.4 in a lot of ways. To compare the two directly, I'd say that the Cinegrey 5D is a little less prone to some of the drawbacks of the BD 1.4 (hotspotting is less apparent, sparklies/sheen is not as noticeable, viewing cone seems a bit more forgiving) but the BD has more real-world gain (I didn't measure, but my guess is that the Cinegrey 5D is closer to unity than the rated 1.5) and the BD does a bit better of a job of rejecting ambient light, especially from the sides. Of course, one thing plays into the other. The narrower cone and more noticeable texture/sheen of the BD are precisely the reason it does better at rejecting off-axis light and has more real-world gain. All-in-all, the Cinegrey 5D holds up admirably and shares many of the same attributes. If you're looking at the Cinegrey 5D as a budget-minded alternative to the BD materials, I'd say that's a pretty accurate description of what it is. There is also a strong color shift to the BD material (towards blue) which doesn't seem to be an issue with the Cinegrey 5D, at least to the naked eye.

I've seen mention of horizontal bands in the material on this forum, so I wanted to address that as well. I definitely noticed them on the model I received. My guess would be that because the material is so thin, these are actually impressions left by the roller bar itself as the bands seem to be regularly spaced and become more pronounced the closer you get to the top of the screen. They are definitely noticeable at times, especially in higher APL scenes. I wouldn't call them a deal breaker, but I could see how others might. I'm not expecting anything different with regard to the replacement as far as this issue is concerned and I'm prepared to accept it as a minor drawback in an otherwise strong value proposition.

I'll report back if I see anything notably different in my replacement screen (other than hopefully being free from punctures!) and will be happy to field any questions in the interim.


----------



## quamosa

rg7852 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> What is your seating distance, screen and projector height, and projector throw distance?


Rough estimates here but very close.. seating distance for row 1 is 11'
row 2 is 17'
row 3 is 20'
Center of projector lens is 5" from ceiling
Screen top is 13" from ceiling
Projector throw is 18'

The screen works very well for me under these specs.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## rg7852

Thanks elbie123

My projector lens is parallel to the wall where the screen is mounted, I am not pointing it downward towards the screen, I was told not to do this because it could create a trapezoid effect on the picture.

Thank you for your calculations, from what your telling me it looks like my angle is way too much, meaning bringing the projector down could narrow down that angle, it's from my understanding that these ALR screens do better with the projector at screen height or below, according to my specs of course


----------



## elbie123

rg7852 said:


> Thanks elbie123
> 
> My projector lens is parallel to the wall where the screen is mounted, I am not pointing it downward towards the screen, I was told not to do this because it could create a trapezoid effect on the picture.
> 
> Thank you for your calculations, from what your telling me it looks like my angle is way too much, meaning bringing the projector down could narrow down that angle, it's from my understanding that these ALR screens do better with the projector at screen height or below, according to my specs of course


Woops, I totally forgot about this thread. I'm not too active on the forums and maybe check it once a week or so. 

Your projector has lens shift (as opposed to keystone adjustment), but either lens shift or keystone will prevent the trapezoid effect. You shouldn't feel so limited in positioning your projector due to the "Trapezoid effect" because you likely won't encounter it unless you are projecting from wildly aggressive angles. 

Have you tried messing around with the positioning? Results? 

Keep us posted, and I hope you find that perfect picture. I've seen this screen in person, and you have an excellent projector, so you should be able to achieve a really amazing picture.


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## Dr. BeSt

strawberry said:


> Unfortunately, when I lowered the screen for the first time I discovered that something had punctured through several layers of the fabric while it was still on the roller, creating a vertical series of small holes about a third of the way in from the left edge of the screen.


Initially I had similar issues with my 120" CineGray5D screen, but after giving it a long, gentle massage with a soft microfiber cloth, it got almost invisible.



strawberry said:


> (I didn't measure, but my guess is that the Cinegrey 5D is closer to unity than the rated 1.5)


Yep, your subjective impression is supported by this report which determined an actual gain of 1.0 for the CineGray 5D.

BR
Dr. BeSt


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## Phony_engineer

I've been reading this thread with anticipation of perhaps upgrading my 110" fixed frame screen which is currently a Vutec with britewhite (see review http://www.projectorcentral.com/vutec_screens.htm) to an ALR screen such as the Elite 5D. I have a Sony HW50ES at about 11.5 ft throw distance just above the top edge of the screen in a fully light controlled dedicated home theater.
Just received a sample of the 5D material (ordered from Amazon for about $6 delivered in no time). 
Comparing the brightness, it appears that the Vutec bright white is 'brighter' than the 5D material when held up against the Vutec. I haven't used tape yet to see if the 5D is any better when sitting down at normal viewing distance. I also haven't check contrast levels yet, but I tempted to just pass on the screen upgrade for now.
In any case, I definitely agree with what others have said about the screen gain is lower than advertised and certainly lower than the Vutec which has an advertised gain of 1.5 as well.


Paul


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## mercuryyy

@Phony_engineer why would you even consider the 5D if you have a fully controlled lighting dedicated home theater room ?


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## quamosa

My room is light controlled as well but I got the screen because I wanted the option to use it with some lights on.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Phony_engineer

Main reason was to see if I could get higher gain in practice. However, advertised gain specs by the various companies is really a crap shoot. As I mentioned in my original post, projectorcentral did review my existing screen and only measured about unity gain. In any case, I'll hold off on upgrading the screen since I'm on the JVC RS600 preorder.


Paul


----------



## lifeisbeautiful

*Cinegrey vs Cinegrey 3D vs Cinegrey 5D*

Sorry, if this has been discussed already before. Trying to understand the difference between Cingrey vs Cinegrey3D vs Cinegrey5D.
This is for a room which has very poor light control. Apparently, it looks like Elite pulled the plug on the current Cinegrey3D material and the new one might not be available before February.
So, for my conditions, want to check if either Cinegrey or the 5D would be a fit.


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## razevents

Read all 12 pages. Looking at the zero edge Aeon design with the 5D material. A new 1.4 BD is really pretty impressive, but if I can't find one at a reasonable price, I will most likely be going to the Elite 5D. I can control light in the room, however looking for a low light level for watching daytime sports or HDTV material or for some 3D game or movie material. For movies I can go all dark day or night. Room has a white drop ceiling and only 6.5-7 feet high in finished basement, so although outdoor light is controlled there are some less than optimum dedicated HT aspects of the space, as this is a compromise with the wife. So question is, for those running this material, my ideal screen is a BD 1.4 however, how close will this get me to that end product? Running a Panny 8000 from 12-13' throw, 12-14' seating distance, and looking to go 120" HD surface. 

Feedback and thoughts to my questions and proposed install?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Swolephile

razevents said:


> Read all 12 pages. Looking at the zero edge Aeon design with the 5D material. A new 1.4 BD is really pretty impressive, but if I can't find one at a reasonable price, I will most likely be going to the Elite 5D. I can control light in the room, however looking for a low light level for watching daytime sports or HDTV material or for some 3D game or movie material. For movies I can go all dark day or night. Room has a white drop ceiling and only 6.5-7 feet high in finished basement, so although outdoor light is controlled there are some less than optimum dedicated HT aspects of the space, as this is a compromise with the wife. So question is, for those running this material, my ideal screen is a BD 1.4 however, how close will this get me to that end product? Running a Panny 8000 from 12-13' throw, 12-14' seating distance, and looking to go 120" HD surface.
> 
> Feedback and thoughts to my questions and proposed install?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've owned both. The Cinegrey 5d does not have the contrast boost that the Black Diamond 1.4 offers. Overall image quality looked sharper with the Black Diamond 1.4 in my opinion. The Cinegrey 3D Aeon does have less screen artifacts resultimg in better screen uniformity, less color shift for a more color accurate picture, wider viewing cone, and better off axis viewing.

The Black Diamond 1.4 will retain Black levels better under higher levels of ambient light. There is a sizable gap in build quality between SI Screens fixed frame/zero edge frames and Elite Screens's ultra cheap frames with bad build quality.


----------



## razevents

Swolephile said:


> I've owned both. The Cinegrey 5d does not have the contrast boost that the Black Diamond 1.4 offers. Overall image quality looked sharper with the Black Diamond 1.4 in my opinion. The Cinegrey 3D Aeon does have less screen artifacts resultimg in better screen uniformity, less color shift for a more color accurate picture, wider viewing cone, and better off axis viewing.
> 
> 
> 
> The Black Diamond 1.4 will retain Black levels better under higher levels of ambient light. There is a sizable gap in build quality between SI Screens fixed frame/zero edge frames and Elite Screens's ultra cheap frames with bad build quality.



That was exactly the info I was looking for. In this case it seems the saying, you get what you pay for applies. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wolfslayer

if anyone has an elite 120" frame and is looking to upgrade to cinegrey 5d I have an extra material for sale in Canada.


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## Matts4313

wolfslayer said:


> if anyone has an elite 120" frame and is looking to upgrade to cinegrey 5d I have an extra material for sale in Canada.



How much with shipping to Austin TX? What are the dimensions?


----------



## wolfslayer

Matts4313 said:


> How much with shipping to Austin TX? What are the dimensions?


Shipping dimensions are 7x7x65. I just want to be clear that this is a brand new sealed 120" cinegrey 5d screen material only (no frame) ZR120DHD5.

It would be $410 U.S shipped


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## Matts4313

wolfslayer said:


> Shipping dimensions are 7x7x65. I just want to be clear that this is a brand new sealed 120" cinegrey 5d screen material only (no frame) ZR120DHD5.
> 
> It would be $410 U.S shipped


Hmm.. I must be confused about something. What is the difference between what you are offering and this (besides this is a little bigger):

http://www.elitescreenshop.com/Elite-Screens-CineGrey-5D-Screen-Material-p/zrm-135hw-cinegrey5d.htm


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## wolfslayer

It would be this but in the 120" size. 

http://shop.elitescreens.com/ezFrameCineGrey5D-1.aspx


----------



## Dhrakken

Good morning everyone,


I've been browsing these forums for a few weeks now and garnered a lot of useful information so thank you all for that.


I'm getting a Viewsonic PJD7828HDL (won it at work) and while I don't have it yet, I've done all the room calculations, etc... to determine best screen size. What I'm not sure about is which screen material to get, I keep going back and forth between the Cinewhite and the Cinegrey5D screens. My room can be pretty bright during the day but I intend on getting some blackout pull down shades for the one window in the room so lighting shouldn't be much of an issue. Unfortunately the walls and ceiling are white.


The screen will be 110" diagonal, the projector will be 12' away and seating will be about 12'-13'. I intend on using this for pretty much all my TV viewing and 2D/3D movies/gaming at any time of day.


I've already built a wooden frame (along with led lights in the back). 


Any advice on which screen to get? Does anyone have any experience with this projector?


I'd include an image of the frame currently mounted where the screen will be but I can't do so until I'm over 5 posts apparently!


----------



## LondonBenji

Dhrakken said:


> Good morning everyone,
> 
> 
> I've been browsing these forums for a few weeks now and garnered a lot of useful information so thank you all for that.
> 
> 
> I'm getting a Viewsonic PJD7828HDL (won it at work) and while I don't have it yet, I've done all the room calculations, etc... to determine best screen size. What I'm not sure about is which screen material to get, I keep going back and forth between the Cinewhite and the Cinegrey5D screens. My room can be pretty bright during the day but I intend on getting some blackout pull down shades for the one window in the room so lighting shouldn't be much of an issue. Unfortunately the walls and ceiling are white.
> 
> 
> The screen will be 110" diagonal, the projector will be 12' away and seating will be about 12'-13'. I intend on using this for pretty much all my TV viewing and 2D/3D movies/gaming at any time of day.
> 
> 
> I've already built a wooden frame (along with led lights in the back).
> 
> 
> Any advice on which screen to get? Does anyone have any experience with this projector?
> 
> 
> I'd include an image of the frame currently mounted where the screen will be but I can't do so until I'm over 5 posts apparently!


I was originally looking to get Carl's ALR screen material however, with a lack of reviews whereas the 5D is somewhat proven and having now found it on Amazon at a very reasonable price (http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-Designer-135-inch-ZRM-135H-CINEGREY5D/dp/B00XBZFKPG) I'm now considering switching to the 5D after reading through various threads myself.

I'm very on the fence between Carl's ALR and the 5D.


----------



## mykebr

LondonBenji said:


> I was originally looking to get Carl's ALR screen material however, with a lack of reviews whereas the 5D is somewhat proven and having now found it on Amazon at a very reasonable price (http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-Designer-135-inch-ZRM-135H-CINEGREY5D/dp/B00XBZFKPG) I'm now considering switching to the 5D after reading through various threads myself.
> 
> I'm very on the fence between Carl's ALR and the 5D.


Did you order the 5D?

I am thinking either the 3D or 5D. Can't find much information on what the difference is between the two except the gain. And can't really find comparison between the two screens.


----------



## birdman3

wolfslayer said:


> It would be this but in the 120" size.
> 
> http://shop.elitescreens.com/ezFrameCineGrey5D-1.aspx


Thanks


----------



## raoul

Anyone compared this material to the SI Slate .8 material? I pinged SI and they recommended the Slate material to me. Not keen to spend 5k on a screen tho...


----------



## TH3_FRB

Gain and viewing angle - 1.2 and 90deg for the 3D, 1.5 and 80deg for the 5D




mykebr said:


> Did you order the 5D?
> 
> I am thinking either the 3D or 5D. Can't find much information on what the difference is between the two except the gain. And can't really find comparison between the two screens.


----------



## aerodynamics

TH3_FRB said:


> Gain and viewing angle - 1.2 and 90deg for the 3D, 1.5 and 80deg for the 5D


This seems about right to me. I've played with material samples of both along with the Carl's ALR. The Carl's and Cinegrey 3D are nearly identical. If the 3d is 1.2 gain then I would say Carl's is 1.3. Carl's has the smoothest texture of all three. The 5d obviously is the brightest and exhibits the worst hotspotting. Despite I do like the 5d image the most. It looks the closest to a flat panel TV. The 3D has the best blacks - if you are using a high lumen PJ it might work for you.


----------



## mykebr

TH3_FRB said:


> Gain and viewing angle - 1.2 and 90deg for the 3D, 1.5 and 80deg for the 5D





aerodynamics said:


> This seems about right to me. I've played with material samples of both along with the Carl's ALR. The Carl's and Cinegrey 3D are nearly identical. If the 3d is 1.2 gain then I would say Carl's is 1.3. Carl's has the smoothest texture of all three. The 5d obviously is the brightest and exhibits the worst hotspotting. Despite I do like the 5d image the most. It looks the closest to a flat panel TV. The 3D has the best blacks - if you are using a high lumen PJ it might work for you.


Hey guys thank you very much.
I am planning on buying EPSON 2045 3LCD 2200 LUMENS since you said the 3D has the best blacks I think I'll go with it since I am using it in a multi-room sounds like my best option.


----------



## LondonBenji

mykebr said:


> Did you order the 5D?
> 
> I am thinking either the 3D or 5D. Can't find much information on what the difference is between the two except the gain. And can't really find comparison between the two screens.


I ended up getting the Carl's ALR due to availability of the 5D but if what @aerodynamics is saying is true, I wish I had gotten the 5D.... 

I haven't got the Carl's up yet, been a nightmare to find poplar >8ft in length.


----------



## TH3_FRB

Home Depot and Lowes both carry poplar. Otherwise go with oak - more expensive but an even better choice in terms of hardness and holding true.



LondonBenji said:


> I haven't got the Carl's up yet, been a nightmare to find poplar >8ft in length.


----------



## LondonBenji

TH3_FRB said:


> Home Depot and Lowes both carry poplar. Otherwise go with oak - more expensive but an even better choice in terms of hardness and holding true.


None of the Home Depots around me have any lengths greater than 8ft, haven't given Lowes a proper go yet though.


----------



## aerodynamics

Also, the 3D has a distinct warm tone that the 5D doesn't have. Very noticeable when comparing the two. I think that is part of the ISF certification.


----------



## Vaan Janne

which of the 3 have less sparkles ? 3d/5D or carl´s ?
Which has the best extinction in polarized 3d ?


----------



## aerodynamics

Cinegrey 3D and Carl's show virtually no sparkling. Carl's material has a smoother texture though. When compared with the other two the 5D shows the most sparkling but it's minimal and when viewed by itself you really don't notice it.


----------



## Vaan Janne

aerodynamics said:


> Cinegrey 3D and Carl's show virtually no sparkling. Carl's material has a smoother texture though. When compared with the other two the 5D shows the most sparkling but it's minimal and when viewed by itself you really don't notice it.


How about crosstalk in 3d, atleast card´s does not seem to have preticulary good extinction values. Has anyone tried polarized 3d on neither one ?


----------



## aerodynamics

Vaan Janne said:


> How about crosstalk in 3d, atleast card´s does not seem to have preticulary good extinction values. Has anyone tried polarized 3d on neither one ?


Haven't tried 3d so I can't comment on that.


----------



## Vaan Janne

Does any of you have any samples of the carl´s ALR? its too expensive for me to order the sample from carl´s as the postal fees are ridicilous.

Is there hot spotting on carl´s ALR ?


----------



## lecter84

gotmilk516 said:


> A few emails back and forth and a Pic and Elite sending me new material . I was expecting to have to battle with them but NO , there like we see the issue and fill out this warranty claim for and will send you new material : )


Hello, I am new to this forum, so I am not allowed to send PMs.
Could please anyone reading this, noticing the user gotmilk about my questions?

@GOTmilk

First of all, the screen on the photos you provided in this thread really look awesome.
Do you still like the screen?
Have you you run into issues like hotspotting, even in optimal seating position?

My scenario is as follows:
I have currently an ezframe 110" with cinewhite material installed in my bright colored living room.
Seating distance seems similar as in your case. (sofa is on the one wall, screen on the other).
Both walls are at about 14.33 feet (4.3 metres) distance. My projector is located above my head (mounted at ceiling) and my throw ratio is at about 1.45 or something. Most likely I will swap my PJ at christmas and get a throw ratio of about 1.55.

I am noticing on your photos that your PJ is located at a rather low level compared to the upper edge of the screen. Is this intended for some reason?
In my my current case, my projector is a bit higher located than the upper screen frame edge. Do you think this might cause problems?

Could you please tell me your room width (as I am seeing your PJ is "located in the wall" this should be the distance PJ Screen) and/or the resulting throw ratio?

This would be a big help for me to find a decision for or against a cinegrey 5D material.

Many thanks in advance!


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## zaino

ben38 said:


> After fielding a lot of questions about the amount of light drop-off for ambient light rejecting screens, I decided to shoot a video showing the light Drop-off of my Cinegrey 5D screen. I think this video will clearly show the downside of a specialty screen vs. a white screen.
> Incidentally, although i never had a chance to shoot video, I have done this test on other ambient light rejecting screens. Specifically, the DNP Supernova core with 23-23 material, the Stewart Firehawk G3, and the Black Diamond 1.4. Of all these screens, the worst performing by far was the Black Diamond. The other 3 screens (including the 5D) all performed about the same.
> Hope you guys find this of interest.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBPJPJag1SE


Thanks Ben for all the great info! The last video really shows that this light dropoff will cause the sides of the image to be darker (hotspotting). Which is exactly what I'm experiencing.
I have some questions though.
For example take the last video.
1) if you moved the projector further back while keeping the same image size, would the hotspotting be reduced?
2) if you leave the projector at the same throw distance but move the viewer further back, would that help?
3) would moving the projector to the side and using lens shift help?

I have the projector at exactly 1.5x the screen width, and unfortunately can't move the projector or the viewer any further back, I'm wondering if moving the projector up/down or left/right would do any good.
Currently the projector is on a high shelf, around 7 feet tall.

Thanks in advance for the help!


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## NukeDuck

Im thinking about pulling the trigger on the 120" electric cinegrey 5d. Would a projector under 2k lumens be bright enough to support this screen?


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## DonRSD

I have a 9 month old 110" 5d screen.
Going to order a black diamond 1.4 within the next week.
Will most likely sell the 5d, if anyone is interested.

As for the screen - it does the job. 1st screen I've ever had & paired it with an Epson 5030.....and not an Epson 5040.
Only reason for the upgrade is I crave better blacks & contrast.


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## jaychatbonneau

TH3_FRB said:


> Gain and viewing angle - 1.2 and 90deg for the 3D, 1.5 and 80deg for the 5D


Do you know how well the Cinegrey 3D works for passive 3D?


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## simpleHT

DonRSD said:


> I have a 9 month old 110" 5d screen.
> Going to order a black diamond 1.4 within the next week.
> Will most likely sell the 5d, if anyone is interested.
> 
> As for the screen - it does the job. 1st screen I've ever had & paired it with an Epson 5030.....and not an Epson 5040.
> Only reason for the upgrade is I crave better blacks & contrast.


Did you compare side by side between cinegrey 5d and the BD 1.4? I currently have 115" BD 1.4, and I am very happy with the ambient light feature and good black. However, I want to upsize to 135", and BD 1.4 does not have any bigger size than 120", and also will cost my arms and legs  I am thinking to go with 135" cinegrey 5D, but afraid I might lose some picture quality.


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## macher

simpleHT said:


> Did you compare side by side between cinegrey 5d and the BD 1.4? I currently have 115" BD 1.4, and I am very happy with the ambient light feature and good black. However, I want to upsize to 135", and BD 1.4 does not have any bigger size than 120", and also will cost my arms and legs  I am thinking to go with 135" cinegrey 5D, but afraid I might lose some picture quality.


And what about SI Slate .8? I think that is better than BD 1.4 (no blue push and also deeper black). Size also more than 120". And maybe DEA, but max 122" 16:9 or 150" 1:2.35.


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## simpleHT

macher said:


> And what about SI Slate .8? I think that is better than BD 1.4 (no blue push and also deeper black). Size also more than 120". And maybe DEA, but max 122" 16:9 or 150" 1:2.35.


The last time I checked, BD Zero Edge .8 max size is only 115" for 16:9 format. The 1.4 max size is 120", but I want bigger


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## wolfslayer

I still have a sealed 120" cinegrey 5d material available (no frame just the screen material).


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## Dominic Chan

wolfslayer said:


> I still have a sealed 120" cinegrey 5d material available (no frame just the screen material).


Is it the "Designer Cut" raw material like this, or is it ready to mount with pockets etc?


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## Dominic Chan

*Construction method of Cinegrey 5D material*

For those of you who have assembled Cinegrey 5D screens, can you tell (by visual inspection) whether the folded edges (where the tensioning rods go) are created using some kind of stitching, or using adhesive? I asked the "tech support" chat guy on the Elite Screen website, but he's clueless.

I'm thinking of buying some Design Cut Cinegrey5D screen material to use with my current frame which uses tensioning rods. Since the frame is metal (aluminum), stapling is not an option.

Thanks in advance.

[EDIT]
I just received an email from Elite Screen Tech Support. The second rep is much more helpful and provided the following reply:

"Our factory uses a standard stitch for our fixed frame screens that use our acoustically transparent materials and use a heat bonding machine for our CineWhite and CineGrey3D/5D materials."

This is also the method Silver Ticket use for their vinyl screens. I was able to use the Lepage Heavy Duty Contact Cement to make the tensioning pockets. May try that on the CineGrey5D as well although that is significantly more costly experiment in case it doesn't work.


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## wolfslayer

Dominic Chan said:


> Is it the "Designer Cut" raw material like this, or is it ready to mount with pockets etc?


It is ready to mount. It is from a cinegrey 5d ez frame just without the frame of course. The material is brand new never been opened. Also I am just in Ottawa if you ever come this way.


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## wolfslayer

Dominic Chan said:


> Is it the "Designer Cut" raw material like this, or is it ready to mount with pockets etc?


Let me know if you are interested. I could do $450 cad shipped.


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## wolfslayer

$350 canadian shipped for brand new 120" cinegrey 5d material designed to be mounted on ezframe or sableframe.


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## roccol

*Advice needed for ALR Screen*

I'm going to be building my frame shortly and need some advice. 
Projector Vivitek 1186 ceiling mount 14ft - 14.5ft from screen
Seating distance 13.5 feet. One long couch all seats face the screen wall.
Walls and ceiling are Benjamin more Revere Pewter(Greyish tan). 
One big sliding patio door to the right.
One large window under the projector facing the screen wall.
I will get some window and door treatments, but am not looking for a cave.

Currently I'm projecting a 145" screen on to my wall. Picture is really good at night. I really don't want to go smaller than 135".

Not so many options at this size. Due to throw distance, I'm thinking Cinegray 3D or Carl's ALR. Looking for some opinions. Thanks.


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## wolfslayer

$200 shipped in canada or $235 shipped to U.S for brand new 120" cinegrey 5d material ready to be mounted on ezframe or sableframe.

http://shop.elitescreens.com/ezFrameCineGrey5D-1.aspx

elite sells it for $420 us. This is a huge bargain.


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## ed3120

strawberry said:


> Here's my preliminary review:
> 
> I recently ordered a 120" Starling Tab Tension version of the material and installed it last week. Unfortunately, when I lowered the screen for the first time I discovered that something had punctured through several layers of the fabric while it was still on the roller, creating a vertical series of small holes about a third of the way in from the left edge of the screen. I'm currently going through the RMA process to get a new one in. I figured since it was installed, I'd go ahead and put the thing through its paces, though.
> 
> First, a few thoughts about the Starling case and craftsmanship of the overall package. The case is minimalist and hides well enough in the room (as well as anything 11 feet long can). As compared to my previous DaLite Model C with HP 2.8 material, I would say that the case is considerably less beefy and less rugged. The same goes for the material. The HP material was very thick and sturdy, the Cinegrey 5D is basically a thin sheet of rubber. The DaLite had a woven black fabric masking/drop material, whereas the Cinegrey 5D just has black rubber. As an overall package, the Starling seems much more delicate and will need to be treated thusly. It is a budget option, after all. Putting all that aside, the motor is fairly quiet and smooth and I still think the package overall is a good value proposition.
> 
> As for the material itself: it does about what you'd hope/expect. I've also owned a Black Diamond 1.4 gain screen and used it as my primary screen for a couple of years. In terms of optical performance, the Cinegrey 5D material is roughly comparable to the BD 1.4 in a lot of ways. To compare the two directly, I'd say that the Cinegrey 5D is a little less prone to some of the drawbacks of the BD 1.4 (hotspotting is less apparent, sparklies/sheen is not as noticeable, viewing cone seems a bit more forgiving) but the BD has more real-world gain (I didn't measure, but my guess is that the Cinegrey 5D is closer to unity than the rated 1.5) and the BD does a bit better of a job of rejecting ambient light, especially from the sides. Of course, one thing plays into the other. The narrower cone and more noticeable texture/sheen of the BD are precisely the reason it does better at rejecting off-axis light and has more real-world gain. All-in-all, the Cinegrey 5D holds up admirably and shares many of the same attributes. If you're looking at the Cinegrey 5D as a budget-minded alternative to the BD materials, I'd say that's a pretty accurate description of what it is. There is also a strong color shift to the BD material (towards blue) which doesn't seem to be an issue with the Cinegrey 5D, at least to the naked eye.
> 
> I've seen mention of horizontal bands in the material on this forum, so I wanted to address that as well. I definitely noticed them on the model I received. My guess would be that because the material is so thin, these are actually impressions left by the roller bar itself as the bands seem to be regularly spaced and become more pronounced the closer you get to the top of the screen. They are definitely noticeable at times, especially in higher APL scenes. I wouldn't call them a deal breaker, but I could see how others might. I'm not expecting anything different with regard to the replacement as far as this issue is concerned and I'm prepared to accept it as a minor drawback in an otherwise strong value proposition.
> 
> I'll report back if I see anything notably different in my replacement screen (other than hopefully being free from punctures!) and will be happy to field any questions in the interim.


Did the horizontal wrinkles ever go away?


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## pottscb

So, I?m looking at doing Elite Cinegray 5D/3D with a ceiling mounted Benq 2150ST, mounted 5 ft away. BenQ rep says this material isn?t meant for short throw use as it rejects ceiling light but he refuses to acknowledge that I?m not tabletop mounting it...is there any reason this material would be a bad fit for the described setup? It is angular reflective material, right? (With no lenticular ridges?)


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## kdunham0514

pottscb said:


> So, I?m looking at doing Elite Cinegray 5D/3D with a ceiling mounted Benq 2150ST, mounted 5 ft away. BenQ rep says this material isn?t meant for short throw use as it rejects ceiling light but he refuses to acknowledge that I?m not tabletop mounting it...is there any reason this material would be a bad fit for the described setup? It is angular reflective material, right? (With no lenticular ridges?)


Im in an identical situation. My projector will be about 6.5-7 ft away on ceiling and sitting area is about 7-8 ft. Really want to go with this material because of kids and this being shared family/HT room. Im eagerly awaiting some knowledgable feedback!


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## kdunham0514

I realize ultra/short throw projectors are not recommended. Whats the closest anyone has placed a projector? How was the hot spotting? Do you think if your able to keep a good mirrored angel to your viewing position this screen would still work? If not what would you recommend for someone in a moderate light controlled room and needs an electric flush mount screen?


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## Dominic Chan

kdunham0514 said:


> I realize ultra/short throw projectors are not recommended. Whats the closest anyone has placed a projector? How was the hot spotting? Do you think if your able to keep a good mirrored angel to your viewing position this screen would still work?


The problem is that you can only achieve a good mirrored angle to your viewing position at a single point on the screen (usually the centre or slightly higher). Towards the edge of the screen, the reflected light is _way _off the mirrored angle.


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## tomasg

Hi, anyone from US to help me get Elite Screen Designers Cut Cinegrey 5D to Europe? Thank you


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## Webmonkey

Hi guys.




If one has an almost perfect blackout (with blackout curtains) in the living room, is there any reason to get a 5D / 3D - or any other ALR screen??


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## Dominic Chan

Webmonkey said:


> If one has an almost perfect blackout (with blackout curtains) in the living room, is there any reason to get a 5D / 3D - or any other ALR screen?


For the perfect viewing environment it’s not sufficient to just black out (block) the external lights. The walls, ceiling and floor covering also need to be black [EDIT: dark, non-reflective], otherwise the light from bright parts of the projected image itself will reflect off those surfaces and kill the contrast. An ALR screen will minimize such reflections and improve the contrast.


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## MississippiMan

*"Almost" Perfect is pretty darn good......*

Contrast as comes out of the PJ cannot be "Improved" at all. 

Almost all ALR screens cannot "Improve" contrast as it hits/ reflects off the screen....just help to "Maintain". Now some very few can make Blacks stay significantly darker without dulling Whites and Colors***, but that is as much magic as can be expected. And usually the end result is Sparklies and Graininess.

** That aspect has always been at the forefront of advanced DIY painted Screen solutions I've created...
*
And in a fully darkened room, if the surrounding Wall / Ceiling surfaces are 5-6' way or more, the effects of reflections off those surface are minimal.

Of course much has to do with the PJ being used, and how bright it is, and how much Native Contrast it has. The deeper the Blacks produced, and the wider the Contrast ratio, the worse Ambient Light / Reflective light has to be to be deleterious.

And why....WHY do people keep insisting on Black Ceilings and Walls????

A very Dark Flat Neutral Gray, or almost any darker "Cool" Flat Color scheme will squash light reflection to a point of insignificance.


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## Dominic Chan

MississippiMan said:


> Contrast as comes out of the PJ cannot be "Improved" at all.
> 
> Almost all ALR screens cannot "Improve" contrast as it hits/ reflects off the screen....just help to "Maintain".


The OP has a JVC projector that does not need the native contrast "improved". I was referring to improving the "net" contrast relative to one in a poor room/screen, which would be _far _worse than what the projector is inherently capable of.
You may want to call that "minimizing the degradation", but to me “improvementl means the same thing if you're not caught up in the semantics.



> And in a fully darkened room, if the surrounding Wall / Ceiling surfaces are 5-6' way or more, the effects of reflections off those surface are minimal.


I am glad you have such a room, but I definitely don't have any room in my 3000 sf house where I can place a 10' wide screen _and _keep it 5-6' away the ceiling, floor, and both side walls. And I doubt many others do.


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## Webmonkey

Dominic Chan said:


> For the perfect viewing environment it’s not sufficient to just black out (block) the external lights. The walls, ceiling and floor covering also need to be black, otherwise the light from bright parts of the projected image itself will reflect off those surfaces and kill the contrast. An ALR screen will minimize such reflections.
> And improve the contrast.





ah.. I should have mentioned that my back, front walls and ceiling are painted in a dark neutral grey (65% black, 35% white - NCS-S 6500-N) while sides are a medium neutral grey at NCS S4500 with a drop of yellow to warm it up a bit.




- as it is - even on a hot summer day with strong sun, I can see some light leaking into the room at the side and floor where the black out curtains do not cover 100%.


But during this daytime, it is still so dark that I can not see my hand in front of my face (projektor off) and I need to use my phone to find the remotes on the table.... 


So for this reason, I start to wonder, if a light grey Da-Lite affinity would be a better choice, as I can now control the ambient light


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## Dominic Chan

Webmonkey said:


> So for this reason, I start to wonder, if a light grey Da-Lite affinity would be a better choice, as I can now control the ambient light


Personally, I find the 0.9-gain light grey screens to provide negligible improvements over matte white gains.


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## Webmonkey

Dominic Chan said:


> Personally, I find the 0.9-gain light grey screens to provide negligible improvements over matte white gains.



how about the 1.x ones then?


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## Dominic Chan

Webmonkey said:


> how about the 1.x ones then?


Well, to me 30% extra brightness is readily noticeable, but 30% increase in in contrast ratio is not that significant. Just my humble opinion.


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## Webmonkey

Dominic Chan said:


> Well, to me 30% extra brightness is readily noticeable, but 30% increase in in contrast ratio is not that significant. Just my humble opinion.





I see that the naming has changed from JKP Affinity to HD Progressive at Da-Lite. - and there is a 1.3 gain "high Contrast" screen material now with 20% ALR. This could be interesting


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## ericlhyman

Widescreen Review Dec 2018 has a very favorable review of Elite CineGray 5D.


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## randman

I’m looking to replace my 92” screen. I’d like a 106” ALR, retractable, motorized, tab-tensioned screen. I was pleasantly surprised when I read about the CineGray (and its much lower cost than other options). 

I need some suggestions on measurements to ensure I have the ideal angles for ALR. Below are some of room’s numbers:

1. My throw distance is 11.5 inches, which puts me just about 1.5x the width of a 106” diagonal screen.
2.My projector is about 14” from ceiling. Ceiling height is 7’ 10”.
3. Distance from screen to seating area is approximately 10’. 
4. Distance from floor to eye level (when reclined) is maybe 3’ to 4’ (I need to measure this). 

I read earlier that ideally I need a throw distance of 1.8x to 2x screen width will minimize hot spotting, But, 1.5x is the furthest I can do (or run into a window). As long as the hot spot isn’t bothersome when one doesn’t try to look for it all the time, I would prefer a bigger screen (and bigger jump from my existing 92” screen). 

I am trying to figure out the ideal drop for a 106” screen (distance from ceiling to top of screen) and also the ideal drop of the projector from the ceiling. These are the 2 main variables that I can control. I don’t have much flexibility in seating distance. Maybe I can move seats 1’ forward or back. 

I saw the CineGray figure that shows how the 2 angles should be the same. I guess the distances are taken from the middle of the screen? Anyone have any details on doing the calculations? I suppose I’d need vertical distances (projector to center of screen height and eyes to center of screen height), throw and viewing distances from screen, and some old High School trigonometry (inverse tangent?) since it would be harder to measure actual angles with a compass? Or is this getting too derailed and anyone have suggestions or rules of thumb for aforementioned numbers?


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## randman

I did the measurements with my room. Looks like I can get 10 degrees for the angle from the projector to the middle of the screen, and also 10 degrees from the screen to eye height. I assume 10 degrees is okay as long as incoming and outgoing angles match?


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## netjack

How is the horizontal banding issue? Is it pretty prevalent and can you see it on bright scenes/images?


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## annihilator

what i can say is with my jvc RS46 (so great contrast) despite some issues as hotspot (not noticeable during view) the result with 92 inches cinegrey 5D is a huge i mean huuuuge improvement over the white screen. I tried yesterday again the white after 30 days of cinegrey and i was shocked how could even think that was a nice image..


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