# Sticky  the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!!



## cinemascope

Hello all...

There have been many discussions of te ubiquitous Lutron Grafik Eye here in the Theater Design & Construction area before and after the re-design of the categories. There are bits and pieces of good info on many of those threads along with a serious amount of redundancy in the questions.


Since there are so many other threads each with partial information about the various GRX models, I decided to consolidate all of the info to one thread.


To anyone that does not know what a Grafik Eye (GRX) is, here is a pic:










This is a four zone unit with a White "T" cover. That means that the top portion is translucent, which means you can see the status LEDs of the various zones.


The "A" cover would have the top portion "opaque" and the same color as the bottom of the cover.

*DEFINITIONS AND TERMS:*
*Zones:*

In this context, a "zone" refers to a light fixture, or group of light fixtures on the same electrical circuit. An example would be a group of sconces in a theater room or a group of louver lights in risers and walkways of a theater room.


Many times, can lights and other ceiling lights are grouped into multiple zones.


As an example, you may have the lights over the seating area be one zone, and the lights highlighting the screen/proscenuim area as a second zone, and a dedicated "wall wash" fixture over the rack as a third zone.

*Scenes:*

In this context, a "scene" refers to a snapshot of multiple zones each at different instensities. Once a particular scene is programmed, a single press will return all of the selected zones to the intensities programmed for that scene.


Common scenes in a home theater application might include:

'Clean Up' - all zones at 100% intensity for maximum visibility

'Access' - sconces on medium and aisle lights on high for people entering and leaving

'Watch Movie' - screen cans off, sconces at very, very low or totally off, and aisle lights just at a very low level.

'Intermission' - Aisle lights and sconces at similar levels to 'Access', plus the rack or control room lights on to allow loading DVDs or tapes, flipping Laserdiscs, etc.

*Lamps:*

When consumers first get into lighting, they may notice that all lighting designers call all bulbs "lamps"... It would be more accurate to say that consumers call all lamps "bulbs".


You may see or hear terms like MR-15, PAR-20 flood, and T-8 blue spectrum... be mindful or these terms, because they describe different lamps for different applications. I am shocked to see how many homeowners, and even professional electricians, choose the incorrect bulbs, especially the lamps/bulbs in can lights.


When you choose by wattage and shape alone, you may well be choosing an yellowish low color temperature outdoor flood lamps for your can lights in your theater.


Color temp in lighting means the same thing as it does on video... In the world of lighting, higher is better than lower. Halogens are usually higher in spectrum, so they have a bluer "whiter" light.


The new GE Reveal bulbs are pretty nice and are a significant improvement over traditional incandescents. Considering the price of these bulbs/lamps, and the inefficient nature of incandescent bulbs to begin with, IMO it would be a wise choice to select halogen fixtures whenever possible.


Dennis Erskine seems to be fond of the Ardee recessed fixtures, but given my proximity to the HQ of Juno lighting, we see their fixtures most often.


If you are REALLY serious, consult a lighting designer to specify your fixtures, trims, lamp types, and even the lighting intensity of each zone in for a few scenes to create the maximum effect.


And BTW...

Yes, a table lamp or floor lamp is also called a lamp by everyone in case anyone is curious...

*Loads:*

This document rom Lutron is a good example of the types of loads that you may face.
http://www.lutron.com/technical_info...mingBasics.pdf 


In this context, "loads" refers to the type and wattage of the fixtures/lamps on a zone.


To determine the load for a zone, total up the wattage of the fixtures on each planned zone to get this number.

(ie. Four Juno recessed light fixtures with 60 watt incandescent bulbs = 240 watts on zone 1...)


GRX dimmers can dim up to 800 watts on any single zone, but the total capacity limits the GRX (all series) to the following:

2 zone - 1200 watts total

3 zone - 1500 watts total

4 zone - 2000 watts total

6 zone - 2000 watts total


If your intended fixtures exceed the zone or unit capacity, use a Power Booster on the largest load(s).


The most common loads are:

Incandescent.

This includes mostof what we would use in theaters. Edison type "bulb" shaped bulbs/lamps, reflectorized spot and flood lamps, chandelier bulbs, halogen lamps, and some rope lighting.


MLV (magnetic low voltage lighting)

Can lights and track lights with magnetic transformers that convert line voltage to low voltage. Most LV rope lights are MLV.

GRX units can dim MLV loads.


ELV (electronic low voltage lighting)

Can lights and track lights with electronic transformers that convert line voltage to low voltage. NOTE: GRX units CANNOT directly dim ELV loads, and GRX-ELVI interface is required and it will require it's own 2 gang box.


It is not recommended to mix different loads on the same zone. If you desire different types of fixtures to track together (ex. sconces and rope lighting), choose a larger GRX unit and program the zones to track together.

*CHOOSING A GRAFIK EYE (GRX):*

The three basic series of GRX for Home Theater use are:

*GRX-2400 series*
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/grx2000.asp?s=&t= 

GRX-2402 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ 420

GRX-2403 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ 500

GRX-2404 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 580

_Features:_

This is the most basic series in the GRX family. 4 scenes only.

Basic IR control (incl. scenes 1-4, all off)

Fixed 3 second fade between scenes and a 10 second fade to off.

This unit is not compatible with Accessory Controls, but you can still accomadate multiple entry points with a single button Entrance Control (NT-GRX-1S) that toggles between from scene to off, and from off to back to scene 1.

*GRX-3100 (aka MR series)*
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/grx3100.asp?s=&t= 

GRX-3102 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ 690

GRX-3103 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ 770

GRX-3104 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 850

GRX-3106 (6 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ 1,010

_Features:_

Advanced IR control (incl. scenes 1-16, raise, lower, all off)

Variable fade time on all scenes and off.

Fade time programmable from 1-59 seconds or from 2-60 minutes.

The 3100 and 3500 series step up to 16 scene control, with 1-4 on the front cover of the GRX, and 5-16 being available via IR, or through MUX from the Accessory Controls or interfaces (except RS-232)

*GRX-3500 (aka IA series)*
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/3545.asp?s=&t 

GRX-3502 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon

GRX-3503 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon

GRX-3504 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon

GRX-3506 (6 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon

_Features:_

The 3500 series is programmable with 1% resolution in dimming steps, vs. @6-7% steps on the 2400 and 3100 series.

The same advanced IR control as the 3100 series, except the raise and lower have more steps in the resolution.

The 3500 series adds the capability of using the RS-232 interface which adds real time feedback to a control system as well as direct communication dimming w/out establishing presets. (ie: directly dimming one load only to modify an existing scene)

*Accessory Controls:*

As for Accessory Controls, the NTGRX models have been the only choice for years,

but recently Lutron introduced the SeeTouch series and everyone LOVES the SeeTouch keypads.
http://www.lutron.com/seetouch/seetouchA.pdf 

With the SeeTouch, you can have your scene names engraved into the 4 scene buttons and have them appear backlit... this is a VERY attractive option and a nice effect when entering a dark room.

*Remotes:*

There are remotes available directly from Lutron for the GRX series, but most HT designers use the discrete codes which are pre-programmed into the database nearly every programmable remote and readily available from places like www.remotecentral.com .


Here is the link to the IR files for several formats for diferent remotes as well as an excel spreadsheet that has the breakdown of each code.
http://www.lutron.com/technical_info...ol/default.asp 

*ALL GRX dimmers share the following...*

Any zone can be programmed to switch instead of dim, so you can use the GRX to switch loads that cannot easily be dimmed, such as flourescent and neon.

You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO.


Other fixtures including ELV, flourescent, and higher wattage loads can be accomodated with the proper interface, power modules and/or dimming ballast.


Scenes 1-4 are always controlled on the face of the GRX and these scenes cannot be locked. As users change light levels under the top cover of the GRX, the l;ast scene selected is also changed. The GRX will return to the last state when that scene is recalled. If you have a 3100 or 3500, program your accessory controls, remotes, and touchcreens using scenes 5-16. These can only be modified in programming mode, and the programmed scenes will be consistently recalled regardless of the last status of the controls under the cover.


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## cinemascope

Here are some of the other threads that had various info regarding the Grafik Eye:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...64#post5859064 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551838 


The thread where members Bpape and Toxarch details the installation of an IR emitter, including a nice photo by Toxarch.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=grafik+eye


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## DMF

Some additions.


Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.


Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.


I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.


To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.


Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks. Faceplates are replacable, but cost $80-150.


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## cinemascope

*INSTALLATION OF YOUR GRX:*

Here is the official Installation Guide from Lutron:


IF YOU ARE HAVING AN ELECTRICIAN INSTALL THE GRAFIK EYE, MAKE SURE HE HAS A COPY OF THIS GUIDE *BEFORE* HE INSTALLS THE BOXES AND PULLS THE WIRING TO THE FIXTURES.


It's a good thing to provide a copy to your builder/GC as well.

*Physical Mounting of the GRX*

The GRX models are a notoriously difficult product to install.

It seems like there are as many opinions regarding the best method as there are AVS members, but here goes...


As outlined below in the "High Voltage Wiring" section of this post, you need to run all hots, neutrals, and grounds from each circuit to the GRX.

This equals a LOT of connections in the box.


The GRX is a deep device to begin with, so you can see the dificulties unless special measures are taken.


Lutron recommends a 3.5" deep steel masonry box, and you can order a box directly from Lutron.

(new construction P/N # 241-400 or old work P/N # 241-691)


and here is a photo and a link & a PDF sheet to the 4 gang version of the RACO box that is the most commonly available model.










If you are using a 2 zone or 3 zone GRX, you can get a 2 or 3 gang version of this box.

*High Voltage Wiring of the GRX*

Since there are so many regional adaptations to the NEC, I want to say that the high voltage section is not "definitive" and that consulting or hiring a local electrician is always the best bet.


The GRX needs all of the wiring (hot, neutral, and ground) for each of the independant lighting circuits to be pulled into one box.

This is a little bit unorthodox for some electricians, so let them know ahead of time what you plan to do, and print the Installation Guide for them if there are any questions.


Getting all of these cables into a box is tough, and AudibleSolutions and others (including me) recommends using stranded wire to make this easier to manage.

You can use stranded wire (THHN, THWN) in EMT conduit or flexible conduit (aka Greenfield) or buy armored or MC cable which is like flexible conduit with wire already inside. Be sure to look for stranded, and use the proper fittings for your boxes.


If you do not have experience terminating with wire-nuts on stranded wire, practice on a few spare lengths and/or wire the fixtures first. Also, a wrap or two of a good electrical tape like 3M Super 33+ over a wire-nut termination never did any harm and is considered a good practice by a lot of electricians.


In some areas you cannot use wire-nuts for the grounds, and they require compression sleeves instead. Again, check with an electrician in your area.

*Low Voltage Wiring of the GRX*
Here is a link to the Application Note from Lutron regarding the LV wiring of the PELV MUX Link used to interconect multiple GRXs in applications greater than 6 zones, and more commonly to connect Accessory Controls, Entrance Controls, Control Interfaces, and Lutron's dedicated IR receiver to the GRX.


In addition to the Installation Guide, I would also advise making copies of this sheet for the electrician and the builder/GC.

Also, local inspectors not familiar with GRX installations (although harder to find these days) always like to see the manufacturer's reference to the code specifications in regard to the LV in the high voltage box.


Be sure to use a cable rated at 600V for this application.

Lutron P/N # GRX-CBL-346S

Liberty P/N # Lutron-GRN (available by the foot from Dennis Erskine or myself)

Belden P/N # 9740 or 9156


You should be able to find the Lutron or Belden P/N as special orders by the spool from local electrical suppliers, or your local A/V dealer can order you some of the Liberty wire as he may already have an account.

*Multiple Entrances & 3-Way / 4-Way Circuits*

3-way wiring, 4-way wiring, etc. is not done in the traditional method.

If you have multiple entrances or are using a GRX in an application where you are controlling hallway or stairway lights where code mandates that controls are required in multiple locations, you will need to run the PELV Mux line outlined above to those additional areas and install NT or SG series Accessory Controls, or use high voltage cabling to an Entrance Controls at the other entry points.


The NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control is the ONLY external controller that uses line cabling in place of PELV Mux cable. It connects to the SSA and HOT leads instead of the PELV connector. I would not specify this control unless you have a 2400 series GRX.


NOTE: In many areas, audio/video keypads and control system touchscreen keypads do not qualify as controls toward the code and you will need a dedicated hard button control like the Lutron NT or SG Accessory Controls or the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control.


Remember that the GRX-2400 series does not have a PELV connection and is not compatible with NT or SG series Accessory Controls, and you can ONLY use the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control for this application. The NT-GRX-1S goes to the SSA and HOT terminals instead.

Here is the Spec Sheet on the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control:


*The 2 box Method*

Many people here at AVS are fans of pulling the line feed and all of loads through a junction box or another wall box and then only a single neutral and ground into the same box as the GRX. Then you would connect all of the neutrals and grounds from the all of the light fixture circuits (loads) in the first box tht the wire passes through.


The obvious issues here are aesthetic, a junction box in the joist space at the top or bottom of that wall cavity is one thing, but IMO a second wall box with a blank plate will definitely look odd.


Another consideration might be the terminations themselves, placing this many of these terminations in a second junction box may raise a flag with some inspectors in some areas.


It is my opinion that the point is moot. A second box is not necessary in most circumstances.


Using a 3.5" deep masonry box affords you plenty of real estate for all of the connections if you are smart about the length of the terminations and careful about folding them neatly into the box. Once again, a few twists of the cables in addition to a couple wraps of good tape can be your friend.


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some additions. Snatch what you want and I'll delete the post.



Keep it up here... this isn't "my" thread, and you have good info here.



> Quote:
> Grafik Eye is an integrated lighting control system consisting of one or more control units (pictured) and any number of accessories. A control unit contains a number of dimmers each of which control one or more luminaires (lights), allowing the user to combine dimmer settings into preset lighting "scenes". Common scenes might be 'Clean Up' - everything on high, 'Access' - sconces on medium and aisle lights on high for people entering and leaving, or 'Watch Movie' - some lights off and others low.



This is good basic description of scenes... I like the examples.

I am writing a thorough definition of zones and scenes and it is forthcoming.


I probably should have included that in the first post...


EDIT:

Check the first post...



> Quote:
> Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.



Personally, I consider the Spacer System to be a "GRX Lite", and the real life saver application of this product is in existing rooms/spaces where the wiring for the various fixtures is located in different boxes all over the room and re-wiring would be expensive.


Your point of the diminishing cost advantage of the SPS vs GRX mirrors my feelings exactly.


I think that too many people overuse the SPS line simply because it is so similar to traditional dimmers, and once more people understand the power and application of the GRX series, it will be an even more popular choice with AVSers.



> Quote:
> Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.



Yes, they are really only applicable to commercial spaces because they are the models that can control the remote dimming panels in addition to the zones that they control.


In residential use, even tying 2 GRX units together is impractical with the other options available today.


If you have more than 6 zones in a single space, or wish to control additional lighting throughout the home, Home Works or even Radio Ra can provide house wide control in a much more straightforward, powerful, and cost effective system and would certainly be a more appropriate system to build upon.



> Quote:
> I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.



I will double check these numbers and get them up early next week in addition to the retail pricimng of replacement covers in regular finishes as well as the metal finishes and Satin Colors options.



> Quote:
> To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can address up to 8 control units.
> 
> 
> Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks.
> 
> 
> Installation topic should go in a separate post?



I was typing it up as you posted this...


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## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> Scenes 1-4 are always controlled on the face of the GRX and these scenes cannot be locked.



Actually, Scenes 1-4 can be locked. In the scene set up (programming mode) on the 3000 series, the default of Sd can be changed to Sn (save never). Behind the faceplate you can change the current scene but as soon as you select that scene from a remote or the buttons on the face of the GE, the scene will return to it's originally programmed values.



Good information in the thread!


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, Scenes 1-4 can be locked. In the scene set up (programming mode) on the 3000 series, the default of Sd can be changed to Sn (save never). Behind the faceplate you can change the current scene but as soon as you select that scene from a remote or the buttons on the face of the GE, the scene will return to it's originally programmed values.



Wow, this is total news to me... I was taught _by Lutron_ in several trainings over the years to use scenes 5-16 on all programming SPECIFICALLY to avoid this issue.


You learn something new everyday!!



> Quote:
> Good information in the thread!



Thanks!


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## Tweakophyte

Nice thread. You should add something about the wall stations. The lutron site is confusing. I have 2 GEs and 2 wall stations all wire in series (for the communication lines). You can choose which box listens to which wall station (or both) plus have each GE listen to the other.


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tweakophyte* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice thread. You should add something about the wall stations. The lutron site is confusing. I have 2 GEs and 2 wall stations all wire in series (for the communication lines). You can choose which box listens to which wall station (or both) plus have each GE listen to the other.



What models of GRX and Accessory Controls do you have??


I linked the low voltage Application Note in my "Installation" post above...

It is pretty detailed regarding the connection of the PELV/Mux cabling between multiple devices.


As for the programming...

I know it can be _done_, but I'll be honest here... I have NEVER linked multiple GRX units together, so I don't have a clue how to begin to decribe the capabilties of how Accessory Controls and Interfaces may be used to communicate to multiple GRX units to extend the zone control beyond the six zones of a single unit.


As I said elsewhere, we have gone from the 6 zone GRX pretty much right to Radio Ra or HomeWorks Interactive...

(actually, Radio Ra has been pretty much replaced across the board with the HWI HomeServe line)


In fact, I try to justify a 4 series HWI processor with the HWI panel or wallbox dimming modules on theater jobs if budget isn't really an issue...


This method is significantly cleaner because ALL of the dimming/switching is done at the panel or in a surface mounted box in the has a LOT more flexibility in terms of programming (it's PC based!!), status and control (because we can use existing HWI modules in AMX) and it's a significantly more powerful base to build on in the future.


As I said above, this isn't MY thread, I just started it to keep from reposting the same info time after time...

Feel free to chime in with the issues you faced in that particular application.


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## DMF




> Quote:
> Be sure to use a cable rated at 600V for this application.
> 
> Lutron P/N # GRX-CBL-346S
> 
> Liberty P/N # Lutron-GRN
> 
> Belden P/N # 9470 or 9156



The "9470" number is wrong. It should be "9740". 9740 is single-pair and 9156 is two-pair. Two-pair is preferred since the pairs are color coded.


Both Belden specs are 300V, but maybe I'm not reading the specs correctly?


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The "9470" number is wrong. It should be "9740". 9740 is single-pair and 9156 is two-pair. Two-pair is preferred since the pairs are color coded.
> 
> 
> Both Belden specs are 300V, but maybe I'm not reading the specs correctly?



The part number has been corrected...


As for the 300V rating, I don't know.

These numbers (even the WRONG number which we have identified and corrected) came straight from Lutron's App Notes...


Personally, I like the Liberty Wire.

They are trade only.



> Quote:
> Also, I would put the "Low Voltage" section of the Installation post above the "Multiple Entrances" section so there's no forward reference (mux line) in the latter.



Done... I agree that was a weird phrase in hindsight, and I was trying to make the posts flow as much as possible...


Good tip.


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## Dennis Erskine

...ah, I have it in stock.


I've done some research on the 600V sheath. ... what I get for not keeping up. The app notes on the Lutron site are correct (some local authorities still require 600V sheath). Largely the difficulty is the NEC doesn't clearly define "low voltage".


Under class 1, we have power limited and remote control/signalling circuits. Class 1 remote control and signalling circuits are limited to 600V and hence Class 1 requires a 600V sheath. Much of the confusion in the field with inspecting authorities is the use appears to be signalling and remote control. Question is if you want to have that argument with an inspector.


Class 2 are defined under two different tables...one for direct current and one for alternating current. Regardless, if the equipment and the transformer (if used) is marked "Class 2", then you can wire according to Class 2 requirements. (NOTE: The Crestron ST-LT interface is not labeled "Class 2").


There are additional requirements for Class 1, 2, and 3 conductors when placed in a tray, raceway, and enclosures with line voltage conductors.


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## cinemascope

*INSTALLATION ADDENDUM:*:

Thanks to a good tip from AVS member AudibleSolutions, we have yet another method for getting all of those wires and the GRX into a single box.


The box in question is referred to as a "Gang box" in the Raco and T&B Steel City catalogs, although Alan says the supply houses (in NYC at least) will also know it as a rough-in box.


This particular use of the term "gang box" refers to a taller box with tabs on the sides of the opening, more like a junction box, to be used to attach a face or cover.


This is as opposed to the use of the term "gang" meaning the number of devices (receptacles, swtiches, etc.) that can be mounted directly into the holes along the top and bottom of the box, like a 4 gang switch box or a 4 gang masonry box...


Anyway, I have noticed that even though the depth is only 2.5", this type of box is 4.5" tall vs. the 3.75" height of the masonry box, this is a nice find!!

The 13/16" extension puts us within 1/4" of the masonry box in terms of depth directly behind the GRX, but gives us a LOT more room to place these terminations around it!!


The adapters for multi-gang openings will span the additional width of the "gang" boxes (or they can be used on the next size down "gang" box, but that doesn't help us) Ex. a 4 "gang" plate for a GRX fits on the 4 gang OR 3 gang "gang" box, but the 3 gang "gang" box wouldn't be advised for a GRX installation....

Here is the link to the T&B/Steel City catalog, unfortunately it is the entire 40 page catalog....


The Thomas & Betts/Steel City P/N# H4BD-3/4-1 is on page A34 of the above link, and you adapt it with a 13/16" extension ring, P/N# 4-GC on page A35 of the above link. This device is a 4 gang opening that is extended 13/16" inch from the coverplate that covers the entire face of the H4BD-3/4-1.


Since the "gang" boxes are actually taller than even the masonry boxes, plus there is additional width on either side of the 4 gang opening (man, this nomenclature is just batty!!) then you have significantly more room even though the box is not as deep.


AVS member DMF has located equivelants in RACO part numbers and posted them in one of the straggling GRX threads, and I am attaching links and thumbnail photos:

*The Box* 









*The Adapter* 










Thanks to Alan (AudibleSolutions) for this tip and to DMF for the assistance on detailing this method of installation.


--Rick.


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've done some research on the 600V sheath. ... what I get for not keeping up. The app notes on the Lutron site are correct (some local authorities still require 600V sheath). Largely the difficulty is the NEC doesn't clearly define "low voltage".
> 
> 
> Under class 1, we have power limited and remote control/signalling circuits. Class 1 remote control and signalling circuits are limited to 600V and hence Class 1 requires a 600V sheath. Much of the confusion in the field with inspecting authorities is the use appears to be signalling and remote control. Question is if you want to have that argument with an inspector.
> 
> 
> Class 2 are defined under two different tables...one for direct current and one for alternating current. Regardless, if the equipment and the transformer (if used) is marked "Class 2", then you can wire according to Class 2 requirements. (NOTE: The Crestron ST-LT interface is not labeled "Class 2").



Liberty's LUT-GRN meets/exceeds of these specs, right??

(excepting plenum or riser, but that's another story)


> Quote:
> ...ah, I have it in stock.



There you go... This is the most important part of this techno-babble discussion for the average AVSer.

Dennis sells correct Lutron cable from Liberty Wire loose so I don't have to!!


Support the AVSers like Dennis that support us.


EDIT:

I am assuming that Dennis means Liberty LUT-GRN, as this is the GRX MUX cable...

Is that correct Dennis??


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## cinemascope

Monday I will be hitting at least one supply house...

I will grab a standard plastic box, a masonry box, and the contraption listed above and try to take photos of each method side by side for scale.


I have a wall in the old basement that is unfinished on one side, so I could even dry fit each of them side by side by side in consecutive stud bays for some in cavity shots.

That may require a lot of basement cleaning on my part, so we'll just have to see about that one...


I do not have a 4 or 6 zone GRX here... so unfortunately I cannot test the ease of stuffing it into each of the 3 options for comparison!!


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> do not have a 4 or 6 zone GRX



...ah, in stock as well..











> Quote:
> Liberty's LUT-GRN meets/exceeds of these specs, right



Yup...600V sheath.


Note: The Lutron Dimmer and Switch cable is 600V, the Lutron Keypad cable is not which is why you'll sometime see Lutron White being used for HWI keypads because most local authorities will not allow anything less than 600V into a panel with RPMs in the same panel.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...ah, in stock as well..



Which is why you are the man...

We have a metric ton of HWI that just came in for a job that is in process... but no GRX.



> Quote:
> (re: Liberty Lutron-GRN) Yup...600V sheath.



I really like Liberty's Lutron wire... we just pulled a couple miles of Lutron-YEL.



> Quote:
> Note: The Lutron Dimmer and Switch cable is 600V, the Lutron Keypad cable is not which is why you'll sometime see Lutron White being used for HWI keypads because most local authorities will not allow anything less than 600V into a panel with RPMs in the same panel.



That's insane... some of our back woods inspectors out on our rural jobs didn't have ANY idea how to react to HWI the first time they saw it, but now they are very cool about it.


Just in case, I have gotten into the habit of keeping a stack of App Notes in a binder that I keep in a D4 drawer in the bottom of one of the distributed audio racks which usually happen to be in the mechanical room near the HWI panels.


Looks like we made sticky!!

Nice.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Interfaces:


There are several interfaces which are available for the Grafik Eye:


PB - Power Booster. The power booster allows a zone to handle 2000 watts. With a six zone Grafik Eye and six PB's, you could run 12,000 watts of lighting from a single GE. Don't know why you'd want to; but you can. EDIT: You are limited to two PB per zone, for a total of 24000 watts.


ELVI - Electronic Low Voltage Interface - This will allow the use of fixtures using Electronic Low Voltage (ELV) transformers. The ELV's, however, must be rated for dimming applications.


FDBI - Fluorescent Dimming Ballast Interface - Lutron offers a wide variety of dimming ballasts for florescent and compact florescent lamps. For example, if you wanted to put high CSI, 6500K fluorescent strip fixtures in your coves or soffits, you could dim these lamps with a Grafik Eye.


Please review the Lutron Application and Installation notes for each of these interfaces before using or purchasing.


----------



## DMF

*Update*: Member COS has posted some nifty pics of him replacing his everyday Carlon plastic switch box with a full-size Grafik Eye. There's nothing like seeing it done right before you try it yourself...


DMF sez, " *Check it out* ".










Now back to my original post (yeah, you'll need to read it too):

-----------------------------------------

Here's a condensed version of items gleaned from the Tips and Tricks thread, which rapidly turned into an Installation thread:
Don't try to make sense of the Grafik Eye line (and all the options and accessories) just by looking at the Lutron web site. The site is confusing and doesn't present the full line well (e.g. you'd never know that there is a SeeTouch series of wallstations just by looking at the site). Get your hands on a Lutron catalog and browse it. Lutron does a very good job of showing what is possible. You may need to go to a Lutron dealer to see one.


Buy more zones than you think you'll need. You _will_ find that you need them and the extra cost of more zones in the first controller is a lot less than that of adding a second controller.


Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons:
Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better.
Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.
Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).

The recommended box for the 4- and 6-circuit Grafik Eyes is the *Raco 698*, a four-gang, 3.5" deep masonry box. Most any electrical supply store will have one in stock. Expect to pay between $10 and $20. If you're using NM (Romex) cable be sure to use cable clamps where they enter the box. Multiple cables can enter through the same knockout/clamp.


Lutron used to, but no longer sells a GE that can be supplied by two different circuits. If the wiring load on the GE exceeds the 1800W (approx) limit of a 15A supply, then a 20A supply must be used. If the load exceeds a single 20A supply, then external power boosters (NGRX-PB) can be used to offload zones. (The power booster is rated at 2000W, so 12,000W can be dimmed by a single 3x06!) Each power booster may have its own supply.


 Here is how to calculate box fill (box size needed to contain X number of wires and devices). [Edit: Fill is an issue for a second box and may be an issue for the GE box. See later posts in this thread, especially about the box volume occupied by the Grafik Eye itself.]


It is possible but difficult to wire the Grafik Eye with the 14 or 12 AWG solid wire (e.g. Romex). With 7-9 of them bolted to the unit it is darn difficult to seat. (Never force it!) Using 14 or 12 AWG stranded THHN pigtails from the solid wires makes it much easier to seat but uses extra volume.


If you run THHN outside a box e.g. to a second box, it must be run inside conduit. If the box is metal, the conduit must also be metal.


The low voltage jacketed PELV cable does not need to run in conduit, but if you do run it in conduit, it must not run in the same conduit as the power wires.


Conduit fill:
1/2" EMT (thinwall metal conduit) can carry a maximum of nine (9) 12 AWG THHN.
3/4" EMT can carry a maximum of sixteen (16) 12 AWG THHN.
In general it is recommended to use about half the maximum.
Romex is counted differently than THHN in conduit, and at any rate need not inhabit conduit.
 Calculation and chart .

According to code, you must to carry the minimum wire gauge of the supply leg through to each secondary leg (i.e. each zone). Thus if you have a 20A breaker on the GE supply (minimum 12 AWG), then *each* zone controlled by the GE must use 12 AWG, even if there's only a single 50W lamp in the zone.

(This is a safety rule. An 18A short or draw would exceed the capacity of 14 AWG without causing the breaker to trip. Bad bad bad.)


Shoddy wiring can cost treasure and lives. *If you (non-professional) are not capable of doing the work with the same care and integrity as a professional, or are unwilling to investigate the best methods and practices that professionals use, then you should not be doing the work.*


----------



## cinemascope

Great post Dennis!!


The interfaces are an important part of what makes the Lutron line the best choice. They open up a lot of options and solve a lot of problems.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interfaces:
> 
> 
> There are several interfaces which are available for the Grafik Eye:
> 
> 
> PB - Power Booster. The power booster allows a zone to handle 2000 watts. With a six zone Grafik Eye and six PB's, you could run 12,000 watts of lighting from a single GE. Don't know why you'd want to; but you can.



The Power Booster (NGRX-PB) is $230 MSRP

Here is it's Spec sheet and Installation guide 



A single zone of a GRX can dim loads up to 800 watts, but the unit capacity of the entire GRX may limit you in certain applications (although this is VERY rare in HT applications).


** I edited the DEFINITIONS section of the first post to be more clear regarding load capacity.


The most common application for power boosters would be large chandeliers or multiple chandeliers in a grand foyer that have a LOT of little incandescent bulbs, they add up to some astronomical figures sometimes.


Another application would be a space with LOTS of recessed lights on a single zone like a large room or hall.


Outdoor lighting applications where you may have dozens of fixtures that you want to control together would be another application where you could easily exceed 800 watts.


Again, none of these applications is likely for a unit specified for home theater lighting control, but many people that are not yet ready for a complete whole home lighting control system may still decide to install GRX units in kitchens, dining rooms, foyers, etc. where there are a large number of fixtures that can be zoned and controlled for dramatic effect.


Basically, the Power Booster is powered by it's own circuit from the panel, and it is connected to the zone output of the GRX. It tracks the level from the GRX, and mirrors that intensity in it's own big internal dimmer that controls the load...


For SERIOUS loads, Lutron makes dimming panels that install near the electrical panel that can dim loads up to 10,000 watts, so a single GRX MR-6 or IA-6 could dim 60,000 watts of lighting!! Again this isn't a practical application, but it's possible!!


They work the same way in that they receive a zone output from another dimmer and mirror the level set by the Grafik Eye, Radio Ra dimmer, etc.



> Quote:
> ELVI - Electronic Low Voltage Interface - This will allow the use of fixtures using Electronic Low Voltage (ELV) transformers. The ELV's, however, must be rated for dimming applications.
> 
> 
> FDBI - Fluorescent Dimming Ballast Interface - Lutron offers a wide variety of dimming ballasts for fluorescent and compact fluorescent lamps. For example, if you wanted to put high CSI, 6500K fluorescent strip fixtures in your coves or soffits, you could dim these lamps with a Grafik Eye.



The ELVI (ELVI-1000) is $210 MSRP

Here is it's Spec sheet and Installation guide 


The FDBI (GRX-FDBI) is $210 MSRP

Here is it's Spec sheet and Installation guide 


All three of the interfaces mentioned here physically look like a thick 2 gang blank white cover plate when installed. And each of them installs into a deep 2 gang box (similarly to a 2 zone GRX)


Since this does not really need to be in the room, it is usually hidden in a mechanical space, or most appropriately, back near the electrical panel.


FDBIs and dimmable ballasts are seen a lot in hotel conference rooms, schools, Government buildings, and other corporate buildings where they want the efficiency of fluorescent and still want to dim.


Before you decide that a fluorescent fixture is right for you, price out the control.

Dimming ballasts can be EXPENSIVE... especially considering you need a $210 box to talk to them, and if you want to split fluorescents into multiple zones, you will need an FDBI and a dimming ballast for each circuit.


To the best of my knowledge, the small dimming ballasts start at $210 MSRP and go up from there.


If you wish to invesigate the proper dimming ballasts for your fixtures, information can be found here 


Government agencies & corporations amortize the expense of using these exotic ballasts and fixtures over years of savings from the efficiency of the fixtures.

Some companies must maintain certain efficient lighting to qualify for things like tax credits, grants, etc... IMO, politics plays more of a part in this than anything...


Since the average HT gets used less than a hundred hours per month, it will take a LOOONG time to break even vs. just choosing another fixture that will also perform better and dim more smoothly.

Dimming many types of fluorescents through dimming ballasts can have "jerky" or uneven ramping up or down during a fade, and have an undesireable "pulsing" effect sometimes at low levels...


If you choose to dim fluorescents, manually set your lowest point before this occurs so the fixture dims to that point and then just goes to off.


> Quote:
> Please review the Lutron Application and Installation notes for each of these interfaces before using or purchasing.



Sage advice here from Dennis.


Also, if you think your project will be a candidate for any of these interfaces, it would probably be in your best intererest to consult a real lighting pro to help you sort things out.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a condensed version of items gleaned from the Tips and Tricks thread, which rapidly turned into an Installation thread:
> Don't try to make sense of the Grafik Eye line (and all the options and accessories) just by looking at the Lutron web site. The site is confusing and doesn't present the full line well (e.g. you'd never know that there is a SeeTouch series of wallstations just by looking at the site). Get your hands on a Lutron catalog and browse it. Lutron does a very good job of showing what is possible. You may need to go to a Lutron dealer to see one.



You can request literature by mail directly from Lutron on the web.


Use the link on this page: (it's also on every page of the Lutron site)
http://www.lutron.com/lutron/contact.asp# 


Depending on your browser, you may have to temporarily enable pop-ups to use the "request literature" link.


Otherwise call Lutron customer service:

888-LUTRON-1



> Quote:
> It is possible but not recommended to wire the Grafik Eye with the 14 or 12 AWG solid wire (e.g. in Romex). With 7-9 of them bolted to the unit it will be darn difficult to seat.



IMO, this is the benchmark of a good wiring job...

Taking care in routing wires and leaving nice bends so the unit isn't just mashed into place...


Whether or not you choose to pigtail, take some time and care to make sure the wires will go where you want them to go and lay neatly as you are sliding the GRX into place.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Also, understand the NEC calculations for box loading is *roughly* designed to provide adequate "air space" for all the elements in the box (clamps, conductors, etc.); however, NEC has not *yet* tackled the issue of electronic switches (ala, Grafik Eye, X-10, Vareo, etc.) which take up far more space in a box than a standard switch or duplex outlet.


----------



## DMF

Good point. While the volume of the GE is roughly the same as that occupied by four deep devices (which may not themselves be adequately reflected in the device allowances), those devices allow air to circulate between them; the GE does not. I guess one would calc the loading based on the leftover actual volume.


The Lutron dimensioned plan gives the dimmer body depth as 1 15/16". I asked Tedd to measure his 3104 for the other dimensions: 7 5/16" W and 2 3/4" H.


So the 4- and 6-zone GE takes about *36 in³* in the box.



I am uncertain as to whether the screw terminals on the GE should be counted as "clamps" in the calculations. (Should wire nuts?)


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ummm. Good point. 4- and 6-zone GE takes 87 in³ in the box. I guess one would calc the loading based on the leftover volume.



This is correct...


----------



## cinemascope

*MORE ABOUT ACCESSORY CONTROLS:*


I have already gotten quite a few PMs in the very first day this has been up, and more than one mentioned elaborating on the Accessory Controls, so here goes

*To 1S, or not to 1S...*

I am going to include a quote from a PM I received from Tedd.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tedd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you don't recommend the 1S controller for anything other then the 2400 series? (Outside of no LV for the 2400 series.)
> 
> 
> Is it because of the simple zone 1/off, or two scene nature of the controller?
> 
> The limited nature of the 1S was a plus to me, as my theater needs/wants are fairly straightforward with my 3104.
> 
> 
> Or did I overlook something (possibly important)?
> 
> 
> A little expansion on your thought process to ruling out the 1S might be a good idea for the thread.
> 
> 
> Sometimes, simpler can be better....



Well it is definitely the right choice for the 2400 series, because the NT-GRX-1S ($100 MSRP) is the ONLY choice for the 2400 series!!

As far as using the 1S with the 3100 and 3500 series, I understand your desire to keep the control at the entry very simple and it is certainly a good value, but personally feel that is not a good choice.


While it is simple, there are other controls that are also simple that operate on the MUX link vs. the line wiring that the 1S requires.


Since the 1S is the ONLY control that operates on line wiring, once you make the decision to wire for the 1S, the other options are out and you are pretty much limited to using the 1S.


If you wire the MUX cabling to your entrances, you have every option EXCEPT the 1S. If Lutron ever adds any more Accessory Control options for the GRX family (like they recently added the SeeTouch controls line) you can be sure that they will be MUX based.


If you change your mind and decide to go for a 5 button control that mimics the buttons on the unit, change to a SeeTouch control, or add a control with an IR receiver, you can make that change very simply by just plugging in the new unit.


If you were to make the change from a 1S to any other unit, replacing the wire may or not be easy depending on how your room is wired,


A dedicated conduit run from one box to the other would be simple to pull out the line cabling and fish in the LV cable.


If you have a conduit run that meets other line voltage runs in junction boxes would be more difficult. You cannot run LV cabling along with line voltage cabling, so if this were the case, you would need to install a dedicated conduit run to the area of the junction, maneuver the two runs and couple the new run to the existing run beside the junction and then cap the now unused knockout in the junction box.


If your cabling is ROMEX and stapled to the studs, you would have to possibly perform some wall surgery to remove it and pull the new MUX. (ROMEX would need to be removed; code states that you cannot leave un-terminated high voltage cabling in a wall).

*ACCESSORY CONTROL OPTIONS:*

I took the time to place specification sheet links on the various model numbers.


Another option for a simple Accessory Control would be the
NT-GRX-2B-SL $ 230 MSRP

This control has 2 large buttons with tiny LED indicators and is the most similar to the appearance of the 1S.


The benefit to this control vs. the 1S is that it can be programmed through dipswitch settings to be used as Zone 1, and All Off, or it can be used to trigger a pair of scenes which can be programmed to mimic other scenes, or set as dedicated scenes only to be accessed by that control. Whether or not this appeals to you now, the point is that you have these other options open.


Common Architectural Accessory Controls that feature the slim line buttons like what are on the face of the GRX include:

NTGRX-4S $200 MSRP

This control has been the popular choice (before the SeeTouch arrived) because it has 4 scene buttons and an all off, just like the face of the GRX, plus a handy raise/lower button that allows you to fine tune an existing scene.

NTGRX-4S-IR $300 MSRP

This control is the same as the 4S, excpet you lose raise/lower and gain an IR receiver.

*SeeTouch:*

The number one comment has been to elaborate on the SeeTouch control keypad

Here is the home page of SeeTouch at the Lutron website.

You will find many links including worksheets on how to order custom engraving


Here is a SeeTouch Accessory Control keypad:










This particular keypad is a SG-4SN-SN-EGN, which means it is a 4 button control w/ master raise/lower controls and a non insert coverplate in the Satin Nickel metal finish with black backlit buttons.


The SeeTouch comes in a variety of options, here are the most popular:


The SG-2BN (or SG-2BI "insert" version) $ coming soon

Which is a very simple and elegant 2 button control


The SG-4NRLN (or SG-4NRLI "insert" version) $ coming soon

Which has 4 scene control, plus all off


The SG-4SIRN (or SG-4SIRI "insert" version) $ coming soon

Which has 4 scene control, raise/lower, all off, and an IR receiver.


Above I mentioned a "non-insert" coverplate, and I included alternate "insert" part #s for the SeeTouch controls.

I want to elaborate on why you would choose an "insert" control. An insert coverplate is similar (although not compatible) to a Decora coverplate on a traditional switch or receptacle, and allows multiple insert controls to be ganged together with other Lutron controls and neatly finished with a Lutron Insert coverplate.


Speaking of ganging them together, Another benefit to the SeeTouch controls is that they are the exact match to the controls for the Sivoia QED motorized shades and draperies. Because they are also wired with low voltage cabling, you can place Sivoia controls and SeeTouch lighting controls in the same wall box and gang them together using the insert style controls.


Here is a Sivoia 4 button control with master raise/lower and an IR receiver.










Many multi-purpose media room style spaces have windows and more and more people are deciding to include blackout shades and/or drapery controls. Why not use the quietest shades on the market which are also easy to integrate into your theater's remote AND have control keypads that match your theater lighting control keypad??


On that note, here is a GREAT demo on motorized shades:


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is correct...
> 
> 
> How the heck do you make the little 3 to designate cubed??



Programs->Accessories->System Tools->Character Map


----------



## cinemascope

*GRX COVERS:*

I only briefly mentioned the coverplate options and available colors, so here is a more thourough description...


Once again, I will show the thumbnail pic of the GRX-MR4-T-WH (aka GRX-3104-T-WH)










This is a four zone unit with a White "T" cover. That means that the top portion is translucent, which means you can see the status LEDs of the various zones.

*STYLES:*

There are two styles of covers, "A" style and "T" style.


The "A" cover would have the top portion "opaque" and the same color as the bottom of the cover.

*COLORS*


OK, now here is a link to the online color samples. Some of these are not available for Grafik Eye.


Here are the available colors and styles that are available for the Grafik Eye coverplate:

*Architectural Matte Finishes:*

Available on A and T style covers

White (WH)

Ivory (IV)

Almond (AL)

Beige (BE)

Brown (BR)

Grey (GR)

Black (BL)

*Designer Gloss Finishes:*

Available on A style covers only

Gloss White (GWH)

Gloss Light Almond (GLA)

Gloss Almond (GAL)

Gloss Ivory (GIV)

*Satin Colors* *Matte Finishes:*

Available on A and T style covers

Hot (HT)

Ochre (OC)

Terracotta (TC)

Desert Stone (DS)

Stone (ST)

Limestone (LS)

Blue Mist (BT)

Midnight (MN)

Taupe (TP)

Biscuit (BI)

Eggshell (ES)

Snow (SW)

*METAL FINISHES*

*Architectural Metal Finishes:*

Available on "T" style covers only

Bright Brass (BB)

Bright Chrome (BC)

Satin Brass (SB)

Satin Chrome (SC)

Satin Nickel (SN)

Antique Brass (QB)

Antique Bronze (QZ)

Bright Nickel (BN)

*Anodized Aluminum Finishes:*

Available on "T" style covers only

Clear (CLA)

Black (BLA)

Brass (BRA)

Bronze (BZA)

ENGRAVING & CUSTOM COLORS:


Either of these options requires that you work with a lighting showroom (ie: not a home center) or an experienced high end home theater dealer that is experienced in handling these special orders.


Either option also requires an additional 4-6 weeks of additional lead time.

*Engraving:*

You can also have any of the metal finish plates engraved on custom order.

*Custom Colors:*

Lutron can custom color match a GRX cover to just about any solid color that you can provide.


They will also apply custom color to third party plates for a fee.

My company has had Lutron color match white keypads from audio companies to match the Lutron keypads. This is not cheap.


For those of you who own a Grafik Eye, you can replace your plate at any time with another color or finish, or order custom color or engraved plates and replace them yourselves.


It is unlikely that the places that sell Grafik Eyes on the internet will accomodate such special orders.


Your best bet is to contact a full service lighting design showroom that sells Lutron, or an experienced Lutron home theater dealer such as Dennis or myself or one near you, check the AVS Custom Installer Database .


----------



## Tweakophyte

Hi-


You asked which wall units I have. I have two of these at the bottom of my stairs.










One is for the HT and one is for the main parts of the basement (cans in romper, fireplace, pool rooms, and sconces in the last two). This is the more versatile model because you can set up your scenes on the GE, lock them in, then use the wall unit for temporary raise/lower tweaks (or in my case, my 2-yr old's tweaks). The "all off" is great, too. They make a model that is one step up and has an IR port, if I remember correctly.


I was told the SeeTouch line is really what you should be using for GEs these days.


----------



## audiblesolutions

There is one additional item to keep in mind with a Grafik Eye when considering whether to use a NT-GRX-1S or an accessory control. With the exception of 3500 series Grafik Eyes with a Homeworks system or serial interface, an off command on any Grafik Eye _will turn off all lights wired to that main unit._ A GRX-1S selects scene 1 and only scene 1 and off. It is to the best of my knowledge the only toggle logic available on a Grafik Eye. If your installation is a retro fit you may have to employ a GRX-1S. But you give up a lot of flexibility in so doing. If all the lights you are controlling are in one room this may not be a big deal. But if one of those lights is also in the hall leading to that room it can be a big deal. Moreover, it is much easier to deal with a low voltage wire than a 2 wire Romex cable.


There a few more issues with respect to the MUX link that need to be addressed. One is how to wire the MUX link. Remember if interconnecting multiple main units not to connect pin 2 ( power ) on the MUX link of those main units. The chip set in a Grafik Eye is relatively old. It is a quasi RS-485 network. The relevant fact is that the MUX link _MUST_ be wired from point to point from device to device. It should never be a home run or a T-tap. While I have seen these methods work on very short runs it is a gamble and it does not follow manufacturer's specification.


I am also waiting for the first smart individual to ask what the power limitiations on a MUX link are? In other words how many accessory devices can you add before needing to add an extra power supply? Not a big deal if all you are installing one in a theater. But if you have 2 accessory keypads, a serial interface and contact closure interface ( for shades and projector screens ) how many controls can you add to a GE MUX link without adding an additional power supply?


Answer is 3 Accessory Controls/Main Unit without adding an additional power supply. The specifications on that power supply are a _regulated_ 12v dc supply rated for a minimum of .6A or 600mA. This will power up to 16 Accessory Controls.

Alan


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tweakophyte* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They make a model that is one step up and has an IR port, if I remember correctly.



I made a change on the Accessory Controls thread a few posts up to clearly identify differences between the models, and specifically identified the IR model.


> Quote:
> I was told the SeeTouch line is really what you should be using for GEs these days.



I would say this is absolutely true.


Even if you arent planning on engraving, the fit and finish is much nicer.


Personally, I have never really liked the slim buttons on the Architectural models.


----------



## DMF

Too bad you can't get a GE with SeeTouch buttons...


----------



## macmedic

To expand on the method Toxarch described in the thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=grafik+eye 


For those of us using Universal Remote RF remotes the IR emitters that come with the MRF-250 (and I assume their other receivers) split in half easily to reveal a much smaller IR diode as pictured below that should fit nicely under the faceplate of the Grafik Eye.

You could even file it down a bit more from the approximately 2.5mm to about 2mm without much trouble.











Hit *refresh* in your browser if you don't see the image


----------



## Tweakophyte

One of the nice things about having a wall station is you can use it to access scenes 5-8, 9-12, or 13-16. As I stated before, I have 2 GE units and 2 wall stations. The wall stations are located at the bottom of the stairs so I can enter the basement, hit two buttons, and light the whole floor. Wall station #1, for the general areas addresses scenes 1-4 for GE #1. On the other hand, the wall station #2, for the HT addresses scenes 5-8, 3 of which are ambient/pre-show scenes which can draw you in (or keep you out) of the HT.


You don't need a wall station to take advantage of additional scenes. You can also use an IR remote to access scenes 5-8. I believe there are codes somewhere.


It gets more fun...

If I wanted I could have GE #1 "listen" to both wall stations, as well as listen to GE#2, while GE#2 only listens to one wall station. By doing that I could hit a scene in the HT and change the whole floor. If I had a remote I could hit scene 5 (for example) in the HT and set the whole floor. Permutations, permutations, permutations...


----------



## cinemascope

As a small addition to the IR reveiver tip that have been detailed by Mac medic and Toxarch, I would also add that when you have the emitter disassembled (see Mac medic's post prior to this) and routed on the front of the GRX as Toxarch posted, you can avoid the bulge under the faceplate by placing a neat strip of good black elec tape (3M Super 33+ is the pros choice, and don't tear here, use scissors for a neat cut) over the emitter head and then pop out the little translucent black circular window in the cover.


Hopefully on the first try you will get the emitter to seat into the hole left by the translucent eye and the cover will sit flush and the black tape over the little bulge of the emitter will fill the hole on the face and you cannot tell that the window is gone.


This may take a minute or two a tweaking to acheive the perfect fit and perfect look, but that's what we do right??


Trust me, this looks great. I have done many this way.


I will get a pic up of a cover I modded like this sometime in the next couple weeks.


----------



## audiblesolutions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you can avoid the bulge under the faceplate by placing a neat strip of good black elec tape (3M Super 33+ is the pros choice, and don't tear here, use scissors for a neat cut) over the emitter head and then pop out the little translucent black circular window in the cover.
> 
> 
> Hopefully on the first try you will get the emitter to seat into the hole left by the translucent eye and the cover will sit flush and the black tape over the little bulge of the emitter will fill the hole on the face and you cannot tell that the window is gone.
> 
> 
> This may take a minute or two a tweaking to acheive the perfect fit and perfect look, but that's what we do right??
> 
> 
> Trust me, this looks great. I have done many this way.
> 
> 
> I will get a pic up of a cover I modded like this sometime in the next couple weeks.



Personally, I prefer to use coax seal in place of tape or glue but to each his own.


Alan


----------



## macmedic

Coax seal looks like a great solution for many things!


For those of you who don't know what it is (I had to Google it) here is the description from Parts Express (and the link to buy it):

*Coax-Seal is a special material which will quickly and effectively seal all types of coaxial fittings of any shape from moisture, water and corrosion. Coax-Seal stays flexible for years thus insuring moisture proof connections. Insures good SWR and long coax life. Coax-Seal also allows you to disconnect and reconnect fittings with the same material by simply re-forming the plastic. Coax-Seal is the only material that will adhere to vinyl and poly vinyl connector outer covers. Coax-Seal is non-toxic, non-corrosive, non-conducting, and has hundreds of uses in electronics. 1/2" x 60". Stays flexible at any temperature.*

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=180-205 


BTW - Parts Express is a pleasure to deal with (and no, I don't work there).


I've learned more on this Forum form guys like audiblesolutions, Cinemascope, Dennis, etc than I have from years of reading trade magazines - Thanks again!


----------



## cinemascope

I use that stuff outdoors quite a bit, but I have never thought to use it in this application...

I bet it would also work well to keep the cover flat and straight if you busted any of the snap mounts.


Actually, I picked up a roll of gaffers tape and use that quite a bit as well, I would think that cutting a thin strip of gaffers tape would probably work very well to keep that emitter lead in place.


Anyone not familiar, It is basically cloth based duct tape, it's black, it sticks better than duct tape, and it's anywhere from $9 to $20 per roll.


It doesn't let go over time like e-tape does (unless it's wrapped, lightly stretching a good tape like Super 33+ by applying tension as you wrap it makes it stick forever).


I will be the first to say that any brand of e-tape on a flat surface is not the best solution.


The e-tape over the emitter works well, because it looks like the window that was removed when it bulges into that hole.


----------



## Stima

I noticed at the very top of this thread several people (including the author) believe the Spacer System won't save any money.


My question is, if I only have 3-4 zones and really only want 3-4 scenes....I would have to spend +600$ even on the bottom end GE as apposed to less than 400$ with the Spacer. (4 dimmers and master control)


Am I missing something about the Spacer System that is going to substantially increase the cost and offset this several hundred dollar difference?


Thx,

Dan


----------



## audiblesolutions

This is a question that should not be in a "definitive" GE thread. Better to begin a new thread or post this question in one of the other Grafik Eye threads extant. Without getting into all the details, there is a lot more electronics in a GE than just an additional 12 scenes, low voltage network, size and type of loads it can dim. There are significant differences in the type and kind of filtering in a GE as opposed as System Spacer, the components by which that dimming is accomplished and the coarseness of the dimming intensity. There is an obvious difference between the aesthetics of the two systems.


Alan


----------



## Stima

Alan,


Thanks for the response. Your reply is good information that (IMHO) kinda does belong in this thread as it directly relates to the advantages of the GE.


In any case...I do really apprciate your help.


Dan


----------



## DMF

Stima, your numbers are questionable. The GRX-2404 (Grafik Eye) is only $380 online (Lutron dealer).


And see my numbers in this thread .


----------



## Stima

DMF,


I am beginning to believe I looked at some of the higher priced e-retailers.







I saw the MSRP's listed and found a couple retailers (Georgia Home Theaters was one) who listed the same price...so I (incorrectly) assumed the MSRP was the going price for GE's.


I appreciate your reference to the price breakdown as well. I believe my system would be slightly simpler (no remote switches or accessories). I figured the price at $67x3 + $105 master + $75 remote = $380. At the time, this was several hundred dollars less than what I found for even the cheapest GE.


In either case, thanks as well for your input.


Dan


PS. Noticed your in Atlanta...as am I.


----------



## joealtus

Some questions about remote controlling the GEs.


The attic conversion I am having done is a roughly an L-shaped room. The back part of the room (the long part of the L) will have a pool table and a poker table, and have 4-5 lighting zones. The front part of the room is slightly lower and will be a front projection area and it will have 4 lighting zones.


If I use a GE to contol the back part of the room and a separate GE to control the front part, will I be able to independently control each GE with my Pronto remote?


----------



## DMF

That's a Pronto question. Ask in the Remotes Controls forum.


----------



## joealtus




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's a Pronto question. Ask in the Remotes Controls forum.



No, it's actually a GE question. I know a pronto can control a single GE. I want to know if two GEs, installed in the same room, can be _independently_ controlled via remote. E.g., I want GE #1 to do a full power off but GE#2 to remain as is -- if I use a remote to do that, will both GEs end up doing a full power off (because they both saw the ir signal for full power off).


I know that if you have two single location Spacer dimmers in the same room, they both will react to a remote control signal. There is no way to have one Spacer ignore signals intended for the other if they are both in the line of sight of the IR signal.


----------



## DMF

This thread is not for general discussion of the GE et al. Start a different thread. If some good info arises from it, we'll incorporate here.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> I know a pronto can control a single GE. I want to know if two GEs, installed in the same room, can be independently controlled via remote. E.g., I want GE #1 to do a full power off but GE#2 to remain as is



Yes, this is possible. In fact, you can link the two GE's together and have them perform as a single unit if you want.


----------



## audiblesolutions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, this is possible. In fact, you can link the two GE's together and have them perform as a single unit if you want.



I disagree with this advice--although it can be done. _The problem with linking together Grafik Eyes without some processor in between is the off button. Press off on linked Grafik Eyes and both turn off. They will not be independent unless you talk to them via serial or with a Homeworks processor._ If you place 2 Grafik Eyes on the same Mux link and fire an IR code or press a button both units will respond. If you use an accessory control and "assign" that control to a GE you may get around that problem with clever scene programming ( such as program scenes 13-16 in one but 9-12 in the other. )


There is only one IR driver in Lutron world. Ok, Spacer has a few different IR codes than Grafik Eyes so maybe 1.5 is a more accurate answer. The only way to separate this problem is the same way you would any device with the same IR code set and that is a zone IR controller. If you want truly independent control you will accomplish that ONLY by using all 16 scenes and programming them differently on each GE, eg., scenes 5-10 on the first and 11-16 on the second.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is not for general discussion of the GE et al. Start a different thread. If some good info arises from it, we'll incorporate here.



I should think that IR control of a GE or how to program a GE or multiple GEs for IR should be part of a "definitive" Grafik Eye thread. It certainly seems more germane than a comparison with System Spacer.


Alan


----------



## DMF

Of course it is. But he asked about a Pronto. You want to cover every remote on this thread?


As I understand it, each GE can be given a separate address on the MUX line, which is how e.g. the Homeworks processor can talk to them separately. *If* that address can be incorporated into the IR command set, then they can be addressed individually (for those functions that incorporate the address).


Hmm. I guess you have a point. The potential command set is defined by Lutron, not by the remote makers.


Where can we find a definition of the GE command set?


----------



## DMF

Btw, the GRX-CIR (ceiling mounted IR remote) claims to be able to address individual GEs. It lives on the MUX line.


----------



## audiblesolutions




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Btw, the GRX-CIR (ceiling mounted IR remote) claims to be able to address individual GEs. It lives on the MUX line.



The IR command set does NOT include the Addressing 1-8. A remote sending a GE IR code is very much like a Tivo IR code. ( Don't go to the multiple IR codes for Tivo because there are but one IR code in the GE world. Send a GE IR code and all units receiving that code respond. ).


You wish to add GRX-CIR and you have hit upon one IR solution. But a zone IR controller would also work but it forces you to go to the extra work of placing an emitter inside the electrical box and inside the GE.


This is a very old com link. Serial control and quasi serial control is what occurs in a Homeworks system ( it mimics the IA serial command protocol ) which is how Homeworks gets around the comm bus limitations of a Grafik Eye bus. Hell, install a Crestron or AMX control system with a GRX-232 ( now referred to as the GRX-IA-232 ) and you can approximate this control. Or use some IR to serial converter box with a serial to MUX link interface. However, if you remain on the MUX link without sending serial commands there are serious limitations as to what you can accomplish if you expect to control multiple units interconnected on the MUX link. To get around this issue, many years ago I used multiple GRX-AVs. The MUX link is a versatile useful addition--and an other reason to prefer a GE over a system spacer in a theater application ( contact closures can be very useful, especially for controlling shades/drapes ) but you will want to take special care when dealing with multiple GEs. The problem is that the more you kludge the system to work as you need the better the idea of a Homeworks processor, or real control system appears. Even with you guys going to E-tailers and ebay this can become a very expensive solution if more than one unit is required.


I do not deal with Prontos but is it not a fancy universal remote little different from a hard coded remote save for its ( useless ) graphical abilities? Do not all of these kinds of remotes (Pronto, URC, Universal Electronics or Radio Shack ) not do the same thing? As in send an IR command to the device? I do not care if it's a Crestron system sending the IR code. As long as that command can be received by multiple units they will all be affected. THE ONLY TIME THIS IS NOT THE CASE IS WHEN YOU BURY AN emitter INSIDE EACH UNIT AND TRANSMIT THE CODE SEPARATELY. Send that code out of a universal remote --which is what you DIYs prefer to do -- and all main units whose receivers receive that code will respond. Send it directly to an emitter buried in the main unit and only that unit will respond. If you have an IR repeater system you will need to use a zone IR system.


No one has covered the arcane method of adding accessory controls to a main unit. It does involve more than setting the dip switches for the scenes that unit will control.


Alan


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Cinemascope ...

You might want to add information on the Partition Control and Radio RA GE and GE Radio RA interface adaptor.


----------



## cinemascope

Joealtus,

Your scenario can be easily solved with the GRX-IRI interface.


Run a MUX link cable from each GRX to the rack, or wherever you have installed your Pronto's base station.


You will be placing an emitter right on the back of this unit INSIDE the box, but since this is an entirely low voltage box, there are no issues in doing this.


The GRX-IRI is one of only two Accessory Controls that allows use of the new Pro-IR commands that allows you to directly control scenes, master raise/lower, and all off to any single GRX on the MUX system, as well as to all GRX units on the MUX system.


The other Accessory control is the SeeTouch SG-PRO , which is also an attractive 4 scene plus all off control with master raise/lower. In comparison with the GRX-IRI that can be accept a stick on emitter, this unit receives line of sight only through it's IR receiver on the face.


These two controls are the ONLY devices that allow this as of today, and this is the best way to get around the situation Alan describes above without relying on an advanced routing scheme from the base station of a powerful remote system like the RTI RP-6 or URC MRF-300 bases. (I am personally not as familiar with Pronto base programming, perhaps someone can elaborate)


The biggest advantage is that if you ever change remotes (and we never do that, do we??) then you will only have to address the GRX-IRI instead of re-creating the entire elaborate prgram in the new system.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cinemascope ...
> 
> You might want to add information on the Partition Control and Radio RA GE and GE Radio RA interface adaptor.



I have not even SEEN a partition control that I can recall.

Leave it to Dennis to give me homework!!


I'm on it.


As for the RadioRa interfaces, I am very familiar with these and I will draft a detailed post and place it later tonight.


--Rick.


----------



## DMF

Hmm. Now that I read between the lines, the GRX-CIR spec doesn't actually say that it can control *discrete* GEs, rather " Selects scenes in just one Control Unit or a group of up to eight Control Units." You could read that as saying that it sends the scene number to everything it's linked to.


It can map the scenes numbers that are in the IR set to those that aren't.


----------



## DMF

I had a long chat with Lutron about how to order the metal finish options and custom engraving (button labels) for seeTouch® wallstations. I believe these procedures apply to the other product lines, too.
The metal finishes are available by special order only. A special order takes about 6 weeks longer to fill.
While it appears from the online document that wallstation special colors are ordered by code (e.g. -QZ for antique bronze), *this is not true* (as a later version of the document supposedly makes clear; I haven't seen it). The color code in a wallstation order may not include a special finish. E.g. SG-4SN-SN... is an invalid code.
Only the faceplate is the special color/finish.¹ "Insert" models use a standard R3 Decora cutout which leaves non-button surface exposed. "Non-insert" models use wallplate cutouts specific to the wallstation - only buttons are exposed. (The Insert models are recommended for multi-gang installations, but it appears to be possible to order Non-insert multi-gang metal plates using the Insert codes.)
To order a special finish wallstation generate two line items, one for the wallstation and the other for the faceplate:
Order the wallstation in the basic color that you want for the buttons and (in the case of Insert models) the insert (e.g. for the metal finishes, Black). The wallstation will come with a single-gang plastic wallplate of that color that is discarded at installation. E.g. to order a -4S Insert wallstation in satin nickel with black buttons, first order SG-4SI-BL-...
Order the special finish wallplate. The ordering code for wallplates is a concatenation of NT + list of Insert codes + Spacing code + Color code. A simplex bright chrome Decora plate is NT-R3-FB-BC. (FB is standard spacing.) A duplex satin nickel Decora plate is NT-R3R3-FB-SN.

Not all wallstations have the same shape cutout. There is a separate doument for the codes to specify non-insert wallplate cutouts but it is not in the general catalog or online. Contact Lutron Tech Support for the appropriate code.
There is a $200 per order "setup charge", even for wallplates that are otherwise standard Claro shapes.
To give an idea of the costs, a simplex special finish wallplate lists at $100. A duplex special finish wallplate lists at $160.
Non-standard Engraving (button text) lists at $70. This is probably per wallstation.
It is possible to change button/insert/wallplate colors after installation. These are the SR- series of kits.
Like the special finishes, non-standard engraving must be ordered as a separate line item in the form of an SR- kit. For example, to order a 4S wallstation with Satin Nickel finish and non-standard button labels:
Code:


Code:


1      SG-4SI-BL-EGN       4S wallstation, Insert-style, Black, numbered buttons
   or  SG-4SN-BL-EGN         non-insert style (the SR kit will change it)
1      NT-R3-FB-SN         Satin Nickel wallplate
1      SR-4SI-BL-NST       custom engraving button kit [enclose engraving form]


These facts are not widely known in Lutron tech and customer support, but the excellent support people will find the answers that they don't have to hand. Thank you Rich and Angela!

Lastly, the special metal finishes LOOK GREAT!









----------------

¹ This may apply only to metal finishes. Other dimmer models including the very similar RadioRA wallstations are shown in the catalog with the insert matching the wallplate color (e.g. p.172, p.236).


----------



## audiblesolutions

The metal finishes do look great but I would caution that if you expect to order a metal finish for the main unit the metal cover may act as heat sinks and be very hot to the touch--as in 110-120F. I have never ordered a metal finish for a Grafik Eye but I have for many a Vario. And those Varios were all very hot to the touch. If you are restricting you metal cover plates to accessory controls this will be of no concern. I wonder if the Architrave can be special ordered with blue or green leds as it can with Homeworks. The Architrave with blue leds is so coooool.


Alan


----------



## DMF

I have a satin nickel GE mounted. Still waiting for the lumenaires. I'll report on temperatures when I observe some.











I like the look of Architrave too, but my wallstations need to mount in duplex.


----------



## theblueline

Thanks for the great info on the Grafik Eye, the suggestion of the mason box will save me some headaches later. I am just getting ready to drywall and it would have been a pain to find out the 3 gang plastic box I have installed is too small.


I have a 3000 series 3 zone Grafik Eye that I will be installing in the room. I know the GE will take dimming commands from a remote. However I was wondering if the remote has to be directly pointed at the unit for it to work. My GE will be at a 90 degree angle from the seating postions. I was hoping to use a good Harmony remote or the like to run my audio/video equipment and use the macros to dim the lights while starting the movies. If the remote is pointed towards the front of the room at the AV stuff will it still be able to dim the lights, or is line of site a must with the built in IR of the GE.


I have read about IR repeaters. Are these special or specific to Lutron and GE or are there 3rd party vendors that make these for the GE. My wiring skills are pretty basic. Right now the GE is wired with one power line into the box, a common neutral for the GE and then each zone running out to the cans. Is an IR repeater (or I've also read they might be called "IR blasters") something I need and is it difficult to install?


Thanks for all the great info. I'm just finishing up insulation of the room and still have time to correct anything I overlooked.


----------



## DMF

Just so it doesn't get lost, thanks to arjo-reich here is the link to the 2005 NEC online.


You won't be able to copy or print it. They still want you to buy a copy. But it is useful to have an up to date copy that you can't lose.


----------



## garykagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theblueline* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the great info on the Grafik Eye, the suggestion of the mason box will save me some headaches later. I am just getting ready to drywall and it would have been a pain to find out the 3 gang plastic box I have installed is too small.
> 
> 
> I have a 3000 series 3 zone Grafik Eye that I will be installing in the room. I know the GE will take dimming commands from a remote. However I was wondering if the remote has to be directly pointed at the unit for it to work. My GE will be at a 90 degree angle from the seating postions. I was hoping to use a good Harmony remote or the like to run my audio/video equipment and use the macros to dim the lights while starting the movies. If the remote is pointed towards the front of the room at the AV stuff will it still be able to dim the lights, or is line of site a must with the built in IR of the GE.
> 
> 
> I have read about IR repeaters. Are these special or specific to Lutron and GE or are there 3rd party vendors that make these for the GE. My wiring skills are pretty basic. Right now the GE is wired with one power line into the box, a common neutral for the GE and then each zone running out to the cans. Is an IR repeater (or I've also read they might be called "IR blasters") something I need and is it difficult to install?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the great info. I'm just finishing up insulation of the room and still have time to correct anything I overlooked.



I would like to know the answer to this as well - I also want to control my lights with sceens from the Grafik eye and all my rack A/V from the same remote. I'm guessing you will need a IR repeater to do this.


gary


----------



## DMF

There are a couple of Lutron accessories - notably GRX-CIR - that relay commands to the GE using the data link.


You can also use IR repeaters, but it's tricky to get the emitter inside the GE cover. There are a couple of recent threads on this. Use Search.


----------



## garykagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are a couple of Lutron accessories - notably GRX-CIR - that relay commands to the GE using the data link.
> 
> 
> You can also use IR repeaters, but it's tricky to get the emitter inside the GE cover. There are a couple of recent threads on this. Use Search.



If I put the Grafik Eye in the front of the theater, there is no need for an emitter inside the cover - right? Any remote will trigger the Grafik eye with line of sight to resolve this.


Gary


----------



## DMF

In general, yes. But check the IR photometrics in the GE Specs document. There's a surprisingly narrow angle of incidence.


----------



## garykagan

OK will do. Looks like I will run a emmitter to the grafik eye anyway since the walls are open (just in case). never hurts to be prepared.


thanks for the info,


gary


----------



## HendersonD

There is one part in this thread I am curious about"


"You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO."


I will be installing a motorized shade to cover a window and wanted to be able to control this via my remote. I thought about using one of the zones on a Graffik Eye to do this (just open or closed).


What are the better ways you elude to?


Dave


----------



## DMF

I was a little mystified about reference to the "switch mode" so I did some research:


When you set up a zone in the GE, you enter load type. (The type defaults to Incandescent/MLV so it's rarely changed.) Two options are NON-DIM, where the GE simply acts as a switch. Any scheduled output turns the zone ON; no output turns it OFF.


Note: These are not momentary ONs. The circuit is powered so long as the zone is ON at any level.


----------



## Tedd

Any idea if this also an option with a flourescent light (or in my case, a movie marque)? I'd like the GE to turn the marquee on/off as per scene.


----------



## DMF

Yes, but there's this note:



> Quote:
> ■ Fluorescent non-dim loads with electronic or magnetic ballast must use: a GRX-TVI interface ... or ... HP 2*4*6 ...


----------



## DMF

When using the Lutron GRX-CBL-346S Class 2/PELV cable to wire accessory controls, there is a jacketless 24 AWG drain wire in the shielded bundle. This wire is not shown in any of the wiring diagrams, so what to do with it? After receiving two apparently incomplete answers (one from Lutron Tech Support) I stumbled across this on p.5 of the Installer's Guide for Models MR and IA, under 'Installing Accessory Controls, Mounting':


> Quote:
> *3.* Connect two ... pairs for Class 2/PELV wiring (daisy-chain between stations).
> 
> 
> If shielded wire is used, the drain wire must also be daisy-chained. *Do not* connect drain wire to earth/ground or Accessory Control (unless a "D" terminal is present).


----------



## garykagan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.
> 
> 
> To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.



I just called a place to find out about programming the 3506. They are not aware of this GRX-PRG needed to program the 3506. They obviously don't know what they are selling and are useless.


Do you have any link to info on this GRX-PRG? What kind of hardware is this? If this is true and the cost of purchasing the 3506 is an additional $800, then it makes more sense to program at the unit with the 3106.


thanks for any info DMF,


Gary


----------



## orbitzboy

GaryKagan,


The GRX-PRG is an external box tha add's RS-232 control & timer functions.


BE CAREFUL! I told my installer I wanted to control the system via RS-232 and he installed a RS-232 add on, not the PRG. Only the PRG can control individual zones- the standard RS-232 controller is limited to controlling scene's only.


Here's a link to the basic documentation: documentation 


control is very easy, and it uses the same commands as the standard rs-232, plus new commands to set the timer functions and individual zone control.


----------



## garykagan

Thanks, looks like I will stick with the 3106, program scenes at the unit and call it a day. Keeps it in budget that way...


thanks all,


Gary


----------



## macmedic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orbitzboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> GaryKagan,
> 
> BE CAREFUL! I told my installer I wanted to control the system via RS-232 and he installed a RS-232 add on, not the PRG. Only the PRG can control individual zones- the standard RS-232 controller is limited to controlling scene's only.



Does one need the GRX-PRG to set the lighting in 1% increments or just for timed events and individual zone control?


Does anyone know (or know of a chart or website that compares) the features of the GRX-PRG vs. the GRX-IA-232 ?


----------



## DMF

The Spec Sheet PDFs of each list the features.


The Liaison software is (obviously) designed to work with the -PRG, but the -232 command set seems to be a subset, so it might work too. If I get some time today I'm going to try it.


Only way to tell for sure on the 1% control is to look at the -232 command set. (See Lutron tech page for that document.)


----------



## orbitzboy

This PDF show's the commands available to both the RS232 & the PRG.


You can make your own decision if the -232 command set is enough. It wasn't for me.

http://www.vimco.com/onespec/applica...3k4k_RS232.pdf


----------



## DMF

Use this one on the Lutron web site. The one on the vimco site is 1998 vintage.


I tried to talk to the -232, but of all the orphan wall warts, I don't have a single 12VDC. But I did play with the Liaison application. It doesn't seem to want to talk to a -232, or do much of anything with a 3100 series GE. It may not be useful for this.


----------



## DMF

Okay, got the -232 powered and talking via the Liason software's Terminal Mode. No devices hooked in, so I can't programmatically change scenes (e.g.). It understands NONE of the -PRG commands, returning errors on all.


The -232 parts of the command set is pretty limited. You can:
report or set the scene on a control unit,
sequence through scene groups (1-4 or 5-16, no combos),
raise or lower a specific zone (NOT set X intensity, just Start/Stop Lowering or Raising),
get the firmware version.

That's all!


Frankly, I don't find it useful for a small installation.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Let me muck up the waters a bit ...

The Lutron PRG is $800 ... you're going to get a $1000 pronto system (ok, maybe a bit less).

You can get a Crestron ST-LT for $600, a Crestron CP2 for $800 ... now all you need is a touch panel and you can control your entire HT system and eventually integrate HVAC and whole house functions over time. Hummmm


----------



## DMF

Darn you, Erskine!


----------



## cinemascope

I don't see how the savings of $50 or so of the GRX-232 vs. the GRX-PRG is that big of a deal, but if you don't care about the astronomical clock, save the money.


DMF, using Liason is not really intended for our market... and a GRX-232 or GRX-PRG will not work with a 3100 series GRX.


The real value is to be able to use the GRX-232 (or GRX-PRG) to allow a 3500 series GRX to accept serial commands from a controller like the ones commonly used in theater and whole house installs from AMX, Crestron, and RTI.


Even with a modestly priced RTI RP-6, you can send commands for any combination of zones from one to all to dim to any percentage from 1% to 99% over any duration from 1 second to


I agree with Dennis that pushing the state of the art with GRX is a little short sighted compared to getting started with a real control system (like AMX or Crestron) and a real lighting control system (like Lutron HomeWorks Interactive).


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HendersonD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is one part in this thread I am curious about"
> 
> 
> "You can also use a zone in switch mode as a programmabe relay to trigger fans, window shades, screens, lifts,etc., although there are better ways to achieve this IMO."
> 
> 
> I will be installing a motorized shade to cover a window and wanted to be able to control this via my remote. I thought about using one of the zones on a Graffik Eye to do this (just open or closed).
> 
> 
> What are the better ways you elude to?
> 
> 
> Dave



You can implement contact closures and voltage triggers more effectively through just about any level of automation system that can be triggered by other sources and not just as a part of lighting scenes.


Models from Xantech & RDL Labs are among the reasonably priced solutions that are pretty easy to implement with any level of remote.


AMX and Crestron have relays directly on the controllers for anyone at that level.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... a GRX-232 ... will not work with a 3100 series GRX.



The Lutron GRX-RS232 docs disagree with you.







They claim compatibility with "Grafik Eye 3000 and 4000 Series Control Units", and the wiring diagram (p.4) shows it connected to a 3103. I could hook mine up and try it if you really want...


Otherwise, I see the point about using a real control system. I really only purchased this to play with, and now see what I have learned.











Btw, I don't get your point about the relative cost of the -232 and the -PRG. I picked up the -232 for about $150. Cheapest I've seen the -PRG is almost $800 (although I haven't priced it through my wholesaler). Can it be had for $200 or so?


----------



## cinemascope

The comment was based on a retail price of $750 for the GRX-232 in Lutron's price sheet.


I don't know if there has been a massive price shift or if you benefitted from some sort of closeout, but even dealer and distributor pricing is significantly higher than what you paid.


Personally, I would love to buy a GRX-232 for $150....


The compatibility with the 3100 series is not guaranteed, but it may work.


You certainly cannot access 1% dimming increments or zone specific dimming, because the 3100 will not support these functions at all.


If it works at all, it will likely be a carbon copy of the IR control, and you may be able to access status through the GRX-232 to a touchscreen if that's the way you use it.


The 3500 series will definitely allow status with a GRX-232.


----------



## rmurto

I picked up my GRX-3106 during fixture sales for the Ultimate Electronics closures in Dallas. The 3106 was linked to a GRX-232 which I picked up as well. Haven't hooked them up yet, but given that UE had it hooked up this way, and documentation indicates so, the -232 should be compatible with the 3100 series. I have a small HT I am buidling (13x18). Trying to figure out if I really have a use for the GRX-232.


Regards,

Bob


----------



## orbitzboy

Will your HT be PC controlled?


If so, serial communication is great for automating the process.

5 minute warning flashes the lights on a zone or two

Starting the movie turns off lights

Pausing the movie brings up a low-light scene.

stopping the movie brings up the house lights, etc...


I've set up my home theater intro video to include a lighting demonstration (pointing out the speaker's, bringing up the star field, flashing lights on a lightning strike etc...).


IMHO it adds a level of professioinalism that differentiates the experience.


----------



## PAD

My NTGRX-4S-IV wall unit always has all 4 LED's lit. From reading the 3106 manual, it appears that only the scene selected should be lit.


Do I need the 3106 to be set to A-, 5 and 6 to be in the up position with the wall unit set to 5 and 6 in the down position?


Come to think of it, the wall unit has never really indicated it communicates with the 3106, although I can select a button there and program it at the 3106. Sounds like they are on different scenes.


And a real bugger is the universal remote codes don't seem to trigger anything other than a zone 5 on the 3106.


Why don't one of you come over to program these for me. The manual is not much help after the 10th reading. argh


----------



## cinemascope

With gas prices the way they are, a service call to Michigan could cost a pretty penny, let's see if we can walk you though this...


I don't like to assume anything, but for this I will assume that you have used the correct MUX cable between the NT-GRX-4S Wallstation and the GRX and that the connections were made according to the instructions in the Installation Guides...


It sounds like your issues revolve around addressing your Wallstation and getting it to communicate to the GRX.


Here is the description for how to accomplish this in straightforward language:

*Step One: Address the Wallstation*

If the dipswitches 1-4 on the NT-GRX-4S are all up, that means you are addressing that wall control as "location #1". If you only have one wallstation, then this is what you want.

_(If you have multiple wallstations connected to the GRX, assign them each their own location number by referencing the dipswitch settings on page 4 of the GRX Wallstation Installation Guide)_
http://www.lutron.com/instructions/030814a.pdf .

*Step Two: Address the GRX*

Put the GRX into setup mode by pressing the "Scene 1" and "Off" buttons simultaneously for 3-4 seconds.


Flip up the cover and scroll through the Setup modes with the arrows in the FADE box, watching the readout on the LED window which is also in the FADE box.

Once it reads "A-", you are at the Address menu. (if it reads Sd, Sc, LS, or LC, keep scrolling up or down with the FADE arows)


To take it out of default A- mode ad assign and dedicated address, press the "master up" arrow button which is just to the right of the LED display to set it to A1, A2, A3, etc. (do NOT press the the FADE arrow buttons directly below the LED display, as you will be scrolling through Setup options again)


Take the GRX out of setup mode by pressing the same combination you used to put it into setup mode.

*Step Three: Initialize Communication between the GRX and the Wallstation(s)*

Now, go to the NT-RX and put it into "talk" mode by pressing the scene 1 ad scene 4 buttons simultaneously for 3-4 seconds.


When it is in "Talk" mode, press the scene 1 button on the GRX (make sure the GRX is NOT in setup mode before you start this process)

Pressing the Scene 1 button tells the GRX to "Listen" to the Wallstation(s) that are in "Talk" mode at that time.


Take the NT-GRX-4S out of "Talk" mode using the same button press combination you used to put it into "Talk" mode.

*Setting the scenes for the Wallstation to control*

If dipswitches 5 and 6 on the NT-GRX-4S are both up, then your NT-GRX-4S will mimic the front panel buttons on the GRX and they will both control Scenes 1-4 that you have programmed into the GRX.

_(If you have more scenes programmed in the GRX, and you would like the NT-GRX-4S to control Scenes 5-8, 9-12, or 13-16 instead of 1-4, then you can adjust the dipswitch settings according to the chart at the top of page 5 of the Grafik Eye Wallstation Installation Guide._


You are done.


----------



## PAD

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Everything worked except the 3106 needed to stay at A-, not A1.


I even reprogrammed my MX700 to work now.


Now onto macros!


----------



## cinemascope

I'm glad it worked out for you.


About the A- vs. A1 setting, I was under the impression that we always had to address every GRX with a unique A(*) address when using any accessory controls.


As they say, "if it ain't broke..."


----------



## DMF

Lutron Tech assures me that the Grafik RA control units are identical to the 3500 series Grafik Eye control units, except with a RF receiver. They even retain IR receiver and are programmable through the GRX-PRG module.


RA-GRX-6... is the equivalent of the GRX-IA-6... (a.k.a. GRX-3506...). MSRP is about $1250, not too much more than the 3506.


There is an interface between RadioRA and existing Grafik Eye - RA-GRXI-.. - that may accomplish the same thing. Anyone used one?


----------



## audiblesolutions

You only need to address a GE if more than one is in the system. If there is but one GE you do not need to assign it a number to address an accessary control.


I have used the GE Radio Ra Interface. Once upon a time it was the only way to add a GE to a Radio Ra system. Moreover, each GE, despite the fact that it can control up to 6 loads is considered one device on a Radio Ra system. Considering that you can only have 32 dimmers on a Radio Ra system this can be a convenient back door to controlling more loads then one might think. I just cannot understand what you wish to accomplish with the RA-GRXI.


I would never connect a motor to a GE. Inductive loads and triacs do not mix. You could use the GE to throw the coil on a relay which controls the shade/drape motor. Or you could use the accessary relay boxes like the GRX-AV.


Alan


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiblesolutions* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just cannot understand what you wish to accomplish with the RA-GRXI.



The GE is behind the seating. I can install an IR pickup like GRX-CIR in front of the seating for use with the universal remote. Or I can introduce RadioRA to accomplish the same thing using an RF remote. RadioRA also lets me add some of the features of a whole-home system like drive-up activation.


Unfortunately, it looks like the RA-GRXI wants to occupy a box in the living space rather than in the attic with the rest of the GE accessory controls - 104°F max temp. The RA-GRX-n doesn't have that problem. Can you confirm that the RA-GRX-n is otherwise equivalent to (GRX-IA + RA-GRXI)?


----------



## emillika

Hi All!


I have a 3106 (GRX-MR-6) and a GRX-rs232 that I am trying to send some rs232 commands from my laptop. I see LED1 on the GRX-232 is blinking and not solid. Might this mean I don't have sufficient power? I don't have a mulit-meter handy.


EDIT: I addressed the unit with address A1 and now when I change scenes on the GE I see the result in Hyper Terminal. I can not yet figure out what format to send commands from Hyper Terminal. Any advice?


EDIT2: I had flow control set to Hardware. Once I turned this off I was able to control the GE from Hyper Term.


----------



## DMF

Right. The Lutron RS-232 cable that comes with the accessories does wire DTR/CTS, but the unit never uses them. If your port does it will wait forever.


----------



## dell4200gambler

I'm having a devil of a time finding a masonry box locally - lowes, home depot, menards, nobody seems to have one anywhere near as deep as what is recommended in the thread (3.5"). Can anyone recommend an online retailer as I haven't found a hit online either....


----------



## Stima

I had the same trouble as you. My suggestion is to look up a local Electrical supplier such as Grainger. I found a nice 4gang heavy duty metal (very deep) box for 22$ and talked him down to 15$. Still expensive, but was the best I could do. If you can't find anyone local, I would be happy to stop by that shop and pick one up for you. Just email me. stima at aol.com


----------



## DMF

 The first hit googling 'Raco masonry box' found the Raco 698.


I got mine at a local electrical supply house.


----------



## cinemascope

Call your local electrical supply house to see if they carry RACO 3.5" deep masonry boxes, and also to see if they allow walk-in cash sales at the counter.


Some places are trade only, so double check if they allow walk-in cash sales.


----------



## dell4200gambler

Thanks for the info guys. Stima, thanks for the offer. DMF, no idea how I missed that when I googled, guess I checked hits 2 through 999 which had nothing to do with a masonry box!  Cinemascope and all, I called a few supply houses and finally gave up and went with googled hit number one. Now I can move on to more pressing duties (like figuring out how to integrate this grafik eye with my htpc's)!


----------



## emillika

dell4200gambler... not sure if you are using a frontend on your HTPC yet but Dean from Charmed Quark has a driver for the GE rs232 controller written that works quite well.


----------



## dell4200gambler

emillika, tell me more. I saw a post early on in this thread about controlling the GE with an HTPC but haven't found any detailed info yet (to busy with construction of the HT at the moment I guess). I assume at a minimum the rs-232 controller is required. Some pricey specialized software on top of that as well? A bear to configure and maintain? Thanks in advance!


----------



## DMF

GRX-RS232 doesn't do much except change the zone dimmer levels. You need GRX-PRG for PC control. Be prepared to spend the cost of a laptop for it.


----------



## dell4200gambler

Finally received my masonry box and got it mounted, now I'm trying to settle on a GE. Can someone give me a quick breakdown on what the 3504 gives me over the 3104? Do I get PC control with this one or would it still require the GRX-PRG? Thanks in advance.


----------



## cinemascope

Taken from page 1 of this thread...


The 3500 series is programmable with 1% resolution in dimming steps, vs. @6-7% steps on the 2400 and 3100 series.


The same advanced IR control as the 3100 series, except the raise and lower have more steps in the resolution.


The 3500 series adds the capability of using the RS-232 interfaces which adds real time feedback to a control system as well as direct communication dimming w/out establishing presets. (ie: directly dimming one load only to modify an existing scene)


As DMF learned, the GRX-232 (and presumably the GRX-PRG) will also work with the 3100 series through the MUX link, but it only duplicates the IR features.


You will still need a GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to control ANY Grafik Eye from your PC.

The 3500 series just has more control.


----------



## DMF

Haven't tried the -PRG with a 3100, but since the 3100 only understands the command set of the -RS232, there's really not much point.










As I've said before here, I don't see that the -RS232 has much use in a home environment. It doesn't allow you to 'program' the GE as you might understand it (and Lutron's Liaison s/w doesn't work with it).


So leaving out the -RS232, here's the equation: If you don't plan on programming the GE, then a 3100 is fine. If you do, then a 3500 is required (for about an extra $100 street), but you will also have to spend about the same again for a -PRG to go with it.


----------



## bgarner

Good day,


I currently am setting up the Grafik Eye 3100 MR 4-zone controller with the accessory dimmer NT-GRX-1S. The Grafix Eye seems to work fine, but when I attach the accessory dimmer, it is not working. I had my electrician set it up, but it seems that he is confused with the whole thing.


Basically, when I press the accessory button, it saves the current configuration under Scene 1. It doesn't load or shut off Scene 1, which is wierd. I read this thread and it seems that no one else has run into this problem. Also, although this home is rather new, I can't rewire it, so I have to use something that works with retrofit wiring. Where the accessory dimmer is installed, there are 3 wires, Black, White, Red, yet the accessory dimmer only has Black and Blue.


Can someone offer any guidance on what we may be doing wrong? I looked at the instructions that came with the unit and the instructions I was able to download from Lutron, and both are different, yet confusing. They seem to show the accessory dimmer connecting to a 2 way switch in both instances and also they show it using the SSA connection on the actual dimmer.


Any help is appreciated.


Thanks,


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bgarner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where the accessory dimmer is installed, there are 3 wires, Black, White, Red, yet the accessory dimmer only has Black and Blue.
> 
> 
> Can someone offer any guidance on what we may be doing wrong? I looked at the instructions that came with the unit and the instructions I was able to download from Lutron, and both are different, yet confusing.



Follow these instructions, and remember the series of your GRX.

GRX-3100 would be the same as a GRX-MR.


This device was INTENDED to be used in retrofits in the instance where a secondary location was wired for 3-way control to traditional switches.


This is supposed to work for exatly what you have...


As far as the multiple instructions, you may have seen the other diagram for the 4000 series, which has dedicated SSA in and out terminals so you do not have to tie to the hot lead.


Use the diagram at the top of page 3 of this document.
http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/ntgrx-1s.pdf 



> Quote:
> They seem to show the accessory dimmer connecting to a 2 way switch in both instances and also they show it using the SSA connection on the actual dimmer.
> 
> 
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks,



What?? I don't know what the "2-way switch" reference is about...


The fact that is does SOMETHING would lead me to believe that it is hooked up ciorrectly, but PLEASE RE-CHECK THE WIRING.


If there is a wiring problem, I would bet that you are somehow mis-using the carrier for the 3-way circuit that was already wired between your boxes.


Turn off the power to the circuit and do some continuity testing to verify that the wires you are using are what you think they are.


Even though I would like you and/or the electrician to double check your wiring anyway, it sounds like the GRX may be in programming mode while you are trying to operate it.


----------



## bgarner

Good day Cinemascipe,


Thanks for the tip. As you suggested I looked at the .pdf link that you sent, checked my wiring and changed the blue wire to tie into the SSA connection. Now everything works fine. Part of the problem is that my electrician doesn't seem to be the sharpest pencil in the pack, and couldn't understand the instructions at all.


Again, thanks for your help!


----------



## cinemascope

You are welcome, that is why I post here.


Just curious, but what WAS it conected to??


----------



## Philip100

This is a wonderful thread....however, we plan to install the above lighting control system. Is there a similar thread on AVS which provides great info on RadioRA?


Phil


----------



## DMF

[redacted]


----------



## cinemascope

There have been some good threads on Radio Ra in the automation forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36 


Try some searches for Lutron to see them, and post any additional Ra questions there...

A lot of the people who created and contributed to this thread watch that section as well.


----------



## ScottJ0007

I have a wiring question...


Due to local code requirements, I am going to have to add a power booster interface (NGRX-PB) to my Grafik Eye. Regardless of actual load, my city will only allow eight fixtures on a 15 amp circuit or ten fixtures on a 20 amp circuit. Every outlet, light socket, recessed light can, etc. counts as a fixture. Since I will have nine recessed lights cans and 4 sconces on my Grafik Eye, this puts me over the 10 fixture limit so I am going to put one of the zones on a power booster.


I'm using the two-box wiring method. I've used the original diagram posted by V10EATR and made some modifications to his drawing to show how I plan to wire the power interface. Can someone who has done this before verify that my drawing looks correct?


----------



## DMF

Looks good to me.


----------



## ebr

I just discovered that the recessed can housings I purchased for my new room have electronic transformers in them. Is it true that I will need an ELVI to connect them to my Grafik Eye 3106? If so, do I need a separate ELVI for each zone that is connected to these types of lights?


Thanks for any help.


[Edit] Nevermind. I called the Lutron hotline (which, I was very impressed with BTW - got a very nice and helpful person at midnight no less) and they told me I probably will need the ELVI. Unfortunately, that is probably more expensive than buying new cans so I may just need to switch them out.


Do any of you people that have the standard 4" type cans have problems with the lights buzzing or humming when you dim them?


----------



## cinemascope

The standard 4" cans that are easiest to integrate with GrafikEyes are line voltage models rated for use with 120VAC PAR20 or PAR16 50W reflectorized halogen lights... no transformers needed and no special dimmers or modules are needed...


Also, 120VAC halogens are a great choice because they keep a consistent color when dimmed, vs. incandescent lighting which will appear more and more yellowish color the more they are dimmed. Color temperature of the lighting _at it's dimmed levels_ is very important when watching a high performance projection system.


This occurs because the filament in an incandescent bulb does not have enough time to fully illuminate when the bulb is turned off hundreds of times per second by the dimmer.


----------



## ebr

Does anyone know how the light output of a 4" PAR20 halogen compares to that of the MR16 halogens?


Seven MR16 50 watters lit up my last room like a football stadium, but I've seen posts that imply the 4" cans don't do as good of a job...


----------



## Tweakophyte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do any of you people that have the standard 4" type cans have problems with the lights buzzing or humming when you dim them?



I have 6- 130v bulbs in my cans and do not have any problems with buzzing. I believe the 130V bulbs have a thicker filament in them. On the other hand, the bulbs I have in my sconces can be moody at times. These are 60W Phillips bulbs that have the "natural light". I've had more sucess with them than then GE version. When I buy bulbs I shake them and listen to the filament. If it jingles it will hum when dimmed.


PS Yes, that was me with my ear to the bulbs in the lighting section of HT


----------



## ebr

Good to hear, Tweak. Thanks.


What type of bulb are you using in the cans? Par 20, Par 30, what?


----------



## SothothYog

Hopefully I won't get flamed for asking, but I can't find this in the forums...


Anyone got any pictures of the Grafilk Eye control panel in the color selection you can choose from? The Lutron web site only lists them.


I'm putting in a six zone system, and I'm thinking about black casing. Anyone have this in their set up?


Cheers


SY


----------



## GREENGA

You could go to your Lutron Distributor and ask for one of the Lutron Catalogs. The catalog will have all of the colors displayed and listed; and the colors are pretty close to the real thing.


I think it's called "Lutron - Residential Lighting Controls Catalog". It's about 1/2" - 3/4" thick.


HTH


Oh, you may even be able to get Lutron to send one out to you. Lutron's pricing may be a bit high, but I have never, personally, known them to fall down in the customer service area.


----------



## funlvr1965

anyone know where I can get a real good deal on a 3104 grafik eye? best price ive gotten so far is about $541.00


----------



## JaserLet

I am almost ready to pull the pin and go with a Grafik Eye system for my home theater. It seems to be the most reliable way to do these sorts of things. However I am tempted to go for more than just a 4-zone for the theater itself. Since my home theater is actually a portion of the basement and has no distinct doorway I am thinking of running all of the open living areas of the basement (the family/theater area, the fireplace room area and the stairway landing area) from a Grafik Eye system. But this will probably require more than 6 zones...


Can I use two 4-zone Grafik Eye systems, one for the theater area, and one for the rest of the basement... and link them together so some scenes modify all 8 zones instead of just the 4 from that controller? I would like to put a SeeTouch upstairs at the top of the stairs so I can turn the basement lights on to a certain scene before walking down the steps. So maybe my exact quesion is this ---- what are the limitations of having two 4-zone GE systems + 1 SeeTouch all linked together?


----------



## funlvr1965

what youre asking seems possible, the grafik eye system is pretty expandable I would check with lutron before purchasing anything, some members here seem to be pretty experienced also, I will be putting my order in for a 4 zone system tomorrow, my theater is a dedicated room so no need for more than that, low voltage 2 button backlit switch at the top of the stairs and a lutron 4 scene remote as a backup to my nevo sl touch screen remote


----------



## Tweakophyte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JaserLet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am almost ready to pull the pin and go with a Grafik Eye system for my home theater. It seems to be the most reliable way to do these sorts of things. However I am tempted to go for more than just a 4-zone for the theater itself. Since my home theater is actually a portion of the basement and has no distinct doorway I am thinking of running all of the open living areas of the basement (the family/theater area, the fireplace room area and the stairway landing area) from a Grafik Eye system. But this will probably require more than 6 zones...
> 
> 
> Can I use two 4-zone Grafik Eye systems, one for the theater area, and one for the rest of the basement... and link them together so some scenes modify all 8 zones instead of just the 4 from that controller? I would like to put a SeeTouch upstairs at the top of the stairs so I can turn the basement lights on to a certain scene before walking down the steps. So maybe my exact quesion is this ---- what are the limitations of having two 4-zone GE systems + 1 SeeTouch all linked together?



You can tell each GE to "listen" to the seetouch panel. That panel should probably be for scenes 5-8 (or 9-12, etc.), and that grouping is set via a dip-switch. You can have one GE listen to the other as well. The problem is it will always listen to it and since you'll be controlling it from one GE, it will push scenes 1-4, and possibly 5-8 (via a remote).


What might be better is to get two seetouch panels. Put one at the bottom of the stairs and have all GEs listen to it for scenes 5-8. If you like you can have redundant scenes. When you go down stairs you can turn them all off, and you can also have regular scenes for the rest of the room trigger some kind of entrance scene for your HT. Put another in yout HT and have only your outer-room GE listen to it. By the way, when you wire these you daisy chain them all together, so you can figure out your combinations later.


Make sense?


I have a similar set-up, but both of my seetouch panels are at the bottom of the stair. One ST controls scenes 1-4 of the outer rooms, and the other controls scenes 5-8 in the HT. Since the kids (ages 1-3) like to go down and hit the buttons, I have it set up so the HT goes into ambience mode for the buttons they like.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *funlvr1965* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> anyone know where I can get a real good deal on a 3104 grafik eye? best price ive gotten so far is about $541.00



That is actually a KILLER deal... You do know that they retail at $850, right??


----------



## funlvr1965

yes I do and I placed my order for the 3104 yesterday with my lutron dealer and actually got it for $ 525.00 also placed and order for 8 scene remote and lvoltage 2 button backlit remote... and masonary box...total $ 812.00..... sweett!!!!


----------



## DMF

Well, I hate to say it, but that's almost $300 for two remotes and a $15 box. (Or was it one remote and a wallstation?) Or are you in one of those 8% sales tax states?


Best I've seen on the 3104 is $500, though, so you did well there.


----------



## funlvr1965




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I hate to say it, but that's almost $300 for two remotes and a $15 box. (Or was it one remote and a wallstation?) Or are you in one of those 8% sales tax states?
> 
> 
> Best I've seen on the 3104 is $500, though, so you did well there.




It was for one 8 scene remote and one wallstation, doesnt seem to be any big discount on the remotes, I could have saved on a 4 scene remote but my wife said I should get the 8 scene remote, heres the breakdown


grafik eye 3104 4 zone $525.00

masonary box $4.30

2 button seetouch wallstation $158.00

8 scene remote $125.00


just picked everything up today and a friend of mine is an electrician and is going to wire it up for me this weeknend, best part is hes going to do it for FREEEEE!!!!


----------



## DMF

Before you get too happy, find cable that will connect the wallstation to the GE. You want the -346S. See attached.

 

cables_nonplenum.pdf 80.181640625k . file


----------



## funlvr1965

my electrician says he has this cable on his truck


----------



## funlvr1965

well my electrician has just shown up so we are starting the installation of the 3104 and the seetouch 2 button pad, since the wiring for one one of the zones is seperate from the rest that will have to be pulled into the grafik eye, there will be some rewiring involved to get it there


----------



## funlvr1965

well the install of the grafik eye 3104 & 2 button touchpad is complete and my electrcian did a great job, this was his first grafik eye that he had installed, the system works great and I will experiment with some programming when I get some free time, for now im just using the default scene settings, I will also post some pics, thanks for all who provided helpful tips and gotchas to watch out for


----------



## funlvr1965

here are some pics from the install of the grafikeye 3104 which was completed yesterday (saturday) including the old x-10 lightswitches, there was a lot more to the installation than what the pics show but you get the idea...install was about 6 hours and was a free install, he would just like to sit in the berklines and watch a movie....


----------



## robcaavs

(I hope it's ok to post here)


Due to a mistake on my electrician's part (I had ordered two 3506), I ended up with 2 Lutron Grafik eyes model 3106, that I cannot use in my system. Can't return without losing too much money (Lutron return policies on open boxes are pretty painful).


Before putting them for sale on eBay, I thought that someone here might be interested. If you live in the Seattle area and are looking for one or two 3106 (perfectly working, with all the manuals), please send me a PM


----------



## Stima

Ygpm


----------



## DMF

Rob, why can't you use them? Do you have a GRX-PRG?


(And no, you shouldn't post for-sale offers here.)


----------



## robcaavs

Yep, I have a GRX-PRG, and will integrate the 2 3506 as part of my home automation (mostly based on Insteon products, with some help from the Apex Destiny 6100 alarm system)... I just have, oh, roughly half a million lines of code to write to make it all work 


Apologies for the abuse...


----------



## redsing

Could someone tell me if I can use a 3506 bought in the US in an installation in the UK?


----------



## DMF

Not a U.S-model 3506. You have 220V mains, right? With 50Hz AC? We use 110V 60Hz. And I think UK requires an integral box so that the hots aren't exposed.


There is a code that gets appended to the full model number that specifies a UK version. Check the Lutron web site.


----------



## movieguy2001

Anyone know where I can get the standard 3506 faceplate with the white/translucent front? I think the model number would be GRX-3105-T-WH.


Just looking for an on-line dealer that might be able to help.


----------



## DMF

You want the faceplate or the whole unit?


----------



## movieguy2001

Just the faceplate.


----------



## DMF

Contact Lutron directly. Be prepared to bend over.


----------



## vfrjim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Contact Lutron directly. Be prepared to bend over.



Is the price that bad? I too would like to change mine.


----------



## BillW

Movieguy,

I will have a white on white 3106 plate in a couple of weeks. I end up with extras after the engraving is done. If you can wait that long?


----------



## movieguy2001

BillW - you haev a PM. Thanks.


----------



## cinemascope

You should be able to get a cover in any color for under $100 shipped (way under in many cases)

I have a few colors in stock.


----------



## vfrjim

Looking for an All-Black plate, if someone knows where to get one.


----------



## grhi

Hello...


I am in the process of completing my basement and am planning on making one room a home theater. I have already purchased several RadioRa switches for this installation along with several master controls. (I don't have the part listing with me, otherwise I would include them.) The lights in the theater portion of the room are being configured as 7 zones, something like this:


| ----------- |

| | | | |

| | | | |

| ----------- |


What I am wondering is if I can add a Grafik Eye to this configuration and, if so, what model should I get? (What advantages would I get by doing this?)


There will also be 3 additional zones off to the right side (this would be the bottom of the above diagram) that would control lights in a side sitting area and over a bar. Could these also be incorporated into the GE? (I have also purchased some Sivoia switches for the window covers too.)


Thanks!


----------



## grhi

The above diagram in my post did not format correctly....


So let me try an attachment instead.


----------



## DMF

Yeah, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one too. I have satin nickel now, but the other 4' wallplates are black.


Rick, I went through various wallplates on the wallstations and black definitely looked best. I tried white, chrome, silver, and some poor-fitting satin nickel. (It's darn difficult to find a decent 2- or 3-gang Deco plate in satin nickel. I won't pay special order prices for Claro.) I'll send you pics one of these days. The back-lighting really looks slick on black wallstations.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiblesolutions* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The metal finishes do look great but I would caution that if you expect to order a metal finish for the main unit the metal cover may act as heat sinks and be very hot to the touch--as in 110-120F. I have never ordered a metal finish for a Grafik Eye but I have for many a Vario. And those Varios were all very hot to the touch.



Forgot to report back on my results. The metal finish is a skin over a plastic core. The metal doesn't come into direct contact with the body of the GE. Mine runs nice and cool.


----------



## cinemascope

I had a brushed chrome cover on a 6 zone GRX in my old office... No heat.


----------



## timps

I am finishing the basement and ran all the wires for the Grafik eye sytem and additional control panels. When I had a HT company, (they were supposed to be VERY familiar with these systems), rough in the power lines for the 2 GRX-3106 units, they had changed the lines I had already run for the mux lines. They were run in a daisy chain format and they changed it all to homeruns - with resistance from me but hey - they are the professionals right...


They came back after all the sheetrock was hung and walls were painted, to hook everything up. They informed me that they were not sure how to hook up the 3 NTGRX-4B controlers and a 2-button (forget the #). These are the same installers that originally were in the house. They basically left the accessory controls unhooked and told me that I would need to figure out how to hook them up or they could research it and come back (for more $$ of course) and hook them up.










With what I am reading, I was correct to run them daisy chain and am I now $#@%$#??










Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## BillW

Tell the contractor he will have to run the wires correctly so the system works properly or you will withhold final payment. If it's cheaper (which I doubt) you could change the system to the Grafik Eye RadioRa system. Look at the seeTouch wallstations if you do.


----------



## timps

I have just finished the walls with Santos Mahogany and Bubinga wood. I really do not want to cut into the walls at this point and there is really no way to run lines in the walls without cutting into the walls. It has taken me a year to get all the wood on the walls and I am finally to the point where I am putting Poly on the walls.....


Is there anyway to hook up the controllers with the current homeruns?


----------



## DMF

Yes. Just tie all the end-run cables together. This is electrically and topologically the same as daisy-chaining.


You didn't say where they were homerun to, so I don't know how convenient this is going to be. If you used Lutron cable, some of the wire gauges are pretty small, so you will need a really good small-wire stripper, and maybe a soldering iron.


I agree that you should withhold final payment from the installer until he figures it out himself. If he thinks he needs to open the walls, give him a quote on how much it will cost, noting that of course he will be responsible for that cost. Don't tell him how to fix it, just let him sweat. Maybe it will teach him not to lie to his customers.


If you've already paid him, send a bill for the cost of opening the walls to re-wire and threaten suit (small claims isn't expensive) unless he makes it right.


You're being screwed here. It's time to change from catcher to pitcher.


----------



## DMF

If you intend to do this yourself, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! Multiple MUX accessory power supplies are well covered.


T&M contracts can be hard to control. From your installers, ask for an accounting *now* of chargable hours-to-date, broken down by task. Once you get it, you can start disputing charges. Tell them to take out any hours (and materials) spent re-wiring (unless you used the wrong cable to begin with). Also tell them that you won't accept a charge for them learning how to hook up the system since they represented to you that they already knew how. Put it in writing.


And let's move this out of the sticky thread, shall we?


----------



## jerrodshook

Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?












I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.


Thanks!


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...

If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.


BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.


----------



## jerrodshook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...
> 
> If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.
> 
> 
> BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.



Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.


Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....


I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.
> 
> 
> Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....



Not much... Keep it as tight as possible to the side of the GRX before you snap the faceplate on.



> Quote:
> I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!



I totally forgot about the Xantech 282x.

It is the same as the 282m, except no outer case...


Hey, we passed 15K views here on the old Grafik Eye thread!!


I sure hope that the banner advertisers who sell Lutron and have benefitted from the extra business remember to take care of those of us who built this thing.


Dimmers.net?? if you are out there... my PM is in my profile and if you would like to throw me a freebie, I have a perfect spot for a GRX-3506T-MN


----------



## DMF

I could use a Sivoia motor controller and a GRX-CIR-BR (infrared pickup in brown).


PM Rick for my mailing address.











Attached are some bad pics of the SeeTouch wallstations with the backlights showing for those that wanted to see how it looks. These pics were hard to get with a digital camera. In low light the color goes way off. The first is with a quick flash on a slow exposure so the color is close to correct. The white thing is a fan controller. The second used no flash so is way too yellow. The lettering actually looks milky white. You can see, though, that it is quite visible in a darkened room.


The third pic is shot like the first but didn't pick up the backlighting all that well. I include it to show how the controls disappear with black on black. Left to right are two Diva dimmers and a SG-4SI-BL-EGN SeeTouch wallstation.


(Installing that three-gang box was a bear! The old box was two-gang and the door moulding is somewhat wider than the original so the box had to move away from the stud. It is sitting about centered in a 10" stud cavity, so had to be mounted on a hanger. I had to use gangable metal boxes because plastic boxes don't work with a hanger. Since it's an outside wall I pulled 3/4" flex conduit to make any future re-wiring easier. Then I found out that no threaded conduit connector will clear the wallstation body!







And of course the sheetrock had to be cut out and rebuilt. Just got finished with the final paint touch-up. Whew!







)


----------



## cinemascope

What is the white keypad?? Old ceiling fan speed controller??


If you want to replace it, I know where you can get some nice Maetro controls with a fan speed control and a dimmer on a single decora insert...











...and it comes in Black.

http://www.lutron.com/maestro/maestr...=17000&t=17200


----------



## DMF

That's a _new_ fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.


No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's a _new_ fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.
> 
> 
> No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.



Fans are always tough... Even though it's not appropriate for your application, I am glad that they are shipping that new Maestro model with fan and light on a single unit.


The integrated light controls on the OE fan switches in retros required pulling out the boxes to add a larger box, which makes them a little harder than they are worth.


----------



## [email protected]

Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?

All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.


Flyboy


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?
> 
> All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.
> 
> 
> Flyboy



Officially and unofficially... Do not overload any zone on a Grafik Eye, or exceed the maximum overall rating for a Grafik Eye.


Insurance inspectors who come by after a fire or other electrical catastrophe could use this as an excuse to not cover any damages... How about that for a reason to stay within the limits??


If you can step up to a larger unit, or multiple units, to achieve what you need.


If you are not already using the largest single box GRX (6 zone), I would step up and just spread out the loads on additional zones. I am sure that if you take another step back and look again at that lighting plan, there will be additional seperations that make sense to create additional scenes.


If you still _really_ want all 13 fixtures to act as one, nobody is saying that you couldn't just split them on two zones and then program the zones to track identically (level and fade time) to the scene commands...


If you are already at six zones and do not really want to install a second unit for more zone capacity, consider using the Power Booster (NGRX-PB) See Post 20 on Page 1 of this thread for more info and information links.


Thirteen fixtures is a LOT to have on one zone... I rarely have that many fixtures on one zone of a whole house lighting job using HomeWorks panels.


----------



## [email protected]




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Officially and unofficially...




I hear what your saying and yes it makes a lot of sense. Actually the larger unit has already come into play (or thoughts). Due to either poor planing or the fact that I'm temporarily hooking everything up to make sure I like what I see before I can't change it, I've come to realize that I would really like/ need a 6 zone system rather than the 4 zone I just bought.

Unfortunately, the company I bought it from will not let you return a Grafik eye, even for a larger unit, if its ever been turned on. On the other hand, using a 6 zone system would still not let me split the 13 light zone since I added lights and need 6 zones.

I guess buying another 4 zone would let me add two zones and split the 13 zone...leaving one zone unused (yes I know about the 25watt min load).

This leads to another question that I haven't researched or seriously consider...until now; could I use that remaining zone to run electric window shades? Do they require a zone or are they PELV only?


Attached is 13 cans on one zone, it is the rec room end of my "great room" and yes the theater end is much more tame. ...oh and they currently have 60 watt bulbs as to NOT over load the zone.


Cheers,

Flyboy


----------



## DMF

If you get a newer GE, they added a new load type for their Sivoia shades, so you can control them directly from a zone. (I believe you can also control their other shade line, too.) Lutron shades are pricey, so be sure you want to go that way before you make it a requirement.


----------



## [email protected]

FYI,

A new GE is out of my budget right now. After having a look, Sivoia shades will never be in my budget! I bought a GE power booster to fix my wattage issue and put some lites that would most likely only be used while entertaining on manual dimmers where the wiring can be accessed for a future GE upgrade.

On another note, I bought way to much PELV wire for my Seetouch switches. Would it be worth while to run this wire to my basement windows and sliding glass door for future non-Sivoia shades?


Flyboy


----------



## BroncoSport

How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.



Scott


(in El Dorado, BTW)


----------



## [email protected]




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BroncoSport* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> (in El Dorado, BTW)



About 175' too much. I was originally going to hide my GE, run three wall switches and install the Silvola shades. In the end I decided not to hide the GE, only run two wall switches, and decided the the Lutron shades were way too expensive.

If the wire is useful for "other" motorized shades I'll probably use another 50' of it.

Anyhow, one way or another I'm going to have an extra 100' plus....and an extra See Touch switch. If your interested PM me. I'll unload it cheap....though I wonder what's more expensive, gas or shipping!










Flyboy


----------



## BillW

flyboy you have a pm.


----------



## carpecervisi

Zone control question: Is there any way to raise and lower a single zone without effecting the others attached to the same 3100 series GRX?


I finally finished all of the drywall in the basement and the HT completed but I'm finding I cannot do exactly what I want with the unit...which is individual control of the HT zone without the remote (MX-3000) raising or lowering the rest of the basement.


Can it be done or do I need to step up to a 3500 series? And does anyone have one of those cheap.


----------



## DMF

Please be clear on what you want. Do you want to be able to change a single zone _from the remote?_ If that's the question, then afaik, no you can't. A 3500 isn't different from a 3100 in that regard.


Why is it that you want to change a single zone? Can't you just program several scenes with that zone at different levels? Of course, you can always change the zone at the GE front panel.


With a 3500 (and a GRX-PRG and a PC with the Liaison software) there is a sneaky way to do what you want. Create a scene with all zones that you don't want to change set as UA (unaffected). When you select that scene from the remote, they will stay unchanged. Then using the scene raise/lower commands, only the zone that is not set to UA will change.


----------



## cinemascope

Technically he _could_ raise and lower the individual zones with a GRX-3500, but it would require more than a change to the 3500...


He would need an MRF-250 or 300 base, connected to a Xantech IRS-232A which would need to be programmed to output the RS-232 strings into the GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to raise and lower the individual zones.


It's kind of a mess, but it is possible.


I would just ditch the MX-3000 and pick up an RTI T3 with the RP-6 base that can output RS-232 directly.


----------



## carpecervisi

Okay, so DMF smacked me back to reality and cinemascope scared the hell outta me!


About 3/4 of the way into this, I realized that the 3106 wasn't really gonna fit my needs, but since everything was wired and a lot of rock had been hung I decided to go ahead with it. The situation is that I have a dedicated HT as well as a lounge/bar area in the basement. The GRX controls lighting for the entire setup and I'd hoped to be able to adjust the lights as needed within the theater without effecting the bar lights.


I see DMF's logic in just setting up a bunch of scenes that would have the main lights at a fixed point and provide gradients to the HT. My ignorance was that I wasn't thinking through the raise/lower functionality a remote would provide. I had hoped that when you set the lights in a scene, you could lock them in as required but adjust ones that were not locked.


II do have an MRF-300 and it sounds like the 3500 could *almost* do what I'm after, but it's just not worth the pain and expense. I really appreciate DMF and cinemascope's responses, though. Thanks guys!


-chad


----------



## Erebus1954

You can raise or loser individual zones with Lutron's GRX-IRI infrared interface.


Attach infrared lead from the MRF-250/300 to the GRX-IRI. No RS232 codes are used with this unit.


Lutron has infrared codes to access all the scenes and zones from your programmable remote then.


Here's an excerpt from the installation and operation instructions:


Description

The GRX-IRI Infrared Interface allows auxiliary systems

equipped with an IR emitter to control a GRAFIK Eye

system. Up to 8 GRAFIK Eye Control Units can be

Assigned to listen to the GRX-IRI.

Features

The GRX-IRI allows auxiliary systems to access basic

functions using standard Lutron IR codes. These functions

include:

Selection of 16 Scenes plus Off on the Assigned group of

GRAFIK Eye Control Units.

Temporary Master Raise or Lower of all zones on the

Assigned group of GRAFIK Eye Control Units.

The Assigned group of GRAFIK Eye Control Units is set

using address (DIP) switches 1 to 8 on the GRX-IRI.


For ultimate flexibility, the *advanced set of Lutron PRO IR

codes* can be used. These allow individual control of any

GRAFIK Eye Control Unit or Zone within the system:

Selection of 16 Scenes plus Off on any GRAFIK Eye Control

Unit in the system (Example: Select Scene 1 on GRAFIK

Eye Control Unit 2).

Temporary Master Raise or Lower of all zones on any

GRAFIK Eye Control Unit in the system.

Raise or Lower any zone on any GRAFIK Eye Control Unit

in the system.

Save the current settings as a scene on a GRAFIK Eye

Control Unit (only availabe with GRAFIK Eye 3500 or 4500

Series Control Units).


----------



## DMF

Good info. That got me thinking about whether the Grafik Eye itself recognizes the PRO IR commands. A call to Lutron Tech Support pointed me at this document that says they don't. The -IRI (and a wallstation like the SG-PRO) translates the PRO codes into data bus instructions much like the GRX-PRG uses.


Anyone have a price on the GRX-IRI and SG-PRO? I forgot to ask.


----------



## sk8conz

Just got my 3104-CE (230V version) and have a couple of questions:-



a) For accessory keypads such as the seetouch, can I use cat 5 to connect back to the main unit ?



b) For dimming low voltage halogens, it would appear that:-


1) If I use a "traditional" transformer, then it's an MLV load that I can dim directly. I may have some problem with the transformer/light humming or singing, but it's a matter of try it and see.



2) If I use an electronic transformer, then I need the ELV module ??? Correct ?, or does the ELV module only serve to reduce/eliminate noise ???





What type of halogens/transformer combonation have most people gone with ? and did you use the ELV module ?


Thanks


----------



## DMF

a) Not legally here in the US. Any wiring - low voltage or otherwise - that enters a high (120V for us) voltage box must have a jacket with a breakdown voltage rating of 600V. Most cat5 doesn't have a high breakdown jacket It has been pointed out that standard black electrician's tape has a 600V rating, so if you wrap it up and clamp it like you should with any cable entering a box, and keep it separate from the power cables, you can do it. (Kiwi law may be different, though.) Check that standard cat5 has enough ampacity to handle the 12V power. Lutron uses 18 AWG for their power wires. Also be sure that your cat5 cable is rated for in-wall use (plenum rating is not needed).


b) ELV requires a different load setting on the GE but no separate module. Most people use MLV. I've never had a transformer problem driving MR16 (12V) lamps.


----------



## Erebus1954




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have a price on the GRX-IRI and SG-PRO? I forgot to ask.



I paid about $75 for my GRX-IRI. A bargain compared to other ways to remotely control a GrafikEye.


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> b) ELV requires a different load setting on the GE but no separate module. Most people use MLV. I've never had a transformer problem driving MR16 (12V) lamps.




Thanks for the reply. So you run MLV, and have had no problems with the light or transformer buzzing or making a noise when dimmed ?


I went ahead and hooked up an electronic transformer I had and it all seems to work fine, no buzz or hum. Should I set the GE to ELV or MLV ? Both seem to work. What are the pros/cons of each ?



Thanks


----------



## red5908




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Erebus1954* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I paid about $75 for my GRX-IRI. A bargain compared to other ways to remotely control a GrafikEye.



Steve,

Where did you find teh GRX-IRI?

All I can find is the GRX-CIR for around $290!


Ron


----------



## Erebus1954




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *red5908* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Where did you find teh GRX-IRI?
> 
> All I can find is the GRX-CIR for around $290!
> 
> 
> Ron



I got it at http://www.hankselectric.com/ .


----------



## red5908

Steve,

Thanks for the response. I got my Grafik Eye stuff from Hank's too. I can't find the GRX-IRI anywhere. I wonder if it has been discontinued?


Ron


----------



## Erebus1954




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *red5908* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the response. I got my Grafik Eye stuff from Hank's too. I can't find the GRX-IRI anywhere. I wonder if it has been discontinued?
> 
> 
> Ron



I had a fair amount of trouble finding a GRX-IRI, too. Hank's didn't have it in stock, but they ordered it for me.


----------



## DMF

They have it in stock now, for $75. MSRP is reported as $100.


----------



## ballvice

anyone have experience with the LUTRON GRAFIC EYE GRX-MR-4T???


I am looking at getting one for my NEW MEDIA room I am building and wanted to know if anyone has one or has used one. Good device? Easy to program? I am going to have 3-4 zones with halogen (60W bulbs).


Thanks for the responses.


F


----------



## DMF

Same as any other Grafik Eye. Equivalent to the GRX-3104-T. Where are you? (Put your location in your profile.)


When you say "program", what do you expect to be able to do? Have you read the documents on the Lutron site? Have you read this thread?


----------



## ballvice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Same as any other Grafik Eye. Equivalent to the GRX-3104-T. Where are you? (Put your location in your profile.)
> 
> 
> When you say "program", what do you expect to be able to do? Have you read the documents on the Lutron site? Have you read this thread?



Same place as you....ATL....


I have read a portion of the threads here....am very new to the Grafik Eye, but the info here has been useful. As I understand it....basically you set the lighting scenes' you want and save them, correct? We have SEVERAL at our office and the person responsible for the purchase said they can be complex to program the scenes.....from reading here..it seems fairly straight forward.


So I found a great deal on the "GRX-3104-T" and am looking at accessories. My media room is ALMOST complete and I have 3 lighting zones....I want to add blackout shades and an IR remote (or buy a remote that can control this unit).


Have been doing some reading here, lutron, and other sites....but its a lot of information for something I humbly didn't think about until after we started the media room.


Looking for some direction....where do I go for blackout shades and can they be put on Zone 4???


What are your thoughts on MEDIA center remotes. I hit the remote link in the first post, but a lot of the user reviews on the ones I looked at were less than good.


Looking for advice from the guru's.


Thanks!


F


----------



## DMF

Yes. An office environment is somewhat different, though, since several Grafik Eyes can be made to talk to each other and a single 'scene' may affect eight GEs and 50 zones. With a single GE it's quite simple.


----------



## ballvice

I am pretty siked about getting it! Seems like "a must have" for a media room!


----------



## ballvice

Hey DMF,


I am getting ready to wire....on the 3106.....how do you combine the "commons"....what is the best way to do this in the box? I am pulling 3 zones into this box...I konw that the "hots" go to the numbers.....do I just twist tie the commons to a single lead and run it to the common on the GE?


Frank


----------



## BillW

You've got it! In electrician speak that is called a pig-tail.


----------



## ballvice

Great...so we hook will be "fading and un-fading" today...Media room is "almost" complete.


Frank


----------



## BillW

Do the same for the grounds, and if you are using a metal box don't forget to install a ground screw and ground the box.


----------



## ballvice

using a plastic 4 gang re-model...the contractor had already set the 3 gang box before I got the good deal on this unit...hope to install this tomorrow...want me to post pix? GRIN


----------



## BillW

I would strongly recommend using a metal deep (3.5 inches) masonry box. It is really difficult to get all the wires and the g.e. into a plastic box,especially an old work one (the drywall likes to break where the ears are. The masonry box could just screw into a stud and for romex connectors use Arlington Industries NM-94.


----------



## DMF

Excerpt from Post #19 of this very thread.

-------------

Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons:

1. Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better.

2. Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.

3. Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).

---------


The third point isn't as important for a 3104 in a four-gang box as it is with a 3106, but you will find the extra cubes useful nonetheless.


Read the thread. We didn't post this info to amuse ourselves.


----------



## ballvice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excerpt from Post #19 of this very thread.
> 
> -------------
> 
> Use metal boxes for GE installation, not plastic. There are three reasons:
> 
> 1. Grafik Eye runs hot; metal dissipates heat better.
> 
> 2. Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.
> 
> 3. Non-metallic box cable clamps are internal and most are unused; metallic boxes have no internal clamps to waste volume (especially important in a one-box installation).
> 
> ---------
> 
> 
> The third point isn't as important for a 3104 in a four-gang box as it is with a 3106, but you will find the extra cubes useful nonetheless.
> 
> 
> Read the thread. We didn't post this info to amuse ourselves.



This will be my last post in this section of the forum....


Wanted to let you guys know that I have read a good bit of what is out here and some of the stuff on the Lutron site. In the midst of building the new media room, I have had several purchase decision to make and have been on a few of the other forums reading and posting. This piece of the media room was a big after-thought


Thanks for the generous replies....I humbly didn't realize this forum was so strict on asking some basic questions. I know that some of the quesitons I asked may have been posted, but I didn't realize there would be any harm in asking again...guess I was wrong.


I have 3 kids, full time job and I fly in the Military....Most of the stuff I need to retain in the old noggin relates to the things that pay the bills or keep me safe. Other things, I research and ask....most people just reply (I usually do as well...guess I am conditioned that way, but that's just me).


Sorry for stepping on toes....


Balz


----------



## qthai99

Can anyone help me with my Grafik Eye 4508 I just bought? It was really cheap and it's making me doubt I got the right product. I thought it would look similar to the 3508 where there are 8 zones in the back to wire to. The front has 8 zones. What should the back of a GRX-4508 look like? There are no zones to wire to. How do I connect/install it?


----------



## timps

Ballvice - don't take it personal - DMF is rude to just about everyone. I stopped posting here also because of him. I too was under the impression that users could gain DIY information here in a friendly, un-combative environment. I have received a TON of great advice from a great many participants - newbies as well as seasoned vets, but it only takes one to ruin an otherwise wonderful experience.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ballvice* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This will be my last post in this section of the forum....
> 
> 
> Wanted to let you guys know that I have read a good bit of what is out here and some of the stuff on the Lutron site. In the midst of building the new media room, I have had several purchase decision to make and have been on a few of the other forums reading and posting. This piece of the media room was a big after-thought
> 
> 
> Thanks for the generous replies....I humbly didn't realize this forum was so strict on asking some basic questions. I know that some of the quesitons I asked may have been posted, but I didn't realize there would be any harm in asking again...guess I was wrong.
> 
> 
> I have 3 kids, full time job and I fly in the Military....Most of the stuff I need to retain in the old noggin relates to the things that pay the bills or keep me safe. Other things, I research and ask....most people just reply (I usually do as well...guess I am conditioned that way, but that's just me).
> 
> 
> Sorry for stepping on toes....
> 
> 
> Balz


----------



## DMF

Look at the Installation Guide on the Lutron web site to see what the back looks like.


Unlike the 3000 (and lower) Series, The 4000 (and higher) Series Grafik Eyes do not have integral dimmers in the control unit. (That's how they can fit 8, 16, or 24 zone controls in a single unit.) Dimmers are installed in a separate power panel. The control unit merely tells the panel what dimmer levels to set. Accordingly, the only wiring on the control unit is control wiring. You never connect standard house wiring to it.


Without a power panel and the various gadgets that mount in it, your 4508 is useless. That's why you got it cheap.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *timps* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ballvice - don't take it personal - DMF is rude to just about everyone. I stopped posting here also because of him.



Rude? Rather, direct. In your case, timps, you started your long pout when I suggested that your questions belonged in a separate thread since they had veered off topic and were inappropriate for a sticky thread. Too bad you've changed your tactic to sniping.


As for suggesting that ballvice read _and heed_ the early posts in this thread, I make no excuse or apology. Once upon a time every newbie DIYer would start a new thread here wanting to know all about Grafik Eyes. As a result, the guys that really knew about GEs, wiring, lighting control, etc. stopped answering the noobs. They just didn't have time to teach the same class every week. The noobs, if they got any advice at all, often got questionable advice.


Well, I was a noob once and when I didn't get responses I pointedly asked the guys why not. This thread is the direct result. The indirect result is that the experts are posting again because most of the questions are specific and have shorter answers than, "Tell me all there is to know about Grafik Eyes".


I'm sorry to see ballvice go, but it's his choice. If you two won't participate here, then who loses? You do.


----------



## timps

First of all - my questions were specific questions - not "Tell me all about the Grafik Eye system" and your response was dead WRONG. You can NOT just tie them all together - maybe you should read the manuals.


Secondly "read the manual" is not an answer that someone who knows what they are doing would or should give if they are truly trying to help someone. Upon reviewing your responses, this seems to be one of your favorite answers. Lutrons directions can seem confusing and slightly misleading if you are not familiar with products as a professional installer may be.


Now you might have some positive input to these threads and you certainly answer enough questions for people but it is your overall condesending tone that I am questioning. As a "one time newby" you should recognize this more readily than others.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rude? Rather, direct. In your case, timps, you started your long pout when I suggested that your questions belonged in a separate thread since they had veered off topic and were inappropriate for a sticky thread. Too bad you've changed your tactic to sniping.
> 
> 
> As for suggesting that ballvice read _and heed_ the early posts in this thread, I make no excuse or apology. Once upon a time every newbie DIYer would start a new thread here wanting to know all about Grafik Eyes. As a result, the guys that really knew about GEs, wiring, lighting control, etc. stopped answering the noobs. They just didn't have time to teach the same class every week. The noobs, if they got any advice at all, often got questionable advice.
> 
> 
> Well, I was a noob once and when I didn't get responses I pointedly asked the guys why not. This thread is the direct result. The indirect result is that the experts are posting again because most of the questions are specific and have shorter answers than, "Tell me all there is to know about Grafik Eyes".
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to see ballvice go, but it's his choice. If you two won't participate here, then who loses? You do.


----------



## cinemascope

Although the "posting for our own amusement" comment may have been a little strong, I definitely see DMFs point of view here...


Sometimes it's frustrating to get handfuls of PMs week after week from guys with single-digit post counts asking redundant questions that are clearly answered in the first few posts of the same thread where they found our names.


BTW, DMF and I have been in contact several times over the year or so that this has been going on, and I can say that there is more than a little but of sarcastic humor behind that comment... I definitely laughed when I read it.


I think that anyone who starts or significantly contributes to a sticky here has wished at one time or another that the Search function was explained a little better to people signing up for the first time. I use it all the time...
*

I welcome you guys to keep asking questions if anything is unclear to you.*

Of course I would hope that you would spend some time browsing the first couple pages and the links that exist in those posts, but by all means feel free to ask away if questions still exist.


After all, the alternative is to go at it on your own, and if you read any of the links in the first few posts to the threads that prompted some of us sitting down and spending CONSIDERABLE time assembling this thread, then you know that there were some seriously unsafe installs being performed by otherwise well-intentioned DIY guys who really didn't understand the application of the product.


Grafik Eye lighting control makes a great addition to a home theater space, and really adds a lot of value to anyone with front projection. I mean for $400-500 total you can significantly enhance the contrast and perceived brightness of your setup without spending another dime on the video products themselves.


That has to be one of the better returns on investment in front projection!!


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *timps* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... your response was dead WRONG. You can NOT just tie them all together - maybe you should read the manuals.



Explain. When installed according to the manuals, the data lines are daisy chained. That is topologically and electrically identical to an end-run scheme where the data lines are all tied together at a single point.


Did you really think I meant to tie the different colors together?


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Maybe I missed it in here I'm getting ready to install one of these but I was confused on how I should wire my lights. Should I run one lead from each light to the box, or wire the lights I want on a zone together. I suppose the one light one wire lead would allow for the most flexiblity. But what is the normal case for install?


----------



## Mark Lem

OK I've read this all the way through!


If I understand this correctly, for my new HT I need:


1) A Grafik Eye (such as 3104 4zone/4scene)

2) A controller hardwired to Grafik Eye that allows me to select scenes either manually or remotely (such as NTGRX-4S-IR).



One thing I have not seen anywhere: Where do you all typically locate the Grafik Eye and the controller in the room, or does it matter?


----------



## DMF

End run for multiple lights in a zone is entirely possible, but not practical. Uses too much cable (have you priced copper lately?), requires huge splices, big junction boxes, big or multiple holes through the joists, etc..


Daisy chain is the way to go. But if you have a case where you're not sure if these four lumineres should be in the same zone as these other four, it might make sense to treat them as separate zones until you get back to the dimming panel. Just be aware that it might require a separate or larger junction box to handle the extra cables.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark Lem* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I understand this correctly, for my new HT I need:
> 
> 
> 1) A Grafik Eye (such as 3104 4zone/4scene)
> 
> 2) A controller hardwired to Grafik Eye that allows me to select scenes either manually or remotely (such as NTGRX-4S-IR).



1) 3104 supports four zones. It also supports 16 scenes, although only four are selectable from the front panel. (Other sets of four are selectable from remote wallstations or a remote control.)


2) Why do you need the wallstation? GE has buttons on it to select the scenes and an infrared pickup for remote control. A wallstation is for control from outside the room or at another entrance or location.



> Quote:
> One thing I have not seen anywhere: Where do you all typically locate the Grafik Eye and the controller in the room, or does it matter?



Doesn't really matter. Some people put it next to the door for egress control. But that often places it behind the seating and infrared is line-of sight. You could go with an RF controlled version, or use a Lutron repeater like GRX-CIR or one of the IR wallstations, or use a 3rd party repeater. Or shoot over your shoulder.


It doesn't even have to be in the room at all.


----------



## Mark Lem

Thanks DMD!


After reading I assumed that the GE was just the brains and you needed a controller to go with it of some sort. You saved me some $$$...


The GE will go just inside my one door into the HT (at the back of the HT) and I will use it's front panel to manually turn on/off.


I have not investigated master remotes yet but I would like to sit in the sweet spot facing forward and select lighting scenes along with everything else. I need to investigate RF and IR possibilities...


----------



## Stima

Wiring up my Grafik Eye tomorrow (finally!!)...but had one question before I did:


Has anyone used an Eye with an outdoor lighting transformer (Malibu lighting, ect.)? From what I can tell, they output 12v AC....but I can not figure out if they are magnetic or electronic. I would "assume" they are magnetic due to the large size and weight. (indicative of a large wattage 10/1 step-down transformer).


I don't want to hook it up and blow up my Grafik eye because it happens to be a electronic low voltage setup. Well, actually....will it hurt anything IF I hook it up and it's ELV? Will the transfomer simply not work or do I guarentee I will destroy my Grafik Eye?


Thoughts anyone?


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Based on your description, it is likely a magnetic transformer. None-the-less, if it is ELV the GE won't blow up. It's more likely that the lights will either not dim properly or that the transformer will fail.


----------



## Stima

Thanks Dennis. I will have to stop by and show you some of my finished theater pictures. Just have trim work left to complete.


----------



## Stima

Wired the Eye with no problems. Pretty neat to see it dim the Malibu deck lights I used above the steps for the riser.


Only slight problem...I get a hum with my Magnetic Low Voltage Cans installed in the ceiling when they are not at full brightness. These are the same DMF installed.


Any good way to eliminate the hum? (Besides not dimming the lights.







)


----------



## DMF

Are you talking about the Home Depot eyeball cans?


I'd exchange any can that hums.


----------



## Stima

They are the brushed nickel ones you have on your porch.


I will try and listen to each to see if it's just one making all the racket.


----------



## loicdesdvina

I'm reading over these posts, but I still don't think I grasp the concept... What exactly IS the Grafik Eye? How would one use it?


I'm still pretty new to all of this stuff, and I think I kind of get what it does, somewhat, so I apologize for any break in your discussion.


----------



## cinemascope

A Grafik Eye is an integrated lighting controller to replace multiple light switches/dimmers in a single area. Using a Grafik Eye allows simple keypad control at multiple entry points, as well as a reliable interface with universal remote systems and upscale automation & control systems.


This is a VERY simplified description, and I hope this brings a fresh perspective to make the first couple pages make more sense for you.

Before anyone pops in with corrections to the above statement, I obviously know that it can operate many loads in multiple rooms when configured to do so...


But for 99.9% of the people visitng this thread on a _home theater_ forum, it will be for a single area.


----------



## BillW

Well put cinemascope. I would like to add you need to think in terms of scenes you want to create. Say you push the button labled movies/TV. The Grafix Eye can dim the wall sconces to 15%, turn off the main room lighting, etc. to creat a scene. With a contact enclosure it can also lower your screen and turn on your projector.


----------



## DMF

To know what a Grafik Eye does, one must have some sense of what the design of interior lighting can do for a room. Proper lighting design can increase livability, usability, attractiveness, and value. Unfortunately, this is a _much_ neglected topic; I have yet to see any spec or mass-market home that implements any of the design principles.


Rather than use all-purpose light sources, one assigns each light source or group a specific purpose. There are three main purposes: ambient or general illumination, task lighting, and accent lighting. The first purpose seems to speak for itself, but when you separate task and accent lighting from it, you find that general illumination does not need to be bright as we usually have it. It only needs to provide an ambient level, especially for moving about safely. It may consist of different areas, for instance brighter light over walkways.


Task lighting concentrates an appropriate level of light on an area used for a task, such as reading or cooking. It does not always need to be at a different level than ambient. Accent lighting highlights an architectural or decorative element such as a wall, a flower arrangement, or a sculpture. Obviously, assigning light sources to purposes requires many light sources.


An interior designer combines these types of lighting to "layer" a room, making it appear larger or more interesting. For instance, when you enter a room there may be a strongly illuminated sculpture in the foreground, a lower ambient level, a wash on the far wall, and a couple of brighter work areas in the room. Compare that with the typical "four white walls, one bright light" environment that we usually live in.


But to be most functional, purpose-designed lighting must be adaptable to the several potential uses of a room. For instance, the lighting levels will be quite different for a dining room between the Formal Dining, Cleaning, and Night Light uses (called 'scenes'). Likewise a home theater may have Watch Film, Cleaning, Entry/Exit, and Discussion scenes.


Controlling many light sources or groups through different scenes is what the *Grafik Eye* is used for.


----------



## cinemascope

D, did you pick up some of those lighting design books I recommended last year??


For anyone else who may be looking for a good resource for lighting design, I highly recommend the Lighting Design Sourcebook from Randall Whitehead.

It has unbelievable photos and great descriptions of the lighting in gorgeous residential, commercial, and landscape applications.


I haven't found a definitive text on lighting _control_, but I have a distinct feeling that this could change soon...


----------



## sk8conz

Does anyone know where I can get a LUT-DMX. This lets a Grafik Eye control a DMX512 dimmable device. Lutron has them on their website, but I can't seem to find an online store that carries them.


Thanks


----------



## DMF

Try a local electrical wholesaler. They will likely have to order it.


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try a local electrical wholesaler. They will likely have to order it.



Any idea of an online wholesaler ? I am in New Zealand, so there is no "local" GE stockist


----------



## cheenu

Hi all,

First of all, excellent information on this thread from very competent folks.

Now my problem:

I have GE3106 in my media room to control 4 sets of dimmer lights. My problem is that I get a lot of video hum bars(audio has no hum) when I use the GE. No hum bars on dvi (purely digital) but a lot on s-video and component video outputs (analog). I have traced it down to the emi/rf interference from GE (tested with the am radio method). I have tried everything that I can think of and it all is related to lutron dimmer. I have even tried jensen s-video isomax with definite improvement but at the cost of significant reduction of pq. The wall gang box is the metal one (switched from the originally fitted plastic box). I have tried to individually turn off each zone to troubleshoot but still get the horizontal hum bars and it is definately the emi??. I even tried a new lutron replacement but to no awail. Please help!!! Any suggestions???

Thanks in advance.

sunil


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any idea of an online wholesaler ? I am in New Zealand, so there is no "local" GE stockist



Are you telling us that no one in NZ sells Lutron? If you don't know of someone, contact Lutron.


As for online dealers, you're in at least as good a position as us to figure that out. We aren't looking for a LUT-DMX. Nor do we pay attention to whether a online dealer ships to New Zealand. You will probably have to contact each dealer directly.


Don't expect that anyone will stock that item. Local or online, you will have to wait for a special order. Might as well establish a relationship with a local shop, if possible. You will be buying more electrical parts, surely.


----------



## Scott-C

AVS GE Experts, I need your help. I have recently completed my HT and have a GRX-3104 along with one wallstation (NTGRX-1S). Everything seems to work fine except for one thing: when I push the "Scene 1" button on the wallstation, it will not mimic the fade-in rate I selected on the GE. It seems to set the correct zone lighting levels but always illuminates the room in 3 seconds, which I am guessing is a default setting.


All other buttons on the wallstation seem to work fine; they select the correct zone levels and also fade them in at the correct rate.


Interestingly, I noticed that if I select scene 1 on the wallstation while one of the other 3 scenes is selected, it sometimes will fade in at the correct rate. But if all lights are turned completely off using the "Off" button on the wallstation, and I then press scene 1 on the wallstation, it always fades them in within 3 seconds.


Any idea how to fix this problem?


----------



## DMF

I don't think there is a fix using the NTGRX-1S. The 3000 Series is designed around the data bus. Apparently the high-voltage SSA control feature is retained for backward compatibility with the 2000 series but may not be well integrated with the 3000 features. Using SSA to force the unit to Scene 1 may bypass some of the "smart" attributes like fade time.


If you used a wallstation like the SeeTouch SG-2B (or just about any wallstation besides the NTGRX-1S) that connects to the GE via a low-voltage data cable, the problem would go away.


That said, if you use the wallstation as an entrance control, why would you want a slow fade-up time? Do you like entering the room in the dark? Or if you want _faster_ fade-up, you might try putting one of the zones in "non-fade" mode.


----------



## nostromo20

Trying to create 3106 based lighting solution in home (but total newbie). Happy with GRX feature set for manual control (ie scenes, remote switches and IR control), however want to drive the units (through RS232) with more sophisticated software from a PC (software handling the conditional logic, Astronomical clock, timers for vacation etc and driving GRX's in real time). So in effect have the features of homeworks on a PC driving the scene/zone selection on the GRX's. I dont want to progam the GRX's or mess about with setting dimming increments, just invoke scene/zone selections in real time based on control software on PC (giving similar feature set to HWI). I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nostromo20* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Trying to create 3106 based lighting solution in home (but total newbie). Happy with GRX feature set for manual control (ie scenes, remote switches and IR control), however want to drive the units (through RS232) with more sophisticated software from a PC (software handling the conditional logic, Astronomical clock, timers for vacation etc and driving GRX's in real time). So in effect have the features of homeworks on a PC driving the scene/zone selection on the GRX's. I dont want to progam the GRX's or mess about with setting dimming increments, just invoke scene/zone selections in real time based on control software on PC (giving similar feature set to HWI). I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know



If you want the most functionality through RS-232, use a GRX-3506 instead of a '3106. You will also need a GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to act as the interface.


----------



## Dean Roddey




> Quote:
> I have looked at CQC and it seem promising but fair bit of customisation - so wanted to check if there were other (pre canned) solutions - if anyone is working on a plugin to cover this in mediaportal please let me know



For requirements that specific, it's probably kind of unlikely that there'd be something off the shelf, though anything is possible. If you don't find anything out of the can, I don't think you'll find CQC that complex to set up, though anythign that powerful will have some learning curve. But our DIY community is quite helpful and knowledgeable and can give you a lot of assistance.


----------



## Scott-C




> Quote:
> I don't think there is a fix using the NTGRX-1S. The 3000 Series is designed around the data bus. Apparently the high-voltage SSA control feature is retained for backward compatibility with the 2000 series but may not be well integrated with the 3000 features. Using SSA to force the unit to Scene 1 may bypass some of the "smart" attributes like fade time.
> 
> 
> If you used a wallstation like the SeeTouch SG-2B (or just about any wallstation besides the NTGRX-1S) that connects to the GE via a low-voltage data cable, the problem would go away.
> 
> 
> That said, if you use the wallstation as an entrance control, why would you want a slow fade-up time? Do you like entering the room in the dark? Or if you want faster fade-up, you might try putting one of the zones in "non-fade" mode.



Thanks for the response. It is just strange to me that it fades correctly if you press the Scene 1 button while you have one of the other 3 preprammed scenes selected, but not if you select Scene 1 with the lights currently in the Off position.


The reason I wanted a slower fade-up time was to create slightly more dramatic lighting upon entering the HT. With the default of 3 seconds, the lights are pretty much all the way on by the time anyone enters the room. It would be cool to have them coming up as people are entering the HT. This doesn't mean people are entering the room in the dark, by the way. I'm not talking about a 30-minute fade-up time here; rather, I was hoping for something like 15-25 seconds.


Not a showstopper, but a "nice-to-have" for me...


----------



## nostromo20

Dean, Rick, thanks for the replies. Will get to work with CQC. Just a couple of other general 3106 questions....


DMF wrote in an earlier post...


> Quote:
> With a 3500 (and a GRX-PRG and a PC with the Liaison software) there is a sneaky way to do what you want. Create a scene with all zones that you don't want to change set as UA (unaffected). When you select that scene from the remote, they will stay unchanged. Then using the scene raise/lower commands, only the zone that is not set to UA will change.



From the docs I have read I assume this can also be done on a 310x through manual setup.


Also I was wondering if there are third party wallstation - bit disapointent in the limitation in the addressing of scenes on the Lutrons (eg the NTGRX-2B can really only address two sets of scenes - 9/10 or 13/14).


PS Great forum. Best Regards Jim


----------



## richh

My Grafik Eye will be on the side wall of my HT, about even with the first row of seating. How distracting will the zone LEDs be if I use a translucent cover? Does the translucent cover sufficiently tone down the LEDs or would I be better off with the opaque cover?


----------



## DMF

Depends on how dark your theater is. The translucent cover does a pretty good job of dimming the zone LEDs. The button selection LEDs are brighter. Don't worry about it. If it becomes a problem you can put some black tape over the inside of the cover.


----------



## Bemused

A quick question - I'm having homeworks installed in the UK, and have just been sent a quote for the engraving of the buttons - should this be included if it is standard engraving - I'm using the European switches? Also does the 3 star service apply in the UK as advertised on the US website?


thanks


----------



## DMF

There is no extra charge from Lutron for standard engraving.


I don't know about anything specific to Europe or the UK. Try calling Lutron tech support.


----------



## Bemused

For those Lutron fans, let me tell you its service doesn't travel well.


I've had (or rather having..) homeworks 8 installed. Lutron scan as the best company around, and I assumed the product and service in the uk to be on a par with the US. Whilst my eyes watered at the price (think US$ cost, add perhaps 25% and then exchange at $1 to £1, (forget the $1.8 to £1 you see at the bank), I bit the bullet. After all best product, best service, best support, you get what you pay for as these sites keep reminding us.


Free engraving - yes, but that means taking all the face plates off and sending them off for 4-6 weeks and having no lights at home. Hmm, or I could buy 20+ new face plates (over £1,000) and wait 4-6 weeks. Not what I expected, and not reasonable - do they do that to you in the US?


Warranty and service - in deciding whether to go with Lutron, I checked the website, which showed 3 star service for all Homeworks - so peace of mind post commissioning that any minor issues would be fully supported. But, apparently, that is only for the US, no mention that it is not offered elsewhere. Can anyone tell me how they support product outside the US?


And the programming - well, the full day of programming promised was 10am to 2pm, and vanish without a proper check, leaving parts not working... So Lutron, if your watching, do you want to sell in the UK, because from here I feel stitched up well and truly like a kipper.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bemused* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Free engraving - yes, but that means taking all the face plates off and sending them off for 4-6 weeks and having no lights at home. Hmm, or I could buy 20+ new face plates (over £1,000) and wait 4-6 weeks. Not what I expected, and not reasonable - do they do that to you in the US?



That's not how it works here. The free standard engraving (8 or 12 variations) is specified when the wall units are ordered. Can't imagine that it would be different over there.


Sounds to me like your installer is trying to sell you units from his stock - maybe left over from another job - instead of ordering them. Or he ordered 'no engraving' and is now trying to make you pay to fix it. (Could be your fault if you didn't specify the engraving up front.) You need to get this straight with him.



> Quote:
> And the programming - well, the full day of programming promised was 10am to 2pm, and vanish without a proper check, leaving parts not working... So Lutron, if your watching, do you want to sell in the UK, because from here I feel stitched up well and truly like a kipper.



That's because you apparently have been stitched up. But don't blame Lutron. Your installer is an independent contractor. Do you have a contract with him? Have you paid him yet?


Don't expect that Lutron will be able to help with the relationship between you and your installer. But they might be interested to know how their "representative" is treating his customers.


----------



## richh

Received my 3106 the other day and even though my HT is far from complete, I had to temporarily wire it in to give it a try. Unfortunately I am getting a faint, but audible humming or buzzing with my 4" low voltage cans. The fixtures are from Topaz lighting and are the air-tight IC rated version. The humming sounds one way when the lights are at 100%; if they are dimmed from 10% to 90% they sound slightly different. However, the noise at 10% sounds the same as 90%. I can notice the sound if the basement is dead silent, but as soon as the anything turns on (A/C or freezer), the humming gets lost in the background noise. Not sure if it will get better or worse once the insulation, drywall and greenglue goes up. On the one hand maybe once the ceiling is drywalled, it will help to reduce the amount of humming I hear. Then again, the noise floor will be lower once the walls are up.


There's an FAQ on the Lutron web site regarding buzzing with magnetic low voltage fixtures, and they recommend a lamp debuzzing coil item LDC-10-TCP. What's interesting is that they warn the coil itself will buzz and to make sure it is located outside of the room. Anyone have any experiences with this item?


----------



## BillW

Buzzing can sometimes be corrected by changing the bulb brand (I like GE). If that doesn't work it's because the fixture manufacture uses cheap transformers. Good magnetic transformers are by far the most expensive part of the fixture. I will only install Lightolier 200AICV which cost me about 76.00, or if the budget allows Iris P3MR which costs me about 148.00. The Iris has a dual tap transformer which allows the correct voltage to reach the bulb even when a dimmer is used, and a beautifully designed aiming mechanism. I'm not familiar with Topaz.


Bill


----------



## dhumphress

Hi,


I just purchased a Grafik Eye 3104 on eBay with the intention of using it in my Homeworks system but now I'm worried that it might not be compatible. Homeworks Interactive lists GRX-IA models which according to the top of this thread corresponds to the 3500 series.


Am I screwed?


Thanks!

Danny


----------



## DMF

Yes. 3100 series doesn't understand the commands issued by Homeworks.


----------



## dhumphress

Oh well, back to eBay with it! Unless, of course, anyone here wants to buy a 3104 for what I paid ($310).


----------



## Bardman

dhumphress, what color? I've been eyeing a 2404, but from what I see, a 3104 is virtually the same, only better expandibility.


----------



## dhumphress

The base is white and the top translucent cover is black.


----------



## dhumphress

If you are interested, you can email me. My email address is danny humphress at hot mail dot comm (no spaces -- you know what that means but hopefully spambots don't).


----------



## Bardman

You've got mail


----------



## dhumphress

Not from you! ;-) I didn't get anything.


----------



## JoelST

I asked this question on a separate thread but didn't get an answer from any of the resident experts so I will ask it here:


I want to control (including dimming) the rope lighting I will have in a ceiling tray built out from my soffits. Is best practive to hardwire the rope lighting to the grafik eye or to install a standard duplex receptacle up on the soffit face and wire it to the GE?


If I understand things correctly, NEC would prohibit wiring a standard receptacle to a dimmer switch but I have seen a few construction threads that mentioned adding a receptacle to a soffit to connect 110V rope lighting and controlling with a GE.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I'm getting ready to put lighting up and want to know how I should do the wiring. With a GE do I do one run from each light to the GE or bundle lights into zones and bring one wire for each zone to the GE?


----------



## atver

JoelST you can find your answer at the Lutron website under application notes, number 109 for dimming portable lamps via receptacles.


Thanks,


----------



## JoelST




> Quote:
> JoelST you can find your answer at the Lutron website under application notes, number 109 for dimming portable lamps via receptacles.



I had read about Lutron's dimmable receptacle but was unable to confirm from their literature whether the Grafik Eye was one of the specific Lutron dimmers that must be used with this receptacle. Can anyone confirm this?


A second issue with using Lutron's DFDU is the need to replace the rope light's plug with Lutron's RP-FDU-10 replacement plug. That would likely void the rope light warranty (not a huge issue to me) but if I have to bother with that, I would probably just cut the plug off and hard wire the thing. Am I missing something?


----------



## atver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoelST* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had read about Lutron's dimmable receptacle but was unable to confirm from their literature whether the Grafik Eye was one of the specific Lutron dimmers that must be used with this receptacle. Can anyone confirm this?



Yes it is, the NEC is concerned that someone would plug an appliance into this socket and cause safety issues. The special socket prevents this.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JoelST* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A second issue with using Lutron's DFDU is the need to replace the rope light's plug with Lutron's RP-FDU-10 replacement plug. That would likely void the rope light warranty (not a huge issue to me) but if I have to bother with that, I would probably just cut the plug off and hard wire the thing. Am I missing something?



You can use a small extension cord and plug the lights into it and change out the extension cord plug with the special plug.


I've ordered the special plug and socket for my install and they are not cheap!


Hope this helps!


----------



## Zocral

I am trying to decide whether to buy a GRX-3104 system, but I have a few questions first which I hope somebody can answer.


The system is supposed to control 4 groups (zones) of spotlight in addition to, eventually, motorized curtains (on/off). I would also like the possibility to program different scenes and control these scenes with a remote control. Will the GRX-3104 be able to do these operations?


Is it necessary to install wallstations for each group (zone) of spotlights, or can I connect all the wires in the controlunit? What kind of preparations must be done in order to later control the curtains?


----------



## DMILANI

I asked this a while back in another thread, but it never got an answer.


I have a 3104 with a full gray cover plate, including the flip up part. I also have the original white/translucent black cover. I would like to convert my gray cover to be gray on the bottom and have the translucent black flit cover.


I've tried before to remove the hinged cover, but cannot figure out how to do it without possibly breaking it. Has anyone had success doing this and if so how?


Thanks.


----------



## Jedi

.....rigging the GE for a remote IR flasher seems a bit archaic for this price level. It sure would make things a lot easier if Lutron equipped these units with a secondary 1/8" mini-plug IR input jack, accessible from a rear recess in the housing.


----------



## GrapeNuts

I am looking at picking up the GE this week. I am looking at a 3103-T to be mounted at the back of the room, and NTGRX-4S next to the front entrance. If I want to control these scenes with my Pronto, do I need to buy the NTGRX-4s-IR at $225, or can I get away with the NTGRX-4s at $130 and just point the pronto over the shoulder? I will be using the monster cable

grafik eye cable to go between the 3103-T and the accessory unit.


----------



## DMILANI

Anyone know?


Thanks,

-D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I asked this a while back in another thread, but it never got an answer.
> 
> 
> I have a 3104 with a full gray cover plate, including the flip up part. I also have the original white/translucent black cover. I would like to convert my gray cover to be gray on the bottom and have the translucent black flit cover.
> 
> 
> I've tried before to remove the hinged cover, but cannot figure out how to do it without possibly breaking it. Has anyone had success doing this and if so how?
> 
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone know?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -D



It just pulls off... It might feel like some of the tabs will break, that's because they actually might!!


Try prying gently with ther tips of your fingers from either the top or bottom...


----------



## DMILANI

Sorry, I must not have been clear. I want to remove the hinged part (flip up part) from one GE cover plate and exchange it with the hinged part of another. I know how to remove the actual cover plate from the unit itself 


Just talking about the hinged part here so I can take the translucent cover of one GE and replace it with the opaque cover of another GE.


Thanks anyway,

-D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It just pulls off... It might feel like some of the tabs will break, that's because they actually might!!
> 
> 
> Try prying gently with ther tips of your fingers from either the top or bottom...


----------



## macmedic

Has anyone seen the 20th Anniversary Edition GE?

If so does it have any new features other than separate control of shades and new button styling?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .....rigging the GE for a remote IR flasher seems a bit archaic for this price level. It sure would make things a lot easier if Lutron equipped these units with a secondary 1/8" mini-plug IR input jack, accessible from a rear recess in the housing.



You can't put it on the back or it would have to meet NEC specs (because it lives in a high-voltage box). Miniplugs don't meet NEC specs for that environment. And you don't want it on the front.


Besides, Lutron already sells remote IR pickups.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zocral* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The system is supposed to control 4 groups (zones) of spotlight in addition to, eventually, motorized curtains (on/off).



If it has a curtain control circuit that is not a "zone", I don't know about it. A curtain controller *can* live on the same data bus, but it is a separate entity. If I understand coorrectly, on the newest models a zone can be defined to manage a curtain controller, but I'm not sure that's available on the 3100 series.



> Quote:
> I would also like the possibility to program different scenes and control these scenes with a remote control. Will the GRX-3104 be able to do these operations?



Depends on what you want to do, and the nature of your remote. GE understands IR signals, but not RF.



> Quote:
> Is it necessary to install wallstations for each group (zone) of spotlights,



No. That's the Spacer system.



> Quote:
> or can I connect all the wires in the controlunit?



Yes. One cable per zone.



> Quote:
> What kind of preparations must be done in order to later control the curtains?



Don't know. Use the technical docs on the Lutron web site, or talk to a Lutron installation specialist.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm getting ready to put lighting up and want to know how I should do the wiring. With a GE do I do one run from each light to the GE or bundle lights into zones and bring one wire for each zone to the GE?



One per zone. The lumineres (lights) are daisy-chained.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, I must not have been clear. I want to remove the hinged part (flip up part) from one GE cover plate and exchange it with the hinged part of another.



That's the question Rick answered. The cover just snaps into the faceplate.


----------



## DMILANI

DMF, I don't think so.


Rick talks about prying from either the top or the bottom. That doesn't make sense. The hinges are only attached at the upper left/right corners of the cover. It seems as if everyone hear is still talking about just removing the entire cover (hinged top part and the fixed part below). Of course I can do this or else I wouldn't have been able to install it.


To be clear (I'm failing I think), I have two cover plates for my GE. One all grey that I bought separately to match my decor, and one that's white on the bottom and black translucent on the top (stock color that came with the original GE). I want to "make" a cover that's grey on the bottom and black translucent on the top. So I need to unhinge the flap on one and replace it with the flap on the other.


Is this still what everyone is talking about? If so, I'll shut up and just yank the thing off.


Thank again,

-D


----------



## cinemascope

I have not changed just the upper part of the cover...

I definitely thought that you were having trouble removing the entire cover.


You might be able to get the upper part off the cover wthoiut breaking it, but I wouldn't guarantee that it is possible...


----------



## DMF

You're right. I just looked at one. It's not the plastic hinge I thought, but a metal pin acting as the joint pivot. I don't see a way to get it out, unless you whittle the hinge down far enough to grab it.


----------



## mprusak

Have read this entire thread and many others and spent quite a bit of time on Lutron's site. It's starting to make more sense to me, but there are two questions I have not been able to get a clear understanding of:


Can the GE (probably a 3106) be wired from multiple circuits?


The way I have it drawn up now, my six zones would be:

Zone 1 - 7 can lights in theater area [CIRCUIT 1 (20A)]

Zone 2 - 3 can lights in front of screen [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]

Zone 3 - 5 Sconces [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]

Zone 4 - Rope Lights around stage and riser [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]

Zone 5 - 8 can lights in main basement area [CIRCUIT 3 (20A)]

Zone 6 - ??? possibly the bar area (also on separate circuit)


It has to be able to accept at least two, right? Otherwise the 2000 total watts could not be maximized.


Would really appreciate clarification on this point.



Second question...How do you wire rope lights the GE. Do rope lights get hard-wired directly to the GE just like the can lights?


Thanks very much for help with these questions and for all the great info in this thread...has been a huge help!


Mark


----------



## Stima




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mprusak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Second question...How do you wire rope lights the GE. Do rope lights get hard-wired directly to the GE just like the can lights?



Not 100% certain on your first question, but I CAN give you some advice. Whatever size AWG wire you use to power the Eye, the same size HAS to be used to wire all subsequent lights controlled by the Eye. This is a code thing as you don't want the Eye to be able to provide more power down stream than a cable can handle.



As far as the rope light question:


Since rope lights have a standard indoor extension cable looking wire...it is against code to hard wire that wire into a wall outlet. That wire is not rated to be in a wall or conduit. To get around this, I simply hard wired standard outlets (using Romex wire) to my Eye and plugged the rope lights cord into those outlets. I actually did the same for some "under cabinet" lights I used under my soffit. They both dim beautifully and do not hum since both are incandescent lights.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mprusak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can the GE (probably a 3106) be wired from multiple circuits?
> 
> 
> The way I have it drawn up now, my six zones would be:
> 
> Zone 1 - 7 can lights in theater area [CIRCUIT 1 (20A)]
> 
> Zone 2 - 3 can lights in front of screen [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
> 
> Zone 3 - 5 Sconces [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
> 
> Zone 4 - Rope Lights around stage and riser [CIRCUIT 2 (20A)]
> 
> Zone 5 - 8 can lights in main basement area [CIRCUIT 3 (20A)]
> 
> Zone 6 - ??? possibly the bar area (also on separate circuit)
> 
> 
> It has to be able to accept at least two, right? Otherwise the 2000 total watts could not be maximized.



A single 20A circuit can nominally supply 2400W. We use 80% or 1920W for safety.


You can drive the loads with multiple circuits, but only indirectly by using a power booster module such as NGRX-PB on the load side of the GE. So technically a single 3n06 can drive 6x1920W with a PB on each zone. (Or more; I think you can use multiple PBs on each zone.)


Unless your total load would exceed the capacity of a single circuit though, there is no need for more than one circuit. Your zone design is half finished. Calculate the maximum power consumption for each zone, then decide if you need boosters. I rather doubt that you do.


----------



## GrapeNuts

I need about 70ft of PELV cable for my system. Does anyone have extra that I could buy from them? I have a 3103 and need the 18 awg two twisted pair PELV cable to go from the GE to the accessory panel.

If anyone has some, please PM me.

I cut a corner and used 18 awg 4 conductor wire and they're not twisted pairs so I now fear that I will get communication problems.


----------



## mprusak




> Quote:
> A single 20A circuit can nominally supply 2400W. We use 80% or 1920W for safety.
> 
> 
> You can drive the loads with multiple circuits, but only indirectly by using a power booster module such as NGRX-PB on the load side of the GE. So technically a single 3n06 can drive 6x1920W with a PB on each zone. (Or more; I think you can use multiple PBs on each zone.)
> 
> 
> Unless your total load would exceed the capacity of a single circuit though, there is no need for more than one circuit. Your zone design is half finished. Calculate the maximum power consumption for each zone, then decide if you need boosters. I rather doubt that you do.



OK, so I calculated my total load...as you suggest, I would be well under the safe total of 1920 W. However, per local code, I am limited to 10 fixtures per circuit, which brings me back to needing three separate circuits.


So, these power boosters are my option around this? I'll have to start looking into them.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## DMF

I wonder if a "fixture" under the rule refers to high-voltage (120V) devices? You can get recessed lights that run off a single step-down transformer (vs. the more common model of a transformer in each can). The lights themselves never see more than 12V. That might count as one fixture. LV track lights do it that way. Does each bulb on the track count as a fixture? What about each tube in an fluorescent fixture?


Might be a question worth asking an inspector.


----------



## mprusak

If one is using the two-box method, is it still neccesary to use the extra deep boxes? I'm thinking since I am using EMT conduit (no grounding wires) and two boxes, that standard boxes should be fine...sound right?


Thanks,


Mark


----------



## mprusak

One more question/clarification...I can use 1 power booster to feed two different zones on the GE, right?


----------



## DMF

No. One Power Booster per zone. The zone controls the PB, the PB does not "feed" the zone(s).


You might be able to get by with a standard box, but I recommend the deep box anyway. Why would you not want to use the deep box??


Remember, the second box doesn't have to be a 4-gang box (or whatever size is appropriate for your GE). It just has to be big enough for all the wires that go into it. (See the posts about calculating "box fill". A 4 11/16" square, deep box will handle the wiring for 6 zones. Also be sure that the second box is exposed and accessible.


----------



## DMF

Replacement faceplates for Grafik Eye are available at Electric Supply Online , priced between $32 and $45. Both translucent and opaque in standard colors.


----------



## apaladini

I've been told by some custom installers that Grafik Eye 3106 can be wired directly into a DIMMABLE Electronic Low-Voltage Transformer, without the need of the ELVI-1000. Has anybody seen/heard of such an installation?


----------



## BillW

I would call Lutron before assuming that would work. I'm aware that some of the new electronic transformers will work with line voltage dimmers, but have not run into an installation where these new electronic ballasts were used and I was installing a G.E. Let us know what you find out.


Bill


----------



## Jedi

....if one is using 14 ga stranded wires for the 120V wiring runs from the controller to the second box for each zone, is it considered good practice to use crimp-on spade lugs to make with the screw terminal connections on the GE?


----------



## BillW

The G.E. clamps down on the wire when the screw is tightened so a forked terminal is unnecessary.


----------



## Winkelmann

Whenever I see products like this, I'm drawn back to the time of mainframe computors, clunky four button remotes, and those huge wall intercoms of the past.


Though, I like to max out my power amps & screens, I tend to be minimalistic with my lighting controls. There must be products available that don't scream for attention, are there?


Winkelmann


----------



## DMF

Sounds like a personal problem to me.




Fwiw, miniaturization of power control products has never tracked that of logic products. Maybe a 1967 mainframe will now fit on your tie clasp (you remember ties, don't you), but a 1kVA transformer is still a 20 lb. lump of metal.


----------



## BillW

Look at the Colorado Vnet stuff. Their controls are not smaller but they do blend in better.


----------



## FThera

OK...So I was all set to use the Spacer System for my lighting control until I started reading this thread about the GE. I'm interested but think there might be some limitations that would rule out GE in favor of the Spacer System, but I'm open to suggestions.


I'm finishing a large room in my walkout level that will include a HT, wetbar, kitchen and game table area. This room is at the bottom of the stairs and provides access (walk through) to some guest BR's, home office, and workshop.


I am ending up with 9 lighting zones that need control, but several of those zones need to be switchable from two locations, and a couple from three. The stair lights need to be controled from three (3) locations, and I can't get low voltage wiring to one of those areas without some SERIOUS demolition (that is not going to happen).


So I need light control at 4 different locations, one of which is at the top of the stairs, with no access for low voltage wiring. Using Spacer System I can do it for about $800 in controls.


Is it even possible to do this with the GE?


One advantage I see in using Spacer System, is that the switches can be easily used by guests (and the Mrs.) without any learning curve. I'm not sure the same holds true for the GE. But I hope you guys will fill me in.


Thanks in advance


Frank


----------



## Overlord66

I just ordered a 3104 and I am working out my wiring plan now. Initially I'm not going to install any keypads but I want to be able to add them in the future. I read in the manual that all accessories need to be daisy chained using the PELV cable. Is it possible to to run homeruns to the accessories that all come back to a junction box above the GE unit. My plan was to run smurf tube to all of the future wall plate locations then pull the PELV once the keypads are installed. Also has anyone installed a dimmable receptacle as a zone on their GE?


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Overlord66* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My plan was to run smurf tube to all of the future wall plate locations then pull the PELV once the keypads are installed.



Many areas do not allow smurf tubing for high voltage boxes... Even though the cable and accessory controls are LV, it ultimately needs to be mated to an HV box at the GRX location.



> Quote:
> Also has anyone installed a dimmable receptacle as a zone on their GE?



If you do this, be sure to set the zone up for the appropriate load, and PLEASE use a dimming receptacle with the "lump" that requires you to change out the lamp cord with the special mating plug.


That way you will prevent a house guest, housekeeper, etc. from plugging a vacuum cleaner, air conditioner, TV. etc. into a dimmed outlet.


Dimmed outlets + electronics/motors/compressors = smoke.


----------



## Overlord66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Many areas do not allow smurf tubing for high voltage boxes... Even though the cable and accessory controls are LV, it ultimately needs to be mated to an HV box at the GRX location.
> 
> 
> 
> If you do this, be sure to set the zone up for the appropriate load, and PLEASE use a dimming receptacle with the "lump" that requires you to change out the lamp cord with the special mating plug.
> 
> 
> That way you will prevent a house guest, housekeeper, etc. from plugging a vacuum cleaner, air conditioner, TV. etc. into a dimmed outlet.
> 
> 
> Dimmed outlets + electronics/motors/compressors = smoke.




Yes I plan on getting Lutrons receptacle with the lump. Whats the best way to terminate the LV in the junction box? Can I just use Wire nuts or is there a better way?


----------



## DMF

Wire nuts work fine if you use the right sizes. The wires are 18 AWG (power), 22 (signal), 24 (drain).


But I have to ask why? The only two things they should ever terminate to are a wallstation, with its own connectors, and another PELV cable for a splice. But you said you're planning on end-running rather than daisy chaining.


IMO, if you're going to set the wallstation boxes now, then you should wire them now - without smurf tube. (If you must do conduit, do metal.) You can do end-run, but that takes a lot of cable and the Lutron PELV isn't cheap. To daisy-chain without installing a wallstation, just pull a loop down into the box and leave it. Then cut the loop when you install the wallstation.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FThera* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK...So I was all set to use the Spacer System for my lighting control until I started reading this thread about the GE. ...
> 
> 
> I am ending up with 9 lighting zones that need control, but several of those zones need to be switchable from two locations, and a couple from three. The stair lights need to be controled from three (3) locations, and I can't get low voltage wiring to one of those areas without some SERIOUS demolition (that is not going to happen).
> 
> 
> So I need light control at 4 different locations, one of which is at the top of the stairs, with no access for low voltage wiring. Using Spacer System I can do it for about $800 in controls.
> 
> 
> Is it even possible to do this with the GE?
> 
> 
> One advantage I see in using Spacer System, is that the switches can be easily used by guests (and the Mrs.) without any learning curve. I'm not sure the same holds true for the GE. But I hope you guys will fill me in.



The essential difference is that Grafik Eye adds digital control to your lighting, while Spacer System is strictly manual. Anything you can do with SS you can do with GE, and GE can do much more.


Your application is a complex one. The questions are, what do you need it to do, and how easily/cheaply can that be done? For newbies, half the battle is learning what you can do with Grafik Eye. Your design will evolve as you do. If you have the time you can continue your learning curve (there's lots more to learn). Or you can hire someone who knows the system's capabilities while you concentrate on defining what you want to accomplish. I'll make some comments for you to consider.


The sole advantage of Spacer System is that it retrofits to an existing room with little additional work. Since you are finishing (most of) your room, that advantage disappears. When you do the final costing, SS can be a bit cheaper than the equivalent GE, but it can also be more expensive.


That location you "can't get to" with LV? How much you want to bet?










You might end up with a mixed system, and with 9 zones to control you will need at least two GEs. But that's not a difficult design issue since GEs talk to each other and the second one can be made to act as a direct extension of the first.


There's no need to expose the GE as a general-use control. It can be placed in a closet and the scenes selected by wallstation or remote control - IR or RF.


There are 16 directly addressable scenes in a GE, and with two there can be considerably more, depending on how the two are linked.


Walk-through lighting (including the stairway) can be handled in an integrated GE (not Spacer) system by defining a scene that brings up the walk-through zone while leaving the other zones untouched, and another scene that takes the walk-through zone down while leaving the other zones untouched. No need for three- (or four-) way wiring.


There is a vast array of wallstations (switches, keypads) for GE, many two-button. Surely some one of them will satisfy...










By adding a GRX-PRG to the system, you add computer programming and control, and an astronomical clock. One of the coolest features of such a system is that you can bring up the ambient lighting around dark so you never have to enter a dark room.


There are also occupancy sensors that will turn on the lights when you enter a zone (e.g. the stairway) without manual action at all.


For various reasons, target the 3500 series rather than the 3100 or 2000 series, if at all possible.


----------



## Overlord66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wire nuts work fine if you use the right sizes. The wires are 18 AWG (power), 22 (signal), 24 (drain).
> 
> 
> But I have to ask why? The only two things they should ever terminate to are a wallstation, with its own connectors, and another PELV cable for a splice. But you said you're planning on end-running rather than daisy chaining.
> 
> 
> IMO, if you're going to set the wallstation boxes now, then you should wire them now - without smurf tube. (If you must do conduit, do metal.) You can do end-run, but that takes a lot of cable and the Lutron PELV isn't cheap. To daisy-chain without installing a wallstation, just pull a loop down into the box and leave it. Then cut the loop when you install the wallstation.




Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to look over my setup again and see if I can plan it out a little differantly. Any ideas on the best place to find Lutron PELV or the Liberty Green. I don't need alot so I would probably buy it by the foot.


----------



## DMF

Where are you? (Please update your profile.)


----------



## Overlord66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where are you? (Please update your profile.)




I'm in Montana. I found some of the Belden 4 conductor for around .32 a foot


----------



## absolutezerok

Let me know if I need to start a new thread:

Can anyone point me to an electrician or service that can install a Graphic Eye in Mckinney TX? I've called a few places and had no luck.


----------



## FThera




> Quote:
> Your application is a complex one. The questions are, what do you need it to do, and how easily/cheaply can that be done? For newbies, half the battle is learning what you can do with Grafik Eye. Your design will evolve as you do. If you have the time you can continue your learning curve (there's lots more to learn). Or you can hire someone who knows the system's capabilities while you concentrate on defining what you want to accomplish. I'll make some comments for you to consider.



Any suggestions besides this site to continue my learning curve?



> Quote:
> That location you "can't get to" with LV? How much you want to bet?



Nope











> Quote:
> You might end up with a mixed system, and with 9 zones to control you will need at least two GEs. But that's not a difficult design issue since GEs talk to each other and the second one can be made to act as a direct extension of the first.



Do you mean Space and GE mixed, or two GE's?



> Quote:
> Walk-through lighting (including the stairway) can be handled in an integrated GE (not Spacer) system by defining a scene that brings up the walk-through zone while leaving the other zones untouched, and another scene that takes the walk-through zone down while leaving the other zones untouched. No need for three- (or four-) way wiring.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a vast array of wallstations (switches, keypads) for GE, many two-button. Surely some one of them will satisfy...



Are there more controls than are shown on the Lutron website?



> Quote:
> There are also occupancy sensors that will turn on the lights when you enter a zone (e.g. the stairway) without manual action at all.



I didn't see them on the Lutron site. Did I miss something



> Quote:
> For various reasons, target the 3500 series rather than the 3100 or 2000 series, if at all possible.



[/quote]


I assume you mean the 3506 vs the 3106, correct?


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Hi all,


I just purchased a new Grafik Eye 3104 off of eBay and was shopping around for accessories at a reasonable price and found Hank's Electric Supply at www.hankselectric.com 


You might want to give it a try if you need Grafik Eye accessories.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## atver

I purchased my Grafik Eye from Hanks Electric and found them very dependable with good prices.


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Hi atver,


Thanks for the response.


Looks like I made a good choice for a supplier of Grafik Eye components.


I purchased a metal four gang wall box, 50 ft of two twisted pair cable and one of the wired SeeTouch keypads.


The SeeTouch keypad is being dropped shipped from Lutron. Will Lutron have me send the keys caps back for engraving since there was no method of specifying what to engrave on the keys on Hank's Electric website?


I plan to do a bench top check out of the Grafik Eye and the SeeTouch keypad before installation in my new home theater.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## BillW




Thomas J. Coyle said:


> Hi atver,
> 
> 
> The SeeTouch keypad is being dropped shipped from Lutron. Will Lutron have me send the keys caps back for engraving since there was no method of specifying what to engrave on the keys on Hank's Electric website?
> 
> 
> No. They will send you a new front. It's very easy to snap off the original one to replace it with the new engraved one.
> 
> 
> The engraving documents are on the Lutron website, and I think it's .30 cents a letter plus a set up fee, the amount of which escapes my feeble memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## chall87

Ok, I'm finally getting ready to take the plunge. The one last item I'm struggling a bit with is whether to get the 3106 or the 3506 since I've found at least one internet merchant selling them for the same price. The 3106 is all I probably need for now since I'm not ready to plunk even more money down for the GRX-PRG or GRX-232 to program the 3506. It might be nice to have this option however in the future. My question is whether the 3506 has everything the 3106 has plus more. Just wondering if I'd be giving up anything in the near term by going with the 3506. Appreciate any feedback others might have that considered both units.


----------



## Winkelmann

I plan on picking up the 3506.


Two Question:


Has anybody posted their lighting layout (diagram) on the forum? If so, got a link?


Lastly, has anyone done business with www.electricsuppliesonline.com ?


My local supplier's prices are through the roof compared to theirs.


Thanks,

Winkelmann


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Winkelman,


In my opinion, www.hankselectric.com has better pricing than even www. electricsuppliesonline.com.


Just a thought.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## chall87

I just picked up a 3506 from www.dimmers.net On their website they didn't have this model listed but I phoned their customer service number and spoke to JR who was able to get me one at a great price matching one of the other low internet merchants I found. Unit was drop shipped direct from Lutron and took only 2 days to arrive (excluding Xmas holiday & weekend). JR was great to deal with and I also ordered a wallstation from him. They were also the only place I could find the special Lutron cable to wire up a wall station that I could buy by the foot (only needed 35 feet).


Incidently I love the 3506. I'm controlling it from a Harmony 880 remote and the setup is excellent for the money. I opted for the 3506 to give me more fine grain control of the lighting levels (1% increments) and future control from PC should I ever want to get more sophisticated. Cost wasn't that much more than the 3106 I was considering. The unit is nicely designed and built. Installation was relatively easy. I liked that the terminal screws for the wire connections came all the way out faciltating sliding a wire in and then tightening down. Their other dimmers have screw terminals that loosen only and require wrapping a wire around the screw terminal which can be a real pain with 12 guage wire. A 3 1/2 inch deep box is a must. I have the nail on version which is slightly tapered in the back reducing some of the volume.


----------



## BillW

The 3100 series are also dimmable in 1% incremnts. However since it's display does not reflect that (having only the 6 or is it 7 indicator lights) it's not as easy to work with.


----------



## Brent Wolverton

Thank you for all your hard work. This forum is great. One question, what is the purpose of the NTGRX-4M? For turning off all the lights the NTGRX-4S seems to have an "all off". Do I need a NTGRX-4M at the entrance to turn them all on again or can a simply use scene 1 on the NTGRX-4S?


----------



## Brent Wolverton

Thank you for all your hard work. This forum is great. One question, what is the purpose of the NTGRX-4M? For turning off all the lights the NTGRX-4S seems to have an "all off". Do I need a NTGRX-4M at the entrance to turn them all on again or can a simply use scene 1 on the NTGRX-4S?


----------



## DMF

Yes.


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes.



Huh... which question were you answering?


----------



## krfuquamd

Could someone tell me if Grafik Eye would work in this scenario and which model I would need.? I want to control the lights in a room in my basement I am turning into a media room. Right now in that room i have 3 light switches side by side on the wall, one controls the sconces(4), 1 controls the front 4 recessed ceiling cans and the other controls the back 2 recessed cans plus the recessed can at the bottom of the stairs just before you enter the room proper( cased opening, no door ). I have another switch there on the wall that used to control the ceiling fan which has been taken down and i plan to use that wiring for some type of rope lighting under the riser.


I'd like to have 4 zones of lighting in the room, each zone matching one of the original 3 switches plus the 4th being the rope lighting and I'd like to be able to just hit a button on my Universal Remote MX-850 and have these zones respond in unison to different levels, i.e. all off except rope lighting at minimal level when I hit play for DVD or all on when I hit stop, etc..


I don't expect to expand beyond the above. Screen is fixed, no windows. It would be nice if there was a way to have a switch at the bottom of the stairs that if I hit it it would turn all the lights on so I could enter room and Find the remote!!


Sorry for being longwinded, I'm new to this and wanted to make sure I gave adequate info.


Thanks,


krfuquamd


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

krfuquamd,


A Grafik Eye 3104 will work with what you have in mind. It has four zones and a minimum of four scenes. It is designed for a four gang extra deep wallbox.


You can use a SGRX-4S at the bottom of the stairs to turn on the first scene before you enter the room. It is hardwired to the 3104 using a four wire cable.


The 3104 will have to mounted out in the media room where the built-in IR sensor can be seen. Otherwise you can hardwire a GRX-IRI remote IR sensor to the 3104 so the 3104 can be mounted elsewhere.


Hope this helps.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## krfuquamd

Thanks TCIII, sounds perfect for what I want to do. Do you recommend a particular place to purchase these items online??


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

krfuquamd,


I purchased my 3104 off of eBay for a very reasonable price. The selection varies with time. The eBay stores selling the Grafik Eye dimmers and accessories are way over priced!


However, www.hankselectric.com and www.dimmers.net both have very good discount prices on the 3000/4000 series of dimmers and their accessories.


If Hanks Electric does not carry a Lutron Grafik Eye item, they can special order them.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## Jason Pancake

I'm planning on using low voltage lighting in my lighting scheme. For one of my zones I'll have recessed lights that goes around the room in the soffits. How does this work with a 3104?


----------



## neekos

Just started researching lighting options.


Anyone have a pic of a Pelv cable ? Also, if I chose to have one wall plate, does the pelv cable connect directly to the wall plate and the wall plate directly to the light ? if so, the wall plate will need its own line rather than coming off the controller ?


----------



## tlwarnke

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV.


----------



## Winkelmann

Here's a wiring diagram, in color to boot!

 

ge_wiring.pdf 212.3642578125k . file


----------



## neekos

that's great. Thanks


What does the power booster do , and why is it for zone 2 in the diagram ?


----------



## Winkelmann

I think the booster is primarily for magnetic transformers like those used for some low voltage and florescent light fixtures. But, we don't use florescent for theaters... do we?


----------



## neekos

no, no...we don't


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the booster is primarily for magnetic transformers like those used for some low voltage and florescent light fixtures. But, we don't use florescent for theaters... do we?



In that diagram the booster is NOT for a magnetic transformer. HERE is my original post where I posted the diagram. This booster is to spread the lighting load to more circuits off of the main breaker panel in order to meet local code requirements.


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlwarnke* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV.



While Cat5 will "work", you should check with your local building inspector to see if it is acceptable for your area. See the 4th post in this thread, here , for a listing of the part numbers for the correct wire to use.


----------



## krfuquamd

Has anyone used Grafik Eye to control and dim LED rope light?? I've purchased the 3104 and would like to zone 4 be the rope lighting under the lip of the riser and riser steps. LED rope light appeals to me because it lasts a long time and it generates little if any heat. I called Lutron and they said i needed a LUT-LBX which is needed because the rope lighting pulls such a small current I guess. Does anyone have any experience with this? I could just use incadescent rope lighting but wanted to consider LED if possible. The LED rope I'm looking at is 120V 1/2".


Thanks


krfuquamd


----------



## r00ster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krfuquamd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone used Grafik Eye to control and dim LED rope light?? I've purchased the 3104 and would like to zone 4 be the rope lighting under the lip of the riser and riser steps. LED rope light appeals to me because it lasts a long time and it generates little if any heat. I called Lutron and they said i needed a LUT-LBX which is needed because the rope lighting pulls such a small current I guess. Does anyone have any experience with this? I could just use incadescent rope lighting but wanted to consider LED if possible. The LED rope I'm looking at is 120V 1/2".
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> krfuquamd




I am using a 3106 and it works fine with my blue LED rope light.


Drew


----------



## krfuquamd

Drew,


Thanks for the response. Did you in fact need a LUT-LBX or any other interface because of the small current the rope lighting pulls?


Kevin


----------



## r00ster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krfuquamd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Drew,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the response. Did you in fact need a LUT-LBX or any other interface because of the small current the rope lighting pulls?
> 
> 
> Kevin




Nope I did not need the LUT-LBX. My rope light was 120v and plugged into a standard receptacle so I wired one to zone 5 of the 3106 and it works great.


Drew


----------



## krfuquamd

Drew,


Perfect!! That is what I wanted to hear. I just ordered 120v LED rope lighting from novelty lights.


Kevin


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlwarnke* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can use standard cat5 cable for PELV.



NO, you cannot. Two reasons: 1) It is against code to have a low voltage cable enter the same box as high voltage cable _unless_ the LV cable has the same rated insulation as HV cable. Cat5 does not.


2) PELV is shielded; cat5 is not. cat5 acts as an antenna both transmitting and receiving noise.


Cat5 is designed to be used in a balanced differential circuit. It is NOT for general purpose use.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krfuquamd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Perfect!! *That is what I wanted to hear.* I just ordered 120v LED rope lighting from novelty lights.



You'll believe him but you won't believe Lutron Tech Support? They were right. If you only accept the answer you want to hear, there's no point in even asking the question. Is there?


The Grafik Eye spec is a minimum of 25W per zone. If your rope lights don't draw 25W then you will need the unit that Lutron specified.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jason Pancake* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm planning on using low voltage lighting... How does this work with a 3104?



Depends on the type of LV lighting. For units with a step-down transformer (magnetic LV) you need to do nothing except set the type when you set up the zone.


From the 3100 Installation instructions (which you would do well to read):


"*Load Types*

The Control Units can control incandescent, halogen (tungsten), magnetic low-voltage, and neon/cold cathode load types. Electronic low-voltage and fluorescent load types can be controlled with an appropriate interface.

* All Electronic Low-Voltage (ELV) lighting used with the Electronic Low-Voltage Interface must be rated for *reverse phase-control dimming*. Before installing an ELV light source, verify with the manufacturer that their transformer

can be dimmed. When dimming, an Electronic Low-Voltage Interface *MUST* be used with the Control Unit."


ELV uses a switching power supply like those used in PCs. ELV supplies are typically smaller and lighter than MLV supplies. If you're not sure of the type, ask the manufacturer.


An ELV Interface is a separate box that is wired into the GE.


----------



## krfuquamd

DMF,


Thanks.


----------



## mprusak

I got my 3106 installed over the weekend. It was a two-box installation plus two power boosters (to allow for using 3 circuits). It seems to be working great!


Question - I have two zones that I am currently not using. Is it ok to have these set to on/off and just keep them off and do not use at all?


There is the min 25W per zone, so I wasn't 100% sure. Though I assume that the 25 W applies to zones that you are actually using.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Cherokee180c

I posted this question about lighting and the grafic eye in another section, but got no help. Can anybody in here comment please?


I am about to start building a multipurpose HT room. It is in the basement with concrete walls. I have decided to spend the money on green glue on the ceiling only as I am more concerned with sound transmission to the upper floors as my basement is all underground. I will also insulate the ceiling behind the green glue drywall. Here are my questions:


1. Will I lose a lot or all of the gains from the green glue if I cut in standard 6" recessed lights in the HT area?


2. If so, what kind/brand of lights can I use to simulate a recessed light that is surface mounted?


3. I plan to have basically 3 types of lighting in the HT part of the room; recessed lights, wall sconces and rope lighting (behind crown molding shining on the ceiling and maybe behind the 100" diagonal front projector screen. I want to be able to dim all of these lights and have setpoint scene capability. Do I need a light controller like the graphic eye, or can I control this environment fine by using a gang box of the Lutron maestro IR dimmers with the 4 theme setpoints? I have a single Lutron IR dimmer upstairs and use my Harmony remote right now to control it, so I understand the basics of this setup. At what point should you move up to the graphic eye, or what capability determines the need for that system?


Thanks,


Dave


----------



## Overlord66

I just installed a grafik eye in my media room and it's working great. I'm now anoid that I can't dim the light in the stairway and am contemplating installing a Spacer or a Maestro dimmer in this location. Are the IR codes for the spacer or maestro going to interfer with my grafik eye? Also I looked and didn't see anything but do they make a stand alone dimmer that can communicate with the GE through the PELV interface?


----------



## Cherokee180c

Are all the individual lighting circuits addressable with the GE? Ie can you turn on and off each light individually with IR commands that are unique for each circuit? I plan to use a Harmony 880 or 1000 to control everything.


----------



## BillW

Use insulated ceiling housing because it will reduce the amount of sound let thru. Iris recessed housings are double walled, and very well made, which helps. The maestro dimmers all share the same IR codes so having multiple dimmers in one room is not a great idea (unless you want all of them to do the same thing at the same time). The GE is a good, robust system with excellent tech support.


Hope that helps,

Bill


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mprusak* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question - I have two zones that I am currently not using. Is it ok to have these set to on/off and just keep them off and do not use at all?
> 
> 
> There is the min 25W per zone, so I wasn't 100% sure. Though I assume that the 25 W applies to zones that you are actually using.



Yes and yes.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cherokee180c* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are all the individual lighting circuits addressable with the GE? Ie can you turn on and off each light individually with IR commands that are unique for each circuit?



No. Each *zone* is controllable. A zone may consist of one or many light fixtures. Zones themselves are not remote controllable*. The remote selects scenes, or combinations of zone presets.



* Check out the GRX-IRI, an accessory for the 3000 series GE. It provides additional remote capabilities, including remote control of individual zones, if you have a more-capable remote. If you're headed in this direction, use the 3500 series Grafik Eye.


----------



## neekos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In that diagram the booster is NOT for a magnetic transformer. HERE is my original post where I posted the diagram. This booster is to spread the lighting load to more circuits off of the main breaker panel in order to meet local code requirements.




can someone please help me with this question?


I am new at learning the GE. If what the diagram shows is accurate, and the wiring goes from the GE to the light fixtures, what is the purpose of the wall stations? Is it just to send the command the the GE ? Also, how many fixtures can there be in one zone ?


Please pardon the newbie question to this arena.


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

DMF,


I have a GRX-IRI and it is designed to work with an IR blaster to allow an IR control system, such as the JDS IRXpander, to control the GE.


The GRX-IRI is wall box mountable and the IR blaster adheres to the back of the module.


Hope this helps.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

neekos,


The wall stations allow you to remotely operate the GE without having to go to the controller panel which may be mounted in an equipment closet.


They mount in a single gang enclosure and can be put at the entrance of a room to manually initiate a lighting scene when entering.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No. Each *zone* is controllable. A zone may consist of one or many light fixtures. Zones themselves are not remote controllable. The remote selects scenes, or combinations of zone presets.
> 
> 
> Check the GRX-IRI, an accessory for the 3500(?) series GE. It may provide additional remote capabilities.



I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post...


Back to Cherokee180, you can iaddress the zones of a 3500 series (aka IA series) Grafik Eye individually through RS-232 protocol if you have the GRX-RS232 or the GRX-PRG PC control (and a controller that can output serial commands).


Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX.


----------



## neekos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thomas J. Coyle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> neekos,
> 
> 
> The wall stations allow you to remotely operate the GE without having to go to the controller panel which may be mounted in an equipment closet.
> 
> 
> They mount in a single gang enclosure and can be put at the entrance of a room to manually initiate a lighting scene when entering.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> TCIII




Thanks Thomas


----------



## red5908




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post...
> 
> 
> Back to Cherokee180, you can iaddress the zones of a 3500 series (aka IA series) Grafik Eye individually through RS-232 protocol if you have the GRX-RS232 or the GRX-PRG PC control (and a controller that can output serial commands).
> 
> 
> Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX.



I think DMF described it correctly. Individual ZONES are dimmable. A SCENE contains a particular setting for each ZONE.


The standard GE IR interface only allows you to select SCENES.


Using the GRX-IRI you can raise and lower each ZONE and save and recall all 16 SCENES. You also have a master raise and lower and all off control.


----------



## Winkelmann

Who has a source or a recommended substitute for the structured GE plenum cable? I'm looking for 20 feet.


Winkelmann


----------



## neekos

ditto


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Winkelmann/neekos,


Try www.hankselectric.com/item156207.ctlg 


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## Winkelmann

Stellar!


Thanks


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you meant SCENE in place of zone for your post...



No, I meant that the zone is controllable. You can raise and lower each zone at will, from the front panel or a data interface. You _cannot_ control individual fixtures (as the OP asked) unless you dedicate a zone to each one.


Zones are not individually _remote_-controllable (without -IRI), which is probably what you're thinking about.



> Quote:
> Also, just to clarify, the GRX-IRI works on any 3100, 3500, MR, or IA series GRX.



Yes, it will work, but the 3100/MR does not understand the full set of 'Pro IR' commands that the -IRI implements. In the case of individual zone controls, the 3100 _does_ understand them (I had to look it up), so you are more nearly correct than I was.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thomas J. Coyle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hope this helps.



Yes. Thanks.


One'a these days I'll add one to my system. The only cooler accessory is the GRX-PRG with its astronomical clock.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neekos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> how many fixtures can there be in one zone ?



That depends. On a basic GE, each zone can handle 800W, so the number of fixtures can be anything that has a total rating less than 801W. Add a power booster to the zone and can have many more.

However, local building codes may limit the number of fixtures. I don't recall where it was, but one guy recently told about the local code restricting the number of fixtures to 10 *per breaker*. That would 10 total on a GE with a dedicated breaker! (You can get around it with power boosters and more breakers.) Check the code first. Chicago and New York areas are notorious for abnormal electrical codes.


----------



## merc4a2

I bought a 500 ft spool of the cable made for 4000 series GX, but only used about 50 ft. I'll sell by the foot for $0.30/ft. It works fine with the 3000 series also.


----------



## merc4a2

Where is a good source for the GRX-PRG?


----------



## merc4a2

Does anyone know if the GRX-CIR-WH accepts the advanced codes that the GRX-IRI does? I want to use a Harmony 800 pointed at a GRX-CIR-WH, but like the idea of being able to control individual zones...


----------



## Winkelmann

This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Winkelmann,


Try this: http://www.hankselectric.com/item156206.ctlg 


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## Winkelmann

Thanks again Thomas. But, the box is even a smaller width than what I found locally.

FYI, Hanks might have better prices on supplies, but, their shipping prices are the highest I've ever encountered - I'm talking ten times higher. In fact ground shipping for 100' of the wire you recommended was more than double the price of the wire. No thanks Hanks.


----------



## BillW

I have found the best box is the Raco 698 for the 4 gang applications and the 697 for the 3 gang applications. Any local electrical supply haouse should have them or could get them.


----------



## Overlord66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This may have been discussed, but, damned if I can find it. I couldn't track down the masonry box mentioned on the first page. So, will the gangable steel boxes work? The GE instruction manual recommends a 7.9" wide box; four gangable boxes are only 7.5" wide.




I used gangable boxes and they worked fine. I don't think the extra room on the side would have really helped. I wish they would have been a little deeper but there was nothing I could do about that.


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

Winkelmann,


At $.32/ft for the wire, that means that Hanks wanted to charge you $64.00 to ground ship 100 ft of the four conductor cable?


I purchased 50 ft of the four conductor cable and one of the four gang boxes and shipping was around $12 which is about normal for UPS ground.


My GE fit just fine in the four gang wall box from Hanks and I had plenty of room for all of the wiring entering the box.


Strange!


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## Winkelmann

To be exact *$39.53* (S/H).


----------



## mprusak

I got the 698 at Fox Electric Supply for less than $18...foxelectricsupply.com


Shipping was 7.50


Mark


----------



## Mr.Hander

Hello All,


After reading this thread, I have decided to incorporate a GRX-3506 in to my (under construction) home theater. I would like to control all my lighting through the use of a theater PC, with the Main Lobby Software. However, I am left a bit confused about how exactly to hook up my PC to the Grafik Eye. I understand that I first need to purchase a GRX-3506 seeing as how I want to control my lighting via PC and I need to control 6 zones.


What confuses me is what unit I need to go from the GE to the PC. As I read there are two options.

1.)GRX-RS232

2.)GRX-PRG


The way I'm reading it the GRX-PRG as the ability to control zones as well as scenes, where as the GRX-RS232 can only control scenes.

Additionally, the GRX-PRG has astronomic clock built in, where as the GRX-RS232 does not.


Seeing as how I don't really need to control individual zones, nor do I really have a need to use the astronomic clock I guess I would rather save the bucks. However if someone can post a list identifying what each can and can't do I may be swayed to purchase the GRX-PRG.


On the other-hand I could be Completely Wrong in my understanding of the GE.

Either way I need some help finding the right direction.


Thanks in advance for all the assistance,

Mark


----------



## jbeach3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some additions.
> 
> 
> Lutron's Spacer system can perform most of the same basic functions as Grafik Eye, but there is little cost advantage and installations of even moderate complexity can become unwieldy. It is rumored that Lutron will soon replace or retire the Spacer system.
> 
> 
> Other Grafik Eye series (4000, 5000, 6000, 7000) are designed for commercial or large-scale installations and should be considered for HT only by a professional.
> 
> 
> I think the MSRP on the 3506 is $1150.
> 
> 
> To add PC and RS-232 interfaces to the 3500 series one needs the GRX-PRG for about $800. It combines the RS-232 interface with a real-time clock so that the 3500 control unit can be programmed by a PC (Lutron has lighting control programs) and scheduled like a timer. One GRX-PRG can be used with up to 8 control units.
> 
> 
> Grafik Eye can be ordered in many standard colors. Special finishes such as bright brass or satin chrome can be had for an extra charge and a wait of 4-8 weeks. Faceplates are replacable, but cost $80-150.



I have an opportunity to get a Lutron 4116 on clearance for less than $200. That's significantly less than I can get any of the 3000 series Lutrons for, so I'm wondering if the comment about it being for commercial applications and needing professional installation was in order to use all of the capabilities it can provide.


I'm not wanting to hook this unit up to other control units, etc. I actually just want to use 4 zones and hook up the lighting directly to the unit. Basically, I'm hoping to "dumb this unit down" to the level of a 3104. Does anyone know if that is reasonable / possible?


----------



## CEDIAdude

You do not want to purchase a 4000 series Grafik Eye. By iteself, it is useless. It needs to be connected to a remote dimming panel (GP series, etc.) for it to actually do anything.


Stick with the 3100 series.


Also, any rumors about Lutron deciding to abandon Spacer system are news to me...


Rick S


----------



## jbeach3

Thanks for the info, CEDIAdude. I'm glad I asked first!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Grabbed a 3104 off e-bay at a price less than I thought the 2403 would be. There was a 3106 up at nice price also. Hope there is no fine print to that deal.


----------



## Thomas J. Coyle

dc_pilgrim,


I bought a new 3104 off of eBay a while back for about $200 off of the list price and have had no problems with it.


Though I did rig up a test fixture with four loads to check it out before I permanently installed it in my home theater.


Regards,

TCIII


----------



## DMF

They occasionally show up on eBay. There's a grey market in over-orders and replacements on commercial jobs.


mainstreetshowroom.com lists them for $580.


----------



## tek-noid

So, my 3106 was installed during the original construction and now I'm coming around to add the 1" insulation along the lower part of the wals and 1" batting on the top part.


Of course, the 3106 is mounted flush with the drywall, so what have others done in this case? Clearly I can cut the batting/fabric around the Eye and leave it recessed, but I'm not too keen on the looks of that.


Is there such a thing as a 4-gang extention box?


TIA


----------



## DMF

I think there are extension rings to most boxes, but which one you need depends on which box you used. Try to find that out.


Or perhaps the better part of valor is to cut into the wall and move the box forward on the stud. You don't even have to do the drywall repair well since it will be hidden.


----------



## BillW

If you used the standard deep masonry box it thould just be screwed to the stud from within the box. Turn off the power remove it from the box and take a look.


Bill


----------



## Stima

I have a 3106 and am using 4 of 6 zones for my home theater and 4 scenes. I want to add the hall lights to the system as a new zone and a new scene for them to only be on, but have already completed my wiring thus making this a "retro" install.


Currently, I have 3 switch locations for the halls lights. I have a 4-way switch located at the base of the stairs, and two 3-way switches at either end of the hall. (with the theater at one end of the hall)


Pie in the sky setup would be I could turn on the hall lights (a new scene with only the hall lights turned on) AND\\OR set the "entrance" scene in the home theater from any one of the 3 hall switches as well as from the 3106. (i.e. be able to set multiple scenes from the new wall switches)


Real world (minimum desire) would be I can turn on and off the hall lights from the 3 hall switches AND the home theater located base unit. (i.e. the wall switches would only be able to set 1 scene, and the hall lights would be that 1 scene)


Before I go and purchase items, I was hoping to get some confirmation here in regards to the best way to implement the new control\\zone and which accessories I should get to do that plan. Once I have a setup and know which accessories I need, I can then get into the age old "how to wire" questions.


Thanks all for the help!


----------



## DMF

I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.


This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. *Edit:* Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.


----------



## DMF

If you use fixed-time events in your lighting control system, you may be affected by the recent change to Daylight Saving Time (DST). Affecteds systems are those with a real-time clock, including Homeworks, Orion, RadioRA with Chronos, and Grafik Eye with accessories GRX-PRG, GRX-IA-PRG, GRX-ATC, or GRX-AV-RS232/ATC.


Lutron has several fixes for the DST change. If you are programming (or can program) the system with software such TCWin or Liaison, the fixes involve relatively simple settings changes. If you don't use a PC, Lutron has something they can send you. Not sure what it is, but it's free.


Go to the Lutron Service and Support page and click the 'Daylight Saving Time' pulldown.


----------



## Stima




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you'll need to use wallstations in place of the three switches, meaning 1) you will need to drop data cable to the switch boxes, 2) remove the existing NM from switch boxes, 3) run NM directly between the 3106 and the light(s)), 4) provide auxiliary power to the data bus.
> 
> 
> This assumes, of course, that the 3100 has a "not affected" setting for each scene's zone mapping so you can toggle the hall lights without affecting the other zones. I'll have to check to be sure. *Edit:* Yeah, you can. See page 8 of the GE installation manual.




So which wallstations should I consider? I am not certain which wallstation would allow me to control the theater lights from the hall switch. (IF that is even a possibility)


Also, you say "NM"...is that standard 2-#12 or is that the special Belikin cable I have read about?


I will look up page 8 as well and see if I can understand a bit more.1


----------



## oman321

NM is non metallic sheathed electrical cable. Determine wether you've been using 12 gauge or 14 gauge and get the appropiate length of 12-2 or 14-2 cable with ground to connect from the GE to the hallway light as DMF stated.


You should be able to use NTGRX-4S or the SG-4S-NL as wall stations that allow you to select scenes, obviously you would have to make your hallway light one of the scenes.

Check out the link below for the GE accesories. They also have wall stations with IR so you can select more than 4 scenes. What's fustrating is how expensive the wallstations are.

http://lutron.com/grafikeye/grx_acc.asp?s=&t=


----------



## Stima

Gotcha....NM is what I have been using. And since I powered my 3106 with 12-2, I will run a new feed using 12-2. (DMF pointed that code requirement out to me several months back)


Also, thx for clarifying which wall station I would use. I wasn't certain if I could use the 4S or needed the 4M.


So in a nutshell:


1) Run light power from the 3106 (connected to a new zone)

2) Install three new 4S's

3) Run a Belkin wire from the 3106 to each of the 3 new wall stations (not sure exactly how to connect...but I will read up on that install manual)


Thx again for the help.


----------



## DMF

'NM' : 'Romex' :: 'facial tissue' : 'Kleenex'.










You can use just about any wallstation. I'd gravitate toward the SeeTouch controls (SG-4S-) because they are internally lighted. A button label kit can be ordered as a future enhancement. If you can get a real deal on different wallstation, go for it since upgrading them is dead easy.


Daisy-chain the data cable. That's two ends into each wallstation except the last. Both pairs get hooked into the terminal plug, and the bare wires - the shield drain wires - are connected to each other but to nothing else.


The 3106 will power three wallstations or other accessories. See p.12 of the installation manual. I suggested the external supply because you have one already, don't you?


Be sure to remove the NM from the switch boxes. Leaving it there, even if it's dead, violates code. You can cut back to the sheath and just push it up into the wall.


----------



## Stima

NM is Romex...got it.
















No external power supply. I don't have any other accessories at the moment...so do I need it?


The only other thing I would some day add would be a contact closure for drapes.


Oh, and I still need to get the IR function working so I don't have to get up to hit the lights.










Looking on eBay right now. 90$ for the NTGRX-4S


Gonna keep looking for any better deals.


----------



## DMF

No, you don't need it (yet). All it is is a 12VDC wall wart capable of supplying 50ma per accessory (up to 16). GRX-12DC does that, but I think list price is $75. You can get a big one at RS for $18 and cut the plug off. (The 12V lead is not rated to enter a power box, so don't bring it in to the 3106 box.) It will need a socket, most conveniently on the same circuit as the GE, and running the lead down into a wallstation box is easier while you're also running data cable. But if you will add an accessory that doesn't live in a wall, you can add the power supply from there.


I started looking into what it takes to add shade control. Definitely not as simple as adding a GRX-AV, as you'll find out. It really depends on the nature of the shade controller. Lutron's more recent stuff looks easier (and cheaper) to implement.


----------



## BillW

I was talking to Lutron this Monday (I was leaking current from one of the MUX wires to the foil shield







) when the rep mentioned that they are coming out with a new G.E. that incorporates shade control!! I didn't think to ask when, sorry.


Bill


----------



## DMF

The newer 3000s - actually been on the market for a about a year? without a number change - incorporate Sivoia shade controller as a load type. (Dang controllers are mucho expensivo, though, so I wasn't considering one (would have to get a new GE too).)


Did you find the cause of the leak? How did you figure out that was happening? What were the symptoms? I Am Curious Yellow.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The newer 3000s - actually been on the market for a about a year? without a number change - incorporate Sivoia shade controller as a load type. (Dang controllers are mucho expensivo, though, so I wasn't considering one (would have to get a new GE too).)
> 
> 
> Did you find the cause of the leak? How did you figure out that was happening? What were the symptoms? I Am Curious Yellow.



The new ones (GS series) are NOT out yet... but they are now on the Lutron site.


I have an early production beta sample next to my desk. I am off to the elec supply house to pick up a 4 gang masonry box so I can dive in and see what's cool about it.


Mine does not have any shade controls built in, but there are expansion slots under the lower portion of the lid.


----------



## DMF

I noticed it in passing, but just took a closer look. (It's listed as GS in some spots and QS in others.)

*Wow!*







This is a major product upgrade! It essentially combines a GE 3500 with a GRX-PRG and a shade controller, plus a couple of new features.


astronomical timeclock is integrated

front-panel USB port to connect to a PC

direct shade control, without interfaces

direct wired IR connection

direct connection to occupancy sensor

new (nicer) information display with more info

back-lit internal controls

seeTouch front panel controls

accepts external contact closures

new power modules

up to 100 zones and 100 devices in a system

30 wonderful colors

Here is a link to the slick for you lurkers.


Rick, doesn't the QS/GS(?) line seem more like Homeworks® than GRAFIK Eye®? I can see them selling a TON of them in California with Title 24 now.


----------



## cinemascope

I can't talk about it... yet.


It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.


----------



## BillW

Thanks for the link DMF. This is a major upgrade!! The next ? is how much will this raise the price? Also I wonder it the "regular" 3100's , if they are still offered, will now come with see touch buttons and the IR input.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I need a quick reccomendation on which unit I need and where to get a good price. I'll list the various lights in my theater by zone.


1). Mains

2). Soffit Tray (Rope Lighting)

3). Behind Screen Wall

4). Stage Arch

5). Sconces


I think I need the GRX-3506 this would allow me to have an extra zone. All of the above are incadencant, except for the Rope Light. I want to be able to control all of the zones and have control over schemes. So with that said, which model should I get and were are some good sources? I'd like to get the Bright Nickel with a Translucent Cover.


----------



## johnnyq627

Does anyone have a pic of how they mounted the RACO 698 masonry box? I picked mine up this weekend and I'm a little uncertain how to mount it. Do you just drill throught the side of it and put two screws in or what?


Thanks!


Nick


----------



## DMF

That's what I do. Or if everything is coming in the top (or bottom) you can set it on a cross-ways 2x4. Or use a box hanger if you have the depth. Don't forget to allow for the thickness of your wall - at minimum the sheet of drywall.


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't talk about it... yet.
> 
> 
> It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.



Rick,


Is this the same as what's labeled the Grafik Eye QS on the Lutron site? Do you have any information on where or when to find these and expected cost? Thanks,


-Ryan


----------



## ifeliciano

Hi ,


I tried searching the thread, but came up empty on this topic.

If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga ?


----------



## yellohj

Just ordered the GRX-3104 with the GRX-IRI. It will control 4 zones of lighting:

Zone 1 - cans

Zone 2 - sconces

Zone 3 - switched outlet for Line voltage rope lighting (dimmable)

Zone 4 - Switched outlet - on/off for Star Ceiling tiles.


Lutron says it will work. Anyone know differently? I am wiring my 18Ga Class 2 wiring tomorrow for the IRI > GE control cable.


Thanks in advance!


James


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ifeliciano* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga ?



Use 12ga to the zones.


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Use 12ga to the zones.




Thanks ScottJ0007 !!


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't talk about it... yet.
> 
> 
> It is definitely GS series, and the new prefix if GSG, in place of the previous generation's prefix of GRX.



Any news on these new units? I saw them announced back in January, but haven't heard a peep since then.


----------



## attichometheater

I just purchased my GE 3104 w/4 scene remote and wall station on ebay new for 410.00. I have my 4 gang masonry box 3.5in deep and Im ready to start the wiring. I understand that I need 2 twisted pair of 18 ga. wires to run from the GE to the wall station. Im planing on using 2 ea. single pair twisted cable taped together. My question is- Does the twisted pair that operates the scenes located in connection points #3 need to be shielded? The cable I have is tray cable with a thicker pvc cover. Will this work?

Thanks


----------



## DMF

Don't know if it will work; never tried it. But it won't meet code unless you're using 600V electrical tape inside the main box.


Of course, whether it will work or not is not the only question. Like any unshielded data cable it will radiate high-frequency noise that might or might not interfere with other things in the area.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I need a quick reccomendation on which unit I need and where to get a good price. I'll list the various lights in my theater by zone.
> 
> 
> 1). Mains
> 
> 2). Soffit Tray (Rope Lighting)
> 
> 3). Behind Screen Wall
> 
> 4). Stage Arch
> 
> 5). Sconces
> 
> 
> I think I need the GRX-3506 this would allow me to have an extra zone. All of the above are incadencant, except for the Rope Light. I want to be able to control all of the zones and have control over schemes. So with that said, which model should I get and were are some good sources? I'd like to get the Bright Nickel with a Translucent Cover.




I looks like the GSX-3506 can be programmed by computer, but the 3106 can't that's the major difference.


----------



## wagsgt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Thomas J. Coyle* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> dc_pilgrim,
> 
> 
> I bought a new 3104 off eBay a while back for about $200 off of the list price and have had no problems with it.
> 
> 
> Though I did rig up a test fixture with four loads to check it out before I permanently installed it in my home theater.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> TCIII



I also bought my 3104 and wallstation off ebay and was hooked up about a week ago and have had no problems with it.


----------



## attichometheater

Hopefully I will not have a problem either. I talked to the techs at lutron about the cable requirements to control the wall station. I was told that the 3000 series only needs 2 pair of 18ga. twisted wire without the shield. The 4000 series needs to be shielded. The installation manual confirms this via there beldon cable recommendations for the 3000 series. I should start the wiring tomorrow.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looks like the GSX-3506 can be programmed by computer, but the 3106 can't that's the major difference.



It's not that simple. Both can be programmed, but neither directly - you need an interface, usually GRX-PRG.


The main difference is that 3500 has a much larger command set than the 3100, making programming much more useful.


----------



## johnnyq627

Not sure if this was covered or not, but I found out tonight that the Lutron IR remote lightswitch from Home Depot works with the grafikeye 3106. The off button turns everything off at a 15sec interval (no matter what) and that using the single up/down switches on the side of the remote, turns all zones up and down one step at a time. Kinda handy for those of us who don't have our HT remotes yet.


Now a question.... what do you guys do to prep for drywall installation? I can't remove the grafikeye or there will be no light, but I don't want the workers to ruin it... any ideas?


Nick


----------



## BillW

Remove it and install a temporary switch with all your zone switch legs tied together. No point in taking any chances.


----------



## bigtony777

I have a couple of questions about the GRX-IRI. Can anyone post a picture of placing a GRX-IRI. I am a little confused as to whether this goes in a different box then my 3104 or how exactly you place it. Second is when I am connecting this into a system with two 3104's, do I daisy chain from the IRI to the first 3104 then to the second 3104? Lastly, I am going to be using a MRF-300 for the IR blaster. How exactly would this connect with the IRI? It looks like the MRF-300 has two spots on the back for a 3 cable connection, not 4 cables like the IRI uses. Thank you so much for anyone in advance that can help me with this.


Anthony


----------



## DMF

IRI goes in a separate box. Have you ever seen a picture of it? No way it fits in the same box. Look here. 


All components of a 3000 system live on a data bus. You daisy-chain them all together. The order isn't important.


The IR emitter sticks to the back of the IRI unit. There are no cable connections (for the emitter).


Look at diagrams 40, 42, and 50 of this document .


----------



## page1

I am looking at getting the new QS seiries what do you think of these prices I can get from a local dealer in MN? Good deal or rip off? I know they are lower then MSRP but i am having a hard time finding the QS series online.


QSG-6P120-SN-TSN= $680.00

Main Unit


QSWS2-5BI-SN-EGN

5-Button Wallstation = $143.00


QSWS2-5BRLIRI-SN-EGN

5-Button Wallstation with Infrared Receiver and Raise/Lower = $165.00


GRX-81T-WT = $110.00


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

I ahve no idea if that's a good price, page1, since I haven't seen the new QS series for sale anywhere yet. It seems pretty reasonable, though. I think I paid $425 or so for my 3106 (nearly-new of the bay) and the new models have a bit more funtionality.


----------



## DMF

Those prices are reasonable. On a par with 3500 series a couple years ago. Actually, I'm pleasantly surprised that they're not higher.


Exception: The prices for Lutron's remotes are and have always been outrageous.


----------



## DMF

For those familiar with the GE, the QS series has a different model numbering scheme. Here is a PDF with the model numbers and line descriptions.


----------



## page1

I agree $110 for a remote that ONLY controls lights is high. What remote are people using to control their A/V and Lutron Lighting, i am mostly interested in its Lutron compatibility?


Also i am looking for a good place or member to buy PELV (Class 2) wire? I don't need 500'. Any suggestions. (I Know there was one in the beginning of the thread but i wanted know if there is a newer POC)


Thanks!


----------



## sieberlf

page 1,

I have just over 400 ft of Liberty wire it is designed for the Lutron grafik Eye. Liberty part number is Lutron-GRN. I will sell by the foot. If your interested email me for details.


----------



## page1

sieberlf - you have a pm


----------



## CEDIAdude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/10386598
> 
> 
> Rick,
> 
> 
> Is this the same as what's labeled the Grafik Eye QS on the Lutron site? Do you have any information on where or when to find these and expected cost? Thanks,
> 
> 
> -Ryan



Greetings to all..


What started out as GS morphed into a QS prefix. Please never ask why - it is a loooong story. So yes, the new unit is QS.


Several new features have been introduced, and it IS shipping now. However, one feature that nobody has picked up on is that there are now over 1000 different color combinations available between the plate, accent stripe, and button colors. Most cool of all is the ability to use our online visualizer to see what it will look like before buying a multi-color unit. Click on http://www.lutron.com/cms/default.aspx?appid=1009# and follow the embedded link on the right side of the page. Let me know what you think!


PS We have no current plans to discontinue any of the existing units, in case any of you were wondering...


----------



## rotelmania

I am looking into getting the RadioRA system for my home theater. My question is:


1. What is the difference between master controller and grafikEye RA?


2. If I use the master controller do I still need to use GrafikEye and vice versa?


3. I am assuming that either using the wall controller of GrafikEye, I still need to have a dimmer or switch for each zone. Is that correct?


thanks


----------



## rsprance

Can someone dumb this down for me a bit? In looking at the Lutron diagram, it looks like after the last in a series of lights, it has to go back to the breaker panel? ("to distribution panel").


Hopefully I am reading this wrong and I can run power from a new breaker into the Grafik Eye, then chain to each fiture stopping at the end like this...



BREAKER---->Grafik Eye---> Zone 1---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)

.......................................Zone 2---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)


Is that how it is set up or do I have to do something after the final lamp in the chain?


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/11563775
> 
> 
> Can someone dumb this down for me a bit? In looking at the Lutron diagram, it looks like after the last in a series of lights, it has to go back to the breaker panel? ("to distribution panel").
> 
> 
> Hopefully I am reading this wrong and I can run power from a new breaker into the Grafik Eye, then chain to each fiture stopping at the end like this...
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKER---->Grafik Eye---> Zone 1---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)
> 
> .......................................Zone 2---> lamp--->lamp---> lamp (done)
> 
> 
> Is that how it is set up or do I have to do something after the final lamp in the chain?



That's how it is done. Remember, Lutron recommends 2 two wire for each zone (no three wire with a shared neutral for the zone outputs).


----------



## rsprance

I asked this in a seperate thread, but i think I should have asked it here....


I know theres no way to sensibly put a standard outlet for regular use at the end of a dimmable recessed lighting chain, but what if I was to chain two outlets at the end specifically for the soffit rope lights, which are getting dimmed anyway?


I have 11 recessed 3" halogen lights getting connected to one of a two line Grafik Eye. I was planning on using one zone for the wall sconces and the other for the recsessed lights and put the rope lights at the end of the chain so they dim together.


What do you guys think about this?


----------



## cinemascope

Lutron makes specific dimming outlets with a male prong which protrudes into the mating power cord end. This ensure that the only devices that can be plugged into this outlet are intended to be plugged into it.


If you ever plug anything but a light into that outlet, major issues could spring up quickly!!


Vacuum cleaners, fans, radios, televisions, etc. are examples of devices that would be DOA within a minute or so on a dimmed outlet. These are MANDATORY on HomeWorks projects where we set dedicated lamp outlets to be controlled by the centralized lighting control system.


In that application, the receptacles are either wall mounted or mounted on floor boxes under tables. As you could imagine, it would not be uncommon to have a housekeeper unplug a lamp from a handy receptacle to run a vacuum or something. This is why these dedicated receptacles exist.


Say you have a standard outlet for a projector, and a dimmed outlet nearby where the rope light is terminated.


If there is a breaker trip, and the next homeowner decides to re-route the projector to the "other" outlet where the rope light is plugged in.

When the movie starts and the lights go down, so does that projector!!!


Anytime you install an electrical device into your home, you have to think long term... You will not be the only person using it over it's installed life.

Electrical code enforces this.


Order up the dimming receptacles and mating power cord ends.


See page 3 of this document...
http://www.lutron.com/pdfspecs/novatb.pdf 


The "duplex for dimming use" model has two receptacles with the protruding prong, and the "half for dimming use" is a split receptacle where one half is connected to a dimmer (with the prong), and the other half is a standard receptacle on another circuit.


----------



## Minhas

Ok, so im leaning towards purchasing a grafik eye, but alot of this discussion is over my head.

i have 4 lighting zones to control, each of these zones has a switch in the front and back of the room. I plan on putting the grafik eye in the front of the room, and a 4 scene switch in the back. This is a new construction so all walls are still open for the next week or so.


So, is this all i need for installation?

grafik eye controller (either 3104 or 3504)

NTGRX-4S switch

4-gang box for the controller

PELV-MUX wire from controller to switch


at current state, the switches are wired up however an electrician would normally do it...

If i understand correct, the only thing i need to add is the LV wire from the controller to the switch, am i on the right track?


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Minhas* /forum/post/11661940
> 
> 
> Ok, so im leaning towards purchasing a grafik eye, but alot of this discussion is over my head.
> 
> i have 4 lighting zones to control, each of these zones has a switch in the front and back of the room. I plan on putting the grafik eye in the front of the room, and a 4 scene switch in the back. This is a new construction so all walls are still open for the next week or so.
> 
> 
> So, is this all i need for installation?
> 
> grafik eye controller (either 3104 or 3504)
> 
> NTGRX-4S switch
> 
> 4-gang box for the controller
> 
> PELV-MUX wire from controller to switch
> 
> 
> at current state, the switches are wired up however an electrician would normally do it...
> 
> If i understand correct, the only thing i need to add is the LV wire from the controller to the switch, am i on the right track?



It looks right to me. The only thing I would change look at is making sure the IR reciever is in a position to work from your seating position. That way when you set up your remote you can control the lights.


----------



## huntrm

Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.


Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.


Thanks.


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huntrm* /forum/post/11677224
> 
> 
> Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



If it is the matte finish it should be no problem. Otherwise you can always order a cover.


----------



## Minhas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huntrm* /forum/post/11677224
> 
> 
> Have been waiting to get a black 3104, but couldn't pass up an inexpensive white one on Ebay recently and thus purchased it.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any experience in spray painting the white to a black color? Any suggestions on how to do it? Is it even possible to take the white cover off and easily paint it? I haven't received it yet so not sure what's possible and what isn't.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



so you're the one that outbid me on ebay yesterday morning!


----------



## huntrm

Did I say Ebay - errr, I meant Yahoo Auctions, yeah that's the ticket!


----------



## rsprance

Just got my GRX-2402 and in looking at the installation I am unclear on one thing.


I see the screw terminals for Line 1 out and line 2 out HOT, but nothing for the Neutral wire being run to all the lamps. Do i just pigtail the neutral wire from both lines along with the neutral from the line coming in from the box and connect it to the neutral in of the 2402? Does the ground wire from both lines alse get attached to the 2402's ground screw?


I also see it doesn't come with a remote. Do I need to buy one or will it be in the logitech database when I buy the 890?


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/11689417
> 
> 
> Just got my GRX-2402 and in looking at the installation I am unclear on one thing.
> 
> 
> I see the screw terminals for Line 1 out and line 2 out HOT, but nothing for the Neutral wire being run to all the lamps. Do i just pigtail the neutral wire from both lines along with the neutral from the line coming in from the box and connect it to the neutral in of the 2402? Does the ground wire from both lines alse get attached to the 2402's ground screw?
> 
> 
> I also see it doesn't come with a remote. Do I need to buy one or will it be in the logitech database when I buy the 890?



All the neutrals get connected together with a pigtail coming off for connection to the GE, same for the grounds. It does not come with a remote, I think they figure most people won't need it.


----------



## typecase

Hello,


I was thinking about purchasing a 3106 for my HT but recently came across the newer QS series Grafik Eye. Do you think the QSG-6P120 would make a reasonable replacement? From what I understand I'd be able to plug an IR blaster from my Harmony remote straight into the unit rather than getting a separate IR unit for the 3106. I'm also using a RA-AS to control the stairwell lighting leading down to the theater. Since I'm fairly new to this, I'd appreciate any advice on this potential setup.


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *typecase* /forum/post/11858433
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I was thinking about purchasing a 3106 for my HT but recently came across the newer QS series Grafik Eye. Do you think the QSG-6P120 would make a reasonable replacement? From what I understand I'd be able to plug an IR blaster from my Harmony remote straight into the unit rather than getting a separate IR unit for the 3106. I'm also using a RA-AS to control the stairwell lighting leading down to the theater. Since I'm fairly new to this, I'd appreciate any advice on this potential setup.




The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.


----------



## page1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillW* /forum/post/11860178
> 
> 
> The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.



Don't forget there are quite a few new addtions and changes in the qs:


From: CEPro.com

-20 percent less deep than the rather chunky standard model, which should make it easier to install. And it now comes in 30 color and finish combinations.


-The panel now features an IR input so integrators no longer need to stick an emitter on the front panel to operate the system with a third-party controller.


-It also provides a contact-closure input for connecting to an occupancy sensor or other trigger device.


-In a nod to the green movement, the front LCD panel reads out not only the status of lights and shades, but the amount of energy that is being savedin real timeby dimming the lights.


-Lutron also has added a new set of master override buttons that can be used to temporarily raise and lower light levels of a complete scene.


-An astronomical clock has also been added to the Grafik Eye, allowing integrators to set schedules for activating scenes.


----------



## typecase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillW* /forum/post/11860178
> 
> 
> The QS is really meant more for controlling shades and lighting. I don't think you are getting your money's worth using it just for lighting.



The cool features mentioned by page1 is precisely why I'm considering the QS, but I will I be losing any features as compared to the 3106? Also does anyone use a Grafik Eye with the RA-AS?


----------



## jgb

This might not be the best place to ask this, but here goes:


Are all dimmers alike?


If I have a Control 4 system and I want to dim fluorescents (they only have standard dimmers) Could I use a Lutron FDBI and Lutron HiLume ballast between my C4 dimmer and dim the flourescents?


It seems to me if you were to connect a C4 dimmer to the Lutron FDBI and a Lutron ballast you could do fluorescent dimming because the output of a Lutron dimmer and a C4 dimmer ought to be the same, right? Has anybody tried this?


----------



## kjohn

This discussion is WAY WAY over my head I need advice on controlling 3 sets of lights in one room Pots, Wall sconces, and rope lights on stairs all in one room in existing construction Thanks for the help in advance.


----------



## rsprance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kjohn* /forum/post/11894479
> 
> 
> This discussion is WAY WAY over my head I need advice on controlling 3 sets of lights in one room Pots, Wall sconces, and rope lights on stairs all in one room in existing construction Thanks for the help in advance.



Get the Grafik Eye 2403. Chain all the sconces to one zone. Chain all the rope lights to the second zone and the all the "pots" to the 3rd zone.


You can then set up to 4 "scenes" with a combination of those lights dimmed/on/off as you like. You may want to have an electrician install it if you arent comfortable as the Grafik Eye can be a bit tricky if you arent up on your hot, neutral and ground pigtailing.










I got the 2403 for a very similar situation (scones, hi hats and rope light). Hope that breaks things down for you a bit.


----------



## kjohn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/11894522
> 
> 
> Get the Grafik Eye 2403. Chain all the sconces to one zone. Chain all the rope lights to the second zone and the all the "pots" to the 3rd zone.
> 
> 
> You can then set up to 4 "scenes" with a combination of those lights dimmed/on/off as you like. You may want to have an electrician install it if you arent comfortable as the Grafik Eye can be a bit tricky if you arent up on your hot, neutral and ground pigtailing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the 2403 for a very similar situation (scones, hi hats and rope light). Hope that breaks things down for you a bit.




Yes thank you greatly.


----------



## kjohn

Got my Lutron system and installed it I am greatly satisfied thanks for all the help.


----------



## dseliger

Searched around and couldnt find much on this issue so i wanted to post and see if anyone has the same proble.


I have the 4 zone unit,


Zone1: Can Lights (around the room)

Zone2: Can Lights (in front of the screen)

Zone3: Can lights (behind the perforated screen)

Zone4: Rope Light (around the soffit, 120V LED)


All are wired correctly, my friend is a professional electrician so I know it was wired properly.


If i turn off one of the zones the bulbs in that zone flicker constantly (they are off but they still flicker on a little bit)...like a small trickle of electricity is still going through the wires. It happens to any of the 4 zones or multiple zones at the same time. If i turn all the zones off they do not flicker any more.


Any ideas?


I had some LED bulbs in there and a few of them actually burned up (visibly fried). I'm now using compact flourescents.


----------



## doctorevil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dseliger* /forum/post/12041780
> 
> 
> Searched around and couldnt find much on this issue so i wanted to post and see if anyone has the same proble.
> 
> 
> I have the 4 zone unit,
> 
> 
> Zone1: Can Lights (around the room)
> 
> Zone2: Can Lights (in front of the screen)
> 
> Zone3: Can lights (behind the perforated screen)
> 
> Zone4: Rope Light (around the soffit, 120V LED)
> 
> 
> All are wired correctly, my friend is a professional electrician so I know it was wired properly.
> 
> 
> If i turn off one of the zones the bulbs in that zone flicker constantly (they are off but they still flicker on a little bit)...like a small trickle of electricity is still going through the wires. It happens to any of the 4 zones or multiple zones at the same time. If i turn all the zones off they do not flicker any more.
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> I had some LED bulbs in there and a few of them actually burned up (visibly fried). I'm now using compact flourescents.



I think you'll find that the compact flourescents don't like the trickle of electricity. You'll burn those out fast too...I'm no expert though...


----------



## BillW

Have you set up your load types in the program mode? This is where you tell the GE zone 1 is fluorescent (which can't be dimmed with out an interface) etc.. I don't recommend fluorescent in home theater rooms. They have poor color rendering and are difficult to dim. Also I am unaware of any LED's that are 120v or are "rope light". Your typical rope light that plugs in with no transformer is not LED.


Bill


----------



## Mr. Wilby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/9544354
> 
> 
> The Grafik Eye spec is a minimum of 25W per zone. If your rope lights don't draw 25W then you will need the unit that Lutron specified.



Great thread. Could somebody point me at the spec docs for the 3106 that mention this 25w value? I've been trying all day to find a mention of the minimum value, but without success. I'm in Finland so "calling lutron" requires an international call, so I'd prefer to exhaust all online sources before that step...


----------



## dseliger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillW* /forum/post/12167180
> 
> 
> Have you set up your load types in the program mode? This is where you tell the GE zone 1 is fluorescent (which can't be dimmed with out an interface) etc.. I don't recommend fluorescent in home theater rooms. They have poor color rendering and are difficult to dim. Also I am unaware of any LED's that are 120v or are "rope light". Your typical rope light that plugs in with no transformer is not LED.
> 
> 
> Bill





Well i have the 2404 model and it doesnt appear that i can specify the load types on it.


Im only using the CF's because i dont like "yellow" light, and i only have those particular lights on before the movies begin. Sure it would be nice to dim them but i like the 6500k colored bulbs better.


The rope light i bought is supposed to be LED and its super bright and requires no transormer. It was very expensive for rope light but i wanted super bright and this is the stuff that was recommended to me.

http://www.ccl-light.com/docs/indoor...led/index.html (i have the blue)



So do you think if i upgraded to the 3000 series GE and specified non-dimmable zones that would solve my problem?


Thanks for your reponses.


----------



## The Bogg

Is the installation of the GRX-2404 the same as the 3000 series? I can't find the manual for the 2000 series on the Lutron site, which is very strange. The 2404 is on order and I just wanted to give my installer the instruction manual for how to run the wiring.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr. Wilby* /forum/post/12179745
> 
> 
> Could somebody point me at the spec docs for the 3106 that mention this 25w value?



What? You don't trust me?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *page1* /forum/post/11861616
> 
> 
> Don't forget there are quite a few new addtions and changes in the qs:
> 
> 
> From: CEPro.com...
> 
> 
> -An astronomical clock has also been added to the Grafik Eye, allowing integrators to set schedules for activating scenes.



This is a HUGE upgrade. The GRX-PRG you need with the earlier series costs as much as a 3000 series GE all by itself.


And remember that if you want to program it, the QS has a USB port to plug directly into your PC. (That's another feature that was approximated by the GRX-PRG, using RS-232 (serial) instead of USB.) Oddly, though, I find very little mention of it in the docs.


Given the prices I've seen for the QS series, I don't see a downside.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Bogg* /forum/post/12200750
> 
> 
> Is the installation of the GRX-2404 the same as the 3000 series? I can't find the manual for the 2000 series on the Lutron site, which is very strange. The 2404 is on order and I just wanted to give my installer the instruction manual for how to run the wiring.



Strange, I can't find any either.


The 3000 can't be much different than the 2000. Afaik, the only difference is that the 2000 lacks the low-voltage interface.


----------



## Stereodude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/12229213
> 
> 
> Given the prices I've seen for the QS series, I don't see a downside.



It seems that not many retailers are selling the QS series yet though.


----------



## dseliger

I wish they'd put an RF on these instead of IR, i cant hit it with IR unless i turn around










Anyone found a workaround besides running an eye over there and trying to get it into the box so its not visible?


----------



## The Bogg

I'm hoping to use an IR blaster mounted across the room to hit the IR eye. SpeakerCraft has a system I'm probably going to use.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dseliger* /forum/post/12245791
> 
> 
> I wish they'd put an RF on these instead of IR, i cant hit it with IR unless i turn around
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone found a workaround besides running an eye over there and trying to get it into the box so its not visible?


 Grafik RA 

RA-GRXI 
Setup Guide


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stereodude* /forum/post/12229702
> 
> 
> It seems that not many retailers are selling the QS series yet though.



Not many of the online dirtbags are selling them yet....


I know of at least three Authorized Lutron Dealers who spend a lot of time here, and answered countless Grafik Eye threads...

Then a couple of us banded together to compile them into this thread, and continually kept on top of it to make sure that the users here are AVS would have a resource to go to...


In addition to copy/paste from a few other threads, we spent a ton of our own time finding and posting photos, posting links to Application Notes and manuals, and generating HTML tags to make it as easy as possible to follow....


Basically, go to the first page or two...

Dennis Erskine at Design Cinema Privee, Alan at Audible Solutions, or I would all be happy to help you pick out a new QS Series Grafik Eye and whatever accessories you need.


I have done some Lutron horse-trading with DMF to get him the See Touch keypads he wanted, and I am sure he would be happy to vouch that I am fair to deal with.


Send any of us a PM with any questions.


We don't generally compete against each other, so don't expect to contact all three and see a price war.

If I quote you a price, I will CC Dennis and Alan on the reply out of courtesy.


In addition, AV Science (who hosts this whole thing) are listed as a Lutron dealer...

You could always PM Alan or David as well.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Bogg* /forum/post/12245834
> 
> 
> I'm hoping to use an IR blaster mounted across the room to hit the IR eye. SpeakerCraft has a system I'm probably going to use.



Using flood blasters is an acceptable plan, but you need to know that it is the least reliable.


Direct button presses, or MUX communication is best, followed by an IR emitter under (or on) the panel, and then line-of-sight IR from a remote or a floor emitter. The chance for a failed command is doubled when you are relying on an IR repeater network which itself relies on line-of-sight IR to receive the signal in the first place.


You may want to get a couple of those IR flood blasters and have them in different areas aimed toward the GRX. Basically, anywhere where you can easily get the wire. Even if there is one significant obstancle to pulling the wire directly to the wallbox, you can still extend the leads and place the blasters somewhere where they will have a decent line of sight.


The primary reason I like to use two (when I can't choose a better method) is that at least a couple of the lighting commands are generally in a macros...


If there happens to be a party guest, kid, dog, UFO, etc. between the blaster and the GRX, it will not receive the command and the lights will not fade down (as in a "start movie" macro), or come back on (as in a "pause movie" or "clean up" macro).


If there are two blasters coming at the GRX from different angles, then the second blaster may hit it if the first one is blocked...


Another consideration, if this is a living space or media room and there are windows, be sure that sunlight does not fall on the face of the GRX.


It will basically "jam" the IR receiver in most cases, and it ios very likely that the receiver will not be able to distinguish the IR signal from a control system vs. the spurious infrared light from the sunlight.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/12229392
> 
> 
> Strange, I can't find any either.
> 
> 
> The 3000 can't be much different than the 2000. Afaik, the only difference is that the 2000 lacks the low-voltage interface.



The 2400 series looks and wires the same as the 3000 series, except the 2400 doesn't have a MUX connection (as you clearly pointed out!).

Other than that, you still want to use the deep metal boxes, and you still need a 2 gang for a 2 zone, a 3 gang for a 2 zone, and a 4 gang for a 4 OR 6 zone.


The only secondary keypad control for the 2400 series is the NT-GRX-1S Entrance Control, which gives Scene 1 and OFF only, you only get the 4 scenes and All off, and also the fade times are fixed.


The decision to choose the 1S control, as well as the other differences between the 3000 and the 2400, are clearly outlined on the first page of this thread.


These and a few other reasons are why this series is the cheapest GRX, but that is just fine for many people!!


Just know what you are buying, because many sellers just take the money and don't bother to help you figure out what it is that you are buying.


----------



## typecase

I just had my Grafik Eye QSG-6P120 installed and *I love it*. On the strength of the recommendations here, I chose it over the GRX-3106 so thanks to everybody that helped. I don't think it makes sense to buy the 3106 anymore. I'm able to control the unit with direct IR from my Harmony 890, but does anyone have any advice on how to to control it via the hardwire IR ports and the wireless extender? I tried simply cutting off the IR ends, stripping the ends and placing the two wires in the provided IR ports of the Grafik Eye and the minijack into the RF extender, but this doesn't seem to work. Any suggestions as to what cabling I should be using? Any help greatly appreciated.


----------



## GREENGA

I am installing a few GE's around my house during a major remodel; "I" am the contractor.










For the downstairs hall I need to install a GRX-3x03 (1 or 5). When I read the Grafik Eye thread a couple of months ago, someone posted information about an electrical box in which to install the 3x06. The box was larger (wider) than normal and needed a mud ring. Well, that box worked perfect! Plenty of room to set the ganged neutral wires on one side and the ganged grounds on the other with plenty of room for the hot leads. Perfect..., well, almost perfect, except for the mud ring being for 5/8" sheetrock instead of 1/2", but why quibble. It is most certainly MUCH better than the plastic box my electrician used for the 3106 in my media room when he installed it for me a couple of years ago. There is NO room in that box. Now "I" need to figure out how to replace it from the rear when I have that wall open....










Anyways...


I searched and searched the thread for a similar recommendation to use with the 3x03. Would anyone know the model numbers for the two parts (box and ring), if such creatures exist?


Thanks...


Oh, in case anyone cares:










3106 + 3102 for the master bath (stored in an adjacent closet) controlled by the 18 (or is it 15) button NTGRX remote station IN the bathroom and another 10 button remote station in the master bedroom next to the door to the bathroom.


3106 in the media room


3104 in the dining room


3x03 in the downstairs hall (stored in a remote closet) controlled by a ???? at both ends of the hall.


3x06 in the kitchen (planned) with at least 4 remote stations.


3x06 in the family room (planned)


3x06 in the new addition (planned) with at least two remote stations)


Again, while I have anyone's attention...


Before I start buttoning up the walls, I need to purchase some PELV wire to connect the remote stations to the GE's in question. I read recommendations for Lutron, Belden and Liberty as suppliers. Is there any difference between them? Is one "better" than the other or recommended over the others? Although I am price sensitive, spending a couple of dollars extra now for something "better", or provides "something" extra down the road, is not an issue.


Thanks for ALL the information. It has come in useful many, many times.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> "Lutron used to, but no longer sells a GE that can be supplied by two different circuits. If the wiring load on the GE exceeds the 1800W (approx) limit of a 15A supply, then a 20A supply must be used. If the load exceeds a single 20A supply, then external power boosters (NGRX-PB) can be used to offload zones. (The power booster is rated at 2000W, so 12,000W can be dimmed by a single 3x06!) Each power booster may have its own supply."



This can still be special ordered from Lutron, however it doesn't change any of the specs on the GrafikEye it only allows you to feed from 2-circuits.


Also the Interconnect Cable for most residential uses needs only be rated 300v, for commercial uses over 250v it should be 600v rated. You will find somewhere in the NEC all wire in the same box that is not seperated/divided must be rated at the highest available voltage.


Otherwise great source for general GE info. Love your scene anology.


New Grafik Eye QS series are shipping, so you'll hve more to add t the confusion of this. I sell and stock a lt of the items mentioned here so feel free to contact me for any Lutron or Regular Electrical Items I also have the Belden and Lutron wire by the foot on my website hankselectric.net


----------



## oman321

Question then, can I find the correct cable for interconnecting a GRX-CIR-WH 18-2 or 18-4 at Home depot or at lowes. If I understand correctly it needs to be CL2 and rated at either 300v or 600v. I only need at the most 10 - 20 ft. Thanks


----------



## oman321

Well, I went to Lowes during lunch and on their board in the wire cutting section they had rj600 18-2 listed which is rated at 600v unfortunately it stated not available in this area. I asked a guy in the department and he said that it means that they don't sell it by the foot. When I showed him what I wanted from the board he said "oh that's basically lamp wire, it's rubber wrapped wire" I replied that it needed to be CL2 rated though. He replied that he didn't have it available. Someone have some of the Belden or other alternatives available?


Ooops just saw you last sentence spiwrx


----------



## sieberlf

I have about 230 ft of Liberty wire catalog number Lutron-GRN left over from my project. I would be willing to sell it by the foot at $0.30 per foot plus shipping.

 

LUTRON-GRN.pdf 337.0498046875k . file


----------



## oman321

Thanks for the offer sieberlf,


I might need a masonry box too, so it might be easier to go through spiwrx. If not I'll be in touch via pm. Thanks again.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/12425000
> 
> 
> New Grafik Eye QS series are shipping, so you'll hve more to add t the confusion of this. I sell and stock a lt of the items mentioned here so feel free to contact me for any Lutron or Regular Electrical Items I also have the Belden and Lutron wire by the foot on my website h*.net



Paul, whether or not you are aware of it, this post is in violation of this forum's rules.



> Quote:
> Are you a Dealer/Retail/Trunk Slammer or Installer??
> 
> No mentioning of sales. Do not play the game, I have this projector coming in this week or sitting in inventory. Or I have this hanging in my store. This lets people know you are a dealer in a about face way which translates to sales. Do not post a signature promoting your business.



Also, having a blatant solicitation on your third post here is a bit tacky.


People like Dennis, Alan, and I built this thread as a resource, and we do not openly and obviously solicit sales... When you do, it isw the forum equivalent of walking into another home center, standing in the electrical aisle, and handing out your business cards.


AV Science sells Lutron products and the wire, boxes, and accessories needed to install it, as do the people who created this thread and answered the design, installation, and control system interfacing questions on these components for years.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GREENGA* /forum/post/12417999
> 
> 
> I am installing a few GE's around my house during a major remodel; "I" am the contractor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the downstairs hall I need to install a GRX-3x03 (1 or 5). When I read the Grafik Eye thread a couple of months ago, someone posted information about an electrical box in which to install the 3x06. The box was larger (wider) than normal and needed a mud ring. Well, that box worked perfect! Plenty of room to set the ganged neutral wires on one side and the ganged grounds on the other with plenty of room for the hot leads. Perfect..., well, almost perfect, except for the mud ring being for 5/8" sheetrock instead of 1/2", but why quibble. It is most certainly MUCH better than the plastic box my electrician used for the 3106 in my media room when he installed it for me a couple of years ago. There is NO room in that box. Now "I" need to figure out how to replace it from the rear when I have that wall open....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways...
> 
> 
> I searched and searched the thread for a similar recommendation to use with the 3x03. Would anyone know the model numbers for the two parts (box and ring), if such creatures exist?
> 
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> 
> Oh, in case anyone cares:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3106 + 3102 for the master bath (stored in an adjacent closet) controlled by the 18 (or is it 15) button NTGRX remote station IN the bathroom and another 10 button remote station in the master bedroom next to the door to the bathroom.
> 
> 
> 3106 in the media room
> 
> 
> 3104 in the dining room
> 
> 
> 3x03 in the downstairs hall (stored in a remote closet) controlled by a ???? at both ends of the hall.
> 
> 
> 3x06 in the kitchen (planned) with at least 4 remote stations.
> 
> 
> 3x06 in the family room (planned)
> 
> 
> 3x06 in the new addition (planned) with at least two remote stations)
> 
> 
> Again, while I have anyone's attention...
> 
> 
> Before I start buttoning up the walls, I need to purchase some PELV wire to connect the remote stations to the GE's in question. I read recommendations for Lutron, Belden and Liberty as suppliers. Is there any difference between them? Is one "better" than the other or recommended over the others? Although I am price sensitive, spending a couple of dollars extra now for something "better", or provides "something" extra down the road, is not an issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks for ALL the information. It has come in useful many, many times.



GREENGA,

While this will certainly work, tying that many GRXes into a patched whole house lighting control is not really considered a best practice anymore.


10 years ago, that was one of the few options that existed, but today a combination centralized/wallbox whole house system offers a lot more flexibility. In addition, these systems offer a significantly cleaner design from the aesthetic standpoint, with fewer multi-gang wallboxes in the living areas.


From the standpoint of pricing, the multiple GRX configuration is only cheaper in small systems. The dedicated whole house options such as Lutron's HomeWorks, RadioRa, LiteTouch, Vantage, CentraLite, etc. are options which a good integrator could implement for the same or less money.


If you are programming this yourself, and plan to create many whole-home scenes which travel across multiple GRXes, you will soon realize the benefit of having a PC programming that can easily address any load into any scene and access through any keypad location.


----------



## Ross E

This thread was invaluable to me. Thanks to everyone that posted. It makes Lutron's site and the manual look like a joke.


I did have trouble trying to get a 3 1/2" 4 gang masonary box, and ended up using 4 1 gang boxes (interconnected). Worked out well with no problems.


I do have a question. I have read probably 80% of this thread but not the whole thing and apologize if this has been asked. I am running 21 lights in my theater, with GU10? Halogen bulbs. 18 controlled by my Grafik Eye. The amount of heat from these lights seems ridiculous. I have been seeing LED replacement bulbs for $10 a pop and am really considering them. Will my GRX-3104 work properly with an LED load? I thought I had read that the GE needs at least a 25w load per zone to function properly but can't seem to find the information or even if that spec is correct. Here is my set up:


Zone 1: 10 lights

Zone 2: 8 lights

Zone 3: 4 Sconces/Flame lights

Zone 4: 2 Seating lights


Thanks, Ross


----------



## rsprance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ross E* /forum/post/12501394
> 
> 
> This thread was invaluable to me. Thanks to everyone that posted. It makes Lutron's site and the manual look like a joke.
> 
> 
> I did have trouble trying to get a 3 1/2" 4 gang masonary box, and ended up using 4 1 gang boxes (interconnected). Worked out well with no problems.
> 
> 
> I do have a question. I have read probably 80% of this thread but not the whole thing and apologize if this has been asked. I am running 21 lights in my theater, with GU10? Halogen bulbs. 18 controlled by my Grafik Eye. The amount of heat from these lights seems ridiculous. I have been seeing LED replacement bulbs for $10 a pop and am really considering them. Will my GRX-3104 work properly with an LED load? I thought I had read that the GE needs at least a 25w load per zone to function properly but can't seem to find the information or even if that spec is correct. Here is my set up:
> 
> 
> Zone 1: 10 lights
> 
> Zone 2: 8 lights
> 
> Zone 3: 4 Sconces/Flame lights
> 
> Zone 4: 2 Seating lights
> 
> 
> Thanks, Ross



I was curious about the LED bulbs too. I have 3" halogen cans that use bulb (i think) MR16. Im curious if they dim properly with the grafik eye.


As far as the minimum wattage, i guess you could always leave one halogen 50w in the chain, that would take care of the minimum wattage if it works.


----------



## Ross E

Correction... I think I have the same 3" can lights. MR16 bulb rang a bell and I believe my lights use the same bulb.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/12501471
> 
> 
> I was curious about the LED bulbs too. I have 3" halogen cans that use bulb (i think) MR16. Im curious if they dim properly with the grafik eye.



LEDs are solid state devices, and use a "driver" in place of a transformer on a traditional low voltage lamp or a ballast on a fluorescent lamp.


There are four basic types of drivers, some drivers can be dimmed, some cannot. And there are different methods required for the different driver types...


Confused? Don't fret, so is everyone else.


Lutron has a document on LED dimming, and this is a great place to start your research:
http://www.lutron.com/applicationnotes/app138.pdf 


Make sure the manufacturer signs off on the lamp being dimmed BEFORE you connect it to a dimmer.


Since there are so many potential variables, consult with Lutron tech support as well as the support staff for company making the lamps to ensure that you are implementing your lighting control correctly.



> Quote:
> As far as the minimum wattage, i guess you could always leave one halogen 50w in the chain, that would take care of the minimum wattage if it works.



It's not a good idea to mix load types on a single zone.


Lutron makes a device called the LUT-LBX which is a "synthetic" minimum load interface, which allows low wattage loads to be dimmed even when they are below the minimum dimmable load.

http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/specs/LUT-LBXspec.pdf 


PLEASE report back with the results of your LED experiments.

There are numerous companies offering LEDs, and this is a HOT topic in the lighting control World right now.


----------



## GREENGA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/12500251
> 
> 
> GREENGA,
> 
> While this will certainly work, tying that many GRXes into a patched whole house lighting control is not really considered a best practice anymore.
> 
> 
> 10 years ago, that was one of the few options that existed, but today a combination centralized/wallbox whole house system offers a lot more flexibility. In addition, these systems offer a significantly cleaner design from the aesthetic standpoint, with fewer multi-gang wallboxes in the living areas.
> 
> 
> From the standpoint of pricing, the multiple GRX configuration is only cheaper in small systems. The dedicated whole house options such as Lutron's HomeWorks, RadioRa, LiteTouch, Vantage, CentraLite, etc. are options which a good integrator could implement for the same or less money.
> 
> 
> If you are programming this yourself, and plan to create many whole-home scenes which travel across multiple GRXes, you will soon realize the benefit of having a PC programming that can easily address any load into any scene and access through any keypad location.




NOW you tell me...










I've been working on this for some time now and that is probably why the patchwork approach. Knowing where I was headed, whenever I saw a GRX/Ra, or wall station, go up on eBay, I would buy it and add it to the collection until I got to the room in question.


If I were starting from scratch at this time, I would go with something like Homeworks or the like. At this stage, I am in too deep to change direction. Perhaps in my next house. Now I need to get my hands on some of the Lutron-GRN (is it...?) or some equivalent.


And I am going to do the programming myself. (wish me luck







)


Oh yes... To the original reason for posting. I found the appropriate Raco box, and mud ring, for the 3103's.


----------



## mbgonzomd

I am giddy with my GE! Still haven't explored all the possibilities yet. I had no problem with fitting it in the box (which I thought was going to be difficult due to posts I had read in this thread).


Here is a small video that I put in my construction thread of the GE at work. Poor quality picture, and some artifact (blue lights blinking), but you get the picture, uhh video.


----------



## br007

I am currently in the wiring phase of my home theater. I was intially going with Maestro IR.

After reading this thread I am begining to question this decsision.

Here is what I have;

O O O

O I

O I

O O O


2

2


Zone 1 O = 460W 6 wall sconces\\2 cans (need on\\off and adjble fade rate)

Zone 2 I = 100W 2 cans above seating (need on\\off and adjble fade rate)

Zone 3 I = 200W 2 cans hall way outside theater (need on\\off)


Zone 2 will need 2 location dimmers


I have pronto pro TSU9600 remote with wifi extender and ir emitter outputs.


I was going to use 3 Maestro ir dimmers located on opoosite sides of the wall to eliminate IR crosstalk. However this drive me to use 3 seperate IR ports on my extender. Total cost $200


Thanks For any help you can give me


----------



## BillW

I don't think you will be able to eliminate the IR beams from affecting dimmers you don't want them to. So even though it is alot more for the GE it will be a much neater, worry free install.


Bill


----------



## br007

What I dont understand is why cant the individual dimmers be controlled? For instance Grafix Eye 2000, 3 zones, 4 scenes. What if I wanted to control each zone independently? That would require 8 scenes.

If I buy the 3000 series I would need a wall stations for each zone. Is there a better way?


----------



## Ross E




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *br007* /forum/post/12686538
> 
> 
> What I dont understand is why cant the individual dimmers be controlled? For instance Grafix Eye 2000, 3 zones, 4 scenes. What if I wanted to control each zone independently? That would require 8 scenes.
> 
> If I buy the 3000 series I would need a wall stations for each zone. Is there a better way?



You can control each zone independently. The zones on their own dont count for a scene. A scene is just when you group the 4 zones together, say putting zone 1 on 10%, 2 on 30% etc.


To clarify, I use a MX-850 and a Harmony. I can hit dim all, bright all. Thats not a scene. I can turn any zone on or off, and adjust brightness. Those arent scenes.


Then I can also use the scences. My first scene is for before a movie. Stage lights on full, general cans on 50%, readling lights on 50%, sconce lights on full. Then I hit "Movie" scene (scene 2). All zones dim down to 0 over about 30 seconds. "Reading" scence turns on the cans above the seating.


The only time you need separate wall stations is if you want to have access to the lights other than the main unit, without using a remote, such as a control by an exit door. The wall stations act the same as the 5 buttons on the outside of the main unit. There is off, and 4 scenes.


----------



## br007

Ross

If you look at the IR commands for Grafik Eye basic commands it list

SCENE OFF ,SCENE 1,SCENE 2,SCENE 3,SCENE 4,SCENE 5,SCENE 6,SCENE 7

SCENE 8,SCENE 9,SCENE 10,SCENE 11,SCENE 12,SCENE 13,SCENE 14,

SCENE 15,SCENE 16,MASTER LOWER,MASTER RAISE


If you add on the GRX-IRI you also get

ZONE 1 RAISE,ZONE 2 RAISE,ZONE 3 RAISE,ZONE 4 RAISE,ZONE 5 RAISE

ZONE 6 RAISE,ZONE 7 RAISE,ZONE 8 RAISE,ZONE 1 LOWER,ZONE 2 LOWER

ZONE 3 LOWER,ZONE 4 LOWER,ZONE 5 LOWER,ZONE 6 LOWER,ZONE 7 LOWER

ZONE 8 LOWER,SAVE SCENE


I have seen any IR code for ZONE 1 ON\\OFF, ZONE 2 ON\\OFF, etc

Do I need the wallstation per zone for that?

If all I needed was the Grafik Eye, that would be great.

Then I could use a 2 button companion swithes for 3 way.


----------



## Ross E




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *br007* /forum/post/12687845
> 
> 
> Ross
> 
> If you look at the IR commands for Grafik Eye basic commands it list
> 
> SCENE OFF ,SCENE 1,SCENE 2,SCENE 3,SCENE 4,SCENE 5,SCENE 6,SCENE 7
> 
> SCENE 8,SCENE 9,SCENE 10,SCENE 11,SCENE 12,SCENE 13,SCENE 14,
> 
> SCENE 15,SCENE 16,MASTER LOWER,MASTER RAISE
> 
> 
> If you add on the GRX-IRI you also get
> 
> ZONE 1 RAISE,ZONE 2 RAISE,ZONE 3 RAISE,ZONE 4 RAISE,ZONE 5 RAISE
> 
> ZONE 6 RAISE,ZONE 7 RAISE,ZONE 8 RAISE,ZONE 1 LOWER,ZONE 2 LOWER
> 
> ZONE 3 LOWER,ZONE 4 LOWER,ZONE 5 LOWER,ZONE 6 LOWER,ZONE 7 LOWER
> 
> ZONE 8 LOWER,SAVE SCENE
> 
> 
> I have seen any IR code for ZONE 1 ON\\OFF, ZONE 2 ON\\OFF, etc
> 
> Do I need the wallstation per zone for that?
> 
> If all I needed was the Grafik Eye, that would be great.
> 
> Then I could use a 2 button companion swithes for 3 way.



Sorry if I added any confusion. When I stated turn any zone off and on, I should have said...raise or lower any zone independently. The lowest setting is effectively off and fade up from there to full on. On my harmony the buttons to control each zone are labeled light 1 light 2 light 3 light 4. The scenes are labeled scenes 1-14. I don't use any wallstations, but you may be able to use wallstations to simply turn a zone off and on... someone else will have to chime in.


----------



## br007

Ross

So you must be using the GRX-IRI to raise and lower scenes?


----------



## br007

Now its getting exspensive.

Grafix 3106 $485

3 remote wall switches 3 x 150 = $450

Im up to $935

Add GRX-IRI thats another $80

This doesnt include wiring between Grafix and wall stations.


Is this what everyone is doing?


Isnt there a better way?


----------



## red5908




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *br007* /forum/post/12699882
> 
> 
> Now its getting exspensive.
> 
> Grafix 3106 $485
> 
> 3 remote wall switches 3 x 150 = $450
> 
> Im up to $935
> 
> Add GRX-IRI thats another $80
> 
> This doesnt include wiring between Grafix and wall stations.
> 
> 
> Is this what everyone is doing?
> 
> 
> Isnt there a better way?



You only need wall stations if you want manual control other than the GE front panel. My room has two entrances. I have the GE mounted near one door and a wall station near the other door so I can control the lights manually when entering through either door. I use the GRX-IRI to allow full IR remote control off all zones and scenes.


----------



## dseliger

Someone mentioned LED bulbs up a couple pages so i thought i'd post my experience:


I tried LED bulbs on my GE and they all burned out within a 6 months...they were supposedly dimmable bulbs and werent very cheap so i was pretty bummed that they didnt work out.


Secondly, im thinking about swapping out my 2xxx series GE for a newer one, what does the QS add over the standard 3xxx series? I've read a few posts in this thread but the posts might have been pre-release since some of the links dont work.


Thanks


----------



## VA HDman

I'm installing a 3506 in a 12" Fypon PVC column. I had to trim the Raco adapter plate about 1/8" on each side to get it to fit inside the column. The open in the adapter plate sits inside a hole I cut in the face of the column. The column wall is about 5/8" thick. It used short screws and "liquid nails" adhesive to secure the plate to the column. The column is mounted on a double 5/8" sheetrock wall. The column is about 6" deep so the GE sits about 2" off the sheetrock wall.


Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE?







The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.


----------



## VA HDman

I have two 3506 GEs linked together. The first GE is located in the rec. room. It has three wall stations daisy chained to it (one wall station located by each of the two rec. room entrances, the third wall station on an opposite corner of the rec. room near a pool table. The rec. room GE is located in the poker area, not far from the the entry to the HT. The second GE is located inside the HT (it has no wall stations). The two GEs are connected with a GRX-IRI in the middle. I plan on using the IRI with my IR repeater system. I know the two GEs communicate, because when I select scene 1 (all zones, full on) on any GE or wall station all the lights come on full in both the rec. room and HT. Also when I use the master raise/lower or off buttons both GEs adjust together.


From what I've read, the buttons on the front of the GE are locked into scenes 1-4. If anyone knows of a way to modify these buttins I'd be interested.


My plan is to reassign the scenes on the wall stations in the rec room from 1-4 to 5-6. This will enable me to control the rec room lights without adjusting the HT lights. I'm trying to figure out how to program the dip switches on the GXR-IRI so I can control each room indepent of the other when using a universal remote. Based on my research it looks like I need to assign each GE a seperate number (e.g., A1, A2, ect.). However when I do this, the two GE don't appear to communicate any more. For example, I set the HT GE to A1 and left the rec. room GE as the default A-. If I then select scene 1 from any GE or wallstation the HT GE does not respond but the rec. room GE does. I would have thought that it would have given me a defeult scene 1 (all lights full on) until I modified scene 1 on the HT GE.


If any one has any experience in this, please give me some ideas (or point me to where this is previously discussed if I missed in when scanning the thread).


Second, I haven't been able to get the IRI to respond directly to the Lutron remote. In other words, when both GEs were set as A-, if I pointed the lutron remote at the IR reciever on the IRI and sent a command, nothing happened. I assumed this is becasue I needed to assign numbers to the GEs and then set the dip swithced on the IRI, which is why I adjusted the HT GE to be A1. I stopped messing with the IRI when I noticed that the two GEs didn't appear to be communicating anymore.


Thanks


----------



## rsprance

Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:


The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.

The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".

The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"

The ground is obvious.


The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## brianhutchins




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/12803371
> 
> 
> Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:
> 
> 
> The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.
> 
> The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".
> 
> The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"
> 
> The ground is obvious.
> 
> 
> The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



I think normally the blacks are considered HOT and White is considered neutral. I don't have this unit yet but I think you conect all the White(neutral) wires together, and the black(hot) wires going to the varies zones connect to the to zone X(1-3) out.


Please double check this info though please.


Brian


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VA HDman* /forum/post/12781030
> 
> 
> I'm installing a 3506 in a 12" Fypon PVC column. I had to trim the Raco adapter plate about 1/8" on each side to get it to fit inside the column. The open in the adapter plate sits inside a hole I cut in the face of the column. The column wall is about 5/8" thick. It used short screws and "liquid nails" adhesive to secure the plate to the column. The column is mounted on a double 5/8" sheetrock wall. The column is about 6" deep so the GE sits about 2" off the sheetrock wall.
> 
> 
> Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.



This isn't a question for a forum, this is a question for your electrical inspector or a qualified electrician familiar with the restrictions in your area.


Is that "adapter plate" a low voltage ring or an actual electrical box rated for high voltage devices??


The Grafik Eye is a high voltage device, these things can get HOT, and PVC produces toxic fumes when it burns...

Don't mess around and create something that is not safe.


----------



## rsprance

Just hooked up my 2403 and love it! The installation was so easy with the extra deep masonary box.


If there is any issue I am having, its that the 1st halogen sconce on my sconce chain buzzes when dimmed, but not the other sconces. Strange.


----------



## VA HDman

The adapter plate is line voltage (not low voltage) -- its the Raco style which is discussed many pages back. I'm pretty confident that the additional back box on the Raco will not do anything to seperate/insulate the GE from the column. The GE has been running for several days (8 hrs/ day) while work is going on in the HT. There is no sign of any heat issues. This is probably a pretty good test, since I wouldn't expect the GE to run for such long periods during normal use. I appreciate your concerns and I agree -- safety is always a priority. [BTW, I did have an electricain install the GE. I was just wanting to get other opinions, becuase my first reaction was to question why the back box was not installed.] I'll make sure the inspector looks at it.


----------



## mmattia

Does anybody have an issue with there rope light still being dimly lit even when that zone is not on. I've tried to turn it down all the way but I still see a faint glow from my led rope light. As soon as i turn the Grafix Eye completely off then it does shut off.


Any idea's


----------



## pmeyer

Where do people buy Grafik Eye equipment? I see relatively few on line retailers, and with poor selection. Lutron's site 'where to buy' finder points me at a ceiling fan store 20 miles away. Actually, looking for generic 'grafik eye' I'm finding more, I guess it was just the QS qualifier that was limiting things. Is the QS not really available much yet? Any pointers to where to get the QS online?


(edit: I see now references in earlier posts to going through AVS, DE, or Audible Solutions [can't find the website for that one])


Also, I've been thinking 3106 but might go QS if it's easier to install (shallower in the box). Has anybody actually installed both the old style thicker and the thinner QS that can comment on if it makes much of a difference?


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance* /forum/post/12803371
> 
> 
> Im ready to wire my 2403 and I'm a little confused. Based on the diagram:
> 
> 
> The neutrals (black) from lines 1,2 and 3 go to each independent zone's terminal.
> 
> The hot (white) from the box goes to the "hot".
> 
> The neutral from the box goes to the "neutral"
> 
> The ground is obvious.
> 
> 
> The part I don't get is, what happens to the hot (white) lines I have coming in from each zone? The diagram is unclear about that and desnt even show them.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



Rob,

The feed coming into the box has a hot (black) and a neutral (white). Then you have three switch legs which go to the loads. The switch legs (black) will land on loads 1-3. The neutrals (white) will alll wirenut in with the feed neutral and with a (6") tail that will land on the neutral in terminal.

Be sure the power is off. Grafik Eyes are very expensive and if you miss wire them they will fry. You may want to invest in a contractor...

Lisa


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmattia* /forum/post/12870445
> 
> 
> Does anybody have an issue with there rope light still being dimly lit even when that zone is not on. I've tried to turn it down all the way but I still see a faint glow from my led rope light. As soon as i turn the Grafix Eye completely off then it does shut off.
> 
> 
> Any idea's



You can try adjusting the low-end trim. In programming mode go to 'LE', then adjust the dimming so that the rope is about 20% lit. This cuts out the low end of the dimming cycle. If that doesn't solve the problem I've heard a floerescent interface will work, but I haven't tried it. If you don't need the rope to dim you can set it as a "first on - last off' load, progamming mode 'LS' then set zone so that the top 5 LEDs are lit. (this one I know works...)

Lisa


----------



## pmeyer

I'm throwing out a summary of my lighting control plan, hoping for any input. Please point out any obvious issues or pointers.


I can think of 6 zones for my HT right now:

- cans

- light-shelf rope light

- riser stair light

- spot on wife's chair (for knitting)

- spot on equipment in back


I'm planning to get a 3106 (willing to go QS if anyone can point out the advantages)


The GE will be in the wall in the front left of the room. I have full walk in access to the attic behind that wall. The HT has one entrance, back left. I'll have a wall control to the right of the entrance.


I'll mount two metal 4-gang boxes in the left front, one facing into the HT with the GE mounted on it, one above it, facing out into the walk-in attic space. The two boxes will be connected with four short stubs of metal conduit. I'll run short runs for all the six zones from the GE box to the second box. I'll bring all my loads to the second box and connect up there. All the HV stuff will be done with romex.


(The main driving force behind the dual box, front of room approach is ease of installation and ease of change as I rearrange lighting over time.)


I'll run liberty lutron-grn low voltage cable out of the GE box (not through the second box with the loads) over to the entrance controller.


I plan to have my main IR receiver in the front of the theater by the screen feeding one or more IR transmitters in the back right for my equipment. My hope is to position another IR transmitter off the same receiver facing the GE, either across the room facing it, or hacked into the GE as mentioned in some earlier posts.


My purchase list:

- 3106

- see touch wall controller (tbd)

- lutron-grn cable

- several 4-gang boxes (big ones, as mentioned on page 1 of this thread)


Will I need stranded wire for the short runs between the two boxes? Since I'm doing no wire-nuts in the lower box, I'm assuming crowding won't be an issue and romex will work for the short runs.


Thanks for any tips, and thanks for this thread, it's been a great help.


----------



## pmeyer

(I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)


Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?


In my room:

- I don't need shade control

- I don't need clock/calendar based control


Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/13034492
> 
> 
> (I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)
> 
> 
> Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?
> 
> 
> In my room:
> 
> - I don't need shade control
> 
> - I don't need clock/calendar based control
> 
> 
> Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?



Paul,


Bear in mind I don't own either of these, but I'm leaning towards the QS. I think the biggest reasons are for the IR input on the back, so you can get your remote hooked up to an IR eye elsewhere in the room (different from the front plug on the 3106.) This seems like enough of a benefit already - I really don't want to route my IR to the front of the 3106.


The other benefit is the USB port for programming. I don't know how to program the unit or what software is used, but I'm hopeful it is accessible to the consumer.


-Ryan


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13038193
> 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> 
> Bear in mind I don't own either of these, but I'm leaning towards the QS. I think the biggest reasons are for the IR input on the back, so you can get your remote hooked up to an IR eye elsewhere in the room (different from the front plug on the 3106.) This seems like enough of a benefit already - I really don't want to route my IR to the front of the 3106.
> 
> 
> The other benefit is the USB port for programming. I don't know how to program the unit or what software is used, but I'm hopeful it is accessible to the consumer.
> 
> 
> -Ryan



Ah, I had missed those. Thanks!


I can't see a need for PC connectivity in my case, but I would love an IR extender running to the back of the QS. I'm planning on having an IR receiver at the front of my HT driving my equipment at the back, and my QS will be on the side.


Does anybody know what kind of IR wired connection the QS takes? Since that wire is going into a high-voltage box, I assume the wire has to be rated 600V... Does it have to connect to a specific Lutron IR receiver, or can some other standard IR extender work?


Anybody know what software is used to connect up to the USB port?


----------



## pmeyer

I think I understand this, but I want to check:


If I order a SeeTouch 4 button QS controller, does the price ($150+) include the price of engraving the buttons? I've seen at least one place that mentioned an 'engraving certificate' comes with the controller. I assume I fill that out, send it in and they send me a new set of buttons. Is that correct?


Does the same apply to the QS main controller?


----------



## Dark_Wizard

Quick question to anyone here that can answer this. I have a GRX-3106 and was planning on switching a 240watt amp for my bass shakers using a zone configured with instant on and no dimming. Can this be done and is it fine to do it with this controller?


Edit: Another question, do I need a 12/24vdc ps when using the GRX-3106 and a GRX-IRI?


Thanks,

Bob


----------



## garykagan

I have an extra white cover for the Grafik Eye 3106. Never used, it came in it's own box as an extra. If anyone needs one pm me for info.


thanks,


Gary


----------



## huntrm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/12877481
> 
> 
> Where do people buy Grafik Eye equipment? I see relatively few on line retailers, and with poor selection. Lutron's site 'where to buy' finder points me at a ceiling fan store 20 miles away. Actually, looking for generic 'grafik eye' I'm finding more, I guess it was just the QS qualifier that was limiting things. Is the QS not really available much yet? Any pointers to where to get the QS online?
> 
> 
> (edit: I see now references in earlier posts to going through AVS, DE, or Audible Solutions [can't find the website for that one])
> 
> 
> Also, I've been thinking 3106 but might go QS if it's easier to install (shallower in the box). Has anybody actually installed both the old style thicker and the thinner QS that can comment on if it makes much of a difference?



Assuming you have an Ebay account, put an alert out for the model you want. Weekly, there are ones for sale. I bought a used 3104 for $288 (w/ shipping). It took couple of months for a 3104 to pop up and get it at a decent price, but it worked out well for me - it's installed working perfectly.


----------



## VR6_MTL

I just brought my grx-3104 on craigslist brand new in the box. ! That was a steal !!


----------



## Kensmith48

I've owned a GRX 2404 for approx. 6-7 yrs. with the remote control. I plan on moving to a new house and I'd like to take the 2404 with me. Is there a way to wire in manual switches in place of the Lutron panel? I'm using the 2404 for all 4 zones.


TIA

Ken


----------



## Lisalynn

That should be no problem Ken. The 2404 will be in a 4 gang box with screws holes designed to fit 4 switches (toggle, rocker, or dimmer...) You should get an electrician in to do the wiring -each switch will need a hot feed; 5 wires under one wire nut should be done by a pro.

GL

Lisa


----------



## wadew59

Does the RA-GRX-6 install and stand alone (no other mandatory accessories) similar to the 3106 or 3506? Are there any major differences besides RF vs IR? Also are there modules available or any way to allow the GE to also control ceiling fans with any of these GE models?


Thanks to all for the very informative and helpful thread.


----------



## BillW

The GE will not control ceiling fans, unless you want to program it to be on or off. Even then I'm not sure since it's a motor load if it will need a GRX-TVI. It will operate as a stand alone. RF just means more flexability on where the unit can go without having to run a IR flasher and emitter.


----------



## wadew59

Thanks, but I already understand the pros and cons of RF vs IR. My question was is there any major differences in RA-GRX-6 vs 3106 _besides_ one being RF & the other IR. Although you didn't say so directly, you seem to be indicating there is not. Correct?


It looks like the GRX-TVI will handle switching a 1/4 hp motor @ 120v, which is one ceiling fan. I currently have 2 fans on one circuit in my ht room. If I'm correctly understanding what I could find to read about it, the only control I can achieve with a GE is to switch them off and on. And that would require putting them on separate circuits and using 2 GRX-TVI's. Then I'd still have to change fan speeds manually at the fans. Anyone know of anything better? Otherwise it looks like it'd be better to use a separate, independent fan controller for fan automation. I was simply hoping for a bit cleaner set up by having a GE control it all.


----------



## sfgrafikeye

Hello,

I have a Grafik Eye 3504 with the add-on Radio Ra interface. I now want to add a GRX-PRG computer interface/astronomic time clock which I purchased used, i.e. without cables. I have 2 questions:


1. Where can I get the PELV Class 2 cable in small lengths? I need only a few feet as the GRX-PRG is very close to the 3504 control unit. This type of cable (18ga, twisted pairs) seems hard to come by unless you want a 1000ft roll. I actually found Belden 9740 (unshielded, but Lutron's website lists it for this purpose) for $.20/ft at an electronic surplus place, but they had to cancel my order because they couldn't find it--apparently disappeared when they moved their inventory to a new warehouse. Is connecting GE peripherals and control units the only thing this type of cable is used for? When I google "PELV class 2" all I get are Lutron-related hits. I really don't want to buy a whole roll, so I'm stuck on this one.


2. Lutron general instructions for PELV Class 2 wiring say that all devices are daisy-chained; however, my Radio Ra interface came only with connecting wires, no "in" and "out" terminals. Likewise, the GRX-PRG has only one set of connections for the cable that goes to the control unit, so I'm assuming that it's OK to wire both of these peripherals in parallel to the cable coming off the 3504 control unit.


Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. I've checked out your forum many times in the past year and have learned a lot of really useful things from it.

--John


----------



## jkmw

From earlier posts in this thread:

http://www.hankselectric.com/item156207.ctlg 


not sure it's PELV class 2 but, could be worth a call though.


----------



## wadew59

For the wire, try here. It's priced by the foot, there is no mention of a roll, so I assume they will cut and sell whatever length you request. I'm about to place an order for several items including the wire myself.


Scroll down to the wiring diagram here. You'll have two wires on each terminal when adding an additional interface (the dotted lines for the wire in the diagram go to the next item in the daisy chain).


----------



## sfgrafikeye

Now I see. Each of the four wires coming in is connected together on the one screw terminal with its corresponding wire that goes on to the next device in the chain. I had been thinking wire nuts before. Thanks for the info and the links.

--John


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/13040802
> 
> 
> Does anybody know what kind of IR wired connection the QS takes? Since that wire is going into a high-voltage box, I assume the wire has to be rated 600V... Does it have to connect to a specific Lutron IR receiver, or can some other standard IR extender work?



Paul,


My GE QS arrives today so I'll check, but I believe you can use a standard 3.5mm mono cable to connect the GE to your IR repeater (assuming it provides 3.5mm jacks for IR emitters.) I'll take a look and try to post a picture after I get it unboxed. I'll likely try this out in a week or two as well.


-Ryan


----------



## pmeyer

Thanks for checking.


I'm currently torn between Insteon and GE. Insteon appears to give me much more flexibility/expandability, as well as lower entry price.


I've already got my lutron green cable run for the accessory switch by the door and I still can't decide...


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13540722
> 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> 
> My GE QS arrives today so I'll check, but I believe you can use a standard 3.5mm mono cable to connect the GE to your IR repeater (assuming it provides 3.5mm jacks for IR emitters.) I'll take a look and try to post a picture after I get it unboxed. I'll likely try this out in a week or two as well.
> 
> 
> -Ryan



Everything showed up as ordered (woo hoo!) The wiring on the back of the GE is shown on page 4 of the manual here: javascript:void window.open('/CMS40...xperiment hopefully in a week or two.
-Ryan


----------



## nc-lion

I am considering the GE QS system mostly because of the hardwire IR feature. The Lutron literature I have found is not much help in trying to figure out how to wire this feature up. Do I just run standard CAT-5 from say a buffalo IR repeater system to the terminals on the back? Any assistance would be appreciated.


----------



## pmeyer

If you read the last few posts of the thread, you'll see a discussion on that topic. Bottom line: watch this space for more information.


----------



## nc-lion

Thanks. I did see the last post, but I am still trying to figure out if I can run the hardwire IR over standard CAT5. I cant seem to find anything on the IR system on the GE QS unit. I will keep checking back.. This is a great thread on the topic!


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nc-lion* /forum/post/13568362
> 
> 
> Thanks. I did see the last post, but I am still trying to figure out if I can run the hardwire IR over standard CAT5. I cant seem to find anything on the IR system on the GE QS unit. I will keep checking back.. This is a great thread on the topic!



I'm going to use an IR emitter line and cut off the emitter and just the wire it comes with. I believe you could use the cat-5, but I'm not certain with the buffalo system. I'm using a Logitech Harmony 1000 with the RF Extender kit. I'll probably run cat 5 from the box to the IR location in case I every change how I run IR. When I get this wired and tested I'll report back with details and photos. Hopefully in a week or two.


-Ryan


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VA HDman* /forum/post/12781030
> 
> 
> Here is my question: do I really need to install the metal Raco box behind the GE?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The GE mounts securely inside the adapter plate.



Short answer: Yes. It is required by code.


(The box may or may not have to be metal, depending on your local code. Check with your inspector or a local licensed electrician.)


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/13034492
> 
> 
> (I posted this yesterday, but it appears to have been lost... Reposting)
> 
> 
> Can anyone summarize the advantages of a 6 zone QS over a 3106?
> 
> 
> In my room:
> 
> - I don't need shade control
> 
> - I don't need clock/calendar based control
> 
> 
> Is the QS newer/better/easier-to-use or more future proof?



Go back about two pages and start reading. This was discussed.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wadew59* /forum/post/13353092
> 
> 
> Thanks, but I already understand the pros and cons of RF vs IR. My question was is there any major differences in RA-GRX-6 vs 3106 _besides_ one being RF & the other IR. Although you didn't say so directly, you seem to be indicating there is not. Correct?
> 
> 
> It looks like the GRX-TVI will handle switching a 1/4 hp motor @ 120v, which is one ceiling fan. I currently have 2 fans on one circuit in my ht room. If I'm correctly understanding what I could find to read about it, the only control I can achieve with a GE is to switch them off and on. And that would require putting them on separate circuits and using 2 GRX-TVI's. Then I'd still have to change fan speeds manually at the fans. Anyone know of anything better? Otherwise it looks like it'd be better to use a separate, independent fan controller for fan automation. I was simply hoping for a bit cleaner set up by having a GE control it all.



Many (most?) fan controllers are RF. If you're using a remote to control your GE, you could program it for the fans, too.


And as far as I know, there is no other difference between the RF and IR versions of the GE.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13548591
> 
> 
> I called Lutron and confirmed that this will take a standard 2-wire emitter. What you would do is use an emitter wire, cut off the emitter and wire the two wires to the two connectors.



Remember that since this cable enters the box wherein high voltage lines run, it must be rated accordingly (300V or 600V jacket). If necessary you could wrap it in electrical tape.


----------



## page1

I just finished the installation of my Grafix-Eye QS, and I love it!! The Install was a breeze, the reduced size made it easy to get it and ALL 7 lines of 12-2 in one box. The connections and labels on the back were easy to work and understand. The LCD on the front really steps up the beauty and programmability of the unit. Dimming the various zones was very easy, quick, and the smaller increments allows you to really "dial" in the look and feel of the room(s). The unit is manufactured really well and i feel very confident that it will stand up to may years of use and two small children.


I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found. I have not installed my remote seeTouch Qs units yet, but it looks very easy to program them using the LCD on the Grafik-QS.


(Pictures to Come Soon)


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/13580894
> 
> 
> Remember that since this cable enters the box wherein high voltage lines run, it must be rated accordingly (300V or 600V jacket). If necessary you could wrap it in electrical tape.



I remember. I'm also going to run cat 5, so I may just splice the cat5 to the IR line in my low-voltage box on the other side of the run instead of just running the IR line directly to the GE. I'm hoping I'll get my remote tomorrow locally - otherwise I'll order it and we'll find out for sure how this works soon.


-Ryan


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *page1* /forum/post/13586581
> 
> 
> I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found.



If you do get the USB working, I'd love to hear what the functionality is. Is it just designed to allow GUI programming of the scenes? That doesn't sound that useful, as it sounds like setting up the scenes from the front is pretty easy.


I'd love it if they'd drop an ethernet port in the thing. Install a little web server for programming it up, and accept tcp/ip commands. The ultimate way to get your HTPC controlling your lighting.


Although I suppose routing cat-5 ethernet cable into a j-box with power could be interesting...


----------



## dwoody8118

I just realized I bought the AU version of the GRX-3106 which is 220v-240v...







Will I be able to use that in the US? Can I just use a 240v circuit and then wire everything else up normally?


Dan


----------



## sieberlf

I installed my Grafik Eye QS a while back. I used Cat5 for the IR connection. I insulated the cat5 cable in the junction box with heat shrink tubing rated for 600v. I just got my remote programed this afternoon and happy to report all works great with the GE-QS


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13569032
> 
> 
> I'm going to use an IR emitter line and cut off the emitter and just the wire it comes with. I believe you could use the cat-5, but I'm not certain with the buffalo system. I'm using a Logitech Harmony 1000 with the RF Extender kit. I'll probably run cat 5 from the box to the IR location in case I every change how I run IR. When I get this wired and tested I'll report back with details and photos. Hopefully in a week or two.
> 
> 
> -Ryan



I'm back with a report. I used a mono audio cable with a 3.5mm jack on one end and bare wires on the other. I connected the jack to the plug on my Harmony RF extender and the two wires to the GE directly. Polarity doesn't matter (according to the Lutron support folks), so I didn't pay attention to which wire was connected to which input on the GE.


This solution enabled me to use my Harmony RF remote and for the RF extender to control the GE. It was pretty sweet. I agree with other posts here - this is a good looking unit and it certainly meets my needs. I have several photos of the wiring and all in my build thread. Here's a link to the relevant post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13636926 


-Ryan


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dwoody8118* /forum/post/13597133
> 
> 
> I just realized I bought the AU version of the GRX-3106 which is 220v-240v...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will I be able to use that in the US? Can I just use a 240v circuit and then wire everything else up normally?
> 
> 
> Dan



I doubt it. I think the 220-240V is 50Hz (US is 60Hz). And you don't have a 240V line anyway. If I recall, the single-phase version that you can get out of your panel is 210-220V.


Consider it an expensive mistake.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *page1* /forum/post/13586581
> 
> 
> I have not found a SW suite I use the USB port with yet, so if anyone has see anything i would be very interested in hear what you found. I have not installed my remote seeTouch Qs units yet, but it looks very easy to program them using the LCD on the Grafik-QS.



Have you tried Lutron's Liaison software? I'd be surprised if it didn't work.




> Quote:
> (Pictures to Come Soon)



We're WAAIITINGG!! ...


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13638010
> 
> 
> I have several photos of the wiring and all in my build thread.



Nice thread.


From the pics it looks like the wallstation (and the QS?) have integral terminal strips for the PELV. The ones I've used have a plug so you can detach the low-voltage connections without fiddling with all those tiny wires. Do yours not have the plugs (connectors)?


----------



## John Spicer

I've just read this entire thread, some really useful information.


I want to use I think, a grx-av to control my blinds that switch by contact closure. Whats not clear from the manuals is how the grx-av works on conjunction with the GE. Does the interface take a zone or is it programmed with a scene or anaother way?


Thanks


John


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/13659005
> 
> 
> Nice thread.
> 
> 
> From the pics it looks like the wallstation (and the QS?) have integral terminal strips for the PELV. The ones I've used have a plug so you can detach the low-voltage connections without fiddling with all those tiny wires. Do yours not have the plugs (connectors)?



Thanks. No plugs that I recall - I'll double check when I install permanently next week.


-Ryan


----------



## rmcveigh




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rmcveigh* /forum/post/13727796
> 
> 
> Thanks. No plugs that I recall - I'll double check when I install permanently next week.
> 
> 
> -Ryan



I stand corrected. There are plugs, they were just attached to the GE already. I installed my GE and wall-station this weekend and noticed that the plugs on the unit are easily removed for wiring. All is working for me, I just need to get the programming done.


-Ryan


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Spicer* /forum/post/13727446
> 
> 
> I've just read this entire thread, some really useful information.
> 
> 
> I want to use I think, a grx-av to control my blinds that switch by contact closure. Whats not clear from the manuals is how the grx-av works on conjunction with the GE. Does the interface take a zone or is it programmed with a scene or anaother way?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> John



The GRX-AV has dip switches that, depending on their setting, you can have the input or OUTPUT be a dry contact closure. For example you can set scene 2 to activate a momentary or maintained dry contact output. -It does not take up a zone on the Grafik Eye. The GRX-AV is powered, and communicates with the Grafik Eye via the MUX link wires (4 wires 2-power 2-signal)


----------



## PaulEye

I was told by an electrician supposedly experienced in Grafik Eye installations that I can run a wire from my Marantz RF extender (RX-8001) to the GE, so that I could run the GE in a location that is not in line of sight with the GE (for instance, in a closet). The electrician never called back and doesn't return phone calls, and I need to move on. Tried to ask Lutron how this is done and they acted like I was speaking Greek.

Do you know how this is done? Something about running a low voltage hardwire from the extender to the Grafik Eye?


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulEye* /forum/post/13899729
> 
> 
> I was told by an electrician supposedly experienced in Grafik Eye installations that I can run a wire from my Marantz RF extender (RX-8001) to the GE, so that I could run the GE in a location that is not in line of sight with the GE (for instance, in a closet). The electrician never called back and doesn't return phone calls, and I need to move on. Tried to ask Lutron how this is done and they acted like I was speaking Greek.
> 
> Do you know how this is done? Something about running a low voltage hardwire from the extender to the Grafik Eye?



How about an RF interface..
http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/Insta...es/044030a.pdf


----------



## PaulEye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lisalynn* /forum/post/13900604
> 
> 
> How about an RF interface..
> http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/Insta...es/044030a.pdf



May have also been thinking of the GRX-IRI, which can connect with an emitter from my Matantz RX-8001 and then to the Grafik Eye. I thought he said I could go full hardwire though. Perhaps he was thinking of the GRXI, thought that adds a couple hundred bucks to the project.


----------



## Lisalynn

Crestron has an interface that hardwires to the Lutron MUX link terminals. The ST-LT has a four wire terminal terminal that wires directly to the MUX link. But I dont see that capability with the Marantz...


----------



## PaulEye




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lisalynn* /forum/post/13901128
> 
> 
> Crestron has an interface that hardwires to the Lutron MUX link terminals. The ST-LT has a four wire terminal terminal that wires directly to the MUX link. But I dont see that capability with the Marantz...



Do you know which Crestron model that would be? I'm not wedded to the Marantz.


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulEye* /forum/post/13901213
> 
> 
> Do you know which Crestron model that would be? I'm not wedded to the Marantz.



The ST-LT Lutron Interface Module

It is on pg 66 of the Smartouch catalog
http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCat...rtouch_sts.pdf


----------



## JeffC

This may have been asked...sorry if it has but a few quick yes or no questions.


1) Can I use the shade cotrol on the QS to trigger a screen masking system? basically trigger relays on the masking system


2) I think this is a yes but I need 12 zones, when I hook two together they will work together in terms of setting up scenes correct?


I have read through quite a bit of this thread but didn't see these asked


Thanks Jeff


----------



## brownwa

Have a GE 3104 is there a way to reset to the original factory settings?? Like starting over>?? I remounted a perfectly working system & now none of my lighting works. The GE shows power & zones & such but nothing goes to my zones now, Checked my lighting & all works w/ reg switch & hooked GE back up same way & same results> no lighting Are they easely shorted>>?? HELP


----------



## schlitzie

Best thing to do is to call Lutron Tech Support Monday AM. It is easy to burn Grafik Eyes out - better to be careful here... Their tech support group is very good and has helped me out numerous times over the phone.


----------



## brownwa

Contacted & very helpful, but didn't like the news that it may be bad. Go Figure They want me to get the model # & a code because its an old GE & that they "MAYBE" might have parts or something to correct it... I'll go for it

Thanx for the comeback always appreciated


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffC* /forum/post/14047381
> 
> 
> This may have been asked...sorry if it has but a few quick yes or no questions.
> 
> 
> 1) Can I use the shade cotrol on the QS to trigger a screen masking system? basically trigger relays on the masking system
> 
> 
> 2) I think this is a yes but I need 12 zones, when I hook two together they will work together in terms of setting up scenes correct?
> 
> 
> I have read through quite a bit of this thread but didn't see these asked
> 
> 
> Thanks Jeff



You can use 2 together to get the 12 zones you need, I think the wiring diagram is included with the units (I remember you only use the power supply on one of the 3106). I'm not sure about the screen masking. I would call tech support and let us know!


----------



## JeffC

Thanks BillW I will give them a call. Basically trying to figure out if going with the QS is necessary (added cost). The IR connect is a plus and if I can setup the masking system with the shade control that would work out pretty slick.


thanks Jeff


Edit update- Talked with tech support and the shade control will not work as I was hoping the shade control "talks" to the shade controller I was hoping it I could program the time the contact was closed ie different AR's. but there is ways to set up a scene with for switch closures. For instance 1.78 AR I could setup a scene called 1.78 and the closure will stay connected as long as the scene is active. This could move the masking system to the 1.78 limit switch. Really the same functionality as using the lens transport 12 volt output for in and out but another option to consider.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

If you have a Stewart ElectraScreen ... they use the Lutron QED shade motor. That would make the QS a great choice.


BTW, I don't believe Crestron makes the ST-LT any longer. Should double check.


----------



## JeffC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/14108786
> 
> 
> If you have a Stewart ElectraScreen ... they use the Lutron QED shade motor. That would make the QS a great choice.




thanks Dennis. I am doing my own masking system and was planning on a dual rack and pinion for the transport mechanism. Do yo have more info on the QED shad motor? Or point me to the right place? So if I understand with this setup I could program for precise masking system travel.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Lutron won't sell just the motor/control unit.


----------



## dromayn

Can I use the GE 3106 to separate line voltage (120V) and ELV fixtures in different zones? Is this possible or not?


----------



## sfgrafikeye

I have a GE 3504, and I have recently purchased an ELVI-1000 Low voltage interface, as well as some MR-16 fixtures that accept GU5.3 base bulbs. I now need a low voltage transformer that will be compatible with the GE and the interface. I've looked all over the Lutron site and the instruction manuals, but all they really say is to get a transformer that will work with reverse-phase dimming. They don't seem to sell such a transformer. I'm looking to power 3-4 fixtures at [email protected] with one transformer.

Any help or leads would be greatly appreciated.

Your forum has been, and continues to be extremely helpful to me.

John


----------



## Dennis Erskine

You can mix ELV and MLV on one GE; but, not mix load types on a single zone. MLV doesn't require an interface but most ELV will require an ELVI-1000 interface. You'd need an ELVI for each zone with electronic low voltage transformers ... which is why I generally avoid ELV fixtures and stick to magnetic transformers. You can also control up to 36000 watts on a single GE; but, that's a different story.


The transformer required for your lights needs to come from the lighting fixture vendor or electrical supply company. If you already have the ELVI interface, then you're looking for an electronic low voltage transformer. A Magnetic Low Voltage transformer wouldn't require an interface.


----------



## Lisalynn

John,


You can buy electronic low voltage transformers, they are not much larger than a deck of cards. (I get mine at Light Bulbs Unlimited in Encinitas, CA... tell them Lisa Electric sent you







If you have attic space you can mount them in the attic. You may want to break it down to two 100 watt transformers. This will keep the current lower on the low voltage side. (one transformer for every 2 fixtures). You will want to install them as close the fixtre as possible, and run 12 or 14 guage low voltage wiring (available at home depot) because it has thicker insulation.


Lisa


----------



## jacovn

Can someone tell me if a 3106 will work with a GRX-PRG ?

I read different things in different documents on the Lutron site.


LED1 is on, so i seem to have connected the mux link ok.


I gave the 3106 adress A1, but i never saw the data led light up, if i change scene's (Led 6 on, others on off) I also have a EGRX-4SIR connected, this is on adres 5



I have conected this to a Philips RFX9600 which also receives nothing. I try to send scene change to the GRX-PRG, but this also not works.

I do have 4 other devices working on a RFX9600, so i am pretty sure i have that setup ok.


Do i need any wires on the RS-232 side besides the gnd, send and receive ?


In the manual for the GRX-RS232 i see that power needs to be supplied to the CTS and DTR line to feed the rs-232 side of the unit. Nothing of this i can find in any document on the grx-prg. Also the pin 4 and 5 on the rs-232 connection have 'nc' printed, so i assume this means 'not connected'

Do you actually need to supply this power for the GRX-RS232 ? I have such a unit as well.



Thanks for any help.


----------



## jacovn

Lutron support answered some of the questions this morning.

- GRX-PRG can be used for 31xx grafixeye.

- no CTS and/or DTR singal needed.

- limited options use of the GRX-PRG, most option only for 35xx series.


So i will swap out the GRX-PRG for a GRX-RS232 to check if the unit might be defect. (bought both from e-bay)


----------



## jacovn

The GRX-RS232 works, so it seems the GRX-PRG i bought is broken.

This works quite nicely, much better than pointing the remote for IR control


----------



## pmeyer

I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on my GE. I want a 6 zone QS

- no shade control.

- solid black lid, solid black body, solid black stripe.


My GE will be mounted on the front-left wall of my HT. I've already got a pair of deep 4-gang boxes: one for my GE to face into the HT, one for collecting all my various loads. I'll run cat5 from my IR box to my GE.


I also need an entrance controller:

- 5 button SeeTouch controller, no shade control, no IR

- also black


I've run the right wire (lutron-GRN) from the entrance controller spot to the GE.


Am I correct that both come with a certificate to allow me to get the button engraving done later, or do I have to figure out exactly what my scene names will be now?


Anybody reading who also sells them, please PM me if you are interested in giving me a quote.


----------



## sieberlf

Paul,

I purchased the exact same setup except for color. Yes they both come with the certificate for later engraving


----------



## pmeyer

Sieberlf,


Where did you buy yours?


----------



## hsun

Dear all,


I have a problem with grafik eye and LED bulb. I am using GE 3106, I have LED bulb on zone 3 (about 7 watt) and other incadescent on zone 1, 2, 4, and 5. I set zone 3 (LED) to non dimmable last on, first off. If i set zone 3 to ON, the LED works OK, and if i set zone 3 to OFF it's OK too.


The problem comes when other incadescent also lit WHILE zone 3 (LED) is OFF. LED will appear to be dimmed (or rather, blinking heavily). I'm not sure what is the problem here. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I tried changing the load type of zone 3 from last on, first off to first on first off, and still no effect. I change to magnetic, electric, and try everyone of them but still no luck.


----------



## Lisalynn

I have had that problem using power line (x10) systems, but I have LED zones on Grafik Eyes often and have not had that issue before.


Is the LED switch leg part of a 3 wire (black, red, white) switch leg? (ie: the red goes to the LEDs and the black goes to the can lights?)


Are the LEDs 120 volt, or are you controlling an LED power supply?

Lisa


----------



## hsun

My GE is for international (the voltage is 220 Volt), and my LED is 220 Volt and also 12 Volt (both have the same problem), and the load is 7 Watt in 1 zone, i read somewhere that the minimum load for 1 zone is 25 Watt, does it create this kind of problem?


FYI: My LED has been packed so that it can fit in to the existing light fixture (say PAR30, or something like that)


Any help will be much appreciated thanks


----------



## smakovits

Where can I get the wire that is needed to connect a wall station to the 3106. I have found places that carry it, but I don't feel like buying 500ft for a 5 ft. run. thanks


Also, are there double wall plates that can be used to put over a wall station and a normal none grafik eye dimmer?


----------



## pmeyer

Hanks Electrical Supply has it by the foot, $.48/ft. Click on one of the GEs to get more detail, and it'll be listed underneath as an accessory: look for "Grafik Eye Control Wire". They also sell 4gang boxes.


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/14541269
> 
> 
> Hanks Electrical Supply has it by the foot, $.48/ft. Click on one of the GEs to get more detail, and it'll be listed underneath as an accessory: look for "Grafik Eye Control Wire". They also sell 4gang boxes.



Awesome! Thanks. I just need a single run of this from the wall station to the GE Correct, so if I am 4 ft apart, I am safe with an order for 5 ft. I have been killing myself for a week trying to find this. Now I just need to figure out what to do about my wall plate.


I have a normal knob dimmer (which can me replaced with another if needed) and then the wall station. Is there a wall plate that will fit both? It seems as though the wall station opening is larger than normal, so you can only go with the single plate. If there is no double plate available, I would be OK separating my 2 switches and using 2 single plates, but I am sure it would look way better with one double plate...


Are the prices for the 4 gang masonry at Hanks pretty typical? If so I figure to order it while I am at it too, unless we know of a better price elsewhere. Thanks.


----------



## CSO

Hello,


Is it possible to have a Grafik Eye control a ceiling fan?


Thanks.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/14542022
> 
> 
> Are the prices for the 4 gang masonry at Hanks pretty typical? If so I figure to order it while I am at it too, unless we know of a better price elsewhere. Thanks.



I see $10.78. I think I spent $12. Since you are ordering from them anyway, the shipping savings will offset any price you might save anyway. Go for it.


Paul


----------



## smakovits

Where can I get wire nuts that will take 7 12 AWG wires? Or am I misunderstanding something? If I have a 3106, I have 6 zones, so I have to connect 6 grounds and neutrals +1 extra that actually connects to the GE itself. I was at HD today and the biggest I can find are for 6 12AWG...I would like to think they make them bigger, but it is a matter of finding them at the right place.


Also, when it comes time to prepare for drywall, I know the rule is to not install any outlets or switches for ease of painting and finishing. But when it comes to the GE, do people wire it up at least? The reason I ask, is because right now I have 3 outlets just roughed in so I can control the lights, but I will need to take that down when preparing for the GE, and if I dont install it, then I wont have any lights in the basement...so I would think the easiest would be to install it, but I dont want it to be in the way, so what am I to do, or what do others do to get lighting if I dont want the GE in place when hanging drywall. And before anyone says it, I dont feel like sheet-rocking in the dark. Thanks!


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/14565059
> 
> 
> Where can I get wire nuts that will take 7 12 AWG wires? Or am I misunderstanding something? If I have a 3106, I have 6 zones, so I have to connect 6 grounds and neutrals +1 extra that actually connects to the GE itself. I was at HD today and the biggest I can find are for 6 12AWG...I would like to think they make them bigger, but it is a matter of finding them at the right place.



I would just do it with a few nuts. If you have nuts that can take 4, do: 3106 ground, 2 zones, and a short wire in one nut. The short wire goes to another nut with 2 zones and another short wire, which goes to another nut with the final zones.


Stuff like that is why I plan to have two four gang boxes (the second in the attic above the GE box, connected by a couple of short pieces of conduit). That way there will be loads of space to wire it all up.


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/14565162
> 
> 
> I would just do it with a few nuts. If you have nuts that can take 4, do: 3106 ground, 2 zones, and a short wire in one nut. The short wire goes to another nut with 2 zones and another short wire, which goes to another nut with the final zones.
> 
> 
> Stuff like that is why I plan to have two four gang boxes (the second in the attic above the GE box, connected by a couple of short pieces of conduit). That way there will be loads of space to wire it all up.



Ah, perfect, I was thinking about this, doing a few stringing them together and stuff, however, I was not sure if that was allowed by code.


----------



## Sokoloff

Just go buy a couple of $2 regular switches and wire them into the box that will hold the 3106. Let's you make sure all your wiring isn't hurt by the drywall rotozip, and let's you turn it off at night when you're done...


----------



## smakovits

Where am I to make the connection for the RF repeater? I believe you cant mix high with low voltage in a box, so do I just mark it and have the guys that are to hang the drywall pull the Cat5 out of the wall under the box, so I can make my connection and tuck it back into the wall nicely?


----------



## javadoc

I'm probably asking a really stupid question here but I've been reading this thread (not all 20pgs, but I'm trying), because I'm thinking of using the GrafikEye to control the lighting in my theater. To me, it seems like installation is very straight forward so what am I missing here:


I have four light zones, and I'm thinking of doing a fifth:

1. Main 6" cans

2. 4" cans at front (to light the a/v cabinet and media storage when needed)

3. 3" cans along the sides for entry/exit

4. Step/aisle lighting along wals

5. Possible lighting on edge of riser... but I might incorporate it into "4"


Right now I have one power source coming in for the lights, because I'm not going to exceed 2400W on that circuit... this is going into the 4-gang box on the wall. Out of the 4-gang it goes to the four light 'zones' that I have. Looking at the installation instructions for the GrafikEye, it looks very simple to wire it up. Incoming goes here, outgoing to the zones goes there. Wham, bam... add magic pixie dust as needed, and program the scenes. I've done a lot of electrical, so maybe I'm over-simplifying a bit but...


I guess I'm wondering what I'm missing.


Another item that I need to research, but maybe someone can help me out, how do I control the unit? Is it already set up for IR use, so that I can control it with a Harmony remote? Or, do I need to buy a separate interface?


The GrafikEye looks like the cats meow for theater lighting though. I was looking at doing a system using Lutron Spacers but the GrafikEye looks like a more elegant solution, for about the same price.


Thanks for your help, sage and learn-ed ones.


----------



## oman321

That's about it javadoc,


As far as control it depends on a couple of things. The GE has an IR rcvr on the front of it. So if you have line of sight you'll be good to go. Also depending on where you are placing the unit you'll need to consider how you plan to turn on the unit to the appropiate scene, either by hand or remote. In my case the unit is right before I enter the HT but I use my 3106 to control not only the HT but also the rest of the basement lighting. So I added a NTGRX-1S-WH at the bottom of my steps which sets the GE to scene one and then off when pressed again from whatever scene it's at. This accesory gets wire with regular electrical cable.


In order to control the unit from inside the HT I also managed to get a CIR-WH which is wired with PELV wire. This an IR rcvr. which gets recessed into the ceiling and receives IR signal from the remote in a 360 degree direction. Here's a link to one. Found one on ebay for dirt cheap in comparison to that price though.


They also sell an IR rcvr which goes in a regular electrical box the GRX-IRI . This will also allow to run PELV wire from the GE to where ever you want to control the unit from.


----------



## javadoc

Oh that means I'm not crazy...well at least not because of the GE.


PELV, I don't understand this actually, but this is the power to a Wall Station, correct? How do I wire this up?


Answers to that question may solve an issue that I'm having with entry into the HT. I have the switches inside of the room, but have right now wired a 3-way to turn on the entry/exit 'zone.' Now, if I could rip that 12/3 wire out of the wall and just use a Wall Station in that single gang which I have mounted just outside of the HT, that may make life that much simpler. Is this one way of using a Wall Station then? If so, I'm a bit stimied by the PELV, and where/how to pull power to the Wall Station. It's probably simple too, but I'm not connecting. I'm also assuming that I would just run a length of Cat5 from a wall station to the main GE unit to connect the two, ja?


thx!


----------



## oman321

Basically PELV is a low voltage wire with a high voltage sheathing. Your not supposed to put low voltage wiring (cat 5) in the same box as high voltage wires. PELV is rated to be in the same box as high voltage wires. Most accessories for the GE are made to use the PELV. You can use the NTGRX-4S with PELV to select up to 4 scenes from outside the theater. The power is provided by one or two of the conductors in the PELV wire. If you go with the NTGRX-1S which I mentioned above you can use that existing wire in the wall (you just need to cap off the second leg). Again this accesory goes from off to scence 1 and from whatever scene your on to off.


----------



## javadoc

Oh so it's not a special wire, I can leave the wiring that I have going to that switch in the system and just be sure to wire it accordingly so that it's PELV. That would make things just a bit simpler, and very very cool to be able to turn on a scene when you walk into the room.


Thanks for all the help! Now I just have to sell the woman who lets me live in my house on a $500 "light switch."







She's still recovering from amount that I've spent on resilient channel throughout the basement!


----------



## oman321

I don't think you'll be able to use your existing 12-3 wire as PELV. The wires which make up the PELV are two 18gauge and two thinner wires plus a drain. You wouldn't need the drain in a one accessory setup you do if you connect 2 or more. The main problem you'll have is the connector on the grafik eye and the accessory is small and I dont think it (from what I recall) will accept a 12ga wire. The most I think you can put on it is 2 18ga wires.


Like I said though you can use the 12-3 for the NTGRX-1S, that uses a conventional connection. There's one now on ebay. Also check ebay for deals on the GE.


----------



## MarkDub

Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?


----------



## roar

Well there was some good information on page 4 of this thread, I'd like to try and repeat some of it out loud and see if I can get anyone to tell me I am right or wrong.


I am trying to decide between the 3106 or the 3506. The current plan is to control the Grafik Eye with a Crestron QM-RMC via rs232. From what I gather from page, either unit will do the task.


I believe, ideally, I would like to be able to interrogate the GE to see what state all the zones are in, but from what I gather, without a GR-PRG, the communication I can do over rs232 is only one way and really just mimic's IR.


The only advantage I have with rs232 and no GR-PRG is not having to run an emitter to the front of the GE.


Do I have that all right?


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkDub* /forum/post/14607036
> 
> 
> Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?



I just bought a grx-2404 and the manual showed where to punch out in the box. each end of the unit had 2 zones, so they say to run 2 zones to each end of the box, either top or bottom punchout was fine. not sure if this helps you or is like your unit though. I would check online for your manual just to be sure.


----------



## mdputnam

After installing my Grafix Eye which controls only incandescent lights I've noticed when on very low the bulbs have a soft high frequency hum (not 60Hz). The sound is definitely coming from the light bulbs. For an individual light bulb the sound is very soft and you need to be about 3 feet away from the bulb to hear it. Unfortunately, one of my circuits controls 9 60W bulbs and all together the noise is noticeable throughout the room. Does anybody have any ideas? Could it be the brand of bulbs (Sylvania) ?


----------



## BillW

What you are hearing is the lamp filiments vibrating. Try changing to a 130v lamp if you are using a typical A19 lamp. Sylvinia is a good lamp manufacturer, but you could also try GE or Philips.


----------



## Lisalynn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkDub* /forum/post/14607036
> 
> 
> Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?



You can come in through the top of the box without a problem. It is best to leave the wires pretty long (8-10") so you can lay the bundles neatly along the corners in the box.


----------



## MarkDub

Dthibode and Lisa,

Thanks for the replies - appreciated.


----------



## terrieb24

Where is the best place to purchase an LP dimming panel?


----------



## wsdickerson

I've been working on my basement for 2-1/2 years and saved the theater for last. I was planning to install dimmers and get a Grafik Eye later but I got a deal (Atlanta craigslist) on a GRX-2404-A-WH. The problem is that I have too many zones. Sorry if this has already been covered.


ZoneCircuitlights per circuitwatts per lightwattsA4" cans over screen345135front sconces260120B4" cans at sides6452706" cans rear360180Cside and rear sconces560300Dtrack lights4150600Erope lights ceiling354162rope lights floor15454step light14040exit sign16060curtain (future)16060window (future)16060other future160602041

Should I use a Maestro IR for a zone or two and control all with a Harmony remote? I don't think the ceiling rope lights will need dimming - just on/off. Some loads could be left on whenever the room is occupied. Is it OK to switch the power supplied to the GE? Pulling more wire, external relays, dimmers, etc would not be a problem if necessary.


Any suggestions?


Thanks


Stan


----------



## terrieb24

I dont know why this thread is sticky as the "experts" dont seam to answer...anyways....can I ask where you picked up your 2400 eye?


----------



## wsdickerson

Atlanta craigslist - I'll add that to my message


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terrieb24* /forum/post/14932047
> 
> 
> I dont know why this thread is sticky as the "experts" dont seam to answer...anyways....can I ask where you picked up your 2400 eye?



The expertise here does not extend to finding you deals for your equipment.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MarkDub* /forum/post/14607036
> 
> 
> Simple question vs the others in this thread! I ordered a 4 zone GE, and just passed my rough electrical inspection. I am in the process of putting up drywall and I probably will be ready to do the GE wall before it arrives. Since I have not seen the back of one of these units, is it preferable to punch out the top holes of the Raco 698 box or the back holes to feed the Romex through, given how the wires fit into the box and interface with the GE?



How did you pass electrical without having the box wired?











Btw, don't forget that clamps are required where NM (Romex) enters a metal box. I'd use the top or bottom holes - the ones on the ends for NM, one of the ones in the middle for PELV.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *javadoc* /forum/post/14589807
> 
> 
> Oh so it's not a special wire, I can leave the wiring that I have going to that switch in the system and just be sure to wire it accordingly so that it's PELV.



No.


The PELV for the wallstations is a special four conductor shielded cable a little bit bigger than lamp cord. You cannot use the 14 or 12 AWG NM that's already in the box. The wallstations (with the single exception of NTGRX-1S) do not use 120V power *at all*.


This is all explained on page one of this thread. You might want to re-read it.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wsdickerson* /forum/post/14929302
> 
> 
> IThe problem is that I have too many zones.



Your problem is that you have too many zones for your lighting controller. Either get fewer zones or get more zone controllers. Sounds like you're trying to piece together another GE from external parts - IMO not worth the effort.


Your best bet is reduce the number of dimmable zones by re-thinking how you've broken down your lighting. Group them not by circuit or type of fixture but *by function*.


Here's a sample set of functions based on three scenes (you might have more): Cleaning (everything on full), Entry, Viewing.


Function 0: always on when occupied, undimmed or externally dimmed

Function 1: on for entry, off for viewing, undimmed

Function 2: dimmed to A for entry, dimmed to B* for viewing

Function 3: dimmed to M for entry, dimmed to N* for viewing

Function 4: dimmed to S for entry, dimmed to T* for viewing

* B, N, T could be zero


Now re-build the table and add a column for function. Drop all F0s from the GE. The trick will be to figure out which remaining circuits/types can live at the same dimming levels for each scene. For instance, I'll bet all the sconces can function at the same levels. You will soon see how this translates to zones. You should be able to get by with 4 GE zones if you keep the scenes simple.


What are the track lights for? Accent? Consider using them as F1.


FCircuitZoneF14" cans over screen1F2front sconces2F34" cans at sides3F26" cans rear2F2side and rear sconces2F4track lights4F3rope lights ceiling3F0rope lights floor F0step light F0exit sign ??curtain (future)power curtains & controller -> $$$??window (future)say what?







??other futureanother GE


----------



## terrieb24

Ok DMF....considering an assumption was made that I was looking for something on the cheap.....which if looking for LP panel it is simply not going to be on the cheap and only beared the question because I am not having good internet search results and only have a small town electronics dealer within driving distance..............anyways...other than cost (because cost is why I am scrapping my Grafik eye 4000 series idea with individual panels) and considering a Grafik Eye 2404.....*what is the difference/advantage to the Eye 2000 series vs. a Leviton D3206 (which so far seams to be a better buy)??*


----------



## wsdickerson




> Quote:
> I've been working on my basement for 2-1/2 years ... GRX-2404-A-WH. The problem is that I have too many zones.





> Quote:
> Your problem is that you have too many zones for your lighting controller. Either get fewer zones or ...



I'll reduce it to 4 zones plus the on when occupied.


Thanks


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *terrieb24* /forum/post/14950694
> 
> 
> what is the difference/advantage to the Eye 2000 series vs. a Leviton D3206 (which so far seams to be a better buy)??



Can't say. I'm not familiar with the Leviton product. Got a link?


Of course, the validity of any comment will depend on your needs and you haven't described any. It's a huge jump from 4000 series to 2000 series. Are you sure you know what you want to do with the controller?


----------



## pmeyer

Has anybody used the USB port on the QS to program it from a PC? Is there anything you can do through the PC interface that you can't do from the display? Can you use a PC to control the GE in real time (home automation software on the PC controlling the lights, for example)?


I'm trying to decide between the QS and the 3106. At this point, I can find the 3106 for


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15023143
> 
> 
> Has anybody used the USB port on the QS to program it from a PC? Is there anything you can do through the PC interface that you can't do from the display? Can you use a PC to control the GE in real time (home automation software on the PC controlling the lights, for example)?



When in doubt, call Lutron...


Just got off the phone with tech support. The USB port is not usable. It's there for firmware upgrades only.


I asked if there were plans on making it usable, and he said "eventually, maybe", in a tone that said 'don't hold your breath'.


----------



## antony30bc

Is there a special cable for the IR jack on the back of the Grafik Eye QS, or do we just use PELV (18AWG)? If we use the PELV, would we just solder a 3.5 mm jack to the other end of the two 18AWG wires in the PELV for attaching to an IR distributor?


The diagrams make it look like the Grafik Eye has plug-in connectors for the PELV, is this the case or is it your typical screw down.


Thanks in advance.


Stephen G


----------



## will1383

This is a great thread, and I am still going through it. I do have some specific questions regarding my install.


My install is for full basement lighting control, as well as a home theater room.



So, here's what my install currently contains:


UR MSC-400 base station controller

MX-3000 remote

MX-980 remote


3104 4-zone grafik eye

3106 6-zone grafik eye

2 NTGRX-LB6 5-scene wallstations

2 NTGRX-LB9 8-scene wallstations

1 NTGRX-2B-SL 2-button wallstation



Here are my goals:

- To completely control all lighting zones in my basement.

- To actively control my HT lighting, depending on the situation (cleanup, previews, pause, viewing, gaming, warning, etc)

- To actively control a single window shade, again based on situation

- To actively control a powered screen masking system.


I have not yet purchased any additional products other than what is listed above.



The wiring of these is pretty straight forward, with the exceptions noted in my questions.


These are my questions:

1. Is there a better way to control the shade and screen masking system other than grafik eye?


2. If using grafik eye to control my masking system and shading, what other components are necessary?


3. Do I need the GRX-PRG and/or GRX-232 to properly control the lighting, or can I get away with using either the remotes and/or the MSC-400?


4. If using the remotes and/or the msc-400, do I need to run an IR emitter to the grafik eye related to my HT (it will be located in theater, near the front)?


5. In a couple of the other basement rooms, I am using shop-type flourescent lights. From what I understand, as long as I am setting these to values of 0 or 100 light intensity, I should be ok. Am I correct in this assumption?


6. The Dip switches on the workstations are to setup their address on the lutron data connection, but how do I associate them with specific scenes I've programmed into the devices?


7. Since I am wiring two Grafik eyes on the same data chain, how do I differentiate between which zones are 1-4 and which are 5-10 when I program the scenes?


8. Future proofing. Say I want to move to the QS, will I be able to continuing using the same wallstations, or will I need to swap out my entire system?



Thanks in advance.


----------



## PaulEye

I have some leftover Grafik Eye wire, approx 19', GRX-CBL-346S. If you want it PM me. Just pay the postage (don't want to see it go to waste). First come, first served.


----------



## will1383

Thanks for the Offer. I have a 250' roll sitting here I haven't begun using. I don't think I'll use it all (I hope not, lol)


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15023280
> 
> 
> Just got off the phone with tech support. The USB port is not usable. It's there for firmware upgrades only.



Well that's disappointing. Did you ask how one is supposed to program the QS?



IMO the astronomical clock alone is worth the difference between the 3500 and QS. I have a scene defined for minimal pass-through lighting and have it turn on at dusk and off late in the evening. (Same for pre-dawn.)


----------



## DMF

It's been a while since I've done multiple controller programming or tried to use the older controllers so take what I say with a grain of salt.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will1383* /forum/post/15045103
> 
> 
> 3104 4-zone grafik eye
> 
> 3106 6-zone grafik eye
> 
> 2 NTGRX-LB6 5-scene wallstations
> 
> 2 NTGRX-LB9 8-scene wallstations
> 
> 1 NTGRX-2B-SL 2-button wallstation



First, I think you're making a mistake using the 3100 series instead of the 3500 series. Lutron doesn't even sell the 3100 any more. 3500 has finer control (important in a theater) and a larger command set.



> Quote:
> 3. Do I need the GRX-PRG and/or GRX-232 to properly control the lighting, or can I get away with using either the remotes and/or the MSC-400?



You need neither to control the lighting, but you really want the GRX-CI-PRG (or older GRX-PRG) driven by Lutron's Liaison software to program the system.


You can do most of the programming through the front panel (not through the IR). But it is _really_ tedious to do it that way and unless you're an expert with a well-documented program plan it's easy to screw up. I don't think you can program inter-controller commands which you need with linked controllers.


The GRX-CI-RS232 & -NWK have only a small subset of commands appropriate to the more primitive 3100 series - ones that I don't find particularly useful - plus a couple. They aren't designed for system setup.



> Quote:
> 4. If using the remotes and/or the msc-400, do I need to run an IR emitter to the grafik eye related to my HT (it will be located in theater, near the front)?



If I remember correctly, either one but the HT controller is better. The remote selects a scene on the attached controller and the selection may cause a change at the other controller, depending on how you've programmed it.


> Quote:
> 5. In a couple of the other basement rooms, I am using shop-type flourescent lights. From what I understand, as long as I am setting these to values of 0 or 100 light intensity, I should be ok. Am I correct in this assumption?



No. The fluorescent ballast is still a reactive load. But best to ask Lutron to be sure.


> Quote:
> 6. The Dip switches on the workstations are to setup their address on the lutron data connection, but how do I associate them with specific scenes I've programmed into the devices?



DIP switches. See the Installation manuals.


> Quote:
> 7. Since I am wiring two Grafik eyes on the same data chain, how do I differentiate between which zones are 1-4 and which are 5-10 when I program the scenes?



They're not numbered that way because no device outside the controller itself can deal directly with a zone. External devices deal with scenes. How scenes map to zones is the subject of program design.


> Quote:
> 8. Future proofing. Say I want to move to the QS, will I be able to continuing using the same wallstations, or will I need to swap out my entire system?



They are upwardly compatible. But who knows what the future brings?


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15091556
> 
> 
> Well that's disappointing. Did you ask how one is supposed to program the QS?
> 
> 
> 
> IMO the astronomical clock alone is worth the difference between the 3500 and QS. I have a scene defined for minimal pass-through lighting and have it turn on at dusk and off late in the evening. (Same for pre-dawn.)



No, didn't ask. The implication was that all programing is through the front panel.


I think it is clear that the USB port has the ability to program the QS, it's just a question of them getting software to support it, or adapting their current software.


It's also possible I just got the tech support guy who doesn't know anything...


----------



## will1383




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15091996
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I've done multiple controller programming or tried to use the older controllers so take what I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> 
> First, I think you're making a mistake using the 3100 series instead of the 3500 series. Lutron doesn't even sell the 3100 any more. 3500 has finer control (important in a theater) and a larger command set.
> 
> 
> 
> You need neither to control the lighting, but you really want the GRX-CI-PRG (or older GRX-PRG) driven by Lutron's Liaison software to program the system.
> 
> 
> You can do most of the programming through the front panel (not through the IR). But it is _really_ tedious to do it that way and unless you're an expert with a well-documented program plan it's easy to screw up. I don't think you can program inter-controller commands which you need with linked controllers.
> 
> 
> The GRX-CI-RS232 & -NWK have only a small subset of commands appropriate to the more primitive 3100 series - ones that I don't find particularly useful - plus a couple. They aren't designed for system setup.
> 
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, either one but the HT controller is better. The remote selects a scene on the attached controller and the selection may cause a change at the other controller, depending on how you've programmed it.
> 
> 
> No. The fluorescent ballast is still a reactive load. But best to ask Lutron to be sure.
> 
> 
> DIP switches. See the Installation manuals.
> 
> 
> They're not numbered that way because no device outside the controller itself can deal directly with a zone. External devices deal with scenes. How scenes map to zones is the subject of program design.
> 
> 
> They are upwardly compatible. But who knows what the future brings?



DMF, thanks for the information. I'm still looking for the manuals on how to program them. I ended up with this stuff because I was offered a deal I couldn't resist. I know they are older, but all of that fit within my current budget very easily and gave me more control over my lighting than a basic IR sensor.


I'll have to see if I can find a grx-prg, but that sounds like it'll accomplish what I need, at least for programming the system. However, from there it sounds like I'll have to use an IR emitter from the msc-400 to the controller in order to select the proper scenes, unless I grab the RS232 so I can us that via the msc-400.


At least that's how I think I understand it...


----------



## pmeyer

My GE (6 zone QS) is coming next week, so I got my box ready for it:




















I have easy standing access to the attic behind this wall. With the two boxes, I can have nothing in the room facing box except for wires that touch the GE, and no wire nuts at all. I'll do all wiring in the top box.


The room facing box juts out 1" to account for the gpowers style wall panels.


----------



## will1383

Nice. Looks good. So you decided to go with the double box. sweet!


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will1383* /forum/post/15095555
> 
> 
> Nice. Looks good. So you decided to go with the double box. sweet!



It will definitely make wiring easier.


The main advantage, however, is that it just looks cool!


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *will1383* /forum/post/15093459
> 
> 
> I'll have to see if I can find a grx-prg, but that sounds like it'll accomplish what I need, at least for programming the system.



Don't bother. With the 3100s it's not worth it (unless you want the astronomical clock).



> Quote:
> However, from there it sounds like I'll have to use an IR emitter from the msc-400 to the controller in order to select the proper scenes, unless I grab the RS232 so I can us that via the msc-400.



I'd just stick with the emitter.


All sorts of good stuff buried in the Lutron site http://www.lutron.com/CMS400/page.aspx?id=17775 
http://files.lutron.com/commercial/3k_Complete.pdf


----------



## DMF

Paul, that's a nice looking installation. At first glance the lower box looks shallow. Is it the same depth as the upper?


You will need wire nuts. All incoming grounds and neutrals should be joined in the upper box and a single wire of each run down to the lower. You can strip the NM so that the hot is long enough to reach down into the lower, but you could also use THHN (stranded, which is nice and flexible) because of the conduit. If you pigtail into the lower box you'd never need to pull the GE to work on a circuit. (Not sure I'd pigtail the feed hot, but that's just me.)


For 6 zones you'll need 9 wires plus the data line in to the lower box: feed hot, six zone hots, neutral, ground.


You could bring the data line in through one of the center elbow plates to keep it out of the upper box entirely.


If you're bringing Romex (NM) directly into the upper box, don't forget that you need clamps where it enters the box.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Paul...since you're using a metal box, here's suggestion that will save you some potential grief down the road: When you're done, wrap some electrical tape around the GE (across the top, down the side, across the bottom and up the other side). That will save you some surprises.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15098368
> 
> 
> Paul, that's a nice looking installation. At first glance the lower box looks shallow. Is it the same depth as the upper?



The boxes are identical. The bottom box is shoved 2" into the wall (1" for double dry wall/green glue, 1" to get through the eventual acoustic panel).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15098368
> 
> 
> You will need wire nuts. All incoming grounds and neutrals should be joined in the upper box and a single wire of each run down to the lower. You can strip the NM so that the hot is long enough to reach down into the lower, but you could also use THHN (stranded, which is nice and flexible) because of the conduit. If you pigtail into the lower box you'd never need to pull the GE to work on a circuit. (Not sure I'd pigtail the feed hot, but that's just me.)
> 
> 
> For 6 zones you'll need 9 wires plus the data line in to the lower box: feed hot, six zone hots, neutral, ground.
> 
> 
> You could bring the data line in through one of the center elbow plates to keep it out of the upper box entirely.
> 
> 
> If you're bringing Romex (NM) directly into the upper box, don't forget that you need clamps where it enters the box.



Understood. My point above is that I wouldn't need any wire nuts in the GE box, they'll all be in the upper box.


My current plan:

- power goes into the top box.

* hot lead extends all the way down to the GE directly.

* neutral/ground connect in the top box, with a pigtail going down to the GE.


- The 6 load connections on the GE are all brought up to the top box. Unused ones are labelled/nutted/taped off.


- All loads connect in the top box. There will be a neutral daisy chain and a ground daisy chain. The hot wires will connect up with the corresponding hot wire from the GE.


- I had planned to have all the data/IR lines go through the top box into the bottom box, but looking at it now, I can't see a reason not to wire them directly into the back of the bottom box.


My current plan is to bolt each box directly to the stud on the right there. Just drill a hole, pop in a bolt from the inside, nut/washer on the far side of the stud, and I'm done. Much simpler/sturdier than the 2x4 hack I had planned, and it leaves me access to the elbow openings.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/15098817
> 
> 
> Paul...since you're using a metal box, here's suggestion that will save you some potential grief down the road: When you're done, wrap some electrical tape around the GE (across the top, down the side, across the bottom and up the other side). That will save you some surprises.



Now that's an interesting hint to drop







. I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?


I'll do it, thanks for the advice.


----------



## javadoc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15099188
> 
> 
> Now that's an interesting hint to drop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?
> 
> 
> I'll do it, thanks for the advice.



Correct... Sparks, bad.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> I assume there is some chance of a short of some kind between the sides of the GE and the box?



I've seen it happen (cost the electrician $1000). The other reason, well, ah, hate to admit it but from personal experience ... when you pull the GE out of the box one can be tempted to put one's fingers on the side of the GE to pull on it. That can be an exciting experience.


----------



## will1383




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/15119235
> 
> 
> I've seen it happen (cost the electrician $1000). The other reason, well, ah, hate to admit it but from personal experience ... when you pull the GE out of the box one can be tempted to put one's fingers on the side of the GE to pull on it. That can be an exciting experience.



oh my. very good point, Dennis. Thanks for this advice! I'm installing my 3106 this morning.


----------



## smokinghot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15099171
> 
> 
> ....and it leaves me access to the elbow openings.




whew... I'm glad that's your plan.







I saw the pic, and started to stress. Very clean...nice work.


----------



## DMF

An even better preventative is to not play with it while the circuit is hot.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15137676
> 
> 
> An even better preventative is to not play with it while the circuit is hot.



I didn't even make that connection reading it the first time. No hot, no sparks.










Although I must admit I've wired a few outlets hot. All the wires were tape wrapped, unwrap them one at a time, connect them up, put a piece of tape over the exposed terminal to minimize zap potential. Lots of use of insulated handle needle nose pliers.


The box for the HT is way around the side of the house, back in the weeds, and there are nettles in there!


----------



## pmeyer

(similar post in my build thread, but I thought I should put this in the GE thread as well).


My GE QS 6 zone and Seetouch controller were on my doorstep after dinner tonight. After I put the kids to bed I installed them both. Took about 2 hours.


No issues, works great. The only problem I have now is that I need to replace my can bulbs. They are all random bulbs, different ages, brands, and possibly wattages. They dim differently, which is annoying.


Pictures:





























All the loads, neutral, and ground wired up:











Front view with line, the entrance controller PELV, and some PELV to the back box for future IR connection. All the loads/neutral/ground shoved straight through:











Back view:











Had to remember to leave enough wire bent in the GE box to allow me to pull it later without rewiring:











Back view, all wired up neat and tidy. Only three loads for now (cans, rope, step light). The unused loads are nutted/taped off and shoved in the back corner. For the IR, I just used the #18 gauge pair in some of the PELV I'm using as control wire. For now, it just stubs off in the back box, individually wrapped in tape. Once I get my IR setup going, I'll wire some of the control wire over there.











We have lift-off.




















It works great. When I flipped on the breaker and came back, the lights were on. I hope it doesn't automatically power on every time the power returns after an outage.


No programming yet. It's set up with the 5 buttons mapped to on, three dimmer levels on all zones, and off. I'll do some programming on Wednesday.


----------



## javadoc

Very nice! I can't wait to get my GE installed, which should be soon. I'm focused on getting the projector mounted, and tidying up my a/v and electrical in the room right now though.


----------



## pmeyer

Question on the IR port wiring:


I know the IR wiring needs to have high-voltage sheath, just like the control wire. Does that mean that the other end of the IR wire must end in a junction box? By default, I would just connect it to my Buffalo IR repeater on my rack or behind the screen somewhere, but then I'd have an 'exposed' connection on my IR wired connected into my GE box.


If I do put my IR repeater in a box of some kind and make the connection there, do all the other outputs of the repeater (flashers, the IR receiver) need to be high voltage sheath as well? Or does the code requirement for high voltage sheath end at the first device?


I suppose it must. Otherwise any device that had 120v and a low voltage connection (as most things on my rack do) would have problems.


----------



## DMF

Paul, build pictures are always appreciated. And special thanks for these. I hadn't seen a QS wired; it is quite different from the older GEs that have their high voltage terminals on the sides.


To me the hardest part of wiring these things is getting two of those tiny stranded wires into each data connector port.







One is bad enough, but two! In case you hadn't figured it out (it wasn't obvious to me at first) the data connector is actually a plug. Easier to work on it without having to juggle the fixture too.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15146458
> 
> 
> Question on the IR port wiring:
> 
> 
> I know the IR wiring needs to have high-voltage sheath, just like the control wire. Does that mean that the other end of the IR wire must end in a junction box?



No. Just the bit that's in the box with the high-voltage stuff. As soon as it leaves the box (don't forget to clamp it) you can treat it like the lowly low voltage cable that it is, meaning no boxes.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15150507
> 
> 
> Paul, build pictures are always appreciated. And special thanks for these. I hadn't seen a QS wired; it is quite different from the older GEs that have their high voltage terminals on the sides.



That explains the 'metal box/sparks' comments above. I put a wrap of tape, but I couldn't for the life of my figure out where there was a spark concern.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15150507
> 
> 
> To me the hardest part of wiring these things is getting two of those tiny stranded wires into each data connector port.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One is bad enough, but two! In case you hadn't figured it out (it wasn't obvious to me at first) the data connector is actually a plug. Easier to work on it without having to juggle the fixture too.



No, I hadn't figured out that it was a plug! I wired it directly to the box. It wasn't that hard, though. I only had to do one, as I wasn't daisy chaining anything, just one entrance controller. At that point the box was hanging pretty stiffly from the wall by the line connection and all the straight load lines shoved straight back out into the attic.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15150542
> 
> 
> No. Just the bit that's in the box with the high-voltage stuff. As soon as it leaves the box (don't forget to clamp it) you can treat it like the lowly low voltage cable that it is, meaning no boxes.



That simplifies things. Thanks!


----------



## pmeyer

I figured out why my cans weren't dimming equally: two of them had fluorescent bulbs in them! Quickly fixed.


Also, useful note for anybody doing the double box solution: blank 4-gang cover plates are *NOT* easy to find. I couldn't find them at HD or Lowes. The first electrical supply place I went to didn't have them.


At the second place, the guy played on the computer for a while and went back to the racks several times. At first, he found a 4 gang switch plate that would work, with 4 'switch blank' type plugs to fill the switch holes. He said that was a fallback if he couldn't find one. Eventually he found a beige plastic 4-gang blank cover. $6.


Moral of the story: if you order one of the big four gang boxes online to do a double box solution, buy the cover plate at the same time.


Or, make the 'other box' a triple box. You don't really need the full 4-gang box for the second box, although it does give plenty of room.


----------



## javadoc

Okay, so I spent half of Saturday wiring up lighting, and installing my G-E 3106, and a wall station outside of the room. They all work FLAWLESSLY, aside from the fact that I have 4 zones still to complete installs on.


Pointer to those roughing in wiring: Run the power cable on he LEFT side of the gang box (while facing the box). I had run mine on the right side, and my wires were a smidge short for comfort.


Question: For some reason, my Harmony 880 is not controlling the GE, even though I (thought that I...) programmed it to do so. Am I missing some trick? I set a custom command to goto Scene 2 when you hit "Play," and Scene 3 when you hit "Pause," but it does nothing.


Any help with this?


----------



## oman321

Hey Java,


Did you select the custom scene as the command or did you select play or pause as the command. When you create a sequence you need to select this as the device I believe and then you will have a listing of the sequences which you created.


----------



## javadoc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/15189562
> 
> 
> Hey Java,
> 
> 
> Did you select the custom scene as the command or did you select play or pause as the command. When you create a sequence you need to select this as the device I believe and then you will have a listing of the sequences which you created.



I just set up commands in the 'Light Controller' menus at the Harmony site for programming my remote... I think it's called 'device modes.' Maybe I'm missing something, or need some sort of macro?


----------



## oman321

I'm not able to log in right now to see what it looks like (been a while) but you need to go into the activity you want to set and select customize buttons. At the bottom their should be an "add a sequence" command. Once in this page it will allow to set up a sequence with the devices in that activity, so device DVD player command play, device Light controller command lights off. I would name this sequence Play Lghts Off so not to confuse it with just play. Then you go back to customize buttons and now you tell the hard button function "play" to use device "sequence" and then the command would be "Play Lghts Off". Hope this helps.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

You can also have a Pause sequence...which can automagically bring the lights up when you press "pause"


----------



## javadoc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/15190596
> 
> 
> You can also have a Pause sequence...which can automagically bring the lights up when you press "pause"



Precisely what I'm attempting. Thanks gents, I'll poke around with sequences.


----------



## gigimonagas

A couple questions for the experts:


I own a Marantz RC9001 remote control along with the RX9001 control processor. I bought a Graffik Eye 2404 to control it with my remote:


1. Can I connect my Graffik Eye to the RX9001 via rs232 or I'll have to place an IR emitter on the outside plate to be able to control it?


2. My Graffik Eye on the back plate says "1234" and has some kind of sponge. Is this where the cable (a Cat5 for example from the processor) attaches to the Graffik Eye?


I'm new to this, but I've already hire a professional to program the control. I just want to if I bought the right Graffik Eye.


Thanks in advance,


----------



## DMF

You might try reading the installation instructions that came with your unit. They cover most installation options.


----------



## javadoc

Gah I'm still stumped on the controlling of my 3106 by my Harmony 880. I set up sequences, for when I press PLAY and PAUSE, but the lighting doesn't change. I'm either doing it wrong, or I'm missing some IR component possibly for the 3106?


Can someone give me some pointers? Here's a screenshot of the harmony page where I set up some sequences...


----------



## smakovits

Do I need to use the "drain wire" I am trying to get my GE 3106 in place today. I have one wall station and the GE control wire. I have learned the the wires in the shielding are the MUX wires and the other two are power. I can put them in any order as long as it is the same on each end...the 2 mux go to 3/4 and the red and black to 1/2. but I still have the drain wire. Is the drain wire not required in a single wall station setup. I am thinking this is the case from what I am reading, but I figure it is always best to get confirmation. Thanks.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/15351760
> 
> 
> Do I need to use the "drain wire" I am trying to get my GE 3106 in place today. I have one wall station and the GE control wire. I have learned the the wires in the shielding are the MUX wires and the other two are power. I can put them in any order as long as it is the same on each end...the 2 mux go to 3/4 and the red and black to 1/2. but I still have the drain wire. Is the drain wire not required in a single wall station setup. I am thinking this is the case from what I am reading, but I figure it is always best to get confirmation. Thanks.



On the 6 zone QS and a see touch controller, I did not use the 5th wire. The power, ground, and the twisted pair were all I wired up.


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15353128
> 
> 
> On the 6 zone QS and a see touch controller, I did not use the 5th wire. The power, ground, and the twisted pair were all I wired up.



Yeah after reading the manual 5 time I saw the fine print that mentioned the bare wire is only to be used if I have a "d" port thingy to put it into...I know, real technical there.










So yeah, I didnt use it either and everything turned out great. Now I need to program the thing.


----------



## smakovits

Just want to confirm something as being normal...I have done no programming yet of my 3106, but I have messed with it and want to make sure that the clicking I hear when it turn on and then off is normal. not while dimming, just a click on and then when going to full off, click. Just need the piece of mind that this is normal, it seems normal, but you know how that goes.


----------



## will1383

Both my 3106 and 3104 do the same thing. My guess is there's a relay that switches off the power to all the zones when you hit the master off button.


----------



## javadoc

Okay, I figured out the 'sequence' thing by using my ginormous brain. Okay... my 13yr old daughter helped.










I had made the sequences correctly, but instead of sending a "Play" command from the remote, you have to change the 'Play' command to be the sequence named "play," or whatever you named it. It works great. I also got it to send a power toggle upon exiting the DVD activity, so that my Panny PJ will power down.


Sweet, the lighting control made my day!


I set it to bring some lights up a bit when I hit "Mute" but I need to figure out a way to get it to dim them again after I hit "Mute" again. I know.. it's a remote issue, and not a GE issue.


----------



## will1383




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *javadoc* /forum/post/15365956
> 
> 
> Okay, I figured out the 'sequence' thing by using my ginormous brain. Okay... my 13yr old daughter helped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had made the sequences correctly, but instead of sending a "Play" command from the remote, you have to change the 'Play' command to be the sequence named "play," or whatever you named it. It works great. I also got it to send a power toggle upon exiting the DVD activity, so that my Panny PJ will power down.



Make sure you put a delay in to allow the projector to run the fans and cool off before shutting down completely.



> Quote:
> Sweet, the lighting control made my day!
> 
> 
> I set it to bring some lights up a bit when I hit "Mute" but I need to figure out a way to get it to dim them again after I hit "Mute" again. I know.. it's a remote issue, and not a GE issue.



The sequences, how do you make them? Did you create 3-4 scenes in your grafik eye, then macro them together on the remote, or is there something in the grafik eye that allows you to do multiple things together in a single scene (turn one zone off instantly, bring another zone up using the dimmer capability).


I haven't programmed my controllers yet. I'm going to begin doing that this weekend.


----------



## javadoc

Will, you first program your scenes on the GE. Then, you create sequences when programming the remote. So for my "Play" sequence, I have it sending a play command to the DVD player, and setting the lighting to Scene 2, which I just have some basic floor lighting on.


----------



## will1383

Ok, that's what i thought I needed to do, but I wasn't positive. Wish I had more than 16 scenes available in it. Although, I do have a GRX-RS232 and I haven't yet begun to figure out what I can do beyond using the scenes or programming that up.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/15353998
> 
> 
> Yeah after reading the manual 5 time I saw the fine print that mentioned the bare wire is only to be used if I have a "d" port thingy to put it into...I know, real technical there.



You shouldn't "not use" the drain wire. It is attached to the foil shield inside the jacket of the cable and should be tied to Ground at one point and *one point only* along the cable run. If you have two data cables terminating at the same station or control unit (a daisy chain) the two drain wires should be spliced to each other. The single Ground connection could be at either end or in the middle.


I like to ground the drain where the power supply for the logic bus is. The GE itself will provide enough power for 3 (?) additional units like wall stations. More than that and you need to add an external 12V wall wart (transformer)*. I connect the drain to the same ground as the GE or the wall wart (if there is one).



* Radio Shack has a 12V 1A wall wart for about $18. Electrically the same as Lutron would supply for much more.


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15379512
> 
> 
> You shouldn't "not use" the drain wire. It is attached to the foil shield inside the jacket of the cable and should be tied to Ground at one point and *one point only* along the cable run. If you have two data cables terminating at the same station or control unit (a daisy chain) the two drain wires should be spliced to each other. The single Ground connection could be at either end or in the middle.
> 
> 
> I like to ground the drain where the power supply for the logic bus is. The GE itself will provide enough power for 3 (?) additional units like wall stations. More than that and you need to add an external 12V wall wart (transformer)*. I connect the drain to the same ground as the GE or the wall wart (if there is one).
> 
> 
> 
> * Radio Shack has a 12V 1A wall wart for about $18. Electrically the same as Lutron would supply for much more.



So when the manual says to connect the drain to D but I dont have one, I need to connect to a ground? Why in the world are they so vague on this? What does the drain actually do? I have just the one wall station with no external power, just from the GE. Is this an electrical grounding? Now that everything is nicely in place I would hate to go having to pull things out, but if I really do need at least one end grounded, I will connect the drain at my wall station to the ground/bare copper for that comes for my normal dimmer that is in there. I have to replace the one that is in there now, so thjis would be the easier of the two since i dont feel like screwing with the 40 million wires in the box at the GE 3106.


----------



## Johnsteph10

Just installed the 3106 as one of the last parts in finishing the electrical phase as I build my HT.


This thing is incredibly sharp and is absolutely cool!


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/15381390
> 
> 
> So when the manual says to connect the drain to D but I dont have one, I need to connect to a ground? Why in the world are they so vague on this? What does the drain actually do? I have just the one wall station with no external power, just from the GE. Is this an electrical grounding?



I rather think they expect the installer to have a more sophisticated understanding of electrical engineering than many installers do. The foil shield is just like the shield in your audio cables. If it's not grounded then the ambient electromagnetic fields can create a voltage potential between the shield and the signal wires. That voltage differential also has an electrical field and represents leakage of the fields outside the shield. The result is noise - maybe not at the full intensity you would get with the absence of a shield, but noise nonetheless.


Think of it this way. An ungrounded shield is less effective than a properly grounded one. Do you really _need_ to ground it? No way to say. You could be fine with a floating ground. On a data line it's kinda hard to tell.


FYI, grounding at more than one point introduces the potential for ground loops.



> Quote:
> Now that everything is nicely in place I would hate to go having to pull things out, but if I really do need at least one end grounded, I will connect the drain at my wall station to the ground/bare copper for that comes for my normal dimmer that is in there.



I would connect it. A foreign ground isn't optimal, but in theory it is at the same potential as the ground for the GE, especially if they're on the same breaker.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).


----------



## Johnsteph10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/15406357
> 
> 
> Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).



...but they sure keep the alien mind control messages from getting in my head.


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/15406274
> 
> 
> I rather think they expect the installer to have a more sophisticated understanding of electrical engineering than many installers do. The foil shield is just like the shield in your audio cables. If it's not grounded then the ambient electromagnetic fields can create a voltage potential between the shield and the signal wires. That voltage differential also has an electrical field and represents leakage of the fields outside the shield. The result is noise - maybe not at the full intensity you would get with the absence of a shield, but noise nonetheless.
> 
> 
> Think of it this way. An ungrounded shield is less effective than a properly grounded one. Do you really _need_ to ground it? No way to say. You could be fine with a floating ground. On a data line it's kinda hard to tell.
> 
> 
> FYI, grounding at more than one point introduces the potential for ground loops.
> 
> 
> 
> I would connect it. A foreign ground isn't optimal, but in theory it is at the same potential as the ground for the GE, especially if they're on the same breaker.



I was just reading in the manual and after missing it about 5 times I found a part where it says, "If shielded wire is used, the drain wires must be connected to each other or to Terminal D, if present. Drain wires should not be connected to earth/ground." I have just one wall station and the 3106, the way I read it is that since I do not have a terminal D I should not connect the drain wire to anything because the only thing left is the earth ground... Is this right?


----------



## pmeyer

I've got my GE 6-zone QS integrated with my setup now. A few things I learned might be helpful to others:


1) the IR input port polarity *does* seem to matter for me. At one point during my setup debug, I had the mini-plug to GE polarity reversed ('comm' connected to the tip of the miniplug rather than the sheath). At that point, the GE control didn't work. When I reversed the polarity, it did, nothing else changing.


The polarity that worked for me (connecting to my Buffalo IR block via mono-mini-plug) was IR-Data to the mini-plug tip, IR-Comm to the mini-plug sheath.


This makes sense (mini-plug sheath is typically 'ground'), but seems to contradict what somebody above heard from Lutron support (that polarity didn't matter). YMMV.


2) When I first connected my GE to the Buffalo IR block as a flasher, all the flashers in my system (and the green LED on the block) went solid on, indicating a ground problem or major noise in the system. IR control still worked to some devices, but it was flaky. Poking around, I realized that if I touched the outer metal of my IR receiver (they 'eye'), the flashers all went off. I wasn't grounded, so it seemed like a capacitive issue.


For the heck of it, I tried running a separate ground wire (from a nearby receptacle on the same circuit as the IR repeater, different circuit from the GE) to the outer case of my IR receiver eye. It worked. All the flashers went off, and my IR control works fine for everything.


When in doubt, try playing with grounds.


3) I got my Harmony remote programmed up. The advice above worked:
pick the activity you are interested in
go to 'customize buttons'
click 'add a sequence'
create a sequence labeled 'play'
- add step 'lights' -> 'scene 2'
- add step 'PS3' -> 'play'
Assign the 'play' button to the 'sequence' 'play'


I set it up so that 'play' triggers scene 2 (all off except dim rope lights and step lights), 'pause' triggers scene 3 (medium lights for getting around without blasting your eyes.


I also went in and added 'lights' and 'dim' as the bottom two touch screen buttons in each of the activities.


When I tried it out, I realized two things:

1) I need to add 'scene 3' to the STOP button as well, and

2) When I'm done with a movie or cable, I typically just hit the Harmony 'power off' button, which turns off the ps3/rs20/receiver. This was leaving the lights off.


So, I went back and added a stop sequence just like play and pause.


I also went into each of my activities, found the 'when you leave this activity' section, and added a 'lights' -> 'scene 3' command. If I power down, lights should now come up.


Minor problem, if I switch from one activity (DVD) to another (Cable), the lights will come up. Since I have a 'dim' touch screen button on the front page of each activity, this is only a minor inconvenience.


Hope this saves somebody else a bit of debugging. I spent about four frustrating hours yesterday debugging the polarity/noise issue...


----------



## oman321

Good stuff Pmeyer,


I'm using buffalo IR reciever with my xantech block and they work great but I am getting some flashing of my IR emitters and sometimes they are lit solid. They respond fine, I haven't had an issue with missed commands and I discovered that they are sensitve to regular lighting. If my lights are dim the emitters will blink, if they are all the way up they appear to be on solid but are probably blinking really fast. With the lights off no blinking.


Just to be clear, you ran the ground which is part of the voltage and signal connection and then ran a seperate ground to the outer metal case. I'll have to try this and see if it has any effect on my receivers.


Also to solve your lights rising up issue between commands you should set your lights to a setting of always on. It seems like when you come in you pick your own command or you can still send a scene command at the start of your most common activities. I have mine set to always on and my GE is at the entrance of my HT so I get to pick my command, switching between activities leaves the lighting right where it's at.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/15461717
> 
> 
> Good stuff Pmeyer,
> 
> Just to be clear, you ran the ground which is part of the voltage and signal connection and then ran a seperate ground to the outer metal case. I'll have to try this and see if it has any effect on my receivers.



This is correct. Between the IR receiver and the IR 'amplifier' or whatever, I have a 30' Cat5 run. The v+ and signal share one twisted pair, and ground has both wires of another twisted pair (as recommended by Buffalo). With this, I get lots of noise when I plug in my GE.


If I run a separate 3' ground from my IR receiver 'eye' casing to a nearby outlet, my noise problem disappears. No idea why.



> Quote:
> Also to solve your lights rising up issue between commands you should set your lights to a setting of always on. It seems like when you come in you pick your own command or you can still send a scene command at the start of your most common activities. I have mine set to always on and my GE is at the entrance of my HT so I get to pick my command, switching between activities leaves the lighting right where it's at.



I don't think I followed that.


What I really want is:

1) When I walk in the theater, I hit the button and turn on the lights (Scene #1)

2) When I enter an activity for the first time (warming up the projector, etc.) the lights are not affected, or go to scene #1.

3) When I hit play, the lights go dim. (scene #2)

4) When I switch from one activity to another, lights stay dim.

5) When I quit (leave an activity without entering another), lights go up.


The problem I have now is that I don't see a way to tie something to the 'power off' button. I can tie a light command to leaving or entering an activity, but if I do that it's hard to get both 4 and 5.


Thinking about it since the original post, I'm not sure it's really a problem. When I switch activities (e.g. going from TV to a DVD) I probably want the lights to come up anyway. I'll be futzing around finding a channel, or putting in a DVD, or whatever. I can hit the dim button (or play) when I'm ready to go.


I'll even map the 'play' button to dim the lights in normal TV watching mode, to be consistent.


----------



## oman321

Ok, I thought the lights coming up between activities would be an issue but they might be in your favor if like you said you'll need to get a DVD or something.


Hmm... now that I think about it, if you don't set the lights to "always on" when you exit an activity by hitting off you will raise your lights then go to off. So lights going up at the end of an activity should also work if you set lights to always on and then add the command at the end of every activity to raise lights to your desired scene when exiting.

I know your going to the desired scene by hitting stop but if your watching live tv you wouldn't necessarily hit off.


It's been a while since I've gone in to do programming but I believe this is what you need to get the lights to raise and stay on when you hit off. I take it your lights are turning off when you hit off?


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/15462468
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I've gone in to do programming but I believe this is what you need to get the lights to raise and stay on when you hit off. I take it your lights are turning off when you hit off?



Actually, I haven't tested my latest setup, so I'm not sure.


What I expect to happen right now: if I'm in an activity and I hit 'off', the lights will come up (as I've got a 'scene 3' command in the exit routine for every activity).


I think that actually works just fine for me, so I'm good to go.


The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.


What I really need is an awareness in the 'enter'/'exit' routines as to whether I'm coming from/going to another activity, or from/to 'idle'.


No biggie.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15462547
> 
> 
> 
> The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.




I guess you have to think of what would be preferred having the lights always come up when exiting an activity or having them stay where they are at and then selecting a preffered or necessary scene once you get into the activity.


I would likely go from watching a DVD to watching live TV or something on my DVR vs. the other way around. So I wouldn't have to get up to fiddle with anything. At the same time though I have the option on the remote screen to go right the scene I need.


The other thing I'm thinking is if you duplicating the sequence commands across activities for consistency and your hitting stop on the remote and go to a lighted scene then your lights will stay raised if you have the power setting set to always on when leaving the activity. That should be the case when leaving an activity for another or off. Different ways to do it I suppose just have to figure out which way is best for you. Good Luck.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/15406357
> 
> 
> Aluminium foil shields are not helpful for electromagnetic induced problems (if you actually have any).



True. It would have to be a ferrous material. Are you suggesting that the foil shields in the cable are not shields?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/15453039
> 
> 
> "If shielded wire is used, the drain wires must be connected to each other or to Terminal D, if present. *Drain wires should not be connected to earth/ground.*"



That's news to me. Perhaps the say that to avoid the ground loop issue. Or perhaps they use a floating ground (though what difference that would make with only one end connected I don't know).


I suggest you contact Lutron Tech Support on this one. In the meantime might as well leave it unconnected.


Edit:

They intend that the drain wire be grounded, but only in one location. That is, where there is a Terminal D (which if I recall correctly is on the control unit).


----------



## will1383




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15462547
> 
> 
> Actually, I haven't tested my latest setup, so I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> What I expect to happen right now: if I'm in an activity and I hit 'off', the lights will come up (as I've got a 'scene 3' command in the exit routine for every activity).
> 
> 
> I think that actually works just fine for me, so I'm good to go.
> 
> 
> The only limitation is that if I didn't want lights to come up when switching from one activity to another, I'm not sure how to make that work. When leaving one activity, the lights come up. I could put 'dim' in the enter routine of each activity, but then when I walk in, turn on the lights, and hit the 'Watch DVD' activity, the lights would dim. Since it'll take a few minutes for the projector to come on and for me to load the DVD, I don't normally want that.
> 
> 
> What I really need is an awareness in the 'enter'/'exit' routines as to whether I'm coming from/going to another activity, or from/to 'idle'.
> 
> 
> No biggie.



You can lock out which ever zones you don't want touched for a particular scene. As for time, you can add quite a bit of time to the dimmer, but you are really talking about a combination of macro programming to get the timing right and the scene transition to have the lights do what you want them to.


So, there's two pieces:

1. the lights do what you want

2. the action occurs when you want.


----------



## lesterm

I've searched but couldn't quite find a good answer. Is it possible to use a Grafik Eye with a table lamp on a switched receptacle?


----------



## wkearney99

A grafix eye controls an AC circuit. A table lamp plugged into a receptacle is an AC circuit. From technical standpoint you could use a GE to do this. But from an electrical code standpoint you're not supposed to do this. Mainly because someone could accidentally plug in something like a vacuum cleaner to something else that would be harmed by, or cause harm to, the dimmer circuit. I believe there are special plugs and outlets you can get for use in such situations. That way only the lamp with that plug could be used in that outlet, not a regular AC appliance.


----------



## CSO

Am I fooling myself thinking I can fit a Grafik Eye controller into a Carlon Super Blue box?


----------



## will1383




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CSO* /forum/post/15592833
> 
> 
> Am I fooling myself thinking I can fit a Grafik Eye controller into a Carlon Super Blue box?



Yup. Absolutely.


----------



## Mr. Wilby

Hi


I made a post here about using a Grafik Eye and the CoolSky LED Fibre Optic light engine together:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111388 


...however, nobody has replied yet so I'm not sure anybody (besides the chap I mentioned) is really using it.


Does anybody know how it might be possible for a GE to dim this unit natively? The person in question (FineDesign) indicates that the GE fully controls his CoolSky light engine...


Could it be that he is using a Grafik Eye Integrale (or whatever it's called), i.e. the Lutron GE that includes support for LED and other "difficult" lighting sources natively?


My understanding is that in order to dim this, (if indeed it is even possible) I would have to buy a LUT-LBX (ballast) to add minimum load to the circuit?


Also, this unit (like most LED units I suppose) is DC driven, not AC driven. If the GE dims the socket into which the CoolSky AC->DC transformer is plugged, can this actually affect the low-voltage output from the DC transformer? As you can tell, I'm not an electrician 


I'm using a 3106 if that helps...


Thanks for any advice!


----------



## MarkDub

CSO - I know this has probably been covered in this thread before, but I just watched my electrician connect my 4 zone grafik eye, and trust me even he was happy to have the depth of the recommended raco masonry box.

It's so sweet now that it's hooked up...the electrician was a bit giddy about how it works.


----------



## topperge

I'm planning on putting a Grafik Eye into my workshop. I'm looking at the 6 zone QSG-6P-120. On the setup I'm planning on putting 19 65 watt can lights, 6 scone like side lights (75 watts each). This will put me at 1650-1700 watts on a 20 amp circuit. I know a 20 amp can handle up to 1920 watts safely, but I've always been told no more than 15 lights on a 20 amp circuit. Am I being too cautious or should I really try to split this to two separate circuits?


Thanks,

Matt


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *topperge* /forum/post/15636319
> 
> 
> I'm planning on putting a Grafik Eye into my workshop. I'm looking at the 6 zone QSG-6P-120. On the setup I'm planning on putting 19 65 watt can lights, 6 scone like side lights (75 watts each). This will put me at 1650-1700 watts on a 20 amp circuit. I know a 20 amp can handle up to 1920 watts safely, but I've always been told no more than 15 lights on a 20 amp circuit. Am I being too cautious or should I really try to split this to two separate circuits?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Matt



You are fine as long as the maximum rated bulb is 65 for the cans and 75 for the sconces. The concern being someone could change the bulbs to a igher wattage and over draw the circuit.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillW* /forum/post/15638220
> 
> 
> You are fine as long as the maximum rated bulb is 65 for the cans and 75 for the sconces. The concern being someone could change the bulbs to a igher wattage and over draw the circuit.



I'm guessing the cans will be not be rated for 100 watt bulbs. You can check the labels. If they are not, then the person putting in 100 watt bulbs would have bigger problems than blowing fuses every time he turns on the lights.


I'd say don't worry about it. In a few years, everything will be LED or fluorescent bulbs anyway which will pull less power.


----------



## CSO

Here is a retrofit installation of a 3 lighting zone Lutron Grafik Eye that I did recently. I am not an electrician, so I won't pretend that this is a tutorial. Rather it is how I installed my GE.


Picture 1: The existing 3 gang switch bank.










Picture 2: Turn off the breaker and remove the switches. Bend the wires as straight as possible.










Picture 3: Carefully destroy the existing switch box so that it can be removed. Tin snips work well here.










Picture 4: The existing wall box comes out in pieces.










Picture 5: Box removal is slow going. Be careful to not damage the wires.










Picture 6: Eventually the box will come out.










Picture 7: Enlarge the opening to fit the 4 gang Raco 698 masonry box.










Picture 8: Prepare the box. Put the cable clamps inside the box.










Picture 9: Yes the clamps are tightly installed inside the box. I know, clamps are normally installed outside the box.










Picture 10: Begin installing the box in the wall. Be sure the clamps are as wide open as possible.










Picture 11: The box fits in the wall. I used 2 screws in the side to fasten it to the right stud. Tighten the wire clamps once the box is in place Here, I've pulled a conduit up from the basement, and there is a yellow low voltage control wire entering the box.










Picture 12: Red heat shrink tubing is placed over the yellow wire. This is to give the jacket a higher voltage rating.










Picture 13: The gap around the box is caulked giving it a neater appearance. The opening has to be a little oversized to allow manipulation of the box into the wall.










Picture 14: Bond the all the grounds together. Bond all the whites together. Here I've used extra large blue wire nuts, and the pig tails coming from these connections to the Grafik Eye are *stranded* 12 gauge. The stranded wire is much easier to bend when it is time to install the Grafik Eye.










Picture 15: All the leads are pig tailed with stranded wire which will eventually connect to the Grafik Eye.










Picture 16: Making the connections to the Grafik Eye with the stranded wire. I couldn't imagine doing this in a shallower box or with solid core wire.










Picture 17: Device mounted in the wall.










Picture 18: Very cool, especially at night.










Now, my next task is to connect the low voltage control wire and install the occupancy sensor. Eventually shades will be part of the installation.


----------



## dthibode

Looks awesome, great idea using stranded wire. I'm having the same issue right now, can't get the wires to bend while pushing the lutron into the box. Thanks!


----------



## oman321

Nice job, great install.


----------



## DMF

Very nice job!


I really like the idea of inverting the clamps, and using stranded pigtails was sharp thinking, too. (Did you read one of my old posts.







)


I bet that old box was a real PITA to get out. I had to do something similar to add a fourth switch and I ended up opening the whole wall (largely to get a hanger in between the studs to support the new plastic box - yet another reason to use metal!). Cutting out the old box was rivaled only by pulling an armored cable down through an outside wall where there was only 2" of clearance on top of the plate and no assistant to stick with the job.










Do you know if the new 3-zone GE (QS?) is the same size as the 6-zone GE (QS?)? In the older series they're smaller.



I'm going to try to link this post to a page one article so it won't disappear over time. Will the pictures be hosted for long?


----------



## dthibode

I read this before I installed my grafik eye and talked to the city electical inspector. He said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation. I ended up using solid core wire and it went in just fine. The key was getting the insulation stripped back as far as possible. Again, that's just what he said. I needed to pass the inspection to close out my permits so I didn't argue. I would've just went with stranded myself.


----------



## Johnsteph10

My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.


I agree with above.


I had room to spare in my box.


The keys:


Run the wires into the box close to where they will be attached to the Grafik eye.

Be aggressive in stripping the wire to leave yourself plenty of room


Be prepared to carefully bend wires into place.


The grafik eye isn't super deep but most of us run a LOT of wires into it...it can get difficult.


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnsteph10* /forum/post/15912427
> 
> 
> The grafik eye isn't super deep but most of us run a LOT of wires into it...it can get difficult.



I have a blue plastic box which looked pretty small but the inspector measured and insisted I'd have, "plenty of room". It was alot tougher than that to get it all in there! It would've been worth the extra cost for a deeper metal box for sure.


----------



## Jedi

I'm trying to control my GRX-3106 connected with a GRX-IRI using a handheld URC remote control, in RF mode, but not having any success. For the record, my URC handheld remote is an MX-850, and the system's RF translator/repeater station is an MRF-300. The pathway is MX-850 --(RF) --> MRF-300 --(IR) --> GRX-IRI --(MUX)--> GRX-3106.


I read where others were successful doing this same thing using Harmony RF repeater products, but my question is has anyone been able to use URC's RF products to control their Grafik Eye? The pathway works fine if I use the URC handlheld in IR mode and send the commands aimed directly into the GRX-IRI. This tells me the GRX-IRI and Grafik Eye unit are talking correctly. But, when I switch to RF mode and send the same commands through MRF station to the GRX-IRI, no success. It's like URC cannot translate this signal from RF to IR, whereas Harmony seems capable of doing so. I'm also experiencing the same problem on my Makita Motorized Drapery -- IR mode works fine, RF does not work at all.


----------



## Jedi

...found my problem, had to reverse polarity on the 2-wire blaster. Seems polarity matters when connecting onto a MRF distribution block. Thanks to Mike at Surf Remote for the tip.


----------



## kjlewie

I am finally ready to order my GE QS. All of the information I've gathered over many months of research has come primarily from AVS and specifically this thread. As a result, I figured I'd give AVS the first crack at earning my business. I emailed AVS for a price quote on the QS and a wallstation, but learned that AVS doesn't sell the QS. There were a couple of other retailers mentioned in this thread, but I can't find them - kind of stumped at the search feature. Who are some of the retailers (online and otherwise) that you've used for the QS?


Thanks


----------



## chumbucket




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/15912606
> 
> 
> I have a blue plastic box which looked pretty small but the inspector measured and insisted I'd have, "plenty of room". It was alot tougher than that to get it all in there! It would've been worth the extra cost for a deeper metal box for sure.



Which GRX and which box did you use? Is it possible to get a 4 zone GRX into a Carlon Blue Super Box? I'd rather not chop it out if I don't have to. Any issues with noise?


----------



## FALKAN

I only need approx 75 ft. of the LV cable for my remote pads to connect to my 3106. Where can I find the LV cable by the foot...or just a 100 foot spool?


----------



## CSO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnsteph10* /forum/post/15912427
> 
> 
> My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/15911715
> 
> 
> He said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation.



My experience is that debating logical interpretation of NEC with an inspector is a useless endeavor, so I understand just doing what the inspector says to pass inspection. However, I would be curious to see where in the NEC connecting solid and stranded wire is prohibited--provided that all the connectors are rated for solid and stranded conductors and when the stranded wire is housed in a grounded metal box.


Just think of the millions of light fixtures that are wired with stranded wire and then wire nutted to the house's NM (solid) wiring. Tell me that's a violation of NEC.


----------



## CSO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FALKAN* /forum/post/16116912
> 
> 
> I only need approx 75 ft. of the LV cable for my remote pads to connect to my 3106. Where can I find the LV cable by the foot...or just a 100 foot spool?



I am also in pursuit of this Lutron's LV wire. A Google search shows that HanksElectric.com sells it by the foot.


----------



## CSO

Hello Grafik Eye experts,

I need some advice on a non home theater installation of a Grafik Eye controller. I plan on using the controller for several accent lights on the exterior of my house creating various lighting scenes. The outside lights include coach lights, soffit lights, a yard post light, etc. My question relates to GFCI protection for the yard post light. Should the whole system be on a dedicated GFCI circuit via a breaker, or should the post light have its own GFCI protection? See my simplified wiring diagram below.











I think option B affords the most protection for the Grafik Eye controller with regards to the post light, but I want to be able to dim the post light. I'm not sure it is wise to dim a load on a dead front GFCI.


Thoughts?


P.S. By dead front GFCI, I mean the type of GFCI used on pools or whirlpool tubs. It's a single gang device mounted in the wall like an outlet, but has no receptalces.


Update: I wired things up to try out the different scenarios. First, I can attest to the fact that a Grafik Eye controller works fine when fed by a GFCI breaker. Second, a GFCI on the output of the Grafik Eye only affords protection when the Grafik Eye is not dimming the load. So my options are to either not use a GFCI on the output of the Grafik Eye (this pertains to the yard post light load) or to use the GFCI on the output, but redefine the zone as a no dim zone. Incidentally, Leviton makes a GFCI that is supposedly suitable for placement on the output of a dimmer, but it is not a standard 1 gang GFCI, and it retails for >$100.


----------



## FALKAN

CSO - Thanks for the link...I contacted them and got what I needed.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/15911715
> 
> 
> the city electical inspector ... said mixing the solid core with stranded is a code violation.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnsteph10* /forum/post/15912427
> 
> 
> My inspector also said you can not mix solid and stranded wire.



First, in practical terms that's a crock. Every fixture made uses stranded, as mentioned.


Second, next time someone runs into this, agree to make the changes requested. Then ask the inspector to cite the rule being enforced. It's possible that this isn't an issue with the NEC at all. Local jurisdictions don't have to use the NEC and some don't. It may be purely a local thing.


----------



## Johnsteph10

It does not apply to terminal electrical devices (ie: lighting, etc.) only to using it in runs....at least according to what I have been told.


----------



## DMF

If you use it in runs, it has to be in conduit. Maybe that's what they were objecting to?


----------



## GetGray

Phew. Never knew it would be this complicated







. I have read the thread and my head is still spinning. So may choices is seems. And sinc eit was started so long ago, apparently there's a lot of new options (e.g. QS)


Can someone give me a nudge in the right direction? I need ligiting control for a theater room, 4 ligiting zones is all I can think of, so planning on six to be safe. No shade control necessary. I'd like to control the lights via a URC MSC-400. I prefer no (external) IR repeaters on any wall panels, however if it saved substantially, I can live with them. The room has 3 entrances. I figured I can place the main unit near the main entrance, for the other 2 entrances I just need an on and a all-off control.


I am presuming I need the QS if for no other reason than the IR input. But I'm not sure. Can someone tell me which Lutron components I need for this situation? Of course in the most economical-to-fit-needs selections.


Thanks.


----------



## funlvr1965

Scott try the GRX-3104 4 zones this is the unit I have and what I found for Brian, does everything I want and has none of the extras I don't need, give me a call if you have any additional questions.


Wayne


----------



## GetGray

Know if it will do LV control? Does it have a IR input (wired)?


----------



## funlvr1965




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GetGray* /forum/post/16408156
> 
> 
> Know if it will do LV control? Does it have a IR input (wired)?



Mine has a low voltage control switch attached, it is located at the top of the stairs so I can turn on the lights in the theater before going down. From what I remember it does not have a ir input, mine has the emitter coming out of the wall just beneath it and stuck to the face over the ir receiver, easy enough.


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## DMF

Correct. The pre-QS series had no wired IR input, though they did (do) have external IR pickup accessories that wire into the data bus.


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## GetGray

I called Lutron and had a couple chats with their Tech support / sales folks. My description of those conversations is they are really "up" on the RadioRA line vs Graphic Eye. I tried to steer the selection to Graphic Eye, but we seemed to keep ending back on RadioRA. They never brought up the QS line. The tech guy was big on the advantages of R-RA. Something about a better ability to deal with individual zones from a keypad. But honestly I didn't grasp what he was getting at. I will say that I threw in that I plan to use a URC MSC-400 into the mix. With that I get some programmable intelligence which I think might substitute some GE functionality. I've got an appointment to meet with the local Lutron Rep tomorrow. Maybe she can explain better.


----------



## gobrigavitch

I have read through the first 10 pgs of this thread and I still have a couple of questions. I see there are some good deals on 3104 + 3106 systems on fleabay. How has the experience been buying these off of ebay. All of the units on there seem to be white bottom and translucent top. Is it practical to change them to a black bottom with translucent top?


The savings on ebay are quite signicant compared to even discount retail. I really don't want a white one though


Thanks for any help.

Sorry if this was already covered elsewhere


----------



## HDvids4all

I was in the same boat as you gobrigavitch...all the auction sites were selling white GE models, and I wanted a black faceplate. I was able to get a NIB 4 zone GE from an auction for less than a 1/4 of what the full retail price would have been. I found a pretty decent site that sells any kind of replacement faceplate you want for roughly $50:

http://www.electricsuppliesonline.com/ 


Even adding in the cost of a new faceplate (which is pretty expensive for a piece of plastic that probably costs 5 cents to manufacture), I still came in way under cost. Without going this route, I never would have been able to afford the GE.


Hope this helps!


----------



## GetGray

OK, I met with the rep. Lots of information, and eye candy, too










My initial take on her input was this:


GE 3000 series - 16 zones including keypads. Interface req'd to do IR into back of unit. 3500 can be programmed via PC and RS232.


GE QS series - newer, + aesthetics, some added functionality (shades).


Radio RA-SR - new single room version of Radio-RA. Apparently you have the ability to control 16 scenes via rs-232, AND independently program a different button behavior on an individual dimmer for the zone it controls. Would be good for my 3 entryways. No hardwiring needed, these talk to each other wirelessly. Good for retrofit, and easier to install it sounds like. Required control unit and control unit can be controlled via RS232 or IP, but NOT IR. RA-SR can have 10 devices including dimmers and keypads max. 30' limitation between devices, but she claims that is very conservative. I have not priced differences, but I must say wireless is attractive. And I can do the RS232 control via my URC remote and it's MSC-400.


Anyone know the cons to the Radio RA-SR vs. the GE?


The only thing I could think of so far is I understand the GE can be "locked" so the kids don't accidentallly screw up a scene, but I'm not sure about RA-SR. Apparently the programming sequence is obfuscated enough it won't happen accidentally. Not sure if this is an issue or not.


----------



## DMF

$$ ?


Seems to me that only real difference (besides RF v. IR) is that the wallstations don't need the data cable. If that's true, how do they get their power?


----------



## GetGray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/16474011
> 
> 
> $$ ?
> 
> 
> Seems to me that only real difference (besides RF v. IR) is that the wallstations don't need the data cable. If that's true, how do they get their power?



I have a "stater kit" scheduled for delivery on Monday. Hopefully during the week I can assemble a little "test" setup to learn about it in more detail. I'll post more then or start a dedicated thread. I think the started kit retails for about $1000, it included 4 dimmers, 1 5-button control, and the RS232/Ethernet addressable control. As I understand it the button units get wired with normal wiring for a power source. It seems surprising that they chose to leave IR off the menu, but as I used to make a IR to RS232 "converter" it would be trivial to add that accessory to to the mix for those who didn't have a MSC-400 or RS232 and wanted to use the RadioRA-SR. I'm learning fast, stay tuned...


----------



## Nightbreed

This may have been spoken about before but i couldn't find much about it. I bought a star ceiling kit from Star-Ceiling Designer . I'm also about to buy some RGB LED strip lighting . I'm going to be using a 6 zone GRAFIK Eye controler. Is there any way i can get the GRAFIK Eye to control each of these in zones?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GetGray* /forum/post/16475504
> 
> 
> I think the started kit retails for about $1000, it included 4 dimmers, 1 5-button control, and the RS232/Ethernet addressable control.



Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities. (The old one AV-RS232(?) was practically worthless...)


----------



## starbuckcat

I just purchased a used 3106 and I hooked up load 1 & 2 with power going to the GE. Strange things are happening. If I dim up any load manually on the GE 1-6 then both 1&2 power up 100% regardless of which zone I hit up. Neither field will dim at all and I have checked the load select and made sure they were set for incandescent lighting. I don't want to yell at this guy yet until I make sure there is not user error on my end.


I did wire a dedicated ciruit to the panel for my GE, and I have verified I have my "hot wire" going to the hot/live and all my whites tied together and one going to my neutral and then just my blacks going to load 1 and load 2 respectively.


Any ideas or did I get a bad deal?


Thanks,


----------



## DMF

Sounds to me like the unit already had some programming done on it. There is an option to bypass dimming on each zone and if it receives any non-zero level command it comes on full.


How are you programming the unit? There is a 'Reset to Factory Default' command, but I don't know what it would be (or if it's available) from the front panel.


----------



## GetGray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/16566737
> 
> 
> Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities. (The old one AV-RS232(?) was practically worthless...)



Sorry, missed this post. I'll round up those part numbers and post. So far my "test bed" setup works pretty well. There are some limitations but some advantages, too.


Hey... I made the "AV-RS232" and it worked flawlessly. We mainly made it to deal with the lack of discretes on some projectors. It was an IR to RS232 converter, probably not the think you meant?


----------



## DMF

I was confusing the GRX-AV and the GRX-RS232 (now superceded). The -RS232 allowed a limited amount of programming for the 3000 series (not 3500). GRX-PRG was much more useful.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starbuckcat* /forum/post/16631579
> 
> 
> I just purchased a used 3106 and I hooked up load 1 & 2 with power going to the GE. Strange things are happening.



The non-dim option and the Incandescent zone setting are mutually exclusive, so prior programming is probably not the issue.


Look at problem 3 in Appendix 3 - Troubleshooting - of your Installation Guide. It looks like a bad Triac. In other words, the unit is likely bad.


----------



## GetGray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/16566737
> 
> 
> Please post the model numbers. I'm particularly interested in the RS232/EtherNet unit capabilities.



Part nos

SRD-W5BRL 5 button controller

SR-NWK-E RS232/TCPIP inetrface controller

SRD-6D dimmer


----------



## starbuckcat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/16642556
> 
> 
> The non-dim option and the Incandescent zone setting are mutually exclusive, so prior programming is probably not the issue.
> 
> 
> Look at problem 3 in Appendix 3 - Troubleshooting - of your Installation Guide. It looks like a bad Triac. In other words, the unit is likely bad.




Thanks....I don't like to hear this, but it sounds like this is the case.


----------



## DMF

There is something of a grey market in control units. Architects usually order more for a commercial building than they need, or a change order leaves some unneeded. These get sold on eBay. In my experience, Lutron will generally honor the warranty on an older but unused unit.


I don't know about your particulars, but if the seller (or can't) doesn't make good, try contacting Lutron.


----------



## starbuckcat

Ok, now I am fixing my mess with my bad 3106 and looking at getting a QSG model. My question is since my GE will be at the back of the room as I enter my HT, is there a way to wire an IR receiver to the front of the room and connect it to the QSG "hardwired"? I currently am using a Logitech 880 and I know I can get a Lutron switch with IR, but was hoping to save a couple bucks and I don't need another switch at the front of the HT. So I might sound stupid, but is there IR reciever that I can hook up to CAT5 or PELV wire and connect it to the back of the QSG? I see the options out there to convert IR to RF, but I really don't need more gadgets to upset my wife.


Thanks again for any help!


----------



## cinemascope

I thought we did a QS primer somewhere in the middle of this mess??


Should we build a NEW thread for QS series GRX??


If so, this one should be re-titled as the definitive 3100/3500 (MR/IA) GRX thread...


----------



## cinemascope

Also, I am selling my *never installed* 6 zone QS cheap in the classifieds... $450.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starbuckcat* /forum/post/16651858
> 
> 
> Ok, now I am fixing my mess with my bad 3106 and looking at getting a QSG model. My question is since my GE will be at the back of the room as I enter my HT, is there a way to wire an IR receiver to the front of the room and connect it to the QSG "hardwired"? I currently am using a Logitech 880 and I know I can get a Lutron switch with IR, but was hoping to save a couple bucks and I don't need another switch at the front of the HT. So I might sound stupid, but is there IR reciever that I can hook up to CAT5 or PELV wire and connect it to the back of the QSG? I see the options out there to convert IR to RF, but I really don't need more gadgets to upset my wife.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for any help!



The new QS line has an IR port in the back of the unit. You are able to wire it up with an IR receiver and emitter, but I believe you will still need a block in between to add power. If you have and IR network already you would be able to go off that with one of the emitters.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/16652841
> 
> 
> The new QS line has an IR port in the back of the unit. You are able to wire it up with an IR receiver and emitter, but I believe you will still need a block in between to add power. If you have and IR network already you would be able to go off that with one of the emitters.



A connecting block is to add phantom power to the IR receiver, and to facilitate multiple emitter ports.


If you already have an IR repeater system (Xantach, Niles, etc.) or are using a remote base station with IR out (Universal, Harmony, RTI, etc.), just go straight out and tie directly to a 600v rated wire fed into the box.


----------



## cinemascope

Lutron announced a new enclosure mounted QS-Series GrafikEye at InfoComm this week.


It is like a tiny little HomeWorks system in an enclosure, and is intended for board rooms and other small commercial applications.


It is also PERFECT for custom upscale theaters and media rooms where the homeowner does not want to put lighting in the entire home at that time.

(although it can be tied into a whole-house lighting just as nearly any GRX system can)


I haven't seen pricing yet, but this is a definite winner, folks.


----------



## DMF

Hey, that's pretty cool. It would have been great in my room where the GE essentially doubles as a wall station. I could have put it in the attic with the accessories and set a wall station into the old box. Wouldn't have even had to open the wall.


Lutron seems to have accelerated their R&D. Do you have a feel for whether there is an increase in demand for HT conversions in parallel with the demand for big TVs?


----------



## cinemascope

Te GrafikEye is still first and foremost a commercial device.... even these new iterations.


Home theater is just an excellent use of an existing product, after all a board room and a media room/HT have many similarities.


- video and/or overhead/slide projectors

- low light for presentations (or movies)

- task lighting for certain areas

- physical light control of drapes/blinds....


Oh, and the QS _absolutely_ rules over the 3100/3500


----------



## starbuckcat

Anyone have 35-40 feet of PELV wire that would like to sell? PM


----------



## huntrm

Got a question - need some advice. I own a GE 3104, and have an IR transmitter wired to the front of the unit. However, as pointed out on the first page of this thread, a bulge will show up when you try to put the cover on.


I've gone over the options in this thread, and not sure they'll work for me because my IR transmitted is slightly larger than the ones recommended. I see two options:


1) Use a dremel on my IR transmitter, try to whittle down as much as possible on it (get it close to the size of a Xantech IR transmitter)


2) Remove the small, round IR receiver plastic cover on the GE. Then, insert my transmitter in the cover hole and the hole of the IR receiver.


Can option #2 even be done? How do I remove this small piece of plastic (pliers)? Anyone done it?


----------



## huntrm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *huntrm* /forum/post/16778375
> 
> 
> Got a question - need some advice. I own a GE 3104, and have an IR transmitter wired to the front of the unit. However, as pointed out on the first page of this thread, a bulge will show up when you try to put the cover on.
> 
> 
> I've gone over the options in this thread, and not sure they'll work for me because my IR transmitted is slightly larger than the ones recommended. I see two options:
> 
> 
> 1) Use a dremel on my IR transmitter, try to whittle down as much as possible on it (get it close to the size of a Xantech IR transmitter)
> 
> 
> 2) Remove the small, round IR receiver plastic cover on the GE. Then, insert my transmitter in the cover hole and the hole of the IR receiver.
> 
> 
> Can option #2 even be done? How do I remove this small piece of plastic (pliers)? Anyone done it?



I ended up using a dremel with a VERY light cylindrical sanding accessory, and ended up grinding a small hole to the left of the IR. I didn't go all the way through the plastic. I also sanded down the IR itself, made it work.


The cover now goes on almost 100% perfectly.


----------



## Jailguy

I just picked up a 6-zone QS and I'm doing all my wiring. The two "ports" in the back say "IR Data" & "IR Com". How do I hook the QS to the IR repeater?


----------



## DMF

Did you read the installation instruction booklet?


----------



## Jailguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/16896425
> 
> 
> Did you read the installation instruction booklet?



Yes, it doesn't really get specific with anything dealing with IR. I think I may have figured it out, but I'd be interested in what everyone else did?


On a side note, does anyone know where I can get replacement covers for my QS. I can't only find covers for the older models.


----------



## DMF

I don't have specifics about the IR - I've never installed a QS.


For covers, call Lutron support. They're undoubtedly available. IIRC, they're about $150, depending on the finish you want.


----------



## Coopsav

Jailguy, I did an IR on my set up if I remember when i get I'll post the wiring for you.


----------



## Warren_G

I went to a local supplier of electronic parts and was able to get a handful of 3mm IR emitters for 75 cents each. You would need to do a little soldering, but its not difficult. These would fit in without a bulge, although I am mounting mine in the back of seat that is right in front of the GE on the wall. What I need to find now is a programming manual for my Grafik Eye, as I would like to use some of the extended scenes. I have scenes 1-5 set up for movie viewing, TV viewing, full on, full off, etc. What I would like to do is access more scenes that I can set to the same levels, but have different dim times, so that if I bring the house lights up for an intermission macro, it will go back to the movie viewing level without taking the full minute I have set on Scene 4.


----------



## oman321

Warren G,


If you are using a Harmony remote they have the 16 scenes available as part of the database. They don't call them scenes, I think they call them light 1 light 2 or something like that. Anyways you can select i.e. scene 8 and then manually adjust the GE (I know you may know this already, for the benefit of others) to what setting you want and it will remember that as scene 8.


Even if you don't have a Harmony you can get one pretty cheaply to be able to teach your remote the commands after you download them from the database.


----------



## Coopsav

Jailguy, did you purchase your IR repeater from Lutron? as that's what I did so I may not help. My GRX-CIR wired up with 4 wires like any of their wallstations.


----------



## raZorTT

Has anyone hooked up an occupancy sensor to their QS?


I was wondering if you had to buy the lutron sensor or if other sensors would work?


Cheers,

Simon


----------



## DMF

Warren_G, there is a document for the extended command set on the Lutron site. I can't point to it right now, but if you can't find it call Lutron support and they can point you to it.


----------



## Warren_G

I never even thought of just using the 16 settings available on the harmony and then setting the levels on the GE directly. Its so simple, its brilliant. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## oman321

Warren,


How did you make out. Get it resolved?


----------



## raZorTT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raZorTT* /forum/post/16985522
> 
> 
> Has anyone hooked up an occupancy sensor to their QS?
> 
> 
> I was wondering if you had to buy the lutron sensor or if other sensors would work?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Simon



Anyone hooked up a sensor to their GE?


Simon


----------



## Warren_G

I got it resolved and it works like a charm. I embedded one of the 3mm IR emitters in the back of one of my theater seats, and it controls the GE exactly as I had hoped.

You can see the IR eye as the small dot in the middle of the seat here:


----------



## DMF

Cool solution!


----------



## family_man

I have a question on dimming. I am looking at the 3104 and I have a zone that is only going to be two recessed lights. I am planning on using MR16 capable recessed lights. If I use two 20w MR16 lights it will hit the grafik eye's 40W minimum per circuit. But in that case, where the dim control still work well since its so close to the minimum? I didn't know if the grafik eye needed a minimum because it can't reduce its output much more than the 40W. Thoughts? Experiences?


----------



## frank1940




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *family_man* /forum/post/17190588
> 
> 
> I have a question on dimming. I am looking at the 3104 and I have a zone that is only going to be two recessed lights. I am planning on using MR16 capable recessed lights. If I use two 20w MR16 lights it will hit the grafik eye's 40W minimum per circuit. But in that case, where the dim control still work well since its so close to the minimum? I didn't know if the grafik eye needed a minimum because it can't reduce its output much more than the 40W. Thoughts? Experiences?



Since no one has responded to your question, I thought I would do so even though I don't have an answer for you.


What I would do in your situation is call Lutron US product support directly at 1-800-523-9466 and get the answer from the horse's mouth.


----------



## DMF

I'm pretty sure the zone minimum is 25W rather than 40W.


In either case, the unit will have no problem with your application.


----------



## family_man

Frank1940, DMF,


Thanks for the reply. After I posted I did call up the support line, and they said that if you fall below the minimum, the problem is that the lights might flicker and that the zone lights may glow even when fully off.


I do have a second question after reading this thread. I have want to use an RF remote and as I understand I can either run an emitter to the front of the Grafik Eye or connect GRX-IRI.


If I run the emitter to the front, I can't use CAT5 inside the box because its a fire risk (unless possibly if I wrap in electrical tape) so are those who are running the emitter to the front running it outside the gang box? Or is it possible to use a MUX wire through the box as an extension for the emitter on the front of the Grafik Eye. Does anyone know of pictures of how exactly they placed and extension wire through the wall and onto the front of the Grafik Eye?


All help appreciated.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/5864440
> 
> 
> [*] Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.



This may not be true, unless you're running metal conduit all the way to the metal box from the breaker box, where the metal conduit and box would therefore be grounded. If you're running romex to the metal box, the box isn't grounded and therefore I would assume have less ability to block EMI.


Also, what about the Grafik Eye itself? What shielding does it have? You could have the box nicely shielded, but then the front of the Grafik Eye is spewing EMI all over the place.


Anyone have trouble with the Grafik Eye affecting their system? I'd like to know, because I'm starting to run wires now and can run THHN and metal conduit to the Grafik Eye, if that's necessary. I am running THHN and metal conduit to my system's electrical outlets, and I'm going to use an isolated ground system there. So, that should help to protect me somewhat, but if I'm going to run conduit, I might be able to run another set of conduit if necessary (but I'd rather run romex).


Finally, how did you sound proof this box? (Or did you?)


----------



## family_man




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/5859088
> 
> 
> Here are some of the other threads that had various info regarding the Grafik Eye:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...64#post5859064
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551838
> 
> 
> The thread where members Bpape and Toxarch details the installation of an IR emitter, including a nice photo by Toxarch.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=grafik+eye




I noticed that the links referenced above are now dead. Does anyone have the pictures referenced above about the installation of an IR emitter? I would like to see the work Bpape and Toxarch have done before


----------



## wo_riley

Does anyone know what's the deal with the new Grafik Eye QS Wireless? What protocol does the wireless use? Will it work with devices like the iTouch? Is there a price premium such that it would be easier to work with a standard QS with another wireless interface?


----------



## eskay




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *family_man* /forum/post/17270755
> 
> 
> I noticed that the links referenced above are now dead. Does anyone have the pictures referenced above about the installation of an IR emitter? I would like to see the work Bpape and Toxarch have done before



The threads are in archive. When you get the screen that it can't find the thread, click on the link to the 01/05-06/06 archives.


----------



## NM_Toronto

Any comments on this product by Progress Lighting.

http://www.lightingdirect.com/progre...=shtca_1058208 


Is it a rebranded Lutron product? Price is really cheap.


Any ideas what series it is based on the picture/description


Thanks in advance.


----------



## Crash11




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NM_Toronto* /forum/post/17317189
> 
> 
> Any comments on this product by Progress Lighting.
> 
> http://www.lightingdirect.com/progre...=shtca_1058208
> 
> 
> Is it a rebranded Lutron product? Price is really cheap.
> 
> 
> Any ideas what series it is based on the picture/description
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Check this page here:

http://www.lightingdirect.com/index....ryid=15004&p=5 


It's indeed a Lutron product.


----------



## ctviggen

Does the Lutron NTGRX-1S entrance control contain a ground? The PDF for this lists only two wires are necessary for the 3000 series Grafik Eyes, but I'm going to run 14/2 or 12/2 romex with ground to the entrance control. Or do I have to purchase 14/2 or 12/2 romex without ground?


(I'll have my entrance control this week, so I can see the device, but I'm thinking of running wires today.)


----------



## CSO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/17334938
> 
> 
> Does the Lutron NTGRX-1S entrance control contain a ground? The PDF for this lists only two wires are necessary for the 3000 series Grafik Eyes, but I'm going to run 14/2 or 12/2 romex with ground to the entrance control. Or do I have to purchase 14/2 or 12/2 romex without ground?
> 
> 
> (I'll have my entrance control this week, so I can see the device, but I'm thinking of running wires today.)



In modern times, there really isn't Romex without ground, so if the NTGRX-1S doesn't have a grounding screw, then connect the ground wire to your metal box. If you don't have a metal box, then leave the ground wire floating at the NTGRX-1S. Don't cut the unused ground wire off. Just fold it back neatly. Be sure to connect all ground wires together at the box where your Grafik Eye is located.


To answer your question, as long as you are in a jurisdiction that does not require conduit/EMT use 14/2 w/ ground or 12/2 w/ ground.


----------



## kjlewie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/17334938
> 
> 
> Does the Lutron NTGRX-1S entrance control contain a ground? The PDF for this lists only two wires are necessary for the 3000 series Grafik Eyes, but I'm going to run 14/2 or 12/2 romex with ground to the entrance control. Or do I have to purchase 14/2 or 12/2 romex without ground?
> 
> 
> (I'll have my entrance control this week, so I can see the device, but I'm thinking of running wires today.)



Initially, I prewired my 5-button entrance control with romex but replaced it with the PELV wiring suggested for connecting the control to the GE. But, I have a QS - not sure if the wiring is different vs the 3000 series.


----------



## VR6_MTL

*NTGRX-1S*: I'm using a 14-2 from my 3604 to my NTGRX-1S .. you ground both end to the metal box .


and 1 ground from the box to the NTGRX-1S


it's working perfectly.


----------



## ctviggen

Thanks. It turned out that I wasn't able to run wires last weekend, but may do so this weekend (and I should have the NTGRX-1S sometime this week).


As for the metal box and cover (on the first page of this thread) for the Grafik Eye, I ordered this online, and I have to say the quality of this box is amazing relative to what the big box stores sell.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kjlewie* /forum/post/17339734
> 
> 
> Initially, I prewired my 5-button entrance control with romex but replaced it with the PELV wiring suggested for connecting the control to the GE. But, I have a QS - not sure if the wiring is different vs the 3000 series.



If you are using the same 5 button entrance control it will still be PELV wire.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/17334938
> 
> 
> Does the Lutron NTGRX-1S entrance control contain a ground? The PDF for this lists only two wires are necessary for the 3000 series Grafik Eyes, but I'm going to run 14/2 or 12/2 romex with ground to the entrance control. Or do I have to purchase 14/2 or 12/2 romex without ground?
> 
> 
> (I'll have my entrance control this week, so I can see the device, but I'm thinking of running wires today.)



I received mine and it does have a ground. I also realize you can put it on the load side, although I'll still put it on the line side (can't see any benefit to putting it on the load side -- you still have to run cable to the Grafik Eye).


----------



## WannaTheater

To the Grafik Eye experts-

I am getting ready to purchase a GRX-3106, but it looks like there are different versions. For example, some I see are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-WH(120v), where others are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-CE-WH(230v). Then I see one listed on beverlyhillselectric that states "System Required Interface at 230V," but has 120V listed in a specifficationons table.


So for living in the US, which one would be approipriate?


Thanks!


----------



## raZorTT

Sorry if this has been answered before, I have tried to search but came up with nothing.


I have a 6 zone QS that I am looking to install in my HT. I have a couple zones that will be low voltage downlights. I've read the instruction booklet and it says MLV transformers work fine, but ELV require an interface.


However I had an ELV hooked up to one zone and the load type was set to the default (incandescent) and the GE was able to successfully dim the light without any issue.


The ELV itself is a dimmable transformer, so maybe it's doing the work of the interface? Is there any danger to leaving the load type as incandescent and using the dimmable ELV?


Appreciate any advice.


Cheers,

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Also, is the GE QS a trailing edge or a leading edge dimmer?


Cheers,

Simon


----------



## JeffC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/17370798
> 
> 
> To the Grafik Eye experts-
> 
> I am getting ready to purchase a GRX-3106, but it looks like there are different versions. For example, some I see are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-WH(120v), where others are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-CE-WH(230v). Then I see one listed on beverlyhillselectric that states "System Required Interface at 230V," but has 120V listed in a specifficationons table.
> 
> 
> So for living in the US, which one would be approipriate?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The 120v is what you need.

Cheers


----------



## BillW




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raZorTT* /forum/post/17402280
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered before, I have tried to search but came up with nothing.
> 
> 
> I have a 6 zone QS that I am looking to install in my HT. I have a couple zones that will be low voltage downlights. I've read the instruction booklet and it says MLV transformers work fine, but ELV require an interface.
> 
> 
> However I had an ELV hooked up to one zone and the load type was set to the default (incandescent) and the GE was able to successfully dim the light without any issue.
> 
> 
> The ELV itself is a dimmable transformer, so maybe it's doing the work of the interface? Is there any danger to leaving the load type as incandescent and using the dimmable ELV?
> 
> 
> Appreciate any advice.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Simon



Some of the newer ELV transformers will dim with standard incadescent dimmers, maybe that is the case with your recessed. The only way I would leave it connected without the Lutron ELVI is after a call the manufacture of your recessed lights to confirm this.

I don't know what a deading edge or trailing edge dimmer is - as a guess does it refer to when the dimmers is affecting the sine wave?


Bill


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BillW* /forum/post/17404541
> 
> 
> Some of the newer ELV transformers will dim with standard incadescent dimmers, maybe that is the case with your recessed. The only way I would leave it connected without the Lutron ELVI is after a call the manufacture of your recessed lights to confirm this.
> 
> I don't know what a deading edge or trailing edge dimmer is - as a guess does it refer to when the dimmers is affecting the sine wave?



So by it simply appearing to work 'okay', doesn't mean to say it really is working properly, and not causing some harm to the 3106.... or am I looking at this the wrong way, and that the only 'harm' is to the ELV transformer and how it works the light ??


----------



## Peter Nielsen

Is the GraphicRA/RA-RS232 combo limited just like the GraphicEye/GRX-232 in that you can only select scenes and not set dimming levels directly?


Will the RA-RS232 let me set dimming levels, or is that *only* doable through the GRX-PRG?


----------



## symneter

I am working on a friends system. They have an Intellicontrol remote running a Niles IR block. The Niles has gone bad and we are simply switching over to a Harmony 1000 w/ RF extender I had laying around. The Niles was running a GE GRX-MR-6 4 level dimmer. Can I simply take the emitter cable leading to the dimmer and plug it into the Harmony extender and control it that way. I have tried it already with no luck and want to make sure that I am not wasting my time going in this direction.



Symneter


----------



## oman321

If your are attaching the emitter from the 1000's base station to the front of the GE and you are sending it as an RF signal from the remote which would then cause the base station to flash the emitter it should work.


The GE receives IR commands, be sure your placing it on the right spot little white circle on the lower part to the right of the unit.


If this doesn't work than try switching the GE to an IR instead of an RF device and see if you are able to control it right from the remote with no emitter attached. If this doesn't work maybe somethng is wrong with the GE.


----------



## symneter

I greatly appreciate your response as I have little time to work on this (visiting out of state). Just to clarify, I am not using a repeater per se, but an RF extender designed for Harmony remotes that can do RF. This system was originally professionally installed and I found a cable at the back of the rack labelled Grafik I that has an 1/8 jack that was plugged into the Intellicontrol system. I am unable to trace as it runs behind the wall, but believe that it is an emmiter cable (since all the others were) running directly to the dimmer. Thus, if it is an IR cable, it is behind the dimmer. I am trying not to dismantle the dimmer at this point to find out.


----------



## oman321

In essence the RF extender for the Harmony is a repeater. If this 1/8 jack was being used before with the previous system (it was being used to send an IR signal) then it should work with the Harmony extender because that converts the RF to an IR signal. You have to be sure that the Harmony is set up to send the commands for the GE as RF instead of IR so that the base will transmit IR when it receives the RF signal.


----------



## Peter Nielsen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Nielsen* /forum/post/17556454
> 
> 
> Is the GraphicRA/RA-RS232 combo limited just like the GraphicEye/GRX-232 in that you can only select scenes and not set dimming levels directly?
> 
> 
> Will the RA-RS232 let me set dimming levels, or is that *only* doable through the GRX-PRG?




Hmm... Not even Lutron seems to know the answer... or at least it's taking them a long time to dig it up...


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *family_man* /forum/post/17216142
> 
> 
> If I run the emitter to the front, I can't use CAT5 inside the box because its a fire risk (unless possibly if I wrap in electrical tape) so are those who are running the emitter to the front running it outside the gang box? Or is it possible to use a MUX wire through the box as an extension for the emitter on the front of the Grafik Eye. Does anyone know of pictures of how exactly they placed and extension wire through the wall and onto the front of the Grafik Eye?



Run it outside the box. Why would you bring it into the box just to take it out again?


I think there is a pic in this thread, but perhaps not. I haven't done an emitter this way so can't be of much help.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/17254026
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Triac-based dimmers can pump out a lot of EMI (electro-magnetic interference); a metal box blocks EMI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This may not be true, unless you're running metal conduit all the way to the metal box from the breaker box, where the metal conduit and box would therefore be grounded. *If you're running romex to the metal box, the box isn't grounded* and therefore I would assume have less ability to block EMI.
Click to expand...


It _is_ grounded - if you install it correctly. A metal box must be tied to the ground wire, whether you're using conduit or not. Ever notice that little green screw?



> Quote:
> Also, what about the Grafik Eye itself? What shielding does it have? You could have the box nicely shielded, but then the front of the Grafik Eye is spewing EMI all over the place.



Hard to say since I've never dissected one.



> Quote:
> Anyone have trouble with the Grafik Eye affecting their system? I'd like to know, because I'm starting to run wires now and can run THHN and metal conduit to the Grafik Eye, if that's necessary. I am running THHN and metal conduit to my system's electrical outlets, and I'm going to use an isolated ground system there.



You need to talk to an electrician. You do not want an isolated ground circuit here. And you are mistakenly assuming that metal conduit should be the primary ground path.



> Quote:
> Finally, how did you sound proof this box? (Or did you?)



Not sure I follow you. How does one soundproof an electrical box?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *family_man* /forum/post/17270755
> 
> 
> I noticed that the links referenced above are now dead. Does anyone have the pictures referenced above about the installation of an IR emitter? I would like to see the work Bpape and Toxarch have done before



Those threads have apparently been moved the the archive. Try searching there.


(I doubt they retain the same thread number, but you could try it via URL surgery...)


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/17370798
> 
> 
> To the Grafik Eye experts-
> 
> I am getting ready to purchase a GRX-3106, but it looks like there are different versions. For example, some I see are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-WH(120v), where others are listed as Grafik Eye GRX-3106-T-CE-WH(230v). Then I see one listed on beverlyhillselectric that states "System Required Interface at 230V," but has 120V listed in a specifficationons table.
> 
> 
> So for living in the US, which one would be approipriate?



GRX-3106-T-WH (the -T-WH in both refers to the cover plate colors)



The -CE code means it's for European power (230V 50 Hz).


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raZorTT* /forum/post/17402280
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been answered before, I have tried to search but came up with nothing.
> 
> 
> I have a 6 zone QS that I am looking to install in my HT. I have a couple zones that will be low voltage downlights. I've read the instruction booklet and it says MLV transformers work fine, but ELV require an interface.
> 
> 
> However I had an ELV hooked up to one zone and the load type was set to the default (incandescent) and the GE was able to successfully dim the light without any issue.
> 
> 
> The ELV itself is a dimmable transformer, so maybe it's doing the work of the interface? Is there any danger to leaving the load type as incandescent and using the dimmable ELV?



ELVs - essentially switching power supplies like in computers - generally aren't designed to work with the low voltage (and waveform?) that the GE provides. Yours might work for a while then blow up.


In general, don't second-guess Lutron's specifications.




> Quote:
> and that the only 'harm' is to the ELV transformer and how it works the light ??



ELV isn't a transformer - that's MLV. ELV may have a transformer in it, but that's not what's controlling the output voltage.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Peter Nielsen* /forum/post/17556454
> 
> 
> Is the GraphicRA/RA-RS232 combo limited just like the GraphicEye/GRX-232 in that you can only select scenes and not set dimming levels directly?
> 
> 
> Will the RA-RS232 let me set dimming levels, or is that *only* doable through the GRX-PRG?



Well, RadioRA is identical to the 3500 series, so the only open question is whether RA-RS232 is equivalent to GRX-232. I rather suspect that it is. If so, the answer is, "No".


Is this a new installation? Note that there has been some advancement in the area since I wrote about it earlier in this thread. There are alternatives to GRX-PRG.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17597601
> 
> 
> It _is_ grounded - if you install it correctly. A metal box must be tied to the ground wire, whether you're using conduit or not. Ever notice that little green screw?
> 
> 
> Not true. EMT conduit is a approved grounded raceway unless your town or city calls for an additional grounding conductor, which is rare.
> 
> 
> Hard to say since I've never dissected one.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to talk to an electrician. You do not want an isolated ground circuit here. And you are mistakenly assuming that metal conduit should be the primary ground path.
> 
> 
> Why can't you install a isolated circuit here? The conduit is a primary ground path.
> 
> 
> Not sure I follow you. How does one soundproof an electrical box?



There are sound proof pads (almost like 1/4 in. sheets of clay) that you can purchase from any electrical supply house (not Home Depot or the others).


How do I know this? I am an electrician (IBEW 134 Chicago) and I have installed grafik eye systems as well as others before these were even offered to the everyday consumer.


----------



## DMF

Sounds like Dynamat. But the real question I have is, _why_? The box doesn't fully penetrate the wall, so sound entering the box has nowhere to go.



Except maybe up the conduit?


----------



## ducktape

Can't answer as to why because I'm not an engineer, all I know is we use these pads for 2 reasons, mostly in condo situations, but one is for fire and the other sound. And conduit is an approved grounding source. Conduit, other than using it as a conductor raceway, is also our source of grounding. My question is why can't you run an isolated circuit for the Grafik Eye? There is nothing wrong with that at all, and I would recommend it as to reduce and unwanted power fluctuation that may/can affect the lighting.


----------



## sebberry

Quick question:


I am going to be redoing my kitchen soon and am thinking of lighting. Track or rail light for the ceiling, under-cabinet task lighting and toekick lights to illuminate the floor.


I originally thought of low-voltage lighting but then there's the issue of the expensive transformers, placement, etc...


What's everyone's thoughts on running *line* voltage to these lights and pulling them all back to a Grafik Eye? I wasn't originally planning on this but since the kitchen will be bare to the walls, why not?


Thanks


----------



## CSO

The fixture(s) and bulb(s) dictate the voltage requirements. If your lighting needs can be met with all line level fixtures, then go for it. My suspicion is that you will have a mixture of line and low voltage devices.


Choose your fixtures first. Then decide about what your needs are from a Grafik Eye controller.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17602446
> 
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> 
> I am going to be redoing my kitchen soon and am thinking of lighting. Track or rail light for the ceiling, under-cabinet task lighting and toekick lights to illuminate the floor.
> 
> 
> I originally thought of low-voltage lighting but then there's the issue of the expensive transformers, placement, etc...
> 
> 
> What's everyone's thoughts on running *line* voltage to these lights and pulling them all back to a Grafik Eye? I wasn't originally planning on this but since the kitchen will be bare to the walls, why not?
> 
> 
> Thanks



I PM'd you....


----------



## sebberry

One more quick question.


I'm not familiar with household wiring. Is the wiring any different for a Grafik Eye than regular dimmers?


ie, if I run my wires back from the lights to the wall box, can I use regular dimmers for now and simply swap the Grafik Eye in later or would that require running wires differently?


----------



## Robert_S

The electrical wiring is the same for the Grafik Eye and for a regular dimmer. The only difference would be if you want some extra wall switches or other accessories for the Grafik Eye. They all run off low voltage cables.


Robert


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ducktape* /forum/post/17599053
> 
> 
> My question is why can't you run an isolated circuit for the Grafik Eye? There is nothing wrong with that at all, and I would recommend it as to reduce and unwanted power fluctuation that may/can affect the lighting.



Ground surge. A close strike will take out anything on the circuit, assuming it's not on the common ground rod - and then, what's the point?


AFAIK, isolated ground circuits do nothing for power fluctuations. The hot is the same hot, right? That's what fluctuates (or rather, hot to neutral).


Yes, conduit is an approved ground - if the whole circuit is in conduit. (Which is would be in Chicago.) But with HT we're usually talking about using conduit specifically to allow the use of THHN, in which case the conduit is unlikely to be grounded. Therefore the box must be grounded.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17602446
> 
> 
> Quick question:
> 
> 
> I am going to be redoing my kitchen soon and am thinking of lighting. Track or rail light for the ceiling, under-cabinet task lighting and toekick lights to illuminate the floor.
> 
> 
> I originally thought of low-voltage lighting but then there's the issue of the expensive transformers, placement, etc...
> 
> 
> What's everyone's thoughts on running *line* voltage to these lights and pulling them all back to a Grafik Eye? I wasn't originally planning on this but since the kitchen will be bare to the walls, why not?



I don't think you understand what "low voltage" means in relation to lighting. It means the lamps (bulbs) are designed to run on 12V (e.g.) or lower. Yes, a Grafik Eye can put out _lower_ voltage than 120V, but that is not what is required by "low voltage" lamps. A GE cannot replace the power supplies (transformers, et al.) for low voltage lighting.


You would use a GE with your kitchen lighting *only* for dimmability. (is that a word?)


Now, since you want track lights etc., low voltage with a separate transformer is the way to go, IMO. But I wouldn't design this yourself. The average Joe has no idea about all the possibilities with lighting. What you see at Home Depot is a tiny fraction of what is available. Find a dedicated lighting store and take a sketch of what you have in mind.


Remember that each separate dimmable zone will require a different transformer if you go LV, and a different leg (120V) if you go HV. So decide what bits you want to dim separately from others before you go.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17622424
> 
> 
> Ground surge. A close strike will take out anything on the circuit, assuming it's not on the common ground rod - and then, what's the point?
> 
> 
> AFAIK, isolated ground circuits do nothing for power fluctuations. The hot is the same hot, right? That's what fluctuates (or rather, hot to neutral).
> 
> 
> Yes, conduit is an approved ground - if the whole circuit is in conduit. (Which is would be in Chicago.) But with HT we're usually talking about using conduit specifically to allow the use of THHN, in which case the conduit is unlikely to be grounded. Therefore the box must be grounded.



You obviosly do not know what you are talking about. An isolated grounded branch circuit is used to filter out unwanted noise and will help improve the quality of power. It has nothing to do with grounding the system as a preventative measure against a lightning strike. I was merely asking why you can not run an isolated ground for the GE. In order to protect your system from a true power surge I would recommend a in line surge supressor for the entire panel. Altough, no lightning protection system can be relied upon to "contain" or "control" lightning completely (nor thus far, to prevent lightning strikes), but they do seem to help immensely on most occasions of lightning strikes.


Now as a matter of the conduit; Why wouldnt the conduit be grounded if its connected to the main panel and ran to metal boxes for outlets and switches? The panel is earth grounded, the panel is metal, the conduit is metal, and the boxes are metal. For the outlet you can use a self grounding UL listed type and will not need to use a wire from the outlet to the box as it is already grounded.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17622500
> 
> 
> I don't think you understand what "low voltage" means in relation to lighting. It means the lamps (bulbs) are designed to run on 12V (e.g.) or lower. Yes, a Grafik Eye can put out _lower_ voltage than 120V, but that is not what is required by "low voltage" lamps. A GE cannot replace the power supplies (transformers, et al.) for low voltage lighting.
> 
> 
> You would use a GE with your kitchen lighting *only* for dimmability. (is that a word?)
> 
> 
> Now, since you want track lights etc., low voltage with a separate transformer is the way to go, IMO. But I wouldn't design this yourself. The average Joe has no idea about all the possibilities with lighting. What you see at Home Depot is a tiny fraction of what is available. Find a dedicated lighting store and take a sketch of what you have in mind.
> 
> 
> Remember that each separate dimmable zone will require a different transformer if you go LV, and a different leg (120V) if you go HV. So decide what bits you want to dim separately from others before you go.



I dont think you understand what low voltage lighting means! (12v or less????) Sorry, conventional low voltage lighting system transformers come in either 12v or 24v, as well as the bulbs. The bulbs, if bought seperatly, will indicate either 12v or 24v.

I thought it was pretty clear on what the OP was asking, he merely wanted to know everyones opinion on using line voltage fixtures instead of low voltage. He clearly states that he didnt want the expense and the headache of having to figure out where to place the transformers.

Using either a line or low voltage system has nothing to do with the GE. The GE is fed with line voltage and goes out to the load as line voltage. (Load being it either the line voltage light or the transformer in this case.)

Why does the GE have to be dedicated to just the kitchen? If he wanted to use it on, lets say his dining room, he could. All the GE is, essentially, is a switch. Sure it dims lights, has preset lighting modes, and can be controled by a remote, but really, its just a switch. I think too many people on here confuse themselves with all these functions and get all wound up in the control aspects and lose sight of what this device really is, just a fancy means of switching on/off lights.


I do agree that the OP would be best served if he uses a lighting supply house for help with his designs.


----------



## sebberry

Another question if I may:


My current kitchen setup is one ceiling lamp with a switch at either end of the kitchen (Small galley kitchen).


My plan is to eliminate both of the switches, replace the switches at one end with a conventional dimmer and later upgrade to the GE.


Since this is a three way switch setup, is the wiring that comes from the panel to the switches suitable to power the dimmers and the future GE?


I guess the way I am understanding it, regular switches are in-line with the lights, opening and closing the circuit to turn the light off and on. Is the GE essentially an in-series dimmer or does the power come into the GE and the GE distributes the power in the same way an ethernet switch distributes data?


My desires are to have the ceiling light, cabinet light and toekick lights on seperate zones so I can pre-set scenes using a combination of these lights. What I will likely do is put a low-voltage GE switch at the other end of the kitchen so I have access to the light functions from the dining room.


Thanks again

-Mr. Electrically challenged.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17627490
> 
> 
> Another question if I may:
> 
> 
> My current kitchen setup is one ceiling lamp with a switch at either end of the kitchen (Small galley kitchen).





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17627490
> 
> 
> My plan is to eliminate both of the switches, replace the switches at one end with a conventional dimmer and later upgrade to the GE.



You do mean a 3-way dimmer, which they do make.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17627490
> 
> 
> Since this is a three way switch setup, is the wiring that comes from the panel to the switches suitable to power the dimmers and the future GE?



Yes it should be. But if you are, and I think you are, adding more lights (load) to the circuit you might want to make sure you do not overload the circuit.

PM me if you want to know how to check this yourself, there are a few ways this can be done and too lengthy for this post.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17627490
> 
> 
> I guess the way I am understanding it, regular switches are in-line with the lights, opening and closing the circuit to turn the light off and on. Is the GE essentially an in-series dimmer or does the power come into the GE and the GE distributes the power in the same way an ethernet switch distributes data?



Yes it is like a switch and not like an ethernet switch.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17627490
> 
> 
> My desires are to have the ceiling light, cabinet light and toekick lights on seperate zones so I can pre-set scenes using a combination of these lights. What I will likely do is put a low-voltage GE switch at the other end of the kitchen so I have access to the light functions from the dining room.



That should work fine. Again PM and I can give you a few tips on how to do this within code.




Thanks again

-Mr. Electrically challenged.[/quote]


----------



## sebberry

Final question.. I think..


Can a MLV (Magnetic low voltage) transformer be connected directly to the GE in the same way a regular light would be? Using low-voltage lighting would open up some more possibilities for me.


----------



## ducktape




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17634650
> 
> 
> Final question.. I think..
> 
> 
> Can a MLV (Magnetic low voltage) transformer be connected directly to the GE in the same way a regular light would be? Using low-voltage lighting would open up some more possibilities for me.



Yes.


You can goto the first page of this thread and read the OP's (cinemascope) requierments for installing a GE, it should answer all the questions you might have.


----------



## smakovits

Over the weekend I picked up an MX-980 remote. Is it true that the only control option I have for my GE3106 are the 16 scenes and Master raise and lower and all off?


I was hoping for some individual per zone control from the remote but that is not looking like an option. Can someone either confirm or deny my findings, please. If there is some per zone control that would be great, if not, i guess I will set some scenes with varying levels to try and get where I need to be...


----------



## sebberry

I know that in order to dim LED lights with the Grafik Eye, the LED driver must 1)be dimmable in accordance with the ELV1000's specifications and 2) be connected to the ELV1000.


Now, if I configure the GE zone to which my LEDs are connected to be "Non-dim", can the LED transformer/driver be connected directly to the GE? Can I use a non-dimmable LED Driver in this configuration with no ELV1000?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ducktape* /forum/post/17626240
> 
> 
> You obviosly do not know what you are talking about. An isolated grounded branch circuit is used to filter out unwanted noise and will help improve the quality of power. It has nothing to do with grounding the system as a preventative measure against a lightning strike. I was merely asking why you can not run an isolated ground for the GE. In order to protect your system from a true power surge I would recommend a in line surge supressor for the entire panel. Altough, no lightning protection system can be relied upon to "contain" or "control" lightning completely (nor thus far, to prevent lightning strikes), but they do seem to help immensely on most occasions of lightning strikes.



Do you know what ground surge is? It's induced voltage caused by different potential at two different ground stakes. As I said, if the circuits share the same ground stake, this isn't an issue. I was not talking about lightning protection in general. Please read more carefully.


(Btw, a surge protector does not protect against ground surge. Accordingly, the effect is specifically excluded from all the "equipment warranties" that may come with a protector.)




> Quote:
> Why wouldnt the conduit be grounded if its connected to the main panel and ran to metal boxes for outlets and switches?



Allow me to repeat myself. In HT it's common to use metal conduit that doesn't go back to the panel. With a GE it's used specifically for THHN in a two-box installation. The original question was about EMI shielding, and the questioner seemed to assume (as you do?) that ALL metal conduit is grounded. It _should_ be, but not necessarily at the panel.



Now, there's an associated question that hasn't been asked, but maybe it should be mentioned. Two-box install; the upper box (where the NM meets the THHN) is grounded through the NM. You're pulling THHN to the GE (metal box) through EMT (metal conduit). The GE can ground to its box (since the ground path is the EMT). But alternatively one could use a green THHN wire tied to ground at the upper box to ground the GE, leaving no connection to the GE's box ground screw. Or bond the green lead to both the GE and its box. Are all these practices acceptable? Seems to me that they are. (But personally I'd still prefer to see all metal box screws occupied.)
*

*


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ducktape* /forum/post/17626347
> 
> 
> I dont think you understand what low voltage lighting means! (12v or less????) Sorry, conventional low voltage lighting system transformers come in either 12v or 24v, as well as the bulbs. The bulbs, if bought seperatly, will indicate either 12v or 24v.



Well exxccuuuusse me! I forgot to mention 24V. (The "or less" referred to the voltage when the lamp is dimmed.)



> Quote:
> I thought it was pretty clear on what the OP was asking, he merely wanted to know everyones opinion on using line voltage fixtures instead of low voltage.



It wasn't clear to me. I puzzled about it for several minutes. Maybe I did misunderstand, but was my answer wrong? (other than the 24V number)?



> Quote:
> Why does the GE have to be dedicated to just the kitchen?



I didn't say that it should be. I said it should be dedicated to *dimming*.


etc..


Honestly, before you get all torqued up about correcting someone, why don't you be sure that you understand what they wrote? A second reading - and the benefit of the doubt - would have made your last posts unnecessary, to say nothing of the attitude.*

*


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17657297
> 
> 
> I know that in order to dim LED lights with the Grafik Eye, the LED driver must 1)be dimmable in accordance with the ELV1000's specifications and 2) be connected to the ELV1000.
> 
> 
> Now, if I configure the GE zone to which my LEDs are connected to be "Non-dim", can the LED transformer/driver be connected directly to the GE? Can I use a non-dimmable LED Driver in this configuration with no ELV1000?



That's an interesting question. It seems to me that it depends on the internal circuitry of the GE, so the correct people to ask are the Lutron support techs. (Failing a definite answer, I would err on the side of "No".)


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/17639764
> 
> 
> Over the weekend I picked up an MX-980 remote. Is it true that the only control option I have for my GE3106 are the 16 scenes and Master raise and lower and all off?



There are a couple other functions, but nothing of much use. The limitation is the small command set that the 3100 series understands. For the good stuff you need 3500 (or QS).


----------



## smakovits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17658253
> 
> 
> There are a couple other functions, but nothing of much use. The limitation is the small command set that the 3100 series understands. For the good stuff you need 3500 (or QS).



For what, like twice the money.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smakovits* /forum/post/17660310
> 
> 
> For what, like twice the money.



Uh.. no. It's been a few years, but as I recall the 3506 was about $100 more from etailers.


What were you going to pay for a 3106? I trust you're not paying retail.


----------



## misko

I have a GRX-3106 that I'd like to replace with a QS series controller with the clock feature. Since the current GRX controls my outside lights, I want to use the QS clock to set on/off times. My question is, can I just replace the GRX-3106 with a QSG-6P120 and just have it work without replacing any of the other wallstations or control units? Any advice appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## DMF

AFAIK it is directly compatible, both electrically and logically. The physical connections are different, so if your in-box leads are very short that might be an issue.


Note that I'm not sure about compatibility with the NTGRX-1S wallstation (the one that uses the power wiring instead of the data bus), so if you have one of those call Lutron.



Btw, a couple years ago I talked to Lutron about the (then new) QS features and asked about the USB port on the control unit - whether it could be used to program the thing. At that time it couldn't, and you'll notice that the USB port is never mentioned in the literature. You'd need a QS RS232/Ethernet accessory to connect to the PC, and presumably their Liaison software would recognize it. (Of course, all the programming can be done via the front panel, but it tends to be tedious.)


Now I see, on the last page of the QS Design Guide, the following:


> Quote:
> Coming Soon *GRAFIK Eye QS PC programming tool*
> 
> Set up scenes, zones, events, and more right from your
> 
> PC with this easy-to-use software. Transfer the settings
> 
> to and from the unit via USB.



'Bout time! *

*


----------



## sebberry

Providing all combined attached loads are within safe limits, can the GE share the same breaker as my in-floor heat?


Combined load should be no mroe than 9A.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/17712528
> 
> 
> Providing all combined attached loads are within safe limits, can the GE share the same breaker as my in-floor heat?
> 
> 
> Combined load should be no mroe than 9A.



I'm sure you could if they are within load limits.



However, I personally wouldn't do that myself, as I'd keep my lighting on its own circuit, and a in-floor heater on its own separate circuit.


I don't know about the USA, but over here a lighting circuit is normally a 10 amp circuit breaker, and a power circuit 15 amp circuit breakers (or more).


Also, it makes more sense to have circuits 'activity' based, i.e. lights on one circuit, in-floor heater another circuit, bar area another circuit, HT components/AV receiver another circuit.


----------



## sebberry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/17713652
> 
> 
> I'm sure you could if they are within load limits.
> 
> 
> 
> However, I personally wouldn't do that myself, as I'd keep my lighting on its own circuit, and a in-floor heater on its own separate circuit.
> 
> 
> I don't know about the USA, but over here a lighting circuit is normally a 10 amp circuit breaker, and a power circuit 15 amp circuit breakers (or more).
> 
> 
> Also, it makes more sense to have circuits 'activity' based, i.e. lights on one circuit, in-floor heater another circuit, bar area another circuit, HT components/AV receiver another circuit.



I would prefer to keep them seperate too, however my breaker panel is almost full and I still need to install a 240v circuit for my clothes dryer.


----------



## BillW

There is no code issue with doing so, but it must be a small floor you are heating so have such a small laod. Don't forget that resistant heat loads are figured at 125% when caculating circuit size.


----------



## WannaTheater

Perhaps I missed something in this thread, but where can one purchase small amounts of PELV from? Or does it come with the entrance controller (which I haven't yet purchased)?. In a recent call with Lutron, they will only sell 500'


I estimate I need about 25'


Feel free to PM me.


Thanks!


----------



## PaulF

I have pre-wired an AV room for the GE QS. I have 6 zones plus a Savoia shade in the plans. This leaves me with two lights in an adjoining bar area that would not be on the GE. I am trying to find the best way to integrate those extra (dimmable) lights via a remote control.


Lutron says I can use a couple of Spacer system dimmers and dedicate the first scenes to those lights. Then map the GE to use the scenes above. He said the IR/RF receiver would only pass to the GE the scenes that it was programmed to send.


- What happens if the GE IR detector sees the signal, will it also respond? I guess this would not be a problem with an RF remote?


- Can a remote be used to control the up/down dimming on a specific zone (or separate dimmer), or just set it to a pre-programmed scene and off again?


Originally I was thinking about using an RTI remote. I believe they already support pages for Lutron lighting. However I then discovered it's a "pro" remote and I would have to call in integrator each time I want to reprogram it. I would rather not.


- Is there an article/web site/forum area that describes how the remote is integrated with the AV system and lighting? I am still confused about the parts required. For example, if I use an RF remote, do I need an RF receiver and an IR blaster (or multiple emitters) to cover all the lighting controls and AV equipment?


I called a local CI guy. He wants to come over and talk to me about a Control4 system. Says it's better. I really need something modest that will control just the AV room.


Thanks for any answers.


----------



## DMF

Dennis Erskine sells PELV by the foot. So do some e-tailers.


Paul, do you want a separate control near the bar for the bar lights? If not, why not just add them to an existing zone?


I *think* Spacer only understands command codes for scenes 1-4. The GE understands 1-16. On the GE you could set scenes 1-4 to do nothing. Then the remote would be able to control the Spacer separately, in effect. But that would not integrate the scenes. You could set GE scenes 1-4 to go along with the Spacer, but then you give up separate control. It's not a perfect solution.


Lutron makes an RF-controlled version of the GE called Radio-RA. I don't know if there is a RF version of the QS line, though. Ask Lutron.


----------



## PaulF

Thanks for the answer DMF. Yes I have one main light and a pair of low voltage lights over the bar that I want to control separately. I have pre-wired the room that way now.


Lutron confirms that scenes 1-4 can be dedicated to the Spacer, but I just realized after your explanation that then I can't blend a scene.


After more research I have come across these options.


1. From a Lutron press release...



> Quote:
> *Grafik Eye integration.*
> 
> Also, Radio Ra 2 is interoperable with the newish Grafik Eye QS Wireless (RF). Currently, that product communicates wirelessly with Sivoia QS shades and Powr Savr occupancy sensors, but not with the next-gen Ra 2 lighting controls.
> 
> 
> Kleinberg explains, "Some customers use Grafik Eye QS Wireless as a single-room system in a theater, dining room, or other area where there are many zones of light that can be wired back to one box. It offers lots of control in one sleek package with many, many color options. If those customers later choose to expand with RadioRa 2 , their Grafik Eye can be controlled as a seamless part of the system. "



While the above is slightly contradictory (perhaps a typo), the gist seems to be that RadiaRa 2 units can be used to extend a GE QS wireless.


. and from Lutron's website...



> Quote:
> *Media room*
> 
> With RadioRA 2, you can easily and conveniently turn your media room into a home theater by creating the perfect viewing environment. Lowering shades blocks glare on screens, improving the picture, while adjusting the light level enhances the experience. Because the RadioRA 2 system is an "open" system that works with *many popular brands of remotes*, you'll have the ability to control your lights, shades, audio-visual components, and temperature from one remote control.



This combination suggests that I should be able to augment a GE QS RF with a couple of extra RadioRA 2 dimmers and integrate the scenes. I don't need wireless access to the shade or media closet as I have those pre-wired. Perhaps the RF receiver for the RadioRA 2 can be wired to the GE QS RF like an IR blaster can be wired to the GE QS non-RF?


2. Another option I spotted from Universal Remote (URC).

http://www.universalremote.com/produ....php?model=157 



> Quote:
> With one address stored in all dimmers and one unique address stored in each dimmer:
> 
> 
> * Eight (8) Lighting Scenes involving all RF Dimmers and RF Switches.
> 
> * All: On, Off, Brighten and Dim.
> 
> * Each: On, Off, Brighten and Dim individually.



This system is a partnership between Universal remotes and Lutron, and while the system appears to give individual control of each light (still trying to figure out if a remote can control individual zones on the GE) and controls the dimmers directly without the use of an in-between receiver, they are expensive and only available through URC dealers. Of course this means only URC remotes can control them. No idea if this can be integrated with the GE QS.


I'm going to start checking the manuals but if you or anyone can help clarify, it would be appreciated. Also if anyone know what "universal remotes" are being alluded to, that would be helpful.


----------



## WannaTheater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17758112
> 
> 
> Dennis Erskine sells PELV by the foot. So do some e-tailers.



Which e-tailers? I have not been able to find any online.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17758565
> 
> 
> Lutron confirms that scenes 1-4 can be dedicated to the Spacer, but I just realized after your explanation that then I can't blend a scene.



Maybe you can. Have the remote send _both_ scene codes, e.g. 1 and 5. If you've set the GE so that 1 does nothing, and the Spacer won't understand 5, then you get both.



> Quote:
> still trying to figure out if a remote can control individual zones on the GE



This from the RS232 command set:


> Quote:
> SET CONTROL UNIT ZONE INTENSITIES
> 
> This command changes the intensity of the given zones to the new values in the given fade time. The scene
> 
> number selected will change to 17 (H from an :A command), but preset data will not be changed. Parameters
> 
> must be separated by a space (20h).
> 
> szi [Control Unit] [ft] [Int1] [Int2] [Int3] [Int4] [Int5] [Int6] [Int7] [Int8]
> 
> Control Unit - Control Unit to set zone intensities
> 
> ft - fade time
> 
> 0h—3Bh = seconds (0—59 seconds)
> 
> 3Ch—78h = subtract 3Bh for minutes (1—60 minutes)
> 
> Intx - intensity for zone x 0h -> 7Fh, * is don't change
> 
> Refer to Control Units, Intensity in the General Information section
> 
> for details on converting decimal values to hexadecimal values.
> 
> Example: :szi 5 A 20 20 * 20 20 20 set zones 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 on unit at address 5 to 25%
> 
> with a 10 second fade, don't change zone 3
> 
> Note: It is not necessary to send all 8 values, but placement and order is important. Use * for zones that are to
> 
> remain the same. In the example above, zone 3 does not change, but an * is required as a placeholder to
> 
> send values for zones 4 and above.
> 
> Note: For non-Dim zones, 0 = zone off, 1 to 7F = zone on.
> 
> For shade zones 0 = STOP
> 
> 1 = OPEN
> 
> 2 = Close
> 
> 3 = Preset 1 (Sivoia only)
> 
> 4 = Preset 2 (Sivoia only)
> 
> 5 = Preset 3 (Sivoia only)



As you can see, it's not a simple command. But I think you could program the remote to issue it. I don't understand the IR interface well enough to be able to state that all the (non-programming) commands can be conveyed via IR. Lutron will have to tell you that. (Tell us when you find out.)


Also look for LutronGRXIT in their tech database. It's a program that runs on a PDA to control a GE. Since the PDA would have to use the IR interface, anything it can do a programmable remote can do.


Here's some more on IR:


> Quote:
> All GRAFIK Eye Control Units are equipped with an IR Receiver for use with GRX-IT and
> 
> GRX-8IT handheld remote controls. The IR frequency for all GRAFIK Eye Control Units is
> 
> 40.000 KHz. Any other device continuously operating in the frequency range from 30 KHz to
> 
> 50 KHz may cause either no response or unwanted scene changes on the GRAFIK Eye
> 
> Control Unit(s).
> 
> Every Infrared transmitter sends a burst of data that is then received on an Infrared Receiver.
> 
> It is possible, and likely, that several Infrared Transmitters will operate at the same central
> 
> frequency. However, it is the task of the manufacturer to encrypt this data so another IR
> 
> Transmitter will not affect their equipment. In the case of the GRAFIK Eye, its encryption is
> 
> extremely complex to reduce the possibility of other IR signals affecting the product.



You now know more about RadioRA 2 than I do. (The GE 3500 analog is called "Grafik RA", not RadioRA as I said earlier. RadioRA - RA-GRXI - is an RF receiver that hooks directly into the GE control bus, bypassing the IR receiver.) I've never used RF, and have precious little experience with IR remotes.


If you're contemplating full-scale control systems, Lutron's Homeworks line is worth considering. Drop cinemascope a PM; he specializes in Homeworks.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/17760948
> 
> 
> Which e-tailers? I have not been able to find any online.



Hank's? Main Street? I don't keep up with what the e-tailers are doing.


Or drop Dennis a PM.


----------



## PaulF

Thanks again DMF. I see what you're saying about sending both codes. I guess that would work. In my setup I could potentially hit both IR dimmers, or for one not have line of sight. So the spacer, while workable, is not the optimal solution.


I want to integrate this onto a universal remote to avoid using a separate remote for lighting. The GRX-IT and GRX-8IT would be fine for lighting only, but prefer to integrate with AV remote.


From what I read, the RA-GRXI RF receiver is compatible with the 3000 and 4000 series GEs only.


Happy to hear the GE can take a zone dim/brighten command, though too complex so I'll let the CI figure that out.


I have confirmed there are at least two possible routes to go, not including the URC/Lutron combo mentioned previously.


Option 1. All Lutron system (except remote). This would include:


- Grafik Eye QS Wireless.

- RadioRA 2 Main Repeater.

- RadioRA wall dimmers.

(you could include wall button control panels etc. if needed).

- Compatible wireless universal remote (considering URC MX-880, 880z, 980).

- Receiver for wireless remote (considering URC MSC-400).


In this setup the MSC-400 talks RS-232 to the RR2 Main Repeater. The Main Repeater talks wirelessly to the GE QS Wireless (RF) and wall dimmers. The GE QS RF can still talk to the shade and seetouch wallstations over the PELV.


Option 2. Mixed Control4/Lutron system. This would include:


- Grafik Eye QS (non RF but Wireless could be used)

- Control4 Home Controller HC-200 (or higher end if required, but more than enough for just lighting).

- Control4 Wireless wall dimmers

(you could include wall button control panels etc. if needed)

- Control4 wireless system remote (various choices based on capabilities required but not as powerful as URC).


In this setup the HC-200 talks IR to the GE QS, and talks wirelessly directly to it's own wall dimmers.


Both options should allow for merged scenes, individual control (at least of each wall dimmer and GE QS), non-LOS operation, and good expansion capabilities.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17764208
> 
> 
> From what I read, the RA-GRXI RF receiver is compatible with the 3000 and 4000 series GEs only.


That's most likely a pre-QS specification. QS uses the same command set as the 3500 series (with the possible exception of additional shade commands). The electrical interface of the command bus is identical. So RA-GRXI is equally 'compatible' with QS.
*Edit:* WRONG. They GRX devices are compatible with GRX control units only, not with QS.


Be sure to talk to talk to cinemascope about the larger solution.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17597601
> 
> 
> It _is_ grounded - if you install it correctly. A metal box must be tied to the ground wire, whether you're using conduit or not. Ever notice that little green screw?
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to say since I've never dissected one.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to talk to an electrician. You do not want an isolated ground circuit here. And you are mistakenly assuming that metal conduit should be the primary ground path.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I follow you. How does one soundproof an electrical box?



There is no little green screw on the electrical boxes I have. The box is tapped for a ground screw, but no ground screw came with the box. However, I agree with you that the metal box must be grounded and have done so. It's still not as good, in my opinion, as running EMT the whole way to the box, though.


I want an isolated ground for my equipment rack, and that's what I'm putting in, in accordance with NEC (of which I have the 2002 and 2005 versions). I wasn't going to put isolated anything on the GE circuit. My circuit will be inspected. I will not be consulting an electrician.


One soundproofs an electrical box in a variety of ways, including putting putty pads (used for fire typically, but used here to reduce sound transmission) around the box, paying particular attention to the wire entrances and exists. The other option is to build a box (typically, MDF and a layer of fire-resistant material) around the electrical box, and then perform certain techniques to reduce sound transmission from the box. This is a bit complex, though, due to the number of penetrations.


Any other questions?


----------



## Chiahead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/17770631
> 
> 
> There is no little green screw on the electrical boxes I have. The box is tapped for a ground screw, but no ground screw came with the box. However, I agree with you that the metal box must be grounded and have done so. It's still not as good, in my opinion, as running EMT the whole way to the box, though.



The metal boxes usually never come with the ground screws. You purchae the screws separately. They are by the wire nuts at my Home Depot.


----------



## DMF

You're right. I had to buy the ground screws too. I forgot that. (But you would even with a Chicago-style conduit ground. The fixture needs one to ground to the box.)


Frankly, if I'm pulling Romex or a dedicated ground wire into a metal box, I'd just as soon ground the box directly. That way I don't have to worry about an EMT ground remaining intact.


*ctviggen*, the question was not _how_ to soundproof an electrical box, but _why_?



Now, as to using an isolated ground circuit, I wasn't very clear earlier about why I think it is inappropriate for use in the home, specifically for A/V equipment. This is not a thread about electrical design so I'll simply state my position and leave it at that.


The primary justification for using an isolated ground circuit is to provide "clean power" to keep noise from passing through the equipment power supplies and affecting the output. There are two arguments against it. First, it solves a problem you simply don't have. Second, with the various external connections of an A/V setup, the dangers of ground surge are very real.


With the power supplies in good quality A/V equipment, line noise simply does not pass through the power supply. To go into this much further would require getting into power supply design which is a topic for another forum.


When you see isolated ground circuits in (e.g.) hospitals, they use orange receptacle and are clearly labeled so that the operators don't cross-connect with equipment on other circuits. Yet it's the rare A/V equipment bay that doesn't include connections to cable/dish, Ethernet, phone line, etc. Further, it's common practice to put the low-power electronics on one circuit, amps on another, subs on a third, etc.. Unless all of the interconnected equipment grounds to the same earth (ground rod), a close lightning strike can destroy the whole installation.


If you feel that you must use an isolated ground circuit, then consult with someone familiar with the dangers. Or be prepared to replace your gear.


----------



## PaulF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17766216
> 
> 
> That's most likely a pre-QS specification. QS uses the same command set as the 3500 series (with the possible exception of additional shade commands). The electrical interface of the command bus is identical. So RA-GRXI is equally 'compatible' with QS.
> 
> 
> Be sure to talk to talk to cinemascope about the larger solution.



DMF, Lutron confirms the RA-GRX1 is not compatible with the QS. They say the 4 wire mux bus is not compatible between the older series and QS series GEs. I'm told GEs of different generations can't talk to each other. In addition the RA-GRXI is not compatible with RadioRA 2 which I need in order to integrate the independent dimmers with the GE QS RF.


They say the GRX-IRI will work with the QS, the PRO commands work but the instantaneous save function does not. Regardless IR into the GE will not work for me as the independent dimmers on the RadioRA 2 use RS-232 strings and therefore the remote would have to send IR and RS-232 strings at the same time. However, Lutron did confirm the RS-232 string commands for the GE QS RS-232/Ethernet interface will also be passed through by the RadioRA Main Repeater.


I thought I had reached my goal until one of the techs told me the QS mux bus is disabled when the GE QS RF is subbed off a RadioRA 2 repeater. That means no more wired SeeTouch control panels or wired shades. The SeeTouch panels can be replaced with RadioRa 2 controllers and the wired shade must become a wireless shade that works off the Main Repeater. It means I need to add a wireless receiver to the shade.


I believe I can ultimately get all the functionality, just a little more expensive and complex that I had hoped for.


I will PM cinemascope and ask him to check in on the thread.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17777785
> 
> 
> DMF, Lutron confirms the RA-GRX1 is not compatible with the QS. They say the 4 wire mux bus is not compatible between the older series and QS series GEs.










"not compatible" how? (see below)
*Edit:* I get it now. See post #824.



> Quote:
> I'm told GEs of different generations can't talk to each other.



Well, between the 3100 and 3500 the buses are _electrically_ compatible, but the command sets are different. (3500 command set is a superset of the 3100.) I'm fairly certain that they can coordinate (talk to each other) but only in a limited way.



> Quote:
> They say the GRX-IRI will work with the QS,



This is where I get confused. GRX-IRI works with 3500. If it works with both 3500 and QS then the buses _must_ be electrically identical.
*Edit:* They are, but that's not relevant.



> Quote:
> the PRO commands work but the instantaneous save function does not.



So the command sets are (partially) different. I'll have to find the spec for the QS command set.
*Edit:* I should have looked before replying. They are very different



> Quote:
> I thought I had reached my goal until one of the techs told me the QS mux bus is disabled when the GE QS RF is subbed off a RadioRA 2 repeater. That means no more wired SeeTouch control panels or wired shades. The SeeTouch panels can be replaced with RadioRa 2 controllers and the wired shade must become a wireless shade that works off the Main Repeater. It means I need to add a wireless receiver to the shade.



Or just use IR? I understand RF is more convenient, but was there a compelling reason for it over IR?


----------



## PaulF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17781828
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "not compatible" how? (see below)
> 
> 
> Well, between the 3100 and 3500 the buses are _electrically_ compatible, but the command sets are different. (3500 command set is a superset of the 3100.) I'm fairly certain that they can coordinate (talk to each other) but only in a limited way.



I was referring to the QS (that now uses what they refer to as the QS link) vs the 3000/4000 series. Lutron tech support is fragmented, each person only seems to have partial answers. Sometimes they conflict. That's why I am seeking input here from actual users.



> Quote:
> This is where I get confused. GRX-IRI works with 3500. If it works with both 3500 and QS then the buses _must_ be electrically identical.
> 
> 
> So the command sets are (partially) different. I'll have to find the spec for the QS command set.



Your confusion is my fault. I think what he told me was the QS accepts the PRO commands directly on the rear IR link, but it does not support the save function of the GRX-IRI.



> Quote:
> Or just use IR? I understand RF is more convenient, but was there a compelling reason for it over IR?



The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.


1. One bar dimmer is not LOS from about 80% of my HT room.

2. There are some locations where the two bar dimmers would both be LOS.

3. The GE systems appear to be designed for stand-alone use. RadioRA 2 seems to be the first product to provide decent integration between a GE and other dimmers. I haven't figured out any other way to get the same level of integration and functionality.


Using IR to the GE QS is still an option. For one at least it doesn't kill the mux bus and I could use wired accessories (shade, keypads etc.). OTOH, IR to the other dimmers has the problems mentioned above.


One other nice thing about RadioRA 2 is that Lutron is about to relase a hybrid dimmer/control station. The top button controls the local dimmer, the other buttons (different ordering options available) control the other dimmers, scenes or zones (including the GE QS RF).


In my case I would need a SeeTouch control panel right next to a dimmer. With RadioRA 2 I could combine them into 1 control. In addition it will allow me to control the other bar dimmer which would otherwise have been a stand-alone.


These are the options I believe are available to me.


RadioRA 2 Main Repeater

> GE QS

> Sivoia shade (wired)

> Wired SeeTouch Control panel for Zone 1 (entry hallway) and all off control by entry door.

> Bar dimmer 1 RF (in two gang box next to Zone 1 control panel)

> Bar dimmer 2 RF


This option would require IR into the GE QS and RS-232 into the RadioRA 2, so don't know if it's even practical. Maybe I would have to do an all IR as you suggested but live with the constraints in functionality.


RadioRA 2 Main Repeater

> GE QS RF

> Sivoia shade RF (according to Lutron the FP buttons on the GE QS will still control the shade even though it is not wired directly to the GE any more)

> Hybrid Bar dimmer/control panel 1 RF (controls local dimmer, other RF bar dimmer and GE QS RF from single gang box).

> Hybrid Bar dimmer/control panel 1 RF (for control of both RF bar dimmers).


Both option would be driven by a URC front end.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17782768
> 
> 
> Lutron tech support is fragmented, each person only seems to have partial answers. Sometimes they conflict.



Yeah, I've found the same thing. But if you're persistent and ask if there's someone who might have a more complete answer, you can get to a guy who knows exactly how to answer that question. I think tech support may fall back on the engineers.











> Quote:
> I think what he told me was the QS accepts the PRO commands directly on the rear IR link,


That's not right. GRX-IRI lives on the data bus. It does not hook into the QS IR port. (Ultimately, the GE/QS IR section also lives on the data bus.) As I understand it, a GRX-IRI is essentially the IR section out of a GE/QS packaged for remote installation. http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/Insta...es/032133a.pdf (A better choice might be the GRX-CIR in-ceiling version, btw.)


> Quote:
> The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.
> 
> 1. One bar dimmer is not LOS from about 80% of my HT room.
> 
> 2. There are some locations where the two bar dimmers would both be LOS.
> 
> 3. The GE systems appear to be designed for stand-alone use. RadioRA 2 seems to be the first product to provide decent integration between a GE and other dimmers. I haven't figured out any other way to get the same level of integration and functionality.


GE has decent integration between GE units. You can tie up to 8 of them to the same bus. So rather than Spacer, if you use a cheap GE to control the bar zone, then an IR remote placed anywhere would pass the commands to both, and you could use SeeTouch and the QS shade controls.


You won't be able to address the two units separately via IR except using the multiple scenes trick we discussed above. A wall station in the bar area could be set to issue only the bar GE scenes and so appear to be dedicated only to that unit if you didn't want to mount the second GE for public access.


To me the two-GE IR solution seems to be simpler and cheaper than the RF solution while retaining most if not all of the functionality you want.


----------



## flycub

Hello there, I am doing my homework prior to install a Grafik Eye QS system in my house. I hope this is the right place to post this message. Apologies if it is not.


First of, some background information : I live in France, there's very little Lutron support here, so most of the equipment will be purchased in the UK.


My home is a two-story house with a basement. My idea is to have one QS affected to each floor.

This is rather unusual for a residential but all lights in the house are triggered by relay switches at the main panel.

All rooms are equiped with push-buttons to trigger the switches. It means I have wires going from the panel to the lights throughout the house, as well as wires going from the panel to the push-buttons in every room.


This is a retrofit and I want to avoid any rewiring : physically, all QS boxes would be installed on the first floor in the electrical cabinet where all circuit breakers and relay switches are. I would discard the relay switches, replacing them by the GRX boxes.


The push-buttons switches would be replaced with SeeTouch Wallstations. I'd have maybe 2 or 3 SeeTouch connected to each QS in a hub type network.


My question is in regards to the control wiring : I am thinking of using the existing cables running from the push-buttons to the relay switches. They are standards 2,5mm2 wires : is it a problem to run low voltage over high voltage wires ? I know they don't run in the same conduits.


Any comment or suggestion regarding this projected set-up is welcome ! I don't know yet if I'm going to do this as a DIY project or if I'm going to have a professional electrician do the job...


Thanks in advance for your input.


Best.


----------



## DMF

Impossible using the wired version of QS. Grafik Eye control cables are four wires wrapped in a shield. So you could not use SeeTouch QS (or any wired scene selection control) without re-wiring.

*Edit:* The wireless (RF) version of Grafik Eye QS might work. The Pico Wireless Control can be used as a wallstation and it should need only power. So no re-wiring necessary. /end edit


You might be able to do what you want* with a HomeWorks (Lutron) system where the wall stations are only wired for power and communicate with the main panel using RF (radio frequency).


Three problems: 1) We don't know much about RF or whole-house systems here; 2) France might have laws or regulations that prevent it**; 3) HomeWorks is still at the GRX level, so any QS functions you want - like shade control - might be difficult to do.



* You haven't really said what you want to accomplish. I'm assuming you want to be able to dim the lights in each room? What about shade control?


I suggest you speak to a European lighting specialist that is familiar with French and EU regulations. Start by telling him exactly what you want to accomplish, then how your house is already wired.



** Are power standards the same in France and UK? 230VAC, 50 Hz?


Bon chance!


----------



## DMF

Okay, I've been operating under a major misconception here, and I apologize for spreading bad information. After comparing the 3500 and QS specifications, I gathered enough info to force me to call Lutron to find out what I wasn't getting, and here it is:

*The old GRX series control bus protocol is different from that used on the new QS line.*


The two buses are electrical identical, but the command sets are significantly different. It means you can plug GRX controls or units together with QS controls or units, but they won't be able to understand each other. They're speaking different languages.


The biggest difference is that QS commands now embed unit serial numbers in the command. (Technically, this is a good thing - I think. Each control unit and device (e.g. wallstation) is assigned a unique serial number. Under the old protocol, a wallstation command (e.g.) 'Go to Scene 5' would be heard and obeyed by all control units on the bus. Now there is the capability for the wallstation to say, 'Control Unit X Go to Scene 5' while control unit Y does nothing.)


So while I've been saying that a GRX-IRI can be used with a QS control unit, it cannot. There are in fact no remote IR control units with QS. You have to use the rear IR port for remote IR. (Note, however, that the IR commands _are_ the same: GRX-IT remote controls work with both GRX and QS.)


Likewise, you can't replace a GRX unit in an existing installation with other GRX units with the equivalent QS unit; the entire installation must be replaced.


Again, I apologize for any confusion I might have generated.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17782768
> 
> 
> The reasons I am leaning towards RF are several.
> 
> ...



After learning that there are no remote IR interfaces that work with QS, I've started to agree with you.


But if you use RF, then Spacer isn't an option for the bar. You'd pretty much have to go to a second control unit. (Or re-think your zones.)


----------



## flycub

Thanks DMF !



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17795251
> 
> 
> Impossible using the wired version of QS. Grafik Eye control cables are four wires wrapped in a shield. So you could not use SeeTouch QS (or any wired scene selection control) without re-wiring.



Actually I have at least four wires going to each push-buttons box (I have several push-buttons in each box). So my question stands : will control signals work over high voltage wires ?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17795251
> 
> *Edit:* The wireless (RF) version of Grafik Eye QS might work. can be used as a wallstation and it should need only power. So no re-wiring necessary. /end edit



I will look into it, but I'm not sur they distribute this product in Europe yet. Plus the wireless capabilities is limited to the Pico remote control (not very aesthetic in my opinion) for controls --- and I really like the SeeTouch...

And yes, UK, France and all of Europe have the same electricity output --- not the same plugs though.


My basic goal is to have some dimming and scenes in the living room, and maybe in the master. But then, I'm thinking it would be nice to have some flexibility, say turn off the downstairs lights from upstairs. Another thought is to have a "future proof" system with the possibility in the future to add shade controls or A/V compatibilty.


I started to do some research on HomeWorks but I think it's dealer-only install solution --- and I don't even know if it's distributed here. FYI The few Lutron installers here specialize in Russian bilionaires mansions


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> will control signals work over high voltage wires ?



Well, sure. They're only copper. And of course assuming that you don't actually have high voltage on them.










Here I don't think it would meet code to use what appears to be power cable for non-power use. Someday someone might try to hook it back to power...


There are two issues with doing so, though. First, you're putting a digital signal on unshielded cable. Digital puts out a fair amount of noise and might interference with other devices. (If the wires are in metal conduit then no problem.) Second, you may have to splice down to fit the connectors in the SeeTouch wallstation. Assuming the SeeTouch QS connectors are like the older SeeTouch connectors, they can take significantly bigger wires than is used in proper control cable, but power cable is pretty big. And work hardening would tend to put a lot of pressure on the connector. You may want to splice anyway.



HomeWorks is installed by professionals because it's pretty complex. They don't have a QS version of it yet; it's still at the GRX level.



Is your wiring fairly typical of Europe? It seems odd to me to have power voltage switches controlling relays that switch ... power voltage. Maybe the idea is like a patch panel, where you can re-wire what the switches switch?


----------



## flycub

I think you're right about digital noise, there's a risk of reliability issues.

You're also right about local code issues...

I guess I have to figure out something else.

As for my installation, relay switches are not common in residential over here. But I believe that usually relay switches and push buttons use standard power and not low voltage.


----------



## Waynedude

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but will try. I have a retro situation in a condo where I will be using a GE-6 for the majority of the lighting switchlegs (currently running into an existing 4 gang box). Due to concrete ceilings and other restrictions, it is difficult to economically get to two existing switches located in other areas of the condo. Could I use a RA-GRX-6 as a master and RA standalone dimmers for the two additional switchlegs to effectively have an 8 zone system where the RA-GRX-6 scene buttons (or GRX-IT remote) act as the master scene buttons? I know I will need a repeater as well for the system.


Thanks for your help!


----------



## marklabelle870

O.k.. kind of a wiring and GE question. I just need a confirmation..


I have Zone 4 running the riser lights and I just realized - after all electrical has been run - that I forgot the wiring for the receptables in the front of the riser for the Berklines (nice oops, but my first so far, so not bad). It's going to be a double gang - 4 outlet for the front four chairs. My thought is, since it is just for the electric recline, I can just go from the GE to a riser light and then to the receptable to the next riser light, etc.


Since I haven't wired up my GE yet - drywall is coming next week - I figured, there was no down side to this.... I really don't want to run a line back to the breaker for just this receptacle and rewiring the rest would be a PITA. All of the receptacles in the room are on their own seperate breaker.


Thoughts?


----------



## fotto




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marklabelle870* /forum/post/17817863
> 
> 
> O.k.. kind of a wiring and GE question. I just need a confirmation..
> 
> 
> I have Zone 4 running the riser lights and I just realized - after all electrical has been run - that I forgot the wiring for the receptables in the front of the riser for the Berklines (nice oops, but my first so far, so not bad). It's going to be a double gang - 4 outlet for the front four chairs. My thought is, since it is just for the electric recline, I can just go from the GE to a riser light and then to the receptable to the next riser light, etc.
> 
> 
> Since I haven't wired up my GE yet - drywall is coming next week - I figured, there was no down side to this.... I really don't want to run a line back to the breaker for just this receptacle and rewiring the rest would be a PITA. All of the receptacles in the room are on their own seperate breaker.
> 
> 
> Thoughts?



Mark, IMHO I would be very leery of wiring up to 4 chairs on one of my GE zones. Motors are notoriously power hungry, and if for instance a Berkline power recline motor draws 3 amps, if you'd have 3 reclining at once that would be 9 amps, which is around 1/2 your total GE wattage budget







.


You might want to check with Berkline to see what their current draw is on the motor. I'd just tie those two outlets into the closest 20 amp existing circuit you've already run (if you have one available).


----------



## marklabelle870




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fotto* /forum/post/17818221
> 
> 
> Mark, IMHO I would be very leery of wiring up to 4 chairs on one of my GE zones. Motors are notoriously power hungry, and if for instance a Berkline power recline motor draws 3 amps, if you'd have 3 reclining at once that would be 9 amps, which is around 1/2 your total GE wattage budget
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> You might want to check with Berkline to see what their current draw is on the motor. I'd just tie those two outlets into the closest 20 amp existing circuit you've already run (if you have one available).



Shoot... you know I thought that's what someone would say. Thanks fotto. Good point...


I guess, I'll just tie into the receptacle 20 amp run. More work, more work, more work.. 


Mark


----------



## WannaTheater

Not trying to hijack, but how long are Berkline power cords?


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Waynedude* /forum/post/17816585
> 
> 
> Could I use a RA-GRX-6 as a master and RA standalone dimmers for the two additional switchlegs ...



Sorry, I don't know. I'm not very familiar with Lutron's RF options.


If you're using a universal RF remote, perhaps you could program it to emit GE commands, then commands for your other dimmers when a single button is pushed.


----------



## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17827576
> 
> 
> Sorry, I don't know. I'm not very familiar with Lutron's RF options.
> 
> 
> If you're using a universal RF remote, perhaps you could program it to emit GE commands, then commands for your other dimmers when a single button is pushed.



Hello everyone. I may be able to help on the RF front. I am already Level II certified on the RadioRa2 platform, and have a good understanding of classic Ra and HomeWorks Wireless as well.


DMF,

there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.










PaulF,

I got the PM, and I will try to review the last couple pages so over the weekend and see if I can shed some light on the issue (all horrible puns intended).


-Rick.


----------



## GetGray




> Quote:
> there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.



Sure there is. Not universal RF per se, but "Universal Remote Control" has a Lutron-built RF standalone dimmer set that interfaces specifically with all of it's narrow-band RF remotes. So if the OP used a URC brand remote, he could do that part of his plan eaisly.


----------



## Waynedude

Thanks DMF, I appreciate your response! I guess I'll try to call Lutron..


----------



## flycub

Happy new year everyone.


I figured out my wiring situation for my Grafikeye QS project. Now moving forward on my planning, and I have one question :

basically, I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.

How do I go about that ?

Thanks !


----------



## PaulF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17795564
> 
> 
> Okay, I've been operating under a major misconception here, and I apologize for spreading bad information. After comparing the 3500 and QS specifications, I gathered enough info to force me to call Lutron to find out what I wasn't getting, and here it is:
> 
> *The old GRX series control bus protocol is different from that used on the new QS line.*
> 
> 
> The two buses are electrical identical, but the command sets are significantly different. It means you can plug GRX controls or units together with QS controls or units, but they won't be able to understand each other. They're speaking different languages...
> 
> 
> Again, I apologize for any confusion I might have generated.



No problem. This is what Lutron tech support had been telling me. At least we're getting consistent info.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/17832491
> 
> 
> 
> DMF,
> 
> there is no universal RF remote. Different devices that communicate via RF often use different frequencies for carriers, and then use proprietary communications as well. This would require one seriously complicated remote device.



The only thing I found was the URC/Lutron combo but that locks you into URC. You cannot buy a standard Lutron wireless dimmer nor can you use another universal remote. Control4 is similar but again you are restricted to that system and the few dimmer controls they offer.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cinemascope* /forum/post/17832491
> 
> 
> PaulF,
> 
> I got the PM, and I will try to review the last couple pages so over the weekend and see if I can shed some light on the issue (all horrible puns intended).
> 
> 
> -Rick.



Thanks, look forward to your feedback. I like the RR2 system. The only thing I find restrictive is that the mux bus is disabled when a GE QS hangs off the RR2 Main Repeater. I would have preferred my shade be wired to the QS but believe the shade can connect wirelessly (using a Lutron antenna) to the RR2 MR and still allow the buttons on the GE QS to control it. It would be nice to get confirmation of this.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GetGray* /forum/post/17833135
> 
> 
> Sure there is. Not universal RF per se, but "Universal Remote Control" has a Lutron-built RF standalone dimmer set that interfaces specifically with all of it's narrow-band RF remotes. So if the OP used a URC brand remote, he could do that part of his plan eaisly.



Yeah, that and the control4 will give you direct RF access between the remote and the RF dimmers. However both of these systems lock you in and offer few options. URCs dimmers, for example, are $150 and their system won't work with anything else.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17795656
> 
> 
> After learning that there are no remote IR interfaces that work with QS, I've started to agree with you.
> 
> 
> But if you use RF, then Spacer isn't an option for the bar. You'd pretty much have to go to a second control unit. (Or re-think your zones.)



The spacer is too restrictive so I am leaning towards the RR2/GE QS combo, or at least something that offers integration via RF.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flycub* /forum/post/17838028
> 
> 
> Happy new year everyone.
> 
> 
> I figured out my wiring situation for my Grafikeye QS project. Now moving forward on my planning, and I have one question :
> 
> basically, I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.
> 
> How do I go about that ?
> 
> Thanks !



You can connect the two GEs over the 4-wire mux bus. This should allow the unit that has the wallstation you are operating to talk to the other unit that has the AC control of the lights. Actually I think it's all one bus that the wallstations and GEs share. But I would still confirm with someone more knowledgeable than me


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PaulF* /forum/post/17849756
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flycub* /forum/post/17838028
> 
> 
> I'll have 1 QS running the downstairs room and 1 QS running the upstairs room. Obviously I'd like my stairways lights to be controlled from both downstairs and upstairs SeeTouch wallstations.
> 
> How do I go about that ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can connect the two GEs over the 4-wire mux bus. This should allow the unit that has the wallstation you are operating to talk to the other unit that has the AC control of the lights. Actually I think it's all one bus that the wallstations and GEs share. But I would still confirm with someone more knowledgeable than me
Click to expand...


Yes, everything shares the same bus.


You could have one QS control the stair light and have dedicated wall stations top and bottom to tell it to turn that zone on and off. But perhaps there's a better way. Like maybe leave it on a manual 3-way switch?


----------



## flycub




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17865588
> 
> 
> Yes, everything shares the same bus.
> 
> 
> You could have one QS control the stair light and have dedicated wall stations top and bottom to tell it to turn that zone on and off. But perhaps there's a better way. Like maybe leave it on a manual 3-way switch?



Thank you guys for your replies; by the way DMF it's really fun -- and interesting -- to go back and read your posts over the years










I talked to the Lutron guy here in France, very nice and helpfull. He confirmed what PaulF said. He also mentionned a part called WCI which could be inserted in the back of my existing push-buttons to talk to the GE QS : if I wanted I could keep the existing wall button, say upstairs -- but I'd have to change the wiring to PELV.

So a lot of options...


----------



## jetski

After months of sporadic research on these forums (thanks to all for the enormous amount of advice and info!) I've started construction of my basement theater and coming along nicly. I'm just finalizing my lighting design but need your help in choosing the best Grafik Eye for my situation. There is just so much info here it gets confusing...


I'm looking for a 5-6 zone unit with the IR built in for remote control.

What would you all recommend and where are the best places to acquire them?


Thanks in advance for your help,

Scott


----------



## DMF

They all have IR built in. We'd need to know more about your application (and your wallet) before making a recommendation.


AVS policy discourages recommending vendors.


----------



## jetski

Here's a little more info for you on the different zones in searching for the best grafic eye options for me.


Zone 1 - 4 can lights

Zone 2 - 2 can light

Zone 3 - 4 sconce's

Zone 4 - Tray Rope lights

Zone 5 - front stage rope lights


I currently have cat6 wire running from my 4 gang box to my rack for IR.


Based on the above what models would you recommend and why.

What other info may you need to assist in making recommendations.

As for price, I don't need the top of the line but really just looking for internal IR and a few scene settings options for the theater.


Thanks in advance for your help,


Scott


----------



## Chiahead

I think the IR is external on these. I purchased another item from Lutron that goes in a 1 gang box that the IR runs to, then that connects to the Graphik Eye (GRX-IRI).


I bought the 3506, for 6 zones, and it isn't the latest model (still will work for me)

you can get the 3505, or the 6 and be able to add another zone later if needed.


----------



## DMF

IR is line-of-sight. The GRX-IRI is for cases where the GE is out of the line of sight. An IR extender does roughly the same thing, but is less elegant and less expensive.


jetski, where are you? How sensitive are you to cost? How many wall stations will you need (if any)? Accessories? Can you still pull cable? Is your rack or 4-gang box within line-of-sight?


----------



## Chiahead

I just didn't want a flasher extended to the Graphik Eye and attached to the face, or under the cover causing a buldge. I wanted a clean look, so that is why I am using the GRX_IRI. The 3506 will be to my left, and I want to just point the remote to the screen, and I don't know if the bounce off of the screen will work, so I have it wired for a repeaster.


----------



## DMF

If I needed an IR remote pickup, that's the way I'd go too. Or a GRX-CIR in-ceiling version. I have a weakness for elegance.


----------



## crimscrem

EDIT: I've gone back to my post and edited it as I believe I now have a better understanding. I want confirmation that what I'm planning to do makes sense.


I have a setup where the room is roughly 15 1/2' wide and 27 1/2' long. The front 15 1/2' is the movie/media space and the the rest is a kitchen/bar space that looks into the movie/media space. I've attached a picture of the unfinished space as we are currently finishing it. The first picture is from the kitchen space looking into the movie/media space and the wall on which the screen will be placed. The second looks from off the movie/media space back into the kitchen/bar space. I am going to have can lights in the kitchen space, 4 hanging pendant lights at the bar counter top that separates the movie/media space and kitchen/bar space, 2 eyeball lights near the screen, and 4 can lights in other spots on in the media/movie space.


I envision 4 zones I want to control with GE. (1) 2 eyeball lights near stage; (2) 4 can lights in theater; (3) pendant lights hanging at the bar counter top; and (4) can lights in the kitchen.


At the bottom of the basement stairs, I want to be able to turn all on and all off the kitchen lights and the pendant lights as if each were on their own regular switch. In other words, I want to be able to turn the kitchen lights on separately from the pendant lights and vice-versa. And I want to be able to turn the kitchen lights on _and_ the pendant lights.


From the movie/media space, I want to be able to control all four zones of lighting.


As I understand it, I can go with a GE 3104 and put that in the movie/media space (likely near the equipment rack), and I will need to install a 4-scene wallstation with off (SG-4NRLN-__) at the entrance of the kitchen. The wallstation will serve as scenes 5-8. I believe I then set scenes as follows:


Scene 5: Kitchen lights full on and every other zone off.

Scene 6: Kitchen lights and pendant lights full on, all lights in movie/media space off.

Scene 7: Pendant lights full on and every other zone off.

Scene 8: open for something else.


With the GE3104 in the movie I can set scenes 1-4 as follows:


Scene 1: All lights in movie/media space full on.

Scene 2: various dimming of all 4 zones (TBD).

Scene 3: various dimming of all 4 zones (TBD).

Scene 4: All 4 zones of lights off.


I think all wires for all 4 zones run to the GE, and that I will need to run 18 awg from the GE to the wallstation. Is this right?


I will be getting a Harmony 900 remote, which I understand will work with the GE. So I will need to make sure that I have a direct line to the IR sensor on the GE right?


Does this accomplish what I want? Are there any other "less expensive" solutions? The only one I can think of is to use multiple Spacer Systems or Maestros, which will require me to hit a lot more buttons.


Thank you all for your insight.


----------



## CSO

Check here http://www.hankselectric.com/item171603.ctlg


----------



## aka23

I purchased a large group of Lutron RadioRA products on CL. At present my theater has a group of RadioRA dimmers and two controllers setup, which are quite helpful. I was planning to add in the Grafik Eye (3106) with RadioRA interface and remote control to integrate the existing RadioRA dimmers with my Harmony universal remote. The Grafik Eye works with a universal remote because it has an IR interface, while standard RadioRA does not because it is RF. My goal set up combined lighting/hardware programs on the Harmony remote. For example, if I press pause on a DVD, the lights gradually appear; and if I press play again, then the lights slowly dim to off.


Unfortunately, I've run into a hiccup. It looks like the Grafik Eye + RadioRA interface cannot acts as a controller for separated RadioRA products. Instead it can only control the lights that are connected to it directly. Can anyone confirm this? If so, does anyone have suggestions about how to reach my goal of having my installed Lutron RadioRA (RF) lights in theater controlled by an IR remote without spending $500+ for a Lutron IR repeater kit (and hopefully using IR interface of the existing & uninstalled Grafik Eye)?


----------



## jetski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17933525
> 
> 
> IR is line-of-sight. The GRX-IRI is for cases where the GE is out of the line of sight. An IR extender does roughly the same thing, but is less elegant and less expensive.
> 
> 
> jetski, where are you? How sensitive are you to cost? How many wall stations will you need (if any)? Accessories? Can you still pull cable? Is your rack or 4-gang box within line-of-sight?




DMF,

I live in the gwinnett county area (lawrenceville)

as for cost, I think where all looking to be closer to the better of the line.

Yes, i can still pull cables for another week or 2 before drywall go up.

As for the location, the GE is located in the back side of the room so will need something if these are line of sites. What is the options for the ir towards the front by screen


----------



## aka23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aka23* /forum/post/17939320
> 
> 
> I purchased a large group of Lutron RadioRA products on CL. At present my theater has a group of RadioRA dimmers and two controllers setup, which are quite helpful. I was planning to add in the Grafik Eye (3106) with RadioRA interface and remote control to integrate the existing RadioRA dimmers with my Harmony universal remote. The Grafik Eye works with a universal remote because it has an IR interface, while standard RadioRA does not because it is RF. My goal set up combined lighting/hardware programs on the Harmony remote. For example, if I press pause on a DVD, the lights gradually appear; and if I press play again, then the lights slowly dim to off.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I've run into a hiccup. It looks like the Grafik Eye + RadioRA interface cannot acts as a controller for separated RadioRA products. Instead it can only control the lights that are connected to it directly. Can anyone confirm this? If so, does anyone have suggestions about how to reach my goal of having my installed Lutron RadioRA (RF) lights in theater controlled by an IR remote without spending $500+ for a Lutron IR repeater kit (and hopefully using IR interface of the existing & uninstalled Grafik Eye)?



I spoke to Lutron support about this today. There are a variety of options for my situation, such as the RA-IR or an IR wall control. However, it sounds like I won't be able to use my Grafik Eye as I had hoped, so I have no use for it. If someone here would like to buy my 3106 Grafik Eye, 4-channel Remote, and/or RadioRA interface feel free to PM me.


----------



## eiger

Hello,


I am considering a GrafikEye solution for my dedicated HT room. Here is my setup and my needs.


2 lights and main (front stage)

2 lights at back of room (back)


Budget: Under $4-500.00. I don't need a super advanced solution.


I want to be able to control these "zones" independently. Currently they are all on the same switch.


If I have the Harmony 1100, can I control these lights without having the remote pointed directly at the Grafik Eye? The box would be at the entry way side wall which is out of sight from the seating area. I am thinking about getting an RF extender to control the rest of my componetns in the back of the room adn want to know what's the best route for me to take to also control the lighting.


What are some solutions/models I should be looking at?


----------



## SLCNewbie

Hello,


I have looked everywhere for a GRX-2404 Installation Manual. I was on infinite hold with Lutron for 45 minutes... they never came back to the phone.


Does someone have an electronic copy of this install/owners manual they could send me?


Lutron's site doesn't have an "archive" or discontinued section that I can find.


Thanks in advance for your help.


Dan


----------



## crimscrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SLCNewbie* /forum/post/17963714
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> I have looked everywhere for a GRX-2404 Installation Manual. I was on infinite hold with Lutron for 45 minutes... they never came back to the phone.
> 
> 
> Does someone have an electronic copy of this install/owners manual they could send me?
> 
> 
> Lutron's site doesn't have an "archive" or discontinued section that I can find.
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> 
> 
> Dan



shoot their technical services an email. They will respond within 48 hours and get you what you need. I've been impressed with their customer service.


----------



## jetski

Can anyone suggest where to find PELV cable locally in GA.

I only need about 5 ft to connect my 3106 and the GRX-IRI unit.


I can't seem to find any locally as no one seems to know what I'm looking for. Is it called something different at lowes/homedepot????


Your help is appreciated as drywall is being installed on monday.


Thanks,

Scott


----------



## jetski

I have one more question here.

I tried searching the thread, but came up empty on this topic.

If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga as that is currently how I have it now?


----------



## crimscrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetski* /forum/post/17977286
> 
> 
> Can anyone suggest where to find PELV cable locally in GA.
> 
> I only need about 5 ft to connect my 3106 and the GRX-IRI unit.
> 
> 
> I can't seem to find any locally as no one seems to know what I'm looking for. Is it called something different at lowes/homedepot????
> 
> 
> Your help is appreciated as drywall is being installed on monday.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott



This is what I am planning on using to connect my 3104 to the wall panel:

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...=340&sku=40535


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetski* /forum/post/17977286
> 
> 
> Can anyone suggest where to find PELV cable locally in GA.



Where in GA?


Dennis Erskine has a showroom in Roswell. He sells by the foot but I wouldn't ask him to ship 5'. If you need shipping Google the Lutron part number for e-tailers.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetski* /forum/post/17977462
> 
> 
> I have one more question here.
> 
> I tried searching the thread, but came up empty on this topic.
> 
> If I wired the input/hot for the GE with 12ga Romex. Do I have to wire the zones with 12ga also or can I use 14ga as that is currently how I have it now?



Depends on what breaker is on the circuit. If you wire with 14 AWG, you cannot use a 20A breaker on the circuit. Best practice is to stick with 12 AWG.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crimscrem* /forum/post/17977717
> 
> 
> This is what I am planning on using to connect my 3104 to the wall panel:
> 
> http://www.cablestogo.com/product.as...=340&sku=40535



To the power panel?!







Not only will that fail inspection, *it's dangerous*. If you don't know why then you have no business doing your own wiring.











Unless by "wall panel" you mean a wall station other than the NT-GRX-1S? You'll need two cables - one for power and the other for data. You'll need to wrap the ends that enters the 3104 box with a few layers of electrical tape to pass code. And be durn careful to keep them sorted or you can burn out the data circuit if you use the wrong (visually identical) pair. While it will work, speaker (and Catn) cable is unshielded (unlike the Lutron cable), so expect to enjoy years of RF interference.



Why "plenum", btw? P-rated jacket kinks easily, is more expensive, and is not required for in-wall use.


----------



## jetski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17981881
> 
> 
> Depends on what breaker is on the circuit. If you wire with 14 AWG, you cannot use a 20A breaker on the circuit. Best practice is to stick with 12 AWG.



I've currently have it wired from the GE with 12 awg to a 15a breaker. Then running from the GE with 14 awg to all the zones. Do I need to change out the main line from the GE to the breaker and change it to 14 awg?


Scott


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetski* /forum/post/17982140
> 
> 
> I've currently have it wired from the GE with 12 awg to a 15a breaker. Then running from the GE with 14 awg to all the zones. Do I need to change out the main line from the GE to the breaker and change it to 14 awg?



Best practice would be to go to the panel with the smallest gauge on the circuit. When things are buttoned up, no one will know that you used 14 AWG somewhere downstream. But 12 AWG to the panel is not a code violation so you don't _need_ to replace it. You might make a note at the panel, though. (e.g. "Max 15A").


----------



## crimscrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17981964
> 
> 
> To the power panel?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not only will that fail inspection, *it's dangerous*. If you don't know why then you have no business doing your own wiring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless by "wall panel" you mean a wall station other than the NT-GRX-1S? You'll need two cables - one for power and the other for data. You'll need to wrap the ends that enters the 3104 box with a few layers of electrical tape to pass code. And be durn careful to keep them sorted or you can burn out the data circuit if you use the wrong (visually identical) pair. While it will work, speaker (and Catn) cable is unshielded (unlike the Lutron cable), so expect to enjoy years of RF interference.
> 
> 
> 
> Why "plenum", btw? P-rated jacket kinks easily, is more expensive, and is not required for in-wall use.



I've been waiting and hoping you would address my post because of your knowledge on this subject. Sorry, I meant wall station (seeTouch). The power is 12 awg and the 18 awg is for communication. Lutron's technical support said that the distance I am running (less than 30 ft) the 18 awg did not require shielding. I had hell of a time finding 18/2 awg in anything less than 250 ft.


And I had an electrician run everything. Am I okay based on the info above?


----------



## DMF

Whew!


Yeah, no problem. Hope you enjoy it!


----------



## crimscrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/17988716
> 
> 
> Whew!
> 
> 
> Yeah, no problem. Hope you enjoy it!



Thanks. I was kind of shooting in the dark here because of my unfamiliarity with Lutron and this being my electrician's first time doing it. I appreciate your input on my scene setting too (in the separate post). I've bookmarked it to use once everything is set up.


----------



## schmidtwi

Has anyone installed a GE on the outside of their theater & used an IR extender?


Where's the best place to buy a GRX-3106?


Thanks.


----------



## meyer64

I just picked up a 4 zone GE off eBay for $150. (seemed like a great deal). Its listed as a model GRX-MR-4. I'm having trouble finding detailed information on that model number though. Looking at the firsts posts in this thread it seems like that model is the same as a GRX-3104. Is that correct? Are there any differences or did Lutron just decide to change the model number at some point? I just want to gather a little more info on this thing so i can get it set up properly when it arrives.


----------



## DMF

Yes, they are the same. Lutron uses (used?) two different formats for numbers of the same model. The longer format is the order number and includes more info so it could be argued that "GRX-3104" is improper since there are several varieties of GRX-3104.


While a little hard to find, there is extensive documentation on the Lutron site. Or use docs for others in the 3100 series (not the 3500 series).


Yes, $150 is a great price.


----------



## polend1

I'm in the middle of building my "HT". Not really a dedicated HT, but I did want to add some of the nice bells & whistles of one since there's no sheetrock at the moment. Now is the time to do it right.

After much research and reading up on this site, I just purchased a GRX-3104. I only plan on controlling the lights in this one room, but I do plan to have 4 zones. I know the GE is a bit overkill for what I have, but I wanted to make the room lighting more versitile. We can always expand later. I'll have 6 cans and 3 sconces that I'll be controlling. I'm configuring the surround system so that the entertainment center can be put on 2 different walls (wife thought it was important to have options!). So keeping this in mind, I decided to put only 2 cans on a zone (did I say overkill?). This will allow me to control the lighting in the back of the room no matter which wall the television is on. I don't believe I will run into the minimum wattage requirements by doing this. If so, I have room for more cans. That would free up a zone for shades if that is possible on the 3104.


So, all that said, I have one question. What wallstation would be recommended? I'd like to do IR, but do I go with the 4 scene wallstation with IR or put in the ceiling mounted one? Am I stuck with only 4 scenes or can I add additional wallstations for more?


Thanks in advance!


----------



## NJ Jackals




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *polend1* /forum/post/18252831
> 
> 
> Am I stuck with only 4 scenes or can I add additional wallstations for more?



My understanding is that everything is addressable so if you add another keypad then you can create another set of scenes.


----------



## misko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *misko* /forum/post/17666192
> 
> 
> I have a GRX-3106 that I'd like to replace with a QS series controller with the clock feature. Since the current GRX controls my outside lights, I want to use the QS clock to set on/off times. My question is, can I just replace the GRX-3106 with a QSG-6P120 and just have it work without replacing any of the other wallstations or control units? Any advice appreciated. Thanks.



Just to finish this question, the QS system is not compatible with the 3000/4000 series Grafik Eye systems. They talk different protocols. The physical wiring is the same (although I see the QS uses 24V where the 3000 uses 12V for powering multiple wall stations). Anyway, my GRX-4s wallstations won't work with the QS controller. So, time for some QS wallstations.


But the clock feature is awesome on the QS, you tell it your location and it "knows" what time sunrise and sunset are, so you can power up lights based on sunset and not have to constantly mess with the timer as days get longer or shorter.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

This is an unfortunate by product of where the QS line from Lutron is heading. Overall the addressing limit has been 4096 devices (within any given product line other limitations have been imposed). The QS architecture appears (no "official" word from Lutron) to have addressing limits above 10,000 devices. We could do some arm waving about "backward compatibility"; but, none of us were participants in the engineering meetings so, it is what it is.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *polend1* /forum/post/18252831
> 
> 
> That would free up a zone for shades if that is possible on the 3104.



It is, but you'd need to add a shade controller of some sort.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *polend1* /forum/post/18252831
> 
> 
> What wallstation would be recommended? I'd like to do IR, but do I go with the 4 scene wallstation with IR or put in the ceiling mounted one? Am I stuck with only 4 scenes or can I add additional wallstations for more?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NJ Jackals* /forum/post/18257099
> 
> 
> My understanding is that everything is addressable so if you add another keypad then you can create another set of scenes.



Basic mis-understanding here. Wallstations have nothing to do with _adding_ scenes, only with addressing them. There is a fixed limit of 16 scenes per Grafik Eye.


You don't even need a wallstation (a thing with push buttons, not a thing with an IR sensor). You'd need one if there is an entrance that is not near the GE: every entrance needs a lighting control.


Further, the GE has an IR sensor on the front. All IR sensors are limited to line of sight, so if your GE is not in line of sight (you can't easily point your remote at it) then you'd need a remote IR sensor. You don't need to use one from Lutron, but they are nice.


----------



## polend1




> Quote:
> You don't even need a wallstation (a thing with push buttons, not a thing with an IR sensor). You'd need one if there is an entrance that is not near the GE: every entrance needs a lighting control.
> 
> 
> Further, the GE has an IR sensor on the front. All IR sensors are limited to line of sight, so if your GE is not in line of sight (you can't easily point your remote at it) then you'd need a remote IR sensor. You don't need to use one from Lutron, but they are nice.



Thanks for the comments.


My thought was to mount the GE in a closet and then control the lights with the wallstations. So the GE would not be in line-of-sight. From what I can see, the 3104 doesn't have the option for the remote IR interface like the newer versions do.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *polend1* /forum/post/18316045
> 
> 
> My thought was to mount the GE in a closet and then control the lights with the wallstations. So the GE would not be in line-of-sight. From what I can see, the 3104 doesn't have the option for the remote IR interface like the newer versions do.



Nothing to stop you from doing one yourself.










I haven't got any pictures or link to a site that does, but several people including myself have added IR emitters under the front cover with a little help from a dremel or similar, to give us IR control even when the 310x is not in line of sight.


----------



## DMF

There are examples and pics of that in this very thread. So polend1, do some more homework.


----------



## Chiahead

Or also get the GRX-IRI, place this in line of site, and use PELV to the 3104.


Or place this GRX-IRI somewhere else and use a IR repeater to get the signal there.


I did this route so that I would not possible damage unit with a home made modification.


I have not implemented it yet in my build since I am still in the construction phase, but this is my plan.


----------



## HT_SoulMan

I'm currently working on the electrical wiring in my Dedicated HT. Currently I have the Grafic Eye on radar and located a position on the wall where all of my light wiring is currently routed. My plan is to feed the GE a 20amp circuit from the panel to control five zones:


1. Wall Scones - 3

2. Recessed ligthing under soffit - 4

3. Recessed lighting above screen - 3

4. Riser lip (Rope Lighting) - 1

5. Screen border (Rope Lighting) - 1


I've read in this thread that people wired the recepticle that the rope light is plugged into to the Grafic Eye for dimming. Is it possible to wire two recepticles for rope lighting to one zone?.. Also, if LED rope lighting is used is there another device needed to up the wattage to meet the GE needs?


----------



## Stereodude

Keep in mind it is a code violation to connect a standard wall receptacle to a dimmer.


----------



## oman321

While it is against code as stereodude states, I have 2 outlets wired in the soffit to one zone. Nothing is easily plugged into these outlets due to the crown trim in front of them so I would consider that these outlets are not standard and/or easily used.


So HT_SoulMan yes, you will be able to put a couple of recepticles to one GE zone. In fact I have 2 recepticles for the rope lights and then 4 step lights all on the same zone. Because of the step lights I wasn't worried about the needed wattage but as so long as their is enough length on the rope light you should be fine. If possible get it first so you can test out perhaps. Someone did calculate it out somewhere on this forum so maybe a search will find it for you.


----------



## Stereodude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18329699
> 
> 
> While it is against code as stereodude states, I have 2 outlets wired in the soffit to one zone. Nothing is easily plugged into these outlets due to the crown trim in front of them so I would consider that these outlets are not standard and/or easily used.



Yes, it they're extremely hard to get to and out the way (ie: behind your crown molding) your local inspector may not have any with the use of a standard receptacle due to its location because the location makes it non-standard. However, they might. Lutron makes non-standard dimming receptacles CAR-15-DFDU & NTR-15-DFDU and the mating plug RP-FDU-10 that you can use also.


----------



## polend1

I just finished my GE install and thought I would share a few pics.

Found it easier to manage the wires with wire ties during the install. I removed them once everything was in place. Still need to run the PELV for the wallstations, but the hard work is done.


Thanks for all of the comments.


Feedback appreciated.


----------



## DMF

Interesting technique. I like it.


What gauge wire are you using, 14?


And what box is that? It's not a masonry box, but it looks pretty deep.


----------



## WannaTheater

Stereodude, I was planning on putting a dimmed outlet on my GE. What are the differences between the Lutron parts you list? I could only find info on one in google search.


Also, do people really use these? I know alot of people use GE to dim rope lights, and this is the first I've heard of these non standard outlets.


----------



## Stereodude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/18354784
> 
> 
> Stereodude, I was planning on putting a dimmed outlet on my GE. What are the differences between the Lutron parts you list? I could only find info on one in google search.
> 
> 
> Also, do people really use these? I know alot of people use GE to dim rope lights, and this is the first I've heard of these non standard outlets.



They have a protruding bump between the two prongs to prevent you from plugging in a standard device into them.

  



It depends if you've pulled a permit, where you've located the outlet, the inspector you get, etc, etc, etc...


The NEC dictates you can't use a standard receptacle connected to a dimmer. Some inspectors will let you use a traditional receptacle if the placement and location of the receptacle makes it "non-standard". I don't know how many people actually these non standard receptacles. FWIW, I will probably use a few in my HT lighting setup.


----------



## polend1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18349125
> 
> 
> Interesting technique. I like it.
> 
> 
> What gauge wire are you using, 14?
> 
> 
> And what box is that? It's not a masonry box, but it looks pretty deep.



Yes, 14/2. The load will be fairly low, so didn't think I needed anything heavier.


I picked up the box from a local supplier. Requested the Raco 698, but they may have given me a compatible 3.5" deep box. Worked like a charm.


----------



## marklabelle870

Quick question for troubleshooting.


I have a GE 3400 series and I ran the PELV cable from the GE to an accesorry panel in the lobby. Everything works fine from that perspective. I can control all scenes, etc. I also ran a PELV cable from the GE to the equipment room and connected it to a GE - IRI for IR. I then ran an IR blaster from the URC MRF-350 to the GE-IRI and pasted it on the back of the unit. So to recap, I have 2 PELV's out of the GE - one to accessory - one to the GE-IRI unit.


Here's my problem. I can control the GE in the room using IR. However, if I turn off the IR on the URC MX-980 and try and use RF - nothing works. The green light on the GE-IRI unit blinks, the MRF-350 blinks, the RF receiver blinks, but no scene changes.


I'm stumped. I have tried everything I can think of for troubleshooting. Wiring is fine, remote is fine, blaster is fine, receiver and transmitter is fine... Nada on the GE through RF.


Any thoughts - no matter how off the wall - are appreciated.


Thanks,


Mark


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marklabelle870* /forum/post/18387287
> 
> 
> Quick question for troubleshooting.
> 
> 
> I'm stumped. I have tried everything I can think of for troubleshooting. Wiring is fine, remote is fine, blaster is fine, receiver and transmitter is fine... Nada on the GE through RF.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts - no matter how off the wall - are appreciated.



...I use MX-850 and MRF-300 with GE-IRI in RF mode and things work fine. Could be blaster interference, make sure you assign the GE commands to solely output through the single emitter installed on the GE-IRI and none of the others, and make sure to turn off the MRF's central blaster. Could be learned command files -- I used the command files downloaded from URC's website for the GE.


----------



## marklabelle870




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/18387935
> 
> 
> ...I use MX-850 and MRF-300 with GE-IRI in RF mode and things work fine. Could be blaster interference, make sure you assign the GE commands to solely output through the single emitter installed on the GE-IRI and none of the others, and make sure to turn off the MRF's central blaster. Could be learned command files -- I used the command files downloaded from URC's website for the GE.



Thanks for the tip. Switched it to RF only and only that Line and nothing. Do you happen to have 2 PELV cables going to the GE? One for accessory and one for the MRF?


Just curious...


----------



## Jedi

...only the IRI. However, if I understand your first post, since the setup is working via the GE-IRI using your remote in IR mode, your wired communications doesn't seem to be at fault.


----------



## marklabelle870




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/18390205
> 
> 
> ...only the IRI. However, if I understand your first post, since the setup is working via the GE-IRI using your remote in IR mode, your wired communications doesn't seem to be at fault.



Sorry, my bad, it works if I stand in front of the GE in the room and point the remote.


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marklabelle870* /forum/post/18387287
> 
> 
> I also ran a PELV cable from the GE to the equipment room and connected it to a GE - IRI for IR.



....I believe the communication wiring between devices are supposed to be wired in series, i.e. "daisy chained", and not in parallel, as all run back to the GE.


----------



## DMF

Doesn't make a difference in this case. The GE is the middle node in the daisy chain.


----------



## Jedi

...Mark, another possibility, if you happened to have cut and soldered that particular emitter lead during installation, it's possible the polarity may have been reversed. The emitters must see the correct polarity -- I've done this before, where I needed a long run between the MRF and the emitter location, and nothing worked until I reversed the polarity on my solder connection.


----------



## practicalht

Does anyone have 50 feet of either Lutron GRX-CBL-346S or Liberty Cable Lutron-GRN that they would sell me? Paypal would be the easiest method of payment.


----------



## premiertrussman

Can you control a fan with a GRX-3104 just as is out of the box. For instance, i have 3 zones worth of lights...and i have a 4 zone controller, can i just put the fan on the 4th zone as long as its not dimmed?


----------



## DMF

I doubt it. A motor is a much different load than an incandescent lamp. To be sure, call Lutron tech support.


----------



## premiertrussman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18464027
> 
> 
> I doubt it. A motor is a much different load than an incandescent lamp. To be sure, call Lutron tech support.



Figured as much, just thought maybe someone would know somethin i didnt.


I guess ill just put a fan swtich next to the GE.


----------



## oman321

You can at least automate it.
http://www.grafikeye.in/CMS400/pageb...=16949&mn=1803 


Like DMF said though may be worth a call to support.


----------



## davey_fl

I'm moving this post into this thread as it deals with using (or not) the Grafik eye.


So I'm about to start building my theater and I'm trying to figure out if I should wire this room with a Grafik Eye or stick to my HAI/ALC install. The HAI/ALC install is basically a home automation panel than among other things controls the lighting in my home. Each switch for each light load is controlled via a CAT5 wire, allowing you to write logic as to when the light should come on, ramp rate etc. Basically the room will have 6 zones of lighting. I can either run a grafik eye to control the zones, and possibly use some universal IR device to control it, or I can set each individual lighting zone on an ALC dimmer, controlled via HAI (home automation), controlled via a touchscreen. Thoughts? Suggestions?



Thanks


----------



## oman321

2 very different approaches to your lighting solution. I would say that it depends on how you want to go about automating everything. The GE would look a lot nicer/cleaner over a bank of 6 switches if you are going to have the unit visible. If you will have the unit in lets say a closet, then astetics wont really matter. While you can control your GE with an IR remote or IR accessory, most if not all automation systems will offer you some sort of adapter to go to IR which will allow you to still control your GE.


If you plan to automate the rest of your homes lighting I would say it would probably be easier to go with the same solution through out. You can probably start out with an Insteon system and expand it as you go or can.


I really like the GE and I use it to control 6 zones in my basment 3 inside the theater 3 outside. It's placed just outside my HT room entrance. With a GRX-CIR-WH which is an IR accessory I am able to fully control it from within the theater. I would go with this setup if I had to do it all over again for just basement and HT, but I do like what Insteon has to offer especially with the capability to control lighting when your away from home thru WI-FI and having the ability to use I-touch/pod and now the I-Pad. If I were doing my entire home I would go with that for a solution.


----------



## premiertrussman

I've got a 3106 on the way. Im super excited. so many button to push.


----------



## premiertrussman

Can anyone tell me what the minimum wattage is per zone to dim properly an a 3106. I hand't realized there was a minimum wattage requirement till i just read it somewhere, could put a damper on some of my plans....lol...


----------



## oman321

I may be wrong but I believe it is 25 watt minimum for it to work properly. There is an accessory you can add to make up the difference when the time comes, or keep adding lights


----------



## DMF

Have you considered reading the product documentation?


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18519489
> 
> 
> Have you considered reading the product documentation?




What a novel idea!















I guess if all else fails, read the instruction manual.


----------



## premiertrussman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18518820
> 
> 
> I may be wrong but I believe it is 25 watt minimum for it to work properly. There is an accessory you can add to make up the difference when the time comes, or keep adding lights



Thanks oman, helpful as always.  Ive got a small picture frame accent type light im putting over my A/V rack and I was planning on putting it on its own leg but it only had 2-15 watt bulbs, and i started read about this minimum load requirment i wanted to make sure it would still work. If you are right i guess ill be fine.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18519489
> 
> 
> Have you considered reading the product documentation?



Ive tried, ive looked at 2 or 3 documents online, including a spec sheet, installation instructions, and like a general overview...and i cant find anything like an owners manual or something like that online, i may just be looking in the wrong spot...


I know theres a maximum load of 800 watts per zone with a max of 2000 total on the 3106, and what type of loads i can use blah blah blah, but I've never seen anywhere about the minimum load required for dimming, except here and there in a few threads i've read that stated there is a minimum load requirment but noone was saying what it was...so i figured it would be a simple thing for someone else who already new to tell me...mine is still in the mail...so i havent had a chance to look at any documentation that will come with it, and im tryin to decide how to wire for accent lighting over my A/V rack.


But thanks for the suggestion.....


----------



## DMF

Installation Guide, p.2 ("Step 1"): "Not all zones need to be connected; however, connected zones must have a load of at least 25W (40W for AU and CE models)." right before the 800W maximum.


It's also in App Note S7.


Interestingly, I haven't been able to find it anywhere else.


----------



## premiertrussman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18523021
> 
> 
> Installation Guide, p.2 ("Step 1"): "Not all zones need to be connected; however, connected zones must have a load of at least 25W (40W for AU and CE models)." right before the 800W maximum.
> 
> 
> It's also in App Note S7.
> 
> 
> Interestingly, I haven't been able to find it anywhere else.



Lol... touché...







...



I must have skimmed over it 2 or 3 times. I was looking at the charts not the step by step instructions, i guess thats what i get for not being thorough. I guess i would have eventually found it when i went to install it. It just came in the mail about 3 hours ago.


----------



## DMF

Have you found the GRAFIK Eye® 3000 Training Segments videos on the Technical Info page ? They're not about installation, but how to use it.


----------



## premiertrussman

I had not seen those, thanks.


----------



## marklabelle870




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marklabelle870*  /forum/post/18387287
> 
> 
> Quick question for troubleshooting.
> 
> 
> I have a GE 3400 series and I ran the PELV cable from the GE to an accesorry panel in the lobby. Everything works fine from that perspective. I can control all scenes, etc. I also ran a PELV cable from the GE to the equipment room and connected it to a GE - IRI for IR. I then ran an IR blaster from the URC MRF-350 to the GE-IRI and pasted it on the back of the unit. So to recap, I have 2 PELV's out of the GE - one to accessory - one to the GE-IRI unit.
> 
> 
> Here's my problem. I can control the GE in the room using IR. However, if I turn off the IR on the URC MX-980 and try and use RF - nothing works. The green light on the GE-IRI unit blinks, the MRF-350 blinks, the RF receiver blinks, but no scene changes.
> 
> 
> I'm stumped. I have tried everything I can think of for troubleshooting. Wiring is fine, remote is fine, blaster is fine, receiver and transmitter is fine... Nada on the GE through RF.
> 
> 
> Any thoughts - no matter how off the wall - are appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mark



Well I now got the IRI to work with the GE. I had to set the dip switch on the IRI to 9 per the manual and then address the GE to an address (I used A1). NICE! Everything works on the IR side.


My problem now is that the accessory panel in the lobby won't control any scenes at all. I opened up the accessory panel and then addressed it on the 4 dip switches as 1. So to recap:


IRI - Dip Switches 1 and 9

GE - Addressed as A1

Accessory Panel - Dip Switch 1


I've tried all the switches on the accessory panel and nothing. Just the Scene 3 on the panel lights up, but I can't control anything. The manuals just aren't that clear to me. Must be user error. When the GE was not addressed as A1 the accessory panel worked fine.


Any thoughts on what to set the Accessory panel as?


----------



## DMF

"accessory panel"


You mean wallstation? Which one do you have?


----------



## CSO

Here are some detail pictures of Lutron's lighting use only receptacle for connection to dimmers (i.e. Grafik Eye controllers). This is Lutron model NTR-15-DFDU. Internally, it is a Cooper (Arrow Hart) 6262 receptacle with a custom face plate. It is a very nice device with clamp style connectors. Solid. Note the duplex outlet has break off tabs to electrically separate the top from the bottom. Lutron packages this receptacle with a single gang screwless wall plate. The outlet is available in 15A and 20A versions as well as a hybrid face with only one lighting outlet.


----------



## DMF

It requires a special plug. (Included?) Price?


----------



## CSO

More pictures of the dedicated lighting outlet. The mating plug is Lutron's RP-FDU-10 which was $12 at Hank's electric . The outlet was $28.60 at Hank's . The bad thing about the plug is that it only accepts zipcord.


----------



## kkrull

I am considering a mixed Homeworks \\ Grafik Eye QS environment and hoped to get a few pointers from the group. My home is a large 70s modern remodel. Some walls are open but will soon be closed. Many are shimmed on concrete. I am looking to put a home theater in with basic lighting, six shades and six blackout shades. I also need to control six shades on the room above. I would prefer not to stray from Homeworks and Grafik Eye QS, since those two platforms are supported by my automation system(s). For personal reasons I would prefer not to use RF lights. Here are my main questions...


1. The reason for Homeworks is that, as a remodel, the house has a lot of single gang lights that I would like to control. Home running control cable to those is relatively simple. But rerouting line voltage from multiple lights to a GE QS box would be tough. I don't need to control them from a single spot on the wall. Is this logic correct?


2. The reason for Grafik Eye QS is that it seems like a more futureproof platform for things that don't exist yet, like new light runs and shading. It also seems like a cleaner solution for an existing four or five gang box, especially where some switches are double so there isn't enough room for all single homeworks dimmers anyway. True?


3. Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS and just wire a controller for the room directly above?


4. Any special wiring to, from or between QS units besides the line voltage, and the four pair shielded for remote wall plates? Do they all need ethernet for third party automation? Or do they need four pair shielded in series and just one ethernet for third party automation?


5. I think that I can wire my garage door opener and natural gas fireplace on lutron homeworks switches and check their state and control them from a third party platform. I assume that nothing like this exists for GE QS.


6. I like the satin finishes. I know the homeworks keypad is available in satin white (snow). Does the homework maestro switch come in that same satin white to match the GE QS?


7. Finally, I assume that there is no Lutron integration between homeworks and Grafik Eye QS.


----------



## DMF

"I would prefer not to use RF lights." What are RF lights?


1. "single gang outlets"? As a rule you don't control an outlet from a dimmer. Most things that plug into outlets will fry either themselves or the dimmer. What are on these outlets that you do want to control?


2. One of us isn't following something. Please explain. Lights are lights; they're not going to change. And if I'm understanding you correctly, you're mapping an individual lamp (or whatever is on an individual switch) to a controller zone?


3. "Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS" You mean Lutron shades? I think so, but check the specs.

" and just wire a controller for the room directly above?" You could do either, but consider function. Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors? What about future expansion? What about lights?


4. QS (or older Grafik Eye) control units do not need to be on the same power leg, if that's what you mean. If you want them to interoperate, you'll need to connect them with the data cable (and then set addresses, etc.)


5. No idea.


6. Probably. Check the catalog.


7. No. The data buses use different protocols.


I get the impression you're thinking of QS solely as a shade controller. That's massive under-utilization. For a theater you should also integrate it with the lighting. If that means re-running power to some lights (and why should it as few rooms are properly lighted for HT function - you'll need to install new), then bite the bullet and do it while you have the walls open.


You haven't described enough functions to justify Homeworks so I don't know how you'll be using it. But be aware that existing Homeworks is built on older Grafik Eye technology (which is why it's incompatible with QS). A new Homeworks built on QS technology is due soon.


You might be better served by

integrating older GE with current Homeworks (I'd much rather have GE control units managing groups of fixtures than single dimmers all over the place),
using only Homeworks (yes it can control shades too),
using QS and waiting on the new Homeworks (I'd use the RF version of QS in this case)


You won't get many answers about Homeworks here, btw. Like the 4000+ series GEs, Lutron does not consider it a user-installable system. If you really want a whole-house system, you would be well served to hire a professional.


----------



## kkrull

DMF - Thanks for the quick reply...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> "I would prefer not to use RF lights." What are RF lights?



I meant light switches like RadioRA that communicate on RF.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> 1. "single gang outlets"? As a rule you don't control an outlet from a dimmer. Most things that plug into outlets will fry either themselves or the dimmer. What are on these outlets that you do want to control?



I should have said lighting switches in a single gang box. I have edited my post to clear up where I wasn't using the right terminology.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> 2. One of us isn't following something. Please explain. Lights are lights; they're not going to change. And if I'm understanding you correctly, you're mapping an individual lamp (or whatever is on an individual switch) to a controller zone?



My point was that where the lights are not yet installed its easy to run wires to put them all in one switch, as opposed to my current installation in single gang boxes all over that I would have to tear out and re-drywall to move.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> 3. "Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS" You mean Lutron shades? I think so, but check the specs.
> 
> " and just wire a controller for the room directly above?" You could do either, but consider function. Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors? What about future expansion? What about lights?



Cost is the only reason. Yeah, the room has lights but I probably won't use any scenes. Certainly I won't use any on wall controllers to enact a scene. Maybe I would use the automation platform to map a light and a shade to a button on an ipad or other remote.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> 6. Probably. Check the catalog.



I can't really tell from the availability of that color and that product from the online catalog. If noone knows offhand, I will call and ask.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> I get the impression you're thinking of QS solely as a shade controller. That's massive under-utilization. For a theater you should also integrate it with the lighting. If that means re-running power to some lights (and why should it as few rooms are properly lighted for HT function - you'll need to install new), then bite the bullet and do it while you have the walls open.



No I realize it does lights and scenes, but I don't think that wall controlled scenes would be worth the trouble.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> You haven't described enough functions to justify Homeworks so I don't know how you'll be using it. But be aware that existing Homeworks is built on older Grafik Eye technology (which is why it's incompatible with QS). A new Homeworks built on QS technology is due soon.



I would be curious if anyone is speculating as to how the new homeworks QS would be different? Same topography but different protocol? Having a central controller on standard decora size switches is really handy in my remodel case.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/18595037
> 
> 
> You won't get many answers about Homeworks here, btw. Like the 4000+ series GEs, Lutron does not consider it a user-installable system. If you really want a whole-house system, you would be well served to hire a professional.



I guess the difference is homeworks is entire home and GE QS is for one room. Probably obvious to everyone else. I never really thought about it. I am more of a do it yourself guy.


----------



## DMF

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Homeworks predominately RF?

Edit: It's both wired and RF. Since you're a remodel, the wired bit seems to have little application.

Btw, I trust you've found this page ? From looking at the catalogs you'd never know what the full systems can do, except look pretty...



> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cost is the only reason. Yeah, the room has lights but I probably won't use any scenes. Certainly I won't use any on wall controllers to enact a scene. Maybe I would use the automation platform to map a light and a shade to a button on an ipad or other remote.
Click to expand...


Then forget about using a controller (such as QS) altogether and install a simple shade control. Using an automation controller of some form to activate the control seems appropriate.



> Quote:
> I don't need to control them from a single spot on the wall. Is this logic correct?





> Quote:
> No I realize it [QS] does lights and scenes, but I don't think that wall controlled scenes would be worth the trouble.



I am formally confused as to why you're choosing QS and/or Homeworks. Forget about _how_ it's to be done, just tell us _what_ you want to do. Do you only want to turn your lights on and off? Dim them? In groups or singlely? At the same time as your shades?


The classic vision for theater control is to push a button and have the house lights dim, the shades drop, and a movie come up on the screen. When it's finished push another button and shades go up and the lights go on.


And what about outside the theater? If you just want to be able to activate an existing switch remotely, then you aren't scratching the surface of what a whole-house system can do. Most of its _raison d'être_ is coordination of function. But you haven't described a single coordinated function.


Turn the outside lights on at dusk? Then off at midnight?


What about a Panic button? All lights on full - inside and out - shades up. All room controls locked out. Surveillance cameras on Record.


These things can be done.




> Quote:
> I guess the difference is homeworks is entire home and GE QS is for one room.



In terms of design scope that is true, but in terms of application it's not. There's nothing limiting QS to one room. It doesn't even have to be located in the space where it's controlled. Think of GE/QS as one element of a whole-house system. You can gang up to 8 together to make up your own whole-house system. But the investment in learning how and the expense of covering your mistakes is considerable.


That's why Lutron is set up for professional installation of whole-house systems. First, it's very difficult to convey what such a system can and can't do. Second, they can be quite difficult to specify and even more difficult to get working smoothly. Even if you do your own installation, it would pay you to have a pro design and spec the system for you.


----------



## sebberry

Quick question about the wireless system Lutron uses.


I live in a condo and while I highly doubt anyone else is using a Lutron wireless automation system, is it designed in such a way that neighboring systems won't interfere with eachother?


Thanks.


----------



## sebberry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebberry* /forum/post/18607854
> 
> 
> Quick question about the wireless system Lutron uses.
> 
> 
> I live in a condo and while I highly doubt anyone else is using a Lutron wireless automation system, is it designed in such a way that neighboring systems won't interfere with eachother?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Just answered my own question:


From the Lutron brochure

"Unique codes per household means co-located systems will

not cross-talk"


----------



## BillW

That's right, when you are in the activate mode the Radio Ra sends out a signal looking for other devices that are using the same code. If another device is already using it the RadioRa switches to another code and checks again - until a clear code set is found.

If down the road you thought you were being interfered with by another device you could go thru the activate mode in the startup program to get the RR to change codes.


Bill


----------



## sathyakamaraj

*GRX-IA-6-A-B* - I am watching this item on beay...But I cant find any documents online...I am sorry i am not familiar with Grafik Eye model numbers..all i knoe 3000,3500

help me out..


----------



## oman321

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=557480&page=4 


According to post 91 on page 4 of this thread it is the equivelant of a GRX 3506.

http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/SpecS...0EAa200007.pdf 


According to the pdf document, set up must be made via a pc.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18617613
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=557480&page=4
> 
> 
> According to the pdf document, set up must be made via a pc.



Thanks ......


----------



## Bjelland

Hello. I'm building a basement home theater and have four lighting zones I want to control from a single point with a GRX (no extra wall stations). I would like to use a Logitech Harmony 1100 universal remote to control the GRX. Which GRX (and/or accessories) is right for me and what is the difference between Grafik Eye & Grafik Eye QS?


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Please help me out : Urgent


GRX 6 zone 3106 model for $375 is a good deal??? new one...


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/18639520
> 
> 
> Please help me out : Urgent
> 
> 
> GRX 6 zone 3106 model for $375 is a good deal??? new one...



I paid just over $US400 for the GRX3106-AU one I got middle of last year.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JeffC* /forum/post/17403558
> 
> 
> The 120v is what you need.
> 
> Cheers



I know masters always say - read the forum before posting a question......

OMG I cant believe myself...I am going crazy on this HT Build...

JUST Bought

3106-T-WH........oooooooo

Now question is my stuff wont be ready - How Can I make sure system works???

Thanks everyone..


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/18639600
> 
> 
> I paid just over $US400 for the GRX3106-AU one I got middle of last year.



Thanks bud...Bought it after ur reply...last week I missed one for $310..its ok at this moment of excitement..


----------



## GWCR

Does anyone have a 4106, or have any feedback about them? I did a quick search on this thread and was surprised that nothing came up for 4106 (I am totally prepared to admit that I screwed up the search if someone links to it right away in this thread...) I have an opportunity to buy one, but wanted some quick feedback on the 4106 vs the 3106.


Thanks!


----------



## premiertrussman

The 4000 series GE's work in tandem with a separate dimmer panel. The 4106 does not actually do any dimming, its basically just a controller for the separate dimmer panel. I think they are usually used in more commercial applications.


The 3106 actually has the dimmer controls built in and works as a stand a alone unit.


Sorry if you already knew all this, but I nearly made the mistake of buying a 4106 because the price seemed better than the 3106, and if you've done some research but not a lot...it would seem that a 4106 = better than 3106 based on the numerical progression of the other model numbers...but unless you plan on buying the dimmer panel as well...not so much!


I have a 3106 and it works great.


----------



## GWCR

That is EXACTLY what I needed to know. Thanks for the info!


BTW, I am also following your build. Looks great!


----------



## premiertrussman

Thanks! Glad I could help! I finally called the Lutron tech support line and asked someone...because i was having a hard time finding documentation that i could understand that said exactly what difference between the 4000 and 3000 series was.


----------



## BillW

Lutron tech support is the best!!!


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *premiertrussman* /forum/post/18646961
> 
> 
> Thanks! Glad I could help! I finally called the Lutron tech support line and asked someone...because i was having a hard time finding documentation that i could understand that said exactly what difference between the 4000 and 3000 series was.



Could you please share the link with us, If any


----------



## premiertrussman

 http://www.lutron.com/cms400/page.as...#GRAFIKEye3000


----------



## envient

Hello to everyone.


I am planning on using Lutron Grafik Eye 3106 for my 6 circuit lighting system in my open space living room (living, kitchen, hallway, dinning etc).


My apartment is currently under construction, electrical wiring phase. At the time I've decided to use Grafik Eye they've already wired most of it.

At the switch that controls the 6 light circuits, they brought 6 wires with 3 x 1.5mm (neutral, live, ground). I've read in the Lutron documentation that the wires should be 2.5mm.


So the question is: *Can I come to it with 1.5mm wires, or do I really need 2.5mm wires per the documentation ?* I don't have high consumers on the circuits, just spot lights and normal halogen lamps.


Second question is: What do I need extra for Grafik Eye? Do I have to wire his own circuit (the 7th) to power the unit itself ?


I also have to pull a PELV2 wire to the entrance of the apartment, for a wallstation correct?


I am not technical, the guys doing the electrical work at my apartement said they know what to do, *but i want to be sure that they do the right thing*. You know, they sometimes do some unorthodox things.


Thank you!


----------



## oman321

If by referring to 2.5mm and 1.5mm you are referring to 14 and 12 gauge electrical wire then yes you technically are able to use either. In the US 12 gauge is thicker and can handle a higher load, I believe Lutron recommends 12 gauge but I have seen folks wire up with 14 gauge because of the max loads they plan on carrying.


Yes you will need to have pelv wire pulled to the entrance for most wallstations. I believe the only exception is the S1 which uses traditional electrical line. The S1 goes from off to scene 1 and then from any scene to off. If you go with the S1 I would still have the PELV pulled in case of future upgrades to a different wall station.


----------



## Moggie

If you have no more than a 15 amp total load then you can use 14 gauge wires for your lighting so long as you use the same gauge from the electrical distribution box to the GE (or protect the lighting circuit with a 15 amp breaker). I.e you can't mix a 20 amp supply to the GE and 15 amp (rated) lighting circuits and pass code.


BTW 2.5mm core wire is more like 10 gauge. I assume you are referring to the jacket diameter?


----------



## envient

I'm from Europe. In the Grafik Eye Documentation and Diagram it says "It can accept up to two #12 AWG (2.5 mm2) wires". I believe my wires are 1.5 mm2 (at least that's what the electrician said). Not sure about #X AWG.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18655833
> 
> 
> If by referring to 2.5mm and 1.5mm you are referring to 14 and 12 gauge electrical wire then yes you technically are able to use either. In the US 12 gauge is thicker and can handle a higher load, I believe Lutron recommends 12 gauge but I have seen folks wire up with 14 gauge because of the max loads they plan on carrying.
> 
> 
> Yes you will need to have pelv wire pulled to the entrance for most wallstations. I believe the only exception is the S1 which uses traditional electrical line. The S1 goes from off to scene 1 and then from any scene to off. If you go with the S1 I would still have the PELV pulled in case of future upgrades to a different wall station.



I never thought of that, but that's a good idea. Is that code, though, leaving PELV in a box, unconnected?


----------



## trpltongue

Quick but somewhat difficult question.


I replaced a bank of 4 switches with a 2404 in my theater recently. I have a URC MX-810 and MRF-350 that is setup to send IR to the grafik eye via an IR emitter for scene selection and it works perfectly. However, when first walking into the room, it is a bit difficult to find the buttons on the grafik eye in the dark. Has anyone done any entry wall station without pulling PELV? I don't really feel like ripping out sheetrock to add an entry switch, but if there's some sort of easy to implement solution I'd be all for it.


URC has an RF keypad, but it is a full fledged remote and is crazy expensive.


Thanks!


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/18662345
> 
> 
> I never thought of that, but that's a good idea. Is that code, though, leaving PELV in a box, unconnected?



Should not be a problem. Just put a cap on the end of it and you should be fine.


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Masters..

apologize i didnt do the search on this thread properly..

*Question:*

3106-T-WH

What is the easy way to test this equipment -- I have only 7 days to return..

Help me out..


this is the wiring of the lights...i changed my mind and bought grafiq eye


----------



## envient

I am sorry to insist, but I didn't get quite an answer to my question and really need to know because the are planning to close the walls soon.


Will Grafik Eye 3106 work on 1.5 mm2 AWG 14 wiring, or should I change all wiring to 2.5 mm2 AWG 12 (which is pretty costly)?


----------



## trpltongue

envient,


moggie answered your question with specific detail. You then backed it up by posting the note "It can accept up to two #12 AWG (2.5 mm2) wires". If you're wires are 1.5mm that is "up to #12 AWG (2.5mm2) wire". If that's not clear enough you really should discuss with a proper liscensed electrician.


Not trying to be a jerk, but electricity is dangerous for you and your family so it's important to get it right. If there's even a hint of doubt you need to work with a professional.


----------



## trpltongue




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/18665752
> 
> 
> Masters..
> 
> apologize i didnt do the search on this thread properly..
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> 3106-T-WH
> 
> What is the easy way to test this equipment -- I have only 7 days to return..
> 
> Help me out..
> 
> 
> this is the wiring of the lights...i changed my mind and bought grafiq eye



The only way to test is to hook it up to a load and see if it works. If you are handy, you can build a one sided extension cord and wire the unfinished end to the grafik eye, then bench test using a volt meter.


----------



## envient

No trying to contradict him or you, just trying to be 100% sure. You guys are probably more experienced with Lutron than the local licensed electricians I can find in Romania










"It can accept up to two #12 AWG (2.5 mm2) wires" is a tricky sentence. Maybe it refers to the number of wires (maybe it works with only 1 wire), and not to the diameter...Or maybe I am stupid











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/18667062
> 
> 
> envient,
> 
> 
> moggie answered your question with specific detail. You then backed it up by posting the note "It can accept up to two #12 AWG (2.5 mm2) wires". If you're wires are 1.5mm that is "up to #12 AWG (2.5mm2) wire". If that's not clear enough you really should discuss with a proper liscensed electrician.
> 
> 
> Not trying to be a jerk, but electricity is dangerous for you and your family so it's important to get it right. If there's even a hint of doubt you need to work with a professional.


----------



## Moggie

envient, I'm not sure what the Lutron doc means by "can accept up to two 2.5 mm2 wires" because you only want/need a single supply line. So, if you you have a total lighting load greater that 15A then you need a 20A (12 AWG) supply and all your lighting zones should also use 12 gauge wire. If you need less that 15A then the supply can be a single 14 gauge feed and your zones can be also be wired with 14 gauge. 14 gauge is not only cheaper it is much easier to work with.


Side question: you mentioned you are in Romania. Is the household line voltage 110v or 240v?


----------



## Moggie

Passing on some information I learned today: I had reason to order another QS GE unit (for wired install) from an online store and was told that although they would honor the wired price, Lutron have discontinued the wired-only unit and only sell the dual RF/wired units now...


----------



## jetski

I've got a grafic eye 3106 and I'm now looking for a Grafik Eye GRX-IRI to add IR control too it.

The problem is I'm having issues finding locations selling it. Can't even find it on ebay.


Any suggestions?


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/18667069
> 
> 
> The only way to test is to hook it up to a load and see if it works. If you are handy, you can build a one sided extension cord and wire the unfinished end to the grafik eye, then bench test using a volt meter.



Thanks bud....bought a 2 qty 14 gauge wire from home depot with one end plug and one end open (black,white,green)


I am going to do this tomorrow...i am gonna test each zone with 14 gauge wiring



TESTING IS DONE: ALL ZONES WORKING



Tested the GRX today...Works fine..I am not recommending this way of testing of the equipment, since i dont know this is the right way


Connection is simple:

1.Turned off the breaker

2. Bought 2 cables A,B from home depot with one end connector and other end stripped to hot neutral and ground

3. connected the cable A to GE as per their diagram

4. Connected the Cale B to GE zone 1 - hot, Neutral to Neutral, Ground to Ground

In the pic below: Zone 1 is connected to light switch through extension cord (which gets the power through GE)


















Turned on the switch:









Adjusted the dimmer










Checked all the zones, and made sure that all zones are dimmable..











I dont know what else to check...I am not recommending this way, since i dont know this is the right way


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jetski* /forum/post/18674950
> 
> 
> I've got a grafic eye 3106 and I'm now looking for a Grafik Eye GRX-IRI to add IR control too it.
> 
> The problem is I'm having issues finding locations selling it. Can't even find it on ebay.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions?



You may know this, but based on your statement above you might not. Yo do know that the GE already has IR capabilities. You just need line of sight, attach an emitter to it or position an IR repeater in front of it.


In any event here is one source of for a GRX-IRI if you wish to add it as an accessory.

http://www.beverlyhillselectric.com/lutrongrxiri.html 


Ebay would just require persistence as it may come up on occassion.


BTW here is another item which you can look for on Ebay(to expensive from regular retailers). This will also add IR capabilities from a remote location.

http://www.electricalsupplies4less.c...rgreyecem.html


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/18675110
> 
> 
> I dont know what else to check...I am not recommending this way, since i dont know this is the right way



Sathyakamaraj,


Good job testing, seems to me like you did well besides using a meter as previously mentioned


----------



## envient

Romania, 230V.

I need to ask about the consumers amperage now...

Thanks!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moggie* /forum/post/18671150
> 
> 
> envient, I'm not sure what the Lutron doc means by "can accept up to two 2.5 mm2 wires" because you only want/need a single supply line. So, if you you have a total lighting load greater that 15A then you need a 20A (12 AWG) supply and all your lighting zones should also use 12 gauge wire. If you need less that 15A then the supply can be a single 14 gauge feed and your zones can be also be wired with 14 gauge. 14 gauge is not only cheaper it is much easier to work with.
> 
> 
> Side question: you mentioned you are in Romania. Is the household line voltage 110v or 240v?


----------



## envient

15A max per circuit or total per all circuits?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Moggie* /forum/post/18671150
> 
> 
> envient, I'm not sure what the Lutron doc means by "can accept up to two 2.5 mm2 wires" because you only want/need a single supply line. So, if you you have a total lighting load greater that 15A then you need a 20A (12 AWG) supply and all your lighting zones should also use 12 gauge wire. If you need less that 15A then the supply can be a single 14 gauge feed and your zones can be also be wired with 14 gauge. 14 gauge is not only cheaper it is much easier to work with.
> 
> 
> Side question: you mentioned you are in Romania. Is the household line voltage 110v or 240v?


----------



## jetski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18679749
> 
> 
> You may know this, but based on your statement above you might not. Yo do know that the GE already has IR capabilities. You just need line of sight, attach an emitter to it or position an IR repeater in front of it.
> 
> 
> In any event here is one source of for a GRX-IRI if you wish to add it as an accessory.
> 
> http://www.beverlyhillselectric.com/lutrongrxiri.html
> 
> 
> Ebay would just require persistence as it may come up on occassion.
> 
> 
> BTW here is another item which you can look for on Ebay(to expensive from regular retailers). This will also add IR capabilities from a remote location.
> 
> http://www.electricalsupplies4less.c...rgreyecem.html





I've currently got a cat5 line run from the gang box to a single gange for the GRX-IRI near the rack. It's a short 2 ft run used instead of plem wire.

So based off the above statment by oman321, How would you fit the emiter so that it would not be seen on the cover? Is that possable?


----------



## oman321

Some folks have cracked open IR emitters and placed the exposed emitter under the GE cover. Some folks have grinded the GE cover a bit on the inside just to make it as flush as possible.


You can buy and emitter with shell here.

http://www.hometech.com/hts/products...ers/index.html 


You would obviously splice it with the cat5.


----------



## trpltongue




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/18680147
> 
> 
> 15A max per circuit or total per all circuits?



envient, there is only 1 supply line coming to the grafik eye so there is only 1 circuit that the grafik eye is controlling. All the 6 zones are on 1 circuit. That circuit must be 15A or less.


Basically, you run a single hot/neutral/ground from the supply panel to the grafik eye to supply power to it and the fixtures. Then you run a "switch leg" which consists of hot/neutral/ground to each lighting zone. The lighting zone may have 3 or 4 lights on it, but they'll all be tied together and only a single switch leg will come back to the grafik eye.


Hope that helps some.


Russell


----------



## envient

So from the Distribution Panel comes only ONE circuit/cable (Hot/Neutral/Ground) to the Grafik Eye. Then from the Grafik Eye, 6 different cables (Hot/Neutral/Ground) to 6 LOADs.

So from the Distribution Panel to the 6 LOADs there aren't living 6 circuits/cables anymore.

I understand correct now ?


----------



## trpltongue

Basically yes. However, each of the 6 wires H/N/G from the grafik eye can connect to 1 or more individual loads (lights). So you truly have 6 zones, the total of which cannot exceed 15A if using 14G wire and a 15A fuse or 20A if using 12G wire and a 20A fuse. The last thing to consider is the total dimming capacity of the Lutron. I believe (but you need to confirm) that the maximum for any individual zone is 800W, but the total depends on the model of grafikeye. I believe for a 6 zone the total dimming capacity is 2000W, which if you're on a 220V line, would be less than 10A.


Basically, think of the grafik eye as a remote electrical panel without any circuit breakers if that helps?


Hope that helps.


Russell


----------



## Bjelland

My GRX 3106 is on the way!!!!!!!!!


----------



## bikerdans10

New to the forum. Where have you guys purchased your Grafik Eyes from?


Any information would be helpful and appriciated.


Dan


----------



## trpltongue

I purchased my 2404 on ebay for $100







But I'm frugal like that....


----------



## Bjelland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bikerdans10* /forum/post/18731162
> 
> 
> New to the forum. Where have you guys purchased your Grafik Eyes from?
> 
> 
> Any information would be helpful and appriciated.
> 
> 
> Dan



eBay


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bikerdans10* /forum/post/18731162
> 
> 
> Where have you guys purchased your Grafik Eyes from?



Ebay.


The retail price over here is over $AU1000, whereas ebay is less than half of that, even taking in to account exchange rates.


----------



## envient

I just got my 3106 today, EU version. Bought it from ebay US for $399. Brand new


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/18714936
> 
> 
> Basically yes. However, each of the 6 wires H/N/G from the grafik eye can connect to 1 or more individual loads (lights). So you truly have 6 zones, the total of which cannot exceed 15A if using 14G wire and a 15A fuse or 20A if using 12G wire and a 20A fuse. The last thing to consider is the total dimming capacity of the Lutron. I believe (but you need to confirm) that the maximum for any individual zone is 800W, but the total depends on the model of grafikeye. I believe for a 6 zone the total dimming capacity is 2000W, which if you're on a 220V line, would be less than 10A.
> 
> 
> Basically, think of the grafik eye as a remote electrical panel without any circuit breakers if that helps?
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> 
> Russell



Another option is 12 ga wires and a 15A breaker, which is what I've done (the maximum current should be 10 amps at 120 volts).


----------



## jacovn

Does anywan uses ELVI-1000 with LED lamps ?


----------



## CSO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bikerdans10* /forum/post/18731162
> 
> 
> New to the forum. Where do you guys purchase your Grafik Eyes?
> 
> 
> Dan



On the net at Hanks electric


----------



## sathyakamaraj

If someone looking for power booster NGRX-PB-WH -- can go to beay now...looks cheap..

i dont know whats the use clearly..i am having tough time understanding current ongoin installation..i am not gonna buy..


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Sorry guys...I saved my search in Bookmark..looks like I lost it...

I am looking for the 2 Box Installation picture of GE unit.


This link in this thread is for 1 box installation Click 


similar to that, I saw in some where 2 box installation..I cant find it..tired of searchin now...

HELP me Out


----------



## ianmalta

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Don't know if I a posting this question in the right thread.


I am wiring a new place and decided to use 2 Grafik Eyes 3106 CE (as in my country we have 230v) with these 12 zones/channels I am gonna light several different rooms. My question is, if I want to light up only 1 room do I have to make a scene for it? Also if I have a scene on and want to light another room that is not in the scene and need the scene that is on, on can it happen? Is it better if I connect the 2 grafik eyes together or shall I use them seperately?


Thanks


----------



## Bjelland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/18816788
> 
> 
> Sorry guys...I saved my search in Bookmark..looks like I lost it...
> 
> I am looking for the 2 Box Installation picture of GE unit.
> 
> 
> This link in this thread is for 1 box installation Click
> 
> 
> similar to that, I saw in some where 2 box installation..I cant find it..tired of searchin now...
> 
> HELP me Out



There is no need to use two boxes if you use a 3.5" deep box (Raco box#698), there's plenty of room.


----------



## Chiahead

I did a double box using the deep boxes. After reading about how tight the installation could be, and knowing how cramped my outlet boxes usually are, I went with the 2.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17050064 


In this post I have a pic of what I did. It is the only pic I have of it before drywall. 1 box on the theater side, the second box is on the utility side of the basement. Most connections are in the utility side, the theater side will be the connection to the graphic eye. I have not hooked up the eye yet, but I have tested it to make sure it works.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiahead* /forum/post/18836633
> 
> 
> I did a double box using the deep boxes. After reading about how tight the installation could be, and knowing how cramped my outlet boxes usually are, I went with the 2.
> 
> .



Thanks for the link...this is what i was looking for ...i think i saw that thread months ago....


----------



## KKoepp31

Alright guys, I'm officially in the game of trying to score a cheap Grafik Eye on ebay. My super old, slow home computer cost me a 4-zone 3500 series unit yesterday. It went for $76. Crazy.


Anyway, I still think I may be better off with a 6-zone unit as it gives me more options. It will be controlling both a bar and theater area that are joined together in an L shape, so a couple extra zones are probably a good idea. Do most people wire it to a 15A circuit? 14ga could save some money over 12ga, but I probably shouldn't skimp and just use the 12. Also, I plan to have all my equipment in a separate room. I figured I would use a Harmony remote with whatever RF/IR setup necessary to control through walls for that sort of stuff and I'm sure you can make it work with a grafik eye as well, right? That being said, I would still need a switch at the entrance to the room. Does wiring one of those in eat up an entire zone?


----------



## oman321

Good luck on the quest for the 6 zone GE.


The 3500 is slightly different and I cant recall if you need a special controller so you are probably better off.


I think most use 12ga and 20 amp circuit the other way is probably more rare.


Yes you will be able to use a Harmony with either an RF/IR to ir extender. The GE has an IR receiver on it's face so you either need to attach an emitter to it or place a flood emitter somewhere in front of it.


Lastly a switch does not use up a zone, most GE switches are connected via PELV wire and they are added as an accessory. The accesory switch I use with my GE is an S1 which sets the lights to scene 1 and then off from any scene. This switched is wired with regular electrical wire, 12-2 in my case but in this situation it still doesn't use a zone up.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18858893
> 
> 
> The accesory switch I use with my GE is an S1 which sets the lights to scene 1 and then off from any scene. This switched is wired with regular electrical wire, 12-2 in my case but in this situation it still doesn't use a zone up.


*Questions on Remote Wall Station to put at the entrance:*


1. Sorry - I don't know what is S1 Switch. I couldnt find it in google search either.


2. Is it anyway (cheap way) to *convert* the 4 scene Remote control with On/Off switch to Wall station


----------



## ianmalta

Is it ok if you pass the PELV cable and the eletric cable ( one to light a zone) from the same conduit?


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/18859215
> 
> *Questions on Remote Wall Station to put at the entrance:*
> 
> 
> 1. Sorry - I don't know what is S1 Switch. I couldnt find it in google search either.
> 
> 
> 2. Is it anyway (cheap way) to *convert* the 4 scene Remote control with On/Off switch to Wall station


 http://www.dimmers.net/grafik_entrance_controls.asp 


This is the 1S, its been a while so I reffered to it incorrectly should have stated 1S.


Never heard of anyone converting a remote to a wallstation.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ianmalta* /forum/post/18860058
> 
> 
> Is it ok if you pass the PELV cable and the eletric cable ( one to light a zone) from the same conduit?



I would say it is ok, whether this will introduce any problems I don't know.


The PELV has high voltage sheathing that is the reason why you must use it instead of cat 5 cable as it is rated to be in a high voltage box. So I would suppose that the same would apply for a conduit.


----------



## gasbie

Hello my AVS families,

I really need help in wiring my GE 3506. I had my electrician installed six 6" can, four 3" cans and four 4" can in one of my living room. These cans are connected to three dimmer which means that the six 6" can has its dimmer switch, the 3" has its own dimmer switch the 4" cans have its own dimmer switch. When I looked at the grafik eye wiring diagram, it shows a 14/2 coming from a panel which serves as the power source. Afer this is being said, I have a total of three dimmers with five 14/3 (black, white, and bared wire) wire running into the 3 gang box attached to my wall. I'm thinking that three of these wires are four each set of cans (6" cans, 4" cans and 3"cans). Now my question is does it means that the remaining two 14/3 wires serves as the power source? I know that the electrician that wired the can tapped power source from a new by outlet for one the 6" can and tapped another current from another outlet for the 4" can. I know that you twist are bared wire together, all white together, and each black represent each zones. but in the situation where you have two 14/3 wire serving as the source, do i twist the two black wire from the source wire to get the power to the GE iteself? Also, I want to attached my stairways lights to the GE. My stairway lights is installed on a three way dimmer, can I still wire the three way dimmer to the GE so that I can control the stairway light from both the three ways switch and the GE switch. All contribution will be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## oman321

No you cannot twist the 2 blacks together. I would run a new dedicated 20 amp line from the panel to the GE.


Also you cannot wire a regular 3 way dimmer switch to the GE. You will need one of the accessory switches which can provide different scenes. These switches would typically be wired with PELV wire.


----------



## gasbie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18877206
> 
> 
> No you cannot twist the 2 blacks together. I would run a new dedicated 20 amp line from the panel to the GE.
> 
> 
> Also you cannot wire a regular 3 way dimmer switch to the GE. You will need one of the accessory switches which can provide different scenes. These switches would typically be wired with PELV wire.



Oman321

Thanks for the quick response. so what kind of accessories switch can I buy to replace the three way switch and is it going to be connected to the GE? Also, If I run a dedicated 20amp line from the panel to the wall, that means I have to use the yellow wire. Does that mean I have to use the yellow wire for all the lights in other to match up with the wire coming from the panel or the regular white 15 amp is ok?


----------



## oman321

Most accessories connect to the GE via PELV wire. Belden makes a version of that wire as well.


In order to meet code you don't want to mix the different types of wiring. Based on your description it doesn't seem like you are exceeding a 14-2 wires capacity (assuming you are at max. using 60 watt bulbs in each fixture) so technically you would be ok, but perhaps you can simply go with a 15amp power circuit instead to keep the consistency.

http://www.lutron.com/Products/Compo...es/Models.aspx


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

For those who have acoustic paneled walls, with the GE poking through one of them - what have you used to adjust the wall box spacing? Did you add (a) add some sort of spacer on top of the wall box, (b) just use extra long screws between the GE plate and the wall box, (c) have the wall box extend an extra inch (assuming one inch panel) beyond the drywall before mounting to the wall stud?


I have a 4 gang masonry box and GRX-3104 coming in the mail - I'm thinking the wall box may be deep enough that I can just do (c), but wanted to hear what others did.


----------



## Chiahead

Mine is 2 1/4 inches from the stud. 2 layers of 5/8 drywall and 1 inch of treatments.


----------



## gasbie

does anyone know where I can get a class 2 PELV cable?


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gasbie* /forum/post/18885459
> 
> 
> does anyone know where I can get a class 2 PELV cable?



I have the same question.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gasbie* /forum/post/18885459
> 
> 
> does anyone know where I can get a class 2 PELV cable?



Dare I say your local electrical wholesaler ?










If they don't stock it, I'm pretty confident that they'd be able to order it in for you.


----------



## ctviggen

This looks good, but I don't need 1,000 feet:

http://www.libertycable.com/prod_det...tem=LUTRON-WHT


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/18890046
> 
> 
> Dare I say your local electrical wholesaler ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they don't stock it, I'm pretty confident that they'd be able to order it in for you.



Do you have to order 500+ feet of it? When you need less than 50 (or near 30) feet, it seems a waste to have another 470-970 feet sitting around. I was looking for a place to order it in smaller lengths.


----------



## ctviggen

Another problem I have is getting to the local electrical retailer. Most or all of them are open only M-F, and I can never get there during those days.


----------



## gasbie

can somebody help us with this situation. the liberty wire is too expensive. I only need something like 50ft. They are selling the whole reel. Where can I get the wire per feet?


----------



## ctviggen

I've spent quite a bit of time searching and can only find $455 reels of 1000ft. For instance:

http://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Cable-.../dp/B000X9478Y 


Even Walmart has it, but you have to buy an entire reel.


I cannot find any place that sells it even for 250 feet, which would at least bring down the price to a more manageable level.


----------



## ctviggen

Looks like you can get the Lutron cable in 500 foot spools for less money, but it's still over $200:

https://www.mrsupply.com/lutron-graf...-346s-500.html


----------



## ctviggen

Ha! Finally found it:

http://www.hankselectric.com/item171603.ctlg


----------



## envient

*Does anyone know if the Grafik Eye 3100 wallstations (EGRX-4S-WH) are compatible with the Grafik Eye QS?*

I just got a QS unit at an extremely good price, to replace my current 3100, but I don't really like the idea of buying new wallstations (pretty expensive for QS).


----------



## gasbie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/18893628
> 
> 
> Ha! Finally found it:
> 
> http://www.hankselectric.com/item171603.ctlg





hey ctviggen

has someone ever told you that you are special!!!!





















Thanks so much for the providing the link. YOU ARE THE BEST!!!.


----------



## gasbie

Alright guys, I have another situation that needs to be solved. I'm trying to add the lights in my stairways to my GE GRX3506. Currently the light is on a three way dimmer and y'all know that the code requires a switch at the beginning of the stairways and another switch at the end of the stairways so my question would be how can I address this issue in such a way that I wont be violating the code. I was thinking about put the top and bottom light on my GE then add an accessory switch at the top of the stairways since the GE will be installed at the bottom.


Also, how many accessories can I add to one GE and can I interconnect several GEs? Everyone contribution will be appreciated. Thanks


----------



## oman321

I would say that your plan sounds like it meets code.


Here is a link to the manual, which will help you with the unit.

http://files.lutron.com/commercial/3k_Complete.pdf 


I believe you can link up to 8 GE's together with 2 way communication and 3 wallstations per GE unit. If you need more wallstations than that then you would need to add a power supply accessory.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/18894469
> 
> *Does anyone know if the Grafik Eye 3100 wallstations (EGRX-4S-WH) are compatible with the Grafik Eye QS?*
> 
> I just got a QS unit at an extremely good price, to replace my current 3100, but I don't really like the idea of buying new wallstations (pretty expensive for QS).



I would say yes but would double check with lutron to be certain.


----------



## gasbie

Does anyone knows if I will be able to select any six of the six zones of my grafik eye GRX-3506 if install a 4 button wall station or are these wallstations made for one zone. I see that the wall stations only have 4 buttons. Also, how do I wire 3 wall station to one Grafik eye. MY GE only has one spot for the PELV connection. Thanks


----------



## oman321

The GE offers 16 scenes, you will be able to set the GE to respond to one set of scenes. i.e. 1 thru 4 or 5 thru 8 and so on. To wire 3 you simple daisy chain, in other words you wire from one to the next resulting in only one final wire going to the GE.


----------



## gasbie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/18921581
> 
> 
> The GE offers 16 scenes, you will be able to set the GE to respond to one set of scenes. i.e. 1 thru 4 or 5 thru 8 and so on. To wire 3 you simple daisy chain, in other words you wire from one to the next resulting in only one final wire going to the GE.



oman321,

Thanks for the quick response. I don't understand what you meant by "you will be able to set the GE to respond to one set of scenes. " I have 4 lights in the dinning area and 3 in the kitchen, 4 in the hall way. All lights attached to its corresponding zone. I want to install a 4 button switch at each station. So my question is, If I press the switch installed in the dinning area, how will the system know which zone to select and If I press the switch in the kitchen, how will it know the right zone to lit on without powering all lights. Does this require extra programming? Thanks


----------



## oman321

My mistake gasbie, I meant to say that you can set each wallstation to respond to 4 of the 16 scenes available on the GE. So lets say the 1st wallstation can mimic the first 4 scenes, the same as the GE. The next wall station can be set to do scenes 5-8. Each wall station has little tabs to be set in order to address to handle the scenes you want.


----------



## kevo82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/18894469
> 
> *Does anyone know if the Grafik Eye 3100 wallstations (EGRX-4S-WH) are compatible with the Grafik Eye QS?*
> 
> I just got a QS unit at an extremely good price, to replace my current 3100, but I don't really like the idea of buying new wallstations (pretty expensive for QS).



Yous should better stick with Ranias IR...why that much fuss about something you'll never use at 100% of what it does?


And don't bother too much...you won't be moving in too soon


----------



## jazzy0101

I have a 3106 and i am going to have my electrician install it. I had a question though about some led strips i bought. i bouught a bunch from cooler guys. they are basically a tape that you can cut every 3 leds... connect a 3 pin connectore to them and then to a computer power supply. (at least that is my plan) My question is can i then connect it to my 3106? Or does power have to be run through the ge? I cant power the leds directily right? specs on the leds are:Length: 1M (~39")

LEDS: 60

Voltage: 12v DC

Power: 4.8W

Current: 400mA

Viewing Angle: 120

Color Temp:

Connector: 2pin with adapters for standard 3 pin or 4 pin Molex


----------



## Brad Horstkotte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiahead* /forum/post/18879140
> 
> 
> Mine is 2 1/4 inches from the stud. 2 layers of 5/8 drywall and 1 inch of treatments.



Thanks Chiahead, I got my controller and masonry box last week, and installed it over the weekend - only took about 4 hours, a handful of choice curse words, and a few cuts on my hands (man the masonry box edges are sharp, as were all the romex ends). Getting the plastic 3 gang box out was a bit tricky, but not too bad - getting the 4 gang box in was a PITA - I ran the leads through the top openings, might have been easier if I had run them all in through the back instead, but I was concerned that I wouldn't have enough wire length to work with if I had done that.


Even with only 4 zones connected, sure was a tight fit getting the wires to all cooperate - not really looking forward to taking it out to install fabric panels later on, might just work around it.


I did what you suggested, had the wallbox extend out an inch from the drywall face. Hopefully the inspector is OK with that (electrical was already inspected before I put in the Grafik Eye, but final is yet to come, after all the walls are done).


Now to figure out how to program the scenes - is there any discussion of sample scenes for an HT buried in this thread somewhere? Off to search to find out...


----------



## Butch627




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gasbie* /forum/post/18885459
> 
> 
> does anyone know where I can get a class 2 PELV cable?



I picked up regular thermostat cable at the hardware store. It's 18 gauge/5 conductor (PELV is 18 gauge) and should work (I hope) 50ft. was only $14.99


----------



## oman321

Just so you know Butch627, while thermostat cable will work it is not up to code. The reason being is that PELV wire or the similar options have a high voltage sheathing, where as the thermostat wire or cat5 cable only have low voltage sheathing. The high voltage sheathing is necessary when placing that wire in a box with other high voltage wires.


----------



## Robert_S

I am looking at an inline exhaust fan, Fantech, to cycle air between an equipment room and the media room. The Fantech pulls up to 72 Watts and 0.67 amps. The fan is 100% speed controllable.


I want to have this fan turn on/off as part of my Grafik Eye scenes. I also need to reduce the speed of the fan as the full power is too much for what my needs are. I thought of two options...


1. The apparent easy and straightforward approach: Place this fan on one of the Grafik eye zones and control the speed by the zone setting.


2. Use a zone set to full on/off wired to a fan speed controller switch which then is hooked up to the fan.


Thoughts or is this way outside the realm of being possible with a Grafik Eye?


Thanks

Robert


----------



## Chiahead

Robert, I would skip the graphik eye zone for that. Use an attic thermostat.
http://www.amazon.com/Ventamatic-XXA.../dp/B002TYK4A6 


That way if there is heat it will pump it out weather the eye is on or not. The eye makes it manual, where the direct line is forgive and forget. You could put something inline to slow it down too.


In mine, I placed the fan at the end of the duct run, so there was less sound at the source. I did one in the AV closet, and 1 at the projector. Both are on a dedicated line, and the thermostat sits right above the equipment. Also they dump out into my unfinished utility room, so if there is an issue with the inline fan, I can replace them without having to dig into the finished part of the ceiling.


----------



## Robert_S

Michael - that's a good idea, I had not really thought too much about that. Since I will have a DISH PVR in the room and it is always on running the hard drive, the room would indeed get hot during the day. Plus, it would be a cheaper solution.


I read some people who tried those thermostats see large variations in when it turns on/off. For example, if you set it to 80, it may turn on when the room is 85 and off when the room is 75. Have you seen this?


Robert


----------



## Chiahead

Mine is hooked up, but I have no equipment in there yet.

I only tested it by moving the dial to see that it does go on and off.


You can adjust it, have it turn on sooner. Who cares when it goes off as long as your stuff stays cool.


----------



## envient

I am selling the following:

*Grafik Eye 3100 / 6 Zone / 230V Europe (GRX-3106-T-CE-WH)*

Brand New, In Box.

Price: 400 euros (it's around 700 euros in Europe, see www.onidserv.com for lowest price)

*2 x EGRX-4S-WH Wallstations*

Brand New, In Box.

Price: 230 euros for both (around 150 euros each in stores, so 300 euro both)

*GRX-IT-WH Remote Control*

Brand New, In Box.

Price: 40 euros (around 80 euros in stores)


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

If anyone is looking for a 24 zone Grafik Eye, check eBay for a steal (not my listing, just passing it on).


----------



## KKoepp31




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brad Horstkotte* /forum/post/18964089
> 
> 
> If anyone is looking for a 24 zone Grafik Eye, check eBay for a steal (not my listing, just passing it on).



I'm pretty sure I see the one you are talking about. What is involved in installing and operating one of these? Does it run just the same as the 6 or 4 zone units? I'm having a hard time finding any sort of manual on it. I don't need 24 zones, but for the price of a 6 zone unit I could probably find a couple ways to expand.


----------



## Brad Horstkotte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KKoepp31* /forum/post/18966302
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure I see the one you are talking about. What is involved in installing and operating one of these? Does it run just the same as the 6 or 4 zone units? I'm having a hard time finding any sort of manual on it. I don't need 24 zones, but for the price of a 6 zone unit I could probably find a couple ways to expand.



Yeah I'm not really familiar with that line, but the eBay listing does have a link to the Lutron manual for that line. I already bought and installed a 4 zone, which is enough for me - but if I hadn't, I'd probably be all over that, and get stoopid with the extra zones.


----------



## Waynedude

Just FYI, The 24 zone GE is just a controller for a dimming panel (large box placed in a remote location containing the dimming boards). It cannot control a light directly (Like the 2, 3, 4, 6 zone GE units), but requires a dimming panel. Once you price the dimming panels, you might have second thoughts on what a bargain it is..


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Quick Question:

GRX 3106 will be mounted inside Raco 698

GRX 3106(@inside room) will be connected to NTGRX-4S (@ entrance)

NTGRX-4S will be connected to GRX-IRI (in Closet)

I am thinking to use GRX-CBL-346S to connect 3106 to NTGRX to IRI


Question is: Somewhere I read I cant run low voltage cable into RACO box...what should I do? Help me out...


----------



## oman321

You are fine running the GRX-CBL-346S into the Raco. It is the equivalent to PELV and has 300v rated sheath which allows for it to be placed in a high voltage box. You are good to go sathyakamaraj.

http://www.onidserv.com/resources/lu..._nonplenum.pdf


----------



## raZorTT

Hi guys,


Can anyone tell me what sort of voltages the GE QS is expecting when you wire up an IR emitter to the GE? I can control the GE with my harmony 1000 when pointing at the GE IR sensor. I can control it using an IR repeater if I place a bug/flasher in front of the GE IR sensor.


However when I wire a cable with a 3.5mm jack on one end into the GE IR posts nothing works. I have checked the continuity of the cable and it is fine. The voltage down the cable does change when the repeater is receiving commands and passing them on.


This is the IR repeater I am using.


Any tips would be greatly appreciated.


Cheers,

Simon


----------



## jazzy0101

Ive been trying to search for this answer but havent found it here but im sure ive missed it since it probably is commonplace. I have the 3106 and i want to control 3 rows of can lights, and then i have several led strips from cooler guys. I have about 15 or so. What is the best way to connect them to the ge? They are low voltage, and i know mixing loads is not good. Id like to have the remaining 3 zones i have left be for these leds. My electrician said we could probably use a transformer but i have also read i might need a special loutron part? Im sorry im confused and just dont want to ruin the panel. Any help will be greatly appreciated.


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Tired of waiting for low price in ebay....

Also i was messing around the IR flasher under 3106...got tired of it too..not that smart to install it..so


Ordered GRX-IRI + NTGRX-4S wall station + 50' GRX-CBL-346S cable..


Cant wait for the final installation


----------



## envient




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/18953837
> 
> 
> I am selling the following:
> 
> *Grafik Eye 3100 / 6 Zone / 230V Europe (GRX-3106-T-CE-WH)*
> 
> Brand New, In Box.
> 
> Price: 400 euros (it's around 700 euros in Europe, see www.onidserv.com for lowest price)
> 
> *2 x EGRX-4S-WH Wallstations*
> 
> Brand New, In Box.
> 
> Price: 230 euros for both (around 150 euros each in stores, so 300 euro both)
> 
> *GRX-IT-WH Remote Control*
> 
> Brand New, In Box.
> 
> Price: 40 euros (around 80 euros in stores)



Still up for sale. Grab a bargain!


----------



## ctviggen

Do I have a broken NTGRX-4S wallstation? I have this daisy chained via the correct cable to an IR "wallstation" and then to a 3004 controller. I've verified the cabling multiple times. If I select one of the four scene buttons on the wallstation, the appropriate LED lights up. However, I cannot get the wallstation to go into setup mode. There are two buttons to press (off and the first button) for three seconds, and then the LEDs should start cycling. On my unit, the LEDs never cycle, regardless of how long I press the two buttons. Is my unit broken? My controller is assigned an address, and the addresses of the IR and wallstation are different.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/19051195
> 
> 
> Do I have a broken NTGRX-4S wallstation? I have this daisy chained via the correct cable to an IR "wallstation" and then to a 3004 controller. I've verified the cabling multiple times. If I select one of the four scene buttons on the wallstation, the appropriate LED lights up. However, I cannot get the wallstation to go into setup mode. There are two buttons to press (off and the first button) for three seconds, and then the LEDs should start cycling. On my unit, the LEDs never cycle, regardless of how long I press the two buttons. Is my unit broken? My controller is assigned an address, and the addresses of the IR and wallstation are different.



It was operator error. I had double checked all wiring outside of the 3004. I then checked the wiring inside the 3004 and one of the PELV wires was not connected to the termination block.


----------



## zryder

Hello everyone.

Hopefully this is a quick and dumb thing, but I can't seem to find a solution.

I am helping a friend do a home theater install, and he has a lutron 3106 6 zone light controller. The controller is running various zone's of halogen can lights above the theater.

Everything works as i would hope it would, powering on, and off, controlling the zones, and the lights all dim.. However, they never seem to dim all that far.


I have adjusted the LE to as low as I think they go, with no impact. the LED's on each zone only have the lowest LED lit.


Any idea how to get these to dim to darker levels? Thanks guys.


----------



## CdnTiger

Hi all. I have what is probably a pretty dumb question. I recently received what was listed as a GRX-MR-6 and it's not quite what I was expecting. It has 6 zone connection terminals on the back of the unit, but zones 5 & 6 have a "Do not use" sticker beside them. Under the translucent cover, there are only 4 zones.


So I was shipped the MR-4 version instead of the MR-6, or am I missing something?


----------



## oman321

That's unusual, a 4 zone unit does not have the 5th &6th zones like that. A 4 zone unit simply has 4 switch controls. I would contact your seller and see what the deal is. If you were sold a defective unit thru ebay you can put a claim in with ebay.


----------



## sathyakamaraj

 http://www.onidserv.com/resources/lu..._nonplenum.pdf 

http://www.scpcat5e.com/cables/contr..._lutron-wh.pdf 


whats the difference between the above two cables..i received the second one...but i ordered the first one...


both are same??


----------



## Jedi

...it appears the one received is four 18 ga solid core copper conductors instead of stranded. You might check over the phone with the vendor and make certain the outer jacket is rated for high voltage service making it suitable for use within the confines of the GE box. Use red/black for low voltage power and white/green for MUX signal. The pull cord is good to have, especially if you will be pulling solid core wire.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/19091529
> 
> 
> You might check over the phone with the vendor and make certain the outer jacket is rated for high voltage service making it suitable for use within the confines of the GE box.



Hanks Electric is causing me trouble from day 1 -- I will talk to them and make sure about it..


Just to know before


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/19091529
> 
> 
> ...it appears the one received is four 18 ga solid core copper conductors instead of stranded



Received wire is 4 Conductor Wire + 1 Drain Wire

18 gauge wires with 7/26 - Its not solid wire ( Correct ? )



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/19091529
> 
> 
> The pull cord is good to have, especially if you will be pulling solid core wire.



what is meant by pull cord ??


----------



## Jedi

...I missed the strand count in glancing at the spec sheet. Stranded has better flexibility. The pull cord is a synthetic fiber cable having good pull strength, usually white nylon or polyester strands, within the bundle of conductors.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/19092423
> 
> 
> ...I missed the strand count in glancing at the spec sheet. Stranded has better flexibility. The pull cord is a synthetic fiber cable having good pull strength, usually white nylon or polyester strands, within the bundle of conductors.



oohhh..now i know ..but its not available in the both the cables..thanks for the info..i sent email to hanks electric already..lets see...


----------



## sathyakamaraj

GRX3000 inside the Media Room - Wall station - right behind the GRX mounted wall ( Entrance ) - GRX IRI at the Closet

*Option 1:
*Without Wirenuts









*Option 2:
*With Wirenuts









*GRX Mounting* -- Masonry Box RAco 698 - Double Box Installation
*NTGRX Mounting* -- Home Depot









*GRX-IRI Mounting* ---*???*

*Questions:*

1. Option 1 or Option 2 or Both are wrong

2. PELV cable wiring needs to be run through conduit?? ( run through attic from room to closet equipment rack

3. GRX-IRI mounting -- best way to mount in wall...Clean installation with less work??


----------



## oman321

1. Both seem fine, 1 would be a lot cleaner. Each connection can typically receive 2 wires so you should be fine.


2. No conduit necessary, pelv can be run the same as romex or cat5. Just don't install in such a way that you can hang something from it in the attic.


3. GRX IRI installed into a box just like the NTGRX. Existing work box.


Good luck.


----------



## Jedi

....I would be inclined to use black for common and red for hot on your power leads, maybe others more experienced can chime in as to what is conventional.


----------



## oman321

In this applacation I wouldn't be to concerned. In any event though for high voltage wiring red or black can be power. You will find a red conductor in a 12-3 or 14-3 wire which is typically used in a 3way switch application (in which case the power goes between either conductor) or in 240volt circuit (in which case both conductors are powered).


Nice for you to notice that though.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/18894469
> 
> *Does anyone know if the Grafik Eye 3100 wallstations (EGRX-4S-WH) are compatible with the Grafik Eye QS?*



No, they are not compatible. QS uses a different bus protocol.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jazzy0101* /forum/post/18927935
> 
> 
> I have a 3106 and i am going to have my electrician install it. I had a question though about some led strips i bought. i bouught a bunch from cooler guys. they are basically a tape that you can cut every 3 leds... connect a 3 pin connectore to them and then to a computer power supply. (at least that is my plan) My question is can i then connect it to my 3106? Or does power have to be run through the ge? I cant power the leds directily right? specs on the leds are:Length: 1M (~39")
> 
> LEDS: 60
> *Voltage: 12v DC*
> *Power: 4.8W*
> 
> Current: 400mA
> 
> Viewing Angle: 120
> 
> Color Temp:
> 
> Connector: 2pin with adapters for standard 3 pin or 4 pin Molex



No, no, and no.


The PC power supply is an ELV load, and the GE doesn't handle it (you can probably get an adapter).


You can't power the LEDs directly because they are 12VDC devices.


You can't power the LEDs directly because they they only draw 4.8W and the GE requires a minimum of 25W.



I'm all for DIY, but you have to have at least a rudimentary understanding of electricity to play in this sandbox.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zryder* /forum/post/19052993
> 
> 
> Hello everyone.
> 
> Hopefully this is a quick and dumb thing, but I can't seem to find a solution.
> 
> I am helping a friend do a home theater install, and he has a lutron 3106 6 zone light controller. The controller is running various zone's of halogen can lights above the theater.
> 
> Everything works as i would hope it would, powering on, and off, controlling the zones, and the lights all dim.. However, they never seem to dim all that far.
> 
> 
> I have adjusted the LE to as low as I think they go, with no impact. the LED's on each zone only have the lowest LED lit.



Sounds to me like you have a defective unit. But first say what the total load is on each of the zones that won't dim. GE has a minimum of 25W.


----------



## WannaTheater

Hi all,


After being so careful about all my wiring, apparently the drywall guys were not...











As you can see, they routered into my PELV cable.... in the worst possible spot.... Had they given me a few more inches, I would be OK.


I assume this is OK, but wanted to see if anyone else has done this: Can each of the 4 wires (and the ground) be extended by crimping to standard wire connectors? I can also encase the 4 wires in shrink tubing.


Or is there some form of odd capacitance/inductance/resistance/impedence/ohms law/farradays law, etc, that would make this method unacceptable.


Thanks!


----------



## sathyakamaraj

I assume this wiring is *going to* either Wall Station or IRI Interface.

JMO,for my eyes -- if you cut at that spot - and connect it to wall station and install it - push it inside the box..i assume you are ok in the length...


Expert can say about the connectivity direct connection is must or not..


Just in case if you need short piece of cable - lemme know : I can dig in my tool box : I just finished mine yesterday...GRX 3000 + Wall station + IRI interface..


----------



## WannaTheater

This is in the theater room, for connection to Lutron NTGRX-4S.

It looks like it will work, but I need another inch as this box will be extended through an inch thick acoustical panel on the wall.


It is so very close... but just won't make it.


sathyakamaraj - Thanks for the offer for the wire. I still have a few feet.


----------



## WannaTheater

My proposed solution for each wire... popped the metal connector out of a standard red wire connector:


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Dead & Alive...Didnt go to room for the last 6 weeks atleast...


Finally Installed Grafik Eye Systems


Wall Station at the Entrance










GRX 3000 inside the room










Also I installed GRX IR Interface in the closet


All the wiring went ok??? I dont know
*Because:

Only Issue : today when I change the scenes from the wall control - power tripped.*
_Do I need to wait for certain time between changing Scenes?? I pressed continuously scene 1,2,3...then power tripped...
_

Anyone thinks that line is short circuited...?? its running in a 20A breaker line. My load calculation is still under 16 A..


----------



## sathyakamaraj

by the way : As per Lutron Manual : Connected Load be atleast 25W.

3 light zones - dont have anything connected right now...you think it cause the unit to be tripped?


----------



## will1383

Hi All.


I have a 3104, a 3106, and 4 wall stations connected to the system. I need to reset which grafik eyes are "listening" to my wall stations. To make them listen, you go to each wall station and press the scene 1 and off buttons together for 3 seconds, which causes the lights to cycle. Then, you go to the grafik eye, press and hold scene 1 button until all 4 of the scene lights flash together.


But, I want to change what is listening to which wall station, so I figured if a grafik eye was currently listening to a wall station, I could put that wall station into setup mode, go to the grafik eye and hold the scene 1 button until the lights stop flashing.


But, that doesn't happen. It seems I don't have a way to disallow the communications. Is there a way to do this? If not, how do I reset my grafik eyes and just set up all the communications again from scratch, and have the desired configuration?


Thanks in advance,

will


----------



## sathyakamaraj

I have been using it for the last one week - GRX didnt trip this time.

But when I turn off - after all the lights turns off - I hear sound from GRX , I dont know how to explain..it is just one sound...


----------



## oman321

My unit makes a click sound when it is shut down.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/19214287
> 
> 
> My unit makes a click sound when it is shut down.



Thanks..i am good then...

I still can't figr out why power tripped last week. ( didnt happen after that )


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/19214287
> 
> 
> My unit makes a click sound when it is shut down.



Both of mine make a click sound, which sounds like a relay clicking open or shut inside them.


----------



## gasbie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/19210855
> 
> 
> I have been using it for the last one week - GRX didnt trip this time.
> 
> But when I turn off - after all the lights turns off - I hear sound from GRX , I dont know how to explain..it is just one sound...



Did you run your power from the panel to your grafik eye? Also, how many accessories are connected to the grafik eye. The max you can have is three. If You are connecting more than three, then you need a booster.


----------



## Waynedude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* /forum/post/19210855
> 
> 
> I have been using it for the last one week - GRX didnt trip this time.
> 
> But when I turn off - after all the lights turns off - I hear sound from GRX , I dont know how to explain..it is just one sound...



GE's have a relay which powers up and down the internal dimmers. When the lights fade to off, the relay opens with a faint "thunk". This also happens when first turned on. It is no problem.


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gasbie* /forum/post/19235820
> 
> 
> Did you run your power from the panel to your grafik eye? Also, how many accessories are connected to the grafik eye. The max you can have is three. If You are connecting more than three, then you need a booster.



I guess i have to take everything down...it worked fine 3 days before...today tripped 3-4 times back to back.


Power is running from the Breakerpanel downstairs directly conneccted to grx

i have GRX + Wall Station + IRI ( 3 Units )


I am a mech engr, i like to blame everything on elec.engr.

Well, Is there is any limitation in the operation of GRX Unit ? what will happen if you make One Scene to Dead load (means all the zones are off)? right now I have only 2 zones with lights, rest 4 are not connected with lights. I couldn't find anywhere in google search regarding GRX Trip failure...
















I couldnt jump to next build process...stuck here


----------



## oman321

Well, double check the wiring on the GRX and be certain that nothing is loose. You have low voltage going to the wall station and IRI correct? So I can't imagine that being the problem but double check those connections of course. Finally double check the circuit breaker connections and possibly replace that circuit breaker. Just like anything else mechanical it can fail or be faulty.


Are you by chance using an arc fault circuit breaker?


----------



## sathyakamaraj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/19306823
> 
> 
> Are you by chance using an arc fault circuit breaker?



Low Voltage is going to wall stations - YES


Are you by chance using an arc fault circuit breaker? -- I think YES, I will double check it....Its not the right one to install (20A breaker)


----------



## oman321

It should be easily identifiable by the white pig tail wire.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1 


It may be the right one and according to code it may be required. It used to only be required in bedrooms if recall correctly but now they have moved towards all finished living spaces. In any event they are sensitive, and where you are using a device with relays and low voltage connections it may be working against you. I would personally swap it out with a regular circuit breaker and see if that solves your troubles.


----------



## Jim S.

When at a lighting dealer today, I was getting steered away from a 6 zone GE to a Lightolier set up. The reason was that if a GE zone no longer works, there's nothing you can do about it while a Lightolier zone can be replaced. Never thought about that. What do you guys do if one of your GE zones no longer works?


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim S.* /forum/post/19314215
> 
> 
> When at a lighting dealer today, I was getting steered away from a 6 zone GE to a Lightolier set up. The reason was that if a GE zone no longer works, there's nothing you can do about it while a Lightolier zone can be replaced. Never thought about that. What do you guys do if one of your GE zones no longer works?



I guess if you're only using 5 of the 6 zones on a 3106, then you just change to that 'spare' zone.










I just wonder how much the lightolier zone costs to replace compared to a GE.


----------



## WannaTheater

Hi All,


I just hooked up 1 zone of a 3106 that I purchased off ebay, and all works fine. I then hooked up a NTGRX-4S scene controller, which I cannot get to do anything.


1) Where are the DIP switches on the 3106 that the documentation references?? For the life of me, I cannot find them.

2) When I hooked up the NTGRX-4S, I only used 4 wires - Should anything be done with the unshielded metal wire in the PELV jacket?


Thanks!


----------



## WannaTheater

AHA... I think I figured it out.... They eBayer sent me a Grafik Eye RA installation manual. I just found the 3016 manual (not RA) which doesn't reference DIPs.


But my second question still stands.... Any connection for the unshielded wire braid?


----------



## oman321

If I recall correctly, you only need to worry about the drain if you have two or more accessories.


----------



## Jim S.

I just wonder how much the lightolier zone costs to replace compared to a GE.[/quote]


The Lightolier was about $250 for the control unit and $135 for each zone.


----------



## mgoetze

Hi All,

It's time to connect my URC MRF-350 to my GE 3106. I ran CAT 5 wire between the two devices and plan to splice an IR flasher at the GE end and a 3.5mm mono plug at the end of the IR transmitter (MRF-350)


Questions

1. Is there any way around having to affix an IR Flasher to the front of the GE? It doesn't look that great. I see that there are LV connections on the back of the GE, but I believe these are just for accessories. Are there any alternatives


2. When connecting CAT5 to the 2 conductor IR flasher wire, do I just pick 2 wires in the CAT 5 cable and ignore the other 6? Should I use any specific color, etc.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Jedi

1. Lutron sells an IR interface device, called GRX-IRI that accepts an emitter flasher signal and converts it to the low voltage signal that is in turn hard wired into the rear low voltage singal imput of your 3106. You can install the GRX-IRI somewhere out of sight and avoid having the flasher visibile.


2. Any two cat-5 twisted pair wires will do, however, make sure you maintain the correct polarity between the plug and the emitter (pair the same two colors between URC internal wires and cat-5 wire on both the plug end and the emitter end).


----------



## Chiahead

GRX-IRI. It fits a single gang box. You have an IR flasher hit it, then use PELV wire to conenct the GRX-IRI to the 3106 unit. It uses the LV connections you mentioned on the back of the 3106.


I have purchased this exact setup, but have not connected the GRX-IRI yet.


----------



## mgoetze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiahead* /forum/post/19320262
> 
> 
> GRX-IRI. It fits a single gang box. You have an IR flasher hit it, then use PELV wire to conenct the GRX-IRI to the 3106 unit. It uses the LV connections you mentioned on the back of the 3106.
> 
> 
> I have purchased this exact setup, but have not connected the GRX-IRI yet.



This is very interesting - I Think this will satisfy my issue of not having to put a flasher on the front of the GE.


One question though - I ran CAT5 from the GE 3106 4 gang box back to my rack. I would like to place the GRX-IRI in my equipment rack and connect it to the GE using CAT 5. Its about 60' of wire. Will this work and if so, would I just put two wires in each of the LV connections on the back of the GE (example the blue and white/blue cable would go in one hole, etc.)


Mark


----------



## oman321

It will probably work to make the connection, however it's not up to code. Your not supposed to put high voltage and low voltage in the same box. The pelv cable has high voltage sheathing and that is why you can use it.


----------



## Moggie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321* /forum/post/19321430
> 
> 
> It will probably work to make the connection, however it's not up to code. Your not supposed to put high voltage and low voltage in the same box. The pelv cable has high voltage sheathing and that is why you can use it.



Technically this is correct, however the workaround is to wrap the low voltage wires with PVC tape inside the box -- not guaranteed to pass code, but I read on some electrician discussion forum that this was ok since the insulation value of PVC tape is rated 600v.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgoetze* /forum/post/19320168
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> Questions
> 
> 1. Is there any way around having to affix an IR Flasher to the front of the GE? It doesn't look that great. I see that there are LV connections on the back of the GE, but I believe these are just for accessories. Are there any alternatives



I actually used a bare bones IR flasher that I routed in behind the front face plate of my 3106, and with a little bit of fiddling around, I used a dremel type tool to grind a recess in to the face plate so that it wouldn't bulge.


A whole lot cheaper than buying something special, which results in another hole in the wall.


----------



## cotterpin

I was wondering if others have encountered or have any ideas about how to reduce/eliminate interference on a plasma TV screen caused by a GrafikEye GRX-3106. We have a GrafikEye GRX-3106 on our kitchen lights and a separate Wall Control NT-GRX-4S on the other side of the room. When the lights are on, I see interference on both of our plasma TVs located elsewhere in the house (Panasonic 50" TH50PZ800U) in the form of red and green lines moving through the picture. When we turn the lights off, the lines go away. I see the lines even when the cable box is turned off and the TV screen is blank so I think it is coming through the house wiring. I have put noise filtering (EMI/RFI) power strips on both the TVs and on the cable box connected to the TVs with no improvement.

Is there something that I can do to eliminate this noise?


----------



## Waynedude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim S.* /forum/post/19317666
> 
> 
> I just wonder how much the lightolier zone costs to replace compared to a GE.



The Lightolier was about $250 for the control unit and $135 for each zone.[/quote]





GE vs Lightolier..


The lightolier takes one gang/zone + keypad. So a 6 zone GE takes 4 gangs, a six zone Lightolier takes 7 gangs.


That is the most dramatic example. If a zone on a LOL goes out, you just change that zone dimmer. A zone on a GE goes out, you get a new GE.


Your prices are way too high. The keypad should cost $125 and each zone around $65.


The Lightolier uses all standard 120 V wire. You can distribute the zone dimmers wherever you want, and keypads anywhere you want, only connecting them with a single standard wire. You can even have the dimmers on different phases with no problem.


GE capacity is 2000W total for 4 to 6 zone. The Lightolier are 600W each (must be derated when ganged together) and are available in 1000, 1500, 2000W versions. So a 4 zone Lightolier ganged together must be derated to 500/400/400/500 or 1800W vs 2000W for GE. doing a 6 zone would get you 2600W vs the GE at 2000W.


The GE interface is more intuitive and elegant. The zone lights are hidden, the Lightolier has them on each dimmer, always visible (you can program brightness). On the GE, you adjust a scene and it auto remembers, on the Lightolier you have to program the scenes by pushing a hidden button on each dimmer, then the scene button. Less intuitive.


Anyway.. enough on the differences.. I use both all the time.


Cheers,

Wayne


Hope this helps..


----------



## Jedi

...I wish to install a simple 2 button wallstation in my dedicated theater room compatible with my GRX-3000 series controller. I want backlighted buttons, but need their brown plate color for decor reasons. A see-Touch SG two button non-insert should work, but I'm concerned the brown color keys would pass insufficent light (via the engraved text). I am considering ordering a white color unit with standard text engraving, and then use the white buttons together with a brown exterior plate. Does anyone know if I can order the wallstation directly configured this way? Failing that, is it possible to jointly order a replacement plate in brown -- don't really need the buttons, just the plate. Any idea how costly the replacement option would be? Or would perhaps a brown unit together with white replacement buttons be wiser?


----------



## envient

Could some please advise on how to mount the Grafik Eye metal backbox on a rigips / plasterboard wall ? Does it require any clamps ?


----------



## llj

Probably go with 4 zone GE for my HT. Probably go with single RF remote for entire HT. Single wall switch/keypad directly outside the HT to meet code etc.


Don't want to mount GE on wall because I don't think it will work with decor.


HT has equipment cabinet with face on HT wall. I could locate GE inside equipment cabinet.

+ GE accessible inside HT for easy adjustment, viewing, etc.

- Mixing HV and LV wiring inside equipment cabinet not ideal.

- Concerned GE switching noise might couple into audio/video cables.


Directly behind HT is a large wiring closet. GE could be located in wiring closet.

- GE not accessible, not viewable inside HT.

+ HV, LV wiring easily separable.

+ Wiring more accessible. More futureproof.


I'm inclined to go with wiring closet location to reduce risks and ease of installation but am concerned about the loss of access while inside HT.


I know that the GE can be fully controlled via the wireless, at least at the user level.


Its about a 50 foot walk from the HT around to the wiring closet. For setup, etc its somewhat inconvenient.


Can somebody who has lived with one of these little beasties for a while comment?


Thanks.


----------



## jtymann

It appears that it is a sad day for my GRX-3006. It is unresponsive after a short occurred in one of the light fixtures. I bought it used years ago, so I'm not even sure how old that model is, but it is very similar to the GRX-3106


( Note to self... it' probably a good idea to turn the breaker off when changing damaged bulbs on a dimmer circuit







)


Since the short, it appears dead / unresponsive and nothing I've tried has made any difference.


I'm about to call Lutron, but I'm wondering if anyone knows any other resources for repairing a Grafik Eye. Or is Lutron my best bet?


----------



## ZitoMD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/19315539
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I just hooked up 1 zone of a 3106 that I purchased off ebay, and all works fine. I then hooked up a NTGRX-4S scene controller, which I cannot get to do anything.
> 
> 
> 1) Where are the DIP switches on the 3106 that the documentation references?? For the life of me, I cannot find them.
> 
> 2) When I hooked up the NTGRX-4S, I only used 4 wires - Should anything be done with the unshielded metal wire in the PELV jacket?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The DIP switches are only found on the Wallstation not the GE. In the setup of the GE you set the unit address via the Master Raise/Lower and the Delay Raise/Lower buttons. I bring this up because if it was changed from the default of "A-" then you need to assign the remote station to talk to the GE unit. If you are not using RS-232 or more than one GE on the same PELV link, then the simplistic fix would be to revert the GR back to the default address. Otherwise follow the programming instructions to assign the Wallstation to the GE. Press and hold the Scene 1 and Off buttons for about 3 seconds, then once the LEDs start to Cycle go to the GE and press and hold the Scene 1 button on the GE until all its LEDs start to flash. Then back to the wallstation and press the Scene 1 and Off until the LEDs stop flashing. If all is well the Wallstation is not set to talk to the GE. If you want to have the Scene LEDs track on the GE and the Wallstation then you would need to repeat the steps but reverse the devices in the steps previous.


----------



## ZitoMD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/19347080
> 
> 
> ...I wish to install a simple 2 button wallstation in my dedicated theater room compatible with my GRX-3000 series controller. I want backlighted buttons, but need their brown plate color for decor reasons. A see-Touch SG two button non-insert should work, but I'm concerned the brown color keys would pass insufficent light (via the engraved text). I am considering ordering a white color unit with standard text engraving, and then use the white buttons together with a brown exterior plate. Does anyone know if I can order the wallstation directly configured this way? Failing that, is it possible to jointly order a replacement plate in brown -- don't really need the buttons, just the plate. Any idea how costly the replacement option would be? Or would perhaps a brown unit together with white replacement buttons be wiser?



You should have more than enough light through the buttons when you order the brown unit. You can order the device in Brown and get the default buttons engraved (Use EGN on the end of the model number.) then when your ready order a replacement engraved button kit from Lutron in either white or brown whatever your choice.


----------



## ZitoMD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cotterpin* /forum/post/19336768
> 
> 
> I was wondering if others have encountered or have any ideas about how to reduce/eliminate interference on a plasma TV screen caused by a GrafikEye GRX-3106. We have a GrafikEye GRX-3106 on our kitchen lights and a separate Wall Control NT-GRX-4S on the other side of the room. When the lights are on, I see interference on both of our plasma TVs located elsewhere in the house (Panasonic 50" TH50PZ800U) in the form of red and green lines moving through the picture. When we turn the lights off, the lines go away. I see the lines even when the cable box is turned off and the TV screen is blank so I think it is coming through the house wiring. I have put noise filtering (EMI/RFI) power strips on both the TVs and on the cable box connected to the TVs with no improvement.
> 
> Is there something that I can do to eliminate this noise?



I would actually start looking at your lighting in the Kitchen. Do you have any Low-Voltage lighting? The GRAFIK Eye has built in EMI suppression, while it is not perfect, it does go a long way. However, specifically Magnetic Low-Voltage lighting uses transformers which depending on where they are made and the quality, I have see many installation cause this type of problem. Changing the Transformer to a higher quality or better yet a Electronic Transformer usually helps.


----------



## ZitoMD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *llj* /forum/post/19510049
> 
> 
> Probably go with 4 zone GE for my HT. Probably go with single RF remote for entire HT. Single wall switch/keypad directly outside the HT to meet code etc.
> 
> 
> Don't want to mount GE on wall because I don't think it will work with decor.
> 
> 
> HT has equipment cabinet with face on HT wall. I could locate GE inside equipment cabinet.
> 
> + GE accessible inside HT for easy adjustment, viewing, etc.
> 
> - Mixing HV and LV wiring inside equipment cabinet not ideal.
> 
> - Concerned GE switching noise might couple into audio/video cables.
> 
> 
> Directly behind HT is a large wiring closet. GE could be located in wiring closet.
> 
> - GE not accessible, not viewable inside HT.
> 
> + HV, LV wiring easily separable.
> 
> + Wiring more accessible. More futureproof.
> 
> 
> I'm inclined to go with wiring closet location to reduce risks and ease of installation but am concerned about the loss of access while inside HT.
> 
> 
> I know that the GE can be fully controlled via the wireless, at least at the user level.
> 
> 
> Its about a 50 foot walk from the HT around to the wiring closet. For setup, etc its somewhat inconvenient.
> 
> 
> Can somebody who has lived with one of these little beasties for a while comment?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I would opt for the Wiring Closet for all the pros listed. Once you have "tweaked" your scenes to your liking, you most likely will never have to touch the GRAFIK Eye.


----------



## gasbie

I see that alot of people on this thread have not been emphasizing on Lutron Grafik EYE QS Wireless, any reason? Just curious. I know the QS has a time clock which can be added to other grafik eye via PRG interface. QS has a metadata and wireless capabilities, who really cares. lol. What is the main difference between the regular grafik eye and QS wireless? How easy are they to integrate with security system?


----------



## HT_SoulMan

I have no idea. I have read alot of this thread and visited Lutron.com and I'm still confused on the IR Interfaces. I'm currently wiring my HT Room for six zones. The QS or 3106 are the ones I'm currently looking at. Installation of these main units is straight forward, but when it comes to the interfaces I get confused. I also want to incorporated a curtain/drape system to the main unit as well and operate it with a remote control.


----------



## envient

In case of a short circuit on one of the zones wired to the grafik eye, does the distribution panel circuit breaker (10A) does its job, or the grafik eye units gets burnt ?


----------



## Wavy

I am ready to purchase a 3104. Any recommendations for a good online vendor?


Thank,

Wavy


----------



## HT_SoulMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wavy* /forum/post/19937115
> 
> 
> I am ready to purchase a 3104. Any recommendations for a good online vendor?
> 
> 
> Thank,
> 
> Wavy



Checkout Ebay.. I saw a few used ones for a decent price..


----------



## HT_SoulMan

just purchased a used Grafik Eye 6-zone (3106) on ebay. I'm planning on using five zones (4 zones have wire already run and 1 zone for recessed lights have the cans already installed). I downloaded the free Grafik Eye software and entered all of the information needed for setup:


Zone 1 - Recessed Cans - Undersoffit (5).. Cans already installed..

Zone 2 - Recessed Cans - Front Screen (3)..

Zone 3 - Rope Light - Riser(1)

Zone 4 - Rope Light - Ceiling(1)

Zone 5 - Scones - (3)


Wattages are acceptable for a 20A run to the circuit panel.


As stated earlier, I want to incorporate a curtain system on the stage. If I can get a RS232 or something to connect to my AV Receiver and have the lights flash during a heavy bass sequence, I'm interested as well..


----------



## WannaTheater

Thought I would ask the Lutron experts....


For my 3106, I need to twist 8 x 12 gauge neutral wires together (6 zones, plus the supply neutral, plus the jumper to the unit).


I am pretty sure this is similar in difficuly to tearing a phone book in half. How is everyone accomplishing this feat?


Oh, and it needs to fit in the box.


Thanks!


----------



## Tedd

Bus bar in the second box.


----------



## WannaTheater

Don't have a second box.....

Just the one big metal raco box.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/19970269
> 
> 
> Don't have a second box.....
> 
> Just the one big metal raco box.



Just buy a bus bar that has a cover over it, and mount it behind the wall.


You can get them in various sizes over here, so I would imagine you'd also have a selection over there too.


----------



## CSO

Does anyone know if it is possible to update the firmware on the Grafik Eye QS? I downloaded Lutron's single unit programming software in hopes of simplifying my Grafik Eye programming, but one of my Grafik Eye's firmare is not supported by the application.


----------



## joshsnell

Can anyone explain the difference between the GRX-3104 and the GXI-3104?


----------



## HT_SoulMan

Nice to see that this thread has came back to life.. Can someone answer my previous post as well..


----------



## Brad Horstkotte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WannaTheater* /forum/post/19970159
> 
> 
> Thought I would ask the Lutron experts....
> 
> 
> For my 3106, I need to twist 8 x 12 gauge neutral wires together (6 zones, plus the supply neutral, plus the jumper to the unit).
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure this is similar in difficuly to tearing a phone book in half. How is everyone accomplishing this feat?
> 
> 
> Oh, and it needs to fit in the box.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I didn't have 8, but still quite a few - I used these type of push-in wire "nuts":











You could daisy chain a couple together with a jumper - not sure if that's a code nono though?


----------



## Chiahead

I did the same as Brad. I used a second box did the wiring there, then ran the tails to the graphic eye box.


Here is a pic of mine (not the connections, just the boxes)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17050064


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiahead* /forum/post/19988477
> 
> 
> I did the same as Brad. I used a second box did the wiring there, then ran the tails to the graphic eye box.
> 
> 
> Here is a pic of mine (not the connections, just the boxes)
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post17050064



You have a box of connections behind drywall and you passed inspection? How is that possible?


----------



## Chiahead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/19998721
> 
> 
> You have a box of connections behind drywall and you passed inspection? How is that possible?



No, the lower box is the Graphic eye into the room, the upper box is in the utility room, just a blank face plate over it, and completely accessible.


----------



## gasbie

I used the push-in wire "nuts" in my rasco box. I connected each Neutral to a push in wire nut, then ran a second stranded wire from each push in wire nuts to the grafik eye. Stranded wire makes it easier to push the grafik eye back into the box. I tried to big wire nut to bind all neutral together but it just didn't work for me. Anyways I used the push in wire nut for the neutral and ground wire. It really worked out well.


----------



## gasbie

Can someone tell me if they were able to integrate the RF remote control with grafik eye? If so, how did you do it and can you post a picture?


Also, I realized that people in this forum barely talk about the grafik QS. Apart from the integrated time clock and its wireless capabilities, what are the other advantages of it?


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Brad Horstkotte* 
You could daisy chain a couple together with a jumper - not sure if that's a code nono though?
Daisy chains are fine. You could nut five wires (four neutrals and a jumper) together, and then another five wires (the other four neutrals plus the same jumper) together.


To get all of the grounds together, you can use a crimp ring.


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sands_at_Pier147* /forum/post/20021755
> 
> 
> Daisy chains are fine. You could nut five wires (four neutrals and a jumper) together, and then another five wires (the other four neutrals plus the same jumper) together.
> 
> 
> To get all of the grounds together, you can use a crimp ring.



+1, crimp rings on grounds "are my friend"


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brad Horstkotte* /forum/post/19985247
> 
> 
> I didn't have 8, but still quite a few - I used these type of push-in wire "nuts":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could daisy chain a couple together with a jumper - not sure if that's a code nono though?



I know this is the Grafik Eye thread, but I have a Q on those push-in connectors.

I've used them, and like their convience.


My Q:

When you twist wires together you get a lotta surface area, and the nut when you twist it really secures that.

Seems robust and lotta electrons can get thru large surface area, no "hot spotting" issues.


Here, you get a small knife edge that grips the copper......which is "better" or more robust??


I know these had to go thru testing/etc, still.....


I'm not talking just ground wires here, but the black Hot wire and Neutral white wire. I don't ever use the push in connectors for plugs/sw either, I screw all my connections.


Thoughs from experts?

There have been no documented incidents from these?


----------



## HT_SoulMan

Does anyone know of a motorized drapery/curtain system thats compatible with the 3106?... I now that Lutron sells theirs and I read Makita may work as well... any others?


----------



## Jedi

SoulMan - I have installed a 3106 and a Makita Drapery system in my theater room. However, I operate the Makita directly using its IR control. I see little if any advantage of controlling the drapes through the Grafik Eye. I use a central RF/IR control system to control everything and have the macros timed internally to coordinate the drapes opening with the light dimming control settings. The Makita is a reliable unit and comes with IR control and clock timer control.


----------



## HT_SoulMan

Jedi,


Whats the central RF/IR Control System you are using?..


----------



## Jedi

...Universal Remote Control, I use MX-850 with MRF-300. Programming is done on personal computer. URC has much newer models out there and available, now.


----------



## Mopar_Mudder

I am really interested in getting one of these but so far Lutron has been much less then helpful with trying to give them money. I talked to the "Grafik Eye tech dept" and they basically said it might work it might not we have no idea. I sent them an e-mail with more detailed info and it has gone unaswered, great support. Any way I figure I will get much better help out of people that use it and really know something. My main concern is LED rope light dimming.


Zone 1) 2 incandescent lights at 75w each


Zone 2) 5 incandescent lights at 75w each


Zone 3) LED Rope light total of 60w. This is a link to the rope light I have which says it is dimmable ROPE LIGHT . The rope light is currently controlled by a Leviton 6633-PLA slide dimmer Dimmer Spec . It has small locator light on it when the switch is off, when you turn the switch off the rope light would come on very dim. I turned the locator light off (has a switch for it) and then it worked perfect. So the LED rope light does seem to dim fine on a standard dimmer.


Zone 4) This needs to be a simple on/off to switch an outlet on and off. Plugged into the outlet is a transformer that powers a LED Light engine for a star ceiling


----------



## HT_SoulMan

The PELV Terminal on my GE 3106 looks different compared to the newer models and the pics I have seen. It seems to take a specifc connection (harness) rather than the screw in bare wires. What type of PELV Connection (harness) is needed for this specific terminal..


Thanks..


----------



## xzener

Hey guys,


Im getting close to needing a Grafik Eye installed and have a couple of questions.


I'd like to have 4 zones...

Pot lights for around my soffit.
Pot lights for above the screen.
Rope lighting for above the soffit.
And one for sconces (not sure if I'll actually install them).


My room is about 12X12... Do you think sconces would be necessary, or will the pot lights be enough lighting??


So now Im needing to buy a 3 or 4 zone Grafik Eye and I need to find where to buy these things. Is there a web site that most of you purchase them from?? If so, which website?? All the links on the #1 post give me the dreaded 404 error.


Thanks!


----------



## jtymann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *envient* /forum/post/19904322
> 
> 
> In case of a short circuit on one of the zones wired to the grafik eye, does the distribution panel circuit breaker (10A) does its job, or the grafik eye units gets burnt ?



In my case a short in one of the zones destroyed my grafik eye (GRX-3006).


I understand some models have some protection, but I'm looking for source to repair mine. Lutron was unable to help.


----------



## Jedi

SoulMan - the white nylon mini-plug equipped with tiny wire connection screw clamps has been removed and is missing from this photo. It is supplied with the 3106 and any other Lutron GRX network devices. Suggest you call Lutron tech support and have them send you a couple.


----------



## HT_SoulMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/20075849
> 
> 
> SoulMan - the white nylon mini-plug equipped with tiny wire connection screw clamps has been removed and is missing from this photo. It is supplied with the 3106 and any other Lutron GRX network devices. Suggest you call Lutron tech support and have them send you a couple.



Thanks Jedi..


I called Lutron Support this past Saturday and was told that the missing connector is called a "Phoenix Connector". The Tech. had one, and it was shipped out the same day. It was also mentioned that this particular connector is common at Electrical Supply stores as well.


----------



## HT_SoulMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xzener* /forum/post/20066802
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> Im getting close to needing a Grafik Eye installed and have a couple of questions.
> 
> 
> I'd like to have 4 zones...
> 
> Pot lights for around my soffit.
> Pot lights for above the screen.
> Rope lighting for above the soffit.
> And one for sconces (not sure if I'll actually install them).
> 
> 
> My room is about 12X12... Do you think sconces would be necessary, or will the pot lights be enough lighting??
> 
> 
> So now Im needing to buy a 3 or 4 zone Grafik Eye and I need to find where to buy these things. Is there a web site that most of you purchase them from?? If so, which website?? All the links on the #1 post give me the dreaded 404 error.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



This is just my opinion, but depending on the size of the pot lights you might can bypass the scones due to the size of the room. Another factor would be if the pots where installed in the ceiling near the soffit or under the soffit. Ceiling install would make the lighting brighter due to height so I guess placement is a factor.


I purchased my GE on Ebay, but it was missing the Phoenix Connector but all zones have been tested individually and manual programming seem to work.


----------



## xzener

Thanks for your input. I think pot lights will be used and not sconces. But I'd still like a 4 zone Grafik Eye. I almost got one on eBay, but someone outbid me at the last minute (I hate eBay!!). I noticed on a previous link in this thread that said "since 2009, Lutron no longer supplies Grafik Eye's to shopping cart web sites." Is this true?? Where the heck can I buy one from??


----------



## xzener

Is the Lutron Grafik Eye GRX MR-3 the equivalent to the 3103??


Reason I'm asking is because I found one on eBay that comes with a NTGRX-4S. I'm itching to land one of these on eBay... I'm at the point in my build where I need a GE... BAD!!


----------



## ctviggen

Anyone know how the Grafik Eye Entrance Control - Ntgrx-1s actually works? Specifically, could I replace it with a two-way switch? I can't stand not being able to swipe my hand up the wall to turn the lights on, and instead hunting to find a button.


----------



## oman321




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/20211565
> 
> 
> Anyone know how the Grafik Eye Entrance Control - Ntgrx-1s actually works? Specifically, could I replace it with a two-way switch? I can't stand not being able to swipe my hand up the wall to turn the lights on, and instead hunting to find a button.



That would be a no ct,


While the 1s is connected to the GE by regular electrical cable vs. the PELV that other modules use, it is still a module.


----------



## JeffC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xzener* /forum/post/20066802
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> So now Im needing to buy a 3 or 4 zone Grafik Eye and I need to find where to buy these things. Is there a web site that most of you purchase them from?? If so, which website?? All the links on the #1 post give me the dreaded 404 error.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Hello I have bought a bunch of stuff from Hanks Electric, You can find them here 


They have great prices and have been really good to work with, and nope no affiliation










Jeff


----------



## rxtrom

The first post of this thread is pretty old. I have a Theater I am helping a friend with and he has a 4 gang box ready for a lutron unit. He has 5 zones so I assume getting a 6 Zone grafik eye would be recommended. However, there are a few different units and we are not sure what the right model is to get. The application is just to dim the lights via RF while in the theater.


The remote will be a URC of somekind TBD. Would it be more reasonable to buy 4 of URC's light dimmers to be used instead of a whole grafik eye?


Any comments are much appreciated.


----------



## oman321

For the latest and greatest check out the Grafik Eye QS line.
http://www.lutron.com/Products/Singl.../Overview.aspx 


If you plan to use an RF remote and/or you do not have line of site for an IR signal you will need to run a wire from one of the remotes IR extender/repeater emitter port to the QS for remote control.


----------



## HT_SoulMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rxtrom* /forum/post/20225439
> 
> 
> The first post of this thread is pretty old. I have a Theater I am helping a friend with and he has a 4 gang box ready for a lutron unit. He has 5 zones so I assume getting a 6 Zone grafik eye would be recommended. However, there are a few different units and we are not sure what the right model is to get. The application is just to dim the lights via RF while in the theater.
> 
> 
> The remote will be a URC of somekind TBD. Would it be more reasonable to buy 4 of URC's light dimmers to be used instead of a whole grafik eye?
> 
> 
> Any comments are much appreciated.



The GE 3000 series would work as well...


----------



## VinnyS

Hey Guys,


Manage to get a GRS-4006 online, not quite sure what it is, can't find any info on it either. The unit seems in mint condition, but there doesn't seem to be a module on the left hand side for the other half of the zones. Any idea why that is? Is that normal? And does anyone know what a GRS is?


----------



## r2t

Can I use one of these to send the ir signal to the 3103 unit stored in my closet? Or do I need the complete ir repeater unit?

http://www.smarthome.com/8130W/Buffa...-Sensor/p.aspx 


Thanks Ron


----------



## VinnyS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *e39mofo* /forum/post/20293654
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> Manage to get a GRS-4006 online, not quite sure what it is, can't find any info on it either. The unit seems in mint condition, but there doesn't seem to be a module on the left hand side for the other half of the zones. Any idea why that is? Is that normal? And does anyone know what a GRS is?



Here are some pics of the controller. The seller had mentioned GRS, when I opened the unit, it says GRX-4006 which I still can't seem to find info.


Let me know what you guys think, I took a picture of the side that doesn't seem to have any terminals.


----------



## misko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *e39mofo* /forum/post/20293654
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> Manage to get a GRS-4006 online, not quite sure what it is, can't find any info on it either. The unit seems in mint condition, but there doesn't seem to be a module on the left hand side for the other half of the zones. Any idea why that is? Is that normal? And does anyone know what a GRS is?



It appears to be almost identical to a GRX-4100, so perhaps it is an older model?

Have a look here:
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...ry/032165a.pdf


----------



## misko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *e39mofo* /forum/post/20293654
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> Manage to get a GRS-4006 online, not quite sure what it is, can't find any info on it either. The unit seems in mint condition, but there doesn't seem to be a module on the left hand side for the other half of the zones. Any idea why that is? Is that normal? And does anyone know what a GRS is?



Oh yeah, as for the missing connectors for zones 2, 4, 6 I can't

explain that. Do you have a photo from the side looking into

the unit where the terminal blocks are missing?


----------



## VinnyS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *misko* /forum/post/20302727
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, as for the missing connectors for zones 2, 4, 6 I can't
> 
> explain that. Do you have a photo from the side looking into
> 
> the unit where the terminal blocks are missing?



Thanks Misko, I've attached more pictures here, it seems like it's made like that, nothing was ripped off. Funny enough, I originally bought from the same guy an 8 Zone controller and was identical, so I returned it and he swapped it with this one, but this one seems to have no terminals either on the same side...I'm clueless now and wondering if I should return it.


----------



## colnot

Is the Belden 9740 rated for 600V? Do I need 2 runs of this wire for the hookup of the NTGRX-4S keypad or will 1 run suffice?

Thanks


----------



## misko

Quote:

Originally Posted by *e39mofo* 
Thanks Misko, I've attached more pictures here, it seems like it's made like that, nothing was ripped off. Funny enough, I originally bought from the same guy an 8 Zone controller and was identical, so I returned it and he swapped it with this one, but this one seems to have no terminals either on the same side...I'm clueless now and wondering if I should return it.
Very strange. Not sure what to tell you. I suppose you could call Lutron, they have great support and ask them what it is since it appears to have a legit Lutron sticker with a model number that can't be found...


Almost looks like a 2 zone unit in a 6 zone box, but the 2 zone PCB

is smaller.


Sorry, not much help I'm afraid.


----------



## audiovideoholic

OK, I have contacted Lutron in Louisville KY to get information on installing a 3 room system. They gave me a phone number to call a rep in Owensboro KY, I talked to him and he gave me 3 phone numbers of three sales places that are kind of close. He said you will probably end up talking with me again. I called the number that was suggested for a lighting place out of Paducah KY. I gave them the number of lights and a copy of the floor plan. I simply told them I need a list of components and prices.


This is the strangest company I've ever dealt with. I talked with the Paducah company last Wednesday and then called them back last Friday. They stated that they forwarded my email and plans to the guy in Owensboro. Then today I got a call asking what the wattage of my can lights will be because a sales rep was in the Paducah store.


I'm going to post a copy of the email I sent them and maybe someone may be kind enough to help me out. I told them maximum of 50 watts per can light and 100 watt max on pendants. Oh and this will be used with the GE Ethernet control interface, was told that if I need two GEs that one interface would work for both control units?



I'll try to break this down into rooms.


Theater- 8 Can Lights, Rope lighting on the ceiling 50' max, 3 lights connected together 100/ea watt max(like a strip of directional lights that will be on the floor pointed up towards the screen), 4 walkway/step lights in the steps.


Entry- 5 can lights


Media/Bar- 9 cans, 3 Pendants


As far as switches and pads I really dont know. I will need to talk with you all about how many and their locations. There will not be any in the actual theater. The wall in the entry room by the theater door is the intended location for the Grafik Eye unless it goes into the closet in the entry room.


I'll give you a call this afternoon.


Thanks

Alex


----------



## hehateme

I want to control 6 lighting zones in my home theater and bar with Graffik eye 3106.

One of the zone has 6 Cree CR6 LED lights. I think each light uses 10.5 watts each.


Does 3106 support dimming Cree CR6 LED lights or do I have to add an additional part or upgrade to a newer QS model of Graffik eye.


thanks


----------



## Ann O'Neamus

One of the advantages of the QS seems to be its time clock - if I understand correctly, we could link several QSes around the house and when we are away our lights could go up and down on a time clock for security.


However from reading the manual it seems that the time clock is always enabled, and there isn't a simple way to disable it - eg a "we're here / we're on vacation" choice. It looks as though we would have to go through a complicated reprogramming sequence when we go away.


Am I understanding this correctly?


----------



## Neurorad

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Ann O'Neamus* 
One of the advantages of the QS seems to be its time clock - if I understand correctly, we could link several QSes around the house and when we are away our lights could go up and down on a time clock for security.


However from reading the manual it seems that the time clock is always enabled, and there isn't a simple way to disable it - eg a "we're here / we're on vacation" choice. It looks as though we would have to go through a complicated reprogramming sequence when we go away.


Am I understanding this correctly?
No, don't think so.


Do you have a separate control system, with touchpanels?


I'm betting a scene switch could be programmed for it.


Any progress on the front door access, Ann? Can't PM you.


----------



## 134dabear

Dont know if it is the right place, but I'll try..


I have 2 Lutron Integrale controllers, synced together...had them for over 6-7 years, without a problem!

Recently, one of them started going on and off at crazy speed and eventually locked up! I kept using the other one (which provided more of the main lighting). This week it started going mad too!! Same pattern...after about an hour it starts switching on and off..and hen it locks. (Top two green light on) - same with other one.. Now both of them are dead (top two lights on, but nothing works)


Called Lutron only to find out that after guarantee period is over "you are on your own" !! They couldnt even suggest a service (??!) Just told me to buy a new one....










I am installing lots of AV gear and specifying lots of Grafik Eye controllers (over 20 in the last two years..) but I will stop doing that, for sure...


Anyone had similar problems?

Workarounds, tips? Service name & number in UK? Anything..


----------



## WannaTheater

Hi all,


Is it possible to somehow control a Grafik eye 3106 with remote control BY ZONE, i.e. Raize/lower zone 3 only? Or are all available remote control mechanisms by SCENE only?


Looking for any possible solution (ir/rf/ethernet/rs232)


Thanks!


----------



## Ann O'Neamus

Re switching a QS into "vacation" or "we're away for the weekend" mode, enabling the timeclock; then disabling it again when we return:

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Neurorad* 
I'm betting a scene switch could be programmed for it.
I have read the manual a couple more times and can't see how this can work. We could add a scene switch but can't see how that helps...???


----------



## DMF

Have you called Lutron? When you get to the right guy, he will tell you more than you ever wanted to know...


Seriously, Lutron customer support r0kz.


----------



## VinnyS

Hey Guys, Hopefully someone can help clarify something for me...


I picked up a GRX-2404 and wiring my theater for it. As far as I can see, it can be controlled with an IR Remote, but I'm installing a 4 Zone IR Controller from Xantech. I know the GRX-2404 is limited, but I guess the only real way on controlling this Grafik is having a really long emitter from the Xantech controller all the way to the Grafik Eye







, or is there a cleaner and simpler way of doing it?


----------



## DMF

Lutron has a couple of IR receivers that sit on the GE data bus. But either way you'd still have to run a cable from the GE to where you can get your IR signal.


----------



## VinnyS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/20563064
> 
> 
> Lutron has a couple of IR receivers that sit on the GE data bus. But either way you'd still have to run a cable from the GE to where you can get your IR signal.



Are there any Lutron IR Receiver compatible with the GRX-2404?


At least that would be run behind the GE data bus and I can bring that to my controller. But at least you won't see an emitter stuck on the front of the GE keypad or is that what all GRX-2400 series owners are doing?


----------



## DMF

The emitter method is certainly cheaper. I believe if you look through this thread there is a post showing how with minimal visual impact.


GX 2000 and 3000 series data buses are compatible. For models, see the Lutron web site.


----------



## DeaconDan

Has anyone used the Elemental LED flexible LED strips and dimmable magnetic transformer with a GE?

http://www.elementalled.com/12v-dimmable-driver.html 
http://www.elementalled.com/flexible...-the-foot.html 


I've contacted Lutron and Elemental tech support and neither has tested with the others product and therefore won't confirm whether they will work together or not.


Elemental says they will be getting a GE to test with within a couple of months, but I need to move before then. I am looking for a LED strip and transformer that will work with GE to use as step lights on my riser lip above steps (~3 LEDs over each step).


Thanks,

DD


----------



## oman321

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...he+old&page=27 


Your in luck DeaconDan,


Moggie from the thread above posted about using Elemental Led's in his build. I asked about he was powered them and in post 807 he responded that he had a zone for it on the GE but that if it didn't work that he would use some other dimmers. I believe he used the GE but you'll need to double check with him.


----------



## DeaconDan

Thanks oman! I confirmed that Moggie does have a working GE and Elemental LED setup (see post on his thread here ).


Instead of the Elemental power supply, he used a ROAL Electronics dimmable LED driver . At $28, it is much less expensive than the Elemental supply ($110) so I am planning to go with it.


----------



## DMF

I have a brushed Nickel faceplate for a GE, if anyone's interested (off a 3506 bu should work for any 2000 or 3000 series of the same dimensions). PM me.


----------



## trek737

I have the Universal MX980 remote control and the MSC 400 because my equipment is in a different room than the theater. The lights are controlled by Graphic Eye QS. The GE is connected to the MSC400 by a cat 5 cable and was working just fine via RF. I had the geek squad come out to deal with some other issues concerning the remote and by days end the remote would not work the lights via RF. Line of site with remote to the GE it works but that would mean getting out of your seat and pointing the remote directly at the GE on the wall. He tried everything and said that the cat 5 was sending the signal as he put a IR flasher on the end of the cat 5 and it illuminated. The remote works everything else in the equipment room without a hick up. He even talked with a tech rep form Lutron and bottom line they sent me a new one. I hooked the new one up and it still does not work RF. Geek squad is coming back out but any ideas on what might of happened? Any thing that might be in changed on his computer that would stop the GE from taking the RF signal.


Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Jedi

...did you test to see if the flasher temporarily wired to the end of the cat5 would operate the QS while aimed directly at the front panel IR window? Could be sending corrupted IR signal.


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Quote:

Originally Posted by *sathyakamaraj* 
GRX3000 inside the Media Room - Wall station - right behind the GRX mounted wall ( Entrance ) - GRX IRI at the Closet

*Option 1:
*Without Wirenuts









*Option 2:
*With Wirenuts









*GRX Mounting* -- Masonry Box RAco 698 - Double Box Installation
*NTGRX Mounting* -- Home Depot








*GRX-IRI Mounting* ---*???*

*Questions:*

1. Option 1 or Option 2 or Both are wrong

2. PELV cable wiring needs to be run through conduit?? ( run through attic from room to closet equipment rack

3. GRX-IRI mounting -- best way to mount in wall...Clean installation with less work??
ANYONE HELP ME -- Option 1 is not working. Just installed this and checked with remote control, its not working...how to troubleshoot...please.


NTGRX-4S is working from the Wall Station,

Remote control works with Main GRX unit

Wiring 1,2,3,4 is ok. (Black-Com,Red-Power,white,green : Mux)


Update:

Connected the GRX-IRI directly yo Main Unit - IRI is not working...but those wires working for the Wall station control - which means Power is good and what else is good?


----------



## sathyakamaraj

Update :

Read the Manual & threads


Set the Main Unit to A1

Set the GRX IRI to DIP Address 9 On

Now GRX IRI is working, But Wall Station is not working


Update:

Set the Wall Station Dip Switch to 1 on

Wall station ress scene 1 and off for 3 seconds - led cycle starts

GE unit : hold the scene 1 3 seconds , LED cycle start

Wall station : press scene 1 and off

Address set


So far working,,....all through forum posts.thanks


----------



## trek737




> Quote:
> ..did you test to see if the flasher temporarily wired to the end of the cat5 would operate the QS while aimed directly at the front panel IR window? Could be sending corrupted IR signal.
> 
> Yesterday 02:51 PM



I do not know if the geek squad tech tried that idea or not. I will pass this along to him if I can ever get him back out to the house.


Thanks for your suggestion...


----------



## rodukas

Gentlemen,


I tried with no luck to get answers from Lutron help desk, but I also received the 'maybe it works, maybe it doesn' answer.


I have a HotLink Pro IR repeater and wanted to control a Grafik Eye which is at the entrance of my HT using a universal remote control. The QS has an inside IR wire interface, but how would it work ?

Can I simply take one of my HotLink emiter LED cable, cut it and wire to the QS interface?


Thanks for your help


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rodukas* /forum/post/20860709
> 
> 
> I have a HotLink Pro IR repeater and wanted to control a Grafik Eye which is at the entrance of my HT using a universal remote control. The QS has an inside IR wire interface, but how would it work ?
> 
> Can I simply take one of my HotLink emiter LED cable, cut it and wire to the QS interface?



I have the same IR repeater as you and a 3106 here, and I used some Cat5 cable to extend it, and rejoined the LED at the end of it. I then carefully cut and trimmed the inside front cover of the 3106 to fit the LED infront of the receiving LED, and placed the cover back on.


It all works great.


I think I got the idea from an image somewhere in this thread.


Hope it works for you.


----------



## mjf_uk

Has anyone used a Rania Accessory Dimmer (RDSU-452) with a Grafik Eye instead of a Wallstation?


----------



## Bruach

Hi, not sure if this is the best place to post but I'm looking to sell my Grafik eye (GRX-3106) and wander if its worth putting up on avsforums as Im in Australia and its 240V? Appreciate any thoughts...


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bruach* /forum/post/21008795
> 
> 
> Hi, not sure if this is the best place to post but I'm looking to sell my Grafik eye (GRX-3106) and wander if its worth putting up on avsforums as Im in Australia and its 240V? Appreciate any thoughts...





Try the dtvforums that we have over here, as they'd be your best bet.


I don't need one at the moment, but if it is at a good price I might be interested.


----------



## pinstripes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same IR repeater as you and a 3106 here, and I used some Cat5 cable to extend it, and rejoined the LED at the end of it. I then carefully cut and trimmed the inside front cover of the 3106 to fit the LED infront of the receiving LED, and placed the cover back on.
> 
> 
> It all works great.
> 
> 
> I think I got the idea from an image somewhere in this thread.
> 
> 
> Hope it works for you.



I don't suppose you have any detailed photos of this? I'm having a hard time finding exactly how to wire the IR flasher and get it under the cover of the 3106.


----------



## bpratt2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pinstripes* /forum/post/21202000
> 
> 
> I don't suppose you have any detailed photos of this? I'm having a hard time finding exactly how to wire the IR flasher and get it under the cover of the 3106.




There was an image in this thread from quite some time ago, but you can put the bare IR flasher underneather the front cover by doing some trimming with a sharp knife, and the front cover just bulges oh so very slightly.


Just about everyone never notices it, and in fact I have to look twice to really see which one I have it under (I have a 3104 and 3106 above each other, and the IR flasher is behind one of them, but not the other).


----------



## fuzzy bee

I'm working on my basement and I have a Grafik Eye 3104 (? - I know it's a 4-zone 3000 series, but it's not in front of me right now). I'd like to do LED recessed lighting, but it looks like I'll have to put in an ELVI for each circuit, since it looks like the LED fixtures I've seen are electronic dimming. Has anybody here found any magnetic dimming LED recessed lights?


----------



## TheSly

Not sure if there are many International readers in here, but I'm in Australia and am interested in purchasing a 4-zone Grafix Eye 3000, but locally the best price I can see is around $1770, which seems crazy.


There are UK sites selling them for £366 http://www.cwlighting.co.uk/files/details.php?id=210 ($570US), not including delivery, or US sites on Amazon for around $700US.


Does anyone have some knowledge on whether they would work in Australia (we use 240V), or does the voltage difference make it unworkable?


Thanks guys,


----------



## raZorTT

Hey TheSly


I bought my GE QS from the UK and it works fine.


Cheers

Simon


----------



## raZorTT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raZorTT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey TheSly
> 
> 
> I bought my GE QS from the UK and it works fine.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Simon



Oops I'm in Australia


----------



## TheSly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *raZorTT* /forum/post/21331048
> 
> 
> Hey TheSly
> 
> 
> I bought my GE QS from the UK and it works fine.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Simon



Thanks mate, just the info I was after. Appreciate the PM too, very helpful.


A more general question if others can assist pls. I want to control an electric screen, the projector on/off and 3 light zones (rope, soffit, cabinet), so thought the 3000 range was where I should be looking. After emailing resistor.co.uk I was informed I would be better off buying the QS as I would need an additional device to do the projector/screen with the std 3000.


Does anyone have any information on what's required, and considering the QS is more expensive up front, if that advice is accurate? I've checked Lutron's site and can't see any specifics mentioned regarding the extra hardware.


Thanks,


----------



## hifiphones

Guys I have a Lutron Grafik Eye GRX-3104 and would like to connect a wall plate to it.


It looks like some kind of socket is missing to connect the cables running to the wall plate. Can anyone advise where can I get such a socket?


----------



## crb667

Hello,


I'm just finishing up new theater and need some advice with a 3104 and a Harmony remote. The 3104 is on the the side wall, 12ft from the screen. I have the low voltage wiring ran to behind my screen where my Niles repeater system is. Is there a cheap way to 1) get a generic IR reciever so I can stick a flasher on it or 2) directly connect to the Niles box without essentially setting up two repeaters.


This may be all mute if the GE has a good IR reciever on the wall unit and will take a commands bouncing off the screen.


Thanks in advance,


Chris


----------



## bpratt2

Interested in finding out how people are running their GE's with LED lighting, particulary what LED drivers that work with the GE's.


Very interested in drivers that work on 220-240v 50Hz(being Austrailian based) , or is it possible to run their through iron core transformers down to 12v ????


LED lighting now appears to have matured in to a viable option these days.



Thanks.


----------



## TheSly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/21703091
> 
> 
> Interested in finding out how people are running their GE's with LED lighting, particulary what LED drivers that work with the GE's.
> 
> 
> Very interested in drivers that work on 220-240v 50Hz(being Austrailian based) , or is it possible to run their through iron core transformers down to 12v ????
> 
> 
> LED lighting now appears to have matured in to a viable option these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I'm doing just that now. My GE QS wireless arrived from the UK a few days ago, and have been looking for an LED option. I grabbed a Bunnings Osram LED to test so will wire it up and see if it works. I also have read online here http://whrl.pl/RciPPQ about the coolmax globes which seem to work too.


I'm trying to find someone in Sydney who can assist me with the install, as it seems many electricians/lighting places have never heard of the GE.


----------



## TheSly

Following up on using LED with the GE I've discovered a few things.


An LED rope light I purchased from the UK worked, but had the 'pop in/out' at 5%-10% power that plagues all LED's I've seen. I solved it by adding a halogen to the zone, so now it powers on/off gradually to 0% nice and smoothly, instead of off/on at %5 power. I need to explore if there is another way to do this, as I don't want to run a halogen along with the LED rope at the same time just to solve this problem.

I also tested some 10w LED downlights and they had the same pop in/out when turning on. A single light also flickered at low power, but once I used 3 lights the 25w minimum requirement was met, and they turned on at low power without the flicker, but I still couldn't solve the pop in/out, even with a halogen running on the zone as well. They may need to be returned and I may go for halogen only for that zone.


Anyone else have experience with GE's and LED?


----------



## bpratt2

I vaguely remember reading something about a minimum zone load of I think 40 watts, and this may be part of the issue you are experiencing. I'm sure someone in here will correct me if I am wrong about the 40w per zone minimum.











I'm actually looking for something LED to replace what I was sold as starbursts, which take a 20w bi-pin halogen. They are only about 12mm (half inch) reflector, and fit flush in the ceiling. Not sure of the angle of illumination, but appears to be quite narrow.

I've got around 30 of these dotted around my ceiling in a number of different zones.


Of course these won't be the only fittings I'll be replacing.


----------



## TheSly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpratt2* /forum/post/21735556
> 
> 
> I vaguely remember reading something about a minimum zone load of I think 40 watts, and this may be part of the issue you are experiencing.



Thanks for replying, but I'm achieving the minimum with the extra 50w halogen, and it still doesn't work, so I don't think the minimum is the issue.


----------



## HT_SoulMan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hifiphones* /forum/post/21455417
> 
> 
> Guys I have a Lutron Grafik Eye GRX-3104 and would like to connect a wall plate to it.
> 
> 
> It looks like some kind of socket is missing to connect the cables running to the wall plate. Can anyone advise where can I get such a socket?



Check out post #1117 in this thread. I had a siimiliar question as well. Basically, that port takes what is called a, "Phoenix Connector". You connect a PELV (Class 2) cable to it for adding more wall stations.. etc.


----------



## TheSly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheSly* /forum/post/21734774
> 
> 
> Anyone else have experience with GE's and LED?



Well I have been told from the supplier that Lutron offer a solution that artifically increases the load. A power booster, and an LED booster. Total cost for both is around $300US, so it's not something I'm keen on. I'll just use halogens instead I think.


Next thing to look at is how the GE controls the projector power and electric screen. Does anyone have information on setting this up please?


----------



## Jedi

...I control a 60 ft LED ropelight directly with a GE3106 with absolutely no issues.


----------



## VinnyS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I control a 60 ft LED ropelight directly with a GE3106 with absolutely no issues.



How are you doing so? Is The strip plugged into an outlet and the outlet to the GE?


----------



## Jedi

...the LED rope light runs around the overhead soffit perimeter and is direct wired to one of the GE zones, connected above via a junction box. The zone is configured within the GE as incandescent, and operates smoothly without any sort of interface device.


----------



## TheSly




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi* /forum/post/21751868
> 
> 
> ...the LED rope light runs around the overhead soffit perimeter and is direct wired to one of the GE zones, connected above via a junction box. The zone is configured within the GE as incandescent, and operates smoothly without any sort of interface device.



I find this intriguing. So when you go from 100% to 0% there is a uniform fading the entire way, as in it doesn't get to around 5%-10% light output and then turn off when the GE clicks?


----------



## TheSly

Hey guys,

Just some advice from those who have already been there if I may. I want to run a projector and screen as one zone. I'm looking at the wiring required for this. Do I just run a cat5e from both to the GE, and attach them to the 12v input? Or do they run into the zone?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## audiovideoholic

can someone tell me which inputs my electrician needs to use for the IR and wall station?


I have 2 pelv wires ran to the junction box, one for IR going to a gateway for irule and the other for walls stations.


Its the QSGRJ-6P


----------



## pinvideo

Have a GRX3104 and want to dim flexible LED strips with it. Do I need a dimmable LED driver or not? Anybody have experience with this?


----------



## audiovideoholic

I have a problem with my step lights. They will not turn off unless everything else is turned off. They will turn on if everything is turned off though. Any advise?



Edit


Someone brought to my attention that I may not have enough watts on that zone. The steplights add up to 12 watts. Is there anything I can do to correct the issue if that is whats causing it?


----------



## danielrg

It appears this thread - though sticky, is getting kind of stale. Stale in that people post questions every few weeks but they only trickle in. Is that because the answers are already in the thread somewhere? But also stale in that links are broken in the beginning of the thread now and much of the information is a few years old. Could this mislead people into purchasing older control gear when they could be choosing from more recent controller product lines?


I'm wondering if it might be worth a post that links to other related and more current threads about some of the newer offerings.


I am still in the planning stages for my theater. And I am wondering if the Grafik Eye "original" - (i.e. the GRX-xxxx series) might be a little outdated at this point by some of Lutron's newer offerings?


How does one choose which line of controller to go with? I started reading this thread but then heard about the RadioRA, RadioRA 2, and the Grafik Eye QS series (like the QSG-6P120)


So many options! From the Lutron website:

Single Room Solutions 
Whole Home Solutions 

Maestro Wireless
Pico Wireless
Spacer System
Grafik Eye
Grafik Eye QS
Radio RA
Radio RA 2
HomeWorks QS
Sivoia & Sivoia QS (control shades & possibly screens?)


Does anyone have some good guidelines on how to decide which line to go with? The Grafik Eye QS seems the only one that the Lutron website has direct links to from their solutions pages. Is there a reason to choose the original over the QS series at this point? When would you go with the RadioRa or HomeWorks over the Graphik Eye? Everything I have read about Sivoia on this thread just says it costs a mint. Anyone know the ballpark for putting in a screen controller and perhaps a set of shades in a theater room?


I've been reading about all this stuff, and it's awesome, but hard to make decisions with so many options. Should one just get a professional to help?


----------



## Mr.Tim

Depends on budget. The QS has wired IR and displays dim %. RadioRA units are controls only and require the actual RadioRA dimmers to work.


I think the majority of people are interested in the 31xx series because you can dim for about $50/zone if you shop smart on ebay. Spacer will be a close second, but it depends on the number of zones.


RadioRa may make sense if your wiring was such that you have multiple dimmers in different locations. Since most of us are wiring from scratch, the lighting runs are installed so we can use a central solution.


----------



## danielrg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Tim*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1170#post_22158452
> 
> 
> Depends on budget. The QS has wired IR



Speaking of the QS having wired IR. Do I just get an IR repeater system, take one of the emitters and just chop off the emitter and connect the two wires to the hardwired ports on the back of the unit? Does that work? I haven't found anything definitive in the posts about how to hook the IR repeater system to the back of the GE QS series.


Does the Grafik Eye QS Wireless have wired IR on the back too? (kind of an oxymoron)


I could get a Grafik Eye QS Wireless and add a RadioRA2 system to the house later and tie it in - according to the Lutron literature - giving me significant expandability.


I read the Graphik Eye QS essentially has the GRX-IRI of the old system included in it - i.e. if using the IR port on the back you can use the more complex IR commands that only the GRX-IRI could accept on the older GE system. Is that correct? I also heard the QS series has an ethernet module you can purchase for it, and put it on your Ethernet network for computer control - don't have to use RS232.


The QS still has 1% granularity on controlling zones too like the GE 350x series right?


----------



## krakhen

How about the RA-GRX-4? They seem to be equivalent to the 3000(35xx?) series except for the RF capabilities for RadioRA and a fixed id number. Any experience with those?


Also, which universal scene enabled remote controls have you found to be better suited for controlling grafik eyes via IR? Especially considering they seem to have very narrow IR sensitivity angles.


I own a Monster AVL300(RF) and a Harmony Link(WiFi) with their respective flashers, but I'm considering something like an iRule for customization and flexibility.


----------



## pauleyc

Is there an economical way to add another IR box to a GRX-3104. I don't like the idea of putting an IR flasher on the GRX-3104 or modifying the cover as others have. Attaching a separate scene controller with IR is ok also. Any options still available?? I would do the RS232 interface, but its not that important ($$) but was hoping to find something like a GRX-IRI which seems more reasonable. Will this work with the GRX-3104. I'm guessing it just provides a remote location for the IR blaster and connects back to the GRX with 4 wires (1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc..?)? Seems simple enough, just wanted to ensure there were no gochas.


----------



## oman321

The GRX-IRI is a Grafik Eye accessory, so yes it is compatible.


You'll need the wire available on this site.

http://www.hankselectric.net/detail.aspx?ID=402 


This wire is rated to be in the same box as high voltage wire.


----------



## tbraden32

I purchased what I thought was a 3106. Turns out they actually sold me a 3506. From reading the only difference is the 3506 can dim in increments of 1% compare to the 3106 that does 6-7% and can be controlle via PC.


Am I missing anything? Should I return or does the 3506 have same value as 3106?


----------



## jjslegacy

Another question:


What is the difference between the 3XXX models and the 4XXXX models - is it just "newer" or any new/missing functionality? Can't find a good compare anywhere.


----------



## tbraden32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jjslegacy*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1170#post_22543319
> 
> 
> Another question:
> 
> 
> What is the difference between the 3XXX models and the 4XXXX models - is it just "newer" or any new/missing functionality? Can't find a good compare anywhere.




From the OP, the 4000 series is recommended for commercial use and professional install. I have been referred not to purchase those. Maybe someone can chime in with exact details but everything I've read said no go for home use.


PM me if you are looking for 3000 series.


----------



## CSO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CSO*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1080#post_19975266
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if it is possible to update the firmware on the Grafik Eye QS? I downloaded Lutron's single unit programming software in hopes of simplifying my Grafik Eye programming, but one of my Grafik Eye's firmare is not supported by the application.



I asked the above question well over a year ago. At the time, the answer was only a field tech could update the firmware. Things have changed. Now it is possible to use an application supplied by Lutron for the end user to udpate the firmware from old Grafik Eye QS controllers to firmware version 2.80. Note that version 2.80 isn't the latest, but it is new enough to support Lutron's Single Unit programming software. Lutron's tech support was kind enough to email me the firmware update utility.


----------



## deewan

I'm looking for a little help and/or confirmation. In my modest theater I have two zones. Zone 1 is the main lighting and is controlled by a Lutron Maestro so I can control the lights using a remote. The Zone 2 consists of three eyeball lights across the front of the room near the screen and is controlled by a regular Lutron dimmer. My desire is to control each zone by remote and independently. So I bought a GRX-3102. My problem is that the theater was a remodel and both dimmer switches I currently have are wired as (I think it’s called) a grounded switch. Essentially wired as the below pic shows.

 


My problem is my power source is run to a junction box in my ceiling near the back of the room, the branched off to the lights and dimmer switches. I do not have dedicated wires from the power source to my dimmer switch area.


My first question is I want to make sure it is NOT possible to hookup the Grafix-Eye using the wiring I have in place. I’m 99.8% sure I can’t use the hot, neutral and ground wire from the junction box that are currently at my dimmer switch and hook them into the hot, Zone 1, and ground and use the Grafix-Eye.


If that isn’t possible... My second option is to remove the power source running to the junction box, tap into an electrical outlet I have below my dimmer switches as a power source (outlet is not used for anything) for the GE, then use the current wires running to the lights as my Zones 1 and 2.


Any and all help will be appreciated. And hopefully my explanation of my wiring makes sense.


----------



## Jedi

...deewan, you probably should avoid tapping the receptacle outlet for power, while that particular outlet is seldom used, it is connected to other receptacles elsewhere along the same circuit. You generally should keep lights isolated apart from receptacle circuits Tapping into the existing power lead in the ceiling should be fine, assuming it is an unswitched power lead. You need to run wiring from each of the two separate light locations. together with the power lead, each independently to the Grafik Eye. controller. The hot leads from all three locations connect as shown in your Grafik Eye installation diagram, directly into the backside of the controller, and the associated neutrals and grounds are each separately twist connected together and tape insulated, preferably somewhere located inside the junction box housing the controller.


----------



## deewan

Thanks Jedi. I didn't even think about the other outlets that would be tied to the outlet I would be tapping into. The lights and outlets are currently on the same circuit, but I also see the concerns of it being tied to other outlets in the room. Thanks for your input!


----------



## sqmzeea

Fellow GE Owners...looks like this thread has not seen activity in some time but I'll ask the question anyway. Given that the GE has to have a min load of 25W I've been buying up Halogen PAR20s and Reveal A19s which are becoming harder to find. Has anybody here made the switch to CFL or LED with their GEs? If so, how did you do it? Synthetic loads or other. At some point is it just going to be cheaper to buy a new GE that supports LEDs or CFLs out of the box.


As a side note, I'm on the same set of incandescent light bulbs that I put in my GE 4 years ago - don't need no stinking energy savers.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## mtbdudex

I've had the Grafik eye on my HT upgrade list for 4 years now, there always seems some other "good cause" for me to spend the $600 or so on some other HT items.........yea I get the cool and wow factor........someday I will add it, for now it's dad asking one of the kids "hey, turn down/off the HT lights"....


----------



## deewan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mtbdudex*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22811018
> 
> 
> I've had the Grafik eye on my HT upgrade list for 4 years now, there always seems some other "good cause" for me to spend the $600 or so on some other HT items.........yea I get the cool and wow factor........someday I will add it, for now it's dad asking one of the kids "hey, turn down/off the HT lights"....



Why pay full price when slightly used will do? I paid $99 for my 2 zone, 4 scene switch on ebay. After installing that switch, I decided to buy one for future upgrades and found a 4 zone model for $150. That unit did have a scratch, but I bought a new cover and it's good as new for way less than half of the new price!


----------



## tbraden32

Is anyone using "door switches" and hiding the actual grafik eye controller? Or what are you guys doing for your setups?


Would I need switch at top of steps and bottom if doing a basement build, and if so what is recommended?


I currently have a 3106 stashed away for my build.


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deewan*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22811514
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mtbdudex*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22811018
> 
> 
> I've had the Grafik eye on my HT upgrade list for 4 years now, there always seems some other "good cause" for me to spend the $600 or so on some other HT items.........yea I get the cool and wow factor........someday I will add it, for now it's dad asking one of the kids "hey, turn down/off the HT lights"....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why pay full price when slightly used will do? I paid $99 for my 2 zone, 4 scene switch on ebay. After installing that switch, I decided to buy one for future upgrades and found a 4 zone model for $150. That unit did have a scratch, but I bought a new cover and it's good as new for way less than half of the new price!
Click to expand...


Great idea!

I'd never think of used, will check eBay.



Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22815734
> 
> 
> Is anyone using "door switches" and hiding the actual grafik eye controller? Or what are you guys doing for your setups?
> 
> 
> Would I need switch at top of steps and bottom if doing a basement build, and if so what is recommended?
> 
> 
> I currently have a 3106 stashed away for my build.



I installed a two-button module used as an on-off switch at the door entrance. The GE unit is a little intimidating and confusing for someone unfamiliar to simply walk in and try and turn the lights on. The wall module itself, however, is admittedly rather expensive.


----------



## tbraden32

Like this: Lutron NTGRX-2B-SL 2 Button Switch



And when you push on, what scene do you get or can you set multiple?


----------



## Jedi

...you configure each of the buttons to whichever scene you want. You also need to run 4-conductor cable (hot, com, and GRX pair) between GE and switch location.


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22819406
> 
> 
> Like this: Lutron NTGRX-2B-SL 2 Button Switch
> 
> 
> 
> And when you push on, what scene do you get or can you set multiple?




My order info is below, color was brown.



001) LUT.SG-2BN-BR-E03 E 1 156.000 156.00

2 BTN WALLSTATION


----------



## wraunch

What are y'all finding on eBay? All the GEs I find are like $450! I need a six zone and a two or four button wallstation or two. If I run all my wires from my lights to where I plan to put the GE, what do I run to the wallstation? Cat5? What is PELV? I plan on controlling my GE with a iRule through a Global Cache gc100-12.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22821666
> 
> 
> What are y'all finding on eBay? All the GEs I find are like $450! I need a six zone and a two or four button wallstation or two. If I run all my wires from my lights to where I plan to put the GE, what do I run to the wallstation? Cat5? What is PELV? I plan on controlling my GE with a iRule through a Global Cache gc100-12.



It's a waiting game as well as knowing what you're looking for. Best to start looking when you start your build.. You should find something by the time you are ready to put the finishes on. I can tell you there are two nice deals on ebay right now.. because they are listed as GRX-IA. Look at the first post in this thread and you'll see what I mean.


Tim


----------



## wraunch

Just thinking out loud here but what is the downside of just using Maestro dimmers? I can control them with iRule through ir the sane way I was going to use the GE abd I can configure my scenes with iRule. Seems to simple what an I missing??


----------



## wraunch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Tim*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22825170
> 
> 
> It's a waiting game as well as knowing what you're looking for. Best to start looking when you start your build.. You should find something by the time you are ready to put the finishes on. I can tell you there are two nice deals on ebay right now.. because they are listed as GRX-IA. Look at the first post in this thread and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> 
> Tim



Tim, what are the GRX-IA models? How are they different than say a GRX 3106?


----------



## Mr.Tim

If the first post of this thread is correct:


> Quote:
> GRX-3500 (*aka IA series*)
> http://www.lutron.com/grafikeye/3545.asp?s=&t
> 
> GRX-3502 (2 zone, 2 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
> 
> GRX-3503 (3 zone, 3 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
> 
> GRX-3504 (4 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
> 
> GRX-3506 (6 zone, 4 gang box) MSRP $ coming soon
> 
> 
> Features:
> 
> The 3500 series is programmable with 1% resolution in dimming steps, vs. @6-7% steps on the 2400 and 3100 series.
> 
> The same advanced IR control as the 3100 series, except the raise and lower have more steps in the resolution.
> 
> The 3500 series adds the capability of using the RS-232 interface which adds real time feedback to a control system as well as direct communication dimming w/out establishing presets. (ie: directly dimming one load only to modify an existing scene)



Also take a look at the sellers photos...


Tim


----------



## cheezit73

I have a GRX-IA model and the first post is correct they exactly the same thing as the 3500 series which makes them a great deal as you can see the first post MR.Tim quoted they have more features. Also people dont know what they are so they tend not to be bid on as much on Ebay and you can get a better price. More for Less its a rare find!


----------



## oakleyman

If anybody is looking for a good deal on a Lutron Grafik eye 6 zone with 2 wall switches and a switch with remote control. I have this on ebay for sale or I can sell it here. If you need additional pictures LMK. here is the ebay listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/130835807663?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 this is my auction.


----------



## xjagox

I just got a Grafik Eye off of eBay and thought it was DOA when I tried to test it. Lutron tech support helped me figure it out. Turns out it was a dual-feed model. I had never seen that before, so head's up to anyone else that might end up in the same situation:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429098/the-medleys-neck-theater/0_100#post_22887152


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22817161
> 
> 
> I installed a two-button module used as an on-off switch at the door entrance. The GE unit is a little intimidating and confusing for someone unfamiliar to simply walk in and try and turn the lights on. The wall module itself, however, is admittedly rather expensive.



And there's a future upgrade "issue" with them, so I'm finding out. If you want to integrate the GE into a RadioRA2 setup later, turning on the RF support in the GE will DISABLE the low-volt keypad interface. So any SeeTouch wallstations won't work.


I'll be doing a RadioRA2 install in my house sometime soon, but that limitation means I won't put the GE onto the system, and just leave my IR wired as is.


But, doing it over, I'd either skip the wallstations if I knew i was going to upgrade, or I would have run some romex in parallel to the PELV cable so that I could install a RadioRA2 keypad at those locations in the future.


(but I'd still run something to those locations - I agree that the GE is intimidating for 1st-timers walking into the room)


Jeff


----------



## Jedi

[quote name="sqmzeea" url="/t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22805881"Given that the GE has to have a min load of 25W I've been buying up Halogen PAR20s and Reveal A19s which are becoming harder to find. Has anybody here made the switch to CFL or LED with their GEs? If so, how did you do it? Synthetic loads or other..


Thanks,

Mark[/quote]


I am considering replacing 7 perimeter soffit can PAR30 halogens (55W ea) with the LED replacements linked below. The detailed specs say "dimmable" but before shelling out $200, further research is needed to determine if they will dim satisfactorily on my 3106 GE, w/o an interface. Not sure if "CREE Led Chip" referenced in the description means anything helpful to someone knowlegable??

http://www.lightexports.com/servlet/the-8134/ultraled-par30,-par30-led/Detail


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22887920
> 
> 
> And there's a future upgrade "issue" with them, so I'm finding out. If you want to integrate the GE into a RadioRA2 setup later, turning on the RF support in the GE will DISABLE the low-volt keypad interface. So any SeeTouch wallstations won't work.
> 
> 
> I'll be doing a RadioRA2 install in my house sometime soon, but that limitation means I won't put the GE onto the system, and just leave my IR wired as is.
> 
> 
> But, doing it over, I'd either skip the wallstations if I knew i was going to upgrade, or I would have run some romex in parallel to the PELV cable so that I could install a RadioRA2 keypad at those locations in the future.
> 
> 
> (but I'd still run something to those locations - I agree that the GE is intimidating for 1st-timers walking into the room)
> 
> 
> Jeff



...I use the IR interface located in my equipment closet with an IR emitter attached to it. This interface is hardwired into the GE using the same PELV circuit as is the wall switch. I'm wondering if the same thing exists in the form of an RF interface in place of IR?


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22906857
> 
> 
> ...I use the IR interface located in my equipment closet with an IR emitter attached to it. This interface is hardwired into the GE using the same PELV circuit as is the wall switch. I'm wondering if the same thing exists in the form of an RF interface in place of IR?



Well, yes, that would be RadioRA2... As long as your GE has the RA2 support, you can join it to the Main Repeater and control it over RF via RS232 or IP (at the repeater).


But that IR interface, also part of the wired interface direct the the GE, will also be non-functional once the GE unit is joined to the RadioRA2 system.


----------



## Jedi

....my thought was to keep the GE out of RA2 mode for sake of the wall stations, and, if such thing exists, control the GE using RA2 through an interface.


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22907015
> 
> 
> ....my thought was to keep the GE out of RA2 mode for sake of the wall stations, and, if such thing exists, control the GE using RA2 through an interface.



...something such as this;

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/366-627G.pdf


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22907104
> 
> 
> ...something such as this;
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/366-627G.pdf



Hadn't seen that, but it appears to be a RadioRA (1) device, not a RA2. I suspect they don't have a replacement since the GE models have RA2 support now... I will take a further look though, as that would accomplish the goal if it works!


Thanks,


Jeff


----------



## jautor

Ok, since the thread is alive at the moment, I'll ask a question for you other GE owners. I realized earlier this week that I still haven't ordered the custom engraving plates for my wallstations or the GE itself. I know what the scenes are, and what I'll call them, but looking for opinions on the "first" one.


As we've all noted, the GE unit itself is rather intimidating, and most folks wouldn't recognize it as a light switch. So I'm trying to figure out what would be the best phrase to use to "just turn the darn lights on", which would be my top button anyway (on the 5-button devices):
??? - All lights on to mostly full brightness
Pre-Show - Dim, but bright enough to walk around and get used to the darkness
Cinema - Very dim for movie
Sports Bar - Brighter in the back of the room for watching sports / events
Off


So what to call the first one that would be the most obvious to visitors"? I came up with: "On", "Lights On", "Welcome", "Lights", "Push this button to turn the lights on" (I don't think the last one will fit).


What have y'all used that worked? I think my leading candidate is "Lights On". Better than "on" if you don't know what the heck the GE unit is in the first place.


Jeff


----------



## Spaceman

You have lived with your wallstation and scenes longer than I have, but I'm currently calling the first one "Welcome". I'm going to live with it for a while before ordering the custom engraved buttons, but that's what I call it on the button I programmed on my remote. For me, "Welcome" and "Pre-show" are very similar, but "Pre-show" turns off the lights over the screen and dims the side cans a little bit more than their "Welcome" setting, so previews can be watched while people are still filtering in with their popcorn and drinks.


So, one vote for "Welcome".


----------



## Mr.Tim

I was thinking

"All On"

"Movie"

"Intermission"



Tim


----------



## Jedi

...Jeff, my wall station is dk brown and located by the entrance door. The two buttons themselves are engraved with "ON", followed by a standard emblem of a lighted bulb, and "OFF", followed by a standard emblem of a darkened bulb. The engraved portions of the buttons are translucent and green backlighted. The are indeed small, but intuitive and feelable, and somewhat readable in the dark. The thing about the GE buttons is that they are so tiny and closely spaced. It may be a struggle to read whatever is posted beside them.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22907605
> 
> 
> ...Jeff, my wall station is dk brown and located by the entrance door. The two buttons themselves are engraved with "ON", followed by a standard emblem of a lighted bulb, and "OFF", followed by a standard emblem of a darkened bulb. The engraved portions of the buttons are translucent and green backlighted. The are indeed small, but intuitive and feelable, and somewhat readable in the dark. The thing about the GE buttons is that they are so tiny and closely spaced. It may be a struggle to read whatever is posted beside them.



Oh, I completely forgot about the icon options, thanks! The dark/light bulb along with On / Off moves to the top of my list!


Jeff


----------



## Chiefrude1

I have a grafik eye 3106 and would like to run some rope lighting on one of my zones. Ive read that it was possible and I read that it wasnt possible because there was not enough wattage draw from the rope lighting. Can anybody clear this up for me please?And if somebody has done this how did they go about it? Thank you for your help and time.


RJ


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiefrude1*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200#post_22981709
> 
> 
> I have a grafik eye 3106 and would like to run some rope lighting on one of my zones. Ive read that it was possible and I read that it wasnt possible because there was not enough wattage draw from the rope lighting. Can anybody clear this up for me please?And if somebody has done this how did they go about it? Thank you for your help and time.



I've got incandescent rope light as one zone, with more than enough load to meet the minimum requirements. If you use LED rope light, even if it's dimmable, you will probably run into problems with the 60W (IIRC) mimimum load, as


----------



## Chiefrude1

Did you direct wire the rope light?


----------



## Jedi

....I run a 75 ft LED rope light (ceiling soffit perimeter) directly wired as one of the zones to my 3106. Worked for me, however YMMV


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chiefrude1*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1230#post_22982358
> 
> 
> Did you direct wire the rope light?



Yep. Since the rope light specs will give a watts per foot rating, you can easily figure the load your zone would have. I have about 160' in my zone.


----------



## wraunch

I am going to be running the high voltage wire in my theater tomorrow. In order to direct wire the LED rope would I just run the romex to the GE location and terminate it in a junction box to be wired into the LED rope later?


----------



## Jedi

...I would suggest a single gang outlet box, for making a plug/outlet connection with the rope light.. For safety and in some areas to meet code, the outlet/plug devices should be special, non-standard design, to prevent someone from plugging in a vacuum cleaner, or whatever, into the GE dimmer circuit. Lutron makes such a dimmer circuit outlet/plug device pair.


----------



## Helheim

What is the difference between the Grafik Eye QS and IA series? Thanks.


----------



## wraunch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1230#post_22989430
> 
> 
> ...I would suggest a single gang outlet box, for making a plug/outlet connection with the rope light.. For safety and in some areas to meet code, the outlet/plug devices should be special, non-standard design, to prevent someone from plugging in a vacuum cleaner, or whatever, into the GE dimmer circuit. Lutron makes such a dimmer circuit outlet/plug device pair.



So just a standard plug and the dimmer on the other end?


----------



## Jedi

....a non-standard plug and receptacle at the rope light end, and the GE at the origin.


----------



## Johnson4

Can anyone help in sourcing a masonry box for my Grafik Eye? Remarkably, Australian suppliers of wall boxes seem completely confused over the size required... perhaps it's the imperial measurements?


I wondered if this would be any good? Or does someone know of another supplier that will ship to Australia?


Quite urgent, this is... my electrician is on site as we speak...


----------



## Jedi

...depends on which GE model you have. A six-zone model such as the 3106 is designed to fit into a 4 gang standard box. The masonry box is recommended because it is constructed deeper, allowing additional space behind the GE device to accommodate the large twisted bundles of the 7 common leads and the separate twisted bundle of 7 ground wires. Since masonry boxes have no external flanges, the electrician will have to be creative in affixing one to the wall studs.


----------



## Johnson4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200_50#post_22990453
> 
> 
> ...depends on which GE model you have.



Apologies... it's the Grafik Eye QS. Dimensions stated in the installation manual are:

*7.9 inches wide

3.75 inches high

3.5 inches deep*


Thanks in advance...


----------



## Jedi

A six-zone model such as the 3106 is designed to fit into a 4 gang standard box. The masonry box is recommended because it is constructed deeper, allowing additional space behind and around the GE device to accommodate the large twisted bundles of the 7 common leads and the separate twisted bundle of 7 ground wires. Since masonry boxes have no external flanges, the electrician will have to be creative in affixing one to the wall studs.


----------



## Johnson4

Interesting... meeting with my electrician today, he seems to think a wall box is unnecessary -- it can just screw directly into the top and bottom noggings.


Is there a specific reason the back of the unit needs to be enclosed in a box, rather than just in the wall?


----------



## sebberry

All line voltage devices (plugs, switches, etc...) need to be installed into a box. You can't have electrical connections made behind the wall without a box.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnson4*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1230#post_22992453
> 
> 
> Interesting... meeting with my electrician today, he seems to think a wall box is unnecessary -- it can just screw directly into the top and bottom noggings.
> 
> 
> Is there a specific reason the back of the unit needs to be enclosed in a box, rather than just in the wall?



Electrical code in the US requires it, as sebberry mentions, but code in Tasmania may allow it? Electrician should know - but it should definitely be treated like any other line-voltage device (switch, dimmer, etc.).


Jeff


----------



## Jedi

...as others have stated, according to US building codes, any line voltage electrical connection must be housed in an accessible electrical box. Even if this is not a requirement where you live, in the case of the Grafik Eye device, there are further reasons. This device generates mild heat, and the metal box enclosure helps to dissipate that heat. Clearance must be provided around the box installation for this purpose. If you surround the device with wood noggins, it will run too hot, and likely will fail prematurely. Also, installing a heat source directly against combustible materials is never a good idea. Have him install the box, and make sure clearance exists around three open sides of the installation for heat dissipation.


----------



## Johnson4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200_50#post_22993291
> 
> 
> Electrical code in the US requires it, as sebberry mentions, but code in Tasmania may allow it?



Thanks for the replies. Apparently it's not a requirement here in Australia (all switches, transformers etc just fit into the wall cavities without enclosures, unless they require weatherproofing). But as Jedi says, the heat dissipation may obligate one in this case.


----------



## wraunch

I bought a plastic new work 4 gang box at HD the other day. Will that work for a 6 zone GE?


----------



## Jedi

..wraunch, I believe you are going to need more internal wiring space than a plastic 4-gang box offers, especially deep within the cavity. The metal masonry box variety has nearly 90 cu inches of uninterrupted cavity space, and the metal dissipates heat better. If you can't find one locally, I believe Hanks Electrical Supply sells them online.


----------



## wraunch

Would something like this not work? 64 cu. inches of space.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_130775-223-BH464A_0__?productId=1013533&Ntt=4+gang+electrical+box&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3D4%2Bgang%2Belectrical%2Bbox&facetInfo=


----------



## Jedi

....I wouldn't want to try it.


----------



## xjagox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200_100#post_22998188
> 
> 
> ....I wouldn't want to try it.



+1


I would look for a deep metal box. The squared back will give you lots more room to stuff folded up wire.


----------



## wraunch

Anyone ever seen one of these deep metal boxes at Lowes or HD? I need one for Monday when my electrician comes.


----------



## wraunch

I assume you mean I need a box like this?

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RACO-Electrical-Box-2DDA3?Pid=search 


How would you attach that box to the stud?


----------



## Jedi

..Raco 698 is what you need. That price is triple what the Raco can be found for if you shop around. Check with local electrical supply houses, and ask for Raco 698 or equivalent (3-1/2 deep, four gang, metal masonry box, non-gangable) .


----------



## Jedi

.....one thing more, don't let them steer you towards assembling a gangable box, it won't work, the gang tabs will interfere with the GE. You need solid, non-gangable construction.


----------



## wraunch

Thanks Jedi. How do you attach that to the stud?


----------



## Helheim

Does a regular SeeTouch keypad worth with a Grafik Eye QS?


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1230#post_22999858
> 
> 
> Thanks Jedi. How do you attach that to the stud?



..I drilled screw holes in one end and affixed it with two or three wood screws. Don't forget to set it proud the thickness of your drywall. Keep the insulation clear of the box by a few inches, when that time comes.


----------



## wraunch

I have a guy that says he has a GRX-3106 for $250. This is a picture of the back of it. He says it has to be used in conjunction with a dimming panel. What gives? I though the 3106's were all ok to be used without a separate dimming panel. Pic of the back of the unit here. The front is identical to the other 6 zone GEs.


----------



## xjagox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200_100#post_23017810
> 
> 
> I have a guy that says he has a GRX-3106 for $250. This is a picture of the back of it. He says it has to be used in conjunction with a dimming panel. What gives? I though the 3106's were all ok to be used without a separate dimming panel. Pic of the back of the unit here. The front is identical to the other 6 zone GEs.



That looks like a 4000 series:
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/4k_Complete.pdf 

see page 8 for back diagram.


The 3106 should have screw terminals on both sides.


----------



## wraunch

As I thought. Thanks!


----------



## tbraden32

$250 would be a heck of a deal if it was a 3106.


----------



## wraunch

I just missed an Ebay auction that went for $225. I know folks that have gotten them for $150-300 lately.


----------



## stikman99

I have a GraphicEye QS and was hoping to use the hardwired IR ports on the back for a connection to a Global Cache GC-100. Does anyone know if this is possible? When I use an emitter taped to the IR sensor on the front, all is good.... I've tried reversing the data and com... but no luck. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


Andy


----------



## Schlemstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23020496
> 
> 
> I just missed an Ebay auction that went for $225. I know folks that have gotten them for $150-300 lately.



Gah, I know - I think I was watching the same one and then missed bidding on it...


Does anyone have an updated link to the install manual? The link at the beginning of the thread does not work.


Thanks!


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stikman99*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23020633
> 
> 
> I have a GraphicEye QS and was hoping to use the hardwired IR ports on the back for a connection to a Global Cache GC-100. Does anyone know if this is possible? When I use an emitter taped to the IR sensor on the front, all is good.... I've tried reversing the data and com... but no luck. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



I've done exactly that and it works fine.


----------



## stikman99

Thanks for your reply. I'll just make sure the wires didn't come loose when I installed the unit... very tight fit.


----------



## rabident

Does it work for retrofit or it new construction only? Theater hasn't been built past drywall yet, but I would like to use something like this for the whole house if it could be retrofit without having to run new wire. House is still being built, but they are past electrical / lighting already.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rabident*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23062832
> 
> 
> Does it work for retrofit or it new construction only? Theater hasn't been built past drywall yet, but I would like to use something like this for the whole house if it could be retrofit without having to run new wire. House is still being built, but they are past electrical / lighting already.



It is retrofit in the sense that if you have a white wire in the box where you want to install it, it will work (310x). So if you have a 4-gang box, with four switches that are all fed from that box (no 3-way), yes it will work provided the box is deep enough.


If you go with a RadioRA (QS) type, it will work from multiple locations.


Tim


----------



## basementdweller1

I have a theater space with a Grafik Eye 3106 controlling 5 zones with two remote keypads also tied in.


The zones power:


1. (2) 65w cans

2. (3) pendant lights w/40w bulbs i believe

3. (8) 65w cans

4. (3) 50w cans

5. (3) sconces with 60w bulbs


I have started using LED can down lights (Ecosmarts that are 65w equivalents using only 9.5w of electricity) in other parts of my home. Can I use them in my theater space with my Lutron Grafik Eye 3106? Back when I built my theater and got my Lutron system (I subbed everything out, so I bought the stuff off Ebay and had my basement electrician put it in) I seem to recall that the 31xx series didn't play well with LED. Is that actually true or is the real issue the "minimum load" per zone? If it is only the minimum load per zone what is that load and would replacing at least some of these cans with LED can lighting be possible?


Thanks...


----------



## Jedi

I would like to report on using dimmable LED lights on one of my GRX-3106 dimmer circuits, without use of an interface device. The circuit previously contained seven perimeter soffit cans, each fitted with a 65 watt BR30 incandescent flood lamp. These were replaced with a set of seven dimmable BR30 LED lamps manufactured by Lighting Science. Bulb details are 15W, 800 lumens, 2700K Color Temp, flood pattern, Mfr model number DFNBR30W27120. The main reason I chose this particular LED bulb is because Lighting Science seems the best at discussing dimmer compatibility in their published literature, and were the only manufacturer to include "Grafik Eye" among the dimmers listed as compatible with their BR30 size bulb. These soffit can lights provide the main source of general lighting in my dedicated theater room, for seating and milling around the room. During the presentation this circuit is turned completely off. This circuit is programmed to ramp from full off to full on in three seconds using the entry wall switch, It also ramps from 100% to full off slowly over 20 seconds, finishing just prior to when the projector begins to throw its image on screen after start-up. The previous incandescent bulbs handled these tasks smoothly and flawlessly. The LED lamps ramp up rapidly perfectly, and the light is way brighter than the bulbs being replaced -- I mean way brighter, which is a bonus in my application. Performance in the slow fade to off is not without issues, however. Dimming does indeed occur over the full range of the dimmer, as evidenced my simultaneously watching the Lutron indicator bar graph, but the light output decline during a slow fade is not glassy smooth like the incandescents -- it happens in a somewhat detectable step fashion over the bright to mid level dimming, and some mild flickering occurs in the mid to off range. Manual dimming testing showed the flicker is more prevalent while dimming level is being changed over the bottom range, and not nearly as prevalent if left stopped at a low, but constant dimming level, During a fade to off cycle, the bulbs stay on until the Lutron indicator lights disappear, and all lamps collectively dim in a like manner and shut off in unison. Overall, I am very pleased with the increased brightness level, and can live with the slow fade flickering. The bulbs are heavy, being constructed of thick cast aluminum body fins, and they contain a rounded frosted glass at the business end, with much the same end-glass geometry as an ordinary incandescent BR30. The light color is a pleasing non-blue tone, and it is collectively spread across the room in a smooth and excellent manner. As these LED's fade, they do not shift towards warmer tones to nearly the same degree as do the incandescents. Overall length of the bulb was the same as those replaced. According to the retailer's website, the manufacturer warrants the bulbs for five years, but I haven't yet read the associated fine print. Caution is advised in making sure the fixture can handle the extra weight of these new LED bulbs, and regarding the number of bulbs on a single GE circuit, due to atypical in-rush currents associated with LED's, treat the wattage as if each bulb consumes 75 watts when determining maximum circuit capacity.


----------



## atledreier

Have you tried adjustig the bias? Made alot of difference for smooth turn-off for me.


----------



## Jedi

...is bias adjustment something to do with the Grafik Eye??


----------



## wraunch

Anyone seen a good deal on a 3106 or 3506 lately? If so where?


----------



## sgolko

I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:

1) 3 can lights in the rear

2) 3 can lights in the middle

3) 3 can lights in the front

4) 6 sconce lights

5) 1 small light in the riser step

6) perimeter rope lighting


Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.


According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.


The thing I can't figure out is how do I bring the 2 power sources into the GE control unit? I have seen some mention of power boosters or something, but am pretty unclear on exactly how this would work.


Any help would be greatly appreciated!!


ps, I am planning on doing the 2-box method of wiring.


----------



## Jedi

...could you consider substituting three, three lamp track light fixtures for the three zones having ceiling can lights?


----------



## sgolko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23205914
> 
> 
> ...could you consider substituting three, three lamp track light fixtures for the three zones having ceiling can lights?


I would really prefer not to...


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgolko*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23205783
> 
> 
> I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:
> 
> 1) 3 can lights in the rear
> 
> 2) 3 can lights in the middle
> 
> 3) 3 can lights in the front
> 
> 4) 6 sconce lights
> 
> 5) 1 small light in the riser step
> 
> 6) perimeter rope lighting
> 
> 
> Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.
> 
> 
> According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.


You can't bring two power sources (and if code is really going to limit you to fixtures, I don't see how that would appease them anyway).


EDIT: There are GE models that allow this, for similar code-compliance reasons - learned something new today!


My suggestion would be to move the step light off the GE and just place it on a switch. You probably won't need to dim it anyway, and besides, it by itself won't be enough of a load for a GE zone (meaning, won't work...). Same may be true for your rope light. You could expand the system with RadioRA2 to control the other switches, but that's a big jump up in cost (if you aren't doing a RA system already or in the future). Other possibility would be to reduce your front cans (assumed there just for screen wash 'effect' and not used much of the time) by one, so that you'd have a 12th fixture spot for the rope.


Pulling both the step and rope light off would also allow you to use a 4-zone GE and save some money for the trade-off...


Jeff


----------



## xjagox




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgolko*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1200_100#post_23205783
> 
> 
> I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:
> 
> 1) 3 can lights in the rear
> 
> 2) 3 can lights in the middle
> 
> 3) 3 can lights in the front
> 
> 4) 6 sconce lights
> 
> 5) 1 small light in the riser step
> 
> 6) perimeter rope lighting
> 
> 
> Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.
> 
> 
> According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.
> 
> 
> The thing I can't figure out is how do I bring the 2 power sources into the GE control unit? I have seen some mention of power boosters or something, but am pretty unclear on exactly how this would work.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
> 
> 
> ps, I am planning on doing the 2-box method of wiring.



The GE that I bought off of ebay was (unintentionally) a dual feed version- not sure if one like it would solve your issue?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429098/the-medleys-neck-theater/0_100#post_22887152


----------



## eyekode

I know very, very little but I think you could solve this with a power booster for your 6 cans as the wiring diagram seems to take a second power input.


I think it could also but solved with two 3 zone grafik eyes. Good luck!

Salem


----------



## sgolko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xjagox*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23207607
> 
> 
> The GE that I bought off of ebay was (unintentionally) a dual feed version- not sure if one like it would solve your issue?
> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429098/the-medleys-neck-theater/0_100#post_22887152



Very interesting. Do you have a mode number that I can try a search on?


Aside from that, I think i am going to take the sconces off the GE, leaving everything else on in 5 zones. The Sconces will just be on a dimmable switch.

Given what I've told you, and that I want to control my GE via a RF remote, any thoughts on which model I should be buying? 3106? 3506? Some kind of QS model?


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgolko*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23209370
> 
> 
> Aside from that, I think i am going to take the sconces off the GE, leaving everything else on in 5 zones. The Sconces will just be on a dimmable switch.



Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.


And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!


Jeff


----------



## GWCR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210013
> 
> 
> Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.
> 
> 
> And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!
> 
> 
> Jeff


I thought my step lights wouldn't be enough of a load for a zone. I have two 7-watt step lights on one zone. For whatever reason, it works fine. They come on and dim on the way out like all the other zones. Perhaps I just got lucky


----------



## sgolko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210013
> 
> 
> Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.
> 
> 
> And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!
> 
> 
> Jeff



I will have 2 small lights on the step (one on either side). What is the minimum wattage for a zone?

The rope light will be approximately 55' long. I see somewhere that rope light is about 3 watts per foot, 150W? should be enough for a zone? I've seen lots of other guys put their rope on a GE, so it must work somehow.


Again, if anyone has a model number or more info on the dual feed unit, I'd be pleased to hear from you.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GWCR*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210098
> 
> 
> I thought my step lights wouldn't be enough of a load for a zone. I have two 7-watt step lights on one zone. For whatever reason, it works fine. They come on and dim on the way out like all the other zones. Perhaps I just got lucky



Specs say 25W min (120V, 40W on 230V) - maybe that minimum load spec is "conservative"? I assume the symptom of a lightly loaded zone is the same I've seen on other dimmers, where the circuit remains slightly "on" - if you look at the bare bulb when the zone is off, is there any glow?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgolko*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210202
> 
> 
> I will have 2 small lights on the step (one on either side). What is the minimum wattage for a zone?
> 
> The rope light will be approximately 55' long. I see somewhere that rope light is about 3 watts per foot, 150W? should be enough for a zone? I've seen lots of other guys put their rope on a GE, so it must work somehow.



Rope light is not an issue.


You said previously you had a step "light" (singular). As GWCR showed above, if you're using two of the normal 7W ones, you may be ok.


But my point about pulling those loads off the GE was that if you just turn them on/off in general, you're consuming a fairly expensive zone for little gain. I'm thinking about doing the same thing with my step lights - putting them on a separate switch to free up a zone for other lights. Since I don't change the step lights' level during normal operation - just turn it on and leave it - I lose very little functionality by moving it to a switch. In your case, moving those off would get you to your 12-fixture limit, if you did the same with your rope.


And a Google search for "Grafik Eye Dual Feed" leads to:

http://www.mrsupply.com/lutron-grafik-eye-grx-3506-t-df-wh.html 


It's the 3506 model, with the "DF" (dual feed) model designator. I don't see it on Lutron's site (easily), so it may be a discontinued model, but using the model builder on MRsupply site you can see it's there...



Jeff


----------



## GWCR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210502
> 
> 
> Specs say 25W min (120V, 40W on 230V) - maybe that minimum load spec is "conservative"? I assume the symptom of a lightly loaded zone is the same I've seen on other dimmers, where the circuit remains slightly "on" - if you look at the bare bulb when the zone is off, is there any glow?


I was nervous about that zone since I had read the 25W minimum spec. Maybe it is a conservative estimate, or maybe it's just how I'm using it. That zone is on full for all the scenes I have programmed so far. I don't vary the intensity at all. The only time that zone is off, is when all zones are off. I have no glow at that point, but wouldn't expect any. I'll try lowering it all the way tonight with another zone on and see if there is any glow.


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgolko*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23209370
> 
> 
> 
> Given what I've told you, and that I want to control my GE via a RF remote, any thoughts on which model I should be buying? 3106? 3506? Some kind of QS model?



Using an RF remote, presumably together with a matching RF receiver/IR repeater unit, will work with any of the three models mentioned. With the 3106 and 3506, if the repeater is to be located elsewhere (no unimpeded line of sight to the GE front panel), you will need to purchase an IR interface, which accepts a wired IR stick-on flasher at a remote location (such as an AV closet), and converts and conveys the commands to the GE through MUX low voltage in-wall cabling. With the QS, you can hardwire the IR signal directly (flasher removed) into the back of the GE unit, without need for the interface. The main difference between the 3106 and 3506 is higher dimming resolution, and better computer based control.


BTW, in the power module scheme, if you want independent dimming of the three sets of ceiling cans, I believe each row will require its own module.


----------



## sgolko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210672
> 
> 
> Using an RF remote, presumably together with a matching RF receiver/IR repeater unit, will work with any of the three models mentioned. With the 3106 and 3506, if the repeater is to be located elsewhere (no unimpeded line of sight to the GE front panel), you will need to purchase an IR interface, which accepts a wired IR stick-on flasher at a remote location (such as an AV closet), and converts and conveys the commands to the GE through MUX low voltage in-wall cabling. With the QS, you can hardwire the IR signal directly (flasher removed) into the back of the GE unit, without need for the interface. The main difference between the 3106 and 3506 is higher dimming resolution, and better computer based control.
> 
> 
> BTW, in the power module scheme, if you want independent dimming of the three sets of ceiling cans, I believe each row will require its own module.



The main unit will be in direct sight of the couch, so I should be fine without an IR interface.

Does that mean if I go with the 3506 DF or drop a zone and do a 3106 or 3506 I do not need the dimming modules? Just want to make sure...


I really appreciate all the help!


----------



## Jedi

...you might check to see if you can find a dual feed (DF) configured model GRX-3106-- if you are using RF remote, you really don't need the extra feature set of the 3506 (it costs more). Not sure I understand your question regarding "drop a zone". All three models discussed are six-zone units and all have the same individual zone and collective zones power handling capacity.


----------



## JRock3x8

Very late to the party on this and I don't mean to thread jack but does grafik eye play nice with an iPad?


----------



## sgolko




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23211518
> 
> 
> ...you might check to see if you can find a dual feed (DF) configured model GRX-3106-- if you are using RF remote, you really don't need the extra feature set of the 3506 (it costs more). Not sure I understand your question regarding "drop a zone". All three remotes discussed are six-zone units and all have the same individual zone and collective zones power handling capacity.



I only get 2 hits on google when I search dual zone grafik eye... I don't think there are too many around. The initial reply from lutron customer service seemed like they had no idea what I was talking about when I said dual-feed. Also not encouraging.

When I say drop a zone, I go back to my initial situation of having too many fixtures on a single circuit for my local code. I would drop the sconces off the GE, keeping them on their own dimmer switch, so a 3106 would have less than 12 fixtures on it.


----------



## GWCR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210502
> 
> 
> Specs say 25W min (120V, 40W on 230V) - maybe that minimum load spec is "conservative"? I assume the symptom of a lightly loaded zone is the same I've seen on other dimmers, where the circuit remains slightly "on" - if you look at the bare bulb when the zone is off, is there any glow?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GWCR*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1260#post_23210548
> 
> 
> I was nervous about that zone since I had read the 25W minimum spec. Maybe it is a conservative estimate, or maybe it's just how I'm using it. That zone is on full for all the scenes I have programmed so far. I don't vary the intensity at all. The only time that zone is off, is when all zones are off. I have no glow at that point, but wouldn't expect any. I'll try lowering it all the way tonight with another zone on and see if there is any glow.



I did some testing last night, and no glow. Didn't matter how many other zones I had on or at what intensity. When the zone for the step lights was all the way down, I had no glow at all. I know this is against spec since I only have 14W total on the zone, but I am going to stop trying to figure out why it works. I'd hate to upset the Lutron gods and have it stop working like this and all of a sudden revert back to the published specs!


----------



## Jedi

I googled "dual feed grafik eye grx-3106" and found the following link;

http://www.mrsupply.com/lutron-grafik-eye-grx-3106-t-df-wh.html 


The details suggest the dual feed option exists or existed, and operates on twin 120V, 60Hz 15A power sources. I found Hanks Electrical Supply to be very patient, knowledgeable and helpful over the internet when I was configuring and ordering my GE unit.


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JRock3x8*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23211641
> 
> 
> Very late to the party on this and I don't mean to thread jack but does grafik eye play nice with an iPad?



...standard control on the GRX series is via IR and on the QS series it is 434MHZ RF or hardwired IR.


----------



## JRock3x8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23214226
> 
> 
> ...standard control on the GRX series is via IR and on the QS series it is 434MHZ RF or hardwired IR.



is that a no?


----------



## LeBon

That is a yes, via the IR (from a Global Cache unit driven by iRule).


----------



## JRock3x8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LeBon*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23214269
> 
> 
> That is a yes, via the IR (from a Global Cache unit driven by iRule).



ok I'll come back to you in a year or so when my project gets to that phase (we haven't even broken ground yet) - seems like that's all pretty hard to understand until you actually start doing it.


I was thinking of Jonathan Danforth's project where he has an ipad in the room, clearly set up as a control device. not sure if he is using grafik eye or not.


----------



## sgolko

Y


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23213956
> 
> 
> I googled "dual feed grafik eye grx-3106" and found the following link;
> 
> http://www.mrsupply.com/lutron-grafik-eye-grx-3106-t-df-wh.html
> 
> 
> The details suggest the dual feed option exists or existed, and operates on twin 120V, 60Hz 15A power sources. I found Hanks Electrical Supply to be very patient, knowledgeable and helpful over the internet when I was configuring and ordering my GE unit.


Yeah they are the only ones that list it (3506 df as well). They haven't replied to my email yet, and put me on hold for 20 minutes as soon as I mentioned that I have a question about an online product... I'll try back after lunch. No price listed, meaning you can't just order it online.


----------



## sgolko

Discontinued... no supply.. can't get more supply.


Well I guess that settles that.


----------



## Jedi

Back to dropping a zone. If you don't need the three rows of ceiling cans to each be independently dimmed, you could put all three (9 cans) on a single zone supplied via a separate power booster, and go with a GRX-3104 model and presumably be within your local code, -- you should consult a local electrician on the latter. The drawback is the three rows must dim all in unison and the combined wattage of the nine cans must be fitted with lamps within the power booster wattage limit. This enables GE scene control of all the lights, including your wall sconces (the low wattage riser light zone being somewhat iffy, as discussed above). Just a thought.


----------



## Schlemstar

Off current subject, but I need about 14 feet of the PELV interconnect wiring to go between my GRX-3106 and an accessory control (extra wall switch). I'm having trouble locating anyone who would sell the GRX or Liberty wire by the foot - does anyone have any sources? I sent an email on Dennis Erskine's website, but haven't heard back. AV Science does not sell it. I can't find either on eBay. Any help is appreciated!


-Schlemstar


----------



## jautor

Hank's Electric sells it by the foot...


----------



## Schlemstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23235948
> 
> 
> Hank's Electric sells it by the foot...



Thanks, I may go that route, but it hurts to pay more for shipping than for the actual wire, so I was looking around for a better option. Maybe someone has some left over from a recent job and could part with it for a reasonable amount?


----------



## Mr.Tim

Any CL3 wire of the proper gauge will work, just go to home depot and have them cut a piece for you.


Tim


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Tim*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23236134
> 
> 
> Any CL3 wire of the proper gauge will work, just go to home depot and have them cut a piece for you.Tim



CL3 rating relates to combustion characteristics in the event of fire, not voltage protection. For voltage protection, you must have 300V rated jacket on cable located inside the Grafik Eye box, which contains exposed line voltage conductors. PELV cable meets this requirement.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23236309
> 
> 
> CL3 rating relates to combustion characteristics in the event of fire, not voltage protection. For voltage protection, you must have 300V rated jacket on cable located inside the Grafik Eye box, which contains exposed line voltage conductors. PELV cable meets this requirement.



While I agree, I don't see the voltage requirement in article 725 of the NEC. Where are you getting that requirement from?


Not saying you're wrong, just trying to figure out how we arrive there.


Tim


----------



## Jedi

PELV cable I have used has either 300V or 600V rating printed on the outer sleeve.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23236451
> 
> 
> PELV cable I have used has either 300V or 600V rating printed on the outer sleeve.



I hear ya, and if you were installing a lot of it (or could buy it by the foot) then it's definitely the way to go. I just don't see the requirement for it in the US. I do see it is a requirement in Canada.


I could be wrong.


Tim


----------



## Jedi

...my understanding is that the voltage protection is only required in the vicinity of the box, where exposed line voltage connections are present. Presumably one could slip a salvaged piece of properly rated jacket (such as from a piece of round Romex), over the business end of an otherwise suitable LV cable and secure it in place with electrical tape. Of this, however, I am uncertain whether would be in strict compliance with code. The voltage protection that the PELV jacket offers is of little consequence elsewhere. Some PELV does use twisted pair configuration for the conductor pair used for signal (Mux) transmission, which helps guard against external signal interference.


----------



## Mr.Tim

I saw some mention of guys putting the 3m shrinkwrap 600v over the end.


Tim


----------



## greggormac

Has anyone ever had their Grafik Eye System (4 zone) lights flash when not wanting them to? We've had our system work well for 7 years, then today, while changing from one preset to another, one of my zones began flashing off and on. The only way i was able to solve this issue, was to turn that zone off completely then turn it back on. I would like to prevent this from happening again. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!


----------



## wraunch

Tim, so are you saying from a code standpoint I could run say a Cat6 cable to my GE box and I won't have any issues with mixing the LV and HV wires if I put the 3M shrink wrap on the Cat6?


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23270220
> 
> 
> Tim, so are you saying from a code standpoint I could run say a Cat6 cable to my GE box and I won't have any issues with mixing the LV and HV wires if I put the 3M shrink wrap on the Cat6?



Category wire should work fine if you have just one accessory control or simply running signal back to a control device, such as a GRX-IA232. However, there are several primary differences between category wire and the OEM specification: 1. Power and common are 18 gauge; 2. There is an aluminum shield contained in the wire along with a drain wire; 3. All wires are stranded, not solid.


I have loads of this wire I should probably think about metering out for those interested. Most is the Liberty cable, some is West Penn wire but both meet the original turquoise Lutron wire specification.


----------



## wraunch

Tim, I am trying to hardwire the IR back to my rack so I can plug it into my Global Cache IP-IR box. Are you saying I need the PELV wire lutron uses for wallstations to do this and be code compliant?


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23270479
> 
> 
> Tim, I am trying to hardwire the IR back to my rack so I can plug it into my Global Cache IP-IR box. Are you saying I need the PELV wire lutron uses for wallstations to do this and be code compliant?



No, just use Cat5 to extend the middle portion of your IR emitter, taking care to be consistent between the smooth and ridged sides of the IR emitter wire.


It's best if you bring the IR flasher up from under the electrical box and affix to the Grafik Eye IR receiver. You'll get DIY Jedi bonus points for stealth if you either remove the IR flasher housing and get down to the root bulb or use one of the tiny IR emitters without the housing and apply the emitter on the Grafik Eye IR receiver underneath the front cover. Either way you are still coming from underneath the electrical box and surface-mounting the emitter.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23270479
> 
> 
> Tim, I am trying to hardwire the IR back to my rack so I can plug it into my Global Cache IP-IR box. Are you saying I need the PELV wire lutron uses for wallstations to do this and be code compliant?



Which GE model do you have? The QS models have a hardwired IR jack on the back. I've wired mine to a GC100 and it works great...


----------



## wraunch

grx-3006, identical to the 3106.


----------



## wraunch

Anyone else wired it up this way:

I got some of the 3.5 stereo connectors from Parts Express and put one on one end to plug into my GC-100.


To connect it to the GE unit, I hard wired them into the IR Data and IR Com connection points. For my unit, these were located on the back left side and were colored orange. I of course used the same color wires on both ends.


In essence, I made my own 3.5 stereo connection line. I could have used a pre-made cable, but I would have had to cut one end off to connect to the GE. Plus, I was having a hard time finding one that was 40 feet long.


----------



## TMcG

 https://globalcache.zendesk.com/entries/20167898-Lutron-Grafik-Eye-issues


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1290#post_23271383
> 
> 
> Anyone else wired it up this way:
> 
> I got some of the 3.5 stereo connectors from Parts Express and put one on one end to plug into my GC-100.
> 
> 
> To connect it to the GE unit, I hard wired them into the IR Data and IR Com connection points. For my unit, these were located on the back left side and were colored orange. I of course used the same color wires on both ends.
> 
> 
> In essence, I made my own 3.5 stereo connection line. I could have used a pre-made cable, but I would have had to cut one end off to connect to the GE. Plus, I was having a hard time finding one that was 40 feet long.



Yep, same here. Mine was ~25' away, so I used an emitter extension cable, and built a pigtail out of a scrap of PELV and a 3.5mm plug to connect to the GE from outside the box (which is accessible in my attic).


----------



## wraunch

Great info Tim thanks. Jautor, what did you put on the other end of the PELV?


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23276411
> 
> 
> Great info Tim thanks. Jautor, what did you put on the other end of the PELV?



A male 3.5mm plug, which then plugs into a 25' 3.5mm emitter extension cable...


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23278071
> 
> 
> A male 3.5mm plug, which then plugs into a 25' 3.5mm emitter extension cable...



If you go this route just make sure you put a couple whips of electrical tape around the connection to bind it together tightly. These are generally very tight-fitting snap connections, but an easy 1 cent insurance policy during your installation. Don't forget to test the connection before closing up the walls as well - believe me when I tell you it ain't pretty to fix if there is a problem....


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23278325
> 
> 
> If you go this route just make sure you put a couple whips of electrical tape around the connection to bind it together tightly. These are generally very tight-fitting snap connections, but an easy 1 cent insurance policy during your installation. Don't forget to test the connection before closing up the walls as well - believe me when I tell you it ain't pretty to fix if there is a problem....



Agreed! And I should have stated that I wouldn't put any connector-mated splice in the wall - mine is easily accessible from the attic behind my theater - I used the emitter extension cable since it made it easy to test the setup with a blink/test emitter. If it was in the wall I would have just used the PELV to get to an accessible point to splice...


Jeff


----------



## Jedi

....a drop of solder is worth a ton of cure.


----------



## eyekode

I am in the process of installing a 6 zone Grafik Eye in finished room. This thread was very helpful in figuring out what I needed to do so I thought I would share my progress.


Disclaimer: I am not an electrician so I don't recommend you do as I do







.


I am using a 4 gang masonry box. I added some spacers so I could screw the box into wood on both sides:
 


I had to cut the hole taller than the box to be able to fit it in there with the wires pulled through. The extra width in the hole was because I decided I needed to attach it to two studs _after_ I cut the first hole







. I think it is typically easier to patch a big hole then a small/oddly shaped hole so if I had it to do over again I would just open it up larger all the way between studs.


Here is m wiring progression:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


To connect all the neutral and grounds together I used these: http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-30-1034J...h+in+connector 

I wish I could have found the connectors that join 8 wires locally but oh well. I used 3 of these jumpered together for both neutral and ground.


I have a rough-in inspection hopefully tomorrow and will update this message afterward.


----------



## TMcG

Eyekode - a couple of tips if you find yourself installing another Grafik Eye at some point that will save you a bit of trouble...
Use a *Carlon 4-gang old work box*. It has 68 cubic inches of room and you don't have to worry about tearing open and patching the drywall to install a masonary box. Both are full-depth boxes, plus you don't have to ground the Carlon retrofit box or use pesky Romex clamps. Whoever recommends masonary boxes for these installs should be taken out and beaten severely with a wet noodle. The plastic option is TONS better and extremely secure with the four dog ear tabs.
Use 8-port push-in connectors for all the Ground and Neutral connections. There are two options for these 8-port connectors.... a flat connector:  and a dual row "stacked" connector:  Get the wide connector because it lays perfectly flat in the back of the box and you don't have to jumble up all the wires in a big twist which sucks up precious depth. They are normally about 35 cents each, FYI. I'll be dead before I use up the box of 50 I bought 10 years ago and I have put many Grafik Eyes into my past homes.
Try to limit the amount of interaction between the low voltage cat-5 line and the high voltage wires. This is important from both temperature and interference perspectives, especially since the cat-5 sheathing is not designed for a higher temperature rating, but also because unshielded Cat-5 is most definitely susceptible to EMF interference in the box. If you are running a simple cat-5 to attach an IR emitter, I would jelly bean on the emitter to the cat-5 and run the emitter wire under the OUTSIDE of the box and affix to the IR receiver on the Grafik Eye. Alternatively, you could install the emitter underneath the Grafik Eye cover plate if you use a low-profile emitter or remove the teardrop protective cover from a standard Grafik Eye. If you are using the 4-port Phoenix communications / accessory control bus on the back of the Grafik Eye, definitely invest in the real Lutron wire or equivalent. This wire contains an aluminum shield and 18 gauge stranded for power and common (ground) feeds.


If you still would like to run the cat-5 inside the box, I would recommend coming up through the bottom middle/right as this will limit the amount of interaction and exposure between low and high voltage wires considering where the wire has to be run either to the 4-port phoenix on the back or the IR target on the front of the unit.


I hope these tips help.


----------



## eyekode

Thanks for the response! Please note the Raco masonry box is 89.9 cu inches so there is quite a bit more room. But it would have been nice to have one less hole to repair!


I was looking for the 8 terminal push in connectors and could not find them locally. And mail order you had to buy 100!


As for the blue wire you see it is lutron PLEV cable so it has a high voltage sheathing. Also I have a QS series grafik eye so I am wiring to the back for IR connection. I am not using the front IR receiver.


Keep the feedback coming! Others can learn from my mistakes







.


Salem


----------



## TMcG

Good to know you are using the Lutron cable....it really looks like Cat-5 from the pictures. And it was a HUGE design improvement for Lutron to put the IR input on the back side of the device instead of only in the front.


I've never had the slightest bit of problem with the 68 cubic inch and the Grafik Eye lays nice and flat without any undue pressure, even when tightening the mounting screws. The extra room is always nice, but the process to get there with the blocking and drywall repairs is a lot more work, especially since the extra room is not needed.


I found the wide, flat connectors for $15.38 for a pack of 50. Maybe a bit too steep just for one Grafik Eye, but I'd be happy to mail you two out of my box if you PM me your address.


----------



## Johnsteph10

Look at your local code -- here I could not use push-in connectors. I also used a blue Carlon 4 space box - tight fit with everything but easily doable with a little planning and some neat wire work.


----------



## sgolko

Just reading through this latest discussion, and a question has popped into my mind...

I'm about to install a GRX-3106 into my theater room. I have have 6 zones, all run off the single unit, which is located in the theater room about 5 feet from the couch.

Do I need to run a cat5e to the box for an IR emitter, or is there something built into the unit already? In other words, will I be able to control this with some sort of remote (likely a Harmony something or other) without running any separate cables, or will I be able to do this with the unit as-is (or with minimal effort once the unit is installed).


Thanks!


----------



## TMcG

I have four GRX-3106s in my house. The way I control them is they are all addressed as different masters during the setup (in other words A1, A2, A3, etc. in Lutron-speak) and all daisy-chained together through a single communications bus as per Lutron installation protocol. The very last wire from the very last device is linked to a GRX-IA232 device so my control system can send RS-232 control codes out over the bus. All Grafik Eyes listen to the command, but only the appropriate one responds with the scene setting. This is using the 4-port phoenix connector on the back of the unit.


For IR you have a couple of different options and it depends on your setup. If you are using the remote as a basic point-and-shoot standard remote, you would simply point the remote at the Grafik Eye to execute the command. If you are more fully integrating this with the control system as part of a macro sequence or using the RF capabilities, then you will need to find a way to extend the IR emitter from your RF receiver / control hub to the Grafik Eye's IR receiver directly. This is most commonly done by cutting a standard emitter in half and splicing one pair of Cat-5 into the connection. As I said above, it is better to bring the low voltage wire / emitter from underneath and outside the high voltage box to route the emitter from underneath and under the cover with a low-profile emitter like this (pic found on the web, fyi):

 


So to answer your question, the only way to run the unit as-is is simply to point an IR remote at the Grafik Eye and issue the command, just like any other standard remote. Anything else is going to take a wire for control.


----------



## sgolko

Thanks! Maybe I'll run a Cat5 then while the wall is still open. If I don't use it, I don't use it.


----------



## eyekode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnsteph10*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23295463
> 
> 
> Look at your local code -- here I could not use push-in connectors. I also used a blue Carlon 4 space box - tight fit with everything but easily doable with a little planning and some neat wire work.


Man I hope the pushin connectors are kosher! I would hate to see what a mess I would make with wire nuts!!


----------



## Schlemstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eyekode*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23297468
> 
> 
> Man I hope the pushin connectors are kosher! I would hay to see what a mess I would make with wire nuts!!



I'm hooking up a GRX-3106 right now, and the push in connectors are the bees knees! They are UL listed and rated for plenty of voltage, so I don't know why code wouldn't allow them, but I suppose anything is possible. I bought a pack of 10 on ebay for like 7 bucks. Good luck!


-Schlemstar


----------



## tbraden32

Great info above!


----------



## eyekode

My rough-in inspection passed!

And I managed to get the Grafik Eye in the box today. I am not very talented at folding wires. And I needed every cu inch in that masonry box. I am sure others could do it in less room but I could not!!!


----------



## danielrg

I have been reading up on the Grafik Eye QS Wireless. I am considering a 6-zone version for my room. I am getting ready to order it soon.


A few notes:


- USB hasn't been mentioned in this thread since 2009. As I understand from the literature, it is now possible to connect via USB to the Grafik Eye QS Wireless and use free software from the Lutron website to program it. Has anyone had experience with this?


- The CREE CR6 LED retrofit bulb has been tested with the Grafik Eye QS Wireless unit and is shown to work quite well. According to their selection guide, it appears to be one of the best LED dimming options for recessed lighting as far as how dim they can go. I read in a couple places about coupling the LED bulbs with a hidden 10-15w bulb or resistor to make the load look more resistive. Don't know if that would be good or bad in this case. Anyone have experience with LED dimming direct from the Grafik Eye QS? I'm seriously considering the CR6 fixtures


- Anyone also installed controlled Sivoia QS shade(s) in their theater room?


----------



## Moggie

Daniel,


I used a GE QS system in my theater build. I recall it coming in several versions although I don't remember a USB version. I use the direct wire IR connection from Xantech distribution unit and it works great. I have one zone driving a 120' LED rope light and it dims fine. One other zone consists of about 32' of LED rope and two 5w incandescent stair lamps and this also dims fine too. The GE does have a minimum load rating that can be hard to reach with a small number of LED lights. In this case adding an incandescent light as resistive load can work well. If this is inconvenient then Lutron sells an hidden resistive load for this purpose -- being an electrical engineer you could also build your own.


Cheers.


- Paul.


----------



## danielrg

Apparently the USB port is NOT for control, only for initial programming and firmware upgrades. I'm thinking I'd be using IR and/or their Ethernet or Radio RA2 controllers for linking into it with computers/remotes.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Schlemstar*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23298056
> 
> 
> I'm hooking up a GRX-3106 right now, and the push in connectors are the bees knees! They are UL listed and rated for plenty of voltage, so I don't know why code wouldn't allow them, but I suppose anything is possible. I bought a pack of 10 on ebay for like 7 bucks. Good luck!
> 
> 
> -Schlemstar



It's just local inspectors who might not allow them. I used wire nuts for my connections, but I only have 4 zones. Now, I think in my area, they require grounds to have a copper ring crushed onto them; so, that's what I've been doing but did not do that for the Grafik Eye (since weren't required then). I have used the push connectors in other areas, though, particularly for grounds in boxes where I replace the light switches. For whatever reason, none of the light switches in my house are grounded, and the grounds in each box are tightly wound and cut short. If you have three switches, it's a bear to try to add three additional wires to a set of ground wires that are tightly wound and cut too short. So, I've been unwinding the grounds, adding a single ground wire, and then rewinding the grounds (and either adding a wire nut or a copper ring, depending on when I did it; having owned the house for 9 years, you go through multiple versions of the NEC). I then take the single ground wire and put it into a push-in connector and the rest of the grounds to the new switches are easy.


----------



## TMcG

It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.


----------



## damelon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23384743
> 
> 
> It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.



A lot of times it's the fault of the writers of the code itself. The code will get written as "All wires not terminated in a recepticle (or whatever) must terminate in a wire nut" or something to that nature. When really it should just use the word "terminated" or something. Sometimes more detail is worse, but I get your point... sometimes the code is written correctly and the inspector has his own definition of it... sort of like an ump and a baseball strike zone.


----------



## Mr.Tim

The code says, " conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use..."


Of course, it also defines "Approved" as, "acceptable to the Authority Having Jurisdiction".


All of my recessed lights shipped from the manufacturer with the push connectors. There is really no reason for an inspector to prohibit them, provided they are installed according to their listing. Perhaps some inspectors just aren't aware they are listed.


Tim


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Tim*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23385116
> 
> 
> The code says, " conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use..."
> 
> 
> Of course, it also defines "Approved" as, "acceptable to the Authority Having Jurisdiction".
> 
> 
> All of my recessed lights shipped from the manufacturer with the push connectors. There is really no reason for an inspector to prohibit them, provided they are installed according to their listing. Perhaps some inspectors just aren't aware they are listed.
> 
> 
> Tim



Thanks Tim! When I wrote my post I was 99.99% sure you would see it and post the actual code wording. I didn't have the time (or patience, to be honest) to look it up.


My inspector up in Pittsburgh initially objected to the push-in connector use inside the Grafik Eye box, but once I objected to his objection (







) and then dug the connector package out and showed him the ratings / certifications / UL listings all over the thing he passed everything with a bit of reluctance.


----------



## wraunch

Can I buy two of these connectors anywhere? I don't need a whole pack of them.


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23389173
> 
> 
> Can I buy two of these connectors anywhere? I don't need a whole pack of them.



PM me your addy....cost will be a beer (or five) when I visit your theater someday!


----------



## wraunch

Sweet! PM sent!


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1320#post_23384743
> 
> 
> It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.



Some electricians don't like them, either. I think they're confusing them with connectors on the "back" of light switches, which tend to produce a lot of callbacks. However, I tested these types of connectors by attempting to pull out wire, and it's hard to get wire out of them. You have to rotate the connector while pulling on the wire.


One problem I've had with these connectors is using stranded wire in them and then trying to remove the stranded wire. That can be a bear. A lot of X-10 type switches have wiring that's stranded, and now that I'm moving out of my house and removing these switches for the few ones I've used with the connectors, it's a pain in the butt to get the stranded wire out. It's possible, but takes work.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23394683
> 
> 
> Some electricians don't like them, either. I think they're confusing them with connectors on the "back" of light switches, which tend to produce a lot of callbacks. However, I tested these types of connectors by attempting to pull out wire, and it's hard to get wire out of them. You have to rotate the connector while pulling on the wire.
> 
> 
> One problem I've had with these connectors is using stranded wire in them and then trying to remove the stranded wire. That can be a bear. A lot of X-10 type switches have wiring that's stranded, and now that I'm moving out of my house and removing these switches for the few ones I've used with the connectors, it's a pain in the butt to get the stranded wire out. It's possible, but takes work.



I have never seen one rated for stranded wire.


Tim


----------



## Neurorad

Wago Series 773 Wall Nuts push wire connectors are rated for stranded and solid conductors.











I've used them for a Lutron dimmer and a couple outlets. They're very good. Different flavors, read the spec sheet before you buy.


----------



## Neurorad

I am not familiar the the GE conductors. Is one of them a small AWG stranded? The standard Wago push in Wall Nut connectors are rated down to 16 AWG for stranded. I used a special Wall Nut for my Lutron IR dimmer that accommodated an 18 AWG stranded.











SmartHome carries Wago Wall Nuts.


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23404897
> 
> 
> Wago Series 773 Wall Nuts push wire connectors are rated for stranded and solid conductors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've used them for a Lutron dimmer and a couple outlets. They're very good. Different flavors, read the spec sheet before you buy.




Good to know, thanks for sharing.


Tim


----------



## Neurorad

What AWG size stranded lead does the GE use? There is only a single Wago Wall Nut that can accept 18 AWG stranded, and that's a 4 conductor connector, pictured above, part 773-124. Other connectors can accept down to 16 AWG stranded.


----------



## RossoDiamante


Sorry for what I'm sure is a very basic question.  Was taking a look at the GE in preparation for installing it in a couple of weeks after drywall is done.  The GE seems to take a Black/White/Ground directly connected to it from the electric panel.  And then each of the 6 zones' Black wires gets connected into the respective zone terminals.  Is it correct that all of the zone Whites and Grounds are tied together in the electrical box?  And by extension, there is no connection of the of these whites and grounds to to the GE directly?


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RossoDiamante*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23406440
> 
> 
> Sorry for what I'm sure is a very basic question.  Was taking a look at the GE in preparation for installing it in a couple of weeks after drywall is done.  The GE seems to take a Black/White/Ground directly connected to it from the electric panel.  And then each of the 6 zones' Black wires gets connected into the respective zone terminals.  Is it correct that all of the zone Whites and Grounds are tied together in the electrical box?  And by extension, there is no connection of the of these whites and grounds to to the GE directly?



You are a bit off. You tie all the grounds together with a wire nut or push-in connector, including the wire coming from the panel, with a jumper (6 inch or so long piece) to run to the back of the GE. This essentially consolidates all the ground wires into one wire. You do the same with the neutrals. The hot (black) from the panel gets tied directly to the GE and then the hot from each load goes under the respective 1-6 terminal. Make sense?


----------



## eyekode

I am no expert but I believe you need at least 14ga for a 15a circuit. If you run a 20a circuit you would need all wires to be 12ga. I have no idea how you would fit all those 12ga wires in one box! I did however manage to fit all my 14ga wires into a 4 gang masonry box (6 channel grafik eye).


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eyekode*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23408179
> 
> 
> I am no expert but I believe you need at least 14ga for a 15a circuit. If you run a 20a circuit you would need all wires to be 12ga. I have no idea how you would fit all those 12ga wires in one box! I did however manage to fit all my 14ga wires into a 4 gang masonry box (6 channel grafik eye).



Lutron recommends 12 gauge wire for the 6 zone units and 14 gauge for the 4-zone (and less) units. However, you can use 14 gauge with the 6 zone provided your total loads don't exceed the 20% de-rating of a 15 amp dedicated circuit. I have a small basement bar where total loads among 6 different zones of accent and task lighting is just under 700 watts. It's no problem for me to use 14 gauge in this situation and be concerned about heat or overload of circuit or switch.


----------



## J_P_A

If you have a 20 A breaker, you must use 12 AWG wire or larger (NEC 240.4 I believe). A 15 A breaker will protect a 14 AWG wire or larger. This is regardless of the load on it. The idea being the next guy that owns the house may come in and put a bunch more lights on there and burn down the house because he didn't know the breaker wasn't size correctly.


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_P_A*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23410816
> 
> 
> If you have a 20 A breaker, you must use 12 AWG wire or larger (NEC 240.4 I believe). A 15 A breaker will protect a 14 AWG wire or larger. This is regardless of the load on it. The idea being the next guy that owns the house may come in and put a bunch more lights on there and burn down the house because he didn't know the breaker wasn't size correctly.



+1. I was starting with the assumption that either a 15a with 14 gauge was being used with a 6 zone Eye or that a 20a with 12 gauge was being used with a 6 zone Eye, not 14 gauge on a 20 amp breaker or having a 12 gauge on a 20 amp circuit come into the box and the rest of the loads on 14 gauge. Like you said, all gauges must match and have the appropriately sized breaker.


If the question is can you use a 6 zone Grafik Eye with 14 gauge wire on a dedicated 15a circuit, the answer is yes, you can, provided that the total wattage load doesn't exceed the 20% derate of the 15a circuit (assuming this is a dedicated line). It will functionally work just fine. The 20 amp dedicated circuit and 12 gauge wiring requirement is assuming that 6 zones of lighting will have significant load which requires the higher rating.


Sorry for the confusion to anyone who got the same impression as JPA after reading my comment and thanks for clarifying!


----------



## J_P_A

I figured that's what you meant, but thought it was worth a quick clarification.


----------



## Gerry S

I just picked up a used grx-3004.


Does anyone know if there are any differences between a 3004 and a 3104?


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23493209
> 
> 
> I just picked up a used grx-3004.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any differences between a 3004 and a 3104?



This is the original Grafik Eye series. You should not see a difference in functionality, only setup and programming options. But communications bus protocols / commands, operation, integration with low-voltage keypads, etc. is all the same.


----------



## Gerry S

Thanks for the response. That's great news.


When I Googled that model I found very few results. Hopefully when I get ready to install it I can track down documentation or get the help I need here for setting it up.


----------



## TecNine

Can you guys confirm something for me? I'm looking at picking up a 3-zone Grafik Eye (3103) to control sconces, overhead cans, and one 3-way switch that controls my hallway lights. The other end of that 3-way switch is at the top of my stairs, and this is where my question is leading...


It sounds like I will need to replace my switch at the top of the stairs with a NTGRX-1S, and run a wire from that switch to my box (PELV). Is that correct? This will be moderately tricky to do in a retrofit, since the light at the top of the stairs is finished and enclose, but I might be able to pull it off. But, I'd like confirmation that I have all the pieces of this puzzle before proceeding. Can anyone confirm my plan (or shoot some holes in it!).


Thanks!


----------



## oman321

Actually the 1S uses regular electrical cable with the 3000 series.
http://site.electricsuppliesonline.com/documents/Lutron/ntgrx-1s.pdf 


I have a 1S in my setup, however understand that when you press the 1s button that brings the GE from off to scene 1. So scene 1 would be to turn on your hallway lights and perhaps whatever other lights you need to be on to the get to the GE for your next scene . When you're leaving it doesn't matter what scene you're leaving from, when you press the 1S again the lights will go to off.


----------



## Gerry S

I purchased a used unit and am having some trouble during testing.


It is a 3004, older unit. When I wire it up all LEDS on the unit are on, and stay on. I cannot enter setup mode by holding scene 1 and off.


Also I currently have no zones wired in. This is just with the hot, neutral and ground connected.


Any suggestions? Thanks.


----------



## Gerry S

Good news I figured it out.


I had to run a jumper from hot1 to hot2. Apparently both need to be fed. All along I thought you wired up hot1 and ignored hot 2.


All is well now!


----------



## RossoDiamante




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23407450
> 
> 
> 
> You are a bit off. You tie all the grounds together with a wire nut or push-in connector, including the wire coming from the panel, with a jumper (6 inch or so long piece) to run to the back of the GE. This essentially consolidates all the ground wires into one wire. You do the same with the neutrals. The hot (black) from the panel gets tied directly to the GE and then the hot from each load goes under the respective 1-6 terminal. Make sense?


 

Perfect.  That makes a lot more sense.  Easy modification!


----------



## wraunch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23526550
> 
> 
> I purchased a used unit and am having some trouble during testing.
> 
> 
> It is a 3004, older unit. When I wire it up all LEDS on the unit are on, and stay on. I cannot enter setup mode by holding scene 1 and off.
> 
> 
> Also I currently have no zones wired in. This is just with the hot, neutral and ground connected.
> 
> 
> Any suggestions? Thanks.



I have the 6 zone version of this same unit. I think we must have bought it from the same guy because mine has that same funky faux wood grain finish.


----------



## Gerry S

yes funky indeed










It looks like it came out of my Dad's den in the 70's.


You plan on taking a stab at painting it?


----------



## wraunch

Yep! I need it painted black.


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wraunch*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23537587
> 
> 
> Yep! I need it painted black.



Or you could just buy a replacement cover . . .


----------



## Gerry S

Well I will be relisting my funky 4 zone since I upgraded to a 6 zone. The model number I got is a GRX-IA-6, so I guess according to page 1 that is a 3506.


I really don't want to worry about an IR blaster or emitter to control the grafik eye and was curious about using the rs-232 serial commands.


I'm unsure if I need any other pieces of Lutron Hardware though.


Could I control my Grafik eye using an [email protected] remote, linked to a GC-100 OR iTACH with RS-232 serial output, connected to the Grafik Eye?


Hope I am making sense... Thanks.


----------



## TMcG

The Grafik Eye speaks RS-485. The Lutron GRX-IA232 offers bi-directional communication and translation between RS-232 and RS-485. You would then need an interface between TCP/IP to translate to an RS-232 signal if you went this route.


I always prefer bi-directional communication protocols, but IR is far less expensive. You least expensive option is to attach an emitter on the Grafik Eye's IR target, extend the emitter with Cat-5 back to the rack and then get a device that will translate your TCP/IP commands to IR.


----------



## eyekode

I ran a wire for IR on my QS but have not yet attached it to an IR emitter.


I am quite impressed with how well the IR reciever works on the unit. It has been very reliable. I point the remote 90 degrees from the screen and it still has worked 100% of the time for last couple months!

Salem


----------



## Gerry S

Thanks TMcG. Do you know if you could use a GRX-CI-PRG in place of a GRX-IA232?


----------



## Gerry S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eyekode*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23549339
> 
> 
> I ran a wire for IR on my QS but have not yet attached it to an IR emitter.
> 
> 
> I am quite impressed with how well the IR reciever works on the unit. It has been very reliable. I point the remote 90 degrees from the screen and it still has worked 100% of the time for last couple months!
> 
> Salem



That's good to know. I plan on using a Wi-Fi based remote, but it sounds like sticking a blaster in my soffit or sticking an emitter on it are both good options.


----------



## danielrg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23549970
> 
> 
> Thanks TMcG. Do you know if you could use a GRX-CI-PRG in place of a GRX-IA232?



The GRX-CI-PRG may be programmed to control any combination of one to eight GRAFIK Eye 3000 or 4000 series control units.


Same as the GRX-IA-RS232. Except the GRX-CI-PRG is nicer because it supports Ethernet in addition to RS232 (may also be nicer in a couple other ways too)


----------



## danielrg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danielrg*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_23550006
> 
> 
> The GRX-CI-PRG may be programmed to control any combination of one to eight GRAFIK Eye 3000 or 4000 series control units.
> 
> 
> Same as the GRX-IA-RS232. Except the GRX-CI-PRG is nicer because it supports Ethernet in addition to RS232 (may also be nicer in a couple other ways too)



Sorry, I forgot to add that these are NOT compatible with the Grafik Eye QS series. There is a different set of controllers for the Grafik Eye QS series


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350#post_23549970
> 
> 
> Thanks TMcG. Do you know if you could use a GRX-CI-PRG in place of a GRX-IA232?



That will work, but it includes a lot of features you would NEVER use. The stripped down version of the GRX-CI-PRG is the GRX-CI-NWK-E which gets you exactly what you need. However, both of these devices are very pricey and I am sure you could source a used GRX-IA232 and then buy a TCP/IP to RS-232 adapter for far less than a single one of these updated units would cost. Something to think about.


----------



## Gerry S

Was watching a GRX-CI-PRG but it ended up selling for more than I was willing to pay.


I'll keep my eyes open for an GRX-IA232 or just go IR.


Thanks for all the great advice.


----------



## tbraden32

Is the Lutron Grafik Eye QS Model QSRGJ-8E which is 8 zone unit equivalent to a 3000 series dimmer? Meaning can it be used alone or would I need more to make it functional? What are the differences and advantages?


----------



## mrevo2u

Can a GE 3104 control each zone separately or are you limited to the four 'scenes'. Example is if you are watching moviies with scene 2 active, but want the cans just a bit brighter.


----------



## krakhen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrevo2u*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24007103
> 
> 
> Can a GE 3104 control each zone separately or are you limited to the four 'scenes'. Example is if you are watching moviies with scene 2 active, but want the cans just a bit brighter.


Zones have their individual controls, so yes. Scenes are just presets.


----------



## mrevo2u

Perfect; thank you


----------



## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrevo2u*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24007103
> 
> 
> Can a GE 3104 control each zone separately or are you limited to the four 'scenes'. Example is if you are watching moviies with scene 2 active, but want the cans just a bit brighter.



You can trim each light individually, but I believe you need to be at the GE wall station to do so. You can switch scenes either remotely, or at the wall station. You can adjust all lights up or down and off or on simultaneously either way, also.


----------



## jchasen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jedi*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1350_50#post_24007960
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrevo2u*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24007103
> 
> 
> Can a GE 3104 control each zone separately or are you limited to the four 'scenes'. Example is if you are watching moviies with scene 2 active, but want the cans just a bit brighter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can trim each light individually, but I believe you need to be at the GE wall station to do so. You can switch scenes either remotely, or at the wall station. You can adjust all lights up or down and off or on simultaneously either way, also.
Click to expand...


Actually, there are available IR codes (in Pronto Hex format) for individually raising or lowering each zone, as well as activating scenes, and performing master raise and lower commands. So it's not a problem if you just want to "brighten your cans".

lutrongrafikeyeircommands-GRX_ALL_IR.xls 118k .xls file


----------



## cdepaola

Walked into a project that has what appears to be a Grafix Eye 4000 controller. It operates one room and 4 zones, it has no other control outside of 2 two button key pads.


I know nothing of these systems, can it simply be removed and standard switches be put in place?


----------



## Tedd

Likely a programmable remote..., And those pair of 2 button wall stations are likely 1s and

would represent off and scene 1.


Why remove what is a feature?


----------



## cdepaola

Because its old and doesn't serve our purpose any longer. We'd like to put in standard single pole switches and possibly down the road move to a Control4 or Crestron system.


I understand standard electrical installs but this thing looks noting like standard. The more I research this I have a feeling I'm missing something still like a panel someplace that I haven't found yet. The back of the Grafik Eye has connectors labeled SSA, SSA RTN, 2 IN - OUT, 1IN-OUT.


No romex, everything is in conduit. I really wish these boxes simply had a hot, neutral and a load wire.


This is going to be a pain in the rear isn't it?


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cdepaola*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24032625
> 
> 
> Walked into a project that has what appears to be a Grafix Eye 4000 controller. It operates one room and 4 zones, it has no other control outside of 2 two button key pads.
> 
> 
> I know nothing of these systems, can it simply be removed and standard switches be put in place?



It depends on the high voltage wiring that's in the wall. A 4 zone Grafik Eye uses a 3 gang box. You will need four switches, one for each zone, so one switch will have to be a double switch just to fit in the box. The complicating issue is the secondary controls. Wiring these in a new installation, it is unlikely there is a 3 wire romex running to these other accessory locations so you can install 3-way (or 3-way and a 4-way) switch to activate a light zone in the room. Code states that any entrance to the room you have to have a switch to turn on the lights within 3 feet. If a 3-wire is not installed in these secondary locations, you will be breaking code because there would be no way to turn on lights except at the original Grafik Eye location.


The alternative is to move into a Radio Ra2 system, but I'm with Tedd.....why remove this system in the first place??? Enjoy it!


----------



## krakhen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cdepaola*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24033243
> 
> 
> Because its old and doesn't serve our purpose any longer. We'd like to put in standard single pole switches and possibly down the road move to a Control4 or Crestron system.
> 
> 
> I understand standard electrical installs but this thing looks noting like standard. The more I research this I have a feeling I'm missing something still like a panel someplace that I haven't found yet. The back of the Grafik Eye has connectors labeled SSA, SSA RTN, 2 IN - OUT, 1IN-OUT.
> 
> 
> No romex, everything is in conduit. I really wish these boxes simply had a hot, neutral and a load wire.
> 
> 
> This is going to be a pain in the rear isn't it?



Well, the thing is... that if it's indeed a GE 4000 series controller, then it is only a control and not managing any load. There should indeed be a power panel somewhere, or maybe there isn't one any more(removed?) In any case, AFAIK only low voltage cabling reach those 4000's


----------



## cdepaola

Ok, got to do some more research. I do indeed have an intact Grafik Eye 4000 system, that is currently functional, the controller is a GRX-4504. I've also found an attached, and functioning RS-232 module, which I'm hoping is a good thing.


I have a Control4 system in place and found that there are drivers for the Grafix Eye QS system, but not specifically the 4000. From what I've read the RS-232 module is the same and the commands are the same? With that said I'm again going to assume that these drivers should work.


Now, first question...


I need to get the address's for the RS232 module as well as the Grafix Eye. How can I do this?


----------



## Tedd

 http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/WiringDiagrams.aspx 


All the manuals are on Lutron's website......


----------



## orcarola25

Hello there,


I am getting to the tail end of my dedicated theater build and am almost set on purchasing a grafik eye qs 6 zone unit. Before I go for it, I had a quick question. I am sure users around the forums have controlled LED strip lights through their grafik eye. My setup consists of 4ea 16ft 5050 LED strips lights with 2 signal amplifiers and a 350watt power supply. My question is more for verification purposes as I think I know the answer.


Do I install the low voltage power supply powering the strip lights before the grafik eye input or after. I am assuming before because you wouldnt want to have a variable input voltage going into the power supply (i.e. when dimming the GE). Am I correct in this assumption?


Thanks in


----------



## wraunch

Can you list what LED rope components you're using? I need a similar setup but with 6 strips.


----------



## Jedi

Orca, the Grafik Eye has only a single line voltage input, and from there modified output power goes to the individual zone loads, either directly or through certain interfaces. That said, I would be skeptical that the 5050 LED set-up you are contemplating could be made compatible with the GE.


----------



## TMcG

 @orcarola25 , @wraunch , @Jedi 


Mr. Tim successfully integrated the 5050 LED light strips with a Grafik Eye, but you need to get a high quality magnetic or dimming power supply, plus a Lutron TVI interface. Fair warning - the relay "click" in the TVI is fairly loud, so you'll want to make sure it is located well outside the soundproof shell if you don't want to hear it.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426519/mr-tims-15x27-theater/270#post_23173244 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426519/mr-tims-15x27-theater/270#post_23200309 


EDIT: For clarity, the TVI, magnetic power supply and LED lights were one zone of the Grafik Eye.


----------



## orcarola25

Hey thanks for the responses guys. It sounds to me like being these to integrate with the grafik eye is not as simple as I thought. I am thinking of just forgetting the integration and having a separate control for the soffit and stair lighting. Not a show stopper in my eyes.


Wraunch- I bought a 5050 light kit with the rgb controller, remote, and power supply (which in not using) and then 3 individual 5050 reels for a total of 4 reels. I bought a y-splitter so that I can run two reels in either direction. I bought 2 signal amplifiers to hook in between reels, 2 16.4 ft DC extension cables which is required to power the rgb amplifiers, and finally a meanwell 350w per supply. This was all manufacture recommended as I did my research as well as called the company for hardware recommendations.

Hope this helps


----------



## wraunch

Where did you buy your supplies?


----------



## orcarola25

Amazon. I can pm you the links later when I get home. For me it wasn't as plug and play as I thought it would be because I was using more then one reel of the 5050 light strips (300 per reel). You can run two standard reels (150 lights) off of the supplies transformer. Makes it a little easier to accommodate longer runs without having to run signal amplifiers and larger power supplies.


----------



## DigitalJackson

I have a Grafik Eye 3000 intalled in my theater room and would like to add an accessory control outside the room. I don't need full control of the Grafik Eye, just some sort of switch to access one stored scene would work so that I can enter the room with lights already on. Does a relatively cheap solution exist ($30-50). I looked at wall stations and other Lutron accessory controls but all seem overly expensive and complex for my needs.


----------



## TMcG

Unless you get lucky on eBay, you have to pay the piper.


----------



## DigitalJackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24695584
> 
> 
> Unless you get lucky on eBay, you have to pay the piper.



Thanks, this is what I figured. Will any wall station work with the Grafik Eye? Found a LUTRON CC-4BRL-WH very cheap on Ebay.


LUTRON CC-4BRL-WH

The 4-Button Wallstation recalls lighting presets for a group

of EcoSystem ballasts or ballast modules. They wallstation

provides a programming point for all devices in the system.

The wallstation connects directly to the EcoSystem ballast

or ballast module via low voltage wiring.

Features

• Wires Class 2 Low Voltage

• Mounts easily in any single-gang wallbox

• 4 Preset as well as All on and All off

• Raise/Lower rocker controls all assigned ballasts

• Built-in infrared receiver allows wallstation to be used as a

programming point for EcoSystem

• Programming signals (IR) are received through the plastic

button (maximum distance of 10 feet)

• Programming of control groups can be performed at the

wallstation

• Programming of scene levels can be performed at the

wallstation

• Multi-color LED to indicate button presses, programming

mode, and reception of infrared signals only

• Green LEDs shall be on at all times and operate as a “night

light”

• Red LEDs shall indicate programming mode is active

• Fits any designer (Claro®) opening faceplates

• Faceplate not included

Note

• Zone toggle and unaffected zone not supported in this

model

• This product is designed to control a single ballast or group

of ballasts or modules

• A second 4B control in the same group will perform the

same function (recalls the same 4 scenes)


----------



## oman321

That unit is not compatible with GE.

http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-NTGRX-1S-WH-Scene-Ntgrx-Remote/dp/B004XIEO2K 


For your need I would recommend the 1S. It is basically an on off accessory switch. It will go to scene 1 from off and to off from any scene. If I recall correctly it uses regular electrical cable vs. the more difficult to find low voltage insulated cable.


Edit: I double checked, yeah it uses regular electrical cable.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147


And you can get the pieces in different colors. I couldn't find an NTGRX in anything but white, but the square button and the entire bezel are removable/interchangeable, and I was able to find a source to get them in black and "bronze." So I bought the white NTGRX for its electronics, and then bought different color plastic pieces for the decor.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24695937
> 
> 
> Edit: I double checked, yeah it uses regular electrical cable.


 

True, for the 3000 series that DigitalJackson has.

 

For others who may read this discussion in the future, the 4000 series does require the PELV cable.


----------



## eyekode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *orcarola25*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24562981
> 
> 
> Hello there,
> 
> 
> I am getting to the tail end of my dedicated theater build and am almost set on purchasing a grafik eye qs 6 zone unit. Before I go for it, I had a quick question. I am sure users around the forums have controlled LED strip lights through their grafik eye. My setup consists of 4ea 16ft 5050 LED strips lights with 2 signal amplifiers and a 350watt power supply. My question is more for verification purposes as I think I know the answer.
> 
> 
> Do I install the low voltage power supply powering the strip lights before the grafik eye input or after. I am assuming before because you wouldnt want to have a variable input voltage going into the power supply (i.e. when dimming the GE). Am I correct in this assumption?
> 
> 
> Thanks in



I have a very similar setup. I just use one channel for the led's and set the channel to not dim. So it works like a light switch. Works well for me!

Salem


----------



## DigitalJackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oman321*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1380#post_24695937
> 
> 
> That unit is not compatible with GE.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-NTGRX-1S-WH-Scene-Ntgrx-Remote/dp/B004XIEO2K
> 
> 
> For your need I would recommend the 1S. It is basically an on off accessory switch. It will go to scene 1 from off and to off from any scene. If I recall correctly it uses regular electrical cable vs. the more difficult to find low voltage insulated cable.
> 
> 
> Edit: I double checked, yeah it uses regular electrical cable.



That's exactly what I'm looking for ...thank you!


----------



## thestoneman

Pretty sure I am going with a 6 Zone QS system. I haven't read the whole thread and I've spent some time on the Lutron site, but I can't seem to get definitive info on any additional parts I will need other than the control unit. I've been told that when you buy anything Lutron you are inevitably going to need to buy another part to make the system work.


I am controlling one room and would like a remote. Any help on a basic parts list would be great.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thestoneman*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24707188
> 
> 
> Pretty sure I am going with a 6 Zone QS system. I haven't read the whole thread and I've spent some time on the Lutron site, but I can't seem to get definitive info on any additional parts I will need other than the control unit. I've been told that when you buy anything Lutron you are inevitably going to need to buy another part to make the system work.
> 
> 
> I am controlling one room and would like a remote. Any help on a basic parts list would be great.



As long as you figure out the correct part to order (base color, cover color, etc.), there's nothing else required... Assuming you have the deep 4-gang box to mount it in.


----------



## thestoneman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24707547
> 
> 
> As long as you figure out the correct part to order (base color, cover color, etc.), there's nothing else required... Assuming you have the deep 4-gang box to mount it in.



Great news. I didn't want to assume anything and couldn't find concrete answers on extra equipment.


----------



## thestoneman

I am installing a GRX-3106 in a few weeks and I'm hoping for a rec on good dimmable rope lights. I can't find anything recent using the search function. Thanks AVS!


----------



## Schlemstar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thestoneman*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24747462
> 
> 
> I am installing a GRX-3106 in a few weeks and I'm hoping for a rec on good dimmable rope lights. I can't find anything recent using the search function. Thanks AVS!



I used 120v LED rope light from orangetreetrade.com. The key though is to have enough of it on the zone to present enough of a load to dim properly. I have about 35 feet on one zone, and it does not dim out all the way. It dims smoothly, but at the point where it should probably dim out, it brightens just a bit instead. I have another 10ft strand on a zone with some other lights, which presents a larger load to the controller, and which in turn does dim out properly. I think the minimum draw on one zone needs to be about 35 watts. Hope that helps.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thestoneman*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24747462
> 
> 
> I am installing a GRX-3106 in a few weeks and I'm hoping for a rec on good dimmable rope lights. I can't find anything recent using the search function. Thanks AVS!



I got mine from 1000bulbs, using plain 120V incandescent, and as Schlemstar says, it's just a matter of having enough load presented. In my case I had 200' so it wasn't going to be a problem. Just look at the "watts per foot" rating and calculate from there. GrafikEye minimum load is only 25W...


----------



## thestoneman

Would you recommend against using 12V LED's? I realize that requires a power supply to step up to 120 on the primary side.


I didn't realize incandescent rope lighting was available. I'll check out the sources you mentioned. Thank you!


----------



## TMcG

You can use 12v lighting, provided the power supply you use is magnetic or switching and is otherwise denoted as "dimmable". These are the most expensive types of power supplies, so it's probably better to just get 120v rope light straight away.


And if you find you don't have enough load on any one zone, you can install an in-line 120v resistor of whatever wattage you need to compensate for the difference.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147


I used 120v LED rope lighting from Bird Dog Distributing.  I feel that it dims quite well on my GRX-3106.

 

One of my zones only has about 7 feet of rope light (stairs) so that is about 5W of power. I did purchase a Lutron synthetic load to bring the total zone up to 25W. It was expensive, in a relative manner. As TMcG suggests, a simple resistor will do the same job. Just make sure it has room to dissipate heat, because its sole job will be to turn electricity into heat.


----------



## jautor

And if you're buying LEDs to save energy / heat - note that adding dummy loads to meet the minimums is truly "wasting" energy... I looked at LEDs for my rope, but given then significant cost delta, low usage and ease of dimming - I chose the 120V incandescent...


----------



## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24751773
> 
> 
> And if you're buying LEDs to save energy / heat - note that adding dummy loads to meet the minimums is truly "wasting" energy... I looked at LEDs for my rope, but given then significant cost delta, low usage and ease of dimming - I chose the 120V incandescent...



+1 - exactly what I did. Plus the incandescent can truly dim to extremely low levels....the LEDs have a lower limit before they start to flicker, generally at about 20-25% of their _lumen_ output.

*THIS* is what I bought from 1000bulbs.com - $65 for 150 feet of warm incandescent rope light with a free shipping coupon code.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147


I chose LED rope more for the life expectancy than the power dissipation.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sands_at_Pier147*  /t/557480/the-definitive-grafik-eye-master-thread/1410#post_24752095
> 
> 
> I chose LED rope more for the life expectancy than the power dissipation.



With the low-to-moderate hours / month of usage most of these ropes probably get, I suspect most of us will have moved before any of these fail from actual lamp failure...


----------



## SethMan919

I tried searching this thread for humming,buzzing and didnt find much help. I bought my house with my theater already in it. It has a Grafik eye installed. I'm unsure exactly what model. I will look when i get home if it needs to be know. One of the settings is with all the sconces dimmed very low and the rope lights up. It looks great, but the sconce incandescents hum like crazy. can anyone recommend a bulb that wont make noise. I like having the sconces on very dim, but just cant live with the noise.


----------



## TMcG

SethMan919 said:


> I tried searching this thread for humming,buzzing and didnt find much help. I bought my house with my theater already in it. It has a Grafik eye installed. I'm unsure exactly what model. I will look when i get home if it needs to be know. One of the settings is with all the sconces dimmed very low and the rope lights up. It looks great, but the sconce incandescents hum like crazy. can anyone recommend a bulb that wont make noise. I like having the sconces on very dim, but just cant live with the noise.


Use a high-quality Philips bulb. You will be amazed with the difference.


----------



## SethMan919

TMcG said:


> SethMan919 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I tried searching this thread for humming,buzzing and didnt find much help. I bought my house with my theater already in it. It has a Grafik eye installed. I'm unsure exactly what model. I will look when i get home if it needs to be know. One of the settings is with all the sconces dimmed very low and the rope lights up. It looks great, but the sconce incandescents hum like crazy. can anyone recommend a bulb that wont make noise. I like having the sconces on very dim, but just cant live with the noise.
> 
> 
> 
> Use a high-quality Philips bulb. You will be amazed with the difference.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Do you have a link to these? Cool to see you're in NC too. I'm in Apex.


----------



## TMcG

SethMan919 said:


> Thanks, Do you have a link to these? Cool to see you're in NC too. I'm in Apex.


Philips makes 100s of different bulbs and you did not mention what type of bulbs your sconces take. If you Google "Philips xxx bulb" where xxx is your type and wattage of bulb, it should pull up plenty of options from the shopping sites.


----------



## helmsman

Faceplates: does anyone have a recommendation for a good source for Grafik Eye faceplates? I''m looking for a black faceplate for my 3104 to go better with my color scheme - replacing the original translucent-black/white faceplate. I saw one a while ago on eBay but missed it. I found one merchant but they wanted over 100 bucks for one! Thanks!


----------



## jautor

helmsman said:


> Faceplates: does anyone have a recommendation for a good source for Grafik Eye faceplates? I''m looking for a black faceplate for my 3104 to go better with my color scheme - replacing the original translucent-black/white faceplate. I saw one a while ago on eBay but missed it. I found one merchant but they wanted over 100 bucks for one! Thanks!


Paul @ Hank's Electric hangs out here on the forum...


----------



## doublewing11

Electrician has spec-ed Cat 5 cable to pull from GE to rack. This doesn't make sense to me. Is there a specific comm wire I need to source and pass on to electrician?

Many thanks.....


----------



## TMcG

*THIS* wire from Liberty Cable is the alternative (one of many, actually, like *THIS one from West Penn wire*) to *genuine Lutron GRX wire*.

Spec is 2x22 gauge stranded copper for data/communications with tinned drain wire and wrapped with foil shield and 2x18 gauge stranded copper for power and ground (common). As long as the wire meets this spec, it will work with Lutron (and AMX, Crestron, Elan) for the data bus and power the devices as per the manufacturer's specs.


----------



## wraunch

Ok so my GRX-3006 is giving me a ton of problems. I tried to use all LED lights with it and that doesn't seem to be working. Although it did for a while now it is acting flaky even though nothing has changed. I have swapped a bunch of my 4" cans from LEDs to halogens (GE Reveal PAR16 Floods). The GE will work fine for say 20 mins then it cuts all the lights off then they come right back on, stay on for 5 mins then right back off. Also I am getting an intermittent flicker from some of the remaining LEDs when they are at 0 power.


----------



## wraunch

Anyone else run into this? I'm about ready to rip out the GE and just use individual dimmers and say to hell with it.


----------



## helmsman

I have a mix of halogens and programmable-multi-color LEDs controlled by my GRX-3104 and have no problems. HOWEVER - when I was installing them I read that you need a switching module for the LEDs, which I went ahead and procured and installed. So the LEDs (which shine onto my screen, all on one zone) and their transformer are wired through this switching module (PHPM-SW-DV-WH) and this setup works perfectly. The only downside is that you can't dim the LEDs, they're either on or off, but that's okay because when they're on I would only want them on full brightness anyway, I just miss out on the dim-on or dim-off effect that I get with all my other lighting zones.


----------



## oman321

wraunch said:


> Ok so my GRX-3006 is giving me a ton of problems. I tried to use all LED lights with it and that doesn't seem to be working. Although it did for a while now it is acting flaky even though nothing has changed. I have swapped a bunch of my 4" cans from LEDs to halogens (GE Reveal PAR16 Floods). The GE will work fine for say 20 mins then it cuts all the lights off then they come right back on, stay on for 5 mins then right back off. Also I am getting an intermittent flicker from some of the remaining LEDs when they are at 0 power.



I have one zone for my LED rope lights on a 3106. I have this zone wired up with the step lights in my riser. 

The GE's need a minimum load of 25w per zone. It can be tricky to meet that minimum with LED's thus requiring an additional device as helmsman mentions. By wiring the step lights of my riser with the LED rope lights in overhead crown molding I was able to achieve the necessary wattage for the zone to work properly. 

If I remove the bulbs from the step light fixtures the zone begins to act flaky. The rope light will not dim properly, rather it will go down to about 20 percent then there is noticeable jump down in brightness all of a sudden. When set all the way off it will not actually turn off but flicker really fast. So long as I have the step lights in place, it all works as it should, including dimming up and the LED rope lights.


----------



## wraunch

helmsman said:


> I have a mix of halogens and programmable-multi-color LEDs controlled by my GRX-3104 and have no problems. HOWEVER - when I was installing them I read that you need a switching module for the LEDs, which I went ahead and procured and installed. So the LEDs (which shine onto my screen, all on one zone) and their transformer are wired through this switching module (PHPM-SW-DV-WH) and this setup works perfectly. The only downside is that you can't dim the LEDs, they're either on or off, but that's okay because when they're on I would only want them on full brightness anyway, I just miss out on the dim-on or dim-off effect that I get with all my other lighting zones.


 
Where did you put that switching module, inside the wall?


----------



## wraunch

The LEDs I am using are 12.5 watts each. I have two on one zone and four on another. The two flicker unless I have all lights completely off.


----------



## TMcG

Lutron has 100% free technical support for residential customers like yourself and an ever-expanding LED light compatibility list broken down by manufacturer and product/model number. I'd call them first.

My suspicion is that if your fixtures are 12.5 watts each at 100%, that when you dim the load you are dipping below the 25 watt total load threshold, thereby causing the flickering you see. The digital dimming driver of the Grafik Eye may not be compatible with the digital LED driver in your bulbs as well. Just spitballing here, but that's my suspicion.


----------



## deewan

Hey guys, I've tried searching the web and this thread and haven't really found an answer. I have a GRX-3104 and I am curious if there is a way to control the individual zones within a scene via IR. A similar question was asked in this thread but I never saw an answer.

I would like to have the ability to select one of the 4 scenes, and then tweak that scene by raising or lowering the lights of zone 1, 2, or 3 only.

Thanks!!!


----------



## TMcG

deewan said:


> Hey guys, I've tried searching the web and this thread and haven't really found an answer. I have a GRX-3104 and I am curious if there is a way to control the individual zones within a scene via IR. A similar question was asked in this thread but I never saw an answer.
> 
> I would like to have the ability to select one of the 4 scenes, and then tweak that scene by raising or lowering the lights of zone 1, 2, or 3 only.
> 
> Thanks!!!


There are available IR commands called Lutron Pro IR Command sets. *Here* is a link to the Lutron Technical document.

*Remotecentral.com* has the entire Lutron library, including the codes you are looking for. Most are available for the Pronto or URC as they are the most ubiquitous learning remotes.


----------



## deewan

TMcG said:


> There are available IR commands called Lutron Pro IR Command sets. *Here* is a link to the Lutron Technical document.
> 
> *Remotecentral.com* has the entire Lutron library, including the codes you are looking for. Most are available for the Pronto or URC as they are the most ubiquitous learning remotes.


Thank you so much!!! I had looked for this info a few times and for whatever reason didn't stumble upon it.


----------



## helmsman

wraunch said:


> Where did you put that switching module, inside the wall?


Yes, sort of. It's inside a framed enclosure on my screen wall for my left and right speakers. The reason for this was to make it (and the low voltage transformer) accessible. They're right next to eachother, both attached to the stud in separate electrical mounting boxes.


----------



## wraunch

If someone wants a GE let me know. I have a GRX-3006 that I couldn't get to work with my LEDs but it dims and controls halogens and incandescents like a charm. I'll let it go for what I paid. $300 shipped CONUS. PM for details. Add 3% for paypal fees. SOLD


----------



## mrevo2u

Been contemplating a 3104 for my theater, but if I only have 2 zones for dimming and one switch, would it be easier/cheaper to just use lutron IR dimmers?


----------



## oman321

If you're talking about the Maestro Lutron dimmers that are IR remote controlled they are about 40 bucks each. Trouble is you don't have independent control of them. You can setup a different preset for each one and when you hit the preset button each one would go to that programmed preset but otherwise one IR command would affect all of them.


----------



## AXLCMT

I plan on buying a Lutron Grafik Eye QS 6 Zone and my can lights are already in the ceiling (about 10 of them) and the dry wall is up.

I have about 3 light switches (that by the way have a "dimmer slider" right next to each on/off button on each switch, but when you move the "dimmer sliders" on each switch, nothing happens to the 10 can lights I am referring to ie they don't dim at all, just an FYI) at the entrance of the room that controls
all 10 can lights.

I also plan on buying a Lutron Switch that has 3-4 buttons that will connect to the Grafik Eye via the standard PELV cable which Hanks Electronics sells by the foot. 

I am guessing that all of the Can Light wires are connected to these 3-5 switches at the entrance way.

I guess it will be easier to install the Grafik Eye main unit at the entrance way because it will be nearly impossible to pull all of the electric wire for all of the can lights to a new location in the room rather than keep them where they are????

Also, I have review the Grafik Eye QS Wiring diagram and I know that each load goes to each screw load on the Grafik Eye unit. I am also aware that you must "daisy chain" each load of can lights on their own "daisy chained load" back to the Grafik Eye. All 10 of these Can Lights will be considered 1 Load. 

My other loads on the Grafik Eye will be the following

Load 2: Can lights above the Screen
Load 3: Rope Lights in the Tray Ceiling
Load 4: Can Lights on the left and right sides of the room in the Soffits
Load 5: Rope Lights under the stage and riser

The question I have is in regards to the existing Can Lights (10) in the ceiling.

How do I Daisy Chain them to turn all 10 into 1 Load if they are already daisy chained into certain "groups" already (each group controlled by 1 of each of the 3 switches on the wall). How do I "unlink" each group of lights on the 3 switches so that I can turn all 10 of them into 1 "daisy chained" load? Do I have to rip drywall out of the ceiling to see how these lights are connected to each other and rip apart their connections to reconnect them all into 1 "daisy chained" load?

I also want to install a "Room Occupancy Sensor" and connect the Grafik Eye to a XanTech IR Blaster which will be in the front of the room so that I do not have to keep pointing the Universal Remote behind me where I want to put the Grafik Eye.

Any reaction to all of this?

By the way, I am reading this book over and over again so that I can save money instead of paying an electrician because of a very very tight budget I have.

http://www.amazon.com/Decker-Complete-Wiring-Updated-Edition/dp/159186612X


----------



## oman321

The way the lights are probably wired if the are on the same circuit is as follows. 

Power comes into the box where all the switches are located. 

______
Load 

Then it is probably split or pigtailed to each switch. 

Wiring for switches 123 continue to each light that they control.

Essentially you would now have the load going into the GE then a pigtail out of chosen zone of the GE to connect the 3 lines that lead to the lights you're referring to. 

Tried to do a crude layout for you but it doesn't line up right once I post.


----------



## AXLCMT

oman321 said:


> The way the lights are probably wired if the are on the same circuit is as follows.
> 
> Power comes into the box where all the switches are located.
> 
> ______
> Load
> 
> Then it is probably split or pigtailed to each switch.
> 
> Wiring for switches 123 continue to each light that they control.
> 
> Essentially you would now have the load going into the GE then a pigtail out of chosen zone of the GE to connect the 3 lines that lead to the lights you're referring to.
> 
> Tried to do a crude layout for you but it doesn't line up right once I post.


Thanks oman, I understand without a diagram, but thank you for the thought and work of attempting to make a diagram for me. 

I think I understand what you mean. The power load directly from the circuit breaker at the panel is going directly to one of the 3 switches. Now I just have to connect the Power Load wire from the Circtuit Breaker/Panel directly to the "Power In" location on the Grafik Eye, then "pigtail" all of the Can Lights together in the proper way so that there ends up being only "One Line of wire" that represents my now "daisy chained" 10 can lights, which goes into and connects to the screw/input of my Load 1 on the Grafik Eye.

But are all of my current 10 Can Lights in question already "daisy chained" in some way if all three switches have the "dimmer sliders" on them already? Are you assuming that all 10 Can Lights have "individual" wires going back to three switches instead of them "connecting to each other somewhere far away from the switches"? What if the latter scenario is the case and I don't see all "10 can light" wires sitting behind the wall at the location of my 3 switches?

Is there any chance that between the 10 Can Lights, only, lets say for example, only 3 wires representing them are going back to the switches because of a "daisy chain" design already incorporated into the wiring layout, or is that impossible making your scenario of all 10 Can light wires being accessible at the current 3 light switches?

I am also aware that I have to check the model numbers of each Can Light currently installed to make sure that they are already "dimmable" (which may be why they do not work now with regards to the dimmer function on all of the current switches). Do I have to open up the drywall next to each Can Light in order to find out the model number of each Can Light or can I find out without having to open up the drywall to find out their model number (by maybe just unscrewing the light bulb and looking for a model number in that area)?


----------



## oman321

Are all 3 switches in the same box? 

What kind of lights are you using? 

Recessed cans should for the most part be dimmable, it's usually the light type that causes issues. CFL or Led will cause issues with those slider dimmers. Incandescent would probably work.


----------



## AXLCMT

oman321 said:


> Are all 3 switches in the same box?
> 
> What kind of lights are you using?
> 
> Recessed cans should for the most part be dimmable, it's usually the light type that causes issues. CFL or Led will cause issues with those slider dimmers. Incandescent would probably work.


Thanks again Oman. I have not even moved into the home yet. Our Closing Day is one day next week. I will take plenty of photos and give you better updates when I have better access.


----------



## oman321

Ah ok. I was concerned that those 3 switches may be at 3 different locations controlling all 10 lights which would be a whole different ball game.


----------



## AXLCMT

By the way, I may want to install a Lutron Occupancy Sensor.
Would this work with a Lutron Grafik Eye QS? Also, where would be the best place to put it if the entrance to the basement home theater is in the back/center of the room?

I hope I'm allowed to post this link without breaking any rules. I don't want an infraction.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/4442110226353941098?q=lutron+occupancy+sensor&espv=2&biw=1745&bih=824&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&ion=1&bvm=pv.xjs.s.en_US.9YGum3Fv7uk.O&tch=1&ech=1&psi=R5IhVPW1DsXy8AGF2YGACg.1411486375812.3&ei=jZIhVISQE8WeyASlzYDgBQ&ved=0COMDEKYrMBM


----------



## oman321

The Maestro line is a stand alone product not compatible with the GE's.

Here is a link to their compatible accessories. 

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/SingleRoomControls/GrafikEyeQS/Components.aspx

They have a ceiling mount occupancy sensor. Not sure you would need this. When you come in you'll likely have access to the main unit or wall unit. Go to your preferred scene. Then when you sit down to watch something you can either set up to automatically dim or go to off when you press play (assuming universal learning remote and you integrate IR control of the GE) and back up when you press stop. Or simply programs the scenes you want and you select once everyone is sitting down comfortably. 

Occupancy sensor IMO is only useful for on an off situation with constant movement in the room, but that may be issue with everyone sitting down for a movie and you have a certain scene on then "click lights off" head movement "click back on"


----------



## AXLCMT

Thanks Oman. I agree, now that you explained it, therefore I won't want an occupancy sensor. I will definitely have a Lutron Switch of some kind at the entrance and/or the main Lutron Grafik Eye QS on the wall at the back entrance. If I put the actual Lutron Grafik Eye QS at the room entrance, then I may be able to save money by not having to purchase and install a separate Lutron On/Off switch?




oman321 said:


> The Maestro line is a stand alone product not compatible with the GE's.
> 
> Here is a link to their compatible accessories.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/SingleRoomControls/GrafikEyeQS/Components.aspx
> 
> They have a ceiling mount occupancy sensor. Not sure you would need this. When you come in you'll likely have access to the main unit or wall unit. Go to your preferred scene. Then when you sit down to watch something you can either set up to automatically dim or go to off when you press play (assuming universal learning remote and you integrate IR control of the GE) and back up when you press stop. Or simply programs the scenes you want and you select once everyone is sitting down comfortably.
> 
> Occupancy sensor IMO is only useful for on an off situation with constant movement in the room, but that may be issue with everyone sitting down for a movie and you have a certain scene on then "click lights off" head movement "click back on"


----------



## oman321

That makes sense. You simply need to run a wire for you to connect to the IR receiver of the QS from you IR repeater system and you'll be able to control lights from the comfort of your seat. That or have the QS in line of site to an IR blaster.


----------



## AXLCMT

Just a quick question about the connectivity of the zones and a Lutron Grafik Eye QS.

If I already have about 12 can lights installed at various locations through out the ceiling 
and they are controlled by 3 different light switches respectively, and I want to install a Lutron
Graphic Eye and put all 12 lights on the same zone and then add some additional zones.

If presumably these 12 can lights are already in series and turned on by their own switches (12 lights divided by 3 switches = 4 lights controlled
per switch) when I "open up the switch covers" and "start to wire them up for the Grafik Eye" will I be able to wire all 12 lights considering "their current
wiring layout" to put them all on 1 zone?


----------



## TMcG

AXLCMT said:


> Just a quick question about the connectivity of the zones and a Lutron Grafik Eye QS.
> 
> If I already have about 12 can lights installed at various locations through out the ceiling
> and they are controlled by 3 different light switches respectively, and I want to install a Lutron
> Graphic Eye and put all 12 lights on the same zone and then add some additional zones.
> 
> If presumably these 12 can lights are already in series and turned on by their own switches (12 lights divided by 3 switches = 4 lights controlled
> per switch) when I "open up the switch covers" and "start to wire them up for the Grafik Eye" will I be able to wire all 12 lights considering "their current
> wiring layout" to put them all on 1 zone?


Are there any 3-way switches to these lights? Have you investigated where your hot is coming into the box? These are questions that must be answered to understand how your switches are currently wired.

But let's just say that your hot comes into a single three gang box with the three switches and is split into three leads, one for each switch. So all the grounds and commons are already tied together and there is a single hot attached to each of the three switches. To replace these switches with a Grafik Eye all you would do is directly connect the single hot from the panel (black wire) to the Grafik Eye. The common and ground will already be attached to bundles found inside the box.

Then make a tail coming off one zone of the Grafik Eye for you to combine with the three black wires from the lights and then connect the common (white) and ground from the tail to the common and ground bundles respectively. This may go without saying, but the ground lead going to each switch would also be removed.

Make sense?

EDIT - The Grafik Eye can handle a max load of 800w per zone, FYI. So standard 60 watt incandescents would be your max bulb wattage per fixture by combining all 12


----------



## AXLCMT

TMcG said:


> Are there any 3-way switches to these lights? Have you investigated where your hot is coming into the box? These are questions that must be answered to understand how your switches are currently wired.
> 
> But let's just say that your hot comes into a single three gang box with the three switches and is split into three leads, one for each switch. So all the grounds and commons are already tied together and there is a single hot attached to each of the three switches. To replace these switches with a Grafik Eye all you would do is directly connect the single hot from the panel (black wire) to the Grafik Eye. The common and ground will already be attached to bundles found inside the box.
> 
> Then make a tail coming off one zone of the Grafik Eye for you to combine with the three black wires from the lights and then connect the common (white) and ground from the tail to the common and ground bundles respectively. This may go without saying, but the ground lead going to each switch would also be removed.
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> EDIT - The Grafik Eye can handle a max load of 800w per zone, FYI. So standard 60 watt incandescents would be your max bulb wattage per fixture by combining all 12


You sound like Professional Master Technical Writer in this field TMcG  Because of your great descriptions, I understand. Thank you.

Now I just have to take off the Switch Covers and take some photos of of what kind of Switches the 3 Switches are (3 way, 2 way, 4 way etc etc) and show you have they are connected, and also upload a video onto youtube and add the link to the video here to show you which switches turn on which lights ( by the way there are two entrances into my Home Theater and on the "other entrance" there are another two switches that can control some of the lights which I will show videos of and take photos of to let you see my setup) I have a Lutron Grafik Eye QS with wireless unit attached to it by design.


----------



## thestoneman

Does anyone know if the GRX 3106 comes standard with the ability for control via remote? Can I just buy the GRX-IT remote and I'm good to go or do I need additional Lutron hardware for the remote to work?


----------



## oman321

The GRX 3106 has an IR receiver on the front of it. You can use any programmable universal remote to control. Harmony and others have the codes in their database. The only time you need additional hardware is if the unit will not be in view or in line of sight. You can add different accessories for either manual or IR control if needed.


----------



## AXLCMT

*Rope Light/Low Voltage Dimmer Lighting - Hiding The "regular" electrical outlet*

I plan on adding some low voltage lights/rope lights to my HT when I install the Grafik Eye and I am aware that it is against code
and is dangerous to connect "non dimmable" electrical devices (vacuum cleaner, xbox, PS4 etc) to an regular receptacle outlet which is powered as a Zone on a Grafik Eye,because it will destroy or burn out the non-dimmable device (vacuum cleaner, xbox, PS4 etc.). I am aware that Lutron sells their own 'dimmable receptacle' that has a unique 'prong' connector where you have to solder the end of your 'two prong' wire end of your Rope Light with a special 'receptacle key/special shaped prongs', but my idea is to save the money of having to purchase a Lutron Dimmable Outlet. 

In order to save money by not having to buy the Lutron 'dimming receptacle' and having to solder onto your Rope Light this special 'key/special shaped prong', what about building a wooden 'containment' area that would 'hide' the outlet and 'cover' the outlet, allowing only the electrical wire (from the Rope Light) to go through a tiny hole into this 'containment box'?

With this idea of a 'Containment Box' therefore, in order to 'pull out' or 'put in' your two prong electrical wire from your Rope Light (or any other voltage powered device such as a vacuum cleaner), you would need to take apart your 'Containment Box' or set it up so that you have to unscrew four screws from each corner of the box 'face'.

In hind sight, I am sure that it is against the current National Electrical Code (NEC)  to 'cover' a Electrical Outlet, but what if this 'containment box' leaves about 3-4" of space between the electrical outlet 'face' and the 'Containment Box'? 

(the above scenario would be to build this "containment box" inside a kitchen cabinet in a bar at the back of the theater) 

In a similar vein of this idea of building a 'Containment Box', I was thinking of putting my electrical outlet for one of my Rope Lights 'inside the stage' of my HT (since one of my Rope Lights will be going under the 'lip' of the stage), and making this Rope Light 'Electrical Outlet' in-accessable to people wanting to pull out the Rope Light cord and using it for a Vacuum Cleaner by accident etc and requiring one to unscrew a 'hinged door' or something in the stage, in case the Rope Light dies and it needs to be replaced at some time in the future. The Rope Light power cord would some how have to 'go through a tiny hole' into the Stage in the HT in order to go inside the stage and plug into my 'under the stage/inside the stage outlet', but a 'hinged door' with a 'lock' on it/need to be opened by unscrewing some screws that hold a door up, will stop anyone from accidentally plugging in a vacuum cleaner into the Lutron Grafik Eye controlled Outlet inside the Stage.

Anyone ever see this done, and if not, why not do this? 

I've seen numerous guys on this forum post using a regular electrical outlet (powered by a Grafik Eye) to power their Rope Lights, but claim that this Electrical Outlet would never be used to power a vacuum cleaner by accident 'becauses its inaccessible up behind some Tray Ceiling/Crown Molding' , so how much different is my idea?  (my theater will unfortunately not have any tray ceiling/crown molding to hide my Grafik Eye powered electrical outlet, otherwise I would follow their lead!!!!!!)


----------



## Jedi

AXLCMT, google "lutron car-15-hdtr-xx" and "lutron RP-FDU-10-xx" and you will find these parts available for less than perhaps the value of your time & materials for building work-arounds. Realize, Lutron sells probably a million-fold less of these items than they do standard recepts, hence, the higher than comparable cost. If memory serves, the plug wires to the lamp cord using screw terminals -- no soldering req'd. Also, both plug and recep are available in several colors.


----------



## TMcG

AXLCMT said:


> In order to save money by not having to buy the Lutron 'dimming receptacle' and having to solder onto your Rope Light this special 'key/special shaped prong', what about building a wooden 'containment' area that would 'hide' the outlet and 'cover' the outlet, allowing only the electrical wire (from the Rope Light) to go through a tiny hole into this 'containment box'?
> 
> I've seen numerous guys on this forum post using a regular electrical outlet (powered by a Grafik Eye) to power their Rope Lights, but claim that this Electrical Outlet would never be used to power a vacuum cleaner by accident 'becauses its inaccessible up behind some Tray Ceiling/Crown Molding'


Go with code and buy the Lutron dimmable receptacle, plain and simple. Don't eff around with anything else and pony up the few extra bucks for the specialty receptacle. The plug is also a very simple two minute install to transfer the wires to the new dimmable receptacle plug with no soldering, FYI.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369269_ENG.pdf

As for using a standard receptacle, you have to admit there is a lot of logic to the argument that a receptacle tucked away in a lighting cove 8 feet above the floor (and probably hidden) is not going to be the go-to outlet for plugging something in that isn't dimmable. But it's still against code.


----------



## AXLCMT

I was just thinking about my future Grafik Eye QS installation and preparing in my mind all that will be involved with its installation/retrofit to replace my current 'three switches' that power the lights in my room (I say 'possibly' because I have yet to open up my three switches, which by the way have a 'dimmer slider' thingy as part of each switch which allows you to dim the current lights but the dimmer thingy slider does not work for some reason).

*Question is this:* What if my current three light switches are 'powered' (ie black wire to them) and they are daisy chained for power, but the originating power to them is coming from other switches or electrical outlets that are between the Circuit Breaker Panel and the switches?

*In other words, can the Grafik Eye QS be 'powered' by a wire that has other outlets or switches between the Circuit Breaker Panel and the Grafik Eye or 
does a direct DEDICATED romex wire (12/3) wire need to go directly from the Circuit Breaker Panel to the Grafik Eye without any electrical outlets or switches 'daisy chained' between the the Circuit Breaker Panel and the Grafik Eye?*


----------



## jautor

AXLCMT said:


> *Question is this:* What if my current three light switches are 'powered' (ie black wire to them) and they are daisy chained for power, but the originating power to them is coming from other switches or electrical outlets that are between the Circuit Breaker Panel and the switches?


Yes, that's fine - the GrafikEye is no different than any other switch/dimmer (just a complex one!). Just be aware of the load you're placing on the circuit. Make sure you're not going to overload the circuit.


----------



## AXLCMT

jautor said:


> Yes, that's fine - the GrafikEye is no different than any other switch/dimmer (just a complex one!). Just be aware of the load you're placing on the circuit. Make sure you're not going to overload the circuit.


Thank you jautor!!!!!!!!  Liked!!!!!


----------



## AXLCMT

*My Grafik Eye (GE) Archive Of The 'Definitive Grafik Eye master thread'!!!*

Hey guys,

While researching this thread and preparing for my future Grafik Eye 'retrofit', after reading through every single post on this thread twice, on the third reading, I convinced myself that it would be worth it to copy and past every single post into unique 'categories' to make it easier to find information that I may need when I start my Grafik Eye QS installation and wiring since I have never even connected an electrical outlet or a light switch. I have all of the tools required to do the work (fish tape, various wire cutters, touchless power tester) and all that they suggest in this book that I have read 3 times (and will continue to read over and over again until I feel confident to do the work required). 

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-Complete-Wiring-Updated/dp/159186612X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416338944&sr=1-1&keywords=Black+%26+Decker+The+Complete+Guide+to+Wiring+6th

Below is the list directory of every MS Word file which is its own 'category' that will hopefully help me as a resource to help with the install when and if I need information. 



I wish I could share with you guys each MS Word doc but my account here at AVSForum would be deactivated because it would not 
be in AVSForum's interest considered these posts are from their forum, but even if they allowed it, the size of the total 494 MS Word documents, even when zipped would be far over the allowed file size upload limit (total is 38 mb) 

I think a lot of you guys will laugh at my attempt to define and explain things from my interpretation of the Lutron Grafik Eye world. 

All of these MS Word documents fall into some general categories covering:

Purchases (what to purchase, where, what to watch out for, factors to consider when purchasing) for everything from Lutron products to lights etc.
Troubleshooting
Installation
Which posts had photos in them
Which posts had layout drawings
Code requirements
etc etc.

Here is the list of the MS Word Documents.

Disclaimer: I apologize if I incorrectly 'labeled' certain categories and I inappropriately mispelled any thing or name or 
incorrectly 'defined' things with regards my way of explaining categories. 


Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 2CF0-FEF2

Directory of C:\GE

11/18/2014 02:00 PM .
11/18/2014 02:00 PM ..
11/04/2014 03:12 PM 32,184 Accidents - When Pulling Out The Grafik Eye - I Put My Finger On The Side Of The GE To Pull It Out - That Can Be An Exciting Experience....docx
10/28/2014 08:47 AM 26,670 Application Notes - 109 - Dimming Portable Lamps Via Receptacles.docx
11/04/2014 02:50 PM 31,766 Astronomical Clock - Programming - Examples - Turn It On At Dusk And Off Late In The Evening.docx
11/04/2014 02:48 PM 30,474 AVSForum Members - Buying From Them - GRX-CBL-346S - Non Plenum Low Voltage Cable.docx
11/07/2014 11:02 AM 31,559 AVSForum Members - Experts Open To PMs To Help You Install The Grafik Eye.docx
11/18/2014 01:34 PM 27,153 AVSForum.com - Buying From Them - GRX-3006.docx
10/31/2014 02:53 PM 32,307 AVSForum.com - Buying From Them - Liberty Wire.docx
11/18/2014 01:58 PM 71,983 AXLCMT - RetroFit.docx
11/13/2014 03:11 PM 34,912 Can Lights - LED - Dimmability Factor.docx
11/14/2014 10:56 AM 38,833 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Factor - Jedi's BR30 LED Review With Use With GE.docx
11/18/2014 11:58 AM 21,796 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Factor - Wattage - 12.5 Watts.docx
11/18/2014 11:22 AM 51,424 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Troubleshooting - Did Not Work With Grafik Eye.docx
11/18/2014 11:26 AM 33,281 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Troubleshooting - Intermitten Flicker At 0 Power On Grafik Eye.docx
11/14/2014 11:15 AM 51,392 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Troubleshooting - They Are Flickering From 50 Pct To 0 Pct When Dimming.docx
11/18/2014 02:00 PM 38,981 Can Lights - LED - Purchase - Troubleshooting - Two Lights Flicker On One Zone - Unless I Have All Lights Off.docx
11/07/2014 04:39 PM 36,261 Circuit Breaker - Make A Note On The Panel - Max 15A - For The Line To The Grafik Eye.docx
10/31/2014 12:45 PM 38,498 Code - 18 Gauge Twisted Pair For Grafik Eye To Wall Station - Needs 600v Electric Tape Inside The Main Box.docx
10/29/2014 01:41 PM 35,166 Code - Local - Number Of Fixtures Allowed Per Circuit.docx
10/29/2014 09:14 AM 32,032 Code - Local - Power Booster Required.docx
11/06/2014 03:31 PM 49,379 Code - Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - My Electrical Inspector Said That Stranded Wire From The Wire Nuts To The Grafik Eye Is Against Code.docx
11/10/2014 04:51 PM 35,230 Code - NEC - Connecting Dimmers aka Rope Lights To Regular Receptacles - Its Against Code.docx
11/17/2014 02:31 PM 27,657 Code - NEC - Entrance To Room Need To Have A Switch To Turn On Lights Within 3 Feet.docx
11/04/2014 09:04 AM 28,319 Code - NEC - Gang Box For Grafik Eye - Has To Be Metal - Not Plastic Etc.docx
10/28/2014 08:55 AM 29,281 Code - NEC - Replacing A Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug.docx
10/27/2014 04:01 PM 26,252 Code - NEC - Rope Light To Grafik Eye.docx
11/03/2014 03:32 PM 31,240 Conduit - Purchase - PVC - Factor - Don't Use It - Produces Toxic Fumes When It Burns.docx
10/28/2014 02:07 PM 40,852 Conduit - Purchase - Smurf Tube - For PELV Cable.docx
11/03/2014 04:31 PM 40,059 Craigslist - GRX-3104.docx
11/14/2014 01:47 PM 37,615 Customer Service - Mentioned I Have A Question About An Online Product - They Put Me On Hold For 20 Minutes.docx
10/30/2014 01:33 PM 33,981 Daisy Chain - Definition - Factor - Its Two Ends Into Each Wall Station Except The Last.docx
10/28/2014 08:59 AM 28,596 Dimmable Receptacle - DFDU - Rope Light Connectivity - Replacing The Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug - Factor - Attach The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Plug To An Extension Cord And Attaching Extension Cord To Rople Light.docx
10/31/2014 10:17 AM 35,468 Dimmable Receptacle - DFDU - Rope Light Connectivity - Replacing The Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug - Factor - Prevents Guests etc From Plugging In A Vacuum Cleaner Into A Dimmed Outlet.docx
10/28/2014 08:55 AM 30,118 Dimmable Receptacle - DFDU - Rope Light Connectivity - Replacing The Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug - Factor - Warranty - Rope Light Warranty Voided.docx
10/28/2014 08:57 AM 28,588 Dimmable Receptacle - DFDU - Rope Light Connectivity - Replacing The Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/13/2014 04:57 PM 460,469 Dimmable Receptacle - DFDU - Rope Light Connectivity - Replacing The Rope Light Plug With The Lutron RP-RDU-10 Replacement Plug.docx
11/10/2014 02:09 PM 306,816 Dimmable Receptacle - Mating Plug - Lutron RP-FDU-10 Mating Plug For The Dimmable Receptacle - Its A Two Prong Plug That You Have To Change Your Rope Light End With - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/10/2014 02:09 PM 306,812 Dimmable Receptacle - Mating Plug - Lutron RP-FDU-10 Mating Plug For The Dimmable Receptacle - Its A Two Prong Plug That You Have To Change Your Rope Light End With.docx
11/03/2014 04:07 PM 41,383 eBay - GRX-3104.docx
11/18/2014 11:08 AM 29,361 eBay - Lutron Grafik Eye - Face Plates.docx
11/12/2014 04:01 PM 39,307 eBay - Lutron Grafik Eye - General All.docx
10/30/2014 01:35 PM 36,522 eBay - NTGRX-4S Wall Station.docx
11/04/2014 11:01 AM 33,981 EGRX-4SIR - Allows Scene Adjustment At Wallstation OR Wireless Remote.docx
11/04/2014 10:46 AM 42,177 ELVI-1000 - Provides Grafik Eye To Dimm Electronic Transformer Supplied Low Voltage Lighting - Transformer For It - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 10:43 AM 33,179 ELVI-1000 - Provides Grafik Eye To Dimm Electronic Transformer Supplied Low Voltage Lighting.docx
11/13/2014 03:45 PM 29,648 Engraving - Plates - List Of Button Names - Factor - Icon Options.docx
11/13/2014 03:14 PM 37,883 Engraving - Plates - List Of Button Names.docx
11/13/2014 03:15 PM 36,409 Engraving - Plates - Wall Station - List Of Button Names.docx
10/28/2014 01:05 PM 32,297 Face Plates - Purchase - Colors Available - Factor - Opaque.docx
10/28/2014 01:05 PM 32,303 Face Plates - Purchase - Colors Available - Factor - Translucent.docx
10/28/2014 01:05 PM 32,291 Face Plates - Purchase - Colors Available.docx
11/06/2014 10:35 AM 37,707 Face Plates - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/18/2014 11:10 AM 44,063 Face Plates - Purchase - Where To Buy Them.docx
11/18/2014 02:00 PM 0 FILENAME.TXT
11/13/2014 02:25 PM 34,265 Firmware - Update - QS - Lutron Tech Support Emailed Me The Firmware Update Utility.docx
10/27/2014 03:59 PM 26,139 First Post - Record Of First Post To Show Which Posts Were Not Reviewed For Copying And Pasting.docx
11/14/2014 09:30 AM 35,766 Gang Box - Installation - Factor - Attaching To - Affixing It To Studs.docx
11/14/2014 09:30 AM 40,482 Gang Box - Installation - Factor - Considering It Has To Be Extended Out To Be Flush With DRYWALL.docx
10/29/2014 02:33 PM 41,329 Gang Box - Installation - Factor - Considering It Has To Be Extended Out To Be Flush With Fabric Panels.docx
10/29/2014 02:45 PM 37,618 Gang Box - Installation - Forgot To Extend The Gang Box To Be Flush With Fabric Panel.docx
11/04/2014 02:14 PM 39,841 Gang Box - Installation - Wiring Into Them - Clamps Are Required.docx
11/07/2014 05:05 PM 44,933 Gang Box - Installation - Wiring Into Them - Ground.docx
11/04/2014 02:08 PM 40,898 Gang Box - Installation - Wiring Into Them - Punching The Holes Out For Wiring.docx
10/28/2014 01:03 PM 31,801 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Factor - Dimension - Depth.docx
10/28/2014 11:33 AM 34,399 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Factor - Second Box Does Not Have To Be A Four Gange Box.docx
11/11/2014 09:07 AM 32,455 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Factor - There Is No Need For Two Boxes If You Use a 3.5 Inch Deep Box - Raco Box 698.docx
11/07/2014 11:24 AM 589,192 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Installation - Wiring.docx
11/11/2014 09:42 AM 82,606 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Installation.docx
11/04/2014 04:42 PM 35,170 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Purchase - Factor - Ask Them For The Cover Plate When Buying Two Gang Boxes For This.docx
11/04/2014 04:11 PM 35,068 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Purchase - Where To Buy Them From.docx
11/04/2014 04:11 PM 35,072 Gang Box - Purchase - Alternative - Two Box Method - Purchase.docx
11/14/2014 04:03 PM 34,040 Gang Box - Purchase - Factor - Don't Let Them Steer You Towards Assembling A Gangable Box - The Gang Tabs Will Interfere With The GE.docx
10/29/2014 02:03 PM 31,817 Gang Box - Purchase - Factor - Gangable Boxes.docx
10/29/2014 01:51 PM 31,923 Gang Box - Purchase - Factor - Lutron Recommended Width Dimension Box.docx
11/14/2014 03:50 PM 55,436 Gang Box - Purchase - Plastic - Carlon - 4 Gang - 68 Cu In - Factor - Better Then Metal.docx
11/04/2014 11:38 AM 33,904 Gang Box - Purchase - Raco 698 - Cost.docx
10/31/2014 12:45 PM 34,977 Gang Box - Purchase - Raco 698 - Installation.docx
11/13/2014 05:03 PM 39,132 Gang Box - Purchase - Raco 698 - Where To Buy It.docx
10/29/2014 02:10 PM 31,769 Gang Box - Purchase - Raco 698.docx
10/29/2014 01:56 PM 32,809 Gang Box - Purchase - Where To Buy Them - Any Local Electrical Supply House.docx
10/30/2014 02:23 PM 32,803 GRX-12DC - External DC Power Supply Whenever More Than Three Wallstations Or Control Interfaces Must Be Powered From A Single Control Unit - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 10:03 AM 36,926 GRX-AV - Contact Interface Accessory Control - Allows Customer Supplied Auxiliary Equipment Such AS Time Clocks - Security - To Be Controlled By The Grafik Eye - Programming - Configuration.docx
10/30/2014 02:25 PM 33,204 GRX-AV - Contact Interface Accessory Control - Allows Customer Supplied Auxiliary Equipment Such AS Time Clocks - Security - To Be Controlled By The Grafik Eye - Purchase.docx
11/18/2014 11:16 AM 38,749 GRX-CBL-346S - Non Plenum Low Voltage Cable - PELV - Connectivity - Installation - Between Wall Station And GRX-IRI.docx
11/10/2014 04:51 PM 41,046 GRX-CIR-WH - Ceiling Mounted Infrared IR Receiver - Wiring Between It And the Grafik Eye - Purchase.docx
10/29/2014 10:53 AM 25,361 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Combatability - Factor - Which Grafik Eye Models It Is Compatible With.docx
11/10/2014 04:51 PM 38,917 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Configuration - Dip Switches.docx
10/29/2014 10:32 AM 30,640 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Connectivity - To IR Blaster.docx
11/07/2014 02:47 PM 32,024 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Connectivity - To Lutron Grafik Eye QS - Not Compatible.docx
10/29/2014 10:47 AM 31,608 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Factor - Adheres To The Back Of The Module.docx
11/03/2014 03:15 PM 33,177 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Factor - In Between Two Grafik Eyes.docx
10/29/2014 10:47 AM 31,601 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Factor - Its Wall Mountable.docx
11/12/2014 11:15 AM 33,424 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Factor - Use PELV Wire To Connect The GRX-IRI To The Grafik Eye.docx
10/31/2014 08:33 AM 32,555 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Factor - Wiring - Gauge Factor - 18 - For Control Cable From IRI To Grafik Eye.docx
10/29/2014 08:58 AM 30,068 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation - Location.docx
11/10/2014 10:58 AM 34,814 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Installation.docx
11/03/2014 11:33 AM 31,814 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - IR Commands - List Of Commands.docx
11/03/2014 01:40 PM 31,014 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/07/2014 04:02 PM 33,300 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Purchase - Factor - For Cases Where The GE Is Out Of Line Of Sight.docx
10/29/2014 10:08 AM 30,634 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Purchase - Factor - Provides Additional Remote Capabilities - Including Remote Control Of Individual Zones.docx
11/12/2014 11:07 AM 51,529 GRX-IRI - Remote IR Sensor - Purchase.docx
10/29/2014 01:44 PM 31,212 GRX-IRI-WH - Ceiling Mounted Infrared Receiver - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony.docx
11/04/2014 01:34 PM 35,154 GRX-IRI-WH - Ceiling Mounted Infrared Receiver - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 01:18 PM 34,916 GRX-PRG - Allows You To Control The Grafik Eye With a RS232 Computer Interface - Connectivity - To GRX-3106.docx
11/04/2014 11:08 AM 36,047 GRX-PRG - Allows You To Control The Grafik Eye With a RS232 Computer Interface - Installation.docx
10/29/2014 02:14 PM 40,861 GRX-PRG - Allows You To Control The Grafik Eye With a RS232 Computer Interface - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 11:11 AM 33,811 GRX-PRG - Allows You To Control The Grafik Eye With a RS232 Computer Interface - Troubleshooting - Broken Upon Receipt.docx
11/07/2014 11:20 AM 36,463 GRX-RS232 - What Is It - It Allows Up To Eight Grafik Eye Control Units To Be Interfaced With A Computer Via RS232.docx
10/29/2014 02:18 PM 34,098 GRX-RS232 vs GRX-PRG.docx
10/29/2014 01:54 PM 33,222 Hankselectric - Buying From Them - Factor - Shipping - Shipping Prices Are High.docx
11/18/2014 11:56 AM 32,805 Hankselectric - Paul - Factor - He Hangs Out On The AVSForum.com.docx
10/31/2014 02:41 PM 32,072 Hankselectric - Paul.docx
11/06/2014 04:39 PM 33,830 Harmony - RF Extender - What Is It.docx
11/03/2014 11:32 AM 26,068 IR Commands - List Of Commands.docx
11/06/2014 02:21 PM 161,974 IR Emitter - To Control Grafik Eye - Location Installation - Back Of Seating.docx
11/14/2014 02:51 PM 61,404 IR Emitter - To Control Grafik Eye - Location Installation - To The Box - How To Install On The Box.docx
11/11/2014 03:42 PM 144,131 Layout Drawing - GRX 3000 To NTGRX-4S Wall Station To GRX-IRI IR Emitter.docx
10/27/2014 04:03 PM 22,282 Lighting - Wiring To The Grafik Eye - Do I Run Each Light To the Grafik Eye OR Bundle Lights Into Zone And Bring One Wire For Each Zone To The Graphic Eye.docx
11/06/2014 05:01 PM 39,827 Low Voltage B0x - Purchase - Factor - MLV Transformers Work Fine - ELV Transformers Require A Interface.docx
11/07/2014 11:06 AM 29,812 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - Can A Low Voltage Transformer Be Connected To A Grafik Eye.docx
10/31/2014 09:01 AM 25,894 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Gauge - 18.docx
11/04/2014 11:37 AM 33,370 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/07/2014 04:46 PM 39,016 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Purchase - Factor - Don't Use Speaker Cable - Its Unshielded Which Means Tons Of RF Interference.docx
10/31/2014 02:52 PM 33,953 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Purchase - Factor - Must Be Rated For 600V.docx
11/05/2014 04:41 PM 34,737 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Purchase - Where To Buy It.docx
11/04/2014 11:36 AM 36,935 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - To Wall Stations - Purchase.docx
10/28/2014 03:44 PM 30,399 Low Voltage Box - Wiring - Type Of Wiring - Purchase.docx
10/28/2014 02:03 PM 29,746 Low Voltage Box - Wiring.docx
11/05/2014 03:00 PM 44,375 LUT-LBX - Synthetic Minimum Load - Allows Dimmer To Control Low-Wattage Loads From 0 Watts To Dimmers Minimum Rating.docx
10/28/2014 03:28 PM 34,787 Lutron - Engraving Service - How It Works.docx
11/13/2014 11:22 AM 24,286 Lutron Forum Link.docx
10/31/2014 02:16 PM 31,596 Lutron Grafik Eye - 2000 Series - Purchase - Factor - No MUX Connection.docx
10/31/2014 01:48 PM 35,732 Lutron Grafik Eye - 2000 Series - Purchase - Factor - Lack A Low Voltage Interface.docx
10/28/2014 09:38 AM 30,228 Lutron Grafik Eye - 20th Anniversary Edition - Purchase.docx
10/28/2014 09:30 AM 30,223 Lutron Grafik Eye - 20th Anniversary Edition.docx
11/06/2014 03:31 PM 29,857 Lutron Grafik Eye - 3000 Series - Purchase.docx
10/29/2014 02:25 PM 30,563 Lutron Grafik Eye - 3100 Series - Purchase.docx
11/10/2014 02:36 PM 24,444 Lutron Grafik Eye - 4000 Series - Factor - It Does Not Do Any Dimming - Its Just A Controller For The Separate Dimmer Panel.docx
11/10/2014 02:36 PM 35,455 Lutron Grafik Eye - 4000 Series - Factor - It Needs To Be Connected To A Remote Dimming Panel GP Series.docx
10/28/2014 01:52 PM 34,454 Lutron Grafik Eye - Accessories - Installation - Factor - All Accessories Need To Be Daisy Chained Using A PELV Cable.docx
10/28/2014 02:54 PM  30,902 Lutron Grafik Eye - Accessories - Purchase - Where To Buy Them.docx
11/11/2014 04:49 PM 114,570 Lutron Grafik Eye - Amps - Total Amps Load For All 6 Zones - Examples.docx
11/12/2014 04:07 PM 30,974 Lutron Grafik Eye - Amps - Total Amps Load For All 6 Zones - Factor - Add Up Total Watts For All Zones - Make Sure Whatever Amp You Are Powering Your GE Can Handle That Many Watts.docx
11/11/2014 03:06 PM 78,419 Lutron Grafik Eye - Amps - Total Amps The Grafik Eye Can Handle - For All Six Zones.docx
11/11/2014 03:06 PM 37,941 Lutron Grafik Eye - Circuit Breaker Size - Measure In Amps - To The Grafik Eye.docx
11/12/2014 09:43 AM 40,414 Lutron Grafik Eye - Clicking Sound When You Turn It Off.docx
10/28/2014 01:40 PM 33,492 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Dimmable Electronic Low Voltage Transformer - Factor - No ELVI-1000 Required.docx
11/07/2014 11:24 AM 32,975 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Dimmable Electronic Low Voltage Transformer - Setting The Load Type To Incandescent Or Not.docx
11/14/2014 04:02 PM 41,999 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Hardwired IR POrt To IR Repeater - Global Cache GC-100.docx
11/07/2014 05:03 PM 34,268 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - QS Systems Are Not Compatible With The 3000-4000 Series Grafik Eye Systems - Time For Some QS Wall Stations.docx
11/05/2014 10:30 AM 35,268 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Bring Up Lights A Bit When I Hit Mute.docx
11/05/2014 10:55 AM 34,307 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - First Program Scenes On GE - Then Create Sequences When Programming The Remote.docx
11/03/2014 11:44 AM 32,741 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Labels For Each Zone On The Harmony.docx
11/05/2014 10:28 AM 35,250 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Play Command - Change Play Command To Be A Sequence Named Play.docx
11/05/2014 10:31 AM 38,987 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Power Toggle Upon Exiting DVD Activity - So The Projector Will Power Down.docx
11/05/2014 02:19 PM 41,978 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Troubleshooting - Programmed It But It Does Nothing.docx
11/05/2014 04:58 PM 47,876 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - Troubleshooting - Switching From One Activity To Another - DVD To Cable Etc - The Lights Will Come Up.docx
11/06/2014 04:44 PM 38,568 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming - When Using RF Extender - Tell Harmony To Send Its Signals As RF Instead Of IR So That The RF Extender Can Translate It.docx
11/06/2014 02:15 PM 57,158 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony - Programming.docx
11/06/2014 04:38 PM 41,897 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Harmony.docx
10/28/2014 09:25 AM 31,288 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - Phillips Pronto.docx
11/14/2014 01:18 PM 39,297 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - RF - GE Will Work With RF - You Need a IR Repeater WITH A Matching RF Receiver.docx
11/07/2014 01:48 PM 41,170 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - URC - The URC And Lutron Partnership.docx
11/10/2014 02:00 PM 58,740 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - URC - Troubleshooting - Able To Work Via IR To GRX-IRI But Not Via RF.docx
11/05/2014 04:38 PM 37,231 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - Remote Control - URC.docx
11/07/2014 05:05 PM 41,076 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - To Circuit Breaker - On Its Own Breaker vs Sharing The Breaker With Something Else.docx
10/29/2014 02:11 PM 33,601 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - To Computer.docx
10/29/2014 02:13 PM 33,584 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - To Main Lobby Software.docx
11/07/2014 01:47 PM 41,032 Lutron Grafik Eye - Connectivity - To RadiaRA.docx
10/28/2014 09:38 AM 32,041 Lutron Grafik Eye - Curtain Control.docx
10/29/2014 08:33 AM 31,185 Lutron Grafik Eye - Dimmability - 3100 Series Is Dimmable In 1% Increments.docx
10/28/2014 11:10 AM 29,306 Lutron Grafik Eye - Electrical - Total Wattage Load For The Grafik Eye.docx
11/04/2014 11:16 AM 31,375 Lutron Grafik Eye - Engraving - Comes With Certificate Of Engraving.docx
11/06/2014 02:43 PM 162,416 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - 25 W Minimum Per Zone - Does Dim Control Still Work If You Are Close To The Minimum.docx
11/10/2014 01:17 PM 44,191 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Ceiling Fans - Grafik Eye Does Not Control Ceiling Fans.docx
11/03/2014 04:33 PM 37,367 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Hire A Contractor - When Removing Your Grafik Eye To Taking It To Another Home - For Adding Regular Switches Where The Grafik Eye Was.docx
11/06/2014 03:31 PM 36,912 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Instruction Book That Comes With It.docx
11/06/2014 04:58 PM 38,975 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Name Code Letter Meanings - GRX3106-T-WH -- T-WH Both Refers To The Cover Plate Covers.docx
11/06/2014 11:09 AM 37,668 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Reset To Factory Default Command.docx
11/03/2014 04:32 PM 37,777 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Taking The Grafik Eye With You To A New Home - How to Wire Manual Switches In Place Of The Grafik Eye.docx
11/18/2014 11:00 AM 44,961 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Troubleshooting - Buzzing - Hum On Bulbs When Very Low.docx
11/03/2014 03:36 PM 36,231 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Troubleshooting - First Halogen Sconce In The Chain Buzzing When Dimmed.docx
11/04/2014 10:17 AM 47,829 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Troubleshooting - Installation - Be Careful - Grafik Eyes Burn Out Easily.docx
11/06/2014 03:31 PM 39,046 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Troubleshooting - Load 1 And 2 Power Up 100% Regardless Of Which Zone I Hit Up.docx
11/03/2014 03:52 PM 41,287 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - Troubleshooting - Rope Light Still Being Dimly Lit Even When Zone Is Not On.docx
11/04/2014 01:18 PM 36,342 Lutron Grafik Eye - General All - You Can Link Two Grafik Eyes Together.docx
11/03/2014 03:19 PM 35,854 Lutron Grafik Eye - Generall All - All White Neutrals Connect - All Black Hot Wires Connect Together.docx
11/13/2014 02:09 PM 52,822 Lutron Grafik Eye - Generall All - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 04:06 PM 586,402 Lutron Grafik Eye - Generall All - Troubleshooting - Bulbs - Have All Kinds Of Different Bulbs - They Dim Differently - Must Buy Same Bulbs.docx
11/03/2014 03:18 PM 35,848 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-2403 - Installation - How The Wires Are All Installed.docx
11/03/2014 03:33 PM 35,817 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-2403 - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 02:00 PM 35,851 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-2403 - Troubleshooting - Buzzing - Hum On Bulbs When Very Low.docx
11/03/2014 03:35 PM 35,824 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-2403 - Troubleshooting - Buzzing From Light When Dimmed - First Halogen On Sconce Chain When Dimmed.docx
11/04/2014 02:10 PM 39,731 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-2404 - Purchase.docx
10/28/2014 09:52 AM 35,702 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Cover - Removing The Cover.docx
11/03/2014 04:30 PM 40,056 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/28/2014 09:08 AM 28,527 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Purchase - Factor - Remote Control.docx
10/29/2014 02:28 PM 39,346 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Purchase - Where To Buy It - eBay.docx
11/07/2014 05:01 PM 49,200 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Purchase -.docx
11/04/2014 10:12 AM 45,109 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Troubleshooting - Nothing Works After Remounting It.docx
10/28/2014 09:07 AM 28,215 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3104 - Zones - Number Of Zones.docx
10/31/2014 12:45 PM 33,752 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Compatability - Lutron IR Remote From Home Depot.docx
11/12/2014 04:00 PM 187,957 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Connectivity - PELV Connection.docx
11/05/2014 11:52 AM 38,613 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Experiences.docx
11/06/2014 03:50 PM 29,210 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Installation - Factor - Voltage Needed - 120V Is Required.docx
11/03/2014 01:39 PM 33,145 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/31/2014 08:53 AM 30,123 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Purchase - Factor - Cannot Be Controlled By A Computer.docx
11/03/2014 01:39 PM 35,178 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 11:23 AM 37,484 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3106 - Troubleshooting - Certain LED Light Is Blinking While Other Lights Are On.docx
10/31/2014 10:32 AM 32,741 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3504 - Purchase.docx
11/03/2014 05:03 PM 36,074 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3506 - Installation - Factor - Two 3506s Linked Together.docx
11/03/2014 01:44 PM 36,368 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3506 - Installation.docx
10/31/2014 08:53 AM 31,524 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3506 - Purchase - Factor - Can Be Programmed By A Computer.docx
11/07/2014 03:59 PM 46,236 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-3506 - Purchase.docx
11/03/2014 04:42 PM 28,307 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-TVI - Allows Switching For One Quarter HP Motor At 120V - ie One Ceiling Fan - Purchase.docx
11/17/2014 03:34 PM 29,828 Lutron Grafik Eye - GRX-TVI - Connectivity - For LED Light Strips.docx
10/29/2014 08:31 AM 32,753 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Experiences - It Was Easy.docx
10/31/2014 10:00 AM 31,992 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - How All Of The Lights Are Connected.docx
11/03/2014 01:44 PM 33,221 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Location - Column - Cylinder Column.docx
10/31/2014 02:05 PM 31,447 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Location - Factor - If Sunlight His The Grafik Eye - It Will Jam Its IR Power.docx
11/04/2014 11:12 AM 39,474 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Location.docx
11/05/2014 04:07 PM 878,225 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Stranded Wire From The Wire Nuts To The Grafik Eye.docx
11/03/2014 03:57 PM 30,094 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Two Box Method.docx
11/04/2014 01:20 PM 37,339 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - When To Install It - Factor - Considering If You Need To Paint.docx
11/04/2014 03:10 PM 43,443 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation - Wrap Electrical Tape Around the GE - Across Top - Down Side - Across Bottom And Up Other Side.docx
11/11/2014 11:36 AM 868,214 Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation.docx
11/14/2014 02:24 PM 42,924 Lutron Grafik Eye - IR Repeater - IR Flasher Bug - Attaching It To The Front Of The Grafik Eye.docx
10/29/2014 09:03 AM 30,426 Lutron Grafik Eye - Layout Drawing.docx
10/29/2014 09:10 AM 217,461 Lutron Grafik Eye - Layout Drawing.pdf
11/18/2014 11:04 AM 32,105 Lutron Grafik Eye - Lights - Bulbs - Purchase - Factor - Phillips Bulb - High Quality - You Will Be Amazed With The Difference.docx
10/31/2014 03:23 PM 29,402 Lutron Grafik Eye - Lights - Bulbs - Purchase - Factor LED - Make Sure the LED Manufacturer Signs Off On the Lamp Being Dimmed BEFORE You Connect It To A Dimmer.docx
11/03/2014 01:42 PM 38,644 Lutron Grafik Eye - Lights - Bulbs - Purchase - Factor LED - Troubleshooting - They All Were Dimmable As Per The Manufacturer But They All Died.docx
10/31/2014 04:00 PM 41,299 Lutron Grafik Eye - Lights - Bulbs - Purchase - Factor LED.docx
11/14/2014 04:33 PM 44,938 Lutron Grafik Eye - Minimum Wattage Allowed Per Zone - 25W - For Rope Lights - Add A Incandescent Light To Add Resistance To Load.docx
11/18/2014 12:01 PM 47,688 Lutron Grafik Eye - Minimum Wattage Allowed Per Zone - 25W - Not Going Below But Getting Close To 25 W - Lights Flicker - Zone Lights May Glow When Fully Off.docx
11/18/2014 02:00 PM 85,887 Lutron Grafik Eye - Minimum Wattage Allowed Per Zone - 25W.docx
10/28/2014 10:41 AM 29,359 Lutron Grafik Eye - Power Booster - Calculating If You Need A Power Booster.docx
10/28/2014 03:44 PM 30,824 Lutron Grafik Eye - Power Booster - One Power Booster To Two Or More Zones.docx
11/14/2014 01:59 PM 43,334 Lutron Grafik Eye - Power Booster - Purchase.docx
11/18/2014 11:56 AM 31,290 Lutron Grafik Eye - Power Booster - What Is It.docx
11/12/2014 09:42 AM 34,710 Lutron Grafik Eye - Power Booster - When Is A Power Booster Required.docx
11/06/2014 01:27 PM 40,423 Lutron Grafik Eye - Pre QS Models - No IR Input - Attach IR Emitter Coming Out Of The Wall Just Beneath It And Stuck To The Face Over The IR Receiver.docx
11/18/2014 01:24 PM 56,478 Lutron Grafik Eye - Programming - Lighting Levels - You Can Control Each Light Individually - IR Codes For Each Listed Here.docx
11/06/2014 11:08 AM 43,894 Lutron Grafik Eye - Programming - Load Types - Telling The GE Zone 1 Is Fluorsescent Etc.docx
11/04/2014 04:55 PM 45,669 Lutron Grafik Eye - Programming - Pause Sequence - Automatically Brings Lights Up When You Press Pause.docx
11/11/2014 05:02 PM 35,027 Lutron Grafik Eye - Programming - Reset Which Grafik Eyes Are Listening To All Wall Stations.docx
11/17/2014 12:21 PM 34,284 Lutron Grafik Eye - Programming - Setup Mode - Hold Scene 1 And Off At The Same Time.docx
10/29/2014 09:58 AM 28,071 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Experiences.docx
11/14/2014 01:48 PM 57,061 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Factor - Dual Power Feed Type.docx
10/29/2014 12:49 PM 29,281 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Factor - Excellent Technical Support.docx
10/29/2014 08:28 AM 31,977 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy It - Dimmers.net.docx
11/13/2014 02:58 PM 57,042 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy It - eBay.docx
10/28/2014 03:00 PM 29,527 Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy It - Hanks Electric.docx
10/31/2014 01:52 PM 40,287 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Puts Out IR But Not RF.docx
10/31/2014 02:28 PM 27,210 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Experiences - Love It.docx
11/04/2014 03:33 PM 583,463 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Installation - Duration Of Install.docx
11/17/2014 01:25 PM 36,805 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Receiver - Experiences - Bounces The Signal Off The Screen To The Grafik Eye In The Back Of The Room.docx
11/14/2014 03:34 PM 42,966 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Install Through Bottom Middle Right - Limits Exposure Between Low And High Voltage.docx
11/12/2014 11:06 AM 36,264 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Keep Same Polarity At Both Ends.docx
11/13/2014 10:19 AM 36,977 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Not QS - Use Cat5 To Extend The LED - Cut And Trim Inside Cover Of GE - Fit LED In Front Of GE Receiving LED.docx
11/12/2014 11:02 AM 36,984 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Which Wires On The Cat5 To Use.docx
11/14/2014 02:14 PM 36,625 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Wrap With 3M Shrink Wrap.docx
11/04/2014 09:08 AM 34,326 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Wrap With Electrical Tape Inside The Gang Box.docx
11/14/2014 02:22 PM 41,239 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Wrap With Heat Shrinking Tube In The Gang Box.docx
11/12/2014 11:46 AM 43,141 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Wrap With PVC Tape Inside The Gang Box.docx
11/14/2014 02:13 PM 36,000 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation - Factor - Wrap With ROMEX Sheathing.docx
11/14/2014 04:04 PM 105,910 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Cat5 - Installation.docx
11/04/2014 09:44 AM 35,992 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation - 3.5mm Audio Cable - Jack To Harmony RF Extender - Two Wires To GE Directly.docx
11/06/2014 01:59 PM 36,012 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation - Confuction Over The IR DATA And IR COM Ports.docx
11/14/2014 01:21 PM 37,674 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation - Factor - Flasher Must Be Removed - Into The Back Of The GE.docx
11/05/2014 02:19 PM 38,149 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation - Factor - IR Input Port Polarity DOES Matter.docx
11/04/2014 03:50 PM 35,615 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation - Factor - Low Voltage PELV - Cat5 Etc - Sheathing Protection Is Not Required On The Other End Of The Wire Where It Connects To The Extender.docx
11/14/2014 04:03 PM 128,059 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Installation.docx
11/07/2014 04:03 PM 37,809 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - IR Wire - Wire To Connect To The IR Repeater - Purchase.docx
10/31/2014 09:56 AM 38,366 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Online Visualizer - To See What Color Combinations Look Like.docx
11/04/2014 02:53 PM 35,725 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Programming - All Programming Is Done Through The Front Panel.docx
11/04/2014 09:23 AM 33,345 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Programming - Dimming.docx
10/31/2014 09:34 AM 35,786 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/31/2014 01:16 PM 35,509 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Astronomical Clock - Can Be Added - Allowing Integrators To Set Schedules For Activating Scenes.docx
11/14/2014 01:20 PM 35,198 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - IR - You Can Hardware An IR Signal Into Back Of GE - Must Remove Flasher Though.docx
11/14/2014 01:45 PM 36,430 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - IR AND RF Factors - QS Is 434Mhz RF OR Hardwired IR.docx
10/31/2014 01:00 PM 33,850 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - LCD Panel Reads Status Of Lights And Shades.docx
10/31/2014 01:01 PM 34,600 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - LCD Panel Reads The Amount Of Energy That Is Being Saved In Real Time By Dimming The Lights.docx
10/31/2014 01:11 PM 34,605 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - New Set Of Master Override Buttons That Can Be Used To Temporarily Raise And Lower Light Levels Of A Complete Scene.docx
11/03/2014 04:05 PM 36,363 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Occupancy Sensor Input - Contact Closure Input Or Other Triggner Device.docx
11/14/2014 04:33 PM 36,130 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - USB Port - Only For Firmware Upgrades Only.docx
11/14/2014 04:33 PM 36,582 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - USB Port - Only For Initial Programming.docx
11/07/2014 11:24 AM 39,689 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - USB Port To Plug Directly Into A PC.docx
10/31/2014 12:51 PM 33,513 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - 20 Percent Less Deep - Making It Easier To Install.docx
10/31/2014 02:40 PM 33,174 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Controls Shades.docx
11/06/2014 11:57 AM 39,018 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Direct Plug In From IR Blaster - Instead Of Getting A Separate IR Unit.docx
11/06/2014 10:38 AM 44,151 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Features.docx
10/31/2014 09:53 AM 37,891 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - GS Is Now QS.docx
11/10/2014 03:36 PM 42,218 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Lutron Discontinuted The Wire Only Unit - Now They Only Sell The Dual RF Wire Units.docx
10/31/2014 09:54 AM 38,417 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Factor - Over 1000 Different Color Combinations For Plate - Accent Stripe - Button Colors.docx
11/13/2014 02:10 PM 36,276 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - List Of Features.docx
10/31/2014 02:40 PM 23,171 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase - Where To Buy It - Hanks Electronics.docx
11/06/2014 01:24 PM 41,229 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Purchase.docx
10/31/2014 02:29 PM 27,652 Lutron Grafik Eye - QS - Troubleshooting - Hardwire IR Port To RF Extender.docx
11/03/2014 04:40 PM 27,449 Lutron Grafik Eye - RA-GRX-6 - Purchase.docx
11/17/2014 12:29 PM 28,918 Lutron Grafik Eye - Replacement Cover - Purchase - Factor - Because You Want A Different Color.docx
11/17/2014 12:28 PM 35,773 Lutron Grafik Eye - Replacement Cover - Purchase.docx
11/14/2014 10:02 AM 39,059 Lutron Grafik Eye - Retrofitting A Current Light Switches.docx
11/07/2014 04:09 PM 171,476 Lutron Grafik Eye - Scenes - List Of Programmed Scenes.docx
11/17/2014 12:27 PM 2,150,922 Lutron Grafik Eye - Testing It Before Installation - On Table With Hot - Neutral - Ground Connected - Running The Setup Mode Which Is Screne 1 And Off.docx
11/12/2014 04:27 PM 69,658 Lutron Grafik Eye - Time Clock - Programming - Factor - Needs Complete Reprogramming Reset To Change The Timing If You Go On Vacation Etc.docx
10/31/2014 01:41 PM 39,819 Lutron Grafik Eye - Troubleshooting - Flickering - If I Turn Off One Of The Zones - The Bulbs In Ones Zone Flicker Constantly.docx
11/11/2014 11:10 AM 34,448 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - Connectivity - Connecting Them Together.docx
11/11/2014 11:14 AM 32,664 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - Multiple - Programming Them - Each Wall Station Can Mimic Separate Scenes - ie 1st Wallstation ONLY Does Scenes 1-4 - 2nd Does Scenes 5-8 etc.docx
11/06/2014 03:37 PM 47,649 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-1S - Installation - Factor - Does It Have A Ground.docx
10/29/2014 08:54 AM 31,144 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-4M - Purchase.docx
10/30/2014 01:36 PM 36,536 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-4S - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/04/2014 01:38 PM 41,975 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-4S - Purchase.docx
11/12/2014 10:42 AM 37,386 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-4S - Troubleshooting - Will Not When When Connected To Grafik Eye.docx
11/17/2014 04:51 PM 30,754 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS - Installation - Factor - Wiring - It Uses Regular Electric Cable - Does Not Use Low Voltage PELV Cable etc.docx
11/13/2014 10:07 AM 143,339 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS - Installation.docx
10/28/2014 09:25 AM 31,298 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/17/2014 04:49 PM 30,731 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS - Purchase - Factor - Color - You Can Get Different Colors.docx
11/17/2014 03:51 PM 34,519 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS - Purchase.docx
10/28/2014 09:23 AM 31,279 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS-IR - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/28/2014 09:23 AM 30,927 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wall Station - NTGRX-RS-IR - Purchase.docx
11/03/2014 03:50 PM 31,762 Lutron Grafik Eye - Warning - They Will Fry If You Miss Wire Them - Hire A Contractor.docx
11/03/2014 03:49 PM 31,249 Lutron Grafik Eye - Warning - They Will Fry If You Miss Wire Them.docx
11/07/2014 10:50 AM 31,940 Lutron Grafik Eye - What Is It - Its Just A Switch!!!!.docx
11/13/2014 02:37 PM 147,878 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - General - Overall Explanation.docx
11/17/2014 10:23 AM 33,921 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Grounds.docx
11/12/2014 02:53 PM 58,960 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Troubleshooting - How To Pig Tail All Of Those Wire Together Since There Are So Many.docx
11/12/2014 04:07 PM 49,812 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Crimp Ring - Tying All Ground Together.docx
11/14/2014 03:10 PM 584,959 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Push In Wire Connectors - Installation - Factor - Daisy Chaining.docx
11/17/2014 09:56 AM 46,210 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Push In Wire Connectors - Purchase - Factor - AWG Size Acceptance.docx
11/14/2014 04:57 PM 40,337 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Push In Wire Connectors - Purchase - Negative Factor - Hard To Get Wire Out Of Them - You Have To Rotate The Connector While Pulling It Out.docx
11/14/2014 04:58 PM 41,295 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Push In Wire Connectors - Purchase - Negative Factor - Stranded Wire - Hard To Remove Stranded Wire From Them.docx
11/12/2014 03:12 PM 58,041 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Using Push In Wire Connectors - Purchase.docx
11/05/2014 04:11 PM 51,278 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Connecting The Wires To The Grafik Eye.docx
11/11/2014 10:27 AM 37,187 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Electrical Wires - Size - AWG - Factor - All Wiring To Lights Has To Have The Same Size As Whatever Size You Power The Grafik Eye.docx
11/11/2014 03:06 PM 69,403 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Electrical Wires - Size - AWG - Factor - Purchase.docx
10/31/2014 01:30 PM 35,780 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Existing Lights Already Installed Behind Drywall.docx
10/28/2014 09:48 AM 32,605 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Lights - Connectivity - Factor - Each Zone Is Daisy Chained.docx
10/28/2014 09:45 AM 32,092 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wiring - Lights - Connectivity - Factor - One Wire Per Zone Goes To The Grafik Eye.docx
10/28/2014 09:18 AM 29,558 Lutron Grafik Eye - Wish List - Mini Plug IR Input Jack.docx
11/07/2014 03:10 PM 45,280 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - Amps Per Zone.docx
10/29/2014 01:20 PM 34,076 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - How They Work - You Can And Lower Each Zone At Will From The Front Panel Or A Data Interface.docx
10/31/2014 03:51 PM 36,731 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - How They Work - You Can Control Each Zone Independently.docx
10/29/2014 01:21 PM 34,619 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - How They Work - You Cannot Control Individual Fixtures Unless You Dedicate A Zone To Each One.docx
11/10/2014 11:09 AM 39,261 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - List Of Things People Put On Each Zone - Two Receptacles For Rope Lights And Four Step Lights.docx
11/18/2014 11:38 AM 78,504 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - List Of Zones.docx
11/10/2014 04:50 PM 79,658 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - Wattage - Each Zone Can Have 800W.docx
11/14/2014 11:18 AM 81,823 Lutron Grafik Eye - Zones - Wattage - The Total 2000 Watts Max Limit - With All Zones Added Up.docx
10/28/2014 09:21 AM 30,579 Lutron Grafik Eye -3103-T - Purchase.docx
11/18/2014 09:59 AM 35,794 Lutron Synthetic Load - Brings The Zone To The 25 Watt Minimum - Connectivity - For a Rope Light Below The 25 Watt Minimum.docx
10/28/2014 03:44 PM 41,577 Lutrong Grafik Eye vs Spacer System - Purchase.docx
11/18/2014 01:36 PM 33,062 Maestro Dimmer - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/18/2014 01:37 PM 33,580 Maestro Dimmer - Purchase - Programming - Factor - You Don't Have Independent Control Over Them - When You Hit The Preset Button Each One Would Go To a Preset Screne.docx
11/10/2014 11:43 AM 35,722 My Home Theater - Ideas - Rope Light - Outlet - Put The Outlet In A Protected Box Inside The Stage - So Nobody Can Plug Into It.docx
10/31/2014 02:18 PM 32,079 NT-GRX-1S - Wall Station - Purchase - Factor - Gives Scene 1 And OFF Only.docx
11/11/2014 10:20 AM 34,729 NTGRX-1S - Entrance Control - Purchase.docx
11/17/2014 12:19 PM 34,276 NTGRX-1S-WH - Entrance Control - For Situations Where You Already Maxed Out The Number Of Wall Stations - But Still Required More Control Points - Programming - When You Press It - It Brings The GE From Off To Scene 1.docx
11/04/2014 01:44 PM 33,163 NTGRX-1S-WH - Entrance Control - For Situations Where You Already Maxed Out The Number Of Wall Stations - But Still Required More Control Points - Wiring For It - Purchase - Factor - Use 12-3 Since It Is A Conventional Connection.docx
11/17/2014 12:18 PM 133,236 NTGRX-1S-WH - Entrance Control - For Situations Where You Already Maxed Out The Number Of Wall Stations - But Still Required More Control Points.docx
11/05/2014 03:35 PM 36,162 Number Of Lights On One Amp Circuit.docx
11/18/2014 01:52 PM 30,776 Occupancy Sensor - Purchase.docx
11/11/2014 10:25 AM 29,988 PELV Cable - Alternative - Beldon - Beldon Makes A Version Of It.docx
11/12/2014 11:45 AM 32,090 PELV Cable - Alternative - Cat5 - Purchase - Factor - Its Against Code - Cat5 Is Not Shielded - Acts As Antenna - Not For General Use.docx
10/31/2014 02:53 PM 32,839 PELV Cable - Alternative - Cat5 - Purchase - Lutron-GRN - Liberty.docx
11/18/2014 11:11 AM 34,092 PELV Cable - Alternative - Cat5 - Purchase.docx
11/14/2014 02:03 PM 38,028 PELV Cable - Alternative - CL3 Rating Wire - Don't Use It - Has Fire Protection - But Has No Voltage Protection.docx
11/18/2014 11:15 AM 25,290 PELV Cable - Alternative - Liberty AV Solutions Composite Cable - 22 AWG Wire.docx
11/18/2014 11:18 AM 27,138 PELV Cable - Alternative - Specifications Requirements - 2 X 22 Gauge Stranded Copper For Data With Tinned Drain Wire And Wrapped With Foil Shield And 2 X 18 Gauge Stranded Copper For Power And Ground.docx
11/11/2014 11:53 AM 32,458 PELV Cable - Alternative - Thermostat Cable - Don't Use It - Not Up To Code.docx
11/18/2014 11:15 AM 25,297 PELV Cable - Alternative - West Penn D25350-500.docx
11/06/2014 03:35 PM  31,916 PELV Cable - Connectivity - Between The Grafik Eye To The Wall Station.docx
11/05/2014 10:04 AM 34,100 PELV Cable - Connectivity - From The Grafik Eye QS.docx
11/05/2014 02:42 PM 37,133 PELV Cable - Drain Wire - Installation.docx
11/05/2014 11:50 AM 41,006 PELV Cable - Drain Wire - You Need To Use It - Should Be Tied To Ground AT ONE POINT ONLY ALONG THE CABLE RUN.docx
11/11/2014 03:54 PM 137,636 PELV Cable - Installation - Factor - No Conduit Necessary.docx
11/12/2014 11:16 AM 31,745 PELV Cable - Installation - Factor - Used To Connect The Grafik Eye To The GRX-IRI.docx
11/04/2014 02:16 PM 33,829 PELV Cable - Installation - Into The Gang Box - Use The Middle Hole For PELV.docx
10/28/2014 10:43 AM 29,462 PELV Cable - Purchase - Buying From AVSForum Members.docx
10/29/2014 02:09 PM 33,800 PELV Cable - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/28/2014 10:46 AM 28,825 PELV Cable - Purchase - Factor - AWG Level.docx
10/28/2014 10:53 AM 29,300 PELV Cable - Purchase - Factor - Twised Pair Number.docx
10/30/2014 01:28 PM 31,683 PELV Cable - Purchase - Installation.docx
11/04/2014 01:43 PM 33,091 PELV Cable - Purchase - What Is It - Factor - Its Two 18 Gauge And Two Thinner Wires - Plus A Drain.docx
11/11/2014 10:21 AM 35,099 PELV Cable - Purchase - What Is It - Factor - Has High Voltage Sheathing - Rated To Be In High Voltage Box.docx
11/04/2014 01:37 PM 36,469 PELV Cable - Purchase - What Is It.docx
10/29/2014 01:43 PM 30,746 PELV Cable - Purchase - Where To Buy It - AVSForum Members - Cost.docx
10/29/2014 01:42 PM 30,742 PELV Cable - Purchase - Where To Buy It - AVSForum Members.docx
11/14/2014 02:02 PM 30,167 PELV Cable - Purchase - Where To Buy It - Factor - By The Foot - Per Foot - Factor - Shipping Cost Will Kill You Though.docx
11/14/2014 02:01 PM 39,382 PELV Cable - Purchase - Where To Buy It - Factor - By The Foot - Per Foot.docx
11/14/2014 02:00 PM 57,009 PELV Cable - Purchase - Where To Buy It.docx
11/14/2014 03:55 PM 24,817 Phoenix Connector - 4 Port Connector On The Back Of The Grafik Eye - Factor - Connects Multiple Grafik Eye.docx
11/10/2014 04:04 PM 300,350 Photos - Checking The Grafik Eye Zones With One Light And Two Cables.docx
11/10/2014 02:01 PM 448,285 Photos - Dimming Receptacle - NTR-15-DFDU - Not Installation - Just Photos Of It Out Of The Box.docx
11/04/2014 03:32 PM 627,974 Photos - Gang Box - Installation - The Two Box Method.docx
11/10/2014 11:45 AM 374,198 Photos - Gang Box - Installation - Using Wire Ties To Hold The Wires - But Taking The Wire Ties Off Before Covering.docx
11/06/2014 02:20 PM 161,967 Photos - IR Emitter Attached To The Back Of Seating.docx
11/14/2014 04:09 PM 8,050,749 Photos - Lutron Grafik Eye - Installation.docx
11/10/2014 02:08 PM 446,180 Photos - Lutron RP-FDU-10 Mating Plug For The Dimmable Receptacle - Its A Two Prong Plug That You Have To Change Your Rope Light End With.docx
11/14/2014 03:36 PM 43,102 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Factor - Had To Order Them In Bulk Size 100 Per Bag.docx
11/14/2014 03:19 PM 556,088 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Factor - Wide Connector Is Better - Lays Flat.docx
11/14/2014 04:08 PM 36,279 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy Them From - eBay.docx
11/14/2014 04:54 PM 46,416 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy Them From - TMcG Can Sell You A Few.docx
11/14/2014 03:36 PM 43,602 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye - Purchase - Where To Buy Them From.docx
11/14/2014 03:11 PM 556,089 Photos - Push In Connectors - Lutron Grafik Eye Installation.docx
11/07/2014 11:24 AM 41,263 Questions - Is The Wiring For A Grafik Eye The Same As With Other Dimmers - Yes - Only Difference - Adding Wall Stations Or Accessories.docx
11/06/2014 10:24 AM 31,516 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - Better Ability To Deal With Individual Zones From A Keypad.docx
11/06/2014 10:39 AM 33,609 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - Features.docx
10/31/2014 02:01 PM 40,290 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - IR Receiver That Does Not Require a PELV Type Wire To The Grafik Eye.docx
11/07/2014 01:31 PM 37,751 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - Lutron Makes RF Controlled Version Of GE Called RadiaRA.docx
11/14/2014 10:03 AM 33,873 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - Retrofit - Will Work For Multiple Locations.docx
11/06/2014 10:49 AM 32,905 RadiaRA - Purchase - Factor - Starter Kit.docx
10/29/2014 02:56 PM 42,753 Retro Install - Stima - 3 Switch Locations - One 4 Way Switch At Base Of Stairs - Two 3 Way Switches At Either End Of Hall.docx
10/29/2014 03:57 PM 35,368 Retro Install - Toggling Lights Without Effecting The Zone.docx
11/17/2014 05:02 PM 29,988 Rope Lighting - Both LED And Incandescent - Purchase - Factor - Voltage - 12v Lighting Is Usable - But The Power Supply Has To Be MAGNETIC Or SWITCHING And Is Denoted As DIMMABLE - VERY EXPENSIVE.docx
11/12/2014 03:37 PM 30,204 Rope Lighting - Compatability - Purchase.docx
11/13/2014 04:55 PM 27,629 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - Factor - Low Wattage Draw Of A Rope Light Is An Issue You Have To Consider.docx
10/29/2014 09:53 AM 30,373 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - LUT-LBX - Synthetic Minimum Load - Allows Dimmer To Control Low-Wattage Loads From 0 To Dimmers Minimum Rating.docx
10/29/2014 12:49 PM 27,333 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye - Experiences - No Problem With Rope Light Without The LUT-LBX Synthetic Minimum Load.docx
11/10/2014 11:42 AM 29,707 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye - Factor - My Outlets Are Regular Outlets But They Are Hidden In The Crown Molding - Not Easily Accessable.docx
10/29/2014 09:54 AM 29,458 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye - Factor - Electronic Low Voltage Interface MUST Be Used With a Control Unit.docx
10/28/2014 01:56 PM 20,887 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye - Factor - Ensure That The Zone Is Set Up For The Appropriate Load.docx
10/29/2014 09:26 AM 27,014 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye - Factor - It Pulls Too Small Of A Current.docx
10/29/2014 09:28 AM 38,192 Rope Lighting - Connectivity - To Grafik Eye.docx
10/27/2014 04:01 PM 26,259 Rope Lighting - Electrically Connecting The Grafik Eye To An Outlet For Powering With Grafik Eye - Required Voltage.docx
11/05/2014 02:45 PM 42,012 Rope Lighting - Electrically Connecting The Grafik Eye To An Outlet For Powering With Grafik Eye.docx
11/17/2014 04:58 PM 24,089 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Connectivity - Factor - Low Wattage Draw Issue - Look At The WATTS PER FOOT Rating And Calculate From There.docx
11/18/2014 10:30 AM 24,743 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase - Factor - Can Truly Dim To Extremely Low Levels Without Flickering Like LED Rope Lights.docx
11/17/2014 04:55 PM 23,529 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase - Factor - Length.docx
11/18/2014 11:56 AM 29,126 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase - Factor - Voltage - 120v Etc.docx
11/18/2014 10:47 AM 24,780 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase - Where To Buy It - 1000bulbs - Factor - Free Shipping Coupon Code.docx
11/18/2014 10:46 AM 28,926 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase - Where To Buy It - 1000bulbs.com.docx
11/18/2014 10:46 AM 25,105 Rope Lighting - Incandescent - Purchase.docx
11/14/2014 04:22 PM 42,905 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Experiences - Dims Fine.docx
11/18/2014 11:20 AM 34,780 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Factor - Flickering At Low Levels - At About 20-25 Percent Of Their LUMEN Level Output.docx
11/17/2014 04:54 PM 43,072 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Factor - Length.docx
11/14/2014 11:42 AM 34,611 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Factor - Low Wattage Draw Issue - Rope Lights Are Usually 3 Watt Per Foot.docx
11/13/2014 04:03 PM 27,936 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Factor - Low Wattage Draw Issue - LED Rope Lights Are Usually 1 Watt Per Foot.docx
11/18/2014 09:49 AM 35,549 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity - Factor - Voltage - 120v Etc..docx
11/18/2014 11:39 AM 44,708 Rope Lighting - LED - Connectivity.docx
11/12/2014 04:59 PM 32,052 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Connectivity - Dimmable LED Driver - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/12/2014 04:59 PM 31,530 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Connectivity - Dimmable LED Driver - Purchase.docx
11/12/2014 04:57 PM 33,721 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Connectivity - Grafik Eye Compatability.docx
11/17/2014 03:33 PM 40,660 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Connectivity - Installation - Factor - Low Voltage Power Supply - Where It Goes In The Chain Order etc.docx
11/17/2014 05:04 PM 25,678 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Purchase - The 5050 Light Kit RGB - Where To Buy It.docx
11/17/2014 03:42 PM 25,457 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Purchase - The 5050 Light Kit RGB.docx
11/17/2014 04:53 PM 27,469 Rope Lighting - LED - Flexible Strips - Purchase - Where To Buy It - OrangeTreeTrade.com.docx
11/18/2014 09:48 AM 30,129 Rope Lighting - LED - Purchase - Bird Dog Distributing.docx
11/18/2014 10:52 AM 36,629 Rope Lighting - LED - Purchase - Factor - Better Life Expectancy Than Incandescent.docx
11/18/2014 11:56 AM 33,991 Rope Lighting - LED - Troubleshooting - Jump In Brightness After Going Down To 20 Percent - After Taking Out Step Lights Which Are On The Same Zone.docx
11/03/2014 04:24 PM 31,210 SeeTouch - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/30/2014 01:32 PM 33,519 SeeTouch - Purchase - Factor - They Are Internally Lighted.docx
11/04/2014 11:15 AM 35,923 SeeTouch - Purchase.docx
11/04/2014 01:18 PM 31,369 SeeTouch QS - Purchase.docx
11/12/2014 02:51 PM 30,805 Software - The Lutron Grafik Eye Software.docx
11/07/2014 01:30 PM 34,235 Spacer System - How It Works - Understand Command Codes For Scenes 1-4 While GE Understands 1-16.docx
11/07/2014 01:50 PM 39,386 Spacer System - Programming - Blending A Scene.docx
10/28/2014 01:46 PM 34,197 Spacer System - Purchase - Cost.docx
10/28/2014 09:41 AM 32,648 Spacer System - Wall Stations - Factor - It Is Necessary To Install Wall Stations For Each Zone.docx
11/18/2014 01:25 PM 33,333 Switching Module - Required For LED Lights - Installation - Location.docx
11/18/2014 11:37 AM 31,546 Switching Module - Required For LED Lights - Purchase.docx
11/07/2014 05:05 PM 45,509 Technical Support - Be Persistant And Ask If There Is Someone Who Might Have A More Complete Answer - You Can Get To A Guy Who Knows Exactly How To Answer Your Question.docx
11/12/2014 04:31 PM 40,109 Technical Support - Call Them - They Will Tell You More Than You Ever Wanted To Know.docx
11/06/2014 03:00 PM 41,166 Technical Support - Call Them If You Have A Question About Effect On Dimming When You Are Close To The 25 W Minimum (2).docx
11/07/2014 02:33 PM 41,217 Technical Support - Call Them If You Have A Question About Effect On Dimming When You Are Close To The 25 W Minimum.docx
11/07/2014 02:34 PM 45,170 Technical Support - Each Person Seems To Have Partial Answers - Sometimes They Conflict.docx
11/07/2014 04:16 PM 41,670 Technical Support - Email Support - They Will Respond Within 48 Hours To Get What You Need.docx
11/12/2014 04:07 PM 41,234 Technical Support - Emailed Them But Go Unanswered.docx
11/18/2014 11:58 AM 21,670 Technical Support - Its 100 Percent Free.docx
11/13/2014 10:09 AM 33,882 Technical Support - Received The 'Maybe It Works' 'Maybe It Doesn't Work' Response.docx
11/12/2014 04:21 PM 41,282 Technical Support - They Have Great Support.docx
11/07/2014 04:15 PM 41,231 Technical Support - Was On Infinite Hold For 45 Minutes - They Never Came Back To The Phone.docx
11/04/2014 03:15 PM 41,268 Tools - Purchase - General All - Factor - Insulated - To Stop Electricution.docx
11/12/2014 11:56 AM 42,451 Troubleshooting - Grafik Eye Causing Interference Noise Lines On Plasma Flat Screen TV.docx
11/12/2014 03:58 PM 37,429 Troubleshooting - Grafik Eye Destroyed - A Short In One Of The Zones Destroyed It.docx
11/18/2014 11:24 AM 32,941 Troubleshooting - Grafik Eye Works Fine For 20 Minutes Then It Cuts All The Lights Off Then They Come Right Back On - Stay On For 5 Minutes Then Righ Back Off.docx
11/13/2014 10:02 AM 34,735 Troubleshooting - IR Repeater - Universal Remote Control URC - RF Signal Problem To GE - Remote Works Everything Else Except GE.docx
11/13/2014 10:05 AM 36,478 Troubleshooting - IR Repeater Working With a Bug Flasher In Front Of GE - Not Working When Using Wire Cable 3.5mm Into The GE IR.docx
11/11/2014 03:38 PM 37,876 Troubleshooting - LEDs On Each Zone Are Not Dimming To Their Lowest Darkest Level - Everything Else Works Though.docx
11/14/2014 02:21 PM 36,861 Troubleshooting - Lights Flash When Not Wanting Them To - After Chaning One Preset To Another - One Zone Flashing On And Off - Had To Turn Zone Off And On To Fix It.docx
11/14/2014 11:40 AM 37,984 Troubleshooting - Need To Use Two Power Wires To Grafik Eye - How Do I Do It.docx
11/12/2014 08:38 AM 84,229 Troubleshooting - PELV Cable Was Cut Into By The Drywall Contractor.docx
11/12/2014 10:38 AM 128,441 Troubleshooting - Power Tripping When Pressing Different Wall Station Scenes.docx
11/17/2014 12:22 PM 2,150,164 Troubleshooting - Setup Mode Not Working - Setup Mode Is Holding Scene 1 And Off - Fix Was To Run A Jumper From Hot 1 To Hot 2.docx
11/13/2014 11:43 AM 33,261 Troubleshooting - Step Lights - Will Not Turn Off Unless Everything Else Is Turned Off - They Will Turn On If Everything Is Is Turned Off Though.docx
11/11/2014 03:36 PM 37,569 Troubleshooting - Wall Station - Connectivity - Not Going Into Setup Mode - Not Cycling - PELV Wire Was Not Connected To GE.docx
11/04/2014 02:25 PM 33,754 Wall Stations - General - Do Not Use 120V Power At All - Except The NTGRX-1S.docx
11/03/2014 01:41 PM 31,247 Wall Stations - General - Purchase - Cost.docx
11/03/2014 05:03 PM 31,567 Wall Stations - General - When You Need Them.docx
11/06/2014 11:48 AM 28,275 Warranty - Lutron Generally Honors The Warranty On Older But Unused Units.docx
11/04/2014 01:18 PM 39,037 Wire Nuts - Those Cone Shaped Things To Connect The Grounds And Neutrals Together - Purchase - Factor - You Must Buy The Correct Size For The Number Of Wires.docx
11/04/2014 11:42 AM 35,681 Wire Nuts - Those Cone Shaped Things To Connect The Grounds And Neutrals Together - Purchase - Where To Buy Them.docx
11/17/2014 11:44 AM 34,466 Wiring - Size - Purchase - Gauge Size - Considering What Amp Rate The Circuit Is - 14G Wire For 15 Amp Circuit OR 12G Wire For 20 Amp Circuit.docx
11/17/2014 11:30 AM 22,883 Wiring - Size - Purchase - Gauge Size - Factor - 6 Zones - You CAN Use 14 Gauge Provide Total Load Does Not Exceed 20 Percent On A 15 Amp Circuit.docx
11/17/2014 10:54 AM 22,294 Wiring - Size - Purchase - Gauge Size - Factor - Lutron Recommends 12 Gauge For 6 Zone Units.docx
11/04/2014 02:41 PM 45,065 Zones - Calculating And Planning Zones.docx
11/04/2014 02:38 PM 46,427 Zones - Spreadsheet Outlining Zones.docx
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## manfrog

Rookie lighting question...


For a TV/Theatre room that will have the lights controlled within the room and no other rooms is a GRX what I should look at? Or just simple dimmers - probably do two zones within the room, but cost wise I am thinking the simple approach is what I need?


Lighting is one of the things I am thinking now as I design my first build....hence the rookie comment 


Thanks!


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## LeBon

You probably want something remote-controllable. I'm using Leviton Vizia RF+ dimmers. Another choice would be Lutron Radio RA2. I chose the Vizia RF+ because the control softare is readily available, unlike that for the Lutron. 

I think the Grafik Eye is less attractive now that we have theses other types of dimmers, although I used one in my last theater.


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## helmsman

manfrog said:


> Rookie lighting question...
> 
> 
> For a TV/Theatre room that will have the lights controlled within the room and no other rooms is a GRX what I should look at? Or just simple dimmers - probably do two zones within the room, but cost wise I am thinking the simple approach is what I need?
> 
> 
> Lighting is one of the things I am thinking now as I design my first build....hence the rookie comment
> 
> 
> Thanks!


manfrog: That's exactly what I used in my theater for the same reason - only one room, in my case three zones (screen lights, ceiling pinhole lights, and center chandelier - I use the GRX-3104) - and I wanted to set up some lighting scenes and integrate it into my remote. My scenes are all lighting full on, "sports" (screen lights off, other lights fairly dim), and "movies" (same as sports but even dimmer). There's a fourth zone I haven't even set up yet. Easy to install, just use the existing wiring going into your light switch box, and you don't need to mess with any software - programming is simple and right on the panel, and once you set it up you'll probably never mess with it again, if you do it's super simple. You can save some money by picking up one of these on eBay. The remote control feature is nice too.


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## manfrog

LeBon said:


> You probably want something remote-controllable. I'm using Leviton Vizia RF+ dimmers. Another choice would be Lutron Radio RA2. I chose the Vizia RF+ because the control softare is readily available, unlike that for the Lutron.
> 
> I think the Grafik Eye is less attractive now that we have theses other types of dimmers, although I used one in my last theater.


 Thanks LeBon!

I quickly looked at the RF+...so what I am seeing is that I could set up "pre-set" scheme's of lighting for different needs at the click of a button essentially? That's all I really need. I have my old Harmony One remote that can control some dimmers I think.


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## manfrog

helmsman said:


> manfrog: That's exactly what I used in my theater for the same reason - only one room, in my case three zones (screen lights, ceiling pinhole lights, and center chandelier - I use the GRX-3104) - and I wanted to set up some lighting scenes and integrate it into my remote. My scenes are all lighting full on, "sports" (screen lights off, other lights fairly dim), and "movies" (same as sports but even dimmer). There's a fourth zone I haven't even set up yet. Easy to install, just use the existing wiring going into your light switch box, and you don't need to mess with any software - programming is simple and right on the panel, and once you set it up you'll probably never mess with it again, if you do it's super simple. You can save some money by picking up one of these on eBay. The remote control feature is nice too.



Thanks Helmsman!


Just to be clear though...you went with the GRX-3014 right? I quickly looked up the price (~$900 US$) and that might be more than I planned for light control...but your examples are exactly what I want to do!! Is that the only real option? Going to investigate LeBon's RF+ and see what it can do for me as well


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## helmsman

manfrog said:


> Thanks Helmsman!
> 
> 
> Just to be clear though...you went with the GRX-3014 right? I quickly looked up the price (~$900 US$) and that might be more than I planned for light control...but your examples are exactly what I want to do!! Is that the only real option? Going to investigate LeBon's RF+ and see what it can do for me as well


I use the GRX-3104 (not sure if miss-typed 3014). You should be able to get one for around $400 on eBay. I would agree with LeBon that the Vizia RF+ is a little more attractive, but I like all my lighting zones going into each individual scene, giving me one-button-push control from the panel (although I often use the remote).


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## LeBon

helmsman said:


> ...but I like all my lighting zones going into each individual scene, giving me one-button-push control from the panel (although I often use the remote).


If I understand what you mean here, the Vizia RF+ allows control of multiple zones (dimmers) from a single 4-scene (button) controller.


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## helmsman

LeBon said:


> If I understand what you mean here, the Vizia RF+ allows control of multiple zones (dimmers) from a single 4-scene (button) controller.


No, the Vizia RF+ allows you to set up 4 scenes for one zone. You need a separate switch/dimmer for each zone. That's why I went with the Grafik Eye 3104. I can wire 4 separate zones (although I only have three) into the same switch, and I can program each scene with a different level for each zone.

Full disclosure, I have never used the Vizia RF+ but I was curious after reading your post. You can see their installation instructions here:

http://www.smarthomeusa.com/product_images/l/Leviton/LV-VRCS4-MRZ/LVVRCSMRx_Instrument.pdf

Hope that helps and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

And you can see the Grafik Eye installation instructions here:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/032101a200112.pdf


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## LeBon

helmsman said:


> No, the Vizia RF+ allows you to set up 4 scenes for one zone. You need a separate switch/dimmer for each zone. That's why I went with the Grafik Eye 3104. I can wire 4 separate zones (although I only have three) into the same switch, and I can program each scene with a different level for each zone.
> 
> Full disclosure, I have never used the Vizia RF+ but I was curious after reading your post. You can see their installation instructions here:
> 
> http://www.smarthomeusa.com/product_images/l/Leviton/LV-VRCS4-MRZ/LVVRCSMRx_Instrument.pdf
> 
> Hope that helps and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct that each zone requires a separate dimmer. I am installing the dimmers in my equipment closet, and only the 4-button scene controller in the room. I will have 7 zones, all of which can be controlled from the 4-button scene controller. I will control remotely using iRule. My build is new construction, so I have some additional flexibility on installation locations.


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## manfrog

LeBon said:


> You are correct that each zone requires a separate dimmer. I am installing the dimmers in my equipment closet, and only the 4-button scene controller in the room. I will have 7 zones, all of which can be controlled from the 4-button scene controller. I will control remotely using iRule. My build is new construction, so I have some additional flexibility on installation locations.



Zones...scene's....aren't we talking about lights being on/dimmed or my one room? haha


Maybe I am missing something..


I will have one room with lets say 8 recessed cans (LED likely).
I would like them to be turned on to pre-determined levels (i.e back 2 dim to half output, while rest are off...or all can's on a 1/4 output when movie is done) 


Is this a scene? Or a zone? Or is the scene what I want each zone of lights to do (say 4 zones of 2 lights to total the 8 lights in the room).


if the RF+ can handle this and cheaper then great...but what parts do I need to make this happen? ???separate dimmers??? 


Sorry this is all rookie $%#^ I know but please help my brain wrap around this concept. Gone are the days of on/off, dim lol...love this hobby!


----------



## manfrog

helmsman said:


> I use the GRX-3104 (not sure if miss-typed 3014). You should be able to get one for around $400 on eBay. I would agree with LeBon that the Vizia RF+ is a little more attractive, but I like all my lighting zones going into each individual scene, giving me one-button-push control from the panel (although I often use the remote).



yes my mis-type...its the 3104. The link I saw first with google was: https://www.platt.com/platt-electri...Lutron/GRX-3104-T-WH/product.aspx?zpid=291875 and its $900


----------



## LeBon

manfrog said:


> Zones...scene's....aren't we talking about lights being on/dimmed or my one room? haha
> 
> 
> Maybe I am missing something..
> 
> 
> I will have one room with lets say 8 recessed cans (LED likely).
> I would like them to be turned on to pre-determined levels (i.e back 2 dim to half output, while rest are off...or all can's on a 1/4 output when movie is done)
> 
> 
> Is this a scene? Or a zone? Or is the scene what I want each zone of lights to do (say 4 zones of 2 lights to total the 8 lights in the room).


In Vizia lingo, a "zone" is a group of dimmers and lights that are controlled as a unit. A "scene" is a group of zones=dimmers set to different levels.
So in your example, you might have 2 dimmers = 2 zones. One zone would include the 2 cans in the back, and another zones with the other 6 cans. Then Scene 1 might have both dimers on full, a second scene might have the back zone on, and the front zone off, a third scene might have both zones a 1/2 level, and a fourth scene might have both zones off.


----------



## manfrog

LeBon said:


> In Vizia lingo, a "zone" is a group of dimmers and lights that are controlled as a unit. A "scene" is a group of zones=dimmers set to different levels.
> So in your example, you might have 2 dimmers = 2 zones. One zone would include the 2 cans in the back, and another zones with the other 6 cans. Then Scene 1 might have both dimers on full, a second scene might have the back zone on, and the front zone off, a third scene might have both zones a 1/2 level, and a fourth scene might have both zones off.



Thanks LeBon!


So in reading through the Leviton info and knowing my setup:

one room,
8 cans,
lets say 3 zones (ZONE1 - back two cans, ZONE2 middle 4 cans, ZONE3 front two cans)
and then 4 "scenes" - all off, all dimmed to X level (tbd), front 2 on at 75%, back 2 on at 75%) - or whatever setup I finally decide on
Am I correct in assuming I need the following pieces:


Scene Controller - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRCS4-MRZ&section=44147&minisite=10251
Scene Capable Dimmers (3 - for the 3 zones??) - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRMX1-1LZ&section=44140&minisite=10251
Remote - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRMR1-SG&section=44144&minisite=10251


I will be using LED's and I do want to keep it down in terms of cost (i.e. the cheaper remote )...so if I could do something cheaper int he above setup please do let me know 


Can this setup be controlled by an ipad app "if" I wanted down the road...not important now just asking about future possibilities.


Again thanks...and happy new year!


----------



## LeBon

You're on the right track with the components needed.

I plan to control my Vizia RF+ via a VeraEdge controller and iRule running on an iPad.

As I understand it, you could also control with IR, using a GlobalCache IR gateway from iRule.


----------



## manfrog

LeBon said:


> You're on the right track with the components needed.
> 
> I plan to control my Vizia RF+ via a VeraEdge controller and iRule running on an iPad.
> 
> As I understand it, you could also control with IR, using a GlobalCache IR gateway from iRule.



Thanks! Will continue to investigate this stuff haha


----------



## helmsman

manfrog - I may be making an obvious point but I presume you're running a separate line or circuit from each of your can-groupings back to your switching location (i.e. one line for the back 2 cans, a second for the middle 4, and a third for the front 2). 

Also, be aware of limitations when using certain LED setups. For example, I use regular halogens in my recessed pinhole ceiling lights, incandescent in my chandelier, and color-changing LEDs on my screen lights. The LEDs are not dimmable from the dimmer (my Lutron Grafik Eye in this case) and required a separate power switching module (which connects to between the dimmer and the LED power supply) to interface it with my dimmer. No big deal, but don't presume you can add LEDs and have them work with your particular dimmer. In my case, the only way to dim my programmable LEDs is via their own remote. Wasn't an issue for me because once I programmed the color scheme I wanted I didn't need to do anything else. I only want them full on or off anyway. The only thing I miss is having them fade off as opposed to switch off.


----------



## johnhaydock

*Controlling Grafik Eye by ZigBee or Zwave*

Does anybody know of a way to control the Grafik Eye by ZigBee or ZWave? I know there is a Lutron QSE-10. I could go from Zwave to contact closure to the QSE-10 to the Grafik Eye. But I am looking for something a little more elegant and less costly.


----------



## HT_SoulMan

manfrog said:


> Thanks LeBon!
> 
> 
> So in reading through the Leviton info and knowing my setup:
> 
> one room,
> 8 cans,
> lets say 3 zones (ZONE1 - back two cans, ZONE2 middle 4 cans, ZONE3 front two cans)
> and then 4 "scenes" - all off, all dimmed to X level (tbd), front 2 on at 75%, back 2 on at 75%) - or whatever setup I finally decide on
> Am I correct in assuming I need the following pieces:
> 
> 
> Scene Controller - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRCS4-MRZ&section=44147&minisite=10251
> Scene Capable Dimmers (3 - for the 3 zones??) - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRMX1-1LZ&section=44140&minisite=10251
> Remote - http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=VRMR1-SG&section=44144&minisite=10251
> 
> 
> I will be using LED's and I do want to keep it down in terms of cost (i.e. the cheaper remote )...so if I could do something cheaper int he above setup please do let me know
> 
> 
> Can this setup be controlled by an ipad app "if" I wanted down the road...not important now just asking about future possibilities.
> 
> 
> Again thanks...and happy new year!


Too many components for just one room. The 3104 might be more feasable. Everything at one central unit...


----------



## manfrog

HT_SoulMan said:


> Too many components for just one room. The 3104 might be more feasable. Everything at one central unit...



Can you explain? My thought (and I have seen it used on builds here)...dimmer connected to each "zone" (or set of lights I want to be able to control independently. So in this scenario there would be 3 zones. These dimmers switches would be hidden in room. 


Scene controller would be the only thing you see and it controls lighting for what I would be doing in the room (i.e scene 1, scene 2, etc...)


----------



## eyekode

If the goal is ip control have you considered Philips hue? Should be cost competitive and way easier to "install".


----------



## triplejs15

eyekode said:


> If the goal is ip control have you considered Philips hue? Should be cost competitive and way easier to "install".



I have an HAI Omni system and wondered if I should even use the grafik eye setup, seems to me I could just use UPB switches and have the same results for a lot less, or am I missing something??


----------



## eyekode

I think it depends on your setup and goals. I have 6 zones. That would look pretty odd with 6 separate full sized dimmers.

I also dont really want individual controls for each zone.

That said things like the Philips hue have a huge advantage in install. It took me months to figure out how I wanted my zones arranged. Redoing the wiring after everything is finished and painted would be an awfull terrible pain.

In the end I am happy I went with the gfx. It is intuitive for my family and still gives me all the control (and remote control) I have needed. 
Salem


----------



## arryo

I got GRX-3103 system, and I'm able to add it as a device in my Harmony Ultimate Home, but I can't control it with the remote. Could someone tell me what I should do?


----------



## helmsman

arryo said:


> I got GRX-3103 system, and I'm able to add it as a device in my Harmony Ultimate Home, but I can't control it with the remote. Could someone tell me what I should do?


Does the 3103 respond to commands from the Lutron OEM remote (assuming you have one)? That would tell you if the problem is with your grafik eye or how you programmed the Harmony remote.


----------



## TMcG

arryo said:


> I got GRX-3103 system, and I'm able to add it as a device in my Harmony Ultimate Home, but I can't control it with the remote. Could someone tell me what I should do?


That's the problem with a harmony in these situations. You either have to have the main base unit "flash" an IR target in your equipment area that ships that IR code over Cat 5 to an IR emitter stuck to the face of your Grafik Eye IR target, or the Logitech base unit has to be line-of-site to the Grafik Eye itself so the Grafik Eye can receive the IR signals. 

The hardwired control of the Grafik Eye is RS-485, FYI. They make IP control for the Grafik Eye but you would need to buy that separate interface.


----------



## helmsman

Ah, I thought he was using IR already but you're probably right. My mistake.


----------



## arryo

TMcG said:


> That's the problem with a harmony in these situations. You either have to have the main base unit "flash" an IR target in your equipment area that ships that IR code over Cat 5 to an IR emitter stuck to the face of your Grafik Eye IR target, or the Logitech base unit has to be line-of-site to the Grafik Eye itself so the Grafik Eye can receive the IR signals.
> 
> The hardwired control of the Grafik Eye is RS-485, FYI. They make IP control for the Grafik Eye but you would need to buy that separate interface.


I use the remote not the hub to control my Grafik Eye. My Grafik Eye is actually designed to work with Beo 4 remote out of the box, so I guess Harmony needs to learn the IR from the Beo 4 remote first. I'm going to order one used Beo 4 off ebay to test.


----------



## arryo

helmsman said:


> Does the 3103 respond to commands from the Lutron OEM remote (assuming you have one)? That would tell you if the problem is with your grafik eye or how you programmed the Harmony remote.


Do you use Lutron OEM remote?


----------



## helmsman

arryo said:


> Do you use Lutron OEM remote?


Yes, I picked on up on eBay. I don't recall if I programmed by Harmony remote via software or by using the learn command and inputs directly from the Lutron remote, but both remotes work fine.


----------



## Ryan Rosser Byorick

Can anyone point me to an earlier post or provided some advise regarding using iRule with a Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6P and QSE-CI-NWK-E. I have been using iRule successfully for several months on regular devices (via GC-100). I just bought my Grafik Eye and the Ethernet adapter. Using the Lutron IPConfig tool, it is recognizing that the Grafik Eye is connected on my network. In iRule though, when I go to try to configure the device it only seems to allow me to assign it to the GC-100 which it isn't directly connected to. How do I get thing working?


----------



## jautor

Ryan Rosser Byorick said:


> Can anyone point me to an earlier post or provided some advise regarding using iRule with a Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6P and QSE-CI-NWK-E. I have been using iRule successfully for several months on regular devices (via GC-100). I just bought my Grafik Eye and the Ethernet adapter. Using the Lutron IPConfig tool, it is recognizing that the Grafik Eye is connected on my network. In iRule though, when I go to try to configure the device it only seems to allow me to assign it to the GC-100 which it isn't directly connected to. How do I get thing working?


I just connected my GrafikEye to iRule via IR using the GC-100, but you'll need to add the Ethernet adapter in iRule as a Gateway (like the GC-100 is). Then hopefully there's already a set of "network" commands in the GrafikEye device for iRule - otherwise you'll have to add those.

Jeff


----------



## Ryan Rosser Byorick

jautor said:


> I just connected my GrafikEye to iRule via IR using the GC-100, but you'll need to add the Ethernet adapter in iRule as a Gateway (like the GC-100 is). Then hopefully there's already a set of "network" commands in the GrafikEye device for iRule - otherwise you'll have to add those.
> 
> Jeff


So after doing some more research last night I came across a post on the Global Cache site which described connected the IR directly into the Grafik Eye (via cutting the blaster off) then hooking it to the GC100. Is this how you are doing it? If this IR method works, then I am trying to find a compelling reason to even keep the Ethernet adapter in the picture.

You mentioned entering the codes into iRule. How would I come about these codes? I've configured my iRule but not from a hard core code perspective. In the device look up, looks like only the IR commands are available.

Cheers


----------



## jautor

Ryan Rosser Byorick said:


> So after doing some more research last night I came across a post on the Global Cache site which described connected the IR directly into the Grafik Eye (via cutting the blaster off) then hooking it to the GC100. Is this how you are doing it? If this IR method works, then I am trying to find a compelling reason to even keep the Ethernet adapter in the picture.


Yes, my GrafikEye is a QS model that has the IR input on the back. So I ran a piece of PELV wire from there, eventually to the GC-100. Once I figured out that this would work, yeah, I passed on the $$ Ethernet interface module.



> You mentioned entering the codes into iRule. How would I come about these codes? I've configured my iRule but not from a hard core code perspective. In the device look up, looks like only the IR commands are available.


You'd need to add them, by copying the IP commands from the Lutron API documentation into the iRule definition for the GrafikEye. The documentation is available from the Lutron site (don't have it handy).

Jeff


----------



## nosdude

Ryan Rosser Byorick said:


> So after doing some more research last night I came across a post on the Global Cache site which described connected the IR directly into the Grafik Eye (via cutting the blaster off) then hooking it to the GC100. Is this how you are doing it? If this IR method works, then I am trying to find a compelling reason to even keep the Ethernet adapter in the picture.
> 
> You mentioned entering the codes into iRule. How would I come about these codes? I've configured my iRule but not from a hard core code perspective. In the device look up, looks like only the IR commands are available.
> 
> Cheers


Please let me know how this turned out Ryan. I am getting ready to do the same thing.

Thx


----------



## AXLCMT

*Lutron DFDU Dimmable Receptacles - Electrical Wire and Daisy Chaining Them*

I'm wiring my room now for my Rope Lights which will be connected to the Lutron Grafik Eye QS.

I'm going to be using the Lutron DFDU Dimmable Receptacles for the rope lights to plug into.

Question 1:

Will 14/2 wire work to connect the Lutron DFDU Dimmable Receptacles to the Grafik Eye?

Question 2:

Can Lutron DFDU Dimmable Receptacles be daisy chained?


----------



## AXLCMT

Can anyone clarify if a Cat5 cable can be used to connect a IR Receiver Blaster to a Grafik Eye QS IR Ouput?
I know that Cat 5 is 4 pairs of twisted wires, but can I use "two" 2) of the twisted pairs to connect to the Grafik Eye QS IR Output "IR Com" and "IR Data".

In other words, one of the twisted pair can go into "IR Com" and the one other twisted pair can go to "IR Data"???


----------



## AXLCMT

Just noticed this while reading the specs on my Grafik Eye QS-J (wireless).

The max load for each of my zones is not 800, but 500?
And the max load for the entire Grafik Eye QS (wireless version - J) is 2300??? (mine is a 6 zone)

Can someone confirm?

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/QSGRK-xPCE%20Spec%20Submittal.pdf


----------



## dllewel

AXLCMT said:


> Just noticed this while reading the specs on my Grafik Eye QS-J (wireless).
> 
> The max load for each of my zones is not 800, but 500?
> And the max load for the entire Grafik Eye QS (wireless version - J) is 2300??? (mine is a 6 zone)
> 
> Can someone confirm?
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/QSGRK-xPCE%20Spec%20Submittal.pdf


This document (page 1) seems to state differently (800W for 120V system, 1200W for the 240V).

Do you actually have the 240V model? Try to find your full model number in the documentation to be sure which it is. There are so many models it is confusing. 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Grafik Eye QS.pdf 


Disclosure: I am no expert but wanted to help. I've read a lot of this thread lately as I recently purchased a 3506.


----------



## AXLCMT

dllewel said:


> This document (page 1) seems to state differently (800W for 120V system, 1200W for the 240V).
> 
> Do you actually have the 240V model? Try to find your full model number in the documentation to be sure which it is. There are so many models it is confusing.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Grafik Eye QS.pdf
> 
> 
> Disclosure: I am no expert but wanted to help. I've read a lot of this thread lately as I recently purchased a 3506.


Thanks Dllewel:

*This is my exact model:*
*Lutron QSGRJ-6P-WH 6- zone GRAFIK Eye QS Wireless Main Unit*


----------



## dllewel

That model (QSGRJ-6P) is listed in the documentation link I provided, so it should be a good reference for you. Here it is again: 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Grafik Eye QS.pdf

The document shows on page 4 that it can be wired to either 120-127V or 220-240V so it appears that unit is compatible with either type. So depending on what voltage you are connecting it to at your breaker, the Wattage for the total unit and per zone is shown on page 1. Read through it and hopefully it will provide what you need. Best of luck to you AXLCMT.


----------



## AXLCMT

When connecting a few dimmable outlets to one zone on my Grafik Eye QS, which will be powering 3-4 *dimmable* rope lights, do I need to look into buying a "driver" somewhere in the equation to make all of this work? 

I admit I am clueless about a lot of the Grafik Eye specifications, but I thought I read somewhere in these forums that a *"driver"* is needed.

Also, I had an electrcian come out to give an estimate and said that he would need to verify which model dimmable rope lights I will be using to help him figure out which *"drivers"* he need to buy to make the rope light dimmable by the Grafik Eye QS.


----------



## jautor

AXLCMT said:


> When connecting a few dimmable outlets to one zone on my Grafik Eye QS, which will be powering 3-4 *dimmable* rope lights, do I need to look into buying a "driver" somewhere in the equation to make all of this work?


What kind of rope lights? LED or incandescent? 120VAC or 12/24VDC? That will make all the difference... 

120VAC rope light can be run directly from the GrafikEye as long as you meet the load min/max specs. DC loads will need a driver.


----------



## AXLCMT

Thanks jautor!!!!


----------



## AXLCMT

Just a question for all of you Grafik Eye "QSers" 

With the *Raco 698* 4 gang box, and the installation of the *Grafik Eye QS*, as far as the wiring goes, which "punch outs" do you punch through on the _*Raco 698*_, and take out to allow the wires to enter the box?


----------



## andystowe

Where is the best place to buy a Grafik Eye at? What model are you all using now? I am hoping to build a home theater in the next few months so just trying to get some information on stuff now.

Thanks


----------



## jautor

andystowe said:


> Where is the best place to buy a Grafik Eye at? What model are you all using now? I am hoping to build a home theater in the next few months so just trying to get some information on stuff now.


Talk to Paul from Hank's Electric (he's here on the forum often - @spiwrx ).

The QS models are the 'current' versions and probably the ones to look at for a theater. Just be aware that if you're looking at lots of LED loads, the GrafikEye may not be the best choice (because the minimum load on each 'zone'/circuit is fairly high compared to the latest CL dimmers). Certainly worth a cost and functionality comparison to a Caseta setup. 

I hope Lutron will release an updated GrafikEye built from the CL dimmer technology so it keeps up with the times!

Jeff


----------



## andystowe

Thanks for the info. When I do mine, I will probably have can lights around the soffit/overhang, blue LED Rope lights on top of the soffit/overhang, some wall sconce lights, and maybe a star ceiling. I will have a few zones that has the lights on full, medium, and low...something like that. Do you think the QS would be good for that?


----------



## spiwrx

andystowe said:


> Thanks for the info. When I do mine, I will probably have can lights around the soffit/overhang, blue LED Rope lights on top of the soffit/overhang, some wall sconce lights, and maybe a star ceiling. I will have a few zones that has the lights on full, medium, and low...something like that. Do you think the QS would be good for that?


I just sold a job with a very similar application. Depending on the aesthetic requirments I would recommend indivdual dimmers (RR2) if you are leaning towards home control. If it's just for your theater the QS should be fine. It's been pretty forgiving with LED loads but there is potential to need a special interface. 

Specifically to your post:


"LED blue rope" typically uses a magnetic driver f dimmable which is fine on the QS (treated as MLV)
 Can lights are fine _(if LED retro trims and/or lamps are used cross check against the www.lutron.com/led "Product selection tool" or LED mnf. website, basically if the LED requires ELV you more than likely will need a PHPM interface)_
Sconces, typically incandescent, but if LED be mindful of min zone wattage (25w) _(same is true with above can lights in regards to the 25w and the LED potential)_
Star Ceiling is tricky on the QS but the one we just did, you set the zone to non-dimming (and/or relay isolate it) With the star ceiling you usually have a motor to control (non-dim) for twinkle or color wheel and a light generator that could be various lamp types so you may need 2 zones just for the ceiling stars or put them together as the dimming is not likely necessary for the stars


----------



## spiwrx

For those of you unaware (maybe it was mentioned prev. in this thread) the Lutron 3000 series Grafik eye is discontinued. It may still be ordered through their obsolete parts division, but pricing will deter you most like, into considering the newer QS version. 

Some of the collateral accessories are still available though most have also transitioned to QS counterparts.


----------



## andystowe

spiwrx said:


> I just sold a job with a very similar application. Depending on the aesthetic requirments I would recommend indivdual dimmers (RR2) if you are leaning towards home control. If it's just for your theater the QS should be fine. It's been pretty forgiving with LED loads but there is potential to need a special interface.
> 
> Specifically to your post:
> 
> 
> "LED blue rope" typically uses a magnetic driver f dimmable which is fine on the QS (treated as MLV)
> Can lights are fine _(if LED retro trims and/or lamps are used cross check against the www.lutron.com/led "Product selection tool" or LED mnf. website, basically if the LED requires ELV you more than likely will need a PHPM interface)_
> Sconces, typically incandescent, but if LED be mindful of min zone wattage (25w) _(same is true with above can lights in regards to the 25w and the LED potential)_
> Star Ceiling is tricky on the QS but the one we just did, you set the zone to non-dimming (and/or relay isolate it) With the star ceiling you usually have a motor to control (non-dim) for twinkle or color wheel and a light generator that could be various lamp types so you may need 2 zones just for the ceiling stars or put them together as the dimming is not likely necessary for the stars


Thanks for all of this information. I am only planning on having the theater controlled off of the QS...not worried about the other rooms of the house. Do you have any rope lights that you recommend? I haven't really looked into it much yet because I haven't sold my current house...but I would like some recommendations if you have any.


----------



## spiwrx

andystowe said:


> Thanks for all of this information. I am only planning on having the theater controlled off of the QS...not worried about the other rooms of the house. Do you have any rope lights that you recommend? I haven't really looked into it much yet because I haven't sold my current house...but I would like some recommendations if you have any.


Regular incandescent ropelight seems to be the best if you want actual "Rope" (Round / low intensity). LED rope tend to be problematic as it can be more directional and has to be positioned carefully in some cases. Likewise the cutting distance on the 120v/LED versions can be troublesome to work with. 

If you want LED I would recommend any of the LED tapes / flexible strips. I occasionally have blue tapes, but if you want a color you may also want to consider the RGB (color changing)variation. You can use single color RED / BLUE / GREEN with just simple switching, or buy a controller and get some fancy blends, fades, or just about any color.


----------



## andystowe

spiwrx said:


> Regular incandescent ropelight seems to be the best if you want actual "Rope" (Round / low intensity). LED rope tend to be problematic as it can be more directional and has to be positioned carefully in some cases. Likewise the cutting distance on the 120v/LED versions can be troublesome to work with.
> 
> If you want LED I would recommend any of the LED tapes / flexible strips. I occasionally have blue tapes, but if you want a color you may also want to consider the RGB (color changing)variation. You can use single color RED / BLUE / GREEN with just simple switching, or buy a controller and get some fancy blends, fades, or just about any color.


I see that you are a reseller/dealer of these items. If the waters ever part just right for me...I will get with you on exactly what I am wanting to do then you can tell me what I need and get me a price up for the materials if that sounds good to you?


----------



## spiwrx

andystowe said:


> I see that you are a reseller/dealer of these items. If the waters ever part just right for me...I will get with you on exactly what I am wanting to do then you can tell me what I need and get me a price up for the materials if that sounds good to you?


Yes, but I'm on AVS mostly to support the RadioRa2 and Grafik Eye QS inquiries. Please contact me directly(quickest) or by IM here. Thanks, paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net.


----------



## AXLCMT

Can anyone confirm what the definition of *"mixing loads*" is regards to the Grafik Eye QS?

I have read a few times of discussion on this thread that you should not mix load types.

Are you guys saying that you should not say have Zone 1 be setup on the Grafik Eye as *"Incandescent"*, and then Zone 2 be "*LED*".

When you are saying "not to mix load types" are you saying that the above example should not be done.

I plan on having multiple zones and some will be Incandescent and others will be LED.


----------



## AXLCMT

*Are these considered low voltage lights?*

Are these lights (see link below) considered "low voltage" and therefore would require a "ELVI Interface" to work with the Grafik Eye?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_289424-53058-9201101_1z0vgcs__?productId=1241365&pl=1&AID=10935405&PID=6155355&SID=iah6d1xnrc00s3dy00e43&cm_mmc=AFF_CJ-_-6155355-_-2470763-_-10935405


----------



## spiwrx

AXLCMT said:


> Can anyone confirm what the definition of *"mixing loads*" is regards to the Grafik Eye QS?


The intent is not to mix different load types on a single zone, and mainly LED, MLV, and ELV. _[Keeping in mind that LED can sometimes be a LED, MLV (dimmable tapes) or ELV(some repl. lamps and retro kits)]_. 

Typically you can mix incandescent with MLV and/or ELV without issue & sometimes you need to, to bring the load to a minimum wattage. But you would set the load type to MLV or ELV depending on what it is. 

Each Zone needs to be set for it's load type and if it's defined in the setup you can just select it, if it's ELV* or 0-10v, some fluorescent or beyond it's single zone wattage limit (800) then you need some sort of interface. 

_*Some types of ELV will work fine on Incandescent setting, check with the light fixture manufacturer. _


----------



## spiwrx

AXLCMT said:


> Are these lights (see link below) considered "low voltage" and therefore would require a "ELVI Interface" to work with the Grafik Eye?


The lamp in this is a GU10, 120v Halogen typically, it is definitely not low voltage. There is no transformer or driver in this fixture. 

Set your Grafik Eye for Incandescent. 

Note: These type of fixtures are nice because they are small and inexpensive, but the GU10 based lamp is know to have poor life (frequent lamp changes) and more so in a smaller fixture where there is more heat build up. If you plan on using this, there are some great LED lamps out there for replacement which it great for lamps life, but may require a different setting and/or interface on the Grafik Eye. 

Unfortunately you would have to test yourself if you decide to go LED/GU10/MR16 on this. From my experience the Grafik Eye is fairly forgiving of these types of LED, you do have to watch the minimum wattage (20-25w) and expect to have to trim or avoid the bottom end dimming(lowest dimming settings).


----------



## AXLCMT

spiwrx said:


> The lamp in this is a GU10, 120v Halogen typically, it is definitely not low voltage. There is no transformer or driver in this fixture.
> 
> Set your Grafik Eye for Incandescent.
> 
> Note: These type of fixtures are nice because they are small and inexpensive, but the GU10 based lamp is know to have poor life (frequent lamp changes) and more so in a smaller fixture where there is more heat build up. If you plan on using this, there are some great LED lamps out there for replacement which it great for lamps life, but may require a different setting and/or interface on the Grafik Eye.
> 
> Unfortunately you would have to test yourself if you decide to go LED/GU10/MR16 on this. From my experience the Grafik Eye is fairly forgiving of these types of LED, you do have to watch the minimum wattage (20-25w) and expect to have to trim or avoid the bottom end dimming(lowest dimming settings).


Thanks.
I plan on buying these LED lamps and replacing them with the lamps that come in the box.
Will these LED lamps be dimmable and should I then change the Grafik Eye "type" to "LED" instead of "Incandescent"?

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/111204/SUNSUN-XMR16GU10730.html


----------



## spiwrx

AXLCMT said:


> Thanks.
> I plan on buying these LED lamps and replacing them with the lamps that come in the box.
> Will these LED lamps be dimmable and should I then change the Grafik Eye "type" to "LED" instead of "Incandescent"?
> 
> https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/111204/SUNSUN-XMR16GU10730.html


You'll have to contact them. Typically they say explicitly that they are dimmable if they are. _(& usually a little more expensive if they are dimmable). _

TCP is a favorable brand and not that much more, do a search for "dimmable GU10 LED"
https://www.google.com/search?q=dimmable+LED+GU10&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=dimmable+LED+GU10&tbm=shop


----------



## AXLCMT

spiwrx said:


> You'll have to contact them. Typically they say explicitly that they are dimmable if they are. _(& usually a little more expensive if they are dimmable). _
> 
> TCP is a favorable brand and not that much more, do a search for "dimmable GU10 LED"
> https://www.google.com/search?q=dimmable+LED+GU10&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=dimmable+LED+GU10&tbm=shop


Here are the specs:

Looks like it is dimmable:


----------



## doublewing11

I have a two year old 3106 GE which has worked flawlessly with one exception........my steplight zone.

Original steplight install, electrician used non dimmable LED's which I was never happy with. On turning off system, steplights would pump light and eventually trickle to nothing or an extremely faint light pulse. Two weeks ago install replacement LED's which I thought were dimmable but evidently not........same light pumping but worst! Finally gave up notion of LED's, ordered two 7 watt incandecent steplights which worked great.......dimmable with proper lighting intensity. About 20 minutes after watching a movie......GE tripped breaker........went to sub-panel and couldn't get breaker to work.

This morning, pulled all steplights out..........checked for shorts or loose wires.......re-tightend nuts.......went to sub-panel, flipped breaker........worked.

I'm thinking A) loose wire in steplight/s B) load on GE with steplight zone was too low. c) Protection circuit was tripped due heat, load or whatever


Any thoughts? GE has been rock solid up until my antics with these darn steplights! HELP PLEASE!


----------



## Tedd

Isn't there a 40 watt (or was it 25 watt) minimum load per zone? Might have something to do with it???


----------



## doublewing11

Tedd said:


> Isn't there a 40 watt (or was it 25 watt) minimum load per zone? Might have something to do with it???


That could be the case......

Have bulbs burning at full tilt, with resistance in wiring suspect close to required 25 watts. When GE tripped breaker, two step lights were at lowest level possible.


----------



## bombertodd

Is the required watts calculated at full power or dim? What would happen if I had 3x10w LED's that dimmed to 3x4w?


----------



## Tedd

Minimum load. You would be below the threshold.


----------



## TMcG

I would refute this. I've had Grafik Eyes for almost 20 years, including 7 in my current home. I have a 6 zone GRX-3106 in my kitchen and one of the zones is a single light above the sink. It is a 50w bulb with GU10 base, but I can assure you it can be dimmed to the lowest minimum level (i.e the first click up from 'off') where the filament is barely burning. I guarantee it is using far less than 25 watts.

All LED drivers and loads are different, so I'd suggest trying it out IF you are starting with an LED fixture that's marked dimmable in the first place.


----------



## Tedd

The minimum load is what Lutron specs, so maybe it's a case of potential oddball issues, depending on bulb type, cropping 
up. 

A decade ago, I had issues with just two riser lights on a zone, but it's never been a problem with two 50 watt PAR20 4"spots, on 
a single zone. I simply added two more lights to the riser zone, by "extending" that zone into the furnace room. Dimming worked 
properly, problem solved.  

How hard would it be, to add a couple of temporary fixtures to the problematic zone? That would rule out a problem with the GE, 
versus load issues. 


I wouldn't compare halogen to an LED. A single halogen is likely throwing off wattage in heat, then what several LED's consume. 


I do know some people are having success with LED's though, but some aren't.


----------



## TMcG

There are 37 incremental dimming steps for each Grafik Eye zone. I'm well aware of the Grafik Eye specs (I'm actually Homeworks / Lutron certified and have designed many different lighting systems for up to 30,000 sq. ft. private residences), but I'm also telling you that one 50w halogen at the first step turns on, holds steady and has no ill effect on the Grafik Eye. If I was more motivated, I'd pull out the Grafik Eye and measure the output voltage going to this fixture. 

If you don't have the capacity to add lights, you can add small in-line resistors. In the case of LED, use the 25 watt resistor in a metal box somewhere inconspicuous, if needed. All LED drivers are different in the way they dim and each has to be independently certified to be compatible with a particular dimming switch, including the Grafik Eye. Without knowing precisely the specifications of these lights, you're left with experimentation to see if it works reliably.


----------



## spiwrx

doublewing11 said:


> I have a two year old 3106 GE which has worked flawlessly with one exception........my steplight zone.
> 
> Original steplight install, electrician used non dimmable LED's which I was never happy with. On turning off system, steplights would pump light and eventually trickle to nothing or an extremely faint light pulse. Two weeks ago install replacement LED's which I thought were dimmable but evidently not........same light pumping but worst! Finally gave up notion of LED's, ordered two 7 watt incandecent steplights which worked great.......dimmable with proper lighting intensity. About 20 minutes after watching a movie......GE tripped breaker........went to sub-panel and couldn't get breaker to work.
> 
> This morning, pulled all steplights out..........checked for shorts or loose wires.......re-tightend nuts.......went to sub-panel, flipped breaker........worked.
> 
> I'm thinking A) loose wire in steplight/s B) load on GE with steplight zone was too low. c) Protection circuit was tripped due heat, load or whatever
> 
> 
> Any thoughts? GE has been rock solid up until my antics with these darn steplights! HELP PLEASE!


I would have to guess there was a short, and you're really lucky you didn't kill you GE. Anything less than a short wouldn't have caused the breaker to trip. Some of those incandescent type step light have very exposed terminals and it would be easy and likely a ground wire would come in contact. 

If you had a min. load issue (which you also likely have) the zone would flash, not go on at all, or stay on and not go off. The GE s really forgiving of the min. load, especially with incandescent loads, but any ballast(CFL) or driver(LED) driven load you should look out for. The GE will usually die before tripping a breaker, depending on how the fault happens.


----------



## spiwrx

Some one mentioned a few posts back about controlling some Ropelight on DFDU receptacle connected to a GE. Let me just add my 2 cents..

It has been always frowned upon to control receptacles from dimmers. Previous to the DFDU I coudn't tell you haw many GE units we would sell for replacement when a cleaning crew would unplug a lamp to use it for a vacuum. 

That being said the DFDU has a pronounced bump on it so you cannot effectively plug a regular plug into it and you have to purchase separately the RPU male plug end to replace that on the lamp (or ropelight) you want to control. 

If you know, no one will ever mess with it, this is safe. However, if there is any potential for the location of the receptacle to be used for anything else I would strongly encourage to consider a different connection technique. 

The RPU, HFDU (Half-hot or Half Dimmed) & DFDU (Duplex Dimmed, separable)


----------



## Wildbrando

Nice


----------



## reb162

*Prepaid Engraving Certificate Question*

I installed a Grafik Eye QS in my theater (QSGRJ-6P-WH) and have been using it for a while and I'm finally comfortable with the scenes I have set up and I'm ready to finalize them by getting the buttons engraved. The unit I bought was white with a grey stripe and I wanted black so I have already painted the face plate (upper and lower) satin black and then I was just planning to use the enclosed prepaid engraving certificate to get the buttons engraved in a black color to match.

I guess I didn't read the certificate before that well, but it says "Redeemable for one button/faceplate kit".

When I go to the lutron website for the engraving forms (http://www.lutron.com/en-us/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/EngravingSheets.aspx), there are two forms, one for a button kit and one for a faceplate kit including the button kit.

Does this certificate really get me one or the other? In other words, can i order the faceplate kit, say in a metallic color, with the black buttons, with my certficate? My impression was that it only got me buttons, not any faceplate I wanted.

Also, I noted that the form for the buttons only asks for the certificate number while the faceplate kit does not...not sure what that means.

Any advice from those that have ordered their engravings?

Thanks
-Bob


----------



## Jedi

reb162 said:


> Does this certificate really get me one or the other? In other words, can i order the faceplate kit, say in a metallic color, with the black buttons, with my certficate? My impression was that it only got me buttons, not any faceplate I wanted.



....I would call Lutron and ask how do I get both. Their customer service is quite good.


----------



## spiwrx

reb162 said:


> ....Any advice from those that have ordered their engravings?
> 
> Thanks
> -Bob


The "prepaid engraving" is button(s*) only for the Grafik Eye. You can purchase a new faceplate only as part number QSGFP-(color code) It will include a blank matching set of buttons. The faceplate only does not come with engraving. Only the main or complete unit. 
Replacement engraving can also be purchased.
_(* multiple button kits if with shading zones)_ 

The "Stripe" was supposed to be a configurable color / replacement item but I've never seen it as such. You can specify in a custom engraved replacement cover (paid) the "Stripe" color. But other wise it matches the base color in a "T" translucent version or has a contrasting (unspecified) color in an matching cover. 

Use the Grafik Eye Design tool to preview your options:

https://grafikqsdesigntool.lutron.com/


----------



## Cain

I have a Graphic Eye in my HT. I've used 9 Phillips Par 20 50 watt halogen floods for years. 

I've slowly converting my home over to LED lamps, I've been using G7 spots for my Par 20 cans. 

Yesterday I tried the G7 LEDs in my HT and noticed that the LEDs do not dim down as low as the halogen lamps. 

Does anyone have any experience with LED Par 20s that will dim down as low as the Halogens? Or do I need to change something with my Graphic Eye for the LEDs? 

Many thank for any help!


----------



## TMcG

Cain said:


> Does anyone have any experience with LED Par 20s that will dime down as low as the Halogens? Or do I need to change something with my Graphic Eye for the LEDs?
> 
> Many thank for any help!


Can't be done. This is my big complaint with the current state of LED technology that works with existing incandescent dimmers. There is a minimum amount of power required to turn the LED lights on. Because of LED's efficiency, you tend to get 20-30% of the total lumen output at this minimum setting.

I've found only completely dedicated LED systems (bulbs, controllers, etc.) to have the capability of dimming down to the lowest levels.


----------



## Cain

Thx for the reply. I've been stumbling around the Lutron site they show a Philips Par 20 that they say can be dimmed to 3%. That's probably as good as it gets for now, although I wonder if it will buzz at 3%??

I might buy one and check it out, if I do I'll report back here.


----------



## spiwrx

Cain said:


> Thx for the reply. I've been stumbling around the Lutron site they show a Philips Par 20 that they say can be dimmed to 3%. That's probably as good as it gets for now, although I wonder if it will buzz at 3%??
> 
> I might buy one and check it out, if I do I'll report back here.


Unfortunately there is no consistency in the LED dimming rage between manufacturers or even different model lamps in the same brand. To get real low end dimming you may want to stick to Halogen or incandescent for now. You might also try some of the newer "Warm-Dim" lamps stating to show in the market now. These LED's actually have multiple color chips and dim to a warmer tone, this help get closer to that low end...

Also, be weary of the numbers games on dimming LED some only go to 10-15%, which sounds OK, maybe for the kitchen, but most of the noticeable (perceived) range starts at 20% and low end dimming closer to 5% see here: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Measured_vs_Perceived.pdf

Lutron has done some of the most extensive testing so take a look at their results when shopping for lamps and if you need them to dim well & low you can skip the cheapest of the bunch.... http://www.lutron.com/LED


----------



## Cain

Wow, thanks Paul/Spiwrx. 

I LOVE my 3106 Graphic Eye, BTW. 

Yes, I thought converting my cans in the HT would be as simple as it was in my kitchen -- wrong. The first time I did a complete fade slow dim, the LED bulbs got to about 24% then stayed there until they went off. Yikes!! 

Thank you for the comments and info. I'll just keep my eye on LED technology.

-- Quick Question please. Can I get something to allow me to turn off the lights leading into my HT with my 3106 Graphic eye, or maybe with my iPhone?? Maybe some type of remote, and switch replacement?


----------



## TMcG

Cain said:


> Quick Question please. Can I get something to allow me to turn off the lights leading into my HT with my 3106 Graphic eye, or maybe with my iPhone?? Maybe some type of remote, and switch replacement?


You can get a NTGRX scene selector accessory wall switch or a SeeTouch scene selector accessory keypad. For iPhone control you'll need a Lutron RS-232 or IP interface and an automation system to issue the commands.

I always remotely locate the Grafik Eye for home theaters and use accessory controls for the entry switch. Control through an automation system or smart device is just a bonus because you NEED a hard switch of some sort at the entry to meet code requirements.


----------



## FortKnUX

AXLCMT said:


> Can anyone clarify if a Cat5 cable can be used to connect a IR Receiver Blaster to a Grafik Eye QS IR Ouput?
> I know that Cat 5 is 4 pairs of twisted wires, but can I use "two" 2) of the twisted pairs to connect to the Grafik Eye QS IR Output "IR Com" and "IR Data".
> 
> In other words, one of the twisted pair can go into "IR Com" and the one other twisted pair can go to "IR Data"???


Were you able to find an answer to your question? Were you able to successfully splice the IR blaster cable and control it through GC?


----------



## tidwelr1

Cain said:


> Wow, thanks Paul/Spiwrx.
> 
> I LOVE my 3106 Graphic Eye, BTW.
> 
> Yes, I thought converting my cans in the HT would be as simple as it was in my kitchen -- wrong. The first time I did a complete fade slow dim, the LED bulbs got to about 24% then stayed there until they went off. Yikes!!
> 
> Thank you for the comments and info. I'll just keep my eye on LED technology.
> 
> -- Quick Question please. Can I get something to allow me to turn off the lights leading into my HT with my 3106 Graphic eye, or maybe with my iPhone?? Maybe some type of remote, and switch replacement?


PM sent.


----------



## Cain

Is there a way, or perhaps a newer version of the Graphic Eye that I can control the lights in my HT, and select my pre-programmed scenes from an iPhone?? 

I'm getting to the point where most of my theater's things can be handled by my iPhone, but not my Graphic eye...

TIA


----------



## jautor

Cain said:


> Is there a way, or perhaps a newer version of the Graphic Eye that I can control the lights in my HT, and select my pre-programmed scenes from an iPhone??
> 
> I'm getting to the point where most of my theater's things can be handled by my iPhone, but not my Graphic eye...
> 
> TIA


Which Grafik Eye model do you have? The QS models are RadioRA2 capable, which means you get all of the controls available on RadioRA2, which includes the Lutron mobile app...

If you have something else, you can interface via IR/RS232/Ethernet (again depending on model and wiring available, but I use IR fed from a Global Cache GC-100) and use a remote app like iRule. That's what I'm doing in my theater. Even though I have RadioRA2 throughout the house, the GE in the theater is separate and controlled via iRule.

Jeff


----------



## Cain

I got my Graphic eye in 2001. I'm 95% sure the model is: Lutron: Graphic-Eye 3106


----------



## Valar

Cain said:


> Is there a way, or perhaps a newer version of the Graphic Eye that I can control the lights in my HT, and select my pre-programmed scenes from an iPhone??


You could do that with with a Harmony Hub and the phone app in a couple ways. The normal way would be tapping devices on the main screen then tapping the Lutron controller for a listing of commands. There are multiple pages of them in the build in database so I'd recommend programming the codes manually with a Lutron remote to avoid four pages of command clutter. The other way would be setting each scene to an activity. You'd have to tap back after starting the activity to select another one though. 

I recently picked up the new Harmony Elite remote which has 6 lighting/home automation buttons at the bottom that I programmed to control my Lutron 3506. It seems to be able to reliably control my Grafik Eye and masking system. The hubs bluetooth pairing to the HTPC is also less laggy than IR control from it.

In regards to low dimming LED lighting, a few months ago tried out Philip's $20 Hue Lux bulbs as part of a Hue system. CNET found them to dim to .5% or 4~ lumens but that was still too a bit too much for me in a blacked out room. A couple behind me might have worked for casual TV viewing but that's it. Also, since smart bulbs are individually addressed, they don't all turn on or dim at the exact same time like the Grafik Eye.


----------



## spiwrx

Cain said:


> Is there a way, or perhaps a newer version of the Graphic Eye that I can control the lights in my HT, and select my pre-programmed scenes from an iPhone??
> 
> I'm getting to the point where most of my theater's things can be handled by my iPhone, but not my Graphic eye...
> 
> TIA


The only simple way is really through 3rd party IR piece that will allow iPhone control or replace everything to the QS version with RR2 Main Repeater.


----------



## Cain

So the newer QS version can accept signals from the iPhone, but they must first go through another piece of equipment, the RR2 main repeater??


----------



## jautor

Cain said:


> So the newer QS version can accept signals from the iPhone, but they must first go through another piece of equipment, the RR2 main repeater??


Better explained as: Set up a basic RadioRA2 system with a RadioRA2 Main Repeater and a Grafik Eye QS (which looks like six dimmers and a keypad to the system). Since RadioRA2 has a mobile app, you get that control method included...

Note that to get the configuration software for RadioRA2, you'll have to go through the (free) online training courses. Which may be more work than you want for just this solution. But you might find value in RA2 for the rest of the house...


----------



## hd0823

Got a quick question for you guys I'm looking at the grafik eye gbo 3103 -t-wh but not to familiar with the grafik eye. This is going in a dedicated theater. Just have a few questions is the the same as the 3103 grx exception for being able to use the bang & Olufsen remote. Other question is how many zones do you guys usually use for your theaters


----------



## TMcG

hd0823 said:


> Got a quick question for you guys I'm looking at the grafik eye gbo 3103 -t-wh but not to familiar with the grafik eye. This is going in a dedicated theater. Just have a few questions is the the same as the 3103 grx exception for being able to use the bang & Olufsen remote. Other question is how many zones do you guys usually use for your theaters


They are the same thing with the exception of the remote commands as you noted:



> Lutron Grafik Eye GBO-3100 controller for Bang & Olufsen incorporates B&O IR control interface, otherwise it works as the standard Lutron Grafik Eye GRX-3100 series.


The number of zones depends on the size of your room and how snazzy you'd like to get with the lighting design. I've always used a 6 zone Grafik Eye. At a minimum you would have general downlighting (recessed cans), wall washers around the perimeter (and/or sconces) and many like to wash the screen with light using recessed cans. That would be your three zones right there. If you had a riser you would probably want step lighting.


----------



## hd0823

Thanks I really want to do the 6 zone but I can get the 3 zone for a great deal right now


----------



## hd0823

So I ended up getting the grafik eye gbo 3103 -t-wh now my question is is the bang and olufsen beo4 remote as capable of changing to different scenes or am i better off getting a 4 scene lutron remote. Keep in mind I don't own any other bang and olufsen equipment just got a really really good deal on the grafik eye


----------



## spiwrx

hd0823 said:


> So I ended up getting the grafik eye gbo 3103 -t-wh now my question is is the bang and olufsen beo4 remote as capable of changing to different scenes or am i better off getting a 4 scene lutron remote. Keep in mind I don't own any other bang and olufsen equipment just got a really really good deal on the grafik eye


I can still get the remote from Lutron for you but there should be several other 3rd party remotes that are programmable or pre-programmed for Grafik Eye 3000. IM me or email paul (at) hankselectric (dot) net for more info. You do not need the bang olufsen remote unless you have another reason for it...


----------



## midgetspy

Hey guys,

If anybody has a GRX-3000 series and is interested in:


controlling your lights from your phone/tablet (or from an RF/Bluetooth remote, or from an IR remote without line of sight)
automating your lights based on events from other devices
automating other devices based on the status of your lights

I wrote some software to do that for me, it's posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/162-h...n-rs232-ethernet-devices-eventghost-kodi.html

All you need is a GRX-RS232 or similar (GRX-PRG, GRX-AV, GRX-CI-RS232, etc)... I bought one off ebay for $40. I'm not sure if it'll work with the QS series or other models but I'm happy to add support if somebody wants to help test.

I just figured I'd post in case it was useful to anybody but me :0)


----------



## AXLCMT

midgetspy said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> If anybody has a GRX-3000 series and is interested in:
> 
> 
> controlling your lights from your phone/tablet (or from an RF/Bluetooth remote, or from an IR remote without line of sight)
> automating your lights based on events from other devices
> automating other devices based on the status of your lights
> 
> I wrote some software to do that for me, it's posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/162-h...n-rs232-ethernet-devices-eventghost-kodi.html
> 
> All you need is a GRX-RS232 or similar (GRX-PRG, GRX-AV, GRX-CI-RS232, etc)... I bought one off ebay for $40. I'm not sure if it'll work with the QS series or other models but I'm happy to add support if somebody wants to help test.
> 
> I just figured I'd post in case it was useful to anybody but me :0)


Thats cool. Thanks for sharing. I have a Lutron Grafik Eye QS that I would be happy to help test it out with your EventGhost DIY automation with thorough diligence!
Wow! I can't believe this thread was alive and kicking at one point and now nobody has posted in over 100 days...At one point a Lutron Grafik Eye was the staple of an HT. I guess after I install mine this month I will see how special it makes the HT experience. Lol.


----------



## AXLCMT

Here is the current layout drawings for the *CURRENT* setup in the room.
I have *3 Lutron Diva Dimmer Switches* at the main entrance and two "3 way" regular switches at the other entrance.

*HERE IS THE 3 LUTRON DIVA SWITCHES CURRENT WIRING SETUP AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE:*









Here is the* CURRENT* wiring layout for the side entrance with the two regular *"3 way"* switches:










Here is a *"map"* to show you the room and where the *3 Lutron Diva switches* are (main entrance) and the other entrance (with the two regular *"3 way"* switches):









I am going to be replacing the *3 Lutron Diva Switches* with a L*utron Grafik Eye QS*. I am going to be replacing the 2 regular* "3 way"* switches at the other entrance with one Lutron "Pico" switch. *The Pico Switch* will wirelessly connect to the Lutron Grafik Eye QS:

Here is the wiring diagram of what the box will look like AFTER the Lutron Grafik Eye QS is installed. Here is the *ONLY QUESTION(S)*:









1. What do I do with the existing *"traveller"* (red wires) wires going between the two room entrances? As you can see in this projected layout drawing for when the Lutron Grafik Eye QS is installed, I suggest that I simply tie the 3 *"Traveller"* wires together with a Wire Nut. Is that a solution?

Question 2: What do I do with the *"power" *wires and the *"traveller"* wires that go to the OTHER entrance (with the 2 regular *"3 way"* switches)? Do I just wire nut the traveler wires together, and then wire nut the neutral wires together, but then install individual wire nuts to each and every *POWER* wire (black wires) to their own individual wire nut (ie don't tie the power/black wires together)?


----------



## spiwrx

AXLCMT said:


> Here is the current layout drawings for the *CURRENT* setup in the room.
> I have *3 Lutron Diva Dimmer Switches* at the main entrance and two "3 way" regular switches at the other entrance.
> 
> *HERE IS THE 3 LUTRON DIVA SWITCHES CURRENT WIRING SETUP AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the* CURRENT* wiring layout for the side entrance with the two regular *"3 way"* switches:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a *"map"* to show you the room and where the *3 Lutron Diva switches* are (main entrance) and the other entrance (with the two regular *"3 way"* switches):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to be replacing the *3 Lutron Diva Switches* with a L*utron Grafik Eye QS*. I am going to be replacing the 2 regular* "3 way"* switches at the other entrance with one Lutron "Pico" switch. *The Pico Switch* will wirelessly connect to the Lutron Grafik Eye QS:
> 
> Here is the wiring diagram of what the box will look like AFTER the Lutron Grafik Eye QS is installed. Here is the *ONLY QUESTION(S)*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. What do I do with the existing *"traveller"* (red wires) wires going between the two room entrances? As you can see in this projected layout drawing for when the Lutron Grafik Eye QS is installed, I suggest that I simply tie the 3 *"Traveller"* wires together with a Wire Nut. Is that a solution?
> 
> Question 2: What do I do with the *"power" *wires and the *"traveller"* wires that go to the OTHER entrance (with the 2 regular *"3 way"* switches)? Do I just wire nut the traveler wires together, and then wire nut the neutral wires together, but then install individual wire nuts to each and every *POWER* wire (black wires) to their own individual wire nut (ie don't tie the power/black wires together)?


Looks good but you shouldn't do anything but cap the "useless" travelers, individually. If they remain unconnected on the other end it doesn't matter but it's bad practice and confusing if someone works on it behind you, they'll be wondering why you did that...

Leave all the unused wires at either end capped and/or taped individually, don't splice any unused wires together. Disconnect them all.


----------



## AXLCMT

spiwrx said:


> Looks good but you shouldn't do anything but cap the "useless" travelers, individually. If they remain unconnected on the other end it doesn't matter but it's bad practice and confusing if someone works on it behind you, they'll be wondering why you did that...



Thanks Paul for that confirmation. 

Small world isn't it? Of course I purchased my Grafik Eye and the Pico switch from none other
than you personally...the best in the business.


----------



## AXLCMT

After purchasing my Lutron Grafik Eye QS Dimmer (5 zone) back in November 2014, I finally installed it a month ago.
I had researched Angie'ls List for local electricians and I had a spreadsheet of twenty local electricians who I intially 

contacted
to get estimates and only one guy ended up coming out to give me an estimate. Every electrician I spoke to gave me attitude
about installing it because it was more complex than they have ever seen. The one guy that came and took a look at it gave me an 

estimate of $900.00 plus dollars which did not include the drywall finishing work (which would have cost me an additional $100-

$200 plus for a total of $1000.00 to install this thing). My wife said she would not let me install this because she is extra 

paranoid of anyone doing DIY electrical work, so I had to install it behind her back, but in the long run she is happy I did it. 
In hindsight there was a guy that said he would do it for $200-300 but I didn't trust him and I wanted it done quick. He 
had no clue how to install it so I thought I was better off doing it myself and I am glad that I did.

It was very very easy to install because I have been preparing and preparing for over 1 year to install it which included re-

reading this Grafik Eye thread over and over again, copying every single post on this thread and saving each post into 

categories I created
which I reviewed constantly. I also was on the phone with Lutron many many times with questions. The Lutron Tech support is 

nothing less than stellar as far as their ability to answer questions and issues you have. As of the end of 2014, I never even 

installed an electrical outlet, and I would like to thank the initial creator of this thread for making it because I would never 

have been able to install this dimmer.

I guess all of the electricians gave me attitude because they never installed one before and the Lutron Grafik Eye QS borders on 

"home automation".

Here is the photo of the Lutron Grafik Eye QS from the front:









Here is a photo of it from the "top" (you can see that I modified the image to show how many 14/2 wires and 14/3 wires etc are 

going to the dimmer:









Here is a photo of the "side" of the dimmer (you can see the IR COM and IR Data wires for the remote control/automation control 

features of this dimmer):


















Even with the electrical schematic diagram I made below, after emailing 20+ electricians in my area, none wanted to do it...
http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s553/axlcmt5/DIY%20CHATROOM%20-GRAFIK%20EYE%20INSTALLATION%20LAYOUT

%20DIAGRAM_zpsm7xw6s6u.jpg

Here is the wiring diagram for the "current" electrical layout for the 3 current Lutron Diva dimmer switches which I had to 

remove
in order to install the Lutron Grafik Eye in its place:









Overall room "zones" before the Lutron Grafik Eye installation:
http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s553/axlcmt5/CURRENT%20ROOM%20-%20THE%203%20ZONES%20%20AND%20Light

%20control_zpskfii9dqx.png


----------



## AXLCMT

Here is the layout diagram of wiring for the "other" entrance into the room. I ended up not touching these, but above it I plan 

on installing my Lutron Pico Wireless Switch. I had to leave these two switches below in the "ON" position in order to have all 

of the zones working AFTER I installed the Grafik Eye:









This is the Raco 698 3.5" deep box that fit the Grafik Eye perfectly. There was PLENTY of room for the dimmer in this box:









Before I installed the dimmer though, I had to replace all of my can lights with these "retro-fit" dimmable Cree 6" lights.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Cree-TW-Series-65W-Equivalent-Soft-White-2700K-6-in-Dimmable-

LED-Retrofit-Recessed-Downlight-DRDL6-06227009-12DE26-1C100/205337184

I brought them all with a 10% coupon at Home Depot so the cost wasn't expensive:

I knew they would work with the Lutron Grafik Eye because when I google this model of lights, I found that Lutron tested them 

with their Grafik Eye and they had a report with the results. I had no choice but to get them because the lights that were 

already installed in the ceiling were not dimmable and would not have worked with the Grafik Eye.
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/ResourceLibrary/LEDReportCard/Report%20Card%20Cree%201773%20downlight

%20DRDL6-06227009-12DE26-1C100%2012%20RevA.pdf


























First I had to take out the trim for the old lights:

































Here were the replacements (Cree retrofit kit - LED dimmable)


















The can light "housing" ready for the Cree LED retro-fit kits:

















I of course had to have the electrical circuit breaker powered off for this area. Another reason why the work lights were great 

investment...


----------



## AXLCMT

I removed all of the already installed trim and lights (they were not LED) first, then I lined up all of the Cree LED kits on 

the bar,
ready to be installed into their new home.









The 3 Lutron Diva dimmer switches which had to be removed, which had to be replaced by the Grafik Eye:

















First screw to for the removal stage....coming out:


























The 3 Lutron Diva switches are out (almost):

























The three Lutron Diva switches are out!









Then it was time to straighten the current wiring in the current box. 









Double checking with the "power sensor" to make sure there is no voltage in the power coming from the circuit breaker panel:

















In order to remove the current electrical gang box, I had to cut away the drywall to reveal the screws that held 
it to the framing:

















The screws that held the current gang box are out!









Removing more drywall to expose the nails that held the current gang box in:


----------



## AXLCMT

Carefully remove the current gang box, being sure not to damage any of the wires:









No, this is not the right tool to remove the current gang box. These are heavy duty cutters but they pulled it out nonetheless.

































I finally got it out! Wow! That was a pain in the butt!

















I had to use a camera to see what was going on within the framing above the dimmers. As you can see (or maybe not see because it 

is too dark) are the two extra 14/2 runs I ran for the extra rope light zones and the ambiance lights above my home theater 

screen:









Then I pulled down the two runs that were there waiting for about 9 months to be installed:









I had previously labeled them "can" and "rope": This helped because I could determine which zone number I could give each:

















Here was the 10BaseT "Cat6" wire I also ran from the component rack to the Grafik Eye in order to control the Grafik Eye with 

my Harmony Ultimate Remote:


















When I was cutting the drywall, I accidentally "nicked" the power wire sheathing coming from the circuit breaker. So just to 

make sure I did not penetrate any wires inside the sheathing, I cut open the sheathing higher up and I wrapped it with 

electrical tape:









Then I had to cut open the area more to make room for the Raco 698 gang box:

















Here I cut out more than I needed to above the opening in order to get the wires into the Raco 698 gang box:









This was a 2 x 4 that was already installed. I had to remove it because it was in the way:


----------



## AXLCMT

Once the opening was ready to install the Raco 698 gang box, it was time to punch out the holes for the clamp rings:

















Before I installed the Raco 698 gang box though, I decided to strip the wires the required 5/16" length as instructed by Lutron 

for the Grafik Eye. First thing I did for this was just cut the wire ends clean:









Then I stripped each wire end 5/16"









All of the wires have been stripped and they are all straight, ready to go through the clamp rings in the gange box:










































First wires through the ring clamps are in:
I was able to fit two wires into each ring clamp. I had to do this. There was no way the wires would fit if I didn't:

































Unfortunately I had to cut a hole through the back side of the wall to the room behind the Grafik Eye in order to get it in:


























These 8 port push in connectors made it a lot easier to use less room. They helped save a ton of space. Use these instead of the 

traditional wire nuts to save room:


----------



## AXLCMT

First I tied all of the neutrals together:









I did purchase "stranded wire" from home depot and my plan was to use them to wire from the push in connectors to the Grafik Eye 

because of how flexible and bendable they are but alas they did not go in well into the push-in connectors and I therefore was 

forced to strip the sheathing off some 14/2 wire and used the regular electrical wires instead (I was lucky in that I had some 

extra 14/2 laying around to do this!!!!!!)









All of the neutral wires are in!

















As you can see I had to add a piece of 2 x 4 below the Raco 698 gang box in order to hold up the box:









Then it was time to breakout the RJ45 "Breakout Boards" to connect the Cat6 RJ45 cable to the 18/2 wire to the Grafik Eye
IR Com/IR Data connectors:


















































I brought some "shrink wrap" to cover the 18/2 wire that I attached to the RJ45 Breakout Board purchased from Gravitech.us
This is the low voltage wire going to the Cat6 wire which is going to the component Rack:

















Then I wrapped the RJ 45 Breakout Board with electrical tape to keep the connection stronger in case the 18/2 wire or the Cat6 

got pulled:

















Then I connected the IR Com and IR Data ports on the Grafik Eye to the 18/2 wire: (I had to remember which colored wire 
when to IR Data/IR Com so that I can correctly wire the other end of the RJ45 Breakout Board in the component rack room which 

was the other end of the Cat6 wire.


----------



## AXLCMT

Believe it or not, the IR Com/IR Data connector on the Grafik Eye can pop out to make it easier to install the wiring, then pop 

it back in:









The Grafik Eye "four horsemen" (ie the four screws that attached the Grafik Eye to the Raco 698 gang box.
First you have to remove the 1/32" thin bezel that covers the top of the Grafik Eye to gain access to the two top screw holes:

























After I fit it in, then had to completely remove the Grafik Eye in order to fix the drywall holes around the gang box:
Here is a sheet with the dimensions of the drywall boards I had to cut to cover the drywall holes:









































The back wall (other room):









Before I started sanding the drywall mud, I of course covered the Raco 698 gang box with blue tape (many layers!) in order to 

stop
dust from entering the box. We do not want any complications.









After sanding drywall mud, I performed another layer of drywall mud because there were many issues with an uneven surface, then 

sanded, then drywall mud, then sand again, wash, rinse repeat. It took about 1 whole week of after hours work to keep trying to 

fix this before I could paint:

























Then I could finally install the Grafik Eye:









I had a "dumb blond" moment where I had no idea how to install the "scene buttons" on the Grafik Eye.
I thought that you had to install them on the bottom face plate cover and I kept banging my head trying to figure
out how why the bottom face plate cover would not close. It took a few calls to Lutron Tech Support in order for them to get
it through my thick skull that the "scene buttons" get attached to the Grafik Eye itself, after you take off the "fake" 

temporary plate that have on there to protect the Grafik Eye during shipping:
Here are the photos of my failed attempts to get the "scene buttons" onto the face plate and as you can see the face plate would 

not close: *DO NOT DO THIS, THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF WHAT I DID WRONG REGARDING THE SCENE BUTTON INSTALL

*









































This is how the "scene buttons" get attached to the Grafik Eye QS. You have to remove a "plate" that is pre-installed on the 

Grafik Eye in order to attached the scene buttons.









Then you put on the top and bottom "cover plates"









As of today I have programmed all 5 scenes. 

After stripping the 3.5mm wire that goes into the Harmony Hub, I wired the two wires into the RJ45 Breakout Board in the 

component rack area and then connected the "other" end of the blue Cat6 wire to the RJ45 Breakout Board in the component rack 

area. I got lucky and on the first try, after programming my Harmony Ultimate to control the Grafik Eye, I was able to turn on 

and off Scenes 1-4 through the Harmony Ultimate remote! I couldn't believe it! I was ready for some major head banging 

troubleshooting fun but alas it escaped me!!

I have gone as far as when I press the "Play" button on the Harmony remote, the lights slowly dim and when I press "Pause" one 

of the scenes goes on and the the lights go to 50% bright. I will share with you all my exact scene programs in a later post.


----------



## hd0823

So to get the harmony ultimate remote to work with the grafik eye what all needs to be done. Is it just cat6 cable


----------



## TheNecromancer

Hi, today I picked up a GRX-3106 on a whim. I went to a guys house to buy a sofa and here he had this Grafik Eye installed in the room. I asked him about it and he offered it to me at $200. He's moving soon and basically parting out the theater. I had no time to research it but took a shot in the dark and bought it. It's accompanied by a fairly fancy (but older) URC MX-5000 remote.

My question is, will this unit work with LED bulbs?


----------



## RockDawg

I am considering a GRX-3106 for my new theater room and I have a few questions:

1. My installation should be pretty straight forward. The GE will only control the theater and no other switches/dimmers will be installed. Does that make it pretty much as simple as as wiring a gang of switches? My electrician has never even heard of this before. 

2. Do they come with an IR receiver by default or is that an additional option? I would like to control it with a remote.

3. Am I correct that it may be unreliable when dimming LED lights? Should I just stick with incandescent with this unit?


----------



## spiwrx

RockDawg said:


> I am considering a GRX-3106 for my new theater room and I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. My installation should be pretty straight forward. The GE will only control the theater and no other switches/dimmers will be installed. Does that make it pretty much as simple as as wiring a gang of switches? My electrician has never even heard of this before.
> 
> 2. Do they come with an IR receiver by default or is that an additional option? I would like to control it with a remote.
> 
> 3. Am I correct that it may be unreliable when dimming LED lights? Should I just stick with incandescent with this unit?


GRX-3106 is discontinued, replaced by QSGRJ-6P. 

Either will Allow for IR but 3000 series is on the front (have to stick a bug eye on the cover) and the current QS version as a rear provision. 

The newer QS is pretty tolerant of LED but you may be forced into a interface adapter if it doesn't work. If you don't have many lights you may want to consider staying with incandescent or check that your LED's have been tested with a Grafik Eye (www.lutron.com/led).

Also consider their Radio Ra system. You can operate up to 10 pieces manually programmed without a repeater. and they have some specific dimmers for LED. If you opt for the repeater you can control from your phone / tablet also. You may spend a little more for the Radio Ra but you may work yourself into a hole with the Grafik Eye. Also, you can expand the Radio Ra 2 system to your entire home if you like it. You can get one of their basic packages (3 dimmers, keypad, repeater) for about the same price as the QS version of the Grafik eye. The Radio Ra 2 Keypads (regular wall keypads) will integrate your IR, in addition you can integrate with RS-232 or Ethernet.


----------



## RockDawg

spiwrx said:


> GRX-3106 is discontinued, replaced by QSGRJ-6P.
> 
> Either will Allow for IR but 3000 series is on the front (have to stick a bug eye on the cover) and the current QS version as a rear provision.
> 
> The newer QS is pretty tolerant of LED but you may be forced into a interface adapter if it doesn't work. If you don't have many lights you may want to consider staying with incandescent or check that your LED's have been tested with a Grafik Eye (www.lutron.com/led).
> 
> Also consider their Radio Ra system. You can operate up to 10 pieces manually programmed without a repeater. and they have some specific dimmers for LED. If you opt for the repeater you can control from your phone / tablet also. You may spend a little more for the Radio Ra but you may work yourself into a hole with the Grafik Eye. Also, you can expand the Radio Ra 2 system to your entire home if you like it. You can get one of their basic packages (3 dimmers, keypad, repeater) for about the same price as the QS version of the Grafik eye. The Radio Ra 2 Keypads (regular wall keypads) will integrate your IR, in addition you can integrate with RS-232 or Ethernet.


Thanks. My needs are fairly simple. I just want 4 zone scene controlled lighting that can be operated via remote. I would like to go with LED so it sounds like the Grafik Eye QSGRJ-4P would be sufficient. I do not want to spend the money new units go for so I am looking to Ebay. I don't think I want to spend more for the added functionality of the Radio RA units.

Does anyone know if it's possible to have a Harmony remote activate a scene when the pause button is pressed? So when the movie is paused the lights come up some?


----------



## RockDawg

Can the QSGRJ-4P be controlled by an RF remote? I looked on their site and some say non-RF but the list seems inconsistent. For example, they list the QSGR‑3P as non-RF but not the QSGR‑4P. My understanding is that the only difference is that one is 3 zone and the other 4 zone.


----------



## spiwrx

RockDawg said:


> Can the QSGRJ-4P be controlled by an RF remote? I looked on their site and some say non-RF but the list seems inconsistent. For example, they list the QSGR‑3P as non-RF but not the QSGR‑4P. My understanding is that the only difference is that one is 3 zone and the other 4 zone.


From the best of my understanding the QSGR should technically be the Non-RF version, however I don't think they are available and they are the same price. So stick with the available QSGRJ version. You can control RF with one of their PICO controls. 
If used in conjunction with RR2 equipment you can also control from your phone / tablet or 3rd party integration.


----------



## vid53

spiwrx said:


> From the best of my understanding the QSGR should technically be the Non-RF version, however I don't think they are available and they are the same price. So stick with the available QSGRJ version. You can control RF with one of their PICO controls.
> If used in conjunction with RR2 equipment you can also control from your phone / tablet or 3rd party integration.


Hello Paul
Do you know if it is possible to control my 4 zones of can lighting with the Grafik Eye GRX-3506 and the Amazon Alexa by voice control? If not what would I need to purchase to do this? I own the Harmony Remote And Hub 

Thanks
Gary


----------



## spiwrx

vid53 said:


> Hello Paul
> Do you know if it is possible to control my 4 zones of can lighting with the Grafik Eye GRX-3506 and the Amazon Alexa by voice control? If not what would I need to purchase to do this? I own the Harmony Remote And Hub
> 
> Thanks
> Gary


Sorry, I don't think so, the 3000 series is all but obsolete and there is nothing backwards compatible for that application. If you have only 4 zones, you might consider the following to get Alexa control:



Caseta System, 4 dimmers + Smart Bridge
Newer QS Grafik Eye (QSGRJ-4P + Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater + Connect Bridge)
Radio Ra 2 System (4 dimmers (or QS Grafik Eye) + Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater + Connect Bridge)
Pro's & Con's:
*Caseta* is the best value and easiest to configure through a Free App, but you may run into some limitations and there is no upgrade path. If you out grow it, exceed its range or have a stubborn LED you're stuck and have to replace it. 



*Grafik QS *Will require the core Radio Ra 2 components to connect to Alexa, and Radio Ra 2 programming. It might be the nicest looking, but that's all it really has going for it, Especially is you only have 4 zones. Some zones may require interfaces to properly control lighting. Grafik Eye's are Incandescent and MLV rated only, other loads or minimum wattage issues may require the use of interfaces. (Only Bonus is you'll have the RR2 core components and could expand on this throughout your home) 



*Radio Ra 2 *Will require software programming to set up, but using 4x RR2 dimmers will cost less than Grafik QS. If you need a special dimmer, you simply select that as 1 of your 4, and no interfaces. Can expand throughout the home.


----------



## spiwrx

vid53 said:


> Hello Paul
> Do you know if it is possible to control my 4 zones of can lighting with the Grafik Eye GRX-3506 and the Amazon Alexa by voice control? If not what would I need to purchase to do this? I own the Harmony Remote And Hub


Sorry I didn't think about this initially, but there may be some path to the 3500 through your Harmony, I know some of the other thread subscribers are Harmony users maybe they could chime in.... 

_*If*_ it can.... The only way to communicate to the 3500 would be IR in this case, so it would require some IR distribution that works with your harmony/hub and you would be limited to using the scenes on the Grafik Eye. 

Even if you can, it might be quirky and you're basically buying obsolete tech in the 3500.

Sorry I don't have a Harmony (yet) but since it also works with Alexa I think it might be on the Christmas list...


----------



## hd0823

From my understanding by what I've been told by other members that it can be done. I'm in the process of doing it right now. From my understanding you need to buy two rj45 breakout boards a cat 6 cable some 18 /2 wire. You run the 18 /2 to the data ports on the grafikeye orange ones on my 3103 than that gets run to the rj45 breakout board cat 6 goes into board and to equipment closet or room or wherever your harmony hub is that plugs into another rj45 breakout board than 18/2 to the 3.5mm of the harmony hub. If you look at couple post back he has pictures. You can than program the harmony to work with Alexa I've been told what it can control is limited I'll update how it works out for me


----------



## Horta

Friends

I have Grafik Eye GRX-IA-6 and it has been randomly turning on since I installed it. I purchased it used from eBay and have not yet programed it. It was installed by a pro and I had dedicated power line run to the theater just for the lighting. 

Do you all feel I have a bad unit or is it just a matter or reprogramming? I did not wish to waste any time programing if none of you have ever heard of these things just tuning on randomly. It may not happen for days…or it may turn on by itself three times in a row after turning off every time. I have not made it a priority yet, because my room is still in construction, but obviously this is not good when watching a movie, plus it just freaks everyone out I the house…

Thank you
Jerry


----------



## spiwrx

Could be a few different things but the "IA" is meant to work with Home Works. Have you tried factory default procedure? I would try that first. This should remove any of the residual programing from the original owner. Other than that there could be a microscopic chance of some stray IR signal.

If the factory default doesn't work I'm and there are no other integration's (straight installation, no system wired or otherwise). I would assume it to be defective, I've just never hear of that symptom. When they fail you usually lose a zone or the hole thing. I guess you could also have a bad or worn button but I doubt it.


----------



## Horta

Paul

Thank you, what a simple idea...I have NOT tried to do a factory reset. 

Let me research online how to do that? Unless you happen to know?

Thank you.


----------



## spiwrx

Horta said:


> Paul
> 
> Thank you, what a simple idea...I have NOT tried to do a factory reset.
> 
> Let me research online how to do that? Unless you happen to know?
> 
> Thank you.


Because it is a system device (HW) I assume there is a sort of reset procedure. But either way its a legacy device (old) and hard to find documentation on. Lutron is not good(quick) over email support, you probably best to call them. 

If it is consistent with the Radio Ra version these are the reset instructions:


(On the keypad section) Press and hold the 1st, 3rd and 5th buttons in the right most column until the corresponding LEDs begin to flash (approximately 3 seconds / _~~~LEDs will flash for only 3 seconds.~~~)_.
While the 1st, 3rd, and 5th LED are flashing, press and hold the 2nd and 4th buttons in the right most column until all the LEDs flash.
All LEDs will turn OFF, indicating that the Master Control has been returned to Default Factory Settings.
I didn't see it on the photo but some models had an on/off button under the cover you would just press and hold for about 6 seconds.


----------



## RockDawg

What is the purpose of doing 18/2 to RJ45 breakout to cat 6 and then back again? Why not just run 18/2 all the way? I am getting ready to install my Grafik Eye and I was thinking about connecting a wire to the IR port on the rear panel. What do you connect the wire to? An IR receiver?


----------



## hd0823

I still haven't hooked it up but yeah from what others have told me you cut into one if the ir blasters of the harmony hub and hook the 18/2 up

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


----------



## RockDawg

But why the need for the breakout box and stuff? Why cant you just cut the end off an IR extender and wire that into the GE? 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## spiwrx

RockDawg said:


> But why the need for the breakout box and stuff? Why cant you just cut the end off an IR extender and wire that into the GE?
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


If you have an older 3000 series (31xx or 35xx) then it's not this easy....

However, 

If you are on the QS series Grafik Eye there is simply a wired connection for IR on the rear connections by set screw terminals. Simply cut the actual IR blaster of the cable from your IR distribution and wire it to the Grafik Eye. (Orange Connector). 
Googled this image from someone else:


----------



## RockDawg

Thanks for that! I do have the QS version and it is exactly like your picture. 

I need to run the wire about 25 feet and it doesn't look like the cable on the emitter is the long. Could I just buy a long 3.5mm cable and cut off one end and connect it to the GE and plug the other end into the Harmony hub? 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


----------



## TMcG

RockDawg said:


> I need to run the wire about 25 feet and it doesn't look like the cable on the emitter is the long. Could I just buy a long 3.5mm cable and cut off one end and connect it to the GE and plug the other end into the Harmony hub?


Go to Home Depot and get ultra-cheap 18/2 solid thermostat wire. It's UL rated and can dwell inside the back of a high voltage box per code. You could also use just two conductors of a standard Cat5 cable.

You do not have to clip or artificially extend an emitter. That's just a waste of an emitter.


----------



## markst

First post on this board, but the information but the information on this board has answered so many of my questions as I've been building out my house... except this one 

I have an old Grafik Eye backbox in my (brick) wall. I want to eventually put in a new unit to control my Lights, however for this probably won't be for a year or so. In the meantime I'd like to cover it up and paint over it.

Has anyone ever seen a blanking plate for a Grafik Eye backbox? I've looked all over and not been very successful in finding anything.

Thanks.


----------



## Tedd

Have a picture of this backbox? Does it contain wiring still?


----------



## spiwrx

markst said:


> First post on this board, but the information but the information on this board has answered so many of my questions as I've been building out my house... except this one
> 
> I have an old Grafik Eye backbox in my (brick) wall. I want to eventually put in a new unit to control my Lights, however for this probably won't be for a year or so. In the meantime I'd like to cover it up and paint over it.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a blanking plate for a Grafik Eye backbox? I've looked all over and not been very successful in finding anything.
> 
> Thanks.


This should just require a regular 4-gang blank wall plate. I would imagine most home centers to stock this but you can order online from a number of sites... 

Also, if you haven't supplied the box already we recommend the deep (3-12") Masonry Box.


----------



## markst

Tedd said:


> Have a picture of this backbox? Does it contain wiring still?


I am travelling at the moment so can't take a picture unfortunately. However it does still have wiring going into it(although they are not currently live).


----------



## matthew_eeph

*LED dimming direct or via which module?*

I have a Grafik Eye 2404 in my home theater, and I'm remodeling the kitchen and thinking of putting a 3104 or 3106 in there... but I'm also converting over to Halo H4 LED downlights everywhere.

Can the Grafik Eye 3000 control these directly, or do I need the ELV power module, or the Phase-Adaptive power module? Lutron documentation is super vague as to whether the GRX-ELV even exists any more, or if the ELV-1000 is the right one, or if the PAPM has replaced everything?


----------



## spiwrx

matthew_eeph said:


> I have a Grafik Eye 2404 in my home theater, and I'm remodeling the kitchen and thinking of putting a 3104 or 3106 in there... but I'm also converting over to Halo H4 LED downlights everywhere.
> 
> Can the Grafik Eye 3000 control these directly, or do I need the ELV power module, or the Phase-Adaptive power module? Lutron documentation is super vague as to whether the GRX-ELV even exists any more, or if the ELV-1000 is the right one, or if the PAPM has replaced everything?


Matthew, the Grafik Eye (GE) is fairly tolerant of the LED but Halo often require ELV which means a PAPM. Specifically the H4 dimming Spec's say C-L type dimmer is best but we see in the field that although it may dim fine some of these dimmers make the LED buzz or hum requiring and ELV dimmer to get rid of that. Additionally if you have a zone with 1 or 2 lights only a PAPM may be required. 

The current model of the Grafik Eye is the QS version (QSGRJ) which is RR2 compatible _(3100 series is discontinued for years already, 3500 is still available)_. Depending on what you want to look at on the wall, and assuming you only have 4 zones, I would recommend a Radio Ra 2 (RR2) Hybrid Keypad and 3x RRD-6NA(ELV) dimmers instead. They would better handle the LED's directly without the need and cost of 4x PAPM. You may still need one with the keypad, depending on the actual load and LED module. Because of the Halo dimming inconsistencies I might discourage the Halo H4 and Recommend something from DMF (DRD2) or other that plays better with RR2 and GE(QS). Also from DMF dimming guide the DRD2 should be directly compatible with the QS version of the GE. Both are good brands though, I don't want to say the Halo is bad but if you go with it please plan on using the PAPM for best results.


----------



## Snackers

I was following the suggestions for wiring into the back IR receiver port and after a bit of trial and error got my GE QS working with Harmony hub. 

I am now trying to find IR codes and whilst I have located codes for controlling scenes I am trying to find codes to control individual zones (ideally as an on / off toggle). The goal is to have 6 buttons programmed that turn each zone on or off independently of the others. Any idea if this is even possible?

From what I can currently find I have codes that turn on a scene (but not off) so could programme a bunch of scenes, but then I would need 12 buttons to cover all 6 zones, which feels a bit clunky.

Any thoughts?

Many thanks


----------



## spiwrx

Snackers said:


> I was following the suggestions for wiring into the back IR receiver port and after a bit of trial and error got my GE QS working with Harmony hub.
> 
> I am now trying to find IR codes and whilst I have located codes for controlling scenes I am trying to find codes to control individual zones (ideally as an on / off toggle). The goal is to have 6 buttons programmed that turn each zone on or off independently of the others. Any idea if this is even possible?
> 
> From what I can currently find I have codes that turn on a scene (but not off) so could programme a bunch of scenes, but then I would need 12 buttons to cover all 6 zones, which feels a bit clunky.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Many thanks


I thought there was a way, but Lutron support(chat) just said no. If you were using in a Radio Ra 2 (RR2) System you can program the buttons to toggle but then it really treats the buttons like a system keypad in RR2. If you wrap your head around the Scene programming there is usually a way to make it work as it is intended. I like to tell people to think of the buttons more as uses for the rooms or activities in that space rather then intuitively using them as switches. Example in a theater you are going dim or shut the main lights, maybe have some walkway lights, perhaps dim some sconces etc.. So now you have a Movie Scene. You probably want an All On scene for cleaning and setup and maybe you use the room for entertaining, etc... All the buttons then take the room to the light levels associated with that activity. Going from button to button invoke the more recent scene with the bottom button being an Off scene. In reality, if you figure it out you probably only need a few scene if dialed in properly & depending on what you are trying to do in that area... 

So if you do want to try you can program multiple scenes as you suggested and I think you can do as many as 16 scenes. 

If you want to drop another few hundred dollars all that is required is a Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater and you can then program them however you want and expand on it throughout your home.


----------



## Snackers

spiwrx said:


> I thought there was a way, but Lutron support(chat) just said no. If you were using in a Radio Ra 2 (RR2) System you can program the buttons to toggle but then it really treats the buttons like a system keypad in RR2. If you wrap your head around the Scene programming there is usually a way to make it work as it is intended. I like to tell people to think of the buttons more as uses for the rooms or activities in that space rather then intuitively using them as switches. Example in a theater you are going dim or shut the main lights, maybe have some walkway lights, perhaps dim some sconces etc.. So now you have a Movie Scene. You probably want an All On scene for cleaning and setup and maybe you use the room for entertaining, etc... All the buttons then take the room to the light levels associated with that activity. Going from button to button invoke the more recent scene with the bottom button being an Off scene. In reality, if you figure it out you probably only need a few scene if dialed in properly & depending on what you are trying to do in that area...
> 
> So if you do want to try you can program multiple scenes as you suggested and I think you can do as many as 16 scenes.
> 
> If you want to drop another few hundred dollars all that is required is a Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater and you can then program them however you want and expand on it throughout your home.


Cheers Paul, good to know. I will keep experimenting and take a look at the Radio RA 2.


----------



## Cain

*3106 update*

Hi gang,

I have a 3106 Lutron Graphic eye, in my theater. It was installed around 2001. 

Unfortunately it is in a spot where IR flashers don't reach well, and I'd like something that works better. Either Radio signals or wire - I ran conduit behind the Graphic eye, in case I ever wanted to run some type of control wire over there. 

What are suggestions for something to replace my old 3106, with either radio control, Ethernet, or an IR wire perhaps?? 

I'd like something with minimal fuss and muss to replace my 3106, preferably Lutron. Something perhaps I could replace, or a local not HT type electrician could replace. 

I'm also looking at that Harmony Universal remote that has both the iPhone app and a separate remote, I think it is the Ultimate. I've used UR for years and programming them is a PITA. 

Many thanks!!


----------



## spiwrx

Cain said:


> Hi gang,
> 
> I have a 3106 Lutron Graphic eye, in my theater. It was installed around 2001.
> 
> Unfortunately it is in a spot where IR flashers don't reach well, and I'd like something that works better. Either Radio signals or wire - I ran conduit behind the Graphic eye, in case I ever wanted to run some type of control wire over there.
> 
> What are suggestions for something to replace my old 3106, with either radio control, Ethernet, or an IR wire perhaps??
> 
> I'd like something with minimal fuss and muss to replace my 3106, preferably Lutron. Something perhaps I could replace, or a local not HT type electrician could replace.
> 
> I'm also looking at that Harmony Universal remote that has both the iPhone app and a separate remote, I think it is the Ultimate. I've used UR for years and programming them is a PITA.
> 
> Many thanks!!


The old 3106 can only take an IR "Bugeye"(blaster) on the face. So if it's in an equipment room this may be OK. Your other options were wired keypad with IR receiver or they had a ceiling mount GRX-IRI, (IR receiver that wire into the MUX link) 

If you upgrade to the newer QS version (QSGRJ-6P) it has a wired IR on the rear, still has a keypad option, or if you incorporate it into their Radio Ra 2 (RR2) family you can potentially do APP/Ethernet control. RR2 will require at least the RR2 main repeater. 

I think the most painless and universal way to integrate is IR depending on your abilities and equipment.


----------



## Cain

spiwrx said:


> The old 3106 can only take an IR "Bugeye"(blaster) on the face. So if it's in an equipment room this may be OK. Your other options were wired keypad with IR receiver or they had a ceiling mount GRX-IRI, (IR receiver that wire into the MUX link)
> 
> If you upgrade to the newer QS version (QSGRJ-6P) it has a wired IR on the rear, still has a keypad option, or if you incorporate it into their Radio Ra 2 (RR2) family you can potentially do APP/Ethernet control. RR2 will require at least the RR2 main repeater.
> 
> I think the most painless and universal way to integrate is IR depending on your abilities and equipment.


Thank you Paul for the reply.

I think I like options to utilize my existing GraphicEye. Can you explain these two options a little more for me please?? I googled them, but I'm not sure I understands them completely, and how they interact with my Graphiceye:
_
*"Your other options were wired keypad with IR receiver or they had a ceiling mount GRX-IRI, (IR receiver that wire into the MUX link) "*_


----------



## Tedd

People have opened up the 31xx series controller and installed an internal ir blaster right over the internal ir receiver.


----------



## spiwrx

Cain said:


> Thank you Paul for the reply.
> 
> I think I like options to utilize my existing GraphicEye. Can you explain these two options a little more for me please?? I googled them, but I'm not sure I understands them completely, and how they interact with my Graphiceye:
> _
> *"Your other options were wired keypad with IR receiver or they had a ceiling mount GRX-IRI, (IR receiver that wire into the MUX link) "*_





Tedd said:


> People have opened up the 31xx series controller and installed an internal ir blaster right over the internal ir receiver.


Keep in mind you're asking to expand on product that is basically discontinued for a few years now, so obtaining some of these parts my be difficult or try eBay or ??? 

All they do is extend the IR receiving to a new device or location. So you can use your exiting IR distribution to send IR signals (codes) to the GE to activate different scenes. So whether you use 3rd party IR distribution and place a bugeye on or in your GE, or want to use one of the Lutron IR receivers to do it directly, these are your options. From your Lutron compatible remote you need to assign the correct scene to you button(s) or Marcos on your remote or control application. If you cannot find these code but have a "learning"remote you'll need one of Lutron's remotes to copy it from manually. However if you are using reputable stuff you should be able to find these codes online or part of the remote or application already. 

You basically had these options when integrating IR to 3000 series Grafik Eye:



Directly place IR bugeye onto the face _~~~ self explanatory~~~_
Hack your GE and place bugeye insid_e ~~~ for IR Blasters just need to aim in the general direction of the receiving diode (photo transistor?) ~~~_
Use GRX-IRI or GRX-CIR (click on those part numbers for installation instructions) if you can get you hands on one. These connect via 4wire MUX link connector on the Rear of the GE. The IRI just mounts anywhere in a single electrical box and basically gives you a spot to place an IR bugeye, the CIR is a circular ceiling mount unit that was cut into the ceiling or cabinet as a target and hardwired as well onto the same MUX link. Both of them only connect via the Grafik Eye 4 conductor wire. 








Alternately they made a seeTouch wired keypad (also mux link) that had an IR receiving window in place of one of the buttons. Still available as the SG-4SIRI


----------



## Cain

Thank you!


----------



## Tedd

Spirwx, I wasn't suggesting any Lutron gear be added, just a standard ir emitter be added inside the GE's case. This used to be fairly commonplace on the 
AVS Forum years ago, and you'd never know any modification was ever made, if it was done right.


----------



## Snackers

Hi again

So I have been trying to utilise the back panel IR connectors on my GE QS in order that I can control my lights via my Harmony hub. Results have been mixed, but I think I have found a solution, however bearing in mind I am of limited expertise (I am being quite generous to myself) on wiring I am curious to see if people recoil in horror at my "fix".

At present I have put a 2.5mm spliter on the back of the blaster 2 port on the harmony hub so I can run another wire to the GE whilst maintaining the existing IR blaster which is used elsewhere. I noticed that in having two devices running off the same output the voltage on my wire to the QS when a command was triggered was significantly lower (which I guess makes sense) and the QS would not respond. With just a single device the QS worked fine via my harmony remote. Being a logical (not necessarily clever) thinker I thought I could "boost" the voltage by introducing a battery across the circuit. Having cannibalised an old radio I have wired into the circuit two AAA batteries (see the diagram below). Running a test on this everything seemed to work, however I am curious / nervous that randomly sticking a battery into things might cause grief to the QS (or something else) even if it is only a couple of volts.

Am I a genius or idiot??


----------



## Snackers

Picture was rubbish so trying again (since I cannot edit my post...)


----------



## spiwrx

Tedd said:


> Spirwx, I wasn't suggesting any Lutron gear be added, just a standard ir emitter be added inside the GE's case. This used to be fairly commonplace on the
> AVS Forum years ago, and you'd never know any modification was ever made, if it was done right.


I agree it can and has been done commonly, just offering up all the options as some might not be as comfortable cracking the case on their GE. You can definitely do this without any other Lutron gear.


----------



## spiwrx

Snackers said:


> Picture was rubbish so trying again (since I cannot edit my post...)


From an obscure document for a semi-related product I'm _assuming_ the IR should not exceed 20vdc and 5ma

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/EC-DIR-WH.pdf


Or how about running it through a 3rd party IR repeater to possibly boost the signal. Just trying to figure out how to get that battery out of there... 









Not endorsing this, just suggesting to try something like this... Google "IR Repeater"
This one I found at https://www.pimfg.com/product-detail/TTA-1403 
But there are plenty of other options around the same price if you search...


----------



## atledreier

I've got an old GRX 3004, and I'm wondering if there's a way to make the initial fade in slower? As it is I haven't found a way to set the initial fade-in longer than 3 seconds, no matter what the fade time for the scene is set to. anything shorter than 3 seconds will be applied, but anything longer defaults to 3 seconds. My current workaround is to have a remote with a "double tap" action where I have one scene with almost no light at all, and then have the remote press the "proper" scene and thus getting a longer fade-in.


----------



## spiwrx

You could have it in the wrong "Save Mode" and that's why it's not accepting changes? I assume you have the manual but take a look at "Save Modes" (page 17 and confirm your setting, probably want the "Sd" mode)

From: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/032188a.pdf


Otherwise the Fade Time instructions are on Page 15

_3. Set the fade-in time for this scene (does not apply to shades). Press the FADE 5 or 6 button to make the fade-in time anything from 0–59 seconds or 1–60 minutes.
The M and S indicators under the FADE window show whether fade is “M”inutes or “S”econds. To set the fade in minutes, press the FADE 5 button to scroll through 1–59 seconds to 1 to 60
minutes, then M lights. Fade is now expressed in minutes. To get back to seconds, press the FADE 6 button until the window shows “S”econds.
4. Repeat steps 1 through 3 to set up each of the remaining scenes. 
To set a Fade-to-OFF time, press the OFF scene button, then set the seconds or minutes to fade to OFF from this scene._


----------



## atledreier

That same page also says that the time from OFF to any scene is hardcoded to 3 seconds for some reason, and I'm asking if there's a way to circumvent that, except by the remote "trick" I outlined in my previous post.


----------



## spiwrx

atledreier said:


> That same page also says that the time from OFF to any scene is hardcoded to 3 seconds for some reason, and I'm asking if there's a way to circumvent that, except by the remote "trick" I outlined in my previous post.


Not sure I get you, There is a "Fade On / Fade In" [3] (Off to Scene) and "Fade Off" [4] (Scene to Off) both are instructed on page 15 of that document. I think 3 seconds is the default but you should be able to adjust both.


----------



## atledreier

Yes, neither is the problem here. It's fade FROM OFF to any scene that is hardcoded to 3 seconds. I want my cinema lights to come on gradually when a screening ends, and the 3 second fade IN is a bit harsh after two hours in the dark. The scene's fade-in time only apply when going between scenes, not when going from OFF. It seems I'll just keep using my current workaround.


----------



## Horta

Team

I am looking for a single solution and wondering if anyone here has any suggestions. 

I would like a lighting controller that will dim six zones, but the zones are a mix, some bulbs (GU10 led lamps) and the other three zones will be RGB LED color changing strips. When I enter my theater a keypad on the wall with like 3 or 4 presets. But also, be able to control the lights with my URC MX-990 remote via RF to IR repeater. The main light controller is in the equipment room so not inside the theater.

I currently have an older Grafik Eye installed. Its an old GRX-IA-6. Its only currently controlling the three zones of bulbs. I have not bought any of the RGB Strips yet because I don’t know which controller and transformer to get that works with whatever Grafik eye I use. I have gotten mixed info that I can do what I want with my current controler, but then other people have told me I need a newer QS model Grafik eye with DMX controlers…but even then they are not sure sence they have no experience with RGB strips.

Yes I do understand that the Grafik eye nor my URC remote will be able to control the color mix of my RGB Strips. That I can change with an app on my cell phone. But it would be great is when someone comes into the theater, pushes on button and everything comes on to pre-set light levels. That’s the goal. One press.

Im open to any ideas that someone has installed, set-up, and works. 

Thank you all in advance


----------



## spiwrx

Horta said:


> Team
> 
> I am looking for a single solution and wondering if anyone here has any suggestions.
> 
> I would like a lighting controller that will dim six zones, but the zones are a mix, some bulbs (GU10 led lamps) and the other three zones will be RGB LED color changing strips. When I enter my theater a keypad on the wall with like 3 or 4 presets. But also, be able to control the lights with my URC MX-990 remote via RF to IR repeater. The main light controller is in the equipment room so not inside the theater.
> 
> I currently have an older Grafik Eye installed. Its an old GRX-IA-6. Its only currently controlling the three zones of bulbs. I have not bought any of the RGB Strips yet because I don’t know which controller and transformer to get that works with whatever Grafik eye I use. I have gotten mixed info that I can do what I want with my current controler, but then other people have told me I need a newer QS model Grafik eye with DMX controlers…but even then they are not sure sence they have no experience with RGB strips.
> 
> Yes I do understand that the Grafik eye nor my URC remote will be able to control the color mix of my RGB Strips. That I can change with an app on my cell phone. But it would be great is when someone comes into the theater, pushes on button and everything comes on to pre-set light levels. That’s the goal. One press.
> 
> Im open to any ideas that someone has installed, set-up, and works.
> 
> Thank you all in advance


First and foremost the newer Grafik Eye (GE) QS is more tolerant of LED lighting then most, but you still may need some ELV dimmers on some LED which means adding an interface to each GE zone that needs one. For this reason I would recommend the Radio Ra 2 (RR2) system instead. You'll spend a little more but open up the possibility to control your entire home, or even use Google Alexa/Echo or Apple Homekit / Siri Voice control. In RR2 you would just have individual dimmers in your equipment room and a keypad in the theater (and/or APP control). If one or all of your LED require ELV then you only need to change to the appropriate dimmer model. No additional modules or wiring. The RGB is a hang up depending on how you want to control it. If you just want to use your RGB controller and a RR2 Switch or switched GE zone you could set up a scene that would turn on your RGB controller and if yours has that function it will return to wherever it was last. Not all RGB controllers have a memory though, some wills always come on at a default to some color, fade or flash. 

The RGB w/ Grafik Eye is tricky but they (Lutron) make a DMX interface you could use with a newer Grafik Eye QS. Often this is too complicated for the average user. But it is possible and just takes a bit of time to set up. It would mean you need a DMX capable RGB controller though. The DMX function is probably the best way to handle it but you may lose your APP control unless you can find a DMX controller with app. Additionally it is only available when used with GE and GE DMX interface. Lutron has a free software to program this, but you may need to educate yourself on DMX (DMX512?). 

On a more simple use we have done a single zone out of the Grafik Eye to a Magnetic Driver for the RGB. Between the driver and RGB we have a triple stack switch to turn on/off each color manually, and dim as a regular zone. This would be if you seldom changed colors. You could substitute this function of the with 3 relays and automate that to some degree as well. This approach(relays) is more suitable to use Radio Ra 2 as the VCRX piece can be used as contact closure for the relays. Or the New QS grafik Eye is RR2 capable anyway.

If you want to maintain the features of your RGB controller like fades, you'll have to power through the Grafik Eye as a switched zone only. Additionally you will only be able to dim that through your RGB controller app. 

There are a couple companies doing some 3rd party stuff for this purpose also, but they are $$$
http://www.aionled.com
www.integratedledcontrols.com


----------



## mpjmeyer

I am still searching for the best light switch for my theater. Looking to have 4 zones consisting of stage lights, step lights, sconces and soffit lights. I've narrowed it to either the Grafik Eye with a remote or 4 black insteon switches and a remote. Which would you suggest? I know the Insteon setup would save me a fewbucks but not sure how bright the actual led's on the switch are. This is a concern because my theater enterence is between the stage and seats. I don't want bright, distracting led's my the screen


----------



## BradP

My Grafik Eye 3000 is just terrible at IR signal, it seems to really need something pointing RIGHT AT IT to work. Anyone else see similar things? I can't believe they haven't Z-Wave'd these things yet. I'd upgrade.

Anyway, I have a blaster on the same wall as the Eye but it's about 15 feet away, still can't seem to get the thing to talk to the GE. Anyone have any tips on getting an IR blaster from a Harmony to meet up with a GE on the wall?


----------



## spiwrx

BradP said:


> My Grafik Eye 3000 is just terrible at IR signal, it seems to really need something pointing RIGHT AT IT to work. Anyone else see similar things? I can't believe they haven't Z-Wave'd these things yet. I'd upgrade.
> 
> Anyway, I have a blaster *on the same wall* as the Eye but it's about 15 feet away, still can't seem to get the thing to talk to the GE. Anyone have any tips on getting an IR blaster from a Harmony to meet up with a GE on the wall?


IR is vaguely directional but if your blaster and eye are on the same wall how are they supposed to communicate? 

Lutron doesn't do Z-Wave and likely never will. They have their own RF control in there more current QS Grafik Eye that speaks with the Radio Ra 2 family of products. 
For older equipment you are stuck with IR, however if you read back through the thread you can see some tips for placing blasters in alternate areas. Likewise Lutron makes a couple different IR receivers and Keypads that wire to the GE and also act as an additional IR receiver. These each require their MUX link connection though. 

You should find some 3rd party equipment that can incorporate the IR and Z-Wave if you want to try and integrate them.


----------



## bombertodd

mpjmeyer said:


> I am still searching for the best light switch for my theater. Looking to have 4 zones consisting of stage lights, step lights, sconces and soffit lights. I've narrowed it to either the Grafik Eye with a remote or 4 black insteon switches and a remote. Which would you suggest? I know the Insteon setup would save me a fewbucks but not sure how bright the actual led's on the switch are. This is a concern because my theater enterence is between the stage and seats. I don't want bright, distracting led's my the screen



I have Insteon switches. They work great and I highly recommend them. I'm not sure if you can turn the lights off or not. If not I wouldn't recommend them in your location because I think they would be distracting.

EDIT:

I just saw this: ". The status LED brightness can be dimmed to the
point that it appears off. The Insteon Hub and other central controller software allow setting of this device
property."

I'll try to adjust mine and see how they look.


----------



## BradP

spiwrx said:


> IR is vaguely directional but if your blaster and eye are on the same wall how are they supposed to communicate?
> 
> Lutron doesn't do Z-Wave and likely never will. They have their own RF control in there more current QS Grafik Eye that speaks with the Radio Ra 2 family of products.
> For older equipment you are stuck with IR, however if you read back through the thread you can see some tips for placing blasters in alternate areas. Likewise Lutron makes a couple different IR receivers and Keypads that wire to the GE and also act as an additional IR receiver. These each require their MUX link connection though.
> 
> You should find some 3rd party equipment that can incorporate the IR and Z-Wave if you want to try and integrate them.


I have a Harmony hub and I believe the Elite also does RF so probably moving to an RF unit would work, but that looks pricey. I may just end up having to lose my beautiful Grafik Eye and going with something lower tech like 4 z-wave switches which can also be controlled via voice (amazon echo in the room) or the Elite which links up to smartthings. I was able to get a blaster to talk to the projector's IR but the Grafik Eye really seems to need direct line of sight with the emitter (even my Elite needs to basically point RIGHT at it to get it to fire). Way it goes I guess!

I'll look back for some of the IR blaster recommendations, thanks.


----------



## killswitch1968

I am finishing up the planning stages on my theater. I already have Lutron on my main floor for 'scenes' in the family room, but it makes a lot more sense in a theater room. My 'zones' are:

Wall Scones
Riser Rope Lighting
Ceiling Rope Lighting
Front Pot lights
Back Pot lights

But in the furture I am considering motorized drapes, I understand the Grafik eye is capable of this? How do I future proof my wiring now to if needed it would be easy to add this in?


----------



## mtbdudex

bombertodd said:


> I have Insteon switches. They work great and I highly recommend them. I'm not sure if you can turn the lights off or not. If not I wouldn't recommend them in your location because I think they would be distracting.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this: ". The status LED brightness can be dimmed to the
> 
> point that it appears off. The Insteon Hub and other central controller software allow setting of this device
> 
> property."
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try to adjust mine and see how they look.




I'm interested in your feedback on dimming the LED lights .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bombertodd

mtbdudex said:


> I'm interested in your feedback on dimming the LED lights .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Totally forgot about this. I will try this weekend.


----------



## bombertodd

mtbdudex said:


> I'm interested in your feedback on dimming the LED lights .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Played with my Insteon 6 button keypad. You can dim all the way to off. Works great.


----------



## spiwrx

killswitch1968 said:


> ...I am considering motorized drapes, I understand the Grafik eye is capable of this? How do I future proof my wiring now to if needed it would be easy to add this in?


Depends a lot on what brand shade you are going with and what Grafik Eye (GE) you have. If you have a more recent Lutron GE "QS"_(QSGRJ.....)_ it can speak wirelessly to the Lutron's "QS" series of shades. Some people gawk at the price, but they do have some affordable options in their Triathlon / essentials collections. The shades can be battery or powered. For powered shades you need 2 conductor power only. I have several jobs on Batteries and I think we're seeing more than 3 years on some of the original battery powered shades which are less efficient than the ones they produce today. 

Some other shades work on 3-wire, 4-wire. Some of Lutrons wired shades use a 7 conductor. So I would assume that might be worst case or "Future Proof", but as with everything else A/V and future proof wiring the best thing you can do is put in a conduit and pull what ever you need. 

If you already have a GE QS you have to get a replacement Cover to get the shade control buttons, OR if it's part of a Radio Ra 2 (RR2) system you can re-program any of the GE's Scene buttons for Shades, as well as any other RR2 Keypad. Or simply use one of their Battery Powered PICO Controls. If you have an existing GE QS and not part of a RR2 system, I might rather spend the money on the RR2 main repeater instead of a replacement cover. Because you can do more and extend the RR2 system to the rest of the home in the future. 

If you have specifics you would like to go over please email me directly and, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. paul(at)hankselectric(dot) net


----------



## killswitch1968

spiwrx said:


> Depends a lot on what brand shade you are going with and what Grafik Eye (GE) you have. If you have a more recent Lutron GE "QS"_(QSGRJ.....)_ it can speak wirelessly to the Lutron's "QS" series of shades. Some people gawk at the price, but they do have some affordable options in their Triathlon / essentials collections. The shades can be battery or powered. For powered shades you need 2 conductor power only. I have several jobs on Batteries and I think we're seeing more than 3 years on some of the original battery powered shades which are less efficient than the ones they produce today.
> 
> Some other shades work on 3-wire, 4-wire. Some of Lutrons wired shades use a 7 conductor. So I would assume that might be worst case or "Future Proof", but as with everything else A/V and future proof wiring the best thing you can do is put in a conduit and pull what ever you need.
> 
> If you already have a GE QS you have to get a replacement Cover to get the shade control buttons, OR if it's part of a Radio Ra 2 (RR2) system you can re-program any of the GE's Scene buttons for Shades, as well as any other RR2 Keypad. Or simply use one of their Battery Powered PICO Controls. If you have an existing GE QS and not part of a RR2 system, I might rather spend the money on the RR2 main repeater instead of a replacement cover. Because you can do more and extend the RR2 system to the rest of the home in the future.
> 
> If you have specifics you would like to go over please email me directly and, I'd be happy to discuss it with you. paul(at)hankselectric(dot) net


Thanks Paul that's all helpful. I guess it's not as straightforward as wiring in a Cat5e and a 14AWG! I think conduit makes the sense at this time. I have Lutron Shades on my main floor. Some are wired, some are on batteries, but I find the battery ones to be more finicky and slower to open and close. Appreciate the help.


----------



## starcat

Hi guys, 

What are the limitations of using the Lutron RS-232 interface with the GRX-3106? 
Can all 16 scenes be set and several units daisy chained and controlled from a single RS-232 interface on the bus? 

Thanks very much!


----------



## MarkStega

starcat said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What are the limitations of using the Lutron RS-232 interface with the GRX-3106?
> Can all 16 scenes be set and several units daisy chained and controlled from a single RS-232 interface on the bus?
> 
> Thanks very much!


Our Charmed Quark Controller supports up to 8 daisy chained units and 16 scenes through a single RS-232 interface


----------



## starcat

MarkStega said:


> Our Charmed Quark Controller supports up to 8 daisy chained units and 16 scenes through a single RS-232 interface


Can the daisy chained units also be 3106 or do I need to use 3506? 
Do I get real time feedback using 3106? 
Can I +/- a specific load/channel on a 3106 directly (and without selecting a scene)?

Thanks!


----------



## MarkStega

starcat said:


> Can the daisy chained units also be 3106 or do I need to use 3506?


 3106 is fine (3506 adds capability to be programmed from PC)



starcat said:


> Do I get real time feedback using 3106?


Yes



starcat said:


> Can I +/- a specific load/channel on a 3106 directly (and without selecting a scene)?


No, scenes + raise/lower are supported


For the definitive guide follow this link


----------



## starcat

MarkStega said:


> No, scenes + raise/lower are supported


Thanks. I have read somewhere that a specific load/channel can be raised/lowered on the 3506 without touching the scene.

On the 3106 probably only scenes can be lowered/raised but not individual channels, right?


----------



## MarkStega

starcat said:


> Thanks. I have read somewhere that a specific load/channel can be raised/lowered on the 3506 without touching the scene.
> 
> On the 3106 probably only scenes can be lowered/raised but not individual channels, right?


I have no direct experience with the 3506, the guide in the link above will give you a definitive answer; To the best of my knowledge the raise/lower applies to the currently state.


----------



## spiwrx

starcat said:


> Thanks. I have read somewhere that a specific load/channel can be raised/lowered on the 3506 without touching the scene.
> 
> On the 3106 probably only scenes can be lowered/raised but not individual channels, right?



First of all, the 3500 is still supported, but both are more or less obsolete and replaced years ago by Grafik QS. If this is a new project, I highly recommend Grafik QS. But for the purpose of the question, most of this info is relevant to all models. 



Now, I have never have done this myself, but I think you will find the answer here:


It looks like on any 3000 (3100 or 3500) series you can select a scene and request scene status, but for raise lower it appears you have to state all the zones to raise / lower, basically redefine the scene in the command. But remember if you adjust a zone (or a scene for that matter) you are taking the unit away from whatever scene it was on and that scene status is no longer valid. You can also request Zone Intensities, depending on what you may want to do or info you want to pull. What is not entirely clear to me is, is this "raise zone" command a simple incremental press of the raise button or if you have to use it on conjunction with zone raise stop. 



One of the few things 3500 specific was "Set Control Unit Intensities". This is basically another way to do a scene. There are other implications but for most common scenarios a scene will do the same things. 


*Zone Lower Example:*
Command Name: D
Description: Zone lower ramps down specific zones on a single GRAFIK Eye Control Unit.
Syntax: D[Control Unit][zones]
Allowed Values: Control Unit 1-8 (Control Units on link) / 0-8 Zones to ramp down
Examples:
5 ramp down all zones on Control Unit 5
3124 ramp down zones 1, 2, and 4 on Control Unit 3
Additional Information
This command will not affect shade zones.


----------



## Rod1971

Does anyone know where I can purchase Lutron Green Cable or GRX-CBL-346s by the foot?
Thanks,
Rod


----------



## nieldm

Rod1971 said:


> Does anyone know where I can purchase Lutron Green Cable or GRX-CBL-346s by the foot?
> Thanks,
> Rod


Try here : https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/...5ca7ed-6734-4e90-81a3-a98b00a48946?bidplaced=


----------



## trpltongue

So I’ve got an old 3000 series graphic eye from circa 2010 in my theater. 

I’m looking to add an external “switch” of some sort to turn on the lights from outside my room. 

Anybody know of a way to do this wirelessly? I’ve got an infrared repeater system setup to control the unit now and could somehow tap into that. 

I can add the hard wired switch but it would involve tearing out Sheetrock 

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

trpltongue said:


> So I’ve got an old 3000 series graphic eye from circa 2010 in my theater.
> 
> I’m looking to add an external “switch” of some sort to turn on the lights from outside my room.
> 
> Anybody know of a way to do this wirelessly? I’ve got an infrared repeater system setup to control the unit now and could somehow tap into that.
> 
> I can add the hard wired switch but it would involve tearing out Sheetrock
> 
> Thanks!


There is no simple solution. If you had a current QS Grafik Eye, this is a no-brainer, they have a PICO control for this. Tapping into your IR system may be an option, but you could also add a 3rd party wirelessly controlled relay to use your SSA terminal switched to hot (_replacing the NTGRX-1S in the image below_). If I remember right this can trigger your first scene. You may have to re-program your scenes to make your first scene do what you want with the relay, but this is another way to do it. 


See this document, page 72 (page 7 pdf)
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/66-86_Grafik_Eye_Window_Treatments.pdf


----------



## trpltongue

That’s an interesting idea to add a relay. I’ll have to see if I can find something that can fit. It’s really tight in the box 🙂


----------



## spiwrx

trpltongue said:


> That’s an interesting idea to add a relay. I’ll have to see if I can find something that can fit. It’s really tight in the box 🙂


One of the simplest ways to apply this would to add a wireless switch and use the relay for isolation together in a separate box. Then just 2 wires over to the GE 3000. You could potentially cut in a deep single box and fit this in together. I'm thinking a Lutron Caseta or RR2 switch and a PICO as the remote control for the other room. The downside is adding a switch next to your GE or at least to an adjacent location you can get a couple wire to & from. Finding a tiny relay is no problem, I have them here in stock. Or bite the bullet and upgrade you GE to a QS version and you can then talk directly to a PICO rf control. Or even add it into a small RR2 system and have APP, ETHERNET & TELNET based control possibilities.


----------



## trpltongue

I actually have a 4-gang box adjacent to the grafik eye, albeit in a different stud bay. 

I already have the grafik eye installed in a deep masonry box so it’ll take some doing to drill through the stud and knock out an access, but I’m sure I can do it. 

I would upgrade the Grafik Eye, but ouch, they are expensive. I got mine on sale for $350 back in 2010 

I’ll send you a PM for a couple of questions on your suggestion. Not sure I’m completely following the switch + relay bit


----------



## trpltongue

Does anyone know where I can find an accessory switch for a GRX-3104 model (non-QS)? I’d prefer the single push button, but could also do a 2 button.

I looked into options to control via relay, but I need a momentary switch to activate the SSA, and any of the Lutron smart switches are on/off, not momentary.


----------



## spiwrx

trpltongue said:


> Does anyone know where I can find an accessory switch for a GRX-3104 model (non-QS)? I’d prefer the single push button, but could also do a 2 button.
> 
> I looked into options to control via relay, but I need a momentary switch to activate the SSA, and any of the Lutron smart switches are on/off, not momentary.


It's been to long ago that we supported these, but I thought it could work on a regular toggle switch, but you do have some momentary options still


Here are a couple options:
http://hankselectric.supply/Momentary-Decorator-Switch_p_269.html


http://hankselectric.supply/Touchplate-Genesis-Series-Wall-Switch_p_237.html


----------



## trpltongue

I probably need to make a call to lutron, but in reading the literature it sounded like the single switch is a momentary push button. 

I’m going to check out those links as well. 

Thanks!


----------



## MarkStega

trpltongue said:


> Does anyone know where I can find an accessory switch for a GRX-3104 model (non-QS)? I’d prefer the single push button, but could also do a 2 button.
> 
> I looked into options to control via relay, but I need a momentary switch to activate the SSA, and any of the Lutron smart switches are on/off, not momentary.



I have an old 3106 that I wanted to add a remote switch outside of the room. I got onto ebay and found a 2 scene egrx lutron switch for a very reasonable price.


----------



## trpltongue

I’ve been looking for 2 scene switches on eBay but haven’t found anything remotely reasonably priced. 

I did get confirmation from Lutron tech support that the SSA line on the grx-3000 series is a momentary closure, so a regular switch won’t work. 

They recommended using a Maestro Accessory switch (MS-SA). It’s a push button momentary switch that is standard decora size.

I’m still trying to find some way to do a wireless momentary switch but not having any luck. I could rig up some convoluted system using an RF remote controlled relay and a momentary switch with some solder etc, but that’s just asking for trouble 

A simple RF controlled momentary relay that can handle 120v load would work, and I’ve found several, but they all have ugly remotes that don’t look anything like a wall switch.


----------



## spiwrx

trpltongue said:


> I’ve been looking for 2 scene switches on eBay but haven’t found anything remotely reasonably priced.
> 
> I did get confirmation from Lutron tech support that the SSA line on the grx-3000 series is a momentary closure, so a regular switch won’t work.
> 
> They recommended using a Maestro Accessory switch (MS-SA). It’s a push button momentary switch that is standard decora size.
> 
> I’m still trying to find some way to do a wireless momentary switch but not having any luck. I could rig up some convoluted system using an RF remote controlled relay and a momentary switch with some solder etc, but that’s just asking for trouble
> 
> A simple RF controlled momentary relay that can handle 120v load would work, and I’ve found several, but they all have ugly remotes that don’t look anything like a wall switch.


You can do this easily with RR2 but for what it would cost you might as well just update your Grafik Eye, unless the RR2 was appealing to you, & then be able to expand HA system throughout your home.


----------



## spiwrx

FYI, The Lutron just announced the Grafik Eye 3500 series will be discontinued later this year (June 1st). This was the only replacement up to now for any of the 3000 series. 

It still may be available as replacement through obsolete parts, but that will make it even more expensive and could take several weeks or months to have them build one. 

If you are considering or putting off a replacement the current QS version Grafik Eye is your best bet, but if you have a large system with multiple keypads you would have to update it all, in this case you shouldn't wait much longer.


----------



## trpltongue

In case anyone is interested,

I did finally have a chance to add a slave switch to the system. Rather than try to do a wireless switch outside of the room, I instead added a wall switch inside the room. This way when people enter the room they flip on a light switch as per normal and the Lutron kicks in and launches scene 1. 

I used this tutorial to make my own momentary switch from a standard decora wall switch:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QJgYJfNKRI

Saved myself $30 🙂. 

I already had a second wall box above the Lutron unit, so I simply put the new momentary switch in that box. Connected the live wire to one side of the switch and connected the other side to the SSA of the Lutron and it worked perfectly. 

Now the momentary switch turns on scene 1 and turns off the system! Much easier than trying to fumble for a tiny button in the dark 🙂


----------



## billsmitha

I have a large Grafik Eye 6000 system that I recently inherited in an private club I acquired, and need a little help. I purchased an old windows 95 laptop to attempt to update the lighting schedule. Does anyone know how I can download the existing data file from the controller?


----------



## spiwrx

billsmitha said:


> I have a large Grafik Eye 6000 system that I recently inherited in an private club I acquired, and need a little help. I purchased an old windows 95 laptop to attempt to update the lighting schedule. Does anyone know how I can download the existing data file from the controller?


Sorry, I have no experience with that one. A lot of those older systems you could not do that with(extract or download). But again, I never used the 6000. In case you hadn't found it, here is all the Legacy documentation they have for it:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/LegacyProducts.aspx



Also, systems of that magnitude, Lutron may have a job file on record. I would contact them & recommend phone, they are 2-3 days by email.


----------



## billsmitha

Thank you, they think they have a file so hopefully that works out.


----------



## mtbdudex

IMO after a 14 year run .... it's "time" to remove this thread from a sticky, and relegate it to normal thread status.


----------



## bpratt2

14 years as a sticky... that's a long time, but it's been a very handy topic for us all in that time.


----------



## sor

Does anyone have tips on how to acquire a Grafik Eye QS and custom engraved face plate? I can find random models on eBay and I may eventually be able to find the specific model I need, but I'm not sure I'll be able to order the engraved faceplate without the Lutron order # that the Grafik Eye came from, seems the process is locked down to partners. Ideally I'd like to find a Lutron reseller that will just work with me to order parts. I fear the locals will want to come do installation and uncharge me.


----------



## spiwrx

sor said:


> Does anyone have tips on how to acquire a Grafik Eye QS and custom engraved face plate? I can find random models on eBay and I may eventually be able to find the specific model I need, but I'm not sure I'll be able to order the engraved faceplate without the Lutron order # that the Grafik Eye came from, seems the process is locked down to partners. Ideally I'd like to find a Lutron reseller that will just work with me to order parts. I fear the locals will want to come do installation and uncharge me.




There is nothing that should stop you from ordering an engraved cover. For the QS they are sold separately anyway. If you don't have someone local to help you let me know.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147

When I built my last theater 12 years ago, I used a Grafik Eye (3506, if I remember the model number correctly). 

Is Grafik Eye still a preferred solution - something like an 8 zone Wireless QS? Or has Grafik Eye been surpassed by other solutions? I'm at the lighting design phase of the project, so I can still wire for whatever solution I choose. I don't want to invest in Lutron again if there is something better these days.

Thanks!


----------



## BillW

Sands_at_Pier147 said:


> When I built my last theater 12 years ago, I used a Grafik Eye (3506, if I remember the model number correctly).
> 
> Is Grafik Eye still a preferred solution - something like an 8 zone Wireless QS? Or has Grafik Eye been surpassed by other solutions? I'm at the lighting design phase of the project, so I can still wire for whatever solution I choose. I don't want to invest in Lutron again if there is something better these days.
> 
> Thanks!


I would look at Lutron's Caseta system, for the price point it's amazing. If you are talking a whole home and want illuminated keypads then Ra2 is still a great solution at a higher price point.


----------



## sor

I went with a Grafik eye QS, just got it a few months back. I looked at all of the systems. 

The Caseta are good if you want to install a bunch of individual switches and cobble together scenes using a smart hub. There are a lot of alternatives in this space, Lutron’s is one of the few with HomeKit integration if you care about that.

The RA2 suite is another step up, pretty big suite of hardware controls, sensors, etc. The Grafik Eye QS is actually a part of the RadioRA2 suite and falls under “light controls”. You could possibly put together a nice (even whole home) system with seeTouch keypads instead. I found the RA2 overwhelming because most of the components want to use the Lutron gateway, wireless repeaters, or special wiring. Most of the keypads don’t drop in on their own but are designed to connect to a remote relay unit or a Graphik Eye.

In the end since the Graphik Eye is so capable, integrated into one piece of hardware, *and* a part of the RadioRA2 suite I decided I would just get one and then I would be able to expand with the Lutron Gateway and all of the other components later, if I wanted.


----------



## spiwrx

Sands_at_Pier147 said:


> When I built my last theater 12 years ago, I used a Grafik Eye (3506, if I remember the model number correctly).
> 
> Is Grafik Eye still a preferred solution - something like an 8 zone Wireless QS? Or has Grafik Eye been surpassed by other solutions? I'm at the lighting design phase of the project, so I can still wire for whatever solution I choose. I don't want to invest in Lutron again if there is something better these days.
> 
> Thanks!


The new Grafik Eye QS is the upgrade but still only 6zones. The 8 zone version is only for their ECO series ballasts and drivers (more for commercial use, for fluorescent and LED)
This still shares the same footprint and specs are at least as good as the GRX3106 and GRX3506. 

The Grafik QS is fairly tolerant of most LED, but if you have a minimum load or ELV requirement, the other solution like Caseta, Radio Ra Select, or Radio Ra 2 are worth considering. 
Grafik QS is Radio Ra 2 compatible. If you have other wired wall stations to your GRX You would need to replace those to upgrade as well. 

Caseta, Radio Ra Select, and Radio Ra 2are all APP capable as well as Grafik QS as part of a Radio Ra 2 system (Main Rpeater and Connect Bridge required)


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147

Thank you. This was helpful. I'll check out the Caseta, and it's good to know GrafikEye is still a contender.


----------



## AXLCMT

Can someone tell me what the difference is between IR DATA and IR COM?


I have a CAT5 Ethernet run to my Grafik Eye QS to control it via a Harmony Hub.
On the Harmony Hub end, I have this product (Ethernet to 3.5mm male, attached to a 3.5mm female to a 2.5mm male going into the Harmony Hub.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016VEFI00/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza


I want to cut open the 3.5mm male jack end of the product linked above ( I don't know how many wires are under the hood of the product linked above but I 

have posted a question on Amazon to the seller asked how many wires I will find underneath the 3.5mm male jack end of it)


*The question is, after I cut open the 3.5mm male jack of the adapter product, which wires should I connect to IR DATA and IR COM?*


The adapter manufacturer has shared on Amazon which wire is linked to which wire on the RJ45 block (they stated, and I quote "Our Cat5 adapters that come in our kit use lines 4,6 & 8"


Thanks in advance for anyone that can share any insight into this.


----------



## TMcG

AXLCMT said:


> Can someone tell me what the difference is between IR DATA and IR COM?
> 
> 
> I have a CAT5 Ethernet run to my Grafik Eye QS to control it via a Harmony Hub.
> On the Harmony Hub end, I have this product (Ethernet to 3.5mm male, attached to a 3.5mm female to a 2.5mm male going into the Harmony Hub.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016VEFI00/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza
> 
> 
> I want to cut open the 3.5mm male jack end of the product linked above ( I don't know how many wires are under the hood of the product linked above but I
> 
> have posted a question on Amazon to the seller asked how many wires I will find underneath the 3.5mm male jack end of it)
> 
> 
> *The question is, after I cut open the 3.5mm male jack of the adapter product, which wires should I connect to IR DATA and IR COM?*
> 
> 
> The adapter manufacturer has shared on Amazon which wire is linked to which wire on the RJ45 block (they stated, and I quote "Our Cat5 adapters that come in our kit use lines 4,6 & 8"
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance for anyone that can share any insight into this.


IR Data is the + terminal. This is also the wire with the writing on it. The IR COM is the negative and is the side of the emitter wire which does not have writing on it. Very simple connection.


----------



## sor

TMcG said:


> IR Data is the + terminal. This is also the wire with the writing on it. The IR COM is the negative and is the side of the emitter wire which does not have writing on it. Very simple connection.



COM as in “common” electronics jargon?


----------



## spiwrx

sor said:


> COM as in “common” electronics jargon?


Yes Com = Common or just C, might sometimes also refer to as Negative, Ground or Earth depending on the context, but to clarify it is not exclusively used for grounding, negative, or Earth they just get tossed into the same hat a lot. It just means it is in common in regards to what ever else is going on in that circuit. 

You can ring out which wire is which with a simple meter, as suggested above, Tip is usually +, in your case Data or Signal, and marked with some writing or stripe, the Sleeve is Ground or Common & usually unmarked wire


----------



## Bstears

Hi everyone, I just bought a house with a lutron GrafikEye system. However, I don't know how to identify which model it is. Any suggestions on identification? Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

Bstears said:


> Hi everyone, I just bought a house with a lutron GrafikEye system. However, I don't know how to identify which model it is. Any suggestions on identification? Thanks!


It's a little tough depending on the age. In the latter part of it's production there was a large button 3000 series, but basically if you have smaller slim black buttons (about 1/8" thick) it's likely a 3000 series if you have the larger button, about 3/8" It's a late model 3000 or newer QS. 

On the QS you can also open the bottom 1/2 to see the label. In the 3000 you have to remove the cover, but don't unless you need to. They are easy to break and you won't easily get a new one. 

What do you need to know? There are a lot of similarities. 
(any version could be all white or as shown as well as 6 other colors)
3000 series:
Only Top fold up, to see label you must remove cover. 
Apply moderate pressure down (vertically) and try and pull away from the bottom edge towards yourself. 
Or apply pressure upwards and tilt away from the top. 
When these were new you could just pull the cover off, but as the age the mounting points get brittle and will break easily. 









QS Version(Or late model 3000): (Buttons on left are only for systems w/ shades) 
Bottom 1/2 folds down
You can just pull this over off, and new ones are still available.


----------



## spiwrx

There are other 5000, 6000 series Grafik Eye, but these were mainly commercial use. However they look exactly the same from the cover as the 3000


----------



## Bstears

Does these pictures help? I'm trying to modernize it. The keypads look dated. Is there some kind of updated option? Anything that interfaces with a modern lutron hub? Or touch screens?


----------



## spiwrx

Wow, you have a 4000 series. This is likely connected to grafik panel or other specialized dimming modules and / or ballasts. Basically you're opening a can of worms. Because of the complexity of what you potentially have I suggest calling Lutron (not email, unless you want to wait 2-4 days for a partial answer). *1-844-LUTRON1 (588-7661)* This is considered a "Commercial System".

You maybe able to convert up to a newer QS based control but it will have a lot more to do with all that is connected to it and the specifics of those components. They may have your job information on file by address depending on the complexity.


----------



## jaysoffian

I posted this separately, but I think maybe I'll get better advice here.

I currently have a Lutron GRX-2404 powering incandescent lights in my HT. My existing lighting is:

1. Two recessed ceiling lights at the front of my theater as screen wash lights w/65w incandescent BR30 soft white (2700K).
2. Four recessed ceiling lights at the mid point and rear of my theater over each row of seating w/same bulbs as (1).
3. Four wall sconces with A19 60W bulbs.
4. A rope light on the edge of my seating riser.

I want to switch to LED lighting for at least zones 1-3 above, while retaining what I like about the Grafik Eye and my incandescent bulbs:


Multiple scenes (I'd like at least two besides full on/off).
IR control to switch scenes.
Dimmable to 1% on zones (2) and (3) above with zone (1) full-off and zone(4) around 50% (movie watching scene).
Soft white (2700K) color temperature, including when dimmed.
No buzzling/flickering.

The reason for switching is to get rid of the heat from the incandescents when they are on, as well as free up space in the acoustic tile ceiling to add insulation, so I also want to remove the ceiling cans and not just retrofit w/LED BR30s.

Are there any LEDs that will dim reliably to 1% on leading-edge dimmer like the GRX-2404? If not, what are my options for replacing it? My initial investigation indicates updating to a Grafik Eye QS (QSGRJ-4P), RadioRA2, or Caseta.

I'm not clear what components I'd need for RadioRA2, and I don't think Caseta really gives me what I need. I think w/Caseta I'd need 4 smart dimmers and a Pico Scene Remote, but that still doesn't give me IR control.


----------



## spiwrx

jaysoffian said:


> I posted this separately, but I think maybe I'll get better advice here.
> 
> I currently have a Lutron GRX-2404 powering incandescent lights in my HT. My existing lighting is:
> 
> 1. Two recessed ceiling lights at the front of my theater as screen wash lights w/65w incandescent BR30 soft white (2700K).
> 2. Four recessed ceiling lights at the mid point and rear of my theater over each row of seating w/same bulbs as (1).
> 3. Four wall sconces with A19 60W bulbs.
> 4. A rope light on the edge of my seating riser.
> 
> I want to switch to LED lighting for at least zones 1-3 above, while retaining what I like about the Grafik Eye and my incandescent bulbs:
> 
> 
> Multiple scenes (I'd like at least two besides full on/off).
> IR control to switch scenes.
> Dimmable to 1% on zones (2) and (3) above with zone (1) full-off and zone(4) around 50% (movie watching scene).
> Soft white (2700K) color temperature, including when dimmed.
> No buzzling/flickering.
> 
> The reason for switching is to get rid of the heat from the incandescents when they are on, as well as free up space in the acoustic tile ceiling to add insulation, so I also want to remove the ceiling cans and not just retrofit w/LED BR30s.
> 
> Are there any LEDs that will dim reliably to 1% on leading-edge dimmer like the GRX-2404? If not, what are my options for replacing it? My initial investigation indicates updating to a Grafik Eye QS (QSGRJ-4P), RadioRA2, or Caseta.
> 
> I'm not clear what components I'd need for RadioRA2, and I don't think Caseta really gives me what I need. I think w/Caseta I'd need 4 smart dimmers and a Pico Scene Remote, but that still doesn't give me IR control.



I assume you are asking because of the possible compatibility issues with your current GRX-2404.Most LED lamps today are now designed to work on TRIAC dimmers similar to your GE, however the GE has minimum load requirements the LED may not get to. I believe the older GE's were around 50watts, and 2 LED lights are not going to get you there. 4 may. 

You can get RR2 keypad w/ IR but not in a Hybrid version. Meaning you will have to add an IR keypad somewhere or expand to 5 gang (or combine 2 of your other zones).
So you have to find out how important that IR is to you. Your remote may be Lutron compatible without it if you get Radio Ra 2 up on your network. 

Radio Ra 3 is coming out next year, but currently no IR or Hybrid options. Likely will not see IR on RA3. 

Radio Ra 2 if IR is important to you, you will need 5 switch positions, or a separately mounted keypad w/ IR (only requires 120v power). 
1x RRD-W5BRLIR-xx
1x RRD-PRO-xx Dimmer for minimum load (front theater)
3x RRD-6ND-xx Dimmers for other (unless they have special dimming requirements)
1x Connect Bridge
1x Main Repeater
Ability to program it. 

If you can give up on your IR you can use Radio Ra Select or Caseta by adding a Pico for the Scene Controller. You will increase to 5 gang positions, but you can maintain your existing 4 gang box and just cover with a 5 gang plate or mount the Pico individually anywhere in range. 

Lastly, most LED won't go to 1%, you be lucky to find lamps the go lower than 15%. Your "Rope Light" if being replaced by low voltage LED tape, may get to 1% with a good driver. Lutron makes a nice 1% driver. 

In addition to 1%, 15%, etc... this doesn't mean what you might think it means. Please review this article that shows 15% is perceived as about 40% because dimming is not linear.


----------



## jaysoffian

spiwrx said:


> I assume you are asking because of the possible compatibility issues with your current GRX-2404.Most LED lamps today are now designed to work on TRIAC dimmers similar to your GE, however the GE has minimum load requirements the LED may not get to. I believe the older GE's were around 50watts, and 2 LED lights are not going to get you there. 4 may.
> 
> You can get RR2 keypad w/ IR but not in a Hybrid version. Meaning you will have to add an IR keypad somewhere or expand to 5 gang (or combine 2 of your other zones).
> So you have to find out how important that IR is to you. Your remote may be Lutron compatible without it if you get Radio Ra 2 up on your network.
> 
> Radio Ra 3 is coming out next year, but currently no IR or Hybrid options. Likely will not see IR on RA3.
> 
> Radio Ra 2 if IR is important to you, you will need 5 switch positions, or a separately mounted keypad w/ IR (only requires 120v power).
> 1x RRD-W5BRLIR-xx
> 1x RRD-PRO-xx Dimmer for minimum load (front theater)
> 3x RRD-6ND-xx Dimmers for other (unless they have special dimming requirements)
> 1x Connect Bridge
> 1x Main Repeater
> Ability to program it.
> 
> If you can give up on your IR you can use Radio Ra Select or Caseta by adding a Pico for the Scene Controller. You will increase to 5 gang positions, but you can maintain your existing 4 gang box and just cover with a 5 gang plate or mount the Pico individually anywhere in range.
> 
> Lastly, most LED won't go to 1%, you be lucky to find lamps the go lower than 15%. Your "Rope Light" if being replaced by low voltage LED tape, may get to 1% with a good driver. Lutron makes a nice 1% driver.
> 
> In addition to 1%, 15%, etc... this doesn't mean what you might think it means. Please review this article that shows 15% is perceived as about 40% because dimming is not linear.
> View attachment 3193493


Wow, thank you for this extensive reply. You really went above and beyond.

Programming is not an issue. I write code for a living.

The inability to dim LEDs down to a bare minimum may make this a non-starter though. I'm a little surprised that this is still an issue for LEDs. It seems that incandescent still have superior ergonomics. It's just too bad about the heat and energy use.

I guess most folks just turn their lights fully off or use a separate bias light.

If not for that, I could probably give up IR. It's a very nice to have, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to use a Pico for scene control.


----------



## spiwrx

jaysoffian said:


> Wow, thank you for this extensive reply. You really went above and beyond.
> 
> Programming is not an issue. I write code for a living.
> 
> The inability to dim LEDs down to a bare minimum may make this a non-starter though. I'm a little surprised that this is still an issue for LEDs. It seems that incandescent still have superior ergonomics. It's just too bad about the heat and energy use.
> 
> I guess most folks just turn their lights fully off or use a separate bias light.
> 
> If not for that, I could probably give up IR. It's a very nice to have, but it wouldn't be the end of the world to use a Pico for scene control.


I encourage you to try some lamps and see whats acceptable to you. You might find some 0 or 1% lamps, but I would rely on Lutron's testing as well as the lamps manufacturers.
You may want to try some of the better brands like Soraa, Green Creative or others.

Here you can see Lutron's compatibility search tool narrowed to Grafik Eye 3000 & R40 lamps. (3000 is very similar/same to the 2000) See also they haven't tested this since 2019 there could have been many lamp improvements in that time.











And as an example GreenCreative Dimmer compatibility for a more updated lamp.(not endorsing them, just an example)
Whats odd here is I would expect all of the Lutron XX-600-XX Dimmers to operate the same as well as all of the xx-153-xx but they don't. 
The GrafikEye you have should have comparable triac dimming to the 600's. 
My next question is yes maybe it goes to 0% but how does it operate at say 1%-15% does it flicker or just shut off?


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## damnsam77

Hey guys and gals... it's me...back from a massive 11 yr hiatus. My first theater build *(CEDAR PEAKS by DAMNSAM)* was a huge success in 2009 (Thanks to YALL!!) After I sold that house 5 yrs later and sold 90% of the gear and furniture, I moved into my 2nd home in - also Colorado through 2020 - but never got to doing anything with it. Fast-forward to COVID pandemic 10 yrs and I ended up moving to east Pennsylvania area with my family. We moved into this beautiful home in with a huge basement, and we finally started finishing the basement more than 1.5 yrs after moving in. So now I am going back to my old AVSForum roots, dusting off my well documented notes in my first *HT construction thread* and started reviewing many things, one of which was my old *GrafikEye 3106 I left behind and now I am comparing it against vs the New QS line and vs Cassetta!* 

I am wondering if I should get another used 3106 unit for nothingr... or do I sprint for the new Grafik Eye QS? I have ZERO windows, I got very lucky with this basement, and I picked the room quite literally surrounded by concrete walls from 3 sides, so no need for shades. I listed the two 6-Zone models from the QS line which align with the old 3106 model (both models below do not offer shade control which is what I need, I just have 6 zones I need to dim or switch on/off) I have 6 Light/Outlet zones which will need dimming and/or switching off/on. I am using a 4 gang electrical box to house those 6 light and outlet zones right now. 

Here are some of the questions swirling into my brain  

What is the diff with the regular QS and QS ECO model? 
Do they both have available APPS to control lighting? 
Do they work with Alexa/Google/Siri?
Or Do they have remotes or universal remote compatibility?. 
What about the Cassetta line? Any reason I should consider it over the QS or 3106?
Does Casetta offer a 6 light dimmer/switch wall plate combo? or do I have to buy 1 for each zone and have them all lined up next to each other when installed?
Should I go for the basic 6-zone QS? Any reason I should go with the Cassetta line? 
Or should I just get a used 3106 on ebay and call it a day?
*My most important WANT is CONTROL and EASE of USE!!! I would love App supported lighting controls (via Lutron app or Google/Alexa app)*

*My already wired ZONES w/ dimmer wiring:*

Main Recessed lights (dimmer)
Wall Sconces (dimmer)
Ceiling LED (dimmer)
Behind screen Lighting outlet (on/off)
Recessed spotlights pointed at screen (dimmer)
Riser lighting (dimmer)

WHICH ONE OF THESE IS THE RIGHT ONE FOR ME?


*6- zone GRAFIK Eye QS Main Unit (Non-RF)*120-127 V or 220-240 VQSGR-6P*CASETA LINE* (I see max of 2 zone per controller, do I buy 3?)*6- zone GRAFIK Eye QS Main Unit with EcoSystem (Non-RF)*120-127 V or 220-240 VQSGR-6E


Thanks all in advance for your help in untwisting this confusing new information... feels like I lived under a rock since 2010!!! 

*-SAM (Previous Builder of Cedar Peaks Cinema)*


----------



## spiwrx

damnsam77 said:


> ...Here are some of the questions swirling into my brain
> 
> What is the diff with the regular QS and QS ECO model?
> Do they both have available APPS to control lighting?
> Do they work with Alexa/Google/Siri?
> Or Do they have remotes or universal remote compatibility?.
> What about the Cassetta line? Any reason I should consider it over the QS or 3106?
> Does Casetta offer a 6 light dimmer/switch wall plate combo? or do I have to buy 1 for each zone and have them all lined up next to each other when installed?
> Should I go for the basic 6-zone QS? Any reason I should go with the Cassetta line?
> Or should I just get a used 3106 on ebay and call it a day?
> *My most important WANT is CONTROL and EASE of USE!!! I would love App supported lighting controls (via Lutron app or Google/Alexa app)*


A few quick points, you cannot get a new 3000 series anymore, the QS version is the only "new" version. To top that off Radio Ra 3 was just announced and is doesn't support any of them, the Grafik / QS line will likely disappear unless it is retooled for LED, which doesn't seem likely anytime soon. So I would focus away from from either of those options. Additionally you said you wanted App support.
Techincally you could still get a Grafik QS and use Radio RA 2 Main Repeater and Bridge to get it on an APP and all that is currently available, but why not remote mount all your lighting to individual dimmer in the equipment room and just use a keypad in the room?

I'd suggest RA3 but it won't start shipping until end of January, but Rdio Ra Select, Radio Ra 2 and Caseta will also get you on an APP.

To specifically answer some of your questions:



What is the diff with the regular QS and QS ECO model? ECO is meant for control of ECO drivers, dimming ballasts and fixtures. Typically only used commercially
Do they both have available APPS to control lighting? You can only get QS on an APP through though the Radio Ra 2 system or Home Works. 
Do they work with Alexa/Google/Siri? Via Radio Ra 2 yes, also requires a connect bridge
Or Do they have remotes or universal remote compatibility?. No, I think the remote was cut when the 3000 series was cut, though you could use Pico 4 Button as a remote
What about the Cassetta line? Any reason I should consider it over the QS or 3106? Yes, it will go directly on to an APP and has dimmers designed to work with LED lighting. Though I would use the Caseta Pro or if Grafik Eye was in your budget you get more style and programming options with RA2 or RA3. 
Does Casetta offer a 6 light dimmer/switch wall plate combo? or do I have to buy 1 for each zone and have them all lined up next to each other when installed? 1 for 1 only. Only via QS or WPM via RA2 can you still do 6 lights condensed. I suggest doing groups of 4 or less if individual. 5 & 6 gang boxes & covers get hard to come by and expensive. 
Should I go for the basic 6-zone QS? Any reason I should go with the Cassetta line? Personally I would(am) push the Radio RA, Caseta was designed for small home / apartment / condo. Radio Ra can be scaled to your entire home. If only for your theater Caseta might be OK. If you are used to Grafik Eye, then you are used to Scenes. Caseta via Pico controls only does scene controllers and only up to 3 scenes + off in a single gang. If you go to Radio Ra you can get 6 buttons (Scene or Toggle) with Raise lower. 
Or should I just get a used 3106 on ebay and call it a day? Nothing wrong with that but it may struggle with minimum wattage requirements with some of your LED zones. Also buying used obsolete equipment. 
*My most important WANT is CONTROL and EASE of USE!!! I would love App supported lighting controls (via Lutron app or Google/Alexa app)* Caseta, Radio Ra 2, Radio Ra 3 and Homeworks all work great with Alexa for me. And many of my other customers with Siri. 

I highly recommend considering Radio Ra 2 or 3. In RA2 you can still use a Grafik QS or what they call a WPM Wall Box Power Module _(Grafik Eye without buttons)_. Though neither of them were designed to support LED, you seemed to be attached and they only way to get them on an APP is via Radio Ra 2 or Home Works. Radio Ra 3 was just announced but doesn't support any of the Grafik products, QS or WPM. Because LED lighting is so prevalent I would suggest a system designed to work with LED. Both Caseta, and either Radio Ra 2 or upcoming Radio Ra 3 (Sunnata Style) were designed around LED and work with voice control.


----------



## damnsam77

spiwrx said:


> Do they both have available APPS to control lighting? You can only get QS on an APP through though the Radio Ra 2 system or Home Works.
> Do they work with Alexa/Google/Siri? Via Radio Ra 2 yes, also requires a connect bridge
> Or Do they have remotes or universal remote compatibility?. No, I think the remote was cut when the 3000 series was cut, though you could use Pico 4 Button as a remote
> What about the Cassetta line? Any reason I should consider it over the QS or 3106? Yes, it will go directly on to an APP and has dimmers designed to work with LED lighting. Though I would use the Caseta Pro or if Grafik Eye was in your budget you get more style and programming options with RA2 or RA3.
> Does Casetta offer a 6 light dimmer/switch wall plate combo? or do I have to buy 1 for each zone and have them all lined up next to each other when installed? 1 for 1 only. Only via QS or WPM via RA2 can you still do 6 lights condensed. I suggest doing groups of 4 or less if individual. 5 & 6 gang boxes & covers get hard to come by and expensive.
> Should I go for the basic 6-zone QS? Any reason I should go with the Cassetta line? Personally I would(am) push the Radio RA, Caseta was designed for small home / apartment / condo. Radio Ra can be scaled to your entire home. If only for your theater Caseta might be OK. If you are used to Grafik Eye, then you are used to Scenes. Caseta via Pico controls only does scene controllers and only up to 3 scenes + off in a single gang. If you go to Radio Ra you can get 6 buttons (Scene or Toggle) with Raise lower.
> Or should I just get a used 3106 on ebay and call it a day? Nothing wrong with that but it may struggle with minimum wattage requirements with some of your LED zones. Also buying used obsolete equipment.
> *My most important WANT is CONTROL and EASE of USE!!! I would love App supported lighting controls (via Lutron app or Google/Alexa app)* Caseta, Radio Ra 2, Radio Ra 3 and Homeworks all work great with Alexa for me. And many of my other customers with Siri.
> 
> I highly recommend considering Radio Ra 2 or 3. In RA2 you can still use a Grafik QS or what they call a WPM Wall Box Power Module _(Grafik Eye without buttons)_. Though neither of them were designed to support LED, you seemed to be attached and they only way to get them on an APP is via Radio Ra 2 or Home Works. Radio Ra 3 was just announced but doesn't support any of the Grafik products, QS or WPM. Because LED lighting is so prevalent I would suggest a system designed to work with LED. Both Caseta, and either Radio Ra 2 or upcoming Radio Ra 3 (Sunnata Style) were designed around LED and work with voice control.


My man!! Thanks for the detailed explanation, And by the way, *I was referring to buying a used GrafikEye 3106 on EBAY (not New) *I am in no rush to finish the room next week or next month, my goal is to take some time and do things right (beyond the basic AV wiring, framing, electrical and sheet rock >>> all of which is now complete. And I do have as many s 6 zones already wired and I can just for now use regular single dimmers per zone in the 4-gang box. I still have to build and wire the riser, the stage, the false wall, the CIH 2.37:1 screen, build the wall panels, carpet...etc. I am easily 3-8 months out from needing to add the final touches to the theater and by then I hope there is a better clearer choice. I will be using LED lights in 4" cans but I can switch to incadescent lights... it's quite alright. Also I did plan on using an LED strip in the dropped ceiling strip... Are you saying QS cannot handle it? Because the old 3106 line could... at this point I may just hunt for a used 3106 on ebay or market place until I can have a definitive GrafikEye solution. It sounds like I need to sit down and learn all this new stuff to understand what I am gaining and losing with each option. Again, it is just a one room set up... the home theater, with 6 light zones, but half will likely use LED strips in the ceiling and the riser. So my options are either the classic 3106 used on ebay, or this new stuff Radio RA2/3 or Caseta, but again the latter does not offer a way to control all zones in one unit... and the SCENES!!! I gotta have my scenes man!! Uggghh!! I thought we were supposed to evolve - not devolve - with technology in 10 yrs. ... sigh!!


----------



## damnsam77

spiwrx said:


> *My most important WANT is CONTROL and EASE of USE!!! I would love App supported lighting controls (via Lutron app or Google/Alexa app)* Caseta, Radio Ra 2, Radio Ra 3 and Homeworks all work great with Alexa for me. And many of my other customers with Siri.
> 
> I highly recommend considering Radio Ra 2 or 3. In RA2 you can still use a Grafik QS or what they call a WPM Wall Box Power Module _(Grafik Eye without buttons)_. Though neither of them were designed to support LED, you seemed to be attached and they only way to get them on an APP is via Radio Ra 2 or Home Works. Radio Ra 3 was just announced but doesn't support any of the Grafik products, QS or WPM. Because LED lighting is so prevalent I would suggest a system designed to work with LED. Both Caseta, and either Radio Ra 2 or upcoming Radio Ra 3 (Sunnata Style) were designed around LED and work with voice control.


Ok Question, and I hope you can answer it. If I decide to use standard bulbs (not LED) for all my wall sconces, recessed lights, and I am left with just two LED strips in ceiling and in riser, and I am happy to keep them at an ON/OFF or High/Low setting at all times (as in pick a setting a stick with it for LED strips) CAN I possibly use the new QS line with the Radio RA2 or Radio RA3? So ALL ZONES will be standard Halogen or Incadescent lights (or even the Lutron recommended bulbs)... and just two more zones for Ceiling LED strip and Riser LED strip (both zones do not need to be dimmed up or down, can stay at the same setting). .... Can the QS be a good compromise? and can I use an app based control on my phone or tablet?


----------



## AXLCMT

I have two entrances to the HT. On the one entrance is my Lutron Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6E
but on the other entrance are some old switches from the previous owner that are now no longer wired.

*What type of product can I install on my 2nd entrance wall (where there is no Grafik Eye) that can control the same lights at those controlled by my*
_*Lutron Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6E and obviously be in sync with my already installed Lutron QSGRJ-6E on the one entrance?*_


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## AXLCMT

Does anyone know the difference (as far as the number of zones among other things) between the
*Lutron Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6E-TWH and the Lutron Grafik Eye QSGRJ-6P ?*


----------



## TheNecromancer

Can anyone tell me if I will be able to control my arcade rooms 4 zones of LED light with a Lutron GrafikRA? GRX-RA-4 is the exact model numnber. I've been out of the game for quite some time. Thanks!


----------



## Snackers

HI all, I am looking for some advice and hopefully this thread is not dead!

In my home I have a couple of Grafix Eye QS panel (QSG-6PCE-WH) which are hard wired to a number of seeTouch wall panels. In my set up the lights connected to the Lutron system are all smart LEDs and integrated into Home Assistant. In order that I can read the wall panel button status I use a combination of Sonoff Basics via the load circuit to switch on and off the lights (rather than cutting the power to the bulbs) and use the IR connection linked to a Harmony Hub to pass remote commends via MQTT when the wall panel buttons are pushed. There are probably better ways, but that is where I bodged myself to.

FYI - because of the existing wiring (done before I moved in) there is no Load circuit for the lights at the wall switches. It all comes to the centralised panel area in a single room.

A problem has arisen in the one of my Grafix Eye QS seems to no longer work with IR. I've tried various fixes and also connected via USB to ensure IR enabled etc ....

So I was considering what a possible replacement would look like. A few q's if people can help:

I believe my QS panels are not wireless compatible and so I cannot simply introduce a Radio Ra2 main repeater?
In order to achieve 1 I would need to replace the QS with a wireless version, eg. QSGRK-6PCE. Given the units are discountined would this be foolish (as they are not cheap!)? Should I be looking at something else? 
If I can integrate a Radio Ra2 I assume I then don't need a bunch of inline switches, eg RRK-R6ANS-240, but does anyone know if the Home Assistant integration can then read the state of each zone connected through the Grafix Eye?
Am I missing something bleedingly obvious that would be a far better solition? My only thought at the moment is upgrade to a wireless QS unit, add Radio Ra2 and then integrate with Home Assistant such that I can do away with the sonoffs and harmony IR "work-arounds"
Any advice woud be hugely welcomed! Let me know if any thing needs clarifying.

Cheers
S


----------



## spiwrx

Snackers said:


> ...
> 
> I believe my QS panels are not wireless compatible and so I cannot simply introduce a Radio Ra2 main repeater?
> In order to achieve 1 I would need to replace the QS with a wireless version, eg. QSGRK-6PCE. Given the units are discountined would this be foolish (as they are not cheap!)? Should I be looking at something else?
> If I can integrate a Radio Ra2 I assume I then don't need a bunch of inline switches, eg RRK-R6ANS-240, but does anyone know if the Home Assistant integration can then read the state of each zone connected through the Grafix Eye?
> Am I missing something bleedingly obvious that would be a far better solition? My only thought at the moment is upgrade to a wireless QS unit, add Radio Ra2 and then integrate with Home Assistant such that I can do away with the sonoffs and harmony IR "work-arounds"


1) Your GE QS is not wireless so no RA2. Prefix has to be QSGRJ (US model is J, K may be wireless for 240v versions) for wireless model. 
2) GE QS is basically discontinued but you may be able to pay a fortune for one from their obsolete parts division. (They don't let us sell 240v version in the US anymore or I could assist you)
3) If you go RA2 you should be able to pick up status or poll the device. 
4) A few things:
4a) Your GE QS is 6 zone (circuit) in a 4 gang box. You will have to make room for 2 additional dimmer to accomplish the same thing in RA2. 
4b) Also you have to replace all the seetouch keypads to Radio Ra keypads or PICO's. RA keypads can be powered over low voltage but you will need a 48v transformer. (Although it's been tested and working on 24v also) 
4c) If you can source one they made seetouch keypads with IR that wire over the MUX link, it may be another way to continue to feed an IR signal depending on what is bad. 
4d) There was also a remote IR receiver that worked over MUX, I'd have to dig through some old catalogs but there may be other people that can instruct and adding 3rd party IR receiver or Lutron Ceiling IR over MUX. 

You cheapest test may be to try and source a IR seeTouch keypad to try and patch what you have. But I would budget for replacing things in the future. Obsolete parts may get you a replacement, albeit and expensive one, it may still be less than replacing everything. The upside from updating is more compatibility with current technologies and app. I could argue a case for both, but updating usually has the snowball effect of requiring other systems to be upgraded. 


Lastly, smart lamps and dimmers are usually bad mates. Adjust your GE QS to non-dim zones at the least.


----------



## BillW

I would also think of looking for a used Grafix eye on Ebay, I always sell the ones I remove.

Another option if really need all 6 zones and want to go Ra2 is to install the discontinued Ra2 power wallbox module, however, at this time these are not upgradable to Ra3. If budget allows, I would go Ra3 and add switchboxes as needed for the additional dimmer space as needed.


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## Snackers

Thanks both for the advice, on the easier bit first, smart bulbs are already set to be non-dimable and so GE is set accordingly!

My main concern with Ra3, although it may be temporary, is the fact it does not seem to integrate with other home automation platforms, notably in my case Home Assistant - which is a must. I also confess I am confused arouund what replaces the GE in Ra3 given all the load circuits for the various lighting zones feeds into a centralised location. I am probably missing a major point somewhere!

On the Ra2 front I am indifferent between WPM and GE - it just needs to function as the centrallised place for the wall switches to feed into. The actual lights on/off is handled directly at the bulb by home assistant. Is there a specific model number (UK) which is a wireless WPM? It will give me more EBay options to hunt for.

EDIT - so I guess the wpm are LQRK-WPM-xxxx what is the diff between the 6D and 6PCE? Am I correct in thinkinG these can communicate directly with the Ra2 main repeater or is another device also required? 

Thanks
S


----------



## spiwrx

Snackers said:


> Thanks both for the advice, on the easier bit first, smart bulbs are already set to be non-dimable and so GE is set accordingly!
> 
> My main concern with Ra3, although it may be temporary, is the fact it does not seem to integrate with other home automation platforms, notably in my case Home Assistant - which is a must. I also confess I am confused arouund what replaces the GE in Ra3 given all the load circuits for the various lighting zones feeds into a centralised location. I am probably missing a major point somewhere!
> 
> On the Ra2 front I am indifferent between WPM and GE - it just needs to function as the centrallised place for the wall switches to feed into. The actual lights on/off is handled directly at the bulb by home assistant. Is there a specific model number (UK) which is a wireless WPM? It will give me more EBay options to hunt for.
> 
> EDIT - so I guess the wpm are LQRK-WPM-xxxx what is the diff between the 6D and 6PCE? Am I correct in thinkinG these can communicate directly with the Ra2 main repeater or is another device also required?
> 
> Thanks
> S


In RA3 it's highly unlikely that the Grafik Eye or WPM will ever integrate into it. Or at least any of the current or past versions. They may come up with something to replace it. 

The LQRJ-WPM or LQRK-WPM is wireless by defualt, only designed for RA2 and Homeworks(works with either). 

The GE prefix QSGRJ is our prefix for wireless, I think yours is QSGRK for UK
QSGR is non-wireless. 
The 6PCE the 6P is six pole or 6 zone. CE is for most of Europe. 

The 6D, the D is for Dali. Dali is a more specific control for light fixtures using ballasts/drivers compatible with Dali addressable control. For us in the US, typically more commercial use. If you don't know what it is, you probably don't want it.

There are some other variations on the GE as well, but again mostly specific to their ECO ballasts and other more specific and typically commercial control types.


----------



## Snackers

spiwrx said:


> In RA3 it's highly unlikely that the Grafik Eye or WPM will ever integrate into it. Or at least any of the current or past versions. They may come up with something to replace it. The LQRJ-WPM or LQRK-WPM is wireless by defualt, only designed for RA2 and Homeworks(works with either). The GE prefix QSGRJ is our prefix for wireless, I think yours is QSGRK for UK QSGR is non-wireless. The 6PCE the 6P is six pole or 6 zone. CE is for most of Europe. The 6D, the D is for Dali. Dali is a more specific control for light fixtures using ballasts/drivers compatible with Dali addressable control. For us in the US, typically more commercial use. If you don't know what it is, you probably don't want it. There are some other variations on the GE as well, but again mostly specific to their ECO ballasts and other more specific and typically commercial control types.


 Thanks, very helpful!


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## yan_mm

I’ve got a GRX-3106 grafik eye

I think someone is messed around with it in the scenes that are set are really odd levels with really weird fade times etc

Instead of having to reprogram each scene is it possible to just factory reset the device ? and if so how ?

I’ve looked in the manuals online but couldn’t find anything about this

Thanks in advance


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