# List of HTIB's and/or AVR's with HDMI audio processing (5.1/7.1 PCM) Help List Grow!!



## darkleafar

This is the new thread to replace the old sticky, because the previous author only posted twice in this forums, disappeared, and thus we could not update the list. Through the special permission of an administrator, I have made a new thread that was immediately stickied. I will update as much as possible. *Please help make the list grow!*


With that being said, the purpose of this thread is to provide a list of the few "future-proofed" receivers and/or HTIB's that will process PCM signal through HDMI with as many as 7.1 channels in order to be able to get the new lossless formats. _For those who do not know, an explanation of why PCM is important is provided below._ As far as I know, there does not seem to be many of the latter, and thus I think a list will prove very useful for a lot of people. Many people will probably say why not simply use analog outputs. My response to those people makes me think of two things:

Some people do not want to deal with complex connections involving analog to digital, digital to analog, etc.
A considerable amount of people are PS3 owners, and this kind of receiver/HTIB is indispensable for the release of the PS3's full audio potential (lossless formats, Dolby TrueHD, DTS MA)
*LINEAR PCM VS. BITSTREAM*


It was called to my attention that some people in this forum might find this information at best, useful; at worst, informative. Linear PCM is the state an audio signal is in after it has been decoded. Bitstream is the state an audio signal is in before it is decoded. In other words, Linear PCM has already been decoded and is ready to be outputted through the speakers; whereas Bitstream is a virgin signal and must be decoded at some point, either in the receiver or the player, before being outputted through the speakers. PS3 is not capable of sending HD lossless formats in bitstream format. Instead, the PS3 is designed to decode the HD lossless signals on board and then send them as Linear PCM to a receiver that is capable of accepting at least 5.1 to 7.1 channels via HDMI cable in an LPCM. Thus the need for this thread.


However, it is important to understand that HDMI is the only cable compatible with the PS3 that has enough bandwidth to transfer HD lossless audio in Linear PCM form. Optical and RCA cables, the only other options in the PS3, only have enough bandwidth for different forms of stereo and surround audio. If you send Linear PCM through Optical or RCA, you will only get 2.0 channels of audio, because that is all the bandwidth these cables are designed to handle.


Another fact some people might find useful: there a lot more players that decode both DTS MA and True HD than there are Receivers. Therefore, it is inherently more common (and easier) to have a blu-ray player that decodes both HD formats on board and therefore sends an LPCM audio signal to a receiver, connected via HDMI, that accepts and processes at least 5.1 or 7.1 channels of LPCM (in this case, the receiver does not necessarily have to claim to be able to decode HD formats since they would be decoded on the player, not the receiver); than it is to have a blu-ray player that fails to decode at least one format (namely DTS MA) and therefore sends a bitstream audio signal to a receiver, connected via an analog, optical or HDMI cable, that would be accepting the bitstream signal to be processed on board (in this case, the receiver does have to claim to be able to decode HD formats because the audio bitstream signal would be decoded on the receiver, not the player).

*WHY IS PCM IMPORTANT?*


If anybody is looking around these forums and they are new to certain subjects, such as me who used to be new to all AVR related stuff because I have never owned one before, I think is important that I post a fact here that I had to look for long and hard to make sure I was on the right track before buying my AVR. Here it is:


Any receiver that is capable of accepting LPCM (usually they accept anywhere from 5.1 to 8 channels) can and will be able to give you the high end formats, DTS-MA, DOLBY-TRUEHD, or Uncompressed PCM (LPCM). It does not matter if the receiver does not say or does not have stamped somewhere on the box or on the receiver the symbols for DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD (Uncompressed PCM is usually not directly referred to by manufacturers). However, it does matter whether the BLU-RAY or HD-DVD player has the DTS-MA and/or DOLBY-TRUEHD symbol stamped on the box, because if your receiver is not going to decode these formats, you player is going to have to. As long as you make sure that the receiver is able to accept LPCM/PCM (watch out how many channels it accepts) and that your player has either DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD stamped on its box you will definetely get lossless audio. All PS3 owners do not have to worry, PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding both formats on board. Although many of you already know this, there a lot of people who do not. The above is possible because every single HD-DVD or BLU-RAY player *will and must be capable of* playing the Uncompressed LPCM audio track which is lossless audio of the same quality as DTS-MA or DOLBY-TRUEHD. If you have a BLU-RAY disc or HD-DVD that does not contain an Uncompressed LPCM track, it is going to have either of the other two formats. Since we have already made sure the player we have has at least one of these formats stamped on the box, the player you have *will and must be capable of* decoding the HD audio formats on board, then outputting it as PCM to any receiver that accepts it. The difference would be that the ps3, for instance, can only do this through HDMI. (many people see this as a setback but personally I do not) Other dedicated players, are gonna be able to accept PCM and process it through analog outputs without necessarily using HDMI. At this point, it is a matter of preference. For further information on PCM and the new lossless formats, please refer to this very informative sticky thread or also you can check out the *official consumer white page published by Dolby Labs and by DTS Inc.* The consumer white page is lengthy, useful information for consumers who want to know how the new HD audio signals work and what you need to get them to output correctly and losslessly. Links are below:

DTS-HD Consumer White Page 
Dolby TrueHD Consumer White Page 

*THE BIG "BUT" TO PCM*


Just because the receiver is able to accept LPCM, it does not mean it will be able to process it. The LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel which is represented by the ".1" in a 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1 system, is a audio channel that exclusively carries bass-only information. More info here and here as well (links provided by Ecuadorian, thanks!). This channel, when received via PCM, needs to be boosted from 1db(decibel) to at least 10db or else you will hear a very low volume bass coming out of your subwoofer. The remaining channels need to be extracted from the LPCM signal, and if they are not you will get a a bassless sound, or at least the bass will be very low. Unfortunately, this details are not always told or listed by the manufacturers, therefore sometimes the only way to know whether a device is true LPCM (and by that I meant that it is able to support at least 5.1 channels and boost the bass) is to actually buy it and try it out, or, of course, search around this forums. That is after all why we are all here ^_^

*LIST OF HTIB'S AND AVR'S WITH HDMI AUDIO PROCESSING (LINEAR PCM)*


*Underlined items on the list are AVR's, not HTIB's.* I realize this is the HTIB forum, and adding receivers might seem out of topic, but I did not want to have to exclude a receiver if somebody made the suggestion to add it. While I will not deliberately look for receivers to be added, and while I will be focusing on adding HTIB's, I will not say "no" if somebody suggests and AVR. ( I want to thank wallst32 for pointing this out to me )


Denon
-AVR-2308CI

-AVR-788

-AVR-1908


Samsung

-AS720


Sony

-HT-7200DH (Available May)

-HT-CT100

-HT-SS2300 (Coming this summer)

-HT-SF2000

-HT-SS2000
-STR-DG720

-STR-DG820

-STR-DG910

-STR-DG920


Onkyo

-HT-SP907

-HT-SP908
-TX-SR605

-TX-SR705

-TX-SR875 **All Onkyo receivers models SR6XX and above will be able (or already are able) to handle HDMI audio.
*

Bose



Harman Kardon
-AVR-247

-AVR-347

-AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)


Yamaha
-RX-V661
-RX-V663


This is all I got so far. I would like to point out that I am by no means an expert or a professional in all of this. I am just one more member, learning as much as I can, and helping out others as much as I can. *If you know any more AVR's or HTIB's that can be added to this list, please post them here, and I will add them to the list. I will update as much as possible. If you see any of my facts are wrong please let me know, I am by no means perfect. Further info about each HTIB and receiver will be added on the list (i.e channels, average price, perhaps more) Comments are appreciated and welcome*


----------



## gunstarx

I think adding further info (ie, playstation 3, comcast etc) is an awesome idea - i'm a newbie as you can see (first post hehe), and I want my next system to be future proof as much as possible like many of us here. Good job on the explanation and putting together this list with everyone. kudos all!


----------



## samsurd2

Suggest you remove the Sony HT-DDW995 from your list. Here's why:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11069168


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13646006
> 
> 
> Suggest you remove the Sony HT-DDW995 from your list. Here's why:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post11069168



Thank you for the info, it is now removed ^_^ care to add any?


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gunstarx* /forum/post/13645569
> 
> 
> I think adding further info (ie, playstation 3, comcast etc) is an awesome idea - i'm a newbie as you can see (first post hehe), and I want my next system to be future proof as much as possible like many of us here. Good job on the explanation and putting together this list with everyone. kudos all!



Well, welcome to the forums. However, by fiurther info I meant further info on the receivers and HITBs listed on the list, not on what equipment you have. Just clarifying things so people will not get confused


----------



## jcantara

Are you sure the Sony HT-DDWG700 does HDMI? It doesn't have HDMI inputs at all that I can see:









Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, I'm quite new at all this







(shopping for my first home theater setup in the next couple of months or so)


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcantara* /forum/post/13648309
> 
> 
> Are you sure the Sony HT-DDWG700 does HDMI? It doesn't have HDMI inputs at all that I can see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious, I'm quite new at all this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (shopping for my first home theater setup in the next couple of months or so)



Although I have read extensively on home theater and learned a lot in the past couple of months, I will also be buying my first AVR sometime in the next couple of months. Maybe I ll wait for black friday sale..







anyways, thank you very much for pointing out that receiver. It does not do HDMI, it has been removed.


----------



## darkleafar

Two new ones added! (Denon)


----------



## darkleafar

Four more added (Sony) Info on this page.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=27925


----------



## wallst32

Since this is the HTIB forum, shouldn't the list be kept to just HTIBs rather than HTIBs AND receivers? A complete set (HTIB), or buying piece by piece certainly caters to a different group of consumers.


Additionally, there are already several receivers released in 2007 that have HDMI audio processing supporting multichannel PCM. People looking for these models, would go to the recievers forum, not the HTIB forum.


----------



## wallst32

I guess the other suggestion that I would make is if you want to keep the list HTIB and receiver, at least denote what's what. Maybe an * can mean it's HTIB. Or just put the HTIBs on top, and receivers on the bottom of the list.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallst32* /forum/post/13650380
> 
> 
> I guess the other suggestion that I would make is if you want to keep the list HTIB and receiver, at least denote what's what. Maybe an * can mean it's HTIB. Or just put the HTIBs on top, and receivers on the bottom of the list.



Thanks for helping out with your suggestions. List updated.

Wait what? where did you get and HD DVD player for 99 bucks?


----------



## wallst32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/13651344
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping out with your suggestions. List updated.
> 
> Wait what? where did you get and HD DVD player for 99 bucks?



Ah, that $99 is in reference to the Walmart sale back in Nov '07. I need to update my tagline since I already sold the unit, but I'm too lazy










For receivers you can add:


Harman Kardon:

AVR-247

AVR-347

AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)


Onkyo:

TX-SR605

TX-SR705

TX-SR875


Yamaha:

RX-V661


The receiver list is going to get very long as the feature will be much more common going forward.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallst32* /forum/post/13651799
> 
> 
> Ah, that $99 is in reference to the Walmart sale back in Nov '07. I need to update my tagline since I already sold the unit, but I'm too lazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For receivers you can add:
> 
> 
> Harman Kardon:
> 
> AVR-247
> 
> AVR-347
> 
> AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)
> 
> 
> Onkyo:
> 
> TX-SR605
> 
> TX-SR705
> 
> TX-SR875
> 
> 
> Yamaha:
> 
> RX-V661
> 
> 
> The receiver list is going to get very long as the feature will be much more common going forward.



Sale?! Man, how come I find out now...lol. Oh well, HD DVD lost already did they not? so I think it does not matter anymore. List has been updated. Thanks!


----------



## malaka105

I have a Sony 40v3000 and use a ps3 as my bluray player. I can not decide what I should do for my htib. I'm stuck on these:


Samsung

-AS720


Sony

-HT-7200DH (Available May)

or

-HT-SS2300


I've been told to go for the Samsung because it is capable of 7.1, but the 7200DH does come w/ a dvd player and it's a Sony and I was thinking that the Bravia Sync may come in handy. The ss2300 looked interesting. I was hoping for some expert opinions because I've never had a home theater set up before. I have a fairly small apartment but will eventually move to a larger space.


----------



## darkleafar

well malakala (please forgive me if I misspell, I'm in a pda. I'm no expert, but I do read a lot. the ss2000 sony series (predecessor of ss2300) had an issue where it would make an annoying "ssss" sound...I hope this will be corrected in this new one..the samsung is said not to be very friendly with the ps3..and that is the extent of my knowledge on those


----------



## yungintl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/13658649
> 
> 
> well malakala (please forgive me if I misspell, I'm in a pda. I'm no expert, but I do read a lot. the ss2000 sony series (predecessor of ss2300) had an issue where it would make an annoying "ssss" sound...I hope this will be corrected in this new one..the samsung is said not to be very friendly with the ps3..and that is the extent of my knowledge on those



can someone elaborate on not being freindly with the ps3?


----------



## gadgetkid

Yes, additional info (e.g. #channels, power ratings) on each AVR/HTIB would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Doom878

I think the CT-100 should be notated of its form as not being a typical 5 satellite, sub, and receiver setup. Great list!


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gadgetkid* /forum/post/13666354
> 
> 
> Yes, additional info (e.g. #channels, power ratings) on each AVR/HTIB would be greatly appreciated.



alright, ill get to it sometime this weekend, I ve been pretty busy with college! Thank you for your input


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doom878* /forum/post/13666687
> 
> 
> I think the CT-100 should be notated of its form as not being a typical 5 satellite, sub, and receiver setup. Great list!



Since I will be adding info to every one of them, what you requested will consequently be done as well. Good point though, thanks ^_^


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yungintl* /forum/post/13661550
> 
> 
> can someone elaborate on not being freindly with the ps3?



Look, that's my bad. That samsung model, when I looked it up, I saw a post of somebody who had it, and returned because he was having certain problems with the HDMI passing the audio correctly or something along those lines, I really cannot recall so I dont wanna make stuff up. I will tell you this, though. Research it, and if you cannot find throughout the internet anybody else complaining about it, then chances are that guy had bad luck and had a faulty model. But if you do find some stuff about it, then chances are whatever you find is one of the flaws of the system. good luck


----------



## Ecuadorian

Darkleafar: This list is an *excellent* idea.


Many people, myself included, already own an old 5.1 HTIB with integrated DVD player and are now discovering that the thing doesn't have any kind of surround sound input (no optical, no coaxial), so we can't upgrade our disc players and _still_ have surround sound.


Some of us in this category are torn between the two possible upgrade routes:


-Buy a new HTIB, this time without an integrated disc player

-Buy a receiver only, and keep the 5 satellite speakers from the old HTIB.


Unfortunately, there was no specific place in the AVS Forum for people facing this quandary ... which is curious, because player-less HTIBs are nothing but a receiver packed with a set of speakers. In fact, I think player-less HTIBs should not be put in the same category with HTIBs that integrate a player.


So, I just wanted to encourage you to keep up this work.


By the way, please take into consideration that some AVRs and player-less HTIBs, despite being able to *accept* a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM signal, can't *process* it. I think it is extremely important to exclude all units that can't *process* the signal and only pass it "as is" to the speakers. In these units the subwoofer will sound extremely quiet, because they do not apply the proper 10dB boost to the LFE channel and do not re-direct bass from the other 5 or 7 channels to the subwoofer.


Then, in receivers (both sold alone and as part of HTIBs) that can not *process* the PCM 5.1 or 7.1 signal, but instead only pass it directly to the Digital-to-Analog converters and to the amplifiers, users complain that "The bass is too quiet" or say that there is an "LFE bug".


These receivers often can't do surround-processing on a 5.1 PCM signal, either, meaning that even if a back channel is matrixed in the surround channels (as is the case in Ratatouille), they can't extract it, so you'll only hear 5.1... without bass.


You could mark those receivers with a note or a sign, avoiding frustration to users.


You can find a very good explanation in these links:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/38_lfe.pdf 
http://tyrorex.com/whats_new.html 


And further info on the DTS and Dolby HD audio formats (very lenghty read but extremely informative):
http://www.dtsonline.com/media/DTS-HD_WhitePaper.pdf 
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...whitepaper.pdf 


I love this line in the Dolby white paper, about the future of HDMI audio:
_"there will be no particular reason or benefit to decoding native audio bitstreams in the A/V receiver."_


Kudos again and keep up the good work!


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ecuadorian* /forum/post/13669450
> 
> 
> Darkleafar: This list is an *excellent* idea.
> 
> 
> Many people, myself included, already own an old 5.1 HTIB with integrated DVD player and are now discovering that the thing doesn't have any kind of surround sound input (no optical, no coaxial), so we can't upgrade our disc players and _still_ have surround sound.
> 
> 
> Some of us in this category are torn between the two possible upgrade routes:
> 
> 
> -Buy a new HTIB, this time without an integrated disc player
> 
> -Buy a receiver only, and keep the 5 satellite speakers from the old HTIB.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, there was no specific place in the AVS Forum for people facing this quandary ... which is curious, because player-less HTIBs are nothing but a receiver packed with a set of speakers. In fact, I think player-less HTIBs should not be put in the same category with HTIBs that integrate a player.
> 
> 
> So, I just wanted to encourage you to keep up this work.
> 
> 
> By the way, please take into consideration that some AVRs and player-less HTIBs, despite being able to *accept* a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM signal, can't *process* it. I think it is extremely important to exclude all units that can't *process* the signal and only pass it "as is" to the speakers. In these units the subwoofer will sound extremely quiet, because they do not apply the proper 10dB boost to the LFE channel and do not re-direct bass from the other 5 or 7 channels to the subwoofer.
> 
> 
> Then, in receivers (both sold alone and as part of HTIBs) that can not *process* the PCM 5.1 or 7.1 signal, but instead only pass it directly to the Digital-to-Analog converters and to the amplifiers, users complain that "The bass is too quiet" or say that there is an "LFE bug".
> 
> 
> These receivers often can't do surround-processing on a 5.1 PCM signal, either, meaning that even if a back channel is matrixed in the surround channels (as is the case in Ratatouille), they can't extract it, so you'll only hear 5.1... without bass.
> 
> 
> You could mark those receivers with a note or a sign, avoiding frustration to users.
> 
> 
> You can find a very good explanation in these links:
> http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/38_lfe.pdf
> http://tyrorex.com/whats_new.html
> 
> 
> And further info on the DTS and Dolby HD audio formats (very lenghty read but extremely informative):
> http://www.dtsonline.com/media/DTS-HD_WhitePaper.pdf
> http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech...whitepaper.pdf
> 
> 
> I love this line in the Dolby white paper, about the future of HDMI audio:
> _"there will be no particular reason or benefit to decoding native audio bitstreams in the A/V receiver."_
> 
> 
> Kudos again and keep up the good work!



I already knew about the fact that some receiver are not capable of boosting LFE to 10db, and about the signal not being processed correctly. However, what I have been trying to figure out is how to distinguish one from the other. The manufacturarer's websites usually will not give such information..However, I think it would be safe to assume that those systems labeled as "blu ray disc companion" or "blu ray disc matching" do process the PCM and boost the Low frequency to 10db, right? wouldnt this assumption theory be correct? could you help on deciphering how to know if the receiver processes PCM or not? that would really help. Anybody else knows how to know? thanks


----------



## Doom878

Onkyo released 3 new HTIB's. The story is on the main page. I believe the top line model will process sound via HDMI but there is no clear indication. In the slide show it seems that the base model doesn't support HDMI at all as I saw no connections. Anyone have more information on them?


----------



## Carsfanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/13669920
> 
> 
> I already knew about the fact that some receiver are not capable of boosting LFE to 10db, and about the signal not being processed correctly. However, what I have been trying to figure out is how to distinguish one from the other. The manufacturarer's websites usually will not give such information..However, I think it would be safe to assume that those systems labeled as "blu ray disc companion" or "blu ray disc matching" do process the PCM and boost the Low frequency to 10db, right? wouldnt this assumption theory be correct? could you help on deciphering how to know if the receiver processes PCM or not? that would really help. Anybody else knows how to know? thanks



About the only way I have found thus far to find out for certain is to call the manufacturer and have them tell you/find out.


----------



## darkleafar

if they were just announced the information on them is probably minimal, but ill check it out, thanks for the info.


----------



## samsurd2

I just noticed that the new Yamaha RX-V663 isn't listed although the RX-V661 is. A sin of omission.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/13688602
> 
> 
> I just noticed that the new Yamaha RX-V663 isn't listed although the RX-V661 is. A sin of omission.



Thank you! are you certain as to whether these two yamaha models accept multichannel pcm (not just stereo) correctly boost the LFE channel?


----------



## samsurd2

Yes and yes.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doom878* /forum/post/13672137
> 
> 
> Onkyo released 3 new HTIB's. The story is on the main page. I believe the top line model will process sound via HDMI but there is no clear indication. In the slide show it seems that the base model doesn't support HDMI at all as I saw no connections. Anyone have more information on them?



From Onkyo the 6xx line and up will accept HDMI audio.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/13692778
> 
> 
> From Onkyo the 6xx line and up will accept HDMI audio.



THank you!, I will add that fact to the list near the Onkyo section


----------



## Spektricide

Onkyo HT-S894


5.1 setup. Not sure if it's discontinued or not.


----------



## tamahome02000

I don't think the ps3 outputs hd bitstream at all, so this is the only way to go.


Btw, I heard ps3 just got a firmware update to decode dts-hd ma.


----------



## BeerManMike

The PS3 cannot do bitstream hd at all, it's a hardware thing so it will never be possible on current PS3s.


Also as for the "handshaking" issues with the Samsung AS720 and the PS3, if you look in the "main" AS720 thread people have had no problems (with any products) when the last thing you turn on is the reciever itself. These PS3 handshaking issues seem to be a USER problem instead of a HARDWARE problem =)


*Also i have a PS3, Comcast HD Box and a Samsung AS720 that i am going to connect together when my new house is built (by august) so i can better answer questions and test out the reciever and any issues that i run across. (i haven't even opened the AS720 box yet)


----------



## dborgill

Most of these HTIB I cannot find online.


So far, what has been found to be the best value/performance on the list?


----------



## the_r

There are a tonne of new Yamaha AVRs that accept LCPM, starting with the RXV463 (or the equivalent HTR 6140).


Anything moving up from that should also go on your list.


Some of their older models are also LCPM friendly, including the HTR 6060 (you can put that on your list too). Visit the Yamaha website and you can jot down at least another 3-5 models.


And as another post mentioned, this list is indeed going to get very long with more and more manufacturers including this spec in their AVRs.


----------



## tamahome02000

Sonystyle advertises the ht-ss2000 & ht-sf2000 as matched for blue ray and having lpcm: 2ch/5.1ch thru hdmi. Also some kind of 'rack style' rht-s10. Not the ht-ct100 or ht-7200dh though. *shrug*


----------



## Doom878

I have a ct100 and it offers LPCM. That's how my SA8300 HD DVR box is hooked up.


----------



## joevfx

someone just added a thread outside here about the onkyo sp908 only doing 3.1 off of his PS3. so he either doenst have it hooked up right or it doesnt do 7.1 with pcm.


----------



## joevfx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BeerManMike* /forum/post/13831322
> 
> 
> The PS3 cannot do bitstream hd at all, it's a hardware thing so it will never be possible on current PS3s.
> 
> 
> Also as for the "handshaking" issues with the Samsung AS720 and the PS3, if you look in the "main" AS720 thread people have had no problems (with any products) when the last thing you turn on is the reciever itself. These PS3 handshaking issues seem to be a USER problem instead of a HARDWARE problem =)
> 
> 
> *Also i have a PS3, Comcast HD Box and a Samsung AS720 that i am going to connect together when my new house is built (by august) so i can better answer questions and test out the reciever and any issues that i run across. (i haven't even opened the AS720 box yet)



i dotn understand how it can "never" do bitstream, honestly no one has any idea what the PS3 is capable of except the engineers. So unless your an engineer of the CELL and the Ps3 i have to disagree with you.


yes it cant do bitstream right now, but i wouldnt say it never can, unless an Engineer has said so.


----------



## bytor99999

Does the Sony DG520 fit the bill, I am a noob, so I can't tell, it seems by the description here that it looks like it, but I am uncertain.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Receivers 


bytor99999


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bytor99999* /forum/post/13972102
> 
> 
> Does the Sony DG520 fit the bill, I am a noob, so I can't tell, it seems by the description here that it looks like it, but I am uncertain.
> 
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...Name=Receivers
> 
> 
> bytor99999



Nope:



> Quote:
> HDMI Pass-Through - Powerful HDMI connectivity allows for uncompressed 1080p video to pass through directly to your HDMI capable television. (_A separate cable would be needed for audio_.)



Denon 788 does.


I think this thread is abandoned.


----------



## Ecuadorian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/13974311
> 
> 
> 
> I think this thread is abandoned.



This thread hasn't been updated in more than a month, and it clearly violates AVSforum policy of "Not listing your equipment" in your signature.


----------



## pjman80

I'm still in the process of learning all this stuff.


Do the receivers in this list decode Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio? Or does the device (Blu-Ray player, PS3, etc.) have to first decode the Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD and turn the stream into LPCM?


----------



## shellguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ecuadorian* /forum/post/13974804
> 
> 
> This thread hasn't been updated in more than a month, and it clearly violates AVSforum policy of "Not listing your equipment" in your signature.




I only see one person on this page of the thread that has their equp listed in their post..



Will


----------



## Spektricide

It's not like manufacturer's are popping new HTiB's out every month. It's also less likely that the ones they make actually process audio over HDMI. Why is one month of dead space a big issue?


This thread is invaluable to me and many other PS3 owners who *must* have audio over HDMI.


----------



## Doom878

Where are the rules? I saw rules in the stickies in the Screens section but it seems some sections don't have them.


----------



## jsntree

Does anyone know how well any of the HTIBs pair with the samsung ln52a750. i just bought one and would really like to buy a system that pairs nicely with it. I was thinking one of the onkyo systems but not sure. Thanks.


----------



## Ecuadorian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doom878* /forum/post/13994235
> 
> 
> Where are the rules? I saw rules in the stickies in the Screens section but it seems some sections don't have them.



Go to your UserCP and click on "signature". There is a warning that reads in bold, red letters:


"NOTE...Do not list equipment in your signature."


----------



## GoodToGo1

Can anyone please tell me if this one is ok?


----------



## bytor99999




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoodToGo1* /forum/post/14018141
> 
> 
> Can anyone please tell me if this one is ok?



Just based on the specs listed for the receiver in that page, I do not see the HD audio stuff, so I would guess no.


bytor99999


----------



## SFGiantsfn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoodToGo1* /forum/post/14018141
> 
> 
> Can anyone please tell me if this one is ok?



Yeah, this is a no-go. I found this quote:


"HDMI Pass-Thru for Video Delivery


HDMI pass-thru enables the delivery of 1080p video content to a compatible display. This means that it will handle the full potential of Blu-ray Disc, DVD, HD broadcasts and console games. 1080p pass-thru capability is perfect for getting the highest possible video resolution from PlayStation® 3 and dedicated Blu-ray Disc players.

Note: A separate audio connection is necessary to process multichannel audio. "


----------



## kagolu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SFGiantsfn* /forum/post/14022258
> 
> 
> Yeah, this is a no-go. I found this quote:
> 
> 
> "HDMI Pass-Thru for Video Delivery
> 
> 
> HDMI pass-thru enables the delivery of 1080p video content to a compatible display. This means that it will handle the full potential of Blu-ray Disc, DVD, HD broadcasts and console games. 1080p pass-thru capability is perfect for getting the highest possible video resolution from PlayStation® 3 and dedicated Blu-ray Disc players.
> 
> Note: A separate audio connection is necessary to process multichannel audio. "



Does the PS3 output audio and video separately? Don't have a avr so I'm not sure.


----------



## Jakeman02




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kagolu* /forum/post/14022341
> 
> 
> Does the PS3 output audio and video separately? Don't have a avr so I'm not sure.



If you mean can it output and video with connections other than HDMI then yes.


----------



## kagolu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jakeman02* /forum/post/14032604
> 
> 
> If you mean can it output and video with connections other than HDMI then yes.



Sorry, mean't can it do hdmi video and then audio separately?


----------



## stephenx

I'm a newb, so forgive me. For example, I'm looking at the sony ht2700...and even though it does not say it supports DTS-MA or Dolby True-HD, my PS3 combined with this setup through hdmi WILL give me the HD sound I want, regardless of what the box says? Do I understand this correctly?


Thanks everyone if you can help me make sure I understand this!

-Stephen


----------



## samsurd2

If what you mean is HT-7200DH, the answer is yes.


----------



## jbrowland




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BeerManMike* /forum/post/13831322
> 
> 
> 
> Also as for the "handshaking" issues with the Samsung AS720 and the PS3, if you look in the "main" AS720 thread people have had no problems (with any products) when the last thing you turn on is the reciever itself. These PS3 handshaking issues seem to be a USER problem instead of a HARDWARE problem =)



I recently posted in this thread mentioned. I have a ps3 and hooked it up with the as720 I returned for a few reasons, one of them being handshake issues. It didn't matter what I turned on first. I still got handshake issues and others as well like a noticeable quality loss compared to a direct hdmi match to the tv. When it worked, the as720 really was amazing for it's price point!


I spoke to Samsung tech support twice and even they admitted that the as720 had some known handshake issues and they blamed it on hdmi technology being new etc...blah blah blah










In the end, I took it back after hours and hours of frustration and fussing with settings. I love that I have become an expert on the use and settings of gear I no longer own, lol.


----------



## tamahome02000

What about these onkyo htib's? They're all advertised as 'hdmi simple solutions' just like the s907 & sp908. The bottom 2 are older like the s907:


ht-sp904 (not this one)

ht-sr750 (not this one)

ht-s894


----------



## mlb5000

Does anyone know if the Bose Lifestyle 38 or 48 are capable of processing LPCM/PCM?


----------



## etothe456t




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlb5000* /forum/post/14071309
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the Bose Lifestyle 38 or 48 are capable of processing LPCM/PCM?



No those systems don't have an HDMI input, only a digial coaxial or digital optical, which cannot handle the bandwidth needed for PCM 5.1/7.1


They can do PCM 2.0, over their digial coaxial or digital optical ports though...


----------



## etothe456t

On a related note I've been trying to do more research into whether or not other people have confirmed they can get PCM 5.1 audio on the bose V20 and V30 which are listed in the first post of this thread.


According to users from another thread - the Bose V20 and V30 should be taken off this list. While they seem to accept a PCM signal, users in avsforum thread 939249 (post #17) have reported they can only get a down-mixed PCM 2.0 from the V20/V30's when PCM 5.1 is input to them over HDMI.


----------



## GoodToGo1

And the suckage of Bose is complete....


----------



## tamahome02000

 Onkyo intros WAVIO GXW-2.1HD expandable HTIB in Japan


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ecuadorian* /forum/post/13999306
> 
> 
> Go to your UserCP and click on "signature". There is a warning that reads in bold, red letters:
> 
> 
> "NOTE...Do not list equipment in your signature."



Hey Ecuadorian, thanks again for all the help you gave a while back. Yes, I have not updated this thread in a very long time, and I apologize. I have been caught up with many things and have not had time to be online for a while now. I was out of town in a vacation, and I was also out of town at a guitar competition, also caught up with looking for some more scholarships and looking for a new job. Again, I apologize to everyone for abandoning this thread for so long. I am sorry about listing the equipment on my sig, believe it or not I am absent minded enough to have completely missed the red bold letters..lol..it runs in the family. Well, I guess I better get to work on updating this thing.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *etothe456t* /forum/post/14092760
> 
> 
> On a related note I've been trying to do more research into whether or not other people have confirmed they can get PCM 5.1 audio on the bose V20 and V30 which are listed in the first post of this thread.
> 
> 
> According to users from another thread - the Bose V20 and V30 should be taken off this list. While they seem to accept a PCM signal, users in avsforum thread 939249 (post #17) have reported they can only get a down-mixed PCM 2.0 from the V20/V30's when PCM 5.1 is input to them over HDMI.



I made note, there are being removed, thanks


----------



## kagolu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14125473
> 
> 
> Hey Ecuadorian, thanks again for all the help you gave a while back. Yes, I have not updated this thread in a very long time, and I apologize. I have been caught up with many things and have not had time to be online for a while now. I was out of town in a vacation, and I was also out of town at a guitar competition, also caught up with looking for some more scholarships and looking for a new job. Again, I apologize to everyone for abandoning this thread for so long. I am sorry about listing the equipment on my sig, believe it or not I am absent minded enough to have completely missed the red bold letters..lol..it runs in the family. Well, I guess I better get to work on updating this thing.



Welcome back!


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dborgill* /forum/post/13847708
> 
> 
> Most of these HTIB I cannot find online.
> 
> 
> So far, what has been found to be the best value/performance on the list?



That is in fact a very hard question to answer, and I really do not thing I could personally answer that question for you. The only thing I do know, however, is that the HT-CT100 is very well liked and is probably one of the best options out there for those who wanna keep their budget minimal and who do not care to have a simulated surround system rather than a real one. Also, I hate to incline towards a certain but it we talk about value and price with an acceptable performance, it seems that Sony is doing the job. Granted, the Sony is not the best out there, but just look at the str dg20. those feature only 299? i think is a very good deal. Harmon Kardon and Denon are probably gonna easily beat Sony in performance, while Onkyo and and Yamaha are probably around the same level, and some models might be quite superior but still, it seems like somehow Sony remains cheaper. This is just my personal opinion, please dont flame till I burn.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/13974311
> 
> 
> Nope:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Denon 788 does.
> 
> 
> I think this thread is abandoned.



Not anymore, and made a note of that Denon


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spektricide* /forum/post/13993010
> 
> 
> It's not like manufacturer's are popping new HTiB's out every month. It's also less likely that the ones they make actually process audio over HDMI. Why is one month of dead space a big issue?
> 
> 
> This thread is invaluable to me and many other PS3 owners who *must* have audio over HDMI.



Thank you very much sir, I appreciate you being understanding. But fear not! I am back.


----------



## mswoods1

Hey, from doing some researching, I believe that the Onkyo 601 and 602 and 603 cannot handle HDMI audio. In fact, from what I read none of them even have any HDMI ins or outs (only components for HD.) So, not all Onkyo SR6XX's and above can handle HDMI audio.


----------



## darkleafar

I will look into that when I get home tonight, thanks for the heads up


----------



## Myke256

Onkyo TX-SR576 process 5.1/7.1 PMC as well.


----------



## sknvn

Please Harman Kardon CP-60 CP-65 to the list. These are HTiB that use AVR247 and AVR347 and handle HDMI audio.

http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...e=C&prod=CP+60


----------



## Myke256




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sknvn* /forum/post/14207595
> 
> 
> But it does not get the sound from HDMI input. HDMI is just a pass through.



huh? The 576 is not pass through
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i


----------



## GoodToGo1

Cambridge Audio Receiver Azur 640R may be capable of doing HDMI audio processing.

Receiver page 

Receiver back shot


----------



## sknvn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Myke256* /forum/post/14209438
> 
> 
> huh? The 576 is not pass through
> http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i



You are right. When I read this somehow I still thought pass through.

1080P HDMI v1.3a Repeater: 3 inputs


----------



## tamahome02000

Sony ss2300 is out.


----------



## 5_against_1

At sonystyle.ca, there's the new Sony HT-SF2300. The specs says is has three HDMI inputs and LPCM through HDMI (2 ch., 5.1 ch.).


----------



## GoodToGo1

I think OP has disappeared lol...


----------



## tamahome02000

This calls for a wiki...


----------



## darkleafar

Wow a lot of happened this last 10 days, let me catch up guys


----------



## AVDave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallst32* /forum/post/13651799
> 
> 
> Ah, that $99 is in reference to the Walmart sale back in Nov '07. I need to update my tagline since I already sold the unit, but I'm too lazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For receivers you can add:
> 
> 
> Harman Kardon:
> 
> AVR-247
> 
> AVR-347
> 
> AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)
> 
> 
> Onkyo:
> 
> TX-SR605
> 
> TX-SR705
> 
> TX-SR875
> 
> 
> Yamaha:
> 
> RX-V661
> 
> 
> The receiver list is going to get very long as the feature will be much more common going forward.



Are there any more HK receivers that support 1080p HDMI?


----------



## TruthBringR

I'm amused at this thread - why would anyone buy an HTIB suddenly care about LPCM processing.. "i bought a toyota corolla and now I want turbo and an afterburner"


----------



## kagolu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TruthBringR* /forum/post/14255327
> 
> 
> I'm amused at this thread - why would anyone buy an HTIB suddenly care about LPCM processing.. "i bought a toyota corolla and now I want turbo and an afterburner"



What an amazingly contributive post.


----------



## Doom878




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TruthBringR* /forum/post/14255327
> 
> 
> I'm amused at this thread - why would anyone buy an HTIB suddenly care about LPCM processing.. "i bought a toyota corolla and now I want turbo and an afterburner"



The same reason Mustang owners modify their cars while getting laughed at by Ferrari owners.


----------



## lostcase

Anyone of these HTiB retail for under $400? I know thats a stretch, buy my wife is gunho about getting the DAVHDX275 simply because it comes with an iPod dock. I was trying to convince her on getting the Yamaha FHT 390, but then I found out it does not do PCM. A few months ago, I was dying to get the Onkyo sp908, but its out of our budget. Any suggestions guys?


----------



## tamahome02000

I think the sony ss2000 and sony ss2300 are exactly 400. I'm not sure how great the speakers are, or how they differ.


----------



## lostcase

Oh wow, going to go and research those. I need a decent receiver that can do audio passthrough and proper switching.


----------



## lostcase

Again, I am looking at the Onkyo SP908... need to find it cheap!


----------



## Jim Shaffer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/13643006
> 
> 
> The reason why this is possible is because any HD-DVD or BLU-RAY player *will and must be capable of* decoding the HD audio formats on board, then outputting it as PCM to any receiver that accepts it.



I don't understand. Why is it that when I look at this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050507 I see a lot of players that don't decode all formats, and some that don't decode any?


----------



## tamahome02000

Support of the hd audio formats in blue ray is optional (except pcm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details


----------



## eddy_winds

Great list!


----------



## lostcase

onkyo tx 805 is ....wow..


----------



## tamahome02000

Sony ht-is100 micro system:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665381965


----------



## Jim Shaffer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14329883
> 
> 
> Support of the hd audio formats in blue ray is optional (except pcm).
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details



We're not talking about the same thing.


The reference you cite says that all Blu-Ray players must be able to play audio from a disc with an LPCM soundtrack. I'm not questioning that.


What the starter of this thread says is that all Blu-Ray players must be able to decode the advanced audio formats to LPCM. That would appear, by the thread I cited, to be wrong, unless manufacturers are somehow getting away with calling their players Blu-Ray without adhering to the alleged requirement.


----------



## Spektricide

Decoding of all advanced codecs (DTS-MA, etc.) is not mandatory for all Blu-Ray players. What the OP is referring to is that most Blu-Ray players will decode True HD and other formats into lossless PCM and transport that to your receiver over HDMI. This is especially important for PS3 users as PCM over optical is only 2 channel. Thus, we need receivers and HTiB's that do 5-7 channel LPCM. Therefore, the need for this thread.


----------



## Doom878

I didn't even know it would do PCM 2.0 through optical. Good info.


BTW, 2 new Onkyos were announced that are highend with THX. I imagine they'll qualify for this list.


----------



## tamahome02000

 http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/24...s7100-ht-s610/


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jim Shaffer* /forum/post/14330453
> 
> 
> We're not talking about the same thing.
> 
> 
> The reference you cite says that all Blu-Ray players must be able to play audio from a disc with an LPCM soundtrack. I'm not questioning that.
> 
> 
> What the starter of this thread says is that all Blu-Ray players must be able to decode the advanced audio formats to LPCM. That would appear, by the thread I cited, to be wrong, unless manufacturers are somehow getting away with calling their players Blu-Ray without adhering to the alleged requirement.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spektricide* /forum/post/14355254
> 
> 
> Decoding of all advanced codecs (DTS-MA, etc.) is not mandatory for all Blu-Ray players. What the OP is referring to is that most Blu-Ray players will decode True HD and other formats into lossless PCM and transport that to your receiver over HDMI. This is especially important for PS3 users as PCM over optical is only 2 channel. Thus, we need receivers and HTiB's that do 5-7 channel LPCM. Therefore, the need for this thread.



lol! People are having a discussion about something I said and I dont even know about it. Find it funny. I thank Jim Shaffer for pointing that out, because this will serve for future reference. I guess by reading my first post some people might understand that I mean that every blu ray player does LPCM and not that they simply transfer the PCM. Also I thank Spektricide for clarifying. But this is what I truly meant:


MOst Blu Ray player is going to be able to DECODE the new formats and send it via PCM to whatever receiver you have. Thing is, I know for a fact there are some older blu ray players that are not capable of decoding DTS MA. For those who have one of these blu ray players, the simple solution is to buy a receiver that does process DTS MA and have the player send the signal via bitstream. THis would be the case for somebody who has a different blu ray player. However, this thread is mainly focused towards those with a PS3. As we know, PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding all formats on board, therefore our only concern would be to obtain a receiver that accepts and processes LPCM fully. Another thing that people should realize (and this thing I am about to explain is the reason why I went ahead and said that blu ray players must decode on board) is that there a lot more players that decode both DTS MA and True HD than there are Receivers. THerefore, it is inherently more common (and easier) to have a bluray player that decodes both HD formats on board connected via HDMI to a receiver that accepts LPCM with support to up to 5.1 or 7.1 channels (in this case, receiver does not necessarily have to claim to be able to decode HD formats since they would be decoded on the player); than it is to have blu ray player that fails to decode at least one format (namely DTS MA), therefore sending a bitstream signal to a receiver hooked up with analog or an optical cable (in this case, the receiver would have to claim to be able to decode HD formats because the audio signal would be decoded on the receiver)


I have *updated the first post* with some of this info and a *brand new section*, please everyone check it out and tell me what you think (new section titled *linear pcm vs. bitstream*) I also updated the WHY IS PCM IMPORTANT? section. Please check it out. Thanks all of you for your input


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doom878* /forum/post/14357197
> 
> 
> I didn't even know it would do PCM 2.0 through optical. Good info.
> 
> 
> BTW, 2 new Onkyos were announced that are highend with THX. I imagine they'll qualify for this list.



I rarely see THX on HTIB's. I will definetely be looking out for those. THanks for the info


----------



## HoustonPerson

darkleafar


Thanks so much for putting this thread together - the information is needed by all.


Recently I had the SC-BT100 in the house for about a week. Overall it was stunning (at least for us) for a HTIB. I think both the internal BluRay Player and its Audio processor meets many (most?) of the top end processing requirements. I think the BluRay portion of the unit is the exact same as that of the BD50 player (both the BD50 and the HTIB were released this last month).


The sound to our ears (with one exception below) was excellent; BluRay movies never looked or sounded better to us. Yes it is true its not the loudest system in the world, nor will the bass crack the windows; but when the Jets flewover in Cloverfield I did have to turn around to see where they went. The front sound field was excellent, voices were perfect, clearly understood (without having to turn up the volume), regardless of the soundtrack playing.


As a complete package for us we had two issues or problems.


1. The rear wireless speakers did not work without some "white noise" - a second replacement unit will be here the first of next week.

2. There is only ONE toslink "in" connector, that is a major pain, because the spliter/combined would work; except for the fact the toslink output on the Panasonic Plasma can never be turned "off". Seems to me all HTIB or AVR should have 2, 3 or 4 switched toslink "in". I need at least two and prefer three. This means that if the second unit works, I will have to get up and change toslinks cables, each time the source is changed on the HTIB


If the new unit has the exact same problem the I will go with the Panasonic BD50 Player - - - But then I need an AVR and Speakers (all wired of course), that will handle all of the audio processing and have 3 toslinks "in" AND it needs to be cheap. I do not want to give up any of the HD audio processing (either one of them).


Complete packages like Onkyo HT-S6100 sound promising; but confusing abounds as to what it will really process?


Any suggestions or insight you have on this will be welcome.


----------



## darkleafar

Well it seems like There is something I am not understanding fully..why do you insiston using toslink cables? why not HDMI? Also, the Onkyo unit you showed me looks very nice and shiny, but for me is kinda overkill. Why? because I personally would not pay the extra money for a receiver that decodes all HD audio when I can simply get a cheaper receiver that accepts LPCM and does not decode HD audio since my PS3 can do it just fine, but it is just a matter of preference. The blu ray player you are looking to get and the one you do have decodes all formats on board, right? am a little confused as to why you dont simply use one HDMI cable that would allow to switch sources without having to get up rather than getting up top switching toslink cables every time you need a different source..you know what i mean?


----------



## HoustonPerson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14368102
> 
> 
> Well it seems like There is something I am not understanding fully..why do you insiston using toslink cables? why not HDMI? Also, the Onkyo unit you showed me looks very nice and shiny, but for me is kinda overkill. Why? because I personally would not pay the extra money for a receiver that decodes all HD audio when I can simply get a cheaper receiver that accepts LPCM and does not decode HD audio since my PS3 can do it just fine, but it is just a matter of preference. The blu ray player you are looking to get and the one you do have decodes all formats on board, right? am a little confused as to why you dont simply use one HDMI cable that would allow to switch sources without having to get up rather than getting up top switching toslink cables every time you need a different source..you know what i mean?




I don't know. Meaning this stuff is so complex, it drives me nuts at times.


Well the Panasonic HTIB, has zero HDMI inputs, but the Panasonic TV 800U has 4 HDMI inputs, with only ONE toslink "out" that will pass 5.1 etc from ONLY the OTA TV Tuner.


The Sony HD recorder used with all our HD OTA stations will only output 5.1 sound via toslink (just like the Plasma 800U), even though it feeds the signal to the Plasma with the HDMI cable, it only passes plain sound to the TV (not 5.1).


I also have an older Sony DVD player, and the only way to get 5.1 out of that box is with the toslink "out" connection on the back.


So the only way I can get 5.1 sound out of those "three" boxes is with the toslink.


So there I am, up the creak without a paddle.


In my mind, why do I need HDMI, particularly with all the inputs on the back of the TV; but I do want the 5.1 sound out of everybox I have.


Please tell me there is an easier way? I am very slow at this stuff.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoustonPerson* /forum/post/14368607
> 
> 
> I don't know. Meaning this stuff is so complex, it drives me nuts at times.
> 
> 
> Well the Panasonic HTIB, has zero HDMI inputs, but the Panasonic TV 800U has 4 HDMI inputs, with only ONE toslink "out" that will pass 5.1 etc from ONLY the OTA TV Tuner.
> 
> 
> The Sony HD recorder used with all our HD OTA stations will only output 5.1 sound via toslink (just like the Plasma 800U), even though it feeds the signal to the Plasma with the HDMI cable, it only passes plain sound to the TV (not 5.1).
> 
> 
> I also have an older Sony DVD player, and the only way to get 5.1 out of that box is with the toslink "out" connection on the back.
> 
> 
> So the only way I can get 5.1 sound out of those "three" boxes is with the toslink.
> 
> 
> So there I am, up the creak without a paddle.
> 
> 
> In my mind, why do I need HDMI, particularly with all the inputs on the back of the TV; but I do want the 5.1 sound out of everybox I have.
> 
> 
> Please tell me there is an easier way? I am very slow at this stuff.



I wouldnt know what to tell you. THe best i can think of is get yourself a rceiver tha has more than one toslink connection, use the receiver as your connection center and connect your tv via HDMI to the receiver. I cant think of an easier way than that.


----------



## GoodToGo1

Is there any HDMI splitter that comes so that you can split the signal from the PS3 into two parts, one which goes into the receiver for sound and another goes to the TV for signal?


----------



## HoustonPerson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14371102
> 
> 
> I wouldnt know what to tell you. THe best i can think of is get yourself a rceiver tha has more than one toslink connection, use the receiver as your connection center and connect your tv via HDMI to the receiver. I cant think of an easier way than that.



That is very likely what I will end up doing, if the system on its way here does not work, if it does work I will just do the toslink suffle arggggg!


----------



## nethawk_2003

im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nethawk_2003* /forum/post/14374577
> 
> 
> im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical



well it depends. If you are sending a *bitstream* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a *LPCM* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question


----------



## GoodToGo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14376289
> 
> 
> well it depends. If you are sending a *bitstream* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a *LPCM* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question



I thought you cant send all those signals over optical, in order to get 5.1 DTS MA or TrueHD, you need to use HDMI only otherwise it gets downmixed to PCM 2.0...


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14376289
> 
> 
> well it depends. If you are sending a *bitstream* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a *LPCM* DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question



GoodToGo1 is correct. DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD cannot pass through an optical cable, only HDMI.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nethawk_2003* /forum/post/14374577
> 
> 
> im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical



Only you can decide if it is worth it. You don't tell us anything about what you have now other than a PS3. If you want advice then we need to know what equipment you are presently running and how you use it. Do you watch HD programming, SD programming, play movies, play games, listen to music, etc...?


----------



## nethawk_2003

ok sorry about that, to start off this home theater would be for my bedroom not my livingroom, i have a 23 inch samsung and a ps3 those would be the only things i will hook up, i have comcast so its mainly sd channels on my tv, the ps3 i use mainly for games and music, occasionally ill watch a movie or 2, i have a sony HTDDW790 in my living room with no HDMI ins or outs i have a ps3 hooked up to that through optical cable and to me it sounds ok, now im wanting to get surround sound for my ps3 in my room, and im not sure wether to spend the money on one of these or just get another HTDDW790, there about 200 bucks, one reason i havnt bout another HTDDW790 is cause i currently live with my parents, and i want a surround sound that ill take with me when i get my own place, so thats why im askin if i would notice a big difference in the optical sound or the HDMI sound


----------



## mikeyraw

ok i have a samsung pn50a650, and a ps3 80gb, and a high def cable box...my apartment is rather small and i dont want tons of wires and speakers everywhere...i am looking at a sony HT-CT100 soundbar, would this be your choice? good price, 3 hdmi, 1080p, and little cables, and from what i read it produces good sound for the size, and what it doesnt decode the ps3 will take care of......anything i should know about? im a big gamer and i watch tons of movies


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nethawk_2003* /forum/post/14379234
> 
> 
> ok sorry about that, to start off this home theater would be for my bedroom not my livingroom, i have a 23 inch samsung and a ps3 those would be the only things i will hook up, i have comcast so its mainly sd channels on my tv, the ps3 i use mainly for games and music, occasionally ill watch a movie or 2, i have a sony HTDDW790 in my living room with no HDMI ins or outs i have a ps3 hooked up to that through optical cable and to me it sounds ok, now im wanting to get surround sound for my ps3 in my room, and im not sure wether to spend the money on one of these or just get another HTDDW790, there about 200 bucks, one reason i havnt bout another HTDDW790 is cause i currently live with my parents, and i want a surround sound that ill take with me when i get my own place, so thats why im askin if i would notice a big difference in the optical sound or the HDMI sound



If you don't watch Blu-rays or HD DVDs then you won't have any sources for the HD audio codecs so running audio through an optical cable is fine. If you buy a new AVR with HDMI supported audio you shouldn't notice any difference in the sound quality between HDMI and optical unless you want to listen to the HD audio tracks available on some BDs and HD DVDs. Of course getting a better AVR and speakers may yield better audio quality.


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikeyraw* /forum/post/14379733
> 
> 
> ok i have a samsung pn50a650, and a ps3 80gb, and a high def cable box...my apartment is rather small and i dont want tons of wires and speakers everywhere...i am looking at a sony HT-CT100 soundbar, would this be your choice? good price, 3 hdmi, 1080p, and little cables, and from what i read it produces good sound for the size, and what it doesnt decode the ps3 will take care of......anything i should know about? im a big gamer and i watch tons of movies



You have a pretty decent tv and the CT100 should be adequate for a small apartment. You should find answers to your questions on the thread dedicated to the CT100. Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1026566


----------



## rexb610




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoustonPerson* /forum/post/14367446
> 
> 
> darkleafar
> 
> 
> Complete packages like Onkyo HT-S6100 sound promising; but confusing abounds as to what it will really process?
> 
> 
> Any suggestions or insight you have on this will be welcome.



The Onkyo 6100 has the the same 606 receiver but is called 667 so that should be good in terms of handling HDMI audio. Processing i believe would still be taken care of the bluray player/PS3.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Buckeye911* /forum/post/14377370
> 
> 
> GoodToGo1 is correct. DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD cannot pass through an optical cable, only HDMI.



I thought that the signal only got downgraded if you attempted LPCM, but that if you did bitstream for it to be decoded in the receiver it would be ok?


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14389093
> 
> 
> I thought that the signal only got downgraded if you attempted LPCM, but that if you did bitstream for it to be decoded in the receiver it would be ok?



I think the bandwidth is still too much. Those codecs only have about 50% compression, like flac.


----------



## keebler87

I'm going to be annoying and jump on the advice seeking bandwagon. I currently have a Onkyo SR800 (receiver is a SR550) HTiB with a Panny BD30 for BD, Comcast (HD and SD viewing is roughly 50/50), and a 360. The 360 and cable box are connected via toslink, the BD30 is connected via digital audio cable. All video signals are being sent to my TV via HDMI except the 360 which is component. I am in an apartment, everything is set up in a fairly open area (living room/dining area/kitchen all an open space). Because I'm in an apt, I can't turn the volume up too loud (don't want to be THAT neighbor...) Would it be worth it for me to upgrade to an HD audio-capable receiver? I've never heard an HD audio mix so I don't know if I'm missing out on great things with my BDs. I'm figuring that if I can sell my old receiver for $200-250 on craigslist (is that asking too much BTW?), I could upgrade my receiver for around $200. Is HD audio worth ~200 bucks? Or should I find something else to dump money into?







Thanks.


----------



## GoodToGo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14389093
> 
> 
> I thought that the signal only got downgraded if you attempted LPCM, but that if you did bitstream for it to be decoded in the receiver it would be ok?



It gets downgraded to 2.0 PCM on optical cable...


Nope, even bitstream wont work...


----------



## Grayson73

What is the cheapest HTIB with HDMI audio processing?


----------



## Buckeye911




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grayson73* /forum/post/14391132
> 
> 
> What is the cheapest HTIB with HDMI audio processing?



Check the first post of this thread and then start looking up prices. You can't really say which one is the cheapest as prices change all the time and vary from vendor to vendor.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14389109
> 
> 
> I think the bandwidth is still too much. Those codecs only have about 50% compression, like flac.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GoodToGo1* /forum/post/14389348
> 
> 
> It gets downgraded to 2.0 PCM on optical cable...
> 
> 
> Nope, even bitstream wont work...



Oh ok...thank you! You learn something new every day


----------



## Doom878

I say the CT100 is the cheapest at around $280 through Wal Mart. Then again it's only a bar and sub.


----------



## GoodToGo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *keebler87* /forum/post/14389178
> 
> 
> I'm going to be annoying and jump on the advice seeking bandwagon. I currently have a Onkyo SR800 (receiver is a SR550) HTiB with a Panny BD30 for BD, Comcast (HD and SD viewing is roughly 50/50), and a 360. The 360 and cable box are connected via toslink, the BD30 is connected via digital audio cable. All video signals are being sent to my TV via HDMI except the 360 which is component. I am in an apartment, everything is set up in a fairly open area (living room/dining area/kitchen all an open space). Because I'm in an apt, I can't turn the volume up too loud (don't want to be THAT neighbor...) Would it be worth it for me to upgrade to an HD audio-capable receiver? I've never heard an HD audio mix so I don't know if I'm missing out on great things with my BDs. I'm figuring that if I can sell my old receiver for $200-250 on craigslist (is that asking too much BTW?), I could upgrade my receiver for around $200. Is HD audio worth ~200 bucks? Or should I find something else to dump money into?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Its kind of hard to give opinions when we dont know what speakers you have, how many movies do you see etc etc. The Panny BD will bitstream all the lossless formats so it is possible to take advantage of all the new formats.

*IMO*, if you are not a serious audiophile or dont see that many movies or have a bit of a modest speaker setup then there is no point to upgrade the setup. You will be ok with what you have. However if you take a look at the aspect of trading in your new receiver, its hard to say. In the future your receiver may not be worth much given that more and more receivers will process the new lossless formats. So if you are getting that much now, better jump ship and lose out less than later on when you wont get anything for your receiver. Alternatively, if you can use your present receiver else where without selling it, then wait for the prices to drop and then jump on some HDMI receivers. Of course, this is all my opnion and the final decision should be yours.


----------



## HoustonPerson

Ok Guys really need some help here. So anyone that knows this stuff please chime in.


I currently have the Panasonic HTIB SC-BT100. Basically the same player as the BD50. All around this HTIB is excellent, except for two major areas, the wireless rear speakers are not going to work in my house, white noise, distortion, and a clicking sound in the right rear speaker. I have spent a couple of weeks trying to find the cause, and have had two of these units and they both respond the same way. So a wireless system will not work here.


One of the things I do like about the HTIB I have, is both the DTS HD (both 5.1 and 7.1) and the Dolby HD.I do not want to give that up. (The other major weakness with the BT100 it only has one toslink in, and I need at least two - One from the 800U Plasma and one from the Sony HD recorder).


So I will be going with the BD50 playerbut I need a HTIB or AVR and speakers that go with it for a 100% match. I can tell that a lot of people are having the same problem.


So far from what I have seen about 90% or more of the AVRs and HTIB, will not handle all that the BD50 can put out (like the HD sound) and/or they mess up the video processing badly?


And unfortunately Panasonic is keeping their line of AVR's in Europe?


Is the Onkyo HT-S6100 100% compatible with the BD50? (it is about $150-$200 above my price range)

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=Systems&p=i 


Are there any other HTIB that work with the BD50, that will process ALL the video and sound correctly? Or good AVR's that are a 100% match to the BD50?


Again the HD Audio is a "must" and the two toslink "in" would be nice. If the unit can not process the DTS HD and Dolby HD; then it will not work for me.


Thanks!


----------



## GoodToGo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoustonPerson* /forum/post/14398078
> 
> 
> Ok Guys really need some help here. So anyone that knows this stuff please chime in.
> 
> 
> I currently have the Panasonic HTIB SC-BT100. Basically the same player as the BD50. All around this HTIB is excellent, except for two major areas, the wireless rear speakers are not going to work in my house, white noise, distortion, and a clicking sound in the right rear speaker. I have spent a couple of weeks trying to find the cause, and have had two of these units and they both respond the same way. So a wireless system will not work here.
> 
> 
> One of the things I do like about the HTIB I have, is both the DTS HD (both 5.1 and 7.1) and the Dolby HD.I do not want to give that up. (The other major weakness with the BT100 it only has one toslink in, and I need at least two - One from the 800U Plasma and one from the Sony HD recorder).
> 
> 
> So I will be going with the BD50 playerbut I need a HTIB or AVR and speakers that go with it for a 100% match. I can tell that a lot of people are having the same problem.
> 
> 
> So far from what I have seen about 90% or more of the AVRs and HTIB, will not handle all that the BD50 can put out (like the HD sound) and/or they mess up the video processing badly?
> 
> 
> And unfortunately Panasonic is keeping their line of AVR's in Europe?
> 
> 
> Is the Onkyo HT-S6100 100% compatible with the BD50? (it is about $150-$200 above my price range)
> 
> http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...ss=Systems&p=i
> 
> 
> Are there any other HTIB that work with the BD50, that will process ALL the video and sound correctly? Or good AVR's that are a 100% match to the BD50?
> 
> 
> Again the HD Audio is a "must" and the two toslink "in" would be nice. If the unit can not process the DTS HD and Dolby HD; then it will not work for me.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The S6100 has receiver 667 which should transfer HDMI. The link to the specs confirms it and so does the bold statement in the first post "**All Onkyo receivers models SR6XX and above will be able (or already are able) to handle HDMI audio.*" Please note that the high end formats can ONLY be transferred by HDMI cable and not optical/spidif. Hope that helped a bit...


----------



## HoustonPerson

Thanks GoodToGo........I saw a few AVRs at Frys today (about 5 or 6), that do the HD audio. Of course the S6100 is not in stock yet. I did see another Onkyo that had the same set of speakers; but of course there is "no-way" to audition them in a loud store. In the store playing on the shelf they did not sound good at all; but then nothing sounded good in the store.


Do you know if there is an online manual to the receiver in the S6100 set; I have not been able to locate it.


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Grayson73* /forum/post/14391132
> 
> 
> What is the cheapest HTIB with HDMI audio processing?



I think the sony ss2000, ss2300, & sf2300 are around 400. Samsung as720 is 500-600.


----------



## phoenix79

I would like to make a suggestion that this topic also keeps a list of HDMI PCM 2.0 receivers/HTiB systems. That way we can know for sure its been talked about and confirmed one way or another.


----------



## HoustonPerson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14400552
> 
> 
> I think the sony ss2000, ss2300, & sf2300 are around 400. Samsung as720 is 500-600.



I looked up the Sony's listed. Best I can tell they do not process Dolby TureHD or DTS MA HD. I have not looked up the Samsung yet


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoustonPerson* /forum/post/14406036
> 
> 
> I looked up the Sony's listed. Best I can tell they do not process Dolby TureHD or DTS MA HD. I have not looked up the Samsung yet



They do 5.1 pcm.


----------



## GoodToGo1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoustonPerson* /forum/post/14400490
> 
> 
> Thanks GoodToGo........I saw a few AVRs at Frys today (about 5 or 6), that do the HD audio. Of course the S6100 is not in stock yet. I did see another Onkyo that had the same set of speakers; but of course there is "no-way" to audition them in a loud store. In the store playing on the shelf they did not sound good at all; but then nothing sounded good in the store.
> 
> 
> Do you know if there is an online manual to the receiver in the S6100 set; I have not been able to locate it.



Just an opinion that if they dont sound good, then the chances of them sounding good at home are not that great. You would be better off with a better system...My $.02....Tried locating the manual, couldnt find it...


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tamahome02000* /forum/post/14406040
> 
> 
> They do 5.1 pcm.



they dont do 7.1?


----------



## tamahome02000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/14409223
> 
> 
> they dont do 7.1?



Only the samsung as720, but it comes with 5 speakers. For some wierd reason it can't do pcm 5.1. It always displays 7.1.


----------



## jmtheo

How come the Yamaha RX-V463 and RX-V563 haven't got a mention? I thought these AVRs were 5.1 and 7.1 LPCM compatible too?


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmtheo* /forum/post/14441536
> 
> 
> How come the Yamaha RX-V463 and RX-V563 haven't got a mention? I thought these AVRs were 5.1 and 7.1 LPCM compatible too?



I am doing my best to keep the list up..the data loss affected me too..i had some new things up. I am working on MS EXCEL type version of the list which will have price ranges, 5.1 or 7.1 classifications, among other things. All I ask for is patience. Ill get it done folks, promise.


----------



## lostcase

Add Onkyo HT-S6100 to the main list.


----------



## grab01d

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these:


Denon

DHT-789BA htib


Pioneer

VSX-1018AH-K Receiver


Onkyo

HT-S6100 htib


Harman Kardon

CP 60 / 65 htib


I'm leaning toward the Onkyo S6100...maybe the price will come down a tad now that its been released.


----------



## hometech99

Sony new HT-IS100 does LPCM (2CH/5.1CH/7.1CH) thru HDMI - although a 5.1 system


----------



## jswhitfield

My Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV handles 5.1/7.1 LPCM over HDMI. I use it with a PS3 and an Oppo 980 for DVD-A and SACD. I also used it with an Oppo 970 before upgrading to the 980 and moving the 970 to the bedroom. The 70 series receivers only support up to 1080i, but the 80 and 90 series that were manufactured after mine support LPCM with 1080p.


----------



## cumbaya19

add onkyo 6100 and 7100


----------



## toslat

Comments/suggestions on the format of the list:

1. Brand names should be bolded and/or capitalized.

2. The list should be primarily AVR based. If the AVR is also part of an HTiB set, then the model number(s) of the HTiB set(s) should be included in parenthesis after the AVR model.

3. Under each brand, the list could be ordered in a common way e.g. ascending, release date etc


Even as is, it's still a great resource. Kudos.


----------



## Hatcher

I did research on Friday about AVR's here on AVS, but unfortunately did not find this thread, so I was piecing information together from all over. I had the understanding that if a receiver could process 7.1 LPCM from my PS3 that I would get loseless HD audio even if the receiver does not decode it (have the stamps







), but I went to two stores and both of them told me otherwise, they said that the receiver would still have to decode it and that the PS3 is only able to read it. Anyways, great thread, it really re-confirmed what I was thinking and then some.


----------



## darkleafar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hatcher* /forum/post/14574039
> 
> 
> I did research on Friday about AVR's here on AVS, but unfortunately did not find this thread, so I was piecing information together from all over. I had the understanding that if a receiver could process 7.1 LPCM from my PS3 that I would get loseless HD audio even if the receiver does not decode it (have the stamps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), but I went to two stores and both of them told me otherwise, they said that the receiver would still have to decode it and that the PS3 is only able to read it. Anyways, great thread, it really re-confirmed what I was thinking and then some.



You know the attitude that you take when a 5 year old comes up to you and assures you he has seen the real santa? That is how you should behave and this is the attitude you should always take towards Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, and whatnot's sales associates. Dont get me wrong, I have found one or two that know what they are talking about, but most of them have no idea. MOst of them will say whatever just to make a sale. The PS3 decodes the HD formats, and then sends them LPCM format to the receiver. THe objective before a signal is able to come out of speaker is to turn it into PCM. IN other words, the end result is the same whether it was decoded in the PS3 or in the receiver. "PS3 is only able to read it.." lmao


----------



## PrutikJr

I wonder why would sony include bitstream option at all on PS3 if linear pcm this much better?


----------



## phoenix79

I would like this list to also contain _all_ systems that accept HDMI audio.


So is there a chance that another category could be created that will list receivers which accept regular HDMI audio but cannot support HD-Audio (well down convert to PCM 2.0)?


Like I've said before, it has the added benefit of allowing people to know for sure the system has been talked about and confirmed one way or another.


----------



## ruffhyder

I'm in the market for a budget HTiB that will go well with my 80 GB PS3 and Sony KDL46Z4100. I don't know much about home theatre systems but am looking for a 5.1 system that works well with my setup and takes HDMI input (so that's what lead me to this thread).


I'm leaning towards the Sony HT-SF2300 mainly because it fulfills my requirements and because I assume it is a sony product so it will work well with my system... it is a little pricey tho, and something similar in the $200 range would be great! any other recommendations?


----------



## tamahome02000

Sony ht7200 or samsung as720. Can't guarantee the sammy will pass the new hdcp tests though.


----------



## surma884




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *PrutikJr* /forum/post/14607826
> 
> 
> I wonder why would sony include bitstream option at all on PS3 if linear pcm this much better?



It's an option. You can either let PS3 decode it (PS3 will output LPCM) or if you want to let your receiver decode it (PS3 outputs bitstream and receiver decodes it to LPCM). It's not about LPCM better than bitstream, it's about who decodes the bitstream.


----------



## samsurd2

^^^ The PS3 *WILL NOT* bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA from a Blu-ray disc. It will of course bitstream the legacy DD and DTS from regular DVDs.


----------



## BoostGTR

Hey guys, just wondering if the Sony HT-SS1300 would work?


----------



## tamahome02000

Yep.

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hcs-ci...-kit/ht-ss1300


----------



## BoostGTR

Grand







thought it would noticed the 2000 was basically the same spec just in a different shiny box!


----------



## surma884




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *samsurd2* /forum/post/14820798
> 
> 
> ^^^ The PS3 *WILL NOT* bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA from a Blu-ray disc. It will of course bitstream the legacy DD and DTS from regular DVDs.



That's good to know. I did not know that. I'll be buying a PS3 in the future.


----------



## TpaTallMan

Hi all-


Pardon me if this has since been posted, but have recently moved from the US to Sydney Australia, and looking to somewhat replicate what I had back in the US.


Looking for a place in Sydney that sells a HTIB system, hopefully one that was listed in this thread's initial listing, that also has HDMI audio processing (5.1 or 7.1 either). The list posted in this thread is a great start, but I don't know if the models listed, especially the Onkyo HTIB models, are available in Australia or not. If they are, does anyone know of where I can find them in Sydney? Only been here less than a week, so still not too sure where to look (checked out Bing Lee, Dick Smith's Powerhouse to name a few, but no Onkyo so far)...


Thanks so much for any advice...!


Cheers-


Craig


----------



## Heepspo

The 6100/7100 and up look nice. The 6100 might work perfect for me.


Anyone have some personal experiences with the 6100 or any others?


Personal opinions or knowledge would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## samsurd2

How about this for an idea? Try reading the several pertinent threads on this forum's first page in which the title includes "6100" and/or "7100". Jeez!


----------



## Heepspo

You have more posts than me... which means you're smarter.


I, on the other hand, missed that information. i usually just read and learn without asking questions (notice the 6 posts i've made in over a year).


The main reason I don't post much is because of people like you who FREAK OUT when someone misses something. LOL.


whatever.


----------



## samsurd2

^^^Suggesting that you do something so obvious as what I did doesn't mean I'm smarter or that I "FREAK OUT". Your reaction could, however, reflect on your powers of observation, reading comprehension, desire to do things for yourself, etc. LOL and, as you said, whatever.


----------



## simonfudge

I have been looking through the forums and find them very useful and I am learning a lot form it, thank you all. Forgive me if this question has already been answered. I'm looking at Yamaha HTR-6140B as being the avr that I can plug my PS3 into and get the full benefit of the Blu-ray audio. I will be using HDMI into the avr and then from there to the hdtv (Sammy 40A550). Also running a component cable from the hdtv box (it doesn't have HDMI) into the avr and connecting that to the hdtv. The Yamaha does come in a HTIB config in my area, and that is what I'm looking for as it will be fine for my setup. Does anybody have any experience with that model? It doesn't say that it is "pass through" so I'm thinking that it should be able to handle the audio output from the PS3. Also, in that configuration (everything plugged into the avr and then from the avr into the tv) will I need to have the avr on all the time or will the PS3 audio work on the tv (just to play a game for instance)? Thanks for any advice. There is so much information on these forums and I would appreciate any assistance.


----------



## chi_town_boi

I am in the market right now to buy an hdtv and a home theater setup. I have a ps3 and was thinking about buying a samsung 550 series or higher (or maybe some sony equivalent) along with the sony HT-SS2300 HTIB setup. I realize that with this surround sound system, I will be able to do linear PCM via the hdmi input on the receiver and get the most out of my ps3. My question is how would I hook up my hd dvr box from comcast? Do I hook it to the receiver like the ps3 and then use the output hdmi from the receiver to the tv or do I have to hook the dvr box to the tv and then use an optical out from the tv to the receiver? Also do I have to adjust any settings on the dvr box to get the best sound quality out of it? My ps3 is my main blu-ray player and I will be gaming alot. I was just looking for some guidance on this because when it comes to home theater I am a noob







Also if any of you have suggestions for better equipment/setup that isn't too expensive, my ears are open. Thanks.


----------



## BlackLightning3

you should use hdmi to hook to receiver just like ps3 then use hdmi out to TV from receiver. on the DVR go into the settings and set the audio to output hdmi


----------



## pfalvey

I am considering getting an HTiB, but am not quite sure if it would be a good investment for how I'd use it. I have a ps3 and mainly use it for games and some SD-DVD's, but mainly for games. I currently have a Sony str-de845 receiver, which is about 8 years old, does have 5.1, but no trueHD or anything real modern. The ps3 is currently hooked up to my receiver thru optical.


I've been looking at the Onkyo TX-SR5100, Sony SS-2300 and the CT-100 HTiB. I'm only looking to spend $400 or less. I'd love a new toy, however, if I don't notice a significant sound improvement due to my viewing/gaming habits, maybe it would be better to save my money. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Artwood

So what is the greatest HTIB of all times irrespective of price?


----------



## Paul NJ

To darkleafar,

Kudos on tackling this subject. I'm new to the HT game and I found it very helpful.

I do have one small quible: You state "In other words, Linear PCM has already been decoded and is ready to be outputted through the speakers; whereas Bitstream is a virgin signal and must be decoded at some point......". In the interest of lessening confusion I think that it should read something like "In other words, Linear PCM has already been decoded and is ready to be *converted from digital to analog and* outputted through the speakers; whereas Bitstream is a virgin signal and must be decoded at some point.....". Small point that I personally think adds clarity to a confusing subject.

Thanks for the time and effort you have put into this sticky.

Just bought a Sammy HL67A750 and I love it, plenty of other stuff to acquire.

Regards,

Paul in North Jersey


----------



## zengel442




> Quote:
> So what is the greatest HTIB of all times irrespective of price?


You gotta favorite??


----------



## gregt777




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zengel442* /forum/post/15449639
> 
> You gotta favorite??



I have read very favorable reviews on the LinnClassik Movie. It seems to have everything you need, and you have Linn`s quality and craftmanship.


Only thing is that I have not had the opportunity to hearit. How about anyone else?


----------



## B17Rex

First off, I am not an expert on audio/video things, so forgive me if the answer should be obvious. I have an older HDTV (Panasonic PT53WX54J) that does not have any HDMI inputs, only a single DVI input. A new TV is not possible at the moment, and I am looking at some of the new HTIB's. I am guessing the way I need to hook everything up, I would need to run HDMI cables from the DVD player, and the cable box to the receiver, let the receiver process the sound and have the sound coming from the receivers speakers, then run the video from the HDMI out of the receiver to the DVI input on the TV through a conversion cable? I would love to get a new TV, but that is not possible right now, so hopefully the previously mentioned connection setup will work.


*EDIT* Also the TV only supports up to 1080i, will the HTIB's mentioned in this thread output 1080i video rather than full 1080p?


Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!


Brian


----------



## MattNCSU




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkleafar* /forum/post/13643006
> 
> 
> Denon
> -AVR-2308CI
> 
> -AVR-788
> 
> -AVR-1908
> 
> 
> Samsung
> 
> -AS720
> 
> 
> Sony
> 
> -HT-7200DH (Available May)
> 
> -HT-CT100
> 
> -HT-SS2300 (Coming this summer)
> 
> -HT-SF2000
> 
> -HT-SS2000
> -STR-DG720
> 
> -STR-DG820
> 
> -STR-DG910
> 
> -STR-DG920
> 
> 
> Onkyo
> 
> -HT-SP907
> 
> -HT-SP908
> -TX-SR605
> 
> -TX-SR705
> 
> -TX-SR875 **All Onkyo receivers models SR6XX and above will be able (or already are able) to handle HDMI audio.
> *
> 
> Bose
> 
> 
> 
> Harman Kardon
> -AVR-247
> 
> -AVR-347
> 
> -AVR-254/354/754 (coming spring/summer 2008)
> 
> 
> Yamaha
> -RX-V661
> -RX-V663
> 
> 
> [/b]



Does anyone know of a receiver/HTIB that has come out in the last 8 months that could be added to the list? I am just beginning to do some research into HTIBs since my full-sized system has been banished to the man-cave/basement in our new house. If I find any that support HDMI audio decoding I'll be sure to post them here.


In a semi-related note, can most new HT receivers output everything (regardless of input type) on HDMI? I'd like to run a single HDMI cable to my TV and let the receiver handle switching between HDMI/Component/Composite signals


----------



## plut82

Do any of the listed AVR / HTIB support wireless speaker setups? I've researched all of their tech spec pages on Amazon but am not sure if I overlooked anything with the similar model numbers. Is wireless frowned upon?


----------



## Tulpa

They can be hooked to a Rocketfish wireless kit. Almost any AVR can.


The only ones that include wireless from the factory are usually the Panasonic HTIB with integrated disc players (be it DVD, or Blu-Ray, or whatever) and similar models from other makes. Anything with a standalone receiver equivalent will most likely not include wireless, but that's where the Rocketfish comes in. There are other kits from other brands, too, if you look around.


Wireless has its issues (interference, potential sound quality problems, etc.) but it'll probably improve in time. If I had to have wireless, I'd get a Rocketfish and a good AVR from Denon, Onkyo, etc., rather than mess with those integrated jobs.


----------



## plut82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tulpa* /forum/post/16212512
> 
> 
> They can be hooked to a Rocketfish wireless kit. Almost any AVR can.
> 
> 
> The only ones that include wireless from the factory are usually the Panasonic HTIB with integrated disc players (be it DVD, or Blu-Ray, or whatever) and similar models from other makes.



Thanks for the reply. I own the Panasonic HTIB wireless system and am pleased with the quality and zero interference (I have my wireless router literally next to it) with the exception that it doesn't decode DTS through the optical input. Major bummer.


I ask because I'll eventually upgrade to one of these listed receivers but will not be able to drill holes or have cables running around.


I haven't been able to find out how the Rocketfish connections work.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *plut82* /forum/post/16212786
> 
> 
> I haven't been able to find out how the Rocketfish connections work.


 http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ar-speaker-kit


----------



## plut82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/16212864
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...ar-speaker-kit



Excellent. Much appreciated.


It is underpowered in relation to the Panasonic rear wireless amp.


Rocketfish: 25w x 2

Panasonic: 34w x 2


And of course severely underpowered in relation to direct output of these receivers.


Denon and Yamaha: 90 - 130w (8 ohm) per surround channel


----------



## jasonx2k23

how do you guys see the samsung 720? are there any more uptodate samsung models out that can do lpcm?


----------



## plut82




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jasonx2k23* /forum/post/16228999
> 
> 
> how do you guys see the samsung 720? are there any more uptodate samsung models out that can do lpcm?



Are you also wondering the difference between the ht-as720s vs. ht-as720s*t* ? I certainly am.


----------



## Jumpman415

Hey,


New member here. After hearing fabulous reviews on the SS2300, I decided to buy it. However, I am not getting the satisfaction and quality of sound as most of you. As a first time HTIB owner with low expectations, I am not impressed at all.


While watching Iron-Man and King Kong (both Blu-Ray) on my PS3, the sound level is still not that loud at volume 30+! Even at volume 30, my small 13x13 room is no where near shaking during action scenes. The volume at 30+ is comparable to the max tv volume, and my tv is not that loud.


Everything (PS3, Xbox360, HD Cable box) is connected through Monster M series HDMI cables. There is sound coming from all 5 speakers as well.


Only at max level 40, do I get the rumbling feeling, but many of you claim that your room/floor is rumbling even at volume 20-25.


I've tried auto and manually adjusting the settings on the receiver but still no luck. I've manually adjusted the audio output setting on the PS3 also to PCM 96.


When watching television on my Comcast HD Cable Box on max level 40, it is no where near rumbling watching the Celtics-Bulls playoff game in the 4th quarter.


I do not expect these 5.1's to sound like I'm at a rock or rap concert, but these have been really disappointing to someone with low expectations.


Lastly, I do not have any hearing problems nor am I an audiophile, but what is wrong with my SS2300 system? What am I doing wrong? Is there anything I can do to get similar results to the rest of you?


Btw, my system is as follows:

Samsung LN40A550 - HDMI

SS2300 - HDMI

PS3 - HDMI


----------



## glennie_19

Hey All,


Just wondering if the Onkyo HT-S5100 would work for HDMI audio processing so I can finally make use of the DTS HD and Dolby True HD from my PS3. I read the manual online but still don't know for sure.


Any help would be great!


Thanks!


----------



## samsurd2

IIRC, you need to go to the 6100 or some non-Onkyo equivalent to get a receiver that processes audio received via HDMI.


----------



## jortiz82

I live in a apt. was looking for a sound system to go with my samsung 750 direct tv and ps3 system in my living room that is 20x13 rectangular shaped and my tv set up is placed in corner. i was looking into the ct 500 and the is 100 any opinions?


----------



## Nicksterr

Does anyone know if the new Onkyo HT-RC160 supports HDMI audio? I know the TX-SR607 does but it's ~$500 and the TX-SR606 is hard to find new.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nicksterr* /forum/post/16931513
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the new Onkyo HT-RC160 supports HDMI audio? I know the TX-SR607 does but it's ~$500 and the TX-SR606 is hard to find new.


 http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i 


If you see the phrase:

"TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding"

Or the symbols, it will do what you're asking.


----------



## Nicksterr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/16931808
> 
> http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i
> 
> 
> If you see the phrase:
> 
> "TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding"
> 
> Or the symbols, it will do what you're asking.



The TX-SR507 model says it supports those audio formats but the receiver does not infact support HDMI audio and video processing...


----------



## ickysmits

I'm not familiar with the 507 but if they say it features TrueHD then it handles audio over HDMI. Are people reporting that this is not true?


Video processing is another thing...


----------



## afrogt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nicksterr* /forum/post/16931923
> 
> 
> The TX-SR507 model says it supports those audio formats but the receiver does not infact support HDMI audio and video processing...



this thread says it does trueHD audio decoding.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=onkyo+507


----------



## Morac




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ickysmits* /forum/post/16931808
> 
> http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i
> 
> 
> If you see the phrase:
> 
> "TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding"
> 
> Or the symbols, it will do what you're asking.



I don't think that's quite accurate. Just because it can handle TrueHD/DTS-HD" via HDMI doesn't mean it can handle 5.1/7.1 PCM via HDMI.


That said I'm pretty sure all receivers can handle 5.1/7.1 PCM these days, especially Onkyo receivers.


----------



## ickysmits




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Morac* /forum/post/16934217
> 
> 
> I don't think that's quite accurate. Just because it can handle TrueHD/DTS-HD" via HDMI doesn't mean it can handle 5.1/7.1 PCM via HDMI.
> 
> 
> That said I'm pretty sure all receivers can handle 5.1/7.1 PCM these days, especially Onkyo receivers.



I'd be curious to know an example where that's the case. It could be true but I only recall receivers that could handle HDMI audio the other way around; they could support PCM via HDMI but didn't have the ability to decode the lossless codecs internally. Every receiver I know of that can decode TrueHD/DTS-HD internally can also handle PCM via HDMI.


Though, like you said, it's pretty much a moot point these days.


----------



## joebloggs13

The sony hts-s360 says that in mode PLII MV mode that it will decode Dolby pro logic II surround into 5.1 via HDMI. Does that mean it makes the list?


----------



## dvd_musician

I've been doing alot of searching, and most of the list is discontinued nowadays. anyone got some more current info?


I just bought some Jensen 5.1 surround for $600 Australian, and now I'm looking for a 5.1ch AVR with LPCM over HDMI to play blurays via ps3 and still cant find much concrete info. what'd be my cheapest solution?


thanks


----------



## gohdtv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nicksterr* /forum/post/16931513
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the new Onkyo HT-RC160 supports HDMI audio? I know the TX-SR607 does but it's ~$500 and the TX-SR606 is hard to find new.



Any of the Onkyos that show "HDMI Version - V1.3a Repeater" support video + audio. The HT-RC160 specs show this.


Regards


----------



## johnny.death

Also, as to the original point of this post, wrt the PS3 not being able to output Bitstream audio, as of this last week, with the latest firmware upgrade, the PS3 can _now_ output bitstream audio, making this post kind of out-dated. But, I believe that, as a recent poster said, most receivers can input lcpm nowadays with no problem. I'm looking at the Onkyo HT-S7200 for use with my PS3 and iPhone.


----------



## Morac




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnny.death* /forum/post/17175108
> 
> 
> Also, as to the original point of this post, wrt the PS3 not being able to output Bitstream audio, as of this last week, with the latest firmware upgrade, the PS3 can _now_ output bitstream audio, making this post kind of out-dated. But, I believe that, as a recent poster said, most receivers can input lcpm nowadays with no problem. I'm looking at the Onkyo HT-S7200 for use with my PS3 and iPhone.



Only the new PS3 slim can output bitstream audio, so the topic is still valid for owners of the old fatter PS3 models.


----------



## johnny.death

My mistake, I apologize for the confusion! Thank you for correcting me.


----------



## Simovixet

The Sony HT-DDW7500 does 8 channel LPCM via HDMI.


----------



## rjpinyou

are there ANY panasonic HTiB that can do HDMI audio processing???


----------



## johnny.death




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rjpinyou* /forum/post/17289195
> 
> 
> are there ANY panasonic HTiB that can do HDMI audio processing???



Why do you need a panasonic? There are lots of great brands out there..... ???


----------



## pucknut

is there a more current htib, besides the sony htss 360, for near the same price?.....approx $230 at amazon. .......being a newbie, am i to understand that the 360 with process BOTH audio and video via hdmi?.........tks in advance


----------



## darkleafar

Good evening everyone, and thank for you keeping this thread going. I regret to say that I simply do not have the time to keep keep the list updated. I am married, am a full time student, work full time, etc. However, I hold this forum in high regard and I now that my onkyo 6100 receiver is going out on me I myself need this list updated. Here is what I propose:


I need somebody who is willing to take over the task of putting together the list, and keeping it updated. That person would send me an e mail with the updated list, and I would format it and put it on here. While I dont have time to do the extensive research, I can at least do the posting. If anybody is interested, PM me.


----------



## rocketwidget

Please be gentle, I'm a audio newbie!


Why isn't the Panasonic SC-HT56 included on this list? According to this review at Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/review/R185KZI...cm_cr_rdp_perm 

it can decode PCM.


Also, the manual on page 9 says:
_Notes on digital input

This unit can decode the following signals:

PCM, including PCM with sampling frequencies of 96 kHz

or 88.2 kHz_


The unit has 2 HDMI in and 1 HDMI out.


For reference, the manual can be downloaded here:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e.../model.SC-HT56 


Thanks!


EDIT 2/8/2010: I now own both the Panasonic SC-HT56 and the Panasonic DMP-BD60 (blu ray player that decodes DTS-MA and DOLBY-TRUEHD). The SC-HT56 can decode PCM. I really like the system, for the value and features (5.1 setup, 2 HDMI in, good sound quality according to my newbie ears, viera link if you have other Panasonic components, standard cables, paid ~$210). Too bad it seems to be discontinued.


----------



## phoenix79

Bose just released new systems the Lifestyle T20, V25 & V35 (all 5.1 systems)
http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/...lass/index.jsp 


They "_can decode Dolby Digital TrueHD and uncompressed multichannel PCM from Blu-ray Disc Players. DTS-MA (master audio) contains only the 5.1 “core.”_ "
http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/...5-systems.html


----------



## nenito2k

just wanted to Add:


the yamaha S400 also accepts PCM HD lossless audio from BD players. And today i just found out that yamaha released an update making this system (that came out 6 months ago) 3D ready!!!!


----------



## mrmanana

Hey AV Masters


I have about a grand I would like to spend on a 5.1 system for my home theater.

Can anyone recommend a system that has a 1000 or more watts, blu ray, Netflix streaming, iphone/ipod compatibility and here is the kicker..... wireless rear speakers?


I am not averse to going to a component system and buying a BD player with Netflix but a networked receiver with DLNA is very important for content sharing.

I have been looking at the LG LHB975 and I really like it.


Add the WWW and HTTP infront of this bad boy

lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/home-theater-systems/LG-home-theater-system-LHB975.jsp 


Anyone have experience with LG, this unit or Wireless Rears?


Thanks for your help.


----------



## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrmanana* /forum/post/19329109
> 
> 
> Hey AV Masters
> 
> 
> I have about a grand I would like to spend on a 5.1 system for my home theater.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a system that has a 1000 or more watts, blu ray, Netflix streaming, iphone/ipod compatibility and here is the kicker..... wireless rear speakers?
> 
> 
> I am not averse to going to a component system and buying a BD player with Netflix but a networked receiver with DLNA is very important for content sharing.
> 
> I have been looking at the LG LHB975 and I really like it.
> 
> 
> Add the WWW and HTTP infront of this bad boy
> 
> lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/home-theater-systems/LG-home-theater-system-LHB975.jsp
> 
> 
> Anyone have experience with LG, this unit or Wireless Rears?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help.



NO!!!!! Get a separate based system which has its own receiver, speaker set and, separate Blu-ray player You will get far superior sound quality and a system that is no disposable and something you can grow with


----------



## mrmanana

Do you have any recommendations?


I have been doing a lot of research for HTiB's, havent had a component stereo/HT in almost a decade.


----------



## crazyrob425




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrmanana* /forum/post/19329678
> 
> 
> Do you have any recommendations?
> 
> 
> I have been doing a lot of research for HTiB's, havent had a component stereo/HT in almost a decade.



Something like the Denon DHT-591ba


My best suggestion is create a whole new thread in this forum with your budget and the size of your room as well as your specific wants and we will be able to accommodate you that way

_Not many people check this thread so your best starting your own._


----------



## Kingcarcas

Is the OP still around? Might want to update the thread..


----------



## djalali59

very helpful thread. i will definitely use it to make my new system.


----------



## djalali59

Also, what is the best HTIB out there nowadays that goes toe to toe against a high end setup? I am wondering which would be more cost-effective.


----------



## lostcase

HTiB's have come a long way. They are a great way to start, but eventually, its best to go with separates. Good luck.


----------

