# 5 Bad DIY Theaters



## Steve Crowe

*5 Bad DIY Theaters*

By CE Pro Editors
*People call pros for a reason. Here are five examples when that call could have made a major difference.*


You have to love the do-it-yourself community. They certainly are a passionate bunch.


We have seen some phenomenal examples of what the DIYer can do. And we've seen some, well, not so great examples.


While we hate to pooh-pooh someone's passion project, there is a reason that people call in the pros. Screen sizes, wire management, angles, adjustments and even decor; it's a lot to think about. That's why so many choose to pay someone to do it. They want to get the job done right - the first time.


Of course, some people love to tweak until the room or system is perfect. Here are five examples of DIYers that didn't think that was really necessary.


 

*The Floor is Not a Rack*

This looks like a fun little setup. That mess on the floor? Not so much. There are wires just about everywhere, including going up the corner wall and out to the middle of the ceiling. Aside from a cleaner installation, it would have been nice if the speakers weren't so squished into this small space.

*A Hoarder's Home Theater*

Remember the old saying that too much is never enough? That does not apply to home theater. This homeowner had a few too many tchotchkes to work into his space.

* Click here to continue. *


----------



## deepstang

Ummm....not to be rude, but I think I have seen MUCH worse from posters.


Craigs pictures in this link BEATS all these 5 "BAD DIY Theaters". BTW, you should read the QUOTE that Craig was responding to. To see a picture of that guys room would also take the lead.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16700727


----------



## Hakka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deepstang* /forum/post/18607192
> 
> 
> Ummm....not to be rude, but I think I have seen MUCH worse from posters.
> 
> 
> Craigs pictures in this link BEATS all these 5 "BAD DIY Theaters". BTW, you should read the QUOTE that Craig was responding to. To see a picture of that guys room would also take the lead.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16700727



That wins by a mile!


I got a good laugh out of the quote in that thread too.


Hakka.


----------



## lanced

These are UGLY theaters but may not be "BAD" theaters.


I don't want to be picky on words, but BAD implies there is something wrong with the quality of the HT, mainly PQ and Sound. Except for the cases of speakers mounting, which by position, we can tell they will produce bad sound quality. However we can not say if these theaters are BAD on the video department.


If anything, these pictures tell me only one thing: these owners are not very organized. So even if they hire the professional to do it, after a while, the HT may return to the same look again.


Much like most stuffs, the maintenance is the hard part and I don't think the professional installer can help with that.


BTW, I doubt that these owners care much about decoration


----------



## tony123

I read this, if nothing else, than to make sure mine wasn't on the list!










I think I'm on the right path now, but who among us haven't been guilty of most of the above?


----------



## GodsLabRat

Also, factor in that not every HT is a finished work. In fact, very few are. Sometimes, you need to make do with the equipment you have, rather than give up your passion entirely. I dread the idea that HT should be an exclusive club for people with unlimited time and money to pour into a hobby... it would just reinforce the notion that we're either stereophile geeks in our parents' basements, or unmarried yuppies with excessive disposable income.


I'm really not certain of the point to this article. It might be useful as a "What NOT to do", but instead it sends the message "Hey, let's laugh at these people!".


----------



## tony123

Amen Aaron! I thought the same. Don't know why I didn't express it....


My hat is off to anyone that pursues the passion. Regardless of equipment, room budget, or even the amount of junk cluttering the room. It's been a wonderful passion in my life at every stage I've been through. And some of them weren't pretty!


----------



## jpjibberjabber

I've seen horrible examples of theaters that are posted on this and other forums. Amazingly, basic stuff like wire management etc is forgotten and/or ignored prior to certain folks taking out their camera.


These are singled out, but should not feel too much shame. At least they find the humor in their installations.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

There was a homebuilder offering a home theater with stadium seating as part of their options. I could not have built a worse theater if I tried. Seriously. And when you think that a horrible professional cannot be beat, a DIYer comes and raises (lowers?) the bar for complete failure.


The ones from CE Pro are nowhere near the worst I have seen.


----------



## Flips




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GodsLabRat* /forum/post/18608376
> 
> 
> Also, factor in that not every HT is a finished work. In fact, very few are. Sometimes, you need to make do with the equipment you have, rather than give up your passion entirely. I dread the idea that HT should be an exclusive club for people with unlimited time and money to pour into a hobby... it would just reinforce the notion that we're either stereophile geeks in our parents' basements, or unmarried yuppies with excessive disposable income.
> 
> 
> I'm really not certain of the point to this article. It might be useful as a "What NOT to do", but instead it sends the message "Hey, let's laugh at these people!".



+1

Yeah, this article really had an elitist attitude to it.


This is my favorite quote:

"Perhaps a pro would have told him to take some of those trinkets to another room, or at least organize the clutter slightly better."

ohh.. I need to haul the junk out of a room before I install a home theater.. good thing I hired a pro to tell me that.


And I remember reading the thread with the big open room. He was just asking a question he didn't even have a theater installed..


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Flips* /forum/post/18609151
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Yeah, this article really had an elitist attitude to it.



Well, looking at the images, I have to ask, if one isn't going to do things correctly, why bother? That's not elitist, that's a reasonably curious question. And, it does stand to reason that a competent pro (not a homebuilder or resident electrician that "does low voltage") would do a better job. We would hope so anyway.


----------



## fitbrit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deepstang* /forum/post/18607192
> 
> 
> Ummm....not to be rude, but I think I have seen MUCH worse from posters.
> 
> 
> Craigs pictures in this link BEATS all these 5 "BAD DIY Theaters". BTW, you should read the QUOTE that Craig was responding to. To see a picture of that guys room would also take the lead.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16700727



Thanks a lot for making me spend an hour or so following those threads!









Hilarious, yet puzzling.


----------



## tony123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18609173
> 
> 
> Well, looking at the images, I have to ask, if one isn't going to do things correctly, why bother? That's not elitist, that's a reasonably curious question. And, it does stand to reason that a competent pro (not a homebuilder or resident electrician that "does low voltage") would do a better job. We would hope so anyway.



I've played golf for years....never correctly. Enjoyed the hell out of it!


----------



## Flips




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18609173
> 
> 
> Well, looking at the images, I have to ask, if one isn't going to do things correctly, why bother? That's not elitist, that's a reasonably curious question. And, it does stand to reason that a competent pro (not a homebuilder or resident electrician that "does low voltage") would do a better job. We would hope so anyway.



wow.. not sure what world you are living in. Believe it or not, everyone's goal isn't to create a THX certified screening room. I say more power to the guy that grabs a couple of speakers, a bed sheet, projector and sets up a place to drink beer and play guitar hero with his buddies all night. In fact I would think most pros (and us low-life DIYers) got their start doing just that. Although, the pro that wrote the article doesn't know the different between duct tape and electrical tape so I'm guessing he's never DIY'd a thing in his life.


What you are saying would be the same as a salesman at a Porsche dealer saying why would anyone bother to drive anything but a Porsche. Or the designer clothes boutique salesman that can't believe you would leave the house in a pair of Kirkland jeans a stained sweatshirt with your alma-mater on it.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tony123* /forum/post/18609329
> 
> 
> I've played golf for years....never correctly. Enjoyed the hell out of it!



lol.. Tony sums my point very perfectly.


----------



## bencorn

Sometimes it's about making due with the space you have. I'm sure people could crap all over my current setup as well but with space limitations and the fact I move every 12 months, I can't really do better right now. Doesn't take away from the enjoyment and love of the hobby, just isn't as polished and refined as it could be. Gotta take a step back every once in a while and realize not everyone is an video/audiophile.


----------



## reconlabtech

It's all about perspective. In a CE Pro article, bad means you didn't pay a certified CE professional to design and build your home theater.


It is interesting to see how others have made do and still enjoy their results. Of course we would all love to have something like SandmanX but I just don't have the cash to convert my garage!


----------



## Fiasco

I came across this beauty last week.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...0&d=1273262988


----------



## Mr Magic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Flips* /forum/post/18609151
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> Yeah, this article really had an elitist attitude to it.



The article definitely came off as elitist but that's sadly typical of CE Pro. "OMG look they have a DVD player on the floor!" "OMG they only have a 50 inch screen" etc


What I got from the pictures was average people of average income making the best of what they got and making a home theater they are happy with. If anyone is to be made fun of, it's the rich folk who pay custom installers obscene amounts of money for what could be done a lot cheaper and better on their own.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Flips* /forum/post/18609876
> 
> 
> wow.. not sure what world you are living in.



A world of standards.



> Quote:
> Believe it or not, everyone's goal isn't to create a THX certified screening room.



You can do things correctly - hell, even try to show a semblance of ingenuity while trying to do something - without having to be "THX Certified."











> Quote:
> I say more power to the guy that grabs a couple of speakers, a bed sheet, projector and sets up a place to drink beer and play guitar hero with his buddies all night.



More power indeed. But that's not a theater; it's a modified dorm room.


Is it that big of a deal to mount a TV at eye level? Is it a stretch to expect LCR speakers in front of the listener, actually flanking the display? Why is anything, no matter how stupid, acceptable nowadays?



> Quote:
> What you are saying would be the same as a salesman at a Porsche dealer saying why would anyone bother to drive anything but a Porsche. Or the designer clothes boutique salesman that can't believe you would leave the house in a pair of Kirkland jeans a stained sweatshirt with your alma-mater on it.



No. I'm questioning why some think it's acceptable to drive from the passenger's seat because they have a driver's license. Or, why it's suddenly acceptable to wear one's pants on one's head due to freedom of speech.


Generally speaking, celebrating screw ups is an Internet thing.



> Quote:
> lol.. Tony sums my point very perfectly.



At least someone could.


----------



## Fiasco

If it suits their purpose at their budget then it's a successfull installation.


You might not like it but your opinion is irrelevant in the scope of their world.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18611134
> 
> 
> No. I'm questioning why some think it's acceptable to drive from the passenger's seat because they have a driver's license. Or, why it's suddenly acceptable to wear one's pants on one's head due to freedom of speech.



Both poor analogies. Your questioning why they drive a fiesta when a ferrari is available or why someone chose polyester pants instead of denim.


It may not be how you or I would do it (ok, not may... it wouldn't be) but no one starts out knowing everything.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18610637
> 
> 
> I came across this beauty last week.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...0&d=1273262988



autco?











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18611204
> 
> 
> If it suits their purpose at their budget then it's a successfull installation.
> 
> 
> You might not like it but your opinion is irrelevant in the scope of their world.



I think as a professional, your perspective on what constitutes a successful install (if you were to perform it) would encompass the basics correctly - irrespective of budget. This isn't about money; it's about doing the basics right. If that's "elitist", you may do as I have and exit the business, since by your own logic, your professional opinion is apparently just as valid as any drunk college kid with a bedsheet and a dream.



> Quote:
> Both poor analogies. Your questioning why they drive a fiesta when a ferrari is available or why someone chose polyester pants instead of denim.



Again, not about money. Information on basic correct speaker placement (for example) is readily available, for free. There is no excuse, regardless of budget.



> Quote:
> It may not be how you or I would do it (ok, not may... it wouldn't be) but no one starts out knowing everything.



I believe you, but given this fact, you need to hammer the people that green-lighted the article if you're put out at the fact that these people (who outed themselves BTW) are being showcased as poor setup examples. There is a reason why this article exists; it's a warning of what not to do. That is always welcome outside of the ostrich community.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18611571
> 
> 
> I think as a professional, your perspective on what constitutes a successful install (if you were to perform it) would encompass the basics correctly - irrespective of budget. This isn't about money; it's about doing the basics right. If that's "elitist", you may do as I have and exit the business, since by your own logic, your professional opinion is apparently just as valid as any drunk college kid with a bedsheet and a dream.



My opinion is only valid when someone asks for it!


When it comes to an incorrect home owner install I view such projects with leniancy. Budgetary and knowledge restraints result in something less then we could do but if the homeowner derives some satisfaction out of their botched setup it's their home and their perogative. However, when I see a "professional" installation like the one I posted earlier in the thread I fall right in line with your way of thinking. It actually pisses me off to no end to see a homeowner taken advantage of like that even when the homeowner is completely ignorant to how screwed up the installation is because it works (sort of).


----------



## SSpivey

I think the problem with the article is that some of the slides portray 'bad home theaters' and some just portray people who have set up a 'home theater experience' or taken their TV+stereo to the next level.


IMHO, if you can unplug it all, move it and set it up somewhere else, it's unfair to call it a bad home theater.


The most interesting are examples where you can see there was budget, intent, and no (or inept) professional help.


S.


----------



## Mr.D

Not sure what to make of this mean spirited article.


I've seen 100k home cinema setups installed by pros: off axis projectors in white rooms where the owner is more interested in tellng you how much the chairs cost. I've literally had to walk out laughing of some of them.


I've seen setups that cost $1000 that performed better because they were some enthusiast's pride and joy and they actually had gone to the effort of finding out about the subject.


I'm so not interested in home cinema as a rich man's play thing. Its like having a ferrari and not knowing how to fill it up.. I'm much more impressed by the ones that normal everyday people have spent their spare time refining and growing over the years as they themselves have grown in expertise.


It could have all the cables in the world hanging out the walls as long as they were doing something useful.


As for the uber expensive home cinema installations that crop up in many articles does anyone think they look good? Most of them look like a repressed insurance salesman's idea of a cathouse. They usually spend more on the wood panelling and flock wallpaper than the main display!


You can have all the money in the world but it won't buy taste or knowledge.

A few less snobbish articles and a few more encouraging people with smaller budgets who cherish their home cinemas as something more than just the next thing to get after the marble jacuzi.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.D* /forum/post/18612077
> 
> 
> Not sure what to make of this mean spirited article.
> 
> 
> I've seen 100k home cinema setups installed by pros: off axis projectors in white rooms where the owner is more interested in tellng you how much the chairs cost. I've literally had to walk out laughing of some of them.
> 
> 
> I've seen setups that cost $1000 that performed better because they were some enthusiast's pride and joy and they actually had gone to the effort of finding out about the subject.
> 
> 
> I'm so not interested in home cinema as a rich man's play thing. Its like having a ferrari and not knowing how to fill it up.. I'm much more impressed by the ones that normal everyday people have spent their spare time refining and growing over the years as they themselves have grown in expertise.
> 
> 
> It could have all the cables in the world hanging out the walls as long as they were doing something useful.
> 
> 
> As for the uber expensive home cinema installations that crop up in many articles does anyone think they look good? Most of them look like a repressed insurance salesman's idea of a cathouse. They usually spend more on the wood panelling and flock wallpaper than the main display!
> 
> 
> You can have all the money in the world but it won't buy taste or knowledge.
> 
> A few less snobbish articles and a few more encouraging people with smaller budgets who cherish their home cinemas as something more than just the next thing to get after the marble jacuzi.



A more interesting article (and more informative) would be examples of what is/went wrong, why and what could be done to correct it. If it's a budget system then it should focus on a budget methodology.


----------



## tony123

I'm curious to get some feedback from the author. What are your thoughts after getting some feedback?


It's like this in most hobbies, isn't it? Pick up an enthusiasts magazine for almost anything, and it only showcases a small segment. If there was a publication for Home Theater that spent more time on the "heart and soul" of this hobby than it did specs on the latest tens of thousands of dollars amplifier, I'd be a lifetime subscriber.


That's one of the main draw's to this forum for me actually. It's a place you can come and converse with real people about real home theaters, very likely similar to the one's featured in this thread.


----------



## gingus

Ya know, after all the lights are out and the movie is going they all look the same except for the PQ and SQ. Other than that, I'm not sure I want to spend 50 - 100k to to have someone build a theatre for me.


----------



## bmwracer

You could only find five?


----------



## Gertjan

Reading that i felt like i was watching an episode of one of those celebrity obsession fashion critique TV shows, which are snobby, shallow and a waste of time.


----------



## mgkdragn

Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder (owner) .. stay thirsty, my friend.


----------



## rdjam

This is HILARIOUS! I love it










There have got to be many more examples like this - can we post some more here?


I'd hate to show you what my first HT looked like!


----------



## snowrs

This article, makes home theater enthusists sound like petty snobs, everyone has different things they need to deal with when they can not dedicate a seperate room for a home theater. Heck even my L and R are 5 1/2 ft off the floor about 3 ft higher than my listening plane. Why because that is where my wife said they could go, thats why. Who knows what these people have going on, the person with all the clutter could be a kid with only one room in his parents house... That would be an awsome system for a kid. Don't throw stones.


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lanced* /forum/post/18607557
> 
> 
> These are UGLY theaters but may not be "BAD" theaters.
> 
> 
> I don't want to be picky on words, but BAD implies there is something wrong with the quality of the HT, mainly PQ and Sound. Except for the cases of speakers mounting, which by position, we can tell they will produce bad sound quality. However we can not say if these theaters are BAD on the video department.
> 
> 
> If anything, these pictures tell me only one thing: these owners are not very organized. So even if they hire the professional to do it, after a while, the HT may return to the same look again.
> 
> 
> Much like most stuffs, the maintenance is the hard part and I don't think the professional installer can help with that.
> 
> 
> BTW, I doubt that these owners care much about decoration



Naaah, those ARE bad theatres. Speaker positioning, screen/display positioning will severely negatively affect the PQ and sound. Anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge of home theatre will catch those mistakes very easily.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18611638
> 
> 
> My opinion is only valid when someone asks for it!
> 
> 
> When it comes to an incorrect home owner install I view such projects with leniancy. Budgetary and knowledge restraints result in something less then we could do but if the homeowner derives some satisfaction out of their botched setup it's their home and their perogative. However, when I see a "professional" installation like the one I posted earlier in the thread I fall right in line with your way of thinking. It actually pisses me off to no end to see a homeowner taken advantage of like that even when the homeowner is completely ignorant to how screwed up the installation is because it works (sort of).



If your opinion represents a correct and learned course of action, it's always valid. Don't sell yourself short.


I'm not telling you anything you don't know here, but it is your job to tell people when they have room for improvement. If folks like you don't, that vacuum will be filled by those that know enough to be dangerous.


I see your point, but I know you're honest with people when you're on a walkthrough and you need to let people know when they need to fix things.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Susilo* /forum/post/18614116
> 
> 
> Naaah, those ARE bad theatres. Speaker positioning, screen/display positioning will severely negatively affect the PQ and sound. Anybody with the slightest bit of knowledge of home theatre will catch those mistakes very easily.



Agreed. They represent either terrible aesthetics, or terrible choices for ergonomics/performance (flat panel set ups), or both.


There may be _reasons_ why the people made those choices, but whatever the reasons, the results are not good ("inadvisable" might be the polite word).


As for this being a "rich guy" or elitist view, not true: there are plenty of low budget set ups that do not make those mistakes. Some people just have taste and know how to optimize what they have; others, not so much.


(Kind of reminds me of certain room-mates I used to have who had practically no money but could take almost any cheap ingredients and make a great meal...whereas I could not).


Just peruse the AVSforum theater photos and you can see this principle in action. Some really nice low-budget set ups. At the same time there are, let's face it, some hideous looking set ups too with, inexplicably, other folks giving thumbs up. No accounting for taste and all that.


----------



## robmarch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18612139
> 
> 
> A more interesting article (and more informative) would be examples of what is/went wrong, why and what could be done to correct it. If it's a budget system then it should focus on a budget methodology.



agreed.


I've seen less than ideal installs from DIY and pro installers alike, and in many cases, the result is still something fun and usable. however, in many of the cases, it wouldn't have taken much (if any) additional effort or money to make the experience even better for the user.


remind me never to show any pictures of my setup


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robmarch* /forum/post/18615084
> 
> 
> agreed.
> 
> 
> I've seen less than ideal installs from DIY and pro installers alike, and in many cases, the result is still something fun and usable. however, in many of the cases, it wouldn't have taken much (if any) additional effort or money to make the experience even better for the user.
> 
> 
> remind me never to show any pictures of my setup



Heck, even in my living room my speaker positioning could be better. But, I was limited by a doorway and the wife acceptability factor.


----------



## Marbles_00




> Quote:
> I was limited by a doorway and the wife acceptability factor.



UGG, the dreaded WAF. That alone could spell the difference between a successful and unsuccessful HT install.










Seriously though, the author of this article lost any credibility with me when he couldn't even tell the difference between duct tape and electrical tape...nuff said.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Marbles_00* /forum/post/18615720
> 
> 
> UGG, the dreaded WAF. That alone could spell the difference between a successful and unsuccessful HT install.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though, the author of this article lost any credibility with me when he couldn't even tell the difference between duct tape and electrical tape...nuff said.



I've also got a vaulted ceiling, wood floors, large opening (8' wide) to the kitchen/dining area.


Lots of stuff working against getting a perfect sound field but it sounds fantastic anyway.


----------



## SSpivey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rdjam* /forum/post/18613413
> 
> 
> This is HILARIOUS! I love it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There have got to be many more examples like this - can we post some more here?
> 
> 
> I'd hate to show you what my first HT looked like!



I think mine was moving the family 20" TV between my stereo speakers because they were running an FM/TV simulcast. This was before stereo TV audio and probably before our first Beta deck. Colour was probably a bit off too (deflection).

S.


----------



## R Harkness

For me, one thing that always makes me shudder is the folks who custom build cabinetry tightly around a TV display, locking in their display size permanently. Now that may be fine for people who really don't care about their displays or who aren't in this hobby. (Even then it seems a bit short sighted). But it seems a whopper of a mistake for anyone who might inhabit an AV enthusiast site like this. That small flat screen may have seemed The Bomb or really big back when you built your cabinetry around it, but it seems puny and outdated now...but oops....you've left yourself no room to upgrade the size. Oh well.


Just recently I saw a picture of someone's home theater. Everything, the theater seats, the decor, looked like you were in a nice projector-based home theater. Except in the picture of the screen, it was actually an old RPTV with the cabinetry built all around it! It frankly looked ridiculous in that room, being so small a display. But they'd spent time and money building all that cabinetry around it way back when...and that's the price of not thinking ahead.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18614280
> 
> 
> As for this being a "rich guy" or elitist view, not true: there are plenty of low budget set ups that do not make those mistakes. Some people just have taste and know how to optimize what they have; others, not so much.
> 
> 
> (Kind of reminds me of certain room-mates I used to have who had practically no money but could take almost any cheap ingredients and make a great meal...whereas I could not).



yep


----------



## chimpuat

I've been a lover of home theater stuff since the 90's, when I got my first AC-3 capable receiver (and boy, saying that makes me feel old). My current setup still employs some of the speakers I've had since then, but they still sound great, and I enjoy them.


I'm in the process of doing some upgrades and moving some things around, so right now, my living room looks horrible. I'm testing alternate locations for the surround channels, so there's speaker wire draped over 2 walls, while I try to decide where I like them better, sound-wise. On Saturday, I got my new Denon AVR-1610, so the rat's nest of cables behind my rack is decidedly cleaner now (thank you HDMI!), but it's definitely not a professional-grade install look going on back there.


I guess my point is, my setup looks a hot mess, but it sounds great to me (better than ever, thanks to the Denon, actually). I read a lot in these forums, and I take a lot of it to heart, and I file a lot of it away for future reference, and I make an honest effort to apply what I learn here.


I think those pictures, if anything, illustrated people who have a superficial interest in having a home theater experience, but don't care enough about it to do a quick internet search and educate themselves.


I don't think it necessarily means that the way they went about realizing that desire was 'bad', it just means it was uninformed. I tend to think these are the same kinds of people that go to a car lot and pay whatever the sticker says, without realizing you can actually negotiate better deals.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chimpuat* /forum/post/18620844
> 
> 
> I think it means they don't care if it's 'bad'. I tend to think these are the same kinds of people never wash their cars, leave them outside, and have expired tags.



fixed


----------



## Russ Younger

Swell article. Here are my points.


A lot of people own computers but don't learn how to take full advantage of them.

You can buy "HT" gear at BB and not even have to get a license to do it!

Many folk have other hobbies and they just want to sit and watch with some surround sound and a big picture. Nerding out on HT is not in their minds.

Nice looking and organized cables don't equal better sound and picture.


Worst HT article I have read in some time.


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Russ Younger* /forum/post/18622274
> 
> 
> Swell article. Here are my points.
> 
> 
> A lot of people own computers but don't learn how to take full advantage of them.



We'll let that alone for another article.


LOL



> Quote:
> You can buy "HT" gear at BB and not even have to get a license to do it!



Bad example. Best Buy shouldn't even be allowed to sell it to begin with.



> Quote:
> Many folk have other hobbies and they just want to sit and watch with some surround sound and a big picture.



Hard to do with a center channel to the side of you, and TV 10 feet off the ground.



> Quote:
> Nerding out on HT is not in their minds.



So, looking like a clueless dirtbag is?



> Quote:
> Nice looking and organized cables don't equal better sound and picture.



They do if they're installed correctly. Wrapping AV around power is not a good idea, but rest assured it's happening with each and every install featured here.



> Quote:
> Worst HT article I have read in some time.



You must not frequent this forum


----------



## rdjam

My first effort at a casual DIY home theatre included a $200 pull-down 105" screen (thank fully 16 x 9) and a set of Magnepan speakers suspended from the ceiling by home-made mounts.


I built it with with a friend in about 2 hours while waiting for the rest of my friends to arrive for that all-important first screening I invited everyone to, lol!


The room was totally untreated and sounded terrible at high volumes until a few days later when I started mounting pillows and cusions and blankets around the room and behind and below some of the speakers.


It was totally hilarious! I'm glad I didnt take pictures, or I'd be tempted to post them here!


I think I can laugh hard at this article because I've been there... OKAY, maybe not ALL THE WAY there, as for instance, I never had a mismatched set of speakers up on boxes blocking half of my movie screen like one of these guys - but close enough to understand how one can get such a mismatch of "ambition" versus "reality"










Even on that first setup, speaker placement was a huge priority, but I learnt a lot about room treatment as a result.


Yes - not everyone has a high-end architecturally designed and installed home theatre, but no one should end up like some of these even as DIY. Lots of these problems could be sorted out by having an amenable friend and a step-ladder!


So I dont have a problem laughing it up at these!


----------



## Russ Younger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18623019
> 
> 
> We'll let that alone for another article.
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bad example. Best Buy shouldn't even be allowed to sell it to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to do with a center channel to the side of you, and TV 10 feet off the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, looking like a clueless dirtbag is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They do if they're installed correctly. Wrapping AV around power is not a good idea, but rest assured it's happening with each and every install featured here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You must not frequent this forum



Allow me to explain.


1. Computers can be a tool or a hobby no?

2. Doesn't matter what we think, BB can sell gear to anyone.

3. Well I can't speak for that setup, but room arrangement and construction can affect television and speaker placement. Who knows what motivated them. I know my first PJ setup had my screen above the TV because I only had one room for both. No money for a new house.

4. No need to get in to name calling. Read the first reply about the computer analagy. Also I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't need the approval of others to enjoy what I want in my home, same goes for these folks.

5. Except for wrapping power cords around interconnects, what else is gained in audio quallity by not organizing cables?

6. My join date is 7 years before yours. And I reiterate that this is one of the worst HT articles I've seen in a long time. It is prsumptuous and arragant in the least.


----------



## flood222

I expected much worse. Kind of disappointed.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Russ Younger* /forum/post/18623233
> 
> 
> 6. My join date is 7 years before yours. And I reiterate that this is one of the worst HT articles I've seen in a long time. It is prsumptuous and arragant in the least.



Disagree.


If I were swerving all over the road dangerously in my car, it doesn't matter what the cause is, whether it's that I'm drunk, or I'm having a stroke, or if a bat suddenly flew into my car or whatever, no matter how reasonable the excuse might be for the bad driving, none of that changes the fact the end result is bad driving.


Similarly:

_Whatever the reasons_ for how the theaters turned out, each one exhibits poor aesthetic/design/ergonomic choices. It's not presumptuous to point this out. The article points out real problems in real theaters.


We can learn by avoiding the mistakes of others.


----------



## chimpuat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpjibberjabber* /forum/post/18621877
> 
> 
> fixed



THAT made me laugh.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18624917
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> 
> 
> If I were swerving all over the road dangerously in my car, it doesn't matter what the cause is, whether it's that I'm drunk, or I'm having a stroke, *or if a bat suddenly flew into my car* or whatever...



and thank YOU for adding item #378 to my "irrational fears" list.


----------



## Tedd

And one can point out mistakes made in many a professional installations, featured by CE Pro. Take Britanny Spear's theater as an example. It's polished looking but performance limited. The side surrounds are mounted mid row, compromising sound in both seating rows. The recessed screen surrounded by woodwork is yet another compromise, and the LR mains are mounted too high. I wonder about slap echoes with the side woodwork. And then there's the white ceiling....


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18624917
> 
> 
> Disagree.
> 
> 
> If I were swerving all over the road dangerously in my car, it doesn't matter what the cause is, whether it's that I'm drunk, or I'm having a stroke, or if a bat suddenly flew into my car or whatever, no matter how reasonable the excuse might be for the bad driving, none of that changes the fact the end result is bad driving.



That's a bad analogy. The homeowner isn't out on a public street watching a poor HT setup "dangerously" and posing a risk to others.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18626336
> 
> 
> That's a bad analogy. The homeowner isn't out on a public street watching a poor HT setup "dangerously" and posing a risk to others.



You've completely missed the point of the analogy. The point is that, if "X" can be pointed to as an undesirable result, it doesn't matter what the excuses for X are, it's still the case X is undesirable.


Someone may live in a cockroach infested home. It may not be their fault - they may not be able to afford better. That doesn't change the fact that having cockroaches infesting your home isn't a generally "bad" thing.


Similarly: Even if the results of certain home theaters are from ignorance, lack of finances, or lack of caring or whatever, it doesn't alter the fact that we can point to the problematic nature of the results (either aesthetic, ergonomic or whatever). And as stated earlier, some people do a lot better in coming up with solutions within severe constraints than others.


And btw, one presumes the owners of those theaters made their photos available to the public. Once you do that you open your home theater up to public comment. Just like posting my comment here makes it open to public comment.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18627047
> 
> 
> You've completely missed the point of the analogy. The point is that, if "X" can be pointed to as an undesirable result, it doesn't matter what the excuses for X are, it's still the case X is undesirable.
> 
> 
> Someone may live in a cockroach infested home. It may not be their fault - they may not be able to afford better. That doesn't change the fact that having cockroaches infesting your home isn't a generally "bad" thing.
> 
> 
> Similarly: Even if the results of certain home theaters are from ignorance, lack of finances, or lack of caring or whatever, it doesn't alter the fact that we can point to the problematic nature of the results (either aesthetic, ergonomic or whatever). And as stated earlier, some people do a lot better in coming up with solutions within severe constraints than others.
> 
> 
> And btw, one presumes the owners of those theaters made their photos available to the public. Once you do that you open your home theater up to public comment. Just like posting my comment here makes it open to public comment.



Like I said earlier though. If the homeowner is satsified with their botched install our opinions are irrelevant. IMHO the article could have done a better job by delineating mistakes made and making budget minded suggestions for improvement instead of throwing up partial pictures and a description that amounts to mocking the homeowner.


I'm not going to pull much business or generate any goodwill if on a walkthrough I tell the homeowner their personal attempt at an install sucks.


I have seen worse attempts made by "professionals"


----------



## Russ Younger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18627047
> 
> 
> You've completely missed the point of the analogy. The point is that, if "X" can be pointed to as an undesirable result, it doesn't matter what the excuses for X are, it's still the case X is undesirable.
> 
> 
> Someone may live in a cockroach infested home. It may not be their fault - they may not be able to afford better. That doesn't change the fact that having cockroaches infesting your home isn't a generally "bad" thing.
> 
> 
> Similarly: Even if the results of certain home theaters are from ignorance, lack of finances, or lack of caring or whatever, it doesn't alter the fact that we can point to the problematic nature of the results (either aesthetic, ergonomic or whatever). And as stated earlier, some people do a lot better in coming up with solutions within severe constraints than others.
> 
> 
> And btw, one presumes the owners of those theaters made their photos available to the public. Once you do that you open your home theater up to public comment. Just like posting my comment here makes it open to public comment.



1. I don't think it is a stretch to compare a computer with a home theater at all. Both can be a commodity or a hobby like anything else. Some people buy a HT in a box and some people build a theater. Some people buy a computer for balancing a checkbook and surf myspace and some like to build home networks. Who's right?

2. pointing out flaws with helpful constructive advice is one thing. Making fun at the expense of others is another.

3. They sure did put them out on the internet, do you think their intent was to be featured in an article and mocked without any rebuttal?


----------



## jpjibberjabber




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18627163
> 
> 
> Like I said earlier though. If the homeowner is satsified with their botched install our opinions are irrelevant.



Well, OK, you probably wouldn't have been called out if the homeowner thought everything was alright.



> Quote:
> IMHO the article could have done a better job by delineating mistakes made and making budget minded suggestions for improvement instead of throwing up partial pictures and a description that amounts to mocking the homeowner.



I think that


A: The owners donated the pictures, and

B: The point of the article was to poke fun.



> Quote:
> I'm not going to pull much business or generate any goodwill if on a walkthrough I tell the homeowner their personal attempt at an install sucks.



LOL, maybe don't use that phraseology with a client.



> Quote:
> I have seen worse attempts made by "professionals"



Professionalism is defined by repeatedly executing high standards and practices, not a paycheck with a store's logo at the top.


----------



## rdjam

I'm really worried about the bat thing, btw....







lol


----------



## Nathan_R

Glad to see AVS is taking the high road by reposting ground-breaking and informative articles such as this gem. Good show, chaps!


----------



## Maden

that is oweful!


----------



## duvetyne




> Quote:
> that is oweful!



You think they still owe a lot for that?


----------



## mystic_sniper28

I would say the article delves into basic setups that's all..



I would have to say most of us would of had a similar setup in our ht's at 1 point in time..


I would say a few of them would almost match my current setup at this point in time, if I had the cash to get what I want.


I would have my ht setup would look better than it is. though that takes time and money to build..


Cable management is nice to have when you can afford to buy it..



this article is just a text book example on what not to do in a ht install, it's no different to some of the network wirings i've seen over the intrawebs..


I will say the person who wrote the article needs to wise up a bit, it's nice to make puns at others expenses though you will need to take stock not everyone has the finances to waste money in hiding cables, what you see is what you get..


if I was going to do a layout I'd do it alot better than that..


not going to criticise peoples layouts to much as I suspect some photo's provided for article are likely done for specific reasons, personally I wouldn't place anything near a fireplace..


having children kind of limits place where you can put things out of their reach.


being a pack rat myself i understand the limitations of what can be done and what can't be done without serious cash injection into buying some type of storage solution to store stuff in.


the article was really woeful...


----------



## David Susilo

huh?


the only reasons people in the articles have those awful setup is because they have more money than knowledge. Not the other way round.


Also, cable management system is cheap. If you can't afford that, you can't afford... say... even the cheapest blu-ray player.


----------



## mystic_sniper28

it's not the knowledge that is the issue, it's having having the cash to invest in a decent storage solution most people who buy surround sound gear usually only have cash the the components to setup the system storage is another matter altogether..


though some go to extreme on a on a low budget, some pull it off, some have epic failure..


I've seen cable management that had to be redone due to poor layout..



given what i've seen some people do on this forums and others, I beg to wonder why they would bother doing a layout a certain way because it is far from ideal..


given some areas something equivalent to a tss-10 or tss-15 would more than enough than sound for 5.1..


personally I prefer to do 1 thing right than 20 things wrong wasting money


though the pic with the speakers above the tv kind left me dumbstruck, what self respecting person would ever stick fronts above a tv..


----------



## taskman

The article and the thread shines a bad light on all of us home theater enthusiasts







. I have worked with people in my career who say the same misguided comments about other people who lack the knowledge we have.


That Job? Information Technology. How many of you who commented about how trashy or misguided these theaters are IT Enterprise experts? How many would be willing to have me, a professional IT worker "Evaluate" your home network and security system? When I find issues should I quickly jump online so I can post how stupid and open your system is?


My point is that when your knowledgble in a field, you have a choice when you see a poorly done or misguided attempt. You can help those who are blind or you can mock them behind their backs and help no one. Personally, I choose to help.


One last note, I really hate that the Hollywood themed theater was labeled as a hoarder. If the person who labeled that had even spent 60 seconds to evaluate it, they would see that the person or family just wanted to show what what they truly liked which was hollywood. I don't see any signs of hoarding based on that picture.



A home theater only shows its worth when the lights are turned off.



Taskman


----------



## David Susilo

the one that is called hoarder is because of the messy nature of the way the owner display their knick-knacks. if they are shown tastefully, then it wouldn't be called "hoarder".


----------



## David Susilo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystic_sniper28* /forum/post/18666510
> 
> 
> though the pic with the speakers above the tv kind left me dumbstruck, what self respecting person would ever stick fronts above a tv..



Depending on the number of rows (of seats) and the angle of the centre channel. In many cases (of real home theatre) the centre channel is better to be installed above the display angled down towards the listeners.


For the front L and R... well, if they put them above their TV, they need to be shot


----------



## mystic_sniper28

David, i could understand it were 6-7' in the air though you can see 12-14' is a tad extreme for speaker placement..


I think the home owner selected the height more fire safety than realistic viewing and listening pleasure..


----------

