# HDMI cables that support [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?



## wildonrio

I have a 4K LG TV. It came with a 10ft HDMI a cable that supports [email protected] in 4:4:4 chroma and in Deep Color (are those the same?).

Now I need an HDMI cable with the same specs but at 15ft instead. I am failing. I'm on my 8th cable now and nothing works. The descriptions of these cables are all deceptive.

Does anyone have a 15ft+ cable that they use that supports these features?


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## doctorwizz

wildonrio said:


> I have a 4K LG TV. It came with a 10ft HDMI a cable that supports [email protected] in 4:4:4 chroma and in Deep Color (are those the same?).
> 
> Now I need an HDMI cable with the same specs but at 15ft instead. I am failing. I'm on my 8th cable now and nothing works. The descriptions of these cables are all deceptive.
> 
> Does anyone have a 15ft+ cable that they use that supports these features?


I tried a few but this 20' works for me since October. Connects a PC to my 4K TV 3840x2160, 60Hz, 444. 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A4Hu
YMMV


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## holl_ands

There are two types of HDMI Cables....4K needs the ones specifically claimed to be "High Speed" and/or “Category 2” and should work up to 30-meters before a Repeater is required. These Repeaters are frequently built into the connector shell and are described as "Active" or "Redmere" Cables...which are highly recommended for problematic applications such as yours, at a somewhat higher cost:
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#44

BTW: Do NOT Confuse "Category" Ratings with CL2 and CL3 (Class) Ratings...which are for FIRE RESISTANCE.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Yep. Certified high speed HDMI cables are all you need. Under about 25' (which is the current maximum length for certification) a passive cable should work just fine. Anything over 25' you may need either a passive cable with a thicker gauge wire or an active cable such as a Redmere. And, in case you're wondering, there is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. The number is a hardware specification, not a cable specification.


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## doctorwizz

The Redmeres that I have do not work at 3840x2160 60Hz. Avoid them.


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## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> The Redmeres that I have do not work at 3840x2160 60Hz. Avoid them.


They could be defective. It does happen from time to time. How long is your run and is it a direct connect? In other words device to tv, no switches in between.


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## doctorwizz

Otto Pylot said:


> They could be defective. It does happen from time to time. How long is your run and is it a direct connect? In other words device to tv, no switches in between.


It worked with a HDMI 1.4 video card 3840x2160 60Hz @ 420. But did not work with an HDMI 2.0 Nvidia GTX-970 3840x2160 60Hz @444 or 422. Direct from PC to TV.
A person commented on my review:
"Kara says:
Probably should have read this review first. I can confirm that this cable (15' length) won't display 60 Hz on a Samsung 8550 using a GTX-970."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00H7N4V30


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## Otto Pylot

At 15' an active cable is probably an overkill. Have you tried a certified passive high speed hdmi cable? Is your tv HDMI 2.0 compliant? If the Nvidia card is outputting at true HDMI 2.0 specs, but your tv can't process the same, then you will fall back to HDMI 1.4 hardware specs. HDMI 2.0 is still a deceptive term (as is 4k) so the Nvidia card and the tv might not be supporting the same specs. It is odd that the OP's 10' cable that came with the tv supposedly works but other cables won't. The cable is just a dumb pipe. There isn't anything magical or special about them. The only advantage of a Redmere cable over a certified High Speed HDMI cable is you can run longer lengths and still maintain the HDMI specs and the cables themselves are much thinner because they are active (draws a little power from the sink end).


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## doctorwizz

My TV has true HDMI 2.0 ports and does 444 color. 
I found one that works which I posted in post 2. 
I am a techie with a lot of cables. HDMI 2.0 can be finicky. Some cables seem to work but you get the occasional 3 second black screen with 4K 60HZ. And the rest only work at 1080P.


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## Otto Pylot

$15 for a 20' high speed hdmi cable is not bad. Doesn't say that the cable is certified for that length but if it works, problem solved. At least you're not paying three time that amount for a Monster or AudioQuest cable.


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## AV_Integrated

doctorwizz said:


> The Redmeres that I have do not work at 3840x2160 60Hz. Avoid them.


Have you tried the Redmere cables which are rated for a 18Gbs signal? Monoprice certainly differentiates between their 9Gbs and 18Gbs Redmere cables, but I've not played with a UHD signal to know what does and doesn't work with their cables.

I do have their 18Gbs rated cables which I have used with 1080p @ 15', but not UHD yet. If I get the chance to try it out I will, but wanted to know which version of the Redmeres you were using.

Unlike passive cables, I think the Redmere cables actually have a certain bandwidth they can't exceed. They are not just high speed/standard speed like other HDMI cables.


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## doctorwizz

AV_Integrated said:


> Have you tried the Redmere cables which are rated for a 18Gbs signal? Monoprice certainly differentiates between their 9Gbs and 18Gbs Redmere cables, but I've not played with a UHD signal to know what does and doesn't work with their cables.
> 
> I do have their 18Gbs rated cables which I have used with 1080p @ 15', but not UHD yet. If I get the chance to try it out I will, but wanted to know which version of the Redmeres you were using.
> 
> Unlike passive cables, I think the Redmere cables actually have a certain bandwidth they can't exceed. They are not just high speed/standard speed like other HDMI cables.


The Redmere I linked in post 7 is supposedly 18Gbps.


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## wildonrio

doctorwizz said:


> I tried a few but this 20' works for me since October. Connects a PC to my 4K TV 3840x2160, 60Hz, 444.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A4Hu
> YMMV


I purchased this cable and it unfortunately doesn't work with UHD Deep Color. When I turn on Deep Color, that cable produces no signal, but the 10' that came with my TV does produce a signal. I'm not even totally sure what Deep Color is; it might even be the same thing as 4:4:4 but I'm not sure.


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## Otto Pylot

wildonrio said:


> I purchased this cable and it unfortunately doesn't work with UHD Deep Color. When I turn on Deep Color, that cable produces no signal, but the 10' that came with my TV does produce a signal. I'm not even totally sure what Deep Color is; it might even be the same thing as 4:4:4 but I'm not sure.


Deep color is more about bit depth than a wider color gamut. Everything in the chain has to support Deep Color (source, cable, tv) to get any benefits from it. The only distinct advantage of Deep Color is that color banding may be reduced with higher bit depth panels. For a lot of people, the difference is barely discernible unless you have color banding with Deep Color disabled. Deep Color has been around since HDMI 1.3 but a lot of source material was not encoded with Deep Color so problems arose if Deep Color was enabled on your tv and it was expecting more information that what was being sent.


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## liltalkm

doctorwizz said:


> The Redmere I linked in post 7 is supposedly 18Gbps.


Yep, they don't work for me either.

When I re-did my set up, I purchased a bunch of these in 6' and 12' lengths specifically because of their speed rating. I thought I would be done with HDMI for a while.

I get nothing but a blinking screen when using these from my HTPC to my my LG EG9600, yet another old fat cable from Monoprice works great.

So excited to run new cables through my exterior wall where my TV is mounted. NOT.


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## doctorwizz

liltalkm said:


> Yep, they don't work for me either.
> 
> When I re-did my set up, I purchased a bunch of these in 6' and 12' lengths specifically because of their speed rating. I thought I would be done with HDMI for a while.
> 
> I get nothing but a blinking screen when using these from my HTPC to my my LG EG9600, yet another old fat cable from Monoprice works great.
> 
> So excited to run new cables through my exterior wall where my TV is mounted. NOT.


Yep, I think it is just a bogus claim of 18Gbps like most cables these days. They don't even have the HMDI©. Does you fat MP cable have the HDMI©?


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## liltalkm

doctorwizz said:


> Yep, I think it is just a bogus claim of 18Gbps like most cables these days. They don't even have the HMDI©. Does you fat MP cable have the HDMI©?



Not sure. I know it was purchased from MP many years ago. It has the ferrite cores on each end (not getting through the wall with those) and I have three of them. 

I really like the Redmere cables and I used the 10Gbps versions for years before investing in the 18Gbps versions expecting nirvana.

Now I need to find another solution.

I should add that the 18Gbps versions work great with everything else, but my HTPC at 4k 60 4:4:4.


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## Pyxle

I had the same problem with Redmere PRA 1700 and the Nvidia 980 TI. Redmere cables did not work reliably at 3840x2160 60Hz 4:2:0 HDMI 2.0 with any card. Regular cables worked with one card but not the other. Lower resolutions were all fine.


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## Otto Pylot

Was the Redmere cable a direct device to tv connection? In other words, no switches involved.


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## Pyxle

Yes, direct to the Sony VPL-600ES, on the HDMI 2.0 input.


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## Otto Pylot

How long is your run? Do you really need to use Redmere technology?


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## Pyxle

No I don't; I replaced it with a "plain" 15' cable and it works ok.


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## Otto Pylot

Good. I use 6' and 10' Redemere cables only because of the fexibility of the cable and the no strain on the input ends. Definitely an overkill for my length but they work just fine.


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## Pyxle

Does 4k work for you with the shorter cables?


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## Otto Pylot

I don't have 4k. I'm not an early adopter. Too many issues yet to be worked out for my liking. If your run is under 25' then a certified passive high speed hdmi cable from a reputable mfr should work just fine and it appears that you found a cable that works now?


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## bolmsted

Can you use the Redmere cables with wall plates/keystones and regular HDMI cables on either end for a projector mount and running the cable through the wall/ceiling? Futhermore, can you use an HDMI switch on the source side before it is routed to the display via a Redmere cable to the projector for example?

Monoprice seems to indicate that it isn't possible and they want you to run the cable directly from the source (e.g. BluRay player) to the sink/destination (e.g. TV/Projector) but other manufacturers seem to not care about this. Monoprice longer commercial cables are rated as 720p/1080i over 25 feet but I think you should be able to run longer distances and it probably wouldn't matter but they wont't certify it.

I know I need CL2 for in the wall cabling. I would like to run 4K @ 60Hz eventually but 1080p would be the necessity but i don't want to fish cables again later. I see you can do HD with Cat 6 cables and HDMI wall plates on the other sides but it seems limited to 1080p and not the eventual 4K.

HDMI.org FAQ seems to indicate that any HDMI High Speed cable should be able to use for 4K in the HDMI 2.0 specs but they also highlight longer distances could cause an issue.

I don't see why redmere cables would be CL2 if you run them in the wall but can't terminate them at a wall plate which is messy.

I want to put the projector about 15-18 feet back from the screen which will be about 3-4 feet form the front out the house due the shape of the wall (bay window style brick work) and then down through the wall to the wall plate and cable wound up a little small bit so I'm thinking the ceiling would require about 20-25 feet of cabling to be safe along with about 6-10 feet of cable for in wall to a wall plate and then HDMI cables on either end which would increase the length as well.


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## Otto Pylot

Redmere cables are active cables in that they have a chipset in the sink end (tv) side that draws a little power for the "activation". Redmere cable are great for distances longer than 25' but, because of the chipset, they can fail like any other electronic device so make sure you have some sort of system in place to easily replace them (a conduit for example if you are installing in-wall). In fact, what ever type of cabling you use for an in-wall installation conduit is the mantra.

Passive high speed hdmi cables will work fine with the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs if one pays attention to distance (25'). If the run is longer than 25' a passive high speed cable with a thicker gauge may be necessary. The downside is that you lose flexibility because of the cable thickness and there is increased strain on the inputs.

Solid core CAT-6 can be used but usually needs some sort of active termination like HDBT, but that can become pricey.


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## wadalove

doctorwizz said:


> I tried a few but this 20' works for me since October. Connects a PC to my 4K TV 3840x2160, 60Hz, 444.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A4Hu
> YMMV


I'm running a 25 foot version of this, but getting a few flickering horizontal lines.

I switched to the 25 foot version of Twisted Veins and the horizontal line flickering went away but the audio/video would drop out and return.

I'm going to try another 25 foot KabelDirekt to see if that one has horizontal lines as well.

For now I'm not seeing major success at 25 feet yet. I'll keep you all updated.


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## hayabusaxps

*my experience with a*

TV : un55hu8500 revision th01 chipset T-GFP8
gpu: 960gtx 
hdmi: monster black platnium (purchased simply for testing)

so I finally got the samsung tv setup working with the [email protected]@4:4:4 chroma, with no help from samsung. Thus far my tests and research have yielded that hdmi 3 cant run at full bandwidth (either programming or hardware limitation) hdmi uhd color must be on, you must have the input set to pc (huge requirement, that does require a remote with my tv firmware) the tv chipset must have a golf-P or higher chipset, options right now are a T-NT14U, Novatek (wont work), T-GFP8, T-GFP9 (these are the golf-p sets) and then a firmware that is newer than 2181 or 1191 (8,9). you also must have a highspeed hdmi cable (which runs 18gbps, some cables might claim this but actually fail tests so the important thing here is quality of cable for once) lastly you must have a hdmi 2.0 gpu. from what i have gathered i believe the only sets with hdmi 2.0 are the nvidia 900 series and titan x, amd's fiji silicon lacks hdmi 2.0, also until the drivers are written i dont think DP1.3 is compatible to convert to hdmi2.0 but we will see


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## doctorwizz

hayabusaxps said:


> TV : un55hu8500 revision th01 chipset T-GFP8
> gpu: 960gtx
> hdmi: monster black platnium (purchased simply for testing)
> 
> so I finally got the samsung tv setup working with the [email protected]@4:4:4 chroma, with no help from samsung. Thus far my tests and research have yielded that hdmi 3 cant run at full bandwidth (either programming or hardware limitation) hdmi uhd color must be on, you must have the input set to pc (huge requirement, that does require a remote with my tv firmware) the tv chipset must have a golf-P or higher chipset, options right now are a T-NT14U, Novatek (wont work), T-GFP8, T-GFP9 (these are the golf-p sets) and then a firmware that is newer than 2181 or 1191 (8,9). you also must have a highspeed hdmi cable (which runs 18gbps, some cables might claim this but actually fail tests so the important thing here is quality of cable for once) lastly you must have a hdmi 2.0 gpu. from what i have gathered i believe the only sets with hdmi 2.0 are the nvidia 900 series and titan x, amd's fiji silicon lacks hdmi 2.0, also until the drivers are written i dont think DP1.3 is compatible to convert to hdmi2.0 but we will see


You know your tech  What HDMI cable do you use for the 960 to TV?

I still always recommend the Kabel Direct Pro series in post 2. They work with HDMI 2.0 The Kabeldirect Top Series had issues with 4K
I now have 3 of the Pro Series.
Got a new AVR and the cable I was using from AVR to TV didn't work properly when the PC input was selected. (I used to go direct from 980 to TV) So I got a 10ft Kabledirect and it works with no issues. Replaced the 20ft from PC to AVR with a 15ft since 20ft was too long now. 

There will soon be Premium HDMI Cable Certification
I am sure those will be expensive!


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## Stefanos Mihanetzis

I have tried several cables to connect an MSI GTX 980 Ti to an LG UHD TV.
None of the cables I tried so far work at 4:4:4 at this distance.

A passive HDMI Ibra Black works at this distance at 4:2:0 (IBRA® 30 Feet High Speed PRO GOLD BLACK Range HDMI 2.0/1.4a)

I also tried two active cables with no success:
1. Ricable Supreme AI F10 - 10 Meter (32,8 feet) - Cable HDMI 2.0 High Speed 3D Certified with Microprocessor (Worked at 4:2:0)
2. 35 ft ELITE High Speed HDMI Cable w/Ethernet 28AWG Gold Plate In Wall Rated (at 4:2:0 image was flashing)

Do you know of any cable that can do this distance at 4:4:4?

I think I will try to split the distance and put a repeater in between (HDFury Integral 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz). Let's hope this works!


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## Stefanos Mihanetzis

*HDMI 4K60 @ 4:4:4 at 10 meters*

I have tried several cables to connect an MSI GTX 980 Ti to an LG UHD TV.
None of the cables I tried so far work at 4:4:4 at this distance.

A passive HDMI Ibra Black works at this distance at 4:2:0 (IBRA® 30 Feet High Speed PRO GOLD BLACK Range HDMI 2.0/1.4a)

I also tried two active cables with no success:
1. Ricable Supreme AI F10 - 10 Meter (32,8 feet) - Cable HDMI 2.0 High Speed 3D Certified with Microprocessor (Worked at 4:2:0)
2. 35 ft ELITE High Speed HDMI Cable w/Ethernet 28AWG Gold Plate In Wall Rated (at 4:2:0 image was flashing)

Do you know of any cable that can do this distance at 4:4:4?

I think I will try to split the distance and put a repeater in between (HDFury Integral 4K60 4:4:4 600MHz). Let's hope this works!


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## HDfury

You should try something like this below for driving 600MHz on the long run because even redmere tech is failing at such speed given to some labs report.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...CIn907vJ1sgCFYcSHwodjyoCUQ&is=REG&A=details&Q

We do have created 10m (2x5m) 600MHz link using regular HDMI cables but we first had to find working cables and it's alread0y not trivial for 2m. Until you found REAL tested and approved cables for 600MHz, you might have to buy 10 from one brand and only 2 will work out of them. HDMI cables issues at 600MHz are a nightmare! And all these cables that are failing @ 600MHz, of course, works perfectly well for 4K60 4:2:0 300MHz.


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## Otto Pylot

Seriously? $340 for a 50' cable, with a detachable HDMI connector, and no reviews?


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## doctorwizz

Otto Pylot said:


> Seriously? $340 for a 50' cable, with a detachable HDMI connector, and no reviews?


Cheaper on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LPMLKEC/

There is some reviews there too.


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## Tiphareth

I've tried directional cables from Monoprice (15') and Monster (35') (twice) and none of them work for [email protected] 4:4:4 on an LG 65EF9500 from a GTX970. Nearly all of my cheap/old cables work, but they're shorter runs-- 6'. A 24' Rocketfish-branded cable from Best Buy worked too, but I need a 35' run. 

I just don't think the directional cables are capable of it at any length.


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## danbfree

Well, I'm glad I finally found this discussion, I too an having problems going over any distance going [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma. I tried a new cable but it did no better than 30Hz like an old cable. I'm wondering if 24awg would help, I know I was originally trying 25 ft but can deal with 20 ft length if it will work.


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## danbfree

And I should mention I have both a Roku 4 and a GeForce GTX 950 to try with. From another discussion on a TV thread for an off brand not discussed here, someone posted that a $17 15 ft cable on Amazon worked for them, but 20 ft is the shortest I can go for my application and an hoping to discover a twenty footer that will work. Both Roku and PC work great with a 5 ft cable.


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## Pyxle

I had the best luck with the KabelDirekt PRO series but I was only doing 15' at 4:2:0. There is a 25' version you could try: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A3HQ


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## doctorwizz

The 20ft Kabeldirect Pro worked for me 4K/60 444 direct from GTX980 to TV.
I have since switched to the 15ft and a 10ft Pro Series since I got a 4K AVR in Sept. 
Go as short as possible with 4K/60 444. The 25ft might not work. The 20ft should work. YMMV


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## danbfree

Pyxle said:


> I had the best luck with the KabelDirekt PRO series but I was only doing 15' at 4:2:0. There is a 25' version you could try: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A3HQ





doctorwizz said:


> The 20ft Kabeldirect Pro worked for me 4K/60 444 direct from GTX980 to TV.
> I have since switched to the 15ft and a 10ft Pro Series since I got a 4K AVR in Sept.
> Go as short as possible with 4K/60 444. The 25ft might not work. The 20ft should work. YMMV
> 
> Currently unavailable on Amazon (20ft). Says:
> Item Under Review
> This item is currently unavailable because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)
> We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.


Thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm sending back a 2nd different model to Amazon as "defective", although claimed to support HDMI 2.0 specs/18Gbps, it couldn't even do [email protected] at 25 feet long like my old sturdy one I have does... I'll try one of the Kabledirect at 20 foot next!

EDIT: FYI, the KabelDirekt TOP series is the same as the PRO series without the cute outer braiding. I'm trying a 20 foot of one of those, I couldn't care less as this cable will be routed out of view anyway, the 20ft length is not on hold on Amazon, and it's like a buck less too... If a $13 20ft cable works for me I'll be happy!


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## fizban11

Everyone, I posted this on another forum as well.

At this point, there is nothing out there that will properly negotiate 60p signals. (Edit: HDMI cables over certain lengths.)

Quick rundown, we were hit by lightning this past April and everything was knocked out and replaced by insurance. Currently, I have two room systems, froma central rack. The LVR is driven by a new Marantz AV8802A pre-pro/MM8077 running to a new Samsung UN65JS9500 TV. Both pre-pro and TV are fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 certified; the MBR is driven by a Pioneer Elite VSX-90 AVR running to a new Samsung UN55JS9000 TV. The TV is fully HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2, the VSX Elite has 3 HDMI inputs that are HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2. I am using MyCableMart Elite HDMI cables (Redmere PRA1700 chip) of 35ft and 40ft, in-wall from the rack to the TV's.

When the TV's are in UHD color port mode, all internally generated 60 Hz signals from the pre-pro to the TV are blocked, which includes the video interfaces for Bluetooth, AirPlay and FM Tuner. The same is true for the VSX Elite, as well as anything connected to regular HDMI ports.

All of this was subsequently verified by our local home theater company, Custom Integrators.

I wrote MyCableMart tech support last week and did not hear from them, so I called them today. I was read a statement from the tech support rep dated October 5, 2015 from HDMI.org giving notice to a new certification program. I was informed that HDMI has now backtracked from the information they released earlier saying that if a cable met 1.4 certifications, then it would meet 2.0/2.0a certifications. This puts them and any retailers out there marketing a cable as being fully certified for full 4K bandwidth at a disadvantage with statements that are now proved false by HDMI.org. I was also told that any cable shorter than 15ft with no Redmere chip and up to 20ft with Redmere technology would fully support full 4K bandwidth. Now, these Elite cables are a lifetime guarantee warranty, so I was told I should get new cables once they are developed and support full 4K for these distances.

That being said, I had a brand new, unopened 15ft, 18gbps, Monoprice Redemere chip, ultra slim cable. I opened it up and ran it directly from each unit to the LVR JS9500 TV. I get the exact same failures. The tech rep from MyCableMart was very interested in this, as it contradicts what they have been told since this HDMI.org press release.

Now, these Elite cables from MyCableMart negotiate 30p/24p at 3840x2160 without a hiccup. At this time, the only sources I have that are full 4K/60p running from the AV equipment to the TV's are the internally generated video interfaces from Bluetooth, AirPlay and FM tuner. So, a Roku 4 or something like that, I cannot state emphatically that this will fail or not. Presumably, so, though.

The worst past is after a bit of constructive and extremely nice support from MyCableMart, management and the owner have decided to not stand behind the lifetime warranty replacement. Since they do not have anything to replace them with and will not for the foreseeable future, MyCableMart has decided to offer a refund only for those who report the 60 Hz issue by TODAY. I'll post the e-mails in a separate post.


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## fizban11

On Oct 30, 2015, at 1:09 PM, @mycablemart.com> wrote:
Hello Ryan,

Here is the email we received from management regarding this issue. I hope this brings some clarity and a possible resolve. I again apologize for the frustration. 


*Special Return Policy:*For customers that have previously purchased our *25 to 65 ELITE* cables (ie *metal ends* with *Redmere chip*) that contact us with a specific complaint that they are NOT supporting their *4Kx2K *content at *60Hz* will be offered the ability to RETURN such cables (shipping PRE-PAID by us) for purchases made PRIOR to today. I will update the tech notes of the specific cables that are affected. If this cable was the ONLY cable in their order, the refund will also include the shipping that they originally paid OUTBOUND.


Sincerely,


*Customer Service*



*Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2015 2:00 PM
*To:* @mycablemart.com
*Subject:* Re: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

CS,

First, neither you nor your company needs to apologize for this issue. HDMI.org is responsible. The only frustration I have is that sending these in under a normal return/refund leaves me with no way to get signals to the TV's since what I have is from a central rack, running in-wall to each TV location.

So what should I do? Returning them for a refund is all well and good, but there is currently nothing to replace them with.

As I said, I have these cables running in-wall from the rack to each TV location. Removing these will leave me with no way to get a picture to at least the MBR TV since its location is too far from the rack. For the LVR TV, I could run a cable across the floor, but I'm fairly certain my wife would not be amenable to this idea.

I tried a Monoprice 15ft Redmere chip, 18 gbps cable and it had the same failures from each AVR to the LVR TV.

Am I allowed to wait until your company has something that works to replace? I would hate to pull these cables out of the wall and send them to you with no way to watch anything. Or worse, get new cables only to find out they also do not work.

Thoughts?

Regards, 

Ryan Dalrymple


On Oct 30, 2015, at 2:36 PM, Dan K wrote:
Ryan,

Since we have no ETA on when the revisions will be available, I don’t believe there is an alternative option at this point. I’ve talked with my management and the owner of the company. They have both expressed that the only option that they are willing to honor is the return for refund. 

If it were my decision, I would allow you to keep what you have and then have those replaced with the new revisions when they’re available. Unfortunately it’s outside of my grasp.

I again apologize.

*Customer Service*





*Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2015 3:14 PM
*To:* @mycablemart.com
*Subject:* Re: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

CS,

It's not your fault. However, now your management and the owner of the company are saying they won't allow us to wait until there is resolution. That will generate a lot of negative views of MyCableMart online, both on your website and forums, such as AVSForum.

I noticed that the website for these cables has now changed under the description to reflect only 30 Hz. However, at the top, there is still a blanket statement that all of your high speed HDMI cables support "4Kx2K at 30 or 60 Hz." Additionally, the link to click for more info on HDMI 2.0 also states the same "60p" information.

So, from the info you passed along today, MyCableMart has continued selling and marketing these cables for 60 Hz after October 5, 2015, when you stated MyCableMart found out from HDMI.org that these cables do not support beyond 30 Hz. Shame on your company and shame on your owner.

I have lost my $160 on two cables of 35 ft and 40 ft. MyCableMart has lost my respect and will probably lose many customers over this. Not because of the failure of the cables, but because neither management nor the owner wish to do the right thing by all who have purchased these cables.

Good luck,

Regards,

Ryan Dalrymple
AVP of Sales & Marketing
The TAFFY Software Corporation


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## doctorwizz

Redmeres don't work at 4K. 
What is your 4K source? Right now the only 4K sources are Nvidia 900 series and Roku 4. Or an upscaled AVR video (useless).

I'm confused by this statement:

"At this point, there is nothing out there that will properly negotiate 60p signals."

4K/60 works fine here.


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## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> Redmeres don't work at 4K.
> What is your 4K source? Right now the only 4K sources are Nvidia 900 series and Roku 4. Or an upscaled AVR video (useless).
> 
> I'm confused by this statement:
> 
> "At this point, there is nothing out there that will properly negotiate 60p signals."
> 
> 4K/60 works fine here.


Yep, I'm having no problem with Roku 4 or my GTX 950 with a thin cord HDMI 2.0 compliant 5 foot cable with [email protected] and even full 4:4:4 chroma since my TV supports it... But my PC is in the opposite corner of the room from my TV so I'm trying KableDirekt 20 foot now that I'll receive tomorrow


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## Pyxle

I reported the issue to MyCableMart in June, including pointing out other posts here and on Amazon with people experiencing the problem, and fought them to get a return.

They have had plenty of time to address or change marketing. No reason to wait for HDMI.org to "make them aware" that the cables Redmere 18gbps chip is not compatible.


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## fizban11

Doctorwizz and Danbfree,

My fault. I edited my comments to over certain lengths of HDMI cables.

According to MyCableMart rep, HDMI.org has admitted to retailers that the official statement that HDMI.org put out that "any HDMI cable certified as high speed to 1.4b standards would also meet all HDMI 2.0 standards and could be marketed as 2.0 cables" was wrong. This may have been the plan all along to get companies to buy into the new HDMI certification program that HDMI.org announced on October 5th, 2015, it may be that HDMI.org truly thought these cables would handle the 60 Hz requirement over all lengths. Regardless, my home theater company used a passive cable under 15ft and it handled the 60 Hz 4K signal without any problem. Same length with a Redmere active cable, no dice, regardless if from Monoprice or MyCableMart. The MyCableMart cable is using the Redmere PRA1700 chip. However, Monoprice actually told me that they were not allowed to confirm if their cable I used, #10767 , was the same chip or not. They acted like it was a government secret. I did inquire after October 5th, so they may also be scrambling to figure out their plan of action since these cables will not negotiate 4K @ 60 Hz as advertised.

The source is an internally generated video interface from each AVR/Pre-pro (Pio VSX-90 Elite and Marantz AV8802A). When you select these on the AV equipment, the signal is from a board inside the AV equipment and output on the HDMI out of each to the TV via the cable. The Marantz tech support said that their machine will check on the other end of the cable to see what the max display capability is and match. In this case, 4K @ 60 Hz for the Samsung UN65JS9500 when the port is in UHD mode. Therefore, the signal is not up-converted, but natively generated 4K @ 60 Hz. However, the signal will not show on the TV. Take the TV out of UHD mode, it shows, with a resolution of 3840x2160 @30 Hz. From what Marantz tech support told me, the Marantz is seeing the TV is capable of 3840x2160 @60 Hz and sends that native signal, but the cable will not allow the signal. This was verified by our local home theater company.

The MyCableMart tech rep was very nice and told me that they were assured by HDMI.org that any HDMI cable rated high speed and under 15ft will properly negotiate 60 Hz, Redmere or passive. He said that any cable that is Redmere active up to 20Ft will properly negotiate 4K 60 Hz. Anything over 20 ft, they have been told by HDMI.org will not work, and even then, some are questionable. 30 Hz and below 4K signals are unaffected on the cable lengths I have of 35ft and 40ft. Now, is this the fault of the cable or the Redmere chip? I don't know since Monoprice won't give up the ID of the chip in this cable #10767 . If it's the same PRA1700 chip, it could be that Redmere is at fault. If it's a different chip, from 2014, then it could be that HDMI.org is in the wrong and MyCableMart marketed it as compliant with 60 Hz since they were told it was OK to do so by HDMI.org.

Regarding Roku 4 that was mentioned by Danbfree: if the Roku 4 is right next to the TV and connected by less than 15ft, then 4K should be fine as you have stated. I don't now about going through 2 different cables, one to an AVR and then out from the AVR to the TV. I guess as long as the total length is less than 15ft, but this is above my pay-grade.

In summary, if you are looking for an HDMI cable to future-proof for 4K @ 60 Hz and the run is over 15ft, then the Redmere chip cables Elite from MyCableMart and #10767 15ft from Monoprice will not work. And it seems that MyCableMart will not honor their ltd lifetime warranty and replace the cable once they have a solution. They are only offering a refund if I send these cables back to them right now. Since one TV is too far away to run a cable across the room and down floor boards and my wife would balk at a cable across the room for the other TV, I am left with having to keep the cables in place for 30 Hz for now and pull them and replace them once HDMI.org gets their new HDMI 2.0 certification process in place and these cables hit the market.

I'm not going to get into a shouting match with MyCableMart, nor am I going to advise anyone to stay away from these cables. In the grand scheme of life, $160 of insurance money was wasted on these cables and it won't break me or the bank. I'm just putting the info out their so others can make an informed decision.


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## fizban11

Pyxle,

MyCableMart probably thought they were in the right and that the cables were fine and certified 2.0 due to meeting 1.4b standards. After the October 5th press release from HDMI.org, they have had to backtrack. However, being told that even the owner will not allow for these cables to be replaced once there is a solution definitely makes me want to take my business elsewhere when cables are finally available. It may not be their fault IF HDMI.org overstated these cable capabilities, but it is their cable, sold on their website, and their owner who doesn't want to do the right thing. It's a shame. It's hard to overcome these things with an internet business. Reputation online is everything today.

FYI: the MyCableMart tech rep told me that I was the first person he had spoken with that has brought up this issue with their Elite cables. If you have reached out since June, this tells me that MCM didn't want the problem to be known within the company.


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## Otto Pylot

Sounds like another marketing scam to confuse the consumer on HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0 and cable specs, not hardware specs. Didn't HDMI.org state that the current passive high speed HDMI cables could handle the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs? 18Gbps is nice but is there any hardware that can reliably send that?


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## fizban11

danbfree said:


> so I'm trying KableDirekt 20 foot now that I'll receive tomorrow


Let us know if this works. Personally, I need a longer run for each TV, but it would be nice to know if it does.


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## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> Sounds like another marketing scam to confuse the consumer on HDMI 1.4 vs HDMI 2.0 and cable specs, not hardware specs. Didn't HDMI.org state that the current passive high speed HDMI cables could handle the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs? 18Gbps is nice but is there any hardware that can reliably send that?


You are right, this is what HDMI.org previously stated. However, according to MyCableMart, HDMI.org has now told the retailers since the October 5th announcement that they were wrong in saying that the 1.4b specs could handle the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs and that they are now backtracking from this. So, if this is true, IF, then the retailers were lied to by HDMI.org, or HDMI.org overstated before they knew all lengths of HDMI cables would not support 4K @ 60 Hz, but only to 30 Hz. Regardless, now HDMI.org is starting a different certification program for 2.0/2.0a standards.

The hardware for 18Gbps will be coming in the form of Blu-Ray either before Christmas or just after. The Roku 4 supports 4K signals, but let's face it, no one is steaming download speeds of 18gbps to their home!


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## doctorwizz

fizban11 said:


> You are right, this is what HDMI.org previously stated. However, according to MyCableMart, HDMI.org has now told the retailers since the October 5th announcement that they were wrong in saying that the 1.4b specs could handle the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs and that they are now backtracking from this. So, if this is true, IF, then the retailers were lied to by HDMI.org, or HDMI.org overstated before they knew all lengths of HDMI cables would not support 4K @ 60 Hz, but only to 30 Hz. Regardless, now HDMI.org is starting a different certification program for 2.0/2.0a standards.
> 
> The hardware for 18Gbps will be coming in the form of Blu-Ray either before Christmas or just after. The Roku 4 supports 4K signals, but let's face it, no one is steaming download speeds of 18gbps to their home!


Turn of the scaling on the AVR. The TV will upscale much better. 
18Gbps is referring to the data bandwidth of the cable which has nothing to do with download speeds.


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## Otto Pylot

fizban11 said:


> You are right, this is what HDMI.org previously stated. However, according to MyCableMart, HDMI.org has now told the retailers since the October 5th announcement that they were wrong in saying that the 1.4b specs could handle the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs and that they are now backtracking from this. So, if this is true, IF, then the retailers were lied to by HDMI.org, or HDMI.org overstated before they knew all lengths of HDMI cables would not support 4K @ 60 Hz, but only to 30 Hz. Regardless, now HDMI.org is starting a different certification program for 2.0/2.0a standards.
> 
> The hardware for 18Gbps will be coming in the form of Blu-Ray either before Christmas or just after. The Roku 4 supports 4K signals, but let's face it, no one is steaming download speeds of 18gbps to their home!


That is good news that HDMI.org is, or will be, approving a certification program for HDMI 2.0 like they did for HDMI 1.4. My guess is that the 18Gbps reliability threw them because they didn't anticipate HDMI 2.0/HDCP2.2 chipsets coming to market in new devices this fast. I've never been a real fan of HDMI to begin with but it's what we are stuck with currently. That's why I strongly recommend the use of conduit for long or difficult to get to cable runs. HDMI will run it's course and a new and better connection technology will take it's place. However, I digress. I think distance will still be a problem for the certification and we may be limited to a certifiable distance like we are at 25' for current passive HDMI.

All this points to, imo, how the cable industry plays fast and loose with their marketing and labeling claims. Just like the tv industry did when HDMI 2.0 was first announced and, to a certain degree, 4k labeling of tv's. That forces the consumer to really dig around and find information and not depend solely on slick marketing ads or clueless sales people who are trying to push a product. With Black Friday (Week) rapidly approaching there are going to be tons of people who will be caught like a deer in headlights with all the claims, great prices, etc and buy away. Only to find out 6 months to a year from now that their purchase can't really do what they thought, or wanted.


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## danbfree

fizban11 said:


> Let us know if this works. Personally, I need a longer run for each TV, but it would be nice to know if it does.


KableDirekt 20 ft Pro cable from Amazon works! $13 on Prime... From what looks like pro's have said, all properly rated Category 2 High Speed cables SHOULD work up to 25 feet so I'm guessing this KableDirekt one would have worked up to 25 feet as well, but I'm happy where I'm at now. Hope this helps.


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## Pyxle

fizban11 said:


> MyCableMart probably thought they were in the right and that the cables were fine and certified 2.0 due to meeting 1.4b standards.


It's not a matter of opinion; I gave them multiple reports and enough information to reproduce the fault if they wanted to. Apparently they did not try, and relied on HDMI.org's assurances despite consistent customer complaints.

The problem lies with the way the Redmere PRA1700 processes 4k 60hz. You can tell that a cable contains this chip if it's marketed as a Redmere 18Gbps cable. However, bandwidth doesn't actually matter; 4:2:0 chroma subsampling doesn't work and that is only 10Gbps.

Presumably Redmere will release a new chip compliant with the revised 2.0 standard.


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## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> KableDirekt 20 ft Pro cable from Amazon works! $13 on Prime... From what looks like pro's have said, all properly rated Category 2 High Speed cables SHOULD work up to 25 feet so I'm guessing this KableDirekt one would have worked up to 25 feet as well, but I'm happy where I'm at now. Hope this helps.


And what is the industry agreed upon definition of Category 2 High Speed Cable? Is it the fire rating of the cable or a standard for HDMI? Passive High Speed HDMI cables can be rated up to 25' if you get a certificate that says the length of cable you purchased has been tested at that length. Is the rating certified for the length of cable you bought?


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## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> The 20ft Kabeldirect Pro worked for me 4K/60 444 direct from GTX980 to TV.
> I have since switched to the 15ft and a 10ft Pro Series since I got a 4K AVR in Sept.
> Go as short as possible with 4K/60 444. The 25ft might not work. The 20ft should work. YMMV


So you ended up being exactly right, thanks for pointing me the right way!


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## Pyxle

I guess Redmere is Spectra7 now, after some merging and reorganization.

Note that the PRA1700 placemat does not mention HDMI 2.0 or 4K, and also that the design is old (2013): http://www.spectra7.com/pdfs/products/PRA1700-Product-Brief.pdf

The HT7180 (2014) does mention it: http://www.spectra7.com/pdfs/products/Spectra7-HT7180-M-ver5-Short-DS-20140910.pdf

Possibly the HT8181 (2015) handles it as well, although details are limited: http://www.spectra7.com/Spectra7-HT8181-Press-Release-20141120-A6-F.pdf. Supposedly the Ethereal Velox cable series has this chip, if you can find one.

If you want to know more about the company: http://www.spectra7.com/Spectra7-Corp-Overview-Oct05-2015.pdf


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> And what is the industry agreed upon definition of Category 2 High Speed Cable? Is it the fire rating of the cable or a standard for HDMI? Passive High Speed HDMI cables can be rated up to 25' if you get a certificate that says the length of cable you purchased has been tested at that length. Is the rating certified for the length of cable you bought?


All I know is that the speed is either category one or two and the CL rating is the fire rating... and *speed* rating should be good up to 25 feet but obviously we're seeing many cables not meeting that.


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## Otto Pylot

That's one of the misleading statements that cable mfrs purposely do. Sure, passive HDMI 1.4 calibration is good up to 25' but you need to look carefully to see if the length of cable you are purchasing has been certified for that particular length. HDMI 1.4 is rated for 10.2Gbps. 18.2Gbps is just starting to get tested but just because the cable can transmit at 18.2Gbps doesn't necessarily mean that it can meet all of the HDMI specs at that bandwidth. Until HDMI.org approves a certification procedure and organization, cable mfrs can still play loose with what they state. I'm waiting for a cable that comes with a Certificate that "x" length meets all HDMI 2.0 hardware specification at 18.2Gbps.


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## Joe Fernand

Cable manufacturers/resellers slapping HDMI Version numbers and claiming all manner of 'compliance' at this or that speed have created this mess.

Before 5th Oct cables were either High Speed or Standard - nothing else, any other claims were down to some 'in-house' testing or not reading HDMI.org's labelling guidelines.


So now we have Premium High Speed, High Speed and Standard - though you can guarantee there are folk already creating 'Premium High Speed 2.0a' labels and spurious 'Spec Sheets'.


Joe


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> That's one of the misleading statements that cable mfrs purposely do. Sure, passive HDMI 1.4 calibration is good up to 25' but you need to look carefully to see if the length of cable you are purchasing has been certified for that particular length. HDMI 1.4 is rated for 10.2Gbps. 18.2Gbps is just starting to get tested but just because the cable can transmit at 18.2Gbps doesn't necessarily mean that it can meet all of the HDMI specs at that bandwidth. Until HDMI.org approves a certification procedure and organization, cable mfrs can still play loose with what they state. I'm waiting for a cable that comes with a Certificate that "x" length meets all HDMI 2.0 hardware specification at 18.2Gbps.


Right, many of us need 25' cables that meet HDMI 2.0 compliance of 18.2Gbps NOW and so it is a matter of trial and error. It seems like no matter what is claimed at this point, finding cables that can provide full compliance past 20 feet are rare to non-existent. With 4K hardware at this time really starting to become much more mainstream, it would be nice if they came out with a new standard that is clearly defined.


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## danbfree

Joe Fernand said:


> Cable manufacturers/resellers slapping HDMI Version numbers and claiming all manner of 'compliance' at this or that speed have created this mess.
> 
> Before 5th Oct cables were either High Speed or Standard - nothing else, any other claims were down to some 'in-house' testing or not reading HDMI.org's labelling guidelines.
> 
> 
> So now we have Premium High Speed, High Speed and Standard - though you can guarantee there are folk already creating 'Premium High Speed 2.0a' labels and spurious 'Spec Sheets'.
> 
> 
> Joe


Good info Joe, so you are saying there is a new standard of "Premium High Speed" as of Oct. 5th? It would be nice if this was disseminated to the public more clearly, in the meantime I'm happy to have found 20 foot cables that are meet this spec for me.


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## Otto Pylot

I believe Joe is saying that you are starting to see HDMI cables labeled as Premium High Speed but there isn't any clear definition, or certification of what "Premium" means.

In regards to your other question, do you have any devices that have the HDMI 2.0 chipsets that are rated for 18.2Gbps? The HDMI 2.0 specs range from 8.91Gbps all the way up to ~72Gbps. So, you can have HDMI 2.0 chipsets but unless specifically stated in the specs you don't now if they max out at 8.91Gbps, 11.14Gbps, or 18.2Gbps. And of course your color sample (4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4) depends on the color depths of your panel (8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit, or 16-bit) and if the tv has the hardware to run those color depths. 2160/60p covers a wide range of possibilities.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> I believe Joe is saying that you are starting to see HDMI cables labeled as Premium High Speed but there isn't any clear definition, or certification of what "Premium" means.
> 
> In regards to your other question, do you have any devices that have the HDMI 2.0 chipsets that are rated for 18.2Gbps? The HDMI 2.0 specs range from 8.91Gbps all the way up to ~72Gbps. So, you can have HDMI 2.0 chipsets but unless specifically stated in the specs you don't now if they max out at 8.91Gbps, 11.14Gbps, or 18.2Gbps. And of course your color sample (4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4) depends on the color depths of your panel (8-bit, 10-bit, 12-bit, or 16-bit) and if the tv has the hardware to run those color depths. 2160/60p covers a wide range of possibilities.


I have a Roku 4 and GeForce GTX 950 that both work in [email protected], with the GeForce specifically at 4:4:4 chroma on my TV... However, trying to use 4K w/10-bit color setting on the Roku results in a strange doubled image on the top half of the screen, I'm not sure if it is because of the thin, supposedly HDMI 2.0 rated cable I'm using or is a Roku 4 glitch affecting everyone trying to use 10-bit. From my limited research I was shooting for cables rated specifically for 18.2Gbps as I believed that to be the full bandwidth necc. for [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma. So far I have a thin cord 5 ft cable for Roku and a thick 20ft cable for the PC. I just wish I knew 100% which cables should work. Are you saying if my TV supports 4:4:4 chroma then I have a 16-bit panel? I know on the box and listed in specs "1.07 G" is mentioned for my off-brand TV.


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## Otto Pylot

From what I've read 4k/60p 4:4:4 can be achieved with an 8-bit panel at 17.82Gbps. One of our more distinguished contributors suggested that the industry may settle on 4:2:2 at 12-bit resolution for UHD. His reasoning is that a resolution greater than 8 bits is critical to support the higher dynamic ranges without visible banding, which is even more important than increased number of pixels. The lower the color sampling will also yield sharper transitions between colors. It all depends on what bit depth your panel supports and if it has hardware to adequately display 8-bit, 10-bit resolution. It's nice to have a 10-bit panel but does the tv have the necessary hardware to support full 10-bit. The Roku and GForce may support the output but if the tv can't handle the input whether the HDMI 2.0 chipset is at fault, the video processing of the tv doesn't support it, or a funky cable is hard to tell at this point.

Have no idea what "1.07 G" means. Doesn't sound like an industry standard to me.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> From what I've read 4k/60p 4:4:4 can be achieved with an 8-bit panel at 17.82Gbps. One of our more distinguished contributors suggested that the industry may settle on 4:2:2 at 12-bit resolution for UHD. His reasoning is that a resolution greater than 8 bits is critical to support the higher dynamic ranges without visible banding, which is even more important than increased number of pixels. The lower the color sampling will also yield sharper transitions between colors. It all depends on what bit depth your panel supports and if it has hardware to adequately display 8-bit, 10-bit resolution. It's nice to have a 10-bit panel but does the tv have the necessary hardware to support full 10-bit. The Roku and GForce may support the output but if the tv can't handle the input whether the HDMI 2.0 chipset is at fault, the video processing of the tv doesn't support it, or a funky cable is hard to tell at this point.
> 
> Have no idea what "1.07 G" means. Doesn't sound like an industry standard to me.


Thanks for the details, some of which I'm semi-familiar with, like when I saw "1.07 G" I assumed it referred to 10-bit color as it supports 1.07 Billion colors, but someone suggested that the "1.07 G" term meant something along the lines of some kind of enhanced 8-bit that simulates 10-bit, I'm not entirely sure... I suppose I can't complain too much as I have a VERY cheap 65" 4K TV and I'm luck that it supports HDMI 2.0 on all 4 of it's ports so it's a "good enough for now" solution to play with 4K for now... I suppose it will be partly wait and see how the industry responds as this holiday season more and more 4K sets will be sold and make 4K much more mainstream.


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## fizban11

Good news and in the interest of being fair to MyCableMart and the Elite cable/Redmere PRA1700 chip issue, I have been in contact with a manager who wants to work through the issue. They are stepping up and allowing me to keep the cables in place until a solution is viable. At this time, he has offered to send me a 10m Elite cable that has a modified Redmere chip for real-life testing that he says they just received from their manufacturer. I'll post the e-mails below:

*From:* Neil 
*Sent:* Monday, November 02, 2015 12:40 PM
*To:* Ryan
*Subject:* RE: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

Ryan,

All of our staff were instructed to forward complaints or issues with the 4Kx2K @60Hz to me directly. Dan was not authorized to make promises, nor should he had made statements like “If it were my decision…”

The information regarding certain devices to NOT provide for a full 4Kx2K support using certain cables is still coming in. Updates to our website product descriptions are still occurring as we obtain this additional information. We expect many lawsuits to be filed against HDMI LLC by larger manufacturers as they provided us invalid and incorrect information regarding a high-speed’s cables ability to fully support 4Kx2K at 60Hz. Please see our recent blog regarding this issue at:
http://www.mycablemart.com/blog/index.php

My Cable Mart has been VERY upfront with this information – unlike many of our competitors which continue to sell 50, 60, and sometimes even 100ft lengths of copper HDMI cable and claim they are “4Kx2K at 60Hz”.

We are offering customers to outright RETURN products to use that were previously advertised as supporting 60Hz, that we have since found out may NOT support 60Hz (from certain display devices). You are very welcome to hold on to such cable until we have a resolution. 

For cable lengths longer than 40ft, there might not even be a solution that will pass the “Premium HDMI High Speed” testing. Again, we are waiting for our manufacturers to submit samples to HDMI LLC for certification and testing. 4Kx2K @60Hz testing has only be available since October 1, 2015 (believe it or not!).

*Neil
*
*General Manager*
*6224 Bury Dr, Eden Prairie, MN, 55346*
*P: 952.486.8736, F: 952.937.0469*




*From:* Ryan
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:07 PM
*To:* Neil
*Cc:* 
*Subject:* RE: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

Neil,

I’m sorry this reply is not prompt. I had some things with work and home that have kept me a bit preoccupied. I’m not about to get into a shouting match with you or MyCableMart about this issue. On the contrary, I would like to work with you to come to a resolution so I can confidently move forward knowing that the new systems that were put into my home will perform up to a full 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 color depth (Chroma).

Let’s immediately clear something up: Dan did his job, and he did it well. He did not make promises to me in any fashion, nor did he imply otherwise. If you are able to go back and listen to the audio recording of the tech support call, I expressed my opinion of what should be the correct course of action, i.e., I stated that all of us who purchased the cables should be allowed to keep them in place until MyCableMart has a solution. Dan’s comment of, “if it were my decision…” was his way of explaining to me that he knew I would be disappointed in the decision that was made. He should not be reprimanded in this, he should be applauded. He connected with his customer. Legally, he did nothing that would upset your lawyers. In my case, as may well be the case of many others, my HDMI cables are run from a central closet rack system, through the walls and out to the two TV’s in my home. These were put in by professionals, which cost money and time. The e-mail, as forwarded by Dan, had no date. So when it says “for purchases prior to today” there is no way to know when that actually is. Additionally, pulling these cables would need to be by a professional and cost money and time. Receiving the new cables when there is a solution will cost money and time. In the meantime, while waiting for a solution, how do I get a regular signal to the TV’s for entertainment purposes? I’m sure you would agree this is truly a much larger problem than simply returning the cables and is a great inconvenience.

There may be lawsuits filed against HDMI.org and there may be lawsuits filed against your company for the claims of these cables that have proven false. I can’t see myself being one of those that do. I spent $160+ for two cables of 35 ft and 40 ft. They don’t work as advertised and there may not be anything out there that does or ever will. From my research, it would take 4-CAT 7a cables twisted together to equal the bandwidth needed for 4K @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 color depth. Filing a lawsuit over $160? That would certainly not be one of the best decisions I have ever made.

You say you were very upfront about the information. That may be so, but to whom were you upfront? What should have happened is that any person who purchased these Elite cables should have been contacted by e-mail immediately and told that you had been made aware of the issue and that you were working on a solution since these cables have a limited lifetime warranty and would be replaced by MyCableMart under warranty for failure to do as advertised. This would have made MyCableMart the hero company who stands behind their product. Good PR like that is hard to come by.

I have searched for information online and found several other people complaining about this issue and saying that they personally contacted MyCableMart as far back as June, but that your company wouldn’t listen. I don’t know for a fact this is true, but unfortunately, it makes it seem as if your company didn’t want to do anything about it. HDMI.org’s statement that was read to me by Dan was dated October 5th, 2015. The blog you directed me to had one statement about the issue, dated October 29th, 2015, the day before I called in. The information that is still on your website as of today is misleading at best. If you are really concerned about customers and their perceptions and opinions, you should make sure that when it states the “All of My Cable Mart's *HIGH SPEED* HDMI cables (previously certified using the version 1.4B testing specifications) now meet HDMI LLC's *version 2.0* specifications supporting data speeds of *18Gbps* and beyond - as well as many other additional features including HDCP 2.2 support, and 4Kx2K at 30 or 60Hz Click *HERE* for more information about HDMI 2.0”, there should be a disclaimer of “@ 4:2:0 chroma.” I’m sure you have already seen the pic I attached, but in case you didn’t, take a look. It’s the full 4K @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 color depth that seems to be what these cables are not able to reproduce.

Regards
Ryan 
____________________
Ryan

*AVP of Sales & Marketing*





*From:* Neil
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 7:55 AM
*To:*
*Subject:* My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

Ryan,

Yesterday, our manufacturer has sent to us a special 35ft HDMI cable with a revised Redmere PRA1700 chipset that has passed 18Gbps at 60Hz testing. We want to know if you are interested in exchanging this 33ft cable with this new revision and to test this cable on your equipment? 

*Question: Do you specifically have a method to test a video clip at 4Kx2K at 60 fps (60Hz)?*

*Neil*
*6224 Bury Dr, Eden Prairie, MN, 55346*
*P: 952.486.8736, F: 952.937.0469*

 

*From:* Ryan 
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:47 PM
*To:* Neil
*Subject:* RE: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

Neil,

I would be more than willing to test this cable, but shouldn’t it be done there? If it is just a single cable with a revised Redmere PRA1700 chip, I think it would be better for me to wait until they are widely and commercially available.
NEIL: Testing has been completed by HDMI LLC – but we want a REAL LIFE test with a REAL TV before we give manufacturing the go-ahead to mass produce with this revised PRA1700 Redmere chipset. 

1) Is the cable 35 ft or 33 ft?
NEIL: I believe it is 33 feet or 10 meters
2) Is there only one cable? I purchased 2 different cables of 35 ft and 40 ft for the LVR and MBR, respectively.
NEIL: We have only ONE sample sent to us from manufacturing for testing. This would be a FREE sample that you would not have to return to us. All we ask is that if you can perform this test for us to see if it fully supports your 4K at 60Hz
3) I don’t have a direct way to play of video clip of 4K @ 60 Hz, however the two AV devices I have produce a visual interface signal that is internally generated. These visual interfaces are 4K @ 60 Hz.
NEIL: This is what we suspected, as HDMI LLC has informed us that there currently are NO movies or videos that are in production beyond 24fps (or “30Hz” support). 

I recognize it might be helpful for any engineers or AV experts you have employed to know specifically the problems I have with the two cables. What I have are two systems, LVR and MBR, that were all put in over the past summer. Everything was professionally installed by a home theater company, Custom Integrators here in Waco. David Keller is the manager and one of the most knowledgeable people I have met in the field of home theater. They brought out a standard 20 ft high speed passive HDMI cable. This cable was able to send all signals, including the visual interfaced at 4K 60 Hz.

NEIL: We completely understand this. Please also understand that this was HDMI LLC (the technology inventory and licensee) that provided INCORRECT specifications for HDMI cable manufacturers stating that if a cable tested to HDMI 1.4A HIGH SPEED testing specifications, that it would fully pass all 4K content (30 and 60Hz, including “4:4:4 chroma subsampling”). Unfortunately, HDMI LLC screwed up because there were not any TV’s made at that time that could even support such a signal type.

LVR:
Marantz AV8802A Pre-processor (all HDMI ports are HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2)
Samsung UN65JS9500 TV (all HDMI ports are HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 and switchable from UHD color map on/off)
Video Sources: DTV HR34, Roku 3, Panasonic Blu-Ray and Xbox One (none are capable of 4K, let alone 4K @ 60 Hz)
The Marantz AV8802A Pre-pro outputs a 4K @ 60 Hz 4:4:4 signal across the HDMI cable to the TV for the visual interfaces of Apple AirPlay, Bluetooth and HD FM tuning. It is these visual interfaces that disappear when the HDMI ports are in UHD color map mode. Turning this mode off, they reappear.

MBR:
Pioneer VSX-90 Elite AVR (All 6 ports are HDMI 2.0/ 3 of the 6 ports are HDCP 2.2 compliant)
Samsung UN55JS9000 TV (all HDMI ports are HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 and switchable from UHD color map on/off)
Video Sources: DTV HR24, Roku 3, Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray, Popcorn Hour C-200 and Xbox One (none are capable of 4K, let alone 4K @ 60 Hz)
The Pioneer VSX-90 Elite AVR outputs a 4K @ 60 Hz 4:4:4 signal across the HDMI cable to the TV for the visual interfaces of Apple AirPlay, Bluetooth and HD FM tuning. It is these visual interfaces that disappear when the HDMI ports are in UHD color map mode. Turning this mode off, they reappear. Additionally, any device attached to a non-HDCP 2.2 port on the receiver disappears when the TV HDMI port is in UHD mode. I’m not sure if this is also an issue of the cable not working correctly.

Regards,
Ryan



*From:* Ryan
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:43 PM
*To:* Neil
*Subject:* Re: My Cable Mart Order 1437166966-842

Neil,

I would be more than willing to test the cable out. The three Redmere cables I have (the 2 Elite cables from MyCableMart and the 15 ft from Monoprice) each failed.

HDMI LLC is correct in that there is nothing available at this time that will play a 60Hz video clip from a direct source. However both at CEDIA and CES this past year, Sony and Panasonic had 4K blu ray players showcasing the 60Hz content. They are due out this holiday season and into the 1Q 2016. Titles are due out shortly thereafter.

As I stated below, the 4K @ 60 Hz source that I have is the Marantz Pre-pro and the Pioneer Elite AVR. Both output the visual interfaces for Apple AirPlay, Bluetooth and FM Tuning in 4K @ 60 Hz. Marantz was fairly certain the failure to display these by the TV was due to the Elite cable, but it wasn't confirmed until Custom Integrators came to the house and ran a passive cable to the TV straight across the room to the TV from the rack. These are the only true 4K 60 Hz sources that I am aware of and certainly would not test the bandwidth of the cable, merely the ability to display a 4K @ 60 Hz signal.

The Roku 4 is now available and it supports 4K up to 60Hz, but whether or not the streaming titles available in UHD are full 4K 60 Hz or not is beyond me. This is important as right now, the UHD streams that can be accessed must be accessed via an app built into the TV software. The Roku 4 would be the first to have the ability to run the signal via HDMI either directly through the TV port or through a pre-pro/AVR and then out to the TV.

If you want to send it to me, I'll test it out with the visual interface signals and see what happens.

Regards, 
Ryan

*AVP of Sales & Marketing*


----------



## danbfree

Interesting info... Until I got the 20ft KabelDirekt to work for me I tried 2 others, all off Amazon, and I gave the 2 that didn't work poor reviews...Now keep in mind, both directly claimed "18Gbps" speed. Well, both sellers contacted me and I explained my reason for the poor reviews. The first, "2-Pack Ultra Clarity HDMI 2.0 Flat Cable - High Speed (25 Feet) Supports Ethernet, 4K, 3D, and Audio Return", passed a [email protected] only, much like my previous 1.4a cable I already had. My response and their reply went like this:

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for the response and the honest feedback. We will update our listings accordingly.

--- Original message ---

I returned my cables a while ago already... This is not necessarily your fault, but at 25 feet long, they did not pass through a [email protected] signal... I don't know if it is because of the length and with no industry standard for [email protected] and length limits. I'm going to update my review, but you guys may want to know about these limits and update your cable descriptions accordingly and that I don't believe many cables will work beyond 15-20 feet for [email protected] with full 4:4:4 chroma.
-Daniel 

As of now, they haven't updated their listing.

The second, "Super HD 4K Ultra HDMI Cable 2.0V Support 3D,1080P,Ethernet,and Audio Return Channel(ARC) -25Feet" did not even pass through [email protected] wow, REALLY disappointed... The seller, to his credit was VERY aggressive in trying to please me and is sending me another cable free of charge in exchange for removing my review, which I'm not sure is possible, so I just updated it to include positive language about the seller and that it works fine for 1080p, seems like quality construction, etc but left in language that it did not work for me in 4K at all... I'm going to give it a try and report back to him the results, although I'm not expecting anything different. I also tried to warn him about length limits and not necessarily their fault due to no industry standards in place for HDMI 2.0 supported cables, but they simply insisted theirs should work.

Bottom-line, KabelDirekt at 20 feet works perfect for me and they DO warn customers in their descriptions that runs beyond 25 feet might need a "repeater"... I'm not sure how successful that would be for a [email protected] signal as you guys have been reporting Redmere issues, but at least they are trying to be honest up front... So yes, with a little finesse, a 20 ft. cable is suiting my needs but now I'm curious if the KabelDirekt in 25 ft would work and give me a bit of slack that I'd like.


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## Otto Pylot

It would appear that cable mfrs are really pushing the labeling of their cables by using "HDMI 2.0" in the cable description. It's reminiscent of what cable mfrs used to do by labeling their cables "HDMI 1.4" which lead to a lot of consumer confusion and prompted HDMI.org to ask cable mfrs to drop the hardware designation from their cable descriptions and just use Standard or High Speed for the cable description. The "Super HD 4K Ultra HDMI Cable 2.0V" is really sketchy. I wouldn't trust any mfr that labeled their cables that way. And until HDMI.org comes up with a standardized testing protocol for HDMI 2.0 and 18Gbps speeds, it's all marketing b.s. imo.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> It would appear that cable mfrs are really pushing the labeling of their cables by using "HDMI 2.0" in the cable description....I wouldn't trust any mfr that labeled their cables that way. And until HDMI.org comes up with a standardized testing protocol for HDMI 2.0 and 18Gbps speeds, it's all marketing b.s. imo.


It seems that HDMI.org has released more information on the "Premium HDMI Cable Certification Program" which can be found *here* and the program will include certification of both 2.0 and 2.0a specs. There is an *FAQ*, as well. The program will allow those with smartphones or ability to access the verification tool webpage to scan the anti-counterfeit tag or enter the unique ID under the tag and find out the EXACT specifications of THAT particular cable inside the package. This will be easy to do in a retail store, not so easy when ordering a cable from your favorite WWW mega store. Hopefully, the cable descriptions online will show a pic of the Premium Certification label for peace-of-mind. Also, there is a listing you can access of participants in the program. Some of these are mega companies, some are manufacturers. For me, it will be hard to know if a cable from Amazon or Monoprice came from one of these manufacturers or not without the certification tag.

This sounds like the standardization protocol you desire. Thoughts?

Still no word of theoretical max cable length. Just to throw this out there, it seems as if this program is designed to thwart the MonoPrice's of the world.

I haven't heart from MyCableMart as to whether or not they are actually sending the 10m (33 ft) modified Redmere chip to me as offered, or not.


----------



## danbfree

fizban11 said:


> It seems that HDMI.org has released more information on the "Premium HDMI Cable Certification Program" which can be found *here* and the program will include certification of both 2.0 and 2.0a specs. There is an *FAQ*, as well. The program will allow those with smartphones or ability to access the verification tool webpage to scan the anti-counterfeit tag or enter the unique ID under the tag and find out the EXACT specifications of THAT particular cable inside the package. This will be easy to do in a retail store, not so easy when ordering a cable from your favorite WWW mega store. Hopefully, the cable descriptions online will show a pic of the Premium Certification label for peace-of-mind. Also, there is a listing you can access of participants in the program. Some of these are mega companies, some are manufacturers. For me, it will be hard to know if a cable from Amazon or Monoprice came from one of these manufacturers or not without the certification tag.
> 
> This sounds like the standardization protocol you desire. Thoughts?
> 
> Still no word of theoretical max cable length. Just to throw this out there, it seems as if this program is designed to thwart the MonoPrice's of the world.
> 
> I haven't heart from MyCableMart as to whether or not they are actually sending the 10m (33 ft) modified Redmere chip to me as offered, or not.


Sounds good to me... a new "Premium HDMI Cable Certification Program" so we knew what cables supported the full [email protected] w/4:4:4 chroma would be great! In the mean time, at least I have Amazon Prime and sent those cables back completely postage free with UPS even coming to my work to pick them up.


----------



## Otto Pylot

fizban11 said:


> This sounds like the standardization protocol you desire. Thoughts?


Yep. I remember a long time ago when I purchased passive high speed hdmi cables from MediaBridge they came with a certificate of compliance for the length that I purchased. I'm glad to see HDMI.org stepping up and starting (or re-starting) a certification program for the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs because it's painfully apparent that the cable mfrs, even some reputable ones, are confusing the public with claims and carefully worded marketing, just like they did when they were labeling cables as HDMI 1.3, 1.4, etc. However, even with a certification program in place, one will have to be careful that the certification program is one that is approved by HDMI.org, and not just an "in-house" testing program that doesn't follow the HDMI.org requirements which should include cable length as it did for the HDMI 1.4 hardware spec (25').


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## doctorwizz

I purchased a Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) last year for HDMI 2.0 4K/60, didn't work. Returned it. IDK if it had a cert. or not.

They claim this:

Specifications
- Supports 3D, Ethernet channel, ARC, 1440p, 1080p & [email protected]/60 (2160p) Ultra HD resolution
- Supports transfer rates of at least 18Gbps & 240/480Hz increased refresh rates
- Supports 48-Bit deep color, HDCP compliant & True HD-Dolby 7.1


----------



## rdeyoung

doctorwizz said:


> I purchased a Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) last year for HDMI 2.0 4K/60, didn't work. Returned it. IDK if it had a cert. or not.
> 
> They claim this:
> 
> Specifications
> - Supports 3D, Ethernet channel, ARC, 1440p, 1080p & [email protected]/60 (2160p) Ultra HD resolution
> - Supports transfer rates of at least 18Gbps & 240/480Hz increased refresh rates
> - Supports 48-Bit deep color, HDCP compliant & True HD-Dolby 7.1


I just bought 4 of these but at 3 and 6 feet... they better work!


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## doctorwizz

rdeyoung said:


> I just bought 4 of these but at 3 and 6 feet... they better work!


I think my issue was length. 25ft is probably too long for 4K/60 HDMI 2.0
Mediabridge doesn't make a 20ft. 
A 20ft Kabledirect Pro Series worked perfect.


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## Otto Pylot

Making a claim is one thing. But actually supplying a certificate that states that the cable length was tested by an approved and standardized method is an entirely different matter. That's what I'm hoping comes out of the HDMI.org push. 25' may turn out to be too long for a passive cable to meet the 4k/60p at 18Gbps requirements that some owners feel they need. Certification also provides some sort of qc guarantee from cable to cable. We're already seeing some people claim that cable "X" works for them but somebody who buys the same cable from the same mfr has difficulties.


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## Pyxle

fizban11 said:


> there should be a disclaimer of “@ 4:2:0 chroma.” I’m sure you have already seen the pic I attached, but in case you didn’t, take a look. It’s the full 4K @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 color depth that seems to be what these cables are not able to reproduce.


It's broken at any chroma depth, at least for cables of a certain length. I'm going from the GTX 980TI to the Sony VPL-600ES which only supports 10.8gbps in on HDMI 2.0 @ 4:2:0 4k60p, and it still doesn't work at 25'. I have two of these MyCableMart Elite cables in the wall because I didn't have a 4k sink during install and expected them to work as advertised.


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## Pyxle

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 5:43 AM, My Cable Mart - Amazon Marketplace
wrote:

Please request a RETURN via the AMAZON portal. We can not initiate a return request ourselves for this ONE cable.

--- Original message ---

How do I check if it has been certified? NVidia is listed as an
adopter on the HDMI site.

I am not the first person to have this problem with Redmere HDMI 2.0
apparently. See:

- http://www.amazon.com/review/RGN1UZLRS527S/
- http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...0hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color.html#post34623697
- http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...0hz-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color.html#post34916105

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:12 PM, My Cable Mart - Amazon Marketplace
wrote:
>
> We are currently working first with REDMERE to determine if there is a known incompatibility with this specific video card. The product itself absolutely performs as advertised, and has been certified and tested by HDMI LLC for such compatibility. However, if the VIDEO CARD you are using this with has not been certified and tested by HDMI LLC, we can not be responsible for such results.
>
> --- Original message ---
>
> But it doesn't perform as advertised.
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 5:45 AM, My Cable Mart - Amazon Marketplace
> wrote:
>>
>> We accept returns for refund within a 30 day period. Unfortunately, we can not accept this product back as it is beyond our return period.
>>
>> --- Original message ---
>>
>> Ok thanks. I'm interested in the answer as I still have the two 25'
>> cables. If I can go ahead and return the other 15' cable that would be
>> great.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 9:09 AM, My Cable Mart - Amazon Marketplace
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the detailed information surrounding this issue. I have sent an email directly to our cable manufacturer to see if we can get more information about this specific issue with your specific video card. The REDMERE PRA1700 chip is used in MONSTER and AUDIO QUEST cables as well. We are going to see if this is a VIDEO CARD issue, or a REDMERE CHIP issue.
>>>
>>> --- Original message ---
>>>
>>> I am trying to send 3840x2160 60hz 4:2:0 subsampling over HDMI 2.0,
>>> which should be only 10Gbps. It cuts in and out and I have
>>> intermittent black lines through the picture. Everything works fine at
>>> lower resolutions or hz. I think it is an incompatibility with RedMere
>>> and the Nvidia 980TI card. I got a 15' cable without Redmere that
>>> works so I want to replace both 15' runs with that one. I will keep
>>> the 25' cables as they are in the wall already and I don't need to
>>> connect the PC through them.
>>>
>>> I have seen some other reports online which also lead me to believe
>>> there is an issue with Redmere and Nvidia. Probably it would make
>>> sense for you to test this specific configuration.
>>>
>>> I posted some more information on AVS forum:
>>> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/145-htpc-gaming/2041954-nvidia-4k-60hz-problems.html#post35298306
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 2:24 PM, My Cable Mart - Amazon Marketplace
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to hear you are having trouble with the 15' HDMI cable not supporting 4K. I see you have multiple purchases of this cable from our company, are you able to get the other 15ft cable to support 4K? I would like to find out if you possibly received a defective cable, or if we have a larger issue here. Could you also let me know what resolution you are attempting to achieve?
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, does the cable work properly at a lower resolution? When your computer is set to a resolution of 4096x2160 at 30/60hz do you simply not get a signal once so over, or does it cut in/out?
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Shane C
>>>> Returns
>>>>


----------



## Pyxle

fizban11 said:


> NEIL: This is what we suspected, as HDMI LLC has informed us that there currently are NO movies or videos that are in production beyond 24fps (or “30Hz” support).





fizban11 said:


> HDMI LLC is correct in that there is nothing available at this time that will play a 60Hz video clip from a direct source. However both at CEDIA and CES this past year, Sony and Panasonic had 4K blu ray players showcasing the 60Hz content. They are due out this holiday season and into the 1Q 2016. Titles are due out shortly thereafter.


NVidia cards could drive 4k60p beginning in June 2014...


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## fizban11

Pyxle,

I hear you. The Elite MyCableMart HDMI Redmere Pra1700 chip cables I have can at least pass a signal for [email protected] 24 Hz and 30 Hz. The Marantz AV8802A pre-pro I have can upconvert the signal. It has two different 4K scaling features of "4K" and "4K 50/60 Hz." The first has no problem reaching the TV and being reproduced. The second gives no signal to the TV. According to charts I have seen, any 24/30 Hz 4K signal would be either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 chroma running at 10 and 8 bit depth, respectively.

I agree the Nvidia cards, and maybe others, can upconvert the signal to a 4K 60 Hz. However, what Neil from MyCableMart and myself were discussing is the ability to upconvert and produce a 60 Hz 4K 4:2:2 signal, rather NATIVE content at 4K 60 Hz 4:4:4, which would tax not only the ability to pass the signal, but to test the bandwidth of the cable as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pyxle said:


> It's broken at any chroma depth, at least for cables of a certain length. I'm going from the GTX 980TI to the Sony VPL-600ES which only supports 10.8gbps in on HDMI 2.0 @ 4:2:0 4k60p, and it still doesn't work at 25'. I have two of these MyCableMart Elite cables in the wall because I didn't have a 4k sink during install and expected them to work as advertised.


I hope you installed your in-wall cables in a conduit  Cable specs are going to change so the only way to "future proof" any in-wall cable installation is to use conduit and throw in a couple of solid core CAT-6/7 cables for when an HDMI cable won't work or be sufficient for the change in cable specs.


----------



## Pyxle

I installed the current cables directly in wall, but added a 1.5" empty conduit for future proofing. Space was tight. I didn't expect the cables I had bought to be obsolete the day they were installed.


----------



## Pyxle

fizban11 said:


> NATIVE content at 4K 60 Hz, which would tax not only the ability to pass the signal, but to test the bandwidth of the cable as well.


Various games are rendered natively at 4k, that is my point. The level of detail is equivalent to native 4k video.


----------



## fizban11

Pyxle,

With all due respect, please review the chart I uploaded. I'm not getting into a war with you or anyone out there that wants to shout from the rooftops that they have been able to do PC gaming running at native 4K @ 60 Hz. That's not only probably true, it's likely true. However, from the chart, you will see that 4K @ 50/60p (Hz) was a function of HDMI v. 2.0, but only at 4:2:0 chroma (color depth), 8 bit and only rated on the 10.2 Gbps bandwidth specs. Please, let's not confuse a blanket "4K @ 60Hz" signal with 4K @ 50/60p (Hz), 4:4:4 chroma (color depth) at 8 bit/12 bit or 4:2:2 12 bit signals. These are functions of the HDMI v. 2.0a specs in the 18 Gbps bandwidth specs, which I refer to as "full 4K."

Bottom line, not all 4K @ 60 Hz signals are the same. With the aforementioned content at 24/30p (Hz), it can be upconverted, but the cable must be able to pass the entire signal. Some will pass the signal up to a certain length, some will not. Most cannot pass an upconverted signal to 4:4:4 greater than 8-bit 24p 4K signals, let alone a native signal greater than this. It doesn't have to do with the 60 Hz signal, so much as the video information increasing to 4:4:4 chroma at 8/12 bit, which the cables can't seem to handle. If they can pass the upconverted signal, there is no guarantee it will pass a native signal for "full 4K" due to the bandwidth restrictions.

As I have said before and pointed out to Neil at MyCableMart, the irony is that a passive HDMI cable rated for "High Speed" seems to be able to handle the full 4K 4:4:4 chroma at 8/12bit in the 18 Gbps bandwidth range with ease up to at least 20 ft. Beyond this, almost everything is failing. Since there is nothing out there that is native "Full 4K" (again 4:4:4 chroma at 8/12 bit in the 18 Gbps bandwidth), there is no way to actually test the cables for this bandwidth other than verifying the handshake has occurred.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Just because they are part of the approved HDMI 2.0 Specifications Set doesn't automatically mean that any given passive high speed cable has been tested and certified to run the full HDMI 2.0 spec set at a given length. Ethernet and Deep Color capability, for example, are part of the HDMI 1.4/2.0 specs but was never implemented into commercial devices. You can't compare across the board video games and video (movies). The standards are set for video but game developers can do pretty much what they want. They should be close but there is no guarantee. Until there is approved certification methods that are adopted by all cable mfrs it's going to be a crap shoot purchasing passive/active HDMI cables and expecting full HDMI 2.0 capability especially at lengths longer than about 20'-25'. My guess is that passive HDMI cables that are certified for 18.2Gbps are going to be thick and heavy, which is going to reduce flexibility, put more strain on the inputs, and be restricted to lengths less than 25'. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Pyxle

fizban11 said:


> Pyxle,
> 
> With all due respect, please review the chart I uploaded.


I understand all that; I'm saying that the cables didn't work at the lower 4:2:0 bandwidth. But they didn't even test that.

Neverthless you can create a native 4k 60hz 8bit 4:4:4 signal over HDMI 2.0a from an Nvidia card, so it is possible to test. But I only have an HDMI 2.0b sink so I can't do it myself.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pyxle said:


> I understand all that; I'm saying that the cables didn't work at the lower 4:2:0 bandwidth. But they didn't even test that.
> 
> Neverthless you can create a native 4k 60hz 8bit 4:4:4 signal over HDMI 2.0a from an Nvidia card, so it is possible to test. But I only have an HDMI 2.0b sink so I can't do it myself.


What's HDMI 2.0b? 2.0a is just a firmware push for HDR capability (the flags for metadata) supported only by the new chipsets that can support 18.2Gbps, which, btw, are just starting to become available in some devices.


----------



## Pyxle

Otto Pylot said:


> What's HDMI 2.0b? 2.0a is just a firmware push for HDR capability (the flags for metadata) supported only by the new chipsets that can support 18.2Gbps, which, btw, are just starting to become available in some devices.


I was going by fizban11's chart above that suggests it is required for 18Gbps depth/chroma bundles.


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## Otto Pylot

The use of 2.0b is confusing and not accurate because it implies an official hardware standard, which it's not. To keep it simple:


2160/60p, 4:2:0, 8-bit, 8.91Gbps
2160/60p, 4:2:0, 10-bit, 11.14Gbps
2160/60p, 4:2:0, 12-bit, 13.37Gbps
2160/60p, 4:2:0, 16-bit, 17.82Gbps
2160/60p, 4:2:2, 8-, 10- or 12-bit, 17.82Gbps
2160/60p, 4:4:4, 8-bit, 17.82Gbps
4320/60p, 4:4:4, 12-bit, ~72Gbps


Until HDMI.org approves ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) for full HDMI 2.0 compliance there is no guarantee that a cable that can deliver up 18Gbps is going to work reliably at those bandwidths and color depth, let alone meet the other requirements (CEC Extensions, Dual-View, Multi-Stream Audio, 21:9 aspect ratio, and Dynamic Auto Lip-Sync).


----------



## INFECTEDWUPGDBUG

I have had a Samsung JS9500 since september and still to this day have not been able to get 4k @60hz 4:4:4. I have used many cables from Amazon,Monoprice,Kabeldirekt top series, and mediabridge, with 6ft to 10ft max runs. All I get is [email protected] with 4:20. So once again reaching out for help. I Have a 6ft Kabeldirekt pro series coming in today.


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## Otto Pylot

Do you know what the clock speed is of the 9500's HDMI 2.0 chipset? Just because it's HDMI 2.0 doesn't necessarily mean it's clocked for 17.82Gbps. There's quite a bit of bandwidth variability in the HDMI 2.0 specs. The cable may be able to handle that bandwidth and your source may be pushing that bandwidth but if your tv can't process it....


----------



## danbfree

INFECTEDWUPGDBUG said:


> I have had a Samsung JS9500 since september and still to this day have not been able to get 4k @60hz 4:4:4. I have used many cables from Amazon,Monoprice,Kabeldirekt top series, and mediabridge, with 6ft to 10ft max runs. All I get is [email protected] with 4:20. So once again reaching out for help. I Have a 6ft Kabeldirekt pro series coming in today.


Just to be clear, with KabelDirekt there is no difference in bandwidth "quality" in any of the "Series", they say so themselves... they just offer an external braiding or additional flexibility option, so brand name alone is all we should focus on with them to avoid confusion... Anyway, I have no idea what is going on with your TV, have you contacted Samsung? I have a POS RCA 65" 4K TV and a GTX 950, the cheapest video card with HDMI 2.0 out and have no problems at a full 20 feet with [email protected] 4:4:4 using a KabelDirekt cable. You have a VERY nice television, that's unacceptable to not be able to get that connection.


----------



## INFECTEDWUPGDBUG

Otto Pylot said:


> Do you know what the clock speed is of the 9500's HDMI 2.0 chipset? Just because it's HDMI 2.0 doesn't necessarily mean it's clocked for 17.82Gbps. There's quite a bit of bandwidth variability in the HDMI 2.0 specs. The cable may be able to handle that bandwidth and your source may be pushing that bandwidth but if your tv can't process it....


All I know is many others with my tv have gotten this feature to work.


----------



## INFECTEDWUPGDBUG

danbfree said:


> Just to be clear, with KabelDirekt there is no difference in bandwidth "quality" in any of the "Series", they say so themselves... they just offer an external braiding or additional flexibility option, so brand name alone is all we should focus on with them to avoid confusion... Anyway, I have no idea what is going on with your TV, have you contacted Samsung? I have a POS RCA 65" 4K TV and a GTX 950, the cheapest video card with HDMI 2.0 out and have no problems at a full 20 feet with [email protected] 4:4:4 using a KabelDirekt cable. You have a VERY nice television, that's unacceptable to not be able to get that connection.


Pro series did not work either just tried. As soon as I put HDMI UHD color on I get no signal. Input is labled as PC also tried PC/DVI. Samsung did all the trouble shooting they could and finally told me Samsung does not guarantee third party products to work with the tv.


----------



## danbfree

INFECTEDWUPGDBUG said:


> Pro series did not work either just tried. As soon as I put HDMI UHD color on I get no signal. Input is labled as PC also tried PC/DVI. Samsung did all the trouble shooting they could and finally told me Samsung does not guarantee third party products to work with the tv.


Wow, sorry to hear that, that really makes no sense... do they even make Samsung HDMI cables? Is "HDMI UHD color" actually 10-bit maybe? I know that wouldn't work at a full [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma.


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## INFECTEDWUPGDBUG

danbfree said:


> Wow, sorry to hear that, that really makes no sense... do they even make Samsung HDMI cables? Is "HDMI UHD color" actually 10-bit maybe? I know that wouldn't work at a full [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma.


I have never seen Samsung HDMI cables. They also did not want to help much when I told them my PC is custom built and tried to put all the blame on my pc but told them this pc did work with last years HU9000 model. Thanks for the reply danbfree


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## Otto Pylot

INFECTEDWUPGDBUG said:


> All I know is many others with my tv have gotten this feature to work.


Still doesn't mean that your particular chipset can handle the bandwidth. Components are upgraded as they become available so it's possible that other builds of that model have the capability and supporting chips to properly handle the bandwidth. All Samsung, or any mfr for that matter has to "prove" is that their HDMI 2.0 claim is valid. They don't have to specify the protocol details. The same for cable mfrs. Sounds like you'll have to keep trying different cables until you find one that works.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Still doesn't mean that your particular chipset can handle the bandwidth. Components are upgraded as they become available so it's possible that other builds of that model have the capability and supporting chips to properly handle the bandwidth. All Samsung, or any mfr for that matter has to "prove" is that their HDMI 2.0 claim is valid. They don't have to specify the protocol details. The same for cable mfrs. Sounds like you'll have to keep trying different cables until you find one that works.


It sounds like to me if he's tried cables that have proven to work for everyone else with his model, that his chipset is defective but Samsung has found a way to deny him service... sad.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to bring that up. With tv mfrs nowadays you still have to take their specs with a grain of salt.


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## danbez

What about HDMI cables using Fiber? I assume they would be able to pass 4K 60fps - or am I wrong? For example, this one from Monoprice

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14234


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## Otto Pylot

Buy it and report back to us. Call me a pessimist but I always take mfr claims with a grain of salt. If it sounds too good to be true.......


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## danbfree

danbez said:


> What about HDMI cables using Fiber? I assume they would be able to pass 4K 60fps - or am I wrong? For example, this one from Monoprice
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14234


I'm pretty sure they would work, it looks like that's exactly what they are for is running long distances with the full [email protected] I'm not the type to need or want to pay that much, a lot of us can't even find a 25 foot cable that works.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Buy it and report back to us. Call me a pessimist but I always take mfr claims with a grain of salt. If it sounds too good to be true.......


I hear you, I'm thinking something like this should work too in 25 ft: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12735&seq=1&format=2

It's not "Redmere" but an active cable, if I HAD to have 5 feet longer I would try this next...


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## danbez

Otto Pylot said:


> Buy it and report back to us. Call me a pessimist but I always take mfr claims with a grain of salt. If it sounds too good to be true.......


I may have to as I will need to hook a new JVC projector to the ceiling with a 50' long HDMI cable. The projector is supposed to be shipping in early December, so I will report back once I have it done.


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## Otto Pylot

Chasing windmills. Just install solid core CAT-6/7 ( in conduit) and bite the bullet on HDBT.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

I noticed this thread and thought I'd let you all know: Blue Jeans Cable is a participant (one of the first ten, actually) in the Premium HDMI Cable program and we do have test compliance certificates in hand for several lengths of our Series-FE cable now, including our 15-footer -- we are actually unable to sell these as properly "certified" Premium cables at the moment because HDMI Licensing hasn't sent us the labels yet, but we do have the cables in stock. We've been selling these identical cables for about five years -- didn't need to change anything to meet the Premium spec. 

If anyone has questions, let me know and I'll be happy to answer them -- not just about our cable but also about the Premium Cable spec and program generally. There is also an article on our site, here: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/premium-hdmi-cable.htm
 which contains more info about the spec and the whys and wherefores...

We have no plans to submit our Series-1 cables for Premium testing. We're pretty sure they'd do fine at 20 feet, less certain at 25 (their "high speed" certified length), but the problem is that the testing protocol involves repeated wrapping and unwrapping of the cable around a slender rod, and we're pretty sure this will break the cable/connector interface and result in a failed (and expensive) test. 

One wrinkle in the whole thing is that the Premium spec right now only allows for passive cable. We are working on booster/eq enabled versions for longer runs (no ETA on those yet), including a plenum version, but even though we do plan to fit those with the latest chipsets for full 2.0, 18.0 Gbps support, they still won't be "Premium" certified unless and until the program is expanded to accommodate active cables. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Carrick

Does anyone know if Redmere is available in a 13-15' length? and if not and I get the 25' will it affect my picture? I am getting a new JVC also in a couple weeks. Thanks


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## Otto Pylot

You shouldn't need an active cable at that length. If you go longer than 25', probably. But even then a good passive cable with a thicker gauge wire should work. The only downside is that you will lose some flexibility and there will be an increase in strain on the inputs. There's nothing wrong with using a Redmere cable at lengths shorter than 25' but it is a bit of an overkill as far as cost goes. Admittedly I run a couple of 10' Redmere's but I did that mostly for flexibility but I probably could've gotten away with one of the newer thin passive high speed HDMI cables. At that length are you running the cable in the ceiling or down a wall?


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## Carrick

Otto Pylot said:


> At that length are you running the cable in the ceiling or down a wall?


Coming from the back of a modified armoire/ audio cabinet > into the wall behind it > and then up and over the ceiling directly to the projector.


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## Otto Pylot

If you going up or down the inside of a wall I'd strongly suggest using an 1.5" conduit. At the very least inside the wall. It makes for cable repairs and/or replacement so much easier. Cable requirements and specs are going to change overtime as the technology advances so the only way to "future proof" your cable installation is to use a conduit. In fact, I would add a solid core CAT-6/7 cable (or two) as well, in addition to a pull string), which will really "future proof" your installation. I'm not a fan of running in-wall HDMI cable over long distances for the reasons I just mentioned but you can do it successfully as long as you plan for upgrades and/or repairs. The solid core could be used to extend an ethernet connection or you could actively terminate it for a very reliable HDMI connection. Active termination such as HDBT can be pricey but that's about the best way to future proof a long, in-wall cable run. Just something to think about.


----------



## Carrick

Otto Pylot said:


> If you going up or down the inside of a wall...


I just remembered since it is an exterior wall, it only has 1" firing strips on concrete wall so that will not be an option. I will just put in a channel and then poke through and feed it over the ceiling.


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## Brahmzy

Otto Pylot said:


> You shouldn't need an active cable at that length. If you go longer than 25', probably. But even then a good passive cable with a thicker gauge wire should work. The only downside is that you will lose some flexibility and there will be an increase in strain on the inputs. There's nothing wrong with using a Redmere cable at lengths shorter than 25' but it is a bit of an overkill as far as cost goes. Admittedly I run a couple of 10' Redmere's but I did that mostly for flexibility but I probably could've gotten away with one of the newer thin passive high speed HDMI cables. At that length are you running the cable in the ceiling or down a wall?


Again, unless it specifically the brand new, most recent 18Gbps certified Redmeres from MP's website, do not expect it to work to pass full 18Gbps - they don't. Got burned by this on 4 separate 6 and 10ft Redmeres advertised to pass 18Gbps. Avoid active cables and test test test with 4:4:4 18Gbps!!!


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## Otto Pylot

18Gbps certification is still hit and miss. There are some mfrs who advertise that their cables are tested at 18Gbps but they don't specifically state at what length that testing is done at. Nor are they approved yet by HDMI.org as an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). Any mfr who states that their cables are "tested" at 18Gbps I'd ask for a certificate that states that the length of cable they want to purchase has been tested at that length. 18Gbps is the new snake oil standard. The idea is to sell these cables to the early adopters who have jumped on the 4k bandwagon.


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## Otto Pylot

Carrick said:


> I just remembered since it is an exterior wall, it only has 1" firing strips on concrete wall so that will not be an option. I will just put in a channel and then poke through and feed it over the ceiling.


Yeah, that would make it tough. A channel would be about the only thing you could do. My walls were open so it was easy to add conduit. In the attic the cable is just carefully layed out but enters the conduit at both walls.


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## Carrick

Otto Pylot said:


> The idea is to sell these cables to the early adopters who have jumped on the 4k bandwagon.


That would be me, so I am trying to get setup for the very near future before my PJ arrives. Thanks for all your help, even though WAF is playing a big role.


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## Otto Pylot

Understand completely about the WAF  I think a lot of electronic decisions made around here have that as a major contributing factor.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> 18Gbps certification is still hit and miss. There are some mfrs who advertise that their cables are tested at 18Gbps but they don't specifically state at what length that testing is done at. Nor are they approved yet by HDMI.org as an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). Any mfr who states that their cables are "tested" at 18Gbps I'd ask for a certificate that states that the length of cable they want to purchase has been tested at that length. 18Gbps is the new snake oil standard. The idea is to sell these cables to the early adopters who have jumped on the 4k bandwagon.


This is definitely turning into a buyer-beware situation. Some manufacturers have been making bandwidth claims for years, without any spec in place to say what the standards are and without specifying what the manufacturer's own standards are, even -- so that the bandwidth claim is basically completely meaningless. Couple that with people selling nonsense like "HDMI 2.0 cables" and the like, and there's bound to be confusion. 

The good news is that with the Premium HDMI Cable spec, one will be able to tell from the unique label (which can be scanned to pull up the certification info) that one is actually buying a fully 18.0 Gbps-tested, certified cable. I don't think these will be terribly easy to counterfeit, because the problem is that you've got to get the counterfeit label to scan and give back an applicable certification for the particular brand and length. Counterfeiting the label is easy -- tricking HDMI.org into feeding back false data is not. 

We've got the Premium certs -- not on all of our lengths yet, but on 15, 12, 10, 9, 7 and 5 foot. Index to them, if anyone wants to verify, is here: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/certificationindex.htm

...and I just received e-mail confirmation that our Premium HDMI Cable labels are supposed to arrive tomorrow, so we will shortly have them officially. 

Kurt
BJC


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## Otto Pylot

Nice sales pitch. Will your "premium"cables be reasonably priced or is Blue Jeans going to go the way of Monster/AudioQuest?

Just took a look at your 5' certificate. There is no mention on the cert other than high speed HDMI about bandwidth tested. Is Simplay Labs approved as an ATC by HDMI.org?


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Apologies if it seems inappropriately sales-pitchy. We're very enthusiastic about this as we are first to market with a Premium certified cable. 

All of our certifications pertain to cable we already sell, and we have no plans to increase price. In fact, I'm in the middle of price review and it's even possible we might drop them a bit; our cost profile on this has changed a bit over time as we stopped having to deal with Belden through distribution, though other costs, including termination, have continued to increase. 

And if you do have Series-FE cables from us already -- well, we didn't change anything, so although one without a sticker is not officially a "Premium" HDMI cable, in fact there's no difference, and no need to upgrade. 

As for becoming like Monster -- well, we've always considered ourselves the antidote to Monster, and you can get some flavor of my attitude toward them here: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/legal/mcp/

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

Thanks Kurt. Sounds very promising. I've used your cables and have never had any problem with them. What about Simplay Labs ATC approval by HDMI.org?


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

All of our ATC certificates for Premium cable come from the Simplay ATC in Shenzhen -- if you click through on the links on the certification index page, you can view the actual certificates. Here's the 15-footer:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/15footp.pdf

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> All of our ATC certificates for Premium cable come from the Simplay ATC in Shenzhen -- if you click through on the links on the certification index page, you can view the actual certificates. Here's the 15-footer:
> 
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/15footp.pdf
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


As I said, I read the certificate. There is nothing there that specifies which HDMI 2.0 protocols have been certified, especially 18Gbps, which is what some want.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> As I said, I read the certificate. There is nothing there that specifies which HDMI 2.0 protocols have been certified, especially 18Gbps, which is what some want.


Ah! Sorry if I've not been clear. I'll explain...

There are only six types of certificates. These are: 

Standard (or "category 1"), no Ethernet;
High Speed (or "category 2"), no Ethernet;
Standard, with Ethernet;
High Speed, with Ethernet;
Premium, no Ethernet;
Premium, with Ethernet. 

Each of these involves a full suite of tests. HDMI cables do not really differ in terms of support for protocols, so apart from the Ethernet channel testing which is done on all of the with-Ethernet versions, there's very little of that sort of thing, and there are not different tests for different protocols. There's minimal stuff -- they check the capacitance on the DDC line, they look at the unbalanced impedance for Audio Return Channel, that sort of thing -- but those are very rarely the cause of a test failure anyhow. If a cable fails any mandatory test, it simply fails and gets no certificate -- there's no such thing as, for example, a cable passing all the tests but failing 3D, or Audio Return Channel, and getting a certificate. Any certified cable supports any protocol, except that non-Ethernet cables don't support Ethernet. 

The main thing that fails cables is performance at high data rates. So, while cables do not differ in terms of protocols supported, they do differ in their ability to deliver high bitrates. Here, there are three tiers and again, you either pass a tier or you don't. 

Standard or "Category 1" cables are tested at 742.5 Mbps/channel (triple that for the total data rate). High speed or "Category 2" cables are tested, unequalized, at 1.65 Gbps/channel, and equalized (not with an actual physical equalizer but by applying the equalization mathematically) at 3.4 Gbps/channel, so that's the 10.2 Gbps speed which was the top data rate under HDMI 1.3 and 1.4. Premium cables are tested (and are required to pass) at the Category 2 data rates and THEN are further tested at 6.0 Gbps/channel (total 18.0 Gbps) under additional constraints which involve equalization and another tweak or two (honestly, I should know all of the details, but the testing spec has only been out for a short time and I've not sat down and digested all of the gory details). 

So, when the certification says "Premium HDMI Cable" at the top, that means it's been tested, and has passed, at 18.0 Gbps. You can't get that certificate, or the Premium HDMI Cable labels for the product, without passing 18.0 Gbps; and there are no sub-parts to this at all -- no such thing as a cable that is "Premium" but doesn't support particular protocols. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

Thanks for the detailed explanation. A lot of us here understand that but the majority of the buying public doesn't. Maybe I missed it, but will your cables be advertised as "certified for 18.2Gbps" with a certificate of compliance? That way the general public knows what they are buying and will have a "guarantee" that the length of cable they are purchasing has been tested and certified for 18.2Gbps.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks for the detailed explanation. A lot of us here understand that but the majority of the buying public doesn't. Maybe I missed it, but will your cables be advertised as "certified for 18.2Gbps" with a certificate of compliance? That way the general public knows what they are buying and will have a "guarantee" that the length of cable they are purchasing has been tested and certified for 18.2Gbps.


You know, I hadn't really thought about that particular aspect. We get a bit frustrated with the way that people market HDMI cables -- there's a lot of effort devoted to convincing people that there are different cables required for a lot of different things, all of which in fact are supported by the same cable (and, often, by ALL cables). We are constantly fielding questions about whether the cable will support specific audio formats (the answer to which is always yes, because all cables support all audio formats), for example. 

We resist doing that ourselves -- telling people that this cable "supports" something which, in fact, all cables support -- but we often wonder if we are not doing ourselves a disservice because these somewhat deceptive practices are SO widespread that perhaps one actually has to honor them (while, of course, also taking the time to dispel the myths in articles which many won't read, but which are available for those who are curious). 

I'll be working on this in the coming days. I think that the main point that we need to get across to people is that as a "Premium" HDMI Cable, the product is actually tested and certified at 18.0 Gbps, as opposed to a conventional "high speed" certification which is meant to support all of the 2.0 bandwidth, but which is not actually tested and verified to do so (there's sort of a "cheat" in the spec which is how this is done -- detailed in our article at: http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/premium-hdmi-cable.htm). We have to be careful because we not only want to be completely truthful, but also have to conform to HDMI Licensing's guidance on these things. For example, one is prohibited from using version numbers to describe the cable -- no "this is a true HDMI 2.0 cable" or anything like that. At the same time, of course, one is not prohibited from describing the relationship between the Compliance Testing Specification and the main HDMI spec and the cable -- one can say that the cable has been tested at the highest bitrate permissible under 2.0 and shown to perform at that speed.

The challenge of marketing HDMI cables honestly is a strange one. The dishonesty is so widespread, and most people do not spend a lot of time researching this stuff -- so I am sure that we lose sales on the basis that people have been told that such-and-such cable is good for xvYCC color, while we have never said that ours is, and they conclude, naturally enough, that if it were supported we'd say so. But even saying that a cable "supports" something which all cables support is very much in the sort of dishonesty zone alongside selling "cholesterol-free apples." It's not that the statement is false (because, well, it's not) so much as that the statement carries with it a false implication -- that other apples may not be cholesterol-free -- and that's a slippery slope we've never really wanted to start down. I suppose we could make a long, long list of features supported, and then link the explanatory note right to the list to in effect say: "what we've just told you is nonsense, sort of, in that all of our competitors' products do these same things, too." How to do that, though, and not leave the reader feeling that you've lied, and then corrected the lie in a footnote? 

So our descriptions for that reason tend not to be heavily adorned with feature lists and the like (being as we are actual communications-cabling electronics geeks, they are instead heavily adorned with explanations of things like "return loss" which, I am sure, leave a lot of people wondering what the heck we are on about). We'll certainly let people know that a Premium HDMI Cable with Ethernet covers, as of HDMI 2.0, EVERYTHING -- all features, all bitrates, all resolutions, all protocols, all colorspaces, all types of deep color, all framerates -- everything permissible in the spec. Inevitably we will still be asked "does it support xvYCC? Does it support 16-bit color?" et cetera, and we will just try to make sure that people understand that when we say "everything" we actually mean "everything." 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

Thanks again Kurt for the detailed explanation. Yes, there is a considerable dishonesty within the industry on HDMI cables and mfr. claims. Very similar to HDMI 2.0 when it was first introduced because of the overlap with the upper spec range of HDMI 1.4 and the lower spec range of HDMI 2.0. 

What might be helpful to the majority of the buying public who hasn't a clue what the difference is between HDMI 1.4, 2.0. or HDCP for that matter is to label the cables as "Passive High Speed HDMI Cable Certified for 18.2GBps" and include the cert. that states the length of the cable. If you just label it as Premium "A", "B", "C", what ever that still doesn't give the novice any clue of what they are buying without having to dig around for the difference or come here. I think most who come here only care about 1 kind of cable. High Speed HDMI, of which the cable can be either passive or active. If they want to know if it can pass [email protected], they can look up the details on your site. Most of us recommend Blue Jeans, Monoprice, or Media Bridge anyway because of cost and reliability. So whether the cable is made under pure Nitrogen and sealed in Argon gas with 24k gold connectors makes no difference to us.

It's very encouraging to see BJC beginning the certification process and taking steps to minimize counterfeiting. I just may have to replace my cables with a new set of certified Blue Jeans Cables to be ready once the standard protocols settle down a bit more and mfrs start shipping devices that will support those standards and play nice with each other.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

The cables are here now, by the way -- labels came in yesterday, so they've got the official sticker on 'em. 

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/premium-hdmi-cable.htm

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> The cables are here now, by the way -- labels came in yesterday, so they've got the official sticker on 'em.
> 
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/premium-hdmi-cable.htm
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


I'd be more than happy to check one out for you.


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## Carrick

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> The cables are here now, by the way -- labels came in yesterday, so they've got the official sticker on 'em.


Are they passive or active?


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## xdragus

Newbie to this whole 4k home theatre/receiver business. 

Picked up a vizio 49" 4k tv and an onkyo tx-nr737 (to replace my old tx-nr709 that was a hand me down from my older brother).

I recently picked up some 6ft hdmi cables from infinite cables (capable of handling high speed transition of 13.8Gbps).

Am I going to run into a bottleneck later if i'm not running a cable certified to 18Gbps? I also ordered the monoprice Ultra Slim 18Gbps Active High Speed HDMI® Cable with RedMere (I don't think the product page says they are certified).

Should I cancel my monoprice order or keep it as a means of future proofing.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Carrick said:


> Are they passive or active?


Passive cables, in lengths up to 15 feet. Currently the Premium HDMI Cable spec doesn't permit active cables, though that may change at some point. 

We've always hated active cables, frankly. It's an extra failure point, and they tend to be inherently more bandwidth-limited than passive cable because in design, the rise-time targets and that sort of thing are based upon the needs of the current spec, which of course can change -- hence you now see a lot of boost/EQ units, and a lot of active cables, failing when confronted with a signal beyond the range the chips were designed for. And in a world where the most that the majority of users wanted was 1080p/60, we could typically get a hundred-foot run of our Series-1 cable to handle that, so why go active? But times have changed because of 4K. 

Consequently, we're moving ahead with some active cable projects. The problem, of course, is that at 18.0 Gbps the limitations on passive cable runs are becoming too severe. Our Series-1 probably would pass the electricals at 25 feet, but fail on the basis of flex-life because of the Premium spec's requirement that the cable endure repeated tight wrappings around a pole. And beyond 25 feet, there's not much we could do -- the cable can't get much bigger because the overmold limits in the HDMI spec are absurdly small. 

Chances are that what we'll soon be introducing are (1) a riser-rated series of active cables in 28 AWG (using our existing US-made, bonded-pair Series-FE bulk cable as the base stock) and 26 AWG (probably simply an up-sized version of FE), and (2) a plenum-rated series of the same. All of this, most likely, will be designed with the Premium electricals as the target (though, as I mentioned, they won't be Premium-eligible because the spec doesn't allow active cables). 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Carrick

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> The dishonesty is so widespread, and most people do not spend a lot of time researching this stuff --
> Blue Jeans Cable


Kurt I appreciate your candor and am willing to spend extra for American made, but where can I research whether or not your competitors are legit? Many here tout the Monoprice 18.2 cables that charge $1-$1.50 per foot, but I am a mere mortal and have no clue how to discern the quality. Currently I have in transit a Denon 4200 and JVC Rs 500 (ordered form AVS) so I need to order HDMI and speaker wires today. Thanks

--Carrick


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Well, the first thing I always suggest is: view the certificate. It's not at all uncommon for vendors not to actually hold ATC certificates for the products they sell. We see Chinese vendors all the time who have one certificate for one type of cable, and who present that any time anyone asks for a certificate for any of a wide range of cables they sell. One can't easily be certain what product was actually tested for the certificate, but at least if the vendor HAS a certificate that appears to be applicable to the product in question, that's a start. 

And then, of course, there are always results. HDMI cable failure does tend to be conspicuous, and that means that if things aren't right with a cable you've bought, you should see that failure, at the highest bitrate your system runs, in terms of sparkles, line dropouts, jumping/flashing picture, or, the ultimate in failure, "no picture." You don't need to study and evaluate subtle aspects of picture quality because the cable doesn't fail in subtle ways. 

The HDMI spec is more closely policed than DVI ever was, but I think that the founders of the spec have been a bit disappointed at how difficult it still is to keep down the flow of counterfeit product. Finding the wholly unauthorized products has been fairly straightforward, I think, but the bigger issue is that Adopters get one certificate and then pretend it applies to products it doesn't. That's why, I suspect, we see this anti-counterfeit labeling on the Premium HDMI Cable program -- they really want to tie the individual product to a manufacturer, and tie that label to a specific length of a specific cable, to make enforcement much easier. 

If it didn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, we'd have a full HDMI cable test setup at our shop, and we'd be looking at other vendors' products all the time. What I can say is that we do spend time testing imported Ethernet cable -- a simpler, easier product to build -- and we find that the majority of fully Chinese-made goods are really quite awful, sometimes failing spec by large margins. But we certainly do also know some assembly houses, and some vendors of bulk HDMI cable in China, who do good work. 

Since results do tell the story pretty well, we mostly advise people to make a decision and then plug it in and see -- and if it's going to be an "installed" run in a wall, be sure to plug it in WITHOUT installing it, first, to make sure it works. Then pull it through the wall (gently! HDMI cable is delicate!) and it ought to work just as well installed as uninstalled....

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

xdragus said:


> Should I cancel my monoprice order or keep it as a means of future proofing.


Keep in mind that there is no way to future proof your cabling needs. The only way to really achieve that is to use solid core CAT-6/7 cabling with some sort of active termination such as HDBT, which can be a little pricey. If your cable run requires in-wall installation, then the use of a conduit is advisable. It makes replacing/upgrading cable easy. Personally, for long runs I'd never use HDMI cable unless access was easy. That being said, look at what you want to achieve and decide if 13.8Gbps is going to deliver the bandwidth you will need. If not, the next step up is 18Gbps which is more bandwidth than most will need for quite some time because your devices will have to be able to deliver that bandwidth (blu-ray player, game consoles, STBs, etc). If the BJC cables end up really delivering 18.2Gbps (and I have no reason to doubt that they won't), that would probably be the way to go. Keep in mind that cables are just dumb pipes. They just push data back and fortth. There is nothing magical to them whether they are active or passive. Active cables just achieve the same reliability as passive cables only at longer than the current 25' maximum certification length for HDMI 1.4.


----------



## CycleChem

xdragus said:


> Picked up a vizio 49" 4k tv and an onkyo tx-nr737 (to replace my old tx-nr709 that was a hand me down from my older brother).
> 
> I recently picked up some 6ft hdmi cables from infinite cables (capable of handling high speed transition of 13.8Gbps).
> 
> Am I going to run into a bottleneck later if i'm not running a cable certified to 18Gbps?


If you are using the 737 as the hub of your system, then your current bottleneck is the 737. It is limited to the 10.2 Gbps implementation of HDMI 2.0.


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## Otto Pylot

If that is true then it's a good example of how the mfrs have been screwin' with the consumers. Very similar to what Sony did earlier in the year when they said they were able to flash some of their tv's to HDMI 2.0. All they did was bump the bandwidth to 10.2Gbps, which is the overlap area between HDMI 1.4, which can handle 10.2Gbps as an upper bandwidth and the lower bandwidth range of HDMI 2.0. Once flashed, they could claim HDMI 2.0, which it technically is but not what the consumer thought.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> If that is true then it's a good example of how the mfrs have been screwin' with the consumers. Very similar to what Sony did earlier in the year when they said they were able to flash some of their tv's to HDMI 2.0. All they did was bump the bandwidth to 10.2Gbps, which is the overlap area between HDMI 1.4, which can handle 10.2Gbps as an upper bandwidth and the lower bandwidth range of HDMI 2.0. Once flashed, they could claim HDMI 2.0, which it technically is but not what the consumer thought.


Well, the thing always to understand is that the spec is always backward-compatible and that all new capabilities of the later versions of the spec are OPTIONAL capabilities, so that no old equipment is technically "noncompliant." So, for example, ALL cables which are compliant under any version of the spec are compliant under all versions of the spec. A cable that passed certification under 1.2, before there was any such thing as "high speed" testing, is a 2.0-compliant cable, albeit as a "standard speed" cable. This is one of the reasons (there are a few others) why manufacturers are prohibited (many violate this prohibition, of course) from referring to spec version numbers in selling cables.

If you want full-bandwidth 2.0, then, you don't want to just know that something is compliant -- you want to know whether it supports 18.0 Gbps. Since people don't usually say that sort of thing in spec sheets, the most usual way to detect this is going to be, for sources and displays, to look for support for resolution/framerate combos that require it, e.g., 4K 60fps. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


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## Otto Pylot

That is very true Kurt. In my example above about Sony, the consumer would falsely think that once flashed to HDMI 2.0 they would get all of what HDMI 2.0 has to offer, not knowing or realizing that would only be true up to the allowable bandwidth. It's nice to have a cable that is certified for 18.2Gbps but if you don't have the HDMI chipsets that can pass that bandwidth, you'll never be able to use the cable to its fullest capabilities. A complicated situation for sure. Caveat emptor.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> That is very true Kurt. In my example above about Sony, the consumer would falsely think that once flashed to HDMI 2.0 they would get all of what HDMI 2.0 has to offer, not knowing or realizing that would only be true up to the allowable bandwidth. It's nice to have a cable that is certified for 18.2Gbps but if you don't have the HDMI chipsets that can pass that bandwidth, you'll never be able to use the cable to its fullest capabilities. A complicated situation for sure. Caveat emptor.


What HDMI Licensing recommends is that people shop for features, not version numbers. That's the right advice, certainly, for sources and displays. However, in the realm of cables, it's really about knowing what each of the certifications mean -- the only "feature" difference between cables being Ethernet/no Ethernet, a feature virtually nothing uses anyhow. 

Kurt
BJC


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## xdragus

ah darn thanks for all the information/knowledge shared. Guess I kinda fell into trap of manufacturers slapping the hdmi 2.0 without truly knowing what to look out for . I didn't even think I was going to make the plunge to entry level 4k content at all until those black friday deals popped up with little time to do proper research.

I'm guessing there isn't a lot of 4k content that utilizes the full 18 gbps yet if my main content source is form netflix and youtube.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

xdragus said:


> I'm guessing there isn't a lot of 4k content that utilizes the full 18 gbps yet if my main content source is form netflix and youtube.


Yeah, none, really. The only inquiries I think we've received from people who are actually using the 18 Gbps bandwidth so far involve computer graphics cards. I think there's a Pioneer Elite Blu-Ray player that'll do it, though that's just upscaling and there's very little point -- I think that when we start seeing the new 4K Blu-Ray players that's when we'll see a large uptick in actual full 18 Gbps usage. 

Kurt
BJC


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## CycleChem

If you bought the 737 at this year's black friday sales, you might be able to return it (depending on where you got it). The 646 (which I have) is typically around the same price as the 737 and comes with 3 HDMI's that are the full 18 Gbps.


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## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> What HDMI Licensing recommends is that people shop for features, not version numbers. That's the right advice, certainly, for sources and displays. However, in the realm of cables, it's really about knowing what each of the certifications mean -- the only "feature" difference between cables being Ethernet/no Ethernet, a feature virtually nothing uses anyhow.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC


I agree. What still irks me though is cable and tv mfrs claiming HDMI 2.0 without specifying what the chipsets can actually handle within that spec and all the un-educated consumer read is HDMI 2.0 and they think they have everything they need. The folks that cruise these halls pretty much understand that. Or the ones who come here looking for education realize there's more than just the mfr's claims. Most of the buying public doesn't know or probably even care. I think next year 's models are going to be very eye opening for a lot of people, especially the early adopters.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> What still irks me though is cable and tv mfrs claiming HDMI 2.0 without specifying what the chipsets can actually handle within that spec and all the un-educated consumer read is HDMI 2.0 and they think they have everything they need.


You know, I don't bother following in detail the restrictions on use of the marks except as they pertain to cables, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's some prohibition, or at least restriction, imposed upon manufacturers vis-a-vis use of version numbers. I know that as a cable guy, if I start saying that I sell "HDMI 2.0 Cables" I will get a letter from HDMI Licensing's enforcement people telling me to cut it out. I think the trademark usage guidelines may be available to the public on HDMI.org -- if you see people misusing things like version numbers in a way that's deceptive, I know that HDMI Licensing is very open to hearing complaints about it and following up if they feel the rules have been violated. I think Will Bush is the current enforcement head there. 

Kurt
BJC


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## xdragus

CycleChem said:


> If you bought the 737 at this year's black friday sales, you might be able to return it (depending on where you got it). The 646 (which I have) is typically around the same price as the 737 and comes with 3 HDMI's that are the full 18 Gbps.


Ah won't matter if I return it. Just looked through my tv specs and it doesn't support 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 so my quest for 18.2 Gbps is coming to an end. 

Plus 90% of the tv usage is console gaming on a ps4. Think i'll just wait a few more years for this 4k frenzy to settle and hope more 4k content is available.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> You know, I don't bother following in detail the restrictions on use of the marks except as they pertain to cables, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's some prohibition, or at least restriction, imposed upon manufacturers vis-a-vis use of version numbers. I know that as a cable guy, if I start saying that I sell "HDMI 2.0 Cables" I will get a letter from HDMI Licensing's enforcement people telling me to cut it out. I think the trademark usage guidelines may be available to the public on HDMI.org -- if you see people misusing things like version numbers in a way that's deceptive, I know that HDMI Licensing is very open to hearing complaints about it and following up if they feel the rules have been violated. I think Will Bush is the current enforcement head there.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC


I think it was back in 2010/2011 (?) when HDMI.org requested that cable mfrs drop the hardware spec from their cable nomenclature because it was just too confusing for the public. High Speed covered all the current cable specs, even as you mentioned, some of the specs that never made it to commercial devices (ethernet, Deep Color, etc). That seemed to work until HDMI 2.0 was made official in Sept. 2014, then all hell broke loose it seems. Cable names are very carefully worded so as to make one think that an "HDMI 2.0" cable is somehow different from a High Speed HDMI cable. At the very least it seems that BJC is taking a step in the right direction and backing up their new crop of cables with certification for the length of cable purchased. Now, if we can only get all the new devices to have the HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 chipsets in them to take advantage of the bandwidth everyone will be happy.


----------



## BigScreen

I just went through a bunch of work trying to find a 12-15' HDMI cable that would pass 4K at 4:4:4 at 60 Hz, and I figured I would pass along my experience for the sake of adding to the knowledgebase.

Equipment Used:
- EVGA GeForce GTX 960 04G-P4-3967-KR video card (Win 8.1 64-bit, driver: 359.00)
- Sony XBR43X830C 4K TV (firmware: PKG3.017.0080NAB)

All signals are 3840x2160, 8-bit color, as set in the nVidia Control Panel. 

*Cable #1 - Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (15 Feet) *
*
Signal Result*
30Hz YCbCr444 PASS
60Hz YCbCr444 FAIL (invalid)
60Hz YCbCr422 FAIL (invalid)
50Hz YCbCr422  FAIL (invalid)
30Hz YCbCr422 PASS* (*fails chroma test)
30Hz RGB PASS
60Hz RGB FAIL (invalid)
50Hz RGB FAIL (invalid)
59Hz RGB FAIL (invalid)

I contacted the manufacturer to find out if this cable was capable of running 18 Gbps at the 15' length, as they say in the specs on Amazon and on their web site. They responded by saying that their cables meet a bunch of standards, but that list didn't include 18 Gbps. They went on to imply that it was my equipment that was out of tolerance and causing the issue, and that I should use a shorter cable for better performance. This was in spite of my mention that a 25' cable from AmazonBasics was performing better.

*Cable #2 - AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI CL3 Cable - 25 Feet *
*
Signal Result*
30Hz YCbCr444 PASS
60Hz YCbCr444 FAIL (image appears, but with dark red sparkles and audio static)
59Hz YCbCr444 FAIL (image appears, but with dark red sparkles and audio static)
50Hz YCbCr444 FAIL (image appears, but with dark red sparkles and audio static)
60Hz YCbCr422 FAIL (image appears, but with dark red sparkles and audio static, fails chroma test obviously)
30Hz YCbCr422 PASS* (*fails chroma test obviously)

A replacement cable was ordered from Amazon, but it wasn't any better. The amount of video interference was greater (white sparkles in greater quantity) at first, and after some time, the TV just failed to recognize a signal at all.

This wasn't surprising to me, as 25' is longer than I would have expected to work. The cable was available, so I tried it. It's interesting that it performed better than the Mediabridge cable, and it was 10' longer.

*Cable #3 - Rocketfish™ - 12' In-Wall HDMI Cable - Black Model: RF-HG12501 *
*
Signal Result*
30Hz YCbCr444 PASS
60Hz YCbCr444 PASS
50Hz YCbCr444 PASS
59Hz YCbCr444 PASS
 
To be a completely fair comparison, it would have been nice if this was a 15' cable, but that's not what was available. I needed at least 12' and Mediabridge only offers a 10' and a 15' cable. The Rocketfish cable was on sale at Best Buy for $35, so it's three times the cost of the Mediabridge cable. 

However, Mediabridge says their cable works at 18 Gbps at 15' (even though the certificate they show on their Amazon page is for a 10' cable), so I expected it to work as advertised. I am returning the Mediabridge cable to Amazon as defective because it didn't deliver the advertised performance.

The Rocketfish cable is very stiff, which causes it to stick out from the TV (ports are on the left side, facing left, inset about 3.25"). Given the discussion above and my previous good experience with Blue Jeans Cable, I'm planning to order a 12' cable from them soon.


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## Otto Pylot

Thanks for the post. At this point in time, I wouldn't trust what any of the cable mfrs state about 18Gbps with possibly the exception of BJC. At least they're offering a certificate of compliance that includes 18Gbps for the length of cable purchased with their Premium cables. The stiffness of the Rocketfish was probably due to the wire gauge. Thicker wire gauges tend to do better but the loss of flexibility and input strain is not worth it. Besides, if they offer a certificate of compliance for a certain length of cable that can not be inferred that a longer length will meet the same spec. Deceptive advertising in my book.

If is also possible that the graphics card could be having some sort of negotiation issues. I'm not sure if the standards that go into the HDMI interface on the graphics cards are kept to the same standards as those for tv's, blu-ray players etc. Let us know how the BJC cable works.


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## chilip

I just recently bought a 7 ft Series-FE Belden HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable based on reading this thread and can confirm 4k at 60hz works with no problems. I tested it using a GTX 980 Ti and a Samsung UN40JU7500.


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## Otto Pylot

Good to know. I think the real acid test is going to be cable lengths longer than 10' +.


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## greywarden

chilip said:


> I just recently bought a 7 ft Series-FE Belden HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable based on reading this thread and can confirm 4k at 60hz works with no problems. I tested it using a GTX 980 Ti and a Samsung UN40JU7500.


Was that with 4:4:4 color? Because I can do 60Hz at 4:2:0 color no problem. 

I've tried the Kabledirect Pro 6ft cable and I get a black screen when I try to enable "UHD Color" on my JS9000 with the #1 and #2 input on PC Mode. Am I missing something? I can't seem to find any other info on the subject. I have dual 980Tis and anything over 30fps still looks as smooth as a rusty razor


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## chilip

greywarden said:


> Was that with 4:4:4 color? Because I can do 60Hz at 4:2:0 color no problem.
> (


Yes 4:4:4 works. I have UHD Color on and PC Mode. I used the HDMI input labeled "HDMI/DVI" if that matters. Gaming is smooth at 60fps.


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## BigScreen

I am pleased to report that the new cable I purchased from Blue Jeans Cable is working as expected.

For reference, here is the item description:

_HDMI Cable, BJC Series-FE 28 AWG Belden Bonded-Pair with Ethernet, 12 foot, Black_

The cable was ordered Tuesday (Dec 8th) and it arrived Thursday (Dec 10th). That's an incredibly quick turnaround; faster than Best Buy delivered the Rocketfish cable. Total cost (including USPS Priority Mail shipping) was $38.20, which is just a little more than the Rocketfish cable on sale (which is now on sale for $52.49, but lists for $70).

The construction of the cable looks good. It's not as stiff as the Rocketfish cable, so it's a little more flexible and is able to be routed behind the TV instead of having it stick out the side.

Booting the PC resulted in a perfect 3840x2160 60Hz 4:4:4 signal, without needing any adjustments. I verified the signal on the nVidia Control Panel and by viewing the test images. My GTX960 card allows for YCrCb444 at 8 bits and RGB at 8 bits (full dynamic range) and both passed the test images correctly.

From what I understand, Blue Jeans Cable is one of the first companies to have their cables certified as "HDMI Premium Certified Cable" which means that it has been tested and certified to meet the standards at the length being sold. It comes with a label on the package with a QR code with a tiny hologram dot in the middle. Scanning the QR code with a smartphone scan app leads to downloading the CheckIfReal app, which scans the QR code and detects/verifies the hologram by making you move the camera as it scans at different angles. It then reports back with the attached confirmation screen. It's an interesting process, but I'd rather not have to download an app just to go through the process. I guess that speaks to the level of fraud that's going on in the accessories marketplace.

Based on this, I will definitely look to Blue Jeans Cable instead of playing cable roulette with cheaper cables from now on. It's quite possible that a shorter length of the Mediabridge and AmazonBasics cables might have worked, but both of those were advertised as being capable of 18 Gbps at the length purchased and failed to do so.

The true test of all of this is if/when these higher speeds will be necessary at much longer lengths. BJC says that they have had their FE cables certified up to 15 feet. They say they expect that their Series-1 and 1E cables should be capable of 18 Gbps up to 20 or 25 feet, but we're probably not going to see things go longer than that. Fortunately, the 4K media sources released so far won't need that full bandwidth (from what I understand), but it still underscores the importance of getting well-made cables for those long runs. (I have a 35 foot HDMI cable from BJC that was purchased in 2008, back when it was difficult for some cables to pass just 1080p at those lengths, but I have no idea if it could pass even 10 Gbps that I believe 4K sources need)

Hopefully this information adds to the knowledgebase of which cables will work at [email protected] and 4:4:4 chroma, and I encourage others to provide info on other cables/lengths that achieve this. For those of us in need of a true 18 Gbps cable, such info is invaluable!


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## BigScreen

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks for the post. At this point in time, I wouldn't trust what any of the cable mfrs state about 18Gbps with possibly the exception of BJC. At least they're offering a certificate of compliance that includes 18Gbps for the length of cable purchased with their Premium cables. The stiffness of the Rocketfish was probably due to the wire gauge. Thicker wire gauges tend to do better but the loss of flexibility and input strain is not worth it. Besides, if they offer a certificate of compliance for a certain length of cable that can not be inferred that a longer length will meet the same spec. Deceptive advertising in my book.
> 
> If is also possible that the graphics card could be having some sort of negotiation issues. I'm not sure if the standards that go into the HDMI interface on the graphics cards are kept to the same standards as those for tv's, blu-ray players etc. Let us know how the BJC cable works.


I just posted my first impressions of the 12' BJC cable that I purchased (it worked). Based on my experience in the past couple of weeks with other cables and with researching what was needed and what other people were running into, I'm in complete agreement with you that people should look for that "HDMI Premium" certification for the exact length they're buying to be sure of what they're going to get. That's a new program (BJC just got their stickers, I guess), so not everyone is going to have it right away, but at the very least, look for a manufacturer that goes through the effort of explaining what's going on with the 18 Gbps speeds, instead of just making it a bullet point on their datasheet. And, of course, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work out for you. Amazon was great about taking back the Mediabridge cable, and they sent me a replacement AmazonBasics cable to make sure I didn't get a defective sample.

I also understand from my research that not all source and display devices are guaranteed to be up to spec. If the source is just a little on the low side, and/or the display is a little on the sensitive side, I believe it's possible to run into problems with a fully certified cable. I considered ordering a 15' cable from BJC just to prove to myself and to Mediabridge that a properly-made 15' cable would work in my situation, but since I didn't need those extra 3 feet, why pay for it or deal with the extra cable? I still have the 15' version of the AmazonBasics cable on order (it's backordered), so I may not cancel it just out of curiosity. For $10, it doesn't hurt to have a 15-foot cable around even if it doesn't work for this purpose.


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## Otto Pylot

BigScreen said:


> I also understand from my research that not all source and display devices are guaranteed to be up to spec. If the source is just a little on the low side, and/or the display is a little on the sensitive side, I believe it's possible to run into problems with a fully certified cable.


This is another example of deceptive marketing when it comes to tv's with "HDMI 2.0" inputs. Early adopters are probably going to get burned once UHD/Dolby Vision/HDR gets straightened out because of how loosely the mfrs have played with the HDMI 2.0 claims. The fully compliant HDMI 2.0 chipsets weren't even available early in the year so most of the HDMI 2.0 claims were just small bandwidth boosts. And that was true probably for other devices as well. Now that the chipsets are readily available, or will be for 2016 models, the next big buzzword is 18Gbps. If the chipsets on both ends of the cable chain aren't capable of that bandwidth then the cable won't really matter. Both chipsets have to have to same options otherwise, like anything else in the electronic world, the characteristics drop down to the first common denominator. And then there's HDCP 2.2.........


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## taphil

I got a Samsung 65js8500 and was looking for HDMI cables to run in conduit behind a wall about 20 ft. Maybe I got lucky, but both of the cables I bought work fine at 4k 60Hz, chroma 4:4:4, using Nvidia 970. Verified settings with the test image.

Amazon Basics high speed with Ethernet 25 ft
http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-Supports/dp/B008JR72SO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51KDad0qb-L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0AP6KYQS6N2GJH15ZJ90

Monoprice Commercial Series Professional high speed 20ft
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024001&p_id=3989&seq=1&format=2


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## Otto Pylot

Interesting. The Amazon cable states: _Meets HDMI 1.4 specification (48 bit/px color depth)

_The Monoprice cable states: _10.2Gbps data throughput_


4k/60Hz is possible with an 8-bit panel at 17.82Gbps. HDMI 1.4 can do 1080p/60Hz at 4:4:4 but not 4k. 10.2Gbps is not enough bandwidth to support 4k/60Hz. At least that's what I have in my notes. I would be surprised if you actually have 4k/60Hz at 10.2Gbps. The upper limit of HDMI 1.4 is 10.2Gbps, but you never know...


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## taphil

From what I understand, those cable specs are just minimum specs, and they happen to work at 4K 60Hz 4:4:4. There's no new cable spec for HDMI 2.0.

During my testing, the TV states it's running 4K 60Hz. The Nvidia settings were set at RGB full range, and the test image was passing. I know it was actually working because prior getting 4:4:4 to work, the test images were failing until I looked up instructions on how to change all the appropriate settings. Then I played 4K videos without a problem.


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## Otto Pylot

Minimum specs without certification means nothing. You are lucky so enjoy it. At least your cables are in a conduit. As far as a cable spec for HDMI 2.0 there isn't any. Current passive high speed hdmi cables meet all the specs. The only caveat is 18.2Gbps. There is only one cable mfr who is claiming that their cables are certified for 18.2Gbps, and provide a certificate of compliance for that length of cable you purchase. One can play a 4k video with an HDMI 1.4 chipset.


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## kenoh89

I just got my LC-80UH30U in today and I can't even get 4k to work without the screen turning pink. I've tried different settings. Think it could be the cable? 1080p full chroma works fine though.... 

I'm using a High speed cable "Category 2" from a GTX980ti to HDMI 1 port.




This is the cable I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LGUEERI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

kenoh89 said:


> I just got my LC-80UH30U in today and I can't even get 4k to work without the screen turning pink. I've tried different settings. Think it could be the cable? 1080p full chroma works fine though....


Probably not the cable (I can't think of a way it could be), but it's a bit of a mystery. Usually when we see things like this happen it's a colorspace issue, but colorspace issues are relatively uncommon in HDMI because devices are supposed to communicate about things like colorspace in the handshake. If your source or display have any menus you can pull up that offer different colorspace options (e.g., Y/Cb/Cr, RGB, xvYCC), I'd try seeing if you can set those parameters manually and see if any of 'em work. If there aren't any menus like that -- well, then it's a bit of a mystery. I'd try seeing if power-cycling everything makes it work, because it's always possible that something goofy is happening -- perhaps, for example, your devices boot and default to 1080p with one colorspace, but handle 4K in a different colorspace, and when you switch resolutions the devices fail to recognize that change. 

Good luck with it -- things like that are pretty maddening. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

kenoh89 said:


> I just got my LC-80UH30U in today and I can't even get 4k to work without the screen turning pink. I've tried different settings. Think it could be the cable? 1080p full chroma works fine though....
> 
> I'm using a High speed cable "Category 2" from a GTX980ti to HDMI 1 port.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the cable I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LGUEERI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00


Do you have Deep Color enabled on your tv? If so, try disabling it and see what happens. The cable is just a pipe and like Kurt said, I doubt if it's the cable. Deep Color is a bit of a mystery because it's not clearly defined by all mfrs and is rarely supported, at least that used to be the case. We used to see very similar issues in the past and when Deep Color was disabled, the issues went away. The problem was (is) the tv was looking for data that just wasn't there.


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## kenoh89

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Probably not the cable (I can't think of a way it could be), but it's a bit of a mystery. Usually when we see things like this happen it's a colorspace issue, but colorspace issues are relatively uncommon in HDMI because devices are supposed to communicate about things like colorspace in the handshake. If your source or display have any menus you can pull up that offer different colorspace options (e.g., Y/Cb/Cr, RGB, xvYCC), I'd try seeing if you can set those parameters manually and see if any of 'em work. If there aren't any menus like that -- well, then it's a bit of a mystery. I'd try seeing if power-cycling everything makes it work, because it's always possible that something goofy is happening -- perhaps, for example, your devices boot and default to 1080p with one colorspace, but handle 4K in a different colorspace, and when you switch resolutions the devices fail to recognize that change.
> 
> Good luck with it -- things like that are pretty maddening.
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


I think I know what it is? A few month's back I was dabbling with the display driver by trying to overclock my refresh rate with another display. I remember I deleted a few settings, everything except 1080p. I thought I restored it, guess I didn't  I'm going to upgrade my PC to windows 10, but I haven't backed up my files just in case. Hopefully that will do it...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Good luck with Windows 10.


----------



## pas123

BigScreen said:


> I am pleased to report that the new cable I purchased from Blue Jeans Cable is working as expected.
> 
> For reference, here is the item description:
> 
> _HDMI Cable, BJC Series-FE 28 AWG Belden Bonded-Pair with Ethernet, 12 foot, Black_
> 
> The cable was ordered Tuesday (Dec 8th) and it arrived Thursday (Dec 10th). That's an incredibly quick turnaround; faster than Best Buy delivered the Rocketfish cable. Total cost (including USPS Priority Mail shipping) was $38.20, which is just a little more than the Rocketfish cable on sale (which is now on sale for $52.49, but lists for $70).
> 
> The construction of the cable looks good. It's not as stiff as the Rocketfish cable, so it's a little more flexible and is able to be routed behind the TV instead of having it stick out the side.
> 
> Booting the PC resulted in a perfect 3840x2160 60Hz 4:4:4 signal, without needing any adjustments. I verified the signal on the nVidia Control Panel and by viewing the test images. My GTX960 card allows for YCrCb444 at 8 bits and RGB at 8 bits (full dynamic range) and both passed the test images correctly.
> 
> From what I understand, Blue Jeans Cable is one of the first companies to have their cables certified as "HDMI Premium Certified Cable" which means that it has been tested and certified to meet the standards at the length being sold. It comes with a label on the package with a QR code with a tiny hologram dot in the middle. Scanning the QR code with a smartphone scan app leads to downloading the CheckIfReal app, which scans the QR code and detects/verifies the hologram by making you move the camera as it scans at different angles. It then reports back with the attached confirmation screen. It's an interesting process, but I'd rather not have to download an app just to go through the process. I guess that speaks to the level of fraud that's going on in the accessories marketplace.
> 
> Based on this, I will definitely look to Blue Jeans Cable instead of playing cable roulette with cheaper cables from now on. It's quite possible that a shorter length of the Mediabridge and AmazonBasics cables might have worked, but both of those were advertised as being capable of 18 Gbps at the length purchased and failed to do so.
> 
> The true test of all of this is if/when these higher speeds will be necessary at much longer lengths. BJC says that they have had their FE cables certified up to 15 feet. They say they expect that their Series-1 and 1E cables should be capable of 18 Gbps up to 20 or 25 feet, but we're probably not going to see things go longer than that. Fortunately, the 4K media sources released so far won't need that full bandwidth (from what I understand), but it still underscores the importance of getting well-made cables for those long runs. (I have a 35 foot HDMI cable from BJC that was purchased in 2008, back when it was difficult for some cables to pass just 1080p at those lengths, but I have no idea if it could pass even 10 Gbps that I believe 4K sources need)
> 
> Hopefully this information adds to the knowledgebase of which cables will work at [email protected] and 4:4:4 chroma, and I encourage others to provide info on other cables/lengths that achieve this. For those of us in need of a true 18 Gbps cable, such info is invaluable!


After multiple attempts to connect my Alienware Area 51 with 3 980 GTX SLI with a Samsung 4K Ultra HD Smart Curved LED LCD TV UN55JU670DFXZA
I failed to get a connection via HDMI on port 1 >> 3840x2160 60Hz 4:4:4 signal with HDMI UHD color on..
I tried a bunch of cable.. but no signal.. I'm on the BJC now to put in to test..
Ordered true Amazon will get by Wednesday I just need a 7 footer.
Hunting for a good cable is really a pain with theses new UHD color ON and getting full 3840x2160 60P.. 
Hope this on work.


----------



## kenoh89

Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck with Windows 10.


I somewhat kind of fixed it. I restored the display setting using the custom resolution utility, but I can't get full chroma from RGB, I get YCBCr420. I can select the output color depth to 12bpc, but dynamic range is set to limited? Again, I haven't upgraded to windows 10 yet. other than that I get 4k60hz 4:2:0. I can only select full chroma 4:4:4 when set to 1080p. My display has Spectros color and Rtings says it's possible in 4k, so....?


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

pas123 said:


> I'm on the BJC now to put in to test..
> Ordered true Amazon will get by Wednesday I just need a 7 footer.
> Hunting for a good cable is really a pain with theses new UHD color ON and getting full 3840x2160 60P..


Well, thanks for the order! One small note, just by way of assurance....

Most of our Amazon inventory was shipped to Amazon before we had the labels, and so I don't think the 7 footer you get from Amazon will have the official Premium HDMI Cable label affixed. But rest assured: we didn't change anything, so it's the exact same cable despite the absence of that sticker, and absolutely should do the job (assuming that there isn't some other underlying issue that explains why it's not working). 

Thanks,

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## pas123

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Well, thanks for the order! One small note, just by way of assurance....
> 
> Most of our Amazon inventory was shipped to Amazon before we had the labels, and so I don't think the 7 footer you get from Amazon will have the official Premium HDMI Cable label affixed. But rest assured: we didn't change anything, so it's the exact same cable despite the absence of that sticker, and absolutely should do the job (assuming that there isn't some other underlying issue that explains why it's not working).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable



Thanks for the head up about the label sticker, If you say that it is indeed the same premium cable, great... I really hope your cable work?? 
As for the possible underlying issue:
all I know is turn on HDMI UHD color on and restart the tv, the marked HDMI/DVI (that is only one that UHD work) port is assigned to PC
get your cable and put it to the GTX 980 and I should have native 3840x2160 60P native working from boot. 
if not then: I got the tv to the latest firmware the latest nvida driver. I got all the other resolutions and color mode working with a Amazon HDMI basic cable.. 
What else there is to tweak? turn off SLI, I can do that and work on only 1 GTX 980 and then try another GTX 980. Is there a special set up on the tv beside turning UHD on and renaming the HDMI port?
I like to know?
Thanks Kurt.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

pas123 said:


> What else there is to tweak?


Unfortunately, I have no idea. I have noticed, though, that a LOT of consumer electronics these days ship without full documentation, and so I always make a practice of downloading and examining the product manuals -- especially if I'm having some sort of issue I can't seem to solve. Sometimes the key is buried there, somewhere....

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

kenoh89 said:


> I somewhat kind of fixed it. I restored the display setting using the custom resolution utility, but I can't get full chroma from RGB, I get YCBCr420. I can select the output color depth to 12bpc, but dynamic range is set to limited? Again, I haven't upgraded to windows 10 yet. other than that I get 4k60hz 4:2:0. I can only select full chroma 4:4:4 when set to 1080p. My display has Spectros color and Rtings says it's possible in 4k, so....?


Do you have a 12-bit panel and have you tried to disable Deep Color? A 12-bit panel isn't necessary for 4k but if you're trying to output a color depth that your tv can't handle that could be the problem. I don't know what Spectros color is.


----------



## kenoh89

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Probably not the cable (I can't think of a way it could be), but it's a bit of a mystery. Usually when we see things like this happen it's a colorspace issue, but colorspace issues are relatively uncommon in HDMI because devices are supposed to communicate about things like colorspace in the handshake. If your source or display have any menus you can pull up that offer different colorspace options (e.g., Y/Cb/Cr, RGB, xvYCC), I'd try seeing if you can set those parameters manually and see if any of 'em work. If there aren't any menus like that -- well, then it's a bit of a mystery. I'd try seeing if power-cycling everything makes it work, because it's always possible that something goofy is happening -- perhaps, for example, your devices boot and default to 1080p with one colorspace, but handle 4K in a different colorspace, and when you switch resolutions the devices fail to recognize that change.
> 
> Good luck with it -- things like that are pretty maddening.
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable





Otto Pylot said:


> Do you have a 12-bit panel and have you tried to disable Deep Color? A 12-bit panel isn't necessary for 4k but if you're trying to output a color depth that your tv can't handle that could be the problem. I don't know what Spectros color is.


Well, it seems I finely got it too work, but I only get 4:4:4 chroma 8-bit's  This is a full true 10-bit TV btw.)


I had to turn on the HDMI setting from limited to full and a brings up the message. "Please select full when connected equipment is 4:4:4 capable." not only that, but now every setting, including 1440p is now selectable at [email protected]:4:4, but only 8-bit. the HDMI setting was not in the menu, I had to select HDMI source twice, then select which HDMI port I wanted to turn on that setting to, including some other options. 1440p will be good for certain games, there's a general improvement over 1080p, but what can be seen can't be unseen. 4k is were it's at! The improvement to fine text and detail makes this a practical, if not legitimate desktop HTCP. Now I will start benchmarking. - Again, still on windows 8.1.


BTW, Spectros color is Sharp's version to Samsung's UHD color. It boosts color detail by 21%, achieving over 100% of the DCI-P3 color space and 70% of REC 2020 color space.


----------



## greywarden

*sigh*

So I finally got my Blue Jeans Cable in, the 7ft model, plugged it up to Samsung 48" JS9000 and my rig with two SLI Gigabyte Gaming G1 980Ti cards. 
- Input is set to PC
- UHD color is enabled

No matter what settings I try in Nvidia Control panel I cannot get 4K 60Hz unless it's 4:2:0 color, which is absolutely terrible looking.

I followed this guide: http :// hardforum . com/showthread . php?t=1869675 (sorry, can't post links, yet)

I'm just about at my wits end with this crap. 

Am I missing something???


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

greywarden said:


> No matter what settings I try in Nvidia Control panel I cannot get 4K 60Hz unless it's 4:2:0 color, which is absolutely terrible looking.


Is the control panel failing to acknowledge that the display can take 4:4:4? Or is it failing after you select 4:4:4? If it's the former -- not sure what the issue might be, but on a handshake the devices SHOULD recognize all available resolutions and settings -- that's low-speed data stuff. 

I'm not familiar with the particular TV -- but I do also know that sometimes one sees devices that have UHD enabled on fewer than all ports. Looking at the manual for it online, I don't see any indication that that's the case -- but the manual is quite general and covers a wide variety of models. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## greywarden

4:4:4 is selectable, 60Hz is available in the drop-down menu, but when I apply the setting, the TV goes black, and says "No signal" 

This happens no matter the color depth, RGB/YCbCr or Dynamic Range settings.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

greywarden said:


> 4:4:4 is selectable, 60Hz is available in the drop-down menu, but when I apply the setting, the TV goes black, and says "No signal"
> 
> This happens no matter the color depth, RGB/YCbCr or Dynamic Range settings.


That's really odd. The thing is, if it were a cable issue, I'd expect you to get something -- sparkles or the like -- especially because a 7-footer has about half the attenuation of our 15-footer, which also passes the Premium cable spec. That it drops out entirely suggests to me that some sort of communication just isn't happening -- as though the TV weren't set to UHD and simply couldn't recognize the incoming signal. But I'm at a loss to say what. Have you tried using different HDMI input ports on the TV? 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## greywarden

I have the One Connect box, I've used both #1 and #2 HDMI and HDMI/DVI ports, respectively.

I feel like it's something on my end (computer end) I've triend resetting all the Nvidia Control Panel Settings to default. I've tried the same with the TV. I tried plugging into the other card, but got a black screen again. Disabled SLI, still the same issue. I'll probably have to physically swap the cards, which isn't too much trouble, they're air-cooled.


----------



## BigScreen

greywarden said:


> I have the One Connect box, I've used both #1 and #2 HDMI and HDMI/DVI ports, respectively.
> 
> I feel like it's something on my end (computer end) I've triend resetting all the Nvidia Control Panel Settings to default. I've tried the same with the TV. I tried plugging into the other card, but got a black screen again. Disabled SLI, still the same issue. I'll probably have to physically swap the cards, which isn't too much trouble, they're air-cooled.


Most TV's need to have a certain level of firmware and to have a certain setting enabled to obtain a 4:4:4 result, assuming that they're capable of it at all. Do you have the latest firmware update for the Samsung? I'm using the 359 nVidia drivers, so make sure that you're updated in that regard as well.

According to the rtings review of the JS9000 series, the set can do 4:4:4.



> PC Monitor 1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: Yes
> 1080p @ 120Hz: No
> 4k @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4: Yes
> 4k @ 60Hz: Yes
> 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4: Yes
> It doesn't support an input of 1080p @ 120fps, but handles 4k @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 well. For 4:4:4, turn on UHD Color and use PC mode.



That should give you confidence in knowing that it's possible, so then it's just a matter of figuring out where the problem lies in your scenario. 



Check to make sure that your TV is set to use UHD Color and is set to PC mode for the input that you're using. On the Sony XBR43X830C, this required going into the external inputs section and enabling "enhanced color format" and making sure that the TV was in "graphics" or "game" picture mode, so your Samsung is not alone in having to jump through some hoops to enable 4:4:4.


A 7 foot cable should not present a challenge, length-wise, but getting a good-quality cable should assure you that the cable isn't the problem, so you should be good there.



Are you able to get 4:4:4 at 30 Hz?

If so, then you can be reasonably sure that the TV's settings are correct. Passing the 4:4:4 chroma test would mean that it is possible, and then it's just a matter of upping the speed to 60 Hz. I found that even a 50 foot HDMI cable would pass 4K at 4:4:4 at 30 Hz, so 30 Hz should effectively eliminate the cable as the source of your woes.

If not, then I would look to the TV as the culprit. Perhaps some setting or combination of settings still isn't what it needs to be. 

Double check by going through the references you have found for your set, and if nothing else, try tech support for Samsung. That would be a last resort in my book, as those people tend to be script-readers, but you never know. The HardForum thread would be another resource to look at for support, as would the owners forum for that set on AVS.

Good luck!


----------



## greywarden

BigScreen said:


> Most TV's need to have a certain level of firmware and to have a certain setting enabled to obtain a 4:4:4 result, assuming that they're capable of it at all. Do you have the latest firmware update for the Samsung? I'm using the 359 nVidia drivers, so make sure that you're updated in that regard as well.
> 
> According to the rtings review of the JS9000 series, the set can do 4:4:4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That should give you confidence in knowing that it's possible, so then it's just a matter of figuring out where the problem lies in your scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> Check to make sure that your TV is set to use UHD Color and is set to PC mode for the input that you're using. On the Sony XBR43X830C, this required going into the external inputs section and enabling "enhanced color format" and making sure that the TV was in "graphics" or "game" picture mode, so your Samsung is not alone in having to jump through some hoops to enable 4:4:4.
> 
> 
> A 7 foot cable should not present a challenge, length-wise, but getting a good-quality cable should assure you that the cable isn't the problem, so you should be good there.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you able to get 4:4:4 at 30 Hz?
> 
> If so, then you can be reasonably sure that the TV's settings are correct. Passing the 4:4:4 chroma test would mean that it is possible, and then it's just a matter of upping the speed to 60 Hz. I found that even a 50 foot HDMI cable would pass 4K at 4:4:4 at 30 Hz, so 30 Hz should effectively eliminate the cable as the source of your woes.
> 
> If not, then I would look to the TV as the culprit. Perhaps some setting or combination of settings still isn't what it needs to be.
> 
> Double check by going through the references you have found for your set, and if nothing else, try tech support for Samsung. That would be a last resort in my book, as those people tend to be script-readers, but you never know. The HardForum thread would be another resource to look at for support, as would the owners forum for that set on AVS.
> 
> Good luck!


All firmware and drivers are up to date.

Yeah I know it's 4:4:4 capable, Rtings is the reason why I bought the TV, I've also corresponded with them about the issue, and they pretty much told me the same thing, they don't know why it won't do 60Hz but it's probably a setting somewhere that needs to be adjusted.

I have the #1 and #2 inputs set to PC mode and UHD color enabled. There is a game mode on this TV, but it sets the color to 4:2:0 when enabled to lower the input latency.

I have two cables now, that multiple people in this thread have endorsed to work for them. The BJC FE-series and the Kabledirect Pro, as well as a Vizio that claims 18Gbps.

I do currently have 4:4:4 color (RGB and YCrCb) capability at 30Hz, but nothing higher, not even 50Hz. 

I have reset the TV to default settings before, but I don't feel like that is the ultimate reset (for lack of a better term). I will try doing a clean install of the Nvidia Drivers in the case that it's something in there that is causing the issue. 

I have my last Final of the semester today, that, along side finishing up building a house right now, has my free time completely. I will try the HardForum and JS9000 owners threads to get some help as well.

Thanks for the help!

Oh, I remembered that when I initially set it to 4:4:4 color and 60Hz it actually worked, but the screen would go black randomly for a couple seconds and eventually it just stayed black, does that help any?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sounds like it's either a source (Nvidia) issue or the tv and not the cable. Driver incompatibility?


----------



## R Harkness

BlueJeans cable owner signing in here:


Well this seems like the right thread to post these questions in, as I'm now re-entering the horror show that is the world of HDMI syncing.

My system has the source components in one room, and I use two 45 foot long *BlueJeans Beldon HDMI cables* (the top version rated for longest runs) to the room with my projector. This has worked great for the last 5 years, passing 1080p, 3D and also 4K signals (1080p upscaled to 4K and output from my Lumagen video processor) with no problems.

BUT...I just replaced my JVC projector (2 years old) with the latest model and now I can't get a picture. The latest models are fully UHD compatible *"Dual Full Speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 Compatible Inputs"* specs here:

http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029573&pathId=140&page=10

Hooking up the new projector to the existing HDMI cable run (back to my Lumagen doing the video switching) completely freezes the projector, not only no picture, it makes it unresponsive to all commands. I tried bypassing the Lumagen etc, running the one of the 45 foot HDMI cables directly into the projector, and that works fine. So it's something about the communication with the Lumagen.

On bringing this up in the Lumagen threads, they are suggesting I'm probably running up against a cable limitation - the chips in the Lumagen, and now my new JVC, are a bit more demanding and finicky, so this long passive run may have met it's match.

Does that sound about right to folks here?

(It's been suggested I place the Lumagen VP at the end of the long HDMI cable run, and run a 6 foot HDMI cable from the Lumagen into the projector, and if that works it suggests cable limitations being the culpurite).

Anyway....IF I have to re-cable like everyone else I want to do it right, especially as the cables run through basement ceilings through rooms etc. 

Would a redmere type cable of 45 feet be a good bet? Or an HDMI Balun? I'm not sure what the advantages of one over the other are.

Finally, I see people say that Cat 6/7 is the cable to run if you just want to be more future proof. So why isn't everyone just using Cat 6/7 rather than fooling around rolling dice on all the HDMI cables? Would it make sense to just go Cat cables? (I guess they just terminate them with HDMI connectors or something?)

Thanks!


----------



## BigScreen

greywarden said:


> All firmware and drivers are up to date.
> 
> Yeah I know it's 4:4:4 capable, Rtings is the reason why I bought the TV, I've also corresponded with them about the issue, and they pretty much told me the same thing, they don't know why it won't do 60Hz but it's probably a setting somewhere that needs to be adjusted.
> 
> I have the #1 and #2 inputs set to PC mode and UHD color enabled. There is a game mode on this TV, but it sets the color to 4:2:0 when enabled to lower the input latency.
> 
> I have two cables now, that multiple people in this thread have endorsed to work for them. The BJC FE-series and the Kabledirect Pro, as well as a Vizio that claims 18Gbps.
> 
> I do currently have 4:4:4 color (RGB and YCrCb) capability at 30Hz, but nothing higher, not even 50Hz.
> 
> I have reset the TV to default settings before, but I don't feel like that is the ultimate reset (for lack of a better term). I will try doing a clean install of the Nvidia Drivers in the case that it's something in there that is causing the issue.
> 
> I have my last Final of the semester today, that, along side finishing up building a house right now, has my free time completely. I will try the HardForum and JS9000 owners threads to get some help as well.
> 
> Thanks for the help!
> 
> Oh, I remembered that when I initially set it to 4:4:4 color and 60Hz it actually worked, but the screen would go black randomly for a couple seconds and eventually it just stayed black, does that help any?


Given that you are able to do 4:4:4 at 30 Hz, the TV should be setup correctly. Did you mention that you're trying to run 12 bits? If so, does it work at 8 bits?

I seem to remember that you're running two cards in an SLI arrangement. You might want to try using just one card to see if you get different results. I would try each card, just to be thorough. You've tried every input on the TV, which is also something that I've heard should be tried.

It's quite mysterious as to why you would be having issues with such a short run. At this point, I think you're headed down the path of trying just about anything that makes even a little sense in order to figure it out. I'm at a loss for anything more than what I've mentioned here.


----------



## Otto Pylot

R Harkness said:


> Finally, I see people say that Cat 6/7 is the cable to run if you just want to be more future proof. So why isn't everyone just using Cat 6/7 rather than fooling around rolling dice on all the HDMI cables? Would it make sense to just go Cat cables? (I guess they just terminate them with HDMI connectors or something?)
> 
> Thanks!


Solid core CAT6/7 (not CAT6/7 patch cable) is recommended in a conduit for long runs where a Redmere cable won't do or one wants to "future proof" their cabling. The downside is that they need active termination if you want to use them for extended a/v connections and not just an extended ethernet connection. The active termination used is HDBT (HD-BaseT) and can be a little expensive, hence the hesitation to use them. The problem, as I see it, with HDMI cables, even certified ones (certified for HDMI 2.0 hardware specs), is going to be length. The current, accepted certification for passive HDMI cables is 25'. After that an active cable with Redmere (or similar) technolgy should be used but even then, there are limitations. As video demands increase over time, HDMI cables will need to be upgraded/changed. A solid core CAT-6/7 cable will probably meet the new standards and demands longer than an HDMI cable. Replacing a solid core cable in a conduit is a lot easier than replacing an HDMI cable. As far as active HDMI cables go, it is possible that the chipset in the sink ends can fail like any other electronic device or the chipsets won't be able to keep up with the needed timing for higher bandwidths and will need to be replaced sooner than one wants. I'm not a big fan of HDMI but it's what we are stuck with so planning ahead is a good idea. A 1.5" conduit with a couple of solid core CAT-6/7 cables, along with your HDMI cable of choice, and a pull-string should keep you ahead of the game for quite some time. Just make sure you leave service loops at both ends for ease of adding connectors, etc.

I use solid core CAT-6 to extend my ethernet connection so I don't have to depend on WiFi for my HTS. The connector is punch down Keytsone jacks to which I've connected CAT-6 patch cable to a gigabit switch.


----------



## R Harkness

Otto Pylot said:


> A 1.5" conduit with a couple of solid core CAT-6/7 cables, along with your HDMI cable of choice, and a pull-string should keep you ahead of the game for quite some time. Just make sure you leave service loops at both ends for ease of adding connectors, etc.


Thank you very much for that helpful reply Otto!

So it seems to me, the message is: if you don't mind paying the price, go for CAT-6/7 cable!
It can be terminated with HDMI connectors to just the right length, and will also be lighter more flexible and possibly more reliable than active HDMI cables, if I've got that right.


----------



## Otto Pylot

R Harkness said:


> Thank you very much for that helpful reply Otto!
> 
> So it seems to me, the message is: if you don't mind paying the price, go for CAT-6/7 cable!
> It can be terminated with HDMI connectors to just the right length, and will also be lighter more flexible and possibly more reliable than active HDMI cables, if I've got that right.


Almost. Solid core CAT-6/7 is not as flexible as Redmere cables because the wires are solid, not twisted pairs (like a patch cable). One of the advantages of Redmere cables is that they are small gauge wires but can maintain the HDMI specs because of the "built-in" active termination. Solid core CAT-6 needs active termination (hence HDBT) if you are going to push video from say a media server 70' away to a tv. If you are going to extend an ethernet connection only, you don't need to terminate it actively (basically adding power). So, to push a/v over solid core CAT-6 you need to actively terminate it (same idea as a Redmere cable). The advantage of solid core is higher bandwidth capabilities. If you want to use solid core CAT-6 for just extending an ethernet connection, you don't need to actively terminate and can wire it to an RJ-46 connector.


----------



## danbez

Otto Pylot said:


> Almost. Solid core CAT-6/7 is not as flexible as Redmere cables because the wires are solid, not twisted pairs (like a patch cable). One of the advantages of Redmere cables is that they are small gauge wires but can maintain the HDMI specs because of the "built-in" active termination. Solid core CAT-6 needs active termination (hence HDBT) if you are going to push video from say a media server 70' away to a tv. If you are going to extend an ethernet connection only, you don't need to terminate it actively (basically adding power). So, to push a/v over solid core CAT-6 you need to actively terminate it (same idea as a Redmere cable). The advantage of solid core is higher bandwidth capabilities. If you want to use solid core CAT-6 for just extending an ethernet connection, you don't need to actively terminate and can wire it to an RJ-46 connector.


Otto, correct me if necessary but I believe that we don't have a HDBT solution for 4K/60Hz yet. So even if one invests in such cable, this would not be an immediate solution yet.

I am in the same boat as Rich. New JVC projector, 50 feet long cable, no 4K/60Hz signal in the other end. Because of the current limitation with HDBT, I decided to go with a fiber optic HDMI cable. In theory, I can get up to 300 feet with that one. Monoprice has a 75ft one and I hope to have it installed just after Christmas.

If anyone has any experience with those fiber optic HDMI cables please shout before I install them 

Daniel.


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## HDPERSON

R Harkness said:


> BlueJeans cable owner signing in here:
> 
> 
> Well this seems like the right thread to post these questions in, as I'm now re-entering the horror show that is the world of HDMI syncing.
> 
> My system has the source components in one room, and I use two 45 foot long *BlueJeans Beldon HDMI cables* (the top version rated for longest runs) to the room with my projector. This has worked great for the last 5 years, passing 1080p, 3D and also 4K signals (1080p upscaled to 4K and output from my Lumagen video processor) with no problems.
> 
> BUT...I just replaced my JVC projector (2 years old) with the latest model and now I can't get a picture. The latest models are fully UHD compatible *"Dual Full Speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 Compatible Inputs"* specs here:
> 
> http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029573&pathId=140&page=10
> 
> Hooking up the new projector to the existing HDMI cable run (back to my Lumagen doing the video switching) completely freezes the projector, not only no picture, it makes it unresponsive to all commands. I tried bypassing the Lumagen etc, running the one of the 45 foot HDMI cables directly into the projector, and that works fine. So it's something about the communication with the Lumagen.
> 
> On bringing this up in the Lumagen threads, they are suggesting I'm probably running up against a cable limitation - the chips in the Lumagen, and now my new JVC, are a bit more demanding and finicky, so this long passive run may have met it's match.
> 
> Does that sound about right to folks here?
> 
> (It's been suggested I place the Lumagen VP at the end of the long HDMI cable run, and run a 6 foot HDMI cable from the Lumagen into the projector, and if that works it suggests cable limitations being the culpurite).
> 
> Anyway....IF I have to re-cable like everyone else I want to do it right, especially as the cables run through basement ceilings through rooms etc.
> 
> Would a redmere type cable of 45 feet be a good bet? Or an HDMI Balun? I'm not sure what the advantages of one over the other are.
> 
> Finally, I see people say that Cat 6/7 is the cable to run if you just want to be more future proof. So why isn't everyone just using Cat 6/7 rather than fooling around rolling dice on all the HDMI cables? Would it make sense to just go Cat cables? (I guess they just terminate them with HDMI connectors or something?)
> 
> Thanks!



I purchased the $19.95 18GB certified Belkin HDMI and found it to be no big deal. I replaced it with Zatix HDMI, a two pack for about $6 and found it was better. Redmere will help in long distance HDMI work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbez said:


> Otto, correct me if necessary but I believe that we don't have a HDBT solution for 4K/60Hz yet. So even if one invests in such cable, this would not be an immediate solution yet.
> 
> I am in the same boat as Rich. New JVC projector, 50 feet long cable, no 4K/60Hz signal in the other end. Because of the current limitation with HDBT, I decided to go with a fiber optic HDMI cable. In theory, I can get up to 300 feet with that one. Monoprice has a 75ft one and I hope to have it installed just after Christmas.
> 
> If anyone has any experience with those fiber optic HDMI cables please shout before I install them
> 
> Daniel.


danbez - you could be correct so I'll have to look into that. I do know that there are some limitations to current HDBT so installing solid core CAT-6/7 would be for future use. With two cables one could certainly extend and ethernet connection if needed and "save" the other one for a/v use. I'm not up to speed on the FO HDMI cable so let us know how that works. I'd be very interested.


----------



## rboster

R Harkness said:


> BlueJeans cable owner signing in here:
> 
> 
> Well this seems like the right thread to post these questions in, as I'm now re-entering the horror show that is the world of HDMI syncing.
> 
> My system has the source components in one room, and I use two 45 foot long *BlueJeans Beldon HDMI cables* (the top version rated for longest runs) to the room with my projector. This has worked great for the last 5 years, passing 1080p, 3D and also 4K signals (1080p upscaled to 4K and output from my Lumagen video processor) with no problems.
> 
> BUT...I just replaced my JVC projector (2 years old) with the latest model and now I can't get a picture. The latest models are fully UHD compatible *"Dual Full Speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 Compatible Inputs"* specs here:
> 
> http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029573&pathId=140&page=10
> 
> Hooking up the new projector to the existing HDMI cable run (back to my Lumagen doing the video switching) completely freezes the projector, not only no picture, it makes it unresponsive to all commands. I tried bypassing the Lumagen etc, running the one of the 45 foot HDMI cables directly into the projector, and that works fine. So it's something about the communication with the Lumagen.
> 
> On bringing this up in the Lumagen threads, they are suggesting I'm probably running up against a cable limitation - the chips in the Lumagen, and now my new JVC, are a bit more demanding and finicky, so this long passive run may have met it's match.
> 
> Does that sound about right to folks here?
> 
> (It's been suggested I place the Lumagen VP at the end of the long HDMI cable run, and run a 6 foot HDMI cable from the Lumagen into the projector, and if that works it suggests cable limitations being the culpurite).
> 
> Anyway....IF I have to re-cable like everyone else I want to do it right, especially as the cables run through basement ceilings through rooms etc.
> 
> Would a redmere type cable of 45 feet be a good bet? Or an HDMI Balun? I'm not sure what the advantages of one over the other are.
> 
> Finally, I see people say that Cat 6/7 is the cable to run if you just want to be more future proof. So why isn't everyone just using Cat 6/7 rather than fooling around rolling dice on all the HDMI cables? Would it make sense to just go Cat cables? (I guess they just terminate them with HDMI connectors or something?)
> 
> Thanks!





Otto Pylot said:


> Solid core CAT6/7 (not CAT6/7 patch cable) is recommended in a conduit for long runs where a Redmere cable won't do or one wants to "future proof" their cabling. The downside is that they need active termination if you want to use them for extended a/v connections and not just an extended ethernet connection. The active termination used is HDBT (HD-BaseT) and can be a little expensive, hence the hesitation to use them. The problem, as I see it, with HDMI cables, even certified ones (certified for HDMI 2.0 hardware specs), is going to be length. The current, accepted certification for passive HDMI cables is 25'. After that an active cable with Redmere (or similar) technolgy should be used but even then, there are limitations. As video demands increase over time, HDMI cables will need to be upgraded/changed. A solid core CAT-6/7 cable will probably meet the new standards and demands longer than an HDMI cable. Replacing a solid core cable in a conduit is a lot easier than replacing an HDMI cable. As far as active HDMI cables go, it is possible that the chipset in the sink ends can fail like any other electronic device or the chipsets won't be able to keep up with the needed timing for higher bandwidths and will need to be replaced sooner than one wants. I'm not a big fan of HDMI but it's what we are stuck with so planning ahead is a good idea. A 1.5" conduit with a couple of solid core CAT-6/7 cables, along with your HDMI cable of choice, and a pull-string should keep you ahead of the game for quite some time. Just make sure you leave service loops at both ends for ease of adding connectors, etc.
> 
> I use solid core CAT-6 to extend my ethernet connection so I don't have to depend on WiFi for my HTS. The connector is punch down Keytsone jacks to which I've connected CAT-6 patch cable to a gigabit switch.


Rich: What Otto has described is a set up change I made recently when having sync issues with my JVC 57. I too have made the change to the new JVC 500. It should arrive tomorrow. I'll be running it through it's paces over the weekend. 

My set up includes the HDbaseT extender, with solid core Cat6 cables between the transmitter and receiver. I am using the two monoprice (I think they call them commerical HDMI cables) at both ends. 

Since getting my 57 back from Mendtronix couple months ago with the new cables, I never had another sync issue. I assume one of the problems was the redmere cable not playing nice with the Lumagen mini. 

Fingers crossed the startup and syncing goes smooth this weekend. I'll report back either way.

Ron

PS: It was JVC that insisted that exact cabling change for anything longer than 30 ft between sources and their projector.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Valens are pedalling fast to keep up with HDMI.org - http://www.valens.com/products/vs2000

Solid core (non-CCA) CAT6 is the best option for HDBT.


Joe


----------



## R Harkness

Ron,

Thanks. That's not good to hear it didn't work with the redmere cable. I was just about to pull the trigger on a monoprice redmere cable to try that out.

What a F#cking headache! If only once a new piece of equipment I bought would just work.


----------



## R Harkness

Ok, 

I've batted around various options and it looks like I'm going to try this. I'll get a redmere 4K cable around 50 ft or so and try it, to see if it works. If it does, I'll run it through my wall.

I'm looking at two possibilities. One is the monoprice:

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13760

But the thing is I wouldn't get it shipped to Toronto until the new year apparently. (Says the delivery estimate). If I want to get one earlier I could order this redmere cabe from here:

http://www.wallmountsolution.com/ac...ith-ethernet-arc-3d-ready-1080p-up-to-4k.html

Those cables should be technically equivalent shouldn't they? Or am I missing something?


----------



## Otto Pylot

The Luxe cable states 4k/60Hz @ 18Gbps up to 50' so it would appear that the 50' active cable may work. The WallMount cable just states that it exceeds 10.2Gbps so I wouldn't consider them equivalent based on their market-speak. However, we get back to the certification question. Neither cable mentions anything at all about how their speed claims are substantiated so without a certificate of compliance for the cable length you purchased it may work reliably or not. I would feel more comfortable with the Monoprice cable, but thoroughly test it before installation.


----------



## R Harkness

Thanks again Otto. That leaves me with a time dilemma still, but the feed back is helpful.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Choose wisely Grasshopper


----------



## olegg

Anyone know what cable would output 3840x2160/60p (YCbCr4:2:0 8bit) for sure?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Any well made passive High Speed HDMI cable up to about 25'. All you need for 4:2:[email protected] on an 8-bit panel is a bandwidth of 8.91Gbps. It's not necessarily the cable but the HDMI 1.4/2.0 chipsets on both sides of the cable in the source/sink sides.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

R Harkness said:


> On bringing this up in the Lumagen threads, they are suggesting I'm probably running up against a cable limitation - the chips in the Lumagen, and now my new JVC, are a bit more demanding and finicky, so this long passive run may have met it's match.


First, my apologies for being slow to respond -- I thought I was still getting e-mails as messages posted to this thread but I wasn't. 

Unfortunately, yes, that's pretty likely. The Series-1 cables have excellent performance but there's only so much passive cable can do as the bitrate keeps going up. 18 Gbps is one heck of a fast connection. 

We are in development on longer-length 18 Gbps solutions. Right now I have got cable on the way, and we are trying to figure out how long an active cable we'll be able to support when the next Redmere/Spectra7 chips are out, which should be soon. But those products are still at least a few months out so right now I have nothing to offer.

On the Cat 6/7 question: right now, the best way to get HDMI down a Cat 6 cable is HDBaseT -- and HDBaseT still doesn't support HDMI past 1.4, so no 18 Gbps to be had there. I am waiting, eagerly, for HDBaseT to announce that they're coming out with the updated spec to handle HDMI 2.0 bandwidth but have seen nothing yet. Maybe at CES (only two weeks away)? 

Further on Cat 6: don't make the mistake many people do, which is to assume that something that's labeled "Cat 6" really is Cat 6. The amount of outright fraud in data cabling is astonishing -- our tests show that about 80% of the mass-market patchcords labeled at Cat 6 or 6a don't pass their specs, and more than half don't even pass 5e. This is true for well-regarded web retailers, hardware and office supply stores -- it's true pretty much everywhere except in the actual data-center market. You want to buy Cat 6 or 6a from a vendor who actually tests each assembly; or, if you're buying horizontal cable for installation, you want to buy from somebody good -- we like Belden, but other names like Systimax, Berk-Tek and the like are also good. This is a good area in which to "buy American" as the quality of American data cabling is far superior to the typical Chinese product (it's not that there aren't good Chinese products -- it's that they are so few in number that your odds, with any vendor, simply aren't very good that they've sourced the good stuff). We have actually started carrying horizontal cable under the Blue Jeans Cable name but with the holiday season, we haven't yet had time to get it up on the website yet...coming soon....

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Further on Cat 6: don't make the mistake many people do, which is to assume that something that's labeled "Cat 6" really is Cat 6. The amount of outright fraud in data cabling is astonishing -- our tests show that about 80% of the mass-market patchcords labeled at Cat 6 or 6a don't pass their specs, and more than half don't even pass 5e.


This is true but that's why we recommend solid core CAT-6/7 and not patch cord cables. There is a definite difference. But yes, customers need to do their homework and understand the difference between the two and buy something that is Made in the U.S.A. from someone like Belden.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> This is true but that's why we recommend solid core CAT-6/7 and not patch cord cables. There is a definite difference. But yes, customers need to do their homework and understand the difference between the two and buy something that is Made in the U.S.A. from someone like Belden.


Well, the problem's not limited to patch cords, though. The main issues are bad impedance and crosstalk control, and these are just as difficult to get right in horizontal cable as in patch. Going to solid conductors (our patch cords are all solid, by the way) helps marginally by making the conductor profile more consistent, but the big issues have to do with consistency in dielectric sizing and assembly, control over twist rates, and that sort of thing. We haven't done a comprehensive survey of Chinese horizontal cable, but what we have seen has been awful. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## R Harkness

Terrific and very helpful information. Thank you Kurt!


----------



## Otto Pylot

I guess I'm lucky then because I've never had any issues with solid core CAT-6 that I've purchased and used. I think I bought my last 100' spool from Home Depot (in-store, not online) and it has worked perfectly for me.


----------



## Pyrex238

Hey guys, just finished reading every post. 

I arrived here are some rather odd experiences similar to many of you, except with some differences.

I have had issues with short cables as well. I originally started with a monoprice redmere 10' cable, it does actually work from my TV (Vizio M70C3) to my receiver (Onkyo RZ800). However, I could not get a solid signal when trying to bump up to 60hz (using a 980ti gpu). I would get a pink/green skewed and cropped picture, but it would always work at 30hz. I connected my pc directly to the redmere TV cable and it worked, so I figured my problem was the cable from my pc to the receiver. I picked up another matching 3' monoprice redmere cable, and I got the same result. I started to think maybe it was my receiver. I purchased a KabelDirekt 3' TOP cable, and it worked! Yay, right? Two weeks later it stopped working, and back to the same pink/green picture. I'm about to buy a fourth HDMI KabelDirekt PRO cable, hoping it works, but having these experiences is getting frustrating. It seems there's no consensus on ANY cable to just works at 60hz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At under 10' a Redmere cable is an overkill. There are no advantages of a Redmere other than maintaining HDMI protocols over longer distance using a thinner gauge cable. I would use a certified passive high speed cable at that length, it's cheaper. It could be that the timing in the active cable chipset is just not robust enough for 60Hz.


----------



## Flash676

It's interesting that some people are having issues with cables that work fine for me.

For 4K/60Hz/4:4:4:

1 of my 4 AmazonBasics cables works fine. Two skew green/pink at rates above 30Hz and one gives a blank screen, though the PC still reports the TV as connected. The one that works isn't even all that new (2013, High Speed with Ethernet) but it is noticeably thicker than the other three. I think it's 15'.

I purchased 2 Mediabridge Ultra cables in early December and they work fine as well. The Amazon product page states 18gbps support as does their website. The lengths are both 6'.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Just be careful. A lot of cable mfrs are stating 18Gbps but very few actually can produce a certificate of compliance that states the length of cable you purchased has been tested and rated to pass the current HDMI 2.0 hardware protocols at 18.2Gbps. Some do work, most don't. And as far as the ones that apparently do work, it is unknown as to how long they will continue to work once peripheral devices are capable of using 18.2Gbps on a continual basis. For 18Gbps, I think the wire gauge is the critical factor so far. However, the thicker the gauge, the less flexible the cable becomes (narrower bend radius) and the more strain on the input ends so those two aspects need to be considered as well.


----------



## danbfree

Flash676 said:


> It's interesting that some people are having issues with cables that work fine for me.
> 
> For 4K/60Hz/4:4:4:
> 
> 1 of my 4 AmazonBasics cables works fine. Two skew green/pink at rates above 30Hz and one gives a blank screen, though the PC still reports the TV as connected. The one that works isn't even all that new (2013, High Speed with Ethernet) but it is noticeably thicker than the other three. I think it's 15'.
> 
> I purchased 2 Mediabridge Ultra cables in early December and they work fine as well. The Amazon product page states 18gbps support as does their website. The lengths are both 6'.


After following this thread and from my own experiences, the ONLY real issue is length. I think just about any 6' "high speed" cable will work, it's those of us who need to run longer lengths that are having issues... But yes, the certification process for 18.2gbps is only in its infancy. So in the mean time, simply use the shortest and thickest High Speed cable you can get away with if you need to go beyond 10 feet. Like you said, the thickest one you have is what works at 15'. Other than a rare temporary "cutout" for me, KabelDirekt seems to work well up to at least 20 feet. Any of their varieties are fine, they are all the same internally... Maybe we can post results of what brand and what length (15'+) works for us with [email protected] w/4:4:4.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> For 18Gbps, I think the wire gauge is the critical factor so far. However, the thicker the gauge, the less flexible the cable becomes (narrower bend radius) and the more strain on the input ends so those two aspects need to be considered as well.


Actually, the big issue here is impedance stability -- that is, it's all about fine dimensional control in cable manufacturing, and good termination practices. AWG will affect the overall attenuation, but the critical consideration isn't how much energy is lost from the signal but how much the rise/fall events at transitions get smeared. The sharpness of rise/fall events is affected by the fact that return loss gets worse (though -- and this is part of the problem -- quite unevenly sometimes) with higher frequencies, and most of the energy that keeps those transitions sharp is at the high end of the energy spectrum of the HDMI signal. A 6 Gbps signal in a pair (there are three data pairs and a clock pair in HDMI, so a full-bandwidth 18 Gbps signal is 6 Gbps/pair) has a 3 GHz fundamental, and the sharpness is in odd harmonics (a square wave being a sum of the fundamental and a series of odd harmonics) so that performance at 9 GHz is important. The wavelength at that point is absurdly short -- 2.2 centimeters in a solid PE dielectric -- and this means that all sorts of minimal inconsistencies and periodicities in cable manufacture come into play. 

And that, it bears saying, is why nobody ever, ever tries to shove that much data down twisted pairs in any other context without doing something to squish the required bandwidth down, such as multilevel encoding. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

The science is sound but most of us recommend a solid core (not twisted pair) CAT-6/7 with active termination (HDBT) for runs longer than the "magic" number of 25'. Even HDBT has drawbacks but those should be overcome in the coming year. For me, I'd never use an HDMI cable longer than 25'. Even well made cables such as BJC will have issues at longer lengths depending on how rigorous the certification process is for a given length and if that certification process meets/exceeds the requirements that HDMI.org will, or has required.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> The science is sound but most of us recommend a solid core (not twisted pair) CAT-6/7 with active termination (HDBT) for runs longer than the "magic" number of 25'. Even HDBT has drawbacks but those should be overcome in the coming year. For me, I'd never use an HDMI cable longer than 25'. Even well made cables such as BJC will have issues at longer lengths depending on how rigorous the certification process is for a given length and if that certification process meets/exceeds the requirements that HDMI.org will, or has required.


Short cable may indeed be the only answer to some of the problems 2.0 creates. HDBaseT is great, but it should be noted that right now there's no accommodation of HDMI 2.0 under HDBaseT (I'm hoping for an announcement at CES that will change that...) and so there's no "works now" solution for full 18 Gbps using HDBaseT. 

The official certification processes all do meet the requirements established by HDMI.org (or, as I usually call it, "HDMI Licensing")--that's who writes the Compliance Testing Specifications for all licensed equipment. There are unofficial certifications, which range from credible (e.g., UL and DPL) to worthless (e.g., manufacturers' "house" certifications represented as data rates on retail packages, which may not be supported by any testing, have no published criteria, and basically don't really exist), but the official certifications, from HDMI Authorized Testing Centers, are all based on the official HDMI Compliance Testing Specifications. So when you're looking at a certificate, it should be clear -- if the certifying laboratory is listed on HDMI.org as an Authorized Testing Center, it's good; if it's not, you still don't know what the official certification (if any) for the product says. 

By the way, when you say "solid core (not twisted pair) CAT-6/7" I think you're getting confused. All Cat 6 or 7 cable is twisted pair. Solid versus stranded is the choice here, and the differences are only that stranded gives greater flexibility but will slightly compromise return loss. But whether the wire is solid or stranded, it'll be twisted-pair -- without that, crosstalk would be through the roof. Solid or stranded cables can be excellent -- that's not a really good criterion for choosing -- the biggest thing is to know that the stuff actually meets the spec requirements. In patch you can know that by demanding test reports; in horizontal cable the best way to know is to test on-site, but the second-best way to know is to stay away from imported cable. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

By solid core cable I am referring to individual solid copper wire of sufficient gauge. Each one is covered in a color-coded insulator, those are then twisted around each other and all of that is encased in a single cable jacket. So in the case of the solid core CAT-6 that I have in my hand, I have three pairs of solid copper wire twisted around each other, coded orange/orange-white, green/green-white, and blue/blue-white. I use that criteria to differentiate solid core from CAT-6 patch cable.

I understand what you are saying here, and we are probably splitting hairs ( or wires ), but when I recommend solid core CAT-6/7 for long runs that will need an active termination I want to make sure that whom I'm talking to understands that I'm not recommending twisted pair patch cable (like an ethernet cable).

Oh, and I agree completely about imported cable. I see that Simplay Labs is now listed as an ATC. Excellent.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> By solid core cable I am referring to individual solid copper wire of sufficient gauge. Each one is covered in a color-coded insulator, those are then twisted around each other and all of that is encased in a single cable jacket. So in the case of the solid core CAT-6 that I have in my hand, I have three pairs of solid copper wire twisted around each other, coded orange/orange-white, green/green-white, and blue/blue-white. I use that criteria to differentiate solid core from CAT-6 patch cable.
> 
> I understand what you are saying here, and we are probably splitting hairs ( or wires ), but when I recommend solid core CAT-6/7 for long runs that will need an active termination I want to make sure that whom I'm talking to understands that I'm not recommending twisted pair patch cable (like an ethernet cable).
> 
> Oh, and I agree completely about imported cable. I see that Simplay Labs is now listed as an ATC. Excellent.


Your definition of solid-core here is right. It was just when you contrasted it with twisted-pair that I felt there was a need for clarification -- what you're describing is solid twisted pairs as opposed to stranded twisted pairs. 

When you say this, though:

"I want to make sure that whom I'm talking to understands that I'm not recommending twisted pair patch cable (like an ethernet cable)."

There, the problem is that you're contrasting horizontal with patch cable, and calling the patch cable "ethernet cable." Both horizontal cable and patch cable are Ethernet cable -- there are somewhat different specs for the two but it's still the Ethernet spec whether you're running jack-to-jack or plug-to-plug. If you're not sure whether you're looking at a horizontal or a patch cable, in Cat 6 or 6a, the most obvious difference is that horizontal cable will usually be 23 AWG pairs while patch will be 24 AWG or smaller (the insertion loss requirement for patch is less stringent). In 5e that doesn't work, because 24 AWG is sufficient for horizontal as well. 

Now, the solid/stranded contrast for horizontal versus patch doesn't quite work. While Cat 6 patch cords are often stranded, they're not invariably so (and, very likely, there is such a thing as stranded horizontal as well -- industrial applications often require high flex-life -- though we haven't dealt with it). Our patch cords are solid. The TIA spec suggests, but does not require, stranded wire in patch cords. 

Bear in mind that the difference here, however, is less about patch versus horizontal than about good versus bad. Patch will typically have a bit more insertion loss, but if you're not running 100-meter runs, chances are that's not a big deal for you. Excellent patch cable will outperform crummy horizontal any day of the week -- and there are a lot of factories (I'll be seeing their booths at CES next week) who make crummy horizontal cable....

Simplay Labs has always, to my knowledge, operated at least a couple of ATCs -- all of our certifications have been through them, back to 2006 or so when we first had cables certified. Simplay is owned by Silicon Image, which is one of the HDMI "Founders," and now that I think of it I think that the Simplay ATCs might originally have been referred to as Silicon Image ATCs before the Simplay brand was created -- but they're the same ATCs.

Kurt
BJC


----------



## pas123

After buying a BJC Series-FE Bonded-Pair High-Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet, 7 foot, Black from amazon, I still can't get 4K 4.4.4 60P UHD color on
when booting from my Alienware Area51 R2 with 3 GTX 980 GeFroce SLI. with a Samsung 55" 4K Ultra HD Smart Curved LED LCD TV UN55JU670DFXZA.

When the computer in on, booted at 30hz fine and I turn UHD color on from the tv then I do get perfect 4K 4.4.4 60P right away...
*But any High speed HDMI (even the Amazon basic) will work on this config.*

There is no new vbios for my card and no new bios for the mb alienware and no new firmware for the tv.

I going to try a Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cable - Professional Series Ultra HD now and return the BJC. still hoping
 ​


----------



## Otto Pylot

pas123 said:


> I going to try a Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cable - Professional Series Ultra HD now and return the BJC. still hoping​


No such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable, period. Any passive, high speed HDMI cable made by a reputable mfr will work. If you want one that is tested and certified for 18Gbps, the BJC Premium Series is the only one that I know of that will come with a Certificate of Compliance for 18Gbps at the length you purchased. Any other mfr who makes the claim, as well as their "superior" mfr of their cables is all marketing b.s. At 7', you should have no problem, and if you're thinking about an active cable (Redmere for example), don't waste your money. The active cables are good for lengths longer than about 25' and you will not get any better performance than a high quality passive cable at 7' - 10'. I would suspect either the input you are using on the tv or the graphics card in your HTPC not being compatible. I don't know if graphics cards are held to the same protocols and mfr requirements as the video industry (tv/blu-ray players, etc).

Maybe you'll get lucky and find a cable that will appear to work. If you do, hopefully it will continue to work over time.


----------



## pas123

Otto Pylot said:


> the BJC Premium Series is the only one that I know of that will come with a Certificate of Compliance for 18Gbps at the length you purchased.


This BJC cable I got from Amazon didn't come with a Certificate of Compliance on the box, like others said in this thread, maybe it's a old one?
You right, it could be a hardware handshake problem, not the cable.. the MB bios, the GTX vbios or the tv firmware.
all are to be said ready to work together. maybe a 2015 tv and a 2014 GTX 980 but I dough it.
I'm not loosing sleep on it for sure.


----------



## Otto Pylot

BJC has apparently just started to ship cables with a laser-label certificate to thwart any counterfeit certificates. You may have to look around a bit for the new cables but my guess it's more of a hardware compatibility than a cable issue.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

pas123 said:


> This BJC cable I got from Amazon didn't come with a Certificate of Compliance on the box, like others said in this thread, maybe it's a old one?
> You right, it could be a hardware handshake problem, not the cable.. the MB bios, the GTX vbios or the tv firmware.
> all are to be said ready to work together. maybe a 2015 tv and a 2014 GTX 980 but I dough it.
> I'm not loosing sleep on it for sure.


It took us a while to get our Amazon inventory completely "turned over" so that all of the stock there would have the sticker -- we're still not done on every length. But there's no difference between the cable with and the cable without the sticker -- so that's certainly not the cause of any issue. Judging from what you've described, I'm guessing it's probably not a cable issue, but will be interested to hear what you find. Certainly I would suggest not buying cable from anyone who advertises "HDMI 2.0 cables" as that's a deceptive practice in violation of HDMI trademark usage restrictions -- not the sort of thing a reputable dealer does. While disreputable practices might not equate to bad product, they're not a positive indicator....

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## pas123

Just to update.
The Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cable did exactly as all the other cables > no signal when booting the PC.
I think I done with cables and it has to be hardware handshake at boot because I get 4K UHD 4.4.4 60hz signal when all are up and running.
The culprit could the Motherboard bios at 80% and or vbios on the GTX 980 at 20%..
Got to investigate this direction.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Any cable that is labeled as "HDMI 2.0 cable" is bogus. Plain and simple. The packaging may say that it meets 2.0 hardware specifications but if the cable is actually labeled as "HDMI 2.0" then it is probably a cheap Chinese knock-off. Any high quality passive high speed HDMI cable should work to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec. But if you are trying to push 18Gbps, good luck. Without a certification of compliance, it's hit and miss, mostly miss. My guess is that it's a hardware problem and not a cable problem.


----------



## loganross

This may be helpful for us that need a long length 18.2 cable: http://www.dpllabs.com/page/dpl-member-metra-home-theater-group-ethereal


----------



## Otto Pylot

If DPL Labs certification lab is on the HDMI Licensing ATC (Approved Testing Center) list, then their certification is one that you can trust. BJC's testing facility is on the HDMI ATC list as another alternative.


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> It took us a while to get our Amazon inventory completely "turned over" so that all of the stock there would have the sticker -- we're still not done on every length. But there's no difference between the cable with and the cable without the sticker -- so that's certainly not the cause of any issue. Judging from what you've described, I'm guessing it's probably not a cable issue, but will be interested to hear what you find. Certainly I would suggest not buying cable from anyone who advertises "HDMI 2.0 cables" as that's a deceptive practice in violation of HDMI trademark usage restrictions -- not the sort of thing a reputable dealer does. While disreputable practices might not equate to bad product, they're not a positive indicator....
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable



Can you please tell me the difference between ISF certified speed ratings, THX certified speed ratings and HDMI certified speed ratings. I didi purchase your certified 18 Gig speed rated. Thanks for your answer.


----------



## HDPERSON

Otto Pylot said:


> If DPL Labs certification lab is on the HDMI Licensing ATC (Approved Testing Center) list, then their certification is one that you can trust. BJC's testing facility is on the HDMI ATC list as another alternative.



You can't trust ISF or THX certifications? Please explain.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

HDPERSON said:


> Can you please tell me the difference between ISF certified speed ratings, THX certified speed ratings and HDMI certified speed ratings. I didi purchase your certified 18 Gig speed rated. Thanks for your answer.


I don't actually know of ISF or THX doing speed ratings, and I can't find any reference online to them doing this. Do they? The only speed-rating system I know of is the official HDMI system. There are a few resellers of HDMI cables, e.g., Monster, who claim "speed ratings" of their own but who don't publish any specifications for those ratings, which renders them quite meaningless. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDPERSON said:


> You can't trust ISF or THX certifications? Please explain.


ISF and THX certifications are video calibration standards. They have nothing to do with HDMI cable certification specifications.


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> I don't actually know of ISF or THX doing speed ratings, and I can't find any reference online to them doing this. Do they? The only speed-rating system I know of is the official HDMI system. There are a few resellers of HDMI cables, e.g., Monster, who claim "speed ratings" of their own but who don't publish any specifications for those ratings, which renders them quite meaningless.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC



Thank you for the response. ISF (Image Science Foundation) verifies Monster HDMI speed ratings, Gold at 18.0, Platinum at 22.5 Gigs, and Black Platinum at 27.0 Gigs. THX has certified in the past Monster HDMI speeds and TVs. I just wondered if this is like the HDMI certification program. All these verifications and certifications can be confusing. Thanks.


----------



## HDPERSON

Otto Pylot said:


> ISF and THX certifications are video calibration standards. They have nothing to do with HDMI cable certification specifications.



Thanks for the response, however on the package of Monster for example, the ISF president verifies the cable as accurate at for example 27.0 Gigs.
,


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

HDPERSON said:


> Thank you for the response. ISF (Image Science Foundation) verifies Monster HDMI speed ratings, Gold at 18.0, Platinum at 22.5 Gigs, and Black Platinum at 27.0 Gigs. THX has certified in the past Monster HDMI speeds and TVs. I just wondered if this is like the HDMI certification program. All these verifications and certifications can be confusing. Thanks.


Actually, I'm still not finding anything that indicates that the speed ratings are in any way validated by ISF testing. All I see is that the cables have ISF certification, whatever that may mean, and that Monster gives them these speed ratings. Do you see anything that says ISF is actually doing speed testing? Can you provide a link to that? Likewise, I've seen THX certified products but have never heard anyone claim that THX had tested and certified an HDMI cable for speed.

Bear in mind, too: there is NO SPECIFICATION for a 27 Gbps speed. Nothing to certify to, unless one makes up one's own specification, which then may or may not conform to whatever specification might eventually be written were the spec to be expanded to encompass that data arate. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Actually, I'm still not finding anything that indicates that the speed ratings are in any way validated by ISF testing. All I see is that the cables have ISF certification, whatever that may mean, and that Monster gives them these speed ratings. Do you see anything that says ISF is actually doing speed testing? Can you provide a link to that? Likewise, I've seen THX certified products but have never heard anyone claim that THX had tested and certified an HDMI cable for speed.
> 
> Bear in mind, too: there is NO SPECIFICATION for a 27 Gbps speed. Nothing to certify to, unless one makes up one's own specification, which then may or may not conform to whatever specification might eventually be written were the spec to be expanded to encompass that data arate.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC



Thanks again, I just sent an email to HDMI.org and asked them the question about Monster's speed with ISF certification as compared to their certification program for 18 Gigs. I should be hearing from the soon.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

HDPERSON said:


> Thanks again, I just sent an email to HDMI.org and asked them the question about Monster's speed with ISF certification as compared to their certification program for 18 Gigs. I should be hearing from the soon.


With luck, yes, though they're working up for CES and so might be a bit over-busy right now. While they could tell you details of the HDMI testing and certification, I am not sure they will know anything about what ISF does.

Let me know, though, if you run into anything indicating that ISF is actually doing speed testing. I'd be very surprised if they are, and have not found any reference to them doing it, but who knows?

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDPERSON said:


> Thanks for the response, however on the package of Monster for example, the ISF president verifies the cable as accurate at for example 27.0 Gigs.
> ,


Monster is total and utter b.s. as far as a cable company goes. There is no 27Gbps HDMI standard. The next certifiable speed after 18Gbps is about 72GBps, and you'll never see an HDMI cable meet that spec. Don't fall for any of Monster's claims. HDMI.org has a listing on their website of the ATC's (Approved Testing Centers) that follow the HDMI Licensing organization's guidelines for certifying HDMI cables. With CES on the horizon and the next gen of 4k (UHD) tv's coming out you are going to be reading and hearing all kinds of claims made by cable mfrs. The rule of thumb is easy. Don't believe any of the cable package marketing. Get the list of ATC's and then see if the cable you want to purchase that claims to be certified (not merely tested) at a particular speed is on the ATC list and the cable mfr will supply you with a certificate of compliance for the length of cable you want to purchase.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no 27Gbps HDMI standard. The next certifiable speed after 18Gbps is about 72GBps, and you'll never see an HDMI cable meet that spec.


Well, really, there COULD be a standard for signal quality at any speed. The problem is that there isn't -- and, contrary to what people do sometimes seem to suppose, there is no sort of ordinary generally-applicable criterion that can be applied to say that something does or doesn't support such-and-such a data speed. So without an official spec, the statement that a cable supports, say, 27 Gbps, is just as valid as my saying that the eraser on the pencil on my desk is a 27-Gig eraser. If we do not have a preexisting standard to say what it must do at 27 Gigs, the statement is meaningless.

At all stages of the HDMI spec, the source, cable and sink specs have all been written to fit one another. They function as an integrated whole. If the developers of the spec had chosen to place greater requirements for signal recovery on the sinks, for example, they could have loosened the requirements for sources or cables; if they had put greater requirements for signal integrity upon sources, they could have loosened the requirements for cables or sinks; if they had put greater requirements upon cables, they could have loosened the requirements for sinks and sources. The specs for each element of the chain fit one another so that if all three elements are spec-compliant, the chain will be spec-compliant. 

So, when someone announces that he's got a 27-Gig cable, there's a problem. We don't know what source requirements will be, in the hypothetical event that HDMI Licensing extends the spec bandwidth to 27 Gbps. We don't know what the spec will require in the way of data recovery at the sink end in such an event. And without knowing those things one cannot even make a plausible guess at what would constitute a compliant 27-Gig cable. 

So, if ISF is indeed doing speed testing, to what standard are they doing it? Not to any standard that could possibly correspond to a not-yet-written spec, surely. And if they don't publish the details of that standard, how is one even to know what they've tested? 

A proper spec has to have criteria; it's got to say, for example, that there's to be no more than so many dB of return loss, or total attenuation, or crosstalk, or all of the above, under some specified testing condition. If you put 27 Gbps into a rusty coathanger, something comes out the other end. Does that make it a 27 Gbps coathanger? Well, it all depends upon what your specification standard is, and if that standard corresponds to nothing in reality (e.g., to the not-yet-written HDMI 3.0 spec) it's hard to see what that could possibly be worth.

Kurt
BJC


----------



## HDPERSON

Otto Pylot said:


> Monster is total and utter b.s. as far as a cable company goes. There is no 27Gbps HDMI standard. The next certifiable speed after 18Gbps is about 72GBps, and you'll never see an HDMI cable meet that spec. Don't fall for any of Monster's claims. HDMI.org has a listing on their website of the ATC's (Approved Testing Centers) that follow the HDMI Licensing organization's guidelines for certifying HDMI cables. With CES on the horizon and the next gen of 4k (UHD) tv's coming out you are going to be reading and hearing all kinds of claims made by cable mfrs. The rule of thumb is easy. Don't believe any of the cable package marketing. Get the list of ATC's and then see if the cable you want to purchase that claims to be certified (not merely tested) at a particular speed is on the ATC list and the cable mfr will supply you with a certificate of compliance for the length of cable you want to purchase.



No need to get angry over an HDMI cable. As we have seen not all cables are the same as per HDMI.org test and certification of 18GBPS cables. We really don't know how much a cable can carry until it is tested. It could carry up to 100 Gigs, that is why it may have to be tested.


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Well, really, there COULD be a standard for signal quality at any speed. The problem is that there isn't -- and, contrary to what people do sometimes seem to suppose, there is no sort of ordinary generally-applicable criterion that can be applied to say that something does or doesn't support such-and-such a data speed. So without an official spec, the statement that a cable supports, say, 27 Gbps, is just as valid as my saying that the eraser on the pencil on my desk is a 27-Gig eraser. If we do not have a preexisting standard to say what it must do at 27 Gigs, the statement is meaningless.
> 
> At all stages of the HDMI spec, the source, cable and sink specs have all been written to fit one another. They function as an integrated whole. If the developers of the spec had chosen to place greater requirements for signal recovery on the sinks, for example, they could have loosened the requirements for sources or cables; if they had put greater requirements for signal integrity upon sources, they could have loosened the requirements for cables or sinks; if they had put greater requirements upon cables, they could have loosened the requirements for sinks and sources. The specs for each element of the chain fit one another so that if all three elements are spec-compliant, the chain will be spec-compliant.
> 
> So, when someone announces that he's got a 27-Gig cable, there's a problem. We don't know what source requirements will be, in the hypothetical event that HDMI Licensing extends the spec bandwidth to 27 Gbps. We don't know what the spec will require in the way of data recovery at the sink end in such an event. And without knowing those things one cannot even make a plausible guess at what would constitute a compliant 27-Gig cable.
> 
> So, if ISF is indeed doing speed testing, to what standard are they doing it? Not to any standard that could possibly correspond to a not-yet-written spec, surely. And if they don't publish the details of that standard, how is one even to know what they've tested?
> 
> A proper spec has to have criteria; it's got to say, for example, that there's to be no more than so many dB of return loss, or total attenuation, or crosstalk, or all of the above, under some specified testing condition. If you put 27 Gbps into a rusty coathanger, something comes out the other end. Does that make it a 27 Gbps coathanger? Well, it all depends upon what your specification standard is, and if that standard corresponds to nothing in reality (e.g., to the not-yet-written HDMI 3.0 spec) it's hard to see what that could possibly be worth.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC



Well put, that is why I want to I want to know the truth! A rusty coat hanger may have 27.0 Gigs. LOL


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

HDPERSON said:


> Well put, that is why I want to I want to know the truth! A rusty coat hanger may have 27.0 Gigs. LOL


That's been a stock expression of mine for a while -- one of the consequences of transmission line theory is that, for any given signal type, there is some distance over which it will travel just as well via rusty coathanger as via a well-designed cable, and I call that the "rusty coathanger distance." For analog audio, depending on exactly what our criteria are, this distance may be rather long. For something like S/PDIF, three feet of rusty coathanger will probably work just fine, but I'd hate to trust it at twenty feet. HDMI is the first widely-accepted standard for home audio and video where the rusty coathanger distance is truly very short -- at 18 Gbps, you might not be able to get that to work even at one foot (ignoring for the moment the considerable difficulty involved in soldering 19 rusty coathangers to a pair of HDMI connectors). 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDPERSON said:


> No need to get angry over an HDMI cable. As we have seen not all cables are the same as per HDMI.org test and certification of 18GBPS cables. We really don't know how much a cable can carry until it is tested. It could carry up to 100 Gigs, that is why it may have to be tested.


I'm not getting angry over an HDMI cable. What gets me, and I think Kurt would agree, is the way a lot of cable mfrs are really stretching the truth on what their cables are capable of. There's a lot of falsehood in the cable mfr industry. There are lots of mfrs claiming 18Gbps but only one, possibly two that have actually tested and certified their cables thru an ATC, and offer a certificate of compliance. All the others are just smoke and mirrors and Monster is the biggest at smoke and mirrors. Way overpriced for what you get.

Shoot, and I had a whole bunch of gold plated coat hangers at various lengths, that we tested, that I was about to put up on eBay  They really do look nice. Very shiny and color coded on the ends for the various speeds.


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## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> Shoot, and I had a whole bunch of gold plated coat hangers at various lengths, that we tested, that I was about to put up on eBay  They really do look nice. Very shiny and color coded on the ends for the various speeds.


The good things about gold-plated coathangers are: (1) low contact resistance, and (2) corrosion protection. But you can't plate gold directly over steel without some intermediate metal (well, you can, but it starts to break down), so it's probably got to be gold-plated-copper-plated steel. For some reason my local Home Depot just does not carry those....

Kurt
BJC


----------



## CycleChem

Otto Pylot said:


> ISF and THX certifications are video calibration standards. They have nothing to do with HDMI cable certification specifications.



THX jumped into HDMI cable certification in Dec. 2014. Here is a little piece from their press release.



“Future Ultra-high resolution content with no Chroma subsampling will require an HDMI cable to support a bandwidth of up to 6 Gbps per channel. Under the 4K interconnect program, THX will certify cables as fulfilling the performance requirements of 3 Gbps per channel (Level 3) or 6 Gbps per channel (Level 6). Each cable will need to pass approximately 75 THX laboratory tests that span not only electrical and communication protocol performance, but also mechanical integrity and interoperability."


So far, the only company that I am aware of that is selling THX certified cables is Kordz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CycleChem said:


> THX jumped into HDMI cable certification in Dec. 2014. Here is a little piece from their press release.
> 
> 
> 
> “Future Ultra-high resolution content with no Chroma subsampling will require an HDMI cable to support a bandwidth of up to 6 Gbps per channel. Under the 4K interconnect program, THX will certify cables as fulfilling the performance requirements of 3 Gbps per channel (Level 3) or 6 Gbps per channel (Level 6). Each cable will need to pass approximately 75 THX laboratory tests that span not only electrical and communication protocol performance, but also mechanical integrity and interoperability."
> 
> 
> So far, the only company that I am aware of that is selling THX certified cables is Kordz.


THX certification is fine if the movie is produced following THX standards. I may be wrong, but THX doesn't exactly follow rec.709 or rec.2020 standards. I'll have to go back and look, it's been awhile. It's nice that the THX laboratory has 75 tests but are the testing protocols the same as the HDMI Licensing ATC's? Does each length of cable come with a certificate of compliance? The cables are probably fine, most passive high speed cables are that are made by a reputable mfr are, but for me, I will stick with HDMI cables that I know have been certified by an HDMI Licensing ATC. There is no question as to what and how they were tested and certified.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> The good things about gold-plated coathangers are: (1) low contact resistance, and (2) corrosion protection. But you can't plate gold directly over steel without some intermediate metal (well, you can, but it starts to break down), so it's probably got to be gold-plated-copper-plated steel. For some reason my local Home Depot just does not carry those....
> 
> Kurt
> BJC


Damn! I'll have to come up with something else before CES. There's lots of folks just waiting to throw their money around.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CycleChem said:


> THX jumped into HDMI cable certification in Dec. 2014. Here is a little piece from their press release.


To expand a bit on my previous post, all displays are calibrated to the same industry accepted practices and standards. If a product is certified by THX, Ltd., it has been hired by THX to assist in providing a certain level of performance achieved by a testing program required by THX (not necessarily HDMI Licensing). THX, Ltd. is basically an industry consultant. Cable performance has nothing to do with how a display is calibrated.


----------



## R Harkness

R Harkness said:


> BlueJeans cable owner signing in here:
> 
> 
> Well this seems like the right thread to post these questions in, as I'm now re-entering the horror show that is the world of HDMI syncing.
> 
> My system has the source components in one room, and I use two 45 foot long *BlueJeans Beldon HDMI cables* (the top version rated for longest runs) to the room with my projector. This has worked great for the last 5 years, passing 1080p, 3D and also 4K signals (1080p upscaled to 4K and output from my Lumagen video processor) with no problems.
> 
> BUT...I just replaced my JVC projector (2 years old) with the latest model and now I can't get a picture. The latest models are fully UHD compatible *"Dual Full Speed 18Gbps HDMI/HDCP 2.2 Compatible Inputs"* specs here:
> 
> http://procision.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029573&pathId=140&page=10
> 
> Hooking up the new projector to the existing HDMI cable run (back to my Lumagen doing the video switching) completely freezes the projector, not only no picture, it makes it unresponsive to all commands. I tried bypassing the Lumagen etc, running the one of the 45 foot HDMI cables directly into the projector, and that works fine. So it's something about the communication with the Lumagen.
> 
> On bringing this up in the Lumagen threads, they are suggesting I'm probably running up against a cable limitation - the chips in the Lumagen, and now my new JVC, are a bit more demanding and finicky, so this long passive run may have met it's match.
> 
> Does that sound about right to folks here?
> 
> (It's been suggested I place the Lumagen VP at the end of the long HDMI cable run, and run a 6 foot HDMI cable from the Lumagen into the projector, and if that works it suggests cable limitations being the culpurite).
> 
> Anyway....IF I have to re-cable like everyone else I want to do it right, especially as the cables run through basement ceilings through rooms etc.
> 
> Would a redmere type cable of 45 feet be a good bet? Or an HDMI Balun? I'm not sure what the advantages of one over the other are.
> 
> Finally, I see people say that Cat 6/7 is the cable to run if you just want to be more future proof. So why isn't everyone just using Cat 6/7 rather than fooling around rolling dice on all the HDMI cables? Would it make sense to just go Cat cables? (I guess they just terminate them with HDMI connectors or something?)
> 
> Thanks!



REPORTING IN:


I just received a monoprice redmere active cable (50ft) and I'm (sort of) happy to report *it solved the problem!*

(I say "sort of" because this means having to re-cable through my walls and basement ceiling!).

Though, at this point if I'm going to get to pulling cables through my walls, wanting to get it right, I'm not sure what would be the best bet to go with: stick with these monoprice cables or go to the Cat5 or optical hdmi cables some have mentioned.


----------



## Otto Pylot

If the Redmere cable works for you then I'd go with that. It's certainly a lot cheaper than solid core CAT-6/7 with HDBT termination. I don't remember but did you install a conduit for your cabling?


----------



## R Harkness

Otto Pylot said:


> If the Redmere cable works for you then I'd go with that. It's certainly a lot cheaper than solid core CAT-6/7 with HDBT termination. I don't remember but did you install a conduit for your cabling?


No conduit. I actually asked my original installers to do that, but they complained it wouldn't fit or something like that.

The cables go down to run along the ceiling of my basement back up to my AV sources. There are a couple of access panels along the way, and a pull string cable was left for pulling through new cables.
Hopefully it won't be too hard. I was going to originally order the "lux" CL3 rated versions:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024019&p_id=13760&seq=1&format=2

but decided on getting the cheaper "Cabernet" CL2 rated version figuring it would cost me less if they didn't work out.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12962

As I understand it, they are also rated to be run through walls. (?)


----------



## Otto Pylot

CL2/CL3 are fire ratings. CL2 is rated to handle up to 150 volts and CL3 is rated up to 300 volts. In-wall cables are coated with material that emits lower amounts of toxic fumes when in contact with fire. At least you have pull strings and access panels. Just be careful pulling the HDMI cable. You don't want to damage the connector end or force any sharp bends. While you're there you might as well pull some solid core CAT-6/7, just in case. Just leave a nice service loop at both ends.


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> That's been a stock expression of mine for a while -- one of the consequences of transmission line theory is that, for any given signal type, there is some distance over which it will travel just as well via rusty coathanger as via a well-designed cable, and I call that the "rusty coathanger distance." For analog audio, depending on exactly what our criteria are, this distance may be rather long. For something like S/PDIF, three feet of rusty coathanger will probably work just fine, but I'd hate to trust it at twenty feet. HDMI is the first widely-accepted standard for home audio and video where the rusty coathanger distance is truly very short -- at 18 Gbps, you might not be able to get that to work even at one foot (ignoring for the moment the considerable difficulty involved in soldering 19 rusty coathangers to a pair of HDMI connectors).
> 
> Kurt
> BJC



With CES on I have not received a response yet from ISF or HDMI. However here is what Joel Silver said on the ISF 1250 cable, "Each ISF HDMI cable is stringently tested and certified by ISF for signal accuracy and bandwidth, greater than 10.2 Gbps, essential for true 1080p video reproduction. The result: your HDTV gets the whole picture, the right picture and nothing but the picture." This was on the package before 4K came out. Joel writes on current ISF packaging for the 18.0 Gbps, 22.5 Gbps and 27.0 Gbps this: "Cable measured with jitter and will not exceed data rate of your component." "Advance Audio/Video features are on the capabilities of your equipment." "Monster is the only HDMI cable certified by ISF for high resolution displays." "Delivering every picture element accurately with Monster HDMI is a critical first step for ISF calibration."


From theses statements it is obvious that the cables are well tested.


Also David Frangioni (Engineer/Producer/Technologist to the stars from Aerosmith and Ozzy Osbourne to the Rolling Stones said "Monster ISF cable is simply astounding in its ability to deliver true reference-quality audio and video, regardless of cable length or component type. ISF HDMI interconnects perform at the highest level, beyond any cable I've ever used, and I've used them all."


Now I am waiting for the e-mail from ISF and HDMI.org. I may contact Monster if I need further clarification.


----------



## Otto Pylot

You can get the same performance out of other brands (BJC comes to mind) that come with a certificate of compliance from an HDMI Licensing ATC for less money. Those statements are paid statements for the express purpose of justifying the high cost of a Monster cable. Not necessarily false statements but the cost of the cables are just not justifiable when other cables are just as good for less money. Do the cables come with a separate certificate of compliance for the length you purchased or is it part of the package labeling? Reference quality audio and video is nice if you're a spectrophotometer, but the human ear and eye can only discern so much. The rest is just instrument response. It's your money, go for it.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

HDPERSON said:


> From theses statements it is obvious that the cables are well tested.


Well, but tested to what standard? Without that information it's essentially meaningless. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. BTW, the statement from David Frangioni is from an article written about Noel Lee, who founded Monster Cable in 1979.


----------



## kenoh89

I thought the HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support [email protected] 4:4:4 chroma and deep color? I thought [email protected] is only possible with 4:2:2, or 4:2:0? My TV only supports those settings, and mine has a native 10-bit panel w/HDMI 2.0


Sharp 80UH30 and GTX 980ti


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

kenoh89 said:


> I thought the HDMI 2.0 spec doesn't support [email protected] 4:4:4 chroma and deep color? I thought [email protected] is only possible with 4:2:2, or 4:2:0? My TV only supports those settings, and mine has a native 10-bit panel w/HDMI 2.0.


I think that's correct. 4:4:4 is fine at 8-bit color, but you've got to go down to 4:2:2 to handle 10 or 12-bit. That, at least, is what my reading of the 2.0a spec document seems to indicate.... 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## R Harkness

Folks,

I need to temporarily run my new 50 ft monoprice HDMI redmere active cable along the ceiling in my basement. To make it discrete, I could tuck it along side the florescent lights that span the length of that ceiling. Probably an inch or so away from the lights (which never get hot).

Is there anything wrong in doing this? Could this cause any interference with the HDMI signal or other issues?

Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hmmm, that's a good question. I know fluorescent lights can cause interference at times with WiFi but I haven't read or heard anything about causing interference with an HDMI cable. I guess you're going to be the test bed for us  Good luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## HDPERSON

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Well, but tested to what standard? Without that information it's essentially meaningless.
> 
> Kurt
> BJC



Joel Silver has responded to my e-mail and has stated that the speed of Monster Cables has been tested and verified by ISF, he also states that Monster also has it's own test equipment for speed testing. You can contact Joel at ISF for further information. He is the President of ISF.
His email address is [email protected].


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

So, still no indication as to what criteria they use for testing?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> So, still no indication as to what criteria they use for testing?


Agreed. HDPERSON is really hung up on justifying Monster cables. Monster does make a good cable, there's no question about that, but their marketing and claims do not justify the high cost. You can achieve just as good of results with cables that cost much less. If ISF uses standardized testing protocols that are approved by HDMI Licensing ATC's (Approved Testing Centers) that's great. If not, they should at least put the ISF testing protocol section numbers on their certificates so one can look them up and compare. They do provide Certificates of Compliance with each length of cable purchased don't they?

Joel Sliver being the president of ISF is really meaningless if he's been hired by Monster to test their cables and give his approval. It's the standardized testing protocols that are important, not who says they are good.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> If ISF uses standardized testing protocols that are approved by HDMI Licensing ATC's (Approved Testing Centers) that's great.


Since there are no such standards for some of the "speeds" they say they test, that's certainly not the case. The tricky question is: if they don't publish a spec, how is their claim that they have tested an HDMI cable and found it good up to 27 Gigs any better than my claim that I own a 27 Gig pencil eraser? The question isn't whether the cable can be fed a 27 Gig signal; the question is what will come out the other end, and without specific criteria one cannot know what the claim even means.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Since there are no such standards for some of the "speeds" they say they test, that's certainly not the case. The tricky question is: if they don't publish a spec, how is their claim that they have tested an HDMI cable and found it good up to 27 Gigs any better than my claim that I own a 27 Gig pencil eraser? The question isn't whether the cable can be fed a 27 Gig signal; the question is what will come out the other end, and without specific criteria one cannot know what the claim even means.


Agreed.


----------



## rgathright

I am totally confused with all of the HDMI cable options. I only need 6' long ones and they will need to do 3D, ARC, 4K & 1080p, Deep Color and as many of the audio options as possible. These cables will be going from my Directv receiver to my A/V receiver and then another on to my Sony 4K TV. Eventually I will be getting a 4K Bluray/DVD player.

Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

rgathright said:


> I am totally confused with all of the HDMI cable options. I only need 6' long ones and they will need to do 3D, ARC, 4K & 1080p, Deep Color and as many of the audio options as possible. These cables will be going from my Directv receiver to my A/V receiver and then another on to my Sony 4K TV. Eventually I will be getting a 4K Bluray/DVD player.


The feature list is irrelevant except insofar as it means you'll need a "high speed" cable, and you'll want it to be a passive cable so as to support ARC (in other words, not a boost/eq type cable like some of the Redmere chip cables) -- vendors give lists of supported features but doing that is a bit deceptive as really ANY cable will support the various formats and protocols, et cetera, so long as it can handle the bandwidth, and for bandwidth there still are only two classes: "standard" and "high speed."

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

I agree with Kurt. At 6', all you need is a passive high speed HDMI cable. Don't worry about the specs because some of the specs mentioned, while supported by high speed HDMI cables, aren't supported by the hardware (ethernet and Deep Color come to mind). Look at cables from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge and don't be taken in by slick packaging and carefully worded market-speak.


----------



## pitythefool

Alright, so I read over most of this thread. I have an issue and I'm not sure if it's hdmi cable related or what, I have a sneaking suspicion that it is though.

Just built a new computer and have a 970 gtx graphics card so [email protected] _should_ work.

I bought a 55" 4k rca tv a few weeks ago and just got around to using it. It can do 4k @60hz, but the screen tends to go black (sometimes makes a popping sound too as it's rebooting,- Aside from the sound, I'd say it's more like it's losing the signal, kind of like when you change your tv from hdmi 1 to hdmi 2 or whatever, it'll go black and take a few seconds to pull up the new input screen) for like 4-8 seconds and then comes back on. It seems to occur more often whenever you try doing something that's a little bit graphics intensive.

Dropping the refresh rate to 30hz alleviates the black screen problem, but then I'm stuck with 30hz which means laggy mouse movement which isn't desirable. 

My question is, does this sound like an hdmi bandwidth issue? I am using cables from a few years ago (the more I think about it, the cable I'm using is probably from 2012 which would mean it's definitely not hdmi 2.0, which might explain why I had slightly better luck with the cable I bought a week ago, but that one still had the same problem, albeit it occurred less often. It was a cheap high speed hdmi (packaging says nothing about speed) so it's probably only like a 10.2gbps rated cable). 

From reading the thread it sounds like either ordering one of kurts blue jean cables, or the kabel direkt off amazon sound like the way to go. The only unknown is if the cables are the actual root of the problem. I don't really feel like shelling out more than 15 or 20 bucks for a 6-10ft cable, especially since I'm just guessing this is the issue at this point. 

Any help would be appreciated.

The only people who mentioned this kind of problem were doctorwizz (post#9) and greywarden (#179):


doctorwizz said:


> My TV has true HDMI 2.0 ports and does 444 color.
> I found one that works which I posted in post 2.
> I am a techie with a lot of cables. HDMI 2.0 can be finicky. _Some cables seem to work but you get the occasional 3 second black screen with 4K 60HZ_. And the rest only work at 1080P.


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. The number designation is the hardware spec, not the cable spec. If you're using cables from 2012, and there is no certificate of compliance with it, then it's probably a cheap Chinese knock off that wasn't ever certified for the HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 hardware spec. I would look at purchasing a new, passive high speed HDMI cable (depending on the length of your cable run) that comes with a certificate of compliance for the length of cable you purchased. That way you know that the cable has been tested and certified to meet the HDMI 1.4/2.0 specs. 10.2Gbps is the upper limit of HDMI 1.4 and the lower limit of HDMI 2.0. If you attempt to push the cable for the more demanding video protocols of HDMI 2.0, you may want to look for a cable that is tested and certified for 18.2Gbps, provided that all of your connected HDMI inputs have the current HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. The only cable mfr that I am currently aware of that tests and certifies their cables (by an HDMI Licensing approved ATC) is BJC.


----------



## danbfree

pitythefool said:


> Alright, so I read over most of this thread. I have an issue and I'm not sure if it's hdmi cable related or what, I have a sneaking suspicion that it is though.
> 
> Just built a new computer and have a 970 gtx graphics card so [email protected] _should_ work.
> 
> I bought a 55" 4k rca tv a few weeks ago and just got around to using it. It can do 4k @60hz, but the screen tends to go black (sometimes makes a popping sound too as it's rebooting,- Aside from the sound, I'd say it's more like it's losing the signal, kind of like when you change your tv from hdmi 1 to hdmi 2 or whatever, it'll go black and take a few seconds to pull up the new input screen) for like 4-8 seconds and then comes back on. It seems to occur more often whenever you try doing something that's a little bit graphics intensive.
> 
> Dropping the refresh rate to 30hz alleviates the black screen problem, but then I'm stuck with 30hz which means laggy mouse movement which isn't desirable.
> 
> My question is, does this sound like an hdmi bandwidth issue? I am using cables from a few years ago (the more I think about it, the cable I'm using is probably from 2012 which would mean it's definitely not hdmi 2.0, which might explain why I had slightly better luck with the cable I bought a week ago, but that one still had the same problem, albeit it occurred less often. It was a cheap high speed hdmi (packaging says nothing about speed) so it's probably only like a 10.2gbps rated cable).
> 
> From reading the thread it sounds like either ordering one of kurts blue jean cables, or the kabel direkt off amazon sound like the way to go. The only unknown is if the cables are the actual root of the problem. I don't really feel like shelling out more than 15 or 20 bucks for a 6-10ft cable, especially since I'm just guessing this is the issue at this point.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> The only people who mentioned this kind of problem were doctorwizz (post#9) and greywarden (#179):


You already got a good answer, but the bottom-line is to go with the shortest and thickest (heaviest gauge) high-speed cable that works for you, again there is no such thing as HDMI 2.0 cables, "Premium" ones are simply actually certified to do that, but at 10ft, regular "high speed" is fine. KabelDirekt should work great, their 20 ft works fine with my GTX 950 and 65" RCA combo for full [email protected] and 4:4:4 chroma. If you want to support a smaller company dedicated to excellent customer service then definitely use Blue Jean Cables, Kurt is awesome and super knowledgable!


----------



## Raven654

Anyone know if Cablemart cables support 4K60Hz, 4:4:4?

Link: http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4101

or anything from Monoprice like their active Ultraslim cables?

I been trying to find cables that support the feature. Each One I look at fail at that spec. Trying to get Slim HDMI that are also braided to clean up on the mess of HDMI cables I currently have.


----------



## danbfree

Raven654 said:


> Anyone know if Cablemart cables support 4K60Hz, 4:4:4?
> 
> Link: http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=4101
> 
> or anything from Monoprice like their active Ultraslim cables?
> 
> I been trying to find cables that support the feature. Each One I look at fail at that spec. Trying to get Slim HDMI that are also braided to clean up on the mess of HDMI cables I currently have.


If you read through this thread you would see that in shorter lengths then just about any decent quality "high speed" cable will work, no matter what it's claimed to support... In 6 ft, I just got a very thin braided cable off Amazon and it works fine... At the time I unknowingly bought it because it was advertised as "HDMI 2.0" when there is no such rating for cables. Anyway, it does strongly depend on length, for 10ft and under you could save a lot of money going with cheaper cables. If you don't mind spending more for a little peace of mind, the Monoprice 18gbps ultra slim actives are good (10ft for $18) if you want to pay for good quality up front, I'd just avoid the Redmere ones, they seem to cause more issues than help.


----------



## Raven654

danbfree said:


> If you read through this thread you would see that in shorter lengths then just about any decent quality "high speed" cable will work, no matter what it's claimed to support... In 6 ft, I just got a very thin braided cable off Amazon and it works fine... At the time I unknowingly bought it because it was advertised as "HDMI 2.0" when there is no such rating for cables. Anyway, it does strongly depend on length, for 10ft and under you could save a lot of money going with cheaper cables. If you don't mind spending more for a little peace of mind, the Monoprice 18gbps ultra slim actives are good (10ft for $18) if you want to pay for good quality up front, I'd just avoid the Redmere ones, they seem to cause more issues than help.


Just a little confusing. After I ask this question, I contacted Monoprice their Customer service said they have no cable that will support 4k60 with 4:4:4 Chroma.

Which brings to my conclusion. Is it worth getting HDMI cables that will support full 4:4:4 chroma yet?


----------



## danbfree

Raven654 said:


> Just a little confusing. After I ask this question, I contacted Monoprice their Customer service said they have no cable that will support 4k60 with 4:4:4 Chroma.
> 
> Which brings to my conclusion. Is it worth getting HDMI cables that will support full 4:4:4 chroma yet?


Don't listen to them, read through this thread... Cables are cables pretty much, it just depends on how strictly they are manufactured. Besides, it's hilarious that they say they don't have cables that support 4:4:4 chroma when _18.2gbps, what they clearly label their cables, is *specifically for* [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma_. They are SO uneducated they don't even realize what they are selling! LOL!

To be clear: 18.2gbps is the EXACT bandwidth needed for 4K60 4:4:4. So if they are saying they don't sell 4:4:4 cables then their cables aren't 18.2gbps and they are lying on their labeling... LOL... Honestly, I'm pretty sure ANY decent High Speed 10ft cable will work, even a $5 Amazon Basics... it's only at longer lengths you see issues passing the full 18.2gbps. I have a BUNCH of HDMI cables, ALL the short ones (3 and 6 ft) work with 4K60 4:4:4 on my GTX 950 with my cheap RCA TV that actually supports 4k60 4:4:4... It was only trying to go 20+ feet I had issues, but then again I only had 3-6ft then tried 25ft, nothing in between.

So buy whatever looks pretty (or flat) in 10ft and you should be good, don't overthink it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I pretty much agree with that. Cable mfrs are getting away with murder when it comes to claims and fancy marketing/labeling. Unless you can get a certificate of compliance that the cable length was tested by an HDMI Licensing approved ATC for 18.2Gbps, claims are meaningless. Besides, you need to know if the HDMI chipset on the source device is even capable of that bandwidth. HDMI 2.0 doesn't guarantee that because, as with cable mfrs, the definition of HDMI 2.0 is fairly broad. The only advantage of Redemere is for runs longer than about 25' and the thinness of the cable. Other than that, they are pretty much high speed hdmi cables with an accelerator at the sink end. Nothing magical about them. So yeah, if your run is around 10', any passive high speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr should work just fine for now. If your cables are easily accessible then you can just change them out when the dust settles, standards are settled a bit more, and the cable industry pulls its head out and quits playing smoke and mirrors with unsuspecting consumers.


----------



## Raven654

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ I pretty much agree with that. Cable mfrs are getting away with murder when it comes to claims and fancy marketing/labeling. Unless you can get a certificate of compliance that the cable length was tested by an HDMI Licensing approved ATC for 18.2Gbps, claims are meaningless. Besides, you need to know if the HDMI chipset on the source device is even capable of that bandwidth. HDMI 2.0 doesn't guarantee that because, as with cable mfrs, the definition of HDMI 2.0 is fairly broad. The only advantage of Redemere is for runs longer than about 25' and the thinness of the cable. Other than that, they are pretty much high speed hdmi cables with an accelerator at the sink end. Nothing magical about them. So yeah, if your run is around 10', any passive high speed HDMI cable from a reputable mfr should work just fine for now. If your cables are easily accessible then you can just change them out when the dust settles, standards are settled a bit more, and the cable industry pulls its head out and quits playing smoke and mirrors with unsuspecting consumers.


I want to go with Slim, Since cables I have now are a bit bulky. Can't seem to find any passive HDMI cables that are also braided. I guess I'll go with redmere for time being.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Raven654 said:


> I want to go with Slim, Since cables I have now are a bit bulky. Can't seem to find any passive HDMI cables that are also braided. I guess I'll go with redmere for time being.


An observation, and a question, for you:

First, the observation: When it comes to Redmere, the tricky bit is that there's more than one chipset and they won't all handle 18 Gigs. We're actually waiting right now for the next generation of Redmere to come out (expected in a month or so) so that we can do 18 Gig active cables -- they may indeed have some chipsets that already do, but you need to be sure which. An active cable that has a rise-time insufficiently sharp to handle the signal can easily be worse than a not-so-good passive cable. 

Second, a question: I sometimes hear people talk about the cables being "braided" and I have no idea what they mean -- there is such a thing as braiding, but it's normally used only for overall outer shields, not for anything having to do with the signal path itself. Do you just mean you are looking for something with a braided nylon sheath over the jacket? And if so, and if I may ask: why is that an important feature to you? 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> Second, a question: I sometimes hear people talk about the cables being "braided" and I have no idea what they mean -- there is such a thing as braiding, but it's normally used only for overall outer shields, not for anything having to do with the signal path itself. Do you just mean you are looking for something with a braided nylon sheath over the jacket? And if so, and if I may ask: why is that an important feature to you?
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


I was just about to ask that same question myself you beat me to it


----------



## Raven654

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> An observation, and a question, for you:
> 
> First, the observation: When it comes to Redmere, the tricky bit is that there's more than one chipset and they won't all handle 18 Gigs. We're actually waiting right now for the next generation of Redmere to come out (expected in a month or so) so that we can do 18 Gig active cables -- they may indeed have some chipsets that already do, but you need to be sure which. An active cable that has a rise-time insufficiently sharp to handle the signal can easily be worse than a not-so-good passive cable.
> 
> Second, a question: I sometimes hear people talk about the cables being "braided" and I have no idea what they mean -- there is such a thing as braiding, but it's normally used only for overall outer shields, not for anything having to do with the signal path itself. Do you just mean you are looking for something with a braided nylon sheath over the jacket? And if so, and if I may ask: why is that an important feature to you?
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


It's a personal preference of mine. Most of my cables are all braided, including all my PC cables inside and out.


----------



## danbfree

Raven654 said:


> I want to go with Slim, Since cables I have now are a bit bulky. Can't seem to find any passive HDMI cables that are also braided. I guess I'll go with redmere for time being.


So you need 10ft or could you get away with 6ft? Also, looks like Monoprice has active AND "Redmere" cables available, but I think that is essentially generic vs. name brand of active, FYI...

There are these and others on Amazon too: http://smile.amazon.com/Ultra-Clarity-2-Pack-Braided-Ethernet/dp/B00KWG5V5G 2-pack for $11.50 is pretty cheap! They CLAIM 18gbps support and should be fine, and at 30awg, shouldn't be too thick either.

Again, at only 10 feet you should have zero need for active cables, even using the full 18gbps, that is for mainly at 25ft+... Also, if you want to support a company with great support, just buy them from Blue Jeans Cable, they will be great quality and Kurt is super knowledgeable and responsive.


----------



## Raven654

danbfree said:


> So you need 10ft or could you get away with 6ft? Also, looks like Monoprice has active AND "Redmere" cables available, but I think that is essentially generic vs. name brand of active, FYI...
> 
> There are these and others on Amazon too: http://smile.amazon.com/Ultra-Clarity-2-Pack-Braided-Ethernet/dp/B00KWG5V5G 2-pack for $11.50 is pretty cheap! They CLAIM 18gbps support and should be fine, and at 30awg, shouldn't be too thick either.
> 
> Again, at only 10 feet you should have zero need for active cables, even using the full 18gbps, that is for mainly at 25ft+... Also, if you want to support a company with great support, just buy them from Blue Jeans Cable, they will be great quality and Kurt is super knowledgeable and responsive.


I was just going to grab these: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025508&p_id=10765&seq=1&format=2


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## danbfree

Raven654 said:


> I was just going to grab these: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025508&p_id=10765&seq=1&format=2


Like I was saying, at 6ft just about ANYTHING will work, I got one that looked like that for $9 on amazon, it works great and *I* paid too much... and again, Redmere is just a brand of active cable and active cables are completely unnecessary under 20ft, probably not needed until 25ft+

Edit: OK, I noticed a trend on Monoprice that you are buying into.. They have 10.2 and 18.2gbps cables and I think that's mainly a scam, especially in the short lengths we're discussing... I'm 99% sure the ones rated for 10.2gbps will work fine at 6ft compared to the ones they have rated for 18.2gbps... I like Monoprice in general but there is no such thing as cables rated for 18.2gbps WITHOUT the new "Premium" HDMI standard that seems like only Blue Jeans Cable is using so far. I don't know if this is like "speed binning" of computer processors where the same exact product they take some test them for the high speed and test them, without even trying if all og them pass or not... what's the difference between the one you posted and this? http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=13586&seq=1&format=2
Probably just the braiding and twice the price, honestly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

As far as the HDMI hardware specs go, 10.2Gbps is the upper, certifiable speed for HDMI 1.4. It is also the lower speed for HDMI 2.0. That's where a lot of hardware mfrs mislead the public by claiming they had HDMI 2.0 when actually all they had was a speed boost from 8.91Gbps, which is HDMI 1.4 to 10.2, which meant that they could "technically" claim HDMI 2.0. However, with cables this really makes no difference because passive, high speed HDMI cables and easily handle most of the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. You only need 18Gbps is you want to push 4k/60p, 4:4:4 on an 8-bit panel or 4k/60p, 4:2:2 on an 8-, 10-, or 12-bit panel. And unless you have the devices that have the HDMI 2.0 chipsets that can push at 18Gbps, I wouldn't worry about it. At 10', just go with a passive high speed cable from someone like Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge.


----------



## husupratt

*Repeater*

I am having the same problem. I have GTX 970 and need a 25 foot cable to my samsung js8500. I have tired 5 different 25ft cables and the best i got was [email protected] 4:2:0 but none will work at 4:4:4. Have anyone tried using a repeater? I and considering trying it, should I buy two 15ft cable with repeater in between or use existing 25ft cable > repeater > existing 6ft cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

So your total HDMI signal pathway is 31'? I would suggest using a single active cable that will cover the distance and see how that goes. Anytime you interrupt the signal path the likelyhood of something messing with the signal is increased.


----------



## husupratt

> Works with 4k 60p at 4:4:4 colorspace
> tripleflip, Hainesport, NJ 11/22/2014 3:00:19 PM
> Pros: 4k works at 60p and 4:4:4 colorspace without a hitch.
> 
> Cons: Other then being thick none......
> 
> Bought this cable in 2011, and it worked great. Recently bought LG 4k monitor that supports 4k at 60p and 4:4:4. Called monoprice to ask if this is going to work and they said no. Got my tv and to a great surprise it worked no problem. But i needed a 30ft run, so i bought here 6ft 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI® Cable With Ethernet Male to Female Extension - Black
> Product Number: 6066 connected it to the 25ft and it still worked! Im now running 4k with a 31ft length cable. Great cable at great price!


anyone else tried this cable?

Monoprice Commercial Series Professional High Speed HDMI® Cable with Ethernet, 25ft Black.


----------



## juajar

Hi Everyone

I have a UN40JU6700 and a Gygabyte GTX 960 currently running @60hz 4:4:4 on the Mediabridge cable (6').

I really need a 15' run but so far have been unsuccessfull with both the Kabledirect Pro and the Monoprice Redmere cables. The monoprice cuts off and on and the Kabeldirect wont even show a picture. Im looking for a 15' cable that will work with my setup and was wondering if anyone has used a specific 15' cable that works. I know a lot have gotten the Kabeldirect one to work so Im not sure if it may have been a faulty cable that I got. The cable works perfectly on @30Hz though.

I appreciate any suggestions or comments.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Try an active cable. You shouldn't need one at 15' but maybe there's just too much signal degradation at greater than 6' and you need the chipset at the sink end to error check the timing, etc. Or you can try a 15' passive high speed cable with a thicker gauge. If you purchase a passive high speed HDMI cable that has been certified by an HDMI Licensed ATC for the length of cable you purchased, then that's as close to a guarantee that you're going to get that the cable has met all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.


----------



## juajar

Otto Pylot said:


> Try an active cable. You shouldn't need one at 15' but maybe there's just too much signal degradation at greater than 6' and you need the chipset at the sink end to error check the timing, etc. Or you can try a 15' passive high speed cable with a thicker gauge. If you purchase a passive high speed HDMI cable that has been certified by an HDMI Licensed ATC for the length of cable you purchased, then that's as close to a guarantee that you're going to get that the cable has met all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.


Thanks for the quick reply, I have been looking for a good Active 15' cable but can only find the Monoprice Redmere which I already have and doesn't work. Does anyone have any specific ones which are more likely to work they can recommend?


----------



## emergetech

juajar said:


> Thanks for the quick reply, I have been looking for a good Active 15' cable but can only find the Monoprice Redmere which I already have and doesn't work. Does anyone have any specific ones which are more likely to work they can recommend?


Have you tried a Blue Jeans Cable? They claim that they have a 15 ft. cable that will work.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


----------



## Otto Pylot

emergetech said:


> Have you tried a Blue Jeans Cable? They claim that they have a 15 ft. cable that will work.
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


BJC is the only cable mfr that I know that is currently certifying their passive cables (Premium brand I believe) thru an HDMI Licensing approved ATC for HDMI 2.0 at 18Gbps, if you feel that you need an 18Gbps cable. Their other passive cables are certified as well for the current HDMI hardware specs but only up to 10.2Gbps I think. Keep in mind a passive cable should work at 15' because there is nothing magical about an active cable other than increased distance and wire gauge. Functionally, they are both the same. Active cables were basically designed so that one didn't have to use powered extenders to extend the length of a passive cable.

The suggestion to use an active cable was just another possibility because distance certainly didn't indicate the need for an active cable.


----------



## emergetech

Otto Pylot said:


> BJC is the only cable mfr that I know that is currently certifying their passive cables (Premium brand I believe) thru an HDMI Licensing approved ATC for HDMI 2.0 at 18Gbps, if you feel that you need an 18Gbps cable. Their other passive cables are certified as well for the current HDMI hardware specs but only up to 10.2Gbps I think. Keep in mind a passive cable should work at 15' because there is nothing magical about an active cable other than increased distance and wire gauge. Functionally, they are both the same. Active cables were basically designed so that one didn't have to use powered extenders to extend the length of a passive cable.
> 
> The suggestion to use an active cable was just another possibility because distance certainly didn't indicate the need for an active cable.


Juajar mentioned he is looking for a 4K60Hz 4:4:4 cable which implies he is looking for a bigger bandwidth cable. At 30Hz, you can use just about anything.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Then he'll need a cable that is certified for 18Gbps at the length he purchases so that would be the BJC Premium cables. They just started certifying them so he needs to be careful when he orders that he gets one of the new, certified cables. A lot of cable mfrs are claiming "up to" 18Gbos but you don't really know what that means, and of course they don't supply a certificate of compliance with the cable you purchased.


----------



## fizban11

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> An observation, and a question, for you:
> 
> First, the observation: When it comes to Redmere, the tricky bit is that there's more than one chipset and they won't all handle 18 Gigs. We're actually waiting right now for the next generation of Redmere to come out (expected in a month or so) so that we can do 18 Gig active cables -- they may indeed have some chipsets that already do, but you need to be sure which. An active cable that has a rise-time insufficiently sharp to handle the signal can easily be worse than a not-so-good passive cable.
> 
> Second, a question: I sometimes hear people talk about the cables being "braided" and I have no idea what they mean -- there is such a thing as braiding, but it's normally used only for overall outer shields, not for anything having to do with the signal path itself. Do you just mean you are looking for something with a braided nylon sheath over the jacket? And if so, and if I may ask: why is that an important feature to you?
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


Kurt, MyCableMart sent me a 10M HDMI cable with a modified PRA1700 Redmere chip for testing back at the end of November. It failed for anything in the 18Gbps range. The president of the company is a nice guy and really seems like he wants to help. When they get a solution, hopefully, they will contact me.

I am sure you know and understand this, but many people still seem confused. You may have stated all this information before, but in case you didn't, I'll add in my two-cents worth to try and clear-up the muddy water. My purpose is not to correct or preach, so please everyone, keep in mind the spirit of which this is written.

Many people keep talking about HDMI 2.0 specs - from the chart that was developed by Sony that I posted on this forum a while back, HDMI 2.0 really isn't in question. The minimum standards for HDMI 2.0 are met easily for most cables as these are demanding 10.2Gbps throughput and are labeled as HDMI "Level B". Including those that you sell, as they are all 15' and under, which should allow for both HDMI 2.0B and HDMI 2.0A specs.

As I understand it, for higher bandwidth requirements (18 Gbps range) to support 4K 60Hz at color depths of 4:4:4 chroma, this is actually labeled as HDMI 2.0 "Level A", as this adds in HDR color, or High Dynamic Range. It's simply a firmware addition. However, by flashing the firmware to support HDR or "Level A" HDMI, it then causes cables to fail, providing the source material and TV are both capable of supporting this feature, especially if the cable is over certain lengths.

So, if any manufacturer labels HDMI cables as supporting HDMI 2.0, it's not deceptive, nor is it unethical, but it is trading on being TECHNICALLY correct, as HDMI "LEVEL B" allows for this claim to be made. It reminds me of politicians saying something that is technically true, but out of context. I digress.

I have yet to see anyone make a claim of supporting HDMI 2.0A standards for any HDMI cable. It's the length of the cable that is preventing the HDR feature. The bandwidth requirement for HDR (18Gbps range) seems to fade out after certain lengths, which varies from 15' to 25', depending on how well made the cable is. Even fiber Optic HDMI only states support up to [email protected] Cat7a specs show it can support up to 40Gbps Ethernet, but whether or not that will come to fruition for HDBaseT/Valens in the near future is anyone's guess.

The "PREMIUM" HDMI certification labeling will, hopefully, take care of this issue. However, without an active cabling solution to push the signal properly, the length of the cable is the bottleneck.

As far as sources, I haven't invested in a Roku4, nor will I order the new Samsung or Panasonic 4K Blu-Ray players until a solution is reached to allow the signals to pass to the TV. Until then, it's a waste of time and effort. The only reason my equipment was even upgraded was due to a direct lightning strike and wonderful home insurance. Which of course, set me on the quest for a Full 4K HDMI 2.0A solution in the first place.

So, the person that stated HDMI 2.0b earlier and was chastised, this IS a standard. According to most charts, anyway. However, I think most people refer to HDMI 2.0 for the Level B and HDMI 2.0a for Level A standards.


----------



## danbfree

fizban11 said:


> Kurt, MyCableMart sent me a 10M HDMI cable with a modified PRA1700 Redmere chip for testing back at the end of November. It failed for anything in the 18Gbps range. The president of the company is a nice guy and really seems like he wants to help. When they get a solution, hopefully, they will contact me.
> 
> I am sure you know and understand this, but many people still seem confused. You may have stated all this information before, but in case you didn't, I'll add in my two-cents worth to try and clear-up the muddy water. My purpose is not to correct or preach, so please everyone, keep in mind the spirit of which this is written.
> 
> Many people keep talking about HDMI 2.0 specs - from the chart that was developed by Sony that I posted on this forum a while back, HDMI 2.0 really isn't in question. The minimum standards for HDMI 2.0 are met easily for most cables as these are demanding 10.2Gbps throughput and are labeled as HDMI "Level B". Including those that you sell, as they are all 15' and under, which should allow for both HDMI 2.0B and HDMI 2.0A specs.
> 
> As I understand it, for higher bandwidth requirements (18 Gbps range) to support 4K 60Hz at color depths of 4:4:4 chroma, this is actually labeled as HDMI 2.0 "Level A", as this adds in HDR color, or High Dynamic Range. It's simply a firmware addition. However, by flashing the firmware to support HDR or "Level A" HDMI, it then causes cables to fail, providing the source material and TV are both capable of supporting this feature, especially if the cable is over certain lengths.
> 
> So, if any manufacturer labels HDMI cables as supporting HDMI 2.0, it's not deceptive, nor is it unethical, but it is trading on being TECHNICALLY correct, as HDMI "LEVEL B" allows for this claim to be made. It reminds me of politicians saying something that is technically true, but out of context. I digress.
> 
> I have yet to see anyone make a claim of supporting HDMI 2.0A standards for any HDMI cable. It's the length of the cable that is preventing the HDR feature. The bandwidth requirement for HDR (18Gbps range) seems to fade out after certain lengths, which varies from 15' to 25', depending on how well made the cable is. Even fiber Optic HDMI only states support up to [email protected] Cat7a specs show it can support up to 40Gbps Ethernet, but whether or not that will come to fruition for HDBaseT/Valens in the near future is anyone's guess.
> 
> The "PREMIUM" HDMI certification labeling will, hopefully, take care of this issue. However, without an active cabling solution to push the signal properly, the length of the cable is the bottleneck.
> 
> As far as sources, I haven't invested in a Roku4, nor will I order the new Samsung or Panasonic 4K Blu-Ray players until a solution is reached to allow the signals to pass to the TV. Until then, it's a waste of time and effort. The only reason my equipment was even upgraded was due to a direct lightning strike and wonderful home insurance. Which of course, set me on the quest for a Full 4K HDMI 2.0A solution in the first place.
> 
> So, the person that stated HDMI 2.0b earlier and was chastised, this IS a standard. According to most charts, anyway. However, I think most people refer to HDMI 2.0 for the Level B and HDMI 2.0a for Level A standards.


I don't believe 4:4:4 chroma implies HDR, it just means each pixel is not subsampled down to save bandwidth. with a 4k60p signal, this alone would take 18.2 gbps, I'm not sure if adding HDR on top of that implies additional bandwidth but I believe so. And you are indeed correct about length and certification, just about any decent quality "High Speed" cable will work up to 10' or so, it's only once you get to 15'+ that we see the need for cables able to maintain that full bandwidth.

And is it a longer distance that is causing you problems as you mention in your 2nd to last paragraph? Your receiver is too far away to connect closer to the TV?


----------



## danbfree

juajar said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I have a UN40JU6700 and a Gygabyte GTX 960 currently running @60hz 4:4:4 on the Mediabridge cable (6').
> 
> I really need a 15' run but so far have been unsuccessfull with both the Kabledirect Pro and the Monoprice Redmere cables. The monoprice cuts off and on and the Kabeldirect wont even show a picture. Im looking for a 15' cable that will work with my setup and was wondering if anyone has used a specific 15' cable that works. I know a lot have gotten the Kabeldirect one to work so Im not sure if it may have been a faulty cable that I got. The cable works perfectly on @30Hz though.
> 
> I appreciate any suggestions or comments.


That is strange as I only get the very occasional cutout at TWENTY feet with KabelDirekt and I'm going from a cheap GTX 950 to a REALLY cheap RCA TV... I think some of the TV chipsets are more sensitive than others. Like others have already said, I'm thinking you should try one of Kurt's cables, should work fine at 15'...


----------



## danbfree

emergetech said:


> Have you tried a Blue Jeans Cable? They claim that they have a 15 ft. cable that will work.
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm


I have a feeling even their 24awg Chinese cable should work fine at 15', it seems the fatter the better with passive cables, but then again, it seems his TV chipset is pretty sensitive if a 15' KabelDirekt only handles 30Hz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

25' for a passive cable is the "historical" cut-off length for most cables to be certified at for 10.2Gbps (HDMI 1.4 hardware spec). Any distance longer requires a thicker gauge wire (up to some point) or an active cable. The reliable length for a passive cable to certified for 18Gbps has yet to be determined reliably. It could end up being 15' for all we know. If the cable has been tested and certified by an HDMI Licensing ATC for 18Gbps, then the implication that any video specification that requires that bandwidth will be met. I haven't seen anything from HDMI.org yet that specifies Level A or Level B cables, even though to be honest I haven't been to their site in awhile. HDMI 2.0a is just the flash to the current HDMI 2.0 chipset that adds HDR. A newer set of chipsets will be, or is already here, that don't need to be flashed to 2.0a and are going to be more robust (HDMI2.0a/HDCP2.2 on a single board) that will probably take care of the issues that some are seeing. Those chipsets will more than likely be incorporated into 2016 and beyond devices (tv's, BD players, etc).

As far as devices other than tv's having compatible HDMI 2.0a chipsets, that I'm not sure of. I don't know if device mfrs have to follow the same build protocols for their HDMI 2.0 chipsets or not. Do they all get them from a common source, do they modify the chipsets somehow to work with their own particular device, who knows? Again I think those issues will diminish in time with newer devices and a little more standardization.


----------



## fizban11

danbfree said:


> I don't believe 4:4:4 chroma implies HDR, it just means each pixel is not subsampled down to save bandwidth.


DanbFree, this is exactly what I mean about the confusion. I'll attach the chart again. The TV's are too far from the central closet AV rack so I had to run the cables inside the wall, up to the attic, down to each location. The TV in my living room can be reached with a cable running across the floor with a 15' passive cable, which supported the full 4K, 60Hz 4:4:4 signal to display the Apple AirPlay, Bluetooth and FM tuner video interface on the TV, when the TV port is set to UHD mode. The cables in the wall won't display anything.

If you will notice, I said 4k 60Hz @ 4:4:4 Chroma, all together. This is the topic of the forum as well as HDR. According to the chart, there is only one place you can have 4K, 60Hz and 4:4:4 Chroma at the same time, and that is at 8-bit color in the 18Gbps range. Just saying 4k @ 4:4:4 chroma can imply both 24Hz(p) and 30Hz(p) at 8-bit color, which is in the 10.2 Gbps range. Now, if you take this and up the Hz(p) to 50/60Hz, the Chroma downsamples to 4:2:0, stays at 8-bit, stays at 10.2 Gbps and is in the HDMI Level B column. Then moving from the Level B standard to Level A adds in HDR.

From all my talks with company owners and HDMI.org reps, Level A, 18Gbps range, is simply adding HDR at different color depths and color bit rates. If you notice, there is only 30Hz(p) and 50/60Hz (p) for the 18Gbps range.

So, the problem with the cables, over certain lengths, is the addition of the color depth (chroma) to the HDR standard. The 4:4:4 Chroma at 12-bit color for 30Hz(p) seems to not have a problem being displayed by my current HDMI cables of 35-ft and 40Ft. As soon as I up the TV to UHD mode, which signals the Marantz AV8802A and Samsung UN65JS9500 to handshake at 4K, 60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, the signals cease.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> As far as devices other than tv's having compatible HDMI 2.0a chipsets, that I'm not sure of.


Several AVR manufacturers have already begun shipping these. Marantz, Pioneer, Pioneer Elite, all have units out that support the full 4K 60Hz @ 4:4:4 and HDR. This is why the whole issue, for me personally, has been so frustrating. TV's began shipping in 2015 with this full support, AVR manufacturers started shipping last year with support for this standard, yet, I can't seem to find a cable over 20-25' to support it. For those of us that do not have the luxury of having equipment close together, then we are out of luck for now. Since I have already tested out an HDMI cable that had a modified Redmere PRA1700 chip that failed at the 4K, 60Hz @ 4:4:4 standard, I am not holding my breath. Not even Fiber Optic HDMI.


----------



## danbfree

fizban11 said:


> DanbFree, this is exactly what I mean about the confusion. I'll attach the chart again. The TV's are too far from the central closet AV rack so I had to run the cables inside the wall, up to the attic, down to each location. The TV in my living room can be reached with a cable running across the floor with a 15' passive cable, which supported the full 4K, 60Hz 4:4:4 signal to display the Apple AirPlay, Bluetooth and FM tuner video interface on the TV, when the TV port is set to UHD mode. The cables in the wall won't display anything.
> 
> If you will notice, I said 4k 60Hz @ 4:4:4 Chroma, all together. This is the topic of the forum as well as HDR. According to the chart, there is only one place you can have 4K, 60Hz and 4:4:4 Chroma at the same time, and that is at 8-bit color in the 18Gbps range. Just saying 4k @ 4:4:4 chroma can imply both 24Hz(p) and 30Hz(p) at 8-bit color, which is in the 10.2 Gbps range. Now, if you take this and up the Hz(p) to 50/60Hz, the Chroma downsamples to 4:2:0, stays at 8-bit, stays at 10.2 Gbps and is in the HDMI Level B column. Then moving from the Level B standard to Level A adds in HDR.
> 
> From all my talks with company owners and HDMI.org reps, Level A, 18Gbps range, is simply adding HDR at different color depths and color bit rates. If you notice, there is only 30Hz(p) and 50/60Hz (p) for the 18Gbps range.
> 
> So, the problem with the cables, over certain lengths, is the addition of the color depth (chroma) to the HDR standard. The 4:4:4 Chroma at 12-bit color for 30Hz(p) seems to not have a problem being displayed by my current HDMI cables of 35-ft and 40Ft. As soon as I up the TV to UHD mode, which signals the Marantz AV8802A and Samsung UN65JS9500 to handshake at 4K, 60Hz, 4:4:4 chroma, the signals cease.


Great stuff, thank you... I should have included mention of 4k60p in my response as that is what I had assumed already, sorry for not being clear... So my question now is: So 4k60p, 4:4:4 8-bit (18.2gbps.HDMI 2.0a) includes HDR support? Or would it have to be at 12-bit with subsampled chroma or lower refresh? I.E. will true HDR require 12-bit?


----------



## fizban11

danbfree said:


> Great stuff, thank you... I should have included mention of 4k60p in my response as that is what I had assumed already, sorry for not being clear... So my question now is: So 4k60p, 4:4:4 8-bit (18.2gbps.HDMI 2.0a) includes HDR support? Or would it have to be at 12-bit with subsampled chroma or lower refresh? I.E. will true HDR require 12-bit?


As far as I can tell, all the 18Gbps means HDR support. I could be wrong, and according to my wife I am regularly wrong. But that's another story. The adopted standards though are backing down on bandwidth requirements from 4K since the aspect ratio for UHD is slightly lower than actual 4K. Heck, I'm guilty of referring to it as 4K because that's what everyone seems to know, yet 4K and UHD are different. One's the cinema industry standard and the other is a consumer display standard. I'm having a hard time finding the specs for the final adopted UHD standards that shows what color depth and color bit. If anyone can point me to them, I would be much obliged.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/174221-no-tv-makers-4k-and-uhd-are-not-the-same-thing

HDR shouldn't require 12-bit as that is in the 4:2:2 color depth. Anything in the 18Gbps range has support for HDR. If I remember correctly, both the new TV (Samsung UN65JS9500) and Pre-Pro (Marantz AV8802A) I have support HDR up to 10-bit, so that would cover the 8-bit 4:4:4 @ 60Hz. Since the bit color is a slightly less and given the display itself is a slightly smaller aspect ratio than true 4K, I would say that I wouldn't need to really approach the 18Gbps ceiling, but still well above the 10.2Gbps range. Thoughts?


----------



## Otto Pylot

If memory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't ) this is what I remember for HDMI 2.0:

[email protected], 4:2:0 with an 8-bit panel at 8.91Gbps 
[email protected], 4:2:0 with a 10-bit panel at 11.14Gbps
[email protected], 4:2:0 with a 12-bit panel at 13.37Gbps
[email protected], 4:2:0 with a 16-bit panel at 17.82Gbps

[email protected], 4:2:2 with an 8-, 10-, or 12-bit panel at 17.82Gbps
[email protected], 4:4:4 with an 8-bit panel at 17.82Gbps

At one time, the hope by some, would be that the industry would settle for UHD at 4:2:2 on a 12-bit panel. The feeling was that a resolution that was greater than 8-bits would be critical to support HDR without banding, which is actually more important, at least to some, than increased number of pixels. And with less-aggressive color subsampling there would be a sharper transition between colors.

So, is there an agreement among the mfrs as to a definition of UHD? Not that I can tell, so it can be just about anything. What about HDR? Dolby Vision or HDR10? Are they the same?

And then we get to what the clock speed actually is for the different versions of HDMI 2.0 chipsets out there. Without knowing that the source chipset is the same clock speed as the sink chipset, what happens to pq? The cable is sort of irrelevant. If you get a nice Premium cable from BJC that is certified by an HDMI Licensing ATC that it will meet all HDMI 2.0 protocols at 18Gbps that's great. One assumes that there won't be any issues at any of the other bandwidths/resolutions. But the cable is just a pipe and only transmits what it is being fed. If your pushing 18Gbps from your source, but the sink (panel) is only rated for 13Gbps on a 10-bit panel, what do you get? One assumes that all current HDMI 2.0 chipsets are pushing 18Gbps but is that listed anywhere? 

I am so glad that I'm not in the market for a new tv/BD player right now. We plan on moving in two years so I think I'll just wait and hopefully get more educated , and hopefully by then the industry will have settled down a bit more. I just don't trust them right now.


----------



## husupratt

*Found 2 25ft cables that worked me*

After reading this thread and countless hours going through reviews of ALL hdmi cables available in 25ft on Amazon.com I decided to buy and try AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White). Both cable came in today and guess what? both cable works well for me. 

My setup is EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC GAMING ACX 2.0+ and Samsung js8500 (HDMI UHD color on) [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4

Amazon Basics has 3 different types of HDMI cables; HDMI 1.3, AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and CL3. I have been using the HDMI 1.4 cable for years while they are great for 1080p, but the highest resolution i can get it to work is [email protected] YCbCr 4:2:0, the new cable I got is the AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and it does [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4 flawlessly for me 

Hope this will help


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keep in mind that HDMI.org, the group who licenses and oversee all things HDMI asked the cable mfrs a few years ago to not label their cables as "HDMI 1.4" etc because that was too confusing with the HDMI specs changing so rapidly. There are basically only two types of HDMI cables, standard and High Speed. A high speed HDMI can be further defined as passive or active. If you purchase an HDMI cable that is marketed or labeled as an "HDMI 1.4 or 2.0" cable it is more than likely a cheap Chinese counterfeit, or a very old cable that was made before HDMI.org changed the labeling requirements. If the cable works for you with the newer video demands that's great. You're lucky.

The current maximum, certifiable distance for a passive High Speed HDMI cable at 10.82Gbps is 25'. They will work at longer lengths but there's no guarantee. There are no "standard number designations" for HDMI cables as there are no standards per se for HDMI cables. If you get a cable that comes with a Certificate of Compliance that's about as close as you can get to a guarantee that the cable will meet all current HDMI 2.0 protocols, with the exception of 18Gbps, because there is only one cable mfr so far who is certifying that speed by an HDMI Licensing approved ATC.

CL3 is a fire rating and has no bearing on the functionality of the cable.


----------



## fizban11

husupratt said:


> After reading this thread and countless hours going through reviews of ALL hdmi cables available in 25ft on Amazon.com I decided to buy and try AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White). Both cable came in today and guess what? both cable works well for me.
> 
> My setup is EVGA GeForce GTX 970 SSC GAMING ACX 2.0+ and Samsung js8500 (HDMI UHD color on) [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4
> 
> Amazon Basics has 3 different types of HDMI cables; HDMI 1.3, AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and CL3. I have been using the HDMI 1.4 cable for years while they are great for 1080p, but the highest resolution i can get it to work is [email protected] YCbCr 4:2:0, the new cable I got is the AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) and it does [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4 flawlessly for me
> 
> Hope this will help


The JS8500 will support 4:4:4 chroma 3840x2160 but only at 8-bit, which keeps in line with even the latest UN65JS9500 that I have. Page 151 of the manual. 20'-25' is the magic cut-off for HDMI cables to support a full UHD signal (4K for those that want to say it.) Unfortunately, a 25ft cable won't work for me since I need a bit longer. to reach of my TV's from the central closet rack. You are lucky.


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> If memory serves me correctly (which it usually doesn't ) this is what I remember for HDMI 2.0:
> 
> [email protected], 4:2:0 with an 8-bit panel at 8.91Gbps
> [email protected], 4:2:0 with a 10-bit panel at 11.14Gbps
> [email protected], 4:2:0 with a 12-bit panel at 13.37Gbps
> [email protected], 4:2:0 with a 16-bit panel at 17.82Gbps
> 
> [email protected], 4:2:2 with an 8-, 10-, or 12-bit panel at 17.82Gbps
> [email protected], 4:4:4 with an 8-bit panel at 17.82Gbps
> 
> At one time, the hope by some, would be that the industry would settle for UHD at 4:2:2 on a 12-bit panel. The feeling was that a resolution that was greater than 8-bits would be critical to support HDR without banding, which is actually more important, at least to some, than increased number of pixels. And with less-aggressive color subsampling there would be a sharper transition between colors.
> 
> So, is there an agreement among the mfrs as to a definition of UHD? Not that I can tell, so it can be just about anything. What about HDR? Dolby Vision or HDR10? Are they the same?
> 
> And then we get to what the clock speed actually is for the different versions of HDMI 2.0 chipsets out there. Without knowing that the source chipset is the same clock speed as the sink chipset, what happens to pq? The cable is sort of irrelevant. If you get a nice Premium cable from BJC that is certified by an HDMI Licensing ATC that it will meet all HDMI 2.0 protocols at 18Gbps that's great. One assumes that there won't be any issues at any of the other bandwidths/resolutions. But the cable is just a pipe and only transmits what it is being fed. If your pushing 18Gbps from your source, but the sink (panel) is only rated for 13Gbps on a 10-bit panel, what do you get? One assumes that all current HDMI 2.0 chipsets are pushing 18Gbps but is that listed anywhere?
> 
> I am so glad that I'm not in the market for a new tv/BD player right now. We plan on moving in two years so I think I'll just wait and hopefully get more educated , and hopefully by then the industry will have settled down a bit more. I just don't trust them right now.


As of 05 Jan 2016, the UHD industry standard was set :"For devices, the UHD Alliance said a 'Premium' logo can only be borne by a screen that displays an image resolution of at least 3840 by 2160 pixels, with a display reproduction capable of 90 percent of P3 colours and a 10-bit signal for colour depth." - from http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2016-01/05/uhd-alliance-ces-2016 - Which of course means that even the new TV I was able to procure this summer will be SOL as it only supports up to 8-bit 4:4:4 @ 60Hz. It will support 10-bit and 12-bit, but at 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 chroma. However, the ONE Box, or whatever Samsung is calling the LORD OF THE PORTS box, is able to be switched out as new tech emerges. It's possible, that a new one that supports 10-bit color 4:4:4 Chroma will become available.

Now, the Blu-Ray Association also released their specs on the new standards this past summer, http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-4k-blu-ray-what-we-know/ - sadly all the cool features at 10-bit. It does note that from 2.0 to 2.0a adds HDR for those that care to read the entire article.

To address audio, from what I found in the following article links posted below, "for example there are two object-based sound formats -- DTS:X and Dolby Atmos. However, a spokesperson for the BDA said that specific audio support is optional and not mandatory so "if it's on the disc it's passed through". This is the only place I am a snob, a bona-fide AUDIO SNOB. Steaming, HEVC265, good enough resolution for me, but audio - don't mess with my audio. Streaming doesn't allow for anywhere near the same quality as Blu-Ray now, let alone for 4K for ATMOS or DTS:X. I want my new speakers to really get some exercise!

To address the different chips out there, in talking with the engineers for Marantz while trying to track down my issue with the cable this summer, they noted that the Marantz chip is always looking down the pipe to "see" what's on the other end. It sees that the TV (when in UHD port mode) can support the highest resolution of 4:4:4 Chroma @ 60Hz, 3840x2160, so it tries to match. Even though it can "see" the TV's chip, when it tries to send the signal, the TV won't display it - which I later found out via the passive 15' HDMI cable - was a cabling issue. So, from what they said, clock speeds of different chips are irrelevant as the units will try and match the signal with what can be displayed.

I can say this, Marantz shipped the AV8802 in early 2015, the standards for HDMI 2.0a were released, and they made a change offer. Those with the original model could send them in for a hardware change to a full 2.0a HDMI panel on the back. In June of 2015, for those of us who waited, they began to ship the AV8802A model with the change already incorporated. This is what I was able to procure. I would then assume, if the ports are 2.0a standard, then the clock speeds should match. If not, then the TV will only display up to the HDMI 2.0 standard.

As a side note, I'm not one who adopts this early. Like you, I intended to wait. I usually wait until things settle before I attempt to convince my wife why I need the shiny new AV toy. Mother Nature took that decision out of my hands. I've been researching this ever since. Trust: I agree, I don't trust the industry. But the industry better get themselves in agreement fast as BDR sales are declining rapidly thanks to streaming (for people that accept 5.1 DOLBY ) At least I didn't waste the college education. It's come in handy trying to keep on top of all of this.


----------



## husupratt

fizban11 said:


> The JS8500 will support 4:4:4 chroma 3840x2160 but only at 8-bit, which keeps in line with even the latest UN65JS9500 that I have. Page 151 of the manual. 20'-25' is the magic cut-off for HDMI cables to support a full UHD signal (4K for those that want to say it.) Unfortunately, a 25ft cable won't work for me since I need a bit longer. to reach of my TV's from the central closet rack. You are lucky.




I can do [email protected] 4:4:4 at 8 bit or [email protected] 4:4:4 at 12 bit with both cable.


----------



## fizban11

husupratt said:


> I can do [email protected] 4:4:4 at 8 bit or [email protected] 4:4:4 at 12 bit with both cable.


Then that would be news to me! 4:4:4 at 12-bit 30Hz is supposed to be at 4096x2160, not 3840x2160. The extra bandwidth and bits are for changing the screen ratio from 1.78:1 to 1.9:1 (tehcnically 1.89:1, but who cares.) From the chart I posted earlier, if it's [email protected] and 4:4:4, it should be at 8-bit. I would send a screenshot to Samsung and ask them why it's doing that when it clearly isn't in the manual. Again, keep in mind, these cables you are using are 25'. What I have clearly discussed earlier is that under the 20'-25' length, magically most passive cables work. I can state that I tried a 15' active Redmere from Amazon by running it directly along the floorboard and it did NOT work for UHD.


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## Otto Pylot

fizban11 - interesting information. I'd have to look into the "chip seeing" the other chip and making adjustments. I'd like to think that's accurate and not just Marantz feeding you a line. Can't say either way. As far as the claims of other posters who are supposedly getting 4:4:4 it would be nice to know how they determined that.

I think the cable length, as we both have discussed, is a critical factor. Until HDMI.org or someone determines the optimal or maximum length for a passive cable for UHD/HDR etc it's going to be hit and miss. The active cables could just have an issue with the type of Redmere chip technology they have as far as timing, error corrections, etc.


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## husupratt

Both cable I purchased are based off review of prior successful story displaying [email protected] 4:4:4. So maybe we got lucky but when more the one person are getting lucky with same cable(s) I think its worth the risk for who ever wants to give it a try. It will be a $14 or $19 mistake if it doesn't workout for you.

AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard)

PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return


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## rhodesj

Well, I tried a 35' Monster Video ISF 2000HD Hyper Speed HDMI Cable. It's some form of active Redmere cable. And it almost worked. I got video between my GTX950 and JS8500 at 2160p 60Hz 4:4:4, but with sparkly artifacts and an occasional complete loss of signal.

Off to try some 25 footers; I think I can manage to shortcut my existing inwall run somewhat...


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## Otto Pylot

I think distance is the key here, and that hasn't been reliably established yet for 4k, 4:4:4: at 60Hz, even with active cables. The chipsets will probably need to be modified to handle the timing, etc. needed. I don't even want to venture a guess at what you paid for that Monster cable. Is your in-wall cable installed in a conduit by any chance? Have you considered solid core CAT-6/7 and some sort of active termination like HDBT?


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## rhodesj

$80 from Amazon, and it's going back.

No conduit, but it's a pretty simple run, just drops down into the laundry room where I have all the AV gear on a shelf, so I can add something new without too much trouble.

Are there HDBT devices that support 4k/60/4:4:4 and HDCP2.2? I'll admit only having done a cursory search, but couldn't find any that clearly did.


----------



## danbfree

husupratt said:


> Both cable I purchased are based off review of prior successful story displaying [email protected] 4:4:4. So maybe we got lucky but when more the one person are getting lucky with same cable(s) I think its worth the risk for who ever wants to give it a try. It will be a $14 or $19 mistake if it doesn't workout for you.
> 
> AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard)
> 
> PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return


Good stuff! it just goes to show a decent quality, THICK High-speed cable should work great... The Amazon one is what I'd with for cost, you just give up the flexibility of thinner cables, really.


----------



## pdasterly

I'm experiencing a/v dropouts, accessories4less recommended me ethereal cables >
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ilver-plated-cable-w/ethernet-4k-16-ft/1.html

Haven't received yet but they say this cable is 4k certified whatever that means. 
These are going to replace some monoprice hdmi cables


----------



## Otto Pylot

pdasterly said:


> I'm experiencing a/v dropouts, accessories4less recommended me ethereal cables >
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ilver-plated-cable-w/ethernet-4k-16-ft/1.html
> 
> Haven't received yet but they say this cable is 4k certified whatever that means.
> These are going to replace some monoprice hdmi cables


That cable is a passive 16' cable. The poster needs a 25' - 35' cable. All passive HDMI cables can handle 4k up to 25'. The problem arises when one wants to send the higher video demands of 4k. The link above claims certification by DPL Labs. If DPL Labs is an HDMI Licensing approved ATC that's good because of the standardized testing protocols. If not, who know what DPL uses as a "standard" for testing. No mention of 18Gbps, which is the latest buzz-word so without the speed tested at that bandwidth from an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) at the length of cable you purchase, the certification is almost meaningless. No mention of whether the cable length you purchased ships with a Certificate of Compliance. I'm sure DPL is reputable but one has to be careful with carefully worded cable mfr claims.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhodesj said:


> $80 from Amazon, and it's going back.
> 
> No conduit, but it's a pretty simple run, just drops down into the laundry room where I have all the AV gear on a shelf, so I can add something new without too much trouble.
> 
> Are there HDBT devices that support 4k/60/4:4:4 and HDCP2.2? I'll admit only having done a cursory search, but couldn't find any that clearly did.


A straight drop is good, and easy. I haven't looked at the latest HDBT specs so I can't answer that specific question. If Joe sees this thread he may be able to shed better light on that. A thicker gauge, passive cable was suggested and that may work but at 30', I kinda doubt it. You definitely lose flexibility not to mention increased strain on the HDMI inputs. As I've said, I think trying to reliably push the higher video protocols of HDMI 2.0a is a challenge because of cable run length and the chipsets in the active cables are not quite up to speed yet as far as error correction, timing, etc. It's one thing to test a cable at a given length in a straight line but most of us have cables that are bent to one degree or another so who knows what happens.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> All passive HDMI cables can handle 4k up to 25'. The problem arises when one wants to send the higher video demands of 4k. The link above claims certification by DPL Labs. If DPL Labs is an HDMI Licensing approved ATC that's good because of the standardized testing protocols. If not, who know what DPL uses as a "standard" for testing. No mention of 18Gbps, which is the latest buzz-word so without the speed tested at that bandwidth from an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) at the length of cable you purchase, the certification is almost meaningless. No mention of whether the cable length you purchased ships with a Certificate of Compliance. I'm sure DPL is reputable but one has to be careful with carefully worded cable mfr claims.


Otto, I'm not sure why you started with that first sentence, the rest of what you say makes total sense, but you know that MANY cables have a hard time with 4k60p 4:4:4 beyond *15* feet... I had to try a number just to find one that works at 20 ft, couldn't find a passive cable that worked at all at 25 ft.

But obviously you're right overall, there all kinds of manufacturer claims with only Blue Jeans Cable selling an actual HDMI certified "Premium" cable that will work passively up to 25 ft. Literally any other claim is just that, a claim and no one knows for sure what you will get. I think all that's been really made clear is the thicker the better when going over distance, it seems like at 25' any decent quality "High Speed" 24awg cable will work passively.


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## Otto Pylot

I guess my "up to 25'" was a little confusing. We don't know the actual length yet and there are some who have had success at 25', at least they claim success. When people discuss 4k that can be a fairly broad subject unless they narrow it down to the specific spec of [email protected], 4:4:4, which this thread originally did. But my comment is still technically correct. 4k can cover color sampling at 4:2:0, to 4:2:2, to 4:4:4, depending on color depth and bandwidth. I've heard mention that there are some in the industry to want to settle UHD as a standard of 4:2:2 at 12-bits.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> I guess my "up to 25'" was a little confusing. We don't know the actual length yet and there are some who have had success at 25', at least they claim success. When people discuss 4k that can be a fairly broad subject unless they narrow it down to the specific spec of [email protected], 4:4:4, which this thread originally did. But my comment is still technically correct. 4k can cover color sampling at 4:2:0, to 4:2:2, to 4:4:4, depending on color depth and bandwidth. I've heard mention that there are some in the industry to want to settle UHD as a standard of 4:2:2 at 12-bits.


Exactly, at 25 ft I have gotten some cables to work at 30Hz or with sub-sampled colors... 4k60p 4:4:4 requires the full 18gbps spec of HDMI 2.0a so that is where we are seeing the most problems at... 4:2:2 12-bit also requires 18gbps, right? So either way, hopefully we will see more widely available cables that certifiably support that speed up to 25 ft.

In the mean time, for people that don't want to pay a lot, simply go with the shortest and thickest High Speed cable you can get away with... we are seeing that Amazon Basics working at 25 ft for only $14, it appears to be 24awg or thicker. Personally, before I knew about that one, I went with a KabelDirekt 20ft for $13 that works well, i think it's probably 26awg.


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## rhodesj

Well, I just tried a pair of 25' footers:

Amazon Basics High Speed (Latest Standard): No dice. No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.

Kabel Direct TOP Series: I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts. 

I also emailed WyreStorm and Atlona, and neither have solutions that will do 18 Gbps.

So right now it seems that I literally have no options other than trying to make my run shorter.


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## rhodesj

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> We're actually waiting right now for the next generation of Redmere to come out (expected in a month or so) so that we can do 18 Gig active cables


Kurt, assuming these work out, are you able to ballpark estimate when you'll have a solution ready for 18 Gbps at 25-35 feet? 6 months? More? Less? There basically seems to be no options at all right now, so I'm really just wondering when I should be following up on this.


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## Otto Pylot

rhodesj said:


> Well, I just tried a pair of 25' footers:
> 
> Amazon Basics High Speed (Latest Standard): No dice. No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.
> 
> Kabel Direct TOP Series: I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts.
> 
> I also emailed WyreStorm and Atlona, and neither have solutions that will do 18 Gbps.
> 
> So right now it seems that I literally have no options other than trying to make my run shorter.


That's unfortunate. As we've been saying for a long time, length for that particular HDMI 2.0a spec is going to be problematic. An active cable would be the obvious choice but I don't think the Redmere chipsets are capable yet to reliably handle the bandwidth, error checking, timing, etc needed for 4k, 4:4:[email protected] It would appear for now that a shorter length, if possible, is the only workaround or possibly and thicker gauge passive cable. BJC's certified Premium cables would be the ones that I would feel most comfortable with as far as "certification" goes but they are still a work in progress.


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## danbfree

rhodesj said:


> Well, I just tried a pair of 25' footers:
> 
> Amazon Basics High Speed (Latest Standard): No dice. No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.
> 
> Kabel Direct TOP Series: I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts.
> 
> I also emailed WyreStorm and Atlona, and neither have solutions that will do 18 Gbps.
> 
> So right now it seems that I literally have no options other than trying to make my run shorter.


Yep, KabelDirekt at 20ft works for me, I had to make my run a little shorter... And FYI, all their Series are the same internally, the Pro series literally just adds a braiding and the Flex only goes up to 15ft... and to their credit, they say starting at 25ft a repeater may be required, but I don't think there has been a lot of luck at 18gbps being repeated over distance.


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## Anodynic

Just wanted to send a note of appreciation to the most active posters that have supplied so much valuable research and experiences on this thread. I'm replacing my entire hodgepodge of cables of various ages and retail costs after observing that a few of my issues were resolved by swapping cables. I had my cart all set up at a couple different suppliers' web sites and, and thought, ya know, let's dig a little deeper over at the AVS forums. It has drastically changed my final order, for example to try good quality passive cables for my runs (all less than 15') rather than sticking in an active cable on the longest one 'for good measure'. It feels good to know I'm giving myself the best chance at success right off the bat, and if something still doesn't work out I have some ideas about what to do.
Cheers,
Bryan


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## danbfree

OK, so I just moved and I REALLY could use a 25' that works for 4k60p 4:4:4. I thought I could go 20' easily but now realize with my TV mounted above a fireplace that I now need extra length to run for cable management... I'd like to try some VERY thick cable, Blue Jeans Cable has a clearance on their cheaper import 22 AWG so I wonder if that would work.... Even that isn't real cheap at $29 and is thicker than I'd like, but if I knew for sure it would work then it would be worth it... Otherwise I might try some 24 AWG off Amazon or Monoprice... Either way, I'll report back with my results with whatever I order.


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## Coreyavs

So is there a 10m active cable that anyone can suggest that can support 4k 60Hz 4:4:4?


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## danbfree

So in my quest to find a reasonably priced 25' cable that will work with 4k60p 4:4:4 I just ordered THIS ONE from Amazon... It looks to be a decent build quality at 26 AWG, I'll report back with my results in a couple of days... I'm using a GTX 950 to a cheap RCA 65" that surprisingly does HDMI 2.0 w/HDCP 2.2 with 4:4:4 chroma on all 4 ports.... If it supports 4:4:4 chroma at 4k60p that is what is referred to as HDMI 2.0a, correct?


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## Otto Pylot

Good luck with those cables. For 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz it seems to be a crap shoot as to which cable will work, especially at lengths longer than about 15'. The only thing you can really do at this point in time is purchase a cable that is certified by an ATC to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specs, and if you can find one certified by an ATC for 18Gbps that's great. But even then, the length could be a problem. 4:4:4 does not necessarily mean you have HDR (High Dynamic Range) because there is a lot more to that spec than just color sampling. The HDMI hardware needs to support HDMI 2.0a which, on some tv's that came with HDMI 2.0, was a simple firmware upgrade. And all HDMI connected devices need to support HDMI 2.0a.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck with those cables. For 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz it seems to be a crap shoot as to which cable will work, especially at lengths longer than about 15'. The only thing you can really do at this point in time is purchase a cable that is certified by an ATC to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specs, and if you can find one certified by an ATC for 18Gbps that's great. But even then, the length could be a problem. 4:4:4 does not necessarily mean you have HDR (High Dynamic Range) because there is a lot more to that spec than just color sampling. The HDMI hardware needs to support HDMI 2.0a which, on some tv's that came with HDMI 2.0, was a simple firmware upgrade. And all HDMI connected devices need to support HDMI 2.0a.


Right, but 4k60p at 4:4:4 chroma uses 18gbps which is 2.0a spec, right? So if I've had it working in that with shorter lengths then technically both my devices already are 2.0a compliant? Also, the TV claims some kind of wide color gamut, although not HDR. I'm assuming that the full 18gbps connection is needed to at least maximize that... I was just trying to discombobulate all the info out there, thanks for all of your help here.


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## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> Right, but 4k60p at 4:4:4 chroma uses 18gbps which is 2.0a spec, right? So if I've had it working in that with shorter lengths then technically both my devices already are 2.0a compliant? Also, the TV claims some kind of wide color gamut, although not HDR. I'm assuming that the full 18gbps connection is needed to at least maximize that... I was just trying to discombobulate all the info out there, thanks for all of your help here.


Unless you can verify that your tv is receiving, and processing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz you can't really be sure. Your tv mfr (I forget what you have) should be able to confirm that your HDMI 2.0 hardware is 2.0a, or can be flashed to "a". The same is true for your source device. There are lots of very misleading claims by mfrs when it comes to the definition of HDR. HDR-Compatible, Wide Gamut, UHD, UHD-Premium, all of which can be labeled as HDR. As we've been saying all along, the length of cable seems to a factor in reliably sending the signal without any issues. And until HDMI.org or HDMI Licensing comes up with a standard length, like they did for HDMI 1.4, it's a guess. I think too much emphasis is being put on HDR right now anyway, whether it be Dolby Vision or HDR10 or a combo of both. The chroma is only a part of HDR and unless you can a tv that can pump out 4,000 nits or whatever it's supposed to be, your "HDR" will be questionable. The pq may look great but are you really getting HDR by definition or just better pq? 

With 4:4:4, no color pixels are discarded. At 4:2:2 half of the pixels are discarded. However, with lesser color sampling the better the image quality because the transitions between colors is cleaner. All of that is dependent on panel depth (8-bit, 10-bit, etc) and how good the algorithms are to handle the processing. Blu-rays are 4:2:0 and a well made blu-ray has great picture quality.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Unless you can verify that your tv is receiving, and processing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz you can't really be sure. Your tv mfr (I forget what you have) should be able to confirm that your HDMI 2.0 hardware is 2.0a, or can be flashed to "a". The same is true for your source device. There are lots of very misleading claims by mfrs when it comes to the definition of HDR. HDR-Compatible, Wide Gamut, UHD, UHD-Premium, all of which can be labeled as HDR. As we've been saying all along, the length of cable seems to a factor in reliably sending the signal without any issues. And until HDMI.org or HDMI Licensing comes up with a standard length, like they did for HDMI 1.4, it's a guess. I think too much emphasis is being put on HDR right now anyway, whether it be Dolby Vision or HDR10 or a combo of both. The chroma is only a part of HDR and unless you can a tv that can pump out 4,000 nits or whatever it's supposed to be, your "HDR" will be questionable. The pq may look great but are you really getting HDR by definition or just better pq?
> 
> With 4:4:4, no color pixels are discarded. At 4:2:2 half of the pixels are discarded. However, with lesser color sampling the better the image quality because the transitions between colors is cleaner. All of that is dependent on panel depth (8-bit, 10-bit, etc) and how good the algorithms are to handle the processing. Blu-rays are 4:2:0 and a well made blu-ray has great picture quality.


Great info, thanks... and yes, I am somewhat educated on all of this, including the cable lengths making a big difference at 18gbps... I have a 20' KabelDirekt that works now but REALLY need that 5' extra now... I'm pretty sure the KabelDrekt is simply a decent quality 28awg and they claim that *beyond* 25' a repeater may be required... which we now know with any kind of active processing going on that it seems to not like to pass a full 18gbps signal... So I'm hoping with some experimentation and a liberal Amazon Prime return policy that I can experiment a bit more with brands and wire gauge to find some reasonably priced 25' options... Since I have a very cheap 4k TV, I'm not worried about meeting the full future HDR spec but simply know that I've maximized the TV's potential.


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## Coreyavs

We'll it seems that Celerity Fiber HDMI is the solution for long runs so far. I cant get anything to work at 4:4:4 beyond 8m to a JVC 4k projector, my nvidia shield quit working after moving to 10m.

http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.html Supports Hdmi 2.0 [email protected] 4:4:4 18GB/s. 299 at crutchfields for the 35 footer so will likely be ordering that and returning the 10m HDMI cable I currently have. Just waiting on my local AV shop to see if they can source it or just get it from Crutchfields.

I'm a network engineer and 10G over Cat6 has always been a crapshoot at long distances I cant imagine near 20G going anywhere the same distance. Really anything over 5m we go with fiber due to interference in datacenters and those cat6 runs are just from the top of rack switches to the servers in the same or adjacent cabinets.


----------



## danbfree

Coreyavs said:


> We'll it seems that Celerity Fiber HDMI is the solution for long runs so far. I cant get anything to work at 4:4:4 beyond 8m to a JVC 4k projector, my nvidia shield quit working after moving to 10m.
> 
> http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.html Supports Hdmi 2.0 [email protected] 4:4:4 18GB/s. 299 at crutchfields for the 35 footer so will likely be ordering that and returning the 10m HDMI cable I currently have. Just waiting on my local AV shop to see if they can source it or just get it from Crutchfields.
> 
> I'm a network engineer and 10G over Cat6 has always been a crapshoot at long distances I cant imagine near 20G going anywhere the same distance. Really anything over 5m we go with fiber due to interference in datacenters and those cat6 runs are just from the top of rack switches to the servers in the same or adjacent cabinets.


May I ask what WAS working for you at 8M/25ft? That's as long as I need to go for now and was looking for a reasonable priced solution... I have a Roku 4, Shield and Geforce 950 card that all uses 4k60P, but specifically the video card I want to make sure I have the 4:4:4 support and that needs a 25' run from the PC to TV.


----------



## W4RLORD

The Blue Jeans Cable Series-FE HDMI cables seem to have good specs and are Premium Certified.


----------



## darrellh44

Coreyavs said:


> We'll it seems that Celerity Fiber HDMI is the solution for long runs so far. I cant get anything to work at 4:4:4 beyond 8m to a JVC 4k projector, my nvidia shield quit working after moving to 10m.
> 
> http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.html Supports Hdmi 2.0 [email protected] 4:4:4 18GB/s. 299 at crutchfields for the 35 footer so will likely be ordering that and returning the 10m HDMI cable I currently have. Just waiting on my local AV shop to see if they can source it or just get it from Crutchfields.
> 
> *I'm a network engineer and 10G over Cat6 has always been a crapshoot at long distances I cant imagine near 20G going anywhere the same distance. Really anything over 5m we go with fiber due to interference in datacenters and those cat6 runs are just from the top of rack switches to the servers in the same or adjacent cabinets*.


CAT6A copper is spec'd to go 100 meters using 10GBASE-T. One problem with fiber for the average user besides the expense is that routing fiber with any sharp fiber bends will cause severe optical attenuation.


----------



## Coreyavs

danbfree said:


> May I ask what WAS working for you at 8M/25ft? That's as long as I need to go for now and was looking for a reasonable priced solution... I have a Roku 4, Shield and Geforce 950 card that all uses 4k60P, but specifically the video card I want to make sure I have the 4:4:4 support and that needs a 25' run from the PC to TV.


It was a 8m Audioquest forest cable, same cable at 10m does not work with the shield unless I drop it to 24p which just looks jerky to me. My Oppo 103D still talks across it, but that could just be that it drives a stronger signal.


However this product at 299 is actually cheaper than my audioquest 10m cable so I'm inclined to give it a try and return the hdmi cable.


----------



## danbfree

W4RLORD said:


> The Blue Jeans Cable Series-FE HDMI cables seem to have good specs and are Premium Certified.


Looks like I'd need to step up to Series-1 for 25' though, and that would be $87... If I *have* to, I will, I was just hoping to avoid paying that much.


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## Otto Pylot

BJC's Premium Series is supposed to certified by an ATC so it might be worth the cost. Apparently their Certificate of Compliance is designed to prevent counterfeit certificates to stop the cheap Chinese knock-offs so you can be assured that you are receiving exactly what you ordered from a Made in America company.

By the way, there is a Blue Jeans Cable Lounge at the end of the forums under Vendor Forums. You might want to check it out for any BJC specific questions.


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## husupratt

Seems like many people still searching for the magic cable ~25' that will display [email protected] 4:4:4, I went through 8 different cable from amazon before I found 2 cables that worked for me. I started my buying spree without enough research and proper knowledge of hdmi cable and chroma 4:4:4. I was buying anything around $10-15 with tons of review and at least 4 or more stars on Amazon, while all can display [email protected] but none of them can do what we want. Then I gave up the random dice rolling tactic and started researching, I was glad I found this forum which contain tons of great informative and helpful info. So i started reading ALL the reviews on Amazon and Monoprice for ALL HDMI cables at 25 feet. (Dont ask how long it took, I had help from 3 nephews) I found one review on this thread, one on amazon and one on monoprice with review that had at least one person or more claiming the cable worked for them displaying [email protected] 4:4:4. My setup is Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 to samsung js8500 via 25ft hdmi cable. Here's the list all the cables i have tried both working and none working.

*None Working*​
1. AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (7.6 Meters) Supports Ethernet, 3D, 4K and Audio Return Had 2 of these for about 3 years or so.

2. C&E CNE451843 High-Speed HDMI Cable Supports Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return (25 Feet)

3. BlueRigger High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet, Supports 3D and Audio Return (25 Feet)

4. Twisted Veins (25 ft) High Speed HDMI Cable + Right Angle Adapter and Velcro Cable Ties 

5. Aurum Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable (25 Ft) with Ethernet - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel [Latest Hdmi Version Available] - 25 Feet

6. Jumbl High-Speed HDMI Category 2 Premium Cable (25 Feet) Supports 3D & 4K Resolution, Ethernet, 1080P and Audio Return - Black

7. Fullink High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet Supports 3D and Audio Return FOR BLURAY 3D DVD PS3 HDTV XBOX LCD HD TV 1080P-25 feet

8. Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return - (Part# 91-02X-25B )


These *NONE* certified cable worked for me​
1. PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return bought this cable because of this review By DMatlow on Amazon

2. AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) 
Someone on this thread claimed they were able to display [email protected] 4:4:4 with AmazonBasics hdmi cable, I knew there are 3 different kind of AmazonBasics HDMI [email protected] ft, I already tried the older type that I had for 3 years and the CL3 hdmi was out of stock so i bout this one.

There there is also this cable from monoprice with successful story that was 3rd in line for me to try if the above 2 didn't workout. Review on monoprice below 


> Works with 4k 60p at 4:4:4 colorspace
> tripleflip, Hainesport, NJ 11/22/2014 3:00:19 PM
> Pros: 4k works at 60p and 4:4:4 colorspace without a hitch.
> 
> Cons: Other then being thick none......
> 
> Bought this cable in 2011, and it worked great. Recently bought LG 4k monitor that supports 4k at 60p and 4:4:4. Called monoprice to ask if this is going to work and they said no. Got my tv and to a great surprise it worked no problem. But i needed a 30ft run, so i bought here 6ft 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI® Cable With Ethernet Male to Female Extension - Black
> Product Number: 6066 connected it to the 25ft and it still worked! Im now running 4k with a 31ft length cable. Great cable at great price!
> 
> Was this review helpful to you? ( 0 ) ( 0 )



Please note that these are not certified, so result may very. While they both worked for me it might not work for you, but they are inexpensive. I posted screen shot of my nvdia control panel on post#305 for those who's interested


----------



## danbfree

husupratt said:


> Seems like many people still searching for the magic cable ~25' that will display [email protected] 4:4:4, I went through 8 different cable from amazon before I found 2 cables that worked for me. I started my buying spree without enough research and proper knowledge of hdmi cable and chroma 4:4:4. I was buying anything around $10-15 with tons of review and at least 4 or more stars on Amazon, while all can display [email protected] but none of them can do what we want. Then I gave up the random dice rolling tactic and started researching, I was glad I found this forum which contain tons of great informative and helpful info. So i started reading ALL the reviews on Amazon and Monoprice for ALL HDMI cables at 25 feet. (Dont ask how long it took, I had help from 3 nephews) I found one review on this thread, one on amazon and one on monoprice with review that had at least one person or more claiming the cable worked for them displaying [email protected] 4:4:4. My setup is Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 to samsung js8500 via 25ft hdmi cable. Here's the list all the cables i have tried both working and none working.
> 
> *None Working*​
> 1. AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (7.6 Meters) Supports Ethernet, 3D, 4K and Audio Return Had 2 of these for about 3 years or so.
> 
> 2. C&E CNE451843 High-Speed HDMI Cable Supports Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return (25 Feet)
> 
> 3. BlueRigger High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet, Supports 3D and Audio Return (25 Feet)
> 
> 4. Twisted Veins (25 ft) High Speed HDMI Cable + Right Angle Adapter and Velcro Cable Ties
> 
> 5. Aurum Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable (25 Ft) with Ethernet - Supports 3D & Audio Return Channel [Latest Hdmi Version Available] - 25 Feet
> 
> 6. Jumbl High-Speed HDMI Category 2 Premium Cable (25 Feet) Supports 3D & 4K Resolution, Ethernet, 1080P and Audio Return - Black
> 
> 7. Fullink High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet Supports 3D and Audio Return FOR BLURAY 3D DVD PS3 HDTV XBOX LCD HD TV 1080P-25 feet
> 
> 8. Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return - (Part# 91-02X-25B )
> 
> 
> These *NONE* certified cable worked for me​
> 1. PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return bought this cable because of this review By DMatlow on Amazon
> 
> 2. AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard)
> Someone on this thread claimed they were able to display [email protected] 4:4:4 with AmazonBasics hdmi cable, I knew there are 3 different kind of AmazonBasics HDMI [email protected] ft, I already tried the older type that I had for 3 years and the CL3 hdmi was out of stock so i bout this one.
> 
> There there is also this cable from monoprice with successful story that was 3rd in line for me to try if the above 2 didn't workout. Review on monoprice below
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that these are not certified, so result may very. While they both worked for me it might not work for you, but they are inexpensive. I posted screen shot of my nvdia control panel on post#305 for those who's interested


THANK YOU for your reply, I'm going to try the Amazon Basics next, we can add the following to the NOT working at 25ft (only 30Hz or 4:2:0 at 60HZ) despite the CLAIM of 18gbps:

FARSTRIDER® HDMI 2.0 Cable 25 Feet (8 Meters) Ultra High Speed, Support 1080P, 4k, 3D, CL3 Rated, Ethernet, Audio Return, In Wall Installation, Zinc M (Looks like 25 ft is not even offered anymore, even though I just ordered it a few days ago.


----------



## danbfree

Just a couple of notes to add below...


These *NON* certified cables worked for me​
1. PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return bought this cable because of this review By DMatlow on Amazon

2. AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard) 
Someone on this thread claimed they were able to display [email protected] 4:4:4 with AmazonBasics hdmi cable, I knew there are 3 different kind of AmazonBasics HDMI [email protected] ft, I already tried the older type that I had for 3 years and the CL3 hdmi was out of stock so i bout this one.

* These actually ARE claimed to support 18gbps, like many others, but again the only TRUE certification there is, is the new "Premium" certification that only Blue Jeans Cable has and is not valid on 25ft anyway although they probably do work. Unfortunately the Amazon Basics is out of stock  If the white PlugLug works at $20 and is "only" 26 AWG, I think it would be the best bet for me since it's not outrageously thick, the white will look better being draped off the TV mount and the wife has approved. 

Quote: There there is also this cable from monoprice with successful story that was 3rd in line for me to try if the above 2 didn't workout. Review on monoprice below 

*This makes sense as this is 22 AWG and BJC sells their import 25ft 22 AWG for the same price... At $29 it's not super cheap and is also VERY thick but seems like the safest bet in the $30 max price range.

Thanks again for the input!


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> FARSTRIDER® HDMI 2.0 Cable 25 Feet (8 Meters) Ultra High Speed, Support 1080P, 4k, 3D, CL3 Rated, Ethernet, Audio Return, In Wall Installation, Zinc M (Looks like 25 ft is not even offered anymore, even though I just ordered it a few days ago.


Any cable mfr that advertises/labels their cables as "*HDMI 2.0 Cable" *is probably a cheap Chinese cable because they are not following the cable mfrs guidelines as set forth by HDMI Licensing. The listed specs are the same for any passive, high speed HDMI cable, even with the CL3 fire rating. Zinc Metal Alloy Shielding and 24K Gold connector means nothing.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Any cable mfr that advertises/labels their cables as "*HDMI 2.0 Cable" *is probably a cheap Chinese cable because they are not following the cable mfrs guidelines as set forth by HDMI Licensing. The listed specs are the same for any passive, high speed HDMI cable, even with the CL3 fire rating. Zinc Metal Alloy Shielding and 24K Gold connector means nothing.


Just about all HDMI stock, good or bad quality, is made in China, so I'm not sure why it's even worth mentioning? Anyway, even the Amazon Basics says it "meets HDMI 2.0 standards", claims 18gbps and seems to work, as well as the "PlugLug"... Anyway, it's all pretty much a crap shoot at 25ft, and you are probably right about ones JUST saying "HDMI 2.0", when it's really HDMI 2.0a we want, but I think if it mentions 18gbps, the more likely it's worth trying, although I doubt the PlugLug works at 50 or 75 ft even with a "signal booster". But, not everyone has the budget for or wants to have to spend $90-$300+ on a cable so I figured until the "Premium" standard is widespread we could all help each other with our personal results... Going back to the Amazon one, notice how the longest they make with that claim is 25ft? That sounds even more legit to me... At only $14, why does it have to be out of stock.


----------



## Otto Pylot

BJC cables I believe are made in America and are consistently high quality. As I have said before, any cable mfr that advertises their cables as "HDMI 2.0 Cables" are highly suspect. HDMI 2.0a is just part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec and any, well made, passive HDMI cable should be able to meet those specs, especially if they are certified by an ATC (at least the specs that are covered by 10.2Gbps). "Up to 18Gbps" could mean any bandwidth starting at 8.91GBps and up. It doesn't mean they have been certified for that speed. Mentioning 18Gbps doesn't mean anything. It's just marketing. The cable may work fine at 10' but die at 15'. If you can find a cable that is certified for 18Gbps at a given length, that's about as good as you're going to get. However, cable certification is usually done with the cable in a linear fashion with no bends or any other devices in the chain, which is quite different from the end-users setup.

If you're that insistent on 18Gbps, then your only option is to find a cable certified by an ATC for that bandwidth at a given length. And the longer the distance, the chances of maintaining that speed over time diminishes.


----------



## danbfree

Otto, of course you're right, BJC uses some of the only cable stock made in America. However even their cables are "Premium" certified at only up to 15 feet in Series-FE... My guess is that Series-1, designed for distance, would probably work as well, but the costs to certify so many different lengths, etc can't be cheap. They also cost $87 plus shipping. At 25', which is not too terribly long, I'm thinking that we should be seeing more and more cables able to actually handle/maintain an 18Gbps connection as 4k becomes more popular. I also do enjoy the discussion here on which ones are stepping up and able to deliver, so again thanks for your your input. The Amazon Basics one, at only $14, shows that it doesn't have to take $90+ to make it happen. At this point, after sending back my 3rd cable today, I can feel comfortable trying the PlugLug next for $20 thanks to the input from the others here as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I really do hope you find a cable for a reasonable price that will meet your needs. I think part of the problem is that the industry is pushing these new standards really hard to sell tv's without waiting for the connectivity to catch up and make these new standards that consumers feel they need now a reality.


----------



## EngenZerO

I just had 100 feet of Celerity DFO ran yesterday for my install. I was planning on just having a Key Digital x200proK balun in place but seeing HDbaseT is limited I made an executive decision to gamble on the fiber last minute for the k8500 that I will be getting in a few weeks. Fingers crossed it will work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

As long as you ran in conduit you shouldn't have any problems should you need to swap cables out for something that will work if the DFO doesn't.


----------



## EngenZerO

Otto Pylot said:


> As long as you ran in conduit you shouldn't have any problems should you need to swap cables out for something that will work if the DFO doesn't.



Oh yeah conduit was a must!


----------



## Otto Pylot

EngenZerO said:


> Oh yeah conduit was a must!


Excellent!


----------



## rhodesj

Updated after 1 month of usage with the Pluglug cable, which I've downgraded from success to tolerable.

Hardware is a GTX950 to a Samsung JS8500. All cables are from Amazon.

TOLERABLE:

*PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7

After about one month of usage, I do get occasional dropouts in signal with this cable. I have two that I ran in wall, and the result is the same from both. I get very brief dropouts in signal, lasting not more than a second or so, at a rate of once every couple hours of viewing. Thus I'd describe it as tolerable until I can get a proper cable that will work flawlessly. I've concluded that my in-wall run can be handled with 20' cables, so I'll probably end up going the route of BJC for the sake of being done with this forever.


FAILURES:


*Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return - (Part# 91-02X-25B )*
No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.


*Ultra Clarity 25ft HDMI 2.0 Cable 4k Ultra HD (25 feet) Supports Ethernet, High Speed 18Gbps, 3D, and Audio Return (ARC) - Braided Sleeve - Gold Plated Connectors*
No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.


*AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard)*
No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.


*KabelDirekt (25 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - TOP Series*
I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts. 


*Monster Video ISF 2000HD Hyper Speed HDMI Cable -35 Ft.*
I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts. 


*BlueRigger High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet - CL3 Rated for In-wall Installation - Supports 3D and Audio Return [Latest HDMI version]*
No luck.


*BlueRigger High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet - CL3 Rated for In-wall Installation - Supports 3D and Audio Return [Latest HDMI version]*
No luck.


----------



## doctorwizz

rhodesj said:


> An update on my testing, GTX950 to a Samsung JS8500. All of these are from Amazon.
> 
> SUCCESS:
> 
> *PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return*
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7
> Worked perfectly.
> 
> 
> FAILURES:
> 
> 
> *Mediabridge ULTRA Series HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return - (Part# 91-02X-25B )*
> No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.
> 
> 
> *Ultra Clarity 25ft HDMI 2.0 Cable 4k Ultra HD (25 feet) Supports Ethernet, High Speed 18Gbps, 3D, and Audio Return (ARC) - Braided Sleeve - Gold Plated Connectors*
> No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.
> 
> 
> *AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (Latest Standard)*
> No picture at all at 2160p 60 Hz 4:4:4. Worked fine at 30 Hz.
> 
> 
> *KabelDirekt (25 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - TOP Series*
> I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts.
> 
> 
> *Monster Video ISF 2000HD Hyper Speed HDMI Cable -35 Ft.*
> I got a picture at 60 4:4:4, but full of sparkly artifacts.
> 
> 
> *BlueRigger High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet - CL3 Rated for In-wall Installation - Supports 3D and Audio Return [Latest HDMI version]*
> No luck.
> 
> 
> *BlueRigger High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet - CL3 Rated for In-wall Installation - Supports 3D and Audio Return [Latest HDMI version]*
> No luck.


Interesting. One thing to look for with the 25' Pluglug is a random 3 second black screen. It may only happen once every few hours or even once a day. If it never happens, that is great!


----------



## rhodesj

Good point. I'll probably fish it in the wall this weekend and try it out longer term. Right now I'm dragging the HTPC to the screen and only testing for a few minutes.


----------



## akopperl

This whole cable issue is amazing. This is just like the initial rollout of HDMI and 1080p - cable issues, firmware issues, etc. all leading to major hassles, trial and error and picture issues. 

I just got burned as I got an LG 4K OLED in January. I did some research and made sure I got cables rated to meet the new specifications. Since I had such good luck using Redmere cables with my old setup (the cables being so thin were so easy to work with), I decided to purchase Redmere cables for 4K. When the installers came to wall mount my new TV, I asked them to install the new Redmere cables in-wall. I thought I was being smart as I purchased three different Redmere models from Monoprice (Luxe, Cabernet, and a Ultra Slim Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 18Gbps) and had all three installed to protect myself in case one failed.

When i finally got my 4K sources - Roku 4, Nvidia Shield and Samsung UBD-K8500 - I thought I was good to go. Well needless to say none of the cables worked. The Roku 4K wouldn't allow me to configure 4K as it stated that my setup wasn't compatible with HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, the Shield works at 4K 30Hz but does not show 4K 60Hz as an option and the Samsung proved to be truly interesting. It gave me the same error message as the Roku and defaults to 1080p, however once the actual movie started, the screen went blank. I then went into the setup forcing resolution at 2160 and 4:4:4 color, got the same error message, the picture defaulted to 1080p, but when the movie started the picture appeared displaying 2160. However, it still had an issue as HDR wasn't activated.

Now, I have to have my installer come back, remove the Redmere Cables and install new cables. I've ordered three new cables based on posts in this thread - AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 15 Feet, PlugLug® - HD-1000 Series 2.0 High-Speed HDMI Cable (16 Feet - White) - Triple Shielded, Supports Ethernet, 3D, Audio Return, and CL3 Rated and BJC Series-FE Bonded-Pair Premium High-Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet, 15 foot, Black. I am going to test these cables before my installer comes back.

It's just extremely disappointing that the industry couldn't get this right and apparently have learned very little from all of the missteps during the initial implementation of HDMI.


----------



## Roudan

Thanks . What about 50ft? Any cable works at 50ft? Thx


----------



## danbfree

SUCCESS:

*PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return*
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7
Worked perfectly in a brief test, will continue to test.

*** Just got mine in the mail today and confirmed working for me too: eVGA GTX 950 to RCA 65" 4k60p, RGB Full and 4:4:4 all working great!


----------



## Otto Pylot

akopperl said:


> Now, I have to have my installer come back, remove the Redmere Cables and install new cables. I've ordered three new cables based on posts in this thread - AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 15 Feet, PlugLug® - HD-1000 Series 2.0 High-Speed HDMI Cable (16 Feet - White) - Triple Shielded, Supports Ethernet, 3D, Audio Return, and CL3 Rated and BJC Series-FE Bonded-Pair Premium High-Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet, 15 foot, Black. I am going to test these cables before my installer comes back.
> 
> It's just extremely disappointing that the industry couldn't get this right and apparently have learned very little from all of the missteps during the initial implementation of HDMI.


Assuming you installed your cable in conduit swapping them out shouldn't be that much of a hassle. "Triple shield" and all the other "features" means absolutely nothing. It's all marketing and questionable claims. Same for ethernet. There are no consumer devices that take advantage of that spec.

If your cable run is not installed in a conduit, it's possible that somewhere along the way the bend radius is too much affecting transmission. Lay the cable out on the floor or whatever and test it thoroughly before you install.

I agree about the industry. The specs came out way before the "connectivity technology' was ready. But this is what the tv industry does to get folks all fired up for the newest tech. Make all these claims and if they don't work, blame it on the cable. The cable mfrs, on the other hand, make all these claims as well without "proving" (certification via an HDMI Licensing ATC) their claims.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> SUCCESS:
> 
> *PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return*
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7
> Worked perfectly in a brief test, will continue to test.
> 
> *** Just got mine in the mail today and confirmed working for me too: eVGA GTX 950 to RCA 65" 4k60p, RGB Full and 4:4:4 all working great!


Congratulations. According to the spec from your link "24K Gold Plated Connectors promise an accurate transmission of picture and sound - Stranded Oxygen Free Copper conductors minimize resistance and signal loss - Isolates outside noise for superior clarity with high density triple-shielding - Transfer Rates up to 340Mhz / 10.2Gbps - HDCP Compliant - HDMI ATC 1.4a Certified Warranty ". 24K means nothing as well as stranded oxygen free copper conductors. What's interesting is that the cable is certified for HDMI 1.4a hardware spec at 10.2Gbps and HDCP. Which HDCP spec? The fact the cable description is labeled as" *HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version)" *implies HDMI 2.0 hardware spec. The fastest version is 18Gbps but that's not what the spec say. If it works for you, great! If you have problems down the road.......


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Congratulations. According to the spec from your link "24K Gold Plated Connectors promise an accurate transmission of picture and sound - Stranded Oxygen Free Copper conductors minimize resistance and signal loss - Isolates outside noise for superior clarity with high density triple-shielding - Transfer Rates up to 340Mhz / 10.2Gbps - HDCP Compliant - HDMI ATC 1.4a Certified Warranty ". 24K means nothing as well as stranded oxygen free copper conductors. What's interesting is that the cable is certified for HDMI 1.4a hardware spec at 10.2Gbps and HDCP. Which HDCP spec? The fact the cable description is labeled as" *HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version)" *implies HDMI 2.0 hardware spec. The fastest version is 18Gbps but that's not what the spec say. If it works for you, great! If you have problems down the road.......


I think the bottom-line is that it is a decently made 26 AWG cable with some crap marketing behind it... The Amazon cable for $14 is apparently hit or miss but this is now 3 of us in a row in this thread that this cable has worked for... It's not like this is a $5 cable, at $20 with very cheap foreign labor, there are bound to be some gems out there too . 

Anyway I'll put it through the paces and see how it holds up, but so far this looks to be a winner.


----------



## rhodesj

akopperl said:


> Now, I have to have my installer come back, remove the Redmere Cables and install new cables. I've ordered three new cables based on posts in this thread - AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 15 Feet, PlugLug - HD-1000 Series 2.0 High-Speed HDMI Cable (16 Feet - White) - Triple Shielded, Supports Ethernet, 3D, Audio Return, and CL3 Rated and BJC Series-FE Bonded-Pair Premium High-Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet, 15 foot, Black. I am going to test these cables before my installer comes back.



If you're paying installers to do this and you only need 15 feet, I wouldn't mess around with anything except the BJC cables which are certified for 18Gbps.




> It's just extremely disappointing that the industry couldn't get this right and apparently have learned very little from all of the missteps during the initial implementation of HDMI.


There's some backstory in this thread, but basically, the HDMI.org people said that HDMI 2 wouldn't require new cables, that existing High Speed cables would support the spec. They were wrong; the high speed cables can generally do 10 Gbps, but many can not do 18 Gbps. So they backtracked, and created a new Premium High a speed certification. 

However, based on what you're saying you may not even be doing anything that needs 18Gbps. AFAIK only a PC connection running at 2160p 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma subsampling needs the 18 Gbps bandwidth.


----------



## rhodesj

Roudan said:


> Thanks . What about 50ft? Any cable works at 50ft? Thx


There's only a limited number of passive cables that barely work at 25'. I doubt any will work at 50'.

This may be the only option today: http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.html


----------



## Roudan

rhodesj said:


> There's only a limited number of passive cables that barely work at 25'. I doubt any will work at 50'.
> 
> This may be the only option today: http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.htm


Thanks rhodesj. the link doesn't work. What about Redmere cable. I have one from monoprice 50ft working very well for 1080p with 10gps max. Do they have a redmere cable for 18 or even 22gps? Thanks.


----------



## rhodesj

Typo, fixed the link.

I tried the 35' Monster ISF 2000 cable which supposed is a 22 Gbps active Redmere cable, and it did not work properly. I believe BJC said earlier in the thread that they're waiting for an updated chip from Redmere to make longer 18Gbps cables.


----------



## danbfree

rhodesj said:


> There's only a limited number of passive cables that barely work at 25'. I doubt any will work at 50'.
> 
> This may be the only option today: http://www.celeritytek.com/product-DFO.html


To be fair, there is no such thing as barely, it will either work or it won't... someone mentioned a 35' Monster cable that gave him sparkly artifacts, that's a fail... While the PlugLug 25' seems to be working great for a lot of us, I'm not getting any dropouts at all yet. I was careful to keep bends to an absolute minimum and it's working great at a full 18gbps... what's interesting is that I have a Roku 4 hooked up to the same TV as well and I could use Plex for high quality high bit rate x265 1080p content. However that required some crazy CPU usage to transcode and send over the network. Using VLC and playing directly over HDMI I don't get the high CPU usage and it looks just as good with the same 4k60p connection as both.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhodesj said:


> Typo, fixed the link.
> 
> I tried the 35' Monster ISF 2000 cable which supposed is a 22 Gbps active Redmere cable, and it did not work properly. I believe BJC said earlier in the thread that they're waiting for an updated chip from Redmere to make longer 18Gbps cables.


22Gbps? How did Monster arrive at that speed? Do they offer a certificate of compliance for their 35' active cable that it has been certified by an ATC? Cable mfrs are still playing loose with their claims by making it as confusing as possible for the end-user, not to mention expensive and stressful.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> I think the bottom-line is that it is a decently made 26 AWG cable with some crap marketing behind it... The Amazon cable for $14 is apparently hit or miss but this is now 3 of us in a row in this thread that this cable has worked for... It's not like this is a $5 cable, at $20 with very cheap foreign labor, there are bound to be some gems out there too .
> 
> Anyway I'll put it through the paces and see how it holds up, but so far this looks to be a winner.


Agreed. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this cable works well for you.


----------



## husupratt

Congrats to those who purchased working 25' Pluglug cable, I have my Amazon Basics and Pluglug for about a month or so now, and both are still working great. 




doctorwizz said:


> Interesting. One thing to look for with the 25' Pluglug is a random 3 second black screen. It may only happen once every few hours or even once a day. If it never happens, that is great!


I did have the same black screen issue with an older 3' or 4' sony high speed HDMI cable that i was "testing" before I got the 25' I was looking for. The black screen actually happen very often, i think it has to do with the amount of data needs to go through the cable, cuz I always get black screen on same spot of particular webpage or when watching video it's always the same frame that gets black screen.


----------



## LucasTizma

Love and hate this thread! Love that so much work is going into finding legit cables for this stuff. Hate that it's pretty much a guessing game until HDMI 2.0 certification weeds out the crappy cable vendors.

Anyway, ironically, I got the following cable to work on my Retina 5K iMac, despite it being 40 feet: *KabelDirekt (40 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - TOP Series*. I should note that I am using an active Mini DisplayPort-to-HDMI converter from my iMac to this cable. I don't know if that matters at all.

(Still can't post links. Sorry.)

Confirmed in System Information on OS X that both my iMac and my LG TV are outputting at [email protected] and [email protected], respectively. 30 bit color. For readability's sake, however, I have the TV's effective resolution scaled down to 1080p, though OS X still outputs a Retina 4K stream to the TV.


----------



## ajgale1975

I know people hate them but the Monster Black Platinum do work. I have a couple of those along with the certified BJC's which I love.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ nobody has ever said that Monster doesn't make a good cable, they do. What the objection is is the price. For the most part they are grossly over-priced and you can get high quality cables a lot of the times for considerably less than what you pay for Monster. They are the kings of making claims and slick packaging of their products. That's why places like BB push them, and AudioQuest to a certain extent, so hard. The profit margin on them is very good.


----------



## ajgale1975

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ nobody has ever said that Monster doesn't make a good cable, they do. What the objection is is the price. For the most part they are grossly over-priced and you can get high quality cables a lot of the times for considerably less than what you pay for Monster. They are the kings of making claims and slick packaging of their products. That's why places like BB push them, and AudioQuest to a certain extent, so hard. The profit margin on them is very good.


I agree they are over priced, why i prefer to use BJC, Great quality from a good company. I was simply stating that I've never had issues with Monster cables at the pass through in this discussion, though my longest run is 15'.


----------



## Airborneguy

What about Kabledirekt? I need about a 8ft one, but on Amazon I only see 6 or 10. Which is also why I'm thinking BJC since they go in 1ft increments.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I would look at BJC. They may even have one that is certified for your length by an ATC.


----------



## danbfree

Airborneguy said:


> What about Kabledirekt? I need about a 8ft one, but on Amazon I only see 6 or 10. Which is also why I'm thinking BJC since they go in 1ft increments.


Have you tried one you already have? At 10 ft I bet just about any decent High Speed cable will probably work, it's only at longer lengths that you see any issues... If it means anything, I had great results with the PlugLug at 25 feet, for $12 for the 10ft I'm sure it would work great.


----------



## Airborneguy

danbfree said:


> Have you tried one you already have? At 10 ft I bet just about any decent High Speed cable will probably work, it's only at longer lengths that you see any issues... If it means anything, I had great results with the PlugLug at 25 feet, for $12 for the 10ft I'm sure it would work great.


I have not tried one yet. Everything in my old surround system is getting upgraded to Atmos. I have a 65" Samsung JS8500 4K, a Samsung BD-J500 which im thinking about getting the new Samsung K8500, and Directv Genie.


So right now im running off a Optical cable for the Directv to my old Onkyo because it doesn't have 4K upscaling. So im going to make sure I have all the right components for the best possible results. I have read through this whole forum discussion and understand it is mostly about longer lengths, but still want the best for my stuff on short lengths. I want the best deal like anyone else, but a few extra dollars doesn't bother me.


----------



## danbfree

Airborneguy said:


> I have not tried one yet. Everything in my old surround system is getting upgraded to Atmos. I have a 65" Samsung JS8500 4K, a Samsung BD-J500 which im thinking about getting the new Samsung K8500, and Directv Genie.
> 
> 
> So right now im running off a Optical cable for the Directv to my old Onkyo because it doesn't have 4K upscaling. So im going to make sure I have all the right components for the best possible results. I have read through this whole forum discussion and understand it is mostly about longer lengths, but still want the best for my stuff on short lengths. I want the best deal like anyone else, but a few extra dollars doesn't bother me.


Well, your original question was about KabelDirekt and I can tell you my 25' PlugLug works better than a 20' KabelDirekt so you'll definitely want to avoid those... Definitely just go with BJC then, especially since you can get the length you want fully certified, in this case 9' is Premium certified... I'm sure the 8' would be fine too, I suppose they just didn't want to pay for the certification of EVERY length.


----------



## nunyabiziz

Hello all, I would like to report that these cable works for me on my 65ef9500 and k8500. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...lack/3721001.p?id=1219093275244&skuId=3721001

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk


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## danbfree

nunyabiziz said:


> Hello all, I would like to report that these cable works for me on my 65ef9500 and k8500. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketf...lack/3721001.p?id=1219093275244&skuId=3721001


Those look like a very nice cable, looks to be 24 AWG... I'm not surprised they work fine at 12' for $69 or $59 on Amazon. I'm personally curious if they work at the full 18gbps in their 24' length... but for $140, with no cheaper price out there, I'd just go with the Blue Jean Cables Series 1... Although they aren't Premium certified yet, they ARE heavier duty than their line that is Premium certified at 15' and a 25' will set you back $90 instead of $140 for the RocketFish... No offense, but it comes across with those prices that RocketFish is a wannabe Monster with no justification to charge that much, unlike BJC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. RocketFish is another cable that BB pushes just like Monster because the markup is so high that the profit margin is really nice. Up to 18Gbps means nothing if it's not certified to meet that bandwidth at that length. Silver content soldering and 24k gold-plated contacts also means nothing unless your HDMI inputs are also 24k gold-plated, then the improvement is minimal and most likely not noticeable.


----------



## doctorwizz

I heard that these are the best 50 footers 

50ft HDMI


----------



## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> I heard that these are the best 50 footers
> 
> 50ft HDMI


Yeah, those come up every now and then. They've actually come down a bit in price


----------



## viper14

So i'm in the process of planning my new media room in the basement, since i've moved i have yet to build a new theatre room, i've been reading this thread and getting a little worried about the cables i choose, i went through an old box of cables i had purchased and never used i found this one 40ft HDMI i borrowed a nvidia 970 card and tested it with windows 10, in the beginning i was only able to achieve 4k 60fps 4:2:0 but after doing more reading on my tv (samsung 8550 series) i had ot make a setting change to enable UHD mode on HDMI1,2,3,4 so i enabled it on HDMI 2 which is the HDMI/DVI labeled port after a reboot i was back sitting in the OS i adjusted the nVidia control panel to 4k 60fps 4:4:4. i was working from home the day i tested and left bluray content playing all day long and it never skipped a beat once no audio or picture drops.


----------



## Otto Pylot

viper14 said:


> So i'm in the process of planning my new media room in the basement, since i've moved i have yet to build a new theatre room, i've been reading this thread and getting a little worried about the cables i choose, i went through an old box of cables i had purchased and never used i found this one 40ft HDMI i borrowed a nvidia 970 card and tested it with windows 10, in the beginning i was only able to achieve 4k 60fps 4:2:0 but after doing more reading on my tv (samsung 8550 series) i had ot make a setting change to enable UHD mode on HDMI1,2,3,4 so i enabled it on HDMI 2 which is the HDMI/DVI labeled port after a reboot i was back sitting in the OS i adjusted the nVidia control panel to 4k 60fps 4:4:4. i was working from home the day i tested and left bluray content playing all day long and it never skipped a beat once no audio or picture drops.


Your results are questionable. The cable you reference is rated for 4.95Gbps, which doesn't even meet the 10.2Gbps HDMI 1.4 hardware spec. For 4k 4:4:4 @60Hz you'd need a high speed HDMI cable rated for up to 18Gbps. And at 40' for a passive cable that isn't going to happen. Both HDMI ports have to have the HDMI 2.0(a) hardware chipset to even push that bandwidth. What you have is an older, passive HDMI cable that is probably CL2 rated (fire rating) for in-wall use.


----------



## danbfree

I thought the same thing, about the rating at first, but then I saw it was 22 awg... Remember rating is just that, just what it had been actually tested at. That cable is probably a really old model so it was rated for the standard at the time. There is always the chance it does indeed work and that would lend support to my theory that it's all about decent construction and it's thickness gauge.


----------



## kenoh89

Otto Pylot said:


> 22Gbps? How did Monster arrive at that speed? Do they offer a certificate of compliance for their 35' active cable that it has been certified by an ATC? Cable mfrs are still playing loose with their claims by making it as confusing as possible for the end-user, not to mention expensive and stressful.


could that bandwidth even be used with HDMI2.0? I mean allowing 4k 4:4:4 10bpc at 60hz?


----------



## viper14

Otto Pylot said:


> Your results are questionable. The cable you reference is rated for 4.95Gbps, which doesn't even meet the 10.2Gbps HDMI 1.4 hardware spec. For 4k 4:4:4 @60Hz you'd need a high speed HDMI cable rated for up to 18Gbps. And at 40' for a passive cable that isn't going to happen. Both HDMI ports have to have the HDMI 2.0(a) hardware chipset to even push that bandwidth. What you have is an older, passive HDMI cable that is probably CL2 rated (fire rating) for in-wall use.


i'm not sure why your jumping to conclusions, if its a very thick cable i tested another 40ft cable that wasn't so thick and it failed (couldn't even see the options)attached is some screen shots before and after i made some settings changes this first one was before i adjusted the tv i was thinking i wasn't going to be able to get 4:4:4 on this cable.. but as you can see you cant rely on the rated specs even if i was only getting 4:2:0 its way more then 4.95Gbps:









after i did some more reading and found the option to adjust on my tv i changed this option:









and finally after the tv booted back up i changed it to 4:4:4 and as u can see from the dropdown i can pick all options:


----------



## Otto Pylot

You're extremely lucky then to get 4k 4:4:4 @60Hz with a 40' passive cable rated by the mfr for 4.95Gbps. A thick wire gauge is probably why but with a thick wire gauge you will be putting more stress on the HDMI inputs which, over time, is not a good thing. I hope your connection stays reliable with that cable.


----------



## doctorwizz

viper14 said:


> So i'm in the process of planning my new media room in the basement, since i've moved i have yet to build a new theatre room, i've been reading this thread and getting a little worried about the cables i choose, i went through an old box of cables i had purchased and never used i found this one 40ft HDMI i borrowed a nvidia 970 card and tested it with windows 10, in the beginning i was only able to achieve 4k 60fps 4:2:0 but after doing more reading on my tv (samsung 8550 series) i had ot make a setting change to enable UHD mode on HDMI1,2,3,4 so i enabled it on HDMI 2 which is the HDMI/DVI labeled port after a reboot i was back sitting in the OS i adjusted the nVidia control panel to 4k 60fps 4:4:4. i was working from home the day i tested and left bluray content playing all day long and it never skipped a beat once no audio or picture drops.


Very interesting. 
What chipset does that 8550 have? (Settings, support, contact Samsung, Sub-micron Version)
Did you re-name the input to "PC? That is the only way to display 444 with that TV.


----------



## viper14

software version: T-GFP8AKUC-2280.6
sub-micro Version: T-GOLAUSS6-1008

i did not rename the input

i was reading a few posts over on the geforce forum and everyone was saying to use this file as the test

http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/b4/b4a44044_vbattach208609.png

when i view that file on my tv everything looks perfect as it does on my 15" MBP
here is a picture i took from my cell phone might not look as clear from a phone pic but as u can see everything looks just like the file posted above. with exception of the last line not sure if it was the angle i took the picture with the iphone or something not being picked up properly but on the tv its exact same as the link above











i'm not too concerned about getting the 4k 60 4:4:4 on this display i have a JVC x700 projector that will be setup in the basement my main goal with this exercise was to find a cable that can support the 4k 60hz 4:4:4 so when i run my cables in the celling before drywall i can make sure i have a cable thats future proof for wheni change out this projector for a real 4k device and of corse i'll run a conduit to even more future proof but for now if i have a cable that works at 4k 60hz 4:4:4 40ft this will do.

so based off my information and picture is it actually running in 4k 60hz 4:4:4, if its not then i think theres a problem with the nvidia driver pack because its been telling me all along that its in that res and PQ looks great no flicker etc...


----------



## doctorwizz

viper14 said:


> software version: T-GFP8AKUC-2280.6
> sub-micro Version: T-GOLAUSS6-1008
> 
> so based off my information and picture is it actually running in 4k 60hz 4:4:4, if its not then i think theres a problem with the nvidia driver pack because its been telling me all along that its in that res and PQ looks great no flicker etc...


Actually that picture of the "Fox" test shows your not getting 444 because of last 2 lines. That is how that test works. You are getting 422. You can't get 444 without renaming the input to PC.


----------



## thxman

I am running my Samsung JS8500 with an HTPC using a EVGA GTX 980TI SC card. Resolution is 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz (4:4:4). I needed a 20ft cable for my setup and so far only one worked. Also, I had to enable UHD Color for the input in order to achieve 60Hz. 

Here is what I tired. 


*Worked only at 30Hz*

Monoprice 24AWG High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft Generic
Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft
*Worked at 60Hz and (4:4:4)*

BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable (Saw small white dots if I used with standard port savers, need to try high speed port savers) I have ordered the new Monoprice high speed port savers from Amazon and they are scheduled to arrive today. Will report back.

4K HDMI requirements are going to frustrate a lot of folks if running longer cables


----------



## danbfree

thxman said:


> I am running my Samsung JS8500 with an HTPC using a EVGA GTX 980TI SC card. Resolution is 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz (4:4:4). I needed a 20ft cable for my setup and so far only one worked. Also, I had to enable UHD Color for the input in order to achieve 60Hz.
> 
> Here is what I tired.
> 
> 
> *Worked only at 30Hz*
> 
> Monoprice 24AWG High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft Generic
> Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft
> *Worked at 60Hz and (4:4:4)*
> 
> BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable (Saw small white dots if I used with standard port savers, need to try high speed port savers) I have ordered the new Monoprice high speed port savers from Amazon and they are scheduled to arrive today. Will report back.
> 
> 4K HDMI requirements are going to frustrate a lot of folks if running longer cables


PlugLug HD-1000 (CORRECTION: "Version 2.0" NOT HD-1000) series seems to be working great for everyone at a full 25 feet... I would say get it in 20 ft if you can but they jump from 16 to 25 ft and the 25 ft ones are working great... Available in white or black for only $20 for 25 ft on Amazon, they simply are well made 26 awg cables that actually meet their CLAIMED 18gbps rating, unlike all these others many of us have been trying. Edit: Also to note, at 25 ft, I had extra room to gently let the cable come from the awkward upward HDMI connection of the TV without using port savers. It also doesn't hurt that my TV is extension arm mounted so the cable has plenty of rear room to curve off gently.


----------



## viper14

doctorwizz said:


> Actually that picture of the "Fox" test shows your not getting 444 because of last 2 lines. That is how that test works. You are getting 422. You can't get 444 without renaming the input to PC.


what should i be seeing on these last 2 lines the picture on the tv looks identical to the picture on my MBP laptop... not sure what should be different, i just renamed the input to pc and rebooted, picture looks the same and i have the nvidia software set to 444

all the text is clear and crisp i know my image the last line doesn't look great taking a picture with my phone but on the screen its crisp... i've snapped another shot a little closer to see if it shows up properly with an iphone camera










also renaming the input to "PC" doesn't make any difference, i've even tested the same image at 30hz 4:4:4 and it looks the same as it does at 60hz still not sure what should be different...


Thanks


----------



## danbfree

viper14 said:


> what should i be seeing on these last 2 lines the picture on the tv looks identical to the picture on my MBP laptop... not sure what should be different, i just renamed the input to pc and rebooted, picture looks the same and i have the nvidia software set to 444
> 
> all the text is clear and crisp i know my image the last line doesn't look great taking a picture with my phone but on the screen its crisp... i've snapped another shot a little closer to see if it shows up properly with an iphone camera
> 
> also renaming the input to "PC" doesn't make any difference, i've even tested the same image at 30hz 4:4:4 and it looks the same as it does at 60hz still not sure what should be different...
> 
> 
> Thanks


That picture looks right for sure, you are definitely OK...


----------



## viper14

danbfree said:


> That picture looks right for sure, you are definitely OK...


ok sounds good it seems it was just how i took the previous picture the last line looked distorted but that was all in the iphone camera looked great on the tv, it seems renaming the input to PC makes no difference, i think as long as your using the proper HDMI port, i've tested this with HDMI1(labeled STB on the plastic) and UHD color on it flickers and blacks out every few seconds, only seems like HDMI2 (labeled HDMI\DVI on the plastic) works. so i guess at the end of the day i'm able to get 4k60 444 with a 40ft 22awg HDMI cable no issues what so ever on this cable.


----------



## danbfree

viper14 said:


> ok sounds good it seems it was just how i took the previous picture the last line looked distorted but that was all in the iphone camera looked great on the tv, it seems renaming the input to PC makes no difference, i think as long as your using the proper HDMI port, i've tested this with HDMI1(labeled STB on the plastic) and UHD color on it flickers and blacks out every few seconds, only seems like HDMI2 (labeled HDMI\DVI on the plastic) works. so i guess at the end of the day i'm able to get 4k60 444 with a 40ft 22awg HDMI cable no issues what so ever on this cable.


Good deal, it sound like only certain ports on your TV fully support UHD color at 4k60P... Whats funny is my $800 65" RCA does it no problem on all 4... crazy....


----------



## doctorwizz

The Fox test can show a false positive 444 with windows scaling or scaling with an image viewer. 
It is very important to set windows scaling to 100%. And make sure you image viewer is not magnifying the image. 
The *only *way to view 444 with the Samsung HU8550 without the SEK-3500 is to rename the input to PC. You lose a lot of color controls in that mode.


----------



## gdrmo

EngenZerO said:


> I just had 100 feet of Celerity DFO ran yesterday for my install. I was planning on just having a Key Digital x200proK balun in place but seeing HDbaseT is limited I made an executive decision to gamble on the fiber last minute for the k8500 that I will be getting in a few weeks. Fingers crossed it will work.


Has anyone tested the Celerity DFO yet?


----------



## EngenZerO

gdrmo said:


> Has anyone tested the Celerity DFO yet?


Not yet. It's ran and in my AV rack awaiting the K8500. My PC is a MBA and it doesn't output at that resolution.


----------



## gdrmo

Has anyone tested Monoprice Luxe Series CL2 active high speed HDMI cables at least 35' for ability to display 4K60? Have the Monoprice Cabernet CL2 Active High Speed which transmits 4K24, but not 4K60. The Luxe HDMI cable is what Monoprice recommended as a replacement.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CL2 is a fire rating and has nothing to do with the cable's abilities. The general consensus is that even with an active cable, at lengths over about 15', there are no guarantees. Some folks have luck and others don't. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is still a crap shoot right now until cable mfrs can get their act together and set some certification standards (which will include lengths).


----------



## akopperl

gdrmo said:


> Has anyone tested Monoprice Luxe Series CL2 active high speed HDMI cables at least 35' for ability to display 4K60? Have the Monoprice Cabernet CL2 Active High Speed which transmits 4K24, but not 4K60. The Luxe HDMI cable is what Monoprice recommended as a replacement.


The Luxe didn't work for me. It only worked up to 4K30. I believe the length was 20 ft. I replaced it with a shorter 15 ft. Blue Jeans Cable - FE Premium cable which worked fine in my installation. I also had luck with the 16 ft. PlugLug HD-1000 cable.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## gdrmo

akopperl said:


> The Luxe didn't work for me. It only worked up to 4K30. I believe the length was 20 ft. I replaced it with a shorter 15 ft. Blue Jeans Cable - FE Premium cable which worked fine in my installation. I also had luck with the 16 ft. PlugLug HD-1000 cable.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Thank you.


----------



## gdrmo

Otto Pylot said:


> CL2 is a fire rating and has nothing to do with the cable's abilities. The general consensus is that even with an active cable, at lengths over about 15', there are no guarantees. Some folks have luck and others don't. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is still a crap shoot right now until cable mfrs can get their act together and set some certification standards (which will include lengths).


Thanks for sharing.


----------



## akopperl

gdrmo said:


> Thank you.


The Blue Jeans Cable is probably the safer choice since for certain lengths it went through a certification process. 

The PlugLug is much cheaper so as long as you can return it, you can give it a shot. The trial and error part, is such a time consuming process. 

I had to have the Luxe removed from the wall and to do so had to have the installers come back and take down the TV, etc.

Good luck!

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## gdrmo

akopperl said:


> The Blue Jeans Cable is probably the safer choice since for certain lengths it went through a certification process.
> 
> The PlugLug is much cheaper so as long as you can return it, you can give it a shot. The trial and error part, is such a time consuming process.
> 
> I had to have the Luxe removed from the wall and to do so had to have the installers come back and take down the TV, etc.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Thanks for sharing. Probably going to wait for a certified cable given my 35' requirement.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gdrmo said:


> Thanks for sharing. Probably going to wait for a certified cable given my 35' requirement.


That could be a long wait  For now, trial and error.


----------



## viper14

i ordered 2 more of the same cable i allready have they arrived today and i tested and no issues at 4k60 4:4:4 same as my earlier results. this cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

viper14 said:


> i ordered 2 more of the same cable i allready have they arrived today and i tested and no issues at 4k60 4:4:4 same as my earlier results. this cable


Yes. You mentioned that back in post #382. I'm glad it works for you even though it is a passive Standard HDMI cable and not a passive High Speed HDMI cable. Just goes to show you how inconsistent the cable market is right now.


----------



## buju22

I just bought a 5' BJC for my K8500. Someone said that although it is certified, they had issues with it. However, the 6' cable worked better (which isn't certified)... go figure.


----------



## Otto Pylot

buju22 said:


> I just bought a 5' BJC for my K8500. Someone said that although it is certified, they had issues with it. However, the 6' cable worked better (which isn't certified)... go figure.


To quote myself, _Just goes to show you how inconsistent the cable market is right now_. Purchasing a cable with certification by an ATC is always a good idea but as you have seen it's certainly no guarantee, at least as far as the magical 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz.


----------



## gdrmo

viper14 said:


> i ordered 2 more of the same cable i allready have they arrived today and i tested and no issues at 4k60 4:4:4 same as my earlier results. this cable


What video source(s) are you using for 4K/60 4:4:4 and what components are in your chain?


----------



## Roudan

Hi

Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2

Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)

Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?


----------



## ppoulos

Roudan said:


> Hi
> 
> Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)
> 
> Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?


What we need is a reliable HDMI cable to carry the HDMI signal throughout its total length with a _consumer grade_ 600 MHz ([email protected], YCbCr 4:4:4-8 bit - 18Gbps) source (currently only the Nvidia Shield or Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD Player) *without loosing signal integrity.* Premium Certification for HDMI cables uses a computer generated signal, not consumer grade signal sources. The current certification is comparing _"apples to oranges"_. Good luck on finding a reliable HDMI cable all of the time!


----------



## doctorwizz

Uh Oh HDMI 2.1

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1457513362


----------



## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> Uh Oh HDMI 2.1
> 
> http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1457513362


Yeah, that has been rumored for some time ever since the HDMI 2.0a flash was released for HDR (or what ever was being considered as HDR at the time). As with all technologies, the "hook" to grab consumers to purchase equipment is quicker and pushed faster/harder before the connectivity and/or standardization is worked out. It's not only the cable, it's the HDMI chipsets that need to be on the "same page" as well. As I've said before, distance will be the critical factor.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Hi
> 
> Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)
> 
> Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?


You will be changing your cable within three years at the pace that the industry is going. Guaranteed. The only way to "future proof" is to use conduit for long lengths and install/use solid core CAT-6/7 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch) cable that you will have to actively terminate yourself. As soon as HDBT matures a bit more that will probably be the connection of choice for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, for now. The use of a conduit will make it easier to replace/upgrade your cable run. FO or DP will probably be the cable of choice for higher bandwidths and distances in the future.


----------



## gdrmo

Roudan said:


> Hi
> 
> Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)
> 
> Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?


I have the 35' version of the cable you are looking at. It will carry [email protected], YCbCr 4:4:4-10 bit, but not 4K/60 at that length in my setup.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> Roudan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)
> 
> Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?
> 
> 
> 
> You will be changing your cable within three years at the pace that the industry is going. Guaranteed. The only way to "future proof" is to use conduit for long lengths and install/use solid core CAT-6/7 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch) cable that you will have to actively terminate yourself. As soon as HDBT matures a bit more that will probably be the connection of choice for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, for now. The use of a conduit will make it easier to replace/upgrade your cable run. FO or DP will probably be the cable of choice for higher bandwidths and distances in the future.
Click to expand...

Thanks Otto. Sorry I am not familiar with cat6/7 cable . Do you have a link ? And how do I do with these cat6 cable with HDMI cable ? I do have conduit. What is FO, DP ?

Could you also say a little bit why monoprice cable on my original post does not work ? It is 18Gbps for 4K 60.

Thanks a lot.


----------



## Roudan

gdrmo said:


> Roudan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Is the below cable able to handle full 4K bandwidth in 3 years? I just want to make sure I don't need to upgrade again in few years. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12962&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Supports more High Speed HDMI features, including [email protected], to greater distances with superior performance over passive High Speed HDMI Cables (18Gbps vs 10.2Gbps)
> 
> Is 18Gbps big enough? Or we need 22Gbps?
> 
> 
> 
> I have the 35' version of the cable you are looking at. It will carry [email protected], YCbCr 4:4:4-10 bit, but not 4K/60 at that length in my setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks Gdrmo. Do you have a link for your cable ? And the cable I mentioned doesnot work ? I like to understand more. Thanks .


----------



## viper14

gdrmo said:


> What video source(s) are you using for 4K/60 4:4:4 and what components are in your chain?


i'm using a pc with a nvidia GTX980 connected directly to the tv on input #2 HDMI/DVI, tv is a a samsung 8550 series


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Thanks Otto. Sorry I am not familiar with cat6/7 cable . Do you have a link ? And how do I do with these cat6 cable with HDMI cable ? I do have conduit. What is FO, DP ?
> 
> Could you also say a little bit why monoprice cable on my original post does not work ? It is 18Gbps for 4K 60.
> 
> Thanks a lot.


FO = Fiber Optic and DP = Display Port

The Cabernet Series are nice cables that are rated for in-wall use (CL2). They are rated up to 18Gbps but I don't see where they are Certified at 18Gbps, which is a big difference. Most cables, so far, are not certified (by an ATC) for 18Gbps at a given length. Even then, that is no guarantee that it will consistently deliver at over 15' (which seems to be the distance where some start having issues). Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try.

CAT-6 ethernet patch cable is what you commonly use to connect routers etc with. CAT-6/7 solid core cable has the same 4-pair wiring scheme but the individual copper wires are solid (hence the name solid core) and are not CCS (Copper Covered Steel). CAT-6 is 24AWG, 450MHz. CAT-7 is 23AWG, 1000MHz. The cables are not terminated so you need to terminate them yourself with something like HDBT (which hopefully is being updated to handle the higher video demands that everything thinks they need right now).


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> FO = Fiber Optic and DP = Display Port
> 
> The Cabernet Series are nice cables that are rated for in-wall use (CL2). They are rated up to 18Gbps but I don't see where they are Certified at 18Gbps, which is a big difference. Most cables, so far, are not certified (by an ATC) for 18Gbps at a given length. Even then, that is no guarantee that it will consistently deliver at over 15' (which seems to be the distance where some start having issues). Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try.
> 
> CAT-6 ethernet patch cable is what you commonly use to connect routers etc with. CAT-6/7 solid core cable has the same 4-pair wiring scheme but the individual copper wires are solid (hence the name solid core) and are not CCS (Copper Covered Steel). CAT-6 is 24AWG, 450MHz. CAT-7 is 23AWG, 1000MHz. The cables are not terminated so you need to terminate them yourself with something like HDBT (which hopefully is being updated to handle the higher video demands that everything thinks they need right now).


Thanks Otto Pylot.


----------



## gdrmo

Roudan said:


> Thanks Gdrmo. Do you have a link for your cable ? And the cable I mentioned doesnot work ? I like to understand more. Thanks .


Here is the link: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12736

I simply get a blue "no video" screen when I try to play 4K/60 content. My chain is the K8500-Denon 2200-JVC RS400. I tried using a 3 foot Monoprice cable and I was able to get 4K/60 content to display, so it has to be the length of the cable as many others have reported issues.


----------



## Roudan

gdrmo said:


> Here is the link: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12736
> 
> I simply get a blue "no video" screen when I try to play 4K/60 content. My chain is the K8500-Denon 2200-JVC RS400. I tried using a 3 foot Monoprice cable and I was able to get 4K/60 content to display, so it has to be the length of the cable as many others have reported issues.


Thanks gdrmo. But I remembered you said in your previous post it worked for [email protected] Is that right? what is 4K/60? frame rate 60? Thanks.


----------



## gdrmo

Roudan said:


> Thanks gdrmo. But I remembered you said in your previous post it worked for [email protected] Is that right? what is 4K/60? frame rate 60? Thanks.


60 refers to the frame rate which content is available on YouTube. I have only been able to display 4K/60 using the short cable I referred to above. No luck with that using the 35" foot.


----------



## Roudan

Anyone tried this ? 50ft. Does it work? The review is quite good. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00SE...ACC0VK5JFE1W0Y6P#immersive-view_1458005462789


----------



## Otto Pylot

*"Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cable"*

Any cable mfr that advertises their cable as an HDMI 2.0 is suspicious, being as there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable, at least according to HDMI Licensing. The specs given are HDMI 2.0a hardware specs, which according to HDMI Licensing can be handled by High Speed HDMI cables. The problem is distance and 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, and while Fusion4k's "HDMI Eye Test" looks impressive at "confirming" data transfer at 18Gbps, there's no mention that it works at 50' nor if the "HDMI Eye Test" is an HDMI Licensing approved testing methodology. $120 for a 50' passive cable is pretty expensive. Fusion4K is an online retailer so who knows who actually mfrs their cables. It's Amazon, and they have a pretty good return policy, so all you can do is purchase the cable and see how it works. Read the return policy carefully and if they don't work, send them back. The cables are probably a very thick gauge wire which will certainly help with the data transfer but you'll lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI inputs.


----------



## ramcharger1979

Just switched my entire setup to blue jean certified cables and I could not be happier. 

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> *"Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cable"*
> 
> Any cable mfr that advertises their cable as an HDMI 2.0 is suspicious, being as there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable, at least according to HDMI Licensing. The specs given are HDMI 2.0a hardware specs, which according to HDMI Licensing can be handled by High Speed HDMI cables. The problem is distance and 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, and while Fusion4k's "HDMI Eye Test" looks impressive at "confirming" data transfer at 18Gbps, there's no mention that it works at 50' nor if the "HDMI Eye Test" is an HDMI Licensing approved testing methodology. $120 for a 50' passive cable is pretty expensive. Fusion4K is an online retailer so who knows who actually mfrs their cables. It's Amazon, and they have a pretty good return policy, so all you can do is purchase the cable and see how it works. Read the return policy carefully and if they don't work, send them back. The cables are probably a very thick gauge wire which will certainly help with the data transfer but you'll lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI inputs.


Thanks Otto. Is 60Hz the same as 60fps?


----------



## Otto Pylot

ramcharger1979 said:


> Just switched my entire setup to blue jean certified cables and I could not be happier.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


BJC seems to be the only reliable game in town right now. At least the reports on their cables are consistently favorable. They are who I would recommend at this time.


----------



## doctorwizz

Here is what HDFury says about HDMI cables on the HDFury Integral thread here yesterday

"Now about the cable issue at 600MHz, we don't believe in "certified" mark as often it means either "nothing" or just that it was tested on computer.
the high end graphics cards shooting 4K60 4:4:4 signal have a very high signal integrity and no problem with many cables.
However when you use Shield or K8500 (from earlier report it seems tricky too) many of the working cables from a PC will fail. 
It's a nightmare for many until you got good cables and then you forget about it 
We are still waiting for a good brand to recommend."


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ a lawsuit was also filed by Warner Bros. against HDFury (LegendSky) in January because of the "stripping" of HDCP 2.2 back to 1.1 so that 4k material could be copied. Interesting times.


----------



## doctorwizz

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^ a lawsuit was also filed by Warner Bros. against HDFury (LegendSky) in January because of the "stripping" of HDCP 2.2 back to 1.1 so that 4k material could be copied. Interesting times.


Yep, I know. I have one just to play with. I don't really need it. It is a very high quality device with a lot of functions.


----------



## gitongisip

EngenZerO said:


> I just had 100 feet of Celerity DFO ran yesterday for my install. I was planning on just having a Key Digital x200proK balun in place but seeing HDbaseT is limited I made an executive decision to gamble on the fiber last minute for the k8500 that I will be getting in a few weeks. Fingers crossed it will work.


How did the celerity fiber optic HDMI cable perform? I ordered a 40 footer today and expecting them to arrive by the end of the week. Hooking up directly from sammy UHD player to a RS400. Hopefully it's worth the money instead of guessing which cable would work.


----------



## EngenZerO

gitongisip said:


> How did the celerity fiber optic HDMI cable perform? I ordered a 40 footer today and expecting them to arrive by the end of the week. Hooking up directly from sammy UHD player to a RS400. Hopefully it's worth the money instead of guessing which cable would work.


I couldn't tell you at [email protected] and 4:4:4. I don't have computer or a UHD player yet that can push that signal. I've been waiting to get my hands on a k8500. Soon I hope when they become more available.


----------



## ppoulos

*My testing for [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4 8 bit (600Mhz) signal*

I have finally found a set of HDMI cables that works with a Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player as a source for a [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit (600 Mhz signal) without loosing signal integrity (shown by screen flickering or blackout, and by using an HDfury Integral to verify loss of signal integrity). I have tried the following cables, all with loss of signal integrity...

1. Blue Rigger 15 foot High Speed Cable - I noticed the drop outs immediately and thought originally that the Samsung player was defective - then I realized it was the cable.

2. Monster Cable Black Premium 12 foot - it lasted 1 minute with a stable picture. But when I reconnected it directly to the Samsung player something in the “electronics" went (the cable can show the signal speed itself) and the cable stopped functioning completely.

3. BJE Series-FE High Speed Premium Cables (3 foot and 12 foot) - The 12 foot cable supposedly passed the “Premium HDMI Certification” but apparently only for Computer Sources for the 600 Mhz signal, not consumer grade sources like the Samsung player. Both cable sizes showed loss of signal integrity.

4. KableDirect 15 foot Pro Series HDMI cable - failed also, but _slightly_ less noticeable than the other cables.

5. PlugLug HD-1000 series High Speed cable, 16 foot - this cable had the least drop outs so far of any of the cables, but still had occasional loss of signal integrity.

6. Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cables, both 15 foot and 3 foot lengths, failed to pass a 600 Mhz signal without loosing signal integrity and was immediately noticeable.

7. Ultra Clarity flat HDMI Cable 2.0 High Speed Flexible Cord (1.5 Ft Cable length) also failed immediately to carry the signal from the Samsung player without loosing integrity.

But the _surprising winner of this contest_, the only HDMI cable to pass a 600 mHz signal from a Samsung K8500 UHD player to my LG OLED display without loosing signal integrity was *Rocketfish In-Wall HDMI 18 Gbs Ultra HD Cables*. I tested the 12 foot, 4 foot, and 1.5 foot cables, and I have seen no loss of signal integrity so far using a [email protected], YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit (600 Mhz) source from a Samsung K8500 UHD player.


----------



## howieshel

Hi, has anyone tried the celerity fiber optic HDMI cable with the plugin HDMI ends with the USB male? How did they work at the 4K/60 444 600MHz? How did you hook up the USB ends and do you really need to plug those into a power source?? I thought i read somewhere that sometimes the usb plugs are not needed. Easy to do on a TV there are several USB females but my JVC rs500 projector doesn't have one.


----------



## gitongisip

howieshel said:


> Hi, has anyone tried the celerity fiber optic HDMI cable with the plugin HDMI ends with the USB male? How did they work at the 4K/60 444 600MHz? How did you hook up the USB ends and do you really need to plug those into a power source?? I thought i read somewhere that sometimes the usb plugs are not needed. Easy to do on a TV there are several USB females but my JVC rs500 projector doesn't have one.


You can use any phone charger plug; example iphone or iPad


----------



## howieshel

Thanks, got them ordered.


----------



## Darian97

Maybe this will help some people dealing with HDMI issues. I have used Key Digital products for years. I talked with their tech support department directly. They guarantee the support of ALL the new HDMI specs with their new HIFI series cables up to 20'. This includes the KD-HIFI3, KD-HIFI6, KD-HIFI9, KD-HIFI12X, KD-HIFI16X, and KD-HIFI20X when the source is connected directly to the display. The 16' and 20' cable may have issues if you run it through an AVR. I am currently using the KD-HIFI20X directly from my K8500 to my UN78JS9500 with zero issues. I have it running across the floor for now. My equipment and display are not in the same location. I desperately need a 30' cable in order to run it through my attic so i decided to give the KD-HIFI30PROK a shot. Unfortunately, it did not keep the signal consistently which is what I was told would happen. The signal drops out about every 30 seconds. Maybe a firmware update on my display will help and the 30' cable may work. Fingers crossed. Has anyone used a 30-35' cable that works?


----------



## Coreyavs

Celerity cable did not work for me with a Nvidia Shield + 4K JVC current gen middle one. Returned it and just put the Shield on a 1080p dumb tv for now. Roku works, but occasionally it gets a jerky image, but switching the Marantz to another port and back again fixes it.

Stuck really waiting on the [email protected] 4:4:4 Baluns to come out. I have a 10m run.


----------



## Darian97

Coreyavs said:


> Stuck really waiting on the [email protected] 4:4:4 Baluns to come out. I have a 10m run.


I think the new Key Digital baluns should work for you. KD-x200prok or the KD-x411prok


----------



## rhodesj

Both of those list this as their limit for 4K: 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4/8 Bit or 60Hz at 4:2:0/8 Bit


----------



## DLCPhoto

*Monoprice SlimRun AV Fiber Optic HDMI Cable*

I'm in the planning stages for a Home Theater setup, which will use the Marantz AV7702MkII pre/pro, and JVC DLA-RS400U, so I'm wanting full 4K compatibility and cabling. Reading on finding something to effectively carry the 18gbps, and for me at about 60 feet to get it to the projector, is discouraging.

I just came across these Monoprice SlimRun AV cables, runs starting at 75 feet. Fiber-optic. They claims full 4K/60Hz capability, although they don't specify the magic number of 18gbps (they don't give a number). Here's a link:

Monoprice SlimRun AV Cable (75')

Cost is $130, which is consistent with Monoprice's cost-effectiveness.

But not if they don't work!

Has anybody tried/tested these?


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> I have finally found a set of HDMI cables that works with a Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player as a source for a [email protected] YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit (600 Mhz signal) without loosing signal integrity (shown by screen flickering or blackout, and by using an HDfury Integral to verify loss of signal integrity). I have tried the following cables, all with loss of signal integrity...
> 
> 1. Blue Rigger 15 foot High Speed Cable - I noticed the drop outs immediately and thought originally that the Samsung player was defective - then I realized it was the cable.
> 
> 2. Monster Cable Black Premium 12 foot - it lasted 1 minute with a stable picture. But when I reconnected it directly to the Samsung player something in the “electronics" went (the cable can show the signal speed itself) and the cable stopped functioning completely.
> 
> 3. BJE Series-FE High Speed Premium Cables (3 foot and 12 foot) - The 12 foot cable supposedly passed the “Premium HDMI Certification” but apparently only for Computer Sources for the 600 Mhz signal, not consumer grade sources like the Samsung player. Both cable sizes showed loss of signal integrity.
> 
> 4. KableDirect 15 foot Pro Series HDMI cable - failed also, but _slightly_ less noticeable than the other cables.
> 
> 5. PlugLug HD-1000 series High Speed cable, 16 foot - this cable had the least drop outs so far of any of the cables, but still had occasional loss of signal integrity.
> 
> 6. Fusion4K High Speed 4K HDMI 2.0 cables, both 15 foot and 3 foot lengths, failed to pass a 600 Mhz signal without loosing signal integrity and was immediately noticeable.
> 
> 7. Ultra Clarity flat HDMI Cable 2.0 High Speed Flexible Cord (1.5 Ft Cable length) also failed immediately to carry the signal from the Samsung player without loosing integrity.
> 
> But the _surprising winner of this contest_, the only HDMI cable to pass a 600 mHz signal from a Samsung K8500 UHD player to my LG OLED display without loosing signal integrity was *Rocketfish In-Wall HDMI 18 Gbs Ultra HD Cables*. I tested the 12 foot, 4 foot, and 1.5 foot cables, and I have seen no loss of signal integrity so far using a [email protected], YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit (600 Mhz) source from a Samsung K8500 UHD player.


Great stuff, nice to see some high-end results... Interesting how the nVidia GTX 9xx cards seem to "drive" the signal better. I'm curious if you are willing to try this "low-end" cable http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JZCSPWO
At the time, I paid $19.99 for a 25ft and it works better at full 4k60p 4:4:4 chroma signal than any other I tried and the 25ft is now down to a shockingly low $12.29 with shorter lengths even less. I wonder if a 16ft (or less) would work well with your UHD Blu Ray player?


----------



## rhodesj

I've had a pair of those Pluglug cables installed for about a month now. I do get occasional dropouts in signal with this cable. I have two that I ran in wall, and the result is the same from both. I get very brief dropouts in signal, lasting not more than a second or so, at a rate of once every couple hours of viewing. Thus I'd describe it as tolerable until I can get a proper cable that will work flawlessly. I've concluded that my in-wall run can be handled with 20' cables, so I'll probably end up going the route of BJC for the sake of being done with cables.


----------



## danbfree

rhodesj said:


> I've had a pair of those Pluglug cables installed for about a month now. I do get occasional dropouts in signal with this cable. I have two that I ran in wall, and the result is the same from both. I get very brief dropouts in signal, lasting not more than a second or so, at a rate of once every couple hours of viewing. Thus I'd describe it as tolerable until I can get a proper cable that will work flawlessly. I've concluded that my in-wall run can be handled with 20' cables, so I'll probably end up going the route of BJC for the sake of being done with cables.


At 25'? I get ZERO issues from a GTX 950 with a 25' PlugLug at full 18Gbps connection to a cheap TV (which somehow, yes, does do 4:4:4 chroma at 4k60p)... I'm just bitter the price dropped more, hehe... Anyway, that's why I'm so curious about shorter lengths too, it seems to be the 20-25' range we see issues pop up. But with shorter the better, I'm sure a 20' PlugLug would be fine if they made them, but next step down is 16' in those... Honestly, the more research and experimenting I've done the more it points to wire gauge as the biggest factor in using a passive cable at length. If you could find another decent quality cable in 20' length and 26AWG like the PlugLug, I'm pretty sure you'd be fine.

Edit: Just for comparison purposes, a 1 second dropout maybe every couple of hours is what I got with a 20' KabelDirekt. For me the even longer 25' PlugLug works perfectly.


----------



## danbfree

Darian97 said:


> Maybe this will help some people dealing with HDMI issues. I have used Key Digital products for years. I talked with their tech support department directly. They guarantee the support of ALL the new HDMI specs with their new HIFI series cables up to 20'. This includes the KD-HIFI3, KD-HIFI6, KD-HIFI9, KD-HIFI12X, KD-HIFI16X, and KD-HIFI20X when the source is connected directly to the display. The 16' and 20' cable may have issues if you run it through an AVR. I am currently using the KD-HIFI20X directly from my K8500 to my UN78JS9500 with zero issues. I have it running across the floor for now. My equipment and display are not in the same location. I desperately need a 30' cable in order to run it through my attic so i decided to give the KD-HIFI30PROK a shot. Unfortunately, it did not keep the signal consistently which is what I was told would happen. The signal drops out about every 30 seconds. Maybe a firmware update on my display will help and the 30' cable may work. Fingers crossed. Has anyone used a 30-35' cable that works?


Not to denigrate all of you guys here using high-end equipment and working with high-end cable companies to find a solution, but honestly it looks like for now it simply boils down to using a thicker gauge wire for longer runs passively... assuming it's a decent overall quality cable, of course. BJC has 24awg import cables for pretty cheap, all ratings and certifications aside, I'd love to try a 35' one of those just for the fun of it. I wouldn't expect Kurt to try this on his own to let us know how it works, he has "Premium" cables to worry about. I'm just saying it would be an interesting experiment to try. Of course, better shielding and using more silver instead of tinned copper as a conductor would help too, but thicker gauge is looking like a cheaper "brute force" method of delivering 18Gbps successfully. If the 25' I use is simply a decent made, genuine 26awg cable, I bet a decent quality 24awg could possibly work up to 35' successfully, depending on source signal drive strength.


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> 3. BJE Series-FE High Speed Premium Cables (3 foot and 12 foot) - The 12 foot cable supposedly passed the “Premium HDMI Certification” but apparently only for Computer Sources for the 600 Mhz signal, not consumer grade sources like the Samsung player. Both cable sizes showed loss of signal integrity.


Just to add to my theory, these are only 28awg... Their Series-1, although not "Premium" rated, are 23.5awg and available as short as 4ft, I'm VERY curious how they perform... They also have 24 and 22awg import cables as well... If I had a 30'+/10m run like some of you, I'd try the Series-1 first if you are willing to spend some decent money on a cable at $120 for a 35' Series-1. If you want to go cheap and don't mind a super thick cable you could try the import 22awg.


----------



## ppoulos

danbfree said:


> Great stuff, nice to see some high-end results... Interesting how the nVidia GTX 9xx cards seem to "drive" the signal better. I'm curious if you are willing to try this "low-end" cable http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JZCSPWO
> At the time, I paid $19.99 for a 25ft and it works better at full 4k60p 4:4:4 chroma signal than any other I tried and the 25ft is now down to a shockingly low $12.29 with shorter lengths even less. I wonder if a 16ft (or less) would work well with your UHD Blu Ray player?


You are referring to *the PlugLug HD-1000 series High Speed cable* - that is the 5th cable that I listed above, and even though it was better than others, it also failed, loosing signal integrity about once every 1 to 2 minutes, or less often, but clearly visible. I tested out the 16 foot version.


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> You are referring to *the PlugLug HD-1000 series High Speed cable* - that is the 5th cable that I listed above, and even though it was better than others, it also failed, loosing signal integrity about once every 1 to 2 minutes, or less often, but clearly visible. I tested out the 16 foot version.


EDIT 2: Actually, this is the model I was referring to, not the HD-1000: http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO It is a newer model than the HD-1000 that they claim "fastets version".


----------



## Otto Pylot

Been gone for awhile so I haven't kept up with the on-going saga. I have to admire you folks for continuing to look for the "perfect" cable for that 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz signal over about 15'. It's expensive but has anyone tried a fiber optic cable? I may have missed that in a previous post.


----------



## doctorwizz

These cables will do 108Gbps, 8K 120fps


----------



## ppoulos

danbfree said:


> I COMPLETELY missed that, thank you... Interesting to see how the drive signal must vary so much from a $125 video card to a $400 UHD Blu Ray player, that must be frustrating!
> 
> Edit: What about a BJC Series 1? I know Kurt focused on certifying the Series-FE as Premium, but I'm pretty sure the Series-1 will perform better being a thicker gauge.


Based on what I just read these cables probably would work. However BJE is advertising the series 1 HDMI cables *completely wrong*! The series-1 cables are currently recommended mainly for long distance runs, though they also come in much shorter distances. And even though they are ATC Category 1 and 2 verified, the high speed certification (ATC Category 2) does not take into account newer high speed sources (eg. - 600MHz) like the Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player, the Nvidia Shield, and the soon to be released Panasonic UB900 UHD player. By trying to push their FE-Series as "premium Certified" for [email protected] sources has left many of us distrusting their whole line of cables. They should concentrate on testing their high gauge Series 1 cables using 600Mhz Consumer Grade sources, rather than push their inferior grade cables!


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> Based on what I just read these cables probably would work. However BJE is advertising the series 1 HDMI cables *completely wrong*! The series-1 cables are currently recommended mainly for long distance runs, though they also come in much shorter distances. And even though they are ATC Category 1 and 2 verified, the high speed certification (ATC Category 2) does not take into account newer high speed sources (eg. - 600MHz) like the Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player, the Nvidia Shield, and the soon to be released Panasonic UB900 UHD player. By trying to push their FE-Series as "premium Certified" for [email protected] sources has left many of us distrusting their whole line of cables. They should concentrate on testing their high gauge Series 1 cables using 600Mhz Consumer Grade sources, rather than push their inferior grade cables!


Exactly! Seems like they (Kurt) wanted to have their nice and thin regular gauge Series FE cables to have the Premium certification first while the Series 1 is their product actually more likely to deliver. he probably didn't want to have his products branded as needing the thick gauge just to pass. It would be great if he could have those certified as well, especially those of you with the new Samsung UHD player and are actually having some issues with the Series FE... Now, as far as the Shield, does it even support the need for an 18gbps signal? I thought it displayed 4k60p at 4:2:0, like the Roku 4 also? I ask as I have both those devices and my GTX 950 card, but only the need for the long cable with the video card. I have no problems using decent 6' high speed cables with those 2 streaming devices at 4k60p.


----------



## ppoulos

danbfree said:


> Exactly! Seems like they (Kurt) wanted to have their nice and thin regular gauge Series FE cables to have the Premium certification first while the Series 1 is their product actually more likely to deliver. he probably didn't want to have his products branded as needing the thick gauge just to pass. It would be great if he could have those certified as well, especially those of you with the new Samsung UHD player and are actually having some issues with the Series FE... Now, as far as the Shield, does it even support the need for an 18gbps signal? I thought it displayed 4k60p at 4:2:0, like the Roku 4 also? I ask as I have both those devices and my GTX 950 card, but only the need for the long cable with the video card. I have no problems using decent 6' high speed cables with those 2 streaming devices at 4k60p.


I don't own a Nvidia Shield, but apparently it is supposed to also be able to display [email protected] YCbCR 4:4:4-8 bit (600Mhz), especially in their gaming mode. In fact the people at HDFury who make the Integral actually use the Nvidia Shield as their test consumer device since its HDMI video output is more finicky than the output from the Samsung UHD Player.


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> I don't own a Nvidia Shield, but apparently it is supposed to also be able to display [email protected] YCbCR 4:4:4-8 bit (600Mhz), especially in their gaming mode. In fact the people at HDFury who make the Integral actually use the Nvidia Shield as their test consumer device since its HDMI video output is more finicky than the output from the Samsung UHD Player.


Thanks for the info, I'll have to take mine back down to the 4k TV and see what settings are available


----------



## BigScreen

ppoulos said:


> Based on what I just read these cables probably would work. However BJE is advertising the series 1 HDMI cables *completely wrong*! The series-1 cables are currently recommended mainly for long distance runs, though they also come in much shorter distances. And even though they are ATC Category 1 and 2 verified, the high speed certification (ATC Category 2) does not take into account newer high speed sources (eg. - 600MHz) like the Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player, the Nvidia Shield, and the soon to be released Panasonic UB900 UHD player. By trying to push their FE-Series as "premium Certified" for [email protected] sources has left many of us distrusting their whole line of cables. They should concentrate on testing their high gauge Series 1 cables using 600Mhz Consumer Grade sources, rather than push their inferior grade cables!


It's quite possible that you're jumping to the wrong conclusion. I am not affiliated with BJC, but I have purchased their HDMI cables twice now. One many years ago when getting a good 35' HDMI cable was difficult, and that cable (while expensive) did the job and I never had any issues with it. Most recently, I picked up a 12' cable that worked when several others did not (see my previous messages with test results).

That 12' cable was half the price of the normal price of the only other cable that worked, which was a super-stiff Rocketfish cable from Best Buy. Two other (cheaper) cables that advertised 18 Gbps couldn't do the job, and that was with a PC video card driving it, so if a consumer device is even more susceptible to low quality signals, that doesn't bode well for the chances of those cables having worked any better.

If it's anything like other certifications, like UL and CA, the certification process takes time and money. My guess is that BJC had to choose which cables to get certified first, and they likely went with their best-selling series. If you're going to pay for certification, you do it on the product that will get you the biggest return on your investment. I don't know if one series outsells the other, but that could explain why they went that route.

Instead of looking for a conspiracy or some other nefarious motive, how about appreciating that this is a company that is being pretty straightforward about what it sells and how it operates? They are one of a few companies who have certified cables at all.

In the grand scheme of things, paying $40 for a decent quality cable that does its job without any trouble at all is not too high a price to pay. I tried two different low-priced cables and spent a lot of time finding out that they weren't up to the job. If there are people out there willing to take a chance on $15 cables in the hopes that they will get something to work, more power to them. 

I encourage everyone to post their results, with model numbers, cable lengths, source and display setups, and links to the relevant product information, so that this thread can be a resource for everyone that is trying to find a cable that works in their situation. What will work for one display/source device may not work for another, so the more information gathered, the better!


----------



## danbfree

BigScreen said:


> It's quite possible that you're jumping to the wrong conclusion. I am not affiliated with BJC, but I have purchased their HDMI cables twice now. One many years ago when getting a good 35' HDMI cable was difficult, and that cable (while expensive) did the job and I never had any issues with it. Most recently, I picked up a 12' cable that worked when several others did not (see my previous messages with test results).
> 
> That 12' cable was half the price of the normal price of the only other cable that worked, which was a super-stiff Rocketfish cable from Best Buy. Two other (cheaper) cables that advertised 18 Gbps couldn't do the job, and that was with a PC video card driving it, so if a consumer device is even more susceptible to low quality signals, that doesn't bode well for the chances of those cables having worked any better.
> 
> If it's anything like other certifications, like UL and CA, the certification process takes time and money. My guess is that BJC had to choose which cables to get certified first, and they likely went with their best-selling series. If you're going to pay for certification, you do it on the product that will get you the biggest return on your investment. I don't know if one series outsells the other, but that could explain why they went that route.
> 
> Instead of looking for a conspiracy or some other nefarious motive, how about appreciating that this is a company that is being pretty straightforward about what it sells and how it operates? They are one of a few companies who have certified cables at all.
> 
> In the grand scheme of things, paying $40 for a decent quality cable that does its job without any trouble at all is not too high a price to pay. I tried two different low-priced cables and spent a lot of time finding out that they weren't up to the job. If there are people out there willing to take a chance on $15 cables in the hopes that they will get something to work, more power to them.
> 
> I encourage everyone to post their results, with model numbers, cable lengths, source and display setups, and links to the relevant product information, so that this thread can be a resource for everyone that is trying to find a cable that works in their situation. What will work for one display/source device may not work for another, so the more information gathered, the better!


I appreciate and understand what you're saying, I LOVE how open Kurt is in helping to explain things, etc... The point is that it's just looking like thicker gauge cables are the ones able to deliver 18gbps passively the best, especially over length. So that just brings up the theory and further discussion on why the thicker gauge isn't being promoted/marketed more transparently as a possible obvious solution, it hasn't been openly discussed before.

This thread has grown and grown, all because there hasn't been a whole lot of good info out out there, so us home theater enthusiasts are forced to discuss, theorize and experiment among ourselves for some solutions. For example, if I had to buy a 25' right now that I knew would work the best, I'd go with a BJC Series 1... BUT, that's not the impression you get when you see the Series FE is the one "Premium" certified despite it being a thinner gauge. We had to have an open discussion and share our results with each other to come to that.

But you are right, companies need to choose where to spend the money on certifications, I alluded to that myself and i didn't mean to sound accusational, just theorize after some the frustration there is out there.


----------



## Darian97

Hey @danbfree. You were correct regarding the BJC Series 1 HDMI cable. That's the only cable that they offer that will work with all the current resolutions in the longer lengths such as 20' or 25'. I called them to verify. They did their own testing and anything over 25' did not work reliably. Guess I'll keep my current cable running across my floor until someone comes out with something in the 30-35' length.


----------



## danbfree

Darian97 said:


> Hey @danbfree. You were correct regarding the BJC Series 1 HDMI cable. That's the only cable that they offer that will work with all the current resolutions in the longer lengths such as 20' or 25'. I called them to verify. They did their own testing and anything over 25' did not work reliably. Guess I'll keep my current cable running across my floor until someone comes out with something in the 30-35' length.


Thanks for the update... Funny how a 23.5awg high quality Series 1 cable does no better than the $12.29 26awg one I got. But the source drive strength could have something to do with that too, it may be my video card sends a stronger signal compared to a console or disc player as has been discussed... a 30ft could possibly work, they just can't guarantee it would be reliable. I give credit to them for being honest when you asked them, in general many places recommend an active solution past 25ft for any resolution, so that makes sense.

And yes, if a 35ft cable worked reliably I'd do some cable management running it along the walls and ceilings as well. I'm just happy to have a 25ft that works well and is covered with a rug at the point it runs across the carpet where there is foot traffic.


----------



## EngenZerO

Celerity DFO seems to be working with my quick test. Fired up instantly with no handshaking issues. Will test in depth later tonight.

TV: Samsung JS9500
AVR: Integra 50.7
Player: Samsung K8500

I have the 100 ft of DFO ran to HDMI 2 of the OCB of the JS9500 with UHD color enabled for HDMI 2. I have both the TX and RX ends being powered by spare Apple iPhone USB chargers. The DFO is ran straight to the HDMI 1 of the K8500. I have the audio being ran to my Integra via HDMI 2 of the K8500. My AVR is suppose to support 4K HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a pass through but I haven't tested that. 

I have 4:4:4 and Deep Color set to Auto on the K8500. Also again TV HDMI 2 is set to UHD on.

No handshaking issues. Player menus show 3840x2160p/60p. When I fired up The Martian the TV switched to 3840x2160p/24 and enabled HDR (Contrast/Backlight switched automatically switched). Watched only a min or 2 then turned it off so I can watch it later tonight or tomorrow. Will provide report later after watching the movie to ensure no hiccups.

Quick photo before I enabled Deep Color to Auto. Pardon the blue tape on the wall... our painter is coming in the few weeks to touch up our walls.


----------



## EngenZerO

Just a quick update before people start ordering this cable.

The Celerity appears to be very finicky. 

I was getting all the wires organized in my AV rack and used a SnapAV extension cord to extend my Apple USB Charger to power the transmitter side and it started to cause the signal issues. The tv would flicker on/off. I then unplugged everything for a few minutes and then replugged everything back in and allowed it to resync with the TV sans the extension cord. Appears to be back to normal. Did not have a chance to watch a full UHD movie last night. Will report back again soon.


----------



## fizban11

EngenZerO said:


> Just a quick update before people start ordering this cable.
> 
> The Celerity appears to be very finicky.


Let us know for sure, I was looking at the Celerity DFO but am unwilling to spend the money without a 2.0a spec certification. Regarding the flickering, you don't happen to have a headphone system for this set-up? I had the same issue that would occasionally rear its head and it turned out it was the headphone base not liking the power plug port. Even if I wasn't even using the headphones and even though the headphone base is only for audio using the Zone2 HDMI out from the Pre-Pro. Once I switched it to a port it liked, there has been no further issue. 



danbfree said:


> Thanks for the update... Funny how a 23.5awg high quality Series 1 cable does no better than the $12.29 26awg one I got. But the source drive strength could have something to do with that too, it may be my video card sends a stronger signal compared to a console or disc player as has been discussed... a 30ft could possibly work, they just can't guarantee it would be reliable. I give credit to them for being honest when you asked them, in general many places recommend an active solution past 25ft for any resolution, so that makes sense.
> 
> And yes, if a 35ft cable worked reliably I'd do some cable management running it along the walls and ceilings as well. I'm just happy to have a 25ft that works well and is covered with a rug at the point it runs across the carpet where there is foot traffic.


I agree and thanks for all you contribute. MyCableMart got in some new cables in the HDMI Elite line that are thicker gauge 26AWG for 25-35ft lengths and 24AWG for 40ft. I tried a 30 and 35ft 26AWG, but they didn't work for me. [email protected] wasn't an issue, but the 60Hz signal wouldn't pass. The president of MCM told me that they have been warned by HDMI.org that running directly to the monitor from the source is the testing requirement and that if I use an AVR or Pre-Pro, then it is the equivalent of adding an additional 6-8ft of cable due to having added resistance of 4 connection points rather than 2. He also said that they were working on a Fiber/Copper hybrid cable that they hope to market, but no timetable was given. I don't know about anyone else, but bypassing an AVR is a deal-killer for me. HDMI-CEC to use an audio return channel NEVER, EVER works good for me.

The thicker gauge cable would work, but a power cycle of the TV or the Pre-Pro would cause it to fail and revert to 1080p.


----------



## EngenZerO

fizban11 said:


> Let us know for sure, I was looking at the Celerity DFO but am unwilling to spend the money without a 2.0a spec certification. Regarding the flickering, you don't happen to have a headphone system for this set-up? I had the same issue that would occasionally rear its head and it turned out it was the headphone base not liking the power plug port. Even if I wasn't even using the headphones and even though the headphone base is only for audio using the Zone2 HDMI out from the Pre-Pro. Once I switched it to a port it liked, there has been no further issue.
> 
> ...


So far the cable has been solid once I removed the SnapAV extension cable. No flickering. 

I've changed my K8500 to output at Auto vs 4:4:4 as it gave me issues handshaking with the TV and Blu-ray player when booted from a cold start using my Harmony Elite. I have no problems leaving 4:4:4 enabled as long as the TV was previously on and switching from HDMI inputs. I also have been keeping an eye on the K8500 thread and some people switched to Auto instead of 4:4:4. 

With Auto on the K8500 has zero issues with handshaking with the TV (from cold start and when switching inputs) and still triggers 3840x2160 60p menus from cold start and when an UHD movie runs it automatically switches my JS9500 to HDR and plays the movie without hiccup on 3840x2160 24p. 

Overall I'm pretty happy. Sucks that I don't get my Integra volume overlay's as I am bypassing the AVR. No matter what though if anyone plans on ordering this cable make sure you order it somewhere that has a good return policy.

EDIT:

Added settings

K8500:
HDMI Color Format: Auto
Deep Color: Off (K8500 thread suggested this)

JS9500 
UHD Color: On for HDMI2


----------



## gdrmo

EngenZerO said:


> Just a quick update before people start ordering this cable.
> 
> The Celerity appears to be very finicky.
> 
> I was getting all the wires organized in my AV rack and used a SnapAV extension cord to extend my Apple USB Charger to power the receiver side and it started to cause the signal issues. The tv would flicker on/off. I then unplugged everything for a few minutes and then replugged everything back in and allowed it to resync with the TV sans the extension cord. Appears to be back to normal. Did not have a chance to watch a full UHD movie last night. Will report back again soon.


I would need to use an extension cord to extend my USB Charger to power the receiver side. I have a plug mounted Monster surge protector for the AC outlet. Is it possible that a device of this type might eliminate the signal issues as you experienced?


----------



## EngenZerO

gdrmo said:


> I would need to use an extension cord to extend my USB Charger to power the receiver side. I have a plug mounted Monster surge protector for the AC outlet. Is it possible that a device of this type might eliminate the signal issues as you experienced?


Oh I just noticed a typo in my original post. It was the TX side in my AV rack that gave the issue not the RX side. 

TX Side (This is where the extension cord gave the issue):

I have a SnapAV 10 outlet Power Conditioner to power my AV rack. This is where I currently have my Apple iPhone USB phone charger plugged in to power the TX side of my Celerity. I attempted to use one of their .5 foot extension cords to give me extra wiggle room. Once I used the .5 foot extension cord that is when I got flickering of the K8500 home menu screen. When I removed it flickering went away. I just said forget the extra wiggle room and went straight back into the Power Conditioner and rerouted my IR blaster to hit the top of the k8500 so I could control it with my Harmony. Been working flawless since. 


RX Side:

I have a SnapAV 6 Outlet Power Conditioner in Strong Versa Box. This is also where my OCB is located. I have my Apple iPhone USB phone charger also plugged into the Power Conditioner to power the RX side. 

I know you can use USB power from the TV supposedly to power the RX side but didn't care to try that method. 

http://www.celeritytek.com/documents/ct_dfo-hdmi_specifications.pdf


----------



## ramzy

I'm looking for a 45-50ft cable for UHD Bluray. From reading, that doesn't seem realistic at the moment. Is that correct?
Has anyone tried the Pluglug 75ft with the built in Signal Booster? Anyone have any luck with boosters in general?


----------



## MoG

ramzy said:


> I'm looking for a 45-50ft cable for UHD Bluray. From reading, that doesn't seem realistic at the moment. Is that correct?
> Has anyone tried the Pluglug 75ft with the built in Signal Booster? Anyone have any luck with boosters in general?


i'm in the same boat but needing 35-40 feet.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The cable industry is way behind the technology, at least as far as distances longer than about 15'-20'. At this point in time, it's purely hit and miss despite the claims by some cable mfrs of "tested at up to 18Gbps". Active cables (with current Redmere chipsets) is logically your best bet but even then problems are occurring for some (if not most). A really thick gauge high speed HDMI cable may work (either passive or active) or solid core CAT-6/7 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) with HDBT might also be an option but distance is the killer here. Mfrs are scrambling to test and certify via HDMI Licensed ATC's to standardize, and while that looks promising I think there's still a long way to go before one can purchase a 25' high speed hdmi cable that will reliably and consistently deliver the bandwidth required for UHD and/or Premium UHD. The situation gets even more complicated because the HDMI chipsets on both ends of the devices (source and sink) may need to be completely compatible as well.


----------



## rboster

ramzy said:


> I'm looking for a 45-50ft cable for UHD Bluray. From reading, that doesn't seem realistic at the moment. Is that correct?
> Has anyone tried the Pluglug 75ft with the built in Signal Booster? Anyone have any luck with boosters in general?





MoG said:


> i'm in the same boat but needing 35-40 feet.


Here's a recent thread and discussion on the topic from projector forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...rp/2374578-50-ft-future-proof-hdmi-cable.html


----------



## gdrmo

EngenZerO said:


> Oh I just noticed a typo in my original post. It was the TX side in my AV rack that gave the issue not the RX side.
> 
> TX Side (This is where the extension cord gave the issue):
> 
> I have a SnapAV 10 outlet Power Conditioner to power my AV rack. This is where I currently have my Apple iPhone USB phone charger plugged in to power the TX side of my Celerity. I attempted to use one of their .5 foot extension cords to give me extra wiggle room. Once I used the .5 foot extension cord that is when I got flickering of the K8500 home menu screen. When I removed it flickering went away. I just said forget the extra wiggle room and went straight back into the Power Conditioner and rerouted my IR blaster to hit the top of the k8500 so I could control it with my Harmony. Been working flawless since.
> 
> 
> RX Side:
> 
> I have a SnapAV 6 Outlet Power Conditioner in Strong Versa Box. This is also where my OCB is located. I have my Apple iPhone USB phone charger also plugged into the Power Conditioner to power the RX side.
> 
> I know you can use USB power from the TV supposedly to power the RX side but didn't care to try that method.
> 
> http://www.celeritytek.com/documents/ct_dfo-hdmi_specifications.pdf


I need a 35 feet cable from my Denon AVR to the the RS400 and then was planning on using a 3 foot Monoprice high speed cable to connect the K8500 to the Denon. Has anyone been able to pass 4K60 with a Denon 2200 in the chain using the Celerity or any other cable at least 35 foot to an RS400?


----------



## EngenZerO

rboster said:


> Here's a recent thread and discussion on the topic from projector forum:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...rp/2374578-50-ft-future-proof-hdmi-cable.html


That was also a good read. It seems like it is really a hit or miss when it comes to HDMI cables at longer runs.

I saw in one of the posts that they linked to another thread in which Celerity has new HDMI ends that are able to support [email protected] 4:4:4 at 600Mhz. 

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...t-future-proof-hdmi-cable-2.html#post42614114

I wonder if this is why I am having luck with my cable working.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

danbfree said:


> Edit: What about a BJC Series 1? I know Kurt focused on certifying the Series-FE as Premium, but I'm pretty sure the Series-1 will perform better being a thicker gauge.


It should. Here's the thing:

We haven't submitted the Series-1 cables for Premium testing for two reasons. One is that the Premium testing requires wrapping the cables quite tightly around a narrow pole multiple times, re-testing after each iteration. We use 23.5 AWG SOLID copper conductors in this cable (unlike most cables which use stranded conductors) because the solid conductor, having a regular cylindrical profile, will give better impedance stability. But this means the cable-connector interface is a bit more fragile under harsh bending near the connector -- where a stranded wire may snap a strand or two and tighten up its twist under pull, a solid wire is more likely to just pop free of the solder joint. We believe that multiple harsh bends close to the connector will probably damage the cable, which will result in a "fail."If it were not for the bend testing, I'd expect our Series-1 cable to pass Premium HDMI Cable testing at least up to 20, and probably up to 25, feet. 

The other reason, frankly, is that we are finding that consumers assume (quite incorrectly, but we've learned that you often can't buck these public opinion trends) that passive cables are inferior to "active" cables, and that people would rather buy a cable with a small profile and a booster chip than a cable with a large profile and no chip, despite the issues of reliability, future-compatibility, etc. that booster chips present. Accordingly, we're going to shift our emphasis away from larger-gauge passive cable and start introducing an active version of the Series-FE for longer runs. Active cables aren't eligible -- at least, not now -- for "Premium" certification, but if they're done right, should provide high reliability for longer-distance connections. 

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Nice to see you back Kurt.


----------



## theycallmeloaf

I was just about to but twisted veins high speed hdmi cables as I use them for 1080p content. But reviews say it's not 2.0/a compliant. Can anyone recommend good 6 ft cables that are decent priced


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ Nice to see you back Kurt.


Nice to be back! I haven't had a lot of time to spend on the forums lately as the last few months have been our busy season at BJC. But we've just added another employee, which is taking the pressure off a bit, and we're starting to see the usual seasonal slowdown, and I'm having a chance to return to the discussion....

I think it's fair to say that this issue of getting 18 Gig HDMI to run reliably over distance isn't going to go away soon. I do hope that when we do have our active cable products ready for sale, we'll be in a good position to sell something where we really can assure people of performance over distance. Over short runs, it's still the same kinds of issues we've always talked about -- impedance stability, in particular -- but those issues become more important as you increase signal bandwidth. 

I was really quite surprised that HDMI 2.0 didn't arrive with something in the way of multilevel encoding. The reason one can run a 10 Gig Ethernet patchcord has a lot to do with cutting the effective signal bandwidth by embedding more information in each pulse by multilevel encoding -- running 6 Gigs down a single pair in a straight binary encoding system is pretty crazy, and it's putting a strain on all the not-so-well-made cable out there. Of course, one of the odd features of this market is that people are so often lied to about cabling products that when you say that the result of shoving 18 Gigs down an HDMI cable will depend upon cable quality, you get called a lot of not-very-nice names, even though (as the experiences of people as related here, among other places, show) it demonstrably DOES depend upon cable quality. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## Otto Pylot

I agree about the cable quality statement. However, some mfrs will charge outrageous prices to support their claims of cable quality, and lot of the "quality" features, while sounding great on paper, really don't translate to real audio/visual differences that the enduser can perceive. If you spec out their cables there's a noticeable difference (love those charts to "prove" quality) but the human eyes and ears can't tell the difference. Solid core copper of sufficient gauge is where it's at, so far. So come on Kurt, put in some overtime and get those cables to us!


----------



## Otto Pylot

theycallmeloaf said:


> I was just about to but twisted veins high speed hdmi cables as I use them for 1080p content. But reviews say it's not 2.0/a compliant. Can anyone recommend good 6 ft cables that are decent priced


At 6', just about any good quality passive high speed HDMI cable will work. There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0a compliant cable. High speed is all you need to concern yourself with. I'd look at BJC, Monoprice, or Media Bridge.


----------



## Kurt_BlueJeansCable

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree about the cable quality statement. However, some mfrs will charge outrageous prices to support their claims of cable quality, and lot of the "quality" features, while sounding great on paper, really don't translate to real audio/visual differences that the enduser can perceive. If you spec out their cables there's a noticeable difference (love those charts to "prove" quality) but the human eyes and ears can't tell the difference. Solid core copper of sufficient gauge is where it's at, so far. So come on Kurt, put in some overtime and get those cables to us!


Oh, I know. The reason we entered the cable business in the first place was as an antidote to that sort of thing. I still chuckle when I see things like $1000 USB cables. I think we're seeing a bit less of that, though, as the Internet has made it a bit easier for the skeptics to maintain scrutiny. 

There is a BIT more to it than copper of sufficient gauge. It depends on the cable application. Lots o'copper is great for speaker wire. Impedance stability is the thing for high-frequency analog or digital, so it's more about dimensional consistency than sheer wire size (this is why, for example, you rarely see a Chinese-made SDI cable, and why product reviews for such things tend to be along the lines of "I plugged it in and it doesn't work!"). For analog audio, low capacitance and shielding are the biggies, and wire size can be positively tiny because the high-impedance circuit isn't very sensitive to resistive loss (we have to explain that one on the phone a LOT, because you wouldn't believe how many people demand a 10 AWG microphone cable...). 

But a lot of what we see in cable marketing is just crazy nonsense. The problem, sometimes, for us is that some of the things that happen at high frequencies are so counterintuitive that, if you don't know something about transmission line theory, they sound just as improbable as the crazy nonsense.  Why should a portion of a signal "reflect," and start propagating backwards down a wire toward the source, just because the dimensions of the insulation changed, for example? Sounds like nonsense -- but it's very real, and it's why impedance stability is important. 

Kurt
BJC


----------



## ramzy

Just wanted everyone to know that the Pluglug 75ft with booster does not work with the Sammy K8500. Absolutely no picture.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Not surprising if you're trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz at 75'! That may even be too long for solid core CAT-6/7 with HDBT. UHD/Premium UHD is going to force a lot of folks to reconsider their configurations for quite some time.


----------



## danbfree

Kurt_BlueJeansCable said:


> It should. Here's the thing:
> 
> We haven't submitted the Series-1 cables for Premium testing for two reasons. One is that the *Premium testing requires wrapping the cables quite tightly around a narrow pole multiple times, re-testing after each iteration.* We use 23.5 AWG SOLID copper conductors in this cable (unlike most cables which use stranded conductors) because the solid conductor, having a regular cylindrical profile, will give better impedance stability. But this means the cable-connector interface is a bit more fragile under harsh bending near the connector -- where a stranded wire may snap a strand or two and tighten up its twist under pull, a solid wire is more likely to just pop free of the solder joint. We believe that multiple harsh bends close to the connector will probably damage the cable, which will result in a "fail."If it were not for the bend testing, I'd expect our Series-1 cable to pass Premium HDMI Cable testing at least up to 20, and probably up to 25, feet.
> 
> The other reason, frankly, is that we are finding that consumers assume (quite incorrectly, but we've learned that you often can't buck these public opinion trends) that passive cables are inferior to "active" cables, and that people would rather buy a cable with a small profile and a booster chip than a cable with a large profile and no chip, despite the issues of reliability, future-compatibility, etc. that booster chips present. Accordingly, we're going to shift our emphasis away from larger-gauge passive cable and start introducing an active version of the Series-FE for longer runs. Active cables aren't eligible -- at least, not now -- for "Premium" certification, but if they're done right, should provide high reliability for longer-distance connections.
> 
> Kurt
> Blue Jeans Cable


That, right there, is WHY certifications can be total BS! Who the heck is going to wrap and re-wrap their cables around a narrow pole multiple times?!?!? Thanks for the great info Kurt!


----------



## Otto Pylot

I think the point of wrapping a cable multiple times around a cylinder and then testing is to check the bend radius to ensure that the wiring and connectors are reliable. Cables run perfectly straight shouldn't have any problems (distance being the exception) but most of us don't have completely straight cable runs. There are bends somewhere.

There are lots of ways to certify a cable. The idea of certification protocols set by someone like HDMI Licensing ensures that if the certification is performed by an Approved Testing Center, regardless of who manufactured the cable, the enduser has some sort of gauge for cable performance. I have never heard of the bend-stressing test before so I don't know if it is one of the ATC testing protocols or not. I try to keep the bend radius to an absolute minimum with my cabling so bend-stressing is not that important to me.

I would still prefer a cable that is certified by an ATC over a non-certified cable any day.


----------



## MoG

*Velox EHV-HD HDMI cable*

Do we know if the Ethereal Velox EHV-HD works in the real world?

It's available in lengths up to 50 feet and has been certified by DPL Labs for 18.2 Gbps. I don't know if it has been tested for 300mhz or 600mhz.

https://metrahometheater.com/ehd/cables/ehv-hd15.html
http://www.dpllabs.com/page/dpl-member-metra-home-theater-group-ehd



Pyxle said:


> I guess Redmere is Spectra7 now, after some merging and reorganization.
> 
> Note that the PRA1700 placemat does not mention HDMI 2.0 or 4K, and also that the design is old (2013): http://www.spectra7.com/pdfs/products/PRA1700-Product-Brief.pdf
> 
> The HT7180 (2014) does mention it: http://www.spectra7.com/pdfs/products/Spectra7-HT7180-M-ver5-Short-DS-20140910.pdf
> 
> Possibly the HT8181 (2015) handles it as well, although details are limited: http://www.spectra7.com/Spectra7-HT8181-Press-Release-20141120-A6-F.pdf. Supposedly the Ethereal Velox cable series has this chip, if you can find one.
> 
> If you want to know more about the company: http://www.spectra7.com/Spectra7-Corp-Overview-Oct05-2015.pdf


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI Licensing started a program last October called the Premium HDMI Cable Certification Program. Each certified cable comes with a special, counterfeit-proof seal so that you know it is genuine. Very similar to what BJC does. The certification covers all the protocols of 4k/UltraHD. Cables that pass can be labeled as either Premium High Speed HDMI cables or Premium High Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet.

HDMI Licensing is the agent that licenses the HDMI Specification, whose founders are Hitachi Maxwell, Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.; Lattice Semiconductor; Panasonic Corporation; Sony Corporation; Technicolor S.A. and Toshiba Corporation.

Cables certified by an HDMI ATC should start appearing very soon with the new Premium HDMI Cable labels. DPL Labs has their own certification program and is a "competitor" with HDMI Licensing. It would appear that a cable that has been tested by either DPL or a HDMI Licensed ATC is your only assurance that the cable has at least been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0b (enabled transmission of HDR video, bandwidth up to 18Gbps, and [email protected]/60 ). DPL Labs appears to be more closely tied to specific cable mfrs than an HDMI ATC.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> I think the point of wrapping a cable multiple times around a cylinder and then testing is to check the bend radius to ensure that the wiring and connectors are reliable. Cables run perfectly straight shouldn't have any problems (distance being the exception) but most of us don't have completely straight cable runs. There are bends somewhere.
> 
> There are lots of ways to certify a cable. The idea of certification protocols set by someone like HDMI Licensing ensures that if the certification is performed by an Approved Testing Center, regardless of who manufactured the cable, the enduser has some sort of gauge for cable performance. I have never heard of the bend-stressing test before so I don't know if it is one of the ATC testing protocols or not. I try to keep the bend radius to an absolute minimum with my cabling so bend-stressing is not that important to me.
> 
> I would still prefer a cable that is certified by an ATC over a non-certified cable any day.


I completely understand this line of reasoning but when I can take a $12.39 25ft cable and it seems to perform just as good, if not better, as a $90 certified cable, then I have to question things. I'm pretty sure not too far back someone mentioned they were having issues at 25ft with the Series FE and I'm having none with my cheap PlugLug "version 2.0"... Sure I don't need to do tight wraps or bends, etc so for me personally, the certification is meaningless... In fact, yesterday I was able to do some cable management with the slack I had so I no longer have cable running across the floor. Coming off the back of my computer it bends around about 120 degrees over maybe 4 inches of length to head towards the TV and still no issues. Since I don't plan on moving things around much, other than the TV itself on the arm mount side to side a bit, the ability to wrap and re-wrap around poles is moot... Just food for thought, I do appreciate companies like BJC taking the time to certify their cables but also Kurt's honest take that the thicker Series-1 would actually perform better at length as long as it doesn't need to be bent and re-bent, etc.


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> You are referring to *the PlugLug HD-1000 series High Speed cable* - that is the 5th cable that I listed above, and even though it was better than others, it also failed, loosing signal integrity about once every 1 to 2 minutes, or less often, but clearly visible. I tested out the 16 foot version.


Actually I was wrong... There is a "PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version)" NOT the HD-1000, that is the one I was referring to, and is available only in white... Just to clarify it is indeed a newer separate model.

http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


----------



## ppoulos

danbfree said:


> Actually I was wrong... There is a "PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version)" NOT the HD-1000, that is the one I was referring to, and is available only in white... Just to clarify it is indeed a newer separate model.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


Very confusing - in fact except for "(Fastest Version)" comment they advertise both cables the same! Both are supposedly able to handle 18 Gbps speed.


----------



## danbfree

ppoulos said:


> Very confusing - in fact except for "(Fastest Version)" comment they advertise both cables the same! Both are supposedly able to handle 18 Gbps speed.


I guess when they say version 2.0 they are referring to their own second version (HD-1000 being the first), not "HDMI 2.0" which we know isn't real cable designation anyway... but ya, pretty confusing... Still, I'm shocked a cable that is $12.39 at 25 ft works flawlessly, I can't recommend this enough for people looking for a budget cable. I got it when it was $19.99 and though it was a steal at that price!


----------



## Otto Pylot

The version 2.0 designation is just clever word association marketing to give the impression it's HDMI 2.0b compatible.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> The version 2.0 designation is just clever word association marketing to give the impression it's HDMI 2.0b compatible.


hehe... what's funny is that those of us who have been overthinking it may think that, but to me it looks like they are trying to convey that it is their second version of high speed cables, which it is, and seems to be working better as well.. Either way, and you could be right, it's definitely a second version from them and more people are having success with them than the first, which is the important thing to take away... Poorly worded/marketed in any case, they somehow struck just the right balance of quality and cost for a cheap import cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

If it consistently works and is reliable then that's all that matters, at least at this point in time.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> If it consistently works and is reliable then that's all that matters, at least at this point in time.


That's right... Seeing how well it works for me at 25ft, I will probably order more of their shorter cables as well.


----------



## BigScreen

danbfree said:


> Actually I was wrong... There is a "PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version)" NOT the HD-1000, that is the one I was referring to, and is available only in white... Just to clarify it is indeed a newer separate model.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


Product titles like that are irritating to me, and contribute to the confusion experienced by consumers just trying to find a product that works. Amazon is guilty of doing this "fastest version" labeling in their titles as well, so they're adding to the problem.

Perhaps there is marketing research to contest my position, but I would much prefer that they clearly label their product by type and version and let the specs speak for themselves.

To apply that to the PlugLug product above, I would label it as follows:

*PlugLug PL11032 **v2.0 High-Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet, White, Ethernet*

All HDMI cables support ARC, so that's redundant. All high-speed cables support 3D, so more redundancy. Now, when they come out with the new and improved version of this cable, they can label the new one with *PL11032 **v3.0 *if they decide to use the same model number. The version number instantly tells people which is the most recent version if both appear in the listings.

Then in the specs, they should list the applicable features they want to highlight. 

However, they're attempting to market through their title, just like people on eBay used to put "[email protected]@k" in their titles, so I get why they do that. It's Amazon's responsibility to maintain some decorum among their sellers, and they choose not to.

Since it appears that PlugLug only exists on Amazon, they don't have another way to market their products and provide in-depth information. How hard is it to put together a decent web site to provide people with details about your products? Being in that business, I know the answer, and the fact that they don't have a site is additional cause to be skeptical.

I admire BJC for doing so, and for Kurt participating here, as it gives me confidence that they're not a fly-by-night operation.

It's great to hear that this product is working for people.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Read my post above, #483.


----------



## theaterscapes

Passive HDMI at smaller lengths is your best chance(so cheaper cables could work in this regard as passive generally are cheaper)
There are no HDbaseT baluns that will work at this time in the 18 gbps 4:4:4 HDR 60 frames. 
The current chipset is only as good as 10 gbps.
Active standard HDMI cables won't work either as they a chipped too.

I did see a website that actually posts up there ratings per the cable of the their "Aurora" fiber optic HDMI cable and have cables at 5m, 10m, 15m, 20m, 30m. Tributaries is the source. Get ready for the price as 30m are just under $2,000. The cables are not inexpensive but at least they have charts for their cables.

There are plenty of HDMI manufactures that are rating their cables at 6ft lengths then copy and pasting it for all their lengths. All HDMI cables are not created equal.


----------



## Otto Pylot

theaterscapes said:


> Passive HDMI at smaller lengths is your best chance(so cheaper cables could work in this regard as passive generally are cheaper)
> There are no HDbaseT baluns that will work at this time in the 18 gbps 4:4:4 HDR 60 frames.
> The current chipset is only as good as 10 gbps.
> Active standard HDMI cables won't work either as they a chipped too.
> 
> I did see a website that actually posts up there ratings per the cable of the their "Aurora" fiber optic HDMI cable and have cables at 5m, 10m, 15m, 20m, 30m. Tributaries is the source. Get ready for the price as 30m are just under $2,000. The cables are not inexpensive but at least they have charts for their cables.
> 
> There are plenty of HDMI manufactures that are rating their cables at 6ft lengths then copy and pasting it for all their lengths. All HDMI cables are not created equal.


This is what we've been saying for a long time so it's not new. Cable mfrs are playing very loose with their claims and "specs". Certification is your only way to go, and even then, you need to know who did the certification process. Even a certified cable can have problems depending on length.


----------



## SpHeRe31459

HDMI 18Gbps cable woes are starting to make it into big names in the home theater world like this Sound and Vision article:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/uhd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-let-battle-begin

EDIT: Unfortunately the end results are basically an endorsement for a few high-end super high priced cables. I wish the author had also tried a good quality thick gauge high speed passive cable as a sort of control sample.


----------



## DLCPhoto

SpHeRe31459 said:


> HDMI 18Gbps cable woes are starting to make it into big names in the home theater world like this Sound and Vision article:
> http://www.soundandvision.com/content/uhd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-let-battle-begin
> 
> EDIT: Unfortunately the end results are basically an endorsement for a few high-end super high priced cables. I wish the author had also tried a good quality thick gauge high speed passive cable as a sort of control sample.


The author of that article has participated here in the JVC RS600 thread, and posted a link to that article. I replied there, along the same lines as you, specifically mentioning a cheap cable I found advertised on Amazon, from MediaBridge.

It claims some type of HDMI Certification (don't know if this is one of the "official" agencies for this, but it sounds like it is), for all HDMI 2.0a functions, and "at least" 16Gbps data transmission rate. Only $27 for a 50-foot length. It would be cheap enough for him to check it out, and asked if he would be willing to do that. No reply yet.

Here's the link:

MediaBridge Ultra Series Cables


----------



## Otto Pylot

To the question of HDMI cable certification, HDMI Licensing started their HDMI 2.0b certification program around October thru their ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers). Cables labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI cables (with or without ethernet) should start appearing soon. If they are legit, they will have specialized label or certificate that can't be counterfeited. The protocols developed for certification are standardized as long as the testing is performed by an ATC and the cable comes with the special label or certificate. DPL Labs also has a certification program but it appears to be their own set of protocols and more closely tied to specific mfrs. BJC also offers certified cables and I think their certification comes from an ATC but I'm not 100% sure. Any other claims of certified cables needs to be taken with a grain of salt. However, even if a cable is certified by an ATC, DPL, or BJC that doesn't mean that it's going to function without issues in a home setup. At those speeds, bend radius is going to play an issue as well as compatible HDMI 2.0b chipsets in the devices.


----------



## BigScreen

DLCPhoto said:


> The author of that article has participated here in the JVC RS600 thread, and posted a link to that article. I replied there, along the same lines as you, specifically mentioning a cheap cable I found advertised on Amazon, from MediaBridge.
> 
> It claims some type of HDMI Certification (don't know if this is one of the "official" agencies for this, but it sounds like it is), for all HDMI 2.0a functions, and "at least" 16Gbps data transmission rate. Only $27 for a 50-foot length. It would be cheap enough for him to check it out, and asked if he would be willing to do that. No reply yet.
> 
> Here's the link:
> 
> MediaBridge Ultra Series Cables


Considering I couldn't get a 15 foot MediaBridge Ultra cable to work at 4K @ 60p 4:4:4, I would have no confidence in the chance that anything longer would work, much less a 50 footer. I tried to contact MediaBridge to see if they thought that I might have received a defective cable, but they were not interested in working with me on it.

Maybe David saw my post from December 7th and came to the same conclusion...


----------



## Otto Pylot

The bottom line from this 500 post thread is that if one wants to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 15'- 20', there are no guarantees no matter what the cable mfrs says. Even a properly certified cable, at this point in time, may have issues over that distance. Part of this is the fault of the tv mfrs who have cleverly pushed 4k HDR to the masses not taking into consideration that lots of folks have HTS with cable runs longer than about 15'. FO may be the only way to reliably go the distance. This is why a lot of us have been pushing the use of a conduit where possible.


----------



## DLCPhoto

BigScreen said:


> Considering I couldn't get a 15 foot MediaBridge Ultra cable to work at 4K @ 60p 4:4:4, I would have no confidence in the chance that anything longer would work, much less a 50 footer. I tried to contact MediaBridge to see if they thought that I might have received a defective cable, but they were not interested in working with me on it.
> 
> Maybe David saw my post from December 7th and came to the same conclusion...


Yet another discouraging report; but thanks for the info!


----------



## alebonau

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/uhd-blu-ray-vs-hdmi-let-battle-begin#MPKiewHfeuAPYVRI.97

kudos to dave vaughn for going through the trouble to establish for uhd blu-ray...basically there is one option if you run a projector needing a 35ft/10m hdmi cable...a $900 audio quest. well great there is even one option I guess. but gee I cant help but thinking the entire cable industry here has been caught napping. 

a $900 cable needed for the only source player costs $400 ? something seems out of kilter.

heres hoping some more alternatives pop up...as seems a touch crazy having to spend $900 on a cable to experience the format in the home ! 

the key ingredient appears to be silver....

I thought id look local with our own aussie brand kordz, I got a bit excited when I saw their lux cable...seemed to be cable 

http://www.kordz.com/lux-hdmi-cables.htm

and silver content there too...

but then I looked up price ... $1100 aussie for a 10m jobbie :eek surprise:

ok lets home the makers are busy at it making up some ground here with some more affordable option that do indeed work over 35ft/10m lengths for all of those wiht projectors and want to get right into uhd.... I doubt the needs going away....


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## Otto Pylot

$900 for a cable is just plain ripping off the consumer. Silver? I doubt if t really makes a difference. Same as gold connectors. Distance is always going to be a problem until a better pipe is designed or the realization that something like FO is going to be what's needed for distances longer than about 15'-20' for reliable, and consistent signal propagation. You gotta hand it to the tv mfr industry for getting everyone all fired up about 4k/UHD and purchasing their new tv's and projectors. I find it hard to believe that someone in R&D didn't know about the potential issues with distance. I'm sure the distance issue will get worked out eventually but until then, there are going to be a lot of frustrated and unhappy consumers.


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## alebonau

http://chemistry.about.com/od/elements/f/What-Is-The-Most-Conductive-Element.htm

silver is the most conductive element followed by copper and then gold. we already have a capable pipeline ...audioquest have shown that. upto other makers to come up with whats required...they probably are madly working away have no doubt...lets face it they've all been caught with their pants down  and with no help from hdmi org with their stupid certification program and standards that have been left behind in relevance.

as consumers we are left as the sucker.... with our only choice of either spending mega bucks in one cable of choice or "suck and see"


----------



## Otto Pylot

Conductivity really only counts if it's like metal to like metal. And then the only real difference can be seen on a scope. The perceptual difference to the human eyes and ears is negligible. Distance is the issue as well as the wire gauge and type used. Solid copper wires, or CCS (copper coated steel)? Overpriced cables and slick marketing doesn't guarantee success, no matter what the mfr says.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> The bottom line from this 500 post thread is that if one wants to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 15'- 20', there are no guarantees no matter what the cable mfrs says. Even a properly certified cable, at this point in time, may have issues over that distance. Part of this is the fault of the tv mfrs who have cleverly pushed 4k HDR to the masses not taking into consideration that lots of folks have HTS with cable runs longer than about 15'. FO may be the only way to reliably go the distance. This is why a lot of us have been pushing the use of a conduit where possible.


If a cheap 25' cable works perfect for me, then I'm sure that it can be done by other companies too... Now, mine is simply a decently built 26awg cable and many companies don't want to go to a thick cable, but at 26awg, mine doesn't seem that thick, really, just right... But, you don't see BJC offering 26awg, just 28 and 23.5 in their own series and 24 and 22 in their decent quality Tartan import cable. I'd personally love to see exactly how their 3 thicker cables work from 25-35 feet. I think someone said earlier that they called and were told that their 23.5awg Series-1 won't work past 25ft, but that's just what they feel comfortable telling people/guaranteeing. at $102.50 for a 30ft, it's obviously a good quality cable and I wouldn't be surprised to see that work fine at 30ft for most people, unless there truly is a passive signal "brick wall" somewhere very close beyond 25ft.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Conductivity really only counts if it's like metal to like metal. And then the only real difference can be seen on a scope. The perceptual difference to the human eyes and ears is negligible. Distance is the issue as well as the wire gauge and type used. Solid copper wires, or CCS (copper coated steel)? Overpriced cables and slick marketing doesn't guarantee success, no matter what the mfr says.


ummmmm FACT

the audio quest cable works….

….the others don't….

this isn't a hypothetical discussion on what anyones belief system might be on what works and doesnt work.

am awaiting what other alternatives might be rather than any argument or discussion on what might or might not work

I want to know what works… its black and white. it doesnt matter what any mfr says I don't care what they use. I don't care what appears on a scope I don't care about perceptual differences.

I want something that works. at present there is one…

…I wait for the others to catch up...


----------



## alebonau

danbfree said:


> If a cheap 25' cable works perfect for me, then I'm sure that it can be done by other companies too... Now, mine is simply a decently built 26awg cable and many companies don't want to go to a thick cable, but at 26awg, mine doesn't seem that thick, really, just right... But, you don't see BJC offering 26awg, just 28 and 23.5 in their own series and 24 and 22 in their decent quality Tartan import cable. I'd personally love to see exactly how their 3 thicker cables work from 25-35 feet. I think someone said earlier that they called and were told that their 23.5awg Series-1 won't work past 25ft, but that's just what they feel comfortable telling people/guaranteeing. at $102.50 for a 30ft, it's obviously a good quality cable and I wouldn't be surprised to see that work fine at 30ft for most people, unless there truly is a passive signal "brick wall" somewhere very close beyond 25ft.


hi danbfree, you have a cable at 35ft that passes all the tests dave vaughn found most cables bar one fail ? if do sing out from the roof tops … there will be many who want to hear


----------



## rhodesj

alebonau said:


> http://chemistry.about.com/od/elements/f/What-Is-The-Most-Conductive-Element.htm
> 
> silver is the most conductive element followed by copper and then gold.


That only effects DC resistance of the cable, and cable gauge matters just as much when measuring resistance. But for what we're dealing with, with a signal requiring 18 gbs bandwidth, DC resistance is only a tiny part of the issue for transmitting a high-bandwith signal.


----------



## alebonau

rhodesj said:


> alebonau said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://chemistry.about.com/od/elements/f/What-Is-The-Most-Conductive-Element.htm
> 
> silver is the most conductive element followed by copper and then gold.
> 
> 
> 
> That only effects DC resistance of the cable, and cable gauge matters just as much when measuring resistance. But for what we're dealing with, with a signal requiring 18 gbs bandwidth, DC resistance is only a tiny part of the issue for transmitting a high-bandwith signal.
Click to expand...

I think you miss my point. They can use play dough for all I care. 

What I care about is a cable that works. At present there is one ... and a quite pricey one at that.

I will leave makers to use what they feel is necessary but it would appear that there is at present only one maker that has something on the market that is fit for purpose.

Have to presume the other makers are either sitting in their hands. Clueless . None the wiser ...or just plain slow or not capable to have anything suitable on the market at the time ????

Is anyone aware of any other maker coming to the market with something that works ... Any time soon ??


----------



## danbfree

rhodesj said:


> That only effects DC resistance of the cable, and cable gauge matters just as much when measuring resistance. But for what we're dealing with, with a signal requiring 18 gbs bandwidth, DC resistance is only a tiny part of the issue for transmitting a high-bandwith signal.


That's interesting, but how does a $12.39 25' cable work fine, at a full 18gbps, but seems like NOTHING works past that... this is a good discussion, again I'm wondering if there is some kind of passive cable hard limit just beyond 25' or what... Unfortunately, my budget doesn't allow it, I'd like to try a 30' and 35' 24awg Tartan cable that is high quality, for import anyway, and see how it works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> ummmmm FACT
> 
> the audio quest cable works….
> 
> ….the others don't….
> 
> this isn't a hypothetical discussion on what anyones belief system might be on what works and doesnt work.
> 
> am awaiting what other alternatives might be rather than any argument or discussion on what might or might not work
> 
> I want to know what works… its black and white. it doesnt matter what any mfr says I don't care what they use. I don't care what appears on a scope I don't care about perceptual differences.
> 
> I want something that works. at present there is one…
> 
> …I wait for the others to catch up...


That's the whole point of this discussion. Some cables work for some, and some don't, even if they are the same brand. There is no consistency at this point in time so it's all trial and error, regardless of mfr claims. This has nothing to do with one's belief system. It's about cables that work reliably for most over distances longer than 20'.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> That's the whole point of this discussion. Some cables work for some, and some don't, even if they are the same brand. There is no consistency at this point in time so it's all trial and error, regardless of mfr claims. This has nothing to do with one's belief system. It's about cables that work reliably for most over distances longer than 20'.


Otto, I think the point is that in previous comments you have been pushing at starting with Certified cables when obviously even they can vary, and none are certified at 25' or longer... If there was a plethora of certified cables out there, that's one thing, but a lot of people need a full 10M/35ft for their application and don't want to spend $900-1100 for optical solutions... I just wish there was some basic certification that didn't involve so many bends and re-bends in the process, was reasonably priced for manufacturers, while being also being accepted as legitimate by the mainstream enthusiasts out there... 

In the meantime, do any of the experts out there know why some cheap cables work at 25' but no other passive cable at all, regardless of price, seem to work past that? i'm genuinely curious if we are looking at some kind of signal brick wall at, say 27,28'?


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> Otto, I think the point is that in previous comments you have been pushing at starting with Certified cables when obviously even they can vary, and none are certified at 25' or longer... If there was a plethora of certified cables out there, that's one thing, but a lot of people need a full 10M/35ft for their application and don't want to spend $900-1100 for optical solutions... I just wish there was some basic certification that didn't involve so many bends and re-bends in the process, was reasonably priced for manufacturers, while being also being accepted as legitimate by the mainstream enthusiasts out there...
> 
> In the meantime, do any of the experts out there know why some cheap cables work at 25' but no other passive cable at all, regardless of price, seem to work past that? i'm genuinely curious if we are looking at some kind of signal brick wall at, say 27,28'?


I think we're talking about the same thing but coming at it from different angles. A properly certified cable (one that comes with a certificate) is the only "guarantee" to the end user that the cable has at least gone thru some sort of rigorous testing by a reputable mfr for most of HDMI 2.0b and offers some sort of consistent reliability for a given length, but it is certainly not perfect. One poster wants a specific brand now that will give him the performance that he needs without issue, and that's probably not going to happen. Certification is certainly not the final answer, as we have seen, but at least it's a metric that can be easily verified as to reliability. A basic certification process is exactly what HDMI Licensing, BJC, and DLP have been working on. It would be nice if they could all agree on the process so everyone follows the same procedures and protocols. There's a lot of snake oil salesmen out there that are doing nothing more than confusing an already confusing situation. I think your brick wall statement is right on. 25' was the maximum allowed for certification for HDMI 1.4b protocols for a passive cable. That's why Redmere technology was introduced, to push that 25' limit further and still maintain signal integrity, up to a certain length. HDR is a whole different matter so the cable mfrs are trying to figure out what that limit is and reliably produce a cost-effective cable, which brings us back to the certification process. Why do some cheap cables seem to work and the expensive ones don't is the million dollar question. Solid copper wires vs CCS, gauge, insulated pairs, luck(?), it could be anything. As an end user, I don't care. I just want to know if I purchase a passive high speed HDMI cable that says it's going to work for my needs that I can reliably depend on that. Currently there is nothing that meets that criteria so some are stuck with the latest video technology and can't push it from point A to point B without issues.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> I think we're talking about the same thing but coming at it from different angles. A properly certified cable (one that comes with a certificate) is the only "guarantee" to the end user that the cable has at least gone thru some sort of rigorous testing by a reputable mfr for most of HDMI 2.0b and offers some sort of consistent reliability for a given length, but it is certainly not perfect. One poster wants a specific brand now that will give him the performance that he needs without issue, and that's probably not going to happen. Certification is certainly not the final answer, as we have seen, but at least it's a metric that can be easily verified as to reliability. A basic certification process is exactly what HDMI Licensing, BJC, and DLP have been working on. It would be nice if they could all agree on the process so everyone follows the same procedures and protocols. There's a lot of snake oil salesmen out there that are doing nothing more than confusing an already confusing situation. I think your brick wall statement is right on. 25' was the maximum allowed for certification for HDMI 1.4b protocols for a passive cable. That's why Redmere technology was introduced, to push that 25' limit further and still maintain signal integrity, up to a certain length. HDR is a whole different matter so the cable mfrs are trying to figure out what that limit is and reliably produce a cost-effective cable, which brings us back to the certification process. Why do some cheap cables seem to work and the expensive ones don't is the million dollar question. Solid copper wires vs CCS, gauge, insulated pairs, luck(?), it could be anything. As an end user, I don't care. I just want to know if I purchase a passive high speed HDMI cable that says it's going to work for my needs that I can reliably depend on that. Currently there is nothing that meets that criteria so some are stuck with the latest video technology and can't push it from point A to point B without issues.


Spot on, Otto... I guess we can hope things clear up with HDR hitting the scene now and excellent TV's like the new Vizio P series available at reasonable prices may help push the issue to more clarity.


----------



## JJameson

I'm in need of some information. I'm having a hard time finding a 20ft cable that will pass through full 18gbps. I have a Sony X850C and I am looking for a 20ft HDMI cable that will support 4k/60hz 4:4:4 and 1080p/ 120hz. I have tried 3 cables so far, including 2 Kabeldirect cables. Both pass 1080P/120hz fine but only one will show any picture at 4k/60hz 4:4:4 but only with sparkles. Does anyone have any other recommendations or should I keep trying Kabeldirect cables? Should I really splurge on the monoprice luxe series? Thanks and I appreciate any and all responses.


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## Otto Pylot

There are lots of carefully worded claims being made by cable mfrs for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz but that's all they are, claims, but no guarantees. 20' seems to be the cutoff length for reliability but you will find folks who have had luck at that length and a little bit longer. The bottom line is that if a cable works for one person it may not work for you. Cable mfrs are scrambling to come up with a certification program that is reliable and reproducible which gives the consumer some sort of a guideline as to what may or may not work, but even the top certification programs (HDMI Licensing, DLP Labs, and BJC) are struggling with distance.

The problem is that the tv mfrs are pushing the new video formats really hard to sell expensive tv's but are suspiciously quiet on the distance limitation. Are they aware of it? Nobody knows. The technology is here today, but the connectivity is not. There is nothing wrong with being an early adopter but you will still have a while to wait unless you get lucky and find a cable that works. It may even turn out that a connection other than an HDMI cable will be needed as formats progress. You also need to keep in mind that the HDMI 2.0b chipsets in your devices may also play a part.


----------



## danbfree

JJameson said:


> I'm in need of some information. I'm having a hard time finding a 20ft cable that will pass through full 18gbps. I have a Sony X850C and I am looking for a 20ft HDMI cable that will support 4k/60hz 4:4:4 and 1080p/ 120hz. I have tried 3 cables so far, including 2 Kabeldirect cables. Both pass 1080P/120hz fine but only one will show any picture at 4k/60hz 4:4:4 but only with sparkles. Does anyone have any other recommendations or should I keep trying Kabeldirect cables? Should I really splurge on the monoprice luxe series? Thanks and I appreciate any and all responses.


This one works great for me at 25', unfortunately they don't make too many sizes... but at only $12.99 it's worth a shot, when I tried a number of other ones, that even cost more, and only this one has worked reliably. 

http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


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## HiFiGuy1

JJameson said:


> I'm in need of some information. I'm having a hard time finding a 20ft cable that will pass through full 18gbps. I have a Sony X850C and I am looking for a 20ft HDMI cable that will support 4k/60hz 4:4:4 and 1080p/ 120hz. I have tried 3 cables so far, including 2 Kabeldirect cables. Both pass 1080P/120hz fine but only one will show any picture at 4k/60hz 4:4:4 but only with sparkles. Does anyone have any other recommendations or should I keep trying Kabeldirect cables? Should I really splurge on the monoprice luxe series? Thanks and I appreciate any and all responses.


We've had good luck with these Ethereal MHX cables up to 5m by themselves, but much beyond that it will depend on the specific display and source(s) you are using. The MHX are DPL Labs certified up to 5m, and if you use them with an HDM-GA1 Gigabit Accelerator, they are certified to 15m. Your roughly 7m length is sort of in a gray area, where it would certainly work with the GA1, but that's a relatively costly combo for a "short" cable like that, but it might also work with the Ethereal MHX 7m cable. They are fairly inexpensive, so it'd be worth a shot.


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## HiFiGuy1

danbfree said:


> Otto, I think the point is that in previous comments you have been pushing at starting with Certified cables when obviously even they can vary, and none are certified at 25' or longer... If there was a plethora of certified cables out there, that's one thing, but a lot of people need a full 10M/35ft for their application and don't want to spend $900-1100 for optical solutions... I just wish there was some basic certification that didn't involve so many bends and re-bends in the process, was reasonably priced for manufacturers, while being also being accepted as legitimate by the mainstream enthusiasts out there...
> 
> In the meantime, do any of the experts out there know why some cheap cables work at 25' but no other passive cable at all, regardless of price, seem to work past that? i'm genuinely curious if we are looking at some kind of signal brick wall at, say 27,28'?


Just so you know, the combo I just mentioned is available at 10m for about half your upper number, so it's much more affordable than the fiber solution you talk about.


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## danbfree

JJameson said:


> I'm in need of some information. I'm having a hard time finding a 20ft cable that will pass through full 18gbps. I have a Sony X850C and I am looking for a 20ft HDMI cable that will support 4k/60hz 4:4:4 and 1080p/ 120hz. I have tried 3 cables so far, including 2 Kabeldirect cables. Both pass 1080P/120hz fine but only one will show any picture at 4k/60hz 4:4:4 but only with sparkles. Does anyone have any other recommendations or should I keep trying Kabeldirect cables? Should I really splurge on the monoprice luxe series? Thanks and I appreciate any and all responses.


Also, what is your video source? GTX 9X0 or other? If it's an nVidia card, they seem to push a strong signal so the cheap cable I mentioned should work, otherwise these AV experts know their stuff so I'd consider what they have to say.


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## gitongisip

Tried every HDMI cable 35 footer they are all hit or missed on handshakes. Finally the celerity fiber optic 40 footer is the only cable that did not disappoint me. Handshake is spot on every time. Expensive but my search is finally over.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ glad to hear that the Celerity worked for you at that distance. There are others who haven't been as lucky with Celerity. I'd go out and buy a lottery ticket as well, just in case


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## EngenZerO

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ glad to hear that the Celerity worked for you at that distance. There are others who haven't been as lucky with Celerity. I'd go out and buy a lottery ticket as well, just in case


It also so far has been working flawlessly for me at 100ft. I did have that one day of handshaking issues as noted in this thread but since then nothing but rock solid!


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ As I suspected, it may be that fiber optic is the answer for those long runs, at least for now. Sure hope you're using a conduit for your cabling.


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## EngenZerO

^ yep have conduit!


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Great! You will need it later on.


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## statman28

For any Australians out there I can confirm that this 8m HDMI cable (26ft) works in 4k YCbCr444 at 60Hz. Good times 

http://www.iselection.com.au/8m-whi...ted-high-speed-3d-4k-ultra-hd-audio-ethernet/


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## Otto Pylot

If the cable works reliably that's not bad for $40. The specs do indicate that the cable is certified by an ATC (HDMI Licensing Authorized Testing Center) which is good to see that the HDMI Licensing of Premium High Speed HDMI cables are finally coming to market. The cable should come with a counterfeit-proof label as well to ensure authenticity.


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## grossag

I got a new Vizio P75 TV that does [email protected] but not at 4:4:4. Still even getting a 50ft HDMI cable that can do [email protected] with Dolby Atmos over ARC has been a real challenge. So far my results are:



Monoprice SlimRun 75ft cable was faulty. Didn't do [email protected] and also didn't do ARC; the rep confirmed that it should do [email protected] but not necessarily ARC so I returned it.
Monoprice Cabernet 50ft cables have been iffy. I have run through 2 so far, one doing [email protected] and one not. But there was a lot of distortion over ARC if I did anything over Stereo.

so I'm probably going to do a run through Amazon and buy a few that say they can do 18Gbps and [email protected] with ARC support and see whether I can get lucky.


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## Otto Pylot

50' - 75' for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is going to be a challenge for any cable no matter what the cable mfr claims. I would get a cable with as thick of a gauge wire that is offered and try that, even tho your loss of flexibility is going to be fairly severe for a straight run. If there are bends in your run, then bend radius will play a big part as well. As we have been stating for quite some time now, the tv mfrs pushed this on the public before the delivery systems have been upgraded to reliably handle the bandwidth required. This is especially true for passive cables and active cables are not much better. Some have even tried FO cables but the results are mixed. Distance is the biggest problem. Runs over about 15' - 20' seem to be where problems start. Good luck.


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## gdrmo

gitongisip said:


> Tried every HDMI cable 35 footer they are all hit or missed on handshakes. Finally the celerity fiber optic 40 footer is the only cable that did not disappoint me. Handshake is spot on every time. Expensive but my search is finally over.


What components are in you setup and are you running the Celerity direct from the source or passing the signal through your AVR?


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## Mockingjay

I am running my Samsung 55JS9000 (with latest firmware 1443) with an desktop pc using a Asus GTX 970 OC Turbo card (with latest bios and drivers ). I tried to get image using 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz 4:4:4 at 8 bit, using a cable Black-Connect *HDMI® MKII *7.5 m length, which cost me in November 2015 about $130 (including all taxes). And does not work. No picture on the TV. It works only in combination 2160p 60Hz 4:2:0 or 2160p 30 Hz 4:4:4. The cable has specified ”ATC-certified up to and including 7,5 meter”, ”High-Speed data transfer up to 18 Gbit/s (Audio/Video)”, ”resolution of max. 4K (3840 x 2160) with 50/60p” and many other things. Money thrown out the window. Solution: Another cable.


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## Otto Pylot

The operative word is "up to". Good luck finding a cable to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz at lengths longer than about 15'.


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> The operative word is "up to". Good luck finding a cable to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz at lengths longer than about 15'.


My $16 25' cable works great... Cheap 65" RCA 4K TV, Cheap GTX 950 video card, cheap cable, 4:4:4 [email protected] no problem.

I don't know why people seem to just ignore me when I say that this cable works great, it's almost like people are too stubborn that they think they have to spend more. This one is a true 26AWG so, so many ones even more expensive, are only 28AWG.

http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug®-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


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## danbfree

Mockingjay said:


> I am running my Samsung 55JS9000 (with latest firmware 1443) with an desktop pc using a Asus GTX 970 OC Turbo card (with latest bios and drivers ). I tried to get image using 3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz 4:4:4 at 8 bit, using a cable Black-Connect *HDMI® MKII *7.5 m length, which cost me in November 2015 about $130 (including all taxes). And does not work. No picture on the TV. It works only in combination 2160p 60Hz 4:2:0 or 2160p 30 Hz 4:4:4. The cable has specified ”ATC-certified up to and including 7,5 meter”, ”High-Speed data transfer up to 18 Gbit/s (Audio/Video)”, ”resolution of max. 4K (3840 x 2160) with 50/60p” and many other things. Money thrown out the window. Solution: Another cable.


This $16 cable is all you need: http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug®-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO 

Trust me, I couldn't believe it either but it works great, no need to spend more... The GTX 9X0 cards have a good signal strength, I'm sure it will work great for you.


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## DLCPhoto

danbfree said:


> I don't know why people seem to just ignore me when I say that this cable works great, it's almost like people are too stubborn that they think they have to spend more.http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug®-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


For what it's worth, I haven't ignored you! I have that cable on my Amazon wish list, and as soon as I determine the exact length I'll need, that's going to be the one I order!


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## gdrmo

I purchased the Celerity DFO HDMI cable (35 foot) and it passes the tests of displaying the Samsung K8500 UHD player home screen on start up and 4K 60 fps, 4:4:4 videos from YouTube. It only works consistently connecting the UHD direct to my JVC RS400 projector. Not sure why, but with the Denon 2200 in the chain, the 4K 60 fps signal is not stable. Anyone have any hacks for snaking the DFO HDMI cable through the 2 inch projector mounting pipe without removing the projector or pulling out the JVC power cord, the second hdmi cable for Dish Network, and Cat 5 cable? The clearance where the cables exit the mounting pipe and the top of the projector is very tight but I'd rather not have to remove the installed cables or the projector from the mounting bracket. All the existing cables were pulled through before the projector was mounted.


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## danbfree

DLCPhoto said:


> For what it's worth, I haven't ignored you! I have that cable on my Amazon wish list, and as soon as I determine the exact length I'll need, that's going to be the one I order!


So if you can go shorter, that's always good, but at least we know that this PlugLug works great at 25' if you need that long coming from a GeForce GTX 9X0...


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## DLCPhoto

danbfree said:


> So if you can go shorter, that's always good, but at least we know that this PlugLug works great at 25' if you need that long coming from a GeForce GTX 9X0...


I'm actually liking into moving my gear around to allow for a 25 foot run. Where it is now I'd be looking at 50 or possibly 60 feet!


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## danbfree

grossag said:


> I got a new Vizio P75 TV that does [email protected] but not at 4:4:4. Still even getting a 50ft HDMI cable that can do [email protected] with Dolby Atmos over ARC has been a real challenge. So far my results are:
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice SlimRun 75ft cable was faulty. Didn't do [email protected] and also didn't do ARC; the rep confirmed that it should do [email protected] but not necessarily ARC so I returned it.
> Monoprice Cabernet 50ft cables have been iffy. I have run through 2 so far, one doing [email protected] and one not. But there was a lot of distortion over ARC if I did anything over Stereo.
> 
> so I'm probably going to do a run through Amazon and buy a few that say they can do 18Gbps and [email protected] with ARC support and see whether I can get lucky.


The Vizio P series does do 4:4:4 at 4k60p, make sure you enable "HDMI color subsampling"... but if you have to go 50ft, then ya, you're definitely going to have an issue connecting at the full 18gbps until more robust solutions emerge.


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## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> My $16 25' cable works great... Cheap 65" RCA 4K TV, Cheap GTX 950 video card, cheap cable, 4:4:4 [email protected] no problem.
> 
> I don't know why people seem to just ignore me when I say that this cable works great, it's almost like people are too stubborn that they think they have to spend more. This one is a true 26AWG so, so many ones even more expensive, are only 28AWG.
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug®-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


Nobody's ignoring you  You had good luck with your cable choice. The problem is that is no guarantee that the next person who purchases the same cable will be as lucky. That's the problem right now. A thicker gauge wire is always better but the trade-off is a loss somewhat of flexibility and increased input stress, depending on how you have it installed.


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## danbfree

DLCPhoto said:


> I'm actually liking into moving my gear around to allow for a 25 foot run. Where it is now I'd be looking at 50 or possibly 60 feet!


Good luck Don, let us know how it all works out! It looks like beyond 25ft you're looking at an expensive optical run...


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## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Nobody's ignoring you  You had good luck with your cable choice. The problem is that is no guarantee that the next person who purchases the same cable will be as lucky. That's the problem right now. A thicker gauge wire is always better but the trade-off is a loss somewhat of flexibility and increased input stress, depending on how you have it installed.


For those that are connecting a Geforce GTX 9X0 card, it IS going to work, they are known for their strong HDMI output signal... for other sources, I definitely wouldn't guarantee anything... sorry, I should have been more clear originally.


----------



## gdrmo

gdrmo said:


> I purchased the Celerity DFO HDMI cable (35 foot) and it passes the tests of displaying the Samsung K8500 UHD player home screen on start up and 4K 60 fps, 4:4:4 videos from YouTube. It only works consistently connecting the UHD direct to my JVC RS400 projector. Not sure why, but with the Denon 2200 in the chain, the 4K 60 fps signal is not stable. Anyone have any hacks for snaking the DFO HDMI cable through the 2 inch projector mounting pipe without removing the projector or pulling out the JVC power cord, the second hdmi cable for Dish Network, and Cat 5 cable? The clearance where the cables exit the mounting pipe and the top of the projector is very tight but I'd rather not have to remove the installed cables or the projector from the mounting bracket. All the existing cables were pulled through before the projector was mounted.


Was able to pull the Celerity DFO HDMI cable through the mounting pipe/conduit with trimmer string.


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## rhodesj

danbfree said:


> For those that are connecting a Geforce GTX 9X0 card, it IS going to work, they are known for their strong HDMI output signal... for other sources, I definitely wouldn't guarantee anything... sorry, I should have been more clear originally.


I get occasional drops or sparkles from this cable and a GTX950 to a Samsung JS8500. I've got to agree with Otto, there's no guarantee.


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## danbfree

rhodesj said:


> I get occasional drops or sparkles from this cable and a GTX950 to a Samsung JS8500. I've got to agree with Otto, there's no guarantee.


Very strange, that exact 25' cable I posted works great, even with a 120 degree bend in it coming out of the back of my 950 to my cheap POS TV... crazy how much variation there is out there... I was surprised my TV even supported the 4:4:4, I just have to decide if I use that or RGB full now...


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## alebonau

http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm

I can confirm the above cable works just fine in 10m / 35ft version to pass UHD blu-ray off samsung uhd blu-ray player via marantz 8802A processor and to jvc x7000 projector.

ps between the samsung uhd blu-ray and my 8802A I found just the shortest length of this 
http://www.thecableconnection.com.a...peed-with-Ethernet-Full-HD-1080p-Digital.html

so for short lengths I think something more affordable can be used


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## danbfree

alebonau said:


> http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm
> 
> I can confirm the above cable works just fine in 10m / 35ft version to pass UHD blu-ray off samsung uhd blu-ray player via marantz 8802A processor and to jvc x7000 projector.
> 
> ps between the samsung uhd blu-ray and my 8802A I found just the shortest length of this
> http://www.thecableconnection.com.a...peed-with-Ethernet-Full-HD-1080p-Digital.html
> 
> so for short lengths I think something more affordable can be used


Nice, we have our first confirmed active non-optical, non-network HDMI cable working at 10m/32.75ft... I am genuinely curious if they work in their 15m/nearly 50' version too, although I don't see why not... and I didn't see any pricing, can you fill us in on those details? And yes, for 15' and shorter just about any decent high-speed passive cable will work, the shorter the better.


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## alebonau

danbfree said:


> Nice, we have our first confirmed active non-optical, non-network HDMI cable working at 10m/32.75ft... I am genuinely curious if they work in their 15m/nearly 50' version too, although I don't see why not... and I didn't see any pricing, can you fill us in on those details? And yes, for 15' and shorter just about any decent high-speed passive cable will work, the shorter the better.


hi danbfree,

theyre an aussie company

http://www.kordz.com 

just down the road from me, when my existing 10m "high speed" hdmi just wouldn't work flat out "no signal", I gave them a call and they straight off the bat told me their PRS hdmi would do the job for uhd blu-ray. guaranteed.

so I grabbed their prs cable off a local reseller with the confidence since they say it will work to take back if didnt. over a few days I first ran the cable direct from the samsung uhd direct to the projector and found that to work. then ran it from marantz to the projector. nd that worked too... still rather than run the cable through walls and under the house etc kept using over a couple of days to make sure and no problems. so then yesterday finally ran from projector down wall and under the house and then back up into the house to connect up and been working fine with about 6-8 UHD blu-rays have so far fed through it and general other use with digital TV, appleTV and blu-ray/DVD that has all worked no probs.

and yes this is what they recommend for UHD for over 7.5m(25ft) to 15m(50ft)










for price where you likely are, they appear to be sold in the US e.g. below, 
https://futurereadysolutions.com/pr...-active-fixed-installation-hdmi-cable-series/

us aussies dont pay s much, but then to be expected in home country and we never pay retail or any listed prices 

still they are not a cheapo cable, but then especially since running into walls and under the house etc I wanted something that would be a sure thing. 

as a note when buying it the retailer pointed out to me the way they do the connectors ... unlike some makers that scrimp on the spec and make the plugs slightly undersize to save cost...the kordz plugs wont fall out or accidentally pull out. I can vouch for that they are a VERY solid fit. infact they claim a 3kg retention force to over come which is about what it is  

anyways fingers crossed that while these have worked no problem so far that they continue to do


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm
> 
> I can confirm the above cable works just fine in 10m / 35ft version to pass UHD blu-ray off samsung uhd blu-ray player via marantz 8802A processor and to jvc x7000 projector.
> 
> ps between the samsung uhd blu-ray and my 8802A I found just the shortest length of this
> http://www.thecableconnection.com.a...peed-with-Ethernet-Full-HD-1080p-Digital.html
> 
> so for short lengths I think something more affordable can be used


Stated certification is only up to 10.2Gbps with a limited 2 year warranty for active cables. It does state 17.82Gbps for HDMI 2.0 mode for 8-bit, 4:4:4 but no mention of being certified at that bandwidth. However, I'm glad to see cable mfrs coming out with a more detailed spec sheet. That's definitely a step in the right direction, and if it works with no issues, who cares?


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Stated certification is only up to 10.2Gbps with a limited 2 year warranty for active cables. It does state 17.82Gbps for HDMI 2.0 mode for 8-bit, 4:4:4 but no mention of being certified at that bandwidth. However, I'm glad to see cable mfrs coming out with a more detailed spec sheet. That's definitely a step in the right direction, and if it works with no issues, who cares?


with uhd blu-ray via the samsung uhd player for 4K below are formats I have noticed 

while playing a uhd blu-ray,









and the sammy "splash screen"









as far as certification goes there is premium certified, good luck finding anything over 5m(15ft). in the mean time we have knowledge amongst end users on cables that actually work for uhd blu-ray and the above quoted does.


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## Wannabe Actuary

I just ordered a Samsung UN65KS8000 that will be coming next week.

Since it can run 4K with HDR, I started checking into all my existing cables/plugs and it seems like all my stuff is high speed (almost exclusively all stuff from MP with ferrite cores). No long runs in the mix to worry about, but as I don't have a 4K UHD BR player at this point, am I correct in assuming there is no need to worry about cable updates at this point?

From what I can tell, "high speed" cables should be able to handle 4K at 24 fps. Is anything other than UHD BR using higher than that? 

Essentially, in my setup the tv would be doing upscaling and not accepting any 4K source material (although some Netflix material is 4K, so I'll likely test that out) as of yet.


----------



## darkrenata

I can confirm that the MHX-HDME5	and MHX-HDME10 W/HDM-GA1 both work. not sure about the 15m cable, I got handshake issues, but I think this might be more to do with my GPU at the time as the 10M had issues too the first time but works now. I have gotten 8bit 4:4:4 60Hz 4K to work and 4K 4:4:4 24Hz at 12bit. For some reason my GPU will only let me set 8 or 12 bit need, to figure out how to set 10 bit and will re-update this.

For those that want to know my current chain is GTX 970 -> MHX-HDME5 -> Denon s720w -> MHX-HDME10 W/HDM-GA1 -> JVC DLA-X550r. Currently runs with no issue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Wannabe Actuary said:


> I just ordered a Samsung UN65KS8000 that will be coming next week.
> 
> Since it can run 4K with HDR, I started checking into all my existing cables/plugs and it seems like all my stuff is high speed (almost exclusively all stuff from MP with ferrite cores). No long runs in the mix to worry about, but as I don't have a 4K UHD BR player at this point, am I correct in assuming there is no need to worry about cable updates at this point?
> 
> From what I can tell, "high speed" cables should be able to handle 4K at 24 fps. Is anything other than UHD BR using higher than that?
> 
> Essentially, in my setup the tv would be doing upscaling and not accepting any 4K source material (although some Netflix material is 4K, so I'll likely test that out) as of yet.


Ferrite cores are basically useless unless your cables are very close to some sort of electrical field. In theory, any good quality passive high speed HDMI cable will work, but distance is the apparent limiting factor. The problem is pushing the new higher video standards at distances longer than about 15'-20'. Reading thru this thread you'll see that some have luck with a particular brand of cable at a given length and others haven't. It's still pretty much a crap shoot regardless of what the cable mfr. claims so all you can try is experiment and see what works best for your particular setup. The thicker the gauge (24AWG) the better your chances are. However, you'll lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI inputs.


----------



## Wannabe Actuary

Otto Pylot said:


> Ferrite cores are basically useless unless your cables are very close to some sort of electrical field. In theory, any good quality passive high speed HDMI cable will work, but distance is the apparent limiting factor. The problem is pushing the new higher video standards at distances longer than about 15'-20'. Reading thru this thread you'll see that some have luck with a particular brand of cable at a given length and others haven't. It's still pretty much a crap shoot regardless of what the cable mfr. claims so all you can try is experiment and see what works best for your particular setup. The thicker the gauge (24AWG) the better your chances are. However, you'll lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI inputs.


Thanks. New tv comes tomorrow. I don't think any existing cable in my setup is longer than 6 feet, but again, there won't be any 4K sources connected yet. When the time comes I'll just have to try some cables I guess.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At 6' you should be ok with any good high speed HDMI cable, probably a 26AWG which will give you a bit more flexibility and bend radius, and you don't need to spend a fortune on the cables either.


----------



## danbfree

Wannabe Actuary said:


> Thanks. New tv comes tomorrow. I don't think any existing cable in my setup is longer than 6 feet, but again, there won't be any 4K sources connected yet. When the time comes I'll just have to try some cables I guess.


Just like Otto said, the thicker gauge is better... this one in Black 6ft is supposedly 24awg, but the white 25ft 26awg actually works for me at that length. But only six bucks for 6 ft is a good deal and worth trying. http://smile.amazon.com/PlugLug-High-Speed-Cable-Version-Fastest/dp/B00JZCSPWO


----------



## datap1mp

On the recommendation of someone in this thread I decided on this cable "PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return" from Amazon.

But I chose Black as the color, but by doing so actually received this cable "PlugLug HD-1000 Series High-Speed HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, Audio Return, and CL3 Rated - Triple Shielded"

Both are the same price, but the black cable did not work 4:4:4 4K 60hz, I then overnighted the white and sure enough that one worked.

Right before I ordered the white one, I asked the PlugLug vendor if they were both the same cable and he said yes, shows how much they know.


----------



## DLCPhoto

I just bought the Marantz SR7010 Receiver, and JVC RS400 Projector, and the White 25' PlugLug "Fastest" HDMI cable. I'm trying to 'stress test' it to make sure it supports the full 18Gbps rate before running it through the walls. The challenge here is that I don't have the Samsung UHD BD Player, or any other 4K/HDR/10-bit Source.

I can "force" the SR7010 to output 4K/60 4:4:4 and the cable transmits this without problem, but the JVC shows this as "8-bit" suggesting that this isn't the full 18Gbps stream that I need to truly determine if this cable will get the job done.

I then thought, if I could find a downloadable clip at 4K, 4:4:4, 10-bit, that I could either load this on a USB Stick, plug that into the SR7010 (although I'm not sure it can play such a file), or connect the SR7010 via Ethernet to my PC, and play it from there.

Does anybody know of such a file/clip that I could download, and how I could play this on my SR7010/RS400?

Or if anybody knows of a setting on the SR7010 to "force" it to 10-bit output, along with the 4K/60 4:4:4 output, that would work as well. I've posted on the Marantz thread, as well as the RS500/RS600 thread (where there is a lot of discussion about cables), but haven't yet figured out a way to do this.

Thanks.

(And yes, I will have the guy doing the install either run a conduit, or otherwise make sure the cable can be readily replaced should the need arise. But I would like to determine right off the bat, if this cable will do the job, as many here have fortunately found.)


----------



## doctorwizz

DLCPhoto said:


> I just bought the Marantz SR7010 Receiver, and JVC RS400 Projector, and the White 25' PlugLug "Fastest" HDMI cable. I'm trying to 'stress test' it to make sure it supports the full 18Gbps rate before running it through the walls. The challenge here is that I don't have the Samsung UHD BD Player, or any other 4K/HDR/10-bit Source.
> 
> I can "force" the SR7010 to output 4K/60 4:4:4 and the cable transmits this without problem, but the JVC shows this as "8-bit" suggesting that this isn't the full 18Gbps stream that I need to truly determine if this cable will get the job done.
> 
> I then thought, if I could find a downloadable clip at 4K, 4:4:4, 10-bit, that I could either load this on a USB Stick, plug that into the SR7010 (although I'm not sure it can play such a file), or connect the SR7010 via Ethernet to my PC, and play it from there.
> 
> Does anybody know of such a file/clip that I could download, and how I could play this on my SR7010/RS400?
> 
> Or if anybody knows of a setting on the SR7010 to "force" it to 10-bit output, along with the 4K/60 4:4:4 output, that would work as well. I've posted on the Marantz thread, as well as the RS500/RS600 thread (where there is a lot of discussion about cables), but haven't yet figured out a way to do this.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> (And yes, I will have the guy doing the install either run a conduit, or otherwise make sure the cable can be readily replaced should the need arise. But I would like to determine right off the bat, if this cable will do the job, as many here have fortunately found.)


Your AVR will not play video files.
Some 10bit videos can be found here:
http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=10bits


----------



## DLCPhoto

doctorwizz said:


> Your AVR will not play video files.
> Some 10bit videos can be found here:
> http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=10bits


Thanks for this; I guess it's a good news/bad news situation?

Yes, I can download the files I'd like to play, but no, there's no way of playing them? Not by USB stick or ethernet connection to my PC?

Any other suggestions on how I can 'stress test' this cable without the K8500 (or HTPC)?


----------



## doctorwizz

DLCPhoto said:


> Thanks for this; I guess it's a good news/bad news situation?
> 
> Yes, I can download the files I'd like to play, but no, there's no way of playing them? Not by USB stick or ethernet connection to my PC?
> 
> Any other suggestions on how I can 'stress test' this cable without the K8500 (or HTPC)?


PC's don't play HDR yet. 
You could test with with a Nivida 900 series video card with 444. But the K8500 is a more problematic. A PC's signal is more stable. So the cable may work with a PC, but not with a K8500. You really need to test that cable with a K8500. Or a Nvdia Sheild.


----------



## DLCPhoto

doctorwizz said:


> PC's don't play HDR yet.
> You could test with with a Nivida 900 series video card with 444. But the K8500 is a more problematic. A PC's signal is more stable. So the cable may work with a PC, but not with a K8500. You really need to test that cable with a K8500. Or a Nvdia Sheild.


Gotcha.

I'm just not ready to commit to buying the Samsung, given some quirks, and would prefer to see what the Philips player looks like and costs, and then there's the Panasonic as well, although pricier.

Regarding the Nvidia Shield - that's $200, which is half the cost of the Samsung. A question or two on the Shield:

1. Does the Shield bring anything to the table that wouldn't also be provided by, for example, the Samsung K8500 or other UHD BD Player once I buy one? In other words, would it be obsolete once a UHD BD Player is bought?

2. Does the Shield do HDR? I've been looking through the documentation and haven't found this specifically addressed yet. If it doesn't, then I still won't be able to 'stress test' my cable.

3. Does the Shield and its rentals offer Atmos encoding, as that is part of my installation (in progress)?

Thanks!


----------



## doctorwizz

DLCPhoto said:


> Gotcha.
> 
> I'm just not ready to commit to buying the Samsung, given some quirks, and would prefer to see what the Philips player looks like and costs, and then there's the Panasonic as well, although pricier.
> 
> Regarding the Nvidia Shield - that's $200, which is half the cost of the Samsung. A question or two on the Shield:
> 
> 1. Does the Shield bring anything to the table that wouldn't also be provided by, for example, the Samsung K8500 or other UHD BD Player once I buy one? In other words, would it be obsolete once a UHD BD Player is bought?
> 
> 2. Does the Shield do HDR? I've been looking through the documentation and haven't found this specifically addressed yet. If it doesn't, then I still won't be able to 'stress test' my cable.
> 
> 3. Does the Shield and its rentals offer Atmos encoding, as that is part of my installation (in progress)?
> 
> Thanks!


I don't think it will be obsolete anytime soon. Still in very active development.

It does 10bit rec2020. It will do HDR. Not enabled yet. 

Vudu 4K is coming in the next update. Should be Atmos. Not sure. Atmos and DTS:X works on the sheild with SPMC. SPMC can also change panel refresh rate.


----------



## DLCPhoto

doctorwizz said:


> I don't think it will be obsolete anytime soon. Still in very active development.
> 
> It does 10 rec2020. It will do HDR. Not enabled yet.
> 
> Vudu 4K is coming in the next update. Should be Atmos. Not sure. Atmos and DTS:X works on the sheild with SPMC. SPMC can also change panel refresh rate.


Thanks again. I meant "obsolete" in the sense of it being unnecessary when I get a UHD BD Player like the Samsung K8500 down the road. Doesn't the K8500 do everything the Nvidia Shield does, and more? If so, then I wouldn't need both, and would likely want to sell the Shield, at a loss.

Or is there a reason I would still need/want the Shield, even if I had the K8500 or other UHD BD Player?

(I guess gaming capability might be an advantage of the Shield, but I don't game, so this wouldn't apply to me.)


----------



## doctorwizz

DLCPhoto said:


> Thanks again. I meant "obsolete" in the sense of it being unnecessary when I get a UHD BD Player like the Samsung K8500 down the road. Doesn't the K8500 do everything the Nvidia Shield does, and more? If so, then I wouldn't need both, and would likely want to sell the Shield, at a loss.
> 
> Or is there a reason I would still need/want the Shield, even if I had the K8500 or other UHD BD Player?
> 
> (I guess gaming capability might be an advantage of the Shield, but I don't game, so this wouldn't apply to me.)


Ok. If you had a 8500, you probably would never use the sheild. 
To me the Sheild is the perfect device to play movies in SPMC from router attached hard drives.


----------



## DLCPhoto

doctorwizz said:


> Ok. If you had a 8500, you probably would never use the sheild.
> To me the Sheild is the perfect device to play movies in SPMC from router attached hard drives.


Gotcha. Thanks again.

If the shield were cheaper, I might consider it, to buy me some time before purchasing a UHD BD Player. But at half the cost of such a player, it just doesn't make sense for me. I don't have movies stored, so that advantage doesn't apply to me either.

I will be contacting Marantz today, to see if there is some setting to enable 10-bit 4K/60 4:4:4 output. Probably not, but still worth a call.

ETA: did an online chat with Marantz. No way to 'force' 10-bit output. It will pass through 10-bit when received, but no way to 'upscale' non 10-bit input. Bummer...


----------



## danbfree

datap1mp said:


> On the recommendation of someone in this thread I decided on this cable "PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return" from Amazon.
> 
> But I chose Black as the color, but by doing so actually received this cable "PlugLug HD-1000 Series High-Speed HDMI Cable (25 Feet) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, Audio Return, and CL3 Rated - Triple Shielded"
> 
> Both are the same price, but the black cable did not work 4:4:4 4K 60hz, I then overnighted the white and sure enough that one worked.
> 
> Right before I ordered the white one, I asked the PlugLug vendor if they were both the same cable and he said yes, shows how much they know.


Yes, that is true, I mentioned in my posts here that it is the white one that is the newer version... the seller themselves doesn't even realize that the black HD-1000 is actually older/different version, so I suggest people get the white one specifically. Edit: To clarify, in 25 ft get the white one... the nomenclature to look for is "version 2.0 (fastest version)" which is not available at the shorter lengths, but then again, in shorter lengths most decent quality high speed cables will work anyway.


----------



## danbfree

DLCPhoto said:


> I just bought the Marantz SR7010 Receiver, and JVC RS400 Projector, and the White 25' PlugLug "Fastest" HDMI cable. I'm trying to 'stress test' it to make sure it supports the full 18Gbps rate before running it through the walls. The challenge here is that I don't have the Samsung UHD BD Player, or any other 4K/HDR/10-bit Source.
> 
> I can "force" the SR7010 to output 4K/60 4:4:4 and the cable transmits this without problem, but* the JVC shows this as "8-bit" suggesting that this isn't the full 18Gbps stream *that I need to truly determine if this cable will get the job done.
> 
> I then thought, if I could find a downloadable clip at 4K, 4:4:4, 10-bit, that I could either load this on a USB Stick, plug that into the SR7010 (although I'm not sure it can play such a file), or connect the SR7010 via Ethernet to my PC, and play it from there.
> 
> Does anybody know of such a file/clip that I could download, and how I could play this on my SR7010/RS400?
> 
> Or if anybody knows of a setting on the SR7010 to "force" it to 10-bit output, along with the 4K/60 4:4:4 output, that would work as well. I've posted on the Marantz thread, as well as the RS500/RS600 thread (where there is a lot of discussion about cables), but haven't yet figured out a way to do this.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> (And yes, I will have the guy doing the install either run a conduit, or otherwise make sure the cable can be readily replaced should the need arise. But I would like to determine right off the bat, if this cable will do the job, as many here have fortunately found.)


FYI 8-bit, [email protected] in 4:4:4 is actually 18Gbps, it looks like you are trying to push beyond that... 10-bit is going to be popular for HDR but that is also at 4:2:0 and only 24Hz.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx


----------



## DLCPhoto

danbfree said:


> FYI 8-bit, [email protected] in 4:4:4 is actually 18Gbps, it looks like you are trying to push beyond that... 10-bit is going to be popular for HDR but that is also at 4:2:0 and only 24Hz.


Thanks for the reply.

My understanding of just what 4:4:4 is, how it relates to pixel depth, data rates, etc., is extremely limited; I need to do some basic reading. A reply in another thread on this subject made it unclear in my mind whether 10-bit was 'required' to push it to 18Gbps, which is why I was pursuing the 10-bit option.

But if you're correct, that 8-bit [email protected], 4:4:4, does in fact require 18Gbps, then I'm good to go, and this $9.99 cable will do the job!


----------



## danbfree

DLCPhoto said:


> Thanks again. I meant "obsolete" in the sense of it being unnecessary when I get a UHD BD Player like the Samsung K8500 down the road. Doesn't the K8500 do everything the Nvidia Shield does, and more? If so, then I wouldn't need both, and would likely want to sell the Shield, at a loss.
> 
> Or is there a reason I would still need/want the Shield, even if I had the K8500 or other UHD BD Player?
> 
> (I guess gaming capability might be an advantage of the Shield, but I don't game, so this wouldn't apply to me.)


I wouldn't get the Shield if you don't game at all and want UHD Blu Ray capability... Being completely honest here as a Shield owner, it is mainly good for games, Plex, Kodi, etc... I have no interest in UHD discs until the players are $99 and Red Box has the rentals for a buck-forty-nine or whatnot, which will be a few years probably.


----------



## danbfree

DLCPhoto said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> My understanding of just what 4:4:4 is, how it relates to pixel depth, data rates, etc., is extremely limited; I need to do some basic reading. A reply in another thread on this subject made it unclear in my mind whether 10-bit was 'required' to push it to 18Gbps, which is why I was pursuing the 10-bit option.
> 
> But if you're correct, that 8-bit [email protected], 4:4:4, does in fact require 18Gbps, then I'm good to go, and this $9.99 cable will do the job!


Glad I could help clarify, see that link I added later on, according to that chart, HDMI 2.0/18Gbps will actually be supported at up to 16-bit in 4:4:4 at 24Hz... Now, movies/streaming will almost certainly stay at 24Hz, but I'm sure we'll see 4k material at 60Hz emerge and in full 4:4:4 that will indeed be limited to 8-bit.


----------



## doctorwizz

The Sheild outputs in the menus:
4k/60Hz
Rec. 2020 YCbCr 4:4:4
10 bit

The K8500 does 4:4:4 while in the menus. IDK the bit depth.

Both devices can be problematic and require good cables according to HDFury. The maker of the Integral.


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> The Sheild outputs in the menus:
> 4k/60Hz
> Rec. 2020 YCbCr 4:4:4
> 10 bit
> 
> The K8500 does 4:4:4 while in the menus. IDK the bit depth.
> 
> Both devices can be problematic and require good cables according to HDFury. The maker of the Integral.


Man, I need to dig deeper in my Shields menus... I'm letting my son use it on his 1080p right now anyway, but thanks for the tip, I'm going to want to play with it on my 4k some more now. :0


----------



## doctorwizz

danbfree said:


> Man, I need to dig deeper in my Shields menus... I'm letting my son use it on his 1080p right now anyway, but thanks for the tip, I'm going to want to play with it on my 4k some more now. :0


Maybe you could try that 25ft PlugLug with the sheild?


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> Maybe you could try that 25ft PlugLug with the sheild?


Good idea, will do... I'll reply with results soon.


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> Maybe you could try that 25ft PlugLug with the sheild?


It's weird, It's boots fine in full 4k resolution @60Hz but when it hits the desktop, it drop to a 1920x2160 resolution and give me fine snow and black... Not sure if I need to do a reset somehow, I'll try a shorter cable next.


----------



## doctorwizz

danbfree said:


> It's weird, It's boots fine in full 4k resolution @60Hz but when it hits the desktop, it drop to a 1920x2160 resolution and give me fine snow and black... Not sure if I need to do a reset somehow, I'll try a shorter cable next.


You said 1920x2160
Must have meant 1920x1080


----------



## doctorwizz

danbfree said:


> It's weird, It's boots fine in full 4k resolution @60Hz but when it hits the desktop, it drop to a 1920x2160 resolution and give me fine snow and black... Not sure if I need to do a reset somehow, I'll try a shorter cable next.


I dug out my 20ft KabelDirect pro cable and tried it with the Sheild. Works fine plugged into a Denon AVR. That AVR has a 3ft KD pro connected to the TV box. 
Of course it is not an extended test. Could be random black screens.


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> You said 1920x2160
> Must have meant 1920x1080


No, that's why it was weird, but after watching TV on the other input and now going back to it, it's working fine at [email protected], but I don't see anywhere to change color sampling.


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> The Sheild outputs in the menus:
> 4k/60Hz
> Rec. 2020 YCbCr 4:4:4
> 10 bit
> 
> The K8500 does 4:4:4 while in the menus. IDK the bit depth.
> 
> Both devices can be problematic and require good cables according to HDFury. The maker of the Integral.


I can't find any other settings other than [email protected] and to lower refresh down in 4k or all the way down to 1080p res.

Edit: There is the choice of "dynamic range", I switched from auto to Full and still works good, so I don't know.


----------



## doctorwizz

danbfree said:


> I can't find any other settings other than [email protected] and to lower refresh down in 4k or all the way down to 1080p res.
> 
> Edit: There is the choice of "dynamic range", I switched from auto to Full and still works good, so I don't know.


There is no where to change colorspace. I can see it on my Denon AVR. The only time it changes is when I play a video in Kodi and the panel refresh changes to 24. It drops to 8bit. 
Netflix does not switch to 24hz and colorspace stays on 10bit. 
I can't change the dynamic range on mine.
Resolution is in the HDMI menu:


----------



## danbfree

doctorwizz said:


> There is no where to change colorspace. I can see it on my Denon AVR. The only time it changes is when I play a video in Kodi and the panel refresh changes to 24. It drops to 8bit.
> Netflix does not switch to 24hz and colorspace stays on 10bit.
> I can't change the dynamic range on mine.
> Resolution is in the HDMI menu:


OK, so ya, I can change my dynamic range and have a super cheap RCA 65" 4K, but thanks for the confirmation... I don't believe mine does 10-bit, it looks garbled when I try to enable 10-bit in Roku 4, so interesting how I can change dynamic range on the Shield, obviously 2 different things, but still... Playing video from Plex it also drops to 24Hz.


----------



## alebonau

looks like mono price are the first to get there with a certified premium 20ft cable,

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15431


----------



## SpHeRe31459

alebonau said:


> looks like mono price are the first to get there with a certified premium 20ft cable,
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15431


Yay, finally another vendor offers Premium certified cables


----------



## Lyons07

Hi,
I need some help please!

I have the Samsung UHD-8500 player, plus Denon X4000, SEK-3500 and HU8550 TV. Everything was working great, I moved everything to my closet, which is about 40' feet away. On my TV/SEK it shows that HDMI 1 is highlighted when hitting source. Once I hit ok, it doesn't show a picture on Blu-ray. I'm using 1 HDMI for video and 1 HDMI for AUDIO.

This is the HDMI, I bought from Amazon---HDMI Cable 40 FT - 2.0 HDMI Cable 4K Ultra-High Speed ( 40 FEET Long ) CL3 Rated - Supports Ethernet Audio Return ( ARC ) 4K Ultra HD 2160p / Bandwidth up to 18Gbps / 3D HD 2 X 1080p Ready - 40ft HDMI Cord White PVC Class 3 in wall Rated with Gold Tip Connector.

I have 3 HDMI's in the wall and tried all three but still no picture. It does work with my SEK to my Denon ARC with the 40' run. If I go straight from Blu-ray to my Denon it works and that is only like 2 feet away. I'm guess the HDMI's I bought are not compatiable with this player with a 40' run. Any suggestions please, on what I should go with? Or is there something else going on I don't know about?


Thanks in advance,
Jerry


----------



## Otto Pylot

CL3 is a fire rating so that has nothing to do with the performance of the cable. Ethernet means nothing as well because there aren't any consumer devices that take advantage of that.

The cable specs you list are supported by any passive High Speed HDMI cable so the "4k Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable" is just fancy market-speak. The use of 2.0 is also a bit misleading because there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable, which is sort of what the product description implies. Gold tips are also a bit of market-speak because unless your HDMI inputs are gold as well, you will have two different metals making contact for the connection. And even if they are both gold, you won't see any audio or visual difference.

"Bandwidth up to 18Gbps" is also misleading. If the cable has been tested and certified to work reliably at a given length and speed that's one thing. But the "up to" part is the cable mfrs's way of say it may or may not work.

The 40' distance is more than likely your problem. It's not a compatibility issue with your hardware. At 40', if you want to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz then you are going to need to use a cable with a thicker gauge (possibly 16AWG) but you will lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI input. You can try an active cable like one with Redmere technology but those too can have issues at lengths longer than 25' depending on what you want to push down the the cable.

In-wall HDMI cables can also be an issue if you haven't used a conduit because replacing/repairing a cable can be difficult. There are folks who have had success at 40' or greater but it's all been trial and error.

Premium High Speed HDMI cables, if they are real, are a tradmarked name and mean that the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) following testing and certification protocols established by HDMI Licensing. The cables should come with a counterfeit-proof laser label to indicate that the cables are authentic. If not, they are counterfeit.

Why are you using 1 HDMI cable for audio and 1 for video? A single HDMI cable can be used for both so that's a bit confusing to me.


----------



## Lyons07

Otto Pylot said:


> CL3 is a fire rating so that has nothing to do with the performance of the cable. Ethernet means nothing as well because there aren't any consumer devices that take advantage of that.
> 
> The cable specs you list are supported by any passive High Speed HDMI cable so the "4k Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable" is just fancy market-speak. The use of 2.0 is also a bit misleading because there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable, which is sort of what the product description implies. Gold tips are also a bit of market-speak because unless your HDMI inputs are gold as well, you will have two different metals making contact for the connection. And even if they are both gold, you won't see any audio or visual difference.
> 
> "Bandwidth up to 18Gbps" is also misleading. If the cable has been tested and certified to work reliably at a given length and speed that's one thing. But the "up to" part is the cable mfrs's way of say it may or may not work.
> 
> The 40' distance is more than likely your problem. It's not a compatibility issue with your hardware. At 40', if you want to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz then you are going to need to use a cable with a thicker gauge (possibly 16AWG) but you will lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI input. You can try an active cable like one with Redmere technology but those too can have issues at lengths longer than 25' depending on what you want to push down the the cable.
> 
> In-wall HDMI cables can also be an issue if you haven't used a conduit because replacing/repairing a cable can be difficult. There are folks who have had success at 40' or greater but it's all been trial and error.
> 
> Premium High Speed HDMI cables, if they are real, are a tradmarked name and mean that the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) following testing and certification protocols established by HDMI Licensing. The cables should come with a counterfeit-proof laser label to indicate that the cables are authentic. If not, they are counterfeit.
> 
> Why are you using 1 HDMI cable for audio and 1 for video? A single HDMI cable can be used for both so that's a bit confusing to me.


Hi,
Thanks for getting back to me. In order to pass 4k/HDR through my receiver, I had to do it this way. My receiver is not 4k, that's why I went through my SEK-3500 to get 4k/HDR. Hope, I'm saying this right. I was thinking of trying this one---Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 40ft. Thoughts on this HDMI?
Thanks, Jerry


----------



## Otto Pylot

The Cabernet series of cables have worked for some, but not everyone, so it's a crapshoot. Amazon has a pretty good return policy so all you can do is try. The cable are Chinese-made TPC (tin plated copper, not solid copper) and there is no mention of who, or how they are certified, nor the wire gauge. They are active cables so installation is uni-directional, source to sink (tv). You can't damage anything if you put it in backwards, you just won't get a signal.


----------



## Lyons07

Otto Pylot said:


> The Cabernet series of cables have worked for some, but not everyone, so it's a crapshoot. Amazon has a pretty good return policy so all you can do is try. The cable are Chinese-made TPC (tin plated copper, not solid copper) and there is no mention of who, or how they are certified, nor the wire gauge. They are active cables so installation is uni-directional, source to sink (tv). You can't damage anything if you put it in backwards, you just won't get a signal.


Thanks again! I'll give these a try and report back, on what I find out. I guess as you said, it will be trail and error.
Thank you very much,
Jerry


----------



## Brahmzy




----------



## AustinJerry

alebonau said:


> looks like mono price are the first to get there with a certified premium 20ft cable,
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15431


I just ordered two of these 20' cables. Has anyone already received and tested the cable out?


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## DLCPhoto

For what it's worth, I have the White, "fastest version" of the 25' PlugLug HDMI Cable, and use it to connect my Marantz SR7010 and JVC RS400. I don't have a UHD Player or other 4K source, but by choosing the appropriate output options on the Marantz, I can get it to output 4K/60, 4:4:4, 8 bits, which according to the chart a couple of posts up, requires 18Gbps (ok, 17.82!). I have had no problems with connectivity with these (or less demanding) settings, so it appears this cable can provide the speeds needed for 4K at the highest typical bit rates.

It's already cheap, I happened to order it when on sale for $9.99. YMMV.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ The chart posted above was from Scott Wilkinson, one of the Editors for AVS after a meeting he had attended on HDMI 2.0 late last year I believe. I take it that your cable run is no longer than 25'?


----------



## DLCPhoto

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ The chart posted above was from Scott Wilkinson, one of the Editors for AVS after a meeting he had attended on HDMI 2.0 late last year I believe. I take it that your cable run is no longer than 25'?


Correct - 25' exactly.

They have a 50' version, with the same claims as far as speeds, but I haven't tried this one out. I haven't actually had my cable installed in the wall yet, and I'm hoping that 25' will be sufficient. If not, I may have to try out their longer one!

On this subject, I had another question. Let's say I need a little more than 25', but not a full 50 feet. If I take my 25' PlugLug, and get another 10' one of the same type (each of which would carry the 18Gbps signal), and couple them together with a high-quality coupler, perhaps that would be a better solution than a single 50' one, given the 15' less distance to cover?

Any recommendations on a high-quality coupler that wouldn't degrade the signal?

And yeah, I understand it's still a crap-shoot; just trying to be prepared with options.


----------



## Otto Pylot

You're very lucky. The cable specs in your link say it is certified by an ATC for HDMI 1.4a hardware specs for 10.82Gbps @340MHz. Lots of marketing gibberish (oxygen-free copper, gold connectors, etc) so obviously the cable you have is an "over-achiever", especially being as it is a passive cable. I think the main reason that the cable apparently works is that the wire gauge is 26AWG (a bit thicker than most). Output signal is one thing but what the tv is actually receiving and displaying can be something different. You get picture and sound, which is good, but I have my doubts that a cable that is certified for 10.82Gbps can consistently deliver a full 18Gbps. What is even more strange is that the product description says 18Gbps but the actual specs state certification at 10.82Gbps. If it works for you then that's all that matters but it does seem suspicious. Did you receive and actual certificate of compliance?

25' is the maximum certifiable (guaranteed) distance for passive cables and HDMI 1.4b hardware. You may be able to get away with some sort of active HDMI extender but daisy-chaining two passive cables, and then trying to achieve what you want for 40' may be difficult to do reliably. What I definitely wouldn't do is install the cable in-wall without the use of a conduit, and keep the bend radius at an absolute minimum, because you will eventually be replacing this cable.

The 50' has the same specs and their 75' is an active cable.

It does appear that the only reliable way to truly send and receive 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is with a fiber optic cable. One cable, no daisy-chaining, but it is an expensive option.


----------



## DLCPhoto

Otto Pylot said:


> You're very lucky. The cable specs in your link say it is certified by an ATC for HDMI 1.4a hardware specs for 10.82Gbps @340MHz. Lots of marketing gibberish (oxygen-free copper, gold connectors, etc) so obviously the cable you have is an "over-achiever", especially being as it is a passive cable. I think the main reason that the cable apparently works is that the wire gauge is 26AWG (a bit thicker than most). Output signal is one thing but what the tv is actually receiving and displaying can be something different. You get picture and sound, which is good, but I have my doubts that a cable that is certified for 10.82Gbps can consistently deliver a full 18Gbps. What is even more strange is that the product description says 18Gbps but the actual specs state certification at 10.82Gbps. If it works for you then that's all that matters but it does seem suspicious. Did you receive and actual certificate of compliance?
> 
> 25' is the maximum certifiable (guaranteed) distance for passive cables and HDMI 1.4b hardware. You may be able to get away with some sort of active HDMI extender but daisy-chaining two passive cables, and then trying to achieve what you want for 40' may be difficult to do reliably. What I definitely wouldn't do is install the cable in-wall without the use of a conduit, and keep the bend radius at an absolute minimum, because you will eventually be replacing this cable.
> 
> The 50' has the same specs and their 75' is an active cable.
> 
> It does appear that the only reliable way to truly send and receive 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is with a fiber optic cable. One cable, no daisy-chaining, but it is an expensive option.


Yeah, the description and specs on the Amazon page are a bit messed up, and in conflict.

But I have been following discussion of this particular cable for the last few months, and have seen a number of posts from people using this cable (it has to be the white, "fastest" version, not the others), and they have all been successful with full 4K compatibility, 18Gbps. So in that sense, I don't think I've been "lucky." And as best I can recall, I don't remember any posts where they were unsuccessful when using this particular cable in 25' or under length. I haven't seen any reports using the 50', one way or the other.

I agree on the other matter, and really hope I can make that 25' length get the job done (and will make sure my installer uses a conduit or other means to simplify cable replacement should it come to that).


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ if it were me, I'd insist that the installer use at least a 1.5" to 2.0" conduit and I would throw in a couple of solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and not ethernet patch cable) with sufficient service loops at both ends (along with a pull string) if you decide to install an HDMI cable. That way when you have to replace the HDMI cable, and you will, at least you have solid core CAT-6a in place and all you have to do is terminate with the proper termination, either passive or ideally active.


----------



## OldZorki

Otto Pylot said:


> It does appear that the only reliable way to truly send and receive 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is with a fiber optic cable. One cable, no daisy-chaining, but it is an expensive option.


Can you recommend one? I found one on Monoprice (150 for 100 feet) and Celerity on Crutchfield (250 for 35 feet). Celerity also requires an extra USB charger, which is a bit of pain on my projector, but perhaps is better. Coming from audiophile world where really simple cables can run thousands price does not seems excessive.
Any others?


----------



## Otto Pylot

I believe Celerity is the one mentioned somewhere up in this thread so you might want to search for the post for the model number. Do keep in mind that even then, it is no guarantee for trouble-free 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz for lengths longer than about 25' - 30'. I think it would be your best option, given what's been posted but it is certainly not a 100% guarantee that it will work for your setup. Again, this is where the use of a conduit is critical and bend radius needs to be carefully considered.


----------



## Lyons07

Otto Pylot said:


> The Cabernet series of cables have worked for some, but not everyone, so it's a crapshoot. Amazon has a pretty good return policy so all you can do is try. The cable are Chinese-made TPC (tin plated copper, not solid copper) and there is no mention of who, or how they are certified, nor the wire gauge. They are active cables so installation is uni-directional, source to sink (tv). You can't damage anything if you put it in backwards, you just won't get a signal.


This one did the trick----Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 40ft. 

Thanks again, Jerry


----------



## OldZorki

Lyons07 said:


> This one did the trick----Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 40ft.
> 
> Thanks again, Jerry


Tried this cable 35 foot K8500->JVC DLA-X550R
No luck.
Worked with Roku 4K 8 bit color.

Looks like it is such hit or miss....


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## AustinJerry

alebonau said:


> looks like mono price are the first to get there with a certified premium 20ft cable,
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15431


Just received and installed the Monoprice certified hi-speed cables. Nice cables, except they are thicker and stiffer than the Redmere cables they are replacing.

I don't have a UHD player yet, so can't test them out yet. But I feel I am ready for a new player when it comes.


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## Otto Pylot

Those cable are just starting to hit the market. Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which is approved by HDMI Licensing. If they are legitimate they should come with a counterfeit-proof laser label attesting to their authenticity. If not.....


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## AustinJerry

Otto Pylot said:


> Those cable are just starting to hit the market. Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which is approved by HDMI Licensing. If they are legitimate they should come with a counterfeit-proof laser label attesting to their authenticity. If not.....


Would this be the label you are referring to? Monoprice product ID 15431.


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## Otto Pylot

Yep. Certified by a Authorized Testing Center (ATC) which is one that is approved by HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org). That's about as close as one can get for a performance guarantee, but even then, that's not 100% all of the time. Hopefully it will take the Chinese awhile before they come up with counterfeit labels . It would be interesting to scan the label and see what you get.


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## aaronwt

AustinJerry said:


> Just received and installed the Monoprice certified hi-speed cables. Nice cables, except they are thicker and stiffer than the Redmere cables they are replacing.
> 
> I don't have a UHD player yet, so can't test them out yet. But I feel I am ready for a new player when it comes.


sweet. I just ordered a dozen of these cables(3', 6', and 10') to try out since Monoprice had 10% off yesterday. But they won't show up until Friday


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## AustinJerry

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. Certified by a Authorized Testing Center (ATC) which is one that is approved by HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org). That's about as close as one can get for a performance guarantee, but even then, that's not 100% all of the time. Hopefully it will take the Chinese awhile before they come up with counterfeit labels . It would be interesting to scan the label and see what you get.


You are quite the optimist, Otto.  Here is what a scan reveals:


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## aaronwt

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. Certified by a Authorized Testing Center (ATC) which is one that is approved by HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org). That's about as close as one can get for a performance guarantee, but even then, that's not 100% all of the time. Hopefully it will take the Chinese awhile before they come up with counterfeit labels . It would be interesting to scan the label and see what you get.


I ordered the Monoprice cables because they have a lifetime warranty. I've had cables in the past get damaged somehow and cause issues. So I figure if I have any issues with these it should be easy to get Monoprice to replace them. I'll just move my Aurum and SecurOMax cables, I had been using in my UHD setup, over to my 2K setups.


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## AustinJerry

aaronwt said:


> I ordered the Monoprice cables because they have a lifetime warranty. I've had cables in the past get damaged somehow and cause issues. So I figure if I have any issues with these it should be easy to get Monoprice to replace them. I'll just move my Aurum and SecurOMax cables, I had been using in my UHD setup, over to my 2K setups.


I have yet to be unhappy with any cables I have ordered from Monoprice. I used to buy from BlueJeans, but the price differences are not insignificant, especially when ordering a large number of cables.


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## Otto Pylot

That scan is very interesting. Thanks for posting that. I too have been very satisfied with cables purchased from Monoprice. I've used BJC (which apparently has their own certification program as well or may even be part of the ATC) in the past as well with success. However, I won't use Monster or AudioQuest at all. There cables that are just as good for a lot less money.


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## Brahmzy

AustinJerry said:


> I have yet to be unhappy with any cables I have ordered from Monoprice. I used to buy from BlueJeans, but the price differences are not insignificant, especially when ordering a large number of cables.


I got bit hard by Monoprice's blatant false advertising on their early slim 18Gbps cables when I got my first 4K set over a year ago and tried to run 60hz 4:4:4 color. No go. Tried multiples of their 6ft "4K 60hz 18Gbps" cables. As soon as I swapped to slim Mediabridge slims, problem solved. Soon after, MP pulled all those falsely advertised cables. Video gamers were the only ones that could actually push 18Gbps "back then."


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## Otto Pylot

It can suck to be an early adopter. That's why a lot of us let you folks be the "testing ground"


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## Brahmzy

^^ yes. As I get older, I'm less willing to be on the bleeding, painful edge. 

Sometimes I have weak moments where I can't resist!


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## Otto Pylot

^^^ been there, done that. I feel your pain


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## TuteTibiImperes

I bought the Amazon Basics HDMI cables for my setup. They're advertised at meeting all HDMI 2.0 specs with 18gb bandwidth, though I don't have any sources that transmit that yet, so I can't test the veracity, but Amazon Basics products tend to be very high quality, and the price can't be beat.


----------



## AustinJerry

TuteTibiImperes said:


> I bought the Amazon Basics HDMI cables for my setup. They're advertised at meeting all HDMI 2.0 specs with 18gb bandwidth, though I don't have any sources that transmit that yet, so I can't test the veracity, but Amazon Basics products tend to be very high quality, and the price can't be beat.


I don't see the word "certified" in the specs. Let's see if the package has the same label as I posted earlier.


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## Otto Pylot

The specs, at least as listed on the Amazon sites are plain old HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. Any high speed HDMI cable should be able to meet the specs listed. "Up to 18Gbps" is an interesting claim without accompanying documentation. What does "up to 18Gbps" mean anyway? HDMI 2.0 specifications actually cover up to around 72Gbps so the consumer needs to be very careful when reading cable mfrs claims and not just reading what they want to read. IMO, the way hdmi cables are marketed and packaged are very misleading, taking advantage of the consumer. However, they are written by the legal departments so the wording is just short of being false advertising.


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## TuteTibiImperes

AustinJerry said:


> I don't see the word "certified" in the specs. Let's see if the package has the same label as I posted earlier.


I don't recall the packaging having that label, but from what I can tell it's a voluntary program, and Amazon isn't a fly-by-night operation. They're working fine for my satellite box and PS3 at the moment, when I eventually get a 4K source I'll be able to see if they work with that as well, I'm assuming they will as that's how they're being advertised, but if they don't I'm not out more than a few bucks as they're priced so low to begin with.


----------



## DLCPhoto

TuteTibiImperes said:


> I don't recall the packaging having that label, but from what I can tell it's a voluntary program, and Amazon isn't a fly-by-night operation. They're working fine for my satellite box and PS3 at the moment, when I eventually get a 4K source I'll be able to see if they work with that as well, I'm assuming they will as that's how they're being advertised, but if they don't I'm not out more than a few bucks as they're priced so low to begin with.


Do you have a 4K compatible receiver. pre-pro and TV or Projector? If so, you may be able to set it to output 4k/60 4:4:4 and test it out. That's what I've done with my Marantz SR7010, even though I don't have a 4K source. It upconverts to that resolution, so 'theoretically' at least, my 25' PlugLug (White, 'Fastest Version') is passing the 18Gbps test.


----------



## TuteTibiImperes

DLCPhoto said:


> Do you have a 4K compatible receiver. pre-pro and TV or Projector? If so, you may be able to set it to output 4k/60 4:4:4 and test it out. That's what I've done with my Marantz SR7010, even though I don't have a 4K source. It upconverts to that resolution, so 'theoretically' at least, my 25' PlugLug (White, 'Fastest Version') is passing the 18Gbps test.


No, the only 4K thing I have is the TV, my receiver doesn't even have HDMI. I'm waiting on a greater range of hardware options for UHD Blu-Ray before I jump in there. I figure that by the holiday season there should be several new players to choose from.


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## markrubin

great thread

I just installed a Kaleidescape Strato 4K UHD movie server and had to buy new HDMI cables for my system: the Strato is very fussy with HDMI cables (connected to Sony 940D)

their instructions call for cables tested to 18 Gbps of 26 AWG or larger, double shielded 

I also learned all port savers, extension cables, and adapters must be eliminated from the system


----------



## Vincent Kompany

TuteTibiImperes said:


> I bought the Amazon Basics HDMI cables for my setup. They're advertised at meeting all HDMI 2.0 specs with 18gb bandwidth, though I don't have any sources that transmit that yet, so I can't test the veracity, but Amazon Basics products tend to be very high quality, and the price can't be beat.


i can confirm that the latest Amazon Basics work fine, at least up to 15'. i'm been using one without issue between my K8500 and E6 OLED.


----------



## mishref

I just ordered a couple of the new Monoprice "certified premium" in various lengths (3,6 & 20). I have both the Samsung UHD player as well as a Nvidia shield (connected to a TX-NR3030 & JVC RS400); should be able to give feedback in a couple of days.


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## Otto Pylot

Vincent Kompany said:


> i can confirm that the latest Amazon Basics work fine, at least up to 15'. i'm been using one without issue between my K8500 and E6 OLED.


15' doesn't appear to be a problem for a lot of folks. It's those 20'+ runs that are causing havoc. A 26AWG cable seems to help a lot, along with an ATC certification.


----------



## LondonBenji

Got myself a Celerity 50ft cable, works perfect with 1080p but I don't have any 4k equipment to test with. If there's anyone in the San Antonio, TX that does and wants to try out this fiber cable before I put it in the walls, let me know


----------



## aaronwt

mishref said:


> I just ordered a couple of the new Monoprice "certified premium" in various lengths (3,6 & 20). I have both the Samsung UHD player as well as a Nvidia shield (connected to a TX-NR3030 & JVC RS400); should be able to give feedback in a couple of days.


I just put thirteen of those cables in my UHD setup. They are all working fine for me. Although I am using 3', 6', and 10' lengths.


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## Otto Pylot

Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables should work just fine at those distances, which are under the apparent problem distance of 20'+.


----------



## LucasTizma

I'm in this boat again. I had the LG 65EF9500. Using an adapter (UPTab Mini DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0a Active Adapter) and an HDMI cable (KabelDirekt (40 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - TOP Series), I was able to successfully output from my wide color-supported Retina 5K 27" iMac to my TV at 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 color using the ULTRA HD Deep Color setting turned on.

But my TV had some obnoxious color banding on light screens (not uncommon), so LG just went ahead and swapped it out for the newer 65" E6 OLED, which I do like much better. Now, however, my same setup won't work when I have ULTRA HD Deep Color enabled. When it's off, my TV will connect to my iMac just fine at 4K/60Hz.

Is there any reason for me to believe that this is my HDMI cable or active adapter? Importantly, is it even possible to diagnose (using some sort of tool or equipment) where the problem with the signal lies? Is it the TV, my cable, my Mini DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter, my iMac, or macOS?

Willing to buy new cables and adapters, but I hate how much of a guessing game it all is. (Probably doesn't help that I need/would like a 30-40' cable so I can run it under my rug and out of the way.)


----------



## Otto Pylot

Unless the terminology has changed with the advent of 4k (very possible), Deep Color was a feature that, while part of the HDMI spec, was not ever utilized by the tv mfrs on consumer tv's (source issues), and what you would get is the banding as you described. The fix, at least at the time, was to disable Deep Color. That terminology may have gotten muddled now that folks are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz.

It could be that your new tv doesn't recognize the signal from your iMac. If the cable and adapter worked before I don't see why they wouldn't work now. At 30'-40' you are pushing the limit a bit, especially by introducing the adapter. A passive high speed HDMI cable should be all you need. You might want to try a thicker gauge cable to see if that helps but my feeling is that it's not the cable.


----------



## danbfree

LucasTizma said:


> I'm in this boat again. I had the LG 65EF9500. Using an adapter (UPTab Mini DisplayPort 1.2 to HDMI 2.0a Active Adapter) and an HDMI cable (KabelDirekt (40 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - TOP Series), I was able to successfully output from my wide color-supported Retina 5K 27" iMac to my TV at 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 color using the ULTRA HD Deep Color setting turned on.
> 
> But my TV had some obnoxious color banding on light screens (not uncommon), so LG just went ahead and swapped it out for the newer 65" E6 OLED, which I do like much better. Now, however, my same setup won't work when I have ULTRA HD Deep Color enabled. When it's off, my TV will connect to my iMac just fine at 4K/60Hz.
> 
> Is there any reason for me to believe that this is my HDMI cable or active adapter? Importantly, is it even possible to diagnose (using some sort of tool or equipment) where the problem with the signal lies? Is it the TV, my cable, my Mini DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter, my iMac, or macOS?
> 
> Willing to buy new cables and adapters, but I hate how much of a guessing game it all is. (Probably doesn't help that I need/would like a 30-40' cable so I can run it under my rug and out of the way.)


To summarize this entire thread, it really is ALL about the distance... When you enable ULTRA HD deep color, it is enabling 4:4:4 chroma which pushes bandwidth to a full 18GBPS. So far the only certified cables are up to maybe 20 feet max... There is a solution a couple pages back where someone with an active cable was able to push a full 10m or 33 feet, but I don't believe there is anything else out there that will do 40ft...


----------



## LucasTizma

Otto Pylot said:


> Unless the terminology has changed with the advent of 4k (very possible), Deep Color was a feature that, while part of the HDMI spec, was not ever utilized by the tv mfrs on consumer tv's (source issues), and what you would get is the banding as you described. The fix, at least at the time, was to disable Deep Color. That terminology may have gotten muddled now that folks are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz.
> 
> It could be that your new tv doesn't recognize the signal from your iMac. If the cable and adapter worked before I don't see why they wouldn't work now. At 30'-40' you are pushing the limit a bit, especially by introducing the adapter. A passive high speed HDMI cable should be all you need. You might want to try a thicker gauge cable to see if that helps but my feeling is that it's not the cable.


As far as the banding, that was an issue with the panel itself. Viewing a plain white screen with UHD Deep Color OFF (or on, doesn't matter) on LG's built-in software (i.e., not via an HDMI source) still produces the banding/color tinging. That's why LG replaced my TV since it wasn't a config/input problem.

My understanding is that UHD Deep Color is just LG's branded way to say 4:4:4 chroma sampling in addition to an expanded color space. Apple's new Display P3 color space is a much-expanded color space, if I recall correctly, and macOS is able to output at 4:4:4, which is why I'm interested in getting UHD Deep Color working with it. I could be confusing some of the terminology, but the short of it is that the new 5K iMac (and the new iPad Pro) can display a much greater range of color, which seems to imply that 4:4:4 sampling is ideal to ensure there aren't posterizing artifacts in the output.

Anyway...

Would an active HDMI cable help at all? I just ordered a 50' active HDMI that claims full 18GB bandwidth up to 50'. Their 100' cable specifically does not state it supports 18GB. My assumption is that active cables and adapters are "better" than passive cables and adapters if you're close to the cable length limits. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess my only other option is to spend $250 on a fiber optic cable solution for greater lengths. :|


----------



## LucasTizma

danbfree said:


> To summarize this entire thread, it really is ALL about the distance... When you enable ULTRA HD deep color, it is enabling 4:4:4 chroma which pushes bandwidth to a full 18GBPS. So far the only certified cables are up to maybe 20 feet max... There is a solution a couple pages back where someone with an active cable was able to push a full 10m or 33 feet, but I don't believe there is anything else out there that will do 40ft...


Yeah, my gut tells me we're hitting the physical limits of copper cabling at certain lengths, which is why I guess I've started seeing very expensive fiber optic HDMI cables that seem to be taking over at non-trivial cable lengths.

I'll try this new active cable I just ordered and see if I can get 4:4:4 working again. If not, I may just have to rearrange my setup so my iMac can be placed closer to my TV.


----------



## danbfree

I found a great article on UHD Blu Ray and bandwidth needed, etc... http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

UHD Blu Ray is only 4:2:0 subsampling and even with HDR10 using 10-bit it will use less far less than 18gbps, assuming 24Hz... It also goes into the different cable certifications out there too, so it's good overview. Anyway, I fell it just goes to show that [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma really is mainly about using our display as a computer monitor for clear text for now and trying to ensure some degree of being prepared for future bandwidth needs. Does anyone even know if GoPro or other consumer grade cameras even record/output at 4k60P in 4:4:4? I'm curious about other uses as well...


----------



## LucasTizma

danbfree said:


> I found a great article on UHD Blu Ray and bandwidth needed, etc... http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/
> 
> UHD Blu Ray is only 4:2:0 subsampling and even with HDR10 using 10-bit it will use less far less than 18gbps, assuming 24Hz... It also goes into the different cable certifications out there too, so it's good overview. Anyway, I fell it just goes to show that [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma really is mainly about using our display as a computer monitor for clear text for now and trying to ensure some degree of being prepared for future bandwidth needs. Does anyone even know if GoPro or other consumer grade cameras even record/output at 4k60P in 4:4:4? I'm curious about other uses as well...


(Thanks for the link!)

Exactly. Normally, I'd say most people have absolutely no reason to strive for [email protected] 4:4:4 since content that outputs that is rare. I'm not one to get all snobby about getting the absolute "best" picture unless I actually have devices that can output to that (i.e., my iMac). For my gaming systems and Apple TV and such, they have no need for any of that stuff.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LucasTizma said:


> Yeah, my gut tells me we're hitting the physical limits of copper cabling at certain lengths, which is why I guess I've started seeing very expensive fiber optic HDMI cables that seem to be taking over at non-trivial cable lengths.
> 
> I'll try this new active cable I just ordered and see if I can get 4:4:4 working again. If not, I may just have to rearrange my setup so my iMac can be placed closer to my TV.


Cable mfrs are making all kinds of very carefully worded claims and "specs". "Up to 18Gbps" seems to get a lot of people because they see 18Gbps and assume the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC for the particular length of cable to deliver that bandwidth reliably. If you're going to go for an active cable, or passive for that matter at that distance, I'd look for one with 26AWG wire or thicker. Being as you are running your cable along the floor you won't have to worry about installing conduit so replacing the cable is easy. Do keep in mind that the thicker the cable the less flexible it is so bend radius needs to be carefully considered. Even if the cable mfr claims to have tested their cable you don't know what that means or how it was achieved. Currently, if a cable is sold as Premium High Speed HDMI it has been tested and certified by an ATC to meet HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org) specs. However, for it to be legitimate, the cable needs to come with a laser engraved, counterfeit proof label of authenticity. That's about as good as you're going to get but even then, that's not a 100% guarantee. Fiber optic does seem to be gaining a lot of favor but even that can have issues. Good luck.


----------



## LucasTizma

Thanks for the tips about the wire gauge. I'm kind of just expecting to do the Amazon HDMI cable shuffle until I find something that works (if I can). I'll go to moderate lengths to get my current setup working. After that, I'll just move the stupid computer closer and be done with it!


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## danbfree

LucasTizma said:


> Thanks for the tips about the wire gauge. I'm kind of just expecting to do the Amazon HDMI cable shuffle until I find something that works (if I can). I'll go to moderate lengths to get my current setup working. After that, I'll just move the stupid computer closer and be done with it!


There has been a lot of success with true 26awg passive cables, even cheap ones, at up to 25 feet but from there there seems to be the copper "brick wall" that you mention and even active copper cables struggle with anything past 25' as well. I'm sure we will see cheaper fiber/optical solutions as more manufacturers jump on board as there is more demand for it.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable mfrs are making all kinds of very carefully worded claims and "specs". "Up to 18Gbps" seems to get a lot of people because they see 18Gbps and assume the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC for the particular length of cable to deliver that bandwidth reliably. If you're going to go for an active cable, or passive for that matter at that distance, I'd look for one with 26AWG wire or thicker. Being as you are running your cable along the floor you won't have to worry about installing conduit so replacing the cable is easy. Do keep in mind that the thicker the cable the less flexible it is so bend radius needs to be carefully considered. Even if the cable mfr claims to have tested their cable you don't know what that means or how it was achieved. Currently, if a cable is sold as Premium High Speed HDMI it has been tested and certified by an ATC to meet HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org) specs. However, for it to be legitimate, the cable needs to come with a laser engraved, counterfeit proof label of authenticity. That's about as good as you're going to get but even then, that's not a 100% guarantee. Fiber optic does seem to be gaining a lot of favor but even that can have issues. Good luck.


"Up to 18gbps" implies it WILL support a signal up to that bandwidth, I wouldn't read into that as it might support 18gbps if you're lucky... BUT, as we have seen, that usually means at only up to 15 ft unless it is a 26awg or thicker passive cable while active 28awg may be able to do up to 10m/33 ft. Manufacturers should at least clarify at what maximum length that bandwidth is fully supported to clarify any confusion.


----------



## LucasTizma

I'm not sure how my 40' solution worked WITH Deep Color on my old TV ("old"...2015 OLED). It would drop out every now and then, but it worked really well. Just luck of the draw with the config sometimes, I guess. I'm surprised the same family OLED model from the same manufacturer would have broken that setup, though. Maybe I shouldn't be.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> "Up to 18gbps" implies it WILL support a signal up to that bandwidth, I wouldn't read into that as it might support 18gbps if you're lucky... BUT, as we have seen, that usually means at only up to 15 ft unless it is a 26awg or thicker passive cable while active 28awg may be able to do up to 10m/33 ft. Manufacturers should at least clarify at what maximum length that bandwidth is fully supported to clarify any confusion.


That's true. It does imply that, and that's what the cable mfrs are hoping for. The user will just see "18Gbps" and think they are going to get that regardless of length. The implication is given as an "out" for the mfr if the cable doesn't perform as expected. Purchasing the right cable for the right length for what you want to push has proven to be a monumental headache, and the cable mfrs know that. Which brings us back, yet again, to the certification issue, and that, in itself, is also confusing.


----------



## markrubin

I had similar issues with deep color from a Kaleidescape Strato and Samsung 8500 UHD BD player with 20 foot HDMI cable runs

My solution was to relocate the 2 sources to a shelf under the display (Sony 940D): this reduced cable length to 6 foot: much easier to make it work with short cables 
HDMI video runs direct to the Sony, not through an AVR: to me that just adds more issues
I used the 20 foot cables for the HDMI audio back to the processor


----------



## fizban11

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable mfrs are making all kinds of very carefully worded claims and "specs". "Up to 18Gbps" seems to get a lot of people because they see 18Gbps and assume the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC for the particular length of cable to deliver that bandwidth reliably. If you're going to go for an active cable, or passive for that matter at that distance, I'd look for one with 26AWG wire or thicker. Being as you are running your cable along the floor you won't have to worry about installing conduit so replacing the cable is easy. Do keep in mind that the thicker the cable the less flexible it is so bend radius needs to be carefully considered. Even if the cable mfr claims to have tested their cable you don't know what that means or how it was achieved. Currently, if a cable is sold as Premium High Speed HDMI it has been tested and certified by an ATC to meet HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org) specs. However, for it to be legitimate, the cable needs to come with a laser engraved, counterfeit proof label of authenticity. That's about as good as you're going to get but even then, that's not a 100% guarantee. Fiber optic does seem to be gaining a lot of favor but even that can have issues. Good luck.


Otto and company, hope you are well.

Has anyone tried the Monoprice #14234 ?

As far as I can tell, there is no premium certification, but it is described as [email protected] and is an active optical cable terminated with HDMI, very similar to the Celerity brand. This cable at 75ft is $129.99 so it's not cheap, but it's cheaper than the 40ft Celerity @$200-$220 so it may end up being a possibility for those of us needing more than a 20ft length in-wall solution.


----------



## salavs

Interestingly, the cl2 rated version of a very similar looking cable is advertised as [email protected] and 10.2gbps:

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pro...categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024018&cpncd=


----------



## Otto Pylot

fizban11 - optical cables seem to be a bit more reliable so give it a try. Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can lose is a bit of time.

salavs - 10.2Gbps is pretty standard for high speed hdmi cables. It is within the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec and some tv mfrs were claiming an HDMI 1.4 firmware upgrade to HDMI 2.0. But all they were doing was upping the clock speed from 8.91Gbps (HDMI 1.4 hardware spec) to 10.2Gbps, which is the overlap area between HDMI 1.4 and 2.0, but they could claim HDMI 2.0 hardware spec.


----------



## OldZorki

fizban11 said:


> Otto and company, hope you are well.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Monoprice #14234 ?
> 
> As far as I can tell, there is no premium certification, but it is described as [email protected] and is an active optical cable terminated with HDMI, very similar to the Celerity brand. This cable at 75ft is $129.99 so it's not cheap, but it's cheaper than the 40ft Celerity @$200-$220 so it may end up being a possibility for those of us needing more than a 20ft length in-wall solution.


The benefit over Celerity that it apperently uses just HDMI power, and do not need USB power supply - headache for some projector installations. But I am not sure they can do full 18G.


----------



## Dreamliner

I'm going 4K!

Anyone have a recommendation for a cable that will work at 25'? I'll be coming directly from the K8500. I'm not sure what to get...

I found these so far while browsing:
https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A3HQ
https://www.amazon.com/PlugLug-HD-600-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable/dp/B00WHEBA5G

This is what I have now:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024015&p_id=3657&seq=1&format=2




alebonau said:


> http://www.kordz.com/prs-long-hdmi-cables.htm


Where did you buy yours? I need a 25' cable and the only one I found from them was over $250!


----------



## alebonau

Dreamliner said:


> I'm going 4K!
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation for a cable that will work at 25'? I'll be coming directly from the K8500. I'm not sure what to get...
> 
> ~
> 
> Where did you buy yours? I need a 25' cable and the only one I found from them was over $250!


the shop down the road...there are few shops around me that sell the brand...I am in a different country though ...so can walk in a store to buy one 

as a general rule we dont pay list price here, retailers are very helpful that way !

its an aussie brand not sure how well represented or priced where you are. they have been around many years though and presenting a paper at cedia I understand so perhaps if there can poke them as to pricing availability etc


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> I'm going 4K!
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation for a cable that will work at 25'? I'll be coming directly from the K8500. I'm not sure what to get...
> 
> I found these so far while browsing:
> https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A3HQ
> https://www.amazon.com/PlugLug-HD-600-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable/dp/B00WHEBA5G
> 
> This is what I have now:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024015&p_id=3657&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you buy yours? I need a 25' cable and the only one I found from them was over $250!


The PlugLug cable is certified by an ATC but only at 10.2Gbps. The wire is 28AWG but if you're going to push the higher video standards that may require 18Gbps then a thicker wire (26AWG) for a passive cable is suggested, even at 25'.

The KableDirekt cable also claims ATC certification but they don't specify to which HDMI hardware protocol, 1.4 or 2.0. Oxygen Free Copper and gold plating doesn't much in terms of what you can actually see or hear.

The Commercial cable is also rated for 10.2Gbps and while that is part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec, it's not the 18Gbps that you need for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz (which seems to be what everyone wants now). However, it is a 22AWG wire so that is fairly thick. The downside of a thick cable is loss of flexibility and bend radius is a concern as well.

The Kordz cable is an active cable and claims it is a Licensed HDMI 2.0 Adopter company. That could just mean it has adopted the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs but doesn't necessarily mean the cables have been certified by an ATC for given lengths, and the certified data rate is given as 10.2Gbps. The wire gauge is 28AWG so they are thin cables. They do claim 18Gbps in their specs but no mention of being certified at that bandwidth. The cable may perform at those specs but is that in a straight line using pattern generators or in a more real live scenario?


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> I'm going 4K!
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation for a cable that will work at 25'? I'll be coming directly from the K8500. I'm not sure what to get...
> 
> I found these so far while browsing:
> https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A3HQ
> https://www.amazon.com/PlugLug-HD-600-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable/dp/B00WHEBA5G
> 
> This is what I have now:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024015&p_id=3657&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you buy yours? I need a 25' cable and the only one I found from them was over $250!


The KabelDirect didn't work for me, only did [email protected] Now what worked is the WHITE 25' PlugLug. You'll notice that color has the dumb "Fastest version" description but something about that is true as people have tried other colors of the 25' PlugLug and it didn't work. Sadly it is sold out right now, I think that is because word got out that they were the only cheap 25' that worked in full 4k60p w/4:4:4.

Edit: Try what you have now, at 22awg that is very thick it may work, the white 25' PlugLug that works for me is 26awg, which is better than most cables that are 28awg. The thicker ones carry the signal a little better. Remember, what Otto says is all true, what the cable has been *certified* at is one way to look at it, BUT, a BIG BUT, MANY companies don't bother certifying older cables so good quality older models may very well work.


----------



## Dreamliner

I know it sounds like blasphemy, but the 25' Amazon Basics HDMI cable has pretty stellar reviews for people using 4K, 60Hz 444....


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> I know it sounds like blasphemy, but the 25' Amazon Basics HDMI cable has pretty stellar reviews for people using 4K, 60Hz 444....


Nothing blasphemy about it, the good newer ones were just out of stock for a while, that would be a great choice to get now.


----------



## Dreamliner

danbfree said:


> Nothing blasphemy about it, the good newer ones were just out of stock for a while, that would be a great choice to get now.


Ok great. I'll get the Amazon Basics one then. Seems like the best chance of it working.


----------



## jaqb

Dreamliner said:


> I know it sounds like blasphemy, but the amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-Standard/dp/B014I8TC4E 25' Amazon Basics HDMI cable has pretty stellar reviews for people using 4K, 60Hz 444....


I have read all amazon reviews for this cable and not one confirms this.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> ~
> 
> The Kordz cable is an active cable and claims it is a Licensed HDMI 2.0 Adopter company. That could just mean it has adopted the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs but doesn't necessarily mean the cables have been certified by an ATC for given lengths, and the certified data rate is given as 10.2Gbps. The wire gauge is 28AWG so they are thin cables. They do claim 18Gbps in their specs but no mention of being certified at that bandwidth. The cable may perform at those specs but is that in a straight line using pattern generators or in a more real live scenario?




ummm...

lets see.... it works perfectly fine no synch issues, no glitches, no drop outs ... no sparkles... no drop outs ... 

instead .... guess what 

13 uhd-blu-rays played through so far.... faultlessly ..... is that real life enough for you 

and yes this is with a 10m kordz prs cable. 

it was guaranteed to me by the maker to work, and guess what it actually has so far


----------



## jaqb

alebonau said:


> 13 uhd-blu-rays played through so far.... faultlessly ..... is that real life enough for you


As far as I know uhd-blurays are 4:2:0 not 4:4:4.


----------



## alebonau

jaqb said:


> As far as I know uhd-blurays are 4:2:0 not 4:4:4.


incase you missed it ... I was responding to someone looking for cable to hook up their samsung k8500 *UHD Blu-ray* Player 

:kiss:


----------



## jaqb

alebonau said:


> incase you missed it ... I was responding to someone looking for cable to hook up their samsung k8500 *UHD Blu-ray* Player
> 
> :kiss:


Yeah sorry, I missed it. I was only looking at the topic of this thread.


----------



## alebonau

jaqb said:


> Yeah sorry, I missed it. I was only looking at the topic of this thread.


no problem 

i was really only responding since I know full well what a challenge it actually is to do what seems a simple task ...to view uhd blu-rays when a cable e.g. 25-35 foot long is needed. to the point when I actually posted in here asking ... all I got in response was ... nothing... had to find out for myself. fortunate I guess the first thing I was told would work when went looking for myself ..indeed did. if I can help someone with that...I will ...without really caring what the thread title might be


----------



## markrubin

reading this thread makes me recall the good old days of component video cables: they did not require a handshake, they were robust, long cable runs were not a concern....they just worked 

and now it seems the HDMI group stays up late at night to make it more and more difficult, if not impossible, to get their product to work properly


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> ummm...
> 
> lets see.... it works perfectly fine no synch issues, no glitches, no drop outs ... no sparkles... no drop outs ...
> 
> instead .... guess what
> 
> 13 uhd-blu-rays played through so far.... faultlessly ..... is that real life enough for you
> 
> and yes this is with a 10m kordz prs cable.
> 
> it was guaranteed to me by the maker to work, and guess what it actually has so far


No sense in getting snarky about it. The point is that there are no guarantees that the same cable will work for everyone in their setup, regardless of mfr claims. All one can do is try and return if they don't get the results they expected or wanted. I'm glad the cable worked for you. You're more lucky than most. But then again, you're only at 30'.


----------



## Dreamliner

I'm nervous to use an active cable. I think those IC chips are just something waiting to burn out. 

I'm okay spending some money to get the right cable. Hopefully I'm making the right choice with that Amazon Basics...


----------



## jaqb

Dreamliner said:


> Hopefully I'm making the right choice with that Amazon Basics...


25 ft. cable right ? Please let us know if you were able to get [email protected] at 4:4:4


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> I'm nervous to use an active cable. I think those IC chips are just something waiting to burn out.
> 
> I'm okay spending some money to get the right cable. Hopefully I'm making the right choice with that Amazon Basics...


Chipset failure is a possibility with the active cables even though I have not seen any reports yet of a proven chip failure. However, they are like any other electronic device so failure is a possibility. That's why we recommend using a conduit for long runs that are installed in-wall. It makes replacing cables so much easier, and, that is really the only way to "future-proof" your cabling. With the use of conduit, a lot of folks will install a couple of solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and not ethernet patch cable) cables for extending an ethernet or HDMI connection. You will probably have to actively terminate the cables for HDMI but that is a bit more reliable than using an HDMI cable. However, you may get lucky with your HDMI cable selection. It is still very much a crap-shoot for most, especially for runs that are past the magical 25'.

If you are intent on using a passive cable (nothing wrong with that), then I'd look for an ATC certified passive High Speed HDMI cable with a thicker gauge wire (26AWG for example). There will be a bit of flexibility lost so be mindful of bend radius and increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


----------



## Dreamliner

Otto Pylot said:


> Chipset failure is a possibility with the active cables even though I have not seen any reports yet of a proven chip failure. However, they are like any other electronic device so failure is a possibility. That's why we recommend using a conduit for long runs that are installed in-wall. It makes replacing cables so much easier, and, that is really the only way to "future-proof" your cabling. With the use of conduit, a lot of folks will install a couple of solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and not ethernet patch cable) cables for extending an ethernet or HDMI connection. You will probably have to actively terminate the cables for HDMI but that is a bit more reliable than using an HDMI cable. However, you may get lucky with your HDMI cable selection. It is still very much a crap-shoot for most, especially for runs that are past the magical 25'.
> 
> If you are intent on using a passive cable (nothing wrong with that), then I'd look for an ATC certified passive High Speed HDMI cable with a thicker gauge wire (26AWG for example). There will be a bit of flexibility lost so be mindful of bend radius and increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


I think certifications end at 15'.

The cable I have now is not very bendable either so that's no problem. Everyone likes a long sweeping curve, am I right? 

Barring a "I have this cable and it works great" link, I'll probably just get that Amazon Basics. I haven't really seen anything else stand out.


----------



## danbfree

jaqb said:


> I have read all amazon reviews for this cable and not one confirms this.


The product description fully states this... So if it doesn't work, it is a 100% free pick up return so there is zero risk in trying a $12.99 cable: 

* Meets HDMI 2.0 standards (4K Video at 60 Hz, 2160p, 48 bit/px color depth) that supports bandwidth up to 18Gbps and backwards compatible with earlier versions
* Cable Length: 25 feet (7.6 meters); Backed by AmazonBasics Lifetime warranty


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> I think certifications end at 15'.
> 
> The cable I have now is not very bendable either so that's no problem. Everyone likes a long sweeping curve, am I right?
> 
> Barring a "I have this cable and it works great" link, I'll probably just get that Amazon Basics. I haven't really seen anything else stand out.


Ya, try the Amazon Basics, unfortunately the white 25ft PlugLug that absolutely works for me at a full 18gbps is no longer available.


----------



## Dreamliner

danbfree said:


> Ya, try the Amazon Basics, unfortunately the white 25ft PlugLug that absolutely works for me at a full 18gbps is no longer available.


Isn't the white one just a different color than the grey one? I know people have had better luck with the white one, but did it actually have a better spec or just a higher quality manufacturing run?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> I think certifications end at 15'.


The actual length for ATC calibrated cables utilizing the higher video standards hasn't actually been determined yet, but some Premium High Speed HDMI cables are working fine longer than 25' 25' was (is) the maximum cable length for ATC certification for the HDMI 1.4 hardware spec, and seems to be the max for pushing the higher video standards for passive cables, at least as has been reported here. That's why we refer to 25' as the magical length.


----------



## Dreamliner

jaqb said:


> I have read all amazon reviews for this cable and not one confirms this.


I bought it the Amazon Basics 25 footer, I'll know for sure in a couple days.

Best way to test? 4K 60Hz 4:4:4?


----------



## jaqb

Dreamliner said:


> I bought it the Amazon Basics 25 footer, I'll know for sure in a couple days.


Nice. This cable is also available in Europe. Would be awesome if it worked.


Dreamliner said:


> Best way to test? 4K 60Hz 4:4:4?


To test this you first need to set it correctly in your video card settings. First you set display resolution at 3840x2160, then refresh rate at 60Hz then finally color format at YCbCr 4:4:4. After you apply these settings and the screen is black, it means cable doesn't work as we hoped. If the screen turns on, don't celebrate yet, you need to check if there are no sparkling pixels, weird lines or no screen flickering. If any of this is present the cable doesn't work at full data rate of 18 Gbit/s (or not stable enough). 
Hopefully the screen will look good and then if you want to test if the screen actually displays in 4:4:4 you can check this post


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> Isn't the white one just a different color than the grey one? I know people have had better luck with the white one, but did it actually have a better spec or just a higher quality manufacturing run?


Good question, for some reason only the white one has the "fastest version" designation, and each color is it's own model number per se: The black is the HD-1000, the grey is the HD-600, so it appears the white is a legitimate step up from even the HD-1000 but is poorly marketed.


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> I bought it the Amazon Basics 25 footer, I'll know for sure in a couple days.
> 
> Best way to test? 4K 60Hz 4:4:4?


Also, if you have a Shield it has 4:4:4 with the new update... but the Shield or GTX 9X0+ video card (as the other person explained the process for) is the only other way that I know of to test specifically.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> Good question, for some reason only the white one has the "fastest version" designation, and each color is it's own model number per se: The black is the HD-1000, the grey is the HD-600, so it appears the white is a legitimate step up from even the HD-1000 but is poorly marketed.


"Fastest version" means absolutely nothing. Is it tested, and if so, how? Is it certified, and if so, by whom? All market-speak. More related to materials used than actual quality. If it works for you that's great! My guess is that there is a wide range of reliability from cable to cable.


----------



## danbfree

There has been discussion elsewhere and here already, we know that they aren't certified in any way... But for those of us who simply are tired of hearing about the premium certification and just want a cable that works for cheap, we look into it closer and these clues all lead up to the fact that they are different models: firstly, among a number of people, it has been seen that the white one seems to work while the other colors do not. Along with that, only certain lengths of the white one are specifically labeled as "version 2.0 fastest version" and they work. While other ones that don't mention that have not worked. Like i have said before, I know those words do not guarantee anything officially but in determining which PlugLug to buy that works, it's a pretty good .Again, for many of us, we are enthusiasts on a budget and prefer not to spend a lot when we don't have to. I can respect the certified options but sometimes, especially with cables, refuse to spend a bunch of money they dont have to. So lets not overly dissect things, repeatedly, that ends up coming off a little snobby all because we don't want to spend $200 plus on a solution for only 25 feet when the job can be done for under $15. With savings such as that and barely anything out there really working at all, at any price range, it's worth trying one, like the amazon basics or the PlugLug when it's completely risk free. 

tl;dr: lay off questioning the cheap cables so much, Otto. We've been through this before and when a little research and group knowledge can come up with a cheap solution, the more power to us.


----------



## Otto Pylot

One of the points of AVS is to share knowledge and education. A lot of folks come here who haven't a clue and are willing to spend whatever the cable cost is based on "specs' given, and then are disappointed when they can't achieve what they wanted and wonder if it's their equipment.

Cheap is cheap, and relative to the buyer. You may get lucky but someone else won't. Education is the key so that's why we mention the various issues with "cheap" cables and mfr claims.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> One of the points of AVS is to share knowledge and education. A lot of folks come here who haven't a clue and are willing to spend whatever the cable cost is based on "specs' given, and then are disappointed when they can't achieve what they wanted and wonder if it's their equipment.
> 
> Cheap is cheap, and relative to the buyer. You may get lucky but someone else won't. Education is the key so that's why we mention the various issues with "cheap" cables and mfr claims.


I understand, group knowledge is great and you've been a great source of info, but at a certain point we have to just not rain on others parade, so to speak. With so little good info out there we have to rely on each other to get around the BS on the high-end too, With Amazon, if they claim something and it doesn't work, you are out zero money. I'd rather try a random $15 that makes the claim and when it doesn't work, no big deal either, just more knowledge to share.


----------



## Dreamliner

Otto Pylot said:


> One of the points of AVS is to share knowledge and education. A lot of folks come here who haven't a clue and are willing to spend whatever the cable cost is based on "specs' given, and then are disappointed when they can't achieve what they wanted and wonder if it's their equipment.
> 
> Cheap is cheap, and relative to the buyer. You may get lucky but someone else won't. Education is the key so that's why we mention the various issues with "cheap" cables and mfr claims.


What 25' cable would you buy for 4K?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> What 25' cable would you buy for 4K?


Without sounding like an @ss, define 4k. 4:4:4 @ 60Hz, HDR, Dolby Vision, HDR10? At 25' or under, most passive High Speed HDMI cables will meet most of the HDMI 2.0a hardware specs. It all depends on what you want, your setup, and your cable distance. There are no easy or pat answers.


----------



## Dreamliner

Otto Pylot said:


> Without sounding like an @ss, define 4k. 4:4:4 @ 60Hz, HDR, Dolby Vision, HDR10? At 25' or under, most passive High Speed HDMI cables will meet most of the HDMI 2.0a hardware specs. It all depends on what you want, your setup, and your cable distance. There are no easy or pat answers.


I want a 25' cable to connect a Samsung 8500 to a JVS RS400 and play 4K HDR Blu-rays, and 4K HDR Streaming (60Hz). I want zero drop outs or sparkles. Reply with link.

If you need more information, make an assumption, provide a link and tell me the assumption you made.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> I understand, group knowledge is great and you've been a great source of info, but at a certain point we have to just not rain on others parade, so to speak. With so little good info out there we have to rely on each other to get around the BS on the high-end too, With Amazon, if they claim something and it doesn't work, you are out zero money. I'd rather try a random $15 that makes the claim and when it doesn't work, no big deal either, just more knowledge to share.


Agreed. That's why we say it's all trial and error ( a crapshoot). If a cable works for your particular needs, then post it and others may find that useful. But for the newbies, warnings and caveats are warranted in hopes that some will not be so frustrated and think their new, very expensive tv is faulty.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> I want a 25' cable to connect a Samsung 8500 to a JVS RS400 and play 4K HDR Blu-rays, and 4K HDR Streaming (60Hz). I want zero drop outs or sparkles. Reply with link.
> 
> If you need more information, make an assumption, provide a link and tell me the assumption you made.


Good luck. There are some reporting excellent results with fiber optic cables, such as Celerity. You just need to look around and see what works best for you. What you want is a perfect connection and that may not be quite attainable, yet.


----------



## Dreamliner

Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck. There are some reporting excellent results with fiber optic cables, such as Celerity. You just need to look around and see what works best for you. What you want is a perfect connection and that may not be quite attainable, yet.


I saw no link. Your earlier post makes it seem like this thread is full of a bunch of uneducated newbies looking for the cheapest cable when in reality we just can't find the right one. I want one that works reliably. 

No link means you don't have a clue, either. 

Welcome to the club. 

Any effective rebuttal requires a link to a purchase-able product.


----------



## danbfree

Dreamliner said:


> I saw no link. Your earlier post makes it seem like this thread is full of a bunch of uneducated newbies looking for the cheapest cable when in reality we just can't find the right one. I want one that works reliably.
> 
> No link means you don't have a clue, either.
> 
> Welcome to the club.
> 
> Any effective rebuttal requires a link to a purchase-able product.


To be fair to Otto, I think he means because of that particular player, it's much pickier about the connection. In general, the GTX 9x0 series and up seem a little better at establishing a clean connection, but not true of them all... After reading through just this whole thread among other sources, 25ft passive cables can be had for cheap that will work with most of the GeForce cards while the 4k Blu Ray can't send as strong a signal from it's HDMI out.


----------



## salavs

Question on the Samsung 8500, won't it mostly be pumping out 24fps signal from film content? Is there [email protected] content available on uhd Bluray? If it's mostly 24fps then bandwidth requirements are much lower aren't they?

I personally use the 40ft monoprice luxe cl3 from my AVR (marantz sr6010) to my tv (Sony x940d) and a smaller rocketfish branded cable for player to AVR connection. I get stable performance on uhd Bluray with hdr.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> I saw no link. Your earlier post makes it seem like this thread is full of a bunch of uneducated newbies looking for the cheapest cable when in reality we just can't find the right one. I want one that works reliably.
> 
> No link means you don't have a clue, either.
> 
> Welcome to the club.
> 
> Any effective rebuttal requires a link to a purchase-able product.


There is no link because I'm not going to refer a cable to someone that I don't know for sure is going to work for their situation. That's the point of the discussions here. Be careful of mft claims, use your common sense, and just try what you think will work for you. If it doesn't, we've discussed the possible reasons why.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> To be fair to Otto, I think he means because of that particular player, it's much pickier about the connection. In general, the GTX 9x0 series and up seem a little better at establishing a clean connection, but not true of them all... After reading through just this whole thread among other sources, 25ft passive cables can be had for cheap that will work with most of the GeForce cards while the 4k Blu Ray can't send as strong a signal from it's HDMI out.


I can agree with that. But he apparently just wants someone to give him a link to a cable that is guaranteed to work for him in his situation. If reasons are given as why a particular cable may not work, he gets upset. Some people just don't want to hear advice or suggestions if it's counter to what they want. Look at the trouble you went thru to find a cable ( and I don't mean to infer that you were argumentative or disagreeable).


----------



## markrubin

point of order

members are here to help others

please do not challenge another member trying to help

move on please


----------



## Dreamliner

If anyone has actual experience or reference regarding a 25 foot cable that will work with the Samsung 8500 for UHD HDR Blu-rays and UHD HDR 60 fps streaming, please contribute.



salavs said:


> Question on the Samsung 8500, won't it mostly be pumping out 24fps signal from film content? Is there [email protected] content available on uhd Bluray? If it's mostly 24fps then bandwidth requirements are much lower aren't they?
> 
> I personally use the 40ft monoprice luxe cl3 from my AVR (marantz sr6010) to my tv (Sony x940d) and a smaller rocketfish branded cable for player to AVR connection. I get stable performance on uhd Bluray with hdr.


The menus and Netflix are at 60fps. With my 25' 22AWG Monoprice cable I was getting dropouts almost right away. (I bought it in 2011 but the product page for it now states even it supports 4K. A little light details about 4K, though.)

I wonder if the output from the AVR is stronger than the K8500, which would explain a lot.


----------



## netroamer

Dreamliner said:


> If anyone has actual experience or reference regarding a 25 foot cable that will work with the Samsung 8500 for UHD HDR Blu-rays and UHD HDR 60 fps streaming, please contribute.
> 
> 
> The menus and Netflix are at 60fps. With my 25' 22AWG Monoprice cable I was getting dropouts almost right away. (I bought it in 2011 but the product page for it now states even it supports 4K. A little light details about 4K, though.)
> 
> I wonder if the output from the AVR is stronger than the K8500, which would explain a lot.


I use a 40' Monoprice Cabernet active cable (New Version) and have tested it with a Murideo cable tester and it passed the 18ghz test. It works fine with the 8500 directly to my Sony VW5000ES.


----------



## dalec

A 50ft Celerity cable worked with my LG 65E6 and a GTX 970 at 4k60 4:4:4. I wasn't able to test the Shield since it has a firmware bug in HDMI sync with the LG.

Despite being an active cable the Celerity has removable ends which can be easily replaced if problems occur and hopefully be updated for future specifications. Which makes it quite valuable for in wall installation.

Good luck!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I had mentioned Celerity back in post #683 as to a cable that some are having good luck with. No link was posted because they are Googleable (if that's such a word).


----------



## Joe Fernand

Another vote for the Celerity Technologies Fibre HDMI 'mostly' working.

Dreamliner - if you want a guarantee move the kit closer together! 

All devices have tolerances, combine three devices at the bottom end of the tolerance range and your experience may be different to someone with the same kit but not 'on the edge'.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mishref

FWIW, I just installed 2 of the Monoprice Certified cables at 20' - no issues pushing a 10bit signal from Samsung k8500 to JVC RS400U (directly). Also has no issues with the Nvidia Shield (18gbps active slim - 6') > Onkyo TX-NR3030 > Monoprice Certified 20' > JVC RS400U also worked fine at 4K (but couldn't test HDR).

Going to upgrade my netflix account to UHD and see if I can get any content to stream at 4K to the JVC (through Onkyo).


----------



## Dreamliner

mishref said:


> FWIW, I just installed 2 of the Monoprice Certified cables at 20' - no issues pushing a 10bit signal from Samsung k8500 to JVC RS400U (directly). Also has no issues with the Nvidia Shield (18gbps active slim - 6') > Onkyo TX-NR3030 > Monoprice Certified 20' > JVC RS400U also worked fine at 4K (but couldn't test HDR).
> 
> Going to upgrade my netflix account to UHD and see if I can get any content to stream at 4K to the JVC (through Onkyo).


Which cable did you get? I might be able to get away with a 20 footer.


----------



## mishref

Dreamliner said:


> Which cable did you get? I might be able to get away with a 20 footer.


From Monoprice:

Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft - PID: 15431

At 15$, it's much cheaper than some of the options out there.



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Dreamliner

mishref said:


> From Monoprice:
> 
> Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft - PID: 15431
> 
> At 15$, it's much cheaper than some of the options out there.


HOT DOG! I went up to my wall plate pass through and pulled real hard. Came up with just over 5 extra feet. 

I thought they only had that in the shorter cable. My Amazon Basic cable shows up tomorrow, so I should be able to test it and still get the Monoprice one on-sale if it doesn't work.

I'll only have the K8500 to test it with, hopefully I can do some HDR streaming or something to take test it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mishref said:


> From Monoprice:
> 
> Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, 20ft - PID: 15431
> 
> At 15$, it's much cheaper than some of the options out there.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable is what you want. Make sure that the cable comes with a little laser imprinted tag that authenticates the cable as being certified (by an ATC). If it doesn't, caveat emptor.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> HOT DOG! I went up to my wall plate pass through and pulled real hard. Came up with just over 5 extra feet.


That's good news, but be wary of bend radius cause you don't know what that extra 5' did. Sounds like a nice service loop was installed. A drastic bend radius will eventually wreck havoc. Sure hope it works for you.


----------



## Dreamliner

Otto Pylot said:


> That's good news, but be wary of bend radius cause you don't know what that extra 5' did. Sounds like a nice service loop was installed. A drastic bend radius will eventually wreck havoc. Sure hope it works for you.


The HDMI cable (with a long power cord and network cable) goes from a shelf with my projector through a wall plate pass-through, then through part of a soffit to another room then bundles with all the other home theater cables and goes into my rack. I probably just shoved the extra cable in the soffit when I installed it in 2011.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable is what you want. Make sure that the cable comes with a little laser imprinted tag that authenticates the cable as being certified (by an ATC). If it doesn't, caveat emptor.


Take a look, looks like it has the tag: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

And at up to "only" 20ft, I'm sure they couldn't certify them past that length so seems legit. Yep it's ATC, scroll down in the description. It's great to see certified cables at good prices, but, dang, I really need at least 5 ft. longer.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dreamliner said:


> The HDMI cable (with a long power cord and network cable) goes from a shelf with my projector through a wall plate pass-through, then through part of a soffit to another room then bundles with all the other home theater cables and goes into my rack. I probably just shoved the extra cable in the soffit when I installed it in 2011.


Excellent!


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> Take a look, looks like it has the tag: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
> 
> And at up to "only" 20ft, I'm sure they couldn't certify them past that length so seems legit. Yep it's ATC, scroll down in the descrption.


That's good. Too bad it's only for 20' but that may change down the road.


----------



## jaqb

Dreamliner said:


> My Amazon Basic cable shows up tomorrow, so I should be able to test it


And did it work at [email protected] at 4:4:4?


----------



## Dreamliner

jaqb said:


> And did it work at [email protected] at 4:4:4?


I don't think I have the ability to test it. But it works for UHD discs just fine. It sounds like I need a PC and I sold my 970 while waiting for a deal on a 1070. At the moment, I just have a 750Ti....will that work?

I also bought some of those 20' Monoprice Certified cables, they're on the way.


----------



## jaqb

Dreamliner said:


> I don't think I have the ability to test it. But it works for UHD discs just fine. It sounds like I need a PC and I sold my 970 while waiting for a deal on a 1070. At the moment, I just have a 750Ti....will that work?
> 
> I also bought some of those 20' Monoprice Certified cables, they're on the way.


750Ti won't work because it doesn't have hdmi 2.0 output. I'm 99% sure this 20 ft. monoprice cable will work for you with [email protected] at 4:4:4, but I'm more interested in that 25 ft. cable from amazon as I can't go shorter than 25'.


----------



## AllenA07

danbfree said:


> Take a look, looks like it has the tag: http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
> 
> And at up to "only" 20ft, I'm sure they couldn't certify them past that length so seems legit. Yep it's ATC, scroll down in the description. It's great to see certified cables at good prices, but, dang, I really need at least 5 ft. longer.


At that price I'm going to take the gamble on this cable. If it works great, if it doesn't I'll look into more expensive options.


----------



## nonstopdoc1

netroamer said:


> I use a 40' Monoprice Cabernet active cable (New Version) and have tested it with a Murideo cable tester and it passed the 18ghz test. It works fine with the 8500 directly to my Sony VW5000ES.


Thanks a lot!!

I just ordered this cable (35')and have been searching for some real world experience. Your reply is very reassuring. Have you noticed any other issue since then.


----------



## netroamer

nonstopdoc1 said:


> Thanks a lot!!
> 
> I just ordered this cable (35')and have been searching for some real world experience. Your reply is very reassuring. Have you noticed any other issue since then.


I posted in the 5000 thread that I have noticed a randomly reoccurring slight stutter/judder in the video from both the inputs. Input one is a direct feed from the Samsung 8500, two is from the Radiance Pro. No one else seemed to notice this. I thought it may be corrected in the recent 5000 firmware release, however that did not happen.The common denominator is the two identical Monoprice cables. I am receiving a Celerity Fiber Optic cable for test in the next couple of days. I will test this for 18ghz and then figure a way to temporarily pull it from the equipment room to the projector. If the stutter/judder stops, I will post the results.


----------



## bpmurr

Dreamliner said:


> I don't think I have the ability to test it. But it works for UHD discs just fine. It sounds like I need a PC and I sold my 970 while waiting for a deal on a 1070. At the moment, I just have a 750Ti....will that work?
> 
> I also bought some of those 20' Monoprice Certified cables, they're on the way.


I bought the 3, 6 and 20ft cables to try. I'm getting a lot of audio drops from the ones the wiring company used in my new house


----------



## Brymo

Quick question, and sorry if it's an obvious answer...

I have the wall plate HDMI ports in my room. Are those female to female couplers okay to mix with the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable? Or would I need to swap those out (is that even possible?)?

I like having a clean coupler on the wall and would rather have that then a cable just coming out of a hole. 

Thanks!


----------



## DLCPhoto

Brymo said:


> Quick question, and sorry if it's an obvious answer...
> 
> I have the wall plate HDMI ports in my room. Are those female to female couplers okay to mix with the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable? Or would I need to swap those out (is that even possible?)?
> 
> I like having a clean coupler on the wall and would rather have that then a cable just coming out of a hole.
> 
> Thanks!


Nothing is for certain until you try it out with the particular hardware you have (cables and connector), but it's hard enough getting these things to work without a connector, so I wouldn't be optimistic about being able to use a connector in the wall plate.

I had a similar inclination, wanting to have as clean an install as possible, and my plan was to use this Keystone Insert. I used a knife to cut one side, and could then fit it around the cable. This would keep it as 'clean' as possible, but avoid a possible problem.

I ended up running mine through a raceway on the wall, rather than through the wall (long story), but that's the way I would go if going through the wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. There are so many issues now with running even the ATC certified cables over distances longer than about 25' that anything that you put in the path, a coupler for example, may affect the quality of the signal. Depending on the cable length and what you want to push I would just try it and see what happens, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work reliably.


----------



## ereed

Monoprice luxe series (for walls) or the ultra thin redmere should work nicely. Both are Certified high speed and rated at 18gbps and they say they support 4K at 60fps with 4:4:4. Worth a try!


----------



## salavs

FWIW, I've been using the Monoprice Luxe CL3 40ft (item #13759). I have tested with 4:4:4 output enabled on my Samsung 8500 UHD BR player. Others were reporting that they had trouble getting the menu system to display reliably with various cables and hence this was a useful test to run. In my case it works consistently using this cable. I must admit I have not had the opportunity to do a "long term" test, e.g. play a movie end to end and ensure the connection stays consistent throughout without any dropouts etc. I have on the other hand run plenty of content via my SHIELD which is doing [email protected], but not 4:4:4. I will be doing extensive testing with 4:4:4 soon and will report back.

I also had to get wires installed in wall and did not have the luxury of retrofitting conduit, so for insurance, I wired the Monoprice Luxe as well as the Celerity DFO-40P to both my TV and projector. Hopefully one of these two will work out in the "medium term" 

For completeness, my device chain looks like:

Samsung 8500 -> Marantz SR6010 -> TV, Projector

The Marantz has dual HDMI out. Currently I have the Monoprice wires connected, with the Celerity lying idle.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ereed said:


> Monoprice luxe series (for walls) or the ultra thin redmere should work nicely. Both are Certified high speed and rated at 18gbps and they say they support 4K at 60fps with 4:4:4. Worth a try!


At what distance?


----------



## danbfree

Brymo said:


> Quick question, and sorry if it's an obvious answer...
> 
> I have the wall plate HDMI ports in my room. Are those female to female couplers okay to mix with the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable? Or would I need to swap those out (is that even possible?)?
> 
> I like having a clean coupler on the wall and would rather have that then a cable just coming out of a hole.
> 
> Thanks!


Just to add to the last excellent response, I'd make sure you kept both the cables (premium on both sides) absolutely as short as possible, even with a high speed connector it could degrade the signal slightly.


----------



## markrubin

Brymo said:


> Quick question, and sorry if it's an obvious answer...
> 
> I have the wall plate HDMI ports in my room. Are those female to female couplers okay to mix with the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable? Or would I need to swap those out (is that even possible?)?
> 
> I like having a clean coupler on the wall and would rather have that then a cable just coming out of a hole.
> 
> Thanks!


in my opinion they are *not *OK to mix with certified cables

I used to recommend the use of HDMI port savers only to learn they cause problems with the latest HDMI requirements: so now I recommend no port savers, no extenders, no adapters....


----------



## ereed

Otto Pylot said:


> At what distance?


This is from monoprice's website for the Luxe series.

* The [email protected] maximum resolution and 18Gbps maximum bandwidth is applicable for cables up to 50 feet in length. The 100 foot version is limited to [email protected] and 10.2Gbps bandwidth.


----------



## danbfree

salavs said:


> FWIW, I've been using the Monoprice Luxe CL3 40ft (item #13759). I have tested with 4:4:4 output enabled on my Samsung 8500 UHD BR player. Others were reporting that they had trouble getting the menu system to display reliably with various cables and hence this was a useful test to run. In my case it works consistently using this cable. I must admit I have not had the opportunity to do a "long term" test, e.g. play a movie end to end and ensure the connection stays consistent throughout without any dropouts etc. I have on the other hand run plenty of content via my SHIELD which is doing [email protected], but not 4:4:4. I will be doing extensive testing with 4:4:4 soon and will report back.
> 
> I also had to get wires installed in wall and did not have the luxury of retrofitting conduit, so for insurance, I wired the Monoprice Luxe as well as the Celerity DFO-40P to both my TV and projector. Hopefully one of these two will work out in the "medium term"
> 
> For completeness, my device chain looks like:
> 
> Samsung 8500 -> Marantz SR6010 -> TV, Projector
> 
> The Marantz has dual HDMI out. Currently I have the Monoprice wires connected, with the Celerity lying idle.


This is great info, but if I may ask: UHD movies only use 4:2:0, right? So when you enable 4:4:4 in the UHD BR player, that is only future purposes or adds clarity for menus text? Also, the Shield does now do 4:4:4 with the latest update, I'm definitely interested in hearing your results with that, you have a nice setup and wondering where I may be going with my Shield... thanks.


----------



## danbfree

markrubin said:


> in my opinion they are *not *OK to mix with certified cables
> 
> I used to recommend the use of HDMI poert savers only to learn they cause problems with the latest HDMI requirements: so now I recommend no port savers, no extenders, no adapters....


Wow, that's interesting, you would think a simple coupler rated as "high speed" would be able to simply pass over an 18gbps signal without ruining it...


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> At what distance?


I thought we talked about that a couple of pages back...lol.. but ya, very interesting they claim it will work up to 50ft, definitely a reasonable priced solution for that distance!


----------



## ereed

3 cables from monoprice that meets the criteria. The ultra slim, cabernet, and luxe. All use redmere or active chips. The cabernet ultra is same as luxe except luxe has higher CL3 wall rating and looks like prettier jacket and more flexible. All 3 series the ultra slim redmere, cabernet, and luxe all suppport 4K, 60hz, 4:4:4, and 18gbps. The ultra slim max is 15 feet while the other 2 are 50 feet. If longer than 50 feet then it supports 4K at 24hz and 10.2gbps. Hope that helps.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Distance is the devil, regardless of what the mfr says. All you can do is try. Hopefully you'll be using a conduit for that length.


----------



## narrn001

Hey guys, I have just got an LG 55E6 OLED TV and connected my PC via HDMI1 but cannot select RGB Full or other 4:4:4 color output in the Nvidia Control panel when I have [email protected] 60Hz selected. It only limits me to YCbCr420 when I use 4K @ 60Hz.

But when I drop to 30Hz I get the option to display RGB full or other 4:4:4 color in the control panel.

Is there anyway I can get the option for 4:4:4 or RGB Full in the control panel when I am using [email protected]?

Is it my HDMI cable, I have tried several cables and still same result. I am using a GTX 980 Ti. Can anyone help me here please?


----------



## jaqb

narrn001 said:


> Hey guys, I have just got an LG 55E6 OLED TV and connected my PC via HDMI1 but cannot select RGB Full or other 4:4:4 color output in the Nvidia Control panel when I have [email protected] 60Hz selected. It only limits me to YCbCr420 when I use 4K @ 60Hz.
> 
> But when I drop to 30Hz I get the option to display RGB full or other 4:4:4 color in the control panel.
> 
> Is there anyway I can get the option for 4:4:4 or RGB Full in the control panel when I am using [email protected]?
> 
> Is it my HDMI cable, I have tried several cables and still same result. I am using a GTX 980 Ti. Can anyone help me here please?


Yes, if you already had enabled HDMI UHD Color, it means your cable is not good enough.


----------



## jaqb

ereed said:


> 3 cables from monoprice that meets the criteria. The ultra slim, cabernet, and luxe. All use redmere or active chips. The cabernet ultra is same as luxe except luxe has higher CL3 wall rating and looks like prettier jacket and more flexible. All 3 series the ultra slim redmere, cabernet, and luxe all suppport 4K, 60hz, 4:4:4, and 18gbps. The ultra slim max is 15 feet while the other 2 are 50 feet. If longer than 50 feet then it supports 4K at 24hz and 10.2gbps. Hope that helps.


Well I tried the cabernet ultra 30 ft. and it didn't work ! Max [email protected] 4:2:0 and I paid over $100 for this cable. (shipping to the Netherlands)


----------



## danbfree

narrn001 said:


> Hey guys, I have just got an LG 55E6 OLED TV and connected my PC via HDMI1 but cannot select RGB Full or other 4:4:4 color output in the Nvidia Control panel when I have [email protected] 60Hz selected. It only limits me to YCbCr420 when I use 4K @ 60Hz.
> 
> But when I drop to 30Hz I get the option to display RGB full or other 4:4:4 color in the control panel.
> 
> Is there anyway I can get the option for 4:4:4 or RGB Full in the control panel when I am using [email protected]?
> 
> Is it my HDMI cable, I have tried several cables and still same result. I am using a GTX 980 Ti. Can anyone help me here please?


Have you done this?

To enable chroma 4:4:4 support, change the input icon to PC. Press the input button on the remote, select 'All Inputs', and click 'Edit Icon'. For chroma 4:4:4 support at 4k and 60Hz, enable 'ULTRA HD Deep Color' under 'General' settings.


----------



## jaqb

deleted


----------



## narrn001

danbfree said:


> Have you done this?
> 
> To enable chroma 4:4:4 support, change the input icon to PC. Press the input button on the remote, select 'All Inputs', and click 'Edit Icon'. For chroma 4:4:4 support at 4k and 60Hz, enable 'ULTRA HD Deep Color' under 'General' settings.


Yes I already have input labeled to PC. And I do not get signal when I enable Deep Color @ 60Hz. But I do get signal when I have 30Hz selected.


----------



## Blammar

markrubin said:


> in my opinion they are *not *OK to mix with certified cables
> 
> I used to recommend the use of HDMI port savers only to learn they cause problems with the latest HDMI requirements: so now I recommend no port savers, no extenders, no adapters....


So, you're OK with HDMI cables coming out of the wall? I was planning to run 25' of Monoprice Luxe Series CL3 active cable between the wall plate behind the monitor and the wall plate behind the player/PVR, with short 1' cables from wall to monitor and 3' cables from wall to equipment. I didn't realize the wall plates had their own short segment of cable. Hmm.

Ah, there are keystone jacks that are just jacks and have no cable. So it'd be cable-jack-cable-jack-cable versus cable. Are there attractive jackless boxes for in-wall-cable setups?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Active cables should not be daisy-chained because the sink end (tv side) needs to draw some power for the chipsets (timing, error correction, etc). A better option for an in-wall installation would be solid core CAT-6a cable, 26AWG (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with some sort of active termination. The ends would need to be wired to whatever you're going to use (HDBT, HDMI extender possibly) but in the long run it would be better than running HDMI cable in the wall. Cabling is going to change, especially with the higher video demands and if you install an active cable who knows if the Redmere chipsets (or whatever) will be able to handle the bandwidth now or in the future. Nothing is going to happen to a solid copper wire sufficiently insulated and changing the ends is so much easier that trying to repair (if the chipsets die in the active cable) or upgrade an active cable. And if you install in conduit, you can easily pull the cable or add another cable (with the installed pull-string) if fiber optic ends up being the connection of choice for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz for runs over about 15'-20'.

I use punchdown keystone jacks for some of my solid core CAT-6 cable, (in-conduit) to extend my ethernet connection so I don't have to depend on WiFi for my HTS. For adequate, reliable HDMI, your choices for long distances are going to be limited.


----------



## gdrmo

Is anyone successfully using a 35 foot or longer Celerity detachable fiber optic HDMI cable to carry audio and 4K/60P/4:4:4 video from a Denon 2200 AVR to a JVC RS400 projector? The source is a Samsung K8500 Ultra HD player. I can't get the single cable solution to work without experiencing video flickering. So, I am having to pass audio from HDMI 2 on the K8500 to the Denon 2200 using a 6' Monoprice premium certified HDMI cable and video direct from HDMI 1 on the K8500 to the JVC RS400 using a 35' Celerity DFO HDMI cable. The firmware is up to date on all three devices.


----------



## Blammar

Otto Pylot said:


> Active cables should not be daisy-chained because the sink end (tv side) needs to draw some power for the chipsets (timing, error correction, etc). A better option for an in-wall installation would be solid core CAT-6a cable, 26AWG (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with some sort of active termination. The ends would need to be wired to whatever you're going to use (HDBT, HDMI extender possibly) but in the long run it would be better than running HDMI cable in the wall. Cabling is going to change, especially with the higher video demands and if you install an active cable who knows if the Redmere chipsets (or whatever) will be able to handle the bandwidth now or in the future. Nothing is going to happen to a solid copper wire sufficiently insulated and changing the ends is so much easier that trying to repair (if the chipsets die in the active cable) or upgrade an active cable. And if you install in conduit, you can easily pull the cable or add another cable (with the installed pull-string) if fiber optic ends up being the connection of choice for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz for runs over about 15'-20'.
> 
> I use punchdown keystone jacks for some of my solid core CAT-6 cable, (in-conduit) to extend my ethernet connection so I don't have to depend on WiFi for my HTS. For adequate, reliable HDMI, your choices for long distances are going to be limited.


That sounds like a good suggestion. I wasn't aware that you could send HDMI digital data over a CAT-6a cable, though. Can you give me explicit hardware recommendations there, please? Specifically, what do I hook the CAT-6a cables to so that I can plug short HDMI cables into the other end? Or were you saying, use one cable only, and plug the ends directly into the equipment? (I.e., basically just build my own active cable, and plug the ends directly into the equipment.)


----------



## danbfree

narrn001 said:


> Yes I already have input labeled to PC. And I do not get signal when I enable Deep Color @ 60Hz. But I do get signal when I have 30Hz selected.


Then yep, it's the cable, how short can you possibly go? There are passive inexpensive cables that can often work up to 25', with Monoprice up to 20' actually being premium certified and very affordable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Blammar said:


> That sounds like a good suggestion. I wasn't aware that you could send HDMI digital data over a CAT-6a cable, though. Can you give me explicit hardware recommendations there, please? Specifically, what do I hook the CAT-6a cables to so that I can plug short HDMI cables into the other end? Or were you saying, use one cable only, and plug the ends directly into the equipment? (I.e., basically just build my own active cable, and plug the ends directly into the equipment.)


Look into HDBT (HD BaseT). If can be expensive though. The CAT-6a cables are 4 pairs of twisted wire so you will have to wire them yourself. You are basically taking a cable and wiring it to an extender on one end and connecting an HDMI cable on the other end to your equipment. There are different kinds of HDBT so you'll need to educate yourself. Some will handle 10.2Gbps up to about 300'. They also require a power source so an outlet should be close by.

Using Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC) may work at your length but you should make the connection direct. In other words, from the source (in a conduit) thru the wall and directly connected to your device (tv). Whatever you do, lay the cable on the floor first and make whatever connection you decide on and make sure it works the way you want before running it thru the wall.


----------



## Blammar

Otto Pylot said:


> Look into HDBT (HD BaseT). If can be expensive though. The CAT-6a cables are 4 pairs of twisted wire so you will have to wire them yourself. You are basically taking a cable and wiring it to an extender on one end and connecting an HDMI cable on the other end to your equipment. There are different kinds of HDBT so you'll need to educate yourself. Some will handle 10.2Gbps up to about 300'. They also require a power source so an outlet should be close by.
> 
> Using Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC) may work at your length but you should make the connection direct. In other words, from the source (in a conduit) thru the wall and directly connected to your device (tv). Whatever you do, lay the cable on the floor first and make whatever connection you decide on and make sure it works the way you want before running it thru the wall.


Okay, I didn't lose my mind then. I'll need 18Gbps anyway, so I'll just use an active cable at 25' and make a direct connection. Presumably my contractor can make the wall boxes rat proof... (i.e., the rats in the walls can't make it out through the wall box.)


----------



## Otto Pylot

18Gbps reliably at 25'+ is going to be hit and miss. Your best bet is with a fiber optic cable (a lot of the reports here are positive), unless you can find a certified, Premium High Speed HDMI cable that is authentic and is certified for the length you purchased. Even then, there is no 100% guarantees. What ever you do though, use at least a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit and I would go ahead and install a solid core CAT-6a cable or two just in case along with a pull-string.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

*4k Issues*

I purchased an LG 43UH6100 on Sunday and have it connected to my Nvidia GTX 970. I set it up at [email protected] HZ, with 4:4:4. The HDMI I am using is a 10 foot Rocketfish from Best Buy that claims to achieve 18 Gbps, but I think it is having issues. 

I am getting horizontal lines that appear and then disappear which are very very thin - hard to see, but still visible. To illustrate what it looks like, it is very similar to recording a computer monitor with a camcorder back in the day and then seeing lines running down the screen when you go and playback the video.

I am also getting what looks like snow in areas of the screen where the pixels disappear for a fraction of a second - this is also hard to see, but if I stare at a spot long enough it is clearly visible. I guess this is what one of the other posters on here said, where he was getting sparkly artifacts with the Monster cable. 

Would you think that these issues are tied to the HDMI cable or the TV? I just ordered another HDMI cable, this time from monoprice (15 foot premium certified model), so I should know for certain later this week.


----------



## netroamer

Ryan Pierce said:


> I purchased an LG 43UH6100 on Sunday and have it connected to my Nvidia GTX 970. I set it up at [email protected] HZ, with 4:4:4. The HDMI I am using is a 10 foot Rocketfish from Best Buy that claims to achieve 18 Gbps, but I think it is having issues.
> 
> I am getting horizontal lines that appear and then disappear which are very very thin - hard to see, but still visible. To illustrate what it looks like, it is very similar to recording a computer monitor with a camcorder back in the day and then seeing lines running down the screen when you go and playback the video.
> 
> I am also getting what looks like snow in areas of the screen where the pixels disappear for a fraction of a second - this is also hard to see, but if I stare at a spot long enough it is clearly visible. I guess this is what one of the other posters on here said, where he was getting sparkly artifacts with the Monster cable.
> 
> Would you think that these issues are tied to the HDMI cable or the TV? I just ordered another HDMI cable, this time from monoprice (15 foot premium certified model), so I should know for certain later this week.


The HDMI Cable - most likely!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ryan Pierce said:


> I purchased an LG 43UH6100 on Sunday and have it connected to my Nvidia GTX 970. I set it up at [email protected] HZ, with 4:4:4. The HDMI I am using is a 10 foot Rocketfish from Best Buy that claims to achieve 18 Gbps, but I think it is having issues.
> 
> I am getting horizontal lines that appear and then disappear which are very very thin - hard to see, but still visible. To illustrate what it looks like, it is very similar to recording a computer monitor with a camcorder back in the day and then seeing lines running down the screen when you go and playback the video.
> 
> I am also getting what looks like snow in areas of the screen where the pixels disappear for a fraction of a second - this is also hard to see, but if I stare at a spot long enough it is clearly visible. I guess this is what one of the other posters on here said, where he was getting sparkly artifacts with the Monster cable.
> 
> Would you think that these issues are tied to the HDMI cable or the TV? I just ordered another HDMI cable, this time from monoprice (15 foot premium certified model), so I should know for certain later this week.


Cable mfrs are making all kinds of claims with carefully worded documentation. Rocketfish is like Monster, overpriced and a something that BB pushes on consumers. At 10' you shouldn't be having any issues, but what you described certainly sounds like an HDMI problem. As suggested, I would try another cable. Look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, preferably 26AWG that is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) because they are the only ones allowed to use the Premium High Speed HDMI name. The cable should come with a label of authenticity as its certificate. Be mindful of bend radius and see if that improves the pq. No one will absolutely guarantee a consistent 18Gbps over a given distance but a certified cable, certainly at 10', should be your best bet.


----------



## LucasTizma

Just an update on the cables I bought, the Monoprice 50 ft Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed Premium HDMI Cable... As suspected, at 50ft, they don't work at 4k, 60Hz, 4:4:4...but just barely! I mean, I get a picture, and there's a bit of snow in the image, but the sound pops. My previous passive HDMI cable at 35ft won't even display an image when Deep Color ULTRA HD is enabled.

Again, my setup was an active Mini DisplayPort-to-HDMI converter from my iMac to this active HDMI cable. When I turn off Deep Color, it works flawlessly (but then again, so does the shorter, passive cable I previously purchased).

So I can assume that the Monoprice active cable performs better, but at 50ft, it's just asking for too much. If someone wants to try those cables out at a shorter distance, maybe it'll work. I don't know what the falloff is for these distances (e.g., if 50ft "kinda" works, would 30ft be much more likely to work completely?).

It's Prime Day, so I'm thinking of picking up a simple "HDMI 2.0" 18Gbps 6ft cable and just moving my computer.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LucasTizma said:


> It's Prime Day, so I'm thinking of picking up a simple "HDMI 2.0" 18Gbps 6ft cable and just moving my computer.


No such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. It's either an passive or active High Speed HDMI cable. If the cable is actually labeled as an "HDMI 2.0" cable it's more than likely bogus and another Chinese rip-off. If you want 18Gbps, at 6' you should be fine. To be sure, look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. They are certified by an ATC and the only ones allowed to use the Premium High Speed HDMI name. They should come with a laser-label that is counterfeit proof and guarantee's authenticity.


----------



## LucasTizma

That's why I put "HDMI 2.0" in quotes, as manufacturers often call it that.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

I ordered the 15 foot version of the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable from Monoprice. 

Should be in on Thursday for testing to see if it resolves the issues with the PQ.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LucasTizma said:


> That's why I put "HDMI 2.0" in quotes, as manufacturers often call it that.


And that's why I would never purchase a cable from someone who labels it as such.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ryan Pierce said:


> I ordered the 15 foot version of the Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable from Monoprice.
> 
> Should be in on Thursday for testing to see if it resolves the issues with the PQ.


Do let us know. I'm anxious to see if the HDMI Licensing approved ATC tested cables will perform as expected at that length. Make sure it has the little laser tag label of authenticity.


----------



## Carter D

Otto Pylot said:


> Do let us know. I'm anxious to see if the HDMI Licensing approved ATC tested cables will perform as expected at that length. Make sure it has the little laser tag label of authenticity.


Hi Otto. Are HDMI cables over 10 feet directional?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Carter D said:


> Hi Otto. Are HDMI cables over 10 feet directional?


The length has nothing to do with their directionality. All High Speed HDMI cables, active or passive, can do ARC as part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec if the connected hardware supports it and is enabled for Audio Return Channel (ARC).


----------



## Carter D

Otto Pylot said:


> The length has nothing to do with their directionality. All High Speed HDMI cables, active or passive, can do ARC as part of the HDMI 2.0 hardware spec if the connected hardware supports it and is enabled for Audio Return Channel (ARC).


Thanks Otto. I have Blue Jeans HDMIs 9 feet long (I think) and still have handshake issues with My Directv C61 4K box to my Yamaha RX A3050. I'm pretty sure I bought high speed (18GHZ) from Blue Jeans. I can resolve the handshake issue by selecting another HDMI input on the Yamaha and then going back to the Directv input. Do you have any thoughts on my issue?
Thanks,
Carter


----------



## Ryan Pierce

danbfree said:


> Have you done this?
> 
> To enable chroma 4:4:4 support, change the input icon to PC. Press the input button on the remote, select 'All Inputs', and click 'Edit Icon'. For chroma 4:4:4 support at 4k and 60Hz, enable 'ULTRA HD Deep Color' under 'General' settings.


I tried this when I got home from work. After making the change, I noticed that many of the settings under the picture options changed and were greyed out. The mouse also lags badly no matter how I change the settings. As soon as I change the input from PC back to HDMI 1 the mouse issue goes away. It's odd to me how much a label modifies the given settings. 

I also tried something else while I wait for my new cable. I turned off the deep color setting and set the computer to 4:2:0 [email protected] hz and I no longer have any issues with PQ. So the cable is for certain my issue, not the TV.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Carter D said:


> Thanks Otto. I have Blue Jeans HDMIs 9 feet long (I think) and still have handshake issues with My Directv C61 4K box to my Yamaha RX A3050. I'm pretty sure I bought high speed (18GHZ) from Blue Jeans. I can resolve the handshake issue by selecting another HDMI input on the Yamaha and then going back to the Directv input. Do you have any thoughts on my issue?
> Thanks,
> Carter


18Gbps does not mean "high speed". Technically, the HDMI 2.0a hardware spec can go as high as about 70Gbps, but we'll never seen that. High Speed HDMI is anything above 8.91Gbps. Even some of the newer cables are only certified for 10.2Gbps, which is technically the gray area where HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 overlap. A lot of cables say "up to 18Gbps" but that doesn't really mean anything. What a lot of us want is a cable that has been tested and certified by ATC to reliably sustain an 18Gbps bandwidth over a set length. BJC makes good cables and they do have a certification program (they may even belong to an ATC) so you just have to look. To be able to push 4k, both HDMI inputs, source and sink, have to have HDMI 2.0a/HDCP2.2 compliant chipsets. Otherwise, you will fall back to the common HDMI protocol set. The cable is just a pipe.

Are you using CEC by any chance? CEC, Consumer Electronic Control, allows you to use a single remote for all of your HDMI connected devices if you have enabled CEC on all of your devices. CEC is called different things by the mfrs (SimpLink for example is LG's term for CEC, AnyNet+ is Samsung's term, etc.).


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> And that's why I would never purchase a cable from someone who labels it as such.


Well, good for you, but it may very well mean that they have tested it to meet HDMI 2.0 specs and especially at shorter distances it's no big deal... Not every manufacturer wants to pay exorbitant licensing and testing fees so that they then have to turn around and pass those costs on to the consumer.. Now, personally, I'd go with the Monoprice if I needed a 15'-20' connection since that is the longest they certify, but 10 feet and under any decent, yes, even "HDMI 2.0" cable will work... Again, being a snob isn't helping people on here that don't know any better. I think it's time for me to go ahead an unsubscribe from this thread, it seems like new people on here just get the snob treatment instead of being helpful and I don't need that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> Well, good for you, but it may very well mean that they have tested it to meet HDMI 2.0 specs and especially at shorter distances it's no big deal... Not every manufacturer wants to pay exorbitant licensing and testing fees so that they then have to turn around and pass those costs on to the consumer.. Now, personally, I'd go with the Monoprice if I needed a 15'-20' connection since that is the longest they certify, but 10 feet and under any decent, yes, even "HDMI 2.0" cable will work... Again, being a snob isn't helping people on here that don't know any better. I think it's time for me to go ahead an unsubscribe from this thread, it seems like new people on here just get the snob treatment instead of being helpful and I don't need that.


You obviously missed my point. Any mfr that labels their cables as "HDMI 2.0", which HDMI Licensing asked mfrs not to do a few years ago, is purposely misleading the consumer. And if they do that, any other claim they make for that cable is suspect. This has got nothing to do with being a snob. It's just good sense. A cable mfr can state that their cable meets HDMI 2.0 specs (which by definition is a high speed cable) and that's fine, but there are still folks who think that HDMI 2.0 is a cable spec. There is a lot of misinformation and confusing information, especially for the new folks, and we should do what we can to help and educate others. Nobody was born knowing this stuff so sharing experience and knowledge is what AVS is all about.


----------



## JamKur

I dunno if this has already been mentioned, but I think I found a set of 50' cables that work. 
They are the Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable from Monoprice. I bought two of them. Of them works at [email protected] 8bit 4:4:4 YCbCr, but the other does not. I currently have an RMA going to get latter replaced, but at least one of them works.


----------



## Carter D

Otto Pylot said:


> 18Gbps does not mean "high speed". Technically, the HDMI 2.0a hardware spec can go as high as about 70Gbps, but we'll never seen that. High Speed HDMI is anything above 8.91Gbps. Even some of the newer cables are only certified for 10.2Gbps, which is technically the gray area where HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 overlap. A lot of cables say "up to 18Gbps" but that doesn't really mean anything. What a lot of us want is a cable that has been tested and certified by ATC to reliably sustain an 18Gbps bandwidth over a set length. BJC makes good cables and they do have a certification program (they may even belong to an ATC) so you just have to look. To be able to push 4k, both HDMI inputs, source and sink, have to have HDMI 2.0a/HDCP2.2 compliant chipsets. Otherwise, you will fall back to the common HDMI protocol set. The cable is just a pipe.
> 
> Are you using CEC by any chance? CEC, Consumer Electronic Control, allows you to use a single remote for all of your HDMI connected devices if you have enabled CEC on all of your devices. CEC is called different things by the mfrs (SimpLink for example is LG's term for CEC, AnyNet+ is Samsung's term, etc.).


Thanks Otto. I think you know as much as Jeffrey Boccacio from DPL labs about HDMI! Simplink is off on my TV. When it's on and HDMI control is on on my Yamaha 3050 the right input is never selected. I can live with the handshake issue as well as my Savant remote's inability to select the correct audio input from my LG when watching the built in apps. Just a couple of button presses in either case.
Thanks a million Otto..brilliant stuff!
Carter


----------



## swest

Dreamliner said:


> I'm going 4K!
> 
> Anyone have a recommendation for a cable that will work at 25'? I'll be coming directly from the K8500. I'm not sure what to get...
> ...
> This is what I have now:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024015&p_id=3657&seq=1&format=2
> .
> .


Dreamliner, are you still lurking about? I'm curious about your post above, where you say, "This is what I have now", and cite the Monoprice item #3657. 

You didn't mention it one way or the other, but did you _try_ that cable before heading off for an alternative? The reason I ask is that I have the 35' version of that cable. If you go to the page you cite above, and look, you will see boxes for 6', 10', 15', 25', 35', 50'. If you click on the 35' button, you will come to the cable I mention. Interestingly, when you get to the 35' page, the description (of item [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3571]#3571 )[/URL] is: "Commercial Silver Series Standard HDMI® Cable, 35ft Black". That is erroneous, but they've never corrected it... I bought that cable 6 (!) years ago. The cable casing, which I am sure looks just like yours, clearly says: "High Speed".

Anyway, to my point: My 35' version of your cable works just fine in my Samsung UBD-K8500 => 3' HDMI cable => Marantz 8802A => Monoprice #3571 , 35' HDMI cable => JVC RS600.

The only reason I'm not currently using it is that it is *so* heavy, that, as others have mentioned, I worry about dislodging the connectors on either the Marantz or the JVC.

But, it *works*. And, by the way, it is _the only one_ I have had in this setup that _does _work (and, by 'work', I mean it passes the Samsung's [email protected] splash screen properly).

So, I'm wondering: Did you _try _that cable?

Cheers!

- s.west

p.s. I'm kinda assuming that you _did_ try it, and it didn't work... which means that my posting here is yet another example of the ridiculously wide variability among the various cable choices.


----------



## Dreamliner

swest said:


> Dreamliner, are you still lurking about? I'm curious about your post above, where you say, "This is what I have now", and cite the Monoprice item #3657.
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't mention it one way or the other, but did you _try_ that cable before heading off for an alternative? The reason I ask is that I have the 35' version of that cable. If you go to the page you cite above, and look, you will see boxes for 6', 10', 15', 25', 35', 50'. If you click on the 35' button, you will come to the cable I mention. Interestingly, when you get to the 35' page, the description (of item [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=3571]#3571 )[/URL] is: "Commercial Silver Series Standard HDMI Cable, 35ft Black". That is erroneous, but they've never corrected it... I bought that cable 6 (!) years ago. The cable casing, which I am sure looks just like yours, clearly says: "High Speed".
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, to my point: My 35' version of your cable works just fine in my Samsung UBD-K8500 => 3' HDMI cable => Marantz 8802A => Monoprice #3571 , 35' HDMI cable => JVC RS600.
> 
> 
> 
> The only reason I'm not currently using it is that it is *so* heavy, that, as others have mentioned, I worry about dislodging the connectors on either the Marantz or the JVC.
> 
> 
> 
> But, it *works*. And, by the way, it is _the only one_ I have had in this setup that _does _work (and, by 'work', I mean it passes the Samsung's [email protected] splash screen properly).
> 
> 
> 
> So, I'm wondering: Did you _try _that cable?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> - s.west
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. I'm kinda assuming that you _did_ try it, and it didn't work... which means that my posting here is yet another example of the ridiculously wide variability among the various cable choices.


I did try it but got blackouts/dropouts. 

I see the Monoprice description for the cable I had says it supports 4K. I'll see if I can get some sort of refund from them.


----------



## swest

Dreamliner said:


> I did try it but got blackouts/dropouts.


Bummer... Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## narrn001

Still having issues with my PC to LG E6 TV setup. Tried many cables, only got one to work at 4K @ 60Hz 4:4:4. The cable brand is crest platinum high speed HDMI cable. I am in Australia so I cannot get monoprice.

But it keeps dropping signal every now and then. I am forced to switch Deep Color HD off to regain signal or sometimes just let the no signal screen hang for a while and I will get signal back. What do I do? Try more cables? I am only using ~14ft cables.


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## Otto Pylot

Deep Color is a term that has always been a bit confusing to me. While Deep Color has been an HDMI hardware spec for a few years now, source material was never encoded with what was being called Deep Color, even though virtually any device was said to support it. When Deep Color was enabled, all kinds of pq issues arose so the advice, at the time, was to disable Deep Color. And once that was done, the problems went away. When Deep Color was enabled, it was looking for data that just wasn't there so pq issue arose. Now with UHD etc I'm not sure what Deep Color means anymore. But it sure seems that the same problems are there. PQ issues when enabled because the data it looks for is not there, or in a format that the display doesn't understand. Problems go away when disabled. I don't know for sure if the industry term "Deep Color" means 4:4:4 or something else that is not supported by source material. It could be that Deep Color means something else when the source is a computer and something entirely different if the source is a blu-ray.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

For those of you trying to run [email protected] with 4:4:4 (HDMI Deep Color turned on in the TV setting) in 8 bit color, I am beginning to wonder if the issue lies with the GPU rather than the HDMI cable bandwith limitations (not actually hitting 18 Gbps). My HDMI Premium Certified Cable from monoprice comes in today so I will be able to confirm later, but I have a new theory which most likely is due to my ignorance. 

The GTX 1080 that was recently released has a specification that says it supports HDMI 2.0b. The GPU in my setup is a GTX 970 FTW, which in its specification says it supports HDMI 2.0. HDR was not added until HDMI 2.0a, but I guess I don't understand if this is simply a driver update to the GPU that allows support, or if HDMI 2.0a/b are entirely different ports. If they are different ports, then my GTX 970 will never support [email protected] hz 4:4:4. 

Right now I am running my computer at [email protected] 4:2:0 with 12 bit color and I have no issues at all - this is with a Rocketfish cable from BestBuy. I only have issues when I turn HDR on.

Can someone please confirm whether HDMI 2.0a/b are merely an extension of the exact same port via a driver update, or these are completely different ports??

Thanks


----------



## txwildcat

> Can someone please confirm whether HDMI 2.0a/b are merely an extension of the exact same port via a driver update, or these are completely different ports??


i'm not sure but i believe 2.0a uses the same port, mentioned on hdmi.org under FAQ


----------



## Otto Pylot

"HDMI 2.0b is the most recent update of the digital-only interface’s specifications. As a firmware upgrade, HDMI 2.0b is fully backwards compatible with past versions of the High Definition Multimedia Interface. It does not require the purchase of additional connectors or HDMI cables in order for consumers to enjoy significantly enhanced audio-visual experiences – the new integrated software enables these improved features. As such, current high-speed connections provided by Category 2 HDMI cables are more than capable of processing these advanced key features."

My understanding is that, like all HDMI hardware protocols, the chipsets need to be on the same version of the HDMI protocol set. If not, they will "fall back" to whatever protocols are common to both ends, output and input. The differences between HDMI 2.0a and 2.0b are very subtle and I believe its the way they handle the metadata for HDR.


----------



## doctorwizz

Ryan Pierce said:


> If they are different ports, then my GTX 970 will never support [email protected] hz 4:4:4.
> 
> Right now I am running my computer at [email protected] 4:2:0 with 12 bit color and I have no issues at all - this is with a Rocketfish cable from BestBuy. I only have issues when I turn HDR on.
> 
> 
> Thanks


How are you turning on HDR with a 970? It is not possible and there is no HDR source material for a PC yet. 
A 970 supports 4K/60 444 8bit since it was released in Sept 2014.
4K/60 444 requires a cable that works at 600Mhz. That is 18Gbps.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

doctorwizz said:


> How are you turning on HDR with a 970? It is not possible and there is no HDR source material for a PC yet.
> A 970 supports 4K/60 444 8bit since it was released in Sept 2014.


To be honest, I don't really know what the hell I am even talking about anymore. I can't figure out what all the different terms mean.

I believe I am turning on HDR in the TV settings (which on LG is called HDMI Deep Color Mode). Maybe I am wrong and this is something entirely different. On Netflix I see options for streaming 4k HDR videos, so wouldn't this be considered source material? 

Enabling this mode on the TV triggers a restart of the TV, and upon restart the Nvidia Control Panel then allows me to only select 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit. With HDMI Deep Color turned off, I can select 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 at 12 bit with [email protected]

There are so damn many different terms that I can't even keep track of what is what anymore. I'm starting to drive myself nuts with this project.


----------



## doctorwizz

Ryan Pierce said:


> To be honest, I don't really know what the hell I am even talking about anymore. I can't figure out what all the different terms mean.
> 
> I believe I am turning on HDR in the TV settings (which on LG is called HDMI Deep Color Mode). Maybe I am wrong and this is something entirely different. On Netflix I see options for streaming 4k HDR videos, so wouldn't this be considered source material?
> 
> Enabling this mode on the TV triggers a restart of the TV, and upon restart the Nvidia Control Panel then allows me to only select 4k/60 4:4:4 8 bit. With HDMI Deep Color turned off, I can select 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 at 12 bit with [email protected]
> 
> There are so damn many different terms that I can't even keep track of what is what anymore. I'm starting to drive myself nuts with this project.


OIC. You notice any better color with the PC at 12 bit 420? And are you sure you still get 60hz at that setting?


----------



## Ryan Pierce

doctorwizz said:


> OIC. You notice any better color with the PC at 12 bit 420? And are you sure you still get 60hz at that setting?


100% sure I am getting 60hz at 12 bit. I can post a pic when I get home from the office. 

I was actually going to ask you, do you think 12 bit 4:2:0 is better than 8 bit 4:4:4? I can't find any comparisons on this. 

I tested BF4 last night on 4k, all settings at medium and the rendering settings turned off. Was able to keep it around 60 fps, looks unreal. Then I put it down to ultra settings at 1080p to compare - 1080p ultra looks like garbage compared to 4k medium settings. Can't wait to try again tonight after I hook up the new HDMI cable and test it on 4:4:4 with deep color mode on.


----------



## doctorwizz

Ryan Pierce said:


> 100% sure I am getting 60hz at 12 bit. I can post a pic when I get home from the office.
> 
> I was actually going to ask you, do you think 12 bit 4:2:0 is better than 8 bit 4:4:4? I can't find any comparisons on this.
> 
> I tested BF4 last night on 4k, all settings at medium and the rendering settings turned off. Was able to keep it around 60 fps, looks unreal. Then I put it down to ultra settings at 1080p to compare - 1080p ultra looks like garbage compared to 4k medium settings. Can't wait to try again tonight after I hook up the new HDMI cable and test it on 4:4:4 with deep color mode on.


I keep UHD Color, which is Deep Color, always on on my Samsung. 
To get true 444, I have to rename the TV's HDMI input to PC. But then I lose a lot of color controls and contrast. So I don't use 444 mode. My 980 outputs 444, but I get 422 8bit since the TV in not in PC mode. To me, it looks better with richer color and greater contrast. World of Warcraft and other games look amazing!
Also watching a TV source and other sources in 444 PC mode does not look good. PITA to keep changing it back and forth.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

I ran the premium certified HDMI from Monoprice and it is even worse than the POS Rocketfish from BestBuy. On 4:4:4 the screen blacks out every few seconds and im getting horizontal lines running on the screen. So I am officially giving up until a cable comes out with bandwith higher than 18 Gbps, because obviously 18 Gbps is not enough. I even downloaded the app to scan the certificate code and the cable was verified.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ you will be waiting a very long time for an HDMI cable to handle bandwidth higher than 18Gbps  Fiber optic will probably be the way to go, and for some, that's what they have had to do. 18Gbps is plenty for UHD and is well within the HDMI hardware spec. My guess is that something else is going on. What's your cable run distance?


----------



## Ryan Pierce

The cable is 15 feet. The run is actually only 8 feet, but need about 12 feet to play it safe. Any idea how much bandwidth [email protected] 4:2:2 with 12 bit color uses? I am not getting any screen drops or lines on this setting...


----------



## Otto Pylot

At 15', with nothing in between, you should be able to get by with a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable. Any serious bends in the cable? I'm thinking it's something else because 18Gbps should be plenty to handle that. You said your cable is a Premium Certified High Speed HDMI cable. Did you get some sort of certificate or label that you can scan to verify that or anything that lists the bandwidth tested and/or certified?

Certification is certainly not the final answer but it is about the only thing that consumers can go on to ensure some level of confidence and reliability. However, there are lots of ways to "certify" a cable so until all cable mfrs adopt standardized certification protocols, and the marketing and labeling of cables is better controlled, this is going to be an on-going problem.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

Yep, downloaded the app and scanned the certificate. Everything checks out. 

I ended up getting black outs at 4:2:2 as well with HDMI Deep Color turned on. I have now officially given up and have turned off HDMI Deep Color and am running at 4:2:0 12 bit. I don't know if it is the TV, GPU, or the cable, but I am sick of wasting so much time on this. The rocketfish never had drop outs, but it did have horizontal lines, which leads me to believe the cable is indeed the issue.


----------



## narrn001

I am in the same boat as you Ryan. I have been trying tried several premium grade HDMI cables but cannot get 4:4:4 stable @ 4k 60hz on a GTX 980Ti

I feel like giving up to. Does someone actually have a solution to this?

I wonder if there is any DP to HDMI cables that could work?


----------



## siuengr

I tried out two of the monoprice cables tonight. I didn't have any problems, but my Vizio isn't capable of 60Hz 444. If I set 444 at 30hz it would change it back to 420 when I switched to to 60Hz. I did set it to 12bpp and that worked fine. I had the 35' Luxe, and the 20' Certified Premium.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Just an observation but it seems that a lot of issues are with folks using a pc with a GTX card. I don't use a pc so I have no experience with the graphics card but could it be a firmware issue or something else with the pc that just doesn't like 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz? This really is frustrating.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

Otto,

I think what we really need is someone with one of the newer GTX models such as the GTX 1070/1080 to test out [email protected] 4:4:4 with one of these same cables to gauge a possible fault with our older 900 series GPUs. However, it is concerning that narnn001 tested 4:4:4 on a GTX 980Ti which is a relatively newer model. 

There is a way to update the firmware of the actual GPU, but there isn't much literature on how to do it and most of the firmware updates are from January of 2015 for my model anyways. Updates for GPUs predominately come from Nvidia's driver updates. 

With my setup, I cannot get 4:4:4 8 bit, 4:2:2 12 bit, or 4:2:2 10 bit to work consistently. The image appears and looks great, but then I get horizontal lines and blackouts that reoccur intermittently. The only confirmed working configurations for me are 4:2:0 12 bit and 4:2:2 8 bit. All of these are running 3840x2160 @ 60 hz.

Starting to run out of ideas here, and I can't find any solutions or ideas on the Nvidia forums or reddit either...


----------



## Ryan Pierce

I just ordered a 6 foot, 10 foot, and 15 foot Amazon Basics cable. I ordered through Prime Now so I will have them within an hour at the office and then test each of them individually at home running BF4 to see if I get any blackouts then report back.

Below is the link to the products I purchased this time:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8T0YQ/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I also have attached an image of the bandwidth required for various configurations of 4k, 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:2:0, and 8 bit, 10 bit, and 12 bit.


----------



## doctorwizz

Otto Pylot said:


> Just an observation but it seems that a lot of issues are with folks using a pc with a GTX card. I don't use a pc so I have no experience with the graphics card but could it be a firmware issue or something else with the pc that just doesn't like 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz? This really is frustrating.


4K/60 444 has always worked with a 900 series since day 1. I got several on day 1. 
The issues are not with the graphics card. It's the cable, settings, or the TV.


To test for 444, you have to do the brown fox test:
http://www.geeks3d.com/20141203/how...-chroma-subsampling-used-with-your-4k-uhd-tv/
You have to be absolutely sure that your windows scaling is at 100%. And your image viewer is not magnifying the image.


----------



## BigScreen

Ryan Pierce said:


> I think what we really need is someone with one of the newer GTX models such as the GTX 1070/1080 to test out [email protected] 4:4:4 with one of these same cables to gauge a possible fault with our older 900 series GPUs. However, it is concerning that narnn001 tested 4:4:4 on a GTX 980Ti which is a relatively newer model.
> 
> There is a way to update the firmware of the actual GPU, but there isn't much literature on how to do it and most of the firmware updates are from January of 2015 for my model anyways. Updates for GPUs predominately come from Nvidia's driver updates.
> 
> With my setup, I cannot get 4:4:4 8 bit, 4:2:2 12 bit, or 4:2:2 10 bit to work consistently. The image appears and looks great, but then I get horizontal lines and blackouts that reoccur intermittently. The only confirmed working configurations for me are 4:2:0 12 bit and 4:2:2 8 bit. All of these are running 3840x2160 @ 60 hz.
> 
> Starting to run out of ideas here, and I can't find any solutions or ideas on the Nvidia forums or reddit either...


I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish. The GTX series chipset is capable of doing 4K at 4:4:4 at 60 Hz at 8-bit depths, and there is no need to go any higher than that. That setting is only needed by PC's that are connected to 4K TV's so that text displays clearly.

Blu-ray (1080p) only needs 4:2:0 at 8 bit. The so-called "deep color" settings in some devices/displays do nothing to improve the image, because the source will always be no better than 4:2:0 at 8 bit.

Movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray (2160p) only need 4:2:0, 24Hz, at 10 bit maximum. However, the Samsung UBD-K8500 displays its menus at 4:4:4 at 8 bit. There is no consumer media device that will produce a 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 signal at 12 bits that I am aware of.

You don't mention which TV you have. The only thing I saw was that it was an LG. Are you very sure that the TV is capable of HDR? If so, are you very sure of what needs to be done to get the TV to accept an HDR signal? On my Sony, the input needed to be set to "Enhanced" in order to enable 4:4:4 chroma, so your display might need something similar. (That looks to be the "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color" setting you might have been referring to)

Bottom line: if you can achieve 4:4:4 at 8 bit 4K at 60 Hz on a PC, you're doing good. I have no idea about trying to do HDR from a PC, so I can't help you there, but I would imagine if you can do 4:2:0 at 10 bit out of your video card, the hardware piece is there, and then you'd just have to deal with the software piece.


----------



## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> 4K/60 444 has always worked with a 900 series since day 1. I got several on day 1.
> The issues are not with the graphics card. It's the cable, settings, or the TV.
> 
> 
> To test for 444, you have to do the brown fox test:
> http://www.geeks3d.com/20141203/how...-chroma-subsampling-used-with-your-4k-uhd-tv/
> You have to be absolutely sure that your windows scaling is at 100%. And your image viewer is not magnifying the image.


Ok, thanks. It was just a question because I wasn't sure.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

BigScreen said:


> I'm not sure what you're hoping to accomplish. The GTX series chipset is capable of doing 4K at 4:4:4 at 60 Hz at 8-bit depths, and there is no need to go any higher than that. That setting is only needed by PC's that are connected to 4K TV's so that text displays clearly.
> 
> Blu-ray (1080p) only needs 4:2:0 at 8 bit. The so-called "deep color" settings in some devices/displays do nothing to improve the image, because the source will always be no better than 4:2:0 at 8 bit.
> 
> Movies on Ultra HD Blu-ray (2160p) only need 4:2:0, 24Hz, at 10 bit maximum. However, the Samsung UBD-K8500 displays its menus at 4:4:4 at 8 bit. There is no consumer media device that will produce a 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 signal at 12 bits that I am aware of.
> 
> You don't mention which TV you have. The only thing I saw was that it was an LG. Are you very sure that the TV is capable of HDR? If so, are you very sure of what needs to be done to get the TV to accept an HDR signal? On my Sony, the input needed to be set to "Enhanced" in order to enable 4:4:4 chroma, so your display might need something similar. (That looks to be the "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color" setting you might have been referring to)
> 
> Bottom line: if you can achieve 4:4:4 at 8 bit 4K at 60 Hz on a PC, you're doing good. I have no idea about trying to do HDR from a PC, so I can't help you there, but I would imagine if you can do 4:2:0 at 10 bit out of your video card, the hardware piece is there, and then you'd just have to deal with the software piece.


Hi BigScreen,

My model is the LG 43UH6100 which is capable of HDR (they call it HDR Pro on the LG site for this model). I don't really care about movies or tv for my setup, I am more interested in using the 4:4:4 setup for 4k PC gaming. I can tell a difference when I play Battlefield 4 in 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0, but I cannot make it work without blackouts of the screen every 30 seconds or so (on 4:4:4). 

I am not worried about HDR at this point, I am only trying to get my computer setup to be able to play games at [email protected] with 4:4:4 and 8 bit color. 

I do have the PC setup correctly in the Nvidia Settings, I have the most recent drivers, and I have the TV setup correctly (4:4:4 only becomes an option in the computer settings if I make the correct settings on the TV...HDMI Deep Color in this instance).

I have run the test mentioned above and I do have true 4:4:4, my main issue is getting consistent quality without horizontal lines or blackouts. 

I am going to try three more cables out when I get home (same model at three different lengths)


----------



## Roudan

Hi

I have not followed this thread for a while, just wondering if there is a cable which can run 50ft for 4K projector now ? Thanks


----------



## BigScreen

Ryan Pierce said:


> Hi BigScreen,
> 
> My model is the LG 43UH6100 which is capable of HDR (they call it HDR Pro on the LG site for this model). I don't really care about movies or tv for my setup, I am more interested in using the 4:4:4 setup for 4k PC gaming. I can tell a difference when I play Battlefield 4 in 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:0, but I cannot make it work without blackouts of the screen every 30 seconds or so (on 4:4:4).
> 
> I am not worried about HDR at this point, I am only trying to get my computer setup to be able to play games at [email protected] with 4:4:4 and 8 bit color.
> 
> I do have the PC setup correctly in the Nvidia Settings, I have the most recent drivers, and I have the TV setup correctly (4:4:4 only becomes an option in the computer settings if I make the correct settings on the TV...HDMI Deep Color in this instance).
> 
> I have run the test mentioned above and I do have true 4:4:4, my main issue is getting consistent quality without horizontal lines or blackouts.
> 
> I am going to try three more cables out when I get home (same model at three different lengths)


OK, that helps clear things up. I was confused by your mentions of 10 bit and 12 bit color.

I don't know if you saw it or not, but I did a bunch of testing back in December and posted my results:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...z-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-5.html#post39549754

If I needed another cable, I would skip past all the low-priced they-might-work cables and go straight to Blue Jeans Cable. For under $40, I ordered their _HDMI Cable, BJC Series-FE 28 AWG Belden Bonded-Pair with Ethernet, 12 foot, Black_ and it worked perfectly. It was less rigid than the Rocketfish cable (that also worked), so it was a better fit in my setup.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...z-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-6.html#post39656034

There are cheaper cables out there that some people have had success with. If you're willing to go through the effort of purchasing and returning them, it's a way to save a little money (provided you don't have to return too many and pay more due to shipping costs). I'm all for saving a buck here and there, but after spending so much time trying to figure out what was going on and seeing what was out there and how it was being marketed, I wanted to buy from a place that is known for its customer service and product quality. Is it a guarantee that it will work just as well for you? No. BJC certifies their cables up 15 feet, and I don't recall how long you needed. The longer you go, the less chance you will have of success, even with a certified cable, due to the other factors (sending and receiving equipment).

The big benefit of this thread is that people can report what works and what doesn't work for them. Unfortunately, there's no list of each that has been compiled, so you have to resort to searching the thread.


----------



## Dreamliner

The 20' certified Monoprice cables I picked up are working fine for 4K, HDR and 3D. My old cable had issues with dropouts, especially if trying to rewind or fast forward. These are just fine.

I don't have the ability to test 4:4:4. I used a Samsung 8500k UHD player.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

BigScreen said:


> OK, that helps clear things up. I was confused by your mentions of 10 bit and 12 bit color.
> 
> I don't know if you saw it or not, but I did a bunch of testing back in December and posted my results:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...z-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-5.html#post39549754
> 
> If I needed another cable, I would skip past all the low-priced they-might-work cables and go straight to Blue Jeans Cable. For under $40, I ordered their _HDMI Cable, BJC Series-FE 28 AWG Belden Bonded-Pair with Ethernet, 12 foot, Black_ and it worked perfectly. It was less rigid than the Rocketfish cable (that also worked), so it was a better fit in my setup.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...z-4-4-4-chroma-deep-color-6.html#post39656034
> 
> There are cheaper cables out there that some people have had success with. If you're willing to go through the effort of purchasing and returning them, it's a way to save a little money (provided you don't have to return too many and pay more due to shipping costs). I'm all for saving a buck here and there, but after spending so much time trying to figure out what was going on and seeing what was out there and how it was being marketed, I wanted to buy from a place that is known for its customer service and product quality. Is it a guarantee that it will work just as well for you? No. BJC certifies their cables up 15 feet, and I don't recall how long you needed. The longer you go, the less chance you will have of success, even with a certified cable, due to the other factors (sending and receiving equipment).
> 
> The big benefit of this thread is that people can report what works and what doesn't work for them. Unfortunately, there's no list of each that has been compiled, so you have to resort to searching the thread.


Ok, I just looked over your post from back in December. The Amazon HDMI (latest standard) are the cables I received today - will update this evening, I got a 6, 10, and 15 foot version. The first cable I tried was the exact same Rocketfish that worked for you, even the same length (12ft.). This would display 4:4:4 but I had sparkly white pixels appearing and horizontal lines. The second cable I tried was the Monoprice 15 foot Premium Certified HDMI cable - this is the one that is giving me blackouts and currently setup. Hoping the 10 foot and 6 foot versions work from Amazon when I test them out tonight.


----------



## Ratman

Roudan said:


> Hi
> 
> I have not followed this thread for a while, just wondering if there is a cable which can run 50ft for 4K projector now ? Thanks


 I'll step on the ledge and say, "No".


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Certainly nothing that is 100% guaranteed. Possibly a 24AWG passive High Speed HDMI cable, an active cable of the same AWG, or a fiber optical cable.


----------



## netroamer

Roudan said:


> Hi
> 
> I have not followed this thread for a while, just wondering if there is a cable which can run 50ft for 4K projector now ? Thanks


The Monoprice active Cabernet cable is described as capable of 18ghz up to 50'.


----------



## doctorwizz

Got a few MP certified HDMI cables today. A 15' and some 3's. Works fine at 4K/60 444.
Previous Kabel directs worked fine too up to 20'.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> The Monoprice active Cabernet cable is described as capable of 18ghz up to 50'.


Description and reality are not always in agreement. For some they work, for others they don't. Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

Finally can confirm I have 4:4:4 working without issues now using an Amazon Basics 6 foot cable.


----------



## netroamer

Otto Pylot said:


> Description and reality are not always in agreement. For some they work, for others they don't. Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try.


I have 2 40' Cabernet active cables in service for 2 months. I have tested them with my Murideo generator/analyzer system and they consistently passed all tests from 18ghz to 2ghz. I have them attached to a Sony VW5000 fed by a Radiance Pro and a Sammy 8500. They have both consistently produced a quality and stable image.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> I have 2 40' Cabernet active cables in service for 2 months. I have tested them with my Murideo generator/analyzer system and they consistently passed all tests from 18ghz to 2ghz. I have them attached to a Sony VW5000 fed by a Radiance Pro and a Sammy 8500. They have both consistently produced a quality and stable image.


That's excellent information and exactly what we need to hear. Thanks. I'm assuming that you have no issues with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz?


----------



## jaqb

Otto Pylot said:


> That's excellent information and exactly what we need to hear. Thanks. I'm assuming that you have no issues with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz?


I bought this cable https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12962 30' and it didn't work.


----------



## OldZorki

netroamer said:


> I have 2 40' Cabernet active cables in service for 2 months. I have tested them with my Murideo generator/analyzer system and they consistently passed all tests from 18ghz to 2ghz. I have them attached to a Sony VW5000 fed by a Radiance Pro and a Sammy 8500. They have both consistently produced a quality and stable image.


And I have 35' Cabernet and it did not support it (I could not connect UHD player to my proj with it, while 6ft cable worked).
Neither 35' active Luxe.
Will wait for CERTIFIED 35' foot cable.


----------



## G-Rex

When all else fails, why not try the DPL certified Ethereal MHX HDMI cable plus Gigabit Accelerator? It is more money than other options, but I wouldn't call it cost prohibitive.


----------



## jogiba

The 15 ft Monoprice 18Gbps 4K 60 cable looks like a good deal .
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=14196&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Otto Pylot

jaqb said:


> I bought this cable https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12962 30' and it didn't work.


..... and that's exactly what we're saying. Netroamer was able to test his cable himself, have it pass, and apparently has no issues. So his info is good info. However, as we've been saying, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to have the same results because there are differences in setups, equipment, etc for anyone to make a blanket statement that it's going to work all of the time, and that includes mfrs claims.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jogiba said:


> The 15 ft Monoprice 18Gbps 4K 60 cable looks like a good deal .
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=14196&seq=1&format=2


Notice that the maximum length is 15', which seems to be the magical "cutoff" for reliability.

Another poster mentioned DPL. They make very good cables as well, and they do have their own certification program. I don't believe that it follows the exact same protocols that an ATC does, but from my understanding they're just about as good for reliability. 

Premium High Speed HDMI cables (ATC tested and certified), DPL, or BJC are the only cables that truly test the cables themselves with some degree of standardization. At least one that can be confirmed by the user.


----------



## Ratman

Heaven forbid when 8K video becomes available! This will be some busy forum.


----------



## doctorwizz

Ratman said:


> Heaven forbid when 8K video becomes available! This will be some busy forum.


8K will require a Super MHL cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> 8K will require a Super MHL cable.


But it can only handle 4:2:0 36-bit  An active cable that requires Super MHL connectors or adapters, and no mention of reliability distance. Probably still a far cry better than current HDMI cables. Not ready for prime time though


----------



## latexii

High Speed Supra (ye the cable, not the car.. owning both thou) worked here with 12m lenght


----------



## kram1

Just bought a 4K Sony XBR-43X800D TV and figure its a good time to update my old HDMI cables. Need a 6 and 15ft cable is all 
Could someone recommend something for me please ?


----------



## narrn001

Ryan Pierce said:


> Finally can confirm I have 4:4:4 working without issues now using an Amazon Basics 6 foot cable.


Hey Ryan, I am having the same issues you did. Screen going blank randomly and lines appearing through the screen etc when 4:4:4 8bpcc [email protected] was used. And I went through many expensive cables including the Monster Platinum and I still can't get a continous signal.

So you say you had luck with the Amazon Basics? I might give this a shot? Im going krazy trying to get 4:4:4 8bpcc 4K 60Hz to work!!!

I can get solid 4:2:0 12bpcc to work properly, but I'm not sure how different it is to 4:4:4 8bpcc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

kram1 said:


> Just bought a 4K Sony XBR-43X800D TV and figure its a good time to update my old HDMI cables. Need a 6 and 15ft cable is all
> Could someone recommend something for me please ?


For the 6' cable, any passive High Speed HDMI cable from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge should work fine. The same would probably be true for the 15' length. If you are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, you may have a little difficulty at the 15' length so all you can do is try. There is nothing magical about an active cable other than you can push for longer distances. If you use a 26AWG wire for your passive cables, that will give you a little better reliability but you may lose some flexibility. Be mindful of the bend radius if the space is tight.


----------



## kram1

Actually I just remeasured and I can get away with a 12ft instead of the 15ft 
So just needing a 6 and 12ft is all 

Could someone please be nice enough to point me to a few links of what might be my best choices 



Otto Pylot said:


> For the 6' cable, any passive High Speed HDMI cable from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge should work fine. The same would probably be true for the 15' length. If you are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, you may have a little difficulty at the 15' length so all you can do is try. There is nothing magical about an active cable other than you can push for longer distances. If you use a 26AWG wire for your passive cables, that will give you a little better reliability but you may lose some flexibility. Be mindful of the bend radius if the space is tight.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Momoprice is one of the sponsors of AVS and you can Google BJC (Blue Jeans Cables) and Media Bridge. Lots of choice but passive High Speed HDMI is what you're looking for. The rest of the stuff (gold connectors, oxygen-free copper, etc) is just marketing hype. If you can find certified cables that come with a certificate of compliance, the better.


----------



## kram1

Otto Pylot said:


> Momoprice is one of the sponsors of AVS and you can Google BJC (Blue Jeans Cables) and Media Bridge. Lots of choice but passive High Speed HDMI is what you're looking for. The rest of the stuff (gold connectors, oxygen-free copper, etc) is just marketing hype. If you can find certified cables that come with a certificate of compliance, the better.


Are there any particular passive cables that stand out and are actually certified ?


----------



## Jonas2

kram1 said:


> Are there any particular passive cables that stand out and are actually certified ?


Yes, Blue Jeans Cable has these that are "Premium Certified":

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm

I have four of these cables in service, GRANTED, I have no device that requires one or that would benefit otherwise, yet, anyway. They work just fine, no better than other HDMI cables I have, but see previous statement! What I don't like: a bit pricey relatively speaking, highly limited warranty. What I do like: they are built well, solid. Beefier than something like the Amazon Basics cables (which claim to be to the "latest standard"), and American made. (Yes, Chinese terminated, but still...) I figured what the heck, I'm giving them a try. So far so good! And the customer service at BJC is great.


----------



## kram1

Theirs a few different cables on that link you posted your talking about the
 BJC Series-FE Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable ?




Jonas2 said:


> Yes, Blue Jeans Cable has these that are "Premium Certified":
> 
> http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/hdmi-cable.htm
> 
> I have four of these cables in service, GRANTED, I have no device that requires one or that would benefit otherwise, yet, anyway. They work just fine, no better than other HDMI cables I have, but see previous statement! What I don't like: a bit pricey relatively speaking, highly limited warranty. What I do like: they are built well, solid. Beefier than something like the Amazon Basics cables (which claim to be to the "latest standard"), and American made. (Yes, Chinese terminated, but still...) I figured what the heck, I'm giving them a try. So far so good! And the customer service at BJC is great.


----------



## kram1

Went with these cables 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...&utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink-2470763


----------



## Otto Pylot

kram1 said:


> Are there any particular passive cables that stand out and are actually certified ?


BJC has cables that they market as Premium Certified. They have their own certification program that may actually be an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). An ATC is one that follows the protocols approved by HDMI Licensing (HDMI.org).

Premium High Speed HDMI cables is the registered name for cables that have been tested by an ATC and will come with a counterfeit-proof label (laser created label) that verifies authenticity. Premium High Speed HDMI cables can be made by various mfrs so it's the registered name, and label of authenticity that you are looking for

Any cable that is truly certified to some sort of standard should come with a label of certification that attests that the cable length you purchased has been tested and verified to pass given levels of performance. 

However, as with any cable made by anyone, no one will guarantee that their cable will perform as advertised 100% of the time for everyone and their particular hardware setup. True certification is your best bet but is not a guarantee.


----------



## Ryan Pierce

narrn001 said:


> Hey Ryan, I am having the same issues you did. Screen going blank randomly and lines appearing through the screen etc when 4:4:4 8bpcc [email protected] was used. And I went through many expensive cables including the Monster Platinum and I still can't get a continous signal.
> 
> So you say you had luck with the Amazon Basics? I might give this a shot? Im going krazy trying to get 4:4:4 8bpcc 4K 60Hz to work!!!
> 
> I can get solid 4:2:0 12bpcc to work properly, but I'm not sure how different it is to 4:4:4 8bpcc.


I actually ended up playing around with the setup and switched to RGB Full 8 Bit, which looks so much better than 4:4:4 8 Bit.


----------



## Jonas2

kram1 said:


> Theirs a few different cables on that link you posted your talking about the
> BJC Series-FE Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable ?


Yes!



kram1 said:


> Went with these cables
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...&utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink-2470763


Excellent. Those should be just fine. I actually spoke with Monoprice right before I bought the BJC cables, and the gent I spoke with had indicated something was coming along this line, he just didn't know when, but I didn't want to wait!


----------



## G-Rex

Has it been confirmed yet whether the next HDMI standard (2.0b or 2.1) which will support HDR 10 with dynamic metadata will work with today's long length active high speed 18 gbps (2.0) HDMI cables? (I.e. Just an HDMI firmware upgrade needed). Or will the chips need to be revised to support more bandwidth, which will mean replacing existing Redmere HDMI cables or Ethereal Gigabit Accelerators?


----------



## narrn001

I finally got RGB FULL (4:4:4) working with [email protected] without issues or dropouts.

All I had to do was disable digital audio from the Nvidia CP and now my HDMI cable works flawlessly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Has it been confirmed yet whether the next HDMI standard (2.0b or 2.1) which will support HDR 10 with dynamic metadata will work with today's long length active high speed 18 gbps (2.0) HDMI cables? (I.e. Just an HDMI firmware upgrade needed). Or will the chips need to be revised to support more bandwidth, which will mean replacing existing Redmere HDMI cables or Ethereal Gigabit Accelerators?


The differences between 2.0a and 2.0b are very subtle and has to do with the handling of the metadata as you alluded to. It may require a firmware update for those panels that have the chipset capability. As far as HDMI 2.1, that will more than likely require a hardware upgrade.

You would have to define what you mean by "long length" cables. If you mean longer than about 25', that is always going to be a problem, at least with today's current HDMI cable technology and available chipsets. Considering the problems that we are seeing now with 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz with lengths over about 15' - 20', once HDMI 2.1 is introduced and the hardware (chipsets) are available I wouldn't be surprised if fiber optic is not the best way to go, as it is now for some with the current technology and long runs.

As we have been saying for a long time, installing conduit for your cable run is the only "future proofing" you can do. At least with an installed conduit, upgrading the cable connection as the cable technology slowly catches up to the panel technology will be a relatively painless process as far as cable swapping goes.


----------



## G-Rex

Longer meaning 35' to 40'. Do you think HDMI 2.0b or 2.1 will be required for HDR 10 Dynamic? 

The Celerity Optical HDMI cable has still been problematic for some. Unfortunate that there is no feedback on the new Tributaries hybrid (glass/copper) optical cable, likely due to it costing big $. 

I have a 4" x 4" metal raceway/conduit installed on the ceiling below the theater. Access doesn't get any better than that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yowza! A 4x4 conduit. You've planned for WAY into the future  Not sure about the metal aspect though but I guess if the cabling is adequately shielded and not touching the conduit all is well. I've only used 2" flex conduit so I don't know if there are any issues at all with metal conduit for cabling. 35' to 40' is pretty long for the high end video standards, at least as it stands now. From what I've read and been told, the current Premium High Speed HDMI cables should be fine for HDMI 2.0b. The qualifier though is that no one is standing by any distances much beyond 20', regardless of what their marketing and certification says. Some just test their cables in a straight line with some sort of source generator at one end and a pattern generator at the other end, which is certainly not real life simulations but they can still claim their cable meets 18Gbps and Deep Color (what ever that really means).

As far as HDMI 2.1, I think we're a little ways off before we start seeing widespread adoption. However, if it requires new hardware (chipsets) that's sort of a moot point unless you are willing to invest in new equipment at the time. It would seem that panel/video technology is quickly outpacing the connection technology, at least for runs longer than about 25'.


----------



## dalec

Turns out there are some issues with the Celerity cable and the receiver that I have (Yamaha RX-A3060). When connected directly between a HTPC (GTX 970) and a TV or monitor (LG 65E6 or LG 27UD68-W), 4K60 4:4:4 works perfectly. However, when the receiver sits between the HTPC and the TV, there is snow, drop outs, and green or black horizontal lines. I don't have another 4K receiver to test with, so I don't know which component is at fault. I've reached out to both Celerity and Yamaha about the issue. Celerity is sending new connectors to try out. I'll report back once I've tested them. I haven't heard back from Yamaha yet.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> Yowza! A 4x4 conduit. You've planned for WAY into the future  Not sure about the metal aspect though but I guess if the cabling is adequately shielded and not touching the conduit all is well. I've only used 2" flex conduit so I don't know if there are any issues at all with metal conduit for cabling.


The conduit needed to be metal for code reasons. The conduit has been thoroughly grounded. All my cables are very well shielded and lay/run along the bottom of the conduit as entry access is from the side. No detrimental effects identified for any of my audio or video runs.


----------



## Ratman

G-Rex said:


> The conduit needed to be metal for code reasons. The conduit has been thoroughly grounded..


Can you elaborate? Why should code require metal conduit for low voltage wiring? Although, a metal conduit should be properly grounded. But that's besides the point.


----------



## G-Rex

Not because of what's in the conduit (low voltage), but because of the space the conduit runs along and joins (space below the theater and the theater room above).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hmmmm.... Shouldn't be a problem but I feel mo'betta with a non-metal conduit.


----------



## HTPC Fanatic

Just to contribute my personal experience (which is apparently all we can do given the lack of standard)

GTX 980 to LG C6 OLED 4k 60hz 444
Amazon high speed 10' Passed
(This is my control cable)

Monoprice 20' premium certified FAILED--No signal detected by TV

Monoprice Luxe 20'
FAILED--No signal

Monoprice Cabernet 25'
PASSED. A surprise as this was the longest cable. 

Hope this helps, good luck with cable lottery everyone!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## G-Rex

I thought the Monoprice Luxe and the Cabernet were the same exact cable/Redmere chip, except the Luxe had a more upscale braided jacket?


----------



## HTPC Fanatic

G-Rex said:


> I thought the Monoprice Luxe and the Cabernet were the same exact cable/Redmere chip, except the Luxe had a more upscale braided jacket?


I'm not certain. I just ordered both to try. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

The braided jacket has nothing to do with the performance of the cable. It just looks nicer and you may pay more for the nicer looking jacket, unless they are more rigorously tested (certified) and the braided jacket is added to distinguish the two, and justify a higher cost. Personally, I don't care what the cable looks like. I want reliable performance and don't want to have to pay for "specs" that really have nothing to do with cable performance (gold connectors, oxygen-free copper, etc). Cable performance is still pretty much a crap-shoot regardless so you may get lucky, or not. As far as the Redmere chipsets go, which version the various cables have is very difficult to get information on.


----------



## HTPC Fanatic

The surprise here is that the 20' premium certified cable failed. I thought that one would work. I think another poster also reported failure in this thread. So the moral of the story is just buy them and test, certifications, even premium certified, doesn't mean much.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## cpzlcu

I'm using those and getting 4:4:4, deep color, etc. at [email protected]:

https://www.amazon.it/Cavo-HDMI-2-0-VELOCITA-Ethernet/dp/B00RVR02SU?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0


----------



## Otto Pylot

HTPC Fanatic said:


> The surprise here is that the 20' premium certified cable failed. I thought that one would work. I think another poster also reported failure in this thread. So the moral of the story is just buy them and test, certifications, even premium certified, doesn't mean much.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Yep. That's exactly what we are saying. As far certification goes, you have to be careful about that as well. If they are ATC certified (Premium High Speed HDMI, a registered name) that's about as good as you're going to get, but even that is not a 100% guarantee all of the time. Just carefully read and understand the specs and go for it. It sucks but that's the name of the current game.


----------



## James Tyson Wheeldon

*Some Clarification please....*

Hi there guys, sorry for butting in I'm just after someone to politely and simply clear up some confusion for me. I was directed here form the NVIDIA forums, I am based in the UK.

Scenario...after being out of the upgrade cycle for some time I have just taken receipt of a new LG 55OLEDB6V TV, it takes its input from a DENON AVR-X2200W which has eight HDMI 2.0a inputs. 

The main inputs to the Denon AV Receiver are my new PC powered by a GTX 1080 (HDMI 2.0b) , a 4K Sky Q Box (HDMI 2.0a).

with the variety of tech terms i've read about in this thread and others I'm slightly overwhelmed, simply I just want to know what settings I should be using to get the most from my equipment.

I presume I should be using 4:4:4 8-Bit in NVIDIA Control Panel for my PC ? If I select that setting It changes the dynamic range to Limited instead of Full, is this correct? or is RGB better?

When I want to watch HDR content via the apps built into my TV (Netflix/Amazon Prime) this is 10 or 12-bit dependent on Dolby Vision or HDR10, correct?

People have spoken of needing to change the icon of the input to a PC on my TV, is this necessary? I have enabled ULTRA HD Deep Colour for HDMI which is the only Port in use on my TV.

But if I switch my AV Receiver over to my Satellite box is this gong to be okay.

I've ordered two Amazon Basics 2.0 18GBps cables in order to do some testing tomorrow.

This is such a mess and I would really appreciate some guidance and clarity from you guys. Thanks very much in advance.


----------



## dalec

dalec said:


> Turns out there are some issues with the Celerity cable and the receiver that I have (Yamaha RX-A3060). When connected directly between a HTPC (GTX 970) and a TV or monitor (LG 65E6 or LG 27UD68-W), 4K60 4:4:4 works perfectly. However, when the receiver sits between the HTPC and the TV, there is snow, drop outs, and green or black horizontal lines. I don't have another 4K receiver to test with, so I don't know which component is at fault. I've reached out to both Celerity and Yamaha about the issue. Celerity is sending new connectors to try out. I'll report back once I've tested them. I haven't heard back from Yamaha yet.


I received the new connectors (free of charge) from Celerity today and they resolved all my issues. 4K60 4:4:4 is working flawlessly now with the Celerity DFO-50P.

Edit: Spoke too soon  The sparkles are significantly reduced, but still a few here and there. One thing that did work (that I hadn't tried previously) was moving the TV over to the non-ARC capable port. This seems to have actually resolved the sparkling.


----------



## G-Rex

I wonder if the Tributaries optical/copper hybrid cable would have a higher success rate at 4:4:4 60 than the Celerity? Too bad it's 3x the $. I would possibly track one down, but I am concerned that HDR10 with dynamic metadata may end up being part of the 2.1 standard, and not 2.0b. The cable is too expensive to wind up obsolete overnight. The connectors on the Tributaries cable are also hardwired, so they can not be updated.


----------



## netroamer

dalec said:


> Turns out there are some issues with the Celerity cable and the receiver that I have (Yamaha RX-A3060). When connected directly between a HTPC (GTX 970) and a TV or monitor (LG 65E6 or LG 27UD68-W), 4K60 4:4:4 works perfectly. However, when the receiver sits between the HTPC and the TV, there is snow, drop outs, and green or black horizontal lines. I don't have another 4K receiver to test with, so I don't know which component is at fault. I've reached out to both Celerity and Yamaha about the issue. Celerity is sending new connectors to try out. I'll report back once I've tested them. I haven't heard back from Yamaha yet.


I tested the Celerity and it performed fine with the pattern generator, at 3840x2160 60hz 4:4:4: and HDR, and a cable test indicated it passed everything from 18ghz down. However when using it with both the Radiance Pro and the Sammy 8500 into the VW5000 it had serious handshake problems and failed to show an image either at startup or if I had a picture, it failed when I switched inputs. It was only here for eval...I sent it back.


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## markrubin

netroamer said:


> I tested the Celerity and it performed fine with the pattern generator, at 3840x2160 60hz 4:4:4: and HDR, and a cable test indicated it passed everything from 18ghz down. However when using it with both the Radiance Pro and the Sammy 8500 into the VW5000 it had serious handshake problems and failed to show an image either at startup or if I had a picture, it failed when I switched inputs. It was only here for eval...I sent it back.


re the Lumagen: was this recently you tested it?
I understand they just released new firmware for HDR with test patterns for the Pro: was looking at it as a matrix switcher


----------



## netroamer

markrubin said:


> re the Lumagen: was this recently you tested it?
> I understand they just released new firmware for HDR with test patterns for the Pro: was looking at it as a matrix switcher


I tested it with the 06062016 Pro firmware and the Sammy 2.005 firmware. About 2 weeks ago.


----------



## HTPC Fanatic

To add to this and further sharing my experience, handshaking appears to be an issue at 4k 60 444 regardless of cable. I previously tested both an Amazon high speed 10' and MP Cabrinet connected to PC. Both cables exhibits loss of signal when switching, e.g., from a video with 24 fps and after exiting PC games. The stop gap solution was to use a software which forces HDMI handshake. The behavior appears to be random. It's not the ideal solution but I'm not aware of a cable that guarantees resolution of this issue. And no, I'm not spending $1k for Audioquest cables that's ridiculous.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## dalec

HTPC Fanatic said:


> The stop gap solution was to use a software which forces HDMI handshake.



What software are you using to do this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## HTPC Fanatic

Hdmiyo as suggested by 10k, a forum member here. You can find it here:
https://mymce.wordpress.com/2010/10/24/hdmiyo/

Let me know if you find a better solution 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## jaqb

I was able to achieve 4:4:4 on [email protected] with this 25ft. cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jaqb said:


> I was able to achieve 4:4:4 on [email protected] with this 25ft. cable.


Consider yourself lucky. At about $1 per foot, that's not a bad price but there is nothing special about the cable, at least as far as the description goes. Congratulations!


----------



## jaqb

Otto Pylot said:


> Consider yourself lucky. At about $1 per foot, that's not a bad price but there is nothing special about the cable, at least as far as the description goes. Congratulations!


The 'special' part of this cable is that it's 24 AWG. I tried 26 AWG cable (25 ft.) before and it had screen flickering with 4:4:4 so I though why not try a thicker cable... and it worked out


----------



## Otto Pylot

jaqb said:


> The 'special' part of this cable is that it's 24 AWG. I tried 26 AWG cable (25 ft.) before and it had screen flickering with 4:4:4 so I though why not try a thicker cable... and it worked out


Wire gauge does seem to make a difference in some situations. The downside is that you lose flexibility so bend radius becomes very important and you will increase the strain on the HMDI inputs if you don't have enough room behind your equipment for a relatively straight-on connection.


----------



## raptor3076

Sorry tried digging through all 29 pages but just wanted to double check. Will the Amazon Basics (latest standard) 15ft cables work for the Samsung k8500 UHD player connecting to a 4k OLED? I get the impression the answer is yes but don't want to order them and find out I just wasted my time and money. This will be running in wall so do I need to get the CL3 rated ones? Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

There are no guarantees. At 15' you have a much better chance of it working but that's not 100%. Amazon has a good return policy so try the cable, but lay it out on the floor first, connect it, and see if it meets your expectations. For in wall, I'd strongly suggest using conduit because you will be changing the cable out in the future as higher video standards change.


----------



## BigScreen

raptor3076 said:


> Sorry tried digging through all 29 pages but just wanted to double check. Will the Amazon Basics (latest standard) 15ft cables work for the Samsung k8500 UHD player connecting to a 4k OLED? I get the impression the answer is yes but don't want to order them and find out I just wasted my time and money. This will be running in wall so do I need to get the CL3 rated ones? Thanks!


Amazon has an excellent return policy, especially if the cable doesn't work as advertised, so there's really no risk besides your time. If it works, fabulous, but don't be surprised if it doesn't. Either way, be sure to post your results, along with a link to the exact cable you used, so that it adds to the running record of knowledge here.

In regards to the CL rating of cables placed in walls, that rating is there to protect you and your home. A CL-rated cable is supposed to keep from turning into a fuse if it catches on fire, which will prevent a fire from spreading inside your walls. Even if it's not code where you live (it is here), definitely use CL-rated cable whenever you are going to bury it in a wall or ceiling space.

Otto's recommendation of using conduit is a very good one. You never know what is coming in the future, and cables/connectors can fail. I've used both the flexible blue "elephant tube" conduit, as well as rigid PVC/ABS conduit, with great success. It's much easier to fish a cable through a conduit than to try and route it past all the obstructions in your walls and ceiling.


----------



## outbreak187

*30'*

Digging through the posts I could not find one confirmation.
Has anyone found a 30' passive cable for 4:4:4 60hz? 
I will be pulling up my moldings to replace my current "mistake" hdmi cable. I'm afraid that the active cable (monoprice etc) will fail me.

Thanks


----------



## markrubin

BigScreen said:


> Otto's recommendation of using conduit is a very good one. You never know what is coming in the future, and cables/connectors can fail. I've used both the flexible blue "elephant tube" conduit, as well as rigid PVC/ABS conduit, with great success. It's much easier to fish a cable through a conduit than to try and route it past all the obstructions in your walls and ceiling.


it is a good recommendation: 

HDMI connectivity issues are an industry embarrassment : you can bet they will always come up with the next version of HDMI/HDCP gear to fix their earlier issues: this will always involve new cables....at the least


----------



## Otto Pylot

outbreak187 said:


> Digging through the posts I could not find one confirmation.
> Has anyone found a 30' passive cable for 4:4:4 60hz?
> I will be pulling up my moldings to replace my current "mistake" hdmi cable. I'm afraid that the active cable (monoprice etc) will fail me.
> 
> Thanks


That's because there isn't one cable that is going to work all of the time for all setups, especially much past 20', and especially a passive cable. Possibly a 24 or 22AWG wire but you will have no flexibility at all to really work with. Bend radius will be a problem. The push to sell 4k/HDR outpaced, by a considerable margin, the connection technology. The mantra is conduit. Install a conduit and you can easily swap/change cables as need be.


----------



## dkscism

I recently acquired the Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active high speed HDMI cable from monoprice and want to test [email protected], 4:4:4 on my Samsung TV. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the easiest way to test this?


----------



## HTPC Fanatic

dkscism said:


> I recently acquired the Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active high speed HDMI cable from monoprice and want to test [email protected], 4:4:4 on my Samsung TV. Pardon my ignorance, but what's the easiest way to test this?


Plug into a PC and set

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## raptor3076

BigScreen said:


> Amazon has an excellent return policy, especially if the cable doesn't work as advertised, so there's really no risk besides your time. If it works, fabulous, but don't be surprised if it doesn't. Either way, be sure to post your results, along with a link to the exact cable you used, so that it adds to the running record of knowledge here.
> 
> In regards to the CL rating of cables placed in walls, that rating is there to protect you and your home. A CL-rated cable is supposed to keep from turning into a fuse if it catches on fire, which will prevent a fire from spreading inside your walls. Even if it's not code where you live (it is here), definitely use CL-rated cable whenever you are going to bury it in a wall or ceiling space.
> 
> Otto's recommendation of using conduit is a very good one. You never know what is coming in the future, and cables/connectors can fail. I've used both the flexible blue "elephant tube" conduit, as well as rigid PVC/ABS conduit, with great success. It's much easier to fish a cable through a conduit than to try and route it past all the obstructions in your walls and ceiling.


I ordered these: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin:7800972011 and can report that at least at the 15' length it seems to be working fine. 

I just got them today so I have only done a couple of checks but no issues so far.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Up to about 20' seems to be the magical distance for a lot of cables.


----------



## frisbfreek

raptor3076 said:


> I ordered these: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics...n_feature_keywords_four_browse-bin:7800972011 and can report that at least at the 15' length it seems to be working fine.
> 
> I just got them today so I have only done a couple of checks but no issues so far.


Interesting... my 10' Amazon Basics cable is not cutting it, so I'm in the market for something better. Maybe I just got a bad one?

Also, I just want to confirm, a proper cable should allow me to run 4k @ 60Hz w/ 4:4:4 _along with audio_, right?


----------



## doctorwizz

frisbfreek said:


> Interesting... my 10' Amazon Basics cable is not cutting it, so I'm in the market for something better. Maybe I just got a bad one?
> 
> Also, I just want to confirm, a proper cable should allow me to run 4k @ 60Hz w/ 4:4:4 _along with audio_, right?


Yes full HD audio. Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.

Stick with cables that are known to work. 

I have a bunch of these. They all work perfect at 4K/60, 444, 600Mhz/18Gbps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A2NQ/

I have these too. They also work perfect and are certified:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15430


----------



## frisbfreek

doctorwizz said:


> Yes full HD audio. Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, etc.
> 
> Stick with cables that are known to work.
> 
> I have a bunch of these. They all work perfect at 4K/60, 444, 600Mhz/18Gbps.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI8A2NQ/
> 
> I have these too. They also work perfect and are certified:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15430


Thanks! I ordered one of the KabelDirekt one (I actually only need 6' for my new PC) as the Monoprice ones still look to be out of stock for a few days. Hopefully this one will work without problems!


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ at 6' you shouldn't have any problems. The problems seem to start at about 20' for some.


----------



## Ratman

frisbfreek said:


> Interesting... my 10' Amazon Basics cable is not cutting it, so I'm in the market for something better. Maybe I just got a bad one??





Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ at 6' you shouldn't have any problems. The problems seem to start at about 20' for some.


Just pointing out that 10' _shouldn't_ be a major issue. Maybe it was a bad cable?


----------



## frisbfreek

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ at 6' you shouldn't have any problems. The problems seem to start at about 20' for some.





Ratman said:


> Just pointing out that 10' _shouldn't_ be a major issue. Maybe it was a bad cable?


Yeah I was thinking maybe I just got a bad cable... but I would like to not take chances with the next one, even if it's only going to be 6'. If I still get issues (intermittent black screens) then it might be my TV (Samsung KS8000), although I'm *really* hoping that's not the case.


----------



## doctorwizz

frisbfreek said:


> Yeah I was thinking maybe I just got a bad cable... but I would like to not take chances with the next one, even if it's only going to be 6'. If I still get issues (intermittent black screens) then it might be my TV (Samsung KS8000), although I'm *really* hoping that's not the case.


Intermittent black screens is a sign that the cable can't handle 18Gbps/600Mhz. 
The KD's work. I have 7 of them of various lengths. The only time I got an intermittent black screen was when I used the 20ft from PC to AVR. And a 10ft from AVR to TV. It only happened once or twice a day with that config. 
When I switched to a 15ft and a 10ft, had no more black screens.


----------



## JonnyVee

Purchased a 20' Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI cable. Running it from a GTX 1070 direct to a Vizio P65. 

Works perfectly so far. No sparkles and i can select 4:4:4 at 60hz. This is one thick cable though.


----------



## frisbfreek

frisbfreek said:


> Yeah I was thinking maybe I just got a bad cable... but I would like to not take chances with the next one, even if it's only going to be 6'. If I still get issues (intermittent black screens) then it might be my TV (Samsung KS8000), although I'm *really* hoping that's not the case.


Cross-posting from the KS8000 forum:

Ok, so my update on the HDMI cable! Since switch cables from the Amazon Basics 10' to the KabelDirekt 6', YCbCr 4:4:4 @ 60 Hz still flickers (!! ), but I then switched to RGB limited, and it didn't flicker once in the past 3 hours of gaming. I am praying that this setting will stay good. I didn't even try RGB full, but by now I'm in the "don't change it if it ain't broke" mindset. I admit that I'm pretty disappointed that YCbCr still isn't working, and I wonder what makes RGB so different from YCbCr in this case. I might order the Monoprice Premium cable just in case the current one is a dud too, and if that cable is good on all settings, I'll return this one from Amazon.

Edit: Ok, so I was brave enough to try out YCbCr 4:4:4 again, and it is now fine! I wonder if I was using an old, bad HDMI handshake when I first plugged in the new cable (I did it while the computer was asleep). I haven't gotten any black screens even on YCbCr 4:4:4 after re-handshaking using HdmiYo. I guess only time will tell if this is a permanent solution, but I am more hopeful now.


----------



## g.j.martin

Hi, I just got an xbox 1 S for UHD playback and the box states to connect it to my directv box for integration. I have done so, is there any loss to PQ for doing this? I only had 1 HDMI 2.0 cable the xbox 1 S supplied, the other I had was an Audioquest forest I had from a while back but I think it is 1.4. my TV is 4K no HDR though. I was having trouble finding a 10-15 ft HDMI cable to go in my wall that was the hdmi 2.0 18gbps. Does the 18gbps matter?


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. The number is the HDMI hardware specification, not the cable spec. In theory, any high speed HDMI cable, passive or active, will meet current HDMI 2.0a specifications, including 4k. If you are installing cable in-wall, you should install conduit because you will be needing to replace/repair/upgrade your cable connection probably sooner than later as video specifications become more demanding. 

Your safest bet, even though there is no absolute guarantee that it will work, is to purchase a cable that has been certified to meet the higher video demands (18Gbps) but you need to be careful. Cable labeling is very deceptive so you need to ensure that the cable is certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center, basically HDMI Licensing) or is certified by BJC or DPL Labs. They will usually supply you with certificate of authenticity that is counterfeit-proof. Even then, 20' seems to be the current maximum reliable distance, but that is not absolute. Some have had reliable cable performance at longer lengths, others could barely make it over 15'. This is the main reason for using conduit. Just because one cable works fine for one person there is no guarantee that it will work for you and your equipment setup. With cable installed in conduit, it's relatively easy to swap out cables until you find one that works well for you.


----------



## Roudan

G-Rex said:


> When all else fails, why not try the DPL certified Ethereal MHX HDMI cable plus Gigabit Accelerator? It is more money than other options, but I wouldn't call it cost prohibitive.


Can u give a link for these two components? I need to 40 ft long. Thx


----------



## G-Rex

https://metrahometheater.com/mhx-hdme12.html

https://metrahometheater.com/ethereal/hdmi-solutions/hdm-ga1.html


----------



## Roudan

G-Rex said:


> https://metrahometheater.com/mhx-hdme12.html
> 
> https://metrahometheater.com/ethereal/hdmi-solutions/hdm-ga1.html



Thanks G-Rex, that is a good news.

Foe confirmation, I still have two questions

1. Have anybody here tried that and work fine as described for 4K 4:4:4 for 50ft?
2. Sounds like only need to have Gabit accelerator which can convert old HDMI 1.4 cable to 18gps? Is it right?

Do you know the prices of both of them ? I have to log in to see the price. I have not done yet. Thanks I appreciate it.


----------



## G-Rex

Is your cable 24 awg and passive in design? If so, the Gigabit Accelerator may work. Ethereal's present MHX cable (with the GA) passes 18 gbps at 15-17 meters (certified at DPL labs to pass 4:4:4). I would assume at 50' with your own 24 awg passive cable it may work, but ymmv. I believe the GA retails for around $500.


----------



## Roudan

G-Rex said:


> Is your cable 24 awg and passive in design? If so, the Gigabit Accelerator may work. Ethereal's present MHX cable (with the GA) passes 18 gbps at 15-17 meters (certified at DPL labs to pass 4:4:4). I would assume at 50' with your own 24 awg passive cable it may work, but ymmv. I believe the GA retails for around $500.


Thanks G-Rex.


----------



## CINERAMAX

can gygabit accelerator work with ethereal top of line velox cables?

To answer my own question they recommend that for future compatibility and some hdr sources the mhx with gyg accelerator is a more reliable solution at 10 meters.


----------



## Rengozu

G-Rex said:


> If you are talking about Velox Active, the answer is no, you should not use it with the GA. I would wait for the Velox Passive HDMI cable and use it with the GA. This cable is due for release in Sept/Oct.


Should it work with a 10m Audioquest Forest cable or would I need to run something else?


----------



## G-Rex

That AQ cable is passive so if it's 24 awg, it may work. I would email AQ to confirm the Forest's guage.


----------



## Darth Omi

Hope this is the right place for this question...

Two months ago my Samsung LN52B750 died and I replaced it with a LG 75UH8500. During the last two months with the new TV I've noticed intermittent black screens. When it happens sometimes it is just one black screen and then it doesn't happen again for a while, sometimes I get the black screen several times with the TV complaining at times that there is no signal but eventually it resolves, and sometimes, in between black screens I get a distorted image with wrong colors (particularly green) - when that happens I just turn everything off and try again and things work. The problem seems to be getting worse. It seems like a HDMI issue and was wondering if this might be a cable issue since I've never had this problem when using the TV's apps. 

My current configuration is:

Cable Box -> XboxOne -> Denon X2200w -> LGUH8500

This is the cable that goes from the Denon to the TV

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A5PDKQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The cable from the Xbox to the receiver is the one provided by the Xbox.

Any suggestions on what to do to troubleshoot this problem?

*Note that when it happens I'm not displaying any 4K content


----------



## doctorwizz

Darth Omi said:


> Hope this is the right place for this question...
> 
> Two months ago my Samsung LN52B750 died and I replaced it with a LG 75UH8500. During the last two months with the new TV I've noticed intermittent black screens. When it happens sometimes it is just one black screen and then it doesn't happen again for a while, sometimes I get the black screen several times with the TV complaining at times that there is no signal but eventually it resolves, and sometimes, in between black screens I get a distorted image with wrong colors (particularly green) - when that happens I just turn everything off and try again and things work. The problem seems to be getting worse. It seems like a HDMI issue and was wondering if this might be a cable issue since I've never had this problem when using the TV's apps.
> 
> My current configuration is:
> 
> Cable Box -> XboxOne -> Denon X2200w -> LGUH8500
> 
> This is the cable that goes from the Denon to the TV
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A5PDKQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> The cable from the Xbox to the receiver is the one provided by the Xbox.
> 
> Any suggestions on what to do to troubleshoot this problem?
> 
> *Note that when it happens I'm not displaying any 4K content


Could be caused by the total length of the cables in that chain. Or a bad cable. What is the length of each cable in that chain? Is that a Xbox One S?
I suggest using these instead http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15430


----------



## sstiglich

*20ft Cable confirmation*

Hi all, i tried several cables at varying price levels that all claimed to be 18gbps 4:4:4 4k compatible running 4k 4:4:4 HDR between my Samsung UBD-K8500 and LG 4k 75" TV. The other cables would work fine on auto or RGB color, but would have dropouts and pink flashes when set to 4:4:4. The solution for me as posted by a few others was this 20ft cable from Monoprice monoprice.com/product?p_id=15431 .

It works great and i have not seen any dropout issues since.


----------



## glabrecque

I have a question for everyone I have a Yamaha RX-A1050 connected to and LG 65e6p OLED and a Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player. While watching 4K movies I see banding in some of the sky scenes. If I bypass the yamaha directly to the TV it goes away so it seems to be a setting in the yamaha. I think switching from 4K Mode 2 to 1 should be the fix but when I do I get no video to pass to the TV. 4K Mode 2 is 10.2 Gbps while Mode 1 is the full 18 Gbps and the cables I am using are rated for 18 Gbps. Or is it possibly a setting on the Samsung?


----------



## Rengozu

G-Rex said:


> That AQ cable is passive so if it's 24 awg, it may work. I would email AQ to confirm the Forest's guage.


Well, just ordered one so crossing my fingers this will be enough to get everything working. Did you have a specific HDMI cord to use with it that you'd recommend if what I already have doesn't do the trick?


----------



## G-Rex

I was told by the Ethereal guru/engineer that when Sony and JVC are encountering any HDMI issues when designing their products, for long runs, they go to the GA and a Ethereal cables to rule out "it's the cable/handshake". This told me a lot. 

If the run is approx 15 meters or less you can go with their passive MHX cable. If over that length I would wait until after the show next month. The GA will remain current for quite some time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I would be a bit suspicious if an employee of a cable mfr company was dropping names to validate the quality of their product. Ethereal does indeed make a good cable and they have their own certification program (it's not the same though as an ATC which is approved by HDMI Licensing). It will be interesting to see if their passive cable is reliable for everyone at 45' to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. I hope so.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> I would be a bit suspicious if an employee of a cable mfr company was dropping names to validate the quality of their product.


I wish that I had listened to DeLorean when he told me his car was capable of time travel.


----------



## G-Rex

Ethereal is an excellent company with a proven reputation. Their HDMI cables with the GA are DPL certified. Even Jim at Lumagen has spoken highly of them for reliability. 

I will be using the GA with their new cable to my 5000es for a 45' run. I am hoping for good results in Sept/Oct...

Yes, the engineer could have been putting it on thick, but I don't believe so.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> I wish that I had listened to DeLorean when he told me his car was capable of time travel.


Didn't DeLorean end up doing time anyway?


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Ethereal is an excellent company with a proven reputation. Their HDMI cables with the GA are DPL certified. Even Jim at Lumagen has spoken highly of them for reliability.
> 
> I will be using the GA with their new cable to my 5000es for a 45' run. I am hoping for good results in Sept/Oct...
> 
> Yes, the engineer could have been putting it on thick, but I don't believe so.


Let us know how it goes. Keeping fingers crossed.


----------



## G-Rex

My fingers crossed as well.  I will let you know how it works out.


----------



## Rengozu

Rengozu said:


> Well, just ordered one so crossing my fingers this will be enough to get everything working. Did you have a specific HDMI cord to use with it that you'd recommend if what I already have doesn't do the trick?


Well, after ordering off Amazon yesterday, I was just emailed that it would take approximately 3 months to arrive from the suppliers warehouse so I cancelled the order. Ughh, anyone have any other good leads for getting one of these or another alternative to try? Didn't get a good vibe from a couple other sites I saw them listed on and was banking on Amazon's return if it didn't work properly. Need 30ft. 


I just want it to all work now and tired of the trial and error headaches.


----------



## G-Rex

Have you called Ethereal and asked for a list of dealers (internet and local)? If you are having no luck, pm me.


----------



## Rengozu

G-Rex said:


> Have you called Ethereal and asked for a list of dealers (internet and local)? If you are having no luck, pm me.


Thanks. Ended up just ordering the Celerity cables after this purchase fell through, but if they don't work for me I'm sure I'll be looking for the Gigabit again.


----------



## G-Rex

Sure thing... Be sure to let us know how you make out with the Celerity.


----------



## netroamer

Rengozu said:


> Thanks. Ended up just ordering the Celerity cables after this purchase fell through, but if they don't work for me I'm sure I'll be looking for the Gigabit again.


FYI...I tested the Celerity fiber optic and it performed fine with the pattern generator, at 3840x2160 60hz 4:4:4: and HDR, and a cable test indicated it passed everything from 18ghz down. However when using it with both the Radiance Pro and the Sammy 8500 into the VW5000 it had serious handshake problems and failed to show an image either at startup or if I had a picture, it failed when I switched inputs. It was only here for eval...I sent it back.


----------



## Rengozu

G-Rex said:


> Sure thing... Be sure to let us know how you make out with the Celerity.


Will do! Don't care what brand I need, I just want it to finally work 



netroamer said:


> FYI...I tested the Celerity fiber optic and it performed fine with the pattern generator, at 3840x2160 60hz 4:4:4: and HDR, and a cable test indicated it passed everything from 18ghz down. However when using it with both the Radiance Pro and the Sammy 8500 into the VW5000 it had serious handshake problems and failed to show an image either at startup or if I had a picture, it failed when I switched inputs. It was only here for eval...I sent it back.


Man, I was so hype on the first part of your review, but then the last part made me cringe again. lol


----------



## netroamer

Rengozu said:


> Will do! Don't care what brand I need, I just want it to finally work
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I was so hype on the first part of your review, but then the last part made me cringe again. lol


I asked the local rep to order me a fresh cable for re-testing. That was a couple of weeks ago, have not heard anything so far.


----------



## dalec

Celerity cable at 50ft has been fine for me @ 4k60 4:4:4 once moved off ARC capable ports; handshake is no longer than that of a 6ft cable connected to a secondary display. I have a ticket open with Celerity for ARC issues and they have said they are working on it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Roudan

dalec said:


> Celerity cable at 50ft has been fine for me @ 4k60 4:4:4 once moved off ARC capable ports; handshake is no longer than that of a 6ft cable connected to a secondary display. I have a ticket open with Celerity for ARC issues and they have said they are working on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Hi dalec, could you provide a link for purchasing this celerity cable? Thx


----------



## dalec

They are available from several vendors, I got mine from My Cable Mart: http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=145

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## DanRad

Success!!! After 3 failed attempts to find a 25' HDMI cable that will transmit [email protected] 4:4:4, I got a passive cable that works! Farstrider Ultra High Speed HDMI cable @ Amazon.com. (I would post a link, but I haven't made enough posts yet to have that priviledge.) At $40, certainly a bit on the expensive side, but not outrageously so.


----------



## Otto Pylot

DanRad said:


> Success!!! After 3 failed attempts to find a 25' HDMI cable that will transmit [email protected] 4:4:4, I got a passive cable that works! Farstrider Ultra High Speed HDMI cable @ Amazon.com. (I would post a link, but I haven't made enough posts yet to have that priviledge.) At $40, certainly a bit on the expensive side, but not outrageously so.


 


_ FARSTRIDER HDMI 2.0 Version Super High Quality Cable v1.4a _- What does that mean? It says "certified ATC quality". Is it certified by an ATC and did you get a certificate of compliance? It appears to be thick so maybe it's a 24AWG, which would be good for reliability. The oxygen-free copper, gold plating etc is just market speak. $1.60 per foot is a bit on the pricey side but if it works, who cares? Nice find.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Otto Pylot said:


> _ FARSTRIDER HDMI 2.0 Version Super High Quality Cable v1.4a _- What does that mean? It says "certified ATC quality". Is it certified by an ATC and did you get a certificate of compliance? It appears to be thick so maybe it's a 24AWG, which would be good for reliability. The oxygen-free copper, gold plating etc is just market speak. $1.60 per foot is a bit on the pricey side but if it works, who cares? Nice find.


Hello-- 1.60/ft isn't terrible for this length but we just released 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 deep color HDMI cable with premium construction upgrades (like our Exoskeleton™ outer weave) for $1/ft at the 25ft length. Check out the last sentence under the 4K 60Hz header in this article (as an AVS Forum vendor I can only link to our articles, not the product itself). 

That article is mostly about the new switching technologies, but we mention our high-end 4K cables early on.


----------



## sirip

DanRad said:


> Success!!! After 3 failed attempts to find a 25' HDMI cable that will transmit [email protected] 4:4:4, I got a passive cable that works! Farstrider Ultra High Speed HDMI cable @ Amazon.com. (I would post a link, but I haven't made enough posts yet to have that priviledge.) At $40, certainly a bit on the expensive side, but not outrageously so.


 @*DanRad* : do you know what the AWG of FARSTRIDER cable is ? It doesn't say on Amazon. I wonder what makes that cable work for [email protected] 4:4:4



Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Hello-- 1.60/ft isn't terrible for this length but we just released 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 deep color HDMI cable with premium construction upgrades (like our Exoskeleton™ outer weave) for $1/ft at the 25ft length. Check out the last sentence under the 4K 60Hz header in this article (as an AVS Forum vendor I can only link to our articles, not the product itself).
> 
> That article is mostly about the new switching technologies, but we mention our high-end 4K cables early on.


 @*Sewell Direct Jared* : I see on your website you have standard and premium models. What's the difference in premium model ? Is it thicker than standard or just better construction that makes it work for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ? And is the premium cable actually tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ?


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

> @*Sewell Direct Jared* : I see on your website you have standard and premium models. What's the difference in premium model ? Is it thicker than standard or just better construction that makes it work for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ? And is the premium cable actually tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ?


Actually, it's both thickness and better construction that allows full support of 4K 60Hz 4:4:4. To be more specific, we purchase our bulk copper wiring from a number of commodities vendors, some of which offer higher-consistencies than others at a bit of a higher price. This can include all kinds of specs that deal with the conductivity of that copper material. From there, the manufacturing process can also help a lot with achieving these specs, including a more strict quality assurance process that ensures even gauge along long strands of wire, and that the twisted pairs are twisted at the correct rate to minimize cross-talk and interference. 

One more note on the AWG standard of measuring conductor thickness: this is an extremely broad non-exact measuring scale since there is a wide spectrum of size between each AWG, and also because of how inconsistent wiring gauge can be along the entire length of a cable with some brands. In other words, the vast majority of longer-length HDMI cable out there advertises 24-26 AWG, and it's not that many brands are all lying or wrong, it's just such a loosely defined system that a lot of crappy cables out there are claiming 24-26 AWG and not successfully supporting 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma. 

Manufacturing processes probably make up most of the difference: a better process can make a 26 AWG HDMI cable perform much better than some 24 AWG HDMI cables we've tested.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

> @*Sewell Direct Jared* : I see on your website you have standard and premium models. What's the difference in premium model ? Is it thicker than standard or just better construction that makes it work for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ? And is the premium cable actually tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 ?


Oh-- and yes our cable has specifically been tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma. In fact, as I was responding to your post earlier, I had the product manager run the test again just for fun and it passed with flying colors.


----------



## sirip

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Oh-- and yes our cable has specifically been tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma. In fact, as I was responding to your post earlier, I had the product manager run the test again just for fun and it passed with flying colors.


 @Sewell Direct Jared : Great !! I am in for a 25 footer. Was that test on 25' ? To get an idea of how stiff it is, what's its AWG anyway ? ETA is 9/5 ?


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

sirip said:


> @Sewell Direct Jared : Great !! I am in for a 25 footer. Was that test on 25' ? To get an idea of how stiff it is, what's its AWG anyway ? ETA is 9/5 ?


Our 25 footer is a 26 AWG wire. I think I can guess what you're wondering about; the better the construction, the thinner the cable can be to support those specs, so the better the user experience all-around (since heavy HDMI cables put a lot of torque on fragile HDMI ports in expensive devices). 24 AWG on our premiums begin at 35 ft and up.

Thanks for the heads up on our lack of specs on our site by the way, I'm having the product manager update those pages with their AWGs.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

sirip said:


> @Sewell Direct Jared : Great !! I am in for a 25 footer. Was that test on 25' ? To get an idea of how stiff it is, what's its AWG anyway ? ETA is 9/5 ?


sorry to keep double-posting, keep missing your second questions.

Yes-- ETA is 9/5, unfortunately there was a lot more demand than we forecasted (that was our first batch of this cable so we didn't have much data to forecast with). So we are out of stock of that length until then, sorry about that!


----------



## sirip

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Thanks for the heads up on our lack of specs on our site by the way, I'm having the product manager update those pages with their AWGs.


Done!! Placed order. While you are at it, please update specs with CL rating of the cables too if certified.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

sirip said:


> Done!! Placed order. While you are at it, please update specs with CL rating of the cables too if certified.


Another good call-- we are updating now (these are CL3-rated).


----------



## tcramer

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Another good call-- we are updating now (these are CL3-rated).


Have those cables been tested at the 30' and 40' lengths also? I personally have a 35 footer right now but you don't have that, so I'd need to go with the 40'. However, if that didn't work I'd have to see if I could stretch a 30 footer to make it work.

Thanks!


----------



## Ratman

tcramer said:


> However, if that didn't work I'd have to see if I could stretch a 30 footer to make it work.


Do they make HDMI cable stretchers?


----------



## tcramer

Ratman said:


> Do they make HDMI cable stretchers?


Haha , maybe that's a million dollar idea!


----------



## DanRad

@sirip

Sorry, I don't know what the AWG is. One of the cables that failed to perform was advertised as 24AWG, and this one feels just a touch more flexible and lighter, so I'd guess 26AWG.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Our 25 footer is a 26 AWG wire. I think I can guess what you're wondering about; the better the construction, the thinner the cable can be to support those specs, so the better the user experience all-around (since heavy HDMI cables put a lot of torque on fragile HDMI ports in expensive devices). 24 AWG on our premiums begin at 35 ft and up.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on our lack of specs on our site by the way, I'm having the product manager update those pages with their AWGs.


What is your certification process? Do you use DPL Labs or an ATC? I noticed the specs given, which are HDMI 2.0 specs, indicate "up to 18Gbps". Is that theoretical or do you actually test a given length for that bandwidth.


----------



## Roudan

I heard from several stores . They said the optic fibre cable is indeed working for long run like more than 40ft or even 50ft. The cost is around $300.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I've heard that also, even though it's not universal. There have been some disappointments. At $300 I'd certainly read the return policy carefully.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Oh-- and yes our cable has specifically been tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma. In fact, as I was responding to your post earlier, I had the product manager run the test again just for fun and it passed with flying colors.


This is interesting.
Now the question is how thick and stiff the cable is (25 or 30 feet versions). Especially the turning radius. Can it handle 90 degree turns.
In anticipation of getting into 4K I have just installed Monoprice cabernet 35 foot cable. But that is known to have hit and miss and was looking for a backup option. I would not know until I run 4k with that cable.
The passive cable is preferred, but there was none available in 30' range and those thicker ones are like a rod, then it's gonna be difficult to deal with.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Notice that Sewell Direct Jared never did answer my questions (post #915). I certainly hope his claims are true. 90 degree turn? If your conduit is big enough (2") that might work but I think someone said the cable is 24AWG. Somebody will buy and test, I'm sure. At least I hope so.


----------



## pizzadave80

I proposed this same question in another post, but it may fit in here as well. I also asked this question on my TV's portion of AVS, as I don't yet know if it is a cable issue or a cable issue.

First off, I am trying to run an Xbox One S to a Sony XBR 65 850C. I have a 1 1/4" conduit in wall running from my tv in a nearby closet, and this leaves me with a 12' HDMI run. I was using a cheap Blackweb 12' cable from walmart back when I was using it for an original xbox one, and my DVR. However, I am seeing some signal problems with the xbox one s, while running a UHD blu ray. The TV goes through flickering of screens, and shows me what signal I have, just like the signal is dropping out and coming back. At times, it even goes blank, like the input isn't there at all. This happens in menus, going from movie to xbox home screen (switching from HDR to standard I assume here). I found that once the movie (Mad Max:Fury Road) started, it never dropped out again. BUT....if I exit the movie to menu, or back to xbox home it does that again. I am looking for advice on HDMI for the 12' run, or if I am crazy and this is what I have to deal with on my setup! The only reason I am pointing toward cable is I saw something similar when I had a different HDMI cable in place with the old xbox and dvr. The screen dropped out on occasion and then came back. Sometimes it would last hours, next time it would do it every 15 minutes. The Blackweb cable solved that, and the Blackweb cable works now, just as long as I don't run HDR.

I attempted to use a Vizio brand "4k" cable, that says UP TO 18 GBPS, but then follows that up with 28 awg, which is too small and tells me the 18gbps is a hoax. 
I attempted an older high speed 4k cable, but it too did not work and in fact was flickering NON STOP, this wouldn't work with any device, so must be a crap cable.

I would like to buy local so I can return the cable without a hassle if it doesn't work for me. I hate paying out the butt for cables locally though, but I am on cable #3 with no luck.

Opinions on the following?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...&skuId=3721001


http://www.homedepot.com/p/CE-TECH-1...2041/205319611


----------



## philkilla

Hello all.

I have a Samsung KS8000 and a homebrew PC I recently installed a GTX 1080 into that's pretty damn wicked fast.

I have a 5 foot and 16 foot Monster "Black Platinum" cable; the short one is for an Xbox One S and the long one was intended for having my PC in another room and 4K gaming on my TV in the living room.

After trial and error I have discovered the shorter cable works brilliantly, 4K movies with HDR play, and I can get full 4:4:4 chroma and the full color pallet on my PC enabled.

With the longer cable once I enable UHD with my PC the screen just flickers, and the xbox won't even display a picture.

I just ordered a Farstrider 15 foot HDMI 2.0 cable, so hopefully this will make everything work out like it's supposed to.


----------



## Otto Pylot

This is the one thing that bothers me about the Farstrider cable. They advertise it as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. The number designation is the HDMI hardware spec, not the cable spec. HDMI cables are either high speed or standard, of which the cable can be either passive or active. Hopefully Farstrider is not mis-representing anything else.

Your loss of 4k at 15' is more than likely the distance limitation that a lot of folks are seeing when trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. 15'-20' seems to be where the trouble starts regardless of the cable mfrs claims. I hope the Farstrider cable works well for you at 15'. Do let us know.


----------



## Rengozu

G-Rex said:


> Sure thing... Be sure to let us know how you make out with the Celerity.



Just got yesterday and have only played around with a little and watched one whole movie, but so far it connects and have had no dropouts. Projector info had it at 4K and 12bit on Mad Max and Star Trek UHD's. Any other stats I should be looking at?

But yea, so far the Celerity (35ft) has been the best long cord solution I've hooked up yet. (Samsung UHD -> Marantz -> JVC rs600)


----------



## philkilla

Otto Pylot said:


> This is the one thing that bothers me about the Farstrider cable. They advertise it as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0 cable. The number designation is the HDMI hardware spec, not the cable spec. HDMI cables are either high speed or standard, of which the cable can be either passive or active. Hopefully Farstrider is not mis-representing anything else.
> 
> Your loss of 4k at 15' is more than likely the distance limitation that a lot of folks are seeing when trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. 15'-20' seems to be where the trouble starts regardless of the cable mfrs claims. I hope the Farstrider cable works well for you at 15'. Do let us know.


Yah I know what you mean about the advertisement silliness. 

Monster is willing to work with me about their cable because, "it should work just like the shorter one" according to their tech guy haha. I should have the Farstrider friday, so we will see.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Monster and AQ make decent cables but they are way overpriced when you can get good cables that perform just as well for a lot less money. I'd never buy from either of them. As far as customer support from Monster, or more precisely, someone in support who knows what they're talking about.... good luck.


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## aaranddeeman

Rengozu said:


> Just got yesterday and have only played around with a little and watched one whole movie, but so far it connects and have had no dropouts. Projector info had it at 4K and 12bit on Mad Max and Star Trek UHD's. Any other stats I should be looking at?
> 
> But yea, so far the Celerity (35ft) has been the best long cord solution I've hooked up yet. (Samsung UHD -> Marantz -> JVC rs600)


How much does it cost?
Looks like Optical cable manufacturers are going to milk the money for some time.


----------



## DanRad

philkilla said:


> Yah I know what you mean about the advertisement silliness.
> 
> Monster is willing to work with me about their cable because, "it should work just like the shorter one" according to their tech guy haha. I should have the Farstrider friday, so we will see.


I hope it works as well for you as the 25' cable worked for me. 

It looks like there are 4 different Farstrider HDMI cables that claim 4k for sale on Amazon--for reference, I'll quote the prices of the 25' version--which range in price from $16.99 to $39.99; only the most expensive one claims Ultra HD. That's the one that worked for me.


----------



## sirip

DanRad said:


> I hope it works as well for you as the 25' cable worked for me.
> 
> It looks like there are 4 different Farstrider HDMI cables that claim 4k for sale on Amazon--for reference, I'll quote the prices of the 25' version--which range in price from $16.99 to $39.99; only the most expensive one claims Ultra HD. That's the one that worked for me.


I was pulling my hair about what the difference between them is. They all look same on paper. And there is no website called FARSTRIDER to contact and find out....So, sticking to known, confirmed tested and CHEAPER Sewell Direct although it is backordered.

BTW, stay away from Redmere cables unless you can get into the attic every once in a while and change the cable. Mine failed after 3+ yrs. "No Signal" on the other end. I hate that damn Fiberglass and roof nails pricking at me...hopefully, this will be the last time.

I don't trust Fiber cables either. They tend to be brittle.


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## Joe Fernand

'Opinions on the following?' - they may work in your system!

There are multiple long threads highlighting that what works in one system may/may not work in another.

Do you have the option to try a 2M (6') Premium High Speed cable as a control to prove your kit is all working together - if that works I'd then start the hunt for a longer cable.

Joe

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

Farstrider is a cable that is apparently being marketed by SewellDirect.com, who's fulfillment center is in Orem, Utah. The problem that I have with them is that I asked one of their distributors who was posting here, Sewell Direct Jared, some specific questions about their claims which I didn't think was out of line. He was answering other posters, especially the ones who had ordered a cable from them but he never answered my questions. That makes me a bit suspicious, especially in light of the fact that he mentions Farstrider but links to Sewell Direct. I certainly hope I'm proven wrong but it seems like we're seeing a lot of "new" cable mfrs popping up with all kinds of claims and when asked specific questions about their claims, they are silent. Caveat emptor.

As far as Redmere cables go, failing electronics after a period of time is one of the "negatives" of active cables that we mention so that potential buyers are aware. I hadn't seen any reports of failed Redmere cables until just recently so it seems that 3 years or so is the life span. However, if you're using a 3 year old cable with Redmere technology, and trying to push the newer video standards, it could be that the cable just can't handle the demands as far as timing, error correction, etc because the chipsets are outdated. That's also another reason why CONDUIT is the mantra. It makes swapping out cable so much easier because until the connection technology catches up with the video technology, cable swapping is going to be around for a long time.


----------



## philkilla

DanRad said:


> I hope it works as well for you as the 25' cable worked for me.
> 
> It looks like there are 4 different Farstrider HDMI cables that claim 4k for sale on Amazon--for reference, I'll quote the prices of the 25' version--which range in price from $16.99 to $39.99; only the most expensive one claims Ultra HD. That's the one that worked for me.


Yah we'll see how it works. The order is arriving tomorrow, so I'll report back after I test it out.

Monster is at least being helpful with the warranty process. I explained to them the specifics of what I was doing and the "techs" response was maybe my settings are not correct. I objectively tested both cables back to back with different options enabled. 

One thing that is clear though, once UHD is enabled on my KS8000, the 16-foot monster cable that is supposedly certified for 27 gig bandwidth fails. The 5-foot version works brilliantly however. 

If I have to test each cable that these manufacturers claim can do it individually, I will. It's NBD.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

tcramer said:


> Have those cables been tested at the 30' and 40' lengths also? I personally have a 35 footer right now but you don't have that, so I'd need to go with the 40'. However, if that didn't work I'd have to see if I could stretch a 30 footer to make it work.
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry for the delay, I was away from my computer for a couple days.

Yes, the longer lengths have been tested and have passed without need of active boosting/extending. We do both real-world testing with major brands of TVs/HDMI source devices as well as with precise HDMI testing equipment. All that being said, performance can occasionally depend on the HDMI source as well as whether there are more devices along the set-up when it comes to longer-length applications.


----------



## Otto Pylot

philkilla said:


> One thing that is clear though, once UHD is enabled on my KS8000, the 16-foot monster cable that is supposedly certified for 27 gig bandwidth fails. The 5-foot version works brilliantly however.


That's one of the reasons a lot of people don't trust what Monster has to day in their advertising. A good 5' passive highs speed HDMI cable should work just as well, without the premium price that Monster charges. Their claims on 27Gbps at 16' is just bogus.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Yes, the longer lengths have been tested and have passed without need of active boosting/extending. We do both real-world testing with major brands of TVs/HDMI source devices as well as with precise HDMI testing equipment. All that being said, performance can occasionally depend on the HDMI source as well as whether there are more devices along the set-up when it comes to longer-length applications.


Testing is one thing, that should be part of your QC/QA process, but are your cables certified by an independent source such as DPL Labs or by an ATC to meet all HDMI 2.0a hardware specs, and do they come with a Certificate of Compliance for the length of cable tested?


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Otto Pylot said:


> Testing is one thing, that should be part of your QC/QA process, but are your cables certified by an independent source such as DPL Labs or by an ATC to meet all HDMI 2.0a hardware specs, and do they come with a Certificate of Compliance for the length of cable tested?


Yes-- independent 3rd party testing is a pretty basic staple of manufacturing HDMI, and we could not stay in business without these certifications. We have ATC certification on HDMI 2.0a hardware specs. 

We get asked A LOT for certificate of compliance (and of course we always deliver it), but after a decade in this industry, we've found that a certificate is only a sign that the brand successfully made a few good cables in the beginning of every certification cycle and that QC/QA is what actually makes consistently good products that follow all the specs years after getting certified. 

You bring up a good point though-- that certifications are basically all the consumer has to go off of. I'm requesting scanned copies of the certificates so I can post them in our branded forum and on our product pages.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Otto Pylot said:


> Farstrider is a cable that is apparently being marketed by SewellDirect.com, who's fulfillment center is in Orem, Utah. The problem that I have with them is that I asked one of their distributors who was posting here, Sewell Direct Jared, some specific questions about their claims which I didn't think was out of line. He was answering other posters, especially the ones who had ordered a cable from them but he never answered my questions. That makes me a bit suspicious, especially in light of the fact that he mentions Farstrider but links to Sewell Direct. I certainly hope I'm proven wrong but it seems like we're seeing a lot of "new" cable mfrs popping up with all kinds of claims and when asked specific questions about their claims, they are silent. Caveat emptor.
> 
> As far as Redmere cables go, failing electronics after a period of time is one of the "negatives" of active cables that we mention so that potential buyers are aware. I hadn't seen any reports of failed Redmere cables until just recently so it seems that 3 years or so is the life span. However, if you're using a 3 year old cable with Redmere technology, and trying to push the newer video standards, it could be that the cable just can't handle the demands as far as timing, error correction, etc because the chipsets are outdated. That's also another reason why CONDUIT is the mantra. It makes swapping out cable so much easier because until the connection technology catches up with the video technology, cable swapping is going to be around for a long time.


Farstrider?  Never heard of it until you brought it up just now.

I'm sorry if I've answered comments out of order-- I didn't expect a ton of response to my comment earlier this week and I had a few vacation days since then and now I'm playing catch-up.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Yes-- independent 3rd party testing is a pretty basic staple of manufacturing HDMI, and we could not stay in business without these certifications. We have ATC certification on HDMI 2.0a hardware specs.
> 
> We get asked A LOT for certificate of compliance (and of course we always deliver it), but after a decade in this industry, we've found that a certificate is only a sign that the brand successfully made a few good cables in the beginning of every certification cycle and that QC/QA is what actually makes consistently good products that follow all the specs years after getting certified.
> 
> You bring up a good point though-- that certifications are basically all the consumer has to go off of. I'm requesting scanned copies of the certificates so I can post them in our branded forum and on our product pages.


Thank you. My apologies on the Farstrider confusion. That was a link from another poster in this thread that I confused Sewell Direct with. My questions about certification to Sewell are still valid none-the-less. It would be helpful to the consumer, if you have ATC certification, to include that with every cable purchase or at least a downloadable pdf that summarizes what was tested and at what length. That's still no guarantee that a particular cable will work given the myriad of consumer equipment, setups, and expectations, but at least it's something. I do believe that part of ATC certification is to provide a Certificate of Compliance. I know that if you use the Premium High Speed HDMI name that a laser-created, counterfeit proof label is affixed to every cable or at least the packaging that it comes in that can be scanned to verify its authenticity. There are a lot of snake-oil salesman cable mfrs and distributors out there now so the pressure is on the legitimate, quality mfrs and distributors to set themselves above the noise.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Otto Pylot said:


> Thank you. My apologies on the Farstrider confusion. That was a link from another poster in this thread that I confused Sewell Direct with. My questions about certification to Sewell are still valid none-the-less. It would be helpful to the consumer, if you have ATC certification, to include that with every cable purchase or at least a downloadable pdf that summarizes what was tested and at what length. That's still no guarantee that a particular cable will work given the myriad of consumer equipment, setups, and expectations, but at least it's something. I do believe that part of ATC certification is to provide a Certificate of Compliance. I know that if you use the Premium High Speed HDMI name that a laser-created, counterfeit proof label is affixed to every cable or at least the packaging that it comes in that can be scanned to verify its authenticity. There are a lot of snake-oil salesman cable mfrs and distributors out there now so the pressure is on the legitimate, quality mfrs and distributors to set themselves above the noise.


No apology needed. 

I think one reason why you'll probably never see a full ATC (or equivalent) certificate packaged with a cable is because those certificates often reveal trade secrets such as supply chain information. Even if the brand is so huge that everyone knows the factory that makes their stuff (like how everyone knows Foxconn is the name of the factory that assembles Apple's products), brands don't typically like to remind their consumers about global supply chain. We typically require resellers to sign an NDA before we send them the full versions of our certifications. 

Since we design our own stuff and contract out the assembly, and since there's no real 'black box' to what we do with HDMI cables, we try to be as transparent as possible to people that care about this kind of thing (like you!) without giving any of our valuable trade secrets away. What really matters to many discerning shoppers is that the product is authentic and certified, and posting an ATC certificate (although I may need to obscure some of our supply chain info) is a good idea. Hopefully I'll be able to post something to that affect soon, but it will not be full documentation for these reasons.


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## Sewell Direct Jared

As promised, I've posted images of our HDMI cable testing and further explanation here in our AVS subforum.


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## Ratman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> No apology needed.
> 
> I think one reason why you'll probably never see a full ATC (or equivalent) certificate packaged with a cable is because those certificates often reveal trade secrets such as supply chain information. Even if the brand is so huge that everyone knows the factory that makes their stuff (like how everyone knows Foxconn is the name of the factory that assembles Apple's products), brands don't typically like to remind their consumers about global supply chain. We typically require resellers to sign an NDA before we send them the full versions of our certifications.
> 
> Since we design our own stuff and contract out the assembly, and since there's no real 'black box' to what we do with HDMI cables, we try to be as transparent as possible to people that care about this kind of thing (like you!) without giving any of our valuable trade secrets away. What really matters to many discerning shoppers is that the product is authentic and certified, and posting an ATC certificate (although I may need to obscure some of our supply chain info) is a good idea. Hopefully I'll be able to post something to that affect soon, but it will not be full documentation for these reasons.


LOL!
Red flags IMHO.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> No apology needed.
> 
> I think one reason why you'll probably never see a full ATC (or equivalent) certificate packaged with a cable is because those certificates often reveal trade secrets such as supply chain information. Even if the brand is so huge that everyone knows the factory that makes their stuff (like how everyone knows Foxconn is the name of the factory that assembles Apple's products), brands don't typically like to remind their consumers about global supply chain. We typically require resellers to sign an NDA before we send them the full versions of our certifications.
> 
> Since we design our own stuff and contract out the assembly, and since there's no real 'black box' to what we do with HDMI cables, we try to be as transparent as possible to people that care about this kind of thing (like you!) without giving any of our valuable trade secrets away. What really matters to many discerning shoppers is that the product is authentic and certified, and posting an ATC certificate (although I may need to obscure some of our supply chain info) is a good idea. Hopefully I'll be able to post something to that affect soon, but it will not be full documentation for these reasons.


We appreciate your response and pictures. However, I have yet to see a Certificate of Compliance reveal supply chain and/or proprietary information. In fact, I think it was DPL Labs that has a detailed explanation of what they test for and why. And if memory serves me correctly, their testing procedures given were rather extensive without revealing supply partners or trade secrets.

To be honest I have trouble with a cable mfr who uses a handheld device to test and certify their cables as meeting all HDMI 2.0a specs and is equivalent to an ATC tested cable.

ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) are testing facilities that adhere to the strict testing and certification protocols as set forth by HDMI Licensing. HDMI Licensing is a subsidiary of Silicon Image. They have testing facilities in Sunnyvale, CA, ; Shenzhen and Shanghai, China, ; France, Hanover, Germany, and Osaka and Tokyo, Japan. They are not a cable mfr but certify cables from various mfrs around the world as meeting the strict HDMI Licensing protocols. In fact, I live about 10 miles from the Sunnyvale, CA testing facility which is also the company headquarters. A road trip for me is coming soon. They certify their cables with the use of a laser printed, counterfeit proof label of authenticity and have copyrighted ( I believe) the term Premium High Speed HDMI Cable to designate the higher video standards. If you scan one of their labels, it just takes to a website that says the cable is authentic. Again without revealing supply chain and/or proprietary information. My feeling is that an ATC cable is not tested with a handheld device.

We genuinely hope that your cables work well for the lengths that you say they do and are stable and reliable with home systems. Curled up on your desktop is one thing, but snaked thru a conduit with bends and then connected to a panel is another matter entirely.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> We appreciate your response and pictures. However, I have yet to see a Certificate of Compliance reveal supply chain and/or proprietary information. In fact, I think it was DPL Labs that has a detailed explanation of what they test for and why. And if memory serves me correctly, their testing procedures given were rather extensive without revealing supply partners or trade secrets.
> 
> To be honest I have trouble with a cable mfr who uses a handheld device to test and certify their cables as meeting all HDMI 2.0a specs and is equivalent to an ATC tested cable.
> 
> ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) are testing facilities that adhere to the strict testing and certification protocols as set forth by HDMI Licensing. HDMI Licensing is a subsidiary of Silicon Image. They have testing facilities in Sunnyvale, CA, ; Shenzhen and Shanghai, China, ; France, Hanover, Germany, and Osaka and Tokyo, Japan. They are not a cable mfr but certify cables from various mfrs around the world as meeting the strict HDMI Licensing protocols. In fact, I live about 10 miles from the Sunnyvale, CA testing facility which is also the company headquarters. A road trip for me is coming soon. They certify their cables with the use of a laser printed, counterfeit proof label of authenticity and have copyrighted ( I believe) the term Premium High Speed HDMI Cable to designate the higher video standards. If you scan one of their labels, it just takes to a website that says the cable is authentic. Again without revealing supply chain and/or proprietary information. My feeling is that an ATC cable is not tested with a handheld device.
> 
> We genuinely hope that your cables work well for the lengths that you say they do and are stable and reliable with home systems. Curled up on your desktop is one thing, but snaked thru a conduit with bends and then connected to a panel is another matter entirely.




One of the listed features on their page..


_*Support for wide angle 21:9 theatrical aspect ratio
*_

Wow. I didn't know you need special cable to support different AR..


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## Otto Pylot

+1


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Otto Pylot said:


> We appreciate your response and pictures. However, I have yet to see a Certificate of Compliance reveal supply chain and/or proprietary information. In fact, I think it was DPL Labs that has a detailed explanation of what they test for and why. And if memory serves me correctly, their testing procedures given were rather extensive without revealing supply partners or trade secrets.
> 
> To be honest I have trouble with a cable mfr who uses a handheld device to test and certify their cables as meeting all HDMI 2.0a specs and is equivalent to an ATC tested cable.
> 
> ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) are testing facilities that adhere to the strict testing and certification protocols as set forth by HDMI Licensing. HDMI Licensing is a subsidiary of Silicon Image. They have testing facilities in Sunnyvale, CA, ; Shenzhen and Shanghai, China, ; France, Hanover, Germany, and Osaka and Tokyo, Japan. They are not a cable mfr but certify cables from various mfrs around the world as meeting the strict HDMI Licensing protocols. In fact, I live about 10 miles from the Sunnyvale, CA testing facility which is also the company headquarters. A road trip for me is coming soon. They certify their cables with the use of a laser printed, counterfeit proof label of authenticity and have copyrighted ( I believe) the term Premium High Speed HDMI Cable to designate the higher video standards. If you scan one of their labels, it just takes to a website that says the cable is authentic. Again without revealing supply chain and/or proprietary information. My feeling is that an ATC cable is not tested with a handheld device.
> 
> We genuinely hope that your cables work well for the lengths that you say they do and are stable and reliable with home systems. Curled up on your desktop is one thing, but snaked thru a conduit with bends and then connected to a panel is another matter entirely.


I hope I was clear enough in my written communication that the little HDMI tester I used for those tests are not what we use to certify the cable. It was a simple thing I had available to me at the moment in hopes to demonstrate the specs that the OP asked about at the beginning of this thread.

Yes-- ATCs are 3rd party labs that certify cables. ATC certificates of course must list the assembly factories and other proprietary information in their disclosure, the document would be meaningless if not (unless perhaps you're talking about a consumer-facing document which isn't an actual ATC certificate but is actually marketing material). 

As for the laser-printed authenticity labels, I believe you are referring to HDMI's premium cable certification (a new certification you can read about here). This is different than an ATC certification and the laser-printed label is licensed for a large sum of money by the HDMI consortium. This new certification is not required for us to claim specs that an ATC test can reveal. We have talked internally about applying for the HDMI Premium certification and licensing those cool labels, it's just a very large monetary investment and is largely considered a marketing expense.


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## Otto Pylot

The Premium HDMI cable certification is only new in that they are now taking the certification program for HDMI 1.4 and testing the higher video standards and bandwidths that are now available with the newer panels and devices to designate the difference to the consumer. Sort of like the old cable labeling of years ago where they actual labeled the cable as HDMI 1.3, 1.4, etc. Which became very confusing for the consumer so HDMI Licensing mandated that all cable mfrs drop the hardware version number from their labeling and just use standard and high speed in the labeling and marketing literature. The problem with that is that cable mfrs have really pushed that again with very carefully worded descriptions so that the consumer is again confused as to what the cable is supposed to do or has been actually rigorously tested for. It's not so much the "cool" label is the fact that without some sort of cable documentation, the consumer has nothing to go on but the market-speak and packaging as a guide. I remember purchasing cables from MediaBridge years ago that came with a little paper certificate that showed that the cable I had purchased had been tested for the HDMI 1.4 specs and passed. I could then go to the website and actually look up the specs that were tested. I've looked at the certificates/labels of authenticity and have never seen any mention of assembly factories and/or proprietary information so I'm not sure where you are getting that. Unless it's a requirement that the ATC's are ignoring, which is doubtful.

What is confusing is that Sewell claims that if the consumer needs 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz to order your Premium 4k HDMI cable. No mention of wire gauge or what bandwidth it is tested at. The only statement is "increased bandwidth to 18Gbps". However, the other "premium 4k" cable, with 22AWG cable, actually lists 340Mhz (10.2Gbps). That is the kind of information we would also like to see on a spec sheet for all cables.

Again, we sincerely hope that your cables work as claimed so that the consumer can begin to have confidence in purchasing a cable for their needs just based on what the mfr claims.


----------



## philkilla

philkilla said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I have a Samsung KS8000 and a homebrew PC I recently installed a GTX 1080 into that's pretty damn wicked fast.
> 
> I have a 5 foot and 16 foot Monster "Black Platinum" cable; the short one is for an Xbox One S and the long one was intended for having my PC in another room and 4K gaming on my TV in the living room.
> 
> After trial and error I have discovered the shorter cable works brilliantly, 4K movies with HDR play, and I can get full 4:4:4 chroma and the full color pallet on my PC enabled.
> 
> With the longer cable once I enable UHD with my PC the screen just flickers, and the xbox won't even display a picture.
> 
> I just ordered a Farstrider 15 foot HDMI 2.0 cable, so hopefully this will make everything work out like it's supposed to.


Good news. The 15-foot Farstrider cable is a success. The "HDMI 2.0" moniker finally had some truth behind it.

My tv passed the 4:4:4 chroma test just fine, games still look brilliant and I tried out BvS on 4k bluray, and HDR was a go.

Not sure what to do about the monster cable I sent in for warranty now haha. Maybe when they send me another I'll tell them how a cable that is a 10th of the cost performed better.


----------



## Roudan

I just bought an 50ft fibre optical cable and will arrive next week. The store said they tested it and it work ped for 4:4:4. But it is very costly $300 Canadian .


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## Otto Pylot

Glad the cable worked. That's good news to hear. Let us know if it remains stable after some use. There is no truth at all in "HDMI 2.0". That was clever marketing to get you to buy the cable but fortunately for you, it worked as expected. Congratulations.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> I just bought an 50ft fibre optical cable and will arrive next week. The store said they tested it and it work ped for 4:4:4. But it is very costly $300 Canadian .


 let's hope that was money well spent. I'm anxious to see how these long fiber cables work so thanks for being the "test bed"


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## philkilla

Clever indeed. I've got to route it back to my back bedroom and HOPEFULLY all will work as intended.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> Roudan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just bought an 50ft fibre optical cable and will arrive next week. The store said they tested it and it work ped for 4:4:4. But it is very costly $300 Canadian .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> let's hope that was money well spent. I'm anxious to see how these long fiber cables work so thanks for being the "test bed"
Click to expand...

Thanks Otto, when I receive it, how do I test if it can pass 4:4:4 60hz with Samsung UHD player? Thx


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## aaranddeeman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Oh-- and yes our cable has specifically been tested for 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 chroma. In fact, as I was responding to your post earlier, I had the product manager run the test again just for fun and it passed with flying colors.






aaranddeeman said:


> This is interesting.
> Now the question is how thick and stiff the cable is (25 or 30 feet versions). Especially the turning radius. Can it handle 90 degree turns.
> In anticipation of getting into 4K I have just installed Monoprice cabernet 35 foot cable. But that is known to have hit and miss and was looking for a backup option. I would not know until I run 4k with that cable.
> The passive cable is preferred, but there was none available in 30' range and those thicker ones are like a rod, then it's gonna be difficult to deal with.


Can you tell me how think the cable is and also the turning radius etc.


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## Otto Pylot

Roudan said:


> Thanks Otto, when I receive it, how do I test if it can pass 4:4:4 60hz with Samsung UHD player? Thx


Sorry. That's up to you to figure that out.


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## DanRad

Excellent. We're now 2 for 2 with Farstrider (a 15-footer and a 25-footer). Makes me wonder if the 33- and 50-foot cables work as advertised.


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## LRS3

Otto Pylot said:


> let's hope that was money well spent. I'm anxious to see how these long fiber cables work so thanks for being the "test bed"


I've had a 40-foot Celerity fiber cable for several months now, but didn't have a UHD Blu-ray player to test it out fully until today. I haven't had any significant problems with conventional 1080p/1080i/720p sources. I'm running all my sources via regular HDMI cables (typically 6-foot Blue Jeans Cable Series-FE) into a Denon 7200WA receiver and then via 40-foot Celerity cable from the receiver to a Sony 940D display.

The only issue I've had is that the handshake will typically flash 1-3 times when I first turn on the system, but, as I'm using a Harmony remote, some fussing with the turn-on sequences and delays probably would resolve it. After a few seconds, the connection is rock solid, so I really don't worry about it.

Today, I got a Panasonic DMP-UB900 UHD Blu-ray player. I simply replaced my older Panasonic Blu-ray player using the same connection: 6-foot Blue Jeans Cable HDMI from the UHD player to the receiver and then 40-foot Celerity cable to the display.

My one-day experience with this has been great. No problems at all. Tonight, I watched the Star Trek 2009 UHD disc without a single HDMI connection issue. As you can see from the attached photo, I'm easily getting a 4:4:4/12-bit signal to the display. No dropouts at all.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Thanks. This is encouraging.


----------



## Big Blue Frontend

For anyone still having problems with this, after going through a few different cables, I found out something about my TV.

HDMI1 and HDMI2 don't seem support 4:4:4 @ 60hz. HDMI3 works perfectly at 4:4:4 @ 60hz with a 980GTX and the B6 LG OLED 55". 

I'm not sure if my HDMI1 and 2 ports are defective, but I read on another site that certain monitors don't support 4:4:4 @ 60hz on every HDMI port.

If you're having problems, try another HDMI port on your TV.

I saw this on a website:

_"LG UB8500 4K60p (60Hz) is tested working with Open Hour Chameleon with Deep Color turn on in HDMI Port 3. HDMI Port 1 and 2 in LG UB8500 only support YUV420 for 60Hz which is not supported by RK3288."

_This might be a common thing with displays...


----------



## aaranddeeman

Big Blue Frontend said:


> For anyone still having problems with this, after going through a few different cables, I found out something about my TV.
> 
> HDMI1 and HDMI2 don't seem support 4:4:4 @ 60hz. HDMI3 works perfectly at 4:4:4 @ 60hz with a 980GTX and the B6 LG OLED 55".
> 
> I'm not sure if my HDMI1 and 2 ports are defective, but I read on another site that certain monitors don't support 4:4:4 @ 60hz on every HDMI port.
> 
> If you're having problems, *try another HDMI port on your TV.
> *
> I saw this on a website:
> 
> _"LG UB8500 4K60p (60Hz) is tested working with Open Hour Chameleon with Deep Color turn on in HDMI Port 3. HDMI Port 1 and 2 in LG UB8500 only support YUV420 for 60Hz which is not supported by RK3288."
> 
> _This might be a common thing with displays...


Instead of just trying another HDMI port "RTFM" may be the first step..


----------



## Big Blue Frontend

Show me where in the lg-OLED55B6P manual it says, "Our TV's a piece of ****. Only HDMI3 works as advertised," and I'll EAT CROW.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hold on guys, let's maintain civility. I think there are a lot of tv's that usually only have one HDMI port capable of the magical 4:4:4 @60Hz, but the manuals are really vague about that. I've found that the manuals, in general, are poorly written, especially for the folks here who know more than the average consumer. We are a special group


----------



## Joe Fernand

Big Blue - as above it is pretty much the norm for TV's to support different Features on the various HDMI Input ports, it has been that way since the early days of flat panel TV's.

It is also pretty common due to internal processing limitations to find some video features are not mutually exclusive so to enable one Feature you have to disable another Feature - Pioneer introduced that 'trick' back in the early days of Plasma Displays.

As ever money is the driving force - if you can shave a $ or two from the cost of each HDMI port, and associated processing, a few hundred thousand times you can see the rationale behind the move.

Joe

_'The Special One's" _


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

aaranddeeman said:


> Can you tell me how think the cable is and also the turning radius etc.


Our cable has a turning radius of 180 degrees without kinking but I don't think that helps you with your question since there's inevitably a small rounded angle (unless, of course, the cable is kinking which is undesireable).

So, I suppose the best way to answer your question (and your earlier question about 90 degree turns) is by showing our cable doing a 90 degree turn. There is a bit of roundness to the turn, and the nylon weave is meant to make it impossible to kink the cable while it does sharp turns, and so the weave adds a little 'roundness' to the turn in order to protect the conductor from kinking and becoming weak/brittle as you can see:


----------



## aaranddeeman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Our cable has a turning radius of 180 degrees without kinking but I don't think that helps you with your question since there's inevitably a small rounded angle (unless, of course, the cable is kinking which is undesireable).
> 
> So, I suppose the best way to answer your question (and your earlier question about 90 degree turns) is by showing our cable doing a 90 degree turn. There is a bit of roundness to the turn, and the nylon weave is meant to make it impossible to kink the cable while it does sharp turns, and so the weave adds a little 'roundness' to the turn in order to protect the conductor from kinking and becoming weak/brittle as you can see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler


Thank you. That was very helpful.
Looks like the availability date has now moved to sep end.


Also not the specifications on the webpage is screwed up. There is double copy paste.

_Specifications

Increased bandwidth to 18 Gbps
Resolutions of up to 4k at 50 and 60 fps
Up to 32 audio channels
Up to 1536 kHz audio sample frequency
Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to up to 4 users
Support for wide angle 21:9 theatrical aspect ratio
Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
Updated CEC extensions for more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
Support for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 chroma
Support for 25 fps 3D formats
Backwards compatible with high speed (category 2) HDMI cables
HDCP 2.2 Compliant
*26 awg 7.3mm*
Increased bandwidth to 18 Gbps
Resolutions of up to 4k at 50 and 60 fps
Up to 32 audio channels
Up to 1536 kHz audio sample frequency
Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to up to 4 users
Support for wide angle 21:9 theatrical aspect ratio
Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
Updated CEC extensions for more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
Support for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 chroma
Support for 25 fps 3D formats
Backwards compatible with high speed (category 2) HDMI cables
HDCP 2.2 Compliant
*28awg 7.3mm*
CL3_


This is not your fault, but the one and the only "most helpful review has this". (I couldn't stop laughing..  )

*Pros: This cable looks good connected to my black TV and black/silver HDMI sources*


----------



## Otto Pylot

So is it 26AWG or 28AWG?  That could be the difference between having the cable work reliably at long distance or not.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> So is it 26AWG or 28AWG?  That could be the difference between having the cable work reliably at long distance or not.


As long as the cable "looks" good (as that reviewer says), we should be fine...


----------



## Otto Pylot

aaranddeeman said:


> As long as the cable "looks" good (as that reviewer says), we should be fine...


Yeah. All of my really cool, color coded HDMI cables are hidden behind the console I know they look cool cause I saw them once


----------



## Rengozu

aaranddeeman said:


> As long as the cable "looks" good (as that reviewer says), we should be fine...


I think they need to have a cool name too. 


And after a week of using, the Celerity )30ft) cable I got is still working just fine. Not one drop out. Only real thing is turning the projector on first before the bluray player as the other way around doesn't always trigger a connection, but no real complaints from me.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

aaranddeeman said:


> Can you tell me how think the cable is and also the turning radius etc.





aaranddeeman said:


> Thank you. That was very helpful.
> Looks like the availability date has now moved to sep end.
> 
> 
> Also not the specifications on the webpage is screwed up. There is double copy paste.
> 
> _Specifications
> 
> Increased bandwidth to 18 Gbps
> Resolutions of up to 4k at 50 and 60 fps
> Up to 32 audio channels
> Up to 1536 kHz audio sample frequency
> Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
> Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to up to 4 users
> Support for wide angle 21:9 theatrical aspect ratio
> Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
> Updated CEC extensions for more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
> Support for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 chroma
> Support for 25 fps 3D formats
> Backwards compatible with high speed (category 2) HDMI cables
> HDCP 2.2 Compliant
> *26 awg 7.3mm*
> Increased bandwidth to 18 Gbps
> Resolutions of up to 4k at 50 and 60 fps
> Up to 32 audio channels
> Up to 1536 kHz audio sample frequency
> Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
> Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to up to 4 users
> Support for wide angle 21:9 theatrical aspect ratio
> Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
> Updated CEC extensions for more expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point
> Support for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 chroma
> Support for 25 fps 3D formats
> Backwards compatible with high speed (category 2) HDMI cables
> HDCP 2.2 Compliant
> *28awg 7.3mm*
> CL3_
> 
> 
> This is not your fault, but the one and the only "most helpful review has this". (I couldn't stop laughing..  )
> 
> *Pros: This cable looks good connected to my black TV and black/silver HDMI sources*


Ha, yeah, well the cables are super-new so I think we are hoping for some AVS forum peeps to give us some more helpful reviews


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Rengozu said:


> I think they need to have a cool name too.


Now accepting suggestions.


----------



## Ratman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Now accepting suggestions.


Bond Cables....James Bond.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

sirip said:


> @Sewell Direct Jared : Great !! I am in for a 25 footer. Was that test on 25' ? To get an idea of how stiff it is, what's its AWG anyway ? ETA is 9/5 ?


 @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).

Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.

Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).
> 
> Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.
> 
> Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


Thanks for the promo.
I am just preparing for arrival of 4K and do not have the equipment yet.
Could you share the end date for the promo. (Also the ETA is 09/29 so the is the promo only for preorder?)


Edit: I propose you should knock off the shipping (at least for AVSers) for the preorders. I can understand if the cable is in stock.


----------



## tcramer

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).
> 
> Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.
> 
> Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


I'd be happy to order, test and review the 30 footer as well. If you get an update on the ETA and if end of September is accurate, please let us know!


----------



## mase1981

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).
> 
> Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.
> 
> Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


whats the price for these cables?


----------



## wpmcgree

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).
> 
> Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.
> 
> Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


Jared,

How much are your 3ft and 6ft cables shipped to 06851?

Heard great things and heard you have some pretty good deals on them. I have been using Mediabridge but these seem to have way better specs. Just got a brand new UN65KS8000 and an Integra 4K receiver so I want a cable that will get the most out of my equipment. 

I don't have enough posts to send you a PM. Maybe try sending me one. 

Thanks again Jared.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ the cable is just the data pipe. It has nothing do with maximizing your equipment. It either works or it doesn't. Cable performance specs need to be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Unless you see/hear very obvious problems with your current cables there is no requirement to swap out your cables.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Roudan

Hi

Could you recommend a 3 ft 4K cable or 2ft ? Could you give a link? I realize I need one short cable from Samsung 8500 to Marantz 7702mk2. Then I can use another 40ft fibre optics from Marantz to JVCrs500. Is this connection correct? Thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

At 3', practically any passive high speed HDMI cable will work. No such think as a 4k cable. Just look for a certified high speed HDMI cable and you'll be fine. Your problem may be the 40' cable. A fiber optic cable will probably work but keep your receipt at hand and pay attention to the return policy. At 40' I'm assuming you will be using conduit if this is an in-wall installation.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> At 3', practically any passive high speed HDMI cable will work. No such think as a 4k cable. Just look for a certified high speed HDMI cable and you'll be fine. Your problem may be the 40' cable. A fiber optic cable will probably work but keep your receipt at hand and pay attention to the return policy. At 40' I'm assuming you will be using conduit if this is an in-wall installation.


Thanks Otto. Does it require 18gbps for 3ft if it is on the same chain with my fibre optics. I have a existing 3ft high speed but only 10gbps. Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

I don't think the extra 3' will make a difference. But if you want to have piece of mind, at least for that part of your chain, just look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. Those are cables that have been certified to meet the HDMI 2.0b hardware specs and will come with a label of authenticity. The Premium High Speed HDMI Cable designation can be a applied to cables made from various mfrs because it is not a particular cable mfr but a certification process that is approved by HDMI Licensing.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> I don't think the extra 3' will make a difference. But if you want to have piece of mind, at least for that part of your chain, just look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. Those are cables that have been certified to meet the HDMI 2.0b hardware specs and will come with a label of authenticity. The Premium High Speed HDMI Cable designation can be a applied to cables made from various mfrs because it is not a particular cable mfr but a certification process that is approved by HDMI Licensing.


Thanks Otto. Appreciate your help. If I connect Samsung to projector director for video using 40ft fiber optics, then use 3ft from Samsung to Marantz for audio , then this 3ft should be ok if I just use existing old high speed cable ? Can I do that ? Thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

Why don't you connect the projector directly to the Marantz (receiver) and then just use an HDMI cable from the receiver to the tv? Audio and video from the projector goes to the Marantz and then just video passes to the tv (as long as you disable the audio on the tv) so that the receiver handle the audio portion only. Guess I'm a bit confused on your setup.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

wpmcgree said:


> Jared,
> 
> How much are your 3ft and 6ft cables shipped to 06851?
> 
> Heard great things and heard you have some pretty good deals on them. I have been using Mediabridge but these seem to have way better specs. Just got a brand new UN65KS8000 and an Integra 4K receiver so I want a cable that will get the most out of my equipment.
> 
> I don't have enough posts to send you a PM. Maybe try sending me one.
> 
> Thanks again Jared.


Our shipping is around $6-7 to 06851 for those lengths right now, and these are also available on Amazon Prime.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

mase1981 said:


> whats the price for these cables?


You can check the price after the 20% discount by going to this thread on our AVS subforum and clicking on the banner at the top of that thread. 

Sorry about all the clicking-- AVS vendors aren't allowed to link directly to product pages in the general AVS forum but we can from our AVS subforum.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

tcramer said:


> I'd be happy to order, test and review the 30 footer as well. If you get an update on the ETA and if end of September is accurate, please let us know!


Excellent-- that's basically the reason to open up the discount to you AVS peeps so we can get some meaningful reviews on these.

I talked to supply chain and it does look like end of Sept. is accurate.

This discount will be good for the next month.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

aaranddeeman said:


> Thanks for the promo.
> I am just preparing for arrival of 4K and do not have the equipment yet.
> Could you share the end date for the promo. (Also the ETA is 09/29 so the is the promo only for preorder?)
> 
> 
> Edit: I propose you should knock off the shipping (at least for AVSers) for the preorders. I can understand if the cable is in stock.


Unfortunately 20% + free shipping would put us underwater on many scenarios (especially residential and rural deliver which costs us a bit extra).


----------



## aaranddeeman

Otto Pylot said:


> Why don't you connect the *projector* directly to the Marantz (receiver) and then just use an HDMI cable from the receiver to the tv? Audio and video from the *projector* goes to the Marantz and then just video passes to the tv (as long as you disable the audio on the tv) so that the receiver handle the audio portion only. Guess I'm a bit confused on your setup.


You mean Smasung UHD?
But only if his Marantz is HDCP 2.2..


----------



## Roudan

aaranddeeman said:


> Otto Pylot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you connect the *projector* directly to the Marantz (receiver) and then just use an HDMI cable from the receiver to the tv? Audio and video from the *projector* goes to the Marantz and then just video passes to the tv (as long as you disable the audio on the tv) so that the receiver handle the audio portion only. Guess I'm a bit confused on your setup.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Smasung UHD?
> But only if his Marantz is HDCP 2.2..
Click to expand...

My marantz is HDCP 2.2. I just bought 6ft Sewell directs 4K cable . Thanks guys.


----------



## Turboman750

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> @sirip -- Marketing is wanting to run a 20% promo for AVS forum members, promo has taken effect just now. I just didn't want you to see our ads on AVS Forum and think how lame it was that you paid full price. If you PM me your order number I can have them apply the discount to your order (I believe you haven't paid yet since these haven't shipped out yet).
> 
> Anyone else reading this can also get the discount through our branded subforum here.
> 
> Also, sorry I missed your question earlier about the ETA, unfortunately for the 30 ft I'm seeing an ETA of 9/30 right now. Supply manager is in a meeting so I can't ask him if that's accurate, so if that changes I'll let you know. To answer your other question, our 30 ft is 26 AWG.


Thank you Jared,

I just purchased your 25 ft Premium. I've been having difficulty getting 4k 60hz chroma 4:4:4 deep color on my 10bit TV at 25 feet.

I'm hoping this cable will end my search.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Turboman750 said:


> Thank you Jared,
> 
> I just purchased your 25 ft Premium. I've been having difficulty getting 4k 60hz chroma 4:4:4 deep color on my 10bit TV at 25 feet.
> 
> I'm hoping this cable will end my search.


Since 10-bit color depth at 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 exceeds Rec.2020 (which is either 4K 30Hz 4:4:4 10/12-bit or 4K 60Hz w/subsampled chroma 10/12-bit), I think it's likely that it will often depend on how good of a signal your source can send down that longer-than-usual cable (I suppose technically any spec relies first and foremost on the source but I think you know what I mean) but let me know how it goes!


----------



## mark.davis.bish

Hi Jared, do you know how much shipping to the UK is. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


----------



## Turboman750

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> Since 10-bit color depth at 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 exceeds Rec.2020 (which is either 4K 30Hz 4:4:4 10/12-bit or 4K 60Hz w/subsampled chroma 10/12-bit), I think it's likely that it will often depend on how good of a signal your source can send down that longer-than-usual cable (I suppose technically any spec relies first and foremost on the source but I think you know what I mean) but let me know how it goes!


Forgive my ignorance Jared,

I only recently started playing around with TV's so perhaps you could provide some insight into this. I'm hooking up my 10 bit 4k TV to my Nvidia GTX 1080 via your 25 ft cable. Is there a way to specify an 8 bit signal rather than a 10 bit?

I'm assuming it would be somewhere within the Nvidia control panel but I've never played around with this specifically.


----------



## Sewell Direct Jared

Turboman750 said:


> Forgive my ignorance Jared,
> 
> I only recently started playing around with TV's so perhaps you could provide some insight into this. I'm hooking up my 10 bit 4k TV to my Nvidia GTX 1080 via your 25 ft cable. Is there a way to specify an 8 bit signal rather than a 10 bit?
> 
> I'm assuming it would be somewhere within the Nvidia control panel but I've never played around with this specifically.


I wish I knew, I'm looking at my own Nvidia control panel and am only finding an option for either 16-bit or 32-bit color depth, so I'm no help, sorry!


----------



## Turboman750

Sewell Direct Jared said:


> I wish I knew, I'm looking at my own Nvidia control panel and am only finding an option for either 16-bit or 32-bit color depth, so I'm no help, sorry!












8bpc seems to be 8 bit which is what my video card is outputting to the TV.


----------



## JonnyVee

Turboman750 said:


> 8bpc seems to be 8 bit which is what my video card is outputting to the TV.


What Tv? Try a YCbCr color format at 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 and that may enable 10 bit. I have a P65 and 10-bit is only supported under certain conditions, especially at 4k/60Hz.


----------



## Julian01

Thought I'd chime in here. 
My HTPC
I'm set up a bit different with my EVGA SSC GTX970 to Denon x4200w avr to Visio 2016-P50-C1 tv/monitor.
here my control panel with settings - arc and cec working fine - chromosub is enable on the display
I just purchased the monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 High Speed HDMI Cable in a 40' length to hopefully enable 60hz. to stick.
Sometimes it stays enabled other times ?
I have an old 35' fat hdmi cable from monoprice right now.
I visited the site Sewell Direct and did not see an appropriate selection from. Maybe I looked to quick.
also bought a new 6' certified cable to switch out an Amazon Basics hi-speed cable.
Video seems excellent now, but I'll try to get more out of it.
The screenshot from the poster above works good here.


----------



## pbc

Are there any 20 foot cables that pass these specs available in Canada?


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Are there any 20 foot cables that pass these specs available in Canada?


There are no guarantees. All you can do is try and keep your receipt.


----------



## gasrc

So what cables (under $50) so far have been verified for 444 at 60hz at at least 25ft with most hardware?

Just because Sewell is an official vendor here and vocal and not dodging questions, I wanna try his product, but the 25 footer wont be available til the end of the month. I want a cable for next week.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gasrc said:


> So what cables (under $50) so far have been verified for 444 at 60hz at at least 25ft with most hardware?
> 
> Just because Sewell is an official vendor here and vocal and not dodging questions, I wanna try his product, but the 25 footer wont be available til the end of the month. I want a cable for next week.


As we have been saying all along, there are no guarantees. Just take a chance, read the return policies, and keep your receipt.


----------



## aaranddeeman

gasrc said:


> So what cables (under $50) so far have been verified for 444 at 60hz at at least 25ft with most hardware?
> 
> Just because Sewell is an official vendor here and vocal and not dodging questions, I wanna try his product, but the 25 footer wont be available til the end of the month. I want a cable for next week.


May be you can buy multiple cables (that are 100% returnable) and try what works.
Monoprice may be the obvious first stop.


----------



## Philippos

Hello i am desperate to find a *7-10m HDMI cable* that supports *[email protected] 4:4:4 Chroma*.I have already tried 2 10m cables with no success.
But i have tried a simple cheap _3m HDMI 1.4 cable_ and works perfectly.But my pc with the gtx970 is far and i need at least a 7m cable.
Please help me i can't play any game at [email protected]


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is no such thing as an "HDMI 1.4" cable. The number designation is the HDMI hardware version, not the cable version. What you need is a High Speed HDMI cable. Practically any passive HDMI cable mfr'd today will meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. Your problem is what a lot of people are experiencing with the more demanding video standards and that's distance. Most people seem to start seeing some sort of issues past about 15' - 20'. There is no one cable that will be guaranteed to work for everyone for lots of reasons. You may want to consider an active cable with something like Redmere technology to make sure the signal gets to your panel with no errors. Keep your cable run as straight as possible. In other words, be mindful of bend radius. You will probably have to try various cables until you find one that works well with your equipment and setup. Cable mfrs' will make all kinds of claims so just read carefully, pay attention to the return policies, and keep your receipts.


----------



## Philippos

For example i have found that cable.
amazon.de/dp/B01I5ABVBS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2QK9U05ANFS9B&coliid=I3CS9TH2X0ZMYR&psc=1
All the specs i think are right.What do you say will that work?


----------



## mr stroke

Has anyone had any luck with the MonoPrice Cabernet Ultra CL2 at 35 ft?














Can't get my Sony 940D to get 4:4:4 @60hz with a MediaBridge 35ft cable. I tried a 15ft KabelDirekt cable and it works fine but they don't sell 35ft+ :\


----------



## Otto Pylot

Some have had luck at over 25', some haven't. The fact that one cable worked at 15' but another one didn't at 35' demonstrates the distance limitation that a lot of people are having with various cables. All you can do is carefully read the return policy and try. Try to keep the cable run as straight as possible with no sharp bends. At 35' are you running in-wall or outside wall?


----------



## mr stroke

Otto Pylot said:


> Some have had luck at over 25', some haven't. The fact that one cable worked at 15' but another one didn't at 35' demonstrates the distance limitation that a lot of people are having with various cables. All you can do is carefully read the return policy and try. Try to keep the cable run as straight as possible with no sharp bends. At 35' are you running in-wall or outside wall?


outside wall


----------



## dalec

This isn't entirely HDMI cable related, but if you have an LG set (specifying a 65E6 in my case) and are trying to run 4K60 4:4:4 at full levels (0-255), make sure you set black level to "high" from the default of "low" -- otherwise you'll get sparkling pixels which look a lot like an HDMI cable error. Playing the game "INSIDE" on a PC configured in this way will immediately show sparkles at 4K if you have the wrong setting. Spent a long time and several hardware changes tracking this down :-/


----------



## Otto Pylot

mr stroke said:


> outside wall


That's good. It will make swapping cables easier. Dalec's suggestion is a good one so I'd pursue that first. If it does turn out to be cable related then your only option is try different cables until you find one that meets your requirements. Distance is the killer here so some cables just work better than others. Everyone's setup and equipment is different so there is no one cable that is guaranteed to work for all. Good luck.


----------



## jaqb

Philippos said:


> Hello i am desperate to find a *7-10m HDMI cable* that supports *[email protected] 4:4:4 Chroma*.I have already tried 2 10m cables with no success.
> But i have tried a simple cheap _3m HDMI 1.4 cable_ and works perfectly.But my pc with the gtx970 is far and i need at least a 7m cable.
> Please help me i can't play any game at [email protected]


 At those distances you'll need at least an *AWG 24* cable. (= AWG 24 or lower; lower AWG translates to thicker wires) You should choose the shortest possible cable for you, for the best chance of success. (e.g. 25ft. = 7.6m). You can thank me later


----------



## Otto Pylot

jaqb said:


> At those distances you'll need at least an *AWG 24* cable. (= AWG 24 or lower; lower AWG translates to thicker wires) You should choose the shortest possible cable for you, for the best chance of success. (e.g. 25ft. = 7.6m). You can thank me later


We've been recommending using a smaller AWG wire for sometime now. The problem is loss of flexibility and increased strain on the input, and that still doesn't guarantee that it's going to work across the board.


----------



## Philippos

jaqb said:


> At those distances you'll need at least an *AWG 24* cable. (= AWG 24 or lower; lower AWG translates to thicker wires) You should choose the shortest possible cable for you, for the best chance of success. (e.g. 25ft. = 7.6m). You can thank me later


I found that *LINDY 37855* 24awg 7.5m
lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters-c1/audio-video-c107/7-5m-gold-high-speed-hdmi-cable-with-ethernet-p8114[/url] (uk link)
lindy.de/GOLD-High-Speed-HDMI-Kabel-mit-Ethernet-75m.htm?websale8=ld0101&pi=37855&ci=800402[/url] (german link)
The _uk site says_ that has _bandwidth 600MHz / 18Gbps_ and the _german link Bandwidth bis 9GBit/s._
Both claim _Maximum colour depth: UHD up to 4K 60Hz (4:2:0 8bpc)_ not 4:4:4 but the reviews say it worked perfect at Full RGB and 4:4:4 at 7.5m.
I am so confused what to believe and what not?


----------



## Philippos

I also found that *ricable B75 HI-End*

_ricable.com/ricable-b75-hi-end-hdmi-2.0-7-5-meters.html_ 75€ (too expensive but if it works...)

Some suggest me to buy a rocketfish 4k cable but i can't find any in Europe.


----------



## Roudan

I have not received my fiber optics cable yet, still in 2 weeks. Tonight I just used my old 50' monoprice redmere cable which is 10.2gps rated. I set 4:4:4 deep color in samsung player. Attached is the picture information from my JVC RS500 menu. It shows 12 bits. I am wondering if my old cable can shown 12bits picture or how do I check if I can get 4:4:4 10 bits? Thanks.


----------



## Philippos

Roudan said:


> I have not received my fiber optics cable yet, still in 2 weeks. Tonight I just used my old 50' monoprice redmere cable which is 10.2gps rated. I set 4:4:4 deep color in samsung player. Attached is the picture information from my JVC RS500 menu. It shows 12 bits. I am wondering if my old cable can shown 12bits picture or how do I check if I can get 4:4:4 10 bits? Thanks.


It's set to 4k 24hz 12bit.You can see with this image.
i.rtings.com/images/Chroma-444.png


----------



## jaqb

Philippos said:


> I am so confused what to believe and what not?


I won't tell you what to believe: ) But most descriptions are not accurate. (not based on actual tests) For a 7.5m passive cable all the keywords you need are "High speed with Ethernet" and "AWG 24". The cables you have shown are very expensive...why not look for cheaper ones on eBay or something. I have this cable (second color choice) and I'm very happy with it. (Yes, it can do 4:4:[email protected]0hz @4k @7.5m)


----------



## Roudan

Philippos said:


> It's set to 4k 24hz 12bit.You can see with this image.
> i.rtings.com/images/Chroma-444.png


Thanks Philippos. I am not sure if I can follow you? So were you saying my image showed my cable can do 4K24 12 bit, 4:4:4? I am not sure since it is just a old 50ft redmere cable? I don't understand the image in the link you provided? Thanks for clarification!


----------



## Ratman

jaqb said:


> I won't tell you what to believe: ) For a 7.5m passive cable all the keywords you need are "High speed with Ethernet" and "AWG 24".


Why "Ethernet"?


----------



## Otto Pylot

jaqb said:


> For a 7.5m passive cable all the keywords you need are "High speed with Ethernet" and "AWG 24".


Ethernet means nothing as there are no consumer devices that took advantage of that HDMI spec.


----------



## jaqb

Ratman said:


> Why "Ethernet"?





Otto Pylot said:


> Ethernet means nothing as there are no consumer devices that took advantage of that HDMI spec.


Because that's the most complete HDMI cable you can get at this moment. (hardware-wise) ...it has the best chance to be future-proof... that's a single wire you don't get when the cable doesn't support ethernet.


----------



## Ratman

Yah.... if device A and device B doesn't support Ethernet via HDMI... it's a moot point (and perhaps an unnecessary/useless added expense).
That's probably the least of anyone's concerns for "future proofing".


----------



## Otto Pylot

"most complete cable" ? Virtually all HDMI cables sold today have a "with ethernet" version. The extra wire has nothing to do a/v quality signal. There is no way to "future-proof" a cable for future video standards, unless you don't plan on upgrading your equipment in the next couple of years. The only way, so far, to "future proof" is install conduit for in-wall installations and run a solid core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable).

The extra cost of a high speed hdmi cable, with ethernet, is mostly due to the "extra-wire or pin", fancy gold connectors, nitrogen-free copper, etc. All of which make no discernible difference for the cost. But, if the cable meets your needs then that's the right cable for you.


----------



## aaranddeeman

Another workaround to beat the HDMI cable length would be to use HDFury integral.
Insert HDFury integral in the middle of the run.
e.g. If you need 40' HDMI cable. Buy 2x 20' certified premium HDMI cables from monoprice. And HDfury integral.
Connect first 20' either from AVR(if supports HDCP 2.2) or from UHD BR (direct run to PJ) to HDFury. And then another 20' from HDFury to your PJ.
Partly because most of the folks are buying HDFury anyways (to remove the HDR and or beat the HDCP 2.2). Use this both ways.


----------



## Otto Pylot

aaranddeeman said:


> Partly because most of the folks are buying HDFury anyways (to remove the HDR and or beat the HDCP 2.2). Use this both ways.


So far.... There's still an active lawsuit going on for what the HDFury does, but until it gets resolved the technology is fine, which is ok by me. HDCP is a worse idea than HDMI


----------



## G-Rex

Here is the new Ethereal long run (up to 21 meters with gigabit accelerator) 18 gbps hdmi cable. An optical HDMI cable was also announced.

Velox Passive
http://www.marketingmatters.net/metra-home-debuts-innovative-line-passive-hdmi-cables/

https://metrahometheater.com/media/files/2016_CEDIA_NPG.pdf


----------



## dj7675

Just wanted to post some success on a 35 foot monoprice cable. I ordered 2, the 22 gauge silver series (which is obviously very thick and glad I didn't even have to open it). The one that did work is the cabernet.
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12736&seq=1&format=2

Equipment used:
Panasonic UB900>Denon 6200>RS500

My old redmere 40 foot I purchased a couple years ago worked fine for 1080p at 40 feet but had severe sparkles in 4K. Ordered the one above in 35 feet and it works perfectly for me. Watched Deadpool UHD with HDR.


----------



## Philippos

dj7675 said:


> Just wanted to post some success on a 35 foot monoprice cable. I ordered 2, the 22 gauge silver series (which is obviously very thick and glad I didn't even have to open it). The one that did work is the cabernet.
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025506&p_id=12736&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Equipment used:
> Panasonic UB900>Denon 6200>RS500
> 
> My old redmere 40 foot I purchased a couple years ago worked fine for 1080p at 40 feet but had severe sparkles in 4K. Ordered the one above in 35 feet and it works perfectly for me. Watched Deadpool UHD with HDR.


Have you tried 4k60hz 4:4:4?


----------



## jaqb

Philippos said:


> Have you tried 4k60hz 4:4:4?


 I did try this cable. It didn't work at 4k60hz 4:4:4, even though they advertise it. Personally I wouldn't recommend active Monoprice cables to anyone. If you can, get a passive cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is nothing magical about an active cable other than you can extend the run longer than 25' because of the chipset in the sink end. They work very well for 1080p. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is an entirely different matter probably because the chipsets need to be updated for timing, error correction etc for the higer video standards and length. A 40' active or passive cable for those video standards is going to be tough for just about any cable unless the cable is a 24AWG cable, or thicker, but then you run into flexibility issues. That's not to say there aren't 40' passive cables that will work, it's just that you will have to experiment until yo find one that meets your needs.


----------



## Julian01

mr stroke said:


> Has anyone had any luck with the MonoPrice Cabernet Ultra CL2 at 35 ft?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't get my Sony 940D to get 4:4:4 @60hz with a MediaBridge 35ft cable. I tried a 15ft KabelDirekt cable and it works fine but they don't sell 35ft+ :\


This is the cable that I just received @ 40', I am testing it out presently, directly to my AVR and directly to mt TV/Monitor.


----------



## dj7675

Julian01 said:


> This is the cable that I just received @ 40', I am testing it out presently, directly to my AVR and directly to mt TV/Monitor.


I am using this cable for UHD playback on a Panasonic UB900 UHD Player. I have it outputting 4K/60P/Deep Color set to auto and have it set to automatically detect output 4K/24P/HDR/Deep Color when playing a UHD disc. I have played Deadpool with this setup and it works perfectly. At least this is working with my equipent (Panasonic UB900>Denon 6200>RS500).


----------



## 52LG60FTW

Can anyone recommend a 20-25 foot HDMI cable that supports 4k 4:4:4 with HDR?


----------



## Otto Pylot

52LG60FTW said:


> Can anyone recommend a 20-25 foot HDMI cable that supports 4k 4:4:4 with HDR?


At a 25' maximum length, I would look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable. Cables that are labeled as such (different mfrs or vendors) are certified by an Authorized Testing Center (authorized by HDMI Licensing) to meet current HDMI 2.0a hardware specs. If the cables are truly certified by an ATC they will come with a counterfeit-proof laser-made label or tag that guarantees authenticity. However, at 25' there is no 100% guarantee that the cable will meet your needs with your equipment and setup. 20' seems to be about the cutoff for pushing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz but there are some who have been successful at longer lengths. Cable thickness also helps so look for 26AWG or maybe even 24AWG, but you will lose flexibility. Active cables (cables with Redmere technology) have also been used to some success provided that they have current chipsets (but that information is hard to come by).

Don't be mislead by slick marketing or carefully worded claims. You don't need to spend a lot of money on cables, but distance is the killer here, so you may find yourself trying a couple of different cables until you find one that works for you. Video technology has far outpaced the connection technology so cable mfrs are scrambling to come up with reliable cables for lengths longer than about 15' - 20'.


----------



## Roudan

Hi

Can I run 4K HDMI cable side by side with power cable in parallel ? It was fine with 1080 monoprice redmere cable. Not sure if it is still ok for 4K fiber optics cable? Thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

Are you asking about interference with the fiber optic from a nearby electrical (power) cable?


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> Are you asking about interference with the fiber optic from a nearby electrical (power) cable?


Yes, pls help me double check it . Thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

How long of a run are you talking about? In-wall, outside of the wall? It might be best if you explain your setup in a little more detail.


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


> How long of a run are you talking about? In-wall, outside of the wall? It might be best if you explain your setup in a little more detail.


Thanks Otto. Appreciate it . The cable is 40ft long outside the wall. ( still waiting for the stock) . I put both power cable and HDMI fiber optics cable in a conduit which sticks to the outside of the wall . I have a Samsung 8500 connecting to Marantz 7702 mk2 to JVCRS500 projector. Thanks again.


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## Otto Pylot

40' is pretty long. I'd run the fiber optic cable in the conduit by itself first to see if it is even going to work reliably at that distance. If it does, then add the power cable and see if there is any degradation. If not, you're good to go.


----------



## Ratman

Just curious... why or how would a A/C power cable (or any copper signal cable) cause a problem with optical?


----------



## hobojoe

Ratman said:


> Just curious... why or how would a A/C power cable (or any copper signal cable) cause a problem with optical?


It doesn't. Fiber optics are immune to EMI since signals are transmitted as light instead of current.


----------



## Ratman

As I thought. And... RFI as well as EMI. 
It was sort of a rhetorical question.


----------



## Philippos

I have tried so far 5 cables including a 70€ (18gbps/600Mhz/5m) but nothing worked in 4K60Hz 4:4:4 only up to 4:2:0/8bpc.
I have been reading from people that the Nvidia 10xx series have problem with hdmi 2.0 and lengthier cables and i should try Displayport to Hdmi2.0 adapter. 
Will that work at 4K60hz 4:4:4?
An other strange thing that is occured is that TVs HDMI2 port plays with all cables till 4:2:0 (port supports only hdmi 1.4) but HDM1 port (that supports hdmi 2.0)
doesnt play with all cables at 4K 4.2.0 only with 2.With the other 3 cables till 1080p.
That is strange 
Is that a TVs HDMI port failure?


----------



## Roudan

Philippos said:


> I have tried so far 5 cables including a 70€ (18gbps/600Mhz/5m) but nothing worked in 4K60Hz 4:4:4 only up to 4:2:0/8bpc.
> I have been reading from people that the Nvidia 10xx series have problem with hdmi 2.0 and lengthier cables and i should try Displayport to Hdmi2.0 adapter.
> Will that work at 4K60hz 4:4:4?
> An other strange thing that is occured is that TVs HDMI2 port plays with all cables till 4:2:0 (port supports only hdmi 1.4) but HDM1 port (that supports hdmi 2.0)
> doesnt play with all cables at 4K 4.2.0 only with 2.With the other 3 cables till 1080p.
> That is strange
> Is that a TVs HDMI port failure?


what does this adapter do? to promote 4K 4:4:4 if the cable can only do 4:2:0? thx


----------



## Philippos

Roudan said:


> what does this adapter do? to promote 4K 4:4:4 if the cable can only do 4:2:0? thx


Maybe boosts the signal because its active.Or that would be a solution when GTX1070s HDMI 2.0b port has weak signal.


----------



## Icaaruz

Hello guys, I'm facing the same issue user zapete already reported on page 276 of the LG B/C6 owner's thread. Is that a common issue for defective, subpar quality HDMI cables? I really hope it's not the panel itself or the graphic card....


----------



## mr stroke

mr stroke said:


> Has anyone had any luck with the MonoPrice Cabernet Ultra CL2 at 35 ft?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't get my Sony 940D to get 4:4:4 @60hz with a MediaBridge 35ft cable. I tried a 15ft KabelDirekt cable and it works fine but they don't sell 35ft+ :\


Ok guys the* Monoprice Cabernet 35ft will NOT pass 4:4:4 4k @60hz* :\

My Sony 940D + GTX 1080 will not allow 4:4:4 with that cable at all. Shorter cables are fine but that Monoprice is a no go


----------



## Fiend Busa

Anyone test either of these cables at 20ft?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ no guarantees. At 20' I would think that you would have a better than average success because distances over about 15'-20' is the problem. The KableDirect is certified by an ATC (HDMI Licensing) so it has gone thru rigorous standardized testing. If it truly is ATC certified, it will come with some sort of label or certificate of authenticity. If not, the mfrs claims are bogus.

The other cable uses the term Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, which is the official terminology used by HDMI Licensing for cables that have been certified by an ATC. Again, if the claims of certification are legitimate, the cables will come with a counterfeit-proof label of authenticity, usually in the form of a laser printed label.


----------



## Fiend Busa

danbfree said:


> SUCCESS:
> 
> *PlugLug High-Speed HDMI Cable Version 2.0 (Fastest Version) (25 Feet White) - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return*
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7
> Worked perfectly in a brief test, will continue to test.
> 
> *** Just got mine in the mail today and confirmed working for me too: eVGA GTX 950 to RCA 65" 4k60p, RGB Full and 4:4:4 all working great!


Did they stop selling the 25 feet? I can't find them ANYWHERE 

Edit:

I found the 25ft but it only shows 10.2GBS? Is that a error? Everyone in the reviews are saying its works @ 4k 4:4:4:4


----------



## danbfree

Fiend Busa said:


> Did they stop selling the 25 feet? I can't find them ANYWHERE
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I found the 25ft but it only shows 10.2GBS? Is that a error? Everyone in the reviews are saying its works @ 4k 4:4:4:4
> 
> No, they no longer sell the white 25ft that is the correct model.
> 
> If you can go 20ft, just go with the Monoprice certified.


----------



## Fiend Busa

danbfree said:


> Fiend Busa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Did they stop selling the 25 feet? I can't find them ANYWHERE
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I found the 25ft but it only shows 10.2GBS? Is that a error? Everyone in the reviews are saying its works @ 4k 4:4:4:4
> 
> No, they no longer sell the white 25ft that is the correct model.
> 
> If you can go 20ft, just go with the Monoprice certified.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok thanks
> 
> So I had 2 extra amazon high speed cables lying around (25ft). Decided, why not lets just try it and see if it will work with HDR 4:4:4:4 etc...And it did. No black screen flickering or anything
Click to expand...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Fiend Busa said:


> danbfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah ok thanks
> 
> So I had 2 extra amazon high speed cables lying around (25ft). Decided, why not lets just try it and see if it will work with HDR 4:4:4:4 etc...And it did. No black screen flickering or anything
> 
> 
> 
> And you have just discovered what a lot of folks are encountering. Some cables work, and some don't, because you can't always depend on mfr. claims. You just have to try and see what works with your setup and equipment. Congrats!
Click to expand...


----------



## Dws6

Fiber optic cable isn't effected by inductance of a power cable. No issues there. It's just data in the form of light and light can't be effected by inductance. 
With that said, In the security industry many contractors run fiber with power although they really shouldn't as power should always be separated. But those are long long runs anyway. It's best practice to always separate power and other low voltage copper mediums. Typically inductance is only an issue on longer parallel runs though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dws6

Sorry forgot to reply to the specific post a page back. Still getting used to the forum access through tap a talk on mobile. It's a bit different then I'm used too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## etp

And the recommendation so far for a new 4K TV UHD HDMI cable for 12 feet max? I can probably get buy with 9 feet but 6 feet is a tad tight.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ there are lots of recommendations so you just need to experiment a bit to see what works best for you. A lot is dependent upon your particular equipment and setup so there is no one cable that works for everyone.


----------



## Ron Jones

mr stroke said:


> Ok guys the* Monoprice Cabernet 35ft will NOT pass 4:4:4 4k @60hz* :\
> 
> My Sony 940D + GTX 1080 will not allow 4:4:4 with that cable at all. Shorter cables are fine but that Monoprice is a no go


I had a long discussion with the monoprice rep at CEDIA Expo, as well as discussions with a couple of other cable manufacturers. The story for active HDMI cables is consistent in that there are no production chips for use in the active cables that will reliably handle HDMI 2.0 at the full 18 Gbps. Monoprice hopes to have a new generation of active HDMI cables starting at 25 ft. and up to 75 ft. lengths coming in approx. Feb. 2017 that will use the new generation of chips that are now in testing. By the way, I have two of the Cabernet 25ft. cables and neither will reliably pass 2160p/60 with 4:4:4 without signal dropouts.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ron Jones said:


> I had a long discussion with the monoprice rep at CEDIA Expo, as well as discussions with a couple of other cable manufacturers. The story for active HDMI cables is consistent in that there are no production chips for use in the active cables that will reliably handle HDMI 2.0 at the full 18 Gbps. Monoprice hopes to have a new generation of active HDMI cables starting at 25 ft. and up to 75 ft. lengths coming in approx. Feb. 2017 that will use the new generation of chips that are now in testing. By the way, I have two of the Cabernet 25ft. cables and neither will reliably pass 2160p/60 with 4:4:4 without signal dropouts.


Older generation active chipsets have long been one of the major problems with the higher video standards. Hopefully the new cable chipsets will be compatible with the device chipsets already installed in tv's, blu-ray players, etc. My guess is that there will still be some issues due to the fact that the signal will only be as good as the in-common protocols and/or design of the HDMI boards. It would be great if the device mfrs (cable, tv, etc) listed which version of HDMI chipsets were installed.


----------



## Philippos

I tried with many cables to make my tv run at 4k 60Hz 4:4:4 and in the end the problem as with my LG tv HDMI port.
Now i can confirm that amazon basics 4.5m/15ft and this one OEHLBACH 92456 Black Magic HDMI 5.1 m 16.7ft are working flawlessly
at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 chroma with my GTX 1070!
All you need is a 18Gbit 600Mhz cable for long cables.


----------



## G-Rex

Ron Jones said:


> I had a long discussion with the monoprice rep at CEDIA Expo, as well as discussions with a couple of other cable manufacturers. The story for active HDMI cables is consistent in that there are no production chips for use in the active cables that will reliably handle HDMI 2.0 at the full 18 Gbps. Monoprice hopes to have a new generation of active HDMI cables starting at 25 ft. and up to 75 ft. lengths coming in approx. Feb. 2017 that will use the new generation of chips that are now in testing. By the way, I have two of the Cabernet 25ft. cables and neither will reliably pass 2160p/60 with 4:4:4 without signal dropouts.


Would this lack of reliability include Ethereal's Gigabit Accelerator? Is the technology similar to Redmere in a stand alone box?


----------



## Ron Jones

G-Rex said:


> Would this lack of reliability include Ethereal's Gigabit Accelerator? Is the technology basically Redmere in a stand alone box?


I have no direct knowledge if the Ethereal Gigabit accelerator uses the same type of chips used in the active HDMI cables, or something else..


----------



## G-Rex

According to Ethereal, the chipset is proprietary and not Redmere based. Same with their Velox Active cables.


----------



## HDPERSON

Purchased 5' (there are other lengths) Marseillie mCable from Amazon last week and find it the best HDMI cable ever. The cable has three parts to it, (1) USB for a plug in, to power the processor, (2) a large HDMI with processor to TV and (3) a smaller HDMI from source. The cable makes everything sharper, eliminates noise, increase contrast ratio and brings brighter color to the picture by way of the processor. My Blu Rays and DVDs never looked better or sharper. The cable works on DVD, Blu Ray, and 4K sources. It cost me $129 not including tax and shipping. Just a heads up on something relatively new.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ObscureKnight62 said:


> 4K is future


Technically, 8k is the future. 4k is already here, but we'll let you slide on that one


----------



## Ratman

And 16k will be right around the corner.


----------



## Otto Pylot




----------



## ppoulos

HDPERSON said:


> Purchased 5' (there are other lengths) Marseillie mCable from Amazon last week and find it the best HDMI cable ever. The cable has three parts to it, (1) USB for a plug in, to power the processor, (2) a large HDMI with processor to TV and (3) a smaller HDMI from source. The cable makes everything sharper, eliminates noise, increase contrast ratio and brings brighter color to the picture by way of the processor. My Blu Rays and DVDs never looked better or sharper. The cable works on DVD, Blu Ray, and 4K sources. It cost me $129 not including tax and shipping. Just a heads up on something relatively new.


But the downside of this cable is that it is *ONLY* [email protected] HDMI 1.4 compatible, *not* [email protected], 4:4:4, 600mHz HDMI 2.0 signal compatible!


----------



## Roudan

Otto Pylot said:


>


Hi Otto, 

I got my 40ft fiber optics cable from my dealer and it didn't pass 18Gps for Samsung Home screen 4K60 8 bit. Sewell 6ft S6 cable did pass.

Pls see attached picture showing comparison of this fiber optics cable and 6ft Sewell S6 4K cable. This fiber optics cable is very thin and it has source and display labels on either end. so I assumed it is directional and it must be an active cable. And there is no brand at all. My dealer just told me it was factory made so no brand. I think most of fiber optics cable is passive, right????

Have anyone tried Sewell 40ft S6 cable? I just ordered one from Sewell and I will see if it pass 18Gbps?

Thanks


----------



## HDPERSON

ppoulos said:


> But the downside of this cable is that it is *ONLY* [email protected] HDMI 1.4 compatible, *not* [email protected], 4:4:4, 600mHz HDMI 2.0 signal compatible!



HDMI 2.0 refers to the hardware and not cables according to HDMI.Org., any high speed cable will work with 4K 60. This cable is rated at 27Gbps. It was tested by Technicolor Inc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ HDMI.org requested around 2011 that cable mfrs stop labeling their cables with the HDMI hardware version (i.e. 1.4) because it was too confusing for the consumer. That worked for awhile but now cable mfrs are very carefully labeling their cables so as to "imply" that their cables are HDMI 2.0 compatible. They do that by listing the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs making it sound like there is something special about their cables with designations like "HDMI 2.0 compatible" or "version 2.0 HDMI" cable.

There is really only one type of HDMI cable to look for, and that would be a High Speed HDMI cable, either passive or active. Certification by Technicolor means nothing, especially "certified" for 27Gbps . The only standardized certification testing program that can be used by various cable mfrs are those put forth by HDMI Licensing. The certification process is done by ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers). The cables that pass an ATC can be labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI Cables and will come with a label of authenticity that is counterfeit proof. BJC certifies some of their cables and they may in fact use an ATC.

Certification, even a proper one does not guarantee that the cable will work for all setups and equipment. But it is the only thing that the consumer has to go by in making a decision. That's not to say that a non-certified cable will not work, because some do. I'm just a bit jaded on all of the marketing hype and labeling that cable mfrs are doing to get folks to buy their cables. Most all of it is b.s. If I was in the market for some new cables I would pay close attention to the distance of my individual cable runs, how they are connected to my devices, and then look for a Premium High Speed HDMI cable or maybe even an optical cable depending on the length of the run.

There are no cable guarantees because the higher demanding video technologies have outpaced the connection technologies, so far.


----------



## jayselle

Roudan said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> 
> 
> I got my 40ft fiber optics cable from my dealer and it didn't pass 18Gps for Samsung Home screen 4K60 8 bit. Sewell 6ft S6 cable did pass.
> 
> 
> 
> Pls see attached picture showing comparison of this fiber optics cable and 6ft Sewell S6 4K cable. This fiber optics cable is very thin and it has source and display labels on either end. so I assumed it is directional and it must be an active cable. And there is no brand at all. My dealer just told me it was factory made so no brand. I think most of fiber optics cable is passive, right????
> 
> 
> 
> Have anyone tried Sewell 40ft S6 cable? I just ordered one from Sewell and I will see if it pass 18Gbps?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks




The HDMI fiber optic cable I have requires power at the receiving end. 5V from a USB power adapter. The light has to be converted back to a digital signal which I'm assuming is why the 5V requirement. Optimally you can also power it on the transmit side with the same 5V power adapter if the source HDMI doesn't put out the proper amount of power to convert from digital to light.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Roudan

jayselle said:


> Roudan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Otto,
> 
> 
> 
> I got my 40ft fiber optics cable from my dealer and it didn't pass 18Gps for Samsung Home screen 4K60 8 bit. Sewell 6ft S6 cable did pass.
> 
> 
> 
> Pls see attached picture showing comparison of this fiber optics cable and 6ft Sewell S6 4K cable. This fiber optics cable is very thin and it has source and display labels on either end. so I assumed it is directional and it must be an active cable. And there is no brand at all. My dealer just told me it was factory made so no brand. I think most of fiber optics cable is passive, right????
> 
> 
> 
> Have anyone tried Sewell 40ft S6 cable? I just ordered one from Sewell and I will see if it pass 18Gbps?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The HDMI fiber optic cable I have requires power at the receiving end. 5V from a USB power adapter. The light has to be converted back to a digital signal which I'm assuming is why the 5V requirement. Optimally you can also power it on the transmit side with the same 5V power adapter if the source HDMI doesn't put out the proper amount of power to convert from digital to light.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks Jayselle. My fiber optics had always HDMI end . Pls check the picture in my previous post. 

Just want to confirm , from UHD playback is only 4K 24 10 bits which is only 11.1gbps. And most of cable can handle it. Last night I found even my old 50ft monoprice redmere 10gbps cable can play UHD blu Ray no problem . So why do I need to buy 18gbps cable ?


----------



## ppoulos

HDPERSON said:


> HDMI 2.0 refers to the hardware and not cables according to HDMI.Org., any high speed cable will work with 4K 60. This cable is rated at 27Gbps. It was tested by Technicolor Inc.


I was just quoting a user reply to a question on Amazon - sorry for the confusion. But their own website (Marseille, Inc) shows that the maximum supported resolution for this Cable is 2160p 50Hz and 60Hz supported in _YUV 4:2:0_ *(i.e. - 300 mHz signal)*, *not* 2160p 60Hz, _YUV 4:4:4_ *(i.e. - 600 mHz signal)*! The "cable is rated at 27Gbps" has no meaning and is marketing gibberish. Have you actually tried to pass a 600 mHz signal through the Marseille mCable using a source such as the Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player or the Nvidia Shield, then looked for video drop outs for at least an hour to see what happens? When I first purchased the Samsung UBD-K8500 UHD player I ended up going through 15 different cable brands to finally find 1 or 2 cables that can _barely_ pass a 600 mHz signal without loosing signal integrity. All these cables were 16 feet in length or less, averaging around 10 to 12 feet. And all these cables easily passed a 300 MHz signal, but not a 600 MHz signal! Just Like Otto Pylot I am also a bit jaded at all of the *marketing hype and labeling* that cable manufacturers are doing to get folks to buy their cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1


----------



## Roudan

Have anyone tried Sewell s6 longer than 35ft?

https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


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## danbez

Roudan said:


> Thanks Jayselle. My fiber optics had always HDMI end . Pls check the picture in my previous post.
> 
> Just want to confirm , from UHD playback is only 4K 24 10 bits which is only 11.1gbps. And most of cable can handle it. Last night I found even my old 50ft monoprice redmere 10gbps cable can play UHD blu Ray no problem . So why do I need to buy 18gbps cable ?


Roudan, yours looks just like the Fiber Optic one I got from Monoprice. The cable indicates source/target terminals but doesn't provide any way to add extra 5V. Just like your, it also failed to pass 18Gbps, but most of the times it works with 11Gbps.


----------



## rhinoAVS

*45 foot Monoprice Cabernet*



mr stroke said:


> Ok guys the* Monoprice Cabernet 35ft will NOT pass 4:4:4 4k @60hz* :\
> 
> My Sony 940D + GTX 1080 will not allow 4:4:4 with that cable at all. Shorter cables are fine but that Monoprice is a no go





Ron Jones said:


> I had a long discussion with the monoprice rep at CEDIA Expo, as well as discussions with a couple of other cable manufacturers. The story for active HDMI cables is consistent in that there are no production chips for use in the active cables that will reliably handle HDMI 2.0 at the full 18 Gbps. Monoprice hop wases to have a new generation of active HDMI cables starting at 25 ft. and up to 75 ft. lengths coming in approx. Feb. 2017 that will use the new generation of chips that are now in testing. By the way, I have two of the Cabernet 25ft. cables and neither will reliably pass 2160p/60 with 4:4:4 without signal dropouts.


I just tested a 45 foot Monoprice Cabernet HDMI cable that I received last week and it passes 4k60 4:4:4 for me without a problem. See pics.

I'm running it on the Monitor 2 out port of a Denon X7200WA to an LG 43UH6100.


----------



## Roudan

danbez said:


> Roudan, yours looks just like the Fiber Optic one I got from Monoprice. The cable indicates source/target terminals but doesn't provide any way to add extra 5V. Just like your, it also failed to pass 18Gbps, but most of the times it works with 11Gbps.


Yes. Mine looks more like this. The pictures look exactly the same. It is only 10gbps. I hated my dealer lie on me. Trust is number one priority in the world.


https://www.amazon.com/Aurum-Blazin...1476644143&sr=8-1&keywords=Aurum+fiber+optics


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## doctorwizz

rhinoAVS said:


> I just tested a 45 foot Monoprice Cabernet HDMI cable that I received last week and it passes 4k60 4:4:4 for me without a problem. See pics.
> 
> I'm running it on the Monitor 2 out port of a Denon X7200WA to an LG 43UH6100.


That is not a proper test. It's an upscaled image that is not truly 444 and maybe not a HDMI 2.x source. Also, Denon's will not overlay the GUI on a real 4K video. You just see the GUI with a black background. 
Test on a PC with an HDMI 2.x video card with TV in PC mode.


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## rhinoAVS

doctorwizz said:


> That is not a proper test. It's an upscaled image that is not truly 444 and maybe not a HDMI 2.x source. Also, Denon's will not overlay the GUI on a real 4K video. You just see the GUI with a black background.
> Test on a PC with an HDMI 2.x video card with TV in PC mode.


This is not the case with my Denon. It does however show the GUI on a black background when I use the Shield TV as the source because it is a 10 bit bt2020 signal (and that works with this cable also). But I have tried many cables that did not work to display this in 4k60 4:4:4, only 4:2:0. Anyway it works for me for Ultra Deep Color which is what I needed.


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## Tomcup

Just ordered a 40' Silverback S6 HDMI Cable from Sewell - will test from my GTX 1060 to my EF9500 OLED at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 chroma. 

Currently have a 35 foot Mediabridge cable from several years ago routed from PC on one end of living room, down through unfinished basement, and back up to TV - that can only pass 4K 59hz at 4:2:0. So my goal is to replace that. 

Should be here next saturday. Will report back once I test.


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## sthompson

Tomcup said:


> Just ordered a 40' Silverback S6 HDMI Cable from Sewell - will test from my GTX 1060 to my EF9500 OLED at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 chroma.
> 
> Currently have a 35 foot Mediabridge cable from several years ago routed from PC on one end of living room, down through unfinished basement, and back up to TV - that can only pass 4K 59hz at 4:2:0. So my goal is to replace that.
> 
> Should be here next saturday. Will report back once I test.


Finally after going through the following

- 50 ft monoprice luxe series active hdmi cable
- HD Fury Integral
- 50 ft Celerity fiber hdmi cable

I found a cable that worked with my JVC RS500 and AV8802A to display [email protected] 

This 75 ft SlimRun cable from Monoprice did the trick.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_...fO0PLpe3cVoApaMvL5RaqiZTXeUbD1WfK8aArUE8P8HAQ

If anyone is looking to buy the monoprice luxe cable and/or the Integral, I'll be putting them up for sale in the classifieds.


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## finiteyoda

I just tried the Monoprice Ultra Slim 18Gbps Active cables (10 ft) with the Samsung K8500 to Arcam AVR550, UHD content does not work (4K and blu-ray works fine). Tried two different ones. (Passive 6ft high speed HDMI cable I had lying around worked just fine). Kind of bummed, because first I'm not sure what I should replace them with, and secondly because I ran a bunch of them through the wall when I frst setup the home theater, and fishing new cables is going to be a major pain.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I'm a bit surprised that you weren't able to achieve that at 10'. 10" is a bit of an overkill for an active cable because there is nothing magical about an active cable other than you can extend the distance past 25' for 1080p. It could be that the chipset is not current enough to handle the higher video standards so error correcting, timing, etc failed. The fact that the 6' passive cable worked makes me think that was the problem.

I take it that you didn't install conduit for the in-wall cables  If your run is only 10' total, you can try a passive cable with a thicker gauge wire, like AWG24, and see if that works any better.


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## finiteyoda

I don't think Monoprice had the passive version of the ultra thin at the time (i see they do now), and I needed a very thin version because I was running 8 of them through a narrow gap in the wall. Now I see the passive version, I might give that a try.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ unfortunately conduit is the only thing that is going to seriously help you. Thin active cables are fine but the longer the distance, even 10', the more difficult it may be to reliably push the higher video standards. Keep in mind that the reliability of the Redmere cables is dependent upon the chipset used and there is no way to determine what kind, or how current the chipset is. The other downside of a Redmere (active) cable is like any other electronic device, they may fail over time. The thicker the wire gauge, the better your chances are. Having installed a 1.5" to 2.0" conduit solves all kinds of problems because you will be swapping out cable in the future, probably sooner than later, as the connection technology eventually catches up to the video technology. That doesn't help you in your current situation so the only thing you can try is a thicker gauge passive cable and see if that helps. The other possibility, albeit a relatively expensive one, is to fish a solid core, non-CCS CAT-6 cable thru the wall and then terminate the ends with some sort of active termination like HDBT. Definitely an overkill, especially for the distance, but that may give you what you need given the difficulty of fishing HDMI cables and/or CAT-6 ethernet patch cables.


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## finiteyoda

Are you saying I need the conduit for the cables to work properly (i.e. shielding?), or just to make it easier to re-run cables? I could put one in myself, but didn't because the in-wall space is already very tight (there's a romex cable running horizontally, which splits the space in half). Usually, I bundle my cables in techflex, then use a fishing rod to bring them up the wall, but they tend to always get caught on that romex cable. Whatever conduit I could fit that would make it past the romex, would be way to small for all my cables, which is why I partition them off in smaller groups, and run those individually in techflex. Does that seem like the right way to do it? (The best might've been to re-route the romex so it's more to the outer edge of the gap, not right in the middle, but it's stapled to the stud and I can't easily access it)

I've attached a photo of what I mean, the blue techflex are my HDMI cables (I have other bundles next to it, they're just out of frame), and the cables that are stapled to the stud were all put there by the builder.


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## Otto Pylot

The use of 1.5" - 2.0" conduit is for running your cables inside the conduit. That makes it SO much easier to add or replace cabling as your needs demand. Installing a pull-string as well makes it very easy to add another cable without having to mess with the existing cables. It's also easier to control the bend radius somewhat because you don't want any bends in the cable anymore than is reasonable. If you feel you need to run HDMI cables it is less hassle to pull then thru the conduit without damaging the connector ends or get stuck in a bend. Laying in solid core CAT-6 or maybe even an RG-6 will ensure future needs if you decide to extend and ethernet connection (CAT-6 to a Keystone jack) or HDMI (CAT-6 to active termination), etc. Using CL-2 or CL-3 cabling will also meet fire code regulations if you are concerned about that.

The space you have looks really tight so you may not be able to do much more than what you already have done without some major sheet rocking (which is not a pleasant or even reasonable thought given your circumstances).

We did some remodeling a couple of years ago so installing conduit was easy. I've hardwired my HTS to the router in another room via solid core CAT-6 and have extra solid core CAT-6, as well as a pull-string, in the utility box for future needs.


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## Baron Crooke

wildonrio said:


> I have a 4K LG TV. It came with a 10ft HDMI a cable that supports [email protected] in 4:4:4 chroma and in Deep Color (are those the same?).
> 
> Now I need an HDMI cable with the same specs but at 15ft instead. I am failing. I'm on my 8th cable now and nothing works. The descriptions of these cables are all deceptive.
> 
> Does anyone have a 15ft+ cable that they use that supports these features?


check parts express the price of HDMI is more related to brand than quality since HDMI is digital just buy the latest gen cable and it should work


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## Otto Pylot

Baron Crooke said:


> check parts express the price of HDMI is more related to brand than quality since HDMI is digital just buy the latest gen cable and it should work


The "latest gen" cable means what? According to who? The mfr? HDMI.org? High Speed HDMI cables are what to look for. What confuses people is the slick marketing and performance claims that cable mfrs make. Most of which are very misleading and borderline deceptive. 1080p is not a problem for runs under 25'. For runs longer than 25', an active cable will work fine. The issue is 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Distance and wire gauge seem to the major problems. It's not uncommon for folks to try cable after cable, based on claims to find one that works. The other factor is individual setups and equipment. At this juncture, there is no guarantee that any one cable will work for everyone at lengths longer than about 15' - 20'. Some have luck, most don't. It's all trial and error right now. Even active cables for the higher video standards is no guarantee either, probably due to the version of chipsets used (and wire gauge).


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## finiteyoda

This is so very true, it is very much trial and error right now, even among "high speed" hdmi cables (maybe less so with passive than active). I've found price and manufacturer to not be reliable indicators at all, of whether a particular cable will work or not.


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## Otto Pylot

Just to be clear, there is no difference between a passive high speed hdmi cable and an active high speed hdmi cable. The only difference is the chipset in the tv side that is used to propagate the signal over longer distances in the active cable. It's all error correction and timing. PQ/AQ is the same. You either get the signal with no issues or you don't.


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## finiteyoda

I agree that PQ/AQ is same between active and passive cables (as you say, either it works or you get obvious artifacting). But that's not to say all active chipsets are equal, or don't introduce issues a passive cable may not exhibit. If you look at some of Monoprice's active cables with redmere chipset, you can see a lot of people having issues when enabling UHD color (you stop receiving any video at all), and some of those with issues are reporting that the latest ones being shipped out have fixed the issue. Even earlier in this thread, you can see that a Monoprice CEDIA rep acknowledged the issue with the earlier chipsets. The people with the passive version of that same cable are not reporting UHD color issues.


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## Otto Pylot

Absolutely the chipsets are the issue for some. The problem is the consumer has no way of knowing if the newer chipsets, which are just starting to appear, are incorporated into the sink end or not. The same for the devices that have HDMI 2.0 inputs. Are they flashable to HDMI 2.0a? Do they have the earlier iteration of HDMI 2.0? It's very hard to determine what's going to work because there are just so many variables. What is consistent is how the industry is pushing 4k/HDR without supporting the connection technologies. Most consumers just think a cable is a cable and will purchase based on description alone and then wonder why they have issues. To be fair though, most consumers are not like us who take the time to get educated and know which question to ask. It pays to be a little anal and OCD  Passive cables, if you pay attention to the distance and wire gauge can work very well in some setups.


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## G-Rex

Which is why these passive cables were developed:

https://metrahometheater.com/ehv-hdp12.html


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## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Which is why these passive cables were developed:
> 
> https://metrahometheater.com/ehv-hdp12.html


Those are passive cables for use up to 24'. Nothing special about that. For longer lengths you need to purchase their active extender. Notice the cable has Source indicated on one end. The cables are designed to work with their extender. How did they test their cables to support 18Gbps? The passive cable is also 24AWG, which is a bit stiff. However, a thicker wire gauge has been shown to be a little more reliable than the typical 26AWG or even 28AWG. Most of this is all marketing.


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## finiteyoda

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are passive cables for use up to 24'. Nothing special about that. For longer lengths you need to purchase their active extender. Notice the cable has Source indicated on one end. The cables are designed to work with their extender. How did they test their cables to support 18Gbps? The passive cable is also 24AWG, which is a bit stiff. However, a thicker wire gauge has been shown to be a little more reliable than the typical 26AWG or even 28AWG. Most of this is all marketing.


Well, the price is pretty special: $780 for the 12m version. $390 for a 10 ft version. I think this cable fits a very very small niche.


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## Otto Pylot

finiteyoda said:


> Well, the price is pretty special: $780 for the 12m version. $390 for a 10 ft version. I think this cable fits a very very small niche.


Yep. As someone said a long time ago, "there's one born every minute" High price does not equate to reliability.


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## tcramer

Anyone here tried any of the Sewell Silverback cables at 30' or longer that Sewell Jared was discussing a couple months back?


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## Otto Pylot

Some reported that they didn't work. His sales pitch was very good.


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## tcramer

Otto Pylot said:


> Some reported that they didn't work. His sales pitch was very good.


Too bad, I had a glimmer of hope.


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## Otto Pylot

It still may be worth a try. You might be one of the lucky ones.


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## tcramer

Otto Pylot said:


> It still may be worth a try. You might be one of the lucky ones.


I may, they are cheap enough to do so.


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## BuckoNZ

I don't need a cable that requires a long throw, like some of the other comments (above) - probably a 6 foot cable is fine for me.

Is something like this from Monoprice going to do the job?

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13586


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## finiteyoda

BuckoNZ said:


> I don't need a cable that requires a long throw, like some of the other comments (above) - probably a 6 foot cable is fine for me.
> 
> Is something like this from Monoprice going to do the job?
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13586


I wouldn't get that one, it's only certified to 10.2 Gbps. If you want to be able to do 4K @ 60p (or whatever else they may come up with in future) better to stick to cables that are CERTIFIED for 18 Gbps. I'd get this one: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2


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## BuckoNZ

finiteyoda said:


> I wouldn't get that one, it's only certified to 10.2 Gbps. If you want to be able to do 4K @ 60p (or whatever else they may come up with in future) better to stick to cables that are CERTIFIED for 18 Gbps. I'd get this one: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2


Cheers for that.


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## aaranddeeman

finiteyoda said:


> I wouldn't get that one, it's only certified to 10.2 Gbps. If you want to be able to do 4K @ 60p (or whatever else they may come up with in future) better to stick to cables that are CERTIFIED for 18 Gbps. I'd get this one: http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2


And someone reported in other thread that it does not work either..


----------



## finiteyoda

Which other thread? The ones I've seen seem to indicate it does work for HDR... I have one coming from Monoprice tomorrow actually, so I'll report back if it worked for me not.


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## BuckoNZ

finiteyoda said:


> Which other thread? The ones I've seen seem to indicate it does work for HDR... I have one coming from Monoprice tomorrow actually, so I'll report back if it worked for me not.


Please do!


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## Otto Pylot

At 6', I'd look for a cable that has a thicker AWG like 24 or 26 at best. The cable will be a bit stiffer but cable thickness seems to be one of the factors that help, especially if your run is under 10'. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC), again at your 6' length, may be helpful as well. But, as we've been saying all along, there are no guarantees when you factor in your equipment and setup.


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## glimerman

*4k gameing*

can some one please post a link of a hdmi cable that will work 4k 4:4:4 full rgb at 25 foot with a lg oled and a nivida 1080 please., 50 dollar and under range if possible


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## ppoulos

glimerman said:


> can some one please post a link of a hdmi cable that will work 4k 4:4:4 full rgb at 25 foot with a lg oled and a nivida 1080 please., 50 dollar and under range if possible


What you ask for is still _hit and miss_... but I have found BJC HDMI Cables *SERIES 1 only* in general work with my OLED connected to either a Samsung or Panasonic UHD player. The series 1 cable is *much* thicker than their supposedly certified FE series (which does not handle a 600 mHz signal without dropouts!). I have not had any noticeable dropouts with their thicker Series 1 Cables, but I have only tried their 10 foot length.

The Amazon link to their _Series 1_ 25-foot cable is https://www.amazon.com/High-Speed-C...=1477565482&sr=8-4&keywords=BJC+series+1+hdmi, but 1.5 times more expensive then your asking price.


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## glimerman

ppoulos said:


> What you ask for is still _hit and miss_... but I have found BJC HDMI Cables *SERIES 1 only* in general work with my OLED connected to either a Samsung or Panasonic UHD player. The series 1 cable is *much* thicker than their supposedly certified FE series (which does not handle a 600 mHz signal without dropouts!). I have not had any noticeable dropouts with their thicker Series 1 Cables, but I have only tried their 10 foot length.
> 
> The Amazon link to their _Series 1_ 25-foot cable is https://www.amazon.com/High-Speed-C...=1477565482&sr=8-4&keywords=BJC+series+1+hdmi, but 1.5 times more expensive then your asking price.


its 87 bucks i mean if it will work i will buy it , i just want to make sure before i keep buying cables . i was playing last night and my menoprice one will work at 30hz deep color when i go to 60hz it black screens ,
but this 100 dollar cable i got a hhghreg works fulll 60 hz it does say 600 mhz and deep color 4k on the box but its only 12 foot . at least i know my set up works now got to try some 25 foot ones
i am looking at these 2 cables as well,, 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7?tag=vs-tech-convert-amazon-20
https://www.amazon.com/Czoom-HDMI-C...01H5CY998/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

thank you very much for the reply


----------



## Otto Pylot

glimerman said:


> its 87 bucks i mean if it will work i will buy it , i just want to make sure before i keep buying cables . i was playing last night and my menoprice one will work at 30hz deep color when i go to 60hz it black screens ,
> but this 100 dollar cable i got a hhghreg works fulll 60 hz it does say 600 mhz and deep color 4k on the box but its only 12 foot . at least i know my set up works now got to try some 25 foot ones
> i am looking at these 2 cables as well,,
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7?tag=vs-tech-convert-amazon-20
> https://www.amazon.com/Czoom-HDMI-C...01H5CY998/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> thank you very much for the reply


There are no guarantees. Period. That's the take-away from this very long thread. Cable mfrs will make all kinds of claims that sound great on paper but it comes down to distance, wire gauge, your setup, and the devices connected. Trial and error is the answer.


----------



## ppoulos

glimerman said:


> its 87 bucks i mean if it will work i will buy it , i just want to make sure before i keep buying cables . i was playing last night and my menoprice one will work at 30hz deep color when i go to 60hz it black screens ,
> but this 100 dollar cable i got a hhghreg works fulll 60 hz it does say 600 mhz and deep color 4k on the box but its only 12 foot . at least i know my set up works now got to try some 25 foot ones
> i am looking at these 2 cables as well,,
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JZCSPWO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_4wLZwbV24MBW7?tag=vs-tech-convert-amazon-20
> https://www.amazon.com/Czoom-HDMI-C...01H5CY998/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
> 
> thank you very much for the reply


I agree with Otto Pylot - you are entering uncharted waters and most cables do not work with 600 mGz [email protected] 4:4:4 signals. That said, the thicker the cable the more chance it will be able to pass that 600 MHz signal without dropouts. I would definitely say away from _Plug-Lug cables_, even their HD-1000 cables (the next level above the HD-600 that you linked to). When I tested out their 16 foot HD-1000 cable, it failed passing a 600 MHZ signal, so why should the cheaper HD-600 25 foot cable be any better? The _Czoom HDMI Cable_ seems like another Amazon _cheap knock-off_ of more expensive cables. None of the advertisement on that page tells me that it can pass a 600 MHz Signal without dropouts! The _Czoom HDMI Cable_ has a thickness of 26 AWG - average size for that length. Compare that to the thicker 23.5 AWG of the BJC Series 1 cable. Your chances of success are greatest with the BJC Series 1 cable. But if it does not work, you can always return it to Amazon (which I did for 15 other cables that all failed)!


----------



## finiteyoda

BuckoNZ said:


> Please do!


I got my shipment of Monoprice cables in. I tried the 10' version of both 16119 and 15429 (they're just white and black, identical otherwise). They both work with HDR signals, I tried between receiver and TV, and between receiver and source (Roku Ultra, Samsung K8500, and Xbox One S). All three devices passed HDR without a hitch. (Only the Roku for some reason lost sound, but after restarting it sound was back.)

Just wish these cables weren't so thick, they're 28AWG and much thicker / stiffer than any of my 6' cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

finiteyoda said:


> Just wish these cables weren't so thick, they're 28AWG and much thicker / stiffer than any of my 6' cables.


28AWG is a thin wire. The smaller the number the thicker the wire (not the jacket).


----------



## finiteyoda

It's all relative. I'm saying, these 28AWG cables are far thicker / stiffer than the 34AWG active cables they sell. How much of that is the wire vs the jacket I don't know, but I'm sure Monoprice optimizes the thickness of insulation based on the conditions they expect the cable to be used in (in other words, I doubt they're making the insulation much thicker than it needs to be).


----------



## Otto Pylot

AWG is the actual size of the copper wire and has nothing to do with the final size of the cable.


----------



## finiteyoda

Otto Pylot said:


> AWG is the actual size of the copper wire and has nothing to do with the final size of the cable.


I know that, I'm not an idiot  Since Monoprice doesn't list the exact cable diameter, I'm just letting people know that the one with 28AWG wire is seriously thicker than the 34AWG active one. I understand (and imagine other people do too) that it's not just the wire that's thicker, but the entire construction of the cable.


----------



## rick h101

I have a LG 55C6P and will be picking up either the OPPO 203 or the Panasonic UB900. I was looking at Best Buy the other day for high speed HDMI cables and saw Monster and Rocketfish cables. Has anyone had any good experiences with the Rocketfish cables. I only need an 8 ft. and a 4 ft. cable length. Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

finiteyoda said:


> I know that, I'm not an idiot  Since Monoprice doesn't list the exact cable diameter, I'm just letting people know that the one with 28AWG wire is seriously thicker than the 34AWG active one. I understand (and imagine other people do too) that it's not just the wire that's thicker, but the entire construction of the cable.


Didn't mean to imply that you were. Sorry if you took it that way.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rick h101 said:


> I have a LG 55C6P and will be picking up either the OPPO 203 or the Panasonic UB900. I was looking at Best Buy the other day for high speed HDMI cables and saw Monster and Rocketfish cables. Has anyone had any good experiences with the Rocketfish cables. I only need an 8 ft. and a 4 ft. cable length. Thanks.


You can get just as good of a cable from other vendors at less cost. Monster and Rockefish are overpriced for what you get. If you only need an 8' and 4' then you can find very good cables from Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge.


----------



## BuckoNZ

finiteyoda said:


> I got my shipment of Monoprice cables in. I tried the 10' version of both 16119 and 15429 (they're just white and black, identical otherwise). They both work with HDR signals, I tried between receiver and TV, and between receiver and source (Roku Ultra, Samsung K8500, and Xbox One S). All three devices passed HDR without a hitch. (Only the Roku for some reason lost sound, but after restarting it sound was back.)
> 
> Just wish these cables weren't so thick, they're 28AWG and much thicker / stiffer than any of my 6' cables.


Thanks dude, I'll place an order for the following and see how I get on:
http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15429&seq=1&format=2


----------



## danbez

BuckoNZ said:


> Thanks dude, I'll place an order for the following and see how I get on:
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15429&seq=1&format=2


I bought a pair of the 20 feet version and connected them with the Ethereal HDM-GA1 Gigabit Accelerator that was recommended by some folks over the JVC projector thread. I had to do it since I have a long distance between my Samsung UHD/Receiver and the projector.

I am happy to say that this combo worked flawless for all 4K modes. The Samsung player pushes it to the limit with their setup screen (4K 60Hz, 18Gbps) and for the first time I manage to see it on the JVC. I even tried a fiber cable sold by Monoprice but that one failed as well.

Daniel.


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbez said:


> I bought a pair of the 20 feet version and connected them with the Ethereal HDM-GA1 Gigabit Accelerator that was recommended by some folks over the JVC projector thread. I had to do it since I have a long distance between my Samsung UHD/Receiver and the projector.
> 
> I am happy to say that this combo worked flawless for all 4K modes. The Samsung player pushes it to the limit with their setup screen (4K 60Hz, 18Gbps) and for the first time I manage to see it on the JVC. I even tried a fiber cable sold by Monoprice but that one failed as well.
> 
> Daniel.


And how much did you pay for the HDM-GA1? What was the gauge of the cable you used to connect to it?


----------



## finiteyoda

Otto Pylot said:


> Didn't mean to imply that you were. Sorry if you took it that way.


Oh, no offense taken (hence the smiley), I just meant I totally understood what you were saying about wire gauge.


----------



## ppoulos

rick h101 said:


> I have a LG 55C6P and will be picking up either the OPPO 203 or the Panasonic UB900. I was looking at Best Buy the other day for high speed HDMI cables and saw Monster and Rocketfish cables. Has anyone had any good experiences with the Rocketfish cables. I only need an 8 ft. and a 4 ft. cable length. Thanks.


Out of the box freshly new Rocketfish In-Wall cables work fine (especially the 8 and 4 foot cables). However, if you twist and bend the ends of the cable too many times, (such as attaching and detaching those cables over-and-over again in tight spaces) then the cables will begin to show dropouts and fail to consistently pass a 600 MHz signal.

I tried one Monster Black Platinum HDMI Cable (12 foot), from Amazon, and it did not work or was it was defective right out of the box. I returned it, since it was also the most expensive cable I bought.


----------



## danbez

Otto Pylot said:


> And how much did you pay for the HDM-GA1? What was the gauge of the cable you used to connect to it?


Around USD 200, so not a cheap fix. I bought it in April 2016, when I realized that fiber optic cable I bought from Monoprice was a flop. 

The original passive cable I had installed was an old HDMI from Monoprice (22 AWG), spec'ed for only 1080p, 4.95Gbps throughput. But with the Ethereal I managed to get up to 4K24Hz (~10Gbps).

My current solution is using two of the cables below (20ft each), with the Ethereal in the middle.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=16121&seq=1&format=2


----------



## G-Rex

danbez said:


> Around USD 200, so not a cheap fix. I bought it in April 2016, when I realized that fiber optic cable I bought from Monoprice was a flop.
> 
> The original passive cable I had installed was an old HDMI from Monoprice (22 AWG), spec'ed for only 1080p, 4.95Gbps throughput. But with the Ethereal I managed to get up to 4K24Hz (~10Gbps).
> 
> My current solution is using two of the cables below (20ft each), with the Ethereal in the middle.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=16121&seq=1&format=2



That's a great price for the HDM-GA1 as its MSRP is significantly higher. Sometimes you get what you pay for.


----------



## aaranddeeman

G-Rex said:


> That's a great price for the HDM-GA1 as its MSRP is significantly higher. Sometimes you get what you pay for.


One can use the HD Fury instead. It will do the same and a lot more..


----------



## G-Rex

If you need the Fury then it is excellent, but with the new Oppo UHD player, a Radiance Pro or a Sony 4K projector with HDR slider, some may not need the HD Fury's additional features.


----------



## aaranddeeman

G-Rex said:


> If you need the Fury then it is excellent, but with the new Oppo UHD player, a Radiance Pro or a Sony 4K projector with HDR slider, some may not need the HD Fury's additional features.


Yes, but that will not solve the HDMI cable length issue the OP has. Fury will be best of both worlds.

Another very radical approach I was thinking to beat the HDMI cable issue is to buy a smaller player like Philips BDP7501 and locate it near the PJ and connect with short cable. Now plug your original HDMI cable that was going to PJ into second output of the player and as input to the AVR for audio..


----------



## Laserion

*60 feet HDMI Cable*

Hello, thanks in advance for any kind of support and advise..

I'm having problems with my system and I'll have only one single chance to correct it. Because it will be replaced under wall.

I'm using a 4K capable AVR (Pioneer SC-LX59), with JVC-RS400 4K projector. Currently i use NEET v1.4, 24 awg cable. Length is 15m (50 feet). I can watch 4K at max. 24hz or 30hz with it(may be with small flicker sometimes). 

Neet® Black Line - 15m - HDMI to HDMI Cable - ** Genuine 24awg ** - 3D - High-Speed HDMI with Ethernet Channel and Audio Return - Cat2 - 15.2Gbps - 1080p - 3D - UHD 4k / 30hz 

What i need is, changing this with a good HDMI 2.0 cable to have *10bit at 4K, 4K-60hz, HDR and avoid any type of flicker issue*. 

(I don't have these kind of good cables in my country, however i have the chance to bring it from US next month, so i'll have a single shot.)

This is the cable which i planned to buy. It has a price of ~175$. I plan to buy 18m(60 feet).

KD-HIFI60ProK 60 ft. HDMI Cable *23 AWG* - support Ultra HD/4K, HDR, 3D, Ethernet, ARC with RedMere Technology

It's specs say:

*Ultra HD/4K Support:* 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/2530Hz at 4:4:4
and 50/60Hz at 4:2:0

So, it seems that there's no 60hz @ 4K - 4:4:4, after 40 feet according to spec. page above. ( I guess my JVC projector max. supports 8 bit for 4:4:4, so this may not be a big issue. I'm not sure. And movies are 24hz for 4K as far as i saw???)

What do you think? Is this going to be a good solution for me. Do you think that this kind of cable; 60 feet but 23 awg and Redmere capable will do a good job for 60hz-4K and stop any kind of trasmission issue for me?

If not, what do you think the best solution can be?


----------



## aaranddeeman

Laserion said:


> Hello, thanks in advance for any kind of support and advise..
> 
> I'm having problems with my system and I'll have only one single chance to correct it. Because it will be replaced under wall.
> 
> I'm using a 4K capable AVR (Pioneer SC-LX59), with JVC-RS400 4K projector. Currently i use NEET v1.4, 24 awg cable. Length is 15m (50 feet). I can watch 4K at max. 24hz or 30hz with it(may be with small flicker sometimes).
> 
> Neet® Black Line - 15m - HDMI to HDMI Cable - ** Genuine 24awg ** - 3D - High-Speed HDMI with Ethernet Channel and Audio Return - Cat2 - 15.2Gbps - 1080p - 3D - UHD 4k / 30hz
> 
> What i need is, changing this with a good HDMI 2.0 cable to have *10bit at 4K, 4K-60hz, HDR and avoid any type of flicker issue*.
> 
> (I don't have these kind of good cables in my country, however i have the chance to bring it from US next month, so i'll have a single shot.)
> 
> This is the cable which i planned to buy. It has a price of ~175$. I plan to buy 18m(60 feet).
> 
> KD-HIFI60ProK 60 ft. HDMI Cable *23 AWG* - support Ultra HD/4K, HDR, 3D, Ethernet, ARC with RedMere Technology
> 
> It's specs say:
> 
> *Ultra HD/4K Support:* 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/2530Hz at 4:4:4
> and 50/60Hz at 4:2:0
> 
> So, it seems that there's no 60hz @ 4K - 4:4:4, after 40 feet according to spec. page above. ( I guess my JVC projector max. supports 8 bit for 4:4:4, so this may not be a big issue. I'm not sure. And movies are 24hz for 4K as far as i saw???)
> 
> What do you think? Is this going to be a good solution for me. Do you think that this kind of cable; 60 feet but 23 awg and Redmere capable will do a good job for 60hz-4K and stop any kind of trasmission issue for me?
> 
> If not, what do you think the best solution can be?



Add a conduit (with a string inside along with whatever current cable you are using) and you are future proof.


----------



## wildchild22

I have tested the Sewell direct 25 and 30 ft cables for [email protected] 4:4:4 and the 25 ft one works perfectly.
The 30 ft cables however do not.

The Blue Jeans Cable Series-1 at 25 feet also works perfectly.


----------



## Laserion

aaranddeeman said:


> Add a conduit (with a string inside along with whatever current cable you are using) and you are future proof.


Conduit can be used but that's not the main issue. I'll have only 1 chance to buy and bring this cable by someone from US. In my country these kind of good cables do not exist.

So, i really need some clear advise to use this 60 feet cable.. Thanks anyway.


----------



## G-Rex

I would not use anything with active hard wired ends, like Redmere. If the chip fails you are done. This also pertains to optical if the ends are hardwired like the Tributaries Aurora. Celerity could work, as it has detachable ends, but it is hit or miss with this cable and the cable itself is somewhat fragile. 

If it were me I would do a quality 24 awg passive cable with the Ethereal Gigabit Accelerator, as long as the GA is reachable and replaceable. Another option would be the 4K Atlona baluns with a solid core cat 6,7 or 8 cable. There is little feedback on the Atlona to date because it was recently released.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion said:


> Conduit can be used but that's not the main issue. I'll have only 1 chance to buy and bring this cable by someone from US. In my country these kind of good cables do not exist.
> 
> So, i really need some clear advise to use this 60 feet cable.. Thanks anyway.


There is no clear advice because not all cables are going to work for all setups. Too many variables. 60' is tough for any cable.


----------



## Laserion

Laserion said:


> Hello, thanks in advance for any kind of support and advise..
> 
> I'm having problems with my system and I'll have only one single chance to correct it. Because it will be replaced under wall.
> 
> I'm using a 4K capable AVR (Pioneer SC-LX59), with JVC-RS400 4K projector. Currently i use NEET v1.4, 24 awg cable. Length is 15m (50 feet). I can watch 4K at max. 24hz or 30hz with it(may be with small flicker sometimes).
> 
> Neet® Black Line - 15m - HDMI to HDMI Cable - ** Genuine 24awg ** - 3D - High-Speed HDMI with Ethernet Channel and Audio Return - Cat2 - 15.2Gbps - 1080p - 3D - UHD 4k / 30hz
> 
> What i need is, changing this with a good HDMI 2.0 cable to have *10bit at 4K, 4K-60hz, HDR and avoid any type of flicker issue*.
> 
> (I don't have these kind of good cables in my country, however i have the chance to bring it from US next month, so i'll have a single shot.)
> 
> This is the cable which i planned to buy. It has a price of ~175$. I plan to buy 18m(60 feet).
> 
> KD-HIFI60ProK 60 ft. HDMI Cable *23 AWG* - support Ultra HD/4K, HDR, 3D, Ethernet, ARC with RedMere Technology
> 
> It's specs say:
> 
> *Ultra HD/4K Support:* 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/2530Hz at 4:4:4
> and 50/60Hz at 4:2:0
> 
> So, it seems that there's no 60hz @ 4K - 4:4:4, after 40 feet according to spec. page above. ( I guess my JVC projector max. supports 8 bit for 4:4:4, so this may not be a big issue. I'm not sure. And movies are 24hz for 4K as far as i saw???)
> 
> What do you think? Is this going to be a good solution for me. Do you think that this kind of cable; 60 feet but 23 awg and Redmere capable will do a good job for 60hz-4K and stop any kind of trasmission issue for me?
> 
> If not, what do you think the best solution can be?





G-Rex said:


> I would not use anything with active hard wired ends, like Redmere. If the chip fails you are done. This also pertains to optical if the ends are hardwired like the Tributaries Aurora. Celerity could work, as it has detachable ends, but it is hit or miss with this cable and the cable itself is somewhat fragile.
> 
> If it were me I would do a quality 24 awg passive cable with the Ethereal Gigabit Accelerator, as long as the GA is reachable and replaceable. Another option would be the 4K Atlona baluns with a solid core cat 6,7 or 8 cable. There is little feedback on the Atlona to date because it was recently released.





Otto Pylot said:


> There is no clear advice because not all cables are going to work for all setups. Too many variables. 60' is tough for any cable.


I checked the Etheral GA, it may be a solution but it's very expensive and it may not be reachable in my system.

By the way, this topic is for 4K @ 60hz ,4:4:4 but i think this is not very necessary for me, because this is not a movie standart i guess, right? From my side, movies are the only issue. Sorry for my lack of knowledge; For what do we need 60hz or 4:4:4?

I'm sure 60 feet is too long and though but the *Keydigital HDMI cable* which i consider seems to have much better and clear specs(23 AWG,31,5gbps and etc...) on paper comparing to listed cables on this topic. It's more expensive,too. So, i still plan to give a chance for it.(I may ask directly to company for a confirmation) Maybe 50 feet can also be enough.

I wonder, isn't there anyone who succeeded to have good result([email protected] hz, with HDR,10bit) with any active or passive cable on 50 or 60 feets without using any supporting device?


----------



## aaranddeeman

Laserion said:


> Conduit can be used but that's not the main issue. I'll have only 1 chance to buy and bring this cable by someone from US. In my country these kind of good cables do not exist.
> 
> So, i really need some clear advise to use this 60 feet cable.. Thanks anyway.


Honestly, 60' a lost bet already at this point.
In future, may be there is a hope.

Try to see if you use the reverse logic I mentioned few posts before.
Move the plater closer to Display. Use the 60' to pass the audio back. But this will only work for one player.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion - as we've stated many times, there are no guarantees, especially at 60', regardless of how good the mfr makes their cables sound. All you can do is take a chance and hope that it works well for you. The use of conduit will make life easier because no matter what you get, changing cables is an inevitability so you might as well plan, and plan well for installing conduit and hope that what you purchase will meet your needs now.


----------



## Tomcup

I just finally got to test out the 40' Silverback S6 HDMI Cable from Sewell - from my GTX 1060 to my EF9500 OLED at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 chroma - AND IT PASSED NO PROBLEM! 

No handshake issues from PC to TV switching between formats on the card - everything responded like it should. Now Running in RGB Full Range (0-255) at 4K 60Hz like a charm. 

This is what I picked up - to be clear:
https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ congratulations! You're one of the lucky ones. Others haven't been so lucky


----------



## DMD61

Good morning
By Christmas I should buy the TV LG 65E6V and the HDMI connection cable I saw this, tested in specialized German laboratory, realized by the magazine-4K ultra HDTV market leader in Germany.
http://www.ultra-hdtv.net/hdmi-2-0-kabel-4k-mit-60hz/
https://www.amazon.de/Ultra-HDTV-Pr...id=1478244117&sr=8-2&keywords=hdmi+ultra+hdtv
You have already heard about and what do you think?

Thank you


----------



## DaMacFunkin

I have seen a lot about those cables, and it seems there is a lot of heavy promotion with them at the moment, lots of reviews about them on Amazon seem to be 'professional' whilst others give them 5 stars because they connect their 1080 cable box to their 4k TV with no problems.
I found one review on Amazon Uk who sounded like he had a 'decent' set up saying he had black screens and loss of sync.
I may buy one just to test.
p.s. in their promotional video they are using it with a Hisense TV, not exactly AV Gold is it?


----------



## Laserion

*60 feet HDMI Cable*



sthompson said:


> Finally after going through the following
> 
> - 50 ft monoprice luxe series active hdmi cable
> - HD Fury Integral
> - 50 ft Celerity fiber hdmi cable
> 
> I found a cable that worked with my JVC RS500 and AV8802A to display [email protected]
> 
> This 75 ft SlimRun cable from Monoprice did the trick.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_...fO0PLpe3cVoApaMvL5RaqiZTXeUbD1WfK8aArUE8P8HAQ
> 
> If anyone is looking to buy the monoprice luxe cable and/or the Integral, I'll be putting them up for sale in the classifieds.


I came up this message during my search to see some positive experiences. Situation is quite similar to me. (JVC projector, AVR..)

At the end, it shows that it's not 100% impossible to achieve [email protected] 4:4:4 - 18 gbps with single cable.

I'm ready to spend ~200$ to a good cable which provides these requirements. This Monoprice and Keydigital Redmere (23 awg-31 gbps) will be my final options. I have to choose one of them. If i'll go through any risk, at least i should try the ones which have highest chances. I also think about contacting directly to these sellers to get some confirmation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

DMD61 said:


> Good morning
> By Christmas I should buy the TV LG 65E6V and the HDMI connection cable I saw this, tested in specialized German laboratory, realized by the magazine-4K ultra HDTV market leader in Germany.
> http://www.ultra-hdtv.net/hdmi-2-0-kabel-4k-mit-60hz/
> https://www.amazon.de/Ultra-HDTV-Pr...id=1478244117&sr=8-2&keywords=hdmi+ultra+hdtv
> You have already heard about and what do you think?
> 
> Thank you


I don't read German so it's hard to see the specs but it looks like the cable is being advertised as an "HDMI 2.0b" cable. That sends up red flags to me because HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to not label their cables with the HDMI hardware spec. That was causing all kinds of confusion. The cable should be marketed as a high speed HDMI cable that meets the current HDMI 2.0b specs, which most modern cables do, or should. Testing in a specialized German laboratory means nothing because you don't know how it was tested and if the method of testing is standardized to make it comparable to other licensed certification labs. Testing is different than certification. If the "testing" is done by an Authorized Testing Center (ATC), the protocols used are standardized and approved by HDMI Licensing, and the cable will come with a certificate of authenticity.

The arrow on one end makes me think it is an active cable, which is one way to extend the length and still maintain signal timing, error correction etc. The HDMI Standards given are basic HDMI 2.0 hardware specs so nothing special there.

The cable may in fact work very well, depending on your setup, devices used, the cable run length, and wire gauge used. Anything else like gold connectors, nitrogen-free copper, what ever, is just all market speak to make it sound like it is a step above all the others. It's also another way to justify the cost if pricey.

How long of a cable run will you have and will the cable be installed in-wall?


----------



## DMD61

I did not know that there were also suitable cables for the 8K!!
http://www.cablesson.co.uk/catalogue/cables/hdmi-cables/kaiser-ii-high-speed-hdmi-with-ethernet/


----------



## scarabaeus

Otto Pylot said:


> DMD61 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good morning
> By Christmas I should buy the TV LG 65E6V and the HDMI connection cable I saw this, tested in specialized German laboratory, realized by the magazine-4K ultra HDTV market leader in Germany.
> http://www.ultra-hdtv.net/hdmi-2-0-kabel-4k-mit-60hz/
> https://www.amazon.de/Ultra-HDTV-Pr...id=1478244117&sr=8-2&keywords=hdmi+ultra+hdtv
> You have already heard about and what do you think?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> I don't read German so it's hard to see the specs but it looks like the cable is being advertised as an "HDMI 2.0b" cable. That sends up red flags to me because HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to not label their cables with the HDMI hardware spec. That was causing all kinds of confusion. The cable should be marketed as a high speed HDMI cable that meets the current HDMI 2.0b specs, which most modern cables do, or should. Testing in a specialized German laboratory means nothing because you don't know how it was tested and if the method of testing is standardized to make it comparable to other licensed certification labs. Testing is different than certification. If the "testing" is done by an Authorized Testing Center (ATC), the protocols used are standardized and approved by HDMI Licensing, and the cable will come with a certificate of authenticity.
> 
> The arrow on one end makes me think it is an active cable, which is one way to extend the length and still maintain signal timing, error correction etc. The HDMI Standards given are basic HDMI 2.0 hardware specs so nothing special there.
> 
> The cable may in fact work very well, depending on your setup, devices used, the cable run length, and wire gauge used. Anything else like gold connectors, nitrogen-free copper, what ever, is just all market speak to make it sound like it is a step above all the others. It's also another way to justify the cost if pricey.
> 
> How long of a cable run will you have and will the cable be installed in-wall?
Click to expand...

I do read german, and the article basically expresses how enthusiastic they were about having their own cable made. They contracted it out to Asia, and picked this one because they liked the boxy aluminum connector design. It does not state whether it's active or passive. I believe it's passive. Also note that Amazon will not deliver this cable to the U.S.

The testing was apparently done with various consumer devices, not with proper test equipment. From their table, it's not clear if any of those test were actually done at 18 GBit/s (4K60 4:4:4), or just at 9 (4K60 4:2:0).


----------



## Otto Pylot

scarabaeus said:


> I do read german, and the article basically expresses how enthusiastic they were about having their own cable made. They contracted it out to Asia, and picked this one because they liked the boxy aluminum connector design. It does not state whether it's active or passive. I believe it's passive. Also note that Amazon will not deliver this cable to the U.S.
> 
> The testing was apparently done with various consumer devices, not with proper test equipment. From their table, it's not clear if any of those test were actually done at 18 GBit/s (4K60 4:4:4), or just at 9 (4K60 4:2:0).


Thanks! Good to know.


----------



## doctorwizz

DMD61 said:


> I did not know that there were also suitable cables for the 8K!!
> http://www.cablesson.co.uk/catalogue/cables/hdmi-cables/kaiser-ii-high-speed-hdmi-with-ethernet/


You have to use two good HDMI cables for 8K. That single cable will not do it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

DMD61 said:


> I did not know that there were also suitable cables for the 8K!!
> http://www.cablesson.co.uk/catalogue/cables/hdmi-cables/kaiser-ii-high-speed-hdmi-with-ethernet/


Pure marketing b.s.


----------



## wildchild22

Well the monoprice blackbird extender works wonders. I have tested [email protected] 4:4:4 600hz using this and 2 of their 20 ft certified HDMI cables with no issues. I think this is the best way for runs over 15. Just buy 2 cables half the needed length with this in the middle here are links.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650

And

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


----------



## doctorwizz

wildchild22 said:


> Well the monoprice blackbird extender works wonders. I have tested [email protected] 4:4:4 600hz using this and 2 of their 20 ft certified HDMI cables with no issues. I think this is the best way for runs over 15. Just buy 2 cables half the needed length with this in the middle here are links.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> 
> And
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


When did they start selling that? Look interesting! Grabbed one.

Bandwidth up to 18Gbps to support the latest HDMI specification
Transmits [email protected] to distances up to 25 meters and [email protected] up to 30 meters
Supports 3D video
CEC Pass through
HDCP 2.2/1.4 compliant
Small and easy to install in any location
Less than 1 watt power consumption
No power supply required

25 (82ft) meters? Woah! What do you think @Otto Pylot?


----------



## tcramer

wildchild22 said:


> Well the monoprice blackbird extender works wonders. I have tested [email protected] 4:4:4 600hz using this and 2 of their 20 ft certified HDMI cables with no issues. I think this is the best way for runs over 15. Just buy 2 cables half the needed length with this in the middle here are links.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> 
> And
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427





doctorwizz said:


> When did they start selling that? Look interesting! Grabbed one.
> 
> Bandwidth up to 18Gbps to support the latest HDMI specification
> Transmits [email protected] to distances up to 25 meters and [email protected] up to 30 meters
> Supports 3D video
> CEC Pass through
> HDCP 2.2/1.4 compliant
> Small and easy to install in any location
> Less than 1 watt power consumption
> No power supply required
> 
> 25 (82ft) meters? Woah! What do you think @Otto Pylot?



I've got one of those Sewell 30 footers on the way to try. If that doesn't work, I'll definitely be giving this a try.

Thanks for the heads-up on this!


----------



## wildchild22

I think the claims are a bit bunch. I expect 2 20 and this will be about the limit. I do not think 50 ft and more will work.

I expect this is just the active chipset not installed in the cable and in enclosure to allow a variety of cables to function.




tcramer said:


> I've got one of those Sewell 30 footers on the way to try. If that doesn't work, I'll definitely be giving this a try.
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up on this!


----------



## Otto Pylot

doctorwizz said:


> When did they start selling that? Look interesting! Grabbed one.
> 
> Bandwidth up to 18Gbps to support the latest HDMI specification
> Transmits [email protected] to distances up to 25 meters and [email protected] up to 30 meters
> Supports 3D video
> CEC Pass through
> HDCP 2.2/1.4 compliant
> Small and easy to install in any location
> Less than 1 watt power consumption
> No power supply required
> 
> 25 (82ft) meters? Woah! What do you think @Otto Pylot?


"Bandwidth UP TO 18Gbps" means what? It doesn't really say that it can sustain 18Gbps over a given length. 82'? That would be nice but not likely, at least for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. The rest of the specs are just boiler plate HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. Certainly can't hurt to try though depending on the return policy.


----------



## robdman

*Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 35ft ..Passed 4K*

My Sony VW VPL 665 projecter with the new update 10/31/2016 
Version 
2.301 
with the Yamaha CX-5100 pre amp with the latest update CX-A5100 Firmware Update Version 1.89 + 5000 Yamaha power Amp with the brand new Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 35ft from Monoprice I received yesterday from Monoprice passed 4K HDR with no problems and 
I was using my Panasonic UB 900 ultra 4K blu-ray player and Direct TV 4K content to test.


----------



## Laserion

wildchild22 said:


> Well the monoprice blackbird extender works wonders. I have tested [email protected] 4:4:4 600hz using this and 2 of their 20 ft certified HDMI cables with no issues. I think this is the best way for runs over 15. Just buy 2 cables half the needed length with this in the middle here are links.
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> 
> And
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


Does it mean that this thing can basically do a similar job like HD Fury or Etheral which are very very expensive? It doesn't even need any power supply? Up to 25 meters?

As i wrote in my previous comments, i was searching a 60 feet cable for 4k-60hz-4:4:4 which is very challenging. I was planning to buy Monoprice SlimRun™ AV Cable 75ft and i was aware of the risk. 

However by using this "Blackbird Extender" on the middle, i can choose 2x 30feet (4k-60hz-4:4:4 supported) cable and this will highly minimize the risk.

So, do i think wrong or right way?


----------



## Otto Pylot

It might work but just keep in mind that anytime you introduce a "break" in an otherwise continuous cable run, you run the risk of performance degradation. Daisy chaining has not worked well for some at 1080p. The cable is just a data pipe, and if you put a "bump" in the road........ I for one would like to see if this works so try it and let us know.


----------



## glimerman

*no lick at all on a 25 foot run*

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010G6QYSO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TDR6OZSWGETK
my set up is a evga gtx 1080 ftw out to my oled lg b65


that cable would only go to 30 htz invalid input when i went anything higher in rgb

25 foot sewell 25 foot silverback cable works and the tv does come on in full rgb 60hz but the black has pin dots in it and the screen flickers on me so this works best so far anyone else got a idea i can try i have to send both these cables back i wish i could just mover my pc


----------



## glimerman

Tomcup said:


> I just finally got to test out the 40' Silverback S6 HDMI Cable from Sewell - from my GTX 1060 to my EF9500 OLED at 4K 60hz 4:4:4 chroma - AND IT PASSED NO PROBLEM!
> 
> No handshake issues from PC to TV switching between formats on the card - everything responded like it should. Now Running in RGB Full Range (0-255) at 4K 60Hz like a charm.
> 
> This is what I picked up - to be clear:
> https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-40-ft-


i got the 25 foot silverback and it dont work with my set up im on a lg b65 and run a 1080 card
what are your settings in your nivida control panel ? this is my pc moniter but i should set my tv the same way correct ? for the 4:4:4


----------



## wildchild22

I have only tested 2x 20 ft cables for a total of 40 feet. I do not have longer cables to test any further distance. But the 2 20 cables and the extender works fine.






Laserion said:


> Does it mean that this thing can basically do a similar job like HD Fury or Etheral which are very very expensive? It doesn't even need any power supply? Up to 25 meters?
> 
> As i wrote in my previous comments, i was searching a 60 feet cable for 4k-60hz-4:4:4 which is very challenging. I was planning to buy Monoprice SlimRun™ AV Cable 75ft and i was aware of the risk.
> 
> However by using this "Blackbird Extender" on the middle, i can choose 2x 30feet (4k-60hz-4:4:4 supported) cable and this will highly minimize the risk.
> 
> So, do i think wrong or right way?


----------



## glimerman

danbfree said:


> So you ended up being exactly right, thanks for pointing me the right way!


i been having trouble too i get perfect 4:4:4 60hz 4k on a 6 foot cable i need to go 20 foot 3 tries no luck so i just ordered this i hope it works for me thanks for the info on this page


----------



## danbfree

glimerman said:


> i been having trouble too i get perfect 4:4:4 60hz 4k on a 6 foot cable i need to go 20 foot 3 tries no luck so i just ordered this i hope it works for me thanks for the info on this page


I can't find the original post, so sorry if this is exactly what we said, but go with the Monoprice Premium Certified cable, they are very cheap and have in sizes up to 20 ft.


----------



## My Dream

I want to apologize for not going through 1168 posts and high jacking this thread to figure out the answer to my question, but I'm hoping someone can answer this for me. 

This is my set up and haven't installed it yet but I'd like to order some hdmi cables. I only need 3 feet as the Samsung 8000 has the one connect with is close to 10'. 

Samsung 65" KS 8000 TV 4K
Bose acousmatic 10, 5.1 speakers (old style, unpowered sub, existing).
Minix Neo U1 or Nvidia Shield 4k Android Box.
Denon AVR-X3200W 4k receiver
Samsung UBD-K8500 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player. 

Which HDMI cables will work best with the 4K hdr set up, or anyone have a better selection as I'm a newbie at this? Some are a 3 pack hence the price difference. 

1.AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 3 Feet https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SP4W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

2.Twisted Veins (3 ft) High Speed HDMI Cables https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FX6ST8G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17W6NLJ3OBMCK

3.Cablelera High Speed HDMI with Ethernet, Male/Male, 3' Black Color https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011ESUDKI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

At 3' just about any passive high speed HDMI cable will work. Price is subjective as there are cable mfrs who will charge you a high price based on their specs when in reality their cables work just as well. There is no guarantee that any cable will perform as expected for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz (if that's what you are shooting for) but a 3' cable run makes it so much easier. I would look at Monoprice, BJC, or MediaBridge as those cables are built a bit better than the cheap Chinese cables that Amazon sells.


----------



## glimerman

My Dream said:


> I want to apologize for not going through 1168 posts and high jacking this thread to figure out the answer to my question, but I'm hoping someone can answer this for me.
> 
> This is my set up and haven't installed it yet but I'd like to order some hdmi cables. I only need 3 feet as the Samsung 8000 has the one connect with is close to 10'.
> 
> Samsung 65" KS 8000 TV 4K
> Bose acousmatic 10, 5.1 speakers (old style, unpowered sub, existing).
> Minix Neo U1 or Nvidia Shield 4k Android Box.
> Denon AVR-X3200W 4k receiver
> Samsung UBD-K8500 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player.
> 
> Which HDMI cables will work best with the 4K hdr set up, or anyone have a better selection as I'm a newbie at this? Some are a 3 pack hence the price difference.
> 
> 1.AmazonBasics High-Speed HDMI Cable - 3 Feet https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SP4W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> 2.Twisted Veins (3 ft) High Speed HDMI Cables https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FX6ST8G/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A17W6NLJ3OBMCK
> 
> 3.Cablelera High Speed HDMI with Ethernet, Male/Male, 3' Black Color https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011ESUDKI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> 
> Thanks



http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105
try that alot of people say it works great under 15 feet


----------



## Almondo99

Question - are these symptoms usually the fault of the HDMI cable?
I'm getting audio dropouts (second long) in games, movies and music. Sometimes the 4K 60HZ display will start getting choppy, only a switch to 59HZ or something will fix it.


----------



## glimerman

Almondo99 said:


> Question - are these symptoms usually the fault of the HDMI cable?
> I'm getting audio dropouts (second long) in games, movies and music. Sometimes the 4K 60HZ display will start getting choppy, only a switch to 59HZ or something will fix it.


yes 100 percent i been messing with cables for 2 weeks if i run a good 6 foot cable everything is 100 perfect .i played games for hours yesterday no issue but if i change cables i lose 60htz or its shoopy or dont work at all 
i need a 20 foot cable to run 60htz 4:4:4 and still havent found one ,go to best buy and get a 100 dollar cable and try that if it works you know everything is correct on your end


----------



## doctorwizz

Got the Blackbird 4K Pro HDMI® 2.0 Repeater [email protected] YUV 4:4:4 delivered yesterday. 

I plugged a KabelDirekt (20 feet) HDMI Cable (1080p 4K 3D High Speed with Ethernet ARC) - PRO Series into a Nvidia GTX-980 video card. 
Other end into the Blackbird 4K Pro's input. Which is directional. 
Then plugged a KabelDirekt Pro (15 feet) HDMI Cable into the Blackbird's output that goes to a Denon x4200 AVR.
The x4200 AVR has a KabelDirekt Pro (3 feet) HDMI Cable that goes to a Samsung 8550 4K UHD TV.
That is a total of 38 feet of KD Pro HDMI cables. 

No random black screens on PC at 2160P, 60Hz, 4:4:4. Pass
Tested a 100 Mbps 4K video, which is a high bitrate. Pass
Tested several ATMOS Blu-rays that I ripped and store on a router attached hard drive. Pass
Tested a few DTS:X ripped Blu-rays. Pass
Not tested, 4K UHD Blu-ray player. I don't have one yet. 
Didn't test my Nividia Shield. 


This device definitely works with good cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

glimerman said:


> go to best buy and get a 100 dollar cable and try that if it works you know everything is correct on your end


Price is no guarantee that the cable will work. BB sells Monster and AudioQuest which are way over-priced for what you get. If you're ok with spending $100 on a non-fiber optic cable then go for it.


----------



## glimerman

Otto Pylot said:


> Price is no guarantee that the cable will work. BB sells Monster and AudioQuest which are way over-priced for what you get. If you're ok with spending $100 on a non-fiber optic cable then go for it.


i mean i bought it and tested and took it back got my money back


----------



## Otto Pylot

glimerman said:


> i mean i bought it and tested and took it back got my money back


I see. Sorry it didn't work but glad you got your money back.


----------



## zapete

This seems to be the right thread for my problem.

TV: LG B6

PC Specs:
CPU: i7-6700k
GPU: GTX1070
RAM: 16GB DDR4
Motherboard: MSI Z170A Gaming Pro
PSU: EVGA Supernova 750 G2

TV Settings:
- Picture Mode: Vivid
- Sharpness: 0
- HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour -> "On" for HDMI 1 only
- Changed "Input Label" for HDMI 1 to "PC". 

GPU Settings:









Cable:
BJC Series-FE Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable (10ft)

What I'm experiencing:



























Flickering horizontal lines and "digital snow". What do you guys think the problem is? If it's cable-related, would anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks


----------



## doctorwizz

zapete said:


> This seems to be the right thread for my problem.
> 
> 
> Flickering horizontal lines and "digital snow". What do you guys think the problem is? If it's cable-related, would anyone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Thanks


I'd say get cable issue.

Use either of these. They work 100%

https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A4HU
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


----------



## Bisnaga

Hey All,

Looking for a 25ft cable before I go with the monoprice extender option. 

Could you guys advise on which 25ft cable I might have a better chance of getting it to work?

Thanks!


----------



## Ted99

Bisnaga said:


> Hey All,
> 
> Looking for a 25ft cable before I go with the monoprice extender option.
> 
> Could you guys advise on which 25ft cable I might have a better chance of getting it to work?
> 
> Thanks!


BJC Series 1, if you can tolerate the stiffness (thick cable)


----------



## glimerman

*working cable*

https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-...rnet/dp/B00DI8A4HU?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20
20 foot working finally after 4 other cables this one working great at 4k 60hz 4:4:4 i ran some games on it for 3 hours not one problem so far.
thank you guys for posting this cable i cant believe for under 20 bucks working great so far i will text it more today


----------



## doctorwizz

glimerman said:


> https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-...rnet/dp/B00DI8A4HU?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20
> 20 foot working finally after 4 other cables this one working great at 4k 60hz 4:4:4 i ran some games on it for 3 hours not one problem so far.
> thank you guys for posting this cable i cant believe for under 20 bucks working great so far i will text it more today


Yep, they work 100% up to 20ft. Been using them for 26 months for 4k/60 at 444.


----------



## glimerman

doctorwizz said:


> Yep, they work 100% up to 20ft. Been using them for 26 months for 4k/60 at 444.


ever try a 30 foot ? so i dont have to rip up my carpet lol and can run it along the wall


----------



## doctorwizz

glimerman said:


> ever try a 30 foot ? so i dont have to rip up my carpet lol and can run it along the wall


Yes. Right now I am using 35ft between PC and AVR with a 20ft and 15ft KDPro with one of these in the middle
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
That little extender works 100%


----------



## Bisnaga

doctorwizz said:


> Yep, they work 100% up to 20ft. Been using them for 26 months for 4k/60 at 444.


Wondering if it will work with a 25ft. I will probably give it a try. 
If it doesn't work, i will probably go with the extender. 

Thanks all! 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## doctorwizz

Bisnaga said:


> Wondering if it will work with a 25ft. I will probably give it a try.
> If it doesn't work, i will probably go with the extender.
> 
> Thanks all!
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


The 25foots have issues at 4k/60. 20ft max.


----------



## glimerman

doctorwizz said:


> Yes. Right now I am using 35ft between PC and AVR with a 20ft and 15ft KDPro with one of these in the middle
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> That little extender works 100%


thanks for the help i will try the same thing


----------



## Laserion

Is anything possible like using 3x cables (20ft+20ft+20ft) and 2 extenders in the middle?


----------



## doctorwizz

Laserion said:


> Is anything possible like using 3x cables (20ft+20ft+20ft) and 2 extenders in the middle?


I have been wondering if that would work. The instructions are very basic. They tell you just to put in between 2 cables. It doesn't even mention that the device is directional. Or if you could use more than one. So, no one knows at this point.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion said:


> Is anything possible like using 3x cables (20ft+20ft+20ft) and 2 extenders in the middle?


The general rule of thumb is that any "break" in the chain can affect proper signal propagation. However, a single extender between two cables seems to work with no issues for 1080p and, in some cases, 4k 4:4:4 @60Hz up to a certain length. However, even though the cables are only 20' cables, the entire run is still 60'. The only thing you can do is try. I for one would like to know if it would work and remain stable over time.


----------



## Axel Olmos

doctorwizz said:


> I'd say get cable issue.
> 
> Use either of these. They work 100%
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A4HU
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


I went with the 20 foot KabelDirect and I now have 4K / HDR / HDCP 2.2 as expected with PS4 PRO -> Denon S910W -> Sony X940c

Thanks for your posting!


----------



## PaulGor

Hi Otto,

I cannot send you a PM as I don't have yet 15 posts, so I decided to ask here, even though it's off-topic - but I plan to buy an expensive TV, it's why...

I plan to buy TV for leaving room - and unlike bedroom, I will need to watch it from an angle.

I saw your 2014  message - that your son's TV is better in that area, but I guess it was a typo in your answer - you listed _same_ panel  - TS01 - in both cases (yours and son's TV):
/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/1294904-samsung-panel-version-thread-30.html#post28698761

So could you please recall what panel your son's TV had where a viewing angle does not such as much?

Regards,
Paul


----------



## Otto Pylot

PaulGor said:


> Hi Otto,
> 
> I cannot send you a PM as I don't have yet 15 posts, so I decided to ask here, even though it's off-topic - but I plan to buy an expensive TV, it's why...
> 
> I plan to buy TV for leaving room - and unlike bedroom, I will need to watch it from an angle.
> 
> I saw your 2014  message - that your son's TV is better in that area, but I guess it was a typo in your answer - you listed _same_ panel  - TS01 - in both cases (yours and son's TV):
> /forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/1294904-samsung-panel-version-thread-30.html#post28698761
> 
> So could you please recall what panel your son's TV had where a viewing angle does not such as much?
> 
> Regards,
> Paul


Hmmm. My son has a Samsung with the S-PVA panel. At that time Txxx was one of the indicators that the panel was an S-PVA. The blacks are very good but off-axis is not so good. My main tv is an LG and it has a confirmed S-IPS panel. The off-axis viewing is to die for but the blacks are not so great. However, I've mitigated that some with a true calibration and proper use of a bias light. The problem with panel types is that it is very difficult at times to determine what you have because mfrs will sometimes change the panel type depending on availability, needs, size, etc. All you can really do is pick a size then go to a B&M, pace off the distance from dead center that you will be watching from and then start moving from side to side to see where the pq begins to fade and see if that "off-axis" angle will meet your needs. You might want to note the complete model number because you may be able to use that to figure out what kind of panel you have if you move to another size.

I haven't been in the market for a main tv for quite sometime now but if it's still like it was when I was looking, you'll have to decide on where you want to compromise and what you can live with.


----------



## PaulGor

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm. My son has a Samsung with the S-PVA panel. At that time Txxx was one of the indicators that the panel was an S-PVA. The blacks are very good but off-axis is not so good. My main tv is an LG and it has a confirmed S-IPS panel. The off-axis viewing is to die for but the blacks are not so great. However, I've mitigated that some with a true calibration and proper use of a bias light. The problem with panel types is that it is very difficult at times to determine what you have because mfrs will sometimes change the panel type depending on availability, needs, size, etc. All you can really do is pick a size then go to a B&M, pace off the distance from dead center that you will be watching from and then start moving from side to side to see where the pq begins to fade and see if that "off-axis" angle will meet your needs. You might want to note the complete model number because you may be able to use that to figure out what kind of panel you have if you move to another size.
> 
> I haven't been in the market for a main tv for quite sometime now but if it's still like it was when I was looking, you'll have to decide on where you want to compromise and what you can live with.


Thanks, Otto!


----------



## sigma722

Went ahead and ordered one of those extenders. Ordered a couple of 20' kable direct passives, as well as the 40' monoprice cabernet. Going to try them all at someone who has 4k setup and confirm we can get 4k hdr. 

I'll need roughly 40' from cabinet to pj...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keep in mind that daisy chaining passive cables with an active extender may work for 1080p but anytime you "break" the chain you run the risk of signal degradation. A 40' active cable, in theory, should work but 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is proving to be a real challenge for a lot of people. The main issue is the version of Redmere chipsets used and the gauge of the wire. The thicker the gauge, the better your chances are but you will lose flexibility and increase the strain on the inputs. The version of Redmere chipset used is next to impossible to determine as the newest chipsets just started coming out earlier in the year. Monoprice has a good return policy so at least you're covered there. Let us know how it works out.

A lot of folks seem to be having better luck with the Celerity Fiber Optic cables but they are pricey. At 40', if you run your cables in a conduit then swapping out cables is relatively easy. The termination ends are also easy to "upgrade" as better chipsets become available so there's no need to pull the cable, just install new termination.


----------



## Ted99

I ordered the Sewell Direct 30' Silverback cable when it was first released based on the assertion that it had been tested. I haven't opened the package, yet; because I am waiting for the Oppo 203. Reports on this cable in the AVS forums are 50:50 on whether it works at 30'. I decided to move my AVR to a position halfway between the screen and the PJ and asked Sewell Direct for an RMA for exchange to a shorter length--A MONTH AGO. Despite several attempts, I have received no response from Customer Service.


----------



## sigma722

Ted99 said:


> I ordered the Sewell Direct 30' Silverback cable when it was first released based on the assertion that it had been tested. I haven't opened the package, yet; because I am waiting for the Oppo 203. Reports on this cable in the AVS forums are 50:50 on whether it works at 30'. I decided to move my AVR to a position halfway between the screen and the PJ and asked Sewell Direct for an RMA for exchange to a shorter length--A MONTH AGO. Despite several attempts, I have received no response from Customer Service.


Yeah, won't be trying them.


----------



## DJgooti

I found a brand called Tera Grand selling ATC certified HDMI on Amazon with decent pricing and went ahead and tried them out. They are a little more pricey than monoprice's.

Purchased a 10ft and a 6ft and can confirm that they worked with no problems. 4k HDR HDCP 2.2 all good.

Their packaging also had legit HDMI certified labels. Another one to add to the list.


----------



## Otto Pylot

DJgooti said:


> I found a brand called Tera Grand selling ATC certified HDMI on Amazon with decent pricing and went ahead and tried them out. They are a little more pricey than monoprice's.
> 
> Purchased a 10ft and a 6ft and can confirm that they worked with no problems. 4k HDR HDCP 2.2 all good.
> 
> Their packaging also had legit HDMI certified labels. Another one to add to the list.


10' and 6' is not the problem. It's the lengths longer than about 20' that are causing issues, certified or not.


----------



## DJgooti

Otto Pylot said:


> 10' and 6' is not the problem. It's the lengths longer than about 20' that are causing issues, certified or not.


I see! The chinese need to get to work...


----------



## Almondo99

Farstrider 25ft was a no go. Get random video drops and sometimes total connection failures. 

Tried the Sewell 25ft, Amazon Basics 25ft - have a 25ft Kabeldirekt on order, anyone have any other suggestions to try for a 25ft run?


----------



## doctorwizz

Almondo99 said:


> Farstrider 25ft was a no go. Get random video drops and sometimes total connection failures.
> 
> Tried the Sewell 25ft, Amazon Basics 25ft - have a 25ft Kabeldirekt on order, anyone have any other suggestions to try for a 25ft run?


Reviews indicate that the 25' KD Pro won't work. 

I suggest getting a 15' and a 10' KD Pro with a booster in the middle. 
http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650

I use that extender with a 20' and 15' KD Pro. Been 100% perfect for weeks with PC.


----------



## Ted99

doctorwizz said:


> Reviews indicate that the 25' KD Pro won't work.
> 
> I suggest getting a 15' and a 10' KD Pro with a booster in the middle.
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> 
> I use that extender with a 20' and 15' KD Pro. Been 100% perfect for weeks with PC.


One report that BJC Series 1 25' worked


----------



## GGRR8T

This is just so frustrating. I listened to the guy at Bestbye and bought a 6 foot 2.0a HDMI. The TV I just bought was a Sony HiDef set NOT UHD. After reading the box that the HDMI came in I think I have to bring the Sony HiDef TV back and get one that is either UHD or 4K. You would think the blue shirt guys would know what they are sell us.


----------



## Almondo99

15' -> booster -> 10ft works for 4K 60hz 444? That's great to hear, well it'll be up next if the 25' KD doesn't work.


----------



## aaranddeeman

doctorwizz said:


> Reviews indicate that the 25' KD Pro won't work.
> 
> I suggest getting a 15' and a 10' KD Pro with a booster in the middle.
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650
> 
> I use that extender with a 20' and 15' KD Pro. Been 100% perfect for weeks with PC.


May be the same combo, but with monoprice certified premium should work as well.


----------



## doctorwizz

Almondo99 said:


> 15' -> booster -> 10ft works for 4K 60hz 444? That's great to hear, well it'll be up next if the 25' KD doesn't work.




I use a 20ft KD pro and a 15ft KD pro with that booster from PC to AVR. And a 3ft KD pro to TV's external box. 4K/60, 444, ATMOS/DTS:X, is perfect. 
The Monoprice Certified that @aaranddeeman mentioned should work too.


----------



## atcline27

I've read most of this thread just scratching my head. I've got Amazon Basics HDMI cables on all of my devices and it passes everything I need it to just find to my LG c6. 4k @ 60hz, 10bit color, etc. Other than extremely long throws, why is there so much confusion about what brands of cables will do what for under 15ft throws when a basic 6 dollar cable foots the bill just fine? I get zero issues with these things. Used to to monoprice cables, the huge extremely thick gauge kind but they were warping my inputs and over time I had to jiggle them to keep a solid connection. 

LG OLEDC65P, Denon Avr-x4200w 
Onkyo SKS HT-594 + SKS HT-410 - 5.1.4 setup
Intel core i7 4770k @4.4ghz, Asus Strix Raid Pro, 
EVGA FTW GTX 1080 @2050/6200, AOG Gsync Monitor, Acer Predator G25 Laptop 

I love tech.


----------



## doctorwizz

atcline27 said:


> I've read most of this thread just scratching my head. I've got Amazon Basics HDMI cables on all of my devices and it passes everything I need it to just find to my LG c6. 4k @ 60hz, 10bit color, etc. Other than extremely long throws, why is there so much confusion about what brands of cables will do what for under 15ft throws when a basic 6 dollar cable foots the bill just fine? I get zero issues with these things. Used to to monoprice cables, the huge extremely thick gauge kind but they were warping my inputs and over time I had to jiggle them to keep a solid connection.
> 
> LG OLEDC65P, Denon Avr-x4200w
> Onkyo SKS HT-594 + SKS HT-410 - 5.1.4 setup
> Intel core i7 4770k @4.4ghz, Asus Strix Raid Pro,
> EVGA FTW GTX 1080 @2050/6200, AOG Gsync Monitor, Acer Predator G25 Laptop
> 
> I love tech.


Too many recent negative reviews on those cables. They probably get it from different sources. So they may be a YMMV cable. I have never tested them. 

"NOT the latest standard - do not buy if you have a 4K TV"
"only basic HDMI not 2.0"
"Doesn't work with latest Fire TV"

"Terrible product, I have always been told all HDMI cables are equal, but I tried 6 different versions of this cable and they all drop audio and 4k video. I would rate zero stars if possible. By no means am I saying you have to buy over priced monster cables but do not buy these cheaply made things."


----------



## atcline27

doctorwizz said:


> Too many recent negative reviews on those cables. They probably get it from different sources. So they may be a YMMV cable. I have never tested them.
> 
> "NOT the latest standard - do not buy if you have a 4K TV"
> "only basic HDMI not 2.0"
> "Doesn't work with latest Fire TV"
> 
> "Terrible product, I have always been told all HDMI cables are equal, but I tried 6 different versions of this cable and they all drop audio and 4k video. I would rate zero stars if possible. By no means am I saying you have to buy over priced monster cables but do not buy these cheaply made things."


I run 10 devices through them and have no issues and never have. YMMV indeed. I also like to pull the negative reviewers up and see what else they've reviewed. Easy to spot the scummers.. To say they are not the latest standard when they clearly are points to user error or some other nonsense. Or perhaps they got a bump cable  

But 4.7 out of 5 stars and plenty of personal experience I can get behind. Plus I'd just send it back if I had a problem. 

LG OLEDC65P, Denon Avr-x4200w w/ Onkyo SKS HT-594 + SKS HT-410 - 5.1.4 setup
Intel core i7 4770k @4.4ghz, Asus Strix Raid Pro, EVGA FTW GTX 1080 @2050/6200, AOG Gsync Monitor, Acer Predator G25 Laptop 

I love tech.


----------



## Ratman

GGRR8T said:


> This is just so frustrating. I listened to the guy at Bestbye and bought a 6 foot 2.0a HDMI. The TV I just bought was a Sony HiDef set NOT UHD. After reading the box that the HDMI came in I think I have to bring the Sony HiDef TV back and get one that is either UHD or 4K. You would think the blue shirt guys would know what they are sell us.


Sometimes you just smile and shake your head.


----------



## sigma722

I'm currently putting together my theater... The problem is I would like to ideally have 4k/hdr at launch, and the run needed from projector to equipment is about 40'. This will all be in the wall, so having it work from the get go will be important.

So I've purchased a few things:

40' Cabernet Active HDMI from monoprice - Brought this to a buddies and confirmed that it passed 4k and hdr. I stayed for a movie though, and am regretting not watching a 4k hdr movie while using that cable to confirm that it was consistent. Initial tests seemed pretty good though.

40' 22awg commercial HDMI cable from monoprice - Haven't tested this with 4k (but it did pass 1080). Would be pointless. This is sort of the backup solution in case cabernet fails down the line. Supposedly devices like the HDFury Integral can bust the signal at source making it somewhat of an active hdmi cable, making older cables work today. I would likely try that down the line, or worst case, end up buying the Ethereal hdm-ga1, which you put at the display side. It seems to be an ultra sensitive repeater/booster, which upgrades old cables to be 18gbps compliant. It's just really pricey. Anyways, both of these are backup concepts. 

20' kabledirect cables - tested each of these individually and they passed 4k hdr, and then also tried each of them with the blackbird device in the middle. Also seemed to pass the signal. So these will likely be used to deliver hdmi from behind the screen to the receiver. If there is a problem on the source side behind the screen, I could add in the blackbird. Additionally, if both of the above methods fail, I might end up trying to do 2 30' runs with the blackbird in the middle going through my backup-backup conduit .

Hopefully I'm covering all of my bases here.


----------



## Otto Pylot

GGRR8T said:


> This is just so frustrating. I listened to the guy at Bestbye and bought a 6 foot 2.0a HDMI. The TV I just bought was a Sony HiDef set NOT UHD. After reading the box that the HDMI came in I think I have to bring the Sony HiDef TV back and get one that is either UHD or 4K. You would think the blue shirt guys would know what they are sell us.


Say what?  There is no such thing as an HDMI 2.0a cable. They are either High Speed passive or active cables. Period. If your cable run is under about 15' to 20' then practically any good quality high speed HDMI cable will work, for either standard HDTV, 4k or UHD (and maybe even 4K, 4:4:4 @60Hz). The issues that people are having are cable runs over about 20' and trying to reliably push 4K, 4:4:4 @60Hz.


----------



## zapete

doctorwizz said:


> I'd say get cable issue.
> 
> Use either of these. They work 100%
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Cable-1080p-Speed-Ethernet/dp/B00DI8A4HU
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


Because I don't want to risk it anymore, I ordered both of these. The KD cable arrived and has been plugged in for nearly 24 hours now.










For now, it is miles ahead of the BJC cable although not perfect. "Digital snow" hasn't reared its ugly head...yet. Flickering horizontal lines DO happen but rarely (as in only one line after a couple of hours or so) and for a split second. 

Great. I can now point my finger at the source of the problem. Thank you very much for the suggestions.

A little off-topic but, has HDMI run its course? Because I'm seriously baffled how video/image technology advances yet there isn't enough thought put into the connection to sustain a stable signal. I only wish my TV carried a DisplayPort input.

Somewhat off-topic again, can someone explain this?








If my GPU settings are 4:4:4 with 8-bit color depth and I've enabled LG's "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color", wouldn't that count as 10-bit color depth? According to the chart, it is not supported with [email protected] at least. Could that be another reason for a messed up signal?

Thanks


----------



## sigma722

zapete said:


> Somewhat off-topic again, can someone explain this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If my GPU settings are 4:4:4 with 8-bit color depth and I've enabled LG's "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color", wouldn't that count as 10-bit color depth? According to the chart, it is not supported with [email protected] at least. Could that be another reason for a messed up signal?
> 
> Thanks


I'm new to 4k, and especially for PCs, but if you have your PC sending out 8-bit color depth, why would you expect it to register as 10-bit?


----------



## zapete

sigma722 said:


> I'm new to 4k, and especially for PCs, but if you have your PC sending out 8-bit color depth, why would you expect it to register as 10-bit?


I dunno. I'm thinking the TV would be enhancing the image that is supposed to be 8-bit. The signal *FROM* the PC *TO* the TV wouldn't be altered yes, that I understand. I'm more on the idea that it's trying to enhance an 8-bit projection to a 10-bit projection. Basically an enhancement in this situation would be counterproductive is what I think is happening.


----------



## tcramer

I know there were a few interested in the longer Sewell cables that were being pushed by Jared a couple months back. I finally got around to trying out the 30' version tonight and need to report it is a failure on all accounts. I even made sure to set it up as straight as possible, using very wide sweeping curves for my 2 bends (>1' radius). 

Test format:

Tivo Bolt --> Denon 4300H --> JVC RS600
4K Netflix and YouTube sources

Results:

4K 24/30p (pass through): Inconsistent - I would occasionally get a signal, but then it would cut out and I'd get a black screen. Note this was not the input screen, but it would go black intermittently. 
4K 60p: Fail - I was never able to get a signal sync whatsoever.

I will be seeing if I can return this for a full refund, since it's actually less reliable than the Monoprice Luxe cable I've been using. Next I'm going to give that Monoprice blackbird extender a whirl, with a 10' Premium certified cable of theirs on one end and a 20' one on the other.


----------



## wse

I have a 20 feet and 15 feet of these they work beautifully!

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2

I wonder if these work as well? http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=13590&seq=1&format=2


----------



## doctorwizz

wse said:


> I have a 20 feet and 15 feet of these they work beautifully!
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024021&p_id=15427&seq=1&format=2
> 
> I wonder if these work as well? http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024014&p_id=13590&seq=1&format=2


Stay away from those active cables for 4k/60 444. I had 2 that do not work. The 18Gbps is pure BS.

A review from that item:
No signal
I bought two of these for my Nvidia Shield and 4K upscale Blu-ray player, neither of which gave off a signal when I swapped out for these HDMI cables. Am already in the process of returning them.


----------



## mywhitenoise

I need a 35 - 40ft HDMI run to achieve UHD in 4k resolution. Is there any foolproof way to achieve this?

I just bought a PS4 Pro last night, and learned the hard way that my 40ft Luxe HDMI cable from Monoprice (that falsely claims 18 Gbps) will not transmit HDR at a 4k resolution. 


Equipment:

TV - Samsung 65KS8000

Pre/Pro - Marantz AV7702 mkII


----------



## Ratman

mywhitenoise said:


> I need a 35 - 40ft HDMI run to achieve UHD in 4k resolution. Is there any foolproof way to achieve this?


 Usually not and the 1200 prior posts confirm that issue.


----------



## mywhitenoise

Ratman said:


> Usually not and the 1200 prior posts support that issue.


I went back and read the last 5 pages, there seems to be some good results with this booster from Monoprice, paired with KabelDirekt Pro cables. Here's hoping it works.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15650

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DI8A4HU/ref=twister_B00OUUVM3U?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## doctorwizz

Monoprice has the Blackbird HDMI 2.0 extender on sale for 13.99. I paid 19.99.


----------



## thatguy1985

mywhitenoise said:


> I need a 35 - 40ft HDMI run to achieve UHD in 4k resolution. Is there any foolproof way to achieve this?
> 
> I just bought a PS4 Pro last night, and learned the hard way that my 40ft Luxe HDMI cable from Monoprice (that falsely claims 18 Gbps) will not transmit HDR at a 4k resolution.
> 
> 
> Equipment:
> 
> TV - Samsung 65KS8000
> 
> Pre/Pro - Marantz AV7702 mkII



I've got a Pioneer SC-95 Pre/Pro and a JVC DLA-500 projector and just purchased a PS4 Pro myself. Bummed to hear though that my 25' Monoprice Cabernet may not work for 4k. If the 25' Monoprice is run through a drywall ceiling and connects directly from the AVR to the JVC, where would be the best place to put the Blackbird - http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041914&p_id=15650&seq=1&format=2?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Otto Pylot

thatguy1985 said:


> I've got a Pioneer SC-95 Pre/Pro and a JVC DLA-500 projector and just purchased a PS4 Pro myself. Bummed to hear though that my 25' Monoprice Cabernet may not work for 4k. If the 25' Monoprice is run through a drywall ceiling and connects directly from the AVR to the JVC, where would be the best place to put the Blackbird - http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041914&p_id=15650&seq=1&format=2?
> 
> Thanks in advance


This particular extender does not have an external power supply () so it needs to be connected to the sink device so it can draw power from the HDMI input. Good luck. Did you by any chance install your cable in a conduit?


----------



## thatguy1985

Otto Pylot said:


> This particular extender does not have an external power supply () so it needs to be connected to the sink device so it can draw power from the HDMI input. Good luck. Did you by any chance install your cable in a conduit?


For starters, what is a sink device? Would the AVR not be that? Sorry if this is a dumb question. 

That would've been smart to do, but unfortunately no. Would the HDFury work for what I'd need and I'd just have the HD Fury plugged up next to the power outlet by the projector and a short HDMI jumper between the unit and the HD Fury? 

My primary goal is really just for UHD BD, but the PS4 Pro for streaming is an added bonus. (So, I guess I'm looking at 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:4:4)

Thanks


----------



## mywhitenoise

thatguy1985 said:


> My primary goal is really just for UHD BD, but the PS4 Pro for streaming is an added bonus. (So, I guess I'm looking at 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:4:4)


The PS4 Pro doesn't play UHD.


----------



## thatguy1985

mywhitenoise said:


> The PS4 Pro doesn't play UHD.


Nope it sure doesn't, hence why I mentioned the PS4 Pro for streaming 4k and not playing UHD discs. While on this topic however, you had mentioned that your Luxe cable did not work. Did it not display a picture at all or just place the picture in the appropriate color space?

Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

thatguy1985 said:


> For starters, what is a sink device? Would the AVR not be that? Sorry if this is a dumb question.
> 
> That would've been smart to do, but unfortunately no. Would the HDFury work for what I'd need and I'd just have the HD Fury plugged up next to the power outlet by the projector and a short HDMI jumper between the unit and the HD Fury?
> 
> My primary goal is really just for UHD BD, but the PS4 Pro for streaming is an added bonus. (So, I guess I'm looking at 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:4:4)
> 
> Thanks


For an active cable or a cable with an active extender, the sink device is the device "at the end of the chain" that it is connected to. Source is where it is coming from and sink is it's final destination.

All you can do is try with the HDFury but keep in mind the more connectors you put between the source and sink (final destination) you run the risk of signal degradation. You are also limited by the chipsets used in the active extenders/active cables as to whether they are current enough to handle 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over distances longer than about 20', regardless of what the mfr claims. Some work, some don't. So you just need to do a little trial and error.

It is unfortunate that you didn't run conduit because you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later as the video standards become more demanding. That's why a lot of folks are having better luck with the fiber optic cables than HDMI cables.


----------



## thatguy1985

Otto Pylot said:


> For an active cable or a cable with an active extender, the sink device is the device "at the end of the chain" that it is connected to. Source is where it is coming from and sink is it's final destination.
> 
> All you can do is try with the HDFury but keep in mind the more connectors you put between the source and sink (final destination) you run the risk of signal degradation. You are also limited by the chipsets used in the active extenders/active cables as to whether they are current enough to handle 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over distances longer than about 20', regardless of what the mfr claims. Some work, some don't. So you just need to do a little trial and error.
> 
> It is unfortunate that you didn't run conduit because you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later as the video standards become more demanding. That's why a lot of folks are having better luck with the fiber optic cables than HDMI cables.



Otto, 

Thank you for the rundown. My PS4 Pro comes in on Tuesday and I'm eyeing either the Panasonic DMP-UB900 or the upcoming Oppo 203 for my UHD player, so we'll see how the Monoprice 25' Cabernet cable fares. 

Thank you again for the information and we'll see if I need to chip in for an HD Fury down the road.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thatguy1985 said:


> Otto,
> 
> Thank you for the rundown. My PS4 Pro comes in on Tuesday and I'm eyeing either the Panasonic DMP-UB900 or the upcoming Oppo 203 for my UHD player, so we'll see how the Monoprice 25' Cabernet cable fares.
> 
> Thank you again for the information and we'll see if I need to chip in for an HD Fury down the road.


We certainly hope that your cable setup works. Let us know and don't forget to keep your bend radius to a minimum.


----------



## jugsta

Evening Gentlemen (and ladies). I'm hopping over from a few threads relating to some of the equipment that is giving me grief. I've recently put quite a bit of cash into my HT (OLED65C6P, Pioneer SC-95, PS4 Pro, Xbox One S).

I'm having a pretty rough time with the PS4 Pro. I'm sure some of you have read about the issues that have surfaced with people trying to push the highest level quality from the PS4 to the TV. I'm in that camp. The following setup results in black screen when I try to push 4:4:4 from my PS4 Pro. The HDMI light on the AVR goes on and off and the audio indicator switches between PCM and Stereo. The TV searches for an input.

*Original Setup*
*PS4 Pro* *Pioneer SC-95 * *HDMI Coupler on Wall Plate* *2 X 90 Degree HDMI couplers (to relieve cable tension)* ---> *LG OLED65C6P*[/QUOTE]

Assuming I have all the settings correct (I do), my firmwares are up to date (they are), and my short HDMI runs are all certified 18Gbps - what the hell else could this be (besides the 50ft cable)?

*FACTS*
The same setup works for my Xbox One S (4K 10 Bit, HDR), only differences being the cable from the unit to the receiver
I'm able to get 4K RGB to work when connecting the PS4 Pro directly to the TV with the 50 ft HDMI cable (this cable is the suspected weak link)

In all likelihood you guys are going to tell me the run is too long. I understand. I guess I was wondering if you guys had any further troubleshooting ideas and any alternatives to my current cable. I'd say the distance between my AVR and the TV is somewhere around 25-30 feet as the crow flies. The 50 foot cable was purchased so I could route the cable cleanly.

Thanks for any assistance.


----------



## thatguy1985

*PS4 Pro / JVC 4K HDR (first world problem) troubles*

Hey jugsta, 

Having a similar issue with my PS4 Pro / Pioneer SC-95 / JVC DLA-550 projector. I had no problem with the unit displaying a picture automatically, though it seems I'm only getting 2K HDR. Not quite sure if it's the system or an actual setting on my projector. Image attached below.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta - 56', if I read you correctly is going to be next to impossible, especially considering you are going thru a wall plate connector that is not active. Even if you had an active extender it is doubtful that you'd get a reliable connection. If you've used a conduit for that length, I'd pull the HDMI cable and look into something like a fiber optic cable if nothing else works. A 6' "18Gbps certified" cable is possible but a 50' 18Gbps cable is highly doubtful.


----------



## MadMyers

Apologies if this has been written before (I haven't gone back and read every post).

I've verified my 25' Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 cables I purchased last November (a year ago) work with UHD, 10-bit, HDR.

Specifically, with an Xbox One S, I can get video and my JVC RS500 displays 3840p/60 w/HDR enabled and 10-bit.

Also worked when I set the Xbox to output 12 bit.

This is with the Xbox One S connected directly to the JVC.

Just FYI. I'd read elsewhere it didn't work.

... Altan


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that's one of the frustrating thing about this whole mess. Some cables do work at 25' for 4k,4:4:4 @60Hz so connected devices also play a part in the reliability of the connection. Glad to hear that it works well for you because for most, it doesn't.


----------



## BJBBJB

Had issues with 16 foot monster cable ultra hd black premium going from Panny DMP-UB900 to Sony XBR75X940D. It passed the 60p 4:4:4 test but eventually menu flickered or went black. Read this thread and got the Blue Jeans Cable 15 foot BJC series-FEI and it has been rock solid so far. My Minix U1 is next to try. I know it connected at 60p with another cable but not sure of its color/bit depth.

Thanks for the help.

BJBBJB


----------



## thatguy1985

MadMyers said:


> Apologies if this has been written before (I haven't gone back and read every post).
> 
> I've verified my 25' Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 cables I purchased last November (a year ago) work with UHD, 10-bit, HDR.
> 
> Specifically, with an Xbox One S, I can get video and my JVC RS500 displays 3840p/60 w/HDR enabled and 10-bit.
> 
> Also worked when I set the Xbox to output 12 bit.
> 
> This is with the Xbox One S connected directly to the JVC.
> 
> Just FYI. I'd read elsewhere it didn't work.
> 
> ... Altan



Sounds like I may have my answer with my 25' Monoprice Cabernet HDMI question in regards to my PS4 Pro. It was stating that I could only get 2K HDR at 4K60 (10bit?), but not 4K HDR (12bit?). Beginning to think it may be a combo of the firmware on the system itself and the way I have my setup connected from the PS4 Pro -> Pioneer SC-95 -> JVC. 

Thanks MadMyers!


----------



## davisnub

Still no luck with anything reliable in the hdmi world? I remember a poster a couple pages back mentioning that something would come up late 2016 that would solve our problems... Looks like I better run a pull wire in order to replace whatever current HDMI cord I will install for my current set up


----------



## Ratman

You may be able to use the existing HDMI as the "pull wire" when you're ready for new one. Just a thought...


----------



## Fiend Busa

glimerman said:


> yes 100 percent i been messing with cables for 2 weeks if i run a good 6 foot cable everything is 100 perfect .i played games for hours yesterday no issue but if i change cables i lose 60htz or its shoopy or dont work at all
> i need a 20 foot cable to run 60htz 4:4:4 and still havent found one ,go to best buy and get a 100 dollar cable and try that if it works you know everything is correct on your end


I am currently using this 20ft HDMI cable, works perfect.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105


----------



## tevy

Has anyone tried a HDMI 2.0 wall plate?

I'm sure one cable from the TV to the receiver would be best but this would offer a little more flexibility when pulling the console out and fiddling with connections.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DZOW3XK/ref=twister_B01LXNRGC9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

tevy said:


> Has anyone tried a HDMI 2.0 wall plate?
> 
> I'm sure one cable from the TV to the receiver would be best but this would offer a little more flexibility when pulling the console out and fiddling with connections.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DZOW3XK/ref=twister_B01LXNRGC9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


The description says it works with HDMI 1.3a, 1.3b, 1.4, and 2.0. Basically it works with HDMI. But the technical specs say it is certified for HMDI 1.3a, what ever that means. It's just an HDMI connector. Your best and most reliable connection would be a single, unbroken connection as you suggested. I take it the rest of your cable is in-wall? Depending on what you are going to push, the $10 wall plate will probably work, however it doesn't appear to be powered (like an extender) so it all depends on the entire distance and what you hope to achieve.


----------



## BDS369

I just purchased the 30ft sewell S6 cable on amazon and threw it between my Xbox One S and Vizio P75-c1. 
It failed (completely black picture and tv staying No signal) as soon as I enabled HDMI color sub-sampling on my TV. 
I intended to put this cable between the TV and my AVR (Pioneer SC-95) but wanted to test it directly first. 

I jumped on Sewell's site and was able to get a very good tech guy on their chat support. They are sending me out another cable which they claim they will test first free of charge and a return shipping label for the defective cable. 
I'm not entirely optimistic that it will work given all I have read but I do have to give them credit for having good support and trying to stand behind their product. I have read about negative experiences others have had - I already got the email for the shipping so mine has been good. 
Will post another reply when I test the replacement some time next week 

Can anyone who has a booster comment on if it affects the latency at all? That might be an unfortunate option I have to explore but I am concerned about input lag while gaming. Ordered one anyways just to see


----------



## tevy

Otto Pylot said:


> The description says it works with HDMI 1.3a, 1.3b, 1.4, and 2.0. Basically it works with HDMI. But the technical specs say it is certified for HMDI 1.3a, what ever that means. It's just an HDMI connector. Your best and most reliable connection would be a single, unbroken connection as you suggested. I take it the rest of your cable is in-wall? Depending on what you are going to push, the $10 wall plate will probably work, however it doesn't appear to be powered (like an extender) so it all depends on the entire distance and what you hope to achieve.


Yeah, my current setup is an HDMI wall plate and HDMI cable running in the wall straight up to my wall mount (about 4-5 up). Then I just run a short HDMI cable from the receiver to the wall plate. For regular HDMI it works fine but I feel that it could be problematic with 4K content. Probably better to have a straight run with a single cable.

Thank for your feedback!


----------



## Otto Pylot

tevy said:


> Yeah, my current setup is an HDMI wall plate and HDMI cable running in the wall straight up to my wall mount (about 4-5 up). Then I just run a short HDMI cable from the receiver to the wall plate. For regular HDMI it works fine but I feel that it could be problematic with 4K content. Probably better to have a straight run with a single cable.
> 
> Thank for your feedback!


If your run is only about 6' or so, it may work for "regular" 4k. I just don't know what they mean about the wall plate being "certified" for HDMI 1.3a. Sounds like marketing b.s. But then again, it is only a $10 connector. Can you re-cable?


----------



## tevy

Originally Posted by *tevy*  
_Yeah, my current setup is an HDMI wall plate and HDMI cable running in the wall straight up to my wall mount (about 4-5 up). Then I just run a short HDMI cable from the receiver to the wall plate. For regular HDMI it works fine but I feel that it could be problematic with 4K content. Probably better to have a straight run with a single cable.

Thank for your feedback!_
If your run is only about 6' or so, it may work for "regular" 4k. I just don't know what they mean about the wall plate being "certified" for HDMI 1.3a. Sounds like marketing b.s. But then again, it is only a $10 connector. Can you re-cable?

Yeah it's not a big deal to run new cable if it doesn't work. There are also variations of the wall plate that have just just female plugs on both sides... that might be better since it doesn't introduce the short pigtail of questionable quality cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Cool. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## kutlow77

I have a jvc rs400 and the Samsung 8500 uhd player. My monster black platinum hdmi cable will not give me a picture. Can someone tell me a good blue jean cable that will work


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ how long is your cable run? For UHD the distance and wire gauge are important considerations.


----------



## jugsta

I'm now subscribed to this. I'm will eagerly view each post in hopes of someone reporting a sub-$100, 50-foot cable that passes 4K, 4:4:4, 60Hz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> I'm now subscribed to this. I'm will eagerly view each post in hopes of someone reporting a sub-$100, 50-foot cable that passes 4K, 4:4:4, 60Hz.


Don't hold your breath. It's going to be a long time before you can meet that criteria, if ever. Start saving for a fiber optic cable (Celerity comes to mind), and make sure you run what ever in a conduit so you can easily maintain your cable should you need to do so.


----------



## Bisnaga

Hey guys, 

Just to inform that i already received the monoprice 4k blackbird repeater and it works great with two kabledirekt cables (3m and 5m). 
Tried several 7.5 meter cables, but none of them were able to keep the 444 60hz signal. 

Thank you all for the help. Without it, i wouldn't be able to get my rig up and running. 

Happy Holidays to everyone! 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


----------



## chowyunfatt

First time poster, been reading this thread a while.

Just planning my install at the minute and need 10m so i've ordered 2 5m cables.
KabelDirekt 5m HDMI Cable

and one,
Blackbird 4K Pro HDMI® 2.0 Repeater [email protected] YUV 4:4:4

Im from the UK so had to order that from the #US. (Not sure a similar item will work from UK?)
Hopefully it should work going by reports from other users (thanks)
I'll report back when I get them and test, I'll also make sure to leave a draw wire in place too as I just know in a few years things will change.

Looks like this is the best solution at the minute with out spending crazy money.


----------



## Gowry

*Frustrating*

This is frustrating. I'm on my 3rd cable from Monoprice. 
I'm using a Roku Ultra with a JVC RS400 and a Denon x4200w.

I started with a 50' Luxe cable which worked at 4k 60 but not 4k60 hdr.

I bought a 75' slimrun (fiber optic). Same results. I talked to Monoprice and they said to try the cabernet. 

I bought a 40' Cabernet and it seemed to work. It does work for the most part but trying to watch coral reefs on amazon and it starts losing signal repeatedly. 

Even watching normal 1080p material (roku is still set to 4k60 hdr) it blanks out occaisionally. It makes me nervous and worried that something may be wrong with the projector. While trying to watch Pacific Rim, it went blank and never came back. It wouldn't even go into standby until I went and held down the power button on the back of the projector.


----------



## thatguy1985

Gowry said:


> This is frustrating. I'm on my 3rd cable from Monoprice.
> I'm using a Roku Ultra with a JVC RS400 and a Denon x4200w.
> 
> I started with a 50' Luxe cable which worked at 4k 60 but not 4k60 hdr.
> 
> I bought a 75' slimrun (fiber optic). Same results. I talked to Monoprice and they said to try the cabernet.
> 
> I bought a 40' Cabernet and it seemed to work. It does work for the most part but trying to watch coral reefs on amazon and it starts losing signal repeatedly.
> 
> Even watching normal 1080p material (roku is still set to 4k60 hdr) it blanks out occaisionally. It makes me nervous and worried that something may be wrong with the projector. While trying to watch Pacific Rim, it went blank and never came back. It wouldn't even go into standby until I went and held down the power button on the back of the projector.


On the same frustrating bandwagon. Have a JVC DLA-550/Pioneer SC-95 and had a working 4K/60 4:4:4 connection working for a couple days on PS4 Pro w/ a Monoprice Cabernet 25'. Went to turn on the PS4 today to watch NFL Direct Ticket and screen kept going black and not making the connection. Guess either my cable doesn't want to work today or it just bit the dust in regards to its 4k/60 4:4:4 capability. Strange.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^ Cabernet cables are active I believe, and it could be that the Redmere chipsets used are just not current enough to reliably handle 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz for 25'. Especially if it is not a straight cable run but has a few bends in it. That's one of the problem with the current active cables and extenders. Until the chipsets are available to all mfrs there may still be issues of reliability.


----------



## Fiend Busa

Ugh

Just spent $25 getting the 4k blackbird repeater, can't get it to work with my Onkyo S7800.

The blu-ray menu pops up and is working perfectly, but when I play a movie, once it loads...it goes to a black screen and my TV is telling me this source is set to sound receiver? I hear sound but no video...


----------



## Fiend Busa

How are people getting the blackbird extender to work?

Mine is conmected via:

Onkyo S7800 Main Output (HDCP 2.2) --> HDMI cable -> Blackbird input -> HDMI -> Blackbird output -> TV arc HDMI connection

My Samsung 4K Blu ray player I'll get an image on the menu but when I play a movie, no image only sound.

Works without the extender but not with it.


----------



## Desisuperman

without having to read through tons of pages here ...
Is there any hdmi cable that is confirmed to work [email protected] 4:4:4 at 25 ft length and/or 30 ft?


----------



## Desisuperman

Is passing the 4k test on the xbox one S a reliable method of testing if a cable is able to achieve [email protected]?


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Desisuperman said:


> without having to read through tons of pages here ...
> Is there any hdmi cable that is confirmed to work [email protected] 4:4:4 at 25 ft length and/or 30 ft?


Dave Vaughn has reported that the Blue Jeans 1E works at 30 feet but Joe or Otto wrote that copper HDMI cables are unreliable after more than 18 feet.


----------



## doctorwizz

Fiend Busa said:


> How are people getting the blackbird extender to work?
> 
> Mine is conmected via:
> 
> Onkyo S7800 Main Output (HDCP 2.2) --> HDMI cable -> Blackbird input -> HDMI -> Blackbird output -> TV arc HDMI connection
> 
> My Samsung 4K Blu ray player I'll get an image on the menu but when I play a movie, no image only sound.
> 
> Works without the extender but not with it.


What exact HDMI cables are you using with the BB?


----------



## zapete

That's it. I've officially lost all hope of ever viewing [email protected] with 444 using HDMI. I've tried 4 different brands and they all have their faults. These are the brands I've tried:

- Mediabridge
- Blue Jeans Cable
- KabelDirect
- Monoprice

All of the cables I've purchased are 10ft long. All suffer the same inconsistencies. My TV is a LG B6. Recently they've updated the firmware for the TV and that seemed to have rid me of flickering horizontal lines and "digital snow". However, that fix(?) brought another problem with it. Now the WHOLE screen flickers black for a second or two at random intervals. It gets excessive when scrolling through webpages.

GPU is powerful enough (GTX1070) to broadcast 4k content. At this point, it's time to call it quits and just accept the fact that HDMI is on its way out. I'll have to downscale to 2k now which is really frustrating.


----------



## Ratman

zapete said:


> ... it's time to call it quits and just accept the fact that HDMI is on its way out.


Um-m-m-m... I don't agree. But, I hope you're right. And then everyone can spend more money upgrading to/on a "new and better" technology!


----------



## zapete

It already exists (DisplayPort). I'm just baffled that some TV manufacturers did not account for people who use their TVs as monitors.


----------



## Ratman

Yeah, but... try to convince the manufacturers of Bluray players, AVR's, gaming systems, etc. to convert/comply. 
Great for PC folks though. Coulda, shoulda, woulda, for the AV world.


----------



## Desisuperman

So is this cable still the best bet for a 25ft run

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pro...categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024015&cpncd=


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> So is this cable still the best bet for a 25ft run
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pro...categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024015&cpncd=


You're posting the same question in multiple threads. Most of us read the same posts and will answer one, but not two.


----------



## Desisuperman

Different people are subscribed to both threads and I felt my question was relevant to both threads and it's own audience.

I'm trying to collect all the data I can before I make a final decision which is totally applicable in a case where people are getting different results with the same cables. 

There's also members who are very helpful but I have to question who's interest they're serving 

My apologies if you had to read my question twice 



Otto Pylot said:


> Desisuperman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So is this cable still the best bet for a 25ft run
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pro...categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024015&cpncd=
> 
> 
> 
> You're posting the same question in multiple threads. Most of us read the same posts and will answer one, but not two.
Click to expand...


----------



## doctorwizz

Desisuperman said:


> Different people are subscribed to both threads and I felt my question was relevant to both threads and it's own audience.
> 
> I'm trying to collect all the data I can before I make a final decision which is totally applicable in a case where people are getting different results with the same cables.
> 
> There's also members who are very helpful but I have to question who's interest they're serving
> 
> My apologies if you had to read my question twice


I would use a 15' and a 10' Monoprice certified HDMI cable with the Monoprice BlackBird HDMI 2.0 extender between them. It works.


----------



## Desisuperman

I wish I had that option. I'll have to move an entire in wall cabinet which I really want to avoid right now. Sigh..



doctorwizz said:


> Desisuperman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Different people are subscribed to both threads and I felt my question was relevant to both threads and it's own audience.
> 
> I'm trying to collect all the data I can before I make a final decision which is totally applicable in a case where people are getting different results with the same cables.
> 
> There's also members who are very helpful but I have to question who's interest they're serving
> 
> My apologies if you had to read my question twice
> 
> 
> 
> I would use a 15' and a 10' Monoprice certified HDMI cable with the Monoprice BlackBird HDMI 2.0 extender between them. It works.
Click to expand...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> Different people are subscribed to both threads and I felt my question was relevant to both threads and it's own audience.
> 
> I'm trying to collect all the data I can before I make a final decision which is totally applicable in a case where people are getting different results with the same cables.
> 
> There's also members who are very helpful but I have to question who's interest they're serving
> 
> My apologies if you had to read my question twice


We really are trying to help. It's just easier if we can keep it all in one post. It not only helps us and you, but others who may have the same question. I see that doctorwizz gave you some links but it sounds like you have a "construction" issue. Do you plan to lay your cable outside the wall or in-wall?


----------



## Desisuperman

Completely understandable. Will try to keep it up it all in one thread.

I do have an issue with the my cabinet requiring 25ft wiring. Only about 7-8 feet of it will be in wall and the rest will run to my cabinet in an unfinished furnace room. 

That monoprice cable I mentioned isn't cheap either. Its going to run me around 80-90 canadian for one 25ft cable. 

Moving the cabinet will ultimately solve everything and serve as a permanent long term solution. Damn it!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> Completely understandable. Will try to keep it up it all in one thread.
> 
> I do have an issue with the my cabinet requiring 25ft wiring. Only about 7-8 feet of it will be in wall and the rest will run to my cabinet in an unfinished furnace room.
> 
> That monoprice cable I mentioned isn't cheap either. Its going to run me around 80-90 canadian for one 25ft cable.
> 
> Moving the cabinet will ultimately solve everything and serve as a permanent long term solution. Damn it!


If you have to go in-wall for some of the run then I'd highly suggest you use a conduit. Cable technology is going to change as the video standards increase so if you have a conduit installed for some, or all of your run, it will be so much easier to replace/upgrade your cable as needed.


----------



## Desisuperman

100% I will.

What's the consensus with these hdmi cables from monoprice 

http://www.monoprice.com/mobile/product/details/12735



Otto Pylot said:


> Desisuperman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Completely understandable. Will try to keep it up it all in one thread.
> 
> I do have an issue with the my cabinet requiring 25ft wiring. Only about 7-8 feet of it will be in wall and the rest will run to my cabinet in an unfinished furnace room.
> 
> That monoprice cable I mentioned isn't cheap either. Its going to run me around 80-90 canadian for one 25ft cable.
> 
> Moving the cabinet will ultimately solve everything and serve as a permanent long term solution. Damn it!
> 
> 
> 
> If you have to go in-wall for some of the run then I'd highly suggest you use a conduit. Cable technology is going to change as the video standards increase so if you have a conduit installed for some, or all of your run, it will be so much easier to replace/upgrade your cable as needed.
Click to expand...


----------



## Desisuperman

Otto Pylot said:


> Some reported that they didn't work. His sales pitch was very good.


I called them and their customer service rep told me they will work as intended and that the reason for the initial failures was because of a "bad batch". 

make what you want out of that lol


So I have an opportunity to ship some cables to my family who's in the Arizona right now and can bring them back next week.

So the question is what do I take my chances on with a 25 ft cable. I've elminiated them down to these 3 options. The Blue Jeans ones are way to expensive so i'm not including that in my options


Sewell Silverback S6

https://sewelldirect.com/premium-4k-hdmi-cable-25-ft-


Monoprice Commerical Silver Series

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=3657


Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12735


Need to decide by this afternoon.

Thanks in advance for the input folks


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ bad batch my a$$. That's what a quality QA department is supposed to check for. 

The monoprice cable is an 22AWG cable, which is good but it is also not very flexible due to the thickness. You'll also increase the strain somewhat on the HDMI inputs. 10.2Gbps is pretty much a standard high speed hdmi cable so if you are looking to push 4k, 4:4:4 @ 60z, you'll more than likely have some issues. Silver plated copper conductors and gold plated connectors really don't mean much in terms of performance. What it has going for it the thicker wire. It's also a passive cable.

Cabernet cable are pretty good. Lots of people seem to have good luck with them. They are active cables which means they are uni-directional so pay attention to that when installing. They imply that they are rated for up to 18Gbps but the spec don't really say that they are certified at that bandwidth. Active cables are great for longer distances but are dependent on the version of the the Redmere chipset in the sink end (tv side). The current set of chips are just starting to appear so there is no telling what version of chipset is incorporated into the cable. The chipset is necessary to extend the signal path and maintain signal integrity with error correction and other factors. Like all electronic devices, the chipset may fail over time. The cables are thinner than the above Monoprice cable so you have more flexibility but that's not always a good thing, especially if you're trying to push the higher video standards.

The Sewell cable indicates it can handle bandwidth "up to 18Gbps", what ever "up to" means but there is nothing to indicate that they have been tested and certified to pass that at the length of cable you purchased. Wire gauge is 26AWG which is a thin wire. The rest of the given specs are nothing more than the HDMI 2.0 hardware specs which most high speed hdmi cables will pass (with the exception of 18Gbps). The rest is all marketing fluff.

So, if you want to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz, at 25' your choices are all trial and error. I'd eliminate the Monoprice cable and pick between the Cabernet (active) or the Sewell (passive). I think you're best bet would be the Cabernet cable but again that is by no means a guarantee. Your price point is a limiting factor in that you can't go to fiber, which, in the long term would probably be your best bet.

Whatever you do, place the cable on the floor before installation and thoroughly test it out before installing.. And when you do install, use a 1.5" to 2.0" conduit if this is an in-wall installation because one, that is really the only way to "future proof" your cable installation and two, you will be swapping out cables probably sooner than later and with the use of a conduit, that makes the whole process so much easier. You might also want to run a pull-string in the conduit as well for adding additional cables later if the need arises. Oh, and be mindful of bend radius because that can also affect signal propagation especially on the thinner cables.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ bad batch my a$$. That's what a quality QA department is supposed to check for.


----------



## Desisuperman

Thanks for the thorough summary on those above cables Otto. It was a helpful read

I like the lifetime warranty with the monoprice Cabarnet. will let you guys know what my results are once I get everything up and running


----------



## Otto Pylot

Monoprice has a good return policy so just read the terms and try the cable. You may get lucky. As I said, I think the Cabernet would be your best bet out of the three. Just pay attention to your installation and bend radius. You never did say if this was an in-wall installation or not. Or did I miss that?


----------



## Fiend Busa

doctorwizz said:


> What exact HDMI cables are you using with the BB?


20ft
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427

combined with a 6ft
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427


----------



## Fiend Busa

zapete said:


> That's it. I've officially lost all hope of ever viewing [email protected] with 444 using HDMI. I've tried 4 different brands and they all have their faults. These are the brands I've tried:
> 
> - Mediabridge
> - Blue Jeans Cable
> - KabelDirect
> - Monoprice
> 
> All of the cables I've purchased are 10ft long. All suffer the same inconsistencies. My TV is a LG B6. Recently they've updated the firmware for the TV and that seemed to have rid me of flickering horizontal lines and "digital snow". However, that fix(?) brought another problem with it. Now the WHOLE screen flickers black for a second or two at random intervals. It gets excessive when scrolling through webpages.
> 
> GPU is powerful enough (GTX1070) to broadcast 4k content. At this point, it's time to call it quits and just accept the fact that HDMI is on its way out. I'll have to downscale to 2k now which is really frustrating.


I have a ton of these at home:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427

20ft one works for me at for 4k @ 444 @ 60hz + HDR 

Had it for a few months now, works on PC/Ps4 Pro/Samsung 4k Blu-ray player, no issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Fiend Busa said:


> I have a ton of these at home:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427
> 
> 20ft one works for me at for 4k @ 444 @ 60hz + HDR
> 
> Had it for a few months now, works on PC/Ps4 Pro/Samsung 4k Blu-ray player, no issues.


15' - 20' seems to be the maximum distance for reliability. Glad your cable works.


----------



## zapete

Fiend Busa said:


> I have a ton of these at home:
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427
> 
> 20ft one works for me at for 4k @ 444 @ 60hz + HDR
> 
> Had it for a few months now, works on PC/Ps4 Pro/Samsung 4k Blu-ray player, no issues.


Maybe the fault lies in the TV's driver. Or maybe the problem is a refresh rate syncing issue with Nvidia GPUs. Or maybe I have a defective GPU, which I have no way of testing. Or maybe the GPU's HDMI input is faulty. Who knows. I'm done pondering over what's working properly and what is not. I've been tackling this absurdity for 3 months and I have not been able to identify the culprit. You win some, you lose some. At least in my case.


----------



## Fiend Busa

zapete said:


> Maybe the fault lies in the TV's driver. Or maybe the problem is a refresh rate syncing issue with Nvidia GPUs. Or maybe I have a defective GPU, which I have no way of testing. Or maybe the GPU's HDMI input is faulty. Who knows. I'm done pondering over what's working properly and what is not. I've been tackling this absurdity for 3 months and I have not been able to identify the culprit. You win some, you lose some. At least in my case.


Did you set the Power to Maximum and Disable V-Sync In Nvidia's Control Panel?


----------



## doctorwizz

Fiend Busa said:


> 20ft
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427
> 
> combined with a 6ft
> http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=15427


Strange it does not work with that setup. I have never tried the BB between the AVR and TV. Mine is between the PC and AVR. Maybe your BB is defective? Can you test it between two cables for a 4K input like a PC or UHD Bluray to AVR?


----------



## zapete

Fiend Busa said:


> Did you set the Power to Maximum and Disable V-Sync In Nvidia's Control Panel?


Yes. In fact, these were the beginning stages of troubleshooting my problem. Had no effect whatsoever. Since you brought it up, might as well do a clean installation of Nvidia drivers. Maybe the software side of things is to blame.

EDIT: Nope. Screen still blinks.

EDIT 2: Digital snow aka small flashing white dots are back. For reference:










Although it's back, it isn't as excessive as the GIF. The above was an example with a cable from Blue Jeans Cable or Mediabridge.


----------



## scarabaeus

So, interesting observation about my Monoprice Cabernet 50' cable. When I tested it with either my Denon 5200W AVR or a Roku Premiere+, I was not able to get any more than 300 MHz across. (2160p60 4:2:0 or 2160p24 4:2:2)

Now I tried the Oppo UDP-203. To my surprise, I can get a mostly clean 2160p60 4:2:2 (600 MHz) signal to my TV, with occasional HDCP snow frames.

I think the Oppo might deliver more current on the 5 Volt pin of the HDMI connector than the other two devices, and the Cabernet chips seem to make use of that extra oomph. Devices connected to an HDMI output are not supposed to draw more than 50 mA, but they can, at the danger of being "out of spec". This is obviously what's happening here.

Maybe feeding some separate 5 Volt into the source connector of the Cabernet will allow for 600 MHz (18 GBit) all the way, without drop-outs?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ or maybe the Oppo has a more current HDMI 2.0 chipset in it. It's really hard to tell. I would think that the 5v current is fairly standardized but without any direct measurements, it's all conjecture. That's one of the many issues with the distances greater than about 20', one doesn't know if the HDMI chipsets are all the same so maybe the newer ones (which is almost impossible to determine) do a better job at error correction, timing, etc than an older generation. The new gen HDMI 2.0a chipset are just coming to market in some devices and I would imagine that the chipsets in the active cables are one of the last devices to get them considering how many different kinds of active cables are all ready in the wild and in inventory.


----------



## Fiend Busa

zapete said:


> Yes. In fact, these were the beginning stages of troubleshooting my problem. Had no effect whatsoever. Since you brought it up, might as well do a clean installation of Nvidia drivers. Maybe the software side of things is to blame.
> 
> EDIT: Nope. Screen still blinks.
> 
> EDIT 2: Digital snow aka small flashing white dots are back. For reference:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although it's back, it isn't as excessive as the GIF. The above was an example with a cable from Blue Jeans Cable or Mediabridge.


Did you set the input on the TV to PC?


----------



## Fiend Busa

doctorwizz said:


> Strange it does not work with that setup. I have never tried the BB between the AVR and TV. Mine is between the PC and AVR. Maybe your BB is defective? Can you test it between two cables for a 4K input like a PC or UHD Bluray to AVR?


I'll try it out later today.

Thanks


----------



## zapete

Fiend Busa said:


> Did you set the input on the TV to PC?


Refer to an older post of mine:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...16-lg-oleds-g6-e6-c6-b6-242.html#post47040377

Everything you need to know. For now, I've plugged the cable in HDMI 3. For some odd reason, it is stable for now. Defective HDMI port(s)? Or wizardry from above?


----------



## netroamer

*Monoprice Cabernet Failure*

I have 2 35' Cabernet cables working in my system now. I just took delivery of a 30' Cabernet cable that failed the 18ghz sweep test and indeed will not pass video to the sink, a Lumagen Pro.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> I have 2 35' Cabernet cables working in my system now. I just took delivery of a 30' Cabernet cable that failed the 18ghz sweep test and indeed will not pass video to the sink, a Lumagen Pro.



And that's what we've been saying all along... anything above 20' or so is difficult to rely on for just about any given mfr. Some work, some don't. You don't know if each and every cable is tested or they are batch tested. You don't know if they all have the same version of HDMI 2.0(a) chipsets in them or not (for active cables). It's still a crapshoot unless one goes with fiber.


----------



## netroamer

Otto Pylot said:


> And that's what we've been saying all along... anything above 20' or so is difficult to rely on for just about any given mfr. Some work, some don't. You don't know if each and every cable is tested or they are batch tested. You don't know if they all have the same version of HDMI 2.0(a) chipsets in them or not (for active cables). It's still a crapshoot unless one goes with fiber.


I tested the Celerity fiber cable and it passed all tests, however when I hooked it up to my VW5000 from the Lumagen Pro or the Sammy 8500...nothing. I asked the local rep for another cable to test, but he never came through.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> I tested the Celerity fiber cable and it passed all tests, however when I hooked it up to my VW5000 from the Lumagen Pro or the Sammy 8500...nothing. I asked the local rep for another cable to test, but he never came through.


Again, there are no guarantees, even with fiber. But fiber appears to be the most reliable for most people at present. The issue is very confusing because there are so many variables at present. Length, wire gauge (for copper cables), setup, devices, HDMI chipset versions, etc. Even solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet cable) actively terminated with something like HDBT worked at almost any length for virtually everybody, until 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz entered the picture (no pun intended ), and even that won't reliably pass the higher video standards, yet. I think once the current HDMI 2.0a(b)/HDCP2.2 chipsets are widely available things may get a bit easier, but that's still a ways off. Then, HDMI 3.0 comes along and here we go again!


----------



## Joe Fernand

We have a few folk using the Celerity Tek cables with Lumagen VP's - all good so far.

Did you try HDMI 3 on the Samsung Display - you'll find a few threads about using that port in preference to 1, 2 or 4. 

Did you confirm that you had the latest Spec Celerity HDMI dongles - there are a few 'old' cables sitting on shelves.

Rep - Celerity don't seem to be geared up for a flood of Residential customers!

Joe

PS And as Otto says always test any cable you intend to install.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gogoevo

For what it's worth -

I just tried a 15ft and a 6ft Sewell (silverback) cables. I'm connecting an xb1s > Denon x3300 > Sony x940d. The xb1s will not pass any of the 4k UHD tests. Of course the xb1s will pass all tests while connected directly to the x940d. Disabled or turned off video conversion and i/p scaler, et al. Moving on to the Monoprice cables.


----------



## curlyjive

Looking for a 40ft cable to connect a UHD player directly to a JVC rs4910. I currently have a monoprice cabernet cable that would probably work for what I need, but it is running through a matrix switch and the switch probably can't pass 10gbps. 

Since the 4910 can only accept 10gbps I don't really need 18gbps and at 40 feet that might be chasing after the impossible right now. I will be passing 4k24 SDR 4:2:2 at 12 bits. 

Should I just get another cabernet cable, or should I get the monoprice Luxe cable? Or something else. I like the flexibility of the cabernet. There might be some hope the Luxe is more future proof, but it is also stiffer I think.


----------



## RTO69

*Loooong-ish run....*



I have 30 feet.... Want to run 4:4:4 UHD from Oppo 203 to Sony 930D. Thoughts on 15 or 20 foot Monoprice Cert cable, Blackbird repeater, 15 foot Monorpice Cert cable.

Running cable over in ceiling for 20 feet, down in wall 6 feet. Can "rounding" off this turn easily. I have to turn cable fairly sharp to plug in back of TV. Back of Oppo 203/AVR hook up can be straight.

Second part, would like to run this set up with ARC from TV to receiver. With the repeater connection cause this to not work... Basically, does the repeater create an active 1 way flow of data on the cable, limiting/blocking ARC from TV to AVR

Would like thought on if this set up will give me the top end 4k I am looking for?


----------



## Otto Pylot

If 30' is your total length your best bet would be to use a single cable. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is difficult enough to do at about 20' - 25' but introducing repeaters/extenders can cause signal problems. The bend radius is also critical. Using a thicker gauge cable can improve matters but then you lose flexibility and increase the strain on the HDMI input. Use a conduit because that is the only way you can "future proof" your cabling because you will be changing your cable as video standards become more demanding. Install a pull string as well for additional cable pulls. If you want to use a single cable in-wall for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz for 30', your options are very limited because there isn't any one cable that will work for all setups and devices. Most don't. You can try but don't be surprised if you have issues. A lot of folks are having good luck with fiber optic cables such as Celerity.

Instead of ARC, which has its own set of issues especially with CEC, you could run an optical cable from the tv to the receiver. The only advantage of ARC is the elimination of an optical cable. Both are limited to 5.1 audio (even though some ARC setups can handle Atmos).


----------



## evilflooz

*HDMI Cable Suggestions*

Hi all!

It seem from what I read, posts since 12/1, that most of you are looking for HDMI cabling options over 15'. I do not have that problem.

I am looking for a cable that can handle [email protected] 4:4:4 and deep color all under 15'. 10' even.

My set up is with a Marantz SR6011 receiver, Samsung KS8000 65", PS4 Pro and a DTV Model C61K 4k Genie.

Please help.

Thanks!


----------



## gogoevo

gogoevo said:


> For what it's worth -
> 
> I just tried a 15ft and a 6ft Sewell (silverback) cables. I'm connecting an xb1s > Denon x3300 > Sony x940d. The xb1s will not pass any of the 4k UHD tests. Of course the xb1s will pass all tests while connected directly to the x940d. Disabled or turned off video conversion and i/p scaler, et al. Moving on to the Monoprice cables.


Update -

After switching to the Monoprice cables (15' from x940d to a Denon x3300w, and a 6' to xb1s) everything appears to be working. I have only tested with one source thus far, but they are working. Also, I have at least (4) 90 degree bends in the chain.


----------



## tcramer

RTO69 said:


> I have 30 feet.... Want to run 4:4:4 UHD from Oppo 203 to Sony 930D. Thoughts on 15 or 20 foot Monoprice Cert cable, Blackbird repeater, 15 foot Monorpice Cert cable.
> 
> Running cable over in ceiling for 20 feet, down in wall 6 feet. Can "rounding" off this turn easily. I have to turn cable fairly sharp to plug in back of TV. Back of Oppo 203/AVR hook up can be straight.
> 
> Second part, would like to run this set up with ARC from TV to receiver. With the repeater connection cause this to not work... Basically, does the repeater create an active 1 way flow of data on the cable, limiting/blocking ARC from TV to AVR
> 
> Would like thought on if this set up will give me the top end 4k I am looking for?


For what it's worth, I'm running a 10' MP Premium Certified --> Blackbird --> 20' MP Premium Certified and I am able to pass 4K 60hz @ 4:4:4, granted it's only 8 bit. But still, it works whereas trying the exact same with MP 30' Cabernet and 30' MP Luxe, along with another one I don't recall failed. All of these are from an Oppo 203-->Denon X4300H-->JVC RS600 where I took extra care to keep a wide radius at all turns with all cables.

As Otto said, better chance with a single run and I may have just hit the jackpot with my combination, but I got them all when they were on sale for less than $40 total so it was a worthy experiment that has paid off for me so far.


----------



## RTO69

tcramer said:


> For what it's worth, I'm running a 10' MP Premium Certified --> Blackbird --> 20' MP Premium Certified and I am able to pass 4K 60hz @ 4:4:4, granted it's only 8 bit. But still, it works whereas trying the exact same with MP 30' Cabernet and 30' MP Luxe, along with another one I don't recall failed. All of these are from an Oppo 203-->Denon X4300H-->JVC RS600 where I took extra care to keep a wide radius at all turns with all cables.
> 
> As Otto said, better chance with a single run and I may have just hit the jackpot with my combination, but I got them all when they were on sale for less than $40 total so it was a worthy experiment that has paid off for me so far.


Thank you for the advise.... It sounds as if I have some options. I have cables on order and will test once they arrive.


----------



## doctorwizz

RTO69 said:


> Thank you for the advise.... It sounds as if I have some options. I have cables on order and will test once they arrive.


I say do the extender if you want a solution that works 100%. It does not cause ANY signal issues. I use a 20ft coiled KabelDirect Pro, and a 15ft KD Pro with the Blackbird from PC to AVR since Nov 9. It works for 4K/60, 444, Atmos, etc.


----------



## tevy

Otto Pylot said:


> Cool. Let us know how it works out.


Well, this appears work using Tera Grand Cables 3' > HDMI Wall Plate > 10'

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MDLLUMO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LBDJKZA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm not sure what the transfer rate is though. How do you guys find that out. So far I've only tested with Directv 4K


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ excellent!


----------



## Joey0480

Been reading through and some great information. I have the pioneer SC95 receiver, Samsung JS9000 TV, and running a samsung k8500 UHD player. Due to moving things around, I am going to need two cables around 12 - 15ft in length. With that said, I was looking at both the mediabridge and monoprice. Are both of these decent options? and preference on either? or something else?

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-...d=1482872517&sr=8-1&keywords=mediabridge+hdmi

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Ce...rice+hdmi+premium&refinements=p_85:2470955011

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Hi...qid=1482872553&sr=8-4&keywords=monoprice+hdmi


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joey0480 said:


> Been reading through and some great information. I have the pioneer SC95 receiver, Samsung JS9000 TV, and running a samsung k8500 UHD player. Due to moving things around, I am going to need two cables around 12 - 15ft in length. With that said, I was looking at both the mediabridge and monoprice. Are both of these decent options? and preference on either? or something else?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-...d=1482872517&sr=8-1&keywords=mediabridge+hdmi
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Ce...rice+hdmi+premium&refinements=p_85:2470955011
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Hi...qid=1482872553&sr=8-4&keywords=monoprice+hdmi


The first two cables are passive, the last one is active. There is nothing special about an active cable other than you can run it at lengths longer than the 25' max limit for certification. At your lenghts, I'd go for the Certified Monoprice cable. Only because at least you know it was certified by HDMI Licensing under their standardized certification program. There are no 100% guarantees for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz given the variation in setups, HDMI chipsets involved, etc so all you can do is try. I would lay whatever cables you get out on the floor first and test them before installation to make sure they are going to meet your needs and expectations. If your installation is going to be in-wall I would highly recommend using a conduit because you will be swapping out your cables as the video standards increase, probably sooner than later.


----------



## NorthSky

It's worth "repeating":

_• http://www.hdmi.org/installers/longcablelengths.aspx

"Active Cables & Boosters
Using active electronics to boost and clean up the signal can effectively double the range of a standard twisted-copper HDMI cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters are the norm for this type of solution, which may be deployed as either a standalone signal management device, i.e., a repeater or booster box, or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable itself. Boxes are available in many configurations, usually incorporating both booster and equalization functions, and may also serve as repeaters or switchers. Active cables, on the other hand, embed the signal-enhancement electronics in the cable itself, with chips embedded in the connector housings. They are unidirectional, using different modules at the transmit and receive ends of the cable. All the technologies in this category require external power.

Beware products that draw power from the +5V power line. Although these may work in certain applications, different components draw varying amount of power from that line to communicate with each other. A cable that draws power from the HDMI cable may fail when components and the active components in the cable or external booster are all drawing from the same source."

There are many other references. Here is from CEDIA that advises the custom install industry that has to deal with HDMI day in and day out:
• http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_/images/R...ion_BP_ENG.pdf

"ACTIVE CABLES AND HOW TO PULL HDMI CABLES
Using cables with active electronics can boost and
clean up the signal and almost double the range of a
copper twisted cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters
are typical for this type of solution, which can either
be implemented through an HDCP-compliant repeater
or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable
itself. Active cables embed signal-enhancement
electronics in the cable itself. High speed channels in
HDMI are unidirectional so care should be taken during
installation to ensure proper directionality because a
lossy signal will need boosting at the same end of the
cable. Most of the solutions in this category require
external power. In fact, HDMI Licensing recommends
active (powered) extenders/boosters and recommends
that they be powered by a separate power supply [2]."
_______

"Redmere technology is cool if you need a much thinner cable and can test it before deploying it. 
If it works, then great. Just know that you are cutting corners on the spec if it doesn't and you run into strange problems."_ - Amr


----------



## jugsta

Ok. I've got to get my PS4 Pro fully functional. As I've mentioned before, I have a Monoprice Luxe 50 feet active cable going from my Pioneer SC-97 to my OLED65C6P. I can't get 4K/60Hz/4:4:4. Therefore I can't maximize the potential of my PS4. 

From what I have read here, there is no sure-fire fix for this but... Is my best chance to purchase the Celerity fiber optical product? It is possible that I could shorten the run from 50 feet to 40 (I'll have to measure it before purchasing). I believe a shorter cable would also save me about 60 bucks (while possibly increasing my odds of success). I guess I'm just looking for a push to do this. Its unfortunate but I'd rather go ahead and get it out of the way. I also saw mention of a monoprice product that could be introduced in February. Should I put much stock in that? I can wait a month... But waiting indefinitely is not what I want to do. Thanks!


----------



## Gowry

Gowry said:


> This is frustrating. I'm on my 3rd cable from Monoprice.
> I'm using a Roku Ultra with a JVC RS400 and a Denon x4200w.
> 
> I started with a 50' Luxe cable which worked at 4k 60 but not 4k60 hdr.
> 
> I bought a 75' slimrun (fiber optic). Same results. I talked to Monoprice and they said to try the cabernet.
> 
> I bought a 40' Cabernet and it seemed to work. It does work for the most part but trying to watch coral reefs on amazon and it starts losing signal repeatedly.
> 
> Even watching normal 1080p material (roku is still set to 4k60 hdr) it blanks out occaisionally. It makes me nervous and worried that something may be wrong with the projector. While trying to watch Pacific Rim, it went blank and never came back. It wouldn't even go into standby until I went and held down the power button on the back of the projector.


Just a quick update.

The 40' Cabernet seems to be doing pretty well. I replaced a cable from my bluray player to the receiver with a monoprice cable and the dropouts are less frequent. It's strange that I could watch for 2 hours and then get a blank screen...then I have to wait for the JVC to re-acquire the signal (which it's slow at). It's reliable if not perfect.


----------



## Ratman

NorthSky said:


> It's worth "repeating":
> 
> _• http://www.hdmi.org/installers/longcablelengths.aspx
> 
> "Active Cables & Boosters
> Using active electronics to boost and clean up the signal can effectively double the range of a standard twisted-copper HDMI cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters are the norm for this type of solution, which may be deployed as either a standalone signal management device, i.e., a repeater or booster box, or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable itself. Boxes are available in many configurations, usually incorporating both booster and equalization functions, and may also serve as repeaters or switchers. Active cables, on the other hand, embed the signal-enhancement electronics in the cable itself, with chips embedded in the connector housings. They are unidirectional, using different modules at the transmit and receive ends of the cable. All the technologies in this category require external power.
> 
> Beware products that draw power from the +5V power line. Although these may work in certain applications, different components draw varying amount of power from that line to communicate with each other. A cable that draws power from the HDMI cable may fail when components and the active components in the cable or external booster are all drawing from the same source."
> 
> There are many other references. Here is from CEDIA that advises the custom install industry that has to deal with HDMI day in and day out:
> • http://www.cedia.co.uk/cda_/images/R...ion_BP_ENG.pdf
> 
> "ACTIVE CABLES AND HOW TO PULL HDMI CABLES
> Using cables with active electronics can boost and
> clean up the signal and almost double the range of a
> copper twisted cable. Cable runs of up to 30 meters
> are typical for this type of solution, which can either
> be implemented through an HDCP-compliant repeater
> or incorporated into the manufacture of the cable
> itself. Active cables embed signal-enhancement
> electronics in the cable itself. High speed channels in
> HDMI are unidirectional so care should be taken during
> installation to ensure proper directionality because a
> lossy signal will need boosting at the same end of the
> cable. Most of the solutions in this category require
> external power. In fact, HDMI Licensing recommends
> active (powered) extenders/boosters and recommends
> that they be powered by a separate power supply [2]."
> _______
> 
> "Redmere technology is cool if you need a much thinner cable and can test it before deploying it.
> If it works, then great. Just know that you are cutting corners on the spec if it doesn't and you run into strange problems."_ - Amr


Title of the thread:
"HDMI cables that support [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?"

Thanks to Amirm!


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ what did I miss


----------



## jugsta

I just went to My Cable Mart's website and discovered that they are prepping the launch of new, hybrid fiber optic cables that advertise 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 support. They are discounted somewhat compared to the CelerityTek cables (~30% off). They are currently unavailable but listed as "Coming Soon". I guess I'll wait around for those since they have a pretty fair return policy. I'll let you know when they notify me they are available.


----------



## chowyunfatt

Well finally got my blackbird repeater and tried [email protected] 5m Kabel Direkt HDMI leads and when playing PS4 HDR Uncharted 4 the picture went black as soon as the HDR kicked in. Xbox one S with Forza in HDR played fine.

Looks like I'll just run conduit for now as my room isn't ready yet and add the fibre optic cables later, these will only get cheaper and as linked above they will only cost about £120 at the moment.


----------



## chowyunfatt

chowyunfatt said:


> Well finally got my blackbird repeater and tried [email protected] 5m Kabel Direkt HDMI leads and when playing PS4 HDR Uncharted 4 the picture went black as soon as the HDR kicked in. Xbox one S with Forza in HDR played fine.
> 
> Looks like I'll just run conduit for now as my room isn't ready yet and add the fibre optic cables later, these will only get cheaper and as linked above they will only cost about £120 at the moment.


Forgot to add too that some people on here have said this combination works and looking at some comments on Amazon people have got 4k60 444 working at the same length. so it may also be due to manufacturing as well as the length, maybe some work but others don't of the same brand and type.


----------



## aaranddeeman

jugsta said:


> I just went to My Cable Mart's website and discovered that they are prepping the launch of new, hybrid fiber optic cables that advertise 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 support. They are discounted somewhat compared to the CelerityTek cables (~30% off). They are currently unavailable but listed as "Coming Soon". I guess I'll wait around for those since they have a pretty fair return policy. I'll let you know when they notify me they are available.


Monoprice slimrun is available for $129 (it's just that the minimum length is 75 feet).
I would prefer the Celerity style adapters as they can be replaced easily if goes bad. For the moulded cable, entire cable needs replacement.


----------



## BJBBJB

For those that are Widescreen Review subscribers there is a good article this month about 4K UHD specs, resolutions and speeds. No list of cable recommendations but a good read. Confirms a lot of what we are dealing with here.

My Blue Jeans Cable has been rock solid.

BJBBJB


----------



## 65Goat

BJBBJB said:


> For those that are Widescreen Review subscribers there is a good article this month about 4K UHD specs, resolutions and speeds. No list of cable recommendations but a good read. Confirms a lot of what we are dealing with here.
> 
> My Blue Jeans Cable has been rock solid.
> 
> BJBBJB


Link ??


----------



## scarabaeus

65Goat said:


> Link ??


You can't link to dead trees.


----------



## BJBBJB

65Goat said:


> Link ??


I believe you need to be a subscriber to get to the online articles in the current issue.

BJBBJB


----------



## BJBBJB

scarabaeus said:


> You can't link to dead trees.


Hmmmm,very educational trees though..... 😀


----------



## Aquarian09

Does SewellDirect Silverback S6 give 4K @60Hz 4:4:4 
They claim in their website that it will handle, but whats the fact ?


----------



## tcramer

Aquarian09 said:


> Does SewellDirect Silverback S6 give 4K @60Hz 4:4:4
> They claim in their website that it will handle, but whats the fact ?


I think just like others, it's going to be hit or miss. I tried a 30 footer and it couldn't pass anything above 4K 24hz but ymmv.

I now have gone to a 10' Monoprice certified cable --> Blackbird Repeater --> 20' MP certified and it has worked flawlessly.


----------



## Aquarian09

tcramer said:


> I think just like others, it's going to be hit or miss. I tried a 30 footer and it couldn't pass anything above 4K 24hz but ymmv.
> 
> I now have gone to a 10' Monoprice certified cable --> Blackbird Repeater --> 20' MP certified and it has worked flawlessly.


Thanks for the info, am going with Celerity Fiber HDMI. 
I think thats the only one which passed all tests on Long runs (above 30Ft).


----------



## MirceaForce

zapete said:


> Yes. In fact, these were the beginning stages of troubleshooting my problem. Had no effect whatsoever. Since you brought it up, might as well do a clean installation of Nvidia drivers. Maybe the software side of things is to blame.
> 
> EDIT: Nope. Screen still blinks.
> 
> EDIT 2: Digital snow aka small flashing white dots are back. For reference:
> 
> 
> 
> Although it's back, it isn't as excessive as the GIF. The above was an example with a cable from Blue Jeans Cable or Mediabridge.


same problem here on kabeldirekt pro 5m


----------



## jugsta

jugsta said:


> I just went to My Cable Mart's website and discovered that they are prepping the launch of new, hybrid fiber optic cables that advertise 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 support. They are discounted somewhat compared to the CelerityTek cables (~30% off). They are currently unavailable but listed as "Coming Soon". I guess I'll wait around for those since they have a pretty fair return policy. I'll let you know when they notify me they are available.


I just got my update notice. It looks like these will ship on 1/25. Head on over to their storefront and take a look. It looks like the the USB power on the display end is not removable. Its not that you'd want to, but it does make the cable look a little cheaper. But if you have to have this tech, saving 30% might be worth it.


----------



## rboster

It looks like the CelerityTek cables HDMI attachment/USB cable from the optic cable (as jugsta just pointed out) is permanently attached to the HDMI head? My reason for asking is the USB cable attached to the HDMI head is only 19 inches. I have a JVC projector which doesn't have a USB port, so I would have to run the USB cable back up to the attic and plug it into the electrical adapter and plug that into an existing outlet in the attic. I have the HDbaseT receiver in the attic with the USB type plug in....but that allows me to run a longer HDMI cable from the receiver through the ceiling into the back of the projector. (which that run is longer than 19 inches). 

One other option is adding an HDMI extension to the end of the celeritytrek hdmi head and run another cable to the projector....but I'm a littler afraid the signal might be compromised btw the HDMI extension plug and the "add-on" HDMI cable now running to the projector.

Ron


----------



## netroamer

netroamer said:


> I have 2 35' Cabernet cables working in my system now. I just took delivery of a 30' Cabernet cable that failed the 18ghz sweep test and indeed will not pass video to the sink, a Lumagen Pro.


*FOLLOW UP!
*
Monoprice sent a 30' replacement cable. Upon testing, this cable also failed the 18ghz interrogation. The raster on the test device was also flickering as if the cable was dropping frames. I made Monoprice aware of this and was told they would check their stock. This cable length was on sale for a while as I guess they were overstocked and were dumping. The tech at Monoprice stated this length cable should have the same chipset and firmware as the 35' cables I have been using for months. I am returning the 30' for refund. I may try the 25' as I'm sure I could manage with that length.


----------



## rscultho

zapete said:


> Yes. In fact, these were the beginning stages of troubleshooting my problem. Had no effect whatsoever. Since you brought it up, might as well do a clean installation of Nvidia drivers. Maybe the software side of things is to blame.
> 
> EDIT: Nope. Screen still blinks.
> 
> EDIT 2: Digital snow aka small flashing white dots are back. For reference:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although it's back, it isn't as excessive as the GIF. The above was an example with a cable from Blue Jeans Cable or Mediabridge.


I am using AudioQuest Pearl HDMI cables, and am using with my Oppo 203 which out puts 4:4:4, 10 bit deep color to my XBR75940C.

These cables are directional...


----------



## Minge

This whole cable situation has kept me from buying a new projector. I am not spending 5K on a new machine to be frustrated over a 30 foot run of HDMI cable that may or may not work. This is really sad consumers are faced with this potential problem. You would link the JVC's of the world would pressure to get standards in this regard so the cables are ahead of the projectors and not the other way around.


----------



## thetman

Minge said:


> This whole cable situation has kept me from buying a new projector. I am not spending 5K on a new machine to be frustrated over a 30 foot run of HDMI cable that may or may not work. This is really sad consumers are faced with this potential problem. You would link the JVC's of the world would pressure to get standards in this regard so the cables are ahead of the projectors and not the other way around.


I am in the same boat. my room is pretty much complete except for carpet install & running HDMI & subwoofer cables. I have not bought any equipment yet -mainly because of this whole 4K-HDMI fiasco. Not sure I want to get a projector now ( if I do it will be for 1080P only I guess) or just install a big TV for now and wait. I know a bit about this stuff but a lot is over my head and really don't understand the half of it when trying to achieve 4K UHD through projector. My HDMI run would be 35ft. so that leaves me out basically anyways. I have no clue which HDMI cable to get. so many names thrown around. Maybe wait a few years and then cables will be sorted out for long runs and players will drop in price even more. Also have room set up for 9.2.6. Again receivers aren't there yet. I could live with 7.2.4 for now. Bad time to have a movie room ready I guess- since so many new formats are coming into play and the hardware is simply not there yet 100%.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I agree with Ming's statement above.The connection technology is still way behind the video technology for those long runs (>20' or so), unless you want to go with a fiber optic cable, but then the cost may be prohibitive for some. Even that's not 100% guaranteed (close though).


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## Joe Fernand

'Long' HDMI cables (which worked) were pricey, with relatively few choices when HDMI first appeared.

John Dawson (Arcam) was the first person I saw showing off the new fangled 'future', - I when straight back to the office and phoned Molex (co developers of HDMI) 2m was all they could offer.

The Celerity Tek Detachable Fibre cables are not that much more costly than folk were paying for 'hose pipe' 15m HDMI cables back when it first launched - many of which are still working today!

CAT6 is the alternative and though HDBT (and other) 'over CAT' Extenders lack 4:4:4 at 2160p60 I do wonder if that is a 'real' issue for a lot of folk when you can achieve 4:2:0 at 2160p60 and at a later date update the Extender set (assuming you don't want to/can't run a Fibre HDMI cable). 

Joe




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## BrandonJF

tcramer said:


> I think just like others, it's going to be hit or miss. I tried a 30 footer and it couldn't pass anything above 4K 24hz but ymmv.
> 
> I now have gone to a 10' Monoprice certified cable --> Blackbird Repeater --> 20' MP certified and it has worked flawlessly.


I can get up to 4K60 4:2:0 with a 30' Monoprice Luxe cable. 4:4:4 isn't going to happen with it, though. Someone had mentioned that the PlugLug 25' cable on Amazon would work and that was my experience as well.... too bad I need to make it 30 feet. I thought getting a PlugLug 25' cable + Monoprice BlackBird Repeater + 6' cable would work, but nope. Like the last 2 Monoproce cables I bought, the Blackbird repeater did not work as advertised, either. It just can't make it that extra 6 ft. I did have intermittent luck by putting the repeater at the beginning of the chain (6' cable -> repeater -> 25' cable), but it worked about 1-2 times before I could never get it to work again. I could see it struggling with the handshake. Although, eventually it wouldn't even pass a 4K60 4:2:0 signal with the repeater in the chain (and it wouldn't work at all with an active HDMI cable anywhere in the chain). I would've tried another MP Blackbird repeater, but given that I'm 0/3 with Monoprice I gave up....


----------



## RTO69

BrandonJF said:


> I can get up to 4K60 4:2:0 with a 30' Monoprice Luxe cable. 4:4:4 isn't going to happen with it, though. Someone had mentioned that the PlugLug 25' cable on Amazon would work and that was my experience as well.... too bad I need to make it 30 feet. I thought getting a PlugLug 25' cable + Monoprice BlackBird Repeater + 6' cable would work, but nope. Like the last 2 Monoproce cables I bought, the Blackbird repeater did not work as advertised, either. It just can't make it that extra 6 ft. I did have intermittent luck by putting the repeater at the beginning of the chain (6' cable -> repeater -> 25' cable), but it worked about 1-2 times before I could never get it to work again. I could see it struggling with the handshake. Although, eventually it wouldn't even pass a 4K60 4:2:0 signal with the repeater in the chain (and it wouldn't work at all with an active HDMI cable anywhere in the chain). I would've tried another MP Blackbird repeater, but given that I'm 0/3 with Monoprice I gave up....


I have been running a 20' Mono Cert cable - Blackbird - 15' Mono cert cable for the past 2 weeks. I have been able to run 4K/4:4:4 at 60 without any challenges. I have waited to run this combo in the ceiling to make sure it continues to work. Do the work once as they say. I too tried the Luxe 30' and it worked for me for me about 3 times, then crapped out. Pretty much worthless in my application. Long runs suck for HDMI.. I just don't/haven't seen anything yet that will reliably go for 25 plus feet each and every time you turn it on. Tech needs to catch up with how people want to use it.. Good luck, and please post if you find a solution that works, you're not alone...


----------



## Q-the-STORM

Has been said before, the cables from KabelDirekt are fairly good... I've got a 12.5m (40ft) cable, I've been able to get 2160p60 4:4:4 without any issues... some people have reported that they send 1-2 back and repurchase until they get one that does 2160p60 4:4:4, but the first one I got works...

if only my damn Pioneer SC-LX89 would not downsample 4:4:4 at 2160p60, I'd be fine...


----------



## BrandonJF

RTO69 said:


> I have been running a 20' Mono Cert cable - Blackbird - 15' Mono cert cable for the past 2 weeks. I have been able to run 4K/4:4:4 at 60 without any challenges. I have waited to run this combo in the ceiling to make sure it continues to work. Do the work once as they say. I too tried the Luxe 30' and it worked for me for me about 3 times, then crapped out. Pretty much worthless in my application. Long runs suck for HDMI.. I just don't/haven't seen anything yet that will reliably go for 25 plus feet each and every time you turn it on. Tech needs to catch up with how people want to use it.. Good luck, and please post if you find a solution that works, you're not alone...


I would love to give that config a shot.... I might have to give Monoprice another chance, but it's just so hard given all the issues I've had. It does _seem_ like the Blackbird I have actually does not work with 4K60 4:4:4, but who knows if it actually isn't working or if it's the 25ft cable length? Maybe I'll order the 20' and 10' Mono cert cable and give the Blackbird another shot before sending it back.


----------



## gadgtfreek

SIAP, but I was told when looking for certified slim cables about these guys:

http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/hdmi-cables-c-395_114/premium-certified-ultra-slim-c-395_114_408/

I have some on order because I miss using my Monoprice redmere that caused issues with my UHD setup and I went back to the larger Blue Jean Cable stuff I already had. I have some tight bends so I really prefer slim cables. You can't order directly from them, but I sent them an email and a dealer contacted me in 1-2 hours. Pricing is not bad IMO.


----------



## martinm0

I've been eagerly following the thread to see what cables were working for folks at lengths over 30' as I've been struggling to get a true 4:4:4 4k60 passed from my PC to my two Samsung 4k TVs via my Denon AVR-X4200W receiver.

Like most, I had no issue getting 4:2:0 4k60 passed with my existing cables (which were all pretty new), but the full 4:4:4 was just not happening over anything more than 15'. Today I received a variety of cables and lengths to test out, along with a Monoprice Blackbird repeater. Here's what happened:

Tested new 30' Monoprice Cabernet active HDMI cable directly from PC to TV = working at full 4:4:4 4k60! Plugged the cabernet into HDMI out 1, plugged PC into Denon with Cable Matters slim 6' HDMI = max 4:2:0 (no 4:4:4). Proceeded to add a 6' HDMI before the 30' MP Cabernet and joined with BB repeater = no 4:4:4. So while the 30' would work directly from PC to TV, I cannot get it to play nice when mixed with the receiver.

I then tested two 15' KabelDirekt HDMI cables, connected with the MP Blackbird repeater and plugged into the HDMI 1 out on the receiver. This was a success, pushing the full 4:4:4 4k60 down the 30' cable to the TV (while also feeding the same signal from the receiver's HDMI 2 to my other TV/monitor down another 15' KabelDirekt HDMI). I did have to swap out the PC HMDI cable from the slim Cable Matters to a 6' KabelDirekt with this setup. While the older, Cable Matters cable does work for the second monitor, which is only on a 15' run, it would not work with the longer run.

My take is that there is a pretty hard stop at 15 feet for full 4:4:4, or at least has been my experience. I know others are reporting success on longer runs, but all my testing seems to hit the wall if I go over 15' (and that includes Source to Receiver cable lengths included in the overall calculation), where things start to get really finicky. 

Hopefully the 15'->BB repeater->15' setup will continue to work (will test for a week or two before I go pulling cables again), but that seems to be the only way I can get things working properly.

A question for the group: what source material actually plays at 4:4:4? My research seems to indicate that Blu-ray and UHD BD only do 4:2:0, and while my PC's GPU does full 4:4:4, it appears that consumer grade GPUs are limited to only 8bpc (I hear the Titan does 10bpc+, but not my GTX1080), so I don't know of a way to test full 4:4:4 10bpc with any gear. Likewise, the Xbox One S does only 4:2:0 and 10bpc (which was interesting since I was getting partial success with the Xbox One S when testing 4k, but that seems to be due to it not being 4:4:4. I see mention about the Opposite UHD-203 doing 4:4:4, but for what purpose (since UHD is only 4:2:0)?? Am I missing something? Are we all chasing a resolution that, frankly, just doesn't exist in source material?


----------



## martinm0

Ok, spoke a little too soon. I tried playing a UHD movie through the Xbox One S and the 15'->Blackbird repeater->15' will not provide an image (and it also causes my second 4k monitor with only a 15' cable to black out as well). 

Sigh.


----------



## popyang45

wildonrio said:


> I have a 4K LG TV. It came with a 10ft HDMI a cable that supports [email protected]z in 4:4:4 chroma and in Deep Color (are those the same?).
> 
> Now I need an HDMI cable with the same specs but at 15ft instead. I am failing. I'm on my 8th cable now and nothing works. The descriptions of these cables are all deceptive.
> 
> Does anyone have a 15ft+ cable that they use that supports these features?


with hdmi 2.0 you can work With a maximum cable length of 2 meters!
according to experts and AMD ( video card )

i have OLED deep coler not work good with oled tv 4:4:4 8 bit 
might phosphorescent color without depth and without details, it is a problem in OLED
all receivers can transmit HDMI 2.0 standard 24BIT in 4: 4: 4


----------



## rscultho

You all should look at the various cables offered through AudioQuest...

http://www.audioquest.com/hdmi/vodka

There's a description of each type of cable and it's construction and how the various types of loss and interference affect the signal.

They are pricey, but they are quality cables. For longer lengths, they are good cables.


----------



## Q-the-STORM

rscultho said:


> You all should look at the various cables offered through AudioQuest...
> 
> http://www.audioquest.com/hdmi/vodka
> 
> There's a description of each type of cable and it's construction and how the various types of loss and interference affect the signal.
> 
> They are pricey, but they are quality cables. For longer lengths, they are good cables.





> ETHERNET AND AUDIO RETURN CHANNEL ENABLED: All AudioQuest HDMI cables up to 10 meters are rated High Speed with Ethernet. From 12 meters to 20 meters AudioQuest HDMI cables are Standard Speed with Ethernet.


So for $2,000 I can get a AudioQuest Coffee 12m, for $440 AudioQuest Cinnamon 12m, $330 AudioQuest Forest 12m, $2,400 AudioQuest Vodka 12m, $10,200 AudioQuest Diamond 12m...
since they are 12 meters they will only be tested for Standard Speed with Ethernet which is 4.92Gbps, so I have no assurance that it will run 2160p60 4:4:4, I don't even get that assurance with shorter cables, since they only test them for high speed which is 10.2Gbps... they don't even test 18gbps


I bought a 12.5m KabelDirekt Top series for $21... they also don't check every cable for 18gbps, if the cable doesn't support 18gbps, I can simply return it and get another one....
the first one I got can do 2160p60 4:4:4... so I saved between 310 and 10,180 Dollars...

Companies like AudioQuest are horrible....

Please never ever buy from companies like that..


----------



## Otto Pylot

rscultho said:


> You all should look at the various cables offered through AudioQuest...
> 
> http://www.audioquest.com/hdmi/vodka
> 
> There's a description of each type of cable and it's construction and how the various types of loss and interference affect the signal.
> 
> They are pricey, but they are quality cables. For longer lengths, they are good cables.


AudioQuest are like Monster. The cost is not justifiable. HDMI cables with ethernet means absolutely nothing because there aren't any consumer devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel. It's all marketing b.s. You can get just as good cables for a lot less money.


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## rscultho

Otto Pylot said:


> AudioQuest are like Monster. The cost is not justifiable. HDMI cables with ethernet means absolutely nothing because there aren't any consumer devices that take advantage of the ethernet channel. It's all marketing b.s. You can get just as good cables for a lot less money.


I have AudioQuest Pearl cables and they eliminated my handshaking issues between my Oppo 203 and my SC-95. Granted they are pricey cables and aren't for everyone, for various reasons. 

They are quality cables, at least from my perspective as I have used them. I've had a really hard time finding quality cables that don't create handshaking issues or picture quality degradation.

I have also recently (yesterday, in fact) tried the Amazon basics 15 foot cables. They seem to work as well, and did not create handshaking issues.


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## Otto Pylot

rscultho said:


> I have also recently (yesterday, in fact) tried the Amazon basics 15 foot cables. They seem to work as well, and did not create handshaking issues.


And that's the point. You don't need to pay for over-exaggerated claims, marketing b.s. and high prices to get cables that meet your needs. You may have to go thru a couple of cables to find one that works but there are folks who have gone thru lots of AudioQuest/Monster cables as well.


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## rscultho

Otto Pylot said:


> And that's the point. You don't need to pay for over-exaggerated claims, marketing b.s. and high prices to get cables that meet your needs. You may have to go thru a couple of cables to find one that works but there are folks who have gone thru lots of AudioQuest/Monster cables as well.


I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.

It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me. 

Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.


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## HoustonRider

Ive heard this before with audio/video cables. 

I had BlueJeans make me some HDMI and some XLRs and had grounding/jitter issues on both sides. Drank the KoolAid and bought AQ Carbon HDMIs and MacKinzie XLRs and all was gone instantly. 

I don't think a single $2500 HDMI or XLR cable is worth it (only place Ive seen em is Magnoila where they get em for free or employees get em for 80% off or whatever), but the AQ solved my problem AFTER I spent $500 on BJC speaker, XLR and HDMI


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## aaranddeeman

rscultho said:


> I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.
> 
> It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me.
> 
> Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.


This proves why "marketing" still survives.


----------



## Desisuperman

I still haven't forgot about this thread. Just haven't had a chance to test my cables. Will try to test them tonight with my XB1S , Samsung KS9000. 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105


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## gadgtfreek

Got these in pretty quickly, they are similar in size to the redmeres I used to have that did not work well when I went UHD. They are $20 range, not $5 range, but they accomplish what I wanted.


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## Desisuperman

Ok here it goes...


The following components are part of my setup

Samsung TV UN65KS9000 (Using HDMI Port 2)
Denon AVRX-3000 Receiver
XB1S

(2) Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI® Cable, 25ft
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...utm_medium=11051853&utm_term=VigLink2-2917105

The HDMI is connected directly to the TV and audio is output from the TV to the receiver via toslink optical.

So I tried two of the exact same cables and got "different" results. In both tests I used the XB1S 4K tests

The first 3 pictures are the results from Cable 1 and the last 3 are results from Cable 2. They both produced "different" results. Using Cable 1 I was unable to select 8 bit & 12 bit. The cable will only produce a picture if 10 bit was selected. 

With Cable 2 I was able to select 8 bit, 10 & 12 with no issue.

So of course I'm going to ask the obvious questions...

1. Is Cable 1 defective?
2. If my TV is only 10-bit capable does it matter that I'm unable to select 8 bit and 12 using Cable 1? 
3. If my TV is limited to 10-bit why does XB1S allow me to select 12-bit. BTW the HDMI that comes with it allows me to do the same.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Desisuperman - I suspect part of your 'problem' is your choice of test hardware, I find the XB1S to be very unpredictable and nigh on useless as a tool to test devices connected to it.

Others here on AVS are seeing the same unpredictability as you until they adjust certain settings n the XB1S - do a search for XB1S and HDR.

Joe


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ac388

I think OPPO 203 will be a more proper tool for the test.


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## Postmoderndesign

gadgtfreek said:


> Got these in pretty quickly, they are similar in size to the redmeres I used to have that did not work well when I went UHD. They are $20 range, not $5 range, but they accomplish what I wanted.


These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/hdmi-cables-c-395_114/premium-certified-ultra-slim-c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.

I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Ultra-Hand-Tested-Supports-91-02X-10B/dp/B0019HL8Q8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484282450&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Mediabridge+Ultra+Series+HDMI+Cable+%2810+Feet%29+-+High-Speed+Supports+4K%2C+Ethernet%2C+3D+and+Audio+Return+%5BNewest+Standard%5D+-+%28Part%23+MPC-HDMI34-10+%29


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## davisnub

anyone know if the roku ultra outputs it's main menu at 18gbps like the sammy uhd player does? If it does, my new Blue Jeans Cable at 35 feet is able to lock on.


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## davisnub

Postmoderndesign said:


> These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/hdmi-cables-c-395_114/premium-certified-ultra-slim-c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.
> 
> I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
> One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Ultra-Hand-Tested-Supports-91-02X-10B/dp/B0019HL8Q8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484282450&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Mediabridge+Ultra+Series+HDMI+Cable+%2810+Feet%29+-+High-Speed+Supports+4K%2C+Ethernet%2C+3D+and+Audio+Return+%5BNewest+Standard%5D+-+%28Part%23+MPC-HDMI34-10+%29


have you guys tried the monoprice hdmi cords that are certified up to 20 feet? I've had no issues with anything less than 10 feet in my current experience and there's a sale going on them right now.


----------



## gadgtfreek

Postmoderndesign said:


> These cables seem to be http://www.scpcat5e.com/hdmi-c-395/hdmi-cables-c-395_114/premium-certified-ultra-slim-c-395_114_408/ which may be these Mediabridge FLEX Series HDMI Cable (10 Feet) - High-Speed Supports 4K, Ethernet, 3D and Audio Return [Newest Standard] - (Part# MPC-HDMI34-10 ) It is being reported in the Oppo UHD-203 thread that they are working at [email protected] 4:4:4 2160p, Full 18Gbps performance.
> 
> I would still wait until Dave Vaughn Sound and Vision checks them.
> One poster suggested that the Mediabridge Ultra series my be more reliable. https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-Ultra-Hand-Tested-Supports-91-02X-10B/dp/B0019HL8Q8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1484282450&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Mediabridge+Ultra+Series+HDMI+Cable+%2810+Feet%29+-+High-Speed+Supports+4K%2C+Ethernet%2C+3D+and+Audio+Return+%5BNewest+Standard%5D+-+%28Part%23+MPC-HDMI34-10+%29



Im the one that posted the info in the other thread.



These SCP have nothing to do with Mediabridge
The SCp also have the "locking ends" for snug fit
The Mediabridge do NOT have the premium certification, the SCP do.

I do not need Dave Vaughn to test them, that is what the premium certification program is for. And yes, they work with Ultra HD Blu-ray on the 203 and my Roku Ultra, going thru a Marantz 7702II to a LG OLED.


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## gadgtfreek

davisnub said:


> have you guys tried the monoprice hdmi cords that are certified up to 20 feet? I've had no issues with anything less than 10 feet in my current experience and there's a sale going on them right now.


I have them (the premium certified model) and they work fine, just too stiff for what I was doing.


----------



## Desisuperman

Any suggestions on reliable testing methods?



Joe Fernand said:


> Desisuperman - I suspect part of your 'problem' is your choice of test hardware, I find the XB1S to be very unpredictable and nigh on useless as a tool to test devices connected to it.
> 
> Others here on AVS are seeing the same unpredictability as you until they adjust certain settings n the XB1S - do a search for XB1S and HDR.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Postmoderndesign

gadgtfreek said:


> Im the one that posted the info in the other thread.
> 
> 
> 
> These SCP have nothing to do with Mediabridge
> The SCp also have the "locking ends" for snug fit
> The Mediabridge do NOT have the premium certification, the SCP do.
> 
> I do not need Dave Vaughn to test them, that is what the premium certification program is for. And yes, they work with Ultra HD Blu-ray on the 203 and my Roku Ultra, going thru a Marantz 7702II to a LG OLED.


I agree and that is why I put a caution at the end of my post on the Mediabridge cables.

I was using the internet to try to find a readily available source for the SCP cables. I could not establish that the Mediabridge cables have tight fit ends. A lighter long more flexible HDMI copper cable that works at 18 gbs would be great. But the Mediabridge cables may not be the cables.


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## Otto Pylot

gadgtfreek said:


> I have them (the premium certified model) and they work fine, just too stiff for what I was doing.


Part of the reason that these cables can be certified by HDMI Licensing (ATC, Premium High Speed HDMI) is the wire gauge, which can be a drawback depending on how tight your setup is. That's why some cable mfrs' are adding the locking connectors, which I don't think is a bad idea for any cable. 25' was the maximum certifiable distance by ATC's for HDMI 1.4 and it appears, at least so far, that 25' will be the distance for the newer video standards, unless one wants to go fiber. Keep in mind that there are other certification programs available so the certification process is far from standardized. That's the idea of the ATC's, but not all cable mfrs have bought into the HDMI Licensing program, so one needs to be careful when purchasing a cable that is "certified". Unfortunately, even certification by an ATC is not 100% guaranteed to work for everyone because of hardware, setup, and distances.


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## gadgtfreek

Agree, but since I have focused on the that label in my post, I have not had any issues at less than 10 feet (all I need). I like the SCP cables because they are thin, flexible, passive, and "lock" in.


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## Otto Pylot

gadgtfreek said:


> Agree, but since I have focused on the that label in my post, I have not had any issues at less than 10 feet (all I need). I like the SCP cables because they are thin, flexible, passive, and "lock" in.


That's good. But most of the issues have been at lengths much longer than 10'. I too use only ATC certified cables, and have so since HDMI 1.4, so I feel very comfortable with them and they have always performed well (my runs are 10' or under). However, I haven't made the jump to 4k yet (still a little too unsettled for me) but when I do, I will look for the ATC label. At 10', as you have seen, even passive cables work well. I do like the "lock" in feature that some mfrs are starting to use. Just makes sense to me.


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## SledgeHammer

rscultho said:


> I understand what you are saying, and your point of view. I don't think you understand mine, but that's ok.
> 
> It's your opinion that it's "marketing bs", and what is high priced to you may not be so to me.
> 
> Wish you (and everyone) much success with cables and setup/integration.


I'll agree that pricing is subjective, but sorry, most of the bullet points on cables are "marketing BS". All that marketing BS has been tested in labs over and over for like the past 50 yrs. Cables aren't rocket science. AudioQuest is one of the biggest BSers out there:

"Solid conductors eliminate strand-interaction distortion. Pearl’s solid Long-Grain Copper allows a smoother and clearer sound than cables using regular OFHC (Oxygen-Free High-Conductivity) copper. OFHC is a general metal industry specification regarding “loss” without any concern for distortion. LGC has fewer oxides within the conducting material, less impurities, less grain boundaries, and definitively better performance."

Complete and total nonsense and completely impossible. If your source device is sending 101101, the destination device will get 101101 in the digital realm or nothing at all. END OF STORY. The cable can't make the 1's or 0's any different.

Besides, in your own post, you say you also tried the cheap Amazon basics and they performed identical . That should tell you the AQ cables did nothing.

The only feature AQ does have that is legit is thier 100% all natural, omni-directional, wallet lightener.


----------



## RKofCAL

SledgeHammer said:


> I'll agree that pricing is subjective, but sorry, most of the bullet points on cables are "marketing BS". All that marketing BS has been tested in labs over and over for like the past 50 yrs. Cables aren't rocket science. AudioQuest is one of the biggest BSers out there:
> 
> "Solid conductors eliminate strand-interaction distortion. Pearl’s solid Long-Grain Copper allows a smoother and clearer sound than cables using regular OFHC (Oxygen-Free High-Conductivity) copper. OFHC is a general metal industry specification regarding “loss” without any concern for distortion. LGC has fewer oxides within the conducting material, less impurities, less grain boundaries, and definitively better performance."
> 
> Complete and total nonsense and completely impossible. If your source device is sending 101101, the destination device will get 101101 in the digital realm or nothing at all. END OF STORY. The cable can't make the 1's or 0's any different.
> 
> Besides, in your own post, you say you also tried the cheap Amazon basics and they performed identical . That should tell you the AQ cables did nothing.
> 
> The only feature AQ does have that is legit is thier 100% all natural, omni-directional, wallet lightener.


What you just described is generally not true. In the absence of a bit error rate, it is true. If there is a bit error rate present, which there is in all transmission line systems, and the error cannot be corrected with the parity bits, ecc bits, or what have you, then the device will not get 101101. It will get one, two, or often several bits interpreted as 1's that should be zeros and 0's that should be 1's. A good transmission line will reduce the bit error rate, a bad one will increase it. The receiving end typically will know if it received a word in error and will either play that word in error, interpolate, or mute the audio until the next error free word arrives. Or it may initiate a link reset especially if the error rate gets too high. Same goes for video. This is an oversimplified representation of basic digital transmission, and doesn't address whether the HMDI protocol has error correction that is so advanced that it will correct all bit error conditions that may be present if it can, and if not will reset/retrain the link (in which case if the link is up then any cable that does not experience resets will retain no errors in the corrected data bits received, at which point your argument would hold).


----------



## BrandonJF

martinm0 said:


> Ok, spoke a little too soon. I tried playing a UHD movie through the Xbox One S and the 15'->Blackbird repeater->15' will not provide an image (and it also causes my second 4k monitor with only a 15' cable to black out as well).
> 
> Sigh.


It's frustrating. I am thinking I got the best I was going to get on my second try with the Monoprice Luxe 30ft cable. It reliably passes up to 4K60 4:2:0. I am not even sure why I need anything better at this point - it's been more of a game to just try and get what these cables are supposed to carry across that length. But, I have no problem getting the most out of UHD with the Luxe cable and I don't know what I'd be missing on the gaming side - the PS4 Pro only can't pass 4K60 RGB through the 30ft Luxe. 4K60 YUV works fine with the auto color space/depth the Pro is putting out. And I have no problem using the 4K capabilities of the XBOX One.

The 25 ft PlugLug cable that was sold on Amazon could pass everything - too bad I needed 30ft (unless I draped the cable across my room instead of running it through the ceiling).

The Blackbird repeater was a bust for me with wildly varying results. The 10ft certified Monoprice cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified Monoprice cable combination didn't work. When I reversed it and went 20ft cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 10ft cable, it did actually work with the Oppo 203 sending 4K60 4:4:4 as long as I bypassed my receiver. Adding another 6ft of cable and going through the receiver kills it. Oddly enough, going 10ft certified cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified cable couldn't even compete with the 30ft Luxe - I couldn't get 4K60 4:2:0 to make it with that config. 

And I'm not sure whether the receiver (the Yamaha Aventage 3050) is knocking down the HDMI signal strength or if it's just that extra 6 ft between the Oppo 203/PS4 that is causing it to fail. I could've swore I did have it working once with the PlugLug cables and the Blackbird with the receiver in the mix - I was convinced enough to run it through the ceiling only to never get it to work again. 

Since I don't plan on hooking up a PC anyway, I'll probably just give up. Part of me wants to "win", but Monoprice has to be getting tired of all of these RMAs.... They recommended trying the Carbernet, but given everything I've read in this thread, this is all just luck of the draw at this point. I may just consider myself lucky that the Luxe is working as well as it is. Plus, I spent about 5-6 hours messing with this last weekend and I'm about over it.


----------



## Desisuperman

Yeah it is frustrating. Have you tried bypassing the receiver and going directly to the TV from source? I'm assuming you have I just don't want to read pages and pages of history. This is already taking up more time out of my personal life then it should lol



BrandonJF said:


> martinm0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, spoke a little too soon. I tried playing a UHD movie through the Xbox One S and the 15'->Blackbird repeater->15' will not provide an image (and it also causes my second 4k monitor with only a 15' cable to black out as well).
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> 
> 
> It's frustrating. I am thinking I got the best I was going to get on my second try with the Monoprice Luxe 30ft cable. It reliably passes up to 4K60 4:2:0. I am not even sure why I need anything better at this point - it's been more of a game to just try and get what these cables are supposed to carry across that length. But, I have no problem getting the most out of UHD with the Luxe cable and I don't know what I'd be missing on the gaming side - the PS4 Pro only can't pass 4K60 RGB through the 30ft Luxe. 4K60 YUV works fine with the auto color space/depth the Pro is putting out. And I have no problem using the 4K capabilities of the XBOX One.
> 
> The 25 ft PlugLug cable that was sold on Amazon could pass everything - too bad I needed 30ft (unless I draped the cable across my room instead of running it through the ceiling).
> 
> The Blackbird repeater was a bust for me with wildly varying results. The 10ft certified Monoprice cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified Monoprice cable combination didn't work. When I reversed it and went 20ft cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 10ft cable, it did actually work with the Oppo 203 sending 4K60 4:4:4 as long as I bypassed my receiver. Adding another 6ft of cable and going through the receiver kills it. Oddly enough, going 10ft certified cable -> Blackbird repeater -> 20ft certified cable couldn't even compete with the 30ft Luxe - I couldn't get 4K60 4:2:0 to make it with that config.
> 
> And I'm not sure whether the receiver (the Yamaha Aventage 3050) is knocking down the HDMI signal strength or if it's just that extra 6 ft between the Oppo 203/PS4 that is causing it to fail. I could've swore I did have it working once with the PlugLug cables and the Blackbird with the receiver in the mix - I was convinced enough to run it through the ceiling only to never get it to work again.
> 
> Since I don't plan on hooking up a PC anyway, I'll probably just give up. Part of me wants to "win", but Monoprice has to be getting tired of all of these RMAs.... They recommended trying the Carbernet, but given everything I've read in this thread, this is all just luck of the draw at this point. I may just consider myself lucky that the Luxe is working as well as it is. Plus, I spent about 5-6 hours messing with this last weekend and I'm about over it.
Click to expand...


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## Otto Pylot

What about trying a fiber optic cable (Celerity)?


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## BrandonJF

Desisuperman said:


> Yeah it is frustrating. Have you tried bypassing the receiver and going directly to the TV from source? I'm assuming you have I just don't want to read pages and pages of history. This is already taking up more time out of my personal life then it should lol


I did. It would work sometimes with the two-shorter-cables-bridged-by-a-repeater combo. Anything beyond 4K60 4:2:0 would never work with just the single 30ft Luxe Monoprice cable whether I plug it directly into the source or go through the receiver. When trying to use the repeater between two cables, the longer cable had to be the "input" cable. I got terrible results if I fed it the shorter of the two cables first. Maybe 15' -> repeater -> 15' would've worked? I'll never know.


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## kaotikr1

I posted a couple celerity cables for sale in the classifieds under accessories if anyone is looking for one. 40 and 60'. I personally use a 40' one and it's been solid.


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## louisaudio

Otto Pylot said:


> What about trying a fiber optic cable (Celerity)?


We are using a Quantum Data 780E fro testing purposes. We are in the process of testing multiple cables that people claim works, and we have found otherwise. The Celerity 60 footer has some quirky communications while testing. We have not given it the actual video test yet, but as a simple loop-thru, we are seeing inconsistent results. Also, 100% of the time, the CEC has failed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

louisaudio said:


> We are using a Quantum Data 780E fro testing purposes. We are in the process of testing multiple cables that people claim works, and we have found otherwise. The Celerity 60 footer has some quirky communications while testing. We have not given it the actual video test yet, but as a simple loop-thru, we are seeing inconsistent results. Also, 100% of the time, the CEC has failed.


Ah. Good to know. Maybe 60' is even too long for fiber.


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## louisaudio

I don't think it's a fiber related issue. Somewhere, the fiber still needs to be converted back to copper for the HDMi connection. I'm not sold on the endpoints. The fiber is only as good as the endpoints. I have a video showing the test. I will post a link later.


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## Ted99

In the Oppo 203 owner's thread (post #7523) @Bob Pariseau explained why HDMI cables that are TOO SHORT can cause dropout problems. As we all have learned, our devices have different gains for HDMI in and out ports. This lack of standardization means that a nominal length of 2m. or about 6 feet was settled on as a median point for attenuation estimates. Cables shorter than that could overload a device's HDMI in port. I have been using a 1.5' BJC Series 1 HDMI cable from the Blu Ray player to the Marantz 7702 MkII. I did this for two reasons: 1) Habit from the analog dictum that shorter is better and 2) minimizing cable clutter in the rack. I have been getting an occasional mysterious audio and visual dropout for about 5 sec in ordinary Blu ray playback and I wonder if this was the source. I'm going to deal with this problem by using 5' 18Gbps cables tie-wrapped in a small circle when I have only a short run in the rack. I'm assuming that the extra attenuation from the 6" radius "bend" will approximate the attenuation of a 2m cable and also serve to reduce dangling cables.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ where did you get certified 18Gbps cables and why do you need 18Gbps? Tie-wrapping 5' cables will put extra weight strain on the HDMI inputs. I've used ATC certified 10' or less High Speed HDMI cables for years with blu-ray and other devices without any issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

louisaudio said:


> I don't think it's a fiber related issue. Somewhere, the fiber still needs to be converted back to copper for the HDMi connection. I'm not sold on the endpoints. The fiber is only as good as the endpoints. I have a video showing the test. I will post a link later.


You may have a point on the connectors but what can you do? This whole connection technology is really becoming a mess.


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## louisaudio

I will be doing more testing tomorrow on this piece. I have a couple of calls into Quantum Data regarding what we are seeing and why.


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## jugsta

Disappointed to report that I am having an issue with a 50 foot Celerity cable. Unfortunately I am experiencing white specs on all of my sources. The effect (if you want to call it that) almost looks like glitter or a shimmering. It is pretty difficult to detect (only apparent on dark/solid screens, specifically black). Regardless, its not something I want to keep. 

I haven't yet done the troubleshooting to try and correct it (plug in source side USB power, turn off video conversion on the AVR) as I worked all weekend trying to get some overheard speakers installed. I'm starting to think the Pioneer receiver is, at least, contributing to the problem. It wouldn't surprise me at it has quite a few other little issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> Disappointed to report that I am having an issue with a 50 foot Celerity cable. Unfortunately I am experiencing white specs on all of my sources. The effect (if you want to call it that) almost looks like glitter or a shimmering. It is pretty difficult to detect (only apparent on dark/solid screens, specifically black). Regardless, its not something I want to keep.
> 
> I haven't yet done the troubleshooting to try and correct it (plug in source side USB power, turn off video conversion on the AVR) as I worked all weekend trying to get some overheard speakers installed. I'm starting to think the Pioneer receiver is, at least, contributing to the problem. It wouldn't surprise me at it has quite a few other little issues.


That's what we call sparkles and it is indicative of poor signal quality. I'm disappointed to see another post about the Celerity cable failing but it seems that they too appear to have a distance limitation as well, even though they generally seem to perform better than copper-based wire.


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## dholmes54

So its true you shouldn't use a HDMI cable less than 6 ft, you would think as long as HDMI has been out drop out problems shouldn't be a problem with a descent price cable!!


----------



## Ted99

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ where did you get certified 18Gbps cables and why do you need 18Gbps? Tie-wrapping 5' cables will put extra weight strain on the HDMI inputs. I've used ATC certified 10' or less High Speed HDMI cables for years with blu-ray and other devices without any issues.


I have BJC series FE, BJC Series 1, Oppo 203-supplied and Monoprice. They are 18 Gpbs capable in certain lengths, as well as many others are now available. A looped and tie-wrapped 5' cable doesn't put any greater strain on a connector than a 5' dangling-in-a-loop cable as the weight is the same. A shorter cable is lighter, but for the reasons described, HDMI cables shorter than 6' CAN cause problems. The current UHD standard of 4:2:0, 30 Hz, 10-bit can pass through most 10' or less ATC certified High speed cables. An example is the Samsung 4K UHD Blu ray player. It's menu screen is 4:4:4 60K 12-bit, but the movie is 4:2:0 24 Hz, 10-bit and the older Hi-speed HDMI cables can pass the movie, but not the menu screen. If you are sending 4:4:4, 60Hz, 12-bit info one will need a cable rated to pass 18 Gpbs. The JVC 4K PJ, and UHD Blu ray player threads are replete with reports of the failure of the older HDMI cables to pass signals and the need to upgrade to HDMI Institute-certified UHD cables.


----------



## jugsta

jugsta said:


> Disappointed to report that I am having an issue with a 50 foot Celerity cable. Unfortunately I am experiencing white specs on all of my sources. The effect (if you want to call it that) almost looks like glitter or a shimmering. It is pretty difficult to detect (only apparent on dark/solid screens, specifically black). Regardless, its not something I want to keep.
> 
> I haven't yet done the troubleshooting to try and correct it (plug in source side USB power, turn off video conversion on the AVR) as I worked all weekend trying to get some overheard speakers installed. I'm starting to think the Pioneer receiver is, at least, contributing to the problem. It wouldn't surprise me at it has quite a few other little issues.





Otto Pylot said:


> That's what we call sparkles and it is indicative of poor signal quality. I'm disappointed to see another post about the Celerity cable failing but it seems that they too appear to have a distance limitation as well, even though they generally seem to perform better than copper-based wire.


I hooked up the power on the transmit end which seems to have improved things quite a bit. I believe the only time I'm seeing them now is when I'm transitioning back and forth between the media (BD and Videogames) and PS4 Pro interface. I've had a brief cut-out and a few sparkles when doing that but, overall- a large improvement. I guess this will have to do until something better comes along. This seems to suggest that the HDMI out on the Pioneer is probably contributing to the problem. I already suspected that because my old active cable worked when going directly from the PS4 Pro to the TV. 

On a positive note. I just did 7.1.4 atmos for the first time (Mad Max). It was glorious.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dholmes54 said:


> So its true you shouldn't use a HDMI cable less than 6 ft, you would think as long as HDMI has been out drop out problems shouldn't be a problem with a descent price cable!!


I don't know if that's completely true. I've used cables less than 6' with no issues.


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## Otto Pylot

Ted99 said:


> I have BJC series FE, BJC Series 1, Oppo 203-supplied and Monoprice. They are 18 Gpbs capable in certain lengths, as well as many others are now available. A looped and tie-wrapped 5' cable doesn't put any greater strain on a connector than a 5' dangling-in-a-loop cable as the weight is the same. A shorter cable is lighter, but for the reasons described, HDMI cables shorter than 6' CAN cause problems. The current UHD standard of 4:2:0, 30 Hz, 10-bit can pass through most 10' or less ATC certified High speed cables. An example is the Samsung 4K UHD Blu ray player. It's menu screen is 4:4:4 60K 12-bit, but the movie is 4:2:0 24 Hz, 10-bit and the older Hi-speed HDMI cables can pass the movie, but not the menu screen. If you are sending 4:4:4, 60Hz, 12-bit info one will need a cable rated to pass 18 Gpbs. The JVC 4K PJ, and UHD Blu ray player threads are replete with reports of the failure of the older HDMI cables to pass signals and the need to upgrade to HDMI Institute-certified UHD cables.


Glad to hear that you don't have any "weight strain" issues looping the cable. Good to know. ATC certified cables (HDMI Licensing) are probably the best assurance, but not 100%, that the cable is going to meet your needs if your length is under about 20' - 25'. I don't believe that ATC's certify longer than 25', but I'd have to go back and check. As long as the cable has the counterfeit-proof label that guarantees its authenticity, one should be fine. The nice thing about ATC certification is that they are not cable mfr dependent, so you can have ATC certified cables from various mfrs and still be relatively assured that the certification protocols were the same.


----------



## Desisuperman

So what the consensus on the 20ft certified premium HDMI cables from Monoprice? 

https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pr...id=102&categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024021

I'm thinking of placing the one connect for my Samsung TV in-wall to shorten the length of the HDMI cables. Of course I'll have to build an access point which will be a bit of an eye sore at first but I'm sure after a while I won't even notice it. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Keith Murray

Desisuperman said:


> So what the consensus on the 20ft certified premium HDMI cables from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pr...id=102&categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024021
> 
> I'm thinking of placing the one connect for my Samsung TV in-wall to shorten the length of the HDMI cables. Of course I'll have to build an access point which will be a bit of an eye sore at first but I'm sure after a while I won't even notice it.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'm currently testing out two 15' connected with a Blackbird to make a 30' run from my Denon to my JVC 4k projector and so far this combo is working pretty well. The image syncs pretty quickly and seems to hold when coming from my PS4 (connected to the Denon with a 6').

Still need to watch more with it to see how stable it is, but I'm hopeful.

They are pretty thick cables with little flexibility at the ends, but they have a nice tight fit.


----------



## CraigAmey

Desisuperman said:


> So what the consensus on the 20ft certified premium HDMI cables from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pr...id=102&categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024021
> 
> I'm thinking of placing the one connect for my Samsung TV in-wall to shorten the length of the HDMI cables. Of course I'll have to build an access point which will be a bit of an eye sore at first but I'm sure after a while I won't even notice it.
> 
> Thoughts?


I've tried various cables with a PS4 Pro running 2160p 60Hz YUV420 and RGB444. My original 20ft HDMI cable from 2008 actually came close to working with YUV420 but there were a few sparkles and switching into HDR (10bit) caused it to go black screen. 

4ft Ultra Slim High Speed from Monoprice from PS4 to Receiver caused occasional to frequent flashing, resolved by replacing it with a 3ft Premium Certified cable from Monoprice. 

35ft Cabernet Active cable from Monoprice worked with YUV420 HDR but black screened with RGB 444.

30ft FusionHD from Amazon showed a screen but with constant half screen flashes of white. 

20ft Monoprice Premium Certified HDMI worked with full RGB 444. However adding an in wall Female-Female HDMI connector (no tail) and 3ft Premium Certified HDMI cable resulted in very occassional white flashes and barely visible sparkles on black areas. Extremely close to acceptable but not quite perfect. 

Since I need at least 23 ft between receiver and TV I've ordered a 25ft Belden BJC Series-1 cable and will try that. Will update when I have results (due 1/24).


----------



## CraigAmey

Ted99 said:


> An example is the Samsung 4K UHD Blu ray player. It's menu screen is 4:4:4 60K 12-bit, but the movie is 4:2:0 24 Hz, 10-bit and the older Hi-speed HDMI cables can pass the movie, but not the menu screen. If you are sending 4:4:4, 60Hz, 12-bit info one will need a cable rated to pass 18 Gpbs.


They've fixed the menu screen on the UBD-K8500. When I connected my old cable it worked mostly until I tried to play a 4K HDR Movie (about 12Gb/s bandwidth) at which point it black-screened so the menu bandwidth is lower than 12Gb/s. 

RGB444 8 bit is 17.8Gb/s so 12 bit is going to be way beyond 18Gb/s. The PS4 Pro automatically switches to YUV420 when playing HDR (10 bit) games. It's hard enough finding a cable that will do RGB 444 2160p60 at 8 bits let alone 10 or even 12.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> So what the consensus on the 20ft certified premium HDMI cables from Monoprice?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/pr...id=102&categoryid=10240&subcategoryid=1024021
> 
> I'm thinking of placing the one connect for my Samsung TV in-wall to shorten the length of the HDMI cables. Of course I'll have to build an access point which will be a bit of an eye sore at first but I'm sure after a while I won't even notice it.
> 
> Thoughts?


A 20' passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable, ATC certified, should work if the run is fairly straight and the bend radius is not bad. I say should work because 20' seems to be limit for some setups when pushing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Lay it out on the floor first before installing to test it out thoroughly if your installation is in-wall (in which case you should be using a conduit).


----------



## CmiBobby

*4k/60p HDMI solution*



Otto Pylot said:


> The Luxe cable states 4k/60Hz @ 18Gbps up to 50' so it would appear that the 50' active cable may work. The WallMount cable just states that it exceeds 10.2Gbps so I wouldn't consider them equivalent based on their market-speak. However, we get back to the certification question. Neither cable mentions anything at all about how their speed claims are substantiated so without a certificate of compliance for the cable length you purchased it may work reliably or not. I would feel more comfortable with the Monoprice cable, but thoroughly test it before installation.



Now whether it will work or not I think depends upon the strength of the HDMI signal it is sending . For example , I just tried the Mono Price Luxe HDMI at a length of 35ft and it would carry 4k/24p or 4k/30p signal but not a 4k/60p which is the same problem I had with the 35 ft Monoprice Cabernet Redmere cable I had hooked up before. What I need so I can see the Menu in the Samsung 4KUHD player at start up is to be able to pass a 4k/60p signal- I have the Samsung HDMI signal running directly out to my JVC projector. Now I also have another 35 ft Cabernet Redmere HDMI cable coming out of my DVDO iScanMini, which is receiving the signal from my Pioneer 4k receiver to the iScan Mini to the JVC RS 400 projector and this signal will pass a 4k/60p signal? So the DVDO iScan Mini must be sending out a stronger signal to the HDMI cable than the Samsung is ?? Now last night I just tried a 20 ft Monoprice 4k certified cable and a 15 ft 4k certified cable and connected the 2 with the new Monoprice Blackbird 4k/60p extender and it is working and sending a 4k/60p signal. So I can now finally see the Menu at start up on the 4k Samsung 8500 UHD player. NOW note I just hooked this up last night so I haven't tried it out but 2 times, so I don't know how stable and reliable it is but for now it is a much cheaper solution than paying $300 or more for a HDMI optical cable. NOTE also the 20 ft certified cable is a lot thicker than the 15 ft certified cable, so maybe two 20 ft runs would work just as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CmiBobby said:


> Now whether it will work or not I think depends upon the strength of the HDMI signal it is sending . For example , I just tried the Mono Price Luxe HDMI at a length of 35ft and it would carry 4k/24p or 4k/30p signal but not a 4k/60p which is the same problem I had with the 35 ft Monoprice Cabernet Redmere cable I had hooked up before. What I need so I can see the Menu in the Samsung 4KUHD player at start up is to be able to pass a 4k/60p signal- I have the Samsung HDMI signal running directly out to my JVC projector. Now I also have another 35 ft Cabernet Redmere HDMI cable coming out of my DVDO iScanMini, which is receiving the signal from my Pioneer 4k receiver to the iScan Mini to the JVC RS 400 projector and this signal will pass a 4k/60p signal? So the DVDO iScan Mini must be sending out a stronger signal to the HDMI cable than the Samsung is ?? Now last night I just tried a 20 ft Monoprice 4k certified cable and a 15 ft 4k certified cable and connected the 2 with the new Monoprice Blackbird 4k/60p extender and it is working and sending a 4k/60p signal. So I can now finally see the Menu at start up on the 4k Samsung 8500 UHD player. NOW note I just hooked this up last night so I haven't tried it out but 2 times, so I don't know how stable and reliable it is but for now it is a much cheaper solution than paying $300 or more for a HDMI optical cable. NOTE also the 20 ft certified cable is a lot thicker than the 15 ft certified cable, so maybe two 20 ft runs would work just as well.


Just keep in mind that anytime you introduce a "break" in the chain, in other words an extender, all bets are off. Some cables will handle that better than others. As we have been saying all along, it's a crap shoot at this point in time. If you can get it to work that's great, but not everyone can. A thicker gauge cable is always best but then you lose flexibility and increase the possibility of strain on the input.


----------



## Paul Arnette

CmiBobby said:


> Now whether it will work or not I think depends upon the strength of the HDMI signal it is sending . For example , I just tried the Mono Price Luxe HDMI at a length of 35ft and it would carry 4k/24p or 4k/30p signal but not a 4k/60p which is the same problem I had with the 35 ft Monoprice Cabernet Redmere cable I had hooked up before. What I need so I can see the Menu in the Samsung 4KUHD player at start up is to be able to pass a 4k/60p signal- I have the Samsung HDMI signal running directly out to my JVC projector. Now I also have another 35 ft Cabernet Redmere HDMI cable coming out of my DVDO iScanMini, which is receiving the signal from my Pioneer 4k receiver to the iScan Mini to the JVC RS 400 projector and this signal will pass a 4k/60p signal? So the DVDO iScan Mini must be sending out a stronger signal to the HDMI cable than the Samsung is ?? Now last night I just tried a 20 ft Monoprice 4k certified cable and a 15 ft 4k certified cable and connected the 2 with the new Monoprice Blackbird 4k/60p extender and it is working and sending a 4k/60p signal. So I can now finally see the Menu at start up on the 4k Samsung 8500 UHD player. NOW note I just hooked this up last night so I haven't tried it out but 2 times, so I don't know how stable and reliable it is but for now it is a much cheaper solution than paying $300 or more for a HDMI optical cable. NOTE also the 20 ft certified cable is a lot thicker than the 15 ft certified cable, so maybe two 20 ft runs would work just as well.


It sounds like we're having the same issue. I cannot see the Oppo UDP-203 menu via the Monoprice Luxe at 35 ft. If price was no object, what 35 ft. runs out there would meet our needs? Obviously, I don't want to spend money unnecessarily, but I'd like to know if there are ANY 35 ft. solutions that would work.

I posted the below in it's own thread, but it appears I should have posted it here. Here's my original post reposted here:

Long Run HDMI Cable Recommendation
Hello.

I was referred to this forum, I believe, to ask for a recommendation for a long run HDMI cable that will support my current media room configuration, which is:

LG OLED65E6P
Marantz SR7010
Oppo UDP-203
Oppo BDP-103
Amazon Fire TV
Verizon FiOS

Presently, I have the following cables between the source devices and the AVR:

Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable, HDR, 6ft - Black
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15428

I also have a this cable running from the AVR to the display:

Monoprice Luxe Series CL3 Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 35ft
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13757

However, the above is not Certified Premium, and apparently is not not possible to find long runs certified as such.

I have had some issues like not being able to get a signal from the Oppo UDP-203 when loaded to the menu screen with the display set to Deep Color On, yet it plays a 4K UHD and receives a signal when auto-loaded, video ghosting in small amounts, and random, infrequent audio dropouts.

However, on Blue Jean Cables they make it sound like a cabling issue is a fairly all or nothing type deal. These issues don't seem like that. Yet, I would like the peace of mind that comes with Certified Premium, so I am looking for recommendation on the most future proof, cost effective way to do one or two longer HDMI runs to my display that will mitigate these issues. Basically, I'd like to find a 35 ft. run I can be assured is Certified Premium even if the packaging itself doesn't say so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## Otto Pylot

Premium High Speed HDMI cables (ATC certified, QR code)) are currently only certified up to 25' (and that's not a 100% guarantee that it will work with your setup). Anything beyond that a cable may or may not work regardless of the mfr.'s claim. It's all trial and error depending on your setup, devices, length of run, HDMI chipsets involved, etc. There are no guarantees. A lot of folks are having good luck with a fiber optic cable (Celerity comes to mind) but even that is not 100% guaranteed. Video technology has far outpaced connection technology so far. Wire gauge has a part to play as well. The thicker the wire the better your chances are but the tradeoff is loss of flexibility and increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


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## CollectedDust

I need a 40' run (already have conduit in the walls, with 2 or 3 turns). Is this still just a matter of trial and error to get a 4k 60hz HDR signal with longer runs? This thread is pretty long, and I'm just wondering what my best bet is. Thinner the cord the better, as it will make it easier to run through the conduit.

I did a search on Amazon, and saw cables from a company called Starrise. Anyone on here give these a shot yet?


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## Otto Pylot

CollectedDust said:


> I need a 40' run (already have conduit in the walls, with 2 or 3 turns). Is this still just a matter of trial and error to get a 4k 60hz HDR signal with longer runs? This thread is pretty long, and I'm just wondering what my best bet is. Thinner the cord the better, as it will make it easier to run through the conduit.
> 
> I did a search on Amazon, and saw cables from a company called Starrise. Anyone on here give these a shot yet?


At 40', pretty much trial and error regardless of mfr claims. A lot of folks are having good luck with a fiber optic cable like Celerity. You could also try solid core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS and NOT CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then use some sort of active termination like HDBT.


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## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> Premium High Speed HDMI cables (ATC certified, QR code)) are currently only certified up to 25' (and that's not a 100% guarantee that it will work with your setup). Anything beyond that a cable may or may not work regardless of the mfr.'s claim. It's all trial and error depending on your setup, devices, length of run, HDMI chipsets involved, etc. There are no guarantees. A lot of folks are having good luck with a fiber optic cable (Celerity comes to mind) but even that is not 100% guaranteed. Video technology has far outpaced connection technology so far. Wire gauge has a part to play as well. The thicker the wire the better your chances are but the tradeoff is loss of flexibility and increased strain on the HDMI inputs.


Thanks for this. I didn't expect to be in such relatively uncharted waters. Has anyone had luck with these Monoprice cables, which I thought were expensive until you mentioned Celerity, or would that just be a waste of time?

SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700

SlimRun™ AV CL2 Rated Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14317

I guess I'll do my part and report back my findings after trial and error.


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## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Thanks for this. I didn't expect to be in such relatively uncharted waters. Has anyone had luck with these Monoprice cables, which I thought were expensive until you mentioned Celerity, or would that just be a waste of time?
> 
> SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700
> 
> SlimRun™ AV CL2 Rated Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14317
> 
> I guess I'll do my part and report back my findings after trial and error.


4k/UHD HDR above 25' is definitely uncharted waters. Those are active cables. The only difference is that one is fire rated for in-wall use (CL2). SlimRun is an optical equivalent that does not require an external power source, just like copper-based active cables. 4k and UHD are almost interchangeable terms but nothing is mentioned about HDR (wider color space/more colors and better contrast between light and dark images) in the cable specs. UHD doesn't always mean HDR.

All you can do is try and keep your receipts. Lay the cable out on the floor before installing and thoroughly test it before installing. Keep in mind your bend radius. Optical is sometimes not as forgiving as copper.


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## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> 4k/UHD HDR above 25' is definitely uncharted waters. Those are active cables. The only difference is that one is fire rated for in-wall use (CL2). SlimRun is an optical equivalent that does not require an external power source, just like copper-based active cables. 4k and UHD are almost interchangeable terms but nothing is mentioned about HDR (wider color space/more colors and better contrast between light and dark images) in the cable specs. UHD doesn't always mean HDR.
> 
> All you can do is try and keep your receipts. Lay the cable out on the floor before installing and thoroughly test it before installing. Keep in mind your bend radius. Optical is sometimes not as forgiving as copper.


Thanks. I was able to find a Celerity Technologies 35 ft. HDMI cable on eBay for a "reasonable" price, so I am going to try that. I'll report back.


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## Keith Murray

Paul Arnette said:


> Thanks for this. I didn't expect to be in such relatively uncharted waters. Has anyone had luck with these Monoprice cables, which I thought were expensive until you mentioned Celerity, or would that just be a waste of time?
> 
> SlimRun™ AV Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13700
> 
> SlimRun™ AV CL2 Rated Cable for HDMI® Enabled Devices, 75ft
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14317
> 
> I guess I'll do my part and report back my findings after trial and error.


I tried a SlimRun 75' and I couldn't get any 4k signal with my setup. Monoprice was good and paid return shipping.

I've tried several others as well (Cabernet did not work for me at 35', Luxe sort of did).

What's currently working for me is two certified Monoprice 15' cables connected with a Blackbird. This is working for my PS4 Pro 4k and Samsung UHD Bluray, both connected through my Denon AVR. All connecting cables are Monoprice certified cables as well. So far reasonably quick image sync when switching sources and formats and a stable picture.

I hope it keeps working.


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## CraigAmey

Keith Murray said:


> I tried a SlimRun 75' and I couldn't get any 4k signal with my setup. Monoprice was good and paid return shipping.
> 
> I've tried several others as well (Cabernet did not work for me at 35', Luxe sort of did).
> 
> What's currently working for me is two certified Monoprice 15' cables connected with a Blackbird. This is working for my PS4 Pro 4k and Samsung UHD Bluray, both connected through my Denon AVR. All connecting cables are Monoprice certified cables as well. So far reasonably quick image sync when switching sources and formats and a stable picture.
> 
> I hope it keeps working.


Based on your recommendation I ordered the Blackbird and will give it a try. Expected to arrive Tomorrow. Blue Jeans cable was delayed so I won't get that until tomorrow. Like others have said before I've concluded that any single run over 25ft is unlikely to work in RGB 444 no matter what you pay or what the manufacturer claims.


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## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Thanks. I was able to find a Celerity Technologies 35 ft. HDMI cable on eBay for a "reasonable" price, so I am going to try that. I'll report back.


I'm always a little leery of purchasing anything off of eBay. You just never know if it's the real deal or not. Good luck.


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## Lynkage

*Suggestions please!*

Hello fellow AVSer's,

I have just installed a JVC RS 500 into my theater.

My gear is as follows:

Sources: Oppo 203, Oppo 103D, Roku Ultra

Pre Pro: Anthem AVM 60

And my JVC projector.

All devices have the latest firmware.

Cables are: BJC Series-1 30' garden hose , and a misc. bunch of the Monoprice 18.2Gbs Premium 6/10' cables and some Tera Grand 6/10' Premium cables and the cable that came with the oppo 203.

When I plug everything in and choose say, input 1 HDMI 1, (Oppo 203), the oppo says for best performance please plug in a 4K tv or something very similar. The AVM 60 displays 1080P on the front display as does the info panel of the JVC. I have tried to turn on the RS 500 first then the avm 60 (after the JVC is on for better handshake ability) and still no luck. It does this for both the Roku and Oppo 203. I have also forced the Roku into 4K but when it is plugged in to the AVM it says 4K not available.

In troubleshooting, I ran the garden hose directly to the Oppo 203 and bingo 4K no problem, same with the Roku. Does this sound like a cable problem? The AVM is suposed to be pass-through but I don't know where to troubleshoot from here.

Can any of the Guru's here point me in a direction to maybe get any more info to troubleshoot with?

Thanks in advance.


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## Joe Fernand

Paul Arnette said _'Thanks. I was able to find a Celerity Technologies 35 ft. HDMI cable on eBay for a "reasonable" price, so I am going to try that. I'll report back._' - have you confirmed it is the 18Gbs version, lots of the lower priced cables are 'old' stock/spec and won't reach 18Gbs.

Joe


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## CraigAmey

Lynkage said:


> Hello fellow AVSer's,
> 
> I have just installed a JVC RS 500 into my theater.
> 
> My gear is as follows:
> 
> Sources: Oppo 203, Oppo 103D, Roku Ultra
> 
> Pre Pro: Anthem AVM 60
> 
> And my JVC projector.
> 
> All devices have the latest firmware.
> 
> Cables are: BJC Series-1 30' garden hose , and a misc. bunch of the Monoprice 18.2Gbs Premium 6/10' cables and some Tera Grand 6/10' Premium cables and the cable that came with the oppo 203.
> 
> When I plug everything in and choose say, input 1 HDMI 1, (Oppo 203), the oppo says for best performance please plug in a 4K tv or something very similar. The AVM 60 displays 1080P on the front display as does the info panel of the JVC. I have tried to turn on the RS 500 first then the avm 60 (after the JVC is on for better handshake ability) and still no luck. It does this for both the Roku and Oppo 203. I have also forced the Roku into 4K but when it is plugged in to the AVM it says 4K not available.
> 
> In troubleshooting, I ran the garden hose directly to the Oppo 203 and bingo 4K no problem, same with the Roku. Does this sound like a cable problem? The AVM is suposed to be pass-through but I don't know where to troubleshoot from here.
> 
> Can any of the Guru's here point me in a direction to maybe get any more info to troubleshoot with?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Sounds more like a setting issue. My experience with cable issues is that that you'll get no picture, white flashes or sparkles but it will always try and send the fastest signal that the connected devices support no matter how bad the cable is and by all accounts the BJC Series-1 is one of the most capable cables anyway.

Particulary if your source is sending YUV 420 8 bit any old cable should pass that (my 8 year old HDMI 1.2 fire hose did it just fine). It's only when you get into RGB 444 2160p60 that cables and cable length becomes critical. 

I had a similar issue to yours with the Yamaha RX-A1050/A1060 series where the PS4 kept reporting the TV wasn't 4K HDR capable and it turned out to be a hidden setting on the receiver (HDMI Mode 1 vs Mode 2)


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## Lynkage

Thanks for the reply CraigAmey!

I would tend to agree with it being a setting but I have further done some more testing and I have plugged a 10' Tera Grand certified premium 4k cable into the projector as well as my previous 30' high speed cable which should at least pass 4:2:0 and the AVM would still not show up as a 4K monitor/projector.

I will post in the Anthem AVM 60 thread and see if anyone has had this issue.

Thanks again for your help!


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## jugsta

jugsta said:


> I hooked up the power on the transmit end which seems to have improved things quite a bit. I believe the only time I'm seeing them now is when I'm transitioning back and forth between the media (BD and Videogames) and PS4 Pro interface. I've had a brief cut-out and a few sparkles when doing that but, overall- a large improvement. I guess this will have to do until something better comes along. This seems to suggest that the HDMI out on the Pioneer is probably contributing to the problem. I already suspected that because my old active cable worked when going directly from the PS4 Pro to the TV.
> 
> On a positive note. I just did 7.1.4 atmos for the first time (Mad Max). It was glorious.


I don't want to spread misinformation. USB power on both ends is still inconsistent at best (sparkles, some screen flashes) when in 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 PS4-Pro Menus. Bummed. I'm going to try sourcing the power from the wall on both ends.


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## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm always a little leery of purchasing anything off of eBay. You just never know if it's the real deal or not. Good luck.


Yeah, I know. These guys look reputable. Hopefully, they are.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391555934308?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Yeah, I know. These guys look reputable. Hopefully, they are.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/391555934308?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


Good luck.


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## CmiBobby

*Picture of the Box indicates 16 GBs*



Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck.


If you look closely at the back of the Fiber Optic box it indicated the Data rate at 16 Gbps? not 18 Gbps


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## Otto Pylot

CmiBobby said:


> If you look closely at the back of the Fiber Optic box it indicated the Data rate at 16 Gbps? not 18 Gbps


Those are the old Celerity cables. Some folks have tried them and they just don't work reliably for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz.


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## CraigAmey

Update on my testing of various cables to find some combination that would go 25ft.

Monoprice 20 ft Certified Premium worked great at 2160p60 RGB 444 but too short to be useful. 20ft is the longest cable they make.

Adding a passive female-female connector and a 3ft CP cable introduced some sparkles on black background and very occasional white flashes. (20ft CP + connector + 3ft CP)

Belden BJC Series-1 25ft worked great. What a monster and no problems at all running RGB 444 2160p60 over that length.

Adding a passive female-female connector and a 3ft Certified Premium HDMI from Monoprice also worked fine (25ft BJC + connector + 3ft CP).

Adding a passive female-female connector and a 6ft Certfied Premium HDMI from Monoprice worked but with obvious sparkles noticeable around text when the PS4 switched to dark mode (after a timeout the screen darkens somewhat, no problems seen on a normal screen).

Same as above but using a Belden FE series 4ft Certified cable failed with constant white flashing of half the screen. 

Inserting the 4K Blackbird anywhere in the chain with any of these cables failed to even show a screen, with the HDMI constantly trying to resync. As a test I inserted it between two three foot cables going from the PS4 and the receiver and that worked, so the unit itself was working it just isn't good enough to handle a 20ft run between the source and the input to the Blackbird. I also tried a 3ft CP cable to the Blackbird and then to the BJC series-1 and that didn't work either.

Conclusion:

The BJC Series-1 is the best cable out there and has no trouble running RGB 444 2160p60 over 25ft.

The Monoprice Certified Premium cables are pretty damn good and by far the best value for money. Max run length though is 20ft. 

Belden FE series was disappointing. Not as good as the Monoprice cables and a lot more expensive. 

Monoprice Blackbird. Waste of time, got better results with a simple passive connector than with their active repeater. 

Since I really need at least 4ft from the connector to the TV using a connector isn't an option so it's going to be one 25ft run connecting directly at both ends.

Winner: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LGAK8O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Otto Pylot

Congratulations! You are one of the few who have successfully achieved 4:4:4 @60Hz over 25'. What is the AWG of the BJC cable? I'm surprised a connector between two cables worked but you just illustrated how frustrating this whole issue is. My guess is that someone with the exact same equipment, cables, etc would not be able to do that reliably. At least it does bring some hope.


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## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> Congratulations! You are one of the few who have successfully achieved 4:4:4 @60Hz over 25'. What is the AWG of the BJC cable? I'm surprised a connector between two cables worked but you just illustrated how frustrating this whole issue is. My guess is that someone with the exact same equipment, cables, etc would not be able to do that reliably. At least it does bring some hope.


It's 23.5 AWG. Quite the fire hose. To be perfectly honest I don't see a lot of difference between RGB 444 and YUV 420 at normal viewing distances but the engineer in me just had to make it work  YUV 420 HDR works with just about any cable, including the 35ft Cabernet Active cables I originally used.

I agree that YMMV depending on the source, Yamaha have been making highly rated AV receivers for years and the 60 series Aventage are their top of the line so that probably gives me a head start. I did find that adding the connector to the front end of the Cabernet cables failed to generate a picture but at the back end I could use even the connectors with the little tail with no problem at YUV 420 HDR. Going to RGB 444 is another problem altogether so I'm using a Rite-AV HDMI wall plate there and only at the TV end. I'm happy that it works even though I can't use it (need at least 4ft to get to the TV and could only get 3ft working), that way I know that just the 25ft BJC on it's own will be working comfortably.


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## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> Congratulations! You are one of the few who have successfully achieved 4:4:4 @60Hz over 25'. What is the AWG of the BJC cable? I'm surprised a connector between two cables worked but you just illustrated how frustrating this whole issue is. My guess is that someone with the exact same equipment, cables, etc would not be able to do that reliably. At least it does bring some hope.


One other point worth noting is that you need to pay attention to the input side of the receiver as well. Even a 4ft length of Monoprice UltraSlim HDMI High Speed cable caused occasional problems until I replaced it with a 3ft Certified Premium cable.


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## Q-the-STORM

@CraigAmey: You can actually go a whole lot cheaper if you get a KabelDirekt Top Series cable...

I've got a PS4 Pro that has a 2m (6.5ft) AmazonBasics cable running to a Ligawo 3090064 HDR HDMI Switch 5x1 from there I got a 12.5m (41ft) KabelDirekt Top Series cable going to my AVR, from there another 2m (6.5ft) KabelDirekt Top Series cable going to my LG E6... which makes a total of 16.5m (54ft)... I have no issues with getting 2160p60 10bit HDR 4:2:2 from my PS4 Pro, or 2160p60 8bit 4:4:4 from my Windows 10 PC...

btw you obviously don't need the switch for it to work, the 12.5m cable works fine on it's own...

Maybe I'm lucky that the first one I bought worked, but I have seen a few people saying that their cables can go long lengths carrying 18gbps.... If yours doesn't you can always send it back and buy a new one until you get one that works...


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## doctorwizz

CraigAmey said:


> Update on my testing of various cables to find some combination that would go 25ft.
> 
> 
> Monoprice Blackbird. Waste of time, got better results with a simple passive connector than with their active repeater.
> 
> Winner: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001LGAK8O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


You can not get better results with a passive connector. I don't know why you would say that. 
The Blackbird works perfectly here at 35 feet. 444/60 4k 8bit, HD audio from PC to AVR.
You are doing something wrong.


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## Otto Pylot

CraigAmey said:


> One other point worth noting is that you need to pay attention to the input side of the receiver as well. Even a 4ft length of Monoprice UltraSlim HDMI High Speed cable caused occasional problems until I replaced it with a 3ft Certified Premium cable.


For a passive cable, the input side makes no difference. If the cable is active, it certainly does. As pointed out above, some folks have luck with their cables and some don't. It's all trial and error.


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## CraigAmey

Q-the-STORM said:


> @CraigAmey: You can actually go a whole lot cheaper if you get a KabelDirekt Top Series cable...
> 
> I've got a PS4 Pro that has a 2m (6.5ft) AmazonBasics cable running to a Ligawo 3090064 HDR HDMI Switch 5x1 from there I got a 12.5m (41ft) KabelDirekt Top Series cable going to my AVR, from there another 2m (6.5ft) KabelDirekt Top Series cable going to my LG E6... which makes a total of 16.5m (54ft)... I have no issues with getting 2160p60 10bit HDR 4:2:2 from my PS4 Pro, or 2160p60 8bit 4:4:4 from my Windows 10 PC...
> 
> btw you obviously don't need the switch for it to work, the 12.5m cable works fine on it's own...
> 
> Maybe I'm lucky that the first one I bought worked, but I have seen a few people saying that their cables can go long lengths carrying 18gbps.... If yours doesn't you can always send it back and buy a new one until you get one that works...


So there is no HDR 422 setting for the PS4. The choices are RGB (444) or YUV 420 (8 bit or 10 bit HDR). I suspect you're running YUV 420 in which case even at 10 bit that's only 12Gb/s and the only cable I tried that DIDN'T pass that was an eight year old 20ft HDMI 1.2 cable. 

You don't mention what cabling setup you have for your PC but 41ft sounds a bit hard to believe, especially from a cable that isn't even their top of the line series (i.e. Pro), I'd double check your settings on that one. 

If your 41ft cable in the PS4 Pro path is RGB 444 capable why aren't you running that? Try switching into RGB mode and see if your cable still works. That's something I know pushes out the full 18Gb/s bandwidth (okay 17.8Gb/s but who's counting) and is the acid test of your cabling and connectors.


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## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> For a passive cable, the input side makes no difference. If the cable is active, it certainly does. As pointed out above, some folks have luck with their cables and some don't. It's all trial and error.


By receiver I meant the Yamaha RX-A1060, i.e. the cable that goes from the PS4 Pro to the RX-A1060. They sit on top of each other so there is no distance issue, unlike the TV which is 15ft away from the RX-A1060. My point was that while I was busy focusing on the 25ft cable from the receiver to the TV I almost forgot that at 18Gb/s even 4ft cables can have issues.


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## CraigAmey

doctorwizz said:


> You can not get better results with a passive connector. I don't know why you would say that.
> The Blackbird works perfectly here at 35 feet. 444/60 4k 8bit, HD audio from PC to AVR.
> You are doing something wrong.


You can get better results with a passive connector. I said that because I have a Blackbird and I have a passive connector and one worked and one didn't (Guess which one). 

I'm glad it worked for you but it didn't work for me, maybe I got a faulty Blackbird (but I did test it with a shorter run and it worked okay). I'm beginning to wonder if you PC guys are actually running 2160p60 RGB 444 8 bit because I keep seeing that this works on cheap cables. I'll be more impressed when someone can show me that they got it working with a PS4 Pro in 2160p60 RGB mode. I'm also using the long cable between the AVR and the TV, not between the (original) source and the AVR. Maybe the C6 has some issue with its input that doesn't like the output from the Blackbird or vice versa. 

I doubt that I'm doing something wrong, it's not rocket science. You plug the hdmi source into the end marked "Input" and the cable from the TV into the end marked "Output". What exactly do you think I might be doing wrong? The connection at the other ends is obviously fine or the passive connector wouldn't work either.


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## Q-the-STORM

@CraigAmey: The PS4 Pro does have a 4:2:2 mode, but only in HDR....
If you are not in HDR mode, 2160p - RGB will send 4:4:4, but if you are in HDR mode 2160p - RGB will send 4:2:2... you can check video output information, it will display YUV422 when you are in HDR and have RGB selected...

anyways, I of course also have tried 2160p - RGB without HDR, works fine... I just got my PS4 Pro recently, the only games I have been playing are in HDR, that's why I only mentioned the YUV422 HDR mode, because that's the one I can confirm working without issue for several hours... will play some non-HDR games when I have time...

as for sending 2160p60 4:4:4 via my PC, I used chroma subsampling test images (1 and 2) to confirm that I am actually getting 4:4:4, passed everything...


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## CraigAmey

Q-the-STORM said:


> @CraigAmey: The PS4 Pro does have a 4:2:2 mode, but only in HDR....
> If you are not in HDR mode, 2160p - RGB will send 4:4:4, but if you are in HDR mode 2160p - RGB will send 4:2:2... you can check video output information, it will display YUV422 when you are in HDR and have RGB selected...
> 
> anyways, I of course also have tried 2160p - RGB without HDR, works fine... I just got my PS4 Pro recently, the only games I have been playing are in HDR, that's why I only mentioned the YUV422 HDR mode, because that's the one I can confirm working without issue for several hours... will play some non-HDR games when I have time...
> 
> as for sending 2160p60 4:4:4 via my PC, I used chroma subsampling test images (1 and 2) to confirm that I am actually getting 4:4:4, passed everything...


Okay, I was talking about the settings on the Sound and Display menu. There the choices are YUV 420 or RGB. There is no RGB 422 because it wouldn't make sense to limit the bandwidth of some colors but not others so anything other than 444 is always going to be YUV. Games vary and the only one I have is Ratchet and Clank which I believe runs YUV 420, but you're right, there are some that run YUV 422.

Again maybe receiver inputs are just better at picking up a signal than the LG TVs. That's really the only difference I can see with your setup vs mine, and there are certainly a lot of other people in my situation having the same issues. Running a long cable from the AVR to the TV seems to be a much harder problem than running a long cable from a PC or PS4 Pro to a receiver.


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## Otto Pylot

CraigAmey said:


> By receiver I meant the Yamaha RX-A1060, i.e. the cable that goes from the PS4 Pro to the RX-A1060. They sit on top of each other so there is no distance issue, unlike the TV which is 15ft away from the RX-A1060. My point was that while I was busy focusing on the 25ft cable from the receiver to the TV I almost forgot that at 18Gb/s even 4ft cables can have issues.


An 4' 18Gbps cable is a bit of an overkill. Which certified 18Gbps cable did you get? Certified "at" 18Gbps or "up to 18Gbps"?


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## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> An 4' 18Gbps cable is a bit of an overkill. Which certified 18Gbps cable did you get? Certified "at" 18Gbps or "up to 18Gbps"?


Monoprice 18Gb/s Certified Premium 3ft. I was surprised, like you implied I thought just about anything would work at that distance. Monoprice UltraSlim 4ft High Speed passive were the ones that didn't work.


----------



## Q-the-STORM

CraigAmey said:


> Again maybe receiver inputs are just better at picking up a signal than the LG TVs. That's really the only difference I can see with your setup vs mine, and there are certainly a lot of other people in my situation having the same issues. Running a long cable from the AVR to the TV seems to be a much harder problem than running a long cable from a PC or PS4 Pro to a receiver.


When I was testing, I also tried connecting the 41ft cable to the TV directly, also worked without issue....

again, maybe I'm just lucky, but the KabelDirekt Cables are definitely worth a try... btw the Top and Pro series are the same cables, only difference is that the Pro series is Nylon braided..


----------



## BrandonJF

CraigAmey said:


> You can get better results with a passive connector. I said that because I have a Blackbird and I have a passive connector and one worked and one didn't (Guess which one).
> 
> I'm glad it worked for you but it didn't work for me, maybe I got a faulty Blackbird (but I did test it with a shorter run and it worked okay). I'm beginning to wonder if you PC guys are actually running 2160p60 RGB 444 8 bit because I keep seeing that this works on cheap cables. I'll be more impressed when someone can show me that they got it working with a PS4 Pro in 2160p60 RGB mode. I'm also using the long cable between the AVR and the TV, not between the (original) source and the AVR. Maybe the C6 has some issue with its input that doesn't like the output from the Blackbird or vice versa.
> 
> I doubt that I'm doing something wrong, it's not rocket science. You plug the hdmi source into the end marked "Input" and the cable from the TV into the end marked "Output". What exactly do you think I might be doing wrong? The connection at the other ends is obviously fine or the passive connector wouldn't work either.


I had the exact same results as you with the Blackbird. And, yeah, it is next to impossible to do something wrong. I could put a 6 ft cable between the source and the blackbird and get no signal. Switch it around and have a longer run feed the blackbird with a shorter cable going from the blackbird to the display and it might work. Having a blackbird in the chain with two smaller cables could not even reproduce the results I get with one 30ft Cabernet or Luxe Monoprice cable. It is odd that given the promised performance of the Blackbird it can't extend a 4K signal by 6ft.

Despite that, I am tempted to try two 15' cables with the blackbird - I have only tried it with 25' + 6'.


----------



## doctorwizz

My Blackbird works perfectly between 2 KabelDirect Pros. 15' and 20'. Both of those can do perfect 444/60 4K when used alone connected directly to the TV from PC. 
I have never tested it with shorter cables, mixing cable brands, or tested using different 4K sources. Like a Nvidia Sheild. Or putting the Blackbird between the AVR out and the TV using various lengths and or brands. 
Maybe the BB doesn't work too well between shorter cables, different sources, or different brands. 
I have some MP certified cables somewhere. I will dig them out for testing tomorrow.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ It could be that both of those cables are under that "magical" 25' length so they in theory would work fine on their own, and with the addition of the BB between them there's no issue.


----------



## doctorwizz

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ It could be that both of those cables are under that "magical" 25' length so they in theory would work fine on their own, and with the addition of the BB between them there's no issue.


I completely agree.


----------



## BrandonJF

doctorwizz said:


> My Blackbird works perfectly between 2 KabelDirect Pros. 15' and 20'. Both of those can do perfect 444/60 4K when used alone connected directly to the TV from PC.
> I have never tested it with shorter cables, mixing cable brands, or tested using different 4K sources. Like a Nvidia Sheild. Or putting the Blackbird between the AVR out and the TV using various lengths and or brands.
> Maybe the BB doesn't work too well between shorter cables, different sources, or different brands.
> I have some MP certified cables somewhere. I will dig them out for testing tomorrow.


I had tried the BB between a 10' MP Certified cable and a 20' MP certified cable and it wouldn't work. I tried it going straight from the source and after the AVR. The downside with testing shorter cable lengths is that I can't really return them without paying return shipping (which ends up being almost as much as the cost of the cables) since the shorter cables would work fine on their own. I have no problem trying/returning the longer cables since they claim they should work - not sure why they still make that claim since we have yet to hear of someone having success. Are there really that few people trying to pull this off? 

It may be that there are some Blackbirds with issues, too, although I'd hope that is unlikely. 

I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.


----------



## doctorwizz

BrandonJF said:


> I had tried the BB between a 10' MP Certified cable and a 20' MP certified cable and it wouldn't work. I tried it going straight from the source and after the AVR. The downside with testing shorter cable lengths is that I can't really return them without paying return shipping (which ends up being almost as much as the cost of the cables) since the shorter cables would work fine on their own. I have no problem trying/returning the longer cables since they claim they should work - not sure why they still make that claim since we have yet to hear of someone having success. Are there really that few people trying to pull this off?
> 
> It may be that there are some Blackbirds with issues, too, although I'd hope that is unlikely.
> 
> I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.


What was the 4K source?


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are the old Celerity cables. Some folks have tried them and they just don't work reliably for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz.


Damn it! Thanks for pointing that out. Back the drawing board...



CraigAmey said:


> Conclusion:
> 
> The BJC Series-1 is the best cable out there and has no trouble running RGB 444 2160p60 over 25ft.


Am I wasting my time trying this cable at 35 ft?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Damn it! Thanks for pointing that out. Back the drawing board...
> 
> 
> 
> Am I wasting my time trying this cable at 35 ft?


There really isn't such a thing as "the best cable out there' because that implies that it will work for everyone regardless of the devices, setup ,etc. All you can do is try. It may work well for you, just don't get your expectations too high.


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> There really isn't such a thing as "the best cable out there' because that implies that it will work for everyone regardless of the devices, setup ,etc. All you can do is try. It may work well for you, just don't get your expectations too high.


Oh, my expectations aren't even close to high anymore.  I'm just trying to weed out those cables that have already been proven not to work. It sounds like the BJC S1 past 25 ft. is uncharted water but may work, so I will give them a try.

In the meantime, Celerity has asked to see my cable from eBay, so that may not be a complete dead-end yet. I appreciate everyone's help here, especially yours!


----------



## jugsta

Here is my conversation with a Celerity support agent the other day:



> Greetings,
> 
> I recently purchased one of your products from a reseller on Amazon.com. It is the 50 foot variety of your "Detachable FIber Optic Cable". I purchased this cable because I had recently purchased and Playstation 4 Pro and discovered, at my distance (40-50 feet), there were no viable options for passing through 4K/60Hz/4:4:4 Chroma.
> 
> As I was very excited to try out this product, you can imagine my disappointment when I was able to achieve a signal (something I could not do before) but there were inconsistencies with the output quality. Notably, there are some flashes of large bands of white pixels that will momentarily fill up the screen. This is not a common occurrence but does happen about once an hour. More of a nuisance is a "sparkling" pixel effect which is almost constant. Its is very apparent when the screen is pitch black. Here it looks a small subset of the pixels randomly flash white for an instant. It happens all around the screen and is very consistent. Like I said, Its almost unnoticeable when the screen is full of colors, but is very apparent on solid color screens.
> I wanted to ask if this is a common complaint you have been asked about or do I possible have a faulty cable. I've read, on certain message boards, that this is evident of a inadequate HDMI signal. I would love a response and hopefully a solution to the problem I am experiencing. Below is my setup:
> 
> Multiple Sources (all experiencing the problem) > Pioneer SC-95 AVR > Celerity 50 ft Fiber Optic > LG OLED 65C6P Television).
> 
> Thanks. Please let me know if you need more information.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeremy Caldwell





> Hi Jeremy,
> Sorry about the what happened in your setup there. Is it possible to try out a DVD player as source without AVR in the path?
> 
> Thanks
> Xiaolin





> Yes. I will give that a try. For what its worth, I suspect the AVR is contributing to the problem but I expected your cable to fix it. I'll respon back once I've tested.





> Hi Jeremy,
> If the source to AVR using copper cable and AVR to TV using fiber cable, it might have video issues. So we like to try the source to sink directly using fiber cable.
> 
> Thanks
> Xiaolin


----------



## CraigAmey

Update on some more testing. I discovered that the sparkles on the PS4 Pro are there even if I plug the BJC Series-1 directly into the TV. So that revises some of the earlier results and I've also tested three new cables. They're very difficult to see at distance and only appear on the darkened screen that you get after a 5 minute timeout. When the PS4 Pro is active the picture is perfect (for the cables that work). 

25 ft BJC Series-1 connected to RiteAV Female-Female Connector. Second cable connected from RiteAV to LG OLED65C6P HDMI IN-2. Source PS4 Pro 2160p60 RGB 444 via a Yamaha RX-A1060 Receiver. 

Belden FE Series 4ft ($20) FAIL
Audioquest Chocolate 6ft ($150) FAIL

Monoprice Certified Premium 3ft ($4) PASS
Monoprice Certified Premium 6ft ($5) PASS
RocketFish 4ft ($24) PASS
Monster Black Platinum 5ft ($60) PASS

Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands. 

At this point I'm going to go with the Monster cable as it seems the beefiest, has the most positive locking and grip at the connector (some of the others feel quite loose e.g. Monoprice) and is the right length (I need at least 4ft but I'll go with 5ft. That and unlike the others I had to destroy the packaging to open it, so don't feel comfortable returning it .


----------



## Otto Pylot

CraigAmey said:


> Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands.


That's exactly the point we've been making for years is that companies like AudioQuest and Monster usually don't perform any better than a cable that costs much less. Their cables may have excellent characteristics when checked out on a scope but the human eyes and ears can only see and hear so much so once you start listing those really cool scope specs, it's really meaningless (much like gold connectors, nitrogen/oxygen free copper, etc). But what you're paying for is very slick marketing/packaging etc. If one has exhausted all the other cables and they don't work, then certainly check out the overpriced brands because they may work for no other reason than you just happen to get a particular cable that works for you.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> In the meantime, Celerity has asked to see my cable from eBay, so that may not be a complete dead-end yet. I appreciate everyone's help here, especially yours!



Hmmm, if Celerity wants to see the cable, maybe they'll replace it free with a newer one  Would certainly be good p.r. on their part.


----------



## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> That's exactly the point we've been making for years is that companies like AudioQuest and Monster usually don't perform any better than a cable that costs much less.


I'm familiar with the concept of overkill, i.e. selling someone a $500 1 ft composite video cable but the expectation was that the overpriced cables should perform at least as well as the cheaper versions and that was not the case here.

I'm actually not much of a fan of Monster products in general but the Black Platinum looks like a well made cable and they publish their testing results up to 27Gb/s. That of course is overkill since nothing goes that high but it's nice to know the cable could handle it if needed. 

Audioquest on the other hand is an absolute disgrace. They're basically packaging cheap rubbish and giving it fancy names and selling it for top dollar. I don't know what to say about Belden. Their Series-1 is awesome and their FE Series is a miserable failure so apparently even within one company you can't generalize across the product range. 

As an aside the only other Monster product I own is a Power Conditioner. Very nice unit and well made with 10 outlets on the back (I basically use it as an elegant power strip). It was dead on arrival with the electronic switching board completely dead. 

When I investigated I found the power supply to the board consisted of two signal diodes forming a half wave rectifier. Both were dead, unsurprisingly since they're not nearly big enough to handle power supply current. I replaced them with some larger power diodes and it's been working great ever since. 

I can't believe they designed it that way but it's a common issue with the model, so someone screwed up big-time somewhere.


----------



## Keith Murray

BrandonJF said:


> I had tried the BB between a 10' MP Certified cable and a 20' MP certified cable and it wouldn't work. I tried it going straight from the source and after the AVR. The downside with testing shorter cable lengths is that I can't really return them without paying return shipping (which ends up being almost as much as the cost of the cables) since the shorter cables would work fine on their own. I have no problem trying/returning the longer cables since they claim they should work - not sure why they still make that claim since we have yet to hear of someone having success. Are there really that few people trying to pull this off?
> 
> It may be that there are some Blackbirds with issues, too, although I'd hope that is unlikely.
> 
> I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.


It's amazing how different everyone's experience is.

Right now I have 6' connecting all my components to my Denon (PS4 Pro, Samsung UHD, regular stuff) and a 15' -> Blackbird -> 15' to my JVC. All Monoprice certified cables.

Seems to be working very well. 4k 60p RGB and YUV from the PS4P is fine. Menus and 4k HDR (Revenant for example) from the Samsung player are fine.

It does take a few seconds to sync. The worst thing is that occasionally when switching back to 1080i (Dish Hopper for example), my JVC loses sync and just displays static. Switching inputs away and back fixes it up.

I can live with that minor issue. I'm about ready to commit to these cables and get them in wall. 

YMMV


----------



## CraigAmey

BrandonJF said:


> I'm going to end up with credit with Monoprice, so the only thing I have left to try is the 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP Certified and hope that the 20' length is what killed it before. I'm not very optimistic, though.


Not the cheapest solution but I'm successfully running 30ft now using 

(a) 25ft BJC Series 1 from Receiver to RiteAV Female-Female HDMI. ($87)
(b) 5ft Monster Black Platinum from RiteAV to TV. ($60)

To be fair it also works with a 6ft Certified Premium cable from Monoprice ($5) but I decided to stick with the Monster cable just to be safe (and because CP cables don't come in 4ft or 5ft lengths).


----------



## Paul Arnette

CraigAmey said:


> Not the cheapest solution but I'm successfully running 30ft now using
> 
> (a) 25ft BJC Series 1 from Receiver to RiteAV Female-Female HDMI. ($87)
> (b) 5ft Monster Black Platinum from RiteAV to TV. ($60)
> 
> To be fair it also works with a 6ft Certified Premium cable from Monoprice ($5) but I decided to stick with the Monster cable just to be safe (and because CP cables don't come in 4ft or 5ft lengths).


Have you tried the BJC Series 1 at a longer distance? I need 35 ft., and I'm just wondering why you feel the need to go the RiteAv route unless you tried a longer run and it failed, or you couldn't get the 35 ft. cable installed due to flexibility?


----------



## CraigAmey

Paul Arnette said:


> Have you tried the BJC Series 1 at a longer distance? I need 35 ft., and I'm just wondering why you feel the need to go the RiteAv route unless you tried a longer run and it failed, or you couldn't get the 35 ft. cable installed due to flexibility?


No, I only really need 25ft. My plan was to run through the wall directly to the TV if necessary so I bought the shortest version that could do that. I already run through the wall (a brush plate) at the receiver end but for the TV end my preference was to have another cable going to a wall-plate if possible as that section is more visible and I wanted to keep it neat. Also the Series-1 is a huge cable and I'd be concerned about damaging the connector with the weight if I plugged it directly into the TV. 

Having said that if 25ft + connector + 6ft works then I'd be optimistic that a single 35ft Series-1 would also work.

For the longer run I've tested the following so far.

BJC Series-1 25ft PASS
Monoprice Certified Premium 20ft FAIL (Very occassional white flashes)
Monoprice Cabernet 35ft FAIL (No picture)
FusionHD 30ft FAIL (Constant white flashing)

I just ordered a 35ft Monster Black Platinum so I'll update if that works when it arrives. I hope others find this testing useful. It seems like I have a very good environment for testing as I'm right on the edge of it working so it's very easy to tell which cables cut the mustard and which don't


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keith Murray said:


> I can live with that minor issue. I'm about ready to commit to these cables and get them in wall.


For in-wall installations the mantra is conduit conduit conduit. If you don't, you will regret it later. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.


----------



## Keith Murray

Otto Pylot said:


> For in-wall installations the mantra is conduit conduit conduit. If you don't, you will regret it later. 1.5" - 2.0" conduit.


If only I could go back in time and talk to the people who built the house...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keith Murray said:


> If only I could go back in time and talk to the people who built the house...


Conduit can be installed on inside walls by an experienced electrician without opening the walls other than for the outlet box. We did just that in two rooms. The cable is open to the attic space but that can easily and neatly be laid in place. However, it is a bit more challenging if you have a two-story.


----------



## Keith Murray

Otto Pylot said:


> Conduit can be installed on inside walls by an experienced electrician without opening the walls other than for the outlet box. We did just that in two rooms. The cable is open to the attic space but that can easily and neatly be laid in place. However, it is a bit more challenging if you have a two-story.


One story house, but exterior wall with some electrical running horizontally. It took hours to get my original HDMI cables fished through. I'm hopeful that I can use my existing cables to pull the new cables through.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Keith Murray said:


> One story house, but exterior wall with some electrical running horizontally. It took hours to get my original HDMI cables fished through. I'm hopeful that I can use my existing cables to pull the new cables through.


Depending on how much space you have to navigate, I'd suggest trying to pull an additional cable like a solid core CAT-6(a) cable (non-CCS and NOT a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) as well. As the video standards continue to change, the connection technology is lagging further and further behind so you will be changing cables again, probably sooner than later. If you can successfully get the CAT-6 cable thru, just leave a big enough service loop at both ends (you can probably curl up enough inside the utility box, that's what I did) so that you can easily terminate the ends to something like HDBT or some other form of active termination when the time comes. That is really the only way to "future proof" your cabling. Good luck.


----------



## brianlvi3

Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.

With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing. 

How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.

I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...


----------



## brianlvi3

Using the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic I have the usb plugged into the usb on the Epson PJ but not on the Marantz 7702 end because there is no usb on the rear of the Marantz. Can I use a usb off of say the OPPO, or what other options? Will it make a difference to have both of the usb ends plugged in?


----------



## thetman

brianlvi3 said:


> Just UGH!! I have the Epson 5040, Oppo 203 and the Marantz 7702mkii. I have no choice but to run an approx. 30 foot cable due to my room layout. I have been using PJ's for 20 years. My first was a Sharpvision LCD hah. Anyway my current set up has been nothing but problems due to my HDMI run. I have used Cat cable with Key Digital, Audioquest HDMI's and Celerity fiber optic cables. My last cable was a Monoprice active HDMI.
> 
> With my new set up I just keep loosing the signal on everything, Optimum box, Oppo, Xbox, PS4. I finally tried the Celerity 35 foot fiber optic cable. It worked for a solid week with everything including 4K movies. I ran it through my ceiling, worked great for 3 weeks. Last night I put on Da vinci Code 4K, the signal kept dropping out. 20-30 times during the entire movie. Than I tried TV watching, same thing.
> 
> How can it work for almost a month and now problems. Maybe I turned it on in a different order...I am going to do more troubleshooting later on tonight. I have about had it. I hate to say that this might be it for me. Looking at the biggest TV's money can by right now. I hate to give my PJ hobby but I have about had it.
> 
> I purchased the wireless Epson, the UBE. I can't even get that to work. With the PJ and receiver only 8 feet apart, it will just drop out the signal. No idea why. It will not even recognize my cable box. It says no signal but transmitter located. It will run Oppo, Xbox, PS4 (with some drop outs) but will not bring up a picture using the wireless. I am just ready to throw in the towel, just UGH...


How is it when you watch regular 1080P? I only ask because unlike you I have never owned a projector and soon my room will be done but after reading all this it looks like I may just get a big Tv instead for awhile or if I decide to go Projector I will stick with 1080P only. Don't want to jump through hoops just to be disappointed. and frankly most of this very confusing, being a projector newbie is bad enough. I will need a 35ft. cable.


----------



## brianlvi3

thetman said:


> How is it when you watch regular 1080P? I only ask because unlike you I have never owned a projector and soon my room will be done but after reading all this it looks like I may just get a big Tv instead for awhile or if I decide to go Projector I will stick with 1080P only. Don't want to jump through hoops just to be disappointed. and frankly most of this very confusing, being a projector newbie is bad enough. I will need a 35ft. cable.


I am playing with the settings still but even with regular TV watching, I have the drop outs.


----------



## Paul Arnette

Good news! My *35 ft.* BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable arrived last night, and I ran it in between my Marantz SR7010 and LG OLED65E6P and was able to get a menu on the Oppo UDP-203 with Custom Resolution set to UHD Auto and UHD 60Hz and Color Space set to YCbCr 4:4:4!

*Next Issue: *

As some have pointed out, the BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable is a "fire hose" or extremely thick and heavy cable. I can see why there are some concerns hooking it directly to my sources has it has a tendency to pull or weigh down the HDMI connectors. I'd like to avoid adding anything else into the connection chain. Is there a way to reduce this stress and not add any other adapters and cables?


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ that is the main concern about thick gauge wires. They will work but at a price. That price being loss of flexibility and increased strain on the input. Depending on how much space you have behind your equipment, as straight of a connection as possible will help or you could jerry-rig some sort of support for the cable with zip ties.


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> ...or you could jerry-rig some sort of support for the cable with zip ties.


Yes, this is what I was thinking. I wasn't sure if anyone here had an experience doing this and could help give me some ideas.


----------



## Otto Pylot

How is your HTS setup?


----------



## DavidinCT

CraigAmey said:


> Hilarious that a $150 Audioquest cable was outperformed by a $5 Monoprice cable. Just goes to show how little substance there is to some of these high priced brands..


Yea, it's funny... I have been troubleshooting a HDR issue (that the system is about 18' away), a $60 cable is spotty but, a 25' ebay from china that was claimed shielded with a braid on the outside that I scored for $12, passes it fine with no issues. I also have a spare if I need it (I picked up 2 at the time years ago)


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot this is my setup. Currently, I am just testing the BJC cable by plugging it directly into my AVR (second picture) and running it around to the display (fourth picture). But I can run it under the floor from the bottom of the rack (first picture) to the wall behind the display (fifth picture).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hmmm, could you put the receiver on the bottom shelf and then maybe design some sort of support underneath the cable so that it connects in a straight line to the input. Maybe something like a small "L" bracket that is attached to the wall and the cable rests on the long portion of the bracket or is zip-tied to it.

I just noticed that the cable connects sideways to the tv. I have a side HDMI 3 input on my tv but I don't use that one. HDMI 1 is located in the back of the tv so I can connect either straight on (which I currently do) or I could use a 90 degree adapter and connect upwards.


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, could you put the receiver on the bottom shelf and then maybe design some sort of support underneath the cable so that it connects in a straight line to the input. Maybe something like a small "L" bracket that is attached to the wall and the cable rests on the long portion of the bracket or is zip-tied to it.
> 
> I just noticed that the cable connects sideways to the tv. I have a side HDMI 3 input on my tv but I don't use that one. HDMI 1 is located in the back of the tv so I can connect either straight on (which I currently do) or I could use a 90 degree adapter and connect upwards.


Thanks. I've temporarily alleviated the stress on the AVR input by tying the HDMI cable around a strut on the component stand. Not sure what I'm going to do about the display. It only has side HDMI inputs. One of the few things about the LG OLED65E6P I don't like so far.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Thanks. I've temporarily alleviated the stress on the AVR input by tying the HDMI cable around a strut on the component stand. Not sure what I'm going to do about the display. It only has side HDMI inputs. One of the few things about the LG OLED65E6P I don't like so far.


Yeah, I saw the strut and thought about that as well. You can also put a block or something similar so that the cable sits on it and not "hang" from the input. You might want to look into a 90 degree connector for the LG so that you could run the cable up and behind the panel to connect to the input without having to connect directly from the side. They aren't expensive and if it works then you wouldn't see the cable at all. It also looks like you might be able to attach a plastic zip-tie thru the ventilation slots on the top of the tv creating a loop and then attach another tie to the loop and around the cable to reduce the strain on the input.


----------



## dvwjr

Paul Arnette said:


> *Next Issue: *
> 
> As some have pointed out, the BJC Series-1 Belden Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable is a "fire hose" or extremely thick and heavy cable. I can see why there are some concerns hooking it directly to my sources has it has a tendency to pull or weigh down the HDMI connectors. I'd like to avoid adding anything else into the connection chain. Is there a way to reduce this stress and not add any other adapters and cables?


You might consider zip ties in combination with https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Echo-lock-Universal-HDMI/dp/B001QV2AKK to get the BJC series-1 hdmi cable to stay connected. Use the zip ties to provide the 'vertical' strain relief by connecting to the A/V rack, then the Blue Echo provides the 'horizontal' strain relief and hdmi pullout resistance.

I have used this combination for years and it works well.

dvwjr


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, I saw the strut and thought about that as well. You can also put a block or something similar so that the cable sits on it and not "hang" from the input. You might want to look into a 90 degree connector for the LG so that you could run the cable up and behind the panel to connect to the input without having to connect directly from the side. They aren't expensive and if it works then you wouldn't see the cable at all. It also looks like you might be able to attach a plastic zip-tie thru the ventilation slots on the top of the tv creating a loop and then attach another tie to the loop and around the cable to reduce the strain on the input.


Is there a particular brand of 90-degree connector that's better than another. My fear here is that I just got a cabling solution to work, so I don't want to degrade the signal using a subpar connector.



dvwjr said:


> You might consider zip ties in combination with https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Echo-lock-Universal-HDMI/dp/B001QV2AKK to get the BJC series-1 hdmi cable to stay connected. Use the zip ties to provide the 'vertical' strain relief by connecting to the A/V rack, then the Blue Echo provides the 'horizontal' strain relief and hdmi pullout resistance.
> 
> I have used this combination for years and it works well.
> 
> dvwjr


Very interesting. I did not know these existed. Thanks!

You guys have been very helpful. I've been away from the AVS Forum community for a long time because I just haven't had the opportunity to upgrade much until recently, but I really love how helpful everyone has been. :grouphug:


----------



## Otto Pylot

Paul Arnette said:


> Is there a particular brand of 90-degree connector that's better than another. My fear here is that I just got a cabling solution to work, so I don't want to degrade the signal using a subpar connector.


I have not used 90 degree connectors before but they aren't that expensive so I'd buy one and give it a try. If you degrade the signal it just won't work so test it out as you have it setup now, remove the cable from the tv, add the 90 degree, reconnect and see if there is a difference. The Blue Echo as mentioned is a good idea as well. I had forgotten about those.


----------



## Paul Arnette

Otto Pylot said:


> I have not used 90 degree connectors before but they aren't that expensive so I'd buy one and give it a try. If you degrade the signal it just won't work so test it out as you have it setup now, remove the cable from the tv, add the 90 degree, reconnect and see if there is a difference. The Blue Echo as mentioned is a good idea as well. I had forgotten about those.


OK. Thanks! I will try the Cable Matters from Amazon has they have good review feedback and Prime shipping and report back.

My optical HDMI cable is off to CA for Celerity Technologies to look at, so I will report back on that as well at some point. The more information the merrier, I say. It sounds like there are a lot of people in this frustrating, long HDMI run boat.


----------



## CraigAmey

Another update. Received my 35ft Monster Black Platinum cable over the weekend. I had high hopes for this cable but it proved to be a bust.

Monster Ultimate HDMI Black Platinum 35ft:

2160p 60Hz YUV 420 8 bit PASS
2160p 60Hz YUV 420 10 bit HDR FAIL (No Picture)
2160p 60Hz RGB 444 8 bit FAIL (No Picture)

So able to pass ~10Gb/s but fails on everything 12Gb/s and above. Not good for a cable that costs $200 and is supposed to be good to 27Gb/s.


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## jokaly

amazon has the best cables, never have an issue with them


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## CraigAmey

jokaly said:


> amazon has the best cables, never have an issue with them


That's a very broad statement. Do you mean Amazon Basics or anything sold by Amazon (note the Monster Cable above which failed miserably was purchased from Amazon).

Do you have any examples of cables that can pass 2160p60 RGB 444 at distances of 25+ft or are you just commenting that you haven't stressed your cables with anything difficult so you're assuming they're as good as anything else on the market?


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## Q-the-STORM

@CraigAmey: Try KabelDirekt Top Series cables, many report those as passing 18gbps over long distances...


----------



## hifiaudio2

Anything new on the Celerity? I was using a 50ft one in my last theater but it was never asked to pass anything more than early on Sony server 4k. I still have the cable and am setting up a new theater and planned to use it for all of the latest bandwidth intensive goodies.


----------



## weboperations

hifiaudio2 said:


> Anything new on the Celerity? I was using a 50ft one in my last theater but it was never asked to pass anything more than early on Sony server 4k. I still have the cable and am setting up a new theater and planned to use it for all of the latest bandwidth intensive goodies.


I just received a 35 foot Celerity cable and it failed to pass a 4k 60hz HDR signal. It behaved no differently than a 25 foot $20 copper cable from Amazon. $250 down the drain basically, since it was a special order non returnable item. 

I'm going to try a monoprice premium certified cable next.


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## hifiaudio2

From looking at their site, HDR is the only thing I don't see them claim.... that is unfortunate as my cable is also basically useless. In my new setup I won't really need the length, but I really liked that it totally broke the electrical connection and helped me eliminate a ground loop in my last theater.


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## CraigAmey

weboperations said:


> I just received a 35 foot Celerity cable and it failed to pass a 4k 60hz HDR signal. It behaved no differently than a 25 foot $20 copper cable from Amazon. $250 down the drain basically, since it was a special order non returnable item.
> 
> I'm going to try a monoprice premium certified cable next.


The monoprice CP cables are very good but they only go up to 20ft and mine still produced the occasional white flash. If you only need 4K60 HDR it would be okay since that's only 12-14Gb/s (YUV 420/422 10 bit). RGB is much harder (RGB 444 8 bit, 17.8Gb/s) and the only cable I've personally tested that could do that is the Belden BJC Series-1 25ft ($87 from Amazon).

Others have said the KableDirekt can also do this but I've yet to try one personally, and if you read the reviews on Amazon the people who actually tried 2160p60 RGB 444 said they didn't work even at 20ft. Not totally surprising for a cable that costs less than $20, especially when you consider a $200 Monster cable couldn't do it. 

It seems that there is no magic to be had here, you need a serious fire-hose of a cable to do RGB 444 and anything less you might get lucky but it's a crap-shoot. The BJC Series-1 weighs a ton and doesn't bend well but it has 23.5AWG conductors and it does the job.


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## Paul Arnette

I got the 90 degree HDMI adapter I got from Amazon by Cable Matters seems to be working without a hitch. :fingerscrossed:

I also install the Blue Echo HDMI lock on the AVR HDMI output. That and securing the "fire hose" to the struts has taken all the stress off that input. Nice.

Thanks again, guys!


----------



## rayh271

hi....


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## rayh271

hi guys new to this thread......i have a high end pc with a gtx 1080 ftw gpu connected to a sony 55inc 4k hdr tv (model xd9305)

i am having issues trying to pass a 4k rgb 4:4:4 from my pc to my tv....i have tried lost of high speed hdmi leads to date.....to get this to work but cant

my run from pc to tv is around the 16 ft mark ..........

the closet i got to actually getting this to work was using a hdmi cable from kabel direct...i purchased 2 of there high speed certified cables....the first cable was faulty as i could not even get 1920 x 1080 res....but the second cable on the other hand.....i did briefly manage to get rgb 4:4:4....but my joy was short lived as i noticed the sparkling effect...red flashing pixels across screen...(really noticeable against a black background)....and then i also got picture dropout every 10mins or so for a few secs...so i wouldn't bother with this cables....especially for long runs

(maybe i will have to move the pc closer to tv me thinks to get around this)

i know its because i need a long run 16ft that's causing these issues....but surely in this day and age of tech.....there must be a cable out there thats capable of doing this....most hdmi sellers companies claim there cables are hdmi 2.0 compatible and certified high speed 18 gbits when in fact there not.....and most are only capable of 10.2 gbits (i find this so frustrating that they are allowed market and advertise and sell their cables this way)

as far as im aware there are no such thing as hdmi 2.0/a/b cables..(its the devices which need to be compatible).....hdmi cables are either low speed or high speed and that's it.....

the recommend speed for 4k hdr is18gbits....highest bandwidth cable i have come across is 27gbits from monster....but i have heard these don't even work

i am also aware that 2.1 hdmi is not to far off....maybe this will be the only solution...seen as these will be able to deliver 48gbits

anyway....i came across these cables and wanted to see if anyone has heard or tried these 

certified premium high speed hdmi cables with Ethernet from a company called vanco

will post links at a later date as i have not posted enough posts yet to be able to post the links......

thanks guys for reading

*
*


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## rayh271

CraigAmey said:


> The monoprice CP cables are very good but they only go up to 20ft and mine still produced the occasional white flash. If you only need 4K60 HDR it would be okay since that's only 12-14Gb/s (YUV 420/422 10 bit). RGB is much harder (RGB 444 8 bit, 17.8Gb/s) and the only cable I've personally tested that could do that is the Belden BJC Series-1 25ft ($87 from Amazon).
> 
> Others have said the KableDirekt can also do this but I've yet to try one personally, and if you read the reviews on Amazon the people who actually tried 2160p60 RGB 444 said they didn't work even at 20ft. Not totally surprising for a cable that costs less than $20, especially when you consider a $200 Monster cable couldn't do it.
> 
> It seems that there is no magic to be had here, you need a serious fire-hose of a cable to do RGB 444 and anything less you might get lucky but it's a crap-shoot. The BJC Series-1 weighs a ton and doesn't bend well but it has 23.5AWG conductors and it does the job.


hi.....please read my post about those kabel direct hdmi cables......i bought two 7.5 m cables


----------



## rayh271

you recommend these cables......The BJC Series-1......would like to give them a shot....trouble is im in ireland...and to ship from us prob cost a small fortune?....will check out do....thanks CraigAmey


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## rayh271

here are those links to these vanco cables 
*Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cables with Ethernet*

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_249/Certified-Premium-High-Speed-HDMI-Cables-with-Ethernet_1546


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## doctorwizz

rayh271 said:


> hi.....please read my post about those kabel direct hdmi cables......i bought two 7.5 m cables


KabelDirect pros work up to 20 feet (6.1 meters) max for 4k/60 444. 7.5 meters is 24.6 feet which are too long for 4K. 

Can you get a 6-meter KDPro?


----------



## CraigAmey

rayh271 said:


> here are those links to these vanco cables
> *Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cables with Ethernet*
> 
> http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_249/Certified-Premium-High-Speed-HDMI-Cables-with-Ethernet_1546
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk5hsDJBkVY


Without testing them personally I can't say for sure but their longer cables are 24AWG and they don't make any ridiculous claims like working at > 25ft or passing 27Gb/s so it looks legit. I found the 25ft for sale here http://www.cableorganizer.com/p/vanco-hdmi-4k-cable/ for $64.49. 

It would be nice if you bought this and let us know if it works but if your priority is to get your setup working go with the BJC Series-1. Simply put, it's about the same price, has thicker conductors and has been tested independently and verified to pass RGB 444 at 25ft. The Vanco would probably work but it's an unknown entity, and as we've discovered there are a lot of vendors claiming they can make it work but very few (one IMHO) that can actually pull it off.

If you only need 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable. It has been verified by several people at 2160p60 RGB 444 and only costs $14.99.


----------



## rayh271

CraigAmey said:


> Without testing them personally I can't say for sure but their longer cables are 24AWG and they don't make any ridiculous claims like working at > 25ft or passing 27Gb/s so it looks legit. I found the 25ft for sale here http://www.cableorganizer.com/p/vanco-hdmi-4k-cable/ for $64.49.
> 
> It would be nice if you bought this and let us know if it works but if your priority is to get your setup working go with the BJC Series-1. Simply put, it's about the same price, has thicker conductors and has been tested independently and verified to pass RGB 444 at 25ft. The Vanco would probably work but it's an unknown entity, and as we've discovered there are a lot of vendors claiming they can make it work but very few (one IMHO) that can actually pull it off.
> 
> If you only need 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable. It has been verified by several people at 2160p60 RGB 444 and only costs $14.99.


thanks for your reply......

i chatted with monoprice.....i will paste a copy of the chat here....the agent couldn't or simply just didn't know if cable could do what i asked him.....i dont want to order these cables and have them not work...because as i say im here in Ireland and it would cost me $50 just to ship them to Ireland....which means another $50 to ship them back if don't work.

Brian R: Ray, let me transfer you to our Product Support team to give your accurate information. One moment 
rayh271: ok thanks brian
Ruben T: Thank you for contacting Monoprice. My name is Ruben T. one moment while I review your question
rayh271: yes sure
Ruben T: these would be 18gbps and run [email protected] up to 20 ft
Ruben T: they will also work with hdr and be cl3 rated 
Ruben T: is there anything else I can assist you with today? 
rayh271: i have a high end pc with a gtx 1080 gpu.....and i will be connecting the gpu to my sony 55inch 4k hdr tv 9model xd9305)
Ruben T: this would be able to work No problem. 
Ruben T: it will be HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 compliant so fully updated to run 4k 
Ruben T: is there anything else I can assist you with today? 
rayh271: so i will be able to get rgb full 4:4:4 at 60hz....
Ruben T: it willl support a full [email protected] if you would be referring to the resolution 
Ruben T: Are you still with me? 
rayh271: yes i know they will support 4k at 60hz....most 10.2 cables do....what i am asking is will it support rgb limited/full....which is a slightly higher spec than 4k @ 60hz
Ruben T: if it would be a higher spec than [email protected] then I would have to say that it would not be compatible for your use 
rayh271: rgb full/limited 4:4:4 at 60hz from my gtx 1080 gpu...
Ruben T: I would not have the compatibility for the gtx 1080 gpu I apologize for the inconvenience 
rayh271: im not talking 8k or anything
rayh271: you see i dont want to order these cables all the way from us to ireland....and find out they dont work?
Ruben T: if the specs stated above are not the same as the requirements of you gtx 1080 gpu then I would not be able to say yes or no for I would not know the compatibility of your device and these cables 
rayh271: alot of manufactures are saying there cables can do this....most can say at 3m and under....but just not at that distance of 20ft
Ruben T: the specs that the cable is rated would be the same at 3ft as it would at 20ft for these cables there is no drop in speed at the lengths we sale 

so i dont know what to do now? if amazon uk sold them i would buy them right now....as i could send them back no probs if did not work.....some people say they work.....some say they dont.....i mean they either work or they dont........oooohhhhh...why is this so hard to find cables...in all my days of tech i never experienced anything like it


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## rayh271

doctorwizz said:


> KabelDirect pros work up to 20 feet (6.1 meters) max for 4k/60 444. 7.5 meters is 24.6 feet which are too long for 4K.
> 
> Can you get a 6-meter KDPro?


thanks for your response

kabel direct (is german company) which do sell 5m cables......have you tried these in this 5m or 6m size yourself...and did they work for you....of the 2 7.5m cables i bought one was faulty straight away...could even do 1920 x 1080....but other was passing the rgb 4:4:4 but then failed as i mentioned in previous post

they claim to be certified but .....
i see on the reviews that here hit or miss.....
maybe i will try them again in 5m this time


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## rayh271

i have other so called certified hdmi cables arriving either today or tomorrow...these are all 3m or under....so i will report back my findings on here when test them out....im determined to solve this haha


----------



## CraigAmey

Welcome to our world. There is a reason there is a dedicated thread to this topic. 

The good news is you really don't have too many choices. If you look at it by exclusion the only cables that haven't been demonstrated NOT to work are the Series-1 and the Monoprice CP. My setup seems about as sensitive as anyone's and both those cables worked for me. No question that the Series-1 is the better cable as I was able to run a connector and additional six foot CP cable on the end and still have it work (not true for the 20ft Monoprice CP). 

If all you're doing is running a single 20ft run with no connectors I would be shocked if the Series-1 didn't work. Other posters have used 35ft Series-1 cables and had them pass RGB 444 without a problem. Yes, they cost more and the shipping will be more (due to their weight) but given the difficulty returning it and the cost of shipping just eat the cost and go with the (currently) best known solution. 

And yes, HDMI 2.0b is on the horizon but that's not going to magically make all these cables better, it just means more cables are going to fail.


----------



## doctorwizz

rayh271 said:


> thanks for your response
> 
> kabel direct (is german company) which do sell 5m cables......have you tried these in this 5m or 6m size yourself...and did they work for you....of the 2 7.5m cables i bought one was faulty straight away...could even do 1920 x 1080....but other was passing the rgb 4:4:4 but then failed as i mentioned in previous post
> 
> they claim to be certified but .....
> i see on the reviews that here hit or miss.....
> maybe i will try them again in 5m this time


I have a lot of experience with the KD's. I have 5 of them. From 3 feet to 20 feet. They all pass perfect 444 4K/60 RGB 60Hz with a GTX 980. Properly tested with the "Fox" 444 test. 
Back in Sept 2014, I had the same problem of finding a cable that worked with the newly released 900 Nvidia series. When I purchased a 20ft KDPro, it worked perfectly from PC to TV. 
Since then I have tested the KDPro 15 foot, 10 foot, 6 foot, and 3 foot. All worked to pass 444 at 4K/60


----------



## rayh271

CraigAmey said:


> Welcome to our world. There is a reason there is a dedicated thread to this topic.
> 
> The good news is you really don't have too many choices. If you look at it by exclusion the only cables that haven't been demonstrated NOT to work are the Series-1 and the Monoprice CP. My setup seems about as sensitive as anyone's and both those cables worked for me. No question that the Series-1 is the better cable as I was able to run a connector and additional six foot CP cable on the end and still have it work (not true for the 20ft Monoprice CP).
> 
> If all you're doing is running a single 20ft run with no connectors I would be shocked if the Series-1 didn't work. Other posters have used 35ft Series-1 cables and had them pass RGB 444 without a problem. Yes, they cost more and the shipping will be more (due to their weight) but given the difficulty returning it and the cost of shipping just eat the cost and go with the (currently) best known solution.
> 
> And yes, HDMI 2.0b is on the horizon but that's not going to magically make all these cables better, it just means more cables are going to fail.



might go with that bjc cable......heres an interesting article i came across about hdmi 2.1....release date, according to this article....2.0 devices will be up-gradable to 2.1....(_The new specification will be available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters, and they will be notified when it is released early in Q2 2017) _now that would be good...

if this is true.......what this also means is that new 2.1 cables....will have to be certified to work at 48gbps.....therefore all 1.4, 2.0 compatible cables would be obsolete...for high end users of hdmi bandwidth.......and current manufacturers wont be able to advertise there cables as hdmi 2.1 compatible unless they can do speeds of 48gbps

http://hometheaterreview.com/hdmi-forum-announces-hdmi-21-specification/


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## rayh271

doctorwizz said:


> I have a lot of experience with the KD's. I have 5 of them. From 3 feet to 20 feet. They all pass perfect 444 4K/60 RGB 60Hz with a GTX 980. Properly tested with the "Fox" 444 test.
> Back in Sept 2014, I had the same problem of finding a cable that worked with the newly released 900 Nvidia series. When I purchased a 20ft KDPro, it worked perfectly from PC to TV.
> Since then I have tested the KDPro 15 foot, 10 foot, 6 foot, and 3 foot. All worked to pass 444 at 4K/60


yeah i have used there cables for years on all my old hd gear....and never had any probs.....i might chance getting one 5m cable to try at that lenght?

you mention the fox 444 test? is there a way to test your cables with software.....nvidia told me to use this software to test my display

monitor assist manager


----------



## doctorwizz

rayh271 said:


> yeah i have used there cables for years on all my old hd gear....and never had any probs.....i might chance getting one 5m cable to try at that lenght?
> 
> you mention the fox 444 test? is there a way to test your cables with software.....nvidia told me to use this software to test my display
> 
> monitor assist manager


Fox test is a .png image to quickly tell if you are getting 444. 
You have to be certain that your windows scaling is at 100%, otherwise you can get a false positive. Also, make sure that your image viewer is not scaling the image. 
It is a 720 image

Download it here:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/rl7rfve6zdgqmlg/b4a44044_vbattach208609.png

Read about the test here
http://www.geeks3d.com/20141203/how...-chroma-subsampling-used-with-your-4k-uhd-tv/


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## Ginosius

Thank good I found this thread.
The prolem I have is that the AV-receiver is like 7meters away from the TV.
However the TV is mounted on the wall and the cables going to the TV are in small pipes inside the wall.

Unless I can remove the HDMI cable plug at one of the two ends.. I cannot fit a HDMI kabel into these pipes (due to the plug being too big).
However I'd lke to do 4:4:4 4K 60fps as well (the 18Gbit/s signal).

So are there any hdmi over fiber or ethernet adapters supporing this ?
I already have the cat6 ethernet cables going trough the small pipes but I can also easily go under the floor to push some fiber glass cable into one of the pipes.

Any ideas?


----------



## CraigAmey

Ginosius said:


> Unless I can remove the HDMI cable plug at one of the two ends.. I cannot fit a HDMI kabel into these pipes (due to the plug being too big).
> However I'd lke to do 4:4:4 4K 60fps as well (the 18Gbit/s signal).
> Any ideas?


The problem is that the kind of cables that can run RGB 444 reliably over that distance are as thick as the connector head anyway.


----------



## rayh271

this the response i got from bjc regarding the bjc series-1 cables you suggested

While we cannot promise anything because of it not being Premium Certified, most of our customer base has had success at 20 feet with the Series-1 cable.
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/premium-hdmi-cable.htm

i dont think i will go with them bjc Series-1 cables after the response i had from bjc themselves

bjc honestly say in there response to me....these cables are not premium certified......

i have read on other forums what i want to do is impossible right now with 2.0 spec....because in order to do full 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 10 / 12 bit colour....higher hdmi spec will be required like hdmi 2.0a/b.....or 2.1hdmi

i dismantled my whole setup yesterday and took out all hdmi cables i had in walls which i used for all my old gear (hd only devices no 4k).....from bout 4 years ago.....i then test all the different brand cables i had.....and unbelievably the 3m cablesson prime hdmi has worked at 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 8bit colour.........

4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 8bit colour.......is the absolute limit right now for 2.0hdmi spec.....

2.0a may increase this to 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 10 bit colour......and then 2.1 at 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz 12 bit colour in the future

here is hdmi 2.0 limit chart










*HDMI Versions (1.4, 2.0 and beyond)*

There have been essentially three types of of “4K capable” HDMI chipsets on the market. These have been implemented into various TVs, projectors, processors, AVRs and switchers since the 4K came onto the market in 2013.


HDMI 1.4 chipsets supported data rates up to 10.2Gbps. This means they could do 4K at up to 30 frames per second at the formats supported by the 1.4 standard (8 bit RGB or 4:4:4 and 12 bit 4:2:2). Whilst 1.4 is therefore theoretically 4K capable nearly all components that have it lack HDCP2.2, which is the copy protection scheme the industry has settled on for UHD.
We then saw HDMI 2.0 chipsets that supported the new formats in the 2.0 standard but were still limited to data rates of 10.2Gbps. These new chipsets have HDCP2.2 so they can display some but potentially not all UHD content.
Finally at the end of 2015 we started to see 18Gbps chipsets.
 We’ve summarized this information together with the formats and bandwidth requirements in the table below:










read the full article here


sometimes i think you would need a degree in all this hdmi stuff.....they make it so confusing.....hopefully with these new hdmi 2.1 spec 48gbits cables...all these problems will not exsist

*
*


----------



## rayh271

sorry forgot to include link on last post

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

as you can see from last chart rgb 10 and 12 bit colour....require a higher bandwidth than 18gbps.....so its not possible to do with any hdmi cable on the market now......that is why i will wait for a proper certified hdmi 2.1 48gbps cable.....although my devices wont be 2.1....these cables will be backward compatible with hdmi 2.0....and give us the bandwith we need......so therefore only solution for me....future proof also

(monster claim to have a cable that deos 27gbits but dont no if works....and not willing to try)......as i say i wait for hdmi 2.1 cables...i think this is our only solution.....and also these should be good for long runs too.

i have moved my pc nearer to my tv and will leave it setup like this until 2.1 cables become available around june/july


----------



## CraigAmey

Probably also worth mentioning here that this whole thing is an academic exercise, since humans can't see the difference between RGB 444 and YUV 420 at normal viewing distances. I've done the experiment and I couldn't tell the difference 10ft away from my 65" 4K screen.


----------



## rayh271

CraigAmey said:


> Probably also worth mentioning here that this whole thing is an academic exercise, since humans can't see the difference between RGB 444 and YUV 420 at normal viewing distances. I've done the experiment and I couldn't tell the difference 10ft away from my 65" 4K screen.


yes that true.....your spot on there

the thing is d..... i want my setup to be able to do max possible res and rgb 10/12 bit colour as possible....as this is the way forward for gaming....(imagine 4k rgb @ 120hz 10/12 bit proper hdr gaming from a high end pc....(gtx 1080 gpu can do these 10/12 bit colours).....the only prob that will exist is if your 4k tv has not got a 10/12 bit panel.....some early 4k tvs are only 8bit.....so people with those wont need to upgrade to 2.1 cables....as there tv panels are limited to 8 bit.....my tv is 10 bit....so that's my limit......so i will need these new hdmi 2.1 certified cables to get full potential from my equip......and with that 48gbits high speed bandwidth it will allow us a hell of alot more options.....and future-proof...especially if you are burying your cables under floors, in walls ect.....i don't think i will even put the cables in conduit as these will be future proof for 8k also......thats if i ever go to 8k....which i doubt it haha

so its really all about finding out what your devices like tvs, uhd blu ray players ect can handle......

just one more thing to add regarding hdr.....there are currently 3 out there....with rumors of a 4th on the way....(reminds me of the old vhs v betamax, hd dvd v blu ray)....madness how all manufactures like sony, lg, panasonic....all trying to out do each other constantly every year.........but this is a whole other ball game....dolby are saying that 10 bit panels wont be able to handle dolby vision properly ...(downscale it alright)....and then have to wait for a firmware update for it....that is if sony agrees to pay a licensee fee to use there dolby vision hdr.......sony are banking on there hdr10 as this is free to use and that way they hope to gain market control....sure we wait and see what happens over the next year.......personally dolby vision is the best in my opinion....now why didnt i wait another year before i bought my tv haha....but sure even if i had of waited for a 12bit panel...to get dolby vision...sure sony, lg, pan....will come up with something new or completely different at ces 2018...... to keep there sales going......we will never have the latest tech no matter what devices we buy....as all tech companies just drip feed us the tech....so they can keep lining there pockets for years to come.....simple answer to this is....just set your budget and specs...and thats it.....i think 4k will be the limit for me ....nxt 10 years anyway.....haha


----------



## Ginosius

I see, thanks for all the explanation.

I can wait for the new hdmi 2.1 spec which will require cables to do more than 18gbit/s.
But what about a 5 or 6 meter hdmi cable -with- removable heads that does 4k 60fps @10bit color instead of 12?
That would be 4:4:2 right?

Does such cable exist?


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'and also these should be good for long runs too' -_ all the way out to 2m (6') according to HDMI.org!

Joe


----------



## CraigAmey

Ginosius said:


> I see, thanks for all the explanation.
> 
> I can wait for the new hdmi 2.1 spec which will require cables to do more than 18gbit/s.
> But what about a 5 or 6 meter hdmi cable -with- removable heads that does 4k 60fps @10bit color instead of 12?
> That would be 4:4:2 right?
> 
> Does such cable exist?


10 Bit HDR is always YUV 420 or YUV 422. 4K Blurays are all YUV 420 so that only requires 12Gb/s and most modern cables will do that at that length. I originally put in Monoprice Cabernet 35ft active cables and they handle 12Gb/s fine, only failed when I tried to pass RGB 444. 

There is no such standard as 442 that I know of. 422 is full resolution luminance, full horizontal resolution chrominance, half vertical resolution chrominance. 420 is full, half, half. 444 is typically RGB or YCbCr, whereas 420 and 422 are YUV or YCbCr because it doesn't make any sense to do that with RGB (i.e. Red, Green and Blue at different resolutions). It works for YUV as our eyes have more resolution for Luminance (rods) than Chrominance (cones).


----------



## rayh271

not sure about removable heads on hdmi leads.....but i did see some sort of fibre optic cable for long runs....100m and so on....but i do remember they were very expensive...like $350/400 per roll...if i come across them again i will post them on here

current hdmi leads are very thick....and i only assume these new 2.1 cables will be thicker......maybe some brand manufacturers will take this into consideration.....and try make them as thin as possible....handy for people who have pre-installed conduit in there setups

but as long as these new 2.1cables are certified @ 48gbits.....dont think you will need to replace those for maybe 20 years.....4k, 8k, and possibly 10k.....as i say future proof....so well worth the extra money.....because i guarantee these new cables wont be cheap when first come out......

another thing i was looking into was running the 4k cables over long distance.....using hdmi converters.....and cat 6 cable....

i curentlt have 2x 10m hdmi and 2 x 50 meters of cat 6 cable running from my house all the way to games room at the end of my back garden.......its capable of passing full hd 1080.....this is how i done it

10m hdmi lead....connected from satellite hd box to hdmi converter...(which is in house)....then 2 runs of cat 6 50m cable... running from the converter (the cat 6 cables are buried in pipe under the garden)....then to an other converter..(in games room)...then 10m hdmi lead out from this converter and connected directly to tv.....and all full hd.....this is great for watching sport in games room from the satellite without have to bring it out every time.....i even can switch stations using my iphone,....because i have wi fi out there also

this would be great if it was possible in 4k.....but so far i dont think it is.....think about it if i am using 2 cat 6 for hd.....i would probably need 8 for 4k.....

but you never know could be possible soon


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^^ nobody has seen the new cables that are capable of transmitting HDMI 2.1 signals but they will more than likely be limited to about 6', and be expensive. You will also need hardware that is capable of HDMI 2.1. Some of the protocols in HDMI 2.1 can be handled by the current set of HDMI chipsets but for full HDMI 2.1 compliance newer hardware will probably be necessary. A fiber optic cable with removeabe/upgradeable termination connectors is probably going to be the way to go for long runs, at least for the foreseeable future. Solid core CAT-6a (non-CCS and NOT CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) with HDBT termination is another option. The removable termination is important especially if it is active termination because the chipsets required can be upgraded to handle the error correction, timing, etc necessary for the newer video standards while leaving the cable in place.

All you can do is run your cables in-conduit, with pull strings, so you can easily upgrade your connection options as they become necessary, and they will. Using conduit is really the only way to "future proof" your connectivity. 1080p is not a problem at this point in time with what you have but 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz over about 20' is a problem now and is only going to be more difficult with what HDMI 2.1 promises to offer.


----------



## Joe Fernand

And lets get into the habit of calling them '48G' cables early on and drop the reference to HDMI Version numbers - will save a million and one posts over the next couple of years 

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

Joe


----------



## golffnutt

*4K Cable Issue With New TV, Receiver, and 4K Player*

I am really hoping one or more of you can help me, I am about to pull my hair out. Here's my equipment:

Samsung UN5KS9500F - 65" TV
Denon X6200W Receiver (1 model down form their flagship model) Will pass 4K signal
Oppo 203 4K Player

My problem is this. I have to have a 35' cable run from TV to Receiver. I have purchased the Luxe Series cable from Monoprice for this run as their ad says it will do 4K50hz and 60hz up to 50'. Well unfortunately that's just not true. I can not get more than 4K24hz when playing a 4K movie.

There is a setting on my TV called "HDMI UHD Color". When I turn it on the picture goes out and the audio goes on and off. When I turn it back off, picture returns but only at 4k24hz 8 bits. I can't get 50 or 60hz or 10-12 bits no matter what I do. Is there a cable out there that will work in my situation (35' run)? Please help me if you can, I have run out of things to try. Thank you SO MUCH for your help and advice. Have a wonderful day and evening.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ the simple answer would be, at 35', consider a fiber optic cable (Celerity) and see if that works. Also be mindful of bend radius because you didn't mention if your cable run is basically straight or it's running in-wall.


----------



## Ratman

How long is the cable run from the Oppo to the receiver?
What spec/make/model cable?


----------



## golffnutt

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ the simple answer would be, at 35', consider a fiber optic cable (Celerity) and see if that works. Also be mindful of bend radius because you didn't mention if your cable run is basically straight or it's running in-wall.


Thank you Otto for that info. My run is basically straight under the carpet from TV to Receiver. Only bend is from floor to TV and floor to Receiver. 

Where could I find the Celerity optic cable you recommended? Thanks again for your help.


----------



## golffnutt

Ratman said:


> How long is the cable run from the Oppo to the receiver?
> What spec/make/model cable?


Thank you Ratman for the reply.

6' from Oppo to Receiver. Just bought the best that Monoprice has, the "Ultra Slim Active." series, product ID number, 13590. Suppose to be their best 4K 60hz model cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

golffnutt said:


> Thank you Otto for that info. My run is basically straight under the carpet from TV to Receiver. Only bend is from floor to TV and floor to Receiver.
> 
> Where could I find the Celerity optic cable you recommended? Thanks again for your help.


You can Google Celerity for either their website or vendors who carry them. The cables are not cheap. If you run your cables underneath the carpet I assume you have them placed in an area that is out of the way and not stepped on.


----------



## Ginosius

This hdmi over fibre cable seems to be able to do the full 4K 60FPS @ 4:4:4 with ARC.
http://shop.celeritytek.com/p/ct-fiber-optic-hdmi-60

It's 400 bucks though...


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'It's 400 bucks though...'_ - the Celerity Tech cables are what many folk are using/recommending, the price is what you have to pay if you want to pass the full range signal over a long cable.

Joe


----------



## CraigAmey

golffnutt said:


> Thank you Ratman for the reply.
> 
> 6' from Oppo to Receiver. Just bought the best that Monoprice has, the "Ultra Slim Active." series, product ID number, 13590. Suppose to be their best 4K 60hz model cable.


It sounds like you're trying to run RGB 444 as the Luxe cable should be capable of 4K60 HDR with YUV 420 which is what most movies are formatted in. Check the settings on the Oppo to make sure you're not trying to output RGB 444 (as it's unnecessary here). If that is what you want to do there are a couple of things you need to know.

1. 4K60 HDR is only possible with YUV 420 as RGB 444 10 bit exceeds the HDMI spec. 4K60 HDR (10 bit) YUV 420 required about 12Gb/s and most cables can do that. I use 35ft Cabernet Active cables and they handle it fine.

2. The Ultra Slim Active will not pass 4K60 RGB 444 (17.8Gb/s) even at 6ft, nor will the passive Ultra Slim (I've tried). The only Monoprice cables that will do that are the Certified Premium cables and they'll handle it up to 20ft. 

3. At 35ft your only option for 4K60 RGB 444 is the Belden BJC Series-1 but that cable is thick enough it's going to create a lump under your carpet 

I have a working setup that passes 4K60 RGB 444 through the wall via a 25 ft BJC Series-1 to a RiteAV double sided HDMI wallplate and then to a 5ft Monster Black Platinum. For the short run a Monoprice CP 6ft and Rocketfish 4ft also worked (many tried and failed).


----------



## golffnutt

Ginosius said:


> This hdmi over fibre cable seems to be able to do the full 4K 60FPS @ 4:4:4 with ARC.
> http://shop.celeritytek.com/p/ct-fiber-optic-hdmi-60
> 
> It's 400 bucks though...


Thank you Gino for the reply. It should take me to the moon for that price. This whole 4K subject is making me sick, players not working correctly, no reasonably priced cables to take advantage of the 4K advantages, certain sattellite companies ripping their customers off by offering only 4K channels that are pay per view to watch on TV, one company has 4 each 4K channels, three of which are PPV, just sickening to me, wished I had never bought a new receiver, player, and TV. Guarantee you it won't happen again by this old man.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Early adopter always take a hit in terms of hassle and cost - long HDMI cables were just as costly in the early days of HDMI.

Joe

PS Golf - now there is a low cost hobby!!!


----------



## golffnutt

CraigAmey said:


> It sounds like you're trying to run RGB 444 as the Luxe cable should be capable of 4K60 HDR with YUV 420 which is what most movies are formatted in. Check the settings on the Oppo to make sure you're not trying to output RGB 444 (as it's unnecessary here). If that is what you want to do there are a couple of things you need to know.
> 
> 1. 4K60 HDR is only possible with YUV 420 as RGB 444 10 bit exceeds the HDMI spec. 4K60 HDR (10 bit) YUV 420 required about 12Gb/s and most cables can do that. I use 35ft Cabernet Active cables and they handle it fine.
> 
> 2. The Ultra Slim Active will not pass 4K60 RGB 444 (17.8Gb/s) even at 6ft, nor will the passive Ultra Slim (I've tried). The only Monoprice cables that will do that are the Certified Premium cables and they'll handle it up to 20ft.
> 
> 3. At 35ft your only option for 4K60 RGB 444 is the Belden BJC Series-1 but that cable is thick enough it's going to create a lump under your carpet
> 
> I have a working setup that passes 4K60 RGB 444 through the wall via a 25 ft BJC Series-1 to a RiteAV double sided HDMI wallplate and then to a 5ft Monster Black Platinum. For the short run a Monoprice CP 6ft and Rocketfish 4ft also worked (many tried and failed).


Thanks Craig for that detailed reply. Because of the way my family room is laid out I can not run 4k60 RGB 444 through the wall. I do have 444 turned off on the Oppo and still I can only get 24hz 8 bits. Maybe I need to return my Luxe 35' cable for the 35' Cabernet cables? Also need to return the 6' Ultra Slim Active cables for the Monoprice CP cables right? Will these 2 things help you think? What is YUV420? I am not educated enough on all this stuff to know that unfortunately.


----------



## CraigAmey

golffnutt said:


> Thanks Craig for that detailed reply. Because of the way my family room is laid out I can not run 4k60 RGB 444 through the wall. I do have 444 turned off on the Oppo and still I can only get 24hz 8 bits. Maybe I need to return my Luxe 35' cable for the 35' Cabernet cables? Also need to return the 6' Ultra Slim Active cables for the Monoprice CP cables right? Will these 2 things help you think? What is YUV420? I am not educated enough on all this stuff to know that unfortunately.


Yes, for devices that output RGB 444 (Samsung 4K Bluray player, PS4 Pro) I use 3ft CP cables that I bought to replace 4ft Ultraslim cables. The Ultraslim cables sort of worked but I was getting occasional white flashes. For the Wii U, PS3, Oppo BDP-83 and the X1 I use Ultraslim cables, as those boxes only output 1080p.

YUV420 basically means the color information is displayed at half resolution vertically and horizontally compared to the luminance information. The relevance to cabling is that it reduces the number of pixels that need to be transmitted and as such reduces the required bandwidth. Bluray disks also use this format to reduce the size of the movies on disk. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#Sampling_systems_and_ratios

The relative bandwidth required is proportional to the number of pixels sent. YUV420 = 4 + 2 + 0 = 6 therefore requires half the bandwidth of RGB 444 = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12. HDR requires 10 bits per pixel so requires 10/8 more bandwidth than SDR or regular 8 bit video. The respective bandwidths at 4K60 are shown here.

http://i.imgur.com/lxCMDwG.jpg

2160p60 YUV420 8.91Gb/s
2160p60 YUV420 HDR 11.1Gb/s
2160p60 RGB444 17.8Gb/s

If a newer cable like the Luxe couldn't do 11.1Gb/s I'd return it, it should be able to. Very, very few cables can do 17.8Gb/s even though they all claim to be able to and the longer you need the fewer choices there are. Monoprice Certified Premium are good up to 20ft and they're by far the cheapest out there. Stay away from the premium priced brands (Monster, Audioquest etc. as they are mostly rubbish).

If you really need 35ft I'd definitely try the Cabernet cables as they are relatively inexpensive and I have two running through my walls that pass 11.1Gb/s no problems. They definitely won't work at 17.8Gb/s so I'm using an additional 25ft Belden Series-1 for the main feed from the receiver. 

Someone else posted that they were trying to get a 35ft run to pass RGB 444 and the Belden Series-1 did the trick. That's your last resort because the cable is going to cost you over $100 and it is truly a massive cable.


----------



## golffnutt

Thanks again Craig. I will try to get Monoprice to take the Lux and Ultra Slim cables back and I will order the Cabernet and Premium CL cables and see if that works. Really appreciate your time and feedback on this problem. I will let you and the AVSForum audience if the new cables work better than what I have now.




CraigAmey said:


> Yes, for devices that output RGB 444 (Samsung 4K Bluray player, PS4 Pro) I use 3ft CP cables that I bought to replace 4ft Ultraslim cables. The Ultraslim cables sort of worked but I was getting occasional white flashes. For the Wii U, PS3, Oppo BDP-83 and the X1 I use Ultraslim cables, as those boxes only output 1080p.
> 
> YUV420 basically means the color information is displayed at half resolution vertically and horizontally compared to the luminance information. The relevance to cabling is that it reduces the number of pixels that need to be transmitted and as such reduces the required bandwidth. Bluray disks also use this format to reduce the size of the movies on disk.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#Sampling_systems_and_ratios
> 
> The relative bandwidth required is proportional to the number of pixels sent. YUV420 = 4 + 2 + 0 = 6 therefore requires half the bandwidth of RGB 444 = 4 + 4 + 4 = 12. HDR requires 10 bits per pixel so requires 10/8 more bandwidth than SDR or regular 8 bit video. The respective bandwidths at 4K60 are shown here.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/lxCMDwG.jpg
> 
> 2160p60 YUV420 8.91Gb/s
> 2160p60 YUV420 HDR 11.1Gb/s
> 2160p60 RGB444 17.8Gb/s
> 
> If a newer cable like the Luxe couldn't do 11.1Gb/s I'd return it, it should be able to. Very, very few cables can do 17.8Gb/s even though they all claim to be able to and the longer you need the fewer choices there are. Monoprice Certified Premium are good up to 20ft and they're by far the cheapest out there. Stay away from the premium priced brands (Monster, Audioquest etc. as they are mostly rubbish).
> 
> If you really need 35ft I'd definitely try the Cabernet cables as they are relatively inexpensive and I have two running through my walls that pass 11.1Gb/s no problems. They definitely won't work at 17.8Gb/s so I'm using an additional 25ft Belden Series-1 for the main feed from the receiver.
> 
> Someone else posted that they were trying to get a 35ft run to pass RGB 444 and the Belden Series-1 did the trick. That's your last resort because the cable is going to cost you over $100 and it is truly a massive cable.


----------



## Keith Murray

CraigAmey said:


> It sounds like you're trying to run RGB 444 as the Luxe cable should be capable of 4K60 HDR with YUV 420 which is what most movies are formatted in. Check the settings on the Oppo to make sure you're not trying to output RGB 444 (as it's unnecessary here). If that is what you want to do there are a couple of things you need to know.
> 
> 1. 4K60 HDR is only possible with YUV 420 as RGB 444 10 bit exceeds the HDMI spec. 4K60 HDR (10 bit) YUV 420 required about 12Gb/s and most cables can do that. I use 35ft Cabernet Active cables and they handle it fine.
> 
> 2. The Ultra Slim Active will not pass 4K60 RGB 444 (17.8Gb/s) even at 6ft, nor will the passive Ultra Slim (I've tried). The only Monoprice cables that will do that are the Certified Premium cables and they'll handle it up to 20ft.
> 
> 3. At 35ft your only option for 4K60 RGB 444 is the Belden BJC Series-1 but that cable is thick enough it's going to create a lump under your carpet
> 
> I have a working setup that passes 4K60 RGB 444 through the wall via a 25 ft BJC Series-1 to a RiteAV double sided HDMI wallplate and then to a 5ft Monster Black Platinum. For the short run a Monoprice CP 6ft and Rocketfish 4ft also worked (many tried and failed).


I am having luck with my setup with all Monoprice certified premium cables. I have a PS4 Pro (4k RGB), Samsung UHD player (4k RGB menus, YUV HDR movies), both connected to my Denon 920 with 6' cables.

From the Denon to my JVC 4k projector I have the following: 15' cable -> Blackbird -> 15' cable.

This has been working very reliably with just a few minor hiccups when signal sources change.

Before this, I tried all kinds of things, including Cabernet, Luxe and the slim run optical from Monoprice. None worked (the Luxe was almost usable but a little unsteady).

Your mileage WILL vary and all you can do at this point is experiment. What works for me (and others) may not work for you.

It's been a pretty frustrating ride to get a good 4k signal over distance.

But it's worth it eh?


----------



## golffnutt

Thanks Keith for the reply and info. Couple of quick questions. You stated you are using all Monoprice certified premium cables yet you also say you are using a cable called "Blackbird". I can't find a cable called "Blackbird" on the Monoprice website?

Secondly since the certified premium cables, according to some folks on this forum, are pretty hefty are you having any problem with them weighing down your connections and trying to pull out of the HDMI socket on the back of your components?

I am going to try and return my Ultra Slim cables and purchase the premium cables to the back of my components, short runs, 4-6' before returning my LUX 35" cable. Maybe my short cables are the problem and the LUX is OK. If that doesn't work then I am going to return the LUX and purchase the Cabernet and see if that works as some have suggested here on this forum. At any rate thanks for the info. Glad yours is working good, hopefully I will get there before the end of this year???? 



Keith Murray said:


> I am having luck with my setup with all Monoprice certified premium cables. I have a PS4 Pro (4k RGB), Samsung UHD player (4k RGB menus, YUV HDR movies), both connected to my Denon 920 with 6' cables.
> 
> From the Denon to my JVC 4k projector I have the following: 15' cable -> Blackbird -> 15' cable.
> 
> This has been working very reliably with just a few minor hiccups when signal sources change.
> 
> Before this, I tried all kinds of things, including Cabernet, Luxe and the slim run optical from Monoprice. None worked (the Luxe was almost usable but a little unsteady).
> 
> Your mileage WILL vary and all you can do at this point is experiment. What works for me (and others) may not work for you.
> 
> It's been a pretty frustrating ride to get a good 4k signal over distance.
> 
> But it's worth it eh?


----------



## golffnutt

Joe Fernand said:


> Early adopter always take a hit in terms of hassle and cost - long HDMI cables were just as costly in the early days of HDMI.
> 
> Joe
> 
> PS Golf - now there is a low cost hobby!!!


Much lower than this hobby where equipment is outdated every 6-8 months. I am still hitting 9 year old golf Callaway clubs and still can maintain a single digit handicap which is pretty respectable. I buy Titleist golf balls at Steinmart for $19.97 doz. 6 doz. ($120 per summer is less than the cost of any single 4K player on the market currently) last me an entire summer. I appreciate what you are saying but you can not defend the cost of this hobby, no way, no how, even if buying refurbs and used equipment like I do it is still a very expensive hobby. And believe me before you get on your soap box about the cost of R&D. I have a very good idea of what R&D cost as I am a retired Sales & Marketing Exec who got involved very heavily in R&D, Marketing, and Advertising with my manufacturers on the products that I sold.


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## mr2828

Wrapping up install today of a 100' Celerity cable. Seems solid directly connected with my PS4 Pro and other sources, just had it running for a few hours with no dropouts. Things have been a bit quirky with several cheap 4x2 matrix switches I experimented with. Out of 5 different matrixes, only 1 seems to work reliably. I'm not sure if this is something to do with the Celerity cable, or the fact that these are the cheaper style low-end matrixes (< $100), or with the fact I'm sending to 2 very different displays: 2008-era Pioneer Kuro plasma, and 2016-era Vizio P-series. But this matrix setup is only temporary, I plan to upgrade the old plasma soon to a 4k oled display combined with a modern AVR for handling HDMI switching.


----------



## Keith Murray

golffnutt said:


> Thanks Keith for the reply and info. Couple of quick questions. You stated you are using all Monoprice certified premium cables yet you also say you are using a cable called "Blackbird". I can't find a cable called "Blackbird" on the Monoprice website?
> 
> Secondly since the certified premium cables, according to some folks on this forum, are pretty hefty are you having any problem with them weighing down your connections and trying to pull out of the HDMI socket on the back of your components?
> 
> I am going to try and return my Ultra Slim cables and purchase the premium cables to the back of my components, short runs, 4-6' before returning my LUX 35" cable. Maybe my short cables are the problem and the LUX is OK. If that doesn't work then I am going to return the LUX and purchase the Cabernet and see if that works as some have suggested here on this forum. At any rate thanks for the info. Glad yours is working good, hopefully I will get there before the end of this year????


The Blackbird is a booster from Monoprice. I use it to connect the two 15' cables. This combo has been reliable when no single cable has been. For me at least. 

The monoprice certified cables are a little stiff but not too bad. They seem to have a nice snug fit so I don't foresee any issues. Might be a problem if space is limited. 

Monoprice seems to have a great return policy so that helps when experimenting. 

I did have to replace my short cables. I had a variety and some were ok, others were not. So I just replaced them all. Monoprice certified cables are cheap. 

Good luck!


----------



## Friendlys

CraigAmey said:


> Probably also worth mentioning here that this whole thing is an academic exercise, since humans can't see the difference between RGB 444 and YUV 420 at normal viewing distances. I've done the experiment and I couldn't tell the difference 10ft away from my 65" 4K screen.


I totally agree if video is involved. If you are using your tv as a monitor which I have been doing for almost 15 years, I can see a huge difference at further than 10 feet. My setup is vizio P65, 1080gtx htpc, kids consoles, ect... With 4k or even 1080p the issue is not "blurriness" that some comment on but the increased color from chroma is very evident. Yes, if you look closer text is a bit sharper with 444 vs 420 or 422. I personally sit about 10 to 12 feet from my tv on a couch with an extended keyboard and mouse or xbox 1 controller.


----------



## i_max2k2

Guys, I'm trying to find a 25ft cable that can do 18gbps, it seems there are few options for someone on a budget, which cables are these and for 20ft 18gbps. I'm guessing most cables will do 12gbps. The initial try I did using a 25ft cable would do 30ghz @4k 444. But couldn't do 60hz at that, reading above it seems 420 @ 60hz takes no more then 12gb even with HDR, I'll give that a try using the cable I have. But Still wanted to see if there was an affordable 20/25ft cable option for passing 4k/[email protected] from a pc. Since I can return the cable I have and might as well get something within that range that works full speed.

Thank you!


----------



## Otto Pylot

There are no guarantees for anything above about 20', with the exception possibly of a fiber optic cable, for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Some work, some don't, regardless of mfr or packaging claims. It's all trial and error with the exception of the fiber optic cable.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> There are no guarantees for anything above about 20', with the exception possibly of a fiber optic cable, for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Some work, some don't, regardless of mfr or packaging claims. It's all trial and error with the exception of the fiber optic cable.


This post should be a "sticky" thread.


----------



## CraigAmey

i_max2k2 said:


> Guys, I'm trying to find a 25ft cable that can do 18gbps, it seems there are few options for someone on a budget, which cables are these and for 20ft 18gbps. I'm guessing most cables will do 12gbps. The initial try I did using a 25ft cable would do 30ghz @4k 444. But couldn't do 60hz at that, reading above it seems 420 @ 60hz takes no more then 12gb even with HDR, I'll give that a try using the cable I have. But Still wanted to see if there was an affordable 20/25ft cable option for passing 4k/[email protected] from a pc. Since I can return the cable I have and might as well get something within that range that works full speed.
> 
> Thank you!


The Monoprice Certified Premium 20ft will probably do that and it's pretty cheap (< $20). If that doesn't work a 20ft BJC Series-1 is your next option at around $87 from Amazon. Any longer than that and you're limited to the BJC Series-1, which people have tested up to 35ft (I'm running 25ft + connector + 5ft Monster Black Platinum).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> This post should be a "sticky" thread.


You're assuming that folks read the "stickies" before posting....


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> You're assuming that folks read the "stickies" before posting....


No one reads the stickies before posting! 

Stickies! We don't read no stinkin' stickies! Ha-ha-ha!!!!

I just thought it was funny. These continuing HDMI and distance questions are like a skipping 45 record (or a CD with a dab of peanut butter).


----------



## i_max2k2

Otto Pylot said:


> There are no guarantees for anything above about 20', with the exception possibly of a fiber optic cable, for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Some work, some don't, regardless of mfr or packaging claims. It's all trial and error with the exception of the fiber optic cable.


From reading a little bit, the chances of finding 18gbps in lengths longer then 15-20ft is using a thicker/ good AWG rated cable. Seems like some people have had success when the 25ft cable was 26awg or better. I'm gonna order one and see post the result. Unfortunately the pluglug cable is not available from Amazon right now. I'm ordering this 26 awg cable and will post results.

Btw for 90/270 degree adaptors, does it make any difference, or are there any which definitely do 18gps, I'm getting these hopefully will work with the cable.

Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

i_max2k2 said:


> From reading a little bit, the chances of finding 18gbps in lengths longer then 15-20ft is using a thicker/ good AWG rated cable. Seems like some people have had success when the 25ft cable was 26awg or better. I'm gonna order one and see post the result. Unfortunately the pluglug cable is not available from Amazon right now. I'm ordering this 26 awg cable and will post results.
> 
> Btw for 90/270 degree adaptors, does it make any difference, or are there any which definitely do 18gps, I'm getting these hopefully will work with the cable.
> 
> Thanks


The cable you reference is all marketing b.s. They may work but only because the gauge is so thick. All the other stuff is just regurgitated HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. Gold plating and oxygen-free copper means nothing. The cable states 18Gbps but how did they determine that? And did they determine that at all the lengths they offer? Thicker gauge cables are good and a bit more reliable but you lose flexibility and increase the strain on the inputs. Bend radius also becomes important for the thicker gauge cables. No hardware mfr is going to guarantee a sustainable 18Gbps unless they have some sort of certification process involved and they can offer you proof of said certification. Even then, that's not 100% guaranteed. Good luck. I hope they work for you. All you can do is try.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> No one reads the stickies before posting!
> 
> Stickies! We don't read no stinkin' stickies! Ha-ha-ha!!!!
> 
> I just thought it was funny. These continuing HDMI and distance questions are like a skipping 45 record (or a CD with a dab of peanut butter).


  I thought about the Sierra Madre reference but refrained from posting. Good choice! Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.......


----------



## CraigAmey

i_max2k2 said:


> I'm ordering this 26 awg cable and will post results.


Not a chance in hell that's going to pass at 18Gb/s.


----------



## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> I thought about the Sierra Madre reference but refrained from posting. Good choice! Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.......


Actually that was a Blazing Saddles reference. Sierra Madre he said "I don't have to show you any stinking badges."


----------



## i_max2k2

Otto Pylot said:


> i_max2k2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> From reading a little bit, the chances of finding 18gbps in lengths longer then 15-20ft is using a thicker/ good AWG rated cable. Seems like some people have had success when the 25ft cable was 26awg or better. I'm gonna order one and see post the result. Unfortunately the pluglug cable is not available from Amazon right now. I'm ordering this 26 awg cable and will post results.
> 
> Btw for 90/270 degree adaptors, does it make any difference, or are there any which definitely do 18gps, I'm getting these hopefully will work with the cable.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> The cable you reference is all marketing b.s. They may work but only because the gauge is so thick. All the other stuff is just regurgitated HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. Gold plating and oxygen-free copper means nothing. The cable states 18Gbps but how did they determine that? And did they determine that at all the lengths they offer? Thicker gauge cables are good and a bit more reliable but you lose flexibility and increase the strain on the inputs. Bend radius also becomes important for the thicker gauge cables. No hardware mfr is going to guarantee a sustainable 18Gbps unless they have some sort of certification process involved and they can offer you proof of said certification. Even then, that's not 100% guaranteed. Good luck. I hope they work for you. All you can do is try.
Click to expand...




CraigAmey said:


> i_max2k2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm ordering this 26 awg cable and will post results.
> 
> 
> 
> Not a chance in hell that's going to pass at 18Gb/s.
Click to expand...

I understand the marketing stuff there, the only reason I ordered is because it's 26awg, seems like people who had success has a thick cable around that. Lets see, defective amazon stuff is free returns, and so it will be if it doesn't get me the speed. I almost ordered the Monoprice premium but its 20ft and if this doesn't work, I'll get the blue jean s1 for 50ft. I could use it push through electrical out let. I'll post results.


----------



## Ratman

CraigAmey said:


> Actually that was a Blazing Saddles reference.


 It was meant as an attempt at levity and perhaps an homage to both/either films.


----------



## CraigAmey

Ratman said:


> It was meant as an attempt at levity and perhaps an homage to both/either films.


And a very funny film it was (Blazing Saddles that is). Often misquoted but the Blazing Saddles is clearly a parody on the Gold Hat line from Sierra Madre. Sad that there is no way they could make a film like that anymore, just too politically incorrect.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CraigAmey said:


> Actually that was a Blazing Saddles reference. Sierra Madre he said "I don't have to show you any stinking badges."


I think you missed it. Treasure of the Sierra Madre is the original. Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies but we were referencing the original, as we old folks do.


----------



## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> I think you missed it. Treasure of the Sierra Madre is the original. Blazing Saddles is one of my favorite movies but we were referencing the original, as we old folks do.


Well I'm not that young but Treasure of the Sierra Madre was 1948 so you'd have to be pushing 90 to have seen it first run. As I pointed out previously, the quote did originate in that film but was parodied in Blazing Saddles. The quote most people know and repeat is "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges." (Mexican Bandit) and that is what was parodied above. 

See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0040897/trivia?tab=qt&ref_=tt_trv_qu and
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/trivia?tab=qt&ref_=tt_trv_qu

That quote however is from Blazing Saddles, not The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. In the latter film Gold Hat says, "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.". So you see he never actually said "We don't need no stinking badges.", that line is only found in Blazing Saddles.


----------



## Ratman

Great. 
We don't need no more stinkin' discussion. 

Sorry I made the post!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Great.
> We don't need no more stinkin' discussion.
> 
> Sorry I made the post!


Both movies are on my all-time favorite list so no problem. It is silly to argue about tho. I thought your post was funny and had the same thought myself, but you beat me to it.


----------



## ATCNastyNate

I bought this cable off of Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HI6PCCO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Optic HDMI. Runs perfectly with HDR. All boxes checked green on XBOX ONE S. 50ft. No problems.

I also ordered this cable.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HI6PCCO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Works perfectly as well. All boxes are checked on my XBOX ONE S. I had both HDMI cables installed, just to have 1 as a backup in case 1 of them fails.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Laserion

Is there any user experince for this cable yet?

http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6852

Fiber optic, 66ft and it's much cheaper than Celerity?


----------



## rayh271

Laserion said:


> Is there any user experince for this cable yet?
> 
> http://www.mycablemart.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6852
> 
> Fiber optic, 66ft and it's much cheaper than Celerity?


guys...i cant understand why these cables are so expensive.......and anyway if i were you if i was spending this kind of money on high speed hdmi cables.....i would want them to be 2.1 spec...(thats 48 gbits).....so anything in years to come would work fine including 8k....

these 2.1 hdmi spec cables should be on the market soon (and sneaky hdmi manufacturers will not be able to claim there cables are 2.1 when there not.....as according to HDMI.org......these new cables will have to be certified to say that they are in fact 48 gbits) 
manufactures can currently say legally that there cables are hdmi 2.1 compatible.....(they are only compatible, just like any hdmi cable out there is hdmi 2.1 compatible.....a hdmi lead is a hdmi lead....that's whats confusing for people....there is no such thing as a hdmi 2.0 cable.....there are simply 2 different hdmi speeds.....cables that do 10.2 gbits and certified cables that do 17.8 gbits......its your devices that carry the hdmi spec not the cables

most new tech will have hdmi 2.1 spec and therefore require higher bandwith cables....hence new 2.1 high speed cables

for example i want to run my high end pc which has a gtx 1080 gpu in it....to my 4k hdr tv.....rgb 4:4:4 @60hz....10bit colour.....the absolute minimum i require for this is 18 gbits....and i can tell you right now i have tried lots of different so called 18gits cables....all were no good....and if your run is longer than about 10ft....you have no chance of achieving this......(the cables you have....say 22.0 gbits....i would say this is not true.....have you been able to test these said cables at there maximum bandwidth.....like rgb 4:4:4 @60hz....10bit colour

would love to know the results if you can...thanks

i think these new cables should just be called simply 48gbits high speed cables....to stop all the confusion...as suggested on here in earlier posts by members

also the above cables will come down in price when new cables are released...so i would wait for a while before purchasing them


----------



## CraigAmey

rayh271 said:


> guys...i cant understand why these cables are so expensive.......and anyway if i were you if i was spending this kind of money on high speed hdmi cables.....i would want them to be 2.1 spec...(thats 48 gbits).....so anything in years to come would work fine including 8k....
> 
> these 2.1 hdmi spec cables should be on the market soon (and sneaky hdmi manufacturers will not be able to claim there cables are 2.1 when there not.....as according to HDMI.org......these new cables will have to be certified to say that they are in fact 48 gbits)
> manufactures can currently say legally that there cables are hdmi 2.1 compatible.....(they are only compatible, just like any hdmi cable out there is hdmi 2.1 compatible.....a hdmi lead is a hdmi lead....that's whats confusing for people....there is no such thing as a hdmi 2.0 cable.....there are simply 2 different hdmi speeds.....cables that do 10.2 gbits and certified cables that do 17.8 gbits......its your devices that carry the hdmi spec not the cables
> 
> most new tech will have hdmi 2.1 spec and therefore require higher bandwith cables....hence new 2.1 high speed cables
> 
> for example i want to run my high end pc which has a gtx 1080 gpu in it....to my 4k hdr tv.....rgb 4:4:4 @60hz....10bit colour.....the absolute minimum i require for this is 18 gbits....and i can tell you right now i have tried lots of different so called 18gits cables....all were no good....and if your run is longer than about 10ft....you have no chance of achieving this......(the cables you have....say 22.0 gbits....i would say this is not true.....have you been able to test these said cables at there maximum bandwidth.....like rgb 4:4:4 @60hz....10bit colour
> 
> would love to know the results if you can...thanks
> 
> i think these new cables should just be called simply 48gbits high speed cables....to stop all the confusion...as suggested on here in earlier posts by members
> 
> also the above cables will come down in price when new cables are released...so i would wait for a while before purchasing them


In a way you've answered your own question. They're just cables and you can't assign a bandwidth to a cable without considering the transceivers being used. The best passive cable out there right now, the Belden BJC Series-1 has been around since long before 4K and was originally certified for HDMI 1.2. Look at the date on the certification here https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Cable-Belden-Bonded-Pair-Black/dp/B001LGBTPM. In 2007 1080p was only just starting to appear. 

The point is that the cables are the same cables we've always used, some are better than others but ultimately it's the transceivers that really make the difference. HDMI 2.1 will likely have better transceivers that can transmit 48Gb/s over higher quality cables. We're not going to suddenly see an influx of new cables that can magically defy the laws of physics and transmit 48Gb/s using the older transceivers, we're going to be using the same cables we're using now. 

That also explains why the fiber optic cables are so expensive. It's not the cable you're paying for, it's the high speed transceiver electronics at each end. You can do as much as 43Tb/s (43000Gb/s) on fiber provided you have the right transceivers so the limitation is going to be the transceivers for the foreseeable future. Copper cables seem to be pretty much maxed out at 18Gb/s (6Gb/s per conductor) so it's likely that the next generation and beyond will be entirely fiber optic based. We've come a long way since I started in the industry when running 4.2Mb/s over dual differential coaxial cables was considered state of the art but the number of companies failing to live up to even their claimed specs is a strong indicator that we've hit the wall. 

I see a future where my grandchildren will be running Terabit/s connections wirelessly using quantum entanglement.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I too prefer the term "48Gbps cable" to separate them from the current passive/active HDMI cables. Certification is a good thing but it is pretty much useless unless ALL cable mfrs follow the same certification protocols such as the one created by HDMI.org (Premium High Speed HDMI certified by an Authorized Testing Center). However, once the magical 48Gbps cables are available you will see all kinds of claims like you do now like with "up to 18Gbps" marketing b.s., but there is no industry standard that requires that cables be certified via a universal protocol so just about any claim can be made by a mfr that their cables are "certified". Certification by HDMI.org protocols comes with a price and that's why a lot of cable mfrs do not participate and instead have their own certification program which can be just about anything. I'm not too excited about HDMI 2.1 at this point in time because to take advantage of the full benefits of what HDMI 2.1 can offer, you will need new hardware, and of course source material as well.

Distance will always be an issue, like it is now for 4:4:4 @60Hz. If your HTS devices are within about 10' of each other, then the magical 48Gbps cables may work ok but my prediction is that we will have the same sort of issues that we are having now at distances longer than about 20' - 25'. Certainly something to keep an eye on but nothing to write home about. Fiber optic will be the way to go now and probably in the future as well, unless the copper cable is 20AWG


----------



## rayh271

CraigAmey said:


> In a way you've answered your own question. They're just cables and you can't assign a bandwidth to a cable without considering the transceivers being used. The best passive cable out there right now, the Belden BJC Series-1 has been around since long before 4K and was originally certified for HDMI 1.2. Look at the date on the certification here https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Cable-Belden-Bonded-Pair-Black/dp/B001LGBTPM. In 2007 1080p was only just starting to appear.
> 
> The point is that the cables are the same cables we've always used, some are better than others but ultimately it's the transceivers that really make the difference. HDMI 2.1 will likely have better transceivers that can transmit 48Gb/s over higher quality cables. We're not going to suddenly see an influx of new cables that can magically defy the laws of physics and transmit 48Gb/s using the older transceivers, we're going to be using the same cables we're using now.
> 
> That also explains why the fiber optic cables are so expensive. It's not the cable you're paying for, it's the high speed transceiver electronics at each end. You can do as much as 43Tb/s (43000Gb/s) on fiber provided you have the right transceivers so the limitation is going to be the transceivers for the foreseeable future. Copper cables seem to be pretty much maxed out at 18Gb/s (6Gb/s per conductor) so it's likely that the next generation and beyond will be entirely fiber optic based. We've come a long way since I started in the industry when running 4.2Mb/s over dual differential coaxial cables was considered state of the art but the number of companies failing to live up to even their claimed specs is a strong indicator that we've hit the wall.
> 
> I see a future where my grandchildren will be running Terabit/s connections wirelessly using quantum entanglement.


yeah fiber optic looks the way forward.....but this new 2.1 spec will be awesome for gamers....120hz 4k gaming is on the way.....as i say i will be using my pc to play all of my hdr blu ray content......, (when ultra hd drives become available for pc)....i also have my pc connected up to my 11.2 home cinema setup.....although these new 2.1 cables wont be for every one.....i will certainly need them......whats the point in having all top end tech equip....only to be limited by slow speed hdmi........check this link out from linus tech about hdmi 2.1






the only problem i have now is i have to move the pc closer to screen and av receiver......to limit my runs....as i think the distance will still be a problem even with these new 2.1cables......according to hdmi.org they say 2.1 will use the same connection as previous hdmi....surely someone somewhere can come up with a solution that doesnt limit the length of the new 2.1 cables......we are in 2017 for godssake.....maybe the inventors of this new tech don't realize there is a serious market for this solution.....and i tell you if some manufacturer can solve it.....they would be worth a fortune.....i already know 10 of my friends who have same problem as me...most people have there pc on or under there desks and and have there tvs on other side of room which thhey also use as gaming monitors.....

hopefully over the coming year...this will all be solved........

or guess what you never know hdmi could/will be a thing of the past if they dont/cant utilise new tech????????


----------



## Otto Pylot

rayh271 said:


> hopefully over the coming year...this will all be solved........
> 
> or guess what you never know hdmi could/will be a thing of the past if they dont/cant utilise new tech????????


HDMI 2.1, and the associated magical 48Gbps cable, won't be realized until late this year and probably next year. Some mfrs may offer some sort of firmware upgrade to their HDMI 2.0a chipsets but it won't make the chips fully compliant with all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer. That will more than likely require a hardware upgrade. You will still be limited by distance. Just look at the issues that folks are having trying to get reliable 18Gbps at distances over 20'.


----------



## rayh271

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI 2.1, and the associated magical 48Gbps cable, won't be realized until late this year and probably next year. Some mfrs may offer some sort of firmware upgrade to their HDMI 2.0a chipsets but it won't make the chips fully compliant with all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer. That will more than likely require a hardware upgrade. You will still be limited by distance. Just look at the issues that folks are having trying to get reliable 18Gbps at distances over 20'.


yeah....(its not very clear if its possible to do firmware upgrade from 2.0a/b to 2.1) but heres hoping........

you would think in today's world of tech.....they would invent some sort of cable with the ability to do long runs......(and not at a $400/500 mark either)....fair enough i would pay a premium for the cable but not at that price point, no cable is worth that kind of money....like the cable is actually dearer than the device.....haha.....thats like telling a ferrari owner.....that the petrol to run it will cost more 

because whats the point of all this new tech.....if it cant be utilized over long runs

especially for the pc enthusiasts.....as i don't know anybody who puts there pc under or near there tv

look at these joke cables costing $1000 and not better than another hdmi lead.....






this hdmi overpriced scam/rip off by manufactures is an absolute disgrace


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I agree. The market knows that folks want to have the latest and greatest, and use their big new fancy 4k tv's as huge monitors that they can connect their pimped out PC's to, and that's fine. But what they failed to recognize is the connection technology, which is far behind the video technology, whether it be television related or video card related. They know that most folks will buy into the hype and marketing b.s. of their cables and spend all kinds of money believing in what they are purchasing. Even with the return rate for the cables, the mfrs and dealers are still making money off of people so it's a win-win situation for them.


----------



## BrandonJF

I finally tried a 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP certified combo and thought I was going to pull it off. It's just not going to happen, though. This is my second attempt at the Blackbird and it just doesn't seem to do what they claim for me. I tried going directly from the Oppo 203 to a JVS RS500. I did get a handshake twice. Once I got the handshake, I was able to get 4K60 4:4:4 to the projector. If I turned off the Oppo and turned it back on, I would be out of luck again. It was obvious it was not going to be reliable. I have no idea what would make it "work". I had better luck with the PS4 Pro. For the most part, I was just trying to get the same signal I can get now with a 30ft Cabernet to start. Most of the time, this configuration failed. I couldn't reproduce my current results with the Oppo most of the time, but the PS4 Pro was able to output full 4K60 RGB consistently. Of course, as soon as I wasn't going direct from the PS4 and went from my receiver (Yamaha Aventage 3050), I lost it.

Edit - I forgot I had a 10' MP Certified cable that I didn't bother returning since the return shipping was almost as much as the cable... I tried it in place of one of the 15' cables and had the same results.... but, after unplugging/plugging-in the cable to the blackbird repeatedly, I finally got an HDMI handshake and was passing 4K60 4:4:4 from my Oppo 203 through the receiver and then to the projector. That was a first. I put the 15' MP certified cable in the chain and did the same thing, I was eventually successful. It's too bad - I was glad to at least see it's _possible_ since I've never been this far before, but repeatedly unplugging/plugging-in cables every time I want to use a 4K source obviously isn't an option. If I switch inputs, I can't go back to the input I was just using without starting the whole unplugging/plugging-in game again. IMO, the Blackbird has to not be doing something great. I've had 25ft working before with a passive cable. You'd think a 15ft + 10ft cable could reproduce the same results successfully if the Blackbird was working correctly. I've tried a 15ft + Blackbird + 6ft combination and couldn't get it to work - the 6ft cable was an active Luxe cable, though. Anytime I put it in the chain, nothing works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ an ATC certified cable is fine, but once you put a connector between it and the sink, there are no guarantees. Your best bet is a single cable, probably something like an optical cable. But even that is not guaranteed depending on how you have it setup, the cable path, bend radius, etc etc etc.


----------



## CraigAmey

BrandonJF said:


> I finally tried a 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP certified combo and thought I was going to pull it off. It's just not going to happen, though. This is my second attempt at the Blackbird and it just doesn't seem to do what they claim for me.


This matches my experience with the Blackbird. I had better luck with a passive connector than their active solution. I contacted Monoprice and they just refunded my purchase price and I threw it away. 

Reading one of the other threads where someone did extensive testing their results were similar to mine, i.e. the monoprice CP cables were good to 20ft and the Belden Series-1 was good for 30ft+. Interestingly they also tested Audioquest cables and found that most failed but the Carbon series worked at 30ft+. Still not much competition for the BJC given that the Series-1 costs around $100 and the Carbon nearly $900.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Originally Posted by rayh271:

_'because whats the point of all this new tech.....if it cant be utilized over long runs'._

The HDMI Forum have indicated that the standard length for a copper 48G cable will be 2m - that is the length of the vast majority of installed cables.

As ever 'our' little bit of the market will have to come up with solutions which sell in relatively low volume numbers.

Joe


----------



## Jonas2

I currently have the Belden Premium Certifieds, but last weekend had to reroute some things, including HDMI cables, and situation now is that the stiffness/stout build of these cables is not working in my favor. I've seen a few similar complaints on the Monoprice certified cables - stiff! Where should I be looking for Certified, but more flexible? Or I guess Certified is nice, but not a requirement - so long as it is the 4K 4:4:4 60Hz capable. Was thinking about the Monoprice that's 2.5 x as expensive as the certified ones, that are not certified but claim to meet the specs. 

No long runs, looking for 6 foot cables. Longest run is 11 feet: 5 feet to pre-pro (already a certified cable), then need to more flexible 6-footers from pre-pro to TV.....


----------



## 65Goat

Jonas2 said:


> I currently have the Belden Premium Certifieds, but last weekend had to reroute some things, including HDMI cables, and situation now is that the stiffness/stout build of these cables is not working in my favor. I've seen a few similar complaints on the Monoprice certified cables - stiff! Where should I be looking for Certified, but more flexible? Or I guess Certified is nice, but not a requirement - so long as it is the 4K 4:4:4 60Hz capable. Was thinking about the Monoprice that's 2.5 x as expensive as the certified ones, that are not certified but claim to meet the specs.
> 
> No long runs, looking for 6 foot cables. Longest run is 11 feet: 5 feet to pre-pro (already a certified cable), then need to more flexible 6-footers from pre-pro to TV.....


You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.

http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_249/Certified-Premium-High-Speed-HDMI-Cables-with-Ethernet_1546


----------



## Jonas2

65Goat said:


> You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.
> 
> http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_249/Certified-Premium-High-Speed-HDMI-Cables-with-Ethernet_1546


Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?


----------



## CraigAmey

Jonas2 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?


I'd go with this Rocketfish one. More expensive than the Monoprice but definitely more flexible, and the 4ft version I tested was one of the few cables able to pass RGB444 when combined with a 25ft BJC and a female-female HDMI connector, so a single 6ft should have no trouble. 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfish-6-4k-ultrahd-hdmi-cable-black/5405200.p?skuId=5405200


----------



## Otto Pylot

RocketFish = Monster, imo.


----------



## Jonas2

CraigAmey said:


> I'd go with this Rocketfish one. More expensive than the Monoprice but definitely more flexible, and the 4ft version I tested was one of the few cables able to pass RGB444 when combined with a 25ft BJC and a female-female HDMI connector, so a single 6ft should have no trouble.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfish-6-4k-ultrahd-hdmi-cable-black/5405200.p?skuId=5405200





Otto Pylot said:


> RocketFish = Monster, imo.


Good to know. The Beldens weren't cheap, but not too expensive. This one is more, but I only need one, maybe two. So wouldn't break the bank if it provides the flex. I'm looking for. 

That connector end looks asymmetrically thick though - don't know if it'd fit it on my set! But I've got a local BestBuy, and they've got my set, so I should be able to compare on-site.


----------



## 65Goat

Jonas2 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! Are they pretty flexible? Not too stiff?


Very flexible. I have been a long time user of the Mediabridge cables, and the Vanco are just as flexible (cables are the same thickness).


----------



## Keith Murray

BrandonJF said:


> I finally tried a 15' MP Certified -> Blackbird -> 15' MP certified combo and thought I was going to pull it off. It's just not going to happen, though.


Bummer it's not working for you. I'm using this configuration from my Denon 920 to my JVC RS projector and it's working reliably. I use 6' MP cert cables between PS4P, Samsung UHD and other things and the Denon AVR.

It's just crazy how variable everyone's results are. So frustrating.

I'm just waiting for it to stop working for me, probably about when I pull it through the wall...


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## CraigAmey

Otto Pylot said:


> RocketFish = Monster, imo.


Well I tried the 5ft Monster Black Platinum alongside the 4ft Rocketfish and they both worked but definitely not the same cable. The Monster was much stiffer and thicker and had a more positive lock on insertion. I ended up keeping the Monster and returning the Rocketfish but in retrospect they're probably as good as each other and the Rocketfish is half the price. (Note that the $5 Monoprice 6ft CP cable also worked but the $24 Belden FE failed as did the $150 Audioquest).


----------



## Jonas2

Is it just me, or is HDMI just kind of a bad design? I know it's got its merits, but the inconsistencies seem to be, well, something not good....


----------



## rayh271

65Goat said:


> You might want to give these a try. While more expensive than Monoprice or BJC, they are availble in varoius lengths thru Amazon. Here is a link to their web site where you will see in the photos that they are Premium Certified. I purchased a 10 footer myself and am having zero issues. Disclaimer - I do not yet have a 4K television.
> 
> http://www.vanco1.com/catalog/HDMI_249/Certified-Premium-High-Speed-HDMI-Cables-with-Ethernet_1546


i posted a link on here about these cables, but never tried them............but you say you have purchased a 10 ft cable......and you claim these cables will work ....im not trying to be rude or anything.......yes of course they will work just like any 10 foot hdmi cables will work.....but will they do rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz....

you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???


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## CraigAmey

rayh271 said:


> you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???


Agreed. The only people who should be posting recommendations (for or against) on this thread are people who have personally tested the cable at 2160p60 RGB444 or YCbCr444, i.e. the full 18Gb/s bandwidth. More specifically if someone is looking for a 50ft+ run the fact that you were able to get stable signal over a 1ft cable isn't much value as we all know by now that the likelihood of it working decreases exponentially once you go over about 15ft. 

Specs and even certification to some degree are no indicator of success, nor is price. Real world tests are the only thing that has proven reliable and even there different people using the same cables don't always see the same result. For example ...

Belden Series-1 seems to be the best performing cable out there but is only certified at HDMI 1.2
Audioquest cables cost like sin and don't start working at length until you're in the $1000 price range. 
Monoprice CP cables are cheap as chips and work amazingly well. 
Monster Black Platinum has specs and eye patterns all over the package showing 27Gb/s performance but in the real world couldn't even pass 18Gb/s reliably. 
Belden FE cables are certifed premium but were outperformed by Monoprice cables at 1/5 the price.


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## Jonas2

CraigAmey said:


> Monoprice CP cables are cheap as chips and work amazingly well.


I'm kinda leaning in this direction, stupid-cheap , but I am concerned about the stiffness being reported. Also wondering about the MP Ultra-slim series, they've got one not certified premium, but supposedly has the "needed" specs, and interestingly a lot more expensive than their own CP cables. Not sure what gives with that! I guess because it is an active cable, which I'm a bit leary of at such a short run....


----------



## 65Goat

rayh271 said:


> i posted a link on here about these cables, but never tried them............but you say you have purchased a 10 ft cable......and you claim these cables will work ....im not trying to be rude or anything.......yes of course they will work just like any 10 foot hdmi cables will work.....but will they do rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz....
> 
> you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???


I may have learned about this manufacturer and their cables as a result of your post on this thread previously. The reason for my post to advise the other person is because I see many people posting and asking questions about cables and I was just trying to offer an alternative. You are correct - I do not have a 4K TV (as I stated), but the rest of my equipment is 4K capable and I am in the process of updating my cables so that I will be ready when I do make that purchase. It seems that from all of the threads that I read on here the consensus seems to be that the cables need to be "Premium Certified" in order to pass a 4K signal. I was simply trying to offer an alternative for a fellow poster. It is up to him (or you) to do the proper due diligence to insure that the cable meets their needs. I made no claims as to 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 and I made it clear that I did not have 4K. 

Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.


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## davisnub

the only luck I had with my set-up:

source - marantz 7702mk2 - JVC RS500

was to install a short mp certified cable - blackbird 4k booster - blujeans series 1 hdmi cable at 35ft. Then, I have to make sure the preamp powers on BEFORE the projector. I haven't tried switching sources yet (I currently only have on source device)


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## rayh271

what you guys reckon is the best premium high-speed hdmi cables..... outhere at the moment....that are capable of full 18Gb/s) ...i have cut down my run to under 12 ft in total.....2 6ft cables will be required.....6ft from pc to av receiver.....then 6ft from av receiver to the tv

im looking to get this res....rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz........

my setup is.....a pc with a (gtx1080) gpu in it.....to my av receiver (denon avr x6300h)....then out to 4k hdr tv (sony xd9305).....all hdmi ports on my devices are 2.0hdmi spec

thanks in advance for any help
*
*


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## Jonas2

65Goat said:


> Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.


I'm sorry you feel that way, and being the one who asked the original question - I do appreciate the response!


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## rayh271

65Goat said:


> I may have learned about this manufacturer and their cables as a result of your post on this thread previously. The reason for my post to advise the other person is because I see many people posting and asking questions about cables and I was just trying to offer an alternative. You are correct - I do not have a 4K TV (as I stated), but the rest of my equipment is 4K capable and I am in the process of updating my cables so that I will be ready when I do make that purchase. It seems that from all of the threads that I read on here the consensus seems to be that the cables need to be "Premium Certified" in order to pass a 4K signal. I was simply trying to offer an alternative for a fellow poster. It is up to him (or you) to do the proper due diligence to insure that the cable meets their needs. I made no claims as to 4:4:4 or 4:2:0 and I made it clear that I did not have 4K.
> 
> Why do I feel like it's the Spanish inquisition here when someone offers an alternative? All I was trying to do was help another poster out. If it were me who had asked for some help with cable selection, I would have been appreciative for the feedback and would have purchased one of the cables recommended and tested it. Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.


sorry if the point i was trying to make came across wrong to you goat65.....that was not my intention....i was simply pointing out to you that you simply hadn't tested the said cable to its maximum potential like 18gbs....(alot of mfs say there cables are 18gbs when they are simply not....that is why us here on this thread are trying to find out which ones work and which ones don't....regardless of this certification.....the only way to tell if cables are good is by real life testing of the cables by posters on here who have tried them.......so therefore this is why it would of been impossible for you to say that this cable works with no issues....and recommend to others....as you have no way of testing 4k at the moment to prove the cables can actually do 4k.....you say you are in the process of updating your cables....so that you will be ready when you do make that 4ktv purchase....(so what happens then when you purchase your brand new awesome 4ktv.....only to find out the very hdmi cables you bought don't work....infact we here are trying to help you...because if someone had of posted on here about the cables not working....then you would not purchase them....its pointless buying the cables first imo anyway....i know you didn't make any 4k claims about the cable....and were simply trying to help someone out...but the whole point of this cable is that it is supposed to be able to do full uhd 4k @ 60hz.....as its advertised as highspeed 18gps........and by you saying the cable works fine...can be somehow misinterpreted by others that this cable can do 4k...the answer is we simply dont know until someone tests.... it properly.....thats all im trying to say to you

i hope this has not put you of the tread....and you continue to give your input....best regards rayh271


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## Andrewm1

Having tried a few 10m (30ish feet) cables advertising 18gbps in NZ one 24awg and one 26awg with redmere and all of them failing at 4k 30hz I have order 2 BJC series 1 15 foot cables and a blackbird 4k repeater to try and get the best of both worlds.


Will arrive mid March - will let you know then.


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## CraigAmey

Andrewm1 said:


> Having tried a few 10m (30ish feet) cables advertising 18gbps in NZ one 24awg and one 26awg with redmere and all of them failing at 4k 30hz I have order 2 BJC series 1 15 foot cables and a blackbird 4k repeater to try and get the best of both worlds.
> 
> 
> Will arrive mid March - will let you know then.


Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.


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## CraigAmey

rayh271 said:


> what you guys reckon is the best premium high-speed hdmi cables..... outhere at the moment....that are capable of full 18Gb/s) ...i have cut down my run to under 12 ft in total.....2 6ft cables will be required.....6ft from pc to av receiver.....then 6ft from av receiver to the tv
> 
> im looking to get this res....rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz........
> 
> my setup is.....a pc with a (gtx1080) gpu in it.....to my av receiver (denon avr x6300h)....then out to 4k hdr tv (sony xd9305).....all hdmi ports on my devices are 2.0hdmi spec
> 
> thanks in advance for any help
> *
> *


Monoprice CP cables by far your best (and least expensive) choice. Yes, they're a little stiff but okay as long as you have a bit of room behind your components. Otherwise I'd try Rocketfish next.


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## CraigAmey

65Goat said:


> Sorry for offering any assistance - I will refrain in future.


Sulking is not permitted here as it is a violation of forum rules and policies. The best and the worst thing about forums is that we all get to say what we really mean, so don't take it too personally. 

The point wasn't to offend anyone but there's a lot of misinformation that gets put on forums as truth (the first sentence above for example ) and sometimes it's hard to wade through it all and get to the real information. That's why it's best not to offer too much conjecture without backing it up with references or hard data. 

We're probably a bit sensitive about it because most of us have spent significant amounts of money and time being guinea pigs for manufacturers whose claims about their cable's capabilities are nothing but shameless lies.


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## rstark18

So I had my DVR upgraded to a 4k model which got me in the mood to finally pull the trigger on the full 4k setup. My old setup was DVR, PS4, Denon AVR 788 and a Vizio GV52L. The run from the AVR to the TV is 25ft. The run from everything else to the AVR is 3ft. Currently I have old super thick MP cable to the TV and standard on the 3ft runs. Of course with the old setup everything is fine. 
My new setup that I'm putting together is going to replace the Vizio with a Samsung 65KS800D and the Denon has already been replaced with a Yamaha TSR5810.
Before reading this thread I thought this would be easy. I ordered a MP 25ft active cable and two 3ft MP CP cables. Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have problems. 
With my current setup (and if I upgrade to PS4Pro) should I be concerned that I'm not getting full throughput? How do I test it with that setup?


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## CraigAmey

rstark18 said:


> So I had my DVR upgraded to a 4k model which got me in the mood to finally pull the trigger on the full 4k setup. My old setup was DVR, PS4, Denon AVR 788 and a Vizio GV52L. The run from the AVR to the TV is 25ft. The run from everything else to the AVR is 3ft. Currently I have old super thick MP cable to the TV and standard on the 3ft runs. Of course with the old setup everything is fine.
> My new setup that I'm putting together is going to replace the Vizio with a Samsung 65KS800D and the Denon has already been replaced with a Yamaha TSR5810.
> Before reading this thread I thought this would be easy. I ordered a MP 25ft active cable and two 3ft MP CP cables. Now I'm wondering if I'm going to have problems.
> With my current setup (and if I upgrade to PS4Pro) should I be concerned that I'm not getting full throughput? How do I test it with that setup?


Unfortunately the MP active cable will get you 4K HDR (YUV420) but no better. The highest resolution output from the PS4 Pro is 4K RGB (RGB 444) which is almost 18Gb/s and I don't know of any active cable that can do that. If you can live with 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable, if you need longer get a Belden BJC Series-1. 

As far as testing goes you will likely have issues with the receiver. Most Yamaha receivers default to Video Mode 2 which only allows YUV420. You'll get a message from your PS4 Pro that it only supports 2K HDR (1080p). To change the mode it will be something like this 

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/986008/Yamaha-Rx-V779.html?page=122

Once you've changed mode the PS4 Pro will switch up to RGB 444 and if your cables can't handle it you'll get a black screen or in some cases a picture with occasional flashes of white and or sparkles in black areas. At that point you can also boot your PS4 Pro into safe mode and force the resolution to YUV 420 to get your picture back.


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## Jonas2

So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?

Also, wondering about various angled connectors....I wouldn't think they would affect anything, but are these kinds of connectors generally assumed to also support pretty much any standard? Guess I'm having trouble understanding why a pin-to-pin (pin for pin?) connection wouldn't support any standard....


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## davisnub

CraigAmey said:


> Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.


agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run


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## CraigAmey

Jonas2 said:


> So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?
> 
> Also, wondering about various angled connectors....I wouldn't think they would affect anything, but are these kinds of connectors generally assumed to also support pretty much any standard? Guess I'm having trouble understanding why a pin-to-pin (pin for pin?) connection wouldn't support any standard....


If by Deep Color you mean 10 bit HDR then there is NO cable of any size that supports that. At best you can get 8 bit at 2160p60 RGB 444 but beyond that you're outside the range of HDMI 2.0a and only a handful of cables can handle even 8 bit. 

Remember that run length is significant. My Monoprice Ultraslim 6ft cables came very close to passing RGB 444 but still had occasional problems. 3ft might have worked but I ended up swapping for 3ft CP cables. Once you get over about 10ft then you are correct, there are no slim cables that work at RGB 444. Over 20ft the ones that work resemble fire hoses (23 AWG). 

Connectors aren't much of a problem, unless they have tails like some of the Monoprice HDMI wall plates. If you understand the physics of wave propagation the problem is that even slight changes in impedance around the connector cause some of the signal to be reflected rather than transmitted which means less signal gets to the receiver. The goal is that the transceivers and the cable should all have exactly the same impedance which is why it is best to use the same type of cable when connecting runs together.


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## Jonas2

CraigAmey said:


> If by Deep Color you mean 10 bit HDR then there is NO cable of any size that supports that. At best you can get 8 bit at 2160p60 RGB 444 but beyond that you're outside the range of HDMI 2.0a and only a handful of cables can handle even 8 bit.
> 
> Remember that run length is significant. My Monoprice Ultraslim 6ft cables came very close to passing RGB 444 but still had occasional problems. 3ft might have worked but I ended up swapping for 3ft CP cables. Once you get over about 10ft then you are correct, there are no slim cables that work at RGB 444. Over 20ft the ones that work resemble fire hoses (23 AWG).
> 
> Connectors aren't much of a problem, unless they have tails like some of the Monoprice HDMI wall plates. If you understand the physics of wave propagation the problem is that even slight changes in impedance around the connector cause some of the signal to be reflected rather than transmitted which means less signal gets to the receiver. The goal is that the transceivers and the cable should all have exactly the same impedance which is why it is best to use the same type of cable when connecting runs together.


Good to know. Never would have thought about impedence causing issues. Runs are short - cable box to pre-pro only 3ft. , but it can't do 4K anyway so doesn't matter. Transport to pre-pro, 5ft. Belden. At the time I got my 7 foot Beldens, the 6ft. ones hadn't been "officially certified" so I went 7 ft., really need about 6. Now more than ever. Perhaps I should just stick with the 6ft, no CP Belden cable, as thick as it is. 

I hate HDMI.....


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## Andrewm1

davisnub said:


> CraigAmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run
Click to expand...

I had seen atleast one person saying their 30ft BJC wasn't passing 18gbps and there was some success with people using 15 foot MP to blackbird to 15 foot MP.

Also for me I will trial moving my AVR and run 15 foot from HTPC to AVR and 15 foot from AVR to projector if the blackbird doesn't work. I'd rather not since I will need new front left and centre speaker cable runs but it's no biggie.

Wish me luck.


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## Joe Fernand

_'So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?' _- I'm not sure you could get anything thinner or more flexible than the Celerity Fibre cable - think black spaghetti!

Joe

PS Of course it still has to have HDMI connectors on the end - though you can detach those and 'pull' the cable with just the micro HDMI connector on the ends.


----------



## Jonas2

Joe Fernand said:


> _'So, I'm I incorrect to conclude that there is no "thin" (really flexible) cable that truly supports [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color?' _- I'm not sure you could get anything thinner or more flexible than the Celerity Fibre cable - think black spaghetti!
> 
> Joe
> 
> PS Of course it still has to have HDMI connectors on the end - though you can detach those and 'pull' the cable with just the micro HDMI connector on the ends.


I think the problem with this is that it won't make it onto the connector end of my TV - just not enough space for the HMDI connector plus the length of the fibre connector.  Otherwise I'd have a serious look! Thanks for the suggestion, could work elsewhere in my system!


----------



## rstark18

CraigAmey said:


> Unfortunately the MP active cable will get you 4K HDR (YUV420) but no better. The highest resolution output from the PS4 Pro is 4K RGB (RGB 444) which is almost 18Gb/s and I don't know of any active cable that can do that. If you can live with 20ft go with the Monoprice Certified Premium cable, if you need longer get a Belden BJC Series-1.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as testing goes you will likely have issues with the receiver. Most Yamaha receivers default to Video Mode 2 which only allows YUV420. You'll get a message from your PS4 Pro that it only supports 2K HDR (1080p). To change the mode it will be something like this
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.manualslib.com/manual/986008/Yamaha-Rx-V779.html?page=122
> 
> 
> 
> Once you've changed mode the PS4 Pro will switch up to RGB 444 and if your cables can't handle it you'll get a black screen or in some cases a picture with occasional flashes of white and or sparkles in black areas. At that point you can also boot your PS4 Pro into safe mode and force the resolution to YUV 420 to get your picture back.




I can do 20ft but it's a little tight. I guess I'm better doing the MP CP cable rather than the MP Active.

Now the next question. Is it truly a noticeable difference between YUV 420 and RGB 444?

[edit] just realized the TV I'm getting (Samsung 65KS800D) has a 9ft One Connect box so that means I can do 10ft runs to that. Now I just need to decide if I should route everything through the AVR or direct to the TV. I guess that's a different thread.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Jonas2 - out of curiosity I stuck a short, relatively flexible HDMI F>M cable on the TV end of the Celerity cable - all working fine so far, will run it for another day or two.










Joe


----------



## ATCNastyNate

I posted a few weeks ago on this thread and linked 2 cables that output 4:4:4 @ 60hz with HDR at 50ft lengths. I don't know why people are saying there aren't cables possible of doing this over 15ft. If you need cables, try those out. The Fiber Optic one has worked flawlessly for me the past month.


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## Dick Emery

I have a Kabeldirekt 10m cable that does not work in deep color mode on my LG OLED at 60Hz (Only 30). I tried an old 5 meter 1.4 cable and it works at 60Hz 4:4:4 full RGB 2160p. But only in 8bit. Ideally I need a 20 foot cable that works. What a pain this all is.

Has anyone tried one of those cheap repeaters? This one is available on amazon.de for 30 euros. It doesn't seem to require a power connector?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/d/5fn/Feint...er-Signal-Amplifier-50-50-ft-White/B01HDPGJ5Y


----------



## Q-the-STORM

Dick Emery said:


> I have a Kabeldirekt 10m cable that does not work in deep color mode on my LG OLED at 60Hz (Only 30). I tried an old 5 meter 1.4 cable and it works at 60Hz 4:4:4 full RGB 2160p. But only in 8bit. Ideally I need a 20 foot cable that works. What a pain this all is.


Are you trying to do 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit on your LG? If so, the answer is simple, you can't....
HDMI 2.0 does not support 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit, because that surpasses it's bandwidth... you can to 18gbps max which is 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

if this is just about getting 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit over 10m, send back the KabelDirekt cable and order another one, you just happened to get a bad one...


----------



## Dick Emery

Q-the-STORM said:


> Are you trying to do 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit on your LG? If so, the answer is simple, you can't....
> HDMI 2.0 does not support 2160p60 4:4:4 10bit, because that surpasses it's bandwidth... you can to 18gbps max which is 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...
> 
> if this is just about getting 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit over 10m, send back the KabelDirekt cable and order another one, you just happened to get a bad one...


I can't even get 10 bit 4:2:0 @ 60Hz when my LG TV is set to deep color mode. I was trying to get HDR working in a PC came but the game does not recognize HDR being available. I can get 10 bit 4:2:2 @ 60Hz on the other non-HDMI 2.0 cable but again it does not recognize HDR being available on the TV. I am using an AMD Radeon RX 480 btw. I guess I should try returning the cable for a 7.5m one to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Dick Emery

Just a note. Everyone is discussing if a long cable of 20-25 feet can pass 4:4:4 full RGB @ 60Hz. My 10m Kabeldirekt cable can. In 8 bit only. However what it fails on is when my LG OLED TV is set to Deep Color mode for 10 bit support. When the HDMI on the TV is set to Deep Color I can only get 30Hz with 10 bit enabled. What I require is 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0 to run games such as Resident Evil 7. HDMI 2.0b supports this. But my KD doesn't. My old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.


----------



## Q-the-STORM

Dick Emery said:


> Just a note. Everyone is discussing if a long cable of 20-25 feet can pass 4:4:4 full RGB @ 60Hz. My 10m Kabeldirekt cable can. In 8 bit only. However what it fails on is when my LG OLED TV is set to Deep Color mode for 10 bit support. When the HDMI on the TV is set to Deep Color I can only get 30Hz with 10 bit enabled. What I require is 60Hz 10bit 4:2:0 to run games such as Resident Evil 7. HDMI 2.0b supports this. But my KD doesn't. My old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.


This is very very strange... The cable itself doesn't know if the signal is 4:4:4 or 10bit or whatever, it doesn't matter what data is transmitted, bandwidth is what matters...
so if you can transmit 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit which is 18gbps, your cable should be able to transmit anything in HDMI 2.0 spec... 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit is only 11gbps, your cable should have no problem with that... I think this is more a GPU issue than a cable issue... because there's no way a cable fails on 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit and doesn't fail on 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...

maybe try some other things, you should be able to do anything up to 2160p60 4:2:2 12bit... so maybe give 4:2:0 12bit and 4:2:2 12bit a try... could be that your GPU screws up at 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dick Emery said:


> JMy old 5m 1.4 cable does seem to support that however but RE7 does not seem to recognize the connected display as being HDR capable.


No such thing as an HDMI 1.4 cable. The cable may have been tested and certified for HDMI 1.4 hardware protocols but it's just a data pipe. It was probably a well made passive HDMI cable. HDMI cables are either passive or active. There isn't supposed to be any number designation associated with the cable per HDMI.org. Even tho cable mfrs and resellers are very misleading with their cable descriptions.


----------



## Jonas2

Joe Fernand said:


> Jonas2 - out of curiosity I stuck a short, relatively flexible HDMI F>M cable on the TV end of the Celerity cable - all working fine so far, will run it for another day or two.


Great suggestion! Now that I might be able to pull off!


----------



## CraigAmey

Q-the-STORM said:


> This is very very strange... The cable itself doesn't know if the signal is 4:4:4 or 10bit or whatever, it doesn't matter what data is transmitted, bandwidth is what matters...
> so if you can transmit 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit which is 18gbps, your cable should be able to transmit anything in HDMI 2.0 spec... 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit is only 11gbps, your cable should have no problem with that... I think this is more a GPU issue than a cable issue... because there's no way a cable fails on 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit and doesn't fail on 2160p60 4:4:4 8bit...
> 
> maybe try some other things, you should be able to do anything up to 2160p60 4:2:2 12bit... so maybe give 4:2:0 12bit and 4:2:2 12bit a try... could be that your GPU screws up at 2160p60 4:2:0 10bit...


Agreed, if the cable doesn't support YUV420 HDR you won't get a picture. I've never seen a cable prevent the transceivers from switching modes, I think that negotiation happens at a very low bandwidth that just about any cable can support. Even when I was testing RGB444, every cable I tried *attempted* to switch to that mode, just that most of them failed miserably once they did and they didn't switch back at that point, I just got a black screen or flickering picture. Even the PS4 Pro automatically switched up to RGB444 when the receiver indicated it could support that mode, and I had to safe-boot the PS4 Pro to force it back to YUV420.

Something is wrong with your settings, this has nothing to do with cable bandwidth.


----------



## CraigAmey

rstark18 said:


> I can do 20ft but it's a little tight. I guess I'm better doing the MP CP cable rather than the MP Active.
> 
> Now the next question. Is it truly a noticeable difference between YUV 420 and RGB 444?
> 
> [edit] just realized the TV I'm getting (Samsung 65KS800D) has a 9ft One Connect box so that means I can do 10ft runs to that. Now I just need to decide if I should route everything through the AVR or direct to the TV. I guess that's a different thread.


1. Yes the MP CP cables can handle much higher bandwidth than their active cables. 

2. No, not really. At least at normal viewing distance on my 65" OLED I don't see any difference at all. It might be noticeable at 1080p but at 4K I'd be very surprised if anyone can see that at 10ft.

3. Connect devices which support HDMI CEC to the AVR, connect everything else to the TV directly. Notable holdouts for HDMI CEC are the Xfinity X1 and the Wii U, so I have those on HDMI 1 and 3 and have the receiver connected to HDMI 2.


----------



## Laserion

Considering this is a 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ supported cable, can we assume that it will also support HDR?

66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ


Some manufacturer indicates HDR with their product and some of them not. So, how can we understand that?


----------



## warnija

*HDMI cable needed for a long run*

I have my A/V components in a rack about 60' away from my main TV. I am currently using a 75' MonoPrice Slim Run AV Fiber Optic HDMI cable to connect my receiver and TV which works great except it does not support ARC. Therefore, I am looking for a different HDMI cable which can support at least the following:

•	UHD/4K Support: 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4 and 50/60Hz at 4:4:4
•	Deep color support for UHD/4K 24/25/30Hz 4:4:4/10 bits or 50/60Hz 4:2:0/10 bit 
•	HDR10
•	HDCP 2.2 
•	ARC – with support for all digital audio formats (e.g., Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio)

It seems like the Celerity HDMI cable supports some of these things but does not get into the specific details in the spec sheet on their website. When I inquired with customer support they said that they support all of the above. Given the cost of this HDMI cable, I am wary to just blindly believe the guy answering emails (especially when he just said yes we support all of that). Can anyone here validate that they have achieved some of the above with the Celerity cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion said:


> Considering this is a 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ supported cable, can we assume that it will also support HDR?
> 
> 66FT ULTRA HIGH SPEED HDMI 22GB FIBER OPTIC/HYBRID CABLE 4KX2K/60HZ
> 
> 
> Some manufacturer indicates HDR with their product and some of them not. So, how can we understand that?


You can't. They state the cable is certified by Murvideo and Quantum but neither one of those use standardized protocols such as the one that HDMI.org has so the consumer has not way of knowing how the testing is performed and how extensive (random picks at random lengths from the production line or each cable tested individually). An active copper-based cable can push 4k @60Hz under certain circumstances but it's the color space that's the issue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

warnija said:


> I have my A/V components in a rack about 60' away from my main TV. I am currently using a 75' MonoPrice Slim Run AV Fiber Optic HDMI cable to connect my receiver and TV which works great except it does not support ARC. Therefore, I am looking for a different HDMI cable which can support at least the following:
> 
> •	UHD/4K Support: 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4 and 50/60Hz at 4:4:4
> •	Deep color support for UHD/4K 24/25/30Hz 4:4:4/10 bits or 50/60Hz 4:2:0/10 bit
> •	HDR10
> •	HDCP 2.2
> •	ARC – with support for all digital audio formats (e.g., Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos and DTS-HD Master Audio)
> 
> It seems like the Celerity HDMI cable supports some of these things but does not get into the specific details in the spec sheet on their website. When I inquired with customer support they said that they support all of the above. Given the cost of this HDMI cable, I am wary to just blindly believe the guy answering emails (especially when he just said yes we support all of that). Can anyone here validate that they have achieved some of the above with the Celerity cable?


ARC currently only supports 5.1 audio and Atmos. HD audio will not be possible until the introduction of HDMI 2.0, and then you will more than likely be limited to a "special cable" for HDMI 2.0 that reportedly has a max distance of about 6' - 10'. 75' is going to be tough for any cable but your best bet would probably be the Celerity cable. As long as you run your cable(s) in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation you should have no problem swapping cable if you need to (which you probably will eventually).


----------



## Laserion

Otto Pylot said:


> You can't. They state the cable is certified by Murvideo and Quantum but neither one of those use standardized protocols such as the one that HDMI.org has so the consumer has not way of knowing how the testing is performed and how extensive (random picks at random lengths from the production line or each cable tested individually). An active copper-based cable can push 4k @60Hz under certain circumstances but it's the color space that's the issue.


Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion said:


> Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?


That would seem reasonable. The mfr should spec that out, and put that in writing. If they don't, then it appears that they are misleading you on purpose just to make a sale. These cables are not cheap. To be fair to Celerity, there are some who have successfully according to them, pushed 4k, 4:4:4 @60hz over distances longer than 25'. All you do is try. There are no guarantees.


----------



## LRS3

Otto Pylot said:


> ARC currently only supports 5.1 audio and Atmos. HD audio will not be possible until the introduction of HDMI 2.0, and then you will more than likely be limited to a "special cable" for HDMI 2.0 that reportedly has a max distance of about 6' - 10'. 75' is going to be tough for any cable but your best bet would probably be the Celerity cable. As long as you run your cable(s) in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation you should have no problem swapping cable if you need to (which you probably will eventually).



i believe you mean HDMI 2.1, not 2.0. HDMI 2.1 is what will be needed for HD audio over ARC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LRS3 said:


> i believe you mean HDMI 2.1, not 2.0. HDMI 2.1 is what will be needed for HD audio over ARC.


You are correct. Typing error . Thanks for catching that.


----------



## jugsta

Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Laserion said:


> Thanks for your reply. Then i should ask again, how can i reach the infotmation that specifically this cable will support HDR or not? Is the only the way asking to the manufacturer?


Either ask the mfr for a certificate of compliance or a spec sheet on the cable you are interested in, or maybe somebody here has purchased the same cable and has a way to verify HDR or not.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?


It can always get worse  If the sparkles aren't real bad at 50', 40' might work well. Try it.


----------



## LRS3

jugsta said:


> Going back and forth with the technician at Celerity... He mentioned he would replace the cable that was defective with in one year of purchase. I'm curious if I were to replace my 50 foot model with a 40 Foot model, would I lose the sparkles. It probably can't get worse, right?


I have a 40-foot Celerity cable between my Denon 7200 AVR and Sony 940D TV, and it works well. It does seem to take a little longer to successfully complete the HDMI handshake than my previous cable, but once the handshake is established the connection remains rock solid.

I will say that when I first got the Celerity cable, I had some pretty significant problems when using my Cisco cable box. (Yeah we all know that cable boxes often have poor HDMI handshake performance.) I discussed the issue with Celerity's tech support, and they sent me new transmitter and receiver ends for the Celerity cable. As I recall, the replacements had little daubs of green paint on them, so I'm assuming they had been checked out somehow by Celerity. In any case, performance was significantly improved with the new transmitter/receiver ends. I'm a bit surprised Celerity didn't raise the transmitter/receiver ends when you discussed matters with them.


----------



## jugsta

LRS3 said:


> I have a 40-foot Celerity cable between my Denon 7200 AVR and Sony 940D TV, and it works well. It does seem to take a little longer to successfully complete the HDMI handshake than my previous cable, but once the handshake is established the connection remains rock solid.
> 
> I will say that when I first got the Celerity cable, I had some pretty significant problems when using my Cisco cable box. (Yeah we all know that cable boxes often have poor HDMI handshake performance.) I discussed the issue with Celerity's tech support, and they sent me new transmitter and receiver ends for the Celerity cable. As I recall, the replacements had little daubs of green paint on them, so I'm assuming they had been checked out somehow by Celerity. In any case, performance was significantly improved with the new transmitter/receiver ends. I'm a bit surprised Celerity didn't raise the transmitter/receiver ends when you discussed matters with them.


I don't have a solid case to support this, but I'm worried the Pioneer SC-95 I have may be a contributor (along with the distance) to the problem. I guess we'll see. I still need to test the PS4 Pro to TV directly. That won't tell me much and it won't fix anything- it will just give another opportunity to shoot another mean look at the Pioneer (does not play nice on my network).


----------



## AVmaster319

any cable with HDMI premium certified will support that spec


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVmaster319 said:


> any cable with HDMI premium certified will support that spec


If you're referring to just ARC (5.1 audio), sure. But HD Audio over ARC is not possible until HDMI 2.1, and then the cables will be the special "48Gbps" cable. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is also touch and go at 40' - 50' regardless of mfr claims.


----------



## Andrewm1

Andrewm1 said:


> davisnub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CraigAmey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Will be interested to see if this works. My guess is that a single 30ft Series-1 would have been a better choice.
> 
> 
> 
> agreed, in my setup, I have the blackbird before my 35ft run
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can confirm my setup of two BJC 15 foot cables joined by a mono price blackbird repeater passes 4K 60hz 8 bit 4:4:4 from my htpc with gtx 1060 and from my onkyo rz1100.
> 
> Im not sure why you guys believe the single cable would have been better? Since the 15 foot cables are also 23.5awg same as the 30 foot ones with a repeater in the middle surely that has to be more effective.
Click to expand...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Andrewm1 said:


> Andrewm1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can confirm my setup of two BJC 15 foot cables joined by a mono price blackbird repeater passes 4K 60hz 8 bit 4:4:4 from my htpc with gtx 1060 and from my onkyo rz1100.
> 
> Im not sure why you guys believe the single cable would have been better? Since the 15 foot cables are also 23.5awg same as the 30 foot ones with a repeater in the middle surely that has to be more effective.
> 
> 
> 
> Generally speaking, a single cable without any "interruptions" is more reliable in a lot of cases and most would prefer to use single cables instead of having extra hardware to keep the look clean and aesthetically pleasing. I'm glad to hear that using the Blackbird repeater worked in your situation because there are some who haven't been so lucky with the Blackbirds.
Click to expand...


----------



## rayh271

here is an article answer/not answering questions about hdmi 2.1

http://www.cepro.com/article/prepare_for_hdmi_2.1_metra_home_theater_answers_dealer_questions


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ Metra Home Theater is just another mfr/reseller trying to position themselves to get customers once the HDMI 2.1 frenzy hits. There is still so much that is not known (other than the specs) as to when HDMI 2.1 will be universally available, availability of source material, whether or not existing HDMI 2.0a chipsets can be upgraded to fully compliant HDMI 2.1, cable design and length for the 48Gbps bandwidth, etc. I wouldn't get too excited about it yet.

DPL Labs is one source for certification, but they use different protocols for certifying cables than the protocols that HDMI.org has designed and implements thru their ATC (Authorized Testing Center) programs. An ATC certified cable is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI and comes with a certificate of authenticity.


----------



## rayh271

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ Metra Home Theater is just another mfr/reseller trying to position themselves to get customers once the HDMI 2.1 frenzy hits. There is still so much that is not known (other than the specs) as to when HDMI 2.1 will be universally available, availability of source material, whether or not existing HDMI 2.0a chipsets can be upgraded to fully compliant HDMI 2.1, cable design and length for the 48Gbps bandwidth, etc. I wouldn't get too excited about it yet.
> 
> DPL Labs is one source for certification, but they use different protocols for certifying cables than the protocols that HDMI.org has designed and implements thru their ATC (Authorized Testing Center) programs. An ATC certified cable is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI and comes with a certificate of authenticity.[/QUOTe
> 
> hdmi 2.0 a/b devices cannot and will not be upgraded to hdmi 2.1..(at best maybe a few tweaks...as Panasonic have stated that there hdmi 2.0a 4ktvs might.....might be able to upgrade to hdmi 2.1....didnt confirm this.........hdmi 2.1 is hardware based.....=so therefore will not be able to be upgraded via firmware upgrade...big brands like sony, lg ect probably could upgrade there current tvs....but wont simply because thats there next selling point hdmi 2.1 on tvs say from 2018).......the only hope we have is that these new hdmi 2.1 cables.....will allow us to maxiumize the full 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60/120 8/10 bit colour......sure10 bit colour which requires minium of 18gps.....and i have yet to come across any hdmi cable out there that can do 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60 10 bit colou....only possible to do 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60 8 bit......i guess we will just have to wait and see over next few months


----------



## Otto Pylot

rayh271 said:


> hdmi 2.0 a/b devices cannot and will not be upgraded to hdmi 2.1..(at best maybe a few tweaks...as Panasonic have stated that there hdmi 2.0a 4ktvs might.....might be able to upgrade to hdmi 2.1....didnt confirm this.........hdmi 2.1 is hardware based.....=so therefore will not be able to be upgraded via firmware upgrade...big brands like sony, lg ect probably could upgrade there current tvs....but wont simply because thats there next selling point hdmi 2.1 on tvs say from 2018).......the only hope we have is that these new hdmi 2.1 cables.....will allow us to maxiumize the full 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60/120 8/10 bit colour......sure10 bit colour which requires minium of 18gps.....and i have yet to come across any hdmi cable out there that can do 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60 10 bit colou....only possible to do 4k rgb 4:4:4 @60 8 bit......i guess we will just have to wait and see over next few months


Yep. I had heard that if there are upgrades to HDMI 2.0a, they won't allow for full HDMI 2.1 compatibility so it will be just more of a tease to those who have sets that will allow that. Source material will be another issue like it is now for HDR (even tho that is getting better). The 48Gbps cable will a bigger problem than what we have now for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz at lengths over about 20'. The last I read is that the cables will be limited to 2 or 3 meters for full HDMI 2.1 capability. That's fine unless your equipment is more than 10' away from your panel. The cables won't be cheap either. Hopefully, by the time HDMI 2.1 is widely available, along with the complementary devices, the cable issue will be worked out. However, given the mess we are in now with the current video standards and cables, I'm not too hopeful. The video technology is still far ahead of the connection technology.


----------



## hifiaudio2

My new install will have the projector 15-20ft from the preamp. Is there likely to be enough difference in the chances of passing all of the "highest bandwidth" needs to get the 15ft Monoprice CP (or better cable if recommended) and try to make it work rather than just getting the 20ft and knowing I will have plenty of length?


----------



## CraigAmey

hifiaudio2 said:


> My new install will have the projector 15-20ft from the preamp. Is there likely to be enough difference in the chances of passing all of the "highest bandwidth" needs to get the 15ft Monoprice CP (or better cable if recommended) and try to make it work rather than just getting the 20ft and knowing I will have plenty of length?


All the cables that I've been able to get working at 18Gb/s were 20ft or longer so I would just get the 20ft Monoprice as we know that works. If you really want to play safe get the BJC Series-1 25ft as that cable has been verified to pass 18Gb/s at up to 35ft and is probably about as future-proof as you can get right now.


----------



## Otto Pylot

hifiaudio2 said:


> My new install will have the projector 15-20ft from the preamp. Is there likely to be enough difference in the chances of passing all of the "highest bandwidth" needs to get the 15ft Monoprice CP (or better cable if recommended) and try to make it work rather than just getting the 20ft and knowing I will have plenty of length?


All you can do is try. Some have luck, some don't. If you install in-conduit then if it doesn't work for your particular hardware setup/cable setup, you can easily try another cable. Installing conduit is the only way to "future proof" your cable needs.


----------



## Dick Emery

So what's the cheapest 7 meter cable I can get to do full fat 2.0b?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Cheap is a relative term. For 21' I'd look at a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (ATC certified) from Monoprice. If you have a choice for a thicker gauge cable I'd go for that. Just be mindful of bend radius and stress on the HDMI input if the cable is really thick and stiff. Regardless of cable mfr claims, there isn't any 100% guarantee that a specific cable is going to meet your needs. Connected hardware, cable run, etc also play a part.


----------



## MUPPPP

My brain is spinning from all of this information. I need a 75' HDMI cable capable of 4K HDR. I don't care what it costs (within reason, i don't want to spend $1k or something). What is my best option? I purchased this Monoprice SlimRun AV Fiber optic cable and it didn't work. I was having constant handshake issues (I think that is the correct term) in which the picture would work only briefly, would go out, and back in, and then wouldn't work at all. It did this whether I was going through my Onkyo 4k TX RZ710 receiver to my sony 75xbr940d or going directly from my xbox one S to the TV. Is the Celerity fiber optic cable my best bet? 

This thread needs a sticky or something with what has worked and has not worked for various people.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ratman

Sticky or not. 1600 posts that states EVERYONE has issues with distances and 4K. Some had + results... some had - results. 
Keep reading and keep trying.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1


----------



## Q-the-STORM

MUPPPP said:


> I was having constant handshake issues (I think that is the correct term) in which the picture would work only briefly, would go out, and back in, and then wouldn't work at all.


If you just have handshake issues, you might be able to fix that i you put a HDFury Integral or Linker inbetween.


----------



## ccool96

MUPPPP said:


> My brain is spinning from all of this information. I need a 75' HDMI cable capable of 4K HDR. I don't care what it costs (within reason, i don't want to spend $1k or something). What is my best option? I purchased this Monoprice SlimRun AV Fiber optic cable and it didn't work. I was having constant handshake issues (I think that is the correct term) in which the picture would work only briefly, would go out, and back in, and then wouldn't work at all. It did this whether I was going through my Onkyo 4k TX RZ710 receiver to my sony 75xbr940d or going directly from my xbox one S to the TV. Is the Celerity fiber optic cable my best bet?
> 
> 
> 
> This thread needs a sticky or something with what has worked and has not worked for various people.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.




Buy the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber on Amazon. I have 4 Celerity cables and they work great, but I'm not crazy about the external USB power. 

This new RUIPRO Fiber doesn't need external power. I brought the 30 meter cable (100 feet) for $229 and it works flawless. It passes all 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12bit HDR. 

It's the only other cable that has worked reliability beside the Celerity cables. 

This is cheaper - doesn't need external power as its fiber and copper power all in one cable. And if you have Amazon prime, you can try it and easily return it if it doesn't work for you. 

But if this had been available before bought all my Celerity cables, I would have only bought this new one from RUIPRO. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## unknownbeef

The only 25' cable I've gotten to work with all signals, from my Denon to my JVC 4k projector, is a BlueRigger in-wall HDMI cable. This is without trying the more expensive fiber options, of course.


----------



## Otto Pylot

unknownbeef said:


> The only 25' cable I've gotten to work with all signals, from my Denon to my JVC 4k projector, is a BlueRigger in-wall HDMI cable. This is without trying the more expensive fiber options, of course.


Consider yourself lucky


----------



## golffnutt

unknownbeef said:


> The only 25' cable I've gotten to work with all signals, from my Denon to my JVC 4k projector, is a BlueRigger in-wall HDMI cable. This is without trying the more expensive fiber options, of course.


I am running (about a month now) a bluerigger also. It is a 35' cable going from my AVR to my 4K TV. Works absolutely great, gets all the signals, it 18gbps, 60fps frame rate no problem with Billy Lynn. Highly recommend this cable for the money, my 35' was only $24.99 on Amazon. Good Luck to everyone.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

So then, if I want a 60-70' solution, would my best bet beeee.....perhaps 2 30'-35' long HDMI Cables of solid quality with a booster of some sort (HD Fury perhaps) in between?

I will be going from a GTX 1080Ti to a VW365ES. Pretty certain the 365 maxes at 8bit 4:2:0 (in the 10.2Gbps realm). My primary interest is 4k/60.

So far I have tried many many MANY cables of the proper length with zero success. The best so far was: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XUACI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which manages 4k/30 but up to 4k/60 and no dice. Also tried some shorter cabling with a Blakcbird 4k/60 repeater for fun but (as expected) that didnt work either.

Have not yet tried a Bluerigger or RUIPRO but in the case of the latter, they sure seem to be MIA these days.


----------



## Laserion

Kyle_Gates said:


> So then, if I want a 60-70' solution, would my best bet beeee.....perhaps 2 30'-35' long HDMI Cables of solid quality with a booster of some sort (HD Fury perhaps) in between?
> 
> I will be going from a GTX 1080Ti to a VW365ES. Pretty certain the 365 maxes at 8bit 4:2:0 (in the 10.2Gbps realm). My primary interest is 4k/60.
> 
> So far I have tried many many MANY cables of the proper length with zero success. The best so far was: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XUACI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which manages 4k/30 but up to 4k/60 and no dice. Also tried some shorter cabling with a Blakcbird 4k/60 repeater for fun but (as expected) that didnt work either.
> 
> Have not yet tried a Bluerigger or RUIPRO but in the case of the latter, they sure seem to be MIA these days.


The cable you tried doesn't even claim that it'll support 4K60hz or 18gbps bandwith.

Anyway, my "RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 30m Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz" will be arriving next week. I'll write result of my trial right after i plugged it. But there are already someone who managed success with this cable. Unfortunately, amazon is out of stock now after everyone read this news.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kyle_Gates said:


> So then, if I want a 60-70' solution, would my best bet beeee.....perhaps 2 30'-35' long HDMI Cables of solid quality with a booster of some sort (HD Fury perhaps) in between?
> 
> I will be going from a GTX 1080Ti to a VW365ES. Pretty certain the 365 maxes at 8bit 4:2:0 (in the 10.2Gbps realm). My primary interest is 4k/60.
> 
> So far I have tried many many MANY cables of the proper length with zero success. The best so far was: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XUACI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which manages 4k/30 but up to 4k/60 and no dice. Also tried some shorter cabling with a Blakcbird 4k/60 repeater for fun but (as expected) that didnt work either.
> 
> Have not yet tried a Bluerigger or RUIPRO but in the case of the latter, they sure seem to be MIA these days.


For a 70' run, your best bet is to use a single cable because anytime you put something between two cables, even a booster of some sorts, you will run the the chance of not being able to obtain a stable 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz signal. All you can do is try but don't be surprised if it doesn't work to your satisfaction. You may want to consider running solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) and then terminate with some sort of active termination such as HDBT. Newer HDMI chipsets are just starting to become available so upgrading the HDBT termination ends will be easy because they are external to the cable so you wouldn't have to mess with the cable at all. A fiber optic installation is another option (like Celerity) if they offer 70' cables with the upgradeable termination points. I'm assuming you are running your cable in-conduit. It's not surprising that the BlueRigger and RUIPRO cables are out of stock based on limited success some have had. Mfr claims must be taken with a big grain of salt.


----------



## warnija

Kyle_Gates said:


> So then, if I want a 60-70' solution, would my best bet beeee.....perhaps 2 30'-35' long HDMI Cables of solid quality with a booster of some sort (HD Fury perhaps) in between?
> 
> I will be going from a GTX 1080Ti to a VW365ES. Pretty certain the 365 maxes at 8bit 4:2:0 (in the 10.2Gbps realm). My primary interest is 4k/60.
> 
> So far I have tried many many MANY cables of the proper length with zero success. The best so far was: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N8XUACI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which manages 4k/30 but up to 4k/60 and no dice. Also tried some shorter cabling with a Blakcbird 4k/60 repeater for fun but (as expected) that didnt work either.
> 
> Have not yet tried a Bluerigger or RUIPRO but in the case of the latter, they sure seem to be MIA these days.


I would wait until March 31st when Arrow AV will post their definitive review of HDMI cables that are able to achieve the 18Gbps 4K/60 standard.


----------



## Otto Pylot

warnija said:


> I would wait until March 31st when Arrow AV will post their definitive review of HDMI cables that are able to achieve the 18Gbps 4K/60 standard.


Keep in mind that ARROW-AV's testing will give folks a good idea of what may work but it will not be a definitive guide as to what will work 100% of the time for any HTS setup. Reliable 18Gbps over a distance of about 25' or more will always be an issue at this point in time.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

So to Laserion- I have tried 15+ different cables at this point, was just listing the most recent. Some list 18Gbps, some dont, I figure, try them all!

To Otto- No Conduit...bare studs 

To Warnija- I can CERTAINLY wait for that review/breakdown!!!

As for nothing being a sure thing....very aware of that and willing to experiment.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kyle_Gates said:


> So to Laserion- I have tried 15+ different cables at this point, was just listing the most recent. Some list 18Gbps, some dont, I figure, try them all!
> 
> To Otto- No Conduit...bare studs
> 
> To Warnija- I can CERTAINLY wait for that review/breakdown!!!
> 
> As for nothing being a sure thing....very aware of that and willing to experiment.


No conduit is going to be a problem, unless the studs are open to you, because cabling requirements are going to be changing, sooner than later, and you will need to swap out cables at some point in time. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. If it's already sheet rocked, good luck.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

Otto Pylot said:


> No conduit is going to be a problem, unless the studs are open to you, because cabling requirements are going to be changing, sooner than later, and you will need to swap out cables at some point in time. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. If it's already sheet rocked, good luck.


Well, perhaps a very small intro to me. I am after a solid picture, solid sound, (both on a budget many here would think is pocket change) and thats about it. My cabling has run through hooks drilled into the ceiling for the last 20 years. When cabling changes, take one cable down, run a new one, couldn't care less how the room looks as....once the lights are down, it doesn't matter. So swapping cables will always be very, VERY easy.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kyle_Gates said:


> Well, perhaps a very small intro to me. I am after a solid picture, solid sound, (both on a budget many here would think is pocket change) and thats about it. My cabling has run through hooks drilled into the ceiling for the last 20 years. When cabling changes, take one cable down, run a new one, couldn't care less how the room looks as....once the lights are down, it doesn't matter. So swapping cables will always be very, VERY easy.


Excellent. Then you're good to go. Finding a 60'-70' cable for 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz will be your only challenge then so you can rule out installation, as long as you keep the bend radius reasonable.


----------



## thinkthis

*4k HDR cable*

Has anyone tried the new SlimRun AV HDR cable from Monoprice? They just came out and unlike Monoprice's prior SlimRun optical HDMI cable these say they are 18gbps and that they are capable of doing HDR [email protected], etc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thinkthis said:


> Has anyone tried the new SlimRun AV HDR cable from Monoprice? They just came out and unlike Monoprice's prior SlimRun optical HDMI cable these say they are 18gbps and that they are capable of doing HDR [email protected], etc.


Marketing. They are active optical cables which derive their power from the sink end. There is no mention of how they determined the cables are capable of a sustained 18Gbps (no certification or testing mentioned). SlimRun cables have been around for quite some time. Part of the marketing is that the cables are thin, which is good if your run is straight, but there's no guarantee that they will work reliable at a given bend radius. Monoprice has a good return policy so all you can do is try it. They may work with your setup. However, I would lay it out on the floor first before installation and thoroughly test it before you install.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

thinkthis said:


> Has anyone tried the new SlimRun AV HDR cable from Monoprice? They just came out and unlike Monoprice's prior SlimRun optical HDMI cable these say they are 18gbps and that they are capable of doing HDR [email protected], etc.


I tried this exact cable in a 75ft....no Dice. Was great at 1080p though....


----------



## Kyle_Gates

Um...yay!!!!!!!!!!! I bought three of the Ruipro 15m and, they work!!! Tried each from a GTX 1080 to various 4K monitors and have had no trouble with the following settings:

3840x2160/60hz (and lower)
8bpc (10bpc option no longer available when switching out the 6ft DP for the 15m HDMI (RuiPro))
RGB
4:4:4
4:2:2
4:2:0

Gaming at 3840x2160 @ 60fps was no issue. Very, very pleased. Still awaiting the Arrow-AV breakdown as I am quite interested there but just figured I'd report on my Ruipro experience.


----------



## bigcat

so can any one post a link to Arrow AV's definitive guide to the perfect HDMI cable? It was promised above by 3/31.


----------



## Kyle_Gates

bigcat said:


> so can any one post a link to Arrow AV's definitive guide to the perfect HDMI cable? It was promised above by 3/31.


Simmer down meow. They are running a bit behind:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-h...d-blu-ray-long-hdmi-cables-what-works-26.html

(Not sure anyone said it was a guide to the "perfect" cable either......could be wrong....but I'm not)


----------



## Otto Pylot

bigcat said:


> so can any one post a link to Arrow AV's definitive guide to the perfect HDMI cable? It was promised above by 3/31.


There is no such thing as the perfect HDMI cable, nor will there ever be. Components used and setup are critical as well. What ARROW-AV will have is a guide to various cables that met their testing criteria but it will not be a guarantee that any specific cable will meet your expectations and/or needs 100% of the time. It should at least narrow down considerably which cables to consider for given lengths. At least I hope so.


----------



## Buddylee123

Has anyone tried these cables from Monoprice? they are listed as a flexible polymer optical cable.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...ero&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables


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## vince.janik

The Goobay premium HDMI 6m seems to work for me. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

Buddylee123 said:


> Has anyone tried these cables from Monoprice? they are listed as a flexible polymer optical cable.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...ero&utm_campaign=170404_slimrun_av_hdr_cables



The SlimRun cables have been discussed many times. They work for some but not for everyone. Other factors like connected devices, setup, run length, all can play a factor in whether the cable works for you or not. No guarantees. All you can do is try and pay attention to the return policy.


----------



## checkjam

Im getting so confused by this mess.. Im a rookie who bought a new TV and new receiver:
LG Oled E6 TV and receiver is yamaha RX-A860 . I have a PC that I wanna use to game a bit with on the TV (through the receiver).
I tried to connect a good old HDMI 1.4 cable 8meters from my PC (geeforce 980Ti) to my receivers v-aux HDMI port in the front. Didnt go so well though..

I was hoping to be able to play games in 4k: 4:4:4 / 60hz . 10-bit I guess I can forget about..? Theres not so many games in 10bit yet though but I wanted to try resident evil 7 that I heard looks gorgeous in 10bit PC gaming.

So if you wanna play PC games with 10bit colors you have to run 4:2:0 YUV or what is the best?
and if I wanna play normal games I guess u need 4:4:4 RGB 8-bit ..? did I understand this correct?

If so then Ive heard that Supra cables are good but do I really need such a expensive cable for just 8 meters..?


----------



## Otto Pylot

No such thing as an HDMI 1.4 cable. It's either a High Speed HDMI, passive or active cable. The only difference between passive and active is that you can run an active cable longer than 25' (up to a certain distance) and still pass the HDMI 1.4 hardware protocols reliably. HDMI 2.0 is more difficult because there is a distance limitation, depending on your hardware, setup, cable run, bend radius, etc that makes passing the higher video protocols problematic. Cable mfrs make all kinds of claims so you just need to test out various cables with your HTS and see which one works best for you. There is no one cable that is guaranteed to meet your needs. It's all trial and error (with a little smoke and mirrors thrown in by the mfrs). Video technology has far outpaced connection technology.


----------



## fizban11

Posted on another forum *UHD Blu-ray and Long HDMI cables - what works !*

*Finally!* 
After two Sammy firmware updates and one firmware update on the AV8802A a little while back, I am happy to report success with an Active Optical Cable (AOC) from MyCableMart #: SA-SHDC-8700-10, 10M cable. The pathway and equipment are below. On a side note, I have abandoned the usage of my Roku Ultra for now. I experienced too many little stability issues. Those may have changed now with a cable that seems to work. Maybe I'll try it again and see. Also, with PLEX on the NVShield Pro running better than I could have anticipated, I have also pulled the Popcorn Hour VTEN-U.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the 10M cable I received is different than the picture - no USB dongle attached at all. After speaking with tech support @ MyCableMart, I found out that the chip in the HDMI connectors was recently upgraded (again) which allowed for it to no longer need the USB dongle. Tech said that they needed to update the picture on the website. I do not know if all lengths are the same, but for the 10M cable, expect no dongle attached. Also, the title and features section of this cable states support for 22Gbps, but the paragraph description shows 18Gbps. I'm not sure if this is just sloppy website upkeep.

*Pathway & Equipment:*
4K/59.940 (recommended resolution) - 12-bit 4:2:2/10-bit 4:2:0 Rec.2020 (HDR) without any errors.
NVShield Pro - 3ft MP Certified HDMI - AV8802A Pre-Pro - MyCableMart AOC - Sammy UN65JS9500 (2015 - UHD On, no PC mode.)
AV8802A is set to "Conversion Off" for this HDMI input, so native resolution pass-through for the NVShield Pro.

Additionally, built-in AV8802A menu's for built-in (non-HDMI plug-in) sources are running with conversion ON, set to 4K (50/60) and are displaying just fine on the TV. Previously, my old cable would not allow for any video for this. When trouble-shooting many months ago with Marantz, this is what they had me do to ID a cable issue.


----------



## Dick Emery

Back in 2010 I purchased this 5 meter cable. I tried to replace it with a 10 meter 2.0 certified cable for when I finally got my 4K TV. Suffice to say the newer 10 meter cable does not give me the full fat signal. But the 5 meter one does! I am taking a punt on the 7.5 meter version because I need just a little more length. Worth a shot since it's rather cheap 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003SXT6F6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dick Emery said:


> Back in 2010 I purchased this 5 meter cable. I tried to replace it with a 10 meter 2.0 certified cable for when I finally got my 4K TV. Suffice to say the newer 10 meter cable does not give me the full fat signal. But the 5 meter one does! I am taking a punt on the 7.5 meter version because I need just a little more length. Worth a shot since it's rather cheap
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003SXT6F6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


The certification length, as defined by HDMI.org, for HDMI 2.0a/b has not been defined. 25' is the maximum certifiable length for HDMI 1.4, and we're talking hardware specs, not cable specs as there is no such thing as an HDMI 1.4/2.0 cable. Almost any cable under about 20' is going to work, especially if you have a thicker wire gauge. Don't know what you mean by a "full fat signal". Either you get signal or not. Any cable mfr/reseller that states their cables are certified for a specific length above 25' is suspect because there are lots of ways to "certify" a cable and unless you know which HDMI hardware specifications have been certified and if they were tested following standardized procedures, it's all marketing. At a bit under 25', a high speed HDMI cable, passive or active, should work unless you are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Then it becomes a trial and error experience, regardless of mfr/reseller claims.


----------



## inspector

I have a 40' run and just bought Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable...it works perfect, and for only $25!!!


----------



## Otto Pylot

inspector said:


> I have a 40' run and just bought Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable...it works perfect, and for only $25!!!


Congratulations! Some work and some don't. I'm assuming it works at 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz?


----------



## inspector

Yes, with my Epson 3D/4K Projector through my Samsung K8500 3D/4K player.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ excellent!


----------



## Dick Emery

Otto Pylot said:


> The certification length, as defined by HDMI.org, for HDMI 2.0a/b has not been defined. 25' is the maximum certifiable length for HDMI 1.4, and we're talking hardware specs, not cable specs as there is no such thing as an HDMI 1.4/2.0 cable. Almost any cable under about 20' is going to work, especially if you have a thicker wire gauge. Don't know what you mean by a "full fat signal". Either you get signal or not. Any cable mfr/reseller that states their cables are certified for a specific length above 25' is suspect because there are lots of ways to "certify" a cable and unless you know which HDMI hardware specifications have been certified and if they were tested following standardized procedures, it's all marketing. At a bit under 25', a high speed HDMI cable, passive or active, should work unless you are trying to push 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz. Then it becomes a trial and error experience, regardless of mfr/reseller claims.


Sorry it's 1.3 certified. Anyhow. Just plugged it in aaaaaaaand......

......IT WORKS! Full 4:4:4 RGB @ 10bit 60Hz/fps.

A tenner well spent


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dick Emery said:


> Sorry it's 1.3 certified. Anyhow. Just plugged it in aaaaaaaand......
> 
> ......IT WORKS! Full 4:4:4 RGB @ 10bit 60Hz/fps.
> 
> A tenner well spent


Excellent! Consider yourself one of the lucky ones being there is no such thing as an HDMI 1.3 certified cable. If it is labeled as HDMI 1.3 it is a really old cable because HDMI.org asked cable mfrs/resellers a few years ago to stop labeling cables with the hardware certification spec. The cables are either passive/active high speed HDMI. However, that would be possible if your panel is 1080p only with a 10.2Gbps (340MHz) maximum bandwidth cable or HDMI input chipsets.


----------



## ykjones

In a emergency and ordered Celerity's 40ft Optical HDMI cable that is "supposed" to support all specs for 4K, 4:4, HDR, 18Gbs, etc to replace my Audioquest Pearl. Crossing my fingers it works as planned. Installers will be back Fri to pull the old cable and run the Celerity cable. Wish me luck!


----------



## Otto Pylot

ykjones said:


> In a emergency and ordered Celerity's 40ft Optical HDMI cable that is "supposed" to support all specs for 4K, 4:4, HDR, 18Gbs, etc to replace my Audioquest Pearl. Crossing my fingers it works as planned. Installers will be back Fri to pull the old cable and run the Celerity cable. Wish me luck!



You're posting the same thing to two different threads. To keep the responses coherent, and to make it easier to search, please keep your posts to one thread. At 40', are you running your cable in a conduit because you should be.


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## rayh271

just a little link about manufactures false claims about thier hdmi cables...

http://www.cepro.com/article/beware_hdmi_4k_60_rev_2.1


----------



## Otto Pylot

rayh271 said:


> just a little link about manufactures false claims about thier hdmi cables...
> 
> http://www.cepro.com/article/beware_hdmi_4k_60_rev_2.1


I've been saying the same thing for a long time, ever since HDMI 2.0 was released. What the article says is true but it is also written by DPL Labs, who have their own certification program similar to the one offered by HDMI.org (ATC'S, Authorized Testing Centers). DPL is probably the main competitor to HDMI.org as to certifying cables but the ATC's have been certifying a lot longer than DPL. Unfortunately, the testing protocols are not standardized between the two organizations so cables certified by either one can not be compared to each other for accuracy and/or claims. While the article is true, it is also a bit of marketing spin for DPL Labs.


----------



## rayh271

Otto Pylot said:


> I've been saying the same thing for a long time, ever since HDMI 2.0 was released. What the article says is true but it is also written by DPL Labs, who have their own certification program similar to the one offered by HDMI.org (ATC'S, Authorized Testing Centers). DPL is probably the main competitor to HDMI.org as to certifying cables but the ATC's have been certifying a lot longer than DPL. Unfortunately, the testing protocols are not standardized between the two organizations so cables certified by either one can not be compared to each other for accuracy and/or claims. While the article is true, it is also a bit of marketing spin for DPL Labs.


yeap your spot on there....its all about marketing......will we ever get a proper 18gbps capable hdmi cable (over 10m) that doesn't cost like $250....that's just ridiculous....i simply just moved my pc over nearer to my 4ktv so i could get proper rgb 4:4:4 4k @60hz....at a fraction of the cost

a little tip for people who want 4k gaming and 7.1 sound.....with a non 4k av receiver

if you want to get 4k picture quality from your pc to your tv, and 7.1 sound.....on a av receiver that doesn't support 4k there is a way around this........as ARC only supports 5.1....i wanted 7.1.......this is how i have been able to do this

i have connected my pc (which has a gtx1080 gpu in it) directly to my 4ktv by firstly connecting a 4k display port to hdmi 2.0 adapter to my gtx 1080 display port......and then high speed hdmi cable out to the 4ktv.......

and then for the sound......i simply connected a high speed hdmi cable from the hdmi 2.0 port on the gtx 1080 directly to the av receiver

i now can play games in 4k all while having 7.1 sound......also this will work with any uhd content too


----------



## Kyle_Gates

rayh271 said:


> yeap your spot on there....its all about marketing......will we ever get a proper 18gbps capable hdmi cable (over 10m) that doesn't cost like $250....that's just ridiculous....i simply just moved my pc over nearer to my 4ktv so i could get proper rgb 4:4:4 4k @60hz....at a fraction of the cost
> 
> a little tip for people who want 4k gaming and 7.1 sound.....with a non 4k av receiver
> 
> if you want to get 4k picture quality from your pc to your tv, and 7.1 sound.....on a av receiver that doesn't support 4k there is a way around this........as ARC only supports 5.1....i wanted 7.1.......this is how i have been able to do this
> 
> i have connected my pc (which has a gtx1080 gpu in it) directly to my 4ktv by firstly connecting a 4k display port to hdmi 2.0 adapter to my gtx 1080 display port......and then high speed hdmi cable out to the 4ktv.......
> 
> and then for the sound......i simply connected a high speed hdmi cable from the hdmi 2.0 port on the gtx 1080 directly to the av receiver
> 
> i now can play games in 4k all while having 7.1 sound......also this will work with any uhd content too


Ah HA!!! Was VERY interested to know if this would work. Good to hear it is possible. I assume that the 1080 picks up the receiver as another "monitor" and you are effectively "cloning" the screen?


----------



## David José

Hello,

For a pc connected to Oled tv @4K 60HZ 4: 2: 0 is fine just to watch movies? (I do not use tv as a monitor ), if I put it to 4: 4: 4 come out sparkle.

Thank you.


----------



## Otto Pylot

"Sparkles" usually means that you are not getting a complete signal. At what distance is your cable run?


----------



## David José

Otto Pylot said:


> "Sparkles" usually means that you are not getting a complete signal. At what distance is your cable run?


Hello, the cable is 10ft, I tried with 3 cables (Kabeldirect 15FT, monorpice premiun 15FT, mediabridge 10FT) and with some the screen goes black and comes back from time to time, and with others come Sparkles. 

The strange thing is that with the same pc and the room tv a LG led 4K (UF8500) if they work well at 4:4:4 60Hz, with the oled alone at 4:2:0 60Hz.


----------



## rayh271

Kyle_Gates said:


> Ah HA!!! Was VERY interested to know if this would work. Good to hear it is possible. I assume that the 1080 picks up the receiver as another "monitor" and you are effectively "cloning" the screen?


yes...that would be correct just select you av receiver from sound menu in windows....and select 7.1 sound...thats it.....also another tip if using powerdvd 16 or latest powerdvd 17...which plays uhd....set up audio like this

click video audio subtitles, (far left corner) then select more audio options....... under output quality tab…select use HDMI....... and output mode should be non-decoded high definition audio to external device (this will allow full untouched audio to go directly to av reciever.....which will allow the reciever to do the sound mixing...which is what you want for dts hd master audio playback


----------



## rayh271

David José said:


> Hello, the cable is 10ft, I tried with 3 cables (Kabeldirect 15FT, monorpice premiun 15FT, mediabridge 10FT) and with some the screen goes black and comes back from time to time, and with others come Sparkles.
> 
> The strange thing is that with the same pc and the room tv a LG led 4K (UF8500) if they work well at 4:4:4 60Hz, with the oled alone at 4:2:0 60Hz.


you should have no problems sending 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz at under 10 feet......what gpu have you got installed in your pc.....is it hdmi 2.0?


----------



## Kyle_Gates

rayh271 said:


> yes...that would be correct just select you av receiver from sound menu in windows....and select 7.1 sound...thats it.....also another tip if using powerdvd 16 or latest powerdvd 17...which plays uhd....set up audio like this
> 
> click video audio subtitles, (far left corner) then select more audio options....... under output quality tab…select use HDMI....... and output mode should be non-decoded high definition audio to external device (this will allow full untouched audio to go directly to av reciever.....which will allow the reciever to do the sound mixing...which is what you want for dts hd master audio playback


Awesome, thanks for the info. Now...the only other piece of info I need is, how much does "cloning" a single display disrupt SLi performance. I know it hurts, but I have yet to find out just how much.


----------



## David José

rayh271 said:


> you should have no problems sending 4k rgb 4:4:4 @ 60hz at under 10 feet......what gpu have you got installed in your pc.....is it hdmi 2.0?


Hi, I have an NVidia 1070GTX, thanks.


----------



## rayh271

Kyle_Gates said:


> Awesome, thanks for the info. Now...the only other piece of info I need is, how much does "cloning" a single display disrupt SLi performance. I know it hurts, but I have yet to find out just how much.


no probs pal....im not sure what effect it has on sli....(as i dont use sli at the moment...i only use a single 1080 gpu in my rig....(will purchase another one when price drops a bit more :laugh......it would depend on the type of gpus you are using and would only effect gaming imo.... viewing blu ray iso should be no problem...as not too hard on the gpu


----------



## rayh271

David José said:


> Hi, I have an NVidia 1070GTX, thanks.


hi david......yes your 1070 gpu is hdmi 2.0 spec...so this should work fine...(especially under 3 metres....the longer the run the less chance you have of getting this to work....like 10 meters was what i was trying to achieve...and couldnt find any cables that would do this)

....just make sure you use a high speed 18gbps cable....(remember most manufacturers claim there cables are 18gbs capable when in fact there not....hence that's why we have this thread to try and find out which cables are good and work

if you are getting black screen dropout and sparkles....then the cables are not high speed cables.......also makesure you have uhd selected on your 4ktv for the input you are using


----------



## Kyle_Gates

rayh271 said:


> no probs pal....im not sure what effect it has on sli....(as i dont use sli at the moment...i only use a single 1080 gpu in my rig....(will purchase another one when price drops a bit more :laugh......it would depend on the type of gpus you are using and would only effect gaming imo.... viewing blu ray iso should be no problem...as not too hard on the gpu


Dual 1080 Ti's here.....and yeah I wagered gaming would be the only thing affected but, thats the entire reason for the SLi so I'll have to see what the performance hit (at max settings/4K) is and decide if its worth it. If its not.....back to the drawing board.


----------



## rayh271

Kyle_Gates said:


> Dual 1080 Ti's here.....and yeah I wagered gaming would be the only thing affected but, thats the entire reason for the SLi so I'll have to see what the performance hit (at max settings/4K) is and decide if its worth it. If its not.....back to the drawing board.


Dual 1080 Ti's...very nice

...im waiting to see what amd vega benchmarks are.......before i build my next rig....bad time to buy gpus right now.....mini war at play here....nvidia are rummered to be be pushing ahead with their nxt gen series 11 gpus.,....after amd launch their vega gpu soon....(as usual we will never be able to own latest tech for more than a few months)......its crazy how nvidia have released all those gpus in such a short space of time....really bad for the consumer on nvidias part......they have been drip feeding us their tech last few years.....and all of sudden finally some decent competition comes from amd....and nvidia quickly release card after card....(even the naming of them is confusing) they are trying to keep control of market share.....but all nvidia have really done here is super annoy customers who have bought there gpus...only to find out a month later they release another card...then another card.....crazy

......as you will never own the latest tech....its impossible....sure the 4k tvs shown at ces 2017....and have only being released last few weeks are already obselite........as they dont have hdmi 2.1 spec.....(what was very bizarre was the timing of this new hdmi 2.1 spec announcement....it was announced at ces 2017 when all the new singing and dancing 4k tvs were being shown off......beggars believe.....so we now know what the manufacturers selling points will be at ces 2018......yes you guessed it.....hdmi 2.1 spec.........another chance to screw the consumer

....as i always say wen it comes to tech....set your limits.....and budget and stick to it

sorry for going off topic guys...but i felt i had to put this out there


----------



## Kyle_Gates

rayh271 said:


> Dual 1080 Ti's...very nice
> 
> ...im waiting to see what amd vega benchmarks are.......before i build my next rig....bad time to buy gpus right now.....mini war at play here....nvidia are rummered to be be pushing ahead with their nxt gen series 11 gpus.,....after amd launch their vega gpu soon....(as usual we will never be able to own latest tech for more than a few months)......its crazy how nvidia have released all those gpus in such a short space of time....really bad for the consumer on nvidias part......they have been drip feeding us their tech last few years.....and all of sudden finally some decent competition comes from amd....and nvidia quickly release card after card....(even the naming of them is confusing) they are trying to keep control of market share.....but all nvidia have really done here is super annoy customers who have bought there gpus...only to find out a month later they release another card...then another card.....crazy
> 
> ......as you will never own the latest tech....its impossible....sure the 4k tvs shown at ces 2017....and have only being released last few weeks are already obselite........as they dont have hdmi 2.1 spec.....(what was very bizarre was the timing of this new hdmi 2.1 spec announcement....it was announced at ces 2017 when all the new singing and dancing 4k tvs were being shown off......beggars believe.....so we now know what the manufacturers selling points will be at ces 2018......yes you guessed it.....hdmi 2.1 spec.........another chance to screw the consumer


Oh I would tend to agree on almost every point here! I just happen to work in an environment that got me both 1080 TI's at a bit over $850 total so...had to do it! The points I disagree with is what nVidia has been doing. The strategy has been GREAT as company stability (and stock pricing) has never been higher. With each iteration the consumers have gone nuts and bought at unprecedented pace as higher resolutions and new waves of technology (DX12, VR, etc) take hold. AMD's newest offerings in the CPU and GPU realm will only help to further the advancements and force a nice price war with Intel and team Green. Tough to stay on the cutting edge but until I have a solution that will play maxed games at 4K/60...I'll keep on upgrading!

My big worry was, with a 665es on the way, how do I get proper video to the projector AND sound to the non-4k receiver (CAN'T bring myself to ditch my rxz11). Now, I have something to try that sounds solid.


----------



## Cain

ccool96 said:


> Buy the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber on Amazon. I have 4 Celerity cables and they work great, but I'm not crazy about the external USB power.
> 
> This new RUIPRO Fiber doesn't need external power. I brought the 30 meter cable (100 feet) for $229 and it works flawless. It passes all 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12bit HDR.
> 
> It's the only other cable that has worked reliability beside the Celerity cables.
> 
> This is cheaper - doesn't need external power as its fiber and copper power all in one cable. And if you have Amazon prime, you can try it and easily return it if it doesn't work for you.
> 
> But if this had been available before bought all my Celerity cables, I would have only bought this new one from RUIPRO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thx for this post. I'm looking to upgrade my HDMI cables. I also don't like having to supply power to the cable at the projector. At the source would have been fine. I'll look at the RuiPro.


----------



## DAB

As AVS member i am aware of the HDMI hype and stories & $$$$ re: HDMI cables. Just your thoughts on this.

COST is not the issue- these Monoprice are very well priced - a few $$ difference is not the issue. Postage might cost more!
Q?- for 1.5 or 3 ft is going to any of these> 32AWG-28AWG-28AWG-36AWG any better for PQ. using in a good AVR, 4kUHD display.
UHD player> AVR
Digital OTA tuner>AVR
Display new 4k UHD 65''[ 10' needed] > AVR- might need this- already have MFG's
Maybe not so much PQ, but built quality. Once in place, will not be touched[hopefully] for long time.
* I have purchased may items from MP...


----------



## Q-the-STORM

DAB said:


> Q?- for 1.5 or 3 ft is going to any of these> 32AWG-28AWG-28AWG-36AWG any better for PQ. using in a good AVR, 4kUHD display.


As long as the cable works (no errors, sparkles, etc) PQ will be exactly the same, no matter the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Either the cable works or it doesn't. The cable itself can not make audio/video fidelity any better.


----------



## netroamer

DAB said:


> Q?- for 1.5 or 3 ft is going to any of these> 32AWG-28AWG-28AWG-36AWG any better for PQ. using in a good AVR, 4kUHD display.


It has been stated very strongly in other threads on the forum that many HDMI products are equalized for cables of 6' or greater. It did not seem to be a major issue with 1080p, but with 4k I would not use short cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> It has been stated very strongly in other threads on the forum that many HDMI products are equalized for cables of 6' or greater. It did not seem to be a major issue with 1080p, but with 4k I would not use short cables.


As far as HDMI 1.4/2.0 goes, the maximum certifiable length was 25' for 1080p. I've used cables less than 6' and had no issues at all for 1080p. It would stand to reason that the shorter the cable the less issue one would have for 4k provided the cable was high speed and made well.


----------



## MUPPPP

ccool96 said:


> Buy the RUIPRO HDMI Fiber on Amazon. I have 4 Celerity cables and they work great, but I'm not crazy about the external USB power.
> 
> This new RUIPRO Fiber doesn't need external power. I brought the 30 meter cable (100 feet) for $229 and it works flawless. It passes all 18Gbps signals like 4k/60 4:4:4 8bit and 4k/60 4:2:2 12bit HDR.
> 
> It's the only other cable that has worked reliability beside the Celerity cables.
> 
> This is cheaper - doesn't need external power as its fiber and copper power all in one cable. And if you have Amazon prime, you can try it and easily return it if it doesn't work for you.
> 
> But if this had been available before bought all my Celerity cables, I would have only bought this new one from RUIPRO.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Great! Thank you for the advice. I purchased the 100ft version. I will update when I get a chance to try it. I can't wait to put this issue to bed.


----------



## ruipro

Hello everyone,

I am very glad to access this tread  and very happy to meet all of you.
Appreciate everyone here that you choose our cable and hope it can solve the HDMI2.0b long distance connection issue.
Appreciate Mr. Arrow much about the testing report and the effort!

I am the director of Ruipro brand.
Can I leave my email here to service you?
Thank you very much!


----------



## hifiaudio2

Great to have a manufacturer in the thread for feedback and questions! Welcome!


----------



## ruipro

hifiaudio2 said:


> Great to have a manufacturer in the thread for feedback and questions! Welcome!


Thank you  any questions about the Ruipro HDMI Fiber Cable please anyone leave a message to me


----------



## Otto Pylot

ruipro said:


> Thank you  any questions about the Ruipro HDMI Fiber Cable please anyone leave a message to me


Are your cables certified and if so, how and by whom?


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> Are your cables certified and if so, how and by whom?


The cable passed CE/Rohs Certified currently,


----------



## Otto Pylot

ruipro said:


> The cable passed CE/Rohs Certified currently,


RoHS is the European Union restrictions on the use of hazardous materials used in electrical and electronic devices. CE certification is the European designation that means a product was produced following specific manufacturing guidelines to maintain conformity. Both of which have nothing to do with certifying that the cable meets HDMI 1.4/2.0 specifications as detailed by HDMI.org licensing. So, how and have you tested your cables to meet the HDMI.org's current HDMI specifications and is that certification available so that one can see what the cable was tested for?


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> RoHS is the European Union restrictions on the use of hazardous materials used in electrical and electronic devices. CE certification is the European designation that means a product was produced following specific manufacturing guidelines to maintain conformity. Both of which have nothing to do with certifying that the cable meets HDMI 1.4/2.0 specifications as detailed by HDMI.org licensing. So, how and have you tested your cables to meet the HDMI.org's current HDMI specifications and is that certification available so that one can see what the cable was tested for?


Yes, you are right. 
I misunderstood the "certified" as common certification such as ROHS/CE/FCC..the last time.
The spec testing for HDMI is as below:
1. Tested by several insturments from SimplayLabs and got a report on the RD stage, but as we know there is no a HDMI standard defination about the hybrid HDMI cable certification currently. So can not get a Premium Certification. All of the HDMI Fiber cable can not get a HDMI certification currently. 
2. Tested by SL-881 for QC, Resolution/HDCP/HDR/Color space/depth... 
3. Player/Display checking for working;
4. Aging test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ruipro said:


> Yes, you are right.
> I misunderstood the "certified" as common certification such as ROHS/CE/FCC..the last time.
> The spec testing for HDMI is as below:
> 1. Tested by several insturments from SimplayLabs and got a report on the RD stage, but as we know there is no a HDMI standard defination about the hybrid HDMI cable certification currently. So can not get a Premium Certification. All of the HDMI Fiber cable can not get a HDMI certification currently.
> 2. Tested by SL-881 for QC, Resolution/HDCP/HDR/Color space/depth...
> 3. Player/Display checking for working;
> 4. Aging test.


Thanks. Are your Certificate of Compliances available for each length of cable offered? Understand about the hybrid cable certification but is there any indication that the HDMI 1.4/2.0 specs were even tested for? What about bend radius?


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks. Are your Certificate of Compliances available for each length of cable offered? Understand about the hybrid cable certification but is there any indication that the HDMI 1.4/2.0 specs were even tested for? What about bend radius?


Welcome sir, I am pleased to discuss the cable with you. Actually we need to learn much knowlege from the end user such as you).
The cable works well under the length shorter than 75m.
Because as we know there are 7+1 copper wires in the cable. 
They are handling 5V power supply/Plug&play/I2C.
So once the cable is too long, the cable need to be calibrated on the C and R caused by copper wire transmission.

So currently we just provide the length within 50m to ensure the quality.
The Certificate of Compliances is for 50m, so surely is available for the length shorter.

SL-881 is a standard testing instruments(6G generator) provided by SL-Labs to test HDMI2.0b spec, and SL-LABS is authorized by HDMI ORG.
Each cable we offered must be tested by SL-881 to ensure 4K60P 4:4:4 HDR supported etc before shippment.
Bending radius:
You can bend the cable around your thumb for long and long time. The cable is still working normally.
Coated shielding of the optical wire and the aramid yarn material in the cable to prevent to be broken.

Thank you,


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ excellent information. Thank you. If SL-Labs is authorized by HDMI.org then they should be an ATC, which is good. Hopefully HDMI.org will eventually extend the HDMI 2.0b certification beyond 25' and apply it to fiber, which would be good for the consumer. Not a 100% guarantee but at least something the consumer can use as a gauge.


----------



## steelman1991

ruipro said:


> Welcome sir, I am pleased to discuss the cable with you. Actually we need to learn much knowlege from the end user such as you).
> The cable works well under the length shorter than 75m.
> Because as we know there are 7+1 copper wires in the cable.
> They are handling 5V power supply/Plug&play/I2C.
> So once the cable is too long, the cable need to be calibrated on the C and R caused by copper wire transmission.
> 
> So currently we just provide the length within 50m to ensure the quality.
> The Certificate of Compliances is for 50m, so surely is available for the length shorter.
> 
> SL-881 is a standard testing instruments(6G generator) provided by SL-Labs to test HDMI2.0b spec, and SL-LABS is authorized by HDMI ORG.
> Each cable we offered must be tested by SL-881 to ensure 4K60P 4:4:4 HDR supported etc before shippment.
> Bending radius:
> You can bend the cable around your thumb for long and long time. The cable is still working normally.
> Coated shielding of the optical wire and the aramid yarn material in the cable to prevent to be broken.
> 
> Thank you,


Do you have a UK distributor?


----------



## ruipro

steelman1991 said:


> Do you have a UK distributor?


Hello Steelman, we currently do not have a distributor in UK  Do you live in UK?


----------



## steelman1991

ruipro said:


> Hello Steelman, we currently do not have a distributor in UK  Do you live in UK?


Yes - that's a pity about no distributor . I'm having difficulty finding a cable that carries a reliable 4k/60 4:2:2 HDR signal at approx 7 meters. Really liked the idea of no power requirement and single cable run. It's becoming a pain with a wall mounted panel to continually take down and pull-through cables to test - only to find that they don't work and to start the process all over again.

I'm about to take delivery of a 77" OLED screen and was looking to install a reliable source for that install.


----------



## ruipro

steelman1991 said:


> Yes - that's a pity about no distributor . I'm having difficulty finding a cable that carries a reliable 4k/60 4:2:2 HDR signal at approx 7 meters. Really liked the idea of no power requirement and single cable run. It's becoming a pain with a wall mounted panel to continually take down and pull-through cables to test - only to find that they don't work and to start the process all over again.
> 
> I'm about to take delivery of a 77" OLED screen and was looking to install a reliable source for that install.


Hello Steelman,
Say sorry about that.
But we are proceeding to build distribution currently in UK.
Hope it will take not too much time.
Thank you for your interest.


----------



## alebonau

ruipro said:


> Hello Steelman,
> Say sorry about that.
> But we are proceeding to build distribution currently in UK.
> Hope it will take not too much time.
> Thank you for your interest.


any plans for australia ? were are a long way from rest of world !


----------



## ruipro

alebonau said:


> any plans for australia ? were are a long way from rest of world !


Hello Alebon,

Sorry that as Ruipro brand, we are proceeding a worldwide distribution recently.
But currently we have not found a reliable potential partner in AU as a distributor currently.
We are keeping searching now.

Thank you,


----------



## steelman1991

ruipro said:


> Hello Steelman,
> Say sorry about that.
> But we are proceeding to build distribution currently in UK.
> Hope it will take not too much time.
> Thank you for your interest.


That's a pity - will keep my eyes open for them hitting the street.

Thanks.


----------



## alebonau

ruipro said:


> Hello Alebon,
> 
> Sorry that as Ruipro brand, we are proceeding a worldwide distribution recently.
> But currently we have not found a reliable potential partner in AU as a distributor currently.
> We are keeping searching now.
> 
> Thank you,


hope you find one, there are many international brands including cables sold here no problems so must be some reliable sorts keen to distribute


----------



## ruipro

alebonau said:


> hope you find one, there are many international brands including cables sold here no problems so must be some reliable sorts keen to distribute


Surely we will, thank you Alebon!


----------



## ruipro

steelman1991 said:


> That's a pity - will keep my eyes open for them hitting the street.
> 
> Thanks.


Thank you Steelman, we are proceeding this matter and will compelete soon!


----------



## STAIN0

inspector said:


> I have a 40' run and just bought Monoprice Cabernet Ultra CL2 Active High Speed HDMI Cable...it works perfect, and for only $25!!!


my 30' doesn't


----------



## inspector

STAIN0 said:


> my 30' doesn't



Maybe it's because it's directional?


----------



## Otto Pylot

STAIN0 said:


> my 30' doesn't


Active cables are directional. In other words, the sink end (tv) side needs to draw a little power from the HDMI input so the chipsets can do error correction, timing, etc. The cables should be marked as to which end goes where. Passive cables are bi-directional.


----------



## ruipro

Otto Pylot said:


> Active cables are directional. In other words, the sink end (tv) side needs to draw a little power from the HDMI input so the chipsets can do error correction, timing, etc. The cables should be marked as to which end goes where. Passive cables are bi-directional.


Yes, 5V within 50mA according to the standard.


----------



## aquariex24

This one should work just fine since it says "high speed" right? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DI8A4HU?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20

And also, I see a lot of people mentioning Monoprice. Would there be any reason to get them over any other?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Monoprice is one of the supports of AVS which also happens to make/sell pretty good cables. The KabelDirect you link to is good for 1080p but it all depends on what you want to ultimately push and at what length.


----------



## ruipro

aquariex24 said:


> This one should work just fine since it says "high speed" right? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DI8A4HU?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20
> 
> And also, I see a lot of people mentioning Monoprice. Would there be any reason to get them over any other?


“High speed” is just a decription on a HDMI cable in the market, not a defination or standard.
As Otto said, what cable you need depends on what you want to display for what length.


----------



## aquariex24

Otto Pylot said:


> Monoprice is one of the supports of AVS which also happens to make/sell pretty good cables. The KabelDirect you link to is good for 1080p but it all depends on what you want to ultimately push and at what length.


Sorry it looks like I somehow copied the wrong link. I basically want to use an LG C7 (4k TV that supports 4k gaming at 60hz or 1080 at 120hz) as a monitor for my gaming PC. This is my first time with a 4k TV or using a TV as a monitor. My PC has an Nvidia 1080 graphics cards and the current monitor for it has 1440p resolution and up to 144hz refresh rate. I can't really move my rig next to the TV or put the TV close to my rig, so I'm looking for something that's 15 feet long and won't degrade speed (lag) or graphics. Here's the correct link for the one I was looking to get from SecrOMax: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YNI7G8O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




ruipro said:


> “High speed” is just a decription on a HDMI cable in the market, not a defination or standard.
> As Otto said, what cable you need depends on what you want to display for what length.


Explained now.


----------



## doctorwizz

aquariex24 said:


> Sorry it looks like I somehow copied the wrong link. I basically want to use an LG C7 (4k TV that supports 4k gaming at 60hz or 1080 at 120hz) as a monitor for my gaming PC. This is my first time with a 4k TV or using a TV as a monitor. My PC has an Nvidia 1080 graphics cards and the current monitor for it has 1440p resolution and up to 144hz refresh rate. I can't really move my rig next to the TV or put the TV close to my rig, so I'm looking for something that's 15 feet long and won't degrade speed (lag) or graphics. Here's the correct link for the one I was looking to get from SecrOMax: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YNI7G8O/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Explained now.


Get the KableDirect Pros. I have 4 of them. They all do perfect 444, 60hz, 2160P. Even the 20ft was perfect in a single run from PC to 4KTV. 
Right now I use a 15' KD Pro from PC to AVR. And a 3' KD Pro from AVR to TV.


----------



## aquariex24

doctorwizz said:


> Get the KableDirect Pros. I have 4 of them. They all do perfect 444, 60hz, 2160P. Even the 20ft was perfect in a single run from PC to 4KTV.
> Right now I use a 15' KD Pro from PC to AVR. And a 3' KD Pro from AVR to TV.


Unfortunately at the moment, they don't have any of the 15' ones available. Based on some people's reviews of the SecurOMax, they said they tested it and it worked fine. And they come with a lifetime warranty so that seems nice. How does one go about actually testing an HDMI cable from their PC to TV to confirm you're getting the right numbers?


----------



## doctorwizz

aquariex24 said:


> Unfortunately at the moment, they don't have any of the 15' ones available. Based on some people's reviews of the SecurOMax, they said they tested it and it worked fine. And they come with a lifetime warranty so that seems nice. How does one go about actually testing an HDMI cable from their PC to TV to confirm you're getting the right numbers?


If it has no sparkles, random black screens, and does 60hz at 422 or 444, it should be fine. Some cables seem to work, but you get random 2-3 second black screens. Some can cause choppy 5.1 audio.


----------



## nedstark

danbfree said:


> FARSTRIDER® HDMI 2.0 Cable 25 Feet (8 Meters) Ultra High Speed, Support 1080P, 4k, 3D, CL3 Rated, Ethernet, Audio Return, In Wall Installation, Zinc M (Looks like 25 ft is not even offered anymore, even though I just ordered it a few days ago.


Does the FARSTRIDER cable work for [email protected] ? Its not included in the test results document. Looking for a 50ft version. Thanks in advance.


----------



## danbfree

nedstark said:


> danbfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> FARSTRIDER? HDMI 2.0 Cable 25 Feet (8 Meters) Ultra High Speed, Support 1080P, 4k, 3D, CL3 Rated, Ethernet, Audio Return, In Wall Installation, Zinc M (Looks like 25 ft is not even offered anymore, even though I just ordered it a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> Does the FARSTRIDER cable work for [email protected] ? Its not included in the test results document. Looking for a 50ft version. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

I went with a different one as that one did not do [email protected] and 4:4:4 for my PC. I think it did [email protected] with subsampled chroma, 4:2:0.


----------



## aquariex24

doctorwizz said:


> If it has no sparkles, random black screens, and does 60hz at 422 or 444, it should be fine. Some cables seem to work, but you get random 2-3 second black screens. Some can cause choppy 5.1 audio.


Sorry I wasn't clear. I figure from the obvious stuff like bad picture, audio, etc. you can tell, but is there an actual way to check the speed - assuming it matters much - of the cable (the seller claims 18gbps), how my hz are being push, and the color? I mean I know you can see the current FPS when playing games but was wondering if there's also a way to check out the other numbers. Or do you pretty much just put the settings you want (in the Nvidia software) and play and as long as none of the things you mentioned are happening, then you're good?


----------



## doctorwizz

aquariex24 said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear. I figure from the obvious stuff like bad picture, audio, etc. you can tell, but is there an actual way to check the speed - assuming it matters much - of the cable (the seller claims 18gbps), how my hz are being push, and the color? I mean I know you can see the current FPS when playing games but was wondering if there's also a way to check out the other numbers. Or do you pretty much just put the settings you want (in the Nvidia software) and play and as long as none of the things you mentioned are happening, then you're good?


No way to check speed without special equipment. So your last sentence sums it up. 

I have an HDFury Integral. which show the connection link speed of an HDMI cable in Mhz. An 18Gbps cable show as 600mhz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nedstark said:


> Does the FARSTRIDER cable work for [email protected] ? Its not included in the test results document. Looking for a 50ft version. Thanks in advance.


If the Farstrider cable is sold as an "HDMI 2.0 cable" it is highly suspect as there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. They are either High Speed passive or active HDMI cables which may or may not have been certified to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> nedstark said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does the FARSTRIDER cable work for [email protected] ? Its not included in the test results document. Looking for a 50ft version. Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Farstrider cable is sold as an "HDMI 2.0 cable" it is highly suspect as there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. They are either High Speed passive or active HDMI cables which may or may not have been certified to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.
Click to expand...

All they have to look for is "premium certified", that is the equivalent of HDMI 2.0/18gbps and they are available cheap from Monoprice... but there is a reason they certify only up to 20ft as length becomes a factor, but for 50 ft there is NO way you will be able to pass a full 18good signal passively, you have to go with a spendy active option, usually fiber.


----------



## STAIN0

inspector said:


> Maybe it's because it's directional?


best i get is [email protected], 4:4:4, 12 bit, HDR


----------



## Otto Pylot

danbfree said:


> All they have to look for is "premium certified", that is the equivalent of HDMI 2.0/18gbps and they are available cheap from Monoprice... but there is a reason they certify only up to 20ft as length becomes a factor, but for 50 ft there is NO way you will be able to pass a full 18good signal passively, you have to go with a spendy active option, usually fiber.


A cable labeled as "premium certified" may not be the same as "premium high speed hdmi", which is trademarked by HDMI.org, and the cable will come with certificate of authenticity from an ATC. Premium High Speed is certified to meet HDMI 2.0b hardware specs, which does include "bandwidth up to 18Gbps". Notice the wording "up to".


----------



## danbfree

Otto Pylot said:


> A cable labeled as "premium certified" may not be the same as "premium high speed hdmi", which is trademarked by HDMI.org, and the cable will come with certificate of authenticity from an ATC. Premium High Speed is certified to meet HDMI 2.0b hardware specs, which does include "bandwidth up to 18Gbps". Notice the wording "up to".


Yes, the official one with gold logo w/QR code from the HDMI consortium is the one I definitely am referring to... thanks for clarifying for those who may not know exactly! The good ones all come up quickly with a search for "Certified Premium 4K HDMI" on Amazon. Keep in mind the main picture for the Monoprice one on Amazon doesn't show the logo on the main image but is indeed "Certified Premium". Also, up to 25 feet are made on the Monoprice but is out of stock at Amazon right now... Gotta love the selection now compared to a year ago, that's for sure!


----------



## nedstark

danbfree said:


> All they have to look for is "premium certified", that is the equivalent of HDMI 2.0/18gbps and they are available cheap from Monoprice... but there is a reason they certify only up to 20ft as length becomes a factor, but for 50 ft there is NO way you will be able to pass a full 18good signal passively, you have to go with a spendy active option, usually fiber.



Thanks for your input, What are my options for 50 ft run ? i actually only need 35ft cable but that is no option.

so even this wont work although the test PDF posted lists this as pass for 25 and 50ft option for passing full 18Gbps ?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21566&seq=1&format=2

50 is out of stock after the Test results were posted, had it in my cart last night. Should i get the 50 ft cable for $ 160 or am i wasting my money ?


----------



## danbfree

nedstark said:


> danbfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> All they have to look for is "premium certified", that is the equivalent of HDMI 2.0/18gbps and they are available cheap from Monoprice... but there is a reason they certify only up to 20ft as length becomes a factor, but for 50 ft there is NO way you will be able to pass a full 18good signal passively, you have to go with a spendy active option, usually fiber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input, What are my options for 50 ft run ? i actually only need 35ft cable but that is no option.
> 
> so even this wont work although the test PDF posted lists this as pass for 25 and 50ft option for passing full 18Gbps ?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21566&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 50 is out of stock after the Test results were posted, had it in my cart last night. Should i get the 50 ft cable for $ 160 or am i wasting my money ?
Click to expand...

No, definitely not a waste of money if that's the length you need, it's a fiber optic cable internally and that's the cost to make that distance work... if it doesn't then you can always return it making them eat return shipping for not meeting advertised specs.


----------



## danbfree

nedstark said:


> danbfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> All they have to look for is "premium certified", that is the equivalent of HDMI 2.0/18gbps and they are available cheap from Monoprice... but there is a reason they certify only up to 20ft as length becomes a factor, but for 50 ft there is NO way you will be able to pass a full 18good signal passively, you have to go with a spendy active option, usually fiber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input, What are my options for 50 ft run ? i actually only need 35ft cable but that is no option.
> 
> so even this wont work although the test PDF posted lists this as pass for 25 and 50ft option for passing full 18Gbps ?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024018&p_id=21566&seq=1&format=2
> 
> 50 is out of stock after the Test results were posted, had it in my cart last night. Should i get the 50 ft cable for $ 160 or am i wasting my money ?
Click to expand...

Wait, there are 35ft active cables for $50 on Monoprice, and that'd was just a quick search, it's a Hoss active cable: https://www.monoprice.com/mobile/ca...&subcategoryid=1024022&searchtype=subcategory

Out of stock at the moment, but at least there's another option...


----------



## Joe Fernand

Premium High Speed cables - some info here, http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/faq.aspx#156

Cable Certification - is not 'just' about testing a cable it is the complete production chain which is under test/revision. Having a cable 'Certified' is a huge cost for the manufacturers, hence so many 'non-certified' cables with names and titles similar to the official 'Premium High Speed' naming.

Guarantee - keep in mind there are many variables at play with HDMI, what works in one system may not work in another and what works with one Source in a system may not work with another Source in the same system. Always test before you 'install' any long cables.

Joe


----------



## JOGUI22

Hey guys, first of all, very interesting topic!

I just got a Samsung KS7500 and need to connect a pc with a Nvidia 1070 to it. I've read about some cables of 10meters, but I'm unable to find where to buy it in Europe. 
Any online shops /advices would be appreciated 

Bye bye!


----------



## brentsg

Linky

Yet another article, allegedly by an ISF certified individual, furthering the notion that everyone should buy the cheapest HDMI cables possible. Thought folks might want to send him some informed feedback. Apologies if this has been mentioned.

"Unless you need a durable cable or you're willing to pay more for style, the cheapest HDMI cable is the best HDMI cable."


----------



## Ratman

Here's the 1st clue of BS:




> Our testing shows that—as far as picture quality goes—all newer HDMI 2.0 cables are basically the same.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ Yep. No such thing as an "HDMI 2.0 cable".


----------



## Joe Fernand

JOGUII22 - there are active Fibre Optic HDMI and Hybrid Fibre HDMI cables (Fibre for Video and Audio + Copper for EDID, HDCP, ARC etc) which will carry full bandwidth UHD at 10m and longer (much longer if required).

Where about are you in Europe?

Joe


----------



## Mockingjay

Does anyone know where I can buy a HDMI cable active optical Ruipro long up to 10 m from Europe ?


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## Joe Fernand

Mockingjay - where about are you in Europe?

Joe


----------



## Swiguy

Hi all,

Before I bite the bullet on a ruipro or celerity fiber optic cable, I want to try my luck with the Blackbird 4K pro HDMI 2.0 repeater from Monoprice. I've read several positive reviews and think it's worth a shot (for $20, why not!). I noticed a few posts on this thread regarding it but I can't seem to find a clear consensus on it.

I have a 50ft Blue Rigger HDMI 2.0b cable that I bought from Amazon a few years ago. I've never had any issues with it until recently when I upgraded my display to a Vizio P65-C1. I can feed it [email protected] no problem, but once I up the refresh rate to 60hz I lose display.

With that being said, how many of you have had success with the Blackbird repeater? Odds are it will do enough to boost the signal from my source to display? I'm thinking of attaching the repeater to a 5-7 foot HDMI cable in my media closet which would then attach to my 50 foot long run HDMI cable... or should I not waste my time and go the fiber optic cable route?

I can replace the cable since it's in-wall via a 2" conduit from my HT room to my media closet (about 25-30 feet away). I would prefer the cheap option first but will go the fiber optic route if that's deemed the optimal choice.

Thanks!


----------



## Mockingjay

Joe Fernand, It is not important, I can buy from anywhere in Europe, the package must arrive in Romania, but I do not limit myself to buying from Romania. I just want to avoid countries outside Europe, so any recommendation in Europe will help me a lot, thank you very much


----------



## vince.janik

Last night I watched Billy Lynn uhd bluray. Worked perfectly with 2 x goobay premium certified hdmi. Handshake takes a bit long. But movie itself is awful. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


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## Joe Fernand

Mockingjay - it may be important to others for reasons that are maybe not so obvious 

If you are quick we may be able to help you out before Brexit takes hold.

Drop me a note and let's see if we can get you sorted.

Joe


----------



## Mockingjay

Joe Fernand, You can be more specific ?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Link is in my Signature or drop me a PM if you have specific questions.

Joe


----------



## russe41

I replaced my marantz 7005 av pre with a 7702 pre and now projector won't put out video(some flashes of color periodically).
I plugged in an 13" lcd tv at the projector and it works as it should but my Epson home cinema 1080p will not.
Someone suggested a premium certified hdmi, If this is so why does the small monitor work? And if a new cable will work where do I find a premium cable thats 35' long? Would a hdmi repeater work?


----------



## Otto Pylot

"Premium High Speed HDMI" cable is the term used for any high speed HDMI cable that has been certified by HDMI.org's ATC (Authorized Testing Center) standardized certification program. The cable can be mfr'd by anyone as long as they belong to the ATC program. The cable will come with a QR code for authenticity, with a holographic fingerprint, and is counterfeit-proof. Cables are tested to the full 18Gbps and with an EMI test, and every length of every model line is tested and certified. I believe that the length tested for certification is still limited to 25', like it was for HDMI 1.4.


----------



## tomiy1

Swiguy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Before I bite the bullet on a ruipro or celerity fiber optic cable, I want to try my luck with the Blackbird 4K pro HDMI 2.0 repeater from Monoprice. I've read several positive reviews and think it's worth a shot (for $20, why not!). I noticed a few posts on this thread regarding it but I can't seem to find a clear consensus on it.
> 
> I have a 50ft Blue Rigger HDMI 2.0b cable that I bought from Amazon a few years ago. I've never had any issues with it until recently when I upgraded my display to a Vizio P65-C1. I can feed it [email protected] no problem, but once I up the refresh rate to 60hz I lose display.
> 
> With that being said, how many of you have had success with the Blackbird repeater? Odds are it will do enough to boost the signal from my source to display? I'm thinking of attaching the repeater to a 5-7 foot HDMI cable in my media closet which would then attach to my 50 foot long run HDMI cable... or should I not waste my time and go the fiber optic cable route?
> 
> I can replace the cable since it's in-wall via a 2" conduit from my HT room to my media closet (about 25-30 feet away). I would prefer the cheap option first but will go the fiber optic route if that's deemed the optimal choice.
> 
> Thanks!


Aside from the price... what other downsides are there to going with fiber hdmi cables such as the ruipro's? I will need approx. a 50ft run of hdmi to a 4K HDR projector at some point in the near future and I would rather just go with an hdmi than an HDMI tx/rx extender setup. I assume the fiber hdmi cable would futureproof me for high bandwidth requirements for years to come... is that true?


----------



## Otto Pylot

tomiy1 said:


> Aside from the price... what other downsides are there to going with fiber hdmi cables such as the ruipro's? I will need approx. a 50ft run of hdmi to a 4K HDR projector at some point in the near future and I would rather just go with an hdmi than an HDMI tx/rx extender setup. I assume the fiber hdmi cable would futureproof me for high bandwidth requirements for years to come... is that true?


There is no way to future proof your connection other than installing a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit for future cable pulls. Active fiber cables seem to be the most reliable for today's video standards. I don't really see a way to get around not having an active connection, especially at 50'. Once HDMI 2.1 hardware is available, which will require 48Gbps connection, you will be needing to upgrade your cabling.


----------



## tomiy1

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no way to future proof your connection other than installing a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit for future cable pulls. Active fiber cables seem to be the most reliable for today's video standards. I don't really see a way to get around not having an active connection, especially at 50'. Once HDMI 2.1 hardware is available, which will require 48Gbps connection, you will be needing to upgrade your cabling.


Gotcha! But 48gbps will only be used when 8K comes around... which is not for another 5 years MIN i would assume. Do i need to worry about routing the fiber hdmi cables in-wall? Will the ruipro's hold up? (and are ruipro's good quality?) thanks


----------



## tomiy1

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no way to future proof your connection other than installing a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit for future cable pulls. Active fiber cables seem to be the most reliable for today's video standards. I don't really see a way to get around not having an active connection, especially at 50'. Once HDMI 2.1 hardware is available, which will require 48Gbps connection, you will be needing to upgrade your cabling.


Would something like this work in-wall for running the fiber hdmi cables? (is it necessary, or can i just run it in-wall with no protection?)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071Z3SRF1/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I2DCG23LL8DRXO&colid=1W496OPKXW2RT


----------



## Otto Pylot

tomiy1 said:


> Gotcha! But 48gbps will only be used when 8K comes around... which is not for another 5 years MIN i would assume. Do i need to worry about routing the fiber hdmi cables in-wall? Will the ruipro's hold up? (and are ruipro's good quality?) thanks


48Gbps is the bandwidth that will be required for full HDMI 2.1 compliance. HDMI 2.1 devices should start to become available next year. While the 48Gbps bandwidth may be necessary, and probably is for 8K, HDMI 2.1 devices will be available long before 8k is.

Running FO cables in-wall is not a problem as long as you use conduit and pay careful attention to bend radius. Conduit is not necessarily for "protection" of the cable, it's for ease of use in replacing/adding cabling. Especially with the use of a pull string for future cable pulls. Nobody know for sure how reliable Ruipro's cables are because they just seem to have appeared recently so there is no long term consumer use data available.


----------



## tomiy1

Otto Pylot said:


> 48Gbps is the bandwidth that will be required for full HDMI 2.1 compliance. HDMI 2.1 devices should start to become available next year. While the 48Gbps bandwidth may be necessary, and probably is for 8K, HDMI 2.1 devices will be available long before 8k is.
> 
> Running FO cables in-wall is not a problem as long as you use conduit and pay careful attention to bend radius. Conduit is not necessarily for "protection" of the cable, it's for ease of use in replacing/adding cabling. Especially with the use of a pull string for future cable pulls. Nobody know for sure how reliable Ruipro's cables are because they just seem to have appeared recently so there is no long term consumer use data available.


Would something like this work for replacing/adding cables later on? 
https://www.amazon.com/Yongcun-Corr...duit/dp/B071Z3SRF1?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20


----------



## Otto Pylot

tomiy1 said:


> Would something like this work for replacing/adding cables later on?
> https://www.amazon.com/Yongcun-Corr...duit/dp/B071Z3SRF1?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20


Sure. Google Smurf Tubing as well. Basically you just want a flexible non-metallic conduit. If you're worried about building codes then you'll want CL2/CL3 rated cabling/tubing.


----------



## tomiy1

Otto Pylot said:


> Sure. Google Smurf Tubing as well. Basically you just want a flexible non-metallic conduit. If you're worried about building codes then you'll want CL2/CL3 rated cabling/tubing.


So something like this would make routing new cables over 50ft+ runs much easier? 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-in-x-100-ft-ENT-Coil-Blue-12008-100/205874771

or this:
https://www.amazon.com/Carlon-SCJ4X1C-50-GUARD-CONDUIT-2-Inch/dp/B0008KL8YY


----------



## rgraylin

*Extender Key Digital KD-x222*

OK guys, been reading Epson 5040 forum for a while and learned a lot but came across a situation in need of your help.

May basement is almost completed and installer has been working on theater. I have an Epson 5040UB, Marantz 6011, PS4, and Samsung UBD-M9500 (mix up as I asked for Sony). The installer ran premium HDMI cable (~30') but other subs ruined the cable. The installed decided to use a Balun, Key Digital KD-x222 over single CAT6, as opposed to trying to run another HDMI cable as the basement is 95% done. Below are the specs for the Balun. My concern is that losing the premium HDMI cable means I'm giving up HDR today as well as future capability.

The Balun was installed today, and I tested what I could (no 4K HDR movies) using Samsung YouTube app streaming 4K HDR samples. I was unable to get an HDR signal, maybe not possible via Samsung/YouTube. Also was unable to get HDR signal even though PS4 recognizes Epson and allows setting of YPb... and Deep Color.

So what do you think based on below specs? I'm having trouble deciphering what I'm losing using a balun. Should I insist on the new Premium HDMI cable?

Specs (abbreviated):
HDBaseT via Single CAT5e/6 UTP/STP Extension: With fully automatic adjustment of feedback, equalization, and amplification depending on cabling length
Signal Extension:

Up to 150 ft. @ 4K 24/25/30(4:4:4)/60(4:2:0) using KD-CAT6STP1X cabling
Up to 125 ft. @ 4K 24/25/30(4:4:4)/60(4:2:0) using third-party CAT5e/6UTP/STP cabling
HDCP 2.2: Compliancy up to HDCP 2.2 and backward compliant
HDR (High Dynamic Range): More life-like images through a greater range of luminance levels
4K/Ultra HD Resolution: Support for 4096x2160 or 3840x2160 24/25/30Hz at 4:4:4/8 Bit or 60Hz at 4:2:0/8 Bit
Deep Color Support: Up to UHD/4K 30Hz 4:2:2/12 bits or 60Hz 4:2:0/8 bit
3D: Support for standard 3D stereoscopic signal formats
HDMI® and HDCP Licensing: Fully licensed and compatible with HDCP 2.2 and HDMI latest technology such as 4K/UHD 4:2:0/8bit at 60f/s


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## Otto Pylot

What kind of CAT-6 cable was used? Was it solid core CAT-6 (non-CCS) or was it CAT-6 ethernet patch cable? Personally I'd never run a traditional HDMI cable in-wall. Certainly not without using a conduit. Current HDMI cabling is not going to be able to handle future video standards. The use of solid copper core CAT-6, with active termination like HDBT, is probably your best bet for a longer term use than current HDMI cables, especially at lengths longer than 25'.


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## rgraylin

Ethernet patch. I do have conduit but it was for future pull, not for current HDMI cable.


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## Joe Fernand

tomiy1 - Fibre vs. CAT6 - for now Fibre has the edge in that there is no requirement to either limit the capabilities of the Source or compress/process the Source signal to allow it to run over the longer cable lengths. CAT6 has the 'advantage' of 'potentially' being able to swap out the attached TX/RX as new Extender chip sets arrive. As others have said a big conduit is the most 'future proof' option.

rgraylin - HDBT is a step behind what some of the Source devices can and will offer, there are new HDBT chips (with visually lossless compression) on the way. It may be worth confirming what is used in the Extender set you have - also try the various Inputs on your Display device - some may offer signal support that others do not. 

For HDR confirm which formats the Extender you have supports - Atlona have some new kit on the way which may offer the compatibility you require.

Joe


----------



## svfusion

I just bought these cables, 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SX4Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#Ask

One of the reviews says isn't doesn't do 4K [email protected] only 30hz 

How can I pick a cable and be sure it'll do 4K HDR @ 60hz

Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

rgraylin said:


> Ethernet patch. I do have conduit but it was for future pull, not for current HDMI cable.


Ethernet patch cable isn't going to cut it for the higher video standards (4k HDR @60Hz). You need to either lay solid core CAT-6 for future use (once the HDBT chipsets are available) or use something like fiber. Joe's advice is solid.


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## Otto Pylot

svfusion said:


> I just bought these cables,
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SX4Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#Ask
> 
> One of the reviews says isn't doesn't do 4K [email protected] only 30hz
> 
> How can I pick a cable and be sure it'll do 4K HDR @ 60hz
> 
> Thanks


You can't, at least not reliably. It's all trial and error at this point in time. Depending on the length of your run fiber may be your best bet. The mantra is still CONDUIT! CONDUIT! CONDUIT! for those long runs.


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## afrogt

svfusion said:


> I just bought these cables,
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SX4Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#Ask
> 
> One of the reviews says isn't doesn't do 4K [email protected] only 30hz
> 
> How can I pick a cable and be sure it'll do 4K HDR @ 60hz
> 
> Thanks


You buy one of these instead

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Ce...words=certified+premium+high+speed+hdmi+cable

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-...words=certified+premium+high+speed+hdmi+cable

https://www.amazon.com/Tera-Grand-C...words=certified+premium+high+speed+hdmi+cable


----------



## tiggers

Looks like I'm not the only one with this issue: New 4K tv won't pass more than basic 4k.
Here's the specifics of my current setup, FYI:
Xbox One S - 3ft 22awg Monoprice HDMI - HDMI Keystone Jack - 40ft Monoprice redmere HDMI cable - HDMI Keystone Jack - 6ft Monoprice certified premium highspeed 4k HDMI
What works with the above: 1080P, 4k at 30hz (with minor sparkles).
I know the shorter lengths of HDMI I have are just fine for passing 4k 60hz HDR, but the monoprice redmere seems to be the weak point for HDR/60hz as others have observed.

From what I have read here, and else where, it sounds like my best bets are either the Sewell 40ft S6 HDMI cable. (I wonder if the previous disappointed buyers on this thread accidentally ordered S4 or S5) or the 40ft Monoprice Cabernet Ultra HDMI cable. In addition, I was also going to get the Monoprice Blackbird 4K Pro HDMI® 2.0 Repeater for insurance.

So my first question is: How are people installing the female/female HDMI Blackbird repeater? Do they attach it close their source (Xbox in my case) with a very short cable to get the best signal boost? I see some Sewell S6 HDMI cables as short as 6" that I could use to replace the current 3ft HDMI cable I have to the wall ketstone jack. Or do they install it at the far-end, closer to the 4k TV?

I'm thinking a third option would be to remove the wall jacks (as nice and clean as it is to have them installed  ) and pull out the few feet of slack I have in the 40-ft to shorten the distance and remove more connection points. I had to do the same thing to get my older Xbox 360 kinect system to work reliably with the extended USB cable I also have ran.

Very curious to hear how people are connecting their equipment on the outside edge of these 25-50 ft runs with the Monoprice extender installed.


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## Otto Pylot

tiggers said:


> Very curious to hear how people are connecting their equipment on the outside edge of these 25-50 ft runs with the Monoprice extender installed.


Fiber optic with a conduit. Either Celerity or Ruipro. The conduit is for future cable pulls which you will probably have to do once HDMI 2.1 is the norm.


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## Joe Fernand

HDMI 'Repeaters' - do not 'boost' a signal rather they lift a signal which has gone below the required 5v and put it back at 5v; normally you would install a Repeater on the Sink (Display) end of a long cable, if you install it at the Source end of the cable the signal will likely still go 'low' over your long cable.


Terminated wall plates - I'd minimise all unnecessary breaks in the cable run, we always install 'Brush' style plates and pull the cable out through the Brush plate.


Fibre HDMI - as Otto suggests that has been our first choice for long cables to cater for UHD, anything over 8m I find unreliable with copper cables.


Joe


----------



## Graytwhyte

tiggers said:


> Looks like I'm not the only one with this issue: New 4K tv won't pass more than basic 4k.
> Here's the specifics of my current setup, FYI:
> Xbox One S - 3ft 22awg Monoprice HDMI - HDMI Keystone Jack - 40ft Monoprice redmere HDMI cable - HDMI Keystone Jack - 6ft Monoprice certified premium highspeed 4k HDMI
> What works with the above: 1080P, 4k at 30hz (with minor sparkles).
> I know the shorter lengths of HDMI I have are just fine for passing 4k 60hz HDR, but the monoprice redmere seems to be the weak point for HDR/60hz as others have observed.
> 
> From what I have read here, and else where, it sounds like my best bets are either the Sewell 40ft S6 HDMI cable. (I wonder if the previous disappointed buyers on this thread accidentally ordered S4 or S5) or the 40ft Monoprice Cabernet Ultra HDMI cable. In addition, I was also going to get the Monoprice Blackbird 4K Pro HDMI® 2.0 Repeater for insurance.
> 
> So my first question is: How are people installing the female/female HDMI Blackbird repeater? Do they attach it close their source (Xbox in my case) with a very short cable to get the best signal boost? I see some Sewell S6 HDMI cables as short as 6" that I could use to replace the current 3ft HDMI cable I have to the wall ketstone jack. Or do they install it at the far-end, closer to the 4k TV?
> 
> I'm thinking a third option would be to remove the wall jacks (as nice and clean as it is to have them installed  ) and pull out the few feet of slack I have in the 40-ft to shorten the distance and remove more connection points. I had to do the same thing to get my older Xbox 360 kinect system to work reliably with the extended USB cable I also have ran.
> 
> Very curious to hear how people are connecting their equipment on the outside edge of these 25-50 ft runs with the Monoprice extender installed.


I can tell you from my experience that the Cabernet won't pass 4k/60hz. At least the 40ft one I have from a couple of years ago. Does 4k/24hz just fine. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Glenee

Graytwhyte said:


> I can tell you from my experience that the Cabernet won't pass 4k/60hz. At least the 40ft one I have from a couple of years ago. Does 4k/24hz just fine.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Ive got a couple of the Cabernet 40 footers I am going to have to replace. What did you replace yours with ? Did you try the New Sewell's 40 footer S6, or did you just get tired of mukin around with it and run fiber ? What about the Monoprice fibers ? I am interested in HDR also.
Thanks,
Glen


----------



## Graytwhyte

Glenee said:


> Ive got a couple of the Cabernet 40 footers I am going to have to replace. What did you replace yours with ? Did you try the New Sewell's 40 footer S6, or did you just get tired of mukin around with it and run fiber ? What about the Monoprice fibers ? I am interested in HDR also.
> Thanks,
> Glen


I am to try one of the Sewell S6's, but I think I can get away with a 30 footer, so shorter should be better. If this doesn't work, I'm not sure I can swallow the price of fibers. The one test I saw from sound and vision didn't bode well for anything from Monoprice, except the certified premium in 25' and less. Good luck.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Glenee

On the monoprice note. I have already had 2 of the cheaper HDMI Certified go belly up. 1 on the sound side and the other on video and they were just 6 ftr's. They worked just fine for about a month and then the problems. The ruipro fibers are the least expensive for quality, I think.
Let me know what you decide and If I gain any more info on the situation I will post it here. Sure would like to know how you work out with the sewell S6.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ If you're going to push 4k HDR longer than about 25', fiber from either Celerity or Ruipro is probably going to be your best bet, albeit a bit pricey. Just run your cable in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation because it's all going to change again once HDMI 2.1 becomes widely adopted.


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## Glenee

I am leaning heavly that direction OTTO.


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## Nelchior

Hi Everyone, 


I attempted to find a solution to play my games in 4K on a TV that is about 12m away from the desktop computer streaming them. I tried Nvidia shield, didn't work out so well despite tge fact that I have a high end router. I tried flat hdmi cables, I could run my games in 4k, and it was working in 60hz, but HDR wouldn't work. (I would also use my PS4 pro using the same cable, PS4 is next to the desktop computer. I was fine with that setup in the meanwhile. 

About a month ago, my HDMI cable decided to stop working. It was a massive pain to put the cable under my floor, so I'd like to get it right this time. I purchased the same cable twice, 60Hz wouldn't work this time. I tried another cable that isn't flat, same thing. I'm desperate at this point. 

Does anyone know what I should do? Ideally I'd keep it wireless but I don't think it's gonna work, second best option would be a flat HDMI that supports HDR, 4K, 60hz and that is about 12.5m long. I could do without the HDR as my understanding is that cables that long supporting HDR are either non existent, or extremely pricey. 

Solutions anyone? 


Thanks in advance!!


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## Ricoflashback

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ If you're going to push 4k HDR longer than about 25', fiber from either Celerity or Ruipro is probably going to be your best bet, albeit a bit pricey. Just run your cable in a conduit if this is an in-wall installation because it's all going to change again once HDMI 2.1 becomes widely adopted.


Conduit makes sense but there are no TV's out there with HDMI 2.1 ports that I know of. If you've bought a new TV recently, then HDMI 2.0 will work fine. My upgrade cycle is around every five years, so HDMI 2.1 isn't a real concern for me, right now since my newer TV's will never have those ports. 

Regardless - - conduit makes sense, period. And fiber optic for long runs is also great advice.


----------



## Frank714

svfusion said:


> I just bought these cables,
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8SX4Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1#Ask
> 
> One of the reviews says isn't doesn't do 4K [email protected] only 30hz
> 
> How can I pick a cable and be sure it'll do 4K HDR @ 60hz



It's a rather new subject for myself, but unless I'm completely wrong getting yourself this UHD - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...ng-halftime-walk-ultra-hd-blu-ray-review.html - will enable you to test cable compatibility as program content on this UHD is 4K HDR @60Hz.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ricoflashback said:


> Conduit makes sense but there are no TV's out there with HDMI 2.1 ports that I know of. If you've bought a new TV recently, then HDMI 2.0 will work fine. My upgrade cycle is around every five years, so HDMI 2.1 isn't a real concern for me, right now since my newer TV's will never have those ports.
> 
> Regardless - - conduit makes sense, period. And fiber optic for long runs is also great advice.


HDMI 2.1 is still about a year or so away so you are correct that there aren't any devices configured yet. However, lots of people are popping woodies even now about what HDMI 2.1 is supposed to bring so they are upgrading their systems to at least get the full benefit if HDMI 2.0 4k HDR, thinking that what they put in now will work when they make the jump to HDMI 2.1. But, as we are seeing, using copper-based cables for even 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is extremely problematic for distances over about 20' - 25' so folks need to think very carefully about what they want to do now and in the future. Conduit is the only answer for "future proofing" so if you install that, along with maybe a couple of solid copper core CAT-6/6a cables (non-CCS or ethernet patch cable) for future copper cable needs, and a pull string, that's about all you can do. And if both ends of the conduit are close to an electrical outlet, you're all set for some sort of active termination as well.


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## doctorwizz

Most economical for a single 40ft run is 2 20ft Monoprice certifed, or 2 20ft KabelDirect pros with the Monoprice Blackbird repeater between them.
I use my Blackbird between a 20ft and a 15ft KDPro from PC to AVR. Perfect 4K/60 444 with HD Audio. 
3 20footers and 2 Blackbirds might work even. That is not tested yet by anyone. Blackbird is supposed to be good up to 75ft. But you first need good cables that can do 4K/60


----------



## denze

Glenee said:


> On the monoprice note. I have already had 2 of the cheaper HDMI Certified go belly up. 1 on the sound side and the other on video and they were just 6 ftr's. They worked just fine for about a month and then the problems. The ruipro fibers are the least expensive for quality, I think.
> Let me know what you decide and If I gain any more info on the situation I will post it here. Sure would like to know how you work out with the sewell S6.


To be clear is this the cable you purchased? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=27040. If that's the case, that's disappointing. Although, I can't say I'm not surprised when I ordered 30 XLR's from Monoprice. 3/4 of that bulk went out I guess due to build quality.


----------



## Glenee

denze said:


> To be clear is this the cable you purchased? https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=27040. If that's the case, that's disappointing. Although, I can't say I'm not surprised when I ordered 30 XLR's from Monoprice. 3/4 of that bulk went out I guess due to build quality.


Yes those are the ones. It could of been a Bad Batch, but I don't think so. I know there is a Lifetime guaranteed, but in my case I don't have the time or want to do something 2-3 times to be their quality control Agent. I have heard of people who run Monoprice and never have a problem.
Just not me and you.


----------



## Glenee

Has anyone here have experience with any of the fiber HDMI Cables ? i.e. Ruipro, Celerity, monoprices who I think are made by ruipro, sewell, for at least 50 ft runs ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> Has anyone here have experience with any of the fiber HDMI Cables ? i.e. Ruipro, Celerity, monoprices who I think are made by ruipro, sewell, for at least 50 ft runs ?


We've had quite a few positive reports from folks who have used either Celerity (the 18Gbps cable) or Ruipro. Nothing is guaranteed because a lot is dependent upon your hardware and how you have run cable run setup but either one seems to be what is working for most.


----------



## Glenee

Otto Pylot said:


> We've had quite a few positive reports from folks who have used either Celerity (the 18Gbps cable) or Ruipro. Nothing is guaranteed because a lot is dependent upon your hardware and how you have run cable run setup but either one seems to be what is working for most.


Thanks OTTO. I _am going to be hooking up a Oppo UDP-203 to a Samsung 75KS9000. I already know that the Monoprice cable I have now won't work for what I want. It's a run of 40 feet. Right on the Borderline._


----------



## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> Thanks OTTO. I _am going to be hooking up a Oppo UDP-203 to a Samsung 75KS9000. I already know that the Monoprice cable I have now won't work for what I want. It's a run of 40 feet. Right on the Borderline._


Actually the "borderline" for 4k HDR (If that's what you're trying to push) is much less than 40'. 1080p should be no problem at all but at 40'-50', I'd look at an active cable. Nobody is going to guarantee you anything above 25' so it's still all trial and error.


----------



## Glenee

Graytwhyte said:


> I am to try one of the Sewell S6's, but I think I can get away with a 30 footer, so shorter should be better. If this doesn't work, I'm not sure I can swallow the price of fibers. The one test I saw from sound and vision didn't bode well for anything from Monoprice, except the certified premium in 25' and less. Good luck.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Did you ever try the Sewell S6's ?


----------



## Graytwhyte

Glenee said:


> Did you ever try the Sewell S6's ?


No, not yet. I'm putting it off for a little while. I've got a few things to order from Sewell. Price on the 30' dropped by $5 to $29.99 with prime shipping on amazon though. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Glenee

I am going to give this one a try. There is a member here who has tested a lot of these fiber HDMI cables, and the general concensus is that this is a good as the others and cheaper. He thinks what I think, that this cable is made by the same people that make one of the other Higher cost ones. I will report about it here after I have had some time with it. This is the link to it.
https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21567


----------



## Vic_Romano

doctorwizz said:


> Most economical for a single 40ft run is 2 20ft Monoprice certifed, or 2 20ft KabelDirect pros with the Monoprice Blackbird repeater between them.
> I use my Blackbird between a 20ft and a 15ft KDPro from PC to AVR. Perfect 4K/60 444 with HD Audio.
> 3 20footers and 2 Blackbirds might work even. That is not tested yet by anyone. Blackbird is supposed to be good up to 75ft. But you first need good cables that can do 4K/60


Hi,

Do you lose ARC when using the Blackbird? I'd happily give up ARC if it meant I can chain 2 cables together. My setup requires that I route cables under my floors in a crawspace (oh I've been dirty many a times over the last month routing speaker wire lol). Does anyone know how to protect a blackbird in an environment like this? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I received a Monoprice 25 foot certified cable yesterday and also a 35 foot Lux cable. I tested both by connecting from my Denon AVR 730H to a LG C7 65". An Oppo UDP 203 is providing 4K playback. The Lux cable instantly caused sparkles. The certified cable seemed to work. The Oppo provides 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 (labeled as experimental wth?). I only tried 4:2:2 (watching John Wick 2), but I will try 4:4:4 when I get the correct test movie. 25 foot is the bare minimum that I need and I hope to find a longer cable. 30 feet would be perfect. I will try the Sewell Sewell S6 next. I'd prefer to stick to cheaper solutions (not having to buy a fiber cable helped me pay for a new dremel instead lol).


----------



## doctorwizz

Vic_Romano said:


> Hi,
> 
> Do you lose ARC when using the Blackbird? I'd happily give up ARC if it meant I can chain 2 cables together. My setup requires that I route cables under my floors in a crawspace (oh I've been dirty many a times over the last month routing speaker wire lol). Does anyone know how to protect a blackbird in an environment like this?
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I received a Monoprice 25 foot certified cable yesterday and also a 35 foot Lux cable. I tested both by connecting from my Denon AVR 730H to a LG C7 65". An Oppo UDP 203 is providing 4K playback. The Lux cable instantly caused sparkles. The certified cable seemed to work. The Oppo provides 4:4:4, 4:2:2, and 4:2:0 (labeled as experimental wth?). I only tried 4:2:2 (watching John Wick 2), but I will try 4:4:4 when I get the correct test movie. 25 foot is the bare minimum that I need and I hope to find a longer cable. 30 feet would be perfect. I will try the Sewell Sewell S6 next. I'd prefer to stick to cheaper solutions (not having to buy a fiber cable helped me pay for a new dremel instead lol).


Good question. I haven't used the BB between the TV and AVR yet. I can test it later.


----------



## netroamer

*Bullet Train Cables*

I came across these and ordered both 2M and 10M cables. The 10m is passive, but they absolutely guarantee consistent 18gbps performance. Also of interest it that each cable has a unique serial number, at each end, to track its' history. Also helps in cable management. I will give them a vigorous test when they arrive.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Is the Sewell Silverback S6 "Premium HDMI Certified"? I don't see the logo and I have to guess that it isn't despite it being called a "Premium HDMI" cable. I hate myself for even having to ask a question like this.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> I came across these and ordered both 2M and 10M cables. The 10m is passive, but they absolutely guarantee consistent 18gbps performance. Also of interest it that each cable has a unique serial number, at each end, to track its' history. Also helps in cable management. I will give them a vigorous test when they arrive.


How do they absolutely guarantee reliable 18Gbps? Any cable mfr who makes a claim like that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Do they provide a certificate of compliance? 30' for a passive copper cable guaranteeing 18Gbps is dubious at best. You may get lucky and they will work fine for you. Good luck.


----------



## netroamer

Otto Pylot said:


> How do they absolutely guarantee reliable 18Gbps? Any cable mfr who makes a claim like that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Do they provide a certificate of compliance? 30' for a passive copper cable guaranteeing 18Gbps is dubious at best. You may get lucky and they will work fine for you. Good luck.


Thanks, but luck will not play a factor. I have all the test equipment to interrogate these cables with every permutation of 4k available, except Dolby Vision, before testing them in system. If they do not survive the first tests, they go back! If they do, I will give them a in-system test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> Thanks, but luck will not play a factor. I have all the test equipment to interrogate these cables with every permutation of 4k available, except Dolby Vision, before testing them in system. If they do not survive the first tests, they go back! If they do, I will give them a in-system test.


Excellent. At least you're better off than 99% of the people who purchase cables solely on the mfr description and then wonder why they can't get 4k UHD at 50'.


----------



## Glenee

Vic_Romano said:


> Is the Sewell Silverback S6 "Premium HDMI Certified"? I don't see the logo and I have to guess that it isn't despite it being called a "Premium HDMI" cable. I hate myself for even having to ask a question like this.


No it is not. I don't think anyone can offer certification past 12-15 feet ( or something like that) I think I remember OTTO saying something like that.


----------



## Glenee

Otto. Mr. netroamer don't play, He quit school cause of recess. I am going to be real interested in what you come up with on those Bullet Train Cables. They sure are Bold in their statements.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Glenee said:


> No it is not. I don't think anyone can offer certification past 12-15 feet ( or something like that) I think I remember OTTO saying something like that.


I read a review on soundandvision comparing BJC, Celerity, and Monoprice cables. One of the Monoprice cables in that review was certified and was 20'. I'm fairly certain that the 25' Monoprice certified cable that I bought also carries the hologram, but I'll check when I get home. More importantly, 25' cable works for me.


----------



## Glenee

Ok. My rememberer is off. When someone finds out the max distance certified please post here. The longest Certified Premium HDMI I can find is 25 Ft. I could find None of the sewell's that carry the HDMI Hologram. That don't mean they don't exsist I can just not find any Proof.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Glenee said:


> Ok. My rememberer is off. When someone finds out the max distance certified please post here. The longest Certified Premium HDMI I can find is 25 Ft. I could find None of the sewell's that carry the HDMI Hologram. That don't mean they don't exsist I can just not find any Proof.


My Monoprice 25' cable is certified. I ran the mobile authenticator application to authenticate. TBH, I bought this only in the hope that I had at least a small guarantee that it would work. Sticker or no sticker I'm happy that it works. But at only 25' I have almost no slack between my TV and AVR.

The Sewell cable is probably not certified and even if does work I may not swap cables. I don't think I can stomach swapping cables (a 35 footer will give me slack and make me feel much better about it) by taking another trek into the crawl space lol.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^ certification up to 25' is for 1080p. Anything past that is marketing. Some cable work, some don't. At 35', you're on your own. Without a conduit in place, you may be visiting your crawl space more than you want.


----------



## h3X0r1911

Hi just a little story I have to tell. 
My devices: 

-PC with gtx 1060 (supporting [email protected])
-Onkyo TX-NR555 AV Receiver (Supporting [email protected])
-Samsung TV KU6000 (Supporting [email protected])

All looks fabulous and perfect, [email protected] together with HDR, when connected from PC straight to TV. I use according to manufacturer "Transfer speed up to 27Gbps HDMI cable", I have 6ft and10ft cable, both the same brand. Both works fine. 

BUT when I connect AV receiver in between, things do not looks so sweet anymore. I have a problem with video "glitches" from time to time, when playing mkv/m2ts file with audio like Atmos or DTS:X, sound rattle from time to time or pause for half a second or something. All those bugs are happening when refresh rate is set to 59 or 60Hz in graphic card. When set to 30Hz all problems are gone. 

I can't believe that ONKYO receiver is to blame. I bet those cables are not capable to handle data transfer of [email protected] plus multichannel audio. Today I will go to shop and I will change that 10ft cable for a shorter; 6ft same brand cable. I hope it might work, if not, all my hopes and money spend for [email protected] joy will fade away, I will be disappointed. 

How do you thinks guys, is that possible to connect my devices somehow and have that [email protected], or give up, forget about it and just stick to 30Hz?

I will update if shorter HDMI cable worked for me.


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> How do they absolutely guarantee reliable 18Gbps? Any cable mfr who makes a claim like that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Do they provide a certificate of compliance? 30' for a passive copper cable guaranteeing 18Gbps is dubious at best. You may get lucky and they will work fine for you. Good luck.


Here's a few of pics of the actual bullet train cable testing before shipping.


----------



## Glenee

sonoftumble said:


> Here's a few of pics of the actual bullet train cable testing before shipping.


what kind of pricing are these cables ? Please point me in the n the direction for pricing.


----------



## Balbolito

I have tried at least 4 brands before switching to Wireworld.

Monster,BetterCables, and a couple of generic brands.

Nothing comes close to Wireworld especially for longer HDMI runs (30ft and above) 

Have a look at their current 7 series HDMI cables directly from them here

Even if you get a cheap cable that does the job from another brand, the image quality,, black levels, colors and other things do look different. This is my opinion based on comparing the above in the same room with the same projector.

I have their Ultraviolet HDMI which i am using for 4k with zero issues, put on mind my cable is about 6 years old, when at the time 1080p wasn't maybe even standard! 

you can even get some good deals on eBay on their 6 series (last gen) HDMI cables. 

Best to get something that would last and not have to upgrade or change for a while. 

One of the best investments i have made.


----------



## Glenee

Balbolito said:


> I have tried at least 4 brands before switching to Wireworld.
> 
> Monster,BetterCables, and a couple of generic brands.
> 
> Nothing comes close to Wireworld especially for longer HDMI runs (30ft and above)
> 
> Have a look at their current 7 series HDMI cables directly from them here
> 
> Even if you get a cheap cable that does the job from another brand, the image quality,, black levels, colors and other things do look different. This is my opinion based on comparing the above in the same room with the same projector.
> 
> I have their Ultraviolet HDMI which i am using for 4k with zero issues, put on mind my cable is about 6 years old, when at the time 1080p wasn't maybe even standard!
> 
> you can even get some good deals on eBay on their 6 series (last gen) HDMI cables.
> 
> Best to get something that would last and not have to upgrade or change for a while.
> 
> One of the best investments i have made.


 What does a 40 footer cost ? Can it do 4K 60h Hdr at 40 ft ?
Thanks,
Glen


----------



## Balbolito

Glenee said:


> What does a 40 footer cost ? Can it do 4K 60h Hdr at 40 ft ?
> Thanks,
> Glen


The 40ft Island can and its 170$

Several friends using it on 4K 60hz and HDR material all fine.

all my HDMI cables are the Ultraviolet and am more than happy. does everything even 3D looks fantastic on it.


----------



## Glenee

Balbolito said:


> The 40ft Island can and its 170$
> 
> Several friends using it on 4K 60hz and HDR material all fine.
> 
> all my HDMI cables are the Ultraviolet and am more than happy. does everything even 3D looks fantastic on it.


Thanks for the info. I am looking into them right now. What model (there are several) are your friends using that are 40Ft and they are getting 4K 60Hz HDR fine with ?


----------



## h3X0r1911

h3X0r1911 said:


> Hi just a little story I have to tell.
> My devices:
> 
> -PC with gtx 1060 (supporting [email protected])
> -Onkyo TX-NR555 AV Receiver (Supporting [email protected])
> -Samsung TV KU6000 (Supporting [email protected])
> 
> All looks fabulous and perfect, [email protected] together with HDR, when connected from PC straight to TV. I use according to manufacturer "Transfer speed up to 27Gbps HDMI cable", I have 6ft and10ft cable, both the same brand. Both works fine.
> 
> BUT when I connect AV receiver in between, things do not looks so sweet anymore. I have a problem with video "glitches" from time to time, when playing mkv/m2ts file with audio like Atmos or DTS:X, sound rattle from time to time or pause for half a second or something. All those bugs are happening when refresh rate is set to 59 or 60Hz in graphic card. When set to 30Hz all problems are gone.
> 
> I can't believe that ONKYO receiver is to blame. I bet those cables are not capable to handle data transfer of [email protected] plus multichannel audio. Today I will go to shop and I will change that 10ft cable for a shorter; 6ft same brand cable. I hope it might work, if not, all my hopes and money spend for [email protected] joy will fade away, I will be disappointed.
> 
> How do you thinks guys, is that possible to connect my devices somehow and have that [email protected], or give up, forget about it and just stick to 30Hz?
> 
> I will update if shorter HDMI cable worked for me.


OK update, I replaced today in the shop 10ft long 27Gbps HDMI cable for a shorter one, 6 ft also 27Gbps cable, same brand ... And it work! I am happy now, finally perfect [email protected]+Atmos+HDR on PC>AV Receiver>TV.
I have one advice for you all, keep cables as short as possible, too long cables just don't work, no matter how good they are and how much they costs. I just saw a 25 ft long cable which pass 18Gbps test, but ... costs 5000 $ LOL
Need to wait for new 2.1 HDMI standard to have long and high speed cables. 
Have a good day.


----------



## Glenee

h3X0r1911 said:


> OK update, I replaced today in the shop 10ft long 27Gbps HDMI cable for a shorter one, 6 ft also 27Gbps cable, same brand ... And it work! I am happy now, finally perfect [email protected]+Atmos+HDR on PC>AV Receiver>TV.
> I have one advice for you all, keep cables as short as possible, too long cables just don't work, no matter how good they are and how much they costs. I just saw a 25 ft long cable which pass 18Gbps test, but ... costs 5000 $ LOL
> Need to wait for new 2.1 HDMI standard to have long and high speed cables.
> Have a good day.


It is amazing how some do and some don't. Cables that is.


----------



## Glenee

Ok the numbers I am getting on the Wireworld cables are from Wireworld website. 
All of these are 40 Ftr's on price the length is the longest Wireworld will stand behind to pass 18Gbps.
Island = $170.00 3.0m 18 Gbps
Ultraviolet $400.00 5.0m 18 Gbps
Platinum $8000.00 7.0m 18gps
Prices are Full Retail.
Wireworld makes some exceptional cables in the way of speaker, and interconnects, but it looks like their limit on 18 Gbps is around 22 feet for $8000.00.
They are most likely able to do better than this, just like a lot of cables that are not HDMI Premium Certified.
There's the scoop.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sonoftumble said:


> Here's a few of pics of the actual bullet train cable testing before shipping.


Pics are nice but we've had mfrs post "testing" pics before. What I look for is a certificate or something that shows that the particular cable you purchased was indeed tested by a standardized protocol, and not just "batch tested" which a lot of mfrs do and then just "transfer" that certification to the rest of the batch run, regardless of length. At these prices I certainly hope that the cables are individually tested and certified.


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## Otto Pylot

h3X0r1911 said:


> Need to wait for new 2.1 HDMI standard to have long and high speed cables.
> Have a good day.


You're gonna have a long wait. When the HDMI 2.1 spec was initially announced, the cables for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) had a maximum length of around 6'. Hopefully that will change once the spec is integrated into hardware and there is decent source material. Other than that, the "48Gbps High Speed HDMI Cable" is going to be expensive.


----------



## Balbolito

Glenee said:


> Ok the numbers I am getting on the Wireworld cables are from Wireworld website.
> All of these are 40 Ftr's on price the length is the longest Wireworld will stand behind to pass 18Gbps.
> Island = $170.00 3.0m 18 Gbps
> Ultraviolet $400.00 5.0m 18 Gbps
> Platinum $8000.00 7.0m 18gps
> Prices are Full Retail.
> Wireworld makes some exceptional cables in the way of speaker, and interconnects, but it looks like their limit on 18 Gbps is around 22 feet for $8000.00.
> They are most likely able to do better than this, just like a lot of cables that are not HDMI Premium Certified.
> There's the scoop.


All my cables are about 6 years old (Ultraviolet 6) and they work with 4k @60hz and HDR fine. never had one single issue. even while gaming on my ps4 pro at 4k everything is fine. 

I am even running my 40ft cable in-walls with no issues.

So i am sure the newer ones which are series 7 are even upgraded and improved.

And yes my friends are using the Island 7 cable for 4K with no issues.

on the other hand 18GB is what you need for 4K content @60hz

I'll keep my cables for at least another 2-3 years till 8k is the standard, maybe even longer then just upgrade them. by that time i would have them for 10 years!


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## Dreamliner

Glenee said:


> Platinum $8000.00 7.0m 18gps


lol


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> Island = $170.00 3.0m 18 Gbps
> Ultraviolet $400.00 5.0m 18 Gbps
> Platinum $8000.00 7.0m 18gps


A fool and his money are soon parted.


----------



## doctorwizz

Get the MP Blackbird and 2 20ft MP certified cables and save thousands!!!


----------



## Glenee

I am a firm believer that anyone should spend their earned money any way they see fit. My wife spends money on things I never would. I am just pointing out that the specs for the Wireworld 40 footer's will not work for me. I also have great respect for Otto and Doctorwizz and I read and follow their post. The Drwizz solution will not work for me cause all my cable go from the back of the room to the front in a 2 inch PVC Pipe in the concrete pad in the floor. I can't get a MP Blackbird into the pipe half way there. I have to run 40 feet continous from cabinet to Display. I do agree that in most cases that would be the fix.
I would not under any circumstances run a $8000 HDMI cord, Im too Old and my eyes can't see the difference. It is also way out of my league cost wise.
Mr. Balbolito is having some great success with his lower model WW HDMI cables. 
I am trying to get 4K 60Hz HDR Video from a Oppo 203 to a Samsung KS9000 over 40 ft. I have a $ 150.00 Fiber optic HDMI cable coming at the suggestion of Otto. Lets Hope it works.
Thanks for everyone's Help I really appreciate it.
All the Best,
Glen


----------



## Joe Fernand

The metallurgy, 'build quality', marketing guff or retail price of any cable will have zero effect on the 'quality' of the image a cable delivers

You either get an image, an image with very obvious artifacts, an intermittent image or no image. 

HDMI carries a highly encrypted signal - you cannot alter the signal unless you decode, alter and re-encode it.

Joe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> The metallurgy, 'build quality', marketing guff or retail price of any cable will have zero effect on the 'quality' of the image a cable delivers
> 
> You either get an image, an image with very obvious artifacts, an intermittent image or no image.
> 
> HDMI carries a highly encrypted signal - you cannot alter the signal unless you decode, alter and re-encode it.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But Joe, the cable connectors are gold plated with oxygen-free and nitrogen sealed wiring. That has to keep the atoms perfectly aligned which would result in better auido/video fidelity


----------



## utee05

I am finally getting a 4K tv, 65C7p. I will also at some point get an AVR to go with it but for now I want to get one maybe 2 cables that will need to run 6' through the conduit I have. One cable for ARC and the other to use with my current receiver to connect my current devices. Main reason to get them now so I can run the cables at once now to avoid having to take the TV later on once I get the new AVR. 

I currently am using one 6' monoprice ultra slim high speed cable (#109889) but don't think that will sufficient.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At 6' max length, almost any passive, High Speed HDMI cable will work. It's the active ones that you may issues with for ARC. A single passive cable should work just fine for ARC but you might want to consider a slightly thicker gauge than the ultra thin. Just be mindful of bend radius. Being as you're installing cable in-conduit, I would also lay in a solid copper core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) for possible future cable needs. The cable ends are not terminated so you'll have to terminate them, probably with HDBT once the newer chipsets are available, for the higher video standards. In the meantime, just give yourself some extra service loop and coil the cable inside the outlet box if you're not just doing a straight thru connection. Keep in mind that 4k UHD is very demanding but you should be ok at 6'. Test before you install the cable in-conduit to make sure that your expectations are met.


----------



## MATA7

i was on the same situation, need a 100ft HDMI brought 2 on amazon from 2 different brands and they both fail, finally got the 30m "100ft" from RUIPRO and now i have perfect [email protected]+HDR to my New Sony 940E trough my Yamaha 5100, btw the guys is really great to deal this cable really work


----------



## utee05

Otto Pylot said:


> At 6' max length, almost any passive, High Speed HDMI cable will work. It's the active ones that you may issues with for ARC. A single passive cable should work just fine for ARC but you might want to consider a slightly thicker gauge than the ultra thin. Just be mindful of bend radius. Being as you're installing cable in-conduit, I would also lay in a solid copper core CAT-6 cable (non-CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable) for possible future cable needs. The cable ends are not terminated so you'll have to terminate them, probably with HDBT once the newer chipsets are available, for the higher video standards. In the meantime, just give yourself some extra service loop and coil the cable inside the outlet box if you're not just doing a straight thru connection. Keep in mind that 4k UHD is very demanding but you should be ok at 6'. Test before you install the cable in-conduit to make sure that your expectations are met.


Thanks for the suggestion. Yes the bend radius was a bit worrisome with the thicker cables so I'll be mindful of that.


----------



## fizban11

Keeping in mind that some cables work for some systems and not others, I have had success with two Active Fiber Optical 30ft (+) cables, one from MyCableMart SA-SHDC-8700-10 ($175 US) and one from Monoprice #21566 ($150 US.)

The MyCableMart SA-SHDC-8700-10 is a fiber/copper hybird and it works between my Marantz AV8802A and SR6011 to both my 2015 Sammy models UN65JS9500 and UN55JS9000. It did NOT work coming from my Pioneer Elite VSX-90 to either TV. It has a new gen chip in each end that no longer requires the USB power module. Although, to be fair, the description is not uniform as it shows it to be 35ft and 33ft. The packaging when it arrived showed 10m.

After ArrowAV published their testing report, I purchased the Monoprice #21566. It works between my Marantz AV8802A and SR6011 to both my 2015 Sammy models UN65JS9500 and UN55JS9000. I did not try it with the Pioneer Elite VSX-90 as I replaced it with the SR6011 and relegated it to Patio speakers only. I got tired of trying to make it work. ArrowAV also tested this cable in 50ft length and it passed all their tests. It was worth a shot, and it paid off.

Both cables from each Marantz unit give me 4K 59.940Hz (recommended) 4:2:2 12-bit, Rec.2020 signals from separate Nvidia Shield Pro's (2017) with Marantz video conversion OFF (Native signal.) When I set Marantz video conversion ON to 4K (50/60) all my volume/info screen overlays from the Marantz are fully visible in addition to the video signal. Full Netflix and Amazon HDR signals. Both TV's report 3840x2160/60Hz with UHD color ON. I do not have a UHD player to test, but I can tell you that no signal came through from either Marantz unit with any other cable I have tried when the Marantz video conversion was set to 4k (50/60).

I hope this helps someone out there.


----------



## sonoftumble

Glenee said:


> what kind of pricing are these cables ? Please point me in the n the direction for pricing.


Sorry for the delay. Been out of town. Here's the link: http://www.avprostore.com/category-s/2083.htm


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> Pics are nice but we've had mfrs post "testing" pics before. What I look for is a certificate or something that shows that the particular cable you purchased was indeed tested by a standardized protocol, and not just "batch tested" which a lot of mfrs do and then just "transfer" that certification to the rest of the batch run, regardless of length. At these prices I certainly hope that the cables are individually tested and certified.


Certificates cost. How much do you want to pay for an individually certified cable? The bullet trains are individually tested and guaranteed. It's probably cheeper to buy the test gear + the "tested-but-not-individually-certified cables than to buy an individually certified cable itself. Of course you could go with fiber on those long runs and problem solved.


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> But Joe, the cable connectors are gold plated with oxygen-free and nitrogen sealed wiring. That has to keep the atoms perfectly aligned which would result in better auido/video fidelity


Don't you have to test the individual metal molecules on the terminators to ensure proper polarity? If their polarity is not properly aligned, DV will not play. I'm certain that the certified cables do that as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sonoftumble said:


> Don't you have to test the individual metal molecules on the terminators to ensure proper polarity? If their polarity is not properly aligned, DV will not play. I'm certain that the certified cables do that as well.


To answer your first response, yes, certification costs and that's why a lot of cable mfrs do not want to join the ATC (Authorized Testing Centers) offered by HDMI.org. The nice thing about ATCs is that they are not cable mfr dependent so as long as you get that certificate of compliance, you know that the cable was tested and certified by standardized protocols and procedures. Even then, that's not 100% guaranteed that the cable will work for your particular setup. That's especially true when you go over 25' because I don't think there are any ATC certified cables over that length. Cables, in general, seem to be a scam the way they are marketed, the specs they claim, and the cost. High cost does not guarantee anything, but it does confuse the consumer who doesn't want to take the time to learn and research.

As to your second response, I do believe that molecular alignment is part of ATC testing 

A cable can not produce better audio/video fidelity. The signal either gets to the source without issues or it doesn't.


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> A cable can not produce better audio/video fidelity. The signal either gets to the source without issues or it doesn't.


Exactly. Digital is as they say - Digital.


----------



## doctorwizz

Tested to see if 4k HDR and ARC work with the Monoprice Blackbird Extender. Both work perfectly. 
I used KabelDirect Pro HDMI cables which are known working with 444 4K/60 Atmos HDR. YMMV

Don't forget the Blackbird is directional.


----------



## bcabes

Sharing my experience here for others that may have been as stupid as me not to run conduit in their home theaters.

I just updated to a RS400 from AVScience and I am really happy with it. The only problem is that I could not get 4K HDR through the 50' HDMI cable that I ran in the ceiling a few years ago when building my home theater. I tried 3 different HDMI 4K repeaters including the Monoprice Blackbird and did not have any luck.

I just installed an HDFury Linker into my system. With that I was able to have the linker downscale the Xbox One S to 4K 4:2:0 8 bit HDR at 60 fps and 4:2:2 12 bit HDR at 24fps. Not ideal, but it will have to do for now.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Vic_Romano said:


> Is the Sewell Silverback S6 "Premium HDMI Certified"? I don't see the logo and I have to guess that it isn't despite it being called a "Premium HDMI" cable. I hate myself for even having to ask a question like this.


The 35" Sewell Silverback S6 didn't pass a 4K signal. My nVidia shield provides a fairly clear description of what resolutions and color spaces are supported. When I connected the S6 cable I had only one option: 1080p. Sending it back.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vic_Romano said:


> The 35" Sewell Silverback S6 didn't pass a 4K signal. My nVidia shield provides a fairly clear description of what resolutions and color spaces are supported. When I connected the S6 cable I had only one option: 1080p. Sending it back.


"Premium HDMI Certified" is just a slick marketing term to make the consumer think they are getting a certified high speed hdmi cable. What you are looking for is a "Premium High Speed HDMI" cable with the QR label. Premium High Speed HDMI is the trademarked name for an ATC certified ( HDMI.org) cable. Sewell started posting here a few months back and whoever they had posting couldn't answer direct questions about certification. They do make good cables, and they do work for some, but the marketing techniques they use are just like anybody else. Vague.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Otto Pylot said:


> "Premium HDMI Certified" is just a slick marketing term to make the consumer think they are getting a certified high speed hdmi cable. What you are looking for is a "Premium High Speed HDMI" cable with the QR label. Premium High Speed HDMI is the trademarked name for an ATC certified ( HDMI.org) cable. Sewell started posting here a few months back and whoever they had posting couldn't answer direct questions about certification. They do make good cables, and they do work for some, but the marketing techniques they use are just like anybody else. Vague.


Yup, I got duped lol. I let wishful thinking get in the way of rational thought. I have a real premium high speed certified cable from Monoprice and you bet I checked the hologram lol. The Monoprice 25' cable works as advertised. I just wish it was 5 feet longer. 25' seems to be the maximum cable length right now for real certified cables.

I kinda knew the Sewell cable wasn't certified (no hologram advertised anywhere was a dead give away). No hologram, not certified, no matter the description.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Vic_Romano said:


> Yup, I got duped lol. I let wishful thinking get in the way of rational thought. I have a real premium high speed certified cable from Monoprice and you bet I checked the hologram lol. The Monoprice 25' cable works as advertised. I just wish it was 5 feet longer. 25' seems to be the maximum cable length right now for real certified cables.
> 
> I kinda knew the Sewell cable wasn't certified (no hologram advertised anywhere was a dead give away). No hologram, not certified, no matter the description.


25' is the maximum ATC certified length which is basically 1080p HDMI 1.4. Once you get into the 4k HDR area, even that becomes difficult. Cable mfrs will label cables as certified but you really don't know what that means or if their certification protocols are standardized or not. From what I understand, it ain't cheap to get ATC certification so that's why it's not an industry standard, even tho their are lots of ATC's around the world who test and certify for numerous cable mfrs. Some mfrs do have their own in-house certification program which is pretty good but you have to look carefully and find someone who is willing to answer your questions. DPL Labs is one and BlueJeans is another one (even tho I think they use ATC's).


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> 25' is the maximum ATC certified length which is basically 1080p HDMI 1.4. Once you get into the 4k HDR area, even that becomes difficult. Cable mfrs will label cables as certified but you really don't know what that means or if their certification protocols are standardized or not. From what I understand, it ain't cheap to get ATC certification so that's why it's not an industry standard, even tho their are lots of ATC's around the world who test and certify for numerous cable mfrs. Some mfrs do have their own in-house certification program which is pretty good but you have to look carefully and find someone who is willing to answer your questions. DPL Labs is one and BlueJeans is another one (even tho I think they use ATC's).


I don't really care if they're certified. I just want to know that they were tested before they were shipped out. Just because the cable was certified doesn't mean it was actually tested. If it has a problem, you send it back. If it was fully tested beforehand the chances of having to return the cable are reduced to nil. Saves time and money.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Anyone shipping cables in bulk (to keep costs down) is not going to be testing individual cables - many resellers will not go near the fulfilment process.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

sonoftumble said:


> I don't really care if they're certified. I just want to know that they were tested before they were shipped out. Just because the cable was certified doesn't mean it was actually tested. If it has a problem, you send it back. If it was fully tested beforehand the chances of having to return the cable are reduced to nil. Saves time and money.


Testing and certification are two different things. And depending on who the cable mfr is, that could be as simple as plugging it in to a source/sink device and if a signal is detected, it's good to go. Or actually doing some sort of HDMI spec testing. As to testing each and every cable I doubt if any mfr does that. However, some are better at batch testing than others and some actually batch test each length of cable they sell, not just test one length and apply that to the rest of the line. Unfortunately, how all of that is achieved is not readily available to the consumer. Some mfrs will randomly test only 1 cable per hundred.

All you can do is use your best judgement, thoroughly test before you install because your connected devices also play a part, and return if it doesn't meet your needs or expectations. That's where a conduit comes in for runs longer than about 20' for 4k HDR. This has been really frustrating for consumers and is only going to get worse, probably much worse, with HDMI 2.1.


----------



## sonoftumble

Joe Fernand said:


> Anyone shipping cables in bulk (to keep costs down) is not going to be testing individual cables - many resellers will not go near the fulfilment process.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Otto Pylot said:


> Testing and certification are two different things. And depending on who the cable mfr is, that could be as simple as plugging it in to a source/sink device and if a signal is detected, it's good to go. Or actually doing some sort of HDMI spec testing. As to testing each and every cable I doubt if any mfr does that. However, some are better at batch testing than others and some actually batch test each length of cable they sell, not just test one length and apply that to the rest of the line. Unfortunately, how all of that is achieved is not readily available to the consumer. Some mfrs will randomly test only 1 cable per hundred.
> 
> All you can do is use your best judgement, thoroughly test before you install because your connected devices also play a part, and return if it doesn't meet your needs or expectations. That's where a conduit comes in for runs longer than about 20' for 4k HDR. This has been really frustrating for consumers and is only going to get worse, probably much worse, with HDMI 2.1.


The Bullet Train cables are actually individually tested by the distributor. They are not the manufacturer, but they found it was cheaper to test the cables then to deal with the costs associated with returns. If the cable doesn't pass the test, they send those back to the manufacturer. They get high customer sat scores with that approach. They test all speeds, resolutions, HDR and logic. Pretty cool with no surprises waiting for you after installation. I don't have any skin in this game, just like to share something I came across.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ I finally checked out your link and damn! those cables are expensive. However, they are ATC certified so that accounts for some of the cost (not much tho). Cable costs are only going to get higher because of demand. Pretty soon the cost of 50' cable will be half the price of the panel it is connected to.


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## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^^ I finally checked out your link and damn! those cables are expensive. However, they are ATC certified so that accounts for some of the cost (not much tho). Cable costs are only going to get higher because of demand. Pretty soon the cost of 50' cable will be half the price of the panel it is connected to.


Supposedly there will be CAT 6 wires coming soon that will be able to support 18Gb data speeds. It will take a special distribution balun or matrix box. Also, prices for optical are starting to come down. That's probably the best solution. 150' runs are no problem.


----------



## Glenee

https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21567
Ok, I now have some info on the Fiber cable above. I have run it thru all the test I know how to do. I ran it on Billy Lynn's Long Half time Walk 4K 60 HDR at 50 Feet and it passed all my needs perfectly. The drawback to this cable is No ARC. It passes Dolby Atmos and can be verified on the Display. If you sign up for email notifications you will get a nice discount on this cable some where around 20%. The Warranty is your lifetime I think, and 30 Days full refund.


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## Otto Pylot

sonoftumble said:


> Supposedly there will be CAT 6 wires coming soon that will be able to support 18Gb data speeds. It will take a special distribution balun or matrix box. Also, prices for optical are starting to come down. That's probably the best solution. 150' runs are no problem.


Solid core CAT-6 can already support 18Gbps and higher. The problem is the HDMI chipsets are not up to the task yet. That's why a lot of us recommend running conduit and laying in a solid core CAT-6 cable or two for future connections for those runs longer than about 25'.


----------



## sonoftumble

Otto Pylot said:


> Solid core CAT-6 can already support 18Gbps and higher. The problem is the HDMI chipsets are not up to the task yet. That's why a lot of us recommend running conduit and laying in a solid core CAT-6 cable or two for future connections for those runs longer than about 25'.


Or you can use these: http://www.avproconnect.com/ac-ex70-uhd-70m--4k.html


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## Otto Pylot

sonoftumble said:


> Or you can use these: http://www.avproconnect.com/ac-ex70-uhd-70m--4k.html


HDBT is the way to go for long runs but not all HDBT connections have current enough HDMI chipsets to work reliably. HDBT has always been the go to for 1080p and those really long runs but 4k HDR is still a bit dicey. It's going to get better but mfrs don't seem to want to include the version of chipsets used so it's still a bit of a roll of the dice.


----------



## netroamer

netroamer said:


> I came across these and ordered both 2M and 10M cables. The 10m is passive, but they absolutely guarantee consistent 18gbps performance. Also of interest it that each cable has a unique serial number, at each end, to track its' history. Also helps in cable management. I will give them a vigorous test when they arrive.


The 10M passed the 18ghz interrogation via the test equipment. However it failed to produce an image on the Sony VPL-VW5000ES projector sent by a Lumagen Pro Video Processor. This projector is notorious for being extremely critical of cables. The 2M cables work fine at 4k60.


----------



## tomiy1

Otto Pylot said:


> Solid core CAT-6 can already support 18Gbps and higher. The problem is the HDMI chipsets are not up to the task yet. That's why a lot of us recommend running conduit and laying in a solid core CAT-6 cable or two for future connections for those runs longer than about 25'.


Is it worth going CAT7 routed in the conduit to "future proof" speeds or will CAT6A do just as well if/when HDMI 2.1 baluns/extenders come out?


----------



## Otto Pylot

tomiy1 said:


> Is it worth going CAT7 routed in the conduit to "future proof" speeds or will CAT6A do just as well if/when HDMI 2.1 baluns/extenders come out?


If you can afford it, it couldn't hurt to have an extra solid core CAT-6/7 cable in the conduit. There is no guarantee that solid core will work for HDMI 2.1 though. Early reports that the cable needed to have a 48Gbps bandwidth but may be restricted to around 10' length. That will probably change (hopefully) but fully compliant HDMI 2.1 (eARC for example) may require wiring needs yet to be determined (or disclosed).


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> If you can afford it, it couldn't hurt to have an extra solid core CAT-6/7 cable in the conduit. There is no guarantee that solid core will work for HDMI 2.1 though. Early reports that the cable needed to have a 48Gbps bandwidth but may be restricted to around 10' length. That will probably change (hopefully) but fully compliant HDMI 2.1 (eARC for example) may require wiring needs yet to be determined (or disclosed).


I don't know how one will get 48Gbps through Cat6a which was rated at 10 Gbps in March.


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## tomiy1

Postmoderndesign said:


> I don't know how one will get 48Gbps through Cat6a which was rated at 10 Gbps in March.




So cat6a can't even do hdmi 2.0a [email protected]? I thought it could 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> I don't know how one will get 48Gbps through Cat6a which was rated at 10 Gbps in March.


Sorry if I wasn't clear but I never said that solid core CAT-6 would do 48Gbps. For future proofing, it's still not a bad idea to lay in some solid copper core CAT-6/7 cable, not ethernet CAT-6 cable. The whole idea of HDMI 2.1 is going to be a nightmare for long runs but if one is going to lay cable in-conduit, having solid core has lots of advantages for the future.


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## Joe Fernand

Conduit, dual CAT6, Fibre - all potential options at present until we see what the hardware techs come up with.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## s0ulmirr0r

I tried to fast read all 60 plus pages and didn't find a definitive answer to my question.
There's anywhere on the market today or in the near future a 60+ feet hdmi cable that's certified to work in 4:4:4 2160p 60hz (600mhz clock rate)?
I'm currently running a Ricable Supreme AI F20 (redmere chip) that works fine at 4:2:0 but there's no way to make it run at 600mhz .
I basically tried everything aside from the expensive celerity fiber optic cables, nothing works. At this point i could try fiber optic cable too, but i've to be sure it actually works.
Any suggestions?
Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

s0ulmirr0r said:


> I tried to fast read all 60 plus pages and didn't find a definitive answer to my question.
> There's anywhere on the market today or in the near future a 60+ feet hdmi cable that's certified to work in 4:4:4 2160p 60hz (600mhz clock rate)?
> I'm currently running a Ricable Supreme AI F20 (redmere chip) that works fine at 4:2:0 but there's no way to make it run at 600mhz .
> I basically tried everything aside from the expensive celerity fiber optic cables, nothing works. At this point i could try fiber optic cable too, but i've to be sure it actually works.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks


Nobody is going to guarantee that any cable will work at 60+ feet. Runs that long are more likely to work with a good fiber cable than a copper-based cable. Active (Redmere) cables have limitations due to length and the version of chipsets used. You might want to look into Ruipro and try them. At 60' I imagine that you are running in conduit and are paying close attention to the bend radius.


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## Vic_Romano

Otto Pylot said:


> 25' is the maximum ATC certified length which is basically 1080p HDMI 1.4. Once you get into the 4k HDR area, even that becomes difficult. Cable mfrs will label cables as certified but you really don't know what that means or if their certification protocols are standardized or not. From what I understand, it ain't cheap to get ATC certification so that's why it's not an industry standard, even tho their are lots of ATC's around the world who test and certify for numerous cable mfrs. Some mfrs do have their own in-house certification program which is pretty good but you have to look carefully and find someone who is willing to answer your questions. DPL Labs is one and BlueJeans is another one (even tho I think they use ATC's).


Hi Otto, I think my next step is to learn how to verify my settings. For example, my Oppo 203 reports the HDMI output as 3840x2160 at 59.94p frame rate, HDR, BT2020 4:2:2 12bit. Audio is bitstream 48k. It's connected to a Denon with HDMI passthrough enabled. I don't recall if this was Billy Lynn or F8. During F8 my LG C7 reported Dolby Vision to be enabled. Both movies played flawlessly.

That all looks well and good, but it is surprising given my cable setup. I'm using a 3' Monoprice certified cable from the Oppo to the AVR. From the AVR I have another 3' Monoprice certified cable into a HDMI coupler (I bought 5 for 9.99 on Amazon). I have a 25' Monoprice certified cable attached from the HDMI coupler to my LG C7. So from AVR to TV I have 28' total HDMI cable length. I thought for sure the coupler would cause 4K60Hz (4:2:2 12bit) to fail (either no signal or sparkles). Another barometer that I'm getting full bandwidth available comparing the 25' vs 3'+25' configurations is my nVidia shield. The Shield reports the same settings as being available for both configurations.

I wonder if the HDMI output displayed by the Oppo is all I need to verify my settings.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ can't help you with verifying your settings. Sorry.


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## Glenee

s0ulmirr0r said:


> I tried to fast read all 60 plus pages and didn't find a definitive answer to my question.
> There's anywhere on the market today or in the near future a 60+ feet hdmi cable that's certified to work in 4:4:4 2160p 60hz (600mhz clock rate)?
> I'm currently running a Ricable Supreme AI F20 (redmere chip) that works fine at 4:2:0 but there's no way to make it run at 600mhz .
> I basically tried everything aside from the expensive celerity fiber optic cables, nothing works. At this point i could try fiber optic cable too, but i've to be sure it actually works.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks


https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21567
This won't work for you. It worked for me.


----------



## Kazz063

I'll have a Ruipro 10m cable coming, hopefully tomorrow, looking forward to not having issues every time I do a FW update on the Oppo 203 with a cable that can't do full bandwidth.
I know it's only a matter of a couple of presses of the resolution button on the Oppo remote but it's still a pain. 

For anyone here from Australia or New Zealand we now have an official Australian based Ruipro distributor in EZYHD.com.au so it's now a whole lot easier to get one of these.


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## Aquarian09

Hey guys,
My requirement is for a 35 to 40 feet length HDMI cable.
I'll be using Optoma UHD 60 projector, Marantz AV7702MKII, Oppo 203.
It seems like only fiber optic HDMI is capable of carrying 4:4:4 [email protected] on such long lengths. My first option was Celerity hdmi but got to know about Ruipro recently which is much cheaper than Celerity. If anyone got any information to share about these 2 brands, please help in providing the info , I am likely to place an order this week. 
What brand would you guys suggest ??


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## Joe Fernand

Ruipro - are simpler to deploy (no requirement for USB at either end of the cable) and being a 'Hybrid' cable (Fibre for Video with audio plus Copper for device communication, ARC etc) they are more 'transparent' in terms of handshaking between your devices.

Celerity - are thinner and as the actual cable is terminated with a Micro HDMI Connector and the Dongles plugged on after installation they can fit through a smaller hole in your wall, ceiling etc.

Keep in mind any HDMI cable can fail/be damaged once installed so ensure you plan for such an eventually and note both Celerity and Ruipro are Directional cables!

Joe


----------



## Aquarian09

Joe Fernand said:


> Ruipro - are simpler to deploy (no requirement for USB at either end of the cable) and being a 'Hybrid' cable (Fibre for Video with audio plus Copper for device communication, ARC etc) they are more 'transparent' in terms of handshaking between your devices.
> 
> Celerity - are thinner and as the actual cable is terminated with a Micro HDMI Connector and the Dongles plugged on after installation they can fit through a smaller hole in your wall, ceiling etc.
> 
> Keep in mind any HDMI cable can fail/be damaged once installed so ensure you plan for such an eventually and note both Celerity and Ruipro are Directional cables!
> 
> Joe


Thanks for the info Joe,
I am not good with technical terms, could you please explain what do u mean Celerity and Ruipro are Directional cables ??


----------



## Aquarian09

Joe Fernand said:


> Ruipro - are simpler to deploy (no requirement for USB at either end of the cable) and being a 'Hybrid' cable (Fibre for Video with audio plus Copper for device communication, ARC etc) they are more 'transparent' in terms of handshaking between your devices.
> 
> Celerity - are thinner and as the actual cable is terminated with a Micro HDMI Connector and the Dongles plugged on after installation they can fit through a smaller hole in your wall, ceiling etc.
> 
> Keep in mind any HDMI cable can fail/be damaged once installed so ensure you plan for such an eventually and note both Celerity and Ruipro are Directional cables!
> 
> Joe


Also, I hope there is no problem with either of the cables when it comes to performance ?? 4:4:4 [email protected] both cables have no issues in displaying the image ??


----------



## Joe Fernand

Directional - the signal only passes through the cable in one direction so you must ensure that you install the cable the correct way around to let the signal flow from the Source to the Sink (Display).

The cables are marked up as such but you must ensure whoever is installing the cable understands the labelling.

Performance - in tests folk are reporting a higher success rate with certain signal formats over the Ruipro cables.

Joe


----------



## Aquarian09

Joe Fernand said:


> Directional - the signal only passes through the cable in one direction so you must ensure that you install the cable the correct way around to let the signal flow from the Source to the Sink (Display).
> 
> The cables are marked up as such but you must ensure whoever is installing the cable understands the labelling.
> 
> Performance - in tests folk are reporting a higher success rate with certain signal formats over the Ruipro cables.
> 
> Joe


Good to know, thanks for the info, I will keep in mind while installation which cable goes where 
I will go ahead with RUIPRO then, better deal compared to Celerity 
Thanks and will keep posted in my build thread, thank you once again.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ be very mindful of bend radius as that can make a difference in pushing the higher video formats over long distances. If you install you cables in a conduit, which is highly recommended, bend radius is a bit easier to control. Also, be very careful of pulling the cable because you don't want to damage the sink end (tv side) which can be a bit delicate.


----------



## Kazz063

Aquarian09 said:


> Also, I hope there is no problem with either of the cables when it comes to performance ?? 4:4:4 [email protected] both cables have no issues in displaying the image ??


I connected up a Ruipro 10m cable yesterday and it has absolutely no issues with 4:4:4 [email protected]


----------



## Aquarian09

Kazz063 said:


> I connected up a Ruipro 10m cable yesterday and it has absolutely no issues with 4:4:4 [email protected]


Thanks for confirming once again 
I've placed order for RUIPRO 15mtrs 

Cheers


----------



## netroamer

*Monoprice Cabernet Issue*

I had a 25' Monoprice Cabernet cable between a OppO 205 player and a Lumagen Pro. When I set the OppO to "Auto" output resolution it reset to 4k/60 444. The Cabernet cable would not pass that resolution. It was fine with 4k 23.98 444. I switched it out with a 30' Monoprice AOC (21566). This cable immediately passed the 4k/60 444 signal and the switching times appear to be faster. I am going to change out the other 2 Cabernet cables from the Pro to the PJ with the other AOC cables I purchased.

I got these on a promo discount of 25% and Monoprice will issue a credit for the Cabernet cables and sent UPS return tags to boot.


----------



## Vic_Romano

Aquarian09 said:


> Thanks for confirming once again
> I've placed order for RUIPRO 15mtrs
> 
> Cheers


Good luck! I've had my adventures in cabling and I think I'm almost done.


----------



## Glenee

netroamer said:


> I had a 25' Monoprice Cabernet cable between a OppO 205 player and a Lumagen Pro. When I set the OppO to "Auto" output resolution it reset to 4k/60 444. The Cabernet cable would not pass that resolution. It was fine with 4k 23.98 444. I switched it out with a 30' Monoprice AOC (21566). This cable immediately passed the 4k/60 444 signal and the switching times appear to be faster. I am going to change out the other 2 Cabernet cables from the Pro to the PJ with the other AOC cables I purchased.
> 
> I got these on a promo discount of 25% and Monoprice will issue a credit for the Cabernet cables and sent UPS return tags to boot.


https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21567
This is the same cable I told you about here. The 21566 is 30 ft and the 21567 is 50 ft. You must remember no ARC. It says it has Ethernet but I don't see much communication between Samsung TV and Oppo 203, but yes the video is good.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> https://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=21567
> This is the same cable I told you about here. The 21566 is 30 ft and the 21567 is 50 ft. You must remember no ARC. It says it has Ethernet but I don't see much communication between Samsung TV and Oppo 203, but yes the video is good.


Ethernet means nothing because there are no devices that take advantage of that channel. It was a nice idea but the device mfrs chose not to implement it. The ethernet channel may be used for eARC in the HDMI 2.1 spec but that is not known for sure yet.


----------



## Swiguy

I also ordered the 15m Ruipro cable for my setup... don't regret the purchase at all! I'm playing back 4k60hz 4:4:4 with no issues whatsoever now. Don't bother with the cheap HDMI repeaters or non-fiber cables... been there and they simply don't work reliably.


----------



## doctorwizz

Swiguy said:


> I also ordered the 15m Ruipro cable for my setup... don't regret the purchase at all! I'm playing back 4k60hz 4:4:4 with no issues whatsoever now. Don't bother with the cheap HDMI repeaters or non-fiber cables... been there and they simply don't work reliably.


The Monoprice Blackbird repeater works 100% with good cables. HDR, ARC, and 4K/60 4:4:4


----------



## Flygaff

*Fiber op*



Swiguy said:


> I also ordered the 15m Ruipro cable for my setup... don't regret the purchase at all! I'm playing back 4k60hz 4:4:4 with no issues whatsoever now. Don't bother with the cheap HDMI repeaters or non-fiber cables... been there and they simply don't work reliably.


I installed the fiber optic Celerity 15.2 m/50 ft. What a difference. Love it but it was pricey


----------



## Swiguy

doctorwizz said:


> The Monoprice Blackbird repeater works 100% with good cables. HDR, ARC, and 4K/60 4:4:4


Fair enough, I bought an HDMI repeater off of eBay that was branded an active/powered repeater. It worked OK but HDR was hit and miss. I suppose my old HDMI cable (50ft Blue Rigger purchased from Amazon) wasn't think enough gauge. Regardless, I heard good things about the Blackbird repeater but didn't want to chance having the same issues with another repeater. Glad it works well for you though


----------



## Noah Moore

Was there anyone buy these DTECH cable from Amazon? I saw their price is cheaper than RUIPRO and MONOPRICE

DTECH 50 ft Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K at 60Hz HDR 18Gbps High Speed Chroma Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0

DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 ft Support 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors



I intend to buy one, Any advice? I need a cable supports 4k HDR 60fps 4:4:4


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## kodt

My 40 foot BJC Series-1 that I bought back in 2009 successfully sends a 4k60 4:2:0 signal, unfortunately I don't have a display that can accept 4k60 4:4:4 right now to test.


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## Otto Pylot

Noah Moore said:


> Was there anyone buy these DTECH cable from Amazon? I saw their price is cheaper than RUIPRO and MONOPRICE
> 
> DTECH 50 ft Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K at 60Hz HDR 18Gbps High Speed Chroma Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0
> 
> DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 ft Support 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors
> 
> 
> 
> I intend to buy one, Any advice? I need a cable supports 4k HDR 60fps 4:4:4


All you can do is purchase the cable, pay attention to the return policy, and thoroughly check it out before final installation. There are no 100% guarantees for pushing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz to 50'. Fiber should work but there are other factors to consider as well, such as HDMI chipset versions, bend radius, etc.


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## RobertR

Otto Pylot said:


> All you can do is purchase the cable, pay attention to the return policy, and thoroughly check it out before final installation. There are no 100% guarantees for pushing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz


Speaking of which, how does one test a cable for full 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz capability? Is there test material available for a UHD player or graphics card? Don't almost all movies stress the cable much less than that?


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## Otto Pylot

RobertR said:


> Speaking of which, how does one test a cable for full 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz capability? Is there test material available for a UHD player or graphics card? Don't almost all movies stress the cable much less than that?


I can't address the question of proper testing for UHD, someone else will have to chime in. As for the cables, distance appears to be the biggest obstacle, and about 20' seems to be where most people start having issues with the higher video standards. Some folks have luck at 30' with a quality (and price is not an indicator of quality/reliability) HDMI cable, others don't. That's what so frustrating about this whole HDMI/UHD mess. 1080p and almost any reasonable distance is easily achievable.


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## RobertR

Otto Pylot said:


> I can't address the question of proper testing for UHD, someone else will have to chime in. As for the cables, distance appears to be the biggest obstacle, and about 20' seems to be where most people start having issues with the higher video standards. Some folks have luck at 30' with a quality (and price is not an indicator of quality/reliability) HDMI cable, others don't. That's what so frustrating about this whole HDMI/UHD mess. 1080p and almost any reasonable distance is easily achievable.


Based on my reading, a 24 Hz movie at 4:2:0 only needs 10.2 Gbps speed. The full 18 Gbps seems to be desired "just in case" there's material at 4:4:4 60 Hz. Hence my question about test material, because the typical movie doesn't tell you if you're "safe" in this regard.


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## Otto Pylot

RobertR said:


> Based on my reading, a 24 Hz movie at 4:2:0 only needs 10.2 Gbps speed. The full 18 Gbps seems to be desired "just in case" there's material at 4:4:4 60 Hz. Hence my question about test material, because the typical movie doesn't tell you if you're "safe" in this regard.


Some device sources (blu-ray plater of example) will tell what their output is and some sink (tv's) will do the same. If source and sink are telling you that you are sending and receiving 4:4:4 @60Hz you can assume that's correct. As far as viewed material, checking the bit rate would be done the same I would imagine. If the cable can't deliver what's being fed to it, then the sink end would just "downscale". I'm sure there are better methods to check but that's what immediately comes to mind.


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## RobertR

Otto Pylot said:


> Some device sources (blu-ray plater of example) will tell what their output is and some sink (tv's) will do the same. If source and sink are telling you that you are sending and receiving 4:4:4 @60Hz you can assume that's correct. As far as viewed material, checking the bit rate would be done the same I would imagine. If the cable can't deliver what's being fed to it, then the sink end would just "downscale". I'm sure there are better methods to check but that's what immediately comes to mind.


It's fine that the player tells what it's sending, and the display tells what it's receiving, but that doesn't tell me what material to use to have them tell me "hey Robert, 60 Hz 4:4:4 UHD is being sent/received".


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## kodt

RobertR said:


> It's fine that the player tells what it's sending, and the display tells what it's receiving, but that doesn't tell me what material to use to have them tell me "hey Robert, 60 Hz 4:4:4 UHD is being sent/received".


You can get a 4K60 4:4:4 signal from a PC with the right video card. Something recent like a GTX 1060 or 1080 will support HDCP2.2.

You can use a test pattern like found here to confirm 4:4:4 http://www.avsforum.com/attachments/9759

There are 4k60 videos on youtube, playing a video game at 4k60 would also be an option... this is of course an expensive option to build a PC just to test 4:4:4 4k60


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## RobertR

kodt said:


> You can get a 4K60 4:4:4 signal from a PC with the right video card. Something recent like a GTX 1060 or 1080 will support HDCP2.2.
> 
> You can use a test pattern like found here to confirm 4:4:4 http://www.geeks3d.com/20141203/how...-chroma-subsampling-used-with-your-4k-uhd-tv/
> 
> There are 4k60 videos on youtube, playing a video game at 4k60 would also be an option... this is of course an expensive option to build a PC just to test 4:4:4 4k60


Thank you! Very helpful. I already have the PC, just need to buy the card. But the hard part would be moving the PC to be within 25 ft. of the projector. That would be a huge PIA.


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## Noah Moore

Otto Pylot said:


> All you can do is purchase the cable, pay attention to the return policy, and thoroughly check it out before final installation. There are no 100% guarantees for pushing 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz to 50'. Fiber should work but there are other factors to consider as well, such as HDMI chipset versions, bend radius, etc.


Thank you!


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## Joe Fernand

_'Based on my reading, a 24 Hz movie at 4:2:0 only needs 10.2 Gbps speed. The full 18 Gbps seems to be desired "just in case" there's material at 4:4:4 60 Hz'_ - be aware that some UHD capable devices go into the higher bandwidth modes for Menus, which has caught a few folk out! Having the 18 Gpbs capability is no bad thing.

Joe


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## tcramer

Just received a Monoprice email with their new HOSS Installer Grade Active HDMI cables. They aren't Premium Certified, but it will still be an interesting one to try given they are active, 24 AWG and available in longer runs.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467


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## neocataboi

tcramer said:


> Just received a Monoprice email with their new HOSS Installer Grade Active HDMI cables. They aren't Premium Certified, but it will still be an interesting one to try given they are active, 24 AWG and available in longer runs.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467



I replied to a similar note on another thread, i'll leave my reply here. I would be glad to help with anyone whom has connectivity and performance related questions in regards to the HOSS and DynamicView series cables at Monoprice. 



neocataboi said:


> Full disclosure, I'm on the Monoprice development team. The new lines of active HDMI cables use the Spectra 7 HT8181 chipset, specifically designed around HDMI 2.0 compliance. Monoprice was one of the first vendors to get the ball rolling with the HT8181 and it's difficult being first sometimes. We should see other manufactures launching their HT8181 cables in the next several months in time for the holidays.
> 
> Monoprice has worked closely with Spectra7, whom is formerly known as Redmere, for many years and Monoprice helped make the Redmere name synonymous with high speed active HDMI cables. We were very early adopters of the technology and in turn one of the first cables out there. The existing Luxe and Cabernet Series Cables share a now legacy chipset that was optimized to 18Gbps of bandwidth but were designed well before HDMI 2.0 was a thing, this is the next evolution of the same tech.
> 
> More information on the HT8181 chipset can be found on Spectra 7s website.
> 
> With that said, we've ran these new series of cables through the same paces as the SlimRunAV HDR cables and have the added benefit of ARC compatibility.
> 
> I don't mean for this to be a /r/hailcorporate type post. Please reach out to me via PM if you have any questions. i don't want to lead the thread off topic.


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## ryanoletzke

Ok - I must have a cable issue... 

Setup:

Xbox one S - through Yamaha tsr-5810 - through 10meter Ruipro hdmi fiber cable - to optoma uhd60.

With this setup I get long "searching for handshake" times for certain color depths, color subsampling and fps. Sometimes I connect with variations- other times not at all. Mind you, with 1080p xfinity cable and Apple TV - I have NO ISSUES EVER.

To troubleshoot this, I bypassed the receiver and 10m fiber cable and plugged Xbox one S straight in to projector using 6 foot cable provided with Xbox. With this setup all color depths (8,10,12 bit) and all color subsampling (YCC 422/HDR enabled or disabled) and fps (24 or 60) works and quickly at that.

To narrow it down, I next bypassed the Yamaha AVR and used the 10m Ruipro hdmi fiber cable straight between Xbox one S and optoma uhd60. Doing this found the same glitchy unsteady handshake issue as when I was through the AVR. In this setup I cannot get 10 bit color depth to connect at all - 8 bit and 12 bit do easily. I can get 24hz to connect but only if I have YCC 422 enabled. I cannot get amazon instant video or UBD to play with 24hz AND 422 unchecked. 

Conclusion: This leads me to be believe I have a bandwidth issue with this cable. When I force it to send 2160p 60hz and 444 HDR it doesn't reliably handshake. If I use 24hz it works (presumably that reduces bandwidth), and if I use YCC 422 it also works. Again - if I uncheck both 24hz and 422 - thereby forcing the signal to be 2160p 60hz HDR at 12 bit depth I get issues with some content handshaking. Video games work - but video and UHD blu rays have issues.

Am I right? Do I need a new cable? If so - what's better / more reliable than a 33 foot ruipro hdmi fiber ????

Oh and in case you are wondering why I wouldn't just check / enable 24hz and 422... when I do this I get VERY BAD Color Banding on 4k content. Which again makes me think I have a bandwidth issue with cable - it is reducing the color data to handshake.

Any help would be much appreciated!


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## Joe Fernand

The XB1S can be problematic at times.

We now have the Ruipro Hybrid cables at lengths from 10m (32') through 50m (164'). I currently have the 50m on the Output side of an Arcam AVR into an LG OLED, with the XB1S as a source.

I am not seeing the issues you are seeing - any chance you could test the Ruipro cable in another system?

Joe


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## ryanoletzke

Joe Fernand said:


> The XB1S can be problematic at times.
> 
> We now have the Ruipro Hybrid cables at lengths from 10m (32') through 50m (164'). I currently have the 50m on the Output side of an Arcam AVR into an LG OLED, with the XB1S as a source.
> 
> I am not seeing the issues you are seeing - any chance you could test the Ruipro cable in another system?
> 
> Joe


I don't have any way to test on another system.

I have the RUIPRO hybrid cable at 10m (32'). So it is very curious to me why I don't get identical playback using that cable (Ruipro) vs the 6' hi speed HDMI cable that comes with the Xbox One S. I have troubleshooted both - and with the 32' fiber cable I get unreliable and unpredictable playback. Sometimes it works other times it doesn't get a signal and it feels like its for random things. Sometimes it's bit depth (particularly 10 bit), sometimes its frame rate, some times its blu ray discs, etc... sigh

So that leaves me with only one possible culprit, because with the 6' cable everything works: 4K @ 24hz, 50/60hz, HDR, 8,10,12 bit, YCC 4:2:2, etc. So, it must be the cable, right?

Maybe the bend radius is too sharp? Maybe it was a bad cable? Maybe pulling the cable damaged it? I don't have conduit, but the pull wasn't very hard or crazy. How delicate are these things?

Currently, I plan to return the RUIPRO 10m AOC and try something else.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ pulling cable with connectors can be an art at times. If you're very careful, most of the time it works but sometimes it doesn't.


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## Joe Fernand

'So, it must be the cable, right?' - without another 4K UHD Source and or installing the cable into a different system it is hard to say for sure.

XB1S - you don't have to look too hard to find folk finding it difficult times, http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/console/troubleshooting-4K-and-HDR-on-xbox-one-s

TV - are you using the same Input on the TV when testing with the Ruipro and shorter HDMI cable?

_'Maybe it was a bad cable?'_ - always a possibility, we have had one bad cable out of many we have supplied. Ask your supplier to pre-test another cable and have it shipped out to compare it's performance.

Ruipro - can you confirm if you have Silver or Black HDMI hoods?

Joe


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## ryanoletzke

Joe Fernand said:


> 'So, it must be the cable, right?' - without another 4K UHD Source and or installing the cable into a different system it is hard to say for sure.
> 
> XB1S - you don't have to look too hard to find folk finding it difficult times, http://support.xbox.com/en-GB/xbox-one/console/troubleshooting-4K-and-HDR-on-xbox-one-s
> 
> TV - are you using the same Input on the TV when testing with the Ruipro and shorter HDMI cable?
> 
> _'Maybe it was a bad cable?'_ - always a possibility, we have had one bad cable out of many we have supplied. Ask your supplier to pre-test another cable and have it shipped out to compare it's performance.
> 
> Ruipro - can you confirm if you have Silver or Black HDMI hoods?
> 
> Joe


Silver 

And the ruipro works fine for TV and Apple TV - but those are both 1080p sources. 

Yes - same input - hdmi2/mhl - this is the only input that suppprts hdmi 2.0 and hdcp 2.2


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## Joe Fernand

Silver Hoods - ideal, you have the latest Spec cable.

TV - you may find you can enable those Features on other Inputs, my LG require you to enable certain features in the User Menu.

Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable - ideally you would test it with a different 4K UHD Source and or Display.

Joe


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## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> Silver Hoods - ideal, you have the latest Spec cable.
> 
> TV - you may find you can enable those Features on other Inputs, my LG require you to enable certain features in the User Menu.
> 
> Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable - ideally you would test it with a different 4K UHD Source and or Display.
> 
> Joe


Hey again guys,

Had everything (i thought) working good. My set up is Marantz 7702mk11 as my processor. I have a 55 inch Sony LCD and a Epson 5040UBE, please don't mention the wireless.

I have XBOX, PS4, Optimum cable box and Oppo 203 bluray. Originally had HDMI output 1 to my Sony 55 inch with a 9 foot Audioquest cable. HDMI output 2 to my Epson with a 30 foot Celerity cable. This did NOT work. I kept losing picture and sound while watching movies off of the Oppo. I decided to run the Celerity directly out of Oppo right to the PJ. Works great. I then ran a BJC series 1 (fire hose) from my HDMI output 2 to the 1.4 input on the Epson for all my other viewing. Seemed to work good. 

I ran it about 15 mins as I don't watch much TV, just blurays and the Celerity out of the Oppo into the Epson is working great. Watched about 100 hours so far on the Epson without a problem.

A few weeks ago, decided to watch Game of Thrones. After 20 mins, picture and sound started dropping out. I don't get it. It is NOT 4K, just a cable box. Being a wits end yet again. I ordered the Ruipro 10 meter cable. Installed it today, picture and sound dropping out, same as the BJC series 1. I don't get it. This is my 3rd upgrade in less than 5 years. This is my 3rd Marantz prepro. Not sure why I stay with Marantz. This is killing me again. I spent along time before I iwas able to get to watch movies off my Oppo 203. It seems nothing more than 10 feet will pass out of my Marantz.

Why would it not pass a signal out of my cable box???

The Marantz and Epson are less than a year old. HELP.

Thanks. I don't know what else to try at this point.


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## brianlvi3

brianlvi3 said:


> Hey again guys,
> 
> Had everything (i thought) working good. My set up is Marantz 7702mk11 as my processor. I have a 55 inch Sony LCD and a Epson 5040UBE, please don't mention the wireless.
> 
> I have XBOX, PS4, Optimum cable box and Oppo 203 bluray. Originally had HDMI output 1 to my Sony 55 inch with a 9 foot Audioquest cable. HDMI output 2 to my Epson with a 30 foot Celerity cable. This did NOT work. I kept losing picture and sound while watching movies off of the Oppo. I decided to run the Celerity directly out of Oppo right to the PJ. Works great. I then ran a BJC series 1 (fire hose) from my HDMI output 2 to the 1.4 input on the Epson for all my other viewing. Seemed to work good.
> 
> I ran it about 15 mins as I don't watch much TV, just blurays and the Celerity out of the Oppo into the Epson is working great. Watched about 100 hours so far on the Epson without a problem.
> 
> A few weeks ago, decided to watch Game of Thrones. After 20 mins, picture and sound started dropping out. I don't get it. It is NOT 4K, just a cable box. Being a wits end yet again. I ordered the Ruipro 10 meter cable. Installed it today, picture and sound dropping out, same as the BJC series 1. I don't get it. This is my 3rd upgrade in less than 5 years. This is my 3rd Marantz prepro. Not sure why I stay with Marantz. This is killing me again. I spent along time before I iwas able to get to watch movies off my Oppo 203. It seems nothing more than 10 feet will pass out of my Marantz.
> 
> Why would it not pass a signal out of my cable box???
> 
> The Marantz and Epson are less than a year old. HELP.
> 
> Thanks. I don't know what else to try at this point.


One more item to add. This one is really strange I am will do some more testing.

With everything fired up, I am watching TV using the Epson 5040. Picture and sound start dropping out. Usually takes 15 minutes. I will switch on the Sony 55 inch LCD TV. So now both Epson and Sony both with a picture. It seemed to run for a half hour with no drop outs???


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## Stiltz

Is there a favorite yet for long run HDMI cables that support 4K 60Hz and 4:4:4? (Celerity, Ruipro, Hoss, etc)
I need a 50' run for my new media room.
Thanks for any advice!


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## Dreamliner

Stiltz said:


> Is there a favorite yet for long run HDMI cables that support 4K 60Hz and 4:4:4? (Celerity, Ruipro, Hoss, etc)
> I need a 50' run for my new media room.
> Thanks for any advice!


I've heard good things about Ruipro. Don't forget about your other cables: 4K HDMI Cable Choice Matters.


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## Otto Pylot

Stiltz said:


> Is there a favorite yet for long run HDMI cables that support 4K 60Hz and 4:4:4? (Celerity, Ruipro, Hoss, etc)
> I need a 50' run for my new media room.
> Thanks for any advice!


At 50' your best bet will be either one, Celerity or Ruipro depending on power preferences. Just be mindful of bend radius. Certified cables, as has been brought up many times before, is only good up to 25' if certified by an ATC. Cables that are ATC certified are labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI and will come with a QR code/label to verify authenticity.


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## Stiltz

Thanks. Have people had bad luck with Ruipro? (I'd prefer to not have to deal with USB on the Celerity HDMI cable)


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## Joe Fernand

_'Have people had bad luck with Ruipro?'_ - yes!

Prior to Ruipro appearing we supplied a fair few of the Celerity Active Fibre HDMI - in the main they worked as required though would add a bit of time to the startup handshake of most systems and are slower than a 'normal' HDMI cable when switching Inputs. Those 'problems' disappeared once we started to use and supply the Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI. The Hybrid cables have the 'always on' copper connection between the Sink and the Source which means they act very much like a 'normal' HDMI cable.

Joe


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## Graytwhyte

Graytwhyte said:


> No, not yet. I'm putting it off for a little while. I've got a few things to order from Sewell. Price on the 30' dropped by $5 to $29.99 with prime shipping on amazon though.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Finally got around to ordering the Sewell 30' S6. Tried it out tonight, and I got an all static (sparkles) screen from Sony x800 menu. Only tried it with 1080p up converted Blu-ray and it played that fine. Sending it back as it's no better than the Cabernet for my purposes. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

Graytwhyte said:


> Finally got around to ordering the Sewell 30' S6. Tried it out tonight, and I got an all static (sparkles) screen from Sony x800 menu. Only tried it with 1080p up converted Blu-ray and it played that fine. Sending it back as it's no better than the Cabernet for my purposes.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Don't feel bad about the Sewell. We had a poster a few months back who was from Sewell and he really sold the cable hard here but was a bit reluctant to answer specific questions. A lot of folks purchased them, and quite a few were happy with the results but there were also quite a few who returned their cables for not meeting expectations. As we have said before, it's still a bit of trial and error with long cables, regardless of mfr claims.


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## Graytwhyte

Otto Pylot said:


> Don't feel bad about the Sewell. We had a poster a few months back who was from Sewell and he really sold the cable hard here but was a bit reluctant to answer specific questions. A lot of folks purchased them, and quite a few were happy with the results but there were also quite a few who returned their cables for not meeting expectations. As we have said before, it's still a bit of trial and error with long cables, regardless of mfr claims.


Thanks Otto. I wasn't expecting it to work, just hoping, and had to try it before I spend the big money on a configuration that will work. 

Honestly don't need the 4k/60hz to watch the movies, but the fact that something isn't working as intended bothers me. 

The interesting thing, though, is that I got static with the Sewell, but the Cabernet gives me no signal with 60hz. Any idea why the difference? 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## brianlvi3

brianlvi3 said:


> One more item to add. This one is really strange I am will do some more testing.
> 
> With everything fired up, I am watching TV using the Epson 5040. Picture and sound start dropping out. Usually takes 15 minutes. I will switch on the Sony 55 inch LCD TV. So now both Epson and Sony both with a picture. It seemed to run for a half hour with no drop outs???


OK. Here is what happened. When I run anything, I mean anything out of my Marantz using a 30 foot cable, Ruipro, Celerity, BJC series 1, I get drop outs. Same cable from my Oppo directly to my Epson, no drop outs.

When I turn on my 55 inch Sony so now both outputs on the Marantz are active, NO DROPOUTS!!

How can this be??? This is on all non 4K stuff.

Thanks.


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## Joe Fernand

brianlvi3 - it sounds like an HDCP issue, with the Projector losing and then reacquiring the Source.

Try moving the Projector + long HDMI Cable to the Other Output on the Marantz.

Joe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brianlvi3

Joe Fernand said:


> brianlvi3 - it sounds like an HDCP issue, with the Projector losing and then reacquiring the Source.
> 
> Try moving the Projector + long HDMI Cable to the Other Output on the Marantz.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still happens with either output Joe. Now another issue which I posted on the Oppo forum;


I have had so many problems with my Oppo 203, Marantz 7702mk11 and Epson 5040 over the last 6 months. Mostly handshake stuff. Finally got it to where I could watch a bluray off my Oppo with no problems. Did the latest firmware on the Oppo and last night, playing Baywatch on regular bluray, I keep losing sound. Drops in and out. I run my HDMI cable from the Oppo to the Epson for picture. The 2nd HDMI out of the Oppo to my Marantz. 

I have changed NO settings. I went through them all twice on the Marantz and Oppo. I can't see anything different. I also have 7:1 cables from the Oppo to the Marantz. Switched to that and I still have the sound dropping out like every few minutes. NOT the picture. It remains perfect.

Can't be bad analog cables and a bad HDMI cable. Where can I start? Thanks!!!


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## Joe Fernand

Try removing the Audio HDMI and only connect the Oppo to the Marantz using the 7.1 Analogue cables.

Power the system down when you are plugging/unplugging HDMI cables.

Joe


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## omi_neko

neocataboi said:


> I replied to a similar note on another thread, i'll leave my reply here. I would be glad to help with anyone whom has connectivity and performance related questions in regards to the HOSS and DynamicView series cables at Monoprice.


I purchased a 50 foot hoss cable, and a 25 foot. I am still testing different use scenarios, but I have been successful in using a 6 foot certified hdmi cable from source - keystone - 25' hoss - monoprice 4k repeater - 50' hoss cable - display in 3840x2160 4:4:4 with my pc. There is a start up delay (10 - 15 seconds) and changing resolutions can cause the display to temporarily go out for 10-15 seconds but it is working!


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## Chris-Tish

After reading most of this thread I'm still a little confused, is there a 30ft solution that doesn't cost $300+? I'm okay linking cables together if needed, I just need 30 feet and a cable that support everything this TV has to offer for future source boxes. 

TV: LG C7
Source: AppleTV 4K & PS4-Pro


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## Joe Fernand

A 33' (10m) Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable will support all current HDMI Formats and is around $160.

Like any HDMI cable pre-test in your system before you 'install' the cable and ensure it can be easily replaced in case of damage or failure.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

Chris-Tish said:


> After reading most of this thread I'm still a little confused, is there a 30ft solution that doesn't cost $300+? I'm okay linking cables together if needed, I just need 30 feet and a cable that support everything this TV has to offer for future source boxes.
> 
> TV: LG C7
> Source: AppleTV 4K & PS4-Pro


It depends on what you want to push, 1080p, 4k, 4k HDR. 1080p is not a problem for most well made passive/active High Speed HDMI cables at 30'. Possibly even 4k. But once you get into the higher video standards your choices become limited. All you can do is try. Some active cables will work, it just all depends on your setup ( bend radius of the cable, HDMI chipset version on the source, sink, etc). Unfortunately there is no way to tell for sure without trying. Just lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installation. 

It's always best to keep your connection as interruption-free as possible. In other words, no daisy-chaining cables together. That is especially true for active cables. Remember, it's not always the cable that is the issue, it's your devices as well. As far as "future proofing" goes, the only way to future proof is to use conduit if your cable is an in-wall installation. You will be changing cables out at a future date for sure so with the use of conduit, that becomes so much easier. Even active connections may fail overtime because of the electronics in the sink end so you need to plan for that possibility. Once HDMI 2.1 is widely available in devices and media, the type of cable and its connections will be much more difficult. That's why most folks are just biting the bullet and buying fiber cables like Ruipro because their chances for success are better than a purely copper-based cable.


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## netroamer

*Monoprice*

I am posting this in this forum because of the multiple mentions of Monoprice.

On Friday I ordered a cable from them. The order was placed well before their cut-off time of 2PM Pacific, for same day shipping, with the 2-3 day USPS Priority selected as the ship method.
Later that afternoon I received a email indicating that the item was "shipped". Later in the evening, using the tracking number I went to the USPS site which showed only that a label was produced with no indication that the item was in the hands of USPS. That status has not changed as of this AM.

This is the third instance in the last orders I have placed to have the same issue.

It's my opinion, shipped means shipped, and that at best this practice is disingenuous and at worst a outright misrepresentation. 

Thanks...I feel better!


----------



## Jonas2

netroamer said:


> I am posting this in this forum because of the multiple mentions of Monoprice.
> 
> On Friday I ordered a cable from them. The order was placed well before their cut-off time of 2PM Pacific, for same day shipping, with the 2-3 day USPS Priority selected as the ship method.
> Later that afternoon I received a email indicating that the item was "shipped". Later in the evening, using the tracking number I went to the USPS site which showed only that a label was produced with no indication that the item was in the hands of USPS. That status has not changed as of this AM.
> 
> This is the third instance in the last orders I have placed to have the same issue.
> 
> It's my opinion, shipped means shipped, and that at best this practice is disingenuous and at worst a outright misrepresentation.
> 
> Thanks...I feel better!


I hear you, but by no means is Monoprice the only supplier out there guilty of this "sin"..... I've had this happen on several occasions with private and commercial sellers, and not USPS. Frustrating for sure, but be glad they offer USPS - a lot of places don't, and you get stuck with even more expensive, and slower UPS or Fedex ground....!  Always a bright side.....I've had the occasion where the shipper simply didn't pick up for whatever reason, or the processing was very late in making it into the automated system, but the item was indeed well on it's way. 

I've actually not experienced this issue with Monoprice, sorry you've had so many issues!


----------



## Otto Pylot

That happens quite often when the final shipping is handed over to USPS. Shipped means the order was "shipped" to USPS. After that, you're stuck with USPS scheduling, and it has been my experience that most of the time you get your items within the specified time frame, unless there are weather related issues. USPS rarely updates the status over the weekend so you could find that Monday morning it has been received and will be out for delivery either later that day or the next. Weekends do not not count as far as 2-3 day shipping time.


----------



## netroamer

Otto Pylot said:


> That happens quite often when the final shipping is handed over to USPS. Shipped means the order was "shipped" to USPS. After that, you're stuck with USPS scheduling, and it has been my experience that most of the time you get your items within the specified time frame, unless there are weather related issues. USPS rarely updates the status over the weekend so you could find that Monday morning it has been received and will be out for delivery either later that day or the next. Weekends do not not count as far as 2-3 day shipping time.


I wish you were correct...but in this case, like the previous, it left their facility today with a delivery date of Wednesday. As of this morning, the tracking info on the Monoprice site stated delivery today.:frown:


----------



## Otto Pylot

netroamer said:


> I wish you were correct...but in this case, like the previous, it left their facility today with a delivery date of Wednesday. As of this morning, the tracking info on the Monoprice site stated delivery today.:frown:


Hmmm, if it left their facility today, then Wed. would meet the 2-3 day delivery time. You ordered on Friday, the weekend doesn't count, which I think it should. Sounds like Monoprice and USPS needs to get on the same page. I've always had my orders delivered when they were supposed to be and sometimes they came early. Patience young Luke, patience.


----------



## Andy_Snap

Joe Fernand said:


> A 33' (10m) Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable will support all current HDMI Formats and is around $160.
> 
> Like any HDMI cable pre-test in your system before you 'install' the cable and ensure it can be easily replaced in case of damage or failure.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think I'm going to need one of these 10m Ruipro cables!

Do you supply these in the UK Joe??

Cheers,

Andy.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hi Andy

We cover the UK and most of the rest of Europe from our base in the 'Borders' 

Joe


----------



## Andy_Snap

Joe Fernand said:


> Hi Andy
> 
> We cover the UK and most of the rest of Europe from our base in the 'Borders'
> 
> Joe


Thanks Joe, good to know - projector arrives this week and I'll test the cable I have just now
but I think I already know what the result will be........
In which case I'll give you a shout for the Ruipro!


----------



## Joe Fernand

You never know your existing cable may be fine.

Joe


----------



## madbrain

tcramer said:


> Just received a Monoprice email with their new HOSS Installer Grade Active HDMI cables. They aren't Premium Certified, but it will still be an interesting one to try given they are active, 24 AWG and available in longer runs.
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14467


Has anyone tried this cable yet ?


----------



## Aurylian

First projector is coming in about one week. I need about 55-60' HDMI to get to my projector due to room issues. So, I ordered a RUIPRO from Amazon that was "In Stock" but forgot to look at the fine print that said it would be shipped to me sometime in the next 30-45 days. Not sure how RUIPRO shipping works, but that seems a bit long for something that is in stock. So, next went to the fall back of MONOPRICE fiber and the length I need is out of stock. The only monoprice top cable available for quick shipping is 150' at $246. 

So, my options are:

RUIPRO and just wait for it;
Monoprice 150' at $246;
FIBBR 65' at $329 (any reason why these are more $$? better tech?)
Other?


----------



## rv75

netroamer said:


> I am posting this in this forum because of the multiple mentions of Monoprice.
> 
> On Friday I ordered a cable from them. The order was placed well before their cut-off time of 2PM Pacific, for same day shipping, with the 2-3 day USPS Priority selected as the ship method.
> Later that afternoon I received a email indicating that the item was "shipped". Later in the evening, using the tracking number I went to the USPS site which showed only that a label was produced with no indication that the item was in the hands of USPS. That status has not changed as of this AM.
> 
> This is the third instance in the last orders I have placed to have the same issue.
> 
> It's my opinion, shipped means shipped, and that at best this practice is disingenuous and at worst a outright misrepresentation.
> 
> Thanks...I feel better!


Did you order their Hoss cable and have you had a chance to test it?
Looking for a good 20 ft cable. 

Thanks


----------



## netroamer

rv75 said:


> Did you order their Hoss cable and have you had a chance to test it?
> Looking for a good 20 ft cable.
> 
> Thanks


No...I ordered an optical cable.


----------



## Blarghinston

madbrain said:


> Has anyone tried this cable yet ?


I just received the 30ft version of this cable and I have achieved the impossible feat- 4K, 60HZ, Chroma 4:4:4 and HDR (Tested with Shadow Warrior 2.) What a cable!


----------



## madbrain

Blarghinston said:


> I just received the 30ft version of this cable and I have achieved the impossible feat- 4K, 60HZ, Chroma 4:4:4 and HDR (Tested with Shadow Warrior 2.) What a cable!


I received the 40ft version of it and tested it yesterday. I am seeing the same as you - tested with brand new Optoma UHD65 projector, Sony UBP-X800 4K player, and "The Magnificent Seven" UHD Blu-Ray HDR.
This is with player hooked up directly to the display as my currently receiver isn't 4K capable. The Sony has a 2nd HDMI output for audio that was going to my receiver.

Edit: stopped working when I moved the cable. It's going back, and I'm keeping the SlimRun AV.


----------



## madbrain

madbrain said:


> I received the 40ft version of it and tested it yesterday. I am seeing the same as you - tested with brand new Optoma UHD65 projector, Sony UBP-X800 4K player, and "The Magnificent Seven" UHD Blu-Ray HDR.
> This is with player hooked up directly to the display as my currently receiver isn't 4K capable. The Sony has a 2nd HDMI output for audio that was going to my receiver.


I have to take that back. I moved the HOSS cable around the other side of the room. It stopped working with the UBP-X800, inexplicably. No amount of unplugging and unplugging on either PJ or source side worked.
Even using my Yamaha RX-A1000 HDMI out, which is HDMI 1.4, as source, no picture at all.
Strangely, the cable still worked at 4K/60p with my HTPC. HTPC was freshly upgraded with a GT 1030 video card earlier today.
The inconsistency did not bode well, and I unfortunately had to give up on it. The inconsistency may have to do with the way the cable was wrapped - it was not fully extended/stretched or mounted on my wall. But I was not going to hang an inconsistent cable on my wall.

Reluctantly, I unpacked the SlimRun AV. It worked with all of the sources mentioned, even with about half the size still in a circular loop. Seems like that cable cares much less about being fully extended, likely because it's much thinner than the HOSS cable, and optical.

Now, I get to try with the new Marantz SR7011 in the middle. Wish me luck.


----------



## Blarghinston

madbrain said:


> I have to take that back. I moved the HOSS cable around the other side of the room. It stopped working with the UBP-X800, inexplicably. No amount of unplugging and unplugging on either PJ or source side worked.
> Even using my Yamaha RX-A1000 HDMI out, which is HDMI 1.4, as source, no picture at all.
> Strangely, the cable still worked at 4K/60p with my HTPC. HTPC was freshly upgraded with a GT 1030 video card earlier today.
> The inconsistency did not bode well, and I unfortunately had to give up on it. The inconsistency may have to do with the way the cable was wrapped - it was not fully extended/stretched or mounted on my wall. But I was not going to hang an inconsistent cable on my wall.
> 
> Reluctantly, I unpacked the SlimRun AV. It worked with all of the sources mentioned, even with about half the size still in a circular loop. Seems like that cable cares much less about being fully extended, likely because it's much thinner than the HOSS cable, and optical.
> 
> Now, I get to try with the new Marantz SR7011 in the middle. Wish me luck.


I am not a professional at any of this by any means. But since this is a new chipset, is it possible there are handshaking issues with your receiver?

My run is extremely simple. Just plugged into my PC and then directly to my TV.


----------



## madbrain

Blarghinston said:


> I am not a professional at any of this by any means. But since this is a new chipset, is it possible there are handshaking issues with your receiver?
> 
> My run is extremely simple. Just plugged into my PC and then directly to my TV.


Here are the all tests I performed with the HOSS cable, with results :

Sat morning :
1) UBP-X800 -> HOSS cable -> UHD 65 projector : all good. Watched an entire UHD HDR movie.
No receiver was involved in between.

Sat evening :
2) Just moved the HOSS cable (which was laying on the floor, easy to trip onto) to the left side of the room : no more signal at all. Projector can't detect the source anymore. Still no receiver involved.

3) same test as 2, but unplugged/replugged each side of the connector to make sure it wasn't a loose connection. Still no picture, PJ won't detect the source.

4) Plugged the source side of the HOSS cable directly to HTPC with new GT1030 video card . Projector instantly detected the source, and I got a full 4K/60p signal. Still no receiver involved.

5) plugged the source side of the HOSS cable to Yamaha RX-A1000 (HDMI 1.4 receiver) HDMI monitor out. Still no signal. Projector can't detect source again. The Yamaha receiver normally displays the picture of a grand piano, or the picture from the source.

That is the point at which I gave up on the HOSS cable. If it couldn't even pass an HDMI 1.4 signal, it had to go back.

I switched the 40ft HOSS cable for 50ft SlimRun AV, and repeated the tests 2-5 . They all passed.

Later on, I installed my new Marantz SR7011 receiver. SlimRun AV cable also works fine with the following cases, in addition to everything listed above :
- Dish Hopper satellite DVR (HD model, not 4K) -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65
- Sony UBP-X800 UHD player -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65
- HTPC with GT1030 HDMI 2.0 video card at 4K/60p -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65

Have yet to try the Chromecast Ultra that I also bought yesterday (still in the box).
Also have an old PS3 to connect (used only to rip my SACDs when I buy new disks).
That's all the HDMI sources in my home theater that I have available to test with. Have a bunch more PCs in the house (7!) with other video cards, but not going to move them to the HT room just to try. Only one other GPU I own has HDMI 2.0 support, GTX 960.

I may hookup my old Yamaha DVD-C750 changer which has no HDMI out - best video output is only component out, just to test the component to HDMI upconversion and make sure it still works, especially for my PAL discs. That was OK with my old Yamaha receiver.

Was surprised to see that new Optoma UHD65 projector has no component input. The only analog video input is VGA.
Guess it's time to take the component cable off my wall in the HT room.


----------



## rolledoff

Super new at all this, and have no idea how to do the math. Any help will be super appreciated. 

The TV is LG B7A, and AppleTV is the 4K one.

Will this cable work for 4K Dolby Vision @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 chroma mode (and whatever else max spec that the two devices support)? https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Cable-6ft-Connectors-PlayStation/dp/B00NQ9OQU2/ 

Thanks!


----------



## nunyabiziz

madbrain said:


> Here are the all tests I performed with the HOSS cable, with results :
> 
> Sat morning :
> 1) UBP-X800 -> HOSS cable -> UHD 65 projector : all good. Watched an entire UHD HDR movie.
> No receiver was involved in between.
> 
> Sat evening :
> 2) Just moved the HOSS cable (which was laying on the floor, easy to trip onto) to the left side of the room : no more signal at all. Projector can't detect the source anymore. Still no receiver involved.
> 
> 3) same test as 2, but unplugged/replugged each side of the connector to make sure it wasn't a loose connection. Still no picture, PJ won't detect the source.
> 
> 4) Plugged the source side of the HOSS cable directly to HTPC with new GT1030 video card . Projector instantly detected the source, and I got a full 4K/60p signal. Still no receiver involved.
> 
> 5) plugged the source side of the HOSS cable to Yamaha RX-A1000 (HDMI 1.4 receiver) HDMI monitor out. Still no signal. Projector can't detect source again. The Yamaha receiver normally displays the picture of a grand piano, or the picture from the source.
> 
> That is the point at which I gave up on the HOSS cable. If it couldn't even pass an HDMI 1.4 signal, it had to go back.
> 
> I switched the 40ft HOSS cable for 50ft SlimRun AV, and repeated the tests 2-5 . They all passed.
> 
> Later on, I installed my new Marantz SR7011 receiver. SlimRun AV cable also works fine with the following cases, in addition to everything listed above :
> - Dish Hopper satellite DVR (HD model, not 4K) -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65
> - Sony UBP-X800 UHD player -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65
> - HTPC with GT1030 HDMI 2.0 video card at 4K/60p -> Marantz SR7011 -> Optoma UHD65
> 
> Have yet to try the Chromecast Ultra that I also bought yesterday (still in the box).
> Also have an old PS3 to connect (used only to rip my SACDs when I buy new disks).
> That's all the HDMI sources in my home theater that I have available to test with. Have a bunch more PCs in the house (7!) with other video cards, but not going to move them to the HT room just to try. Only one other GPU I own has HDMI 2.0 support, GTX 960.
> 
> I may hookup my old Yamaha DVD-C750 changer which has no HDMI out - best video output is only component out, just to test the component to HDMI upconversion and make sure it still works, especially for my PAL discs. That was OK with my old Yamaha receiver.
> 
> Was surprised to see that new Optoma UHD65 projector has no component input. The only analog video input is VGA.
> Guess it's time to take the component cable off my wall in the HT room.


Thank you for the great details. Could you please try the HOSS cable with the SR7011?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


----------



## madbrain

nunyabiziz said:


> Thank you for the great details. Could you please try the HOSS cable with the SR7011?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I packed my HOSS cable already. I didn't see the point of adding a receiver into the picture if the direct connection between source and display failed.
A Monoprice engineer contacted me after my post and is sending me a replacement HOSS cable to try.
I hope it will work as well as the Slimrun.


----------



## Glenee

rolledoff said:


> Super new at all this, and have no idea how to do the math. Any help will be super appreciated.
> 
> The TV is LG B7A, and AppleTV is the 4K one.
> 
> Will this cable work for 4K Dolby Vision @ 60 Hz @ 4:4:4 chroma mode (and whatever else max spec that the two devices support)? https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Cable-6ft-Connectors-PlayStation/dp/B00NQ9OQU2/
> 
> Thanks!


I don't know , but I am using some of these in 6ft's https://www.amazon.com/Vanco-HDMICP...7066061&sr=1-3&keywords=vanco+hdmi+High+Speed
Other's here are having some luck with the 6ft Monoprice Premium Certified.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> I don't know , but I am using some of these in 6ft's https://www.amazon.com/Vanco-HDMICP...7066061&sr=1-3&keywords=vanco+hdmi+High+Speed
> Other's here are having some luck with the 6ft Monoprice Premium Certified.


Any well made High Speed HDMI cable under about 20' length should work just fine. Where folks start having issues is lengths that are longer than about 20'. The cable link above says they are certified but it doesn't say by who so it's anybody's guess. If they work, they work. The Monoprice cables linked to are not certified either but at 6', there shouldn't be any issues. Oxygen-free copper and gold plating mean nothing other than they add cost to the cable.


----------



## Roudan

Hi GUys

I have been using BlueJean 25 ft cable for almost 1 year for my 4K JVC projector and Samsung UHD player, No problem at all for 25 ft. Here is my cable.

HDMI Cable, BJC Series-1 23 1/2 AWG Belden Bonded-Pair, 25 foot, White~2.74~839~32
Item# HH25WS1~NC02


----------



## Pusia

*Just my 5c*



Otto Pylot said:


> Any well made High Speed HDMI cable under about 20' length should work just fine. Where folks start having issues is lengths that are longer than about 20'. The cable link above says they are certified but it doesn't say by who so it's anybody's guess. If they work, they work. The Monoprice cables linked to are not certified either but at 6', there shouldn't be any issues. Oxygen-free copper and gold plating mean nothing other than they add cost to the cable.


I have purchased this cable Mediabridge HDMI Cable (15 Feet) - Supports [email protected] - High Speed, Hand-Tested, HDMI 2.0 Ready - UHD, 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel, Ethernet (Part# 91-02X-15B ) from Amazon.
my setup is 
tv:2017 LG 65e7p - Apple tv4k....... Chroma 4.4.4, 4k HDR 60hz, 4k Dolby vision 60hz DO NOT WORK 
All I can do is the 30hz of the above and 4.2.0
They claim they test and hand pick all the cables they make what a bull Will try the mono price certified cable and will report back.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pusia said:


> I have purchased this cable Mediabridge HDMI Cable (15 Feet) - Supports [email protected] - High Speed, Hand-Tested, HDMI 2.0 Ready - UHD, 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel, Ethernet (Part# 91-02X-15B ) from Amazon.
> my setup is
> tv:2017 LG 65e7p - Apple tv4k....... Chroma 4.4.4, 4k HDR 60hz, 4k Dolby vision 60hz DO NOT WORK
> All I can do is the 30hz of the above and 4.2.0
> They claim they test and hand pick all the cables they make what a bull Will try the mono price certified cable and will report back.


All cables are "hand tested" in the literal sense of the word. Individually or batch tested would be more accurate but most cable mfrs will not mention that. I've used MediaBridge in the past and they've been fine (at least for 1080p). 15' is not a bad length but you need to factor in which HDMI chipsets are being used in your source and sink devices because there are other factors that come into play other than the data pipe, which is all the cable is. MediaBridge mentions HDMI 2.0 compatible, but they don't advertise HDMI 2.0b so that may be your problem. Ethernet means nothing.


----------



## apw2607

I'll just add my few cents to trying out the 30m/65 ft Ruipro HDMI fiber cable.

Seems to work fine between Oppo 203 and Sony XBR 900E at [email protected]

I don't have a 4K receiver yet, but was interested to know if the Ruipro supports the Audio Return Channel (ARC). So I plugged the cable between receiver and TV. We're just dealing with 1080p at this point, but the results were interesting.

First I found the that the Denon receiver (AVR-4311) didn't seem to like the cable. I had to wiggle it around to get a picture. Next on to the ARC test.

With Youtube or Sony Vue X900E Android TV apps, there were no issues with ARC.

However if I used the 900E Android, Sony 4K Ultra app or Amazon that outputs Dolby Digital +, then the ARC audio would cut in and out. I changed the TV digital audio output to PCM, thinking that might fix the issue, but it didn't.

The moment I used a regular HDMI cable for the 1080p/ARC test with the Sony 4K Ultra or the Amazon app .... there were no issues. Very odd.


----------



## Dreamliner

apw2607 said:


> I'll just add my few cents to trying out the 30m/65 ft Ruipro HDMI fiber cable.
> 
> Seems to work fine between Oppo 203 and Sony XBR 900E at [email protected]
> 
> I don't have a 4K receiver yet, but was interested to know if the Ruipro supports the Audio Return Channel (ARC). So I plugged the cable between receiver and TV. We're just dealing with 1080p at this point, but the results were interesting.
> 
> First I found the that the Denon receiver (AVR-4311) didn't seem to like the cable. I had to wiggle it around to get a picture. Next on to the ARC test.
> 
> With Youtube or Sony Vue X900E Android TV apps, there were no issues with ARC.
> 
> However if I used the 900E Android, Sony 4K Ultra app or Amazon that outputs Dolby Digital +, then the ARC audio would cut in and out. I changed the TV digital audio output to PCM, thinking that might fix the issue, but it didn't.
> 
> The moment I used a regular HDMI cable for the 1080p/ARC test with the Sony 4K Ultra or the Amazon app .... there were no issues. Very odd.


I wonder what the RUIPRO uses for cable for the ARC. I only recommend RUIPRO for long runs and the Monoprice certified premium cables for everything else (see sig link). After you re-seated the RUIPRO in the 4311 did it give you any more trouble?


----------



## apw2607

Dreamliner said:


> I wonder what the RUIPRO uses for cable for the ARC. I only recommend RUIPRO for long runs and the Monoprice certified premium cables for everything else (see sig link). After you re-seated the RUIPRO in the 4311 did it give you any more trouble?


I'm afraid so. It just didn't like the 4311. So I can't really confidently say there is a issue with ARC and long runs using Ruipro, since it could have being the 4311.

Obviously for folks using the cable with a projector, which is probably the majority, its a moot point anyway.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ruipro has two cables. One is a hybrid and I believe that it works better for ARC than the non-hybrid cable. ARC is problematic for a lot of setups, especially with 4k HDR. A lot has to do with the HDMI chipset versions you have for source and sink as well, so it's not always just the cable. eARC is part of the new HDMI 2.1 hardware spec, and will probably use the ethernet channel in HDMI cables because HDMI ethernet is meaningless at this point in time. The Ruipro hybrid cable should handle that just fine because it has a copper wire in it as well as fiber. But that's HDMI 2.1 and we are quite a ways off before that becomes the hardware norm. I just don't bother with ARC/CEC and just run everything thru my receiver with an HDMI cable out for video and an optical cable for 5.1 audio for OTA television , and just use a Harmony remote for single remote control of my HTS.


----------



## Alex solomon

Can you please recommend a cheap 15' HDMI cables for my Sony X900E. I currently use the Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI but I find the cable a bit stiff. I am concerned I might damage the HDMI port.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Alex solomon said:


> Can you please recommend a cheap 15' HDMI cables for my Sony X900E. I currently use the Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI but I find the cable a bit stiff. I am concerned I might damage the HDMI port.


If you are using a Premium High Speed HDMI cable then it has been certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) and should have come with a QR code for authenticity. 25' is the maximum certifiable length so you can't really do any better. Being as you run is under 20' you shouldn't have any issues with a good quality, high speed hdmi cable. You may be able to find a thinner gauge Premium High Speed HDMI cable if you search Monoprice. There are tricks you can do to mitigate the strain somewhat, depending on your setup. There are also some HDMI connector devices that you can use that will help with the strain. Sorry, but I can't remember what they are now so hopefully someone will chime in.


----------



## PolishDude

Made an individual thread but seems like the right thing to do is post here, dad just bought some new home theater equipment. Nothing too fancy, a Samsung UN75MU6300 and a Yamaha V481 receiver and some Polk S Line speakers. The receiver is located on a different wall from the TV, I think the shortest HDMI cable we can get away with is a 35 feet....maybe a 30 feet. He does not have anything too fancy, will most likely be watching 4k netflix off his Amazon Fire TV that is plugged into the receiver, he may get a 4k player at some point, he also uses the Fire TV for his Direct TV Now subscription. He is coming from a Home Theater in a Box and a 10+ year old Plasma TV which for the last couple years had vertical and horizontal dead pixels on it. Anyways, I believe his TV is 4k 60hz capable as well as HDR. My brother bought some $20 50 foot HDMI cable off of amazon and as soon as we tried to play 4k Netflix through it, it lost signal. Is there a decent cable that will meet his needs for under $50? I am not too worried about future proofing but am worried about reliability and it working now and him getting the most out of his shiny new equipment, the cable will be in the wall so rather not have to replace it often. I don't think spending $150+ on a cable is an option for him, he already busted his budget by doing all of the equipment. 

Honestly is a better option connecting the Amazon Fire TV directly to the TV and sending an optical cable or ARC signal to the receiver for sound? The new setup is a 5.1 and speaker placement isn't optimal since my dad was also worried about aesthetics since this is his living room. I would rather avoid doing that as it seems pointless to have a receiver and not have it do the audio decoding and I feel an optical out or arc audio limits the audio capabilities.


----------



## madbrain

PolishDude said:


> Is there a decent cable that will meet his needs for under $50?


No.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'He does not have anything too fancy' _- just an HDR capable Display, 4K Streamer and a 4K UHD Disc player on the horizon, nothing to worry about there then 

The shorter you can make the HDMI connections the better.

Joe


----------



## PolishDude

madbrain said:


> No.


Haha to the point

yeah I guess that statement doesn't make too much sense on nothing too fancy, i met his equipment isn't some top of the line stuff but I guess regardless if it needs 4k 60hz it needs that weather its a 1500 dollar tv or a 5000 dollar tv


----------



## Pip

PolishDude said:


> ..... I think the shortest HDMI cable we can get away with is a 35 feet....maybe a 30 feet. He does not have anything too fancy, will most likely be watching 4k netflix off his Amazon Fire TV that is plugged into the receiver, he may get a 4k player at some point, .....Anyways, I believe his TV is 4k 60hz capable as well as HDR
> 
> ...... Is there a decent cable that will meet his needs for under $50? .......


BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet (10 M) - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard) $26. I own one. It passes 4k60 HDR 10bit 4.2.0. The same cable in 50ft length did not pass 4K.

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ and that's what we're saying. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is very difficult over about 20' with copper-based cabling. 1080p has never really been an issue. To push 4k HDR over 20' one is probably going to have spend more than they want for a cable that should be reliable (a Hybrid Ruipro for example).


----------



## madbrain

Pip said:


> BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet (10 M) - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard) $26. I own one. It passes 4k60 HDR 10bit 4.2.0. The same cable in 50ft length did not pass 4K.
> 
> Pip


Which sources did you try this cable with ? Do you have a receiver ?

I tried a 40ft HOSS $55 cable from Monoprice which passes 4k60 with my HTPC. It passed it also with my Sony UBP-X800 on the first day, not on the second day after the cable was moved to the other side of the room.
Stopped passing 1080p from Dish hopper too at the same time, even though it was still passing 4K from HTPC. I think the copper cables are highly sensitive to the strength of the transmitter in each source device. At longer lengths, they may not work with all sources.


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ and that's what we're saying. 4k, 4:4:4 @60Hz is very difficult over about 20' with copper-based cabling. 1080p has never really been an issue. To push 4k HDR over 20' one is probably going to have spend more than they want for a cable that should be reliable (a Hybrid Ruipro for example).


and what I am saying is: the "BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - 35 Feet (10 M) - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard) $26" which I bought *does* pass 4k60HZ HDR 10bit 4:2:0. 

I have been assured in several posts, by members more knowledgeable than I, that that for any and all video (non pc) sources, there is no benefit to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 over 4:2:0. Perhaps you can shed more light on that issue. I fully admit to knowing little about it. 

But I can report that *both* the the BluRigger 35ft, and Blue Jeans Series 1 25 ft *do pass 4K60HZ HDR 10bit* @4:2:0 - at least when fed from a Denon 4300. 

I can also report that both the Ruipro and Dtech 50ft Fiber cables will pass 4K60 HDR 10bit @4:2:0, and are extremely easy to work with. 


Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ quite a few folks are adamant about pushing 4:4:4 @60Hz and yes, I agree that most would have difficulty seeing the difference. 4:2:0 is DVD quality. For the purists who just need to push the absolute latest this is an issue for them, especially when they are lead to believe that said cable can pass anything. The bottom line is that if you're happy with the results then that's all that matters. It's the same argument we use for calibrations (with a light meter and software) vs adjusting with just a disk, or borrowing settings from someone else (not recommended).


----------



## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ quite a few folks are adamant about pushing 4:4:4 @60Hz and yes, I agree that most would have difficulty seeing the difference. 4:2:0 is DVD quality. For the purists who just need to push the absolute latest this is an issue for them, especially when they are lead to believe that said cable can pass anything. The bottom line is that if you're happy with the results then that's all that matters. It's the same argument we use for calibrations (with a light meter and software) vs adjusting with just a disk, or borrowing settings from someone else (not recommended).


So you are saying that 4K 10bit at 4:2:0 is DVD quality?

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> So you are saying that 4K 10bit at 4:2:0 is DVD quality?
> 
> Pip


4:2:0 chroma subsampling is the color space used for DVD-Video and Blu-ray.


----------



## sotti

Otto Pylot said:


> 4:2:0 chroma subsampling is the color space used for DVD-Video and Blu-ray.


And UltraHD blu-ray and HDR streaming services.

4:2:2 and 4:4:4 are really only there PCs.


----------



## madbrain

madbrain said:


> Which sources did you try this cable with ? Do you have a receiver ?
> 
> I tried a 40ft HOSS $55 cable from Monoprice which passes 4k60 with my HTPC. It passed it also with my Sony UBP-X800 on the first day, not on the second day after the cable was moved to the other side of the room.
> Stopped passing 1080p from Dish hopper too at the same time, even though it was still passing 4K from HTPC. I think the copper cables are highly sensitive to the strength of the transmitter in each source device. At longer lengths, they may not work with all sources.


FYI, Monoprice sent me a replacement HOSS cable. The new one has worked fine for a week with all my sources at 4K/60p with HDR. This is either directly to the source, or through my SR7011 receiver. Not a single dropout. 
4K sources include Sony UBP-X800 UHD player, HTPC with GT 1030 GPU, Chromecast Ultra.
Other sources are Yamaha DVD-C750 DVD changer (component out, upconverted by receiver), Dish Hopper 2 (HDMI, sends 1080i), PS3 (HDMI, 1080i), 
I'm ready to finally mount the HOSS cable. My Slimrun AV 50ft went back to Monoprice just before the 30 day deadline. I had started getting major dropouts with the Slimrun for some unknown reason.


----------



## Sum820

Otto Pylot said:


> 22Gbps? How did Monster arrive at that speed? Do they offer a certificate of compliance for their 35' active cable that it has been certified by an ATC? Cable mfrs are still playing loose with their claims by making it as confusing as possible for the end-user, not to mention expensive and stressful.


The FIBBR cable is certified by ISF , it`s 18GBPS bandwidth with the optical fiber transmit . I`ve try it , can really make 4K 60FPS


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sum820 said:


> The FIBBR cable is certified by ISF , it`s 18GBPS bandwidth with the optical fiber transmit . I`ve try it , can really make 4K 60FPS


ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) trains calibrators and works with various mfrs but is not a calibration/certification service like HDMI.org’s ATC (Authorized Testing Center). If the cable works as expected that’s great (and most well made fiber or fiber hybrids should depending on length). Does the cable come with a Certificate of Compliance?


----------



## Nutdotnet

So is the consensus for longer runs is to use one of those HDMI Fiber cables?

I need to run a length between 50-60 feet (still need exact measurement). There appears to be a couple (2 on Amazon) cat6 extenders that Support 18gpbs and 4K/60 4:4:4, but they are about the same price as one of these HDMI cables.

I don’t care about spending $200 on a cable if it works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ the general consensus is that for runs longer than about 20', a fiber or fiber hybrid HDMI cable appears to be the most successful for a lot of folks. There are no 100% guarantees because of other factors involved. If you run your cable in a conduit, that's about as close as to one can get for "future proofing" your cable run because it will be easier to swap out the cable at a later date (which you more than likely will have to do as HDMI specs become more demanding in terms of bandwidth). Ideally, your cable run should have no "breaks" in it. In other words, a single cable from source to sink without any adapters or extenders.


----------



## Joe Fernand

‘Supporting’ 18Gbps is not quite the same as passing an 18Gbps signal - currently the Extenders have to apply ‘visually lossless’ compression, which may or may not be an issue for you.

With the Fibre and Hybrid Fibre Cables there is no compression.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1


----------



## Sum820

Otto Pylot said:


> ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) trains calibrators and works with various mfrs but is not a calibration/certification service like HDMI.org’s ATC (Authorized Testing Center). If the cable works as expected that’s great (and most well made fiber or fiber hybrids should depending on length). Does the cable come with a Certificate of Compliance?


ISF is a kind of industy standard , get a ISF HDMI certifications means this manufacture have the ability to provide the products with high level standard . 
I just view the ISF website , can check the FIBBR on the website manufacture , but can not get more certificate detail ( like how they test ) . 
And i see the ISF logo is already on the FIBBR`s products picture which is selling on Amazon , i guess that is the certificate of compliance .


----------



## Otto Pylot

Sum820 said:


> ISF is a kind of industy standard , get a ISF HDMI certifications means this manufacture have the ability to provide the products with high level standard .
> I just view the ISF website , can check the FIBBR on the website manufacture , but can not get more certificate detail ( like how they test ) .
> And i see the ISF logo is already on the FIBBR`s products picture which is selling on Amazon , i guess that is the certificate of compliance .


The bottom line is that if the cable meets your needs and expectations, then that's all that matters. While it is true that ISF sets some standards for imaging fidelity, it is not a calibration/certification service. All the logo means is that the cable mfr has told ISF that their cable meets their standards, for a fee, but you don't know how the cable mfr certified/tested the cable (or a random representation of the batch of cables) and there is no proof of compliance like there is for an ATC certified cable. My tv meets ISF standards for calibrator settings but that doesn't mean it was certified by ISF. It just has the ability to probably meets those standards with a proper calibration. The ISF logo is just a logo, it is not a certificate of compliance.


----------



## bytebuster

Folks, I am having trouble with my 50 foot rupiro cable in a dual monitor setup. All my devices are hooked up to my denon AVR. When only the rupiro is connected to the monitor output on the avr, everything works as expected. This cable goes to my projector. But, when I connect the second monitor out on the AVR to my second display (a tv), I get no signal on the tv. In fact, sometimes, when I do get signal, picture keeps toggling on and off
If I disconnect the rupiro on either the AVR or projector side, the tv works fine


----------



## bytebuster

Do optical cables like the rupiro constantly carry a signal even if the display is in standby. If yes, this may be throwing off the denon?s Auto hdmi detection. If I manually select the hdmi monitor out, then no issues. But there has to be a better way to fix this. It?s a pain to go into the denon setup menu to manually select the hdmi out


----------



## vagos1103gr1

I order a hoss 25ft from monoprice to connect with uhd65 and onkyo receiver and nvidia shield. The sheild supports most of the resolutions except 4k60 444 12 bit chroma. I can get 422 12 bit rec 2020 with some artifacts in certain scenes. Should I go with fiber optic?


----------



## Pip

bytebuster said:


> Do optical cables like the rupiro constantly carry a signal even if the display is in standby. If yes, this may be throwing off the denon?s Auto hdmi detection. If I manually select the hdmi monitor out, then no issues. But there has to be a better way to fix this. It?s a pain to go into the denon setup menu to manually select the hdmi out


 Search my posts from the last few weeks for more detailed info. But I’m sorry to tell you there is no better way to fix this. This is how it works with any active HDMI cable, and any receiver with multiple HDMI outputs. You can thank Hollywood’s HDCP paranoia. 

Pip


----------



## bytebuster

Hey Pip, but this is a passive Rupiro cable. No usb power needed for this
Does your comment apply to passive cables as well

This appears to be a HDCP issue for sure. When I turn off the projector, the TV works. But as soon as I force a hdmi handshake by powering off/on the TV, the connected source, (Tivo) in this case, complains of protection violation (i am guessing this is a HDCP thing)

So confused


----------



## carsar123

What the reason manufacturers block [email protected] through 4:2:0 subsampling?
Hdmi 2.0 easily handles it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bytebuster said:


> Hey Pip, but this is a passive Rupiro cable. No usb power needed for this
> Does your comment apply to passive cables as well
> 
> This appears to be a HDCP issue for sure. When I turn off the projector, the TV works. But as soon as I force a hdmi handshake by powering off/on the TV, the connected source, (Tivo) in this case, complains of protection violation (i am guessing this is a HDCP thing)
> 
> So confused


HDCP 2.1 source to HDCP 1.4 sink, maybe?


----------



## Joe Fernand

AVR Dual HDMI Out - your problem is far from unique and not limited to any particular type of HDMI cable, that are many folk who find they have to toggle between Out A or B rather than A+B. 

Projector and TV - do they have the same range of capabilities or is one a 4K UHD capable device and the other an HD capable device?

HDCP - starts with the Sink (Display) device and in the world of HDMI all devices have to maintain a constant connection with the system, when you make a change 'upstream' of a Sink (Display) it has to react to that change and potentially start a new HDCP session with your Source device.

Joe


----------



## bytebuster

Joe Fernand said:


> AVR Dual HDMI Out - your problem is far from unique and not limited to any particular type of HDMI cable, that are many folk who find they have to toggle between Out A or B rather than A+B.
> 
> Projector and TV - do they have the same range of capabilities or is one a 4K UHD capable device and the other an HD capable device?
> 
> Joe


Hey Joe,
Both displays are not 4k. A 1080 Samsung plasma and a 1080 Epson projector.
I had copper HDMI cables running to both displays and that worked as expected. No issues for 2 years.
I wanted to replace one of the copper cables with the Rupiro because I was seeing random HDMI "no signal" issues with the projector. Not sure if the issue is the projector, AVR or cable. Anyways, replaced the copper cable with the passive Rupiro to check if my cable is an issue. And bam, I now see this HDCP issue. 
Does the cable have any kind of active component inside it that is triggering this new HDCP negotiation?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Ruipro Hybrid Fibre HDMI - utilises Fibre to send Video (with audio) to the Sink (Display) and Copper to bring the DDC, EDID and HDCP back from the Sink to the AVR or Source, they are not 'passive' as they have to draw power from the Source and Sink to drive the Opto. electronics.

As per previous post before the arrival of Active Fibre and Hybrid Fibre cables we have worked with numerous systems where the AVR had issues when connected to two Display devices - a Firmware update on any of the the connected devices can cause a problem.

Firmware - ensure all devices are up-to-date.

AVR Output A+B - try swapping the Outputs around, something as simple as that can change how the system interacts, ensure you power all devices Off at the wall before you connect or disconnect HDMI cables.

Joe


----------



## bobbino421

I just ordered 2 HDMI cables from monoprice,DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K, HDR, 18Gbps, 34AWG, CL2, 10ft, Black. They are new products. Anyone have these yet and can tell me if they are any good? For the price I figured I could take a chance.


----------



## bobbino421

Another question I can?t be the only one that thinks AudioQuest is way overpriced? I just took a look at their top of the line cable the diamond series and at 3 foot it was a $1000! They can?t be serious! I don?t mind paying for something good and I believe you get what u pay for, but really! Someone on a tv thread was swearing by them but the were kinda obnoxious about it because he owns both hi end LG and Sony Oleds.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobbino421 said:


> Another question I can?t be the only one that thinks AudioQuest is way overpriced? I just took a look at their top of the line cable the diamond series and at 3 foot it was a $1000! They can?t be serious! I don?t mind paying for something good and I believe you get what u pay for, but really! Someone on a tv thread was swearing by them but the were kinda obnoxious about it because he owns both hi end LG and Sony Oleds.


No, you are not the only person who thinks AudioQuest, Monster, etc are way overpriced. Those types of cables can be spec'd out to limits that are far beyond what the human eye and ear can perceive so why pay for something that you can't appreciate. All the extra stuff (oxygen-free copper, gold plating, etc) that they push in their marketing is just that, marketing. It has no real effect on the performance. Folks who swear that their audio and video is noticeably better are probably just trying to justify the cost of the cables. Well made cables that cost much less will perform just as well in home settings.


----------



## Pip

bytebuster said:


> Hey Pip, but this is a passive Rupiro cable. No usb power needed for this
> Does your comment apply to passive cables as well
> 
> This appears to be a HDCP issue for sure. When I turn off the projector, the TV works. But as soon as I force a hdmi handshake by powering off/on the TV, the connected source, (Tivo) in this case, complains of protection violation (i am guessing this is a HDCP thing)
> 
> So confused





bytebuster said:


> Hey Joe,
> Both displays are not 4k. A 1080 Samsung plasma and a 1080 Epson projector.
> I had copper HDMI cables running to both displays and that worked as expected. No issues for 2 years.
> I wanted to replace one of the copper cables with the Rupiro because I was seeing random HDMI "no signal" issues with the projector. Not sure if the issue is the projector, AVR or cable. Anyways, replaced the copper cable with the passive Rupiro to check if my cable is an issue. And bam, I now see this HDCP issue.
> Does the cable have any kind of active component inside it that is triggering this new HDCP negotiation?


All optical cables are active or hybrid. Most active cables do not require external usb power.

From my extensive troubleshooting detailed in past posts - 4 displays, 2 AVRs, 3 source devices, 3 active/hybrid cables, many passive cables; I made a spreadsheet with every possible permutation of all of the above components. One thing remains constant - whenever you output through *both* HDMI outputs, and *any* display *connected with an active cable is powered off*, it is virtually impossible to get an HDCP handshake on your other display. 

It is possible to also have problems with coper cables, but like you, most people never do. 

This HDCP issue doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your active cable or any of your components. The only problem is Hollywood's HDPC protocol. It's a shame because optical cables are wonderful to work with.

Pip


----------



## Otto Pylot

Pip said:


> All optical cables are active or hybrid. Most active cables do not require external usb power.


I think we need to clearly define what is meant by an optical cable. Optical cables are typically what is used to connect the audio output from the tv to a receiver. It is limited to 5.1 audio from either the SmartApps or OTA. 

A FIBER cable (which is an optical fiber "wire") is what is typically being used in lieu of an HDMI cable, whether it is powered internally (from sink) or has an external power supply. A hybrid fiber cable has a copper wire in addition to the fiber wire.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Plenty folk using all copper cables have problems with Dual Output AVR’s - often the problem is more prevalent where you have one ‘Old’ plus one New Display (which can be a typical scenario where folk are upgrading and repurposing an older display to a second Zone).

The first time I came across this issue a customers Projector ‘locked up’ and refused to power back on!

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pip

Otto Pylot said:


> I think we need to clearly define what is meant by an optical cable. Optical cables are typically what is used to connect the audio output from the tv to a receiver. It is limited to 5.1 audio from either the SmartApps or OTA.
> 
> A FIBER cable (which is an optical fiber "wire") is what is typically being used in lieu of an HDMI cable, whether it is powered internally (from sink) or has an external power supply. A hybrid fiber cable has a copper wire in addition to the fiber wire.


A good clarification thank you. I was referring to optical fiber HDMI cables, not optical fiber audio cables.

Pip


----------



## Glenee

bobbino421 said:


> I just ordered 2 HDMI cables from monoprice,DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K, HDR, 18Gbps, 34AWG, CL2, 10ft, Black. They are new products. Anyone have these yet and can tell me if they are any good? For the price I figured I could take a chance.


Do let us know how you get along.


----------



## scarabaeus

carsar123 said:


> What the reason manufacturers block [email protected] through 4:2:0 subsampling?
> Hdmi 2.0 easily handles it.


HDMI 2.0 only specified 50 and 60 Hz for 4:2:0 2160p, but they forgot (or didn't care about) 120 Hz. Maybe HDMI 2.1 will remedy this.


----------



## bobbino421

Glenee said:


> bobbino421 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just ordered 2 HDMI cables from monoprice,DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable, 4K, HDR, 18Gbps, 34AWG, CL2, 10ft, Black. They are new products. Anyone have these yet and can tell me if they are any good? For the price I figured I could take a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> Do let us know how you get along.
Click to expand...

Watched 2 UHD movies on disc Wonder Women and War for the planet of the apes with no issues today.


----------



## Signia

Can anyone recommend a 15' run through a wall to my AVR/PS4 Pro? I am having issues with the older hdmi cables not working with my PS4 Pro when I turn on the Enhanced option on my Sony XBR65X930E. I tried a 12' blackweb cable from Walmart and did not get a signal but the 6' version worked fine. So I need a 15' cable to go from the TV to my AVR(which is 4K HDR HDMI Enhanced compatible) and a 6' cable to go from my PS4 Pro to the AVR.

Thank you!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Signia said:


> Can anyone recommend a 15' run through a wall to my AVR/PS4 Pro? I am having issues with the older hdmi cables not working with my PS4 Pro when I turn on the Enhanced option on my Sony XBR65X930E. I tried a 12' blackweb cable from Walmart and did not get a signal but the 6' version worked fine. So I need a 15' cable to go from the TV to my AVR(which is 4K HDR HDMI Enhanced compatible) and a 6' cable to go from my PS4 Pro to the AVR.
> 
> Thank you!


At 21' total length you should be able to get away with ATC certified passive cables from any reputable mfr such as Monoprice, MediaBridge, BJC, etc. HDMI Enhanced sounds like a marketing phrase for a firmware upgrade to meet basic HDR requirements so it could be a hardware incompatibility as well with your PS4 Pro and Sony. Try thicker cables (22AWG) but you will lose flexibility and may increase the strain on your HDMI inputs so be very mindful of bend radius. Cable cost does not equate to quality or increased reliability so be wary of claims by some cable mfrs on their overpriced cables. Are you using a conduit for the 15' run thru the wall?


----------



## rayh271

final version of hdmi 2.1 spec finally here

https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/28/hdmi-2-1-specification-is-now-available-with-10k/

hopefully manufacturers will start producing these new 2.1 cables for testing......unlikely to see these new cables until early nxt year......as tvs that will be shown at ces 2018...are more than likely to include the new hdmi 2.1 spec...i suspect gpu manufacturers will follow suit too for the pc....in the not so distant future.....the good thing about this new 2.1 spec is...we wont have to upgrade any cables for at least a decade


----------



## Joe Fernand

Not sure on your timing!

_'The HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) will be published in stages during Q1-Q3 2018, and HDMI adopters will be notified when it is available'_ - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2937600-hdmi-2-1-spec-released.html

I suspect you will see HDMI 2.1 splattered all over kit at CES - with a footnote about future FW updates being required!

Joe


----------



## WildBoar

Pip said:


> From my extensive troubleshooting detailed in past posts - 4 displays, 2 AVRs, 3 source devices, 3 active/hybrid cables, many passive cables; I made a spreadsheet with every possible permutation of all of the above components. One thing remains constant - whenever you output through *both* HDMI outputs, and *any* display *connected with an active cable is powered off*, it is virtually impossible to get an HDCP handshake on your other display.


So in my current setup (4K A/V receiver with dual outputs through HDMI passive cables, one to a 4K projector and the other one to a very old flat panel TV) I'd probably suffer from issues if I'd replace my longest HDMI cable (28ft) by an active one?

That's something weird


----------



## Pip

WildBoar said:


> So in my current setup (4K A/V receiver with dual outputs through HDMI passive cables, one to a 4K projector and the other one to a very old flat panel TV) I'd probably suffer from issues if I'd replace my longest HDMI cable (28ft) by an active one?
> 
> That's something weird


Yes you will have one issue - you will not get a handshake if you output through *both* HDMI outs simultaneously *and* the display connected by the active cable is powered off.

You can thank Hollywood's HDCP paranoia.

Pip


----------



## Joe Fernand

WildBoar- if everything works as required now with Standard or High Speed cables there is every chance it will be the same if you replaced your long cables (to cater for 4K UHD) with an Active, Fibre or Hybrid Fibre cable.

Very tricky to predict how devices will interact.

Often customers with Dual HDMI Output AVR have to get used to toggling between A, B or A+B (no mater what cables they employ).

Joe

PS AS PIP says we are all at the mercy of HDCP.


----------



## WildBoar

I don't have any issues AFAIK, my cable tv box (1080i) and my UHD player are hooked to my AVR and are working as expected: I watch 4K HDR 10 bits movies and tv series/movies (1080i) in the projector and tv series/movies (1080i) in the flat panel TV.

I have to say that my flat panel TV has a switch for a real power on/off (not standby as a lot of modern display devices) and when I'm using the projector I have it totally powered off so that's probably helping in some way.


----------



## WildBoar

Pip said:


> Yes you will have one issue - you will not get a handshake if you output through *both* HDMI outs simultaneously *and* the display connected by the active cable is powered off.


What if the display connected by the active cable is not really powered off like many modern display devices?
If you're able to power on remotely a device then itsn't really powered off, is it?


----------



## Tweakophyte

CraigAmey said:


> It sounds like you're trying to run RGB 444 as the Luxe cable should be capable of 4K60 HDR with YUV 420 which is what most movies are formatted in. Check the settings on the Oppo to make sure you're not trying to output RGB 444 (as it's unnecessary here). If that is what you want to do there are a couple of things you need to know.
> 
> 1. 4K60 HDR is only possible with YUV 420 as RGB 444 10 bit exceeds the HDMI spec. 4K60 HDR (10 bit) YUV 420 required about 12Gb/s and most cables can do that. I use 35ft Cabernet Active cables and they handle it fine.
> 
> 2. The Ultra Slim Active will not pass 4K60 RGB 444 (17.8Gb/s) even at 6ft, nor will the passive Ultra Slim (I've tried). The only Monoprice cables that will do that are the Certified Premium cables and they'll handle it up to 20ft.
> 
> 3. At 35ft your only option for 4K60 RGB 444 is the Belden BJC Series-1 but that cable is thick enough it's going to create a lump under your carpet
> 
> I have a working setup that passes 4K60 RGB 444 through the wall via a 25 ft BJC Series-1 to a RiteAV double sided HDMI wallplate and then to a 5ft Monster Black Platinum. For the short run a Monoprice CP 6ft and Rocketfish 4ft also worked (many tried and failed).


 @CraigAmey How is your Belden set-up working?


I am getting ready to pull one or two cables. I believe I can get a straight run from my projector to my receiver with a 20' Belden BJC Series 1 cable, but my concern is the stiffness of the cable will strain both sides of the connection. This 20' has enough slack that I can move the receiver (and component) stack away from the wall for hooking up new devices.

Alternatively I can pull a 15' BJC Series 1 cable to a wall-plate or two and use shorter HDMI cable (like the 3-ft mono-price certified) on one or both ends.

All my gear will be run through a Denon H6300x using the same mono-price cables.

Thoughts?

Thanks,


----------



## Tweakophyte

Anyone have updates on the quality of KabelDirekt versus the Blue Jeans Belden BJC Series 1?

Separately, we purchase a lot of mono-price cables at work, and have found their QC to be off. Many time there are pins missing (not bent) in the connectors. That is not to discourage anyone from purchasing, but at least you know to check. I'll double-check if the cables we get are the certified 18gbs or not.


----------



## Pip

WildBoar said:


> What if the display connected by the active cable is not really powered off like many modern display devices?
> If you're able to power on remotely a device then itsn't really powered off, is it?


If you mean in standby mode, then yes, you will have the same problem. I can't speak for every display of course, but I have now tested six: JVC projector, Sony, Vizio, 2 TCL TVs, and a Samsung monitor. 

If the display is not powered on showing an image, you will not get an HDCP authorization. This persists if the display is in standby, or even completely disconnected from AC power.

The workaround is to select only one HDMI output at a time, or physically disconnect the active HDMI cable at either end.

Pip


----------



## WildBoar

Joe Fernand said:


> Often customers with Dual HDMI Output AVR have to get used to toggling between A, B or A+B (no mater what cables they employ).


I have to say that's a step backwards IMHO


----------



## 92hatchattack

Hey guys, I need some cables. I'm afraid I didn't read this whole 67 page thread but I need cables that will do 4k/60/HDR/4:4:4 . Can anyone recommend me some cables that I can purchase on amazon? I need two 8' lengths and one 20' length. I will be using these with a reciever, Playstation Pro, and high end gaming PC.

Which cables should I buy? 

Thanks guys!


----------



## Otto Pylot

92hatchattack said:


> Hey guys, I need some cables. I'm afraid I didn't read this whole 67 page thread but I need cables that will do 4k/60/HDR/4:4:4 . Can anyone recommend me some cables that I can purchase on amazon? I need two 8' lengths and one 20' length. I will be using these with a reciever, Playstation Pro, and high end gaming PC.
> 
> Which cables should I buy?
> 
> Thanks guys!


I replied to you in your other post. Please keep your questions to one post as it makes it easier to answer you and for others to follow.


----------



## SpykeSIK

Pip said:


> If you mean in standby mode, then yes, you will have the same problem. I can't speak for every display of course, but I have now tested six: JVC projector, Sony, Vizio, 2 TCL TVs, and a Samsung monitor.
> 
> If the display is not powered on showing an image, you will not get an HDCP authorization. This persists if the display is in standby, or even completely disconnected from AC power.
> 
> The workaround is to select only one HDMI output at a time, or physically disconnect the active HDMI cable at either end.
> 
> Pip


Is this true for Oppo 203 also? It has a dual HDMI output: HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for sound (but has a black screen) I plan to use an active HDMI cable from HDMI 1 output straight into the projector.


----------



## Pip

SpykeSIK said:


> Is this true for Oppo 203 also? It has a dual HDMI output: HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for sound (but has a black screen) I plan to use an active HDMI cable from HDMI 1 output straight into the projector.


I can't say for sure as I don't have an Oppo, but I doubt that you will have a problem. Your situation is entirely different. 

Pip


----------



## SpykeSIK

Pip said:


> I can't say for sure as I don't have an Oppo, but I doubt that you will have a problem. Your situation is entirely different.
> 
> Pip


Thanks. I ordered the Hosse 40ft. 

I'll report the results later.

UPD: They cancelled my order. I can't get my money back.


----------



## Glenee

SpykeSIK said:


> Thanks. I ordered the Hosse 40ft.
> 
> I'll report the results later.
> 
> UPD: They cancelled my order. I can't get my money back.


What do you mean they cancelled your order and you can't get your money back ? Please explain situation a little more.


----------



## SpykeSIK

Glenee said:


> What do you mean they cancelled your order and you can't get your money back ? Please explain situation a little more.


Today I received my money back. They canceled the order, because I bought the wire at the sale and also used a 20% coupon. They asked me to make an order again and pay it through Amazon Pay, but now I have to pay 20% more.


----------



## JJ7

I just wanted to confirm that Monoprice HOSS is a good choice for a 35' run with 4K, HDR, etc... This is to support a new JVC e-shift projector driven by a Denon X4300H. The Denon is using dual-output to drive a 1080p LCD TV (connected via HDbaseT). I've heard about the problems with active cables and dual-output, but my plan is to only use a single display at any given time, as the monitor is behind a motorized screen.

So is HOSS 35' a good choice for this application? I may honestly buy and pull two of them (through conduit in my ceiling) as I'd find the downtime due to an active cable failure to be annoying. Is there something else comparable or better to consider?

And having reviewed some recent posts in this thread it looks like 35' blue rigger might be reasonable too? So getting 1 HOSS and 1 blue rigger might be a good plan?


----------



## pbpatel98

JJ7 said:


> I just wanted to confirm that Monoprice HOSS is a good choice for a 35' run with 4K, HDR, etc... This is to support a new JVC e-shift projector driven by a Denon X4300H. The Denon is using dual-output to drive a 1080p LCD TV (connected via HDbaseT). I've heard about the problems with active cables and dual-output, but my plan is to only use a single display at any given time, as the monitor is behind a motorized screen.
> 
> So is HOSS 35' a good choice for this application? I may honestly buy and pull two of them (through conduit in my ceiling) as I'd find the downtime due to an active cable failure to be annoying. Is there something else comparable or better to consider?
> 
> And having reviewed some recent posts in this thread it looks like 35' blue rigger might be reasonable too? So getting 1 HOSS and 1 blue rigger might be a good plan?


 @JJ7, I have the same setup (JVC DLA-X570R, Denon X4300H) and a 50' BlueRigger did NOT work for me:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW25WY/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## JJ7

pbpatel98 said:


> @JJ7, I have the same setup (JVC DLA-X570R, Denon X4300H) and a 50' BlueRigger did NOT work for me:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GW25WY/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Good to know, thanks. For my first attempt I decided to try combining two certified premium cables (25' and then either 10' or 8') with a blackbird 4K repeater. If that fails then I'll either go HOSS or use try the Ruipro fiber. I probably won't have all the parts for about a week, I'll definitely report back on how it goes...


----------



## Otto Pylot

JJ7 said:


> Good to know, thanks. For my first attempt I decided to try combining two certified premium cables (25' and then either 10' or 8') with a blackbird 4K repeater. If that fails then I'll either go HOSS or use try the Ruipro fiber. I probably won't have all the parts for about a week, I'll definitely report back on how it goes...


4k HDR is really finicky. Combining two cables can introduce a break in the chain which can cause issues. Ideally, a single cable from source to sink is the best option. You may have to consider the hybrid Ruipro cable.


----------



## darkhawk11

Adding my cries of woe to the HDMI troubles of the world...

Just upgraded to


Vizio P65-E1
Yamaha TSR-7810
PS4 Pro
I'm using the provided HDMI that came with the PS4 Pro to connect it to HDMI 1 on the Yamaha. The Yamaha is connected to the Vizio in HDMI 1/ARC with a 25' cable (I can't go shorter for my full time set-up). I have set the Yamaha to 4K Mode 1.


The first, old HDMI cable I had at that length did not carry the 4K HDR signal from the PS4 Pro through the Yamaha to the TV. I had already bought some "High Speed" 4k cables from Amazon in anticipation of this. They also did not carry it when going through the Yamaha, at least not reliably. Sometimes they would work and cut out after 10-15 minutes. Sometimes they would not work at all. They would carry just 4k or just 1080p with HDR, but not 4k HDR through the Yamaha.


I had another 10-12' cable sitting around and I used that from the Yamaha (moved it out of the entertainment center to another location just to check) to the Vizio - got 4k + HDR with no problems. So, I was believing it was a cable length issue with the 25' and I needed a better cable. Ordered another off Amazon, different name, same results.


I could use the new cable and go direct from the PS4 to the Vizio and get 4k + HDR. So something is going on with degradation or the signal strength the Yamaha is pushing to the TV?



I now have a Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft Black from Monoprice on order. No idea if my odds of success are higher with that - kind of wish I ordered an Active HDMI from them...


Anyone see anything else or know of some other Yamaha - to - Vizio issues? I had hoped the 4k Mode issue would have solved it but seems just a cable length issue from what I've deduced...


----------



## Otto Pylot

20' - 25' seems to be where the problems start with 4k HDR. An active cable is not a magical cable. It just extends the signal longer than the current 25' maximum certifiable distance using a small chipset in the sink end of the cable for error correction, timing, etc. Works great for 1080p. 4k HDR seems to not play well with active cables in a lot of cases.

HDMI chipset versions can also play a part in a successful cable run. Unfortunately there's just no way to easily check if your source and sink devices are on the same versions. Long runs also tend to have bends in the cable run so bend radius becomes a bit more critical for the more demanding video standards and that's where using a conduit for those long runs is about the only way to "future proof" your cabling because cable requirements are going to be changing, again.

A lot of folks are having good luck with fiber or hybrid fiber cables for 4k HDR runs longer that about 25'.


----------



## darkhawk11

The certified premium from Monoprice are working so far. Definitely thicker than normal cables and a bit tough to get plugged into the TV, but no problem with the 4k+HDR signal.


----------



## Blueshound

*RUIPRO vs FIBBR? for Bryston SP3?*

I've been following this thread with interest, having just ordered a JVC DLA-RS640k projector. Source end will be fed by my Bryston SP3 with the newest HDMI board update that supports 4K, UHD (a bit unclear what the limitations of this board are).

Cable length will be around 33'.

There's a lot of favorable comments here in favor of the Ruipro cable, seems to be little user experience with the FIBBR. Can anyone offer a preference based on experience? For my purposes, I think a color capability of 4:2:0 will be fine, I'm not gaming or using a computer feed. I am concerned about a reliable handshake, and not having drop outs. Bluray player will be an Oppo 203.

I'm aware that these cables require power from the HDMI chassis connectors. Bryston is currently trying to confirm with their board supplier that the outputs in fact carry power, as the board is said to provide pass-through of a connected HDMI input to the SP3. Anyone know whether the SP3 HDMI outputs should absolutely behave like other HDMI connections in this regard?

Thanks
Brian


----------



## Otto Pylot

darkhawk11 said:


> The certified premium from Monoprice are working so far. Definitely thicker than normal cables and a bit tough to get plugged into the TV, but no problem with the 4k+HDR signal.


Be very mindful of the bend radius for thicker gauge cables. That's the drawback, the loss of flexibility and increased strain on the HMDI inputs. You might want to consider a 90 degree elbow which may help mitigate any extra strain on the input.


----------



## sshah3

JJ7 said:


> I just wanted to confirm that Monoprice HOSS is a good choice for a 35' run with 4K, HDR, etc... This is to support a new JVC e-shift projector driven by a Denon X4300H. The Denon is using dual-output to drive a 1080p LCD TV (connected via HDbaseT). I've heard about the problems with active cables and dual-output, but my plan is to only use a single display at any given time, as the monitor is behind a motorized screen.
> 
> So is HOSS 35' a good choice for this application? I may honestly buy and pull two of them (through conduit in my ceiling) as I'd find the downtime due to an active cable failure to be annoying. Is there something else comparable or better to consider?
> 
> And having reviewed some recent posts in this thread it looks like 35' blue rigger might be reasonable too? So getting 1 HOSS and 1 blue rigger might be a good plan?


Is this the cable you are talking about?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...MI0sO6-tfq2AIVkx2BCh3QDAu-EAQYASABEgKLOfD_BwE


I am about to have low voltage in a Reno set up a 35 foot run for Denon 4400 to a Sony 940e. I want to make sure I don?t have any degradation


----------



## darkhawk11

Otto Pylot said:


> Be very mindful of the bend radius for thicker gauge cables. That's the drawback, the loss of flexibility and increased strain on the HMDI inputs. You might want to consider a 90 degree elbow which may help mitigate any extra strain on the input.


I threw one on there this weekend: feels like it puts a bit of cantilevered load/moment into the fitting now, so may string the plug head portion of the cable to the TV mount with some thread to offload it a bit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

darkhawk11 said:


> I threw one on there this weekend: feels like it puts a bit of cantilevered load/moment into the fitting now, so may string the plug head portion of the cable to the TV mount with some thread to offload it a bit.


I have seen some folks do that very thing by attaching a small piece of string or even a zip tie around the cable and then either threading it thru a ventilation slot or attaching it to something else behind the receiver and/or rack. Anything to give it a bit more support.


----------



## BakeApples

Have anyone here tried if this Monoprice cable can pass trouble free [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma on lenghts of 40ft?
https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1025503&p_id=14472&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Otto Pylot

BakeApples said:


> Have anyone here tried if this Monoprice cable can pass trouble free [email protected] with 4:4:4 chroma on lenghts of 40ft?
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1025503&p_id=14472&seq=1&format=2


Those are active cables (nothing magical about active cables) but the wire gauge is 34AWG, which is pretty thin. They do have the newer HDMI chips in the sink end but are not certified and if you read the description carefully, it implies that all of the "specs" are available in 10' and 15' lengths. CL2 is a fire rating for in-wall installation but I'd never install an HDMI cable in-wall without using a conduit. That is the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling. Being as it's Monoprice, you can go ahead and give them a shot and if it doesn't work, just return it. Keep in mind that the HDMI chips in your devices also play a big factor in a successful cable run. The HDMI chip versions all have to be on the same page otherwise your connection will "fall back" to the common hardware version. The cable is just a data path.


----------



## Mojave1813

I have PS4 and other players connected to a Yamaha receiver via HDMI and then HDMI out from receiver to TV. Just switched from a Panasonic plasma to a LG OLED55B7A and this connection is not recognized. If I connect PS4 directly to OLED TV it works fine bit not through the receiver. Is this related to the type of HDMI cable too? Does it matter which HDMI input is used on the LG OLED TV?

Thanks for any advice.


----------



## neocataboi

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are active cables (nothing magical about active cables) but the wire gauge is 34AWG, which is pretty thin. They do have the newer HDMI chips in the sink end but are not certified and if you read the description carefully, it implies that all of the "specs" are available in 10' and 15' lengths. CL2 is a fire rating for in-wall installation but I'd never install an HDMI cable in-wall without using a conduit. That is the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling. Being as it's Monoprice, you can go ahead and give them a shot and if it doesn't work, just return it. Keep in mind that the HDMI chips in your devices also play a big factor in a successful cable run. The HDMI chip versions all have to be on the same page otherwise your connection will "fall back" to the common hardware version. The cable is just a data path.


I just want to make one quick correction on this. The specs listed on the product page are per cable thickness, so the 34AWG is available in the 10ft and 15ft. We tested to make sure that the cable meet the full specs at all of the lengths offered, the catch is that the longer cables will get thicker. We will be launching a 60ft length in the next few weeks that features the same chipset and we've had very solid connectivity/reliability in our labs and interop testing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

neocataboi said:


> I just want to make one quick correction on this. The specs listed on the product page are per cable thickness, so the 34AWG is available in the 10ft and 15ft. We tested to make sure that the cable meet the full specs at all of the lengths offered, the catch is that the longer cables will get thicker. We will be launching a 60ft length in the next few weeks that features the same chipset and we've had very solid connectivity/reliability in our labs and interop testing.


Do you offer a Certificate of Compliance with each cable length? 

Unless the connected devices have the same chipset version, even tho HDMI cables are backwards compatible, there sill may be issues.


----------



## JJ7

sshah3 said:


> Is this the cable you are talking about?
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...MI0sO6-tfq2AIVkx2BCh3QDAu-EAQYASABEgKLOfD_BwE
> 
> I am about to have low voltage in a Reno set up a 35 foot run for Denon 4400 to a Sony 940e. I want to make sure I don?t have any degradation


Yeah, I was considering those. But much to my surprise the cables my installer used back in 2011 are working fine with [email protected] and HDR. So I ended up not buying anything new at this point


----------



## neocataboi

Otto Pylot said:


> Do you offer a Certificate of Compliance with each cable length?
> 
> Unless the connected devices have the same chipset version, even tho HDMI cables are backwards compatible, there sill may be issues.


There isn't yet a third party certificate yet available for active cables. We don't self issue a CoC, manly because it would be biased and honestly wouldn't prove anything. We don't certify from iSF because they have their hand in the honeypot and are partially biased. We only look for certs from truly independent and reputable parties such as UL and HDMI.org directly. 

That said, UL is currently working on a performance compliance program for all HDMI cables that don't meet the physical requirements to meet the existing HDMI.org specifications. We plan on participating in the program as soon as it goes live and becomes available.


----------



## Otto Pylot

neocataboi said:


> There isn't yet a third party certificate yet available for active cables. We don't self issue a CoC, manly because it would be biased and honestly wouldn't prove anything. We don't certify from iSF because they have their hand in the honeypot and are partially biased. We only look for certs from truly independent and reputable parties such as UL and HDMI.org directly.
> 
> That said, UL is currently working on a performance compliance program for all HDMI cables that don't meet the physical requirements to meet the existing HDMI.org specifications. We plan on participating in the program as soon as it goes live and becomes available.


So, you will eventually participate with an ATC?


----------



## neocataboi

Otto Pylot said:


> So, you will eventually participate with an ATC?


The existing Monoprice cables are all tested and approved at an ATC regardless, to meet the standard HDMI requirements. What i'm referring to is the higher levels of compliance testing, specifically HDMI 2.0 (premium High Speed) performance. We've invested in several lines that meet the Premium High Speed standard which are not only performance standards, but also physical construction/property standards and in order to get the label and meet compliance you need to meet both requirements. The standard was built with copper solutions in mind, so active and AOC cables are not eligible. 

From information that is available, UL is working closely with HDMI.org on creating a program for those cables that meet the performance requirements but do not meet the physical requirements of the program, they will be the only HDMI approved ATC that would be able to certify premium high speed otherwise.

This cert program hasn't yet been completed, so for now it's a matter of waiting. Until then, there are no CoC documents worth their weight aside from the Premium High Speed Certification program from HDMI.org directly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

neocataboi said:


> The existing Monoprice cables are all tested and approved at an ATC regardless, to meet the standard HDMI requirements. What i'm referring to is the higher levels of compliance testing, specifically HDMI 2.0 (premium High Speed) performance. We've invested in several lines that meet the Premium High Speed standard which are not only performance standards, but also physical construction/property standards and in order to get the label and meet compliance you need to meet both requirements. The standard was built with copper solutions in mind, so active and AOC cables are not eligible.
> 
> From information that is available, UL is working closely with HDMI.org on creating a program for those cables that meet the performance requirements but do not meet the physical requirements of the program, they will be the only HDMI approved ATC that would be able to certify premium high speed otherwise.
> 
> This cert program hasn't yet been completed, so for now it's a matter of waiting. Until then, there are no CoC documents worth their weight aside from the Premium High Speed Certification program from HDMI.org directly.


This is good information. Thanks for sharing. We'll be keeping a close eye on your progress.


----------



## longhornsk57

neocataboi said:


> The existing Monoprice cables are all tested and approved at an ATC regardless, to meet the standard HDMI requirements. What i'm referring to is the higher levels of compliance testing, specifically HDMI 2.0 (premium High Speed) performance. We've invested in several lines that meet the Premium High Speed standard which are not only performance standards, but also physical construction/property standards and in order to get the label and meet compliance you need to meet both requirements. The standard was built with copper solutions in mind, so active and AOC cables are not eligible.
> 
> From information that is available, UL is working closely with HDMI.org on creating a program for those cables that meet the performance requirements but do not meet the physical requirements of the program, they will be the only HDMI approved ATC that would be able to certify premium high speed otherwise.
> 
> This cert program hasn't yet been completed, so for now it's a matter of waiting. Until then, there are no CoC documents worth their weight aside from the Premium High Speed Certification program from HDMI.org directly.


So how is this HOSS active 30' cable different than other 30' cables and is it guaranteed 100% to pass 4K60 HDR with no signal loss etc?.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

longhornsk57 said:


> So how is this HOSS active 30' cable different than other 30' cables and is it guaranteed 100% to pass 4K60 HDR with no signal loss etc?.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


No cable mfr will give you a 100% guarantee on their cables, at least they shouldn't, because there are other factors in play other than the data pipe (cable) that is needed for a successful, trouble-free, cable run for 4k HDR over about 20'. Active cables are great for 1080p (nothing magical about an active cable) but 4k HDR is a whole other can of worms. All you can do is try and read the return policy very carefully.


----------



## darkhawk11

Mojave1813 said:


> I have PS4 and other players connected to a Yamaha receiver via HDMI and then HDMI out from receiver to TV. Just switched from a Panasonic plasma to a LG OLED55B7A and this connection is not recognized. If I connect PS4 directly to OLED TV it works fine bit not through the receiver. Is this related to the type of HDMI cable too? Does it matter which HDMI input is used on the LG OLED TV?
> 
> Thanks for any advice.


Is this a PS4 Pro? Are you attempting to get a 4K+HDR or just a 4K signal to the TV?

Do you have the Yamaha set in the correct "4k Mode"? I know with my Yamaha receiver (TSR-7810) I had to switch the mode in order to get 4K+HDR on the TV.

To switch modes (at least with my receiver):



Set the unit to standby mode.
While holding down STRAIGHT on the front panel, press MAIN ZONE
Press PROGRAM to select an item. (4K Mode is one of the items).

Press STRAIGHT to select a setting.
Press MAIN ZONE to set the unit to standby mode and turn it on again.

The difference between the two modes:

MODE 1 Inputs/outputs 4K (60 Hz/50 Hz) signals in 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 format.(4:2:0 format only for VIDEO AUX [HDMI IN] jack) Depending on the connected device or HDMI cables, video may not be displayed correctly. In this case, select “MODE 2”.

MODE 2 Inputs/outputs 4K (60 Hz/50 Hz) signals in 4:2:0 format.

This information will be in your manual - it was near the back for mine.

My set-up is a PS4 Pro to Yamaha TSR-7810 to Vizio P65. I had to change the Mode and also required specific cables because I'm running 25' from the Yamaha to the Vizio (the certified premium from Monoprice).


----------



## madbrain

Otto Pylot said:


> No cable mfr will give you a 100% guarantee on their cables, at least they shouldn't, because there are other factors in play other than the data pipe (cable) that is needed for a successful, trouble-free, cable run for 4k HDR over about 20'. Active cables are great for 1080p (nothing magical about an active cable) but 4k HDR is a whole other can of worms. All you can do is try and read the return policy very carefully.


As a data point, I want to confirm that my second (replacement) HOSS 40ft run works great for me for 4K HDR 60p with an Optoma UHD65 projector, Marantz SR7011 receiver, and a number of 4K sources - HTPC, UHD blu-ray player and Chromecast Ultra. My initial HOSS cable had failed on day 2. My Monoprice Slimrun failed shortly before the 30 day return window closed, possibly because it wasn't mounted, and I no longer have it, and kept the working HOSS instead. It's been wall-mounted and flawless since. The HOSS cable is a great value if you get a working one, IMO. Now I should be set for many years, until it's time to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 .


----------



## Otto Pylot

madbrain said:


> As a data point, I want to confirm that my second (replacement) HOSS 40ft run works great for me for 4K HDR 60p with an Optoma UHD65 projector, Marantz SR7011 receiver, and a number of 4K sources - HTPC, UHD blu-ray player and Chromecast Ultra. My initial HOSS cable had failed on day 2. My Monoprice Slimrun failed shortly before the 30 day return window closed, possibly because it wasn't mounted, and I no longer have it, and kept the working HOSS instead. It's been wall-mounted and flawless since. The HOSS cable is a great value if you get a working one, IMO. Now I should be set for many years, until it's time to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 .


It's great that the HOSS cable, your second one, works great for you. But that just re-enforces the fact that not all cables will work for everyone and that one may need to "experiment" to find a cable that works. Not sure what wall-mounted means unless you mean an in-wall installation, in which case hopefully you've used a conduit. Without the use of a conduit, you may not be "set for many years" as you hope.


----------



## btmille

darkhawk11 said:


> Adding my cries of woe to the HDMI troubles of the world...
> 
> Just upgraded to
> 
> 
> Vizio P65-E1
> Yamaha TSR-7810
> PS4 Pro
> I'm using the provided HDMI that came with the PS4 Pro to connect it to HDMI 1 on the Yamaha. The Yamaha is connected to the Vizio in HDMI 1/ARC with a 25' cable (I can't go shorter for my full time set-up). I have set the Yamaha to 4K Mode 1.
> 
> 
> The first, old HDMI cable I had at that length did not carry the 4K HDR signal from the PS4 Pro through the Yamaha to the TV. I had already bought some "High Speed" 4k cables from Amazon in anticipation of this. They also did not carry it when going through the Yamaha, at least not reliably. Sometimes they would work and cut out after 10-15 minutes. Sometimes they would not work at all. They would carry just 4k or just 1080p with HDR, but not 4k HDR through the Yamaha.
> 
> 
> I had another 10-12' cable sitting around and I used that from the Yamaha (moved it out of the entertainment center to another location just to check) to the Vizio - got 4k + HDR with no problems. So, I was believing it was a cable length issue with the 25' and I needed a better cable. Ordered another off Amazon, different name, same results.
> 
> 
> I could use the new cable and go direct from the PS4 to the Vizio and get 4k + HDR. So something is going on with degradation or the signal strength the Yamaha is pushing to the TV?
> 
> 
> 
> I now have a Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft Black from Monoprice on order. No idea if my odds of success are higher with that - kind of wish I ordered an Active HDMI from them...
> 
> 
> Anyone see anything else or know of some other Yamaha - to - Vizio issues? I had hoped the 4k Mode issue would have solved it but seems just a cable length issue from what I've deduced...


I am also struggling to get a 25' cable run on my setup which is similar. I have:
PS4 Pro
Yamaha TSR-7810 set in MODE 1
Optoma UHD 60

I can get a signal in the PS4 set up menu under 2160P YUV 420 with my current cable. When I switch to the 2160P RGB color setting, the picture drops and comes back. So, I ordered 4 different cables on Amazon and all failed. Here are my results:

- Farstrider HDMI Cable 25ft | Ultra HD HDMI 2.0b(4K @ 60Hz) | High Speed with Ethernet channel | UHD [email protected] | 3D / HDR / ARC / CEC / HDCP | High bandwidth 18 Gbit/s | Pearl Nickel

- Mediabridge HDMI Cable (25 Feet) Supports [email protected], High Speed, Hand-Tested, HDMI 2.0 Ready, 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel

- BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (7.5 M) - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard)

Ultra Clarity Cables
HDMI Cable - 25 FT. 4K Resolution (7.6m) High Speed HDMI Cable (2.0b) Supports Ethernet, Ultra HD, HDR Video, Bandwidth 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel, 25ft (Latest Standard) HDCP 2.2 Compliant 25 Feet

All of those failed to get 2160P RGB. I can get the signal if I put the PS4 Pro direct to the projector. I can't move the Yamaha so I just assume that it is not the receiver.....hopefully. I do have it set in MODE 1 also. It has to be the cable despite using 5 different cables. The cable I am using currently says in the fine print that it doesn't support • 4K 60HZ 4:4:4 (Not Supported) 
• 4K HDR 60HZ (Not Supported) 
However, it works great on everything else. It is a:
- 4K Ultra HD HDMI Cable 25 Feet by MINC - HDMI 2.0 Ready - 26AWG CL3 - Supports 4K 60hz Deep Color 3D HDCP 2.2 and ARC with Ethernet - Gold Plated Connector


I've read the Monoprice Hoss can get a 25' HDR signal but have a RocketFish 24' cable on order. I will update if that works.
If that doesn't I will spring for the Ruipro but this is an in-wall installation and will be near an outer wall close to the elements of Cleveland's cold winters and hot summers. Fiber may not work long in that environment right?


----------



## darkhawk11

If the cable you have on order doesn't work I can vouch for the Monoprice I ordered. I'm fairly sure you could install them in wall but that may require more research.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21510


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## Joe Fernand

RuiPro operational range is 0c to +50c.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## btmille

Joe Fernand said:


> RuiPro operational range is 0c to +50c.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was 5 degrees F here last week and 20f today. -11 with wind chill all month of December. That's -23c. 
I don't think it would work in this cold of weather??


----------



## Joe Fernand

Plenty of Temp variations over here too (Scottish Borders) - loft spaces here have huge variations.

I guess it depends on the Temp within the spaces where the cables will live.

Joe


----------



## btmille

btmille said:


> I am also struggling to get a 25' cable run on my setup which is similar. I have:
> PS4 Pro
> Yamaha TSR-7810 set in MODE 1
> Optoma UHD 60
> 
> I can get a signal in the PS4 set up menu under 2160P YUV 420 with my current cable. When I switch to the 2160P RGB color setting, the picture drops and comes back. So, I ordered 4 different cables on Amazon and all failed. Here are my results:
> 
> - Farstrider HDMI Cable 25ft | Ultra HD HDMI 2.0b(4K @ 60Hz) | High Speed with Ethernet channel | UHD [email protected] | 3D / HDR / ARC / CEC / HDCP | High bandwidth 18 Gbit/s | Pearl Nickel
> 
> - Mediabridge HDMI Cable (25 Feet) Supports [email protected], High Speed, Hand-Tested, HDMI 2.0 Ready, 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel
> 
> - BlueRigger In-Wall High Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet (7.5 M) - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, Ultra HD, 3D, 1080p, Ethernet and Audio Return (Latest Standard)
> 
> Ultra Clarity Cables
> HDMI Cable - 25 FT. 4K Resolution (7.6m) High Speed HDMI Cable (2.0b) Supports Ethernet, Ultra HD, HDR Video, Bandwidth 18Gbps, Audio Return Channel, 25ft (Latest Standard) HDCP 2.2 Compliant 25 Feet
> 
> All of those failed to get 2160P RGB. I can get the signal if I put the PS4 Pro direct to the projector. I can't move the Yamaha so I just assume that it is not the receiver.....hopefully. I do have it set in MODE 1 also. It has to be the cable despite using 5 different cables. The cable I am using currently says in the fine print that it doesn't support • 4K 60HZ 4:4:4 (Not Supported)
> • 4K HDR 60HZ (Not Supported)
> However, it works great on everything else. It is a:
> - 4K Ultra HD HDMI Cable 25 Feet by MINC - HDMI 2.0 Ready - 26AWG CL3 - Supports 4K 60hz Deep Color 3D HDCP 2.2 and ARC with Ethernet - Gold Plated Connector
> 
> 
> I've read the Monoprice Hoss can get a 25' HDR signal but have a RocketFish 24' cable on order. I will update if that works.
> If that doesn't I will spring for the Ruipro but this is an in-wall installation and will be near an outer wall close to the elements of Cleveland's cold winters and hot summers. Fiber may not work long in that environment right?


I wanted to give a quick update. The Monoprice cable DID carry the 2160p 4k full RGB signal 60hz!!! Yay!! 
Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft White
I previously tried 5 different cables and finally found this one to work thanks to this site! Now the arduous task of running in the wall. Thank you everyone who responded.


----------



## AVS Commenter

These work great for 4k HDR. A little expensive, but THX certified 

https://www.pixelgendesign.com/products/cables


----------



## bigcat

btmille said:


> I wanted to give a quick update. The Monoprice cable DID carry the 2160p 4k full RGB signal 60hz!!! Yay!!
> Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft White
> I previously tried 5 different cables and finally found this one to work thanks to this site! Now the arduous task of running in the wall. Thank you everyone who responded.


do you have a link to this cable please?


----------



## btmille

bigcat said:


> do you have a link to this cable please?


Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft White

https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-...remium+High+Speed+HDMI+Cable,+HDR,+25ft+White

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


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## benz5521

I ordered these. Tons of good reviews but haven?t seen anything on AVS forum about them. Anybody know anything about these? I need cables for Friday. Should I order some monoprice ones instead?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Y...0_QL65&keywords=securomax+hdmi+cable+4k&psc=1


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## btmille

benz5521 said:


> I ordered these. Tons of good reviews but haven?t seen anything on AVS forum about them. Anybody know anything about these? I need cables for Friday. Should I order some monoprice ones instead?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Y...0_QL65&keywords=securomax+hdmi+cable+4k&psc=1


Trial and error my friend....trial and error. Monoprice Certified Premium or BJC series-1 cables imo


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## Otto Pylot

benz5521 said:


> I ordered these. Tons of good reviews but haven?t seen anything on AVS forum about them. Anybody know anything about these? I need cables for Friday. Should I order some monoprice ones instead?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00Y...0_QL65&keywords=securomax+hdmi+cable+4k&psc=1


As mentioned above, it's all trial and error. The cable is only the data pipe. It can not make audio and video any better than the source. No one will give you a 100% guarantee, regardless of what the marketing hype says. All you can do is try, and keep your receipts handy.


----------



## Glenee

I am having some luck with these up to 20 ft. https://www.vanco1.com/product/certified-premium-high-speed-hdmi-cables-with-ethernet/


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## CaptnSpaulding

Hi guys, I've read a couple of posts on this thread after it was linked in the KS8000 section because I've always had an issue with my PS4 Pro since I've had my Samsung KS7000 (KS8000 US) where very randomly the TV will flash a completely black blank screen and it's very random how frequent this happens but essentially once it's done it once, you can guarantee it'll continue until you turn the TV off and on again via hard reboot (holding down the power button).

Originally I was using the cable supplied with the PS4 Pro which was recommended. After some suggestions online I bought a 'Certified' HDMI cable from Amazon - I was told to get one which had the 'certified' label/sticker. Unfortunately this did not work either as the 'flickering/black screens' still occur. This is the cable I bought - https://www.amazon.co.uk/OMARS-Prem...=1517481906&sr=8-2&keywords=certified+hdmi+4k

Now I've worked out if I have the PS4 Pro on the YUV420 setting it seems to be fine, but if I put it on RGB or Automatic, this is when it starts happening - again it's random and sometimes I can go days or week without it happening and then all of a sudden it'll do it! Occassionally turning the TV off and on doesn't fix it so I have to do it a few times or turn the PS4 off completely. I've noticed sometimes it occurs more often if I woke the PS4 from Sleep Mode than if I turned it off from 'complete power off mode'.

After the last cable I bought didn't make a difference I thought it was just an issue with the TV and that I had to live with it until they released a firmware issue - if they ever did.

However on reading this thread, it seems that even some 'certified' cables don't carry enough bandwidth. Do you reckon this could be the issue I'm having and that I simply just need to get a better HDMI cable?

I've had a look at those Monoprice cables some recommended but they appear to be in the US and I'm in the UK. Any other recommendations? I need a 2m cable at most as my TV is wall mounted above the console.

Oh and I'll just add - I have no idea about what fps or the chroma thing I'm trying to use. I don't understand all that sorry. All I know is I'm trying to use the PS4 Pro in 4K mode using HDR - however the issue still happens on NON HDR games also.

Thanks guys


----------



## Q-the-STORM

CaptnSpaulding said:


> Now I've worked out if I have the PS4 Pro on the YUV420 setting it seems to be fine, but if I put it on RGB or Automatic, this is when it starts happening.


Looks like your cable can't always handle the bandwidth.




CaptnSpaulding said:


> I've had a look at those Monoprice cables some recommended but they appear to be in the US and I'm in the UK. Any other recommendations? I need a 2m cable at most as my TV is wall mounted above the console.


I recommend cables from "KabelDirekt", it's a german company but they sell everywhere.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004BEMD5Q/

They also have a PRO series which is a bit more expensive, but it mostly just looks a bit more fancy and is maybe a bit sturdier.

I own maybe 6-7 of the TOP series cables, various lengths, every one of them can handle 2160p60 4:4:4 RGB, though some people had to buy and return 1-2 cables until they got one that worked, but that's usually for long cables. If you only need 2-3m you shouldn't have any issues.

I'm actually running a 12.5m cable at 2160p60 4:4:4 RGB, first cable I bought worked, though I suppose I was pretty lucky, most people have issues at that length (been using the cable for 2 years now, so I assume their success rate only improved)


----------



## CaptnSpaulding

Q-the-STORM said:


> Looks like your cable can't always handle the bandwidth.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend cables from "KabelDirekt", it's a german company but they sell everywhere.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004BEMD5Q/
> 
> They also have a PRO series which is a bit more expensive, but it mostly just looks a bit more fancy and is maybe a bit sturdier.
> 
> I own maybe 6-7 of the TOP series cables, various lengths, every one of them can handle 2160p60 4:4:4 RGB, though some people had to buy and return 1-2 cables until they got one that worked, but that's usually for long cables. If you only need 2-3m you shouldn't have any issues.
> 
> I'm actually running a 12.5m cable at 2160p60 4:4:4 RGB, first cable I bought worked, though I suppose I was pretty lucky, most people have issues at that length (been using the cable for 2 years now, so I assume their success rate only improved)


Thanks for the reply, I had a KabelDirekt cable before but was before 4K etc and seemed good.

I’ve just come across this one however which has had good reviews and says it does 4:4:4. It’s 50p less than KabelDirect but looks nicer (haha). Worth trying? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...=H8DCKYP51GXMBVAA6MY0&dpPl=1&dpID=91MUNP8KyDL


----------



## Otto Pylot

CaptnSpaulding said:


> Thanks for the reply, I had a KabelDirekt cable before but was before 4K etc and seemed good.
> 
> I’ve just come across this one however which has had good reviews and says it does 4:4:4. It’s 50p less than KabelDirect but looks nicer (haha). Worth trying?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...=H8DCKYP51GXMBVAA6MY0&dpPl=1&dpID=91MUNP8KyDL


At 1M (3') just about any well made High Speed HDMI cable will work. The specs given are just HDMI 2.0b hardware specs. No mention on whether the cables are certified to meet the HDMI 2.0b hardware specs.


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## Q-the-STORM

You can definitely try, but personally at that small price difference I'd trust a cable that has ~1700 reviews more than a cable that has ~300 reviews.

But honestly at this distance, almost all (newer model) cables should work.


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## CaptnSpaulding

Ended up not buying - started reading the reviews of both, starting from negative and it seems both cables perform the same as my current one, causing the PS4 Pro to 'flicker' off and on randomly. I guess until 2.1 is released I just have to live with it!?


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## Otto Pylot

CaptnSpaulding said:


> Ended up not buying - started reading the reviews of both, starting from negative and it seems both cables perform the same as my current one, causing the PS4 Pro to 'flicker' off and on randomly. I guess until 2.1 is released I just have to live with it!?


Do remember that HDMI 2.1 is a hardware specification, not a cable specification. 48Gbps is going to be tough for any current cable (just look at the issues with 18Gbps now), especially at a distance longer than the originally proposed 3M (6') maximum cable length. Fiber or hybrid fiber will probably be the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" that is mentioned in the initial specs. Hopefully that will change by the time HDMI 2.1 chipsets are commercially available in devices. However, to appreciate all that HDMI 2.1 can offer all of your HDMI connected devices will have to be upgraded to the current chipsets, which may mean new hardware (equipment).


----------



## Q-the-STORM

CaptnSpaulding said:


> Ended up not buying - started reading the reviews of both, starting from negative and it seems both cables perform the same as my current one, causing the PS4 Pro to 'flicker' off and on randomly. I guess until 2.1 is released I just have to live with it!?


Every cable is different. The different brands just have a different percentage of cables that work, KabelDirekt has a higher percentage than other cables, but there's always gonna be some that can't handle 18gbps. Most of the people that have posted bad reviews could have fixed their problem by just returning the cable and buying the same one again.


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## Otto Pylot

Q-the-STORM said:


> Every cable is different. The different brands just have a different percentage of cables that work, KabelDirekt has a higher percentage than other cables, but there's always gonna be some that can't handle 18gbps. Most of the people that have posted bad reviews could have fixed their problem by just returning the cable and buying the same one again.


...and that is exactly the problem. Cable descriptions and "specs" are for the most part marketing. Everyone's setup, devices, etc are different so all one can do is try. If the cable doesn't work, try again. Don't be fooled by fancy claims and high prices. However, the claim that _"Most of the people that have posted bad reviews could have fixed their problem by just returning the cable and buying the same one again"_ is not quite accurate.


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## mtbdudex

Sharing my findings here.
I built my dedicated basement HT in 2008, back then I needed a 30 foot HDMI inwall cable, well I bought the best and thickest from Parts Express then, over $140 for a 10m cable.

Zero issues with my 2008 Sony VW60 pj and Denon 4308CI nor 4520CI.

Fast forward to April-2017, I upgrade to the JVC RS400 but still the 4520CI AVR. The old 2008 HDMI cable was fine because I can’t pass 4k/60 4:4:4 thru that older 4520 chipsets.

Now I just upgraded to the Denon flagship X8500H, expecting to need 18Gbps bandwidth I buy a new cable, one that’s been tested and vetted meeting 4k60 4:4:4 ..... at 50 foot length as re-routing longer than before to get inwall.









Well to my pleasant surprise that 2008 HDMI from parts express works fine 4k/60 10 bits 4:4:4









I had some other issues and suspected the HDMI might be a part of that, so temp wired the brand new Luxe up and nope, it’s same performance
The 2008 parts express cable is the black one that curves up to the ceiling , the new Lux the grey-ish one.
Both those are very thick and gentle bends, no sharp turns.









And temp routing



Spoiler























Now I have a good working 50 ft long 18Gbps hdmi cable... but don’t really need it.
With HDMI 2.1 around the corner and tested / vetted cables I’d guess Spring 2019 I’ll hold off any HDMI cable upgrades till then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ congratulations on your cable run. It's nice to see something positive for a change at those longer lengths. HDMI 2.1 will be an entirely different animal though. Especially if the max 3M length has not been worked out by the cable mfrs. I'm assuming that your in-wall run is with conduit. A thicker gauge wire with gentle bends and support for the input is critical for those long runs.


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## mtbdudex

I was just sent today the hdmi diagnostic manual for my 8500H, I’ll use that as a tool this weekend to weed thru the many smaller length (12 feet and below) HDMI cables I’ve acquired over the years. Clean up time!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dminches

I am planning on purchasing a Sony VPL-VW675ES projector. Is there any reason for me not to get one of the 2 HDMI cables (RUIPro and Monoprice) that won Arrow AV’s bake off? Should I be considering anything else?

I need close to a 40’ run.


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## Otto Pylot

dminches said:


> I am planning on purchasing a Sony VPL-VW675ES projector. Is there any reason for me not to get one of the 2 HDMI cables (RUIPro and Monoprice) that won Arrow AV’s bake off? Should I be considering anything else?
> 
> I need close to a 40’ run.


There are no guarantees. The AV Arrow is a nice place to start but is not the "end-all" for purchasing a cable. 40' is tough if you are trying to push 4k HDR, so all you can do is try and see if it works for you. Keep your receipts and pay attention to the return policy. A successful run also depends on how the cable is laid (bend radius), the HDMI chipset version between source and sink, etc. At 40' hopefully your cable run is in a conduit if installed in-wall.


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## Joe Fernand

We have over 400pcs of the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables now installed across the UK/EU - someone must have a Sony projector on the end of one of them 

Ideally whichever cable you choose you would try and test it with your kit before you commit to 'installing' the cable - run the cable for 2-3 hours to ensure no issues.

Joe


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## dminches

I should have phrased my question better since I realize there are no guarantees. It seems like the first cables I should start with are the ones that Arrow AV found to test the best.


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## Otto Pylot

dminches said:


> I should have phrased my question better since I realize there are no guarantees. It seems like the first cables I should start with are the ones that Arrow AV found to test the best.


That would be a good game plan. Do let us know how it works out.


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## r2schulte

*New Here but think this is correct thread to post this question*

Hello All - great info on this forum. Thanks for everyones contributions. I am prewiring new home (large 6500 sq ft) the head end equipment closet we want to use is on one side of the house. two of the main TV areas are of course on opposite side of house Anyway, we are going to have a 100 ft HDMI run and an 85ft run. 

My question is does anyone have experience with these cables:

please google this - Kramer cable CP-AOCH/60 

(Sorry since i only have 2 posts lifetime it says i can NOT post a link). 

Seems to checkmark all the boxes - [email protected] hz 4:4:4 and 18 gbps. HDR

Anyway, before putting down serious coin on two cables wanted to make sure they are going to work. Cheers! and Thank you!


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## Joe Fernand

Long cable runs - are you able to ensure you can easily replace any cable which ends up damaged, fails or obsolete?

CAT6 - I would run alongside any HDMI cable as a back up.

Conduit - if there is any chance the cables could be damaged by future workers it is best to give them some protection within a conduit.

HDMI cables - have a look at the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables, we have found them to be much more reliable/system friendly vs. the all Fibre solutions.

Joe


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## mtbdudex

Joe Fernand said:


> Long cable runs - are you able to ensure you can easily replace any cable which ends up damaged, fails or obsolete?
> 
> CAT6 - I would run alongside any HDMI cable as a back up.
> 
> Conduit - if there is any chance the cables could be damaged by future workers it is best to give them some protection within a conduit.
> 
> HDMI cables - have a look at the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables, we have found them to be much more reliable/system friendly vs. the all Fibre solutions.
> 
> Joe


Joes spot on here, added cat6
Further you realize HDMI 2.1 “certified” cables realistically will be available Dec-2018 or Jan-2019?
That’s a whole new ballgame / huge bandwidth 48Gbps.
Therefore conduit mandatory.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## r2schulte

Joe Fernand said:


> Long cable runs - are you able to ensure you can easily replace any cable which ends up damaged, fails or obsolete?
> 
> CAT6 - I would run alongside any HDMI cable as a back up.
> 
> Conduit - if there is any chance the cables could be damaged by future workers it is best to give them some protection within a conduit.
> 
> HDMI cables - have a look at the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables, we have found them to be much more reliable/system friendly vs. the all Fibre solutions.
> 
> Joe


Thank you for quick reply Joe! Cheers! YES-ROGER THAT - in my plan is to run 2 CAT 6A cables to each TV, smerf tube conduit to each TV location as well as HDMI. We have 6 TV's planned in total (4 of which are under 50 foot runs and 3 of those are non 4k TV's anyway so no worries on a monoprice HDMI cable. Anyway, i will check out the RuiPro cables - THANKS FOR THE TIP!


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## r2schulte

mtbdudex said:


> Joes spot on here, added cat6
> Further you realize HDMI 2.1 cables realistically will be available Dec-2018 or Jan-2019?
> That’s a whole new ballgame / huge bandwidth 48Gbps.
> Therefore conduit mandatory.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you MTBDUDEX! good stuff and appreciate the protips. Yes, i am aware of the 2.1 standard released Nov 2017 and yes definetly running ample conduit to each tv location as to my control 4 monitors. Anyway, house will be complete in Aug 2018 hopefully and was hoping to enjoy max 2.0b hdmi 60hz 4k 4:4:4 18.2 gbps out of the gate. Will definetly pull through some 2.1 when available. Was hoping to pull the 2.0b for now and not occupy conduit space. My issue is finding something that covers long runs with all those specs. Cheers brother!


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## Otto Pylot

r2schulte said:


> Thank you MTBDUDEX! good stuff and appreciate the protips. Yes, i am aware of the 2.1 standard released Nov 2017 and yes definetly running ample conduit to each tv location as to my control 4 monitors. Anyway, house will be complete in Aug 2018 hopefully and was hoping to enjoy max 2.0b hdmi 60hz 4k 4:4:4 18.2 gbps out of the gate. Will definetly pull through some 2.1 when available. Was hoping to pull the 2.0b for now and not occupy conduit space. My issue is finding something that covers long runs with all those specs. Cheers brother!


Just a little clarification, there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". What will be available, eventually, are High Speed HDMI cables that "meet HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications". Your idea of running conduit is spot on because that is the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling. HDMI 2.1 will probably not be available in consumer devices until late this year/early next year (probably later). However, to fully appreciate what HDMI 2.1 can bring, all of your HDMI connected devices will have to have the most current HDMI chipsets. The cable is just the data pipe.

With conduit, you can easily upgrade your cabling as video standards change. Most folks will find that fiber or a hybrid fiber cable will work best for long runs. Install a pull string in your conduit because you will need it later on. Personally, I would never install an "HDMI cable" in-wall. I would either use a solid core HDMI cable (non-CCS and not an ethernet patch cable) or fiber.

As a side note, the last HDMI cable requirement that I read was the maximum length for 48GBps was 3M. Hopefully that will change once HDMI 2.1 is commercially available.


----------



## mtbdudex

^^ agree it’s a certification thing to meet HDMI 2.1, I edited my post by adding “certified” in it for clarity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ the problem I have with ANY cable mfr is how loose they are with the terms "certified", "meets all HDMI 2.x specifications", etc to imply that the cable and length has been tested by some sort of standardized protocols. Without any sort of recognized certificate of compliance, the cable mfrs can say just about anything. Just look at the claims for HDMI 2.0b and HDR, especially at lengths over about 20'. I haven't seen anything yet (since the announcement of the initial HDMI 2.1 hardware specs) that indicates the maximum 3M length for 48Gbps has been worked out. I certainly hope that the reliable cable length is resolved, and clearly explained, before HDMI 2.1 devices are released sometime next year. The cable is only the data pipe and can only carry what the source sends. It will be interesting to see what the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" actually is. My guess is some sort of fiber or hybrid fiber that is going to be really expensive. And yes, the mantra around here is CONDUIT CONDUIT CONDUIT, with extra solid core CAT-6/7 cable, maybe a coax or two, and a pull-string.


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## Joe Fernand

_'3 of those are non 4k TV's anyway'_ - keep in mind if your Source and Main Display are 4K UHD capable and you then try and Distribute (split) that Source to non-4K TV's the signal has to be down-converted to suit the least capable TV!


It may make your life much simpler if you plan to adopt the same Video (and audio) capabilities in all Zones!


A Soundbar with HDMI In/Out plus the same audio 'capabilities' as your Main Zone plus a 4K TV would be in my plans for the secondary Zones if you are going to be sharing/mirroring Sources.


Joe


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## r2schulte

Good stuff Joe! Thanks!

I should be covered on that angle as i am going to home run seperate hdmi runs from each tv to its own directv box in a central rack location. Will be running a control 4 system.
but duly noted regardless and may end up putting 4k tvs in all spots anyway

Cheers!


Joe Fernand said:


> _'3 of those are non 4k TV's anyway'_ - keep in mind if your Source and Main Display are 4K UHD capable and you then try and Distribute (split) that Source to non-4K TV's the signal has to be down-converted to suit the least capable TV!
> 
> 
> It may make your life much simpler if you plan to adopt the same Video (and audio) capabilities in all Zones!
> 
> 
> A Soundbar with HDMI In/Out plus the same audio 'capabilities' as your Main Zone plus a 4K TV would be in my plans for the secondary Zones if you are going to be sharing/mirroring Sources.
> 
> 
> Joe


----------



## btmille

I can confidently say that the 50' active Insignia cables at BestBuy won't do a 4k 60fps 10bit color. It cuts in and out at 24fps. Tried two of them. :/


----------



## Otto Pylot

btmille said:


> I can confidently say that the 50' active Insignia cables at BestBuy won't do a 4k 60fps 10bit color. It cuts in and out at 24fps. Tried two of them. :/


50' is long for any cable, passive or active for 4k HDR. Your best bet would be to try a fiber of hybrid fiber, installed in a conduit (the ONLY way to "future proof").


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## btmille

Otto Pylot said:


> 50' is long for any cable, passive or active for 4k HDR. Your best bet would be to try a fiber of hybrid fiber, installed in a conduit (the ONLY way to "future proof").


I ordered a DTECH and RUIPRO from Amazon. I only need the 10m but was in a pinch and decided to try the Best Buy cable.


----------



## btmille

Noah Moore said:


> Was there anyone buy these DTECH cable from Amazon? I saw their price is cheaper than RUIPRO and MONOPRICE
> 
> DTECH 50 ft Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 4K at 60Hz HDR 18Gbps High Speed Chroma Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0
> 
> DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 ft Support 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors
> 
> 
> 
> I intend to buy one, Any advice? I need a cable supports 4k HDR 60fps 4:4:4


I can at least confirm that the DTECH 10m Fiber Optic HDMI cable ordered on Amazon did work with 4K @60hz 10bit color. Works great so far!


----------



## 49Merc

*Monoprice/Amazon Basic*

Is there a Amazon Basic Slim Certified 4K HDMI equal to Monoprice Certifed 4K Ultra Slim HDMI? I’ve looked but cannot find any?


----------



## mtbdudex

Quick check, the title of this thread is 4k60 4:4:4 10bit color, that’s 22Gbps? 
Beyond hdmi 2.0a or am I missing something?
Deep color = 10 or 12 bit, not 8 bit, right?



T-Bone said:


> Well, when I troubleshoot, I change only one thing at a time.
> 
> For reference:
> 4K 60 4:4:4 (no HDR) = 17.82Gbps
> 
> 4K 30 4:4:4 10b-HDR (no 60fps) = 11.14Gbps
> 
> 4K 60 4:2:2 10b-HDR (no 4:4:4) = 17.82Gbps
> 
> 4K 60 4:4:4 10b-HDR = 22.28Gbps
> 
> If i had your issue, I would connect xb1x directly to the JVC using your long cable... Then configure the xb1x to always output 4k 60 10 bit. In the xb1x video setting, uncheck Allow 24p, and that forces 60p output. Set xb1x to 10 bit. Set xb1x to allow 4:2:2 chroma in the video settings.
> 
> Now, pop in any BD... Or a few. Pop in a UHD... The UHD should get you a signal close to 18 gbps if it has HDR.
> 
> If all works, then you know you have a good chain without the AVR... And a good long cable.
> 
> Next, move xb1x close to JVC. Connect xb1x directly to JVC with your short cable. Rerun tests.
> 
> If errors, bad short cable. No errors mean you verified both cables to be good.
> 
> Next step: add the AVR to the chain, using verified cables. repeat tests I listed above.
> 
> If you get an error, it's the AVR.
> 
> Report back and let us know what you found. I know it's a pain in the butt to move your electronics. But in this case you absolutely have to. I did the same thing with my Xbox One S when I needed to test my system to make sure everything was fine.
> 
> -T







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## T-Bone

mtbdudex said:


> Quick check, the title of this thread is 4k60 4:4:4 10bit color, that?s 22Gbps?
> Beyond hdmi 2.0a or am I missing something?
> Deep color = 10 or 12 bit, not 8 bit, right?
> 
> 
> 
> T-Bone said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, when I troubleshoot, I change only one thing at a time.
> 
> For reference:
> 4K 60 4:4:4 (no HDR) = 17.82Gbps
> 
> 4K 30 4:4:4 10b-HDR (no 60fps) = 11.14Gbps
> 
> 4K 60 4:2:2 10b-HDR (no 4:4:4) = 17.82Gbps
> 
> 4K 60 4:4:4 10b-HDR = 22.28Gbps
> 
> If i had your issue, I would connect xb1x directly to the JVC using your long cable... Then configure the xb1x to always output 4k 60 10 bit. In the xb1x video setting, uncheck Allow 24p, and that forces 60p output. Set xb1x to 10 bit. Set xb1x to allow 4:2:2 chroma in the video settings.
> 
> Now, pop in any BD... Or a few. Pop in a UHD... The UHD should get you a signal close to 18 gbps if it has HDR.
> 
> If all works, then you know you have a good chain without the AVR... And a good long cable.
> 
> Next, move xb1x close to JVC. Connect xb1x directly to JVC with your short cable. Rerun tests.
> 
> If errors, bad short cable. No errors mean you verified both cables to be good.
> 
> Next step: add the AVR to the chain, using verified cables. repeat tests I listed above.
> 
> If you get an error, it's the AVR.
> 
> Report back and let us know what you found. I know it's a pain in the butt to move your electronics. But in this case you absolutely have to. I did the same thing with my Xbox One S when I needed to test my system to make sure everything was fine.
> 
> -T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I added the 22 gbps since the spec dies not support it. Some people might think it is supported. So I I was trying to be clear and state that it is not. In case he was thinking if trying that signal.

-T


----------



## dminches

Yesterday I had my new Sony 4K projector installed but my new HDMI cable hasn’t arrived yet. So, the installer figured he might as well just test my current cable to see if it pass 4K HDR. Well, it does. The cable is from monoprice “Select Active Series High Speed HDMI Cable - 4K @ 24Hz, 10.2Gbps, 28AWG”. I can’t say if it will pass the highest resolution out there but it really doesn’t need to since I will also have a run of RUIPRO cable along side it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dminches said:


> Yesterday I had my new Sony 4K projector installed but my new HDMI cable hasn’t arrived yet. So, the installer figured he might as well just test my current cable to see if it pass 4K HDR. Well, it does. The cable is from monoprice “Select Active Series High Speed HDMI Cable - 4K @ 24Hz, 10.2Gbps, 28AWG”. I can’t say if it will pass the highest resolution out there but it really doesn’t need to since I will also have a run of RUIPRO cable along side it.


10.2Gbps is the "gray area" between HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. It's not a certified cable but if it works then that's all that matters.


----------



## mtbdudex

T-Bone said:


> I added the 22 gbps since the spec dies not support it. Some people might think it is supported. So I I was trying to be clear and state that it is not. In case he was thinking if trying that signal.
> 
> -T




T;
I see these from smpte site, 
 https://www.smpte.org/sites/defaul...presentation June 2017 - Session #1 - UHD.pdf
where’s your data from I’d like to research that site.

From here, with 18Gbps as hdmi 2.0b max data rate it’s meaningless to talk 4k60 4:4:4, as that’s 20Gbps at 10 or 12 bit (deep color).





































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## T-Bone

mtbdudex said:


> T-Bone said:
> 
> 
> 
> I added the 22 gbps since the spec dies not support it. Some people might think it is supported. So I I was trying to be clear and state that it is not. In case he was thinking if trying that signal.
> 
> -T
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T;
> I see these from smpte site,
> https://www.smpte.org/sites/defaul...presentation June 2017 - Session #1 - UHD.pdf
> where?s your data from I?d like to research that site.
> 
> From here, with 18Gbps as hdmi 2.0b max data rate it?s meaningless to talk 4k60 4:4:4, as that?s 20Gbps at 10 or 12 bit (deep color).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Got mine from a Cedia site.

http://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2017/06/22/4k-60-444-hdr

-T


----------



## Synomenon

CraigAmey said:


> It sounds like you're trying to run RGB 444 as the Luxe cable should be capable of 4K60 HDR with YUV 420 which is what most movies are formatted in. Check the settings on the Oppo to make sure you're not trying to output RGB 444 (as it's unnecessary here). If that is what you want to do there are a couple of things you need to know.
> 
> 1. 4K60 HDR is only possible with YUV 420 as RGB 444 10 bit exceeds the HDMI spec. 4K60 HDR (10 bit) YUV 420 required about 12Gb/s and most cables can do that. I use 35ft Cabernet Active cables and they handle it fine.
> 
> 2. The Ultra Slim Active will not pass 4K60 RGB 444 (17.8Gb/s) even at 6ft, nor will the passive Ultra Slim (I've tried). The only Monoprice cables that will do that are the Certified Premium cables and they'll handle it up to 20ft.
> 
> 3. At 35ft your only option for 4K60 RGB 444 is the Belden BJC Series-1 but that cable is thick enough it's going to create a lump under your carpet
> 
> I have a working setup that passes 4K60 RGB 444 through the wall via a 25 ft BJC Series-1 to a RiteAV double sided HDMI wallplate and then to a 5ft Monster Black Platinum. For the short run a Monoprice CP 6ft and Rocketfish 4ft also worked (many tried and failed).


Too late for me. Ordered six of the Ultra Slim Actives. None of them work with my PS4 Pro. or Oppo set at YUV422. If I lower them to YUV420 they works, but I don't want to run them at the lower setting. Are there any thin / very flexible cables that can do 4k60 RGB 422 or higher?


----------



## btmille

Synomenon said:


> Too late for me. Ordered six of the Ultra Slim Actives. None of them work with my PS4 Pro. or Oppo set at YUV422. If I lower them to YUV420 they works, but I don't want to run them at the lower setting. Are there any thin / very flexible cables that can do 4k60 RGB 422 or higher?


You will have to use the fiber optic cables. I just posted above that the DTECH fiber at 33ft works and passes 4k60 RGB 422


----------



## Otto Pylot

As has been stated many times before, regardless of what the cable mfr claims, most will have issues pushing 4k HDR down a copper cable at lengths longer than about 20'. That may work for some but most will have issues and outright failures. There are other factors involved besides the cable and 4k HDR is so unforgiving. It's best to just bite the bullet and jump to fiber or hybrid fiber because your chances of being successful are much better. Just run your cable in a conduit and be mindful of the bend radius.


----------



## r2schulte

Otto Pylot said:


> As has been stated many times before, regardless of what the cable mfr claims, most will have issues pushing 4k HDR down a copper cable at lengths longer than about 20'. That may work for some but most will have issues and outright failures. There are other factors involved besides the cable and 4k HDR is so unforgiving. It's best to just bite the bullet and jump to fiber or hybrid fiber because your chances of being successful are much better. Just run your cable in a conduit and be mindful of the bend radius.



Thanks for the info Otto Pylot! I am finally buying the RUIPRO cables recommended today. When you say "Be mindful of the bend radius" what does that mean for the non mathmatician in the room? In other words, i would have 3 - approx 90 degree bends to make my 100 foot run from master bedroom tv up to attic, all the way accross and then bend to go to basement where head end equipment is? Thanks for any help on figuring out bend radius in pratical terms! Cheers! Ray


----------



## Otto Pylot

r2schulte said:


> Thanks for the info Otto Pylot! I am finally buying the RUIPRO cables recommended today. When you say "Be mindful of the bend radius" what does that mean for the non mathmatician in the room? In other words, i would have 3 - approx 90 degree bends to make my 100 foot run from master bedroom tv up to attic, all the way accross and then bend to go to basement where head end equipment is? Thanks for any help on figuring out bend radius in pratical terms! Cheers! Ray


90 degrees is pretty sharp for any cable. Fiber cables are pretty flexible but they can still be damaged with a sharp bend radius. As far as the calculations go I can't help you there so hopefully someone else will provide the answer. If you run in your cable in a conduit, it's a bit easier to control the bend radius but you need to give yourself some extra cable to achieve a gentler bend.


----------



## Joe Fernand

See pic.

Joe


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## Otto Pylot

Joe Fernand said:


> See pic.
> 
> Joe


I knew you'd come thru  Thanks.


----------



## r2schulte

Joe Fernand said:


> See pic.
> 
> Joe


You the man! Thank you sir! So the smaller the bend radius (i.e. 10mm) the sharper angle the cable can take, the bigger number bend radius (80mm) needs you to give it plenty of room to gently curve. Perfect! Cheers! Ray


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## sid369

I have a 4k projector that is about 18 feet from the screen and I am going to be using a soundbar i know (4k passthrough) I need a longer HDMI cable. I will be connecting my sources atv 4k, ps4 pro and xb1x to the soundbar. what cable would you guys recommend, I deally I would like to run it up the up through the ceiling and then down the back wall back to the projector. I think for this run, i would need 35 feet.

With my current cable I am seeing issues, like black screen and no way to choose chroma 4.4.4 on the atv4k.

What cable would you guys recommend.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sid369 said:


> I have a 4k projector that is about 18 feet from the screen and I am going to be using a soundbar i know (4k passthrough) I need a longer HDMI cable. I will be connecting my sources atv 4k, ps4 pro and xb1x to the soundbar. what cable would you guys recommend, I deally I would like to run it up the up through the ceiling and then down the back wall back to the projector. I think for this run, i would need 35 feet.
> 
> With my current cable I am seeing issues, like black screen and no way to choose chroma 4.4.4 on the atv4k.
> 
> What cable would you guys recommend.


For in-wall installation, use a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit because you will be needing to upgrade your cabling at some time down the road (probably sooner than later). That is the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling. Most people are having the best luck with Ruipro fiber cables (fiber or hybrid fiber). Just lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before installation.


----------



## grodd

Has anyone here tested some of the newer HDMI 2.1 cables out there like Echogear or Belkin HDMI 2.1 cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

grodd said:


> Has anyone here tested some of the newer HDMI 2.1 cables out there like Echogear or Belkin HDMI 2.1 cables.



There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable, period. 

HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to drop the hardware specification number and just use High Speed HDMI cable or Standard HDMI cable. Most of us don't bother with a standard cable and just go with a High Speed cable (either active or passive). Read the cable description carefully and pay attention to how it is worded. It probably says "meets HDMI 2.1 specifications", "works with HDMI 2.1", "compatible with HDMI 2.1" etc. The HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications were finally ratified around November and the specs were sent off to the chipset mfrs. The chipsets are now in the compliance testing phase and whether they will be certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center, which is approve by HDMI.org) remains to be seen. Besides, an "HDMI 2.1 cable" won't do you any good unless your connected devices have the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets and can reliably deliver 48Gbps.


----------



## grodd

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable, period.
> 
> HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to drop the hardware specification number and just use High Speed HDMI cable or Standard HDMI cable. Most of us don't bother with a standard cable and just go with a High Speed cable (either active or passive). Read the cable description carefully and pay attention to how it is worded. It probably says "meets HDMI 2.1 specifications", "works with HDMI 2.1", "compatible with HDMI 2.1" etc. The HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications were finally ratified around November and the specs were sent off to the chipset mfrs. The chipsets are now in the compliance testing phase and whether they will be certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center, which is approve by HDMI.org) remains to be seen. Besides, an "HDMI 2.1 cable" won't do you any good unless your connected devices have the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets and can reliably deliver 48Gbps.


So far these are the only 2 that actually claim HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. The Echogear only came out this year. The Belkin was the first 2.1 that came out late last year. I was hoping there was some testing. 

Here is what they say. 
https://www.echogear.com/av-cables/8ft-braided-hdmi-4k-cable/
Supporting refresh rates up to 120fps with a bandwidth of 48Gbps, this cable supports 4k & HDR but is also backward compatible with standard HD. Supports HDCP2.2 when using HDCP2.2 video source.

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HLL52ZM/A/belkin-ultra-high-speed-4k-hdmi-cable-2m

Dolby Vision™ compatible
Supports up to 4096-by-2160 resolution
Bandwidth up to 48 Gbps


Don't worry I've read this as well
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/
Q: When will the HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification be available? 
A: The HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) will be published in stages starting in Q2 2018.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Any ‘claim’ of being HDMI Version compliant is ‘tosh’.

No cable has been Certified as ‘Ultra High Speed’ as yet.

At best the cables you link to are High Speed Certified (assuming they are Certified!).

Joe


----------



## grodd

I think most of us understand the HDMI certification hasn't been finalized. 
However according to both dealers their cables support a speed of 48Gbps. (8K)

A test would be interesting, to see if they are in fact running these speeds, yes?


----------



## Otto Pylot

grodd said:


> So far these are the only 2 that actually claim HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. The Echogear only came out this year. The Belkin was the first 2.1 that came out late last year. I was hoping there was some testing.
> 
> Here is what they say.
> https://www.echogear.com/av-cables/8ft-braided-hdmi-4k-cable/
> Supporting refresh rates up to 120fps with a bandwidth of 48Gbps, this cable supports 4k & HDR but is also backward compatible with standard HD. Supports HDCP2.2 when using HDCP2.2 video source.
> 
> https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HLL52ZM/A/belkin-ultra-high-speed-4k-hdmi-cable-2m
> 
> Dolby Vision™ compatible
> Supports up to 4096-by-2160 resolution
> Bandwidth up to 48 Gbps
> 
> 
> Don't worry I've read this as well
> https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/
> Q: When will the HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification be available?
> A: The HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) will be published in stages starting in Q2 2018.


"bandwidth up to 48Gbps" means exactly what? 18Gbps? 20Gbs?, 30Gbps? At this point in time it's all marketing meant to get folks excited and go out and purchase their cables. Until the fully compliant HDMI 2.1 chipsets are in consumer devices and in the hands of the consumer will it be time to seriously look at those cables. There is still some controversy on the maximum length of 3M and can fully compliant HDMI 2.1 handle distances longer than that. Just look at the claims that cable mfrs have been making for 18Gbps over distances longer than about 20'. Way too early to be concerned about High Speed HDMI cables that can truly handle all that HDMI 2.1 promises.


----------



## grodd

There is no question the history of HDMI cables haven't always been great, not to mention the variance in quality of production among the same manufacturer.

Best...


----------



## Joe Fernand

As Otto says once we have some devices (not test pattern generators) supporting the HDMI 2.1 Feature Set you’ll be able to ‘test’ how well the cables work.

Joe


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## Otto Pylot

grodd said:


> There is no question the history of HDMI cables haven't always been great, not to mention the variance in quality of production among the same manufacturer.
> 
> Best...


Bottom line, at this point in time, nobody offers a PROVEN High Speed HDMI cable that is fully compliant with HDMI 2.1 hardware specs for consumer devices, regardless of the mfr's claims or market spin.


----------



## marchewd

I think I am going to pick up a Ruipro HDMI. I am debating if I should get the 15m or not. A 10m would get by just barely, but was wondering if the longer the cable, the more artifacts that could be presented or is there really no difference except length between the 10m and 15m Ruipro HDMI?


----------



## Joe Fernand

No difference in performance between the 10m and 15m.

Here in the UK/EU we have introduced a 12m cable - check with RuiPro if it will be available in the US.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marchewd

Joe Fernand said:


> No difference in performance between the 10m and 15m.
> 
> Here in the UK/EU we have introduced a 12m cable - check with RuiPro if it will be available in the US.
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Joe. I couldn't find the 12m cable. Do you recommend either the dtech or ruipro more? I really like the detachable head on the dtech since I have such limited space in the header hole due to network and speaker cables in there. Sealed of access to the garage wall where i drilled the hole thinking I was not going to have to replace my hmdi cable any time soon. Thanks son for breaking the HDMI cable when trying to hook up his switch without permission. Lol. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Joe Fernand

We tried a few of the ‘all Fibre’ solutions - most with the detachable head.

Overall we found them less system friendly, slow to handshake in some systems and a relatively high failure rate on the active Heads.

We have over 600 of the RuiPro Hybrid Fibres now installed in the UK/EU and very few issues with them.

You may have to contact RuiPro direct for info on the 12m in the US market.

Joe


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## marchewd

Thanks for the quick response. I appreciate it. Guess I'll have to hope there's enough room for the ruipro  I just decided to spend the extra $17 for the 15m. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## marchewd

DTECH Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 ft Support Ultra HD 4K 60Hz (4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Chroma Subsampling) 18Gbps High Speed, with Dual Micro HDMI and Standard HDMI Connectors https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072M73NY9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_.19XAbP740P78

Here is the dtech cable I mentioned. It looks like it's only an mini hdmi to HDMI adapter. Ever try this particular cable?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Joe Fernand

Much the same format as the other ‘all Fibre’ solutions - Passive Fibre terminated with mini-HDMI plus active Dongles at each end which require USB Power.

Joe 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mrjaffa

Hi all.

Been reading this thread for a bit.

I’m not very techy so was hoping for some help. Just upgraded my TV, Blu Ray player and receiver so they are all 4K. 

I run one cable from the receiver to the TV and I’m having issues because of how long it is. I need 10m at least.

Just bought a 10m QED Active HDMI to test that and that was no good.

Any suggestions? That one cost me £40 so i was hoping not to pay too much more than that.

Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At lengths longer than about 20', most folks have the best luck with a hybrid fiber cable. 4k HDR is not very forgiving with cable lengths longer than that, regardless of what the cable mfr claims.


----------



## Joe Fernand

QED’s ‘Performance’ Active HDMI is usually around £150 for a 10m Cable in the UK - it is not an 18Gbps Cable so limited with some 4K UHD formats.

As Otto says at 10m you are past the point of reliability with any copper cable and either moving equipment or considering Hybrid Fibre is your best option.

Your budget is an issue for a 10m cable.

Joe


----------



## mrjaffa

Joe Fernand said:


> QED’s ‘Performance’ Active HDMI is usually around £150 for a 10m Cable in the UK - it is not an 18Gbps Cable so limited with some 4K UHD formats.
> 
> As Otto says at 10m you are past the point of reliability with any copper cable and either moving equipment or considering Hybrid Fibre is your best option.
> 
> Your budget is an issue for a 10m cable.
> 
> Joe


Thanks Joe.

It was indeed advertised on their site as £139, but because I’d already spent quite a bit on my set up, he did it for £40 for me. 

I just tried linking a Ruipro czble from Amazon to check its the right one, but this site won’t let me link as I’m new.....

I may try a repeater first, found one on Amazon for only £15.

Considering I’m only using 10m and am getting some results at times, might be worth a try, certainly for the price?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Repeater - unlikely to work in conjunction with the Active cable and devices intended to ‘push’ 2160p out over a pre-installed Cooper cable tend to be nearer £200!

RuiPro - drop me a message if you need help with Sourcing a Cable in the UK.

Joe


----------



## mrjaffa

Joe Fernand said:


> Repeater - unlikely to work in conjunction with the Active cable and devices intended to ‘push’ 2160p out over a pre-installed Cooper cable tend to be nearer £200!
> 
> RuiPro - drop me a message if you need help with Sourcing a Cable in the UK.
> 
> Joe


Sent you a PM


----------



## mrjaffa

I received my HDMI repeater today from Amazon, was only £15 so thought I’d try it before I spent more on a cable. It did get some good reviews saying it did what was expected.

I’ve just tried connecting my cable direct from my V6 box to the repeater, then another cable direct to the TV. And hey presto, I was getting 2160p. Last time I tried this the pictured would flicker and clearly didn’t work.

I then tried V6 to Onkyo 676E (new and 4K ready apparently), then same long cable to repeater and then TV. And it didn’t work.

So what’s up with the amp? Any ideas anyone?

I remember checking settings the other day and all the HDMI ports were set to HDCP 2.2.

CHeers


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'So what’s up with the amp?'_ - possibly nothing! Possibly voltage starvation. Very difficult to know unless you have some very expensive diagnostic kit.

With HDMI it is the 'combination' of devices which usually causes the issues - rather than any one item.

Joe


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## mrjaffa

Joe Fernand said:


> _'So what’s up with the amp?'_ - possibly nothing! Possibly voltage starvation. Very difficult to know unless you have some very expensive diagnostic kit.
> 
> With HDMI it is the 'combination' of devices which usually causes the issues - rather than any one item.
> 
> Joe


Oh dear. That isn’t good. Wondering if there would have been a better amp?


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Wondering if there would have been a better amp?'_ - you can run into these issues with any AVR, as above it is the combination of devices which usually cause problems. Your V6 Box for example is 'broken' (when trying to use it with a non-UHD Display) and no sign of Virgin looking to fix it. 

Passing UHD over long cables is not easy.

Joe


----------



## mrjaffa

Joe Fernand said:


> _'Wondering if there would have been a better amp?'_ - you can run into these issues with any AVR, as above it is the combination of devices which usually cause problems. Your V6 Box for example is 'broken' (when trying to use it with a non-UHD Display) and no sign of Virgin looking to fix it.
> 
> Passing UHD over long cables is not easy.
> 
> Joe


I tried it again this evening with the repeater, and this time it worked. Showing 2160p and I flicked over to the Blu-ray player with no hassle too. So was sat watching the V6 for a few hours, and then, it started cutting out. Screen would go black, would sometimes come back on by itself or sometimes would have to turn the receiver on and off.

Very frustrating.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Very frustrating' _- welcome to the world of UHD over long cables, we went through the same pain in the early days of 1080p.

Joe


----------



## WildBoar

My current Supra HDMI cable (8Mt long) works flawlessly with 2160p and HDR signals to my 4K projector.

Unfortunately I'll move the projector in just a few weeks, Any recommendation for a passive cable 8.5Mt (or 27ft) long?


----------



## Bluto

I just ran these cables today: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14135

I ran two 50’ cables, replacing my 9 year old HDMI cables that would support up to 1080p.

I have no issues and am getting full 4K 60hz. I half expected that only fiber/hybrid would work but was pleasantly surprised by these.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bluto said:


> I just ran these cables today: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14135
> 
> I ran two 50’ cables, replacing my 9 year old HDMI cables that would support up to 1080p.
> 
> I have no issues and am getting full 4K 60hz. I half expected that only fiber/hybrid would work but was pleasantly surprised by these.


And that's the problem. Every now and then someone gets lucky with a cable that "shouldn't" work but does. Congratulations.


----------



## Bluto

Otto Pylot said:


> And that's the problem. Every now and then someone gets lucky with a cable that "shouldn't" work but does. Congratulations.


May I ask why they shouldn’t? Should I be concerned with longevity?

I understand passive fiber cables are highly recommended, but, I also was lead to believe the active spectre chipped cables should be sufficient.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bluto said:


> May I ask why they shouldn’t? Should I be concerned with longevity?
> 
> I understand passive fiber cables are highly recommended, but, I also was lead to believe the active spectre chipped cables should be sufficient.


50' active cables (not daisy-chained) for 1080p is not a problem and apparently in your case not for 4k either. When you start to push 4k HDR, copper-based cables have all kinds of issues starting at about 20'-25' for most folks. If you have the current HDMI chipsets in the sink end that's probably why they are working trouble-free, so far. The new chipsets I think are just starting to appear in the active HDMI cables. Once HDMI 2.1 is commercially available in devices hybrid fiber will probably be the only way to go. At 50' I trust you're running your cables in a conduit if in-wall installed.


----------



## Bluto

Yes and no. I have conduits in the walls but the cables are then strung below my floor joists above the drop ceiling in our basement.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bluto said:


> Yes and no. I have conduits in the walls but the cables are then strung below my floor joists above the drop ceiling in our basement.


That's fine. The cables below the floor joists are probably easy to get to. I used conduit on the inside walls and just carefully strung the cables in the attic space (single story home) without use of a conduit because access was easy.


----------



## madnosf

btmille said:


> Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, HDR, 25ft White
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-...remium+High+Speed+HDMI+Cable,+HDR,+25ft+White
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


Thanks a LOT for this. I have been ordering hdmi cables like crazy and returning them back. I have ordered the white monoprice one along with another backup cable (blue rigger) so let's see which one can win. Needed a 15ft cable that can go through ps4 pro to Onkyo to tv or worst case directly to TV so i can play my games with HDR.


----------



## mrjaffa

madnosf said:


> Thanks a LOT for this. I have been ordering hdmi cables like crazy and returning them back. I have ordered the white monoprice one along with another backup cable (blue rigger) so let's see which one can win. Needed a 15ft cable that can go through ps4 pro to Onkyo to tv or worst case directly to TV so i can play my games with HDR.




I’ve just ordered this. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monoprice-Certified-Premium-Speed-Cable-Black/dp/B06X3QDY4M

I measured up using a piece of string and found it to be 7.9m. Seems the longest you can get a certified cable is 7.5m (25ft). Hoping I can save those 40cm somewhere. 

I have been using a cheap HDMI extender with my current cable which is about 10-12m. And since using the extender, I was getting much better results. It’s still not 100%. Switching between sources can be the main problem. If this cable isn’t quite long enough, I’m hoping it will be fine with the extender where I will of course use a second short cable just at the very end to the TV.


----------



## madnosf

mrjaffa said:


> I’ve just ordered this.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Monoprice-Certified-Premium-Speed-Cable-Black/dp/B06X3QDY4M
> 
> I measured up using a piece of string and found it to be 7.9m. Seems the longest you can get a certified cable is 7.5m (25ft). Hoping I can save those 40cm somewhere.
> 
> I have been using a cheap HDMI extender with my current cable which is about 10-12m. And since using the extender, I was getting much better results. It’s still not 100%. Switching between sources can be the main problem. If this cable isn’t quite long enough, I’m hoping it will be fine with the extender where I will of course use a second short cable just at the very end to the TV.


Please let me know your results with the monoprice cable. I should be getting mine today.


----------



## mrjaffa

madnosf said:


> Please let me know your results with the monoprice cable. I should be getting mine today.




You’ll have to let me know first. Won’t get mine till next week


----------



## themcbrooms

madnosf said:


> Please let me know your results with the monoprice cable. I should be getting mine today.


I tried the 20ft version of this cable and the HDMI connectors were a bit skewed, not 100% straight, so any slight movement of the cable in the TV's HDMI port, I mean a "tap", would cut the signal. I probably just had a bad cable due to manufacturing issues, but that was my experience with my 65" B7.


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## madnosf

themcbrooms said:


> I tried the 20ft version of this cable and the HDMI connectors were a bit skewed, not 100% straight, so any slight movement of the cable in the TV's HDMI port, I mean a "tap", would cut the signal. I probably just had a bad cable due to manufacturing issues, but that was my experience with my 65" B7.


It WORKED!!! So far i have no issues and it actually told me on PS4 Pro that i have YUV420 60hz capability at this time on current output. All previously used cables including the PS4 Pro one told me it was RGB only. 

I have the monoprice 15ft premium cable (previously linked) from TV to Onkyo and the PS4 Pro provided hdmi cable from Onkyo (BD/DVD port) to PS4. Again, I have the latest firmware on all 3 devices. 


Hope all this helps someone else.


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## Otto Pylot

mrjaffa said:


> I measured up using a piece of string and found it to be 7.9m. Seems the longest you can get a certified cable is 7.5m (25ft). Hoping I can save those 40cm somewhere.


25' is the current maximum length that a cable can be certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), and the cable should come with a QR label for authenticity. Any cable "certified" at a length longer than 25' is suspect and will not come with a QR cable. Certification, however, is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work because setups, devices connected, etc vary considerably.


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## Jeff Cormier

Hi guys,

Figured I wouldn't start a new thread for this :

I need about 35-40 feet of HDMI cable to go from my Yamaha Aventage receiver to my Optoma UHD65 projector. Cable is run in a 2.5 inch conduit.

New house build - my electricians had run a 50 foot ''high speed cable'' that did not work at 2160p at all, regardless of refresh rate. I then purchased a 30 foot length of Primecables HDMI 2.0 licensed cable 24AWG. I tested the cable before running it through the conduit and it worked great, no issues at all. Super smooth. Ends up that is slightly too short - my conduit must have some turns that I did not know about as my calculations are off... I need closer to 40 feet...

These cables are not active but very heavy gauge and seem to be very high quality. 

https://www.primecables.ca/p-333117...0-cables-10ft-zinc-alloy-licensed-primecables

What do I do now, do I return it and start over or do I try an HDMI coupler and another 6 or 10 foot length of the same cable. I wonder if the coupler itself will cause signal loss issues or if the extra 6-10 feet will cause the signal to be too weak. Any ideas?

The cable in question is not available in longer lengths than 30 feet so if I start over it`s back to the drawing board. Looking to avoid spending $250 on a fiber optic HDMI..

Any help appreciated!

Jeff


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## Otto Pylot

Jeff Cormier said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Figured I wouldn't start a new thread for this :
> 
> I need about 35-40 feet of HDMI cable to go from my Yamaha Aventage receiver to my Optoma UHD65 projector. Cable is run in a 2.5 inch conduit.
> 
> New house build - my electricians had run a 50 foot ''high speed cable'' that did not work at 2160p at all, regardless of refresh rate. I then purchased a 30 foot length of Primecables HDMI 2.0 licensed cable 24AWG. I tested the cable before running it through the conduit and it worked great, no issues at all. Super smooth. Ends up that is slightly too short - my conduit must have some turns that I did not know about as my calculations are off... I need closer to 40 feet...
> 
> These cables are not active but very heavy gauge and seem to be very high quality.
> 
> https://www.primecables.ca/p-333117...0-cables-10ft-zinc-alloy-licensed-primecables
> 
> What do I do now, do I return it and start over or do I try an HDMI coupler and another 6 or 10 foot length of the same cable. I wonder if the coupler itself will cause signal loss issues or if the extra 6-10 feet will cause the signal to be too weak. Any ideas?
> 
> The cable in question is not available in longer lengths than 30 feet so if I start over it`s back to the drawing board. Looking to avoid spending $250 on a fiber optic HDMI..
> 
> Any help appreciated!
> 
> Jeff


"HDMI 2.0 licensed cable" sounds questionable. The wire gauge probably had more to do with the cable working than anything else. There is no such thing as an "HDMI licensed cable" unless the cable was certified by an ATC and came with a QR code of authenticity. 25' is the current maximum certification length.

Couplers can cause issue because 4k HDR is not as forgiving as 1080p or even 4k. The most reliable connection is a single run of cable from source to sink. If you do have bends in your conduit bend radius becomes an issue, especially with a thicker gauge cable. Increased strain on the HDMI input is also a consideration unless you have a decent service loop so that you can minimize the strain. An active cable, of sufficient gauge, may work but all you can do is try. At least you have a conduit so swapping cables is relatively easy. You might want to consider a solid core CAT-6 or 6a cable. Not CCS and not a CAT-6 ethernet patch cable. You'll have to terminate it with something like HDBT but pay attention to the HDMI chipsets used because the new version are just starting to appear. Other than that, a hybrid fiber cable is your other alternative.


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## Jeff Cormier

Thanks Otto - appreciate the comment. After your comment, I went ahead and tested out the cable again (30 feet) to be sure and threw everything my NVidia Shield could throw at it... It did not flinch at [email protected] in HDR - I am quite impressed for a $22 (Canadian!) cable.

I am very tempted to try a coupler and another 10 foot cable (taping the cables and coupler together so they don't seperate in the conduit. I guess I don't have much to lose to try since everything can be returned. My risk for trying is about $5 in shipping that I wouldn't get refunded. My total cost if this works is ~$40... versus $250 for a RUIPRO or Monoprice SlimRun AV... I will report back  Thanks!


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## Jeff Cormier

Actually, it appears like my Youtube tests were actually not HDR when I thought they were... Sorry, new equipment for me. I will try with a better source from the Shield this evening...


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## Otto Pylot

Jeff Cormier said:


> Actually, it appears like my Youtube tests were actually not HDR when I thought they were... Sorry, new equipment for me. I will try with a better source from the Shield this evening...


While you are running your cable in the conduit, I'd run a pull string as well. It's always nice to have one in place for future cable pulls.


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## Jeff Cormier

Definitely!


I did some additional tests and confirm that the $22 30 foot cable has no issues running [email protected] with HDR. I tried it with Netflix Chef's Table and a few Amazon Prime originals in HDR. Although I was not sure if those were 60fps videos, so I downloaded a Sony 4K HDR 60 fps demo from 4kmedia.org and ran it directly from my NVidia Shield. Played beautifully at [email protected] with HDR kicking on from the projector. Would that not be 17.xx Gbps? Is this enough confirmation that my cable can handle the 18Gbps at 30 feet?


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ there's more to successful 4k HDR than just the data pipe (cable) so I can't say for sure that if you are able to display a 4k HDR video clip that it is confirmation or not. It would seem to be but maybe someone else can answer that more definitively.


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## Jeff Cormier

Jeff Cormier said:


> Definitely!
> 
> 
> I did some additional tests and confirm that the $22 30 foot cable has no issues running [email protected] with HDR. I tried it with Netflix Chef's Table and a few Amazon Prime originals in HDR. Although I was not sure if those were 60fps videos, so I downloaded a Sony 4K HDR 60 fps demo from 4kmedia.org and ran it directly from my NVidia Shield. Played beautifully at [email protected] with HDR kicking on from the projector. Would that not be 17.xx Gbps? Is this enough confirmation that my cable can handle the 18Gbps at 30 feet?


For what it's worth - I tried my setup with the 30 foot cable + hdmi coupler + another 10 foot cable (same gauge and type as the 30 foot). It worked great for my NVidia Shield and for a Laptop outputting [email protected] on the other end. I was able to play [email protected] video in 4:2:2 in HDR no problem. Only problem is that my third source, a Arris VIP5662w 4K TV Receiver (off of Bell Fibe) will not handshake properly with the projector through this cable. Weird that the Shield and the laptop work, but not the STB (in 4K). All sources go through a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2070 and are all using 3 feet HDMI cables between device and receiver.


I just ordered a Monoprice Slimrun AV (Fiber Optic) in 50 feet at a whopping $230 CAD - too bad that I had to pay that much for only 1 of the 3 devices not working, but I'm guessing I will also get a better picture from the working sources with no data loss or signal degradation. If not for my STB not working, I would probably stick with the 30 foot + coupler + 10 foot setup - at around $40CAD that is a pretty killer deal to get full unrestricted 4K HDR at 40 feet distance from the AVR.


Hope this helps others in a similar situation.


Jeff


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## Jeff Cormier

Jeff Cormier said:


> For what it's worth - I tried my setup with the 30 foot cable + hdmi coupler + another 10 foot cable (same gauge and type as the 30 foot). It worked great for my NVidia Shield and for a Laptop outputting [email protected] on the other end. I was able to play [email protected] video in 4:2:2 in HDR no problem. Only problem is that my third source, a Arris VIP5662w 4K TV Receiver (off of Bell Fibe) will not handshake properly with the projector through this cable. Weird that the Shield and the laptop work, but not the STB (in 4K). All sources go through a Yamaha Aventage RX-A2070 and are all using 3 feet HDMI cables between device and receiver.
> 
> 
> I just ordered a Monoprice Slimrun AV (Fiber Optic) in 50 feet at a whopping $230 CAD - too bad that I had to pay that much for only 1 of the 3 devices not working, but I'm guessing I will also get a better picture from the working sources with no data loss or signal degradation. If not for my STB not working, I would probably stick with the 30 foot + coupler + 10 foot setup - at around $40CAD that is a pretty killer deal to get full unrestricted 4K HDR at 40 feet distance from the AVR.
> 
> 
> Hope this helps others in a similar situation.
> 
> 
> Jeff


REceived the Monoprice SlimRun AV fiber HDMI yesterday and installed it. To my dismay, it is still not perfect. I am very disappointed. At that price, I expected absolute perfection. My setup has sources going through the Yamaha RX-A2070 Aventage and then the output on the Yamaha has a 50 foot run using the SlimRun cable. Connected directly to my Shield (without going through the Yamaha AVR), it seems to work very well, but going through the 4K passthrough in the AVR creates some handshake issues (the Shield sometimes needs to try to handshake for 10-20 seconds before connecting). Once connected, it does seem to work OK but I did experience a few black screen dropouts and re-syncs but not too often. My other source, the Arris 4K PVR, has no handshake issues (it connects instantly through the Yamaha) but it does have some white horizontal lines going through the screen and had some dropouts here and there this morning, even when watching non-4K content.

This leaves 2 potential issues : either the HDMI cables from the sources to the AVR need to be beefed up (they are fairly standard high speed HDMI, nothing special, but 3 foot lengths) or the AVR is the problem.

The fact that it works when connected directly gives me hope that there is a workable solution, but so far I haven`t found it. Any suggestions appreciated.


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## Otto Pylot

A 3' cable length from device to receiver should not cause any issues at all if you are using a relatively new high speed HDMI cable. In fact, most any cable at that distance should work so I wouldn't expect that to be a cause of your issues. It almost sounds like an HDMI incompatibility (HDMI 2.0a connecting to an HDMI 1.4b chipset). HDMI is backwards compatible but only to the point of common protocols.


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## BeMurda

I recently purchased a 50 foot 18gbps cable from Monoprice:

14135 DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 50ft, Black

I have a Yamaha TS-R7810 and an Epson 2100 projector (1080p). When I received the cable I tested it from my HTPC (GTX 970) to the Yamaha and got no image. Then I tested it with my old PS4 (not pro) to the Yammy and got an image and sound (kept the old cable running to the Epson). I used the higher end ports on the Yamaha.

I then ran the cable through my drop ceiling and to the Epson. I cannot get any image from any source while it is running from the receiver to the projector. What would you suggest is the problem here?

The reason I purchased this cable is for 4k 60fps HDR. I have purchased a JVC x590r with 18gbps ports that I will be receiving Thursday. Should I expect it to magically work or is there a problem I need to solve? I'd rather not wait until Thursday to see if it will work, then be stuck without full capabilities for weeks to get a cable that will work. Thanks for your help!

Edit: I should also note that I also bought two 6ft cables and I plugged one into my HTPC and it worked fine.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ How did you run the cable thru the drop ceiling? Do you have a conduit? The cable is an active cable so if you installed it backwards, or pulled too hard on the sink end (which would damage the chipsets) that could be the problem. The cable description really means nothing because no one certifies a cable for 18Gbps at lengths longer than 25'.


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## BeMurda

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ How did you run the cable thru the drop ceiling? Do you have a conduit? The cable is an active cable so if you installed it backwards, or pulled too hard on the sink end (which would damage the chipsets) that could be the problem. The cable description really means nothing because no one certifies a cable for 18Gbps at lengths longer than 25'.


I'm a dummy, thanks it is working now. I didn't know it was directional, never have run into that. I'll see how it does with 4k HDR this weekend.


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## Otto Pylot

BeMurda said:


> I'm a dummy, thanks it is working now. I didn't know it was directional, never have run into that. I'll see how it does with 4k HDR this weekend.


Not to worry. There are lots of folks who have installed an active cable backwards (very few will admit that ) so just chalk it up to learning. The connector ends are usually labeled source and sink (tv side), or output/input. There may even be a directional arrow on the cable.


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## coxy2416

BeMurda said:


> I'm a dummy, thanks it is working now. I didn't know it was directional, never have run into that. I'll see how it does with 4k HDR this weekend.


How has the cable been working? I have been looking at getting either the Monoprice cable that you purchased or the Audioquest Pearl. The Monoprice cable is less then half the price of the Audioquest so it could be a big savings.


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## Otto Pylot

coxy2416 said:


> How has the cable been working? I have been looking at getting either the Monoprice cable that you purchased or the Audioquest Pearl. The Monoprice cable is less then half the price of the Audioquest so it could be a big savings.


If it were me, I'd try the Monoprice cable first. Audioquest, like Monster, charges ridiculously high prices for the cables by making all kinds of claims and promises to justify their high cost. Most of which are just marketing because no one can offer a 100% guarantee that a particular cable will work for any given setup and equipment.


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## Glenee

I just bought the Monoprice Direct view in 35Ft. I have not had a chance to run some 4K 60 HDR at it but I will, and will report here.
I don't know if BeMurda has had a chance to put his thru the paces, but mine passes some 4k just fine.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^ Cool. 35' for an active copper-based cable is certainly possible, with lots of caveats. Good luck.


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## Glenee

coxy2416 said:


> How has the cable been working? I have been looking at getting either the Monoprice cable that you purchased or the Audioquest Pearl. The Monoprice cable is less then half the price of the Audioquest so it could be a big savings.


I might need to be corrected on this now, but a few years back all HDMI Cables Ends were assembled in China or India.
There were no assembly done by any USA or European Companies. So there is a good chance that all HDMI cables are very close. Even Blue Jeans HDMI Cables were assembled across the pond at one time and I think they still are, could be wrong though.
The deal with buying local is the return time.
By the way I love BJC and always have, no knocks on them.


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## BeMurda

I can't get HDR to work on anything. Netflix does 4k over Chromecast Ultra but HDR doesn't show up on titles that should have it. I can't get it going. With the PS4 and 1080p HDR is pink, I can't seem to fix it. Everything is running through a Yamaha TS-R7810, I went into the settings and turned off video processing. All cables are new 18gbps units from Monoprice. JVC x590r.

I don't whether it is the cable or what.


----------



## coxy2416

BeMurda said:


> I can't get HDR to work on anything. Netflix does 4k over Chromecast Ultra but HDR doesn't show up on titles that should have it. I can't get it going. With the PS4 and 1080p HDR is pink, I can't seem to fix it. Everything is running through a Yamaha TS-R7810, I went into the settings and turned off video processing. All cables are new 18gbps units from Monoprice. JVC x590r.
> 
> I don't whether it is the cable or what.


I have not upgraded my 40' HDMI cable as of yet but also have an issue when running my PS4 in 1080P HDR as it comes out pink. I am not sure what the cause of it is. I was hoping my current cable would work for now as I was only running 1080P and not 4K.


----------



## coxy2416

Glenee said:


> I just bought the Monoprice Direct view in 35Ft. I have not had a chance to run some 4K 60 HDR at it but I will, and will report here.
> I don't know if BeMurda has had a chance to put his thru the paces, but mine passes some 4k just fine.


Have you had a chance to check out your cable? Seems like BeMurda is having some issues which may or may not be cable related.


----------



## coxy2416

BeMurda said:


> I can't get HDR to work on anything. Netflix does 4k over Chromecast Ultra but HDR doesn't show up on titles that should have it. I can't get it going. With the PS4 and 1080p HDR is pink, I can't seem to fix it. Everything is running through a Yamaha TS-R7810, I went into the settings and turned off video processing. All cables are new 18gbps units from Monoprice. JVC x590r.
> 
> I don't whether it is the cable or what.


Just read this on Sony's website "Note: The PS4 must be connected directly from the PS4 to the TV to output HDR. It can’t be connected to a receiver or switch box." I tried connecting it directly to the projector and had the same issue. Mind you the HDMI cable I was using is not an 18GB cable.


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## Glenee

BeMurda said:


> I can't get HDR to work on anything. Netflix does 4k over Chromecast Ultra but HDR doesn't show up on titles that should have it. I can't get it going. With the PS4 and 1080p HDR is pink, I can't seem to fix it. Everything is running through a Yamaha TS-R7810, I went into the settings and turned off video processing. All cables are new 18gbps units from Monoprice. JVC x590r.
> 
> I don't whether it is the cable or what.


 Also check the menu of the Display and see if you have to turn it on. On my Samsung's, Sony's and Vizio's I have to turn it on in the input menu on for it to work, and this is for each input.
Examples of this are : Samsung advance menu HDMI UHD Color ON, Vizio Menu input Full HD Color ON.


----------



## Glenee

coxy2416 said:


> Have you had a chance to check out your cable? Seems like BeMurda is having some issues which may or may not be cable related.


I have not. Just got it yesterday and have it strung across floor today for general testing before putting it in conduit.


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## Glenee

Well ran the cable to my main system. Ran Billy Lynns LHW at 4K 60 4:4:4 HDR from Oppo 203. Played for 30min's no black screens, funky colors, digital stripes, or any of the usual suspects. It looks like I have a keeper. Let me remind all on this forum that this cable thingy is just like Otto tells you every time , this one worked for me at the MOMENT. If you change anything it may not work. It may only work for a week and go to poop. 

Right now looks Good and I hope it continues to perform.


Monoprice DirectView 35 ft model #14133 28 AWG.


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## canadadry

BeMurda said:


> I recently purchased a 50 foot 18gbps cable from Monoprice:
> 
> 14135 DynamicView Active High Speed HDMI Cable - 4K @ 60Hz, HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL2, 50ft, Black
> 
> I have a Yamaha TS-R7810 and an Epson 2100 projector (1080p). When I received the cable I tested it from my HTPC (GTX 970) to the Yamaha and got no image. Then I tested it with my old PS4 (not pro) to the Yammy and got an image and sound (kept the old cable running to the Epson). I used the higher end ports on the Yamaha.
> 
> I then ran the cable through my drop ceiling and to the Epson. I cannot get any image from any source while it is running from the receiver to the projector. What would you suggest is the problem here?
> 
> The reason I purchased this cable is for 4k 60fps HDR. I have purchased a JVC x590r with 18gbps ports that I will be receiving Thursday. Should I expect it to magically work or is there a problem I need to solve? I'd rather not wait until Thursday to see if it will work, then be stuck without full capabilities for weeks to get a cable that will work. Thanks for your help!
> 
> Edit: I should also note that I also bought two 6ft cables and I plugged one into my HTPC and it worked fine.


I have the same JVC x590r and had ordered from Monoprice one 25 ft Certified 4K HDMI cable, and one 25 ft dynamic active 4K cable. Unfortunately, the drywall installers managed to cut thru the cables while making cutout in the ceiling (can see the exposed wiring on the passive 4K HDMI cable, minor damage to the active HDMI cable casing)

I probably will need to order replacements cables - debating whether just to get the passive certified versions (half the price) but because its thicker was a lot harder to pass thru my conduit (had to attach to the smaller cable and pull thru).

Originally ordered from Monoprice b/c they had a sale (and picked up across the border), but Primecables in canada now has the same cables on sale for 20% off so price is basically equivalent. Only difference is Monoprice has lifetime warranty while Primecables only offers 1 year warranty.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^ certification is only good up to 25' (ATC certification with a QR code for authenticity). Any promises beyond that are mostly marketing. 1080p is not the issue, 4k HDR over 25' is. A lifetime warranty is nice but if you haven't installed your cables in a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit, cable replacement is a very small part of it. Fishing cables without a conduit or pull string is a major pain. Passive or active copper-based cables probably won't be able to handle the higher bandwidths that are required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1, if that is your ultimate goal. Hybrid fiber is the way to go.


----------



## coxy2416

Just purchased a 50' Monoprice SlimRun High Speed Fiber Optic cable to be able to run 4K HDR material and it works perfectly. It is connecting my Anthem MRX 720 to a JVC-X790 with no drop outs or issues. I understand it is a little more expensive then other cables but it works and it is super thin and flexible and should easily run through my 2" conduit.



https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06XS8T2W4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

coxy2416 said:


> Just purchased a 50' Monoprice SlimRun High Speed Fiber Optic cable to be able to run 4K HDR material and it works perfectly. It is connecting my Anthem MRX 720 to a JVC-X790 with no drop outs or issues. I understand it is a little more expensive then other cables but it works and it is super thin and flexible and should easily run through my 2" conduit.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B06XS8T2W4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Conduit and a fiber optic cable is the way to go! Glad to hear that it is working for you.


----------



## xMrAx

Otto Pylot said:


> Conduit and a fiber optic cable is the way to go! Glad to hear that it is working for you.



I recently picked up a Monoprice HDR compliant fiber optic cable and have run into some problems. When plugged into my Denon receiver the wrong native resolution is reported to my 1080Ti. Nvidia thinks the native resolution is 720x480. Plugged directly into the TV, it detects the correct resolution, but Nvidia still does not correctly ramp up the GPU clock speeds with loads. I have test some other cables and it appears to only be an issue with the fiber optic cables. 



You can work around this by plugging directly into the TV and setting Prefer Maximum Performance in the Nvidia control panel, but then you can't use surround sound.


----------



## Otto Pylot

xMrAx said:


> I recently picked up a Monoprice HDR compliant fiber optic cable and have run into some problems. When plugged into my Denon receiver the wrong native resolution is reported to my 1080Ti. Nvidia thinks the native resolution is 720x480. Plugged directly into the TV, it detects the correct resolution, but Nvidia still does not correctly ramp up the GPU clock speeds with loads. I have test some other cables and it appears to only be an issue with the fiber optic cables.
> 
> 
> 
> You can work around this by plugging directly into the TV and setting Prefer Maximum Performance in the Nvidia control panel, but then you can't use surround sound.[/QUOTE
> 
> The hybrid fiber cables seem to work very well for most people but not all. The cable can’t change anything, it’s just a data pipe so the issues sometimes are hardware related. If other cables work then maybe you don’t need a hybrid fiber cable. It’s also possible that you got a bad cable or it was damaged during installation. Nothing is 100% guaranteed because there are just too many variables.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> The hybrid fiber cables seem to work very well for most people but not all. The cable can’t change anything, it’s just a data pipe so the issues sometimes are hardware related. If other cables work then maybe you don’t need a hybrid fiber cable. It’s also possible that you got a bad cable or it was damaged during installation. Nothing is 100% guaranteed because there are just too many variables.


Now that Summer has heated up, we’re starting to see more problems as well. In-Wall installations that may have been near the borderline of full 4K operation before seem to be stressed by 100F+ degree extremes.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Now that Summer has heated up, we’re starting to see more problems as well. In-Wall installations that may have been near the borderline of full 4K operation before seem to be stressed by 100F+ degree extremes.


Interesting. I would think that a properly installed in-conduit cable (CL3 rated) would not have any issues.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Interesting. I would think that a properly installed in-conduit cable (CL3 rated) would not have any issues.


Heat affects both the electronics in “active” cables and the rigidity of the cable itself (try to unroll a garden hose in freezing temps versus on a warm sunny day - the hotter it gets the more a cable will sag and stretch creating opportunities for kinks, binds, and pins being pulled).


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Heat affects both the electronics in “active” cables and the rigidity of the cable itself (try to unroll a garden hose in freezing temps versus on a warm sunny day - the hotter it gets the more a cable will sag and stretch creating opportunities for kinks, binds, and pins being pulled).


I suppose. It would seem to me that if the fiber cable were installed in such a way (loosely in a conduit instead of tightly pulled) with a gentle bend radius, that would compensate for any expansion/contraction of the cable during extreme temp swings. The chipsets at the sink/source ends (which should be outside of the conduit) would be exposed to air flow (if there was any) unless they are so close to the wall that additional heat from the connected device contributed to the potential issues. The cable specs should indicate the tested operating temps.


----------



## tknx

Wiring right now to a media closet - my electrician says 50 feet of HDMI.


I am having him run some smurf tube so I can change over to HDMI 2.1 at a later date. Is there any way to put something in that would work now? Will HDMI to Cat7 work?


Also - if not, if I use the Monoprice SlimRun - what is the difference between the versions they have?


----------



## TrendSetterX

tknx said:


> Wiring right now to a media closet - my electrician says 50 feet of HDMI.
> 
> 
> I am having him run some smurf tube so I can change over to HDMI 2.1 at a later date. Is there any way to put something in that would work now? Will HDMI to Cat7 work?
> 
> 
> Also - if not, if I use the Monoprice SlimRun - what is the difference between the versions they have?




TBH, given that 2.1 is going to require and use the same compression scheme/tech as currently being used for HDBaseT, you’d probably be safe running solid core non-CCA Cat5E. Anything over that (as long as solid core and non-CCA, would definitely support you). In fact, HDMI cables that don’t work for 2.0b will probably start working for 2.1 given the higher compression.


----------



## Otto Pylot

tknx said:


> Wiring right now to a media closet - my electrician says 50 feet of HDMI.
> 
> 
> I am having him run some smurf tube so I can change over to HDMI 2.1 at a later date. Is there any way to put something in that would work now? Will HDMI to Cat7 work?
> 
> 
> Also - if not, if I use the Monoprice SlimRun - what is the difference between the versions they have?


At 50', I'd recommend a hybrid fiber cable from someone like Ruipro. Period. That should work well for now and hopefully in the future. The fact that you are installing conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs. 

CAT-7 is an overkill at this point in time. However, if you install a pull string (highly recommended) then you can reinstall a solid core cable later on. Just keep in mind that you need to make sure that the cable is solid core (non-CCA and not a CAT-6 ethernet cable). I would not install CAT-5e, but that's just me. Solid core (non-CCA) CAT-6 is rated at 550MHz which should be more than enough bandwidth.

Bottom line, for 50' and a new install, I would not install a copper-based only HDMI cable. HDMI 2.1 is going to be an issue so you're best off with a hybrid fiber cable now. The last spec officially published for HDMI 2.1 listed a max of 3m (10') for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps). Hopefully that will change once the chipsets are available for commercial devices. You do need to keep in mind bend radius when installing any cable so pay attention to how the cable is being installed.

Solid core CAT-6 cable will need to be terminated with HDBT for HDMI, which requires a power source, so keep that in mind. Also, you need to make sure, which is difficult, that which ever HDBT device you use, it has the most current HDMI chipsets, and can be upgraded to future versions as need be. The beauty of HDBT tho is that the device is external to the cable, so all you need to do is change the termination point because the cable stays in the wall.

An active cable is not going to give you any advantage for 4k HDR over about 20'. Current active cables are meant to increase the reliability for 1080p transmission over the current maximum certifiable distance of 25'. 4k HDR is a whole 'nuther animal. Distance, bend radius, wire gauge, HDMI chipsets involved, etc. all play a very important part in a successful data transfer. The cable is just a data pipe.


----------



## coxy2416

tknx said:


> Wiring right now to a media closet - my electrician says 50 feet of HDMI.
> 
> 
> I am having him run some smurf tube so I can change over to HDMI 2.1 at a later date. Is there any way to put something in that would work now? Will HDMI to Cat7 work?
> 
> 
> Also - if not, if I use the Monoprice SlimRun - what is the difference between the versions they have?


I have the following 50' Fiber Optic cable from Monoprice. Works perfectly on all 4K content.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21568


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Now that Summer has heated up'_ - we had a very hot (for us) Summer here in the UK and no reported issues with our Hybrid Fibre cables, can't say the same for some customers hardware which required some additional cooling or repositioning! Who said the loft was a good spot to stack kit 

Joe


----------



## TheWarrior97

I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.

There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.

www.amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]

www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]


I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit. 

Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
Is this error message a common thing?

Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]


----------



## coxy2416

TheWarrior97 said:


> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]


I would try this cable and if it doesn't work I would ditch the keystones:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427


----------



## TrendSetterX

TheWarrior97 said:


> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> 
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> 
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> 
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]




Did you switch your Yamaha from Its default compatibility mode HDMI to enhanced? (It’s a somewhat hidden setting)


----------



## TheWarrior97

TrendSetterX said:


> TheWarrior97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> 
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> 
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> 
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> 
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you switch your Yamaha from Its default compatibility mode HDMI to enhanced? (It’s a somewhat hidden setting)
Click to expand...

I turned the 4k mode, utilizing the front panel, to both mode 1 and mode 2 with same results for both. If that's what you mean.


----------



## TheWarrior97

coxy2416 said:


> TheWarrior97 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> 
> I would try this cable and if it doesn't work I would ditch the keystones:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
Click to expand...

I'll give those a try. Any keystone work out there? I am trying to avoid an open hole in the wall to conceal the wires. Keep the cold air and funky smells behind the wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TheWarrior97 said:


> I'll give those a try. Any keystone work out there? I am trying to avoid an open hole in the wall to conceal the wires. Keep the cold air and funky smells behind the wall.


Anytime you "break" the direct connection you are introducing the possibility of error. 4k HDR is very unforgiving. Your best connection is a single cable, source to sink, without any adapters (a keystone would be an adapter). 

Your cable runs are under 20' so that's good but you really need to run a single cable wherever you can. There are wall plates that are not bad looking that allow for cable pass thru and still keep it neat. You can always apply some sort of installation behind the wall plate to seal out air and smells. With a little ingenuity you can come up with something that will work.

A larger gauge is always not a bad idea but then you lose cable flexibility (bend radius becomes more difficult to manage) and increase the strain on the HDMI input which can have its own set of issues.

I would use Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables (comes with a QR code for authenticity) because your runs are under 25', discard the wall plates and use "self insulated" pass thru wall plates. The use of the Premium High Speed HDMI cables is not a 100% guarantee that your problems will go away but for copper-based cables under 25', that's about as good as you can do.


----------



## TheWarrior97

TheWarrior97 said:


> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> www.amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]







Update. 

I tried 3 of the 6' Monoprice Certified cables last night from receiver to television. Both the Vandesail and Tripp Lite Pigtail Keystones didn't work if I used two. If I used one pigtail with 2-6', it worked.
I then tried 3-6' cables with two basic square monoprice keystones, and it seems to be working. Tonight ill try 2-3' and 1-6' as well as a 24awg 6' with each keystone. I installed the recessed media box and barely have any room behind it without having to severely bend the hdmi cable where it connects, which is why the pigtails would be the best option for spacing issues.


I've looked for self insulating wall plates and couldn't find anything. I know about the rubber grommet type and the brush type. Thought maybe I could find some stretchy rubber gasket/sheet that I could poke two small holes to feed the wire through and have it tightly close around the cable once I get the head through it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ Look for wall plate insulation gaskets on Amazon.


----------



## giomania

I ordered some premium certified cables from Blue Jeans Cable, and all the labels have a unique 10-letter "code" underneath the QR code on the label. Here is an example of one: KRW CMVAICI

Could these be individual serial numbers?

Thanks.

Mark


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ why?


----------



## Hyper82

Hello to everyone,
i'm newbie and i want to ask which hdmi do you suggest me to use in my playstation pro wich specifications are:
HDCP 2.2
HDR 4K 60Hz supported
color format :RGB / YUV420 (wich one of these is better to choose?) 

And my tv is Samsung ks7500 55" SUHD :
HDR 10bit panel 1000nits
4K 
HDMI 2.0a inputs
HDCP 2.2 support 
HEVC decoding

i don't know what else could help.... 

i use my playstation pro for hdr gaming&watching blu-ray discs. 
the distance between, for hdmi length, is 1- 1,5 meters (3.2-4.9ft).

I've read in the forum that hdmi cables support something 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0, and i don't know what these are and what my tv and playstation pro support! I just want to suggest me an hdmi to support full of the specs from my systems!
Thank you very much for the answers!


----------



## Hyper82

And when i choose 2160p RGB and use hdr game, when i go to video settings in playstation pro, says :"When displaying 4K HDR content at 60Hz,tge xolor format will be YUV422or YUV420 instead of RGB due to HDMI 2.0 transfer speed limitations.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At around 6' I would just look for a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable. The Premium designation means that the cable was tested and verified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) which subscribes to the certification program designed and implemented by HDMI.org. The cables will come with a QR label of authenticity and that's about the best you can do at this point in time with copper-based cables. No one can give you a 100% guarantee that any cable will work in all setups. It's still pretty much trial and error.

The version of HDMI chipsets involved in the source and sink end need to be the same hardware version. Otherwise, the ability to transfer all of the data correctly will "fall back" to the common protocol set. For example, if the PS Pro has HDMI 2.0b hardware, but your tv only has HDMI 2.0a, the tv will only decode and use whatever HDMI 2.0a chipsets dictate, and vice versa.


----------



## Hyper82

So i would choose premium high speed 2.0a that my tv can handle!
but can hdmi 2.0a can support rgb hdr 60hz?
cause i get the message i wrote before that turn the resolution in yuv422/yuv420...
and which one is better? rgb hdr 60hz or yuv 422/420?
(i think this is my last question! i don't want to ask silly questions in this forum..)


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hyper82 said:


> So i would choose premium high speed 2.0a that my tv can handle!
> but can hdmi 2.0a can support rgb hdr 60hz?
> cause i get the message i wrote before that turn the resolution in yuv422/yuv420...
> and which one is better? rgb hdr 60hz or yuv 422/420?
> (i think this is my last question! i don't want to ask silly questions in this forum..)


HDMI cables do not have version numbers. There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. They are either High Speed or Standard Speed, and High Speed is what is recommended for HTS's. The cable is just the data pipe, it can not change or alter the signal it is carrying. Even though HDMI cables are backwards compatible, it all comes down to the HDMI chipset versions on either your source (PS Pro) or your sink (7500). A certified cable is tested for bandwidths up to 18Gbps, which is currently the maximum needed in most cases. If you are having resolution issues, then it's either the HDMI chipset versions involved or there is a setting in the Pro that needs to be changed. If you have a choice, then try what looks best to you.


----------



## Hyper82

Otto Pylot said:


> HDMI cables do not have version numbers. There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.0" cable. They are either High Speed or Standard Speed, and High Speed is what is recommended for HTS's. The cable is just the data pipe, it can not change or alter the signal it is carrying. Even though HDMI cables are backwards compatible, it all comes down to the HDMI chipset versions on either your source (PS Pro) or your sink (7500). A certified cable is tested for bandwidths up to 18Gbps, which is currently the maximum needed in most cases. If you are having resolution issues, then it's either the HDMI chipset versions involved or there is a setting in the Pro that needs to be changed. If you have a choice, then try what looks best to you.


Oh! this is a new world for me!
your explanation make me to understand what is happening with hdmi's and where i have lost the "game" of marketing!!
thank you a lot!!!
really thanks!!
Have a good night from Greece everyone!!


----------



## Hyper82

oh, and another question, i use Lg blu-ray home Cinema 5.1(only for the sound, not for the blu-ray).
the hdmi that i am using now, is a common one 2.0 and i plug it in hdmi arc to tv, and i can see support dolby digital, dts, dts neo.
should i keep it or i must take an high speed for this connection too?


----------



## Hyper82

Is the first two-way ok or maybe fake? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072L2VSNS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_jSUJBbGEED5AE

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00Z9X0USK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_NVUJBbNFQ1XJV

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B075N83B9X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_HYUJBb3GMDY5W

wich one do you suggest me in that money budget?


----------



## Hyper82

I decided to buy belkin,i read a few "questions&answers" in "Q&A" section, under the description, that convinced me to persuade it...

https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-AV10175/


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hyper82 said:


> I decided to buy belkin,i read a few "questions&answers" in "Q&A" section, under the description, that convinced me to persuade it...
> 
> https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-AV10175/


That's all marketing but at 6', it should work like any other well made High Speed HDMI cable. Ultra High Speed HDMI is the term that HDMI.org will apply to cables for the HDMI 2.1 hardware spec once there is a certification program available. I believe HDMI.org registered the Premium High Speed HDMI cable name but not Ultra High Speed HDMI, so anyone can use that term for their cable descriptions.


----------



## Hyper82

Otto Pylot said:


> That's all marketing but at 6', it should work like any other well made High Speed HDMI cable. Ultra High Speed HDMI is the term that HDMI.org will apply to cables for the HDMI 2.1 hardware spec once there is a certification program available. I believe HDMI.org registered the Premium High Speed HDMI cable name but not Ultra High Speed HDMI, so anyone can use that term for their cable descriptions.


But here is sayings, to success 4K 60 4:4:4 10bit-hdr hdmi must support higher than 18Gbps, 22.28Gbps exactly.
http://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2017/06/22/4k-60-444-hdr

So my though is if i buy belkin that they are saying it is up to 48Gbps,that i will have the maximum specs of my tv(4k hdr 10bit panel&playstation pro that supports max 10bit&2160p rgb hdr).... :/


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hyper82 said:


> But here is sayings, to success 4K 60 4:4:4 10bit-hdr hdmi must support higher than 18Gbps, 22.28Gbps exactly.
> http://community.cedia.net/blogs/david-meyer/2017/06/22/4k-60-444-hdr
> 
> So my though is if i buy belkin that they are saying it is up to 48Gbps,that i will have the maximum specs of my tv(4k hdr 10bit panel&playstation pro that supports max 10bit&2160p rgb hdr).... :/


What exactly does "up to 48Gbps" mean and how was that determined? Without proper, standardized testing and certification the cable mfr can test it any old way they want to and make those claims. That's what's so frustrating about HDMI cables in general. All you can do is try. If it works, great. If not, try another cable. Just keep in mind that your source and sink have to have the same HDMI chipset protocol versions, otherwise you can have issues.


----------



## Hyper82

Otto Pylot said:


> What exactly does "up to 48Gbps" mean and how was that determined? Without proper, standardized testing and certification the cable mfr can test it any old way they want to and make those claims. That's what's so frustrating about HDMI cables in general. All you can do is try. If it works, great. If not, try another cable. Just keep in mind that your source and sink have to have the same HDMI chipset protocol versions, otherwise you can have issues.


up to 48Gbps, i hope to means at least to reach 22.28Gbps!!! hahaha!!!
thanks for the answers!!!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hyper82 said:


> up to 48Gbps, i hope to means at least to reach 22.28Gbps!!! hahaha!!!
> thanks for the answers!!!


There are no guarantees because cable mfrs can claim just about anything. No one currently certifies (ATC) a cable for anything above 18Gbps and over 25'. If it doesn't work, don't be surprised. If it does work, congratulations.


----------



## Hyper82

Otto Pylot said:


> There are no guarantees because cable mfrs can claim just about anything. No one currently certifies (ATC) a cable for anything above 18Gbps and over 25'. If it doesn't work, don't be surprised. If it does work, congratulations.



Ok! I'm prepared for the possibilities ofthe disappointment!! hahaha!! 
Thanks!!


----------



## giomania

giomania said:


> I ordered some premium certified cables from Blue Jeans Cable, and all the labels have a unique 10-letter "code" underneath the QR code on the label. Here is an example of one: KRW CMVAICI
> 
> Could these be individual serial numbers?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark


I emailed Blue Jeans Cable, and those are indeed individual serial numbers, but they are not labeled on the cable. Interesting.

Mark


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> I emailed Blue Jeans Cable, and those are indeed individual serial numbers, but they are not labeled on the cable. Interesting.
> 
> Mark


If the cable comes with a QR label then that's the best you can do. I too have some cable coming in from BJC so we'll see. My guess is that they will be fine.


----------



## TheWarrior97

TheWarrior97 said:


> I have a PS4 Pro connected to an Aventage 3070 receiver connected to a Sony XBR-55x850b. My Sony has 4k but was a year before the HDR equipping. Everytime I turn on the ps4 pro I get flickers every few minutes like its trying to properly handshake but my screen says "Unsupported signal, check device output." It appears to have something to do with the cabling and/or wall keystones. If I go directly from my receiver to my tv with one cable, it works normal.
> 
> There is 3 cables and 2 keystones between my receiver and tv, total cable length would be 6ft in wall, 6ft from wall to tv and 6 ft from receiver to wall, 12ft total. 10ft from ps4 to receiver.
> 
> www.amazon.com/Keystone-Cable-VANDESAIL-Female-Coupler/dp/B078SLSLL4/ref=sr_1_11?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1535346891&sr=1-11&keywords=keystone+hdmi+jack[/url]
> 
> www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=6852[/url]
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B014I8TIV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003XM1WE0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]
> 
> 
> I tried two types of keystones shown below and am using BlueRigger and AmazonBasic HDMI Cables. Im thinking I need to go bigger guage hdmi cables and try to shorten the cabling a bit.
> 
> Did you guys come to a consensus on a cable that will maintain a good signal and prevent my "unsupported signal" error message?
> Is this error message a common thing?
> 
> Im thinking about using this in wall since its 24awg.
> 
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CK7LQPS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3R6P48W5TJFX&psc=1[/url]



I broke down and installed a pass through wall plate and got rid of the keystones. I have the 15' monoprice certified cable running straight from the receiver to the tv. No issues since. I think the keystones were fine, just the number of "breaks" utilizing the keystones that was the problem. If I did just two cables and one keystone, then it would work okay.


Problem solved.


----------



## vicdvp

Read about 30 pages but could get enough info to figure out if a passive 20' HDMI 4K HDR (Cert) will work to use from my AVR to TV. Seems like what I've read is that 20' tends to be where problems start for copper HDMI cables pushing HDR? Perhaps I should stick to 15', it will be a stretch though. I was going to use Vanco Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable with Ethernet. Its certified (HDMI.org)


----------



## Otto Pylot

vicdvp said:


> Read about 30 pages but could get enough info to figure out if a passive 20' HDMI 4K HDR (Cert) will work to use from my AVR to TV. Seems like what I've read is that 20' tends to be where problems start for copper HDMI cables pushing HDR? Perhaps I should stick to 15', it will be a stretch though. I was going to use Vanco Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cable with Ethernet. Its certified (HDMI.org)


The cable mfr doesn't matter as long as the cable is certified by an ATC and comes with the QR label of authenticity. That's the nice thing about ATC certification. It's always best to shorten the cable length if you can as long as you can minimize the strain on the HDMI input. Ethernet means nothing at this point in time because the industry never embraced that protocol so there are no consumer devices that take advantage of it. 20' is just the distance where we seem to start seeing issues but it's not an absolute. Some don't have any issues at that distance, or even a bit longer, and others have issues at 15'. 25' is the current maximum ATC certifiable length but some mfrs will only offer ATC certification up to 15' so read the cable specs carefully.


----------



## vicdvp

I hope I’m not breaking any forum rules by posting a link but this article states that there is signal degradation on longer HDMI copper cables that is visible. Reading on here most guys say it either works or doesn’t, and nothing in between. I have a 20-25’ run I’m doing and wondering do I get an optic or copper but don’t want to have issues down the line. 

http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/comparison-test-hdmi-copper-vs-fiber-optic/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

vicdvp said:


> I hope I’m not breaking any forum rules by posting a link but this article states that there is signal degradation on longer HDMI copper cables that is visible. Reading on here most guys say it either works or doesn’t, and nothing in between. I have a 20-25’ run I’m doing and wondering do I get an optic or copper but don’t want to have issues down the line.
> 
> http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/comparison-test-hdmi-copper-vs-fiber-optic/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sparkles, snow, video cutting in and out, etc are all signs of poor signal quality. As we've said, you either get it or you don't. 1080p is fine over long distances. That's one of the reasons why active cables came into being is that they could maintain signal integrity thru error correction, timing, etc over 25' (which was, and still is, the current maximum certification distance for HDMI 2.0b). The issue is the higher video standards like 4k, and 4k HDR. Copper can work but is not consistently reliable. If you are planning on moving up to 4k HDR, and possibly beyond, then investing in a hybrid fiber cable might be a good idea. They are expensive but they will certainly work for 4k HDR at that distance. However, if your run is in-wall then you need to install a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") and run your cable inside that because cabling requirements will change with the ever-changing video standards which means you may have to upgrade your cable as well. The ONLY way to future proof cabling over about 20' is to install a conduit. If your cable is easily accessible then you won't need to install a conduit. The cable is just the data pipe. Other factors such as bend radius, HDMI chipsets on the source/sink end, etc all play a part in a solid connection.


----------



## vicdvp

Otto Pylot said:


> Sparkles, snow, video cutting in and out, etc are all signs of poor signal quality. As we've said, you either get it or you don't. 1080p is fine over long distances. That's one of the reasons why active cables came into being is that they could maintain signal integrity thru error correction, timing, etc over 25' (which was, and still is, the current maximum certification distance for HDMI 2.0b). The issue is the higher video standards like 4k, and 4k HDR. Copper can work but is not consistently reliable. If you are planning on moving up to 4k HDR, and possibly beyond, then investing in a hybrid fiber cable might be a good idea. They are expensive but they will certainly work for 4k HDR at that distance. However, if your run is in-wall then you need to install a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") and run your cable inside that because cabling requirements will change with the ever-changing video standards which means you may have to upgrade your cable as well. The ONLY way to future proof cabling over about 20' is to install a conduit. If your cable is easily accessible then you won't need to install a conduit. The cable is just the data pipe. Other factors such as bend radius, HDMI chipsets on the source/sink end, etc all play a part in a solid connection.




Thank you. I’m running 4K HDR only. 1.5” Smurf tube already installed. I ordered a Wyrestorm optic HDMI from my local distributor so that answers all my questions. Thank you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joe Fernand

vicdvp - not buying into the side by side image image/article you linked to, that is not representative of what you would expect to see with a 5' copper cable.

Can you imagine what this Forum would look like if everyone using a Copper HDMI cable for UHD had an image that was so poor!

HDMI.org reckon 90+% of HDMI cables are 2m long and there are tens of millions of them out in the wild.

Joe


----------



## vicdvp

Joe Fernand said:


> vicdvp - not buying into the side by side image image/article you linked to, that is not representative of what you would expect to see with a 5' copper cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you imagine what this Forum would look like if everyone using a Copper HDMI cable for UHD had an image that was so poor!
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI.org reckon 90+% of HDMI cables are 2m long and there are tens of millions of them out in the wild.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe




I had the same opinion about that, bs is what it seemed to me. But in my case (4K HDR) where I need a 20’ run should I just buy an optic and be done with it? I have a 20’ certified 4K Vanco laying around...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

vicdvp said:


> I had the same opinion about that, bs is what it seemed to me. But in my case (4K HDR) where I need a 20’ run should I just buy an optic and be done with it? I have a 20’ certified 4K Vanco laying around...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the cable is not certified by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which comes with a QR label for authenticity, then it's anybody's guess as to what the mfr considers certified. ATC certification follows protocols designed by HDMI.org according to their HDMI protocols and procedures. A 20' cable run is still within the 25' maximum certification length as determined by HDMI.org for copper-based cables. When I recently setup my new HTS I used Premium High Speed HDMI cables from Blue Jeans, and they all came with the QR label. However, my runs are 4' and 5'. Interestingly enough, Blue Jeans only offers Premium High Speed HDMI cables up to 15' (BJC Series FE-Belden Bonded Pair). If you want to give yourself some flexibility at 20'-25' you really should consider a hybrid fiber cable from a reputable source (as reported by users here on AVS) such as Ruipro.


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> A 20' cable run is still within the 25' maximum certification length as determined by HDMI.org for copper-based cables. Interestingly enough, Blue Jeans only offers Premium High Speed HDMI cables up to 15' (BJC Series FE-Belden Bonded Pair). If you want to give yourself some flexibility at 20'-25' you really should consider a hybrid fiber cable from a reputable source (as reported by users here on AVS) such as Ruipro.




I found that interesting also. I am upgrading my projector to 4K unit, and I am going to run a blue jeans cable Series 3A hybrid fiber 25 foot cable alongside my BJC series FE 25 foot copper cable to my projector.

The series FE may work just fine, but I have a need for two HDMI runs now anyway, so I decided to add the hybrid fiber cable.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Joe Fernand

_' blue jeans cable Series 3A ' _- are those not Active Copper cables?

Joe


----------



## aaronwt

Joe Fernand said:


> vicdvp - not buying into the side by side image image/article you linked to, that is not representative of what you would expect to see with a 5' copper cable.
> 
> Can you imagine what this Forum would look like if everyone using a Copper HDMI cable for UHD had an image that was so poor!
> 
> HDMI.org reckon 90+% of HDMI cables are 2m long and there are tens of millions of them out in the wild.
> 
> Joe


Yes. I use a three foot cable from my PS4 pro to an HDMI switch, and then a fifteen foot cable to a receiver. My picture has always looked like the one on the left. If it looked like the right then the cable is defective

Sent from my Galaxy S8 using Tapatalk


----------



## giomania

Joe Fernand said:


> _' blue jeans cable Series 3A ' _- are those not Active Copper cables?
> 
> 
> 
> Joe




Looks like you are correct. They must be a recent addition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Lex vs Kingpin

Hello,

Today I ordered a 4k projector and now looking for a budget friendly HDMI cable. I am in need of something around 7-10 meters (22 - 32 ft). I am in between 25 ft. Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable and 50 ft. Optical Fiber HDMI

Price difference would be 13 USD (after shipping overseas), can you recommend which one to select? Best.


----------



## coxy2416

Lex vs Kingpin said:


> Hello,
> 
> Today I ordered a 4k projector and now looking for a budget friendly HDMI cable. I am in need of something around 7-10 meters (22 - 32 ft). I am in between 25 ft. Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable and 50 ft. Optical Fiber HDMI
> 
> Price difference would be 13 USD (after shipping overseas), can you recommend which one to select? Best.


I have two, 6 foot versions of that monoprice cable and they work perfectly. I also use a 50' version of this monoprice cable to hook up my projector.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21568


----------



## Otto Pylot

Lex vs Kingpin said:


> Hello,
> 
> Today I ordered a 4k projector and now looking for a budget friendly HDMI cable. I am in need of something around 7-10 meters (22 - 32 ft). I am in between 25 ft. Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI Cable and 50 ft. Optical Fiber HDMI
> 
> Price difference would be 13 USD (after shipping overseas), can you recommend which one to select? Best.


For runs under 25', about the best you can do are the Premium High Speed HDMI cables (should come with a QR label for authenticity). Not a 100% guarantee but you can't do any better. For runs over about 25', most recommend a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro is one example).


----------



## always.cool

*HDMI type question*

Dear All,
I am new here but I think this is the right forum for my question:
My home theater contractor wants me to buy 4 100ft, 2.0b, 18bps, 4k, fiber optic HDMI cables for my 4 TV's to the control room (I am doing alteration construction to a my house). He is recommending these Furui HDMI cables from Amazon.
Considering the long wire runs, here are my questions:
1- I will have to pay $800 for the 4 cables, is this the best and most economic option I have?
2- I can't run a guiding tube to put the HDMI wire in to make it easier to change the wire in the future if the wire goes bad or needs to be upgraded. What other options do I have to make sure that I won't have to reopen the walls in the future? My wife says it is ok to install the wire without enclosing it in a tube because everything will be wireless in the future, including HDMI signals. I am not sure how true that is. Please, help me answer these questions. I really appreciate it.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Installation - I would not rely on wireless for high bandwidth HDMI any time soon so go ahead and run those conduits (with a pull cord) and ensure no right angled bends.

HDMI cables - we favour the RuiPro Hybrid Fibre cables. 

Ignore guff about HDMI version numbers - does not apply to cables and currently only 8m or shorter copper cables can be 'certified' by HDMI.org, there is no process in place to certify Active, Fibre or Hybrid Fibre cables so the factories simply slap every number on they can.

TV audio - are you using the TV as a Source and do you have in-rom or centralised audio in the system?

Joe


----------



## always.cool

*HDMI type question*

Joe, thank you so much for the information!
I just looked at the Ruipro HDMI cables and they are $240 USD for each 100ft run. I will have to spend $1000 on the 4 cables. Is this the best and most economic option? Are they superior to the Furui ones my contractor is recommending? amazon.com/gp/product/B07997XQX9?pf_rd_p=c2945051-950f-485c-b4df-15aac5223b10&pf_rd_r=QVZRMNDZVN59RZ8AFMGE&th=1[/url]
Yes, there is a central (control) room, where there will be the receiver and other equipment to feed all 4 TV's.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Active Fibre HDMI vs. Hybrid Fibre HDMI - we find the Hybrid cables to be more reliable and less system dependant than any of the Active Fibre solutions we have tried out.

Central Room - for various reasons we are seeing less and less projects with a central Hub serving all rooms, the cost of cabling to cater for 4K UHD being one issue. We are also seeing many customers using their 'Smart' TV as the primary Source so no need to centralise Source devices (which in many cases are relatively inexpensive items and better networked around the property) and in many systems 'secondary' rooms are using local Soundbars for audio playback.

System - do you have an outline of what is being planned?

Joe


----------



## always.cool

Joe Fernand said:


> Active Fibre HDMI vs. Hybrid Fibre HDMI - we find the Hybrid cables to be more reliable and less system dependant than any of the Active Fibre solutions we have tried out.
> 
> Central Room - for various reasons we are seeing less and less projects with a central Hub serving all rooms, the cost of cabling to cater for 4K UHD being one issue. We are also seeing many customers using their 'Smart' TV as the primary Source so no need to centralise Source devices (which in many cases are relatively inexpensive items and better networked around the property) and in many systems 'secondary' rooms are using local Soundbars for audio playback.
> 
> System - do you have an outline of what is being planned?
> 
> Joe


Unfortunately, I don't have the system plan. Smart TV's will be the source in some rooms. But other rooms are too large for soundbars. For instance, the living room will require a 7.2 home theater system, in addition to 5 other speakers on the same floor. So, I think centralization is recommended to integrate things to work together. At least this is how to was explained to me by the contractor.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Unfortunately, I don't have the system plan.'_ - you need one before you/the contractor makes a start on the project!

Centralised is only required if you have something which has to be 'central' and serve all Zones.

Zones - pretty common to have a Primary AV Zone plus secondary TV/Soundbar Zones, it is also pretty common to also have a multi-zone music system, which may be integrated with the AV or a stand-alone system.

Source devices - what are you planning for and which have to be 'shared' to all Zones.

Joe


----------



## always.cool

The plan,
The house is 3 floors:

first floor is split in half, 
first half is an office for my practice on one side, has TV for my patients, a monitor for surveillance cameras, and 4 in wall speakers for music and/or TV 
second half is a living area, another TV and in-wall speakers 

Second floor:
Living area has a in wall 7.2 home theater system on one side
Other side has a kitchen, kitchenette, and dinning room, each has a TV and in-wall speakers.

Third floor, 
4 bedrooms, 
Masterbedroom: has a TV with in-wall speakers.
The other three bedrooms are the children's bedrooms, have three stand-alone smart TV's with soundbars, and the plan is to put Bluetooth in-walls speakers for music.

Only the masterbedroom, on the third floor, the home theater on the second floor, the kitchen TV on the second floor, and the office TV are centralized to a control room.


----------



## Joe Fernand

What are the Centralised Source devices which need to be shared to multiple Zones?

When you want to ‘share’ a Source to multiple Zones you ideally have the same playback capabilities in all Zones or the Source has to be configured for the least capable Zone.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

I was going to jump in here but I see Joe has pretty much covered the bases so no need to repeat anything. @always.cool, @Joe Fernand gives solid advice, although not always the cheapest option , so I'd follow his advice. It's unfortunate that you can't run conduit because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs. Video technology is outpacing connection technology so chances of upgrading your cabling in the future is a likelyhood.


Yeah, wireless HDMI would be nice but I woudn't count on it anytime soon, especially for 4k HDR and HD Audio.


----------



## always.cool

Joe Fernand said:


> What are the Centralised Source devices which need to be shared to multiple Zones?
> 
> When you want to ‘share’ a Source to multiple Zones you ideally have the same playback capabilities in all Zones or the Source has to be configured for the least capable Zone.
> 
> Joe


The sources that will be shared are basically the video and audio signals via AVR, surveillance cameras, and Apple TV.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'The sources that will be shared are basically the video and audio signals via AVR' _- as per earlier post that only works if all Zones have the same capabilities otherwise the least capable Zone dictates that your Sources are set to work with that Zone and not optimised for the most capable (AVR) Zone!

_'surveillance cameras, and Apple TV'_ - there are better ways to distribute a CCTV signal and ATV or ATV 4K are half the cost of an extender and installing one per Zone means each Zone has independent viewing.

Joe


----------



## exm

Curious about these 8k fiber cables:
SIKAI Optical Fiber 8K Cable Compatible with LG TV, Samsung QLED TV, Apple TV, VIZIO TV, Roku, 48Gbps Ultra High Speed 8K 4K 4320P UHD HDR High-Definition Multimedia Interface Cable (30 Feet) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K26X92G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xcsrCbX3CQFY7


----------



## bobbino421

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024024&p_id=31230 
Monoprice makes 8K cables now too.


----------



## Otto Pylot

exm said:


> Curious about these 8k fiber cables:
> SIKAI Optical Fiber 8K Cable Compatible with LG TV, Samsung QLED TV, Apple TV, VIZIO TV, Roku, 48Gbps Ultra High Speed 8K 4K 4320P UHD HDR High-Definition Multimedia Interface Cable (30 Feet) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07K26X92G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_xcsrCbX3CQFY7



8k cable? I seriously doubt that. Slick Chinese marketing at best. A well made hybrid fiber cable from a known mfr like Ruipro should be able to work well for what you need to do now. There is no way to verify the claim of 48Gbps, which is HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications because ATC's are just starting to accept connectors and possibly cables for certification of the HDMI 2.1 specifications.


----------



## exm

Otto Pylot said:


> 8k cable? I seriously doubt that. Slick Chinese marketing at best. A well made hybrid fiber cable from a known mfr like Ruipro should be able to work well for what you need to do now. There is no way to verify the claim of 48Gbps, which is HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications because ATC's are just starting to accept connectors and possibly cables for certification of the HDMI 2.1 specifications.



I believe you but still: these cables are relatively cheap.


----------



## Otto Pylot

exm said:


> I believe you but still: these cables are relatively cheap.



Cheap is the operative word  Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are not cheap but by most of the reports here on AVS they work very well. Unfortunately, there is still some trial and error with cables over about 25'. If your cabling can be easily installed/removed then try them. Just pay very close attention to the return policy.


8k is the big industry buzz word now and you will see a lot of smoke and mirrors with 8k/HDMI 2.1 being used in cable descriptions. It's all marketing b.s. By the time 8k/HDMI 2.1 tv's are in the wild, and affordable, what you buy today for "future proofing" will more than likely not work well. The only way to future proof your cabling is to run your cables in a conduit if in-wall installed and your run is over 20', or lay your cabling in such a manner that you can easily change it out later on. Cable technology still lags far behind video technology so caveat emptor.


----------



## exm

Otto Pylot said:


> Cheap is the operative word  Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are not cheap but by most of the reports here on AVS they work very well. Unfortunately, there is still some trial and error with cables over about 25'. If your cabling can be easily installed/removed then try them. Just pay very close attention to the return policy.
> 
> 
> 8k is the big industry buzz word now and you will see a lot of smoke and mirrors with 8k/HDMI 2.1 being used in cable descriptions. It's all marketing b.s. By the time 8k/HDMI 2.1 tv's are in the wild, and affordable, what you buy today for "future proofing" will more than likely not work well. The only way to future proof your cabling is to run your cables in a conduit if in-wall installed and your run is over 20', or lay your cabling in such a manner that you can easily change it out later on. Cable technology still lags far behind video technology so caveat emptor.



How's Ruipro vs Monoprice HDR High Speed Cable - SlimRun AV Series ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

exm said:


> How's Ruipro vs Monoprice HDR High Speed Cable - SlimRun AV Series ?


No way of telling how they will perform in your setup. All setups are different so all you can do is try. They are polymer-based optical cables as opposed to glass-based optical cables so you do have a bit more flexibility with a smaller gauge. The cables are active in that the specs indicate no external power required because they only require 50mA of power, and if you look closely at the terminal ends, one says Source and the other Display. Active cables are fine as long as the chips in the Sink (Display) end can keep up with the ever-increasing video standards.


----------



## TrendSetterX

exm said:


> How's Ruipro vs Monoprice HDR High Speed Cable - SlimRun AV Series ?


Last I checked, monoprice is still selling the previous generation of “active” cables that use older tech that doesn’t fully support UHD+HDR+60 . I don’t know which generation of cable the ones you’re referencing belong to...


----------



## exm

Ok, Ruipro it is then... need about 30ft.


----------



## AdamAttewell

Just been reading the last few pages of this thread as I am looking for an HDMI cable 50 foot in length that will pass 4K, 60Hz, 4.4.4, 12 bit & am I right in saying that I will need a hybrid cable to get the job done?

It seems runs under 25 foot you go for a certified cable & over 25 foot fibre cables are you only real option for 4K HDR?


----------



## Otto Pylot

AdamAttewell said:


> Just been reading the last few pages of this thread as I am looking for an HDMI cable 50 foot in length that will pass 4K, 60Hz, 4.4.4, 12 bit & am I right in saying that I will need a hybrid cable to get the job done?
> 
> It seems runs under 25 foot you go for a certified cable & over 25 foot fibre cables are you only real option for 4K HDR?



Most folks have reported very favorable results with the hybrid fiber cables over about 25'. Keep in mind that no cable is 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup. There are other factors involved in just the data pipe (cable). At 50' are you running your cable in a conduit or is it easily accessible? Bend radius is very important as well so make sure if you have any bends that they are gentle. ATC certification is only good to 25' for copper-based cables.


----------



## AdamAttewell

Otto Pylot said:


> Most folks have reported very favorable results with the hybrid fiber cables over about 25'. Keep in mind that no cable is 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup. There are other factors involved in just the data pipe (cable). At 50' are you running your cable in a conduit or is it easily accessible? Bend radius is very important as well so make sure if you have any bends that they are gentle. ATC certification is only good to 25' for copper-based cables.



Yes it will be easily accessible (in loft space) so I will have no issues if it needs to be replaced as it wont be stuck in a wall or under a floor.


I would love to go for one of the ruipro cables but at £200 for 50' its a little on the expensive side for me, yes I know you get what you pay for.


I dropped Blue Jeans Cable an email about their Series 3A Active HDMI cables & asked if it would support 4K, 60Hz, 4.4.4, 12bit, BT 2020 over a 50 foot length & they said it would do that no problem.


I have many BJC cables & they have always have done as advertised, I would have to import from the US to UK but they use FedEx & pay the customs fees so this makes the process less painful.


I am a little hesitant as if it does not work with my setup returning it will be an issue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AdamAttewell said:


> Yes it will be easily accessible (in loft space) so I will have no issues if it needs to be replaced as it wont be stuck in a wall or under a floor.
> 
> 
> I would love to go for one of the ruipro cables but at £200 for 50' its a little on the expensive side for me, yes I know you get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> I dropped Blue Jeans Cable an email about their Series 3A Active HDMI cables & asked if it would support 4K, 60Hz, 4.4.4, 12bit, BT 2020 over a 50 foot length & they said it would do that no problem.
> 
> 
> I have many BJC cables & they have always have done as advertised, I would have to import from the US to UK but they use FedEx & pay the customs fees so this makes the process less painful.
> 
> 
> I am a little hesitant as if it does not work with my setup returning it will be an issue.



I currently use BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and they work just fine, but my cable runs are less than 10' so copper-based cables work great for 4k HDR. BJC makes very good cables and I recommend them whenever I can. However, no cable mfr can, or should imply a 100% guarantee that the cable will work for any setup because there are other factors involved in a successful cable run other than the data pipe (cable). Active cables are designed to extend the cable length beyond the maximum certifiable length of 25' so that signal integrity can be maintained. They work great for 1080p. 50' is a bit long for any cable especially for 4k HDR because the video demands are much more stringent than 4k SDR. The other issues with active cables is the chipset in the sink end (tv side). One, they may fail over time like any other electronic device and two, they need to be able to keep up with the ever-changing video standards. Bend radius is also critical for long runs so make sure that any bends in the cable run are as gentle as possible.


All you can do is try.


----------



## AdamAttewell

Otto Pylot said:


> I currently use BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and they work just fine, but my cable runs are less than 10' so copper-based cables work great for 4k HDR. BJC makes very good cables and I recommend them whenever I can. However, no cable mfr can, or should imply a 100% guarantee that the cable will work for any setup because there are other factors involved in a successful cable run other than the data pipe (cable). Active cables are designed to extend the cable length beyond the maximum certifiable length of 25' so that signal integrity can be maintained. They work great for 1080p. 50' is a bit long for any cable especially for 4k HDR because the video demands are much more stringent than 4k SDR. The other issues with active cables is the chipset in the sink end (tv side). One, they may fail over time like any other electronic device and two, they need to be able to keep up with the ever-changing video standards. Bend radius is also critical for long runs so make sure that any bends in the cable run are as gentle as possible.
> 
> 
> All you can do is try.





Many thanks for all the great info Otto, I will probably go for a hybrid cable see as I can get one in the UK easily so if it does not work returning it should not be to much of an issue.


Thanks again


----------



## Otto Pylot

AdamAttewell said:


> Many thanks for all the great info Otto, I will probably go for a hybrid cable see as I can get one in the UK easily so if it does not work returning it should not be to much of an issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks again


There is a frequent poster here, Joe Fernand, who is on your side of the pond. He is a wealth of information and may be able to help you if you have issues getting, or setting up a cable.


----------



## AdamAttewell

Otto Pylot said:


> There is a frequent poster here, Joe Fernand, who is on your side of the pond. He is a wealth of information and may be able to help you if you have issues getting, or setting up a cable.



Yes the ruipro cable I am looking at on Amazon is from The Media Factory which from his signature is one of the same.


I was wondering though if right now I needed to upgrade to a new cable, the current one I am using can pass 4K, 60Hz, 4.2.0, 10bit, BT.2020 no problems.


Now I know most 4K movies are still at 24Hz other than a handful that are shot at 60Hz but don't they all still use 4.2.0?


They only issue I can think I could run into is with Netflix or Amazon Video as most of the content is 60Hz but is there any content in 4.2.2 or 4.4.4? 



I thought because of the costs involved to use these & also you cant really tell the difference between 4.2.0 & 4.4.4 in moving content like movies & TV its not used?


----------



## TrendSetterX

AdamAttewell said:


> Yes the ruipro cable I am looking at on Amazon is from The Media Factory which from his signature is one of the same.
> 
> 
> I was wondering though if right now I needed to upgrade to a new cable, the current one I am using can pass 4K, 60Hz, 4.2.0, 10bit, BT.2020 no problems.
> 
> 
> Now I know most 4K movies are still at 24Hz other than a handful that are shot at 60Hz but don't they all still use 4.2.0?
> 
> 
> They only issue I can think I could run into is with Netflix or Amazon Video as most of the content is 60Hz but is there any content in 4.2.2 or 4.4.4?
> 
> 
> 
> I thought because of the costs involved to use these & also you cant really tell the difference between 4.2.0 & 4.4.4 in moving content like movies & TV its not used?


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ basic information that has been posted before. If the OP is happy with his current cable then he should just stick with it. If he wants to "future proof" then a conduit and a hybrid fiber cable should work, for now. As far as the chroma, 4:2:0 vs 4:4:4, I think most folks would be hard pressed to tell the difference on a panel (tv). It's a technical moot point imo until all devices have fully compliant HDMI 2.1 hardware and movies and/or sources are being made to take advantage of the color space, and that ain't gonna happen for quite some time yet.


----------



## DennisLJacob

So far I haven't found any reference to HDMI cables made by Gefen. Not being up on all the standards and requirements for UHD 4k, I'd like to ask if this cable's specifications meet the current standards. Here the cable link:

https://www.gefen.com/product/hdmi-20-locking-cable-m-m-6-feet-CAB-HD-LCK-06MM

I've used Gefen's older version 4k HDMI Toolbox matrix switching box. Though my current unit doesn't pass the UHD signals. So I'm upgrading to a new AV prepro and doing away with the switching needs. I'm looking at these for short cables in the 2 m lengths. Or if someone has a better option I'm all ears. I do like the screw lock feature, though not all of my equipment can utilize the screw locking. Or should I just go to Blue Jeans and be happy?

Thanks,


----------



## TrendSetterX

DennisLJacob said:


> So far I haven't found any reference to HDMI cables made by Gefen. Not being up on all the standards and requirements for UHD 4k, I'd like to ask if this cable's specifications meet the current standards. Here the cable link:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gefen.com/product/hdmi-20-locking-cable-m-m-6-feet-CAB-HD-LCK-06MM
> 
> 
> 
> I've used Gefen's older version 4k HDMI Toolbox matrix switching box. Though my current unit doesn't pass the UHD signals. So I'm upgrading to a new AV prepro and doing away with the switching needs. I'm looking at these for short cables in the 2 m lengths. Or if someone has a better option I'm all ears. I do like the screw lock feature, though not all of my equipment can utilize the screw locking. Or should I just go to Blue Jeans and be happy?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,


Or just go with some Monoprice certified cables for $3 and have the same performance as BJC’s $30 cables...


----------



## Otto Pylot

DennisLJacob said:


> So far I haven't found any reference to HDMI cables made by Gefen. Not being up on all the standards and requirements for UHD 4k, I'd like to ask if this cable's specifications meet the current standards. Here the cable link:
> 
> https://www.gefen.com/product/hdmi-20-locking-cable-m-m-6-feet-CAB-HD-LCK-06MM
> 
> I've used Gefen's older version 4k HDMI Toolbox matrix switching box. Though my current unit doesn't pass the UHD signals. So I'm upgrading to a new AV prepro and doing away with the switching needs. I'm looking at these for short cables in the 2 m lengths. Or if someone has a better option I'm all ears. I do like the screw lock feature, though not all of my equipment can utilize the screw locking. Or should I just go to Blue Jeans and be happy?
> 
> Thanks,



At 6', I just used the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and I didn't pay $30 for the copper-based cables. The screw locking is cool but if you've planned your run carefully, and have room for a little service loop at the connector end, you don't need them.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Something I noticed while looking at the Monoprice website and the specifications of the certified premium cables. They indicate support to 4k - 3840x2160. My new JVC can output full 4k at 4096x2160. Is this an issue that I need to be concerned with? Or they are the same and forgot about it. The projector can be setup to output the 4096 using the full size chip output on to a larger screen format. What do you guys think?


----------



## DennisLJacob

Anybody know what the differences are between the Monoprice Ultra Slim Certified Premium Product # 34206 and the non-ultra slim Certified Premium Product # 34212 HDMI cables? I can see the later cable is thicker, and I believe it has larger (lower number) gage wire. But does that make any difference in performance? Or is the bigger difference in the ultra thin, is lighter and puts less strain on the HDMI sockets when inserted into the components?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24187


----------



## Otto Pylot

DennisLJacob said:


> Something I noticed while looking at the Monoprice website and the specifications of the certified premium cables. They indicate support to 4k - 3840x2160. My new JVC can output full 4k at 4096x2160. Is this an issue that I need to be concerned with? Or they are the same and forgot about it. The projector can be setup to output the 4096 using the full size chip output on to a larger screen format. What do you guys think?



3840x2160 is 4k. 4096x2160 is UHD. I wouldn't worry about it. If you can set the output resolution then just try it. It can't hurt. I don't have any issues with BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and UHD source material.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Otto Pylot said:


> 3840x2160 is 4k. 4096x2160 is UHD. I wouldn't worry about it. If you can set the output resolution then just try it. It can't hurt. I don't have any issues with BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and UHD source material.


Thanks Otto, you seem to be the go to guy regarding these cable issues. Do you have a preference on the longer fiber optic cables from Ruipro vs. Monoprice? At what length would you switch to fiber optic cables?


----------



## DennisLJacob

I read Joe's comments about "active" fiber optic and "hybrid" fiber optic cable from Ruipro. When I go to Ruipro's website, I find it to minimalist and lacking of information. I don't see a choice for identifying the active vs. hybrid. What am I missing? I'm ready to order some long cables and want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing.


----------



## TrendSetterX

DennisLJacob said:


> I read Joe's comments about "active" fiber optic and "hybrid" fiber optic cable from Ruipro. When I go to Ruipro's website, I find it to minimalist and lacking of information. I don't see a choice for identifying the active vs. hybrid. What am I missing? I'm ready to order some long cables and want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing.


Active and Hybrid are both active and use the same “active” components.
Hybrid just means it includes copper conductor for returning ARC from the display back to the audio device.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> 3840x2160 is 4k. 4096x2160 is UHD.


Incorrect.
You have it backwards. UHD = faux/fake 4K = 3840x2160 instead of the full 4096


----------



## Otto Pylot

DennisLJacob said:


> I read Joe's comments about "active" fiber optic and "hybrid" fiber optic cable from Ruipro. When I go to Ruipro's website, I find it to minimalist and lacking of information. I don't see a choice for identifying the active vs. hybrid. What am I missing? I'm ready to order some long cables and want to make sure I'm ordering the right thing.


First of all, for full disclosure  my cable runs are all under 10' so I don't need or use hybrid fiber cables. That being said, the unofficial "magical" cable length for 4k HDR seems to be around the 25' maximum certification length for passive copper-based cables. Anything longer than that a hybrid fiber cable seems to be the most reliable as reported by users here on AVS.

From the Ruipro site: _The HDMI Fiber cable is a male to male cable and directional, a SOURCE plug for connecting HDMI Blu-ray, Set Top Box etc. and a DISPLAY plug to connect a HDMI device TV, Cinema Projector etc. Supports HDMI 2.0, maximum data rate of 18.2Gbps, is light weight, flexible and ultra small bending radius (30mm) *hybrid* cable. With our advanced optical engine embedded, this HDMI Hybrid Cable provides full HDMI signal integrity. Plug and play, and no external power is required!. Low Power Consumption: 250mW (max).(Power extracted from HDMI source)
_

The info above is for the 12m cable so go back and read the cable description carefully for the size you want to order. If you don't order directly from Ruipro, then you may be able to order a hybrid fiber cable (active) from The Media Factory which I believe is where Joe is from.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Incorrect.
> You have it backwards. UHD = faux/fake 4K = 3840x2160 instead of the full 4096


My bad  4k is the professional production and cinema standard (4096x2160) and UHD is consumer display and broadcast standard (3840x2160). The terms do get used interchangeably by the tv mfrs and others which even confuses us old-timers from time to time. Thanks for catching that.


----------



## DennisLJacob

Thanks guys I appreciate the quick replies. This helped me a lot.


----------



## loganross

I am using the FiBRR Ultra Pro 50’ fiber optic cable to connect my JVC projector on the other side of the room. It has been rock solid, including for 4K HDR. I think it’s the Rupro I had before hand, but I had issues with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## m0j0

I am running a 20 ft long HDMI cable from KabelDirekt and it has no problems running UHD/HDR 4:2:2 at 10 bit. Great deal for 12.99!


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI88YCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

m0j0 said:


> I am running a 20 ft long HDMI cable from KabelDirekt and it has no problems running UHD/HDR 4:2:2 at 10 bit. Great deal for 12.99!
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI88YCC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



At 20' you shouldn't have any issues with a copper-based cable, especially if it's well made or a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified by an ATC). Don't need to spend a lot of money for runs under 25'. It's the runs that are longer that folks will probably need to go to hybrid fiber for 4k HDR. The KabelDirekt cable is not certified but if it works, that's all that matters.


----------



## Joe Fernand

'I read Joe's comments about "active" fiber optic and "hybrid" fiber optic cable from Ruipro. When I go to Ruipro's website, I find it to minimalist and lacking of information. I don't see a choice for identifying the active vs. hybrid. What am I missing? ' - my bad. RuiPro use Hybrid Fibre whilst other manufacturers use 'Active Fibre'.

Active Fibre - often come with a two piece connector, micro HDMI attached to the fibre cable plus a snap on USB powered full size HDMI dongle. 

Hybrid Fibre - has a full size connector and retains copper cores to carry the HDMI Comms (HDCP, EDID etc) which in our testing means less time to handshake and less problems integrating with some kit combinations.

Joe


----------



## Clou_dek

So I have a problem with the X700 and the PS4 Pro, sometimes after watching/playing some HDR content or going back to the menu after a movie (with the X700 in this case) I'm getting white dots artifacts all over the screen they usually go away by unplagging the Receiver from the wall (both devices are plugged to a denon x3400h), I was having the same issue of these white dots even when I was playing with the ps4 directly connected to the TV (a Sony X930E), so I bought some fancy cables from KabelDirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227703&s=gateway&sr=8-13).
Result? Yep, still getting those white artifacts.
Now I'm buying this true premium certified 2.0 HDMI cable always from Kabeldirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227963&s=gateway&sr=8-16), which has the damn holographic sticker on the package.
I really hope this will fix my issue once for all. Will keep you updated.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimmix93 said:


> So I have a problem with the X700 and the PS4 Pro, sometimes after watching/playing some HDR content or going back to the menu after a movie (with the X700 in this case) I'm getting white dots artifacts all over the screen they usually go away by unplagging the Receiver from the wall (both devices are plugged to a denon x3400h), I was having the same issue of these white dots even when I was playing with the ps4 directly connected to the TV (a Sony X930E), so I bought some fancy cables from KabelDirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227703&s=gateway&sr=8-13).
> Result? Yep, still getting those white artifacts.
> Now I'm buying this true premium certified 2.0 HDMI cable always from Kabeldirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227963&s=gateway&sr=8-16), which has the damn holographic sticker on the package.
> I really hope this will fix my issue once for all. Will keep you updated.



"Unplugging the receiver from the wall" ? If you're cable connection is terminated at a wall plate, and then going to your receiver, that could be your problem. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified with the QR label) is about as good as you can get but it is not a 100% guarantee to work in your system. Bend radius, HDMI chipset versions at source/sink, cable installation, total cable run, etc all play a big part in a successful cable run.


The most reliable connection is source to sink, with no adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Kabeldirekt over prices their cables btw. You can get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable from various mfrs for probably less money.


The "damn holographic sticker" is the consumer's only guarantee that the cable was actually tested and certified by an ATC.


How long is your run?


----------



## Clou_dek

Otto Pylot said:


> jimmix93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I have a problem with the X700 and the PS4 Pro, sometimes after watching/playing some HDR content or going back to the menu after a movie (with the X700 in this case) I'm getting white dots artifacts all over the screen they usually go away by unplagging the Receiver from the wall (both devices are plugged to a denon x3400h), I was having the same issue of these white dots even when I was playing with the ps4 directly connected to the TV (a Sony X930E), so I bought some fancy cables from KabelDirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227703&s=gateway&sr=8-13).
> Result? Yep, still getting those white artifacts.
> Now I'm buying this true premium certified 2.0 HDMI cable always from Kabeldirekt (https://www.amazon.co.uk/KabelDirek...ldirekt+hdmi&qid=1556227963&s=gateway&sr=8-16), which has the damn holographic sticker on the package.
> I really hope this will fix my issue once for all. Will keep you updated.
> 
> 
> 
> "Unplugging the receiver from the wall" ? If you're cable connection is terminated at a wall plate, and then going to your receiver, that could be your problem. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified with the QR label) is about as good as you can get but it is not a 100% guarantee to work in your system. Bend radius, HDMI chipset versions at source/sink, cable installation, total cable run, etc all play a big part in a successful cable run.
> 
> The most reliable connection is source to sink, with no adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Kabeldirekt over prices their cables btw. You can get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable from various mfrs for probably less money.
> 
> The "damn holographic sticker" is the consumer's only guarantee that the cable was actually tested and certified by an ATC.
> 
> How long is your run?
Click to expand...

Run from the receiver to the TV? 6fts. Here we have these prices for the certified premium cables, not possible to find trustable cables (certified ones) under 15 euros per 6fts.
Power connections are these:
Wall plate - Power Strip (5 spots or so) - every single device connected to a single spot to that strip (receiver included).

It's a simple connection through a plastic duct. Into that duct there are passing three cables, one hdmi (from av rec. to tv), one cable antenna and the power cable for the TV. No cable are longer more than 6 fts in my connections and no heavy bends are made.

By the way I noticed that this issue was happening when I was needing the full bandwidth of a hdmi 2.0 connection, for example when using the RGB 4:4:4 Chroma at 4K/60Hz, which needs 17.82Gbps, even when you stay at the home menu of the X700 player you need that bandwidth since it's a 4:2:0 RGB signal (4K/60Hz), correct me if I'm wrong. That's why I'm going for the HDMI cable way, I was thinking about a failure of the TV but I need to test this issue with a certified cable first.

Sorry for my basic english 😉


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimmix93 said:


> Run from the receiver to the TV? 6fts. Here in Italy we have these prices for the certified premium cables, not possible to find trustable cables (certified ones) under 15 euros per 6fts.
> Power connections are these:
> Wall plate - Power Strip (5 spots or so) - every single device connected to a single spot to that strip (receiver included).
> 
> It's a simple connection through a plastic duct. Into that duct there are passing three cables, one hdmi (from av rec. to tv), one cable antenna and the power cable for the TV. No cable are longer more than 6 fts in my connections and no heavy bends are made.
> 
> By the way I noticed that this issue was happening when I was needing the full bandwidth of a hdmi 2.0 connection, for example when using the RGB 4:4:4 Chroma at 4K/60Hz, which needs 17.82Gbps, even when you stay at the home menu of the X700 player you need that bandwidth since it's a 4:2:0 RGB signal (4K/60Hz), correct me if I'm wrong. That's why I'm going for the HDMI cable way, I was thinking about a failure of the TV but I need to test this issue with a certified cable first.
> 
> Sorry for my basic english 😉



Most movies (blu-ray) are mastered in 4:2:0. 4:4:4 is usually what you would use if you have a computer connected to your tv and have labeled the HDMI input as PC. I use YCbCr at 4:2:0 and have no issues with UHD/BD discs or streaming SDR/HDR material. 



With a 6', direct connection you shouldn't have any issues with really any well made, High Speed HDMI cable. Certification just shows that the cable was tested and certified by the HDMI.org approved certification program.


----------



## Clou_dek

This is becoming more and more mental 

So even with these new HDMI certified cables from kabeldirekt I'm getting sparkles and cuts on the video signal, at absolutely random time. I noticed that when one device (most of the time its the X700 player) start the the sparkles then also the other devices gets them too. So there must be something bad with the receiver or the TV. Receiver it's ok, I mean, can the receiver show these sparkles randomly throug the day? I don't think so.
As for the TV, I have all the devices attached to the X3400H which is connected to the HDMI 3 (ARC) of the TV. I starting to think that the ARC is causing the issue, so while I was getting tons of sparkles I switched to the HDMI 2 input of the TV (full 2.0 bandwidth but with no ARC) and the picture was ok. Switched again to the HDMI 3 of the TV and was getting those sparkles.
Rebooting completely the TV fixed the issue. TV is a X930E.

Can the increased bandwidth for the ARC function to cause this issue? Or can the the have some type of bugged HDMI port that is causing the issue? Do you suggest me to contact the sony service (TV still in warranty)?


----------



## TrendSetterX

jimmix93 said:


> This is becoming more and more mental
> 
> 
> 
> So even with these new HDMI certified cables from kabeldirekt I'm getting sparkles and cuts on the video signal, at absolutely random time. I noticed that when one device (most of the time its the X700 player) start the the sparkles then also the other devices gets them too. So there must be something bad with the receiver or the TV. Receiver it's ok, I mean, can the receiver show these sparkles randomly throug the day? I don't think so.
> 
> As for the TV, I have all the devices attached to the X3400H which is connected to the HDMI 3 (ARC) of the TV. I starting to think that the ARC is causing the issue, so while I was getting tons of sparkles I switched to the HDMI 2 input of the TV (full 2.0 bandwidth but with no ARC) and the picture was ok. Switched again to the HDMI 3 of the TV and was getting those sparkles.
> 
> Rebooting completely the TV fixed the issue. TV is a X930E.
> 
> 
> 
> Can the increased bandwidth for the ARC function to cause this issue? Or can the the have some type of bugged HDMI port that is causing the issue? Do you suggest me to contact the sony service (TV still in warranty)?


Have you moved the x700 to the hdmi Input on the denon closest to the hdmi output? Are you sure you have all video processing disabled in the denon?


----------



## Clou_dek

TrendSetterX said:


> Have you moved the x700 to the hdmi Input on the denon closest to the hdmi output? Are you sure you have all video processing disabled in the denon?


Yes to both questions, after a while I'm getting random sparkles. Randomly every some time I change the video input for some reason (switching from a TV app to the denon input for example).


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimmix93 said:


> Yes to both questions, after a while I'm getting random sparkles. Randomly every some time I change the video input for some reason (switching from a TV app to the denon input for example).



ARC doesn't require any more bandwidth. It's just an option on the HDMI chipset controller. Are the cables fitting snugly in the HDMI input(s) and not stressed? Sparkles is indicative of either a bad HDMI cable (which is probably not your case), stress on the HDMI input resulting in a sketchy connection, or a setting on the receiver.


Have you connected your devices directly to the tv bypassing the Denon to rule out the Denon?


If the issue occurs only when you switch inputs, it could be a CEC issue. That may be a stretch but I'd disable ARC/CEC on all of your devices and just see how it goes using the individual remotes as a test. 



If 6' is your total length, and you're using Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) from KabelDirekt it's probably not the cable. Did the cables come with the QR label?


----------



## Clou_dek

Otto Pylot said:


> jimmix93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes to both questions, after a while I'm getting random sparkles. Randomly every some time I change the video input for some reason (switching from a TV app to the denon input for example).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ARC doesn't require any more bandwidth. It's just an option on the HDMI chipset controller. Are the cables fitting snugly in the HDMI input(s) and not stressed? Sparkles is indicative of either a bad HDMI cable (which is probably not your case), stress on the HDMI input resulting in a sketchy connection, or a setting on the receiver.
> 
> Have you connected your devices directly to the tv bypassing the Denon to rule out the Denon?
> 
> If the issue occurs only when you switch inputs, it could be a CEC issue. That may be a stretch but I'd disable ARC/CEC on all of your devices and just see how it goes using the individual remotes as a test.
> 
> If 6' is your total length, and you're using Premium High Speed HDMI cables (QR label) from KabelDirekt it's probably not the cable. Did the cables come with the QR label?
Click to expand...

Ok, so the cables are not bended, but at this point I will try tomorrow to let them free from clips and cable managment plastic tube, so I will verify even that possibility. The point is that the issue does not happen always, I have these new cables from 2 days and just today I got the issue, just like the other ones, randomly through the day. If it really is a bending problem then the issues would be always present once it happen.

The issues was happening too when connecting the PS4 pro directly to the HDMI 3 of the TV, never tried to use another port because at that time I choosed to play always in YUV as a fix for that issue, instead of selecting AUTO choice.

On every device the ARC/CEC function was disabled from the beginning, but I need the ARC on the denon since I'm using the dolby digital + audio codec from netflix built in app.

Yes, I'm using the same 3 cables, they were packaged one by one with 3 different QR codes, that I correctly scanned with the HDMI Premium app.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimmix93 said:


> Ok, so the cables are not bended, but at this point I will try tomorrow to let them free from clips and cable managment plastic tube, so I will verify even that possibility.
> 
> The issues was happening too when connecting the PS4 pro directly to the HDMI 3 of the TV, never tried to use another port because at that time I choosed to play always in YUV as a fix for that issue, instead of selecting AUTO choice.
> 
> On every device the ARC/CEC function was disabled from the beginning, but I need the ARC on the denon since I'm using the dolby digital + audio codec from netflix built in app.
> 
> Yes, I'm using the same 3 cables, they were packaged one by one with 3 different QR codes, that I correctly scanned with the HDMI Premium app.



Ok, the cables are probably not the issue. Do try to make as direct of a connection as possible to ensure that there is no undo stress on the HDMI input.


ARC basically has the same audio capabilities as optical so I doubt if you'll hear the difference. Try it.


It you are trying to use 4:4:4 chroma you may have to label the input as PC. But if that's an ARC input, I don't know if you can do that or not.


This does sound more like a setting issue between your devices and not the cables, or you have a faulty HDMI input (ARC).


----------



## Clou_dek

Otto Pylot said:


> jimmix93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, so the cables are not bended, but at this point I will try tomorrow to let them free from clips and cable managment plastic tube, so I will verify even that possibility.
> 
> The issues was happening too when connecting the PS4 pro directly to the HDMI 3 of the TV, never tried to use another port because at that time I choosed to play always in YUV as a fix for that issue, instead of selecting AUTO choice.
> 
> On every device the ARC/CEC function was disabled from the beginning, but I need the ARC on the denon since I'm using the dolby digital + audio codec from netflix built in app.
> 
> Yes, I'm using the same 3 cables, they were packaged one by one with 3 different QR codes, that I correctly scanned with the HDMI Premium app.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, the cables are probably not the issue. Do try to make as direct of a connection as possible to ensure that there is no undo stress on the HDMI input.
> 
> 
> ARC basically has the same audio capabilities as optical so I doubt if you'll hear the difference. Try it.
> 
> 
> It you are trying to use 4:4:4 chroma you may have to label the input as PC. But if that's an ARC input, I don't know if you can do that or not.
> 
> 
> This does sound more like a setting issue between your devices and not the cables, or you have a faulty HDMI input (ARC).
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input Otto, as always 😉

I can't label the port, and I'm thinking too to have a faulty hdmi port, besides of ARC functionality.
I already contacted the sony support to receive an "official" reply to the issue. Fortunately TV still in warranty.


----------



## Clou_dek

jimmix93 said:


> Thank you for your input Otto, as always 😉
> 
> I can't label the port, and I'm thinking too to have a faulty hdmi port, besides of ARC functionality.
> I already contacted the sony support to receive an "official" reply to the issue. Fortunately TV still in warranty.


Ok, I think we had a happy end here, after changing the cables it happened only one time, after changing some HDMI-CEC functions over Bravia Sync menu on my X390E (I disabled everything aside from the main function of HDMI control). The issue is gone.

I'm using KabelDirekt certified premium cables, with the sticker on the package.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jimmix93 said:


> Ok, I think we had a happy end here, after changing the cables it happened only one time, after changing some HDMI-CEC functions over Bravia Sync menu on my X390E (I disabled everything aside from the main function of HDMI control). The issue is gone.
> 
> I'm using KabelDirekt certified premium cables, with the sticker on the package.



That's good to hear. Post back if any issues occur. On the Sony, I do believe that HDMI Control is CEC.


----------



## RamGuy

Anyone have some cables from BestBuy that they are certain to work with [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? I have Monoprice cables and they are really hit and miss. The ones in the bedroom are working okay with the Apple TV 4K connected to Samsung HW-N960 connected to my LG OLED65C7V when using 4:4:4, but I have the same setup in the living room and the same cables is having difficulties in the living room.

I need cables that are about 6-9 feet. Don't really care about the looks of the cable as long as it's actually working with [email protected], 4:4:4, Deep Colour without issues..


----------



## Dreamliner

RamGuy said:


> Anyone have some cables from BestBuy that they are certain to work with [email protected], 4:4:4 chroma, and Deep Color? I have Monoprice cables and they are really hit and miss. The ones in the bedroom are working okay with the Apple TV 4K connected to Samsung HW-N960 connected to my LG OLED65C7V when using 4:4:4, but I have the same setup in the living room and the same cables is having difficulties in the living room.
> 
> I need cables that are about 6-9 feet. Don't really care about the looks of the cable as long as it's actually working with [email protected], 4:4:4, Deep Colour without issues..


What Monoprice cables do you have? I only recommend these cables. They are Certified Premium and have worked perfectly for me.


----------



## MonKENy

*Cable Reccomendations*

I am moving in w/my Partner. We will be using for the time being her TCL 55S405 55-Inch 4K Ultra HD Roku Smart LED TV (2017 Model) as the primary display.

We might bring my LG Electronics OLED65C7P 65-Inch 4K later but maybe not while we are at the apartment. (I dont feel like having an apartment complex watch me bring a $3k 65inch TV in. Doubt anything would happen but Im weird about strangers knowing what I own. Love the irony of blasting it to the whole world on the internet though.)

We have a Yamaha RX-V681BL 7.2-Channel receiver 

Connections are as follows.

Nintendo Switch
PS4 Pro
Sony UBP-X700 4K Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player
PC w/ 1080Ti (possible upgraded to AMD RX5700 or better in future)

Would like to be able to ARC back the TV and run everything of course at full specs.

Cable runs will all be within 10'-15'
Would like to be able to be Dolby Vision ready

What do you all recommend to be able to get the current and "future proof" most out of the stuff I listed? Plus from whats known about things coming be able to integrate new devices.

She is a Movie buff and still buys disks, so being able to keep up with that is huge. I and the 2 boys are Gamers (Hence the upgrades coming on the PC's)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The ‘stuff’ doesn’t matter too much - the format you want to support is all that matters along with the length of cable required.

Any ‘High Speed’ Certified cable will be ideal at the length indicated.

Future proofing means being able to easily replace whatever cable you install now.

Joe


----------



## MonKENy

Joe Fernand said:


> The ‘stuff’ doesn’t matter too much - the format you want to support is all that matters along with the length of cable required.
> 
> Any ‘High Speed’ Certified cable will be ideal at the length indicated.
> 
> Future proofing means being able to easily replace whatever cable you install now.
> 
> Joe


These cables 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...7611&cjevent=0ef0ea8db16611e9807202010a1c0e0b

Say they are rated at 18 Gbps but this data sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zwHWc0do4ppk7Vm5I5P1p3DlCA0kSXN1OxRFs1UsWwc/edit#gid=0

Says for dolby vision its a 24-48 Gbps for 12bit per channel.

Will I actually need to hit that any time soon? Even if I dont is there a recommended cable that can that is relatively affordable (less that $30 each)? 

I dont know. Just tell me what to buy lol.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The cable you link to, like any Certified cable, will be fine for your requirements.

Joe


----------



## MonKENy

Joe Fernand said:


> The cable you link to, like any Certified cable, will be fine for your requirements.
> 
> Joe


I go with that then. Thank you!


----------



## Otto Pylot

MonKENy said:


> I go with that then. Thank you!


Yep. As Joe indicated, any Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work just fine for 4k HDR under 25'. Just make sure the cable has the QR label for authenticity. Be mindful of bend radius because you don't want the cable to be straining on the HDMI input.


----------



## cemo62

Hello friends which one is best for *50 feet? (15 meter)* I need cable for UHD 4K 

*RUIPRO 
*https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-4K60H...&s=gateway&sprefix=ruipro,aps,596&sr=8-3&th=1

or

*WIREWORLD SPHERE HDMI 

*

http://www.emavihifi.com/web_20117_1/product_tree_focus.aspx?category_id=966&product_id=9953


----------



## Joe Fernand

Same reply as in the other thread you asked the question in 

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

cemo62 said:


> Hello friends which one is best for *50 feet? (15 meter)* I need cable for UHD 4K
> 
> *RUIPRO
> *https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-4K60H...&s=gateway&sprefix=ruipro,aps,596&sr=8-3&th=1
> 
> or
> 
> *WIREWORLD SPHERE HDMI
> 
> *
> 
> http://www.emavihifi.com/web_20117_1/product_tree_focus.aspx?category_id=966&product_id=9953


I haven't seen your other post but most of the reports here about the Ruipro4k have been very positive. There are other factors that come into play in addition to the cable for a successful connection.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

I could only find cables that performed to a maximum of [email protected] HDR12 4:2:2 Chroma. And for me the cheapest cable to give me this performance was the 27Gbps cables. Here are my results below:

18Gbps: [email protected] HDR10 4:2:0 Chroma
27Gbps: [email protected] HDR12 4:2:2 Chroma
48Gbps: [email protected] HDR12 4:2:2 Chroma

Certified cables can only be certified up to a maximum of 18Gbps because that's the maximum speed that the HDMI.org certification program tests cables up to

Hope this helps someone. Knowing this definitely would have saved me months of trial and error buying 18Gbps cables from various suppliers and wondering why none of them worked as well as I'd thought they should.


----------



## Ratman

LOL! 
I bet a link will soon follow to your website for a "27Gbps" cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> LOL!
> I bet a link will soon follow to your website for a "27Gbps" cable.


This guy has been busy this morning pushing the magical "27Gbps" cable. I wonder where else he'll pop up.


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

Hi again, I've found the answer to my question now.

HDMI 2.0 ports max out at 22Gbps and HDMI 2.0 cables max out at 18Gbps, that's why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps both gave the same improved performance when I tested them.

I knew there must be a simple explanation, but it looks like we'll all have to wait for HDMI 2.1 ports to become common place in our TV's and graphics cards before we can take advantage of all of the increased speeds offered, and by that time I'm sure we'll all be discussing HDMI 2.2 LOL !


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> Hi again, I've found the answer to my question now.
> 
> HDMI 2.0 ports max out at 22Gbps and HDMI 2.0 cables max out at 18Gbps, that's why the 27Gbps and 48Gbps both gave the same improved performance when I tested them.
> 
> I knew there must be a simple explanation, but it looks like we'll all have to wait for HDMI 2.1 ports to become common place in our TV's and graphics cards before we can take advantage of all of the increased speeds offered, and by that time I'm sure we'll all be discussing HDMI 2.2 LOL !


 There appears to be a similar discussion by another "poster" on the AVForums site, which is the UK equivalent of AVS. Hmmm.......


----------



## Ratman

Wait for the link(s).


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*What Picture to expect from your HDMI Cable*

No links here, just accurate information. And that accurate and fully tested information is as follows:

All 18Gbps Certified High Speed HDMI cables were the worst performing cables in my tests, only ever achieving: [email protected] HDR10 4:2:0 Chroma.
All 27Gbps HDMI cables achieved: [email protected] HDR12 4:2:2 Chroma.
All 48Gbps HDMI cables also achieved: [email protected] HDR12 4:2:2 Chroma.

Disclaimers:
All of these tests were performed with an equal setup linking a very high performance PC to a high performance OLED TV, and it was only the cable that was changed.
All of these tests were conducted using equipment fitted with HDMI 2.0 ports, so it is highly likley that the 27Gbps and 48Gbps would achieve these higher speeds when used with equipment fitted with HDMI 2.1 ports.

#Never any links, just accurate and dependable information from a fully qualified design engineer working in Formula One


----------



## HDMI_4K_60Hz

*27Gbps Performance Screenshot*

And this is a picture of my computer now running at 4K 60Hz HDR12 with 4:2:2 Chroma which it achieves using a cheaper 27Gbps HDMI cable, but it will also achieve this when operated with a 48Gbps cable too 









https://ibb.co/7CHh336

Such a shame all HDMI 2.0 ports don't allow speeds past 22Gbps else the 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma picture I want would be possible on my screen and that would be EPIC!


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDMI_4K_60Hz said:


> And this is a picture of my computer now running at 4K 60Hz HDR12 with 4:2:2 Chroma which it achieves using a cheaper 27Gbps HDMI cable, but it will also achieve this when operated with a 48Gbps cable too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://ibb.co/7CHh336
> 
> Such a shame all HDMI 2.0 ports don't allow speeds past 22Gbps else the 4K 60Hz HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma picture I want would be possible on my screen and that would be EPIC!


Please post a link to your 27Gbps cable so we can check it out or tell us how 27Gbps was confirmed. What kind of display device are you using, tv or monitor?


----------



## Glenee

cemo62 said:


> Hello friends which one is best for *50 feet? (15 meter)* I need cable for UHD 4K
> 
> *RUIPRO
> *https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-4K60H...&s=gateway&sprefix=ruipro,aps,596&sr=8-3&th=1
> 
> or
> 
> *WIREWORLD SPHERE HDMI
> 
> *
> 
> http://www.emavihifi.com/web_20117_1/product_tree_focus.aspx?category_id=966&product_id=9953



Either one if it works. I can guarantee you are going to take it up the GiGi with the Wireworld cable. Overpriced and most likely manufacture in the same factory as all the rest.


----------



## Ratman

Glenee said:


> I can guarantee you are going to take it up the GiGi ...


Sorry this is off-topic, but it made made me laugh out loud!
I haven't heard the term "up the (or your) gigi" since I was a kid. My Dad used that word all of the time. And, the only person I've ever heard use it!


----------



## Desisuperman

Hi it's been a few years since my last TV purchase and this thread became very useful.


I'm upgrading to a Samsung 75" Q80R and once again I have to reconsider the length of the HDMI cable going to my receiver.


Have any developments been made in the last 3 yeas in this field? I need a 20-25 ft HDMI cable that can pass thru a [email protected] HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma signal. 


I have used this in the past 


Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YCbCr 4:4:4, 15 Ft


with success and was wondering if a 20-25 ft cable will serve me just as well.


Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> Hi it's been a few years since my last TV purchase and this thread became very useful.
> 
> 
> I'm upgrading to a Samsung 75" Q80R and once again I have to reconsider the length of the HDMI cable going to my receiver.
> 
> 
> Have any developments been made in the last 3 yeas in this field? I need a 20-25 ft HDMI cable that can pass thru a [email protected] HDR10 4:4:4 Chroma signal.
> 
> 
> I have used this in the past
> 
> 
> Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YCbCr 4:4:4, 15 Ft
> 
> 
> with success and was wondering if a 20-25 ft cable will serve me just as well.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified by HDMI.org with the QR label for authenticity) go up to 25' max (I have seen some Premium cables at 30'). The longer the distance though, even with certified cables, you increase your chances of developing issues. In theory, a Premium High Speed cable up to 25' should perform the same but all you can do is try because there is more to a successful connection than the data pipe (cable). You could try a 10m (30') hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k) but they are expensive. However, they've received some very positive reviews from actual users here. They are well built and have an excellent bend radius.


----------



## Desisuperman

Otto Pylot said:


> Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified by HDMI.org with the QR label for authenticity) go up to 25' max (I have seen some Premium cables at 30'). The longer the distance though, even with certified cables, you increase your chances of developing issues. In theory, a Premium High Speed cable up to 25' should perform the same but all you can do is try because there is more to a successful connection than the data pipe (cable). You could try a 10m (30') hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k) but they are expensive. However, they've received some very positive reviews from actual users here. They are well built and have an excellent bend radius.


Perfect. I'm on the fence with going with a Sony X950G because of it's price point and the fact that it has Dolby Vision. Will a 20-25ft cable present any issues with Dolby Vision?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Desisuperman said:


> Perfect. I'm on the fence with going with a Sony X950G because of it's price point and the fact that it has Dolby Vision. Will a 20-25ft cable present any issues with Dolby Vision?



Again, in theory no. A Premium High Speed cable should work. But you also need to consider the HDMI chipset versions at the source/sink ends and how the cable is installed (in-wall via a conduit, bend radius, etc). Keep in mind that passive cables at 25' length, even certified ones, have a thicker wire gauge which will reduce the bend radius. A tighter bend radius may result in increased strain on the HDMI input over time, which is no bueno. If you have easy access to the cable then finding one that will work with your setup is relatively easy. If you have plans on ever moving up to the HDMI 2.1 option sets, then a 25' Premium cable may not be sufficient. But until there are sources that require the 48Gbps bandwidth for the higher video standards of HDMI 2.1, HDMI 2.0 will be fine for 4k HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10, and HLG).


What ever you get, just lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation to make sure it meets your needs. Oh, and there are no 100% guarantees that a given cable, regardless of the marketing claims or product descriptions will work. It is still trial and error to a certain point, especially for 4k HDR at lengths over about 20'. That's why easy access to your cabling is almost a requirement now-a-days.


----------



## HDdoggy

I'm looking for a budget option from my PC to my new 4k TV. The shortest I might be able to get away with is 25', but 30' or 35' would give me some more flexibility on the run.

I'm considering one of the following:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427

Those are certified, but the 30' size seems to have less favorable reviews that I've seen there and on Amazon.

The second is: 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14471

That one is an active cable, the 35' length doesn't have a lot of reviews. 

I feel like it's a crapshoot either way. Any thoughts or opinions on which one might be better in the 30'+ length?


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDdoggy said:


> I'm looking for a budget option from my PC to my new 4k TV. The shortest I might be able to get away with is 25', but 30' or 35' would give me some more flexibility on the run.
> 
> I'm considering one of the following:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
> 
> Those are certified, but the 30' size seems to have less favorable reviews that I've seen there and on Amazon.
> 
> The second is:
> 
> https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14471
> 
> That one is an active cable, the 35' length doesn't have a lot of reviews.
> 
> I feel like it's a crapshoot either way. Any thoughts or opinions on which one might be better in the 30'+ length?



Certification for passive cables (Premium High Speed) is up to 25'. I have seen some Premium cables at the 30' but they are not that common, or they didn't used to be. The QR label that accompanies the Premium High Speed cable is your assurance that the cable is authentic.


The basic rule of thumb for 4k HDR is this:
For runs up to 25', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work just fine. Keep in mind that the longer the cable run is, the thicker the wire gauge will be. A thicker wire gauge results in loss of flexibility which may increase the strain on the HDMI input.
For runs longer than 25', a hybrid fiber cable is recommended (Ruipro4k) but they are expensive. The hybrid fiber cables are active.


HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables, copper-only or hybrid fiber, yet, so you won't see those cables certified by HDMI.org with the QR label.


You can try an active copper cable at 30' to see if that will meet your needs. Pushing 4k HDR over lengths longer than about 20' is still pretty much a crap shoot unless you go with a hybrid fiber cable because there are no 100% guarantees that any cable is going to work with any given setup, regardless of the cable mfr's claims or product descriptions. The Ruipro4k cables is mentioned a lot because the reviews by actual AVS users has been very positive.


----------



## Synomenon

Has anyone found thin HDMI cables that can pass 4k60 RGB 422?


My current TV is a 65" Samsung MU8000. This TV has one of those connect boxes that contain all of the TV's ports then itself connects to the TV through a single cable. This has made it easy to use these thick, 4k60 RGB 422, supporting cables and hiding everything out of site.


Upgrading to a LG 65" OLED which does not have one of these connect boxes. All of the ports are on the side of the TV or on the back. So I'm going to have to replace that single connect box cable to the TV with an individual cable from each AV component.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Synomenon said:


> Has anyone found thin HDMI cables that can pass 4k60 RGB 422?
> 
> 
> My current TV is a 65" Samsung MU8000. This TV has one of those connect boxes that contain all of the TV's ports then itself connects to the TV through a single cable. This has made it easy to use these thick, 4k60 RGB 422, supporting cables and hiding everything out of site.
> 
> 
> Upgrading to a LG 65" OLED which does not have one of these connect boxes. All of the ports are on the side of the TV or on the back. So I'm going to have to replace that single connect box cable to the TV with an individual cable from each AV component.



How long is your cable run? Are you using the LG as the hub of your system instead of a receiver? 



Depending on the cable length, the best you can currently do is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label for authenticity) which is certified by HDMI.org to meet all HDMI 2.0 option sets. The cable is certified for up to 25' but shorter lengths than that are best. For runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k) is recommended. However, they are expensive and if you're using the LG as the hub of your system, that can get very expensive quickly with multiple cables.


Heavy gauge cables (thick) can put undo strain on the HDMI inputs due to the weight because bend radius is diminished, so the thinner the cable the better. Hybrid fiber cables are active and have an excellent bend radius. You can also purchase active copper-only cables (just make sure they have the latest Spectra 7 chipsets) that will be thin like the hybrid fiber cables. However, any active cable, copper only or hybrid fiber can not be certified by HDMI.org so you will just have to go by the cable mfrs product description that they will work for your system. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time with all setups regardless of the mfrs claims.


----------



## Synomenon

Otto Pylot said:


> How long is your cable run? Are you using the LG as the hub of your system instead of a receiver?
> 
> 
> 
> Depending on the cable length, the best you can currently do is a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label for authenticity) which is certified by HDMI.org to meet all HDMI 2.0 option sets. The cable is certified for up to 25' but shorter lengths than that are best. For runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k) is recommended. However, they are expensive and if you're using the LG as the hub of your system, that can get very expensive quickly with multiple cables.
> 
> 
> Heavy gauge cables (thick) can put undo strain on the HDMI inputs due to the weight because bend radius is diminished, so the thinner the cable the better. Hybrid fiber cables are active and have an excellent bend radius. You can also purchase active copper-only cables (just make sure they have the latest Spectra 7 chipsets) that will be thin like the hybrid fiber cables. However, any active cable, copper only or hybrid fiber can not be certified by HDMI.org so you will just have to go by the cable mfrs product description that they will work for your system. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time with all setups regardless of the mfrs claims.


So do you have links to HDMI cables (that can pass 4k60 RGB 422?) that are sold in the USA?

I do have a receiver, but still have components that are directly connected to the TV via 6 to 8ft. cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Synomenon said:


> So do you have links to HDMI cables (that can pass 4k60 RGB 422?) that are sold in the USA?
> 
> I do have a receiver, but still have components that are directly connected to the TV via 6 to 8ft. cables.



At 8', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable should work. Monoprice would be a good place to start for Certified High Speed HDMI cables, of which there are quite a few to pick from. 



The term "Premium" is the official term by HDMI.org for cables that have been tested and certified to meet ALL HDMI 2.0 option sets. Any cable mfr can submit their cables to be certified so it's not specific to any one cable mfr. Just look for Premium High Speed. The cable packaging should also come with a QR label so you know it's authentic. An 8' certified cable shouldn't be too thick but you'll have to decide that for yourself if it will work in your setup without any drastic bending resulting in HDMI input strain. Just carefully read the specs to see if that will work and then give them a try.


Nobody can tell you that cable "x" will work for sure for your system so it's a bit of trial and error.



A hybrid fiber would also work at that distance but they would be a bit of an overkill for 8', not to mention expensive.


Most folks use the receiver as the hub of the system and the tv as just the display, so all connections go thru the receiver first and just the video is sent to the panel.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Synomenon - it would be good to understand where the AVR fits into your system and if ARC or eARC is an option between the TV and AVR for audio?

You could 'replace' the One Connect box with an HDMI Switch if you do need to retain the Source > TV connection for some of your Source devices and utilise the installed HDMI cable.

Joe


----------



## doctorwizz

Joe Fernand said:


> Synomenon - it would be good to understand where the AVR fits into your system and if ARC or eARC is an option between the TV and AVR for audio?
> 
> You could 'replace' the One Connect box with an HDMI Switch if you do need to retain the Source > TV connection for some of your Source devices and utilise the installed HDMI cable.
> 
> Joe


Samsung One connect box can not be removed. 
Edit: NVM he's getting a LG TV


----------



## Synomenon

Joe Fernand said:


> Synomenon - it would be good to understand where the AVR fits into your system and if ARC or eARC is an option between the TV and AVR for audio?
> 
> You could 'replace' the One Connect box with an HDMI Switch if you do need to retain the Source > TV connection for some of your Source devices and utilise the installed HDMI cable.
> 
> Joe


I guess all of this is moot. I found some fairly thin cables that should be able to do 4k-60Hz, YUV 4:4:4 with my ATV, PS4 and Ultra BD player. Comes in up to 8ft. lengths too. I'll just need to do some work on cable routing.


OT: Has anyone found HDMI "port savers" (really short HDMI extensions) that can actually pass through that 4k-60Hz, YUV 4:4:4 ?


----------



## AV_Integrated

Synomenon said:


> Has anyone found HDMI "port savers" (really short HDMI extensions) that can actually pass through that 4k-60Hz, YUV 4:4:4 ?


No. In fact I did some specific testing and asking about for wall plates which would allow for a quality 18Gb/s pass through. So, you could plug a computer in at the wall and run it up to a TV a few feet above it (commercial work). It was a complete disaster. Using Extron wall plates which are rated for 18Gb/s it simply didn't work reliably. I was able to get about 3 feet from the wall plate and 2 feet up to the display... that was it. Used an active 4K balancer, and got about 3 more feet. I then asked in various forums, including this one, and heard crickets in response.

I've spoken with Extron about making an active 4K wall plate. Just one which can regenerate the 4K signal like their current 4K balancer model HD-4K-Plus-101. If they built that into a wall plate, it would be ideal for many local display setups. I tested that balancer with a 15' cable on one side of it and a 12' cable on the other side, and it worked perfectly. Just not with a short F/F HDMI cable in between.

Would be great to hear differently from someone.


----------



## Jonas2

Synomenon said:


> OT: Has anyone found HDMI "port savers" (really short HDMI extensions) that can actually pass through that 4k-60Hz, YUV 4:4:4 ?



Yeah, I've never seen one that has actually made the claim to do this. Maybe they exist and don't work, but the ones I've ever seen have always been "quiet" on that subject..... I wonder why it's so tough to make one that works?


----------



## Otto Pylot

I think one of the issue with active wall plates (and active cables as well) is consistent current. Active cables don't require much current to keep the signal and chips going but 4k HDR seems to be very sensitive (at least anecdotally) to even minor fluctuations in current. If the HDMI "gods" would agree on a new chip design that offered a higher and tightly controlled current, some of the issues may go away. Active wall plates that actually worked would be a godsend.


----------



## Rysa_105

I use furutech cables in my setup, made in japan. I got them from japan, arrived by international mail. Having made in japan cables in my setup has been long time coming. I also ordered a furutech speaker cable spool later on and my entire speaker cabling 5.1.4 is furutech now. These hdmi cables just came in plastic packaging, with all japanese description, so if they had premium written somewhere i wouldn't know as i cant read jap., but i couldn't spot that yellow certification logo on the packaging, so i guess these cables are not certified. They all work fine, tested with 4k60 4:2:2, 12 bit (~17.8 gbps). 
I also have a couple of older hdmi cables from 4 or 5 years ago (different brands) and to my surprise they too worked with hdmi 2.0b features. None of my hdmi cables go over 10 ft. in length. Since i dont have higher length requirements, i have never looked into active. The furutechs are passive.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rysa_105 said:


> I use furutech cables in my setup, made in japan. I got them from japan, arrived by international mail. Having made in japan cables in my setup has been long time coming. I also ordered a furutech speaker cable spool later on and my entire speaker cabling 5.1.4 is furutech now. These hdmi cables just came in plastic packaging, with all japanese description, so if they had premium written somewhere i wouldn't know as i cant read jap., but i couldn't spot that yellow certification logo on the packaging, so i guess these cables are not certified. They all work fine, tested with 4k60 4:2:2, 12 bit (~17.8 gbps).
> I also have a couple of older hdmi cables from 4 or 5 years ago (different brands) and to my surprise they too worked with hdmi 2.0b features. None of my hdmi cables go over 10 ft. in length. Since i dont have higher length requirements, i have never looked into active. The furutechs are passive.



At 10', almost any well made cable will work. Active cables at that length are an overkill. That being said, I use the Ruipro4k cables at that length in my setup but they were given to me for short length testing purposes. I saw no difference in them from certified passive cables (BJC Premium High Speed cables). I think those of us who have short HDMI cable runs have better chances at achieving what we want/need to do than those with much longer runs.


Furutech cables are well made, non-certified cables and they certainly hit all the buzzwords that consumers love (nonmagnetic alpha silver plated conductors, nonmagnetic 24k gold plated alpha connector, etc etc etc). However, the bottom line is if they work, that's all that matters.


----------



## terminaldawn

Hello All,

I recently had an Amazon basics cable go bad on me (ps4 flickering issue), that I swapped out with another one, which seems to be working fine. However this experience has me questioning whether or not I should be upgrading my cables. 

According to https://www.avsforum.com/wordpress/best-hdmi-cables/ the best cable (i assume they mean for the money?) is the Amazon basics, which I am currently running on all my gear.

Here is what I am using, purchased in 2017 and appears to have the same specs minus the braided as this newer amazon cable. 


Are the cables I am using solid? 


In my research I am now seeing that premium certified cables are a thing now. Is this more of a peace of mind thing that they are more likely to work better or is there quality enhancement to these cables?

I should also note, that all of my hdmi runs are 10 ft or less.

Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

terminaldawn said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I recently had an Amazon basics cable go bad on me (ps4 flickering issue), that I swapped out with another one, which seems to be working fine. However this experience has me questioning whether or not I should be upgrading my cables.
> 
> According to https://www.avsforum.com/wordpress/best-hdmi-cables/ the best cable (i assume they mean for the money?) is the Amazon basics, which I am currently running on all my gear.
> 
> Here is what I am using, purchased in 2017 and appears to have the same specs minus the braided as this newer amazon cable.
> 
> 
> Are the cables I am using solid?
> 
> 
> In my research I am now seeing that premium certified cables are a thing now. Is this more of a peace of mind thing that they are more likely to work better or is there quality enhancement to these cables?
> 
> I should also note, that all of my hdmi runs are 10 ft or less.
> 
> Thanks!


Premium High Speed HDMI cables have been around for a couple of years now. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label for authenticity is the best you can get. They are certified by HDMI.org to meet all of the current HDMI 2.0 option sets. They are not specific to any one mfr so you can shop around for the best price (they aren't that expensive). Just look for the name "Premium" and the QR label. No cable is 100% guaranteed to work in all systems but at least the consumer knows that a Premium cable has been tested and certified by HDMI.org to meet current standards.

However, at 10', just about any High Speed HDMI cable should work but if you're gonna push 4k HDR, I'd replace your cable(s) with Premium ones.


----------



## terminaldawn

Otto Pylot said:


> Premium High Speed HDMI cables have been around for a couple of years now. A Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label for authenticity is the best you can get. They are certified by HDMI.org to meet all of the current HDMI 2.0 option sets. They are not specific to any one mfr so you can shop around for the best price (they aren't that expensive). Just look for the name "Premium" and the QR label. No cable is 100% guaranteed to work in all systems but at least the consumer knows that a Premium cable has been tested and certified by HDMI.org to meet current standards.
> 
> However, at 10', just about any High Speed HDMI cable should work but if you're gonna push 4k HDR, I'd replace your cable(s) with Premium ones.



Thanks, I do watch HDR / Dolby Vision content with my AppleTV. I do not believe i have any issues. I mean HDR / Dolby Vision works or it doesnt, right? If i see the little HDR or Dolby VIsion prompt on my TV I assume I am golden, correct? 

I dont mind replacing but its kind of a pain. Would probably wait until I move in the next few months to do that swap.


----------



## Otto Pylot

terminaldawn said:


> Thanks, I do watch HDR / Dolby Vision content with my AppleTV. I do not believe i have any issues. I mean HDR / Dolby Vision works or it doesnt, right? If i see the little HDR or Dolby VIsion prompt on my TV I assume I am golden, correct?
> 
> I dont mind replacing but its kind of a pain. Would probably wait until I move in the next few months to do that swap.



If you can deal with what you have now then just wait till you move and you have easy access to your cabling. Just make sure you keep the bend radius to a minimum (no sharp 90 degree bends) because you don't want to crimp the wiring or put any undue strain on the HDMI inputs. I've used BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables in the past at 6' lengths and 4k HDR (Dolby Vision and HDR10) was perfect thru the ATV4k. Yes, if your tv displays the Dolby Vision or HDR logo briefly then you're good to go.


----------



## ProblematikUAV

I have been experiencing issues with my 4:4:4 color, mostly that I can't get it to work. I have a Samsung JU670D 65" (black friday model, I didn't buy it). Only port 1 (HDMI/DVI) supports UHD Color on it, and I am running a 25' Mediabridge ULTRA from my 1080 GPU HDMI port to the TV. In HDMI 2/3/4 it works fine, though I had to use the GeForce Control Panel to force it to 60hz. However when I switch it to HDMI port 1 it doesn't detect any signal. Just black. I've set the port to PC, I've factory reset the TV, I've tried with UHD Color On and OFF. However my Nintendo Switch had no issues being detected by a shorter cable. 

I just ordered a Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet - Black, Active, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 - HOSS, so I'm hoping that might fix it.

Does anyone think its the cable, or not the cable? This is bothering the crap out of me .


----------



## Otto Pylot

ProblematikUAV said:


> I have been experiencing issues with my 4:4:4 color, mostly that I can't get it to work. I have a Samsung JU670D 65" (black friday model, I didn't buy it). Only port 1 (HDMI/DVI) supports UHD Color on it, and I am running a 25' Mediabridge ULTRA from my 1080 GPU HDMI port to the TV. In HDMI 2/3/4 it works fine, though I had to use the GeForce Control Panel to force it to 60hz. However when I switch it to HDMI port 1 it doesn't detect any signal. Just black. I've set the port to PC, I've factory reset the TV, I've tried with UHD Color On and OFF. However my Nintendo Switch had no issues being detected by a shorter cable.
> 
> I just ordered a Monoprice High Speed HDMI Cable - 25 Feet - Black, Active, [email protected], HDR, 18Gbps, 24AWG, YUV 4:4:4, CL3 - HOSS, so I'm hoping that might fix it.
> 
> Does anyone think its the cable, or not the cable? This is bothering the crap out of me .



Why do you want to use 4:4:4 chroma? As far as the cable goes, purchase a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label for authenticity). They are certified by HDMI.org for the HDMI 2.0 options sets and that's about the best you can do. However, certification is only good up to 25'. An active cable just extends the distance beyond 25' because options like ARC etc can have issues with the longer distances, but HDMI.org doesn't certify active cables. The cable is just the data pipe. What you ultimately can do is dependent upon the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink.


So, use a Premium High Speed cable, ideally at a short length and try that with UHD enabled or disabled.


----------



## ProblematikUAV

Is there a reason I should not use 4:4:4? I'm mostly bothered by the fact that I can't use my UHD Color feature on my TV on my 4k gaming computer, as I believe all of my functions on my TV should work. So, I'd like to be at [email protected] with 4:4:4 on.

I believe the monoprice cable is certified, is it not? Either way, my current 25' mediabridge ultra said it was good for 4:4:4 and it is clearly NOT.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ProblematikUAV said:


> Is there a reason I should not use 4:4:4? I'm mostly bothered by the fact that I can't use my UHD Color feature on my TV on my 4k gaming computer, as I believe all of my functions on my TV should work. So, I'd like to be at [email protected] with 4:4:4 on.
> 
> I believe the monoprice cable is certified, is it not? Either way, my current 25' mediabridge ultra said it was good for 4:4:4 and it is clearly NOT.



Blu-ray material is mastered in 4:2:0 to conserve bandwidth. 4:4:4 is fine if you use your tv as a pc monitor (clearer text as one example) but as far as telling the difference visually, most people can't. 



If the cable is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI, it is certified and will come with the QR label. "Premium" is the HDMI.org registered name for cables that have been certified to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. High Speed HDMI cables have not been certified but they may work as well. No cable mfr, regardless of their product claims, can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work for all setups all the time. Certification is just a guarantee that the cable has been tested by HDMI.org following their protocol guidelines and methodologies. A little more consumer confidence that the cable will work. Again, the cable is just the data pipe. It cannot improve pq like some mfrs claim. There is also nothing magical about an active cable other than it can extend cable distance by using chipsets in the source and sink end for error correction, timing, etc over longer distances (>25'). Active cables are also directional so install them in the correct orientation.


It's also helpful if your HDMI connected devices are all using the same HDMI hardware versions and your cable run is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. 1080 is usually not a problem but once you move up to 4k HDR, the cable connection becomes critical.


----------



## ProblematikUAV

Otto Pylot said:


> Blu-ray material is mastered in 4:2:0 to conserve bandwidth. 4:4:4 is fine if you use your tv as a pc monitor (clearer text as one example) but as far as telling the difference visually, most people can't.
> 
> 
> 
> If the cable is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI, it is certified and will come with the QR label. "Premium" is the HDMI.org registered name for cables that have been certified to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. High Speed HDMI cables have not been certified but they may work as well. No cable mfr, regardless of their product claims, can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work for all setups all the time. Certification is just a guarantee that the cable has been tested by HDMI.org following their protocol guidelines and methodologies. A little more consumer confidence that the cable will work. Again, the cable is just the data pipe. It cannot improve pq like some mfrs claim. There is also nothing magical about an active cable other than it can extend cable distance by using chipsets in the source and sink end for error correction, timing, etc over longer distances (>25'). Active cables are also directional so install them in the correct orientation.
> 
> 
> It's also helpful if your HDMI connected devices are all using the same HDMI hardware versions and your cable run is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. 1080 is usually not a problem but once you move up to 4k HDR, the cable connection becomes critical.


Perhaps I was unclear; the TV will indeed be used as a primary display for the computer, which is why I want 4:4:4. When I said 1080 in my first post, I was referring to my NVidia 1080 GTX video card. I can see how that was unclear on hindsight. My computer's 1080GTX card is why I am running everything in 4K. My JU670D is on the latest firmware version, and my drivers are all up to date on my graphics card. If this new monoprice doesn't work and a shorter one does, then I'll just have to uncomfortably rearrange my mancave a smidgen.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ProblematikUAV said:


> Perhaps I was unclear; the TV will indeed be used as a primary display for the computer, which is why I want 4:4:4. When I said 1080 in my first post, I was referring to my NVidia 1080 GTX video card. I can see how that was unclear on hindsight. My computer's 1080GTX card is why I am running everything in 4K. My JU670D is on the latest firmware version, and my drivers are all up to date on my graphics card. If this new monoprice doesn't work and a shorter one does, then I'll just have to uncomfortably rearrange my mancave a smidgen.


Whenever I've set my device (ATV4k) to stream in 4:4:4 it does so with no issues but I can't tell the difference in that from 4:2:0. When I've chosen to stream from my laptop, 4:2:0 looks just fine and I can easily read text etc on my 65C8 from 10' away. I'm not a gamer so it is different for those platforms because they don't have to adhere to standardized video formats.

Try the Monoprice cable and if it works, problem solved. If not, shorter distances are always better anyway. And if that doesn't work, then try a certified cable at the the same length. It could be that the cable isn't built well enough to handle 4:4:4 data from a given distance.

The tv is a 5-year old model so make sure that all of the HDMI ports support UHD and HDMI 2.0. They should but it wouldn't hurt to try a different port just in case.


----------



## ProblematikUAV

What's funny to me is that I realize I may or may not see the difference in it, it may be superfluous and my determination may be absurd, but damn it I just want it to work lmao.

Either way, thank you for replying and your help. I have learned an enormous amount off the 5 year old thread, nobody was responding to me on Toms or Reddit.

Time to just wait wait wait for the cable now....


----------



## Otto Pylot

ProblematikUAV said:


> What's funny to me is that I realize I may or may not see the difference in it, it may be superfluous and my determination may be absurd, but damn it I just want it to work lmao.
> 
> Either way, thank you for replying and your help. I have learned an enormous amount off the 5 year old thread, nobody was responding to me on Toms or Reddit.
> 
> Time to just wait wait wait for the cable now....



Let us know how it works out. You may be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## mingus

Is 15ft pretty safe for basic 4K Denon receiver to 4K TV? 

I am going to relocate the receiver rather than being below the TV. 

I have used Monoprice premium, open for suggestions.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mingus said:


> Is 15ft pretty safe for basic 4K Denon receiver to 4K TV?
> 
> I am going to relocate the receiver rather than being below the TV.
> 
> I have used Monoprice premium, open for suggestions.


At 15' you should be ok for 4k HDR using a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label for authenticity) from just about any mfr. The cables may be a bit stiff so be mindful of bend radius (no sharp 90 degree bends) and any undue strain on the HDMI ports.


----------



## Barth Netterfield

I asked this in the HT3550 thread, but this may be a better place, since it seems to be hdmi connection related.

I have a BenQ HT3550 projector driven by ONKYO TX-SR494 amp (both brand new).
They are connected with a Monoprice 115430 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 15ft (complete with fancy certified QR code).

I get 2-3 second video dropouts every several minutes.
This is independent of video source fed into the amp (eg, 1080p from ps4, or 2160/60 from chromecast ultra, or 2160/60 from a laptop).

But:
- There are no dropouts if I go straight from the PC on the same 15' cable.
- There are no dropouts using a shorter (10ft?) rocketfish cable between the amp and the Projector for any source.

I have replaced the Monoprice cable with the same model (in case it was defective) with no effect.

Are there suggestions as to what my next step could be?

I have gotten one suggestion to return/replace the amp (since the cables are certified and work with the laptop), and another to return/replace the cable (since the amp works with the shorter cable).

Should I return & replace the cable (if so, with what)? 

Should I return & replace the amp (are some brands more prone to this kind of trouble than others)?
Or return and replace both? 



Update: I replaced the AVR with a Sony STRDH790. The situation is much improved, but I still get 1-2 dropouts per hour for 4k/60 signals.
So, it seems I also need to replace the cable (perhaps the projector is just overly sensitive to signal degradation?)



Thoughts?


If a Certified Premium QR code 15' cable is inadequate, what would be?


sigh...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Barth Netterfield said:


> I asked this in the HT3550 thread, but this may be a better place, since it seems to be hdmi connection related.
> 
> I have a BenQ HT3550 projector driven by ONKYO TX-SR494 amp (both brand new).
> They are connected with a Monoprice 115430 Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 15ft (complete with fancy certified QR code).
> 
> I get 2-3 second video dropouts every several minutes.
> This is independent of video source fed into the amp (eg, 1080p from ps4, or 2160/60 from chromecast ultra, or 2160/60 from a laptop).
> 
> But:
> - There are no dropouts if I go straight from the PC on the same 15' cable.
> - There are no dropouts using a shorter (10ft?) rocketfish cable between the amp and the Projector for any source.
> 
> I have replaced the Monoprice cable with the same model (in case it was defective) with no effect.
> 
> Are there suggestions as to what my next step could be?
> 
> I have gotten one suggestion to return/replace the amp (since the cables are certified and work with the laptop), and another to return/replace the cable (since the amp works with the shorter cable).
> 
> Should I return & replace the cable (if so, with what)?
> 
> Should I return & replace the amp (are some brands more prone to this kind of trouble than others)?
> Or return and replace both?
> 
> 
> 
> Update: I replaced the AVR with a Sony STRDH790. The situation is much improved, but I still get 1-2 dropouts per hour for 4k/60 signals.
> So, it seems I also need to replace the cable (perhaps the projector is just overly sensitive to signal degradation?)
> 
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> If a Certified Premium QR code 15' cable is inadequate, what would be?
> 
> 
> sigh...



For runs up to 25', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) is the best you can do. That being said, no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with all setups and devices. The cable is just the data pipe. It cannot alter or modify the signal in any way so you might want to just check and make sure that your source and sink devices are the same version of HDMI. They probably are but it never hurts to check, just in case. The cable will work with any device that has HDMI. It sounds like 10' may be your distance limit if the source is your pc.


I'm not a fan of Rocketfish (they're overpriced like Monster) but if the cable works at 10', then I'd just continue to use it or try a 10' Premium High Speed HDMI cable.


----------



## Barth Netterfield

Heh. The Rocketfish is borrowed from a friend who used to work at BestBuy. He said that his employee discount on these cables was 'considerable' given their markup.



The source is the Sony AVR (previously an Onkyo, but it worked even worse).


I would keep using a 10', but unfortunately, it doesn't really reach and has to stretch across the room.


My guess is that the hdmi port in the projector (or the AVR) isn't quite terminated correctly so there are reflections, and so it is occasionally loosing lock, causing a link reset.



If this is right, I was thinking an active cable (monoprice spectra7?) might help, but I am seeing highly mixed messages on that in the forums. Is my only hope a fiber cable? 

Has anyone had success with the spectra7 active cables?


If, on the other hand, the issue is signal loss and not reflections, might an '8k' cable help?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Barth Netterfield said:


> Heh. The Rocketfish is borrowed from a friend who used to work at BestBuy. He said that his employee discount on these cables was 'considerable' given their markup.
> 
> 
> 
> The source is the Sony AVR (previously an Onkyo, but it worked even worse).
> 
> 
> I would keep using a 10', but unfortunately, it doesn't really reach and has to stretch across the room.
> 
> 
> My guess is that the hdmi port in the projector (or the AVR) isn't quite terminated correctly so there are reflections, and so it is occasionally loosing lock, causing a link reset.
> 
> 
> 
> If this is right, I was thinking an active cable (monoprice spectra7?) might help, but I am seeing highly mixed messages on that in the forums. Is my only hope a fiber cable?
> 
> Has anyone had success with the spectra7 active cables?
> 
> 
> If, on the other hand, the issue is signal loss and not reflections, might an '8k' cable help?



The Spectra 7 (HT8181 chipsets) are the latest iteration of what used to be called Redmere. There is nothing magical about active cables other than they can increase the length of the HDMI cable beyond 25' without any errors, etc. Being as they are active, they cannot be certified by an ATC. At 10' - 15' you really shouldn't need an active cable. A hybrid fiber cable is also active, and imo an overkill for under 10', not to mention expensive. 8k cables are all marketing at this point in time, so at 10' I wouldn't consider it.


The pc could be the issue. A failing HDMI output, software config issue, etc. Take the pc out of the chain and use another source. If no issues, then it's probably something to do with the pc.


Refresh my memory but what is your HDMI connection scheme as you would like to have it?


----------



## Barth Netterfield

The configuration I am having problems with is: 

Chromecast-Ultra (4k/60) --> Sony STRDH790 --15'-hdmi--> Benq HT3550 projector
The Chromecast plugs directly into the amp with no cable.



I experience a 2 second dropouts every 45 min or so.



- Everything is brand new. 

- I currently don't see dropouts for sources slower than 4k/60 (eg, a PC limited to 4k/30, or a PS4 at 1080p).

- I did replace the Amp with a different model, as the previous one had even more frequent dropouts, independent of source.


Technology is great except for when it isn't


----------



## Otto Pylot

Barth Netterfield said:


> The configuration I am having problems with is:
> 
> Chromecast-Ultra (4k/60) --> Sony STRDH790 --15'-hdmi--> Benq HT3550 projector
> The Chromecast plugs directly into the amp with no cable.
> 
> 
> 
> I experience a 2 second dropouts every 45 min or so.
> 
> 
> 
> - Everything is brand new.
> 
> - I currently don't see dropouts for sources slower than 4k/60 (eg, a PC limited to 4k/30, or a PS4 at 1080p).
> 
> - I did replace the Amp with a different model, as the previous one had even more frequent dropouts, independent of source.
> 
> 
> Technology is great except for when it isn't



Haven't you asked this in another thread and received a response?


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## Barth Netterfield

Otto Pylot said:


> Haven't you asked this in another thread and received a response?


Yes - as I mentioned, I originally asked this in the HT3550 thread where I got a suggestion to replace the amp (which I did), and another suggestion to replace the cable with fiber cable, which I have not.


Based on the the suggestion to replace the cable with a fiber cable, I moved to this thread, since it seemed more relevant to hdmi than to the projector. Much of the traffic on this thread seems to indicate that at 15feet, a QR coded Certified Premium cable should have no troubles, and is as good as one can get. Yet I am still having problems, so I was hoping to get some clarity.


But, it seems that there is no clarity to be had. 

I can try a fibre cable ("seems overkill"), or an 8k passive cable ("just marketing"), or a different brand 4k cable ("certified premium is certified premium, its as good as you can do"), or ... ???


Sorry about the frustration, but... I am


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## Otto Pylot

Barth Netterfield said:


> Yes - as I mentioned, I originally asked this in the HT3550 thread where I got a suggestion to replace the amp (which I did), and another suggestion to replace the cable with fiber cable, which I have not.
> 
> 
> Based on the the suggestion to replace the cable with a fiber cable, I moved to this thread, since it seemed more relevant to hdmi than to the projector. Much of the traffic on this thread seems to indicate that at 15feet, a QR coded Certified Premium cable should have no troubles, and is as good as one can get. Yet I am still having problems, so I was hoping to get some clarity.
> 
> 
> But, it seems that there is no clarity to be had.
> 
> I can try a fibre cable ("seems overkill"), or an 8k passive cable ("just marketing"), or a different brand 4k cable ("certified premium is certified premium, its as good as you can do"), or ... ???
> 
> 
> Sorry about the frustration, but... I am



I understand your frustration. Generally speaking, if you use a Premium High Speed HDMI cable at say 15' or less, any problems you encounter is probably not cable related as long as the cable is installed with the absolute minimum of bend, no strain on the HDMI ports, no wall plates, etc etc etc. You need to start looking at your individual devices, settings, source material etc. 



You can try a hybrid fiber cable and see if that works better. I've been using the Ruipro4k cables on my system at 5' lengths and they've had the same performance as the Premium cables that I was using prior. They are not something I would recommend for under 20' runs due to cost but they were supplied to me for testing purposes (so no cost to me) and I just left them on my systems. "8k" cables, in theory, should be better made if they are to stand up to the rigors of the 8k demands but without knowing how some of the 8k cable mfrs arrive at their claims I have my doubts. You're still stuck at 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 so that's all the cable will carry.


Look at your settings and source material carefully and try different options. (4:2:0 instead of 4:4:4 for example).


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## neo_ny

Need a run of ~35ft and I see that ruipro cables are highly recommended on here. Any pros/cons using the micro versions of their cables with adapters? The micro version at 33ft (10m) is almost $40 cheaper than the regular version. Any pitfalls using the micro-hdmi cable? Just to be clear the connection will be from my AVR to the projector and my inputs taking regular hdmi cables not micro-hdmi's. Thanks!


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## Joe Fernand

Stick with the full size/single piece connectors every time - makes no sense to add a potential fail point when you don’t need to.

Joe


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## Glenee

rayh271 said:


> i posted a link on here about these cables, but never tried them............but you say you have purchased a 10 ft cable......and you claim these cables will work ....im not trying to be rude or anything.......yes of course they will work just like any 10 foot hdmi cables will work.....but will they do rgb 4:4:4 8 bit colour @ 4k 60hz....
> 
> you say you have no 4k TV...that's my point...so how can you say that theses work.....because you cannot possibly test them for 4k???


I have used these in various length's 6-20feet. I have not had any problems what so ever. Always test out and perform flawlessly. Currently using about 15 of them in place on 4 new Samsung QN85-55Q80T displays.








Vanco International | Certified Premium High Speed HDMI® Cables w/Ethernet


This Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet from Vanco enables transmission of High Dynamic Range (HDR) video from Vanco International.




www.vanco1.com


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## Glenee

I just sent a non working 50ft 3 year old fiber optic HDMI cable(bad chip) back to Monoprice, and they sent me a brand new one. So when they say lifetime on all HDMI cables they mean it.
This was really refreshing to see a company stand behind their MOUTH.


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> I just sent a non working 50ft 3 year old fiber optic HDMI cable(bad chip) back to Monoprice, and they sent me a brand new one. So when they say lifetime on all HDMI cables they mean it.
> This was really refreshing to see a company stand behind their MOUTH.


Excellent. Ruipro has the same policy and they are easy to work with. Does the 50' FO cable (hybrid fiber or FO only?) work as expected?


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## Glenee

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. Ruipro has the same policy and they are easy to work with. Does the 50' FO cable (hybrid fiber or FO only?) work as expected?


I just use it for video, and yes it performs like it should.


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> I just use it for video, and yes it performs like it should.


Excellent .


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## Glenee

I am going to give ruipro a try on your rec. I just bought a Ruipro 50 footer on Amazon. I will now have 2-50ft cables running to the display from 2 different suppliers. I hope your right about standing behind thier product because monoprice was very good at standing behind thier's.


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> I am going to give ruipro a try on your rec. I just bought a Ruipro 50 footer on Amazon. I will now have 2-50ft cables running to the display from 2 different suppliers. I hope your right about standing behind thier product because monoprice was very good at standing behind thier's.


Good luck. 50' is tough for any cable. Ruipro has a Lifetime Guarantee on their cables and is really easy to work with so if you do have to return it, there shouldn't be any issues.


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## Glenee

Otto Pylot said:


> Good luck. 50' is tough for any cable. Ruipro has a Lifetime Guarantee on their cables and is really easy to work with so if you do have to return it, there shouldn't be any issues.


Yea just like you always tell the forum. Once you pass 20-25ft for 4k/60 you have to look at fiber optic.


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> Yea just like you always tell the forum. Once you pass 20-25ft for 4k/60 you have to look at fiber optic.


You don't have to, and there are some who use active cables that do work, but the posts from users of the hybrid cables who have had issues at the longer lengths certainly indicate that hybrid fiber cables are at least an option if other cables don't work.


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## jugsta

So here is my plan. I will have my AVR on the floor below my consoles and equipment (see sketch below). I currently more or less have this exact same setup utilizing Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI 2.0 cables (runs of 25 ft for the consoles and 30 ft for the tv). The AVR in the basement is in a cabinet on the floor. What will change with the HDMI 2.1 migration are the cable lengths Otto keeps mentioning. I had planned to maybe use 10 foot Zeskits for inputs and the 16 footer from the AVR to the TV (may all need to be 16ft due to CL3). At the same time I will decrease the length of the runs by moving the cabinet housing the AVR up on the wall in the basement as shown. Not pictured here are the IR emitter runs I use with my harmony hub and elite. My current setup works perfectly for 4K/60hz but you know I've got to have that VRR and 120hz. I purchased a Costco special (Yamaha TSR-700) to replace my RX-V685 and now I need to replace my OLED55B7A with a 55CX and wait on my Xbox Series X to arrrive. Still trying to get my mitts on a PS5. How much is all that? That is a lot of upgrading! Geez. Here is the side view diagram of what I've decribed. Its a Frankenstein for sure, but I absolutely love this room.











Edit - Otto, I'm sure you'd recommend testing the cables before installing them through the walls, eh?


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## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> So here is my plan. I will have my AVR on the floor below my consoles and equipment (see sketch below). I currently more or less have this exact same setup utilizing Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI 2.0 cables (runs of 25 ft for the consoles and 30 ft for the tv). The AVR in the basement is in a cabinet on the floor. What will change with the HDMI 2.1 migration are the cable lengths Otto keeps mentioning. I had planned to maybe use 10 foot Zeskits for inputs and the 16 footer from the AVR to the TV (may all need to be 16ft due to CL3). At the same time I will decrease the length of the runs by moving the cabinet housing the AVR up on the wall in the basement as shown. Not pictured here are the IR emitter runs I use with my harmony hub and elite. My current setup works perfectly for 4K/60hz but you know I've got to have that VRR and 120hz. I purchased a Costco special (Yamaha TSR-700) to replace my RX-V685 and now I need to replace my OLED55B7A with a 55CX and wait on my Xbox Series X to arrrive. Still trying to get my mitts on a PS5. How much is all that? That is a lot of upgrading! Geez. Here is the side view diagram of what I've decribed. Its a Frankenstein for sure, but I absolutely love this room.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3048149
> 
> 
> Edit - Otto, I'm sure you'd recommend testing the cables before installing them through the walls, eh?


Absolutely test before final install. Maybe I missed it but you are planning on running conduit for your cabling, correct? And speaking of conduit, you could also lay in some solid core, UTP, CAT-6 (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-termintated ethernet) cable to extend an ethernet connection if you wanted to hard wire your system (that's what I've done) or have other uses for an ethernet connection. Add a pull string as well for future pulls.

I have always used Yamaha receivers and found them to be very reliable and robust. I have two HTS's, one LCD-based and one OLED-based, both powered by Yamaha. Yamaha is good with updates but do note that the HDMI 2.1 options sets listed for the TSR-700 are not part of the shipping unit and will be added later on. "Later on" is the operative word.

Zeskit does offer passive, HDMI 2.1 certified cables and they should have the QR labels for their cables by mid to late November. From what I've been told, the cables are the same that are shipping now but they may have to change the product code to match the QR labels when they are ready. I think 16' is the max length they offer. Just make sure you have a gentle bend radius for your cables and you can give them a little bit of extra slack at the HDMI ports so that there is no undue strain on the ports. I haven't seen the Zeskit cables yet so they may be a bit stiffer due to the fact that they are passive and need a thicker wire gauge to maintain the bandwidth, especially at the max length of 16'.


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## jugsta

No conduit- old house. I just notched some holes into the cavity behind the bookshelves from below. I have used in-wall cables for all the runs (including Ethernet). I have a Ethernet switch inside the cabinet to wire all the equipment. I’ve gotten pretty good at feeding the cables through after a while. Btw- the mono price CP cables are pretty girthy. Would you expect the zeskits to be even thicker? I hope the bend radii are similar to the ones I have- not good but serviceable.


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## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> No conduit- old house. I just notched some holes into the cavity behind the bookshelves from below. I have used in-wall cables for all the runs (including Ethernet). I have a Ethernet switch inside the cabinet to wire all the equipment. I’ve gotten pretty good at feeding the cables through after a while. Btw- the mono price CP cables are pretty girthy. Would you expect the zeskits to be even thicker? I hope the bend radii are similar to the ones I have- not good but serviceable.


Like I said, I haven't seen the Zeskit cables at any length but being passive and certified, I would imagine that they will be a bit stiff. Increasing the wire gauge is really the only way to ensure the higher bandwidths over a copper-only cable. That's the problem with the passive cables... loss of flexibility which decreases the bend radius which can increase strain on the HDMI ports. The problems that may arise are not immediate but can appear over a period of time.


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## MadMyers

With the qualifier that my experience doesn't mean you'll see the same...

I wanted to share my surprise news about Monoprice Cabernet cables. I got one back in December of 2015. I think it's 30 feet (might be 25' or 35'). 

Yesterday, for the first time ever, I tried to send 4k/60 4:2:2 12-bit and it worked like a champ. I used a Nvidia Shield as the source and connected it directly to my JVC projector. Shield selected 4k/60 4:2:0 by default but I manually changed it to stress the cable (4k/60 4:2:2 12-bit)

I only write this because I was expecting to need a new cable to do 4k/60 4:2:2 12-bit but turns out I don't.

... Altan


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## rolledoff

What is currently the *most affordable *good quality cable that supports [email protected] and HDR? 2 or 3 ft will do for me. Preferably available on Amazon Prime.

I need one to connect 2017 Apple TV 4K to Denon AVR-X3400H, and one to connect Denon AVR-X3400H to an LG B7A. Thanks!


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## Otto Pylot

At 2'-3' almost any well made High Speed HDMI cable will work for the HDMI 2.0 options as long as you don't have it sharply bent to accommodate a tight space. You could even get a certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable relatively cheap at that length. Monoprice (a reseller), Belkin, BlueJeans Cables (BJC), etc all offer well made cables.


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## Tanquen

rolledoff said:


> What is currently the *most affordable *good quality cable that supports [email protected] and HDR? 2 or 3 ft will do for me. Preferably available on Amazon Prime.
> 
> I need one to connect 2017 Apple TV 4K to Denon AVR-X3400H, and one to connect Denon AVR-X3400H to an LG B7A. Thanks!


While there are some less unscrupulous brands that will sell you a $100 3' active cable, almost anything will work at that length, even for HDMI 2.1. Your best best is to find one on Amazon with good ratings that is sold by Amazon so if it don't work you can return it easily.


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## exm

I'm sticking with Ruipro. The 33ft optical cable worked absolutely great. Just picked up some of their certified (yes, look for those) 2.1 cables (shorter distances) .


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## Ratman

Good that you have positive results.

Don't forget conduit!


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## Tanquen

exm said:


> I'm sticking with Ruipro. The 33ft optical cable worked absolutely great. Just picked up some of their certified (yes, look for those) 2.1 cables (shorter distances) .


They have had a number of issues. Unless they have new hardware out they should be avoided. The Cable Matter only has up to 32' but has smaller ends, needs no external power, the temps are good and it actually works.


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## Otto Pylot

Ruipro cables don't need external power as they are active cables and draw their power from the HDMI port. Ruipro does include a voltage inserter because there were some reported issues with some pj's not providing consistent current output and the voltage inserter corrected that. Most people don't need them at all but Ruipro includes them just in case. Myself and others have tested the Ruipro cables with and without the voltage inserters at various lengths and there was no difference in performance. They worked fine.


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## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> They have had a number of issues. Unless they have new hardware out they should be avoided.


Any citations to back that claim?
(other than your personal experience(s) )


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## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Any citations to back that claim?
> (other than your personal experience(s) )


He doesn't have any, other than the few posts where the Ruipro cables failed. And all cable mfrs will have issues from time to time.


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## Glenee

I am running a 50 ft Ruipro and have had no problems what so ever.


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## Otto Pylot

Glenee said:


> I am running a 50 ft Ruipro and have had no problems what so ever.


Thanks for the post. Positive posts for ANY cable mfr are always appreciated.


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## Rebound

wildonrio said:


> I purchased this cable and it unfortunately doesn't work with UHD Deep Color. When I turn on Deep Color, that cable produces no signal, but the 10' that came with my TV does produce a signal. I'm not even totally sure what Deep Color is; it might even be the same thing as 4:4:4 but I'm not sure.


Originally, HDMI Deep Color meant 1080p60 10-bit 4:4:4. When you run 4:4:4 video with 10-bit color, the bandwidth increases 25%, which is why the cable fails. 

But with 4K60 HDMI, 10-bit 4:4:4 doesn’t use more bandwidth, because when the transmitter uses that mode, it switches from 3 channels of 8b10b to 4 channels of 16b18b. Total bandwidth is higher, but bandwidth per channel is still about 6 Gbps.


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