# Lutrons RadioRA2



## wags_1

Has anyone heard anything about the Lutron RadioRA2 system? I'm currently looking at a home lighting control system and was considering the RadioRA system but hears they might be releasing a next generation. I have 15 windows that I want shades for and about 30 lighting loads.


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## QQQ

 http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_..._home_control/


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## Neurorad

 http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_..._home_control/ 

http://www.twice.com/article/339764-...ntref=hottopic 

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/CE...for_Less.shtml 

http://www.hemagazine.com/lutron_rad...control_system 


They all got the same press release.


Lutron's public site has nothing.


BUT - I took a shot in the dark, and came up with something:


ttp://radiora2.com/ - enjoy!


Edit - brochures and cut sheets for download available there


Edit#2 - I found the site before google did.










Edit #3 - NEW LUTRON RADIO RA2 WEBSITE - http://www.lutron.com/Products/Whole.../Overview.aspx


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## BradKas

Oh wow this is big.


We do a lot a small RadioRa installs, and this is going to make it incredibly easier to get people on board.

All the short commings we have to address when pitching the system are totally solved with Ra2.


I'm excited


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/17151707
> 
> 
> Oh wow this is big.



Yep!


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## Neurorad

No details of any programming software on the website.


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## Neurorad

Any word of reporting dim levels back to the controller?


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## WayneDB123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad;17151575
> 
> BUT - I took a shot in the dark, and came up with something:
> 
> 
> [url* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://radiora2.com/[/url ] - enjoy!



Nice find, thanks for all the links.


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## herdfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/17151707
> 
> 
> Oh wow this is big.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QQQ* /forum/post/17151745
> 
> 
> Yep!



But will this canibalize HW Wireless sales? I am at the limit of 64 on my HW wireless system, but this goes to 200. I had either 1) add a second proc ($1700) or 2) use Maestro timers on closets, etc. (which is what I did).


Yes, there a few less keypad options (still more than original RA) and no conditionals, but for the much lower cost, I probably could have made it work.


I still love my HW system though.


I wonder if this line will still be sold through distributor/online dealers like RA was or if it going to be more of a dealer only product.


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## Neurorad

HomeWorks QS, a new HW wireless platform, is being announced at CEDIA.


I wonder how, and if, that will be integrated with HW4 and HW8.


Hey, how've you been, Dallas? I'm really greatful for all your help - I'm prob going with the RadioRa2 or HW4, paired with an HAI control (when HAI gets around to the integration).


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herdfan* /forum/post/17154191
> 
> 
> But will this canibalize HW Wireless sales? I am at the limit of 64 on my HW wireless system, but this goes to 200. I had either 1) add a second proc ($1700) or 2) use Maestro timers on closets, etc. (which is what I did).
> 
> 
> Yes, there a few less keypad options (still more than original RA) and no conditionals, but for the much lower cost, I probably could have made it work.
> 
> 
> I still love my HW system though.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this line will still be sold through distributor/online dealers like RA was or if it going to be more of a dealer only product.



From a business standpoint those were the second two things I also thought about (the first was that this opens up Ra to a whole new market). This is a very tricky proposition for Lutron:


1. Not cannibalizing the HW line. This may not be a huge concern for them as long as the dollars go to the RadioRa line. Competition is driving prices lower and they may be willing to take the hit.


2. Your distribution question is huge too. If anyone, even sparky (trade lingo for an electrician for those not familiar with the jargon) at your local electrical distributor can now sell RadioRa and it can handle 200+ switches, not only are they potentially cannibalizing the HW line, they may also alienate all of their HW dealers in the process.


Maybe that's why Lutron is suing Crestron - perhaps they figure a lot of dealers are about to move to Crestron







. Anyhow, it will be interesting to watch this unfold.


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## yourchef51

Maybe a newbie kind of question but if you were to install this system, is there any way to control it with a blackberry or itouch? Thanks


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## wags_1

I did a little more research and found out that sparky wont have the software access for the system. To get the software with the RadioRA2 system the dealers will need to get certified.


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## Hyperite

I think/hope HW4/8 will be compatible with HWQS with the addition of a new wireless link (HQ-REP-120?). Also to use QS shade panels with a new interface (HWI-QS96?)


I'm excited about the integrated dimmer for the seeTouch line, and the possible ability to use GrafikEye QS with my HomeWorks 4 system


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## da_pirate




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hyperite* /forum/post/17158352
> 
> 
> I think/hope HW4/8 will be compatible with HWQS with the addition of a new wireless link (HQ-REP-120?). Also to use QS shade panels with a new interface (HWI-QS96?)
> 
> 
> I'm excited about the integrated dimmer for the seeTouch line, and the possible ability to use GrafikEye QS with my HomeWorks 4 system



From what i was told or at least understood at CEDIA, the HW-QS will have a completely different protocol. So no backward compatibility. I was also told that not to say that there will be some way that the HW processor could talk to the HW-QS processor (2 systems communicating) since they are ethernet based. You just can't put a HW dimmer on a HW-QS system/network. It will also have the same protocol as the Radio-Ra2 which will actually allow you to mix and match the products and they can all talk to each other. The big thing about the HW-QS is it will now have over 4000 addresses it can talk to in its system and is still geared towards the centralized lighting architecture. Also, the wireless processor (processor for wireless dimmers) goes from the big box that goes in the panel to a smaller processor about the size of a DVD drive (well maybe thicker a little bit but you get the point). Both the Radio Ra2 and HW-QS is programmable in the same software. So it would be somewhat equivelent to Crestron wired and Infinet... They both work on the same processor, just different means of talking to the actual devices. Also the retail pricing for RadioRa2 is very very competitive. Less than retail of RadioRa. They are marketing radioRa2 for homes says around 4000 sq ft and under. You may need homeworks feedback and more than 64 dimmers but the home is not quite the 10,000 sq ft. Homeworks will be geared towards the bigger homes as that would be the optimal solutions as now dimmers and switches are not the only devices on the network, there occupancy sensors, motion sensors, thermostats, and more (going green now). So Homeworks QS definitely has more "toys" in its line than the RadioRa2. Lastly the thing i really like about the RadioRa2 is no more that having to go to each dimmer/switch to set up or acquire by the main repeater. you do all the addressing via the PC. And you can't go to the local hardware store to get them. You still need to get thru a Lutron dealer. So the dealer issue is not really a problem. In fact, it may allow some dealers to move more product as now the market for controlled lighting has just gotten bigger since more people can afford RadioRa2 system which is lower than RadioRa.

Also for those who don't desire controlled lighting they have some nice "eco-maestro" dimmers that you can get at home depot to replace the maestro currently found there.

I'm pretty sure that's what the lutron rep said, he was talking a million miles a minute and it was very noisy there.

Hope this helps.


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## Hyperite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *da_pirate* /forum/post/17158725
> 
> 
> From what i was told or at least understood at CEDIA, the HW-QS will have a completely different protocol. So no backward compatibility. I was also told that not to say that there will be some way that the HW processor could talk to the HW-QS processor (2 systems communicating) since they are ethernet based. You just can't put a HW dimmer on a HW-QS system/network. It will also have the same protocol as the Radio-Ra2 which will actually allow you to mix and match the products and they can all talk to each other. The big thing about the HW-QS is it will now have over 4000 addresses it can talk to in its system and is still geared towards the centralized lighting architecture. {..snip..}



That makes sense, but the several reps (both sales and tech) have told me that there would be a way to integrate GrafikEye QS with HomeWorks 4/8 in the future, so I'm hoping the future is now. I'm very excited about the HW-QS and RaRa2 processor lineups for customer installs, but they don't help me as a HW4 user


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## herdfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QQQ* /forum/post/17155501
> 
> 
> If anyone, even sparky (trade lingo for an electrician for those not familiar with the jargon) at your local electrical distributor can now sell RadioRa and it can handle 200+ switches, not only are they potentially cannibalizing the HW line, they may also alienate all of their HW dealers in the process.



From what I have read, HW is available to almost any sparky with a heartbeat.


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## brewcrew0

Does anyone know when RadioRA2 will be available? It is out now?

Thank you


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herdfan* /forum/post/17161961
> 
> 
> From what I have read, HW is available to almost any sparky with a heartbeat.



NO, thats not true



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brewcrew0* /forum/post/17163829
> 
> 
> Does anyone know when RadioRA2 will be available? It is out now?
> 
> Thank you



A soft start of some products will be available next month with the full release in January



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hyperite* /forum/post/17160325
> 
> 
> That makes sense, but the several reps (both sales and tech) have told me that there would be a way to integrate GrafikEye QS with HomeWorks 4/8 in the future, so I'm hoping the future is now. I'm very excited about the HW-QS and RaRa2 processor lineups for customer installs, but they don't help me as a HW4 user



When the new HW QS is released in April 2010


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## Neurorad

When do we get the details of HW-QS? CES? HW Wireless QS didn't really seem all that 'rolled out', just an announcement of 'Clear Connect'. Yeah, I picked up the QS color brochure - not very detailed. I like the new LED switches and keypads, just no details of wired QS available.


Just for clarification, any RR2 QS connectivity? Hard to find this bit of info 'in print'. Julie J states emphatically that just because systems are 'Clear Connect' that they aren't necessarily compatible.


Anyone hear of QS pricing? Similar to current?


I'm trying to discover the faults of RR2, if anyone wants to share. It will be QS (wired + wireless combo) vs. RR2, for my own home, retrofit. Finding out all I can.


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## Hyperite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/17174264
> 
> 
> When the new HW QS is released in April 2010



So was I right about it just being an additional antenna on the repeater link to let 4/8 in on the QS lovin'?


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## Neurorad

No public details available on the HW4/8 QS integration, but maybe Chicagorep can share some generalizations? Pretty please?


Will HW 4/8 continue, unchanged?


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17176172
> 
> 
> No public details available on the HW4/8 QS integration, but maybe Chicagorep can share some generalizations? Pretty please?
> 
> 
> Will HW 4/8 continue, unchanged?



HW 4/8 will be a whole new platform. Some very exciting things yet to come. At this Cedia selected dealers were invited to the Lutron Suite to review and critique the new platform. These comments will be used to finalize the new system. One thing that will be available is energy monitoring software that will allow the user to see their energy usage.


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17174655
> 
> 
> When do we get the details of HW-QS? CES? HW Wireless QS didn't really seem all that 'rolled out', just an announcement of 'Clear Connect'. Yeah, I picked up the QS color brochure - not very detailed. I like the new LED switches and keypads, just no details of wired QS available.
> 
> 
> Just for clarification, any RR2 QS connectivity? Hard to find this bit of info 'in print'. Julie J states emphatically that just because systems are 'Clear Connect' that they aren't necessarily compatible.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone hear of QS pricing? Similar to current?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to discover the faults of RR2, if anyone wants to share. It will be QS (wired + wireless combo) vs. RR2, for my own home, retrofit. Finding out all I can.



The 2 systems will not be compatible except for QS shades.

I "heard " that the pricing will be lower.

So far Ra2 seems to be a very exciting and affordable line, Dimmers at $149.


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## SoundKernel

I'm confused- Are you saying the RR2 and Grafik Eye QS are only compatible in regards to shades? Or can the RR2 controllers control the Grafik EyeQS loads?


Are the RR2 switches also $150?


Thanks,


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## SoundKernel

OK- I reviewed the press release and RR2 will interface w/ GEQS. But how is this accomplished- hardwire or some kind of interface module.

I'm interested in GEQS because I may need shade control for some clerestory windows- and it may be less expensive to buy this as an integrated solution with lighting control a-la QS.

So I guess the real question is how much is stand-alone slovia control (never mind the shades) and how much is the option on a GS unit?


The idea of starting w/ QS and adding RR2 later may be penny wise and pound foolish given the new cost structure of RR2 and feature overlap. Starting with RR2 may be a better bet and only a few hundred more expensive in the beginning.


Thoughts?


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## Neurorad

Thanks for the info, Chicagorep.


Will the new HW platform work with existing HW 4/8 switches/dimmers?


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## Anthony A.

good question, and will it be more of a whole home automation controller similar to an HAI unit or still strictly light control? and, when would you speculate this will be released?


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony A.* /forum/post/17187939
> 
> 
> good question, and will it be more of a whole home automation controller similar to an HAI unit or still strickly light control? and, when would you speculate this will be released?



The new Homeworks QS will be a whole new platform and will NOT be backward compatible as of right now. The new platform will control lighting and HVAC via their new thermostat. They're going to leaving the rest to their partners at AMX and Savant. I heard April of 2010 but I have a feeling it won't be seen until the next Cedia Expo.


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## Neurorad

Thanks, Robert. Much appreciated.


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## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *da_pirate* /forum/post/17158725
> 
> 
> Both the Radio Ra2 and HW-QS is programmable in the same software.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's what the lutron rep said, he was talking a million miles a minute and it was very noisy there.



I was told by a Lutron tech support rep that there will be different software for the QS and for RR2. I asked him clearly, and he responded clearly.


So currently, I don't know the answer.


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## Neurorad

Lutron Tech Support also confirmed that conditionals would not be possible with RR2 - if/then based on time of day, or occupancy.


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## wags_1

RadioRA2 will directly work with the GrafikEyeQS as long as the unit is the wireless model. If the GrafikEyeQS unit is not wireless then it will not work with the RadioRA2 system.


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## westcojack

As a long time Vantage dealer, you should consider a Vantage Infusion system with either ILT or RTS control of the ultra quiet Somfy Sonese motors for the shades.

In addition to conditional logic and astronomically timed events, you can wire for future additions to the system, and it is always backwards compatable.

I can provide more info if you need it.


Jack


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## dongennl

Hi,

Does anyone know if/when this will be available in Europe for 230V and European style keypads???


Can't wait!










thanks


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## IPT

anyone heard anything about this? I thought at least a limited release was slated for end of October?


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## Neurorad

 http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...read.cgi?20231 
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...light=radiora2 
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...light=radiora2 


Call Lutron Customer Service to get a list of local RadioRa2 installers, or potential installers. I bet most of the HomeWorks qualified installers will be signing up for Ra2, so you could probably get a list of installers from the website.
http://www.lutron.com/wtb/wheretobuy.aspx?cid=0 


And more Ra2 eye candy from the radiora2.com website:
http://radiora2.com/pdf/Trade_Brochu...0B_spreads.pdf


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## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IPT* /forum/post/17482684
> 
> 
> anyone heard anything about this? I thought at least a limited release was slated for end of October?



I just completed the Lutron training for RadioRA2; what would you like to know?


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## Neurorad

I'd like to know how to cable for HomeWorks QS Wired, but I bet they didn't cover that.


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## SoundKernel

What's the premium for GrafikEyeQS wireless? A percentage would be adequate. And when will this be available?

Overall, the RR2 system is dramatically less expensive but the cost of the new multi-button controllers has not been disclosed. How do these conmpare to the old controllers? Again, a percentage is fine.


Thanks-


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SoundKernel* /forum/post/17515260
> 
> 
> What's the premium for GrafikEyeQS wireless? A percentage would be adequate. And when will this be available?
> 
> Overall, the RR2 system is dramatically less expensive but the cost of the new multi-button controllers has not been disclosed. How do these conmpare to the old controllers? Again, a percentage is fine.
> 
> 
> Thanks-



GE QS is now available. The price is based on what you plan on controlling with it, ie. shades, light loads/type. The Ra2 keypads are $299 and the Hybrid KP will be $449.


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## Neurorad

Holy crap, that's expensive, for a light switch.


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## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17516353
> 
> 
> Holy crap, that's expensive, for a light switch.



But quite the bargain for a keypad!


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *39CentStamp* /forum/post/17517556
> 
> 
> But quite the bargain for a keypad!



True, and the best part it always works


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## SoundKernel

Thanks ChicagoRep!


I'm interested in a 4 zone wireless GrafikEye QS without shade control (which could be added later, no?).


I understand the benefits of RR2 and they are compelling but I already have a simple RR1 installation. If I keep RR1 system under 32 loads, would there be a performance difference between RR1 and RR2? I understand the feature differences which are significant.


I'm trying to figure out if I should:

1) Scrap the current system (10 loads, 1 repeater, 3 controllers) and invest in a RR2 clone as a starter

2) Keep going w/ RR1; ultimately double it's size and add a Chronos and probably another wall control.

3) Start with QS wireless for the kitchen and incrementally implement RR2. I could run RR1 and QS (as stand alone) unintegrated for a while and then move to RR2


I'm rennovating so my options are somewhat open but I'm not made of money. Decisions, decisions...


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## BradKas

If you plan on expanding your Ra Classic installation to the point of needing a Chronos, and are interested in the added features of a RR2 system I would go for it.


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## Chicagorep

Ra2 will have a performance advantage of Ra Classic. It works much faster.


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## SoundKernel

Yes- I ran some numbers and agree. Keep it simple w/out chronos- this approach could sustain a modest expansion because RR1 is becoming much cheaper.

Or punt, sell existing to offset the new system- I'm leaning towards this. Incremental expansion is much more affordable with RR2. Lutron did their homework.

But GrafikEye QS Wireless makes no sense if you are starting with RR2...the reverse may be an exception- not sure.

What will the wireless occupancy sensors run?


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## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17507936
> 
> 
> I'd like to know how to cable for HomeWorks QS Wired, but I bet they didn't cover that.



nothing (yet) on QS; I'll take that class when it is offered


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## BradKas

The wireless occupancy sensors were around 90 dollars CND base price. I did not check into what I would pay.


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkv* /forum/post/17527836
> 
> 
> nothing (yet) on QS; I'll take that class when it is offered



It'll be a while before that happens.


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## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/17528256
> 
> 
> It'll be a while before that happens.



I'm guessing Q4 '10.


I'm considering wiring for QS Wired in the Spring, during a kitchen remodel. I may be forced to use Ra2, instead of having the choice.


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17530005
> 
> 
> I'm guessing Q4 '10.
> 
> 
> I'm considering wiring for QS Wired in the Spring, during a kitchen remodel. I may be forced to use Ra2, instead of having the choice.



It's going to be a while before Homeworks QS is available. Probably well into 2011


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## wags_1

I was hearing that HomeWorks QS wireless would be out second quarter of '10


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## Neurorad

HW QS Wireless Q2 '10


HW QS Wired - a year away, or more


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## drew300

I went through Ra2 PSP training last week in PA and this is some of what I know:

-Products should be available in 2 weeks (sorry for the pun RTI guys)

-Electronic Dimmers won't available till Jan 1

-Ra2 has three levels. In order to program level 2 (essential) you need burst training. Level 2 will allow you to go up to 100 devices. Level 3 (inclusive) allows you to install up to 200 devices you'll need to be PSP certified.

-Ra2 will not be compatible with any Homeworks products. Just because they are both QS products they are putting walls up so that they won't be compatible.

-Repeaters are counted towards device counts

-Intergrates QS Shades

-No Logic (this biggest reason to be a Homeworks dealer)

-Once programmed with the software you cannot manually make changes. But it will have a web server installers can log on remotely to make changes.

-Software is really easy to program. You go through and create the system in the software and go around to each switch to address it into the program and that's it. No more running around for each scene

-Each button on a keypad can either do scene or room control

-Grafik QS's are pimped out! Any keypad in the house can control a Grafik scene or specific light level on the QS. No more being able to only control a scene button. Completely wide open control.

-T-Stat's won't be out for a while and they aren't even sure how they will work

-Ra2 is faster than the current Homeworks processors (very very fast)

-Homeworks wireless won't be out until 2011

*Not sure on the wired time frame*

-Homeworks will have the same type of GUI that Ra2 has but on steriods of course

-They were taking suggestions for mobile phone control but they said they had nothing done yet.

-100 phantoms

-The main repeater has a built-in astronomical time clock

-To go from 100 to 200 devices you need to add another main repeater but there is no goofy bridging mode

-Did I mention fast

-Car visor controller can do 4 garage doors. This is not a push button type controller anymore and most likely will sit up by the garage door openers

-Foundations package is $4399 suggested list price:

7 600 watt dimmer

3 1000 watt dimmers

3 accessory dimmers

3 wall controllers

3 table tops

Main Rep and 1 Aux Rep

Car Visor controller and 2 car visor controller

*the thought behind this package is that the customer would want to expand that's why they have so many keypads and table top controllers


QS is their wirelss platform but they will put physical limitations up so you cannot use Ra2 with Homeworks QS. It is possible to communicate with each other but it won't happen.


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## drew300

I believe it will report the dimmers levels as well. But don't quote me on that one.


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## drew300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SoundKernel* /forum/post/17524758
> 
> 
> Yes- I ran some numbers and agree. Keep it simple w/out chronos- this approach could sustain a modest expansion because RR1 is becoming much cheaper.
> 
> Or punt, sell existing to offset the new system- I'm leaning towards this. Incremental expansion is much more affordable with RR2. Lutron did their homework.
> 
> But GrafikEye QS Wireless makes no sense if you are starting with RR2...the reverse may be an exception- not sure.
> 
> What will the wireless occupancy sensors run?



They have a wireless occ sensor and a vacany sensor. The occ sensor can do both but due to California's crazy rules and regs you can't have the option to shut off the vacany setting so they made just a vacancy sensor. You can have the sensor shut lights off if no motion is sensed for more than X mins. Or if you walk into a room the occ sensor can trigger a scene or turn on a specific light. Very cool!


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## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17531910
> 
> 
> HW QS Wireless Q2 '10
> 
> 
> HW QS Wired - a year away, or more



Don't believe it.


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## Neurorad

Thanks so much, Drew and Robert.


So, should I wait a year or more for HW QS Wired, or go Ra2 now? (rhetorical, of course)


If I decide to wait, any suggestions on how to wire for HW QS Wired? Lutron has gotten away with avoiding twisted pairs for so long that I have doubts they'll switch.


Maybe the 2+2(shielded), AND cat6 to each switch?


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## drew300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17534960
> 
> 
> Thanks so much, Drew and Robert.
> 
> 
> So, should I wait a year or more for HW QS Wired, or go Ra2 now? (rhetorical, of course)
> 
> 
> If I decide to wait, any suggestions on how to wire for HW QS Wired? Lutron has gotten away with avoiding twisted pairs for so long that I have doubts they'll switch.
> 
> 
> Maybe the 2+2(shielded), AND cat6 to each switch?



Look Ra2 is really powerful now. Lutron has made a really great leap forward with their new product line and I suspect they are trying to capture the green movement and will become an energy managment company more than anything. As far as what you should do is up to you. Do you need conditional logic? I.E. if you push this button from 9am - 6pm the lights do this or from 6pm - 9am they do that. That is a really important and price worthy improvement. Also if you want to clean up wall clutter by removing all your switches and having them run into dimming panels. If you don't than go with Ra2 because I would have say congrats on a nice house if you could max out all 200 devices. I've been told that most large Homeworks installs don't go more than 180 loads.


I don't think they will change wiring standards.


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## drew300

I didn't mention the one of the most important features of Ra2! The ability to WIRE Aux repeaters. So if you have a pool house more the 30' away you can use your existing unused wires to extend coverage. VERY NICE! HIGH FIVE!


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## BradKas

Yeah when they announced the wired aux repeaters I had to go change my underpants in the bathroom. We are wiring for a Ra2 system right now with a pool house about 100 feet away that now can be easily integrated into the house system.


Also during the sales conference they did put a lot of emphasis on energy management.


----------



## lutron nut

The wiring will probably be the same as the new commercial quantum system which uses qs devices. The qs links can have any qs device on them up to 100 devices regardless of type keypad, grafik eye, qs shade, etc. They are also not limited to the daisy chain wiring scheme, you can star, t-tap or do whatever you want. Makes for much for flexibility in the wiring of the system. It still uses the standard 2+2 pair that Lutron systems have always used.


----------



## Chicagorep




Neurorad said:


> Thanks so much, Drew and Robert.
> 
> 
> So, should I wait a year or more for HW QS Wired, or go Ra2 now? (rhetorical, of course)
> 
> 
> If I decide to wait, any suggestions on how to wire for HW QS Wired? Lutron has gotten away with avoiding twisted pairs for so long that I have doubts they'll switch.
> 
> 
> Maybe the 2+2(shielded), AND cat6 to each switch?[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> If it was up to me I'd go for Ra2 right now, it's only going to get better.


----------



## Neurorad

The major drawback to Ra2 is the lack of conditional programming.


To help me understand conditionals better, can some people please provide more examples, other than time of day?


----------



## Chicagorep

Those time of days conditionals will be able to happen when the Ra2 light sensor comes out, it just won't be something that you can tweak to your liking. Also when the thermostat comes out you will be able to activate your shades, if the stat senses the AC is working to hard to cool the space it will automatically lower the shades. Over next few years you will see Lutron further develop the Ra2 product line to capture more of the Mid-level market from all the Z-wave/zigbee companies out there.


----------



## Neurorad

So, Ra2 CAN/WILL allow conditional programming? Seems like it would have to, for jive with the 'green' marketing.


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17538700
> 
> 
> So, Ra2 CAN/WILL allow conditional programming? Seems like it would have to, for jive with the 'green' marketing.



Technically no, but as you said there is talks of some GREEN logic that will be incorporated.


----------



## wags_1

I talked to the Lutron tech support today and asked about doing conditional logic with RAdioRA2. They said that this will NOT be an option with RadioRA2. Chicagorep do you have a time frame for the daylight sensor? When I asked they said in the future but did give me a time frame.


----------



## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/17528256
> 
> 
> It'll be a while before that happens.



yup....


----------



## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17536848
> 
> 
> The major drawback to Ra2 is the lack of conditional programming.
> 
> 
> To help me understand conditionals better, can some people please provide more examples, other than time of day?



OK...here is something I do with conditionals


let's say you have a guest room and no one is staying with you. You go to bed and hit the "all off" button which turns all of the lights off in the house. Since the guest room is unused 99% of the time, the "all off" button turns off the lights in the guest room.


now you have company and they are staying in the guest room. They are up there and are reading and you hit the "all off" button. The lights go off in the guest room while occupied...not cool.


A way to avoid that is with conditionals. You create a true/false value that is used to indicate that the guest room is "occupied". A button on a keypad (I usually use a phantom keypad controlled by a automation processor but you can use a "real" keypad) that toggles the true/false. Then you program your "all off" button to only turn off the lights in the guest room if the value is "false".


anther thing I do is do toggle vacation playback/record based on house occupancy and only between sunset and sunrise. Home occupied and between sunset/sunrise, put the system in record mode. Home not occupied and between sunset/sunrise, put the system in play mode. Where this gets interesting is when the homeowner leaves before sunset and comes home after sunset or leaves/returns after sunset. This logic is driven by conditionals, the time clock and the state of the alarm panel; in other words, the homeowner never has to hit a button on the way out to deal with vacation mode, it is driven directly from the state of the alarm panel and is transparent to the user.


does that help?


----------



## Neurorad

Yeah, a lot.










Seems like most of the conditional stuff could be accomplished with a secondary controller linked to the Ra2, e.g. Elk M1, HAI OPII, CQC, Cortexa, ML, HomeSeer, etc.


Of course, I've read it's always better to program conditionals for lighting within the lighting system controller, but since conditionals won't be employed commonly (for me), that it won't be a deal breaker for Ra2.


Ra2 seems like the best option. Maybe I'll cable 2+2(shielded) to each of my kitchen dimmers, just in case, since it's a major remodel, and it's pretty cheap. Nice to leave options open, for peace of mind.


Now, what's the cheapest way to get Ra2...Q is gonna squash any discussion of that here







. Brain churning, smile curling...


----------



## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17549371
> 
> 
> Yeah, a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like most of the conditional stuff could be accomplished with a secondary controller linked to the Ra2, e.g. Elk M1, HAI OPII, CQC, Cortexa, ML, HomeSeer, etc.



I have always designed/installed/implemented systems where even though there is a control processor (AMX/Crestron) that co-ordinates everything, I prefer to have each "subsystem" maintain it's own state.



> Quote:
> Of course, I've read it's always better to program conditionals for lighting within the lighting system controller, but since conditionals won't be employed commonly (for me), that it won't be a deal breaker for Ra2.



You may not think you need conditionals, but once the system is in place, you will find a use for them











> Quote:
> Ra2 seems like the best option. Maybe I'll cable 2+2(shielded) to each of my kitchen dimmers, just in case, since it's a major remodel, and it's pretty cheap. Nice to leave options open, for peace of mind.



agreed



> Quote:
> Now, what's the cheapest way to get Ra2...Q is gonna squash any discussion of that here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Brain churning, smile curling...



contact me off-list


----------



## Neurorad

jkv, thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind.


For the record, I figured out what cable I need to the dimmer locations, for HW4 (and hopefully QS Wired) - 18/2, stranded, shielded.


Searching for something comparable to Lutron Pink, at a more reasonable price. I think Honeywell/Genesis may be a good option...


The 2+2(shielded) is for the keypad locations, where there is no high voltage power available.


Edit - I found Sheer Wire makes a Lutron Pink knockoff, rhymes with zinety-one dollars/500ft, at tselectronic.com. Maybe Q won't be able to figure that out, and delete.


----------



## Ryan Wright

Does anyone know if there will be documentation available on how to talk to the system from another controller? Will I be able to use an RS-232 and/or TCP/IP connection from the main repeater to activate lights and receive notifications of button presses (either from the switches themselves, or from keypads?).


----------



## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ryan Wright* /forum/post/17596232
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if there will be documentation available on how to talk to the system from another controller? Will I be able to use an RS-232 and/or TCP/IP connection from the main repeater to activate lights and receive notifications of button presses (either from the switches themselves, or from keypads?).



The RS232 control protocol for the current RadioRA line is freely available from Lutrons consumer site, so I don't see why it would be any different for RadioRA2.


You can see it here: http://www.lutron.com/cms400/page.aspx?id=7985&mn=1519


----------



## Ryan Wright

Hah! Sweet. Thank you! This will be simple to program if RA2's protocol is in any way similar. I love it when vendors use standard ASCII commands for control, really makes my life easier. I wrote an AMX interface for the X-10 CM11A "Activehome" years ago and that was more difficult.


----------



## wags_1

The protocol guide for the RadioRA2 is on there website and the main repeater has a RS232 port and a Ethernet port on it.


----------



## Ryan Wright

So, when can we buy this stuff? The two dealers Lutron referred me to hadn't even heard of it yet and tried to sell me classic RA.


----------



## BradKas

I think the official release is in January, and they are selling devices on a job to job order basis right now.


I'm in Canada so this information may differ across the line.


----------



## drew300




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ryan Wright* /forum/post/17605149
> 
> 
> So, when can we buy this stuff? The two dealers Lutron referred me to hadn't even heard of it yet and tried to sell me classic RA.



One or two weeks for most of the product. Electronic dimmers won't be available until Jan 1. T-Stats and everything else who knows.


If your dealers haven't heard of Radio Ra2 then I would recommend getting another bid! I will say that you can pick up Radio Ra Classic for the same price as Ra2 but I wouldn't go with it because it's much more limited than the new product.


Look on Lutron's web site for someone who is Preferred Systems Provider certified. It will give you an extended warranty of 4 years vs. 1 year.


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ryan Wright* /forum/post/17605149
> 
> 
> So, when can we buy this stuff? The two dealers Lutron referred me to hadn't even heard of it yet and tried to sell me classic RA.



I would probably avoid those 2 dealers if they haven't heard about Radio Ra2. Its pretty big news in the lighting game IMO.


I wouldn't knock anyone who tried to steer you towards "classic ra" if your looking to buy right now. No point in jumping on the new product bandwagon with your clients money before it has even shipped.


----------



## jkv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/17606505
> 
> 
> I think the official release is in January, and they are selling devices on a job to job order basis right now.
> 
> 
> I'm in Canada so this information may differ across the line.



some of us dealers can get it now


----------



## BradKas

Yeah, we can get it as well but we need to register the devices as a job, and they are selling packages on a job to job basis.


----------



## Chicagorep

I Just got back from 2 days of Ra2 training back Lutron, if you have any further questions about the product let me know.


----------



## Neurorad

Robert, did you hear anything about availability of HW QS? 2011?


I'm a patient guy.







My whole-house controller won't be operational until then, anyway.


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/17718169
> 
> 
> Robert, did you hear anything about availability of HW QS? 2011?
> 
> 
> I'm a patient guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My whole-house controller won't be operational until then, anyway.



HW wireless QS is suppose to be released at CEDIA 2010, but I wouldn't hold my breath. HW QS isn't even being talked about by Lutron, so I'm thinking 2012.


----------



## Neurorad

The QS announcement at CEDIA, although second stage to Ra2, seemed like a big deal. I guess they had a change of heart. However, it doesn't seem like it's much of a stretch to re-brand Quantum - it's not like it's new technology. The QS protocol is already published, Clear Connect is now established. Seems like QS would be perfect in this economic environment, with comparatively more retrofits.


I just wish I knew the details of HW QS, before making my Ra2 vs QS decision. I guess the only decision I really must make now is whether or not to run wire to the switches, during my remodel. I guess I just answered my own question.


----------



## Randall Morton

I'm looking to use some lighting control in my new house currently under construction. The house has been framed and closed in but no permanent electrical work has been done yet.


The RA2 seems like it would fit what I need. I just talked to Lutron customer service and was told I could buy, install, and program the system myself and they would assist me. They also said I could just buy and install the dimmer switches and they would work fine standalone for now and I could program them later. Since I'm being held(wisely) to a pretty strict budget this seems like a great solution.


The info I was told by Lutron seems to run counter to some of the info posted in this thread. What am I missing?


----------



## Chicagorep

Randall, it's true that will be able to buy Ra2 through distribution, AVAD or a Electrical Supply house but you will be limited to Aerobic programming (run around and push and hold buttons). The software will not be available to you unless you are a contractor and have completed the L1 or L2 level training. Also, if you do get the software it will expire after a year if you are not actively selling Ra2. WIthout L1 or L2 software the programming options are limited.


----------



## Randall Morton

Thanks for the info Chicagorep,

I thought there was probably a catch somewhere. Still seems like this may be a good way for me to go. I could always pay someone with the training later if I decided I needed more advanced programming.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

You might want to consult with someone sooner than later. Your home will have an assortment of single pole and three-ways, etc. RA has in wall keypads. These do not replace a switch or dimmer; but, a strategy can be developed to allow the strategic placement of keypads while reducing the overall number of switch locations in the home. An example might be an entry foyer where you'll typically find multiple switches/dimmers. Some of those are usually three-ways which can be eliminated allowing for the installation of a keypad without increasing the total number of boxes on the wall .... alternatively, the switches/dimmers can be placed INSIDE a closet (out of sight) with a single keypad in the foyer.


----------



## Randall Morton

Thanks for the advice Dennnis but I've already blown the budget. I'm going to do this in a very limited way for now. I'll probably do something for the theater, kitchen area and maybe the entry foyer.


There is a lot of helpful info on the Lutron site. They also seem to be quite willing to give advice, so once I decide exactly what I want to control I'm going to call them for advice. On the other hand if you want to do some charity work let me know.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

I'll help out anyway I can.


----------



## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/17780743
> 
> 
> RA has in wall keypads. These do not replace a switch or dimmer.



RadioRA 2 actually has a new hybrid keypad (RRD-H6BRL) available that is a keypad and local dimmer in a single-gang.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Yup...I'd forgotten about that. Sweet device...I'd like to see it in the Homeworks kit.


----------



## Randall Morton

Thanks for the offer Dennis. I may call you once I get most of this worked out.


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SweetSpot* /forum/post/17784546
> 
> 
> RadioRA 2 actually has a new hybrid keypad (RRD-H6BRL) available that is a keypad and local dimmer in a single-gang.



The Hybrid keypad is delayed until June.


----------



## johny2010

Lutron RadioRA2 is a great product, I already did 3 jobs; The Software makes it easy to create the scenes;Love the Grafik Eye QS;


----------



## bluejayht

Does anyone know what remotes will be able to control a radiora2 system directly? I believe URC makes such a remote, but wondered if one of the Harmony remotes would work. Or would some type of control module be necessary to convert an IR signal into Lutron's proprietary RF?


----------



## Chicagorep

Lutron will be releasing a URC made remote that will control Ra2 via RF, there is no remote that will control Ra2 via RF. You have to use the IR keypad or RS232 communication at this point.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/18036575
> 
> 
> You have to use the IR keypad or RS232 communication at this point.



I think there are IR sensors on all keypds (front and rear), and any universal remote will work.


But RF definately has it's advantages.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/17780743
> 
> 
> You might want to consult with someone sooner than later. Your home will have an assortment of single pole and three-ways, etc. *RA has in wall keypads. These do not replace a switch or dimmer;* but, a strategy can be developed to allow the strategic placement of keypads while reducing the overall number of switch locations in the home. An example might be an entry foyer where you'll typically find multiple switches/dimmers. Some of those are usually three-ways which can be eliminated allowing for the installation of a keypad without increasing the total number of boxes on the wall .... alternatively, the switches/dimmers can be placed INSIDE a closet (out of sight) with a single keypad in the foyer.



RRD-H6BRL is a hybrid keypad that can dim a load (available in april?)


Since this is new construction serious consideration should be given to how the actual lighting zones are setup. Stashing radiora dimmers in a closet as you suggest allows you to increase the number of lighting zones without paying the penalty of having an ugly multigang switchbank on the wall.


----------



## LuxHomeTech

I was just looking over the RA2 Integration protocol and there doesn't seem to be any way to set a discreet light level on a dimmer. It is basically limited to calling 1 of 100 phantom buttons, and the ability to MONITOR the on/off status of those 100 phantom buttons and trigger 232 upon keypad button press.


In homeworks I could give it the ID of a dimmer and 0-100 and it would light up accordingly.


Am I missing something here? How are the control systems going to do sliders?

http://www.radiora2.com/pdf/Integrat...e/040-249C.pdf


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LuxHomeTech* /forum/post/18071025
> 
> 
> I was just looking over the RA2 Integration protocol and there doesn't seem to be any way to set a discreet light level on a dimmer. It is basically limited to calling 1 of 100 phantom buttons, and the ability to MONITOR the on/off status of those 100 phantom buttons and trigger 232 upon keypad button press.
> 
> 
> In homeworks I could give it the ID of a dimmer and 0-100 and it would light up accordingly.
> 
> 
> Am I missing something here? How are the control systems going to do sliders?
> 
> http://www.radiora2.com/pdf/Integrat...e/040-249C.pdf



The very first example they show on page 5 shows them setting a dimmer to 75%


#output,1,1,75,01:30


On page 57 for Maestro Dimmers they also show the command again.


----------



## LuxHomeTech

Page 5 examples refer to Stanza and page 57 is for Maestro.


There is nothing for dimmer level listed in the RA2 section (pg 22-25). Hoping I'm wrong, but I'm just not seeing it...


OK So Maestro (pg 55) and seeTouch keypads listed later on in the 'devices' section of the document apply to ra2. so you can sent any level on any switch by using something like:

#OUTPUT,1,1,75,0:02


You just need the pc programming software to figure out the ids for each switch.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LuxHomeTech* /forum/post/18071181
> 
> 
> Page 5 examples refer to Stanza and page 57 is for Maestro.
> 
> 
> There is nothing for dimmer level listed in the RA2 section (pg 22-25). Hoping I'm wrong, but I'm just not seeing it...



I will find out here pretty quickly as soon as my RA2 equipment shows up and I install it.


I'll be writing a driver for eventghost.


----------



## Neurorad

Huh. I don't understand which command would do this - controlling dim/light level.


Just reviewing the commands, seems you can't control the level, just the status.


The Integration Protocol clearly states, on page 22, for the Main Repeater:


Allows monitoring and control of system devices. For example, the Main Repeater can be used to simulate button presses, report button presses, monitor LEDs, and control light levels of dimmers.


Maybe that's a PSP training 'secret', for 'special' installs.


----------



## Neurorad

Can anyone confirm yet that RA2 dimming levels can be programmed.


Thanks.


----------



## Fiasco

Have not gotten my ra2 equipment yet but will have an answer on that soon


----------



## VinceC

Yes, as long as you have the PC programming software to export a listing of the Integration ID's you can send a level command to each light. pg 55 of the integration manual on their site shows the command structure.


Has anyone timed out how long it takes from pressing a dimmer to when the status actually gets updated over RS-232 or IP? Is there a significant delay to get status?


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VinceC* /forum/post/18183535
> 
> 
> pg 55 of the integration manual on their site shows the command structure.



p55 is specific to Maestro


same commands for both?


Edit - AHA. Maestro for RA2, p54. Thanks.


----------



## Neurorad

I'm sold. RA2 it is.


----------



## Fiasco

Some of my RA2 equipment is in. Hurry up.!!

(Hurry up Apr 1 as well cause I need some hybrid keypads to finish it out)


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18187066
> 
> 
> Some of my RA2 equipment is in. Hurry up.!!
> 
> (Hurry up Apr 1 as well cause I need some hybrid keypads to finish it out)



Tell Nate from Lutron I say hi next time you see him


----------



## LuxHomeTech

Some users on the Control4 forums were saying that there is a 2 second delay on the integration API from when you adjust a light to when the repeater spits out feedback.


Can anyone with gear confirm if this is true? Is this a limitation of the C4 driver, or do other control systems have this same delay? RTI, Savant, etc? For doing events that listen on a button press, this seems like a long time.


----------



## Neurorad

For what type of application? Turn on a light, and there is a 2 second delay until the music starts?


I'm new to automated lighting, and trying to learn.


----------



## LuxHomeTech

I'm talking about the amount of time from when you press a button on the keypad to when the control system realizes that the button has been pressed and can act on it.


In Homeworks, it is nearly instant over TCP/IP. I'm hoping RA2 is the same, but reading the initial reports from people on forums, they say there is a noticeable delay. Just trying to get someone to confirm this until I have my gear setup here and can test myself.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Let's be a bit more clear, Lux. Pressing a RA2 keypad and the delay until the lights respond or toucing a keypad connected to a third party system (Crestron, Control4, etc.) and waiting for a response from RA2?


----------



## Fiasco

I'm still waiting on my RA2 equipment but I'm pretty sure your not going to see a 2 second delay pushing a button and the lights reacting.


I installed a Ra Chronos a month ago in a house and the lights reacted much faster then that.


----------



## LuxHomeTech

Yes, the delay i'm talking about is through integration. RA2 by itself should be instant.


edit:

My installer is here installing my keypads now! I will report back with an update on the delay soon.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

If you have a 2 second delay between C4 and Lutron, look to C4.


----------



## LuxHomeTech

Indeed, The RA2 feedback is INSTANT coming directly off the telnet port.


The delay might be in the C4 driver or as the result of an early beta. I will report back when I get some C4 gear to test with later this week.


----------



## premierht

There are a couple of gotchas in our few Ra2 installs with Crestron control systems. And this is DEFINITELY one of them is not the fault of the control system as Lutron has admitted the problem - to us at least.


A control system can only send a single command at a time to the Ra2 processor. That is fine except that the command has to be acknowledged before the next command will be executed. So when you press a global scene from a Crestron panel there is a delay, yet not when using a Ra2 keypad.


Along the same lines this is the other big gotcha we found:

*Dimming individual loads from a third party controller is cumbersome.*

As it has been explained by Lutron, the RS232/IP protocol sends a raise command and then a stop command after the button is released. It takes a noticeable amount of time for this stop command to be received. What the user experiences when the raise or lower button is released is about a 20% jump in light level (up or down) before the action stops. This prevents the ability to finely tune your lights to the level you would like.


----------



## sic0048

How is it that a company like Lutron is still building systems with such a bad control interface? Clearly the idea of a lighting system like this is to incorporate it into a larger automation system. I would bet that the vast majority of installers are going to be doing just this. Yet Lutron combines a great hardware system with a really bad software system! That isn't exactly a receipe for success.


Looks like I will be looking at the Centralite Jetstream system instead.


----------



## Boogereater

@sic


Lutron does what they do very well and that's it. They make really expensive lighting solutions that work. Also, those systems can be outfitted in ridiculous colors that designers eat boogers over. So, don't hate.


Regarding Centralite, they make good systems as well for a different price point. To each his own. (Some like five dollar pots and some like fifteen dollar pots. They both hold stuff.)


----------



## ddave12000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sic0048* /forum/post/18213391
> 
> 
> How is it that a company like Lutron is still building systems with such a bad control interface? Clearly the idea of a lighting system like this is to incorporate it into a larger automation system. I would bet that the vast majority of installers are going to be doing just this. Yet Lutron combines a great hardware system with a really bad software system! That isn't exactly a receipe for success.
> 
> 
> Looks like I will be looking at the Centralite Jetstream system instead.



Wow. I've been installing Lutron systems for a while and generally, Lutron is the most solid part of the install. It's the other stuff that doesn't work right.


Centralite? I've had a tiny bit of experience, and based on that I would run far and fast. To each his own though.


----------



## sic0048

Sorry if my comments sounded like Lutron hating....


But my point is that Lutron had an opportunity to create as close to the "perfect" non-hardwired lighting solution as we have seen yet (obviously this is argueable). Instead, they seemed to have released something with the great hardware design that we expect from Lutron, but with a really poorly designed control protocol.


Everyone that has dealt with automation has seen and dealt with poor control protocols before and we'll continue to deal with them in the future. But it is frustrating to see a great hardware solution only to find out that the integration potential is severely limited because the company didn't put any time/effort/money into developing the control protocol.


It's one thing to deal with this with hardware like TVs. Most TVs are not going to be hooked up to an automation system, so while it is frustrating, I can understand why a TV manufacturer may not spend a lot of time developing a control protocol.


On the other hand, a very large percentage of these types of lighting systems are going to be installed in combination with a larger control system. So I personally think it is inexcusable for a company to create a lighting system with a lacking control protocol. Lutron isn't the first, not will it be the last, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.


----------



## SBSmarthomes

The RA2 Main Repeater has a mystery mini USB connector on it. Maybe this will allow the opportunity for firmware upgrades at a later date to correct any timing issues with third party integration?


----------



## BradKas

I would say around 80-85% of the homes we install a Lutron lighting system in don't feature any third party home automation.

While they will include fairly advanced structured wiring, it won't be integrated other than RF remotes or similar.

I'm not trying to excuse Lutron for this lack of control protocol, but maybe they don't see the development profitable.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SBSmarthomes* /forum/post/18215943
> 
> 
> The RA2 Main Repeater has a mystery mini USB connector on it. Maybe this will allow the opportunity for firmware upgrades at a later date to correct any timing issues with third party integration?



I tried connecting to the mini-USB port but the driver failed to install. I checked the RRA2 web site and there is no separate software driver to download, so I would assume that the driver is included with the Essentials software package. Maybe this USB port is for future use?


While we are on the topic of connecting to the main repeater, is there some unusual step to do this? I connected the repeater up to the LAN but it isn't recognized by the network and I can't access it from a browser or from the Essentials software. According to the interface guide, the factory default is to DHCP, so there shouldn't be any IP address issues. What am I missing?


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> So I personally think it is inexcusable for a company to create a lighting system with a lacking control protocol



I don't believe you have all the facts at hand.


----------



## David Haddad

I agree, but you know Dennis, you don't always have to be so verbose














. For instance, you could explain the issue to him. Which I will do. The first issue in Premierht's post is relevant only to the most extreme control freaks. The second issue is a bug and will I am sure be fixed with a future firmware upgrade.


----------



## David Haddad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *premierht* /forum/post/18207488
> 
> 
> A control system can only send a single command at a time to the Ra2 processor. That is fine except that the command has to be acknowledged before the next command will be executed. So when you press a global scene from a Crestron panel there is a delay, yet not when using a Ra2 keypad.



OK, but let's explain to people what this means in practicality (apart from the delay issue). Since a Lutron scene can contain every single light in the system, one command coming from the control system can in fact adjust every light in the house. So the only time the limitation you mention would be an issue is if someone wants to select multiple lights or scenes one by one to create an "on the fly group/scene" so to speak, and then raise or lower that group/group scene. I've never even once had anyone ask me to be able to do that, and personally it's not something even I as an uber geek have the slightest in interest in doing (now is when you tell me how all your customers cannot live without it














).


And to clarify for people, the above limitation does not in any way stop someone from raising or lowering every single light in the house simultaneously, or any scene for that matter. It just means the system won't allow ad hoc grouping of lights and scenes and then raising and lowering that ad hoc group.


The second issue you mention that I did not quote is significant and obviously needs to be fixed with a firmware upgrade.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> I agree, but you know Dennis, you don't always have to be so verbose



True but, when one knows "stuff" covered under an NDA, the explanation must be compromised by the threat of dire action contained within that NDA.


----------



## Neurorad

It's my understanding that the RA2 Main Repeater cannot be 'integrated' without the programming software.


It's nice to control scenes from a third party controller, but I would think that, the majority of the time, it's done from a scene keypad. Which, reportedly, is instantaneous.


I bet the 2 sec delay from C4 is a bug, but that's just an educated guess.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> It's my understanding that the RA2 Main Repeater cannot be 'integrated' without the programming software



True fact.


----------



## bluejayht

Dennis or anyone,

A new URC remote compatible with Ra2 is projected to be released in April. Will this new remote be able to control lighting without the "overshoot" issue from 3rd party controllers that premierht refers to?


----------



## sic0048

Honest question here - does RadioRA2's protocol allow for a switch's dimmer level to be queried by a third party device? I believe the original RadioRA protocol did not allow for this. The system would only indicate if a dimmer switch was on or off, but not the dimmer level.


----------



## sic0048




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluejayht* /forum/post/18222077
> 
> 
> Dennis or anyone,
> 
> A new URC remote compatible with Ra2 is projected to be released in April. Will this new remote be able to control lighting without the "overshoot" issue from 3rd party controllers that premierht refers to?



From everyone else's replies, it seems that the bug is in the Lutron firmware. So if/when Lutron updates the firmware, the "overshoot" issue should go away. It isn't a problem with the third party devices - so no change should need to be made to the URC device.


----------



## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sic0048* /forum/post/18227792
> 
> 
> Honest question here - does RadioRA2's protocol allow for a switch's dimmer level to be queried by a third party device? I believe the original RadioRA protocol did not allow for this. The system would only indicate if a dimmer switch was on or off, but not the dimmer level.



Yes, it can report dimmer level, QS shade position, contact-closure output state, etc. The integration protocol is much more extensive than the original RadioRA.


Protocol Guide: http://radiora2.lutron.com/pdf/Integ...20Protocol.pdf 


-Sean


----------



## Hyperite

Any additional word on RA2 integration with HW4? Specifically, I want to use a few QS components in my current HW4 build


----------



## Hyperite

Nice job on the emails





















But color me excited


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hyperite* /forum/post/18256218
> 
> 
> Any additional word on RA2 integration with HW4? Specifically, I want to use a few QS components in my current HW4 build



It will never happen. QS will be a completely seperate platform and old HW will eventually fade away


----------



## Neurorad

I heard, though, that the old HW would be supported forever. Of course, that was a Lutron rep, FWIW.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/18256659
> 
> 
> It will never happen. QS will be a completely seperate platform and old HW will eventually fade away



The RA2 'buy in' (Main Repeater) is cheap enough that one could use 2 separate systems. The dimmers look the same.


I don't know how well the 2 systems could be integrated - perhaps with a 3rd party controller?


What component are you interested in, Hyperite? HW4 does wireless pretty handily, from what I understand.


----------



## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18256834
> 
> 
> I heard, though, that the old HW would be supported forever. Of course, that was a Lutron rep, FWIW.



It will be _supported_ forever, just as the Original Homeworks system is still supported, but eventually they will stop manufacturing hardware, providing software updates, etc. for the older platforms. It is both excessively complicated and cost-prohibitive to make every product infinitely backward-compatible, though to Lutron's credit they are better than most at doing so.


----------



## Fiasco

I just started installing my RA2 system (5 keypad, 14 dimmer/switches). I started a telnet session and issued a few light change commands. I'm not seeing any delay


----------



## Hyperite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18256856
> 
> 
> What component are you interested in, Hyperite? HW4 does wireless pretty handily, from what I understand.



It does, but I would love to have a few GrafikEye QS, and there is one place in my house that I can't run cable for a Sivoia QED, but a QS shade would work perfectly.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hyperite* /forum/post/18260090
> 
> 
> It does, but I would love to have a few GrafikEye QS, and there is one place in my house that I can't run cable for a Sivoia QED, but a QS shade would work perfectly.



'Can't run cable'? Maybe you meant _easily_.


I can run a cable anywhere.


I may cause massive destruction that is expensive to repair, but I can run it.










QS needs power anyway, doesn't it? Outlet nearby? Papered wall?


I've never been a fan of the appearance of GrafikEyes. What's the big benefit? Replacing a 4 gang switch plate with a similar blank plate, that has 5 small buttons?


Hyperite, is there a single location for the shade control that would be perfect, separate from a keypad? Maybe you _could_ install a RA2 system for the shade, and keep them separate.


----------



## Hyperite




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18260214
> 
> 
> 'Can't run cable'? Maybe you meant _easily_.
> 
> 
> I can run a cable anywhere.
> 
> 
> I may cause massive destruction that is expensive to repair, but I can run it.



Haha, yes, not easily. Finished basement bathroom beneath it, uncrawlable crawlspace above it. I'd rather not have it than deal with the repairs










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18260214
> 
> 
> QS needs power anyway, doesn't it? Outlet nearby? Papered wall?



Yep, outlet right next to the window



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18260214
> 
> 
> Hyperite, is there a single location for the shade control that would be perfect, separate from a keypad? Maybe you _could_ install a RA2 system for the shade, and keep them separate.



Yyyyyeah, there IS, but I don't want a disjointed system. It would kill me to have a button to close all the shades and have that one just stare at me.


----------



## Neurorad

Could you locate the shade control in a closet? Most of the time, it will be on a timer (if it was me).


Uncrawlable crawl space? Maybe you could sub out that single pull.


----------



## Neurorad

I haven't bought a RA2 dimmer yet.


Are they packaged with pigtails, or leads? The Maestro IR dimmer I recently installed came with an unusual 18 AWG stranded hot, wired to a terminal on the dimmer. I felt a little uncomfortable using a wire nut, twisting that 18 stranded in with a few other 14 AWG solid wires - not a good connection, IMHO.


I could replace it with a 6" 14 AWG, or use the Wago Wall Nuts - one of them comes with a smaller push in receptable specifically engineered for 18 AWG stranded.










http://www.wall-nuts.us/store773.cfm 


More specifics of this Wago 773-124 on page 3 of 4 from this brochure:
http://www.wall-nuts.us/wall.pdf 


I don't think I'd use an Ideal brand Insure push-in connector, but I think Wago's better reputation for over-engineering would be adequate. Push-in connectors, for the most part, have gotten a bad reputation, but Wago's rep, for other products, is top notch.


----------



## ksalno

Just finished a RA2 system with 6 keypads, 30 dimmers, 2 motion detectors, and 2 repeaters in a residence spanning 3 floors. We ran the system fine with just the master controller but added a second repeater just to be sure the system is reliable.


Has anyone been able to access the master controller over a LAN connection (not hardwired or a dedicated wireless router)? I want to integrate with some control software that operates using TCP/IP but haven't been able to find or connect to the master when it's plugged into a router on the LAN. It works fine if I connect directly from my PC using an Ethernet cable.


----------



## Fiasco

I have. Telnet to the ip address of your main repeater. If your man repeater doesn't pick up an ip address from dhcp your going to have to manually set the ip of the repeater


----------



## TARJr

Does RR2 support "vacation mode"? (lights turn on/off randomly)

Can I program RR2 myself or do I need a distributor?


----------



## Chicagorep




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TARJr* /forum/post/18271475
> 
> 
> Does RR2 support "vacation mode"? (lights turn on/off randomly)
> 
> Can I program RR2 myself or do I need a distributor?



No it does not, one of things I bitched about when I found it was not available.


You can program Ra2 the old fashion way, aerobic programming.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TARJr* /forum/post/18271475
> 
> 
> Does RR2 support "vacation mode"? (lights turn on/off randomly)
> 
> Can I program RR2 myself or do I need a distributor?



Read the install manual , found at the radiora2.com website.


I think you need to hire an authorized Ra2 installer for any advanced functions, e.g. timed scenes. I believe there is a vacation mode, not sure though.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chicagorep* /forum/post/18271583
> 
> 
> No it does not, one of things I bitched about when I found it was not available.
> 
> 
> You can program Ra2 the old fashion way, aerobic programming.



I was told at a recent Lutron roadshow that vacation mode was coming to RA2.



For those talking about control system delays with RA2 and crestron I am experiencing no delays. I'm using CommandFusion on my iPhone to talk to the RA2 main repeater via telnet and I have absolutely no delays. Dimming is accurate (no lag between press/release and reaction from lights)


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18264716
> 
> 
> Just finished a RA2 system with 6 keypads, 30 dimmers, 2 motion detectors, and 2 repeaters in a residence spanning 3 floors. We ran the system fine with just the master controller but added a second repeater just to be sure the system is reliable.
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to access the master controller over a LAN connection (not hardwired or a dedicated wireless router)? I want to integrate with some control software that operates using TCP/IP but haven't been able to find or connect to the master when it's plugged into a router on the LAN. It works fine if I connect directly from my PC using an Ethernet cable.



I am doing that now. Have you set the IP address of your main repeater?



My telnet login via CommandFusion is


username\\x0D\\x0Apassword\\x0D\\x0A#MONITOR,255,1\\x0D\\x0A


----------



## SBSmarthomes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TARJr* /forum/post/18271475
> 
> 
> Does RR2 support "vacation mode"? (lights turn on/off randomly)
> 
> Can I program RR2 myself or do I need a distributor?



As already mentined, anyone can program RA2 devices from the switches/keypads without any software, but there would be no timer functionality or vacation mode.


There are two different levels of software that each require different levels of training to obtain.


Level 1 requires a 2-day training course and allows software programming of up to 100 RA2 devices and included timer functionality.


Level 2 requires the week long PSP training and certification at Lutron's home office and allows software programming of up to 200 RA2 devices and adds vacation mode and shade control.


----------



## Neurorad

Darn. Four days, and a trip to Coopersburg, to get vacation mode. Really hard to justify.


Are PSPs provided any written guidance on lighting control 'best practices'? Not much out there, in the interwebz.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18271794
> 
> 
> I am doing that now. Have you set the IP address of your main repeater?
> 
> 
> 
> My telnet login via CommandFusion is
> 
> 
> username\\x0D\\x0Apassword\\x0D\\x0A#MONITOR,255,1\\x0D\\x0A



How do you get into the main repeater to set the IP address. When I initially connected it to the LAN, I tried to run the main repeater discovery feature of the RRA2 software but it couldn't find the repeater. When I directly connected my laptop to the repeater it found the repeater but I don't see any commands or menu choices to get into the repeater to set the TCP/IP parameters.


Are there defaults for IP address, username and password? I didn't see anything about this in the installation manual.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18275818
> 
> 
> Darn. Four days, and a trip to Coopersburg, to get vacation mode. Really hard to justify.
> 
> 
> Are PSPs provided any written guidance on lighting control 'best practices'? Not much out there, in the interwebz.



I have used 3rd party software (HomeSeer) in the past to control the original RadioRA system. I was able to do a vacation mode in HomeSeer but it was kludgey because the network interface required an both Lutron RS-232 and Ethernet boxes to connect the PC to the RA and the HomeSeer software was dependent on a PC being on all the time in order to issue the time of day related commands. Now that RRA2 has a built in Ethernet connection, it may be possible to control it with third-party software once one of the software vendors develops the RRA2 interface.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SBSmarthomes* /forum/post/18275686
> 
> 
> As already mentined, anyone can program RA2 devices from the switches/keypads without any software, but there would be no timer functionality or vacation mode.
> 
> 
> There are two different levels of software that each require different levels of training to obtain.
> 
> 
> Level 1 requires a 2-day training course and allows software programming of up to 100 RA2 devices and included timer functionality.
> 
> 
> Level 2 requires the week long PSP training and certification at Lutron's home office and allows software programming of up to 200 RA2 devices and adds vacation mode and shade control.



If you have some other controller (eventghost on a PC for example) you could manipulate it how you want.


Telnet in w/ the default login.

Enter #MONITORING,255,1

activate switches one at a time while recording the device ID of the feedback.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18277436
> 
> 
> How do you get into the main repeater to set the IP address. When I initially connected it to the LAN, I tried to run the main repeater discovery feature of the RRA2 software but it couldn't find the repeater. When I directly connected my laptop to the repeater it found the repeater but I don't see any commands or menu choices to get into the repeater to set the TCP/IP parameters.
> 
> 
> Are there defaults for IP address, username and password? I didn't see anything about this in the installation manual.



I plugged my RA2 repeater into my network. I do not remember what the default address was and it didn't pick up an IP address from DHCP.


However, RA2 Essentials saw it anyway.


You can add telnet logins (up to 5) under Tools, Integration, Telnet Logins tab. (The IDs tab will give you device numbers for integration w/ 3rd party controllers).


If you go to the design phase of Essentials, and then to the room with your repeater in it you will see a "Find Main Repeater" button under your repeater. After clicking that, it will either find/not find the repeater.


If you click "Edit Details" you can change the IP address of your repeater.


----------



## Fiasco

my CommandFusion RA Living Room light control page


----------



## Neurorad











Very Nice!


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18281212
> 
> 
> I plugged my RA2 repeater into my network. I do not remember what the default address was and it didn't pick up an IP address from DHCP.
> 
> 
> However, RA2 Essentials saw it anyway.



I'm in some kind of Catch22 with the repeater. I plugged it into my network and even though DHCP was set to true, I didn't appear on my network (according to my network diagnostic tool) and RA2 Essentials couldn't find it.


So I connected my laptop directly via CAT5 cable and Essentials found it no problem. I was able to activate and download all programming.


I tried going in and hard-coding the IP address, the gateway address for my router, and the mask. It gives me an error message that says the address that I'm using is out of range but it lets me download the changes anyway. But then it still isn't recognized on my LAN and Essentials doesn't see it over the network.


I then went back and tried to set DHCP back to true. It let me and I downloaded the change but then not only couldn't I connect via the LAN, I could no longer connect directly with the CAT5. I had to reset to factory settings before I could communicate with the repeater via CAT5.


When I did that, Essentials could find the repeater again but it wouldn't let me save the repeater with DHCP set to true, since because it was hooked to my laptop I got an error message that said it couldn't find a DHCP server and set the parameter to false before it would let me save.


Any other ideas?


----------



## SBSmarthomes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18282725
> 
> 
> Any other ideas?



Sounds like the perfect opportunity to call Lutron's famous 24x7x365 support.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SBSmarthomes* /forum/post/18282870
> 
> 
> Sounds like the perfect opportunity to call Lutron's famous 24x7x365 support.



Been there, done that. According to them, there is no way to access the repeater over a LAN. Only direct connect or a dedicated wireless router will work according to the support person I spoke to. Clearly, that is not the case.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18282725
> 
> 
> I'm in some kind of Catch22 with the repeater. I plugged it into my network and even though DHCP was set to true, I didn't appear on my network (according to my network diagnostic tool) and RA2 Essentials couldn't find it.
> 
> 
> So I connected my laptop directly via CAT5 cable and Essentials found it no problem. I was able to activate and download all programming.
> 
> 
> I tried going in and hard-coding the IP address, the gateway address for my router, and the mask. It gives me an error message that says the address that I'm using is out of range but it lets me download the changes anyway. But then it still isn't recognized on my LAN and Essentials doesn't see it over the network.
> 
> 
> I then went back and tried to set DHCP back to true. It let me and I downloaded the change but then not only couldn't I connect via the LAN, I could no longer connect directly with the CAT5. I had to reset to factory settings before I could communicate with the repeater via CAT5.
> 
> 
> When I did that, Essentials could find the repeater again but it wouldn't let me save the repeater with DHCP set to true, since because it was hooked to my laptop I got an error message that said it couldn't find a DHCP server and set the parameter to false before it would let me save.
> 
> 
> Any other ideas?



Did you try updating the firmware while you are directly connected?


What address, subnet and gateway addresses did you try?


----------



## Fiasco

btw, I will be releasing a driver/plugin for RA2 for eventghost pretty soon.


It will be posted here


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18285815
> 
> 
> Did you try updating the firmware while you are directly connected?



No. I wasn't aware there was any new firmware available. Is that something I need to download from RRA2 site?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18285815
> 
> 
> What address, subnet and gateway addresses did you try?



192.168.82.75

255.255.255.0

192.168.82.1


These are addresses within the range on the LAN. I recall I got an error message when I tried to load them that said they were out of the allowable address range but if I use something in their address range I don't think the rest of the devices on the LAN are going to see the repeater.


----------



## Fiasco

Essentials 2.0.9.21 was released on the 15th of march


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *premierht* /forum/post/18207488
> 
> 
> There are a couple of gotchas in our few Ra2 installs with Crestron control systems. And this is DEFINITELY one of them is not the fault of the control system as Lutron has admitted the problem - to us at least.
> 
> 
> A control system can only send a single command at a time to the Ra2 processor. That is fine except that the command has to be acknowledged before the next command will be executed. So when you press a global scene from a Crestron panel there is a delay, yet not when using a Ra2 keypad.
> 
> 
> Along the same lines this is the other big gotcha we found:
> 
> *Dimming individual loads from a third party controller is cumbersome.*
> 
> As it has been explained by Lutron, the RS232/IP protocol sends a raise command and then a stop command after the button is released. It takes a noticeable amount of time for this stop command to be received. What the user experiences when the raise or lower button is released is about a 20% jump in light level (up or down) before the action stops. This prevents the ability to finely tune your lights to the level you would like.



As I have begun doing more advanced 3rd party programming for the RadioRa2 system I am seeing the issue you are talking about.


When dimming a load I do not have an issue with the press/release of a 3rd party software dimmer function. What I have done is use a macro with an initial raise/lower button press followed by a raise/lower release after 250ms and the button is set to repeat the macro every 550ms while the button is held down.


I don't have a problem with "overshoot". When the button is released the dimmer stops it's action. However, there is visible "steping" of the dimming (300ms between a raise/lower release and repeat of the function while the button is held.


If I shave the macro repeat delay down too much I run into the issue you refer to.


Obviously a slider control will not work (except as feedback on dimmer level) to dial up and down the lights.


It also would be nice if the protocol used a better descriptor of the device giving feedback instead of ~OUTPUT or ~DEVICE (~KEYPAD ~MAESTRO ~REPEATER ~VCRX would be better IMHO)


----------



## Fiasco

No dimmer up/down buttons for repeater integration buttons is a bummer too.


----------



## BradKas

I am a bit of a networking noob - what is all involved in remotely uploading an updated file on to a repeater tied into a network.


For an example, an end user wants me to make programming changes remotely to their system.


Thanks,


Brad


----------



## LuxHomeTech

I'm trying to figure that out myself. the auto discovery does not work over vpn and I can not get it to just point to an ip address. I can ping the repeater though.


Anyone know what's required to forward the autodiscovery mechanism so a repeater connected over vpn gets shown in the pc programming app?


----------



## Fiasco

In my house I have cable broadband so:


cable modem -> linksys router -> network/switch -> radiora repeater


First thing to do is give your radiora repeater a fixed IP address. The next thing to do is login to your router and setup port forwarding received on port 23 to the ip address of your radiora repeater.


Now, visit a site like http://whatsmyip.org to view your current ip address.


telnet into the address displayed and if setup correctly you should be able to telnet into your RA repeater.


Now, if your like most people (myself included) you do not have a static IP address (your ip address changes all the time). So, hard coding your IP address in your remote control system will only work until your ISP changes your IP address.


Follow the instructions in this article to setup a dynamic DNS account. (free, this will correlate your current IP address to a URL that doesn't change like myhouse.dyndns.org)


Once setup, you should be able to telnet to myhouse.dyndns.org (or whatever your assigned URL is) to get into your repeater.



That's for remote 3rd party control.


------------------------


I have not tried to remotely update my repeater however I'm sure you could. Manipulate the windows host file and port forwarding on the router?


----------



## LuxHomeTech

I'm not sure exactly what protocol it uses, but Bonjour, upnp, and most other auto discovery protocols do not work over WAN or VPN.


Fiasco, are you able to update your RA2 repeater remotely using the instructions you posted?


I can VPN into my network and be able to telnet to and ping the repeater, but the Lutron software will not let me just type in an ip address, it needs to auto discover the repeater, and autodiscovery will not work over vpn in most cases.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LuxHomeTech* /forum/post/18367487
> 
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what protocol it uses, but Bonjour, upnp, and most other auto discovery protocols do not work over WAN or VPN.
> 
> 
> Fiasco, are you able to update your RA2 repeater remotely using the instructions you posted?
> 
> 
> I can VPN into my network and be able to telnet to and ping the repeater, but the Lutron software will not let me just type in an ip address, it needs to auto discover the repeater, and autodiscovery will not work over vpn in most cases.



I have not tried and won't for a few days... to busy.


If the software must auto discover the repeater via UDP (or some other protocol that doesn't travel outside the local network it definately won't work).


Must it do this every time or is the UDP broadcast only used for the initial setup/discovery?


----------



## Fiasco

I just did a netstat to see what ports the Essentials software is using


UDP 0.0.0.0:1969

UDP 192.168.2.151:2056 (IP address of the machine I'm running essentials on)

TCP 127.0.0.1:1955



So, I'm wondering, can I setup my router to port forward 1955 to the local ip address of my radio ra repeater. And, then manipulate my hosts file to redirect the local IP address of the RA repeater to my internet IP address.


----------



## Fiasco

I'll call lutron about it tomorrow.


----------



## Fiasco

Called Lutron today and they say it can't be done. He indicated it might be possible over a VPN but didn't know for certain.



He didn't understand the application for it since you must be local to activate the devices initially. I gave him a scenerio where initial programming and activation is done locally and subsequent updates/changes done remotely.


I asked him to bounce my scenerio up the chain.


----------



## Ryan Wright

Hi Folks,


I'm back and ready to buy. Where is the best place to get this stuff?


----------



## Fiasco

Been playing with my CF remote and RA2 lighting system.


Buttons toggle between off and preset level and the meter along the right allows you to slide your finger to dim and provides visual feedback of light levels. Took a bit of work with delays and macros to not overwhelm the RA telnet session but it works pretty smoothly.


Need to resize/reformat. I used existing graphics I already made to test the concept out.


----------



## dongennl

Hi,

Anyone know anything about if/when RadioRa2 will be available for 230V European style keypads??

Can't get much sense out of Lutron themselves re this.


thanks


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dongennl* /forum/post/18526645
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know anything about if/when RadioRa2 will be available for 230V European style keypads??
> 
> Can't get much sense out of Lutron themselves re this.
> 
> 
> thanks





I called my lutron rep on your behalf and should get an answer on this for you later today or Monday.


----------



## Fiasco

Unfortunately no euro Ra2. It's being considered but no definative answer


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18535230
> 
> 
> Unfortunately no euro Ra2. It's being considered but no definative answer



HomeWorks QS may be an alternative to RA2, in Europe, but HW QS hasn't been released yet, I don't think. Contact a local Lutron rep to find out when it will be released. HW QS was to be shown at ISE, but I didn't hear much about it after the show.


----------



## gumati

is it possible that i can buy the system online??


----------



## Neurorad

Yes, you can buy it online - try google.


However, you won't get the programming software.


You'll need to buy from a local installer, and sweet talk him into giving you the SW. It's the price you'll pay to get the SW.


The SW, I'm sure, will be periodically updated. Not sure if future updates would be provided, if an installer gives you the SW. I'm guessing one would pay $50-150 to have him come back, for each update. Mmmm...RA2 thermostats...


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18541019
> 
> 
> Yes, you can buy it online - try google.
> 
> 
> However, you won't get the programming software.
> 
> 
> You'll need to buy from a local installer, and sweet talk him into giving you the SW. It's the price you'll pay to get the SW.
> 
> 
> The SW, I'm sure, will be periodically updated. Not sure if future updates would be provided, if an installer gives you the SW. I'm guessing one would pay $50-150 to have him come back, for each update. Mmmm...RA2 thermostats...



I believe vacation mode is forthcoming for RA2 and not currently present in the essentials software.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gumati* /forum/post/18540180
> 
> 
> is it possible that i can buy the system online??



Where are you located? What voltage is the norm in your country?


----------



## gumati

form North Africa and the voltage 220-230


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18541971
> 
> 
> Where are you located? What voltage is the norm in your country?


----------



## Neurorad

Call Lutron Technical Assistance

1.800.523.9466

They will have a rep call you - Spanish North Africa, it seems, has Lutron distribution.


Or, you could email Lutron to find out who the rep is.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gumati* /forum/post/18546073
> 
> 
> form North Africa and the voltage 220-230



There are currently no RadioRa2 devices for 220/230V systems. I would call the number neurorad posted. I'm sure they would be happy to help you find a lutron system that will work at your voltage.


----------



## mario23

I was looking for an inexpensive DIY setup and was considering Z-Wave when I came across RadioRA. It appears to still be very new and now I'm concerned that any Z-Wave application I put together will be obsolete before my work is done. It does still seem to be the most inexpensive way to go for what I want (lighting, thermostat, shades, cameras) but now I'm just worried about investing into something I'll have to replace sooner than later. What do you guys think? Keep in mind I'm not talking about a large scale deployment here...

Thanks


----------



## Neurorad

Radio RA has been around for many years. Radio RA2 is the newer, improved version, released in December.


----------



## mario23




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/18679086
> 
> 
> Radio RA has been around for many years. Radio RA2 is the newer, improved version, released in December.



I know that...I miss-typed...I've been reading about RA2 and wondering if investing into Z-wave devices would be a mistake right now.


----------



## herdfan

If RadioRA2 is within your budget, then definitely go with it. Far superior to Z-wave for lighting. Z-wave currently has some other products (stats, remotes) that RA2 does not. But for just lighting, RA2 is the way to go.


----------



## Fiasco

Ra2 has a thermostat due for release this year


----------



## mario23

I really wanted to do this myself. I don't want to have to rely on a dealer for install and service and all that. It seems like the only real DIY product out there is Z-wave. Am I wrong about that???


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mario23* /forum/post/18682935
> 
> 
> I really wanted to do this myself. I don't want to have to rely on a dealer for install and service and all that. It seems like the only real DIY product out there is Z-wave. Am I wrong about that???



RA2 most certainly can be a DIY product


----------



## ksalno

The problem with RA2 as DIY is programming. Since Lutron only makes their software available to trained and certified installers, they pretty much lock down the market to custom installs. Yes, for a small project you can program everything manually but it doesn't scale when you are trying to do a whole house project and you lose some of the features like timers.


----------



## esbelectric

I am in nova and would be happy to help you with your ra2 install, we do lots of work in great falls/McLean, I can get very good pricing for you as well, we are licensed electrical contractors, if interested pm me


----------



## herdfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18690643
> 
> 
> The problem with RA2 as DIY is programming. Since Lutron only makes their software available to trained and certified installers, they pretty much lock down the market to custom installs.



If you are smart enough to plan, install and program an automated lighting, you should be able to find a way to get the software you need. Lutron is not Crestron, they even have a homeowner version of their homeworks software.


----------



## spiwrx

If anyone has any specific Ra 2 questions or Needs in SoCal we stock the stuff and are scheduling local training seminars. If you attend a 'Blast' training seminar you get the level 1 programming software (download after training completion) and an opportunity to purchase these kits at a discounted rate.


Anyone interested I am an Authorized Lutron Distributor and RA2 Partner, we currently have a few promo RA2 packages left over from our last training.


PM or email ([email protected]) me if you are interested.


We have:


4 left of:
*RR-SINGLE-HT2-WH* Packages

Includes:

3x RRD-6D Dimmers

1x Lamp Dimmer

1x Main Repeater

1x Accessory Dimmer

1x RRD-W6BRL-WH
_This is a great starter set for a very reasonable price_


2 left of:
*RR-MULTI-F2-WH*

Includes:

7x RRD-6D Dimmers

3x RRD-10D Dimmers

2x Lamp Dimmers

1x Main Repeater

1x Aux. Repeater

3x Accessory Dimmer

1x RR-VCRX-WH

2x LR-3B-H-SW

2x RRD-W6BRL-WH


My Dealer status prevents me from listing a price. But I have this quantity left at about 15% off our Reg. and about 30% than buying these core components individually....


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herdfan* /forum/post/18692999
> 
> 
> If you are smart enough to plan, install and program an automated lighting, you should be able to find a way to get the software you need. Lutron is not Crestron, they even have a homeowner version of their homeworks software.



Maybe so, but they don't provide homeowner access to their website to download the RA2 software. I designed and installed an original RA system in a 1700 SQ FT townhouse and programmed it manually. Even used the klugey RS-232 to Ethernet interface to link to a computer and control via 3rd party software.


But my RA2 system has too many dimmers, switches, and keypads to try to program manually, even though I've laid out all of the scene and zone logic myself. If my installer hadn't left me with a copy of the software, I would have no way to get it (or to your point, I'm just not smart enough). There is no way that I can see for an average homeowner to do this as a DIY without the aid of someone who is licensed to get access to the software. And an authorized installer isn't just going to give you the software for nothing.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/18698772
> 
> 
> . And an authorized installer isn't just going to give you the software for nothing.



I will check but I believe an installer can provide level 1 software to a homeowner after installation.


----------



## htguruwannab

I have a ra2 main repeater for sale...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=13916 


I didn't realize the new architecture had a main repeater and aux repeater. I ordered 2 main repeaters thinking I could set one as an aux like in original ra. I was mistaken and my mistake could be your gain!


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htguruwannab* /forum/post/18875954
> 
> 
> I have a ra2 main repeater for sale...
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=13916
> 
> 
> I didn't realize the new architecture had a main repeater and aux repeater. I ordered 2 main repeaters thinking I could set one as an aux like in original ra. I was mistaken and my mistake could be your gain!



HTguru


Have you upgraded your ra repeater to the latest firmware?


I noticed on mine that the new firmware doesn't return a response when you query for the LED status of the main repeaters integration button led's.


So, for example


?device,1,101,9

should return the led state of button 1 on the main repeater like so

~device,1,101,1 or ~device,1,101,0


If you have upgraded to the latest firmware could you telnet into your main repeater and run the first ? command listed and see if you get a response?


----------



## htguruwannab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/18876824
> 
> 
> HTguru
> 
> 
> Have you upgraded your ra repeater to the latest firmware?
> 
> 
> I noticed on mine that the new firmware doesn't return a response when you query for the LED status of the main repeaters integration button led's.
> 
> 
> So, for example
> 
> 
> ?device,1,101,9
> 
> should return the led state of button 1 on the main repeater like so
> 
> ~device,1,101,1 or ~device,1,101,0
> 
> 
> If you have upgraded to the latest firmware could you telnet into your main repeater and run the first ? command listed and see if you get a response?



Yes, I have upgraded to the latest firmware.


When I telnet and run the ? command I do not get any response. Just a blank line and a return to the gnet prompt.


Sure you don't need another main repeater? Make me an offer!


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htguruwannab* /forum/post/18881175
> 
> 
> Yes, I have upgraded to the latest firmware.
> 
> 
> When I telnet and run the ? command I do not get any response. Just a blank line and a return to the gnet prompt.
> 
> 
> Sure you don't need another main repeater? Make me an offer!



I wrote a support ticket for Lutron. I doubt they intended to nix that query/response.


----------



## user12345678

I am pretty sure the way you get to the 200 device limit is by using two main repeaters, but you have to be level 2 certified to set it up....


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5* /forum/post/18881283
> 
> 
> I am pretty sure the way you get to the 200 device limit is by using two main repeaters, but you have to be level 2 certified to set it up....



Correct.


----------



## htguruwannab

I actually don't need more than 100 devices. I just need more coverage than 1 repeater will provide.


Anyone want to trade a main repeater for an auxillary repeater?


----------



## 3no

Lutron newbie here. I have an existing HT setup which currently uses Insteon for control of two lighting circuits (cans and sconces) and one relay (inline duct fan for rack enclosure exhaust). The Insteon stuff has been the least reliable part of the control system, so I'm looking to replace it with *reliable* radio-based dimmers/relay and an IP or RS-232 based interface.


Radio Ra2 seems ideal, if somewhat pricey, but after reading all 219 posts I'm still not clear if I'll be able (competency issues aside) to configure even my simple system without the distribution-restricted software. I think that all I need to do is to learn the Integration ID of each device, then build the appropriate OUTPUT commands. And should be able to do that via telnet, from Fiasco's very informative posts. Is it that straight forward?


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## Fiasco

The system has to be programmed w/ software to use rs232 or Ethernet commands.


----------



## user12345678




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *htguruwannab* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I actually don't need more than 100 devices. I just need more coverage than 1 repeater will provide.
> 
> 
> Anyone want to trade a main repeater for an auxillary repeater?



Did someone make this trade with you?


----------



## Neurorad

3no- call a few local installers, find out if any of them will provide the SW, if you buy devices from them, or do the initial install.


Or, try contacting some pros via PM.


----------



## spiwrx

Just an FYI, from a Lutron wholesale Dealer, if you bug your local Lutron Rep. enough and have a 1/2 day for training you can get the software yourself for free, and usually a free lunch as well...


If you are in Southern California or can get here we have regular trainings at the 'Lutron Experience Center' in Irvine. I believe there is also one in NY and FL. (_edit_ & PA)


Either way if your dealer can muster enough people they will come to their shop and do a training. Start bugging them!!!

[email protected]


----------



## Neurorad

I'm not so sure about that, spiwrx. I doubt Lutron would piss off all their installers, to satisfy a handful of DIYers.


If you look at the problems the pro installers have had, described in various threads, they're usually not the run-of-the-mill difficulties. The Lutron reps, nor tech support, don't want to deal with a multitude of calls from amateurs.


The RA2 course is 2 days, BTW.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19016589
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure about that, spiwrx. I doubt Lutron would piss off all their installers, to satisfy a handful of DIYers.
> 
> 
> If you look at the problems the pro installers have had, described in various threads, they're usually not the run-of-the-mill difficulties. The Lutron reps, nor tech support, don't want to deal with a multitude of calls from amateurs.
> 
> 
> The RA2 course is 2 days, BTW.



Agreed. The installer is supposed to be the support point of contact, thus the required training.


----------



## BradKas

Really, for the installation of a intuitive lighting control system, you want someone with experience in design and programming. Having consistent led feedback and keypad button layout is important and could be challenging with no 'training'.


I find there are a lot of 'just because you can, doesn't mean you should' with lighting control. These systems should be kept very simple and intuitive. (imo)


----------



## spiwrx

I have to agree with you, however some of the DIY people I meet from AVS, are far more educated than many so called 'installers' I deal with every day. I Just don't think you should generalize like that.


The Ra2 system is intuitive and easy enough for most DIY to do basic lighting control. Beyond basic functionality, sourcing a more experienced installer could be beneficial.


Lutron has expressed no limits or prerequisites to us about who can attend L1 RA2 training. Ultimately they want to sell the stuff, and who better to sell it than people educated on it and own it.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/19020755
> 
> 
> I have to agree with you, however some of the DIY people I meet from AVS, are far more educated than many so called 'installers' I deal with every day. I Just don't think you should generalize like that.



I was thinking the same thing when I saw the original post....











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/19020755
> 
> 
> The Ra2 system is intuitive and easy enough for most DIY to do basic lighting control. Beyond basic functionality, sourcing a more experienced installer could be beneficial.



Then again, some DIY's will want to take the RA2 further than some installers will want to go (at least for any reasonable price). The whole system is very well designed and easy to program. It's the kind of thing you could play with for hours on end, tweaking bits here and there until you get everything perfect. (Now if only they'd get a fan controller released...)


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19022182
> 
> 
> Then again, some DIY's will want to take the RA2 further than some installers will want to go (at least for any reasonable price). The whole system is very well designed and easy to program. It's the kind of thing you could play with for hours on end, tweaking bits here and there until you get everything perfect. (Now if only they'd get a fan controller released...)



I can verify this. I had a system installed with 20 dimmers and lamp controllers, 5 motion detectors, and 5 in-wall keypads and 3 remotes. The installer did the electrical work and the initial programming but left me with a copy. I used the system for a few weeks and made notes of everything I wanted to change or add. I then used the software with about a 30 minute demo from my installer (no class) to make the changes. I wasn't totally happy with the results, so I've done 4 versions of changes. Now that I'm satisfied and I've had a chance to use it for a couple months to ensure that everything works as expected (those All Off functions are the hardest to get right), I've finalized the keypad labels and we're getting those ordered this week.


For lighting control, the software is pretty easy, certainly no more difficult than most of the DIY software out there. It may not have a drag and drop interface like some, but the programming logic and principals are the same.


----------



## 3no

My simple DIY project is making progress, but I'm stuck. I've installed and set up the devices (2 dimmers and a switch) and the main repeater using the software. They work just fine.


My problem is on the IP integration. I have the correct commands, as they work via telnet, but my IP controller (iRule) is not connecting to the main repeater. I have the correct IP address for the main repeater, but the controller wants to know the port. No where in the Essentials software, telnet info or googling the web can I find any info on an IP port for the main repeater.


Any advice greatly appreciated.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *3no* /forum/post/19049028
> 
> 
> My simple DIY project is making progress, but I'm stuck. I've installed and set up the devices (2 dimmers and a switch) and the main repeater using the software. They work just fine.
> 
> 
> My problem is on the IP integration. I have the correct commands, as they work via telnet, but my IP controller (iRule) is not connecting to the main repeater. I have the correct IP address for the main repeater, but the controller wants to know the port. No where in the Essentials software, telnet info or googling the web can I find any info on an IP port for the main repeater.



If you have been using just a regular Telent client to test then, by default it is connecting on port 25. You tried that?


----------



## 3no




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19049378
> 
> 
> If you have been using just a regular Telent client to test then, by default it is connecting on port 25. You tried that?



I've tried port 23 (which is the default telnet post), and the iRule app says it's connected, but the main repeater isn't responding to #DEVICE commands. Which makes sense, as coming in on port 23 the iRule app (or any control software) would need to open a telnet session with login/password just to send a command.


Is port 23 telnet protocol the only IP integration entry into the main repeater?


----------



## user12345678

Port 23 is correct. After you get connected, you will have to send the username and password before you can send commands or receive monitoring status.... The main repeater just needs a line feed and carriage return sent between the username and password (terminated with the same - just like all the commands), so you can actually send it as one initialization string without any pause or wait..


I have written a two way interface with my RadioRA2 system and iPad that supports all the (working and non-working) integration commands WITH full logic and also a database that allows for dynamic scene generation/play back plus recording of all system usage (primarily to show historical system usage graphically). Does irule support two communication, or just the ability to send commands?


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *3no* /forum/post/19049788
> 
> 
> I've tried port 23 (which is the default telnet post), and the iRule app says it's connected, but the main repeater isn't responding to #DEVICE commands. Which makes sense, as coming in on port 23 the iRule app (or any control software) would need to open a telnet session with login/password just to send a command.
> 
> 
> Is port 23 telnet protocol the only IP integration entry into the main repeater?



Sorry, 25 is FTP isn't it, been a while since I had to worry....


I would have sworn the Integration guide had an example showing sending userid and password but I can't find it. I suppose you could try removing the Telnet userid and password altogether from the Integration Settings, if only to see if that will do the trick? I plan on doing my own touch screen programming starting sometime soon so I'll also be chasing this.


----------



## mhdiab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5* /forum/post/19050215
> 
> 
> Port 23 is correct. After you get connected, you will have to send the username and password before you can send commands or receive monitoring status.... The main repeater just needs a line feed and carriage return sent between the username and password (terminated with the same - just like all the commands), so you can actually send it as one initialization string without any pause or wait..
> 
> 
> I have written a two way interface with my RadioRA2 system and iPad that supports all the (working and non-working) integration commands WITH full logic and also a database that allows for dynamic scene generation/play back plus recording of all system usage (primarily to show historical system usage graphically). Does irule support two communication, or just the ability to send commands?



I was looking at RadioRA2 stuff and found this thread. As I didn't see an answer to this question I figured I can start here with providing answers










Irule does currently not support 2-way. It has been promised as an upcoming future by the developers (active here on AVS). It was delayed as the ipad came out sooner than they had originally intended and for obvious reasons it was more important to put out a product for the ipad and get that customer base.


So it is coming and super excited about it then I will add lightning stuff


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhdiab* /forum/post/19073894
> 
> 
> I was looking at RadioRA2 stuff and found this thread. As I didn't see an answer to this question I figured I can start here with providing answers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Irule does currently not support 2-way. It has been promised as an upcoming future by the developers (active here on AVS). It was delayed as the ipad came out sooner than they had originally intended and for obvious reasons it was more important to put out a product for the ipad and get that customer base.
> 
> 
> So it is coming and super excited about it then I will add lightning stuff



iRule doesn't but CommandFusion does!


Here is my RA page from my iPad home controller. Left column is individual ra switches, mid column is dimming slider, right column is group or scene buttons. The lighting control columns are scrollable (I have 20 or so dimmers/switches)


----------



## archbid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/19075200
> 
> 
> iRule doesn't but CommandFusion does!
> 
> 
> Here is my RA page from my iPad home controller. Left column is individual ra switches, mid column is dimming slider, right column is group or scene buttons. The lighting control columns are scrollable (I have 20 or so dimmers/switches)



Does CommandFusion require Crestron?


----------



## Fiasco

No cf can talk to pretty much anything


----------



## Neurorad

Anyone know if the RA2 packages are vendor-specific, or Lutron driven?


For example, Classic RA had the 'Safe Entry Package', which seemed pretty standard across vendors.


----------



## Fiasco

Lutron, but a vendor could put a package together if they wanted


----------



## Neurorad

found a list of packages in the RA2 Excel Quick Quote Tool


Foundation Package

Single Room Starter Package

Single Room Starter Package Plus


Any idea of what's included in the 'Single Room Starter Package Plus' that isn't included in the 'Single Room Starter Package'?


I can find the Foundation Package description readily online, on several sites.


And, found the Single room list (RR-SINGLE-HT2-WH), using google; found it on page 7 of this thread, actually.


----------



## Neurorad

new programming software update


supports the 3-wire fluorescent dimmer I need to use


woot


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19109788
> 
> 
> new programming software update
> 
> 
> supports the 3-wire fluorescent dimmer I need to use



Something other than the 10ND I take it? Haven't seen any new docs on their site, but the site in general seems to lag a month or two on everything...


----------



## bayshoresupply

The new software adds the 3-wire fluorescent dimmer for Lutron Compact SE/ Hi-Lume fluorescent ballasts or older Advance ballasts (Mark 5?). Plus the Hi-Lume LED drivers use the 3-wire fluorescent dimmers too. Now if Lutron will release a 2-wire dimmer for Advance Mark 10 ballasts in our recessed cans......


For those that are L1/L2 or have access to the updated software, it updates the main repeater to have support of the new iPhone app! I installed it and it works pretty decent, but then again my showroom only has 8 loads....


----------



## ksalno

I can connect to the master repeater using a CAT5 cable connected to my PC. Essentials can see the master repeater and I can transfer programming to it. However, when I connect the same repeater to a network hub and try to connect to it over the LAN, Essentials can't find it. I am using DHCP set to True but the repeater does not seem to be picking up an address or gateway on the LAN.


I tried setting the DHCP parameter to False and using a static address but Essentials won't let me set an address within the address space of the LAN. It only allows a narrow range of addresses that don't work on this LAN.


I've tried everything I can think of to get the master repeater to work over the LAN. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.


----------



## user12345678

My first thought is that you need to renew you dhcp lease on your computer. I would cycle power on the router with both the computer and repeater off. Wait a few minutes and then power each back on.


----------



## 3no

I'm having trouble programming the CCI on a VCRX, specifically I can't get "Open" to select. It behaves as if both Open and Close are selected (i.e. it activates the scene on the contacts closing and again on the contacts opening). What am I doing wrong?


Any advice appreciated.


Thanks.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19114637
> 
> 
> I can connect to the master repeater using a CAT5 cable connected to my PC. Essentials can see the master repeater and I can transfer programming to it. However, when I connect the same repeater to a network hub and try to connect to it over the LAN, Essentials can't find it. I am using DHCP set to True but the repeater does not seem to be picking up an address or gateway on the LAN.
> 
> 
> I tried setting the DHCP parameter to False and using a static address but Essentials won't let me set an address within the address space of the LAN. It only allows a narrow range of addresses that don't work on this LAN.
> 
> 
> I've tried everything I can think of to get the master repeater to work over the LAN. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.



Perhaps a remote possibility: if you are connecting directly from the repeater to the PC then the cable you are using are likely using a cross over cable. If you are trying to use the same cable when connecting via the LAN it won't work, you need a regular cable (as opposed to a cross over cable). Have you tried swapping cables?


----------



## bayshoresupply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19114637
> 
> 
> However, when I connect the same repeater to a network hub and try to connect to it over the LAN, Essentials can't find it.



I don't know if you really meant router or you used a network hub. A hub doesn't have DHCP and it wouldn't assign a IP to your computer or your main repeater. I would say find a router that has DHCP and let it assign a new IP to your computer and your main repeater and try it again.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19114637
> 
> 
> I tried setting the DHCP parameter to False and using a static address but Essentials won't let me set an address within the address space of the LAN. It only allows a narrow range of addresses that don't work on this LAN.



I ran into this problem also when I tried to move the main repeater to a new router. It seems like the main repeater likes to stay on the upper end of the IP range (ie 192.168.0.199 or 5.1.10.199). I say let it do what it does. When its on the upper range of the IP its not as likely to conflict with other devices when the DHCP renews.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19115455
> 
> 
> Perhaps a remote possibility: if you are connecting directly from the repeater to the PC then the cable you are using are likely using a cross over cable. If you are trying to use the same cable when connecting via the LAN it won't work, you need a regular cable (as opposed to a cross over cable). Have you tried swapping cables?



Actually both cables are regular CAT5 ethernet cables but I do have two different cables, one from the PC and one from the hub.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/19115949
> 
> 
> I don't know if you really meant router or you used a network hub. A hub doesn't have DHCP and it wouldn't assign a IP to your computer or your main repeater. I would say find a router that has DHCP and let it assign a new IP to your computer and your main repeater and try it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ran into this problem also when I tried to move the main repeater to a new router. It seems like the main repeater likes to stay on the upper end of the IP range (ie 192.168.0.199 or 5.1.10.199). I say let it do what it does. When its on the upper range of the IP its not as likely to conflict with other devices when the DHCP renews.



This is a fairly large network with a number of computers, DVRs, wireless APs, and A/V equipment connected. The repeater is connected to an 8 port hub/switch located in an A/V rack on the main floor that is in turn connected through a patch panel into the FIOS router in the basement. I know the switch works and the router is assigning IP addresses just fine to all of the other equipment that is attached to the same hub, so there is no connectivity problem.


This network is using 192.168.82.xxx with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. When trying to assign a static IP, the repeater will only accept something in the range of 169.254.205.1xx - .250 or something like that, so it's way outside the address space of the LAN.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/19111570
> 
> 
> The new software adds the 3-wire fluorescent dimmer for Lutron Compact SE/ Hi-Lume fluorescent ballasts or older Advance ballasts (Mark 5?). Plus the Hi-Lume LED drivers use the 3-wire fluorescent dimmers too. Now if Lutron will release a 2-wire dimmer for Advance Mark 10 ballasts in our recessed cans......



You had me worried there. I'm about to order the Eco-10 dimmable fluorescent ballast for use with RA2. Had to go check the RA2 Dimmer spec sheet, dated 5.24.10:


Fluorescent Dimmer Load Type: -F6AN-DV is designed for use with permanently installed 3-wire 120 V or 277 V line voltage control fluorescent ballasts or LED drivers. Use only with Hi-lume®, Hi-lume® 3D, Compact SETM, *Eco-10®*, or Ecosystem® (H3D-, FDB-, ECO-, HL3-, EC5-, L3D). Do NOT use with any other ballasts or drivers. Do not install to control receptacles or motor-operated appliances.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19116494
> 
> 
> Actually both cables are regular CAT5 ethernet cables but I do have two different cables, one from the PC and one from the hub.



OK, I'm confused. How were you connecting directly to the PC?


----------



## user12345678

I think (but not 100%) the main repeater will automatically detect a direct connection and eliminate the need for a crossover cable.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5* /forum/post/19117729
> 
> 
> I think (but not 100%) the main repeater will automatically detect a direct connection and eliminate the need for a crossover cable.



Yeah, that's does seem vaguely familiar...


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19117692
> 
> 
> OK, I'm confused. How were you connecting directly to the PC?



I connect the PC to the repeater with a standard CAT5 cable. I have to disable the wireless network, otherwise Essentials gets confused over which network link to use and will report that it can't find the repeater. Once I do that, I can communicate with the repeater over the direct cable connection. I don't think my PC is set up as a DHCP server, so it must work just because it's a peer to peer connection with two devices so they don't need IP addresses to communicate.


----------



## bayshoresupply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19116546
> 
> 
> You had me worried there. I'm about to order the Eco-10 dimmable fluorescent ballast for use with RA2. Had to go check the RA2 Dimmer spec sheet, dated 5.24.10:
> 
> 
> Fluorescent Dimmer Load Type: -F6AN-DV is designed for use with permanently installed 3-wire 120 V or 277 V line voltage control fluorescent ballasts or LED drivers. Use only with Hi-lume®, Hi-lume® 3D, Compact SETM, *Eco-10®*, or Ecosystem® (H3D-, FDB-, ECO-, HL3-, EC5-, L3D). Do NOT use with any other ballasts or drivers. Do not install to control receptacles or motor-operated appliances.



Sorry if I was confusing. The ballasts I listed were just from the top of my head. Its great that Lutron is releasing so many products this year but I just wish they were releasing the ones I need ASAP!


----------



## Dan G.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19116546
> 
> 
> You had me worried there. I'm about to order the Eco-10 dimmable fluorescent ballast for use with RA2. Had to go check the RA2 Dimmer spec sheet, dated 5.24.10:
> 
> 
> Fluorescent Dimmer Load Type: -F6AN-DV is designed for use with permanently installed 3-wire 120 V or 277 V line voltage control fluorescent ballasts or LED drivers. Use only with Hi-lume®, Hi-lume® 3D, Compact SETM, *Eco-10®*, or Ecosystem® (H3D-, FDB-, ECO-, HL3-, EC5-, L3D). Do NOT use with any other ballasts or drivers. Do not install to control receptacles or motor-operated appliances.



I am in the rough-in stage of a very large home renovation project. I will be using RA2 for my lighting automation. I am putting cfl in the kitchen for Title 24 requirements. I would love to be able to dim these but am told by the electrician that the compact fluorescents need to be switched.


At this point only the cans are in the ceiling. What can I do/should I do at this point to be able to dim those cfls on the RA2 system? For example, product list or information on the internet to point the electrician to.


Thanks in advance,


Dan


----------



## bayshoresupply

Yes you can dim CFLs! But since your cans are already installed it may be a little too late because the ballasts are pre-installed in the can. Unless you can replace the housings with housings that have dimmable ballasts then you're stuck switching those lights.


What Lutron has released is a 3-wire fluorescent dimmer that isn't compatible with what we carry (Elco/Halo/Elite). I know we can special order Elite recessed housings with Lutron Compact SE ballasts that would work with the new RRD-F6AN-DV dimmer.


----------



## Dan G.

I just checked. I have 8 Elco Luminaire 26w CFL 120v housings with Ambistar REB-126-M6-BLS ballasts on the kitchen.


I suppose my first question is whether these are dimmable or not (kinda already know that answer). And the second question is whether the ballasts can be replaced or not with dimmable RA2 compatible ballasts (again, kinda already know the answer). That said, what options do I have at this point if I'd like to dim these CFLs on the RadioRA2 system? What's already installed could be boxed up and replaced if my electrician plays nice.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes you can dim CFLs! But since your cans are already installed it may be a little too late because the ballasts are pre-installed in the can. Unless you can replace the housings with housings that have dimmable ballasts then you're stuck switching those lights.
> 
> 
> What Lutron has released is a 3-wire fluorescent dimmer that isn't compatible with what we carry (Elco/Halo/Elite). I know we can special order Elite recessed housings with Lutron Compact SE ballasts that would work with the new RRD-F6AN-DV dimmer.


----------



## bayshoresupply

Well it looks like you kinda know the answer..







An easier way is to swap out all the ballasts for the Lutron 3-wire ballasts. I've supplied a couple jobs in that same situation where the housings went up and it all got rocked up and then they decided to swap to dimmable. Order up the ballasts and its a matter of time to reach in and swap out the ballasts.


Your electrician may not want to take them back no because he doesnt want to be nice but cause us supply houses dont like to take back materials that have already been installed.


----------



## Dan G.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well it looks like you kinda know the answer..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An easier way is to swap out all the ballasts for the Lutron 3-wire ballasts. I've supplied a couple jobs in that same situation where the housings went up and it all got rocked up and then they decided to swap to dimmable. Order up the ballasts and its a matter of time to reach in and swap out the ballasts.



Haven't sheetrocked yet. Can you tell me how much the Lutron 3-wire ballasts are? PM me if more appropriate.


----------



## Neurorad

Would be great if you didn't have to replace your ballasts, Dan. CALL Lutron's famous tech support, see what they say.


----------



## Dan G.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19124944
> 
> 
> Would be great if you didn't have to replace your ballasts, Dan. CALL Lutron's famous tech support, see what they say.



Called tech support. Gentleman was not very convincing with his knowledge. Didn't know of a way to do it without swapping out ballasts with a good end result. However, he did say that it could be done WITH swapping out the ballasts. He mentioned this as a solution:


Dimmer: RRD-10ND

Interface: PHPM-3F-DV-WH (2 gang, installed out of the way somewhere)

Ballast: Did not know part number


He did not specifically mention or know about the new RRD-F6AN-DV dimmer which is why I mention he wasn't convincing with his solution.


I am not opposed to swapping out the ballasts. My preference is to do that, if I have to, before sheetrock goes up. It would be better to be able to accomplish this without replacing the ballasts but I am not sure if that's possible.


Again, thanks to all for sharing their knowledge. Any additional thoughts would be very much appreciated.


----------



## Neurorad

Looks like that solution using the power module would be outdated, now that the fluorescent dimmer is available.


The power module instructions state that the ballast needs to be Lutron. If you're going to replace the ballast, then use the correct dimmer and skip the power module.


I'd have your electrician speak to the local Lutron rep. I can't say enough good things about the local rep here - she's been very patient with me, hasn't lost her temper, and told me to get lost. Yet.










Lutron has a great website for info on controlling LEDs; wish they had one for fluorescents. Maybe they do, and I haven't seen it yet.


Edit: The RA2 Fluorescent Dimmer isn't widely available yet, just being rolled out. Still special order, 1 week lead time. The electrician will need to speak to the distributor, or maybe the rep. Have the electrician speak to the Lutron distributor first, and not the rep.


Edi#2 - I'm not certain about the Power Module - you may still need it with the fluorescent dimmer.


----------



## Dan G.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19125523
> 
> 
> The RA2 Fluorescent Dimmer isn't widely available yet, just being rolled out. Still special order, 1 week lead time. The electrician will need to speak to the distributor, or maybe the rep. Have the electrician speak to the Lutron distributor first, and not the rep.
> 
> 
> Edi#2 - I'm not certain about the Power Module - you may still need it with the fluorescent dimmer.



Where can I find information on the RA2 Fluorescent Dimmer? Seems like they would have documentation somewhere on the Lutron website but I can't seem to find it.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan G.* /forum/post/19126163
> 
> 
> Where can I find information on the RA2 Fluorescent Dimmer? Seems like they would have documentation somewhere on the Lutron website but I can't seem to find it.



Their web site lags horribly. They still have the summer education schedule on it though all the dates listed have passed. I know the owner of the company that built the site, but I don't think they do the content. None-the-less I plan to bug him about it. :evil-grin:


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19126422
> 
> 
> Their web site lags horribly. They still have the summer education schedule on it though all the dates listed have passed. I know the owner of the company that built the site, but I don't think they do the content. None-the-less I plan to bug him about it. :evil-grin:



The fluorescent dimmer specs are included with the latest revision of the RA2 Dimmer Spec sheet, dated 5/24/10. It's been there, just hard to find.


3-Wire Fluorescent/LED (120-277V) RRD-F6AN-DV-XX* 6 A Neutral Wire Dimmer

http://resi.lutron.com/LinkClick.asp...d=584&mid=1450 


Have the electrician call the distributor.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19127380
> 
> 
> The fluorescent dimmer specs are included with the latest revision of the RA2 Dimmer Spec sheet, dated 5/24/10. It's been there, just hard to find.
> 
> 
> 3-Wire Fluorescent/LED (120-277V) RRD-F6AN-DV-XX* 6 A Neutral Wire Dimmer
> 
> http://resi.lutron.com/LinkClick.asp...d=584&mid=1450



Your link appears to be pointing at a page requiring a registered userid... You wouldn't perhaps know of anything a normal consumer can look at?


Edit: never mind, I found it Technical Documentation & Support 

they've updated the Wall-Mounted Dimmers and Switches documentation here also.


The web site is rather hard to use :-(


----------



## Neurorad

No, I was afraid of that. I googled the part, and no luck elsewhere either.


The distributor will have access - the person selling you the RA2 devices.


PM me tomorrow if no luck, and I'll email the pdf to you. No time in the next 5 hours, sorry.


----------



## spiwrx

@Dan G., I sent you info on the RRD-F6AN & ballasts in a PM. Please let me know if you have any questions....


----------



## bayshoresupply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan G.* /forum/post/19125285
> 
> 
> Dimmer: RRD-10ND
> 
> Interface: PHPM-3F-DV-WH (2 gang, installed out of the way somewhere)
> 
> Ballast: Did not know part number



This sounds like the work-around they usually give when there is no available wallbox dimmer solution.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan G.* /forum/post/19125285
> 
> 
> He did not specifically mention or know about the new RRD-F6AN-DV dimmer which is why I mention he wasn't convincing with his solution.



Typical right now because these dimmers are still in production and there may not be company wide knowledge of the dimmer yet. I had a similar issue with the "hybrid" dimmer (RRD-H6BRL). No one could get me a straight answer about pricing and availibility until moments before the official launch of the product.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan G.* /forum/post/19125285
> 
> 
> I am not opposed to swapping out the ballasts. My preference is to do that, if I have to, before sheetrock goes up. It would be better to be able to accomplish this without replacing the ballasts but I am not sure if that's possible.



I've sent you a PM with the ballast pricing. I've never sold Lutron online before so I don't know what the pricing is online. Thats my standard cost for my contractors. Please do check with your inspector beforehand. Some inspectors are picky and won't let this fly. The jobs I did the inspectors and electricians were OK with swapping the ballasts.


Please also know that you need to run new wiring up there. Need a 3-wire up there so 14-3 or 12-3. 3-wire dimming uses a Hot, Neutral and a dimmed Hot.


----------



## MrWindupBird

I am seriously considering a RA2 automation system for my modest house (3 rooms to start with) - however I have hit a road block in my design...


My main living room has a fan/light combo - what are you guys doing to control fans? My fan has a wall mounted wireless controller. Uhg. Actually, I don't really give a rats as# about automated control of the fan, but light control is a deal breaker...


Any idea if Lutron is releasing a RA2 fan controller?


Here is the fan:

Minka F679-CH Ceiling Fan


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MrWindupBird* /forum/post/19164063
> 
> 
> Any idea if Lutron is releasing a RA2 fan controller?



I asked this question to the tech support people and reportedly there is something similar to the Maestro Fan Control in the works, but no ideas as to when it might be available (don't hold your breath). In the mean time, for two of our fans we are able to get into the attic above them, and the power feed is from the attic. For the moment, the lights have a standard dimmer mounted in a box in the attic controlling them (and the power is run separately to the switch on the wall that controls the fan itself). You can't control the fan light dimmer directly, but we have 3 other keypads controlling them. From what I understand the new 3 wire dimmer can control motor loads but I don't have any real need for it. I still have two other ceiling fans that I'd like to control but no current solution.


----------



## MrWindupBird




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19164449
> 
> 
> I asked this question to the tech support people and reportedly there is something similar to the Maestro Fan Control in the works, but no ideas as to when it might be available (don't hold your breath). In the mean time, for two of our fans we are able to get into the attic above them, and the power feed is from the attic. For the moment, the lights have a standard dimmer mounted in a box in the attic controlling them (and the power is run separately to the switch on the wall that controls the fan itself). You can't control the fan light dimmer directly, but we have 3 other keypads controlling them. From what I understand the new 3 wire dimmer can control motor loads but I don't have any real need for it. I still have two other ceiling fans that I'd like to control but no current solution.



Actually, I might be able to do the same thing - put a dimmer in the attic above the fan... Great idea! That just seems kinda janky in relation to everything else Lutron...


Why are automated shades more important that fans? Seriously... Don't all modern homes include fans or is this just a southern thing?


----------



## MrWindupBird

Pricing help...


My dealer quoted me a $4k install with straight-up MSRP pricing for all components. Is this normal for RadioRA2? Installation fee was around $500 - which I feel is quite reasonable.


Is this stuff too new for any discounting at all? Obviously I can get cheaper online, but I feel there is an advantage to creating a relationship with a local dealer - its just that I wasn't really expecting straight-up MSRP for everything.


----------



## spiwrx

The fan controller is speculation, and I wouldn't hold my breath. But I have heard the same thing. They are coming out with new product more so than ever, but for now we still have the remote mounted dimmer and switch.


@MrWindupBird... You have a good point on establishing a relationship with your installer, but if he is not willing to discount I would get another quote. I would expect some markup by your installer for his time to plan, order, pick-up & deliver, and in some cases finance your material. However, I don't think it would be un-heard of to request to purchase your own materials. PM me if you would like me to quote materials, or give your installer my email ([email protected]), perhaps his supply house isn't giving him any deals.


----------



## Neurorad

Sure, MrWindupBird, he'll give you a discount on parts.


But, he'll charge you $800 more on installation.


The guy has to make enough money to feed his kids, one way or the other.


I wish more pro installers would charge wholesale for parts, and stick it to me on the install. Clearly, I want to pay for a good install, and not a markup on materials. It's psychological, but I can't be the only one who feels this way.


----------



## bayshoresupply

@MrWindupBird Try to look for a EVAD, Lutron's terms electrical value-added distributor. They get better pricing than standard stocking distributors and usually have a couple people in-house that are certified with the software and should be savvy with the RA2 stuff.


I know because we are an EVAD and I'm the RA2 savvy guy of the house


----------



## MrWindupBird

Thanks for all the replies... I think I am with @Neurorad on this - in that he has quoted a fairly low install fee and is making up for it with MSRP pricing.


This is probably a fairly small installation for him (about 12 dimmers/switches, 1 repeater, 2 keypads) - so doesn't really fit in the quantity discount category.


How do you guys handle the whole Essentials Software situation? I am not against taking the training but I don't really want to wait around for 6 months for it to come around my area - what I really want to avoid is doing the entire install and then having one or two lights that need adjusting - and then having to go through all the trouble of scheduling an appointment for them to drive all the way out to my house just to make a few minor adjustments.


I plan on doing some custom integration with an iPad - and one the main reasons I have started down the RA2 path is the openness and simplicity of its integration protocol.


----------



## BradKas

A 500 dollar install fee for your system as described is quite low.

We charge 1.5 hours per device for Ra2, which includes consultation, design, install, and programming. This would work out to about $1700 for your system.


Be careful he knows what he is getting into, because there is some hidden labor in first month call backs, and getting all the engraving in order.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/19170689
> 
> 
> A 500 dollar install fee for your system as described is quite low.
> 
> We charge 1.5 hours per device for Ra2, which includes consultation, design, install, and programming. This would work out to about $1700 for your system.
> 
> 
> Be careful he knows what he is getting into, because there is some hidden labor in first month call backs, and getting all the engraving in order.



You are right on the engraving and first month reprogram call backs. I do not do engravings for 2 to 3 months after the install because once done it's set (unless the client wants to pay for new engravings if the reprogram changes the buttons)


Reprogram is quite the pain right now because you have to return to the site to do it. I've been pestering Lutron about being able to do it remotely. You have to initialize the devices the first time but there should be no reason to have to return to the site to do a reprogram.


----------



## BradKas

Yeah, Lutron will just say a return to site is an opportunity to sell more Ra2 gear, haha.


Sort of misses the point.


----------



## cache




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/19168121
> 
> 
> @MrWindupBird Try to look for a EVAD, Lutron's terms electrical value-added distributor. They get better pricing than standard stocking distributors and usually have a couple people in-house that are certified with the software and should be savvy with the RA2 stuff.
> 
> 
> I know because we are an EVAD and I'm the RA2 savvy guy of the house



how does one go about locating an EVAD?


----------



## bayshoresupply

^ Good point. I played around with Lutron's dealer locator and it doesn't give that as an option.


Looks like Lutron tricked me as they said that they would distinguish EVADs out for design help etc etc.


----------



## Neurorad

Call Lutron Tech Support to find out if they distinguish EVADs from regular distributors, and to find a local EVAD.


This seems like a good place to mention my RA2 install. Electrician wired in RA2 switch and dimmer for me yesterday, after wiring in 6 new fixtures.


When he finished, I had to pull the switch and break off the fins; dimmer had no fins.


I picked a Lutron screwless double gang switch plate from HD - $7. For a switchplate?!


Best switchplate I've ever installed, worth the $7. Designed with holes for easy tightening of the switch screws, must be patented. Outstanding product.


I was a little disappointed with the new fluorescent dimmer - dims to about 20%, I guess that's standard for dimmable fluorescents.


Lutron dimmable ballasts are PRICEY, but I'm pleased with the T5HO linear fluorescents.


Now where to place the accessory repeater...


----------



## cache

Not to clutter up this thread with off topic posts.... but those face plates are only like $3 from most wholesale dist. One thing that most diy-ers don't know about electrical is that most wholesale electrical houses don't require a contractor's license for a cash acct. And you will still get great pricing.


----------



## Neurorad

I wish it was that easy.


I went to a local electric supply store first (a Border States shop) - 'Lutron, screwless, double gang, white - sorry, not in stock'


It's where I'm buying my RA2 devices.


They sure have a great selection of finger channel, and the guys at the counter are super friendly, but for a lot of stuff they're terrible.


I bought an electrical panel from them last Thurs, to be used as a subpanel in the wiring closet. Square D QO, panel + cover - $300. Bought a Square D QO panel, same specs (but a few breakers included) from Home Depot the next day for $150. Returned the panel to the electrical distributor yesterday for a refund - and tried to buy the screwless wallplate.


Edit - same prices for everyone at that distributor, electrician confirmed they were overpriced


----------



## bayshoresupply

Lutron ballasts are quite pricey but sometimes you can find an Advance ballasts for a couple dollars less and they work on the same dimming. But the Advance's don't hit that 1% level that some of the Lutron's can..


----------



## spiwrx

I am an EVAD if you have yet to find one...


Also, to the point of dimming fluorescent, definitely go with Lutron. For most lamp types the same quality(%) of dimming is near the same price. Also pre-wire in 12/3 or 14/3. If you are stuck with 2-wire, Some of Lutrons newer "Tu-Wire" Ballasts are getting down to 5%.


This is a good time to point out Dimming percentage vs. perceived light level. Where the actual dimming is more linear your perception of the dimmed light level is more parabolic. In other words you will perceive most of the dimming starting around 40 or 50% and notice the lower levels are actually less than 20%. Cheaper fluorescent dimming ballasts and most screw in dimmable fluorescents dim down to 20-25% But most of us will perceive this as about 50%. So getting to that 5% or 1% is a huge deal, specifically in a theater.


One more tidbit to the point of dimming fluorescent, burn in your lamps at 100% for the first 100hrs, preferably continuous. This will enhance your lamps performance, and lamp life. It's also recommended by Lutron and most lamp manufacturers. It also helps for non-dimming fluorescent.


Lastly if you are ordering dimmable fluorescent fixtures you can usually specify Lutron ballasts from most reputable fixture/can manufacturers, but you will usually find ordering a standard fluorescent and Lutron ballast separately will get you the product faster and usually for the same $$. Caution though some cheaper 'linear ' fixtures may ship with the wrong type of sockets(_shunted - you want non-shunted_) and some recessed cans may need to be modified to simply mount the ballasts(_this is usually means drilling some new mounting screw holes, but can be more involved, explore the different 'case' size/type options from Lutron_).


----------



## Neurorad

yeah, herdfan, bought it at HD










I went with the Lutron Eco10 ballast, saved a few dollars, but limited dimming. Ordered the fixtures with the ballasts, Lutron spec'd for 2 of them. The other 2 were standard ballasts. The fixtures with the Lutron ballasts actually shipped first.


The RA2 dimmers will be easy to swap for most of my switches, but I have some tricky 3-ways that I may need the electrician for. Luckily, found a good local company that has a guy who does many RA and HW installs. He was on site for a bit to explain to the electricians who did my install how to wire the 14/3 to the dimmers. Maybe I'll save some money and use the Pico in-walls for the tougher remote dimmers.


----------



## herdfan

Just out of curiosity, what kind of tricky 3 ways do you have. The Lutron dimmers make wiring multi-ways so simple. Much easier than standard multi-way circuits.


----------



## Neurorad

From what I recall of the install instructions, the primary dimmer had to be the first dimmer on the circuit with accessory dimmers wired down the line. I guess I could figure out the hot coming into the first, shouldn't be too hard with a meter, or even an inductance tester. One of my 3 ways works intermittently, for some reason - need to map the circuit.


I'll worry about it when it's time to install. I want to avoid Pico dimmers when I can - not a fan of changing batteries.


----------



## herdfan

That was the case with RadioRA. HW dimmers do not have this limitation and I am not sure about RA2 dimmers. All the instruction sheet says is Neutral wire dimmers/switches must be on the load end. That would be the last in line. There is not reference to where non-neutral wire devices must be.


It was very handy with HW dimmers and being able to place them anywhere in the chain as it allowed placing them in locations where derating was not necessary. I just wish the remote dimmers and switches had LED's.


----------



## Neurorad

thanks, herdfan


you forced me to go dig up the specs


non-neutral dimmers can be installed in any location in the circuit


neutral dimmers must be installed on the load side


----------



## kevin gilmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/19171221
> 
> 
> Reprogram is quite the pain right now because you have to return to the site to do it



Simple. Take an old computer, put XP on it, set up for remote desktop

add the lutron software, and connect to it and reprogram from anywhere.

Sooner or later the software will be out in the wild anywhere, might

as well be ahead of the curve.


----------



## ksalno

Just an FYI for anyone trying to get a PC communicating with the main repeater via a WiFi connection. We just did this and had a heck of a time figuring out why we could connect fine on a wired connection but on WiFi, Essentials could not find the main repeater. This particular home was equipped with Cisco 1141N wireless access points through out the house. After several weeks of troubleshooting, the problem turns out to be that Essentials uses UDP multi-casting to discover the main repeater. The Cisco WAPs block multicasting in their default configuration. You have to turn off a feature called IGMP snooping in order to get multi-casting to work. This can be done through the Cisco command interface by issuing a "no ip igmp snooping" command. Once we did this on all 4 WAPs, the WiFi connection works like a champ.


----------



## eonibm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/19022182
> 
> 
> I was thinking the same thing when I saw the original post....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, some DIY's will want to take the RA2 further than some installers will want to go (at least for any reasonable price). The whole system is very well designed and easy to program. It's the kind of thing you could play with for hours on end, tweaking bits here and there until you get everything perfect. (Now if only they'd get a fan controller released...)



I am curious why you would want a fan controller? Would this be to turn on a ceiling fan at a certain time? If so why would you want to do that?


Thanks.


----------



## eonibm

I read a post on here that even if you go take the BLAST course and thereby are eligible for the software it goes inactive after 1 year.


Was this true? Is it still true?


----------



## Dan G.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eonibm* /forum/post/19503794
> 
> 
> I am curious why you would want a fan controller? Would this be to turn on a ceiling fan at a certain time? If so why would you want to do that?



I want a fan controller so I can turn them on/off from any keypad on the RA2 system. Controlling their speed (like a dimmer) would be an added bonus.


----------



## eonibm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan G.* /forum/post/19504140
> 
> 
> I want a fan controller so I can turn them on/off from any keypad on the RA2 system. Controlling their speed (like a dimmer) would be an added bonus.



Oh ok, makes sense. Silly me - didn't think of that. I was thinking along the lines that you wanted the fan to be controlled by an automated scene.


----------



## BradKas

And why can you not use a 8a Neutral switch for the fan, with an appropriate dimmer for the fan's light fixtures, controlling both from a keypad? I do agree it is not ideal to loose the speed, and forward/reverse mode of the fan, but it would integrate the loads.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /forum/post/19439481
> 
> 
> Simple. Take an old computer, put XP on it, set up for remote desktop
> 
> add the lutron software, and connect to it and reprogram from anywhere.
> 
> Sooner or later the software will be out in the wild anywhere, might
> 
> as well be ahead of the curve.



And leave a PC at every installation? Not a realistic solution.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/19505086
> 
> 
> And why can you not use a 8a Neutral switch for the fan, with an appropriate dimmer for the fan's light fixtures, controlling both from a keypad? I do agree it is not ideal to loose the speed, and forward/reverse mode of the fan, but it would integrate the loads.



Thats what I did with my bedroom fan.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eonibm* /forum/post/19503794
> 
> 
> I am curious why you would want a fan controller? Would this be to turn on a ceiling fan at a certain time? If so why would you want to do that?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Reasons for a fan control


1) To control from a RA keypad

2) To hide the fan control in a closet

3) 3rd party integration (say turn a fan on automatically when the thermostat is > 72f)


----------



## scientest

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BradKas* 
And why can you not use a 8a Neutral switch for the fan, with an appropriate dimmer for the fan's light fixtures, controlling both from a keypad? I do agree it is not ideal to loose the speed, and forward/reverse mode of the fan, but it would integrate the loads.
The issue in our case is that this is a retrofit with a single gang box for the existing switch. In our case we got lucky with some of the fans in that we have attic access above the fans and power is supplied at the fan. We could put a dimmer in the attic in a box and a switch at the existing location. However, that means the lights can only be controlled from another table top (etc.) control. That works, but a dedicated fan canopy located controller with corresponding fan and light control for the single gang box would be far better.


----------



## kevin gilmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/19505133
> 
> 
> And leave a PC at every installation? Not a realistic solution.



refurb dell pc's cost less than the master repeater. make it part of the

system and part of the service. pays for itself after the first use.

lock it down with a password if you feel you have to hide stuff from

the customer.


If you go with some of the multi-vendor integration you need the

pc anyway.


setup the router with DYNdns and connect to the pc without the

customer needing to get involved.


----------



## BradKas

Setup lighting control as a way for your client to save energy, including an ugly dell that never turns off?


----------



## scientest

Quote:

Originally Posted by *BradKas* 
Setup lighting control as a way for your client to save energy, including an ugly dell that never turns off?
If that's a concern, use some micro MB system with an Atom processor and wake on LAN. You should be able to do that under $300...


----------



## chomperoni

I am currently considering RA2 for my home. The system installer tells me that it is rock solid. However, a friend of ours had nothing but problems with his system that was installed around 5 years ago. I am guessing that it may have been the RA1 version. Has the system been improved dramatically in the last 5 years that it is now completely problem free? My system would be paired with an Elan G system if I move ahead with this.

Any comments are appreciated.


----------



## spiwrx

@chomperoni we are a evad Lutron dealer and have been since Ra was introduced. I can tell you that both the Ra1 and Ra2 are solid. Any issues we have ever had were lag times in the RA1 system when you had to couple 2 systems due to the 32 device limit [_which was really only a slight delay of communication having to pass through the Chronos_]. In Ra2 we start with a 100 device limit [_& can increase to 200_], and have since improved not only programming, but reduced response time (not to mention an bunch more products). Any of the complaints I ever got were from people that didn't understand what they were buying and didn't want to invest a little time into some of the home control concepts or from poorly planned installs. If have any questions don't hesitate to message me.


On another note: I just returned to one of my first RA2 clients to add the iPhone APP and that was way to easy, probably didn't even need me but worried they might mess something up. The app works flawless and intuitively and the individual zone controls were something my customer really liked.


As for the fan-speed control. The work around is the dimmer and switch for now. There is a lot of rumors of a RA2 fan speed control but only time will tell.


----------



## eonibm

I have 1/2 my house on a RadioRA system with the Chronos I bought 5 years ago but it is not fully implemented yet (due to a VERY long renovation project). The switches are just dumb switches right now. I use my iPhone to control my Sonos music system and love it. Now I see that RadioRA 2 is faster, has an iPhone app along with many other nifty features including better integration with the Sivoia blinds I will be getting soon.


I have a few questions:


1. Given only 1/2 my house has the RadioRA switches installed and I am going to want to retrofit the rest of the house with them, might it be better to just sell the RadioRA I have and go to the RadioRA 2? I have about 40 switches total and I guess this is mostly a cost issue and a bit of labour on my part removing and reinstalling the switches which I am quite competent to do.


2. I am very into saving energy and notice that RadioRA 2 will soon have a plug-in appliance module that saves energy by turning off standby power to appliances, etc. Does anyone know anything about this unit and how much it might cost?


3. Does anyone know if I take the course in order to get the RadioRA 2 software, whether this software becomes inactive after a year if you haven't sold any RadioRA 2 systems (I am not a dealer but a contractor doing my own home) as someone reported on here?


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/19513385
> 
> 
> @chomperoni we are a evad Lutron dealer and have been since Ra was introduced. I can tell you that both the Ra1 and Ra2 are solid. Any issues we have ever had were lag times in the RA1 system when you had to couple 2 systems due to the 32 device limit [_which was really only a slight delay of communication having to pass through the Chronos_]. In Ra2 we start with a 100 device limit [_& can increase to 200_], and have since improved not only programming, but reduced response time (not to mention an bunch more products). Any of the complaints I ever got were from people that didn't understand what they were buying and didn't want to invest a little time into some of the home control concepts or from poorly planned installs. If have any questions don't hesitate to message me.
> 
> 
> On another note: I just returned to one of my first RA2 clients to add the iPhone APP and that was way to easy, probably didn't even need me but worried they might mess something up. The app works flawless and intuitively and the individual zone controls were something my customer really liked.
> 
> 
> As for the fan-speed control. The work around is the dimmer and switch for now. There is a lot of rumors of a RA2 fan speed control but only time will tell.



Thanks for the info. It makes me feel better to hear from a veteran like yourself.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chomperoni* /forum/post/19513286
> 
> 
> I am currently considering RA2 for my home. The system installer tells me that it is rock solid. However, a friend of ours had nothing but problems with his system that was installed around 5 years ago. I am guessing that it may have been the RA1 version. Has the system been improved dramatically in the last 5 years that it is now completely problem free? My system would be paired with an Elan G system if I move ahead with this.
> 
> Any comments are appreciated.



Chomperoni,


I am a homeowner, and I have had RadioRA1 installed in a 1700 Sq Ft townhome and RadioRA2 in my primary home. Both systems have been rock solid for me. In fact, I went to RadioRA after a really long struggle with trying to get an X10 system to work. RadioRA is night and day better than any of the X10 systems I tried. I had both systems installed by a Lutron certified installer. The RA1 system I programmed myself manually (~20 devices) and controlled via a PC and HAI.


The RA2 is even better with the master repeater for the control and PC access via Essentials. My installer did all of the initial programming but left me a copy of the software for a couple of weeks so that I could do any tweaking needed. The RA2 is on my home LAN and I can access it via from iPod and iPad via the Lutron app and also with my Savant HA system via their app. The RA2 programming interface is well documented and quite straight forward. So, although I have no experience with Elan, it should be easy to integrate it.


As a customer for 7 years, I can highly recommend this system.


----------



## bayshoresupply

@eonibm


1. Thats a call that you have to make on your own. There are a lot of advantages to go RA2 eg, iPhone/iPad app, integrated timeclock. It may be hard to re-sell the old RA stuff once you swap them out.


2. The Maestro Wireless one has a list price of $100. I assume the list on the RA2 one will be $175.


3. No idea. Thats why I tell my electricians to download the software ASAP.


----------



## eonibm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19518265
> 
> 
> Chomperoni,
> 
> 
> My installer did all of the initial programming but left me a copy of the software for a couple of weeks so that I could do any tweaking needed.



Does this not mean that you could have (or did, lol) just copy the software he left you with and use it to your heart's content as long as you wanted?


----------



## eonibm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bayshoresupply* /forum/post/19519686
> 
> 
> 3. No idea. Thats why I tell my electricians to download the software ASAP.



But I thought it had something to do with the software not working after you have had it for a year (not sure how they inactivate it though)


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eonibm* /forum/post/19520756
> 
> 
> Does this not mean that you could have (or did, lol) just copy the software he left you with and use it to your heart's content as long as you wanted?



The problem is the software is updated regularly, so even if I had a copy it would quickly become obsolete. For example, when I wanted to use the Lutron iPod app, the installer had to come back with a new version of Essentials to enable it. Likewise, when we did some lighting upgrades in the bathroom and switched to LV lights, I had to get a new version of software that supported the LV dimmers.


I don't know if the software times out after a year or not, since the upgrades are more frequent, so after a year, you'd probably be 3 or 4 releases behind the current one.


----------



## herdfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/19523370
> 
> 
> The problem is the software is updated regularly, so even if I had a copy it would quickly become obsolete.



And this will probably be the case for a couple of years. Then the software will become mature and updates will happen less frequently. I know there has only been one update to the HW software I have had (for ipod functionality that I really no longer use) to have in almost 4 years.


----------



## eonibm

Oh well I guess if you have the current version of the software you can at least do most things.


----------



## alanl715




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eonibm* /forum/post/19513515
> 
> 
> I have 1/2 my house on a RadioRA system with the Chronos I bought 5 years ago but it is not fully implemented yet (due to a VERY long renovation project). The switches are just dumb switches right now. I use my iPhone to control my Sonos music system and love it. Now I see that RadioRA 2 is faster, has an iPhone app along with many other nifty features including better integration with the Sivoia blinds I will be getting soon.
> 
> 
> I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> 1. Given only 1/2 my house has the RadioRA switches installed and I am going to want to retrofit the rest of the house with them, might it be better to just sell the RadioRA I have and go to the RadioRA 2? I have about 40 switches total and I guess this is mostly a cost issue and a bit of labour on my part removing and reinstalling the switches which I am quite competent to do.
> 
> 
> 2. I am very into saving energy and notice that RadioRA 2 will soon have a plug-in appliance module that saves energy by turning off standby power to appliances, etc. Does anyone know anything about this unit and how much it might cost?
> 
> 
> 3. Does anyone know if I take the course in order to get the RadioRA 2 software, whether this software becomes inactive after a year if you haven't sold any RadioRA 2 systems (I am not a dealer but a contractor doing my own home) as someone reported on here?



where are u located ?


----------



## eonibm

I'm in Toronto, Canada


----------



## spiwrx

I have a few SINGLE-STR (Starter) packages left over from our latest training (_& they will go quick or at least they did last time_), email [email protected] or message me if you are interested...


Includes:

3x RA-6D-WH

1x RD-RD-WH

1x RRD-H6BRL-WH (Hybrid Master)

1x MAIN-REP-WH


Great price and great components to get started...


----------



## chomperoni




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Chomperoni,
> 
> 
> I am a homeowner, and I have had RadioRA1 installed in a 1700 Sq Ft townhome and RadioRA2 in my primary home. Both systems have been rock solid for me. In fact, I went to RadioRA after a really long struggle with trying to get an X10 system to work. RadioRA is night and day better than any of the X10 systems I tried. I had both systems installed by a Lutron certified installer. The RA1 system I programmed myself manually (~20 devices) and controlled via a PC and HAI.
> 
> 
> 
> As a customer for 7 years, I can highly recommend this system.



Thanks for the comments ksalno, I will need to decide soon.


----------



## jgvp

I have been using Lutron systems in three renovated rooms in my house for at least 9 years years now. Yesterday I happened to visit a local Audio/Video store where I had recently made a purchase and in the course of our conversation a Control4 system was mentioned and was subsequently demonstrated. I wasn't aware of such a system, but the reason I am mentioning it here is that I happened to mention that I already use a Lutron dimmer system for lighting and had only just purchased a remote controlled dimmer, I was led to believe that I would have to replace all the Lutrons with the Control4 lighting switches.


Having read this thread all the way through from start to finish, I now have a more reasonable expectation of still being able to not only use my present Lutron systems but to expand on it.


Do all you Lutron experts know of any reasons why I should or should not still pursue the Control4 ? Thanks.


----------



## Neurorad

Since there are no DIY C4 users, you may not get many responses here. Maybe one of the pros will chime in - but consultation with a local C4 dealer may clear up some confusion.


----------



## jgvp




> Quote:
> but consultation with a local C4 dealer may clear up some confusion.



Thanks, Neurorad, but it was the C4 dealer who originated the confusion. Anyway, I have asked Lutron whether Homeworks QS would negate the need for C4.


----------



## BradKas

C4 can most definitely talk to your RadioRa 2 main repeater, or your Homeworks processor. Despite their rocky relationship they are in fact connectivity partners, and drivers do exist.


----------



## jgvp




> Quote:
> C4 can most definitely talk to your RadioRa 2 main repeater, or your Homeworks processor.



Thanks, BradKas, let's hope that Lutron Support will not only concur but will suggest which one will be better for me to adopt. That is which one will be better for incorporating my Maestros.


----------



## Neurorad

Sorryn jgvp, I had just assumed you were at Best Buy/Magnolia. Talk to some other, perhaps more knowledgable, professional custom integrators.










Prob a bunch in your area.


I know it's stereotyping, but I don't consider salesmen from Best Buy, or any other big box stores, as experienced, generally, as the pros.


----------



## bayshoresupply




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19599741
> 
> 
> Sorryn jgvp, I had just assumed you were at Best Buy/Magnolia. Talk to some other, perhaps more knowledgable, professional custom integrators.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prob a bunch in your area.
> 
> 
> I know it's stereotyping, but I don't consider salesmen from Best Buy, or any other big box stores, as experienced, generally, as the pros.



Quoted for truth! Went to my local, recently renovated Magnolia and they said their shades were "Levitron".


----------



## jgvp

Hi Neurorad:


When it comes to anything Audio/Video or any electronic equipment of any kind, the Best Buys and the Future Shops are the last stores I would even entertain being involved with. My local A/V establishment happens to be equipped from top to bottom with leading edge merchandise and is actually a converted house with everything displayed as it would be installed in your own home. You can't help but salivate when you see it displayed and demonstrated just as it would be in your own home.


I'll have to search around for who would be knowledgable, professional custom integrators in my area. Thanks for the info' anyway.


----------



## Neurorad

C4 seems to be the standard at BB/Magnolia, wrongly assumed, sorry.


Anyone know when the RA2 Appliance Module will ship? Was hoping it would arrive for Christmas.


----------



## ksalno

And what about the HVAC controller? When will that be available?


----------



## jgvp

Looks like I have to resort to asking advice on this one here as I've had no response from Lutron Service.


I have this double wall switch arrangement in the bedroom where one switch is for the bedside table lamps and quite frankly I'm darned if I can find what function the other switch performs. Because of that fact, I bought a Maestro IR switch for the lamps even though it was single pole, which was the only kind the local Home Depot sells anyway. I still maintain the switch is not 3-way for while it is in the same box it is not connected in any way with the other, ( but then I have never been able to get my head around electricity when it become more involved.)


I phoned Lutron on Monday and the guy left me to sort out by elimination the two wires that would be combined for one of two screws on the dimmer. The lights worked but the LEDs didn't and the remote did not function. So Tuesday I called Lutron again and one suggestion was to see if it worked without the black wire and if that failed then to buy a 3-way Maestro IR. Well, it didn't so I wrote to Lutron to ask that since the second switch didn't appear to serve any purpose, could I eliminate it and what was the best way to achieve this. I haven't heard anything back in response, so now I am thinking that maybe Lutron isn't the best way for me to go the "whole house" route after all and that's after using Lutron dimmers, switches and outlets for three rooms in my house so far.


If this isn't the right place to acquire this kind of assistance, please direct me to where this should be directed. Thanks again.


----------



## Neurorad

Sounds like a question related to switch/dimmer wiring, and not RA2.


I suggest you start a new thread in the HA subforum.


----------



## jkv

Perhaps it is a switched outlet. Make sure you check both outlets, they could be split.


----------



## jgvp

I doubt that, jkv, for both two outlets, both top and bottom, are not affected at all by the switch. If anything, as pointed out by others, it must be serving a ceiling light but there's no disc in the ceiling. That reasoning is also bolstered by the fact that there is a similar switch at the top of the staircase on the bedroom landing wall facing that doesn't appear to affect anything except a ceiling light, but again there's no ceiling disc and all the three lights are operated by a Lutron dimmer. The electrician must have been overly considerate, but the more I think of it, you would have thought the building inspector would have queried the lack of ceiling discs to cover the wiring, if in fact there ever was any in both cases. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/19618757
> 
> 
> Sounds like a question related to switch/dimmer wiring, and not RA2.
> 
> 
> I suggest you start a new thread in the HA subforum.





It's not RA2 it is a maestro ir


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgvp* /forum/post/19623988
> 
> 
> I doubt that, jkv, for both two outlets, both top and bottom, are not affected at all by the switch. If anything, as pointed out by others, it must be serving a ceiling light but there's no disc in the ceiling. That reasoning is also bolstered by the fact that there is a similar switch at the top of the staircase on the bedroom landing wall facing that doesn't appear to affect anything except a ceiling light, but again there's no ceiling disc and all the three lights are operated by a Lutron dimmer. The electrician must have been overly considerate, but the more I think of it, you would have thought the building inspector would have queried the lack of ceiling discs to cover the wiring, if in fact there ever was any in both cases. Thanks anyway.



Did you check to see if 120v were at the switch?


----------



## jgvp

I don't follow, Fiasco. Do you mean the actual current ? If you did, everything else attached to those two switches are functioning as before. I've dispensed with the Maestro MIR600 at this location and will look for a spot where a single pole MIRT600 will perform OK. Thanks for your interest.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jgvp* /forum/post/19627771
> 
> 
> I don't follow, Fiasco. Do you mean the actual current ? If you did, everything else attached to those two switches are functioning as before. I've dispensed with the Maestro MIR600 at this location and will look for a spot where a single pole MIRT600 will perform OK. Thanks for your interest.



You said you couldn't locate the load operated by the switch.


First use a voltmeter check for the 120v line wire. Measure between each switch wire to ground. One should give 120v w/ the other being the load.


----------



## spiwrx

For those of you researching and considering RA2 Systems The most economical way to purchase them is in Packages (if they fit into your scheme), they now have 7 Packages but they are not listed on their site(_Packages are only available in White, wall devices only are in Gloss White, Table Lamps Dimmers in Midnight(Satin Black) and Tabletop Keypads in Snow(Satin White)_). The savings typically equate to a free dimmer in the single packages and a free keypad in the larger ones. Listed below are the packages and contents of each. Please message or email if you are interested or call you local RA2 specialist...

*RR-SINGLE-HT-WH*:


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(1) RRD-W6BRL-WH


(3) RRD-6D-WH


(1) RD-RD-WH



*RR-SINGLE-HT2-WH*:


(1) RD-RD-WH


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(1) RRD-3LD-MN


(3) RRD-6D-WH


(1) RRD-W6BRL-WH



*RR-SINGLE-PLS-WH*:


(2) RD-RD-WH


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(1) RRD-10D-WH


(1) RRD-3LD-MN


(4) RRD-6D-WH


(2) RRD-H6BRL-WH



*RR-SINGLE-STR-WH*:


(1) RD-RD-WH


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(3) RRD-6D-WH


(1) RRD-H6BRL-WH



*RR-MULTI-F-WH*:


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(1) RR-AUX-REP-WH


(1) RR-VCRX-WH


(3) RRD-W6BRL-WH


(2) RR-T10RL-SW


(1) RR-T15RL-SW


(7) RRD-6D-WH


(3) RRD-10D-WH


(3) RD-RD-WH


(2) LR-3B-H-SW



*RR-MULTI-FDN-WH*:


(2) LR-3B-H-SW


(3) RD-RD-WH


(1) RR-AUX-REP-WH


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(2) RR-T10RL-SW


(1) RR-VCRX-WH


(2) RRD-10D-WH


(2) RRD-3LD-MN


(6) RRD-6D-WH


(2) RRD-H6BRL-WH


(1) RRD-W6BRL-WH



*RR-MULTI-F2-WH*:


(2) LR-3B-H-SW


(3) RD-RD-WH


(1) RR-AUX-REP-WH


(1) RR-MAIN-REP-WH


(2) RR-T10RL-SW


(1) RR-VCRX-WH


(3) RRD-10D-WH


(2) RRD-3LD-MN


(7) RRD-6D-WH


(2) RRD-W6BRL-WH


This info has been passed down straight from Lutron as of Dec. 2010, however they have not yet been published so parts/pricing may change....


Also, Color change kits are available for all devices and keypads, you can also change color(_wall keypads only_) of the keypads when you do the engraving (all RA2 Keypads come with prepaid engraving). _Engraving only applies to the buttons so tabletop keypads cannot be color changed_


----------



## DarrenGM

Does anyone know the prices for RadioRa2 packages referenced above? I understand they are better than purchasing separately.


Thanks!


----------



## ksalno

Has there been any updates from Lutron on the seeTemp devices for HVAC control? They announced them last year but I've yet to hear anything about availability. There are supposed to be three components: a seeTemp keypad for display and control, a battery-powered temp sensor that can be placed anywhere, and an HVAC controller that connects to the furnace for actual control of the HVAC. Last i heard was April availability. Does anyone have any updates from the factory?


----------



## spiwrx

I don't know about the rest of you, but even being an EVAD we do not get dates or projections from Lutron, sometimes the mention a quarter for new releases, but usually they run behind. Many times it's a days or weeks until we know as they don't run 'press releases' or announcements except in trade publications.


I have a alot of people eagerly awaiting this one, I suspect April/May but it's purely a guess based on the Lutron people we've spoken with...


I'll post up as soon as I know.....


----------



## scientest

I'm pretty sure this has been asked before but I don't recall seeing an answer. Is there any way to back up and restore the Lutron configuration database?


----------



## Luis Guilherme

Ive heard from my dealer that they just release their hvac thermostat.


----------



## kevin gilmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scientest* /forum/post/20332607
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this has been asked before but I don't recall seeing an answer. Is there any way to back up and restore the Lutron configuration database?



copy the .lut or .lutx file to a thumb drive.


----------



## user12345678

I don't think you can pull a configuration from the main repeater if that was the question. Finally, HVAC stuff should be here next week....


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /forum/post/20335191
> 
> 
> copy the .lut or .lutx file to a thumb drive.



That simple? So why do they use SQL Server for running everything? Don't really need an answer to that, I suspect I know the answer, but seems a bit of overkill...


----------



## spiwrx

I've heard they are working on being able to pull the file from the repeater, but at this point if you didn't create it or the homeowner wasn't given a copy you're stuck...




Lutron has finally announced the release of the seeTemp thermostat set for Radio Ra2. Most of you probably already got the email from Lutron, as did I. In it you may have found links and instructions to a webinar that isn't where it is supposed to be. If you follow the link ( Click Here ) you will need to login or register for first time users, then enter the Pin code' = RADIORA2, Then you will find a webinar called Lutron seeTemp Overview for RadioRa2', and click launch. In the email it called out webinars 2011 but I couldn't find it by that name.


Here is a summary to answer most immediate questions:


Basically it will replace most standard 24vac thermostats. There is a pre-qualification checklist on the webinar to see if your system will work with the seeTemp system.


There are 3 basic components:

1. SeeTemp Wall Control (I'll call a keypad, because basically that's all it is - Powers from 120vac or 24vac, can gang with other switches/dimmers/devices)

2. Remote Battery Powered Temperature sensor (Self Explanatory - Placement is key as adverse temperature from exterior walls, other devices, direct sunlight or shading from cabinets, doors etc.. can affect how well this will work - multiple sensors are averaged together to one controller)

3. Controller (multiple controller & sensors can be used for Zoned' systems, The controller(s) will go at the HVAC and in range of the RA2 system)


The wall station is not required if you are using and I-something (phone/pad/touch) or now android. Or if you plan a more complicated integration with 3rd party touch screens. Software version 4.1.xx is required.


The tutorial on the webinar is really boring, but probably great over view on HVAC. If you are not familiar with HVAC, I recommend you watch it all.


We have an initial order placed and several requests. We have yet to get exact pricing but from the webinar list pricing is:

seeTemp Wall control [LRD-WST-F (or C)-XX(Color) ] $199.00

see Temp Wireless Temperature Sensor [LRF2-TWRB-SW (or MN) only snow white or midnight black] $120.00

Thermostat Package [LR-HVAC-PKG-WH (1ea, wall control, sensor, HVAC controller ~ White only)] $599.00

Integration Package [LR-HVAC-INT-SW(or MN) (HVAC controller & Sensor only)] $449.00


For those of you that have placed orders with us, you know we offer a hefty discount of LIST pricing, have the best RA2 pricing, and great support. Please contact me for a quote if you are interested.


----------



## spiwrx

Other usefull seeTemp Links:

Lutron Thermostat Brochure 
FAQs 
HVAC Specification Sheet 
Wireless Temperature Sensor Installation Guide 
seeTemp Wall Control Installation Guide 
HVAC Controller Installation Guide 
Thermostat Integration Protcol


----------



## spiwrx

Also, 1st Android version is now available for Radio RA2:

Android market


----------



## user12345678

I wonder why they issued a pin code for the webinar if you are going to post it...


----------



## kevin gilmore

A number of times now, i have created systems for people on one computer and

then moved just the .lut file to a different machine, and everything works great.


You still have to walk around the house to get the repeater to find all the devices.


If you are looking to extract a setup from an already installed repeater, this

may or may not be possible especially with slave devices like the occupancy

detectors and visor receivers attached. The xml file you can extract has a lot

of the information, but not necessarily all of it. If you know what all the buttons

do on the keypads, you can recreate the setup yourself once you get a copy

of the software. I have already done this once because a previous installer

disappeared. Took about 2 hours to totally recreate the system from scratch.


At a minimum demand that the installer leave you a copy of the .lut or .lutx file.


Using microsoft sql server to manage this is a very over the top, but easy

from a programmer point of view to make this all work easily.

A standalone access runtime would have been a bit easier and less cpu

and ram intensive.


----------



## ksalno

Not having humidity control is a bit of a disappointment. There are other programmable thermostats on the market that can do both HVAC and humidity from a single controller. Of course, they don't have some other the other features.


----------



## spiwrx

@kevin, sure you know this but for those that don't the initial 'walk around' device activation is facilitated with a wifi setup & laptop. If you are wired(network) to your main repeater to a desktop you will get some exercise...


& yes, if you have the files no-problem unless they are really old and you have newer software version. There have been some upgrading problems. & then yes you have to start over...


regardless, the programming is very user friendly/intuitive...


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5* /forum/post/20337023
> 
> 
> I wonder why they issued a pin code for the webinar if you are going to post it...



Anything to make a buck. Probably distributes the software too.


----------



## spiwrx

@shaun5 I have no idea why the trouble with the pin code? You are required to register/login? This information was blasted in an marketing email you should have received if you are signed up for Lutron Updates and an online version is found here for those that didn't receive the email:

http://app.lutron.info/e/es.aspx?s=1...877d1cf4d770e0 


@Fiasco, I wonder why your are attacking me for passing common & publicly available information to assist those that may not yet be aware & share in the education of new products. Furthermore I consider your comments, rude, highly speculative, & ungrounded. I kindly ask you to remove and/or edit them.


----------



## kevin gilmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/20355076
> 
> 
> @kevin, sure you know this but for those that don't the initial 'walk around' device activation is facilitated with a wifi setup & laptop. If you are wired(network) to your main repeater to a desktop you will get some exercise...
> 
> ...



Actually the best way is to use a laptop and wifi to remote desktop

into a decently fast desktop. Even on a stuffed laptop the software

is horribly slow. A result of sql server.


But you might as well get some exersize now as once the system

is installed... instant couch potato, especially with an ipad.


----------



## Neurorad

Thought this would be a good place to add this bit of info I just came across.


Apparently, there is a 'workaround' for the 110V requirement for a dimmer, using an auxiliar power supply. Effectively, you could install a dimmer anywhere, using LV cables and a power supply in the wiring closet.

http://resi.lutron.com/Portals/4/doc...%20Keypads.pdf 


Haven't done it, looks interesting. Just thought I'd share.


I'm guessing a RA2 Hybrid Keypad could also be wired this way, but I don't know.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad* /forum/post/20665197
> 
> 
> Thought this would be a good place to add this bit of info I just came across.
> 
> 
> Apparently, there is a 'workaround' for the 110V requirement for a dimmer, using an auxiliar power supply. Effectively, you could install a dimmer anywhere, using LV cables and a power supply in the wiring closet.
> 
> http://resi.lutron.com/Portals/4/doc...%20Keypads.pdf
> 
> 
> Haven't done it, looks interesting. Just thought I'd share.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing a RA2 Hybrid Keypad could also be wired this way, but I don't know.



You absolutely can not power a hybrid that way. A standard keypad pulls very little current, a hybrid switches a load.


I see very limited application for this. Might be useful if you are replacing some other device like a volume control with a ra keypad and you want to provide power from the head end. 9 times out of 10 I see existing non CL2 zipwire used for distributed audio in retrofits.


----------



## spiwrx

In a preliminary release meeting they told us this would work on 24vdc as well. I had an opportunity to use it retro fitting an older grafik eye w/ remote keypad to a QS grafik eye with RA2 system keypad(vs. Just supplying another GE keypad) This gave us flexibility to control the entire RA2 system vs. Just the QS.


Used the keypad power output just off 2 of 4 existing LV wires. I called lutron and they gave me the same document you linked above, but remembered the seminar speaker saying 24v, I tried it and is still working for my customer for the last 8 months.


So there's one application. I think the intent was for retrofitting/upgrading from a different control systems keypads which are more commonly LV wired.


----------



## spiwrx

In a preliminary release meeting they told us this would work on 24vdc as well. I had an opportunity to use it retro fitting an older grafik eye w/ remote keypad to a QS grafik eye with RA2 system keypad(vs. Just supplying another GE keypad) This gave us flexibility to control the entire RA2 system vs. Just the QS.


Used the keypad power output just off 2 of 4 existing LV wires. I called lutron and they gave me the same document you linked above, but remembered the seminar speaker saying 24v, I tried it and is still working for my customer for the last 8 months.


So there's one application. I think the intent was for retrofitting/upgrading from a different control systems keypads which are more commonly LV wired.


----------



## BradKas

I do believe that is the main application this is designed for.


Upgrading older GrafikEye's with wired aux keypads to QS.


----------



## Neurorad

I'm almost certain the answer is no, but does the Car Visor Receiver act as an Auxiliary Repeater? Seems such a shame to install them side by side, in the garage.


----------



## BradKas

Nope.


----------



## Neurorad

Thank you, sir.


----------



## spiwrx

We are hosting another 'BLAST' training at the Lutron Experience Center in Irvine (CA). Sept. 27th. If you are interested please EMAIL me or Tom. Seats are limited to those that sign up early. We typically have 1 or 2 different packages on special for the event. This is a half-day training which will entitle you to the L1 certification and software.


If you are interested please forward your contact info to:
[email protected] 
[email protected]


----------



## Fiasco

Alot of great new stuff in the RadioRa2 and HWQS software updates. RF diagnostics (for devices that shipped after january of this year), cellular shades, new honeywell touchscreen thermostat, shared scenes ect ect ect


----------



## Neurorad

Elk Products announced RA2 control, for the M1, in the form of a 'hardware add-on'.

http://www.cocoontech.com/portal/art...ra-2-interface


----------



## MConsulting

Hi Paul! Possibly you or others can answer this HVAC question about RadioRa2. Do you know if you can integrate Lennox's variable speed furnance 9SLP98V Variable-Capacity Gas Furnace) with the RadioRa2?


Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

Sorry I am not familiar with actual HVAC equipment, however if it is controlled by a normal/typical thermostat than it should be controllable to some degree.


You are probably more familiar than I with the Lennox equipment, perhaps a look at the Lutron RR2 controllers wire diagram may help:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...ry/041-299.pdf


----------



## MConsulting




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/20934401
> 
> 
> Sorry I am not familiar with actual HVAC equipment, however if it is controlled by a normal/typical thermostat than it should be controllable to some degree.
> 
> 
> You are probably more familiar than I with the Lennox equipment, perhaps a look at the Lutron RR2 controllers wire diagram may help:




I tried to look up the model numbers but it wasn't listed in the resources provided by Lutron. The main difference here is that its a 'variable' speed furnace and not a 1 or 2 stage furnace. If anyone has info on its compatibility or use with their new seeTemp let me know...Thanks!


----------



## kevin gilmore

sure wish lutron would release the ra2 ceiling fan controls.

Seems to be the only major missing piece.


----------



## ksalno

I have a connected a couple of the HVAC controllers and the wiring is standard thermostat wiring with a single connection for the fan (off/on/auto) and 2-stage heating and cooling wires (Y1/Y2 and W1/W2). I don't know anything about the Lennox unit but unless the variable fan is controlled by onboard CPU, I don't think it will be compatible with the RA2.


----------



## spiwrx

@Kevin, I saw the Ceiling Fan Control in their Demo mobile showroom, hopefully it will be released soon.....


----------



## MConsulting




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/20943916
> 
> 
> @Kevin, I saw the Ceiling Fan Control in their Demo mobile showroom, hopefully it will be released soon.....



Thanks Paul: Did it fit in a single decora box/plate. This would be huge in the RadioRa2 world finally!


----------



## kevin gilmore

took them a year to release the adaptive dimmer.


as far as i know, the ceiling fan is going to be a two piece.

standard looking dimmer in the wall, and a power module that

goes inside the ceiling fan.


should be roughly the same as the maestro IR wireless version.


----------



## timmjl

Hey all,


I'm new here and came across this thread during a google search. I've been tasked with getting an Crestron and RadioRa2 system to talk to each other, and I'm running into some growing pains as I'm a bit new to this programming aspect.


I've connected the RS-232 cable, imported the Lutron RadioRa2 modules for crestron found on your website, added the core module and a dimmer to one of the rooms which has a maestro dimmer.


I've set the integration ID of the dimmer to the correct ID as per the Lutron Integration spreadsheet.

I've set the Core module to use RS-232.

I've added the dimmer to control the chandelier that it is powering.

I've altered a button on the touchpanel in system builder.

I've used a straight-through RS-232 cable

I've set the button model as Tap and Hold, hold time 1s.


But when I press the button on the touchpanel to raise or lower the dimmer nothing happens. I'm unsure if it is how I'm interacting with the modules, if I'm missing a required step or forgetting to address something.


Has anybody tackled a similar install that might have some pointers?


Thanks all....glad I found this place.

Tim

516-849-3029


----------



## richardorser

So, Paul,

If I wanted to connect my hot water circulation pump to my Radio RA2 system, what module should I buy?

And, can you tell me if there is no way to get Lutron's Radio RA2 to time my lights without the hugely expensive bridge? I would like some of my system's lights to come on at sunset (automatically adjusted for my location & season) and go off at 11 p.m. This is so basic; I should not have to pay $1,000 to accomplish that.

Thanks,

Richard


----------



## BradKas

To control the pump, assuming it's 110V (most recirc. pumps are), you would use the plug in switch module.


For timed events, there is no 'bridge', like you may have been familiar with in RadioRa Classic systems. Instead timed events are stored and triggered from RadioRa 2 main repeaters, but they do require the PC programming application to setup.


----------



## spiwrx

Yes the plug in appliance module would be the best/easiest. You could also use a basic RR2 switch [RRD-8ANS ~ _requires neutral connection_] if the pump is within the ratings (1/4hp ~ 5.8a). List price is the same so the only matter is mounting & what you want to look at if it's visible.


The plug-in gets you up to 1/2 hp...


For larger pumps/motors/fans you would normally use RR2 switch & appropriately sized relay....


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/21027701
> 
> 
> To control the pump, assuming it's 110V (most recirc. pumps are), you would use the plug in switch module.
> 
> 
> For timed events, there is no 'bridge', like you may have been familiar with in RadioRa Classic systems. Instead timed events are stored and triggered from RadioRa 2 main repeaters, but they do require the PC programming application to setup.



So Brad, you mean that just having a repeater will allow me to have any of the Radio RA2 controlled devices come on at a preset time and off at another?

Will it also adjust for the seasons and day light savings time so that something could come on at dusk(winter or summer) and off at midnight?

I don't have to have a Chronos System Bridge?

Thanks a bunch .


----------



## richardorser

Paul,

What is the least expensive switch I can use to add a light to a Radio RA2 system? I have a bunch of outdoor flood lights around the periphery of the house with switches all on the second floor, and it would be nice to be able to control them from multiple locations, e.g., from the 1st floor. I don't need to dim them or have scenes, just be able to turn them on from from afar. If I have 6 of these, and the cheapest switches are $100 each, that's a lot to pay for the convenience.

Are there compatible, and less expensive, switches from other manufacturers that work with Radio RA2?


----------



## BradKas

Correct, timed events are programmed and then stored on the main repeater. Dusk/dawn turn on/off times are determined by the longitude and latitude of your city, which you input into the software.


There is no Chronos bridge for RadioRa 2.


Having the main repeater wired to your WiFi network will allow the use of the Lutron home idevice, or andriod app which can serve as a keypad, or means of control.


The cheapest wallbox control would be either the 600W Dimmer, or 8 Amp Switch - I believe both have the same MSRP.


I would tend to agree that a RadioRa 2 lighting control system may be overkill if being used to control a few zones of exterior lights, but when you start thinking of the full scope of what you can accomplish it starts to make more sense.


You will be able to set automatic on, and off times with the astronomical time clock, as well as control the lights manually or check their status from the app. You will also have created a foundation that can be built upon with the installation of the main repeater. And if you're like most people who install lighting control in their homes, you will want more.


Good luck.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/21045807
> 
> 
> Correct, timed events are programmed and then stored on the main repeater. Dusk/dawn turn on/off times are determined by the longitude and latitude of your city, which you input into the software.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> You will be able to set automatic on, and off times with the astronomical time clock, as well as control the lights manually or check their status from the app. You will also have created a foundation that can be built upon with the installation of the main repeater. And if you're like most people who install lighting control in their homes, you will want more.



I'd second this. I put a dimmer on our front lights. I now have it programmed to do things like come on at 100% 30 min. before sundown, then drop to 75% 30 min. after sundown. At 11:30 I drop the lights to 50% until 2:00 in the morning when they drop to 25%. An hour before sunrise they go to 100% then they shut off 30 min after sunrise. Sundown and sunrise are set by your location and automatically adjust throughout the year, with good accuracy from what I've seen.


It all might sound like overkill but the light levels match our needs and we save a lot of power over the course of a year (our front fixtures have six 40 watt bulbs total). I don't have a switch on the back lights but since having set this all up I now want to get one if we stay in this house...


----------



## spiwrx

@richardorser: The switch for your exterior is the way to go[RRD-8ANS-WH] see PM for pricing, as explained by 'Scientist', you can program to fade to on or off, which indeed will extend normal lamp life. It may seem expensive as compared to regular Dimmer or Switch, but it is actually fairly priced in the automation market, even more so among those that work well like the RR2. There are no 3rd party devices that will directly work with RR2 in terms of Switches & Dimmers, the only other way to interface with 3rd party equipment is through Contact closure via their Car Visor Control, but that is more expensive than the basic switch and more complicated to integrate.


----------



## richardorser

That sounds pretty cool. I do intend to control much more than my outdoor lights, but wanted to know just how far to go. These outdoor lights don't "need" to be controlled, but you have given me new reasons to Radio RA2 them. Thanks, Richard


----------



## finger123

I am buying a house with a Lutron RadioRA 2 system installed. Unlike the previous owner I am interested in having control of things like my light switches. I have looked all over the web for the essentials application so that I can have access to my system with no luck. Does anyone know of a place where I can find a copy of the essentials application. I find this fairly frustrating that the the previous owner has installed a system that seems to require that you have someone else come in to program the system. I equate it to having to call the thermador rep in because I might want to use my oven to roast a ham this holiday season rather than a turkey.


----------



## BradKas

Well, the reason the software is only available to qualified dealers & installers is because these systems can be quite frustrating to the end user when programmed poorly, or incorrectly. This, in turn, can create a stigma about the system as a whole when actually bad programming is at fault.


Of course this doesn't apply to all potential end users, some could competently program their own systems without a hitch.


The oven manufacturer doesn't get a bad reputation when you burn your ham or turkey.


----------



## richardorser

Wow, you mean I won't be able to program my own system? I am pretty computer savvy, having used computers for the last 40 years, would I, as an end user, not be able to control my home Radio RA2 system from my home computer?


----------



## DVDCI

Nope you have to be a Level 1 minimum or a Level 2 Preferred System Provider like myself to get access to the programming software.


Like BradKas said they want their systems to be programmed by a trained professional.


----------



## finger123

BradKas,


I disagree with your premise that there is something about home automation that makes it different from any other home appliance which could potentially get a bad reputation from user error.


That aside, I think there is something much more sinister at play here. What Lutron has done is taken an "open source" device in the home and insidiously replaced it with a proprietary technology which guarantees the corporation and its representative a future revenue stream. Sounds a lot like inviting the mafia into your home. I know that this was a trend ten years ago with Digital Rights Management but most have abandoned this approach given that end-users want control of the things that they own. If this scheme was not at the heart of Lutron's business plan and they were truly concerned about getting a bad reputation from user error they could have an online course with proficiency test to gain access to the software. The professional help of their representatives for a charge is always an option.


I believe that Lutron has a great deal to lose by alienating end users such as me who had no choice in the system that was installed by the previous owner. I really do see this as a racket. If I had access to the software there is a very high likelyhood that I would not only be a happy home owner but would probably want to add onto the system. If I were Lutron I would not want posts like this out on the web. If I were considering adding an automation system to my house I would not choose Lutron unless they reconsider the way they treat their customers.


----------



## ksalno

When I had my system installed, the dealer left me a copy of the software so that I could make small tweaks to the settings. Once I demonstrated to him that I wouldn't screw things up, he let me keep the software and as I've added new devices like seeTemp, he has provided me updates. I've kept my end of the bargain by going back to the local dealer for all of the hardware and electrical work, even though I could buy the devices off the web and install them myself.


My suggestion for those who have pre-installed RA2 homes is to build a relationship with a local dealer and you can probably work out a way to get a copy of the software. Once you understand the basic principles of Essentials, it is actually pretty straightforward to configure (there is no real coding involved). Much easier than a Crestron or something that takes real programming skills.


----------



## scientest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/21057715
> 
> 
> My suggestion for those who have pre-installed RA2 homes is to build a relationship with a local dealer and you can probably work out a way to get a copy of the software.



What he said...


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21056519
> 
> 
> not be able to control my home Radio RA2 system from my home computer?



Just to clarify, without 3rd party application you wouldn't be able to "*control*" the RR2 system directly from your computer anyway, only program. Unless you are using their free app. on an iThingy or android...


IMHO, & as expressed by Lutron and the fact that they do not sell the software, is that that ultimately want a great 'user' experience for the majority. Many that find their way onto AVS are beyond the majority and want to get their hands dirty. And are not trying to get rich off software, in fact it's free if you find a training to attend.


2nd the opinion get a good relationship with your dealer/installer/integrator, and you all will be that much happier & have a better 'user' experience.


----------



## BradKas

finger123, I started out as an electrician who DIY'ed lighting control and custom electronic installations so I totally get when you're coming from. As soon as you start to try and sell these services to others you quickly realize why some of this policy is in place. Sure some of it is archaic, but it protects both the dealers and manufacturers.


Of course many tech savvy DIY'ers out there can figure this stuff out, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere, and like anything some people get left out.


Like mentioned, I'm sure your local Ra 2 installer can help you further with your issues. There are home owner edit options as part of the iPad app, and if installer is anything like the business I work for, once a work relationship is developed we bend over backwards to exceed expectations when changing programming, adding devices, etc.


If this doesn't work for you there are a few good over the counter lighting control solutions out there for you.


----------



## Neurorad

finger, try getting the service manuals for your Thermador oven, new car, refrigerator, HVAC, TV, or anything else that's too complicated for the average home owner. The manufacturer is just trying to cover their asses, protect their dealers/installers/service techs, and not spend a fortune on tech support.


Play the game, it's very easy. Lutron really wants you to buy their equipment.


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/21063377
> 
> 
> Just to clarify, without 3rd party application you wouldn't be able to "*control*" the RR2 system directly from your computer anyway, only program. Unless you are using their free app. on an iThingy or android... .



I have no need to control the lighting from the computer, only to do the programming using my computer.

So, I need to develop the relationships discussed above.


Oh, question, must each circuit have its own RA2 switch, or is it possible to have one of the control units double as one circuit's switch? By control unit, I mean the multi-button unit I would use for selecting scenes. IOW, say I have a control unit controlling 3 circuits for different scenes, can I use the control unit itself as a termination for one of the circuits and avoid having to put a RA2 switch into the circuit. Or, must I have one RA2 switch/dimmer for each and every circuit even if I do not intend to use the switch/dimmer itself for controlling the circuit, but, rather, only the control unit. BTW, what do you call those control units?


Thanks, R


----------



## BradKas

The device you'll want to look into is the Hybrid Keypad. It is a keypad that has a 450W (i think), neutral optional dimmer built in. The lighting load can be controlled like any other, but defaults to the top button as a toggle upon installation.


The only drawback is you cannot change the button kit on the device when engraving. It is now available in a few configurations. I wouldn't recommend designing a new system to include these devices, but they are useful for retrofits.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the least expensive switch I can use to add a light to a Radio RA2 system? I have a bunch of outdoor flood lights around the periphery of the house with switches all on the second floor, and it would be nice to be able to control them from multiple locations, e.g., from the 1st floor. I don't need to dim them or have scenes, just be able to turn them on from from afar. If I have 6 of these, and the cheapest switches are $100 each, that's a lot to pay for the convenience.
> 
> Are there compatible, and less expensive, switches from other manufacturers that work with Radio RA2?



The first question would be are all of your exterior flood lights on the same switch circuit (3-way or 4-way) where you can turn off those exterior floods together from multiple locations? Or, are the flood lights segregated into groups switched at different locations.


If they are all on a 3 or 4-way, you only need 1 8ANS and you can replace the rest of the switches with the much much less expensive remote switch. You said you have 6 flood lights. Are these single or dual flood lights and what is their wattage?


If the floods are all switched seperately my next question would be are they on their own circuit at the panel. If they are on their own circuit at the panel and you don't mind switching them all together you can put your 8ANS switch at the panel and toggle the entire circuit and use RA keypads to controll the exterior floods.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/21046300
> 
> 
> @richardorser: The switch for your exterior is the way to go[RRD-8ANS-WH] see PM for pricing, as explained by 'Scientist', you can program to fade to on or off, which indeed will extend normal lamp life.



You cant dim or set fade time on a 8ans switch. Further, anyone considering a neutral switch or dimmer should first open their switch box and check that they have a neutral in the box. It isn't uncommon to only have a switch leg if the electrician pulled power through the fixture.




> Quote:
> It may seem expensive as compared to regular Dimmer or Switch, but it is actually fairly priced in the automation market, even more so among those that work well like the RR2. There are no 3rd party devices that will directly work with RR2 in terms of Switches & Dimmers, the only other way to interface with 3rd party equipment is through Contact closure via their Car Visor Control, but that is more expensive than the basic switch and more complicated to integrate.



You can interface 3rd party systems via TCP, RS232 or Contact Closure.


For example, I have a button on my bedroom RA keypad "sleep" that shuts down all the house AV equipment and bumps my HAI omnistat back to 72 deg done by catching the keypad button press via RS232.


A VCRX most certainly can be less expensive to use to toggle 3-4 circuits instead of using 4 8ANS switches.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *timmjl* /forum/post/21012451
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> 
> I'm new here and came across this thread during a google search. I've been tasked with getting an Crestron and RadioRa2 system to talk to each other, and I'm running into some growing pains as I'm a bit new to this programming aspect.
> 
> 
> I've connected the RS-232 cable, imported the Lutron RadioRa2 modules for crestron found on your website, added the core module and a dimmer to one of the rooms which has a maestro dimmer.
> 
> 
> I've set the integration ID of the dimmer to the correct ID as per the Lutron Integration spreadsheet.
> 
> I've set the Core module to use RS-232.
> 
> I've added the dimmer to control the chandelier that it is powering.
> 
> I've altered a button on the touchpanel in system builder.
> 
> I've used a straight-through RS-232 cable
> 
> I've set the button model as Tap and Hold, hold time 1s.
> 
> 
> But when I press the button on the touchpanel to raise or lower the dimmer nothing happens. I'm unsure if it is how I'm interacting with the modules, if I'm missing a required step or forgetting to address something.
> 
> 
> Has anybody tackled a similar install that might have some pointers?
> 
> 
> Thanks all....glad I found this place.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 516-849-3029



Tim,


Hook a PC up to the serial port on your RA repeater and use software like Eltima's RS232 monitor (free) or Eltima's Serial Port monitor (shareware). You will be able to see whats coming in and out to make sure that you serial port connection is correct and that you can communicate with the RA processor.


The first command to send would be #MONITORING,255,1


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BradKas* /forum/post/21068759
> 
> 
> The device you'll want to look into is the Hybrid Keypad. It is a keypad that has a 450W (i think), neutral optional dimmer built in. The lighting load can be controlled like any other, but defaults to the top button as a toggle upon installation.
> 
> 
> The only drawback is you cannot change the button kit on the device when engraving. It is now available in a few configurations. I wouldn't recommend designing a new system to include these devices, but they are useful for retrofits.



You have to derate it if it's multiganged.


If your going to stick a hybrid keypad in a multigang box, be sure to put it on the switch leg with the lightest load.


I do believe that they unveiled a whole slew of hybrid keypad configurations so I believe you can change the button kit now.


----------



## richardorser

Thanks for the informative reply. Actually, the outdoor spot lights have not yet been installed. This is new construction, and I am just looking at the architect's elec. plan. I could have them all wired on one or two circuits, but it would be nice to be able to turn on the north side of the house for example without turning on the south side.

But, my point is that I am not yet committed to anything at this point. So, any advice from you folks can be yet incorporated into the house design.

Thanks, Richard


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21069246
> 
> 
> Thanks for the informative reply. Actually, the outdoor spot lights have not yet been installed. This is new construction, and I am just looking at the architect's elec. plan. I could have them all wired on one or two circuits, but it would be nice to be able to turn on the north side of the house for example without turning on the south side.
> 
> But, my point is that I am not yet committed to anything at this point. So, any advice from you folks can be yet incorporated into the house design.
> 
> Thanks, Richard



How far along is the house? Is electric roughed in? Are the walls covered?


If the electric isn't roughed and your putting in a lighting system your going to want to rethink how the switch legs are run to maximize the system and minimize wall blight!


----------



## richardorser

I am just looking at the architect's plans.

So, I am free to do it right--with the help of you guys.


----------



## Fiasco

Do you have them in PDF or auto cad format? If so PM me for my email addy and I'll lay out the house in RA and HWQS


----------



## Neurorad

Fiasco, you are the man.


----------



## ksalno

I have an old LiteTouch system for controlling my outdoor landscape lighting, almost all of which is low-voltage 12v stuff. I have a couple LT 9 button keypads in the house to control the outdoor lighting scenes. Is there any way to integrate or replace these with RA 2 keypads and controls. I'd love to integrate outdoor lighting into some of my Scenes and to be able to control the timing cycles of the outside lights with Essentials and my iPads.


----------



## spiwrx

The regular Keypads can be run/powered by low voltage (_Lutron suggests 48v, but I've run it on 24v with no problems. So you may need a small control transformer as well._ ), however somewhere you will have to replace/introduce a switch, dimmer or plug in module that controls the transformers for those landscape lights.


I'm not all that familiar with light touch though, There may be other ways to integrate via contact closure or RS-232.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/21078257
> 
> 
> I have an old LiteTouch system for controlling my outdoor landscape lighting, almost all of which is low-voltage 12v stuff. I have a couple LT 9 button keypads in the house to control the outdoor lighting scenes. Is there any way to integrate or replace these with RA 2 keypads and controls. I'd love to integrate outdoor lighting into some of my Scenes and to be able to control the timing cycles of the outside lights with Essentials and my iPads.



How many watts is the landscape load?


You can back feed new Lutron keypads with a transformer on the LT low voltage wiring.


You can use an 8ans switch to control the landscape transformer if it is under 960 watts. If it's over that you can use an 8ans switch feeding the coil of a 120v contactor


----------



## richardorser

Well I don't rightly know. If there are new LED exterior spot lights that could be used, that would be an option.

Let me say that the total number of spotlights would be about 8--12, but they would not need to be on all at the same time.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21080634
> 
> 
> Well I don't rightly know. If there are new LED exterior spot lights that could be used, that would be an option.
> 
> Let me say that the total number of spotlights would be about 8--12, but they would not need to be on all at the same time.



You could use landscape led bullets (check hadco's led bullets) They are pricey but a heck of alot more attractive then traditional flood lights. The last time I spoke to our lighting rep he said that there wasn't a outdoor led flood lamp that he would recommend.


You would get 14-20 years out of a hadco led landscape bullet


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21080328
> 
> 
> How many watts is the landscape load?
> 
> 
> You can back feed new Lutron keypads with a transformer on the LT low voltage wiring.
> 
> 
> You can use an 8ans switch to control the landscape transformer if it is under 960 watts. If it's over that you can use an 8ans switch feeding the coil of a 120v contactor



So, how would that affect how I wire the home? If I don't want to have to turn all the spot lights on at the same time, but just groups of them, how do I instruct the electrician to wire them? And, where do I run low voltage wiring?

Thanks guys,

Richard


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21080785
> 
> 
> You could use landscape led bullets (check hadco's led bullets) They are pricey but a heck of alot more attractive then traditional flood lights. The last time I spoke to our lighting rep he said that there wasn't a outdoor led flood lamp that he would recommend.
> 
> 
> You would get 14-20 years out of a hadco led landscape bullet



The Hadco's look like they are more appropriate for on the ground uplighting.

I am looking for something that is mounted to the 2nd story, under the roof overhang to shine down onto the grounds below.

Do you know how the Hadco's compare with a normal incandescent. 100 Watt bulbs? I'm looking for something pretty bright.


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21081326
> 
> 
> The Hadco's look like they are more appropriate for on the ground uplighting.
> 
> I am looking for something that is mounted to the 2nd story, under the roof overhang to shine down onto the grounds below.
> 
> Do you know how the Hadco's compare with a normal incandescent. 100 Watt bulbs? I'm looking for something pretty bright.



The hadco wide angle larger bullets are pretty bright. I've seen them eave mounted as flood lights and they look good (IMHO better then floods).


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21081252
> 
> 
> So, how would that affect how I wire the home? If I don't want to have to turn all the spot lights on at the same time, but just groups of them, how do I instruct the electrician to wire them? And, where do I run low voltage wiring?
> 
> Thanks guys,
> 
> Richard



That reply was for a retrofit.


For new construction I would have the electrician put a receptacle and 8ans switch in a 2 gang box at the landscape transformer location. You should save on labor and wire since the electrician won't need to pull 3 way switch legs through the house. Same thing for your exterior floods. Normally you would have multiple locations in the house to control exterior lights. With keypads you don't need to that labor or wire.


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21081497
> 
> 
> That reply was for a retrofit.
> 
> 
> For new construction I would have the electrician put a receptacle and 8ans switch in a 2 gang box at the landscape transformer location. You should save on labor and wire since the electrician won't need to pull 3 way switch legs through the house. Same thing for your exterior floods. Normally you would have multiple locations in the house to control exterior lights. With keypads you don't need to that labor or wire.



Of course, having each pair of flood lights at each location have their own 8ans switch solves the problem but is pretty pricey. I think perhaps if I connect a few of the pairs, I can reduce the number of 8ans switches and make the cost reasonable. There is no reason I can't have, say, 3 pairs of lights come on together--one end of the house for example. And, gang the other end of the house together--maybe do the whole thing with 3 8ans switches.

I think we have solved this one. THanks. R


----------



## jdahlke

I have a split level entry with a 3 way switch at the entry way and at the top of the stairs controlling two lights. I replaced one of the lights with a ceiling fan/light combo but now I cannot leave the fan running without having the other light on. I really like the Lutron switches and have been considering starting an RA2 system but I do not understand why with an RF system the remote switch still requires one of the traveller wires to be used for communications. Since I want to convert one of the traveller wires to be an always hot wire for the fan this wouldn't work with my existing wiring. And it's a vaulted ceiling so there is no attic access to change the wiring. Does RA2 have a solution for this? Would using a keypad instead of a remote switch be the answer?


Thanks


----------



## Fiasco

Break the 3-way. Non hybrid keypad at stair base. 1 dimmer (lights) at top of stairs 1 8ans switch (or wait for fan controller) at top or bottom of stairs. Use your two travelers for switch legs. No need for a remote dimmer or switch.


The remote dimmer is essentially a "dumb" dimmer. It does not actually control the lighting load, it only tells the real dimmer it is 3-way'd with what to do.


----------



## the-pred

So just started to look into home automation. I would like to start with my home theater. what i want is to control my pot lights with my ipad. I understand Radiora is capable of this. What I don't understand is what equipment I need. Right now I have three zones, each with 6 pot lights. Can I just replace present manual dimmers with Lutron radiora dimmers, if so what model. Or do I need repeaters as well. Please give me a hand in this basic setup.


----------



## Fiasco

Probably 3 rrd-rd dimmers and a rr-main-rep repeater.


You won't be able to do anything but shoe leather programming without the software and it is not available to end users.


----------



## BradKas

Well, the system begins by installing a Main Repeater, and at least one device, so yes, you will need one.


The type of dimmers required to replace the switches controlling those pot lights depend on the type of load, and the wattage, but most likely the standard RRD-6D (standard 600W dimmer) will work.


In order to control the lights from your idevice, the system will need to be programmed using the Lutron software, and wired into your home network.


----------



## the-pred

Ok so what kind of price am I looking at for 3 dimmers and a main repeater? Is there a good online store to get cheap? How many dimmers and switches can aone repeater control?


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-pred* /forum/post/21151939
> 
> 
> Ok so what kind of price am I looking at for 3 dimmers and a main repeater? Is there a good online store to get cheap? How many dimmers and switches can aone repeater control?



Even if you buy online you won't have the software to program the system (have to do tap programming)


----------



## the-pred

So only way to get it working with IPAD is have a professional insaller install. Are try the only ones with the software?


----------



## spiwrx

Just to clarify on this:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21151857
> 
> 
> Probably 3 rrd-rd dimmers and a rr-main-rep repeater



I believe he intended to say 3x RRD-6D & RR-MAIN-REP.


The RRD-RD is for wired (traditional) 3 & 4 way circuits when wired to/used with an RRD-6D as the main dimmer [Or any other RR2 Dimmer, 10D, 6NA, 6ND, etc..] The RRD-RD by itself does nothing...


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *the-pred* /forum/post/21152611
> 
> 
> So only way to get it working with IPAD is have a professional insaller install. Are try the only ones with the software?



Yes. The labor cost to intall and program the system would amount to two hours labor.


----------



## kevin gilmore

new lutron software allows the firmware upgrade of mlv/elv dimmers

to adaptive dimmers. Makes a big difference for difficult LED loads.


----------



## richardorser




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx* /forum/post/21152972
> 
> 
> 
> The RRD-RD is for wired (traditional) 3 & 4 way circuits when wired to/used with an RRD-6D as the main dimmer [Or any other RR2 Dimmer, 10D, 6NA, 6ND, etc..] The RRD-RD by itself does nothing...



I do not see a 6ND or a 6 NA dimmer on the Lutron web site, only the following:

Model Numbers

Dimmer

Incandescent /Magnetic Low-voltage

RRD-6D-XX* 600 W/ 600 VA Dimmer

RRD-10D-XX* 1000 W/ 1000 VA Dimmer

RRD-10ND-XX* 1000 W/ 1000 VA Neutral

Dimmer

Switch

Lighting and motor loads

RRD-8ANS-XX* 8 A Lighting, 5.8 A Motor

Neutral Electronic Switch

Accessory Controls

RD-RD-XX* Remote Dimmer

RD-RS-XX* Remote Switch

(From: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...s_369-225a.pdf )


Are you saying that they have a 600 Watt dimmer with a neutral? Where can I find a complete and up-to-date list of RA2 components?

Thanks,


----------



## richardorser

I have been told that I cannot accomplish the following:

Use a RA2 Occupancy Sensor to turn on my hall lights when a person passes, but only between certain hours (I don't want the lights to come on and wake my wife every time I go to the bathroom during the night). What about I put the *Occupancy Sensor* on a RA2 switch (RRD-8ANS) that was timed from the Main Repeater so that the Sensor itself received power only during the hours I wanted it to function (turn the lights on); would that not work to give me the conditional programming I'm looking for?


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21177994
> 
> 
> I do not see a 6ND or a 6 NA dimmer on the Lutron web site, only the following:
> 
> Model Numbers
> 
> Dimmer
> 
> Incandescent /Magnetic Low-voltage
> 
> RRD-6D-XX* 600 W/ 600 VA Dimmer
> 
> RRD-10D-XX* 1000 W/ 1000 VA Dimmer
> 
> RRD-10ND-XX* 1000 W/ 1000 VA Neutral
> 
> Dimmer
> 
> Switch
> 
> Lighting and motor loads
> 
> RRD-8ANS-XX* 8 A Lighting, 5.8 A Motor
> 
> Neutral Electronic Switch
> 
> Accessory Controls
> 
> RD-RD-XX* Remote Dimmer
> 
> RD-RS-XX* Remote Switch
> 
> (From: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...s_369-225a.pdf )
> 
> 
> Are you saying that they have a 600 Watt dimmer with a neutral? Where can I find a complete and up-to-date list of RA2 components?
> 
> Thanks,



Richard,


Just got back in country today. Please see this page for complete Ra2 product lineup

http://www.lutron.com/Products/Whole...elNumbers.aspx


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richardorser* /forum/post/21178028
> 
> 
> I have been told that I cannot accomplish the following:
> 
> Use a RA2 Occupancy Sensor to turn on my hall lights when a person passes, but only between certain hours (I don't want the lights to come on and wake my wife every time I go to the bathroom during the night). What about I put the *Occupancy Sensor* on a RA2 switch (RRD-8ANS) that was timed from the Main Repeater so that the Sensor itself received power only during the hours I wanted it to function (turn the lights on); would that not work to give me the conditional programming I'm looking for?



Richard,


RadioRa can not do conditional logic programatically. You could only do this by using a 3rd party controller or some type of cobbled control as you suggest above (or by using Lutron Homeworks QS instead)


The Ra LRF-OCRB2 ox sensor, for example, is not a line voltage device. It is battery powered. You would not be able to control power to it via an 8ans switch.


Further, specialized unorthodox wiring might solve a conditional logic goal you have now (say, use the contact closure output on a Ra VCRX to feed low voltage to the battery leads on your Ra ox sensor based on a timeclock) but may very well limit your flexibility if the solution doesn't work exactly as you would like.


I'll give you a HWQS conditional logic sequence on Ox sensors for a home I'm doing now. The client wanted "pathway" buttons at entry points that illuminated a path to different points in the house based on the time of day. After sunset he wanted the path to illuminate alll the way through to his master bathroom. I suggested that this would be a bad idea in practice as it is always a bad idea to turn on bedroom lights from a keypad outside of the bedroom. The client soon agreed when his teenage son came home late and hit the pathway button. However, the client still wanted this.... Fix it!


The solution was to set a pathway variable to "true" and initiate a sequence that would set the pathway variable to false in three minutes. We then placed an Ox sensor at the master suite entrance that would only turn on the master suite lights if the pathway variable is true. So, the master suite lights will only come on from the motion sensor within three minutes of a pathway button being pressed.


The Ox sensor was originally installed in another part of the house. Had we done some type of unorthodox wiring to achieve the same effect we wouldn't have had the flexibility to do so post build.


----------



## ELECTRICDON




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> new lutron software allows the firmware upgrade of mlv/elv dimmers
> 
> to adaptive dimmers. Makes a big difference for difficult LED loads.



Was that in the release notes for 5.0.8?


----------



## kevin gilmore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ELECTRICDON* /forum/post/21182499
> 
> 
> Was that in the release notes for 5.0.8?



Its the first thing in the release notes. It does not say why you

would want to do this, but that should be obvious.


In the future i would expect that the mlv and elv would be discontinued,

which makes sense as they are all obviously the same thing with

different firmware.


----------



## ELECTRICDON




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Its the first thing in the release notes. It does not say why you
> 
> would want to do this, but that should be obvious.
> 
> 
> In the future i would expect that the mlv and elv would be discontinued,
> 
> which makes sense as they are all obviously the same thing with
> 
> different firmware.



I had to laugh when I opened up the release notes after posting.

I just wish the NA dimmers were priced a little closer to standard 6D.

We just sold a job with standard dimmers and cans then upgraded to led cans and NA dimmers which pushed us far over budget and almost lost the whole job.


----------



## yoshiguy

Hi Everyone,


I'm about to start Radio RA2 in my home. I have question if the main repeater can talk to temperature sensor without the HAVC controller?


What I want is to send command to the temperature sensor from the main repeater to get the temperature of the room.



Does anyone have temperature sensor that can try ?


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yoshiguy* /forum/post/21221884
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> I'm about to start Radio RA2 in my home. I have question if the main repeater can talk to temperature sensor without the HAVC controller?
> 
> 
> What I want is to send command to the temperature sensor from the main repeater to get the temperature of the room.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have temperature sensor that can try ?



Not a bad idea but my guess would be that the temperature sensor only communicates 1-way with the main repeater to save battery life.


----------



## user12345678

The temperature sensor communicates with the HVAC controller and must be assigned to an HVAC controller to function in the system. Presently, you can't poll individual temperature sensors. Instead the HVAC controller averages the sensors (you can attach more than one to each HVAC controller) and reports only the average to the main repeater...


I have a spare temperature sensor for sale...


----------



## yoshiguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5* /forum/post/21222430
> 
> 
> The temperature sensor communicates with the HVAC controller and must be assigned to an HVAC controller to function in the system. Presently, you can't poll individual temperature sensors. Instead the HVAC controller averages the sensors (you can attach more than one to each HVAC controller) and reports only the average to the main repeater...
> 
> 
> I have a spare temperature sensor for sale...





I looked at the integration protocol and does have a command to get what i want but i don't know if the main repeater can do it. Wondering you can try since you have one. So what is your current setup ? You have the HVAC with the temperature sensor ?


PM about the sensor you have forsale.


Example DEVICE Messages

Operation

Command String

Query: ?DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number

What is the Temp. Sensor's Battery Status?

?DEVICE,1,1,22

Response: ~DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number, Parameters

Temp. Sensor's Battery is Low.

~DEVICE,1,1,22,2


----------



## yoshiguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21222092
> 
> 
> Not a bad idea but my guess would be that the temperature sensor only communicates 1-way with the main repeater to save battery life.



As I stated to Shun, the integration protocol does seem to support it. I just don't know if I'm reading it wrong and what controller is need to do so.


Also I saw your really cool ipad control app for ra2. I'm curious if your app is sending commands straight to the main repeater or to a computer then to the main repeater?




Example DEVICE Messages

Operation

Command String

Query: ?DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number

What is the Temp. Sensor's Battery Status?

?DEVICE,1,1,22

Response: ~DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number, Parameters

Temp. Sensor's Battery is Low.

~DEVICE,1,1,22,2


----------



## Fiasco

I don't know but if I had to guess, you wouldn't be polling the temp sensor, rather the HVAC controller/tstat or main repeater would give the sensors last reading.



My ipad talks directly to my Ra repeater



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yoshiguy* /forum/post/21234857
> 
> 
> As I stated to Shun, the integration protocol does seem to support it. I just don't know if I'm reading it wrong and what controller is need to do so.
> 
> 
> Also I saw your really cool ipad control app for ra2. I'm curious if your app is sending commands straight to the main repeater or to a computer then to the main repeater?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Example DEVICE Messages
> 
> Operation
> 
> Command String
> 
> Query: ?DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number
> 
> What is the Temp. Sensor's Battery Status?
> 
> ?DEVICE,1,1,22
> 
> Response: ~DEVICE, Integration ID, Component Number, Action Number, Parameters
> 
> Temp. Sensor's Battery is Low.
> 
> ~DEVICE,1,1,22,2


----------



## markrubin

quick question about RA2


just upgraded from legacy RadioRA


how many HVAC controllers can be installed?


I read it was two: I need at least 3 zones: planned on using 3 LR-HVAC-1 controllers


----------



## Fiasco




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/21333274
> 
> 
> quick question about RA2
> 
> 
> just upgraded from legacy RadioRA
> 
> 
> how many HVAC controllers can be installed?
> 
> 
> I read it was two: I need at least 3 zones: planned on using 3 LR-HVAC-1 controllers



Did you do the buyback program?


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/21333274
> 
> 
> quick question about RA2
> 
> 
> just upgraded from legacy RadioRA
> 
> 
> how many HVAC controllers can be installed?
> 
> 
> I read it was two: I need at least 3 zones: planned on using 3 LR-HVAC-1 controllers



I have two installed but looked at doing three, so there is no problem with 3. I think the limit is on the temp sensors. I think there is an upper limit of 5 temp sensors across all controllers.


Make sure to get the latest firmware and Essentials code. There were a number of fixes/changes just rolled out for the HVAC units.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/21335209
> 
> 
> I have two installed but looked at doing three, so there is no problem with 3. I think the limit is on the temp sensors. I think there is an upper limit of 5 temp sensors across all controllers.
> 
> 
> Make sure to get the latest firmware and Essentials code. There were a number of fixes/changes just rolled out for the HVAC units.



Thanks for the reply


yes a max of 10 sensors (5 per controller) is what I read and that is fine for my application


Firmware is 5.08


what a pleasure using RR2 over the legacy stuff: really nice new gear


----------



## ksalno

Mark,


I've been a RadioRA customer since 2004, starting with the original RA system and walk around programming. Now run my whole house with it, along with integration to a Savant system. I love the iPad app. Will be replacing an old LightTouch system next week that I use for outdoor lighting which will put me over 90 loads on the system. It works great. Very reliable and easy to use.


Karl


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/21340850
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> 
> I've been a RadioRA customer since 2004, starting with the original RA system and walk around programming. Now run my whole house with it, along with integration to a Savant system. I love the iPad app. Will be replacing an old LightTouch system next week that I use for outdoor lighting which will put me over 90 loads on the system. It works great. Very reliable and easy to use.
> 
> 
> Karl



Thanks Karl: it is good not to have to run around to each control


I was planning on using the RTI 2 way drivers for control but the iPad app is so good I may just use it standalone and not bother with the RTI programming


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/21340913
> 
> 
> I was planning on using the RTI 2 way drivers for control but the iPad app is so good I may just use it standalone and not bother with the RTI programming



Exactly what I ended up doing. I had some Savant interfaces done to control the Grafik Eye in the theater but never did the remaining room lights or HVAC. It's just as easy to use the Lutron app and with the multi-tasking on the iPad 2, it's really no difference in speed or performance either.


----------



## markrubin

thanks for the comments and if you would, one more question:


in replacing the old Grafik Eye with the QS, there was a line voltage connection to a legacy RR switch (a square button) at the entrance to my HT that would toggle the lights on/off: this was connected to the SSC connector on the old Grafik Eye


The new QS does not have a similar terminal so that switch is not functional and there is no AC at the switch now (the wire was capped)


I am thinking of placing a Pico battery powered wireless control over this switch to perform the same function: not clear to me if Pico integrates easily since it is intended for shade control? I have no other shade control devices in my system. This seems like a cheap alternative that does not require calling the electrician back


----------



## jdahlke

I am close to making my purchase decision on the RadioRA2 but am still confused about the support for CFL/LED bulbs. I see that the RRD-F6AN-DV supports a 3-wire system but what about for a typical CFL or LED bulb that just replaces a standard incandescant. Does the RRD-6D work with those? I am confused because the standalone controls Lutron offers a CL Dimmers line now.


And for the lamp modules, if I have a table with two small lamps on it that would really always both be on or off is it common to just use a plug expander with the RR-3PD-1 to connect both lamps?


Thanks


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/21346254
> 
> 
> thanks for the comments and if you would, one more question:
> 
> 
> in replacing the old Grafik Eye with the QS, there was a line voltage connection to a legacy RR switch (a square button) at the entrance to my HT that would toggle the lights on/off: this was connected to the SSC connector on the old Grafik Eye
> 
> 
> The new QS does not have a similar terminal so that switch is not functional and there is no AC at the switch now (the wire was capped)
> 
> 
> I am thinking of placing a Pico battery powered wireless control over this switch to perform the same function: not clear to me if Pico integrates easily since it is intended for shade control? I have no other shade control devices in my system. This seems like a cheap alternative that does not require calling the electrician back



I was able to confirm this solution today: this Pico wireless keypad worked perfectly: it is battery powered and has adhesive mounting strip: mounted over old non functional switch: and it is inexpensive


copy & pasted Grafik Eye QS commands for all on scene and all off : problem solved


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdahlke* /forum/post/21347421
> 
> 
> And for the lamp modules, if I have a table with two small lamps on it that would really always both be on or off is it common to just use a plug expander with the RR-3PD-1 to connect both lamps?
> 
> 
> Thanks



I can't help with the CFL/LED question, as I don't have any of those installed.


For the table lamps, I have two options I use based on the use case. For lamps where I want to have the possibility of manual control, I use a RR-3LD which I place on the table where it is easily accessible. For lamps where I only need control from the program or a wall keypad, then I use the RR-3PD which can be installed under the table or on the floor where it is less conspicuous. They are both dimmers but can obviously be used as an on/off switch if you want. The difference is the 3PD doesn't have a touch pad control for manual dimming adjustment, like the 3LD.


I do use plug extenders to have multiple lamps controlled via on unit.


----------



## spiwrx

The CFL & LED are tricky because there are so many variations in manufacturer, quality dim-ability, etc..


Lutron has put together a pretty good tool to help though. Check out:
http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Design-SelectionTools/Pages/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx 


If you visit that page simply select the Lutron Control type you are planning on using and it will populate a list of tested fixtures and lamps. If you can find the LED product you are trying to use it will have a link to what they call a 'Report Card' of how well it performed, min&max number of fixtures or wattage's, etc..


In most cases though their RRD-6NA ("adaptive") Dimmer is the best solution. There are some counter intuitive points to note though. For example the Cree CR6 using the 1000w Neutral dimmer (RRD-10ND) can only handle 5 CR6 units (only 55watts) however the RRD-6NA (600watt) can handle 6 CR6's with slightly more range also.


Lutron is telling us the high inrush of these LED drivers is the reason you couldn't use more than 5, even on a thousand watt dimmer. (_Use of interfaces will allow more fixtures and may necessitate an Fluorescent Dimmer or QS to control on an R2 system.)_


The "report card" also shows other non-system dimmers such as the Diva, Maestro & Skylark. So it is a useful tool regardless of RR2


For CFL, you should still use an appropriate dimming ballast and corresponding dimmer like the F6AN for best results. Though the adaptive dimmer may work on certain 2-wire dimmable CFL lamps and ballasts. For the price of a well functioning dimmable CFL system, you may as well consider the LED version, as they are coming to near the same price or better.


I blogged about the LED Ad nauseam earlier this year, if you would like to read more...


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/21348225
> 
> 
> I was able to confirm this solution today: this Pico wireless keypad worked perfectly: it is battery powered and has adhesive mounting strip: mounted over old non functional switch: and it is inexpensive
> 
> 
> copy & pasted Grafik Eye QS commands for all on scene and all off : problem solved



Another great use of the PICO, the switch in question was originally intended to control the first scene on the GE over existing 3-way wiring. Without having to change the wire or be otherwise able to get the low voltage cable there for a regular keypad.


Likewise, you could have used a wireless keypad, instead of a wired one. But if only one button is necessary the PICO is the most cost effective.


Point to note, if you have an application like this the PICO-FP-ADAPT (extra mounting plate) is now available as an accessory to make the PICO mountable to an existing gang box or LV ring.


----------



## VJDabs

Hi All,


Since this a Lutron RadioRA 2 dedicated post i thought i'd ask the question here.


I am in the process of renovating my house and would like to implement RadioRA 2 to automate lights/scene's, i would like to do the following:

Lounge 1

1 x Dimmable LED Strip lighting

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Lounge 2

1 x Dimmable LED Strip lighting

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Kitchen

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

1 x LED Strip Cabinet lighting

Downstair Hall

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Upstairs Hall

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Bedroom's

1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting


I would like to have 2/3 scenes for the Loung rooms and Kitchen. To implement this do I need to install Grafik Eye or can I do it another way?


I have tried looking but all the Lutron dimmers are wall mountable and there's none that I can hide in between floor space.


Any better solution? I can't afford to send much but which is a downside but would like to be able to add elements in the future.


Regards


VJ


----------



## Shoop22

I would spec a RRD-6NA-XX in-wall ELV dimmer for each of the lights/LED strips you are talking about, so that would be 9 ELV dimmers. I would do ELV rather than regular incandescent dimmers because you have the option to use LED downlights now or in the future for long term energy savings. If you want to use incandescent bulbs in your downlights then you could do 3 ELV dimmers and 6 RRD-6D-XX dimmers.


For scene control you will need keypads at each location that you want to activate the scene. If you really only have 3 scenes in a room then the RRD-W3BSRL-XX keypad will give you 3 buttons you can use for scenes. I would probably put in RRD-W4S-XX so you can have an extra button for "green mode" or something like that. I personally don't like the look of the Grafik Eye.


----------



## spiwrx

The 6NA dimmer is great for LED cans, but most of the LED strips we sell use dimmable MLV based drivers so a less expensive dimmer (regular 6D) could work there as long as you are well within it's minimum wattage. If you are close to 60watts or under on your strip definitely use the 6NA. And I mean 60 watts of load[LED] not a 60 watt transformer. The 6NA has a much lower min. without looking I think it's 10watt.


With RA classic (1st Gen.) the GE was a more affordable way to add 6 dimmers and it only counted as one device. With RR2 it's cheaper to do individual dimmers, making the Grafik QS more of an aesthetic decision than anything else. You do not need the GE for scene the keypads will take care of that. Also, the GE QS now counts as 6 devices and timing can be setup in the repeater. So the only other advantages to using the GE QS is less wall space, wired IR integration, Wired Occ sensor integration.


They now offer plug-in switching & dimming modules, but either way access is required, for initial setup/activation and NEC compliance. I would hide the dimmers in a gang box in the attic, basement, nearby closet/pantry, etc.. & just use a keypad as mentioned above. Also it may be more economical to just use a pico for a keypad if only 2 or 3 scenes, however a full keypad would be better if you plan on expanding the system later.


----------



## Anthony A.

will RA2 switches work regardless if there is a main repeater/auxilliary unit working? for example, lets say you have a working RA2 home setup and the main repeater dies for some reason along with all of the auxilliary repeaters. will the actual switches (3 and 4 way) still work like a regular switch? i assume the scene keypads and conditional programming logic obviously not as they need the repeater.


im really just looking for a foolproof setup of everything still working like a regular house in the event something gets out of whack.


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Anthony


Local RR switches/ dimmers basic function should still work even if the main/aux repeaters are not working


I still have some original RR dimmers in my house that still work as standalone after I upgraded to RR2


I love RR2: it is great (my opinion only)


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony A.* /forum/post/21505356
> 
> 
> will RA2 switches work regardless if there is a main repeater/auxilliary unit working? for example, lets say you have a working RA2 home setup and the main repeater dies for some reason along with all of the auxilliary repeaters. will the actual switches (3 and 4 way) still work like a regular switch? i assume the scene keypads and conditional programming logic obviously not as they need the repeater.
> 
> 
> im really just looking for a foolproof setup of everything still working like a regular house in the event something gets out of whack.



The switches and dimmers will continue to work as normal without the main repeater. Keypads will also continue to work, as the software is downloaded to them from the main repeater, so they do not need the main repeater to function. One place you may have an issue is if you have a switch or outlet too far away from a keypad. If you are using an aux repeater, this may be the case. Without the aux repeater, the keypad may not be able to reach the most remote switches.


However, the aux repeaters will continue to function as signal relays, even if the main repeater is down, so this case would only occur if both the main and aux were down at the same time. This would probably only happen in the case of a power failure or lightning strike and in either case, you've got bigger problems.


The only thing I'm not sure about is time clock functions. I think these may need the main repeater. Also I believe (but am not positive) that the new HVAC controls need the main repeater to function.


----------



## parish99

Is anyone familiar with using Irule and a global cache to control their main repeater through ip like the lutron app. I have it working with rs232 but I'm not sure if im able to use ip commands with out Irule having a login for the repeater?


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *parish99* /forum/post/21519312
> 
> 
> Is anyone familiar with using Irule and a global cache to control their main repeater through ip like the lutron app. I have it working with rs232 but I'm not sure if im able to use ip commands with out Irule having a login for the repeater?



Sent PM


----------



## arnobarno

Hello,

We are installing Radio RA2 to control the lights in our home. We'll also be installing some motorized shades from Lutron and integrating them into the system.


Our home has some existing motorized shades wired to line voltage SPDT switches that provide UP/STOP/DOWN control of the shades. Kind of stumped on how best to integrate this into Radio RA2 WITHOUT having to tear up the existing installation and hardwiring some motor control to the Garage Visor Controller dry contacts.


It seems like there should be some way of controlling this type of a switch at the location of the switch (much like I can retrofit RRA2 at the switch location only). I'd consider some other automation solution (other than RRA2) for the existing shades as well - just would like to be able to programmatically control the shades and limit the retrofit to the wall switches.


Now then, if I could ensure that UP and DOWN were not pressed at the same time, replacing an existing switch with two neutral switches (one controlling UP/STOP and the other DOWN/STOP) seems like it would do the right thing, but this is almost certainly a recipe to burn out the motor when the wrong thing is pressed.


Thoughts??

arn


----------



## spiwrx

We've done this with a simple SPDT Relay and RR2 switch. Assuming the shades stop on limit switches or are internally limited(most do). The Switch "On" can be shades up, and the Switch "Off" could be a full down, however this would give you no preset or stoppable mid position, you would then need two switches if you wanted that function, like you mentioned or get really creative with some other relays/control equipment. The VCRX allows easy integration for this function, but you need a place to put it that would allow you to wire to/from your shades which may be tricky if already in place. The VCRX would be cheaper than 2 dimmers.


EDIT:

You could use a single RR2 switch and alternating relay. This would allow on "ON" state of the switch to travel the shade(s) in what ever direction was opposite of the last direction and stop in an "OFF" state of the switch. However the system would have no 'Feed back' to know the shade position and timing events would get screwed up if some one manually adjusted them.


The best option IHMO would be the VCRX or 2 switches.


----------



## ddave12000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *arnobarno* /forum/post/21542202
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> We are installing Radio RA2 to control the lights in our home. We'll also be installing some motorized shades from Lutron and integrating them into the system.
> 
> 
> Our home has some existing motorized shades wired to line voltage SPDT switches that provide UP/STOP/DOWN control of the shades. Kind of stumped on how best to integrate this into Radio RA2 WITHOUT having to tear up the existing installation and hardwiring some motor control to the Garage Visor Controller dry contacts.
> 
> 
> It seems like there should be some way of controlling this type of a switch at the location of the switch (much like I can retrofit RRA2 at the switch location only). I'd consider some other automation solution (other than RRA2) for the existing shades as well - just would like to be able to programmatically control the shades and limit the retrofit to the wall switches.
> 
> 
> Now then, if I could ensure that UP and DOWN were not pressed at the same time, replacing an existing switch with two neutral switches (one controlling UP/STOP and the other DOWN/STOP) seems like it would do the right thing, but this is almost certainly a recipe to burn out the motor when the wrong thing is pressed.
> 
> 
> Thoughts??
> 
> arn



If you have a line voltage switch in place already, why can't you put in a RA2 keypad to control the shades?


----------



## arnobarno

Thanks for the reply.


We will be purchasing a VCRX anyway; however, mounting it in a place that allows it to control a relay that is wired to the motorized shades isn't an option, unfortunately.


I ran across an old thread (not RRA2) where someone talked about using one switch to control off/on and a second switch to swing between up/down. It sounds to me that this second "switch" is really your relay (but I dont know as I'm a software guy and this is all hardware to me) and there doesn't seem to be an in-wall RRA2 device that can do this (allow current to either flow to the up or down motor).


Having one switch for up/stop and another for down/stop just sounds like it will eventually burn out the motor when the inevitable mistake is made.


I can't believe there isn't some RF device that can do this by just replacing the SPDT in wall switch I have (RRA2 or other). Am I the only guy in the world that has motorized shades they'd like to integrate into a control system without retrofitting new motorized rollers/rf control boxes, etc.???


----------



## arnobarno

How will the keypad control the shades? I'm not getting how you can do this. What function of the keypad (hybrid or standard) allows you to do this?


Remember that I need to switch between 3 states.


----------



## spiwrx

For 3 states You would have to use 2 switches and two keypad buttons (used as room or path logic programing) one for "UP/STOP" Other for "DOWN/STOP", or as suggested One Button for "ON/OFF or START/STOP" other for "Raise/Lower" Either would work, however the latter would potentially require 2 button presses to start/reverse also the use and system feedback would be less intuitive and would also complicate time clock programming. Depending on the shade type the first scenario may work without relay(_However relays are recommended to prevent both states from being active ~ 2x DPDT_), the second scenario would require a relay at least for the "UP/DOWN" without potential for 2 states to be active.


Again the VCRX is the best way to handle this and a second VCRX is probably less expensive than another switch and relays, and would occupy the same or less space.


To clarify, _without using the VCRX_, 2 switches are required to develop 3 states (Up, Down, & Stop). 2x DPDT Relays should be used to electrically interlock the states so "UP" & "DOWN" cannot be active at the same time (to protect the motor(s)).


Alternately a single switch with a simple SPDT relay can be used to fully open or close the shades from the system,(_any mid-position stopping with one switch and relay could only be done locally by the original shade control_)


----------



## leftheaded

how much wiring is involved to install RA2?


i'm doing major electrical work as part of a kitchen remodel (new panel, new circuits etc..). would that wiring change if i go with the RA2 lutron system? if so, how much? i did just learn about the benefits of keypads and streamlining the number of dimmers to a panel in my util closet. sounds like a major redesign. but then we're also leaning towards auto shades instead of shutters now. scope, i hate it.


should i get my electrician to install everything? or should i have a lutron installer? would i need both (electrician for rough, and lutron specialist for finishes)? i have no contract with an electrician yet, just a bid.


not sure how to proceed


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftheaded* /forum/post/21599617
> 
> 
> how much wiring is involved to install RA2? Just be sure there is 110 volt run to the closet where you might put a keypad
> 
> 
> i'm doing major electrical work as part of a kitchen remodel (new panel, new circuits etc..). would that wiring change if i go with the RA2 lutron system? if so, how much? i did just learn about the benefits of keypads and streamlining the number of dimmers to a panel in my util closet. sounds like a major redesign. but then we're also leaning towards auto shades instead of shutters now. scope, i hate it.
> 
> 
> should i get my electrician to install everything? or should i have a lutron installer? would i need both (electrician for rough, and lutron specialist for finishes)? i have no contract with an electrician yet, just a bid.
> 
> 
> not sure how to proceed



there is no special wiring needed: that is the advantage of RR2. Run 110 volt line to closet for a keypad


Lutron dimmers and keypads replace existing switches/ dimmers


with new construction, you can use builders basic switches : than the Lutron electrician replaces some with RR2 devices whenever you decide


of course you can start with installing RR2 devices (that requires a lot of planning to do it right)


The Lutron programmer will use a licensed electrician to install devices: might be a subcontractor


----------



## leftheaded

The thing that is throwing me off is the idea to put most of my switches in in the utility closet (next to the new elec panel). The guy at the store said i would leave all the switches on, and never really go back there. Rather, i'd use keypads to operate things, keeping the look "sleek".


Is it common to hide the switches in a closet? Or is it "bad" not to?


Fwiw, My wife really doesnt care about hiding switches. In fact, my original idea didnt even include any keypads - i was simply going to replace my switches with lutron dimmers after the contractors were done.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftheaded* /forum/post/21600569
> 
> 
> The thing that is throwing me off is the idea to put most of my switches in in the utility closet (next to the new elec panel). The guy at the store said i would leave all the switches on, and never really go back there. Rather, i'd use keypads to operate things, keeping the look "sleek".
> 
> 
> Is it common to hide the switches in a closet? Or is it "bad" not to?
> 
> 
> Fwiw, My wife really doesnt care about hiding switches. In fact, my original idea didnt even include any keypads - i was simply going to replace my switches with lutron dimmers after the contractors were done.



I never hid a switch in a closet: but the lighting designer did leave at least 2 boxes where he thought a RR device may be added in the future: so it ended up a box with a blank cover: for future use


You will need a RR2 dimmer/ device for every circuit you want to control, and accessory dimmers, like 3 way controls, are cheap to add


put keypads in strategic areas: by each entrance door, in the MBR, kitchen, etc


in my 5500 sq ft home, I have 6 keypads, 20 dimmers, 15 acc dimmers, and a GFE: if I had planned it better, I could have reduced the count: you can never have too many though: all a function of cost


planning can reduce the device count: for example use a hybrid control in place of a dimmer and a keypad


that is why I recommend to start with a basic system: adding devices is easy: the nice thing about RR2 is you can add devices at any time


----------



## markrubin

forgot to add


say you want to add a device where there is no AC prewired:


you can add a Pico wireless PJ-2B-GWH-IO1 control, battery powered, for on/off or any program you copy & paste to each button


RR2 is highly flexible


----------



## leftheaded

thanks mark, really helpful.


looks like i'm going to be at lutron's website all day planning out my whole setup:


recessed lighting and controls

motorized shades

thermostat



i've been wanting to get a system like this for years and now i'm going to cram all my research and design into 2 days. oh well, i'm not doing this kitchen remodel and missing out on the ideal time to get my automation system


----------



## sequoiadave

You should use an electrician that is RA2 certified. After that installation and programming is simple.


----------



## ksalno

I would advise against hiding switches in a utility closet. It might give a cleaner look but it doesn't work well for guests, cleaning people, etc. who aren't going to know how to operate your keypads or ipad remote. I uses the dimmers/switches for single load control and use the keypads for macro functions like Scenes and All Off.


----------



## BradKas

Personally I don't agree.


What I will say is remotely locating switches is going to 'force' you to design the system layout better. And system layout is one thing that takes experience.


Some areas will still work better to have devices local, like hallways and stairwells on the 'out skirts' of the system, or an under-cabinet lighting switch in a task area of the kitchen, etc.


In a keypad control only system the keypad layout is crucial.


As far as cleaning people go, I give them their own 'Clean Up', and 'Goodbye' button. This way they do not have to interact with the lighting control system in any way, other pushing a single button when they begin their clean up.


Now guests can be tricky, because controlling advanced lighting can be difficult whether you're looking at a keypad, or 2 4 gangs stacked on top of each other, but simple, consistent programming is going to be the winner here.


Top button should always turn the lights On, and be clearly engraved 'Room On', 'Bright', 'General', etc. Bottom button should always turn the lights off.


For keypads in heavy flow areas with intersecting hall ways and stairwells that are keypad only control, there should be a keypad dedicated to 'toggling' all of these. A 4 button keypad that says, "East Hall, West Hall, Upstairs, Downstairs" is certainly easier than a 4 gang switch box for a guest.


Once we describe the benefits of whole home lighting control to people, they are generally fully on board, but 90% + of them seek us out purely because they want to 'clean up the walls'. Madness? Maybe, but to ignore this would be insane.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leftheaded* /forum/post/21599617
> 
> 
> sounds like a major redesign.



This could be a lot of re-work but the end result is less wall clutter, easier point of use. Where you may have 4 or more dimmers or switches, now you can have one simple keypad, easy to use & understand [_all RR2 keypads come w/ free pre-paid custom engraving_]. Sure if you lived in the home and you had a bank of switches or dimmers you may get used to your layout, but if you've ever walked into someones place with a huge bank of switches you know how frustrating it can be to figure it out.


This is pretty common for us (hiding dimmers/switches), but sometimes it just doesn't make sense with existing wiring/layout, but don't forget about the hybrid keypad! You can use for a single(wired) circuit and a keypad.


----------



## jdahlke

Is it possible to program scenes that turn some lights off but allow you to use the raise/lower buttons of the keypad to adjust only the lights that are still on? As it appears to work to me hitting the raise button raises the brightness of even the lights I wanted off which is not what I wanted.


----------



## BradKas

Default raise/lower will control your last button press.


Other options are:


Raise/lower last button double tapped & raise/lower programmed device(s).


Using these options there is no way to properly achieve what you're asking, although when using raise/lower programmed devices you could select all of the devices you want to have independent raise/lower control over, or create another scene, and control in independently.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jdahlke* /forum/post/21613441
> 
> 
> Is it possible to program scenes that turn some lights off but allow you to use the raise/lower buttons of the keypad to adjust only the lights that are still on? As it appears to work to me hitting the raise button raises the brightness of even the lights I wanted off which is not what I wanted.



As BradKas mentioned the raise/lower button will only affect the devices programmed to the last button press. So the only 'workaround' I see is to create a new scene with only the devices on it that you want to control. Of course that means you will have to turn off the previous scene first. Might be better to use "Toggle Control" or "Path of Light" programming logic on the previous scene to be able to turn it off, then you would have use another scene just for those devices you want controlled by the raise/lower.


The idea behind scenes is that you have exact levels you want to get to, if you are continually changing you should program another scene for that activity or you'll have to adjust to the aforementioned method.


----------



## spiwrx

Hanks Electrical Supply is hosting a Radio Ra 2 "BLAST" training on March 28th in Irvine, CA. Attendance to this basic RR2 class will get access to the "essentials" (100 device L1) software and registered for future updates.


Class typically runs about 8am to 3pm (depending on Q&A).


If you are interested in attending please send an email (preferred) or private message. paul [at] hankselectric [dot] net


Depending on demand and attendance we may also have some special pricing on "Packages" made available to those who attend the class.


Class is free but attendance (must show) and pre-registration is required for the software.


If you have questions please contact me or post away....


----------



## arnobarno

Hello,

We've got our RR2 system installed and all is working well. We've also integrated it with our security system using the VCRX so when a burglary or fire condition is detected by our security system, a contact closure is fired on the VCRX and all is good (well, actually, nothing would be good in either of those cases but the system is performing perfectly). I am also receiving events from the alarm system (as a contact closure) when the system is armed/disarmed.


Anyway, I've been looking through Lutron's App Note #451 for integrating with a particular type of security system and their suggestion for what phantom scenes to use in the main controller when arming/disarming events occur. I'd like to replicate this behavior but we don't have that particular type of alarm system and our alarm system is not going to generate the proper sequence of serial commands to the main controller (or any for that matter).


So, I'm kind of stumped as to how to implement this. Essentially, what the app note suggests is that an arm event will trigger both a scene and a timeclock mode. Furthermore, it what scene it calls for is dependent on whether or not it is "day" or "night."


Clearly, I *COULD* write a program that monitored the main repeater for some type of event (arm). Then, upon seeing that event, my program would send the appropriate sequence of events back to the main repeater. But that requires that I can still program, and it has been 15 years since I've set up a development environment on a PC and the overhead of starting with that, well, probably isn't worth the effort. Is anyone using (or know of) any simple HA software that would allow this type of setup? If the HA software is more complicated than setting up a development environment, then maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet, but this doesn't seem like it should be that complicated...


I could also do a kludgey hack using the timeclock, but that has its own set of issues.


Thoughts...


----------



## schalliol

I thought I saw someone say that the original RadioRA accessory switches will work with RR2, but I can't find it again. It does make sense that these ought to work, along with Maestro accessory switches. Can anyone confirm compatibility? I know mention of compatibility isn't in the specs, but will it work? It sure would make transitioning from RR1 to RR2 easier.


----------



## Fiasco

I can confirm it. Yes original RA accessory dimmer/switch will work


----------



## schalliol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fiasco* /forum/post/21824239
> 
> 
> I can confirm it. Yes original RA accessory dimmer/switch will work



Very interesting and sensible. Since we're on the topic, does anyone know if Maestro accessory dimmers will work? I would think so since there's not a lot of reason or RR1 or RR2 to have different technology for 3 or 4-way switches.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol* /forum/post/21824399
> 
> 
> Very interesting and sensible. Since we're on the topic, does anyone know if Maestro accessory dimmers will work? I would think so since there's not a lot of reason or RR1 or RR2 to have different technology for 3 or 4-way switches.



the instructions for the RD-RD accessory dimmer refers to Maestro series so I am guessing it would


I was also told RR1 acc dimmers would not work going from RR1 to RR2 but in fact they do work: could have just left the old ones in place


----------



## ELECTRICDON




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> the instructions for the RD-RD accessory dimmer refers to Maestro series so I am guessing it would
> 
> 
> I was also told RR1 acc dimmers would not work going from RR1 to RR2 but in fact they do work: could have just left the old ones in place



Yes, both old radiora and maestro accessory dimmers and switches will work. I have done it myself.


----------



## schalliol

Very cool. I guess if there's a RadioRA3, this bodes well.


----------



## DVDCI

RA garage door openers will work as well with RA2 from my understanding.


----------



## SBSmarthomes

Is it possbile to control the contact closure outputs on the RR-VCRX-WH Visor Control Receiver using button press from a seeTouch wall mount keypad (programmed through RR2 Essentials), or can the CCOs only be controlled from the car visors?


I don't often use the visor receiver...


----------



## ksalno

Has anyone done integration with a Jandy Aqualink pool controller? It has an RS-232 serial interface. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to control the pool equipment via RRA2.


----------



## arnobarno

You can program the contact closure to trigger from the keypad.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno* /forum/post/21846366
> 
> 
> Has anyone done integration with a Jandy Aqualink pool controller? It has an RS-232 serial interface. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to control the pool equipment via RRA2.



Not to the best of my knowledge, depending on what you want to do, you may be able to parallel a switch (or switch & relay) to turn on pumps and such and perhaps the same using dimmer or switches for lights. The contact closures on the VCRX could also be used...


----------



## Neurorad

It seems that the garage door opener HomeLink protocol is being phased out and replaced with MyQ.


Anyone have any insite to this, for the VCRX?


----------



## Neurorad

For the record, when asked about compatibility of the Chamberlain Liftmaster Smart Control Panel with the VCRX, Lutron TS said:


"Any opener that can be controlled with a contact closure is compatible with a VCRX. If the CCI wiring carries low voltage the VCRX can handle that. Just be aware that if that is how the remote panel powers up, then pulsing the input will short the control panel."


Maybe in the future, I can use a garage door opener remote wired to the VCRX, if I feel the need for the Chamberlain Liftmaster Smart Panel. For now, I'll skip the Smart Panel.


The Smart Panel is powered by the GDO, via the CCI on the GDO.


----------



## iculookn

Hi


Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but about to start interior design of our new house (5330sqf, 4 storeys, Level 1, Living area/Level 2 Bedrooms/Level 3 Bedrooms/Level 4 Entertainment room)


Can someone point me to a resource that show the major differences between RA2/HW & SQ? i'm a bit lost.


I have contacted a lighting designer and they are coming out this week, but jsut want to read up on the differences


Also, I know this is a hard question, but for my size place, which system should I be looking at? (only really need scene's in the Living area and the Entertainment room - I THINK)


Thanks


Eric...


----------



## Neurorad

Pages 28-29 of this document provide a comparison of HomeWorks QS and RA2:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...HWQS_trade.pdf


----------



## sequoiadave




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iculookn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> 
> Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but about to start interior design of our new house (5330sqf, 4 storeys, Level 1, Living area/Level 2 Bedrooms/Level 3 Bedrooms/Level 4 Entertainment room)
> 
> 
> Can someone point me to a resource that show the major differences between RA2/HW & SQ? i'm a bit lost.
> 
> 
> I have contacted a lighting designer and they are coming out this week, but jsut want to read up on the differences
> 
> 
> Also, I know this is a hard question, but for my size place, which system should I be looking at? (only really need scene's in the Living area and the Entertainment room - I THINK)
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Eric...



Major difference is cost. RA2 lighting control would be around 20K for equipment, design and program Homeworks QS ( not SQ ) would be about double. Main difference is that RA 2 actions are limited to program functions. Programed loads on, off or nothing. You have astronomical time clock functions and IOS App. with edit functions. Will need accredited installer with Inclusive software ( 200 devices and shade programming ). Homeworks QS has a central processor and conditional logic. Able set triggers and actions to produce custom programming need accredited installer and dealer/programer for installation.


----------



## kevin gilmore

blast training now available to anyone online...

http://www.tahitionly.com/images/rad...iningclass.pdf


----------



## markrubin

question for controlling swimming pool pumps


I would like to use RR2 time clock function to control two 220 volt pool pumps


I am thinking about using the appliance module or similar to trigger a 220 volt contactor for each pump


Does this sound doable? any better ideas?


----------



## kevin gilmore

Already doing similar thing with a contactor to control highly inductive load

that drives low voltage lighting. So you would need a 2 pole contactor of

the right amperage, with a 110vac coil. Many of the contactors are 24vac

coil only, so you need a small transformer.


----------



## spiwrx

Appliance module will work or simple RR2 switch, go for it...


We have had some issues with min. Load trying to operate very small or low consumption relays, but just get you typical general purpose Relays from Furnas, Siemens, Square D, & you shouldn't have a problem. These type of relays can make some noise, so avoid mounting in/near an area where a slight hummmmm might be annoying. (_Also, some GFCI Spa panels may already include this equipment and you may just need to re-wire the control circuit_)


We use the 42 series from Siemens/Furnas and never have a problem.


As mentioned above, be sure to order 120vac coils to avoid the need for a control transformer.


IM me if you have any problems sourcing this stuff, we can help.


----------



## CPat

Quick question. Does the main repeater need a wired connection (cat5) to my home network at all times or just for the initial setup?


Thanks


Chris


----------



## markrubin

(deleted: incorrect information in my reply)


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/22024291
> 
> 
> question for controlling swimming pool pumps
> 
> 
> I would like to use RR2 time clock function to control two 220 volt pool pumps
> 
> 
> I am thinking about using the appliance module or similar to trigger a 220 volt contactor for each pump
> 
> 
> Does this sound doable? any better ideas?



I ended up ordering a Jandy Zodiac IQ904P: it includes the contactors and an iPhone app: I think I can control it by my RTI system

http://www.poolplaza.com/P-POL-iQ904P-3401.html


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CPat* /forum/post/22043193
> 
> 
> Quick question. Does the main repeater need a wired connection (cat5) to my home network at all times or just for the initial setup?



Just to clarify, although most on this forum are likely to be integrating, the main repeater only needs to connected to your network (Cat5) if you are going to operate it from wifi [_iDevice or android_] and/or RS232 connection for 3rd party integration.


If you are only going to operate the RR2 system from Lutron RR2 devices only, no other connections are required. [_initial computer programming will require temporary connection_]


----------



## DMILANI

I wanted to report that I took the online Blast-On training last month and finally got access to the Essentials software. I had to purchase a starter kit before being allowed access, and must thank Paul from Hank's Electric for providing great prices on RadioRA 2 hardware. I should be receiving the kit in about a week.


----------



## jmanderson10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22179822
> 
> 
> I wanted to report that I took the online Blast-On training last month and finally got access to the Essentials software. I had to purchase a starter kit before being allowed access, and must thank Paul from Hank's Electric for providing great prices on RadioRA 2 hardware. I should be receiving the kit in about a week.



Would you mind explaining a little how that works and what you had to do. I am very intersted in RadioRa2 but like to tinker and I didnt know that doing the training was even an option. I'm totally jealous.


----------



## DMILANI

I just followed the instructions here:

https://lutron.learn.com/files/pdf/BLAST_Sell_Sheet_3682540b(1).pdf 


Eveything is done online, and you can refer to the online modules or any other documentation from Lutron's site during the final exam.


Let me know if you have any questions.


----------



## az1324

What do you have to register as to be eligible for the BLAST training? Under the profession field it lists "Homeowner" as an option but not sure if you have to choose from a specific subset of professions and provide verifiable business details since it says:


> Quote:
> *Company address information is required to access certain Lutron training content and events.


----------



## DMILANI

No professional verification was needed. I'm pretty sure I selected Homeowner.


----------



## markrubin

question:


is there a way to determine if an installed RR dimmer is an original or a RR2 device without removing it?


TIA


----------



## DMILANI

Just installed my starter kit in the kitchen, and a switch for the front door lights. So far, works like a charm, even integrated with my RTI system.


----------



## spiwrx

None that I'm aware of. The RR (Legacy) and RR2 devices look identical. Perhaps you may be able to see if the devices have wire leads or are screw terminals, chances are if you can see that far you can also see the label on the side more clearly...


You should be able to easily tell by the main repeater, keypad button style, or any other interface they may have though...


----------



## DMILANI

What's the typical turn around time to get a keypad engraved using one of the certificates? Also, does anyone know if a keypad kit for a hybrid keypad will later fit a standard keypad (i.e., are they interchangeable)?


Thanks.


----------



## markrubin

could use some help:


I want to add shade control buttons to a RR2 Grafic Eye QS which has only the basic 5 button keypad installed


I need part number/ link to add another keypad (s) and new drop down cover with addl openings



TIA


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22353010
> 
> 
> What's the typical turn around time to get a keypad engraved using one of the certificates? Also, does anyone know if a keypad kit for a hybrid keypad will later fit a standard keypad (i.e., are they interchangeable)?
> 
> Thanks.


A) I've heard them take as little as a week to up to 4 weeks.

B) No. I've had them send a Hybrid cover by accident once, or my customer ordered it wrong on the engraving sheet. Regardless the frame has different attachment clips. My quick fix was to remove the engraved buttons from the hybrid frame to a regular frame. Not to much trouble if you kept the factory blank.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22353488
> 
> 
> could use some help:
> 
> I want to add shade control buttons to a RR2 Grafic Eye QS which has only the basic 5 button keypad installed
> 
> I need part number/ link to add another keypad (s) and new drop down cover with addl openings
> 
> TIA


The shade control buttons will come with a replacement cover if ordered as such. Order "QSGFP-1(color)" where the 1 represents 1 shade group of buttons & will be an entire replacement cover including top 1/2, bottom 1/2, scene & shade control buttons(should also include another engraving cert.). PM or Email me if you need pricing. You might also need an interface if using 3rd party shades.


----------



## DMILANI

I see from the CEDIA announcement that Radio RA2 Fan Control will be available Q4. Lots of folks have been waiting for this.

http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_announces_the_availability_of_fan_speed_controls/K297


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22379868
> 
> 
> I see from the CEDIA announcement that Radio RA2 Fan Control will be available Q4. Lots of folks have been waiting for this.
> http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_announces_the_availability_of_fan_speed_controls/K297



I've seen it in action on the Lutron Demo Bus/Motor-home, and my reps have confirmed this(_though sometime there launch dates are off_). I'll post when we get our first shipment.


----------



## markrubin

Lutron RR2 dimmer for LED's (as suggested by Spiwrx)


I tried two RR2 RRD-6NA-WH dimmers in place of standard 600w incandescent RR2 dimmers for use with Phillips dimmable ambilights: they work great: I can dim the LED bulbs to a lower level (but still not down to an incandescent bulb level) and I don't need to keep one incandescent in each zone anymore


If I had it to do over again, I would have specified these dimmers even though they are more expensive: now I have to change out the rest of the zones where I changed to LED bulbs


the 6NA is specifically designed for LED loads in that its minimum load rating is 5 watts versus 50 watts, so it senses and works properly with LED bulbs


just for info: the LED bulbs I have had great success with are Philips Ambilight dimmable (par 30L and Par 38) and Eccosmart par 38 (Eccosmarts are rated for indoor or outdoor use): all of these bulbs purchased at Home Depot for under $30.00 each but in very limited supply


when you change dimmers, you have to first deactivate the old one in the program: than reset its load type to the new load type *ELV/MLV/ INC adaptive dimmer* in the program and reactivate them: you may have to default the new dimmer in order to get it to be recognized for activation


----------



## markrubin

Lutron QS wireless shades


had my first install of Lutron QS Honeycomb shades in my HT


I ordered 5 Honeycomb wireless blackout cellular shades from an authorized dealer: I asked dealer to measure shades for a tight fit for light control


all 5 shades showed up in about 2-3 weeks: measurements were spot on


-- one shade worked flawlessly upon install

-- 3 shades could not be installed because Lutron sent the wrong brackets (depends if housing is aluminum or vinyl)

-- 1 shade was defective in that the motor kept operating until the batteries got very hot


Lutron sent replacement brackets and an advance replacement for the defective shade and now all 5 shades work nicely


I noticed one shade had a flaw in the blackout coating in one honeycomb cell: I sent photos of that to Lutron customer service and they agreed to replace it


Control of the shades can be done several ways: I installed Pico battery operated shade switches for local control: I am adding shade buttons to my Grafic Eye QS: can also control by iPad and RTI remote


all in all these are beautiful shades that operate well: I am ordering more...


edit: wife is not easily impressed: she likes the QS shades but says the house is becoming too automated: what happens if there is a power outage or loss of program? we have more rooms that need new shades: I want the QS shades but her point is well taken: she wants more shades with pull strings that the dog likes to eat...its always something


----------



## Neurorad

Mark, thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.


Does anyone know if the Lutron honeycomb shades come in a relatively water-resistant form? All the honeycomb shades I've seen seem inappropriate above a kitchen sink - looks like they'd stain easily.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22390001
> 
> 
> I tried two RR2 RRD-6NA-WH dimmers in place of standard 600w incandescent RR2 dimmers for use with Phillips dimmable ambilights: they work great: I can dim the LED bulbs to a lower level (but still not down to an incandescent bulb level) and I don't need to keep one incandescent in each zone anymore
> 
> If I had it to do over again, I would have specified these dimmers even though they are more expensive: now I have to change out the rest of the zones where I changed to LED bulbs



Just to mention, Lutron has a made "Report Cards" for those LED lamps they have tested in house, with their different dimmers. Please take a moment to check it out. You can also call Lutron, many times they just haven't published info on lamps they have tested for one reason or another. They best way to use this tool is select the dimmer type you will be using and leave all other fields alone, it will populate a list of the LED they have tested for that device and you can click through for specifics: http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Design-SelectionTools/Pages/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22390143
> 
> 
> Mark, thanks for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Lutron honeycomb shades come in a relatively water-resistant form? All the honeycomb shades I've seen seem inappropriate above a kitchen sink - looks like they'd stain easily.


From what I've seen and from the training, I don't know that frequent cleaning from kitchen use would be the best environment.


----------



## DMILANI

Mark.


Did you buy the battery powered shades, or the hard wired version? If battery, wouldn't they still work with your Pico switches even if you lost power? I believe the Main Repeater is not needed if you are close enough to the shades to control them directly.


-D


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22390058
> 
> 
> Lutron QS wireless shades
> 
> had my first install of Lutron QS Honeycomb shades in my HT
> 
> I ordered 5 Honeycomb wireless blackout cellular shades from an authorized dealer: I asked dealer to measure shades for a tight fit for light control
> 
> all 5 shades showed up in about 2-3 weeks: measurements were spot on
> 
> -- one shade worked flawlessly upon install
> 
> -- 3 shades could not be installed because Lutron sent the wrong brackets (depends if housing is aluminum or vinyl)
> 
> -- 1 shade was defective in that the motor kept operating until the batteries got very hot
> 
> Lutron sent replacement brackets and an advance replacement for the defective shade and now all 5 shades work nicely
> 
> I noticed one shade had a flaw in the blackout coating in one honeycomb cell: I sent photos of that to Lutron customer service and they agreed to replace it
> 
> Control of the shades can be done several ways: I installed Pico battery operated shade switches for local control: I am adding shade buttons to my Grafic Eye QS: can also control by iPad and RTI remote
> 
> all in all these are beautiful shades that operate well: I am ordering more...
> 
> edit: wife is not easily impressed: she likes the QS shades but says the house is becoming too automated: what happens if there is a power outage or loss of program? we have more rooms that need new shades: I want the QS shades but her point is well taken: she wants more shades with pull strings that the dog likes to eat...its always something


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22398915
> 
> 
> Mark.
> 
> 
> Did you buy the battery powered shades, or the hard wired version? If battery, wouldn't they still work with your Pico switches even if you lost power? I believe the Main Repeater is not needed if you are close enough to the shades to control them directly.
> 
> 
> -D



Shades are all battery powered...but I am not sure if a Pico will talk direct to a shade: if so that would help my case


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22354222
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22353488
> 
> 
> could use some help:
> 
> I want to add shade control buttons to a RR2 Grafic Eye QS which has only the basic 5 button keypad installed
> 
> I need part number/ link to add another keypad (s) and new drop down cover with addl openings
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> The shade control buttons will come with a replacement cover if ordered as such. Order "QSGFP-1(color)" where the 1 represents 1 shade group of buttons & will be an entire replacement cover including top 1/2, bottom 1/2, scene & shade control buttons(should also include another engraving cert.).
Click to expand...


I installed the Grafic Eye QS kit to add 3 shade buttons to the front: it was quick and easy and worked first time: however there was no engraving certificate (not a big deal)


it did come with a replacement light control button so I ended up with a spare


----------



## markrubin

question:


need part number of a single gang switch (non dimmable: on/off only) that can be controlled by RR2:


I thought it was CA-1PSH-WH but that may be a switch only?


----------



## DMILANI

It's RRD-8ANS-WH. I used this for my front door lights, works great.


-D


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22429862
> 
> 
> question:
> 
> need part number of a single gang switch (non dimmable: on/off only) that can be controlled by RR2:
> 
> I thought it was CA-1PSH-WH but that may be a switch only?


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Thank you


----------



## spiwrx

Sorry for not using the mutli-quote thingy, sometimes just gets a little too cluttered....


Post programming the Pico should operate the shades directly.


Confirming the RRD-8ANS is the correct switch (still has a small min. load. 10w I think w/o checking)


If you need engraving for the shade buttons, just call Lutron, they'll usually help you out, as it should have shipped with it, may need an invoice.


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Thank you



I think the min load is 5w


I notice my LED bulbs seem to pulse brightness at some settings of the 8ANS: as long as I use different preset levels I can avoid that (this in circuits with only 2 or 3 LED bulbs)


----------



## spiwrx

Just for quick ref. & because I was to lazy busy to look it up yesterday:


from Lutron's page: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/044-282.pdf 

 


Just an FYI from my experience, for the dimmers min. load I would suggest adding 20-30% (esp. for LED) for more consistent performance if possible. & be just as careful not to hit the max. inrush from multiple LED's. Not on this sheet and varies from combination of LED product to Dimmer, see Lutron's LED page for more info. http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Design-SelectionTools/Pages/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22431125
> 
> 
> I think the min load is 5w
> 
> I notice my LED bulbs seem to pulse brightness at some settings of the 8ANS: as long as I use different preset levels I can avoid that (this in circuits with only 2 or 3 LED bulbs)



Just to avoid confusion, the 8ANS is switch only[on & off] and shouldn't have any preset levels. If you don't make the min. it may never shut off or strobe.


I haven't seen an LED lighting product yet with 100% range. All will get to some low point and either flicker or shut off, some may stay at a certain low level and not any further. In the case of LED lamps, some are not even dimmable, be sure to read the box.


Unfortunately with LED's there is no 100% guarantee yet. I sell the same combinations to people and in different home, we get different results with the same product. In some circumstances and I think mostly with cheaper LED retro fits there seems to be some RF interference as well that causes problems, like flickering or dimming erratically. We try and stick with good products like Halo, Cree (& Nora w/ Cree LED), Lutron and have the best results. But Lutron has spent a lot of time testing LED's and there is a lot of good info to research on their site before you buy...


----------



## markrubin

understood: the 8ANS is being used for on/off florescent lights in equipment closets (no dimming)


I am about to install 5 more 6NA dimmers for LED loads: each of these circuits have 9 PAR 38 dimmable LED bulbs so it should give a good idea how they work with min/max LED loads


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22434115
> 
> 
> I am about to install 5 more 6NA dimmers for LED loads: each of these circuits have 9 PAR 38 dimmable LED bulbs so it should give a good idea how they work with min/max LED loads


*STOP!!!: read below:*


OK, so this is a great example of what I was trying to explain a few messages back. If you go to that link for the LED information and find your dimmer & LED lamp (or LED product) you will see that for a TCP LED PAR38 (17w) they recommend a 6NA for up to 6pcs and a 10ND for up to 11pcs. The inrush for so many of these individual drivers is so much that some manufacturers have started saying figure 10:1 ratio Dimmer Watt Rating to Actual LED wattage. Which more or less is consistent with Lutron's "Report Card" I am giving an example of here _(again for the TCP Brand PAR38 17w LED lamp)_. Lutron has done a lot of LED testing and has more specific info than using a generalized ratio, but if you can't find your lamp / dimmer combo you might want to contact them or the product manufacturer(s) before pushing it to far.


A copy of the TCP "Report Card" as published by and from Lutron's testing:
http://www.lutron.com/ResourceLibrary/LEDReportCard/TCP%20Par38%2017W%20Report%20Card.pdf 


Best way to find the report card for you lamp is go to the page below, and select the control type only, in this case Radio Ra 2, and hit search. It will populate a page with everything they have tested against that dimmer. The Center Column, "Product Name", is typically the exact part number of the LED product in question and links the aforementioned "Report Card".

Link to the "LED Product Selection Tool" by Lutron:
http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Design-SelectionTools/Pages/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx 

*SIDE NOTE:* (_off-topic none RR2 related_) Some of the actual LED (CL) Dimmers will have specific LED, & CFL wattage ratings listed on them. For an Example the new CL Diva Dimmer can handle 150watts of dimming LED or CFL but will still accommodate 600 incandescent watts, for mixed load types on the same dimmer, contact Lutron.


----------



## BradKas

Good info here guys ^


----------



## dring

[Updated on 2012-11-04]


Is there a bug in the RadioRA2 handling of HVAC setpoints when switching between modes (Normal, Away, Suspend, Alternate), or am I just failing to program the system correctly?


I'm a homeowner with a RadioRA 2 system which, as well as controlling some interior and exterior lighting, includes two of Lutron's TouchPRO thermostats (LR-HWLV-HVAC), one for the house furnace (heat only) and one for a heat-pump in a home theater (heating and cooling). I am currently using the latest version (5.6.6) of the Essentials software, provided to me by the Lutron-certified electrician who installed my system.


I have programmed a keypad button to toggle between "Normal" and "Suspend" mode, for exactly the reason given as an example in the programming interface:


> Quote:
> Use the Suspend mode to temporarily disable all timeclock events. Example: the homeowner is having a party and does not want the lights to turn off at midnight as they normally would.



However, whenever I use the programmed button to enter or exit Suspend mode, the heat setpoint for the house is changed to 16C and the heat / cool setpoints for the theater are changed to 16C / 27C. (I'm in Canada, hence Celsius.) That kinda defeats my purpose -- wanting the lights to stay on certainly doesn't mean I want the furnace turned down! I have not entered those values of 16C or 27C anywhere, so they must be a system default or something (16C = 61F, 27C = 81F).


I tried instead using "Alternate" mode with no associated timeclock events, but it behaves the same way.


I also have an "Away" button which exhibits _some_ of the same undesirable behavior. The software provides a way to specify the desired HVAC setpoints for Away mode, and entering Away mode does correctly change to those programmed setpoints (in my case, 15C for the house and 15C / 25C for the theater). When exiting Away mode, _if it's daytime_, the house setpoint correctly changes to my programmed (in a Daily Schedule) daytime temperature of 21C. However, _if it's nighttime_, it changes to 16C, rather than my scheduled nighttime setpoint of 15C.










For the theatre, which does not have a Daily Schedule, exiting Away mode always changes the setpoints to 16C / 27C.


I would think the correct behavior (and certainly my desired behavior) for the Suspend and Alternate modes would be to leave the HVAC setpoints untouched. Exiting Away mode ought to restore the Normal mode setpoints according to the Daily Schedule, regardless of what time it happens to be, or leave them untouched if there's no Daily Schedule. So back to my opening question: are these bugs in the system, or bugs in my understanding or competence with the software? [Update: It turns out that the system is behaving "correctly" after all, but under some circumstances is _misreporting_ the HVAC setpoints on the SeeTemp wall controls and in the iPad app. See subsequent posts #559 and #564 for more details.]


Thanks for whatever help anyone can offer, including admonition if I posted this question in an inappropriate thread.


----------



## spiwrx

Can you email me you program file paul (at) hankselectric (dot) net


----------



## dring

I have emailed my .lutx file to you, Paul. Thanks for taking a look at it!


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22398915
> 
> 
> Mark.
> 
> 
> Did you buy the battery powered shades, or the hard wired version? If battery, wouldn't they still work with your Pico switches even if you lost power? I believe the Main Repeater is not needed if you are close enough to the shades to control them directly.
> 
> 
> -D



I had 3 more QS Honeycomb shades installed (all OK) and spoke to the tech about this: and ran my own tests to confirm this info:


The answer is yes and no










If the Pico is part of the system program, and the main repeater is unpowered (or in activation or program mode) , the Pico control will not operate the shade even if battery powered


However you can manually program a QS shade to a Pico control: that works independent of the repeater: but you will be unable to control it from the system


----------



## az1324

What if you do both?


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22490898
> 
> 
> What if you do both?



good question


according to my understanding: you can link a shade *eithe*r to one or the other: but not both (not both a processor and a local control)


in the manual that accompanies QS shades: under troubleshooting:

*Symptom*: Cannot assign a control directly to the shade
*Solution*: Ensure shade is not activated into a RadioRA 2 or Homeworks QS system


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22490898
> 
> 
> What if you do both?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22491486
> 
> 
> one or the other: but not both



Exactly, one or the other just not both. However I think you should still get intermittent operation if the repeater loses power. I wonder though if you had a system programmed Pico and a shade programmed Pico (_2 Pico's, one as back-up_) if that would work? I'll have to ask next time I'm on with a tech.


----------



## spiwrx

Edited 11/1/12 for corrections.


First off this is a lengthy discussion on programming the touchPro(Honeywell) thermostat for Radio Ra 2 only. If you are reviewing other aspects of the RR2 system or programming you may want to skip this...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22478496
> 
> 
> Is there a bug in the RadioRA2 handling of HVAC setpoints



Side note: below is a lot of reference to the "daily schedule" and "timeclock events" which are very similar but are 2 completely different timing schedules available when using the RR2 system (timeclock events) with the touchPro thermostat(daily schedule). *---edit---*Should be mentioned that some of the "modes" we are talking about are keypad button modes and are associated with the system timeclock, not the daily schedule.


First let me say that I have been working with "dring" on this for a few days (via email) to both better my understanding of a piece _(touchPro Thermostat)_ I haven't really got to play with yet and hopefully find a solution for his problem. So the comments below are summarized from our conversations and have included some input from Lutron as well.


Second, one of the basic concerns from "dring" was the random set points that occurred, but were not in his programming. We still haven't figured this but is suggested that it was either a default setting or inadvertent use of the "Eco" or "Green" button. *---edit---*The random set points ended up being default value(s) the system sets and used when entering "Away" & "Suspend" mode. However you can adjust the setpoints in the away mode. Hopefully they will make a change to allow the same changes in other modes.


Third, The basic problem, as I understand it, was to switch between to set of temperature set points based on whether his theatre is occupied or not occupied by a button press. The simplest solution I could see was to run a timeclock event, the same every day for the unoccupied temperature and press a scene button (*not a time clock mode button, that would be way to intuitive) to adjust to to the occupied temperature at his discretion (no set schedule on when he'd occupy the room). I am waiting to see if any of the solutions presented solved his problem. In theory they should, however neither I nor Lutron could run tests immediately to confirm so we are awaiting his testing. _[* for keypad buttons programmed to timeclock event mode, they affect the all timeclock events enabled to that mode, except "suspend" which temporarily disables all timeclock events. Additionally some "away" temperatures can be enabled here directly(in the button programming) for the different HVAC devices]_ *---edit---*I believe "dring" ended up opting to just use 2 buttons to instantaneously select between his 2 set points. A one button solution would have had to include a timeclock.


For anyone else using the touchPro, it seems there is an included timer internal to the touchPro based on industry standard modes and timing that can also be programmed via the RR2 software(or directly on the unit). This is called the "Daily Schedule" in the software. It is completely independent from the normal system "timeclock(s)" that can be set up in the main repeater. Both can be used to control the touchPro. (BTW, the "daily schedule" is unique to the touchPro only, the regular seeTemp & controller work off the system "timeclock" only).*---edit---*This was a missunderstanding of mine. Both of the RR2 HVAC solutions utilize a daily schedule and/or timeclock.


There are a few points of confusion here:

1) You can set the "Daily Schedule" as any of us would with regular HVAC controls

2) You can also set up "timeclock events" (again on the main repeater timeclock independent of the daily schedule ).

3) Keypad buttons set up for "timeclock" modes affect those events, not the daily schedule modes.

4) Some of the "daily schedule" modes use the same name as some of the RR2 system scenes but are not the same, like "home", "away", etc....


The "timeclock events" can run on the timeclock, triggered by a button or motion sensor(or other input). The "Daily Schedule" is running in the background and taking precedence is the next timed event (regardless of where it came from: timeclock or daily schedule). It is not quite clear if you actually need the "daily schedule" running or setup. It appears you set a similar schedule in the "timeclock events". One thing to keep in mind is you can manipulate the "timeclock" events with keypad buttons or other inputs, but the "daily schedule" is (should be) unaffected by those same timeclock mode keypad buttons. So that right there may give you reason to use one or the other (or both).


(Bare with me as this deviates from the actual problem presented by "dring" a bit, but I think it's important in finding a solution)

This is where there might be an *unconfirmed* glitch or bug (or simply not intuitive). If you are running a daily schedule and a time clock event they are supposed to just run in the timed order. One taking over the other depending on the which is up next in the timing sequence, regardless if it's the "daily schedule" or the "timeclock" event (suggested by Lutron systems tech. support). However if that mode is altered from a "timeclock" mode by a keypad button press(or other input), it is unconfirmed if it will maintain it's current state if a "daily schedule" event occurs while it is altered from it's "timeclock" state. From Lutrons suggestion the next timed event (or button press for that matter) controlling the same device should take over regardless. Presumably, just as any other scene would take over the previous. *---edit---*Some testing by dring suggests what the initial Lutron tech. said. Timed events will still occur in order. at least confirmed for the suspend and alternate modes. In the Away mode it should do the same however that mode has it's own schedule to it's specific setpoints every 6 hours.


At this time there is no additional training on the touchPro programming available to us, so we are at the mercy of just trying it out. Incorporating both timers can open up some doors if used carefully, but my suggestion to "dring" was to setup up a timeclock event that runs once a day for what he wants to set for his "unoccupied" temperature set points, and use a keypad button toggle mode(or scene) to temporarily override and set to "occupied" temperature set points. I suggest only a timeclock event (assuming we can run without using a "daily schedule") to limit the possibility of conflicting clocks/modes and the ability to alter it with a keypad button or input. Here is the catch, the next "timeclock event" (or "daily schedule") will alter the set point to it's programmed level(s) for that time. So when you set "unoccupied" temperature it should be at a reasonable time of day where it wouldn't interrupt the use of the "occupied" setting. This is because the timeclock will have to have at least one time a day set. So this should probably be in the middle of the night or extremely early morning as to not interfere with the normal use of the space. It should also reset the room to unoccupied setting if the occupied scene was left on when the timeclock event happens again the next day.


It seems easier & more intuitive to set the "daily schedule", and in fact the software almost steps you directly into it. However I think for running other than a simple timed schedule you have to incorporate the timeclock event(s).


This all being said, I haven't even addressed the use of the app. on a smart device or tablet. I assume both the daily schedule and the timeclock events appear there as well and provide additional opportunity to mess it all up.


I'll come back and edit once "dring" reports his findings or I have opportunity to do some physical testing.


Anyone with additional experience or comments are encouraged to chime in!!

*---edit---*I think "dring" has found some acceptable ways to address his needs. Or at least has answers to why some of these things happened. He and I agree the "suspend" mode is not really as intuitive in terms of it's operation. We both think it should just pause the system in it's current state, but it does not. It apparently only suspends timeclock driven lighting events and sets the HVAC to a predetermined factory default.


----------



## sebis

Hello,


With help from Paul I ordered and then installed and programmed myself the RRA2 system at my house. I started with a "starting kit" plus couple extra dimmers, planning to add shades, more dimmers and more dimmers







.


My issue is with the Phillips LED lights (Philips 14-Watt (75W) LED BR40 Flood ) I got from Home Depot, while they are marked as dimmable and I am driving them with a RRD-6NA, I get absolutely no dimming. As soon as I hit 1% they lit to maximum. Anyone has experience with this LED bulb?


I have another RRD-6NA driving a Sylvania LED and that works just fine.


TIA


----------



## Shoop22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sebis*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22535752
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> With help from Paul I ordered and then installed and programmed myself the RRA2 system at my house. I started with a "starting kit" plus couple extra dimmers, planning to add shades, more dimmers and more dimmers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> My issue is with the Phillips LED lights (Philips 14-Watt (75W) LED BR40 Flood ) I got from Home Depot, while they are marked as dimmable and I am driving them with a RRD-6NA, I get absolutely no dimming. As soon as I hit 1% they lit to maximum. Anyone has experience with this LED bulb?
> 
> I have another RRD-6NA driving a Sylvania LED and that works just fine.
> 
> TIA



Verify that you have the hot and load wired properly. I had them reversed on one circuit and saw the behavior you are describing.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/510#post_22390058
> 
> 
> edit: wife is not easily impressed: she likes the QS shades but says the house is becoming too automated: what happens if there is a power outage or loss of program?


Presumably you'd put the power supply for the devices on a UPS. Either by bringing them together to one UPS or more than one at strategic locations. But if power reliability is an issue (like it is here in the DC area thanks to Pepco) then you'd do well to consider a generator. If you're spending this much on light and shades then wiring up for UPSes and/or getting a generator should be a no-brainer.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shoop22*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22535852
> 
> 
> Verify that you have the hot and load wired properly. I had them reversed on one circuit and saw the behavior you are describing.



This is often a problem with dimming 3 & 4-way circuits on Lutron Maestro & RR2 (& similar systems), however often overlooked specific to the RRD-6NA is the requirement of a neutral connection.


Most likely it is just the lamp(s) though. Some dim well others not. That one's not on Lutrons test list yet, but you might try calling their tech. support (_after the hurricane Sandy passes, they're closed today_) to see if they have any unpublished info on that lamp.


----------



## ksalno

I have two zone heating and am using the RA2 thermostats. One of the zones is for upstairs guest rooms that are used infrequently. Is there a way to set up two modes for this thermostat? The primary mode would hold a constant temp for heat (68) and cooling (78). Then I'd like to have a mode I can switch to from the iPad app when we have guests that would raise the heat (72) and lower the set cooling temps (74). I have the primary mode already programmed but haven't figured out how to override it when the rooms are occupied. My only options are to manually override the temp every day from the keypad or download a new program whenever we have guests coming, neither one of which is very efficient. Any tips would be appreciated.


Also, I've noticed when setting the heat and cooling set points for these thermostats, the Essentials program will not allow the heating temperature to be within 2 degrees of cooling. If I set the heat to 72 it will automatically increase the cooling to 75. If I lower the cooling to 74, it will automatically lower the heat setpoint to 71. Nothing I have found will let me override this. Is this a bug or is there some reason it works this way?


Karl


----------



## sebis




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22538279
> 
> 
> This is often a problem with dimming 3 & 4-way circuits on Lutron Maestro & RR2 (& similar systems), however often overlooked specific to the RRD-6NA is the requirement of a neutral connection.
> 
> Most likely it is just the lamp(s) though. Some dim well others not. That one's not on Lutrons test list yet, but you might try calling their tech. support (_after the hurricane Sandy passes, they're closed today_) to see if they have any unpublished info on that lamp.



Thank you both, it was the hot & load mixup, I followed the lead from the previous installer but since this is a 3-way circuit it was mixed up. All good now and I am happy to report that the "Philips 14-Watt (75W) LED BR40 Flood" works okay (not perfect) with the -6NA. It starts turning on at about 2% but when dimming it completely shuts off at 4%. Even better, there is no humming noise. However, I am still not sold on LED lights, besides the initial high cost ($40 a pop) I don't like the color of the light output and the dimming ramp is not as nice as on a incandescent. At this point I will keep incandescents in living area/bedrooms and will use LED outside, hallways and baths.


----------



## markrubin

We got hit hard by hurricane Sandy:


Many windows blown in, the entire downstairs is heavily damaged and there is some structural damage too even though the house is built on 90 pilings


One room not touched was my HT: after getting to it the shades would not operate and the room was dark: no power to the processor


I found a UPS that had a little juice left, connected the RR processor, and the shades opened


I have several hundred thousand dollars damage to the house and will rebuild but it will take months


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22542072
> 
> 
> We got hit hard by hurricane Sandy


Ouch! My sympathies Mark.


We only got heavy rain and wind around here. Just a few trees down, and miraculously our power didn't go out. Even the boat in Annapolis was only subjected to about a 3' higher tide and a lot of bilge pump action handling the rain (the cover was off to keep it from flapping).


I hope your rebuild gets going smoothly and finishes quick!


----------



## NickTheGreat

Sorry to hear that


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22538582
> 
> 
> I have two zone heating and am using the RA2 thermostats. One of the zones is for upstairs guest rooms that are used infrequently. Is there a way to set up two modes for this thermostat? The primary mode would hold a constant temp for heat (68) and cooling (78). Then I'd like to have a mode I can switch to from the iPad app when we have guests that would raise the heat (72) and lower the set cooling temps (74). I have the primary mode already programmed but haven't figured out how to override it when the rooms are occupied. My only options are to manually override the temp every day from the keypad or download a new program whenever we have guests coming, neither one of which is very efficient. Any tips would be appreciated.



Karl: I have a very similar RR2 set-up, except instead of infrequently-used guest rooms I have a sporadically-used home theater with a separate HVAC system. Same as you, I wanted to keep my theater heat and cool setpoints wider apart when it's unoccupied than when it's in use. After much tedious experimentation and many helpful email exchanges with Paul W., I finally found a solution that works for me. Here it is, in the form of instructions for you:
Do _not_ assign any Thermostat Schedule to the guest-rooms thermostat.
Do _not_ create any Timeclock events that affect the guest-rooms thermostat.
Do _not_ enable the guest-rooms HVAC settings in Away mode.
Program two keypad buttons (or phantom keypad buttons, if you only need control via your iPad) as "Single/Multi-room scene" type, one to set the guest-rooms' heat and cool setpoints to your preferred "occupied" levels, and one to set them to your preferred "unoccupied" levels.


With this configuration, you can manually change the guest-room setpoints at any time by pressing the appropriate button, and those setpoints will persist until the next time you change them; they will not be affected by any daily schedule or any changes of Timeclock modes (e.g., Suspend, Away, etc.).


A couple of warnings:
If you have enabled a thermostat's settings in Away mode (for example, your main house thermostat), any changes of Timeclock mode _other than switching to Away mode_ (e.g., from Away to Normal, Normal to Suspend, or Suspend to Normal) will cause the the iPad app to report _incorrect_ thermostat setpoint values for a while (anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours). You can see the actual (correct) setpoints by looking at the thermostat's own display screen. We're guessing this buggy behavior is due to some kind of synchonization/polling delay or data loss between the thermostat and the Main Repeater, or between the Repeater and the iPad, but have not yet been able to get any confirmation or explanation from Lutron.
Thermostat Schedules stay in force across all Timeclock modes (except Away mode, if the thermostat's settings have been enabled for Away mode). So, for example, Suspend mode can be used to prevent upcoming Timeclock events, but will not prevent an upcoming scheduled change of thermostat setpoints.



> Quote:
> Also, I've noticed when setting the heat and cooling set points for these thermostats, the Essentials program will not allow the heating temperature to be within 2 degrees of cooling. If I set the heat to 72 it will automatically increase the cooling to 75. If I lower the cooling to 74, it will automatically lower the heat setpoint to 71. Nothing I have found will let me override this. Is this a bug or is there some reason it works this way?



The "Minimum Heat/Cool Setpoint Difference" can be adjusted for the HVAC Controller that depends on seeTemp wall controls, but I haven't yet found a way to do that with the TouchPro thermostats. For the HVAC Controller, that value (as well as many other parameters) is set under Essentials' "design" tab, by right-clicking on the HVAC Controller name and selecting "Advanced Settings". Unfortunately, Essentials does not have an Advanced Settings choice for the TouchPros. Some of the same kind of "advanced settings" can made via the Installer Setup menu on the TouchPro itself, but there doesn't seem to be one that controls the minimum heat/cool gap.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22542072
> 
> 
> We got hit hard by hurricane Sandy:



Sorry to hear it Mark. I hope at least no one was injured.


Seems like most of the larger companies we deal with are based in the NE and/or have severs up there as many where an/or are still down. Even Lutron closed on Monday.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22538582
> 
> 
> I have two zone heating and am using the RA2 thermostats....



What "dring" said. It seems we just exhaustively went through a very similar situation. He is officially proclaimed RR2 HVAC expert!!


No, seriously, what dring said is your best solution. You could potentially do it using timeclock only (normal mode for primary setpoints) and adding a new timeclock mode(??inclusive only??) for guest setpoints, but I think if you are only going to have 2 different sets of setpoints his solution is best.


----------



## ksalno

Many thanks, dring and Paul. I'll do some reprogramming tonight. This is most helpful and just in time for heating season here in DC area!


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22544378
> 
> 
> The "Minimum Heat/Cool Setpoint Difference" can be adjusted for the HVAC Controller that depends on seeTemp wall controls, but I haven't yet found a way to do that with the TouchPro thermostats. For the HVAC Controller, that value (as well as many other parameters) is set under Essentials' "design" tab, by right-clicking on the HVAC Controller name and selecting "Advanced Settings". Unfortunately, Essentials does not have an Advanced Settings choice for the TouchPros. Some of the same kind of "advanced settings" can made via the Installer Setup menu on the TouchPro itself, but there doesn't seem to be one that controls the minimum heat/cool gap.



Fortunately, I have the seeTemp devices so I was able to access the advance settings as you suggested. Unfortunately, the minimum difference between heat and cool in the setting is 3 degrees, which I don't understand. That means if you set the heat for 72, the lowest you can set cooling is 75. I guess this is some kind of "green" thing because I can't think of any technical reason for this limit.


The one other issue i ran into is I used the phantom keys for programming the occupired and unoccurpied modes but I don't see the phantom keys show up anywhere on the Lutron iPad app. So I either have to program a real keypad key (don't have any spares) or use command line to access the phantom keys.


----------



## dring

Maybe the minimum 3-degree gap is to prevent frequent cycling between heating and cooling which might damage or wear out the HVAC equipment in some way? I'm no HVAC expert (despite Paul proclaiming me as one), so that's just a wild guess. Perhaps a workaround for you would be to program two "occupied" buttons (as well as the single "unoccupied" button): a "summer" button with setpoints 71/74 for that time of year when cooling is normally required, and a "winter" button with setpoints 72/75 for when heating is normally required.


There are two different techniques for creating phantom buttons in Essentials (though perhaps they are not both called "phantom" in official Lutron jargon):

use the "Phantom Button" slots available in the drop-down menu on the Main Repeater, _or_
add a new keypad under the "design" tab, program it under the "program" tab, and perform a transfer under the "transfer" tab _without "activating"_ the new keypad.


I had never tried either of those, but just assumed either technique would work for your purpose. In light of your posting, I just now tried both and found that only buttons defined using that second technique show up in the iPad app. I'm guessing you used the first technique.


To expand upon the second technique: Under the "design" tab, simply add a seeTouch keypad somewhere (you might choose to first create a virtual room called something like "Cyberspace", or just use an existing room). Choose whatever button layout makes sense for your usage. Give the new keypad a Device Name something like "Phantom Keypad", which will show up as its name in the iPad app. Then program your desired HVAC "scenes" into the buttons of the new keypad, as previously discussed. When you perform the Transfer, you will get a warning message about the new device not being activated, but just ignore that. The new, virtual keypad will then show up in your iPad app and perform its programmed functions when you press its virtual buttons.


One thing I didn't mention earlier is that I have some seeTemp wall controls associated with my TouchPro thermostats. Unlike with the other kind of HVAC Controller, the seeTemps are entirely optional with the TouchPros; I chose to install some so I could observe the temperature and manually adjust my setpoints from additional locations in my house. In my previous posting, I warned that changes of Timeclock mode can cause the iPad app to report incorrect setpoints, under some circumstances. _The same is true of the seeTemp wall controls!_ It took me a long time to discover that sometimes when both my iPad _and_ seeTemp were reporting the heat point to be 16C, the actual heat point was 21C, as confirmed by the display on the TouchPro. In fact, I only discovered it by noticing that my furnace was coming on at a time when the house temperature was way above the heat point being reported by the iPad and seeTemp. Since you have the other kind of HVAC Controller, which does not have its own display, you have no similar way to confirm the actual setpoints. It is possible that the seeTemps and/or the iPad app behave differently (i.e., correctly) with the kind of HVAC Controller you have, but it's definitely something you should watch out for.


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22501948
> 
> 
> ...one of the basic concerns from "dring" was the random set points that occurred, but were not in his programming. We still haven't figured this but is suggested that it was either a default setting or inadvertent use of the "Eco" or "Green" button. *---edit---*The random set points ended up being default value(s) the system sets and used when entering "Away" & "Suspend" mode...



Just to clarify what Paul said in his revised post #549: The system does not actually set and use default setpoints when changing Timeclock modes, but rather it just _appears_ to be doing so, because of false reporting of setpoints by seeTemp wall controls and the iPad app. See my last couple of posts for details.


----------



## ksalno

Dring, your second approach for setting up a phantom keypad worked for me thanks. I did take your suggestion and programmed 3 buttons - unoccupied, summer, and winter to get around the 3 degree split. I have only the seeTemp controls and don't get any false readings but I do notice that sometimes it takes a little while before the iPad app gets an accurate temp reading from the thermostat.


The other thing I noticed with the iPad app is there seems to be a bug in setting up the favorite controls from the home page. When I try to edit or add controls to this window the edit window is largely inoperable. I can select the first 3 or 4 rooms but the room list doesn't scroll. Other than that, all is good now. Thanks again for the help and advice.


----------



## dring

Great, glad it worked out.


Have you played around at all with any of the Timeclock modes, like Away or Suspend? It is only when changing between such modes that I would be suspicious of readings from your seeTemps, and only for seeTemps attached to HVAC Controllers that have been enabled under the Away-mode programming.


The Favorite Keypad and Favorite Adjustments editing in the iPad app seem to work OK for me, but my room list isn't long enough to require scrolling.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/540#post_22557006
> 
> 
> Great, glad it worked out.
> 
> Have you played around at all with any of the Timeclock modes, like Away or Suspend? It is only when changing between such modes that I would be suspicious of readings from your seeTemps, and only for seeTemps attached to HVAC Controllers that have been enabled under the Away-mode programming.
> 
> The Favorite Keypad and Favorite Adjustments editing in the iPad app seem to work OK for me, but my room list isn't long enough to require scrolling.



I have an Away mode but haven't assigned HVAC to it yet. I'll give that a try and see what happens. I think I have about 20 rooms and 100+ devices, so I definitely need scrolling.


----------



## spiwrx

I like your trick with the keypad programming (#2) dring. I never thought of trying that. It's my understanding the "phantom" buttons don't really exist anywhere in a physical (or now vitrual / ipad) sense. But rather to serve a purpose for certain integrations(usually 3rd party). I just thought I'd throw that out there because I think many people have the same assumption that you may be able to access them somewhere.


----------



## vitoasaro

I also have RadioRa2 dimmers installed and RadioRa2 Main Repeater waiting to go. I would like to program everything myself (I'm an IT CIO), but I don't have Lutron's "Inclusive" software, version 5.6.6. Could I provide my e-mail address and ask you to send it to me, or make a private FTP login available and have you upload it? I'm quite capable, and with this horrible economy I'd like to avoid paying for an [unnecessary] installer. Besides, I like to be able to adjust my configurations at will.


Regards,


Vito


----------



## schalliol

Vitoasro, I have ideas for you here. PM or email me at [email protected]


----------



## crisms98

I created an id on Lutron's website but only see "LP 601 - Knowledge Builders" on my learning plan. Based on what I read here, I should see "LP 620 - RadioRA® 2 BLAST-On Training” which I don't. I sent an email to Lutron but wanted to check here if the folks that have gone thorugh it knows whats going on. Thanks.


----------



## iang153

I'm glad to have found this forum - I'm buying and installing radiora2 components and have what I'm sure is a newbie easy question, but I've searched and can't seem to find an answer. For 3- and 4-way switches, do I need to replace each switch on the circuit with a radiora switch, or only one switch on the circuit in order to control it as part of a scene? I'm about to take off the switchplates on the existing switches to see if I need a radiora switch with a neutral wire...


Edit: I've just looked at the switches, and they have 4 wires including the ground, so I'm assuming it's a 'traveller' system (they're 3-way switches), so I can use non-neutral radiora dimmer switches. - I guess the remaining question is whether I need radiora switches for the other switches in each circuit (maybe just RD-RD)?


Sorry if this is an obvious question - just trying to start by doing this myself if I can - have bought the car visor transmitters and receiver and the main and auxilliary units and the 6BRL - am now about to buy a lot of dimmers 


Thanks so much

Ian


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Where you have 3 way dimmers, only the main dimmer communicates with the processor: for the other controls in the circuit, use the RR 2 accessory dimmer


----------



## iang153

Thanks so much - I'll assume the accessory dimmer is what they're calling the 'remote dimmer' - RD-RD - and also assume that the same goes for 3-way switches - one would need to be the 'remote switch' - RD-RS. So in general there cannot be a non-radiora2 switch on a circuit that's controlled by the radiora2 system...

Thanks again,

Ian


----------



## dring

Ian: Another option is to use radiora2 keypads in place of remote dimmers/switches, anywhere that might be useful.


----------



## iang153

Thanks dring .... seems as long as *every* switch on a circuit that's being controlled by radiora is some type of radiora switch, it should work - options are just what specific radiora2 switches I want to use...

I'm starting to understand this now 


Thanks again!


----------



## DMILANI

Hi.


I'm seeing a strange issue that's only occured a few times. Simple starter system in the kitchen mostly. Been working great for about 2 months, but then on two occassions, many or most of the RA2 dimmers in the kitchen would all of a sudden cycle off then on very quickly. The first day it did this maybe 5 times over a 1 to 2 hour stretch, then stopped completely. Then two weeks later (yesterday) the dimmer for the kitchen table only did this fast off/on cycle only once then stopped. Nobody touched the keypad or the dimmer buttons.


Now all of these lights are controlled by one Hybrid keypad. The problem did start "after" (maybe 2-3 days) after I was changing out the Hybrid button kit. I did also have to rewire the keypad since I was changing out another non-Lutron switch in the same box.


Is is possible there is an intermittent wiring issue in the box that could be causing this? Anyone see something like this before?


Another thing I forgot to menthion earlier, the first day this occurred, it was the day of Hurricane Sandy in Massachusetts. We has some heavy wind and rain, but the power never went out. We could have had some quick brown-outs that were not evident, but could this be a cause?


Thanks,

D


----------



## kokan

hi,

new to lutron, it was a request from few customers to install it, didn't pay much attention during training and bought two lutron honeywell touchpro hvac units to install. customers wanted to control hvac with iphone app so they can turn it on before arriving home. i took lutron app note manual to set up remote access and couldn't belive what lutron is proposing for remote access.


1 - you need to have VPN router, not vpn passthrough but real VPN router. hardly any customer has it, can get it for price range from $100 for old and crappy d-link to $300 for cisco.


you need either:


2a- static ip addres - (this must be a joke)...with ISP comcast you can have it only with business account and that is at least $20 more/month for customer.


or


2b- dynamic ip address (we all have it) BUT you need to use external service for DNS accounts and you have to pay for it yearly or monthly, not to lutron but to who knows who, owner of that website and have to explain to customer to keep account running...!?!?



while in home depot, guy from our company spotted hvac unit for $150, had iphone image on cover. installed it and works like a charm over iphone, turned off ISP modem to see what will happen when internet is down so ISP gives you new dynamic addres, turned modem on and worked great. all you need to do was to register to Honeywell webisite. no new router, no need for additional internet service, no monthly/yearly payments to some websites and explanations to customer why to keep account running on a website nobody ever heard of.


As i can see there are several knowledgeable RadioRa2 fans here and i would like to ask you;


1- Is there a way to control Lutron Honeywell TouchPRo over internet from outside LAN without going thru this painfull (stupid) steps?


2- Any other application that can be used to control this hvac unit(Lutron HoneyWell LR-HWLV-HVAC)?


Thanks!


----------



## dring

On Lutron's RadioRA 2 home page , it says VPN-free remote access will be available next month.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kokan*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22589862
> 
> 
> hi,
> 
> new to lutron, it was a request from few customers to install it, didn't pay much attention during training and bought two lutron honeywell touchpro hvac units to install. customers wanted to control hvac with iphone app so they can turn it on before arriving home. i took lutron app note manual to set up remote access and couldn't belive what lutron is proposing for remote access.
> 
> 1 - you need to have VPN router, not vpn passthrough but real VPN router. hardly any customer has it, can get it for price range from $100 for old and crappy d-link to $300 for cisco.
> 
> you need either:
> 
> 2a- static ip addres - (this must be a joke)...with ISP comcast you can have it only with business account and that is at least $20 more/month for customer.
> 
> or
> 
> 2b- dynamic ip address (we all have it) BUT you need to use external service for DNS accounts and you have to pay for it yearly or monthly, not to lutron but to who knows who, owner of that website and have to explain to customer to keep account running...!?!?
> 
> while in home depot, guy from our company spotted hvac unit for $150, had iphone image on cover. installed it and works like a charm over iphone, turned off ISP modem to see what will happen when internet is down so ISP gives you new dynamic addres, turned modem on and worked great. all you need to do was to register to Honeywell webisite. no new router, no need for additional internet service, no monthly/yearly payments to some websites and explanations to customer why to keep account running on a website nobody ever heard of.
> 
> As i can see there are several knowledgeable RadioRa2 fans here and i would like to ask you;
> 
> 1- Is there a way to control Lutron Honeywell TouchPRo over internet from outside LAN without going thru this painfull (stupid) steps?
> 
> 2- Any other application that can be used to control this hvac unit(Lutron HoneyWell LR-HWLV-HVAC)?
> 
> Thanks!



If you don't know anything about networking then being insulting about how it's all set up is not the way to get help from people.


It's either use an outside service (honeywell for the item above) or have a router configured to allow remote access. It's an either-or situation. There's nothing "stupid" about it. Think of it this way: voicemail. You either have your own answering machine or use a service. If you're using a service then you're stuck with whatever fees or reliability issues are involved. If it's 'free" then you're dependent on them keeping it running "for free". If you've got your own answering machine then you've got the usual hassles of how it won't pickup/record when you're already on the line. And then there's the security issue of retrieving the messages remotely. Ask all those celebrities how they felt about reporters guessing their remote access codes for their voicemail if you don't think security is important.


Lutron aims to sell to a higher-end audience. The kind of people likely to have some concerns about security. So expecting there to be a decently configured setup is not only reasonable, it'd be STUPID to expect otherwise.


----------



## kokan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22589944
> 
> 
> On Lutron's RadioRA 2 home page , it says VPN-free remote access will be available next month.



thanks a lot, great news.



"If you don't know anything about networking then being insulting about how it's all set up is not the way to get help from people.


It's either use an outside service (honeywell for the item above) or have a router configured to allow remote access. It's an either-or situation. There's nothing "stupid" about it. Think of it this way: voicemail. You either have your own answering machine or use a service. If you're using a service then you're stuck with whatever fees or reliability issues are involved. If it's 'free" then you're dependent on them keeping it running "for free". If you've got your own answering machine then you've got the usual hassles of how it won't pickup/record when you're already on the line. And then there's the security issue of retrieving the messages remotely. Ask all those celebrities how they felt about reporters guessing their remote access codes for their voicemail if you don't think security is important.


Lutron aims to sell to a higher-end audience. The kind of people likely to have some concerns about security. So expecting there to be a decently configured setup is not only reasonable, it'd be STUPID to expect otherwise."


it's a personal preference, i find it the way i find it. if you think it's great and you want your celebrity customers to be charged extra for all additional things, i don't have problem with that. btw, appreciate comments like "don't know anything about networking", etc.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kokan*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22591351
> 
> 
> it's a personal preference, i find it the way i find it. if you think it's great and you want your celebrity customers to be charged extra for all additional things, i don't have problem with that. btw, appreciate comments like "don't know anything about networking", etc.


Yes, of course, ignore the technical realities. Good luck with that.


----------



## spiwrx

Personally don't understand why you need to turn lights on(or off) in a home that you're not in from a remote location? Sure we could debate the value, but I've sold plenty of these systems and I've never been asked to set up a vpn to control it.


----------



## kokan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22595959
> 
> 
> Personally don't understand why you need to turn lights on(or off) in a home that you're not in from a remote location? Sure we could debate the value, but I've sold plenty of these systems and I've never been asked to set up a vpn to control it.



Lutron Honeywell Hvac unit is what customers want to control from outside. When they are on their way back they want to turn it on so home is worm when they arrive.


----------



## Neurorad

What's difficult about configuring a VPN?


Seriously, I don't know. I've never set one up. Used them for work, but haven't had to configure one.


My new router supports VPN - Cisco RV180 - but haven't tried a VPN yet. Actually just arrived this week, haven't plugged it in yet.


Cisco small business forums look outstanding, though, for support.


----------



## BradKas

As a networking novice I found it difficult to find compatibility from pptp vpn server to ios app when not using the Lutron app note specified router which is an old piece of junk. A DynDNS or similar account needs to be setup and managed/maintained by the end user, and there is a lot of added cost for a small system when needing to take ownership of the network. I have been successfully using port forwarding for remote access on our RR2 systems where it is required, but all this will be a thing of a past with the updated remote access coming this year, or early next.


----------



## kokan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22596372
> 
> 
> What's difficult about configuring a VPN?
> 
> Seriously, I don't know. I've never set one up. Used them for work, but haven't had to configure one.
> 
> My new router supports VPN - Cisco RV180 - but haven't tried a VPN yet. Actually just arrived this week, haven't plugged it in yet.
> 
> Cisco small business forums look outstanding, though, for support.



Lutron website has app note #231 where they go over it step by step and it can be done by someone who never used pc before. d-link router model in that manual is old and new models are few hunderd dollars. you want your customer to subscribe to dyn dns pay service as well. it is cool to control lights and hvac with one app but this doesn't make sense as honeywell has standalone hvac models with remote access and no need for upgrade to new vpn router or outside pay service. Downside is that you have to use 2 different apps instead of one. Lutron announced VPN free solution so let's hope it will work well, otherwise we won't offer this lutron hvac unit to customers.


----------



## iang153

Hybrid (RRD-H6BRL) vs. 6-button keypad (RRD-W6BRL)?


Hi again - I've looked everywhere and still cannot understand the difference between these two 6-button keypads. I'm doing a retrofit so can only replace existing dimmers. Will both control the switch they're replacing as well as scenes? I hope someone can briefly explain the advantage of the hybrid - I have no shades to control, only lights.


Thanks in advance for your help with this - ready now to start installing switches, repeater, etc...


Ian


----------



## dring

Ian: The hybrid is a combination of a dimmer and a keypad, so it can do both of the following:

serve as a dimmer for the load wired to its location
invoke mode or scene changes involving any RR2 dimmers, switches, hybrids, blinds, or HVAC controllers on the premises.


A (non-hybrid) keypad can only do (2).


----------



## iang153

ahh... that's very helpful - Thanks so much!


Ian


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kokan*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22596938
> 
> 
> Lutron website has app note #231 where they go over it step by step and it can be done by someone who never used pc before. d-link router model in that manual is old and new models are few hunderd dollars. you want your customer to subscribe to dyn dns pay service as well. it is cool to control lights and hvac with one app but this doesn't make sense as honeywell has standalone hvac models with remote access and no need for upgrade to new vpn router or outside pay service. Downside is that you have to use 2 different apps instead of one. Lutron announced VPN free solution so let's hope it will work well, otherwise we won't offer this lutron hvac unit to customers.



First off, there's no need to pay for a dynamic dns service if you don't want to. There are free ones that work decently.


Two, no internal device is going to work without EITHER a configured router allowing it OR an outside 3rd party service. This being where the thermostat itself is 'reaching out' to the service to poll for whatever commands might be pending for it. That or to trigger UPnP openings on the router (which would have to be configured for it) and contact the 3rd party service to update the directory. The remote client apps would then use that directory to determine what dynamic address is listening on UPnP ports. Which is, more or less, what a dynamic DNS service does.


So don't pretend Honeywell is doing something miraculously innovative here, they're not. They're opening up a network to remote connections to a 3rd party and likely not doing much to secure it. Not sure I'd go along with that without a thorough explanation of what they think they're doing and what they're doing to secure it.


----------



## Neurorad

The newest RA2 thermostat is made by Honeywell, not sure about the others.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kokan*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22596938
> 
> 
> Lutron website has app note #231 where they go over it step by step and it can be done by someone who never used pc before. d-link router model in that manual is old and new models are few hunderd dollars. you want your customer to subscribe to dyn dns pay service as well. it is cool to control lights and hvac with one app but this doesn't make sense as honeywell has standalone hvac models with remote access and no need for upgrade to new vpn router or outside pay service. Downside is that you have to use 2 different apps instead of one. Lutron announced VPN free solution so let's hope it will work well, otherwise we won't offer this lutron hvac unit to customers.




There are plenty of $20 Open-WRT or DD-WRT compatible routers out there that can run a vpn server and also plenty of free Dynamic DNS providers. Otherwise I think it is completely reasonable to be disappointed that a premium, industry-leading brand doesn't offer every feature. But at least it's coming soon.


----------



## DNA Home Audio

Is there a out of the box user name and password for a RRA2 main repeater?


----------



## DMILANI

User Name: lutron

Password: integration


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DNA Home Audio*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22618701
> 
> 
> Is there a out of the box user name and password for a RRA2 main repeater?


----------



## DNA Home Audio

Thank you. I am trying to get the Android app to work and it now says could not download system configuration. Contact system installer. What am I missing or doing wrong?


----------



## DMILANI

Do you have the Lutron software? I'm not sure if the Android app works with the default login. I created separate logins under the integration tab per the app note on using the Apple/Android app.


----------



## DMILANI

Also, under the Integration Settings/ID area, you need to "enable" integration for the dimmers/switches you want to control from the app.


----------



## DNA Home Audio

No I don't have access to the software yet. Just applied for it Wednesday. Sounds like I'll have to wait. Thank you for the info.


----------



## iang153

So, in installing several RRD-6D dimmers, I inadvertently touched a ground wire to the brass screw of a live dimmer and blew the switch (I know, should not have done it with the power still on). The lights in the switch no longer light up. Before I throw the switch away, thought I'd check to make sure there's not some internal circuit breaker that I can reset - I expect it's toast, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks,

Ian


----------



## markrubin

hate to just give you the standard line but...


in all my years of DIY Radio RA I always paid a licensed electrician electrician to do the 120 volt work:


you should ask an electrician to take it from here


----------



## iang153

I understand ... actually, I'm glad I did it myself, even with this dimmer. I swapped out about 30 switches - learned about the difference between the 6D and the 8SDV, between CFLs and incandenscents, about traveler wires and the blue screws on the dimmers, etc. I knew I should have turned off the power, but that was my laziness and confidence


----------



## schalliol

Lots of licensed electricians don't turn the power off either. I do it not only for safety but to avoid all the hassle of troubleshooting all the different legs


----------



## crisms98

I installed the devices myself and made it a point to turn the power off to prevent accidents. I could easily pay an electrician to do it but learning about wiring and the details of how the system works makes it more worthwhile.


I just need to download the Essential software next week to complete the install.


----------



## crisms98

Does anyone know what RR2 device can be used to control the light on a fan/light fixture? I tried RRD-6NA since the load was CFL but got flickering and the fan didn't turn on.


----------



## schalliol

The fan control products and software to control them are supposed to be released this month.


RRD-2ANF-xx four speed fan control is the part number I have heard will do it.


----------



## crisms98

The Lutron guy conducting the capstone webinar last Friday mentioned that it was coming out but the fan and light controls are separate devices requiring separate wiring. Wondering if anyone has used any existing control even just for lighting


----------



## intake

You will have to wire the light circuit of the fan directly to it's own circuit and control with the appropriate control from there.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iang153*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22676742
> 
> 
> So, in installing several RRD-6D dimmers, I inadvertently touched a ground wire to the brass screw of a live dimmer and blew the switch (I know, should not have done it with the power still on). The lights in the switch no longer light up. Before I throw the switch away, thought I'd check to make sure there's not some internal circuit breaker that I can reset - I expect it's toast, but thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ian



Just a reminder, the FASS (air-gap) pull-out switch(_or slide to the side on older dimmers_) on the front of the dimmer is for preventing this kind of damage. Every once in a while just the arc-ing that can occur from replacing a light bulb on a "hot" dimmer is enough to blow up the dimmer, another reason to use the air-gap switch.


In terms of the fan speed control, it is meant for typical paddle fans and may or may not be able to control your bath exhaust fan. Wasn't clear which you were trying to hook up to. Confirming it is a singular device, you will need a control for the dimmer and one for the light.


----------



## iang153

Paul, thanks for reminding me about the pull-out switch on the front of the dimmers - that's a really helpful suggestion - hoping I can remember that 

Ian


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22685409
> 
> 
> Just a reminder, the FASS (air-gap) pull-out switch(_or slide to the side on older dimmers_) on the front of the dimmer is for preventing this kind of damage. Every once in a while just the arc-ing that can occur from replacing a light bulb on a "hot" dimmer is enough to blow up the dimmer, another reason to use the air-gap switch.
> 
> In terms of the fan speed control, it is meant for typical paddle fans and may or may not be able to control your bath exhaust fan. Wasn't clear which you were trying to hook up to. Confirming it is a singular device, you will need a control for the dimmer and one for the light.



If you also have companion dimmers connected on the lighting circuit, do you only have to pull the FASS switch out on the main dimmer or also on the companion dimmers when changing a bulb?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/570#post_22589944
> 
> 
> On Lutron's RadioRA 2 home page , it says VPN-free remote access will be available next month.



I just noticed that it now says "February 2013" for that feature.


----------



## mystikjoe

Anyone install sivoia qs shades? Any reasonable places to order?


----------



## schalliol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystikjoe*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22735569
> 
> 
> Anyone install sivoia qs shades? Any reasonable places to order?


I have the same question. If enjoy a big one for an extra tall sliding glass door (really want a Lutron Kirbé) but I'm sure they're a fortune


----------



## kokan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22733086
> 
> 
> I just noticed that it now says "February 2013" for that feature.



per one of lutron radiora2 guys it will be paid service using alarm.com website


----------



## crisms98

I have a Synology Server and use the VPN service to connect my iPhone to RR2. Very easy to setup and have no issues whatsoever.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22686007
> 
> 
> If you also have companion dimmers connected on the lighting circuit, do you only have to pull the FASS switch out on the main dimmer or also on the companion dimmers when changing a bulb?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark


You would have to know through which it is being fed. Typically through the main, however best practice would be both or all if more than 2 devices.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22733086
> 
> 
> I just noticed that it now says "February 2013" for that feature.


Just a reminder, you can set up your own VPN if you are so inclined, Lutron is just trying to making easier for those that are not.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystikjoe*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22735569
> 
> 
> Anyone install sivoia qs shades? Any reasonable places to order?


Reminder, Lutron really pushes you to a "Shade Installer" for shades so the liability of sizing is on them. For the DIY guys that want help with shades and are willing to assume that risk I can help you. (_PM or preferably email me_)


On a side note I think their Cellular Serena Shades are very competitively priced and can be controlled on a QS, GE, RR2 or straight from a Pico remote.


----------



## Neurorad

What are some ways to control RA2 with IR?


----------



## BradKas

seeTouch keypads have an IR receiver on the back, or front in the case of the W5BRLIR.


GrafikEye QS has an IR receiver on the front and a euro jack for wired IR input on the rear.


Only the programming on the keypad can be controlled via IR.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22749620
> 
> 
> On a side note I think their Cellular Serena Shades are very competitively priced and can be controlled on a QS, GE, RR2 or straight from a Pico remote.



Serena can be integrated now? I read something that said it couldn't. Does it have 2-way feedback? What is the difference between Serena & QS Honeycomb?


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks, Brad. That covers direct inputs.


What devices could be used to convert IR to IP or 232, wired to the main controller, or networked?


----------



## BradKas

Probably going to need a 3rd party automation controller to accomplish that. IR wouldn't be so much converted as used to trigger IP or serial communication triggering button presses. This certainly isn't my area of expertise - maybe someone can chime in as to if such a device does exist other than what I propose.


----------



## Neurorad

Yeah, a 3rd party controller. Aside from the usual pro-only crop, I think a GC device may be an option.


----------



## BradKas

I believe GC converts IP to IR. Not sure if it could be used in reverse - I have not used any GC devices.


There would have to be a way to load the integration protocol into whatever device you propose and associate an output string with an input IR command. This would be severely overly complicated compared to sending commands directly to the repeater/processor via IP or RS-232. I agree this further cripples a DIY user on a tight budget, however there are many more DIY options incorporating IP and serial control these days.


----------



## Neurorad

In a GC device spec sheet, the IR jack is labelled input/output. I guess I'd have to play with one to figure it out.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22751987
> 
> 
> In a GC device spec sheet, the IR jack is labelled input/output. I guess I'd have to play with one to figure it out.



3 Independent selectable IR outputs or sensor inputs. While somewhat ambiguous, what that means is that you can connect one of the 3 sensors listed on this page: http://www.globalcache.com/products/other/ but you cannot use them to receive IR data.


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks for researching that, az. Looks like the GC-IRE and GC-RG1 could be used for the input, though doing it successfully is another story.


IR to the KP for scene selection looks like a reasonable option.


Edit - or, the GC-IRE is only for learning commands. Either way, IR extender to the KP looks simple enough.


----------



## DMILANI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600#post_22749620
> 
> 
> On a side note I think their Cellular Serena Shades are very competitively priced and can be controlled on a QS, GE, RR2 or straight from a Pico remote.



Hi Paul.


Yes, please elaborate. I just took the online Shade training class, and they were pretty clear that you cannot control the Serena shades via QS or RR2. Makes sense, since they would require a more expensive controller, and that is reflected in the price.


Please let us know what you meant by your statement.


Thanks,

D


----------



## spiwrx

Sorry for the delay guys, seems that my update notifications are not making it to my inbox.


Merely a name discrepancy, pricing is similair. The "Sivoia QS wireless Insulated honeycomb shades" are what I was referring to. Serena is basically the same thing with a different control type.


Also, Fan Speed controls should be starting to ship soon.


And, the IR connections on the back of the GE are supposed to some right off your IR Distribution in place of a bugeye. IR option(front) for the Keypads is supposedly an option that can be added when the engraving is done. Though I don't personally know anyone that has done it yet.


Also, if it wasn't stated I believe the IR on the GE is only for controlling the GE, not other RR2 components through the GE.


----------



## lalawyer

What's the best way to control ceiling fans with lights? I have 2 ceiling fans in a great room whose lights I use regularly. Would like at least the lights on rr2. Currently the light and fan control are in a single gang unit (split top and bottom).


----------



## vitoasaro

I have that exact same "split" single-gang control for a ceiling fan with lights. I believe it's also a Lutron unit as well, but not a Ra 2 control. I've seen that Lutron has released a Ra 2 single gang fan dimmer (the part number has an "F" in it), but I don't think there's a combined unit yet. If anyone has seen a Ra2 split unit I'd be interested to know the part number.


----------



## Neurorad

Would be nice to have a single gang option for combined lights and fan, but the obvious answer is to add another gang box to the existing.


----------



## Neurorad

Doesn't appear to be a reverse option for the RRD-2ANF fan speed control.


----------



## giomania

In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.


I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?


I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:


 



Thanks.


Mark


----------



## giomania

And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?

Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22878507
> 
> 
> And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?
> 
> Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22879661
> 
> 
> You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.



Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.


I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22880371
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.
> 
> 
> I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



You could probably add some weatherstripping to the door and seal the mounting points with silicone or you can build your own similar device in a waterproof outdoor box from Home Depot. You could also hook the relay to an RRD-8S in an outdoor housing (plastic, of course) instead of an appliance module. As far as wireless signal reliability, probably a try and see situation. You definitely don't want to put the RA2 device in a metal box.


----------



## Neurorad

IIRC, an Aux Repeater can be hardwired, if you can run a new outdoor category cable to the pool equipment location, and have trouble with that distance. I'm unsure of cold tolerance of the RA2 devices, but adding a plastic NEMA 4X enclosure to the pool equipment location may be an option for you.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22878370
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?



I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.



As far as using it for pool equipment & landscape lighting. I agree what with most of what has been commented on already. Unless you have an extreme climate or otherwise harsh conditions; I have had several customer's simply use switches (RRD-8ANS-..) with proper (& preferably) plastic weather resistant covers outside. Range should be good at 30', however you're just at the stated limit. I would personally hold off on the Aux. repeater, I think their stated range is very conservative, you have to have some pretty serious obstructions at 30' to have a range problem. The biggest one is always the metal box, if you can't replace it with plastic at least get a plastic cover on it.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22878370
> 
> 
> In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?
> 
> 
> I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22890097
> 
> 
> I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.



Thanks Paul.


Just to clarify, can the RRD-6NA be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED as noted in their documentation?


Mark


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22878507
> 
> 
> And for question number two: I am intrigued about controlling my pool equipment by turning it on and off via the main repeater timeclock. However, I am not exactly sure how to accomplish this with the timer I have, which is a Tork Model 1103. There is a wiring diagram in this attachment, but I am afraid I don't fully comprehend it. Could I incorporate an appliance switch into this somehow?
> 
> Tork Model 1103 24 Hr. Time Switch Manual.pdf 23k .pdf file
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22879661
> 
> 
> You could replace your Tork with an ELK 9200 or similar setup and then attach it to an appliance module.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22880371
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input! So then I would feed the wiring back through the box and place the appliance module inside, I presume? This particular model is not suitable for wet locations, according to their web site, and the pool equipment and controls are all outside. I checked on their web site, and did not see an outdoor model.
> 
> 
> I am also wondering for my appliance control over landscape lights (and possibly) pool equipment if the RR2 RF signal would reach. In my application, the appliance module would be in a metal box outside, approximately 30 feet from the main repeater. So the signal has to go through drywall, insulation, brick, and the metal box. Do you guys think that would work at that distance?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22880499
> 
> 
> You could probably add some weatherstripping to the door and seal the mounting points with silicone or you can build your own similar device in a waterproof outdoor box from Home Depot. You could also hook the relay to an RRD-8S in an outdoor housing (plastic, of course) instead of an appliance module. As far as wireless signal reliability, probably a try and see situation. You definitely don't want to put the RA2 device in a metal box.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22890097
> 
> 
> As far as using it for pool equipment & landscape lighting. I agree what with most of what has been commented on already. Unless you have an extreme climate or otherwise harsh conditions; I have had several customer's simply use switches (RRD-8ANS-..) with proper (& preferably) plastic weather resistant covers outside. Range should be good at 30', however you're just at the stated limit. I would personally hold off on the Aux. repeater, I think their stated range is very conservative, you have to have some pretty serious obstructions at 30' to have a range problem. The biggest one is always the metal box, if you can't replace it with plastic at least get a plastic cover on it.



I appreciate all the input. I live in Chicago, and I don't think that is considered an extreme climate. Anyway, plastic weather-resistant enclosures would be in order for both my possible applications (landscape lights and pool equipment). The Tork timer is actually mounted in a plastic box, so maybe I can remove the internals and use it. I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.


I guess I need to investigate it further.


Mark


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22890097
> 
> 
> I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.



It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22891142
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate all the input. I live in Chicago, and I don't think that is considered an extreme climate. Anyway, plastic weather-resistant enclosures would be in order for both my possible applications (landscape lights and pool equipment). The Tork timer is actually mounted in a plastic box, so maybe I can remove the internals and use it. I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.
> 
> 
> I guess I need to investigate it further.
> 
> 
> Mark



Since I have access to the conduit run (via the unfinished furnace room in basement) going to the landscape light transformer mounted outside the house, I performed a little invesigation last night, to determine if I had options. It turns out I can get to the wiring, as it passes through a junction box in the furnace room; please note this is metal conduit, as that is what they use in Chicago.


Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22891142
> 
> 
> I have to admit I don't fully understand if the timer is just a switch or if it is acting as a relay, even after looking at the wiring diagram in the instructions.
> 
> Mark



You would replace your Tork timer with a RR2 switch (acting as a relay or additional relay if larger than 8 amps), the actual timer is built into the main repeater and accessed through programming and/or the app.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22901146
> 
> 
> Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?
> 
> 
> Mark



Yes, seems like an ideal way to go. (FYI the DV (dual voltage) switch if more expensive and only needed for 277vac (commercial/industrial) or if you don't know if it's 120 or 277, use the RRD-8ANS instead)


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22892892
> 
> 
> It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.



The F6AN is probably cheaper online because people inadvertently ordered them, not knowing they were for 3-wire dimming ballast and/or control interfaces. The load on the F6AN would be max 6amp, depending on the ballast type, the number of dimming ballasts it could handle may vary.


----------



## spiwrx

Anyone that is interested, we have our first shipment of Fan Speed Controls available, pn RRD-2ANF-WH in stock and ready to ship. We only have a handful left, so email me if you're interested.


FYI, they went to a different LED indicator count, so replacement color kits will be unique as well, in other words it won't accept a dimmer color change kit, as the 2ANF has less LED's.


Lastly, as of yesterday there still was no available update for the software to program these, should be out soon, if not already!!!


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22939927
> 
> 
> Anyone that is interested, we have our first shipment of Fan Speed Controls available, pn RRD-2ANF-WH in stock and ready to ship. We only have a handful left, so email me if you're interested.
> 
> 
> FYI, they went to a different LED indicator count, so replacement color kits will be unique as well, in other words it won't accept a dimmer color change kit, as the 2ANF has less LED's.
> 
> 
> Lastly, as of yesterday there still was no available update for the software to program these, should be out soon, if not already!!!



Paul,


Is there a combination fan/light control for RR2, like they have for Maestro?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22939875
> 
> 
> You would replace your Tork timer with a RR2 switch (acting as a relay or additional relay if larger than 8 amps), the actual timer is built into the main repeater and accessed through programming and/or the app.



Thanks for the input, Paul.


I checked on the amperage, and the pump is 14.1 amps, and the heater doesn't specify, except to say to connect it to a 15-amp breaker, which it is. Anyway, each load (pump and heater) is greater than 8 amps, so what do you mean by using the RR2 switch as an additional relay?


Here are some pictures of the setup and the inside of the Tork switch. Given this is a mechanical transfer switch with each load greater than 8 amps, I am not seeing how this would work without an electronic transfer switch.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22943903
> 
> 
> Anyway, each load (pump and heater) is greater than 8 amps, so what do you mean by using the RR2 switch as an additional relay?



The pump is probably 240V so you have to use a 120V coil DPST relay like I stated earlier.


The heater is probably gas, but has an electric exhaust fan motor which could be 120V or 240V and presumably shares power with the pump coming from the timer so that it does not run when the pump is not on.


Simplest solution: remove the timer guts, put this relay ( http://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB-Insulation-Terminal-Mounting/dp/B005T73ZOW ) and the RA2 switch in the tork box since it looks plastic anyway and already has all the wiring necessary including the neutral. RA2 switch controls the relay coil. Relay contacts switch pump. Secure them to some improvised mounting plate.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22944455
> 
> 
> The pump is probably 240V so you have to use a 120V coil DPST relay like I stated earlier.
> 
> 
> The heater is probably gas, but has an electric exhaust fan motor which could be 120V or 240V and presumably shares power with the pump coming from the timer so that it does not run when the pump is not on.
> 
> 
> Simplest solution: remove the timer guts, put this relay ( http://www.amazon.com/Omron-G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB-Insulation-Terminal-Mounting/dp/B005T73ZOW ) and the RA2 switch in the tork box since it looks plastic anyway and already has all the wiring necessary including the neutral. RA2 switch controls the relay coil. Relay contacts switch pump. Secure them to some improvised mounting plate.



The pump is indeed 240V, and the heater is gas with an electric exhaust fan motor.


I was worried about the solution you mentioned before when I was talking about an appliance module, as that had a metal box and was ~$60. Now that I have provide more details, the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ-CB AC100/120 General Purpose Relay makes sense as the simplest solution. The benefits are that I get to re-use the plastic Tork box, and it is easily reversible if the RR2 switch (RRD-8ANS) does not work due to distance from the main repeater.


Thank you very much!


Mark


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22901146
> 
> 
> Since I have access to the conduit run (via the unfinished furnace room in basement) going to the landscape light transformer mounted outside the house, I performed a little invesigation last night, to determine if I had options. It turns out I can get to the wiring, as it passes through a junction box in the furnace room; please note this is metal conduit, as that is what they use in Chicago.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I was thinking I could mount a switch box next to the junction box, and install an 8S-DV switch to control the landscape light transformer (900W, IIRC), which would keep the RR2 device inside the house. Does this make sense?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



I have confirmed that my landscape light transformer is in fact 900W, so the RRD-8S-DV switch should work, as 120V x 8A = 960VA. Is my math correct? Also, I was wondering if any users are using an RR2 system in a house with metal switch boxes. I live in Chicago, and there are metal boxes and conduit throughout my house. I am just wondering if the metal switch box with a plastic cover plate would affect the radio signal range at all.


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## markrubin

^^^^


not sure that dimmer is rated for a transformer load?


Transformers have a big inrush when turned on


as far as boxes: I have never seen an issue with plastic or metal


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22878370
> 
> 
> In reading through the thread from the beginning, it has given me some ideas and raised a couple of questions; here is the first one.
> 
> 
> I was wondering if both the RRD-6NA and RRD-F6AN-DV dimmers can be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED, or only the RRD-6NA?
> 
> 
> I am a little confused due to some posts I saw in the thread, but here is the way it is listed in the RR2 Dimmer & Switch Product Specifications PDF:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22890097
> 
> 
> I believe the F6AN is only for controlling 3 wire dimming ballasts like their hi-lume and FDB type as well as LED drivers requiring 3-wire control. It's also used for controlling some dimming interfaces.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22891086
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Paul.
> 
> 
> Just to clarify, can the RRD-6NA be used for incandescent loads as well as CFL and LED as noted in their documentation?
> 
> 
> Mark





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22892892
> 
> 
> It is interesting though because those ballasts take a dimmed hot which presumably is just a control signal and should consume very minimal current but the dimmer is rated for up to 6A so how many ballasts would it take to get there? (Oh the spec says 60) Maybe the only difference is its ability to handle very low current loads? It's only interesting because they seem to be available more cheaply secondhand.



I apologize in advance for re-posting my questions, but I just want to make sure what I am seeing in the Lutron documentation is correct, as it is critical for my system BOM.


In addition to the clip posted above, I noticed this in the installation instructions for RR2 dimmers and switches:

 



This post from November, 2011 is the source of my confusion and request for clarification on this issue:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kevin gilmore*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/400_100#post_21171295
> 
> 
> new lutron software allows the firmware upgrade of mlv/elv dimmers to adaptive dimmers. Makes a big difference for difficult LED loads.



Is it simply the case that the 6NA, 10D, and 10ND dimmers all now support Incandescent, ELV, and MLV loads, and Lutron needs to update their documentation?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## giomania

I created this wiring diagram to replace my existing Tork switch with the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ relay and RR2 8ANS switch.


First image below: The exising Tork switch wiring diagram.


Second image below: The wiring diagram has the actual photo of my Tork switch wiring (the bottom picture) and incorporate the Omron G7L-2A-BUBJ relay (middle diagram) along with the RR2 8ANS switch (top diagram). Please note the connections for Brass and Silver in the existing RR2 8ANS switch diagram (top diagram) are redundant. Does this make sense?


Thanks.


Mark

 




Deleted the image, as it showed incorrect wiring methodology.


----------



## az1324

The relay coil is the load and it needs to be connected between the output of the switch and neutral. You don't need wire nuts just use the screw terminals on the relay they can take 2 wires each.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22957006
> 
> 
> The relay coil is the load and it needs to be connected between the output of the switch and neutral. You don't need wire nuts just use the screw terminals on the relay they can take 2 wires each.



Thanks for the input. I have modified my drawing, and assumed that switch output was on "0" and Neutral was on "1". Is it correct now?


Please note the lines crossing inside red ovals do not actually connect. I did not know how to put in the little half-circles to indicate when lines cross but do not actually connect.


Mark


----------



## az1324

Looks ok.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/400_100#post_21389129
> 
> 
> The 6NA dimmer is great for LED cans, but most of the LED strips we sell use dimmable MLV based drivers so a less expensive dimmer (regular 6D) could work there as long as you are well within it's minimum wattage. If you are close to 60watts or under on your strip definitely use the 6NA. And I mean 60 watts of load[LED] not a 60 watt transformer.



Paul,


I was thinking to incorporate LED strip lighting for under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I was looking at your web site, and I was just wondering how to incorporate RR2 with these two products:


Product Name: 12vdc RGB LED Ribbon (tape)

Product ID: LED-RGB


Product Name: 12vdc RGB Basic Control

Product ID: LED-RGB-WC


Since it states on the product page for the controller not to use a dimmable power supply, I was thinking that an appliance control module to turn it on and off is the only option.


Is that correct?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22960091
> 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> 
> I was thinking to incorporate LED strip lighting for under-cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I was looking at your web site, and I was just wondering how to incorporate RR2 with these two products:
> 
> 
> Product Name: 12vdc RGB LED Ribbon (tape)
> 
> Product ID: LED-RGB
> 
> 
> Product Name: 12vdc RGB Basic Control
> 
> Product ID: LED-RGB-WC
> 
> 
> Since it states on the product page for the controller not to use a dimmable power supply, I was thinking that an appliance control module to turn it on and off is the only option.
> 
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



I apologize I haven't been keeping up with this thread lately as we are implementing new enterprise software and a new website to come.


Yes. You can simply switch the LED RGB controller & power supply on & off as you are thinking. You have to be careful on how you want to use it though. If you are using any type of controller that is programmable you want to make sure it has retentive memory. Switching the way your are suggesting may wipe out any programmed settings. The RGB LED Controller requires a regulated power supply. The controller it self usually has some dimming function, but common "constant voltage" type dimmable LED transformers are simply rectified AC transformers and don't provide a true, regulated DC output. The LED Strips don't really care, however the RGB controller's require the true DC.


Lutron make a RGB controller for the Grafik Eye but I haven't heard of anyone using it for this yet, as it requires a DMX connection/controller and some extensive programming I believe.


You may want to consider a newer RGB LED as well. There is now an addressable version and specific controller so you can not only do color changes, but motion like chasing or waves. They even has some Apps to control from your iPhone or android.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/630#post_22939994
> 
> 
> Paul,
> 
> 
> Is there a combination fan/light control for RR2, like they have for Maestro?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



Sorry, have to use to separate controls, no combo's in RR2 yet. (remote mount & use keypad)


----------



## spiwrx

Giomania, looks like you have you timer control covered. I want to remind some of you about the 2 different RR2 switches.


A lot of people are suggesting the RRD-8S-DV for switching, which if fine, but unless you have no neutral connection or need to switch 277vac then use the RRD-8ANS. For your timer, it appears you already have a neutral there, so why spend the extra money for the RRD-8s-DV


RRD-8S-DV is for 2 wire switching 120vac or 277vac (more $$$)


RRD-8ANS is for switching 120vac only where there *is* a neutral connection available. (less $$$)


If you aren't sure the voltage or if there is a neutral the RRD-8S-DV is the safe choice.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22967291
> 
> 
> Giomania, looks like you have you timer control covered. I want to remind some of you about the 2 different RR2 switches.
> 
> 
> A lot of people are suggesting the RRD-8S-DV for switching, which if fine, but unless you have no neutral connection or need to switch 277vac then use the RRD-8ANS. For your timer, it appears you already have a neutral there, so why spend the extra money for the RRD-8s-DV
> 
> 
> RRD-8S-DV is for 2 wire switching 120vac or 277vac (more $$$)
> 
> 
> RRD-8ANS is for switching 120vac only where there *is* a neutral connection available. (less $$$)
> 
> 
> If you aren't sure the voltage or if there is a neutral the RRD-8S-DV is the safe choice.



Understood Paul. I was thinking I did not have a neutral in that junction box where the landscape light circuit wires pass through, but I may, as there are other circuits passing through. One of the things I need to do is to investigate where I do or do not have neutral wires in the boxes before I finalize my plans.


Oh, I think you missed one of my posts.







After alot of background material, I asked this question at the bottom of post number 655 above: Is it simply the case that the 6NA, 10D, and 10ND dimmers all now support Incandescent, ELV, and MLV loads, and Lutron needs to update their documentation?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## (-frogman-)




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22967709
> 
> 
> Understood Paul. I was thinking I did not have a neutral in that junction box where the landscape light circuit wires pass through, but I may, as there are other circuits passing through. One of the things I need to do is to investigate where I do or do not have neutral wires in the boxes before I finalize my plans.
> 
> 
> Oh, I think you missed one of my posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After alot of background material, I asked this question at the bottom of post number 655 above: *Is it simply the case that the 6NA, 10D, and 10ND dimmers all now support Incandescent, ELV, and MLV loads, and Lutron needs to update their documentation?*
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark




The documentation is correct, although the most recent revision of the instruction sheet has the new fan speed control included.


The 6NA is the only RadioRA 2 dimmer that is capable of reverse phase control necessary for dimming ELV loads in addition to incandescent and MLV.


The 10D and 10ND are symmetric forward phase control only for control of incandescent and MLV.


----------



## DMILANI

Just got a new Lutron TouchPro (thanks Paul) and just installed it it. Thermostat is working fine, but when controlling the set point with the Lutron iPhone app, I'm seeing sporadic behavior. 50% of the time, if I press the up or down set point buttons relatively quickly, the temperature setting changes at first, but then reverts back to the original set point. Sometimes just pressing the up or down button once doesn't even "take", meaning I have to press the button several times to make it react. Control directly on the thermostat itself works perfectly


Anyone else see this?


----------



## schalliol

I see the same thing on TouchPros. They need slow presses presumably because it is a two-way control and has some sort of feedback loop.


----------



## DMILANI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22982494
> 
> 
> I see the same thing on TouchPros. They need slow presses presumably because it is a two-way control and has some sort of feedback loop.




OK, thanks. So I didn't get a lemon, it's just the way it is? Anyone else see the same issue? Paul?


Presumably, they could re-write the iPhone app to "wait" a bit while the user is pressing the up/down arrows quickly until he stops. Then only send the set point command once at the final setting. Same way the dimmer sliders work, where the lights don't change level until after you take your finger off the slider. The way the TouchPro set point seems to be working now is that the iPhone/Main Repeater is continually sending the new set points for every button press (up or down) and the system can't keep up, and messages are getting lost.


-D


----------



## spiwrx

I only know the polling is slow in regards to communication with touchPro. Had another customer using the seeTouch w/ SeeTemp wall controls and they would also be slow to respond to changes.


----------



## DMILANI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22984975
> 
> 
> I only know the polling is slow in regards to communication with touchPro. Had another customer using the seeTouch w/ SeeTemp wall controls and they would also be slow to respond to changes.



Thanks Paul.


I assume you meant your other customer was using a TouchPro with a seeTemp wall control (you said a seeTouch)?


I'm surprised Lutron would let this out the door the way it is implemented. I understand Honeywell makes the guts of the thermostat, but the way the iPhone app works to change the setpoints is really bad. Next is to try and integrate with RTI to see if it's any better using my RTI controllers.


-D


----------



## crisms98

Has anyone used a Powr Savr occupancy sensor on their covered porch? The spec sheet says that its for indoor use only so was wondering if someone experimented with it. Anybody have any other suggestions if the occupancy sensor is not an option? Switch for the CFL lights is an RRD-8ANS. Thanks.


----------



## schalliol

6.0.0 is out, just FYI


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22982181
> 
> 
> Just got a new Lutron TouchPro (thanks Paul) and just installed it it. Thermostat is working fine, but when controlling the set point with the Lutron iPhone app, I'm seeing sporadic behavior. 50% of the time, if I press the up or down set point buttons relatively quickly, the temperature setting changes at first, but then reverts back to the original set point...



Yep, if you use the iPhone/iPad app or a seeTemp wall control to adjust the set-points of a TouchPro thermostat, the app or seeTemp will often fail to report the resulting new values immediately (sometimes not for minutes or hours later). I have observed that the requested adjustments do occur immediately and correctly, but are just not reflected immediately in the app or on the seeTemp. You can confirm this by looking at the setpoints displayed on the TouchPro device itself, and seeing that they differ from the setpoints being reported by the app or seeTemp.


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> 6.0.0 is out, just FYI



And the accompanying upgrade of the Lutron Home Control+ app for iPhone and iPad, version 5.0.0, is now available from the App Store.


Unfortunately:
The new version of the app crashes on startup on my iPhone 5.
The new version of the app seems to work OK on my 1st-generation iPad, but it no longer includes HVAC or Timeclock info on the "HomeGlance" page. Grrrr.


Note: I have not yet upgraded my RR2 system to the new 6.0.0 software; perhaps that would fix one or both of the above problems.

Update: I fixed both problems by completely deleting the app and its data from both devices, and then reinstalling the app and re-entering the system setup info (system name, user name, password).


----------



## schalliol

With iOS app 5.0, I too had to quit the app, but I didn't have to uninstall it. I went to home and double tapped the home button. Then I pressed and held the icon and then hit the -. It worked afterwards.


Strangely I have issues transferring 6.0.0. I get the select repeater window, which shows the repeater online yet even after selected and saved shows the transfer failing. Anyone else get this too?


----------



## DMILANI




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dring*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22987621
> 
> 
> Yep, if you use the iPhone/iPad app or a seeTemp wall control to adjust the set-points of a TouchPro thermostat, the app or seeTemp will often fail to report the resulting new values immediately (sometimes not for minutes or hours later). I have observed that the requested adjustments do occur immediately and correctly, but are just not reflected immediately in the app or on the seeTemp. You can confirm this by looking at the setpoints displayed on the TouchPro device itself, and seeing that they differ from the setpoints being reported by the app or seeTemp.



Hmm, my experience is different then. In my case, the set point on the TouchPro itself does not change in many cases, so if I'm pressing the up or down buttons quickly on the iPhone app, say from 64F to 68F, the iPhone display will at first increase to follow my presses, but will then revert back to 64F, and the TouchPro itself will remain at 64F (i.e., it never changed). I have to press up or down very slowly, like once per 5 seconds, to make the set point increase or decrease reliably on both the iPhone screen and TouchPro itself.


Is this normal?


-D


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22987799
> 
> 
> With iOS app 5.0, I too had to quit the app, but I didn't have to uninstall it. I went to home and double tapped the home button. Then I pressed and held the icon and then hit the -. It worked afterwards.



I tried that first, but it wasn't sufficient in my case.


(However, I have subsequently seen the second problem -- the absence of HVAC and Timeclock info from the HomeGlance page -- re-occur on the iPad. I cleared it up by switching to view one of the Demo systems, and then back to viewing my own system. So it is likely that the full uninstall-reinstall wasn't necessary to fix that particular problem.)


> Quote:
> Strangely I have issues transferring 6.0.0. I get the select repeater window, which shows the repeater online yet even after selected and saved shows the transfer failing. Anyone else get this too?



Having immediately encountered bugs with the new iDevice app, I thought I would wait and let someone else be the guinea pig for the new RR2 software.


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22987957
> 
> 
> Hmm, my experience is different then. In my case, the set point on the TouchPro itself does not change in many cases, so if I'm pressing the up or down buttons quickly on the iPhone app, say from 64F to 68F, the iPhone display will at first increase to follow my presses, but will then revert back to 64F, and the TouchPro itself will remain at 64F (i.e., it never changed). I have to press up or down very slowly, like once per 5 seconds, to make the set point increase or decrease reliably on both the iPhone screen and TouchPro itself.



Interesting. In the cases I had seen in the past, I wasn't using the up and down arrows, but rather pressing one of my programmed keypad buttons to change setpoints (e.g., an Away button that turns down the furnace), and then noticing that the change occurred correctly on the TouchPro but showed incorrect values in the app and on seeTemp controls for some length of time after the change.


I just now tried pressing the up and down arrows rapidly, and I do see the behavior you described, and as you implied, it is not consistent: sometimes rapid presses work correctly and sometimes not.


----------



## DMILANI

Great, so it's not just me 


My understanding is the Lutron protocol does not support a setpoint up/down command, but instead sends discrete temperature settings for each up or down press, i.e., set to 65, set to 66, set to 67, etc). It seems that when you press the up/down quickly, the TouchPro gets held up processing the first command, and subsequent commands get dropped on the floor. That's why I suggested Lutron could change the way they implement the up/down by "waiting" a bit to see if you are going to press the up/down subsequently and quickly, and then only send the final setpoint command. Even waiting 7-10 seconds wouldn't be a big deal - it's not like lighting where the scene needs to change instantly, this is temperature control that will take a while to get up to temp anyway.


Again, I'm very surprised Lutron let this out the door the way it works. It's almost unusable unless you are only changing the setpoint by one degree up or down.


-D


----------



## dring




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22987799
> 
> 
> Strangely I have issues transferring 6.0.0. I get the select repeater window, which shows the repeater online yet even after selected and saved shows the transfer failing.



Just a wild guess: one of the new features of 6.0.0 is:

Faster database transfers (system transfers what was changed instead of entire database).


Did you make any changes to your configuration? If not, maybe it won't do any transfer at all. (Yes, it ought to at least update the repeater with the new software even if you didn't change your configuration at all, but maybe that case wasn't implemented correctly.) You could test this by making a trivial change to your config, for example, changing the label text on one of your buttons.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *(-frogman-)*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22980249
> 
> 
> The documentation is correct, although the most recent revision of the instruction sheet has the new fan speed control included.
> 
> 
> The 6NA is the only RadioRA 2 dimmer that is capable of reverse phase control necessary for dimming ELV loads in addition to incandescent and MLV.
> 
> 
> The 10D and 10ND are symmetric forward phase control only for control of incandescent and MLV.



Thanks for the confirmation, frogman.


----------



## giomania

For my lamp controls, I was thinking to just use the Tabletop Lamp Dimmer (RRD-3LD-WH), even though I use CFL lights in the lamps. Assuming the CFL's are non-dimmable, I was thinking the bulbs work fine on full power from the dimmer, since at full power, it is not dimming? Does that make sense, or does anyone have any practical experience with this?


The reason I want to go this route, is for the future when I get dimmable CFL's or LED bulbs.


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## Neurorad

How is RA2 integrated with exterior motions, e.g. Optex? VCRX the most common route, if no other controller?


Any suggestions welcomed.


----------



## schalliol

dring, Your thought is a good one. I think in this case there is a larger issue because it asks me to select a repeater, only to find selecting it doesn't seem to do anything. I don't have any current reason for a change however, so I'm not broken up about it at the moment. Does everyone else see transfers operating efficiently?


Thanks!


----------



## DNA Home Audio

I am wanting to integrate my RA2 system in with my URC remote that I currently have URC/Lutron dimmers connected. I don't like the fact that I have two seperate systems all made by lutron. Is there a way I can use an IR transmitter to transmit to RA2 switches/dimmers? I do know they sell a switch that has an IR window on them and I am not sure where you would use this? Can anyone help with this?


----------



## kevin gilmore

much easier to upgrade the master and repeater firmware first.

otherwise it seems to get into a loop where the master has been

updated and then it can no longer find the repeater.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_23018538
> 
> 
> How is RA2 integrated with exterior motions, e.g. Optex? VCRX the most common route, if no other controller?
> 
> Any suggestions welcomed.



I'm likewise interested in answering this question. I'd like to put the spot light fixtures in places that won't really do a good job of typical motion sensing (too high up under the eaves). So I'd like to but separate sensors down closer to where they'd detect the motion. This isn't a high security situation, so I'm not terribly worried about potential abuse of it, more to just get reliable motion detecting.


I'm wondering how well a RA2 system can be configured to allow for being able to turn the spots on/off manually but also be able to set up an automation mode. As in, during a party ignore the motion sense and only react to on/off switch presses (or tablet control). But then also have an automatic mode where detected motion would turn them on, and eventually turn them back off again without manual intervention.


----------



## Neurorad

Someone at cocoontech said using an Elk or other controller for motion integration would be ideal, with RA2. Haven't researched it more, though.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_23035742
> 
> 
> Someone at cocoontech said using an Elk or other controller for motion integration would be ideal, with RA2. Haven't researched it more, though.


Right and that's sort of the thing I'm considering. At the same time I'd like to have an alarm system setup, with the option to use a monitoring service. As in, I want control and configuration control of the equipment FIRST, and monitoring ability second. Not something installed by a service and locked down by them. I don't need all the marketing 'peace of mind' claptrap, I get it, some folks buy into that. Nor do I want to spend $50/month. We don't need monitoring THAT bad.


----------



## crisms98

How about installing the RR2 occupancy sensor on an outdoor weatherproof housing? I would like a simple solution to turn on the patio lights at night when someone is at the door and not get overly complex with the system to do it.


----------



## wkearney99

Dont have a working setup yet, so i cant test that idea. But id sure love to kow if anyone else has experimented with that idea.


----------



## mystikjoe

i'm doing occupancy this week. i'm also integrating into my alarm with the visor control. i'll keep you posted on the sensor outdoors.


----------



## wkearney99

Yeah, i am most curious to know what would be the most reliable way to use external sensors with ra2. Either i feed them into a visor or an external stsem like an Elk. Since mode override is something im after then it seems smarter to run the inputs to an elk and then have that babysit the mode and timeouts. Vs running the inputs the the visor and still having to use an elk, or the like, to deal with modes and timeouts. Make sense?


----------



## mystikjoe

i'm setting up a scene that when I use my visor control to open my garage door that my lights in garage, laundry, and kitchen all come one. this is my entry path when I go grocery shopping. all with one single button press. pretty wild when you got your hands full. I want the outdoor sensor to light up lights when someone comes after my timer. my garage and porch lights are set to come on ten minutes after sunset and off at 11:00.


----------



## DNA Home Audio

Does anyone know how to get shades to work with RRA2? I added the pico control for my shade and transferred. It shows up on the app but does not work. Is there a step I missed?


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DNA Home Audio*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23060800
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to get shades to work with RRA2? I added the pico control for my shade and transferred. It shows up on the app but does not work. Is there a step I missed?



did you link the shades to the pico control in the RR2 software?


----------



## DNA Home Audio

No how do you do that?


----------



## mystikjoe

you can watch tutorials in your mylutron account to walk you through!


----------



## schalliol

Just make sure you have compatible shades, as the serena shades are not compatible with RR. While we're at it. Does anyone know a cheap place to get such shades?


----------



## Brian Garber

Sorry if this has been asked in this thread already (and for such a noob question), but I am seriously considering a RadioRA 2 and I was wondering if there were compatible digital media receivers or whole home audio systems available?


Thanks,

Brian


----------



## wkearney99

They're not the same thing. RA is all about lighting. Now, there are ways to have another system interface with a RA lighting plan. Control4, Crestron and others have ways to control the lighting from their remotes and panels.


Personally I prefer having switches on the wall that remain capable of being normal light switches. At least in places where guests will need them, or at the entry point for what might be a dark room. I like having at least one 'regular' wall switch and add keypads as desired. Otherwise you run into the problem of having to 'think' about how to use the lights! Sounds silly, but it really does matter for guests and others.


We'll have RA2 lighting, Russound whole-house audio and likely a Control4 setup in the theater.


----------



## mcgiro

I am looking at a Radio Ra 2 system for a major renovation. The plan I have from my contractor is to have several switches wired down near the main panel in the basement and controlling those from keypads on main floor. Some other switches are eliminated altogether. The idea is to replace gangs or 2 or 3 switches with just a single keypad. I've never lived with a lighting control system and don't know if I would 'miss' the ability to control individual loads from those locations. Also, once this is wired for RadioRa 2, there is no going back. I doubt we would hate the system, but you never know.


If this was a retrofit, all the switch locations (and wiring) would still be there. What is the best practice for wiring and keeping switches for a new build/major reno?


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcgiro*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23074527
> 
> 
> I am looking at a Radio Ra 2 system for a major renovation. The plan I have from my contractor is to have several switches wired down near the main panel in the basement and controlling those from keypads on main floor. Some other switches are eliminated altogether. The idea is to replace gangs or 2 or 3 switches with just a single keypad. I've never lived with a lighting control system and don't know if I would 'miss' the ability to control individual loads from those locations. Also, once this is wired for RadioRa 2, there is no going back. I doubt we would hate the system, but you never know.
> 
> 
> If this was a retrofit, all the switch locations (and wiring) would still be there. What is the best practice for wiring and keeping switches for a new build/major reno?



I've seen others recommend hiding the switches in nearby closets or other "out of sight" locations, so that they're still somewhat accessible and could be changed more easily if sometime in the future the whole thing needs to be replaced...


Jeff


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcgiro*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23074527
> 
> 
> I am looking at a Radio Ra 2 system for a major renovation. The plan I have from my contractor is to have several switches wired down near the main panel in the basement and controlling those from keypads on main floor. Some other switches are eliminated altogether. The idea is to replace gangs or 2 or 3 switches with just a single keypad. I've never lived with a lighting control system and don't know if I would 'miss' the ability to control individual loads from those locations. Also, once this is wired for RadioRa 2, there is no going back. I doubt we would hate the system, but you never know.
> 
> 
> If this was a retrofit, all the switch locations (and wiring) would still be there. What is the best practice for wiring and keeping switches for a new build/major reno?


Lutron's Radio RA2 system isn't designed for this, but it is sometimes done this way.


You should discuss the option of Lutron HomeWorks QS with a local Lutron QS dealer, or the more knowledgeable local Lutron sales director person. Perhaps your contractor's subcontractor is a Lutron QS dealer.


You may not have the funds to install QS, but you should be aware that Lutron, and other companies, offer fully centralized lighting control systems, and they've been installed in hundreds of thousands of homes. With a typical centralized lighting system, all the loads and keypads are home-run to 'dimming panels' in the wiring closet/mechanical room. Often, the centralized system is used in just a few zones, e.g. foyer, kitchen, LR, to reduce wall clutter, and sometimes it's the whole house.


I wish my house had some rooms with centralized lighting control, especially the foyer. I have a 4-gang bank of switches on each side of the front door.


Companies which offer residential centralized lighting control systems include Centralite, Vantage, Lutron, Crestron, and Savant/LiteTouch.


If aesthetics are very important, I'd say go with Lutron HW QS. http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/Components/HomeWorksQSArchitecturalseeTouchKeypad/Overview.aspx 


Edit- HW QS link


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23075316
> 
> 
> You may not have the funds to install QS


Who does? RA2 is already 'expensive' compared to independent dimmers (and I'm not making that an argument against RA2). But QS often ends up being more than double RA2, that's just crazy. Especially when there are 3rd party automation systems (Elk, etc) that can interface with a RA2 setup to add a bit of conditional programming. It's not going to be as 'elegant' as a QS system, but it's still considerably better than most other solutions. Better from a performance/reliability/price perspective.


----------



## wkearney99

And one other tip, hire a lighting consultant. Don't just go by what the contractor or electrician says. Get someone that knows lights and how to properly illuminate your kind of residential space. I'd argue it's better to make this person NOT affiliated with the contractor, electrician or even the lighting system supplier (which may or may not be the same as the electrician).


You want the space lit to serve YOUR needs, not what's cost-effective to the contractor or electrician, or profitable to the system supplier.


I've seen my share of terribly over-lit installations. Lots of time the dreaded "bank of too many switches" just isn't necessary, even without playing games with hidden dimmers and keypads.


----------



## Neurorad

Some people think buying a new car is crazy too - just buy one a year or 2 old and save $30K. Some people have the money and inclination to buy really nice stuff.


Lutron HW QS, I would propose, is the highest quality resi lighting control system. Some will pay big bucks to have it, and some won't.


It's certainly the most flexible platform, with options for hardwired and wireless control.


----------



## wkearney99

I hear ya, I'm not arguing against either way, just lamenting there's not a better in-between price-point for RA2-like setups with a little more conditional programming. Not all the added bling of the QS.


----------



## mcgiro

Thanks for the suggestions. RadioRa2 is actually a pretty good price fit for what we want to do. The Homeworks QS system is probably more than we want to spend and more than we need...it's not a massive sprawling house.


I know RadioRa2 was designed as a retrofit system, so that was what made me pause when considering specifically wiring to accommodate 'hiding' of switches. I know the goal in the plan I have given to me is reducing the gangs of switches, but the largest gang is 3 switches in 5 different locations, not exactly the biggest example of wall blight.


At this point, I'm considering two options: (1) Wiring the house 'standard' and keeping the ganged banks of switches - that would give full local control of all loads from at least one accessible place on the wall and allows us to 'go back' to a regular setup if we ever wanted to in the future. OR (2) Going ahead with the proposed plan to wire for RR2 - this would reduce the wall clutter, but result in switches hidden in local places like a pantry or closet.


Seems the trade-off is accessible, local control (and ability to revert to standard switches) vs reduced wall clutter at the keypad locations.


----------



## ksalno

We did a retrofit, so didn't really have the option of "hiding" the switches. The only place we did this was for the outdoor lighting zones, where the dimmer switches are located in the garage. The rest of the rooms we kept the existing 2/3 gang switches, sometimes replacing with the 6 button keypads in place of a dimmer. I find this has worked very well, especially for guests, cleaning crew, contractors, etc who are in the house but unfamiliar with the lighting control system. My concern with hidden switches is you will need to "train" everyone who comes into the home to do something simple like turn on a hall light.


We did RA2 for lighting and HVAC, combined with a Savant system for whole house A/V. RA2 is integrated with Savant but, quite frankly, I normally use the Lutron app on the iPad instead of the Savant for lighting control.


----------



## ksalno

Has anyone tried to upgrade to the new 6.0 software release? I downloaded and upgraded my database but when I try to transfer to my main repeater, I get an error message that the repeater is offline. However, the repeater is there. If I go into the Design tab, I can use the Find Main Repeater button and it will find the main repeater. I can also transfer to the main repeater from the 5.6.6 software, so it seems like a bug in 6.0. I discussed with my dealer and he said he had the same problem but worked around it by connecting his laptop directly to the main repeater and bypassing his LAN. He said after he completely the transfer from 6.0, he was able to then access the main repeater over his LAN again.


Has anyone else experienced this and is this the only work around?


----------



## crisms98

I upgraded my system last week and did not experience any problems. Try uninstalling 6.0 then a reboot of your PC before reinstalling it again.


----------



## DMILANI

Same here. Updated to 6.0 a few weeks ago, no issues at all.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23078982
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to upgrade to the new 6.0 software release? I downloaded and upgraded my database but when I try to transfer to my main repeater, I get an error message that the repeater is offline. However, the repeater is there. If I go into the Design tab, I can use the Find Main Repeater button and it will find the main repeater. I can also transfer to the main repeater from the 5.6.6 software, so it seems like a bug in 6.0. I discussed with my dealer and he said he had the same problem but worked around it by connecting his laptop directly to the main repeater and bypassing his LAN. He said after he completely the transfer from 6.0, he was able to then access the main repeater over his LAN again.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this and is this the only work around?



I read on other forums of similar issues


they recommend you force the download to the main *first* before any other devices (not exactly sure how this is done)


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23079766
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23078982
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to upgrade to the new 6.0 software release? I downloaded and upgraded my database but when I try to transfer to my main repeater, I get an error message that the repeater is offline. However, the repeater is there. If I go into the Design tab, I can use the Find Main Repeater button and it will find the main repeater. I can also transfer to the main repeater from the 5.6.6 software, so it seems like a bug in 6.0. I discussed with my dealer and he said he had the same problem but worked around it by connecting his laptop directly to the main repeater and bypassing his LAN. He said after he completely the transfer from 6.0, he was able to then access the main repeater over his LAN again.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this and is this the only work around?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read on other forums of similar issues
> 
> 
> they recommend you force the download to the main *first* before any other devices (not exactly sure how this is done)
Click to expand...


I just did the upgrade from 5.6.6 to 6.0


after it converted the old program to 6.0, I hit tools and clicked 'update main repeater firmware'


once this is complete it instructs you hit transfer and completed successfully


hope that helps


----------



## becker800

Does anyone know of a good RadioRA2 installer in the central PA area or are any of you certified? 20-25 min from Harrisburg

Ive got the parts at the house while for basement finishing and Wireless Thermostat as well for upstairs.


I'm an AVAD dealer and failed to realize you needed to be a certified installer to download the software and program the system.


I may possibly do the online installer course to get certified someday but I would prefer right now to just get the system up and running.

I'm not asking for the software, I'm just asking for a installer in the area to help with the programing. Ive just got the starter kit with 4 wall dimmers, main repeater, keypad, Wireless Thermostat


Thanks !


----------



## Neurorad

Subbing out some work, it seems to me, is pretty common. But, you're putting off the inevitable. Sign up, do the training. This would be a profitable, wise move.


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ksalno*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23078982
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to upgrade to the new 6.0 software release? I downloaded and upgraded my database but when I try to transfer to my main repeater, I get an error message that the repeater is offline. However, the repeater is there. If I go into the Design tab, I can use the Find Main Repeater button and it will find the main repeater. I can also transfer to the main repeater from the 5.6.6 software, so it seems like a bug in 6.0. I discussed with my dealer and he said he had the same problem but worked around it by connecting his laptop directly to the main repeater and bypassing his LAN. He said after he completely the transfer from 6.0, he was able to then access the main repeater over his LAN again.
> 
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this and is this the only work around?



Figured it out, I think. I put my laptop on the wired network and it did the firmware upgrade and transfer without problem. For some reason, it wouldn't do it over the wireless network. I had a similar problem in the early days where the Essentials software was using ip multicast to find the repeater and that was blocked by my Cisco wireless access points. I had to make a parameter change to enable it and wireless access to the main repeater has worked fine ever since. They must be doing some else the WAPs are blocking with the new 6.0 software.


Karl


----------



## dring

I was pleased to see that the 6.0.0 software finally supports icons as part of the button engraving. (Double-click on a keypad button while under the "program" tab to add an icon.)


I was displeased to see that the icons don't show up in the iPhone/iPad interface.


----------



## crisms98

I noticed one of my timeclock events that fire at sunset no longer works after upgrading to 6.0. My other events that are on fixed time are working fine. Anyone experiencing the same issue?


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22993754
> 
> 
> For my lamp controls, I was thinking to just use the Tabletop Lamp Dimmer (RRD-3LD-WH), even though I use CFL lights in the lamps. Assuming the CFL's are non-dimmable, I was thinking the bulbs work fine on full power from the dimmer, since at full power, it is not dimming? Does that make sense, or does anyone have any practical experience with this?
> 
> 
> The reason I want to go this route, is for the future when I get dimmable CFL's or LED bulbs.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



Anyone?


----------



## wkearney99

Stop using the non-dimmable CFLs (or CFLs in general, for that matter as they're crap). Don't force your controls to work with crappy bulbs. Just replace the bulbs with ones that are known to work with dimmers. The light temp (color) and output of LEDs, and their dimmability makes them a much better solution.


I've got several sets of table lamps using, iirc FEIT, LED bulbs from Costco on my RA table dimmers. They manage to dim properly, without noise, over their expected range with no trouble at all. I plan on replicating the same setup with them and new RA2 table dimmers in the new house when it's done this summer.


----------



## mystikjoe

ironic I just put in switches in laundry and garage area the cfl were flashing like strobes. I switched out for leds and all is good!


----------



## ksalno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crisms98*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/690#post_23114660
> 
> 
> I noticed one of my timeclock events that fire at sunset no longer works after upgrading to 6.0. My other events that are on fixed time are working fine. Anyone experiencing the same issue?



I'm not having any problem. I have both indoor and outdoor lights tied to both sunset and sunrise and they are all working fine. Did you check to make sure the main repeater picked up the correct date and time from your PC when you did the upgrade? Perhaps you want to do another transfer just to make sure the clock is set correctly in the main repeater.


Karl


----------



## dring

Sunset-timed actions continue to work fine for me too, after upgrading to 6.0.0.


----------



## crisms98

I ended up unplugging the repeater and doing another transfer. Not sure what happened but sunset event now works.


----------



## Neurorad

Are Sivoia QS Wireless the only Lutron shade option for RA2, without another controller?


----------



## danielrg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720_60#post_23191315
> 
> 
> Are Sivoia QS Wireless the only Lutron shade option for RA2, without another controller?



From the research I've done these are the only ones that will work natively with the system. You can get a contact closure controller that works with RA2 that opens you up to being able to control shades that use a contact switch - but not sure how easy it would be to get it calibrated right unless the shades auto-stop at top and bottom of their travel.


Anyone know of other shades (Lutron or other brands) that can integrate more than just the contact closure thing besides the Sivoia QS wireless? ($$$$)


----------



## schalliol

I'd enjoy seeing some cheaper shades/blinds too. In fact, I wish I could just have a RR2 remote adjustment of the 2" wood blinds I have all throughout my house. I rarely open them by raising them. The shade mfgr has a remote option that drops in for this purpose, but of course it doesn't compare with Lutron's. I wish Lutron would stick with the electronics/mechanics and just let installers out them in somehow.


----------



## wkearney99

Lutron's already making a pretty big change in the shades market with their wireless honeycombs. It may take a while for the next wave of competition to take place. I'd imagine it's been a pretty small market up until very recently. Thus not a lot of incentive or quantities-of-scale factors to consider. Automation does not fit for a wide audience. Could wireless shades be an automation element that appeals to a wider audience? Perhaps, especially since they don't require any hard-wire changes like dimmers or keypads.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danielrg*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/700_100#post_23317190
> 
> 
> From the research I've done these are the only ones that will work natively with the system. You can get a contact closure controller that works with RA2 that opens you up to being able to control shades that use a contact switch - but not sure how easy it would be to get it calibrated right unless the shades auto-stop at top and bottom of their travel.
> 
> 
> Anyone know of other shades (Lutron or other brands) that can integrate more than just the contact closure thing besides the Sivoia QS wireless? ($$$$)





Based on these posts from awhile back, it concurs with your assessment.


How much are those Sivoia QS wireless Insulated honeycomb shades anyway?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystikjoe*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22735569
> 
> 
> Anyone install sivoia qs shades? Any reasonable places to order?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22749620
> 
> 
> You would have to know through which it is being fed. Typically through the main, however best practice would be both or all if more than 2 devices.
> 
> Just a reminder, you can set up your own VPN if you are so inclined, Lutron is just trying to making easier for those that are not.
> 
> Reminder, Lutron really pushes you to a "Shade Installer" for shades so the liability of sizing is on them. For the DIY guys that want help with shades and are willing to assume that risk I can help you. (_PM or preferably email me_)
> 
> 
> On a side note I think their Cellular Serena Shades are very competitively priced and can be controlled on a QS, GE, RR2 or straight from a Pico remote.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMILANI*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22826723
> 
> 
> Hi Paul.
> 
> 
> Yes, please elaborate. I just took the online Shade training class, and they were pretty clear that you cannot control the Serena shades via QS or RR2. Makes sense, since they would require a more expensive controller, and that is reflected in the price.
> 
> 
> Please let us know what you meant by your statement.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> D





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/600_100#post_22834148
> 
> 
> Sorry for the delay guys, seems that my update notifications are not making it to my inbox.
> 
> 
> Merely a name discrepancy, pricing is similair. The "Sivoia QS wireless Insulated honeycomb shades" are what I was referring to. Serena is basically the same thing with a different control type.
> 
> 
> Also, Fan Speed controls should be starting to ship soon.
> 
> 
> And, the IR connections on the back of the GE are supposed to some right off your IR Distribution in place of a bugeye. IR option(front) for the Keypads is supposedly an option that can be added when the engraving is done. Though I don't personally know anyone that has done it yet.
> 
> 
> Also, if it wasn't stated I believe the IR on the GE is only for controlling the GE, not other RR2 components through the GE.


----------



## schalliol

I'll say it again, those Kirbés from Lutron look awesome. I agree with wkearney99, there is some good potential with blinds. My wife doesn't like the look f the honeycombs.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23318000
> 
> 
> I'd enjoy seeing some cheaper shades/blinds too. In fact, I wish I could just have a RR2 remote adjustment of the 2" wood blinds I have all throughout my house. I rarely open them by raising them. The shade mfgr has a remote option that drops in for this purpose, but of course it doesn't compare with Lutron's. I wish Lutron would stick with the electronics/mechanics and just let installers out them in somehow.



If you care to share the make of the blinds and specifics on controls from the shade mnf. we can probably find a way to control it with RR2, email me if you want some help figuring this out. We do similar things for skylights and 3rd party shades all the time using RR2 switch(s) or VCRX CCI's. paul (at) hankselectric (dot) net


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/660#post_22993754
> 
> 
> For my lamp controls, I was thinking to just use the Tabletop Lamp Dimmer (RRD-3LD-WH), even though I use CFL lights in the lamps. Assuming the CFL's are non-dimmable, I was thinking the bulbs work fine on full power from the dimmer, since at full power, it is not dimming? Does that make sense, or does anyone have any practical experience with this?
> 
> 
> The reason I want to go this route, is for the future when I get dimmable CFL's or LED bulbs.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark



Just to reiterate, don't do this. I've seen this be the death of typically just the lamp, but often the control as well. It is not true that at 100% the dimmer is not dimming. Whenever you install any (modern)dimmer, you loose a tiny bit of top end which normally doesn't perceive to any noticeable light loss, but does help energy conservation (yes, even at 100%). The dimmer is basically switching on and off very fast at 100% and is not as simple as a potentiometer or rheostat like people tend to believe. If it were it would be about 10x's the size and get very hot.


Yes it will work, but I wouldn't risk my $100 dollar dimmer over a $3 CFL, get a $1 lamp instead and realize you are doing some energy conservation just by using dimmers. With LED's there is too much crap on the market to make a conclusive statement, but if it's says it's dimmable (CFL as well) it's less a risk.


I'm all for energy conservation but thinking a few CFL's are going to do it is only a % of a drop in the bucket. Average lighting bills for residences are less than 15% of the total. (don't jump on me here guys I said average), the real savings is in your heating, insulation and appliances (& for a lot of you AV equipment). I encourage you to use LED, CFL, Induction, etc. as much as you can, but please be realistic, a few regular lamps in some fixtures is going to make a dent in your bill. (...stepping off soap box now...)


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23318613
> 
> 
> Lutron's already making a pretty big change in the shades market with their wireless honeycombs. It may take a while for the next wave of competition to take place. I'd imagine it's been a pretty small market up until very recently. Thus not a lot of incentive or quantities-of-scale factors to consider. Automation does not fit for a wide audience. Could wireless shades be an automation element that appeals to a wider audience? Perhaps, especially since they don't require any hard-wire changes like dimmers or keypads.



I agree, we sell a small % of shades compared to controls and systems(lighting), but with the price point of the cellular shades, this is growing too. They are not for everyone, but they do work well, and if the style suits you they are quality pieces at a competitive price (even from Lutron).


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/700_100#post_23352212
> 
> 
> Just to reiterate, don't do this. I've seen this be the death of typically just the lamp, but often the control as well. It is not true that at 100% the dimmer is not dimming. Whenever you install any (modern)dimmer, you loose a tiny bit of top end which normally doesn't perceive to any noticeable light loss, but does help energy conservation (yes, even at 100%). The dimmer is basically switching on and off very fast at 100% and is not as simple as a potentiometer or rheostat like people tend to believe. If it were it would be about 10x's the size and get very hot.
> 
> 
> Yes it will work, but I wouldn't risk my $100 dollar dimmer over a $3 CFL, get a $1 lamp instead and realize you are doing some energy conservation just by using dimmers. With LED's there is too much crap on the market to make a conclusive statement, but if it's says it's dimmable (CFL as well) it's less a risk.
> 
> 
> I'm all for energy conservation but thinking a few CFL's are going to do it is only a % of a drop in the bucket. Average lighting bills for residences are less than 15% of the total. (don't jump on me here guys I said average), the real savings is in your heating, insulation and appliances (& for a lot of you AV equipment). I encourage you to use LED, CFL, Induction, etc. as much as you can, but please be realistic, a few regular lamps in some fixtures is going to make a dent in your bill. (...stepping off soap box now...)



Ummm...Too Late!










Seriously, I sort of figured this out after I cooked the second CFL in as many weeks!










I replaced the CFL's with incadescents, and am very happy. For me, there is nothing like the dimmability of a regular old bub. For the areas where the lights are on at night-time or 14 hours during the day (kitchen cans), CFL's / LED's are fine. I just picked up 7 of the Home Depot Eco 575L for use with my CL dimmer in the kitchen, based on the tip in this thread.


Mark


----------



## spiwrx

I ordered a couple too many of the LR-HWLV-HVAC pm or preferably email me if you're interested I will take another 10% of the 2 units I have in stock for AVS members. EDIT - I'll extend that 10% offer to some(3) RRD-W3BRL-WH 3-button keypads I have overstocked as well. (remember these can be changed other button counts, types, and colors when engraving is done)


touchPro Thermostat (Honeywell style)


also Lutron has some 1 & 2 zone kits, for those of you trying to save a few dollars and want to expand or just get your feet wet:

These are intended more for single room manual programmed (no-repeater) starter sets you can build on:


1 Zone Kit: 6D Dimmer, Pico, Pico wallplate adapter and 1 screwless plate

2 Zone Kit: 2x 6D Dimmer, Pico, Pico wallplate adapter and 1 screwless plate

1 Zone Plug-In Kit: 3LD Lamp Dimmer, Pico, Pico wallplate adapter and 1 screwless plate

2 Zone Plug-In Kit: 2x 3LD lamp Dimmer, Pico, Pico wallplate adapter and 1 screwless plate


If any of you remember the RA Classic Millennium(13 years ago) packages, this is kind of the same idea.


List Price savings are $11.90 and $36.90 respectively for 1 & 2 zone. Not for everyone but another few bucks in the pocket if it fits the BOM.
_(if you don't plan on expanding on or to a full RR2 system this is probably not for you)_


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/700_100#post_23352234
> 
> 
> I agree, we sell a small % of shades compared to controls and systems(lighting), but with the price point of the cellular shades, this is growing too. They are not for everyone, but they do work well, and if the style suits you they are quality pieces at a competitive price (even from Lutron).



If it helps to sell the honeycomb shades to the "Minister of The Interior" in your household, perhaps a mult-tiered approach might make the sale?


You can use the under-mount (black-out) honeycombs that would stay raised unless you needed to darken the room. Then you use an over-mount shear or draperies (hardware options are many) that are visible all the time, but cosmetically acceptable.


Food for thought.


----------



## Ramias

So is there a DIY universal remote that I can make work with my RA2 lights? (and of course, stereo, projector etc)?


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ramias*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23361409
> 
> 
> So is there a DIY universal remote that I can make work with my RA2 lights? (and of course, stereo, projector etc)?



It's not quite that simple. Mainly because there's the possibility of hundreds of devices being involved. You can use a smart remote app like iRule and such. But I've not seen an IR remote that would be up to the task of doing it for a whole RA2 setup. But if you had a HTPC running with an IR sensor you could probably script it to recognize certain IR codes and translate those into what would end up being multiple network calls l to the RA2 network interface.


----------



## kokan

Anybody here was able to make Radio Ra2 remote access working using port forwarding instead of VPN and willing to share details?


Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

Trouble is port forwarding only gets you to one or two devices and then only on separate ports. So if you need to talk to moremthan one device that uses the same port then youre out of luck. A vpn does not have that problem. The there are protocol issues (tcp, udp, multicast, etc) which port forwarding wont accommodate.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kokan*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23476590
> 
> 
> Anybody here was able to make Radio Ra2 remote access working using port forwarding instead of VPN and willing to share details?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


 http://ra-volution.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=227 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23477062
> 
> 
> Trouble is port forwarding only gets you to one or two devices and then only on separate ports. So if you need to talk to moremthan one device that uses the same port then youre out of luck. A vpn does not have that problem. The there are protocol issues (tcp, udp, multicast, etc) which port forwarding wont accommodate.



General answer to a specific question.


----------



## Brian Garber

Hey all, I have a -6D controlling a MLV landscape lighting system. The final loads are LED, but the switch controls a transformer. Now I've noticed that sometimes the lights don't turn off when commanded. What happens is I'll press the off side of the button, and the status LEDs on the switch will show the normal "off" sequence where the LEDs turn on sequentially as it dims to off, but then they all blink, and then the switch turns back on.


I have to press the up or down sides several times before it actually stays off. This doesn't happen every time, but often enough that it's annoying. Anyone else experienced this with a dimmer?


Thanks,

Brian


----------



## az1324

You shouldn't be using a dimmer to control a transformer. Use an 8ANS.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Garber*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23529700
> 
> 
> Hey all, I have a -6D controlling a MLV landscape lighting system. The final loads are LED, but the switch controls a transformer. Now I've noticed that sometimes the lights don't turn off when commanded. What happens is I'll press the off side of the button, and the status LEDs on the switch will show the normal "off" sequence where the LEDs turn on sequentially as it dims to off, but then they all blink, and then the switch turns back on.
> 
> 
> I have to press the up or down sides several times before it actually stays off. This doesn't happen every time, but often enough that it's annoying. Anyone else experienced this with a dimmer?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brian



Brian, this is a common problem associated with to little load on the dimmer. If you probably just replace one of the lamps back to incandescent/halogen then it will probably clear your problem or switch to the 6NA dimmer. The Regular 6D is MLV rated and is fine for landscape transformers but its listed at something like a 60watt minimum load. (check back a few posts for a chart on minimum loads and corresponding part numbers) ~ _*Side Note:* we have found if you really need closer to 80watts for reliable use and depending on how far down you dim them, specifically with LED._


FYI, for everyone else this can sometimes also occur with cheap fluorescent ballast(s) on the RR2 switches.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23530834
> 
> 
> You shouldn't be using a dimmer to control a transformer. Use an 8ANS.


The 8ANS will also likely cure the problem but still has a 10watt min. There is no reason not to dim your landscape or any transformer, the 6D is designed for it assuming you are operating it withing it's spec's. That being said a good majority of landscape specific transformers include timers. Dimming the primary will mess that up. Disable or remove the timer and program timing in the software.


----------



## Neurorad

Is it possible to convert a 7-button Wall-mount Designer Keypad to a 5 button, without the IR lens, and/or without the raise/lower button?


----------



## az1324

Possibly if you use a faceplate from a QS keypad.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23661748
> 
> 
> Is it possible to convert a 7-button Wall-mount Designer Keypad to a 5 button, without the IR lens, and/or without the raise/lower button?



I have a 5 button faceplate from a QS: be glad to let you try it


Mark


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks. And thanks for the offer, Mark. That's very kind, but still in the planning stages at this point. I'm currently spec'ing my kitchen remodel, trying to figure out options down the road.


Crunch time, need to make decisions.


Is switching low power circuits really this difficult with RA2? Does every low watt circuit (under cabinet LED, in-cabinet xenon) need a PHPM, for switching?


Edit - is the answer 'dim them, with the phase adaptive dimmer'?


----------



## BradKas

Neuroad, dimming them with a 6NA is the answer, but the difficulty will be specifying correct fixtures and transformers/led drivers/led power supplies that will be compatible with the dimmer so as to eliminate flicker, step dimming etc. Do not expect your electrician to know this off hand, or even have the ability to figure this out. This isn't bashing electricians (I am one of them), but fixture specification for dimming compatibility is it's own animal.


Switching them is always an option, but when you get a few switched zones in a room it gets hard to make meaningful lighting scenes.


PM me if you have any specific questions.


Brad


----------



## Neurorad

Brad, thanks. Do you usually involve a lighting designer, or a local Lutron rep? How do you deal with a product spec'd by a kitchen designer that isn't on the Lutron-approved LED list?


----------



## Neurorad

Is the hybrid keypad 'phase adaptive'? Why not?


----------



## BradKas

HKP is not phase adaptive, however with the neutral connected it's minimum wattage is rated at 15W which may work well with forward phase dimmed LED products (depending on their quantity and rated wattage).


----------



## Neurorad

Bradkas, thanks for all your help.


----------



## BradKas

Anytime.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/720#post_23661748
> 
> 
> Is it possible to convert a 7-button Wall-mount Designer Keypad to a 5 button, without the IR lens, and/or without the raise/lower button?



This is a simple but good question, I get asked this question a lot. The current Radio Ra 2 keypad buttons kits are interchangeable with one another except for the hybrid and table top, they attach differently (but a lot of the following still applies).


Specifically you cannot get a 5-button without Raise/Lower. When you do the engraving you have to fill out this form: [http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/RadioRA_2_replacement_kit_engraving.pdf]http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/RadioRA_2_replacement_kit_engraving.pdf[/URL ]] and you can see/select your available options there.


So If you want to convert a 6 to a 3, an IR or not, etc... any of the available keypad configurations can be re-ordered and just the button packaged replaced to the base/back-end without removing it from the switch box_(only the switch plate needs to be removed)_. The back-end is the same for all, again with the exception of the Hybrid.


Likewise when ordering keypads don't stress on the button count. When you do the pre-paid engraving you can switch the button count and color. If you lost your engraving certificate or would like to purchase additional button kits they are fairly expensive for a small piece of plastic but most of the expense if due to the engraving.


Last, the same engraving options are true for Hybrid Keypads, it's just a different part number that only fits hybrids (no IR option on hybrids).


Link to links of all the RR2 engraving certificates:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/EngravingSheets.aspx


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23678572
> 
> 
> Specifically you cannot get a 5-button without Raise/Lower.



Though it is not an official RA2 part, it does exist. Unfortunate that the hybrid uses different design.


----------



## schalliol

If it exists, how could one buy it? Are you sure the one you mention isn't a HomeWorks product?


----------



## az1324

Yes it is technically a QS product (Homeworks, Sivoia). But the cover is just plastic (& metal) and the hardware for the keypads is the same. There is no reason you can't cover up two of the buttons on something configured as a 7 button keypad. The fact that there is no RA2 part number for it is probably just another selling point to push users to upgrade to Homeworks. As for ordering it, and getting it engraved, it seems like one could convince Lutron to send it with some sweet talking or you'd just have to pay the piper. Personally, I would not reduce available buttons and just find more scenes to add instead.


----------



## Neurorad

I've always wondered - can RA2 dimmers work for a QS system? Or Maestro RF for RA2? Or RA2 for Maestro RF?


I know, as az1324 has pointed out previously, that they're basically the same hardware.


----------



## schalliol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23685804
> 
> 
> I've always wondered - can RA2 dimmers work for a QS system? Or Maestro RF for RA2? Or RA2 for Maestro RF?
> 
> 
> I know, as az1324 has pointed out previously, that they're basically the same hardware.


RA2 Dimmers seem to only work for RA2 repeaters in my experience (though I haven't tested HomeWorks QS). Even if the Maestro RF dimmers are the same hardware, the software prevents them from working on the other systems. Picos (not MWF Picos) work for all Pico compatible products (RR2/MWF, etc.). The exceptions are the accessory dimmers/switches I mentioned, in which a standard non-RF maestro AS will work on the other systems.


----------



## ajeagle6921

Has anyone used RadioRA2 with the CREE CR6 lightbulbs with RadioRA2 that are not 2700k? Looking to have 4 in our kitchen that are 4000k. Thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

Hey, is the RA2 fan control out yet? Anyone used one?


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23691720
> 
> 
> RA2 Dimmers seem to only work for RA2 repeaters in my experience (though I haven't tested HomeWorks QS). Even if the Maestro RF dimmers are the same hardware, the software prevents them from working on the other systems. Picos (not MWF Picos) work for all Pico compatible products (RR2/MWF, etc.). The exceptions are the accessory dimmers/switches I mentioned, in which a standard non-RF maestro AS will work on the other systems.


Thank you.


----------



## Neurorad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23694260
> 
> 
> Hey, is the RA2 fan control out yet? Anyone used one?


I have no experience, but I'm a little surprised there is no Reverse option. Maybe I've just been spoiled by my current ceiling fan controller.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23678997
> 
> 
> Though it is not an official RA2 part, it does exist. Unfortunate that the hybrid uses different design.
> 
> ... Yes, it's their seeTouch series keypad design, used in many of their systems, QS, homeworks, RR1, Grafik 3000 etc... Possibly one would mount the same or custom order, but it's never been a sticking point to have 5 buttons only.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23684035
> 
> 
> If it exists, how could one buy it? Are you sure the one you mention isn't a HomeWorks product?
> 
> 
> 
> ... Available through QS, Grafik 3000 and RR1, etc.. not compatible with RR2, though maybe a Lutron Tech can tell you if the fitment is the same on the QS as RR2 and order repl. button kits that way.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23685804
> 
> 
> I've always wondered - can RA2 dimmers work for a QS system? Or Maestro RF for RA2? Or RA2 for Maestro RF? I know, as az1324 has pointed out previously, that they're basically the same hardware.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ...If manually programmed (up to 10 devices ~ 6zone qs = 6 devices) we have found the MRF2, QS GE and RR2 work fine. We often use RR2 keypads with MRF2 dimmers for single room applications. If computer programmed you can only mix the QS and RR2 (with a reminder the QS keypads will only operate the QS GE, instead use RR2 Keypads), to that note, unless there is an aesthetic or space reason you should just use Radio Radio dimmers and switches individually, also eliminates the need for QS modules.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23694260
> 
> 
> Hey, is the RA2 fan control out yet? Anyone used one?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ... I've sold a bunch with no issues or complaints (no news is good news??) I'll be putting one in my home in a week or so I'll report back...
Click to expand...


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23697327
> 
> 
> We often use RR2 keypads with MRF2 dimmers for single room applications.



So that works without a repeater? Pretty interesting.


----------



## schalliol

Are you sure you aren't talking about Picos? Those would work.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23701915
> 
> 
> Are you sure you aren't talking about Picos? Those would work.



I'm guessing you're referring to the last post, but yes we have used RR2 Keypads (not picos) manually programmed to MRF2 dimmers to give you more button options. It would be a lot more cost effective to use the picos though. The latter is not true, the software programming will never "see" the MRF2 dimmers.


----------



## spiwrx

A few RR2 updates if you weren't already aware:


Version 6.2 software is available
New Wallbox Power Module
New RF Softswitch Module
Flush mount for Temp. Sensor
& something I'm forgetting at the moment... (just remembered, wired Pico's . You can now order them wired in 24volt only (20-35vdc @ 20ma), so you will need a transformer somewhere to power them, or you might power them off a QS Grafik Eye)


The new software says it allows for database extractions for systems using 6.0 or higher. Which should be really cool if it works and you can easily convert old one.


The WPM, or Wallbox Power Module, is another homeworks hand-me-down. Basically a QS Grafik Eye with only one button and no bells & Whistles. If you are hiding components in an equipment closet or the like, this may be something to consider. Most of the same power / dimming specs as the QS. Fits 6 dimmers into a 4 gang footprint. Saves a little money over 6 individual devices.


The RF softswitch, will potentially be very cool if we can dim with it. Basically a wired relay module(vs. plug in). Not very many details at this time. Assuming you have room, you could potentially create the controlled receptacle you've always wanted or lighting circuit without an actual switch leg.


That's it for now. For me, I'm finally out of my old home and purchased a new home, so I get to upgrade from RR1 to RR2 finally. I think I will be using the iRuleatHome App/Equipment eventually for my modest home A/V requirements. I would love to hear any thoughts on those that have or are using it.


----------



## pschloes

Looking for suggestions:

I currently use a URC MSC-400 attached to my RA2 main repeater via RS-232 to integrate lighting with my remotes (MX-5000 and MX-980). This has worked well with being able to control lights/shades/AV/thermostats through these remotes by including RA2 phantom buttons in my macros.

What I'd like to do is be able to have the RA2 keypad button press trigger events (i.e. when I press "all off" on the RA2 keypad as I leave, this would shut down my AV system as well as all of my RA2 devices, or alternatively, I could create a "TV" RA2 keypad button that would trigger turning on the AV stuff in addition to setting all of my RA2 devices to a preset level). As I understand it, the MSC-400 is RS-232 output only, otherwise I could use it to sense a RA2 button press & use that to trigger a macro. Anyone know of a solution that wouldn't be cost prohibitive given the equipment I currently have?

Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

I'm planning on using an Elk to give me added programmability for my RA2 setup. Mainly to listen to several outdoor motion sensors, query the on/off 'state' of a particular RA2 keypad button (labeled 'Motion') and then control various spots accordidngly.


I would expect to do something similar for AV equipment, listen for or interrogate a given keypad button and send AV commands accordingly. I can definitely forsee value in using an 'All off' trigger for just that sort of thing.


Correct me otherwise, but I think the only way for a RA2 system to 'output' something would be with a line load (a wall switch, dimmer or in-line module) or via the garage door or window shade triggers.


So I don't see that as a way to do it with what you've already got, something with more programmability would probably have to be added. Maybe something low end like a raspberry pi or an arduino could be utilized? Just do the ethernet interrogation of the RA2 repeater, sit between it and the msc400 and handle the serial and ir data accordingly (perhaps via usb devices on the pi).


----------



## pschloes

Thanks wkearney99,


I think if I had something that could read the RS-232 messages from the main repeater following button presses I could use that to trigger URC macros....


----------



## Neurorad

I think the VCRX could be used as a trigger, but relatively pricey.


I think there are ways to send serial strings, as you suggest, but unsure how to get there.


The Lutron Powpak might be able to send a command, as a relay. Don't know much about that, but I hope to explore it soon.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23806679
> 
> 
> I think the VCRX could be used as a trigger, but relatively pricey.
> 
> 
> I think there are ways to send serial strings, as you suggest, but unsure how to get there.
> 
> 
> The Lutron Powpak might be able to send a command, as a relay. Don't know much about that, but I hope to explore it soon.



How does the Powpak integrate with RA2, if at all?


----------



## pschloes

I think the VCRX might work... I'm unfamiliar with it, but if you can activate a DC output with a regular keypad button press then you could use it to trigger the MSC-400. Alternatively, could use a RA2 appliance module & program it to the button and have the module power a DC transformer (seems like an inelegant solution though...).


----------



## Neurorad

I did some online digging. It appears that the Powpak/Tripak modules can only be used with QS, or Quantum, though they are ClearConnect.


I guess it's a distinguishing feature of QS over RA2.


I could swear I saw it referred to at some point, for integrating daylight control with RA2.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pschloes*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23808482
> 
> 
> Alternatively, could use a RA2 appliance module & program it to the button and have the module power a DC transformer (seems like an inelegant solution though...).


Heh, I'm picturing a Rube Goldberg machine using sledgehammers and bowling balls...


----------



## Neurorad

Someone has posted info on an upcomging RF Relay Module with Softswitch, on another forum:

https://forums.lutron.com/showthread.php/161-PowPak-TriPak?p=360#post360 


Model number LMJ-16R-DV-B. Product specs available for download in that Lutron forum.


----------



## Neurorad

That new RF Relay Module with Softswitch looks identical to one of the TriPak modules. I guess it's re-branded as RA2.


----------



## pschloes

Thanks neurorad, that looks worth waiting for.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pschloes*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/750#post_23805402
> 
> 
> Looking for suggestions:
> 
> I currently use a URC MSC-400 attached to my RA2 main repeater via RS-232 to integrate lighting with my remotes (MX-5000 and MX-980). This has worked well with being able to control lights/shades/AV/thermostats through these remotes by including RA2 phantom buttons in my macros.
> 
> What I'd like to do is be able to have the RA2 keypad button press trigger events (i.e. when I press "all off" on the RA2 keypad as I leave, this would shut down my AV system as well as all of my RA2 devices, or alternatively, I could create a "TV" RA2 keypad button that would trigger turning on the AV stuff in addition to setting all of my RA2 devices to a preset level). As I understand it, the MSC-400 is RS-232 output only, otherwise I could use it to sense a RA2 button press & use that to trigger a macro. Anyone know of a solution that wouldn't be cost prohibitive given the equipment I currently have?
> 
> Thanks!



Simplest solution would be RR2 Switch, VCRX, power-pack(PowrPak) or 3rd party current switch controlling a small transformer wired to the VS-1006 for the MSC400. I'm not an expert on the URC stuff but this should do the trick.


This is for the MRX-1 but is also used with MSC400, someone correct me if I'm wrong (page 10):
http://www.universalremote.com/resources/pdfs/MRX-1%20Installation%20Manual.pdf 


You could use our Current Switch (monitoring a lighting load) and Transformer wired to the VS-1006. Current Switch is 24.00, you probably have some sort of AC adapter laying around or can source for $10-$20 (I have them as well). + VS1006 & you have a solution for less than $100 it seems (_with no additional RR2 parts, the hard part is to get the wiring from a controlled light through the current switch_).


----------



## wkearney99

First day of the electrician putting in the switches and it's going smoothly. The only unknown was how to wire the 4-way lights. With the RD-RD units they apparently don't really 'switch' anything. Thus all they need to do is make sure to use the same traveler wire across all of them, and then splice the #3 of 4 with the traveler from both ends. That presented some coordination issues between the electricians as they weren't used to being as picky about the traveler wire colors.


The other hassle was having to sort of which loads went where when different types of switches were used. As in, needing to be specific about making sure the RRD-6NA was the one feeding the low voltage transformer, not the other ones on RRD-6D dimmers. A bit more time with the continuity tester than they typically prefer... But this was the main floor and had a lot of lighting. The others should be a lot simpler.


Best news is none of the magic smoke got out of any of the switches!


The downside was discovering they'd wired up all my outside floods as one 4-way, instead of each flood to it's own dimmer. But I can probably correct that later by putting some dimmers in the finished attic later and using the keypads instead. I'd specifically asked them to be separate, and yet they're not... Ah well, pretty trivial otherwise.


----------



## pschloes

Sorry for the dumb question, but what is a "current switch?"


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pschloes*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23816670
> 
> 
> Sorry for the dumb question, but what is a "current switch?"



Simply senses current on a single conductor (wire) and closes a switch when it senses current:
http://www.hankselectric.net/detail.aspx?ID=6368 


In this case, passing a single conductor from an associated light through the current loop will turn on a small transformer supplying the low voltage to the voltage sensing switch for the MSC400. You could lose the current switch all together if you simply switched the transformer along with the light(same switch leg) or used a magnetic type transformer as the VS-1006 can see a range of voltage (if dimmed_~ vs. switched_). [_~ sorry didn't think of this in last post]_


The current switch would make it possible for any number of lights to pass through the current coil so if any or all where on it would trigger without the loads being wired together (_all monitored loads need to be on the same phase or they will cancel each other_)


----------



## wkearney99

What does making an http browser connection into a RA2 repeater provide? Is there a web page for the devices programmed into it, like the ios & android apps?


if so, where are the login credentials configured? Because the telnet logins do NOT work.


----------



## az1324

I don't think there is any web interface. The only thing it is for is uploading/downloading the xml configuration file so that other controllers like the app can use it.


----------



## wkearney99

So is there a PC interface program, a la the smartphone apps? It'd be handy to have either a web page or small program like the smartphone apps.


And let me add, I'm just talking a simple interface directly with the repeater, not a full-on automation program. THOSE I'm familiar with, and I'll likely be wandering down that road once we've moved into the house. I was just asking whether there's a simple PC app like ones for the smartphones.


As for the smartphone apps, eh, they 'work' but they're not exactly 'elegant'. It's a bit annoying how they default to alphabetical ordering.


----------



## az1324

Not that I know of. It is intended to be integrated or used with the apps. In a pinch you could probably run the Android App inside BlueStacks.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23833556
> 
> 
> Not that I know of. It is intended to be integrated or used with the apps. In a pinch you could probably run the Android App inside BlueStacks.


Figured as much, just seemed like a natural idea. Especially given there's apps for phones.


----------



## lleo_

The apps are running locally on the device providing the interface. The only thing leaving the device are the commands through the telnet and status messages received back.

While not as convenient as a webpage, i.e. point and click, but in a pinch you could issue specific commands through telnet. It is also very informative to just open a telnet session to monitor the activity of the control.


----------



## wkearney99

I'll have more to post in the coming weeks, but I want to give a shout-out of huge thanks to Paul at Hanks Electric (spiwrx here on the forums). He's been an absolutely tremendous help in analyzing what I need. If you're looking for a RA2 supplier you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone else that does as good a job.


Meanwhile we're in the middle of moving into the new house.


My first tip is make sure your 'main light' into a room is on a paddle, not a keypad. It's a little fiddly using a keypad to get your best light into the room. Sure, you 'get used to it' eventually but nothing's as easy as just tapping a big paddle switch when the room's dark.


Second, put the dimmer part of a N-way lighting setup in the most visually desirable location. As in, where you'll see the little LEDs on the side. It helps when you're walking around in the dark. I've got one for the outside lighting that the electricians configured with the load up in the master bedroom. Down at the doors there's only companion switches (no LED to show state). This has made for a few late evening phone calls from an adjacent neighbor asking to have the floodlights turned off.


I've since set up a timed event that triggers one hour before dark that turns off all outside lights. This gets around the problem nicely.


Like I wrote, more to come as time allows. But meanwhile if you need RA2 stuff, talk to Paul.


----------



## trx250r87

I was able to log in using lutron/lutron. I don't see how anything can be done with this though.


Eric







> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23830471
> 
> 
> What does making an http browser connection into a RA2 repeater provide? Is there a web page for the devices programmed into it, like the ios & android apps?
> 
> 
> if so, where are the login credentials configured? Because the telnet logins do NOT work.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23895181
> 
> 
> I was able to log in using lutron/lutron. I don't see how anything can be done with this though.


Curious the /deviceIP mentions an ftp port but it doesn't respond to a connection to it.


Any time there's something connected to the network and it's not either fully documented or configurable it worries me. Security through obscurity is not the best recipe for control systems. Granted, there's only "so much" you're going to able to fit into an embedded system. But I'd still rather not see telnet, ftp or any other clear-text connections, when possible.


----------



## DMILANI

The telnet connection is used by third party control systems to control the RA2. I have a system by RTI controlling my RA2 main repeater over IP/telnet and it works great. The main repeater also supports RS-232, but the ethernet connection is more convenient.


----------



## wkearney99

Sure, I get why the connectivity is there. I do wonder which is 'better' to use ethernet or serial. From a consistency of connection standpoint it would seem like a serial connection would be more reliable. And certainly 'easier' from most 3rd party hardware setups as they usually have serial ports for the purpose. But with the advent of more recent stuff like arduinos and the like it seems like using a net connection offers a lot more versatility. But then you're at the mercy of available connections and network reliability. Whereas a direct serial connect is always there and dedicated to the purpose. I could see situations where a DOS attack could tie up enough connections to possibly make legit links fail.


----------



## Dean Roddey

It's not the most secure connection in the world. They could have done better, but it's probably good enough. It does require a login, so make sure you set a good password on it. It is a telnet connection, so all data is in the open, even the username/password I think. So you'd not want to use it much over a external connection, i.e. never port forward the connection and log directly into it remotely. Within the network it's probably safe enough. If you have someone inside your network you have plenty of other things to worry about. If the automation system is the only thing talking to the Lutron, it will almost never actually do the login, since it will only need to do it once upon connection. So someone would have to wait a long time to catch the username/password being sent, and as long as they don't have that, they can't get control over the Lutron system.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dean Roddey*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23896196
> 
> 
> It's not the most secure connection in the world. They could have done better, but it's probably good enough. It does require a login, so make sure you set a good password on it. It is a telnet connection, so all data is in the open, even the username/password I think. .


Agreed. It's the use of telnet and cleartext that's annoying. It's not "that hard" to have an ssh connection, on either end. And given the price-points of this gear it's really pretty inexcusable not to have it. The target audience for this stuff is also likely to be a target of annoying computer abuse, so better to have it at least start with using encrypted traffic, not just plain clear text.


There's a ton of stuff out there that's poorly secured, so it's not like they're alone in making this choice. But that doesn't make it a _good_ choice.


----------



## lleo_




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23894916
> 
> 
> Second, put the dimmer part of a N-way lighting setup in the most visually desirable location. As in, where you'll see the little LEDs on the side. It helps when you're walking around in the dark. I've got one for the outside lighting that the electricians configured with the load up in the master bedroom. Down at the doors there's only companion switches (no LED to show state).



I fully agree with you on the above, I actually reconfigured/rewired two multi-way for this reason, i.e. moving the master dimmer to my preferred location and two masters next to each other for visual appeal.

A nice trick I discovered late after having the system is that you can turn on a light with the dimmer rocker (both master and slave dimmers) instead the paddle, and this way it will be on its lowest dimming level, so in dark if you do not want to be blinded, just feel for the rocker and a single click on the top one will turn on the light at its lowest dimming level. Sometimes if you keep the default 1% level for lowest level for dimmers, you will have to push a few times on the raise to get the light on. This is a good indicator for the right LED dim levels when you get the lowest level on with a single push on the raise rocker.


----------



## wkearney99

Unfortunately we're already drywalled so moving the load/dimmer isn't practical (especially since the exterior walls are spray foamed). Lesson learned, experience shared...


I agreed on the dimmer as a turn on feature, I believe you can use the software to set the thresholds for them to avoid what you're talking about. I don't know if it's possible but I'm going to look into what can be done to reset the default dim levels based on times. Using something 3rd party, of course. It'll take a little while before we get all our dim level preferences figured out.


Which, along those lines, makes me a bit disappointed in my selection of master bath vanity fixtures. They're LED and dimmable but th lowest level a 6NA has been able to set is stlll WAY TOO BRIGHT. Fortunately there's an MR16 halogen in the nearby steam shower that acts as a perfect 'night light'. there's a button on the entry keypad for it. And I'm probably going to add either a timeclock event that brings it up automatically or a motion sensor.


Meanwhile I think know where I am going to put a VCRX... Near the steam shower. It can use an external momentary contact closure to start the cycle. It'd be great to have it come on via keypad or tablet control. Like right now, fire it up while I'm fixing the coffee, instead of schlepping all the way back to the control for it...


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23902251
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we're already drywalled so moving the load/dimmer isn't practical



If you look at the wiring diagram, you don't have to have the load connected to the main dimmer. If you are using a switch that requires a neutral it may not be possible to move boxes. Otherwise, it should be fine.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-225_English.pdf


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23903625
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23902251
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we're already drywalled so moving the load/dimmer isn't practical
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the wiring diagram, you don't have to have the load connected to the main dimmer. If you are using a switch that requires a neutral it may not be possible to move boxes. Otherwise, it should be fine.
Click to expand...


True, but apparently not if you/re not using a hybrid keypad as the dimmer. But even then you'd still have the problem of no light at the other locations. Which in my case would be a problem as I'd want all of them to show an indicator. Had the electrician actually wired it AS I REQUESTED this wouldn't be an issue. I'd have a dimmer at each location. But noooooo, yet another sub decided to "interpret" instead of just implemented what they're told AND was on the plans.


But that's not as bad as their assumption that when I asked them to MOVE the wiring for what had been a column but was now a pedestal. These are at the base of the stairs. The wire was coming down from the ceiling. There's a switch on one of them for the chandelier above. They didn't move the wire. No, they _removed_ the wire entirely and made the assumption they'd just put in a 'wireless switch' to handle it instead. Um, no. There's going to be $15k of switches installed and just some random 'wireless' one won't cut it. Thankfully there was a nearby outlet, so we just pulled a load from it to power a keypad.


I'm going to have to 'fine tune' a few device locations. Put a hybrid in place of a few dimmers, changed some dimmers from 6D to 6NA (or something better suited for some LEDs that are acting quirky on a 6D). But for the most part it's coming along nicely.


The real challenge will be in stabilizing the keypad uses enough to pull the trigger on getting them engraved. I'm seeing a few ways they might need to change.


I'm also planning on picking up a few occupancy sensors. I'm definitely starting to notice a few places that could potentially make good use of them. This can be difficult to do for an entirely new custom home. Sure, lots of design 'rules' might apply but you never quite know until you're actually occupying the space and using it day to day. Retrofitting an existing home might have it's share of hassles but at least there's already a body of knowledge as to how the occupants use the space. The upside is with the wireless sensors it should be trivially easy to try them in a few different locations to get their best placements.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23903625
> 
> 
> If you look at the wiring diagram, you don't have to have the load connected to the main dimmer. If you are using a switch that requires a neutral it may not be possible to move boxes. Otherwise, it should be fine.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-225_English.pdf



This is a great document, haven't seen this one before. A lot of good info on min/max & wiring. Also lists phase adaptive / power module requirements.


The point to be made, is footnote #4 from the document linked above. Basically any neutral connected device, switch, dimmer, hybrid keypad requires the main device to be on the load side of the 3 or 4 way. [4 Neutral wire Dimmers / Switches must be connected on the Load side of a multi-location installation.]


Of course Lutron broke their part number logic on the hybrid keypad, we could just say any device with and "N" in the it had a neutral connection(excluding prefix & color), then they added the Hybrid. So I don't think there are any other with "H" in RR2, so we can now say any "H" or "N" designations in the mid-part number require neutrals & load side multi-location connection/installation.


I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but it's not as crucial on a switch and/or dimmer as it may be to a Hybrid, as wkearney99 found out. The fix maybe putting keypads at either end, but that up's the ante a bit.


And yes wkearney99, I'm mid installation myself and watching how my kids are adjusting to a new home, I will be adding a few sensors as well. Non-system wall switches in their bathroom and RR2 battery sensors in the halls and possibly den.


----------



## wkearney99

The only non-RA switches I've got are the timers for the bathroom fans and the range hood. The latter due to the load it pulls (beast of a 48" range). If/when Lutron comes out with a RA2 countdown timer I'd be all over it.


----------



## spiwrx

The work around currently is an "Off-Delay" Scene (as described by Lutron Tech. Support). The screwy part is it requires 2 buttons on the keypad(s). One to turn that Scene "On" and another can be used to set an "Off" delay. So immediately after turning it "on" you should toggle the next scene "off". Maybe someone with some spare time could test this? It would be nice if this would be condensed to a single button feature, maybe in a future version. Not sure but this may be "inclusive" feature only. I assume Lutron would prefer you use a sensor for this as well, as the sensor has the timeout built in.


Set the "On" button for whatever you desire (no delay required, set up as normal _~ unless you want an On delay_)

Set the "Off" Button to 0% or Off (switches) & Set the desired time before the scene shuts off. Haven't tested it, but assume the fade time is in addition to the off delay.

 


We have also set timers to turn "off" every 2-3 hours (or your increment) particular scenes for this use. One downside is if someone turns it on, just before the hour expires, or have a catch all scene that turns everything off at say 2 a.m.. Obviously there are some downsides to these methods, but they may be fine for certain areas/scenes.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/780#post_23909592
> 
> 
> The latter due to the load it pulls (beast of a 48" range).



We use a fairly small 30amp ($6) relay connected to a 8ANS for most larger loads. The relay is about an inch square (+/-). Easily fit into a gang box by itself, or possibly behind a device in a very deep box.


----------



## wkearney99

You likely saw my posts over there as well. I'm not sure that solution is better than not using one at all. And it doesn't give any way to use local control to alter the delay period. Given that Lutron makes such a thing, it'd sure be nice to have one with RA2 integration.


I'd be more inclined to attempt something like a 3-way setup, but I'm not sure if one of their countdown timers could be made to work with one. If just for the sole purpose of being able to use 'All Off' functions for the room/area/floor/whole house. As in, someone left a fan running...


I'm having reasonable luck configuring the bottom-most button of 'entry area' keypads for an 'area all-off' function. With delays for the 'most obvious' exit path should the button be used. As in, kill the whole basement, but only turn off the steps going up after a 20 second delay. Same thing with the master suite and the whole house. The only downside is there's no time-of-day conditionals to allow for, say, bringing up the porch lighting when the whole house all-off gets used. But that's pretty trivial. And when I get around to adding something 3rd party I'll definitely look into doing that.


----------



## spiwrx

Yes, there are a lot of reasons we would all like some conditionals. Lutron has to leave something for the homeworks inclined! I haven't had much time to play with my Arduino since I bought it over a year ago, but I assume we could run some conditionals through that or a pi. I'm not that person right now, but looking forward to figuring it out eventually....


----------



## wkearney99

I'm leaning more toward an HAI or an Elk. Something designed for the purpose, intended to run unattended in a can 24x7x365.


For other stuff I'll be adding something PC-driven at some point (likely CQC). I've played around with some of the Pi and other devices and they're great fun. But for infrastructure stuff like lights I really want something purpose-built and reliable. You're just not getting that 'baked in' with PCs or other gizmos.


What's a bit disappointing about the RA2/Homeworks situation is there's no upgrade path other than rip-and-replace. And the jump to HW is a bit steep.


It's the same sort of thing with the other semi-automated Maestro stuff, the Serena shades and probably the new stuff sold through Staples. It's tough enough battle getting customers to buy into automation. But to then turn around and say, NOPE, no upgrade path, throw those away and buy all new ones... it's a bit unrealistic.


But that's a whole other thread...


----------



## schalliol

I'm definitely frustrated one can't get compatible shades for Serena like prices. Why should we have to pay more for everything? We've paid for the processor, that should be enough.


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_23914844
> 
> 
> I'm definitely frustrated one can't get compatible shades for Serena like prices. Why should we have to pay more for everything? We've paid for the processor, that should be enough.



The fact that the marketing and distribution model is based on dealers. I can only imagine the kind of order commitments staples had to sign to get them to open it up even this much. And of course they had to "cheapen" the appearance of the new Pico Dimmers instead of sticking with the classic Maestro design so as to not cause any ripples. There are only 2 dimmer models available, no switches or keypads, so it is more of a toe in the water at this point. But at least it is opening the door to a new distribution model.


Update: Revolv has a (potentially compatible) Lutron radio in it too. No announcements of device compatibility, but another step.


----------



## spiwrx

I haven't heard the details on what Staples will offer yet, but the difference between the Serena RF and what they are now calling Triathlon honeycomb Is a little over 30% but even at that it is still as cheap or cheaper than a lot of the competition that won't easily integrate or be controlled by RR2.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_23914844
> 
> 
> I'm definitely frustrated one can't get compatible shades for Serena like prices. Why should we have to pay more for everything? We've paid for the processor, that should be enough.



These have never been a poor man's toys. They were already a considerable price break from the previous technology. And a darn sight better performing too (quieter and more energy efficient). Still, let's hope for better pricing brought by economies of scale.


It's been the bane of most automation tech from the get-go. The challenge is getting over the hump of the very small high-end market. Where it's pretty dumb to 'leave money on the table'.


Me, I get the nagging feeling some of the new cheap stuff is going to make existing investments look a bit much, and soon. I'm definitely playing a wait-and-see on the Linksys/zonoff hub stuff. Could be an interesting development for low/mid-range control scenarios. But that probably deserves it's own separate thread.


----------



## spiwrx

On a side note, I just wanted to point out this thread is over 4 years old and still pretty active. For the most part it has been positive and constructive compared to some of the other RR2 threads and forums I've read. I'd like to think the goal here is to explain and help each other and I think to this point we have all done a good job. Congratulations and keep it up!


----------



## spiwrx

BTW, Thanks wkearney99. I had never heard of ELK until you mentioned it and have spent way too much time dreaming up how/wher to use it... (For other aspects of our business I often sell & program simple PLC's and theirs looks compelling)


Immediately I've been planning my own Pool/Spa controller based on a PLC and VCRX, I may be able to use the Elk product instead....


----------



## spiwrx

Bill, I stumbled on this today looking for something else. I believe you are on 2 Main repeaters and using Pico's so this may apply to you depending on what the Pico's are controlling.


From the Lutron resource site:

"The below link will open a document that outlines the procedure for changing the RF channel for one way transmitter devices. These procedures are necessary when using one way transmitting devices (Pico keypads, Radio Powr Savr Sensors, etc.) on both Main Repeaters in a two Main Repeater system."

http://resi.lutron.com/Portals/4/docs/appnotes/OWT%20Device%20Freq%20Change%20Procedure%20for%20Multi-Channel%20Systems%20E.pdf 


Email me if you have any trouble accessing the file.


----------



## wkearney99

Hmmm, looks interesting. I've only got one Pico configured and active, and it's been a little wonky. But I expect that has everything to do with the repeater not being effectively placed for RF coverage. I tried moving the 2nd repeater and the situation didn't improve. Now I know why, the Pico had been activated on the other one. I won't be able to test this for a few days, but I'll follow the PDF's instructions and see how it works out.


----------



## spiwrx

Breaking the subject flow here but just had 2 problems/solutions I though I'd share I had never come across yet or at least not with these variables: [Just sharing in case these could be helpful to any of you]

*Scenario "A": Separate "pool" house out of range.*

The simple & cheapest way to do this is to plan for it and connect the main repeater and auxiliary repeater via the mux link. A call I took the other day though, the Pool house was finished and not any easy way to get new wire in. It was suggested that since there is a WiFi router in the pool house we could connect 2 main repeaters (even though we don't need the extra devices) to allow the 2 main repeaters to communicate over Ethernet. This was confirmed via Lutron CS but not yet tested. [Also requires inclusive software/programming]

*Scenario "B": Feed back on garage door position.*

Homeowner wants to know if the garage is open or closed, there are a handful of ways to do this but the only way to do this with 100% certainty is wire additional limit switch(s) or sensors to the CCI inputs of the VCRX. Other ways would be to monitor button presses but with no direct feedback from the door you never would know 100% if the door made full travel or was returned due to obstacle or?? This unique situation in this problem was a finished garage already with a VCRX in place and no way to get new wires in the wall to add additional limit switches. My approach was to relocate the VCRX near the motor unit of the garage door and typically any limit switch and wiring can be attached to the rails of the garage door. One of the CCI(1) inputs of the VCRX could be wired back to a traditional garage door button (or use/program a Keypad instead) and the CCI(2) could be wired to a down limit switch (assuming this was the more important state of the garage door). The VCRX only has 2 inputs so unless we can use a keypad at the original button location we are limited to that. Alternately we could simply add and additional VCRX in the same manner for the sole purpose of monitoring those limit switches. The cost of the VCRX and a regular Keypad is almost the same, personally I think a keypad would look better and operate easier, as the hard buttons on the VCRX are rather small, but it wasn't said if there was power available for a keypad.


To monitor this you could look up the VCRX in the APP and check the CCI status light(s) on the VCRX or program them to operate a Scene.


----------



## Skippman

My installer just ordered me a Radio RA2 foundation kit. One of the issues I have is a ceiling fan in my living room. I'd love an all-in-one switch to replace the old Casablanca device that's there, but all I can find from Lutron is seperate fan controllers and dimmers. I don't think this will work as a direct replacement for the Casablanca device. Any suggestions?


----------



## wkearney99

Right, no RA2 combined dimmer/fan control. It's not terribly difficult to add another gang to a switchbox. There are retrofit kits to attach one alongside an existing box. If you've got 3-wires to the fan, that is. But if you've got a wireless receiver up in the canopy you're out of luck.


I have one place where I cannot add another position to the box. So I went with a hybrid keypad and a fan control. I plan on putting a dimmer in an adjacent location nearby (closet, most likely). I'll use one of the buttons on the hybrid to control it, along with the recessed cans on the hybrid's own dimmer.


I'd absolutely love to have a RA2 capable wireless canopy fan/light control. Like the Maestro unit. But, alas, no RA2 version of that exists... (yet?, soon?, never?)


----------



## Skippman

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. That's really an inelegeant solution to the problem. This is already in a 4 gang box and I don't want to make it any bigger. I'll probably end up going with a MA-LFQHW-WH for now to match the other Lutron switches and plan on replacing it later if/when Lutron comes up with a better solution.


----------



## spiwrx

Yes, this is indeed on everyone's want list for RR2. Keep asking, you never know.


You probably don't have the luxury but I would remote mount a dimmer & fanspeed control and place a keypad in the gang box. No it's not elegant but given what we have to work with, it's difficult either. Hopefully there is a nearby closet or attic space?


----------



## Skippman

Unfortunatly there's not. The nearest closet is about 20ft away and up a half flight of stairs.


The one saving grace is that each bedroom in this house has a double gang setup for their fans with a single switch for the fan and another for the light. That will make upgrading those later a snap. It's only in the living room and the kitchen that I really have this issue.


----------



## aharding

When to use the new RRD-6CL (CFL/LED) vs. the existing RRD-6NA (phase-adaptive dimmer)?


----------



## spiwrx

Thats a good question, I've been trying to get a good answer from Lutron, best so far is:
Low Price point compared to 6NA
Will work with only 1 "Approved" LED lamp/Module (Though it doesn't have as low a min. wattage as 6NA)
No Neutral


----------



## spiwrx

I always hated how the VCRX looked in my old garage, just screwed to the wall with a draped cord to an outlet & door-opener wires hanging below. Well in the new house I just had new garage doors installed so I thought I would flush mount it. The garage still needs to be finished, pegboard removed & painted, but this was the result on the rough wall:
 


It fit nicely in this sideways mounted TV box from Carlon ( SC300PR ), the mounting screws even lined up to the LV side plate mount behind it, though I spaced the VCRX off the back about 5/8".


I wanted to mount it just opposite, with the receptacle below, but there was a fire block right there and I really didn't want to go much higher. It's already roughly centered around 5' for good visibility of the small buttons. Later I will cut a filler panel to hide the open space.


----------



## Neurorad

Nice work, Paul. That box would look fine, mounted next to an existing ceiling outlet, in the garage.


Did you consider other TV boxes?


----------



## spiwrx

No, I was just bored waiting for the installers and had that one laying around for a future TV. It's my personal favorite for TV's. But I think it would work in most other boxes given roughly a 3gang position width. I know some others offer a cover that would hide it completely, I think the version from Arlington does, but I will actually be using it as a keypad as well.


The mounting holes line up to the wall plate holes in this box (_on the LV side of this Carlon box it has a 2G opening with device and plate mounting holes_), so you need a device or other mounting method, possibly for other boxes that only have device mounting (most regular boxes). I think you could easily use a duplex "clock" outlet if you just wanted to hide the transformer and mount the VCRX over it.


----------



## zuluwalker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_23952615
> 
> 
> Yes, this is indeed on everyone's want list for RR2. Keep asking, you never know.



+1


----------



## spiwrx

For any of you also using the Lutron Support forum they are monitoring and deleting posts. A reply to one of my posts concerning the lack of direct access to to VCRX from the Home Control + app was deleted early this morning.


My question basically was why wasn't the VCRX in the APP, and how to monitor the CCI's and operate the CCO's. What we have been doing and Lutrons official response was create a virtual keypad and load for each.


However in my email notification from the same post someone had replied trying the "Home Commander+" APP. It looks like it may only be for iOS right now, but it looks promising and only $18.99. It says it has WiFi and LTE support but doesn't go into much detail. Has anyone else tried this yet?? It also says it has an advanced off timer. Which if it works is something we have got a lot of requests for. I would assume it uses a countdown timer in the app to send and off command, so if your device is out of range after it is initiated I can only assume this won't work for anyone. But this is purely an assumption I haven't played with it yet....


Happy Holidays!!!


----------



## spiwrx

Ok, one last thing before we shut down for our Christmas Holiday. I Have 2ea Touch Pro Thermostats and 2ea of the 10 Button Table Top Keypads in Snow and Midnight in overstock I'm discounting until they are sold or we return in January. Go to my website and search AVS if you would like to order. Approx. 10% off my regular prices. (These will not ship until January 2nd) first come first serve!!!! All are new in box, full mnf. warranty, no gimmicks I just have too many in stock....


Edited 1/24/14

LMK if you are still interested I may still have one laying around...


----------



## markrubin

^^^


I just bought the app but there are no setup instructions or help menus:


I was able to log onto the Lutron processor by entering IP address and log in: it downloaded from the processor quickly: I can control shades and lights from it: it has an extensive list of favorites you can program


will play with it more in next few days


note this is listed as an iPhone app when you search for it...search Home Commander+


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24041983
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It fit nicely in this sideways mounted TV box from Carlon ( SC300PR ), the mounting screws even lined up to the LV side plate mount behind it, though I spaced the VCRX off the back about 5/8".



Nice. I've been debating how I was going to install a repeater inside a closet, now I know. The main wiring closet is a bit far from the driveway and Pico signals don't quite make it. So I'm figuring on moving my second repeater to a better location. There's power nearby so it should be easy to just run a line to that sort of box. Thanks for the picture!


----------



## schalliol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24113216
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> 
> I just bought the app but there are no setup instructions or help menus:
> 
> 
> I was able to log onto the Lutron processor by entering IP address and log in: it downloaded from the processor quickly: I can control shades and lights from it: it has an extensive list of favorites you can program
> 
> 
> will play with it more in next few days
> 
> 
> note this is listed as an iPhone app when you search for it...search Home Commander+


Interesting. How's the experience? Lutron's app over VPN works well for me and I'm doing a Roomie install soon.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24114920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24113216
> 
> 
> ^^^
> 
> 
> I just bought the app but there are no setup instructions or help menus:
> 
> 
> I was able to log onto the Lutron processor by entering IP address and log in: it downloaded from the processor quickly: I can control shades and lights from it: it has an extensive list of favorites you can program
> 
> 
> will play with it more in next few days
> 
> 
> note this is listed as an iPhone app when you search for it...search Home Commander+
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. How's the experience? Lutron's app over VPN works well for me and I'm doing a Roomie install soon.
Click to expand...


it is a basic program compared to Lutron's app: for example you store favorites under a menu called favorites 1-8 but you cannot rename the favorites


it appears it can only do one server at a time: it supports VPN


I think wait for updates they say are coming


----------



## user12345678

I am curious what everyone is looking for in an app and if what I have is marketable....


I wrote a web app almost 4 years ago for my Ra2 system: Interface has sliders for dimmers, buttons for switches/scenes, scene recorder that records the state of all the switches/ dimmers that can be altered and 'played back' , 2 way communication for all the dimmers/buttons/scenes. Server side interlocks (turn one light on/off and it turns another on/off), conditional logic for occupancy.


----------



## highnoon

Yes


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24115537
> 
> 
> I am curious what everyone is looking for in an app and if what I have is marketable....
> 
> 
> I wrote a web app almost 4 years ago for my Ra2 system: Interface has sliders for dimmers, buttons for switches/scenes, scene recorder that records the state of all the switches/ dimmers that can be altered and 'played back' , 2 way communication for all the dimmers/buttons/scenes. Server side interlocks (turn one light on/off and it turns another on/off), conditional logic for occupancy.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24115537
> 
> 
> I am curious what everyone is looking for in an app and if what I have is marketable....
> 
> 
> I wrote a web app almost 4 years ago for my Ra2 system: Interface has sliders for dimmers, buttons for switches/scenes, scene recorder that records the state of all the switches/ dimmers that can be altered and 'played back' , 2 way communication for all the dimmers/buttons/scenes. Server side interlocks (turn one light on/off and it turns another on/off), conditional logic for occupancy.


I think a few of the key things people are looking for are:

- Simplified VPN (for remote access)

- Countdown timer

- Calendar based time clock/events

- refined look or "skins" for app


Personally mine is slow/intermittent to connect, but I think it's my wifi setup.


----------



## user12345678

How many people would be interested if it costs around $750 (including the required hardware)??


----------



## wkearney99

Considering the price point of stuff like a Vera3 or known-quantities like an Elk or an HAI, it's tough to say whether or not a $750 price point is viable or not. Especially not without list of specs and capabilities.


----------



## user12345678

For $750, I could provide hardware loaded with the software. Plug it into your network, basic web based configuration page, and it would do everything listed so far (except the skins - but I could work on that) in a web interface that could be accessed by any javascript browser.


Elimination of the VPN requirement is also something I would have to work on, but is possible through a dedicated external website that I could provide.


Send me a PM if you have interest, questions, or additional requirements that I should consider...


----------



## az1324

So ... a $35 raspberry pi or a $20 pogoplug with minimal software for $750? I don't think so. $200 maybe.


----------



## ekkoville




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24134427
> 
> 
> So ... a $35 raspberry pi or a $20 pogoplug with minimal software for $750? I don't think so. $200 maybe.



Do all of those options still require the essentials software to do the initial programming. Or can it be done via the buttons like I'd seen mentioned before?


----------



## user12345678

I think AZ1324's solution is hypothetical....



EKKOVILLE, your question is the reason I (as a programmer) like forums! I've used it mainly as a scene designer that I would reference when updating Essentials. Currently, I record the status of ALL the devices and can play back any recorded scene (changing the setting to ALL the devices). So if the porch light was off when you recorded the scene for the kitchen, it is turned off when you play 'the kitchen' scene back... BUT I will create the option to include/exclude devices from a recorded scene. I'll also make sure that a unprogrammed button on a keypad could be used to trigger a recorded scene (I think it may be a main repeater configuration setting to report button presses that I have turned off).


'If' I am remembering the manual correctly, I think I can control keypad LED's. 'If' that is correct: I'm also going to create virtual LED's for the scene recorder. _I'm not sure if this annoys anyone else, but for example: I have all my 'normal' scenes at 80% output. If you bump one or all the lights up or down, the LED goes out for the scene. I would prefer that if the lights are at least at the minmum for the scene the LED stay illuminated. With the virtual LED's, I can make this a reality...._


----------



## ekkoville

Shaun5,


Does your proposed solution require programming via Essentials first? Or can one have the Lutron parts and make it all work with just your hardware/software solution?


Maybe this isn't the thread for these questions, sorry.


----------



## user12345678

I think you can activate devices outside of Essentials, so I guess in theory you could make keypad scenes without Essentials and make the system function as good (or better than) a 'traditionally' programmed system. I would want to test this before declaring it an actual solution.


----------



## wkearney99

I've not looked into it at all, but I'd wonder how the various kinds of 'sets' are programmed into the system. In the 2nd tier of the software (aka 'Inclusive') there are additional scene types. I'm guessing they're not programmable only via the software, but as an intrinsic part of a main repeater. It's just the software that puts a friendly UI around setting them up.


But it does raise an interesting question, can a 3rd party client speaking to the repeater can interact with them? Or do they need to be programmed into a button (virtual or otherwise)?


As for activation, yes, I believe it's possible to activate a device without the software. All you're doing is telling the repeater of the device. With the software you just put the repeater into activation mode, which in turn tells all devices to do likewise. Ones not already activated (associated is more like it) will blink. Upon clicking one of them the repeater tells the software what it just heard. You then have the choice to associate that activated device with a device in the project. Along the way the device's 'serial number' is brought into the software. Not all devices have their serial number on the outside, or if they do it's on a face you wouldn't see once it was installed in a wall box.


----------



## ekkoville

That's interesting as the programmer I talked to a few years ago said we or anyone can install the switches/dimmers, and then they would program it. I assume the repeater would have been installed and the switches or dimmers would act as any normal one would but without all the integration and scenes. I remember a lighting dealer installing it when it first came out and the guy was just going around and pushing the buttons on the front of the repeater itself to associate it with the dimmers. He was to new to it at the time to get into the software part of it.


----------



## wkearney99

RA1 was programmed that way. RA2 can be activated that way. And some of the button programming can be done that way. But once you get into complicated scenes and dimmer delays it's a whole lot more complicated to do it without the RA software. Like writing text messages using a binary bit editor, you 'could' do it with just ones and zeros but, ugh, it'd be tedious.


But they're wired just the same as any other kind of light switch. So 'anyone' that can do that can install the switches. There's a few situations where setting up 3-(and more)-way circuits requires a little planning, but nothing beyond what's typical. That and the instructions in the packaging, along with the 800 support number is clear enough to understand.


But even after 2 months of using the switches I'm still finding a few changes worth making. Mainly changing or adding keypads, but also rearranging which switches are where in a multi-gang box. That and I'm getting a better handle on what kind of scenes or other toggle groups we'll actually use. What you might think as being useful at the start doesn't always stay that way. For us it was a little difficult in that this was an entirely new custom-built home. So there wasn't anyone's experience to go on for setting up the lighting. Sure, a lot of fundamental rules apply, and we had consulting help for lighting. But along the way you develop certain 'use patterns' that aren't known at the beginning.


----------



## gdfein

Hi all. Curious where y'all buy RadioRA 2 switches, dimmers, fan controls. I'm working on using irule and want automate some lights and fans.


----------



## Gooch707


I can't post the link, but check out eBay.


----------



## wkearney99

The party line response would be to check Lutron's website for a reseller near you. With higher-end products like this it's typical for the vendor to want to move products through an authorized reseller channel. There's some sense in that thinking, but it's not necessarily right for everyone.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gdfein*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24152297
> 
> 
> Hi all. Curious where y'all buy RadioRA 2 switches, dimmers, fan controls. I'm working on using irule and want automate some lights and fans.



Yeah, find a local authorized dealer, or contact Hank's Electric Supply. You'll see Paul's posts all over this thread (just go back a page!).


----------



## ekkoville

Question here: I thought I'd read one time that the Ra2 dimmer or switch had IR capability in the switch or dimmer so as to use a hard button IR remote if needed. Is that true?


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ekkoville*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24155275
> 
> 
> Question here: I thought I'd read one time that the Ra2 dimmer or switch had IR capability in the switch or dimmer so as to use a hard button IR remote if needed. Is that true?


No, not the RA switches. Some Maestro (non-RF) dimmers have had that feature. I believe there was also a Grafik-Eye controller that also supported IR, but can't say for certain. There was a RA1 IR interface, but that wasn't a pickup for the switches.


----------



## BradKas

RadioRa 2 keypads have an IR receiver on the back for control of the local buttons on that keypad (and their programming).


Info can be found in the keypad spec sheet: http://resi.lutron.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=S9KjpWSOCrw%3d&tabid=584&mid=1450


----------



## schalliol

Actually, you can have a keypad button set with IR on it and access functions. See here: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-221b_20100518.pdf


----------



## aharding

Is there a single button keypad that looks like a switch? I want to install a remote switch in a location that does not have wires going back to the main switch. However, I can tap power, neutral and ground. I could install a three button keypad but I only need one button and I would like for it to have a light on it to match the other keypads. I don't like the RD-RS or RD-RD switches as you have to hard wire link them to the other switch and they don't light up.


----------



## wkearney99

I'm surprised to read of the keypads having IR input. Interesting. I was responding to the dimmers and switches not having IR, not the keypads. But I'm always ready to learn something new, thanks.


If you've got room for a double gang box it's great having that plain paddle and a keypad. I'm finding there are more situations where I'd want a keypad with multiple buttons than not. For guests and others it's VERY helpful to have a 'normal looking' paddle for the room's "main lighting".


I too miss that the companion devices lack the LED. I'd certainly prefer to have a light on them. It's especially awkward when the place you need the dimmer to be located (because of the load wiring) isn't the place you'd like to have the LED. I've got one setup that's VERY annoying to have this happen (down stairway double-gang where the dimmer is downstairs, not up on the 2-gang box where you'd see it most often). The other position has a dimmer for a surface fixture that will probably never get used (code required it, supposedly, but that's another story). So now people tend to hit the dimmer with the LED on it and get the wrong lighting. Damned annoying but a thing that's very hard to change given the way the framing is set up. The upside is I'll probably take out that dimmer and put in a hybrid to use the extra buttons for shade controls.


Not sure of too many situations where I'd want to cut down on the number of buttons, at least not unless I had really had a chance to think it through. Stuff like the dual-group W1RLD and W2RLD could definitely be interesting in areas where guests would be using them. The raise/lower functionality on multi-button keypads is one of those things that only starts making sense once you've used the keypads a number of times. The dual-group hybrid keypad H2RLD (has it's own dimmer) and a 3LD table dimmer might come in handy for our guest bedroom setup. If just to make it seem more obvious how things work. But I'm still mulling over just how to best set that one up...


The lack of a multi-button Pico sort of device is a bit frustrating. I've got several situations where I'd very much like to have a Pico on a pedestal but need more buttons. The tabletop dimmers are much larger, both in size AND price. They just don't look as attractive as the slim Pico when stuck on the weighted pedestal mount.


----------



## schalliol

I agree a pico keypad would be awesome. They certainly could make one since it's just a signal.


----------



## ekkoville

Just got an email from Lutron saying that a foundation package is no longer needed to gain access to software. Just complete training and you're in. Seems to be better, you still need the pieces though.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ekkoville*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24210069
> 
> 
> Just got an email from Lutron saying that a foundation package is no longer needed to gain access to software. Just complete training and you're in. Seems to be better, you still need the pieces though.



That's even better than what they told me! I had attended the BlastOn "live webinar" training, which they said waived that requirement. Getting rid of it altogether is a good idea. It was really an unnecessary complication and check for them. If what they wanted to accomplish was ensure folks with the software access had the training - whether or not you purchased the gear or were "taking over" an install is really unimportant.


----------



## ekkoville




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24210172
> 
> 
> That's even better than what they told me! I had attended the BlastOn "live webinar" training, which they said waived that requirement. Getting rid of it altogether is a good idea. It was really an unnecessary complication and check for them. If what they wanted to accomplish was ensure folks with the software access had the training - whether or not you purchased the gear or were "taking over" an install is really unimportant.



Yeah I agree. You still need the correct parts to make it work correctly. Not sure why a package was necessary. Maybe someone wants to gradually gat things going, no need for pieces that don't fit that approach.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ekkoville*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24210212
> 
> 
> Yeah I agree. You still need the correct parts to make it work correctly. Not sure why a package was necessary. Maybe someone wants to gradually gat things going, no need for pieces that don't fit that approach.



Well, the requirement was a starter kit "or equivalent $$$ worth of gear", so you didn't have to be restricted to those kits. But it probably made sense when this was all done in person with the seminars hosted by distributors. You'd place your order at the end of the seminar with the host... which provided those folks with the incentives to host the events in the first place. Online it doesn't provide that boost, and could do the opposite...


----------



## schalliol

Yeah. That's how I did it. No need to buy. I did do the triathlon QS shade training online, but I'd have to buy a demo unit and fabric book to be able to place orders through SCT. I am qualified and it would be great if I could buy a shade specified by me!


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ekkoville*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24155275
> 
> 
> Question here: I thought I'd read one time that the Ra2 dimmer or switch had IR capability in the switch or dimmer so as to use a hard button IR remote if needed. Is that true?



Could you please forward me this email? paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net my sources still say there is a buy in....


----------



## spiwrx

I've been told this weeks in a row for about a month and a half, but one of my better sources inside Lutron says the CL dimmer should be shipping any day.


We will be considering replacing our stock of 6D with 6CL as the CL should do everything plus what the 6D does & more.


Here is the latest pricing/part number sheet, please note the new part #'s for pico's as well (pico's with night light not shipping yet)


Also, there is a LV powered/wired pico that is not on here. You need a transformer to power it.[edited, PX does not work with RR2 as of 01-17-14] I haven't heard to many complaints about battery life yet, but it's available for those interested ( I think you could buy a decades + worth of batteries for the difference though)
RadioRA2-List-Price-1113.pdf 275k .pdf file


Lastly I was recently informed/reminded there is a Foundation / Adaptive package, those of you just getting started should consider.

The RR-FDN-ADAPT-WH includes:
4x 6NA
1x AD
1x W6BRL
1x Main Repeater


Depending on your dealer, should save you about $75-$100 over components alone, even if you don't need the AD your still coming out ahead.


----------



## az1324

There's a wireless pico with power input for permanent installation? What's the part number?


----------



## highnoon

1. Not sure that you posted the correct quote about the "buy-in"

2. Lutron website doesn't reflect the change


----------



## ekkoville




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24219614
> 
> 
> Could you please forward me this email? paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net my sources still say there is a buy in....



PM sent


----------



## Neurorad

Just changed a Pico battery last night. I would LOVE to hardwire that, and pay a lot of money for the transformer.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/840#post_24220267
> 
> 
> There's a wireless pico with power input for permanent installation? What's the part number?


PX instead of PJ, have been out for about a year, may be a new part number now that they have the PJ2's I'll try and find out. List $ starts at $60 though... (+ transformer)


edited, PX does not work with RR2 as of 01-17-14


----------



## az1324




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24222698
> 
> 
> PX instead of PJ, have been out for about a year, may be a new part number now that they have the PJ2's I'll try and find out. List $ starts at $60 though... (+ transformer)



I thought the PX series is a non-wireless product that sends out IR commands over a 3rd wire and has limited compatibility.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *az1324*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24224653
> 
> 
> I thought the PX series is a non-wireless product that sends out IR commands over a 3rd wire and has limited compatibility.



You are correct, I had been informed otherwise, but Lutron just confirmed with me. The PX does not work for RR2


----------



## az1324

Ok. Well not that hard to set up a 3.3V supply for picos and solder some wires if you have the wiring in place and really don't like changing batteries.


----------



## mattr6

We are currently building a new home and having used lutron products before, I want to use them again. Can you guys recommend a good starting point for the radiora2? I'm trying to do my research but I keep reading conflicting info. Do I need a "dealer" to enable app access? For example I plan to use it with Roomie remote. Just want to know the best way to start while walls are still going up. Any help much appreciated. Thanks! Matt


----------



## Gooch707


That depends if you want to do it all yourself.  If not, just contact a good local installer and they will take care of it all for you.  If you want to tackle the install and programming, I would suggest you take the online courses that Lutron offers.  I plan on doing my own house (in framing stage) and the courses were great, and when you are done and pass the course you get the software.  You can then buy the product yourself.  There are a few guys in the forum that are dealers, or you can look online (including ebay).


----------



## WilliamDj

  



Hello soon passeth me to a new apartment of about 70 square meters with the distribution you have in the image, taking into account the small room will be a study room and the median will be for a home theater room.


I would like a lutron radiora 2, but I would like to make my own purchase of equipment and only find the installer system because equipment costs are high in my country


----------



## mattr6




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gooch707*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24233245
> 
> 
> That depends if you want to do it all yourself.  If not, just contact a good local installer and they will take care of it all for you.  If you want to tackle the install and programming, I would suggest you take the online courses that Lutron offers.  I plan on doing my own house (in framing stage) and the courses were great, and when you are done and pass the course you get the software.  You can then buy the product yourself.  There are a few guys in the forum that are dealers, or you can look online (including ebay).



Thanks so much. I would love to do it myself, we are under roof so I would need to get it going soon. How long is the online course? Do I just go to lutron's website or call to get the information?


----------



## Gooch707


I can't post a link, but if you google 'RadioRa2 Online Training', choose 'Course Detail - Lutron' from the search results, then click on 'Study Online at LCI Website'.  You can then register and they will send you the link to all the courses to take.  There are alot of them, and it will take a number of hours to complete, but its very good information.  I would recommend you take notes as there is a test at the end and you have to pass with 70% or 80% (can't remember) to complete it.


----------



## mattr6

Thank you.


----------



## spiwrx

Here is the brochure for the online "BLAST" training:
3682540bBlastsellsheet.pdf 423k .pdf file


----------



## aharding

What in-between product would I need so that when I press the all off button, the sonos would either stop or pause? When turning on a light, the sonos presses play? I can do it with my roomie remote but not from a hard button. It would be nice if there were Lutron support in ifttt so that I could make a recipe, but there's not. Any suggestions?


----------



## spiwrx

^^^^ Please see if you can help this guy, I know there is something out there for him I'm just not as savy with the 3rd party integrations ^^^


We have received our first shipment of 6CL dimmers if you are interested PM or preferably email me... They are the same price as the 6D


----------



## user12345678

I gave him a solution through PM...


----------



## ekkoville

Might I ask what people are doing with switched outlets for inside and out? We several in the house and one on the exterior that are switched. We use lamps inside and some outside lights/decorations on the outside. Is the only good option to redo the wiring so it's not switched and use a lamp or appliance module? And for the outside, what's the best practice for that switched outlet?


----------



## az1324

For interior lamps you could use a dimmer and replace the outlet with the keyed outlet.


----------



## ekkoville

By keyed outlet, that means what? My apologies if it's straight forward and I missed it. The top of the outlet is switched on/off by a standard switch on the wall and you say replace that switch with a dimmer? Not sure what's next, could I just lamp dimmer rrd-3ld and disconnect the switch?


----------



## az1324

Of course if you don't need the switch then you can eliminate it and use the lamp dimmer or appliance module. But if you want to keep the switch you could use a dimmer if you replace the outlet with Lutron HFDU or DFDU receptacle.


----------



## wkearney99

The trouble with controlling switched outlets is dealing with the various kinds of loads that could be put on it. You really do not want to be running something like an electric lawn tool (mower, trimmer, etc) through a dimmer. The trouble is keeping that in mind over time. Thus Lutron's most typical solution is to suggest using a keyed outlet that requires a physically different plug be put on the end of whatever connects to it. For the typical situation of a wall switch in a room controlling a table lamp that's no big deal. It's easy to change plugs and the kind of plug still works in a regular socket (smaller prong). But for outside sockets that's probably not terribly realistic.


But Lutron does now make in-line devices, both switch and dimmer models. So you'd be able to put one of those wherever you'd want switched control of something, presuming it's suitable for being controlled. This raises the issue of how to weatherproof it, but various boxes exist to make that work. But that'd be a per-outlet sort of thing.


For our outside outlets I've got four locations on the front porch (left, right, middle and ceiling) intended for holiday lighting. They're normal single gang dual NEMA5-15 sockets, with one 'always live' and the other run through a RA-8ANS wall switch (not a dimmer). I've got the added step of using a red sharpie marker to color the socket that's switch controlled to save confusion later. When not being used I keep a child-proof plug stuck in the switched sockets to help prevent accidentally plugging anything else into them. It's not perfect and likely not to code but it does what I need.


----------



## schalliol

I've used Lutron's Receptacles for Dimming Use , which work great for dimming lamps. Plug-in modules are good, but they require extra wires.


I would like to see some nice outdoor control solutions like wkearney99 mentioned...at least as good as they get. I'm looking at building an outdoor living room, but I live in Indiana (and we currently have a bunch of snow on the ground and it's really cold tonight).


----------



## ekkoville

Now that I think of it, my one situation in the master bedroom has one onwall switch as you enter that controls two switched outlets. We have a lamp on both currently. Looks as if those dimmable outlets will work up to the load of the fixture which is no problem. I like that idea.


----------



## schalliol









Yeah, that's a good use for those. The only thing you might consider is if your significant other might want independent control of his/her lamp. You could do two plug-in modules either with table-top button or hidden wired control and a pico that could let you turn on/off both lamps plus separately yours/theirs. In that case, you could put a pico as you enter the room to turn on/off the lights.


----------



## ekkoville

That's an interesting idea as well since I just discussed having our own control of each lamp. Can a pico that's mounted on a wall control a 3LD like it could a 3PD?


----------



## Ramias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aharding*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24250140
> 
> 
> What in-between product would I need so that when I press the all off button, the sonos would either stop or pause? When turning on a light, the sonos presses play? I can do it with my roomie remote but not from a hard button. It would be nice if there were Lutron support in ifttt so that I could make a recipe, but there's not. Any suggestions?



I can do this with my Vera. Integrates RA2 and other devices. I can use the RA2 keypad as a trigger to call Vera scenes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## aharding

I have a Vera 2 but it seems temperamental. That's why I'm switching out my Leveton switches for Lutron. The Lutron RadioRa 2 controller seems to be bullet proof. It always works, 100% of the time. What is your experience with your Vera?


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ekkoville*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24274887
> 
> 
> That's an interesting idea as well since I just discussed having our own control of each lamp. Can a pico that's mounted on a wall control a 3LD like it could a 3PD?



Yes, but please keep in mind the minimum loads. They are both 10w (3LD / 3PD) however a single LED could potentially still present a problem.


----------



## Ramias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aharding*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24276013
> 
> 
> I have a Vera 2 but it seems temperamental. That's why I'm switching out my Leveton switches for Lutron. The Lutron RadioRa 2 controller seems to be bullet proof. It always works, 100% of the time. What is your experience with your Vera?



I really enjoy my Vera 3 and am doing more and more with it.


But RA2 is like an IPad. Vera is like Linux command line.


RA2 is elegant, nice finishes like the engraved keypads, just works --ALL THE TIME-- but isn't the cheapest option out there.


So I know my lights will always work how I want them to. And 99% of the time I can do cool things with them through my Vera.


I have a scene using a DSC wireless alarm sensor activate RA2 lights (6 LEDs using the 6NA dimmer) in the kitchen only if there is motion at night. I have all the lights shut off when I arm the alarm. Sonos, TVs, thermostat, receiver, projector also all shut off.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## schalliol

I see no difference between 3LD and 3PD. I use them interchangeably. It's only where the box is relative to the cords and whether there's a button for normal use. 3LD seems like the way to go even if hidden in most circumstances. I use 3LDs on single lamps, even like a 30W incandescent...


I still would love to see candelabra base 30W equivalent dimmable bulbs that work well. I have some lamps that use 3 of these for a nice warm soft light and haven't found good dimmable lower power options.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24285162
> 
> 
> I see no difference between 3LD and 3PD. I use them interchangeably. It's only where the box is relative to the cords and whether there's a button for normal use. 3LD seems like the way to go even if hidden in most circumstances. I use 3LDs on single lamps, even like a 30W incandescent...




(As suggested) Except for the interface I don't think you should notice any difference in performance.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24285162
> 
> 
> ]I still would love to see candelabra base 30W equivalent dimmable bulbs that work well. I have some lamps that use 3 of these for a nice warm soft light and haven't found good dimmable lower power options.



I haven't tested the dimming on these, but IMHO, some of the better looking candelabra base LED lamps.. (Their other lamps dim well) ... _not a ton of light though!_
http://www.ushio.com/products/generallighting/led-uled.htm


----------



## schalliol

Yeah, I'm looking for something that actually generates light







Those things say they output 36 lumens, whereas an incandescent puts something like 15 times more!


I would think it's possible to make such a lamp!


----------



## az1324

Well those are designed to replace 7W bulbs.


These are in the range of 25W equivalence: http://www.ushio.com/products/generallighting/led-utopiacandleglobe.htm


----------



## Ramias




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gooch707*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/870#post_24233245
> 
> 
> That depends if you want to do it all yourself.  If not, just contact a good local installer and they will take care of it all for you.  If you want to tackle the install and programming, I would suggest you take the online courses that Lutron offers.  I plan on doing my own house (in framing stage) and the courses were great, and when you are done and pass the course you get the software.  You can then buy the product yourself.  There are a few guys in the forum that are dealers, or you can look online (including ebay).



I have taken the course and passed but have not found out how to buy the product myself. How do I do this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## op-center

How is the availability of the RRD-6CL? I am interested in ordering a case but I have heard they are still hard to come by...


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *op-center*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24373905
> 
> 
> How is the availability of the RRD-6CL? I am interested in ordering a case but I have heard they are still hard to come by...



I have about 20 in stock right now Lutron has stock also if you are using another distributor you should be able to get them in a week or less. _(I only checked white, other colors may take a little longer)_


----------



## ekkoville




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24379187
> 
> 
> I have about 20 in stock right now Lutron has stock also if you are using another distributor you should be able to get them in a week or less. _(I only checked white, other colors may take a little longer)_



Do we PM you for a price? I saw the MSRP sheet you had, is $149 what we would expect?


----------



## spiwrx

Depending on your dealer, cost is the same as the regular 6D model. Please email me if you would like a quote (PM notifications are not instant / reliable for me). Please include a shipping address...


FYI, everyone has a lot of faith and anticipation in the 6CL, it's brand new I've only sold about 6 so far and it still has some limitations and depending on the connected load you may still need the 6NA or 10ND. Please do your homework, it's only recommended for LED's on the approved list I haven't scene yet...


----------



## spiwrx

Anyone have experience good or bad with alarm.com yet? Specifically with RR2 integration, but any feedback is appreciated. Looks pretty simple to connect, just wondering about their app, pricing and reliability.


Here's some of the application notes for those interested:
Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com 
Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com - FAQ


----------



## schalliol

I don't have direct experience with it, but my understanding is alarm.com is quite expensive. It's probably the way to go if cost isn't a big concern.


----------



## trx250r87

Would anyone be interested in trying out a couple new RRD-6CL's and be willing to trade? I have 2 that are not going to work for my application and I would like to trade for a pair of 10ND's, 6NA's, or 8ANS's.


Eric


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24385662
> 
> 
> Would anyone be interested in trying out a couple new RRD-6CL's and be willing to trade? I have 2 that are not going to work for my application and I would like to trade for a pair of 10ND's, 6NA's, or 8ANS's.
> 
> 
> Eric



PM sent...


EDIT: I couldn't help after all - so Eric's still looking for a trade...


----------



## trx250r87

jautor, thanks for trying to help! Anyone else interested in swapping their 8ANS, 6NA, or 10ND switches for my 6CL's?


Eric


----------



## wkearney99

I have some extras, let me check which kind later today. I know I don't have any 10ND extras and probably not the 6NA, but I do have a number of 6D dimmers. Might be one or two 8ANS, but I'll have to go digging...


----------



## spiwrx

This hasn't really ever been much of an issue, but I had to do this for 2 different customers in the last couple weeks. If you haven't kept up on your updates and have programmed your system in an old version, I keep older versions of software so I can update for you if you have a really old file. Just send it to me and if possible we'll get you up to v6.3 or v7.0 (reminder: you cannot extract previous to v6.0, but if you have a pre-6.0 program file you cannot update yourself, I can probably help).


BTW, 7.0 is now available on the resource site...


New Features in 7.0
New Products

1. RF Maestro C.L Dimmer

2. Sivoia QS Wireless® Horizontal Sheer Blinds

3. Sivoia QS Wireless® Fashion Honeycomb Shades

4. Pico Keypads with different light, shade, blind engravings and LED

5. 3-button with scene, raise/lower option for RF seeTouch and RF Hybrid seeTouch keypads

Design

6. Simplified the Add New Device screen.

a. Devices of the same aesthetic – Plug-in Modules, Tabletop seeTouch, Tabletop seeTouch for Shades, Shades/Blinds – are now grouped into one item on the toolbox.

b. Makes selection easier

c. Enables switching between different variants without losing programming.

7. Set dimmer advanced settings – low end trim, high end trim, on level, fade on rate, fade off rate – on hybrid keypad, for use by any remote dimmer attached

Program

8. New Shade Tilt View Toggle button type. Program blinds to move to the view position and then back to the close position

Usability Improvements

9. Instructions for changing temperature units to Celsius on a Lutron Honeywell TouchPro

10. Links to Lutron support forum

11. Visually separate loads natively supported by the device and those loads that require interfaces

12. Verify the low end trim setting for the dimmers in real time without having to transfer


----------



## spiwrx

Anyone interested in the RR2 L2 training, here is this years schedule.

http://origin.library.constantcontact.com/download/get/file/1102561678190-407/RA2+L2+Training+Sheet.pdf 


It's $600 here in Irvine (paid to Lutron) I would assume likewise across the country. So it's not really for the DIY. Primarily reason we have to use inclusive (L2) is to get over 100 devices, so unless you need to or sell/install/program this stuff all the time, this probably isn't for you.


----------



## trx250r87

What are you folks using for "dumb" switches? I can't see paying for and installing any RRD switch or dimmer in a location that will never need to be controlled. I was looking at the MRF2 Maestro line.

Also, what should be used on switched outlet circuits, for example in a living room?


Thanks,

Eric


----------



## rapamatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24416361
> 
> 
> What are you folks using for "dumb" switches? I can't see paying for and installing any RRD switch or dimmer in a location that will never need to be controlled. I was looking at the MRF2 Maestro line.
> 
> Also, what should be used on switched outlet circuits, for example in a living room?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eric


 

The Maestro switches match the look of the RR2 dimmers/switches and can be purchased in the same colors, so that's a good choice. You can also get regular decora sized switches from lutron in all the colors, so for certain non-controlled applications where people may be more used to a traditional switch (say in a dark closet or bathroom where they will be trying to locate the switch by feel) that may be a better fit.

 

You can dim switched outlets - but best to use the special lutron outlets and matching plugs so that you can only plug a lamp with a special plug into the dimmed outlet(s). You don't want to be dimming the vacuum cleaner plugged into the outlet.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24416361
> 
> 
> What are you folks using for "dumb" switches? I can't see paying for and installing any RRD switch or dimmer in a location that will never need to be controlled.



Never say never. Unless you're going to run up against device count limits (100 or 200) I'd never suggest avoiding automating all switches.


Even for closets and the attic I've got 'em. I've got two scheduled events at 9am and 3am that do nothing but 'housekeeping'. It goes back and turns off anything 'left on'. That and I've got the bottom-most button on keypads at the entry doors set up as 'All Off' that likewise goes around and turns everything off.


One tip, set some of the strategic lighting to use a delayed off duration. Setting it to 30 seconds gives anyone that might be in the area a chance to get to a control and override the change. But set lighting right near the keypad to use NO off delay and that will give an impression that button command was recognized.


So if you've left something uncontrolled I can pretty much guarantee you'll regret it as you get into fancier setups. The only place where I have a switch that's not RA2 is for the kitchen range vent hood. The hood doesn't have a separate circuit for the lighting and the fan. So I have to run the main power to the hood through an old-school physical switch. But since the fan motor itself is outside I ran that power through a switch right next to it. I tried using an 8ANS on this and I think the load of the fan was more than the switch would handle properly (flickering lights). At some point I plan on digging into the control panel of the fan to see if I can separate the power supply to the fan from the lighting.


I'm not telling you how to spend your money, just sharing an opinion.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rapamatic*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24416396
> 
> 
> ...so for certain non-controlled applications where people may be more used to a traditional switch (say in a dark closet or bathroom where they will be trying to locate the switch by feel) that may be a better fit.


How so? I mean beyond the lack of an up/down paddle position for on/off. The rest of the Maestro line (and most other Decora style) dimmers operate about the same. Or am I missing the point there? Yeah, there's some initial "how does that work?" confusion but I've not (yet) had anyone not get the gist of how to use them. I'm sure my 80+ in-laws will have comments when they visit, but that happens anyway...


> Quote:
> You can dim switched outlets - but best to use the special lutron outlets and matching plugs so that you can only plug a lamp with a special plug into the dimmed outlet(s). You don't want to be dimming the vacuum cleaner plugged into the outlet.


+1 to this. Do not underestimate the lengths a cleaning crew will go through to avoid using the proper outlets for the vacuum. I've even had one climb over the couch for the plug instead of using THREE others RIGHT OUT IN CLEAR VIEW. Using those sockets and plugs seems odd but it does save the trouble of someone using the wrong load through a very expensive switch...


Do they make a half-half single gang socket? I don't have any that need it, but in the old house I wouldn't have minded having a socket with both the dimmer style and a regular one in a single gang. I would've pulled wire to make it work.


For all of the new table lighting I find the tabletop or in-line modules work nicely. The key is placing the table dimmer or wall keypads in an obvious location. That and if the light is going to get adjusted with any regularity it helps to default the keypad's raise/lower buttons to it.


----------



## rapamatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24416502
> 
> 
> 
> How so? I mean beyond the lack of an up/down paddle position for on/off. The rest of the Maestro line (and most other Decora style) dimmers operate about the same. Or am I missing the point there? Yeah, there's some initial "how does that work?" confusion but I've not (yet) had anyone not get the gist of how to use them. I'm sure my 80+ in-laws will have comments when they visit, but that happens anyway...


 

That's exactly it - the up/down paddle. I've been amazed how much people have been confused by a simple maestro dimmer. Especially if the preset dimming level is set very low. The double-tap is not something intuitive, nor is the small side rocker (if people even notice that). I think people definitely get used to them, but if you have a large party or something like that, and people using a dark bathroom, they may want something familiar. 

 

I'm rolling out RR2 in stages in my house, and at least in the first round I'm leaving the public bathrooms untouched...


----------



## wkearney99

Oh, ok, now I get ya. Yes, I've run into situations where someone used the side dimmer buttons to 'turn off' the light but didn't get it all the way to off. And the paddle dutifully remembers that setting and brings the light back "on". Leaving no light. Yes, that's annoying. Likewise, the double-tap is confusing sometimes. I've seen people wonder why I double-tap a paddle. The trick is double tapping quickly, not tap.... tap... then they just get on and back off again.


I likewise agree on having 'familiar' switches for guests, so I don't use a keypad as the _primary_ means to light up the space in question. I'm debating the use of motion sensors to help overcome that. But it's a tough call, I do plan on using a 3rd party control system to give me some more 'conditional' logic. And I've been considering a 'party mode' as a candidate for that. For just what you suggest, controlling the light in a bathroom during parties. I hesitate to use them for daily use as there tend to be limitations involved. What we need/want as residents is different than guests.


I've been meaning to look into just how 'settable' the dim levels are via network control. As in, go into a switch and change it's dim level (without lighting it up) based on certain conditions. As in, that dimmer shouldn't be set to that level 'right now', and go set it back to the 'proper level' but leave it off. Precisely to clean up after someone mistakenly using the side dimmer buttons in an attempt to turn things off. My cleaning lady does this all the damned time...


My solution is to use a virtual keypad button that triggers a scene to turn everything on to a particular level. Then another one that turns them all back off again. It's a bit crude but it works for now, at least until I get some smarter control systems integrated.


I've debated the merits of programmatically going into all the dimmers and setting them to switch mode (of the kind that have the mode) to counteract the cleaning lady issue. As in, don't act as a dimmer at all. But it's not THAT annoying... yet.


----------



## intake

Bill, I was thinking about your dimmer preset level problem. You can set preset dimming levels for each zone in the Essentials software. It's in the Design tab, right click the main dimmer, select advanced settings. Set the "On Level" from last level to a level of your choosing. You can even globally apply this setting to all dimmers if you desire.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intake*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24429507
> 
> 
> Bill, I was think about your dimmer preset level problem. You can set preset dimming levels for each zone in the Essentials software. It's in the Design tab, right click the main dimmer, select advanced settings. Set the "On Level" from last level to a level of your choosing. You can even globally apply this setting to all dimmers if you desire.



Yes, that I knew. What I'm not entirely certain about is whether I can re-set the 'next on' dim value of a particular dimmer WITHOUT turning it on. The problem being the dimmers can retain their last adjusted dim level. This is a nice feature, most of the time. The only time it's a hassle is if someone that's unfamiliar with using the dimmers uses those side buttons in an attempt to turn the lights off. If they make the mistake of not going completely to full off the dimmer gets left in that state. The next time the button is pressed it gets interpreted as an 'off' command. And in the process of turning itself off it retains the dim level. So when you tap it again it dutifully returns the dim level to that last recorded/selected setting.


At I think that's what has happened. I can't remember specifically as I'm too used to operating them correctly.


----------



## wkearney99

Hmm, no, wait, that's not what's happening, at least not on a couple of them I have nearby. Hmmm, perhaps I'm mis-remembering the issue (or I've got these particular dimmers set not to remember?)


----------



## intake

Well it's one possible solution, but I do see how the dimming button can lead to confusion. Maybe set the low end in the most incorrectly used "guest areas" to a higher level so there is visual feedback to the user that, well, they are doing it wrong. As to the preset dimming level, if you can only do it in the "guest" areas. My only areas that I have preset levels are my wife's bedside, the kitchen island and a main outdoor patio area. I have found that If you can set the main level preset set correctly, the users end up not adjusting the lighting levels much.


I also use some time clock functionality to turn off certain zones, but those are mainly unused outdoor zones. I do turn off all indoor zones at 2 hours after sunrise each weekday morning to catch those lights we might overlook as we make the mad dash out the door in the morning. For those loads that will be put in service during the day, the house goes to the green mode time clock and all loads a reduced by about 30%. Green mode ends 10 minutes prior to sunset.


----------



## wkearney99

I do most of my work from home so green mode doesn't help much. That and the HVAC isn't RA2 (honeywell) and geothermal.


I agree that once you get things tuned there's very little need for changes. Trouble is this is a new house and we're nowhere near complete on decorating. Drapes, blinds, rugs, furniture, accent lighting, etc. All of it's changing, slowly, as we get situated in the new house. There are even a couple of places where we haven't selected the final ceiling figures (over tables, bar, island). So there's still plenty of fine-tuning to go. Makes for some 'fun' using keypads blind, but the WAF still remains high.


As an aside, the lack of customization in the RA2 IOS app is annoying. Yeah, yeah, there's a ton of other apps out there. But for basic lighting stuff it'd sure be nice if the app sucked less.


One thing that does seem likely will be needing to change lighting based on seasons. What's necessary in winter is rather different than summer, and tying them to just sunrise/sunset isn't quite enough. As in, how downlighting is handled outside the house is tied more to bedtime rather than just sunset alone. I'd don't see it being too big of a deal, but the tricky part will be saving and reloading programming sets. Reloading the whole set from a previous season might not work if there's a lot of unrelated stuff that's changed. But, again, not a huge issue.


----------



## jmanderson10

Hey everyone thanks in advance for all the great info. I just finished rolling out Ra2 to the rest of my house and completed the Blast online training to get my copy of Essentials. My installer left me a copy of the .lutx file but when I try to open it it says I can't because it was created by the Inclusive software.


Can I convert it or upgrade to Inclusive or am I up a proverbial creek?


Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24429576
> 
> 
> What I'm not entirely certain about is whether I can re-set the 'next on' dim value of a particular dimmer WITHOUT turning it on. The problem being the dimmers can retain their last adjusted dim level.



I know you can do this in every other form of Maestro, and I don't remember seeing it in the software put perhaps it's a less obvious RMB option or something...

However in APM mode(manually at the device) you can lock the preset, I would venture to guess it would work on a RR2 dimmer as well.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048370A.pdf


----------



## schalliol

What do you guys/gals do for outdoor solutions in zones where it may freeze? I know RR2 doesn't support below freezing our outdoor devices, but of course the dimmers can be inside a house. What I find more difficult to figure out is how to control items FROM the outside.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24435163
> 
> 
> What do you guys/gals do for outdoor solutions in zones where it may freeze? I know RR2 doesn't support below freezing our outdoor devices, but of course the dimmers can be inside a house. What I find more difficult to figure out is how to control items FROM the outside.



Not a familiar problem to me, but I would suggest dimmers inside and pico control outside (under weather protected cover). As cheap as they are, if it got destroyed it wouldn't be the end of the world, and depending on how you mount it you may make it easily removable if bad weather is planned and switch isn't always necessary.


Other thought would be to use a simple button (door bell or other type button or switch) and wire it (LV wire) to a VCRX(indoors) input to trigger the light(s), scene, Zone(s).


----------



## wkearney99

How many devices & main repeaters are involved? Because if it's more that 100 or two repeaters you'll need the Inclusive level.


----------



## intake

Would a wireless pico remote do the job? What about the wireless keypad? I have considered doing the Liquipel process to either of these devices to make it more rugged for outdoor use. But a pico is cheap enough to replace should it fail due to the elements.

http://www.liquipel.com


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/900#post_24435163
> 
> 
> What do you guys/gals do for outdoor solutions in zones where it may freeze? I know RR2 doesn't support below freezing our outdoor devices, but of course the dimmers can be inside a house. What I find more difficult to figure out is how to control items FROM the outside.



Just how many of these sorts of devices would actually fail if left connected in those conditions? Properly protected from moisture, of course. Which isn't necessarily as simple as you might think. The box on the front would need a sealed cover to help cut down on moisture migrating into the box through the switch.


But let's say they're unused, but still connected, is the cold going to harm them or cause them damage such that their lifespan would be shortened?


I had a Russound A-Bus keypad out on the north side of our place for a couple of years and it remained working fine. If only because I never thought to worry about whether it'd handle the winter temps!


I'd have to think there's some sort of tricks electrician's working in those areas know about. Some sort of heater on a thermostat to keep the box above dew point temp?


----------



## schalliol

Good thoughts on the outdoor application. I too was thinking Picos could be a good way to go, but I still am irritated that we don't have engravable Picos available. Further, it does seem like Lutron could develop a control that has a skin that would protect it from the elements.


Jon


----------



## spiwrx

The Pico is the wireless keypad available in various button configurations, but I think you might be limited to 3 buttons. Or you could do a 5, 10 or 15 button but those would be expensive, and difficult to mount. More meant for table tops.


Liquipel looks interesting..


----------



## schalliol

I don't think we have an issue with wiring anything, and the ideal solution would be a standard engraved keypad. Unfortunately this is just not an option outdoors where it gets below freezing in the winter. If one can make a simple button like a doorbell work reliably outside, I can't see why we can't have waterproof controllers.


----------



## rapamatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24451350
> 
> 
> I don't think we have an issue with wiring anything, and the ideal solution would be a standard engraved keypad. Unfortunately this is just not an option outdoors where it gets below freezing in the winter. If one can make a simple button like a doorbell work reliably outside, I can't see why we can't have waterproof controllers.


I think that's the issue. A keypad is a lot more complex than just a simple button. Interchangable face place, status LEDs, backlighting LEDs, multiple buttons, not to mention a reliable RF connection.... Lots of different materials (metals, plastic) that expand/contract at different rates...


----------



## jautor

There is the mobile app as a good solution for controlling lighting from outdoors... Not "permanent" like a keypad, but certainly works for occasional use without having to go back inside...


----------



## schalliol

Fair point on all the different products, but think about all the outdoor products that can run outside just fine. Sure, the mobile app is good, but dedicated controls make the most sense when you want a guest to be able to make adjustments.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24451350
> 
> 
> I don't think we have an issue with wiring anything, and the ideal solution would be a standard engraved keypad. Unfortunately this is just not an option outdoors where it gets below freezing in the winter. If one can make a simple button like a doorbell work reliably outside, I can't see why we can't have waterproof controllers.



First off, what's the lighting scenario here? What's the expected use pattern?


There's a ton of reasons why cold and outdoor environments pose BIG problems for complex electronic devices. Even a doorbell switch is going to have problems, but you're less likely to notice them because of the physical forces and amperage involved. Basically the rough contact of a simple switch, combined with the amount of electric flowing through it, is pretty good at keeping the switch perceived as 'working'.


Yet little of that applies for a much more complicated keypad or remote. The materials involved with how the buttons 'flex' usually have a very narrow window of temperatures in which they'll function reliably. To say nothing of the problems posed by moisture condensing on the circuit boards when tiny bits of SMDs are involved.


Then there's the cost factor. Almost anything is _possible_, but there isn't always enough of a market to justify anyone making the attempt. Just look at stuff like waterproof remotes. A simple $10 IR remote costs $150 when you introduce the requirement that it be waterproof (and float). The materials cost more, the design is more complicated to manufacture and assemble and then there's just not a ton of sales opportunities.


Sometimes it's worth considering using a product that you know may eventually fail and planning around those failures. A perfect switch (that doesn't exist, and would cost $$$ of they did) might be replaced by one that won't last more than a year or two. Factor that replacement effort into the budget.


As for engraving, there are lots of custom engraving services out there. Not as convenient, perhaps, as having Lutron do it, but even they probably job it out to someone else.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24451520
> 
> 
> Fair point on all the different products, but think about all the outdoor products that can run outside just fine.



Make sure you understand enough about the "products" involved. When you mention 'doorbell' in the same context as a smart keypad you're not making and "apples to apples" comparison. Either you're doing this just to troll and complain, or you don't really understand enough about WHY and HOW things work.


> Quote:
> Sure, the mobile app is good, but dedicated controls make the most sense when you want a guest to be able to make adjustments.



Then perhaps better explaining the desired scenario is in order. Consider starting a thread asking it ?


----------



## schalliol

I'll go into the situation, but really, this is not that hard. Take for example, this from Oregon Scientific . It's a wireless transmitter with LCD display that displays temperature and humidity that works well below freezing. I have one like this that's been outside and worked well at -14 degrees last month.


A pico is simpler than this. Of course a two-way unit like a keypad is perhaps more complicated, but not amazingly so.


I am putting in an outdoor landscaping and living space that will have a bunch of different lighting loads. In that there will be several zones, a fire pit area, back yard flood lights, a dinning area with lighting above, there will be floor lighting and landscape lighting. We probably will just have the lights timed in general for landscape lighting, but people might walk over to the table and want to turn on some light to see while eating, or they might want to adjust the lights with the fire pit area (potentially making it more intimate by muting other lighting outside the fire area), and they might want to press a button to turn flood lights on to walk out into the space. It seems reasonable for people to adjust lighting in an outdoor environment in a similar way that they would for those same activities inside.


----------



## Neurorad

I would go with Picos outside, under a covered porch. If you can mount the wall plates, you can bring them inside during the winter. There are third-party waterproof remotes that could be used, too, but it will cost you.


If not covered, I'd put the picos into weatherproof boxes.


----------



## spiwrx

It does all seem reasonable, to control from outside, though I would remind you that ultimately we're just working with whats available. I'm sure a regular keypad in a good weather tight cover would do fine for 90% of people, but if you have extreme weather you have to suffer the consequences or plan accordingly. The plan in this situation is a compromise in cost in the unlikely event weather causes a failure, or over-build and weather-protected (perhaps even heated) enclosure for the keypad??


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *schalliol*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24451737
> 
> 
> Take for example, this from Oregon Scientific . It's a wireless transmitter with LCD display that displays temperature and humidity that works well below freezing. I have one like this that's been outside and worked well at -14 degrees last month.



So you're comparing a device _designed to work outdoors_, with no input buttons on it, to a considerably more compact input device designed to work indoors.

*Apples do not equal oranges.*


> Quote:
> A pico is simpler than this.



And you base this _opinion_ on what *facts*?


> Quote:
> I am putting in an outdoor landscaping and living space that will have a bunch of different lighting loads. In that there will be several zones, a fire pit area, back yard flood lights, a dinning area with lighting above, there will be floor lighting and landscape lighting. We probably will just have the lights timed in general for landscape lighting, but people might walk over to the table and want to turn on some light to see while eating, or they might want to adjust the lights with the fire pit area (potentially making it more intimate by muting other lighting outside the fire area), and they might want to press a button to turn flood lights on to walk out into the space. It seems reasonable for people to adjust lighting in an outdoor environment in a similar way that they would for those same activities inside.



None of which you'd need to actually use in the condition you mention. So what's the problem? Place the switches/dimmers for them inside, wire the circuits accordingly and then just use the remotes as needed. Either Pico, the tabletop kind (which can run on batteries) or a smart phone app. Problem solved.


Otherwise I'd think using a 3rd party integration system with harsh condition switches would be a route to consider.


I'd think, however, trying a regular keypad left out there in a protected box would be worth considering. Unused and properly protected it would seem unlikely to fail just because of freezing temps below the spec'd rating. But even if it did they're not horribly expensive to replace.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24453846
> 
> 
> Unused and properly protected it would seem unlikely to fail just because of freezing temps below the spec'd rating. But even if it did they're not horribly expensive to replace.



Maybe programming the back-lighting to full brightness may bring the ambient up in the box slightly, just a thought. I know they're LED's but there is still a tiny amount of heat in the back lighting and associated electronics to keep it in spec??


----------



## intake

Who's going to volunteer a pico for long term cold weather testing in their fridge and freezer?


----------



## trx250r87

Has anyone successfully used a rrd dimmer or switch to control an outdoor motion light?

Eric


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24473485
> 
> 
> Has anyone successfully used a rrd dimmer or switch to control an outdoor motion light?
> 
> Eric


No. I tried using a RA1 with a light that had it's own motion control. The trouble is you can't get those damned things to toggle their motion/on mode reliably. It's always this dance of on/off/on/lift one leg/pat your head nonsense. Adding the RA switch to the mix did not improve the situation. That and some work with just a switch leg, but expect the circuit to stay live. Ones that require their own neutral are 'less worse' but you still have the motion/on toggle dance.


As yet I've not integrated motion with my RA2 setup. My plan is to use 3rd party integration to handle it. Elk, HAI, CQC, I haven't yet decided. That and where the flood light fixtures are located is great for lighting, but would be terrible for motion detection. So I had boxes put in with wiring to accommodate adding sensors later.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trx250r87*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24473485
> 
> 
> Has anyone successfully used a rrd dimmer or switch to control an outdoor motion light?
> 
> Eric



The idea of the sensor is to be rather autonomous, but if you want system control and motion sensing I would suggest a third party sensor (through a clean contact/ relay) connected to input of the VCRX until lutron has a outdoor sensor of it's own. You could then also program/trigger an inside light to notify you if something went on outside. With this method you could dim or switch.


You should be able to switch (before) the motion sensor but as Bill suggested you may start screwing with the modes of sensor. We like RAB ( www.rabweb.com ) for outdoor sensors but there many others.


Lastly, You may consider using a switch and small relay to bypass the sensor if you wanted to override it, occasionally.


As Bill mentioned there may be some 3rd party equipment like ELK or other security products you can integrate as well.


----------



## dgage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24481630
> 
> 
> You should be able to switch (before) the motion sensor but as Bill suggested you may start screwing with the modes of sensor. We like RAB ( www.rabweb.com ) for outdoor sensors but there many others.
> 
> .



I second Paul's suggestion of RAB motions sensors. I bought several of these outdoor motion floods 2.5 years ago and they've been outstanding. Went through many different motions before but will likely stick with RAB in the future.

http://www.amazon.com/RAB-Lighting-STL360HBW-Stealth-Sensor/dp/B000W3YI26/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1395269082&sr=8-6&keywords=rab


----------



## dgage

I've had my RadioRa2 system for over a year and I'm finally looking to add the 3-way HVAC controls (seeTemp, temp sensor, controller). I searched through the thread and there was some great information about the temperature controls, especially from dring and Paul(spiwrx). Before I place my order, I just wanted to make sure there weren't any real issues with the RadioRa2 temperature controls or if the 3-way was better than the TouchPro (or vice-versa). Thanks.


David


----------



## rapamatic

While the aesthetics of the 3 part system are hard to beat, I'd suggest at least taking a look at ecobee. I was considering the lutron HVAC stuff and went with ecobee. It's a lot more flexible, you can control humidity (dehumidifier, humidiifer, etc), you can set things like minimum fan runtime per hour, it's got a great smart setback system that learns when to turn on the heat (based in part on outside temp), and it has a great web interface where you can program anything and get great analytics about your system (you can download csv files with every piece of data you can imagine at a 5 min frequency).


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dgage*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24504713
> 
> 
> I've had my RadioRa2 system for over a year and I'm finally looking to add the 3-way HVAC controls (seeTemp, temp sensor, controller). I searched through the thread and there was some great information about the temperature controls, especially from dring and Paul(spiwrx). Before I place my order, I just wanted to make sure there weren't any real issues with the RadioRa2 temperature controls or if the 3-way was better than the TouchPro (or vice-versa). Thanks.
> 
> 
> David



It's really a matter of aesthetic. The touchPro is just a re-configured honeywell control which a lot of people are familiar with and/or already set up for in most cases. The "3-way" _(I'd like to call 3-peice to avoid confusion)_ would look nicer on the wall as you can gang it with other devices. The remote temperature sensors are key because you can mount them where they should go, which is not typically where the control is, also there are wired and wireless sensors.


Side note, you can use the touchPro with see temp controller and wireless sensors all together as well if it makes sense for you.


----------



## wkearney99

+1 on the sensors likely needing to be in places other than where you'd want control. Or even where you'd want to put the control, aesthetically.


We've got a control situated in a place that ended up being just no good for controlling that zone's temp. We've got Honeywell Redlink-compatible thermostats (VisionPro 8000 series). These support putting a small wireless temperature (or combined temp/humidity) sensor elsewhere. The remote one takes precedence over the one in the control. This has improved the overall level of comfort for the zone. Enough that I added one to the upstairs zone also, and have had similar success.


The thermostats are hard-wired to the equipment, but speak wirelessly to the gateway and sensors. The docs from the vendor don't usually show this configuration. They typically show using the thermostats wirelessly, which is fine, but requires putting a controller on the equipment to receive the signals. This is an added expense that doesn't offer much if you've got hard wiring available. Mine was setup that way new, I added sensors for indoor and outdoor temps, along with the wired internet gateway. It all setup with no trouble at all (it does NOT require a tech to do this). I picked up the gear online (amazon and pexsupply.com)


At this point being able to integrate with RA2 would really not offer much. It's not like I'd want anyone tapping at a keypad to be able to alter the temps. That sort of thing is truly best left to a separate on-wall device, if just to avoid inadvertent changes or other screwups. I can control it remotely via their Internet service, but not locally directly to the devices. I'm not displeased about this at the present time. Sure, having local control has it's perceived advantages, as does remote access.


But, honestly, once you get the appropriate schedules 'dialed in' how often do you truly need to access them? This is the trick, figuring out just what sort of scheduling is desired. Having access via a web browser or app does help for the override situations. Especially when the thermostats (or the app) understand or offer 'return to schedule' option. Being able to temporarily override for just 2 hours is handy on days with snow delays. Instead of overriding the whole day until the 'return home' schedule event occurs.


If you're not happy with how your HVAC system is behaving, adding your own controls and fiddling with configurations may NOT help. It's entirely possible there are other changes necessary to overcome what might be a poorly implemented setup. Paying to have a knowledgeable HVAC pro come do a thorough analysis may be well worth considering. Could be some changes to zones, ducts or other equipment might help a LOT more.


Just some thought to bear in mind...


----------



## dgage

Thanks for the responses as there isn't much info out there on the Lutron thermostats and I just wanted to make sure they worked as expected.


And thanks for the other solutions but I think I will go with the simpler "system" that the 3-way RadioRa2 provides since it will also integrate with Charmed Quark (CQC), which is my home automation software. I know CQC has an Ecobee driver and others but those seem to add some features (and complexity) that I just wouldn't use at this time.


And Bill, when are you and I finally going to pull the trigger on that Elk? I know I've been talking about for over a year and you...quite a while as well.


----------



## wkearney99

I'm still grinding along with getting used to the new house and setting things up. I'm in no big rush to make it happen. What I've wanted to do is get familiar to how we actually make *USE* of the house. How we entertain with the spaces, day-to-day life, holidays, etc. We've not yet had outdoor events, so the whole outdoor motion detection thing hasn't been an issue. I think once that starts happening (next month, hopefully) I'll have a better grasp of what I want to automate.


The same thing goes for speaker control. The ability to integrate control over in-room AVRs, along with whole-house is an unknown to me at this point. HAI appears to have a more integrated way to interface with our Russound system. So the scale tips a bit in that direction. But at the same time more robust options like CQC are still whispering their call...


Meanwhile I've had great luck with the initial Lutron configuration I worked out with Paul. I'll be adding a few more hybrid keypads (to replace a dimmer here and there) along with some indoor motion sensors and table dimmers.


I still have not ordered the blinds! (my To Do list is just huge). But along the way I think I've sold myself away from using automated ones 'everywhere'. If only because moving to automated blinds introduces a bit of 'local control' unfriendliness for guests and such. So postponing them has been worthwhile as part of the learning process.


----------



## dgage

Haha. Sounds familiar with life getting in the way of automating living.







For me its similar as well as many projects and priorities...the Elk, while cool, just keeps getting moved down.


One of the reasons I was thinking of the RadioRa2 3-piece is I too am just really happy and impressed with my Lutron gear...it just works.


I looked up the Ecobee last night and it seemed feature packed and then looked at the Redlink controls you mentioned. One thing that stood out was the ability to have multiple zones. So I started looking at multiple dampers and came across Honeywell main units that could control multiple dampers. And then I came across some of your posts Bill about smart dampers on other sites. So here is the situation and let me know what you think. Summer isn't so much an issue but in the winter the bedrooms are quite different temperatures. My daughter's room on the north side of the house is always colder than the other rooms so we countered this by putting in a heating ceiling fan. For my sons room, it is more moderate but he likes the room a little warmer than us so we put a floor electrical heating fan. For the master bedroom, we moved the thermostat into our room and keep it cooler. It would be nice if we could have motorized dampers that would negate the need for the heating fans in the kids rooms. Does this sound like something doable without being too expensive? I understand that going multiple zones/dampers would remove RadioRa2 temp control from the decision. And I would plan to do the work myself and I've played with HVAC enough to be able to do "advanced" basic work.







Thanks.


Here is the page that got the juices flowing with thoughts of dampers dancing in the ceilings.








https://customer.honeywell.com/en-US/Pages/department.aspx?cat=HonECC%20Catalog&category=Zoning+-+Forced+Air&catpath=1.2.27


----------



## wkearney99

I suspect a discussion of dampers and other products is probably worth it's own message thread. The Honeywell gear does a nice job of this, but the ducting system MUST be designed to handle the airflow properly. You can't just add dampers without a really thorough understanding of the system as a whole and ALL of the parts on it. Because getting it wrong raises serious issues with inefficiencies and potentially damage to equipment. As in, you make the unit run wrong and burn out the blower, or cause an AC unit to freeze over and burn out a compressor.


I'm all for being able to DIY things, but from what I've learned over the years HVAC is really worth paying someone to see what you've got, listen to what you want and come up with a plan to get there. The trick is in finding that someone.


----------



## wkearney99

As for temp differences in winter, how are things insulated? I've heard quite a lot of stories about seriously improved situations when techniques like foam insulation were applied. Several neighbors have had foam sprayed in and had dramatic improvements in winter heat conditioning.


----------



## dgage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/930#post_24507473
> 
> 
> The trick is in finding that someone.



If I hadn't already been tricked multiple times, I'd trust professionals to actually be professionals and then there's my parent's old house that was condemned because of "professional" covering stuff up and took 7 years for the judicial system to play out. So I'd rather educate myself and do it right than pay someone to not do as good a job because they don't know or care enough to do the job right. I have a great mechanic that I trust and he only works on Acura, Honda, Lexus, and Toyota. So now that I've found a true professional, I'm stuck with the brands of cars I can buy.







So I know once you find that gem, you better take care of them so they can take care of you.


In this case, I do actually have some ancillary knowledge from my woodworking dust collection system. Not the same thing but similar concerns in relation to needing ducts open or the motor will burn out.


Thanks for the info. I better do some research down this path before I decide to get a normal thermostat system.


David


----------



## wkearney99

I share your sentiments, it's hard to find reliable folks in any profession. It's not impossible for a non-professional to tackle it. That hard part isn't learning the required info, it's having enough tools and time to put it all together into a viable solution.


It's been my experience that when folks have areas of specific differences in HVAC results there's usually something larger wrong with the situation. Like poorly sized ducts somewhere, or mis-connected ones, or even the wrong kind of system. Thus my caution regarding the notion of sticking dampers in the mix somewhere. Finding out why those rooms aren't conditioned effectively would be my first thought. Have a plan for solving that first and then look to see what gizmos can be applied.


Could be as simple as a problem we had in the old house; someone had buried a manual damper behind a ceiling bulkhead (and it was 70% closed). It would have been dead simple for someone with a duct camera to find. Curiously the duct cleaning folks didn't discover it because their brush passed in along the direction of the vane and didn't get caught. I've got plenty of tools but as yet no cameras for ducts or plumbing. I'd have been more than willing to cut holes in the bulkhead had I know there was even a damper in there!


I'm eventually going to add an dust collecting system for my workshop. But I've got a whole lot more organizing and unpacking to do first! At some point I do want to revisit how to use RA2 to handle a blower motor. I tried using one on our range hood but it didn't work reliably (8ANS is probably not the right switch). Again, that's one of those 'round tuit' things...


----------



## user12345678




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shaun5*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/810#post_24115537
> 
> 
> I am curious what everyone is looking for in an app and if what I have is marketable....
> 
> 
> I wrote a web app almost 4 years ago for my Ra2 system: Interface has sliders for dimmers, buttons for switches/scenes, scene recorder that records the state of all the switches/ dimmers that can be altered and 'played back' , 2 way communication for all the dimmers/buttons/scenes. Server side interlocks (turn one light on/off and it turns another on/off), conditional logic for occupancy.



I have completely rewritten my app to run on a Raspberry Pi which will cut the cost by 1/3 to a plug and use system. If anyone is interested in adding my additional functionality (or the functionality suggested by others) to a RA2 system send me a PM...


----------



## WilliamDj

that will be good for the lighting system conprar a radiora 2 or q because I get control4 HC250 controller or get the lighting system control4



Enviado desde mi iPhone con Tapatalk


----------



## ELECTRICDON

Not sure if it's OK to post for sale items here, but thought it might get more interest than posting in the classifieds.


We are no longer installing RA2 and have some left over items in our stock and some items taken from our show home. PM me if any one is interested.


2 LRD-WST-F-WH SEE TEMP NIB $90/EACH

3 TEMP SENSORS NIB $25/EACH

1 LR-HWLV-HVAC HONEYWELL TOUCH PRO T-STAT NIB $200

1 LR HVAC-1-WH HVAC CONTROLLER NIB $100

1 LR HVAC-1-WH HVAC CONTROLLER DEMO $50

1 RR-15APS-1 USED $40

3 LRF2-OCRB-P-WH OCC SENSORS USED $25/EACH

1 5 BUTTON PICO LIGHT ALMOND NEW/OPENED $20

3 RRD-6D-WH USED $50/EACH

1 MA-AS ACCESSORY SWITCH WHITE NIB/OPENED $20

2 RRD 8ANS-LA USED $50/EACH

3 RRD 10D-WH NEW/OPENED $90/EACH

1 RRD 8ANS-WH NEW/OPENED $75


I would rather sell and ship the whole lot. $750 for everything shipped CONUS.


----------



## dgage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ELECTRICDON*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/960#post_24648256
> 
> 
> Not sure if it's OK to post for sale items here, but thought it might get more interest than posting in the classifieds.
> 
> 
> We are no longer installing RA2 and have some left over items in our stock and some items taken from our show home. PM me if any one is interested.
> 
> 
> 2 LRD-WST-F-WH SEE TEMP NIB $90/EACH
> 
> 3 TEMP SENSORS NIB $25/EACH
> 
> 1 LR-HWLV-HVAC HONEYWELL TOUCH PRO T-STAT NIB $200
> 
> 1 LR HVAC-1-WH HVAC CONTROLLER NIB $100
> 
> 1 LR HVAC-1-WH HVAC CONTROLLER DEMO $50
> 
> 1 RR-15APS-1 USED $40
> 
> 3 LRF2-OCRB-P-WH OCC SENSORS USED $25/EACH
> 
> 1 5 BUTTON PICO LIGHT ALMOND NEW/OPENED $20
> 
> 3 RRD-6D-WH USED $50/EACH
> 
> 1 MA-AS ACCESSORY SWITCH WHITE NIB/OPENED $20
> 
> 2 RRD 8ANS-LA USED $50/EACH
> 
> 3 RRD 10D-WH NEW/OPENED $90/EACH
> 
> 1 RRD 8ANS-WH NEW/OPENED $75
> 
> 
> I would rather sell and ship the whole lot. $750 for everything shipped CONUS.



You've got another PM.


----------



## ELECTRICDON

SOLD IT ALL, THANKS!


----------



## spiwrx

New, RR2 news hot off the press....

http://app.lutron.info/e/es.aspx?s=1581&e=25291&elq=91e8a78ebf214e4bb13060fcd6d28125 


Best new thing from my POV is the 0-10v Dimming modules (not Wall dimmer)...


----------



## intake

And the bad part is the new components, including the new RF contact closure appear to be for the inclusive level only.


----------



## wkearney99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spiwrx*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/960#post_24726044
> 
> 
> Best new thing from my POV is the 0-10v Dimming modules (not Wall dimmer)...


How would one of these be used for controlling stuff like LED light tape, which are typically driven by either 12 or 24 vdc? I'm clearly missing something regarding the 'balllast' part of it.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkearney99*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/960#post_24726132
> 
> 
> How would one of these be used for controlling stuff like LED light tape, which are typically driven by either 12 or 24 vdc? I'm clearly missing something regarding the 'balllast' part of it.



I need them for Exterior Heater Controls, but they could also be used for 0-10v dimming. Some of the better dimming drivers for LED and CFL required a 0-10v reference signal to scale the dimming. In these cases these drivers or ballasts have a separate 2 wire connection for this 0-10v signal. More common in industrial control, but also fairly common in Fluorescent Dimming as well some of the first dimmable LED drivers. It seems that most of these systems are able to get closer to 100% dimming, but undesirable due to the additional wiring and in some cases and additional relays as well. In some cases you need a switch to turn on the driver and a 0-10v (dimmer) to adjust. It all depends on the Driver mnf. whether the 0v signal will just be that or turn the driver off as well...


It's definitely not something we do everyday but I've worked out a custom circuit with the help of a controls mnf. to convert a 6NA dimmer to to a 0-5v for their specific SSR's that allow me to control 6kw heaters via a dimmer or keypad which is really nice because we can have a simple keypad out side know vs. the archaic large rotary type intensity controls common to those exterior heaters. Of coarse the Dimmers and SSR's are hidden neatly in a control cabinet somewhere.


In this pic. we are controlling 4 groups of 2x 2500watt heaters in a small restaurants patio. The Dimmer is shown here, but these are placed remotely in the restaurant, the control panel is on the roof and we have a keypad programmed for toggling each of the 4 groups, a preset scene with all 4, an "all off", plus Raise Lower for the main "local" control. A timer included in the programming shuts everything off after business hours so the employees don't forget to shut off 20,000 watts of heat.


----------



## spiwrx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *intake*  /t/1178211/lutrons-radiora2/960#post_24726080
> 
> 
> And the bad part is the new components, including the new RF contact closure appear to be for the inclusive level only.



I didn't notice that, but I'm usually always in Inclusive. Price / feature wise it may still make more sense to use the VCRX vs. the CCO. The CCO only has only 1 SPDT out put, so you would like have to buy two for a lot of 3rd party shades, blinds, skylights, etc... But if they work off a simple 3wire control then maybe just one. And no input on the CCO. The CCO's should (don't quote me) price out price out about 1/3 the price of a VCRX but if you can use any of the other features on the VCRX you get more bang for the buck.


Maybe it will pop up in essentials later. But hey, I checked last week and they still aren't shipping and the 6CL dimmers took almost 1/2 year from announcement to shipping.


----------



## aharding

I've installed a Radio Ra2 system in our house and have been using for about six months. I would like to add the following but are stuck on the solution.


1) Bathroom has multiple Ra switches that control an all in one heat/light/exhaust fan. The light and exhaust fan switches are fine but I need a higher Amp setup for the heat circuit. The current switch gets too warm to the touch.


I'm thinking that the Ra2 switch needs to control a relay which then is wired to the heat circuit?


What relay would be the best in this situation? Any suggestions for other best solutions?


2) Outdoor switches for pool and hot tub light and pool pump and hot tub motor. Currently the switches are standard toggle switches mounted in a waterproof housing. No easy way to move the wiring indoors to install Ra2 switches as the switches are located outside by the pool.


I wanted to install Ra2 switches outside so that a 4 button controller in the house could turn the lights on and off to the pool.


----------



## wkearney99

First make sure the distance out to those switches will work. If you're brave just use a work box and make a temporary setup. If they work out in that location then you shouldn't really have any trouble using them as replacements for the lights. The pump motor, however, might be an issue.


Which model RA2 unit were you using with the ceiling heater?


----------



## DMILANI

*Triathlon Shades*

I'm thinking about adding the Triathlon Honeycomb shades to my RA2 system. 


For those that have these, how are they holding up? Where's the best place to buy these?


Thanks,
Dino


----------



## spiwrx

aharding said:


> I need a higher Amp setup for the heat circuit. The current switch gets too warm to the touch.
> 
> I'm thinking that the Ra2 switch needs to control a relay which then is wired to the heat circuit?
> 
> What relay would be the best in this situation? Any suggestions for other best solutions?
> 
> 2) Outdoor switches for pool and hot tub light and pool pump and hot tub motor. Currently the switches are standard toggle switches mounted in a waterproof housing. No easy way to move the wiring indoors to install Ra2 switches as the switches are located outside by the pool.
> 
> I wanted to install Ra2 switches outside so that a 4 button controller in the house could turn the lights on and off to the pool.



The RRD-8ANS is only 8amps = 960watts, most bathroom ceiling heaters are at least 1200-1500watts. 

We sell/use a small cube relay rated for 30amps that would be perfect. 

As for the pool equipment, I'm actually about to do the same thing at my house. Seeing as at least the motors will need relays I was just going to use a VCRX. Relays are cheap and now I can control up to 4 items via 3rd party relays and a control transformer. The VCRX should cost about the same as at least 2 switches/dimmers so there's your savings (assuming you do not have a need to dim the light). For me I have Pool Pump, hot-tub/pool valve, light and heater. It's going to work perfect, you can schedule with a timer and either use a Pico, Wired keypad or virtual keypad to control, assuming you have range from the Main (or Aux.) repeater to where you have to mount the VCRX (or Switches).


----------



## spiwrx

DMILANI said:


> I'm thinking about adding the Triathlon Honeycomb shades to my RA2 system.
> 
> 
> For those that have these, how are they holding up? Where's the best place to buy these?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Dino


LMK, Dino I can help. My parents have these in there home in direct full sun for about 3 years now. Still works great, still quiet, and still on the same batteries. (only 1 up/down cycle per day). They don't have a RR system, just on Pico's, but can be controlled by a system if they ever decide to add one. 

Roller's are also now available. I'm about ready to order some rollers for our new place, we have the same problem, full sun direct in the kitchen just when you want to prepare for dinner.


----------



## DMILANI

Thanks Paul.


The roller shades are a bit more expensive than the honeycomb, correct?


----------



## spiwrx

Yes they are. I think they are still reasonable for a motorized shade though...


----------



## rapamatic

DMILANI said:


> Thanks Paul.
> 
> 
> The roller shades are a bit more expensive than the honeycomb, correct?


The rollers aren't too bad - we've ordered one for a large sliding door for around $1300 installed... for windows they are more like $1000 each... This is for fairly basic material, not the fancy prints. You can easily spend that much or more on non-motorized window treatments.


----------



## DMILANI

Thanks rapamatic. I'd be doing my own installation, so the cost should be a little less.


I think I'm leaning toward the honeycomb shades now. How much approx. for a 3'x5' window? I'm hoping it's closer to $500 or $600.


Dino


----------



## spiwrx

DMILANI said:


> Thanks rapamatic. I'd be doing my own installation, so the cost should be a little less.
> 
> 
> I think I'm leaning toward the honeycomb shades now. How much approx. for a 3'x5' window? I'm hoping it's closer to $500 or $600.
> 
> 
> Dino


Actually less for the most basic / common materials on the Honeycomb. Pick out a fabric and send me some exact dimensions/mount...


----------



## spiwrx

aharding said:


> 
> 2) Outdoor switches for pool and hot tub light and pool pump and hot tub motor. Currently the switches are standard toggle switches mounted in a waterproof housing. No easy way to move the wiring indoors to install Ra2 switches as the switches are located outside by the pool.


So here was my solution. [VCRX CCO output (#)'s] 
(1) Main Pump Relay/Contactor. I used a 3 pole, the 3rd pole disconnects the valves and heater controls(24vac) so they will not work if the pump isn't running
(2) DPDT Relay which switch the Valve actuators from Spa to Pool, also the second pole switches either the pool or spa heater depending on the valve position. 
(3) Heater relays (pool & spa), turns on heater selected by valve position above. 
(4) Pool/Spa Lights 











Control will be mainly from timer in the Main repeater or Inside Keypad. Exterior Override switch will be wired to the CCI's on the VCRX when we wrap this up so the pool cleaner can run the pump and switch the valve.


----------



## A&M 350Z

Help! I have been bitten by the lighting control bug! So, I am designing my system now and have one question. I just completed the online training and have been playing around with the Essential software. One item I notice missing is an automated lighting schedule. Is that possible with RadioRA2? For instance, if I want a light to be on automatically from 7pm to 10pm, is there a way to integrate that into the system? I know it is possible with Insteon and seperate controller but frankly there products look very cheap to me and I am turned off by the quality issues. I plan to integrate the lighting system with our Crestron system which is as of now only running the theater and whole home audio. Thoughts or advice? Appreciate any.


----------



## jautor

A&M 350Z said:


> Help! I have been bitten by the lighting control bug! So, I am designing my system now and have one question. I just completed the online training and have been playing around with the Essential software. One item I notice missing is an automated lighting schedule. Is that possible with RadioRA2? For instance, if I want a light to be on automatically from 7pm to 10pm, is there a way to integrate that into the system? I know it is possible with Insteon and seperate controller but frankly there products look very cheap to me and I am turned off by the quality issues. I plan to integrate the lighting system with our Crestron system which is as of now only running the theater and whole home audio. Thoughts or advice? Appreciate any.


Under the Program tab, you'll see "Timeclock" next to the "Keypads" tab... 

That should keep you busy for a while. 

Jeff


----------



## A&M 350Z

Ah, thanks so much. Should have known that!


----------



## trx250r87

An issue I'm having is that there is a remote dimmer (RD-RD) at the bottom of my garage stairs outside the exterior door leading into the basement. I have no visual indicator that the light is in fact turned off when I shut my extrior door after leaving the basement in to the garage. It would be nice if the RD-RS and RD-RD had the LED's on them.

ERIC


----------



## wkearney99

trx250r87 said:


> An issue I'm having is that there is a remote dimmer (RD-RD) at the bottom of my garage stairs outside the exterior door leading into the basement. I have no visual indicator that the light is in fact turned off when I shut my extrior door after leaving the basement in to the garage. It would be nice if the RD-RS and RD-RD had the LED's on them.


Yep, it would be. The dimmer's the only one that shows the LED. Had I know that I would have double-checked how the electrician wired up my outside floodlights. Now I've got a dimmer (a hybrid actually) stuck upstairs and no-light remotes down where I'd care most about seeing an indicator. 

One work-around is to use a keypad and set one of the buttons as a toggle for that dimmer. You don't need the traveler wire connected for the remote switch. The keypad would be controlling the dimmer via RF. Downside is the keypad certainly costs more than a remote dimmer.


----------



## intake

trx250r87 said:


> An issue I'm having is that there is a remote dimmer (RD-RD) at the bottom of my garage stairs outside the exterior door leading into the basement. I have no visual indicator that the light is in fact turned off when I shut my extrior door after leaving the basement in to the garage. It would be nice if the RD-RS and RD-RD had the LED's on them.
> 
> ERIC


What model is the main switch? If it's a non keypad model or if you are not using a neutral, the dimmer can live anywhere in the circuit, so move it to be near the door in question.

Also consider adding a time clock event to turn off the light should it be accidentally left on.

I agree; feedback on remote switches would be nice. I have a remote switch (RD-RS) that is like that for exterior floods, but fortunately, it is within sight of the lights in question.


----------



## spiwrx

intake said:


> Also consider adding a time clock event to turn off the light should it be accidentally left on.


I use this one a lot, depending on the client I typically always have a full off (maybe less a porch light or something) every night at an agreed upon time. If you are using this time-clock feature consider the suspend keypad logic on a button somewhere for times when you'd like to bypass it... 

Also, for Status on a 3-way... The first and the latest models (PJ2....) of Pico's have an LED indicator. I haven't tested one for this purpose, but they are even cheaper than an RD or RS (or about the same with wallbox adapter). Downside/trade-off would again be the 3yr battery life.


----------



## wkearney99

Heh, my 3am 'all off' timeclock event has reminded me, more than once, to GO TO BED. 

One nice touch is to set some lighting along a path a longer fade or a delay (they're different). As in, set most lights to go off right away, but leave a couple of them with a 5-10 second fade time. That or use the default 2 second fade but add a 5-10 delay for just those lights. This way anyone present at the time will see most of the lights go out but still be able to make their way before everything's out.


----------



## schalliol

wkearney99 said:


> Heh, my 3am 'all off' timeclock event has reminded me, more than once, to GO TO BED.


+1 

I do a 60 second fade at 3 AM.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> +1
> 
> I do a 60 second fade at 3 AM.


I prefer using the delay as some of my lighting is LED (which sometimes has issues with dimming). I seem to recall there was a dance you had to go through in the software to enable showing the delay column...


----------



## yetis

Simple question. Just purchased a house that will at some point, go through renovation. There are a number of switches, dimmers and similar items that are addressed with Lutron tech that need immediate replacement. We will be going with a AMX home control system, but only when we do the whole house renovation. I see that AMX sells their own co-branded Lutron controls. Is there any reason one must go with the AMX co branded kit, or can I just use the RadioRA2? 

Thank you


----------



## schalliol

wkearney99 said:


> I seem to recall there was a dance you had to go through in the software to enable showing the delay column...


Nothing fancy, just right click and use advanced settings. However, if you don't have the software, you can enter APM with walk around programming, but that would be maddening!

yetis, no idea really, but they do say Lutron Clear Connect enabled and do appear to just be Lutron part numbers with different prefixes and I'd guess they would work. They may load the main repeater with some different technology, but I doubt it. I'd call lutron and AMX to be sure.


----------



## az1324

schalliol said:


> yetis, no idea really, but they do say Lutron Clear Connect enabled and do appear to just be Lutron part numbers with different prefixes and I'd guess they would work. They may load the main repeater with some different technology, but I doubt it. I'd call lutron and AMX to be sure.


Actually I think the AMX stuff uses a quite different main repeater. The official line is that they are not cross compatible, but someone has used an AMX ccd dimmer with a ra2 system and it was 99% compatible. AMX should have a driver for ra2, in which case best to stick with that.


----------



## spiwrx

az1324 said:


> Actually I think the AMX stuff uses a quite different main repeater. The official line is that they are not cross compatible, but someone has used an AMX ccd dimmer with a ra2 system and it was 99% compatible. AMX should have a driver for ra2, in which case best to stick with that.


I can't speak for AMX but I know any other time Lutron has done anything like that(URC) they are not compatible and you don't get access to the full lutron line of options. I would use the RR2 and integrate it into the AMX if possible or by 3rd party. Otherwise you will be married to and limited to what AMX has to offer in terms of dimming options.


----------



## yetis

spiwrx said:


> I can't speak for AMX but I know any other time Lutron has done anything like that(URC) they are not compatible and you don't get access to the full lutron line of options. I would use the RR2 and integrate it into the AMX if possible or by 3rd party. Otherwise you will be married to and limited to what AMX has to offer in terms of dimming options.



Yes, I think you could be correct. They seem to have their own version of wireless.

http://www.amx.com/products/NXB-CCG.asp. While in the same breath, say its clear connect enabled... You don't see them using any of the Lutron wireless links, Grafik Eye, etc. 

This seems to suggest something unique. 
" The AMX Clear Connect Wireless Gateway connects NetLinx Controllers with Lutron's Clear Connect Dimmers, Switches, Occupancy/Vacancy Sensors and Keypads that are sold by AMX*"

Sort of a PITA, as their offering is very limited.


----------



## schalliol

Yeah, Maestro Wireless uses the same tech but are intentionally incompatible. So, it could go either way


----------



## spiwrx

yetis said:


> Yes, I think you could be correct. They seem to have their own version of wireless.


FWIW, I see or hear from a lot of people that will go Control4, URC, etc.. and all of a sudden they need a special dimmer that that company doesn't offer and they're stuck because they've invested heavily in that system. RR2 does have some limitations but for the cost, ease and breadth of product I would rather recommend integrating with the 3rd parties rather than getting stuck with them. A lot of those companies main focus is not in lighting control and if you have the option to integrate I think it makes more sense to do so and not be locked down.


----------



## J_P_A

I've just installed my first set of RA2 dimmers for my home theater, and I have one that does not seem to be working properly. It is a RRD-6D dimmer that I have connected to an MLV transformer for powering and dimming some LED strip lights. I currently do not have the LEDs connected, only the dimmer connected to the transformer. The LED status lights on the dimmer flash on and off, and the transformer is giving no signs that it is powered on. The indicating lights turn on, turn off, turn on and then fade a bit before turning back off, then it repeats, seemingly indefinitely.

Is this a sign or a bad dimmer, or is there something else going on?


----------



## spearce

Has anyone tried using a 2 button pico as a toe activated switch?
(Turned on its side up against a cabinet toe kick, so you can "poke" it with a big toe.)

I am planning a RadioRA2 install and realized the lights over the kitchen sink drive me crazy. The switch is several steps away from the sink and it never fails that my hands are a wet mess when I realize its dark and want light.

I could replace the switch with a RRD-6CL, and put a pico on a pedestal on the counter. Then its no steps.

But maybe... I could make it hands-free with a gentle toe kick to a pico mounted on its side, glued in with a 3M command strip.


----------



## schalliol

For the 6D, is there enough load with the transformer and no fixture?

I like the toe kick idea! A single button Pico (that doesn't exist) would be preferred though). Maybe two two buttons with each of the two on one Pico having on or each having off.


----------



## intake

Why not just do an occupancy sensor? I like the Pico idea, but I'm guessing it will be more cumbersome than you think and if it's on a hard floor, it will probably get damaged by the mop. Occupancy sensor can be aimed just at your sink area. The LRF2-OCR2B-P-WH is surprising cheap and accessible on Amazon.


----------



## spearce

intake said:


> Why not just do an occupancy sensor? I like the Pico idea, but I'm guessing it will be more cumbersome than you think and if it's on a hard floor, it will probably get damaged by the mop.


Maybe so, but the two button pico has a list price of $58. If I mount it just above the floor its probably going to be fine for several years. If it fails, it was only ~$58. 



intake said:


> Occupancy sensor can be aimed just at your sink area. The LRF2-OCR2B-P-WH is surprising cheap and accessible on Amazon.


Oh, cute. Walk up to sink, its on, walk away, its off. Haha!

This may not work well in my kitchen. The cone would have to be very narrow to get to the sink only and not pick up foot traffic on the other side of the sink (its in a high traffic peninsula).

I also get pretty good daylight, so most of the day we don't really need the overheads. During the day I only want them on briefly if I am scrubbing a pan and want to make sure I got it clean. At night, I often but don't always want them on when I am at the sink. For example loading the dishwasher with late night snack items doesn't need the overheads, the dishwasher has its own internal LEDs that are sufficient for adding a couple of glasses and snack dishes before running its program. And I especially don't want them on during that late night loading, as I am heading to bed and already spent some time adjusting to darkened rooms.

I think if I do put a sensor in, I would just run it as a vacancy sensor for the kitchen.


----------



## spiwrx

J_P_A said:


> Is this a sign or a bad dimmer, or is there something else going on?


This is just a sign of not enough load. You'll need 50watt minimum, or a bit more if you want to keep it dimmed low... If you continue to have problems or cannot come up to min, load requirements, switch to a 6NA or add a hidden/dummy load.


----------



## spiwrx

spearce said:


> Has anyone tried using a 2 button pico as a toe activated switch?
> (Turned on its side up against a cabinet toe kick, so you can "poke" it with a big toe.)...
> 
> ....But maybe... I could make it hands-free with a gentle toe kick to a pico mounted on its side, glued in with a 3M command strip.


I love this idea, I don't know how crafty you are but creating some wood levers to not only make a larger target but also create a mechanical limit as to not destroy the pico might be an idea. Anyone handy with a #D printer yet, might be a neat project

_& Please don't pay $58 for a Pico email me: [paul (at) Hankselectric (dot) net], _


----------



## schalliol

I haven't used the daylight sensors with occupancy sensors. Do the daylight sensors work with RR2? They would be a candidate.

One more idea, a low-mounted occupancy sensor, vs a ceiling mount! How about putting one inside a cabinet door with a "hole" for the sensor to see directionally out in front?


----------



## schalliol

schalliol said:


> I haven't used the daylight sensors with occupancy sensors. Do the daylight sensors work with RR2? They would be a candidate.
> 
> One more idea, a low-mounted occupancy sensor, vs a ceiling mount! How about putting one inside a cabinet door with a "hole" for the sensor to see directionally out in front?


Apparently the daylight package is required, which is much more complex. Anyone used one?
Lutron Daylight and RR2


----------



## wkearney99

The RA2 sensors I've used have a setting on them to detect whether there's enough light or not. Got one on the front porch (up on the ceiling, well protected) and that setting keeps it from enabling the lights when there's already enough daylight.

As for the Pico idea, why not use a contact closure input on the VCRX instead? Sure, it'll cost a bit more, but then you can use any number of safer or more durable switches positioned where ever you need.

Personally, I don't like automatic control for lighting in most situations. Especially not for a high traffic area or a place whose lighting might vary depending on the tasks. Sometimes you want the lights on high even when there's enough other lighting, to better illuminate whatever it is you're trying to do. Automation is cool and all, but done wrong it can really be annoying. If not to you, to the wife...


----------



## fuzzy bee

Quick question that may have been answered in this thread, but I can't find it if it was:

I'm interested in picking up a RR-VCRX-WH to integrate our cars' HomeLink controllers with another automation system. Will this work out-of-the box, or do I have to have a Lutron controller in addition? Also, will I need to have a Lutron visor controller to program the VCRX, or will I be able to just handle the programming from my cars' built-in controllers?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## wkearney99

What is it you expect to integrate with? It's likely you'll also need a main repeater, as that would handle the RA2 wireless connection from the VCRX to a wired Ethernet connection.


----------



## fuzzy bee

I was planning on just taking the contact closure outputs of the VCRX to digital inputs of a Crestron system.


----------



## spiwrx

fuzzy bee said:


> Quick question that may have been answered in this thread, but I can't find it if it was:
> 
> I'm interested in picking up a RR-VCRX-WH to integrate our cars' HomeLink controllers with another automation system. Will this work out-of-the box, or do I have to have a Lutron controller in addition? Also, will I need to have a Lutron visor controller to program the VCRX, or will I be able to just handle the programming from my cars' built-in controllers?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


The VCRX should work "out of the box" and if it is a "Homelink" you should be good to go without using one of Lutrons Transmitters. You can manually set it up for the Homelink to operate the CCO(s). Sometimes without a main repeater you may notice a delay on other components, but in this case the RF portion is actually unique between the VCRX and transmitter. 

I would follow to add that I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to do the same thing a lot cheaper, though they may not be "homelink" enabled...


----------



## fuzzy bee

spiwrx said:


> The VCRX should work "out of the box" and if it is a "Homelink" you should be good to go without using one of Lutrons Transmitters. You can manually set it up for the Homelink to operate the CCO(s). Sometimes without a main repeater you may notice a delay on other components, but in this case the RF portion is actually unique between the VCRX and transmitter.
> 
> I would follow to add that I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to do the same thing a lot cheaper, though they may not be "homelink" enabled...


Thanks for the response. What were you thinking about with the "plenty of other ways to do the same thing a lot cheaper"?


----------



## spiwrx

There are plenty of simple key fob based contact closures out there, most of them around $20 if you just need simple contact closure. If you have to use the "Homelink" then you may be more limited. 

I'm not endorsing this link or company, just an example/first google hit. (_there's less expensive ones out there. I've used some of Rentron's kits for extreme distances in the past, but not all are FCC "legal") _
Just need to add a simple 12vdc power supply for 110v use. 
http://www.carhidkits.com/wireless-controller-2-zone-12v-dc-6a-remote-control-transmitter-432.html


----------



## fuzzy bee

spiwrx said:


> There are plenty of simple key fob based contact closures out there, most of them around $20 if you just need simple contact closure. If you have to use the "Homelink" then you may be more limited.
> 
> I'm not endorsing this link or company, just an example/first google hit. (_there's less expensive ones out there. I've used some of Rentron's kits for extreme distances in the past, but not all are FCC "legal") _
> Just need to add a simple 12vdc power supply for 110v use.
> http://www.carhidkits.com/wireless-controller-2-zone-12v-dc-6a-remote-control-transmitter-432.html


Thanks again. I'll probably stick with the Lutron piece, because we're already sporting 2 fobs each on our keychain.


----------



## rapamatic

fuzzy bee said:


> Thanks again. I'll probably stick with the Lutron piece, because we're already sporting 2 fobs each on our keychain.


Something like this, for $70 (and I bet you could find it cheaper if you look around) looks like a simple homelink receiver with a contact closure... It comes with a remote, but that is just for programming, it would work with the homelink in your car.

http://www.waynedaltonparts.com/Homelink-Conversion-Kit-1.html


----------



## fuzzy bee

rapamatic said:


> Something like this, for $70 (and I bet you could find it cheaper if you look around) looks like a simple homelink receiver with a contact closure... It comes with a remote, but that is just for programming, it would work with the homelink in your car.
> 
> http://www.waynedaltonparts.com/Homelink-Conversion-Kit-1.html


Nice! I hadn't thought to look at other manufacturers. Thanks!


----------



## rapamatic

fuzzy bee said:


> Nice! I hadn't thought to look at other manufacturers. Thanks!


To be honest, since most anything today is homelink compatible, I bet you could walk into a home depot or Lowes and get a similar kit - it would be sold as a universal wireless kit or something like that for a garage door opener... I bet Amazon would have this for a good price too.


----------



## A&M 350Z

Are the RadioRa2 digital switches really more expensive than the dimmers? Everyone one I have received a quote from has the RRD-8S significantly more expensive than the RRD-6CL dimmer. Maybe it is because it is dual voltage? Have a bunch of lights that don't really need a dimmer, example outdoor house and patio but are dimmable if it is a cheaper option. Some locations don't have a neutral wire and I am not concerned about wattage minimum so I was gonna go with the 8S switches. Any suggestions?

Thanks


----------



## jautor

A&M 350Z said:


> Are the RadioRa2 digital switches really more expensive than the dimmers? Everyone one I have received a quote from has the RRD-8S significantly more expensive than the RRD-6CL dimmer. Maybe it is because it is dual voltage? Have a bunch of lights that don't really need a dimmer, example outdoor house and patio but are dimmable if it is a cheaper option. Some locations don't have a neutral wire and I am not concerned about wattage minimum so I was gonna go with the 8S switches. Any suggestions?


Do you need the dual voltage support? If not, use the RRD-8ANS as long as you have a neutral. But for locations without neutral that CAN be dimmed and meet the load minimums, use the -6CL... The -8ANS is the same MSRP as the -6CL.

Jeff


----------



## A&M 350Z

jautor said:


> Do you need the dual voltage support? If not, use the RRD-8ANS as long as you have a neutral. But for locations without neutral that CAN be dimmed and meet the load minimums, use the -6CL... The -8ANS is the same MSRP as the -6CL.
> 
> Jeff


Ok, thanks. Do not need dual voltage so will use the 8ans or 6cl when can be dimmed. I assumed switches would be a little less expensive than the dimmers.

One other question. When replacing a standard 3 way switch with a dimmable load, due I just use 1 dimmer such as 6cl and 1 remote dimmer at the second switch? Does it matter the location of the dimmer vs remote dimmer? (EDIT: I see dimmer must be installed on load side but still confused how to replace 3 way switch). The traveler wire would be connected to the blue screw correct?

Thanks again.


----------



## wkearney99

The dimmer goes in the location that has the load wires leading to the lighting. Take that into consideration. You can use a dimmer with multiple remote dimmers. I've got one with three (outside floodlights). Same thing with the switch. 

Who's doing your lighting plan? There's a lot to lighting that bears having advice. I'm well acquainted with all this gear but the time I paid to have a lighting consultant do a walk-through was WELL worth it. We tweaked placement of a few fixtures, add/omitted some and she even caught the fact the electrical sub had installed all the wrong cans. So give it some thought.

That and where are you planning on putting keypads? With automated lighting they're definitely worthwhile.


----------



## A&M 350Z

wkearney99 said:


> The dimmer goes in the location that has the load wires leading to the lighting. Take that into consideration. You can use a dimmer with multiple remote dimmers. I've got one with three (outside floodlights). Same thing with the switch.
> 
> Who's doing your lighting plan? There's a lot to lighting that bears having advice. I'm well acquainted with all this gear but the time I paid to have a lighting consultant do a walk-through was WELL worth it. We tweaked placement of a few fixtures, add/omitted some and she even caught the fact the electrical sub had installed all the wrong cans. So give it some thought.
> 
> That and where are you planning on putting keypads? With automated lighting they're definitely worthwhile.


Got it. I think I was confused because on the Lutron sight it says a 3-way switch is not compatible with multiple location dimming. I guess they mean a dimmer and regular switch on the same line. You must replace the 3 way switches with dimmer and remote dimmer. Location makes sense.

This is a simple retrofit, basically replacing mostly standard Maestro dimmers and a few switches with RadioRa2 products. Would definitely use lighting consultant on larger project. 

Yes, we will use keypads, starting with 3 hybrid at common locations.


----------



## wkearney99

The lighting load is controlled either by a switch or a dimmer. Either can have a remote connected. Technically I think you can use remote switches on dimmers and vice versa. Obviously you'd lose any dimmer control at that location if you used a remote switch on it. But, suffice to say, don't do that nor expect it to actually work. Use the right combination. 

When using keypads I'm of the opinion it's a good plan to not depend on using ONLY a keypad when the location is a primary entry to a space. As in, having a paddle switch to avoid making for added effort trying to determine which tiny little keypad button to press. There's no 'rule' that says this is required, just some advice I think worth passing along. I do have two locations where a keypad is the only device; one is on the kitchen island backsplash, the other is a bedroom. On the island it works because it's not the primary lighting control for the room. In the bedroom, however, it's a mistake. Unfortunately the segment of wall at that location prevented using a 3-gang box. I need one of them for fan control, so I had to use the other position for a hybrid. I'm in the process of rectifying this by moving the fan control to a remote location and using the keypad buttons to control it's speed. This will give me back the 2nd location to use for the primary room lighting. Darned shame they don't make a RA2 canopy fan control...


----------



## dgage

Here is an example of a main switch with a keypad in the kitchen. Makes it easy to control the main light and then the keypad is the same around the room (3 hybrid keypads around kitchen). The main switch and top button of the keypad control the same lights so no fumbling for a keypad button in he dark. Since this is a hybrid keypad, I was able to work around bad wiring locations and control loads while still having access to those lights from any of the 3 keypads. In other words, by using the hybrid keypads, I was able to save money and clean up effort as I would have otherwise had to run some additional wires to get 3-ways correct like I wanted them. Hybrid keypads saved that hassle; looks and works so much better.


----------



## wkearney99

Yes, and also consider you can use a keypad (only) instead of a remote device. It's not actually wired as part of the circuit, it's just the keypad sending an RF command to the circuit's dimmer. Or use a hybrid for something else wired through there and not use any of it's buttons to control the load. I've got one set up that way because the electrician wired the floodlight load to someplace I don't want to use for controlling it. A keypad elsewhere (and the remote dimmers) control the floods. The hybrid's just doing the load control while the buttons control other stuff (ceiling fan, scenes).

I may swap out another remote dimmer with a keypad to open up some more button options.


----------



## A&M 350Z

Thanks guys, good tips. Since it is a retrofit, I think I will have to use they keypads to control some loads. Otherwise, would have to expand every junction box and some are already 3 gang. 

What would you guys suggest I do with my master bedroom which has a 2 gang with 1 dimmer for recessed and a dual dimmer for fan and seperate chandelier? Expand to 3 gang with hybrid, dimmer and fan control?

dgage, are those the temporary stickers on the keypad?


----------



## wkearney99

That's pretty much the same problem I have in a bedroom. 2 gang and needing 3 devices.

The RA2 fan control requires 1 gang. No combo fan/light exists (unfortunately). It controls only the fan, not the light. So there needs to be another device 'somewhere' to control one of them (fan, fan light or recessed lights). Lutron does make a junction-box connectable device, the RF softswitch (whose part# escapes me). I chose not to use this as I need buttons, not local fan control.

My plan is to use a dimmer for the recessed lights and then hybrid to control the fan and it's light. The 5 buttons on it would be:

[Fan Light] (toggle)
[Fan High] (scene)
[Fan Med] (scene)
[Fan Low] (scene)
[All Off] (scene)

This way anyone expecting to be able to choose a fan speed will have that option. The fan controller itself will get mounted elsewhere, in my case up in the attic.

In your case you'd likely want to consider adding a 3rd position to that box, or another box adjacent to it. It'd depend on the


----------



## dgage

A&M 350Z said:


> dgage, are those the temporary stickers on the keypad?


Are you saying they don't look perfect? Yes...they are indeed printed labels stuck on there. I keep meaning to get them laser engraved but I haven't bought motorized shades yet. Once I do that, I'll be 100% done and will get laser engraving done then. But it still looks professional but looking at the up close picture, it looks like I could have done better. 

Oh yeah...it gave me time to figure out I want to rename the down light to island. So good idea for initial deployment maybe before engraving makes it permanent.


----------



## wkearney99

heh, I still haven't even put sticker on. I really DO need to get some of the ones at the patio door labeled...


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## jautor

wkearney99 said:


> heh, I still haven't even put sticker on. I really DO need to get some of the ones at the patio door labeled...


I just put some stickers on as I had guests staying for a week, and well, even I don't remember which buttons do what - since I just haven't finished playing with them yet. Lutron's advice to live with these systems "for a few months" before ordering the custom engraving is very, very good advice indeed!


----------



## wkearney99

jautor said:


> Lutron's advice to live with these systems "for a few months" before ordering the custom engraving is very, very good advice indeed!


I totally agree. I've made at least 50 edits to the programming since we moved in last Fall. Including the addition of several keypads as replacements for a few dimmers. I'm still not really make much use of "scenes" though. That is, in the "set a mood" sense. I suppose that'll become more likely when we do the theater later this year. But other than the dining room there's not been too many situations where the way we use the space would benefit from having dedicated scene settings. But I do have various lights grouped together, but that's usually for an "Area Off" or an "All Off". 

Once I get off the fence and get an automation system going I suspect there will be more opportunity for scene-like coordination.


----------



## spearce

spearce said:


> Has anyone tried using a 2 button pico as a toe activated switch?
> (Turned on its side up against a cabinet toe kick, so you can "poke" it with a big toe.)


I received the 2 button pico today and set it up horizontally on the toe-kick using a 3M command strip.
Of course it works to control the light.

We are a barefoot household, so I can find it with my toe. However I had to put it right on the edge of a chunk of trim, as finding the left "on" key is harder than I expected. So I find the trim as a target and then follow onto the pico so I can toe it on.

On had to be programmed with a fade of 0 seconds, otherwise you aren't sure if you hit the pico or not. You can almost feel the key travel, but not a lot.

Off was programmed with a fade of 1 second. I still wanted the fade there, but 2 seconds was too long of a delay getting visual feedback that you actually activated the switch.

The nightlight on the pico is not strong enough to be visible in the dark room. I had hoped it would cast a little bit of light onto the floor to show its location, but the battery and LED just aren't up to the task.


----------



## A&M 350Z

Has anyone compared the rrd-6cl and 6na directly? I have a few led and incandescent loads that do not completly dim and wondering if it is the 50 watt minimum of the 6cl that is the problem. Specifically, I have 6 recessed leds that have the "pop on" effect but that may just be the bulbs. I have a second zone that has 3 75 watt incandescents that do not dim completly with the 6cl. Thinking of trying a 6na instead.


----------



## jautor

A&M 350Z said:


> Has anyone compared the rrd-6cl and 6na directly? I have a few led and incandescent loads that do not completly dim and wondering if it is the 50 watt minimum of the 6cl that is the problem. Specifically, I have 6 recessed leds that have the "pop on" effect but that may just be the bulbs. I have a second zone that has 3 75 watt incandescents that do not dim completly with the 6cl. Thinking of trying a 6na instead.


You'll certainly hit the minimum load issue with incandescent loads on the 6CL - I misread the specs when I bought a few and ran into that. Luckily I was able to shuffle them around and use 6NA's where I needed the low-minimum. I had a nice *whew* moment with my under-cabinet lights as they didn't dim due to the load - they are halogen fixtures and they were on the "low" setting as full brightness was too bright when used with a switch. But changing them to "high" obviously increases the load presented, so then they'd dim correctly - and I just have them set at a lower-than-"low" setting anyway...

Jeff


----------



## A&M 350Z

Hmm, think I will just buy a few 6na's and just play around to see which works better.


----------



## A&M 350Z

Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.


Thanks.


----------



## schalliol

A&M 350Z said:


> Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.


You can't do that. Also, the RD is a lot cheaper than the CL, but I suppose you know that.

I suppose it would be neat if they came up with a way to make a RD-RD that communicated with the repeater(s) directly to show the level. Another thing that would be interesting about something like this is that it could be like a pico (in that it doesn't have to be wired into anything) but in this case it could receive power for the LEDs and work for toggling vs 1-button presets. In fact you'd just wire the dimmer like a single pole since everything could communicate through the repeater.


----------



## spiwrx

A&M 350Z said:


> Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.
> 
> 
> Thanks.


If you want to move whatever the RD is wired to, to this location you could. Depending on the dimmer and load. Worst case you would just have to replace the previous main dimmer location with a Pico or keypad. In some cases you can swap the main dimmer and RD location (non-neutral connected dimmers only)


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> Worst case you would just have to replace the previous main dimmer location with a Pico or keypad. In some cases you can swap the main dimmer and RD location (non-neutral connected dimmers only)


While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.


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## schalliol

I have 1 10D (new) and 7 short-term used 6D units that I don't need. Would anyone be interested in:

Buying the 10D for $99 *shipped* (USA, extra other places);
Buying the 6Ds for $60 ea or $50 ea. for 5+ *shipped* (USA, extra other places); or
Swapping (up to a few) 6Ds for any 8ANS you'd like to have dim?
Just thought as shown in previous threads people have liked deals like these, but I'm happy to go elsewhere.


----------



## rapamatic

schalliol said:


> While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.


I broke many 3-Ways when putting in dimmers... its generally no problem - just make sure you trace the wires so you know what goes where... I would think the only place you could run into an issue would be with a really unusual 3-way wiring setup...


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## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.



3-way is a great option for a keypad, 4-way you need to carefully trace the wiring but definitely possible. Just have to remember you need to get 120vac to a keypad so depending on your wiring, you may have to reconfigure one of the travelers back to a neutral at the main location. 

There seems to be a lot of resistance to using pico's as keypads for this, but this is a great application (no wiring). And with 10yr (estimated) battery life I think that's not such a bad deal. Especially for most of them being less than $20.


----------



## spiwrx

FYI, for those of you that haven't figured it out yet the Pico (since 7.2 apparently) can now be configured to operate the CCO's on the VCRX. This was lacking prior and since the buttons are so tiny on the VCRX this makes a great simple & cheap add-on as a garage door opener button in the garage. Please take a minute to play with the programming as if you are doing multiple circuits on 1 pico you may want to un-check some of the default settings.


----------



## yetis

So I have an issue with an antiquated HVAC control system and damper control . According to the products specs for the Lutron LR-HWLV-HVAC TouchPRO Wireless Thermostat, it supports multi zone damper control. What I cannot find is 1) what brand, Aprilaire or Jackson's systems? 2) How does the zone control wire into the Lutron HVAC control system? Cannot find mention in any of the resource docs, but marketing says it should work. 

Really need this to work, as current thermostat system is 30 years old and without a wireless option, will need to rewire it all! 

Thank you


----------



## dgage

spiwrx said:


> Please take a minute to play with the programming as if you are doing multiple circuits on 1 pico you may want to un-check some of the default settings.


Outstanding and useful info Paul as that would come in very handy in my garage. 

But can you expand on what you mean by a Pico handling multiple circuits? I thought you could only use a Pico on one load, which annoyed me when I first got one as I wanted the middle button to control a different light. Ended up using my CQC home automation software to do what I wanted. Thanks.


----------



## spearce

dgage said:


> Outstanding and useful info Paul as that would come in very handy in my garage.
> 
> But can you expand on what you mean by a Pico handling multiple circuits? I thought you could only use a Pico on one load, which annoyed me when I first got one as I wanted the middle button to control a different light. Ended up using my CQC home automation software to do what I wanted. Thanks.


When you are programming the Pico there is a small checkbox on the left side panel where it shows a picture of the Pico. Uncheck that box and the buttons will be split, allowing you to assign anything to each button.

Raise/lower are special, they operate as a pair. But you can assign raise/lower a different set of loads then the on/off and the middle button (assuming the 3BRL pico).


----------



## dgage

spearce said:


> When you are programming the Pico there is a small checkbox on the left side panel where it shows a picture of the Pico. Uncheck that box and the buttons will be split, allowing you to assign anything to each button.
> 
> Raise/lower are special, they operate as a pair. But you can assign raise/lower a different set of loads then the on/off and the middle button (assuming the 3BRL pico).


DAMMIT! How did I miss that? Has that always been there? I may need to go back to older versions to see if that option has always been there.

But thank you, THANK YOU! Addresses an issue I used my HA system to address which apparently I didn't need to and can get rid of some unnecessary latency.


----------



## dgage

Well I take it back somewhat...it doesn't quite do what I want it to do but gets closer.

For these particular Pico remotes, I have them on either side of the bed in our master bedroom. I want all of the buttons to control the master bedroom lights EXCEPT I want the center circle button to toggle a master bathroom nightlight. It looks like I can get the center circle button to turn the light on but not be a toggle to also turn the light off. Am I missing something or is this use case not supported by the RadioRa2 software?


----------



## spearce

dgage said:


> Well I take it back somewhat...it doesn't quite do what I want it to do but gets closer.
> 
> For these particular Pico remotes, I have them on either side of the bed in our master bedroom. I want all of the buttons to control the master bedroom lights EXCEPT I want the center circle button to toggle a master bathroom nightlight. It looks like I can get the center circle button to turn the light on but not be a toggle to also turn the light off. Am I missing something or is this use case not supported by the RadioRa2 software?


No it can't be a toggle. The only mode for lighting is a scene, which is not a toggle.


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## dgage

spearce said:


> No it can't be a toggle. The only mode for lighting is a scene, which is not a toggle.


Thanks for the info and verifying. I did move control of all of the other buttons back to RadioRa2 thanks to your help. I'll use my HA software for the center circle button.

Does anyone have a contact at Lutron that we might request the ability to setup a toggle for this use case? 

Thanks again...better than it was but not as good as it could be.


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## schalliol

dgage said:


> DAMMIT! How did I miss that? Has that always been there? I may need to go back to older versions to see if that option has always been there.
> 
> But thank you, THANK YOU! Addresses an issue I used my HA system to address which apparently I didn't need to and can get rid of some unnecessary latency.


Hasn't always been there. I think last fall/winter there was a change to allow the "unchanged" option.


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## schalliol

Can you install an 8ANS to switch a receptacle under the NEC? I know you need a receptacle for dimming use if you want to dim a lamp from a switched receptacle (also requires you to change the plug on the lamp) and a switch isn't a problem by default. However, the power handling of the switch might be a problem.

Since the 8ANS is only 8A handling, can you use it to switch something that's less than 8A? Because there is a potential someone could plug-in something requiring more power than 8A, I wasn't sure if it would be allowed. All this said, anyone could easily overload a circuit if they plugged in multiple 15A devices into varying outlets, so it's unclear to me. Thanks!


----------



## markrubin

question re Silvio QS cellular shades

One shade is giving me some trouble: wonder if anyone has seen this:

the shade now stops at an upper limit approx 85% open Vs the program setting of 100%:

if I use the program to adjust the shade to full open 100%, and reset the upper limit, it still only goes to 85%: it is not a programming issue:

one of the end caps of the shade came loose and I think that tripped a setting in the shade itself. I am thinking I need to default the shade to factory settings but it says that does not affest upper and lower limits

any other ideas?

edit: there was a flashing error code on the shade too: 
Lutron customer service gave me a ticket number so I can get a replacement shade under warranty through my dealer 

tia


----------



## spiwrx

dgage said:


> Outstanding and useful info Paul as that would come in very handy in my garage.
> 
> But can you expand on what you mean by a Pico handling multiple circuits? I thought you could only use a Pico on one load, which annoyed me when I first got one as I wanted the middle button to control a different light. Ended up using my CQC home automation software to do what I wanted. Thanks.


Yes and one last thing is the Pico only gives you "Scene" programming. You cannot Toggle a load from one button, or at least I haven't seen how this is possible yet.


----------



## dgage

spiwrx said:


> Yes and one last thing is the Pico only gives you "Scene" programming. You cannot Toggle a load from one button, or at least I haven't seen how this is possible yet.


Do you (or anyone) happen to know how I might request that feature? Thanks.


----------



## spiwrx

dgage said:


> Do you (or anyone) happen to know how I might request that feature? Thanks.


You should try in Lutron's own forum:
https://forums.lutron.com/forumdisplay.php/32-RadioRA-2

That forum is relatively young compared to this thread. But it's growing quickly. Lutron also heavily police's that thread so any mention of 3rd party equipment is usually pulled.


----------



## dgage

spiwrx said:


> You should try in Lutron's own forum:
> https://forums.lutron.com/forumdisplay.php/32-RadioRA-2
> 
> That forum is relatively young compared to this thread. But it's growing quickly. Lutron also heavily police's that thread so any mention of 3rd party equipment is usually pulled.


Thanks for the heads up...I joined and added my request to a feature request post.


----------



## Ramias

Does anybody have a good source where I can buy Sivoia QS shades (or whatever they are called) that work with RA2?



I can install and program them myself. I don't need a decorator to come to my home.



I just need a place to buy them from. Looking to get the motorized drape/curtain system. I may buy my drape fabric elsewhere or I may buy Lutron.



Thanks



Sent from my Venue 8 Pro 5830 using Tapatalk


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## tritium6

Hi. Can anyone tell me if an RD-RD can be used to control a scene? Or is it paired only to a specific dimmer?


----------



## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> Hi. Can anyone tell me if an RD-RD can be used to control a scene? Or is it paired only to a specific dimmer?


An RD-RD is wired to an existing dimmer, and has no clear connect or dimming circuitry inside. It's basically just a way to remotely press the buttons on the dimmer it is connected to. So it can only control the load on the dimmer it is connected to. It cannot dim or activate a scene (unless Lutron changes something to allow dimmers to activate scenes/other loads).


----------



## tritium6

rapamatic said:


> An RD-RD is wired to an existing dimmer, and has no clear connect or dimming circuitry inside. It's basically just a way to remotely press the buttons on the dimmer it is connected to. So it can only control the load on the dimmer it is connected to. It cannot dim or activate a scene (unless Lutron changes something to allow dimmers to activate scenes/other loads).


Thanks. So if I want to dim remotely without a traveller, my choices are a keypad or a Pico? Any other option?


----------



## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> Thanks. So if I want to dim remotely without a traveller, my choices are a keypad or a Pico? Any other option?


Yeah, that's pretty much it (other than software controls like the lutron iphone app or third party like CQC)...

picos are pretty flexible - they can be wall mounted with a faceplate, put on a pedestal, etc..

You can also use a tabletop keypad if you don't want something on the wall...

what are you trying to accomplish?


----------



## Foos-Man

Are the button mechanics the same between dimmers and switches (ex: RRD-6CL versus RRD-8ANS)? The dimmers operate with 1-click or 2-click operation for on/off, is the switch a typical paddle/rocker switch for on/off operation?


----------



## rapamatic

Foos-Man said:


> Are the button mechanics the same between dimmers and switches (ex: RRD-6CL versus RRD-8ANS)? The dimmers operate with 1-click or 2-click operation for on/off, is the switch a typical paddle/rocker switch for on/off operation?


The switch looks and operates just like the dimmers, except it is either on or off. It is not a rocker switch. Because it can be controlled remotely, a rocker switch wouldn't really make sense. There is a single LED on the left side of the switch (as opposed to the multiple LEDs on the dimmer) that is on when the load is on, and off when it is off. More info below.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-225_English.pdf


----------



## thekidceo

A&M 350Z said:


> Are the RadioRa2 digital switches really more expensive than the dimmers? Everyone one I have received a quote from has the RRD-8S significantly more expensive than the RRD-6CL dimmer. Maybe it is because it is dual voltage? Have a bunch of lights that don't really need a dimmer, example outdoor house and patio but are dimmable if it is a cheaper option. Some locations don't have a neutral wire and I am not concerned about wattage minimum so I was gonna go with the 8S switches. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks


Yes that's definitely true. Essentially the 6CL (and the 6D that it's more or less designed to replace), the 8ANS (8A neutral wire switch), and 3LD/3PD (plug-in lamp dimmers) list at $149, and the rest (6NA, F6AN-DV, 8S-DV, 10D, 10ND, and 2ANF) list at $199. Part of it might be the fact it's dual-voltage, but I highly suspect the difference in price is mainly based on demand. They sell way more 6CLs than 8S-DVs, so they can make larger volumes of them for cheaper. It's the same with theirs Sivoia QS shades, where the Monaco line is about $200-$450 less per shade than the Rio line, yet the shades are the exact same in every way besides color choices: Monaco is the most common (read: neutral) colors, and Rio is the more bold colors and less-commonly ordered neutral colors.

Anyway, if you want just a switch but don't have a neutral wire and don't want to spend an extra $50 per switch on the dual-voltage option, I'd buy the 6CLs and take advantage of a little-known option the dimmers have: you can actually program a dimmer to operate as an on/off switch and disable dimming, either through the Essentials/Inclusive software or in Advanced Programming Mode.

If you'd like me to explain how to do that I'd be more than happy to. Or if you have any other Lutron-related questions, I'm glad to help as well. I just joined the forum, but I'm a Lutron PSP and RadioRA 2 Level 2 integrator with a Full Residential Shade Qualification, so I know my stuff  haha.

- Edwin


----------



## schalliol

thekidceo said:


> Yes that's definitely true. Essentially the 6CL (and the 6D that it's more or less designed to replace), the 8ANS (8A neutral wire switch), and 3LD/3PD (plug-in lamp dimmers) list at $149, and the rest (6NA, F6AN-DV, 8S-DV, 10D, 10ND, and 2ANF) list at $199. Part of it might be the fact it's dual-voltage, but I highly suspect the difference in price is mainly based on demand. They sell way more 6CLs than 8S-DVs, so they can make larger volumes of them for cheaper. It's the same with theirs Sivoia QS shades, where the Monaco line is about $200-$450 less per shade than the Rio line, yet the shades are the exact same in every way besides color choices: Monaco is the most common (read: neutral) colors, and Rio is the more bold colors and less-commonly ordered neutral colors.
> 
> Anyway, if you want just a switch but don't have a neutral wire and don't want to spend an extra $50 per switch on the dual-voltage option, I'd buy the 6CLs and take advantage of a little-known option the dimmers have: you can actually program a dimmer to operate as an on/off switch and disable dimming, either through the Essentials/Inclusive software or in Advanced Programming Mode.
> 
> If you'd like me to explain how to do that I'd be more than happy to. Or if you have any other Lutron-related questions, I'm glad to help as well. I just joined the forum, but I'm a Lutron PSP and RadioRA 2 Level 2 integrator with a Full Residential Shade Qualification, so I know my stuff  haha.
> 
> - Edwin


Edwin, go ahead and explain it. Lutron told me you can change lamp dimmers to non-dimmed lighting and I know you can adjust the speed of turn on and off, but I don't believe you can truly make it like a switch and bypass the minimum load requirements.

For example a couple of LEDs on a 6D work okay to turn on and dim, but the LEDs can go wacky when the load is off. Thanks!


----------



## thekidceo

schalliol said:


> Edwin, go ahead and explain it. Lutron told me you can change lamp dimmers to non-dimmed lighting and I know you can adjust the speed of turn on and off, but I don't believe you can truly make it like a switch and bypass the minimum load requirements.
> 
> For example a couple of LEDs on a 6D work okay to turn on and dim, but the LEDs can go wacky when the load is off. Thanks!


You can definitely do that with lamp dimmers, but the Ra2 Advanced Programming Mode documentation suggests that you can also do it with dimmers (see 3-J on page 5, http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/048247.pdf). I've never actually used it, and so far I haven't been able to find the feature in the software on a second look (I thought it was in there but now I'm not seeing it).

Switches have their own minimum load requirements though, so whether it's a dimmer acting like a switch or an actual switch you'll still have that lower limit. What's really causing the LEDs to act wacky when you turn the switch off has nothing to do with whether you're using a dimmer or a switch: it's the lack of a neutral wire causing it. To properly dim LED lighting, the dimmer/switch needs to have a constant, direct connection to the AC power source regardless of the state of the load. The neutral wire ensures that the dimmer/switch has power to drive its own internal circuitry even when the load is disconnected or off, and it also provides a clean signal of the incoming AC power source for detection of zero-crossings and synchronization with the line. Both of these are essential to stable phase-controlled dimming, and the lack of a neutral wire is always the most likely culprit if you experience issues dimming or switching LEDs. That's why for most of our LED installations we only spec the 10ND dimmers and 8ANS switches; the rest just aren't reliable enough with 95% of LEDs (though we have had great experiences with the 6CL and the hybrid keypads on the EcoSmart 575L (which use Cree's TrueWhite LED driver) - smooth, wide dimming range, no buzzing, no popcorn effect, etc). Long story short I bet if you swap out that 6D with a 6ND you'll experience a lot fewer issues with the LEDs (same with swapping an 8S-DV for an 8ANS).

Let me know if this helps and if you have any other questions!


----------



## Sevenfeet

I'm not a newbie to AVSForum but I am new to this kind of home automation, having been introduced it by forum member WKearney99 (who is an old friend) and had the opportunity to see his Lutron-enabled house a few weeks ago (and months earlier when it was under construction).

I've been looking to doing some lighting control upgrades in my own home, but I don't have the luxury of a new home construction like my friend did to get everything right the first time (or most everything right!). My home is about 22 years old with mostly conventional switches installed by the builder. The exception are the Lutron dimmers and switches installed by my contractor 8 years ago as a part of my kitchen renovation.

I'm only now starting to realize the ups and downs of lighting design and some of the decisions I've been making over the years in my quest for energy efficiency (my wife is a sustainability PhD). So over the last several years I've been swapping incandescent bulbs for CFs (at first) and LEDs (now). I don't have dimmer switches in most of the house, but I saw the issues regarding modern dimming first hand with the kitchen lighting. I didn't know there were practical minimum load considerations that going to modern lighting might create.

I have 9 can lights on two circuits (split 7 and 2, total wattage about 585) At first, CF BR30 bulbs were so awful for the light they threw that we went half and half, keeping about 5 IC lights in the mix. What I didn't realize was that this was probably not the best thing for the dimmer to handle, even for the Lutron model in the wall. And CF dimmer bulbs weren't great at dimming anyway, doing it at different rates than the other lights. And CF dimming bulbs didn't last as long as I would have liked. We began replacing them with the Ecosmart/Cree kits from Home Depot about a year ago (one CF bulb remains that hasn't died yet). So that has evened out the weird load that the dimmer was seeing and given a more uniform pattern through the room. The total load on the first switch is about 87 watts, which is probably fine. But the second switch has only two lights and less than 30 watts on it, so I imagine that's probably under the load for what the dimmer is rated for. And it may be an issue if I wanted to replace them both with more modern choices from the Radio RA2 product line. The question is where and how do I start (I've been discussing this off-line with WKearney99 for a few weeks now).

One more note: I've been working with Cree's bulbs long enough to see that they are making running changes to the product to help compatibility. I tried installing two early model Cree 60w equiv LEB bulbs in a 10 year old Hunter ceiling fan with an RF fan control. The light came on and then began blinking like crazy. I removed the bulbs and would up installing them in a dining room chandelier with a 20 year old+ rotary dimmer with no problems. Later Cree bulbs in 60w, 75w and finally 100w equivs now work with this fan, without issues.


----------



## dgage

OK first 7', we have to get something important out of the way. Vols fan?  I'm in East TN but lived a few years in Nashville about...damn...10 years ago now.

I "know" Wkearney from the Cocoontech forums. My advice is to just pick a lighting and do it. The two primary choices I'd recommend would be UPB or Lutron RadioRa2 if we are talking DIY lighting. There's also Zwave but I don't recommend it as it isn't in the same league of reliability as the other two. There's been quite a bit of discussion over at Cocoontech recently so I'd recommend doing a search over there for UPB and RadioRa2. 

I have a 12 year old house and I'm sure they didn't use a lighting consultant.  The lighting control isn't bad but not perfect. I was remodeling my kitchen and it was the impetus for me choosing a lighting system, which as you can guess was RadioRa2. The primary reason I chose RadioRa2 was reliability, elegance, and selection of devices.

Now regarding dealing with lighting design issues, I had an issue when I redid my kitchen that the RadioRa2 system helped solve. As a part of the remodel, I put in an L-shaped island that extended into the breakfast nook. As a part of that, I wanted to have main lights, which we did with 8 recessed lights but I also wanted to have secondary pendants over the lighting. Well since I didn't have a breakfast nook anymore, I used that circuit (single switch) to drive the pendant lights. I talked to my friend who's an electrician as he was helping some and it was clear he didn't want to run wires to the other two locations and also recommended against having so many switches in the other locations. So I was able to use a Hybrid keypad in the Breakfast Nook and in the other locations I used a regular switch for the main kitchen lights and a Hybrid keypad for all of the other loads. So the very nice keypads were able to address my design needs. Might help give you some ideas for your situation.


----------



## spearce

Has anyone else noticed the hybrid keypad and seeTouch keypad have different mounting plate thicknesses, resulting in the devices not sitting evenly in the same Claro wallplate?

My kitchen has a 3-gang with H6BRL, W6BRL, 6CL in order (see attached image). The hybrid keypad in the left-most slot is slightly thicker than the seeTouch in the middle, so it raises up out of the wallplate more. Its also not exactly level due to the tile backsplash being uneven in height, I think its visible in the photo how the left edge is lower than the right edge.

Any suggestions on how to level this out and deal with the fact these devices have different thicknesses for the mounting brackets at their top and bottom?

The perfectionist in me would really like to have them more consistent within the wallplate.


----------



## Sevenfeet

dgage said:


> OK first 7', we have to get something important out of the way. Vols fan?  I'm in East TN but lived a few years in Nashville about...damn...10 years ago now.


I'm a middle TN native, but my sports allegiances are to Yale (where I played basketball) and Vanderbilt (where I went to grad school). Not a Vols fan (don't hate them either).



> I "know" Wkearney from the Cocoontech forums. My advice is to just pick a lighting and do it. The two primary choices I'd recommend would be UPB or Lutron RadioRa2 if we are talking DIY lighting. There's also Zwave but I don't recommend it as it isn't in the same league of reliability as the other two. There's been quite a bit of discussion over at Cocoontech recently so I'd recommend doing a search over there for UPB and RadioRa2.


And I've known Wkearney99 "in real life" for 25 years.  It's been nice getting his guidance on this since often many of us come into things like this from a theoretical approach having not seen this kind of lighting automation in a real home. I've seen what he's done and the decision process behind it. That is a huge learning advantage to me. And because of it, I can't see going to a different vendor unless there is just something someone else makes that I cannot do without. 



> I have a 12 year old house and I'm sure they didn't use a lighting consultant.  The lighting control isn't bad but not perfect. I was remodeling my kitchen and it was the impetus for me choosing a lighting system, which as you can guess was RadioRa2. The primary reason I chose RadioRa2 was reliability, elegance, and selection of devices.
> 
> Now regarding dealing with lighting design issues, I had an issue when I redid my kitchen that the RadioRa2 system helped solve. As a part of the remodel, I put in an L-shaped island that extended into the breakfast nook. As a part of that, I wanted to have main lights, which we did with 8 recessed lights but I also wanted to have secondary pendants over the lighting. Well since I didn't have a breakfast nook anymore, I used that circuit (single switch) to drive the pendant lights. I talked to my friend who's an electrician as he was helping some and it was clear he didn't want to run wires to the other two locations and also recommended against having so many switches in the other locations. So I was able to use a Hybrid keypad in the Breakfast Nook and in the other locations I used a regular switch for the main kitchen lights and a Hybrid keypad for all of the other loads. So the very nice keypads were able to address my design needs. Might help give you some ideas for your situation.


My kitchen would be a good place to start in that the wiring there is more modern than the rest of the house and there's already Lutron hardware to upgrade. I can see having a hybrid keypad or two control the 9 overhead cans, pendants, halogen lights at the bar/eating area, under cabinet lights (three switches)...everything but the garbage disposal (which doesn't need smart anything).

But from a practical family standpoint, I'm seeing the foyer of the house as a more needed upgrade point. The front door of the house is a three gang switch, one for outdoor floods, one for porch lanterns and the third for the foyer chandelier. I've heard of people putting dimmers on the outdoor lights, but I haven't heard a good reason why. (parties? halloween?) The foyer chandelier badly needs a dimmer since my son likes to 1) have his door open when he sleeps and 2) a light on outside his door. He has been known to wake up and turn the foyer chandelier on in the middle of the night. I would like to limit the brightness of the lamps.

But the chandelier has three different light switch controls (two downstairs, one upstairs) which I'm guessing is a 4-way application and I haven't opened up the gang to figure out which is the load point to put the master dimmer versus the accessory dimmers. The upstairs switch is a part of a two gang for another light at the top of the stairs that I would also love to dim and control since my son tends to turn that one on too.

The limiting factor right now (outside of the budget equation) is my quest to rid the house of as many incandescent lights as I can. I've been largely successful...there aren't many left. But I have to deal with Lutron hardware that hasn't been upgraded for LEDs in terms of hybrid pads (Wkearney99 solved this by not using CF or LED lamps). So while the current chandelier has about 100 watts of IC lights, my wife wants to kill this aging fixture and replace it; and when that happens, it will have LEDs with a lot lower wattage load. The new lamp fixture at the top of the stairs I just installed is only pulling a 19 watt load from the Crees I installed. While I'm sure that the current hybrid pads could cope with some of the choices I've made, it would be better that have hardware that was actually designed for the task.


----------



## dgage

Sevenfeet said:


> The limiting factor right now (outside of the budget equation) is my quest to rid the house of as many incandescent lights as I can. I've been largely successful...there aren't many left. But I have to deal with Lutron hardware that hasn't been upgraded for LEDs in terms of hybrid pads (Wkearney99 solved this by not using CF or LED lamps). So while the current chandelier has about 100 watts of IC lights, my wife wants to kill this aging fixture and replace it; and when that happens, it will have LEDs with a lot lower wattage load. The new lamp fixture at the top of the stairs I just installed is only pulling a 19 watt load from the Crees I installed. While I'm sure that the current hybrid pads could cope with some of the choices I've made, it would be better that have hardware that was actually designed for the task.


Good to know someone named Sevenfeet can actually ball.  I played pickup games all through college because I love to play the game but wasn't that good. 

Well it sounds like you've got a handle on the overall design, especially with wkearney's help.

Regarding the LEDs, I'm switching just about everything over to LED and even swapped out some of the enclosed fixtures since a lot of LEDs aren't suitable to a closed fixture due to heat. I haven't had any issues with LEDs, even running a pair of 4" pucks (8w ea) at only 42% as normal max. Then again, I made sure to purchase all neutral dimmers/switches, which might have helped. I think that's a key point, which is to check to see if you have neutral wires at every switch.

Good luck!


----------



## richardorser

*Lutron RRa2 on-line training*

Friends,
A RRa1 certified electrician installed my RRa2 equipment with the understanding that he would add all the RRa2 devices to the repeater, and I, the new home owner, would program the equipment after I completed the on-line RRa2 course.
So, I am wading through the course, but hope some kind soul here will answer some questions about the course.
Right now, I am in the part about designing a system using the software. My question is: Do I need to learn about the DESIGN portion of the software since all my devices are actually ALREADY INSTALLED. IOW, does one need to enter all the devices, room info., etc. into the design section before it will be available in the programming section? Or, can I skip to PROGRAMMING?
Thanks so much, Richard PS I apologize for not knowing how to start a new thread here.


----------



## dgage

richardorser said:


> Friends,
> A RRa1 certified electrician installed my RRa2 equipment with the understanding that he would add all the RRa2 devices to the repeater, and I, the new home owner, would program the equipment after I completed the on-line RRa2 course.
> So, I am wading through the course, but hope some kind soul here will answer some questions about the course.
> Right now, I am in the part about designing a system using the software. My question is: Do I need to learn about the DESIGN portion of the software since all my devices are actually ALREADY INSTALLED. IOW, does one need to enter all the devices, room info., etc. into the design section before it will be available in the programming section? Or, can I skip to PROGRAMMING?
> Thanks so much, Richard PS I apologize for not knowing how to start a new thread here.


Each step builds on the previous so you really need to understand each step. It doesn't take long and isn't that hard...but you will need to play with it some. So study up and you'll have it figured out soon. Good luck.


----------



## richardorser

dgage said:


> Each step builds on the previous so you really need to understand each step. It doesn't take long and isn't that hard...but you will need to play with it some. So study up and you'll have it figured out soon. Good luck.


Thanks DG, I will be patient and get through it all. Just wondered if with a system that is already installed (but, not yet programmed) if I would have to enter all the devices in the DESIGN section of the software OR in the PROGRAMMING section of the software. Do you recall?
Thanks, Richard


----------



## dgage

richardorser said:


> Thanks DG, I will be patient and get through it all. Just wondered if with a system that is already installed (but, not yet programmed) if I would have to enter all the devices in the DESIGN section of the software OR in the PROGRAMMING section of the software. Do you recall?
> Thanks, Richard


No you don't have to renter, as I mentioned, the app builds upon itself. So how your RadioRa2 devices were entered in the first step will need to be understood as you go through the Design and Progeamming steps. An example is where a switch or keypad were installed and how you want them programmed, you'll need to identify the appropriate room and appropriate switch location. Plus, there are some advanced parameters on the initial configuration page that you'll want to be familiar with such as default light level.


----------



## Sevenfeet

dgage said:


> Good to know someone named Sevenfeet can actually ball.  I played pickup games all through college because I love to play the game but wasn't that good.


I'm old, but I'm slow.  These days I just coach my 3rd grade daughter's team. Two achilles tendon ruptures and I don't jump like I used to. 



> Well it sounds like you've got a handle on the overall design, especially with wkearney's help.
> 
> Regarding the LEDs, I'm switching just about everything over to LED and even swapped out some of the enclosed fixtures since a lot of LEDs aren't suitable to a closed fixture due to heat. I haven't had any issues with LEDs, even running a pair of 4" pucks (8w ea) at only 42% as normal max. Then again, I made sure to purchase all neutral dimmers/switches, which might have helped. I think that's a key point, which is to check to see if you have neutral wires at every switch.
> 
> Good luck!


I'm still in the early learning phase. I'm a fast learn and not afraid of new tech. I've been deep in home theater for 15 years and have Nest Thermostats and Protects in my house already. But this level of automation is a little trickier and needs complete wife approval and the ability to teach my son (who's special needs). He seemed to get around Wkearney99's house pretty well and spent some time on one hybrid keypad to see what the buttons did.

Neutral wires certainly seem to be the key and I'd have to think they were already installed in the key 3-way and 4-way installs my house already has. But I'm going to have to pull the wall plates to check, especially in the older wiring situations. Considering how much detail I put into the kitchen renovation, I can't believe I left the lighting to my contractor. It's also my luck that he's excellent and does outstanding work.


----------



## markrubin

spiwrx said:


> FYI, for those of you that haven't figured it out yet the Pico (since 7.2 apparently) can now be configured to operate the CCO's on the VCRX. This was lacking prior and since the buttons are so tiny on the VCRX this makes a great simple & cheap add-on as a garage door opener button in the garage. Please take a minute to play with the programming as if you are doing multiple circuits on 1 pico you may want to un-check some of the default settings.


can I use any Pico for the VCRX?

I thought they were dedicated for lights or shades


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> can I use any Pico for the VCRX?
> 
> I thought they were dedicated for lights or shades



Apparently if you are using software version 7.2 or higher you can assign a regular pico (not a shade pico) to a VCRX.

we have successfully done it on version 7.6 & 7.7 recently


----------



## richardorser

dgage said:


> No you don't have to renter, as I mentioned, the app builds upon itself. So how your RadioRa2 devices were entered in the first step will need to be understood as you go through the Design and Progeamming steps. An example is where a switch or keypad were installed and how you want them programmed, you'll need to identify the appropriate room and appropriate switch location. Plus, there are some advanced parameters on the initial configuration page that you'll want to be familiar with such as default light level.


Got it! Thanks. Richard


----------



## tritium6

*New install w/ LEDs & Picos*



rapamatic said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much it (other than software controls like the lutron iphone app or third party like CQC)...
> 
> picos are pretty flexible - they can be wall mounted with a faceplate, put on a pedestal, etc..
> 
> You can also use a tabletop keypad if you don't want something on the wall...
> 
> what are you trying to accomplish?


Thanks for the help. I've got a couple of questions about my new install.

1) Trying to save money, so I want to use Picos in most locations for now, but want the option to upgrade to keypads later. My electrician suggested "running and capping romex behind the wallbox" for the pico, but I don't think he understood (and also I don't understand well) how the pico mounts to the wall. Does it involve cutting out the drywall, or fully surface mounted? Anyone have any suggestions to ease this kind of upgrade? How to install a pico in a wall box?

2) Trying to figure out the best way to dim my LEDs. It looks like my choices are the 6NA, the 10NA, or the 6CL, correct? A) Does the 10 watt minimum vs the 5 watt minimum in any way affect the minimum light output achievable by the dimmer/lamp combination? B) What's the best choice in dimmer for new construction? It kinda looks like the 6CL is targeted towards retrofit with the 2 wire feature, but I'll have neutrals installed so maybe I should use the 10NA with the lower 10 watt minimum, but then I'm missing out on the low-end-trim feature. Then again, that shouldn't be a problem with good LED lamps, right?

3) Does the 10NA allow more LED fixtures on a load? I'm guessing not since it's the inrush, not wattage, that necessitates the limit, but wanted to check.

4) Suggestions on LED lamps that work well with RadioRa2 dimmers? I'm sure this discussion has already happened, but it's not coming up in search. Can someone point me to it? Is it better to pick my dimmers first or my lamps first?

Thanks a ton!


----------



## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> 1) Trying to save money, so I want to use Picos in most locations for now, but want the option to upgrade to keypads later. My electrician suggested "running and capping romex behind the wallbox" for the pico, but I don't think he understood (and also I don't understand well) how the pico mounts to the wall. Does it involve cutting out the drywall, or fully surface mounted? Anyone have any suggestions to ease this kind of upgrade? How to install a pico in a wall box?


You can surface mount a pico or put it in a wallbox. The adapter that mounts it in a wallbox can also be used to surface mount it with a claro faceplate... you can also just mount it on the wall with no switchplate. Check out the pico sell sheet: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672467Pico_Wireless_Control_SellSheet.pdf

To allow you to upgrade to a full keypad in the future, which needs a wallbox and power, I'd follow your electrician's advice and put the pico on top of a wallbox that is prewired with 110...



tritium6 said:


> 2) Trying to figure out the best way to dim my LEDs. It looks like my choices are the 6NA, the 10NA, or the 6CL, correct? A) Does the 10 watt minimum vs the 5 watt minimum in any way affect the minimum light output achievable by the dimmer/lamp combination? B) What's the best choice in dimmer for new construction? It kinda looks like the 6CL is targeted towards retrofit with the 2 wire feature, but I'll have neutrals installed so maybe I should use the 10NA with the lower 10 watt minimum, but then I'm missing out on the low-end-trim feature. Then again, that shouldn't be a problem with good LED lamps, right?
> 
> 3) Does the 10NA allow more LED fixtures on a load? I'm guessing not since it's the inrush, not wattage, that necessitates the limit, but wanted to check.
> 
> 4) Suggestions on LED lamps that work well with RadioRa2 dimmers? I'm sure this discussion has already happened, but it's not coming up in search. Can someone point me to it? Is it better to pick my dimmers first or my lamps first?


I'm not an expert on this, since I don't like the way LEDs dim (the color temperature stays constant, even at low levels, unlike incandescent which takes on a pleasant yellow glow at low levels)... Lutron has very detailed spec sheets on how many different LED lights perform with their various dimmers. 

It seems there is a lot of debate around the best dimmer... I've had people tell the the 10ND and other people tell me the 6NA... Both of those are about $50 (list price) more expensive than the 6CL... The 6CL should be able to handle a load as low as one LED bulb, so even though it doesn't have the neutral, minimum load shouldn't be an issue. Read back through here, i believe Paul posted fairly recently saying that he did some testing and the 6CL dimmed LEDs more nicely than the 6NA...

I'm doing retrofit and using mostly 6CL (even though I'm 90% incandescent), with the expectation that as LED tech matures, the 6CL will allow me to upgrade to LED...


----------



## dgage

tritium6 said:


> 4) Suggestions on LED lamps that work well with RadioRa2 dimmers? I'm sure this discussion has already happened, but it's not coming up in search. Can someone point me to it? Is it better to pick my dimmers first or my lamps first?


I've had good luck selecting my LED bulbs and recessed lighting pucks by looking at reviews on HomeDepot.com. I haven't had any issues with the LEDs I've selected there that received many, good reviews. And if I did, I'd take them back and try others. So I would definitely get the dimmers first and worry about the lighting after.


----------



## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> I'm not an expert on this, since I don't like the way LEDs dim (the color temperature stays constant, even at low levels, unlike incandescent which takes on a pleasant yellow glow at low levels)... Lutron has very detailed spec sheets on how many different LED lights perform with their various dimmers.
> 
> It seems there is a lot of debate around the best dimmer... I've had people tell the the 10ND and other people tell me the 6NA... Both of those are about $50 (list price) more expensive than the 6CL... The 6CL should be able to handle a load as low as one LED bulb, so even though it doesn't have the neutral, minimum load shouldn't be an issue. Read back through here, i believe Paul posted fairly recently saying that he did some testing and the 6CL dimmed LEDs more nicely than the 6NA...
> 
> I'm doing retrofit and using mostly 6CL (even though I'm 90% incandescent), with the expectation that as LED tech matures, the 6CL will allow me to upgrade to LED...


Both Juno and Nora and probably some others I'm not aware of are starting to put out CT changing LED Retro's that warm as they dim. I have sample the Juno and Nora and both are impressive and obviously more expensive than the more readily available single CT version. I might wait for 2nd and 3rd generations of this technology. They are very new and wondering what kind of dimming problems they might bring about. 

Just to clarify, I think the Dimming of the 6CL is slightly better (perceived) than the 6NA, in my own home and testing at work. But there are still many reasons the 6NA and 10ND are needed. These are basically backwards compatible. So if I'm quoting an average job, I will recommend they include 1 or the other or a couple of both, whether they need it or not, because you can always move things around if you have a problem with a particular light or lamp. Most of these jobs are 2k-5k so and extra $50 on a small job isn't the end of the world. You'll probably pay for that in frustration and shipping when you figure out they brand "XYZ" that is 1200lm you got at the big box store for $20 is buzzing and now you need one... (stepping off my soap box)


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> Both Juno and Nora and probably some others I'm not aware of are starting to put out CT changing LED Retro's that warm as they dim. I have sample the Juno and Nora and both are impressive and obviously more expensive than the more readily available single CT version. I might wait for 2nd and 3rd generations of this technology. They are very new and wondering what kind of dimming problems they might bring about.


Wow, I did not know about this... I will definitely keep an eye on it, sounds like a great product



spiwrx said:


> So if I'm quoting an average job, I will recommend they include 1 or the other or a couple of both, whether they need it or not, because you can always move things around if you have a problem with a particular light or lamp. Most of these jobs are 2k-5k so and extra $50 on a small job isn't the end of the world.


Good point - and for the record, Paul convinced me to put in a few 6NA on my first floor for just this reason and I have no regrets.


----------



## tritium6

Thanks a bunch for the help. One more question - if I get an LED bulb that fits a low voltage fixture like an MR16, can I run that on a load with line voltage LED downlights? I'm guessing I can't. But does that mean that it would probably be ok on a load with other low voltage bulbs?


----------



## Neurorad

I have to swap out a 6CL for a 6NA, for dimming low-voltage LED in-cabinet puck lights (WAC HRLED87 x 6, EN-2460 Transformer).

AVS Member BradKas explained why: "The WAC power supplies require an ELV dimmer which dims on the trailing edge of the AC sine wave. The 6CL cannot do this as it dims on the leading edge. This is why it is flickering."

I haven't replaced the 6CL yet, so can't definitively confirm that the swap will fix.


----------



## dgage

Interesting feedback Neurorad...looking forward to your results. Thanks.


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> Thanks a bunch for the help. One more question - if I get an LED bulb that fits a low voltage fixture like an MR16, can I run that on a load with line voltage LED downlights? I'm guessing I can't. But does that mean that it would probably be ok on a load with other low voltage bulbs?


Yes, depending on the dimmer. We're on the RR2 thread and even the most basic RR2 6D dimmer is capable of mixed Inc. & MLV loads. You're asking about a LED MR16 but you are actually controlling a regular transformer on your LV can. The LED at this point doesn't really matter. If we were controlling a LED driver we would have more to talk about, and thats where the 6CL, 6NA and 10ND come in. Most all of the Lutron Dimmers are backwards compatible, but not all... _(problems to look out for are MLV on ELV dimmers, though this usually works, Lutron says don't do it)_

Things you will notice:


LED may light up slightly after regular MR16
LED may not dim at same rate or at all
LED will cut off and/or start to blink somewhere below 50% usually
LED may not turn on if dimmer is set really low
LED and Reg. MR16 will not dim at same rate (usually)
 LED will remain same color, Reg. MR16 will get warmer as you dim.
If you are going to mix lamps and try and keep consistent color, you probably want a 2700k (or lower) lamp. 



Also, if you haven't read through the thread, all the RR2 dimmers have a minimum load. Usually around 60watts for a 6D or 6CL and around 10watts for a neutral connected dimmer 6NA and 10ND.


----------



## Neurorad

I was thinking the minimum wattage of my 6 LED pucks (x 4.8 watts each, connected in parallel) wasn't enough, but I'm not an electrician, or lighting distributor. Whatever the reason, I'm fairly confident the 6NA will work fine, and I've already bought the color change kit for the 6CL to use it elsewhere.


----------



## tritium6

Wow, great stuff. Thanks again.

Does anyone know if I can use the Picos from Staples with an RR2 system? They're marked "Caseta" but look identical to other Picos.



> The Pico® remote control is a convenient way to control Lutron Caseta™ Wireless dimmers. With the Pico you can turn lights on, off, raise or lower them from anywhere in the room. Use the "favorite" button to save your favorite light level. You can use the Pico as a handheld remote, mount it on a wall, or mount it on a tabletop pedestal. You can also control your lights with the Pico from the comfort of your car.
> 
> Requires the Staples Connect Hub, powered by Linksys


----------



## A&M 350Z

Ramias said:


> Does anybody have a good source where I can buy Sivoia QS shades (or whatever they are called) that work with RA2?
> 
> 
> 
> I can install and program them myself. I don't need a decorator to come to my home.
> 
> 
> 
> I just need a place to buy them from. Looking to get the motorized drape/curtain system. I may buy my drape fabric elsewhere or I may buy Lutron.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Venue 8 Pro 5830 using Tapatalk


 Have same question


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> I have to swap out a 6CL for a 6NA, for dimming low-voltage LED in-cabinet puck lights (WAC HRLED87 x 6, EN-2460 Transformer).
> 
> AVS Member BradKas explained why: "The WAC power supplies require an ELV dimmer which dims on the trailing edge of the AC sine wave. The 6CL cannot do this as it dims on the leading edge. This is why it is flickering."
> 
> I haven't replaced the 6CL yet, so can't definitively confirm that the swap will fix.


Yes, and update your software. Depending on your version of the software you may have to configure the 6NA to Trailing edge (I think Lutron calls reverse phase). There was a glitch in a previous version_(7.0? Corrected in 7.1)_. If you are current 7.6 or 7.7 it should set them to "Auto-Detect". If you're on the wrong version it defaults to forward phase I don't know if this is configurable in the software I think it's a manual APM.


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> Wow, great stuff. Thanks again.
> 
> Does anyone know if I can use the Picos from Staples with an RR2 system? They're marked "Caseta" but look identical to other Picos.


As far as I know all the Pico's are the same but you can only use/program them to one system type. So you couldn't use them for both Caseta and RR2 at the same time.


----------



## az1324

spiwrx said:


> As far as I know all the Pico's are the same but you can only use/program them to one system type. So you couldn't use them for both Caseta and RR2 at the same time.


Well picos are transmit only so you can't really "program" them other than to set what frequency they transmit at. So 2 systems on the same frequency that can both hear a pico can both respond to it and would not be aware of one another.


----------



## rapamatic

az1324 said:


> Well picos are transmit only so you can't really "program" them other than to set what frequency they transmit at. So 2 systems on the same frequency that can both hear a pico can both respond to it and would not be aware of one another.


I'm not an expert, but I imagine when you activate a pico it may change or synchronize its signal so that when you activate it with one system it would no longer work with another. 

Think of a basic garage door opener. Its a transmit-only device, and when you sync it with one garage door opener it no longer works with another (obviously ignoring openers that have multiple buttons for multiple garage doors)


----------



## spiwrx

az1324 said:


> Well picos are transmit only so you can't really "program" them other than to set what frequency they transmit at. So 2 systems on the same frequency that can both hear a pico can both respond to it and would not be aware of one another.


Poor choice of words. I should have said "pair" or "pairing". I have not tried it personally, but the Lutron Engineer at my training said you cannot "pair" it to multiple systems at once. Theoretically I think you may be right, but why would you mix systems anyway...


----------



## az1324

rapamatic said:


> I'm not an expert, but I imagine when you activate a pico it may change or synchronize its signal so that when you activate it with one system it would no longer work with another.
> 
> Think of a basic garage door opener. Its a transmit-only device, and when you sync it with one garage door opener it no longer works with another (obviously ignoring openers that have multiple buttons for multiple garage doors)


I suppose that is true if the remote is a rolling code device and has a special sequence or button for programming. But in that case you could just program both receivers simultaneously.


----------



## az1324

spiwrx said:


> Poor choice of words. I should have said "pair" or "pairing". I have not tried it personally, but the Lutron Engineer at my training said you cannot "pair" it to multiple systems at once. Theoretically I think you may be right, but why would you mix systems anyway...


The only reason would be to save money.


----------



## rapamatic

az1324 said:


> I suppose that is true if the remote is a rolling code device and has a special sequence or button for programming. But in that case you could just program both receivers simultaneously.


To make a pico (or any control) work with RadioRa2 (and I assume caseta, but I have no experience there), the pico has to be activated. My guess is that activation process is where the rolling code/pairing happens. 

I don't think you could simultaneously activate a pico under two different systems. I imagine as soon as you activated it under RadioRa2, it would lose its pairing with caseta, and vice-versa.


----------



## az1324

rapamatic said:


> To make a pico (or any control) work with RadioRa2 (and I assume caseta, but I have no experience there), the pico has to be activated. My guess is that activation process is where the rolling code/pairing happens.
> 
> I don't think you could simultaneously activate a pico under two different systems. I imagine as soon as you activated it under RadioRa2, it would lose its pairing with caseta, and vice-versa.


I think you are misunderstanding the notion of simultaneous plus the fact that the pico cannot receive any data.



> Can I control more than one light with a Pico remote control?
> Yes, you can pair a Pico remote control with multiple dimmers. This is helpful if you wish, for example, to turn off all the lights in your bedroom with one button press, without getting out of bed.
> 
> I bought a kit – can I add more dimmers and Pico remote controls?
> Yes, it’s easy to add more Caséta Wireless dimmers at any time. Simply install the new dimmers and pair them with your existing Pico remote controls. Or, add Pico remote controls to create additional points of control.


So if you can pair additional dimmers to the pico without losing the pairing with the original dimmer then the same should apply to repeaters and other devices.


----------



## spiwrx

AZ1324 is presumably correct, though Lutron suggest you cannot. I'm intrigued but not willing to try as I don't have a customer it's required for. I would side with AZ that you could but until it actually come up, I'll leave it as a theoretical yes.


----------



## spiwrx

spiwrx said:


> Yes, and update your software. Depending on your version of the software you may have to configure the 6NA to Trailing edge (I think Lutron calls reverse phase). There was a glitch in a previous version_(7.0? Corrected in 7.1)_. If you are current 7.6 or 7.7 it should set them to "Auto-Detect". If you're on the wrong version it defaults to forward phase I don't know if this is configurable in the software I think it's a manual APM.


In case this was of interest, and to remind some of you (as I just had to remind my self)

If you want to access the APM (advanced programming) in the software:


Design Tab
Select Device
Right Click picture of device > Advanced setting pop-up
Click advanced settings
for 6NA you will see "Phase control" drop down
be careful with the "apply to all". Though it is helpful when you want to adjust all the system fade times...
hi/low end trim can also be adjusted here


----------



## wkearney99

az1324 said:


> I think you are misunderstanding the notion of simultaneous plus the fact that the pico cannot receive any data.
> 
> 
> 
> So if you can pair additional dimmers to the pico without losing the pairing with the original dimmer then the same should apply to repeaters and other devices.


You wouldn't pair the Pico with more than one dimmer. You'd program it's buttons to affect whatever devices you want. The buttons can be tied to all the same devices, or ungrouped to allow buttons to affect different devices. But it does have to be devices, not virtual keypads or shared scenes. The raise/lower buttons will only do that, across whatever devices you set up. The center button will set whatever devices you configure. It does not appear to be able to trigger a scene shared elsewhere, nor a button on a keypad (virtual or physical). At least not in the 7.6 software.


----------



## az1324

wkearney99 said:


> You wouldn't pair the Pico with more than one dimmer. You'd program it's buttons to affect whatever devices you want. The buttons can be tied to all the same devices, or ungrouped to allow buttons to affect different devices. But it does have to be devices, not virtual keypads or shared scenes. The raise/lower buttons will only do that, across whatever devices you set up. The center button will set whatever devices you configure. It does not appear to be able to trigger a scene shared elsewhere, nor a button on a keypad (virtual or physical). At least not in the 7.6 software.


I know this is the RA2 thread, but that quote was in reference to a standalone caseta installation and only meant to support my point about the "pairing" process.


----------



## tritium6

wkearney99 said:


> You wouldn't pair the Pico with more than one dimmer. You'd program it's buttons to affect whatever devices you want. The buttons can be tied to all the same devices, or ungrouped to allow buttons to affect different devices. But it does have to be devices, not virtual keypads or shared scenes. The raise/lower buttons will only do that, across whatever devices you set up. The center button will set whatever devices you configure. It does not appear to be able to trigger a scene shared elsewhere, nor a button on a keypad (virtual or physical). At least not in the 7.6 software.


I want to use Picos in place of keypads in almost all locations of my house. Is this doable? Can I have one button on the Pico that turns on loads on 2 dimmers?


----------



## Neurorad

Paul, thanks so much for your help.


----------



## wkearney99

Picos can be used to control sets of lighting. A keypad offers that and quite a lot more. So be sure you're not short-changing your needs.

With a 3-button R/L Pico you define what devices (dimmers, switches, table dimmers, RF switches, etc) are associated with it. Either as a group where all the functions are carried across all of the configured dimmers, or separated. The light on/off buttons will do just that to the defined devices. Likewise the Raise/Lower. The center button sets the defined devices to a defined state. I have one on the car visor configured to use the center button as a "All Off". It has pretty much the entire house's list of devices on it, set to off or 0% dim. The Light on/off and raise/lower, however are set to affect just the front porch and entry lighting.

But in other places I have keypads and a pico couldn't hope to come close to the same level of functionality. One on the kitchen island is configured with toggles (on to a defined percentage, or off) for several sets of lighting in the open-floorplan space. One button for the recessed cans directly over the sink, another for the island pendants, one for the nearby couch endtable lamps and another for the breakfast table. The last button is an "Area Off" that kills all lighting in the space. No chance a Pico would be able to give me that.

There's good reasons for both keypads and picos.


----------



## Foos-Man

*Dimmer vs switch*

Assuming there are no electrical load restrictions/requirements to use a switch, ex: assuming all LED loads, is there any reason to install a switch versus dimmer? Pricing looks identical on 6CL versus a switch, why not use all dimmers? I think it's possible for a user to accidentally reset the double tap setting? Just trying to understand from a functional stand point if using all dimmers would be the way to go?


----------



## rapamatic

Foos-Man said:


> Assuming there are no electrical load restrictions/requirements to use a switch, ex: assuming all LED loads, is there any reason to install a switch versus dimmer? Pricing looks identical on 6CL versus a switch, why not use all dimmers? I think it's possible for a user to accidentally reset the double tap setting? Just trying to understand from a functional stand point if using all dimmers would be the way to go?


No reason that I can think of, other than unusual/large loads. I'm putting dimmers on closet lights and other things that we probably will never dim.

I suppose one difference is that someone can dim a light using the rocker switch on the side, and then maybe get confused about if the light is off or on (I'm grasping at straws a bit here)... you can program the dimmers to always default to a certain level on the first tap, eliminating some of the possible user-error issues with a dimmer...


----------



## wkearney99

I've got switches in a couple of places where the lighting would not lend itself to being dimmed. Some overhead fluorescent fixtures in the workshop & shed, a closet, etc. No point in having a dimmable setting as that could potentially shorten the life of the lighting. Better to just avoid the issue entirely by using the switch. Otherwise you're at the mercy of someone inadvertently setting a dim level. 

My only gripe is the switches don't treat a double-tap as a 'full on'. Instead they're dumb and see it as a quick on & off sequence. Kinda annoying. But in most of the places that have a switch I've since added a motion sensor, so it's less of an issue.


----------



## wkearney99

Neurorad said:


> Paul, thanks so much for your help.


Paul is *the man* when it comes to RA2 and other electrical needs. He's been an absolutely tremendous amount of help for me. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better supplier.


----------



## DMILANI

Why are you double tapping a switch? A switch only has two levels of course, full on or full off. Or am I missing something?

Thanks.



wkearney99 said:


> My only gripe is the switches don't treat a double-tap as a 'full on'. Instead they're dumb and see it as a quick on & off sequence. Kinda annoying. But in most of the places that have a switch I've since added a motion sensor, so it's less of an issue.


----------



## rapamatic

DMILANI said:


> Why are you double tapping a switch? A switch only has two levels of course, full on or full off. Or am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks.


This happens because with dimmers you double tap to go to full (instead of preset) brightness... muscle memory for many...


----------



## wkearney99

DMILANI said:


> Why are you double tapping a switch? A switch only has two levels of course, full on or full off.


Force of habit. Double-tapping a dimmer always brings it up to 100%. 

It'd be convenient if the switches had some de-bounce logic to allow interpreting a quick double-tap as just an on. Instead it dutifully sees the taps individually and does a quick on then off again.

But, like I said, in most of the places where I've got a switch I'd added a motion sensor anyway, eliminating the use of the wall switch most of the time.


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> I want to use Picos in place of keypads in almost all locations of my house. Is this doable? Can I have one button on the Pico that turns on loads on 2 dimmers?


Yes, but with a PICO you can only do "Scenes" and cannot toggle the Scene on the same button. So you can turn on (off or both) any group of lights on the system at any level with one button, but you'll need another button for the opposite action. 

Commonly you will have a button to turn on and a button to turn off. If you think that gives you enough options, by all means it will work. If you need more than 3buttons/scenes (1 commonly being off, so really 2) than you should use a actual Keypad. 

FWIW, You can also setup virtual keypads in the programming and use them on the app.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> Yes, but with a PICO you can only do "Scenes" and cannot toggle the Scene on the same button. So you can turn on (off or both) any group of lights on the system at any level with one button, but you'll need another button for the opposite action.
> 
> Commonly you will have a button to turn on and a button to turn off. If you think that gives you enough options, by all means it will work. If you need more than 3buttons/scenes (1 commonly being off, so really 2) than you should use a actual Keypad.
> 
> FWIW, You can also setup virtual keypads in the programming and use them on the app.


I'm unsure about Pico and scenes. In 7.6 it does not allow attaching a scene to a Pico button. That is, not a scene shared by anything else. Yes, you an define a set of devices to be controlled by a button. And that's, more or less, a 'scene'. But in RA2 there's also the notion of shared scenes and it does not appear a Pico can call them. As in, I couldn't set the middle button to use my 'All Off' shared scene. Instead I had to manually put all the devices into the button's config. Nor does it appear to allow a Pico to send a command to a virtual keypad button. 

I don't know exactly how the Pico controls fit into the operation. Are they speaking to the various devices directly, or are they using the repeater to do the work? Not that it matters, I suppose, but it'd be interesting to know.

The app 'works' but it's really a bit clunkier than it ought to be.


----------



## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> I'm unsure about Pico and scenes. In 7.6 it does not allow attaching a scene to a Pico button. That is, not a scene shared by anything else.....
> 
> ....The app 'works' but it's really a bit clunkier than it ought to be.


No, you cannot use a "shared scene" on the Pico. That's not what I was intended to suggest. Only that compared to a actual keypad you cannot select the type button logic. On a regular or hybrid keypad, you have several options, Scene, Toggle, path of light shared scene, etc... For the Pico, as you suggested Bill, there are no options. Only Scene. From my experience, first time users have some trouble wrapping their heads around what a "scene" is. Intuitively most expect a button to turn something on & off (toggle). A scene (in my words) is basically a preset. It will bring a light or a certain group of lights to whichever state you set them up for and that's it. If you press it again, nothing. If the lights are locally or otherwise altered (raise / lower) pressing that scene again will return them to their programmed state.

If you want to turn that Scene off you have to program another scene (different button) to set all those loads to zero. 

Most basic scenario: if you want to use a pico to turn a light on and off you need a 2 button pico, one button for on and one button for off. I'm painfully overstating to hopefully make it clear. And on a regular keypad you can use the same button set up for "Path of Light" or "Toggle" to turn that light (or group of lights) on and off with the same button. 

& yes, I agree. The app works well, but connecting and working your way through the menus probably takes more time than using a well placed keypad or pico.


----------



## Foos-Man

wkearney99 said:


> Force of habit. Double-tapping a dimmer always brings it up to 100%.
> 
> It'd be convenient if the switches had some de-bounce logic to allow interpreting a quick double-tap as just an on. Instead it dutifully sees the taps individually and does a quick on then off again.
> 
> But, like I said, in most of the places where I've got a switch I'd added a motion sensor anyway, eliminating the use of the wall switch most of the time.


Thanks for the feedback. Great point about the double-tap on a switch being inconsistent...I did not realize that was the case. I'll target using dimmers except a couple locations such as laundry room which has Fluorescent...plan to use motion sensor+switch. I have several bedrooms that have Maestro Fan Contol/Dimmers, so the family is familiar with the single/double-tap. Also, seems like keeping things consistent would be preferred, as pointed out in the last few messages.


----------



## Neurorad

FWIW, fluorescents are dimmable, but require a third wire, and a dimmable ballast. I have one in my workshop, near the TV. Dims to about 30%, I estimate.


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> FWIW, fluorescents are dimmable, but require a third wire, and a dimmable ballast. I have one in my workshop, near the TV. Dims to about 30%, I estimate.


Let me just clarify a bit by saying most 4pin plug in and 2ft & over linear fluorescent are dimmable, assuming you have the appropriate dimming ballast and dimmer. There are at least 3 types of commonly used dimmable ballast types 0-10v, 3-Wire (as mentioned by Neurorad), & tu-wire. Each has a specific type of dimmer associated with it. There are also some more exotic ones.

Some screw in "CFL" (if labeled dimmable) will dim OK, and that's what the RRD-6CL is intended for (as well as LED screw in lamps, recessed and retro LED)

Aside from the RRD-6CL, currently RR2 only addresses 3-wire (via RRD-F6AN) & the 0-10v (0-10v module may be Inclusive only??) 

So yes, most current fluorescent lamps using a separate ballast could be converted to dimming. However, self ballasted lamps may or may not be (most aren't). 

Laslty, if you are dimming fluorescent lamps you should be "seasoning" or burning them in. They recommend you run the lamps initially and anytime you re-lamps at 100% for the first 100hrs. This will extend you lamp life and they will dim better, longer...


----------



## tritium6

Question: How do you pair a dimmer to the main repeater? How about an aux repeater? Does this step need to be done before the switch is installed?

Also, do the dimmers function as normal dimmers if no programming has been performed?

Thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

tritium6 said:


> Question: How do you pair a dimmer to the main repeater? How about an aux repeater? Does this step need to be done before the switch is installed?
> 
> Also, do the dimmers function as normal dimmers if no programming has been performed?


Yes, they'll work as normal dimmers even when not programmed. Which can be done easily in the RA2 software. Using a PC it connects over wired ethernet to the repeater. The software instructs the repeater to go into activation mode. At which point you press each switch, the repeater detects this and you can then activate it within the software. You can also activate them manually but the software makes it MUCH, MUCH less tedious to do it.


----------



## tritium6

wkearney99 said:


> Yes, they'll work as normal dimmers even when not programmed. Which can be done easily in the RA2 software. Using a PC it connects over wired ethernet to the repeater. The software instructs the repeater to go into activation mode. At which point you press each switch, the repeater detects this and you can then activate it within the software. You can also activate them manually but the software makes it MUCH, MUCH less tedious to do it.


Which method, manual or software, will allow me to activate a dimmer to the repeater if the dimmer has already been installed in the wall?

Can anyone point me to Lutron documentation on this step? Thanks again.


----------



## wkearney99

tritium6 said:


> Which method, manual or software, will allow me to activate a dimmer to the repeater if the dimmer has already been installed in the wall?
> 
> Can anyone point me to Lutron documentation on this step? Thanks again.


Both work once it's in the wall. There's nothing you can do before they're in the wall as they need power to activate. I suppose you could cobble up some sort of rig to temporarily power them for activation, but why?

From the software it's a simple matter of adding the devices to your configuration and then selecting activate. Then you just walk around and press the buttons as per the software's instructions. Having a wireless laptop works great for this. 

Manually you press and hold a button on the repeater and then walk around pressing and holding each dimmer's paddle. The repeater will chirp as it recognizes each new one. 

The docs for doing this manually come with the repeater. I believe the Pdf for that is on lutron's website.


----------



## rapamatic

wkearney99 said:


> Manually you press and hold a button on the repeater and then walk around pressing and holding each dimmer's paddle. The repeater will chirp as it recognizes each new one.
> 
> The docs for doing this manually come with the repeater. I believe the Pdf for that is on lutron's website.


But there's really no reason to do manual activation. The software is free, and makes programming 100 times easier. Not to mention, I believe certain programming can only be done with the software.


----------



## tritium6

wkearney99 said:


> Both work once it's in the wall. There's nothing you can do before they're in the wall as they need power to activate. I suppose you could cobble up some sort of rig to temporarily power them for activation, but why?
> 
> From the software it's a simple matter of adding the devices to your configuration and then selecting activate. Then you just walk around and press the buttons as per the software's instructions. Having a wireless laptop works great for this.
> 
> Manually you press and hold a button on the repeater and then walk around pressing and holding each dimmer's paddle. The repeater will chirp as it recognizes each new one.
> 
> The docs for doing this manually come with the repeater. I believe the Pdf for that is on lutron's website.


Oh yeah, I guess the power issue seems pretty obvious once you mention it. I found the docs for manual setup on lutron's site:

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/044-254b.pdf

Is there documentation describing how to program? Or is it only covered in the online training videos?


----------



## tritium6

*Fan Control*

The training video mentions a Fan Control and a Dimmer in a 2-gang. How does that work? I guess fans with lights can be wired to have the motor and lamp on separate loads? Do all fan/light combos have that feature or do I need to find a fan that supports this?
---------
Edit: I guess my real question is this: I was planning to have my lighting dimmers located in a closet and my fan controllers on the wall. Now I'm not sure that will work for fans with attached lights. Is it possible to maintain this setup? Do I run two runs of romex to the fan - 1 to the fan controller on the wall and 1 to the dimmer in the closet?


----------



## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> The training video mentions a Fan Control and a Dimmer in a 2-gang. How does that work? I guess fans with lights can be wired to have the motor and lamp on separate loads? Do all fan/light combos have that feature or do I need to find a fan that supports this?
> ---------
> Edit: I guess my real question is this: I was planning to have my lighting dimmers located in a closet and my fan controllers on the wall. Now I'm not sure that will work for fans with attached lights. Is it possible to maintain this setup? Do I run two runs of romex to the fan - 1 to the fan controller on the wall and 1 to the dimmer in the closet?


It all depends on the fan. In general, the simpler ones with pull chains and no remote controls or wall mounted controls will have separate wires for the light and the fan, and you can thus connect the fan control and the dimmer to the appropriate wires. The best way to tell is to find a schematic or installation instructions for the fan you're considering.

In you case, with the right fan, it would work. And yeah, just run one run of romex from the light dimmer and one from the fan controller, and put them both in the fan box.


----------



## wkearney99

The fan controller requires 1 gang. So if you have any lighting on the fan you'll need a separate 1-gang spot for a dimmer/switch to control it. There's no RA2 combo fan/light unit. Yes, it would be GREAT to have such a beast but it does not exist. Likewise it'd be great to have one with a ceiling canopy module.

There are other Lutron fan/light combos and canopy modules but they're not RA2 compatible. Also note the RA2 fan control and dimmer will require appropriate wiring to handle controlling them. As in, you'll need a /3 conductor cable running to the fan's ceiling box, not just /2 conductor (ground is not a conductor). That and the wall box will require a neutral for the fan control (and possibly the dimmer depending on which one you choose). 

I make this point because there are some situations where power goes to the ceiling box FIRST and then there's just a switch leg running down to the wall box. 

It's a good general point to require ALL wall switch boxes to have a neutral. Power to the wall box FIRST, not the ceiling. The latter used to be common in some areas. Code in many areas now supports neutral in the wall box. CONFIRM to be sure how your electrician is planning to do it and follow up to check that it was actually done that way. You'd be surprised what slackers they can be...

And pull /3 cabling to any ceiling locations that might ever be set up for a ceiling fan. Be sure the box installed in the ceiling is one designed for mounting a fan.


----------



## Dean Roddey

spiwrx said:


> No, you cannot use a "shared scene" on the Pico. That's not what I was intended to suggest. Only that compared to a actual keypad you cannot select the type button logic. On a regular or hybrid keypad, you have several options, Scene, Toggle, path of light shared scene, etc... For the Pico, as you suggested Bill, there are no options. Only Scene.


Some may have already mentioned this, but if you are combining RA2 with a product like CQC, then the buttons can do anything. You can trigger CQC to do an action based on the button pressed, and it can control any devices under CQC's control in any way you want. You can have one button to power on the theater and another to power off. But, you can also use it as a toggle, so that if CQC sees the power is on, it turns things off, else it turns them on. It opens up a lot more possibilities, and also brings all those devices that RA2 can't control into the picture.


----------



## A&M 350Z

wkearney99 said:


> The fan controller requires 1 gang. So if you have any lighting on the fan you'll need a separate 1-gang spot for a dimmer/switch to control it. There's no RA2 combo fan/light unit. Yes, it would be GREAT to have such a beast but it does not exist. Likewise it'd be great to have one with a ceiling canopy module.
> 
> There are other Lutron fan/light combos and canopy modules but they're not RA2 compatible. Also note the RA2 fan control and dimmer will require appropriate wiring to handle controlling them. As in, you'll need a /3 conductor cable running to the fan's ceiling box, not just /2 conductor (ground is not a conductor). That and the wall box will require a neutral for the fan control (and possibly the dimmer depending on which one you choose).
> 
> I make this point because there are some situations where power goes to the ceiling box FIRST and then there's just a switch leg running down to the wall box.
> 
> It's a good general point to require ALL wall switch boxes to have a neutral. Power to the wall box FIRST, not the ceiling. The latter used to be common in some areas. Code in many areas now supports neutral in the wall box. CONFIRM to be sure how your electrician is planning to do it and follow up to check that it was actually done that way. You'd be surprised what slackers they can be...
> 
> And pull /3 cabling to any ceiling locations that might ever be set up for a ceiling fan. Be sure the box installed in the ceiling is one designed for mounting a fan.


Since we are on the topic, I have a Lutron dual fan/dimmer too. I assumed there was seperate load wires for the light and fan. However, there is only 1 load wire. Is that where the canopy module comes in play? Anyways, my plan was to replace the dual fan/dimmer with seperate RA2 dimmer and fan controllers but I guess that wont work? Does this basically require me to run a new feed to the light?


----------



## wkearney99

I don't know which unit you have, got a model number? I'm not really up on the non-RA devices. I had a Lutron dual light dimmer/fan timer unit in the old house, for a bathroom. It had two separate outgoing hot leads. The setup required three wires going up to the fan/light unit, one neutral return for both the fan and light, and a hot lead for each (having gone through the combo timer/dimmer first).

When you have a canopy module (which RA2 does NOT offer) they often support using just two wires up to it. Control over the fan and the light is done via RF remote control from the switch assembly to the module. The wires in the wall switch are typically not controlled through the switch, just passed-through so that the canopy stays powered all the time; ready for RF commands. It's the module that does both the light and the fan controlling. But, again, that's not a RA2 setup and the specifics can vary based on vendor and model.


----------



## spiwrx

A&M 350Z said:


> Since we are on the topic, I have a Lutron dual fan/dimmer too. I assumed there was seperate load wires for the light and fan. However, there is only 1 load wire. Is that where the canopy module comes in play? Anyways, my plan was to replace the dual fan/dimmer with seperate RA2 dimmer and fan controllers but I guess that wont work? Does this basically require me to run a new feed to the light?


The Maestro Fan/Light control requires canopy module and communicates over a 2-wire connection. Most electricians and fan installers (if they know there will be a light) will put in a 3-wire. So with Maestro you only use 2, with radio ra or most other fan/light controls you will need all 3. _Likewise if you want to add a light to a fan only, you could do it on 2 wire with the maestro setup, that was the point of the canopy module as well as 1 control able to control multiple fan/modules of you had a large room with multiple fans. _

If you already have the Maestro, and want to switch to the RR2 you will have to have 3 wires, and remove the canopy modules. If you only have 2-wire and have attic access, you may consider remote mounting the RR2 controls and using a keypad or Pico in the regular wall position.


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> Question: How do you pair a dimmer to the main repeater? How about an aux repeater? Does this step need to be done before the switch is installed?
> 
> Also, do the dimmers function as normal dimmers if no programming has been performed?
> 
> Thanks.


*
wkearney99 & rapamatic *already addressed most of this, but I wanted to add: please don't attempt to program manually if you have any intention of software program. You will have to manually reset each device (factory default) before you can software program. I think rapamatic also hinted to the fact, if you program manually, you can only program scenes from the keypads. 

Lastly, you can just install and use all the switches and dimmers as if they were normal ones before you program. Nothing manually has to be done at this point. Some of you have taken the approach of programming via serial numbers instead of walk-around activation. This does save some steps(literally), but you have to make manual record of each device and enter it manually in the software. I personally think it's easier to walk around with a wifi connected laptop and activate. But if you haven't done either, maybe you want to just record each devices serial # before you physically mount it. It's on one side and you cannot see it once it's mounted.


----------



## tritium6

spiwrx said:


> *
> wkearney99 & rapamatic *already addressed most of this, but I wanted to add: please don't attempt to program manually if you have any intention of software program. You will have to manually reset each device (factory default) before you can software program. I think rapamatic also hinted to the fact, if you program manually, you can only program scenes from the keypads.
> 
> Lastly, you can just install and use all the switches and dimmers as if they were normal ones before you program. Nothing manually has to be done at this point. Some of you have taken the approach of programming via serial numbers instead of walk-around activation. This does save some steps(literally), but you have to make manual record of each device and enter it manually in the software. I personally think it's easier to walk around with a wifi connected laptop and activate. But if you haven't done either, maybe you want to just record each devices serial # before you physically mount it. It's on one side and you cannot see it once it's mounted.


Thanks for the tips. This is new construction. I'm placing the dimmers in the closet, so it shouldn't be too far to walk 

Unfortunately that means I can't really use them before programming. Not too worried about that. 

You all have been really helpful with planning this all out. Much more helpful than the dealers/installers even. Thanks.


----------



## schalliol

tritium6 said:


> Thanks for the tips. This is new construction. I'm placing the dimmers in the closet, so it shouldn't be too far to walk
> 
> Unfortunately that means I can't really use them before programming. Not too worried about that.
> 
> You all have been really helpful with planning this all out. Much more helpful than the dealers/installers even. Thanks.


Why don't you just install them and program them at the same time? I usually program them before I install them. That's probably the best bet so you can test them fully, etc.


----------



## tritium6

schalliol said:


> Why don't you just install them and program them at the same time? I usually program them before I install them. That's probably the best bet so you can test them fully, etc.


How do you power them for programming before installation?

Also, my electrician is concerned that if we pull power for a keypad from a nearby outlet, like I had suggested, that it might interfere with the keypad if we are running a vacuum cleaner from that outlet. Has anyone bumped into that kind of problem before? Is the only solution to run a dedicated circuit for the keypads, as the electrician suggested?


----------



## schalliol

You don't need to even have the devices at all in order to program. Set up the programming and then once you drop the devices in, check its powered and then activate and transfer all at once. Alternatively you could put in the serial numbers in for all the devices and skip activation and just transfer


----------



## dgage

I've actually pulled plugs out that I forgot to write down the serial numbers. Is there a way to activate a switch with the software if you forgot to get the serial number before installation? Thanks.

David


----------



## rapamatic

dgage said:


> I've actually pulled plugs out that I forgot to write down the serial numbers. Is there a way to activate a switch with the software if you forgot to get the serial number before installation? Thanks.
> 
> David


Yeah, you put it in activation mode (through the software) and then it goes through all the switches/dimmers/keypads/etc. -- you then hold down a button on each switch to activate it. Very easy.

Check out Module 4.0 in the RadioRa 2 learning center on mylutron - shows you how to do it.


----------



## Neurorad

Neurorad said:


> Just changed a Pico battery last night. I would LOVE to hardwire that, and pay a lot of money for the transformer.





az1324 said:


> Ok. Well not that hard to set up a 3.3V supply for picos and solder some wires if you have the wiring in place and really don't like changing batteries.


Can anyone recommend a specific power supply, to be mounted in an enclosure, remote from the Pico (30 foot run, 18/2 or 22/2)?


----------



## tritium6

My electrician is concerned that if we pull power for a keypad from a nearby outlet, like I had suggested, that it might interfere with the keypad if we are running a vacuum cleaner from that outlet. Has anyone bumped into that kind of problem before? Is the only solution to run a dedicated circuit for the keypads, as the electrician suggested?


----------



## markrubin

tritium6 said:


> My electrician is concerned that if we pull power for a keypad from a nearby outlet, like I had suggested, that it might interfere with the keypad if we are running a vacuum cleaner from that outlet. Has anyone bumped into that kind of problem before? Is the only solution to run a dedicated circuit for the keypads, as the electrician suggested?


 RR2 is designed for retrofit applications in existing homes, where it may not be possible to run a dedicated circuit for an added device....I have not heard any issues of this type


----------



## Neurorad

I would power it from the nearby outlet. If some issue arose down the road, from interference, then I would consider other options.

You could use low-voltage to power a keypad as well, from a transformer, if you can do that. Application Note #406 .

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/406_App_Note_RadioRA2.pdf

Transformer could be located in a nearby cabinet, in a closet, or located centrally in the mechanical room. I've also seen transformers located inside junction boxes.


----------



## spiwrx

Just so there is no confusion, the App. Note 406 above is for powering a regular RRD-Wxxx type of keypad _(we have also successfully done this on 24vdc @ short distances to Trans.)_ This application note is not for powering a Pico (3.3v) _[In previous post]_

They do make a wired (low voltage) pico, but I was told from Lutron it's only for MRF2 applications. I'm sure you could source a small power supply from an electronics supply. 
[Something like this should work: http://www.parts-express.com/vellem...ower-supply-multi-plug-selectable-vo--320-140]

And I have never heard of a Vacuum interfering with any Radio Ra Device. Tapping into a local receptacle is a typical application. You might remind him RR2 communicates on RF not over powerline.


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks for the power supply tip, Paul.

Just to further clarify, that low voltage Pico isn't to be used with RA2 *AT ALL*. It's called Pico Wired Control, and that Pico isn't even an RF device - it delivers a signal over low voltage wired to some non-RA2 Lutron devices. 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369439_Pico_Wired_Spec.pdf


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> Thanks for the power supply tip, Paul.
> 
> Just to further clarify, that low voltage Pico isn't to be used with RA2 *AT ALL*. It's called Pico Wired Control, and that Pico isn't even an RF device - it delivers a signal over low voltage wired to some non-RA2 Lutron devices.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369439_Pico_Wired_Spec.pdf


Never looked into it that far. Wish they wouldn't have called it a "Pico"...


----------



## Neurorad

Neurorad said:


> I have to swap out a 6CL for a 6NA, for dimming low-voltage LED in-cabinet puck lights (WAC HRLED87 x 6, EN-2460 Transformer).
> 
> AVS Member BradKas explained why: "The WAC power supplies require an ELV dimmer which dims on the trailing edge of the AC sine wave. The 6CL cannot do this as it dims on the leading edge. This is why it is flickering."
> 
> I haven't replaced the 6CL yet, so can't definitively confirm that the swap will fix.


I can now confirm that the WAC HRLED87 in-cabinet LED puck lights, x 6, wired in parallel, WAC EN2460 Transformer, dim well with the -6NA. FWIW, Neutral required for the RRD-6NA.


----------



## spiwrx

Something new to the line sneaking in under the radar: 
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369830.pdf

Based on their Vierti Dimmer style. What they are Calling the Grafik T Dimmer:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Switches/GrafikT/Overview.aspx


----------



## az1324

Vierti has had some nice product placement on Extant.


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> Something new to the line sneaking in under the radar:
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369830.pdf
> 
> Based on their Vierti Dimmer style. What they are Calling the Grafik T Dimmer:
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Switches/GrafikT/Overview.aspx


Spoke to them briefly about this at CEDIA... They will create a dual-gang faceplate with one decora cutout to allow for ganging with another device. Any larger ganging will require a special order faceplate. The T dimmer is taller than a decora opening. The look and feel/operation of the T dimmer is very cool. Not for my decor, but very cool...

Jeff


----------



## rapamatic

jautor said:


> Spoke to them briefly about this at CEDIA... They will create a dual-gang faceplate with one decora cutout to allow for ganging with another device. Any larger ganging will require a special order faceplate. The T dimmer is taller than a decora opening. The look and feel/operation of the T dimmer is very cool. Not for my decor, but very cool...


The tech specs above show a few different faceplate options at the end... 

I like the clean design (like the homeworks keypads) where there isn't a standard decord cutout and then button cutouts... I agree though, limited applications both in terms of aesthetics... I wonder if the guts are more like a 6CL or a 6NA... it does have an optional neutral connection, which is interesting...


----------



## wkearney99

The high-end Pallodium controls (HWQS only) were very impressive looking. Could be RA2 options in the future.

Saw the Vierti and really didn't think much of it. Yeah, it's cool and all, but I don't see much uptake. A multi-gang setup of it would just look... odd.

Beat them up on the glaring obviousness that is Caseta & RA2 being exactly the same RF tech. Stressed doing 'rip and replace' is NOT going to fly with moving DIY customers up to RA2. *ESPECIALLY* not with with the Serena shades. There was a degree of acceptance to the notion. It'd be trivial for the RA2 software to integrate them, so there's hope... just not at the present time. Could be there won't be enough uptake of the Caseta to make it worthwhile.

The version 8 software looks slick. Especially the HWQS editing tools. I couldn't make it to the training classes (too close to my departure time).

The new 4 button Pico was shown. Individually programmable buttons, along with custom engraving. Likely $100 due to the engraving. I asked about being able to purchase blank ones and they didn't have that planned. One rep said just order an engraved one and leave them blank (which is a huge waste of money). Another integrator pointed out engraving them 1 through 4 would be in-keeping with the way the old Grafik Eye units were set up. 

I could definitely see it being useful for an integrator to have a dozen or so of these to loan to customers. Scenes and such aren't always (or can't be) well-thought out ahead of time. Being able to use blank ones with tape labels (Brother) would be a good interim tool. Once the button purposes are all thought out then engraved ones could be purchased. They said that was an option worth considering.

They also showed the Smartbridge for Caseta. But, really, it's just a dumbed down main repeater.

So nothing ground-breaking from Lutron. Still a great product line though.


----------



## howieumd

Can Serena be setup through RadioRA 2 via DIY alterations? Just wondering, doesn't make sense to me why they can't be, but never played around with it.


----------



## rapamatic

Thanks for sharing your notes from CEDIA!

My biggest gripe with caseta is that they are getting access to a lot of new tech (iOS Homekit, the new Logitech Harmony remotes) but RR2 isn't getting access to this. I know that a lot of higher end (integrator-only) remotes can work with RR2, but as a DIY RR2 user, it would be great to have more control options that just work out of the box...

I like the idea of a 4-button pico, and even a $100 list is much better than $300 for a keypad, plus, obviously, a lot better placement flexibility...


----------



## howieumd

Also, I had a quick question I was hoping somebody might have an answer to, as I never got a reply from Lutron's direct forum. I have a RadioRA 2 system that I installed and setup myself after getting approved and am in the process of ordering Sivoia QS wireless shades for some of the windows in my house. I have an older drapery that I haven't upgraded that is for a big sliding glass door for an upstairs balcony. It is motorized and uses RF, but due to the cost of the Lutron drapery system, I don't plan to upgrade it any time soon (hope to some day). That said, is there a way I can control my older one with my RadioRA 2 system? It has dry contacts that can control open, close, and stop functions. I noticed there's a somewhat newer RF Contact Closure Output Module (which is only available for some reason to those with Inclusive software), but what I believe I'd need is an RF contact closure input module, which I'm assuming doesn't exist yet, outside of the VCRX, correct? The problem is, I have a VCRX, but it's a floor below and on the opposite side of the house near the garage, so was wondering if there was another module that could work (RF CCO module sounds perfect if there was a similar RF CCI) that I could use to hook up just to this drapery system that I have? Or am I thinking about this backwards and the RF CCO module is exactly what I need? Just wondering my options. Thank you.


----------



## rapamatic

howieumd said:


> Also, I had a quick question I was hoping somebody might have an answer to, as I never got a reply from Lutron's direct forum. I have a RadioRA 2 system that I installed and setup myself after getting approved and am in the process of ordering Sivoia QS wireless shades for some of the windows in my house. I have an older drapery that I haven't upgraded that is for a big sliding glass door for an upstairs balcony. It is motorized and uses RF, but due to the cost of the Lutron drapery system, I don't plan to upgrade it any time soon (hope to some day). That said, is there a way I can control my older one with my RadioRA 2 system? It has dry contacts that can control open, close, and stop functions. I noticed there's a somewhat newer RF Contact Closure Output Module (which is only available for some reason to those with Inclusive software), but what I believe I'd need is an RF contact closure input module, which I'm assuming doesn't exist yet, outside of the VCRX, correct? The problem is, I have a VCRX, but it's a floor below and on the opposite side of the house near the garage, so was wondering if there was another module that could work (RF CCO module sounds perfect if there was a similar RF CCI) that I could use to hook up just to this drapery system that I have? Or am I thinking about this backwards and the RF CCO module is exactly what I need? Just wondering my options. Thank you.


You need a CCO module... since you can' tget the RF softswitch, I'd suggest just another VCRX. You'd use the CCO to close the dry contacts on the sliding drapery controller. The CCOs on the VCRX aren't powered, and I don't know what the inputs are on the drapery control - can you just short a wire across them or do they need current? If the later, you may need to wire a small power supply into the CCOs on the VCRX...

But, a VCRX seems the best bet.


----------



## howieumd

rapamatic said:


> You need a CCO module... since you can' tget the RF softswitch, I'd suggest just another VCRX. You'd use the CCO to close the dry contacts on the sliding drapery controller. The CCOs on the VCRX aren't powered, and I don't know what the inputs are on the drapery control - can you just short a wire across them or do they need current? If the later, you may need to wire a small power supply into the CCOs on the VCRX...
> 
> But, a VCRX seems the best bet.


Thank you. Another VCRX to just control one thing seems like a bit overkill, but was afraid it might be my only option. In case it helps, I've included the diagram of the relays from the manufacturer of the drapery system I have


----------



## wkearney99

You can always add another VCRX... Locating it nearer to the shade control. That's probably your most direct route to solving the problem.

The whole Exclusive/Inclusive tier is just plain stupid. Talk with your supplier or regional Lutron rep.


----------



## rapamatic

howieumd said:


> Thank you. Another VCRX to just control one thing seems like a bit overkill, but was afraid it might be my only option. In case it helps, I've included the diagram of the relays from the manufacturer of the drapery system I have


Yeah, just a plain CCO would work, based on that diagram. Looks like the single button control may be your best bet - thats basically the same as the lutron single button shade control...


----------



## wkearney99

howieumd said:


> Can Serena be setup through RadioRA 2 via DIY alterations? Just wondering, doesn't make sense to me why they can't be, but never played around with it.


Not currently. There's device databases in the Caseta and RA2 hubs that will only listen to certain device IDs. They're using EXACTLY the same RF techniques and protocols. It's just that the Caseta software won't listen to RA2 devices, and vice-versa. For the Caseta line I can understand this, as some devices like keypads are going to have more features. But for RA2 to not be able to listen to them just smacks of management being overly controlling of the market segments. 

It's leaving the door open to lesser quality crap and the negative PR pressure risks of this game. Think back to Apple trying to pull this nonsense with their OS software only recognizing over-priced Apple hard drives (which literally had nothing more than a hex byte changed in the firmware). This just to exclude 3rd party hard drives. The same kind of nonsense is at play here. 

Hopefully there will be enough sales of the lower-end gear to give Lutron the kind of incentive needed to have an 'upgrade' plan that doesn't involve rip-and-replace. Meanwhile anyone looking to save some money getting Serena shades instead of the EXACT SAME ONES in Sivoia QS are out of luck. You're going to pay more and get nothing other than RA2 control (assuming all you want is the same basic materials as available in Serena).


----------



## rapamatic

wkearney99 said:


> The whole Exclusive/Inclusive tier is just plain stupid. Talk with your supplier or regional Lutron rep.


I agree. Seems like a very arbitrary distinction and they keep some cool stuff inclusive-only...

That being said, I have heard there may be some flexibility around allowing a homeowner to get inclusive certified... but I think you still do have to go through the in person training... I personally plan to cross that bridge when it becomes necessary - I still have room under the 100 device cap and don't have a need (yet) for the inclusive-only stuff...


----------



## howieumd

rapamatic said:


> Yeah, just a plain CCO would work, based on that diagram. Looks like the single button control may be your best bet - thats basically the same as the lutron single button shade control...


Thanks again. And just to confirm, is the model # of what I'd need LMJ-16R-DV-B? Now I just need to find a way to get the Inclusive software, since I just have access to Essentials. Maybe the next update will allow integrating this into Essentials, who knows.


----------



## rapamatic

howieumd said:


> Thanks again. And just to confirm, is the model # of what I'd need LMJ-16R-DV-B? Now I just need to find a way to get the Inclusive software, since I just have access to Essentials. Maybe the next update will allow integrating this into Essentials, who knows.


If I were you I'd just get the VCRX, since that would work today with Essentials... The RF softswitch would work, but it is only one relay (its designed for switching 110 v devices), whereas a VCRX has 4 CCO outputs, not to mention the inputs and other features...


----------



## howieumd

wkearney99 said:


> Meanwhile anyone looking to save some money getting Serena shades instead of the EXACT SAME ONES in Sivoia QS are out of luck. You're going to pay more and get nothing other than RA2 control (assuming all you want is the same basic materials as available in Serena).



I am recently authorized for Sivoia QS Triathlon, and putting together some quotes for myself and a few friends, but the prices are just unnecessary as you state for the extra integration for RR2. Plus the fact that Serena can be ordered online directly by the consumer makes them that more attractive along with the cost. Maybe some day they'll allow RR2 to control them. 


I initially thought maybe by getting the Sivoia QS Wireless Receiver (QSYC4-RCVR) and wiring them into Serena's, but those aren't cheap anyways and I am doubtful it'd work, though haven't researched it enough to know for sure.


----------



## howieumd

rapamatic said:


> If I were you I'd just get the VCRX, since that would work today with Essentials... The RF softswitch would work, but it is only one relay (its designed for switching 110 v devices), whereas a VCRX has 4 CCO outputs, not to mention the inputs and other features...


I agree there's definitely more functionality to another VCRX, but it's like $225 vs $80 and there's nothing else I can ever think of that I'd need to wire in addition to this at that location on the VCRX should I put another one there. Plus I have another sliding glass door in the basement theater room that if this works, I can put another similar drapery system in as it costs about 10% of the cost of Lutrons, so again, now looking at a 3rd VCRX or these single LMJ-16R-DV-B modules, software (Essentials vs Inclusive) aside of course in that comparison. I'm sure there's a way to get my hands on the Inclusive if need be.


----------



## wkearney99

Given you say the shades have 3 closures I'd go with the VCRX. That way you've got as complete a layer of control as the shade hardware supports. This is key, because just using one would likely involve some sort of external relays, and possibly some wife-annoying lack of precision over controlling it 'properly'.


----------



## wkearney99

Pulling wire and spend a few dollars more is undoubtedly worth it when it comes to not having something that'll annoy you or the wife. 

Don't be 'penny wise and pound foolish'. This comes up a lot WRT stuff like HWQS. RA2 gets a lot of the same thinking at Lutron, thus the disconnect regarding the software. It's dumb and RA2 is a great DIY solution.


----------



## howieumd

wkearney99 said:


> Pulling wire and spend a few dollars more is undoubtedly worth it when it comes to not having something that'll annoy you or the wife. Don't be 'penny wise and pound foolish'. This comes up a lot WRT stuff like HWQS. RA2 gets a lot of the same thinking at Lutron, thus the disconnect regarding the software. It's dumb and RA2 is a great DIY solution.


Haha...ok, I agree with you there. So 1 more VCRX near the drapery system on my upstairs balcony...then run a wire from the basement drapery system to the VCRX where my upstairs balcony is and that VCRX can control both systems fully? Or does the VCRX need 6 outputs to do full control (and it only has 4?)....in which case a VCRX in both locations?


----------



## rapamatic

howieumd said:


> Haha...ok, I agree with you there. So 1 more VCRX near the drapery system on my upstairs balcony...then run a wire from the basement drapery system to the VCRX where my upstairs balcony is and that VCRX can control both systems fully? Or does the VCRX need 6 outputs to do full control (and it only has 4?)....in which case a VCRX in both locations?


Looking at your schematic, I think you can control the shade with just one CCO and one keypad button (do you really want 3 keypad buttons used to control the shade?). Push the button once, the shade starts closing. Push it again, it stops. Push it again it starts opening, and push it again and it stops. Fairly easy to comprehend, and most of the time only requires a single button press (i.e. you are trying to open or close the shade fully)...

So, if you wire it that way, one VCRX could control 4 shades....


----------



## howieumd

rapamatic said:


> Looking at your schematic, I think you can control the shade with just one CCO and one keypad button (do you really want 3 keypad buttons used to control the shade?). Push the button once, the shade starts closing. Push it again, it stops. Push it again it starts opening, and push it again and it stops. Fairly easy to comprehend, and most of the time only requires a single button press (i.e. you are trying to open or close the shade fully)...
> 
> So, if you wire it that way, one VCRX could control 4 shades....



That makes sense too. I haven't got any keypads or remotes yet, but yes, 3 buttons might be overkill for one shade. I do everything with my iPhone/iPad and use a lot of timers and scenes, but keypads are definitely next on the list.


----------



## wkearney99

When you have separate closures you have the option of controlling them that way. As in, a time of day scheduled action for opening or closing. Using just one as a hold doesn't allow for that. At least not without wandering into the fiddle-factor territory, where the wife starts making 'that face' regarding the gadgets...

If you want to save money then having just the closures for open & close would allow two shades on one VCRX. Which begs the question of how much do you want to be able to control stopping it somewhere else? 

I suppose you could do something like keep the existing controls and have the automation system operating in parallel. That way any point you want to trigger it from (events, keypads, apps, etc) would only be able to do open & close. But a local control would allow for the stop/start. Might be the best of both scenarios.


----------



## rapamatic

wkearney99 said:


> When you have separate closures you have the option of controlling them that way. As in, a time of day scheduled action for opening or closing. Using just one as a hold doesn't allow for that. At least not without wandering into the fiddle-factor territory, where the wife starts making 'that face' regarding the gadgets...


Good point. I hadn't thought of scheduling options.... all of my automated shades are Lutron, so while I use a single button to manually control them, I do have them open or close on a schedule, and that is very convenient.

So I would modify my suggestion to try to have a separate control in the VCRX for open and close... presumably that could be done with two CCOs....


----------



## wkearney99

tritium6 said:


> My electrician is concerned that if we pull power for a keypad from a nearby outlet, like I had suggested, that it might interfere with the keypad if we are running a vacuum cleaner from that outlet. Has anyone bumped into that kind of problem before? Is the only solution to run a dedicated circuit for the keypads, as the electrician suggested?


Your electrician sounds like he just wants to charge more for adding that circuit...

Even if it interfered, which is _VERY_ unlikely, how often is the vacuum going to be run anyway? What's the chance it's going to be active when anyone needs the keypad's control? Again, _highly unlikely_. Someone's going to have the vacuum in-hand and then suddenly need to flip on a light?


----------



## az1324

wkearney99 said:


> They also showed the Smartbridge for Caseta. But, really, it's just a dumbed down main repeater.


Ironically a big hardware upgrade though.


----------



## pgwalsh

*RA1, RA2 and Blinds*

I have Radio RA1 in my house which was installed by the previous owner. I've been in the process trying to get motorized blinds installed in the house, but would like to have a fair amount of control. 

I looked at Serena, but realized it didn't offer quite what I wanted, so I guess it makes more sense to go with Sovoia? I almost went with Hunter Douglas, though I know it's not compatible with Lutron, but they offer plenty of control for our use. The problem was the door blinds couldn't be installed flush because of the batter pack. I'm not sure which Sovoia to go with and haven't had any luck finding dealers who know what they're talking about and will spend the time with me. 

In the future I plan to upgrade the lights, but I don't know wether to go with RA2 or HWQS? I'm leaning to HWQS. I know either way, every wall switch will need to be replaced and that's not going to be cheap.


----------



## wkearney99

Right, moving from RA1 requires rip-and-replace. But unless there's something your lighting doesn't do now there's no pressing reason to upgrade.

Sivioia comes in a lot of different styles, honeycomb, roller, venetian, vertical and horizontal (think Silhouette style). Serena comes in honeycomb only, but are less expensive.

I'm considered Hunter Douglass for a couple of rooms because they offer a bottom-up mechanism. The master bath and living rooms would work better with that style. 

HWQS offers an even greater range of automation options than RA2 but does come at a greater expense. Like double. For larger homes it's definitely worth considering, if only because RA2 supports up to 200 devices. RA2's device limit would likely more than cover a typical 6BR house. More than that and HWQS is probably worth considering. 

When you start including shades the device counts really add up.


----------



## pgwalsh

wkearney99 said:


> Right, moving from RA1 requires rip-and-replace. But unless there's something your lighting doesn't do now there's no pressing reason to upgrade.
> 
> Sivioia comes in a lot of different styles, honeycomb, roller, venetian, vertical and horizontal (think Silhouette style). Serena comes in honeycomb only, but are less expensive.
> 
> I'm considered Hunter Douglass for a couple of rooms because they offer a bottom-up mechanism. The master bath and living rooms would work better with that style.
> 
> HWQS offers an even greater range of automation options than RA2 but does come at a greater expense. Like double. For larger homes it's definitely worth considering, if only because RA2 supports up to 200 devices. RA2's device limit would likely more than cover a typical 6BR house. More than that and HWQS is probably worth considering.
> 
> When you start including shades the device counts really add up.


Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. I don't see a need to upgrade from RA1 right now. We do have a 6 bedroom house 10k sqft, but things seem to be fine for now. 

We're only doing the windows in our kitchen and family room which are next to each other and the blinds will be the same color (accord to my wife). The family room has 4 large windows and the kitchen has one where the blinds will need to be flush mounted. For that reason we're not inclined to go with HunterDouglas, which is a shame because we like everything else about the shades. We live at 7000 ft and we need all the help we can get from blinds for insulation. 

The reason I thought of not going with Serena is the lack of controls. I'd like to have the blinds scheduled to go up and down at specific times and also be triggered by sunlight - when it hits the windows etc. Not only do we need protection from the cold in winter, but we have lots of real wood trim that needs protection. 

The other aspect is that we have an ELAN music system throughout the house, but that too needs an upgrade. I started another thread regarding that issue, but garnered few reposes. 

My apologies for the off topic issues.


----------



## therockhr

Does anyone know if Radio RA 2 has any plans to add the Honeywell Wifi thermostat to its system? The Smart Bridge has this and I was hoping RA2 would get the ability to control it as well.

Also, I know that a Honeywell security system can be used to trigger events in RA2 by connecting it to the main repeater. Does anyone know if Lutron has any plans to have the security system be controlled via the Home Control app or Lutron keypads? It would be nice to be able to arm and disarm the security system via the Lutron app.

Thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

I seem to recall there are developments planned for more RA2 & thermostat interaction. I didn't hear about anything regarding security and the app. It's not been my area of interest. But consider there are ways to use 3rd party programs to interact with the system. You can track buttons via the Ethernet connection on the main repeater. Then use that to trigger something in the outside programs.

I did ask about the annoying thermostat 'advertisement' in the app. The option to not show it is coming in the next release, which would presumably coincide with the version 8 release of the PC program.

I forgot to ask at the show (but will probably ask it on the lutron forums) as to whether there will be a way to default what comes up for each room. I'd prefer to have some rooms show the keypad as the default view instead of the dimmers. Or at least have the app remember that last choice.

Lutron does seem very tuned into avoiding too much confusion regarding feature parity. So Caseta having "more" than RA2 (wrt the SmartBridge) does seem like something they'd be interested in addressing in the near future. But it wouldn't hurt to bring it to their attention.


----------



## schalliol

therockhr said:


> Does anyone know if Radio RA 2 has any plans to add the Honeywell Wifi thermostat to its system?


The Lutron TouchPro is a Honeywell thermostat that operates on ClearConnect so it can work with the system. I have one in my system and like it a bunch. When I press away, the temp rolls back, etc.


----------



## az1324

schalliol said:


> The Lutron TouchPro is a Honeywell thermostat that operates on ClearConnect so it can work with the system. I have one in my system and like it a bunch. When I press away, the temp rolls back, etc.


Sure, but caseta is compatible with 7 Honeywell models including color screen voice activated and they are all cheaper than touchpro.


----------



## dgage

az1324 said:


> Sure, but caseta is compatible with 7 Honeywell models including color screen voice activated and they are all cheaper than touchpro.


I don't even understand why Lutron felt the need to bring another line to market. It's too late now but if I were buying a lighting line today, I'd probably bypass Lutron since they seem schizophrenic in terms of lines and capabilities...too much dilution right now. I hope it shakes out well but right now I have to say I'm not exactly pleased with the investment I've made in RadioRa2 and it is all Lutrons doing, the product itself is fine if a little light on software capabilities.


----------



## schalliol

dgage said:


> I don't even understand why Lutron felt the need to bring another line to market. It's too late now but if I were buying a lighting line today, I'd probably bypass Lutron since they seem schizophrenic in terms of lines and capabilities...too much dilution right now. I hope it shakes out well but right now I have to say I'm not exactly pleased with the investment I've made in RadioRa2 and it is all Lutrons doing, the product itself is fine if a little light on software capabilities.


They wanted a closed system using 434MHz ClearConnect, which makes some sense because it can talk directly to the repeater without IP, but I agree extensibility is a good thing.


----------



## az1324

dgage said:


> I don't even understand why Lutron felt the need to bring another line to market. It's too late now but if I were buying a lighting line today, I'd probably bypass Lutron since they seem schizophrenic in terms of lines and capabilities...too much dilution right now. I hope it shakes out well but right now I have to say I'm not exactly pleased with the investment I've made in RadioRa2 and it is all Lutrons doing, the product itself is fine if a little light on software capabilities.


Because the big box stores want affordable automation products and they place huge orders.


----------



## MoG

*RadioRa 2 vs. Caseta*

ahhhh...I see i'm not the only one thinking about this... i'm in the early stages of building a new house and am trying to figure out what HA solutions I want. I keep getting confused when trying to compare Caseta to RadioRa2 as it appears that Caseta is more extensible and better able to be integrated into other solutions like SmartThings, HomeKit, IFTTT, etc??



dgage said:


> I don't even understand why Lutron felt the need to bring another line to market. It's too late now but if I were buying a lighting line today, I'd probably bypass Lutron since they seem schizophrenic in terms of lines and capabilities...too much dilution right now. I hope it shakes out well but right now I have to say I'm not exactly pleased with the investment I've made in RadioRa2 and it is all Lutrons doing, the product itself is fine if a little light on software capabilities.


----------



## trx250r87

*WANTED: RA2 dimmer and switch color kit's Light Almond*

I'm looking to purchase or trade color change kits for RA2 in Light Almond. I have a couple different colors to trade, mostly WH. Please PM me with details if you can help.


Eric


----------



## jautor

trx250r87 said:


> I'm looking to purchase or trade color change kits for RA2 in Light Almond. I have a couple different colors to trade, mostly WH. Please PM me with details if you can help.


(I can't help you directly because I went the same color direction - from anything TO Light Almond...  )

FYI - I found the best way to handle this is to purchase the bulk 10-packs from a Lutron dealer, as that gets the cost (with shipping) down to around $3/kit. Lutron has IIRC a 10-pack of dimmer kits (works for all RadioRA2 dimmer types - RRD/6NA/CL), and a mix pack of dimmers and switch kits. I used both of these since I tended to grab any cheap RA2 dimmer/switch I could find regardless of color. Amazing how much cheaper the "weird" colors go on the secondary market... And you reminded me that I really need to post a classified for my quantity of white and ivory kits after all my change-out.

Jeff


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> (I can't help you directly because I went the same color direction - from anything TO Light Almond...  )
> 
> FYI - I found the best way to handle this is to purchase the bulk 10-packs from a Lutron dealer, as that gets the cost (with shipping) down to around $3/kit. Lutron has IIRC a 10-pack of dimmer kits (works for all dimmer types), and a mix pack of dimmers and switch kits. I used both of these since I tended to grab any cheap RA2 dimmer/switch I could find regardless of color. Amazing how much cheaper the "weird" colors go on the secondary market... And you reminded me that I really need to post a classified for my quantity of white and ivory kits after all my change-out.
> 
> Jeff


Jeff is right. This is the best way to purchase them if you need that many, though the price just went up substantially, so I wouldn't count on getting those prices much longer. Also, to clarify, they don't work on all dimmers, just the latest model Maestro style with the pull out FASS _(air gap Switch as opposed to to the old style with the side to side FASS switch, still used on some non-RR2 Maestro type devices.)_. And note there are different ones for dimmers, switches, RD, RS, Fan control, etc... 

FWIW, for some of their "packages" they also offer color change kits for the included parts of some of the more popular ones.


----------



## spiwrx

This conversation, argument, or whatever you want to call it comes up all the time. 
Caseta vs. RR2. vs. HW

So it basically comes down to how much money you have to spend on your Home Automation (HA) project vs. what kinda of functionality you can afford. It's really that simple. 

Caseta _(think of Spacer, Spacer System, Maestro RF, etc.. this is basically the evolution of those lines)_ is the bottom of the list and really intended for room or small home/office control. Basically allows you to connect up to 50 devices with only a few choices: Switch, Dimmer, Pico & Bridge. If you can't communicate in range of you "System Bridge" your stuck, if you have a special lighting load, your stuck, if you have more than 600watts you're stuck. It's really just the least expensive option to be able to control lights from your phone. Will they expand the line? Probably, slightly. Will they have an upgrade path, likely not. Remember the Caseta is very new, I'm sure there will be a lot of 3rd party integrators if you opt for the "pro" bridge. Lutron also throws you a bone with the Caseta system with easy to use app only programming and free VPN. Also works with any honeywell wifi thermostat. So you can do a small basic system on the cheap with some pretty cool features. 

Radio Ra 2 (RR2) fills the biggest void. They have made this easily accessible for most of us afford, use & program. We all have a wish list of something more we would like from it, and sometimes Lutron has listened and produced. RR2 has more control (load) specific options than any other HA lighting control and as a lighting control system is pretty bullet proof. Biggest downside, no conditional programming without some VCRX sorcery or 3rd party requirement. RR2 covers most size homes I would say up to 5000sqft, but at a point (>3000sqft) you probably want to consider HW. Let me say this, if you are spending more than 10k on RR2(parts only) you should really entertain HW. Most people really love the RR2 system, If you are disappointed because it won't do something keep digging here, there are a lot of contributors to this thread that have made it do some pretty incredible things or found 3rd party stuff to compensate for what should have probably been an HW project. 

Homeworks (HW). If you have better than 10k or likely a lot more to spend on a small HA system then maybe HW is for you. If you have that kind of money to spend you probably are not troubling yourself reading through this thread. You just want it done and you want it to work. Upside is some conditional programming, more parts and pieces to expand what and how you can control. Downsides are obvious, money mainly, training & space for equipment. You'll likely need at least a decent closet or hopefully more space to place some of the HW components. You have to pay for training and Lutron has traditionally made it fairly difficult and expensive to be trained with plenty of roadblocks / requirements. They will accommodate you if you try hard enough though, and then bill you accordingly for extra support / setup if you don't have previous experience. A lot of you do some very complicated stuff with your HA and AV systems, a lot more technical than you likely need for HW but from their point of view on a service and support level I would see why they would keep this controlled. To the same point they do a fair job of protecting those that have made the HW training investment. 

You have to remember or realize that prior to RR2, Radio Ra "Classic" was extremely more limited and exponentially more difficult to program. RR2 took a big cut into the HW jobs, as I think in their estimation at the time of release, RR2 would be able to accommodate 60% of what would have been HW jobs. You can argue the numbers but the gain was opening up a level of HA to a huge market that due to cost would have likely just not done any HA. At the same time they reduced the cost compared to original RR "classic". So the RR2 release killed some HW, but what it really did was open up HA to the rest of us.

Argue away....


----------



## dgage

Paul - You are so out in left field that I don't know where to begin...just kidding...thanks for the history lesson. In the light you put it in, that makes RR2 pretty nice but it seems like Caseta is getting cool new stuff and RR2 is lagging behind. Just a viewpoint and I'm used to things trickling down, not up, so who knows if RR2 will get more parity with Caseta functionality. I've made the investment in RR2 and I'm not unhappy but don't like seeing the new kid get cooler integration.


----------



## az1324

The worst part is that even if you want to pay the premium for a Grafik T dimmer you can't use it with Caseta, even though it is still just a dimmer and you could probably hack support for it into the Smart Bridge within 5 minutes. And even if you wanted to pay for an aux repeater, you can't use it either even though the Smart Bridge most likely already supports it. Some things are just too punitive. 

No keypads on caseta (maybe hope for 4 button pico?) and no wired links on RA2 is at least somewhat reasonable.


----------



## wkearney99

I think expecting the Caseta target market to even _grasp _what a Grafik T modules DOES is pretty remote. Hell, even I don't bother making use of them as I don't like the look.


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> You can argue the numbers but the gain was opening up a level of HA to a huge market that due to cost would have likely just not done any HA. At the same time they reduced the cost compared to original RR "classic". So the RR2 release killed some HW, but what it really did was open up HA to the rest of us.


This is exactly why I am here. I have a friend that has a HW system, and saw what it could do, but certainly was not going to shell out for anything near there. 

So I discovered that I could complete the RadioRA training and install myself starting small. Now I now have most of my house complete. The phased adds, and the fact that I can program the system myself are the big motivators for me.


----------



## tritium6

My electrician installed my RR2 dimmers in metal boxes despite my request to use plastic. Am I correct in thinking that I need to insist that he replace these with plastic boxes to enable the radio signal to permeate the box?


----------



## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> My electrician installed my RR2 dimmers in metal boxes despite my request to use plastic. Am I correct in thinking that I need to insist that he replace these with plastic boxes to enable the radio signal to permeate the box?


Nope, they will be fine in metal boxes. I have a 4000 sg ft home, with only one main repeater, and everything works fine. Being in the Chicagoland area, everything is run through conduit and into metal boxes. I do use lutron plastic switchplates. 

Lutron put a lot of thought and engineering into RR2, I'm sure they thought of metal switch boxes


----------



## tritium6

I called the Lutron tech support line and they verified that RadioRa2 dimmers can communicate through metal wallboxes without a problem.


----------



## wkearney99

The RA dimmers will work in metal. The faceplate is plastic, so there's your radiating point. I'd imagine a metal box would be less convenient. 

Is this new construction? What size is the house? 

RA2 speaks from the switches to their paired main repeater. You may want to test things to make sure your placement of the repeater(s) is going to provide effective coverage. For up to 100 devices you can use 1 main repeater and then another 4 auxiliary repeaters slaved to it. For more than 100 devices you can add a 2nd main repeater and, likewise, another 4 aux repeaters. The aux repeaters can be up to 60' from their paired main repeater. It's also possible to hard-wire a link between them.

If you've got any switches that are more than about 30 direct feet away from the repeater you may need to either move it or add an aux repeater. I moved our two main repeaters to the 1st floor office closet, a location about dead-center in reach to all devices. It had been previously placed in the basement, about 1/3 from the front, but hard to the left side of the house. A few dimmers in the second floor master suite were intermittent in getting programming. They were about 50' from the repeater, drawing a direct line. The new repeater location puts them all within 40'. That 10' made a difference.

Perhaps you could rig up a few of the most distant devices and make sure they're functioning as expected. 

If not I'd still lean toward using a different location or aux repeaters. Why? Because plastic ones are notoriously crappy at presenting a level box. All too often they're crooked 'just enough' to be annoying. Especially when you get into 2 gang or more sizes. This only gets worse when the drywall crew gets sloppy...


----------



## schalliol

*RadioRa2 Dual Occupancy Sensors?*

I've forgotten this from training, can you put a pair of occupancy sensors in a large space to make it such that if either sensor sees activity for the predetermined time the light stays on and it only turns off if neither have seen activity for the preset time? I want to do this in a garage and not turn off if say, I'm vacuuming out a car from in between cars (not seen from one sensor but seen from another).

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> I've forgotten this from training, can you put a pair of occupancy sensors in a large space to make it such that if either sensor sees activity for the predetermined time the light stays on and it only turns off if neither have seen activity for the preset time? I want to do this in a garage and not turn off if say, I'm vacuuming out a car from in between cars (not seen from one sensor but seen from another).
> 
> Thanks!


We just ran into this for a different problem, however if you place both sensors in the same "room" in the program, they will essentially be paralleled as you are asking (act together) and in fact cannot be programmed independently.

We wanted them to act differently even though they are mounted in the same room physically, so we could set a sort of conditional. We wanted one to set a certain light level (same group of lights) during the day and a higher level at night. In the program we had to tell the software it was mounted in a different "room" to be able to do this.


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> My electrician installed my RR2 dimmers in metal boxes despite my request to use plastic. Am I correct in thinking that I need to insist that he replace these with plastic boxes to enable the radio signal to permeate the box?


I also have plenty of customers doing this and it doesn't seem to affect anything. I think in Ra Classic this was more of an issue. The range of most of their components are understated.


----------



## spiwrx

Do you guys subscribing to this thread also have intermittent notifications? Seems like I see nothing in my email notifications (set to daily), and then check in occasionally to find several posts. Frustrating..


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> Do you guys subscribing to this thread also have intermittent notifications? Seems like I see nothing in my email notifications (set to daily), and then check in occasionally to find several posts. Frustrating..


The issue is that by default, it will only alert you once to a new post, and then not again unless you access the thread while logged in.

This is from my alert emails:


> There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.


----------



## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> The issue is that by default, it will only alert you once to a new post, and then not again unless you access the thread while logged in.
> 
> This is from my alert emails:


I never was one to read the directions until there was a problem. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me!!!


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> I never was one to read the directions until there was a problem.


Don't lick the black wire.


----------



## cayley

*would you share it?*



shaun5 said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *shaun5*
> I am curious what everyone is looking for in an app and if what I have is marketable....
> 
> I wrote a web app almost 4 years ago for my Ra2 system: Interface has sliders for dimmers, buttons for switches/scenes, scene recorder that records the state of all the switches/ dimmers that can be altered and 'played back' , 2 way communication for all the dimmers/buttons/scenes. Server side interlocks (turn one light on/off and it turns another on/off), conditional logic for occupancy.
> 
> 
> I have completely rewritten my app to run on a Raspberry Pi which will cut the cost by 1/3 to a plug and use system. If anyone is interested in adding my additional functionality (or the functionality suggested by others) to a RA2 system send me a PM...


I am trying to connect a Raspberry Pi to my Lutron RadioRA RF system. Would you share the app / steps / source code? Thx


----------



## spiwrx

cayley said:


> I am trying to connect a Raspberry Pi to my Lutron RadioRA RF system. Would you share the app / steps / source code? Thx


Think he was trying to market/sell this not sure if it ever went anywhere.


----------



## user12345678

spiwrx said:


> Think he was trying to market/sell this not sure if it ever went anywhere.


I have sent a PM to him/her, but didn't get a response... 

The most recent synopsis of my project can be found here. I didn't mention the specifics possible with RA2 there, but I have ported over all the past functionality. Plethora is in it's infancy, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in ANY scenario (where IP, RS232 and/or IR protocol was available/could be learned/reverse engineered). I have Dynaudio Air monitors that use a proprietary protocol. I ended up reverse engineering the RS232 commands to integrate the speakers into my system...


----------



## markrubin

Lutron QS shades: a huge disappointment

I spent several thousand dollars investing in Lutron QS wireless shades a couple of years ago: and initially liked them: but not anymore: I have had several shades go bad (motor issue related) and each time it takes months to get an adjustment

currently I have one shade that goes down but not up: I get the red blinking trouble light and called Lutron: they gave me a case number and said it would be replaced under warranty: that was the start of my latest problem: Lutron said I had to go through my dealer for the replacement: my dealer said he has had nothing but trouble with Lutron shades and after several months I still have not gotten anywhere in getting a new shade (dealer says he has moved on from Lutron to another shade manufacturer) 

To any member that bought Lutron shades on my recommendation, I apologize: I will never recommend them again

thanks for listening: I have a case number if anyone can help...


----------



## DMILANI

Hi Mark.

Are these the Honeycomb shades (battery powered)? If so, I was just about to place a fairly large order. Now I'm second guessing that based on your comments. 

Thanks,
Dino


----------



## Neurorad

Sorry to hear, Mark.

I've never heard anything bad, before this, about Lutron shades.

Is this at your beach house? Maybe the salt air has something to do with it?

I'm a little surprised Lutron won't step up, now that your installer has changed to a different manufacturer.

Maybe you could reach out to a local Lutron rep. The one near me knows everybody in the area, and has answers.


----------



## markrubin

DMILANI said:


> Hi Mark.
> 
> Are these the Honeycomb shades (battery powered)? If so, I was just about to place a fairly large order. Now I'm second guessing that based on your comments.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dino


Dino

yes they are honeycomb battery powered


----------



## markrubin

update:

just got an email from Lutron:

Good afternoon Mark. I am glad that you reached out direct to us and apologize for the lack of support from our former dealer. We will take care of remaking line 4 for you and shipping it to your address below. The ship date is set for 11/13/14. Attached is your return RMA so that you can return the defective shade once the new shade arrives. Thank you and please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> update:
> 
> just got an email from Lutron:
> 
> Good afternoon Mark. I am glad that you reached out direct to us and apologize for the lack of support from our former dealer. We will take care of remaking line 4 for you and shipping it to your address below. The ship date is set for 11/13/14. Attached is your return RMA so that you can return the defective shade once the new shade arrives. Thank you and please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.


Mark, sorry to hear about this. I haven't ever searched reviews on their shades but they are known to be one of the best. You have me concerned as I have ordered / sold this product many times with no issues only praise. I wonder if there is any other variable that is contributing to your problem?? (Environment, fabric weight, battery type, etc... ) Anyway, please keep us updated. 

It is an inconvenience for sure, but Lutron typically stands behind their products and warranties very well.


----------



## markrubin

Paul

thanks

it appears I ended up in the middle of a dispute between a (previously authorized) dealer and Lutron: it had nothing to do with my issue but I don't think I should have been inconvenienced by it

I am hoping this will finally be resolved....I will post here when/ if it is resolved


----------



## markrubin

Happy to report I got the replacement shade direct from Lutron last night:

I wonder if someone can give me the steps needed to activate it in the program?

I am using RR2 7.5

if I recall correctly, I can go into the activation screen and change the serial number and activate the new one?

TIA


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> Happy to report I got the replacement shade direct from Lutron last night:
> 
> I wonder if someone can give me the steps needed to activate it in the program?
> 
> I am using RR2 7.5
> 
> if I recall correctly, I can go into the activation screen and change the serial number and activate the new one?
> 
> TIA


That should work or you may have to remove the old one (in the program) and add it back in and go through the button press activation as prompted.


----------



## markrubin

OK that was easy

-deactivate device in program
-run activate shades: wait for discovery of shades to time out: it will tell you 1 device is unactivated: go to new shade and hold activation button until beep/ activate device in program
-check activation of repeaters and controls
-transfer

new shade installed/ activated and working


----------



## spiwrx

Per Lutron 3rd Quarter Announcement & as suspected the RRD-6D is being discontinued and replaced by the RRD-6CL _(Also, effects some of the similar Homeworks versions)_. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the 6D it's just the 6CL covers all the 6D does plus more LED/CFL and they are the same price. 

Also all Grafik Eye 3000, 3100 Series (e.g. 3104, 3106) are being obsoleted and replaced by 3500 series system. 

In typical Lutron fashion the cost difference will almost force you into converting to the Grafik Eye QS series instead. Luckily the QS is a much nicer and more capable piece. 

Announcement:
"http://images.lutron.info/Web/Lutron/%7B60988868-740b-4c21-bc83-03d00050ebb1%7D_2014_07_01_Glyder_Attache_PP_GRX3K4K_RRD_6D_Discontinuation_Notice_FINAL.pdf?elq=75dd10c2c990410981b8d116ff198313&elqCampaignId=1125"


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> Per Lutron 3rd Quarter Announcement & as suspected the RRD-6D is being discontinued and replaced by the RRD-6CL _(Also, effects some of the similar Homeworks versions)_. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the 6D it's just the 6CL covers all the 6D does plus more LED/CFL and they are the same price.


Any word on CL version hybrid keypads?


----------



## spiwrx

dragonian said:


> Any word on CL version hybrid keypads?


No, sorry. I'm at the mercy of their press releases they are usually pretty tight lipped until they have a shippable product. I can say we have been using the Hybrid with LED and in most cases has been working well. Many times the Hybrid is only working 1 or 2 lamps and then it doesn't always work. You might also consider the new 4 button pico with an appropriate dimmer.


----------



## markrubin

need a recommendation for a RRA2 dimmer for LED bulbs: specifically circuits with only 2 bulbs BR30 (9.5 w LED load each)

is the RRD-6NA the best choice? is there a newer dimmer more suitable you guys are using?

tia


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> need a recommendation for a RRA2 dimmer for LED bulbs: specifically circuits with only 2 bulbs BR30 (9.5 w LED load each)
> 
> is the RRD-6NA the best choice? is there a newer dimmer more suitable you guys are using?
> 
> tia


The only other option is what they call C-L dimmer, the RRD-6CL, but Lutron only guarantee's performance if your lamp is on their approved lamp list. I would stick to the 6NA as the most universal. You could also use the 10ND for low min. wattage. 

http://www.lutron.com/technicaldocumentlibrary/3682994a_CFL LED Bulb list_Resi Systems.pdf

In practice we've seen promising results on this 6CL dimmer. But apparently there is another level of "driverless" LED Lamps and Retro Trim's hitting the market. I'm still not up to date on what "driverless" means exactly (other than the obvious). But a couple of the lamps of this variety we tested don't like CL dimmers at all and even the LED Lamp manufacturers are suggesting a regular everyday dimmer.


----------



## Swancoat

So, I went and took the RR2 level one training, downloaded the software, and kind of 'built' a replacement for my current system in the software (at least added all of the devices).

I have one lingering question: All along, it seems like there is no way to basically 'link' or bind two devices. Is this right? I know some systems (Insteon) use a method like this for 3 and 4 way switches, but in some places I just have loads that are almost always used coincidentally, so they're linked. It seems like this kind of functionality is not available in RR2.

(To that end, I kind of prefer RR2's method for setting up multiway dimmers using the traveler and a cheaper RD-RD, but it's super annoying that the RD-RD does have the same status LED's as the regular dimmer. Kind of spoils the illusion that both devices are peers from a user perspective).


----------



## intake

You can create a multi device scene that is executed from a keypad, virtual keypad or time clock. You cannot trigger a scene by using a local switch, at least not using the standard RadioRA2 configuration and controller. If you have an external controller (Crestron, Roomie Remote, etc) that can read and script based on watching the on state of devices, then you can trigger a scene when the device state changes.

Does that make sense?


----------



## Swancoat

intake said:


> You can create a multi device scene that is executed from a keypad, virtual keypad or time clock. You cannot trigger a scene by using a local switch, at least not using the standard RadioRA2 configuration and controller. If you have an external controller (Crestron, Roomie Remote, etc) that can read and script based on watching the on state of devices, then you can trigger a scene when the device state changes.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Yes, and that is what my perception of the system was. Unfortunate that it takes a $350 keypad to do that.


----------



## rapamatic

Swancoat said:


> Yes, and that is what my perception of the system was. Unfortunate that it takes a $350 keypad to do that.


Or a $30 pico....


----------



## intake

Agreed on the cost of the Keypad, but make it a Hybrid Keypad at least and control a local load as well. It's this cost that has kept me from doing more keypads locally. This is the price for having a 'cheap' system. I will however say that my system has always been rock steady and has full wife acceptance.

I'd love to find a simple and CHEAP HA program that can script a single button press. Roomie remote is an option as I am already using it. I'm just not in love with their current subscription model. But a single button press of my 'Movie' scene on my keypad could now turn my AV system on, set my HUE lights to dim red and slowly dim my scene lights. What's not to love?


----------



## Swancoat

Yeah, the $30 pico will work... but it still seems like a crutch for a simple problem. A good example is the game room upstairs in my house has a short hallway leading to it, with it's own light and switch. The only time I ever use it is on my way to the game room. With Insteon I just linked the two. I hit the light on the way in and the game room lights too. So, yeah, I could carry a pico for that, or put one in the wall in a two-gang setup and it'll work fine, but it's not really the 'best' solution.

Going through this exercise has sort of impressed me more with Insteon. I mean, I'm still having some mild communications issues and reliability issues that we've all heard of (which is why I'm exploring RadioRA2 in the first place), but it's super flexible. I use a great piece of software (Indigo) to help manage the network and it provides a very high level of flexibility.

Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).


----------



## rapamatic

Swancoat said:


> Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).


I agree with you here. Lutron locks this sort of functionality into HomeWorks, which is not a DIY option at all. You can configure regular button press, double tap, long tap, etc.... very flexible from what I've seen, but never something I'll get to play with.

Layering a 3rd party solution on top of RR2 can handle a lot of these scenarios, but likely won't be as bulletproof, and adds a layer of complexity....


----------



## dgage

rapamatic said:


> I agree with you here. Lutron locks this sort of functionality into HomeWorks, which is not a DIY option at all. You can configure regular button press, double tap, long tap, etc.... very flexible from what I've seen, but never something I'll get to play with.
> 
> Layering a 3rd party solution on top of RR2 can handle a lot of these scenarios, but likely won't be as bulletproof, and adds a layer of complexity....


And this is where I hate Lutron having Caseta too. I see this as too much fracturing of focus and resources. Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Cadillac...yeah, too many options.


----------



## wkearney99

Right, individual switches or dimmers aren't able to 'send' commands to other devices. Their actions, however, are being detected on the main repeater. If you have a 3rd party controller involved then all of those actions can be monitored and acted upon. So there's ways to get there, just not as part of the individual devices themselves.

I also dislike the fact that the RD devices lack the LEDs. It is annoying. I'm sure that given the overall price of the RA2 devices there's not many customers out there that would balk at paying something more for an RD with the status LEDs. I'd be willing to rip-and-replace a few of them to get the feature.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).


The only problem with this is you're overloading the functionality of what most people are going to assume is a simple on/off device. It makes for a nightmare for guests or cleaning staff to operate. That and you're forcing yourself to "remember" some set of dances to go through just to turn on lights. This gets old, fast. Yeah, it's clever and for the truly geek-minded it's probably not too big of a deal. But for guests, spouses and children? Bad plan.

I'm not saying this because my gizmos won't do it, so don't get me wrong. I'm saying this from a usability perspective. It's just bad UI.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> Yeah, the $30 pico will work... but it still seems like a crutch for a simple problem. A good example is the game room upstairs in my house has a short hallway leading to it, with it's own light and switch. The only time I ever use it is on my way to the game room. With Insteon I just linked the two. I hit the light on the way in and the game room lights too. So, yeah, I could carry a pico for that, or put one in the wall in a two-gang setup and it'll work fine, but it's not really the 'best' solution.


What about putting a wireless motion sensor in the hallway? I've got a couple of them and they work great. Use some 3M CommandStrips to ease figuring out the proper placement. I've got them in the master closet, laundry room, the front porch, attic and a few other closets. They're working great. They're smart enough to detect there's enough daylight not to operate.

I'm thinking of adding one to the powder room, but only operating it in 'vacancy detected' mode. As in, it won't turn on the lights but will turn them off when it senses the room is empty. This will work to eliminate the hassle of my wife & child constantly leaving the light lit. Without running into the problem of it accidentally triggering all the time when foot traffic passes in the adjacent hallway. The sensors can do both, occupancy and vacancy. Most of the time you'd use both, but it's handy to have the choice.


----------



## Swancoat

wkearney99 said:


> The only problem with this is you're overloading the functionality of what most people are going to assume is a simple on/off device. It makes for a nightmare for guests or cleaning staff to operate. That and you're forcing yourself to "remember" some set of dances to go through just to turn on lights. This gets old, fast. Yeah, it's clever and for the truly geek-minded it's probably not too big of a deal. But for guests, spouses and children? Bad plan.
> 
> I'm not saying this because my gizmos won't do it, so don't get me wrong. I'm saying this from a usability perspective. It's just bad UI.


That's a fair point. For the most part I use the double taps for my own geek purposes (scenes that I like, while the rest of the users just get on with regular use). I use a few of them for something like 'single tap shuts off the light, double tap shuts off everything in the room', which is intuitive enough.

Going through software to 'link' the switches sounds ok. I'm a bit curious about the responsiveness etc...


----------



## Swancoat

wkearney99 said:


> What about putting a wireless motion sensor in the hallway? I've got a couple of them and they work great. Use some 3M CommandStrips to ease figuring out the proper placement. I've got them in the master closet, laundry room, the front porch, attic and a few other closets. They're working great. They're smart enough to detect there's enough daylight not to operate.
> 
> I'm thinking of adding one to the powder room, but only operating it in 'vacancy detected' mode. As in, it won't turn on the lights but will turn them off when it senses the room is empty. This will work to eliminate the hassle of my wife & child constantly leaving the light lit. Without running into the problem of it accidentally triggering all the time when foot traffic passes in the adjacent hallway. The sensors can do both, occupancy and vacancy. Most of the time you'd use both, but it's handy to have the choice.


Now this is interesting. How responsive can these things get if you jack the sensitivity up as high as it goes? Can it go inside a closet and effectively replace an open/close sensor (I know that's asking a lot for a motion sensor).


----------



## Swancoat

It's unfortunate the interface (well, and all the rest of the parts) are so expensive for RA2. I'd really like to get a few switches and just test drive the latency/response, etc...

All in, I'm really interested in moving to what would be a much more fully 'robust' lighting setup, especially as I have quite a few loads now, and can probably justify the cost but I'm not too interested in trading down functionality to get it.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> That's a fair point. For the most part I use the double taps for my own geek purposes (scenes that I like, while the rest of the users just get on with regular use). I use a few of them for something like 'single tap shuts off the light, double tap shuts off everything in the room', which is intuitive enough.
> 
> Going through software to 'link' the switches sounds ok. I'm a bit curious about the responsiveness etc...


With the RA2 switches it's tap to bring the lighting up to the pre (or last) set level. Double-tap brings it up to 100%. Single tap turns it off if it's on. Everyone (including my +80yo in-laws) grasped this immediately. If I had overloaded features like double tapping for combinations I'd lose them right way. I designed the setup to have a paddle dimmer as the first device in the wall box. This brings up the 'most frequently used' lighting for the space. The light over a bath vanity (as opposed to the ceiling cans in the room) or the wall sconces in the the theater. But in the front entrance they bring up the ceiling cans along the main 'path' of lights on the first floor (which are wired as one circuit). The next position is usually a keypad for other lighting or scenes. The bottom button of all my keypads is configure for a location-suitable "All Off". For the ones by the entry doors this is a whole house shared scene. But for other rooms it's an "Area All Off". As in, turn off all the lighting in the basement rec room area (including a delayed off on the stairs leading up). Same thing with the master suite, the bottom button turns off the bedroom, the bath and the closet.

Anytime you use an 3rd party interface you'd need to plan accordingly. RA2 does a couple of things with scenes to aid response time. As in, commands are sent as a group to avoid congestion. So an 'All Off' scene gets sent as a single command to the Shared Scene instead of what could be up to 200 individual commands. Likewise you can configure the main repeater to only monitor certain devices to avoid getting a lot of messages you don't need.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> It's unfortunate the interface (well, and all the rest of the parts) are so expensive for RA2. I'd really like to get a few switches and just test drive the latency/response, etc...
> 
> All in, I'm really interested in moving to what would be a much more fully 'robust' lighting setup, especially as I have quite a few loads now, and can probably justify the cost but I'm not too interested in trading down functionality to get it.


The RA2 stuff costs more but I've found it worth the price paid. It's reliable and wife-friendly. My friends have commented how much they like the up-sweep dimmer on the front porch light, that and how the holiday and front facade lighting automatically adjust themselves for sunrise/sunset. 

Over the decades I've had or tried just about everyone lighting solution out there, the Lutron stuff keeps coming back as the most reliable and least likely to torment my wife/guests/children. That's really made it a winner for me. The set-and-forget nature of how the switches and repeater behave is fantastic. Enough that I've delayed embarking on the 3rd party integration for a bit. Yeah, the tinkerer in me would like a few more features but the wise husband in me knows not to torment the wife...

Yes, it's a big bite to take but it's been worth it for me. Honestly, if they had more flexibility on HWQS supply I'd have seriously considered it instead. That's a whole other conversation, but adding conditional programming with Lutron reliability... that's definitely worth some consideration.


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> .....I have one lingering question: All along, it seems like there is no way to basically 'link' or bind two devices. Is this right? I know some systems (Insteon) use a method like this for 3 and 4 way switches, but in some places I just have loads that are almost always used coincidentally, so they're linked. It seems like this kind of functionality is not available in RR2......


I think the question was answered. But yes, you need a Keypad or Pico (or 3rd party) to create a scene with 2 "linked" devices we'll call a "scene" usually. I was a little thrown off but the wording because you can link the main device and RD in the software, but no you can only associate two(or more) unique zones to a keypad button or event. What you're really asking (I think) is for a conditional statement that basically says "if this device is on at this level, than this other device should be on at this level" that kind of functionality can be achieved through some 3rd party integration but directly in RR2 only with a Keypad. We all wish RR2 did this but it's not available in it's current form.


----------



## Swancoat

Ok, another question: In my media room, I have 6 loads. They are set up in 2 separate 3-gang boxes. Is there any real advantage to going with a Grafik Eye, or just as simple (and maybe cheaper) to use 5 dimmers and a hybrid keypad? Currently set up that way with Insteon.

(Fun twist, for whatever reason, each of the 3-gang boxes is a different circuit, so can you even USE a Grafik Eye in this situation, or would you basically be using a Grafik Eye and WPM to handle it all).


----------



## jautor

Swancoat said:


> Ok, another question: In my media room, I have 6 loads. They are set up in 2 separate 3-gang boxes. Is there any real advantage to going with a Grafik Eye, or just as simple (and maybe cheaper) to use 5 dimmers and a hybrid keypad? Currently set up that way with Insteon.


If the load wiring is not already all co-located, there's no advantage to the GE. Certainly simpler to use the dimmers and hybrid keypad, and while the GE would be cheaper if all 6 were in one 4-gang box, using the individual dimmers also allows you to mix dimmer types (for small wattage LED support, for example). Cost of course doesn't include the RA2 system infrastructure - which I assume if you're in this thread you're already bought into...


----------



## Swancoat

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I want to be pretty clear on how this should work...

I have somewhere around 50 loads all in (including lamps, etc...). If I give an 'all off' command, it's set as a group command right? I.e, I press and all off button... and all the lights basically shut off at once with no lag - is that right?


----------



## Swancoat

jautor said:


> If the load wiring is not already all co-located, there's no advantage to the GE. Certainly simpler to use the dimmers and hybrid keypad, and while the GE would be cheaper if all 6 were in one 4-gang box, using the individual dimmers also allows you to mix dimmer types (for small wattage LED support, for example). Cost of course doesn't include the RA2 system infrastructure - which I assume if you're in this thread you're already bought into...


Ok, thanks. So pretty clear I don't need the GE for anything. Well, not quite... Is there an easy answer for IR with a Hybrid Keypad? I know a regular keypad can be had with an IR window on the front (which would be PERFECT for my setup), but I have to control a load with that keypad.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> Not to beat a dead horse here, but I want to be pretty clear on how this should work...
> 
> I have somewhere around 50 loads all in (including lamps, etc...). If I give an 'all off' command, it's set as a group command right? I.e, I press and all off button... and all the lights basically shut off at once with no lag - is that right?


Essentially, yes. It's all a matter of how you program the scene. And note that each device within a scene can have both it's activation time and the transition time configured independently. That is, the amount of delay that will be paused before the command is executed, and then how long it takes to complete the action. 

I utilize this for the "All Off" scene for the lower (basement) level lighting. Most of the lighting is configured with no delay and no duration for the dimming. This allows for someone pressing the button to see immediate effect with lights going dark. However, the lights on the stairway are configured with a 10 second delay before activating and then a 15 second dimming duration. This allows for ample time to make your way up the steps without being plunged into darkness. The same is done for the "All Off" scene for the entry doors. Almost all lights are configured for immediately off with no duration, but a few have a delay/duration to avoid accidentally leaving someone in the dark. The porch light near them is likewise set for a 30 second delay and a 10 second dimming period. The effect is a gradual reduction of light, and several folks have commented how much they like it. Go figure, sometimes it's simple stuff that gets all the attention...


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> Ok, thanks. So pretty clear I don't need the GE for anything. Well, not quite... Is there an easy answer for IR with a Hybrid Keypad? I know a regular keypad can be had with an IR window on the front (which would be PERFECT for my setup), but I have to control a load with that keypad.


Sorry, to the best of my knowledge the Hybrid keypads are not IR capable. Possible if you have a IR distribution system you could transmit to another location that may have an regular keypad. Or, If you need to transmit IR to the system you could also use a 3rd party product like "iruleathome.com". Just to add/remind, any of the regular keypads you can place an IR "bugeye" on the back side so you don't really need the ugly IR on the keypad face unless thats your only place to put it _(if you don't have other IR receiver). _I guess this would be one benefit to use a GE QS instead of Dimmers... 

Just to revisit the GE question, short answer: Unless you need something pretty on the wall then RR2 switches/dimmers would be cheaper in most cases. Also, using individual devices are likely more load capable with for LED lighting without having to use an interface the GE may require. Lastly, to the best of my knowledge the latest GE QS is not available in anything less than 4 Zone (requires 4G box).


----------



## jautor

Swancoat said:


> Ok, thanks. So pretty clear I don't need the GE for anything. Well, not quite... Is there an easy answer for IR with a Hybrid Keypad? I know a regular keypad can be had with an IR window on the front (which would be PERFECT for my setup), but I have to control a load with that keypad.


You could add a 1-gang box for a regular keypad, or use a pick remote...


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## Swancoat

jautor said:


> You could add a 1-gang box for a regular keypad, or use a pick remote...


I assume you mean pico remote... regardless, I want to use it with the Media Room's universal IR remote, so a pico isn't the top solution. I currently have an Insteon IR sensor in there and I can probably just use it to capture the IR, and have software give me the right scene.


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## jautor

Swancoat said:


> I assume you mean pico remote... regardless, I want to use it with the Media Room's universal IR remote, so a pico isn't the top solution. I currently have an Insteon IR sensor in there and I can probably just use it to capture the IR, and have software give me the right scene.


Yeah, Pico (autocorrect...) 

Using the Insteon IR receiver isn't going to help. You're not going to get an easy bridge back to the RA2 system from there...

My other suggestion was to either expand the current box or place a new remodel 1-gang box next to it, and pigtail power to it to add a spot for a keypad (non-hybrid) with IR.

Jeff


----------



## Swancoat

jautor said:


> Yeah, Pico (autocorrect...)
> 
> Using the Insteon IR receiver isn't going to help. You're not going to get an easy bridge back to the RA2 system from there...
> 
> My other suggestion was to either expand the current box or place a new remodel 1-gang box next to it, and pigtail power to it to add a spot for a keypad (non-hybrid) with IR.
> 
> Jeff


I'm currently managing my Insteon setup with Indigo software, and somebody's written a RadioRA2 plugin for it, so I should be able to link them through software. Not crazy about that bit of lag, but it is what it is I guess.

I'm kind of tossing around the idea of the 6 regular dimmers and adding a spot for the hybrid keypad like you say, but given the arrangements of studs and the current boxes, It's going to seem awkward at best.

Currently there's two separate 3 gang boxes, placed side by side a few inches apart, with studs on the outsides. So it's basically add the keypad above or below. Not sure how I'll like either of those options. I figure I'll try the Insteon/Indigo method first and see how the lag goes.


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## notek

Swancoat said:


> Unfortunate that it takes a $350 keypad to do that.


This does not sound right. I think even msrp is lower than this, and street price is just over $200.


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## jautor

notek said:


> This does not sound right. I think even msrp is lower than this, and street price is just over $200.


For a regular RA2 keypad, yes, but for the Hybrid keypad (dimmer+keypad), I believe MSRP is $350... (or at least in that ballpark)


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## notek

jautor said:


> Hybrid keypad (dimmer+keypad), I believe MSRP is $350... (or at least in that ballpark)


Yep, you are right, those are expensive. Hybrid runs around $300...


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## wkearney99

notek said:


> Yep, you are right, those are expensive. Hybrid runs around $300...


I have several and it makes a nice replacement for a regular dimmer. Yeah, it's more than a keypad though. I'm guessing there's some quantity of scale issues as they're probably not sold in large numbers (certainly nowhere near the dimmer numbers).


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## Swancoat

Well, I'm going to go ahead and try, starting in the Media Room. The plan is to go with the 5 dimmers plus a hybrid dimmer to replace the current Insteon Setup. IR scene activation will be through the Insteon IR receiver to Indigo and then use the RadioRA2 plugin to activate the scene in RA2. If that proves unsatisfactory, but RA2 is otherwise looking good, then I'll replace the hybrid keypad with a regular dimmer (hybrid keypad will easily find another home in the house) and add another single gang box for a regular keypad with IR window.


----------



## jmanderson10

So silly question. I would consider myself middle of the road as far as RA2 knowledge goes. I did the course, have installed/changed switches, and tweaked the programming.

How is it they don't have a better electrical outlet switch? It seems like I am seeing wireless outlets from everyone. I have totally drank the Kool-Aid on RA2 and would put those everywhere but those lamp switches are straight from the 80s. I have a few but yikes. Anyone with their finger on the pulse know if this is something coming down the road?

And as always thanks for the people that contribute...this forum is an amazing resource.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

jmanderson10 said:


> So silly question. I would consider myself middle of the road as far as RA2 knowledge goes. I did the course, have installed/changed switches, and tweaked the programming.
> 
> How is it they don't have a better electrical outlet switch? It seems like I am seeing wireless outlets from everyone. I have totally drank the Kool-Aid on RA2 and would put those everywhere but those lamp switches are straight from the 80s. I have a few but yikes. Anyone with their finger on the pulse know if this is something coming down the road?
> 
> And as always thanks for the people that contribute...this forum is an amazing resource.
> 
> Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


I think we all would like that, and maybe a more recent NEC code change will make them re-think it. However, I would have to say no. I doubt you will see anything in the near future in terms of a controlled outlet. Their main reason has always been trying to keep people from plugging something like a vacuum into a module which just blows them up. The plug-in unit makes this at least a little more obvious.


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## notek

jmanderson10 said:


> those lamp switches are straight from the 80s. I have a few but yikes.


Are you referring to table top lamp dimmer, or plug-in dimmer? I thought table top is quite nice, and as far as plug-in dimmer, I hid those behind furniture - flat plug helps.

I wonder what they were thinking when they made those caseta plug-in dimmers - no way you can hide that behind dresser.


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## spiwrx

Has anyone here tried Indigo Software? Looks promising and relatively affordable for potentially handling some conditionals and adding some 3rd party support. http://www.indigodomo.com/

Any Pro's / Con's if you are using it? Please discus.


----------



## Swancoat

spiwrx said:


> Has anyone here tried Indigo Software? Looks promising and relatively affordable for potentially handling some conditionals and adding some 3rd party support. http://www.indigodomo.com/
> 
> Any Pro's / Con's if you are using it? Please discus.


Indeed! Indigo is my primary software, and the fact that someone has written a plugin for RadioRA2 was a big driver in me finally getting on board.

I've got a main repeater, keypad and some dimmers on their way (from you - thanks!), and one of the things I'm most curious about is how well they perform with Indigo. Obviously, latency between Indigo and RadioRA2 is going to be key to utilizing conditionals. I'll report back here with anything I find.

Not mentioned in your post but probably key info is that this is Mac software (and home automation software is a bit hard to come by for Mac).

Some thoughts on using it up until now: At first it was basically software for controlling Insteon (a job it does very well). Then a few years ago they added the ability to add plugins, which anyone can write with a little Python. (I know basically nothing about programming, but was able to bash my head against it long enough to write 2 plugins myself, so it's not that hard). The ability to add plugins is huge. I currently use a plugin to talk to my Denon Receiver, Elk M1G, a weather station, Pentair Pool Control, NuVo Grand Concerto, IP Camera Software and Growl (iOS notification protocol). There's a few other ones I use that aren't exactly as easily defined as something that just talks to a different device or system. For example, there's one called Smartphone Radar that checks your router logs at intervals to look for your smartphone's MAC address as a form of presence detection. Cool stuff. That's just the plugins that I USE - there's a whole bunch more that I don't that are available too.


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## spiwrx

Sounds really cool, yes I didn't pick up on the MAC only thing so I'll have to bite the bullet or find an OSX emulator??


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## user12345678

There is always my solution that runs on a Beaglebone or Raspberry PI that can be programmed from any OS....


----------



## jmanderson10

spiwrx said:


> I think we all would like that, and maybe a more recent NEC code change will make them re-think it. However, I would have to say no. I doubt you will see anything in the near future in terms of a controlled outlet. Their main reason has always been trying to keep people from plugging something like a vacuum into a module which just blows them up. The plug-in unit makes this at least a little more obvious.


Thanks...that makes sense.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk


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## tunneling

Hey guys.. I'm looking for beta testers for an Android app that I'm developing. I have a RadioRa2 driver. I'd love to get some feedback on the app and driver from folks that are familiar with the RadioRa2 system.

If you're interested in let me know. Beta testers get all in-app purchases free (e.g. drivers). 

You can learn more about the app at:
http://panoptic-app.com


----------



## mseifert9

I am about to replace an 8 year old insteon installation. It was a nightmare with 50+ dimmer failures over the years.
Anyway, I just finished my radioRa2 blast training and am wrapping my head around the differences between Insteon and radioRa2. 

First issue seems to be replacing my keypads which also have a load attached. But looking at the Hybrid keypads, it doesn't look like they handle led loads. Are there any solutions for this?


----------



## mseifert9

mseifert9 said:


> I am about to replace an 8 year old insteon installation. It was a nightmare with 50+ dimmer failures over the years.
> Anyway, I just finished my radioRa2 blast training and am wrapping my head around the differences between Insteon and radioRa2.
> 
> First issue seems to be replacing my keypads which also have a load attached. But looking at the Hybrid keypads, it doesn't look like they handle led loads. Are there any solutions for this?


 To clarify, the led lighting I am using is mostly dimmable BR30 lights like the G7 Power Elko 15 watt (85 watt equiv) or the Phillips 9.5 watt (65 watt equiv). I get the impression I can just try to dim these with the Hybrid Pads and it might work. Any experience with this?


----------



## mseifert9

Finally read the "Controlling LEDs" white paper with stated the final conclusion: "The only way to know for sure if a particular LED lamp or fixture will work with a particular dimmer is to test it."

I've read here that RRD-6NA and RRD-10ND can dim some LED loads. Lutron only approves the RRD-6CL for LED loads. Back to the above statement.

The same goes for the Power Modules: I've read where people have used the PHPM-PA-120 to control dimming LEDs but the specs say use only the Switching Power Module PHPM-SW-DV.

So my question is still has anyone dimmed LEDs using the Hybrid Keypad?


----------



## dgage

Just went down to the kitchen to test my hybrid keypad and dimmed 8 recessed LEDs that I bought from Home Depot. No problems. I also have different brands of LEDs all over the house on 6NA and 10ND and have not had any issues. The big thing is having enough LEDs to provide an adequate load for the dimmer but I even have a pair of 7w LEDs on a 6NA in the living room and those lights are so bright I set the default lighting to be 40%. So I haven't had any issues and the LEDs are getting better and better so I think the chances of you having issues with the hybrid dimmer with recent, popular LEDs. If you try to put a single 5-7w LED on a dimmer other than the 6CL, you might have issues but as long as you've got a couple LED bulbs on the other dimmers, you should be good. At least that is my PERSONAL experience in my house, I don't deploy RadioRa2 for a living.

David


----------



## notek

mseifert9 said:


> But looking at the Hybrid keypads, it doesn't look like they handle led loads. Are there any solutions for this?


Hybrid keypads work fine with most LED bulbs (I use TCP elite bulbs) - as long as keypad is connected to the neutral wire!


----------



## spiwrx

mseifert9 said:


> Finally read the "Controlling LEDs" white paper with stated the final conclusion: "The only way to know for sure if a particular LED lamp or fixture will work with a particular dimmer is to test it."
> 
> I've read here that RRD-6NA and RRD-10ND can dim some LED loads. Lutron only approves the RRD-6CL for LED loads. Back to the above statement.
> 
> The same goes for the Power Modules: I've read where people have used the PHPM-PA-120 to control dimming LEDs but the specs say use only the Switching Power Module PHPM-SW-DV.
> 
> So my question is still has anyone dimmed LEDs using the Hybrid Keypad?



Short answer is Yes, with caution...

The keypad is not intended for LED loads but most LED lamps/kits are being designed to work with regualr dimmers, so we're left in a pickle...

First of all the 6CL is not the only LED dimmer, probably the best dimmer is the 6NA and is an "Adaptive" dimmer, supposed to be able to detect and control almost all dimmable lighting_(For some stubborn loads you may have to play with the programming and force this into Forward or Reverse phase dimming)_. This is the fall back if nothing else worked or preventative, if you're not sure. It also has one of the lowest minimum load requirements. (The 10ND is very similar). Also, the dimmer of choice when you have any load less than 60watts. The range is sometime better on other dimmers, but we're usually talking a 5% difference or less and most LED don't dim 100% anyway. 

The 6CL was designed for LED and CFL replacement *lamps* and works well in most cases (_& OK for most other LED loads_). This has become their "base" dimmer recently, replacing the 6D. 

The PHPM-PA.... is for very special circumstances and requires a specific dimmer to control (_fluorescent 3wire dimmer_). Typically this is only used for very large loads or if the main unit is a Grafik Eye or Power Wall box Module(PWM). It can also be used to increase the zone maximum on a QS or PWM_._ Otherwise, if within the Spec's (min/max) the 6NA should do the same as they are both "Adaptive". _(FYI, the PHPM-SW is for Switching only and again for usually larger loads or from controlling a switched load from a Grafik Eye or PWM or increasing the zone maximum on a QS or PWM)_ 

We use the Hybrid keypad often for LED an typically does well but you do have to mind the minimum wattage and you can easily Max it out as well. 300watt load derives to something like 70-80watts of LED. (don't quote me) Please remember it has a lot to do with the driver type as well and everything keeps changing on this evolving lighting technology. If you are planning a new system I would include at least 1 6CL and 1 6NA (or 10ND), so you can test them on your loads if they haven't been checked by Lutron (www.lutron.com/led) or the Lamp manufacturer. If the Lamp manufacturer does not have something published that recommends some kind of commercially available dimmer, its a good sign to stay away from that brand.


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## mseifert9

spiwrx said:


> The PHPM-PA.... is for very special circumstances and requires a specific dimmer to control (_fluorescent 3wire dimmer_). Typically this is only used for very large loads or if the main unit is a Grafik Eye or Power Wall box Module(PWM). It can also be used to increase the zone maximum on a QS or PWM_._ Otherwise, if within the Spec's (min/max) the 6NA should do the same as they are both "Adaptive".


David and notek, thank you for sharing your experience. It is extremely helpful.

Paul - fantastic detailed informative response - thank you. I get it all except what you say regarding the PHPM-PA. The product specifications for the Maestro Local Controls lists the 10ND and 6NA as compatible with it and my understanding was that if the loads are greater than what these are rated for, this is the power booster I need. Are you saying that it won't dim the LEDs if I use it?


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## spiwrx

mseifert9 said:


> David and notek, thank you for sharing your experience. It is extremely helpful.
> 
> Paul - fantastic detailed informative response - thank you. I get it all except what you say regarding the PHPM-PA. The product specifications for the Maestro Local Controls lists the 10ND and 6NA as compatible with it and my understanding was that if the loads are greater than what these are rated for, this is the power booster I need. Are you saying that it won't dim the LEDs if I use it?


No, what I was trying to say is that the 6NA and PHPM-PA are the same except for the capacity they can handle_(Both "Adaptive" dimmers)_. If you need to use the PHPM-PA, _(more than 15 LED lamps depending on make) _than the PHPM-PA is normally controlled by the 3-wire Fluorescent Dimmer (RRD-F6AN), in the case of RR2. I have never known it to be controlled by anything else and the spec sheet I see (pg. 7) calls for the 3wire fluorescent or QS GE, but that doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong. The PHPM-PA unit usually requires a switched hot, dimmed hot and neutral which the 10ND and 6NA do not have. But maybe there's some other programming of the PHPM I'm not aware of. In any case, if you are pre-wiring, I would account for an extra wire, just in case...


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## spiwrx

*@mseifert9, *perhaps we got off on a tangent. But what exactly are you trying to control? Just to put it into perspective, the RRD-6NA can handle roughly 15 LED lamps/retrofits _(give or take)_ depending on the model. The PHPM-PA increases that from 15 to 195. It's quite a jump for sure, but may be necessary if you have 16? Or why not add just another dimmer (if it's wired or can be wired that way). It would be much less complicated and a little cheaper..... 

I'm basing my numbers on the report card for our most popular LED retrofit from Cooper (RL560)
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/ResourceLibrary/LEDReportCard/Report%20Card%20Cooper%20827-740%20RL560WH-R%209.4W%202012%20Oct%20RevA.pdf

This is a good resource from Lutron, simply check "Radio Ra 2 Dimmer" from the control selection and hit search... It will generate a list of tests they done and see which LED's they tested against RR2 dimmers and/or modules. The little document icon will link to a "report card" for that particular LED like the one linked above for the Cooper RL560. 
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/service...al/design-selectiontools/leddimmermatrix.aspx


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## mseifert9

spiwrx said:


> @mseifert9, perhaps we got off on a tangent. But what exactly are you trying to control? Just to put it into perspective, the RRD-6NA can handle roughly 15 LED lamps/retrofits (give or take) depending on the model. The PHPM-PA increases that from 15 to 195. It's quite a jump for sure, but may be necessary if you have 16? Or why not add just another dimmer (if it's wired or can be wired that way). It would be much less complicated and a little cheaper.....
> 
> I'm basing my numbers on the report card for our most popular LED retrofit from Cooper ...
> 
> This is a good resource from Lutron, simply check "Radio Ra 2 Dimmer" from the control selection and hit search... It will generate a list of tests they done and see which LED's they tested against RR2 dimmers and/or modules. The little document icon will link to a "report card" for that particular LED like the one linked above for the Cooper RL560.
> ...


I've got a retrofit of 4 groups of fixtures (wired loads) of 6, 9, 9, and 9 fixtures. The 4 switches are in various places in multi gang boxes. Currently they are a mix of LED, Halogen, and Incandescent, but I will change that so that each load has the same type of bulb so I am not mixing LED and other. 

Thanks for the link to the report card. I'm gathering the estimation of 15 fixtures for the RRD-6NA are based on no derating for sharing a gang box. I'm guessing it's more like 12.5 if at the end of a gang box and 10 if in the middle. I also notice that this rating is for a 9.5w bulb. Which would give 142w / 120w / 95w (alone / end / middle) as a starting reference point.

Since I need 9 x 15w = 135w for both end and middle gang box location, it sounds like I should try the 10ND for these.

The 6NA sounds like a good bet for lower (than my) wattage needs. 

The Keypad dimmer might work for my 6 fixtures load - although it's pushing it at 90w LED or 360w Incandescent. 

How do you know if a switch is overloaded? Is there a temperature reading spec?


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## mseifert9

spiwrx said:


> No, what I was trying to say is that the 6NA and PHPM-PA are the same except for the capacity they can handle_(Both "Adaptive" dimmers)_. If you need to use the PHPM-PA, _(more than 15 LED lamps depending on make) _than the PHPM-PA is normally controlled by the 3-wire Fluorescent Dimmer (RRD-F6AN), in the case of RR2. I have never known it to be controlled by anything else and the spec sheet I see (pg. 7) calls for the 3wire fluorescent or QS GE, but that doesn't mean I couldn't be wrong. The PHPM-PA unit usually requires a switched hot, dimmed hot and neutral which the 10ND and 6NA do not have. But maybe there's some other programming of the PHPM I'm not aware of. In any case, if you are pre-wiring, I would account for an extra wire, just in case...


I was going off this list of: Compatible Power Boosters and Load Interfaces which lists the 10ND and 6NA as compatible with the PHPM-PA. Am I missing something?

This is a retro fit and I have a neutral wire in every box. Thanks for helping clarify the picture.


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## spiwrx

mseifert9 said:


> I was going off this list of: Compatible Power Boosters and Load Interfaces which lists the 10ND and 6NA as compatible with the PHPM-PA. Am I missing something?
> 
> This is a retro fit and I have a neutral wire in every box. Thanks for helping clarify the picture.


No, I think you got it, thats an old Doc. I've never seen but it's clearly there. Good to know. I still would recommend the RRD-F6AN to control the PHPM, as it switches and dims the module and as such would assume less of a parasitic load when the lights are off. 

The LED rating of their other dimmers is about 1/4 their Inc/MLV ratings. De-rating is not so much of an issue with LED as the running load should be 150-250watts max. The issue and why the LED dimmers are only rated 150w (vs. 600w of their inc rating) is the in-rush when they are turned on initially. If you are mixing loads, you still need to look at de-rating (potentially) and factor the LED x4 + Inc. load then follow the Inc. de-rating chart.


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## mseifert9

spiwrx said:


> The LED rating of their other dimmers is about 1/4 their Inc/MLV ratings. De-rating is not so much of an issue with LED as the running load should be 150-250watts max. The issue and why the LED dimmers are only rated 150w (vs. 600w of their inc rating) is the in-rush when they are turned on initially. If you are mixing loads, you still need to look at de-rating (potentially) and factor the LED x4 + Inc. load then follow the Inc. de-rating chart.


I want to make sure I completely understand. It sounds like ... with pure LED loads, after the initial in-rush is past, the load will only be the led listed watt rating (with its associated heat) and so the dimmer doesn't need to be de-rated because it can handle this level of sustained heat. Does this mean it can allow a full 150w led load (on a 600w rated dimmer) even in the middle of a 3 gang setup? I probably won't go above 135w, but in principle it sounds like it should work? There is nothing anywhere that explains this that I could find.


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## spiwrx

mseifert9 said:


> I want to make sure I completely understand. It sounds like ... with pure LED loads, after the initial in-rush is past, the load will only be the led listed watt rating (with its associated heat) and so the dimmer doesn't need to be de-rated because it can handle this level of sustained heat. Does this mean it can allow a full 150w led load (on a 600w rated dimmer) even in the middle of a 3 gang setup? I probably won't go above 135w, but in principle it sounds like it should work? There is nothing anywhere that explains this that I could find.


Yes, that is my understanding. The dimmer has a full rating for 600watts but it can't handle that kind of in-rush (if all LED) so yes the running load should be fine at 150w or less. If fact I stumbled on this Homeworks doc. and I think I've seen the same for RR2_(basically the same dimmer as HW)_ and it shows de-rating with mixed loads and at 150watts you have 0 de-rating no matter position. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369305b_ENG.pdf
(see page 8)


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## DarrenGM

I saw new Cree LED bulbs (4Flow Filament Design) at Home Depot that can be used in enclosed fixtures. Anyone have experience with these using RadioRa2? Not sure which dimmer or keypad to purchase if I use these bulbs... Is the only way to buy and try?

Thanks!

BA19-08050OMF-12DE26-3U100

BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-3U100


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## dgage

DarrenGM said:


> I saw new Cree LED bulbs (4Flow Filament Design) at Home Depot that can be used in enclosed fixtures. Anyone have experience with these using RadioRa2? Not sure which dimmer or keypad to purchase if I use these bulbs... Is the only way to buy and try?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BA19-08050OMF-12DE26-3U100
> 
> BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-3U100


Sweet. Thanks for the heads up on LEDs that can fit in an enclosed fixture.


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## DMILANI

I'm using the 60W version of one of these with a table tap dimmer. Works perfectly.

Dino



DarrenGM said:


> I saw new Cree LED bulbs (4Flow Filament Design) at Home Depot that can be used in enclosed fixtures. Anyone have experience with these using RadioRa2? Not sure which dimmer or keypad to purchase if I use these bulbs... Is the only way to buy and try?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BA19-08050OMF-12DE26-3U100
> 
> BA19-08027OMF-12DE26-3U100


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## Swancoat

Got the first phase of my RadioRA2 installation installed. It's 6 loads in my media room, and I am extremely impressed with the responsiveness, speed and fluidity of the scene changes. Really seems like a great system. I'm excited to expand out and replace more Insteon stuff for sure.

The only thing I have yet to do is get the Indigo plugin up and running. Once that happens (hopefully a day or two at most) I'll report back with how that integrates.


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## jautor

Swancoat said:


> Got the first phase of my RadioRA2 installation installed. It's 6 loads in my media room, and I am extremely impressed with the responsiveness, speed and fluidity of the scene changes.


That was my first impression as well after starting my install. Even from the iPad app the system responds almost instantaneously... Now I just have to really walk around and define my scenes so I can settle on what to get engraved on all the keypads - the "temporary" scene stickers are starting to fall off. I guess Lutron's definition of 'temporary' is shorter than us DIY guys?


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## Swancoat

jautor said:


> That was my first impression as well after starting my install. Even from the iPad app the system responds almost instantaneously... Now I just have to really walk around and define my scenes so I can settle on what to get engraved on all the keypads - the "temporary" scene stickers are starting to fall off. I guess Lutron's definition of 'temporary' is shorter than us DIY guys?


That's one thing that bothers me... Does anyone have any idea what it costs to buy an engraved button? It seems like an impossibility that I have all my buttons picked out on the first go around. I'll almost certainly want to change them even after they've been made 'permanent'.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## jautor

Swancoat said:


> That's one thing that bothers me... Does anyone have any idea what it costs to buy an engraved button? It seems like an impossibility that I have all my buttons picked out on the first go around. I'll almost certainly want to change them even after they've been made 'permanent'.


I'm sure you'd have to buy a new plate/kit...

But that's why Lutron recommends that you live with the temporary stickers "for a few months" until you settle on the scenes... I do see the engraving certificates go up for sale occasionally - but I'd only get one from a reputable source as it's a single-use code!


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## dgage

I made my own labels via the Brother Ptouch or similar and I still haven't sent in for engraving...going on 2 years.


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## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> That's one thing that bothers me... Does anyone have any idea what it costs to buy an engraved button? It seems like an impossibility that I have all my buttons picked out on the first go around. I'll almost certainly want to change them even after they've been made 'permanent'.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


I've had my "temporary" Stickers on for about a year in our new home, still hanging on, though we only use a couple main buttons a few times each day. The permanent engraved buttons take 1-2 weeks to get but generally _(especially if you are new to automation and more so to scene programming) _we recommend waiting for about a month or more until your final program is solid and you're happy with it. You can purchase additional buttons but a new engraved set is in the neighborhood of $60. 
Otherwise create button names that are vague enough to be useful and flexible to programming changes... For scene programming specifically, you may want to associate the button name with an activity instead of a room name (e.g. Good Night _(I have a 3minute fade to off on halls 5 minutes on bedrooms)_, Entertain, Clean, Movie, Dine, Exercise, etc... )


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## Swancoat

So, when you get an engraved button set, is the stack of buttons one unit, or can an individual button be moved from one keypad to another? (I haven't actually taken the front off of a keypad to see how this is all set up).

I think this is one of my main concerns as well. Just thinking back to my Insteon Keypad experience... Some of the buttons are clearly defined from day 1. Some of them, I kind of figure out after a few weeks, but some of them sit blank for while and I think of a use way later.

Part of the reason guys like me want to DIY, is because I can change the buttons from time to time. If I can use an engraving certificate to say, order 6 buttons and split them across a few keypads, and then get 6 later, I'm ok with that. And after that, whenever I have 6 buttons that need to be renamed, I can convince myself to buck up $60 to get 6 more buttons. But if each Keypad is going to be a 'unit' that's engraved all or nothing... I will have a sad.


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## Swancoat

This is a slightly different topic, so I thought I'd just split to another post.

Regarding integration with Indigo... I got the plugin up and running last night. I had trouble with the Ethernet version, so I'm connecting to the serial port via iTach device. Generally works well. You can add each load as a device in Indigo and the updates are very fast (faster than Insteon, let's just say that  ).

The keypad button/scene integration is probably a work in progress. Each button is added as a device (on/off). Activating a scene in Indigo works great. Activating a scene outside of Indigo (i.e. pressing physical button or using Lutron app) works well too, with the scene status updating in Indigo promptly (switching to 'on' - reflecting the keypad LED basically). What it doesn't seem to do for me yet is shut the keypad buttons OFF in Indigo.

Example: Go into media room, turn on 'enter' scene. Loads adjust, led lights on 'enter' button on keypad, loads are accurately updated in Indigo, and 'enter' scene in Indigo goes to 'on'. Then, switch scent to 'movie' on keypad. Loads adjust, led on 'movie' button lights, and led on 'enter' button shuts off. Loads are accurately updated in Indigo, 'movie' scene in Indigo goes to 'on', but 'enter' scene in Indigo does NOT go to off, it remains ON.

Now, I only got this running last night, and haven't messed around too much, so maybe I've got something wrong. I'll keep this thread updated as things go on.


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## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> So, when you get an engraved button set, is the stack of buttons one unit, or can an individual button be moved from one keypad to another? (I haven't actually taken the front off of a keypad to see how this is all set up). ...


The button Kit is an assemble "Cover"(or Frame with buttons) that snaps onto the backend, you need only remove the wall/switch cover plate.

The Buttons are physically attached via a metal spring clip. I found out the hard way_(mixed up Hybrid and Regular KP engraving, they snap on differently) _they are individually changeable but it's a little work to be done with some care. 

This is what you get when you receive your engraved button kits. 









If you can see in the image the buttons have tabs just pressed into the spring plate, they can be carefully removed/relocated.


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## Swancoat

Ok, wow. So it totally looks DOABLE, but I don't like my odds of doing it without bending breaking anything! Well, I'll wait until I order the first set and we'll see how it goes.

I went ahead and put my stickers on the existing keypad yesterday. I have to say, aside from having a limited amount of choices, they're pretty good. If you put them on carefully and straight, they look pretty decent.


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## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> Example: Go into media room, turn on 'enter' scene. Loads adjust, led lights on 'enter' button on keypad, loads are accurately updated in Indigo, and 'enter' scene in Indigo goes to 'on'. Then, switch scent to 'movie' on keypad. Loads adjust, led on 'movie' button lights, and led on 'enter' button shuts off. Loads are accurately updated in Indigo, 'movie' scene in Indigo goes to 'on', but 'enter' scene in Indigo does NOT go to off, it remains ON.


I don't know anything about the actual (internal) programming and communication, but my guess is that the Indigo is seeing the commands sent properly, but since the scene _*wasn't*_ actually pressed off(if programmed that way), it doesn't know. My understanding of the RR2 side is, (depending on the button logic) the indicator light will go off when any of the light(s) or Level(s) have changed away from how the seen was programmed, whether that was initiated from another scene button or locally at a dimmer(or switch) it just "sees" the lights are not where they are supposed to be and reacts. In other words when you are switching between scenes there is no "off" command sent from to the previous scene, if you get my meaning... So I don't know if you can get the Indigo to react differently, but it sounds like something I would bring to their attention. I'm guessing the Indigo is just reacting to communications and not polling scenes.


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## Swancoat

That's correct. I've since talked with the guy who wrote the plugin, and what he's doing is treating the buttons and LEDs separately (so the behavior I was seeing wasn't a 'fail' as much as 'by design'). You can set up another Indigo device referring to just the LED that will show the state of that LED. The buttons in RadioRA2 are weird in that there's no such thing as sending an 'on' or 'off'. Just a 'press'.

So I told Indigo to just PRESS the button in response to an IR signal and am effectively controlling RadioRA2 scenes in my media room via IR without a Lutron IR receiver. (There's a small (1 sec?) lag between hitting the IR button and seeing the scene change, but that's acceptable for this use for me).

The plugin author also seems receptive to changing the plugin slightly so a 'device' will reflect the STATE of the LED, and issue a button PRESS when turned on or off. That should basically replicate a keypad button perfectly.

Regardless, it looks like it's going to work great.


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## dgage

I was reading the Lutron RadioRa2 8.1 Release Notes and under 8.0 there was this under New Products. What does this mean in terms of RadioRa2? Thanks.

*4. Standalone Maestro Sensor Dimmers and Switches *


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## jautor

dgage said:


> I was reading the Lutron RadioRa2 8.1 Release Notes and under 8.0 there was this under New Products. What does this mean in terms of RadioRa2? Thanks.
> 
> *4. Standalone Maestro Sensor Dimmers and Switches *


IIRC, this is just the ability to enter standalone dimmers/switches into the software so that those locations can be accounted for in a design and inventory (color, model, etc.).


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## dgage

jautor said:


> IIRC, this is just the ability to enter standalone dimmers/switches into the software so that those locations can be accounted for in a design and inventory (color, model, etc.).


Makes sense. Thanks Jautor!


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## wkearney99

jautor said:


> IIRC, this is just the ability to enter standalone dimmers/switches into the software so that those locations can be accounted for in a design and inventory (color, model, etc.).


Agreed, they've always had a number of non-RA2 devices capable of being added to designs. This so stuff like wall plates would have the proper number of devices present, and to allow using the reports by the installers on-site.


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## Swancoat

Just an update... I've been slowly rolling out the RadioRA 2 installation here.

One of my big worries was that RadioRA 2 doesn't have any kind of door sensor. I have several Insteon ones and they are linked directly to the switch they control. I figured with RadioRA 2, I'd have the software I'm running (Indigo) handle the work. Basically, I set up a simple trigger so that when Indigo sees the sensor open, it activates the light (and vice versa).

It works MUCH better than expected. The RadioRA 2 plugin is so fast that the latency is going to be of zero impact to me. (Everyone here probably understands that on things like this, latency can be a big issue. Just an extra 'beat' between opening the pantry door and seeing the light can get pretty annoying after going in there several times each day).

I'd characterize the difference between the Insteon direct linking and having the software handle it as: With direct linking, the light was on before I finished opening the door. With the software running the rule, the light is coming on as my hand is coming off of the door knob. Slower, sure, but absolutely not going to be a problem.


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## jautor

Swancoat said:


> Everyone here probably understands that on things like this, latency can be a big issue. Just an extra 'beat' between opening the pantry door and seeing the light can get pretty annoying after going in there several times each day


For anyone planning new construction - one of the things I did was to install (aka "upgrade") frame-mounted light switches for closets and the pantry. This removed all automation needs and expense from these areas and of course made things bullet-proof. It also removes the wall acne completely... 

I'm ticked that I missed a few closets in the upgrade process and didn't catch the oversight until after move-in.

A $15 example: 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...C-DC-Push-Button-Door-Switch-GSW-SK/100180864


Jeff


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## FlyingDiver

jautor said:


> For anyone planning new construction - one of the things I did was to install (aka "upgrade") frame-mounted light switches for closets and the pantry. This removed all automation needs and expense from these areas and of course made things bullet-proof. It also removes the wall acne completely...
> 
> I'm ticked that I missed a few closets in the upgrade process and didn't catch the oversight until after move-in.
> 
> A $15 example:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...C-DC-Push-Button-Door-Switch-GSW-SK/100180864
> 
> 
> Jeff


Our builder calls those "Jamb Switches". We have them on several of the closets. I need to go back and see if I can put them on the rest. Not sure about the walk-in and bypass door closets. Hmmm.


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## wkearney99

I've had nice success with Lutron's motion sensors for RA2. I've added a few around the house. Mainly because of the ability to turn things off when motion is no longer detected. As in, turn off all the danged lights the kids keep leaving on down in the basement. It takes a little while to find the sweet spot for placement, so have some extra 3M CommandStrips on hand. That and you can reduce/eliminate detection from certain angles via physically applying (supplied) bits of tape to the faceted cover. I use this on the longer-range angles to avoid traffic passing in an adjacent hall from tripping the closet light. There is a slight pause, it's about half-a-beat between walking into the closet and thinking you need to raise you hand to hit the switch. But this is because I've blocked the signal, and placed the sensor such that you really need to be almost under it to trip it. 

They also make 90 degree corner mountable sensors. I've got one of those in a powder room and it manages to only trip the light when you actually enter the room, not pass by in the hall.

At some point I do plan on experimenting with using software in-between the sensor tripping a 'phantom' light and rules based lighting changes. But other than wanting reduced dimming during late night use of the master closet, it hasn't really been an issue. 

Lutron would REALLY do well to reconsider not having conditional programming for RA2. It's just leaving the door wide open to other suppliers with that (but inferior switches).


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## dgage

wkearney99 said:


> Lutron would REALLY do well to reconsider not having conditional programming for RA2. It's just leaving the door wide open to other suppliers with that (but inferior switches).


I agree wholeheartedly! Stupid in my opinion to not at least have some conditional logic.


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## wkearney99

wkearney99 said:


> Lutron would REALLY do well to reconsider not having conditional programming for RA2. It's just leaving the door wide open to other suppliers with that (but inferior switches).





dgage said:


> I agree wholeheartedly! Stupid in my opinion to not at least have some conditional logic.


I understand why it 'worked' 10 years ago. But today there's a lot more going on and more and more vendors are coming along with systems that have conditionals, but often paired with inferior dimmer hardware. Personally I prefer reliable hardware over features, but it's getting pretty long in the tooth with RA2. Especially in light of the emerging Caseta nonsense. I mean, really? This all smacks of some stupid inter-departmental infighting between the RA2 and QS camps. Meanwhile crap from other suppliers is gaining ground. Ground that's not going to easily regained because folks aren't going to rip-and-replace their dimmers.


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## Swancoat

jautor said:


> For anyone planning new construction - one of the things I did was to install (aka "upgrade") frame-mounted light switches for closets and the pantry. This removed all automation needs and expense from these areas and of course made things bullet-proof. It also removes the wall acne completely...
> 
> I'm ticked that I missed a few closets in the upgrade process and didn't catch the oversight until after move-in.
> 
> A $15 example:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...C-DC-Push-Button-Door-Switch-GSW-SK/100180864
> 
> 
> Jeff



Yeah, those are the ideal for a pantry, but I have a few that actually trigger an Light outside of the closet that also has a place in the overall automation scheme.


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## wkearney99

In only one of the places where I have a motion sensor would I have used a jamb switch. Everywhere else those doors are either the pocket kind or usually not kept closed. But for the one were it would work I still have to deal with my wife & son not closing the danged door. It's a basement utility room with the spare fridge & freezer, along with a water heater that has an annoyingly loud exhaust fan. So for that I can at least turn off the light with the motion sensor...

I'm not arguing against the jamb switches, just mention that for us they'd be worse than motion sensors. If anything I'd want a jamb switch tied to a contact closure instead. At least that way I'd be able to track when they've been opened and time them out after a while.


----------



## jautor

wkearney99 said:


> I'm not arguing against the jamb switches, just mention that for us they'd be worse than motion sensors.


Yep, I mentioned them only because folks may not be aware of them, and in our rush to automate everything sometimes we overlook the cheap-and-dirt-simple solutions...


----------



## FlyingDiver

For a Main and Secondary controller system (not two mains), does the aux repeater have to be hardwire connected to the main, or do they communicate via RF?

Also, if I'm putting the aux receiver in a location that doesn't have a convenient power plug, and I'm using a hardwired connection to the main, can I provide the power from the main location via the same cable as the signal connections? Would Cat-5e/6 be suitable, or do I need something heavier? Looks like it's four wires for the comm and 2 for power, so I could double up the wires for power. If I need to run a heavier wire I will, but I'm not sure what to use.


----------



## wkearney99

jautor said:


> Yep, I mentioned them only because folks may not be aware of them, and in our rush to automate everything sometimes we overlook the cheap-and-dirt-simple solutions...


Agreed. Nice we can all post the back-and-forths on this stuff without everyone getting their shorts in a bunch.

I'd very much like to have some jamb sensors that could be added in a few places. And then integrate them into a lighting scheme with RA2. I realize, of course, that this would require a series of layers from different vendors. Not that I expect Lutron to get into the sensor business. But after many decades of false starts it does look a lot like the emerging 6LoWPAN standard may finally make such layering possible/practical. Stuff like the using SF123 '10 year' lithium batteries may make it possible to do little more than drill a 3/4" hole into a jamb and insert a sensor powered with one.

It'd be fantastic to see Lutron actually in the middle of this, with their demonstrably superior dimmers. Instead of continuing to hold out for more expensive QS sales based on entirely proprietary technologies.


----------



## wkearney99

FlyingDiver said:


> For a Main and Secondary controller system (not two mains), does the aux repeater have to be hardwire connected to the main, or do they communicate via RF?
> 
> Also, if I'm putting the aux receiver in a location that doesn't have a convenient power plug, and I'm using a hardwired connection to the main, can I provide the power from the main location via the same cable as the signal connections? Would Cat-5e/6 be suitable, or do I need something heavier? Looks like it's four wires for the comm and 2 for power, so I could double up the wires for power. If I need to run a heavier wire I will, but I'm not sure what to use.


I don't know that the repeaters can be powered by anything other than the power jack. But then I've never looked into it. I'd wonder about how firmware updates are sent to it. With most releases of the PC software there's also a firmware update for the devices. I have two main repeaters, not an aux. Both are connected via Ethernet so it's never been an issue. 

If you're looking for a way to install it in another location still using AC then consider something like a Carlon SC300P box, mentioned here:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/162-home-automation/1178211-lutrons-radiora2-28.html#post24041983
http://www.hankselectric.net/detail.aspx?ID=1132

Take an existing outlet and either extend power from it or replace it and use one of those boxes. It'd allow recessing the repeater into the wall perhaps keeping it more 'out of the way' but still accessible for maintenance or troubleshooting. 

A point to consider, however, is power reliability. Stuff like this is infrastructure and needs to remain reliably powered 24/7. We've had various power reliability problems around here. Dips and short outages are a plague for electronic gizmos. Thus I keep all of my stuff on small UPSes. The downside being mounting those and maintaining their batteries. But that's a small challenge compared to the voodoo caused by intermittent power glitches.

As for placement I had to move mine around a couple of times before finding the 'sweet spot' for them. Turns out to be a closet wall, nearly dead-center of the house. I still haven't hard-mounted them though.


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> For anyone planning new construction - one of the things I did was to install (aka "upgrade") frame-mounted light switches for closets and the pantry. This removed all automation needs and expense from these areas and of course made things bullet-proof. It also removes the wall acne completely...
> 
> I'm ticked that I missed a few closets in the upgrade process and didn't catch the oversight until after move-in.
> 
> A $15 example:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-...C-DC-Push-Button-Door-Switch-GSW-SK/100180864
> 
> 
> Jeff


Definitely a good idea, we use a closet light relay and magnet switch which is a little more expensive, but a ton easier to install and you can use it on closet with multiple doors easily as well. Also there are a lot of good options for sensors either in the ceiling or wall for rooms like bathrooms. laundry, guest, etc.. that don't "have" to be on the system. 

As for a wired door sensor, you could use one of the magnetic contacts and send it through a VCRX if you want to have a wired door switch "talk" to the RR2 system. 

As for the Aux. Repeater, you need to plug it in. There is no POE or anything of that nature for this device. It does have a plug in power supply you could remote mount to possibly ease wiring methods(e.g. send it over a small Class 2 or better cable along with mux link connections), but it needs power. The other connections are solely for communication when distances are to great for RF. There is no Ethernet connection on the Aux. Repeater and CAT5 is not recommended for the MUX link. connections. That being said if you are "inclusive" and can use 2 mains you can connect them via Ethernet, though you still need power. It does operate on 9V if you want to see how far a battery will get you??


----------



## FlyingDiver

spiwrx said:


> As for the Aux. Repeater, you need to plug it in. There is no POE or anything of that nature for this device. It does have a plug in power supply you could remote mount to possibly ease wiring methods(e.g. send it over a small Class 2 or better cable along with mux link connections), but it needs power. The other connections are solely for communication when distances are to great for RF. There is no Ethernet connection on the Aux. Repeater and CAT5 is not recommended for the MUX link. connections. That being said if you are "inclusive" and can use 2 mains you can connect them via Ethernet, though you still need power. It does operate on 9V if you want to see how far a battery will get you??


I was thinking of remote mounting the wall wart in the closet with the main repeater, and using the same cable for both the power and the mux link. Do you have a recommendation on the type of cable to use? How about for just the mux link if I have local power?

I'm taking the RadioRa 2 Level 2 class (ILT 722) next month, so I could plan on a two main repeater system, but I won't need it for the number of devices, so that seems like overkill for this issue. I can run cable, and I can get an outlet placed if needed. In fact, if I put an outlet there I could also run the WAP in that location from it and not have to deal with POE for that run.


----------



## wkearney99

FlyingDiver said:


> ... so I could plan on a two main repeater system, but I won't need it for the number of devices, so that seems like overkill for this issue.


Really think about this. It's surprisingly easy to exceed 100 devices. Especially if you make use of table dimmers, motion sensors and window shades. Granted, there's nothing that requires going with two main repeaters. You can easily add the second one later. But you'd be looking at needing both power AND ethernet for wherever it's placed. Just think about it and plan for it, especially if you're pulling wire. 

Other than how things are organized in the software (by 'rooms') there's nothing preventing devices on one repeater from interacting with ones on another. There is a very slight difference in performance if you have something like a keypad or sensor sending commands across main repeaters. So a little rejiggering is sometimes useful. 

Also consider something like a plastic (to allow for RF) equipment box if you're planning on stuffing this into a closet somewhere. Plan for fresh air circulation to avoid cooking the gizmos. And be sure to think about how dust from clothing might require cleaning the gear periodically.


----------



## spiwrx

FlyingDiver said:


> I was thinking of remote mounting the wall wart in the closet with the main repeater, and using the same cable for both the power and the mux link. Do you have a recommendation on the type of cable to use? How about for just the mux link if I have local power?


You could potentially use the same wire but you will need 6 conductors. Likely you have some left over speaker wire (CL2, 3 or 4) and can just use that. I believe Lutron recommends 18/4 for the MUX connections. If you have some 16 or 14AWG twisted pair(s) I'm sure that would do fine, we use a Belden type 18/4 all the time for the MUX without issue. Personally I would run them on 2 different cables, but I think you'll be fine either way.


----------



## dgage

FlyingDiver said:


> I'm taking the RadioRa 2 Level 2 class (ILT 722) next month, so I could plan on a two main repeater system, but I won't need it for the number of devices, so that seems like overkill for this issue. I can run cable, and I can get an outlet placed if needed. In fact, if I put an outlet there I could also run the WAP in that location from it and not have to deal with POE for that run.


Please let us know about the course when you're done. I don't need over 100 devices yet but it would be good to know about.


----------



## FlyingDiver

dgage said:


> Please let us know about the course when you're done. I don't need over 100 devices yet but it would be good to know about.


I did the BLAST Level 1 training on-line, and it was pretty straightforward. I have to pay for the Level 2 training, but since I'm going to be programming and maintaining the system for our 4000sqft new build myself, I decided it was worth a few hundred to get the Level 2 training and access to the Inclusive software.


----------



## FlyingDiver

wkearney99 said:


> Also consider something like a plastic (to allow for RF) equipment box if you're planning on stuffing this into a closet somewhere. Plan for fresh air circulation to avoid cooking the gizmos. And be sure to think about how dust from clothing might require cleaning the gear periodically.


The Main Repeater will be in the AV Closet, along with all the ethernet switching gear, routers, etc, etc.

The location I have in mind for the Secondary is the closet of the guest room, which is also the under-stairs area. So I can put it high up under the stairs, well away from the clothes rods (12' ceilings first floor). The only things that will be going there are the WAP and the repeater, both of which can be wall or ceiling mounted.


----------



## Swancoat

FlyingDiver said:


> I did the BLAST Level 1 training on-line, and it was pretty straightforward. I have to pay for the Level 2 training, but since I'm going to be programming and maintaining the system for our 4000sqft new build myself, I decided it was worth a few hundred to get the Level 2 training and access to the Inclusive software.



They let you do that as a 'lay' person? (As opposed to a pro or dealer).

That's huge, since I've been worried about bumping to the 100 devices.


----------



## dgage

FlyingDiver said:


> I did the BLAST Level 1 training on-line, and it was pretty straightforward. I have to pay for the Level 2 training, but since I'm going to be programming and maintaining the system for our 4000sqft new build myself, I decided it was worth a few hundred to get the Level 2 training and access to the Inclusive software.


Thanks. Looking for any tidbits such as the Blast Level 1 had some sales in it. Actually, I'm more interested if they find/figure out you're more of a DIYer (assuming you are) and whether they say anything. Just interested in high-level info about your take on the course really. I'm not near a 100 devices yet but I have also planned to take the Level 2 course if I get close. Have fun.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Swancoat said:


> They let you do that as a 'lay' person? (As opposed to a pro or dealer).
> 
> That's huge, since I've been worried about bumping to the 100 devices.


They never asked for dealer affiliation or anything like that. My Lutron profile does have "FlyingDiver Productions" as my company name, but that's it. 

If they give me a hard time, I'm going to insist on my money back for the training.

The Electrician we're using for the new home build can install Lutron, but they don't have a Lutron programmer at this time. They have someone local they occasionally subcontract to, but they were more than happy enough to leave it to me to set it up. OTOH, I'm not a typical homeowner or even DIY type. I did technical support for Apple for over 10 years, including managing the teams that provided all OS, Networking, and Development support to the Fortune 500 companies. Not app developers, that was a different group. My team supported the in-house Enterprise developers. I'm also a rocket scientist (well, Aerospace Engineer to be exact).


----------



## jautor

dgage said:


> Thanks. Looking for any tidbits such as the Blast Level 1 had some sales in it. Actually, I'm more interested if they find/figure out you're more of a DIYer (assuming you are) and whether they say anything.


They are perfectly fine with homeowners taking the coursework. They've got 'homeowner' right in the registration profile drop-down.



> Just interested in high-level info about your take on the course really. I'm not near a 100 devices yet but I have also planned to take the Level 2 course if I get close. Have fun.


The courses are actually pretty good. The marketing stuff is just the first few short videos, the recorded webinar / live webinar / in-person version is very informative and all tech. The exam is open book, which is good, as I didn't tend to pay attention to the gory product details that I knew I wasn't going to need in my install... 

You may stumble onto outdated requirement that you buy a starter kit or equivalent to gain access to the Essentials software. That's no longer the case - it was a vestige of the in-person-only training sessions (so that the dealer hosting the training could sell some gear for their trouble and expense)... 

Jeff


----------



## dgage

Janitor - not sure if I'm misunderstanding but we're talking about the Level 2 Onsite training, not the initial Blast training. FlyingDiver is going to take the Onsite course and I'll be interested to hear his feedback when he gets done.


----------



## jautor

dgage said:


> Janitor - not sure if I'm misunderstanding but we're talking about the Level 2 Onsite training, not the initial Blast training. FlyingDiver is going to take the Onsite course and I'll be interested to hear his feedback when he gets done.


Sorry - I read your note as if you were starting from the beginning of the journey...


----------



## FlyingDiver

FlyingDiver said:


> I was thinking of remote mounting the wall wart in the closet with the main repeater, and using the same cable for both the power and the mux link. Do you have a recommendation on the type of cable to use? How about for just the mux link if I have local power?


Turns out (this post: https://forums.lutron.com/showthread.php/491-Cable-to-Wire-Repeaters) Lutron specifies GRX-CBL-346S as the correct cable for this, which is:



> Four PELV (Class 2) conductors: (2) 1.0 mm2 (#18 AWG) for power wires; plus (1) twisted, shielded 1.00 mm2 (#22 AWG) pair for control wires


Then he says they only use the 2 control wires plus one of the 18AWG for ground. Pin 2 is not connected. Then something else for the power, if I still want to remote that. Though, to be honest, I'll bet you could connect the power ground to the Pin 1 ground and just use the four wires. 

I'll have to see what my LV vendor has or can get. He's a Control4 dealer, so he probably has whatever C4 uses for this purpose.


----------



## schalliol

Consumers can't take the L2 course (or perhaps they can, but they can't be L2 certified). L2 requires having done some projects, as I recall.


----------



## Swancoat

schalliol said:


> Consumers can't take the L2 course (or perhaps they can, but they can't be L2 certified). L2 requires having done some projects, as I recall.



Can they get the Inclusive software?


----------



## FlyingDiver

schalliol said:


> Consumers can't take the L2 course (or perhaps they can, but they can't be L2 certified). L2 requires having done some projects, as I recall.


What does it mean to be "L2 Certified"? I can't find that term on the LCI (Lighting Control Institute) website anywhere. Do you have a link to the requirements for this certification?

joe


----------



## FlyingDiver

Swancoat said:


> Can they get the Inclusive software?


Says so in the course description: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCI/AboutLCI/CourseDetail.aspx?CourseID=1000002

joe


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## Swancoat

That's the crux of it here, isn't it? I don't care to be 'certified' but I would like to be able to get access to Inclusive software.


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## schalliol

Well, to be certified means you are eligible for the software. It's possible they relaxed the criteria, but when I looked at it before it said that you had to submit information on at least two projects you have done in order to receive the software. I would ask before committing to it. The L2 software does let you access a few other pieces of hardware, but it's not a hugely significant improvement.


----------



## spiwrx

The biggest hurdle for most of you to get L2 training would be working with the right vendor in your area. They are your best shot of getting you into a L2 class. It is intended for professionals but for what it's worth call yourself an integrator or an AV installer. Secondly it's a substantial cost. At the end of the day, unless you really need more than 100 devices or a second main repeater, I think it's unnecessary in the majority of jobs I help with. From the course description (_my take on my experience with the L2 course)_:
*
This Course Will Help You…* 

Commission two main repeater systems with up to 200 devices. _(Basically the "inclusive" software "unlocks" the ability to add a second repeater & with it 100 more devices, it essentially programs like the 1st main. Nothing really special here except the ability to do it. The key here is balancing or dividing the devices on the 2 repeaters as each can still only handle 100. And trying to do it where any lag may not be as noticed, (e.g. between floors / rooms)) _
Program advanced timeclocks and HVAC._ (If the basic HVAC/Timeclock is not enough this may be one reason)_
Integrate with third party systems. _(this will entirely depend on the person doing the training, it may be as simple as plug into the RS232 and refer to the 3rd party equipment) _
Earn access to the RadioRA 2 Inclusive Software. _(again, mainly important to get over the 100 devices or if you have a need for a second main repeater) _
And more…_(unlocks a few devices like the WPM and some interfaces not available on essentials (L1), depending on your class they may get into shades training as well or at least try and do a sales job on you about them) _
I get asked about this a lot, people often think they are missing on something, but there's really not much more than what essentials gives you for the majority.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Hmm. Well, no time to dig into it this week, we're leaving in a couple hours to drive to Miami for the Boat Show. I'm going to call Lutron next week and ask about this. If I don't get access to the Inclusive software after the class, I'm going to cancel.


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## spiwrx

Not to get too much off topic, but just wanted to share this info for those interested (may have shared it before, but it came up again today). It's relative to dimming LED's (& CFL) in terms of listed dimming range vs. perceived light level. You might see a LED state "dims to 15%!!" when you get it home it only seems like 50% this article explains it...

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Measured_vs_Perceived.pdf


----------



## tritium6

Question: RRD-6NA requires a neutral. What kind of cable does NOT have a neutral?


----------



## jautor

tritium6 said:


> Question: RRD-6NA requires a neutral. What kind of cable does NOT have a neutral?


Requires neutral in the switch box - it is possible (and hopefully an outdated practice, but you may run into it if retrofitting) to wire to the light fixture first, and then just a hot to/from the switch. In that case, there will be no neutral in the box. 

Easy enough to check, open up a switch or three and see if you have one... I'd think if you see one in one room, you'll probably see the same everywhere.

Jeff


----------



## tritium6

Ok, great. So I can choose the 6CL or the 6NA. I'm going almost entirely LED (maybe a few halogen spotlights, but those might change to led too). Planning on those Cree bulbs rebranded by home depot.

I'm leaning towards the 6NA due to the lower minimum wattage rating (5 watts for the NA vs 10 for the CL). The NA also seems to dim to lower levels for most bulbs. The adaptive dimming sounds like it could save some configuration headaches when trying to work out which phase to use. 

This seems a little strange though that the advantages lean towards the 6NA since the 6CL was purpose built for LED. Am I missing something in my comparison? What are the tangible benefits of using the 6CL over the 6NA with my given bulbs?


----------



## Swancoat

6CL is cheaper.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## rapamatic

tritium6 said:


> This seems a little strange though that the advantages lean towards the 6NA since the 6CL was purpose built for LED. Am I missing something in my comparison? What are the tangible benefits of using the 6CL over the 6NA with my given bulbs?


I believe Paul had commented once that in some of his testing he saw better performance with the 6CL vs the 6NA in some LED applications. I'm sure he'll chime in shortly if I'm remembering correctly.


----------



## Swancoat

Does anyone know: on the black keypads, does the backlighting show THROUGH the engraved text?


----------



## jautor

Swancoat said:


> Does anyone know: on the black keypads, does the backlighting show THROUGH the engraved text?


Yes. From my theater keypads:


----------



## spiwrx

tritium6 said:


> Ok, great. So I can choose the 6CL or the 6NA. I'm going almost entirely LED (maybe a few halogen spotlights, but those might change to led too). Planning on those Cree bulbs rebranded by home depot.
> 
> I'm leaning towards the 6NA due to the lower minimum wattage rating (5 watts for the NA vs 10 for the CL). The NA also seems to dim to lower levels for most bulbs. The adaptive dimming sounds like it could save some configuration headaches when trying to work out which phase to use.
> 
> This seems a little strange though that the advantages lean towards the 6NA since the 6CL was purpose built for LED. Am I missing something in my comparison? What are the tangible benefits of using the 6CL over the 6NA with my given bulbs?


Yes, Ray that was my experience. I saw (slightly) extended range on the 6CL though I had hoped it would take care of the buzzing in my Halo 4in LED's as well and it didn't. Though the humming/buzzing is slight, I think I'll revert to the 6NA or I may change to a Juno 4" LED(more likely). These Halo's are notorious for this occasional problem, typically relieved with 6NA (or other ELV) dimmer. When the 6CL came out I thought I'd test it here, but I rather have it noise free than additional low end. 

Lutron keeps stressing the minimum on the CL is "1 lamp" but that 1 lamp has to be tested and on their list. If you are using their LED selection tool they added a new group under product selection which is called "Radio Ra 2 CL" if you want to see whats tested and the results. Remember this dimmer is meant for LED Lamps not retro trim kits or other LED products like tapes and strips. I which they had a better name for it, but my ultimate recommendation on dimming LED is crossing the Lutron list and the light manufacturers recommendations. If the manufacturer does not have a published list or instruction with at least one of Lutron or Levitons dimmers I would stay away from that lamp or fixture. Please be wary of "Cree" labeling. Cree makes amazing stuff, unfortunately they also sell chips to lesser light manufacturers of questionable quality, marketing their product seemingly as a Cree product.


----------



## Neurorad

What are some easy ways to control RA2 with IR?


----------



## jautor

Neurorad said:


> What are some easy ways to control RA2 with IR?


Keypad or Hybrid keypad with the IR lens button kit.


----------



## Swancoat

Neurorad said:


> What are some easy ways to control RA2 with IR?



I'm using an Insteon IR receiver in my media room to activate RadioRA 2 with software on my computer handling the transition. Lag is less than a second, and fully acceptable for media room use. Although, I acknowledge Jautor's solution is ideal - just wouldn't work for me logistically.


----------



## CSO

Hello all,

I am in the process of designing a retrofit for various rooms in my house with RadioRA2 switches and dimmers. A few of the rooms have multigang wall boxes with separate switches for ceiling fans/lights.

Is it worth the expense to incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa system? Do users find that they need remote control of their ceiling fans?

Or is it reasonable to save a little money and not incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 system?


----------



## Swancoat

I'm incorporating them for a few reasons:

Although I rarely want to turn fans on or change speed with automation, I do like to have the option to shut them all off when I leave the house or something.

Secondly, I'm sort of anal retentive and it's worth the additional marginal outlay just to have everything done and uniformity of appearance at the wall plate. This is a pretty weak argument, I know.


----------



## notek

It's nice to hit a button on a Pico / tabletop keypad / iPhone Widget and turn the fan on, without getting up. It's nice to hit one button on a keypad / iPhone Widget and turn everything off in the room. It also looks nice on the wall, as Swancoat mentioned. I guess I am just too lazy...


----------



## wkearney99

I have my "All Off" scenes set to include turning off the fans. I likewise have bedside keypads in the master bedroom configured to toggle them on/off (to one of the speeds).

I do not yet have my family room fan installed but can definitely see where being able to control it from multiple locations (large open space adjacent to kitchen) will come in handy.

I'd use them for bathroom fans but there's no 'simple' way to have a timer associated with them, like on the non-RA Lutron countdown fan timers. THOSE are great for bathrooms. They use the from side switch (dimmer adjustment on RA2 lights) to adjust the timer duration. I'd LOVE to have that kind of functionality with RA integration.

I plan on moving one of the fan controllers to a different spot as the wall only has a two gang box (and no room for more). I'll use the keypad for the fan speed & light, along with another dimmer for the ceiling recessed cans. Right now the fan light isn't switched (just the chain). I could move that dimmer somewhere else but I feel it'd be more useful to have a hybrid dimmer/keypad there instead (as there's no hybrid/fan device). I suspect they'd sell a lot of them if they made a fan/light combo unit.


----------



## CSO

Thank you to those who replied about the ceiling fans. I will likely incorporate the frequently used ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 retrofit.

What about walk-in closets? I like the idea of occupancy sensors in walk-in closets, and automating closet lighting with RadioRa2 seems easy enough. However, I can achieve the objective for a lot lower cost using products from Lutron's Maestro line. 

What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?


----------



## dgage

CSO said:


> What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?


I don't think it's worth it. I use the Maestro occupancy sensor/switches for bathrooms, closet, laundry room, etc.


----------



## wkearney99

CSO said:


> Thank you to those who replied about the ceiling fans. I will likely incorporate the frequently used ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 retrofit.
> 
> What about walk-in closets? I like the idea of occupancy sensors in walk-in closets, and automating closet lighting with RadioRa2 seems easy enough. However, I can achieve the objective for a lot lower cost using products from Lutron's Maestro line.
> 
> What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?


Given the overall cost, the addition of a dimmer and a motion sensor is pretty trivial. I find it helpful to have the ability to set a scheduled event to turn it and other lights off on a regular basis. With the motion sensor that's not 'necessary' since it can be programmed to turn it off on it's own. That and separating the sensor from the wall switch allows for being able to fine tune exactly where the motion will trigger it. In our master closet that would not have been convenient as there are two doors into it and the line of sight to both wall switch positions are blocked by cabinetry. A sensor on the ceiling is the only place that works.


----------



## schalliol

The only main RR2 advantage with RR2 in closets I is the ability to integrate the lights with an alarm system. You might want your closet lights to turn on if there's a burglar or the low lights if there's a fire. I don't currently have my system integrated to a panel.

I suppose I could see an "endgame" use as well of turning the lights on for a house showing with one button, but that's probably of trivial value.


----------



## spiwrx

CSO said:


> Is it worth the expense to incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa system? Do users find that they need remote control of their ceiling fans?
> 
> Or is it reasonable to save a little money and not incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 system?


You have to look at how you use your fans now. If you use your fans a lot but rarely change speed, just use the RR2 Switch (you can change speed on the unit/chain directly). If you use them often and frequently change speed, definitely recommend the Speed control. I have the RR2 speed controls but mostly leave them on the same speed. I have a "catch-all" timeclock setting which shuts everything down at 2am, for us this works perfect because by then the fan is usually unnecessary. You may want something like that and set multiple times to gradually reduce speed, or exclude the fan._ (~~~be sure the Fan Speed control is compatible with your fan, it works with most common fans but some of them now have proprietary controls and/or DC motors that may not be compatible~~~)_

Sometimes my customers get bit by the bug and want to control everything, but the nice thing with RR2 is you can always add it later...


----------



## notek

dgage said:


> I don't think it's worth it. I use the Maestro occupancy sensor/switches for bathrooms, closet, laundry room, etc.


While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.


----------



## dgage

notek said:


> While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.


Was thinking more like powder rooms as my master bath has RR2 also...sorry for the confusion. Also, my kids/guest bathroom has a night light to go along with RR2 lighting for path assistance.


----------



## wkearney99

dgage said:


> Was thinking more like powder rooms as my master bath has RR2 also...sorry for the confusion. Also, my kids/guest bathroom has a night light to go along with RR2 lighting for path assistance.


As I mentioned, the RA2 sensors can control different sets of lights for the occupancy & vacancy setting. I use it specifically in the powder room to control turning on the vanity light, but then also going back and turning off BOTH the vanity light AND the ceiling recessed lights. In another bath I also use it to turn the exhaust fan off, which is on a RA2 switch (regular switch, not a fan control as it's just a bath fan/light combo). You're not going to get this flexibility with sensors built into the switches (that and you don't get stuck with the switch line of sight).

For nightlights I've had tremendously good success with some "Mr. Beams MB532" battery operated ones. They take 3 C-cell batteries and last quite a long time (almost two years now). I used 3M command strip tapes for them to find the ideal placement.


----------



## wkearney99

notek said:


> While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.


I've yet to 'get into' scenes. I grasp the concept, but we really don't use the spaces in ways that have lent themselves to dedicated scenes on buttons. The dilemma is trying to gauge the right balance between direct control of various devices vs dedicating buttons to specific light levels and combinations. For a space like a theater, sure, it makes a lot of sense to have a button for a specific 'movie' mode, especially if it ties into triggering a retractable screen or other features. But for day-to-day, scenes don't make a lot of sense to me. At least not tied specifically to tiny little buttons on a wall switch. With a touchscreen and good graphics, yeah.

I am, however, interested in being able to experiment with using them as scenes on a tablet remote. Haven't fiddled much with it yet but iRule is my likely candidate for some of this.


----------



## dgage

Some of my nightlights predate RR2 as I had small kids and haven't felt the need to change. Just as an FYI, I have one of these full nightlights on the stairs and a half nightlight in the kids/guest bathroom. They continue to work well but RR2 would be nice too when the kids leave lights on in the bathroom. 

http://www.legrand.us/electrical-outlets/nightlight.aspx#.VPCZSC4-1Sk


----------



## spiwrx

dgage said:


> Some of my nightlights predate RR2 as I had small kids and haven't felt the need to change. Just as an FYI, I have one of these full nightlights on the stairs and a half nightlight in the kids/guest bathroom. They continue to work well but RR2 would be nice too when the kids leave lights on in the bathroom.
> 
> http://www.legrand.us/electrical-outlets/nightlight.aspx#.VPCZSC4-1Sk


The Legrand lights are good, and they have a lot of options, the LED tends to be on the Blue side though. Leviton also makes some and we prefer them and they do have a warmer light. 
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=42299&minisite=10251


----------



## schalliol

To be clear, I'm cross-posting this on Lutron's forums, but I thought I'd get different information here:

How different are RRD-6NA vs 6CL vs 10ND vs HxD-6ND? I know the HxD6ND obviously is a HomeWorks product, but I use it for comparison.

As an example, the link below says that the RRD-10ND, RRD-6CL, HxD-6ND LQRJ-WPM-6P should work, but no 6NA is listed. Is this deliberate, and why would a 6NA not work when a 6CL would? Would Lutron simply not have tested this unit or would they have tested it and found it to fail?

I have six of these BR30 that work well with a 6NA I've heard some say that the performance of the 6NA with dimming is just a bit better than for the 6CL, while I've heard others say the 10ND would be better.

6NA aside, when all the items show up in the LED tool, would someone always go for the lowest cost item that's on the list (provided you use the appropriate loading).

I would like to know the fundamentals of what's going on here. Thanks for any thoughts!

Lutron LED Tool TCP 12W BR30


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> To be clear, I'm cross-posting this on Lutron's forums, but I thought I'd get different information here:
> 
> How different are RRD-6NA vs 6CL vs 10ND vs HxD-6ND? I know the HxD6ND obviously is a HomeWorks product, but I use it for comparison.
> 
> As an example, the link below says that the RRD-10ND, RRD-6CL, HxD-6ND LQRJ-WPM-6P should work, but no 6NA is listed. Is this deliberate, and why would a 6NA not work when a 6CL would? Would Lutron simply not have tested this unit or would they have tested it and found it to fail?
> 
> I have six of these BR30 that work well with a 6NA I've heard some say that the performance of the 6NA with dimming is just a bit better than for the 6CL, while I've heard others say the 10ND would be better.
> 
> 6NA aside, when all the items show up in the LED tool, would someone always go for the lowest cost item that's on the list (provided you use the appropriate loading).
> 
> I would like to know the fundamentals of what's going on here. Thanks for any thoughts!
> 
> Lutron LED Tool TCP 12W BR30


Interesting, First off I would expect the Homeworks and the same RR2 part (e.g. 10ND) to treat the load the same. 

Second, they probably didn't get a desirable or possibly inconsistent result(s) from the 6NA. If the 10ND preformed as well as stated, the 6NA is the same price. (No need to go further)

To that point, the 6CL also posted near perfect testing. I would recommend the 6CL over the 6NA_ (by a slight margin)_ from my own testing due to increased range on the 6CL_(again, slight difference perceptually)_. 

So ultimately I don't have a direct answer with support documentation. But If your load is supported I would use the 6CL. If your load is not listed or close the the min/max of the test report I would go 6NA or 10ND. Personally I like the 6NA because you can change the phase control and this helps with difficult LED's sometimes. The 10ND does not have that option, but fills in where you may need to handle more wattage than the 6CL or low minimum wattage._ (Test reports are limited to 12 lamps/fixtures, so in this case the results are the same, but I would venture to guess the 10ND could handle closer to 250watts of LED)_

One thing I don't like is the vague footnote on the 6CL (R3). So I called and this is in ref. to the current revision of the dimmer. They told me this is the only version on the 6CL _(so why not R1?)_ but the foot note is there to differentiate if there becomes an updated version. 

Their standard answer for almost all LED applications is use the chart (LED Matrix / Product Selections tool), personally he told me if it's not on any reports the 6NA is best bet. 

Some side dialog while he was looking up info, and referring to my questions why the 6NA isn't reflected, confirms my suspicion above that it likely had less than desirable performance compared to the others. He could speak specifically on this combination but said they would not publish a "black list". 

I know this from prior interactions with them on these issues, unless there is a favorable report or possible solution, you won't likely find a report card on that item, even though they probably have tested it. 

FYI, TCP's in a little hot water legally right now, kind of an interesting story about the board suing the CEO, but we've been selling their LED lamps for few years and the performance has always been great.


----------



## schalliol

Paul, very insightful as always!

I wish Lutron would publish a black list so we know when they are sure it doesn't work well. In my own home I have a bunch of 6NAs and a bunch of 6Ds but no CLs.

Can anyone elaborate on how the 6CL works vs the 6NA? I understand the 6NA is phase adaptive, but so too must the 6CL perhaps only in automatic. I understand how reverse and forward phases work, but I'd love to understand how each dimmer operates differently


----------



## CSO

Has anyone had any issues with RRD-6NA controlling ELV loads? I have one in a kitchen that worked fine for about a month and then the dimmer started behaving oddly. If left on for a while, the dimmer intermittently becomes unresponsive. The ELV load is still powered on, but the dimmer won't respond to local or RF commands. Only pulling the FASS switch resets the dimmer so that it can be used again. The dimmer is fine for a while until this happens again. This does not happen while the load is turned off. I have verified the connections in the wall box, and all are good. The 6NA is connected to the neutral wire too. There is no companion dimmer on the circuit. I tried different phases of dimming on the adaptive dimmer and that didn't seem to make a difference in this sporadic problem. I am in the process of contacting Lutron technical support to see if they have any ideas. I wanted to see if anyone here has had similar issues. At the moment, I don't know if this is a hardware or software problem. The switch really did work fine for about a month. I don't know why I am having problems now.

Edit: Oops. One thing I've realized is that I was not changing the phase configuration when I thought I was. I was triple tap resetting the 6NA to factory default, and then using local APM to configure the dimmer for reverse phase, and then re-transfering data from Essentials. What I failed to realize is that re-transferring data from Essentials overrides APM settings. Now, I see there is an option for phase (auto, forward, reverse) in Essentials under advanced settings. It is only in the past week or so that I configured the project using Essentials and installed the main repeater. This may explain why my 6NA seemed to work fine for the month prior to PC control. 

If this doesn't help then Lutron has suggested using a different ELV power supply, which seems like a bit of an excuse, but this will be my next step if taking the dimmer out of auto phase selection doesn't resolve my problem.


----------



## CSO

I installed a couple RRD-2ANF fan controllers in my retrofit project. Boy, they are big devices. One must plan carefully when installing them. They install easier if placed on the end of the box in multigang applications. Also the fan controller has a neutral wire connection which was not described in my installation report that was generated by Essentials. Attached are a couple pictures comparing the depth of the RRD-2ANF with a RRD-6CL. The fan controller is about 1/2" deeper than the standard dimmer.


----------



## nu77

Anyone know if there's an app for Mac or iPad that lets you set up scenes and upload them to RadioRA2 repeaters and keypads? I know that Lutron has a Windows app for this (that requires training) (and I'll eat my iPad if I ever let another Windows machine in my house). 

I've done a little investigation and it seems that none of these can do it: Lutron Home Control+, iRule, Indigo.


----------



## FlyingDiver

The only way to program RRA2 is the Lutron Essentials/Inclusive software. Windows only. I use Parallels to run it.


----------



## spiwrx

CSO said:


> Has anyone had any issues with RRD-6NA controlling ELV loads? ---edited see above for full post---


This is an occasional problem with the 6NA. Try locking it into Reverse phase for ELV. We have seen this problem in the past and unfortunate it usually ultimately lead to the failure of the device, if you caught it early chances are better from my experience. I think this problem is associated to the auto-detect feature and wondering if it's associated with a shared neutral? Lutron is remaining particularly tight lipped on this one as of now. Good news, of those that have been replaced and locked into appropriate phase control, they seem to be fine. (Please note and older version of the software (7.x?)defaults the 6NA to a particular bias (Fwd/Rev) I cannot recall, so please update your software and it should default to "auto"_ ~ though in this particular case you want to lock it to Rev. ~_). Current version is 8.2 if you're not up to date.


----------



## Swancoat

nu77 said:


> Anyone know if there's an app for Mac or iPad that lets you set up scenes and upload them to RadioRA2 repeaters and keypads? I know that Lutron has a Windows app for this (that requires training) (and I'll eat my iPad if I ever let another Windows machine in my house).
> 
> I've done a little investigation and it seems that none of these can do it: Lutron Home Control+, iRule, Indigo.



I was going to run it in Parallels, but I have a few other very occasional uses for a windows machine. Plus, parallels isn't free, plus you have to buy Windows to run on it.

So instead I bought an HP Stream 13 laptop. I paid $199 for it. That's the price of a 10ND. And comparable to a Parallels and Windows setup. Plus, a laptop is handy for the activation phase of RadioRA. If you buy it at the Microsoft Store there is a signature edition that has no 3rd party software.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> I wish Lutron would publish a black list so we know when they are sure it doesn't work well. In my own home I have a bunch of 6NAs and a bunch of 6Ds but no CLs.


Me To! But they have to protect some of their business relationships. Many of these companies buy Lutron Ballasts and Drivers for other products, or recommend Lutron dimmers in their literature. 



> Can anyone elaborate on how the 6CL works vs the 6NA? I understand the 6NA is phase adaptive, but so too must the 6CL perhaps only in automatic. I understand how reverse and forward phases work, but I'd love to understand how each dimmer operates differently


I understand it is still forward phase and must be, as it would require a neutral connection to establish zero crossing to determine fwd/rev (or ???). Unfortunately the magic behind the CL is not published. And they are quite proud to keep saying it works "with just one lamp" _(as long as that lamp is on the approved list) _If someone know more I would love to know as well. 

A couple other companies are making "adaptive" type dimmers now as well, however it's been my experience that they are also as quirky, in some cases.


----------



## CSO

spiwrx said:


> CSO said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with RRD-6NA controlling ELV loads? ---edited see above for full post---
> 
> 
> 
> This is an occasional problem with the 6NA. Try locking it into Reverse phase for ELV. We have seen this problem in the past and unfortunate it usually ultimately lead to the failure of the device, if you caught it early chances are better from my experience. I think this problem is associated to the auto-detect feature and wondering if it's associated with a shared neutral...
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. I tried forcing the dimmer into reverse phase using Lutron's Essentials app, but the same problem happened. I am in the process of changing the LED driver as suggested by Lutron, but I'm not confident this will solve my problem. For the time being, while I await arrival of the new LED driver, I have the dimmer "offline" with the FASS switch pulled.


----------



## Swancoat

CSO said:


> I installed a couple RRD-2ANF fan controllers in my retrofit project. Boy, they are big devices. One must plan carefully when installing them. They install easier if placed on the end of the box in multigang applications. Also the fan controller has a neutral wire connection which was not described in my installation report that was generated by Essentials. Attached are a couple pictures comparing the depth of the RRD-2ANF with a RRD-6CL. The fan controller is about 1/2" deeper than the standard dimmer.



You must be the guy with all the 2ANFs 

They seem to be the one thing consistently backordered for me.


----------



## nu77

Regarding programming the keypads with Lutron's custom Windows app... I'm really surprised that it isn't just a simple matter of sending some commands to the repeater to set up the names for the dimmers and scenes. It appears that the everything else can be done with either Lutron Home Control+, iRule or Indigo (associating dimmers with scenes, and setting levels). :-(


----------



## FlyingDiver

nu77 said:


> Regarding programming the keypads with Lutron's custom Windows app... I'm really surprised that it isn't just a simple matter of sending some commands to the repeater to set up the names for the dimmers and scenes. It appears that the everything else can be done with either Lutron Home Control+, iRule or Indigo (associating dimmers with scenes, and setting levels). :-(


 I don't know about iRule or Home Control+, but I do know Indigo. And it can't program the RRA2 system at all. What it CAN do is access the existing programming by monitoring button and LED states, and activate phantom buttons. But that's NOT programming the keypads or repeater.


----------



## wkearney99

nu77 said:


> Regarding programming the keypads with Lutron's custom Windows app... I'm really surprised that it isn't just a simple matter of sending some commands to the repeater to set up the names for the dimmers and scenes. It appears that the everything else can be done with either Lutron Home Control+, iRule or Indigo (associating dimmers with scenes, and setting levels). :-(


If you think about what it takes to configure scenes, high/low thresholds, delays (both start and dim duration) and then bump it out across all the devices, it's not just a 'simple matter'. The UI does an astoundingly good job of whipping it all into shape. Better than I've seen on anything else for lights like this. That and I believe the code base is shared across RA2, Shades and Homeworks QS. 

So while your needs might be simple, the full range of what's possible, and do-able in the program, is quite robust. I'd venture they "could" make it all work in an iOS app but then they're trapped dealing with Apple's nonsense regarding updates (no thanks).


----------



## wkearney99

FlyingDiver said:


> I don't know about iRule or Home Control+, but I do know Indigo. And it can't program the RRA2 system at all. What it CAN do is access the existing programming by monitoring button and LED states, and activate phantom buttons. But that's NOT programming the keypads or repeater.


Right, and remember, things that affect a LOT of lights are often best handled with a scene. This way you're only sending ONE command and the scene that's already programmed into the devices handles responding accordingly. As in, a scene called "All Off" sends only one command, even if it's affecting up to 200 devices (100 each, on two repeaters). It's NOT going to have to send the same command 100 times and then again 100 more on the second repeater. 

I don't know exactly how much memory the devices possess but it's clearly enough to allow quite a lot of scenes being involved. Likely more than most residences are ever likely to run up against (and, if so, they should have gone with QS instead).


----------



## schalliol

Does anyone know how to get the new 4 button Picos engraved? This is now an option (un-sure if you can engrave the older non 4-buttons). I can't find information anywhere, but Lutron says it's available as of January '15

Engraved Picos has been one of my big requests!


----------



## schalliol

Paul is helping me out on this, and I assume he can help others who wonder about this. You buy the unit with the engraving (as opposed to the keypad send in for a button kit).


----------



## spiwrx

*vcrx*

A few random things:


Poking around in my "APP" it looks like they added support to directly operate the VCRX CCO's, previously I had created virtual keypads to trigger these.
I had opportunity to help program a small project and the customer had a "Windows" phone, someone has written and "APP" for RR2 in there but it's not very useful, and sent segmented commands, as in shutting off a room with 4 circuits, it shut them off in sequence instead of all at once. If you have a windows phone, I'm sorry but it was only $2 and it did offer some base level operations.
As described above, the 4Button Pico can be custom engraved with limited options, and the best utility for for the engraving is in the software as the current "engraving sheet" has fewer options. _(Engraving is done at time of ordering and can take 2-3 weeks) _
The 4 Button Pico comes in some variations, but it seems the 4th (bottom) button is reserved for "All Off" in all cases, making at best a 3 scene + All Off. Still a pretty clean unit.
I getting asked a lot about the Grafik T, be careful if you order these as they are available in both a wireless and RR2 versions (Similar to the Maestro RF and RR2).
If you haven't upgraded software in while, I'm at 8.2 and I haven't checked in a few weeks for a newer one.


----------



## dgage

Paul - I resent all of your remarks against "Windows" Phone...why the quotes? I like my phablet Lumia 1520 just fine thank you.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## J_P_A

I feel like this has been asked before, but I can't find it now. What is the easiest way to integrate RR2 with a logitech harmony remote? Do I still need to run an IR emitter to my keypad and use a micro to change between scenes?


----------



## Swancoat

J_P_A said:


> I feel like this has been asked before, but I can't find it now. What is the easiest way to integrate RR2 with a logitech harmony remote? Do I still need to run an IR emitter to my keypad and use a micro to change between scenes?



If it's a regular keypad (as opposed to hybrid keypad), and you don't need all 6 buttons, there's a configuration with an IR window on the front.


----------



## Swancoat

spiwrx said:


> A few random things:
> 
> 
> Poking around in my "APP" it looks like they added support to directly operate the VCRX CCO's, previously I had created virtual keypads to trigger these.






Hey Paul, regarding the VCRX CCOs, it appears you can control them directly from the iOS app if they are set to 'Sustained On'. If they are set for momentary actuation, they don't show up.

Another note on apps, I recently downloaded HomeSense from the AppStore. One one hand it's relatively similar to Lutron's app (and costs a similar $19.99) but it has two key improvements:

1: it has a summary of how many lights are on, and the list of rooms has an icon depicting if there are any light on in that particular room.

2: it has the ability to select up to 5 loads or devices that will show up in a control center widget. So for stuff you access a lot, you don't have to unlock your phone, start the app and find the device. Just turn the screen on and swipe down. (Yes, we've become that lazy).


----------



## Neurorad

Swancoat said:


> If it's a regular keypad (as opposed to hybrid keypad), and you don't need all 6 buttons, there's a configuration with an IR window on the front.


I've read that some Lutron keypads have IR receivers on the back as well. Not sure about RA2.


----------



## Swancoat

Neurorad said:


> I've read that some Lutron keypads have IR receivers on the back as well. Not sure about RA2.



When I installed my last keypad I looked. There's a hole there for sure, but I'm not sure if it's a jack (doesn't really look like one) or just a place to put an emitter.


----------



## dgage

Swancoat said:


> Hey Paul, regarding the VCRX CCOs, it appears you can control them directly from the iOS app if they are set to 'Sustained On'. If they are set for momentary actuation, they don't show up.
> 
> Another note on apps, I recently downloaded HomeSense from the AppStore. One one hand it's relatively similar to Lutron's app (and costs a similar $19.99) but it has two key improvements:
> 
> 1: it has a summary of how many lights are on, and the list of rooms has an icon depicting if there are any light on in that particular room.
> 
> 2: it has the ability to select up to 5 loads or devices that will show up in a control center widget. So for stuff you access a lot, you don't have to unlock your phone, start the app and find the device. Just turn the screen on and swipe down. (Yes, we've become that lazy).


Thanks for the info on HomeSense Swancoat. But I went to look for it in the AppStore on my iPad and couldn't find it. Is that the correct name or is it iPhone only? Thanks.


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> When I installed my last keypad I looked. There's a hole there for sure, but I'm not sure if it's a jack (doesn't really look like one) or just a place to put an emitter.


The hole is there for the IR emitter("bugeye"). There is no connection, just stick the emitter over the hole. Never used it myself, or heard how well that method works, but that's the intention.


----------



## Swancoat

dgage said:


> Thanks for the info on HomeSense Swancoat. But I went to look for it in the AppStore on my iPad and couldn't find it. Is that the correct name or is it iPhone only? Thanks.



I THINK it's iphone only.


----------



## dgage

Swancoat said:


> I THINK it's iphone only.


That's what I was thinking. Thank you.


----------



## Neurorad

spiwrx said:


> Swancoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I installed my last keypad I looked. There's a hole there for sure, but I'm not sure if it's a jack (doesn't really look like one) or just a place to put an emitter.
> 
> 
> 
> The hole is there for the IR emitter("bugeye"). There is no connection, just stick the emitter over the hole. Never used it myself, or heard how well that method works, but that's the intention.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's widely publicised, because of the NEC requirement for rated emitters, in the junction box. Any tips on a finding them?


----------



## J_P_A

spiwrx said:


> The hole is there for the IR emitter("bugeye"). There is no connection, just stick the emitter over the hole. Never used it myself, or heard how well that method works, but that's the intention.


Is there an IR receiver on the front of the keypad? If not, I'll likely be trying the emitter in the back. As far as I can tell, I don't really have any other option for integration with a harmony remote.


----------



## spiwrx

J_P_A said:


> Is there an IR receiver on the front of the keypad? If not, I'll likely be trying the emitter in the back. As far as I can tell, I don't really have any other option for integration with a harmony remote.


Yes, the 5 button regular keypads (non-hybrid) have an IR option (eg: RRD-W5BRL*IR*-color). You sacrifice a button, or 2 but this gives you that IR window up front. 

The back-end/base-unit is the same for all (non-hybrid) keypads, so this is also a option you can select upon engraving as well, even if it was not originally ordered as an IR version. You can apply the 5button IR cover/button kit to it. 

PSA: As mentioned above, for this to be a NEC compliant installation, if the keypad is operating on 120vac, then all the wire in that box should be rated no less than 120vac, including the bugeye wire. _Further, you can run the keypad on 48volts and we've even powered them on 24v. Lutron recommends 48. _


----------



## Neurorad

I found several CL3 rated emitters using google

http://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/infrared-single-blaster.html

http://www.amazon.com/Receiver-Emitter-Extension-Infrared-Resources/dp/B003UKJR7E

I think you just attach the emitter to the back of the junction box.


----------



## J_P_A

Excellent! Thanks for the links!

I'll get one ordered. I need to look at how much space I have in the box. I think I'll need an angled one. 90 degree might be preferred. The last time I looked at the back of the keypad, I remember thinking the IR eye was shrouded by the keypad housing. 

Once I get the emitter wired up we'll see how well it works.


----------



## schalliol

I've used the Lutron Spacer System before that shows their IR blaster that comes with the SPS-5WCR. I have one of these IR blasters in my Lutron bin, but I don't know if you can buy them on their own.


----------



## Neurorad

Thanks, schalliol. That document shows how the IR blaster is inside the box, but the LV wires stay outside of the box. I don't see those Lutron Spacer IR blasters available on their own, either, using google.

That blaster is designed to affect all of the keypads/switches inside the junction box. I guess that's why they call it a blaster, and not an emitter.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> I've used the Lutron Spacer System before that shows their IR blaster that comes with the SPS-5WCR. I have one of these IR blasters in my Lutron bin, but I don't know if you can buy them on their own.


Yes, Spacer & Spacer System is more or less obsolete _(or at least they have priced it into obsolescence)_. The IR systems, including Maestro IR havesuccumb to the MRF2 / Pico, RF systems _(and likely these to the Casetta)_. I don't remember the Blaster being sold separately, but I thought they came with 2 blasters, so there might, and probably is, some surplus out there somewhere.

The blasters were only necessary when mounting the keypad away from the dimmers. In most cases the Keypad was in the same box, making them unnecessary.


----------



## schalliol

Yes, I actually bought my Spacer System gear from your company, perhaps almost 10 years ago.

This is a bit of a tangent, but because the system has a strong memories for me:
My understanding was that the SPS-5WCR did not have internal blasting capability (R stands for remote) so I used them to blast in the ganged location and one other location. I actually use the IR into a Xantech box to go further. It was fun to make these guys work, but it required a lot of work in a retrofit situation.

Sticker 1: Listed 6B38 (UL logo below) M43
Sticker 2: A449615 (part number?) "FOR USE WITH SPS-5WCR AND SPS-SERIES DIMMERS ONLY"

To be clear, there's no reason to do Spacer System anymore, but it was the big one for IR control. I have to say that there's probably a better way today than using IR for a RA2 install.


----------



## J_P_A

I have a harmony one, and from the Logitech website it looks like it integrates with something called a Lutron Smart Bridge. Anyone have experience with one of these?


----------



## jautor

J_P_A said:


> I have a harmony one, and from the Logitech website it looks like it integrates with something called a Lutron Smart Bridge. Anyone have experience with one of these?


That's the Lutron Caseta system... Not RA2.


----------



## J_P_A

I haven't been keeping up with this since I bought my dimmers and equipment several months ago (maybe a year by now), but I'm must getting around to installing everything. Is RA2 being phased out by Caseta? I'll be more than a little disappointed if my lighting equipment is already being phased out and I'm just now installing it in the first room of my house.


----------



## jkv

Caseta is not meant to replace RA2, it is meant for single room solutions and/or small spaces. RA2 is the large space/whole-house solution...unless you have a need to make the jump to QS.


----------



## schalliol

Last I'll say about the IR, here's what I put together a bunch of years ago on IR through the walls you might be interested in: http://www.schalliol.com/property/electronics/lightingsystem


----------



## dgage

schalliol said:


> Last I'll say about the IR, here's what I put together a bunch of years ago on IR through the walls you might be interested in: http://www.schalliol.com/property/electronics/lightingsystem


Thanks for sharing but I couldn't get that web link to come up.


----------



## schalliol

dgage said:


> Thanks for sharing but I couldn't get that web link to come up.


Interesting. I made a domain update yesterday, which perhaps didn't go through on your end yet. This URL should work.


----------



## CSO

This post details odd operation with a Lutron ceiling mount sensor in an office closet.

I recently installed a Lutron Radio Power Savr ceiling mount occupancy/vacancy sensor in a walk-in office closet with the intent of using the sensor to turn the closet lights on and off. Initially, I configured the sensor and wall dimmer switch, then I set the sensor on a lower shelf in the closet while I attended to other installations in the house. The sensor worked fine for those few days on the lower shelf. Then I got around to mounting the sensor on the ceiling of this closet. Once the sensor was on the ceiling it ceased to control the closet lights. I tried triple tap resetting the dimmer and sensor, deactivating/reactivating the devices from the repeater, and even relocating the sensor on the ceiling. None of these interventions made the sensor work. I thought I was going to have to arrange for a warranty replacement for the ceiling sensor. Then, feeling defeated, I put the sensor back on the lower shelf. Voila. The sensor and switch worked again. It should be noted that on the upper shelf in this closet is a wifi router. I am aware that RadioRA2 does not communicate at the same frequencies as wifi, but somehow this router must be interfering with proper operation of the occupancy sensor. 

I am curious to know if others have had issues with occupancy sensors in proximity to wifi routers.


----------



## wkearney99

CSO said:


> I am curious to know if others have had issues with occupancy sensors in proximity to wifi routers.


I have several of the sensors. I have a right-angle one on a shelf in the office closet, about 2 feet from a wifi router. I have no issues with it's operation.

I have others throughout the house. One is ceiling mounted in a room on the other side of an interior wall from a wifi access point. It has demonstrated no reliability issues. The rest aren't near wifi routers.

Here's a suggestion, try using the sensor with the wifi router turned completely off (unplugged). If it functions then there's something wrong with that router. Thankfully they're pretty cheap these days. You'd likely waste more time trying to determine just what about the router is defective than it would to just replace it. That or attach a wifi access point and disable the wifi features of the problematic one you've got. 

But if the sensor continues to malfunction even with the router totally turned off then what's on the other side of that ceiling? Any air handler units above it? Or something else that might be making an excess of RF/electrical noise?


----------



## FlyingDiver

*Attaching remote dimmers to LQRJ-WPM-6P?*

Cross-posted from forums.lutron.com:

I'm working up a design for a house, and am planning on using LQRJ-WPM-6P modules for most if not all of the dimmable loads. As I was adding devices (Inclusive SW), I attempted to attach an RD-RD to one of the loads on an WPM. Could not figure out how to do it. Is that not possible? If I need switch locations for WPM loads I have to use a keypad of some kind? That's kinda annoying where I only need one control...


----------



## FlyingDiver

FlyingDiver said:


> I'm working up a design for a house, and am planning on using LQRJ-WPM-6P modules for most if not all of the dimmable loads. As I was adding devices (Inclusive SW), I attempted to attach an RD-RD to one of the loads on an WPM. Could not figure out how to do it. Is that not possible? If I need switch locations for WPM loads I have to use a keypad of some kind? That's kinda annoying where I only need one control...


Nothing? Bummer. A call to tech support is probably in order.


----------



## Neurorad

Can't you just remove control from that WPM and use a dimmer instead of the RD-RD, for that particular load?


----------



## FlyingDiver

Neurorad said:


> Can't you just remove control from that WPM and use a dimmer instead of the RD-RD, for that particular load?


Sure, I could, but I have several loads like that. Mostly hallway (path) lights that I need a simple switch for at each end of the hall. And I had dimmers available in the WPMs, so I was trying to use them. The WPM is cheaper than the equivalent number of dimmers, even adding in the extra remotes.

I'm reworking the design that way now, but I'll check with tech support anyway.


----------



## spiwrx

FlyingDiver said:


> Cross-posted from forums.lutron.com:
> 
> I'm working up a design for a house, and am planning on using LQRJ-WPM-6P modules for most if not all of the dimmable loads. As I was adding devices (Inclusive SW), I attempted to attach an RD-RD to one of the loads on an WPM. Could not figure out how to do it. Is that not possible? If I need switch locations for WPM loads I have to use a keypad of some kind? That's kinda annoying where I only need one control...


The WPM can only be controlled via a keypad if you need that type of functionality over multiple loads.

Looks like you can trigger a scene with a momentary button if that gets you anywhere (see page 4, SSA connection) 
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/043-098A - WPM.pdf

"_Default Scene Operation_
_Pressing the Default Scene Button will toggle the module_
_between the Default Scene and OFF. An NTGRX-1S or_
_a momentary switch may be connected to the SSA termi-_
_nal on the module to perform the same function as the_
_Default Scene Button (See SSA Wiring Diagram). To_
_program the Default Scene, use the _
_HomeWorks_
_Utility_"


----------



## FlyingDiver

Thanks Paul. I also got a response from the RRA2 Level 2 training instructor, confirming that it can't be used with an RD-RD. Must be some technical limitation with the RD-RD, as it seems like an obvious usage. So I'm redoing my design to eliminate one of the WPM modules and placing 6CL units instead.


----------



## FlyingDiver

*Ceiling Fans that work well with 2ANF*

Can anyone recommend a brand/model of fan that works well with the 2NF? Must be high quality, quiet, and contemporary design. Just about everything out there seems to come with it's own wireless remote and receiver built into the motor.


----------



## Swancoat

A lot of them actually just have a little canopy module that the remote controls that you can just choose not to install.


----------



## Neurorad

FlyingDiver said:


> Can anyone recommend a brand/model of fan that works well with the 2NF? Must be high quality, quiet, and contemporary design. Just about everything out there seems to come with it's own wireless remote and receiver built into the motor.


I went through this hassle about a year ago, spent a couple dozen hours searching online.

Not many contemporary fans out there that fit the bill. Kichler and Quorum might be names to research, IIRC.

There are about 4-5 major fan distributors online, with decent websites, some of them let you search by 'pull chain', for control. Hansen Wholesale is one distributor, look for 'pull chain' left hand column.

http://www.hansenwholesale.com/ceilingfans/fansearch.asp?sbControl=Pull+Chain

Basically, you need a fan with a pull chain, if you haven't figured that out.

My search was complicated by looking for a larger size, and offering a quality light kit (higher output). Needless to say, the one I ended up with is a disappointment. I would like to replace it. If you find something, let me know. 

Edit - search of Contemporary Fans with pull chains, from Hansen

http://www.hansenwholesale.com/ceil...200&sbSortBy=BestFans&DetailMode=ON&showTop3=


----------



## FlyingDiver

Swancoat said:


> A lot of them actually just have a little canopy module that the remote controls that you can just choose not to install.


I've been looking at the installation manuals for the ones DW is interested in. Not many give any hope for a removable module. Many of the newer ones are DC, which pretty much rules them out totally.

If you have knowledge of specific brands with removable modules, please share.

Otherwise, it's looking like we're going to end up installing an 8S or 8ANS for simple On/Off and only use the remote for changing speeds. That's IF it actually goes back to it's last speed when power is restored.


----------



## notek

FlyingDiver said:


> If you have knowledge of specific brands with removable modules, please share.


http://www.lightingdirect.com/minka...ld-remote-control-and-blades-included/p293073

Remote control module was easy to remove, works great with 2ANF.


----------



## CSO

FlyingDiver said:


> Can anyone recommend a brand/model of fan that works well with the 2NF? Must be high quality, quiet, and contemporary design. Just about everything out there seems to come with it's own wireless remote and receiver built into the motor.


I'm using the 2NF with fans from Modern Fan Co. These are decent fans and definitely contemporary design.


----------



## schalliol

Some new engraved 4 button Picos here with Paul's help (spiwrx). I'm really happy these are now available!


----------



## spiwrx

If it wasn't obvious, I have a lot of admiration and respect for the Lutron company. The Lutron company is one of the larger privately held companies, a role model in the industry, taking care of it's employees and customers alike. I never met Joel myself, but some of my co-workers have and I have met with some of his family. All of which are good down to earth people. 

Lutrons founder, Joel Spira, passed away naturally the other day at the age of 88. At 88 he was still actively working in the company, most recently on their latest, home automation project. He's largely responsible for the modern light dimmer and several other control, automation and energy saving innovations. 

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/southernlehigh/mc-lutron-joel-spira-death-20150408-story.html#page=1


----------



## dragonian

What are Radio RA2 best practices for bathrooms?
I have a modest house all done up with Radio RA2.. (35 or so switches/ keypads, etc).. pretty much everything except for the bathrooms.

I'm having both bathrooms remodeled (gutted), and trying to figure out what to do for lighting control in there.
They are not very large baths.. so i'm wondering if it worth the cost for full lighting control.

I assume that it's handy to have a dedicated paddle for easy access, guests, etc (rather than a keypad)
The bathrooms will obviously have a exhast fan. Is it worth doing a keypad for delay options?
My guess is that I can probably handle all of the lights on one switch.

Should I just re-install the existing switches, and ignore lighting automation? I'm assuming bathrooms aren't part of a scene, other than All Off. 

Any other cool things people have come up with?


----------



## wkearney99

I'd dearly love Lutron to make a RA2 integrated count-down timer for fans. Alas, they don't. RA2 offers no 'simple' solution for bathroom fans. I opted for Lutron's count-down timer switches for those. They look the same as RA2 switches, so that's consistent. Their side switch instead of dimming has numbers. You adjust that time up/down as desired and it blinks amber as it counts down. Works great. They're totally independent, so there's no automation with RA2 (or anything else). 

I always suggest not using a keypad as the only on-wall device when there's the likelihood of guest usage. No sense tormenting them with figuring out a keypad when all they want is quick room lighting. This is ESPECIALLY true if you're not going to engrave the buttons right away. Which is something I suggest because you might not always know ahead of time exactly how you'll really end up using the buttons. 

As for all lights on one switch, I've found it's best to keep overhead and vanity lights on separate switches. There's plenty of situations where you want one but not the other. I keep the "best looking" lighting on the paddle closest to the door. This way guests will get the 'best impression' of the space when they turn the lights on. For powder room and guest bath this is the vanity light. For the master bath it's the main fixture in the center (but then we have a very large master bath).


----------



## trx250r87

wkearney99 said:


> I'd dearly love Lutron to make a RA2 integrated count-down timer for fans. Alas, they don't. RA2 offers no 'simple' solution for bathroom fans. I opted for Lutron's count-down timer switches for those. They look the same as RA2 switches, so that's consistent. Their side switch instead of dimming has numbers. You adjust that time up/down as desired and it blinks amber as it counts down. Works great. They're totally independent, so there's no automation with RA2 (or anything else).
> 
> I always suggest not using a keypad as the only on-wall device when there's the likelihood of guest usage. No sense tormenting them with figuring out a keypad when all they want is quick room lighting. This is ESPECIALLY true if you're not going to engrave the buttons right away. Which is something I suggest because you might not always know ahead of time exactly how you'll really end up using the buttons.
> 
> As for all lights on one switch, I've found it's best to keep overhead and vanity lights on separate switches. There's plenty of situations where you want one but not the other. I keep the "best looking" lighting on the paddle closest to the door. This way guests will get the 'best impression' of the space when they turn the lights on. For powder room and guest bath this is the vanity light. For the master bath it's the main fixture in the center (but then we have a very large master bath).


Keep in mind the countdown timer has orange LEDs while the regular switches and dimmers use green LEDs.

Eric


----------



## lleo_

There is a lot you can do in a bathroom, but for most conditional programming you will need a third party integration.
In a typical master bath you may have overhead and vanity lighting, plus another light in the shower stall.
You can do vacancy and occupancy sensors on timeclock to turn off and on lights to different levels at different time and lighting conditions.
If you add motorized shades, you can have them to close and open based on timeclock/sunset/sunrise conditions.
Additionally I have put towel warmers and bathroom fans on RA2 switches and turn them on/off from third-party systems.
If you include third-party integration, you can do things like close the shade if lights are turned on in the shower after sunset. Add a humidity sensor and you can turn on the bathroom fan based on humidity level.
My favorite is start flashing the shower light off after 15 minutes and turn it off a minute later.


----------



## wkearney99

trx250r87 said:


> Keep in mind the countdown timer has orange LEDs while the regular switches and dimmers use green LEDs.


Which I mentioned. Personally, I find it helpful that the timer uses amber lighting as it helps differentiate that the switch is doing something other than lighting. While keeping the (exact) same physical characteristics otherwise.

It is possible for the timer to be set 'on' and not count down. But a single tap on it will count down from the last-used value. So if it's set to 30 minutes (an ideal amount of time for most bathroom bath/shower steam issues) then it'll come back there the next time it's tapped. It's only by using the side rocker buttons that the time will get changed.


----------



## CSO

*Bathrooms*

Here is what I am doing in my ground floor bathrooms. This is a retrofit application. Each bathroom was originally fitted with a 3 gang switch box wired as 1st gang vanity light, 2nd gang ceiling light (integral to exhaust fan), and 3rd gang exhaust fan. The switches were replaced as follows: 1st gang RadioRA 2 seeTouch hybrid keypad 3-button spaced with raise/lower RRD‑H3BSRL; 2nd gang RRD-6CL; and 3rd gang MA-T51. The top button on the hybrid dimmer actuates the "normal" lights-on scene for the bathroom, the middle button actuates a night time scene (night light), and the bottom button turns lights off. The exhaust fan countdown timer is not part of the Radio Ra2 system and must be operated manually. However, aesthetically it matches. See the attached picture.


----------



## CSO

*Bathrooms B*

Here is a different application for a bathroom with new construction, which is not suitable for retrofits. The lighting loads for this bathroom are run to a 4 gang masonry box in an adjacent closet where a Grafik Eye controls the loads. In the bathroom is a 2 gang box at the door with a keypad for the Grafik Eye in one gang and a MA-T51 countdown timer in the other gang. Again operation of the exhaust fan is manual since the MA-T51 is not part of the Radio Ra2 or Grafik Eye system. This allows the four different lighting loads to be controlled with scenes while presenting only a 2 gang box to the user in the room. See pictures below.


----------



## dougpark714

*Triathlon Honeycomb fabric double sided?*

I'm trying to figure out if the Triathlon Honeycomb fabrics are double sided. I heard it depends but the Rio collection are double sided. But I got a Rio Truffle sample from Serenashades.com and the was fabric colored only on one side -- the other side was just white. Perhaps it's double sided for the Triathlon line? Does anyone know for certain? I really need both sides of the fabric to be the same color for one of the large windows.

Also, is the headrail in the Rio line made of aluminum (not plastic), painted to match the fabric? Thx.


----------



## notek

dougpark714 said:


> I'm trying to figure out if the Triathlon Honeycomb fabrics are double sided. I heard it depends but the Rio collection are double sided. But I got a Rio Truffle sample from Serenashades.com and the was fabric colored only on one side -- the other side was just white.


I think you misunderstood what dual-sided fabric means. Dual-sided means that front and back *are* different. See below the quote from FAQ.


What are “dual-sided” fabrics?

All of our insulating honeycomb shade fabrics and select roller shade fabrics are “dual-sided,” meaning
these materials have a white backing. With this, every room can have a signature look, while still
maintaining a uniform appearance on the outside of your home. A uniform appearance will help meet
certain building regulations, such as those put in place by some homeowners’ associations. The white
backing also helps reflect the sun’s rays, reducing HVAC costs and saving energy


----------



## dougpark714

Thx! So why is the Rio collection so much more than the Monaco collection? I thought it was because the fabric color was on both sides but it sounds like the fabric is the same except for color.


----------



## DMILANI

dougpark714 said:


> Thx! So why is the Rio collection so much more than the Monaco collection? I thought it was because the fabric color was on both sides but it sounds like the fabric is the same except for color.


It's more expensive because the colors are not part of the standard set that I assume they sell a lot more of. The head rail is also made of aluminum instead of vinyl. So the Rio collection is considered more high end and therefore they charge more.


----------



## notek

dougpark714 said:


> So why is the Rio collection so much more than the Monaco collection?


Different fabrics have different pricing. And Rio comes with aluminum head rail.

I checked and all honeycomb fabrics are dual sided. If you want fabric which has the same color on the front and back, you have two options: pick white color fabric, or switch to roller.

BTW, you can see characteristics of all available fabrics in the Lutron's "Lutron Fabrics" app. For Triathlon line, select "Essentials" collection.


----------



## 92396humphrey

QQQ said:


>  http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron_..._home_control/


Thank you for this!! It has really helped. Do you know is the Lutron RadioRA2 is able to integrate with the Crestron Prodigy system?


----------



## Drew_W

92396humphrey said:


> Thank you for this!! It has really helped. Do you know is the Lutron RadioRA2 is able to integrate with the Crestron Prodigy system?


No. Why did you buy an antique system, even before you had the software for it?! On the plus side, all the Prodigy gear is super cheap now and you can probably get Prodigy dimmers and switches instead. But no go with the Lutron.


----------



## MatteraDesignInc

FlyingDiver said:


> Cross-posted from forums.lutron.com:
> 
> I'm working up a design for a house, and am planning on using LQRJ-WPM-6P modules for most if not all of the dimmable loads. As I was adding devices (Inclusive SW), I attempted to attach an RD-RD to one of the loads on an WPM. Could not figure out how to do it. Is that not possible? If I need switch locations for WPM loads I have to use a keypad of some kind? That's kinda annoying where I only need one control...


I would call Lutron Support. They are 24/7 and very helpful!


----------



## spiwrx

MatteraDesignInc said:


> I would call Lutron Support. They are 24/7 and very helpful!


In case it hadn't been answered the WPM is essentially a stripped down Grafik Eye. You can only control via Keypads, Pico, or there is an obscure method to attach a switch to trigger scene 1. I may have already answered this a few posts/pages back....


----------



## FlyingDiver

That post was weeks old. I got the answer a long time ago....

Thanks anyway.


----------



## intake

The Home+ iOS software was officially updated to provide support for the Apple Watch. Moving from version 8.3.0 to 9.0.


----------



## intake

And . . . It's pretty basic. The way you need to set the app up for watch control is very counter intuitive. To setup the lights you want to control from the watch, you need to first add them in Settings on the iPhone, back where you can select multiple systems. I can't add Keypad buttons for scenes, presumably due to a bug in the software. It's there, I just can't select it. Only individual loads are working. Glances are supported on the watch, but it only lisst a summary of active loads. It would have been great if a single button could be assigned to, say, turn those loads off.

Notably, Lutron missed a great feature for the iPhone, notification center button support to activate lights are scenes, like the HUE software or HomeSense for Lutron.


----------



## user12345678

Is there a list of compatible ceiling fans? Is there any lighting load (within the load rating) that will not work with a phase adaptive dimmer?


----------



## spiwrx

shaun5 said:


> Is there a list of compatible ceiling fans? Is there any lighting load (within the load rating) that will not work with a phase adaptive dimmer?


From the instructions the 2ANF fan speed control should only be used with PSC type motors (Permanent Split Capacitor) Most traditional fans are PSC, but you'll have to get with the fan mnf. to determine this. _~ Some of the newer fans have been using a D.C. motor, typically with a proprietary control. These should be avoided if for use with the 2ANF or you can switch only on the 8ANS~ _

I haven't seen a case where something didn't work with an 6NA. You do still have some special circumstances where you may need a fluorescent dimmer for certain 3 wire dimming ballasts, and/or 0-10v dimming on some fluorescent and/or LED drivers. It may not always be the best dimmer for every application, but if we don't know the final load type we specify this dimmer.


----------



## user12345678

I asked Casablanca which of their fans would be compatible with a Lutron fan speed switch and received this answer:
_None are, you have to use our controls only, that applies to both Casablanca and Hunter.

Thank you._​
Casablanca also doesn't list if their AC fans have PSC motors. What brand ceiling fan has anyone used?


----------



## Neurorad

i suggest you search the Hansen fan distributor website. Search for fans with pull chains (search filter, IIRC). If you can't find one you like, call Hansen by phone and ask about models with PSC motors.

Paul, thanks for the tip on the PSC motors.


----------



## J_P_A

I'm getting ready to hook up a bug eye emitter to the back of one of my dimmers, and I need the IR codes to program my Harmony remote. I feel like I've seen this addressed before, but I can't find it at the moment. Can someone point me in the right direction?


----------



## Les Auber

Lurton used to have IR remote codes on their support site for everything they didn't consider proprietary. Don't know if they still do. 


Les


----------



## J_P_A

I believe this is the answer I've been looking for. Now I just have to figure out how to make my Harmony Ultimate remote transmit the IR code. Any takers on that one?

EDIT: Well, surprise surprise. Looks like the Harmony software has the six button keypad already in there. I'll have to set it up to see if the codes actually work. That certainly would make life a lot easier!


----------



## spiwrx

J_P_A said:


> I believe this is the answer I've been looking for. Now I just have to figure out how to make my Harmony Ultimate remote transmit the IR code. Any takers on that one?
> 
> EDIT: Well, surprise surprise. Looks like the Harmony software has the six button keypad already in there. I'll have to set it up to see if the codes actually work. That certainly would make life a lot easier!


Been mostly configuring phones and tablets lately, haven't done the IR in a while. I thought also, that some of the more popular remotes are more or less per-configured with Lutron .


----------



## spiwrx

Software 9.1 is available. I guess at 9.0 it is no longer backward s compatible. _(e.g. it will not recognize 9.0 in _


----------



## J_P_A

spiwrx said:


> Been mostly configuring phones and tablets lately, haven't done the IR in a while. I thought also, that some of the more popular remotes are more or less per-configured with Lutron .


I "finally" got around to hooking up an emitter and attaching it to the dimmer over the hole in the back. Unfortunately, no luck. I'm using a Harmony Ultimate. I tried with the bugeye connected to the hub and I also set the remote to output IR and tried aiming the remote into the hole on the back of the dimmer. Again, nothing. 

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?


----------



## Neurorad

I plan on using Harmony and IR in our current FR remodel, so I'm very interested in your progress.

Are you trying to use a dimmer or a keypad?


----------



## J_P_A

Keypad. It's in the harmony database, so it seems like it should work with little fuss. I'm not sure what the issue is.


----------



## mathenley

I've got a house with RA2 installed already. I took the BLAST training and got access to the software. Is it possible to extract my current database into the software? Or do I have to start over?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## FlyingDiver

You need the Inclusive version of the software to extract the database. For that, you need Blast Level 2. Or an understanding dealer.


----------



## Neurorad

J_P_A said:


> Keypad. It's in the harmony database, so it seems like it should work with little fuss. I'm not sure what the issue is.


Anything else being controlled with the IR Harmony emitters? Maybe an emitter issue?
Edit - or Harmony issue?


----------



## J_P_A

PJ and AVR are both IR. they work fine. I've also tried holding the Harmony hub over the hole in the back of the keypad, but still no luck. 

One interesting thing I noticed is the harmony software shows the keypad as having seven buttons (buttons 0-6) plus raise and lower. It's a six button keypad with raise lower. It seems like I remember reading something about this, but I can't remember what.


----------



## spiwrx

J_P_A said:


> PJ and AVR are both IR. they work fine. I've also tried holding the Harmony hub over the hole in the back of the keypad, but still no luck.
> 
> One interesting thing I noticed is the harmony software shows the keypad as having seven buttons (buttons 0-6) plus raise and lower. It's a six button keypad with raise lower. It seems like I remember reading something about this, but I can't remember what.


Sorry, I don't have time this morning to look it up but does the Harmony use the phantom buttons in the main repeater? You may have to look that direction to get it going...

Not sure if you've seen this already and I'm not sure the info you need is here(link below), but RR2 starts on Page 31. See what commands your remote is sending, I'm guessing you need to add some device info to your remote, or use the phantom buttons and set up a couple of those _(pull up the main repeater as a keypad in "programming" to set up phantom buttons 1-100) 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/040249.pdf_


----------



## J_P_A

I don't know. I'll check into it and report back! Thanks for the tip!


----------



## 350zbachelor

*Update help*

Looking to get my RadioRa2 system updated. I have the old Lutron software (5.6) and need to get my system updated to the latest version. If someone can send me program I can do it on my own. Or if someone in the Toronto area wants to assist, send me a PM.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## J_P_A

spiwrx said:


> Sorry, I don't have time this morning to look it up but does the Harmony use the phantom buttons in the main repeater? You may have to look that direction to get it going...
> 
> Not sure if you've seen this already and I'm not sure the info you need is here(link below), but RR2 starts on Page 31. See what commands your remote is sending, I'm guessing you need to add some device info to your remote, or use the phantom buttons and set up a couple of those _(pull up the main repeater as a keypad in "programming" to set up phantom buttons 1-100)
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/040249.pdf_



I ended up talking to Lutron and they said it should be as simple as hooking up a bugeye and selecting the device in the Logitech Software. I went back and double checked my wiring and verified that my bugeye was in fact outputting (Lutron told me you can use the selfie mode of my iPhone camera for that). All looked good on that end, so on a whim I decided to change my keypad to the five button IR model and voila! Works just fine now, though I am down one button. I've only got six presets to choose from, but that's better than what I had before. 

Anyone know how to report a problem like this to Logitech?


----------



## spiwrx

350zbachelor said:


> Looking to get my RadioRa2 system updated. I have the old Lutron software (5.6) and need to get my system updated to the latest version. If someone can send me program I can do it on my own. Or if someone in the Toronto area wants to assist, send me a PM.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


The software is free, You can get the software yourself now, just go to Lutron's website. You have to do some online training to qualify. 

If you don't have an original copy of you .lutx job file you'll likely have to start from scratch and factory default/reset everything. 

If you have a job file from your 5.6, I keep older version of the software, send me your file I should be able to update for you...


----------



## dragonian

Has anyone used a hybrid keypad/dimmer with LED loads? I will use the neutral.
I'm specifically looking to run a Cree CR6 which are pretty friendly, but I haven't tried on a hybrid keypad.

I see the specs are for a min load of 15W incandescent, which I know doesn't directly map to LED . A single CR6 is 10.5 W. Any chance I can get away with 1 light? or do I need to get creative with where to put a 2nd light?


----------



## spiwrx

dragonian said:


> Has anyone used a hybrid keypad/dimmer with LED loads? I will use the neutral.
> I'm specifically looking to run a Cree CR6 which are pretty friendly, but I haven't tried on a hybrid keypad.
> 
> I see the specs are for a min load of 15W incandescent, which I know doesn't directly map to LED . A single CR6 is 10.5 W. Any chance I can get away with 1 light? or do I need to get creative with where to put a 2nd light?


I would avoid it, but I haven't had much trouble on Hybrid with LED, the low min. wattage is what really concerns me. I have one in my own home working flawlessly on 2x Cooper/Halo 11w 4" LED.


----------



## Neurorad

Anyone dimming LED strip lights, with RA2? Looking for manufacturer/model recs. 

Lutron Lumaris would be perfect - except the price is somewhat of an obstacle, for me. CRI 95.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/LightingFixtures/LutronFixtures/Lumaris/Overview.aspx

The rest of our under-cabinet kitchen lights are switched, with RA2. I guess that's a fall-back option. This set of cabinets is in the sitting area of the kitchen, somewhat removed from the rest of the counters, so a close match to the other lights in 'light quality' isn't important, i.e. if the color temp is a little different from the others, not a big issue.


----------



## trx250r87

Neurorad said:


> Anyone dimming LED strip lights, with RA2? Looking for manufacturer/model recs.
> 
> Lutron Lumaris would be perfect - except the price is somewhat of an obstacle, for me. CRI 95.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/LightingFixtures/LutronFixtures/Lumaris/Overview.aspx
> 
> The rest of our under-cabinet kitchen lights are switched, with RA2. I guess that's a fall-back option. This set of cabinets is in the sitting area of the kitchen, somewhat removed from the rest of the counters, so a close match to the other lights in 'light quality' isn't important, i.e. if the color temp is a little different from the others, not a big issue.


I'm using a Pico to control an RR-3PD that is plugged in above microwave/range combo. This is connected to a 12VDC 48W LED driver which drives about 20' of Armacost Ribbon Flex Pro 3000k lighting. It works pretty well but sometimes flickers a little when dimmed all the way down.

Eric


----------



## spiwrx

trx250r87 said:


> I'm using a Pico to control an RR-3PD that is plugged in above microwave/range combo. This is connected to a 12VDC 48W LED driver which drives about 20' of Armacost Ribbon Flex Pro 3000k lighting. It works pretty well but sometimes flickers a little when dimmed all the way down.
> 
> Eric


This is typical for this type of product, you can try different dimmers and you may get a little better range but I would just recommend setting the low end trim just above the level it flickers and call it a day. You didn't say what driver you are using, but without switching to a really high end driver most result will remain the same, and even then you may not get much improvement.


----------



## spiwrx

FWIW, I don't want to say this is a common problem yet but we've been having some reports of devices dropping when updating to the newest version of the software(9.1). Unless you need to I may wait for the next version. For most of you the only real reason to update may be for the Apple Watch support. 

What we're seeing is previously activated, programmed and working devices show up as un-activated after you update and transfer any new programming. 

Please do not delete the device and re-add it or you will have to assign it to any keypads or timed events again. 

If something does drop simply default the device(s) (manually) and re-activate and transfer. 

Default for most devices is triple tap and hold on third tap until it flashes, triple tap again (no hold) release and should be good to re-activate. 

This isn't a universal problem but we've heard come up a few times with the latest update. 

Device Specific default procedure can be found here:
http://resi.lutron.com/Portals/4/Product/AppNotes/Returning%20Clear%20Connect%20RF%20Devices%20to%20Factory%20Default.pdf


----------



## user12345678

I stripped my Casablanca fan down to the motor. Control board, inteli-touch wall switch, sensors, and light kit (added cans to the room): all in the trash (after I scavenged the starting capacitor from the control board). I then direct wired the motor / capacitor as a true PSC motor to the Lutron switch. Everything is working as it should, but on 75% (3rd speed) there is a slight hum from the switch. 

Has anyone else had a similar experience? A couple of my incandescent cans hum slightly at low levels and I think I have one other switch that has a slight hum...


----------



## spiwrx

shaun5 said:


> I stripped my Casablanca fan down to the motor. Control board, inteli-touch wall switch, sensors, and light kit (added cans to the room): all in the trash (after I scavenged the starting capacitor from the control board). I then direct wired the motor / capacitor as a true PSC motor to the Lutron switch. Everything is working as it should, but on 75% (3rd speed) there is a slight hum from the switch.
> 
> Has anyone else had a similar experience? A couple of my incandescent cans hum slightly at low levels and I think I have one other switch that has a slight hum...


Depending on the intensity I think this is "normal". Also some people are audibly more sensitive to this. If it's very loud I would try to do something about it. If you have someway to check heat or current (motor) I would check to see these are not elevated to make sure it's safe. 

Lights can do that to, especially MLV (MR16). Cheap incandescent lamps are prone to this as well. Even some LED, if you have the joy of a certain generation/version Halo 4" LED as I do you know what I'm talking about.


----------



## spiwrx

9.2 Software is now available 

This maybe more for installers and programmers of multiple systems. But it came up a few times last week that they returned to an old job to update or add and they could not directly upgrade the job file to current version because it was so old. It's helpful to write the version number as part of the file name when saving the job file. Otherwise you have to guess and open in multiple versions, until it will accept or ask to upgrade. And unless you've updated all you jobs keep your old versions of the software. 

Secondly, it's not important to update if you are having no problems. But I would try to stay within 1 version. _(e.g. If you are on 7.x wait until 8.x if you want but once you get to 9 you likely will not be able to directly update.) 

_If you are on something previous to 7, I would recommend updating as you cannot extract versions previous to 7. _(also you cannot extract without inclusive software, so keep a copy of your file in a safe place)_

Lastly, if you are an APP user, please occasionally update your changes ("Sync homeowner edits"(?)) and save them to your stored job file.


----------



## spiwrx

For anyone that is using a 3rd party VPN, any recommendations on providers?


----------



## FlyingDiver

spiwrx said:


> For anyone that is using a 3rd party VPN, any recommendations on providers?


I use StongVPN.com, which is part of ReliableHosting.com. Very reliable, but I really can't comment on pricing vs other providers. I only use it occasionally, mostly when we're traveling.


----------



## FlyingDiver

*Low Voltage light control*

Electricians are starting the rough-in on our new house, and we've still got a couple outstanding Lutron issues to resolve.

Most of the house is using Wallbox Power Modules (6‐zone triac) with some RRD‐6CL modules in places where I needed an individual switch anyway. Most lights are recessed cans with TCP BR30 LED lights. 

The area we're still not set on is a few low voltage lights. The electrician is recommending the Halo H1499TAT low voltage housing for the recessed spots (mostly art lights). We also have a location that's going to require low voltage puck lights. For those he's recommending the EuroFase #0087 ELV transformer. I'm not sure what specific puck light he wants to use.

Any experience or recommendations for these lights, especially since we're already committed to the WPM modules for some of those zones. Is there a Lutron driver I should be getting to go between the WPM and the transformer? And for the one location that will use the LV recessed light on a stand-alone switch, which dimmer should I use if not the RRD-6CL?

Thanks!

joe


----------



## FlyingDiver

Bump. Any input on the low voltage light control?


----------



## Neurorad

I would call Spiwrx for a rec. He sells them too.


----------



## rapamatic

Neurorad said:


> I would call Spiwrx for a rec. He sells them too.



I second that. He won't lead you wrong.


----------



## FlyingDiver

I didn't want to bug him direct, since the electricians are installing this round of equipment and they're not buying from him. I was hoping he'd just pop in here and chime in. He usually does.


----------



## Neurorad

My electricians haven't had any interest in selling me hardware. They have all [over]charged me by the hour.

Ask them if you can supply hardware, and ask Paul for details on installation before they show up.

Today, last minute, Paul provided me with important details on drivers and wiring, while the electrician was on site.

Thanks again, Paul. I wish I had the LED drivers in hand, before the electrician showed up to prewire. He had no experience with Lutron Hi-lume. Next time, I will know better.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Neurorad said:


> My electricians haven't had any interest in selling me hardware. They have all [over]charged me by the hour.
> 
> Ask them if you can supply hardware, and ask Paul for details on installation before they show up.


This is a new home build with electricians contracted to the GC. I have very limited control over what they get from where. The only things I can provide directly (at this point) are items they do not have a distributor for. Not what I would have preferred, but I nothing I could change.

joe


----------



## Neurorad

You might want to call Lutron Tech Support or Sales, directly.

If the electrician is installing RA2, shouldn't he be on the hook for making sure everything works, that he specs? You're paying the retail price, not wholesale. That 'added value' provided by the installer is the reason you are paying MSRP. If he doesn't know, he should ask his Lutron supplier/distributor. Maybe he could tell you which distributor he uses, and you could ask.

Lutron forums might be a good place to post - Lutron employees answer questions there pretty well.

https://forums.lutron.com/forumdisplay.php/32-RadioRA-2


----------



## FlyingDiver

Spiwrx answered me directly, so I'm good. I was just looking for confirmation on the electrician's recommendations here. I'm not sure why people are trying to beat up on them about this.


----------



## wkearney99

My electrician was unclear on how to install a RA2 dimmer and accessory switches on a 4-way lighting circuit (outside spot lights involving 3 entry door locations and the dimmer in the master bedroom). The Lutron phone tech was VERY helpful and understood exactly what the electrician was unclear about. The tech used terminology the electrician understood and they got the circuit wired very quickly. So if you run into a situation the installer doesn't understand don't hesitate to call Lutron's support line.


----------



## CSO

I updated my Essentials from 9.1 to 9.2, and it has been a challenge to say the least. There was a firmware update with this too. My programming is broken, and I cannot get my main repeater to accept the converted .ra2 file.


----------



## schalliol

As far as I know, there's no systematic issue with 9.2. You should be able to just factory default it and then drop 9.2 on there and move forward. Why do you think you might need to reset all your devices?


----------



## CSO

schalliol said:


> As far as I know, there's no systematic issue with 9.2. You should be able to just factory default it and then drop 9.2 on there and move forward. Why do you think you might need to reset all your devices?


Agreed, it should be that easy. I was contemplating resetting my devices, because nothing was working. However, after a session with Lutron's technical support, we've identified that the main repeater may not be updating properly with the latest firmware file. This may be a hardware issue where the repeater is not properly writing the file to its memory. Lutron is sending out a new repeater.


----------



## CSO

CSO said:


> Agreed, it should be that easy. I was contemplating resetting my devices, because nothing was working. However, after a session with Lutron's technical support, we've identified that the main repeater may not be updating properly with the latest firmware file. This may be a hardware issue where the repeater is not properly writing the file to its memory. Lutron is sending out a new repeater.


Problem solved, but not without more effort. After no-show of a replacement repeater from Lutron, I phoned their tech support again to find out that the first tech didn't actually place an order for a replacement main repeater. The second tech apologized and got a new repeater to me. I installed the replacement repeater today, updated its firmware, and transferred my files to it without incident. So far everything seems to be working fine. I never would have guessed a bad eprom (or similar) in the main repeater that wouldn't take the updated firmware as the culprit for my troubles. Apparently this is a small, but known issue. Users with similar date code main repeaters may contact Lutron for replacement. Incidentally I am using Windows 10 with Lutron Essentials 9.2 without trouble.


----------



## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> My electrician was unclear on how to install a RA2 dimmer and accessory switches on a 4-way lighting circuit (outside spot lights involving 3 entry door locations and the dimmer in the master bedroom). The Lutron phone tech was VERY helpful and understood exactly what the electrician was unclear about. The tech used terminology the electrician understood and they got the circuit wired very quickly. So if you run into a situation the installer doesn't understand don't hesitate to call Lutron's support line.


4-Ways can be tricky and a bit different from traditional when using the Lutron Maestro or Radio Ra type dimmers with companions. But the diagram is very clear in the box. Occasionally it's hard to trace the travelers but often just reversing them clears up any problems. 

Here's the kicker (reminder), any Lutron main dimmer or switch with a Neutral connection has to be on the load bearing side of the multi-location (3&4 way) circuits, as opposed the line (power feeding) side. If you have a simple 2-wire dimmer the main can be on the line or load side but not in the middle (4-way). And by all this we are talking about the wiring points which may not correspond to physical switch locations. 

One last thing to think about, the 3 & 4 way locations are typically great places to use a keypad or pico, especially if you cannot get the main dimmer in the location you want it.


----------



## spiwrx

CSO said:


> I updated my Essentials from 9.1 to 9.2, and it has been a challenge to say the least. There was a firmware update with this too. My programming is broken, and I cannot get my main repeater to accept the converted .ra2 file.


Sorry to hear that. I just recently went from 9.1 to 9.2 and it dropped a couple of the latest devices I had added in 9.1, I simply had to default them and add them back in. _(absolutely, could have been my fault, that I forgot to save changes in a previous session)

_Other than that I haven't heard of any problems other than normal connection issues or hang-ups in transfer.


----------



## spiwrx

FlyingDiver said:


> Electricians are starting the rough-in on our new house, and we've still got a couple outstanding Lutron issues to resolve.
> 
> Most of the house is using Wallbox Power Modules (6‐zone triac) with some RRD‐6CL modules in places where I needed an individual switch anyway. Most lights are recessed cans with TCP BR30 LED lights.
> 
> The area we're still not set on is a few low voltage lights. The electrician is recommending the Halo H1499TAT low voltage housing for the recessed spots (mostly art lights). We also have a location that's going to require low voltage puck lights. For those he's recommending the EuroFase #0087 ELV transformer. I'm not sure what specific puck light he wants to use.
> 
> Any experience or recommendations for these lights, especially since we're already committed to the WPM modules for some of those zones. Is there a Lutron driver I should be getting to go between the WPM and the transformer? And for the one location that will use the LV recessed light on a stand-alone switch, which dimmer should I use if not the RRD-6CL?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> joe


I think I answered Flying Diver directly but for the rest of you, the WPM is a nice piece if it fits all the loads types to fill it and assuming you are looking for something to hide away and operate from a keypad, PICO or APP. It does not do ELV, and you will need in interface if your LED required that, immediately making it more expensive than individual dimmers. Also, you need inclusive to program it. 

In regards to his ELV Eurofase, some of the ELV transformers, if stated, will work from regular dimmers, but if it says ELV then plan for ELV dimmers (6NA). Also don't forget about your minimum loads requirements on RR2 and other smart dimmers. To add to some of our more recent problems with using the 6NA as a band-aid covering all load types, please lock in the dimming type if you know it and do not leave it on Auto. It seems this can in some cases cause problems that may not surface initially. 

If you are looking to hide away dimmers and use keypads, great. That makes things look a lot nicer, programming and labeling it well will add to it and make it functionally easier to use as well. I would still recommend you use individual dimmers unless you've done all your homework and nothings ever going to change. You just have a lot more options if a special load requirement comes up. 

RR2 and all dimming related: I just wanted to make another statement about Dimming and LED's because I run into this problem everyday, several times a day. Please read beyond the title. Almost all manufacturers have something now called an LED dimmer, C-L, C.L, whatever you want to call it... Unfortunately we are still in the middle of developing technology and you have to do you homework. Just because it says in LED rated doesn't mean it will work on all LED. Look for recommended dimmers from Lutron or your lighting manufacturer. You are still controlling magnetic transformers (MLV), Electronic transformers (ELV and standard Dimmers) 0-10V and now we have driver-less LED, which is a misnomer, in some cases, and so far requiring ELV most of the time. 

So we have dimmer manufactures trying to make universal products to control all these different types, we have LED manufacturers trying to make things cheaper and smaller, and changing all the time. Its very confusing for all of us. My better electricians now keep truck stock on these different dimmer types for when they run into the problem they have something to test or check with. 

As the old adage goes: "you get what you pay for" be very wary of ultra low priced LED's... Often you'll pay more for a special dimmer to control them to end up getting very limited range.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Thanks again, Paul. In my case, I think the WPM should handle the MLV loads OK (at least, from what I can tell from the Lutron docs). The one ELV load I had wired to a separate switch location (co-located with the WPMs) so I can put whatever dimmer type I need there. As it turns out, I had loads for all the WLM circuits in that location without the ELV load, so I didn't waste any. 

I think we ended up with 33 or 34 load circuits in the house on Lutron dimmers for the initial install. I have 20+ circuits on conventional switches that I'll convert to Lutron after we move in.


----------



## bpfunk

In addition to some new LED friendly hybrid keypad offerings, seeing the Lutron Connect Bridge and software showing up under radiora2 on the Lutron website. Do we think the caseta-like software and bridge coming to radiora 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## schalliol

Where do you see the bridge under RR2? I looked and didn't see it there.


----------



## dgage

Top right of picture. 

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeHomeSystems/RadioRA2/Components.aspx


----------



## FlyingDiver

I got a CEDIA promo email from Lutron today with the following:



> Introducing Lutron Connect Bridge
> Geofencing, HomeGlance dashboard, Widget support, and more for Caséta® Wireless, RadioRA® 2 and HomeWorks® QS.


----------



## jautor

FlyingDiver said:


> I got a CEDIA promo email from Lutron today with the following:
> 
> Introducing Lutron Connect Bridge
> Geofencing, HomeGlance dashboard, Widget support, and more for Caséta® Wireless, RadioRA® 2 and HomeWorks® QS.



Yep, this was announced at CEDIA. Should arrive for RadioRA2 in February. I believe MSRP was $300. New version of the app will come at that time, which also gets rid of the yearly fee for remote access.

I was all set to rant at the Lutron folks for not having all the integration / partner support for RA2 that they were doing for Caseta, and there it was! 

Jeff


----------



## bpfunk

Do we think any shot Serena shades will be compatible with radiora? Kinda been hoping...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## schalliol

This is awesome. Thanks for the heads-up!


----------



## Les Auber

Any word as to which software version will be needed for the Lutron Connect Bridge?


Les


----------



## jautor

FlyingDiver said:


> I got a CEDIA promo email from Lutron today with the following:





Les Auber said:


> Any word as to which software version will be needed for the Lutron Connect Bridge?


Version 10, which will come out in February with the Connect Bridge.

EDIT: You probably meant which 'version' as in Essential vs. Inclusive - I don't know, but there's no mention of any restriction in the published materials from Lutron so far - and everything just says "version 10 of the software and app". No footnote or even mention of the distinct levels in the application.


----------



## Neurorad

FlyingDiver said:


> I got a CEDIA promo email from Lutron today with the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing Lutron Connect Bridge
> Geofencing, HomeGlance dashboard, Widget support, and more for Cas?ta:registered: Wireless, RadioRA:registered: 2 and HomeWorks:registered: QS.
Click to expand...

Link? You L2 certified? I didn't get that email.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Neurorad said:


> Link? You L2 certified? I didn't get that email.


No link, it was just text in the email.

Yes, I'm L2 certified. Went to the training class in Plantation FL last spring. Had to do L2 to get Inclusive for my new house build. I'm going to be well over 100 devices when we're done.


----------



## Neurorad

Looks like that Bridge integration is falling along the Pro side of the RA2 capability, which is kind of odd. Caseta Bridge integration is seemless, but RA2 requires L2?

Pretty steep price for consumer, L1 Bridge integration. L2 ($600), plus the Bridge hardware.


----------



## jautor

Neurorad said:


> Looks like that Bridge integration is falling along the Pro side of the RA2 capability, which is kind of odd. Caseta Bridge integration is seemless, but RA2 requires L2?
> 
> Pretty steep price for consumer, L1 Bridge integration. L2 ($600), plus the Bridge hardware.


I got the email, too, and I'm just Essential (assume that's L1). I didn't ask that question at the show, but will now... Restricting the use of one of the key components is not something they've done in the past (merely the scope of the projects), so I'd assume Lutron is not going to make a huge mistake now after "fixing" the discrepancy between the product families. 

I don't see any mention of Essential vs. Inclusive in any of the materials so far - the screen shot in the CEDIA brochure is from Inclusive but that's just a screen shot - one would expect a note about that if that was the case.


----------



## Les Auber

Same here. Got the email but only L1. Wondering if the bridge etc is limited to L2, Inclusive, or can be set up with Essentials. There are (or were) a few hardware bits beyond a second main repeater that required Inclusive to set up so there could be precedent. 


Les


----------



## rapamatic

Les Auber said:


> Same here. Got the email but only L1. Wondering if the bridge etc is limited to L2, Inclusive, or can be set up with Essentials. There are (or were) a few hardware bits beyond a second main repeater that required Inclusive to set up so there could be precedent.
> 
> 
> Les


More details here in the press release http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron..._convenience_of_connected_home_with_mo/lutron

I would be shocked if this was L2 only, and no mention of that in press release


----------



## bpfunk

Quick question. I have a bunch or h6brl keypads I need to get engraved. Do I have the option of switching to a different button setup with the engraving certificate or am I stuck with 6 and raise/lower? Thanks for the help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rapamatic

bpfunk said:


> Quick question. I have a bunch or h6brl keypads I need to get engraved. Do I have the option of switching to a different button setup with the engraving certificate or am I stuck with 6 and raise/lower? Thanks for the help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



You can switch to any button configuration when you order a new set of engraved buttons.


----------



## spiwrx

Wow, you guys all got the announcement before me. Well it seems to happen that way often anyway....

Lets not jump to conclusions on the bridge requiring L2, I really doubt it. However the Grafik T and Palladiom stuff _[edited ,QS only] _we already know requires L2. 

If you didn't see the CEDIA announcement here is their literature on it. I'm afraid I'm unlikely to have more details until they start shipping.

Let me also stem any questions on the USB receptacle, as it's only in their Architectural series, Matte finishes only (no satin or glossy yet).


----------



## jautor

rapamatic said:


> You can switch to any button configuration when you order a new set of engraved buttons.


And switch colors, too! (I've used this method to buy "leftover" keypads from folks - don't care what the color or configuration is as long as the engraving cert is included).


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> However the Grafik T and Palladiom stuff we already know requires L2.


Did not know that - I guess that prevents me from spending money on things I really didn't need anyway!


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> Did not know that - I guess that prevents me from spending money on things I really didn't need anyway!


If you're only L1, you won't be able to pull these items up in your software, that's the only sure fire way to tell, I haven't seen any list or chart and I've asked. Of course some of these won't be added until v10.0 but some of the Grafik T an Palladiom has been out for a while (also the popular WPM is L2). 

I just put my first shade in my own home, and I was surprised both that it hadn't come up, but also that I couldn't use their daylight sensor in RR2. Also for some reason I can't wrap my head around their using 0%-100% to describe the shade position. I know because I have to, but my intuition wants this to be opposite....


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> Did not know that - I guess that prevents me from spending money on things I really didn't need anyway!


I know, but when that Grafik T Keypad comes out I'm going to have to re-consider a few things, I love the way those look especially in 2 & 3 gang.


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> However the Grafik T and Palladiom stuff we already know requires L2.


I thought Palladiom was QS only... is it available at RR2 L2? That would give me a pretty big motivation to try to get L2 certification....


----------



## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> I thought Palladiom was QS only... is it available at RR2 L2? That would give me a pretty big motivation to try to get L2 certification....


I stand corrected, you are right. Palladiom, at least for now, is HWQS (homeworks) only.


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> Also for some reason I can't wrap my head around their using 0%-100% to describe the shade position. I know because I have to, but my intuition wants this to be opposite....


Should be the same as a dimmer, right? 100% = the most light (open), correct?


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> Should be the same as a dimmer, right? 100% = the most light (open), correct?


Yes, I should have stated that. Based on the amount of light entering, & not blocking/filtering.


----------



## Les Auber

rapamatic said:


> More details here in the press release http://www.cepro.com/article/lutron..._convenience_of_connected_home_with_mo/lutron
> 
> I would be shocked if this was L2 only, and no mention of that in press release


Thanks. Guess we'll know in a few months.


----------



## schalliol

Re: Connect, where do you see $600 for integration? That's obviously a half the price tag, and it's hard to imagine Lutron charging this much on top of the $300 pricing for the Connect bridge. After all, most of what's been added here is already available in the much cheaper Caseta Wireless


----------



## jautor

schalliol said:


> Re: Connect, where do you see $600 for integration? That's obviously a half the price tag, and it's hard to imagine Lutron charging this much on top of the $300 pricing for the Connect bridge. After all, most of what's been added here is already available in the much cheaper Caseta Wireless


They're talking about the costs to get Lutron L2 certification, *IF* the Connect Bridge requires the Inclusive software for programming, which really doesn't seem likely (and there's no mention of such a significant requirement in the press materials released so far).

But if they did that stupidity, it would cost us L1 folks a total of $900 to get the Connect functionality ($300 for the Bridge and $600 for the L2 certification training course).


----------



## schalliol

That would be silly indeed.


----------



## rapamatic

schalliol said:


> That would be silly indeed.


Here is Lutron's official response, from their forums:



> The Connect Bridge for Radio Ra2 will be available in Essentials and Inclusive. The Home Control+ app will still be able to be used for those that prefer the layout. Remote Access for this app will remain $59.99/ year but the new app that works with the Connect Bridge will have free remote access.


----------



## Neurorad

Woot, that's some good news. Thanks.


----------



## kokan

This question is about TouchPro and RadioRa2. Home has let's say, ten zones. Each zone has its own TouchPro. Can RadioRa2 be used to turn on or off all ten TouchPros at the same time? Guests won't have access to IPhone/IPad application so I hope there is a RadioRa2 keypad that can be used for it. Is it possible, what Radiora2 keypad will work, and is there any other Radiora2 equipment necessary to achieve it? Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

In what scenario would you have 10 zones like this and need guest remote control over them?


----------



## kokan

wkearney99 said:


> In what scenario would you have 10 zones like this and need guest remote control over them?


so you don't know the answer.. looks like keypad can assign single button to change temperature of all thermostats at the same time but cannot turn it ON or OFF, which sucks. to answer your question, when guests are leaving the house so they can turn it off for the whole house or when they just arrive they will want to turn it all on. thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

You're going to get nowhere being rude. I asked because your scenario is better suited, perhaps, using the away mode.

But, nevermind.


----------



## kokan

wkearney99 said:


> You're going to get nowhere being rude. I asked because your scenario is better suited, perhaps, using the away mode.
> 
> But, nevermind.


 not rude, tried to be funny but looks like it didn't work. I'll give it a try with away mode, sounds like a that could be the solution as there is no way to turn it on or off. thanks, appreciate your help.


----------



## spiwrx

kokan said:


> This question is about TouchPro and RadioRa2. Home has let's say, ten zones. Each zone has its own TouchPro. Can RadioRa2 be used to turn on or off all ten TouchPros at the same time? Guests won't have access to IPhone/IPad application so I hope there is a RadioRa2 keypad that can be used for it. Is it possible, what Radiora2 keypad will work, and is there any other Radiora2 equipment necessary to achieve it? Thanks!


Not sure what the real question is but each TouchPro can be controlled independently like most Thermostats, so guests can just operate them directly. If they are remotely mounted, I'd suggest other equipment. You zoned the system so you could have zone control, so why do we want them all to come on/off? 

All you can really do from any RR2 keypad is set up a couple scenes perhaps to set all TouchPros to pre-determined levels. And maybe you set those to extremes so they are effectively on or off. 

There are preset Scenes on the TouchPros for "Wake", "Away", "Home", & "Sleep". I'd suggest incorporating those also. 

On top of that you can integrate some timeclock events. If this is a rental or similar with frequent turnover you may want a regular time clock event to effectively re-set to a certain scene or temperature for each or all in case they are left on by the occupant. Perhaps every afternoon or evening return to a certain temperature.


----------



## kokan

spiwrx said:


> Not sure what the real question is .


I am trying to figure out how to turn ON or OFF all ten TouchPros at the same time using RadioRa2. Thanks.


----------



## spiwrx

kokan said:


> I am trying to figure out how to turn ON or OFF all ten TouchPros at the same time using RadioRa2. Thanks.


You can only turn them on/off directly on the unit. From a keypad you can only bring it to a pre-defined temperature for Heating/Cooling. 

I would use the example I suggested to turn them on and off. Bring them to a temperature so extreme they won't realistically get there for that environment. If you need to permanently shut something off, use a plug in appliance module (for the HVAC controls only) or interrupt the thermostats with VCRX.


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## wkearney99

That and with 10 zones you're very likely going to exceed the number of devices supported by RA2. 100 per main repeater, two per site. 

If you want conditionals and a lot of devices then you're into the Homeworks QS territory. It's well worth considering if you're anywhere near close to RA2 limits. 

That and HVAC systems don't typically benefit from guests flipping them on/off. Steady temps are generally much more energy efficient. There's a lot of variables to consider, but without knowing any details it'd be hard to estimate.


----------



## kokan

spiwrx said:


> You can only turn them on/off directly on the unit. From a keypad you can only bring it to a pre-defined temperature for Heating/Cooling.
> 
> I would use the example I suggested to turn them on and off. Bring them to a temperature so extreme they won't realistically get there for that environment. If you need to permanently shut something off, use a plug in appliance module (for the HVAC controls only) or interrupt the thermostats with VCRX.


Looks like that are all options we have. Thanks for your help!


----------



## kokan

wkearney99 said:


> That and with 10 zones you're very likely going to exceed the number of devices supported by RA2.
> .


 I wish...shades and audio/video are given to another company so this ten Touchpros and the main repeater are the only things we will do. Thanks.


----------



## wkearney99

kokan said:


> I am trying to figure out how to turn ON or OFF all ten TouchPros at the same time using RadioRa2. Thanks.


The larger question is WHY? 

There's an old saying "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." The same applies to questions about potentially complicated configurations. At some point when someone asks something vague, like your initial question, it often means they've got a nail and want to know how to use their wrench to hammer it. 

Asking how to turn HVAC systems "OFF" is one such question. You don't really ever turn them "OFF". You typically adjust their temperature to a setpoint that provides a standby condition. As in, resetting the heat to a colder temperature when folks are away. Or likewise setting cooling to a higher temp. Bearing in mind that you have to know whether or not your system is in the heating or the cooling mode when you use a setback. 

When you use a term like "guests" it raises a whole other set of variables. 

If you want effective answers, you do well to explain what sort of rooms/buildings you're trying to control, and what sort of use-patterns will be involved. That and what stage are you at regarding the purchasing/installation of the actual hardware?

So, yeah, some of us DO know the answers, but not for vague questions.


----------



## wkearney99

kokan said:


> I wish...shades and audio/video are given to another company so this ten Touchpros and the main repeater are the only things we will do. Thanks.


Hmmm, well, this is a forum that has a lot of end-users active on it. Not just installers, and many (most?) of the users here quite often know more than installers.

When I see an answer like that I'm left feeling like there's a customer out there that's about to get handed a system that doesn't actually do what they want, installed by people that didn't care to understand what was actually needed. Nope, just following specs, damned if it won't work, we don't care...


----------



## wkearney99

Ok, back to _useful_ application questions, has anyone run across an LED reading lamp that can be dimmed by an in-line Lutron dimmer? Like the 3PD.

I've got one of these clipped onto the rails of my child's bunk bed:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G67EPG6

Works great, in that it generates a decent amount of light with absolutely no radiated heat. I had an episode as a child where I fell asleep trying to read while using one of those single-bulb Xmas candle lamps. Man, did mattresses made in the 60's catch fire quickly when they hit the night air! Anyway, I'm interested in encouraging reading but would prefer to avoid repeating my Dad's experience with combustible materials. Using a 3PD helps me manage the use of the light. It's got a timed event set every night, that and it's on keypads, making for easy control from elsewhere in house. I may couple it to a motion sensor and use a much longer delay for shut-off for the 'unoccupied' setting. But motion sensing for sedentary activities is never easy and often more annoying that it's worth. Anyway, that's a different topic.

The downside to that lamp is the dimmer is on the DC side of things, not the transformer feeding it. I tried, and it does not respond to dimming with the 3PD.

So I'm looking to find some kind of similar no/low-heat lighting for this purpose. One that clamps and has a gooseneck would be ideal, but at some point I'd be willing to punt and go with something that hung on the wall.

Anyone run across a lighting need like this?


----------



## notek

wkearney99 said:


> Anyone run across a lighting need like this?


Haven't seen it, but you can try taking a regular gooseneck lamp of your liking, replace bulb with a dimmable LED (using adapter if needed), connect it to a dimmable power supply, and connect that to the 3PD dimmer.


----------



## wkearney99

Trouble is a lot of the replacement LED elements generate a fair amount of heat, which I'm specifically trying to avoid.


----------



## notek

wkearney99 said:


> Trouble is a lot of the replacement LED elements generate a fair amount of heat, which I'm specifically trying to avoid.


I meant just a low voltage dimmable LED diode, not the replacement LED bulb. It would be small enough to fit into the small lamp, and would require external power supply I mentioned above.


----------



## wkearney99

I may try to find an alternative power supply for the existing light. The element accepts being dimmed, which is a good start. Not all LED configurations support being dimmed by voltage change, doing so greatly shortens their life. The trick will be in finding a suitable power supply that'll work with the Lutron in-line dimmer and provide the proper voltage range. I'll have to double-check what voltage the lamp expects and ask that on the lutron forums.


----------



## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> I may try to find an alternative power supply for the existing light. The element accepts being dimmed, which is a good start. Not all LED configurations support being dimmed by voltage change, doing so greatly shortens their life. The trick will be in finding a suitable power supply that'll work with the Lutron in-line dimmer and provide the proper voltage range. I'll have to double-check what voltage the lamp expects and ask that on the lutron forums.


I really wish my thread updates would show up regularly(sorry I didn't see this sooner), anyway.... 

If you can tell from the power supply if it is Constant Voltage or Constant Current, you may be able to replace with a magnetic based "wall-wart" transformer (constant voltage). _[I wish they would have used other terms I think there are a little of a misnomer, just confusing to some]_ We do this all the time with small cabinet lights. The 3PD is pretty forgiving but I think it's also listed as 10w min. and your lamp it 4w(?) so the magnetic based power supply being a less efficient power supply might get you there. (send me a picture of the transformer ratings if you need help) If it's constant voltage it probably says something like 12VDC 500ma

If it's constant current it may or may not list a voltage, if so usually a range but it will state 350ma, 500ma, or 750ma for that small of a lamp probably 350ma. If this is the type you have there is little you can do except re-build the lamp with some LED tape and use a magnetic wall-wart. (There are other options, but it's probably cheaper to rebuild if you're inclined to do so)

How about just using the RR-15APS (plug in switching module) and leave the dimming locally on the cord? May still have a min. load problem....


----------



## wkearney99

No worries. I've configured the 3PD as a switch (not a dimmer) and left the cord adjusted to a desired brightness level (and taped over after that). It's workable for now. 

After the holidays I'll see about getting more info about the power supply. 

What has worked nicely has been configuring a pair of 3BRL Pico remotes in a two-gang Claro wall plate. Two pieces of 3M Command picture hanging strips on the back... and it looks just like a regular wall switch setup. Works great up next to the bunk bed. No more issues with 'the dark' now that there's local control. Score a win from Paul, Hanks and Lutron!


----------



## spiwrx

9.3 is available if you didn't know. Just spoke with another guy on 6.3 and needs to upgrade, these is very tedious if you skip full versions, it doesn't always up-convert if you are more than 1 behind. 

Second because of this issue, and if you don't know or have the software you used to program I might suggest adding some convention to you file name structure to let you know what version it was created in. The software I think does this automatically but if you re-name you may not be able to find out except by trial and error opening it in each version until it opens or allows you to convert. 

From 9.3 readme

Fixes in 9.3
 Added a support for the new GRAFIK T Phase selectable Dimmer. _(Grafik T I believe is still inclusive only)_
 Resolved issue with not being able to activate a Main Repeaters when it is in Boot Mode.
 Resolved issue preventing Main Repeater upgrade when using Remote Programming.
 Resolved issue which causes unnecessary XML downloads in the app.
 Resolved an issue where firmware upgrade of two Main Repeater systems would to stop at 98% in GUI.
 Resolved an issue where copy and pasting a time clock mode button on an extracted project file crashes the GUI.
 Resolved an issue where grace period would not work correctly for vacancy sensor in project files converted from database versions less than 7.0.
 Resolved an issue where in an extracted project, time clock events would be scheduled for execution every day, even though they were originally programmed for selected days only.

Known Issues:
1. Emergency heat cannot be forced on from the seeTemp or through an integration command. Emergency heat will still activate when temperature delta is high enough to trigger the Auxiliary heat.
2. With certain enterprise networking equipment the Main repeater cannot be activated when it is in Boot Mode. To address this, connect the Main Repeater directly to the PC or Laptop and activate the Main Repeater.
3. In some instances, when firmware upgrading two main repeaters, the PC tool will report that the firmware update only reaches 98% while the devices do get the firmware update. In this situation, please restart the PC tool. Then choose “Update Main Repeater Firmware” from the tools menu. If both the main repeater version and the latest version shown on the screen match, then there is no need to attempt to update the repeaters again.
4. In some instances, when firmware upgrading a main repeater, users will see the message “You cannot update main repeater firmware over a remote connection”. Please ensure that you are on the same network as your main repeaters. If you still see this message, please restart the software, and reattempt firmware update. If this doesn’t resolve the issue, please contact Technical Support.
5. When using the Verify Low End Trim tool, GRAFIK T devices will save a value slightly different from the value selected.
6. When adding programming via the app to a keypad button that was never programmed to any device in the PC tool, the programming will apply in the app, but the keypad’s physical button will not respond to the programming until it is retransferred from the PC tool.


----------



## jusolson

Hello everybody, I am in the process of wireing up a small room that will be a play room for kids. I want to know how products such as the Phillips hue or lifx lights work in a radio ra2 system. I was thinking it would be cool to have the color effects in a room for the kids, but I'd like to tie it into my existing rra2 sysytem. This way an "all off" , or " night" command could turn these lights off as we all know kids won't always turn them off. I assume the switch would still turn the light on? Would it default to a previous setting? Or would dimming not work? I realize I'd need the hue app or whatnot to change color. Anyway just wondering if anybody has any real world experience or a solution with this situation. Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

jusolson said:


> Hello everybody, I am in the process of _wiring _up a small room that will be a play room for kids. I want to know how products such as the Phillips hue or lifx lights work in a radio ra2 system. I was thinking it would be cool to have the color effects in a room for the kids, but I'd like to tie it into my existing rra2 _system_. This way an "all off" , or " night" command could turn these lights off as we all know kids won't always turn them off. I assume the switch would still turn the light on? Would it default to a previous setting? Or would dimming not work? I realize I'd need the hue app or whatnot to change color. Anyway just wondering if anybody has any real world experience or a solution with this situation.  Thanks!


At this point there's no convenient way to directly integrate RGB color strip lighting with a RA2 setup. You could put their power supply on a RA2 RR‑3PD‑1 in-line switch/dimmer module. I have my son's bunkbed reading lamp on one, along with a tabletop disco ball. Neither of those lamps handles dimming, so I have the 3PD's configured as switches. 

You could also use the RR‑15APS‑1 appliance module for the same purpose, but the 3PD is sometimes less expensive and more versatile if you even change to a dimmable light. 

Most (all?) RGB tape sets are unlikely to respond properly to being used with an external dimmer (RA2 or otherwise). I have the Hue sets and I know they specifically do not. Their controller needs full wall power and it handles dimming itself. Dimming it via wall or in-line voltage changes will disrupt the controller (and potentially damage it). They're more designed to be controlled solely by their own tools, not by in-line or wall dimmers. There's ways to work with LED tapes but not while also having RGB color control. There's currently no convenient way to do controlled color with RA2. 

I was leaning toward using a hybrid of a Hue controller with 3rd party RGB tape. But Philips recent firmware changes have made me (and many others) VERY leery of trusting just what they will or won't support. Basically, since teaming up with Apple and Homekit they're playing the dick-move of proprietary-only support, where they originally supported standard zigbee devices. Not cool (nor has their recent firmware honestly back-tracked, contrary to their press releases).

There are other contenders for RGBW tape control (Fibraro, Dresden) and I'm looking into them. The trouble is getting the same kind of reliable and quality control of them, as they're z-wave and zigbee and there's no direct way to use them with RA2. At least not without moving to a 3rd party controller (SmartThings, Wink, Vera, etc) but then you're tacking on a whole other set of hassles.

Lutron has REALLY dropped the ball when it comes to emerging home automation initiatives. It's shocking how tone-deaf they've been to it.


----------



## jusolson

wkearney99 said:


> At this point there's no convenient way to directly integrate RGB color strip lighting with a RA2 setup. You could put their power supply on a RA2 RR‑3PD‑1 in-line switch/dimmer module. I have my son's bunkbed reading lamp on one, along with a tabletop disco ball. Neither of those lamps handles dimming, so I have the 3PD's configured as switches.
> 
> You could also use the RR‑15APS‑1 appliance module for the same purpose, but the 3PD is sometimes less expensive and more versatile if you even change to a dimmable light.
> 
> Most (all?) RGB tape sets are unlikely to respond properly to being used with an external dimmer (RA2 or otherwise). I have the Hue sets and I know they specifically do not. Their controller needs full wall power and it handles dimming itself. Dimming it via wall or in-line voltage changes will disrupt the controller (and potentially damage it). They're more designed to be controlled solely by their own tools, not by in-line or wall dimmers. There's ways to work with LED tapes but not while also having RGB color control. There's currently no convenient way to do controlled color with RA2.
> 
> I was leaning toward using a hybrid of a Hue controller with 3rd party RGB tape. But Philips recent firmware changes have made me (and many others) VERY leery of trusting just what they will or won't support. Basically, since teaming up with Apple and Homekit they're playing the dick-move of proprietary-only support, where they originally supported standard zigbee devices. Not cool (nor has their recent firmware honestly back-tracked, contrary to their press releases).
> 
> There are other contenders for RGBW tape control (Fibraro, Dresden) and I'm looking into them. The trouble is getting the same kind of reliable and quality control of them, as they're z-wave and zigbee and there's no direct way to use them with RA2. At least not without moving to a 3rd party controller (SmartThings, Wink, Vera, etc) but then you're tacking on a whole other set of hassles.
> 
> Lutron has REALLY dropped the ball when it comes to emerging home automation initiatives. It's shocking how tone-deaf they've been to it.


Thanks for the great response! I didn't think there was a " great " solution. I have a family room/ theater space planned out in the basement and would like to incorporate RGBW lighting with, or along side of the RRA2. I won't be getting to that aspect of the space for at least 2 yrs so I'm hoping a more integrated solution comes along by then.

As for the kids space, I could for-go the rra2 dimming and just set it up as a switch. Wouldn't the hue light still work? It would always have full power when on. I would then use the hue app to control color. I guess I haven't been around those lights, does the manual switch to the fixture have to left on, and the hue's software and hardware turn it off? I'm talking about a br-30 bulb and not the tape. Thanks for clearing this up!


----------



## wkearney99

Correct, anything with a controller will still work, provided you power it on before using whatever other controls it needs. This applies to tapes, bulbs, accent lights, etc. The downside is whatever software or controller you might be using obviously won't be able to turn them on since the controller in them won't be getting power. 

At this point the only glimmer of hope for Lutron is the fact they've put the RF control into devices like the Wink or a Staples hub. Neither of which are very robust solutions, and they're only supporting the Caseta variant of the Lutron RF. Which is entirely bogus as Caseta's RF is *exactly* the same tech as that used by RA2. Lutron's really backed themselves into a corner pretending otherwise. Caseta hasn't gained the sales they'd like (butt ugly, no advertising, 50 device fake limit) and RA2's been left in the cold. Meanwhile QS isn't exactly leading the market either.


----------



## Neurorad

wkearney99 said:


> Correct, anything with a controller will still work, provided you power it on before using whatever other controls it needs. This applies to tapes, bulbs, accent lights, etc. The downside is whatever software or controller you might be using obviously won't be able to turn them on since the controller in them won't be getting power.
> 
> At this point the only glimmer of hope for Lutron is the fact they've put the RF control into devices like the Wink or a Staples hub. Neither of which are very robust solutions, and they're only supporting the Caseta variant of the Lutron RF. Which is entirely bogus as Caseta's RF is *exactly* the same tech as that used by RA2. Lutron's really backed themselves into a corner pretending otherwise. Caseta hasn't gained the sales they'd like (butt ugly, no advertising, 50 device fake limit) and RA2's been left in the cold. Meanwhile QS isn't exactly leading the market either.


Announced in October, from a couple pages ago:



bpfunk said:


> In addition to some new LED friendly hybrid keypad offerings, seeing the Lutron Connect Bridge and software showing up under radiora2 on the Lutron website. Do we think the caseta-like software and bridge coming to radiora 2?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/162-home-automation/1178211-lutrons-radiora2-50.html#post38120953


----------



## wkearney99

The Connect Bridge functionality has not been defined anywhere, at least not publicly. From what I gather it's just a link to the same kind of Xively cloud service that's been problematic for the Caseta gear. I'm guessing the existing RA2 repeaters in the field don't have the necessary specs to act as a bridge on their own. Likely not enough memory, CPU or both. That and a Caseta hub has both the bridge AND local device repeater functionality. So throwing a Caseta hub at it would be overkill in that there's a radio in there that "doesn't need to be". At the same time there's probably enough about the Caseta hubs that prevent them from being a direct replacement of a RA2 repeater. So I'm guessing they're splitting the cloud features out and making it just a bridge. For a lot of (smart) people that's not a good solution. 

It's kind of unfortunate they haven't taken the step of moving their HWQS controllers toward the mass market. Reinventing the wheel to interface with unreliable cloud solutions doesn't seem like a good plan. For a bunch of reasons, for me it's about response time and security. Neither of which are acceptable with cloud-based solutions for home automation. 

The bind they've got themselves in is because they're trying to sell *exactly *the same *tech *into different markets and pretending the customers won't be smart enough to tell. Or that integrators will somehow rise up and be motivated enough to make the sales pitch that cons the customers into being gouged. The customers aren't that dumb anymore (if they ever were). Nor are the integrators interested in being played the fool in the middle (aka rip-and-replace Caseta). This is likely among the many reasons Caseta hasn't sold in the volumes they'd like. It was too crippled, too ugly and offered too little to clearly differentiate itself. That and Lutron did zero marketing for it. The customers have bought based on price and other company marketing efforts.

It would seem a lot smarter to just bail on having Caseta as a separate product line. Better to blend Caseta and RA2 together _(because they're exactly the same tech)_, sell it at Caseta's price point and offer an all-in-one hub for it that could still work in situations where multiple repeaters are necessary. Basically, put an extra serial and slave port on a Caseta Smart Pro hub. Ditch trying to pretend that Caseta and Serena aren't exactly the same gear as RA2 and Sivoia (with less fabric options). There's a huge mid-range of consumers out there that want more than Caseta but are unwilling to be lead down the HWQS path (for any number of reasons).

I suppose the only real risk here is some RA2 customers are going to feel slighted that they've been paying too much. That and integrators will potentially have to work harder to sell services, not just inflated margins. I'd certainly have been glad to pay less, don't get me wrong, but I paid what I consider a reasonable price for what has been excellent gear. I'll gladly buy a number of new Caseta-only offerings like the plug-in modules. I'm sure a lot of Caseta customers would love to make use of RA2 color choices, sensors and (more importantly) up to 200 devices. 

At what point does the momentum of sales going to the competition have to become so glaringly obvious that they need to move against it? Or are they going to follow their founder? Have they lost their way that badly?


----------



## Neurorad

I know the glass wallplates (clear, green) are supposed to be reserved for QS Architectural and 'New Architectural' Grafik T, but could the Architectural SeeTouch *Accessory* Wallplate be used for RA2 KPs and dimmers?

Example: LFGR-1-CWH









http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Product...ols/Wallplates-Accessories/Architectural.aspx

Looks like a simple Decora opening, for the Architectural *Accessory* wallplate, used for outlets and low voltage items, available in 1-, 2-, and 3-gang configurations.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Edit - this would be the same glass wallplate used for a Pico, in a QS install


----------



## Neurorad

I am installing some undercabinet and in-cabinet lights, and these will be controlled with 2 in-cabinet RA2 dimmers. Wall-mounted KP nearby for scene control.

I am trying to decide on additional, more easily accessible control(s). Was thinking about a Pico taped under each end of this relatively long cabinet. Which Pico? Am leaning toward a 2-button, scene on and scene off, easier to operate without looking than a 2 button with raise/lower, or a 3 button. Good/bad idea?

*Could an undercabinet occupancy sensor be configured to utilize a hand wave in the right spot? * How effective is the PIR Lens Mask (L-CMDPIRKIT)? Could I just mask most of the sensors, so that a hand passing between the undercabinet Occupancy Sensor and the wall turn on the light, e.g., for 5 minutes? Or, use a Pico or KP to turn off the light.

If anyone has tried either, please give me some feedback. Thanks!


----------



## CSO

Neurorad said:


> I am installing some undercabinet and in-cabinet lights, and these will be controlled with 2 in-cabinet RA2 dimmers. Wall-mounted KP nearby for scene control.
> 
> I am trying to decide on additional, more easily accessible control(s). Was thinking about a Pico taped under each end of this relatively long cabinet. Which Pico? Am leaning toward a 2-button, scene on and scene off, easier to operate without looking than a 2 button with raise/lower, or a 3 button. Good/bad idea?
> 
> *Could an undercabinet occupancy sensor be configured to utilize a hand wave in the right spot? * How effective is the PIR Lens Mask (L-CMDPIRKIT)? Could I just mask most of the sensors, so that a hand passing between the undercabinet Occupancy Sensor and the wall turn on the light, e.g., for 5 minutes? Or, use a Pico or KP to turn off the light.
> 
> If anyone has tried either, please give me some feedback. Thanks!


I find the round Lutron occupancy sensors to be very good. I installed a round sensor in my wife's walk in closet, and she is very picky about home automation. It has worked well for her. You could certainly mount a round sensor under your room's upper cabinet and waive a hand to activate the light. This would be an effective solution. Is there a reason that you wouldn't just mount the occupancy sensor on the ceiling of the room and let it activate an entire scene?

On the other hand, the Picos are really convenient. They can be mounted almost anywhere. I just mounted Picos on the bedside tables in my children's rooms.

I think you would be happy with either Pico or occupancy sensor. It just depends on what level of automation and degree of interaction you want with the system in your room.


----------



## Neurorad

CSO said:


> I find the round Lutron occupancy sensors to be very good. I installed a round sensor in my wife's walk in closet, and she is very picky about home automation. It has worked well for her. You could certainly mount a round sensor under your room's upper cabinet and waive a hand to activate the light. This would be an effective solution. Is there a reason that you wouldn't just mount the occupancy sensor on the ceiling of the room and let it activate an entire scene?
> 
> On the other hand, the Picos are really convenient. They can be mounted almost anywhere. I just mounted Picos on the bedside tables in my children's rooms.
> 
> I think you would be happy with either Pico or occupancy sensor. It just depends on what level of automation and degree of interaction you want with the system in your room.


That's good to hear about the occupancy sensors. I'm unsure if the sensor profile will be too obvious, mounted under-cabinet. There is a lip around the bottom edge of the upper cabinets, designed to hide the light strip (aka 'light rail/molding'), but the occupancy sensor may still be too visible. I don't want to drill, for flush mounting; undercabinet has a nice veneer.

This row of cabinets is in a high traffic area, separating the kitchen from the rest of the house, and we have ceiling downlights that handle most of the lighting, for daily use. Undercabinet strip light hasn't been installed yet, so I'm unsure how helpful the light will really be, for the most common scene.

I ordered an occupancy sensor (from spiwrx, at Hank's Electric, thanks Paul!), to try it out the hand wave. We'll see how it goes. Picos will be a great fall-back, and Hybrid Keypad will be wall-mounted next to the cabinets - the previous undercabinet light was operated from a wall-mounted toggle.


----------



## Neurorad

Neurorad said:


> I know the glass wallplates (clear, green) are supposed to be reserved for QS Architectural and 'New Architectural' Grafik T, but could the Architectural SeeTouch *Accessory* Wallplate be used for RA2 KPs and dimmers?
> 
> Example: LFGR-1-CWH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Product...ols/Wallplates-Accessories/Architectural.aspx
> 
> Looks like a simple Decora opening, for the Architectural *Accessory* wallplate, used for outlets and low voltage items, available in 1-, 2-, and 3-gang configurations.
> 
> Any insight would be appreciated.
> 
> Edit - this would be the same glass wallplate used for a Pico, in a QS install


spiwrx confirmed that the RA2 KPs and dimmers fit into the Lutron Glass Faceplates, LFGR-1, LFGR-2, and LFGR-3. He found this image:










and he provided the documentation: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369756_ENG.pdf

He also said the new C/L Hybrid Keypad will be released very soon.

Thanks, Paul. Greatly appreciated!


----------



## CSO

I was going to say, be careful of the load. ELV lighting may not play very well with hybrid keypads, but then I saw your comment about the new CL hybrid keypads coming. Hopefully the new CL hybrid devices will be able to handle ELV loads better.


----------



## Neurorad

CSO said:


> I was going to say, be careful of the load, ELV lighting may not play very well with hybrid keypads, but then I saw your comment about the new CL hybrid keypads coming. Hopefully the new CL dimmers will be able to handle ELV loads better.


I had a relatively bad experience with a CL dimmer, for a low watt LED load. Solved with a 6NA.

I have 3 other Hybrid KPs planned, for the future. If this standard Hybrid KP doesn't work well for this location, I have a backup plan for it. 

Anyone have recs for a high CRI LED A19? Cree TW have been getting mixed reviews lately.


----------



## CSO

You are right about the high CRI A19 bulb. Why haven't manufacturers jumped on this? It seems most consumers either don't know or care about CRI. If a LED bulb lasts umpteen years then I don't want to be stuck with one that emits a poor quality of light.

The Cree TW's are good--very good, in the right application, but light dispersion with them can be an issue. They use a special film coating on the globe to achieve their high CRI. While they're probably the best LED A19 bulb available, it seems there could be better. FWIW, I've had 3 Cree TW A19 bulbs in service for over two years with good results.


----------



## John Gibbons

Neurorad said:


> spiwrx confirmed that the RA2 KPs and dimmers fit into the Lutron Glass Faceplates, LFGR-1, LFGR-2, and LFGR-3. He found this image:
> 
> REMOVED (due to post count restriction), see original post above for the image.


Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm brand new to all of this. The keypad in the image has flat buttons which is different from the typical RRA2 keypads I've seen. Is this a new style? Is it the new keypad you're referring to? 

Thanks,
John


----------



## rapamatic

John Gibbons said:


> Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm brand new to all of this. The keypad in the image has flat buttons which is different from the typical RRA2 keypads I've seen. Is this a new style? Is it the new keypad you're referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John



That's a 4 button pico in the picture.


----------



## John Gibbons

rapamatic said:


> That's a 4 button pico in the picture.


Thanks. I should have known since I have one of those 4 button connected bulb remotes which is fairly similar in styling.

Cheers,
John


----------



## Neurorad

John Gibbons said:


> Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm brand new to all of this. The keypad in the image has flat buttons which is different from the typical RRA2 keypads I've seen. Is this a new style? Is it the new keypad you're referring to?
> 
> Thanks,
> John


That style is from the more exclusive HomeWorks QS line of lighting control, which include several designs. RadioRA 2 keypads only come in the Designer seeTouch with insert style, and the newly released Grafik T.

HomeWorks QS keypad brochure: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672434a_HWQS keypad DSG_screen view.pdf

Current RadioRA 2 brochure (10/2015): http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/367-1663.pdf

Lutron Glass Faceplates wallplates are only made for select QS KPs and dimmers (but one of them has the same Decora opening for RA2 - Designer seeTouch with insert).

I strongly considered installing HomeWorks originally, but I wanted to DIY, and the wife didn't want to spend the money, 2 good reasons. That looks like a Palladiom KP above, with the glass wallplate.


----------



## John Gibbons

Neurorad said:


> That style is from the more exclusive HomeWorks QS line of lighting control, which include several designs. RadioRA 2 keypads only come in the Designer seeTouch with insert style, and the newly released Grafik T.
> 
> HomeWorks QS keypad brochure: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672434a_HWQS keypad DSG_screen view.pdf
> 
> Current RadioRA 2 brochure (10/2015): http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/367-1663.pdf
> 
> Lutron Glass Faceplates wallplates are only made for select QS KPs and dimmers (but one of them has the same Decora opening for RA2 - Designer seeTouch with insert).
> 
> I strongly considered installing HomeWorks originally, but I wanted to DIY, and the wife didn't want to spend the money, 2 good reasons. That looks like a Palladiom KP above, with the glass wallplate.


Thanks. I take it the lack of Palladiom keypads for RR2 is purely marketing and not technical. It's a shame. Exactly how much more does Homeworks cost over Radio RA2, do you happen to know?

Cheers,
John


----------



## rapamatic

I think it's at least 2x the cost, but hard to compare apples to apples since it has a different model - more centralized dimming with panels and low voltage to keypads in rooms...

Biggest issue is that it is 100% NOT DIY, so you have to pay installer markup/list price...


----------



## Neurorad

My wild guess for QS, compared to RA2, could be way off the mark. I suggest you ask a local QS dealer for a quote for each.

I spoke with a colleague today about his new Caseta install. He was unhappy with it because one of his dimmers wasn't behaving correctly. He actually said he regretted installing it, because of this. I explained that there is a good chance it"s an RF issue (too far from the hub?), or maybe just a bad dimmer. He bought all the hardware and had a random electrician install it. So, he's unhappy because of an issue that would be easily solved with a dealer install. He wants it to 'just work' when, for a little extra effort, it would be perfect. Pro would have said that dimmer is too far, or would just try a different dimmer. There is a lot to be said for pro installs, by someone familiar with the tech.

I've been installing RA2 piecemeal in my house over the last 6 years, and still learn a lot every time I add hardware. If you really dig into the documentation, there are subtle details that you'll find that can make a difference, details that a pro already knows well.

If one is going to DIY RA2, read as much as you can, learn the details that a pro is already familiar with. And, find a good distributor that offers incredible support (thanks again, spiwrx!).

Keep in mind there are lots of local RA2 dealers around. Find a good one. The one who also installs HomeWorks QS is probably better than the one who doesn't. He'll cost more, but may be worth it to you. You might get a deal by using one who doesn't install HW QS.


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> My wild guess for QS, compared to RA2, could be way off the mark. I suggest you ask a local QS dealer for a quote for each.
> 
> I spoke with a colleague today about his new Caseta install. He was unhappy with it because one of his dimmers wasn't behaving correctly. He actually said he regretted installing it, because of this. I explained that there is a good chance it"s an RF issue (too far from the hub?), or maybe just a bad dimmer. He bought all the hardware and had a random electrician install it. So, he's unhappy because of an issue that would be easily solved with a dealer install. He wants it to 'just work' when, for a little extra effort, it would be perfect. Pro would have said that dimmer is too far, or would just try a different dimmer. There is a lot to be said for pro installs, by someone familiar with the tech.
> 
> I've been installing RA2 piecemeal in my house over the last 6 years, and still learn a lot every time I add hardware. If you really dig into the documentation, there are subtle details that you'll find that can make a difference, details that a pro already knows well.
> 
> If one is going to DIY RA2, read as much as you can, learn the details that a pro is already familiar with. And, find a good distributor that offers incredible support (thanks again, spiwrx!).
> 
> Keep in mind there are lots of local RA2 dealers around. Find a good one. The one who also installs HomeWorks QS is probably better than the one who doesn't. He'll cost more, but may be worth it to you. You might get a deal by using one who doesn't install HW QS.


I was also bummed to find the palladium was HW, maybe if enough of us complain...

HW vs. RA2 in terms of pricing is hard to say because piece by piece it can be close, but the initial processor and ancillary equipment is huge. The real downside is lack of user programming. Double is a fair guess but you realistically looking at near 10k to do a small home, plus programming/installation by a certified installer.

As far as the Caseta problem, I would try relocating the "Bridge" (Repeater) if possible, if it is indeed a range problem. If you care to share the details(load type, total, distances, etc) I may have other suggestions. Remember this was meant for a small apartment, studio, and single room applications. It was never intended for a full single family home. That being said I just did a tri-level condo for my niece with the stuff and it worked flawlessly and I was probably at 30ft from furthest devices easy. It's very limited as well. The App. is pretty basic also. No keypads, but you can create some scenes in the App. But for the basics of automation it's there and all she really needed. The second reason is the stuff isn't selling and I need to get rid of it... 

FYI: 

9.3 is out for those of you unaware. 

Hybrid CL should be releasing any day. 

Connect Bridge looks like it's pushed to the end of Q1.


----------



## Neurorad

Neurorad said:


> spiwrx confirmed that the RA2 KPs and dimmers fit into the Lutron Glass Faceplates, LFGR-1, LFGR-2, and LFGR-3. He found this image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and he provided the documentation: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369756_ENG.pdf
> 
> He also said the new C/L Hybrid Keypad will be released very soon.
> 
> Thanks, Paul. Greatly appreciated!





John Gibbons said:


> Forgive me if this is obvious, I'm brand new to all of this. The keypad in the image has flat buttons which is different from the typical RRA2 keypads I've seen. Is this a new style? Is it the new keypad you're referring to?
> 
> Thanks,
> John





rapamatic said:


> That's a 4 button pico in the picture.





Neurorad said:


> That style is from the more exclusive HomeWorks QS line of lighting control, which include several designs. RadioRA 2 keypads only come in the Designer seeTouch with insert style, and the newly released Grafik T.
> 
> HomeWorks QS keypad brochure: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672434a_HWQS keypad DSG_screen view.pdf
> 
> Current RadioRA 2 brochure (10/2015): http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/367-1663.pdf
> 
> Lutron Glass Faceplates wallplates are only made for select QS KPs and dimmers (but one of them has the same Decora opening for RA2 - Designer seeTouch with insert).
> 
> I strongly considered installing HomeWorks originally, but I wanted to DIY, and the wife didn't want to spend the money, 2 good reasons. That looks like a Palladiom KP above, with the glass wallplate.


OK, I'm an idiot. That image with the glass plate is not the Palladium. It's a 4-button wireless engravable battery operated Pico, not HW QS.

4-button Pico:









http://www.cepro.com/article/new_4-...ote_from_lutron_provides_cost-effective_scene

QS Palladium:


----------



## schalliol

I'm pretty sure you the standard Homeworks keypad button kits are compatible with RR2 keypads too:









I really like the Palladiom keypads, and I wish Lutron offered them for RR2. My gripe with the regular keypads is that the buttons are so small that they're not easy to press when holding something else or you don't want to completely stop walking.


----------



## jautor

schalliol said:


> I really like the Palladiom keypads, and I wish Lutron offered them for RR2. My gripe with the regular keypads is that the buttons are so small that they're not easy to press when holding something else or you don't want to completely stop walking.


Agreed! I've got a few locations where I only need two or three buttons, and it would be much more usable if that blank space was consumed by the buttons instead of having to hit the little tiny one... I have a keypad at the bottom of my stairs that I'd really like a Palladium!


----------



## schalliol

I know this isn't a classified forum, but since it's THE RR2 forum, is anyone interested I a good deal on a like new Lutron TouchPro? It's really easy to install and is in absolutely perfect condition. The thermostat is made by Honeywell and is Lutron ClearConnect enabled for control for home/away functions, mobile phone control etc. PM if interested. Will warrant it works perfectly initially or money back.


----------



## spiwrx

I know a few of you keep asking and Lutron keeps pushing back. The CL Hybrid Keypad and Connect Bridge both had their release pushed back to the End of March, and from my experience I may expect it to get pushed again, but I'll post here as soon as we're able to order and If I get enough interest maybe we'll do a group buy or some sort of additional discount. 

For those of you entertaining Glass Wallplates we have sold a few orders but initial feed back, specifically for Multi-Gang, is they are delicate and one customer broke a couple. Much like the screwless plates you may have to take them on/off a couple times to adjust their extension and to get them as flush as you want them. In doing so he cracked a couple. Just like their "Stainless" these are a very thin piece of glass over a plastic mount. The snap is not the same as there Claro (Plastic) plates, a lighter snap but even so, take care...


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> For those of you entertaining Glass Wallplates we have sold a few orders but initial feed back, specifically for Multi-Gang, is they are delicate and one customer broke a couple.


Heh, I have trouble not breaking plastic ones! Not Claro, though, those things are tough! I'll be skipping glass ones for the foreseeable future.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> I know a few of you keep asking and Lutron keeps pushing back. The CL Hybrid Keypad and Connect Bridge both had their release pushed back to the End of March, and from my experience I may expect it to get pushed again, but I'll post here as soon as we're able to order and If I get enough interest maybe we'll do a group buy or some sort of additional discount.


Count me in for a buy.


----------



## schalliol

+1 for connect bridge, but you already knew that


----------



## DMILANI

+1 for me too on group buy.


----------



## Neurorad

+1 group buy


----------



## op-center

I am watching this space for the connect bridge. I would definitely be interested in being part of a group buy.


----------



## schalliol

I really like AVS, but you should definitely also be checking the Lutron Forums for additional info. There's been some discussion about the Connect Bridge there.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> I really like AVS, but you should definitely also be checking the Lutron Forums for additional info. There's been some discussion about the Connect Bridge there.


I didn't notice any specific thread or maybe didn't dig deep enough. Do you have a more specific link?


----------



## FlyingDiver

Probably this one: https://forums.lutron.com/showthrea...ounces-Connect-Bridge-for-RadioRA2-(and-HW-QS)


----------



## jautor

FlyingDiver said:


> Probably this one: https://forums.lutron.com/showthrea...ounces-Connect-Bridge-for-RadioRA2-(and-HW-QS)


Which I started... But the thread here has more traffic!


----------



## spiwrx

Sorry guys I was fumbling through the message system here on AVS, I DM'd those of you that requested about the connect bridge. I don't like their message system so you may have got the same message once or twice. Please email me if you have questions, I really don't like how cumbersome their message system is. I still don't have all the details on functionality, some of you probably know more about it than me already, but I'll do my best to find out.


----------



## spiwrx

Everyone the Connect was supposed to release on the 14th and got pushed back to the 31st. For USPS orders you have to wait for us to receive them and re-ship. For orders that added other items and are drop shipping, they should ship with 48hours (2 business days) of the release date direct to you on UPS or FEDEX Ground.

Lutron has played with this release date moving it back and forth since January. If you want to cancel and get a refund just contact me. Otherwise I hope to see these start heading out First week of April. Again, it's out of my control we have several orders in with them and will get them to you as soon as possible. If you have other items on the same order they should release sooner and may ship in multiple shipments.


----------



## DMILANI

spiwrx said:


> Everyone the Connect was supposed to release on the 14th and got pushed back to the 31st. For USPS orders you have to wait for us to receive them and re-ship. For orders that added other items and are drop shipping, they should ship with 48hours (2 business days) of the release date direct to you on UPS or FEDEX Ground.
> 
> Lutron has played with this release date moving it back and forth since January. If you want to cancel and get a refund just contact me. Otherwise I hope to see these start heading out First week of April. Again, it's out of my control we have several orders in with them and will get them to you as soon as possible. If you have other items on the same order they should release sooner and may ship in multiple shipments.


Thanks for the update Paul.


----------



## dragonian

Is it too late for me to jump in on the group buy for the connect bridge? I assumed that there was going to be another notification after it was actually available..

Thanks


----------



## spiwrx

dragonian said:


> Is it too late for me to jump in on the group buy for the connect bridge? I assumed that there was going to be another notification after it was actually available..
> 
> Thanks


Please email me directly if we haven't already spoke. _paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net

_To the rest of you, if I haven't already delivered the bad news, Lutron has again bumped the release to April 15th. Again any pre-orders I've taken are completely refundable, just let me know....


----------



## Foos-Man

The connect bridge seems very "meh" to me although I haven't done a thorough investigation. I use Simple Control (formerly Roomie remote) and it works great. For access out of the house my router has a built in VPN (Asus router). From iphone under settings you enable VPN and then you have access to all your lights. Honestly there aren't many times I need to access lights from outside the house. Simple control also handles my motorized curtains (using Somfy motor with Raspberry Pi). I'm still looking for the perfect home automation HUB.

Curious what you like about the connect bridge?


----------



## Brian Garber

Foos-Man said:


> From iphone under settings you enable VPN and then you have access to all your lights. Honestly there aren't many times I need to access lights from outside the house. Simple control also handles my motorized curtains (using Somfy motor with Raspberry Pi). I'm still looking for the perfect home automation HUB.
> 
> Curious what you like about the connect bridge?


Hello Foos, I too use a VPN into my router and the current app works just fine. However, I was planning on getting the bridge anyway. For one, I wonder how much longer Lutron will support the current Home Control+ app, and secondly I'm hoping that (along with geofencing and Nest support) that there will be additional functionality added in the future.

BTW, I also use Somfy blinds, and am curious how you use the RPi to control. I've recorded the Somfy waveform with an SDR dongle but have yet to fully decode the bitstream. I was planning on using a seriously cheap 433MHz serial transceiver module with the RPi.


----------



## spiwrx

Brian Garber said:


> BTW, I also use Somfy blinds, and am curious how you use the RPi to control. I've recorded the Somfy waveform with an SDR dongle but have yet to fully decode the bitstream. I was planning on using a seriously cheap 433MHz serial transceiver module with the RPi.


FWIW, When we do Somfy with RR2 they (Somfy) offer a "RTS" Dry Contact interface we typically interface with an RR2 VCRX. But I encourage you to consider the Lutron Triathlon Shades as the price is good and they are way easier to control w/ RR2 and more programming options.


----------



## Brian Garber

spiwrx said:


> FWIW, When we do Somfy with RR2 they (Somfy) offer a "RTS" Dry Contact interface we typically interface with an RR2 VCRX.


Thank you for your reply. I like the idea of using the RTS dry contact interface with the RR2 VCRX (which I have in the garage), but I'm wondering about the range on the Somfy RTS thing. Would it be better for me to buy a RA2 RF CCO module to keep the RTS thing closer to my blinds. (I'd guess they are about 80' or so from the garage to the blinds... +/- 40'!)

P.S. Sorry to hijack the thread, I couldn't PM yet due to low post count!!!

-Brian


----------



## spiwrx

Brian Garber said:


> Thank you for your reply. I like the idea of using the RTS dry contact interface with the RR2 VCRX (which I have in the garage), but I'm wondering about the range on the Somfy RTS thing. Would it be better for me to buy a RA2 RF CCO module to keep the RTS thing closer to my blinds. (I'd guess they are about 80' or so from the garage to the blinds... +/- 40'!)
> 
> P.S. Sorry to hijack the thread, I couldn't PM yet due to low post count!!!
> 
> -Brian


You should be able to cover that distance, might just up to the next wire size, maybe an 18awg min., speaker or control cable, if you have some 16 or 14 leftover from speakers, even better. 

VCRX would still be cheaper and I believe the CCO's require "Inclusive" software. Additionally I can't access my resources right now, but I beleive the CCO only has one output per module and you need 3 CCO's for all features of the RTS or at least 2 for just open and close. The VCRX has 4x CCO's

The thing that isn't that great is the lack of preset with the Somfy. However I think you could time a output of the VCRX or CCO to kind of create a preset "mid-level" stop if that's important to you. Maybe use the 4th CCO to parallel the "Close" with a timed output. If you want to contact me, best to reach me by email anyway, paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net


----------



## Foos-Man

Brian Garber said:


> Hello Foos, I too use a VPN into my router and the current app works just fine. However, I was planning on getting the bridge anyway. For one, I wonder how much longer Lutron will support the current Home Control+ app, and secondly I'm hoping that (along with geofencing and Nest support) that there will be additional functionality added in the future.
> 
> BTW, I also use Somfy blinds, and am curious how you use the RPi to control. I've recorded the Somfy waveform with an SDR dongle but have yet to fully decode the bitstream. I was planning on using a seriously cheap 433MHz serial transceiver module with the RPi.


BTW- not trying to talk people out of the bridge, I think it's great Lutron is expanding the capability and there's a good chance I may buy one.

Brian: I thought about trying to use a SDR, but was concerned it may be to difficult to decode the protocol and implement. I had originally planned to rip open a Somfy remote and connect it to the GPIO port on the RPi. I got lucky and found a "Somfy RS232 to RTS interface w/ X10" for under $10 on ebay. I added 2 RS232 ports to the RPi and use one to control the curtains and the second port to control a projector. I'm not a huge fan of using an ipad mini as a theater room remote due to the lack of hard buttons, but the level of integration you can do with Simple Control is nice. Instead of the RPi you could purchase IP to RS232 controllers from simple control and other vendors versus rolling your own on the RPi, but in my case I'm controlling several RS232 devices an IR device and planned to control the Somfy blinds through Lutron keypads. 

I'll start another thread on the RPi control of RA2, as I'm sure there is interest here. I'd also like to integrate Amazon echo via the RPi to control RA2 lights. I have C code I wrote for the RPi that I just need to clean up a bit that interfaces to the RA2 controller that seems to work well. I've been testing for a little while now. I can control devices as well as monitor messages from devices, etc. It's a bit low-level and I'd like to build on it as it might be too intimidating to non-C coders out there.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> I'll start another thread on the RPi control of RA2, as I'm sure there is interest here......


Absolutely, be sure to post a link to the thread when it's available. 

The RTS/VCRX may be better suited for the less technically inclined, but I'll be interested to see where this goes with the RPi. Haven't even considered using my RPi for HA yet, but why not.


----------



## Brian Garber

spiwrx said:


> Haven't even considered using my RPi for HA yet, but why not.


I use my RPi to telnet into the main repeater to check garage door status (gone to bed a bit inebriated and would forget to shut the doors!). Unfortunately Essentials doesn't allow conditionals (if this then that). More about it in the new thread!


----------



## notek

Brian Garber said:


> I wonder how much longer Lutron will support the current Home Control+ app


Old app will still be available - but it won't get any new updates for new firmware or hardware. So it will work for all the systems installed today - but not for new stuff.



> and secondly I'm hoping that (along with geofencing and Nest support) that there will be additional functionality added in the future.


Geofencing in the first version of the bridge is not very exciting. Nest support is very limited as well. Things might get better with future app & firmware updates - we will see...


----------



## notek

Speaking of Somfy, anyone here used Somfy Connect, part #1870210? It connects directly to RR2 repeater.


----------



## spiwrx

Looks Like V10.0 is available now and we Have Connect Support (BTW, Connect release got delayed again until the 29th, called Lutron and this is supposed to be a firm date). 

If you haven't visited in a while the old resource site is no more, you have to log-in through myLutron off the main site if you haven't already. (your regular credentials should work there to login) If any of you have been assisted into Inclusive, that option is now gone, you'll have to contact Luton about getting upgraded. 

*Rollback!!!, *what a horrible name, but this is a new "off delay" feature we've been asking for (they are listening)!!!! Read more below....

...Note the *Known Issues* Below When using Windows 10 (Firewall disable)

*Interesting* it says: "_contains RA2 system requirements for PC and MAC computers_" But I didn't notice any MAC Spec's.. Or DLs w/ appropriate extension. Maybe soon?? (Not a very experienced MAC user though) Maybe one of you MAC people can give it a try.... 

Full Release Notes here
(http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/RadioRA%202_10_0_ReleaseNotes.pdf)

Release Notes: 
New in 10.0 
New Products 
Connect Bridge 
The Connect Bridge allows access to the new Lutron Connect mobile app and free remote access. TheConnect Bridge and Lutron Connect app are replacements for the Lutron Home Control+ App (the LHC+ app will still work with HWQS 10.0, but all new features will be available only in Lutron Connect). The new features in the Connect App are as follows:


 Geofencing—Using location data on your mobile phone, be notified if lights are left on whenyou leave the vicinity of your home.
Widgets—Access commonly used presets from your Android phone’s home screen or iPhone’s widget
HomeGlance—Customizable home screen in the app that allows you to place commonly used buttons and devices within quick reach.
3rd Party HVAC Integration—Control Nest and Honeywell Wi-Fi thermostats from the app.
Battery Status Reporting—Be notified if a battery powered device in your system is reporting a low battery. (Supported for RF occupancy/vacancy sensors, Picos, and Battery Powered Shades). 

The Connect Bridge also adds internet time syncing so that the system time will be corrected if necessary as long as the connect bridge has a connection to the internet. 

GrafikT RF Hybrid C.L Keypad
A new RF hybrid keypad aesthetic that matches GrafikT Dimmers and Sliders. Controls up to 450 Watts of incandescent or 150 Watts of approved LED/CFL load. 

*New Features *
Rollback 
Program loads on an area-by-area basis to turn off automatically after a programmable delay. Rollback is often used in areas like closets or bathrooms that don’t have an occupancy sensor, but you want the lights to turn off automatically if someone forgets to turn them off. Rollback will detect when the loads in a room are turned on, and then start a programmable delay timer. After the delay expires, the loads will go to a programmable preset. If the area is controlled again before the delay time expires, the delay will be reset and starts counting down again.


*Improvements *


Resolved issue where tweaks made to an HVAC schedule on a TouchPro Thermostat via the mobile app would not update on the Thermostat itself.
Resolved issue where emergency heat would not be able to set from the LHC+ or through the see-temp.



Known Issues:


Using Windows 10, you may have trouble communicating to the main repeaters from the software. The workaround for this is to disable your windows 10 firewall during database transfer. For more information on this, please see the “Networking Best Practices” document in the application notes section of myLutron.
If you have more than 2 HVAC controllers on the same RF link and any of the HVAC schedules are programmed to occur at exactly the same time, you may notice that the system does not immediately reflect the new setpoints. (This is referring to the HVAC schedules in the thermostat programming screen, NOT regular timeclock events). The actual HVAC schedule is running properly, but the rest of the system (i.e.mobile app, integration, etc) makes it look like the scheduled events didn’t happen even though theydid. To resolve this issue, avoid having multiple HVAC zones on the same RF link with scheduled events triggering at the exact same time (i.e. stagger them by a minute).


----------



## spiwrx

notek said:


> Speaking of Somfy, anyone here used Somfy Connect, part #1870210? It connects directly to RR2 repeater.


Interesting, Haven't seen that yet. I'll have to see if we can try is net time... 

https://www.somfysystems.com/products/1870210/somfy-connect-lti


----------



## spiwrx

More on the Rollback feature....

To find this feature, go to the Programming Tab, By default it goes to keypads. From the left side drop down where it says Keypads, you'll find a drop down for, timeclocks, thermostats and finally a option labeled "Occupancy". I've only played with it for a few minutes, took me a while just to find it, but you have to enable it per room(?), then you can select the device, set timing, and mess around with the fade time. Pretty self explanatory.


----------



## wkearney99

One other new feature is rollback. This allows you to set a timer for a switch to have it turn off. It's designed for situations like a closet or an exhaust fan. Where you'd want to allow the switch being turned on to automatically start a timer for it to shut itself back off again. This for places where you don't have an occupancy sensor. From what I understand it's designed to be sensitive to any other device activities in the same 'zone'. So if you use another switch in the same 'zone' it'll extend the timer.

I've not used it yet, so I can't comment further. But it looks to be an interesting option, if not the full kind of conditionals some folks might need.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> More on the Rollback feature.....


Heh, posted while I was composing mine.


----------



## wkearney99

Also know that the Connect Bridge support for thermostats and other 3rd party gear is dependent upon using the internet services those provide. As in, through the Bridge, up to the Lutron (Xively) servers, over to the 3rd party and then back to your local device. It's not speaking to the devices directly on the local network. 

This isn't anything unusual, or new, just know that this is what it takes to interface to those.


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> If any of you have been assisted into Inclusive, that option is now gone, you'll have to contact Luton about getting upgraded.


This is incorrect. Here's the link, which only works if you have inclusive access: http://www.lutron.com/en-us/general/Pages/myLutron/RadioRaUpgrade.aspx


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## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> This is incorrect. Here's the link, which only works if you have inclusive access: http://www.lutron.com/en-us/general/Pages/myLutron/RadioRaUpgrade.aspx


I have inclusive, but I get a 404 error when I try that link. However when they migrated everyone to "myLutron" I think some of my credentials didn't come across. I'll have to get with support.


----------



## schalliol

It will show right above the software if you have it, and once you login, if you don't see the screen below, then you don't have it enabled. Of course, the software is the same, so any upgrade itself shouldn't affect the serialization.


----------



## schalliol

Thanks so much for the big report, btw! Can't wait for the Connect Bridge to arrive!


----------



## DMILANI

schalliol said:


> Thanks so much for the big report, btw! Can't wait for the Connect Bridge to arrive!


Looks like the Connect Bridge is shipping, and the IOS app is now available too:

https://forums.lutron.com/showthrea...dioRA2-(and-HW-QS)?p=9140&viewfull=1#post9140


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> It will show right above the software if you have it, and once you login, if you don't see the screen below, then you don't have it enabled. Of course, the software is the same, so any upgrade itself shouldn't affect the serialization.


Interesting, mine doesn't show "Radio Ra Inclusive.." there but when I DL'd V10 it installed as Inclusive.


----------



## schalliol

The one for my home is expected to arrive tomorrow


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> Interesting, mine doesn't show "Radio Ra Inclusive.." there but when I DL'd V10 it installed as Inclusive.


That is because the software is exactly the same, but your install already has the inclusive key. You need Lutron to upgrade your myLutron page to reflect the L2 status for subsequent installations.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> That is because the software is exactly the same, but your install already has the inclusive key. You need Lutron to upgrade your myLutron page to reflect the L2 status for subsequent installations.



I sent a support case in and now the Inclusive upgrade shows. It wasn't there before ??? I wonder if it's single use and will drop again after I use it another time?


----------



## spiwrx

I'm pulling the pre-sale on Monday, if any of you still want to get it in it's still posted, send me an email. 

Our Flat Rate shippers went out yesterday, some of you that opt'd to combine orders should be receiving them any day, they left Lutron Monday & Tuesday. 

Thanks for all you patience & support....


----------



## Swancoat

So, I've been following this connect bridge for a while, and it seems a little awkward. I understand that if Lutron wants to have HomeKit support they need new hardware because it has to have some sort of chip in it. But maybe a new Main Repeater with all of the features in it would be a better route.

The way I understand this, is that if you get the connect bridge, you now have Main Repeater, connected to the network, and ALSO add the Connect bridge... also connected to the network. And the connect bridge connects to Lutron's communications network and has to be 'added' to the system as well. So I have two boxes, each connected to my home network, and each also communicating over ClearConnect or whatever. Ridiculous. The Main repeater basically 'runs' the RA2 system, but despite it's internet connection, you only get things like internet time updating if you use the connect bridge.

And what about the apps... So Home+ I point at the IP for my Main Repeater... if I want to use LutronConnect do I have to point it at the Connect Bridge? I see LutronConnect has widgets (Which are SUPER useful for home lighting). As is the theme here... it seems silly that I would have to buy the connect bridge just to use widgets. (Hopefully I'm wrong there and I can just use the new app with the main repeater, but the description on the app store suggests you need the bridge).

Just seems like so much fragmentation. I would have liked to see Lutron just replace the Main Repeater with a newer one, and one app that supports both the current and the new.


----------



## Swancoat

One question a bit more specific on home screen widgets. Can someone with the bridge and new app tell me if momentary contacts from a VCRX are available in the app (or as widgets). For whatever reason, these are NOT available in the current app (but sustained outputs ARE).

I'm using an app called HomeSense that DOES support the momentary outputs on the VCRX and basically pulling down from the top of the screen and being able to activate my garage door as a widget is very, very useful.


----------



## schalliol

The bridge does more than you're stating. It's not a bad idea really. It's a tiny box that sits on Ethernet (no wi-fi or Clear Connect). It adds capability like a revised main repeater. There however is a problem: https://forums.lutron.com/showthread.php/2192-Major-Connect-Bridge-Problem

On VCRX. I have one in the system I have the bridge in but nothing hooked up to it. Let me know what you want me to test and I will.


----------



## schalliol

L2 upgrade is not for just a single use


----------



## Swancoat

schalliol said:


> The bridge does more than you're stating. It's not a bad idea really. It's a tiny box that sits on Ethernet (no wi-fi or Clear Connect). It adds capability like a revised main repeater. There however is a problem: https://forums.lutron.com/showthread.php/2192-Major-Connect-Bridge-Problem
> 
> On VCRX. I have one in the system I have the bridge in but nothing hooked up to it. Let me know what you want me to test and I will.


I'm just wondering if the VCRX outputs show up in the new app when they are set to 'momentary' (Like a Garage Door Opener), as opposed to 'sustained' (Like a fireplace or something).

In that exact example, using the current app, my fireplace shows up and is accessible in Lutron's app, while the Garage Doors aren't. (The easy workaround would be to just assign that output to one of the VCRX's keypad buttons, but then VCRX keypads don't show up in the app either).


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> So, I've been following this connect bridge for a while, and it seems a little awkward. I understand that if Lutron wants to have HomeKit support they need new hardware because it has to have some sort of chip in it. But maybe a new Main Repeater with all of the features in it would be a better route.
> 
> The way I understand this, is that if you get the connect bridge, you now have Main Repeater, connected to the network, and ALSO add the Connect bridge... also connected to the network. And the connect bridge connects to Lutron's communications network and has to be 'added' to the system as well. So I have two boxes, each connected to my home network, and each also communicating over ClearConnect or whatever. Ridiculous. The Main repeater basically 'runs' the RA2 system, but despite it's internet connection, you only get things like internet time updating if you use the connect bridge.
> 
> And what about the apps... So Home+ I point at the IP for my Main Repeater... if I want to use LutronConnect do I have to point it at the Connect Bridge? I see LutronConnect has widgets (Which are SUPER useful for home lighting). As is the theme here... it seems silly that I would have to buy the connect bridge just to use widgets. (Hopefully I'm wrong there and I can just use the new app with the main repeater, but the description on the app store suggests you need the bridge).
> 
> Just seems like so much fragmentation. I would have liked to see Lutron just replace the Main Repeater with a newer one, and one app that supports both the current and the new.


Yes, there's fragmentation. But the repeaters and the HWQS interfaces are tried-and-true, known quantities. They work and stay working. There's something to be said for not fixing what ain't broke.

That said, it's odd that there are three different 'things' sold in the same plastic box. It really seems dumb to have three different SKUs. It seems like it would make FAR MORE SENSE to just sell one box. If anything, drop the basic Caseta bridge and just ship the Pro. Omitting 3rd party integration just adds to the hassles down the road if/when the customer wants to do more. There's no easy way to 'upgrade' to a new bridge (and their should be).

That same bridge could still be used in a RA2 or HWQS situation, just turn off using the radio built into it in favor of the existing setup. Sure, there'd be the expense of the radio "going to waste" in RA2/HWQS situations but, please, cry me a river when it comes to being penny-wise/pound-foolish and talking about Lutron gear. We're already paying premium prices.

Then there's the glaring reality that the Caseta RF setup is EXACTLY the same setup as RA2. It's just artificially limited by Lutron, presumably out of some antiquated notions regarding protecting their installer market. Meanwhile, a customer that like Lutron stuff enough to WANT TO BUY MORE is going to be faced with the ugly reality of having to RIP OUT all of their Caseta gear and replace it with RA2. Even though the switches could just as easily be added to a RA2 main repeater. Except for the fact that Lutron is arbitrarily preventing this by not having the Caseta device IDs in the RA2 database.

Then let's talk about the somewhat brain-dead parallel track of two different apps. Caseta and RA2/HWQS are using two entirely different apps. Without feature parity. Oddly, the low-end Caseta system has MORE functionality than RA2/HWQS.

Lutron has some fantastic hardware, but their approach to the market is just way out of touch.


----------



## wkearney99

Swancoat said:


> And what about the apps... So Home+ I point at the IP for my Main Repeater... if I want to use LutronConnect do I have to point it at the Connect Bridge? I see LutronConnect has widgets (Which are SUPER useful for home lighting). As is the theme here... it seems silly that I would have to buy the connect bridge just to use widgets. (Hopefully I'm wrong there and I can just use the new app with the main repeater, but the description on the app store suggests you need the bridge).


Correct, you must have a Connect Bridge to use the new app. The old app is, from what I gather, being frozen as 'feature complete'. Anything new is going to happen via the new app and bridge. 

What's not clear is how much can still be communicated on-site from the app to the local hardware without having to transverse through the Xively cloud. As in, what exactly still works regardless of internet connectivity?


----------



## notek

wkearney99 said:


> What's not clear is how much can still be communicated on-site from the app to the local hardware without having to transverse through the Xively cloud. As in, what exactly still works regardless of internet connectivity?


Supposedly, new Connect app is capable of offline, direct-to-connect bridge communications. That is the first thing I'm going to test once my bridge arrives...


----------



## schalliol

notek, I'm not sure that's true, see below for why. I will say that I can change my Honeywell thermostat in app and it changes the Web services. A total lack of awareness by the main repeater connect or any connect devices exists is crazy though.

*All, please check out the following link* I posted on the Lutron forums and see if you have any feedback you'd like to share with Lutron (it monitors those forums) or share here: Major Connect Bridge Problem


----------



## jautor

schalliol said:


> notek, I'm not sure that's true, see below for why. I will say that I can change my Honeywell thermostat in app and it changes the Web services. A total lack of awareness by the main repeater connect or any connect devices exists is crazy though.
> 
> *All, please check out the following link* I posted on the Lutron forums and see if you have any feedback you'd like to share with Lutron (it monitors those forums) or share here: Major Connect Bridge Problem


There can certainly be a difference between how the native RA2 devices operate and how the integration with 3rd party products is accomplished. Very possible that getting the link between the Honeywell thermostat is done service-to-service in the cloud, while talking to RA2 devices can be done locally, and completely off-line. 

So you're probably both right, but talking about a different set of devices...

Jeff


----------



## spiwrx

You guys all have me at a disadvantage. I didn't have any extra in my orders to keep one for myself!! Hopefully you'll all have this ironed out for when I get mine!!!

I need the VCRX functionality mostly, as my pool/spa panel is based on a VCRX. However I'm all ready on a "Virtual" keypad, so as long as they all still exist, I'm fine. 
One of the only reasons I can see to use the VPN is for heating/air, or in in my case the pool/spa. 

Whats gets me, is the momentary should be the default and show up on the app as thats what the VCRX is primarily for! _(Maybe I misunderstood understood you statement)_


----------



## notek

jautor said:


> There can certainly be a difference between how the native RA2 devices operate and how the integration with 3rd party products is accomplished.


Bingo!

Still waiting here on my (backordered) connect...


----------



## schalliol

In another thread, Mike suggested Lutron will be working on some updates (no specifics), and any feedback is great. I think I've made my feedback clear, but perhaps I was a little too enthusiastic about it. Knowing the team is working on expanding the functionality is very helpful.


----------



## trx250r87

I received my bridge yesterday. I can find it in 10.0 essentials but when I use the Lutron Connect app it says I can't connect to the internet.


----------



## Brian Garber

Sorry if this has already been asked, but are there mounting holes on the bottom of the Bridge?


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## spiwrx

Brian Garber said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked, but are there mounting holes on the bottom of the Bridge?


I only have the Caseta bridge here to check but I think (?) it the same case, if so, no. 

When I get one, I'll draw up a something you can 3D print if you like...


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## trx250r87

My bridge does NOT have holes on the bottom just 4 round rubber pads.


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## Brian Garber

trx250r87 said:


> My bridge does NOT have holes on the bottom just 4 round rubber pads.


Ok, thanks for the info. Gonna have to use Command strips to mount it vertically.


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## wkearney99

Brian Garber said:


> Ok, thanks for the info. Gonna have to use Command strips to mount it vertically.


Also note that the bridge requires a wired Ethernet connection. It has no wireless aspect to it. So you could put it anywhere that has a wired network connection. It doesn't have to be near the main repeater. Since the button has to be pressed in order to activate an app you'd probably want to make sure it in a place where the customer can get to it without too much trouble.


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## wkearney99

What RF features does the Connect Bridge have? It must have something, because there's an antenna connected to the circuit board inside.

Anyone had a look-see inside of a Caseta Bridge? I'd be VERY curious to compare the two...


----------



## ksalno

Speaking of Caseta, I was playing around with an Amazon Echo last night and happen to come across an app they have for voice control of a Caseta system. Since I have a Radio RA2, I tried it but it doesn't work with my system. I was surprised that Lutron hasn't released an add-in for RA2, since I understand that Caseta and RA2 are closely related. Why are they leaving us RA2 owners behind?

Karl


----------



## notek

They are working on it. It will take them a while.


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## wkearney99

notek said:


> They are working on it. It will take them a while.


I wouldn't hold my breath on it. They seem to be committed to keeping RA2 & Caseta separate. Even with the confusion that's going to create in the market, and the feature-disparity between the two.


----------



## schalliol

You can't use Home+. You need the new Lutron Connect app.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> You can't use Home+. You need the new Lutron Connect app.


_Can't_, for what? 

The Home+ app continues to work just fine, both on-site and remotely. What you won't get with it is anything more than what it does now. I got the impression it's reached 'feature complete' and won't have any significant updates/changes made to it. But they indicated it WILL continue to work for the foreseeable future.

And right now the tablet version of the Connect app... isn't. It's just the same Home+ app with a new icon.


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## schalliol

My mistake. Agreed on the tablet version. Hopefully they'll update the iOS one to be a modern app.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> My mistake. Agreed on the tablet version. Hopefully they'll update the iOS one to be a modern app.


No worries, it's all new stuff and there's bound to be a few rough spots here and there. I'd like to be cheerful and optimistic about potential updates. I would, really. But holding my breath, I am not.


----------



## A&M 350Z

So I have about 25 Lutron RadioRa2 dimmers installed for about a year. In the last 6 months, I have had 3 RRD-6CLs go out. No electrical surges, whole home surge protection, no other electrical issues, etc. It happens but I just bring it up because Lutron is supposed to be the reliable product and everybody bashes Insteon's reliability. It is a sample of one so may be not that helpful but just a note for those considering. For the record, I am very happy otherwise.


----------



## wkearney99

A&M 350Z said:


> I have had 3 RRD-6CLs go out.


What kind of lighting load did you have on them? What bulbs/fixtures?

What kind of lighting regime? Full on, dimmed to specific level or multiple ranges?

What did Lutron support have to say about the reason for the failures?

I'd be curious to know what might have contributed to them failing. Besides the chance of their being defective, of course. That's always a possibility, for anyone's lighting dimmers.


----------



## SweetSpot

Nearly all of the Lutron dimmer/switch failures we've seen have been from either lightning/surge damage, from overloaded devices running over their maximum rated load, or most often from not properly derating based on their location within a multi-gang installation. We've seen literally dozens of 1000W+ chandelier loads attached to a 600W dimmer that should have been derated to 400W given its center-gang location. Also, while the constant load is nearly always lower with LED lighting, they are much harder on dimming circuits than incandescents due to the large in-rush currents. Most residential electricians simply don't pay attention to the specs or just don't care.


----------



## wkearney99

SweetSpot said:


> Nearly all of the Lutron dimmer/switch failures we've seen have been from either lightning/surge damage, from overloaded devices running over their maximum rated load, or most often from not properly derating based on their location within a multi-gang installation. We've seen literally dozens of 1000W+ chandelier loads attached to a 600W dimmer that should have been derated to 400W given its center-gang location. Also, while the constant load is nearly always lower with LED lighting, they are much harder on dimming circuits than incandescents due to the large in-rush currents. Most residential electricians simply don't pay attention to the specs or just don't care.


I agree regarding improper load/derating issues and electrician ignorance.

Which is why I asked what kind of lighting was on them. I'm not looking to point blame, just to widen the discussion regarding lighting loads and potential impact that has on dimmer setups. Lighting has always had these kinds of complications, at least with regard to dimmers. LED lighting, however, brings along a whole other rats nest of complications.

The best advice I can give anyone considering LED lighting is that if you're "picky" about your lighting then do some research into the LED fixtures you're considering BEFORE you spend your money. They're not all created equal. Honestly,_ neither were incandescent bulbs_; but they tended to be less noticeable visually or less demanding on dimmer requirements. But, oi, did they tend to generate a lot of heat at the dimmer!

Given the LED will fade over time, consider what's going to happen when you need to replace one. IF (and that's a *VERY* big IF) you can find the same element, you'll then be faced with it putting out the 'brand new' level of light, not the faded level coming from your other bulbs. So be prepared to replace all of them at the same time, at least those visible together as a group of lights.

Me, I stayed with halogen incandescent bulbs for all my recessed lighting. I've got two sets of spares for the whole house, to avoid availability problems for a while. For table lamps I've had decent luck with some Cree LED bulbs. At some point I'll find some screw-in LED replacements that give me to the same color temp & light output. Until then I'm happy to be avoiding the bleeding edge of LED/dimmer adventures.


----------



## A&M 350Z

SweetSpot said:


> Nearly all of the Lutron dimmer/switch failures we've seen have been from either lightning/surge damage, from overloaded devices running over their maximum rated load, or most often from not properly derating based on their location within a multi-gang installation. We've seen literally dozens of 1000W+ chandelier loads attached to a 600W dimmer that should have been derated to 400W given its center-gang location. Also, while the constant load is nearly always lower with LED lighting, they are much harder on dimming circuits than incandescents due to the large in-rush currents. Most residential electricians simply don't pay attention to the specs or just don't care.


Not in this case. No surge that I know. I supposed I cant be certain but no other sensitive electronic failures or other signs. There is no need to derate based on maximum load with incadescents. But the dimmers are no where near the maximum as the dimmers are for receptacles with LED bulbs. The loads are mostly full on. Perhaps they aren't playing well with the LEDs. I am using Cree par38 90w equivalent flood, gen 1. Its not a big issue. Electronic components fail. Maybe a bad batch. Who knows. And honestly I didn't bother to send them back. I suppose I should have just for r&d purposes but it was easier just to replace. 

I did try quite a few LED brands before settling on the Cree. I have been happy with their performance and lighting characteristics. I have only had one fail prematurely out of about 25. They did change styles and are now onto gen2 and while they are supposed to be same brightness and color temp (3000k), the replacement is slightly cooler but not really noticeable by anyone but me.


----------



## wkearney99

Given the cost of the switches it would seem a bit extravagant to just toss them aside. That and with up to 8 years warranty coverage it'd likewise be kind of a waste. But it's your time/money. 

That and a call to their 800 number can give you a heads-up on just how well a bulb will work with a given dimmer. The online listing contains only those bulbs that have been test AND that the manufacturer has 'approved for listing'. There are a great many more bulbs they've tested that are not listed. Many more have been tested and found OK, but haven't been approved by the vendor. Sometimes the vendor never responds to Lutron's request. This according to Lutron personnel in classes. They obviously avoid listing failures, because that doesn't help anyone (and invites the vendors lawyers to complain). But they can say things on the phone, both positive and negative regarding others they've encountered. 

I made the comment regarding color and light levels because it's not clear to most folks (and wasn't to me). LED lighting output numbers is a bit of a boondoggle, it seems. Not all devices put out consistent amounts of light over time. This wasn't as noticeable with incandescents. Some lose their output faster than others. So while the element is "still lighting up" it may not be doing so at the original levels.

Yes, as if LED lighting wasn't complicated enough already...


----------



## SweetSpot

A&M 350Z said:


> Not in this case. No surge that I know. I supposed I cant be certain but no other sensitive electronic failures or other signs. *There is no need to derate based on maximum load with incadescents.* But the dimmers are no where near the maximum as the dimmers are for receptacles with LED bulbs. The loads are mostly full on. Perhaps they aren't playing well with the LEDs. I am using Cree par38 90w equivalent flood, gen 1. Its not a big issue. Electronic components fail. Maybe a bad batch. Who knows. And honestly I didn't bother to send them back. I suppose I should have just for r&d purposes but it was easier just to replace.


That is definitely NOT correct. When you remove both fins to center-gang a 6CL the maximum incandescent load is 400W. It is right in the manual: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-225i_ENG.pdf (PG.8)


----------



## wkearney99

A&M 350Z said:


> There is no need to derate based on maximum load with incadescents.


As 'sweet points out, yeah, there is. When you have a dimmer installed in-between others you *do* need to remove the tangs on the sides. As a result of which you're reducing the total amount of heat the dimmer can safely dissipate. Those little metal bits are there to shed heat. A dimmer sandwiched in-between others won't be able to lose that heat as effectively as one alone, or on the end. You wouldn't think it'd matter, but it can. That and no vendor wants to spend the extra money to implement something like that. They do so for a reason. Ignoring the recommended installation procedures raises unnecessary risks (like FIRE). But you know this, of course, and have seen it being ignored a lot. 

This matters less with the lower wattage LEDs, but then you're up against the startup current demands and overall LED performance/interaction issues. Trouble is the vendors do not make this information easy to find. Thus the value of CALLING LUTRON to ask.

I'm not trying to be pedantic here. A lot of other people are going to come along and read these posts. A few may learn something new along the way. Following proper design and installation guidelines is IMPORTANT for dimmers. LEDs only makes it even more complicated.


----------



## schalliol

6CLs have no fins.


----------



## CSO

schalliol said:


> 6CLs have no fins.


Fins or not, the instructions specify derating in multi gang applications. I assume derating is a heat thing.


----------



## schalliol

This is correct. Just offering the info that they don't have fins.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> This is correct. Just offering the info that they don't have fins.


Just to clarify, though I don't think it plays into your problem.... 

99% sure most of the late model RR2 devices are "tab-less". 

De-rating should _*not be*_ ignored, regardless of dimmer type, even your every day dial dimmer. Problems from improper De-rating are typically reduced life or immediate dimmer failure. 

More LED & Dimmer ad nauseam babbling.... 

Almost Industry standard now, that most devices can handle 25% of their incandescent rating in LED loads. (However there are a lot more factors at play for LED) Example: Typical Incandescent Dimmer is 600watt, but only 150w in LED, the reason is In-Rush current of the LED's. You may do some item specific research that will allow you to do more or less. 

Most important thing you can focus on when considering LED dimming is the dimmer type & minimum load requirement(s). 

This thread is for Radio Ra 2 and RR2 is considered a "smart dimmer" in that it can fade on and fade off, and may have some other programmable features. Others make similar smart or fading controls. Most of them have some sequence of indicators on the dimmer. Regardless of make these type of dimmers typically have a minimum load requirements, somewhere in the neighborhood of 50-60watts. With LED you can easily have less than this on a dimmer. So we have in the past used neutral connected ELV dimmer, because they typically have a 5-10watt minimum. More passive type dimmers like rotary(dial) and slider types, have no minimum. 

Also, if you are buying the cheapest LED's on the market, be prepared to buy the most expensive dimmer to control them in most cases. Also you are opening your self up to lamps noise, & RF interference problems. Additionally, some of the cheaper stuff can also cause line noise which may have ill-effect on AFCI breakers. 

*Incandescent:* Actual filament based lamp, run directly on line voltage. _(not to be confused with newer "filament LED", these LED types are still diodes that look similar to filaments.) 

_*C-L Dimmer* (aka *LED Dimmer*)_: _This is perhaps the biggest misnomer_. _If you just sent someone to the store for an LED dimmer this is likely what they would return with. This is basically an incandescent dimmer with some tweaks for dimming (dimmable) fluorescent lamps and LED lamps. But it only covers some LED loads. Some of these lamps work fine on incandescent dimmer, some will only work with MLV, or ELV rated dimmers. _(sorry, you have to do the homework)_ This type of dimmer typically has some sort of trim adjustment so you can dial in the lowest stable setting for whatever LED you have, as most LEDs will flicker or shut down when you go to low. This should not be used for ELV or MLV loads. It may work, but at your own risk of damaging the dimmer, driver and/or LED. This dimmer was intended for screw in dimmable replacement fluorescent & LED lamps. It also works well with most retro LED can trims. It's commonly, & incorrectly, applied LED strips or tape light, which commonly use a magnetic based driver, requiring MLV dimmer. 

*MLV: M*agnetic *L*ow* V*oltage. This is pretty much anything that is run on a magnetic based transformer, typically recessed cans w/ MR16's, some under-cabinet, landscape, some rail and fewer track systems. This also now includes "drivers" used commonly for LED strips. 

*ELV: E*lectronic *L*ow* V*oltage. (_aka neutral dimmer, because it requires a neutral connection_). This is most current Track lights, A lot of integral driven low voltage under-cabinet, some "noise free" recessed Low Voltage cans. It should be noted, in many cases applying MLV to and ELV only dimmer may cause irreversible damage to the dimmer. 

*Adaptive/Universal: *There are a few companies making "Adaptive" or "Universal" dimmers. Which are usually rated for all of the above. 

*0-10v - ELV Hybrid*: SOME (read the spec's) higher end lighting drivers have an LED driver that can be used with ELV_* or*_ 0-10v. In this case the 0-10v usually gets you better range and control. However some of the nicer stuff today can sometimes get to 1% on ELV. 

*0-10v: *Most commercial (modern) LED fixtures are 0-10v controlled. Some older drivers, as well as some fluorescent, This is also a commercial control type often used for motor speed and heating applications. If you have 0-10v there are 2 additional (smaller) low voltage (10vdc) control wires as well as your line voltage wiring. In some cases certain 0-10v fixtures may require a "power pack" (relay) to turn off, others will shut off at 0vdc. 

*Fluorescent: *Not going to get to deep into this one as there are at least 3 sub-categories of Fluorescent Dimmers, 2-wire, 3-wire, 5-wire, 0-10v, digital....

Here are my 2 simple rules for LED selection:


 Make sure the LED fixture or Lamp is labeled dimmable
 Go the the manufacturers website and find their recommended dimmer list or compatibility chart.
If you can't easily find that information, it should be a big red flag. Even if you are only switching, motion controlled or using a timer, you may still have some minimum load issues and noise related problems. 



Now, I did not say you couldn't have problems from a more reputable brand, but your odds are better. 



Even before LED lighting, we had minimum load problems with smart dimmers, it's just now easy to be in that range. 



Also, we have always had several dimmer types and they are commonly misapplied out of ignorance or budget. Just because "it works" doesn't mean it's right. You car will run on leaded fuel also, what it does to your catalytic converter that you don't see is a problem that pops up later down the road...


----------



## spiwrx

Just an FYI, the Cree lamp is 18watts, so you can only use a maximum of 8pcs on a RR2 CL Dimmer without de-rating. If you have more, you could try the 10ND which should get you to 250w of LED


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## freeoscar

I'm about to do an install in my new renovation/addition consisting of about 30 load bearing dimmers/switches (mostly CL) and another 10 or so keypads. My electrician will be installing all the equipment and I'll be doing the programming. Out of curiosity, roughly how much do you think this would cost if I did this straight from a RR2 installer?


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## spiwrx

freeoscar said:


> I'm about to do an install in my new renovation/addition consisting of about 30 load bearing dimmers/switches (mostly CL) and another 10 or so keypads. My electrician will be installing all the equipment and I'll be doing the programming. Out of curiosity, roughly how much do you think this would cost if I did this straight from a RR2 installer?


You'll likely see quite a range of answers. Programming being very open ended in terms of what you want, so that will be your biggest variable. Installation, Programming and Equipment locally (S. California) would likely be around $8k-$9k. You have somewhere between $5k-$6k in parts _(+ any additional, wire, boxes switch plates you may have to add) _+ Your local going rate for an electrician to install 40 devices (?? $600-$1000 ??) + Programming (Min. 6hrs for a proficient programmer $125/hr _~~~ likely more like 8-12hrs depending on keypad redundancy_) + taxes.

We can argue numbers but this is just my guess based on my almost 20yrs experience in the industry, and admittedly in a high rent market. However you material costs should be pretty close_(depending on model specifics)_, regardless. Labor & programming will vary greatly from market to market. Many A/V installers locally just charge you list price, Electrician may charge a discounted list price. 

What people never consider when purchasing material through and installer is their time to order, pick up and deliver. You should allow them some margin on material, some additional hour(s) for that, or some other compensation for figuring out your specific B.O.M. and procuring it for you. It is an additional service they provide that's behind the scenes. Likewise any warranty falls on them, not you. Which in turn is likely more time out of their pocket for replacement and not yours.


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## spiwrx

freeoscar said:


> I'm about to do an install in my new renovation/addition consisting of about 30 load bearing dimmers/switches (mostly CL) and another 10 or so keypads.....


If you are doing 30 dimmers I would get at least 3-4 RRD-6NA and perhaps a couple of RRD-10ND dimmers to cover any problematic loads. It's cheaper to pay a little more up front & move things around, than figure it out later and likely have a non-returnable dimmer. Any locations with just a couple lamps I would definitely address. Also, some of the LED may require ELV dimming which is a 6NA in RR2.


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## Brian Garber

What I don't get is how a 6NA works fairly well with Cree (BA19-11027OMF-12DE26-1U100) LED bulbs, but a 6CL is very problematic. Unfortunately what I'm finding is that Lutron tech support wants to send you right to the LED product selection tool, but the problem with that is that the tool seems very outdated. So, what's the answer? Try different types of switches with different types of loads until something works? 

I guess I'm going to try changing the load. I'll try using Philips bulbs, but of course all of the LED bulbs listed on the Lutron site are all outdated. Ok... rant off.


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## freeoscar

spiwrx said:


> If you are doing 30 dimmers I would get at least 3-4 RRD-6NA and perhaps a couple of RRD-10ND dimmers to cover any problematic loads. It's cheaper to pay a little more up front & move things around, than figure it out later and likely have a non-returnable dimmer. Any locations with just a couple lamps I would definitely address. Also, some of the LED may require ELV dimming which is a 6NA in RR2.


Yes - I am currently designing the system in the software (did the Essentials training). Since we are re-doing virtually everything in the house we did a lighting plan so I know what the load types and sizes are for each location and am using the switches/dimmers to appropriately match with the load they will control. For example, I do have some 6NA, for example to control the driver for the undercabinet tape lights, and a 10ND for the 750W (incandescent) dining room chandelier.

Would love opinions on good system design: One of the attractions of an automated system is to reduce the number of paddles in the house - it drives me crazy to see a wall of paddles. At the primary entrance to a space I am planning to have the load controlled by a paddle - it's natural and of course easiest when entering a dark space to have a tactile control. But to reduce the number of paddles I am planning to use the keypads in place of the RD-RD for secondary locations which are at a junction where I would otherwise have multiple companion switches for adjacent rooms. Do you think this is a good idea, or might it be confusing to other users who aren't as familiar with a lighting keypad?

Thanks for all your feedback


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## spiwrx

freeoscar said:


> ...Would love opinions on good system design: One of the attractions of an automated system is to reduce the number of paddles in the house - it drives me crazy to see a wall of paddles....


If you have the option (new home / major remodel) of moving switch boxes around, this is where we start putting the actual load bearing dimmers in closets, garage, pantry, attic, basement, equipment room, etc... and just place keypads in common and egress areas. For me if there are 1-2 switches I may leave that alone, if there are 3 or more in an area I will suggest to remote locate them and instead use a keypad. If you are retrofitting an existing home, 3-way locations are idea for placing keypads, and program the 3-way functionality to one of the buttons.


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## wkearney99

It's a toss up trying to eliminate 'wall acne' versus making the system annoying during everyday use.

This is your existing house, right? And you've been in there long enough to have a good feel for how you regularly use lighting? If so, that's good, that means you'll be able to better predict how you'd really want to control the lighting. When it's new construction that's harder to accomplish.

From personal experience, keypads are not ideal for everyday "give me light now" actions. The buttons are just too slim. For everyday use I find it's a lot less annoying to have buttons the size of a 3BRL Pico instead of the regular keypads. The problem with keypad buttons is you end up having to LOOK AT THEM to use them, and that's not really all that natural. 

So it's been my advice that for the first switch position it's more natural to use a regular full-size dimmer. This way anyone coming into the space can reach for the switch and get the 'intended' main lighting for that switch location. It's a safety thing, too. Guests, service personnel, etc, will all be able to get lighting without being confused.

With the advent of Pico integration I lean toward using them more often in situations where a companion dimmer often gets used. The remote dimmers provide nothing more than a single dimmer control. With a 3BRL Pico you get the same kind of dimming control, but also have the option to tie in other lighting loads. One annoyance is the system doesn't allow for using the individual Pico buttons as toggles. They're 'one action only'. So a button press is only going to perform one thing (which can be triggering scenes). But you can't tap it again to reverse the action. I mention this not as a complaint but as a design issue to be aware of and to plan around.

There are ways to avoid the row of dimmers scenario. Things like a Grafik Eye QS allow concentrating up to 6 loads into one wall unit. Or there's the other option of putting the dimmers 'somewhere else' and using other controls for them. Going that route takes a bit more planning, but may be worth considering.

So it boils down to you really want to think about how everyday control over the lighting is going to be used. This for each room/area AND _each and every_ control location.

Also know that Lutron Claro wall plates can also be engraved. You can have each position engraved above the opening. This can help deal with the row-of-dimmers confusion.

Keypad/Pico engraving is one of those things that often benefits from waiting until you use the spaces with automated switches. Sometimes your initial planning for a space doesn't really fit with how you end up wanting to control it. I'm more than a year into the house and still haven't gotten all mine engraved yet. I'm close though, only a few spaces that have gotten new furniture and lighting elements are still 'in flux' with regard to keypads and scene programming.


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## wkearney99

Another set of things to consider is resale value and retrofit scenarios.

If you plan wiring (in a traditional way) based on no automation you're pretty much guaranteed to be 'future proof' as automation systems change over time. So if you have a 3-way wiring circuit, keep with it even if you know you might use a wireless control there instead. This also applies to situations where controls are hidden, especially if they're not using regular AC wiring. Hiding RA2 dimmers still uses regular wiring, so that's good. 

Just think about whether a fixation on hiding things is going to have a negative impact on resale value. 

Home automation on anything less than a large custom home/mansion can have an actual negative impact on home value. It's gotten less-worse in recent years, as some past automation systems were quite oddball. But put yourself in the shoes of a prospective buyer coming to look at your house. Just how comforted are they going to be when they see how the lighting is controlled? Just food for thought...


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## freeoscar

I completely agree on the (negative) value of many automated setups. Right now the walls are all open and I have a decent sized wiring closet where I could locate all the load controls and then just have wireless controls for the actual controls. And I would love the look (and the wife would get used to it). But I know that life throws curveballs, and I could be out of the house sooner than I think, in which case it would likely be a negative. Plus it's not such a high end home that buyers would expect to have a system which might require professional programming, etc. If I leave I can give them the option of keeping the main controller (and automation) or ditching it and using the controls as dumb ones (albeit nice, lutron ones - which is another reason I like RR2 vs. the more DIY systems like insteon or UPB which, imo, look cheap).

This is another question I have - and I suppose it is really for the electrician. If I just put in keypads for the 'remote' dimmer control, can he put in some sort of capped carrier (blue wire) wires in that location so that if I hated the keypads or a future buyer wanted to go back to traditional controls I could easily replace the keypad with a gang of RD-RDs, rather than have to open up the walls again to feed carrier lines to the RD-RDs? I.E. can I pre-wire the carrier lines, or would that effectively leave a live load in the wall (certainly not advisable or legal)?

My thoughts (though I'll hold off for awhile on the actual engraving) is to go with the 3 button spaced model (RRD‑W3BSRL) in some of those areas to make it a little easier for guests to use them.


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## wkearney99

Right, wire up the 3-ways as if they were regular ones, with traditional, non-automated switches.

Side note: make sure ALL WALL SWITCH BOXES HAVE A NEUTRAL. Do not let them set anything up with only a switch leg. Neutral, in ALL switch boxes. Otherwise it'll be a pain trying to use automated switches in them in the future.

Without seeing a circuit plan (floorplan, but with the wiring circuits laid out) it's impossible to say what would or wouldn't be the best ways to arrange it. 

Consider starting a new thread for just this, as the questions would eventually get a little complicated and it probably deserves it's own thread.


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## wkearney99

wkearney99 said:


> Anyone had a look-see inside of a Caseta Bridge? I'd be VERY curious to compare the two...


OK, so now I have both a Connect Bridge and a Smart Bridge Pro.

From a look inside they appear to be EXACTLY the same hardware. Same part numbers on the circuit boards, same CPU. One could definitely form the opinion that the only thing differentiating them is the firmware. Basically the same box but being sold at a premium merely because they can. Meanwhile, the premium price is buying hardware that's had it's RF equipment disabled. So you're paying more and getting less.


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## dgage

But my guess is we can't change the firmware to "upgrade"?


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## notek

wkearney99 said:


> From a look inside they appear to be EXACTLY the same hardware. Same part numbers on the circuit boards, same CPU.


Were you able to locate/identify HomeKit chip which supposedly is missing on Connect bridge?


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## Neurorad

wkearney99 said:


> OK, so now I have both a Connect Bridge and a Smart Bridge Pro.
> 
> From a look inside they appear to be EXACTLY the same hardware. Same part numbers on the circuit boards, same CPU. One could definitely form the opinion that the only thing differentiating them is the firmware. Basically the same box but being sold at a premium merely because they can. Meanwhile, the premium price is buying hardware that's had it's RF equipment disabled. So you're paying more and getting less.


I have also struggled with this concept for years.

It helps to realize that prices of items are uncommonly based solely on physical value - the cost of the parts. Much more importantly, the price depends what people are willing to pay. Top of the line smartphones are $500, and the cheap ones are $50. Is there really a $450 difference in parts? It's like that for luxury items especially.

I'm not saying it's right, but that's the way it works. Companies charge what they can.


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## schalliol

If you read Lutron's statement, SmartBridge Pro for Caseta has WiFi and HomeKit capability, while the RA2 version has neither. Apparently WiFi may be in there and not enabled, but they suggest perhaps there's no chip compatible with HomeKit.


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## SweetSpot

You'll find the same situation with today's multi-core processors. For example, a generation of Intel Core series processors will all use the same die and all of the chips are identical during manufacturing--regardless of price or model--Intel simply physically disables additional cores to fit each chip into it's product matrix. Other features like hyperthreading, etc are enabled/disabled in microcode.


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## notek

SweetSpot said:


> You'll find the same situation with today's multi-core processors. For example, a generation of Intel Core series processors will all use the same die and all of the chips are identical during manufacturing--regardless of price or model--Intel simply physically disables additional cores to fit each chip into it's product matrix.


It's a bit more complicated than that though. Quality among identical processors cut from the same matrix is not identical. So they use the "binning" process - they test the processors and separate them into good / better / best piles and sell as such.


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## notek

*Connect Local Access*

Played around with my new Connect bridge. Good news: local access (with no internet available) works just fine.

Bad news: all communication between connect bridge and application is happening over SSH. That means until and unless someone cracks the key, there are not going to be any third party integrations possible with Connect bridge.


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## schalliol

BTW, I spec'd mostly 6NAs but actually have found a number of Cree LEDs work better on 6CLs even if it's below the minimum rating. Why, I'm not sure.


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## bpfunk

Anyone have any tips to get the new connect found in essentials? I can see it on my dhcp table but just can't seem to find in design tab.


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## spiwrx

bpfunk said:


> Anyone have any tips to get the new connect found in essentials? I can see it on my dhcp table but just can't seem to find in design tab.


I don't have essentials, but you have to be on at least version 10, and it should be enabled from the title page.


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## notek

spiwrx said:


> I don't have essentials, but you have to be on at least version 10, and it should be enabled from the title page.


Former is correct, latter is not. It can be added to any existing project. Go to the first (design) tab, select a room, then add a new device location, and select Connect from the list of devices. Then go through the find process, and then Transfer.


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## bpfunk

notek said:


> Former is correct, latter is not. It can be added to any existing project. Go to the first (design) tab, select a room, then add a new device location, and select Connect from the list of devices. Then go through the find process, and then Transfer.




I got that far but for whatever reason it can't be found on my network in lutrons search. I get an IP address via DHCP. Would it work via direct connect like with the main repeater?


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## lbow

Any suggestions on what recessed housings to put in new construction? We need around 90 total and I can't quite figure out which ones to go with. I'm planning to use radiora2 to the high traffic areas.

* Edison Base ~$10/each
* Halo H750ICAT, I think this is a halo connector ~$10/each
* Cree RC6-GU24
* Other? 

I'm not sure I want to spend the money to put led trims in all 90 cans unless i can accurately predict the costs. It looks like led trims range from ~$12 to > 40.


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## FlyingDiver

My builder used the Halo H750ICAT, as I recall. Didn't use LED trims as we installed TCP LED10BR30D30K BR30 bulbs which didn't need a special trim. At the time we selected those TCP bulbs, they were on Lutron's approved list. They no longer are, but it was too late for our install. No problems except for one fixture which seems to be getting bleed power from other dimmers in the WPM it's connected to (when the other dimmers are on). Personally, I think this is a problem with that specific WPM as I have others configured similarly which don't have the same problem.


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## freeoscar

I'm similarly choosing downlights for new construction. What is the advantage of trims vs. bulbs?


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## bombertodd

I purchased these from Lowe's for my nine Halo can lights. They look nice and have worked great for a little over a year now. They dim pretty low too.


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## lbow

FlyingDiver said:


> My builder used the Halo H750ICAT, as I recall.


I thought H750ICAT was the led only. After thinking about it I will likely get edison base cans so that there is a larger selection and options with bulb + trim or led trim. Thanks


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## FlyingDiver

lbow said:


> I thought H750ICAT was the led only. After thinking about it I will likely get edison base cans so that there is a larger selection and options with bulb + trim or led trim. Thanks


I think you're right. Not sure where I got that number from. I think he actually used H7UICAT for the locations with 6" fixtures and H1499IC for the 4" fixtures.


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## blkicevic

I just purchased/ordered 12 Serena Palette Translucent Roller Shades with the 4 group remote and a Smart Bridge Pro for Simple Control (roomie). I understand that all shades must be within a 30' radius of the smart bridge. I have 1 shade that is around 40' away. Will I need to add another bridge in order to communicate and use it with the app as well as Homekit and Alexa?


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## FlyingDiver

I'd just try it first. Lutron's 30' metric is very conservative. It'll probably work fine.


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## JT Babin

blkicevic said:


> I just purchased/ordered 12 Serena Palette Translucent Roller Shades with the 4 group remote and a Smart Bridge Pro for Simple Control (roomie). I understand that all shades must be within a 30' radius of the smart bridge. I have 1 shade that is around 40' away. Will I need to add another bridge in order to communicate and use it with the app as well as Homekit and Alexa?



It'll be fine in regular wood/drywall construction.


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## bpfunk

bpfunk said:


> Anyone have any tips to get the new connect found in essentials? I can see it on my dhcp table but just can't seem to find in design tab.




Ended up getting this to work the same way I had to do with the main repeater. Direct connect into the computer. Not sure why I always have this issue with lutron products...firewall I suppose. Works fine over network after activation.


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## spiwrx

blkicevic said:


> I just purchased/ordered 12 Serena Palette Translucent Roller Shades with the 4 group remote and a Smart Bridge Pro for Simple Control (roomie). I understand that all shades must be within a 30' radius of the smart bridge. I have 1 shade that is around 40' away. Will I need to add another bridge in order to communicate and use it with the app as well as Homekit and Alexa?


It was mentioned already, but 40' should be fine. Unfortunately you are stuck and one of the reasons to avoid Caseta for more than a room, studio or very small home/apt.condo. There is no Aux Repeater in Caseta and I don't believe
you can add an extra bridge. 

On another note, if you are doing shades + Caseta we have another inconsistent lutron-ism. Standard Caseta Bridge only works with Serena RF, with no upgrade path. The Casta Pro Bridge can see both Serena + QS shades. If you plan on doing Shades + Caseta I would recommend the Pro-Bridge plus QS shades. That way if you get stuck you could replace the Caseta with RR2 or other QS system and not have to replace the shades also. 

If I didn't mention it already in a previous rant, the Caseta is Cool & easy in function and if you like the style, great. But it was not meant to be a whole home system.


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## zoro

I have been promised by my HD dealer that they can integrate HD with Lutron but so far no help


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## wkearney99

zoro said:


> I have been promised by my HD dealer that they can integrate HD with Lutron but so far no help


Is your HD dealer already a Lutron dealer? If so then they'd know there is no way to integrate the two. At least not without using something ($$$) from a 3rd party. Otherwise the dealer doesn't know what they're talking about, which is typical for salespeople...

I have both, RA2 and HD PowerView and, honestly, there's not much need to actually integrate them. Each has their strengths. HD's remote for shades is actually more versatile than Lutron's Pico units. But then Lutron has 'modes' for their automation schedules and PowerView does not offer that. I'd very much like to have a way to trigger more than one kind of mode, especially one that had the ability to randomize execution times for a security mode.


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## spiwrx

I had a new problem present it self with the remote mounting of some switches, I do not want to shed light on the exact use, because I don't agree with the installation and don't want to promote the purpose. However the solution open my eyes to something I thought might be useful to share if you haven't already figured it out. 

The problem is this: We have 3 switches that need to come on in a certain sequence. If they do not, damage to the controlled equipment could occur _(no fatal problem, specific injury or fire, but it would damage a few hundred dollars worth of equipment if operated incorrectly) _So we can set up scenes on a keypad to handle the sequence, we can play with the timing and delay, so from a keypad it really reduces the risk to almost nothing. However, if they get in the APP they could independently control the switches and in the wrong order, wreck the equipment. 

Well, turns out you can disable (dis-enable) the switches from being controlled in the APP from the Settings>Integration Settings > ID's tab. I haven't tested, but apparently, if not "enabled" it will be inoperable from the APP, or possibly excluded from the APP altogether. Again I haven't tested it, but if it removes it from the APP, you could really use it to clean up things up in the APP. Additionally, it would be nice if you could restrict devices by user, but it doesn't look likes that's possible or at least not obvious.


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## dragonian

Another year, another bathroom remodel. Except this time, there seems like there could be more options.

Does the "rollback" feature work well enough to use for a bathroom fan?
Are the Hybrid CL Keypads actually available? I think i saw one listed on ebay, but not sure if it was for real. This could open up more options.

I really just want 3 loads (shower, vanity, and fan).
I would prefer to have 2 switches on the wall, but would settle for 3.
I'd like to have one main switch for the vanity (for ease and guests), and either a keypad or 4 button pico.

It will be a full gut, so I'm thinking that I can route the dimmer for the shower hidden in the vanity. 
If the rollback works, then I could also put the fan switch there too (otherwise i'll need the standalone countdown timer in an accessible place)


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## rapamatic

dragonian said:


> Another year, another bathroom remodel. Except this time, there seems like there could be more options.
> 
> Does the "rollback" feature work well enough to use for a bathroom fan?
> Are the Hybrid CL Keypads actually available? I think i saw one listed on ebay, but not sure if it was for real. This could open up more options.
> 
> I really just want 3 loads (shower, vanity, and fan).
> I would prefer to have 2 switches on the wall, but would settle for 3.
> I'd like to have one main switch for the vanity (for ease and guests), and either a keypad or 4 button pico.
> 
> It will be a full gut, so I'm thinking that I can route the dimmer for the shower hidden in the vanity.
> If the rollback works, then I could also put the fan switch there too (otherwise i'll need the standalone countdown timer in an accessible place)


Rollback hasn't been working 100% for me - I've been testing it in a coat closet, and sometimes it just doesn't work...

For a vent fan, I think it would be ok. I wouldn't use it for lights in a bathroom though.

For a bathroom with guests, I think a motion/vacancy sensor would be better. Imagine guest 1 comes in, turns on lights (and activates, say, a 15 min rollback)... they do their thing, and leave without turning off the lights. 10 minutes later guest 2 comes in, lights are on, and he starts doing his thing, but then the 15 min rollback activates and guest 2 is left sitting in the dark... Not an ideal situation, especially in a powder room that may not have natural light from windows.


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## dragonian

rapamatic said:


> For a vent fan, I think it would be ok. I wouldn't use it for lights in a bathroom though.
> 
> For a bathroom with guests, I think a motion/vacancy sensor would be better. Imagine guest 1 comes in, turns on lights (and activates, say, a 15 min rollback)... they do their thing, and leave without turning off the lights. 10 minutes later guest 2 comes in, lights are on, and he starts doing his thing, but then the 15 min rollback activates and guest 2 is left sitting in the dark... Not an ideal situation, especially in a powder room that may not have natural light from windows.


Yeah, I think it would be only for the vent fan, I don't think I would use it for the lights. It's for a main bath anyways.


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## rapamatic

dragonian said:


> Yeah, I think it would be only for the vent fan, I don't think I would use it for the lights. It's for a main bath anyways.


In that case I would think it would work fine. 

Might be a good idea to turn off the fan if you have a 2:00 am all-off schedule or something like that just as a backup... New bath fans are pretty quiet (especially the inline ones - I put one of those in my master bath, and all you can hear is a faint rush of air near the vents) so you might not hear it if its accidentally left on and rollback doesn't activate for some reason...


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> The 4 Button Pico comes in some variations, but it seems the 4th (bottom) button is reserved for "All Off" in all cases, making at best a 3 scene + All Off. Still a pretty clean unit.


 If I'm understanding this correctly, the 4th button HAS to turn off ALL lights programmed as part of the other 3 buttons. i.e I wanted to leave the bath fan on a rollback delay, even though I hit the off button for the lights.


----------



## wkearney99

dragonian said:


> Another year, another bathroom remodel. Except this time, there seems like there could be more options.
> 
> Does the "rollback" feature work well enough to use for a bathroom fan?
> Are the Hybrid CL Keypads actually available? I think i saw one listed on ebay, but not sure if it was for real. This could open up more options.
> 
> I really just want 3 loads (shower, vanity, and fan).
> I would prefer to have 2 switches on the wall, but would settle for 3.
> I'd like to have one main switch for the vanity (for ease and guests), and either a keypad or 4 button pico.
> 
> It will be a full gut, so I'm thinking that I can route the dimmer for the shower hidden in the vanity.
> If the rollback works, then I could also put the fan switch there too (otherwise i'll need the standalone countdown timer in an accessible place)


Rollback seems to work. I've got two closets that use it. You set it such that it times out and performs the rollback scene when none of the devices in the room have been used. 

However, I have motion sensors in two bathrooms likely used for guests. One has a fan/light on a 8ANS switch (dumb electrician didn't wire it for them individually). The other fans I have on non-RA2 timer switches. I like those as they let me tailor the run-time of the fan. The sensors work great. I used 3M picture hanging strips (sorta like velcro) to find the idea location for them. The key being to angle them such that incidental traffic outside the bath isn't tripping them all the time.

I don't like to hide controls or make things un-obvious to people using a shared space like a bathroom. I generally try to avoid torturing guests by making them try to decipher tiny writing on buttons. So I'd lean toward making sure the 'primary reason' they use switches is on the paddle dimmer. As in, reach for lighting and hit the big thing, not tiny buttons.


----------



## wkearney99

dragonian said:


> If I'm understanding this correctly, the 4th button HAS to turn off ALL lights programmed as part of the other 3 buttons. i.e I wanted to leave the bath fan on a rollback delay, even though I hit the off button for the lights.


Nope, the 4th button can be programmed as you like. 

You could have something turned on using the others and not have it as part of the 4th button's off. Whether or not that'd make sense is another question. My single biggest irritation with the Pico and RA2 is not being able to use them as toggles. VERY, VERY ANNOYING! They're 'scene' controls. So anything you can set up in a scene can be tied to a Pico button (save for the raise/lower ones on a 3BRL). Scenes can be on, off, combinations of which, with varying delays or fade times.


----------



## dragonian

wkearney99 said:


> I don't like to hide controls or make things un-obvious to people using a shared space like a bathroom. I generally try to avoid torturing guests by making them try to decipher tiny writing on buttons. So I'd lean toward making sure the 'primary reason' they use switches is on the paddle dimmer. As in, reach for lighting and hit the big thing, not tiny buttons.


Understood.. This bathroom isn't really that guest heavy other than once or so a year my mother visits. I was already planning on have the main light for the vanity being a normal toggle easy to hit. That way you can easily get light with no thought. The keypad would be mostly for me/wife to have a scene for the shower, and a nightlight option.



wkearney99 said:


> My single biggest irritation with the Pico and RA2 is not being able to use them as toggles. VERY, VERY ANNOYING! They're 'scene' controls.


I think I would be ok with scenes.. the bath fan is the only one that would be nice for a toggle. Still trying to decide its better to integrate the bath fan, or go back to the old standby (MA-T51MN).


----------



## wkearney99

dragonian said:


> Understood.. This bathroom isn't really that guest heavy other than once or so a year my mother visits. I was already planning on have the main light for the vanity being a normal toggle easy to hit. That way you can easily get light with no thought. The keypad would be mostly for me/wife to have a scene for the shower, and a nightlight option.
> 
> I think I would be ok with scenes.. the bath fan is the only one that would be nice for a toggle. Still trying to decide its better to integrate the bath fan, or go back to the old standby (MA-T51MN).


I used those exact timers for my fans. Rollback wasn't an option at all when I spec'd this setup. That and I actually like the way the time can be adjusted on the switch itself. 

I get more use out of a 3BRL Pico. Top button is one light, middle is another, arrows up/down handle a third and bottom turns them all off. This way I can bring up the main cans (top), slide up the spots (rarely used), turn on an accent lamp (middle), or turn the whole batch off. Makes for a nice remote when done in Black with a single pedestal. The same could kind of be done with 4B but without raise/lower options. None of these eliminates the need for the actual controls being somewhere else nearby, it's just a handy additional (and low cost) add-on.

But I'd very much like to have all four buttons be usable for a toggle scene, without any off as the buttons would, y'now, toggle the lights in the scenes.


----------



## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> Nope, the 4th button can be programmed as you like.....
> My single biggest irritation with the Pico and RA2 is not being able to use them as toggles. VERY, VERY ANNOYING! They're 'scene' controls. So anything you can set up in a scene can be tied to a Pico button (save for the raise/lower ones on a 3BRL). Scenes can be on, off, combinations of which, with varying delays or fade times.


Should I even tell you Bill, there is a 4Button Toggle, but HomeWorks only.... The Regular Pico for RR2 has 4th Button "Off" as a default. But remember, as Bill explained, http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369847.pdfit's a "Scene" and a Scene could be any level but you're stuck with the "Off" Icon or do a custom engraved version.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> ...there is a 4Button Toggle, but HomeWorks only....


Yes, well, there's also conditional programming and more with HWQS.  But then all the switches are even more expensive.  

It's disappointing how Lutron has basically done NOTHING for lighting since their founder's passing.


----------



## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> Yes, well, there's also conditional programming and more with HWQS.  But then all the switches are even more expensive.
> 
> It's disappointing how Lutron has basically done NOTHING for lighting since their founder's passing.


http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeBuildingSystems/Vive/Overview.aspx

Being likened to RR2 for Commercial Lighting Control, Not really for Homeowners, but it's huge for our commercial side....


----------



## spiwrx

I meant to chime in on the rollback / (countdown timer). I have in in my pantry and my kids rooms working flawlessly. Just remember if the switch/dimmer is sent any command during the rollback (even if it doesn't change state) hypothetically it should reset the rollback. Additionally I have rumors of recent RR2 versions not playing well with older windows versions. Specifically we had some 0-10v modules controlling some quartz heaters for outdoor heating. We built the control panel, tested and programmed it here, however the electrician installed and added some other RR2 devices. When he did, his older laptop did what it was supposed to do in terms of adding, programing transferring, however somewhere in the mix it made the LMJ module would only got to 5v at 100%(instead of 10v). Finally he was forced to do the Windows 10 update then everything fell in place and worked properly. I do not know what older windows version he had.


----------



## spiwrx

Good News to those of you with connect's looks like they just added support for Alexa and Sonos (Sonos labeled Pico's and Keypads). Gives hope for Homekit, but no word yet... 

http://business.lutron.info/e/119222/-Brochure-FALL-HiRes-Pages-pdf/359wqr/771276998


----------



## Ziba Ji

is there a monthly charge to run lutron app/programming?


----------



## lalawyer

There is no charge to use the app on your home network. There is a yearly charge for remote access. Only certified programmers can access the software to program RR2 systems.


----------



## freeoscar

lalawyer said:


> There is no charge to use the app on your home network. There is a yearly charge for remote access. Only certified programmers can access the software to program RR2 systems.


This is partially correct.  For users of the older Lutron Home+ app you pay a fee for remote access.  If your system has the Connect Bridge, then the associated Lutron Connect app is free for use on your home wifi network AND when away from the network.  To use the newer features Paul referenced above (Sonos and Amazon Echo), you will need the Connect Bridge.


----------



## Ziba Ji

lalawyer said:


> There is no charge to use the app on your home network. There is a yearly charge for remote access. Only certified programmers can access the software to program RR2 systems.


my naive and newbe what is diff between remote access and using app on phone for lutron?
Is lutron compatible with apple home kit? I see only very lousy accessories for apple kit 4 the time being. I am trying to stay away from control 4, that also needs $99/year and was wondering if there is a fee for lutron too?

One more question, how can i run low voltage LED strip with radio ra2 dimmer programmed for my home theater and how?


----------



## Les Auber

Remote access is when away from your home wifi. App cost is all that's needed for Home + on local network. 

I've heard somewhere that if you have a VPN connection it will work remotely without paying Lutron but don't know. 


Les


----------



## spiwrx

Let me just clarify a few things. 

The Lutron APP's are now free, (they used to be paid). 

There are 2 APP's for Radio Ra 2 (RR2) 
Home Control + (for regular system users)
Lutron Connect (for people with the Connect Bridge device) 

Home Control + allows your basic operation from your phones and tablets when connected to your wifi. 
Home Control + offers a paid VPN service ($60/yr) for remote operation (remote meaning away from your home)

With the purchase of the Connect Bridge Device from Lutron you get free VPN and have to use the Lutron Connect APP. 

If you have a 3rd party VPN and can access your network and network connected computers and devices remotely you should be able to access you RR2 system as well. Most 3rd party VPN's start around $5/mo. If you're not sure what a VPN is you may want to research it as it does have some security implications to your network. 

Additionally the Lutron Connect Bridge device allows some local 3rd party integration's like they just announced for Sonos and Alexa(Echo). Homekit is asked for a lot and hopefully they will respond, but as of yet it does not. However you can pre-order the new Alexa Dot for about $50ea. I'll let you know how it works when mine arrives.


----------



## Les Auber

Interesting.  I ponied up the $20 for Home+ and Homesense both.  Oh well...

Thanks for the clarification on VPN.  My router supports it.  Have to figure out the setup.

Les


----------



## schalliol

The Bridge is presently garbage. Indeed you can do the remote login where port forwarding or VPN are free on many routers, but the third-party compatibility is a joke.  It makes the app see the device, but that's it. You currently can't do a time clock mode with the third-party devices or have it respond to physical buttons of any kind (i.e. Away more).  The master repeater doesn't even know it exists.


----------



## spiwrx

If you haven't grabbed it yet, version 10.4 is out and apparently version 10.3 of the software was skipped.


----------



## spiwrx

10.5 is now available... 
"Resolved issue where the main repeater may go into safe mode when an extracted project file is modified and transferred" 

This should only effect those of you doing this and to do an extraction you need "Inclusive" software. most of you are doing your own programming so you shouldn't have to do an extraction if you have the project file saved!!  Don't forget to back up and update soft/firmware occasionally!!  

I just received another call from someone who had their system programmed years ago, although it has been working fine, she wants to add to it and the original programmer has skipped town. Since she was programmed pre-version 8 software, extraction isn't even possible, I have to re-program the entire system to add a few things... _(if she had the original project file we could run it through older versions of the software to her up to date).

_This posed an interesting conversation about who "owns" the program. There are mixed opinions here among colleagues and customers that as a programmer is it your intellectual property or since the home owner paid for this "service" should they own it?? Your thoughts?? Since extraction is now possible to "Inclusive" only programmers, Lutron has essentially created a hierarchy that basically says those privileged enough  with "Inclusive" have the right to someone Else's work.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> I just received another call from someone who had their system programmed years ago, although it has been working fine, she wants to add to it and the original programmer has skipped town. Since she was programmed pre-version 8 software, extraction isn't even possible, I have to re-program the entire system to add a few things... _(if she had the original project file we could run it through older versions of the software to her up to date).
> 
> _This posed an interesting conversation about who "owns" the program. There are mixed opinions here among colleagues and customers that as a programmer is it your intellectual property or since the home owner paid for this "service" should they own it?? Your thoughts?? Since extraction is now possible to "Inclusive" only programmers, Lutron has essentially created a hierarchy that basically says those privileged enough  with "Inclusive" have the right to someone Else's work.


Bill for your time and move on.  Getting into pissing matches over 'ownership' of a system configuration seems like a stupid waste of time and customer goodwill.  It'd be one thing if it had actual programming code and custom-drawn artwork.  But this is just a database of devices and settings.  Sure, there's a few clever things you can do with scenes and schedules but, really?  That ain't programming and it sure doesn't rise to the level of "intellectual property".


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> This should only effect those of you doing this and to do an extraction you need "Inclusive" software. most of you are doing your own programming so you shouldn't have to do an extraction if you have the project file saved!!  Don't forget to back up and update soft/firmware occasionally!!


Good suggestions, I name all my configurations with a date in the filename.  Makes it easier to sort them, especially when using the format of "Project Name-2016-10-05.ra2".  The year-month-day format sorts properly in a text list.


----------



## shftup

spiwrx said:


> Let me just clarify a few things.
> 
> The Lutron APP's are now free, (they used to be paid).
> 
> There are 2 APP's for Radio Ra 2 (RR2)
> Home Control + (for regular system users)
> Lutron Connect (for people with the Connect Bridge device)
> 
> Home Control + allows your basic operation from your phones and tablets when connected to your wifi.
> Home Control + offers a paid VPN service ($60/yr) for remote operation (remote meaning away from your home)
> 
> With the purchase of the Connect Bridge Device from Lutron you get free VPN and have to use the Lutron Connect APP.
> 
> If you have a 3rd party VPN and can access your network and network connected computers and devices remotely you should be able to access you RR2 system as well. Most 3rd party VPN's start around $5/mo. If you're not sure what a VPN is you may want to research it as it does have some security implications to your network.
> 
> Additionally the Lutron Connect Bridge device allows some local 3rd party integration's like they just announced for Sonos and Alexa(Echo). Homekit is asked for a lot and hopefully they will respond, but as of yet it does not. However you can pre-order the new Alexa Dot for about $50ea. I'll let you know how it works when mine arrives.


This is some good stuff from Lutron.
Just wondering if I can use my existing RR2 setup with the new WINK Hub?


----------



## freeoscar

shftup said:


> This is some good stuff from Lutron.
> Just wondering if I can use my existing RR2 setup with the new WINK Hub?


No.  Wink works with Caseta, not RR2.


----------



## shftup

freeoscar said:


> No.  Wink works with Caseta, not RR2.


Thanks for the reply but the announcement for Wink Hub 2, it includes support for Lutron clear connect:


http://www.lutron.com/en-US/residen...ential-solutions/integrationconnectivity.aspx

Clear Connect RF Technology
Clear Connect RF Technology is Lutron’s latest advancement of our highly reliable RF technology that ensures seamless communication between our system components. Lutron RF products and systems operate on a quiet frequency band that is essentially free of interference, so your system won't be affected by a neighboring one. A dedicated network ensures communication between systems devices are reliably delivered and group commands ensure a smooth, simultaneous system response.

Clear Connect has been deployed in Lutron’s next-generation systems, including Caséta™ Wireless, Radio Powr Savr® sensors, GRAFIK Eye® QS, Sivoia® QS Wireless, and Radio RA® 2.
\


Just wonder the timeline, etc.


----------



## freeoscar

shftup said:


> Thanks for the reply but the announcement for Wink Hub 2, it includes support for Lutron clear connect:
> 
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/residen...ential-solutions/integrationconnectivity.aspx
> 
> Clear Connect RF Technology
> Clear Connect RF Technology is Lutron’s latest advancement of our highly reliable RF technology that ensures seamless communication between our system components. Lutron RF products and systems operate on a quiet frequency band that is essentially free of interference, so your system won't be affected by a neighboring one. A dedicated network ensures communication between systems devices are reliably delivered and group commands ensure a smooth, simultaneous system response.
> 
> Clear Connect has been deployed in Lutron’s next-generation systems, including Caséta™ Wireless, Radio Powr Savr® sensors, GRAFIK Eye® QS, Sivoia® QS Wireless, and Radio RA® 2.
> \
> 
> 
> Just wonder the timeline, etc.


Yes, it supports ClearConnect, but only for the Caseta line. The original Wink hub does as well. RR2 is a professionally installed system, and thus far Lutron has shown no interest in expanding integration beyond other professionally installed systems such as Connect4. It is my belief that they will not expand to consumer products like Wink or Smartthings because that creates a complicated set of issues in terms of accountability when the product fails. Perhaps I am wrong, but thus far the only consumer product they have added are for Sonos and Echo, which are much simpler and limited. If I had to guess, I could see them adding HomeKit support at some point due to the simpler and more secure nature of that product. Also, from a business standpoint I would guess that the overwhelming majority of RR2 homeowners use iOS devices, whereas a tiny minority would care about Wink and Smartthings.


----------



## Swancoat

Do RR2 keypads have an actual IR input (like 2.5mm) in the back? Or is it just an 'eye' and you're supposed to tape a blaster over it?


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> Do RR2 keypads have an actual IR input (like 2.5mm) in the back? Or is it just an 'eye' and you're supposed to tape a blaster over it?


No connection just a position to mount (likely tape) a IR blaster/bugeye. 
See "Rear View" in this document: http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUMENTLIBRARY/369-221B_20100518.PDF
It's simply a form in the mold of the backside of the dimmer to help locate it and a small hole to pass IR. 
http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUMENTLIBRARY/369-221B_20100518.PDF
Exception to the rule are the Grafik Eye's do have a wired IR connection.


----------



## Swancoat

spiwrx said:


> No connection just a position to mount (likely tape) a IR blaster/bugeye.
> See "Rear View" in this document: http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUMENTLIBRARY/369-221B_20100518.PDF
> It's simply a form in the mold of the backside of the dimmer to help locate it and a small hole to pass IR.
> http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUMENTLIBRARY/369-221B_20100518.PDF
> Exception to the rule are the Grafik Eye's do have a wired IR connection.


Thanks.

I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room. I have 6 loads (broken into 2 3-gang groups on either side of a stud). Currently all controlled with RA2 Dimmers and one Hybrid Keypad. I couldn't stuff another switch in there and go with a regular keypad (with IR) unless I retrofitted it above or below one of the 3 gangs, and pulled power from that box. Too messy looking and the dimmers are off to the side anyway and not a 'great' location for IR.

So I'm currently controlling it with an Insteon IR Receiver, which my computer picks up and then uses to trigger a Lutron scene. This... works... ok... Some Insteon reliability issues, but generally works. Direct IR control of a keypad would be a lot more reliable though. I COULD put an unengraved black keypad at the front of the room just below the screen or something, but the LEDs pretty much make it a non-starter. The rest of the AV equipment is in a rack in the back corner of the room, with an IR connection block distributing IR there from a receiver below the screen. If there was any kind of reliable way to install a keypad into my rack (especially a code-compliant way) that would probably be the best solution.

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to throw them at me!


----------



## Neurorad

Swancoat said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room. I have 6 loads (broken into 2 3-gang groups on either side of a stud). Currently all controlled with RA2 Dimmers and one Hybrid Keypad. I couldn't stuff another switch in there and go with a regular keypad (with IR) unless I retrofitted it above or below one of the 3 gangs, and pulled power from that box. Too messy looking and the dimmers are off to the side anyway and not a 'great' location for IR.
> 
> So I'm currently controlling it with an Insteon IR Receiver, which my computer picks up and then uses to trigger a Lutron scene. This... works... ok... Some Insteon reliability issues, but generally works. Direct IR control of a keypad would be a lot more reliable though. I COULD put an unengraved black keypad at the front of the room just below the screen or something, but the LEDs pretty much make it a non-starter. The rest of the AV equipment is in a rack in the back corner of the room, with an IR connection block distributing IR there from a receiver below the screen. If there was any kind of reliable way to install a keypad into my rack (especially a code-compliant way) that would probably be the best solution.
> 
> If anyone has any ideas, feel free to throw them at me!


An easy solution would be a surface mount junction box in the rack, with a 600V-rated IR emitter inside the box, and a RA2 KP mounted in the jbox. Or, drill a small hole in the back of the junction box, and locate the IR emitter outside the box. IIRC, Lutron offered a rated emitter, but unsure.

There are other methods to control RA2 - RS232 and IP - but you would need to put the time in to learn how. Global Cache offers hardware and software for similar purposes, though I'm unsure about IR -> IP.

If you use another hub (e.g. Logitech, Logitech Remote Control -> RF -> Logitech hub -> IP (wifi) and IR (emitters)), perhaps it could communicate with the RA2 hub, via IP?


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room.....


Is there an option to just get rid of the necessity of IR? Only way to get IR into the RR2 system _(via Lutron devices)_ is regular Wall Keypad (RRD-Wxxxx-xx) or through a Grafik Eye. Even if you could get an IR emitter to an unrelated keypad in a different room you could do this. Unfortunately the Hybrid keypads do not have this feature. 

Can you use a product like the Global Cache GC-100-6? 

Or I quickly stumbled onto an IR to Telnet project like this:
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=7599.0


----------



## Neurorad

I believe you would need to hardwire the rack, and keypad, though I previously believed the KPs could be powered through low voltage, and daisy-chaining - maybe that was just the older HomeWorks KPs.

One of the RA2 KPs has a front IR, and all have a rear IR receiver. In the rack, you could use the KP with the front IR receiver, and hide it behind a blank plate.

So, you would run power to the rack, and hardwire the junction box inside the rack. Mount the KP in the rack, use the front IR receiver.

I've never hardwired a rack. Does yours slide out, or is it on casters? Greenfield conduit might work, to hardwire a mobile rack, to a nearby wall plate.

I think mounting the keypad in the wall near the rack, and extending the emitter out of the rack to the wall KP, might be easier.


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> I believe you would need to hardwire the rack, and keypad, though I previously believed the KPs could be powered through low voltage


The regular wall keypads only have IR (not hybrid) and can be powered on Low Voltage. Lutron has an application note for this but they recommend an obscure 48v transformer, I have powered them off 24v sensor power output of the Grafik Eye before (long story), still working 3 years later. And their other (similar) Keypads in the past use a 12v power supply. 

Application Note 406

http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/048406b Using an Aux PS for RF keypads.pdf


----------



## Neurorad

Paul - that Application Note #406 shows the Sola/Hevi-Duty power supply SDP 1-48-100T is hardwired too.

Seems that if one is adding a 110V 3-prong pigtail to a device, that it should be the Lutron keypad directly, and not the power supply, inside a properly rated junction box.

I don't think Paul can recommend doing that, specifically, though.

Lutron may be able to make some recs about mounting a KP in a rack.


----------



## markrubin

I could use some help:

my RR2 system consists of a main and 2 Aux repeaters: using RA 2 8.0

issue is with a RR-VCRX visor control receiver in the attached garage, right below my HT and the main repeater
every time I update the programming, the garage receiver shows error as being out of range: if I bring the receiver into the house near the main repeater it works: no error. So that is what I have to do every time I want to update the program. Once I update it I can put the receiver back in the garage and it works: accepts commands from the system (such as open the garage door from an iPad)

If I move one of the aux repeaters into the garage as a test, I still get the error

I tried moving the garage receiver around a bit but am constrained by wiring: the garage doors are steel and I guess that contributes to the problem

so it seems the RR-VCRX will only talk to the main repeater, and is just out of range: yet it is within range of the aux repeater

am I missing something here? is there a setting that would allow it to communicate with an aux repeater?
I have about 40 devices (keypads/controls/shades) and everything else works great except this garage receiver


----------



## lalawyer

Is the Aux repeater nearest the VCRX showing up in the software? If so, maybe you have a defective repeater or VCRX. Suggest you call Lutron.


----------



## markrubin

lalawyer said:


> Is the Aux repeater nearest the VCRX showing up in the software? If so, maybe you have a defective repeater or VCRX. Suggest you call Lutron.


figured out the aux repeaters were not daisy chained properly:
i.e. repeater 2 was closer to main repeater: repeater 1 was at far end of house

so simply swapping the repeaters fixed the issue: must have gotten swapped after some recent painting


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> figured out the aux repeaters were not daisy chained properly:
> i.e. repeater 2 was closer to main repeater: repeater 1 was at far end of house
> 
> so simply swapping the repeaters fixed the issue: must have gotten swapped after some recent painting


Interesting, I've never had that come up but around here most of the homes don't need an Aux. Are the Aux. Repeaters wired (MUX) or wireless? 

I have had a similar issue with a 2 main repeater system in which you have to assign the Aux. Repeaters to the appropriate Main repeater depending on your layout. In my case I had a central Main (max'd out on devices) I added a secondary main to add some more devices to the rear of the home and then they added shades to the front of the home. Instead of moving all the devices around(on repeaters), I added the Aux. repeater physically to the front of the home and tied it (programming / wireless) to the rear main. The central main was left alone. I'm only mentioning in in-case this confused mess of a solution helps someone. The Aux. has to be out of range of the rear repeater, but assuming it's repeating through the central main and both mains are on the network it's been working fine and cleared all of my activation and transfer issues I was having. 

On a side note: It's fairly common for the activation/transfer to fail with a range issue and operate just fine unless the distance is extreme. Trying successive transfers or "retry failed devices" usually will get through to them. If not temporarily moving the main repeater usually works just fine. I have this issue to a table top keypad running on batteries in my own home. If I wake it up (press a button) or plug it in (power supply) it works fine, but if I forget (typically do) I have to wake it up and resend. The "wake up" is just something I found that works for me, Lutron literature says these have to be plugged in for programming. But they do go to sleep to save battery if running on battery.


----------



## markrubin

Paul

the 2 Aux repeaters are wireless: they otherwise work fine and I never knew about the daisy chain requirement: I called Lutron and the tech knew what the issue was right away

But sure enough the first Aux repeater (i.e. closest to the main) was showing up as number 2: the far one as number 1: as soon as I swapped them everything worked

btw: when I went into diagnostics it showed both aux repeaters, and the VCRX as not working properly: Lutron guy said as long as they seemed to be working ignore the diagnostic test results


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> btw: when I went into diagnostics it showed both aux repeaters, and the VCRX as not working properly: Lutron guy said as long as they seemed to be working ignore the diagnostic test results


I agree, I program for several contractors and homeowners and I see this a lot. Also, the diagnostic page will be slow to respond occasionally and even intermittent as well. Saying that I'm not sure it's really reliable and/or useful. 

The only thing that is real important, is to test you transfers to these devices before you pack things up. If it's a keypad and you adjusted anything on any of the buttons from the previous program, it probably didn't update the device if it failed on transfer. Test the device (buttons) and try again, or move repeaters / devices as necessary & possible. Part of my programming tool bag includes a longer network (patch) cable and extension cord for this reason. Also, sometimes just playing with the antennae position improves it. I moved a repeater 12inches in a equipment room one time and all my problems went away.


----------



## spiwrx

So I got my Echo Dot last week and was playing with it all weekend. Now I'm checking daily for the RR2 10.6 update it's supposed to be on. It's a pretty cool little device and since I don't have to press a button on my phone or ipad to get Siri, I think I might like this better. Plus I don't always have my phone or tablet on me in the house. The built in speaker leaves a lot to be desired for streaming music but you can pair it to other speakers and control better audio options with it. 

My kids however are driving Alexa nuts. Giving her math questions and trying to ask her all kinds of stuff. I expected it to fail with each of them yelling over each other trying to get answers to different questions, so far so good. I'm wondering if I get "Dot's" throughout the home though how I can limit them to "listening" to just the room there in with a couple of kids that seem really loud to me.... 

I'm impressed how little setup(basic operation) it was and how well it recognizes my voice. I tend mumble my wife says and I have a low voice naturally which Siri does not like. 

For those of you playing with HomeKit, am I understanding this correctly, you would have to initiate(button press) Siri to use Homekit Verbally or can you set it up like Alexa/Echo so that it's just listening? Sorry I just haven't had anything Homekit compatible yet to test with... ​


----------



## markrubin

^

I have 15 devices operating on Echo: I no longer have to look for the remote to turn my system on/off, lower/raise shades/lights/volume, etc, and it controls my Nest thermostats

I use the My Devices driver for RTI controls

so when I walk into my HT I can say:_ Echo turn Study on_: it runs a macro that turns my HT on, lights off, and shades down, and politely says _OK 


_


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> I'm wondering if I get "Dot's" throughout the home though how I can limit them to "listening" to just the room there in with a couple of kids that seem really loud to me....


Unless something was added recently there's no mic sensitivity setting - I see other folks suggest (which is a good one!) giving the units different wake words ("Alexa" / "Amazon" / "Echo") to avoid the issue.

But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.

"Alexa, turn on the lights" is a lot more natural than "Alexa, turn on the lights".

At the speed they're increasing the functionality - I don't think it will take long...



> Now I'm checking daily for the RR2 10.6 update it's supposed to be on.


I was glad to see when you posted that 10.5 was available - "Oh, good, the important update is up next!"


----------



## freeoscar

jautor said:


> Unless something was added recently there's no mic sensitivity setting - I see other folks suggest (which is a good one!) giving the units different wake words ("Alexa" / "Amazon" / "Echo") to avoid the issue.
> 
> But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.
> 
> "Alexa, turn on the lights" is a lot more natural than "Alexa, turn on the lights".
> 
> At the speed they're increasing the functionality - I don't think it will take long...
> 
> 
> 
> I was glad to see when you posted that 10.5 was available - "Oh, good, the important update is up next!"


_But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.
_

They announced ESP (Echo spatial perception) when they announced the gen 2 echo dot to deal with just this issue. It has rolled out to the Echo, but not yet to the dot's, though I imagine it will be very shortly.


----------



## jautor

freeoscar said:


> They announced ESP (Echo spatial perception) when they announced the gen 2 echo dot to deal with just this issue. It has rolled out to the Echo, but not yet to the dot's, though I imagine it will be very shortly.


Is that just for the "multiple units hear the command", or actually dealing with the "command for this room only"?


----------



## freeoscar

jautor said:


> Is that just for the "multiple units hear the command", or actually dealing with the "command for this room only"?


ESP is so that only the most proximate echo responds to a command. As of yet there is no ability to denote a specific echo device to a specific location, which would allow you to say things like "Alexa, turn on the lights" and have it only turn on the lights for that room. I'm hopeful that with Amazon's push for dot's throughout the home that they are actively working on this.


----------



## Swancoat

Neurorad said:


> An easy solution would be a surface mount junction box in the rack, with a 600V-rated IR emitter inside the box, and a RA2 KP mounted in the jbox. Or, drill a small hole in the back of the junction box, and locate the IR emitter outside the box. IIRC, Lutron offered a rated emitter, but unsure.
> 
> There are other methods to control RA2 - RS232 and IP - but you would need to put the time in to learn how. Global Cache offers hardware and software for similar purposes, though I'm unsure about IR -> IP.
> 
> If you use another hub (e.g. Logitech, Logitech Remote Control -> RF -> Logitech hub -> IP (wifi) and IR (emitters)), perhaps it could communicate with the RA2 hub, via IP?


Neurorad and Paul,

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. I'm not going to requote and reply to everything separately, but I'll try to address most things in one post.

Paul, I don't really want to get rid of IR completely. I've moved to using some lower end Harmony 650s around the house (Don't laugh - I love these things. Hard buttons. IR only, and dirt cheap. Fairly intuitive ergonomic layout. Only problem is the relatively low device limit which is a problem in a few rooms for me).

Anyway, I'm already interfacing with RadioRA2 via the IP connection. That's how I'm currently controlling the setup with my IR remote. (There's an Insteon IR receiver, and I'm running Indigo for my Home Automation Software, so Indigo sees the signal from the Insteon IR receiver, and then activates the scene via IP). So everything actually 'works' currently. My only issue here is that the Insteon IR receiver isn't super reliable (and my RA2 has been a revelation in it's bulletproof reliability), so I'd just like to 'eliminate a hop' so to speak (a less reliable hop at that), and go straight from IR to RA2.

As for installing the keypad in the rack... This seems like the way to go. My rack is very accessible (the back of it is in a dedicated closet so I can get there easily) and Neurorad's surface mount box seems like it would be best. As far as wiring it in goes, wouldn't it be ok to just use some SO cord with a plug and go from a receptacle right into the surface mount box (with a strain-relief connector at the box)? In some ways isn't that basically how an Insteon Table-top keypad works? (this thing: http://www.smarthome.com/tabletop-enclosure-for-keypadlinc-white.html)

What would be awesome would be some sort of box with a knockout that had a rack ear on it just to facilitate mounting. Best yet would be a 2U panel with a decora cutout that a box with knockout could mount on. Having access to lights right at the front of the rack might be handy!


----------



## wkearney99

jautor said:


> Is that just for the "multiple units hear the command", or actually dealing with the "command for this room only"?


Multiple units, no 'this device only' kind of thing. And with this it'll actually be a little more difficult to do 'this room' kind of actions.

Still, I'd VERY MUCH like to have a way for a skill to tell which unit is sending it the command. It'd be VERY useful, notwithstanding echo-management issues.


----------



## jautor

wkearney99 said:


> Multiple units, no 'this device only' kind of thing. And with this it'll actually be a little more difficult to do 'this room' kind of actions.


Not really - once you use the noise/echo cancellations to identify the "closest" unit as the one who will "own" the command, you've already selected the room, so it just goes from there... 



> Still, I'd VERY MUCH like to have a way for a skill to tell which unit is sending it the command. It'd be VERY useful, notwithstanding echo-management issues.


It will have to do this to become natural, and scalable to the whole house. If they have to train people to speak differently to Alexa than they do a human, they miss the boat... (to some degree)


----------



## wkearney99

jautor said:


> Not really - once you use the noise/echo cancellations to identify the "closest" unit as the one who will "own" the command, you've already selected the room, so it just goes from there...


 I have multiple Alexa units and can tell you it"s not that simple. Materials (wood, tile, carpet, wall coverings, drapes, etc) introduce a lot of complications. That and actions like walking from one place to another will change what you 'intend' versus how the devices 'heard' you. An automation system can bridge the gap but it's going to need to know WHICH device initiated the command.


----------



## Neurorad

Swancoat said:


> As for installing the keypad in the rack... This seems like the way to go. My rack is very accessible (the back of it is in a dedicated closet so I can get there easily) and Neurorad's surface mount box seems like it would be best. As far as wiring it in goes, wouldn't it be ok to just use some SO cord with a plug and go from a receptacle right into the surface mount box (with a strain-relief connector at the box)? In some ways isn't that basically how an Insteon Table-top keypad works? (this thing: http://www.smarthome.com/tabletop-enclosure-for-keypadlinc-white.html)
> 
> What would be awesome would be some sort of box with a knockout that had a rack ear on it just to facilitate mounting. Best yet would be a 2U panel with a decora cutout that a box with knockout could mount on. Having access to lights right at the front of the rack might be handy!


A nice looking surface mount box could be mounted on the back of a shelf. I don't think adding a 3-prong connector is 'to code', as that's not what UL put their stamp on.

I would figure out how to power that keypad using low voltage, with a transformer, though I doubt that would be 'to code' either.

RDL, Nuvo, and Middle Atlantic do have panels with Decora knockouts, but I don't think they offer line-voltage rated boxes for them, specifically.










You could also mount DIN rail to a blank plate (maybe recessed), and find a DIN-mount junction box. Or, mount the junction box directly to a blank plate.

Task Lighting Angled Outlet TR Series has Decora openings. I've configured one to hold a Pico, with multiple duplex outlets, for an under-cabinet power outlet and under-cabinet light control solution. I don't know if a Lutron KP would fit inside. The shortest length is 9", with a single knockout.




























The angled outlet strip would need to be hardwired - or add the 3-prong connector if you don't care about the NEC and UL.

If the rack is fixed in this closet, would be fairly easy to hardwire power into the rack, using Greenfield flexible steel electrical conduit - like a disposal under your sink. 










Greenfield fed from a steel/aluminum wall plate, with a connector knockout in the middle (drill your own hole, or buy with the knockout).


----------



## jautor

wkearney99 said:


> I have multiple Alexa units and can tell you it"s not that simple. Materials (wood, tile, carpet, wall coverings, drapes, etc) introduce a lot of complications. That and actions like walking from one place to another will change what you 'intend' versus how the devices 'heard' you. An automation system can bridge the gap but it's going to need to know WHICH device initiated the command.


We're off topic, but yeah, THAT is the hard part, getting resolution to which device "owns" the command. But once you do that, providing default context is straightforward. 

Placement of the mics, dealing with room acoustics, etc. is going to be a learning process regardless. Combination of technology and experience (don't put a mic there!)...


----------



## Swancoat

Neurorad said:


> If the rack is fixed in this closet, would be fairly easy to hardwire power into the rack, using Greenfield flexible steel electrical conduit - like a disposal under your sink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greenfield fed from a steel/aluminum wall plate, with a connector knockout in the middle (drill your own hole, or buy with the knockout).


I think my last option will be to run MC cable to the rack for that style of 'hardwired' solution only because if I'm going to go through the effort to install a new stainless steel plate on the wall (that the MC cable comes from), I'd probably just plop the keypad there, and run an emitter from the rack to there.

I think the surface Mount box is the best idea. I really like some of those MA wall plates, and having the lighting keypad available at the front of the rack DOES sound slick, but seems like there's a lot of challnenges (Sourcing the plate with only one hole, figuring out a backbox situation, etc...). Probably nowhere near cost effective (mind you, adding this keypad in any fashion isn't really cost effective).


----------



## Neurorad

Putting the KP in the nearby wall would be easy. Add a Decora black Pico, for front of rack control.

For LV Decora, single knockout, you could cut a 2U (?) plate yourself, or have it cut locally for cheap. But, I think a 3-cutout Decora










with a couple blank filler plates would be cheapest.

Looks like MA has some retractable Decora-sized lights, which could be used for rather pricey filler plates:


----------



## Neurorad

Found the MA 1-Decora device plate

DECP-1X1










http://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...anels/panels-for-decora-devices/decp-1x1.aspx

MSRP $35, plus the $20-30 for the Pico. Plus, the $300 KP.


----------



## Swancoat

Neurorad said:


> Found the MA 1-Decora device plate
> 
> DECP-1X1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...anels/panels-for-decora-devices/decp-1x1.aspx
> 
> MSRP $35, plus the $20-30 for the Pico. Plus, the $300 KP.


ahhh, pretty close. I don't really 'need' a keypad at the front of the rack (just figure if I'm adding one anyway for IR, might as well be able to push the buttons).

Regardless of if I can get it into the rack or not... How about putting it into a 2-gang surface mount box (just so there's a bit of additional room) and just wiring straight to this (https://amzn.com/B00MEKDVYQ)? That has to be the best solution.


----------



## wkearney99

jautor said:


> We're off topic, but yeah, THAT is the hard part, getting resolution to which device "owns" the command. But once you do that, providing default context is straightforward.
> 
> Placement of the mics, dealing with room acoustics, etc. is going to be a learning process regardless. Combination of technology and experience (don't put a mic there!)...


I disagree with "don't put a mic there". That raises a degree of interference with decorating that would cause more trouble than it'd solve. There's not always power or space to put the mic and/or the speaker in "the ideal" location for the technology. Or the device is going to get moved, for whatever reasons, or has other sound-affecting materials moved around it. As in, an Echo on the kitchen counter and then grocery bags stacked around it. Yes, personal experience here, the one across the house responded better if the nearest one was blocked. Real world conditions trump tech requirements. THIS is one of the successes here, getting away from "it won't work because the tech is limited to certain conditions" requirements. 

But there are still skills that could be written than would benefit from having the OPTION to differentiate based on the device making the request. It would be most useful (perhaps only) in situations where there's a high likelihood of just a specific device hearing the command. I have to think there are people at Amazon has been having this argument for a while. The 'no source identification' crowd seems to be winning the argument.


----------



## jautor

wkearney99 said:


> I disagree with "don't put a mic there". That raises a degree of interference with decorating that would cause more trouble than it'd solve. There's not always power or space to put the mic and/or the speaker in "the ideal" location for the technology. Or the device is going to get moved, for whatever reasons, or has other sound-affecting materials moved around it. As in, an Echo on the kitchen counter and then grocery bags stacked around it. Yes, personal experience here, the one across the house responded better if the nearest one was blocked. Real world conditions trump tech requirements. THIS is one of the successes here, getting away from "it won't work because the tech is limited to certain conditions" requirements.


(my last post on this as we're de-railing the RA2 thread)

You misunderstood what I meant. The industry and users will learn with more experience the balance of mic placement / usability / performance over time. And the technology and software will improve to further the capabilities. I'd also expect we'll see lots more form factors for Echo devices to better integrate into the home or provide more choices for placement. A PoE device or mics integrated into touchscreen/keypads are both likely additions...



> But there are still skills that could be written than would benefit from having the OPTION to differentiate based on the device making the request. It would be most useful (perhaps only) in situations where there's a high likelihood of just a specific device hearing the command. I have to think there are people at Amazon has been having this argument for a while. The 'no source identification' crowd seems to be winning the argument.


Yes, the usage shifts as it grows to include "home control". Location-awareness and personal identification are both things we should expect these systems to get to. Yes, lots of cases where it doesn't matter ("what's the temp outside?"), but the big win here is when the system uses context to match a human's response - getting humans to learn different rules for talking to the machines is a losing proposition for mass acceptance. Say "Turn on the TV" to a human and we know what happens - and it certainly isn't every TV in the house comes on...


----------



## Neurorad

Swancoat said:


> ahhh, pretty close. I don't really 'need' a keypad at the front of the rack (just figure if I'm adding one anyway for IR, might as well be able to push the buttons).
> 
> Regardless of if I can get it into the rack or not... How about putting it into a 2-gang surface mount box (just so there's a bit of additional room) and just wiring straight to this (https://amzn.com/B00MEKDVYQ)? That has to be the best solution.


Your amazon link is dead now, but I glanced at it earlier, and I think it was a male C14 power connector. 

I don't think that's 'to code'. 

I think it would be best as a panel-mount C14, mounted to the side of a rated junction box.

If not hardwired, with MC cable, I would try to power it using low voltage, from a converter power brick.


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> As for installing the keypad in the rack... This seems like the way to go. My rack is very accessible (the back of it is in a dedicated closet so I can get there easily) and Neurorad's surface mount box seems like it would be best. As far as wiring it in goes, wouldn't it be ok to just use some SO cord with a plug and go from a receptacle right into the surface mount box (with a strain-relief connector at the box)? In some ways isn't that basically how an Insteon Table-top keypad works? (this thing: http://www.smarthome.com/tabletop-enclosure-for-keypadlinc-white.html)
> 
> What would be awesome would be some sort of box with a knockout that had a rack ear on it just to facilitate mounting. Best yet would be a 2U panel with a decora cutout that a box with knockout could mount on. Having access to lights right at the front of the rack might be handy!


I have to advise you of proper code as far as I understand it. If you do a surface mount box on a short SO cord it's considered temporary and can just be plugged in (un-mounted box). If you mount the box it becomes permanent, the SO cord if short is still O.K. but you need to hard wire. [_code semantics_]

Obliviously it doesn't really matter if it's not being inspected.... 

This box doesn't look pretty(galvanized) but you could paint it black (or ???). Typically call an "AB" or angle bracket box or sometimes a "front nailer". You might not find it and a big box store, but if you have an electrical supply they should have one. (_or you may know someone on this thread that could sell you one_ )


----------



## spiwrx

OK, don't get too excited but 10.6 is out. I was on a long support call with Lutron yesterday and got a little dirt. Before the Alexa will work he said we need a "version 3 APP", not sure if he meant the Alexa APP or Lutron but regardless it's apparently not out yet. 

Also, for those of you still hoping for HomeKit, the issue here is between Apple and Lutron with and apparent limitation on the Apple side of to few devices. In other words Lutron RR2 exceeds the device limit Apple has set (and Caseta doesn't). So until they get that worked out, we won't see a homekit integration on RR2 for a while. 

From the Release notes:

New in 10.6
New Features
1. Support for Alexa voice control. You can now link voice commands to buttons on existing physical and virtual keypads in your database from the Lutron Connect App. This feature works for Single Action and Toggle Buttons. This feature does not work with phantom keypads or dynamic keypads. 

2. Support for Adding audio Picos. You can now add audio Picos in GUI that work with Sonos devices.

3. Restricting traffic to local LAN. In the Find Main Repeater screen, you can choose whether the main repeaters should reject all Ethernet traffic that does not originate from the local network. If you wish to enable this feature, please note that remote Alarm.com access from the LHC+ app will not function. If you have the Lutron Connect Bridge, even if this feature is enabled, remote access will still work with the Lutron Connect app. In either case, when the LHC+ or Connect app is connected to the local network (i.e. the user is in the home and is connected to their home Wi-Fi network) the app will still function properly.


----------



## wkearney99

Right, the app is now out, as is the Smart Home skill to go along with it. 

You have to use the Connect app (which requires a Connect Bridge to be on-site) to configure which devices and/or scenes will be presented to the Alexa Smart Home service. 

It starts with no devices enabled by default. With each device you can set the name that will be presented for controlling it. So while a device might be called "Family Room Recessed Cans" in the Lutron project, you could call it just "Family Room Ceiling" or whatever worked best. Bearing in mind that names need to be unique, so you can't have more than one light called "Ceiling". The Alexa system does not differentiate between multiple Alexa devices, so there's no way currently to attach devices to control only by specific Alexa units. This is specific to the Alexa system, not Lutron's Connect service.

Note, the scenes here are distinct from ones created in the Alexa app itself. If you want to control a whole room then you'd either create a scene on the Lutron system OR one in the Alexa system. As in, "Alexa, turn off kitchen". You'd have to create a scene with the name "kitchen" in the Lutron Connect app, and configure it from the Lutron software. This would allow using all of Lutron's nice effects for fade and delay. Alternatively you could create a scene in the Alexa app named "kitchen" and then add whatever devices you want to control into it. This could include devices from different vendors. But by doing so wouldn't get any of Lutron's fancier scene features unless you added a Lutron scene as a device and not the actual individual light switches. 

Head hurt yet? It's really not anybody's "fault" here. Stuff like this is rightfully a bit complicated otherwise you'd lose a lot of nice features.

You could get both Alexa grouping of devices across different platforms AND still call Lutron scenes. So something like a "Welcome home" setup as an Alexa scene could do a fair number of clever things. But it's not going to come without some careful planning. Out of the box it's not going to do much.

Given the emergence of Alexa-based audio, does anyone still give a damn about Sonos? If/when existing Sonos devices could be used _*seamlessly*_ from Alexa it might matter. But as of now, our Sonos units are not getting any use. Sure, Sonos audio fidelity is markedly better, but you just can't beat the simple convenience of "Alexa, play from Pandora". It. Just. Works. 

Be careful about the LAN restriction. There have been a number of posts on the forums from folks having trouble making connections to the repeaters. Some amount of dance between DHCP, firewalls and multicast being involved. So tripping any kind of traffic restricting should be considered very carefully without at least have a very good understanding of the network on-site and it's reliability.

Oh, and if you're thinking about using both Ra2 and Caseta, be aware they each have to use separate e-mail addresses to set them up. You can't log into them both using the same address. Why would you do this, you might ask? Because there's a few situations where a simple outlet-mounted control is preferable. Ra2 doesn't offer an equivalent to the PD-3PCL (the 3LD and 3PD aren't outlet-mountable, but in-line dongles). That and the Caseta gear is considerably less expensive. For a few edge cases it might be worth considering them. Just not with direct integration with Ra2. You'd have to go through some other integration platform... like Alexa, Homeseer, CQC and the like.


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> For those of you still hoping for HomeKit, the issue here is between Apple and Lutron with and apparent limitation on the Apple side of to few devices. In other words Lutron RR2 exceeds the device limit Apple has set (and Caseta doesn't). So until they get that worked out, we won't see a homekit integration on RR2 for a while.


Finally a real answer! I understand why that could be a problem and hope it will be resolved soon. Why buy a bunch of Amazon boxes to liter a phone when you could say "Hey, Siri" anywhere you go?


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> Finally a real answer! I understand why that could be a problem and hope it will be resolved soon. Why buy a bunch of Amazon boxes to liter a phone when you could say "Hey, Siri" anywhere you go?


Because the mics on the Amazon units do a markedly better job? That's a pretty good reason. That and they're considerably less expensive than being roped into Apple-only products. That and there's a much more robust and OPEN development environment for new skills.


----------



## freeoscar

wkearney99 said:


> Given the emergence of Alexa-based audio, does anyone still give a damn about Sonos? If/when existing Sonos devices could be used _*seamlessly*_ from Alexa it might matter. But as of now, our Sonos units are not getting any use. Sure, Sonos audio fidelity is markedly better, but you just can't beat the simple convenience of "Alexa, play from Pandora". It. Just. Works.


Alexa/Sonos direct integration was announced back in the late summer and is expected in early '17, so it's a little early to say it isn't useful.
Also, thank you for the thorough alexa/radio ra2 review - that was helpful.


----------



## wkearney99

freeoscar said:


> Alexa/Sonos direct integration was announced back in the late summer and is expected in early '17, so it's a little early to say it isn't useful.
> Also, thank you for the thorough alexa/radio ra2 review - that was helpful.


The Ra2 stuff does look interesting. It'll be a bit of an uphill climb for folks if they have more than just a few devices. It really does get kind of tedious trying to both come up with the right names AND remember them later. Especially if you're in a more recently constructed house that has a lot of lights. Or even an older one where you're using a lot of table dimmers and such. 

I've got a kitchen with a lot of lighting. "Kitchen Sink Recessed Lights" (a pair of cans in the ceiling that flank the sink, to avoid shadows). A "Kitchen Path", a series of recessed cans lighting a path along the cabinets. "Kitchen Island Pendants" are four Tech lights hung from a monorail. Along with three separate sections of undercabinet lights. Adjacent is a pantry with a a surface light and a recessed spot. So while "Turn the kitchen off" is certainly useful, the same can't be said for turning it on. There isn't just one device or even just one scene that accurately reflects what "turning on the lights" actually means for the kitchen. There's potential for time-of-day variance but that runs afoul of weekend or event activities. I do have some scenes for Breakfast (pendants, adjacent casual dining table and range). Another for Cooking (pendants, range, undercabinet) and then one for Dinner (table, pendants). Each also have turn off or dimming changes to others. The Dinner mode turns off the range, undercabinet, sink and path, while dimming the pendants. So here, again, what works for turning things on isn't necessary good for acting as a toggle.

And this is just one room. 

The upside is Lutron lighting allows for a lot of scenes and they can be pretty fancy with different dim levels, fade times and delayed actions. Now that they can be called from Alexa it opens a lot of possibilities. 

My main complaint is you can't ask Alexa what it can do. As in, I can't ask it to tell me what devices, groups, rooms, scenes and the like it knows about. At least not right out of the box. If I use a 3rd party home automation system then a lot of other possibilities emerge. But even then there's still no decent hand-holding or reminding. It's getting there, but I can see where new users are going to be a little frustrated trying to sort through it all.

Back to Sonos, honestly, by '17 it's going to be too little, too late. They've just missed the boat entirely. And perhaps enough that it'll kill them. If there were smart they'd pay ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY to get themselves insinuated into the Alexa ecosystem as a *target* playback device, not just as a skill added-on. Without that they're relegated to being little more than just another bluetooth speaker.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> Finally a real answer! I understand why that could be a problem and hope it will be resolved soon. Why buy a bunch of Amazon boxes to liter a phone when you could say "Hey, Siri" anywhere you go?


I can't say I'm a huge apple person but everyone in my house has a iPhone, kids have touches or iPads. so we have plenty of Apple stuff.. but I have to say I like having the Echo Dot. I don't have to have my phone and so far I only have one Dot and by default it seems that placement in the extents of the rooms will be enough keep actual verbal cross-talk from being a problem. They are small enough to be unobtrusive and I image you could even mount it under or behind an end table or some other furniture. 

I so far like the Audio from the Alexa, fed through the headphone jack, through a cheap $20 Class D (_only $10 on sale right now_) to my Bose 301 cabinet speakers from 20 years ago, still sounds great to me.... I bought this cheap amp just to see what it could do and my first class D, I have to say that little AMP probably isn't for the Audiophile but I have no complaints for normal listening levels and still working for about 3 years.


----------



## schalliol

Fair point. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, but if you're walking around with an iPhone, an Apple Watch, at the TV or happen to be sitting at a computer, Siri is always with you. I'm not sure how many Echos or Echo dots you'd need for a 5,500 square foot house, but that sounds like a big mess.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> Fair point. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist, but if you're walking around with an iPhone, an Apple Watch, at the TV or happen to be sitting at a computer, Siri is always with you. I'm not sure how many Echos or Echo dots you'd need for a 5,500 square foot house, but that sounds like a big mess.


My phone isn't with me, at all, when I'm at home. Not in the early morning when I'm just waking up, not when I have my hands full during cooking (grocery list additions, portion/ingredient math, timers), not getting in/out of the shower, not using tools in the workshop, and those are all times I regularly use Alexa Echo and Dot units. Meanwhile my phone is resting in a wireless charging cradle, ready to be grabbed the next time I head out.

My point is I'm not at all tied to the damned phone all the time, and have hands-free use of voice recog anywhere in the house with no mic compromises. It's a bonus I also get decent streamed audio output from the same devices.


----------



## schalliol

To each their own. My watch will do Siri, so I don't need my phone in my pocket (though it's so light I usually do), but how many dots would I need in a 5,500 sq ft home on three levels? Sounds like a pain.


----------



## wkearney99

Again, no need to be chained to a device. Nothing to keep charged, or bluetooth range. I have more Alexa devices that I 'need' to cover all three floors. I could get by with one on each floor, the mics are sensitive enough make it work most of the time. But adding a few here and there made it easier to use. That and each one can play music through it's speakers. Totally hands-free, totally-charger-free, and a whole house full of them still probably cost less than a single iWatch/iPhone/iPad setup.

I mean, hey, feel free to torture yourself putting up with Apple's arrogance. I'd rather not.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> To each their own. My watch will do Siri, so I don't need my phone in my pocket (though it's so light I usually do), but how many dots would I need in a 5,500 sq ft home on three levels? Sounds like a pain.



Fair Questions guess thats why they're selling 6 - packs. I have 3000sqft and I'm only thinking about the rooms where I spend my time and that only about 4 dots and if I can place them well a couple smaller and adjacent rooms can probably be handled on 1 dot. But for $50 a piece even if you needed 10 or 12... Leads to the question, is there a maximum number of Dots?


----------



## wkearney99

My experience has been to first install an Echo in the kitchen. And perhaps then move it around to find the place it gives the best mic coverage & audio output. Then add ones where the convenience of using it would be improved by not having to shout for it to pickup commands. 

We started with one in a travel path that was in the middle of the 1st floor. It's a very open floorplan. But that was just a little too far to pickup on requests made from the breakfast table. But moving it closer to there meant it was useful to add another one in the home office. Between the two there's good coverage for all our daily activities on that floor. Next was the master suite. Xmas brought another one for the child's room. Next was another in the workshop downstairs (helps a lot doing woodworking measurement calculations). One in the rec room gives all the kids that come over a way to set a timer/alarm to remind them when they have to get home.

We don't have one in every room and I don't see needing or wanting that, either. Strategic coverage for mic pickup is key. Second is whether the audio output works for the given locations; this being the prime factor to decide between Echo or Dot. The Echo sounds a lot nicer, but if you have even better speakers then a Dot paired/plugged into them might give better results.


----------



## spiwrx

Ok admittedly I only toyed with the Echo briefly, but I was amazed at how easily it setup, and yes if you wanted to do everything, individually, this would be a pain. 

A few points from my POV, I updated my software (10.6) and firmware on my main repeater. I checked for my Version 3 Connect app, and I went to the Alexa app... No Devices found!!! One of the more important steps wasn't immediate intuitive, or seamless. I was forced to read some directions... I think it was stated above but you have to enable "Voice integration" inside the Lutron Connect App settings. This was quickly resolved and the rest was really intuitive. 

Now the hard part, decision making.... 

It seems Alex/Echo/Dot can only do on/off? or that's as far as I've got. This really makes you re-think the use of scenes. I think it was also suggested above, and now I see why, that perhaps I'll create a Virtual Alexa only KP, but for example in many of my rooms with multiple devices, I have a "Room Off" button. In Alexa you can rename these and they need a more literal name now, so it know which room to be off. This is done easily in the app and you can call it what ever you want. But my immediate hang up is this is a scene for me and you can only turns scenes "on" from Alexa even though it's an "Off" scene in this case. So currently I have to say "Alexa, turn the living room lights on" to turn them off. I don't think you have to give it a literal "On/Off" command for scenes, so perhaps this one will remain a scene and in Alexa I will rename it "Living Room Off". We'll see how this plays out as we all have more time with it. But even with my kids yelling commands at the same time, it usually gets it right. 

As for the Apple device limit. RR2 has a 200 device limit, and I'm not sure what the limit of the homekit is but it is rumored this is the hold-up for homekit. After playing with Alexa, all you can really connect to is KP (keypad) buttons. And I've done homes with a lot of KP's but never more than about 20, but the Caseta limit is 49, so even if the Apple Limit was 49, this is a ton of KP's. So if the device limit is reflective of only that or give us a limitation that you can only add up to "x" number of buttons or devices. Of course this limitation is hearsay, at this point, but it makes sense. To add to that, if you had that many buttons to program, how are you going to remember all the commands? Another point to make in planning out your Alexa, is to devise a naming / control (verbal) convention, and keep it consistent. That would work room to room so all you have to remember is what you told Alexa the room was called....

All that being said, that's what I'm up to this long holiday weekend, planning out my Alexa controls and tweaking my program as needed to accommodate. 

From the perspective of someone that also programs for multiple home and contractors, this was an immediate wake up, that I will have to go back to a lot of these homes, which is both an opportunity and burgeon depending on how old it is, just a reminder to keep things up to date.. _(I'm going to another one tonight I haven't touched in years, just for this reason) _


----------



## spiwrx

I'm not endorsing or soliciting these, I just thought some of you might find this interesting...

https://www.switchform.net/












http://www.wall-smart.com/products.html










This is unrelated, but I have 10&12yo kids I think this might be under the tree for: (I'm a Bose fan)
https://build.bose.com/


----------



## schalliol

While I am not personally a fan of having two different rectangles in one wall plate like the first post, certainly an old iPhone or iPod Touch would be an easy and inexpensive way to have a dynamic keypad like available with HomeWorks QS using these boxes.

My experience is these phone or tablet interfaces really need to be used with guided access to suppress the dialogs that may come up on a mobile device from time to time. No one wants to see dialogs or errors on a wall.

While I am not a Bose fan, I can get behind the build Bose system. That's pretty nifty!


----------



## highnoon

Can someone help with a RR2 system and trouble with the android app? The app will transmit the action but the status of the app is not updated.

Support from Lutron says I need a custom telnet login because I'm not getting proper 2 way communication with the main controller.

Can someone explain any of the whys and hows?


----------



## spiwrx

highnoon said:


> Can someone help with a RR2 system and trouble with the android app? The app will transmit the action but the status of the app is not updated.
> 
> Support from Lutron says I need a custom telnet login because I'm not getting proper 2 way communication with the main controller.
> 
> Can someone explain any of the whys and hows?


I might guess you're behind on some updates, however it's relatively simple to set up a user in the programming software. Not commonly needed anymore, however you can still do it. 

What device or all are you having problems with?


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## highnoon

spiwrx said:


> I might guess you're behind on some updates, however it's relatively simple to set up a user in the programming software. Not commonly needed anymore, however you can still do it.
> 
> What device or all are you having problems with?


Yes, I'm sure I am behind on updates. 

About 3 years ago, I decided to install a RA2 system with an installer who handles several product lines including Lutron. 

I thought about taking the classes to get access to the software and well... stuff happened. I have a system with a repeater and I thought there was some question whether I could even get the proper software to access my system - so i gave up!

So my system is a Lutron Ra2 with one main unit and one repeater.

I am having trouble with the android app getting feedback from the main system so that when I adjust a switch or light on the app -- the action occurs but nothing changes on the app.

So how do I get the software updated?


----------



## spiwrx

highnoon said:


> Yes, I'm sure I am behind on updates.
> 
> About 3 years ago, I decided to install a RA2 system with an installer who handles several product lines including Lutron.
> 
> I thought about taking the classes to get access to the software and well... stuff happened. I have a system with a repeater and I thought there was some question whether I could even get the proper software to access my system - so i gave up!
> 
> So my system is a Lutron Ra2 with one main unit and one repeater.
> 
> I am having trouble with the android app getting feedback from the main system so that when I adjust a switch or light on the app -- the action occurs but nothing changes on the app.
> 
> So how do I get the software updated?


Best way is to take the free course online. If the original programmer didn't leave a copy of the program, you may have to re-program the entire system though. And after 3 year, depending on the number of devices, that might be better. Unfortunately, I doubt you may also know exactly which part numbers he installed where, which will complicate things, but that's merely just stumbling blocks the first time you try to activate. If you have to re-program you'll have to make you self familiar with how to "Factory default" (reset) each component.

I wouldn't really try to much else until you get everything updated.


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## markrubin

I got Alexa working very nicely with RR2: I have 22 devices discovered including Nest thermostats and other commands through RTI program

for RR2, I use all 8 keypad commands and set up a Dot near the front door: so now when the dog needs to go out at night, I just say: Echo turn on outdoor (lights)

I am getting spoiled by using voice commands


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## Dan G.

I'd love to revive this as controlling exterior heaters is exactly what I want to do. I'm putting in two Infratech heaters on the patio and would like to control them as a single unit through my RadioRA 2 system.

I realize the quoted solution requires Inclusive software. I'm wondering since so much time as passed, is there a better way to control 0-10V for the heaters today? Perhaps "better" isn't the right word. Is there a newer equivalent way for those of us that don't have access to Inclusive?

Thanks,

Dan





spiwrx said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *wkearney99*
> 
> How would one of these be used for controlling stuff like LED light tape, which are typically driven by either 12 or 24 vdc? I'm clearly missing something regarding the 'balllast' part of it.
> 
> 
> I need them for Exterior Heater Controls, but they could also be used for 0-10v dimming. Some of the better dimming drivers for LED and CFL required a 0-10v reference signal to scale the dimming. In these cases these drivers or ballasts have a separate 2 wire connection for this 0-10v signal. More common in industrial control, but also fairly common in Fluorescent Dimming as well some of the first dimmable LED drivers. It seems that most of these systems are able to get closer to 100% dimming, but undesirable due to the additional wiring and in some cases and additional relays as well. In some cases you need a switch to turn on the driver and a 0-10v (dimmer) to adjust. It all depends on the Driver mnf. whether the 0v signal will just be that or turn the driver off as well...
> 
> It's definitely not something we do everyday but I've worked out a custom circuit with the help of a controls mnf. to convert a 6NA dimmer to to a 0-5v for their specific SSR's that allow me to control 6kw heaters via a dimmer or keypad which is really nice because we can have a simple keypad out side know vs. the archaic large rotary type intensity controls common to those exterior heaters. Of coarse the Dimmers and SSR's are hidden neatly in a control cabinet somewhere.
> 
> In this pic. we are controlling 4 groups of 2x 2500watt heaters in a small restaurants patio. The Dimmer is shown here, but these are placed remotely in the restaurant, the control panel is on the roof and we have a keypad programmed for toggling each of the 4 groups, a preset scene with all 4, an "all off", plus Raise Lower for the main "local" control. A timer included in the programming shuts everything off after business hours so the employees don't forget to shut off 20,000 watts of heat.


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## spiwrx

Dan G. said:


> ...is there a better way to control 0-10V for the heaters today? Perhaps "better" isn't the right word. Is there a newer equivalent way for those of us that don't have access to Inclusive?


The LMJ-5T is the best(easiest) way but it does require inclusive software. However in my photo you shared above we used 6NA dimmers to control small control transformer & custom circuit to create an equivalent 0-10v signal from the 6NA dimmer. Fairly basic idea, take a 12v lighting transformer, rectify it, and limit the current. Doesn't take much but you'll need a 10ND or 6NA to handle the small load of the transformer. That and if you get it wrong you may destroy and SSR that aren't exactly cheap(not a good one anyway). 

I have 2 panels we're building in the shop right now for this, & built several this year. The nicest part of the RR2 control for these heaters is the simplified control by keypad or Pico. Additionally we have fail-safe to shut the heaters off every night at 3am by time-clock event. 

Either way these are fairly involved panels controlling a lot of power and you should be concerned with heat inside the panel depending on how many watts your controlling. 1 on the bench now is 3 zones controlling a total of 36,000watts!


----------



## Neurorad

I'm considering the purchase of a Connect Bridge for RA2 voice control.

Does the Bridge allow control over single dimmers, with Alexa? Or is it only KPs/scenes?


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## Dan G.

spiwrx said:


> I have 2 panels we're building in the shop right now for this, & built several this year.


Just want to make sure I understand. These panels you are building now are using the LMJ-5T or are they using the other method that does not require Inclusive? If the latter, I'd really like to understand the reasoning if using the LMJ-5T is the easiest/best way. Is it just a matter of Essentials vs. Inclusive? Cost?

Thanks very much.


----------



## spiwrx

Dan G. said:


> Just want to make sure I understand. These panels you are building now are using the LMJ-5T or are they using the other method that does not require Inclusive? If the latter, I'd really like to understand the reasoning if using the LMJ-5T is the easiest/best way. Is it just a matter of Essentials vs. Inclusive? Cost?
> 
> Thanks very much.


A few reasons:


The LMJ-5T was not available when we started making these panels _(the main reason)_
It's a simple circuit, but it's not as quick as throwing in a 5T
The 5T is a switch as well as 0-10v control _(previously we also had an RRD-8ANS for main power control via contactor(s)) _Adds more cost savings
cost is better on the 5T in addition to not having to build that circuit
We have Inclusive anyway, so that's not really a factor for us
Less space


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## ksalno

Neurorad said:


> I'm considering the purchase of a Connect Bridge for RA2 voice control.
> 
> Does the Bridge allow control over single dimmers, with Alexa? Or is it only KPs/scenes?


I have added an Alexa and Echo Dots to my home. Unless I am missing something, the only thing it will do is scenes. It does not enable control of individual devices, at least yet. It also won't allow certain scenes with words like Off and On in them, so I am not able to use my All Off scenes (without renaming them). I'm sure there may be work arounds for all of these limitations like creating phantom scenes but I will have to wait for the Christmas break before I'll have time to explore further. As a plug a play device, it's pretty limited currently in terms of what it will do.


----------



## dgage

ksalno said:


> I have added an Alexa and Echo Dots to my home. Unless I am missing something, the only thing it will do is scenes. It does not enable control of individual devices, at least yet. It also won't allow certain scenes with words like Off and On in them, so I am not able to use my All Off scenes (without renaming them). I'm sure there may be work arounds for all of these limitations like creating phantom scenes but I will have to wait for the Christmas break before I'll have time to explore further. As a plug a play device, it's pretty limited currently in terms of what it will do.


Thanks for the heads up as I was considering ordering this week. I guess I'll use CQC home automation software instead since I can setup what to control and CQC also has the ability to identify which Alexa device sent a specific command so I could potentially have a generic lighting command that works specifically to a given bedroom.


----------



## Brian Garber

ksalno said:


> I have added an Alexa and Echo Dots to my home. Unless I am missing something, the only thing it will do is scenes. It does not enable control of individual devices, at least yet.


Not my original idea but I've created a "virtual keypad" by adding a seeTouch 10 button keypad in my Equipment Room. I've assigned individual devices to a button as a "Toggle control" (for example, I assigned Island, 75%, Fade 00:00:02 to one of the buttons). Then after transferring to the main repeater, I used the Lutron app to enabled the "Island" scene from Equipment Room and to use the Voice Command "Island". Finally I had Alexa discover my scenes. 

Now I can simply say "Alexa, island on" or "Alexa, island off" to toggle my kitchen island lights. The down side is that I had to set the dimmed level to a fixed value in the Ra2 software. There isn't a way to dynamically dim (that I know of). It's pretty cool! I have one set up for the basement, kitchen, breakfast nook, hallway, mud room, etc. Works well!

-Brian


----------



## Neurorad

Phantom keypad, for Alexa commands, got it. Thanks.


----------



## jautor

Brian Garber said:


> Not my original idea but I've created a "virtual keypad" by adding a seeTouch 10 button keypad in my Equipment Room.


Do you actually need to have the seeTouch keypad present to get through the programming steps, or did you just define a true "phantom" keypad? I hope it's the latter, as I was going to follow that same path. I'd prefer not to redefine all of my keypad buttons, and don't mind duplicating the scene work to populate that phantom just for voice control.


----------



## Brian Garber

jautor said:


> ... or did you just define a true "phantom" keypad?


It is a true phantom keypad. In fact, I get a warning from Essentials telling me that during transfer the keypad is not activated, but it still shows up in the Lutron Connect app to allow you to enable voice commands for the Echo Dot.


----------



## spiwrx

Brian Garber said:


> It is a true phantom keypad. In fact, I get a warning from Essentials telling me that during transfer the keypad is not activated, but it still shows up in the Lutron Connect app to allow you to enable voice commands for the Echo Dot.


I'm not sure if that's what he means. There are default "Phantom Buttons" you'll find on the main repeater. Lets try not to confuse those with "Virtual Keypads". I didn't try to access the phantom buttons yet on Alexa, but unless you're running out of device space, then the virtual keypads would be the best way to handle I think.


----------



## dragonian

I haven't tried Alexa yet..it's on the todo list, but I did update to 10.6 this week, and I think the release notes said that you could not use Phantom buttons.
I think you will have to use an unactivated keypad in the design. I already have one that I use via the app (to group commonly used scenes)


----------



## jautor

spiwrx said:


> I'm not sure if that's what he means. There are default "Phantom Buttons" you'll find on the main repeater. Lets try not to confuse those with "Virtual Keypads". I didn't try to access the phantom buttons yet on Alexa, but unless you're running out of device space, then the virtual keypads would be the best way to handle I think.


Agreed - yes, let's keep the terminology separate since 'phantom' has meaning in RA2... But this is good news for me - I can easily create a virtual keypad to use for Alexa voice targets and not have to re-think my keypad setups. Luckily I still haven't ordered the final custom engraving for them (my temporary stickers still on more than two years I think now!!)


----------



## spiwrx

jautor said:


> Luckily I still haven't ordered the final custom engraving for them (my temporary stickers still on more than two years I think now!!)


_...almost 3 years for a couple of mine. Starting to peel but still there...._


----------



## ksalno

Brian Garber said:


> Not my original idea but I've created a "virtual keypad" by adding a seeTouch 10 button keypad in my Equipment Room. I've assigned individual devices to a button as a "Toggle control" (for example, I assigned Island, 75%, Fade 00:00:02 to one of the buttons). Then after transferring to the main repeater, I used the Lutron app to enabled the "Island" scene from Equipment Room and to use the Voice Command "Island". Finally I had Alexa discover my scenes.
> 
> Now I can simply say "Alexa, island on" or "Alexa, island off" to toggle my kitchen island lights. The down side is that I had to set the dimmed level to a fixed value in the Ra2 software. There isn't a way to dynamically dim (that I know of). It's pretty cool! I have one set up for the basement, kitchen, breakfast nook, hallway, mud room, etc. Works well!
> 
> -Brian


Thanks, this worked perfectly for me. I went with the 15 button keypad to give me room for expansion.


----------



## blue022

So much great information and knowledge here, hoping someone might be able to help me out...

We're building a new house and I've been looking at how best to setup a RadioRA2 system to control LED recessed lights. We are in CA, so we have to follow all of the T24/2016, ie JA8-2016-E rules so, for example, light fixture must not allow edison-base bulbs. There will be no attic access and ceiling is wood covered, so need to pick fixtures, wiring topology and control system that will be good for a long time. I haven't figured out which specific light fixture, but I'm thinking 0-10v dimmed light fixtures with power and dimming control lines all home run to wiring closet. Then use banks of LMJ-5T-DV-B in wiring closet to power all lighting zones. However, it doesn't seem like there is any "clean" mounting system for something like this. HWQS seems to offer those rack style power supplies, but really don't want to install a HWQS system that I can't maintain/program myself. Is there some sort of centralized-type power rack system/solution (ideally with 0-10v control) available for RadioRA? Am I missing the boat with this approach? ie, if you were building from scratch what would you do?


----------



## spiwrx

blue022 said:


> So much great information and knowledge here, hoping someone might be able to help me out...
> 
> We're building a new house and I've been looking at how best to setup a RadioRA2 system to control LED recessed lights. We are in CA, so we have to follow all of the T24/2016, ie JA8-2016-E rules so, for example, light fixture must not allow edison-base bulbs. There will be no attic access and ceiling is wood covered, so need to pick fixtures, wiring topology and control system that will be good for a long time. I haven't figured out which specific light fixture, but I'm thinking 0-10v dimmed light fixtures with power and dimming control lines all home run to wiring closet. Then use banks of LMJ-5T-DV-B in wiring closet to power all lighting zones. However, it doesn't seem like there is any "clean" mounting system for something like this. HWQS seems to offer those rack style power supplies, but really don't want to install a HWQS system that I can't maintain/program myself. Is there some sort of centralized-type power rack system/solution (ideally with 0-10v control) available for RadioRA? Am I missing the boat with this approach? ie, if you were building from scratch what would you do?


0-10v is really one of the best ways to control LED in terms of range of dimming (typically). However this level of fixture is usually higher end or commercial, and retro fitting the control wires can be a pain. Additionally, some of the retro (2-wire / triac) stuff is getting better & netter in terms of range of dimming. If you decide to go this route, also consider you will be married to that brand of lighting and the housing and driver will be specific to that brand only. 

Some of the companies are starting to use a dual rated 0-10/ELV driver. So you can use either. And look at the range difference in the specs if you are considering this. 

For the RR2 (_& HW I believe_) You will need the LMJ-5T 0-10v if you decide to go that route. You will also need the "Inclusive" software to be able to activate and program them. Typically these are mounted to a knock-out on the first fixture in it's group(zone). If you go this route and access is difficult be sure to note the serial code when you install. Additionally you will not be able to operate until programmed except for directly from the LMJ. 

If you want to remote mount these(LMJ) and you have attic/closet/cabinet space somewhere get a "gutter" or large gang box. Lutron does not offer a specific enclosure for these. Depending on how many you want to mount there you may only need a large metal box. They typically just mount to a knockout on the box and stick out. Likewise you could build a control cabinet and mount them inside. Plastic is preferred for [email protected] device enclosures for RF but you can extend the antennae wire out of a hole in a metal box if range is an issue. _(We mount these inside steel enclosure for out heater control panels and 15-20ft range is usually not a problem).

_ I don't want to talk you out of doing it, but I would think twice about it, as it will complicate the installation, require "Inclusive" software, require a specific housing (not universal) and all around be more costly. The only upside is a little range on the dimming low end and perhaps the aesthetic of the fixture?


----------



## blue022

spiwrx said:


> 0-10v is really one of the best ways to control LED in terms of range of dimming (typically). However this level of fixture is usually higher end or commercial, and retro fitting the control wires can be a pain. Additionally, some of the retro (2-wire / triac) stuff is getting better & netter in terms of range of dimming. If you decide to go this route, also consider you will be married to that brand of lighting and the housing and driver will be specific to that brand only.
> 
> Some of the companies are starting to use a dual rated 0-10/ELV driver. So you can use either. And look at the range difference in the specs if you are considering this.
> 
> For the RR2 (_& HW I believe_) You will need the LMJ-5T 0-10v if you decide to go that route. You will also need the "Inclusive" software to be able to activate and program them. Typically these are mounted to a knock-out on the first fixture in it's group(zone). If you go this route and access is difficult be sure to note the serial code when you install. Additionally you will not be able to operate until programmed except for directly from the LMJ.
> 
> If you want to remote mount these(LMJ) and you have attic/closet/cabinet space somewhere get a "gutter" or large gang box. Lutron does not offer a specific enclosure for these. Depending on how many you want to mount there you may only need a large metal box. They typically just mount to a knockout on the box and stick out. Likewise you could build a control cabinet and mount them inside. Plastic is preferred for [email protected] device enclosures for RF but you can extend the antennae wire out of a hole in a metal box if range is an issue. _(We mount these inside steel enclosure for out heater control panels and 15-20ft range is usually not a problem).
> 
> _ I don't want to talk you out of doing it, but I would think twice about it, as it will complicate the installation, require "Inclusive" software, require a specific housing (not universal) and all around be more costly. The only upside is a little range on the dimming low end and perhaps the aesthetic of the fixture?


Thank Paul! Great input!

The real reason I wanted the 0-10v control was to make sure that the fixture would not buzz when dimmed. I am very sound sensitive and that would drive me crazy. This is new construction, so easy to run any kind of control(s) wire, just need to figure it out ahead of time.

If this was your house and you had a budget of $35k for parts (ie excluding labor/install/configuration) for 15 zone lighting control system and 120 recessed can and trim, how would you set this up and wire (or pre-wire)? What would you spend on the light fixtures and what on the control system? All fixtures will be the same, so no concern there.


----------



## spiwrx

blue022 said:


> Thank Paul! Great input!
> 
> The real reason I wanted the 0-10v control was to make sure that the fixture would not buzz when dimmed. I am very sound sensitive and that would drive me crazy. This is new construction, so easy to run any kind of control(s) wire, just need to figure it out ahead of time.
> 
> If this was your house and you had a budget of $35k for parts (ie excluding labor/install/configuration) for 15 zone lighting control system and 120 recessed can and trim, how would you set this up and wire (or pre-wire)? What would you spend on the light fixtures and what on the control system? All fixtures will be the same, so no concern there.


Sound is a valid point. However most LED today use an electronic or driver-less technology so buzzing would usually be a cheap fixture or dimmer incompatibility. Getting 120 lights on that level of product will probably cost you more than half that budget. You could still do a 15zone RR2 system and that level of lighting. And be under budget, assuming your 35k is just for lights and lighting control. 

You have a lot of lighting options at that level, so make sure you get something you really like. One big thing I don't like is putting a housing in the ceiling that is proprietary to that brand. The way LED has been changing it's likely to be obsolete by the time it needs replacing and then you're stuck replacing it all. If you get a more universal product all you have to do is replace the trim / led module. I know the LED is supposed to last 30years but we've been selling it a while and let me tell you they know their warranty life pretty well and most are 3-5 years... 

In terms of control I think most of us here on this thread will agree the RR2 is a solid product, easy to program and is compatible with many other integration products and partners. I don't think you can go wrong there. You could consider HW but it will kill your budget real quick, something you cannot program yourself again something proprietary you'll be married to. It will also add substantially to to cost of installation and require more space to install.


----------



## blue022

What are people doing for sun tracking control systems to manage shades? I am hoping that there is a solid/reliable way to do this with RR2 and a dedicated PC to lookup weather conditions and calculate sun angles and to command the shades through RR2...? Are the Lutron Sivoia QS Wireless suitable for this? (ie quiet so you don't notice the frequent adjustment and durable motors to frequent adjustments throughout the day) Is there a better shade that would still work reliably through RR2? Am I asking for trouble with this approach and should look at a separate dedicated sun tracking control system? I'm trying to do this as economically as possible while still ending up with a very reliable system.


----------



## wkearney99

blue022 said:


> I'm trying to do this as economically as possible while still ending up with a very reliable system.


Oh, _aren't we all_. Trouble is, '_good, fast, cheap... pick two_' *always* gets in the way.

I have RA2 lighting and Hunter Douglas shades and there's really no decent way to get useful shade management without room-specific light level monitoring. That and seasonal conditionals. For just generic automation you might be able to get away with something simpler, but I doubt it. 

I have some shades alongside some office desk positions. Sunlight is an issue all times of the year. Certain angles, and I'm not an astronomy fan, so I don't know the correct terminology (but know enough to know I'd use the wrong ones) cast light such that shades have to be adjusted to avoid glare, both direct to the eye and reflected off monitors. So that's one issue, and one that could probably be solved with sufficient programming logic (as all of the variable are stable and predictable). But then you have to factor 'light harvesting' where you're willing to amend the amount of shade closure due to overcast or other light-reducing conditions. This is harder to do without in-room daylight sensor (or with the same exterior view as the room in question). Lutron makes some great ones but they offer no way to integrate them into RA2. HWQS, sure, but then you're greatly increasing the system cost.

I would also like 'something smarter'. But I realize that without being able to factor in-room 'light quality' it's never going to be as nice as I'd like.


----------



## blue022

wkearney99 said:


> Oh, _aren't we all_. Trouble is, '_good, fast, cheap... pick two_' *always* gets in the way.
> 
> I have RA2 lighting and Hunter Douglas shades and there's really no decent way to get useful shade management without room-specific light level monitoring. That and seasonal conditionals. For just generic automation you might be able to get away with something simpler, but I doubt it.
> 
> I have some shades alongside some office desk positions. Sunlight is an issue all times of the year. Certain angles, and I'm not an astronomy fan, so I don't know the correct terminology (but know enough to know I'd use the wrong ones) cast light such that shades have to be adjusted to avoid glare, both direct to the eye and reflected off monitors. So that's one issue, and one that could probably be solved with sufficient programming logic (as all of the variable are stable and predictable). But then you have to factor 'light harvesting' where you're willing to amend the amount of shade closure due to overcast or other light-reducing conditions. This is harder to do without in-room daylight sensor (or with the same exterior view as the room in question). Lutron makes some great ones but they offer no way to integrate them into RA2. HWQS, sure, but then you're greatly increasing the system cost.
> 
> I would also like 'something smarter'. But I realize that without being able to factor in-room 'light quality' it's never going to be as nice as I'd like.


Thanks! That definitely gives me a bunch of things to consider... I would be happy just to solve the problem of keeping "direct" sun out of everyone's eyes automatically and skip trying to do daylight harvesting. As you point out, a key challenge is to detect if its cloudy or sunny. Does anyone know of a product to do that which could be integrated with RA2? Off the top of my head, I wonder if you could take a very wide angle camera and process the image to look for a small region of light much brighter then the average of the image. Maybe use the most recent sky capture from the bloomsky camera and process it...?

Will the lutron (or other RA2 compatible shades) hold up for this application? I am concerned that "standard" motorized shades would not be expected/designed to be run something like 18k times a year (ie 5x/hr * 10 hr/day * 365day/yr).


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## wkearney99

I would like to find a way to set up some programming for shades (and lighting) that was adjusted relative to solar angles. It's not like my house windows are going to move, so it ought to be entirely predictable how to adjust the amount of shade opening based on that. Granted, it's going to be entirely site-specific, down to the seating positions even.


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## rapamatic

wkearney99 said:


> I would like to find a way to set up some programming for shades (and lighting) that was adjusted relative to solar angles. It's not like my house windows are going to move, so it ought to be entirely predictable how to adjust the amount of shade opening based on that. Granted, it's going to be entirely site-specific, down to the seating positions even.




Maybe check out http://pysolar.org/ 

Looks like it's very precise, and could likely talk to whatever control system (indigo, CQC) you have running on top of RR2, since it's just python....

Particular to Indigo there is the Cynical Weather plugin which seems to do what you want. Could be easy to download the plugin and tweak it if you use a different control system... http://www.cynic.org/indigo/plugins/online/weather.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FlyingDiver

You don't even need pysolar. The PyEphem package will give you current solar elevation and azimuth very easily.


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## spiwrx

blue022 said:


> What are people doing for sun tracking control systems to manage shades?...





wkearney99 said:


> Oh, _aren't we all_. Trouble is, '_good, fast, cheap... pick two_' *always* gets in the way....
> ...For just generic automation you might be able to get away with something simpler, but I doubt it.
> 
> I would also like 'something smarter'. But I realize that without being able to factor in-room 'light quality' it's never going to be as nice as I'd like.





blue022 said:


> ....Will the lutron (or other RA2 compatible shades) hold up for this application? I am concerned that "standard" motorized shades would not be expected/designed to be run something like 18k times a year (ie 5x/hr * 10 hr/day * 365day/yr).


How about something dumber, like a simple photocell(s) programmed through and SCI or VCRX? Not sure if this would cure it for some of your concerns but it might be something to consider. 

It terms of Life, most of the performance, more specifically geared around battery life for shades, is based on 2 cycles a day. However I think your may need to compromise on your 5x hour. This sounds great but I think you should make a compromise. I doubt you'll find any shade designed to run what you are suggesting is 50 times a day. But what are you really suggesting? Small incremental movements I would assume, which should be as much as a problem as full cycles. Either way you should factor in the minimum increment it could move which. Say it only move in inches, you may need only move it 2x /hr instead of 5. Or force it to a larger than min. increment to avoid unnecessary wear. Just food for thought. If they would allow their own damn daylight sensor to work with RR2 we may have something... or consider using it as a separate system. If it will be tracking the sun and you may only occasionally need to override it would it be that inconvenient to have it on it's own Pico controller off the RR2 system (assuming the Daylight sensor works how you want it to)


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## wkearney99

It would be a bit extreme to expect to adjust the shades any more than 2 or 3 times a day. Otherwise you'd kill the batteries. Were these hard-wired shades I'd still only use 3-4 hour 'windows of time'. Pun intended.

This is probably deserving of it's own thread, not cluttering up the RA2 one.


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## wkearney99

Anyone need any old Lutron RA1 devices? I've got a bunch of them I pulled from our old house before we tore it down.

https://*******/photos/VWZ7RDe66VGj2XR58

Replace the asterisks with 

g o o . g l

Without the spaces.


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## trx250r87

10.7 is out, but nothing too interesting added.

Eric


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## rapamatic

trx250r87 said:


> 10.7 is out, but nothing too interesting added.
> 
> Eric




I'm not seeing it yet on mylutron.com - you must have special access 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## trx250r87

You have to get creative with the download link!


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## rapamatic

trx250r87 said:


> You have to get creative with the download link!




I see that creativity doesn't seem to extend to the release notes. You're a braver man than me!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## trx250r87

No, but the release notes are available after the install. 
New Features include dealer contact info. 
Improvements include fix to issue where HVAC schedule tweaks from LHC+ and Lutron Control apps fail on touchPro Thermostats, and fixed issue with blind controls.


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## rapamatic

trx250r87 said:


> No, but the release notes are available after the install.
> New Features include dealer contact info.
> Improvements include fix to issue where HVAC schedule tweaks from LHC+ and Lutron Control apps fail on touchPro Thermostats, and fixed issue with blind controls.




Dealer contact info - Yay!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## wkearney99

trx250r87 said:


> You have to get creative with the download link!


As in, go to your My Lutron page and change the 6 to a 7.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/RadioRA2/RadioRA+2+10.7-full.exe

I'm always leery of downloading new RA2 software, there's been a few hiccups with past revs. 

And, what're you doing, randomly trolling the URLs for new revisions?


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## wkearney99

Tangentially, I want to let folks know that one of our members lost a family member recently. Paul's (spirwx here) mother, and owner of Hank's Electric passed away (cancer, apparently).

I'm grateful to have Paul's participation here on AVS. The great pricing and fantastic support have been much appreciated. Sorry to hear of his loss.


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## freeoscar

So sorry to hear about Paul's mother. He has been a big help to me as well. On that note, I wanted to say a hearty thank you to all those on this forum (and the Lutron RadioRa2 forum which has a large overlap of readership) who have directly and indirectly helped me design my system. Moved into the newly renovated house a few weeks ago and finally go my system programmed and running. It is fantastic. I have it hooked up to Alexa and that integration is very smooth and something my family adores.


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## skywaterbanjo

Without the spaces.[/quote]
Can you PM me and give me an email address to contact you? I may be interested in some of the RadioRA stuff. Thanks, Mark


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## spiwrx

Thanks to all of you on your kind words and well wishes. I appreciate it. Some of you reached out to me directly that was also very kind of you. Along with my mother passing I also had a snowboarding accident (broke a rib) and my main computer had catastrophic hard drive failure. My mom (Betty) said bad things always happen in 3's, so hopefully I'm covered for a while... 

Anyway, If I had missed something in the thread or email it was for one of those reasons....


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## spiwrx

So one of my main reasons for posting today was my last customer yesterday in store was replacing a hybrid keypad that had literally melted. The damage is consistent to what we normally see in devices (Dimmers, switches, outlets, gfci's) with a loose wire, or one that had come loose. In this case he had back-stabbed the wiring, which it is rated for, but severely frowned upon. IF you are going to back stab the wiring there is a "strip length gauge" molded into the dimmer/keypads backside case. I say take the extra minute to actually wrap and screw down the wire, especially if you care for you home, safety, or at least a $250 device. 

Accidents like this do prove the N.E.C. codes and listed products help prevent injury and fire, so please follow them... If you don't have the experience of an electrician to know what, when, where and why, then please ask here or on other forums. There are lots of people & places to get help.


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## Ziba Ji

how is radio ra 2 compatibility with logitech harmony? my magnolia installers are insisting on c4 instead!


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## freeoscar

Ziba Ji said:


> how is radio ra 2 compatibility with logitech harmony? my magnolia installers are insisting on c4 instead!


Not great. As far as I am aware, the only way to have the harmony control Radio Ra2 is to have a W5BRLIR keypad in line of sight of the Harmony, and then the Harmony can activate only the scenes you have mapped to that keypad. There is no direct link between the Connect Bridge and the Harmony as is the case with the Caseta SmartBridge. For a home theatre area it suffices though.
I would add that RadioRa2 can link with the Amazon Echo, as does the Logitech, so you can also create actions that way, and it works well in my experience.


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## intake

Looks like the Connect Bridge is finally getting the Siri treatment.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lutron-simplifies-the-connected-home-at-ise-2017-612989413.html


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## freeoscar

intake said:


> Looks like the Connect Bridge is finally getting the Siri treatment.
> 
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/lutron-simplifies-the-connected-home-at-ise-2017-612989413.html


That's great - Is Grafik RA2 the European nomenclature for Radio Ra2? Hopefully this is just a firmware upgrade for the Connect Bridge and doesn't require new hardware.


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## schalliol

Yes!!

Finally no more ridiculousness of having to put an Amazon product in every room.


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## schalliol

Actually...GRAFIK RA 2 only? That's a single area system. Since HWQS supports it, it doesn't sound like the device number limitation previously discussed is the issue.

I hope Radio RA 2 is in too.


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## pglover19

Has anyone interfaced the RadioRa 2 system with a Honeywell Vista 20p security panel? I am interested in the experience. I have been trying to find some literature on the setup and what is needed, but there is not a lot of information on the internet. I did all the setup and configuration of the vista 20p panel myself. So, I am very familiar with programming the Honeywell security panel.

Here is what I obtained so far:

Requirements
To interface a RadioRA® 2 system with a compatible Honeywell VISTA panel , you will need:
• RadioRA® 2 system with Main Repeater (RR-MAIN-REP-WH)
• RadioRA® 2 programming software version 6.2 or higher
• Honeywell VISTA security panel with minimum firmware version:
– 3.13 for Vista-21iP
– 9.12 for Vista-15P, -20P
– 10.3 for Vista-128BPT, -128FBPT, -32FBPT
– 10.4 for Vista-250BPT, -250FBPT
• Honeywell Connected Building Module (4232CBM)
• Null Modem Serial Cable or Null Modem Adapter with a Straight-through Serial Cable
• General understanding of RadioRA® 2 systems and Honeywell VISTA security panel 


As far as programming in the RadioRA 2 system, it looks like you program phantom buttons 76-100 based on the security trigger (ARM AWAY, ARM STAY, etc.).


----------



## freeoscar

pglover19 said:


> Has anyone interfaced the RadioRa 2 system with a Honeywell Vista 20p security panel? I am interested in the experience. I have been trying to find some literature on the setup and what is needed, but there is not a lot of information on the internet. I did all the setup and configuration of the vista 20p panel myself. So, I am very familiar with programming the Honeywell security panel.
> 
> Here is what I obtained so far:
> 
> Requirements
> To interface a RadioRA® 2 system with a compatible Honeywell VISTA panel , you will need:
> • RadioRA® 2 system with Main Repeater (RR-MAIN-REP-WH)
> • RadioRA® 2 programming software version 6.2 or higher
> • Honeywell VISTA security panel with minimum firmware version:
> – 3.13 for Vista-21iP
> – 9.12 for Vista-15P, -20P
> – 10.3 for Vista-128BPT, -128FBPT, -32FBPT
> – 10.4 for Vista-250BPT, -250FBPT
> • Honeywell Connected Building Module (4232CBM)
> • Null Modem Serial Cable or Null Modem Adapter with a Straight-through Serial Cable
> • General understanding of RadioRA® 2 systems and Honeywell VISTA security panel
> 
> 
> As far as programming in the RadioRA 2 system, it looks like you program phantom buttons 76-100 based on the security trigger (ARM AWAY, ARM STAY, etc.).


One thing to be aware of is that you cannot use both the 4232CBM and a Tuxedo Touch. That was my original plan, but now I'm trying to figure out what to do. I can go with a Lutron VCRX and at least get the flashing lights upon alarm activation, and then opt to use one or both of the contact closure inputs to get one or the other states. Not ideal, but not the worst option either.


----------



## pglover19

freeoscar said:


> One thing to be aware of is that you cannot use both the 4232CBM and a Tuxedo Touch. That was my original plan, but now I'm trying to figure out what to do. I can go with a Lutron VCRX and at least get the flashing lights upon alarm activation, and then opt to use one or both of the contact closure inputs to get one or the other states. Not ideal, but not the worst option either.



According to the URL below, you can use the 4232CBM with Tuxedo Touch keypads. The Vista 20p panel is capable of handling 4 Tuxedo Touch keypads. You will need an auxiliary power supply if you connect more than 1 Tuxedo keypad. The 4232CBM will take up 1 of the slots so you are now limited to 3 Tuxedo keypads.


https://www.alarmgrid.com/products/honeywell-4232cbm


----------



## pglover19

pglover19 said:


> According to the URL below, you can use the 4232CBM with Tuxedo Touch keypads. The Vista 20p panel is capable of handling 4 Tuxedo Touch keypads. You will need an auxiliary power supply if you connect more than 1 Tuxedo keypad. The 4232CBM will take up 1 of the slots so you are now limited to 3 Tuxedo keypads.
> 
> 
> https://www.alarmgrid.com/products/honeywell-4232cbm



Well I found more information about the interface of the Honeywell Vista 20p panel to the RadioRa 2 system. I found a document called "Interfacing Lutron® RadioRA® 2 Systems with
Honeywell VISTA Security Systems using the 4232CBM" and it states that the interface uses a standard keypad in *190 - *196 with an address of 17-23 and not a AUI keypad in *189 with an address of 1,2,5, or 6. The Tuxedo keypads uses an AUI address. So, it looks like I can use all 4 of my Tuxedo keypads with the 4232CBM interfaced to the RadioRa 2 system.


----------



## freeoscar

pglover19 said:


> According to the URL below, you can use the 4232CBM with Tuxedo Touch keypads. The Vista 20p panel is capable of handling 4 Tuxedo Touch keypads. You will need an auxiliary power supply if you connect more than 1 Tuxedo keypad. The 4232CBM will take up 1 of the slots so you are now limited to 3 Tuxedo keypads.
> 
> 
> https://www.alarmgrid.com/products/honeywell-4232cbm


I guess if you don't use Total Connect with the Tuxedo keypads you can have both connected, but even that link clearly states that you can have either the 4232CBM or the TT with TC 2.0 as the panel can only have 1 RIS, but not both. I want the ability to remotely alarm (or disarm) the system, so I'm not aware of a way to do this while also having the 4232CBM module. Is there a workaround you know of, or do you not utilize the remote arming functions of the Tuxedo Touch?


----------



## pglover19

freeoscar said:


> I guess if you don't use Total Connect with the Tuxedo keypads you can have both connected, but even that link clearly states that you can have either the 4232CBM or the TT with TC 2.0 as the panel can only have 1 RIS, but not both. I want the ability to remotely alarm (or disarm) the system, so I'm not aware of a way to do this while also having the 4232CBM module. Is there a workaround you know of, or do you not utilize the remote arming functions of the Tuxedo Touch?


I am self-monitored using the Eyez-on evl-4 module. This thing works great. Very responsive and I can arm/disarm the alarm system with my iPhone. Check it out...


----------



## schalliol

I highly recommend the 2GIG GC3 if anyone is in the market. It's beautiful, integrates well with Lutron RR2 (and Caseta), features Z-Wave PLUS for other automation, has WiFi to be unlocked in the future, has everything in one package so you only have to run power, supports 2-Way Voice etc. At my house I put in garage door opener controllers and from the same app (or Apple Watch app) I can change Lutron settings, open or close garage doors, arm the system etc.

I liked it so much I decided to become an alarm.com dealer and 2GIG installer. Happy to help anyone. Self monitoring is possible cheaply.


----------



## schalliol

In another round of ridiculousness, Lutron just confirmed there will be a gen 2 bridge that will enable the support for Siri/HomeKit (and I don't know what else, if anything). It was 10 months ago that the bridge started shipping.

I sure hope they do an upgrade program. This just embarassing product management.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> In another round of ridiculousness, Lutron just confirmed there will be a gen 2 bridge that will enable the support for Siri/HomeKit (and I don't know what else, if anything). It was 10 months ago that the bridge started shipping.
> 
> I sure hope they do an upgrade program. This just embarassing product management.


Agreed. They're just ruddlerless in the face of emerging tech.


----------



## markrubin

quick question about Cree bulbs:

I am relamping my HT, replacing first gen LED bulbs that required one regular incandescent bulb to be left in each circuit to dim properly

the new bulbs are CREE Par 30 Long neck 40 degree flood sku 4966500836

I was able to get 5 of them from Home Depot: tested them (on a Lutron Grafik Eye) and they work fine

they are used for down lighting in recessed cathedral ceiling fixtures that vary from 9-15 feet high

now I go back to Home Depot to buy more and all they have are the same thing with 25 degree coverage: and the lighting manager claims they never carried the 40 degree bulbs 

question is does it make a big difference if I have a mix of both 25 and 40 degree?


----------



## schalliol

markrubin said:


> question is does it make a big difference if I have a mix of both 25 and 40 degree?


Thanks for visiting our quaint thread, man, that's an awesome number of posts…

I'm not sure you'd want to mix and match them. Maybe if you can put them on each end of a room that could work, but 25 to 40 degrees is a big swing.


----------



## smoothtlk

MarkRubin,
Check into these so that all of your lights can be same LED:

http://www.automatedoutlet.com/product-p/ilr-10k.htm


----------



## Ziba Ji

schalliol said:


> I highly recommend the 2GIG GC3 if anyone is in the market. It's beautiful, integrates well with Lutron RR2 (and Caseta), features Z-Wave PLUS for other automation, has WiFi to be unlocked in the future, has everything in one package so you only have to run power, supports 2-Way Voice etc. At my house I put in garage door opener controllers and from the same app (or Apple Watch app) I can change Lutron settings, open or close garage doors, arm the system etc.
> 
> I liked it so much I decided to become an alarm.com dealer and 2GIG installer. Happy to help anyone. Self monitoring is possible cheaply.


this looks like giving screen


----------



## schalliol

Ziba Ji said:


> this looks like giving screen


I'm not sure I understand. Sorry if I'm missing it.


----------



## schalliol

BTW 11.0 is out with support for HomeKit on the not available Connect Bridge 2. It also supports loopback protection in this build


----------



## pglover19

I could not get the Honeywell Vista 20p panel with the 4232CBM module to integrate with the RadioRa 2 main repeater. I upgraded to the Vista 128BPT panel with the onboard RS232 and now it is working great.


----------



## pglover19

wkearney99 said:


> As in, go to your My Lutron page and change the 6 to a 7.
> 
> https://s3.amazonaws.com/RadioRA2/RadioRA+2+10.7-full.exe
> 
> I'm always leery of downloading new RA2 software, there's been a few hiccups with past revs.
> 
> And, what're you doing, randomly trolling the URLs for new revisions?



Can you provide a personal link to the 11.0 full version of RadioRa 2 essentials software. 

Thanks,


----------



## spiwrx

pglover19 said:


> Can you provide a personal link to the 11.0 full version of RadioRa 2 essentials software.
> 
> Thanks,


The software is not to be openly shared. If you complete the free training, the software and support material are free to you anyway. Simply log in to your myLutron account or set one up. Please don't share software on/in this thread it is not freeware, shareware, or anything of that nature. Additionally the training will answer a lot of the common questions and problems that pop up as well as make you aware of the product specifics and applications. This will also keep you up to date on future upgrades. 

http://www.lutron.com/_trust/defaul..._layouts/myLutron/Forms/HomePageRedirect.aspx


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> quick question about Cree bulbs:
> 
> I am relamping my HT, replacing first gen LED bulbs that required one regular incandescent bulb to be left in each circuit to dim properly
> 
> the new bulbs are CREE Par 30 Long neck 40 degree flood sku 4966500836
> 
> I was able to get 5 of them from Home Depot: tested them (on a Lutron Grafik Eye) and they work fine
> 
> they are used for down lighting in recessed cathedral ceiling fixtures that vary from 9-15 feet high
> 
> now I go back to Home Depot to buy more and all they have are the same thing with 25 degree coverage: and the lighting manager claims they never carried the 40 degree bulbs
> 
> question is does it make a big difference if I have a mix of both 25 and 40 degree?


Sorry to chime in late on this but I wanted to clarify the statement you made "._..that required one regular incandescent bulb to be left in each circuit to dim properly..._" This is often the easiest and cheapest way to get this to work, but the real problem is the wrong dimmer typically. In the case of RR2 you probably need the RRD-6NA or 10ND dimmer to correct this, or if on the Grafik Eye, you may need a PHPM Dimming interface. The GE is usually pretty tolerant but does have something like a 25watt minimum. The 6NA and 10ND both require neutral connections but get you down to 5watt and 10watt minimums respectively. Or you can use something like the Lutron MLC or Load resistor linked below. Additionally Lutron has a dummy load as well thats both expensive and bulky. Often we need to add load so we'll take a small keyless lamp holder and hide it in an attic or closet. If the light will bother you, you can spray the lamp with heat resistant paint, like engine block paint. Typically a 25watt lamp and socket will set you back less than $5 but it's a lot cheaper than most of the other options if you already have a dimmer in place that doesn't play well. 

In terms of the 25 degree vs. 40 degree, the LED and supporting electronics are presumably the same, just the optics or lens are typically different. So functionally it shouldn't matter. However the light distribution is obviously way different. If for general down lighting and average ceiling height the 40 is more desirable typically. However for higher ceilings or for lighting specific features or objects we may use a narrower beam.


----------



## spiwrx

I'm sure this is buried somewhere in this thread but it comes up a lot in my day to day, so here it is again. Minimum and maximum laod ratings per the common RR2 devices. If your device isn't listed this is usually the first thing on the instruction sheet.


----------



## pglover19

I finally got my access to MyLutron.com today after passing the Lutron BLAST 1 training class several days ago. I can now download RadioRa 2 Essentials software version 11.0


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## spiwrx

For those of you following along on the Lutron Forum there will be a CONNECT-BDG*2* with Homekit support as mentioned in the version 11 software notes. It's not available yet, but I will be doing the same pre-release kind of deal we did with the original CONNECT-BDG. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm really pissed about how they handled this, my thoughts mirror plenty of yours as I've discussed with many of you in email already. As soon as I know more I will post details.


----------



## Ziba Ji

spiwrx said:


> For those of you following along on the Lutron Forum there will be a CONNECT-BDG*2* with Homekit support as mentioned in the version 11 software notes. It's not available yet, but I will be doing the same pre-release kind of deal we did with the original CONNECT-BDG. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm really pissed about how they handled this, my thoughts mirror plenty of yours as I've discussed with many of you in email already. As soon as I know more I will post details.


I am down for one. Is it same for Alexa? I am also seeking a few radiora dimmers too


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## DMILANI

Thanks Paul, I may order one as well, depending on what this really brings to the table. I currently use my Amazon DOT with Lutron and it works OK. We are an Apple family (iPhones, iPads, Mac), but to tell the truth we don't use Siri that much. Is this all that Homekit really provides? Or is there something more?

Thanks,
Dino



spiwrx said:


> For those of you following along on the Lutron Forum there will be a CONNECT-BDG*2* with Homekit support as mentioned in the version 11 software notes. It's not available yet, but I will be doing the same pre-release kind of deal we did with the original CONNECT-BDG. Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm really pissed about how they handled this, my thoughts mirror plenty of yours as I've discussed with many of you in email already. As soon as I know more I will post details.


----------



## spiwrx

DMILANI said:


> Thanks Paul, I may order one as well, depending on what this really brings to the table. I currently use my Amazon DOT with Lutron and it works OK. We are an Apple family (iPhones, iPads, Mac), but to tell the truth we don't use Siri that much. Is this all that Homekit really provides? Or is there something more?


Dino, I'm in the same boat, we have a lot of Apple stuff but rarely use Siri and I have nothing else that I know of that works with Siri/Homekit. The New bridge is supposed to only address this homekit issue. It's still unclear if it will also do Echo and now Google has a similar product as well... 

I like the Amazon/Echo/Dot/Alexa thingy. I just ordered a couple wall mounts so they just plug in and will sit behind my end-table and nightstand in the 2 rooms I'm using them. So out of site, but works just fine. 

The DOT really made me re-think some of my programming to work with it's limitations, mostly in the Use of Scene's vs. Path (toggle). I like using Scenes , but as the Alexa has grown popular with my wife and kids they just want to turn things on & off and don't really understand "scene" lighting. 

From the Lutron thread it's suggested:
"Apple requires a physical chip and a HomeKit code on all HomeKit products to ensure quality so a gen 2 bridge will be coming out with the HomeKit chip. Unfortunately a firmware update wouldn't be enough to enable this feature. *This will be the only difference between the gen 1 bridge and new gen 2 bridge*. HomeKit will control lighting zones and shades, if scene control is desired the scenes will need to be created within the Apple Home app." 
"March/April release of the gen 2 bridge."

I think there was also some limitation to the number of devices the Homekit can control but it was a reasonable number.


----------



## pglover19

I am loving my RadioRa 2 system. This lighting system is awesome.


----------



## wkearney99

pglover19 said:


> I am loving my RadioRa 2 system. This lighting system is awesome.


It's even better when you get everything 'dialed in' with just the right scenes. I've had great luck lately with the Ra2 plug-in for Homeseer 3. It's an added cost but given the Ra2 price-point (especially compared to HWQS) it's been worth it to have conditional logic. I still have a bunch of things setup through timeclock events, like vacation away schedules.


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## freeoscar

spiwrx said:


> HomeKit will control lighting zones and shades, if scene control is desired the scenes will need to be created within the Apple Home app."
> "March/April release of the gen 2 bridge."
> 
> I think there was also some limitation to the number of devices the Homekit can control but it was a reasonable number.


Interesting - if the scenes have to be set up through Homekit, in addition to that being a total PITA, I wonder if it will result in a 'popcorn' effect. At any rate, just having to set up new scenes through Homekit makes it inferior to the Alexa option.
I believe the Homekit device limit is 99. Which could certainly be an issue for some.


----------



## schalliol

I'm glad you deliberately set up the commands. That way you can program them for natural speaking in a different way from keypad programming.


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## Foos-Man

*Outdoor lighting and keypad*

Putting in a pool and adding some lighting. We will have 3 outdoor lights: 1) Covered patio can lights, 2) Flood lights, 3) Post lights. I am considering using a wall keypad (non-hybrid) to control all 3. Questions:
1) I assume it is like the table top version in that I can assign each button a separate toggle action and have independent control of all 3 lights?
2) Is there a Pico remote that can do the same...independent control of all 3 lights? I prefer the size of the buttons on the Pico 3-button switch.
3) How is the usability of a keypad to use as on/off "light switches"? I don't like the idea of a wall of separate switches. I also have a fan switch and breakfast nook switch in this gang box, so separates would end up with 5 switches. However, I'm not sure how usable the small switches will be. 
4) What is the range of the keypad? My understanding is it talks directly to the switches and not the base. The post light switch will need to be outside and I'm trying to determine where to put it.

Thanks!


----------



## wkearney99

Foos-Man said:


> Putting in a pool and adding some lighting. We will have 3 outdoor lights: 1) Covered patio can lights, 2) Flood lights, 3) Post lights. I am considering using a wall keypad (non-hybrid) to control all 3. Questions:
> 1) I assume it is like the table top version in that I can assign each button a separate toggle action and have independent control of all 3 lights?
> 2) Is there a Pico remote that can do the same...independent control of all 3 lights? I prefer the size of the buttons on the Pico 3-button switch.
> 3) How is the usability of a keypad to use as on/off "light switches"? I don't like the idea of a wall of separate switches. I also have a fan switch and breakfast nook switch in this gang box, so separates would end up with 5 switches. However, I'm not sure how usable the small switches will be.
> 4) What is the range of the keypad? My understanding is it talks directly to the switches and not the base. The post light switch will need to be outside and I'm trying to determine where to put it.


What does you integrator respond to these questions? Because when you get into controlling motor loads like pools it goes beyond most DIY project skills.

Each button of an in-wall keypad can act as a toggle, yes, and that can include multiple devices or just one.

Each load requires a device to control it. Options are the typical 1 gang switch or dimmer, a junction box-attached switch (goes into a 1/2" knockout), a 6-gang control or a panelized 6-zone dimmer. Pretty much in order of increasing cost/complexity.

A hybrid keypad can control one load, in addition to being a keypad for others. Every load requires at least 1 gang position. The device can be 'anywhere' within the residence, it doesn't have to be out on a wall in view. It could be off in a utility closet, down in a basement, where ever (within RF range and in reasonable heat/cold conditions).

When you speak of keypad, do you mean the in-wall, the ridiculously over-priced 5-15 button tabletop keypads, or Pico remotes? The range on any of them tends to favor being no farther than 50ft from a repeater (main or aux). The rated distance of 30' is a good 'safe bet' for varying construction materials/methods. Some folks get more, but I'd never expect more than 50' and would plan for a repeater if it was in the 45-55' range. 45 and under I'd start with just the main/secondary repeaters and see if that works.


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## Foos-Man

wkearney99 said:


> What does you integrator respond to these questions? Because when you get into controlling motor loads like pools it goes beyond most DIY project skills.
> 
> 
> 
> Each button of an in-wall keypad can act as a toggle, yes, and that can include multiple devices or just one.
> 
> 
> 
> Each load requires a device to control it. Options are the typical 1 gang switch or dimmer, a junction box-attached switch (goes into a 1/2" knockout), a 6-gang control or a panelized 6-zone dimmer. Pretty much in order of increasing cost/complexity.
> 
> 
> 
> A hybrid keypad can control one load, in addition to being a keypad for others. Every load requires at least 1 gang position. The device can be 'anywhere' within the residence, it doesn't have to be out on a wall in view. It could be off in a utility closet, down in a basement, where ever (within RF range and in reasonable heat/cold conditions).
> 
> 
> 
> When you speak of keypad, do you mean the in-wall, the ridiculously over-priced 5-15 button tabletop keypads, or Pico remotes? The range on any of them tends to favor being no farther than 50ft from a repeater (main or aux). The rated distance of 30' is a good 'safe bet' for varying construction materials/methods. Some folks get more, but I'd never expect more than 50' and would plan for a repeater if it was in the 45-55' range. 45 and under I'd start with just the main/secondary repeaters and see if that works.




I am the integrator. I am not planning on controlling motor loads. I failed to mention that I will have 2 CL switches in the bedroom and the third switch will be outside in a weatherproof enclosure. No need for a hybrid switch. I'm looking for the best option to control 3 switches. I don't think range is an issue based on experiments I did today with a table top switch. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wkearney99

Foos-Man said:


> I am the integrator.


Then you've completed the Ra2 online LCI training, yes? Which covers this kind of stuff. 



> I am not planning on controlling motor loads. I failed to mention that I will have 2 CL switches in the bedroom and the third switch will be outside in a weatherproof enclosure. No need for a hybrid switch. I'm looking for the best option to control 3 switches. I don't think range is an issue based on experiments I did today with a table top switch.


What model number are you talking about when you mention 'table top switch'?

Because there is nothing from Lutron for Ra2 that qualifies as a _table top switch_. There's a table dimmer, there's wired and battery operated table top keypads, there's Pico remotes (with table pedestals, wall plate brackets and visor clip mounts) and then there's in-wall keypads (that just control scenes) and a hybrid keypad that also has a dimmer in it.

One thing I know is successful Ra2 installs benefit from having a solid plan, figured out ahead of time. There's a lot of ways to set these up and taking a one-a-time approach typically runs into some complications that might not otherwise come up if a good plan was done at the start. Stuff like having neutrals, proper switches based on lighting loads (types, wattage, quantity) and the like are all complications that come up with retrofit and DIY expansions. Been there, done that, wished I'd started with a better 'bigger picture'.

Maybe a little more explanation of what you're planning would help better answer your questions.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Putting in a pool and adding some lighting. We will have 3 outdoor lights: 1) Covered patio can lights, 2) Flood lights, 3) Post lights. I am considering using a wall keypad (non-hybrid) to control all 3. Questions:
> 1) I assume it is like the table top version in that I can assign each button a separate toggle action and have independent control of all 3 lights? YES
> 2) Is there a Pico remote that can do the same...independent control of all 3 lights?  I prefer the size of the buttons on the Pico 3-button switch. NO - Pico is Scene based. On a regular Wall Keypad you can get spaced buttons which may help. Pico would be Scene 1, Scene 2, Scene 3, and OFF. If you can adapt to Scene's rather than toggle would be ideal for Pico's
> 3) How is the usability of a keypad to use as on/off "light switches"? I don't like the idea of a wall of separate switches. I also have a fan switch and breakfast nook switch in this gang box, so separates would end up with 5 switches. However, I'm not sure how usable the small switches will be. For simple toggling the keypad would be fine. If you get a Keypad with Raise/Lower, those buttons effect the last button pressed. Remember, unless you are using a Hybrid keypad this is only a control. You would still need these switches to exist somewhere, the keypad just tells them to operate. In the case of the Hybrid keypad it can control/connect one of you lighting loads only as to replace possibly a switch or dimmer already existing but it is not rated for fans.
> 4) What is the range of the keypad? My understanding is it talks directly to the switches and not the base. The post light switch will need to be outside and I'm trying to determine where to put it. Yes & No, All communications go through the main and/or auxiliary repeater to ensure the signal was sent/received. The range is rather understated at 30ft. In practice it can easily go double that. They only guarantee 30ft. If the range is exceeded then you have to add auxiliary repeater(s). This is not a mesh network, which is what you are describing. They both arguably have their pro's & con's but if you follow Lutron's recommendations you shouldn't have any problems with range.
> 
> Thanks!


See my responses inset in your Quote above in red. 

As suggested, I highly recommend taking advantage of the LCI free Lutron training. It will almost always answer many of these basic system questions.


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## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> See my responses inset in your Quote above in red.
> 
> As suggested, I highly recommend taking advantage of the LCI free Lutron training. It will almost always answer many of these basic system questions.


Paul is an excellent source of info and materials.

A point of note, it is not currently possible to directly use a Pico buttons as a toggle within the Lutron system alone. You can set each button to do whatever you want, they don't all have to be tied to the same devices. But each button press is going to fire just one scen, not a room monitor (which would be a toggle). The scene can have any number of devices in it, including setting some devices on, off, fans fast/slow, or whatever. 

But it is possible using a 3rd party system to detect use of Pico buttons. It's then possible to use that kind of system to trigger other actions. Which could include toggling devices.


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## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> See my responses inset in your Quote above in red.
> 
> As suggested, I highly recommend taking advantage of the LCI free Lutron training. It will almost always answer many of these basic system questions.




Thanks. I've done the training, but it's been awhile since I've messed with the system. I'm up to my ears in pool construction, so did not have much time on this, so your response is helpful. I will have switches in place for the wall keypad to control. Current wiring:
Flood light: switch in master bedroom
Patio light: 3-way switch, master bedroom and breakfast
I don't want to pull flood light wiring to the breakfast, thus the reason for the wall keypad. 
The third switch is trickier, this is a new outdoor circuit for a light that is fed from the pool breaker. I am looking at putting a RR2 switch outdoors (yuck). I have a tabletop keypad (5 button) and decided to test the range from the backyard to the main repeater. The range does not seem to be an issue...actually, the range is great.

Any thoughts on the outdoor switch? 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dgage

Foos-man - I'll add that I love my hybrid keypads, which are great for labeling buttons and controlling lights even if the original switch locations are inconvenient. No idea on an outdoor switch.


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## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Thanks. I've done the training, but it's been awhile since I've messed with the system. I'm up to my ears in pool construction, so did not have much time on this, so your response is helpful. I will have switches in place for the wall keypad to control. Current wiring:
> Flood light: switch in master bedroom
> Patio light: 3-way switch, master bedroom and breakfast
> I don't want to pull flood light wiring to the breakfast, thus the reason for the wall keypad.
> The third switch is trickier, this is a new outdoor circuit for a light that is fed from the pool breaker. I am looking at putting a RR2 switch outdoors (yuck). I have a tabletop keypad (5 button) and decided to test the range from the backyard to the main repeater. The range does not seem to be an issue...actually, the range is great.
> 
> Any thoughts on the outdoor switch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I have my exterior and pool light switches in a proper weatherproof box and cover outside and they are going on year 2 at our new home with no issue. Because of distance to my main repeater I used all plastic boxes and cover, though I don't know if it was necessary. Also I'm about 1 mile from the ocean so the regular metal weatherproof stuff doesn't last as long here. 

Additionally I use a VCRX and some relays as my Pool Control Panel. We have a spa that spills into a pool, and it controls the valves, heater, blower(bubbles), pool motor (high/low speed) I have it all programmed to work on a time clock, I have an interior keypad for handling all my pool stuff. My 7 button Keypad is marked:


"Ext. Lights" [Toggle](RR2 Switch in exterior box / original switch location)
"Pool Timer" [Scene](VCRX + Pentair variable speed control module): Turns valves to pool position and motor to slow speed, heater off, on/off on daily scheduled times)
"Pool High" [Scene](VCRX + Pentair variable speed control module): Turns valves to pool position and motor to high speed)
"Spa" [Scene](VCRX + Pentair variable speed control module): Turns valves to Spa position, pool lights on and motor to 3/4 speed, turns heater on)
"Heater" [Toggle](VCRX.) Toggles heat in case I do not want it on with the Spa or I do want it in a pool mode)
"Bubbles" [Toggle](VCRX) Toggles blower on/off as necessary, run through a 2pole relay so it only can come on, if the Spa mode is on)
"Pool Off" [Scene](VCRX). This is more of an emergency stop. But it instantly shuts motor, heater, blower and pool lights off)
So by default this is always on "Pool Timer". We never (hopefully) need to use the "Pool Off". So say I want to go in the Spa, we hit spa and use it, then get out and through scene programmed "Pool Timer" it in a very specific order:

Spa: 


Turns Pool lights on, Pump to high speed, valves to spa, and heater on. (I don't always like the bubble so that's on it's own button to toggle)
 Pool Timer:


 Shuts off the pool lights for instant visual verification.
Instantly turns off the heater (if on)
Lets the pump run high 5 minutes to cycle water through the heater
After 5 minutes pump switches to low and valves are reset to "Pool".
Another 5 minutes the pump stops. (Schedule starts again the following morning and my pool runs on low daily for about 12 hours).
Even though I think my heater has a flow detection and other safety's, because I use a low (variable) speed / long run time pump, anytime we press a button to low speed or in my case "Pool Timer" we are sure to send a heater off command. This is a safety concern when using a heater and low speed pump(& older pool equipment). Additionally I have a button for my pool cleaner near the equipment wired to VCRX input, so he can get the motor up to speed for his cleaning equipment and the addition of chemicals. If I forget the pool schedule returns the motor to low speed on the next timer schedule. 

A lot of thought when into the specific scene programming of the Pool Timer & Spa features but are a good example of why the can be very helpful when you want something done very specifically. The control box wiring isn't for the faint of heart, but it was rather simple for me. And now with the connect bride app I can have my spa heated by the time I get home from work, or I can just tell Alexa to start the spa.

Getting you're head wrapped around "Scenes"isn't always easy, especially for someone new to this in lighting control. But I always tell people to record their actions, either mentally or on paper. If you have regular routines, you can turn them into simple single button presses and get the most out of this automation. Another way to think of scenes is as events. Say in a theater, you might have a movie scene and an intermission scene. Probably immediately you'll all have ideas on what those would mean to you. But it's the same with a lot of things you do. For me I have a Morning scene, that lights my way down the stairs (on as bright as I need), down stairs hallway and kitchen counter lights and to the mornings first emergency, coffee.... Because for some reason I can do all this but I cannot remember to set up my coffee the night before! As I leave the door on my way to work the away button shuts all that down but leaves my porch light on. Then the wife and kids do there things, and at 9a.m. I have a schedule turn off all the things the wife and kids left on in their rush to work & school. We also have a dog button, that leaves some lights on for our dogs on the occasion we might be away at night.


----------



## Foos-Man

wkearney99 said:


> Paul is an excellent source of info and materials.
> 
> But it is possible using a 3rd party system to detect use of Pico buttons. It's then possible to use that kind of system to trigger other actions. Which could include toggling devices.


Good point. I have some Raspberry Pi code I wrote that logs into the main repeater and captures all commands and can issue responses. I had intended to use this to raise/lower Somfy curtains from the table top keypad, but decided to use SimpleControl on an ipad instead. I don't know why I didn't think of using a RPi to re-direct Pico remote commands. It adds another fail point, but otherwise should work.


----------



## wkearney99

Foos-Man said:


> It adds another fail point, but otherwise should work.


This is the challenge for any automation system. I'll give Lutron some credit, they've made the main repeaters rock-solid reliable and quick to reboot. I put devices like this on a UPS to avoid any interruptions. Using a Pi runs into the potential issues with microSD card corruption/reliability. That and basic linux housekeeping (like logs filling up the drive). Whatever you do, document it. That'll help weeks/months/years later when you (or someone else) is trying to figure it out.


----------



## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> Getting you're head wrapped around "Scenes"isn't always easy, especially for someone new to this in lighting control


Wow Paul. I am impressed with your pool setup. I'm getting excited to see what I can do with RR2. You bring up a good point on scenes...with 3 sets of lights outside it actually might be better to use scenes vs. multiple button presses. I could see: 1) scene for just the upper patio lights on 2) scene with all lights on, 3) all off...that's about it!

I'm having a Pentair system installed that has Screen Logic to control the Easytouch panel. I would really like to find a way to interface my Lutron keypad/ scenes to the Screen Logic controller. The Screen Logic interface can be used to turn the new outside light on and off via a relay in the panel. I can go from the keypad -> RasPi -> Screen logic. I haven't found much on Screen Logic interfacing...might have to break out wireshark.


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## Foos-Man

wkearney99 said:


> This is the challenge for any automation system. I'll give Lutron some credit, they've made the main repeaters rock-solid reliable and quick to reboot. I put devices like this on a UPS to avoid any interruptions. Using a Pi runs into the potential issues with microSD card corruption/reliability. That and basic linux housekeeping (like logs filling up the drive). Whatever you do, document it. That'll help weeks/months/years later when you (or someone else) is trying to figure it out.


I am blown away with how rock solid my Lutron RR2 is. I also have it on a UPS along with a closet full of stuff including multiple RPI's. I definitely cannot remember 2 weeks later what I've done, so I keep good notes in ascii files. I keep the Pi backed up on DropBox. RPI's are also super reliable. I use a Pi as a home theater HUB for a simplecontrol remote (ipad). It handles translation from IP commands to 2 RS-232 ports for curtains and projector. I'm almost done having it emulate Belkin WeMo devices, so I can interface to my Alexa and control RR2 devices without the bridge as well as macros on a Universal Remote controller. It's starting to get a little over complicated


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> I am blown away with how rock solid my Lutron RR2 is. I also have it on a UPS along with a closet full of stuff including multiple RPI's. I definitely cannot remember 2 weeks later what I've done, so I keep good notes in ascii files. I keep the Pi backed up on DropBox. RPI's are also super reliable. I use a Pi as a home theater HUB for a simplecontrol remote (ipad). It handles translation from IP commands to 2 RS-232 ports for curtains and projector. I'm almost done having it emulate Belkin WeMo devices, so I can interface to my Alexa and control RR2 devices without the bridge as well as macros on a Universal Remote controller. It's starting to get a little over complicated


I'm a big fan of the PI but only used it for Retro-Gaming and KODI/PLEX stuff. Real interested to know what you are running on the PI to to interface with RR2? Probably beyond want I need but I'm interested. 

I was looking at the pentair control, but the cost and functionality were both way more than I wanted and I just need to run my pump on a schedule and turn on my SPA. A VCRX, Keypad and 1 additional Dimmer for the lights, was way less than the Pentair controls. I was hoping the pump would work on contact closure or 0-10v but I wasn't that lucky I had to buy their little control module for around $100 to get multiple speeds.


----------



## smoothtlk

spiwrx said:


> I'm a big fan of the PI but only used it for Retro-Gaming and KODI/PLEX stuff. Real interested to know what you are running on the PI to to interface with RR2? Probably beyond want I need but I'm interested.
> 
> I was looking at the pentair control, but the cost and functionality were both way more than I wanted and I just need to run my pump on a schedule and turn on my SPA. A VCRX, Keypad and 1 additional Dimmer for the lights, was way less than the Pentair controls. I was hoping the pump would work on contact closure or 0-10v but I wasn't that lucky I had to buy their little control module for around $100 to get multiple speeds.



Paul, take a look at the Autelis Pentair pool controller. Much better than Pentair's and less expensive too.


----------



## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> I'm a big fan of the PI but only used it for Retro-Gaming and KODI/PLEX stuff. Real interested to know what you are running on the PI to to interface with RR2? Probably beyond want I need but I'm interested.


Let me dust off the code and I'll post something...I might need a week or two. Simply sending RR2 commands is easy as there are scripting languages that handle the telnet connection, etc quite nicely. I have an example of this that I tested for interfacing with Alexa. If you are trying to monitor commands and respond, ex: listen for a key press and do something then it's a bit trickier. Most of lines of code I wrote deals with ensuring the connection is active...handling cases where the main repeater goes down, internet connection goes down, etc.


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## Brian Garber

Foos-Man said:


> Let me dust off the code and I'll post something...I might need a week or two. Simply sending RR2 commands is easy as there are scripting languages that handle the telnet connection,


Here are the Python scripts that I wrote which runs on my RPi. "radiora2.txt" (change to radiora2.py) is a class, so you would create an object in another main script (see applianceModule.txt). Please excuse my coding! The applianceModule.py is called with a crontab job on the RPi to toggle an appliance module (I'm not very creative with my naming conventions). It's a simple example but gives a good idea on how to interface to the main repeater just using telnet.

Thanks,
Brian


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## HDengineer

Paul,

Great write up on your pool setup. Would you be willing to share a picture or two of the relay panel you built?


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## spiwrx

HDengineer said:


> Paul,
> 
> Great write up on your pool setup. Would you be willing to share a picture or two of the relay panel you built?


Not sure if I shared them before. The first one is my pool panel, not particularly proud of the mess but I was mid-troubleshooting and installing the Pentair adapter when I took the shot. The pictures that follow are some other RR2 and Lutron integrated heater control panels we build for customers. The second pic controls 3 zones of 2x 6000watt heaters each for a total of 36,000watts!! (150amps just for heaters!) of exterior patio heaters. The third is a more common build for about 10,000watts, and controlled with a simple DIVA dimmer. For the heater control panels we prefer the RR2 control as we can set up some timers but we can also do it with simple PICO control without a full system. The biggest draw is we can use a simple keypad or app to control the heaters and the controls provided by the manufacturer are normally more expensive and have a pretty old school infinity type knob control which gets quite large when we have 3 zones. We can keep it in a single keypad or pico depending on the button requirements... 

The Pentair varispeed pump and controller were an afterthought and the controller requires some DC power, It happen to be within the same spec as the VCRX power supply, so I just tapped off that. So far so good..... I could provide a schematic but despite the looks the theory is pretty simple: the VCRX outputs controlling 3small relays (heat/blower/valve) and 1 main large relay for the pump._[Edit, to clarify, the large relay powers both the pump and heater main power, the small heater relay emulates the power/selector switch of my particular heater. So power to the heater is applied anytime the pump is on, but it doesn't come "on" until the second relay or unit switch is activated]_ The transformer was sized for the 2 valves to operate simultaneously and made sure all the relays operate on the same voltage (24vac) as the VCRX can only control ow voltage. The Pentair controller inputs are just attached to the corresponding relay coil or output for what ever its programmed to. So say when I hit the spa button the corresponding valve position is triggered and tapped to the input of the Pentair adapter to give me my desired pump speed for "Spa". When it's rest to it's normal run mode "Pool Timer" the valve switches back and triggers the low speed. Additionally, I have a switch on the outside of the enclosure wired to the VCRX inputs to allow pool cleaner the ability to bring the pump to high speed for cleaning and chemical distribution. I was going to just use an even more accessible PICO for exterior operation, but I was worried about having a Pico outside and he has to access the pool equipment to clean my basket and filters any way.


----------



## Foos-Man

Nice job, I like it. I'm putting together a few enclosures for my pool and have some questions. My electrician has decided he only uses 8x8x6 PVC enclosures. I ran my conduit assuming a 12x12x6 Cantex PVC enclosure with six 3/4" conduits coming up from the bottom...so I'm going to install a 12x12x6 box myself. What is the best way to bring PVC conduit into the box? Did you use a male adapter to MPT with a locknut? I also need to attach a transformer and a RR2 switch to the enclosure. Are your screws embedded in the PVC or did you use a nut on the back of the box?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## smoothtlk

Foos-Man,
We use PVC boxes similar to Spiwrkx but that are a little different as they have "cam locks" instead of screws to hold the O'ringed cover on. Just a little easier to repetitively remove the covers without wearing out the threads. I can't remember their brand name...I'll look in the shop and post back.

We use weathertight PVC male adapters, usually on the bottom, sometimes on the sides, that have O'rings on them as well. We also just for kicks throw a dab of silicone on the inside of the box before we put the nuts on. Unfortunately HomeDepot doesn't sell these weathertight fastners so you might have to go to a real electrical supply place that has them in droves.

To mount the boxes, some have ears on the outside of the box. Those are nice so there are no protrusions thru the interior. For those that don't we drill thru the box and put silicone on the fastener. We also put a dam of silicone on the top of the exterior of the box where the box meets the back plate to divert all water over the sides and not behind the box. For the jobs that require a backplate, we attach the PVC to the backplate via the moulded nuts on the back of the PVC box, and then secure the backplate / box to the structure. That way, no protrusions into the box.

To mount stuff like a transformer in the box, we make a wood backplate that fits inside of the box, and then mount the transformer to that so we have the ability to put "random" screws in (to fit the footprint of the transformer). Again, that way, no protrusions into the PVC.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> *Getting you're head wrapped around "Scenes" isn't always easy*, especially for someone new to this in lighting control. But I always tell people to record their actions, either mentally or on paper. If you have regular routines, you can turn them into simple single button presses and get the most out of this automation. Another way to think of scenes is as events. Say in a theater, you might have a movie scene and an intermission scene. Probably immediately you'll all have ideas on what those would mean to you. But it's the same with a lot of things you do. For me I have a Morning scene, that lights my way down the stairs (on as bright as I need), down stairs hallway and kitchen counter lights and to the mornings first emergency, coffee.... Because for some reason I can do all this but I cannot remember to set up my coffee the night before! As I leave the door on my way to work the away button shuts all that down but leaves my porch light on. Then the wife and kids do there things, and at 9a.m. I have a schedule turn off all the things the wife and kids left on in their rush to work & school. We also have a dog button, that leaves some lights on for our dogs on the occasion we might be away at night.


I use HS3 to detect when an 'Area Off' button is tapped in the home office. It drops the lights in that room. and then if it's after 10pm, but before sunrise, it brings up some path-oriented lighting in other areas, with a delay added to turn them back off again after a few minutes. 

Where things get more complicated is deciding whether to set some of the lights to a specific dim level OR detect that they're already lit and leave them alone. HS3's event logic editor can be a little limited, necessitating chaining events together instead of having multiple nested conditionals.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Nice job, I like it. I'm putting together a few enclosures for my pool and have some questions. My electrician has decided he only uses 8x8x6 PVC enclosures. I ran my conduit assuming a 12x12x6 Cantex PVC enclosure with six 3/4" conduits coming up from the bottom...so I'm going to install a 12x12x6 box myself. What is the best way to bring PVC conduit into the box? Did you use a male adapter to MPT with a locknut? I also need to attach a transformer and a RR2 switch to the enclosure. Are your screws embedded in the PVC or did you use a nut on the back of the box?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This is just a 12x12x4 Carlon box, they just use a stainless self threading screw. It does suck for re-work, but if you're careful not to strip and chase threads it's fine. I've been in and out of this one a handful of times and it's still fine. Some of the nicer and a lot more expensive PVC boxes have those features like cam locks, hinged covers or brass threaded inserts. It's important to note you want a NEMA 4 rating or better on these type of enclosure for good weather/water protection. _( Nema 4X = IP66 (international standard), but I think there are more options in IP standards that you could get away with IP54 or maybe less, I'm only mentioning it because there are some really nice IP boxes you can find on the internet, note some of the IP boxes may not have a USA listing like UL. UR, or ETL and may not be acceptable by an inspector) _

I just used the regular PVC male fittings and lock nuts but I added some O-rings like the ones that come with the seal tight(flexible PVC) connectors. Might have been overkill but I was concerned with the keeping the VCRX as dry as possible. Some of the wiring to the valves and control cable from the pump are exterior rated and just come through a strain relief cable gland and back filled w/ silicone. I also like to use the silicone grease("magic lube") on the o-rings and especially the box cover o-ring. 

The box is supported on the original steel posts driven into the ground with some framing "U" channel as additional support. 

Like SMOOTHTLK, we also have back plate for mounting. Though I prefer steel or aluminum over the wood. Some now also come with plastic back plates. You need to be careful ordering some of these plastic enclosures as you may have to order back plates, back plate mounting hardware all separately depending on the manufacturer. 

So far so good, the box is always dry and going on almost 3 years of operation. 

I hadn't really checked since I installed it, but happen to get my power bill this weekend and says we're saving 23% over last year and that's the only thing we changed. The pump now runs at about 12hours at low speed/power (vs. the 8hrs, the old pump was running inefficiently) We had some utility incentives which brought the ROI of my pump to about 8 months.


----------



## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> This is just a 12x12x4 Carlon box, they just use a stainless seld threading screw. It does suck for re-work, but if you're careful not to strip and chase threads it's fine. I've been in and out of this one a handful of times and it's still fine. Some of the nicer and a lot more expensive PVC boxes have those features like cam locks, hinged covers or brass threaded inserts.
> 
> I just used the regular PVC male fittings and lock nuts but I added some O-rings like the ones that come with the seal tight(flexible PVC) connectors. Might have been overkill but I was concerned with the keeping the VCRX as dry as possible. Some of the wiring to the valves and control cable from the pump are exterior rated and just come through a strain relief cable gland and back filled w/ silicone. I also like to use the silicone grease("magic lube") on the o-rings and especially the box cover o-ring.
> 
> The box is supported on the original steel posts driven into the ground with some framing "U" channel as additional support.
> 
> Like SMOOTHTLK, we also have back plate for mounting. Though I prefer steel or aluminum over the wood. Some now also come with plastic back plates. You need to be careful ordering some of these plastic enclosures as you may have to order back plates, back plate mounting hardware all separately depending on the manufacturer.
> 
> So far so good, the box is always dry and going on almost 3 years of operation.
> 
> I hadn't really checked since I installed it, but happen to get my power bill this weekend and says we're saving 23% over last year and that's the only thing we changed. The pump now runs at about 12hours at low speed/power (vs. the 8hrs, the old pump was running inefficiently) We had some utility incentives which brought the ROI of my pump to about 8 months.


Thanks. This helps a lot. I'm planning to use a box with tabs so I can directly mount it to the house. Cantex makes several. I also need to drive a single sprinkler valve for the pool, as a semi-auto fill feature. I like your choice of transformers better as it includes mounting tabs. I just picked up a Rainbird transformer used in their outdoor controllers, but don't see an easy way to attach this to the box.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Thanks. This helps a lot. I'm planning to use a box with tabs so I can directly mount it to the house. Cantex makes several. I also need to drive a single sprinkler valve for the pool, as a semi-auto fill feature. I like your choice of transformers better as it includes mounting tabs. I just picked up a Rainbird transformer used in their outdoor controllers, but don't see an easy way to attach this to the box.


Some times they come with a 90deg "L" bracket for mounting by that threaded neck (1/2" NPT). Or you can make one. If you are building a box you may want a mounted outlet internally to plug in the main repeater and other stuff, you can use a standard electrical box with KO's (knock-outs) and mount it off of one of those to kill two birds. could also be another possible use for the back-plate mentioned above, though you'll want to drill another hole an grommet to run the wiring back to through to the front. Don't forget to put a fuse on that transformer if not included. It should be there by code, but those small transformers are easy to kill with a small short.


----------



## spiwrx

The Connect-BDG2 is supposed to ship in April, but we all know how that went last time. So I'm not promising anything. I still don't have a quote but rumored to be the same price, and I will go ahead and assume it will eventually replace the current bridge as it's supposed to be compatible with Homekit and Alexa/Echo/Dot (do we have a unified name for this yet?) 

I will offer the same pre-sale / initial shipment discount. So I'll post up when I have a written confirmed price (hopefully this week) Some of you have already contacted me, but I'll just post up a link when I get the details ironed out. 

No rumors yet whether the Google device (Google Home?) will ever be included. 

Homekit wasn't immediately clear to me, but it does require one of the later Apple TV units. The requirements below are for Caseta, but I would assume the connectivity requirement for the RR2 version in terms of Apple equipment would be the at least the same or similar:

*Apple Requirements:*
An iPhone®, iPad®, or iPod® touch with iOS 8.3 or later is required for HomeKit. You can check your iOS version in Settings > General > About > Version.
For remote access you’ll need to have a third generation or later Apple TV with software version 7.0 or later in your home. Follow the steps here to make sure you have a supported Apple TV: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200008.
Remote access through Apple TV may require you to log out of iCloud® and log back in on your Apple TV.
Tip: Siri® will be more responsive if you set the “Sleep After” setting to “Never” in Settings > 
If you have any other issues setting up Apple TV, please contact Apple Customer Support.
IOS 9.0 required for shades.


----------



## Foos-Man

I uploaded a few Raspberry Pi Lutron RR2 utilities in case anyone is interested. I still need to clean up some other code to publish which is a client that manages a telnet connection with the main repeater, listens and can issue commands. I'm putting all the code here:
https://github.com/Foosman/RPI-Lutron-RR2

1) xml_parse
This is written in 'C', my preferred language. Sorry, I'm old school! It is probably 3 lines in Java/etc 
This performs a HTTP GET request to the main repeater and parses the result to help you figure out the integration ID of your lights. It is pretty basic and focuses on lights. Here is an example output:

Successful connection to Lutron repeater
Size of GET request response: 48185
Light 0: Output Name="Family Rm: fan light kit" IntegrationID="27"
Light 1: Output Name="Hallway: master/laundy" IntegrationID="24"
Light 2: Output Name="Front door: chandelier" IntegrationID="22"
Light 3: Output Name="Master bed: fan light kit" IntegrationID="20"
Light 4: Output Name="Front porch: recessed" IntegrationID="18"
Light 5: Output Name="Outside garage: sconce" IntegrationID="13"
Light 6: Output Name="Kitchen: sink" IntegrationID="26"
Light 7: Output Name="Kitchen: main" IntegrationID="3"
Light 8: Output Name="Game Rm: fan light kit" IntegrationID="4"
Light 9: Output Name="Upstairs Hallway" IntegrationID="12"

2) telnet_script
This is a 21 line "expect" script. I stumbled across "expect" recently which no decent programmer would admit to using  but it is really simple and gets the job done. This will telnet into your main repeater and fire off a command. This is useful if you have other code that you want to interface with RR2 to just turn a light on or off. The README has some examples of turning a light on and off, but here is how I would turn off my Famly Rm: fan light kit which has integration ID 27:
telnet_script 192.168.0.115 lutron integration "#OUTPUT,27,1,0"


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## spiwrx

Not sure if you all remember the fiasco of the First Connect Bridge's delivery date that kept getting pushed back, so don't shoot the messenger...

Accepting pre-orders now, supposedly to begin shipping next month. I'm not going to set a cut-off date until I get an actual ship date but if you would like to pre-order here you are. If you haven't used the new website yet you need to login in first the link will take you to the product page if you have auto-login or it will prompt you to. If you have trouble login and search "connect2" on our page. If you don't already have a login w/ permissions for RR2 email me direct paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net, I need to set you up before you will be able to find and/or order this. Same pre-sale price as last time, add to cart and pricing will discount. If you are adding anything just email me your list. Adding at least a single dimmer or switch should get you to free shipping....


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## HDengineer

*Inclusive software differences*

Hello,

I recently completed the Lutron RadioRA2 training and received access to the essentials software. I would like to take a look at the inclusive software, but there isn't any training scheduled for my area (I'd take it if I could). If anyone has a suggestion on how to take a look at a recent copy of inclusive I'd appreciate it.


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## spiwrx

HDengineer said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently completed the Lutron RadioRA2 training and received access to the essentials software. I would like to take a look at the inclusive software, but there isn't any training scheduled for my area (I'd take it if I could). If anyone has a suggestion on how to take a look at a recent copy of inclusive I'd appreciate it.


It doesn't look any different, it only allows you to add a second main repeater and unlocks a few obscure parts that are not available in essentials. 

If you have a more specific feature or function you are hoping to find there, please let me know and we can address it directly.


----------



## spiwrx

I like to publicize my short comings in RR2 programming here so that hopefully you all will not make the same mistakes or at least have heard of them as something to look for...

[bantering you can glaze over]
So I still blame version 10.2 of the software because I think it was released for a day or 3 before it was replaced by 10.4 ( I think they just skipped 10.3 altogether but don't quote me on that). It's Friday and I just want to go home and try and get a 1998 Atari "Area 51 Site 4" arcade game up and working again... (Craigslist find) 

So I started a rather large programming job for a client, 96 devices, 3500sqft home. It all went very well until 1 day I updated to 10.2 in one of the initial programming sessions. All devices were in place and preliminarily programmed and working fine, both locally and in the APP. (really never had a job go as smooth as this up until this point). So after some light level adjustments I decided to do an update and that's where the 10.2 got involved. So it seemed as it was a smooth update until I left the job. Customer called a few hours later complaining that some buttons did nothing and lights were coming on at random. We discussed timeclocks that day so I assumed it had left a light on a time schedule I demonstrated. And not all the buttons had been programmed yet so I thought it was just that... So I returned the next day, she said it was happening all night. When I finally got logged back in (which at this point connecting to the repeater became almost impossible) I noticed a hand full of buttons (like 20 or more) had now all had 5 minute "On-Delay" settings. This was our random lights. They would press a programmed button though nothing happened pressed a couple more and nothing. Until 5 minutes later when they had forgot what they had done and light started popping on or off. This was easy to resolve but I do not how it ended up there. But I had to go through the hole system to see which buttons were effected. At the same time it wasn't initially obvious but 3 of 4 Grafik Eyes had dropped off the APP. they all worked fine and the loads ("Lights") in the app still showed and were operable individually, however the keypad portion of the GE was not on the app anymore... Well I'll skip to the end but it involved a locked up main repeater that had to be replaced but the actual cause of the GE problem was it was unchecked from the device integration. You see you can make devices unavailable on the APP, I think we discussed previous in the thread, and with the same mystery as the on delay, the GE's were effected. It took some help from Lutron but they finally pointed out my now obvious error, I just needed some one Else's eyes on it I guess. It was instantly obvious but for the life of me I still don't know how it got that way to begin with.....


----------



## HDengineer

My primary frustration is that I would like to control a landscape transformer. I don't have any reasonable way to add a switch for this, so I would need the relay module. It looks like this is only available to inclusive?

I have read several grumblings about scene sharing, but I don't see any way to do that and it wasn't in the training, so I assume that also is inclusive only? If so, I'd like to understand why it is important. I can copy and paste scenes in essentials, so is the idea of sharing to save time when making a scene change on larger systems?

Finally, I would like to use variables and if/then style statements (ie only use vacancy setting if the initial scene state is off). Is this available to inclusive? If not, I suppose it could be automated externally via the RS232 port? If so, I suppose I could use an arduino for some external automation.


----------



## lleo_

HDengineer said:


> My primary frustration is that I would like to control a landscape transformer. I don't have any reasonable way to add a switch for this, so I would need the relay module. It looks like this is only available to inclusive?


You have plenty of options to control a landscape transformer without inclusive access, you are over-engineering it with a relay module, why not just simply plug an appliance module between your wall outlet and transformer?



HDengineer said:


> I have read several grumblings about scene sharing, but I don't see any way to do that and it wasn't in the training, so I assume that also is inclusive only? If so, I'd like to understand why it is important. I can copy and paste scenes in essentials, so is the idea of sharing to save time when making a scene change on larger systems?


just take your time and program the scenes individually, the grumblings you read are from people who do this for living and for them it does make a difference to spend extra half-hour on each system. You do it once, and not look at it for years.



HDengineer said:


> Finally, I would like to use variables and if/then style statements (ie only use vacancy setting if the initial scene state is off). Is this available to inclusive? If not, I suppose it could be automated externally via the RS232 port? If so, I suppose I could use an arduino for some external automation.


RA2 does not have conditionals in any level, can be integrated well though with an open and widely supported protocol. I also have a Homeworks QS system to sell you if you can pay for that.


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## FlyingDiver

HDengineer said:


> Finally, I would like to use variables and if/then style statements (ie only use vacancy setting if the initial scene state is off). Is this available to inclusive? If not, I suppose it could be automated externally via the RS232 port? If so, I suppose I could use an arduino for some external automation.


RRA2 doesn't do conditional logic. You need an external controller for that. You can communicate with the repeater via serial or IP (telnet protocol).


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## schalliol

Here are three low voltage landscape transformers connected to RRD-8ANS. No conditional logic, but they turn on at the right offset to sunset, work with keypads, picos and apps just great.


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## spiwrx

HDengineer said:


> My primary frustration is that I would like to control a landscape transformer. I don't have any reasonable way to add a switch for this, so I would need the relay module. It looks like this is only available to inclusive?


 RRD-8AND/ RRD-8DV / RRD-6CL / RRD-10ND or plug in appliance module or lamp dimmer (300watt). All viable options... Unless you are talking about breaking up a single transformer into zones, then you need multiple transformers & dimmers or relays as you suggest. Even then an VCRX gets you 4 zones and some small relays are cheap. Using the transformer as it's own control voltage, source some 12vac relays and be on your way... I can help you with a schematic if needed email me... 



HDengineer said:


> I have read several grumblings about scene sharing, but I don't see any way to do that and it wasn't in the training, so I assume that also is inclusive only? If so, I'd like to understand why it is important. I can copy and paste scenes in essentials, so is the idea of sharing to save time when making a scene change on larger systems?


 a "Shared Scene" is like the default "All On / All Off". I'm pretty sure you can create these in essentials, it's not as obvious but I if you scroll down in in the list for button programming you should find "Shared Scenes" and you should find a list and a spot to create your own. The main advantage from my POV for a shared scene, is that if you make a change on one keypad and it is a shared scene, all other buttons using that same shared scene are also adjusted. If you just copy and paste buttons, any changes to one, have to be manually adjusted in the other buttons you pasted to or you have to additionally re-copy & re-paste. BTW, if you didn't know you can copy and paste the entire keypad by right clicking in the wallplate area instead of a button directly. You need to be pasting to a similar keypad, (e.g. you cannot paste a 6 button to a 4) 



HDengineer said:


> Finally, I would like to use variables and if/then style statements (ie only use vacancy setting if the initial scene state is off). Is this available to inclusive? If not, I suppose it could be automated externally via the RS232 port? If so, I suppose I could use an arduino for some external automation.


 As mentioned, there are no conditionals in RR2, none. That being said there are some work-around's and 3rd party stuff touched on in the thread previously. I like to use VCRX for everything. At the moment I can't remember the exact details but I know we've wired the I/O's on the VCRX to do stuff like only have motion detectors for halls active only at night. Or a little more involved have a motion close a garage if it's left open and after a certain time.


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## spiwrx

*s*

It appears the 2nd Generation Connect-BDG2 has just started shipping, some of you should start seeing them show up anytime. One of you should have your today even... 

Let us know how it goes with the Homekit integration please! I won't be doing this one myself as I'm on Echo Dot and loving it. So until I get another programming job requesting one I won't have a chance to play with it myself....


----------



## schalliol

I'm that guy, but alas, I can't put it in yet. Looking forward to hearing what you find. Thanks!


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## Atypicalguy

Hello and thanks for an informative thread. I am in the middle of a large remodel and will be putting in a limited amount of RR2, for interior lighting primarily. Shopping for home security however I realized that I would like the security system to be able to turn on all the lights, based upon motion or glass breakage etc. I will also have twelve music zones on a casatunes server and it would be great to have it turn outside speakers on in response to motion etc., or speak through the speakers via phone by internet through the security camera android app. 

What sort of security hardware/software would allow control of the RR2 lighting and audio most easily? I need to spec a security system and am not sure what to buy (or if they even work, but having it turn music and lights on and off responsively would seem to be a worthwhile deterrent strategy). 

Thanks,
Karl


----------



## sbarnesvta

Atypicalguy said:


> Hello and thanks for an informative thread. I am in the middle of a large remodel and will be putting in a limited amount of RR2, for interior lighting primarily. Shopping for home security however I realized that I would like the security system to be able to turn on all the lights, based upon motion or glass breakage etc. I will also have twelve music zones on a casatunes server and it would be great to have it turn outside speakers on in response to motion etc., or speak through the speakers via phone by internet through the security camera android app.
> 
> What sort of security hardware/software would allow control of the RR2 lighting and audio most easily? I need to spec a security system and am not sure what to buy (or if they even work, but having it turn music and lights on and off responsively would seem to be a worthwhile deterrent strategy).
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl



There is some limited functionality that can be done between RA2 and Honeywell Vista Panels. 

In the past the only way I have been able to accomplish this is to integrate everything with a third part control system (Crestron or RTI). You can use the alarm system to trigger anything else the control system can talk to.


----------



## spiwrx

Atypicalguy said:


> Hello and thanks for an informative thread. I am in the middle of a large remodel and will be putting in a limited amount of RR2, for interior lighting primarily. Shopping for home security however I realized that I would like the security system to be able to turn on all the lights, based upon motion or glass breakage etc. I will also have twelve music zones on a casatunes server and it would be great to have it turn outside speakers on in response to motion etc., or speak through the speakers via phone by internet through the security camera android app.
> 
> What sort of security hardware/software would allow control of the RR2 lighting and audio most easily? I need to spec a security system and am not sure what to buy (or if they even work, but having it turn music and lights on and off responsively would seem to be a worthwhile deterrent strategy).
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl


Karl, personally I haven't done much with integrating alarms with RR2 but others are and maybe they can chime in. I know it is supposed to work with Alarm.com which I think opens the doors some more options and control, but specifically they only have these notes on the support website:

Alarm.com integration: http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProte... Security Modes and Alarm.com Integration.pdf

Honeywell Vista128 Panel (VCRX): http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/048451.pdf

Honeywell with 4232CBM: http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/048488.pdf

Honeywell's take on RR2: https://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/solutions/integration/lutron/faqs/index.html

General/Basic Security System integration through contact closure (VCRX): http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/048362.pdf


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## dgage

Atypicalguy said:


> Hello and thanks for an informative thread. I am in the middle of a large remodel and will be putting in a limited amount of RR2, for interior lighting primarily. Shopping for home security however I realized that I would like the security system to be able to turn on all the lights, based upon motion or glass breakage etc. I will also have twelve music zones on a casatunes server and it would be great to have it turn outside speakers on in response to motion etc., or speak through the speakers via phone by internet through the security camera android app.
> 
> What sort of security hardware/software would allow control of the RR2 lighting and audio most easily? I need to spec a security system and am not sure what to buy (or if they even work, but having it turn music and lights on and off responsively would seem to be a worthwhile deterrent strategy).
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl


A better place for that question is the Cocoontech forums, which is focused on automation and security with many industry guys (and enthusiats) that help out immensely. I use CQC (CharmedQuark) as my control software (runs on Windows) but there are several choices.


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## smoothtlk

Atypicalguy said:


> What sort of security hardware/software would allow control of the RR2 lighting and audio most easily? I need to spec a security system and am not sure what to buy (or if they even work, but having it turn music and lights on and off responsively would seem to be a worthwhile deterrent strategy).
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl


CQC, Homeseer and certainly Allonis's myServer can do exactly what you want.
They all support ELK security systems which is highly recommended.
The ELK supports full 2 way integration.

The "Master Controller" applications support other security panels as well, but those panels don't provide quite the same level of integration.
The ELK can swap a less capable security panel and reuse most all sensors.

myServer supports RadioRA2 (and Caseta, Homeworks, Insteon, Z-Wave, others).

The Master Controllers all support control of Media hardware and streaming services.
The myServer controllers are also streaming renderers (Pandora, Google Music, etc).


----------



## Atypicalguy

smoothtlk said:


> CQC, Homeseer and certainly Allonis's myServer can do exactly what you want.
> They all support ELK security systems which is highly recommended.
> The ELK supports full 2 way integration.
> 
> The "Master Controller" applications support other security panels as well, but those panels don't provide quite the same level of integration.
> The ELK can swap a less capable security panel and reuse most all sensors.
> 
> myServer supports RadioRA2 (and Caseta, Homeworks, Insteon, Z-Wave, others).
> 
> The Master Controllers all support control of Media hardware and streaming services.
> The myServer controllers are also streaming renderers (Pandora, Google Music, etc).


Can this Allonis server generate multiple simultaneous feeds? Does one simply add as many sound cards as needed? Can one select higher or lower end sound cards?

Seems like a matrix switch is in order, and probably one with a separate eq on each output.

How would I get sound from my AV receiver back up to this server and down again to various zones? Say I want the CD player output to go to the whole house?

Thanks.


----------



## DMILANI

For simplicity, I recommend a 2GIG GC3 panel. It integrates easily with Radio RA2 through an Alarm.com account, and I have mine setup to turn on all interior lights and flash the porch lights whenever the panel goes into alarm. There are two general purpose trigger outputs from the panel that you could use to trigger your sounds system. 

http://2gig.com/products/control-panels-keypads/gc3-panel/

Plus, the GC3 panel can act as a Z-Wave controller to accomplish other types of automation based on alarm activity, etc.


----------



## smoothtlk

Atypicalguy said:


> Can this Allonis server generate multiple simultaneous feeds? Does one simply add as many sound cards as needed? Can one select higher or lower end sound cards?
> 
> Seems like a matrix switch is in order, and probably one with a separate eq on each output.
> 
> How would I get sound from my AV receiver back up to this server and down again to various zones? Say I want the CD player output to go to the whole house?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi, yes, multiple feeds work. You need to have a unique Pandora account for each (and Google Music etc). Yes, you can add sound cards. You are limited to 4 outputs from any one of the streaming services (7.1) It is highly unusual for requiring more. Keep in mind that is concurrent usage. If you require more, we can modify the software for that. On some streams you can also stream 4 more to DLNA devices or to web clients or to remote PCs. Yes, you can upgrade the card. 

You can also use a whole house audio amp for the matrix ability. myServer's sound drivers includes eq ability and a customizable user interface for it.

Yes, AV matrix switches are also supported to tell them which source, which output(s) to use.

You can use the sound card Mic Input. But...we recommend to rip the music to hard drives. We have a solution just for that. Much easier than a CD player.


----------



## Atypicalguy

DMILANI said:


> For simplicity, I recommend a 2GIG GC3 panel. It integrates easily with Radio RA2 through an Alarm.com account, and I have mine setup to turn on all interior lights and flash the porch lights whenever the panel goes into alarm. There are two general purpose trigger outputs from the panel that you could use to trigger your sounds system.
> 
> http://2gig.com/products/control-panels-keypads/gc3-panel/
> 
> Plus, the GC3 panel can act as a Z-Wave controller to accomplish other types of automation based on alarm activity, etc.


Thanks but I am hard wiring everything. That panel is wireless.


----------



## Atypicalguy

smoothtlk said:


> Hi, yes, multiple feeds work. You need to have a unique Pandora account for each (and Google Music etc). Yes, you can add sound cards. You are limited to 4 outputs from any one of the streaming services (7.1) It is highly unusual for requiring more. Keep in mind that is concurrent usage. If you require more, we can modify the software for that. On some streams you can also stream 4 more to DLNA devices or to web clients or to remote PCs. Yes, you can upgrade the card.
> 
> You can also use a whole house audio amp for the matrix ability. myServer's sound drivers includes eq ability and a customizable user interface for it.
> 
> Yes, AV matrix switches are also supported to tell them which source, which output(s) to use.
> 
> You can use the sound card Mic Input. But...we recommend to rip the music to hard drives. We have a solution just for that. Much easier than a CD player.


So the server would also fully control an AV receiver driving surround sound and a projector, and take an audio feed from the internet video and send that audio to the whole house amp?


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## smoothtlk

Yes, the server would control the AV receiver (via a serial cable, ethernet or worse case, IR).
and yes, the server can also be a streaming renderer that can be plugged into whole house audio (like a russound MCE88 or Nuvo Grand Concerto) audio input(s).
The Server would also control the whole house audio matrix amp. (which Source, which Zone(s), what volume, turn on and off)


----------



## spiwrx

*d*

No one has really asked me, but this just became available for Caseta and straight from the RR2 page they published this recently:

* "Google Assistant Integration.*

*Coming Soon!*
Lutron just announced a new integration with Google Home that allows homeowners to easily control their RadioRA 2 lighting systems using the Google Assistant, offering a greater flexibility and peace of mind. Now – with a few words – you can have hands-free assistance controlling lights in your connected home, whether you’re in your living room relaxing on the couch, or out of town on vacation."


----------



## freeoscar

Thanks for the head's up Paul. I wonder if you'll need the newer Connect Bridge or if the original one will work w/Google Assistant. Unlike HomeKit I don't think there are any hardware specific requirements which would preclude the original bridge, but who knows with Lutron.


----------



## dgage

freeoscar said:


> Thanks for the head's up Paul. I wonder if you'll need the newer Connect Bridge or if the original one will work w/Google Assistant. Unlike HomeKit I don't think there are any hardware specific requirements which would preclude the original bridge, but who knows with Lutron.


I'm pretty sure there will be another hardware revision to add Google access. Haha. Just kidding...but barely.


----------



## spiwrx

Anyone here a Control4 dealer, I need to help a customer out and get 2 brown switches. Please email me directly if you can. paul (at) hankselectric (dot) net


----------



## spiwrx

Needed this like a hole in the head...


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> Needed this like a hole in the head...




I ordered two this morning 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> I ordered two this morning
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


If they have some sort of intercom function, I'll need 3 right away, I was looking at "Nucleus" but they have my attention... 

_...Rapamatic, I thought you were the Apple die hard...._


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> If they have some sort of intercom function, I'll need 3 right away, I was looking at "Nucleus" but they have my attention...
> 
> _...Rapamatic, I thought you were the Apple die hard...._




I believe they do have a sort of intercom function. You can have certain contacts able to initiate a video/audio call without you needing to answer. They have a name for this feature but I forget it now. They show it in their intro video. 

I'm a big Apple fan, but we love our Alexa in the kitchen and it's much easier than Siri to hook into Lutron and Indigo for automation. Plus it's always on and listening (a bit creepy). I'm also holding out for that Alexa/Sonos integration, which is supposedly coming soon. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> I believe they do have a sort of intercom function....
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


---Slightly Off Topic---

Stumbled on this CNET article today, on Amazon/Echo Intercom function....

https://www.cnet.com/news/bug-your-family-with-amazon-echos-new-intercom-feature/


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## schalliol

The FBI Can Neither Confirm Nor Deny Wiretapping Your Amazon Echo


----------



## dgage

schalliol said:


> The FBI Can Neither Confirm Nor Deny Wiretapping Your Amazon Echo


My wife and I talk about our illegal activities in the bathroom, where we won't allow an Echo. However, the rest of the house is game and if the FBI wants to hear us yelling for the kids, set a timer, or turn on/off lights, more power to them. But I don't doubt they might have an ability to get in and eaves drop. Let's see, the US government can listen to our cell calls without permission, the government allows all of our ISP surfing to be sold, so why not something that is at least convenient.

If you want voice control without the cloud, check out Charmed Quark, which is a PC-based home automation system.


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## schalliol

Heh

I like convenience too. I can be anywher and just say ?Hey Siri? and my watch will take care of it.


----------



## spherex

zoro said:


> I have been promised by my HD dealer that they can integrate HD with Lutron but so far no help


This is pretty easy with an always on computer of some kind to do the integration. I use a super cheap raspberry pi, wrote a quick script to integrate with lutron and with my shades, and now keypad button presses can also trigger shade scenes and away mode also adjusts shades.

The only downside is that HD is super unreliable. Scenes rarely work, so I just trigger shades individually, which seems to do the trick.

If If you're interested I can share the scripts I've written. It's really hacky and in ruby - not something I wrote to share - but relatively easy to setup if you're familiar with scripting.


----------



## schalliol

I like RR2 because it works 100.0% of the time. Anything else doesn?t make sense for lighting.


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## dgage

schalliol said:


> I like RR2 because it works 100.0% of the time. Anything else doesn?t make sense for lighting.


Concur completely. Read about issues with Zwave, UPB, and Insteon but have never had issues with RadioRa2. It's been completely solid (100%) the last 5 years.


----------



## schalliol

My original entry to automation was trying X10 in the 90s, which left a lot to be desired.


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## Freiberg75

Looking for some help on a RadioRA2 system. 
Installer has left town I'm looking to switch some settings, add a couple of new switches and reconfigure the current wireless pad's where we have blanks to operate existing equipment. 

This may be a real dumb question.. so apologies before hand... but why would it be recommended to mount all the switches on the wall in a data closet... was told that is normal, but seems kinda crazy to not have the switches local to the rooms, and prohibitive in cost to have a switch in a closet and a keypads on the walls.

I have been able to download the current configuration to an xml file, but not sure I will have the patience to go through the training to get the basic software to configure it. 
If anyone would be willing to help, PM an idea around what you would need and costs and maybe we can get something moving. 

Thanks!


----------



## smoothtlk

"why would it be recommended to mount all the switches on the wall in a data closet... was told that is normal, but seems kinda crazy to not have the switches local to the rooms, and prohibitive in cost to have a switch in a closet and a keypads on the walls."

This is common so as to reduce the number of episodes of "Wall Acne".

There is typically a switch at the entrance to a room...that switch is programmed to "tell" the multiple circuits in that room to turn on / off / dim as a "scene".

If the room is large, and requires multiple switches to handle the light load, then you don't have these multiple switches on the visible wall - they are in the wiring closet.

It's a stair step towards a home run high end lighting controller like Lutron Homeworks and Vantage Infusion that uses low voltage switches in the room telling the lighting controller what you want to do. The Lighting controller then tells the dimmer and relay modules which circuits to On / Off / Dim.


----------



## Freiberg75

Thanks smoothtlk! That helps, I was having a hard time getting my head around that.
I haven't seen one, but that seems like a great opportunity for a company like Lutron to come up with a 24 port type switch... and include that as part of the automation product backlog. 

But at least I know why it's being done, and can make some sense out of it, so that is a huge help. 

Now to find some help tweaking the system going forward.
I have exported the config xml. 
Is it true that someone would be able to update the switch locations remotely based on that xml file and then we could re-upload the modified xml to the RA2 control unit? 

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## FlyingDiver

Freiberg75 said:


> Thanks smoothtlk! That helps, I was having a hard time getting my head around that.
> I haven't seen one, but that seems like a great opportunity for a company like Lutron to come up with a 24 port type switch... and include that as part of the automation product backlog.


The do make a six dimmer wallbox power module that fits in a four-gang box. I have five of those in my house.


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## wkearney99

Two schools of thought on dimmer locating. Some folks say wire the place as regular switches would entail. That way you're not stuck with any one particular kind of device scheme. Tech changes and then you're stuck. Past systems did things like run low voltage wire out to the switches and used centralized dimming panels. This only made sense when dimmers in panels were most cost effective (or the salesman blew enough smoke up the customer's arse...)

There's also the sense of avoiding clutter on the wall. This, again, only makes sense if there's not a rational design made for the lighting circuits. Dumb stuff like an 8-gang box with dimmers all in a row, controlling a whole floor's worth of lighting (that isn't laid out in a linear progression) would be one such example of 'wall acne'. 

Also consider that cramming everything into a keypad full of tiny buttons makes it tedious trying to just bring up some light in the room. As in, your hands are full and you want to SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING. A regular full-size paddle switch is a LOT more convenient than one button of many on a keypad. Or worse, a lone touchscreen.


----------



## wkearney99

Freiberg75 said:


> Now to find some help tweaking the system going forward.
> I have exported the config xml.
> Is it true that someone would be able to update the switch locations remotely based on that xml file and then we could re-upload the modified xml to the RA2 control unit?


No, you do not edit the XML file directly. You use Lutron's Ra2 programming software.

How many devices do you have total? That and how many main repeaters? Because if it's only one main repeater then you can sign up on Lutron's website, run through some online training and get the "Essentials" software, for free.

It's possible to have two main repeaters and less than 100 devices, but it would be quite odd to have had it set up that way. Note, main repeaters are different than aux repeaters. Aux units are just slaves to a main repeater and are typically used to extend RF signal coverage in larger sites.

If, however, you have more than one main repeater or more than 100 devices then you need to pay to attend an in-person training class to receive authorization to upgrade your "Essentials" program to become the "Inclusive" program.

There is a Lutron forum online that might be helpful. Read various threads on there to learn more.

https://forums.lutron.com


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## wkearney99

rapamatic said:


> I ordered two this morning


They work quite nicely. They don't yet do as many things as die-hard automation fans will probably want. As in, you cannot yet use them as an ActionTiles control panel or the like. Right now they're sort of a combination of an Echo and a Chumby (if you remember what _those_ were). More 'ambient information display' than touchscreen control panel. 

All Echo units (save for the portable Tap) can do intercom calling. The Echo Show can do video calling to another Echo Show.

The single biggest challenge to using voice control is naming all your lights in a sensible manner. What worked to set them up may make NO sense for voice control. As in "Master Bedroom Recessed Lights" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue for voice control. But if you have both a set of recessed cans AND a ceiling fixture then which one gets called "Master Bedroom Ceiling"? Likewise kitchen circuits or any other rooms with multiple lighting devices.

My single biggest complaint about the Smart Home portion of the Alexa app is they have not made it all friendly to set up rooms, floors and groups. No sorting for device names, so you're scrolling enddddddlessly to find things. That and no way to back up, save or import anything once you do get a working setup.


----------



## Freiberg75

wkearney99 said:


> No, you do not edit the XML file directly. You use Lutron's Ra2 programming software.
> 
> How many devices do you have total? That and how many main repeaters? Because if it's only one main repeater then you can sign up on Lutron's website, run through some online training and get the "Essentials" software, for free.
> 
> It's possible to have two main repeaters and less than 100 devices, but it would be quite odd to have had it set up that way. Note, main repeaters are different than aux repeaters. Aux units are just slaves to a main repeater and are typically used to extend RF signal coverage in larger sites.
> 
> If, however, you have more than one main repeater or more than 100 devices then you need to pay to attend an in-person training class to receive authorization to upgrade your "Essentials" program to become the "Inclusive" program.
> 
> There is a Lutron forum online that might be helpful. Read various threads on there to learn more.
> 
> https://forums.lutron.com


I have less than 100 devices, and only one repeater. roughly 8000sqft area but only core area's wired for automation. 
I did start the path to get the essentials software, but wasn't sure I would have time to finish up the course training. 
Plus website was not opening up the training / exam portion. Maybe a browser issue, but that is as far as I made it. 

So now just looking for a gap step in case I don't finish up the essentials software training, or someway to remotely update the files / config and pay for that service.


----------



## wkearney99

Freiberg75 said:


> I have less than 100 devices, and only one repeater. roughly 8000sqft area but only core area's wired for automation.
> I did start the path to get the essentials software, but wasn't sure I would have time to finish up the course training.
> Plus website was not opening up the training / exam portion. Maybe a browser issue, but that is as far as I made it.
> 
> So now just looking for a gap step in case I don't finish up the essentials software training, or someway to remotely update the files / config and pay for that service.


Finish the training. It's free and gets you what you need. There is no other work-around, save for someone else that has the software remoting into your network and doing the programming from off-site. This is not without complications, of course, not to mention a potential security risk. The best solution is an on-site PC running Windows with the software installed. What also helps is having the same version of software installed as is on the firmware of the equipment. Past versions can be downloaded.

Now, at a certain point it's worth considering a do-over of the programming. If just to overcome any mistakes or short-comings of a previous configuration. None of it is 'rocket science' but scenes and keypad modes are something that helps understanding the fundamentals. Likewise timeclock schedules and home/away configurations. 

Best bet is get the training completed and get the right software.


----------



## schalliol

wkearney99 said:


> Also consider that cramming everything into a keypad full of tiny buttons makes it tedious trying to just bring up some light in the room. As in, your hands are full and you want to SEE WHERE YOU'RE GOING. A regular full-size paddle switch is a LOT more convenient than one button of many on a keypad. Or worse, a lone touchscreen.


This I see is RR2's biggest down-side. If you're moving quickly, pressing a tiny keypad button isn't easy to do. I have engraved 4-button picos in a lot of places that make it easier than a 6 button keypad for pressing (and even a couple 2 or 3 button), but Lutron should offer button kits for keypads with much bigger buttons.


----------



## wkearney99

schalliol said:


> This I see is RR2's biggest down-side. If you're moving quickly, pressing a tiny keypad button isn't easy to do. I have engraved 4-button picos in a lot of places that make it easier than a 6 button keypad for pressing (and even a couple 2 or 3 button), but Lutron should offer button kits for keypads with much bigger buttons.


I don't know that it rises to 'biggest down-side' but it would certainly be nice if the Palladiom style was available for Ra2 instead of only HWQS. 

But it was at least a pleasant surprise to be able to use the reasonably-priced Pico remotes for the purpose, and to have custom engraving as an option.


----------



## schalliol

I only said biggest down-side since I think RR2 is pretty good and the physical interface I think is a weakness in user-experience. It would be great if you could have a full Decora-size keypad button - smack it as you walk by. If Lutron could decouple a button press from the on-board light load and just make all wall dimmers/switches 1-button hybrid-keypads, that would be awesome.

I agree Palladiom style would be a nice help. That's why I use the engraved Picos, to at least provide virtually the same 4 engraved buttons.


----------



## dgage

I have the 6 key hybrid keypad on theee sides of the kitchen along with a main switch for the kitchen. The main switch is what we use 95%+ of the time and we have matching keypads to turn on the lesser used lights. Works great and is very user friendly. Plus the hybrid keypad takes care of each switch having an individual use like the breakfast nook on the far side of the kitchen. Really like the usability but again, using a regular switch for almost all of the usage and keypads much less.


----------



## spiwrx

More and more I try and push the lesser button keypads, and spaced buttons for ease of use. But user experience has a lot to do with how well the system programmer meets the expectation of the end user. I go to a lot of different homes and program for electrical contractors that don't want to or don't have time to. A lot of what I have to do is really educate the end-user and meet their expectations. The biggest hurdle is trying to get them to understand "scenes" and I think this is really were the HA really starts to make things more efficient for people, yet most still just want to toggle buttons, but there is always that "Ah-Hah" moment when they finally get it. We discuss HA here and are swimming in the deep end but the majority still have never had it, experienced it or had a poor first experience. So when you talk about user experience, in terms of what I do, is try to make it a good one by educating them on their options without overwhelming them. It's a fine balancing act and you have to be able read your customer. I have a home I have been going to and have been adjusting the programming for almost a year since the install, but only because the homeowner can only take it for about and hour, then they they get frustrated. Luckily we both now recognize that as their limit and recently had their "Ah-hah" moment and finally progressing to a foreseeable end. So yes it takes time sometimes, and another reason contractors hire me, is they don't want to invest that time even though they could charge significantly more than their average hourly rate. The user experience is ultimately up to you, I think Lutron has a find catalog of products, and yes there is always something more we want, but working with what is available, and making yourself knowledgeable about all of the offerings you should be able to make a good if not great user experience for just about anyone.


----------



## Neurorad

Paul (or anyone) - is there a best location to find RA2 tips and tricks? Like this thread, one needs to spend a good deal of time combing through the mylutron forums for pearls.


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## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> ...but there is always that "Ah-Hah" moment when they finally get it.


Scenes especially, and button engraving also takes some time. 

The hardest part of automating a space is understanding how to live in it. Automating an existing space, one that's been occupied for some time, is perhaps easier in that the residents will already have some established patterns of use. But for a new place; either just built or recently occupied, it's a lot harder. For a brand new structure there's no body of experience to draw upon. This is where a good lighting designer and possibly the architect are going to be valuable resources. 

That and there's a lot to be said for 'getting used to the space' for a while. Potentially over the span of many seasons, and lifestyle events (parties, guests, etc). What works for the winter when you move in may not work well at all come summer time when there's guests over.


----------



## spiwrx

Freiberg75 said:


> Thanks smoothtlk! That helps, I was having a hard time getting my head around that.
> I haven't seen one, but that seems like a great opportunity for a company like Lutron to come up with a 24 port type switch... and include that as part of the automation product backlog.
> 
> But at least I know why it's being done, and can make some sense out of it, so that is a huge help.
> 
> Now to find some help tweaking the system going forward.
> I have exported the config xml.
> Is it true that someone would be able to update the switch locations remotely based on that xml file and then we could re-upload the modified xml to the RA2 control unit?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback!


I design around a similar theory. If there are only 1 or 2 switches in a room I would leave it at that. If we have more than 2 we consider a keypad. And definitely a proponent of remote mounting the switches to a near by closet, attic, or other space. Some where more accessible is ideal, in the unlikely case something goes wrong with the keypad. 

I've never updated from .xml I suppose it would be possible, but if you can get the .xml you should also have access to the job file (.ra2) then anyone with RR2 software could more visually update and more importantly understand your layout. But if you have that kind of access it would also be easy enough to do any sort of changes yourself. 

Depending on the work involved I'd be happy to look at it for you... contact me directly be email paul(at)hankselectric(dot)net


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## spiwrx

Don't want to stir the pot just yet, but somehow you guys are usually asking me before I know about new products... So who has info from CEDIA on Radio Ra 2 Select???


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> Don't want to stir the pot just yet, but somehow you guys are usually asking me before I know about new products... So who has info from CEDIA on Radio Ra 2 Select???




RadioRa 2 Select? Tell me more!?!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

I was told by Lutron I need to go to CEDIA in Sand Diego right now to find out more. Sorry, but I don't have the time for that this week. Hopefully post show they will make a press release... There is a pretty sleek Black whats looks to be a connect bridge type device on the CEDIA website, nut no hint as to what it is.


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> I was told by Lutron I need to go to CEDIA in Sand Diego right now to find out more. Sorry, but I don't have the time for that this week. Hopefully post show they will make a press release... There is a pretty sleek Black whats looks to be a connect bridge type device on the CEDIA website, nut no hint as to what it is.




If anyone else wants to see the link here it is: http://www.cedia.net/programs/award...ard-finalists/2017-best-new-product-finalists

I can only hope this is some sort of advanced main repeater with conditional logic and more programming capabilities (HomeWorks Lite?)! With my luck it will just be a bridge to something useless (to me) like Caseta or Philips Hue....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Brian Garber

rapamatic said:


> I can only hope this is some sort of advanced main repeater with conditional logic and more programming capabilities (HomeWorks Lite?)! With my luck it will just be a bridge to something useless (to me) like Caseta or Philips Hue....


... I'm still waiting on integration with Google Assistant ...


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## rapamatic

I’ve been doing some googling and stumbled on this. Doesn’t look too exciting:



> A smart, whole home control solution made simple. RA2 Select is a lighting control solution providing simple setup, installation and design for a contractor.


http://www.necashow.org/neca2017/public/eBooth.aspx?BoothID=107579&Task=Products


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

My money is on an integrated new main repeater eliminating the need for both Main Repeater and Bridge. But I'm purely guessing. Interesting UL doc. from Canada here eludes to a few other new part numbers... 

L-REPPRO & RR-SEL-REP2 (Both apparently some form of repeater). 

If we actually get real conditional programming I'm going to eat crow, but I will be happy.


----------



## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> I’ve been doing some googling and stumbled on this. Doesn’t look too exciting:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.necashow.org/neca2017/public/eBooth.aspx?BoothID=107579&Task=Products
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


This may not be exciting to everyone, but just above that post was a link hinting towards a RF controlled receptacle. Probably not RR2 but suspicious CAR2S-20-STR


----------



## freeoscar

Agree with Paul - given that it's touted as being simple and aimed at Contractors, I'm guessing it will operate like a Caseta system (bridge only, with an app for programming), but utilize the RR2 dimmers, switches and perhaps keypads (or maybe just Picos including the 4 button engravable).


----------



## duckymomo

freeoscar said:


> Agree with Paul - given that it's touted as being simple and aimed at Contractors, I'm guessing it will operate like a Caseta system (bridge only, with an app for programming), but utilize the RR2 dimmers, switches and perhaps keypads (or maybe just Picos including the 4 button engravable).


That's would be good news too if we finally get a decent switch selection in a Caseta-like system. Would be really good news if the device limit is 100 or more.


----------



## spiwrx

OK, seems it will be an intermediate systems. Think of Caseta using PICO controls and RR2 Dimmers. Using RR2 Dimmers, No wired keypads, only Picos and a new connect bridge type main repeater. 

So unlike the Caseta, you will have an upgrade path if you want to expand beyond. You simply get the appropriate main repeater and now you can add keypads and become a full RR2 system. 

So sadly the Select doesn't bring anything for the existing system owners, but it does offer a lower price point in terms of it's repeater to get your feet wet. 
The devices ares still the base RRD-xx dimmers and switches the the pricing savings comes only from a lesser main repeater and use of Picos instead of wired keypads. 

I'm sure there is more to come, but I'm getting bits and pieces from people I know at CEDIA. 

Might consider this as rumor still for now, but I have some solid leads on the matter.


----------



## dgage

Thanks for the info Paul. May point to what I've felt for a while, RadioRa2 is pretty much on life support with little in the way of new functionality or devices. But I also felt Caseta was too limited. Me thinks Lutron needs to get their heads out of their butts, develop a plan, and stick to it. Seems like they keep changing direction every year, which is dumb because eventually they will get a good size competitor to take over for many of the smaller players.


----------



## duckymomo

dgage said:


> Thanks for the info Paul. May point to what I've felt for a while, RadioRa2 is pretty much on life support with little in the way of new functionality or devices. But I also felt Caseta was too limited. Me thinks Lutron needs to get their heads out of their butts, develop a plan, and stick to it. Seems like they keep changing direction every year, which is dumb because eventually they will get a good size competitor to take over for many of the smaller players.


I hate that Clear Connect and most of their products are so damn reliable. They must have some genius financial plan because they intentionally cripple all of their product lines except Homeworks and up.


----------



## spiwrx

Mixed feelings about this, assuming some details still, but in effect they are giving what some have been asking for for a long time, an upgrade path. Assuming you are still limited to Scenes because of the Picos, but honestly we see the trend of the voice controlled devices gaining, and that means less need for keypads and at least in my own home, the Amazon Echo has become real popular real quick and my wife and kids are actually using it everyday for intercom, light control, streaming music, etc...


----------



## freeoscar

dgage said:


> Thanks for the info Paul. May point to what I've felt for a while, RadioRa2 is pretty much on life support with little in the way of new functionality or devices. But I also felt Caseta was too limited. Me thinks Lutron needs to get their heads out of their butts, develop a plan, and stick to it. Seems like they keep changing direction every year, which is dumb because eventually they will get a good size competitor to take over for many of the smaller players.


On life support? In the past 12 months they've added integration with Sonos, Homekit, Echo and shortly Google Home. the previous year they added the connect bridge as well as released the HNBRL series LED compatible hybrid keypads. Their Caseta line is widely lauded as being the most reliable of the consumer grade smart lighting systems, and is one of the better sellers in the field.
No, RR2 doesn't have conditional programming, which would be awesome, but they have always been very good about integration with both the DIY and pro level home control (control 4, crestron, etc.) and security (Omnipro, Honeywell, DSC, Elk) for those who value a more sophisticated system.
I think sticking to their knitting (i.e. the most reliable smart lighting systems with an incredible range of switches, dimmers, etc. to work with a huge variety of consumer and commercial lighting solutions, not to mention a huge range of switch designs and colors), while letting the integration experts (Crestron, etc.) do what they do best is a sound strategy.
What is it you would want them to do that they currently aren't and others are?


----------



## lleo_

This looks to me like Radio RA3 or Caseta PRO, but Lutron did not want another name/line, hence the name 'Select'. They likely conducted a market research with their installers and asked what you do not like in the current version, they wanted simple set up, like no-need-for-computer, just pushing a button (check), no complicated logic, conditional or else (check), limited device offering (check), no need installer to support control app (check) so RA2 Select was created. It also only works with Lutron App, giving Lutron the dab on the private data collection; (like give me the customers that go to kitchen between 1 and 4 AM, and those that go to bathroom twice between midnight and 6 AM) advertiser wet dream...

previous RA2 devices not compatible, likely the old line will be left dead in few months and buyout offered to increase base on data collection. time to stock up on old devices, before supply becomes scarce.


----------



## spiwrx

They already have Caseta Pro, & not yet a RR3. But a step between Caseta and RR2, with upgrade potential to full RR2. And Caseta will remain as their entry level system. 

It looks like the marketing is just a push on ease of programming for someone that just want to gets going quickly without any training. A Push on some new Picos (new engraving options). And perhaps a new base model dimmer that might be slightly less expensive, but don't quote me on that yet.... 

Here is a brochure for Radio Ra 2 Select they just released


----------



## freeoscar

lleo_ said:


> previous RA2 devices not compatible, likely the old line will be left dead in few months and buyout offered to increase base on data collection. time to stock up on old devices, before supply becomes scarce.


This is just false. This page from Lutron clearly shows that Select uses the same dimmers/switches as Radio Ra2 does. If anything, a more widely available system, and just recently released, would indicate that the Radio Ra2 protocol is even more likely to be sustained.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/pages/supportCenter/support.aspx?productName=RA2 Select

Select just doesn't use the Radio Ra2 keypads or a PC-connected main repeater, and offers in its stead a sort of souped up Connect Bridge along with an expanded range of Pico keypads (and one would suspect those new pico's could be added to a new or existing Ra2 system as well).

One interesting thing is that they seem to have expanded the integration to Logitech Harmony and Smartthings - I do wonder if that is only for Select or if an upgrade will add those integrations to the Ra2 Connect Bridge's as well - if so, that would be a nice addition (and depending on what smartthings can do perhaps that would allow for some conditionality.

Paul's link to the brochure didn't work for me, so I've added a direct link to the Lutron website where it can be found.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672737_RA2_Select_Brochure.pdf


----------



## dgage

freeoscar said:


> On life support? In the past 12 months they've added integration with Sonos, Homekit, Echo and shortly Google Home. the previous year they added the connect bridge as well as released the HNBRL series LED compatible hybrid keypads. Their Caseta line is widely lauded as being the most reliable of the consumer grade smart lighting systems, and is one of the better sellers in the field.
> No, RR2 doesn't have conditional programming, which would be awesome, but they have always been very good about integration with both the DIY and pro level home control (control 4, crestron, etc.) and security (Omnipro, Honeywell, DSC, Elk) for those who value a more sophisticated system.
> I think sticking to their knitting (i.e. the most reliable smart lighting systems with an incredible range of switches, dimmers, etc. to work with a huge variety of consumer and commercial lighting solutions, not to mention a huge range of switch designs and colors), while letting the integration experts (Crestron, etc.) do what they do best is a sound strategy.
> What is it you would want them to do that they currently aren't and others are?


When Caseta was released it came at a time when not much was being done on the RadioRa2 side with the only real device I can remember being added is the fan control. Caseta was released with the Bridge while RadioRa2 initially didn't have the bridge. RadioRa2 finally got a Bridge, which I purchased only to find out a few months later that they didn't plan ahead with regards to Apple integration and so had to release a second RR2 Bridge leaving the initial purchases out in the cold. So my initial feelings regarding RadioRa2 being a second hand offering started way back then. They've also had a few different apps on the mobile software side for whatever reason. And I've lost functionality with the main RadioRa2 software as I used to be able to use a Pico remote to turn on/off my bathroom nightlight with the middle round button while using the on/off/up/down buttons for the main bedroom lights. Last time I upgraded, I found that functionality missing. 

A friend bought a new house and was looking to add some basic lighting automation and after suggesting RadioRa2, he mentioned it was too expensive. So I looked at Caseta to see if I could recommend that but found that they had so few devices, primarily no in-wall traditional switches, that I couldn't even recommend Caseta.

I agree, Lutron has ClearConnect, which is rock-solid and something they've had for over a decade and I agree, it just plain works. But their marketing and segmentation is poor IN MY OPINION. To me Caseta isn't what it needs to be to compete in that space as most consumers aren't going to know enough to know how much better ClearConnect is than the other technologies, they're just going to see the cost and lack of device options. Radioa2 seems like its in the middle not getting much love. 

And I must say, you really sound like you work for Lutron and can't see some of the missteps. If I'm wrong I apologize but you seem awfully defensive for being a general customer on a forum. I worked at Microsoft for over 10 years and I called a spade a spade. Microsoft made some great products that didn't get the appreciation they deserved but also made some stupid moves too. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of RadioRa2. I guess it is the product I purchased over 6-7 years ago and really hasn't changed too much, which is a good thing. But I guess being in technology and knowing what they could turn RadioRa2 into, I see missed opportunity that disappoints me. But I'll end by saying I think ClearConnect is one of the (if not the) best, most reliable lighting technologies on the market. Too bad market segmentation gets in the way of them making it even better.


----------



## lleo_

I accept that my forecasting of the end of the original Radio RA2 was nothing but trolling, but Lutron deserves more than that for further fragmenting their product lines.
So now there is Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2, Radio RA2 Select, Homeworks QS, and Homeworks QS Lite and couple of other names I noted on their website.
I have to give it to Lutron that they know their offering is rock solid and as such 'divide and conquer' strategy will give them the biggest market share, and they are not engaging in pricewars with ZWave, Zigbee and others.


----------



## vc123

dgage said:


> When Caseta was released it came at a time when not much was being done on the RadioRa2 side with the only real device I can remember being added is the fan control.


It is unlikely that any devices other than lighting will be released due to an inherent ClearConnect protocol limitation, i.e. unencrypted messaging. Hence, the games with intentional market fragmentation despite the fact that all the ClearConnect devices would be perfectly usable in Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2 if they were whitelisted there.


----------



## dgage

lleo_ said:


> I accept that my forecasting of the end of the original Radio RA2 was nothing but trolling, but Lutron deserves more than that for further fragmenting their product lines.
> So now there is Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2, Radio RA2 Select, Homeworks QS, and Homeworks QS Lite and couple of other names I noted on their website.
> I have to give it to Lutron that they know their offering is rock solid and as such 'divide and conquer' strategy will give them the biggest market share, and they are not engaging in pricewars with ZWave, Zigbee and others.


I was just thinking with a RadioRa2 Select, it was even more fragmented for no consumer-focused reason and you just identified how much worse it is in reality than in my mind. Lutron has no standing for this many product lines. Ridiculous. I'll be moving in about 4 years and hoping there's another good option besides Lutron as I don't plan to buy into a company this screwed up. Unless Lutron cleans up this mess somehow but I'm not holding my breath.
@freeoscar - not trying to pick on you but I'd really like to know how you can respond to this sort of market fragmentation as anything other than a commercial mess with none other than Lutron themselves to blame.


----------



## freeoscar

dgage said:


> @freeoscar - not trying to pick on you but I'd really like to know how you can respond to this sort of market fragmentation as anything other than a commercial mess with none other than Lutron themselves to blame.


Well, what is the 'right' level of fragmentation? BMW has a 1 series, 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, X series, Z series, M series, I series, and I believe they also produce Mini Coopers, which themselves have several different lines. Is that too much? It's less than GM, so is it too few?

As a consumer, I only need 1, so I choose the most appropriate one for me. I also think there is basically 1 consumer line (Caseta) - you can (and I did) DiY RR2, but I'm guessing that's an extraordinarily small number of customers. True there are a host of integrator options, as mentioned above. Perhaps they have an issue with it, but I'm not a pro so I don't know. Perhaps they asked for many different lines because they felt certain potential customers fell through the cracks - I don't know. But them announcing RR Select doesn't negatively impact me or my system in any way - if anything I think the opposite- they added integration options (smartthings and Harmony), which I'm assuming will come my way (just like Alexa and Homekit migrated from Caseta to RR2). And if more people install the RR2 dimmers/switches, Lutron is more likely to sustain production.


----------



## dgage

freeoscar said:


> Well, what is the 'right' level of fragmentation? BMW has a 1 series, 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, X series, Z series, M series, I series, and I believe they also produce Mini Coopers, which themselves have several different lines. Is that too much? It's less than GM, so is it too few?
> 
> As a consumer, I only need 1, so I choose the most appropriate one for me. I also think there is basically 1 consumer line (Caseta) - you can (and I did) DiY RR2, but I'm guessing that's an extraordinarily small number of customers. True there are a host of integrator options, as mentioned above. Perhaps they have an issue with it, but I'm not a pro so I don't know. Perhaps they asked for many different lines because they felt certain potential customers fell through the cracks - I don't know. But them announcing RR Select doesn't negatively impact me or my system in any way - if anything I think the opposite- they added integration options (smartthings and Harmony), which I'm assuming will come my way (just like Alexa and Homekit migrated from Caseta to RR2). And if more people install the RR2 dimmers/switches, Lutron is more likely to sustain production.


Your example is one of a single choice purchased as a single item. With a lighting SYSTEM, it is the system aspect which is key. A gaming system would be much more poignant and the best gaming system is usually the one that has the best combination of games, accessories, and integrations. 

We agree that technologically, Lutron has one of the best automation-enabled lighting systems on the market. And I agree that RadioRa2 is a great system with lots of choices. My only issue is the artificial segmentation they've brought into the situation that POTENTIALLY interferes with how much better RadioRa2 could be. It doesn't really matter now as I'm not switching and have my system largely built so anything additional is gravy. But I will say the segmentation will definitely make me research to find another lighting solution at my next house but even after doing that, I may still end up with RadioRa2.

But I'm glad you're happy with your system and Lutron. I am by no means unhappy with my system but I look at the artificial segmentation and wonder how much better could it be.


----------



## spiwrx

Software version 12.0.1 is out now, might not want to jump on this if you don't have a myLutron account, read below...

Link to sign up for Lutron Training, if you don't have it by now you'll want to stick with version 11 software or bite the bullet and get it done... 

New in 12.0 (From the Release notes)
New Features: 


myLutron login required to use RA2 software: A valid myLutron login is now required to be able to access a new installation of the software. This requires an active internet connect. It is strongly recommended to install and login immediately after downloading the software. After the first login, the installation will be re-validated (no additional login required) as long as the computer connects to the internet with a 12.0 version (or higher going forward). This helps ensure that homeowners are being serviced by authorized service providers.
New Pico products: 
a. International 4B Pico: Added a new product 4B Pico for locations outside North America. 
b. International Audio Pico: Added support for Audio Pico for locations outside North America.
c. US Satin Color Picos: Pico in North America is now supported in a limited set of Satin Colors (SW, BI, MN). See spec sheet for details. 
You will now be able to match them with other Satin Color products such as Maestro and seeTouch.
New Black Connect Bridge: The Connect bridge is now a beautiful black. Model number and functionality remain unchanged.
Control4 SDDP support: With the addition of support for auto discovery, the Lutron HWQS processor will show up in the discovery tab of the Composer software. Requires bridge firmware update.
New RRD-6ND: A new neutral based RF dimmer has been added for improved LED control.
New Aux Repeater: A new Aux repeater has been added L-REPPRO-BL. This repeater is designed to be placed visibly in a space and looks like the Connect bridge in black. It does not have any wired connections. See spec sheet for details.
Improvements 


Improved readability of Main Repeater logs: Main Repeater event logs now have improved readability for troubleshooting and make use of usenames. See the updated integration protocol document for usage.
System stabilization improvements.
On top of that there were a handful of new pre-engraved PICO's added with the RR2 Select, you could also use with regular RR2


----------



## dgage

spiwrx said:


> On top of that there were a handful of new pre-engraved PICO's added with the RR2 Select, you could also use with regular RR2


Now that is what Caseta should have been, compatible with RR2, which would have also given an upgrade path for those that started with Caseta but wanted something more advanced/capable. Better late than never!!!!

As usual, thanks spiwrx for sharing your knowledge and experience!


----------



## lleo_

Since Picos are one-way devices, they were always usable across different systems, even those that were made for stand alone Sivoia shade system, you just need to change the channel they are transmitting. I would not see this as a new feature.

On the other hand, I mentioned this a couple of posts ago, that Lutron is getting into the big data business, starting by collecting the usage of their programming tool, customer info and their usage data...


----------



## spiwrx

lleo_ said:


> Since Picos are one-way devices, they were always usable across different systems, even those that were made for stand alone Sivoia shade system, you just need to change the channel they are transmitting. I would not see this as a new feature.


Yes, the PICO is cross compatible and not new, only new pre-engraved options...


----------



## MikeSM

So I am trying to evaluate a bid by my electrician  on a RadioRA2 installation for a new house being built. I know the costs of the hardware, but how can I judge what's a reasonable charge for programming? 

Is it normally charged as a percentage of the cost of the hardware, or based on the complexity of the install? The house is large - 20 keypads, 80 dimmers, etc...

How can I tell if it's reasonable?

Thx
Mike


----------



## thebland

MikeSM said:


> So I am trying to evaluate a bid by my electrician on a RadioRA2 installation for a new house being built. I know the costs of the hardware, but how can I judge what's a reasonable charge for programming?
> 
> Is it normally charged as a percentage of the cost of the hardware, or based on the complexity of the install? The house is large - 20 keypads, 80 dimmers, etc...
> 
> How can I tell if it's reasonable?
> 
> Thx
> Mike


Can you post the quote?


----------



## MikeSM

thebland said:


> Can you post the quote?


Not sure I should. I'll give you some pieces though:


80 dimmers $14,240
33 remote dimmers (3-way dimmer) $ 1,419
25 switches $ 3,450
3 remote switch (3-way switch) $ 129
19 keypads $ 4,997
19 keypad installation $ 1,235
14 motion sensors $ 1,010
14 motion sensor installation $ 560
2 main repeaters $ 886
8 auxiliary repeaters $ 2,744
184 programming fee $ 9200

About 45K total including a few other pieces

What do people think?

thank you,
mike


----------



## thebland

MikeSM said:


> Not sure I should. I'll give you some pieces though:
> 
> 
> 80 dimmers $14,240
> 33 remote dimmers (3-way dimmer) $ 1,419
> 25 switches $ 3,450
> 3 remote switch (3-way switch) $ 129
> 19 keypads $ 4,997
> 19 keypad installation $ 1,235
> 14 motion sensors $ 1,010
> 14 motion sensor installation $ 560
> 2 main repeaters $ 886
> 8 auxiliary repeaters $ 2,744
> 184 programming fee $ 9200
> 
> About 45K total including a few other pieces
> 
> What do people think?
> 
> thank you,
> mike


Are the motions hard wired? The install seems a bit cheaper for that... I assume the switches and dimmers are to be installed by the electrician (no install cost).

Curious, so many keypads (wireless, Pico)? How many sq ft is the house.

(which model) of switches and dimmers?

So a bit more info... Thanks

(I ask for the details as I am expecting a quote as well for such a system on a new build- can compare costs).


----------



## spiwrx

MikeSM said:


> Not sure I should. I'll give you some pieces though:
> 
> 
> 80 dimmers $14,240
> 33 remote dimmers (3-way dimmer) $ 1,419
> 25 switches $ 3,450
> 3 remote switch (3-way switch) $ 129
> 19 keypads $ 4,997
> 19 keypad installation $ 1,235
> 14 motion sensors $ 1,010
> 14 motion sensor installation $ 560
> 2 main repeaters $ 886
> 8 auxiliary repeaters $ 2,744
> 184 programming fee $ 9200
> 
> About 45K total including a few other pieces
> 
> What do people think?
> 
> thank you,
> mike


I don't want to criticize anyone's pricing, obviously if you could do it yourself you could save a lot of money. You might find the product cheaper, but this person has to (presumably) order it for you, pick it up and deliver it, I think anyone is entitled to a little profit on materials and time to do all that. The only red flag I see is the number of hours to program. _(the hourly programming rate is actually good. Here in Southern California, we're averaging over $100/hr). Also I don't know the size of your home, but the Auxiliary repeater count seems excessive....

_*So I might ask some of you to chime in. How many hours have you spent on your programming? *_(In my free time I like to play with retro-gaming on the raspberry pi, so this was just a relevant question in a forum there as well, how much time do we spend setting up the PI vs. playing with it, and it was almost 9x (tweaking) to 1x (playing)), but if I knew Linux better I might be 7:1)_

Some guys just do a straight hour for each devices, but I think that's a little gross. 

When I quote a programming job, I gauge it by device and keypad. I normally do an hour per keypad and 1/4hr per (activated) device. So I see 80dimmers + 25switches + 14sensors + 2main + 8aux =129 Activated Devices at .25hr each = 32hrs

19 keypads = 19 hours. 

I'm seeing about 51hours, and that's a good base number. 

Then you have a few variables:


Gauge my customer. If they have a lot of demands, then we have to add to this. if you have experience doing this, you know what I mean and likely what to add, but lets just add 4hrs to be kind
If you are doing any 3rd party integration(Siri, Alexa, A/V, ETC) , the sky is the limit... (At least 1-4 hours each, depends on the number of scenes you want to use)
If you will be returning to install engraved keypad buttons, maybe another 15min each (5hrs)
Travel time (??)
APP installation 15min per device (1hr)
APP Training, (again this sort of follows with gauging your customer) 2hrs
Shades / Window Treatments (1hr each)
So there's another 12hr


Still only at 63hours. 



Again, we don't know the entire scope of the project or other factors that may relevant, so it's unfair to judge, based on what we know. I wouldn't consider this completely out of line. Unless it's their first RR2 job, I think the 184hours is excessive however his hourly rate compared to mine is a lot less so the numbers come out to about the same_ (they are still a little high)_. 



My most recent programming job is 136 total devices _(including 2 repeater and 1 auxiliary 4000sqft home and about 30 shades (reprogrammed shades (2hrs) as they were changed because they were the wrong color))_, with a lot of homeowner changes (6hours) and some Alexa/Echo programming(1hr) and I'm at about 45hours. I know I will have another 5-10hrs based on the customer for adjustments and APP setup & training.


Because I understand this customer, and the way we work together, I finally got them to agree to a connect bridge so I can make adjustments and simple changes on the fly and don't have to drive to their home for small changes. 2 trips to their home in travel time would cover the expense, and I threw in a couple of free programming hours so it is basically a win-win for both of us.


----------



## dgage

MikeSM must have a castle covering 4 sq acres to need 8 Aux Repeaters along with the 2 Main Repeaters. Or is your house built with concrete inside and out? That seems crazy.


----------



## MikeSM

dgage said:


> MikeSM must have a castle covering 4 sq acres to need 8 Aux Repeaters along with the 2 Main Repeaters. Or is your house built with concrete inside and out? That seems crazy.


It's 2 stories with a full basement, and about 9500 sq ft. A big house...  But I haven't gone through his analysis of placement of such things yet. It did sound like overkill to me. No concrete walls internally though. 

I am a software engineer, and have a homeseer automation system that will carry over to the new house. I need the keypads programmed in a useful way, but will do my own automation programming in homeseer, so no need for that in RR2 - just expose every light and button to be controllable via the ethernet and I can do the rest. 

On the occupancy sensors, I am wondering about cutting that out since the security system needs mtion sensors too, and the Elk M1 I am planning to use connects to homeseer and can control the lighting that via that way. I don't think the security system can be used by the RR2 system for occupancy, at least not without some other system. I'd rather not have 2 sets of motion sensors in the house.

I guess I could use the lutron motion sensors on the Elk panel if they were especially good.

thanks for help guys.

thx
mike


----------



## dgage

Mike - My Main Repeater is in one corner of my house just because that was where I had an open network port and I haven’t needed to move it to a more central location though that was the plan. I have switches over 30’ away, likely pushing 40’ and don’t have any issues. With repeaters, they can be setup within 60’ of each other and devices need to be within 30’ of a repeater. So maybe that will help you personally figure out how many auxiliary repeaters you need beyond the 2 Main Repeaters (to allow 200 devices). 

Regarding motion sensors, I’d say you can use security motions secondarily as occupancy sensors but I wouldn’t use an occupancy sensor with your security system.


----------



## MikeSM

dgage said:


> Mike - My Main Repeater is in one corner of my house just because that was where I had an open network port and I haven’t needed to move it to a more central location though that was the plan. I have switches over 30’ away, likely pushing 40’ and don’t have any issues. With repeaters, they can be setup within 60’ of each other and devices need to be within 30’ of a repeater. So maybe that will help you personally figure out how many auxiliary repeaters you need beyond the 2 Main Repeaters (to allow 200 devices).
> 
> Regarding motion sensors, I’d say you can use security motions secondarily as occupancy sensors but I wouldn’t use an occupancy sensor with your security system.


Ok, I'll push on the repeater count . Sounds like I can delete the occupancy sensors too and relay on the security system sensors for that, with some augmentations so they can act more like occupancy sensors?

Thanks,
mike


----------



## ksalno

MIke,

I have a similar sized home on 3 levels. I cover it with a main repeater in the family room which is central and two remote repeaters one on each side of the house on different levels. That gives me all the coverage I need for over 100 devices.

I have several occupancy sensors and find them useful for automatically turning lights off and on based on people entering the room or closet. They are on timers so they automatically turn the lights off if no motion after a set time, as well. More of an energy conservation tool than for security purposes.

Karl


----------



## freeoscar

MikeSM said:


> Ok, I'll push on the repeater count . Sounds like I can delete the occupancy sensors too and relay on the security system sensors for that, with some augmentations so they can act more like occupancy sensors?
> 
> Thanks,
> mike


Using lighting sensors for security is not a good idea - first off, that wouldn't be UL compliant, and it introduces a secondary dependency between the lighting system and the alarm system. Secondly, the sensors are designed to react differently and have different sensitivities. You could use the security ones for lighting, though there is a reason to have the different types in different places - for instance you might want a lighting motion sensor in a laundry room, but there is no need for a security one there. A security sensor is for detecting a breach to the perimeter, a lighting sensor is more typically for detecting interior movements. For lighting triggers for the perimeter there are better options - i.e. a door lock code triggering a 'coming home' scene, or a tie-in with your garage door opener, or a phone-based geo-fence.


----------



## thebland

freeoscar said:


> Using lighting sensors for security is not a good idea - first off, that wouldn't be UL compliant, and it introduces a secondary dependency between the lighting system and the alarm system. Secondly, the sensors are designed to react differently and have different sensitivities. You could use the security ones for lighting, though there is a reason to have the different types in different places - for instance you might want a lighting motion sensor in a laundry room, but there is no need for a security one there. A security sensor is for detecting a breach to the perimeter, a lighting sensor is more typically for detecting interior movements. For lighting triggers for the perimeter there are better options - i.e. a door lock code triggering a 'coming home' scene, or a tie-in with your garage door opener, or a phone-based geo-fence.



A bit off topic, but do most still use hard wired window sensors or wireless? I am going to use Lutron in my new build, an Elk or Vista panel. 

Like the poster here, I am unsure of what. control system to use but want full access to programming (eg no C4, Crestron)

We have many windows that can open. Are wireless window sensors better hear days or do they fall off line. We are renting a home while we build and had an Xfinity security system installed in the rental. The window sensors are hit or miss. 

Thanks.


----------



## MikeSM

ksalno said:


> MIke,
> 
> I have a similar sized home on 3 levels. I cover it with a main repeater in the family room which is central and two remote repeaters one on each side of the house on different levels. That gives me all the coverage I need for over 100 devices.
> 
> I have several occupancy sensors and find them useful for automatically turning lights off and on based on people entering the room or closet. They are on timers so they automatically turn the lights off if no motion after a set time, as well. More of an energy conservation tool than for security purposes.
> 
> Karl


Thanks. Sounds like I'm getting overkill in the plan. Will work on dealing with that.

thx
mike


----------



## MikeSM

freeoscar said:


> Using lighting sensors for security is not a good idea - first off, that wouldn't be UL compliant, and it introduces a secondary dependency between the lighting system and the alarm system. Secondly, the sensors are designed to react differently and have different sensitivities. You could use the security ones for lighting, though there is a reason to have the different types in different places - for instance you might want a lighting motion sensor in a laundry room, but there is no need for a security one there. A security sensor is for detecting a breach to the perimeter, a lighting sensor is more typically for detecting interior movements. For lighting triggers for the perimeter there are better options - i.e. a door lock code triggering a 'coming home' scene, or a tie-in with your garage door opener, or a phone-based geo-fence.


Well, I'm not sure that having that dependency is a bad thing, but I get the point. The way I am thinking about it, I want access to all the sensor data about motion or presence in the home to come up to Homeseer (my automation system) so it can tell what is going on in the house, and allow me to program and control it without having to call others in and have them have to come out to make alterations. So while the security system might not need nearly as many sensors on it to make sure the house hasn't been broken into, I'd like to be able to do things like turn the bathroom fan on when someone spends more than 2 mins on the potty, or tell the HVAC to shut down a zone if the windows in that room are opened. That's why I am planning having sensors in each rooms windows on their own circuit, not for security reasons, but as inputs to the automation system.

So I can have HS flip the lights on when presence is detected by the security system in a hallway, in a room, etc... If the Lutron sensors really are much better for determining occupancy than the PIRs for the security system, I could feed data from the Lutron system to HS for decisionmaking too. In fact, I could hardwire Lutron occupancy sensors to the Elk panel, and not have them sent wirelessly. What do people think about the differences between Lutron and normal PIR's?

The RR2 system doesn't give you any real ability to process conditional logic. Homeseer is great at that, so since I am going to do that processing there in any case, where the sensors are that determine actions to take is less important, as long as updated state is quickly available to HS.

Thank you,
Mike


----------



## MikeSM

PS Does anyone have any input on if the programming costs are reasonable? Seems a little much for what is being handled, as installation is called out separately.

thx
mike


----------



## spiwrx

Unless through your Homeseer I don't know how you would otherwise use the RR2 sensors with 3rd party. 

If you are inclined to program through the homeseer, I might suggest negotiating better hours on you programming, or for the cost you could get yourself trained and save about $8k or more... Personally I offer my clients the option for me to train them vs. programming for them (if they are inclined) it's not in my main business to do programming, we are usually just accommodating for contractors that are not or do not want to be.


----------



## spiwrx

Any of you toyed with openHAB with Radio Ra 2? Looks interesting and I have more than a couple PI's laying around. Please let me know your experiences....


----------



## Brian Garber

spiwrx said:


> Any of you toyed with openHAB with Radio Ra 2? Looks interesting and I have more than a couple PI's laying around. Please let me know your experiences....


Woah, thanks for sharing!!! I might give it a shot and let you know. Seems like there was some interest a few years ago to make a binding for RR2, so hopefully it's there by now.


----------



## spiwrx

Brian Garber said:


> Woah, thanks for sharing!!! I might give it a shot and let you know. Seems like there was some interest a few years ago to make a binding for RR2, so hopefully it's there by now.


I toyed with it a little last night for the first time. For Lutron they only have a RR2 binding right now, but suggests most of their systems use same/similar telnet conventions. 

I was able to get their "simple" UI up on my network quickly without much fuss, after installing the binding (also really simple through the ui) it found my main repeater and shortly after about 1/2 of my devices and most of my keypads. 

I was able to control lights immediately, the ones that showed up anyway. The keypads seemed non-functional but did reflect button LED status.

Again, I loaded the "simple - paper gui" and I could just control the light. This a.m. I upgrade my config from "simple" to "standard" and the dialog to do some conditionals or what they call "rules" comes up. 

It looks like I have to do some re-naming to make this more easy to use, as I don't know my device ID's by number and didn't have time to pull a report yet, but they have made that renaming_(for openHab)_ pretty simple in the GUI also...

I also loaded binding for my Samsung TV and found it immediately, but it would let me control that yet. Not sure if I need the hub for that or not. 

I'm sure this will consume my free time this weekend and I'll report back, but it looks simple and promising so far. 

_Side note, I'm using this on the Raspberry Pi but they have other versions for other OS as well. _


----------



## spiwrx

OK, just a quick review for the few minutes I tinkered with openHAB on Raspberry Pi last night. 

First impression is I was really impressed. It said it would take 15-45minutes to install onto the PI and it probably took the better part of 15-20 minutes. And a good portion of that is just a static screen so you're not quite sure if it's doing anything. _[15-20minutes was actually on the pi, I first had to download and write the image to my micro sd card which only took a few minutes]


_I wasn't quite clear at first but the intention of the pi installation is just to have the PI live on the network, with just a network and power connection. You do get a command prompt if you have a connected monitor, but unless you like working in that it has an easily accessible browser interface to work from your PC or MAC. The GUI is really clean and straight forward. I like to see how far I can get be fore I need instructions and I was able to add the Lutron Binding and it discovered my main repeater, most of my keypads and about 1/2 of my dimmers/switches. 

I started in what the call their "simple" installation, and all I was able to do was control my lights that it found. 

It did have the option to manually add my other devices it didn't discover. I'm not sure why it didn't find them all, but I kind of have a lousy network arrangement were I was tinkering in my garage I behind 3 un-managed switches. I could operate some lights, and then I couldn't. Since I didn't need the monitor I moved the PI to my main switch and I got more consistent results. 

So quickly I was able to operate some lights directly, but I was unable to key keypads to be responsive, although their status LED's would show up. And the keypad buttons are only labeled Button 1, Button 2, etc... though there does be a way to name them within openHAB. I'll have to dig deeper into the keypads later. 

I quickly found out in the "simple" configuration I could only control the lights. This A.M. I only had a few minuets but I changed my .cfg to "standard" and it opened up the dialog to do some conditional stuff or what they call "rules". I din't get past that because I ran out of time, but again this is from just following a few lines from their quick start. I need to study up a bit, get my integration report out of my RR2 and spend some more time on it...

All in all I was impressed with clean and easily understandable GUI. Looks very promising. It had a binding for Samsung TV also, to I tried that quickly and it found my TV but I wasn't able to control it. Not sure if I need Samsung's smart HUB or not, I was still behind my 3 switches when I was trying... 

I didn't get that far, but it looks like you can design you're own GUI for regular operation. I also got the app up on my iPhone and addressed but ran out of time to test it... 

I'm sure I'll be wasting a good amount of my free time this weekend beating this up and I'll report back next week.... 

_[sidenote: I'm doing this on the raspberry Pi 2 because I have a few PI 2's laying around collecting dust and they are low power, but I believe you can get this for other OS's as well. Additionally some of the documentation suggests PI 2 or 3 but it appears there is a version for the $5 pi zero as well, keep in mind the PI Zero W is Wifi only or you have to add and configure a USB/Ethernet adapter, but potentially you could have this going for _


----------



## scbauer

Ok, I?m pretty sure my answer is in this thread, but I wasn?t able to find it by searching so I?m sure someone here can help. 

I currently have the Lutron Caseta setup throughout my house (about 30 dimmers and a few plug-in modules). I would like to be able to use my cars HomeLink to trigger some lights on/off or scenes. So I?m planning to get the rr-vcrx BUT I?ve seen the rr-main and am wondering three things...

(1) If I just get the rr-main can it receive the signal from my cars HomeLink and allow me to avoid buying the rr-vcrx?

(2) If I do need to buy the rr-vcrx can I use it stand-alone or do I ALSO need to pair it with an rr-main?

(3) Can the rr-main (and/or) the rr-vcrx communicate with my existing Caseta dimmers and allow me to get rid of my Caseta SmartBridge, or will these two systems remain separate?

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## amattas

Is HomeSeer the way to go for an automation controller with RR2? I was looking at HomeSeer and HASS, but HASS integration is quite limited. Are there other good options?


----------



## spiwrx

scbauer said:


> Ok, I?m pretty sure my answer is in this thread, but I wasn?t able to find it by searching so I?m sure someone here can help.
> 
> I currently have the Lutron Caseta setup throughout my house (about 30 dimmers and a few plug-in modules). I would like to be able to use my cars HomeLink to trigger some lights on/off or scenes. So I?m planning to get the rr-vcrx BUT I?ve seen the rr-main and am wondering three things...
> 
> (1) If I just get the rr-main can it receive the signal from my cars HomeLink and allow me to avoid buying the rr-vcrx?
> 
> (2) If I do need to buy the rr-vcrx can I use it stand-alone or do I ALSO need to pair it with an rr-main?
> 
> (3) Can the rr-main (and/or) the rr-vcrx communicate with my existing Caseta dimmers and allow me to get rid of my Caseta SmartBridge, or will these two systems remain separate?
> 
> Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!


Sorry scbauer, I thought I had written a reply to this a week ago I guess I forgot to hit post... 

(1) If I just get the rr-main can it receive the signal from my cars HomeLink and allow me to avoid buying the rr-vcrx? *NO*

(2) If I do need to buy the rr-vcrx can I use it stand-alone or do I ALSO need to pair it with an rr-main? *You can use it stand alone but you won't be able to do anything with it in terms of communication. It would just be another opener. It couldn't "talk" to you lighting system w/o a repeater.*

(3) Can the rr-main (and/or) the rr-vcrx communicate with my existing Caseta dimmers and allow me to get rid of my Caseta SmartBridge, or will these two systems remain separate? *No the 2 systems, RR2 and Caseta, are not compatible in any way. You would have to get rid of the Caseta or try a 3rd party interface like HomeSeer, which leads it to my next post, see my next post... *


----------



## spiwrx

Will those of you with HomeSeer or equivialnt products or software please chime in on your experience so far?

By the way HomeSeer is having a sale on certain products through November, only a few days left. Software at 50% off... _(I cannot personally endorse it, I haven't tried it yet. But I know some of you have and I just purchased the PI software because I couldn't get openHab to work) 

https://www.homeseer.com/support/newsletters/current-promo.htm
_
scbauer, depending on your garage door and or products you could use something like HomeSeer to work with Caseta (it does apparently). I think you have to also but their plug-in. But for around $200 it looks like you should be able to get something going with homeseer.


----------



## dgage

Charmed Quark(CQC) is another option and a competitor of Homeseer.


----------



## op-center

amattas said:


> Is HomeSeer the way to go for an automation controller with RR2? I was looking at HomeSeer and HASS, but HASS integration is quite limited. Are there other good options?


If you are in the Apple ecosystem then the HomeKit app will let you make some simple automations that can be quite powerful.


----------



## vc123

spiwrx said:


> scbauer, depending on your garage door and or products you could use something like HomeSeer to work with Caseta (it does apparently). I think you have to also but their plug-in. But for around $200 it looks like you should be able to get something going with homeseer.


For HomeSeer integration, you'd need Lutron Smart Bridge Pro that supports telnet.


----------



## thebland

Are most Lutron users (in new construction) installing a paneled Lutron system with dumb switches vs installing the pricey smart switches (no paneled system)?


----------



## scbauer

spiwrx said:


> Will those of you with HomeSeer or equivialnt products or software please chime in on your experience so far?
> 
> By the way HomeSeer is having a sale on certain products through November, only a few days left. Software at 50% off... _(I cannot personally endorse it, I haven't tried it yet. But I know some of you have and I just purchased the PI software because I couldn't get openHab to work)
> 
> https://www.homeseer.com/support/newsletters/current-promo.htm
> _
> scbauer, depending on your garage door and or products you could use something like HomeSeer to work with Caseta (it does apparently). I think you have to also but their plug-in. But for around $200 it looks like you should be able to get something going with homeseer.


Thanks spiwrx.


----------



## smoothtlk

dgage said:


> Charmed Quark(CQC) is another option and a competitor of Homeseer.


As is myServer.


----------



## smoothtlk

thebland said:


> Are most Lutron users (in new construction) installing a paneled Lutron system with dumb switches vs installing the pricey smart switches (no paneled system)?


Not sure what you mean by "paneled"...

There are Lutron standard dumb switches and decora style.

There is Caseta as the entry remote control / automation switches that can be purchased Home Depot et al.

There is RadioRa Select as the new step up from Caseta that has more total device capability

There is RadioRa2 which is the highline for retrofit or standard wired homes

There is Homeworks which requires home run wire loads and low voltage wall switches all run to the central controller.

The percent penetration I am sure is 99% use dumb switches, Caseta being the high volume smart switch, Select is brand new so few installations, RadioRA2 is mature for mid to high end homes, and Homeworks for the largest, most expensive homes.


----------



## thebland

smoothtlk said:


> Not sure what you mean by "paneled"...
> 
> There are Lutron standard dumb switches and decora style.
> 
> There is Caseta as the entry remote control / automation switches that can be purchased Home Depot et al.
> 
> There is RadioRa Select as the new step up from Caseta that has more total device capability
> 
> There is RadioRa2 which is the highline for retrofit or standard wired homes
> 
> There is Homeworks which requires home run wire loads and low voltage wall switches all run to the central controller.
> 
> The percent penetration I am sure is 99% use dumb switches, Caseta being the high volume smart switch, Select is brand new so few installations, RadioRA2 is mature for mid to high end homes, and Homeworks for the largest, most expensive homes.



Paneled, I meant Homeworks.. I was curious as to hhow many here are using it.

I think in my install, it sounds like a nice way to go - but costly and if fully wired this way, you are committed to this type of system forever (as only low voltage going to switches). Any reliability differences between Radio RA and Home works?

Would it make sense to do mostly low voltage, Homeworks based switches on the main floor living area and master and Radio RA switches on other less used places (bedrooms, study, exercise area, etc) to keep equipment costs down?

Not sure which way I want to go (but I sent a lighting plan, maybe give me some options).,Thanks.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Paneled, I meant Homeworks.. I was curious as to hhow many here are using it.
> 
> I think in my install, it sounds like a nice way to go - but costly and if fully wired this way, you are committed to this type of system forever (as only low voltage going to switches). Any reliability differences between Radio RA and Home works?
> 
> Would it make sense to do mostly low voltage, Homeworks based switches on the main floor living area and master and Radio RA switches on other less used places (bedrooms, study, exercise area, etc) to keep equipment costs down?
> 
> Not sure which way I want to go (but I sent a lighting plan, maybe give me some options).,Thanks.


If you do HomeWorks(HWQS) they have paneled and wireless options like Radio Ra 2. The downside to HWQS is as a user it's unlikely or difficult you will get programming software yourself. HWQS installers have to buy their way into it, there are several hurdles and why would they want to give that away? Even if you get it by some means, it maybe simple to figure out, but supporting it and updating it then become a problem. 

We didn't even talk about wiring yet... If you do a paneled system, by all means it's cleaner and more expensive. Also expensive and complicated if/when something fails...

RadioRa2 is a device based system, all tough their WPM Wall Box Power Module, is much like a Paneled system Module. With a device based system you can traditionally wire and locate your devices(switches / dimmers / Keypads). So if you hate it you can always revert to regular switches. You can create your own paneled system with devices. Many Homes I go to have closets, equipment rooms, pantry, etc... with just a group of a dozen dimmers or more/less. It doesn't have to go in a "panel", we are just remotely locating these things so you can clean up the wall and have as many devices as you like to group your lights. 

Paneled systems are usually large and cumbersome. Hiding and accessing these doesn't play well to every home. Working on these panels in an attic or other tight space they are commonly shoved in, isn't fun. With Device based system you can locate just a few relevant devices in a nearby closet, behind a door, in a cabinet, etc... so they are more localized. With RR2 you can put them wherever. 

With a centralized panel system the amount of actual wire you use could double. And significant cost in wiring and labor, and that many more holes drilled through your framing and potential for associated problems... With a localized device based system you may need a little extra wire, but usually just a matter of relocating the switch box to a different wall.... 

If you have a very large home (10,000sqft) or a ton of devices, HWQS may still be the best option, but most of us less than 100 devices, even to RR2 max of 200, it covers most of our needs very well. And if you hate it, there is other competitive products you could replace it with or default back to traditional switching... 

That being said, adding basic conditionals to RR2 through HomeSeer seems pretty easy, to add next level to RR2.... Continued in next post....


----------



## spiwrx

Just wanted to chime in on my initial reactions to the PI-based HomeSeer software...



Setup was fairly easy, though it did require a couple stops to the forum as the documentation, at least for the PI version software is not 100%. But Google and their own forum got me the answers quickly.
Once I got the software on the PI and the PI up on my network, I was able to get out of my equipment closet and interface through a browser interface...
Once I entered licensing info I added my RR2 plug-in and auto discovered all of my devices. (this took a bit more time then I expected, but auto discovery may have took 15 minutes and I have about 66 Lutron devices)
Initially this did nothing, even though everything showed up. The control interface seems really intuitive but it wasn't responsive...
I rebooted, first line of defense.... Same result.... nothing but a list of my stuff... (Re-booting, seemed to by default wipe out my RR2 Plug-In, I had to reload it...)
Then, minutes later it just worked(???)
Then I was quickly able to add a conditional based on my Kitchen ""All Off". I had added a pantry switch and never included it to the room all off I have, so I decided to test it here. And the dialog are really quite clear and simple, "when I press this button turn this (other) device off"
So my thoughts are you could now use a dimmer as a keypad in a simple regard to turn on something else, this is commonly requested...


You could theoretically tie Caseta and RR2 systems together by these means, but you would need full systems of both to make it work. Seems prohibitive, but if you worked yourself into a hole you may have an option


Likewise you can integrate with all other available plug-ins...


Keep in mind I only have about 1hr into the homeseer, but I'm impressed in the simplicity at this point and well worth what I had to pay I think. I would hope the Plug-In's were less expensive, but they give you Zigbee and I only need Lutron RR2 at this point...


I'll report back after I get more comfortable with it, but so far I'm impressed....


If someone has a specif question about HomeSeer / RR2, I would be happy to test or check it out on my system....


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> If you do HomeWorks(HWQS) they have paneled and wireless options like Radio Ra 2. The downside to HWQS is as a user it's unlikely or difficult you will get programming software yourself. HWQS installers have to buy their way into it, there are several hurdles and why would they want to give that away? Even if you get it by some means, it maybe simple to figure out, but supporting it and updating it then become a problem.
> 
> We didn't even talk about wiring yet... If you do a paneled system, by all means it's cleaner and more expensive. Also expensive and complicated if/when something fails...
> 
> RadioRa2 is a device based system, all tough their WPM Wall Box Power Module, is much like a Paneled system Module. With a device based system you can traditionally wire and locate your devices(switches / dimmers / Keypads). So if you hate it you can always revert to regular switches. You can create your own paneled system with devices. Many Homes I go to have closets, equipment rooms, pantry, etc... with just a group of a dozen dimmers or more/less. It doesn't have to go in a "panel", we are just remotely locating these things so you can clean up the wall and have as many devices as you like to group your lights.
> 
> Paneled systems are usually large and cumbersome. Hiding and accessing these doesn't play well to every home. Working on these panels in an attic or other tight space they are commonly shoved in, isn't fun. With Device based system you can locate just a few relevant devices in a nearby closet, behind a door, in a cabinet, etc... so they are more localized. With RR2 you can put them wherever.
> 
> With a centralized panel system the amount of actual wire you use could double. And significant cost in wiring and labor, and that many more holes drilled through your framing and potential for associated problems... With a localized device based system you may need a little extra wire, but usually just a matter of relocating the switch box to a different wall....
> 
> If you have a very large home (10,000sqft) or a ton of devices, HWQS may still be the best option, but most of us less than 100 devices, even to RR2 max of 200, it covers most of our needs very well. And if you hate it, there is other competitive products you could replace it with or default back to traditional switching...
> 
> That being said, adding basic conditionals to RR2 through HomeSeer seems pretty easy, to add next level to RR2.... Continued in next post....


Thanks for the detailed and articulate response. That answers much of my questions.

I am building a new house (4500 sq ft excluding a 2000 sq ft basement).

I think based on your post and my own research, the Radio RA is the way to go. I didn't want to dedicate a huge amount to this part of the budget as other areas are calling. My builder has a C4 install company selected to do the low voltage and lighting - I may forgo them.

I had a Honeywell Z-Wave, Tuxedo Touch set up in my old home and liked it quite a bit except for the actual light switches and the lag associated with Z-wave commands and feedback.

A couple more things...

1. I assume the Lutron Radio Ra is much 'faster' and quicker, more reliable feedback vs Zwave? Correct??

2. As you implied, install costs would be much less vs a paneled system as I can have the electricians install the Radio Ra switches and do all the programming later.

3. As far as integrating lights with the security system and making scenes, etc, what software do you like?

Appreciate it!


----------



## dgage

theBland - You might want to check out the Cocoontech forums as they are more focused on home automation. I've read that forum for years and it was pivotal in me choosing RadioRa2 and CQC. Lutron RadioRa2 has always been rock solid for me and based on my anecdotal readings of other technologies such as UPB, Zwave, Zigbee, and Insteon, RadioRa2 is light years ahead in terms of reliability.


----------



## njmike

spiwrx said:


> Just wanted to chime in on my initial reactions to the PI-based HomeSeer software...


This is really attractive. I don't have a Windows machine that's always on and I don't want one, (I have an always-on Mac), but I took a look at Indigo and I'm not sure it's for me. Did you get the Pi from Homeseer or did you already have one? Theirs has built-in Z-wave. I don't have any Z-wave in the house and don't currently intend to install any, so I don't know whether it would make more sense to buy it from them or elsewhere.


----------



## Neurorad

thebland said:


> Paneled, I meant Homeworks.. I was curious as to hhow many here are using it.
> 
> I think in my install, it sounds like a nice way to go - but costly and if fully wired this way, you are committed to this type of system forever (as only low voltage going to switches). Any reliability differences between Radio RA and Home works?
> 
> Would it make sense to do mostly low voltage, Homeworks based switches on the main floor living area and master and Radio RA switches on other less used places (bedrooms, study, exercise area, etc) to keep equipment costs down?
> 
> Not sure which way I want to go (but I sent a lighting plan, maybe give me some options).,Thanks.


If you want to DIY any of your home automation, you should generally avoid HomeWorks/QS. The only way to make that work would be to partner with a QS dealer, someone who will let you use the software. And, that is really rare to find that integrator. It costs them time and money - not part of their business plan.

I originally leaned toward HomeWorks/QS, but the buy-in was cost prohibitive, to my wife. 

I've been pleased with RA2 myself, slowing adding rooms as we renovate our house, over the last 8 years. It's been, overall, a good experience. Originally, I bought my devices from a local electrical supply house, then from a national Home Automation supply store, and then switched to Paul/Spiwrx a few years ago. He provides outstanding support for the many questions I have.

One of the great things about RA2 is that I can have my electrician install the dimmers and keypads, and it works immediately as a light switch, without programming. I can take my time as needed. But, that's also a detractor - sometimes I drag my feet and it takes months. With a pro 'Home Integrator', everything is programmed from the get-go, all keypads programmed immediately, with working scenes, by someone who has experience programming scenes.

I strongly suggest you take a few hours' time and take the RA2 online certification course, to see what it's all about, before you buy in. Much of the course consists of a commercials promoting Lutron and RA2, but it's overall a great intro.

I have 13 RA2 devices in boxes, waiting on the electrician to install. It's been difficult to get my electrician out to the house lately (construction market is crazy here), so I may find the time soon to install them myself. My electrician's 'to-do' list is huge, not just RA2, so he still needs to come out, anyway. Just anxious to get these new devices up and running.


----------



## spiwrx

njmike said:


> This is really attractive. I don't have a Windows machine that's always on and I don't want one, (I have an always-on Mac), but I took a look at Indigo and I'm not sure it's for me. Did you get the Pi from Homeseer or did you already have one? Theirs has built-in Z-wave. I don't have any Z-wave in the house and don't currently intend to install any, so I don't know whether it would make more sense to buy it from them or elsewhere.


That's exactly why the PI was attractive to me. I have a couple older version 2's laying around so I just used one. The HomeSeer site says PI3, but except for a little slower processor I think functionally they are the same. Looking at their instructions it does reference the PI 2 & 3, inconsistently. Again I don't think it matters for this purpose as we're not really taxing the processor. 

Their unit is fair priced and has a nice case, but you can get the latest PI for < $40 and a small microSD. Amazon has a ton of packages including a power supply & case. I assume theirs comes preloaded. I'm familiar with the PI so the setup wasn't much more then unzip their download and following some on screen prompts... Once you get through the setup you can disconnect the keyboard, mouse & monitor and just leave it powered on your network. All the rest can be done from a browser. 

I didn't get much more time to play with it, but working well with the one condition I did set up. There is maybe a 1 second lag when initiated from another RR2 device, but from within the HS3 APP or control it's almost instant. 

The download they sell also has Z-Wave by default.


----------



## FlyingDiver

njmike said:


> This is really attractive. I don't have a Windows machine that's always on and I don't want one, (I have an always-on Mac), but I took a look at Indigo and I'm not sure it's for me. Did you get the Pi from Homeseer or did you already have one? Theirs has built-in Z-wave. I don't have any Z-wave in the house and don't currently intend to install any, so I don't know whether it would make more sense to buy it from them or elsewhere.


What's your issue with Indigo? It's a really good automation system. And it works just fine with RRA2.


----------



## njmike

FlyingDiver said:


> What's your issue with Indigo? It's a really good automation system. And it works just fine with RRA2.


Fair question. I've not dug far enough into either one yet to know for sure. I've implemented RR2, but I haven't tied it into anything else yet (except for a Somfy roller shade). I was initially thinking Indigo when the time comes for more integration because it runs on Mac, but at some point I started to get the impression that Indigo was more about building interfaces for tablets/phones to control the home, and that's not what I'm interested in. I just want events on one device -- Nest thermostat for example -- to trigger things in RR2 and/or vice-versa. (Just one basic example. I have others.) A quick glance at Homeseer looked like maybe it would be better for that. But again, I really haven't done the necessary digging because I'm not ready to do it yet.

I actually think IFTTT would probably be ideal for this, but of course there isn't an IFTTT integration for RR2...


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## rapamatic

njmike said:


> Fair question. I've not dug far enough into either one yet to know for sure. I've implemented RR2, but I haven't tied it into anything else yet (except for a Somfy roller shade). I was initially thinking Indigo when the time comes for more integration because it runs on Mac, but at some point I started to get the impression that Indigo was more about building interfaces for tablets/phones to control the home, and that's not what I'm interested in. I just want events on one device -- Nest thermostat for example -- to trigger things in RR2 and/or vice-versa. (Just one basic example. I have others.) A quick glance at Homeseer looked like maybe it would be better for that. But again, I really haven't done the necessary digging because I'm not ready to do it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> I actually think IFTTT would probably be ideal for this, but of course there isn't an IFTTT integration for RR2...



Indigo is great for having different events or triggers control different devices, and unlike IFTTT it works when your internet is down. I’ve been using Indigo for years just like this. Obviously it is more costly than IFTTT, but a lot more flexible and powerful. It’s in a totally different class than IFTTT. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thebland

So can you install these Lutron RADIO RA switches/dimmers and they will work like normal dimmers out of the box? Don't need a cursory programming to have them function?


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## rapamatic

thebland said:


> So can you install these Lutron RADIO RA switches/dimmers and they will work like normal dimmers out of the box? Don't need a cursory programming to have them function?




Yes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HDengineer

For those that have played around with openhab,

There is a new lutron RA2 binding that I have been beta testing. It resolves all of the issues previously noted. It will auto-detect all lutron devices properly, and has full functionality for VCRX, phantom scenes, and driving keypad LED's. I've been really impressed. The developer is looking for more beta testers, so PM me if you want me to put you in touch.


-Erik


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## Sparkycoog

Neurorad said:


> If you want to DIY any of your home automation, you should generally avoid HomeWorks/QS. The only way to make that work would be to partner with a QS dealer, someone who will let you use the software. And, that is really rare to find that integrator. It costs them time and money - not part of their business plan.
> 
> I originally leaned toward HomeWorks/QS, but the buy-in was cost prohibitive, to my wife.
> 
> I've been pleased with RA2 myself, slowing adding rooms as we renovate our house, over the last 8 years. It's been, overall, a good experience. Originally, I bought my devices from a local electrical supply house, then from a national Home Automation supply store, and then switched to Paul/Spiwrx a few years ago. He provides outstanding support for the many questions I have.
> 
> One of the great things about RA2 is that I can have my electrician install the dimmers and keypads, and it works immediately as a light switch, without programming. I can take my time as needed. But, that's also a detractor - sometimes I drag my feet and it takes months. With a pro 'Home Integrator', everything is programmed from the get-go, all keypads programmed immediately, with working scenes, by someone who has experience programming scenes.
> 
> I strongly suggest you take a few hours' time and take the RA2 online certification course, to see what it's all about, before you buy in. Much of the course consists of a commercials promoting Lutron and RA2, but it's overall a great intro.
> 
> I have 13 RA2 devices in boxes, waiting on the electrician to install. It's been difficult to get my electrician out to the house lately (construction market is crazy here), so I may find the time soon to install them myself. My electrician's 'to-do' list is huge, not just RA2, so he still needs to come out, anyway. Just anxious to get these new devices up and running.


One thing about the Homeworks QS, Radio Ra2, or really any other modern system's software is they are constantly updating it as new devices, bug fixes, and functionality is built it. So giving a customer a software that will be outdated in a month is just asking for trouble and it's a complete violation of the terms of having access to it. I've heard a lot of people tell me "I'm a software engineer, if I can figure out binary search trees in C, I think I can figure out a few light switches", but the learning curve without any training and without any electrical experience is too much so sooner or later, the homeowner is going to get stuck and then guess who's going to have to make a free service call. My feeling is that unless the customer has gotten formal training with Lutron and has access to the software themselves, I never give them a copy of the design software. I would happily give them a backup copy of the database in case they want to change dealers or their processor dies however. 

Because of that, what I do with a new system is program it the way I think would benefit them the most, ask the customer to live with it for a month and make notes about things they liked changed, things that bother them, things they like to remove, and things they like to add (when it's not a whole home system), then I come back in a month and do the final programming and order the engraving for the keypads. At that point, most people, unless they are a DIYer who constantly want to make changes, they are 99% there. For the other 1%, the Lutron App gives the customer a lot of power to change the lighting levels for scenes and timers so they don't need to mess with the design software. When something goes wrong, we give them a year warranty and fix them for free (unless a landscaper power-washes the switch in the garage or something and blows it up), and after that, most people who have a Homeworks or Ra2 system live in a multi-million dollar house and hire people to wash their underwear so they understand that there is maintenance involved in that house and it won't kill them to spend a few hundred bucks now and then and a few thousand bucks in 10 years to update their system. 

As for Panel vs. non-Panel, when I started doing systems 13+ years ago, I was all about the panel. I'd go to a luxury house and I'd see a beautiful LiteTouch, Vantage, or Lutron Homeworks system and all you'd see on the wall was a little keypad that controlled not just the whole room but the whole house. Decorators loved them too because instead of seeing 15 ugly paddle switches on the wall, that little keypad with the "Evening" scene would bring the whole house to life and decoupling the controls from the actual electrical part was a beautiful thing. I initially got trained so I could service installed houses but started installing them too (Vantage was my favorite panelized system, even more than Homeworks to be honest) but over the years, I've started to think they might be more trouble than they're worth, even for millionaires.

The problem is that if the processor ever dies, you are screwed. NOTHING in the house will work, unless you had some sort of hybrid design where you left a few manual switches on the walls in key areas or perhaps used remote wired or wireless dimmers in key areas to at least turn on a few lights so at that point, you are completely at the mercy of the dealers to come replace the processor or perhaps bring a loaner while the other one is fixed if they do that. 

In some cases, you are really screwed because LiteTouch was bought by Savant and discontinued so at that point your only option is to go to Ebay and find a replacement and hope there is an old dealer who still wants to take the risk of working on an old system without support from the original company; or you'd have to change the system completely and spend 10's of thousands of dollars. Fortunately, both Lutron and Vantage offer retrofit options where you'd use the same wiring and have to replace all your modules, keypads, and processors. It will be very expensive, but still much cheaper than gutting the house and changing the wiring of the lighting completely. 

In some other cases, your current system may be at end of life (like if you have a Homeworks Illumination series 4 processor), and your only option at that point is to upgrade to Homeworks QS - you'd reuse the same RPMs, some keypad types, etc. but you'd pay a license fee in addition to the programming and installation fees...

In yet another case, you may find that your favorite dealer is out of business, or has been dropped by the company. We were recently dropped by such a company due to "low sales" even though we service dozens of systems for that company and have had happy customers, but as DIY products and semi-pro products are eating into the pro-install market, a lot of the big names are doubling down on the high end homes and want dealers who can sell sell sell more than doing service. I am dreading having to tell longtime customers that "sorry, even though I ran every one of the wires in your house, did all the high voltage and low voltage connections myself, know where every single thing is located, and know every byte of the programming by heart, you're going to have to find an AV company who mostly sells new systems and has never seen your house to service your system if something needs a new part. 

If it were a non-panelized system and they went out of business, no problem, just go to the wall and turn on the lights  So now days I try to suggest against panels, or walls of wall mount modules even. If you don't want to see the dimmers, just put them in the closet nearby...worst case you have to walk to the closet to turn on the lights for a week before you figure out how to fix the issue or change systems. There are always wireless systems coming out. So far we're down to only two companies who do panelized systems (in the US) that have proven to stay in business and one of them is making some choices that I don't like...


----------



## ksalno

Sparkycog,

When it comes to customer programming, maybe I'm the exception that proves your point but I've been working with RadioRA2 software since 2005 before Lutron had an iPad app or opened it up to consumers who completed their training. I started as a computer programmer but have moved up in the ranks, so haven't actively coded in many years. My first RA2 system was for a 1700 sqft 2nd home and the electrician did the initial installation and programming and then turned over a copy of the code and DB to me. I quickly learned how to add new devices by looking at the configuration of the existing switches, etc. Same thing with making schedule changes or adding new scenes, phantom keypads, etc. If Lutron released something new that I needed, my installer would provide me a copy of the install file but that wasn't necessary very often in those days.

With that success under my belt, I contracted to have my main 9000 sqft home done in all RadioRA2 in 2007 (replacing some X10 crap that never worked). Again, the electrical company did the equipment install and initial programming and then turned it over to me, along with an id/pw that allowed me to download my own updates. Since then, I've added HVAC controls, outdoor light controls and schedules, Lutron shades, LEDs, upgraded from Essentials to Inclusive, etc, all without any formal training from Lutron. I know have close to 100 devices on my network and have integrated it with Alexa for voice control. Every once in a while if I get stuck, I shoot my electrician a question via email and he gets me over the hump. I continue to give his company all of my electrical and lighting business, so it isn't like I'm asking for a lot of "free" services. 

I'm not going to ever be a professional Lutron programmer and I'm sure there are features about Inclusive that I know nothing about, but I like the flexibility of going in and making changes on my own without having to bring back the original installer and I think the arrangement has worked to both of our advantages.

As I said at the open, I may be the exception and you may be right that 99% of the people with larges houses who choose RA 2 don't want to be bothered or don't have the background to take on their own programming. I'm only trying to say that this isn't the case for everyone, which is why I am on this forum and most of them probably aren't.


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## FlyingDiver

njmike said:


> Fair question. I've not dug far enough into either one yet to know for sure. I've implemented RR2, but I haven't tied it into anything else yet (except for a Somfy roller shade). I was initially thinking Indigo when the time comes for more integration because it runs on Mac, but at some point I started to get the impression that Indigo was more about building interfaces for tablets/phones to control the home, and that's not what I'm interested in. I just want events on one device -- Nest thermostat for example -- to trigger things in RR2 and/or vice-versa. (Just one basic example. I have others.) A quick glance at Homeseer looked like maybe it would be better for that. But again, I really haven't done the necessary digging because I'm not ready to do it yet.
> 
> I actually think IFTTT would probably be ideal for this, but of course there isn't an IFTTT integration for RR2...


FWIW, I have a pretty extensive Indigo based system, and rarely ever use any of the mobile device control pages, which is what you're referring to. I have time and trigger based events, and I use the RRA2 motion detectors and keypads to control non-RRA2 devices.

It's really easy to set up cross-device triggers and actions with Indigo.

I would never consider using IFTTT for control of devices where both the trigger device and the action device are internal to the home. If you do that, everything breaks if your internet is down. Or if IFTTT has an outage. I've actually set things up so that some IoT devices that are trying to sent emails or do web requests are all handled internal to my home network using Indigo or my NAS, so they're immune to Internet outages.


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## spiwrx

I was looking for literature that shows all the Keypad and Engraving options, but I couldn't find one so I created this quickly. Hope it helps some of you. 

For those of you unaware, when you purchase a Radio Ra 2 Keypad, you can order any of these configurations, but most commonly you start with the standard RRD-W6BRL. It's the best place to start. Included with each is a Prepaid Engraving Certificate. When you are set on your button assignments and engraving you can redeem your certificate for a set of custom engraved buttons. When you fill out the engraving form you can decide to change it to any other available configuration for your "Wall" or "Hybrid" keypad. _(it ships initially ships with blank buttons and temporary labels)

**please note "Hybrid" and Regular "Wall" keypad button options are different. They also mount differently to the actual device. They are not interchangeable and have unique engraving forms.**
***you can simply swap the button kits and not adjust any programming (for less buttons), but if you adjust the button type in the software of an already programmed keypad, you may have to reprogram some or all of the buttons and re-activate it.***
****The App will show the programmed button type if it differs from the engraved set****_


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## Sparkycoog

ksalno said:


> Sparkycog,
> 
> When it comes to customer programming, maybe I'm the exception that proves your point but I've been working with RadioRA2 software since 2005 before Lutron had an iPad app or opened it up to consumers who completed their training. I started as a computer programmer but have moved up in the ranks, so haven't actively coded in many years. My first RA2 system was for a 1700 sqft 2nd home and the electrician did the initial installation and programming and then turned over a copy of the code and DB to me. I quickly learned how to add new devices by looking at the configuration of the existing switches, etc. Same thing with making schedule changes or adding new scenes, phantom keypads, etc. If Lutron released something new that I needed, my installer would provide me a copy of the install file but that wasn't necessary very often in those days.


Not to get pedantic, but if this was in 2005, you were using Radio Ra classic which didn't have any software for setup. You'd have to hold the 2nd and 4th buttons on the keypad to add dimmers, and then walk around the house and "tap tap tap" on them, then press the 1st and the 5th button and walk around and set the levels...and for a large job, you'd hate everything about it! Then they came with Chronos which had some user feedback and a timer, but it was also a pain. Back then, for a job with more than 30 devices, I'd insist on Wireless Homeworks and I have a lot of those systems still running trouble free 12 years later. Maybe you meant 2015. 

Radio Ra2 and Homeworks QS which use the current Clear Connect technology came along in 2010 or 2011 I believe and the software has gone through a lot of changes during that time as well so even someone who was trained for radio ra 2 in 2011 would need a refresher on all the new things added since then - Connect Bridge, the ability to have loads in a different room than the dimmer, new types of dimmers, etc.


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## ksalno

Yes, I'm sure you're right, thanks for refreshing my memory. My first Lutron system was installed in 2005 but as you pointed out, there was no Lutron software. I believe I was using an early version of Homeseer or something similar to do my automation back then. I recall some type of klugie serial port interface that was required to talk to the Lutron system. My next project was in early 2010 (based on my invoice file). That is the one where I got a copy of the software and have been doing my own programming ever since. I still order my devices through the electrician that did the original work and I have them come to do install work (I recently added a new room with LV lighting, shades, and a keypad). 

However, I do all the programming, including adding a Connect Bridge when that first came out. As I said, I probably don't use all of the functionality that is available, but I get done what I need and if I decide to create a new scene or schedule, I just sit down and do it. If I don't like the results, I change it. I'm currently in the process of going room by room and replacing a whole house Savant system with Harmony Hubs for my AV for the same reason. Tired of having to wait a month to get a programmer to come out to make minor changes or fix something that isn't working. I'm currently running trials of Homeseer and Indigo to determine which I will use to tie my Lutron, Harmony, irrigation, pool, etc control systems together. From what I can see on their forums, there seem to be plenty of other like me that want to control their own home automation systems.


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## spiwrx

Don't mean to side track any of you, but are any of you using any of the Automated Deadbolts or locksets? Reviews? My latest car just unlocks with my keys in my pocket and I've instantly got lazy enough that I want that feature on my front door. I see some that are Key FOB based, smart phone based, keypad, etc... But I just want it proximity based. If the geofencing accurate enough to reduce to a small area??

I have a Baldwin lockset, but they use "Evolved" but it looks like a FOB or APP (KEVO) is still required...


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## Swancoat

I just want to jump in on the 'should I or shouldn't I get RadioRa1?' part.

I switched from Insteon to RadioRa2 a couple of years ago, and haven't looked back. RadioRa2 has more or less been bulletproof. I'm simply amazed at just how well it works. It IS pricey (or it is for me, since I'm on a DIY-type budget), but worth it. Not mentioned so far seems to be Lutron's customer service.

I've only had a few issues. One was a main repeater that cratered on a software update. When you call Lutron tech support, you make maybe one keypad selection and then talk to a person. And the person is knowledgeable. A very smart support tech walked me through NUMEROUS steps to try and bring this main repeater back to life (and didn't patronize me with 'did you reboot your router'? etc...). Eventually, it became apparent that it was indeed 'bricked' and Lutron sent me a replacement with express shipping.

The other problem I've had was with some shades. I have a set of roller shades in my living room (which are AWESOME) but a couple of them started to fail this summer. It was a weird failure where they would sometimes just stop, while the others continued to open or whatever (with an LED indication that the fabric was binding or jammed - but there as not obstruction at all). Eventually they got to where they wouldn't move at all. This was annoying because shades are all custom built, and these were out of warranty. I called Lutron just to see if they knew how I could fix them or what the problem was. They asked me to make a video showing the issue and send it to them. Shortly after they asked me for a photo of the stickers inside the battery compartment and informed me that they couldn't be fixed, but they're making some new ones and shipping them out ASAP. THAT makes them worth the money. I'll be buying more shades.

(Well, I WANT to buy more shades, but I'm getting close to 100 devices and need to move to Inclusive. I've been meaning to take inclusive training for a while, but don't want to take a few days of work off and travel for it. Last spring I switched jobs and had 2 months off in between. In a miraculous co-incidence, Lutron hosted Inclusive training during my time off at a hotel about a mile from my house. I registered immediately, but was then contacted by the local area rep asking what my 'company' was. When I told him I didn't have one, he kicked me out of the training and refunded my money. I know I've posted about this before, but I'm still super pi**ed about it.)

Other notes: I also use Indigo, and yes, it supplies a lot of conditional logic for my RadioRa2 setup. Works great, and I love it. I can't imagine using IFTTT for something like that.

Also, ALL of my RadioRa2 stuff was bought from Paul (spiwrx) and anything else I buy will be as well. He's been very competitive and helpful with any questions I have.


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## Swancoat

Does anyone have any experience with the RadioRa2 TouchPro Thermostat? (The one that looks like a normal Honeywell one, and is ClearConnect, not WiFi).

Thermostats have easily been the most disappointing part of my HA setup, and these Honeywell ones with RadioRa2 built-in them will probably be the most easily and reliably controllable for my system.


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## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the RadioRa2 TouchPro Thermostat? (The one that looks like a normal Honeywell one, and is ClearConnect, not WiFi).
> 
> Thermostats have easily been the most disappointing part of my HA setup, and these Honeywell ones with RadioRa2 built-in them will probably be the most easily and reliably controllable for my system.


I have the TouchPro but have very simple needs, heating only (no A/C) & it really only runs about 3-4 months our of the year. It's really basic, set temp's, times, etc... and it works. I don't touch it at all....
There have been some issues in the past with the APP reading a couple degrees different than the stat, but I think they have that worked out. If I ever change to a zoned(HVAC) system I will add some additional temp sensors. I think like many homes the original thermostat placement is poor. Additionally I have a 2 story and the stat is on the bottom, so it's a compromise. If I zone it, it would work better for me, but still looking for some wireless registers or other ways I can zone an existing installation. 

The thermostat in my house goes untouched, I set everything from the APP but like the other RR2 dimmers you can override it locally at the stat or the APP. 

I cannot remember if you have the Connect, I'm pretty sure you do. But that should open you up to a couple more models. 

Funny, looks like my keypad example picture got stripped from a few threads back.... I wonder why....


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## dgage

I have the Ecobee 3/4 and really like it. It doesn't integrate with RadioRa2 but does with Alexa and of course it has an app. I have multiple sensors in the master bedroom and use those (and only those) to drive the temperature for the upstairs since the main thermostat is out in the hall. I really like it and recommend it over the Nest but obviously not if you want RadioRa2 integration.


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## freeoscar

We have 3 touchpro's for our 3 zone system (2 system's, one of which has 2 zones). We have pretty simple systems - single stage A/C's and regular forced air furnaces. They aren't the most attractive T-stat's out there, but they work fine. Integrate well with the rest of the Radio Ra2 system. Not really much to say about them - once I did the initial programming I haven't touched them much. If I need to, remote access from the app works fine. I bought them (new in box) off of Ebay for like $100 or so each, which was an attractive reason to buy them.


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## Foos-Man

I recently added a pool and am finally getting around to finishing the outdoor lighting. I will be installing a 6 button keypad in the breakfast nook. There is currently a double gang box to control porch (ceiling fans and light) as well as light in breakfast nook. The keypad is being added to control new lighting outside. I will need to install a triple-gang box in order to add the keypad. The result will be:

Patio FAN Switch --- Breakfast Nook Light Switch --- Keypad for outdoor lighting (W6BRL)

Before I do this I was actually thinking I could avoid adding a third switch if I could combine the fan control with the W6BRL. Is it possible to remotely control a RRD-2ANF fan switch from a keypad (W6BRL)? I have access to the porch attic and could install a RRD-2ANF in the attic.

Thanks,
Foos


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## dgage

Foos-Man said:


> I recently added a pool and am finally getting around to finishing the outdoor lighting. I will be installing a 6 button keypad in the breakfast nook. There is currently a double gang box to control porch (ceiling fans and light) as well as light in breakfast nook. The keypad is being added to control new lighting outside. I will need to install a triple-gang box in order to add the keypad. The result will be:
> 
> Patio FAN Switch --- Breakfast Nook Light Switch --- Keypad for outdoor lighting (W6BRL)
> 
> Before I do this I was actually thinking I could avoid adding a third switch if I could combine the fan control with the W6BRL. Is it possible to remotely control a RRD-2ANF fan switch from a keypad (W6BRL)? I have access to the porch attic and could install a RRD-2ANF in the attic.
> 
> Thanks,
> Foos


A keypad can control any RadioRa2 switch via the Main Repeater, which essentially means, as long as you program the keypad to control it and it is controlled by a RadioRa2 switch, then the answer is yes. The only caveat I have to that is frequently used lights should not be on a keypad as it is time consuming to identify the correct button and press the right button. But a keypad is perfect for lesser used lights.


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## Foos-Man

dgage said:


> A keypad can control any RadioRa2 switch via the Main Repeater, which essentially means, as long as you program the keypad to control it and it is controlled by a RadioRa2 switch, then the answer is yes. The only caveat I have to that is frequently used lights should not be on a keypad as it is time consuming to identify the correct button and press the right button. But a keypad is perfect for lesser used lights.


Funny, my first thought when your wrote: "frequently used lights" was "not in my house". No one ever turns off lights  I have a occupancy sensor in the kitchen...so no need to turn the lights off...it is the only room the wife/kids actually turn the light off. Seriously though, I agree with you and left the breakfast nook light on a stand alone switch. The keypad is just for the outdoor lights. I decided to add a third switch for the fan...it was going to be a pain and I didn't like the idea of putting a RR2 switch in the attic. I had to remove the existing double gang box, widen the opening and install a trip-gang box. It actually went very smoothly, but was time consuming.


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## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> I recently added a pool and am finally getting around to finishing the outdoor lighting. I will be installing a 6 button keypad in the breakfast nook. There is currently a double gang box to control porch (ceiling fans and light) as well as light in breakfast nook. The keypad is being added to control new lighting outside. I will need to install a triple-gang box in order to add the keypad. The result will be:
> 
> Patio FAN Switch --- Breakfast Nook Light Switch --- Keypad for outdoor lighting (W6BRL)
> 
> Before I do this I was actually thinking I could avoid adding a third switch if I could combine the fan control with the W6BRL. Is it possible to remotely control a RRD-2ANF fan switch from a keypad (W6BRL)? I have access to the porch attic and could install a RRD-2ANF in the attic.
> 
> Thanks,
> Foos


Why not put the Breakfast Nook Light Switch on a Hybrid Keypad, then the fan control can remain in the box and you don't have to hide that one??


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## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> Why not put the Breakfast Nook Light Switch on a Hybrid Keypad, then the fan control can remain in the box and you don't have to hide that one??


That would have also worked, but we decided we liked the idea of having a dedicated rocker switch for the breakfast nook, which meant we would have had to put the fan and outdoor lights onto a hybrid...not totally sure about the ramification of wiring a fan to the hybrid, but at least I would think no speed control. Having 3 gangs is actually quite nice as we have a rocker, 3 speed fan switch and the keypad. I must say, the keypad is really cool. I really like RR2.

As an added bonus, I have found a way to also control my pool functions from the keypad...so I will have a keypad button to control the pool lights, spa, outdoor lights connected to the Pentair Easytouch, etc. I also plan to use a table top controller I have lying around for pool control. I will post more details shortly, but it does not require any hardware interfacing...just a computer, Raspberry Pi, etc. running code. I have a Pentair controller with ScreenLogic2. Some kind soul shared node.js code that allows IP control of the ScreenLogic2 pool controller. I plan to deploy it on a Raspberry Pi, but have most of the code working on a Windows PC for debugging. I'm making it generic enough for others to use with minimal code changes (a few user defined items in the code). It uses the telnet interface on the RR2 repeater and TCP/IP interface on ScreenLogic2.
I applaud Lutron for keeping their repeater open and accessible and the great documentation. ScreenLogic2 is not open and I would have never figured out the control w/out the code I found online.


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## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> That would have also worked, but we decided we liked the idea of having a dedicated rocker switch for the breakfast nook, which meant we would have had to put the fan and outdoor lights onto a hybrid...not totally sure about the ramification of wiring a fan to the hybrid, but at least I would think no speed control. Having 3 gangs is actually quite nice as we have a rocker, 3 speed fan switch and the keypad. I must say, the keypad is really cool. I really like RR2.
> 
> As an added bonus, I have found a way to also control my pool functions from the keypad...so I will have a keypad button to control the pool lights, spa, outdoor lights connected to the Pentair Easytouch, etc. I also plan to use a table top controller I have lying around for pool control. I will post more details shortly, but it does not require any hardware interfacing...just a computer, Raspberry Pi, etc. running code. I have a Pentair controller with ScreenLogic2. Some kind soul shared node.js code that allows IP control of the ScreenLogic2 pool controller. I plan to deploy it on a Raspberry Pi, but have most of the code working on a Windows PC for debugging. I'm making it generic enough for others to use with minimal code changes (a few user defined items in the code). It uses the telnet interface on the RR2 repeater and TCP/IP interface on ScreenLogic2.
> I applaud Lutron for keeping their repeater open and accessible and the great documentation. ScreenLogic2 is not open and I would have never figured out the control w/out the code I found online.


Definitely don't put the actual fan on the hybrid. Bad news.... 

I did my own pool control panel with a VCRX (garage door control) and a handful of relays and I have a variable speed pentair motor that they sell a control board for that will work off the outputs of the VCRX. Does my pump, 2 preset speeds, Heater, valves (for spa), and air (for spa). My pool lights are just on a rr2 switch. Only thing I haven't tackled yet is the temp. control which I plan on when I replace my pool heater maybe next year if it doesn't die before. I never had any kind of controller for the pool previous to this it was just on some switches and a time clock... 

Not sure if that is something the homeSeer piece I have on a Raspberry pi will do, but it may also be something to consider....


----------



## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> Definitely don't put the actual fan on the hybrid. Bad news....
> 
> I did my own pool control panel with a VCRX (garage door control) and a handful of relays and I have a variable speed pentair motor that they sell a control board for that will work off the outputs of the VCRX. Does my pump, 2 preset speeds, Heater, valves (for spa), and air (for spa). My pool lights are just on a rr2 switch. Only thing I haven't tackled yet is the temp. control which I plan on when I replace my pool heater maybe next year if it doesn't die before. I never had any kind of controller for the pool previous to this it was just on some switches and a time clock...
> 
> Not sure if that is something the homeSeer piece I have on a Raspberry pi will do, but it may also be something to consider....


That's awesome. Temp. control should be fun...I think the cycling of heat on/off to get to temperature can be accomplished with a relay into the heater controls. I think something like a Pentair temperature sensor is just a thermistor...let me think about that one. I self contracted my pool build which took way too much time, so any dreams of doing my own controller quickly evaporated. In fact the pool has been done for over 6 months and I finally just finishing the lighting. It involved laying boards over joists and army crawling through a tight attic above the porch. I hope I never have to go up there again! I added several light zones outdoors at which point the RR2 quickly went from being a neat thing to have to being a life saver...just drop in a few switches and control it from a keypad indoors.


----------



## pglover19

Swancoat said:


> I just want to jump in on the 'should I or shouldn't I get RadioRa1?' part.
> 
> I switched from Insteon to RadioRa2 a couple of years ago, and haven't looked back. RadioRa2 has more or less been bulletproof. I'm simply amazed at just how well it works. It IS pricey (or it is for me, since I'm on a DIY-type budget), but worth it. Not mentioned so far seems to be Lutron's customer service.
> 
> I've only had a few issues. One was a main repeater that cratered on a software update. When you call Lutron tech support, you make maybe one keypad selection and then talk to a person. And the person is knowledgeable. A very smart support tech walked me through NUMEROUS steps to try and bring this main repeater back to life (and didn't patronize me with 'did you reboot your router'? etc...). Eventually, it became apparent that it was indeed 'bricked' and Lutron sent me a replacement with express shipping.
> 
> The other problem I've had was with some shades. I have a set of roller shades in my living room (which are AWESOME) but a couple of them started to fail this summer. It was a weird failure where they would sometimes just stop, while the others continued to open or whatever (with an LED indication that the fabric was binding or jammed - but there as not obstruction at all). Eventually they got to where they wouldn't move at all. This was annoying because shades are all custom built, and these were out of warranty. I called Lutron just to see if they knew how I could fix them or what the problem was. They asked me to make a video showing the issue and send it to them. Shortly after they asked me for a photo of the stickers inside the battery compartment and informed me that they couldn't be fixed, but they're making some new ones and shipping them out ASAP. THAT makes them worth the money. I'll be buying more shades.
> 
> (Well, I WANT to buy more shades, but I'm getting close to 100 devices and need to move to Inclusive. I've been meaning to take inclusive training for a while, but don't want to take a few days of work off and travel for it. Last spring I switched jobs and had 2 months off in between. In a miraculous co-incidence, Lutron hosted Inclusive training during my time off at a hotel about a mile from my house. I registered immediately, but was then contacted by the local area rep asking what my 'company' was. When I told him I didn't have one, he kicked me out of the training and refunded my money. I know I've posted about this before, but I'm still super pi**ed about it.)
> 
> Other notes: I also use Indigo, and yes, it supplies a lot of conditional logic for my RadioRa2 setup. Works great, and I love it. I can't imagine using IFTTT for something like that.
> 
> Also, ALL of my RadioRa2 stuff was bought from Paul (spiwrx) and anything else I buy will be as well. He's been very competitive and helpful with any questions I have.


 
Can you provide more details on the Indigo automation software and how you are integrating it with the RadioRa2 system. For example, where does the Indigo software run?


----------



## FlyingDiver

pglover19 said:


> Can you provide more details on the Indigo automation software and how you are integrating it with the RadioRa2 system. For example, where does the Indigo software run?


Indigo runs on macOS. A Mac mini is all you need. It connects to the RRA2 main repeater via Ethernet or serial. There's a plugin for Indigo that gives you full control over the RRA2 system, including triggers for non-Lutron equipment based on RRA2 events and keypad button presses.

Disclaimer - I'm one of the maintainers of the Lutron plugin for Indigo. It supports RRA2 and Caseta.


----------



## pglover19

FlyingDiver said:


> Indigo runs on macOS. A Mac mini is all you need. It connects to the RRA2 main repeater via Ethernet or serial. There's a plugin for Indigo that gives you full control over the RRA2 system, including triggers for non-Lutron equipment based on RRA2 events and keypad button presses.
> 
> Disclaimer - I'm one of the maintainers of the Lutron plugin for Indigo. It supports RRA2 and Caseta.


Where can I find a demo of the system as it relates to interacting with the RRA2 system? I am still unclear on how this would work. For example, my RRA2 main repeater and bridge is located in an equipment closet and connected to my LAN network. Would the Mac mini also be located in the closet as a headless server component? Is there a Indigo client component that runs on an iPad or iPhone? Just trying to figure out how all this works.


----------



## FlyingDiver

pglover19 said:


> Where can I find a demo of the system as it relates to interacting with the RRA2 system? I am still unclear on how this would work. For example, my RRA2 main repeater and bridge is located in an equipment closet and connected to my LAN network. Would the Mac mini also be located in the closet as a headless server component? Is there a Indigo client component that runs on an iPad or iPhone? Just trying to figure out how all this works.


Product website: http://www.indigodomo.com

If you're using ethernet connectivity, then the Mac mini can be anywhere that's on the LAN. A headless unit in an equipment closet is a typical installation (that's how mine is set up). Then I use Screen Sharing when I need to do something directly on that Mac. I also run Plex and some other things on that machine.

There's an iOS client that uses control pages that you design yourself. Or it can do direct control of the defined devices. I don't use control pages much myself, but there are some really fabulous ones that other users have developed. You can also run the control pages in a web browser on non-iOS systems. There's also a third-party Android client.

You can download Indigo and get a limited time Trial license to try it out.


----------



## pglover19

FlyingDiver said:


> Product website: http://www.indigodomo.com
> 
> If you're using ethernet connectivity, then the Mac mini can be anywhere that's on the LAN. A headless unit in an equipment closet is a typical installation (that's how mine is set up). Then I use Screen Sharing when I need to do something directly on that Mac. I also run Plex and some other things on that machine.
> 
> There's an iOS client that uses control pages that you design yourself. Or it can do direct control of the defined devices. I don't use control pages much myself, but there are some really fabulous ones that other users have developed. You can also run the control pages in a web browser on non-iOS systems. There's also a third-party Android client.
> 
> You can download Indigo and get a limited time Trial license to try it out.


Can you provide me examples of what the Indigo system can do that the Lutron RadioRa2 Inclusive system can't. In the Lutron software you can setup scenes, schedules, etc. So why the Indigo system?


----------



## rapamatic

pglover19 said:


> Can you provide me examples of what the Indigo system can do that the Lutron RadioRa2 Inclusive system can't. In the Lutron software you can setup scenes, schedules, etc. So why the Indigo system?




The difference is all about conditional logo and integrating with other non-RR2 systems. Some examples:

At night (sunset) I turn on some lights in my front rooms to a very dim level. However, I don’t want this to happen if the lights are already on in that zone (eg someone is sitting in the room with the lights on bright). 

I press the goodnight RR2 keypad button, and in addition to a lighting scene, it pauses all my sonos speakers, sends me an alert if it can’t close the garage doors, and does a two-stage dim on the hallway lights (go to 30% when goodnight is pressed, then to 10% after ten minutes, unless I have houseguests, then it stays at 20% overnight).

On many keypads I have programmed double and triple tap behaviors. For example, in the keypad at our master bedroom door, one tap of the “Off” button turns off the lights in the bedroom, a double tap also turns off the master bath, and a triple tap turns off the whole second floor. 

In general I try to do as much as I can in RR2, but some conditional logic needs 3rd party software like Indigo or CQC. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FlyingDiver

pglover19 said:


> Can you provide me examples of what the Indigo system can do that the Lutron RadioRa2 Inclusive system can't. In the Lutron software you can setup scenes, schedules, etc. So why the Indigo system?


In addition to the examples already given, using Indigo I can control the Lutron system from my Harmony remotes. So when we sit down to watch TV, I can activate Lutron light scenes just by turning on the TV using the Harmony Hub.

If you want to ask more Indigo specific questions, I would recommend doing so on the Indigo forums, rather than taking this thread off-topic even further.


----------



## DarrenGM

I figured someone could help me identify what I need to get RadioRa2 to work with my gas fireplace. Currently it uses a basic switch to turn on/off the fireplace. It is just a 2 wire low voltage wiring. See attached pics. Anyone know how to achieve this with RRA2? Switch and relay (if so, where can I purchase relay or part#). Thanks!


----------



## Neurorad

Angry that Picos can't toggle. I have 2 KP locations that won't support a KP or Hybrid dimmer.

Stuck with Picos, unless I power remotely using LV.

Nobody would choose QS over RA2 because of this distinction, so why cripple RA2? I'm looking at you, Lutron.


----------



## dgage

Neurorad said:


> Angry that Picos can't toggle. I have 2 KP locations that won't support a KP or Hybrid dimmer.
> 
> Stuck with Picos, unless I power remotely using LV.
> 
> Nobody would choose QS over RA2 because of this distinction, so why cripple RA2? I'm looking at you, Lutron.


The annoying thing is they used to toggle the middle button but took that functionality away. I have a pair of Picos at the head of the bed and use the main buttons to control the master bedroom lights and then have the middle circle turn on the nightlight in the master bath. The off button turns off the master bedroom lights and the nightlight. Isn’t perfect but is an okay workaround. But I agree this is stupid on Lutron’s part. They really have screwed the pooch when it comes to differentiation between QS, RR2, and Caseta. Great technology that works but beyond that I’m not enamored with Lutron.


----------



## schalliol

I thought I used Picos as soon as they were available, but I don't recall the toggle. Agreed a toggle would be nice.

That is curious indeed. I can't imagine anyone buying the five button table top keypad. You might as well go with 10 if you're going to do it. If they could package the 5 button tabletop keypad with a smaller footprint, that would be nice.

I bet now that power management is such that a true portable keypad could be possible.


----------



## Swancoat

DarrenGM said:


> I figured someone could help me identify what I need to get RadioRa2 to work with my gas fireplace. Currently it uses a basic switch to turn on/off the fireplace. It is just a 2 wire low voltage wiring. See attached pics. Anyone know how to achieve this with RRA2? Switch and relay (if so, where can I purchase relay or part#). Thanks!


RR-VCRX-WH

Buy it from Hank's Electric.


----------



## stevestms

DarrenGM said:


> I figured someone could help me identify what I need to get RadioRa2 to work with my gas fireplace. Currently it uses a basic switch to turn on/off the fireplace. It is just a 2 wire low voltage wiring. See attached pics. Anyone know how to achieve this with RRA2? Switch and relay (if so, where can I purchase relay or part#). Thanks!




Just use a RA2 8ANS switch with a 110v/115v AC relay on the load. Then your low volt fireplace wires to relay Common and NO contact. Get the constant hot wire inside the box to power the 8ANS. If the relay is small enough you should be able to put it in the box too. 

Maybe this relay from Amazon:
JQX-13F AC 110V Coil 8 Pin 2NO 2NC Power Relay w PTF08A Base Socket





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scooter_29

I have a silly question... if I have neutral wires in every box, why wouldn’t I use an 8ANS instead of an 8S for LED bulbs? It seems to avoid all sorts of potential headaches with LEDs potentially flickering. Same question for using a 6NA/ ND over the 6CL.


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## schalliol

I?ve never used an 8S, and I don?t see the reason to use one if you have neutrals. However, the 6CL, 6NA and 6/10NDs perform differently. I just put a 6CL in on a chandelier for a job when the 6ND and 6NA had problems with it.

If you can use the LED Tool by Lutron, do so, but they lack a lot of bulbs/lights. I too can?t seem to figure out when to 6ND vs 6CL by rule. Lutron told me the 6ND should work like the 10ND, but cheaper than and of the dimmers. The 6NA definitely is an option when you have reverse phase or very low power loads, like a single bulb.

Would love others? perspectives.


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## scooter_29

I am just going to buy a few devices to try. My high-end builder’s “specialist” (at $100 an hour) knows less than I do. I have a 6NA on one bank of new LED cans to try out and it dims beautifully (far better than my old Caseta dimmer).


----------



## thebland

*RE Lutron Thermostats*

I've read online there are some issues (or feature losses) with Lutron / Honeywell T-Stats in Radio RA2 when combined with Security systems (loos of temp control on 'Away' via alarm). Apparently the Lutron See Touch is the preferred T-Stat.

Also, does the See Touch T-Stat come prepackaged with Hard wired sensor or a another purchase? And do you need multiple Wireless Thermostat Controllers for multiple Furnaces or or zones (I have one furnace with 2 zones)?

Thanks!!


----------



## spiwrx

scooter_29 said:


> I have a silly question... if I have neutral wires in every box, why wouldn’t I use an 8ANS instead of an 8S for LED bulbs? It seems to avoid all sorts of potential headaches with LEDs potentially flickering. Same question for using a 6NA/ ND over the 6CL.


Sorry I missed this when you posted. Most of the pertinent info can really be found in the installation instructions. Including the person that posted about the thermostat. I would review the models you are considering to see how they might connect to your zones. 

8S is primarily for no neutral situation but also dual voltage rated for 120v/277v(commercial use) but has a 40watt minimum load which can be trouble with LED

8ANS is more common / less expensive but requires a neutral. 10watt minimum. 

Now I know it says 40watts and 10 watts but when you dim some of these things down you can sometimes put the dimmer into an unstable condition. So I suggest being 10-20% over the minimum. Especially on the non-neutral switches and dimmers. 

6NA = 5watt (Not to be confused
6CL = 50watt or something off the compatible LED lamp list. (They use to say 1 LED lamp, as long as it was on the list)
6ND Is not LED rated. It's a regular triac dimmer and meant for Incandescent andn MLV loads. It was introduced at a lower price point with the Radio Ra Select to help bring the cost down. It may work with LED and supposedly actly like a 10ND which should have a 10watt minimum (Incandescent / LED) it is not a reverse phase dimmer like the 6NA, but may help with low wattage loads that required the 6NA prior to the launch of the 6ND


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *RE Lutron Thermostats*
> 
> I've read online there are some issues (or feature losses) with Lutron / Honeywell T-Stats in Radio RA2 when combined with Security systems (loos of temp control on 'Away' via alarm). Apparently the Lutron See Touch is the preferred T-Stat.
> 
> Also, does the See Touch T-Stat come prepackaged with Hard wired sensor or a another purchase? And do you need multiple Wireless Thermostat Controllers for multiple Furnaces or or zones (I have one furnace with 2 zones)?
> 
> Thanks!!


I cannot backup any of the "issues" with thermostats. Feature loses? Well I might suggest you will not necessarily have all the functions from an APP that are available directly interfacing with the unit.

You might check the installation diagrams as you didn't really say which HVAC control you were interested in and the installation instruction will shed some light on the connections, if possible, to your zoning. 

The seeTemp is just a wall control, think of it as a keypad. It is not directly a thermal sensor or controller just a more aesthetically pleasing control you can gang with other devices. You can use it with the HVAC Controller or TouchPro. If you want to use the seeTouch, it more often used in conjunction with the HVAC Controller says it requires a wired sensor and should be included, you can add optional wireless RF sensors to a limit. If you are using the programming software you can lay out your system in there and it will let you attach compatible controls and sensors and let you know if you have to many. 

Link to the installation instructions... The TouchPro is a standard Honeywell unit configure for RR2 frequencies so you might get additional infor from Honeywell. 

LRD-WST-C seeTemp Wall Display English (.pdf) LRD-WST-F seeTemp Wall Display LRF2-TWRB Wireless Temperature Sensor English (.pdf) LR-HVAC-1 HVAC Controller English (.pdf) LR-HWLV-HVAC TouchPRO Wireless Thermostat English (.pdf)


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> I cannot backup any of the "issues" with thermostats. Feature loses? Well I might suggest you will not necessarily have all the functions from an APP that are available directly interfacing with the unit.
> 
> You might check the installation diagrams as you didn't really say which HVAC control you were interested in and the installation instruction will shed some light on the connections, if possible, to your zoning.
> 
> The seeTemp is just a wall control, think of it as a keypad. It is not directly a thermal sensor or controller just a more aesthetically pleasing control you can gang with other devices. You can use it with the HVAC Controller or TouchPro. If you want to use the seeTouch, it more often used in conjunction with the HVAC Controller says it requires a wired sensor and should be included, you can add optional wireless RF sensors to a limit. If you are using the programming software you can lay out your system in there and it will let you attach compatible controls and sensors and let you know if you have to many.
> 
> Link to the installation instructions... The TouchPro is a standard Honeywell unit configure for RR2 frequencies so you might get additional infor from Honeywell.
> 
> LRD-WST-C seeTemp Wall Display English (.pdf) LRD-WST-F seeTemp Wall Display LRF2-TWRB Wireless Temperature Sensor English (.pdf) LR-HVAC-1 HVAC Controller English (.pdf) LR-HWLV-HVAC TouchPRO Wireless Thermostat English (.pdf)



Thanks. 

I’m aware of the package and need for the HVAC Controller installed heat the furnace. I read online in a couple of places that the Honeywell/Lutron (Touch-Pro) thermostats have some limitations when integrated with a security system And a smart home control system. For example, when arming away I read in a couple spots that those particular thermostats couldn’t lower the temperature as part of a scene. I may be totally wrong, but that’s why I’m asking. 

The See-Touch thermostat looks very slick to me and will likely use it on the main floor of my home.


----------



## scooter_29

spiwrx said:


> scooter_29 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a silly question... if I have neutral wires in every box, why wouldn’t I use an 8ANS instead of an 8S for LED bulbs? It seems to avoid all sorts of potential headaches with LEDs potentially flickering. Same question for using a 6NA/ ND over the 6CL.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I missed this when you posted. Most of the pertinent info can really be found in the installation instructions. Including the person that posted about the thermostat. I would review the models you are considering to see how they might connect to your zones.
> 
> 8S is primarily for no neutral situation but also dual voltage rated for 120v/277v(commercial use) but has a 40watt minimum load which can be trouble with LED
> 
> 8ANS is more common / less expensive but requires a neutral. 10watt minimum.
> 
> Now I know it says 40watts and 10 watts but when you dim some of these things down you can sometimes put the dimmer into an unstable condition. So I suggest being 10-20% over the minimum. Especially on the non-neutral switches and dimmers.
> 
> 6NA = 5watt (Not to be confused
> 6CL = 50watt or something off the compatible LED lamp list. (They use to say 1 LED lamp, as long as it was on the list)
> 6ND Is not LED rated. It's a regular triac dimmer and meant for Incandescent andn MLV loads. It was introduced at a lower price point with the Radio Ra Select to help bring the cost down. It may work with LED and supposedly actly like a 10ND which should have a 10watt minimum (Incandescent / LED) it is not a reverse phase dimmer like the 6NA, but may help with low wattage loads that required the 6NA prior to the launch of the 6ND
Click to expand...

I have gotten conflicting info on the 6ND. Lutron told me to use the 6ND with my LED cans. Conused... should I just buy the 6NA? I have one sample 6NA device which works with the cans.


----------



## spiwrx

scooter_29 said:


> I have gotten conflicting info on the 6ND. Lutron told me to use the 6ND with my LED cans. Conused... should I just buy the 6NA? I have one sample 6NA device which works with the cans.


If you have the luxury of trying, the 6ND may work just fine, it all depends on the LED. We have not seen any issues with this dimmer yet, but it technically does not have a specific LED/CFL rating. Keep in mind LED manufacturers are trying to make products that work with regular dimmers. So no guarantees but if you have time on you hands and another location to use it if it doesn't work. Test one out! It's definitely _*not*_ ELV / Reverse Phase / Trailing Edge type dimmer. So if you particular LED requires that specifically then jump to the 6NA.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I’m aware of the package and need for the HVAC Controller installed heat the furnace. I read online in a couple of places that the Honeywell/Lutron (Touch-Pro) thermostats have some limitations when integrated with a security system And a smart home control system. For example, when arming away I read in a couple spots that those particular thermostats couldn’t lower the temperature as part of a scene. I may be totally wrong, but that’s why I’m asking.
> 
> The See-Touch thermostat looks very slick to me and will likely use it on the main floor of my home.


If your alarm has a contact closure output or can derive one, you can patch that into a VCRX and you can definitely create a scene(in RR2) that can accomplish that. Additionally with the HomeSeer and I'm assuming Indigo(mac) if your alarm system is compatible with either or both of those, you should also be able to accomplish it (without a VCRX). 

There are a couple of Alarms that work directly with RR2, but usually through the CCI on the VCRX as mentioned above. There may be other options but there are at least a couple ways to get there...


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> If your alarm has a contact closure output or can derive one, you can patch that into a VCRX and you can definitely create a scene(in RR2) that can accomplish that. Additionally with the HomeSeer and I'm assuming Indigo(mac) if your alarm system is compatible with either or both of those, you should also be able to accomplish it (without a VCRX).
> 
> There are a couple of Alarms that work directly with RR2, but usually through the CCI on the VCRX as mentioned above. There may be other options but there are at least a couple ways to get there...


Very cool. 

Hey tell me, what alarms work directly with RR2? Have not picked a panel yet but am considering Elk and Vista.

I looked at Indigo (I'm a Mac user) but it looks a bit beta to me. Homeseer (at least according to their site doesn't seem to support Lutron T-Stats - just lighting. I'm new at this but that is Lutron T-Stats were not listed on their 'supported devices' page (though Honeywell WIFI TStats were).

Thanks!!


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> Very cool.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey tell me, what alarms work directly with RR2? Have not picked a panel yet but am considering Elk and Vista.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked at Indigo (I'm a Mac user) but it looks a bit beta to me. Homeseer (at least according to their site doesn't seem to support Lutron T-Stats - just lighting. I'm new at this but that is Lutron T-Stats were not listed on their 'supported devices' page (though Honeywell WIFI TStats were).
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!!



I can’t answer your question about panels, but I can tell you that Indigo is far from beta. I’ve used it for several years and it’s been very reliable. They have a very active plugin development community, with lots of work on new/improved plugins, but the Lutron plugin, for example, works very reliably. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

rapamatic said:


> I can’t answer your question about panels, but I can tell you that Indigo is far from beta. I’ve used it for several years and it’s been very reliable. They have a very active plugin development community, with lots of work on new/improved plugins, but the Lutron plugin, for example, works very reliably.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good to know. I saw there was no Lutron thermostat support listed. True?

I say beta as the Lutron plug-in had some issues with toggles in phantom buttons on main repeater. 

Thanks


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> Good to know. I saw there was no Lutron thermostat support listed. True?
> 
> 
> 
> I say beta as the Lutron plug-in had some issues with toggles in phantom buttons on main repeater.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks




The Lutron plugin has supported Lutron t-stats for a while. Most plugins are developed by 3rd parties in Indigo - check out the forum for the plugin here: http://forums.indigodomo.com/viewforum.php?f=217&sid=6e86c5792d6d7f2144ea0d3b759111ac and the github page for the plugin here: https://github.com/FlyingDiver/Indigo-radiora2

The plugin is in active development (for improvements, not basic functionality) and thankfully the Lutron API is well documented and robust, so the plugin is stable and relatively easy to code.

I don't know what issues you've seen with phantom toggle buttons, but I use phantom keypads (e.g. coded in Lutron, but not physically present) all the time with Indigo (and the Lutron iOS app) and they work fine. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ksalno

thebland said:


> *RE Lutron Thermostats*
> 
> I've read online there are some issues (or feature losses) with Lutron / Honeywell T-Stats in Radio RA2 when combined with Security systems (loos of temp control on 'Away' via alarm). Apparently the Lutron See Touch is the preferred T-Stat.
> 
> Also, does the See Touch T-Stat come prepackaged with Hard wired sensor or a another purchase? And do you need multiple Wireless Thermostat Controllers for multiple Furnaces or or zones (I have one furnace with 2 zones)?
> 
> Thanks!!


I have 3 RA2 thermostats installed in my home. It is a 3-piece system. There is a wireless HVAC Controller that installs on the furnace and has all of the standard wiring (W-G-R) to control the heating/cooling unit. It is also switch configurable for different types of HVAC systems. It also has a sensor that is installed in the warm air return duct to ensure the heat is always at a minimum temperature even if the rest of the unit fails somehow (I've never used this). The second part is the SeeTemp display/control. It is a one gang box that allows you to manually adjust the temp setting, fan on/auto/off and heat/cool. It has a wireless connection to the HVAC controller, so you can install it anywhere that you have a power feed. The third part is a small wireless temp sensor. These little pucks can be stuck on a wall or placed on a shelf anywhere in the zone. You can use multiple sensors and the HVAC controller will average out the target temp between locations. We use several sensors on our main floor because there is one room that is very sunny, so needs extra cooling and the bedroom needs extra heat in the winter. All 3 parts are sold together in a package but you can also add temp sensors individually. I don't understand your current setup with one HVAC unit serving multiple zones to advise you on that. The 3 part RA2 system replaces a standard thermostat - so if you have two thermostats today, you will likely need two of the RA2 packages but best to talk to a RA2 dealer to make sure.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Very cool.
> 
> Hey tell me, what alarms work directly with RR2? Have not picked a panel yet but am considering Elk and Vista.
> 
> I looked at Indigo (I'm a Mac user) but it looks a bit beta to me. Homeseer (at least according to their site doesn't seem to support Lutron T-Stats - just lighting. I'm new at this but that is Lutron T-Stats were not listed on their 'supported devices' page (though Honeywell WIFI TStats were).
> 
> Thanks!!


What you had originally asked I thought was to send the t-stat to a certain level/setting on the "away" function of your alarm. If you program this temperature to a scene button you can trigger the scene from your alarm via indigo or homeseer. You may be able to directly tie into the thermostat(s) but someone using indigo would have to chime in. Either way you should, with homeseer or indigo, have a way to trigger a scene. Maybe it's a phantom or virtual scene but it will still work. 

Personally my life is fairly routine, so 5 days a week I just have a timer set in the RR2, to adjust my t-stat down while no one should be there. If you happen to have an off day, you might have to get up and turn on / up the t-stat. That being said we have pretty mild weather here, so we pretty much only using heating on winter evenings. 

Lutron Application Notes _(these say "public content", but I'm not sure if you need a myLutron to DL them)_ If the links don't work for you let me know or contact me and I'll email them to you.
There are some notes here for Honeywell Alarms, Alarm.com, basic contact closure integration, and on their integration's page they mention ELK, but as of yet know App. Notes specific to ELK on Lutrons site but it likely falls into basic fire alarm and security not below. 

FYI to all, if you have completed the RR2 software (free) training, it will answer a good many questions but also opens you up to their library of info they have. This is just the Integration Application notes, you'll find more on your myLutron page... 

Integration 

Public Content 


#441 - Using Lutron Systems To Control Smart Breakers English (.pdf)
#625 - Integrating Sonos with RadioRA 2 and HomeWorks QS English (.pdf)
Integrating Apple Homekit with RadioRa2 and Homeworks QS English (.pdf)
Integrating Google Assistant with RadioRa2 and Homeworks QS English (.pdf)
Integrating Infratech Heaters with Lutron Resi Systems English (.pdf)
Integrating LaunchPort Sleeve Buttons  English (.pdf)
Integrating RadioRA 2 with Converging Systems Interfaces English (.pdf)
Interfacing Amazon Alexa with RadioRA2 and HomeWorks QS English (.pdf)
Interfacing Lutron® RadioRA 2® Systems with Honeywell Vista-128BPT Security Systems English (.pdf)
Interfacing Lutron® RadioRA® 2 Systems with Honeywell VISTA Security Systems using the 4232CBM English (.pdf)
Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com English 
Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com - FAQ English 
Interfacing RadioRA® 2 with Security and Fire Alarm Systems English (.pdf)
RadioRA 2 Security Modes and Alarm.com Integration English (.pdf)
RadioRA 2 XML Extraction FAQ English (.pdf)


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> What you had originally asked I thought was to send the t-stat to a certain level/setting on the "away" function of your alarm. If you program this temperature to a scene button you can trigger the scene from your alarm via indigo or homeseer. You may be able to directly tie into the thermostat(s) but someone using indigo would have to chime in. Either way you should, with homeseer or indigo, have a way to trigger a scene. Maybe it's a phantom or virtual scene but it will still work.
> 
> Personally my life is fairly routine, so 5 days a week I just have a timer set in the RR2, to adjust my t-stat down while no one should be there. If you happen to have an off day, you might have to get up and turn on / up the t-stat. That being said we have pretty mild weather here, so we pretty much only using heating on winter evenings.
> 
> Lutron Application Notes _(these say "public content", but I'm not sure if you need a myLutron to DL them)_ If the links don't work for you let me know or contact me and I'll email them to you.
> There are some notes here for Honeywell Alarms, Alarm.com, basic contact closure integration, and on their integration's page they mention ELK, but as of yet know App. Notes specific to ELK on Lutrons site but it likely falls into basic fire alarm and security not below.
> 
> FYI to all, if you have completed the RR2 software (free) training, it will answer a good many questions but also opens you up to their library of info they have. This is just the Integration Application notes, you'll find more on your myLutron page...
> 
> Integration
> 
> Public Content
> 
> 
> #441 - Using Lutron Systems To Control Smart Breakers English (.pdf)
> #625 - Integrating Sonos with RadioRA 2 and HomeWorks QS English (.pdf)
> Integrating Apple Homekit with RadioRa2 and Homeworks QS English (.pdf)
> Integrating Google Assistant with RadioRa2 and Homeworks QS English (.pdf)
> Integrating Infratech Heaters with Lutron Resi Systems English (.pdf)
> Integrating LaunchPort Sleeve Buttons English (.pdf)
> Integrating RadioRA 2 with Converging Systems Interfaces English (.pdf)
> Interfacing Amazon Alexa with RadioRA2 and HomeWorks QS English (.pdf)
> Interfacing Lutron® RadioRA 2® Systems with Honeywell Vista-128BPT Security Systems English (.pdf)
> Interfacing Lutron® RadioRA® 2 Systems with Honeywell VISTA Security Systems using the 4232CBM English (.pdf)
> Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com English
> Interfacing RadioRA 2 & HomeWorks QS systems with Alarm.com - FAQ English
> Interfacing RadioRA® 2 with Security and Fire Alarm Systems English (.pdf)
> RadioRA 2 Security Modes and Alarm.com Integration English (.pdf)
> RadioRA 2 XML Extraction FAQ English (.pdf)


Excellent info!! Wow!

I've been reading through much of it and don't quite get the Security panel integration. Very cool - total nerd stuff. I love it!

Unless I'm reading this wrong, it appears that you have to have a RS-232 connection (null cable) to the Lutron Main Repeater for communication between them. Is this correct? This was shown in one of the Honeywell videos. Must you have your Lutron Main Repeater near the security panel so as to have RS-232 connection or is there another way to link the security panel to the Lutron Main Repeater (E.G. IP / ETHERNET)?

Thanks!


----------



## FlyingDiver

thebland said:


> Excellent info!! Wow!
> 
> I've been reading through much of it and don't quite get the Security panel integration. Very cool - total nerd stuff. I love it!
> 
> Unless I'm reading this wrong, it appears that you have to have a RS-232 connection (null cable) to the Lutron Main Repeater for communication between them. Is this correct? This was shown in one of the Honeywell videos. Must you have your Lutron Main Repeater near the security panel so as to have RS-232 connection or is there another way to link the security panel to the Lutron Main Repeater (E.G. IP / ETHERNET)?
> 
> Thanks!


That's one way to do it. Another is to use relay contacts via a Lutron Visor Controller. Another is to use some sort of Home Automation controller that can talk to the Lutron repeater over Ethernet.


----------



## FlyingDiver

thebland said:


> Good to know. I saw there was no Lutron thermostat support listed. True?
> 
> I say beta as the Lutron plug-in had some issues with toggles in phantom buttons on main repeater.
> 
> Thanks


There's been Lutron Thermostat support in the plugin for a long time. Since before I took over development, anyway. I have not seen any problem reports about them, but I don't know how many Indigo users also use the Lutron thermostats.

Where did you see the report on issues with toggles in phantom buttons on main repeater? How to use phantom buttons (or any keypad button) from a Home Automation system can be complicated. The phantom buttons are not necessarily able to toggle. It really depends on how the button is programmed on the Lutron side.


----------



## Neurorad

I've never used phantom buttons. Just include a keypad in the Design tab, program it, but just skip the activation?


----------



## thebland

FlyingDiver said:


> There's been Lutron Thermostat support in the plugin for a long time. Since before I took over development, anyway. I have not seen any problem reports about them, but I don't know how many Indigo users also use the Lutron thermostats.
> 
> Where did you see the report on issues with toggles in phantom buttons on main repeater? How to use phantom buttons (or any keypad button) from a Home Automation system can be complicated. The phantom buttons are not necessarily able to toggle. It really depends on how the button is programmed on the Lutron side.


Thanks for the response... 

So See-Touch and Touch Pro are OK?

I read it here [email protected] / Caseta Plug-in https://www.indigodomo.com/pluginstore/84/


----------



## rapamatic

Neurorad said:


> I've never used phantom buttons. Just include a keypad in the Design tab, program it, but just skip the activation?




That’s the way I’ve always done it. That way the keypads also show up in the iOS app, which is useful. 

Each repeater also has “phantom buttons” that can be programmed in much the same way, but they are invisible to the iOS app and only can be assessed via a third party app/API. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FlyingDiver

thebland said:


> Thanks for the response...
> 
> So See-Touch and Touch Pro are OK?
> 
> I read it here [email protected] / Caseta Plug-in https://www.indigodomo.com/pluginstore/84/


Oh, yeah, that. Like I said in my post above, you have to know how the button is actually programmed and deal with it properly. I'll have to look into handling toggle controls better, if the information to do so is actually available through the integration interface. Certainly it's not something any of the current users have complained about.

The plugin supports the LR-HVAC-1-WH and LR-HWLV-HVAC HVAC controllers. The latter is the Touch Pro. The See-Touch is just the remote interface for the LR-HVAC-1-WH and isn't directly accessible through the integration interface.


----------



## FlyingDiver

rapamatic said:


> That’s the way I’ve always done it. That way the keypads also show up in the iOS app, which is useful.
> 
> Each repeater also has “phantom buttons” that can be programmed in much the same way, but they are invisible to the iOS app and only can be assessed via a third party app/API.


And I've always done it the other way. I program shared scenes to Phantom Buttons, then use real (or virtual) keypads to activate those scenes. Not sure why I started doing it that way, but there it is.

Oh, one difference is that shared scenes are only available to users of the Inclusive software, which requires the Level 2 training.


----------



## schalliol

thebland said:


> Hey tell me, what alarms work directly with RR2? Have not picked a panel yet but am considering Elk and Vista.
> 
> I looked at Indigo (I'm a Mac user) but it looks a bit beta to me. Homeseer (at least according to their site doesn't seem to support Lutron T-Stats - just lighting. I'm new at this but that is Lutron T-Stats were not listed on their 'supported devices' page (though Honeywell WIFI TStats were).
> 
> Thanks!!


I started working with RR2 and wanted to get into a great modern alarm system and not get screwed on service. So, I created a small company to become a dealer for what I believe is the best out there today: 2GIG GC3. It works great with RR2 and can set off alarms by back end systems or VCRX.

If interested, I can offer equipment and service cheaper than anyone else since you’re on AVS and this isn’t my day job. I’d you’d like to discuss, email me at sales at schalliol dt com.


----------



## Neurorad

I'm considering Sonos integration, with RA2.

Briefly, can a Pico button be used to bring up a single preset? Considering a 4-button Pico (for 4 Sonos presets), ganged with an Audio keypad, to replace a 2-gang Nuvo audio keypad.

I don't carry my phone around at home, so exploring Sonos wall control.

I'll likely have a few wall-mount touchscreens in the most commonly used zones, but the other 8 zones need a great solution.


----------



## intake

I can't answer your question on the four button PICO, but I can say that you can make a keypad button (virtual, hybrid, etc) do the following actions:

Play or Pause Rooms
Rooms to Play (selectable room(s) with preset volume)
Rooms to Pause (selectable room(s))
SONOS Favorite to Play (can preset favorite)​
Toggle Play / Pause (selectable room(s))
Skip Next (selectable room(s))
Cycle SONOS Favorite (selectable room(s))

You get the added bonus of being able to control a lighting or switch load in conjunction of you programmed button press, so the bathroom GOOD MORNING keypad would turn on the lights, set and play the SONOS zone to my local news radio preset at a low volume. 

I don't see these options for a standard five button PICO.


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> I'm considering Sonos integration, with RA2.
> 
> Briefly, can a Pico button be used to bring up a single preset? Considering a 4-button Pico (for 4 Sonos presets), ganged with an Audio keypad, to replace a 2-gang Nuvo audio keypad.
> 
> I don't carry my phone around at home, so exploring Sonos wall control.
> 
> I'll likely have a few wall-mount touchscreens in the most commonly used zones, but the other 8 zones need a great solution.


I haven't done this personally yet, but more info on application note 625

Says: 
"Prior to integrating the Lutron and Sonos systems, it is important to properly configure the Sonos system. The
Sonos system configuration is completed using the Sonos mobile app. Once the initial Sonos setup is complete,
it is important to create Sonos Favorites. This is one of the key features of integration between the two systems.
It allows control of favorites from a Pico Remote Control for Audio or adding a Sonos Favorite to a scene (e.g.
Morning). Download the Sonos mobile app from the app store to begin configuration of the Sonos components."

Looks like additionally a regular Keypad button can be configured to:
"Cycle Sonos Favorite – advances to the next Sonos Favorite (configured in the Sonos app) ; if the room is
currently grouped with other rooms, all rooms will follow"

From the FAQ on that document:


"*What version of the Lutron Connect App is required for use with the Sonos system?*
Lutron Connect App version 2.0 or later is required for integration with the Sonos system.
*What are the benefits of integrating Lutron Connect with a Sonos system?*
There are several benefits when integrating a RadioRA 2 or HomeWorks QS system, with the Lutron Connect app, with a Sonos system. Sonos Rooms can be added to any single action scene button on an in-wall, tabletop keypad, or Lutron Connect app keypad. For example, music could be layered in with the lights, shades, and temperature control of the Morning scene, setting the perfect atmosphere for waking up in the morning and getting ready for the day. Sonos Rooms could also be included into the “Arriving / Leaving home” feature to automatically start playing music upon your arrival home while pausing them when you leave. Also, you can use the new Pico Remote Control for Audio 1 to control your Sonos Rooms from anywhere in your home (e.g. from the wall, nightstand, coffee table).
*What can I do with a Pico Remote Control for Audio(1) and a Sonos system?
*The Pico Remote Control for Audio allows you to play / pause your Sonos Rooms, raise or lower the volume, skip tracks and change between your Sonos Favorites.
*What can I do with scenes and a Sonos system? 
*You can create manual scenes that control lights, shades, and sound together (e.g. Dinner scene, Relax scene). Additionally, if you’re using the Arriving / Leaving Home feature you can automatically start playing your Sonos Rooms before you arrive home and automatically pause all your Sonos Rooms when you leave.
*What Sonos products work with RadioRA 2 and HomeWorks QS systems? 
*All Sonos components are compatible with RadioRA 2 and HomeWorks QS systems, including the PLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, PLAYBAR, SUB, CONNECT, and CONNECT:AMP components."
*(1) App will only be able to program a Pico Remote Control for Audio if there is no other load type (non-Sonos) or devices programmed to it (e.g. lights, shades, fans, CCOs, etc)


----------



## Neurorad

Yes, I did see that Application Note, thanks, Paul.

It wasn't clear if each of 4 buttons on a Pico could be set for a separate Sonos preset. Still not clear, if someone could chime in. I assume it would be, to allow music addition to a scene.

$40 Pico vs $300 keypad, for Sonos presets. Yes, the keypad would work, but looking for more affordable option. 

I think I need to invest in a Sonos connect:amp for testing, before making any decisions.


----------



## jerfletcher

I have a Sonos play one in my bedroom and use the Lutron audio pico on my night stand to pause/play , volume up, volume down, Sonos favorites cycle (set up my favorites in the Sonos app). 

It has worked flawlessly . I added the pico in the essentials software and then programed the pico in the Lutron connect app (not positive the is only way, but what I did). 

I also programmed my hybrid keypad in the bedroom entrance on a couple free buttons to play/pause and cycle favorites.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Neurorad

jerfletcher said:


> I have a Sonos play one in my bedroom and use the Lutron audio pico on my night stand to pause/play , volume up, volume down, Sonos favorites cycle (set up my favorites in the Sonos app).
> 
> It has worked flawlessly . I added the pico in the essentials software and then programed the pico in the Lutron connect app (not positive the is only way, but what I did).
> 
> I also programmed my hybrid keypad in the bedroom entrance on a couple free buttons to play/pause and cycle favorites.


Thanks, jerfletcher. Cycling through presets is good - but preset from a single Pico button is what I would like to do.

I'm also considering layering a CasaTunes server on the Nuvo, hopefully allowing use of my existing Nuvo keypads, with metadata.


----------



## spiwrx

Neurorad said:


> .....*$300 keypad*, for Sonos presets. Yes, the keypad would work, but looking for more affordable option.
> 
> I think I need to invest in a Sonos connect:amp for testing, before making any decisions.


Not sure if this is a reputable company, I cannot touch this price... 
https://www.discounthomeautomation....MIs6-FupO42gIVWLXACh0__AaCEAQYASABEgJabfD_BwE


----------



## Neurorad

I currently have 11 Nuvo 2-gang keypads, like on the right:









Are you suggesting the 1-gang Nuvo audio keypad paired with a Pico Sonos audio keypad? Hmm, hadn't thought of that. Thanks, Paul.


----------



## jerfletcher

Neurorad said:


> Thanks, jerfletcher. Cycling through presets is good - but preset from a single Pico button is what I would like to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also considering layering a CasaTunes server on the Nuvo, hopefully allowing use of my existing Nuvo keypads, with metadata.




So I tested the play/pause Sonos event, and you can choose which room to play or pause and set the favorite with a volume setting. For example, I have XMU Sirius channel 35 in my favorites, so I assigned it to a button on my 4 button pico. It worked as expected for that channel. On Apple Music, it shuffled on selection.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spiwrx

*HomeSeer Sale*

Looks like HomeSeer is having a software sale again. I still have mine (doing minimal stuff) up on my Raspberry Pi 3 and working flawlessly since I put it in. I'm recommending it to more & more people if you have need for it. 

If you don't know what HomeSeer is, in a nut shell it's a device or software running on your network making possible for some of you different systems in your home to talk to each other or "trigger" I think is their term. If you have a PC Windows, Linux or PI that's always on, you can use it as software, otherwise they have their hardware versions as well. It will also allow for simple conditional statements as well, and this is something we get asked for more often. One thing that happens quite frequently is the need to use a RR2 Dimmer as a keypad as well. That's how I'm using it in my own home. If I turn on this dimmer, I also want that dimmer to come on. By the same token you could combine z-wave devices with RR2. Or just about anything else that communicates over your network, and makes it simple enough for most of us to understand and configure. The software is one price, and I think it comes with Z-wave but for RR2 you have to buy a "Plug-In" (license) and you may have to buy other plug-ins for some of your other stuff as well. I could go on and on, but if you have a need to make a conditional, or want RR2 to talk to a Z-Wave outlet Lutron doesn't make (yet, rumors say his is coming). Than this may be for you. 

Some of our other users here are using an product called "Indigo" intended for MAC. but I think similar in what it can do.


----------



## spiwrx

Not sure if any of you saw this in your email but if you have a first generation Connect Bridge, hopefully it's up on your network and in good order...

~~~Copied from email sent out by Lutron~~~

To Lutron Valued Customers:

As part of Lutron’s commitment to provide customers with world class products and a best in class service experience, we strive to maintain backwards compatibility whenever possible. However, some cases require firmware changes that cannot be applied to early versions of products.

In order to receive a necessary firmware update required for future operation, all first-generation Lutron Connect Bridges (model # CONNECT-BDG-1) must be connected to the internet prior to May 25th, 2018. Lutron Connect Bridges that do not receive this firmware update prior to May 25, 2018, will no longer work.

Please check your inventory immediately and remove any affected devices from your sellable stock. To take care of our mutual customers, Lutron is requesting that all first generation Connect Bridges (CONNECT-BDG-1) in your inventory are returned to Lutron in exchange for a free replacement with the current second generation of the Connect Bridge (model #: CONNECT-*BDG2*-1), which now supports Apple HomeKit.

Please note that the second generation of the Connect Bridge which supports Apple HomeKit (model #: CONNECT-*BDG2*-1) is not affected and *should not be returned*.

To return any affected product in your inventory, or if you’d like additional information, please contact your local Lutron Representative or regional Lutron Customer Service Team:

Lutron 

North America
1.888.588.7661


----------



## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> Looks like HomeSeer is having a software sale again. I still have mine (doing minimal stuff) up on my Raspberry Pi 3 and working flawlessly since I put it in. I'm recommending it to more & more people if you have need for it.
> 
> 
> The software is one price, and I think it comes with Z-wave but for RR2 you have to buy a "Plug-In" (license) and you may have to buy other plug-ins for some of your other stuff as well. .



Paul--which HomeSeer plug-in are you using for RR2? There seems to be more than one.


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> Not sure if any of you saw this in your email but if you have a first generation Connect Bridge, hopefully it's up on your network and in good order...


This is awesome. I really wish they did this from the beginning when we asked for this. I guess I have to see if I can find these v1.


----------



## freeoscar

schalliol said:


> This is awesome. I really wish they did this from the beginning when we asked for this. I guess I have to see if I can find these v1.


What does this firmware update do? Does it change the functionality of the original connect bridge?


----------



## spiwrx

freeoscar said:


> What does this firmware update do? Does it change the functionality of the original connect bridge?


I'm assuming it adds Homekit based on the document, but I'm just guessing.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> Paul--which HomeSeer plug-in are you using for RR2? There seems to be more than one.


I'm using the "Lutron RadioRA2"

Looks like they have a plug-in for original Radio Ra (aka, Radio Ra 1 or Radio Ra classic) ["BLRadioRA"]
The other option is for Radio QS, which is some of the Shades, Grafik Eye, some sensors, etc... (More of a room and/or commercial application, not so much a residential "system")["Lutron RadioQS"]

For full features and applications you should check with HomeSeer on others, as I'm not familiar with them. I'm only using the "Lutron RadioRa2" Plug-in and so far does all I need.


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> I'm assuming it adds Homekit based on the document, but I'm just guessing.


It's confusing because it looks like you can do a hardware swap. If it could be done in software, there was no reason to do a v2. They made the point that it was impossible to add HK without a hardware change to v1.


----------



## scooter_29

One of the new 8ANS switches in my house won’t allow itself to be added to the Select App. I tried resetting the switch but it never fast flashes the led when I triple click and hold. Is it a bum switch?


----------



## freeoscar

schalliol said:


> It's confusing because it looks like you can do a hardware swap. If it could be done in software, there was no reason to do a v2. They made the point that it was impossible to add HK without a hardware change to v1.


When the HK compatible connect bridge came out you needed special hardware for HK authentication. Since that time Apple has changed their policy and made it so that authentication can be software based. So it could be that this is adding HK functionality to V1. And it looks like the hardware swap is just for unopened equipment which is sitting in dealer inventory, and not that homeowners who have a V1 in use can swap it out for V2. At least that is how I read it.


----------



## Neurorad

scooter_29 said:


> One of the new 8ANS switches in my house won’t allow itself to be added to the Select App. I tried resetting the switch but it never fast flashes the led when I triple click and hold. Is it a bum switch?


Incorrect process for a factory reset.

Triple tap, and hold. Flashes, then 3 MORE TAPS.

I had to look this up a few weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/wJ47TZs5CuU?t=10s


----------



## socalsharky

*Whole House Fan Automation*

I have 3 whole house fans that I would like to automate. I will eventually be using a thermostat and HomeSeer3 to turn the fans off and on as needed.

The fans are currently controlled with a single-gang triple switch (for on-off control of each individual fan) wired in series with a Lutron push button timer switch. The timer switch has buttons for 2,4,8,12 hours.


I would like to use either Zwave or RadioRA2 to control the fans. So far I can't find anything smart like the single gang triple switch that I am using now. I thought of just using smart plugs up in the attic, but I still want local control for my wife and kids. I would also rather not use a 4-gang box for all of the switches that would be required if I go with full size devices. I guess the easy way to do it would be to replace the timer switch with a Radio RA2 switch. I am new to HomeSeer, but I assume that there is a way to use single or multiple button presses to mimic the current functionality of the timer switch. I would lose the ability to see the time remaining on the countdown timer, which is displayed with LEDs on the current switch.


Has anyone done this? Which would be the correct RA2 switch (3 fans, single speed)?

As a side note, it sure would be nice if Lutron made a timer switch for the RA2 system.


----------



## socalsharky

*Main Repeater Dropping Connection to Laptop*

I am in the process of programming my RA2 system. I am using the latest Essentials software. The repeater is set up with a static IP. I typically have to reboot the repeater in order for the software to see it, even though it is visible as a connection to the router, and I can access it directly at its IP address. Once I get it to show in the software, I have only a few minutes to activate devices before it drops out again. I've seen a few postings on-line of people having trouble with wi-fi connections, but using a laptop with a wi-fi connection seems to be the only practical way of activating all these devices.

Is there a setup that will be more reliable in accessing the main repeater?


P.S. I just transferred my configuration file to my desktop and everything works fine. Both the desktop and laptop have the same version of windows, same version of Essentials, and both have dynamic IP addresses on the same network. So it is something with the laptop.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> I am in the process of programming my RA2 system. I am using the latest Essentials software. The repeater is set up with a static IP. I typically have to reboot the repeater in order for the software to see it, even though it is visible as a connection to the router, and I can access it directly at its IP address. Once I get it to show in the software, I have only a few minutes to activate devices before it drops out again. I've seen a few postings on-line of people having trouble with wi-fi connections, but using a laptop with a wi-fi connection seems to be the only practical way of activating all these devices.
> 
> Is there a setup that will be more reliable in accessing the main repeater?
> 
> 
> P.S. I just transferred my configuration file to my desktop and everything works fine. Both the desktop and laptop have the same version of windows, same version of Essentials, and both have dynamic IP addresses on the same network. So it is something with the laptop.





The computer / permissions / network settings, etc.. All can play into that. We program several houses and some are a breeze and other using the same laptop struggle. Lutron will tell you right off tha bat to shut down your firewall. But I run it both ways and have never had that be the problem. 

If you have a myLutron Account don't forget to poke around in there. There are some great resources in the Technical Bulletin's and Application Notes. This is an older one, I know you said yuour's was fixed but for the benefit or interest of others:
http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtectedDocumentLibrary/HWQS_and_RA_2_Network_Speed_Tech_Bulletin.pdf


I had a similar issue on a home with modest WiFi use. Lutron took my support file and somehow said there was to much traffic on their WiFi. This was an older Couple (2 people), that barely could use their iPhone to make a call. If they had much on their WiFi it was from their housekeeper. Somehow after a few transfers and updates (over months) it corrected itself. Let me say that the system always worked fine, only issues were network related during activation and transfer.


----------



## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> I'm using the "Lutron RadioRA2"
> 
> Looks like they have a plug-in for original Radio Ra (aka, Radio Ra 1 or Radio Ra classic) ["BLRadioRA"]
> The other option is for Radio QS, which is some of the Shades, Grafik Eye, some sensors, etc... (More of a room and/or commercial application, not so much a residential "system")["Lutron RadioQS"]
> 
> For full features and applications you should check with HomeSeer on others, as I'm not familiar with them. I'm only using the "Lutron RadioRa2" Plug-in and so far does all I need.



Paul--I have set up Homeseer with the RAdioRa2 plug-in. I'm trying to create an event where pushing a dimmer will turn on a light to a predetermined level, based on time of day. For instance:


If dimmer is activated
And If the time is between 9pm and 6am
Then turn on lights at 30%


Have you tried setting up any thing like this? I have tried several different events and can't get this one to trigger properly.


Also, do I need to do anything inside the Essentials software to allow HS3 to control the system? For this light in particular, I programmed RA2 to turn the light on to its previously set level. I'm wondering if the two systems are fighting each other for control.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> Paul--I have set up Homeseer with the RAdioRa2 plug-in. I'm trying to create an event where pushing a dimmer will turn on a light to a predetermined level, based on time of day. For instance:
> 
> 
> If dimmer is activated
> And If the time is between 9pm and 6am
> Then turn on lights at 30%
> 
> 
> Have you tried setting up any thing like this? I have tried several different events and can't get this one to trigger properly.
> 
> 
> Also, do I need to do anything inside the Essentials software to allow HS3 to control the system? For this light in particular, I programmed RA2 to turn the light on to its previously set level. I'm wondering if the two systems are fighting each other for control.





I haven't done this exactly, but what I am assuming is this:
Turning the dimmer on will go to it's last level, by default I think the fade on is 2 seconds
In that time, if the trigger is properly configured, it will instantly send the command to the dimmer to go to 30%. If the dimmer hasn't expired the fade on time yet, it will likely reject or not receive the command from HomeSeer. Again this is my assumption. You can try reducing the fade time in RR2 and/or a delay in HS. 


I'll play with that when I get home, but I don't think this will be seemless unless it was activated from a button on a keypad or pico, in other words it will first have to complete the last level, (delay) then send it to 30%. 

Again, I'm just assuming this, I haven't tried this sequence of events.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> .....Also, do I need to do anything inside the Essentials software to allow HS3 to control the system? For this light in particular, I programmed RA2 to turn the light on to its previously set level. I'm wondering if the two systems are fighting each other for control.



You shouldn't have to. HS (HomeSeer) is just sending Telnet commands over the network. Assuming you have it set up correctly it should just work. The RR2 system will look for credentials and the command string. If all that was set up properly in HS, it will work.


----------



## amattas

So my experience is to make your target action a button in Radio RA2 versus sending the event to individual devices if you can too prevent pop-corning. Here's an example of a rule that I just tested and works.


----------



## socalsharky

amattas said:


> So my experience is to make your target action a button in Radio RA2 versus sending the event to individual devices if you can too prevent pop-corning. Here's an example of a rule that I just tested and works.


Thanks for the input. How did you define "Press" in RadioRA2? Does this count as a device against the 100 device limit?


----------



## amattas

You can use phantom buttons on your main repeater, or unused buttons on existing keypads. Neither of these should eat up extra devices.


----------



## Ziba Ji

Why the heck I can not change brightness on my porch lights in automated scenes?


----------



## socalsharky

Ziba Ji said:


> Why the heck I can not change brightness on my porch lights in automated scenes?



What do you mean by automated scenes? Post a screenshot of how you have it set up.


----------



## Ziba Ji

socalsharky said:


> What do you mean by automated scenes? Post a screenshot of how you have it set up.


orig programming and scene set up was done by magnolia hifi, and they are not responsive at all even though they sold maintenance program to us


----------



## spiwrx

Ziba Ji said:


> Why the heck I can not change brightness on my porch lights in automated scenes?


Unless they locked you out of adjustments, you can adjust lights and levels on your APP. Just go into your button(scene) and edit it. 
_This is done from the "devices" section of the Connect App, not the scenes section. _



From the (connect)APP: _(Home Control + APP looks different, but is similar if not the same to edit, I just don't have it anymore to explain in detail)_


Select Devices
Find the Keypad that has the Scene/Button you want to change
Hit "Edit" at the bottom of the APP keypad and to the right of each button a right arrow icon ">" will appear on each button
 Touch the arrow icon only on the button you want to edit and you will get the details of whats on that button
From the "Add Lights" page Select Lights to add or remove lights and check or uncheck them
Next to checked lights you'll fins another ">" arrow icon, select this to adjust the level of each light.
Make sure you hit save to save your changes when you are done.
Keep in mind scenes can be tricky, you may want to turn some light on and some lights off to create the appropriate scene. Example, my living room "Movie" scene shuts off most of my Living room lights and dims others in the room, but I have an open view into my kitchen from there. It's not entirely obvious to some that you may want to turn off or lower the lights in other rooms to make the movie scene when you are only focused on the immediate rooms lights. so I also have my exterior porch light and kitchen lights shut off from my Movie Scene. This might not be the best example, but I hope you get my meaning. With a client the other day creating a dining scene and they want 3 lights at 3 different levels on on a scene, but while we are doing it, they are the only lights on in the room. We are only focused on getting these levels exactly where they want them. Easy enough, but there are 2 other circuits in the room that are off while we're setting levels. When we test the scene it sets the lights perfectly but being focused on the 3 lights and their levels we forget that we want those other 2 off, because they are off while we're discussing and setting the 3 primary lights. Some additional testing and playing with other scenes turn on the 2 secondary lights. Then when we hit the 3 light button, the 2 stay where they were and now we have all 5 lights on.. The scene needed to set the 3 lights on at various levels but also needed the 2 lights off. The buttons are literal, especially scenes. They only do exactly what you program them to do. Sometimes it's hard to visualize that until you put it to use... 




Not sure what you mean by automated? If you mean it's on a timeclock (Schedule)? or perhaps set by motion, or maybe you just mean a regular scene. I guess a scene can be automated in a sense that it automatically takes lights to the desired states and levels.


----------



## spiwrx

spiwrx said:


> Unless they locked you out of adjustments, you can adjust lights and levels on your APP. Just go into your button(scene) and edit it.
> _This is done from the "devices" section of the Connect App, not the scenes section. _
> 
> 
> 
> From the (connect)APP: _(Home Control + APP looks different, but is similar if not the same to edit, I just don't have it anymore to explain in detail)_
> 
> 
> Select Devices
> Find the Keypad that has the Scene/Button you want to change
> Hit "Edit" at the bottom of the APP keypad and to the right of each button a right arrow icon ">" will appear on each button
> Touch the arrow icon only on the button you want to edit and you will get the details of whats on that button
> From the "Add Lights" page Select Lights to add or remove lights and check or uncheck them
> Next to checked lights you'll fins another ">" arrow icon, select this to adjust the level of each light.
> Make sure you hit save to save your changes when you are done.
> Keep in mind scenes can be tricky, you may want to turn some light on and some lights off to create the appropriate scene. Example, my living room "Movie" scene shuts off most of my Living room lights and dims others in the room, but I have an open view into my kitchen from there. It's not entirely obvious to some that you may want to turn off or lower the lights in other rooms to make the movie scene when you are only focused on the immediate rooms lights. so I also have my exterior porch light and kitchen lights shut off from my Movie Scene. This might not be the best example, but I hope you get my meaning. With a client the other day creating a dining scene and they want 3 lights at 3 different levels on on a scene, but while we are doing it, they are the only lights on in the room. We are only focused on getting these levels exactly where they want them. Easy enough, but there are 2 other circuits in the room that are off while we're setting levels. When we test the scene it sets the lights perfectly but being focused on the 3 lights and their levels we forget that we want those other 2 off, because they are off while we're discussing and setting the 3 primary lights. Some additional testing and playing with other scenes turn on the 2 secondary lights. Then when we hit the 3 light button, the 2 stay where they were and now we have all 5 lights on.. The scene needed to set the 3 lights on at various levels but also needed the 2 lights off. The buttons are literal, especially scenes. They only do exactly what you program them to do. Sometimes it's hard to visualize that until you put it to use...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by automated? If you mean it's on a timeclock (Schedule)? or perhaps set by motion, or maybe you just mean a regular scene. I guess a scene can be automated in a sense that it automatically takes lights to the desired states and levels.


Let me add you can lock out edits from the APP in the software. If this is done it can only be reversed there as well. 



Also, If "shared" scenes were used, you cannot add or remove lights from the edit section of the APP, you can only adjust levels. 



Additionally, if you have the same button on multiple keypads and it is NOT shared you have to remember to make those same changes on all of the other keypads with that button. 



For people just starting out programming "shared" scenes are great like "All On" & "All Off". From a programming standpoint it means making changes to one automatically changes all keypads with the same shared button(s).
The downside is that from the APP you cannot add/remove lights. Which may or may not be important. 



Some people use shared buttons to speed up the programming, but you can also copy & paste a single button or an entire keypad (of like kind). Simply right click and copy / paste on the button in questions. Or for a full keypad right click on the wall plate around the buttons. Doing this will copy all your work and paste it to a new button, but they are not shared. If you later make adjustments, it only effects the keypad you're working on.


----------



## wkearney99

Paul knows this stuff well, he's a tremendously helpful resource and supplier.

"Scene" is a pretty overloaded term with Lutron stuff. There's several ways a grouping of things gets called a "scene".

One type of scene is a specific group of devices all being set to a specific value. The values can be different for any/all of the devices in such a scene. That is, you can have a scene that brings a number of lights up to a specific level, while also dropping some other lights to different levels, or even off. And each with their own fade-up and delay timing. This can be very slick for doing things like lighting up a path of lights, while dropping some others off. Turn on the stairway leading up, but also turn off a bunch of other stuff and maybe delay a few of them.

There's more, like monitoring and shared scenes. It make sense once you understand Lutron's way of doing things. Getting there is the challenge.

So let's step back and ask how many devices do you have installed? 

If it's under 100 and you're prepared to do some learning there's Windows software available that'll let you re-program the system entirely. That may be your best plan if you can't get Magnolia to provide you with the configuration file used to program your setup. If you have more than 100 devices it requires attending paid training or using another contractor that has done so.


----------



## svtdougie

Can anyone confirm if this relay will work for fireplace integration with RadioRa2? (https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-JQX-1...+Pin+2NO+2NC+Power+Relay+w+PTF08A+Base+Socket)

This device was posted a few pages back. i can use a visor control however, visor controls have to be used with a keypad and keypads can not come over on the lutron connect app for Siri control. So the only way I can see to get Siri to control the fireplace is to use a standard 8ANS switch with a relay. Though I just want to make sure this relay will work as I have not used one before.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Ziba Ji

Thanks guys, just changed brightness on porch, going adjusting forever?


----------



## socalsharky

*Add lights to an Alexa Alarm?*

I know that Alexa can control Radio RA2 lighting. I'm wondering if it is possible for Alexa to add lighting control to the alarm skill that is already present within Alexa. My daughter has a difficult time waking up in the morning--an audio alarm is typcially not enough. I'm hoping that I can use Alexa to turn on her room lights in conjunction with the alarm. I also have the Homeseer HS3 controller operating at my house, with the Radio [email protected] plugin, so perhaps there is an avenue there. spiwrx and wkearney99, you are using HS3, right? Do you know if this type of control is possible?


----------



## wkearney99

Good question, I don't know. So I asked it over on the HS forums.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> I know that Alexa can control Radio RA2 lighting. I'm wondering if it is possible for Alexa to add lighting control to the alarm skill that is already present within Alexa. My daughter has a difficult time waking up in the morning--an audio alarm is typcially not enough. I'm hoping that I can use Alexa to turn on her room lights in conjunction with the alarm. I also have the Homeseer HS3 controller operating at my house, with the Radio [email protected] plugin, so perhaps there is an avenue there. spiwrx and wkearney99, you are using HS3, right? Do you know if this type of control is possible?



Have you seen "Routines" in the Alexa app. I think it might do it. If you give the routine a unique name, I wonder if you can tell Alexa to run that routine at 7am. 
"Routines" are kind of like macros. I just started playing with them. I have 5 arcade games in my garage with Alexa controlled plugs, and I only want to turn on the ones I want to play by there name directly controlling their plug-in (non-RR2) Alexa controlled outlets. But when I shut them down I run "arcade" routine that shuts all of them off. Not matter if they are already off. I will ask Alexa tonight to run it at a certain time to verify. I found this article that briefly explains "Routines" I'm not endorsing the site or it's accuracy, just the first thing I googled:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/what-is-amazon-alexa-routines/



If this is a consistent daily routine, you could just do a schedule in RR2. I haven't tried timing events in HS, but I think it would be similar to schedules in RR2. 

I'm assuming you are using Alexa as the alarm clock.


----------



## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> I will ask Alexa tonight to run it at a certain time to verify. I found this article that briefly explains "Routines" I'm not endorsing the site or it's accuracy, just the first thing I googled:
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/home/what-is-amazon-alexa-routines/


Thanks Paul. Please let me know if this works.


----------



## socalsharky

*Lutron Occupancy/Vacancy Sensors*

I just installed Lutron Radio RA2 occupancy/vacancy sensors in a couple of bedrooms. However, I can't figure out how to program them in the Essentials software. Can anybody point me to a quick guide or tutorial?


Thanks!


----------



## FlyingDiver

I have Inclusive, but I think it's the same.

On the Program tab, in the top left corner is a pop-up control labeled "Program". It defaults to "Keypads". Change that to "Occupancy". Then you program each motion sensor like it was a button on a keypad.


----------



## socalsharky

FlyingDiver said:


> I have Inclusive, but I think it's the same.
> 
> On the Program tab, in the top left corner is a pop-up control labeled "Program". It defaults to "Keypads". Change that to "Occupancy". Then you program each motion sensor like it was a button on a keypad.



Here is what I see in the software:










So do it set the fade time as the delay between the point at which motion is not detected until the lights go off?


----------



## schalliol

No. That’s determined by the sensors themselves. Check the back of them.


----------



## FlyingDiver

socalsharky said:


> So do it set the fade time as the delay between the point at which motion is not detected until the lights go off?


Fade time is how long it takes the lights to ramp up to the programmed level.

As already posted, when the sensor times out it sends the "off" command which turns the programed loads off.


----------



## socalsharky

schalliol said:


> No. That’s determined by the sensors themselves. Check the back of them.



OK. So the only way to set the delay time is on the sensor itself? I saw the directions for doing so in the install manual, but I figured it could also be done (to a more precise degree) in the software. :frown:


----------



## schalliol

You have 3 main options on the sensors as I recall, and they just send effectively a keypad press to the system when it's unoccupied. It should work just fine and the logic seems to work pretty well, but to each their own.


----------



## socalsharky

*Lutron Occupancy/Vacancy Sensors*

Thanks for all the responses. I've got all my occupancy/vacancy sensors working pretty well, but there is one function that I don't understand:


I have disabled the auto-on function on the sensors, since I want them to function only as vacancy sensors, and turn of the lights after the programmed delay has elapsed. However, after the sensor detects the vacancy and turns off the lights, when I re-enter the room, the lights go back on. When I turn off the lights using the switch, they do not turn back on upon re-entering the room. Is this the correct functionality? I don't see a description of this behavior in the manual. I do not want the sensors to turn on the lights at all.


Also, in a Rdio RA2 configuration, does the auto-on setting on the sensor do anything? Or is the occupancy behavior controlled entirely through the software?



Thanks.


----------



## schalliol

That’s a good question I don’t know the answer to, but the software allows you to set it as an occupancy or vacancy only sensor. I would think that the behavile you stated shouldn’t happen if set in software as vacancy only.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> Thanks for all the responses. I've got all my occupancy/vacancy sensors working pretty well, but there is one function that I don't understand:
> 
> I have disabled the auto-on function on the sensors, since I want them to function only as vacancy sensors, and turn of the lights after the programmed delay has elapsed. However, after the sensor detects the vacancy and turns off the lights, when I re-enter the room, the lights go back on. When I turn off the lights using the switch, they do not turn back on upon re-entering the room. Is this the correct functionality? I don't see a description of this behavior in the manual. I do not want the sensors to turn on the lights at all.
> 
> Also, in a Rdio RA2 configuration, does the auto-on setting on the sensor do anything? Or is the occupancy behavior controlled entirely through the software?
> 
> Thanks.





Sorry, I've been slammed lately and not been monitoring this thread. 



Even in the Vacancy mode, if you re-enter the detection zone quickly after time-out, there is a secondary delay to prevent false positive. I think it's maybe 15 or 30 seconds, in that short time(seconds) it works as occupancy (full-auto). But if you leave the room for a good minute or 2 it should work as expected. I have this in a guest bath with a shower that rarely gets used, but works perfect. If taking a long shower the lights will shut off and you may have to open the shower door, but a wave of the hand quickly will get your lights back. 



If you are using their sensors in a "system" like Radio Ra 2 all the programming is via the software. I'm not really clear on what you are describing as "does the auto-on setting on the sensor do anything"? 
The behavior or mode of the sensor is either Occupancy or Vacancy and set up in the software.


----------



## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> Sorry, I've been slammed lately and not been monitoring this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Even in the Vacancy mode, if you re-enter the detection zone quickly after time-out, there is a secondary delay to prevent false positive. I think it's maybe 15 or 30 seconds, in that short time(seconds) it works as occupancy (full-auto). But if you leave the room for a good minute or 2 it should work as expected. I have this in a guest bath with a shower that rarely gets used, but works perfect. If taking a long shower the lights will shut off and you may have to open the shower door, but a wave of the hand quickly will get your lights back.
> 
> 
> 
> If you are using their sensors in a "system" like Radio Ra 2 all the programming is via the software. I'm not really clear on what you are describing as "does the auto-on setting on the sensor do anything"?
> The behavior or mode of the sensor is either Occupancy or Vacancy and set up in the software.



Thanks Paul. I was referring to the settings on the sensor itself. You can specify the behavior of the sensor upon initial entry. I'm wondering if this has any effect when it is part of an RA2 system.


https://i.imgur.com/V3m0xP3.jpg


----------



## rapamatic

Those settings still hold as part of a RR2 system, and that’s the only way to set the timeouts, sensitivity, etc. RR2 sees the motion sensors as basically just dumb picos that send “occupied” and “vacant” messages. RR2 programming can determine how the system responds to those messages, but that’s it. The motion sensors are only a 1 way device. You can’t program or adjust the sensors from the RR2 software. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## talguy

Hi am. I'm planning to wire my range hood's lights into my lutron system (RA2 Select) and was wondering if there is a wireless relay module that can communicate with my controller that is also able to take the inputs from an external local control switch. This switch should be able to turn the lights on if I press it and still provide status back to my lutron controller so that other automation work properly. Does anyone know of a relay module that will work?


----------



## wkearney99

talguy said:


> Hi am. I'm planning to wire my range hood's lights into my lutron system (RA2 Select) and was wondering if there is a wireless relay module that can communicate with my controller that is also able to take the inputs from an external local control switch. This switch should be able to turn the lights on if I press it and still provide status back to my lutron controller so that other automation work properly. Does anyone know of a relay module that will work?


Well, you could use a VCRX module and a powpack, but it'd be rather expensive overkill.


----------



## socalsharky

talguy said:


> Hi am. I'm planning to wire my range hood's lights into my lutron system (RA2 Select) and was wondering if there is a wireless relay module that can communicate with my controller that is also able to take the inputs from an external local control switch. This switch should be able to turn the lights on if I press it and still provide status back to my lutron controller so that other automation work properly. Does anyone know of a relay module that will work?





wkearney99 said:


> Well, you could use a VCRX module and a powpack, but it'd be rather expensive overkill.



Doesn't Radio RA2 Inclusive have some modules that could accomplish this?


----------



## socalsharky

socalsharky said:


> I have 3 whole house fans that I would like to automate. I will eventually be using a thermostat and HomeSeer3 to turn the fans off and on as needed.
> 
> The fans are currently controlled with a single-gang triple switch (for on-off control of each individual fan) wired in series with a Lutron push button timer switch. The timer switch has buttons for 2,4,8,12 hours.
> 
> 
> I would like to use either Zwave or RadioRA2 to control the fans. So far I can't find anything smart like the single gang triple switch that I am using now. I thought of just using smart plugs up in the attic, but I still want local control for my wife and kids. I would also rather not use a 4-gang box for all of the switches that would be required if I go with full size devices. I guess the easy way to do it would be to replace the timer switch with a Radio RA2 switch. I am new to HomeSeer, but I assume that there is a way to use single or multiple button presses to mimic the current functionality of the timer switch. I would lose the ability to see the time remaining on the countdown timer, which is displayed with LEDs on the current switch.
> 
> 
> Has anyone done this? Which would be the correct RA2 switch (3 fans, single speed)?
> 
> As a side note, it sure would be nice if Lutron made a timer switch for the RA2 system.



I am still trying to come up with a way to handle this situation. Would it be possible to install (3) 8ANS switches up in the attic (one for each fan) and then use a 4 button pico mounted on the wall in the house to control them? I would use one pico button for each switch, and the 4th button as an "all off" scene. Also thinking I could use the roll back feature of RA2 to invoke some timing. would that still work even though the fans are being turned on indirectly by the pico buttons?


----------



## wkearney99

socalsharky said:


> Doesn't Radio RA2 Inclusive have some modules that could accomplish this?


Not that I recall. The VCRX is the only one that has IO channels.


----------



## socalsharky

wkearney99 said:


> Not that I recall. The VCRX is the only one that has IO channels.



What about the 
*LMJ-16R-DV-B*

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/041424.pdf


----------



## wkearney99

socalsharky said:


> I am still trying to come up with a way to handle this situation. Would it be possible to install (3) 8ANS switches up in the attic (one for each fan) and then use a 4 button pico mounted on the wall in the house to control them? I would use one pico button for each switch, and the 4th button as an "all off" scene. Also thinking I could use the roll back feature of RA2 to invoke some timing. would that still work even though the fans are being turned on indirectly by the pico buttons?


If your fans are hard-wired, yes, that'd work. If they're plug-in then the Lutron in-line appliance module would be something to consider. Bear in mind attics aren't the friendliest places to put electronic devices, so perhaps on a wall somewhere in regular conditioned space would be better. But I've had a motion sensor in the attic (nearly at the top of the ridge) and it's been fine. Likewise an accessory switch tied to an 8ANS downstairs (for attic lighting, not a fan).

As for the Pico, with using Homeseer or something like it you'd certainly be able to monitor button presses on Pico remotes. Use them as desired. Understanding that HS monitoring/control is separate from anything programmed into the Ra2 repeater. I use HS3 to augment the programming in my Ra2 setup.


----------



## wkearney99

socalsharky said:


> What about the
> *LMJ-16R-DV-B*


That one is just a device control. I use one in an attic plugged into a ceiling box to control the light on a ceiling fan (as wall space didn't allow for placing a dimmer). It clicks on/off, which may be an undesirable side-effect for some installs. 



> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/041424.pdf


That PDF does not correlate to that part.

The LMJ-CCO-24-B contact closure module shows up in the Inclusive level (2nd tier) of Ra2 programming options. I've not used one, nor do I know if it's supported in Ra2 Select (I doubt it). Bearing in mind, it's a 24v switching device, not line AC voltage.

Yes, it would be darned handy if Lutron supported a few more of their modules in Ra2. They don't and history shows not much traction on changing their perspective on this.


----------



## talguy

Thanks everyone for the help. Looks like I'll have to start making a bastardized system. I'll probably end up buying this z-wave switch that I know will accomplish my goal and link it with RA2 Select through Smart Things. This probably open up a lot of other things for me to integrate like door and window sensors.


----------



## wkearney99

Automation can benefit from multiple vendors. Not everything has to come from one source. It makes things more convenient, of course, but there's benefit in some diversity of device manufacturers competing with each other. I'm less than enthused with Smart Things as their cloud interface has been inconsistent in performance. I have it and really don't use it. Homeseer runs entirely local and works pretty well. There are others and I've tried/owned most of them. But for home automation I want reliable, so the wife/kids don't complain. HS3 has been doing that without fail.


----------



## spiwrx

talguy said:


> Thanks everyone for the help. Looks like I'll have to start making a bastardized system. I'll probably end up buying this z-wave switch that I know will accomplish my goal and link it with RA2 Select through Smart Things. This probably open up a lot of other things for me to integrate like door and window sensors.


Not sure how you would isolate your existing hoods controls, maybe just a diode, transistor or relay depending on the signal type it uses, then you could wire it into a VCRX for at least 2 inputs. But if you operate it solely from the RR2 system, I would just disregard the Local controls and intercept with Switch or Dimmer, ad relays if necessary and/or use the VCRX. You could place a local Pico or operate from local keypad. 

VCRX is close in price to 2 RR2 Switches/dimmers, so considering it has 4 outputs, it can be a bargain if you need 3-4 outputs. Only real downside is some extra wiring and only switching, no dimming from VCRX. 

The unit you linked to has whopping 3.5 stars and pictures from users of one that burned up. Also more questions than reviews. I would be careful. It's rated 10 amps, but not a horsepower (motor/inductive rating). Says resistive (lighting / heating) only, you would still have to use a motor rated relay or contactor to do it right. 

I can help you figure it out if you like, please contact me directly with the spec's of your hood and any schematics you may have.


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## wkearney99

I have a range hood over my 48" range and it unfortunately has integrated controls. I tried using an 8ANS with it and had terrible flicker. I did, however, have them hard-wire the setup so the fan can at least be controlled separately. The fan is on the outside of the house, not integrated into the hood. Now I just leave the controls on the hood set to on and use a pair of old-school wall switches. One powers everything, the other interrupts the hot line to the fan. 

I wanted to get around to investigating it again, but came to realize it's not that big a deal to just leave it alone with regular switches.


----------



## talguy

spiwrx said:


> Not sure how you would isolate your existing hoods controls, maybe just a diode, transistor or relay depending on the signal type it uses, then you could wire it into a VCRX for at least 2 inputs. But if you operate it solely from the RR2 system, I would just disregard the Local controls and intercept with Switch or Dimmer, ad relays if necessary and/or use the VCRX. You could place a local Pico or operate from local keypad.
> 
> VCRX is close in price to 2 RR2 Switches/dimmers, so considering it has 4 outputs, it can be a bargain if you need 3-4 outputs. Only real downside is some extra wiring and only switching, no dimming from VCRX.
> 
> The unit you linked to has whopping 3.5 stars and pictures from users of one that burned up. Also more questions than reviews. I would be careful. It's rated 10 amps, but not a horsepower (motor/inductive rating). Says resistive (lighting / heating) only, you would still have to use a motor rated relay or contactor to do it right.
> 
> I can help you figure it out if you like, please contact me directly with the spec's of your hood and any schematics you may have.


Thanks. How much this will be DIY if I get Level 1 certified? Trying to DIY the system.

Yeah I saw the reviews on that Aeotec relay. I just posted it as an example. Would have rather found something more reliable.

Attached is the best schematic I could get from the manufacturer (ZLine). Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.









Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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## thebland

Wow. My wife would think I was out of my mind if I tried to control the hood lights - never even thought of that. I'd worry about mucking up the hood controls / fan, microprocessor, etc. Internal fan system was not cheap (we also have a remote fan mounted on roof of house for our range hood). Crazy ***** here!


----------



## talguy

thebland said:


> Wow. My wife would think I was out of my mind if I tried to control the hood lights - never even thought of that. I'd worry about mucking up the hood controls / fan, microprocessor, etc. Internal fan system was not cheap (we also have a remote fan mounted on roof of house for our range hood). Crazy ***** here!


Yea I'm a little crazy. I was thinking of buynig a replacement control board and button box to test wiring schemes with before installing it in the actual hood.


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## wkearney99

thebland said:


> Wow. My wife would think I was out of my mind if I tried to control the hood lights - never even thought of that. I'd worry about mucking up the hood controls / fan, microprocessor, etc. Internal fan system was not cheap (we also have a remote fan mounted on roof of house for our range hood). Crazy ***** here!


My wife would be fine with controlling the lights... it's the ripping the hood apart and having panels hanging out that would get me the stink eye.

I tried using an 8ANS Ra2 switch but the fan wouldn't reliably start. No doubt an issue with in-rush current or something. Thus it's controlled old-school with just switches.


----------



## thebland

wkearney99 said:


> My wife would be fine with controlling the lights... it's the ripping the hood apart and having panels hanging out that would get me the stink eye.
> 
> I tried using an 8ANS Ra2 switch but the fan wouldn't reliably start. No doubt an issue with in-rush current or something. Thus it's controlled old-school with just switches.


So, you mean controlling the integrated hood lights and fan? They are dimmable and can be put on a timer (fan) at the head unit. Do not have that spec'd in my Lutron equipment list!  but if you have the fan on, you're likely near the stove and easy enough to switch on / off.


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## wkearney99

Is that a pipe for a pot filler? We have one. Make SURE to check the connections now and then. To my surprise the Hansgrohe one we have was loose and managed to separate when I swung it out. I managed to shut the water off quickly, so maybe only a quart of so of water spouted out of it. Surprised the hell out of me.

I have 2-gang box right next to the range top. One controls power to the whole hood. The other interrupts power to the fan motor (that's mounted outside). We don't use the on-hood controls at all. The electrician made a face when I made the demand for wiring it this way... but it turned out I was right. I had him run two 12/3 romex lines down from a junction box behind the hood, along with power going through the wall box FIRST (not direct to the hood). This way I'm set for whatever sort of wiring re-arrangement I might want later. Turns out we're fine with using regular wall paddle switches for it, and not the controls on the hood.


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## socalsharky

Question for any of you guys that have incorporated your RA2 setup into Homeseer. I have also posted this on the HS forum, but no responses so far.


I have a hybrid keypad, and I want to use one of the buttons to control my pool lights (which are also integrated into HS3 using Autelis). When I programmed the hybrid in the Essentials software, I named the button as "Pool Lights" but did not assign any dimmers or switches to it. The other buttons were assigned to various dimmers. When I added this hybrid to HS3, the button for the Pool Lights looks different than all of the other buttons on this hybrid. The status icon listed as "Press" and there an "LED On" button shown for that particular button. "Pressing" the button for the Pool Lights in HS3 does not do anything. Do you have to have some device tied to the button in order for it to work in HS3? Is there a workaround? I guess I could create a Phantom device in Essentials and tell the button to control that switch, but that would use up one of my 100 allowable devices.


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## wkearney99

What load is controlling the pool lights? The dimmer in the hybrid? Or another dimmer?

Tangentially, I have a hybrid with a load on it that's not controlled on the keypad itself. Just some other buttons elsewhere and some programming. So the system is pretty versatile. Though I don't know that I have HS3 interacting with it.

As for Essentials/Inclusive (when you have 2 main repeaters) you typically have a scene attached to a button. Are you trying to use the buttons as just pure buttons, with nothing happening inside the Ra2 environment? If so you'd be looking to add an event triggered by the button being pressed. Remember, buttons are not just limited to single devices. That and scenes can be "set things to a particular state" or "room monitoring". Like a "Dinner" scene that sets things on to particular levels... but also sets any number of others to OFF. Dinner lights low... kitchen lights OFF (but with a delay both in ramp speed and time to start the transition). The upside to scenes in Ra2 is you can controls several lights simultaneously and avoid the 'popcorn effect'. Most automation systems send command sequentially, leading to one, light, after, another, being, changed. With a Ra2 scene you can dim/raise several all at once. 

Also consider that LEDs on buttons can track status and are themselves usable as a trigger. That is, if you have a scene that tracks that state of multiple devices you could have HS3 likewise tracking the status of the LED. As in, if the Ra2 system scene for a button (tied to a scene) is in the 'lit' state then HS3 could "do something". Most typically the LEDs for scenes like this in Ra2 are used to track the state of multiple zones. Allowing for a quick glance to see if any of the lights are still illuminated or not. Handy for a button that controls, say, a Rec Room with a half-dozen circuits (ceiling cans, table lamps, wall sconces, pool table, etc).

As for your HS3 question, yeah, the forums there are deafening silent when it comes to Ra2 inquiries.

So would you mind clarifying exactly what it is you want to accomplish?


----------



## socalsharky

wkearney99 said:


> What load is controlling the pool lights? The dimmer in the hybrid? Or another dimmer?
> 
> Tangentially, I have a hybrid with a load on it that's not controlled on the keypad itself. Just some other buttons elsewhere and some programming. So the system is pretty versatile. Though I don't know that I have HS3 interacting with it.
> 
> As for Essentials/Inclusive (when you have 2 main repeaters) you typically have a scene attached to a button. Are you trying to use the buttons as just pure buttons, with nothing happening inside the Ra2 environment? If so you'd be looking to add an event triggered by the button being pressed. Remember, buttons are not just limited to single devices. That and scenes can be "set things to a particular state" or "room monitoring". Like a "Dinner" scene that sets things on to particular levels... but also sets any number of others to OFF. Dinner lights low... kitchen lights OFF (but with a delay both in ramp speed and time to start the transition). The upside to scenes in Ra2 is you can controls several lights simultaneously and avoid the 'popcorn effect'. Most automation systems send command sequentially, leading to one, light, after, another, being, changed. With a Ra2 scene you can dim/raise several all at once.
> 
> Also consider that LEDs on buttons can track status and are themselves usable as a trigger. That is, if you have a scene that tracks that state of multiple devices you could have HS3 likewise tracking the status of the LED. As in, if the Ra2 system scene for a button (tied to a scene) is in the 'lit' state then HS3 could "do something". Most typically the LEDs for scenes like this in Ra2 are used to track the state of multiple zones. Allowing for a quick glance to see if any of the lights are still illuminated or not. Handy for a button that controls, say, a Rec Room with a half-dozen circuits (ceiling cans, table lamps, wall sconces, pool table, etc).
> 
> As for your HS3 question, yeah, the forums there are deafening silent when it comes to Ra2 inquiries.
> 
> So would you mind clarifying exactly what it is you want to accomplish?



Wayne, thanks for the detailed response. I was pretty much aware of all of the functionality you discuss in the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs above.


In a nutshell, I want to use a button on the RA2 hybrid dimmer to interact only with HS3, and do nothing within the RA2 environment. As I mentioned, I have not assigned any action of the "Pool Lights" button in the Essentials software. The Pool lights are wired through my Pentair panel, which in turn is linked to HS3 by an Autelis module. I can control the pool lights manually from HS3, now I just want a button on the hybrid dimmer to control them. I think the problem may be that I do not have any dimmers assigned to the "Pool Lights" button within RA2 programming. All of the other buttons on that hybrid are assigned as toggles or scenes to various dimmers, and they appear "normally" in the HS3 software. You can see all of this in the attached photo above.


----------



## wkearney99

It's Bill, not Wayne, but that's ok. W being for William. But as the saying goes "call me anything... just don't call me late for dinner!"

OK, yes, you want to trap a button press. I'll dig into my HS3 events and post back once I have a chance to poke around. Got a bunch happening, it'll be a day or two.

I don't think you should have to 'waste' a phantom button. Note, your main repeater itself has some phantom buttons as part of it (if I recall correctly). So you've got some "in there" already.


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## socalsharky

wkearney99 said:


> It's Bill, not Wayne, but that's ok. W being for William. But as the saying goes "call me anything... just don't call me late for dinner!"
> 
> OK, yes, you want to trap a button press. I'll dig into my HS3 events and post back once I have a chance to poke around. Got a bunch happening, it'll be a day or two.
> 
> I don't think you should have to 'waste' a phantom button. Note, your main repeater itself has some phantom buttons as part of it (if I recall correctly). So you've got some "in there" already.



Sorry Bill-not sure where I got Wayne. I've seen you post on several boards and I should have known. Any help you can provide would be great. Also hoping Paul (@spiwrx;)will weigh in.


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## wkearney99

Ok, I just posted a reply to your thread over on the HS3 forum for the Ra2 plug-in.

https://forums.homeseer.com/forum/l...seetouch-keypad-presses?p=1256561#post1256561

I've confirmed that a hybrid button programmed with no devices does not send information that the HS3 plug-in would need to track the LED state change. The keypad does toggle the LED, and inquiries to it directly do return the current state. But no LED change command gets sent.

I also posted a question on the Lutron forum about it:

https://forums.lutron.com/showthrea...send-LED-changes?p=25989&viewfull=1#post25989


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## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> Sorry Bill-not sure where I got Wayne. I've seen you post on several boards and I should have known. Any help you can provide would be great. Also hoping Paul (spiwrx)will weigh in.


Sorry guys, up to my armpits here working on new business accounting software, btw any recommendations? 

Bill probably has a lot more experience then me on the HS. I have it in my home, but mainly for some basics and proof of concept. _(And something else to do with a raspberry pi) _


In terms of the Keypad, it's closed loop from my understanding at least in the way the LED responds the state of the Scene. So it should send the scene command but unless any/all of the devices report back that they reached their scene level(s) the LED will not indicate correctly. I use a simple RR2 dimmer for my pool lights and used VCRX as a pool/spa control panel. But it sounds like you already have another type of controller. Perhaps if you have a VCRX, maybe for your garage (or hood ?) you likely have an unused output, program the Keypad button to one of the outputs, even though it won't be doing anything. The system doesn't know whats wired to the VCRX and there are no load requirements. You may need to program it to "Maintained" output.


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## wkearney99

I'm digging into how the keypad buttons work with various scene styles attached to them. Not all of them are handled the same. I'll try to summarize once I figure it out some more.

As for business accounting software, waaaaaay back when I used to prefer Great Plains Software, but I have no idea how it is these days. They were bought by Microsoft a while back, and I think it's called "Dynamics" now. No idea how it compares these days.


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## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> I'm digging into how the keypad buttons work with various scene styles attached to them. Not all of them are handled the same. I'll try to summarize once I figure it out some more.


The LED status based on button logic is best explained in the button description on the programming page(e.g. "Scene", "Path", etc..). But keep in mind not all the options in "inclusive" are available in "essentials". 



wkearney99 said:


> As for business accounting software, waaaaaay back when I used to prefer Great Plains Software, but I have no idea how it is these days. They were bought by Microsoft a while back, and I think it's called "Dynamics" now. No idea how it compares these days.


The software we have now is very "Dynamics" like, and like me it's just getting old, slow and as a lot of you have seen I can't even attach a document to it's emails. It can barely email. Was looking for something scaled down, as we don't need the entire manufacturing side of it we don't use. But between quick books and a full ERP there is a big void in the market and pricing.


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## dgage

spiwrx said:


> The software we have now is very "Dynamics" like, and like me it's just getting old, slow and as a lot of you have seen I can't even attach a document to it's emails. It can barely email. Was looking for something scaled down, as we don't need the entire manufacturing side of it we don't use. But between quick books and a full ERP there is a big void in the market and pricing.


I use Xero online accounting for my small business and use Cloze for CRM. Zoho is another online software that seems to be popular with smaller businesses and has several modules to choose from. But there are so many software packages out there but they are primarily online.


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## cyrus494

*Can't get Pico's to Program*

Hiya,

Installing a RadioRa2 system myself (did the online training), installing RadioRa2, Ra2 Select. I want to use a pico remote and can't, for the life of me, get them to pair. I'm following the instructions in the RadioRa2 setup guide: Press the top and bottom button on the pico for 3 seconds. Then press the light you want to control for 3 seconds. Then press the pico's top and bottom button for 3 seconds to end programming. The light should then dim and turn on to indicate that the pairing worked. 

When I hold the top and bottom buttons on the Pico, the Pico's led will blink but it won't pair. These pico's were used with some Caseta switches but I did the factory reset on the pico. 

Any suggestions?


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## socalsharky

cyrus494 said:


> Hiya,
> 
> Installing a RadioRa2 system myself (did the online training), installing RadioRa2, Ra2 Select. I want to use a pico remote and can't, for the life of me, get them to pair. I'm following the instructions in the RadioRa2 setup guide: Press the top and bottom button on the pico for 3 seconds. Then press the light you want to control for 3 seconds. Then press the pico's top and bottom button for 3 seconds to end programming. The light should then dim and turn on to indicate that the pairing worked.
> 
> When I hold the top and bottom buttons on the Pico, the Pico's led will blink but it won't pair. These pico's were used with some Caseta switches but I did the factory reset on the pico.
> 
> Any suggestions?



You need to pair the pico to the switch/dimmer using the Essentials software. The method you are using is for switches that are not part of RA2. Go to the "program" tab, and select keypads from the dropdown menu on the left. It's pretty self explanatory once you find it.


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## gdfein

I am in the midst of backyard project, pool covered patio and outdoor kitchen. The Patio/Kitchen are detached from the house and approximately 75’ from my RA2 repeater. The Patio/Kitchen will have 8 can lights, two fans, task lighting cans for kitchen. I am interested in having my builder use RA2 dimmers/speed controls in this outdoor area. They will be covered from direct rain and sun but will be exposed to the overall outdoor environment of S.E. Texas

a) any qualms on this plan using RA2 in this capacity, and any special measures or other products I should consider?

b) do you think I need another repeater outside in the patio/kitchen to get good range or will the outdoor switches “see” the indoor repeater 75’ away through an exterior wall and some windows?

Welcome some input. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cyrus494

socalsharky said:


> You need to pair the pico to the switch/dimmer using the Essentials software. The method you are using is for switches that are not part of RA2. Go to the "program" tab, and select keypads from the dropdown menu on the left. It's pretty self explanatory once you find it.


Awesome -- this helped. I was also confused how to activate it but then went through the activation and saw that you can hold down the pico's button to activate it. Thanks!


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## socalsharky

gdfein said:


> I am in the midst of backyard project, pool covered patio and outdoor kitchen. The Patio/Kitchen are detached from the house and approximately 75’ from my RA2 repeater. The Patio/Kitchen will have 8 can lights, two fans, task lighting cans for kitchen. I am interested in having my builder use RA2 dimmers/speed controls in this outdoor area. They will be covered from direct rain and sun but will be exposed to the overall outdoor environment of S.E. Texas
> 
> a) any qualms on this plan using RA2 in this capacity, and any special measures or other products I should consider?
> 
> b) do you think I need another repeater outside in the patio/kitchen to get good range or will the outdoor switches “see” the indoor repeater 75’ away through an exterior wall and some windows?
> 
> Welcome some input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'm not sure if Lutron recommends it, but if it is protected from rain and sun, I don't see a problem. I currently have a RA2 dimmer installed inside the base of my concrete block BBQ. It is about 50-60 feet from my repeater, through several interior walls, an exterior wall, and the concrete block wall of the BBQ. Initially, I had to activate the dimmer inside the house. The dimmer was too far away from the main repeater for activation. My Lutron sales rep informed that this might happen, since the signal strength required during activation is higher than during normal operation. To achieve this, I made a pigtail that I could attach to the dimmer and plug it into a wall outlet inside the house. Once I got it activated, it mostly worked, but occasionally would not. I then added the small wireless aux repeater, and that solved the problems. It's been flawless since.


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## spiwrx

gdfein said:


> I am in the midst of backyard project, pool covered patio and outdoor kitchen. The Patio/Kitchen are detached from the house and approximately 75’ from my RA2 repeater. The Patio/Kitchen will have 8 can lights, two fans, task lighting cans for kitchen. I am interested in having my builder use RA2 dimmers/speed controls in this outdoor area. They will be covered from direct rain and sun but will be exposed to the overall outdoor environment of S.E. Texas
> 
> a) any qualms on this plan using RA2 in this capacity, and any special measures or other products I should consider?
> 
> b) do you think I need another repeater outside in the patio/kitchen to get good range or will the outdoor switches “see” the indoor repeater 75’ away through an exterior wall and some windows?
> 
> Welcome some input.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have 2 devices outside in typical exterior "flip" covers. I'm not at 75' but the weather hasn't been a problem so far. I'm closer to 30ft but in a steel box & cover, through stucco, and 2 other interior wall + door to my equipment closet. In free space the signal can go quite a bit further, and as someone else has mentioned the range is at it's worst during activation. Activate by serial code or temporarily move you main repeater with extension cords if necessary. You might also run into some intermittent communication, but if you can deal with that or add the Aux. repeater. 

For consistent performance I would add an Aux. repeater. If it's clear space 75ft may no be a problem. 

FYI, I don't think you are far enough to require it but for extra distance the system can be extended over Ethernet (requires 2nd main repeater & Inclusive Software)
Or you can use the MUX link wired between the Primary Main and standard Aux Repeater. (4conductor low voltage 18awg, not CAT5 or 6)


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## Bigus

Forgive me if this was covered already, forum search and Google search didn't get to an answer quickly.

Just getting started with the Essentials software to get a BOM and cost estimate on our new home build to see if it is an option. 

I don't see the RRD-6ND as an option under any load type. Quick search seems to indicate its a Select product line option but should work fine with RadioRa2. I wanted to get confirmation of this as many LED lighting loads are well under the wattage limit and its a decent cost savings over the 10ND. Of course I would probably order one switch and a few LED bulbs to verify for myself that I like the dimming vs say 10ND, 6CL, 6NA.

Can it be directly substituted for the 10ND so long as load limits are followed? Meaning, will the Essentials software recognize and program it correctly? Or have I overlooked something obvious?


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## wkearney99

Have you determined your lighting elements yet? Use the Lutron website or call them directly to determine which dimmer would be best suited for your lighting needs. 

This will answer the 'can it be substituted' question. Because with LEDs... "it depends".

And bravo for taking the time to use Essentials to model the installation. Once you have a project file created you could potentially share that with whatever supplier you use to purchase the devices. _>hint, hint, he participates in this thread_


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## Bigus

Thanks for the response. 

Understood that LED compatibility can be somewhat complicated. I've spent some time on Lutron's LED compatibility and section tools. Looks like there are a variety of commonly sized bulbs out there that measure OK with the 6CL, 6NA, 6ND and 10ND dimmers. So it seems it could be as much a matter of choosing bulbs that work well with a desired dimmer as it can be choosing a dimmer that works well with your loads. At least for a new build.

With my LED loads being from 10W up to a max of around 150-200W, I would think the 6ND as a newer offering at a significant price savings over the 10ND but using similar technology would be a no brainier. And when I search and peruse Lutron forums I find talk about it becoming a defacto choice etc.

My confusion is then why isn't it in the Essentials software? Is it actually compatible with Ra2, or just select only? I guess I could call Lutron. Just figured its easier (and lazier!) to ask here first.

As for your other questions, still working through just how many keypads I might use. The wife likes the idea direct control over a single group of lights (probably because this is all she's familiar with). My goal would be to automate so much and use scenes for the rest that the single button dimmers are rarely used. At a bit of a crossroads on whether I would then want a bunch of dimmers cluttering walls that are rarely used. 

Keypads would probably go at front door and garage door entry, master bedroom, and probably one location convenient to the main living areas (kitchen, keeping, living).

Why the stairwell? Wouldn't have thought about that...


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## wkearney99

Call. Ask. Cut right to the chase.

LEDs are more of a hassle than most folks realize. Might as well get off on the right foot.

I planned our lighting like it was non-automated and added a single gang position where a box would could use a keypad. The bottom-most button on any keypad is always an "All Off" for it's controlled area. The main entry doors use All Off for the whole house. 

The stairwell keypad has buttons for the kids rooms. This to illuminate a set of lights. Which is mainly to bring up the bedroom and bathroom lights for bed time. That's on the stairway post going up. 

A keypad on the wall going down has buttons rec room play, workshop and theater (among other things). Those are scenes that illuminate one set of lights, but turn off a whole batch of others that might have been left lit. Basically, make it feel safe to go into the area but then turn off every other light they also left on. The slick part is having different delay and fade times. Some lights drop off immediately, to let you know the button press worked. The rest either start a few seconds later (like to let you get up the stairs before turning them off) or have a longer fade (like the bathrooms to give someone in there a chance to over-ride the slowly dimming light). 

Scenes seem great in marketing materials. Modes for 'atmosphere' just seem artificial to me. In real life they're of questionable merit. Having a limited number of buttons really makes it a hassle to use them to their best effect. However, adding voice control opens things up a bit. You still have to program a scene somewhere (the repeater gives you several phantoms) but then you can call that instead of trying to poke little buttons. Even with that we still don't really have a lifestyle that needs scenes set up like that. YMMV, of course, just one man's opinion here.

My suggestion is put a keypad where there's a transition point. At the entry doors and stairway are pretty obvious. At a kitchen island or the dining room is another (to control the lighting in the other spaces). Likewise any place that might benefit from a combined way to control more than one area's lighting. A bar to set the lighting in the adjacent theater, for example.

They don't have to be 'everywhere' nor does there have to be a ton of them but a few here and there go a long way toward a well-automated setup.


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## wkearney99

Also consider than in places where you might use an 3-way setup, you could use a keypad instead. 

_Side note, Lutron's RD-RD dimmers support any number of accessory dimmers. You can string multiple ones onto a load. 3-way, 4-way, or more. Not that you'd necessarily want to do this, but they handle the switching via a signalling line, not the whole live load. _ 

For example, we've got a rec room that has a number of area/activity/task lights. Pool table, foosball, ceiling cans, table lamps, nearby utility closet with fridge, etc. All of them have their dimmer near their location. The main entry point to the rec room has a keypad and several remote RD-RD accessory dimmers (the second-half of a typical 3-way). It's only the major lighting that's available there on the accessory dimmers (nearby bar pendant lights and the ceiling cans). The rest are all buttons on the keypad. This makes for a simpler 3-gang wall plate at the entrance instead of a monstrous row to separate ones. If we want specific task lights we can either tap the dimmer close to them, use a keypad button or voice control (our most common method lately). Nice part is the bottom 'All Off' scene will turn them all off. 

What's better looking? A keypad and two paddles, or an 8-gang line of paddles? Me, I hate long rows of dimmers, because they don't immediately make it obvious what they control. It becomes a whack-a-mole game to get the desired lighting. Two paddles on major lights handle getting the spaces 'usable' and then the labeled keypad buttons handle the rest.


----------



## socalsharky

Bigus said:


> Forgive me if this was covered already, forum search and Google search didn't get to an answer quickly.
> 
> Just getting started with the Essentials software to get a BOM and cost estimate on our new home build to see if it is an option.
> 
> I don't see the RRD-6ND as an option under any load type. Quick search seems to indicate its a Select product line option but should work fine with RadioRa2. I wanted to get confirmation of this as many LED lighting loads are well under the wattage limit and its a decent cost savings over the 10ND. Of course I would probably order one switch and a few LED bulbs to verify for myself that I like the dimming vs say 10ND, 6CL, 6NA.
> 
> Can it be directly substituted for the 10ND so long as load limits are followed? Meaning, will the Essentials software recognize and program it correctly? Or have I overlooked something obvious?



What version of the Essentials software are you running? That is likely the issue. When I completed the training and was given a link to download the software, it gave me a pretty old version. I created a MyLutron account and was able to download the latest version. That one had the 6ND dimmer.


I have used the 6ND dimmer extensively through my house, and it has performed better with LEDs than anything but the 6NA, which is much more expensive. The worst for me was the 6CL. Of course, YMMV.


----------



## Bigus

socalsharky said:


> What version of the Essentials software are you running? That is likely the issue. When I completed the training and was given a link to download the software, it gave me a pretty old version. I created a MyLutron account and was able to download the latest version. That one had the 6ND dimmer.


I'll have to check but that seems a likely culprit... I used the download link provided when I finished the training and assumed that would be the latest version.


----------



## Bigus

Oh... and did you really meann the 6NA is much cheaper? Or more expensive? Quick Google search I find similar prices from a source or two but haven't dug too deeply into list price or what common street prices are.


----------



## socalsharky

Bigus said:


> Oh... and did you really meann the 6NA is much cheaper? Or more expensive? Quick Google search I find similar prices from a source or two but haven't dug too deeply into list price or what common street prices are.



Sorry, I meant more expensive. I edited the post above. The dimmers I used by price: 6ND < 6CL < 6NA.


If you have a neutral wire, the 6ND should provide the best performance/cost ratio of all. I used a couple of 6CL's where I didn't have a neutral (switches added by electrician after original construction) and a couple of 6NA's for some really finicky LEDs.


----------



## Bigus

Thanks for clarifying. I'll look tomorrow for the updated software. This is a new build so shouldn't have any problem having a neutral used universally.


----------



## socalsharky

Bigus said:


> Thanks for clarifying. I'll look tomorrow for the updated software. This is a new build so shouldn't have any problem having a neutral used universally.



I would have a couple of 6CL's on hand just in case. You may have some switches where the fixture is between the source and the switch. In this case, there may not be a neutral in the box and you would not be able to use the 6ND. I had one switch wired this way, even though my house is 1996 construction and has neutrals.


----------



## schalliol

I have found that generally the 6CLs work better than the 6NDs across a host of LED dimmable bulbs. Your mileage may vary, but I was disappointed with the 6ND.


----------



## Bigus

Thanks for the practical experience. I'll probably order one of each and evaluate them myself on a few bulb types.


----------



## jjwinterberg

socalsharky said:


> I would have a couple of 6CL's on hand just in case. You may have some switches where the fixture is between the source and the switch. In this case, there may not be a neutral in the box and you would not be able to use the 6ND. I had one switch wired this way, even though my house is 1996 construction and has neutrals.





Bigus said:


> Thanks for the practical experience. I'll probably order one of each and evaluate them myself on a few bulb types.


I have this wiring in my house and it drives me crazy. If you are having your new build, I'd recommend that you spec a neutral wire in every box.


----------



## Bigus

jjwinterberg said:


> I have this wiring in my house and it drives me crazy. If you are having your new build, I'd recommend that you spec a neutral wire in every box.


I'll discuss it with builder and electrician. Its a custom home, they will ultimately do what I tell them within reason. May be a small surcharge for material, can't imagine it amounts to much in the overall picture.


----------



## dgage

Bigus said:


> I'll discuss it with builder and electrician. Its a custom home, they will ultimately do what I tell them within reason. May be a small surcharge for material, can't imagine it amounts to much in the overall picture.


It is supposed to be code nationally. So verify but it shouldn’t be extra. If they don’t, you may want to get another electrician.


----------



## Bigus

socalsharky said:


> What version of the Essentials software are you running? That is likely the issue. When I completed the training and was given a link to download the software, it gave me a pretty old version. I created a MyLutron account and was able to download the latest version. That one had the 6ND dimmer.


Think my version is 11.6.0.

I created a mylutron account and poked around the various tabs, used the search box, but couldn't find the essentials software to download. Do I have to link it to my learn.lutron account to have that option? Looked for an aaccount number in learn and didn't see one there either.

I usually don't feel web ignorant but I made enough circles on mylutron I thought I'd just ask.


----------



## socalsharky

Bigus said:


> Think my version is 11.6.0.
> 
> I created a mylutron account and poked around the various tabs, used the search box, but couldn't find the essentials software to download. Do I have to link it to my learn.lutron account to have that option? Looked for an aaccount number in learn and didn't see one there either.
> 
> I usually don't feel web ignorant but I made enough circles on mylutron I thought I'd just ask.



Yes, the 2 accounts need to be linked. I now remember that I had to call Lutron to get the two linked up. Just like you, I couldn't figure out a way to do it myself. Their multiple websites (especially the Learn site) are not very user friendly or even up-to-date in appearance.


My Essentials software is 12.0.1. I haven't checked for an update in a while, there may be something even more recent. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


----------



## wkearney99

Oh yeah, it's up to version 12.0.1 now. 

Lutron's handling of the website and the whole Essentials/Inclusive thing is... annoying at best.


----------



## Bigus

Is inclusive dealer only? What happens if I wind up needing 105 devices in essentials?

For me, a big selling point of Lutron is that I can program it myself. I don't mind so much if I need a dealer assistance to get initial configuration, but I'd really like to be able to tweak and adapt as we get acclimated to a system.


----------



## jjwinterberg

Bigus said:


> Is inclusive dealer only? What happens if I wind up needing 105 devices in essentials?
> 
> For me, a big selling point of Lutron is that I can program it myself. I don't mind so much if I need a dealer assistance to get initial configuration, but I'd really like to be able to tweak and adapt as we get acclimated to a system.


Inclusive is not dealer only. You do need to attend a Lutron training class to get the access to the upgrade from essentials.


----------



## Bigus

jjwinterberg said:


> Inclusive is not dealer only. You do need to attend a Lutron training class to get the access to the upgrade from essentials.


Ah. Well, will see how things look in essentials and go from there. Good to know there is a path.


----------



## schalliol

It was dealer only at the last time I reviewed because you needed to submit multiple projects, but keep in mind you’d need to go to PA or one other location and spend something like $1,000 plus travel.


----------



## Bigus

Then hopefully I can keep it under 95. A bit worried about that since I assume even remote dimmers and Pico dimmers count. We will see.

Maybe a stupid question, but if an overlaid automation system was planned, like CQC or whatever, could that glue together two RadioRa 2 systems/main repeaters without them being internally connected? Unless the transmission frequencies/signals clash without the two being linked, which may be the case.

Have no problem paying the smallish fees I've seen for online system design, but programming... that's the deal breaker.


----------



## smoothtlk

Bigus said:


> Then hopefully I can keep it under 95. A bit worried about that since I assume even remote dimmers and Pico dimmers count. We will see.
> 
> Maybe a stupid question, but if an overlaid automation system was planned, like CQC or whatever, could that glue together two RadioRa 2 systems/main repeaters without them being internally connected? Unless the transmission frequencies/signals clash without the two being linked, which may be the case.
> 
> Have no problem paying the smallish fees I've seen for online system design, but programming... that's the deal breaker.


yes, an automation system can bridge between multiple hubs / lighting systems, if programmed to do so (from the automation supplier), and configured to do so (by you / your installer). And certainly you can do a whole lot more at that point with the overall system.
With myServer and CQC you can do all the programming yourself. Or, at least with myServer, you can have us do it for you, either initially or also ongoing. Whatever you need.


----------



## Bigus

Any idea about conflicts between Ra2 signaling? I assume frequency band would be the same. My fear is that device 1 in system 1 and device 1 in system 2 might look the same to both main repeaters, and thus if in range respond to commands from either.

Conceptually, I have no problem with independent systems on floors 1 and 2 so long as there isn't a crosstalk issue as above. Most dimmers would be local to those rooms anyway, and more generic keypad scenes like "all off" can easily enough ping both systems I guess.


----------



## smoothtlk

Think of it as two apartments next to each other, each having their own RadioRa devices. Yes, the frequencies "co-mingle" but the devices aren't subscribed to both hubs so the hub to device relationship is "private".
Same thing with your neighbor and your WiFi coexisting. But your devices aren't authenticated to the neighbors access point, so they can't get to your device's files and functions. Yes there are some RF downsides when the airwaves get too saturated, but typically not an issue.


----------



## Bigus

Cool, good to know. I didn't think of an apartment situation. I was thinking with limited range there might not be a need to be so tidy with the digital pairing.


----------



## dgage

And that brings up that I’d recommend a left-right configuration as opposed to an up-down setup as that way you could put a main repeater on the left and right of your house and have better coverage of your house and less overlap/interference.


----------



## Bigus

Thanks for the tip. I've got some work to do in essentials to see just what my device count might be.


----------



## ksalno

smoothtlk said:


> yes, an automation system can bridge between multiple hubs / lighting systems, if programmed to do so (from the automation supplier), and configured to do so (by you / your installer). And certainly you can do a whole lot more at that point with the overall system.
> With myServer and CQC you can do all the programming yourself. Or, at least with myServer, you can have us do it for you, either initially or also ongoing. Whatever you need.


Sorry for the somewhat off topic question but I’m currently trying to tie an AV system together that has components that are controllable vía IR (in multiple rooms), IP, and RS-232. I’ve been looking at a variety of control systems but haven’t looked at myServer or CQC closely. My question is why would you need both? They seem somewhat redundant.


----------



## dgage

ksalno said:


> Sorry for the somewhat off topic question but I’m currently trying to tie an AV system together that has components that are controllable vía IR (in multiple rooms), IP, and RS-232. I’ve been looking at a variety of control systems but haven’t looked at myServer or CQC closely. My question is why would you need both? They seem somewhat redundant.


You wouldn’t. myServer and CQC are competitors and do the same thing. I have a license to CQC but really don’t use it anymore but it is good software with great support. I’m not familiar with myServer. But CQC could do what you’re trying to do assuming all of your devices have a driver, which you could send an email with your model numbers to get an answer. And Cocoontech.com forum has a lot more information and people knowledgeable about automation systems and software (security too).


----------



## smoothtlk

yes, dgage is correct.
myServer and CQC are similar solutions that compete with each other. No need to have both.
You might also read about Homeseer. A third good example of similar. All three are probably the most powerful automation controllers on the market, at any price. Certainly there are pros and cons comparing one to the other.

If the automation software has a RadioRa driver, and allows for multiple instances or multiple Ra hub connections, then the software can bridge between the user interface, the macros, the event triggers to the multiple Ra hubs. Then, each Ra hub sends "private" commands to each RadioRa device that it is enrolled to (paired with).

For ksalno's use case, the automation software also helps bridge multiple inputs to multiple outputs. IR, Serial, TCP are examples of communication mechanisms that can be an Input or as an Output.

So, myServer (for example) can "Hear" an IR remote button push, and then myServer can run a rule that says "when I hear IR Button X get pushed, I should tell the RadioRa light in the theater room to turn off by sending a IP message to RadioRa hub #2 ." and "warm the projector up by sending a On command via serial port #3 . And Turn on the AV Receiver by sending an IP command to IP address .123". Etc.


----------



## blake

Isn’t it better to use a wired lighting control system for a new build (as was stated a few posts back) to not only improve reliability, but to reduce the number of traditional ganged switches needed on the walls ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## smoothtlk

re: new build:
Yes, hard wired, home run systems are the best but at a major premium in price.
RadioRa2 can also be wired to minimize multigang switches by locating the load switching to an appliance room ("semi home run wired") and putting multi button switches in a single gang in the room that are programmed to turn the right load switch on / off / dim.
Most of the advantages of a true home run, but at least half the cost.


----------



## spiwrx

FYI, Lutron is having a price increase on January 20th. This effects all Lutron distributors. We don't know exactly what parts and what % exactly, but they are stating systems, so it will effect RR2. 
Many of you have been getting the same pricing for years with no price increase, so this was inevitable. 

From Lutron:
"As previously communicated in our email dated November 16, 2018, Lutron will adjust pricing on select products in the commercial systems, residential systems, shades, and fixture product families effective January 20, 2019. This price increase will average 4% and is necessary due to multiple cost impacts in the overall marketplace."

"Systems" means Caseta, Select, Radio Ra 2, Grafik Eye & Home Works. We have skirted other price increases in the past, but this one is across the board. 4% isn't huge, especially from all the other tariff related increases we've seen being 15-25% in the lighting and electrical industry. 


The last day we'll be able to take orders at regular price will be the 18th. If I have quoted you something, including shades, the quote price will only be good until the 18th as well.


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## spiwrx

blake said:


> Isn’t it better to use a wired lighting control system for a new build (as was stated a few posts back) to not only improve reliability, but to reduce the number of traditional ganged switches needed on the walls ?



Yes, to both. But the home runs can be expensive as mentioned, or the idea is to just get the stuff out of site, so another perspective, is just moving them to another accessible area. Maybe a closet, attic, basement, mechanical room, pantry, etc... In other words, if you are planning a new build or major remodel, place the dimmers out of site, and place Keypads as necessary (where it makes sense to). Especially in rooms with 3 or more dimmers. The nice part of RR2 is we also have the Hybrid Keypad & Dimmer in one, so you can leave at least 1 local lighting circuit. If you are just replacing dimmers or switches in an existing home, you may not have the luxury of placing dimmers & switches where you want. In this case the Hybrid Keypad/Dimmer is also a great choice, but also take a look at you multi-locations circuits (3-ways & 4-ways). If you have a switch at either end of a Hall or Stairs, typically one of these locations is a high traffic area that could use a keypad. One of the Keypads buttons can be programmed for the 3-way operation for those hall/stair lights and the other location is reconfigured to a single pole. We call this a virtual 3-way & keeps you from adding or enlarging existing switch boxes. Also their PICO scene controller is a great add-on for up to 3 scenes (+off). That can be placed without a box.


----------



## ComponY

I sometimes use RadioRA2 in some of my clients houses. It uses a wireless solution to bring everything together and work. It’s actually really good, and I’ve had GREAT experiences with it. There’s other solutions such as UPB. Which run off the neutral wire in the house. The problem with that however, is that sometimes you’ll get noise somewhere on the line, and it is a pain to find and fix at times. Depending on the house, the material the house is made of, I tend to use either UPB or Radio RA2. I’m not a fan of using Zigbee devices, so it’s usually those two.


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## killswitch1968

I have Lutron shades and lights in my home. They were installed 5 years ago before a lot of smart home tech was around. I mostly wanted them for the shades which were/are the best and quietest in the business.

I'm now looking at more home automation but I'd like to move away from the proprietary dealer-centric model Lutron requires. Specifically I'd like something to integrates with my existing RadioRA2 Lutron network but will also handle things like door locks, sprinklers, some IFTTT, and if possible AV abilities. I have a home theater (receiver, Nvidia Shield and Projector) I'd like to hook up for easy control under one system. I suspect I'll have to get a Harmony Remote in the end but are there any existing Home Automation products that work with RadioRA2? It seems they've heavily protected their controls.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## FlyingDiver

killswitch1968 said:


> I suspect I'll have to get a Harmony Remote in the end but are there any existing Home Automation products that work with RadioRA2? It seems they've heavily protected their controls.


Pretty much any serious home automation system works with RRA2 since they have a very robust serial or IP based automation interface in the repeater.

So you just need to decide if you want a full DIY system or a dealer-installed system (with DIY capability) or what?

And that really should be the subject of a different thread.


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## wkearney99

killswitch1968 said:


> I have Lutron shades and lights in my home. They were installed 5 years ago before a lot of smart home tech was around. I mostly wanted them for the shades which were/are the best and quietest in the business.
> 
> I'm now looking at more home automation but I'd like to move away from the proprietary dealer-centric model Lutron requires. Specifically I'd like something to integrates with my existing RadioRA2 Lutron network but will also handle things like door locks, sprinklers, some IFTTT, and if possible AV abilities. I have a home theater (receiver, Nvidia Shield and Projector) I'd like to hook up for easy control under one system. I suspect I'll have to get a Harmony Remote in the end but are there any existing Home Automation products that work with RadioRA2? It seems they've heavily protected their controls.



They're totally open with regard to the protocols you'd use to control the lighting. Lots of systems support it. The RF is unique to the their implementations, that's true. But it's in a part of the spectrum not crowded by a bunch of other stuff. Lighting best when it works... EVERY time. That, you get, with the Ra2 stuff.

Harmony is a train-wreck. Logitech can't figure out how not to screw it up. Do not expect a universal remote (from ANY vendor) to actually BE universal. The Harmony are nice, no doubt, but they're TV controls. Their lighting automation 'attempt' is weak, at best. I wish it were better, but it's not and not looking like that's going to improve any time soon.

Hubs are still an on-going adventure. Lots of stuff is trying to be friendlier but it's fundamentally a pretty complicated concept. I've used Homeseer for a while and while it's strange sometimes, it's reliable. I'd like to have time to look into other options like HomeAssistant and Hubitat (which is basically Smartthings without the cloud). But until then HS3 cranks along without hassles.


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## spiwrx

killswitch1968 said:


> I have Lutron shades and lights in my home. They were installed 5 years ago before a lot of smart home tech was around. I mostly wanted them for the shades which were/are the best and quietest in the business.
> 
> I'm now looking at more home automation but I'd like to move away from the proprietary dealer-centric model Lutron requires. Specifically I'd like something to integrates with my existing RadioRA2 Lutron network but will also handle things like door locks, sprinklers, some IFTTT, and if possible AV abilities. I have a home theater (receiver, Nvidia Shield and Projector) I'd like to hook up for easy control under one system. I suspect I'll have to get a Harmony Remote in the end but are there any existing Home Automation products that work with RadioRA2? It seems they've heavily protected their controls.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk



A lot of us are using HomeSeer and Indigo to bring these thing together, but there are other options. You still need to have your Radio Ra base system and programming, but once it's setup you can mix it all up with your other HA enable products here. Not sure if you have Radio Ra Classic, or newer RR2, but the newer RR2 you can get your own software and program it yourself now, there are a couple hoops to jump, but most of the supporters on this thread have all done it quite easily.


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## killswitch1968

spiwrx said:


> A lot of us are using HomeSeer and Indigo to bring these thing together, but there are other options. You still need to have your Radio Ra base system and programming, but once it's setup you can mix it all up with your other HA enable products here. Not sure if you have Radio Ra Classic, or newer RR2, but the newer RR2 you can get your own software and program it yourself now, there are a couple hoops to jump, but most of the supporters on this thread have all done it quite easily.


Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am considering HomeSeer but it looks like no matter what I pick I'll have to have some control over my RadioRA2 system. I have a CONNECT-BDG2 box for the RadioRA2 (mostly controls light) which controls the "Main Repeater" box which controls my blinds. I have had a great deal of trouble finding either RadioRA2 Essentials or Inclusive. The closest I've come is this site: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/Overview.aspx and I don't even know if I'm on the right track there. How do I get access to at least Essentials, because right now all I have is the Lutron Connect app which offers little in terms of tweaking/configuring.


----------



## rapamatic

killswitch1968 said:


> Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am considering HomeSeer but it looks like no matter what I pick I'll have to have some control over my RadioRA2 system. I have a CONNECT-BDG2 box for the RadioRA2 (mostly controls light) which controls the "Main Repeater" box which controls my blinds. I have had a great deal of trouble finding either RadioRA2 Essentials or Inclusive. The closest I've come is this site: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/Overview.aspx and I don't even know if I'm on the right track there. How do I get access to at least Essentials, because right now all I have is the Lutron Connect app which offers little in terms of tweaking/configuring.



http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3682540d_RA2 Qual L1 BLAST.PDF





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## spiwrx

killswitch1968 said:


> Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am considering HomeSeer but it looks like no matter what I pick I'll have to have some control over my RadioRA2 system. I have a CONNECT-BDG2 box for the RadioRA2 (mostly controls light) which controls the "Main Repeater" box which controls my blinds. I have had a great deal of trouble finding either RadioRA2 Essentials or Inclusive. The closest I've come is this site: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/Overview.aspx and I don't even know if I'm on the right track there. How do I get access to at least Essentials, because right now all I have is the Lutron Connect app which offers little in terms of tweaking/configuring.


Basically you need to do some training and they will give you the software. It's probably way back in this thread, but for the benefit of some people just joining the thread, Lutron will give you the "Essentials" or "L1" software for free by completing some online or in person training (see below). The training will get you up to speed on all the devices and answer most of your questions before they come up as well as obviously teaching you the software. It's really simple, and you could probably figure it out on your own, but the software is free at this level and entitles you to future updates as well. If you exceed the limitations of Essentials / L1 software or are using a few of the parts not available in Essentials L1, you need the "Inclusive" or "L2" Software. This is another training, but it's paid. Find out from your local Lutron distributor, they will be able to help you get in the training, might be able to offset the cost with some of their marketing funds, or may have other solutions for you. Most of you won't need L2, but if you exceed 100 devices or want some of the L2 exclusive devices, you will need it. 


Probably says on the document he linked to above, but you can sign up for online training here:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCI/Online.aspx


If you are near one of their "Experience Centers" they likely offer a class in person. You local Lutron distributor may also offer classes, Call you local center or distributor for their Schedule. I highly encourage this if you are near one, not only do they treat you pretty well you will benefit from others in the class as well. 
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCI/ExperienceCenter.aspx


----------



## spiwrx

So my alarm clock died, or my wife hated it and sabotaged it while I was out of town, but I ended up replacing it with the Echo Show. This thing is awesome, and looks like it could replace my tabletop keypad as well. One more thing off of my night stand. Still getting use to it, but so far I'm really happy with it, just thought I would share. I need to get into the "routines" and see if I can make some of my other lights come on with my normal daily alarm as well. 

Also, at some point Alexa app added devices, I swear it was previously just Scenes, anyway I like that I am able so tell her to send a dimmer to 50% now. Probably old news to some of you. But I'm only looking at the app again after getting this "Echo Show".


----------



## rapamatic

Is there any way to activate scenes or control loads from the show without using voice? Yelling at Alexa in the bedroom might be a deal killer...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## momoaz

+1 for the training. Its goes fast you get a good view of the product line for Radio RA2 and why its so affective. Also you get software training and software upon completion.


----------



## njmike

spiwrx said:


> killswitch1968 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am considering HomeSeer but it looks like no matter what I pick I'll have to have some control over my RadioRA2 system. I have a CONNECT-BDG2 box for the RadioRA2 (mostly controls light) which controls the "Main Repeater" box which controls my blinds. I have had a great deal of trouble finding either RadioRA2 Essentials or Inclusive. The closest I've come is this site: http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Service-Support/Pages/Technical/Overview.aspx and I don't even know if I'm on the right track there. How do I get access to at least Essentials, because right now all I have is the Lutron Connect app which offers little in terms of tweaking/configuring.
> 
> 
> 
> Basically you need to do some training and they will give you the software. It's probably way back in this thread, but for the benefit of some people just joining the thread, Lutron will give you the "Essentials" or "L1" software for free by completing some online or in person training (see below). The training will get you up to speed on all the devices and answer most of your questions before they come up as well as obviously teaching you the software. It's really simple, and you could probably figure it out on your own, but the software is free at this level and entitles you to future updates as well. If you exceed the limitations of Essentials / L1 software or are using a few of the parts not available in Essentials L1, you need the "Inclusive" or "L2" Software. This is another training, but it's paid. Find out from your local Lutron distributor, they will be able to help you get in the training, might be able to offset the cost with some of their marketing funds, or may have other solutions for you. Most of you won't need L2, but if you exceed 100 devices or want some of the L2 exclusive devices, you will need it.
> 
> 
> Probably says on the document he linked to above, but you can sign up for online training here:
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCI/Online.aspx
> 
> 
> If you are near one of their "Experience Centers" they likely offer a class in person. You local Lutron distributor may also offer classes, Call you local center or distributor for their Schedule. I highly encourage this if you are near one, not only do they treat you pretty well you will benefit from others in the class as well.
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCI/ExperienceCenter.aspx
Click to expand...

One thing to watch out for is that your original installer probably had Inclusive and probably used Shared Scenes. That, (or maybe even just the fact that he or she saved your project in Inclusive), means that you won’t be able to open the project in Essentials. 

If that happens, maybe your installer or your local distributor will be willing to upgrade your Essentials software to Inclusive by generating an upgrade key for you. 

You will still need to take the L1 training to get access to the Essentials software. It shouldn’t take more than a day, and I found it interesting and fun to learn.


----------



## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> Is there any way to activate scenes or control loads from the show without using voice? Yelling at Alexa in the bedroom might be a deal killer...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





I get that!! I think so. When I had it on the screen it was a list of devices, and I could touch them on the screen. But I don't remember how I accessed that menu. I'll try again when I get home tonight. 
I'm only 3 days in and there is no manual, just been trial, error, & google so far....


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## spiwrx

Not Radio Ra 2, but the Caseta stuff has really gained traction with smaller projects and DIY. CES 2019, just announced fan speed control for Caseta...


Love the CNET headline: "
*"Lutron's new Caseta smart switch controls dumb ceiling fans at CES 2019"*






https://www.cnet.com/news/lutron-new-caseta-smart-switch-controls-your-dumb-ceiling-fans-ces-2019/


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## schalliol

Good point on Caseta. I am a bit concerned RR2 hasn’t really seen attention from Lutron on the hardware, software or partnership side in quite awhile.


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## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> Is there any way to activate scenes or control loads from the show without using voice? Yelling at Alexa in the bedroom might be a deal killer...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, Yes. On my Amazon Alexa Echo Show, whatever it's called.... You just swipe down and you get a few options. Maybe more if you have other things, but my setup is relatively simple. 









Code:




On the Echo Show, if you swipe down on the screen (without speaking to it) I get 4 buttons:
"Home" "Alarm" "Lights & More" "Routines" Also there is a slider brightness adjustment.


----------



## spiwrx

I had some images but I guess it stripped them.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> Good point on Caseta. I am a bit concerned RR2 hasn’t really seen attention from Lutron on the hardware, software or partnership side in quite awhile.


Yes, I agree. From watching this company over the 20yrs of my career it's not a bad thing though. We all have our wish list for more.... (controlled outlet, Fan/Light (single device), dimmer module, integrated repeater/connect bridge, in case you are listening Lutron!!) The product is still solid compared to alternatives, I just got another convert customer on Wednesday, loves HA, hated his last experience, & ready for something solid. It's definitely that. Investing what a lot of us have in HA, I glad to not have issues with mine (except for the ones I've created ). And I love the fact that new products like the "Show" discussed above I was able to get working with my RR2 in minutes.

Trust me I know this thread gets some attention from them, I get some indirect feedback occasionally.


----------



## dgage

Is there any compatibility of Caseta devices in RdiioRa2 or are they completely siloed? I’m definitely not happy with the lack of investment to RR2 but I also don’t see anything else on the market I’d switch to in a new house. Like you, I’ll just have to add additional devices from other systems to round out the limitations of RR2.


----------



## jjwinterberg

spiwrx said:


> Yes, I agree. From watching this company over the 20yrs of my career it's not a bad thing though. We all have our wish list for more.... (controlled outlet, Fan/Light (single device), dimmer module, integrated repeater/connect bridge, in case you are listening Lutron!!) The product is still solid compared to alternatives, I just got another convert customer on Wednesday, loves HA, hated his last experience, & ready for something solid. It's definitely that. Investing what a lot of us have in HA, I glad to not have issues with mine (except for the ones I've created ). And I love the fact that new products like the "Show" discussed above I was able to get working with my RR2 in minutes.
> 
> Trust me I know this thread gets some attention from them, I get some indirect feedback occasionally.


Well said! I'd like to foot stomp the *controlled outlet* with you. Hopefully Lutron does read these threads.


----------



## rapamatic

I will have to play around with my Echo Show tonight. The swipe up/swipe down sounds simple enough - just not very discoverable... I’m just so used to only yelling at Alexa. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## killswitch1968

njmike said:


> One thing to watch out for is that your original installer probably had Inclusive and probably used Shared Scenes. That, (or maybe even just the fact that he or she saved your project in Inclusive), means that you won’t be able to open the project in Essentials.
> 
> If that happens, maybe your installer or your local distributor will be willing to upgrade your Essentials software to Inclusive by generating an upgrade key for you.
> 
> You will still need to take the L1 training to get access to the Essentials software. It shouldn’t take more than a day, and I found it interesting and fun to learn.


Thanks @njmike . I got through the training, got the Essentials software, and it won't let me extract the project because it needs Radio RA 2 12.0.1, and my Essentials version is only 11.6.0! I know my installer had Radio Ra Inclusive, is there anyway for me to extract this or even edit it in Essentials or will I have to reprogram the system from scratch and push it to the Main Repeater?


----------



## njmike

killswitch1968 said:


> njmike said:
> 
> 
> 
> One thing to watch out for is that your original installer probably had Inclusive and probably used Shared Scenes. That, (or maybe even just the fact that he or she saved your project in Inclusive), means that you won’t be able to open the project in Essentials.
> 
> If that happens, maybe your installer or your local distributor will be willing to upgrade your Essentials software to Inclusive by generating an upgrade key for you.
> 
> You will still need to take the L1 training to get access to the Essentials software. It shouldn’t take more than a day, and I found it interesting and fun to learn.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @njmike . I got through the training, got the Essentials software, and it won't let me extract the project because it needs Radio RA 2 12.0.1, and my Essentials version is only 11.6.0! I know my installer had Radio Ra Inclusive, is there anyway for me to extract this or even edit it in Essentials or will I have to reprogram the system from scratch and push it to the Main Repeater?
Click to expand...

Look for v12. You are entitled based on completing the training. Look for it on MyLutron. Not sure Essentials can extract a project though. Do you know anyone that has it?


----------



## Bigus

The link after training directs to 11.6. I called lutron, they seemed stunned that it isn't the latest version.

Create a mylutron account. Under the service and support tab there is an option for “Design & Configuration Software” link in the third column. Click on “RadioRA 2 12.0 with prerequisites”.


----------



## killswitch1968

Bigus said:


> The link after training directs to 11.6. I called lutron, they seemed stunned that it isn't the latest version.
> 
> Create a mylutron account. Under the service and support tab there is an option for “Design & Configuration Software” link in the third column. Click on “RadioRA 2 12.0 with prerequisites”.


Hi @Bigus, I'm not sure how the Training website ( https://lutron.learn.taleo.net/ ) and the mylutron site ( http://www.lutron.com/ ) are connected, as they each have their own separate logins. When I go to the MyLutron page after creating an account there is no option to download Radio Ra 2, just the Lutron Designer+ application. Do I have to enter my Lutron account number in my profile? I haven't been given one and no where in the lutron.learn site is there an account number found. 

EDIT: I called Lutron, apparently after completing the module they sent me an email to attach the LCI account to the MyLutron account, everything is working now and I was able to extract the program!


----------



## Bigus

I called too... wasn't certain if that was necessary or not. I guess they had to link the accounts. Lights are their forte, not web management!


----------



## killswitch1968

Ok I finally have access to my program, was already able to set a timeclock for my shades, worked out really well.

But I'm still stuck with my original question; during my training they talked a lot about 3rd party integration via serial RS232 and via IP/Wifi, but without information how to go about doing that. If I did pursue a SmartThings/Wink/HomeSeer system, how do I a) know that it can talk to the Main Repeater and b) figure how to set it up?


----------



## socalsharky

killswitch1968 said:


> Ok I finally have access to my program, was already able to set a timeclock for my shades, worked out really well.
> 
> But I'm still stuck with my original question; during my training they talked a lot about 3rd party integration via serial RS232 and via IP/Wifi, but without information how to go about doing that. If I did pursue a SmartThings/Wink/HomeSeer system, how do I a) know that it can talk to the Main Repeater and b) figure how to set it up?



I have Radio RA2 and Homeseer (HS3). To answer your questions:


a) if the RA2 Main Repeater and your HS3 controller are on the same network, they can talk to each other. You just need the IP addresses. They communicate via Ethernet or WiFi.

b) it's very easy to set up with HS3. You need to be running the HS3 software on the controller that you choose (either a computer or a Raspberry Pi) and you need to buy the plug in that allows HS3 to talk to RA2. The plug in costs about $35. Once you add the plug in, HS3 will identify all of your RA2 devices and import them into HS3. Then you can create events, triggers, etc., from within HS3. I assume that SmartThings and Wink are similar, but you should verify. I went with HS3 because it is hosted locally, and is not cloud dependent at all. If your internet goes down, you can still control your devices. Also, the lag is non-existent.


----------



## thebland

I have recently installed a RadioRA2 system in a new build. ~ 50 switches / components. Really, really nice looking. Haven’t gotten to scenes yet but estheticslly nice. 

Ordering some Lutron Shades (hardwired) and they look to be nice, but wow are they expensive! 

Can’t wait to start tweaking once all is programmed!


----------



## spiwrx

dgage said:


> Is there any compatibility of Caseta devices in RdiioRa2 or are they completely siloed? I’m definitely not happy with the lack of investment to RR2 but I also don’t see anything else on the market I’d switch to in a new house. Like you, I’ll just have to add additional devices from other systems to round out the limitations of RR2.


They added the Caseta Fan Speed Control to Radio Ra Select, not sure why, because we already had the RR2 fan speed control in select. They also add some of the LMJ modules to Select. 

Not sure why they are trying to blur the lines, maybe for a little more inexpensive fan speed control. The LMJ's in RR2 require inclusive software, so it's interesting that they just added them to Select.


----------



## spiwrx

killswitch1968 said:


> Ok I finally have access to my program, was already able to set a timeclock for my shades, worked out really well.
> 
> But I'm still stuck with my original question; during my training they talked a lot about 3rd party integration via serial RS232 and via IP/Wifi, but without information how to go about doing that. If I did pursue a SmartThings/Wink/HomeSeer system, how do I a) know that it can talk to the Main Repeater and b) figure how to set it up?


This was answered already, but to add, there are some documents you can find through your myLutron home page click on Software & Support > Technical Ref. Guides (left side menu) > Lutron QS integration protocols. If you are using products like HomeSeer, it should figure this out for you, but if you need to edit it, or manually write it, you'll find some tips here.


----------



## Mathelo

*New Install with heat and control requirements*

I've been watching this thread for along time now and finally getting around to installing a Lutron RadioRA2 system (not yet purchased). Initially this will be on a small scale, just a bathroom. I'm mostly interested in the scene setting capabilities as the bathroom has 5 separate light circuits; four are LED and one is incandescent. All will be dimmable except for one LED night light circuit. 

I'll also have an exhaust fan and a supplemental heater installed inline in the ductwork - a HotPod. I'm trying to decide if there is any utility in using the RadioRA2 to control the heater or the fan. My initial conclusion is that it isn't worth the expense. 

In the case of the heater, it requires a 24 volt thermostat. The thermostat that comes with the heater will not be used. It is fugly but I also need to include a count down time limiter. This is intended to be a booster heater and I don't want it to stay on past a certain amount of time - 30 to 60 minutes. Can the Lutron HVAC kit be programmed to always go off after some preset time? Can't I also do this with something like a NEST or Ecobee thermostat?

For the exhaust fan, the control requirements are pretty simple. Set it to countdown for some period of time. Any benefit to controlling this with RadioRA2?

Why am I going this whole house approach? I currently have lighting for a family room, kitchen, and dining room controlled with a Lightolier system installed about 15 years ago. It is still going strong but it lacks the capabilities of modern systems like RadioRA2. I'm planning on replacing it with RadioRA2 in the next 24 months.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Louis


----------



## wkearney99

I dearly wish Lutron made something like the Maestro Fan Timer for any of their automation lines (they don't). So it comes down to how you expect to make use of the fan, and what you'll be adding automation-wise. 

Yes, any group of Ra2 devices can be configured in a roll-back, based on the last time any device was changed. Go into a room, turn on this, that or another device and if they're part of a rollback the timer will start counting down. But only when no other activity on devices within the group has happened. 

I also find it useful to put a hybrid keypad (buttons with a dimmer built-in) at the entrance/exit area of a space. The bottom-most button always gets configured as "all off" for that area. Handy in the master bath... but with one exception and that's the exhaust fan. You really want a fan to stay running for up to a half-hour after a shower/tub or other high-humidity source has been operating. Do this and you greatly cut down on any chance of mold/mildew. Leave it out of the 'all off' but part of the rollback and it use an 8ANS Ra2 switch to control it. The benefit would be able to be sure the fan gets turned off. Otherwise use a non-Ra2 Maestro count-down switch. 

If you've got five circuits, how are the wall switches arranged for them now? Any plans on changing that?

Personally I don't use any of Lutron's thermostats. They're just not that great and there's plenty of other good ones that have better automation options. 

If you're doing any work to the floor in the bathroom, we've been quite pleased with in-floor electric radiant mat under the tiles. Well worth the expense, and better than trying to heat up the air when it's really just the feet that need the warmth.


----------



## wkearney99

I should add that rollback wasn't an available feature when we implemented our Ra2 system. Otherwise I'd probably have gone with an 8ANS for the fan instead of the MA-T51 timer.

There are limits on how a rollback and a motion sensor can interact. I seem to recall that you could not combine the two. I don't know if that's still true or not. As in, have a rollback on let's say a vanity, ceiling and fan, but also have a motion sensor. Motion sensors have two scenes, occupancy and vacancy and they don't have to control the same devices. As in, occupancy turns on the vanity light, but vacancy turns off the vanity and the ceiling (in case someone turned it on). I don't know if a rollback could be added that would handle all three or not. Worst-case you'd put the fan in it's own rollback group and it'd automatically turn itself off after the set timer counts down.


----------



## dgage

I have Lutron RadioRa2 and I have a similar situation in my master bath as well but I’ll share with you what I use in the main floor half-bath. I also use the timer below in my master bath for the exhaust fan.

I use this for the bathroom fans so they don’t stay on too long though I should point out this is a completely manual control. The one below is up to 30 min but they also have 1 upto60 min.
https://www.intermatic.com/en/timer-controls/electronic-countdown-timers/ei200

And here is what I use in the main floor half-bath lights to “automate” the lights. It is a pseudo-automatic occupancy sensor built into the switch and can be manually controlled as well. We also use this in the laundry room. 
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Product...cy-Vacancy/MaestroOccVacSensors/overview.aspx

Not sure these will help but wanted to give you a cheaper alternative for areas that may not need full automation. I haven’t felt the need to change the main half-bath from its pseudo-automatic control.


----------



## Lindahl

dgage said:


> And here is what I use in the main floor half-bath lights to “automate” the lights. It is a pseudo-automatic occupancy sensor built into the switch and can be manually controlled as well. We also use this in the laundry room.
> 
> http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Product...cy-Vacancy/MaestroOccVacSensors/overview.aspx.




Why not just use the same device in switch format for the fan? You can adjust the fan so it goes off after X minutes since last movement?


----------



## dgage

Lindahl said:


> Why not just use the same device in switch format for the fan? You can adjust the fan so it goes off after X minutes since last movement?


Because we don’t always need to use the fan in the downstairs bathroom and upstairs in the master bathroom, sometimes we need the fan on for personal business and we need more time when taking a shower. But no reason it wouldn’t work as you state though I like the flexibility of setting the time as needed.


----------



## wkearney99

There's a fine line between want/need when it comes to bathroom exhaust fans. Often over-ridden by the WAF... so don't discount that.

If the fan is quiet you're less prone to worry about running it. Which is great for eliminating mold/mildew risks. But then you can't use it to mask bathroom sounds. I'll trade less work/expense for me over hiding the sound of normal bodily functions. Heavier interior doors and bathroom wall insulation has largely reduced the noise concern. That required planning ahead during new construction. 

With modern houses there's also the potential complication of needing make up air, to avoid causing problems with fuel-fired devices (water heater, dryer, chimney, etc). Not a big concern for a lot of existing housing, but not something to ignore either.

Ra2 has fantastic motion sensors. It's FAR BETTER to use the separate ones than one on the switch itself. The ones on the switch are good but give you zero options for fine tuning detection. I've got all three kinds, corner, wall and ceiling in various places around the house. Each has been moved at least 4 times before finding the 'sweet spot' for detecting exactly the right desired motion. Not walk-by traffic from an adjacent hallway, or leaving someone in the dark because they were out of line-of-sight off the sensor. Wall-switch sensors are notorious for this. Where they're placed is usually only good for detecting entry... not continued use in the space.

Our master bath is a pretty large space, with a separate WC and walk-in shower. Which makes automating the space with motion control somewhat problematic. I've not put a motion sensor in the master bath because there's not enough predictable use to make it work with total satisfaction. Early morning/late night... needs entirely different lighting than other times... until it doesn't (like crack of dawn departures for vacations). No sense lighting up the WC if someone's heading in for just the shower, or vice-versa. So rather than setting myself up for failure, I've chosen not to use motion sensing in there at all. Leave the use controlled by easy to access wall switches and the non-automated fan timer.

Sometimes the hardest part is resisting automation because it's going to make the system more annoying than helpful.


----------



## Lindahl

dgage said:


> Because we don’t always need to use the fan in the downstairs bathroom and upstairs in the master bathroom, sometimes we need the fan on for personal business and we need more time when taking a shower. But no reason it wouldn’t work as you state though I like the flexibility of setting the time as needed.


That's the whole point. The user doesn't need to 'set a time'. The vacancy sensor turns the fan off X minutes *after you leave*. Just configure the time to 15 minutes, and who cares how long your shower or business takes? The user doesn't need to think about anything, they just press the button to turn on the fan and they're done?


----------



## Mathelo

wkearney99 said:


> I dearly wish Lutron made something like the Maestro Fan Timer for any of their automation lines (they don't). So it comes down to how you expect to make use of the fan, and what you'll be adding automation-wise..


I simply want the fan on for removing humidity during and after bathing, and for other "smelly" activities. 



wkearney99 said:


> I also find it useful to put a hybrid keypad (buttons with a dimmer built-in) at the entrance/exit area of a space. The bottom-most button always gets configured as "all off" for that area. Handy in the master bath... but with one exception and that's the exhaust fan. You really want a fan to stay running for up to a half-hour after a shower/tub or other high-humidity source has been operating. Do this and you greatly cut down on any chance of mold/mildew. Leave it out of the 'all off' but part of the rollback and it use an 8ANS Ra2 switch to control it. The benefit would be able to be sure the fan gets turned off. Otherwise use a non-Ra2 Maestro count-down switch.


What kind of switch is an 8ANS Ra2? Is it simply an on/off switch or is there something more to it?



wkearney99 said:


> If you've got five circuits, how are the wall switches arranged for them now? Any plans on changing that?


Right now I have a 4 gang box next to the door that I was planning on having the hybrid keypad, fan control, Lutron thermostat, and 4th opening currently unassigned. On the other side of the door in a closet space I am installing all the switches, include floor heat thermostat, that aren't used on any regular basis. None of this is so fixed in place at this point that I can't change it except for the floor heat. Those wires aren't moving since they are now under tile. If you are thinking about something specific here, please share. 



wkearney99 said:


> Personally I don't use any of Lutron's thermostats. They're just not that great and there's plenty of other good ones that have better automation options.


Okay, that is good to know. Do you have any specific suggestions? And again, I want it to turnoff if no one is in the bathroom. Would an occupancy sensor be good for this?



wkearney99 said:


> If you're doing any work to the floor in the bathroom, we've been quite pleased with in-floor electric radiant mat under the tiles. Well worth the expense, and better than trying to heat up the air when it's really just the feet that need the warmth.


So you may have now guessed that I'm planning both. Everything I've read says the in-floor electric radiant mats are really only for getting the tiles warm and not much more. I'm still finishing the tiles so haven't had a chance to test it yet. I could hold off on installing the heater and see if we actually need it but I do like a warm bathroom first thing in the morning. Also, are there any Ra2 devices that can control this in floor heating too?

Louis


----------



## Mathelo

wkearney99 said:


> There's a fine line between want/need when it comes to bathroom exhaust fans. Often over-ridden by the WAF... so don't discount that.
> 
> If the fan is quiet you're less prone to worry about running it. Which is great for eliminating mold/mildew risks. But then you can't use it to mask bathroom sounds. I'll trade less work/expense for me over hiding the sound of normal bodily functions. Heavier interior doors and bathroom wall insulation has largely reduced the noise concern. That required planning ahead during new construction.
> 
> With modern houses there's also the potential complication of needing make up air, to avoid causing problems with fuel-fired devices (water heater, dryer, chimney, etc). Not a big concern for a lot of existing housing, but not something to ignore either.


Old house so make up air is not an issue. Fan is a remote Fantech, so quiet. Walls are insulated to deal with noise. We like quiet. 



wkearney99 said:


> Ra2 has fantastic motion sensors. It's FAR BETTER to use the separate ones than one on the switch itself. The ones on the switch are good but give you zero options for fine tuning detection. I've got all three kinds, corner, wall and ceiling in various places around the house. Each has been moved at least 4 times before finding the 'sweet spot' for detecting exactly the right desired motion. Not walk-by traffic from an adjacent hallway, or leaving someone in the dark because they were out of line-of-sight off the sensor. Wall-switch sensors are notorious for this. Where they're placed is usually only good for detecting entry... not continued use in the space.


Floor plan attached. So I only need the fan to come on when someone is bathing or leaving a deposit in the toilet. The toilet is behind a knee wall so it may be possible to use a motion detector to determine when someone is using the toilet although I'm doubting it is possible to distinguish between urinating or leaving a more substantial deposit. The tub/shower could have a motion sensor but it would need to be a close proximity detector, as in when you get into the tub. Would a humidity detector be more effective? Is there such a thing for this purpose?



wkearney99 said:


> Our master bath is a pretty large space, with a separate WC and walk-in shower. Which makes automating the space with motion control somewhat problematic. I've not put a motion sensor in the master bath because there's not enough predictable use to make it work with total satisfaction. Early morning/late night... needs entirely different lighting than other times... until it doesn't (like crack of dawn departures for vacations). No sense lighting up the WC if someone's heading in for just the shower, or vice-versa. So rather than setting myself up for failure, I've chosen not to use motion sensing in there at all. Leave the use controlled by easy to access wall switches and the non-automated fan timer.
> 
> Sometimes the hardest part is resisting automation because it's going to make the system more annoying than helpful.


Yep, that is the balance i'm trying to find.

Thanks again for your replies.

Louis


----------



## wkearney99

Part numbers explain what something is, likewise how it was worded. To switch something in Ra2 you'd use an 8ANS not one of the various dimmers. Now, some of the dimmers do support having their programming changed to not act as dimmers when operated, but in general if you have a fixed load or something motorized (like a fan) you should not use a dimmer on it.

Correct, the dilemma is shower or toilet use, or both. I find it's better to leave the shower's activation NOT controlled by motion. If people want the fan running, let them make the choice. With regular occupants it's a matter of learning "run the fan if you take a shower". But they know it'll automatically turn off after a certain time, in my case because the T51 has a series of LEDs on it and markings that show the time. But now that rollbacks exist it would be possible to set one up to do sort of the same thing. That is, automatically turn off, but always after the same duration. With the T51 there's on on-switch-face way to change the interval. With a rollback it'd have to be preset. Which might leave it running longer than desired. My fans likewise are all in-line Fantech units and are very quiet. So quiet they don't provide 'covering noise' nor annoy us when they're still running. 

The downside to the T51 is no automation so if anyone leaves a fan fully-on (not timed) then it'll stay running until someone notices. Just like any old non-automated setup. The only time it happens is guests or cleaning folks double-tapping the timer control or running the timer up to the fully on position. That happens rarely enough to not make it a big deal to just look and see that the T51 isn't showing Green on the LED (which indicates full on, no timer). 

Were I installing this today (not back in 2012) I'd very likely use an 8ANS Ra2 switch instead of the T51 timers. I still could.

Humidity detection won't work if you're in an area that can actually get quite humid. We are, summers here can be 99% humidity and not be raining. We have HVAC making it unlikely it'd be an issue in the rooms. But the sensors are also potential wear/maintenance items over time. I've largely avoided bothering to use them since there are other automating options (or none, as cases may be).

I have the floor controlled by a Nuheat thermostat, their Wi-Fi model. The recovery time to raise/lower a floor is long enough that it's really best done with a schedule. I've never really checked it to see how long it truly takes to get 'warm enough'. 

If the bathroom gets cold enough to require a boost then you're the right track to be considering auxiliary heat. I don't depend on the floor mats to affect the air temperature, just the underfoot comfort. It does that nicely. They've recently released a way to control it programmatically using the online IFTTT cloud service. I use that to toggle the home/away setting for trips.


----------



## Lindahl

wkearney99 said:


> Heavier interior doors and bathroom wall insulation has largely reduced the noise concern.


I'm not sure really if that makes much of a difference. Sound finds the 'easiest' or 'weakest' entry point to escape through - this would be underneath the door. Or are you installing weather stripping and a floor bump for the bathrooms too? 



wkearney99 said:


> It's FAR BETTER to use the separate ones than one on the switch itself. The ones on the switch are good but give you zero options for fine tuning detection. I've got all three kinds, corner, wall and ceiling in various places around the house. Each has been moved at least 4 times before finding the 'sweet spot' for detecting exactly the right desired motion. Not walk-by traffic from an adjacent hallway, or leaving someone in the dark because they were out of line-of-sight off the sensor. Wall-switch sensors are notorious for this. Where they're placed is usually only good for detecting entry... not continued use in the space.


For toilets and shower fans, I really like the vacancy switches. It's not easy to predict if someone's taking a shower or doing their business, so just let them hit the physical switch, and have a vacancy sensor turn it off after X minutes of no movement.

Personally, I don't like motion-activated lights (or fans), except in a laundry room or walk-in closet (or outside security). It's not that complicated to hit a light switch to turn it on, and it outweighs the problems that get created when usage patterns don't follow the typical, and the motion-detector automation activates things in the way you don't want them to. But, that's just me. If you prefer to do things differently, so be it. For those few instances that you don't have your hands free, voice control via Google or Amazon works just fine.


----------



## Lindahl

Mathelo said:


> Floor plan attached. So I only need the fan to come on when someone is bathing or leaving a deposit in the toilet. The toilet is behind a knee wall so it may be possible to use a motion detector to determine when someone is using the toilet although I'm doubting it is possible to distinguish between urinating or leaving a more substantial deposit. The tub/shower could have a motion sensor but it would need to be a close proximity detector, as in when you get into the tub. Would a humidity detector be more effective? Is there such a thing for this purpose?




You're way over-complicating this. Just use a vacancy switch near the toilet and shower. Your floorplan looks easy to work with. The user turns it on via the switch and it automatically turns off after 'X' minutes with no movement. Play around with a motion detector to find the best placement, but you should be good to go.


----------



## wkearney99

Mathelo said:


> Floor plan attached.


Where are you planning on the switches being located?

Does the shower have a glass door?

Because from your diagram and previous comment, it looks like you've got:



ceiling
shower (two lights)
fan
toilet
vanity overhead
vanity on wall (two sconces, alongside, I'm assuming?).

That's a lot of single-gang switches to have at one position. There's also the question as to whether you're over-lighting the space. Ceiling AND ceiling over the vanity sink? Is a separate light over the toilet necessary? That's a lot of light for a small space and controlling them separately complicates both the wiring and how you'll use the space over time. Maybe lose the lights over the sink and the toilet and just have the ceiling? We have a ceiling light and about the only time it gets used is to clean the space. For daily use it's the vanities and shower (and toilet WC, of course). 

We have our controls spread around the room, adjacent to their activity. Attached is the electrical circuit diagram (more or less, there's a few positional changes that happened during rough-in). There's a single-gang at the entrance with a keypad that has a dimmer for the ceiling. The other buttons are toggle for the vanities, the shower and the toilet WC along with a toggle to the nearby master closet.

Electrical code is particular about how close you can put a wall switch to water. That's why I asked if the shower was going to be glass. You could potentially do as I've done and have a 2-gang box on the exterior wall. That would allow reducing the number of devices over by the door.

There are things like the GrafikEye and wallbox dimmers, that can concentrate several dimmers into a separate box (up to five, if I remember correctly). That could potentially reduce the wall clutter, somewhat, but then you introduce a level of "extra thinking" that has to go into using the space. As in, little buttons on the keypad vs separate paddle dimmers placed 'near' activities). I'm a big fan of not trying to be overly clever. For places like a home theater, a wallbox or grafikeye makes a lot of sense. But for a bath, where guests might be likely using it, you're want to avoid making it tedious to use when it ought to be simple.

Perhaps a wallbox tucked away somewhere nearby (is that a closet in the lower right?). And then a 3-gang on the wall. A paddle, keypad and paddle. The 1st paddle dimmer for the 'main lighting' for the room (could be the vanity sconces, not the ceiling). A keypad labeled for the others (ceiling, toilet, shower, all off) and then the fan. This way someone coming into the room is going to see/feel the first paddle and get lighting. Then see the keypad and be able to read for more and then find the fan. Pretty simple. The trick would being finding a place for the other load controls ceiling, toilet, vanity overhead and shower). The keypad itself can be a dimmer, but then you'd still have the rest. 

I am NOT a fan of playing games like putting a bunch of single-gang dimmers hidden in a closet somewhere else. That's just ugly and presents a whole range of potential hassles later). Best to have as much wiring in the room as possible. Yours is one situation where having a wallbox gang dimmer would be worth considering. The downside to a wallbox is price and versatility, as their dimmers are built-in, not separate units. Which could present LED compatibility issues in the future. For a multi-purpose lighting scenario like this one I could see where hiding a 3-gang in a nearby location might not be a heinous offense.

Also understand that a downside to using a keypad for control is it complicates having manual dimmer adjustment. The keypads do have a raise/lower button set, and that will change the last pressed load. Which could be annoying if you want different manual dimming levels all the time. I like having the shower dimmer control near it because I don't usually like it BRIGHT AS THE SUN in there. My wife, however, does (along with it nearly hot enough to boil your skin off). So having it controlled by a keypad all the way over at the door would be annoying.


----------



## Mathelo

Lindahl said:


> You're way over-complicating this. Just use a vacancy switch near the toilet and shower. Your floorplan looks easy to work with. The user turns it on via the switch and it automatically turns off after 'X' minutes with no movement. Play around with a motion detector to find the best placement, but you should be good to go.


Ah, so a switch to turn in on and the occupancy sensor to turn it off? Am I understanding that correctly?


----------



## wkearney99

What I think he's saying is the Lutron Ra2 sensors have two modes. One for detecting that someone's present and the other for detecting that nobody's been around 'for a while'. You do not have to use both modes. Nor do both modes have to control the same devices.

The downside to motion detection with showers is curtains or glass often complicate detection. This leads to false triggers... leaving the wife in the dark in the shower. Which is a fun joke.... once. Then you run afoul of what's collectively known as the Wife Acceptance Factor. Annoy the wife too often with automation screw ups and you're in trouble.


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## wkearney99

_(I was composing this reply before the other post came up)_



Lindahl said:


> Personally, I don't like motion-activated lights (or fans), except in a laundry room or walk-in closet (or outside security). It's not that complicated to hit a light switch to turn it on, and it outweighs the problems that get created when usage patterns don't follow the typical, and the motion-detector automation activates things in the way you don't want them to. But, that's just me. If you prefer to do things differently, so be it. For those few instances that you don't have your hands free, voice control via Google or Amazon works just fine.


The downside to voice control is night time use. As in, having to speak loud enough to have voice detection and response, is also likely loud enough to be waking someone else. It's a factor to consider before expecting voice control to cover everything. We do make heavy use of it for dining and cooking situations. "Alexa, turn on|off breakfast table" happens several times a day. Motion control would be hilariously useless in our large open-floorplace family room/kitchen/casual dining space. But it'd be downright annoying to have to use it all the time for a powder room, laundry or master closet spaces. 

Unintended motion activation is indeed an annoyance. Lutron's wireless sensors and some 3M commandstrip tapes are fantastic for finding just the right spot to detect both someone entering AND when there's nobody's left in the space. Especially since occupancy can turn on one set of lights, while vacancy can turn off those and more. We use one in the rec room. Brings up the ceiling cans when kids are there, but is programmed to turn off the cans, the table lamps, the wall wash sconces, the lights over the pool table, etc. This way anyone coming in the room gets light... but when they've all left the system cleans up after them. 

It also took a while before I found just the right point on the wall to put motion sensors for the main level powder room and basement full bath (off the rec room). 3M's picture hanging style of strips are fantastic for this. In that you can put the velcro-like halves in more than one location and go back/forth or make some placement/rotation adjustments (for ceiling units) without peeling/wasting a whole 'nother strip.


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## Lindahl

Mathelo said:


> Ah, so a switch to turn in on and the occupancy sensor to turn it off? Am I understanding that correctly?


When placed in that mode, it's called a vacancy sensor, but yes, that's right. It's an all-in-one device, and cheap too:
http://www.lutron.com/en-US/pages/S...x?modelNumber=MS-OPS6M2-DV&&SECTION=Documents
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-...r-Multi-Location-White-MS-VPS5MH-WH/203647775




wkearney99 said:


> What I think he's saying is the Lutron Ra2 sensors have two modes. One for detecting that someone's present and the other for detecting that nobody's been around 'for a while'. You do not have to use both modes. Nor do both modes have to control the same devices.


No, it's just a simple all-in-one device with configurable modes and timings. Has nothing to do with RA2 or other home automation gimicks.


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## Mathelo

wkearney99 said:


> Where are you planning on the switches being located?
> 
> Does the shower have a glass door?
> 
> Because from your diagram and previous comment, it looks like you've got:
> 
> 
> 
> ceiling
> shower (two lights)
> fan
> toilet
> vanity overhead
> vanity on wall (two sconces, alongside, I'm assuming?).
> 
> That's a lot of single-gang switches to have at one position. There's also the question as to whether you're over-lighting the space. Ceiling AND ceiling over the vanity sink? Is a separate light over the toilet necessary? That's a lot of light for a small space and controlling them separately complicates both the wiring and how you'll use the space over time. Maybe lose the lights over the sink and the toilet and just have the ceiling? We have a ceiling light and about the only time it gets used is to clean the space. For daily use it's the vanities and shower (and toilet WC, of course).
> 
> We have our controls spread around the room, adjacent to their activity. Attached is the electrical circuit diagram (more or less, there's a few positional changes that happened during rough-in). There's a single-gang at the entrance with a keypad that has a dimmer for the ceiling. The other buttons are toggle for the vanities, the shower and the toilet WC along with a toggle to the nearby master closet.
> 
> Electrical code is particular about how close you can put a wall switch to water. That's why I asked if the shower was going to be glass. You could potentially do as I've done and have a 2-gang box on the exterior wall. That would allow reducing the number of devices over by the door.
> 
> There are things like the GrafikEye and wallbox dimmers, that can concentrate several dimmers into a separate box (up to five, if I remember correctly). That could potentially reduce the wall clutter, somewhat, but then you introduce a level of "extra thinking" that has to go into using the space. As in, little buttons on the keypad vs separate paddle dimmers placed 'near' activities). I'm a big fan of not trying to be overly clever. For places like a home theater, a wallbox or grafikeye makes a lot of sense. But for a bath, where guests might be likely using it, you're want to avoid making it tedious to use when it ought to be simple.
> 
> Perhaps a wallbox tucked away somewhere nearby (is that a closet in the lower right?). And then a 3-gang on the wall. A paddle, keypad and paddle. The 1st paddle dimmer for the 'main lighting' for the room (could be the vanity sconces, not the ceiling). A keypad labeled for the others (ceiling, toilet, shower, all off) and then the fan. This way someone coming into the room is going to see/feel the first paddle and get lighting. Then see the keypad and be able to read for more and then find the fan. Pretty simple. The trick would being finding a place for the other load controls ceiling, toilet, vanity overhead and shower). The keypad itself can be a dimmer, but then you'd still have the rest.
> 
> I am NOT a fan of playing games like putting a bunch of single-gang dimmers hidden in a closet somewhere else. That's just ugly and presents a whole range of potential hassles later). Best to have as much wiring in the room as possible. Yours is one situation where having a wallbox gang dimmer would be worth considering. The downside to a wallbox is price and versatility, as their dimmers are built-in, not separate units. Which could present LED compatibility issues in the future. For a multi-purpose lighting scenario like this one I could see where hiding a 3-gang in a nearby location might not be a heinous offense.
> 
> Also understand that a downside to using a keypad for control is it complicates having manual dimmer adjustment. The keypads do have a raise/lower button set, and that will change the last pressed load. Which could be annoying if you want different manual dimming levels all the time. I like having the shower dimmer control near it because I don't usually like it BRIGHT AS THE SUN in there. My wife, however, does (along with it nearly hot enough to boil your skin off). So having it controlled by a keypad all the way over at the door would be annoying.



The floor plan is not entirely accurate from a lighting perspective.

There are 2 sconces over the vanity on either side of the mirror. These are T10 incandescent.

There is a recessed niche behind the toilet that has a Juno 2" recessed LED accent light. So not actually over the toilet but to graze the glass tile in the niche and what ever art piece my wife plans to put there.

The main light is an integrated Edge lighting - https://www.edgelighting.com/ - that runs the full length of the room. This thing is wonderful but was a pain to install. 

I've not yet installed lighting over the tub but I'll either install 2-3 of the Juno 2" cans or something similar to the Edge. Juno has just come out with an integrated LED strip that I'm liking and should give me a nice grazing effect on the glass tile that is installed.

And there is a night light on the front edge of the vanity.

So from a pure lumens available perspective this is way more than is needed but I don't approach lighting this way. I layer and put the light where I need it but scene control becomes really important.

Most of the switches are in the area to the right when you enter the room. They will largely be out of sight. 

I need to think a bit more on your other suggestions.

Thanks!

Louis


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## Lindahl

wkearney99 said:


> It also took a while before I found just the right point on the wall to put motion sensors for the main level powder room and basement full bath (off the rec room). 3M's picture hanging style of strips are fantastic for this. In that you can put the velcro-like halves in more than one location and go back/forth or make some placement/rotation adjustments (for ceiling units) without peeling/wasting a whole 'nother strip.


Is it really that difficult to hit a light switch going in and out of a bathroom (or any room)? Fans, I get, since you want them running after you leave the room. I do enjoy lighting "automation" (not really automation per se) for setting scenes like 'relax', 'cooking' 'entertain', and for waking up and shutting down the house for 'goodnight' and 'good morning' and 'home' and 'away', but I just use hard buttons for all of this, since, again, it's not that hard to hit a switch. And if I have my hands full, again voice control works well.

As for motion-detection activation of lights vs. voice control - I'm not sure how quiet you need to be in circumstances where your hands are full - usually that's during the day (laundry/shopping), or in common rooms (where people aren't sleeping anyway). I can't recall the last time I was carrying a bunch of stuff in or out of a bedroom while someone was sleeping. For example, on trips, I pack the night before or unpack the next morning.


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## dgage

I think one other item to point out is the Pico remotes which can be mounted just about anywhere. I have one on each side of our bed that is used to turn on the master bedroom lights with the arrows and On. The middle circle is used to turn on the master bath nightlightbut unfortunately cannot turn off (toggle) the same light. The Off button turns off the master bedroom and master bath nightlight.


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## wkearney99

I dunno, in the context of a thread about a lighting automation system... I'm not one to be judgmental about anything being "really that difficult". 

It's nice to have options, and to try different things. I don't find much need to insist if something is or isn't worth it. If you like it, go for it. It's also nice to be able to share opinions, especially if they're based on experience (good AND bad). It's when discussions veer into the whole "I never see the point of doing things that way, so it must be WRONG" point of view that I find strong disagreement. I mean, really? In a geeked-out forum like AVS?

I've made use of Google Home, Alexa, Siri and Cortana and a whole host of other voice recog systems going all the way back to plug-in boards for an Apple ][. They're all a pain in one way or another (Alexa being my current favorite from the easiest-to-use/least-amount-of-hassle perspective) Likewise more automation hardware than I can shake a stick at. So pardon me if I'm being jaded from all the experience. Do I know it all? Of course not, but at least i'm willing to share and discuss.

As for scenes, not everyone lives their life in ways that scenes are useful. Or have spaces that would lend themselves to scene-based control approaches. This is where voice control over devices AND scenes is a huge win over keypads and wall controls alone. Or even over just touchscreens. There's still a LONG way to go before we get real convergence between home automation systems that work for ALL audiences and situations. Until then it's nice to have choices, it's even nicer when they can interop without excessive complication or expense.

Here's a point to consider, a lot of how we interact with these things is being dictated by how the devices perform. Not on how we want to use them. This being what I call the "tyranny of bad tools". Everyone insisting on using nails, because all they've seen are hammers. Or screws, or whatever. Maybe, just maybe the insistence on what can or can't be done is worse than not actually trying something.

With that point in mind, I try to approach problems with a clean slate, open to any solution or price point. Narrow down what you NEED first. Not just what can be done with the limited stuff you've seen or can afford NOW. Then think about what you'd REALLY want and see if any combination of products could actually get there. If not now, within the current budget, then what would make reasonable compromises along the way? A few rooms to start with? But then you have to bite the bullet on the foundational/framework costs (like Ra2 main repeaters and such). Better that than than going cheap with screw-in lightbulbs that won't interact reliably with any sort of decent automation framework. This, tangentially, is what pisses me off about the false Caseta/Ra2 marketing segmentation.

Anyway, my point is consider the big picture and scale up/down accordingly. Start as big as the dream requires, or suffer knowing you'll have to rip-and-replace (and explain that to the wife).


----------



## wkearney99

dgage said:


> I think one other item to point out is the Pico remotes which can be mounted just about anywhere. I have one on each side of our bed that is used to turn on the master bedroom lights with the arrows and On. The middle circle is used to turn on the master bath nightlightbut unfortunately cannot turn off (toggle) the same light. The Off button turns off the master bedroom and master bath nightlight.


Use them with a Claro faceplate and you can set up an entirely fake wall switch that looks indistinguishable from a real one. I've got some 2-gang setups using them. With voice control the one in the kitchen has become rather redundant. But the one alongside my kids bunkbed sees daily use. The Ra2 software is pretty flexible about how the buttons can be programmed. But with 3rd party control you're basically free to use them anyway you see fit. They're really quite handy little gizmos.


----------



## wkearney99

And, tangentially, how are you setting up that shower?

We went with a 'two-head rain fixtures from above setup' and it's FANTASTIC. Here's a 360 of it. Two rain heads and one wall hand shower, with just two other controls. There's a temp/flow control and a 3-way diverter. All from Hansgrohe. This allows going from single head, one-head/handshower, handshower alone, other head/handshower and then the other head alone. The in-between area allows two outlets to be flowing at once. This cuts down on having too many wall controls. I joke "some showers look like the boiler room on the Titanic" because of all the knobs. For our space and use having a single temp/flow rate works great. The controls use 3/4" pipe for effective flow (to 1/2" at the fixtures). Going with separate temp/flow controls would complicate the setup and increase the price accordingly.


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## Mathelo

wkearney99 said:


> And, tangentially, how are you setting up that shower?
> 
> We went with a 'two-head rain fixtures from above setup' and it's FANTASTIC. Here's a 360 of it. Two rain heads and one wall hand shower, with just two other controls. There's a temp/flow control and a 3-way diverter. All from Hansgrohe. This allows going from single head, one-head/handshower, handshower alone, other head/handshower and then the other head alone. The in-between area allows two outlets to be flowing at once. This cuts down on having too many wall controls. I joke "some showers look like the boiler room on the Titanic" because of all the knobs. For our space and use having a single temp/flow rate works great. The controls use 3/4" pipe for effective flow (to 1/2" at the fixtures). Going with separate temp/flow controls would complicate the setup and increase the price accordingly.


Our install is fairly typical for a tub/shower combination although we have also gone with the excellent Hansgrohe system and running 3/4" pex. When we get to redoing the master bath we will be considering more of the "boiler room" approach.


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## wkearney99

Mathelo said:


> Our install is fairly typical for a tub/shower combination although we have also gone with the excellent Hansgrohe system and running 3/4" pex. When we get to redoing the master bath we will be considering more of the "boiler room" approach.


The vertical tile orientation is a nice look. The herringbone for the niche must've been a challenge for the tile installer! And the lower part, that's tile with a faux chair rail wood look? Nice. We went with some faux wood looking floor tile for the kids bath. There's soooo many ways to tile these days, it's almost overwhelming.

Really helps moving to 3/4" feeding the mixer if you add the rain heads. No need to go 3/4" all the way to the fixtures. I had this same setup in the previous house (we tore down and rebuilt on same site). I dropped the ceiling in the tub surround area just enough to accommodate the lines to the heads. This to keep the lines 'inside' the house and not just up and over joists in the attic. It was a 50's era house with horrible insulation. But the same technique would work nicely for a bath that has no access above (like another floor). Just a bit of lumber thick enough to accommodate the hard copper plumbing. Which you want to avoid having the dropping rain head extension get twisted due to just PVC or pex, or at least some very securely mounted pex-brass elbows. The only challenge is to avoid piercing the lines when attaching tile backer. Not hard to do... but some subcontractors... ugh, never underestimate just how dumb some of them can be....

Hansgrohe's options on diverters and wall-shut-offs allow for some pretty flexible options. Like putting the handshower on a direct feed from the mixer and using a wall valve to control it. Had that in the last setup as it was over a tub. The valve was placed low on the wall to allow using the shower for bathing kids. Better than having to reach up all the way up to a diverter. The diverters, valves and mixers are pricey, but it was driven more by wanting to avoid an overly complicated setup on the wall. Simplifying looks better, being less expensive was a bonus.


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## Mathelo

wkearney99 said:


> The vertical tile orientation is a nice look. The herringbone for the niche must've been a challenge for the tile installer! And the lower part, that's tile with a faux chair rail wood look? Nice. We went with some faux wood looking floor tile for the kids bath. There's soooo many ways to tile these days, it's almost overwhelming.


Tiling the niche was relatively easy compared to the rest of the tile work. The floor is also tiled with a matching herringbone albeit a larger tile - 1"x3". It has been slow but will be finished in the next couple of days. I've attached a couple of other photos. The niche behind the toilet also has the glass tile. You can see how a grazing light is very dramatic. Will be even more so in the tub area once I figure out the lighting. The other photo is the top of the knee wall between the vanity and the toilet. This is my favorite detail! And yea, I'm the tile guy.

Louis


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## wkearney99

Mathelo said:


> Tiling the niche was relatively easy compared to the rest of the tile work. The floor is also tiled with a matching herringbone albeit a larger tile - 1"x3". It has been slow but will be finished in the next couple of days. I've attached a couple of other photos. The niche behind the toilet also has the glass tile. You can see how a grazing light is very dramatic. Will be even more so in the tub area once I figure out the lighting. The other photo is the top of the knee wall between the vanity and the toilet. This is my favorite detail! And yea, I'm the tile guy.


Nice work. Thanks for the pix. Yes, that niche lighting looks fantastic. Might want to keep a halogen bulb in the fixture to get just the right kind of light for the piece.

If you use motion sensing to light that room I'll suggest using the adjustable ramp-up timing for dramatic effect. As in, pop the vanity/ceiling on quickly but have the niche come up slowly, to add some drama. Ra2 has the nice feature of adjusting the ramp time and the delay. We use it on the front porch and guests always ask how. The light ramps up with 5 second fade instead of just snapping on. I also use the delay in other areas like the rec room. Some lights pop right off, but others, like the stairs, are on both a delay and a fade. The turn off doesn't start for 10 seconds and then fades down over 5. Gives 15 seconds (which is plenty) to get up the stairs before the lights drop off.

I did all the work in our old house bath (tile, framing, drywall, everything). Ah, the spray of the wet tile saw, the fun of glass tile... I was glad for the new house to be able say "put this... there..." and have been quite pleased with the job they did.


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## Neurorad

wkearney99 said:


> If the bathroom gets cold enough to require a boost then you're the right track to be considering auxiliary heat. I don't depend on the floor mats to affect the air temperature, just the underfoot comfort. It does that nicely. They've recently released a way to control it programmatically using the online IFTTT cloud service. I use that to toggle the home/away setting for trips.


NuHeat thermostat control with voice, from Alexa/GH? 

https://www.nuheat.com/products/thermostats/works-with-ifttt

My newest NuHeat thermostat looks like that one, will have to check it out. Thanks!


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## wkearney99

I installed mine about a year ago (when it first came out) and they had nothing other than their own app. What seems to have happened is they've linked their cloud-side of the setup to IFTTT. Once they lit that up it became possible to control mine, having done nothing to it. It was already 'connected' to the online app.

Interestingly, these seem to be made by a whole other company. OJ Electronics.
https://www.ojelectronics.com/busin...ucts/electric-floor-heating/touch-thermostats

If/when NuHeat/OJ release details on interacting the thermostats directly, I'll skip using IFTTT but for now, it works.

I'm working on using Homeseer3 to tie into the Timeclock Mode on my Lutron Ra2 main repeater to toggle the home/vacation modes on the NuHeat. It works, bearing in mind virtual device modes and event programming in HS3 is sometimes a bit obtuse. As it stands now I can ask "Alexa, turn on/off Home Mode" or "turn on/off Vacation Mode" and it'll toggle a virtual on/off a HS3 virtual device that IFTTT can monitor. It's a bit of a lash-up because HS3 doesn't really have a "mode driven" framework events. And Lutron's main repeater mode supports more than just Home/Away (default also includes Alternate and Suspend, but you can have many more). Home automation across multiple technologies get messy sometimes, but HS3 continues to have the lead on reliability, longevity and variety of interfacing options. It's just not free, nor open source, but it does run on Windows, Linux or Raspberry Pi. I've had mine running Windows 10 Pro for several years now.

I should add that by using the Main Repeater's "Timeclock Mode" I can coordinate everything else based on it. Which means I can set Home/Away from a variety of inputs and have them all track together. I can use the Lutron apps to change the mode, HS will see that and ripple out to the other services. IFTTT sees the HS3 virtual device going on/off and, in turn, toggles the NuHeat. Or I can tap a physical Lutron keypad button that's labeled "Vacation", which the Repeater uses to toggle Away/Home. HS3 picks up on that and off it goes. Or voice control vial Alexa that goes from the Echo device, to the AWS cloud, over to the HS3 cloud, back down to my HS3 install, which toggles the Timeclock mode and virtual device. Which the IFTTT cloud sees and tells the NuHeat cloud, which my NuHeat thermostat then picks up on. The weak point is the IFTTT cloud is not always the fastest or most reliable. But for a large action like toggling Vacation mode, that's not a big deal.


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## spiwrx

wkearney99 said:


> .... Here's a point to consider, a lot of how we interact with these things is being dictated by how the devices perform. Not on how we want to use them. This being what I call the "tyranny of bad tools". Everyone insisting on using nails, because all they've seen are hammers. Or screws, or whatever. Maybe, just maybe the insistence on what can or can't be done is worse than not actually trying something.
> 
> With that point in mind, I try to approach problems with a clean slate, open to any solution or price point. Narrow down what you NEED first. Not just what can be done with the limited stuff you've seen or can afford NOW.....
> 
> 
> ........Start as big as the dream requires, or suffer knowing you'll have to rip-and-replace (and explain that to the wife).



Really enjoyed these comments ^^^^


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## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> Really enjoyed these comments ^^^^


Heh, thanks.

I don't come at all this from the angle that I know how it all works. I don't, and I'm always prepared to learn more, or acknowledge I've missed something.

Instead, I come at it from the angle that I _sure as Hell know what annoys my wife_. And I try to warn people around mistakes I've either made, have seen others make or see as likely being annoying. If it helps someone else, great!


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## wkearney99

Has anyone used the RR-15APS-1 in-line module with a sink water heater? The kind that makes instant hot water?

I've tried using one and it's been hit-and-miss. It's there (RF-wise) but doesn't always turn on. I don't have an abundance of these so I can't readily swap it out. I don't know if mine's acting up or if there are limits as to what kind of load it can reliably control.

I'm guessing my next step would be to use an LMJ-16R-DV-B Powpak, but is that known to reliably control a resistive load like a sink water heater?

I'd love to go a step further and use an RMJ-H20R-DV-B but that's not whitelisted for use on Ra2.


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## Neurorad

I took a look at the installation guide for the water heater and filter combo - not sure why, but it says

"The wall outlet for your dispenser must have power supplied to it continuously..."

Not sure why that would be a requirement. Call and ask? Their Canadian support techs may be friendlier than those in the US.

https://www.insinkerator.ca/contact-us


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## wkearney99

I'd imagine they want to avoid idiocy like customers thinking powering it on from a wall switch would somehow magically instantly the reservoir of water. 

I had this running for at least a month or two but had the wife complaining it sometimes wasn't hot. It must've retained enough heat from the last on cycled I'd scheduled for it. Next time around it would run without issue. Now, I could have _continued to question my wife's opinion_ on the water being hot or not... or I _could wisely punt and take the 15APS out of the circuit_... *which I did*. 

It's since proven reliable powering a desk lamp on/off without fail. Not the same sort of load, of course, but proving it does at least receive RF commands properly and function.

I may just get a Powpak and wire the socket for it. There's room alongside the junction box under the cabinet, so it won't be too much of a chore/hack.


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## ksalno

We had some work done in our kitchen and the electricians weren't too careful with where they reinstalled the dimmers. So now I am faced with either removing the dimmers and reinstalling them in the correct places or deleting them in Inclusive and resetting, adding, and reactivating them again. There are at least 6 dimmers involved, so a lot of work either way. Is there an easier way in Inclusive to Move an existing dimmer to a new location or some other shortcut?

TIA


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## wkearney99

ksalno said:


> . There are at least 6 dimmers involved
> TIA


six isn't too bad, that's easier than moving. Just add an extra one during the editing to use for cut/paste of programming


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## wkearney99

wkearney99 said:


> ksalno said:
> 
> 
> 
> . There are at least 6 dimmers involved
> TIA
> 
> 
> 
> six isn't too bad, that's easier than moving. Just add an extra one during the editing to use for cut/paste of programming
Click to expand...

 before you do it make sure to export an integration report so that you can confirm that the integration IDs are the same. That could be important if you're using any external control


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> We had some work done in our kitchen and the electricians weren't too careful with where they reinstalled the dimmers. So now I am faced with either removing the dimmers and reinstalling them in the correct places or deleting them in Inclusive and resetting, adding, and reactivating them again. There are at least 6 dimmers involved, so a lot of work either way. Is there an easier way in Inclusive to Move an existing dimmer to a new location or some other shortcut?
> 
> TIA


You can just drag them into the new room in the design tab. 

If you are in the same "Room" with different "Device Locations" Literally click on the device (the actual picture of the dimmer, one at a time) and drag them into the positions you want in the othe Device Location. 


Or the same process is true if you just want to re-arrange the same box (device Location)

You can also drag and drop and entire "Device Location" to a new "Room". Just grab the header and drag it to the room tree on the left of the screen. 

Additionally, for button programming (program tab), you have to right click, copy & paste button by button, or if you if you click on the wallplate, you can copy the entire keypad. This is helpful if you have mulitple keypads that will do the same thing, or even if just the majority will, then you can reprogram a few others. It has to be the same button count or higher, or some of the info will be truncated.


----------



## wkearney99

spiwrx said:


> You can just drag them into the new room in the design tab.
> 
> If you are in the same "Room" with different "Device Locations" Literally click on the device (the actual picture of the dimmer, one at a time) and drag them into the positions you want in the othe Device Location.
> 
> Or the same process is true if you just want to re-arrange the same box (device Location)
> 
> You can also drag and drop and entire "Device Location" to a new "Room". Just grab the header and drag it to the room tree on the left of the screen.
> 
> Additionally, for button programming (program tab), you have to right click, copy & paste button by button, or if you if you click on the wallplate, you can copy the entire keypad. This is helpful if you have mulitple keypads that will do the same thing, or even if just the majority will, then you can reprogram a few others. It has to be the same button count or higher, or some of the info will be truncated.


To clarify, if I read it right, he's got six dimmers that were working, but removed for some renovation. The wiring for each position stayed the same. But the dimmers were all put back in different locations.

Let's stop here and ask a question... where they all the* SAME MODEL DIMMER*? If not, *stop *and put the right ones physically back in their correct locations. Because some dimmers are designed to control different kinds of lighting. Just re-programming scenes and stuff for them *WILL NOT FIX THIS*.

The question I'm unclear about is how 'fixed' the Ra2 software (and thus the transferred database is) to the device serial number, or if it's to the Integration ID.

Every Ra2 device has a serial number. That's what the system uses when you activate a device. You never really see this anywhere else in the software. Once a device is added to the project it gets assigned an integration ID. The integration ID is the number that any external system would use to communicate with the device. You can change a device's Integration ID (from the menu Settings->Integration->IDs tab). 

But I'm not sure what the system itself uses to coordinate devices and scenes. I don't know if it's the Integration ID or the activation Serial Number.


----------



## ksalno

wkearney99 said:


> To clarify, if I read it right, he's got six dimmers that were working, but removed for some renovation. The wiring for each position stayed the same. But the dimmers were all put back in different locations.
> 
> Let's stop here and ask a question... where they all the* SAME MODEL DIMMER*? If not, *stop *and put the right ones physically back in their correct locations. Because some dimmers are designed to control different kinds of lighting. Just re-programming scenes and stuff for them *WILL NOT FIX THIS*.
> 
> The question I'm unclear about is how 'fixed' the Ra2 software (and thus the transferred database is) to the device serial number, or if it's to the Integration ID.
> 
> Every Ra2 device has a serial number. That's what the system uses when you activate a device. You never really see this anywhere else in the software. Once a device is added to the project it gets assigned an integration ID. The integration ID is the number that any external system would use to communicate with the device. You can change a device's Integration ID (from the menu Settings->Integration->IDs tab).
> 
> But I'm not sure what the system itself uses to coordinate devices and scenes. I don't know if it's the Integration ID or the activation Serial Number.


Yes all dimmers are the same and interchangeable. The RA2 controller uses the serial number to address the device and the programming follows the device, not the location or zone it is installed in. What I ended up doing is deleting all the devices in Inclusive, resetting the dimmers to factory defaults, adding them back in design, adding them back to the appropriate scenes in programming, then running an activation and transfer to the main repeater. This worked but was time consuming. I couldn’t come up with any short cut that would work but thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## wkearney99

ksalno said:


> Yes all dimmers are the same and interchangeable. The RA2 controller uses the serial number to address the device and the programming follows the device, not the location or zone it is installed in. What I ended up doing is deleting all the devices in Inclusive, resetting the dimmers to factory defaults, adding them back in design, adding them back to the appropriate scenes in programming, then running an activation and transfer to the main repeater. This worked but was time consuming. I couldn’t come up with any short cut that would work but thanks for the suggestions.


The serial number field for the devices IS editable in the software. I was thinking it might have been possible to just rearrange the serial numbers and transfer again. But when I replied previously I was on my phone and couldn't reply with the detail I wanted to include.


----------



## thebland

RE: Dimming

We have installed over 50 switches (hybrids, dimmers etc) in my new home and our LED integrated cans can dim amazingly low, just like an incandescents. I was surprised by this as my previous ZWave dimmers had hardly any dimming range.

We used recommended bulbs from the Lutron program at their site to match proper LED bulbs to their dimmers and those bulbs also have a very high dimming range.

Really pleased so far. Never thought LEDs could dim so well!


----------



## Bigus

thebland said:


> RE: Dimming
> 
> We have installed over 50 switches (hybrids, dimmers etc) in my new home and our LED integrated cans can dim amazingly low, just like an incandescents. I was surprised by this as my previous ZWave dimmers had hardly any dimming range.
> 
> We used recommended bulbs from the Lutron program at their site to match proper LED bulbs to their dimmers and those bulbs also have a very high dimming range.
> 
> Really pleased so far. Never thought LEDs could dim so well!


Do you mind sharing exactly which bulb/dimmer pairings you used? Lutron's compatibility tool/chart trims it down to... a couple of hundred maybe?! Thanks.


----------



## njmike

Bigus said:


> Do you mind sharing exactly which bulb/dimmer pairings you used? Lutron's compatibility tool/chart trims it down to... a couple of hundred maybe?! Thanks.


I'm very curious as well.


----------



## socalsharky

njmike said:


> I'm very curious as well.


Me too. 



While I must say I am happy with the dimming performance that I get, it is still nothing like halogen or regular incandescent. I can dim a halogen to 1 percent and it still looks great--nice yellow glow, no flicker, etc. I have mainly used the Sylvania integrated LED can lights, and while they perform well, they shut down at about 15% and are still reasonably bright at that point. No flickering, but just won't dim all the way down.


----------



## njmike

socalsharky said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> While I must say I am happy with the dimming performance that I get, it is still nothing like halogen or regular incandescent. I can dim a halogen to 1 percent and it still looks great--nice yellow glow, no flicker, etc. I have mainly used the Sylvania integrated LED can lights, and while they perform well, they shut down at about 15% and are still reasonably bright at that point. No flickering, but just won't dim all the way down.


Yep. I've used LED retrofit reflector bulbs in most of the cans in the house, but I have a handful of cans that are path-of-light/nightlight fixtures and the LED retrofit bulbs don't dim down low enough for that. I'd be willing to get up into the attic and replace those handful of fixtures with dedicated LED fixtures if I was confident I could get super low dimming out of them.


----------



## socalsharky

njmike said:


> Yep. I've used LED retrofit reflector bulbs in most of the cans in the house, but I have a handful of cans that are path-of-light/nightlight fixtures and the LED retrofit bulbs don't dim down low enough for that. I'd be willing to get up into the attic and replace those handful of fixtures with dedicated LED fixtures if I was confident I could get super low dimming out of them.



Me too--let me know when you find them . Perhaps Paul (@spiwrx;) will chime in here, but I don't think you can get that type of LED performance without going to some high end stuff with special drivers. The only LEDs I've found that can go super low are the Philips Hue bulbs, and they obviously require a separate hub. I use them in my media room, and they go very low, with a nice yellow tone.


----------



## thebland

Bigus said:


> Do you mind sharing exactly which bulb/dimmer pairings you used? Lutron's compatibility tool/chart trims it down to... a couple of hundred maybe?! Thanks.





njmike said:


> I'm very curious as well.





socalsharky said:


> Me too.
> 
> 
> 
> While I must say I am happy with the dimming performance that I get, it is still nothing like halogen or regular incandescent. I can dim a halogen to 1 percent and it still looks great--nice yellow glow, no flicker, etc. I have mainly used the Sylvania integrated LED can lights, and while they perform well, they shut down at about 15% and are still reasonably bright at that point. No flickering, but just won't dim all the way down.


I have that info - somewhere. I will post in a few days. Busy trying to wrap up build!

I had bought a number of bulbs to try from Feit, Philips, GE - most form the recommended bulb list. We wanted to use Integrated lighting, but typically they are not as dimmable. However, the integrated LED cans worked / dimmed just as well but since integrated, esthetically looked they looked better than single bulbs in a typical can - they all dimmed well . but all 3000K bulbs are not the same and some got a bit yellow. But all dimmed well. For all chandeliers, fixtures, we used SATCO bulbs (see Lutron search engine). All versions of Satco LEDs were perfect and great dimming.

We also found that in calculating the load for each switch type, using too few bulbs effected the amount of dimming (negatively). For example, we have some areas that have 6 cans on one switch. When 4 were placed and we tried them, the results weren't great - but once all 6 in, all good. I don't recall my electrician's explanation of this but he calculated loads to order correct Ra2 switches for each bank of lights.

Thanks


----------



## cyrus494

*What magic is this? (double blinds)*

If you watch this youtube video (https://youtu.be/uvVZ0_djli4?t=107) it shows lutron shades in a bedroom with one layer for light-filtering and one layer for blackout. It looks like the smaller window has both shades mounted in the frame. How are they doing this? Is there a dual roller triathalon qs shade that works with rollers?


----------



## wkearney99

Probably the dual bracket mounts. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Roller_Shade_Bracket_and_Lineal_Guide.pdf

Likewise I think the also have fascia, sills and side channels you can add to better confine the edges. But this I'm guessing is not a DIY scenario. Shade design and setup is more tedious than you might first guess.


----------



## socalsharky

*Lutron Motion Detector via Homeseer*

I would like to create Homeseer automation events using my Lutron occupancy/vacancy sensors. I was hoping to set the timeout on the vacancy sensors to 1 minute, and then use Homeseer (rather than RA2) to trigger various events based on the time elapsed since the trigger. However, the motion sensor communicates with the switch directly through the repeater. When I deleted the RA2 events associated with the motion detector, it no longer sends a motion/no motion signal that Homeseer can detect.

Is there a workaround for this? Perhaps create a virtual device or button within the Lutron Essentials software that is tied to the motion sensor?


----------



## wkearney99

You can have a motion sensor work with two separate groups of devices. One group is occupancy, the second is vacancy. They do not have to control the same devices. They can set each of the devices to any value (off, on or any dim level). I have vacancy for several sensors set to also turn off some other lights 'nearby' that might likely have been turned on and are no longer needed. Motion turns on a vanity... vacancy also turns off ceiling cans and the hallway immediately outside of it (but with a 5 minute delay).

I seem to recall HS3 was able to track vacancy for the sensor. As in, the sensor has detected there's nothing happening after the sensor-configured amount of time, so it then fires the vacancy scene. I just looked in my HS3 setup and it does have the ability to track a device changes and becomes 'No Motion', which is the HS3-ish name for what Lutron calls Vacancy. 

You can create virtual devices in Ra2. I've got a room called Virtual that I've used to test how some more complex devices appear via automation (wallbox dimmers, etc). You could use that.

Honestly, Ra2's occupancy/vacancy is excellent. Why would you want to skip it?

As a side note, I have attended the training and have Inclusive level access to programming the repeaters. I know that certain device types are only available via Inclusive. I seem to recall some scene types might also be similarly restricted. I'm not certain. The training class was WELL worth the time/expense. Lots of little things you might not otherwise understand how/why to use.


----------



## dgage

I have something similar to you, though not with motions. I put a single 3-button Pico with up/down on each side of the (master) bed. The on/off and up/down buttons control the main bedroom light. The middle circle button can only control a scene so I can’t toggle the master bathroom nightlight as I’d like. So the circle button turns on the master bathroom night light when we go to the bathroom at night. And the off button of the Pico turns off both the master bedroom light and the master bathroom nightlight. So with a RadioRa2 system, a button (or motion sensor) can control more than the local load.

And I figured if I ever needed more than 100 devices or another reason to get Inclusive, the cost isn’t that much to be able to open up the full RadioRa2 system. Glad it was valuable to you.


----------



## socalsharky

wkearney99 said:


> I seem to recall HS3 was able to track vacancy for the sensor. As in, the sensor has detected there's nothing happening after the sensor-configured amount of time, so it then fires the vacancy scene. I just looked in my HS3 setup and it does have the ability to track a device changes and becomes 'No Motion', which is the HS3-ish name for what Lutron calls Vacancy.
> 
> Honestly, Ra2's occupancy/vacancy is excellent. Why would you want to skip it?



Yes, HS3 can track motion/no motion (occupancy/vacancy). However, the RA2 sensor only sends the occupancy/vacancy notification if it is tied to a device.


I agree that the RA2 occupancy/vacancy sensors work very well. The response time is great. The problem comes when you would like to trigger events off of different time intervals, or temporarily disable the motion detector (MD). Once you set the time interval on the MD, that is the value you have to live with. Neither RA2 or HS3 can direct the sensor. And since the motion-controlled light behavior is entirely within RA2, HS3 can't change this. 



For instance, I currently have the MD in the garage set to turn off the lights in 1 minute. If I happen to be in a corner of the garage that is out of range of the MD for even 1 minute, the lights go off. I would like to be able to temporarily disable this behavior. I was able to do it with HS3, but only by detecting when the lights go off and then immediately turning them back on. With a Zwave MD, the HS3 software interprets the MD signal, and the event logic can be manipulated. 



Similarly, it would be nice to know within a minute or so when a room had become unoccupied. However, if you set the MD to 1 minute, then the lights go out way too quickly.


----------



## thebland

*Radio Ra2 and Honeywell TotalConnect?*

Anyone link RadioRa2 with Honeywell Vista to use and control Lutron lighting, TSTATs, etc via Total Connect app? Possible using the Honeywell Home Automation 4232 interface?

Thanks


----------



## Swancoat

I have a full RadioRa2 install at my home, but no occupancy sensors. Can some of you guys that have some testify as to how responsive they are (not so much 'on', which I presume is plenty fast, but rather 'off')? Are these things appropriate to use say, in a pantry or other closet (light on when door opens, light off when door closes)?


----------



## socalsharky

Swancoat said:


> I have a full RadioRa2 install at my home, but no occupancy sensors. Can some of you guys that have some testify as to how responsive they are (not so much 'on', which I presume is plenty fast, but rather 'off')? Are these things appropriate to use say, in a pantry or other closet (light on when door opens, light off when door closes)?



As you mention, they are very fast to turn on; it's almost instant when you walk in the room. Depending upon where you locate them, they can detect your presence as you approach the room. This may or may not be desirable, as you could get lots of false triggers.


As for turning the lights off, you can set the sensors for 1, 5, 15, or 30 minute vacancy. There is no way to have them turn off immediately upon closing the closet door. It's a little tricky to adjust the sensitivity for the "no motion" trigger to be sent to the main repeater. For a closet or pantry, you might want to consider a wired magnetic contact switch and relay. I did this for my coat closet, and it works flawlessly, but you do have to run some wires. Total for the parts was less than $30. Instant on when you open the door, and instant off when you close it.


----------



## Swancoat

socalsharky said:


> As you mention, they are very fast to turn on; it's almost instant when you walk in the room. Depending upon where you locate them, they can detect your presence as you approach the room. This may or may not be desirable, as you could get lots of false triggers.
> 
> 
> As for turning the lights off, you can set the sensors for 1, 5, 15, or 30 minute vacancy. There is no way to have them turn off immediately upon closing the closet door. It's a little tricky to adjust the sensitivity for the "no motion" trigger to be sent to the main repeater. For a closet or pantry, you might want to consider a wired magnetic contact switch and relay. I did this for my coat closet, and it works flawlessly, but you do have to run some wires. Total for the parts was less than $30. Instant on when you open the door, and instant off when you close it.


I currently have some Insteon door sensors doing the job, but those are the last vestiges of Insteon I have left, and I’d like to get rid of it once and for all.


----------



## ksalno

Swancoat said:


> I have a full RadioRa2 install at my home, but no occupancy sensors. Can some of you guys that have some testify as to how responsive they are (not so much 'on', which I presume is plenty fast, but rather 'off')? Are these things appropriate to use say, in a pantry or other closet (light on when door opens, light off when door closes)?


For areas that I may go in and out of frequently or where the door is generally open, I use the Lutron occupancy sensors. For example, I have them in the walk-in closets in the MBR. They come on immediately and I have them set to turn off after 5 minutes of inactivity. In a clothes closest you just need to be careful where you put them. Mine replaced an existing light switch and I have to be careful how I hang my clothes so I don’t block the sensor. If I’m going to bed and want the light to turn off immediately, I just touch the button and it turns off immediately. I also use them for rooms in the basement where it’s dark on entry and may be hard for someone to see the switch. 

For closets like pantry or coat closets where there is a door that is normally closed, I use mechanical on/off switches that operate instantly to turn the lights on/off when the door is open/closed. These are not under RA2 control and I don’t feel they need to be.


----------



## thebland

Anyone have an "Inclusive RA2' program? Rather not take the course to get it.

Thanks!!


----------



## shremi

Hey guys so I just finished the course ... I am starting to plan the lights before our apartment.... We wanted to use some power modules with keypads to make a clean look but unfortunately the software doesn't allow to add the power modules until lvl 2 .....

Does anyone here does this for a living ??? I want to purchase a whole lot of devices and I rather do it with someone with more knowledge than me .... And maybe get a good deal


----------



## gdfein

I’m finishing an outdoor kitchen, bar and lounge area. It will have two sections of can lights and two ceiling fans, and two flood lights under the eaves. We have four switch locations so I’m guessing the electrician has wired for both fans to be in parallel. 

I have about 30% of the inside home on RadRa2 already and I was thinking of doing these outside circuits with RA2 as well. 

Question, can two ceiling fans be wired to a single fan speed controller? Any of you have similar outdoor living spaces think this is the way to go, or should I go with just a traditional on off switch and do a wireless remote for the fans and separate control to be able to have separate speeds? One fan is over the lounge area and the other is over the kitchen area so perhaps separate control has some purpose. 

Curious on thoughts from this group. 

Greg





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## socalsharky

shremi said:


> Hey guys so I just finished the course ... I am starting to plan the lights before our apartment.... We wanted to use some power modules with keypads to make a clean look but unfortunately the software doesn't allow to add the power modules until lvl 2 .....
> 
> Does anyone here does this for a living ??? I want to purchase a whole lot of devices and I rather do it with someone with more knowledge than me .... And maybe get a good deal



Send a PM to Paul @spiwrx at Hank's Electric. I got all my stuff from him. He's very knowledgeable and pricing is very good.


----------



## shremi

socalsharky said:


> Send a PM to Paul @spiwrx at Hank's Electric. I got all my stuff from him. He's very knowledgeable and pricing is very good.


Thanks will do


----------



## spiwrx

gdfein said:


> I’m finishing an outdoor kitchen, bar and lounge area. It will have two sections of can lights and two ceiling fans, and two flood lights under the eaves. We have four switch locations so I’m guessing the electrician has wired for both fans to be in parallel.
> 
> I have about 30% of the inside home on RadRa2 already and I was thinking of doing these outside circuits with RA2 as well.
> 
> Question, can two ceiling fans be wired to a single fan speed controller? Any of you have similar outdoor living spaces think this is the way to go, or should I go with just a traditional on off switch and do a wireless remote for the fans and separate control to be able to have separate speeds? One fan is over the lounge area and the other is over the kitchen area so perhaps separate control has some purpose.
> 
> Curious on thoughts from this group.
> 
> Greg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Would be better able to recommend a solution if we knew what each location was for and what it was wired to?
The Fan Speed Control 2ANF could handle 2 fans if you didn't exceed the 2amp (combined) rating. 
Or you could use their Switch and use the Fan proprietary remotes. Unless you like changing speeds a lot, this would work. 

If you have 2 independent wired control locations, you would like be able to take either route. 
If you have a 3-way you could use a PICO or Keypad as your other location.
So yes, you have some options. 



Using them outside with a weatherproof cover should be fine. I have had mine outside for 5years like this with no problems but we have moderate climate and little rain. 
I recommend a plastic weatherproof cover as opposed to metal, it may improve your range, but it will work under metal as well. 

Double check your fan is compatible with the fan speed control (most are), and it's motor amperage. 
If not you can always use the switch.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Anyone have an "Inclusive RA2' program? Rather not take the course to get it.
> 
> Thanks!!


This an upgrade/update to the essentials software. What are you trying to get, you think you don't have w/ essentials? There is not much magic here. Just opens it up to 200 devices. Allows adding a second main repeater, a few of the inclusive only parts, WPM, power modules, Grafik T.


----------



## thebland

I believe the global scenes / buttons are Inclusive only. I have over a dozen hybrid keypads and the likes. Changes would be far faster. And I’m not far from needing a second Main Repeater. . That’s a big convenience.

EDIT: As I just went through Inclusive, it can download (Extract) the current file from the Main Releater. Essentials cannot do that. If you lose or corrupt your essentials file, you likely have to reprogram a system.


----------



## thebland

QUESTION:

My installer left me the RA2 program file, I have the software.

To add new devices (I have 2 Grafik Eyes and a Hybrid Controller and T-Stat to add. I add them in the design tab, program them, Activate, transfer - No need to use 'ADD' button on the Main Repeater - correct?

Also, if I program the Grafik Eyes locally at their interface (not in software), will the settings I've programmed transfer automatically back to my software file when I hit transfer? Or do I need to extract project file?

Also, is it imperative to put in load info, bulb type, # of bulbs in the zone with the RA2 software is all is properly installed in the room?

Thanks


----------



## thebland

thebland said:


> QUESTION:
> 
> My installer left me the RA2 program file, I have the software.
> 
> To add new devices (I have 2 Grafik Eyes and a Hybrid Controller and T-Stat to add. I add them in the design tab, program them, Activate, transfer - No need to use 'ADD' button on the Main Repeater - correct?
> 
> Also, if I program the Grafik Eyes locally at their interface (not in software), will the settings I've programmed transfer automatically back to my software file when I hit transfer? Or do I need to extract project file?
> 
> Also, is it imperative to put in load info, bulb type, # of bulbs in the zone with the RA2 software is all is properly installed in the room?
> 
> Thanks


Figured it all out. All good!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> QUESTION:
> 
> My installer left me the RA2 program file, I have the software.
> 
> To add new devices (I have 2 Grafik Eyes and a Hybrid Controller and T-Stat to add. I add them in the design tab, program them, Activate, transfer - No need to use 'ADD' button on the Main Repeater - correct?
> 
> Also, if I program the Grafik Eyes locally at their interface (not in software), will the settings I've programmed transfer automatically back to my software file when I hit transfer? Or do I need to extract project file?
> 
> Also, is it imperative to put in load info, bulb type, # of bulbs in the zone with the RA2 software is all is properly installed in the room?
> 
> Thanks


Even though you have it figured out, for the benefit of others:


_To add new devices (I have 2 Grafik Eyes and a Hybrid Controller and T-Stat to add. I add them in the design tab, program them, Activate, transfer - No need to use 'ADD' button on the Main Repeater - correct?_ Correct, All the programming for RR2 is normally done through the software in the order you described. There is a way to manually program this, but you don't want to, it's a pain...
_if I program the Grafik Eyes locally at their interface (not in software), will the settings I've programmed transfer automatically back to my software file when I hit transfer? Or do I need to extract project file?_ The keypad on the Grafik Eye is essentially treated as it's own keypad in the radio ra 2 system. You can set up "Scene(s)" on the Grafik Eye locally as you mentioned, and recall them from it's own or other keypad buttons if you program those buttons to Grafik Eye Scene1 (_or any other scene number)_. In this regard you can change the "Scene" locally on the Grafik Eye as you described, but that scene is only for those lights connected (wired) to the grafik eye. So the programming for that scene stays locally with the grafik eye and any keypad buttons only send a command to enable that scene. The software and/or app (to the best of my knowledge) Don't know what that scene is exactly just to make it active when a keypad button programmed to that scene is pushed. This can be useful if it makes sense to everyone, but can cause trouble because it's possible to change the "scene" once it's been programmed (locally). Also if you have engraved buttons you have to take care in knowing that if they adjust the scene the labeling may not be accurate anymore. If you avoid recalling grafik eye "scenes" from a keypad button, and actually create the scene in the software instead you will have more flexibility to add/remove/edit/adjust those scenes from the software and/or app. Additionally you can incorporate other devices not on the local grafik eye. Scene(s) created on the grafik eye are only for circuits connected to it. Again, I really advise against using the Grafik Eye Scenes Locally, but there is an option for it.
_is it imperative to put in load info, bulb type, # of bulbs in the zone with the RA2 software is all is properly installed in the room?_ No it is not necessary, but it's there to help you. If you don't include all that info, you need to make sure you select the right dimmer type and size your self. This feature does a few things, it tries to make sure you have the correct dimmer type, the correct dimmer wattage, and it will add necessary interfaces to the B.O.M.. I also like to use this to help identify lights in the room. Some people get lazy and name them "dimmer 1", "dimmer 2", and other generic terms. Chances are there are a different number of lights on each, so I like to at least include the number of lights to help someone troubleshooting or coming in after the fact, as I often do, determine which dimmer controls what lights.


----------



## spiwrx

Everyone, I monitor this thread, a Grafik Eye thread and poke into some others here on AVS in regards to HA & Lutron related questions. Over on the Grafik Eye thread there was a motion to remove it from "sticky" status because it had been there for so many years and they thought it to be irrelevant. Indeed the Grafik Eye has lost some market share to their own, Caseta, Radio Ra 2 & Select systems. Especially with the introduction of the RRD-6ND dimmer and the recent price increase of the Grafik Eye itself. Well this RR2 thread is approaching 10yrs. And the "sticky" part of the forum doesn't really have much weight for me, but I again want to thank everyone for supporting each other and keeping it positive. There are quite a few lurkers out there, many of you email or message me but please participate in the thread. I know hearing things from a different angle or perspective will benefit us all! 

That being said I'd love to hear about some of your integrations, or what you use or benefit the most out of in the system? 

I recently rescued a new dog, and it's daily routine has effected mine and in turn some of my morning "scene's" on my system. I was thinking how easy it is to adjust these scenes in the APP now and how much of a pain it was in the original (legacy) Radio Ra (1) system. In those days you would just except it for what it was. Now we can make changes on the fly. 

Additionally I started using HS3(HomeSeer) & Alexa at the same time. For me Alexa bridges the gap between some of my 3rd party controlled receptacles & my Lutron system. Somewhat of a conditional I guess, but works easily for what I need & where I'm using it. HS3 I got just to help me understand it more and help some of you. My system is not so complicated but was easily able to create some conditionals there as well. 

I often get asked whats new or coming, well I usually find out when you do. But I think at this point one of the few things still on the wish list is a controller receptacle, they actually have these for their commercial controls, but given the price the plug-ins they have always offered are a better deal. 



Rambling today, but I recently went to "fix"(re-program) a system someone else had installed and programmed. The job was plagued by a general lack of understanding of some of the core RR2 components. 2 Main repeater system, both repeater placed side by side. This home needed some auxiliary repeaters because of it's size, but they could have doubled down by placing the 2nd main repeater where they placed the auxiliary repeaters. Where they did place auxiliaries they had 2, again side by side. Now I assume they thought they needed 1 for each main, but not necessarily true. The way they loaded the "rooms" in the software was very confusing. Most of the dimmers were remotely located in a common area. And they created a couple "rooms" for that remote area. It probably made some sense to him and no one else, but the software directly translates to the APP so the labeling in the APP was really confusing and just frustrating for the end user. I have seen this a few times and all I can say is yes, remote mount the dimmers, but in the software still create the rooms & areas as they are physically in the home. This way if someone is using the APP and they want to turn off a light in the master bedroom, they don't have to open "dimmer bank 3, switch 4"... In the software you can note the device location separately if you like, it's helpful for troubleshooting, but Make a "room" in the software as it's exits physically in the home. This also plays directly into the voice controls as they are becoming more popular. You don't want to sit in your living room and try to remember "Alexa, Turn on Dimmer bank 5 switch 4".... OK I'm done venting. If you had someone program a system for you and it's frustrating like this, just know it can be changed. They didn't either know well enough, or work with you close enough. The goal is to simplify the use, beautify the area by removing the "wall acne" of having 5 dimmer bank in your kitchen and reduce it to a single keypad, create well lit spaces, and hopefully save some electricity at the same time. It can be done...


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Even though you have it figured out, for the benefit of others:
> 
> 
> _To add new devices (I have 2 Grafik Eyes and a Hybrid Controller and T-Stat to add. I add them in the design tab, program them, Activate, transfer - No need to use 'ADD' button on the Main Repeater - correct?_ Correct, All the programming for RR2 is normally done through the software in the order you described. There is a way to manually program this, but you don't want to, it's a pain...
> _if I program the Grafik Eyes locally at their interface (not in software), will the settings I've programmed transfer automatically back to my software file when I hit transfer? Or do I need to extract project file?_ The keypad on the Grafik Eye is essentially treated as it's own keypad in the radio ra 2 system. You can set up "Scene(s)" on the Grafik Eye locally as you mentioned, and recall them from it's own or other keypad buttons if you program those buttons to Grafik Eye Scene1 (_or any other scene number)_. In this regard you can change the "Scene" locally on the Grafik Eye as you described, but that scene is only for those lights connected (wired) to the grafik eye. So the programming for that scene stays locally with the grafik eye and any keypad buttons only send a command to enable that scene. The software and/or app (to the best of my knowledge) Don't know what that scene is exactly just to make it active when a keypad button programmed to that scene is pushed. This can be useful if it makes sense to everyone, but can cause trouble because it's possible to change the "scene" once it's been programmed (locally). Also if you have engraved buttons you have to take care in knowing that if they adjust the scene the labeling may not be accurate anymore. If you avoid recalling grafik eye "scenes" from a keypad button, and actually create the scene in the software instead you will have more flexibility to add/remove/edit/adjust those scenes from the software and/or app. Additionally you can incorporate other devices not on the local grafik eye. Scene(s) created on the grafik eye are only for circuits connected to it. Again, I really advise against using the Grafik Eye Scenes Locally, but there is an option for it.
> _is it imperative to put in load info, bulb type, # of bulbs in the zone with the RA2 software is all is properly installed in the room?_ No it is not necessary, but it's there to help you. If you don't include all that info, you need to make sure you select the right dimmer type and size your self. This feature does a few things, it tries to make sure you have the correct dimmer type, the correct dimmer wattage, and it will add necessary interfaces to the B.O.M.. I also like to use this to help identify lights in the room. Some people get lazy and name them "dimmer 1", "dimmer 2", and other generic terms. Chances are there are a different number of lights on each, so I like to at least include the number of lights to help someone troubleshooting or coming in after the fact, as I often do, determine which dimmer controls what lights.


Great post here. Thanks!! enjoying the Ra2 system. Fun to program!

Appreciate you input here.

Tell me, what are 'roll backs'? I notice this option to 'enable rollbacks' when in the occupancy sensors section on rooms without sensors?

Also, I have a LCR2-OCR2F ceiling occupancy sensor. Can it double as an actual vacancy sensor? Or is that a different model that can do both occupancy and vacancy. I know it'll time out when acting as an occupancy sensor but can I make a vacancy sensor to turn off lights when no motion is detected? It seems like I can in the software but perhaps not - can't get it working.Or should it be set to 'auto-off, etc on the unit to accomplish such?. My electrician installed but I want to modify. I assume the settings (auto on, etc) are on the actual sensor?

[email protected]!


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## HDTVNYC

A couple of items from me on RR2:

-When you have Sonos programmed to a keypad, the up/down buttons are exclusively set to control volume. I have single keypads in all rooms and was previously using them to control scenes and dimming of lights, later added Sonos where I just want to have an on/off and volume. Wish there was someway around this, maybe with a 3rd party controller. 

-Dimming of plug-in LED lamps. I've seen so many manufacturers switch from screw in type bulbs to exclusively offering built-in LEDs on table/floor lamps. They either have no dim function or you have to use the buttons on the lamp. Would be great if there was some type plug-in dimmer that would work with these lamps. 

-Would love to see the newer Grafik-T switches/keypads make it into the essentials software. I'm not sure why it's dedicated to inclusive since it acts just like the other dimmers/keypads. 

I do have some use cases where conditional control would be helpful. Particularly with their HVAC controllers, they don't offer fan speeds or humidity options but it would be great to be able to turn on the A/C if humidity has hit a limit. 

Considering purchasing a Hubitat as next steps for some basic conditional control since they have both the RR2 lighting and have also added RR2 HVAC control into the system. Other item is looking into CasaTunes which now integrates with RR2 to see if it removes some of the keypad limitations.


----------



## thebland

*2nd Main Repeater Question*

I want to add a second Main Repeater. Any special steps to do so? I'm at 83/100 on repeater #1 and thought I'd add a new repeater and add new items to the new on and leave the primary at 83? 

Seems a simple enough procedure in the software but any advice to avoid pitfalls - the Inclusive software is light on support on this. 

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Great post here. Thanks!! enjoying the Ra2 system. Fun to program!
> 
> Appreciate you input here.
> 
> Tell me, what are 'roll backs'? I notice this option to 'enable rollbacks' when in the occupancy sensors section on rooms without sensors?
> 
> Also, I have a LCR2-OCR2F ceiling occupancy sensor. Can it double as an actual vacancy sensor? Or is that a different model that can do both occupancy and vacancy. I know it'll time out when acting as an occupancy sensor but can I make a vacancy sensor to turn off lights when no motion is detected? It seems like I can in the software but perhaps not - can't get it working.Or should it be set to 'auto-off, etc on the unit to accomplish such?. My electrician installed but I want to modify. I assume the settings (auto on, etc) are on the actual sensor?
> 
> [email protected]!


Basically a count down timer. I don't know where or why that term was used except to maybe "roll-back" that device to it's previous state?? 
If you turn this on for a device, it will roll it back to what ever you programmed it for (likely 0% or Off) after a given time. 
A few points on "Rollback"


Rollback is found in the occupancy settings
You have to enable this per "Room"
The "Room" can only have one "Timeout" setting, meaning you can only set one time in each room. _If you want 2 different times for devices in the same "room" you need to create and secondary room and drag/drop that device to that room. _
The timeout can is select-able at these increments only 15/30/60/90/120 minutes
Selected devices will default to 0% (off) when you select them to be enabled for Rollback in that room
If you turn on a "rollback" enable device, it will rollback to the light level programmed to the rollback after it times out. However it is initiated, from the device itself, from keypad button, or other timeclock schedule it will always rollback after it was initialed. Maybe in a hallway you want a light to come on at 100% so you can see well, but after rollback it goes to 20% so it's still a visible path?? More commonly I might use it for a closet, pantry, bathroom, bathroom exhaust fan, towel warmer, etc...
 A word of caution on rollback, it should be explained well to the user, or they might think something is wrong when lights go off automatically. 



Any Lutron Occupancy sensor can be programmed in the software for Occupancy (full auto on/off) or Vacancy (Manual on / Auto off), however for code reasons a Vacancy sensor cannot become an occupancy sensor. Thank the wonderful state of California for this... LRF2-Oxxxx vs. LRF2-Vxxxx (there are manual programming for the sensor, but it doesn't pertain to the RR2 system, it's for other systems. The sensors work cross platform. Except for the timing and sensitivity, the Occupancy vs. Vacancy is set up in the software in RR2. 



In the "Design" tab only when you add a sensor can you select it as Occupancy or Vacancy. This is not an edit-able feature. If you got it wrong you have to delete it and add it back in. 
caveat: in the same room, you cannot have both Occupancy and Vacancy Sensors for some reason. If you need both simply create a fake room, and add that other sensor there, or use only Occupancy if allowed by your AHJ, so you have flexibility to configure.
For Occupancy Sensors you have to program what you want to happen for "Occupied" (initiated and before timeout) as well as "Unoccupied" (timeout expired)
effectively you could program only the "Unoccupied" settings to make it act as a "Vacancy". As suggested above. If you added it as a vacancy only in the design tab you can only program the unoccupied settings.
Remember it is literal. If you want a light to come on and off you have to program the Occupied and Unoccupied. It will do this for you by default, but you can edit it. In other words if you enable a device to a sensor when you check it, it will automatically set the device to 100%(on) and 0% off under the unoccupied. On the left of the screen at the bottom of the Occupancy sensor picture in the program tab, you can select the "Occupied" or "Unoccupied" fields and set them as you desire. Maybe on a bathroom you want your light and exhaust fan to come on while occupied. But you want the fan to run a little longer. There are several ways to do this, but to merge our examples, enable them both in the occupied but de-select the fan from the unoccupied. The fan is now staying on indefinitely. Then go to the roll back and select the fan only to rollback to 0%(off) at an interval longer then the sensor. Remember the timing on the sensor is done on the sensor physically, but the rollback, fade, delay etc.. is all done in the program.
In my own home I have the bathroom example but it was set up previous to the rollback feature being available. Instead I just adjusted the "Delay". In the "Program" tab at the bottom of the main screen there is a table of devices associated to whatever you are programing on the left. It's labeled "Programmed Item Name" if you right click on that bar on the title you can "show delay". Then you can add a delay to when you want that action programmed. So for my bath fan, when you hit the "Off" scene, the lights go out and the delay on the fan is set for 15minutes. So it will stay on for an additional delay of 15minutes after the off scene, and then it will go off, or start to fade off if it was a dimmer. So, in the case of the dimmer the off scene, would maintain it's light level for additional 15minutes then it would fade off it's default 2seconds. You could also set the fade to a longer duration and skip the delay. My porch light for instance comes on at 3pm and fades on from 0%-100% over 2hours. Why? because I can. You never notice my porch light come on, it's reaches full brightness as the sun sets and it's just on. Just remember if you start playing around with delays & fade the action of the trigger (button, sensor, time sch.) will only happen after the delay and + the fade time. It's easy to get lost when you start using them both, along with sensors having their own physical time setting. But keep that in mind an use it to your advantage. If you are using a sensor, use only it's minimum time setting and you can adjust the additional time as a delay and/or fade. In this case it would be sensor time + delay + the Fade. This way you don't have to get on the ladder to adjust the sensor timing!!!


----------



## wkearney99

thebland said:


> *2nd Main Repeater Question*
> 
> I want to add a second Main Repeater. Any special steps to do so? I'm at 83/100 on repeater #1 and thought I'd add a new repeater and add new items to the new on and leave the primary at 83?
> 
> Seems a simple enough procedure in the software but any advice to avoid pitfalls - the Inclusive software is light on support on this.


If you're going to be adding a lot of devices into existing rooms then you might want to move the room (and it's devices) to the new repeater. There's not an 'easy' way to do this because the devices need to be reset and re-paired to the 2nd repeater. Where it matters is any rooms that are going to be handled with a sensor or a roll-back. Otherwise it doesn't matter, scenes and keypads can control any of the devices, regardless of repeater pairing. That's about the only gotcha when expanding a setup.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Basically a count down timer. I don't know where or why that term was used except to maybe "roll-back" that device to it's previous state??
> If you turn this on for a device, it will roll it back to what ever you programmed it for (likely 0% or Off) after a given time.
> A few points on "Rollback"
> 
> 
> Rollback is found in the occupancy settings
> You have to enable this per "Room"
> The "Room" can only have one "Timeout" setting, meaning you can only set one time in each room. _If you want 2 different times for devices in the same "room" you need to create and secondary room and drag/drop that device to that room. _
> The timeout can is select-able at these increments only 15/30/60/90/120 minutes
> Selected devices will default to 0% (off) when you select them to be enabled for Rollback in that room
> If you turn on a "rollback" enable device, it will rollback to the light level programmed to the rollback after it times out. However it is initiated, from the device itself, from keypad button, or other timeclock schedule it will always rollback after it was initialed. Maybe in a hallway you want a light to come on at 100% so you can see well, but after rollback it goes to 20% so it's still a visible path?? More commonly I might use it for a closet, pantry, bathroom, bathroom exhaust fan, towel warmer, etc...
> A word of caution on rollback, it should be explained well to the user, or they might think something is wrong when lights go off automatically.


So, for roll backs, no need for any sensors. Sort of like an occupancy sensor but it is activated by turning on a light and will turn off at a programmed length of time? Correct?

All else is super well explained. Thanks so much. You're incredibly helpful!


----------



## spiwrx

HDTVNYC said:


> A couple of items from me on RR2:
> 
> -When you have Sonos programmed to a keypad, the up/down buttons are exclusively set to control volume. I have single keypads in all rooms and was previously using them to control scenes and dimming of lights, later added Sonos where I just want to have an on/off and volume. Wish there was someway around this, maybe with a 3rd party controller.
> 
> -Dimming of plug-in LED lamps. I've seen so many manufacturers switch from screw in type bulbs to exclusively offering built-in LEDs on table/floor lamps. They either have no dim function or you have to use the buttons on the lamp. Would be great if there was some type plug-in dimmer that would work with these lamps.
> 
> -Would love to see the newer Grafik-T switches/keypads make it into the essentials software. I'm not sure why it's dedicated to inclusive since it acts just like the other dimmers/keypads.
> 
> I do have some use cases where conditional control would be helpful. Particularly with their HVAC controllers, they don't offer fan speeds or humidity options but it would be great to be able to turn on the A/C if humidity has hit a limit.
> 
> Considering purchasing a Hubitat as next steps for some basic conditional control since they have both the RR2 lighting and have also added RR2 HVAC control into the system. Other item is looking into CasaTunes which now integrates with RR2 to see if it removes some of the keypad limitations.



There different ways depending on your equipment to integrate Sonos, but the easiest way it to add a Sonos enable Pico. Otherwise take a look here at how to add Sonos to regular Lutron RR2 Keypads. (Note, these are multi system notes, please make sure you are following for Radio Ra 2)
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Lutron_Sonos_App_Note.pdf


Also, I just tried and I was able to add a Pico Sonos control and Copy and Paste each button from the Sonos Pico to any other Keypad. I don't know if you need the actual sonos pico for setup. Maybe it says in those directions. I have not done it myself, but there is a way to at least get some limited control over your Sonos via other keypads. 

Dimming LED lights, I could write pages. It's the bane of my existence. Buy a good lamp, not the cheapest one. Read before you buy, make sure it says dimmable somewhere. If it has it's own button, you can only switch if from Lutron and operate by it's own control. These are some sort of gimmick lamp or really cheesey cheap import. 

I don't know why the Grafik T is on essentials either, but if you can afford them, I can help you with that. They are very $$$$

I don't know about Hubitat, but read through there help community, see if they are responsive. I know you can likely set up those scenarios through HomeSeer and they have a pretty good foothold in this area already. Hubitat looks to be inexpensive but do they sdeliver at that price?? Please let us know. I think Bill on here might have it?? Can you chime in?


----------



## thebland

wkearney99 said:


> If you're going to be adding a lot of devices into existing rooms then you might want to move the room (and it's devices) to the new repeater. There's not an 'easy' way to do this because the devices need to be reset and re-paired to the 2nd repeater. Where it matters is any rooms that are going to be handled with a sensor or a roll-back. Otherwise it doesn't matter, scenes and keypads can control any of the devices, regardless of repeater pairing. That's about the only gotcha when expanding a setup.


* Main Repeater Firmware Update*
How often does Lutron update the firmware for Main Repeaters? Are there really any reasons to upgrade firmware if all is working?

I assume that when I add a second repeater, I should have both on same firmware... 

How long (minutes) does it take to update the repeater and what is best practices (e.g. hard wired PC connection vs wifi to update, etc)? Do you have to reload your program or is it saved on the repeater?

Sorry for all the questions... and thanks so much!!


----------



## smoothtlk

"Also, I just tried and I was able to add a Pico Sonos control and Copy and Paste each button from the Sonos Pico to any other Keypad. I don't know if you need the actual sonos pico for setup. Maybe it says in those directions. I have not done it myself, but there is a way to at least get some limited control over your Sonos via other keypads. "

Our controller listens to the RadioRa Master repeater and "hears" a Pico (or other keypress) and we then map that to a Sonos API transport control send via TCP. Or a zillion other functions.

I am assuming you could do the same with two Homeseer drivers (radiora and a sonos).


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *2nd Main Repeater Question*
> 
> I want to add a second Main Repeater. Any special steps to do so? I'm at 83/100 on repeater #1 and thought I'd add a new repeater and add new items to the new on and leave the primary at 83?
> 
> Seems a simple enough procedure in the software but any advice to avoid pitfalls - the Inclusive software is light on support on this.
> 
> Thanks!


some tips:


 try and find a good divide. Upstairs / downstairs, Move all shades and or thermostats to 2nd main and keep dimmers on main. If you have a lot of keypads, place them on one, devices on another. Etc....
Avoid splitting a common area or single room onto 2 different repeaters. There is a opportunity for a slight delay, that might be noticeable.
Take of advantage if possible and also use it to extend range also, it is a repeater. If you have another location you can get power and Ethernet....
If you have auxiliary repeaters make sure it is associated to the main repeater of wich the devices it's for are on.
 


wkearney99 said:


> If you're going to be adding a lot of devices into existing rooms then you might want to move the room (and it's devices) to the new repeater. There's not an 'easy' way to do this because the devices need to be reset and re-paired to the 2nd repeater. Where it matters is any rooms that are going to be handled with a sensor or a roll-back. Otherwise it doesn't matter, scenes and keypads can control any of the devices, regardless of repeater pairing. That's about the only gotcha when expanding a setup.



You can literally drag and drop and entire "room" from one main repeater to the next. You don't need to go through all that. I found out the hard way.... If you have a lot of devices in that room it might take a little time to move. select the room in the "Tree" view of the design tab and literally drag it to the second main repeater or vice versa. The same is true for keypad button programing. Also you can copy and paste single buttons, or copy (right click around the keypad on the wallplate) the entire keypad. If going to/from a different number of buttons you may lose some or do them individually. (Back up your project and play with it a training exercise) 




thebland said:


> So, for roll backs, no need for any sensors. Sort of like an occupancy sensor but it is activated by turning on a light and will turn off at a programmed length of time? Correct?
> 
> All else is super well explained. Thanks so much. You're incredibly helpful!



Yes, more like a poor-mans vacancy... If that is all you need it for, no reason for the sensor.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> some tips:
> 
> 
> try and find a good divide. Upstairs / downstairs, Move all shades and or thermostats to 2nd main and keep dimmers on main. If you have a lot of keypads, place them on one, devices on another. Etc....
> Avoid splitting a common area or single room onto 2 different repeaters. There is a opportunity for a slight delay, that might be noticeable.
> Take of advantage if possible and also use it to extend range also, it is a repeater. If you have another location you can get power and Ethernet....
> If you have auxiliary repeaters make sure it is associated to the main repeater of wich the devices it's for are on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can literally drag and drop and entire "room" from one main repeater to the next. You don't need to go through all that. I found out the hard way.... If you have a lot of devices in that room it might take a little time to move. select the room in the "Tree" view of the design tab and literally drag it to the second main repeater or vice versa. The same is true for keypad button programing. Also you can copy and paste single buttons, or copy (right click around the keypad on the wallplate) the entire keypad. If going to/from a different number of buttons you may lose some or do them individually. (Back up your project and play with it a training exercise)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, more like a poor-mans vacancy... If that is all you need it for, no reason for the sensor.


More good info! Will do. Sounds like drag and drop will work? I can split up.

Is it a big deal to update the main repeater? How often does Lutron update the firmware for Main Repeaters and a there really any reasons to upgrade firmware if all is working well?

How long (minutes) does it take to update the repeater and what is best practices (e.g. hard wired PC connection vs wifi to update, etc)? Do you have to reload your program or is it saved on the repeater?

Again, Thanks!~!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> ...
> 
> Is it a big deal to update the main repeater?


 No, not a big deal. Just click on upper tab (top left) "Tools" > "Update main repeater firmware"



> How often does Lutron update the firmware for Main Repeaters and a there really any reasons to upgrade firmware if all is working well?


 Usually they do firmware/software when new products or added or any major issues. It's been a while but maybe 1-2 times a year(if that). They are not scheduled, just happens when it happens. If everything is working well, you should never need to update it. But this is a double edged sword. If in the future you need to update to add a new feature and you have skipped a few versions you'll need the version of software you last were on possibly, to be able to extract it. So if you are doing your own programming keep a copy of the version of software you are currently using. You can download legacy versions of software from Lutron. I also have copies at least back to version 8. 



> How long (minutes) does it take to update the repeater and what is best practices (e.g. hard wired PC connection vs wifi to update, etc)?


 This will depend on your system, network and means of connection. My own system at home takes about 5-10minutes sometimes to do a regular program transfer. But other projects I have been on (larger) can take a lot longer. Updating the firmware only, probably should only take 5-10minutes. If you have solid wifi signal, I think it doesn't matter wifi vs. (wired) network. If you are having issues on wifi, I like to plug in to rule out the wifi. By "plug in" I mean into the network not directly to the main repeater. 




> Do you have to reload your program or is it saved on the repeater?


 If you are just doing a firmware update, you shouldn't have to transfer your job file (again) unless you are also making changes. When you do the "transfer" process it is saving the job file to the main repeater. When they launch a new software version (& in turn, usually a firmware as well) the typically offer a "read me" or pdf listing changes and current issues. I like to review these while I wait for the update.


----------



## thebland

*Regarding Lutron T-Stats. *

In the Software, it lists temps in 'ranges' or 'target Ranges'. What is this for? When I use the Lutron App, I can make precise temps (rather than ranges) and standard turn on times, etc.
Curious what the 'Target Range' is about in the software?

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *Regarding Lutron T-Stats. *
> 
> In the Software, it lists temps in 'ranges' or 'target Ranges'. What is this for? When I use the Lutron App, I can make precise temps (rather than ranges) and standard turn on times, etc.
> Curious what the 'Target Range' is about in the software?
> 
> Thanks!


If you want to set yours up like that, you can disregard that and just set up a regular schedule (timeclock) and set you days/time and you can pick that thermostat and a specific temperature. 
If you want to hit a specific heat or cool temperature you can also program a keypad button to do so, or incorporate that into a light scene as well. So you can hit that temperature only when you want, or maybe as a temporary override from your regular schedule. 
If you want it to be that precise you can also calibrate and and just the temperature offset. This will automatically add or subtract to the temperature the thermostat and/or sensors come in at. 
So if your thermostat is down stairs and you upstairs guests are being cooked, you can play with the offset so it displays what the real temperature is upstairs. Or average it out. Alternately you may consider bringing in your marriage counselor to help you agree on a temperature. (my attempt at humor)


----------



## spiwrx

Don't shoot the messenger...

From Lutron:

"
May 8, 2019

The following announcement is a change in service notification. 



Yesterday, Google announced the elimination of its Works with Nest Program, effective August 31, 2019. As a result, Lutron system integration with Nest products will be impacted, making some or all integration features inaccessible starting August 31, 2019. _Read the official Google announcement and more details from Google *here*_. 

As a member of the Works with Nest program, Lutron has offered Caséta by Lutron, RA2 Select, RadioRA 2, and HomeWorks QS customers a variety of integrated Nest features including thermostat control from the Lutron and Connect apps. Though Nest product integration will be impacted, Lutron systems will continue to be controlled by the Google Assistant through voice, the Google Home and Google Assistant apps, and through Home View on Google-enabled smart displays. 

Lutron and Google will continue working together as part of the Works with Google Assistant program, which is designed to provide customers a single smart home product control experience. As Google winds down the Works with Nest Program, Lutron will distribute integration updates and continue to provide the best Lutron experience for your home. 

You can find more information from Lutron *here*. 

Thank you for your patience, The Lutron Team
"


----------



## schalliol

I’ve never found Nest to be any good for higher-end automation anyway, but I can see why Google is trying to create a cohesive solution.

I’d really like Lutron to move RA2 forward, and they have done essentially nothing for a long time.


----------



## intake

As of last few versions of Lutron Connect app, Alexa and Google can now control fan modules, Alexa Turn on , Alexa Set Speed 1, etc. You will need to go into Alexa section of the Lutron app, and manually add the devices in, then do a device discovery in Alexa app or by voice on Alexa device.

I haven't seen this support extend to HomeKit yet.


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## HDTVNYC

spiwrx said:


> There different ways depending on your equipment to integrate Sonos, but the easiest way it to add a Sonos enable Pico. Otherwise take a look here at how to add Sonos to regular Lutron RR2 Keypads. (Note, these are multi system notes, please make sure you are following for Radio Ra 2)
> http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Lutron_Sonos_App_Note.pdf


All works well with the integration. It's also nice to be able to link scenes to Sonos functionality. I have a setting when leaving the home where all the lights shutoff and audio pauses. Unfortunately they don't specifically call out that the raise/lower buttons are restricted to only volume control when you enable it. On p17 of the guide, once you enable the toggle "enable raise/lower volume control", you can no longer use it to raise/lower any of the lighting loads. Would be helpful if they could get around this limitation. 

I think it would also be good if they could figure out how to link with Sonos where the keypad light will be illuminated if music is playing. Going to see if I can get around this limitation using a 3rd party system. 



spiwrx said:


> Dimming LED lights, I could write pages. It's the bane of my existence. Buy a good lamp, not the cheapest one. Read before you buy, make sure it says dimmable somewhere. If it has it's own button, you can only switch if from Lutron and operate by it's own control. These are some sort of gimmick lamp or really cheesey cheap import.


Haven't given the plug in dimmers a try with any LED table lamps that use a proprietary illumination, I just assumed they wouldn't work because whatever driver is built-into the lamp doesn't support line side dimming. I've had good success however if the lamp has a normal A19 screw in bulb and changing to LED. Unfortunately a lot of the higher end lights are going the way of using their own built-in LEDs (Flos, Artemide, etc) 



spiwrx said:


> I don't know why the Grafik T is on essentials either, but if you can afford them, I can help you with that. They are very $$$$


Really like the look and fortunately I don't have an insane amount of keypads to swap out. A bit on the fence about the keypads though since the amount of buttons is reduced. Bummer that L2 training is to difficult to get to. 



spiwrx said:


> I don't know about Hubitat, but read through there help community, see if they are responsive. I know you can likely set up those scenarios through HomeSeer and they have a pretty good foothold in this area already. Hubitat looks to be inexpensive but do they sdeliver at that price?? Please let us know. I think Bill on here might have it?? Can you chime in?


Haven't had a chance to pick one up yet, but planning on it. They've been very responsive with support for Lutron. One item I'm looking forward to is being able to select the dimming based on either daylight level outside or time of day. So when you turn on a room, at nighttime instead of 100% it might only go to 65%. If this works out well, it'll help reduce the amount of buttons needed (Evening, Day vs Room On)


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## spiwrx

HDTVNYC said:


> ...I think it would also be good if they could figure out how to link with Sonos where the keypad light will be illuminated if music is playing. Going to see if I can get around this limitation using a 3rd party system.


 If you are doing this with a regular keypad. You could try adding a dimmer to that button. You could also assign this to a contact on a VCRX if you have an unused one. 



Haven't given the plug in dimmers a try with any LED table lamps that use a proprietary illumination, I just assumed they wouldn't work because whatever driver is built-into the lamp doesn't support line side dimming. I've had good success however if the lamp has a normal A19 screw in bulb and changing to LED. Unfortunately a lot of the higher end lights are going the way of using their own built-in LEDs (Flos, Artemide, etc) 




> Haven't had a chance to pick one up yet, but planning on it. They've been very responsive with support for Lutron. One item I'm looking forward to is being able to select the dimming based on either daylight level outside or time of day. So when you turn on a room, at nighttime instead of 100% it might only go to 65%. If this works out well, it'll help reduce the amount of buttons needed (Evening, Day vs Room On)


 This is pretty common request. Not sure why it hasn't made it into the software but it hasn't. Exactly why you need these other 3rd party work-arounds.


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## HDTVNYC

spiwrx said:


> If you are doing this with a regular keypad. You could try adding a dimmer to that button. You could also assign this to a contact on a VCRX if you have an unused one.


Wasn't able to find a workaround with RR2 direct integration, will keep trying with a 3rd party system. Lutron integration docs mention: 
"Single action is a best practice because a RadioRA 2 system will not be able to utilize the Sonos Room status in its determination of the LED feedback for the keypad button." 

Fairly new to Sonos, but another item I struggle with Sonos is that from one song to the next, volume can change considerably which is why I find myself using the RR2 volume up/down keypads so frequently. I guess I could consider swapping to the Dual 2 button with Raise/Lower functionality for each room if I can get away with controlling all my lights and shades from just two buttons 

It seems they have been very busy with their commercial lines, Ketra and now Lutron HXL but I do hope we might get an upgrade or two before we hit 3 years  In the meantime, it's amazing having such a solid system for the home. I'd love to see Ketra integration with RR2 if Ketra can release some new retrofit bulb options!


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## spiwrx

HDTVNYC said:


> Wasn't able to find a workaround with RR2 direct integration, will keep trying with a 3rd party system. Lutron integration docs mention:
> "Single action is a best practice because a RadioRA 2 system will not be able to utilize the Sonos Room status in its determination of the LED feedback for the keypad button."



By single action I think they mean a Scene button. But you would have to just play with it and see what you can do. Try adding a dimmer on the same button as the Sonos play button. You won't get feed back from the Sonos but you will from the light thats programmed to the same button. If you have a VCRX with unused output, you should get feedback from that as well without having to see an actual light circuit come on. The flip side is this is only for an on status. Since the button is a single action (scene) it won't ever turn off without a different button. If you are trying on a regular keypad you can play around with using path or toggle. And see how the Sonos / RR2 reacts. Again, I was able to copy and past from the Sonos Audio Pico to a regular keypad each of the sonos buttons. It would be interesting to see if this works. 



Sorry, I can't help you with the Sonos Specific questions in terms of the volume.


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## mike1812

Hey all, I have a rather silly question. I realize this is the RA2 thread, but the Caseta and RA switches are nearly identical from a physical installation perspective. Can I use screw in wall plates on the Lutron switches or am I required to use a Claro plate? The issue I have is that I want to put a Caseta switch in a 2 gang box with an traditional toggle switch, and I can't find a Claro plate that is a combo 1 Decora/1 Toggle. This is in the garage, looks aren't important. I'm just replacing a failing Leviton sunset/sunrise timer switch with a Caseta switch, but I have no need to replace the garage light switch with something that cost 28X the existing toggle switch that's installed. I've looked at the Lutron instructions, but of course, they very specifically show the installation of a Claro plate.


----------



## dgage

mike1812 said:


> Hey all, I have a rather silly question. I realize this is the RA2 thread, but the Caseta and RA switches are nearly identical from a physical installation perspective. Can I use screw in wall plates on the Lutron switches or am I required to use a Claro plate? The issue I have is that I want to put a Caseta switch in a 2 gang box with an traditional toggle switch, and I can't find a Claro plate that is a combo 1 Decora/1 Toggle. This is in the garage, looks aren't important. I'm just replacing a failing Leviton sunset/sunrise timer switch with a Caseta switch, but I have no need to replace the garage light switch with something that cost 28X the existing toggle switch that's installed. I've looked at the Lutron instructions, but of course, they very specifically show the installation of a Claro plate.


Decora is a standard cover type so any Decora cover should work.


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## socalsharky

dgage said:


> Decora is a standard cover type so any Decora cover should work.


Yes, it will work. I have two installed this way in my garage.


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## mike1812

Thanks guys!


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## FlyingDiver

mike1812 said:


> I'm just replacing a failing Leviton sunset/sunrise timer switch with a Caseta switch, but I have no need to replace the garage light switch with something that cost 28X the existing toggle switch that's installed.


Or you could go to HD or Lowes and pick up a $3 Decora switch and use a standard two switch Decora cover. Depends on how hard it is to find a mixed plate.


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## mike1812

FlyingDiver said:


> Or you could go to HD or Lowes and pick up a $3 Decora switch and use a standard two switch Decora cover. Depends on how hard it is to find a mixed plate.


Nah, I have the mixed plate already in place. Just waiting for the fan controller to come in, and I will move the existing switch to the garage when I replace it with the fan controller. Just didn't know if I could actually SCREW in a standard plate into a Lutron switch. The current switch is a Leviton Decora timer switch, with a standard toggle next to it.


----------



## Anthony A.

Looking to get a RR2 system and have a few questions for you experts.

1) if i install an occupancy sensor in the bath, can it trigger a bath fan switch to automatically turn on when someone is in the room and then have a delay to turn off say 20 mins after they leave?

2) can you program any pico remote to control an all on/all off scene (ie. i would use the 2 button pico for this). I see mention of doing this with the 4 button pico but not sure if its any pico you can program to

3) can lutron custom engrave any pico or just the 4 button version?

4) the main repeater states 30 feet of coverage. Is this 30 feet diameter or 30 feet from the center outward (which would equal 60 feet diameter)

5) does the main and aux repeater need to be mounted higher than the switches or does it not matter at all as long as im inside the range? If so, I can place it in the basement and still receive signal as long as the switch above is within 30 feet high?

6) can you set automation in the software to turn on certain lights at 8:00 am and off automatically at 9pm? And/or can this be done automatically at dusk and dawn by the processor based on your location (to automatically determine time zone, daylight savings time, sunrise/sunset times based on date? 

7) can you set bath fans to turn on for 1hr every day at a specific time for 30 mins?

8) when using a remote switch (locations that have a 3-way switch for example), can I program the remote switch to turn on scenes as opposed to just the single light load it is controlling? For example, when tapping it, it would turn on 4 specific lights and turn them all off when tapped again.

9) can you program buttons on a hybrid keypad (that is controlling a light + scenes) to also have buttons that control a sonos player?

Thanks!


----------



## thebland

I have a similarly configured system with vacancy sensors, many hybrids (some powering bath fans, etc). Yes to all though can’t comment on Pico custom buttons.

Below is the 3 button Lutron Hybrid switch in a bathroom (no engraved buttons yet, no window treatments yet either ).










Below is the Lutron Occupancy Sensor tucked into corner of that bathroom that turns on light and fan for 5 min upon entering.


----------



## stevestms

Anthony A. said:


> Looking to get a RR2 system and have a few questions for you experts.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) if i install an occupancy sensor in the bath, can it trigger a bath fan switch to automatically turn on when someone is in the room and then have a delay to turn off say 20 mins after they leave?
> 
> 
> 
> 2) can you program any pico remote to control an all on/all off scene (ie. i would use the 2 button pico for this). I see mention of doing this with the 4 button pico but not sure if its any pico you can program to
> 
> 
> 
> 3) can lutron custom engrave any pico or just the 4 button version?
> 
> 
> 
> 4) the main repeater states 30 feet of coverage. Is this 30 feet diameter or 30 feet from the center outward (which would equal 60 feet diameter)
> 
> 
> 
> 5) does the main and aux repeater need to be mounted higher than the switches or does it not matter at all as long as im inside the range? If so, I can place it in the basement and still receive signal as long as the switch above is within 30 feet high?
> 
> 
> 
> 6) can you set automation in the software to turn on certain lights at 8:00 am and off automatically at 9pm? And/or can this be done automatically at dusk and dawn by the processor based on your location (to automatically determine time zone, daylight savings time, sunrise/sunset times based on date?
> 
> 
> 
> 7) can you set bath fans to turn on for 1hr every day at a specific time for 30 mins?
> 
> 
> 
> 8) when using a remote switch (locations that have a 3-way switch for example), can I program the remote switch to turn on scenes as opposed to just the single light load it is controlling? For example, when tapping it, it would turn on 4 specific lights and turn them all off when tapped again.
> 
> 
> 
> 9) can you program buttons on a hybrid keypad (that is controlling a light + scenes) to also have buttons that control a sonos player?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!




1) Yes
2) Yes, each pico can be assigned to multiple switches/dimmers it’s not a scene, but will control all switches/dimmers assigned. A better solution is seeTouch keypads and Hybrids that can be programmed in the software. 
3) I think all, but make sure to use scene picos before custom engraving. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369847.pdf
4) 30’ is the specification from main or aux repeater to switch/dimmer in a worst case scenario ( think concrete walls). Clear Connect technology is very good and will reach 2x distance with limited obstructions. 
5) Anywhere provided it’s in range. In your case I would make sure the AUX is Ethernet wired upstairs if Main will be in basement. 
6) Yes
7) Yes
8) No, RD-RS or RD-RD are wired remote switch or dimmer in a 3-way. you could add a scene Pico with pico wall mount kit and double plate or better use a seeTouch keypad. Lutron Claro plates look the best. 


RA2 requires a Lutron Pro to program system. RA2 Select is programmed by the app, but I still recommend consulting a Lutron Pro. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socalsharky

stevestms said:


> RA2 requires a Lutron Pro to program system. RA2 Select is programmed by the app, but I still recommend consulting a Lutron Pro.



Anyone can do the online training to program the RA2 system. You will get access to Essentials, but not Inclusive programming. Essentials will likely give you everything you need. The training and software are free.


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## socalsharky

Anthony A. said:


> Looking to get a RR2 system and have a few questions for you experts.
> 
> 1) if i install an occupancy sensor in the bath, can it trigger a bath fan switch to automatically turn on when someone is in the room and then have a delay to turn off say 20 mins after they leave?
> 
> 2) can you program any pico remote to control an all on/all off scene (ie. i would use the 2 button pico for this). I see mention of doing this with the 4 button pico but not sure if its any pico you can program to
> 
> 3) can lutron custom engrave any pico or just the 4 button version?
> 
> 4) the main repeater states 30 feet of coverage. Is this 30 feet diameter or 30 feet from the center outward (which would equal 60 feet diameter)
> 
> 5) does the main and aux repeater need to be mounted higher than the switches or does it not matter at all as long as im inside the range? If so, I can place it in the basement and still receive signal as long as the switch above is within 30 feet high?
> 
> 6) can you set automation in the software to turn on certain lights at 8:00 am and off automatically at 9pm? And/or can this be done automatically at dusk and dawn by the processor based on your location (to automatically determine time zone, daylight savings time, sunrise/sunset times based on date?
> 
> 7) can you set bath fans to turn on for 1hr every day at a specific time for 30 mins?
> 
> 8) when using a remote switch (locations that have a 3-way switch for example), can I program the remote switch to turn on scenes as opposed to just the single light load it is controlling? For example, when tapping it, it would turn on 4 specific lights and turn them all off when tapped again.
> 
> 9) can you program buttons on a hybrid keypad (that is controlling a light + scenes) to also have buttons that control a sonos player?
> 
> Thanks!



2) Yes. You can also use seetouch and hybrid keypads, but they are MUCH more expensive
3) Yes
4) The coverage is much greater than Lutron states. Probably more like 50 foot radius, even with minor obstructions

9) Yes


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## spiwrx

Most of these already have been answered, but here is my 2 cents... 




Anthony A. said:


> Looking to get a RR2 system and have a few questions for you experts.
> 
> 1) if i install an occupancy sensor in the bath, can it trigger a bath fan switch to automatically turn on when someone is in the room and then have a delay to turn off say 20 mins after they leave?


Yes. You can also use "rollback" without a sensor. By turning the light on manually it will "rollback" to it's previous state (off) in increments of 15minutes to 2 hours. Rollback is in the Program tab under the Occupancy section



> 2) can you program any pico remote to control an all on/all off scene (ie. i would use the 2 button pico for this). I see mention of doing this with the 4 button pico but not sure if its any pico you can program to


 Yes, but I think there was some confusion on a previous response. The PICO's only do Scenes. And you have to create this scene, it's not a "shared" scene. Here is a work-around: Use one of your regular keypads or create one temporarily, create the "Shared scene" and select (if it doesn't default) to "All Off". Then change it back to a "Single/Multi-room Scene". Now you can copy and paste that button from a the keypad to the PICO. Keep in mind, it's not shared, so if you make changes to the shared scene you will have to update the PICO Manually. Literally right click and copy, right click and paste on the respective buttons. After you copied this from your regular keypad you can change it back to a shared scene on the keypad only. 



> 4) the main repeater states 30 feet of coverage. Is this 30 feet diameter or 30 feet from the center outward (which would equal 60 feet diameter)


Yes, and it's very conservative with typical home construction. You should easily get 40-50ft with normal lumber & drywall construction in any and all directions. 




> 5) does the main and aux repeater need to be mounted higher than the switches or does it not matter at all as long as im inside the range? If so, I can place it in the basement and still receive signal as long as the switch above is within 30 feet high?


 It shouldn't matter until you get to the extremes of the range, then relocating the repeater even a couple feet could make all the difference. If you experience problems activating or transferring to these devices at the limits of range, you should add an aux. repeater. In the tools you can run diagnostics that may also help you determine which devices may have trouble with range. It's not linear, is a sphere around the main repeater. So mounted mid level on a small 3 story would be ideal. Mounting in a basement with only a single level on top should also be fine. 



> 6) can you set automation in the software to turn on certain lights at 8:00 am and off automatically at 9pm? And/or can this be done automatically at dusk and dawn by the processor based on your location (to automatically determine time zone, daylight savings time, sunrise/sunset times based on date?


 Yes, any and all you described. One common misunderstanding is you need to declare each event. In other words you need an "On" event and an "Off"event. I like to name them as such: "Porch Light On" & "Porch Light Off" are 2 of my more obvious events. You need to create your "On" time say at 30minutes previous to dusk and then create another event say 3 hours before dawn to turn them OFF. In each case you can specify any/all devices to come off or on at any level. You can also create and edit your events in the APP. 



> 7) can you set bath fans to turn on for 1hr every day at a specific time for 30 mins?


 Yes, same as above (#6) or you can use an On time schedule & rollback. Roll back will always turn it off 30 minutes (or other predetermined increment) after it's turned on. So whether you turn it on from a schedule, keypad or actual switch. The roll back will shut it off 30 minutes later. (unless another button press or time event has started within that 30 minutes) then it will reset the rollback to 30 minutes from that point. 



> 8) when using a remote switch (locations that have a 3-way switch for example), can I program the remote switch to turn on scenes as opposed to just the single light load it is controlling? For example, when tapping it, it would turn on 4 specific lights and turn them all off when tapped again.


 No. In this case use a PICO or Keypad in these other locations. A PICO in many forms could be the same or less money then a remote switch as well. In this case wire the main switch as a single pole and the remote location will be battery Powered if PICO or just continuous 120v if regular keypad. 



> 9) can you program buttons on a hybrid keypad (that is controlling a light + scenes) to also have buttons that control a sonos player?


 This is something that is possible, someone else was playing with on another post. I'm not sure how successful they were but my understanding is the buttons for the Sonos are only for that. So you could have light buttons and sonos buttons, but maybe not both on the same button, though the software allows you to do it. Haven't had anyone try or confirm this yet. Additionally apparently there is no LED status for the Sonos programmed buttons.


----------



## Anthony A.

Thank you all for the responses and help. Going to order a RR2 system.


----------



## Lindahl

Anthony A. said:


> 1) if i install an occupancy sensor in the bath, can it trigger a bath fan switch to automatically turn on when someone is in the room and then have a delay to turn off say 20 mins after they leave?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but you might not want to automatically turn on a fan. Consider if someone just wants to brush their teeth or some other non toilet reason.


----------



## bill.d

HDTVNYC said:


> Haven't had a chance to pick one up yet, but planning on it. They've been very responsive with support for Lutron. One item I'm looking forward to is being able to select the dimming based on either daylight level outside or time of day. So when you turn on a room, at nighttime instead of 100% it might only go to 65%. If this works out well, it'll help reduce the amount of buttons needed (Evening, Day vs Room On)


I'm a new forum member, and not the Bill mentioned above, but I do use Hubitat with my RadioRA 2 system. It's a good match for me. 

A few points on the platform:
1) The company is only about 18 months old, so there's a fair amount of continuous change going on. New builds 1-2 times a month.
2) One of the founders has RadioRA 2 in his house, so functionality and use cases are familiar to developers
3) The developers are really responsive to issues and (frequently) user enhancement requests
4) If you go to the community forums you will see hub lock-up issues. Almost all are due to user-developed code that is used for complex or non-base functionality use cases. If all you need is to extend a RadioRA 2 system these problems won't be an issue.

As to RadioRA 2 extension cases:
1) Like HDTVNYC noted, it's really easy to make a keypad button do different things based on conditions. Conditions can be almost anything, but for lighting will usually be a mode (which can be based on time of day). The process is:
a) set a "base" scene in Lutron software for the button. So if the Hubitat is offline from the local network (note that operation is all local, does not need Internet for Lutron) the lights will come on to a reasonable state.
b) set your other mode-based scenes up as phantom buttons. This is not technically necessary as Hubitat has its own scenes, but it prevents any popcorning of Lutron devices especially if using Pico controls.
c) in Hubitat set up the keypad in Hubitat's button controller app and choose settings per mode. Program the physical button push then virtually push the mode-based phantom button.
d) The only thing you lose is the indicator light on the keypad. It's lit only for the times that the scene in a) is active.
e) I have mine set up so that the lights automatically adjust themselves if the mode changes. This is optional.
f) Pushing that scene button in the Connect phone app will also trigger the Hubitat actions.

2) Another real easy use case is to add Philips Hue lights to a Lutron scene. In the same Hubitat Button Controller app add your Hue settings. In my house for a Movie scene the Lutron controlled lights go off and the Hue lights change from 3000K a dim blue.

3) After these simpler configurations you are likely adding devices to the system and adding complexity. The issues with the devices is that they are generally Zigbee or Z-Wave devices. So the performance issues generally become related to mesh communications problems as opposed to platform issues. A couple easy use cases for use with a Lutron system 1) if humidity increases by x% then turn on the bathroom fan (needs a humidity sensor), or 2) if leak is detected then flash the lights (needs a water sensor).

4) Another use case - it's a viable way for people to combine a Caseta system (Pro bridge required) with RadioRA 2. Hubitat becomes the "glue" between the systems.

In summary, the Hubitat platform works well with Lutron. IMO, it's probably the easiest for even most mid-complexity use cases and at about $100 certainly the most cost effective. It's at least worth trying out.


----------



## dragonian

Anthony A. said:


> 6) can you set automation in the software to turn on certain lights at 8:00 am and off automatically at 9pm? And/or can this be done automatically at dusk and dawn by the processor based on your location (to automatically determine time zone, daylight savings time, sunrise/sunset times based on date?


This case is the "killer app" that lead me to get the RA2 system in the 1st place.
I wanted the garage lights to come on at dusk at a nominal level, dim down to 5-10% at 11:30, and turn off at sunrise. 
I configured this years ago, and haven't touched it since.

I couldn't find anything else to do what I wanted.. so I went big.


----------



## schalliol

I’m concerned the software/firmware hasn’t been updated in forever. Anyone have any insights?


----------



## smoothtlk

schalliol said:


> I’m concerned the software/firmware hasn’t been updated in forever. Anyone have any insights?


Are you finding an issue that needs to be updated?
The included software does base level programming.
More advanced installations use an automation controller to do interdevice integration which requires more flexibility and compatibility.
The Lutron integration with automation controllers is solid.


----------



## schalliol

I'm not finding an issue that needs to be fixed exactly (except away mode lacks the ability to set some items not to randomize like landscape lighting), but since I haven't seen ANY new products for RR2 or updates, I'm wondering if the company is focused on it or moving passed it. The RR2 platform itself is not advancing in its logic capabilities and the system doesn't integrate well with the IP platforms. For example, if you pair a thermostat they say is compatible with it, you can't use the Home/Away modes to change the thermostat. I totally agree an automation system can do all of this, but it just seems like it's not advancing.


----------



## smoothtlk

schalliol said:


> I'm not finding an issue that needs to be fixed exactly (except away mode lacks the ability to set some items not to randomize like landscape lighting), but since I haven't seen ANY new products for RR2 or updates, I'm wondering if the company is focused on it or moving passed it. The RR2 platform itself is not advancing in its logic capabilities and the system doesn't integrate well with the IP platforms. For example, if you pair a thermostat they say is compatible with it, you can't use the Home/Away modes to change the thermostat. I totally agree an automation system can do all of this, but it just seems like it's not advancing.


RadioRa isn't an automation system. It's lighting. When coupled with a good automation system then that is what ties all together.
I wouldn't worry about RadioRa not advancing. Lighting is On / Off or Dim


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## schalliol

Eh, I'm not sure I totally agree there. Lutron does certainly integrate its own shades and thermostats, but it also controls directly Sonos, CasaTunes, Autonomic, other thermostats and has geofencing etc. I work with RTI and agree that a full automation system is ideal. I'm really noticing that after feature after feature were being added on a regular basis, it's COMPLETELY software and firmware static. The ConnectBridge/Master Repeater combo is just plain strange as well, and so I'm wondering really whether all those engineers that were working on RR2 are doing something different.

Furthermore, there are opportunities for enhancing and expanding the hardware controls. They have some great ones, but they could have other options like switched receptacles. Fortunately, I don't think there's any reason for Lutron to abandon ClearConnect, and as a reliable two-way system, it's my hope if they create a new set of repeaters that they'll keep compatibility with the RR2 controls.


----------



## Anthony A.

I just finished L1 training and downloaded essentials from the Lutron Online Training (LCI) website. However the download link only provides version 11.6. I know that there is a version 12 available and there is a note on the website saying that as long as you sign into mylutron.com within 72hrs of completing L1 course, you can upgrade the software for free. When I try to create an account on mylutron.com (my username/password from LCI does not work), it asks for a lutron account # or training code. Can anyone help or did anyone else run into this?


----------



## njmike

Anthony A. said:


> I just finished L1 training and downloaded essentials from the Lutron Online Training (LCI) website. However the download link only provides version 11.6. I know that there is a version 12 available and there is a note on the website saying that as long as you sign into mylutron.com within 72hrs of completing L1 course, you can upgrade the software for free. When I try to create an account on mylutron.com (my username/password from LCI does not work), it asks for a lutron account # or training code. Can anyone help or did anyone else run into this?


Call Lutron Customer Support. Usually you have to call them after completing L1 to get the completion added to your MyLutron account manually, so I’m sure they can help you with whatever difficulty you’re having.


----------



## Anthony A.

njmike said:


> Call Lutron Customer Support. Usually you have to call them after completing L1 to get the completion added to your MyLutron account manually, so I’m sure they can help you with whatever difficulty you’re having.


Thanks, I emailed them and they gave me access to 12.0 version.


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## spiwrx

Sidetracking...

The dog ate the remote, literally, new puppy thought it was a chew toy. So what remotes are you guys using? I have a relativity simple system, just cable box, Samsung series 6 TV and a Blueray player, I don't care if it works my RR2 or not, we're mainly using Alexa for that. Tried some APP based stuff on my phone but not impressed with how long it takes to open app, establish connection, etc... 

Last time I bought a "universal" remote it was a Pronto. I don't need a touch screen and don't really want to spend more then $100, leaning towards some version of the Harmony but asking for recommendations


----------



## rapamatic

I don’t think there is much better than a harmony unless you can get the dealer-only RTI or URC stuff. Lots of remote options with hard buttons, RF. Pretty good ergonomics. At least on the higher end ones nice easy config in the app. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> Sidetracking...
> 
> The dog ate the remote, literally, new puppy thought it was a chew toy. So what remotes are you guys using? I have a relativity simple system, just cable box, Samsung series 6 TV and a Blueray player, I don't care if it works my RR2 or not, we're mainly using Alexa for that. Tried some APP based stuff on my phone but not impressed with how long it takes to open app, establish connection, etc...
> 
> Last time I bought a "universal" remote it was a Pronto. I don't need a touch screen and don't really want to spend more then $100, leaning towards some version of the Harmony but asking for recommendations



If you're looking for something basic but highly functional, you can't beat the Harmony 665. It has an LCD screen, but is not touchscreen. IR only. Also, it uses disposable batteries, not a charging stand. I have this one for a TV/Cable Box/External speaker, and it works great. Adding a Blu-ray player would be no problem. You program it on your PC and then transfer the programming via a USB cable. 

https://smile.amazon.com/Logitech-9...s=harmony+650&qid=1564176089&s=gateway&sr=8-7


If you want to go high end, you can get the Elite, which I have in my media room. Touch screen, highly programmable, rechargeable, includes an iPhone app, and a hub. It will also control Bluetooth devices like a Fire Stick.
https://smile.amazon.com/Logitech-H...armony+elite&qid=1564176347&s=gateway&sr=8-16


There is a good review of these remotes on Wirecutter:
https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/the-best-universal-remote-control/


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## dgage

I have several of the Logitech 650s as I didn’t want/need full featured remotes on most of my TVs. The 650 is no longer sold, so look at the 660/665. Nice remote with a screen and buttons for lesser used functions, which should cover most needs that don’t want something fancier. You still use Logitech software to program so you have some basic functionality you can setup when selecting “Watch TV” or “Watch Movie”. I’m pretty sure it will also interact with the Harmony Hub if you wanted more intelligence. You can also interface Alexa with the Harmony Hub to turn on the TV, change volume, channels, etc.


----------



## freeoscar

spiwrx said:


> Sidetracking...
> 
> The dog ate the remote, literally, new puppy thought it was a chew toy. So what remotes are you guys using? I have a relativity simple system, just cable box, Samsung series 6 TV and a Blueray player, I don't care if it works my RR2 or not, we're mainly using Alexa for that. Tried some APP based stuff on my phone but not impressed with how long it takes to open app, establish connection, etc...
> 
> Last time I bought a "universal" remote it was a Pronto. I don't need a touch screen and don't really want to spend more then $100, leaning towards some version of the Harmony but asking for recommendations


I use the Harmony companion. Usually $60 or $70 from Best Buy. It is a screen free remote with the hub. Only issue is the buttons are a little small, and the remote itself only has RF, not IR, so you need to make sure the hub (which emits the IR) is properly place or you need extenders. It's sometimes nice to have the 'smart' features like google/alexa integration (they have Caseta, but not RR2), or in a pinch you can pull up the app on your phone when you can't find the remote (kids!). You can program for 1 button use - so watching a DVD you just press a button and it will automatically switch inputs and be set for your DVD remote. Battery life is very good too.


----------



## ksalno

spiwrx said:


> Sidetracking...
> 
> The dog ate the remote, literally, new puppy thought it was a chew toy. So what remotes are you guys using? I have a relativity simple system, just cable box, Samsung series 6 TV and a Blueray player, I don't care if it works my RR2 or not, we're mainly using Alexa for that. Tried some APP based stuff on my phone but not impressed with how long it takes to open app, establish connection, etc...
> 
> Last time I bought a "universal" remote it was a Pronto. I don't need a touch screen and don't really want to spend more then $100, leaning towards some version of the Harmony but asking for recommendations


If you use Apple devices and your devices are all controllable via IP, then Simple Control is great. It can do IR devices as well but you need to buy a $90 blaster for that. It is capable of doing much more, so it can grow with your needs over time. It has a Siri interface but not sure about Alexa. It can also control RA2 lighting, so easy to setup scenes that include both your AV and lights in one button push.


----------



## bill.d

spiwrx said:


> Last time I bought a "universal" remote it was a Pronto. I don't need a touch screen and don't really want to spend more then $100, leaning towards some version of the Harmony but asking for recommendations


Logitech remote with real buttons and hub to connect to Alexa - "Alexa turn on ESPN" "Alexa turn off the TV" etc. 

I'm too new to past a url, but go to Amazon and search for B00ZYIFXSM. It's renewed, but


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## spiwrx

any of you use or have experience with a simple device to send SMS or Email notification for a switch closure and power failure. I need to monitor a pump and some of the commercial solutions are extremely costly or way over the top for the simple demands here.


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## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> any of you use or have experience with a simple device to send SMS or Email notification for a switch closure and power failure. I need to monitor a pump and some of the commercial solutions are extremely costly or way over the top for the simple demands here.


Although targeted for sump pumps, the level sense pro would work - it essentially monitors two contact closures, humidity, and temp. You can also get alerts when the device stops communicating with the level sense cloud service, which either means 1) internet is down or 2) power is out. I think its around $200.

I have used one for a year or two to monitor a sump pit in my basement.

https://www.level-sense.com/

-Ray


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## spiwrx

rapamatic said:


> Although targeted for sump pumps, the level sense pro would work - it essentially monitors two contact closures, humidity, and temp. You can also get alerts when the device stops communicating with the level sense cloud service, which either means 1) internet is down or 2) power is out. I think its around $200.
> 
> I have used one for a year or two to monitor a sump pit in my basement.
> 
> https://www.level-sense.com/
> 
> -Ray



Perfect, I knew one of you would come through. Thanks!


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## socalsharky

spiwrx said:


> Perfect, I knew one of you would come through. Thanks!



Your Homeseer system could also serve as the notification hub, if you can find the right sensors. There should be many options in that regard.


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## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> Your Homeseer system could also serve as the notification hub, if you can find the right sensors. There should be many options in that regard.


Not in my home, but I didn't even think of that. I would need some HA enable sensor. This is a great but probably a little complicated for who it is for. The LevelSense above I think will work perfectly and in the budget. Thanks!!


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## smoothtlk

There are lots of sensors for liquid sensing that are Zwave / Zigbee or via the security system integration (like an ELK) that can trigger a message to the automation system.
It's then trivial to send an SMS / email (or both) through a good automation system.


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## spiwrx

In case you didn't see this in you email, this was just sent by Lutron to System users (_Copy & Pasted from their email_)

*"Note: This update only impacts customers that own or plan to purchase Nest products (thermostats, cameras, CO detectors, etc). If you do not own or plan to own Nest products, your system will not be affected, and you may disregard this email. *

Google has recently started inviting Nest customers to switch their Nest accounts to Google accounts. If you use a Lutron App* to work with or control Nest products and you wish to keep doing so, DO NOT CONVERT YOUR NEST ACCOUNT TO A GOOGLE ACCOUNT.

Google is removing the ability for other smart home brands, including Lutron, to work directly with Nest devices. They are unifying their smart home experience under a single platform, Works with Google Assistant. According to Google, they will build Nest functionality into the Google Assistant over time, but we don’t know when or if they will replicate everything Lutron can currently do with Nest.

So, if you wish to continue using features like controlling your Nest thermostat from the Lutron app or having your lights set to come on when your Nest smoke alarm goes off, do not convert your Nest account to a Google account.

Lutron will continue to work with Google during this transition and will provide you with updates to ensure the best Lutron experience for your smart home.

*Learn More*

Lutron’s Nest FAQs

Google’s Nest Updates

_*Lutron systems impacted include Caséta, RA2 Select, RadioRA 2, and HomeWorks"_


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## spiwrx

I was just made aware there is a new RR2 dimmer, called the PRO or LED+ depending on what you are reading. (p/n RRD-PRO-(color)). This is a lower price point phase select-able dimmer (Compare to RRD-6NA) you can use with or without a neutral, but if you need this model, you likely need the neutral connection as well. This means a software update which you may like or hate, but read carefully before upgrading especially if you have integrations:
_(Reminder you do not have to update if don't want to, but if you are still building on your system or plan to, I would stay up to date on software)_

From the 12.2 release notes:

*New in 12.2*
New Features 
1. Support Maestro LED+ Dimmer: Added support for the new phase selectable Maestro LED+ Dimmer for simpler dimmer specification and installation. 
2. Data Privacy Compliance: Removed default credentials, requiring username/password to be manually configured for integration. _This is really simple to do, if you haven't poked around in there before. I will write another post with a little tutorial a little later today (after I dl & update my system)_ 
3. Support for 0-10V and Switching PowPak modules in Essentials: These products are now available in both Inclusive and Essentials. _~~~Nice they finally moved this... _
4. Remove Support for LHC+ Mobile App: Details are provided to the user of the app for upgrading to the Lutron Connect app which provides an updated user experience without a subscription.
_~~~not sure how this will work, but I can't imagine they will force you to buy a connect. Not real clear what "without subscription" really means, I have my thoughts but they are just that current, hopefully more on this soon... _


Improvements
1. Fixed an issue where unengraved Grafik T Keypads were ordered with the wrong faceplate.
2. Fixed an issue where MA-T51 and SC-1PS could not be ganged with MSC-600M-MS.
3. System stabilization improvements.


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## spiwrx

The 12.2 software does not show the default user/password like the previous versions did, so for any integrations you will now have to setup a user and password. They say this is a security concern, I let you decide for yourself how you want to address it but here is what I know and maybe just a reminder to you. I would imagine if you setup a user yourself with the defaults you should be back in business. Here are some reminders on how to:



Previous versions 12.1 and earlier, default user and password I believe were "lutron" / "integration" if I'm wrong please someone correct me. Might also try lutron / lutron, default / 1234 or just create your own and update it in whatever you are integrating with.
If you haven't already, take a look in the top left menu tabs (all pages) in the RR2 software:
File / Tools / Settings / Reports / Help
Select Setting and integration
In previous versions it said: "default home control + user" and "pre-configured" password
In 12.2 there is nothing predefined.
Click the + icon at the bottom and create a new login.
Now I'm not going to go click by click you should have it from here, but also see here you can limit what each user can do. In terms of button editing and timeclock schedules. Doubel click on the "Add/ Edit" and you can limit their permissions. Additionally you can hit the ID's tab and limit device you want to show on the APP. Maybe you have a porch light you only ever want on a timeclock, you can remove it from integrations and it won't show up on the APP.


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## schalliol

Thanks for posting this update. I saw info about the new dimmer from a distributor, but it wasn't clear to me if it was just a relabeling of the old 6NA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all neutral dimmers for RR2 _require_ the neutral (vs optional as mentioned for this new one).

Any idea if any dimmers are being discontinued as a result of this inclusion? I'm finding the 6CL seems to work a bit better than the 6ND, when a NA isn't required.

I think this was a record amount of time for the software without an update!


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## highnoon

> Remove Support for LHC+ Mobile App: Details are provided to the user of the app for upgrading to the Lutron Connect app which provides an updated user experience without a subscription.
> ~~~not sure how this will work, but I can't imagine they will force you to buy a connect. Not real clear what "without subscription" really means, I have my thoughts but they are just that current, hopefully more on this soon...


I am curious how this is going to work -- It does sound like the connect is going to be required.


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## thebland

Is this for Inclusive' too?

Do you have to sign in to Lutron.com, download a new program, get code form Lutron to install, etc to upgrade or can you do without logging in? 

Thanks.


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## schalliol

You install the software on top of the old. It retains registration


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## Mathelo

spiwrx said:


> I was just made aware there is a new RR2 dimmer, called the PRO or LED+ depending on what you are reading. (p/n RRD-PRO-(color)). This is a lower price point phase select-able dimmer (Compare to RRD-6NA) you can use with or without a neutral, but if you need this model, you likely need the neutral connection as well.


Is the RRD-PRO available? I don't see it online anywhere.

Louis


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## Mathelo

Is there someone here that sells Lutron RadioRA2? I need to buy components.

Louis


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## schalliol

Spiwrx does. Hanks Electric.


----------



## Bigus

I have tested a RRD-6CL and RRD-6ND dimmer with a number of LED bulbs in combinations from 1 to 6 bulbs, all BR30 65W or 75W spanning from 2700K to 4000K.

The best bulbs with the 6ND are a Philips 2700K warm glow 65W claiming to be a great dimmable LED (it is, but looks even warmer than 2700K to me) and a Maxxima 65W (edit-it's 75W)

Both of those work well with the 6CL, in addition to a great eagle 65W (edit-it's 75W). The great eagle with the 6ND was not nearly as good, flicker at lower light levels I think, but is almost perfect with the 6CL at all but the very lowest light output (hint of flicker there). The Philips and Maxxima may have been slightly better at dimming to low levels with the 6ND but are still definitely usable with the 6CL.

Others inuding TCP, Maxlite, Amazon basics, hyperikon etc all had problems with flicker, buzz, poor dimming behavior or some combination.

Questions:
Is there any compelling reason to use the 6ND over the 6CL? Seems like it should be better with LED's but doesn't really seem to be. This is new construction so have the neutral available everywhere.

Any suggestions on a good higher wattage BR30 bulb? Don't think any of the 75W I tried were really that good. With 12 foot ceilings the extra output would be nice. (Edit, never mind, I lost track in my notes which were 65W and which 75W, turns out two of the better bulbs are 75W).

Anyone have any experience yet with the new pro-led dimmer?


----------



## smoothtlk

Bigus said:


> Any suggestions on a good higher wattage BR30 bulb? Don't think any of the 75W I tried were really that good. With 12 foot ceilings the extra output would be nice.


My office (where I am now) is about 24 x 14 with 10 ft ceiling. White ceiling and tan sidewalls and darker cherry furniture. I have 6 BR30s. My wife would say they are WAY too bright even though they are soft color. Any BR30 x 6 LEDs are very bright in this room. So, depends on the density of lights and colors etc.


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## Bigus

Good to know. Largest room with 12' ceiling is probably kitchen at about 23' x 21' with 6 cans but there are a couple of hanging lights over island and breakfast table and worklights over sink so maybe that's fine at 60W. I'd rather have more light available and dial it back but sounds like maybe not a big concern.


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## Bigus

Well dang, was just going through my notes and went back to order history to look at cost per bulb and realized both the Maxxima and great eagle bulbs are 75W. That's good. So scratch that last question!


----------



## thebland

*Shade Controller Question *

I have LUTRON Shades going in next week. What is the best type of controller to put in the room with the shades? The room has 5 shades and I don't need to control each shade individually. I'd like one button to control 2 shades, another button to control another 2 shades, and a 3rd button to control 1 shade and, perhaps, a 4th button to control all.

What are most using? I have a powered, unused single gang box for this. Have RR2.

Thanks!


----------



## dgage

thebland said:


> *Shade Controller Question *
> 
> I have LUTRON Shades going in next week. What is the best type of controller to put in the room with the shades? The room has 5 shades and I don't need to control each shade individually. I'd like one button to control 2 shades, another button to control another 2 shades, and a 3rd button to control 1 shade and, perhaps, a 4th button to control all.
> 
> What are most using? I have a powered, unused single gang box for this. Have RR2.
> 
> Thanks!


What about one of these keypads with multiple buttons, one for each shade plus one for all shades and then an up/down for controlling the individual shades. I haven’t use shades with these keypads, only lights so I don’t know if there are any peculiarities with shade usage. But with lights, you turn one on/off via a keypad to whatever the default setting is and then if you want to modify, you can turn it up/down with the arrows.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/products/Pages/components/radiora2designerseetouchkeypad/overview.aspx


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## rapamatic

For most of my shades I use a single shade toggle button. Press it once, shade starts closing, press it again shade stops, press again shade starts opening, press it again shade stops. I'd suggest one of those buttons for each set of shades, then maybe a preset for all open and/or all closed (if those would be used)... 

I don't know your specific use case, but it might be tedious to have to press three different buttons just to open or close all the shades (but maybe that isn't a typical use case).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Swancoat

I've got a question for the experts here:

So I'm helping a friend put a RadioRa2 setup in his house. Basically doing the entire place and for the most part it's pretty straightforward, with the exception of one implementation: He's got a fairly large house and a horse barn out back. When he built it there was a 3-way switch run to a set of lights in some stalls in the horse barn, so he can control them from the horse barn, or the back door of the house. Initially, I thought this would be no problem, just use an 8ANS, with an RD-RS in the barn - problem solved... Until I remembered that the actual switch has to be on the load side. So it would have to have the 8ANS in the barn, and the RD-RS in the house. However, this barn is probably a couple of hundred feet away, so I don't think the ClearConnect signal will reach in even the most optimistic scenario.

Any ideas on how to implement this load in the system?


----------



## rapamatic

Swancoat said:


> I've got a question for the experts here:
> 
> 
> 
> So I'm helping a friend put a RadioRa2 setup in his house. Basically doing the entire place and for the most part it's pretty straightforward, with the exception of one implementation: He's got a fairly large house and a horse barn out back. When he built it there was a 3-way switch run to a set of lights in some stalls in the horse barn, so he can control them from the horse barn, or the back door of the house. Initially, I thought this would be no problem, just use an 8ANS, with an RD-RS in the barn - problem solved... Until I remembered that the actual switch has to be on the load side. So it would have to have the 8ANS in the barn, and the RD-RS in the house. However, this barn is probably a couple of hundred feet away, so I don't think the ClearConnect signal will reach in even the most optimistic scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas on how to implement this load in the system?




Can you use a non-neutral dimmer (6D or 10D) for the lighting load in the barn? With those dimmers, the actual dimmer switch does not need to be on the load side...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## freeoscar

I admit I'm not an electrician, but in a 3-way switch aren't both sides load bearing? I mean, right now he presumably has 2 dumb switches and they both operate the load.


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## rapamatic

freeoscar said:


> I admit I'm not an electrician, but in a 3-way switch aren't both sides load bearing? I mean, right now he presumably has 2 dumb switches and they both operate the load.




Unfortunately not, at least according to their wiring schematics.











Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bigus

Any thoughts on my experience and question regarding 6CL vs 6ND dimmers?


----------



## Swancoat

rapamatic said:


> Can you use a non-neutral dimmer (6D or 10D) for the lighting load in the barn? With those dimmers, the actual dimmer switch does not need to be on the load side...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So, after talking with him a bit more, it seems like this might be pretty easy. He's pretty sure that the lights in the barn are fed from the barn's circuit panel (which makes sense). This means there's got to be be at least 3 wires (not including the neutral) to include the house switch in the circuit, and bring the load back to the barn. So I think an RD-RD in the barn and whatever required dimmer in the house. I haven't yet had a chance to open up the box and check. I'm not ENTIRELY certain it's like this. The switch in the house is in a 4 gang box. And the house is new enough that neutrals should be everywhere. Is there a neutral going from the barn to the house (AND BACK?). Can neutrals from different supplies like that even be in the same box code-wise (I'm very much not an electrician, and this is maybe totally fine, and maybe totally not fine. Just seems pretty suspect to me).


----------



## spiwrx

freeoscar said:


> I admit I'm not an electrician, but in a 3-way switch aren't both sides load bearing? I mean, right now he presumably has 2 dumb switches and they both operate the load.


If it were traditional switching, yes you are correct, but in this case the Companion Dimmers and Switches do not bare the actual load, and for the Neutral connected device in Lutron the Load side of the 3 or 4-way has to be where the actual dimmer/switch is.


----------



## spiwrx

Swancoat said:


> So, after talking with him a bit more, it seems like this might be pretty easy. He's pretty sure that the lights in the barn are fed from the barn's circuit panel (which makes sense). This means there's got to be be at least 3 wires (not including the neutral) to include the house switch in the circuit, and bring the load back to the barn. So I think an RD-RD in the barn and whatever required dimmer in the house. I haven't yet had a chance to open up the box and check. I'm not ENTIRELY certain it's like this. The switch in the house is in a 4 gang box. And the house is new enough that neutrals should be everywhere. Is there a neutral going from the barn to the house (AND BACK?). Can neutrals from different supplies like that even be in the same box code-wise (I'm very much not an electrician, and this is maybe totally fine, and maybe totally not fine. Just seems pretty suspect to me).


You got it. If it's traditionally 3-way wired you have enough wires for a non-neutral device at least. However be cautious in a 3-way wiring. The White wire is often used for one of the travelers but should be marked as such in the boxes. Tell-tale is the neutral used as a traveler (3-way wiring) should be marked or shoot your electrician, should be connected to a switch only and not to any other neutrals. If you see a bundle of neutrals spliced together, you should be able to assume they are your grounded conductor(s) and able to use as such for the Neutral connected devices. 



Don't forget there is a non-neutral switch also, RRD-8S-DV you could place on either end.


----------



## spiwrx

A couple great questions lately, and somehow I'm not getting notifications from AVS again. Anyway looks like most questions are ironed out. I didn't address it but there are a couple interesting keypads configurations specific for shades. Pages back (page 68) I posted a couple screens shots showing all the keypad configurations but if you find the engraving sheet for your keypad or pico (luton.com/engraving) and load it into adobe (_it may or may not work in your browser)_ when you select you options, the document is interactive and you should see a representation of it as you change from 3 button to 5 button, etc... Additionally if you have the design or programming software you can obviously see them there as well. 

I've been getting a lot of emails for the PRO dimmer and we have only had it for a couple weeks. I don't have a lot of feed back yet, none actually, but no news is usually good news in this case. It has a fairly low 25watt non-neutral minimum which is great, but if you need the ELV, aka Reverse Phase, aka Trailing Edge or 5watt minimum you still need the neutral. Likely we'll see the 6NA go away, and perhaps the 6CL as well but just speculation at this point, don't quote me.... It's available now. 

Here are some of the specifics:


----------



## Bigus

I'll throw it out there one more time just in case someone with experience overlooked it.

Any thoughts on 6ND vs 6CL? My use is new construction so have neutral available everywhere. I ordered a dozen or more bulbs that were reportedly good dimmers and tested with both. I found 2 good with the 6ND, and both of those plus one or two more good with the 6CL. By good I mean no detectable flicker, reasonably low dimming level and minimal if any buzz at 1ft distance. I think the 6CL was as good in those qualities as the 6ND. I would have thought the 6ND would be superior though.

Are my results typical? Is there something I'm overlooking or some other reason not to deploy several dozen 6CL dimmers in a new construction?


----------



## thebland

Bigus said:


> I'll throw it out there one more time just in case someone with experience overlooked it.
> 
> Any thoughts on 6ND vs 6CL? My use is new construction so have neutral available everywhere. I ordered a dozen or more bulbs that were reportedly good dimmers and tested with both. I found 2 good with the 6ND, and both of those plus one or two more good with the 6CL. By good I mean no detectable flicker, reasonably low dimming level and minimal if any buzz at 1ft distance. I think the 6CL was as good in those qualities as the 6ND. I would have thought the 6ND would be superior though.
> 
> Are my results typical? Is there something I'm overlooking or some other reason not to deploy several dozen 6CL dimmers in a new construction?


Why not just go all 6ND? We did new construction and why not use the neutrals you have. I'd imagine it'd be more stable over time. I have 20 or more 6NDs all around the house. All good.

I installed Lutron blinds and boy are they nice (pre-wired for them). Ultra quiet!


----------



## Bigus

thebland said:


> Why not just go all 6ND? We did new construction and why not use the neutrals you have. I'd imagine it'd be more stable over time. I have 20 or more 6NDs all around the house. All good.
> 
> I installed Lutron blinds and boy are they nice (pre-wired for them). Ultra quiet!


I had planned on going all 6ND but thought I'd test both that and the 6CL with a variety of bulbs.

If it were truly equal I'd still go with the 6ND, but to be honest I felt like a great eagle bulb with the 6CL gave the best performance of any combination, and that bulb is relatively inexpensive to boot.

I do worry a little about bulb manufacturers and models changing over time and maybe future bulb options are more likely to have good results with the 6ND? Or maybe there is something else I'm overlooking?

On paper the 6ND seems like the way to go. My real world testing has me second guessing.


----------



## thebland

Bigus said:


> I had planned on going all 6ND but thought I'd test both that and the 6CL with a variety of bulbs.
> 
> If it were truly equal I'd still go with the 6ND, but to be honest I felt like a great eagle bulb with the 6CL gave the best performance of any combination, and that bulb is relatively inexpensive to boot.
> 
> I do worry a little about bulb manufacturers and models changing over time and maybe future bulb options are more likely to have good results with the 6ND? Or maybe there is something else I'm overlooking?
> 
> On paper the 6ND seems like the way to go. My real world testing has me second guessing.


Yep. I get it. I did real world testing with a number of bulbs using the Lutron tool at their website. Another finding was that the more bulbs / cans you had on a zone / circuit, the better the dimming. For example, I tried 6 LED bulbs on one switch and then pulled out 4 of them so only 2 remained on that zone and the dimming was not so great. In the end we used LED integrated cans and the dim super nice!


----------



## Bigus

I'm making sure to test with anywhere from 1 to 5 bulbs at a time as load (I only bought five bases for some reason, even though some rooms will have 6 on a circuit).

I thought about integrated cans. Was a little worried about finding exact matches down the road. Too late (practically) now, cans are all installed and wired.


----------



## thebland

Bigus said:


> I'm making sure to test with anywhere from 1 to 5 bulbs at a time as load (I only bought five bases for some reason, even though some rooms will have 6 on a circuit).
> 
> I thought about integrated cans. Was a little worried about finding exact matches down the road. Too late (practically) now, cans are all installed and wired.


We chose integrated as the look is cleaner, bezels smaller. Yeah, if some go bad, I'd have to replace a zone. But, I hope they last the rated 10K hours!!


----------



## thebland

*RE: Lutron Shade Programming*

I had some shades installed and they work great. The installer put the shades on a toggle. How do I program discrete commands like 'down' or 'up'? FOr example, when turning off lights at night, I want shades to go down.

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *RE: Lutron Shade Programming*
> 
> I had some shades installed and they work great. The installer put the shades on a toggle. How do I program discrete commands like 'down' or 'up'? FOr example, when turning off lights at night, I want shades to go down.
> 
> Thanks!


Shades are treated just like lights in the RR2 software. They are either 0% or 100% (or somewhere in between). 
You could add them to an existing scene or a new button. Use them in conjunction with lights or not. 
Say you had a "Good Night" Scene Button you could have them fade you lights off and close the shades on the same button. 
I don't like this unless you have spare buttons, but it makes sense in some application. 
Mostly my shades are on a time schedule on their own and I have buttons to manually adjust them at will.


----------



## spiwrx

Ok, so the topic of the day way dedicated(proprietary) vs. standardized housing for LED lights. We sell a lot of lighting, and getting parts down the road is typically difficult, especially now with LED and they have yet to come out with standardized/universal driver. So each manufacturer and even different models from same manufacturers use different drivers. It's not just a 12v transformer anymore, most are constant current in a many different ma ratings, and working at a range of voltages, matching these specs is rarely easy or possible other then ordering it straight from the OEM. 

Standards like JA8 are now being set forth to guarantee a minimum set of performance requirements including dimming. This doesn't mean they need to do 1% dimming but they need to meet minimum guidelines to carry the rating and requirement in some areas. 

The trend in manufacturing is to remove the driver all together. Diodes are available in higher voltages now so smaller arrays are required and they are getting better and cheaper. 
Traditionally the dedicated model was the housing held a dedicated driver for the LED module, this made sense as first versions still required huge heat sinks. Later this model continued because the best dimming performance came from this model. Now we can get 5% or better from a universals or retrofit module if you are willing to pay for it, but still the prices are coming down and performance and color is better. 

You have to remember LED coming to lighting was a huge flip in technology that hadn't been touched since Edison handed us the incandescent bulb. Sure we had fluorescent and HID, but this was more reserved to commercial applications until energy savings was more or less mandated and pushed the LED forward. 

The current trend in LED is either a switch on the LED light to adjust the color temperature so you can decide later if you want 2700k, 3000k, 5000k, etc and not have to replace your lights. Additionally we are seeing LED that mimic incandescent by warming when you dim. This seems greats but opens up another set of problems in trying to control them. Yes they work on a LED dimmer, but getting multiple to sync and stay on track isn't 100% yet. For the most part I think people are getting use to lights that don't warm(color) as they dim. I don't think it's such a bad thing but a warm light is still more comfortable to relax under in my opinion. 

Another one in the commercial spectrum is an LED that has 2 controls, one for dimming and another dimmer for color. 

One more is integrated controls in the LED where as you could supply them from a single circuit and within an APP or special control you can address and group or zone each light. This is available now, but you could not use this with a dimmer or Radio Ra, you have to only switch and control from APP or Proprietary control. 



So it was discussed a few thread back, but even though the high end lights are using the dedicated model, you can get great quality lights from a retrofit type product and standard housing keeping al the maintenance simply plug and play.


----------



## Bigus

The Philips soft white dimmable LED (I tested BR30 I think) had a really nice warming as it dims effect with both RR-6CL and RRD-6ND dimmers. FWIW for anyone interested.


----------



## HDTVNYC

spiwrx said:


> The trend in manufacturing is to remove the driver all together. Diodes are available in higher voltages now so smaller arrays are required and they are getting better and cheaper.


Thanks for all this info. I have noticed there is an uptick in 120V LED Strip (driverless) which is very interesting since you don't have to hide a driver somewhere. Has anyone tried these out and had any luck using a plug-in type dimmer, such as the RR2 plug-in dimmer? They come with 2 prong plugs, so wondering if it would work. I have so many areas it would be helpful for retrofit. 

As for Dim-To-Warm, recently upgraded some Halo lights to their newer Dim-To-Warm module (ML4), they are awesome. Works very well with the 6CL dimmer where I didn't have a neutral, I can get to about 7% on the low end. Very high CRI and dimming curve with color is impressive.


----------



## spiwrx

I have had one report of customer upgrading to latest iPhone iOS and losing support for Home Control + app. If you do not have a connect bridge and are using the Home Control + APP I would not update your iOS. Lutron did discontinue support for this APP and it seems the APP is not compatible with latest iOS (my assumption, I don't have anything official to report), not sure if/when android is also effected. Lutron told him he had to upgrade to Connect APP and buy a Connect Bridge. 

If you have a connect bridge and using the connect APP this should not effect you. 

Also, 12.4 versions software is out
From release notes:
New in 12.4
Stability Improvements: 
1. PHPM-PA: Fixed an issue where a PHPM-PA was getting added when using a control other than the RRD-PRO. 
2. RRD-6CL: Fixed an issue where the RRD-6CL did not show up as an option when selecting a LED/CRL/INC dimmer.


----------



## Les Auber

FWIW Home + seems to be working fine on my iPhone x and iOS 13.2.3. Of course I've probably just jinxed myself.


----------



## spiwrx

More vague info from Lutron:
The Home Control+ / Home+ app will not work with HWQS systems version 15.0 and above, or RA2 12.2 and above.

So maybe not so much the iOS version as it is the RR2 software version. 

Please note, if you are not adding anything and your system is working it's not necessary to upgrade. Updates do provide some bug fixes but mostly to add new product s or features. 

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/LHCplus-migration-webpage.pdf


----------



## thebland

As a follow up, I installed 60/70 total switches, 4 thermostats, 2 Grafik Eyes, 6 shades, motions, etc and the system just works awesome. I’ve been in the house for 6 months. Super fast and reliable. Easy to use and intuitive. Wife loves it. The keypads and Hybrid keypads look slick and function perfectly. The programming is simple and intuitive. 

I had ZWave before via Honeywell and the experience was the complete opposite.

Lutron is such a major step up from ZWave. Big fan!


----------



## JP14

I created a new post, but haven't seen any responses - maybe because it was a bit long. Posting just the Lutron Radio RA2 questions here.

Long story short - a friend bought a house with a Lutron Radio RA2 system in it, and he'd like to reprogram some things. I have almost no knowledge of Lutron, so a few questions to help him get started.

1) Can he do all of the programming through the Home Control app, or does he need to take the training (lutron.learn.com) and download the PC Essentials software? The training is roughly 2 hours long? Does he need anything from the original purchaser to register? He wants to change the lighting settings for some scenes, and then create new scenes/buttons, including Sonos control.
2) Can I assume that both of these tools will be able to load the current config from the running system? Or does he need to reach out to the installer to get the current running config before he can modify anything?
3) I'm 99% sure there's a Lutron Connect Bridge installed, but I need him to verify this. Any special steps he'll need to take to gain access to this for remote access? Does the previous owner need to grant him access, or can he take control of it with only the information on the unit (serial, MAC address, etc.)? 
4) He also has some Sonos units - would he program this integration using the PC Essentials software, or some other tool? He's looking to add basic things like power on/off, vol up/down to the existing keypads in the different rooms.
5) Same thing but for IFTTT - anything that needs to be done through PC Essentials or is it all managed through the IFTTT website/app?
6) When creating new scenes/programming for the keypads, can he initiate the order for the new buttons within the Essentials software, or does he need to reach out to a Lutron reseller? Can he order individual new buttons and slide those into unused spots on the keypads, or does he need to order all of the buttons as a set for each keypad?

Thanks in advance


----------



## FlyingDiver

1. I don't think you can do significant programming with the Home Control App. You need the software. I would say 2-4 hours for the on-line training. 

2. Depending on what version of the software was last used to program the repeater, he MIGHT be able to extract the programming file from the repeater. If that doesn't work, and he can't get the programming file from the installer, he'll need to start from scratch. You can't make changes to a running system without the complete programming file.

3. Don't know, don't have a Connect Bridge.

4. I think that's in Essentials, but I'm not sure. I have Inclusive.

5. I don't think there's anything in Essentials/Inclusive for IFTTT, that's in the Connect Bridge or just on IFTTT.

6. You mean new labels (engraving) on the buttons? The buttons come as a complete set, you can't get individual ones. It's actually a kind of faceplate for the unit, they snap on/off. Changing the number of buttons is a new faceplate too. You create the engraving order in the software, but you need a prepaid engraving certificate (or certificate number) to actually order the new one. That you need to get from a dealer. Then you submit the order with a cert number for each faceplate to Lutron.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> I have had one report of customer upgrading to latest iPhone iOS and losing support for Home Control + app. If you do not have a connect bridge and are using the Home Control + APP I would not update your iOS. Lutron did discontinue support for this APP and it seems the APP is not compatible with latest iOS (my assumption, I don't have anything official to report), not sure if/when android is also effected. Lutron told him he had to upgrade to Connect APP and buy a Connect Bridge.
> 
> If you have a connect bridge and using the connect APP this should not effect you.
> 
> Also, 12.4 versions software is out
> From release notes:
> New in 12.4
> Stability Improvements:
> 1. PHPM-PA: Fixed an issue where a PHPM-PA was getting added when using a control other than the RRD-PRO.
> 2. RRD-6CL: Fixed an issue where the RRD-6CL did not show up as an option when selecting a LED/CRL/INC dimmer.


Maybe a basic question, but I cannot find an RD-RD Maestro companion dimmer switch in the design software to add companions to various rooms (to keep track of them). Where can I find this switch in the design software so I can attach them to the dimmer in 3 way and 4 way applications?? I know it is there as somehow, I added it once before but cannot find it now.

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Maybe a basic question, but I cannot find an RD-RD Maestro companion dimmer switch in the design software to add companions to various rooms (to keep track of them). Where can I find this switch in the design software so I can attach them to the dimmer in 3 way and 4 way applications?? I know it is there as somehow, I added it once before but cannot find it now.
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry for a late response, if you hadn't figured it out already select a dimmer again for your remote location and change the "device type" to a remote dimmer or switch all the way at the bottom of the list. You may have to scroll down to find them. 

I'm toying around with OBS software, so here is a quick video showing the above. 
*



*


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Sorry for a late response, if you hadn't figured it out already select a dimmer again for your remote location and change the "device type" to a remote dimmer or switch all the way at the bottom of the list. You may have to scroll down to find them.
> 
> I'm toying around with OBS software, so here is a quick video showing the above


That’s it! Got it. I hadn’t figured that out yet. 

The video talked about voice commands. Like Apple Home, Alexa? I don’t Lutron offers such. 

Thanks!


----------



## dgage

thebland said:


> That’s it! Got it. I hadn’t figured that out yet.
> 
> The video talked about voice commands. Like Apple Home, Alexa? I don’t Lutron offers such.
> 
> Thanks!


Yes Lutron offers voice control. Our most used Alexa feature is light control followed by Alexa Announce to yell at the kids.

You need the Lutron Connect Pro Bridge and then just enable the Lutron Alexa skill. Lutron also has an iOS app so I assume they probably have an Android app as well that controls the lights via the bridge. And get the Pro bridge as there is some difference that makes you want/need the Pro but I don’t remember the details.

EDIT: Apparently the Pro is for the Caseta Smart Bridge. RadioRa2 (and HomeWorks) uses the Connect Bridge (CONNECT-BDG2-1). Here is a link discussing the integration with the Connect Bridge.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Products/Pages/WholeHomeSystems/RadioRA2/Integration.aspx


----------



## pglover19

I have had my RadioRa2 system up and running for over 2 years now. I have about 20 keypads/dimmers connected to the system right now.


I am looking to replace the 4 single pole switches at the front door with RadioRa2 dimmers/switches or a Grafik Eye unit (QSGRJ-4P). 


For the life of me, I don't understand how you would wire 4 single pole switches to the Grafik Eye unit. Can someone please educate me. I am leaning toward getting the Grafik Eye unit to integrate with my RadioRa2 system.


----------



## thebland

*Another RA2 programming question...*

I have RA2 software and a house that has a system that uses two main repeaters (I have inclusive). If I want to move a light switch from one room that is on repeater #1 to a new room that is on repeater #2 , can I do that? 

Or do I need to delete the switch off of repeater #1 , factory reset it and then add it as a new switch onto the room in repeater #2 ?

Thanks.


----------



## Bigus

I'm still a Lutron programming novice but haven't yet found a way to move switches from one repeater to the other in the software. Other than delete/add that is.


----------



## spiwrx

pglover19 said:


> I have had my RadioRa2 system up and running for over 2 years now. I have about 20 keypads/dimmers connected to the system right now.
> 
> 
> I am looking to replace the 4 single pole switches at the front door with RadioRa2 dimmers/switches or a Grafik Eye unit (QSGRJ-4P).
> 
> 
> For the life of me, I don't understand how you would wire 4 single pole switches to the Grafik Eye unit. Can someone please educate me. I am leaning toward getting the Grafik Eye unit to integrate with my RadioRa2 system.


First, the QS is a common feed, meaning it is supplied by just 1 circuit. So you have one "hot" or "live" wire and the Grafik Eye then has 4-6 "zone"(switch) outputs. So 1 in and 4 out in your case. It does have 25watt min load and a max of 800watt per zone / 2000watt combined (or limited by your supply circuit). The QS is fairly LED tolerant, but has no specific or published LED rating. Rule of thumb is 25% of incandescent maximum, and still need 25watt min. If you have a problem it requires and interface, that may be problematic to add unless you have space near by to hide and wire it. Again, I'm just warning you but in most cases it works great.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *Another RA2 programming question...*
> 
> I have RA2 software and a house that has a system that uses two main repeaters (I have inclusive). If I want to move a light switch from one room that is on repeater #1 to a new room that is on repeater #2 , can I do that?
> 
> Or do I need to delete the switch off of repeater #1 , factory reset it and then add it as a new switch onto the room in repeater #2 ?
> 
> Thanks.


From the device tree on the left of the screen you can literally drag and drop a entire room from one repeater to the other, likewise you can drag and drop a single device from the main view to and other room on the same or other repeater.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> From the device tree on the left of the screen you can literally drag and drop a entire room from one repeater to the other, likewise you can drag and drop a single device from the main view to and other room on the same or other repeater.


Well that’s easy enough. I’m up to 85 devices on one repeater and 25 on the other. Still somethings to add and was going to equal things out a bit. Much appreciated!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Well that’s easy enough. I’m up to 85 devices on one repeater and 25 on the other. Still somethings to add and was going to equal things out a bit. Much appreciated!


No problem. It was slow today, so here is a quick video showing that:

You could also delete and add it back it, if you save the serial number and activate by serial number you shouldn't have to reset it. But you need to either physically read the serial number on the top/bottom of the device or look in the activation window and record it _*before *_you delete it.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Well that’s easy enough. I’m up to 85 devices on one repeater and 25 on the other. Still somethings to add and was going to equal things out a bit. Much appreciated!


Just a reminder on a 2 repeater system. Try and make the split so it's obvious delineation of the home. Between floors as an example but maybe North / South or East / West. 
Or pull less essential rooms onto the secondary repeater. At the same time keep in mind you are really bridging two systems and you want to assign and take advantage of the range of each. Almost want to treat them as separate systems in terms of devices, range and mounting. And if you are adding auxiliary repeaters to them as well, make sure they correspond to the main repeater in the programming and in mounting.


Often I'm forced into a second repeater because of shades, and if it makes sense (range) to do so, I just put all the shades on 1 repeater. Around here most of the homes have only one or two adjacent exposures so most of the shades are usually on one side of the home which helps. 

With auxiliary repeaters keep in mind you are extending the range of the repeater it is added to and devices associated with it.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> No problem. It was slow today, so here is a quick video showing that:
> 
> You could also delete and add it back it, if you save the serial number and activate by serial number you shouldn't have to reset it. But you need to either physically read the serial number on the top/bottom of the device or look in the activation window and record it _*before *_you delete it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38f7S91PNIM&feature=youtu.be


I’m on the road and will look at the video in a bit. . Thanks so much for doing that! 

But if I’m understanding, do I need serial numbers if I can drag and drop rooms or devices from one repeater to another? Or only if deleting and re-adding? Can I truly drag and drop to second repeater?

And yes, I have shades all on one (nearby) and have divided up so all devices get good signal from their respective repeater. 

Again, thanks so much.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> ...But if I’m understanding, do I need serial numbers if I can drag and drop rooms or devices from one repeater to another? Or only if deleting and re-adding? Can I truly drag and drop to second repeater?.



You only need the serial #'s if you are deleting and adding them back in. Or you have to default them and go through regular activation.

For drag & drop it will carry all the information over, you don't need to do anything unless you also change the device or keypad type.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> You only need the serial #'s if you are deleting and adding them back in. Or you have to default them and go through regular activation.
> 
> For drag & drop it will carry all the information over, you don't need to do anything unless you also change the device or keypad type.


This is all excellent information. Thanks so much! I'm going to further subdivide areas to make them closest to their respective main repeaters and more logically divided. Glad it can be done via a simple drag and drop.

You're a great resource!
Thanks!
Jeff


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> You only need the serial #'s if you are deleting and adding them back in. Or you have to default them and go through regular activation.
> 
> For drag & drop it will carry all the information over, you don't need to do anything unless you also change the device or keypad type.


Saw the video. Perfectly clear! Thanks so much!


----------



## Bigus

Hmm.. drag and drop! Thought I tried that but probably goofed it up somehow and assumed that just wasn't possible.


----------



## thebland

Bigus said:


> Hmm.. drag and drop! Thought I tried that but probably goofed it up somehow and assumed that just wasn't possible.





spiwrx said:


> You only need the serial #'s if you are deleting and adding them back in. Or you have to default them and go through regular activation.
> 
> For drag & drop it will carry all the information over, you don't need to do anything unless you also change the device or keypad type.


Yes,,, May not be possible...

I tried dragging a room (and its keypad, dimmer contents) to the second Main repeater in my set up and got an error thatI must reset and reprogram... Is there really a way to truly Drag and Drop without resetting switches to default??


----------



## Foos-Man

Looking for recommendations. I'm want to install under/above cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I need to get to 3 walls, so am thinking instead of ripping out a lot of drywall to run romex to all 3 walls, I can use my Radio Ra2 system and install switches in 3 locations. This would require me just tapping into 120V on each wall, which is do-able. Suggestions on what to use? I'd prefer LED lighting. Do I just throw up some 6CL switches to 120V LED lights? On one wall I will have 1 cabinet of lights connected, so I'm concerned about minimum load on a dimmer/switch. Any recommendations on lights to use?


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Yes,,, May not be possible...
> 
> I tried dragging a room (and its keypad, dimmer contents) to the second Main repeater in my set up and got an error thatI must reset and reprogram... Is there really a way to truly Drag and Drop without resetting switches to default??


If the system has already been activated then you have to either do as it says, or a quicker way would be to jot down the serial #'s from the activation screen before changes and you can activate by serial number after the changes. From the Activation tab there should be a table at the bottom of the main screen showing all devices and serial numbers of those that were activated. 

I encourage you to save a backup of your job file so you can revert to it, if your change don't go smoothly.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Looking for recommendations. I'm want to install under/above cabinet lighting in the kitchen. I need to get to 3 walls, so am thinking instead of ripping out a lot of drywall to run romex to all 3 walls, I can use my Radio Ra2 system and install switches in 3 locations. This would require me just tapping into 120V on each wall, which is do-able. Suggestions on what to use? I'd prefer LED lighting. Do I just throw up some 6CL switches to 120V LED lights? On one wall I will have 1 cabinet of lights connected, so I'm concerned about minimum load on a dimmer/switch. Any recommendations on lights to use?


Chances are you will at least be considering some low voltage options which typically have a remote driver/transformer. These work great on the plug-in dimmers which have a really low minimum wattage. 
If you want a wall dimmer consider the newer 6ND dimmer. Has a lower minimum. But if you get to just a few watts you may need the PRO dimmer. 

If this is all you are doing you may also want to consider the Radio Ra Select or Caseta. Full Radio Ra 2 is meant for whole home, the other two are meant for smaller projects. Unless you need a reason to jump in I might consider the Select at least gives you an upgrade path to full Radio Ra 2. If you are expanding on a system or planning for the future then Radio Ra 2.


----------



## thebland

thebland said:


> Yes,,, May not be possible...
> 
> I tried dragging a room (and its keypad, dimmer contents) to the second Main repeater in my set up and got an error thatI must reset and reprogram... Is there really a way to truly Drag and Drop without resetting switches to default??


OK. Good info. I'll give it a go with a singe device and see the process for such.

Thanks!


----------



## Foos-Man

spiwrx said:


> Chances are you will at least be considering some low voltage options which typically have a remote driver/transformer. These work great on the plug-in dimmers which have a really low minimum wattage.
> If you want a wall dimmer consider the newer 6ND dimmer. Has a lower minimum. But if you get to just a few watts you may need the PRO dimmer.
> 
> If this is all you are doing you may also want to consider the Radio Ra Select or Caseta. Full Radio Ra 2 is meant for whole home, the other two are meant for smaller projects. Unless you need a reason to jump in I might consider the Select at least gives you an upgrade path to full Radio Ra 2. If you are expanding on a system or planning for the future then Radio Ra 2.


Thanks Paul. I have a Ra2 system already in the house (it is awesome), but haven’t kept up with the newer switches. I last added a few 6CL switches that I got from you/Hanks Electrical supply. I’m contemplating using some Halo HU30 lights which are 11W each and I’ll have at least 2 per switch, so 22W. I should be able to dim these if needed from a 6ND. I’m thinking 3 6ND switches (One for each set of cabinets/walls to avoid running romex across walls). I would hide the 6ND switches in the wall above the cabinets then use something like a Pico remote for control. I already have a occupancy sensor in the kitchen which I might also tie the lights into.


----------



## spiwrx

Foos-Man said:


> Thanks Paul. I have a Ra2 system already in the house (it is awesome), but haven’t kept up with the newer switches. I last added a few 6CL switches that I got from you/Hanks Electrical supply. I’m contemplating using some Halo HU30 lights which are 11W each and I’ll have at least 2 per switch, so 22W. I should be able to dim these if needed from a 6ND. I’m thinking 3 6ND switches (One for each set of cabinets/walls to avoid running romex across walls). I would hide the 6ND switches in the wall above the cabinets then use something like a Pico remote for control. I already have a occupancy sensor in the kitchen which I might also tie the lights into.



Looks like for best results you need an ELV dimmer (Maestro is similar/same to RR2) for this light (check here) which today translates to newer RRD-PRO dimmer if you software is up to date, otherwise use the RRD-6NA. Either one you'll want to go into advanced setting and adjust to reverse phase. 

Either will work fine with the sensor and/or pico.

The PRO & 6NA with connected neutral will give you about 5-10watt minimum. The 6ND is not specifically published but should have a similar minimum.


----------



## spiwrx

Lutron just announced the RRD-6CL and RRD-6NA will be discontinued in March and replaced by RRD-6ND and RRD-PRO. 
This is good because t reduces the number of SKU's and reduces complications of having so many different dimmers. Additionally the PRO is cheaper than the 6NA it replaces. 
The 6ND thus far has been great bu requires a neutral. For most this hasn't been an issue. However, if you have a non-Neutral dimmer location now you will have to use the PRO, which cost more than the 6CL.


----------



## schalliol

Interesting. I haven’t installed many PROs yet, but the 6CL seemed to work better than the 6ND to me. What has your experience been?


----------



## frogbot

*RRD-HN6BRL-WH discontinued?*

Hi all, thanks for all the info.
I just ordered an RRD-HN6BRL-WH (RadioRA 2 seeTouch C•L Hybrid Keypad 6-button, raise/lower) since it's supposed to run LED lighting, but the distributor told me that it has been discontinued without replacement. Is this a mistake on the distributor's part? What else can I use if I only have LED lighting? Will the RRD-H6BRL be able to do the same thing? Thx.


----------



## schalliol

*Best Practices For Outdoor Switching/Pool Area?*

I’m doing a pool/patio area and will be having a few items I’d like to control. There a few challenges with this:

There’s going to be a 120V sub-panel box outside most equipment will be connected to, so unless I want make some indoor runs, I have to deal with switching outside
The outdoor sub-panel area is probably too far from the house to get good RR2 coverage from existing main repeater and aux repeater
As far as I know RR2 devices aren't approved for outside use, and it's unclear to me if it's okay to put softswitches, appliance devices or others in an outdoor electrical box. It does freeze and get hot in central Indiana
It would be nice to control the automatic pool cover with RR2 but have concluded that it's a safety issue to have a control system that could malfunction
It would also be nice to have physical pool light controls outside, but it's unclear how that could work

The three in-the-pool lights will be LED and at the moment I think they will be just switched near the sub-panel, there will be probably 1-2 additional channels of Coastal Source LED landscape lighting that will be fed by 120V switching. Mostly we'll be having the pool lighting area automated by timer or from the home. We'll have some Ethernet outside, so we could connect in the new Aux repeater, which I don't think requires a hard-line connection.

I'd be very interested in any best practices people have for any of this, but I have some specific questions:

Does anyone use RR2 repeaters outside in any capacity, and if so, how do you do it?
Does anyone use any outdoor RR2 switching modules outside in climates where there are very cold and hot conditions, and if so, how do you place them?
Does anyone have indoor RR2 modules that use low voltage runs as a relay non-RR2 120V outdoor switches, and if so which ones and how?
Does anyone use RR2 keypads outdoors in smilar conditions (even in a box) and if so, how do you do it?
Does anyone use Picos outdoors in a box, and if so, how have they fared?
Is anyone controlling any pool equipment through RR2, and how have you found it?
Has anyone integrated pool temperature and RR2?

Thanks!


----------



## FlyingDiver

I have RR2 dimmers outside on a covered Lanai. But this is SW Florida, and the temps are never below 40. Can't help you with what would work in Indiana.

If you want to control pool lights, pumps, heaters using Lutron keypads, you're going to need a Home Automation system as an intermediary. I use Indigo, and with that I can control anything my pool control system manages. Also requires the Pentair automation interface.


----------



## Perfectionist2

My system is old and somewhat outdated, since I've had it running since 1993. It's a combination of AMX and the old original LiteTouch system. I control gates, lights, timers, drapers, AV equipment, pumps, music, fans, etc., using the LiteTouch clocks and timers connected to an AMX system and can manually override anything with an AMX remote control via an interface between the two systems. The key is to connect your outside components by wiring to a box inside the house (garage, closet, etc.). This can be accomplished by running electrical conduits. This puts the control boxes (modules that use low voltage to switch the high voltage lines and/off/dim) and switching modules in a controlled environment that can be operated remotely via wi-fi or RF or ZigBee or whatever using a wall switch inside or outside the house or if you prefer a remote. I have two "electrical closets" that house the control modules and then use wall switches or remotes to turn things on/off with or without timers.

I will be upgrading soon but I'm waiting until I'm certain the new wiring scheme is rock solid and the next purchase is going to last another 25 years.


----------



## smoothtlk

Perfectionist2 said:


> My system is old and somewhat outdated, since I've had it running since 1993. It's a combination of AMX and the old original LiteTouch system. I control gates, lights, timers, drapers, AV equipment, pumps, music, fans, etc., using the LiteTouch clocks and timers connected to an AMX system and can manually override anything with an AMX remote control via an interface between the two systems. The key is to connect your outside components by wiring to a box inside the house (garage, closet, etc.). This can be accomplished by running electrical conduits. This puts the control boxes (modules that use low voltage to switch the high voltage lines and/off/dim) and switching modules in a controlled environment that can be operated remotely via wi-fi or RF or ZigBee or whatever using a wall switch inside or outside the house or if you prefer a remote. I have two "electrical closets" that house the control modules and then use wall switches or remotes to turn things on/off with or without timers.
> 
> I will be upgrading soon but I'm waiting until I'm certain the new wiring scheme is rock solid and the next purchase is going to last another 25 years.


Does the Litetouch system still work? Are you considering upgrading for fear something will die and not be available?
Our myServer automation controller integrates with the Litetouch. That will create new life.


----------



## schalliol

Thank you, Flying Diver! Does anyone else have ideas, especially for having switching occurring outdoors?



schalliol said:


> I’m doing a pool/patio area and will be having a few items I’d like to control. There a few challenges with this:
> 
> There’s going to be a 120V sub-panel box outside most equipment will be connected to, so unless I want make some indoor runs, I have to deal with switching outside
> The outdoor sub-panel area is probably too far from the house to get good RR2 coverage from existing main repeater and aux repeater
> As far as I know RR2 devices aren't approved for outside use, and it's unclear to me if it's okay to put softswitches, appliance devices or others in an outdoor electrical box. It does freeze and get hot in central Indiana
> It would be nice to control the automatic pool cover with RR2 but have concluded that it's a safety issue to have a control system that could malfunction
> It would also be nice to have physical pool light controls outside, but it's unclear how that could work
> 
> The three in-the-pool lights will be LED and at the moment I think they will be just switched near the sub-panel, there will be probably 1-2 additional channels of Coastal Source LED landscape lighting that will be fed by 120V switching. Mostly we'll be having the pool lighting area automated by timer or from the home. We'll have some Ethernet outside, so we could connect in the new Aux repeater, which I don't think requires a hard-line connection.
> 
> I'd be very interested in any best practices people have for any of this, but I have some specific questions:
> 
> Does anyone use RR2 repeaters outside in any capacity, and if so, how do you do it?
> Does anyone use any outdoor RR2 switching modules outside in climates where there are very cold and hot conditions, and if so, how do you place them?
> Does anyone have indoor RR2 modules that use low voltage runs as a relay non-RR2 120V outdoor switches, and if so which ones and how?
> Does anyone use RR2 keypads outdoors in smilar conditions (even in a box) and if so, how do you do it?
> Does anyone use Picos outdoors in a box, and if so, how have they fared?
> Is anyone controlling any pool equipment through RR2, and how have you found it?
> Has anyone integrated pool temperature and RR2?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## smoothtlk

When we do pool lighting, we use DMX control to switch the 12 /24 volt RGB lights. That provide instant color changes and certainly low voltage for safety. With the speed and precision of DMX. The DMX controllers are either located indoors or in plastic weather tight boxes. The DMX controllers are typically IP controlled so ethernet to the controller box to the computer network. Our myServer controller also on the ethernet can then control the colors.

We tie the colors to the music system via software. The pool lighting can then dance with the music 

The challenge with the above is we haven't found standard pool RGB LED lights that are fast enough. So we build our own.

Custom stuff but it makes a difference in the experience.


----------



## schalliol

smoothtlk said:


> The challenge with the above is we haven't found standard pool RGB LED lights that are fast enough. So we build our own.
> 
> Custom stuff but it makes a difference in the experience.


That sounds fantastic!

I think for this project since there's variable speed pumps and electric heat on thermostat we can just deal with a couple channels of light switching. For that, I'm trying to decide whether to simply loop from an outdoor sub panel to an interior wall for RR2 8ANSes or SoftSwitches and back to switch the receptacles or whether to run a relay.

I'm not hearing anyone is putting RRD items outdoors even in an enclosure. Is anyone?


----------



## rapamatic

schalliol said:


> That sounds fantastic!
> 
> 
> 
> I think for this project since there's variable speed pumps and electric heat on thermostat we can just deal with a couple channels of light switching. For that, I'm trying to decide whether to simply loop from an outdoor sub panel to an interior wall for RR2 8ANSes or SoftSwitches and back to switch the receptacles or whether to run a relay.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not hearing anyone is putting RRD items outdoors even in an enclosure. Is anyone?




Not exactly the same scenario, but my VCRX has held up well in a detached garage through Chicago winters and summers - it may be a little warmer than ambient, but has survived and worked fine through polar vortexes... 

Maybe something with relays and VCRX would work for some of your lighting and pool loads? Also, the VCRX has dry contact inputs - you could wire those to some sort of waterproof switch to have some lighting controls outside...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## smoothtlk

schalliol said:


> That sounds fantastic!
> 
> I think for this project since there's variable speed pumps and electric heat on thermostat we can just deal with a couple channels of light switching. For that, I'm trying to decide whether to simply loop from an outdoor sub panel to an interior wall for RR2 8ANSes or SoftSwitches and back to switch the receptacles or whether to run a relay.
> 
> I'm not hearing anyone is putting RRD items outdoors even in an enclosure. Is anyone?


re: variable speed pumps - I assume these are part of the pool control system? ie: Jandy or Pentair? If so, the automation controller tells the pool controller what mode to go in and the pool controller deals with the pump motor as it always does. Same thing with pool / spa heat.
You likely would NOT be wiring a RadioRa switch to a pool pump motor.

Lots of installers put RadioRa switches in weather tight boxes outdoors. No biggie. I would place those switches under overhangs so direct water doesn't hit them.

RadioRa for landscape lighting: Sure...easy...sometimes a Pro landscape lighting controller can look like a Ra switch as well. You can also do landscape lighting with simple IP relays managed by the control system.

As always: Pick the control system...then the rest of parts. Rest includes RadioRa and Jandy. RadioRa is not a control system.
Design this as a System.


----------



## Perfectionist2

> Does the Litetouch system still work? Are you considering upgrading for fear something will die and not be available?
> Our myServer automation controller integrates with the Litetouch. That will create new life.


Yes, the LiteTouch still works and remains rock solid, as does the AMX. However, as you mentioned I have a fear of something dying plus I would like to add some home theater control enhancements and other modalities (security cameras and HVAC interfaces) which would require an upgrade to the AMX. I'm reluctant to spend money on two systems that are old and have been replaced with newer technology. Also upset with what Savant did to LiteTouch.

So I have 28 AMX keypad (1-3 gang) with traditional AMX wiring which probably need to be rewired (not that difficult because it's a single story house with easy attic access but it's still a lot of labor.

I've been thinking about doing this after Savant killed the old LiteTouch product even though it was guaranteed for life. Haha!


----------



## spiwrx

frogbot said:


> Hi all, thanks for all the info.
> I just ordered an RRD-HN6BRL-WH (RadioRA 2 seeTouch C•L Hybrid Keypad 6-button, raise/lower) since it's supposed to run LED lighting, but the distributor told me that it has been discontinued without replacement. Is this a mistake on the distributor's part? What else can I use if I only have LED lighting? Will the RRD-H6BRL be able to do the same thing? Thx.



Sorry, late to reply. I have them in stock and so does Lutron, How many do you need? Even the RRD-H6BRL-WH (non neutral) version is still available. The H is very similar but the HN handles lower wattage and LED better.


----------



## spiwrx

Come on, you know I have something to say. Maybe tip me off next time my head is buried and I haven't seen your post... 






> Does anyone use RR2 repeaters outside in any capacity, and if so, how do you do it?


If in range use the newer L-REPPRO in a small plastic weatherproof enclosure. If too far away you need to wire by MUX to regular Aux. repeater or consider 2nd main repeater over Ethernet. 






> Does anyone use any outdoor RR2 switching modules outside in climates where there are very cold and hot conditions, and if so, how do you place them?


I have sold them before for this, but haven't heard of any issues. Modules say "Operate between 32 °F to 131 °F (0 °C to 55 °C)." Dimmer does say the same temp, but also indoor use only. We use these a lot in weatherproof covers w/o problem but if you have extreme temperatures proceed w/ caution. 






> Does anyone have indoor RR2 modules that use low voltage runs as a relay non-RR2 120V outdoor switches, and if so which ones and how?



I would do this using a VCRX, 4 outputs to use, can run any sort of relay likely 24vac are most common. 





> Does anyone use RR2 keypads outdoors in similar conditions (even in a box) and if so, how do you do it?


Same, try to maintain plastic weatherproof boxes/covers to preserve as much range as possible. . 





> Does anyone use Picos outdoors in a box, and if so, how have they fared?


Same as above, could potentially mount in weatherproof cover only seal w/ silicone or preferred caulking. There is a company out there that weatherproof electronics. Some one in this thread brought them to my attention privately, but I think they basically coat the electronics with something to weatherproof them. 





> Is anyone controlling any pool equipment through RR2, and how have you found it?


Yes, I have a pentair variable-speed w/interface module. I control it, my heater (on/off), air/bubbles, and valves. I have a Pool with a spa that spills over into it. The only thing I want to add is to control the heat, but I'm still working on that. 





> Has anyone integrated pool temperature and RR2?


 Not yet, but on my chopping block. Thinking of using wired temp sensor to one of their thermostats and treat it like any other heater. 


I also used generic import RGB pool light. They switch between color & mode by turning them on/off. This is sort of a pain, but I had RF one's and the range was and issue. So sync'ing both lights never quite worked right. I would rather have a typical RGB controller over 4wire back to a power supply. But as it is now, I just turn on and off with a PICO to get the color/mode I like and the lights were not $400 each. 

If you are building a control panel for colder temperatures, they do make panel heaters to keep your equipment in operating temperature.


----------



## schalliol

spiwrx said:


> Come on, you know I have something to say.


 Ha! I figured you would!
Your thoughts here are really helpful. I'm thinking that if it's reasonable enough that the simplest thing to do is loop some of the power I want to switch back into the house and just use standard RR2 controls, as the cost of the wire probably outweighs the other parts that would otherwise be needed and complexity.

I like the heated/ventilated enclosure idea. Those are pretty great. It's pretty interesting that a company will treat a piece of equipment for weather proofing, but I imagine that has to be the last resort.

I would love to hear if you're able to monitor your pool temp remotely through RR2 or something else! Thanks again!


----------



## spiwrx

If you got a system recently from me, or elsewhere please read below from Lutron email blast. 

"*This notification only applies to RadioRA 2 main repeaters received after January 1, 2020.*

Lutron has identified an issue with recently built RadioRA 2 main repeaters that does not allow firmware updates of the product using the RadioRA 2 PC software tool version 12.5 and newer. There is also a possibility that the affected main repeaters may not retain their static IP addresses when losing power, potentially disrupting integration with other systems.

*The following model numbers are affected:

RR-MAIN-REP-WH (Date Code between 5C2 – 0D8 [Dec 27, 2019 – Feb. 23, 2020])"

*
*For information on how to identify the date code of the product, click here.

NOTES:
a. Main Repeaters built prior to these date codes are not affected
b. RA2 Select main repeaters are not affected by this issue
c. Lutron strongly recommends updating any affected RadioRA2 main repeater already installed
d. Newly built main repeaters with date code starting 0D9 are not affected

For any affected RadioRA 2 main repeaters that are already installed, a special firmware update process exists to correct the problem. The upgrade process can be found here. Please pass this along to any of your customers that may have purchased a Main Repeater during the affected dates.
*


----------



## spiwrx

Also, they snuck in version 12.5 software, pulled it and now 12.6 is available. If anyone is interested I have 12.5.4. 

Oddly there are no release notes for 12.5 or 12.6 specifically, but assume it has more to do with previous post.


----------



## thebland

Does or will Radio RA2 work with IFTTT? I know Ra2 Select and Caseta do. Thanks!!


----------



## smoothtlk

Ra2 is marketed to integrate with higher end automation controllers. When one has that, there is limited need for IFTTT.
Caseta is a more entry market product that IFTTT caters to.

When you have a 'real' automation controller, you can manage Ra2, RaSelect, Caseta and most all of the functions that a cloud IFTTT services provide.

I am not aware that Ra2 natively supports IFTTT today.
If the automation controller is in the mix, then its likely that IFTTT services can be used with Ra2 devices (if needed).


----------



## thebland

I have Totalconnect for security and it would be a nice feature... The app is slick, easy to navigate but no way am I going back to ZWave! 

Too bad as the Lutron Connect Cloud device is pretty inclusive and seemingly make IFTTT possible....


----------



## schalliol

I have strange issue. For some reason landscape lights and House Uplights turn off in the evening around 8:45 PM. I think it is changing because of sunset offset. I’ve never set this event, and I look through all time clock events and can’t see anything like this at the time. There is a morning off event that’s clearly for an offset to sunrise, which I adjusted a minute and re-transmitted and don’t see a change in this evening event.

Is there anyway to see (telnet?) the current system time and a log of what events are firing? Thanks!


----------



## uscpsycho

spiwrx said:


> Also, they snuck in version 12.5 software, pulled it and now 12.6 is available. If anyone is interested I have 12.5.4.
> 
> Oddly there are no release notes for 12.5 or 12.6 specifically, but assume it has more to do with previous post.


Can you please help me out? I did the online training and at the end you can download v11.6. But I can't extract from my main repeater with this software because the repeater was programmed with v12. For some reason there aren't any links in mylutron to download the latest version so I'm stuck. I am also going to email you at the address in your signature, trying to get this asap. If you see this first, please reply to my email if possible, rather than messaging me here.

Thanks!


----------



## thebland

Is 12.6 the current, latest software??


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Is 12.6 the current, latest software??


Yes, however they have been turning over versions quickly lately. I would hold off and see if it becomes stable unless you have an old (11 or less) version, need to upgrade for other reason or had 12.4 or 12.5 which they skipped through quickly. Also, if you have one of the affected repeaters mentioned below. 

from 12.6 release notes:

New in 12.6
1.Addressed a single bug which would result in 2 potential symptoms
a). Unable to perform firmware upgrades

 b). If the main repeater is assigned a static IP address, upon power cycle it will revert to DHCP


The following model numbers are affected:
1.RR-MAIN-REP-WH (Date Code between 5C2-0D8)

2.RR-CONNECT-PKG (Check the date code for the repeater inside of the kit for the range 5C2-0D8)(NOTE: RA2 Select Main Repeaters are not affected by this issue)


----------



## spiwrx

uscpsycho said:


> Can you please help me out? I did the online training and at the end you can download v11.6. But I can't extract from my main repeater with this software because the repeater was programmed with v12. For some reason there aren't any links in mylutron to download the latest version so I'm stuck. I am also going to email you at the address in your signature, trying to get this asap. If you see this first, please reply to my email if possible, rather than messaging me here.
> 
> Thanks!


Just a reminder, if you did the online training and received the software legitimately you should also be entitled to any of the updated versions. I would call Lutron if you are having trouble and they will sort you out. Call rather than email or support forum or you will be waiting days for a response, and more days for a resolution. Pick up the phone, it's toll free and a real person. Call late at night, they are typically bored then. 

Because anyone can get this software through the free online training, please do so. The training helps me and others that support this by eliminating a lot of the common questions and problems people encounter.


----------



## uscpsycho

spiwrx said:


> Just a reminder, if you did the online training and received the software legitimately you should also be entitled to any of the updated versions. I would call Lutron if you are having trouble and they will sort you out. Call rather than email or support forum or you will be waiting days for a response, and more days for a resolution. Pick up the phone, it's toll free and a real person. Call late at night, they are typically bored then.
> 
> Because anyone can get this software through the free online training, please do so. The training helps me and others that support this by eliminating a lot of the common questions and problems people encounter.


I called this morning and they got me all set up.

I also called last night and the guy I talked to was really clueless, he had no idea what was up and told me to call today when a specialist would be available. I've called Lutron at night several times and never had a good outcome. The night shift folks are not good for any advanced issue, which is the only kind of issue I've ever had in the dead of night.


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> I have strange issue. For some reason landscape lights and House Uplights turn off in the evening around 8:45 PM. I think it is changing because of sunset offset. I’ve never set this event, and I look through all time clock events and can’t see anything like this at the time. There is a morning off event that’s clearly for an offset to sunrise, which I adjusted a minute and re-transmitted and don’t see a change in this evening event.
> 
> Is there anyway to see (telnet?) the current system time and a log of what events are firing? Thanks!


I know you can pull a support file from "Help>Support>Create Support File" but it generates a .rsf file not sure is anything viewable to us, or if it has that information?
Either way you could email it to Lutron support for some insight. 

also from the integration guide, it gives some insight on telnet, but it's not something I know enough about to help you.


----------



## thebland

*Custom Buttons order for Ra2 Keypads*

After 1 year, I think we have our button down and want the custom ones made. I have about 15 keypads.

However, I lost one of my yellow redemption cards for one of my keypads. I have for all others. Do I have to pay for the custom engraved buttons or how do I order for that keypad (cost)?

Also, when they come, are they loose buttons or come in a framework and just pop in. Easy job? PITA?

Any tips? [email protected][email protected]

Thanks!


----------



## rapamatic

I don't know the best course of action with engraving certificate (I've seen them on eBay sometimes, but who knows if those are legit).

The buttons come in a frame, they just pop out from the keypad - very similar to changing the color on a dimmer or switch if you've ever done that. Not a big deal at all. Only pain is you have to take off the switchplate, which can be a pain with a big multi-gang installation. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## thebland

rapamatic said:


> I don't know the best course of action with engraving certificate (I've seen them on eBay sometimes, but who knows if those are legit).
> 
> The buttons come in a frame, they just pop out from the keypad - very similar to changing the color on a dimmer or switch if you've ever done that. Not a big deal at all. Only pain is you have to take off the switchplate, which can be a pain with a big multi-gang installation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks!

One last thing. If I have a 6 button key pad, can I order the new button kit as a 4 button or 3 button keypad with engraving certificate when ordering from Lutron?

Appreciate it.


----------



## FlyingDiver

thebland said:


> One last thing. If I have a 6 button key pad, can I order the new button kit as a 4 button or 3 button keypad with engraving certificate when ordering from Lutron?


Yes. You can order any size button kit that fits that switch. They ALL come as 6 button.


----------



## thebland

FlyingDiver said:


> Yes. You can order any size button kit that fits that switch. They ALL come as 6 button.


So swap a 6 button H6BRL for a HN3S?









For a 










Thanks!


----------



## FlyingDiver

You would have needed to start with an HN6BRL to get a HN3S button kit on it. But you could get an H3S kit for a H63BRL.


----------



## socalsharky

thebland said:


> So swap a 6 button H6BRL for a HN3S?
> Thanks!



Yes you can do that. They are all 6 button underneath the key pad.


----------



## thebland

Software Question 

In programming, how do I add a NON-LUTRON switch to a triple gang? I want to accurately display the actual triple gang of switches even though one isn't Lutron. Can't see how to add this...


Thanks!


----------



## FlyingDiver

thebland said:


> Software Question
> 
> In programming, how do I add a NON-LUTRON switch to a triple gang? I want to accurately display the actual triple gang of switches even though one isn't Lutron. Can't see how to add this...


In the Add New Device dialog, scroll the left side down until you get to the "Accessories" section. Pick something from there.

That's in the Inclusive software. I'm assuming Essentials is the same but I don't have Essentials installed anywhere at the moment.


----------



## thebland

Programming question:

When I make a lighting scene, I have some lights intentionally turned off and the desired lights turning on. 

What bothers me is if I use the up / down light level buttons to raise the desired lights from a keypad, the lights that were programmed to be off start to come on if when hitting the increase level button on the keypad.

Is there away to make a scene and with the lights that are desired to be off stay off regardless of hitting the level up or down buttons on the keypad??

Thanks!


----------



## schalliol

thebland said:


> Programming question:Is there away to make a scene and with the lights that are desired to be off stay off regardless of hitting the level up or down buttons on the keypad??!


You should be able to independently set what happens on increase and decrease press from the preset buttons. By default, it will associate the controls used in the presets, but if you click on the level buttons, you should be able to specify what lights are controlled.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> ...Is there away to make a scene and with the lights that are desired to be off stay off regardless of hitting the level up or down buttons on the keypad??



As schalliol mentioned, you can program the Raise/Lower button to something specific, but then it will only do those devices, if you only need the raise & lower button for this, it may make sense to do this, but you are loosing other functionality.
To do this:
In the design tab with your Keypad selected, click on the raise or lower button and it will turn blue, on the bottom of the screen change "Selected Button type" to "Raise (or Lower) Programmed Devices" then select the devices you want to raise/lower. 

For a Pico, it's very similar, but there is a checkbox, uncheck "Use Group Programming..."

What I'm not sure about is if programmed this way, will the raise and lower always raise and lowers those devices only, or will it still be relative to the active scene. Normally this works on last button pressed, but the way it's phrased I think this change will make the Raise & Lower always and only operate the assigned devices, regardless of any scene activity. They aslos make some split keypas with 2 sets of Raise/Lower, so this is something to consider as well. 

If you are using HomeSeer, Indigo or other 3rd party software for conditionals, this may be most appropriately handled there. In this case I would leave the light you want to stay off, off of the scene button and use the scene button as a trigger for the conditional.


----------



## markrubin

couple of questions:
I had a RRD-W6BRL keypad start smoking/ get very hot: I shut off the circuit breaker and will have to wait for an electrician to check it: is this a typical failure mode? 
also I bought a new replacement keypad: can I just change the serial number of the keypad in RR2 program to activate it?
tia


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> As schalliol mentioned, you can program the Raise/Lower button to something specific, but then it will only do those devices, if you only need the raise & lower button for this, it may make sense to do this, but you are loosing other functionality.
> To do this:
> In the design tab with your Keypad selected, click on the raise or lower button and it will turn blue, on the bottom of the screen change "Selected Button type" to "Raise (or Lower) Programmed Devices" then select the devices you want to raise/lower.
> 
> For a Pico, it's very similar, but there is a checkbox, uncheck "Use Group Programming..."
> 
> What I'm not sure about is if programmed this way, will the raise and lower always raise and lowers those devices only, or will it still be relative to the active scene. Normally this works on last button pressed, but the way it's phrased I think this change will make the Raise & Lower always and only operate the assigned devices, regardless of any scene activity. They aslos make some split keypas with 2 sets of Raise/Lower, so this is something to consider as well.


This is good information. Exactly what I wanted. Yes when I want to exclude some lights from raising on the PICO. I’ll look at that ‘uncheck group programming’. Thanks!


----------



## duckymomo

I know Lutron is all about silos for their product lines, but it's disappointing that they still haven't made the Caseta lamp dimmer available for RadioRA2. It looks much better and cleaner than having wires everywhere. 

I'm at Caseta's 75 device limit and I also have a bunch more Maestro Wireless "dumb" switches that are manually controlled by Picos. 

One way around the lack of a proper lamp module would be wiring outlets for lamps to a wall switch, then I can just use a regular dimmer. Even less wires/mess that way.


----------



## socalsharky

duckymomo said:


> I know Lutron is all about silos for their product lines, but it's disappointing that they still haven't made the Caseta lamp dimmer available for RadioRA2. It looks much better and cleaner than having wires everywhere.
> 
> I'm at Caseta's 75 device limit and I also have a bunch more Maestro Wireless "dumb" switches that are manually controlled by Picos.
> 
> One way around the lack of a proper lamp module would be wiring outlets for lamps to a wall switch, then I can just use a regular dimmer. Even less wires/mess that way.



I agree. The Caseta lamp dimmer should be available for RA2. Why not? 

However, wiring an outlet to a dimmer is not best practice. If the outlet is dimmed and someone plugs in something other than a light you could damage the switch and the load.


----------



## duckymomo

socalsharky said:


> I agree. The Caseta lamp dimmer should be available for RA2. Why not?
> 
> However, wiring an outlet to a dimmer is not best practice. If the outlet is dimmed and someone plugs in something other than a light you could damage the switch and the load.


Yea, I know it's not ideal. But I use floor lamps much more than overhead lights. And no one is plugging/unplugging anything in or around them in my house. I also would only connect it to one receptacle, the other one would be wired normally. If I ever sell, I'd just remove the switch and it would be a normal outlet.


----------



## schalliol

duckymomo said:


> Yea, I know it's not ideal. But I use floor lamps much more than overhead lights. And no one is plugging/unplugging anything in or around them in my house. I also would only connect it to one receptacle, the other one would be wired normally. If I ever sell, I'd just remove the switch and it would be a normal outlet.





socalsharky said:


> However, wiring an outlet to a dimmer is not best practice. If the outlet is dimmed and someone plugs in something other than a light you could damage the switch and the load.


Whoa there, definitely don't use normally dimmed receptacles. For the past 12 or so years Lutron has been quietly making a Receptacle for Dimming Use in half and full varieties. You do have to rewire the lamp with the other plug, but it's easy enough. Use these and you'll be code compliant . Lutron even has a RR2 application note on it with part numbers.


----------



## duckymomo

schalliol said:


> Whoa there, definitely don't use normally dimmed receptacles. For the past 12 or so years Lutron has been quietly making a Receptacle for Dimming Use in half and full varieties. You do have to rewire the lamp with the other plug, but it's easy enough. Use these and you'll be code compliant . Lutron even has a RR2 application note on it with part numbers.


Thanks, good to know. They just need to make a wireless outlet and be done with it. I almost never dim my lamps, I just use a properly sized bulb that gives the amount of light I need.


----------



## schalliol

I agree a wireless receptacle that fits fully in the J-Box is way overdue. They could have full and half (possibly even with USB). They could have one with receptacle for dimming too.

I find lamps are a great way to have soft lighting for the evening. In my own home we have 3 vertical lamps with 3 LED E12 bulbs spread near corners and as the evening goes on they fade slowly.


----------



## jautor

duckymomo said:


> I know Lutron is all about silos for their product lines, but it's disappointing that they still haven't made the Caseta lamp dimmer available for RadioRA2. It looks much better and cleaner than having wires everywhere.


Well, they do have the "tabletop dimmer" models... I've got a number of those for table lamps, and you can just tuck them under a table if you don't want to see them. 

I get the J-box issues due to code, etc. but agree it would be nice to have a plug-in dimmer to make this more invisible...

Jeff


----------



## duckymomo

Is it possible using 3rd party software to have a Maestro dimmer switch control the lamp dimmers?


----------



## smoothtlk

duckymomo said:


> Is it possible using 3rd party software to have a Maestro dimmer switch control the lamp dimmers?


The Maestro dimmers are not able to be remotely controlled by any automation controller.

Look at Caseta, RadioRaSelect, RadioRa2, Z-Wave, Zigbee, Insteon, UPB. All of these can be controlled by an automation controller. Ensure the compatibility before buying either the controller or the lighting devices.


----------



## duckymomo

smoothtlk said:


> duckymomo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is it possible using 3rd party software to have a Maestro dimmer switch control the lamp dimmers?
> 
> 
> 
> The Maestro dimmers are not able to be remotely controlled by any automation controller.
> 
> Look at Caseta, RadioRaSelect, RadioRa2, Z-Wave, Zigbee, Insteon, UPB. All of these can be controlled by an automation controller. Ensure the compatibility before buying either the controller or the lighting devices.
Click to expand...

Yea, I meant to say RadioRA 2 Maestro dimmers.


----------



## smoothtlk

ah, ok, then YES...
automation controller ethernet RadioRa2 Main Repeater RF RadioRa2 Maestro dimmer

There are quite a few automation controllers that work with RadioRa2. Including Allonis's myServer (and Homeseer, CQC, and others).


----------



## duckymomo

smoothtlk said:


> ah, ok, then YES...
> automation controller ethernet RadioRa2 Main Repeater RF RadioRa2 Maestro dimmer
> 
> There are quite a few automation controllers that work with RadioRa2. Including Allonis's myServer (and Homeseer, CQC, and others).


Are there limitations to the state that the individual switch can report? On, off, dim levels etc...

My application would be to use RA dimmer switches instead of a Pico to wirelessly control the RA2 lamp dimmers, or other wired RA2 switches. 

For some reason, my wife really dislikes picos or smaller keypads buttons for light control. I don't like them either. Something about a big ol button to press without breaking stride is nice.


----------



## smoothtlk

Yes, you can do what you are looking to do (a radiora switch invoking a scene. A Scene for example defined to turn on a light to a certain dim value)
More capable is when an integrated automation system "hears" you touching the switch and invokes a macro that can do all kinds of stuff (turn on your AV equipment, launch a movie, etc).


----------



## duckymomo

smoothtlk said:


> More capable is when an integrated automation system "hears" you touching the switch and invokes a macro that can do all kinds of stuff (turn on your AV equipment, launch a movie, etc).


Thanks for the info! 

What's a typical latency range for a simple automation from a button press? Something like Lutron switch > RadioRA2 hub > Automation software > RadioRA2 hub > Lutron Dimmer.


----------



## FlyingDiver

duckymomo said:


> What's a typical latency range for a simple automation from a button press? Something like Lutron switch > RadioRA2 hub > Automation software > RadioRA2 hub > Lutron Dimmer.


Usually, for that scenario, you would not go through the automation software at all. You would program that linkage directly in the RRA2 software.

But for when you do what to do that, less than 1 second. Probably about 0.5 sec. I do that in one bathroom where I have a motion sensor, but I want to control how bright to set the light depending on the time of day (well, time of night, actually).


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> Usually, for that scenario, you would not go through the automation software at all. You would program that linkage directly in the RRA2 software.
> 
> But for when you do what to do that, less than 1 second. Probably about 0.5 sec. I do that in one bathroom where I have a motion sensor, but I want to control how bright to set the light depending on the time of day (well, time of night, actually).


It would be a hardwired switch triggering the activity, so not possible without 3rd party software.


----------



## smoothtlk

duckymomo said:


> It would be a hardwired switch triggering the activity, so not possible without 3rd party software.


I think what FlyingDiver is saying is you can program the "scene" within RA2 without an external automation controller:

Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Scene defined in the repeater Ra2 switch to be controlled. A typical 3way wiring example.

With a compatible automation system:

Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Automation controller Scene defined in the controller Ra2 Master repeater Ra2 switch to be controlled.

Which offers additional flexibility
Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Automation controller Scene defined in the controller Your projector, your AVR, your non RA2 LED lighting or text to voice or whatever including Ra2 devices

You can also do both strategies (simple scenes like 3 way circuits controlled via Ra2 programming vs. other that is controlled by automation controller). This is the most popular method when an automation controller is in the mix.

With regards to previous question on response time....if using a good automation controller LOCALLY on the home network, than near instant. If using a crappy cloud based controller than can be seconds to never (if Internet is down somewhere in the end to end connectivity).


----------



## dragonian

*LED Floods partially on when off*

I recently replaced a couple of outdoor 300W Halogen lights with 30W LED lights..._without thinking._
We have a problem.. about half of the led array is on, even when the switch is off. If I pull the FASS lever, they of course shut off. 
My assumption is that trickle current for the keypad is enough current to bias the array partially.

The 2 fixtures in question are driven by a Hybrid keypad (RRD-H6BRL) and a RRD-6D. At this point, I only installed the one attached to the hybrid keypad.
I'm kinda assuming that the 6D will have the same problem. I forgot what the situation with these switches was.. apparently I put them in in 2013 !
I checked, and there are no neutrals in this wall box 

I'm assuming that if I had the neutral, this would not happen.

So the question.. any way to fix it?

Return the lights, and go back to halogen... not sure I love this option, as I never loved the halogen, and the bulbs had to be replaced a couple of times.
Tear open the wall, and rewire the entire thing. I don't yet know if the 2 lights are on the same circuit, or were they are fed from.. so this could be challenging.
Some other hacky solution... I feel like I've seen a thread somewhere with something similar.. but cannot find it again.
Give up. The Keypad in this location is more important than the lights.. so i think that this one means that I need to change something to keep the keypad working.


----------



## FlyingDiver

You could try installing a dummy load:

https://www.homecontrols.com/PCS-Load-Resistor-for-LED-Lighting-PCILR10K


----------



## DMILANI

smoothtlk said:


> duckymomo said:
> 
> 
> 
> It would be a hardwired switch triggering the activity, so not possible without 3rd party software.
> 
> 
> 
> I think what FlyingDiver is saying is you can program the "scene" within RA2 without an external automation controller:
> 
> Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Scene defined in the repeater Ra2 switch to be controlled. A typical 3way wiring example.
> 
> With a compatible automation system:
> 
> Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Automation controller Scene defined in the controller Ra2 Master repeater Ra2 switch to be controlled.
> 
> Which offers additional flexibility
> Wall switch Ra2 Master repeater Automation controller Scene defined in the controller Your projector, your AVR, your non RA2 LED lighting or text to voice or whatever including Ra2 devices
> 
> You can also do both strategies (simple scenes like 3 way circuits controlled via Ra2 programming vs. other that is controlled by automation controller). This is the most popular method when an automation controller is in the mix.
> 
> With regards to previous question on response time....if using a good automation controller LOCALLY on the home network, than near instant. If using a crappy cloud based controller than can be seconds to never (if Internet is down somewhere in the end to end connectivity).
Click to expand...

I wasn’t aware you could trigger a scene using a hardwired RA2 dimmer or switch. I was always under the impression that Homeworks was needed for something like this. Where in the software do I do this?


----------



## smoothtlk

Basic scenes are programmed in the RadioRa2 software. To get the software you have to go through training. Training is where you learn the how to program answers.

An automation controller is a more capable, more advanced way of doing scenes. Homeworks is somewhere between a lighting system and a basic automation controller. There is no need for Homeworks for programming this stuff. Much more capable is the number of true automation controllers that are far less expensive. Homeworks is if you have a very large scale lighting system and budget for the best of the best in switch look and feel. Requires an authorized dealer to install and program. Ra2 is supposed to be dealer only as well, though easier to DIY than Homeworks.


----------



## duckymomo

smoothtlk said:


> Basic scenes are programmed in the RadioRa2 software. To get the software you have to go through training. Training is where you learn the how to program answers.


This is news to me as well. Everything I've read about RA2 says there's no conditional logic. So you can't use a hardwired switch to initiate a scene that turns on/off other lights. Only Picos can be used for scenes.


----------



## FlyingDiver

duckymomo said:


> This is news to me as well. Everything I've read about RA2 says there's no conditional logic. So you can't use a hardwired switch to initiate a scene that turns on/off other lights. Only Picos can be used for scenes.


Picos or keypads. Which can be wall mounted, and in the case of the hybrid units, are also switches/dimmers.


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> Picos or keypads. Which can be wall mounted, and in the case of the hybrid units, are also switches/dimmers.


That's right, forgot the keypads.


----------



## DMILANI

I took the training many years ago and have been programming with the software for just as long. I’m still not seeing how or where to program a hardwired dimmer to invoke a scene that includes other lights. I’m not talking about keypads or Picos, those are obviously capable of this. But I’m specifically asking about your suggestion that dimmers or switches can be used. 

And I also have a Control4 system fully integrated with RA2, so have addition programming capability with Lutron. But I’d like to understand how this is done in the Lutron Essentials software. 



smoothtlk said:


> Basic scenes are programmed in the RadioRa2 software. To get the software you have to go through training. Training is where you learn the how to program answers.
> 
> An automation controller is a more capable, more advanced way of doing scenes. Homeworks is somewhere between a lighting system and a basic automation controller. There is no need for Homeworks for programming this stuff. Much more capable is the number of true automation controllers that are far less expensive. Homeworks is if you have a very large scale lighting system and budget for the best of the best in switch look and feel. Requires an authorized dealer to install and program. Ra2 is supposed to be dealer only as well, though easier to DIY than Homeworks.


----------



## duckymomo

Testing Homeseer and the delay is 3 seconds from button press of the hardwired switch to the 2nd device activating. That's way too long for me. 

I also tested Homekit as the controller and it has the exact same 3 second delay. So it looks like that's the delay regardless of controller. 

Bummer..... Back to square one I guess.


----------



## DMILANI

duckymomo said:


> Testing Homeseer and the delay is 3 seconds from button press of the hardwired switch to the 2nd device activating. That's way too long for me.
> 
> I also tested Homekit as the controller and it has the exact same 3 second delay. So it looks like that's the delay regardless of controller.
> 
> Bummer..... Back to square one I guess.


When I command my RA2 lights through Control4 there is no noticeable delay. It’s almost instant and similar to what I see when using the Lutron app on my iPhone. I used to have an RTI control system and that was just as fast. 

Now this is just for controlling lights or scenes directly from Control4. I have not tested sensing a button press of one dimmer and using that to trigger other lights.


----------



## duckymomo

DMILANI said:


> When I command my RA2 lights through Control4 there is no noticeable delay. It’s almost instant and similar to what I see when using the Lutron app on my iPhone. I used to have an RTI control system and that was just as fast.
> 
> Now this is just for controlling lights or scenes directly from Control4. I have not tested sensing a button press of one dimmer and using that to trigger other lights.


There's no delay if I'm issuing the command through the software. It's only when the software has to poll the Lutron hub for a change and then issue the command. 

Do you have any automations like that? I'd hate to drop $20k just to get simple no delay automations lol.


----------



## FlyingDiver

A much cheaper solution would be to replace the existing switch with a hybrid unit, then program a keypad button for the scene (including the local switch/dimmer).

It's possible that Homeseer is just bad at what you're trying to do. It shouldn't need to poll the Lutron system for the change, it should be seeing the command come in on the automation interface in real time. 

I'll set up a test automation on my Indigo system and try it out there.

Edit: Just did a quick test. I didn't activate a scene, but I did have Indigo do a "match brightness" so that when one light changed, it sent a matching brightness command to the other Lutron dimmer. Delay was about half a second.


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> A much cheaper solution would be to replace the existing switch with a hybrid unit, then program a keypad button for the scene (including the local switch/dimmer).
> 
> It's possible that Homeseer is just bad at what you're trying to do. It shouldn't need to poll the Lutron system for the change, it should be seeing the command come in on the automation interface in real time.
> 
> I'll set up a test automation on my Indigo system and try it out there.
> 
> Edit: Just did a quick test. I didn't activate a scene, but I did have Indigo do a "match brightness" so that when one light changed, it sent a matching brightness command to the other Lutron dimmer. Delay was about half a second.


Thanks for checking! I'll test Indigo next.


----------



## FlyingDiver

duckymomo said:


> Thanks for checking! I'll test Indigo next.


FYI - I'm the developer/maintainer of the Lutron plugin for Indigo. Plus a couple dozen others.


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> FYI - I'm the developer/maintainer of the Lutron plugin for Indigo. Plus a couple dozen others.


Very cool. I really like the Indigo software, very intuitive and easy to use. The default view with event log on the right is perfect. Took maybe 10 minutes to get up and running. Not to mention, Mac automation software is pretty rare. 

Unfortunately the delay only improved to 2.7 seconds. It's strange, anything triggered in the software is instant. It doesn't seem like there's any reason for it to take that long. 

Whenever you have time, can you try the wired switch on/off triggering another switch/lamp dimmer?


----------



## FlyingDiver

duckymomo said:


> Whenever you have time, can you try the wired switch on/off triggering another switch/lamp dimmer?


How strange. My first test was using a keypad (W6BRL) button that's programmed to control one circuit in a WPM module. That was very quick. But after you posted, I tried using an actual 6CL dimmer switch as the trigger. Then I saw the same delay you do. And watching the Indigo log while I had my wife turn the switch on and off showed me that the delay was actually coming from the Lutron repeater. Or more likely the dimmer switch. So the root of your problem is that the dimmer doesn't report it's state change fast enough to make this an acceptable solution.

So you're back to replacing it with a hybrid, which should work, since it's telling the the repeater what it's doing (on the keypad side) while it's controlling the switch. The actual linkage between the hybrid keypad and the hybrid dimmer is controlled by the repeater. It's not a hard link that bypasses the repeater.


----------



## smoothtlk

Is the delay waiting for a status update? Or waiting for the command to be "heard" by the automation controller?
For delayed status returns, we force a var update on command and then the status update will subsequently update the same var the same value (on or off).


----------



## FlyingDiver

The delay is the Lutron repeater sending out the device change message to the automation interface (IP or serial). There's no polling going on, so there's no waiting for status updates. At least with Indigo.


----------



## duckymomo

Wonder if the delay is intentional to keep poor folk from getting a Homeworks experience on a RadioRA budget.


----------



## FlyingDiver

I suspect it's actually just an artifact of the way that the dimmer switches operate. They may not send a status update to the repeater until they're completely done with their state change. Or they send continuous updates while changing states, and the repeater waits a bit to make sure there's no more updates coming in before it sends out the report.


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> I suspect it's actually just an artifact of the way that the dimmer switches operate. They may not send a status update to the repeater until they're completely done with their state change. Or they send continuous updates while changing states, and the repeater waits a bit to make sure there's no more updates coming in before it sends out the report.


The on/off switches have the same delay. Also tried some Caseta switches with the same result.


----------



## schalliol

This conversation has been informative. I use RTI and found try one if helpful, but I believe it will be similar.


----------



## bill.d

FlyingDiver said:


> I suspect it's actually just an artifact of the way that the dimmer switches operate. They may not send a status update to the repeater until they're completely done with their state change. Or they send continuous updates while changing states, and the repeater waits a bit to make sure there's no more updates coming in before it sends out the report.


I think that's correct. Changing the ramp rates on the dimmers to zero should affect (shorten) any delay from the main repeater. There are ways in the controller app to influence response time as well.

I ran a test in Hubitat. There are a few different apps that will mirror states between dimmers. In an unscientific test most of the time the lights got to the same state within about 0.5 seconds. Never more than 1 second.


----------



## duckymomo

bill.d said:


> I think that's correct. Changing the ramp rates on the dimmers to zero should affect (shorten) any delay from the main repeater. There are ways in the controller app to influence response time as well.
> 
> I ran a test in Hubitat. There are a few different apps that will mirror states between dimmers. In an unscientific test most of the time the lights got to the same state within about 0.5 seconds. Never more than 1 second.


It's not ramp rate because it does this with switches as well. Homekit is as integrated as it gets with Lutron and it has the same delay. 

The test is very simple, you physically turn on/off a switch to trigger another switch/dimmer. Don't use any apps to make the change, those are pretty much instant and not an issue.


----------



## bill.d

duckymomo said:


> It's not ramp rate because it does this with switches as well. Homekit is as integrated as it gets with Lutron and it has the same delay.
> 
> The test is very simple, you physically turn on/off a switch to trigger another switch/dimmer. Don't use any apps to make the change, those are pretty much instant and not an issue.


It's not clear to me what software you are talking about. In my tests with Hubitat triggering the lead dimmer directly from within the Hubitat software does also result in the following dimmer responding faster than when triggered using the physical dimmer button. The software trigger is well less than 1 second. The hardware is a little longer, about 1 second.

That says to me that the Main Repeater has a delay between pressing the physical button and sending the Telnet message. That Telnet message is what all regular 3rd party automation controllers use to interface with the Main Repeater. I'm not sure how HomeKit is integrated, but I wouldn't be surprised that it follows the same logic even if sent over a different protocol. 

There are all sorts of places where delays can enter within the automation controller. Does the automation controller send the command to the following dimmer after the Lutron Main Repeater reports the status of the lead dimmer? Or does it send the command to the follower when it receives the the command from the lead dimmer? Some automation controllers differentiate between power state and dim level. These small differences can make a difference, especially to perception.


----------



## FlyingDiver

bill.d said:


> It's not clear to me what software you are talking about. In my tests with Hubitat triggering the lead dimmer directly from within the Hubitat software does also result in the following dimmer responding faster than when triggered using the physical dimmer button. The software trigger is well less than 1 second. The hardware is a little longer, about 1 second.


Any action initiated by the automation system, or initiated by an actual keypad, but not a switch or dimmer, don't exhibit the issue we're discussing here.



bill.d said:


> There are all sorts of places where delays can enter within the automation controller. Does the automation controller send the command to the following dimmer after the Lutron Main Repeater reports the status of the lead dimmer? Or does it send the command to the follower when it receives the the command from the lead dimmer? Some automation controllers differentiate between power state and dim level. These small differences can make a difference, especially to perception.


The automation controller never sees "the command from the lead dimmer". The only things any automation controller sees are messages from the Lutron repeater. In this case, there is a significant delay (> 2 seconds) between the time the switch or dimmer is activated (physical button pressed) and *any* message from the Lutron repeater reporting this event.


----------



## thebland

*Shade Control Question*

I’m trying to program a set of shades to stop 10” short of the bottom of the window (wife has a small flower pot in that window frame). However it seems the only way it’ll work is if I do it as a scene. That’s fine but then that button won’t work to bring them up (as it’s a scene rather than a toggle). 

When I try shade toggle I can’t or I don’t see how to program an option to stop the shades just short of the bottom of the window. Is there a way to do a shade toggle where I don’t have the shades go all the way to the bottom of the window but to a preset length??

Thanks!!


----------



## markrubin

^
Tools/set shade limits


----------



## thebland

markrubin said:


> ^
> Tools/set shade limits


Got it. I'm at my office and when I hit "tools' and 'set shade limits', it brings up the Main Repeater screen. I assume I have to have a direct connection to the system?

I'm at my office with my Lutron software and can't connect to my set up.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## markrubin

thebland said:


> Got it. I'm at my office and when I hit "tools' and 'set shade limits', it brings up the Main Repeater screen. I assume I have to have a direct connection to the system?
> 
> I'm at my office with my Lutron software and can't connect to my set up.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!



you have to be connected to the system: then you can select which shade and set a stop: it lets you test it too
another way to do it is set a control/program button to a % open or closed: that way the stop is set only in the control(s)
either way you can determine the % you want from the set shade limit menu


----------



## thebland

markrubin said:


> you have to be connected to the system: then you can select which shade and set a stop: it lets you test it too
> another way to do it is set a control/program button to a % open or closed: that way the stop is set only in the control(s)
> either way you can determine the % you want from the set shade limit menu


Mark to the rescue. I need to stop at 10% open. OK. I'll get at it at home. 

Thanks so much!


----------



## markrubin

thebland said:


> Mark to the rescue. I need to stop at 10% open. OK. I'll get at it at home.
> 
> Thanks so much!


Jeff
please check your PM's
Mark


----------



## spiwrx

Not sure if any of you have got this message yet, but in case it applies to you:

*Important Update for Lutron and Sonos Users * *Note: * * • * *This update only impacts customers that have integrated Sonos products* into their Lutron system (Caséta, RA2 Select, RadioRA 2, or HomeWorks)*.* * • * *If you do not have Sonos products* tied to your Lutron system, you will not be affected, and *you may disregard this email.* What is happening? Sonos released a new version of their app (S2) that is not compatible with some of their older products. Learn more about S2 and see which products are compatible here. For most Lutron customers, it won’t have any impact. However, *if your Sonos system includes products that are compatible with S2 AND products that are not, your Lutron/Sonos integration could be impacted.
DO NOT UPDATE TO S2 BEFORE READING THIS FAQ*.


----------



## spiwrx

A few more calls last week of people updating their devices (phone/tablet) and now there "APP" doesn't work. 

Just a reminder, Lutron discontinued support for the Home Control + App in Lieu of the "Connect" app which requires a connect bridge. 

As long as you don't update you device or RR2 Software/Firmware it will continue to work. Once you do, you will need to bite the bullet on the connect bridge...

Hope you all are staying healthy. We have eluded COVID thus far at work and home, But it's starting to effect our outer circles...


----------



## duckymomo

FlyingDiver said:


> Any action initiated by the automation system, or initiated by an actual keypad, but not a switch or dimmer, don't exhibit the issue we're discussing here.


Can button presses on a seeTouch keypad be used to trigger events with your plugin? 

I've decided to go full RA2 and I'm trying to use the keypads to control Serena shades. Worst case I would just use a lamp dimmer connected to nothing and then mirror the status of the dimmer with the shades.


----------



## FlyingDiver

duckymomo said:


> Can button presses on a seeTouch keypad be used to trigger events with your plugin?


Yes.


----------



## socalsharky

duckymomo said:


> Can button presses on a seeTouch keypad be used to trigger events with your plugin?
> 
> I've decided to go full RA2 and I'm trying to use the keypads to control Serena shades. Worst case I would just use a lamp dimmer connected to nothing and then mirror the status of the dimmer with the shades.


Yes, I do this within Homeseer to control both Lutron and Zwave devices.


----------



## duckymomo

Thanks for the info! 

RA2 Select really misses out on all the configuration options and lack of keypads.


----------



## duckymomo

socalsharky said:


> Yes, I do this within Homeseer to control both Lutron and Zwave devices.


Do you have the new version of Homeseer? How's the uptime and are there times it misses a command or action?


----------



## socalsharky

duckymomo said:


> Do you have the new version of Homeseer? How's the uptime and are there times it misses a command or action?


I am still using HS3. I have purchased the HS4 upgrade, but have not installed. Have you heard of issues with missed commands? No issues with missed commands on HS3. The RadioRA2 plugin works great.


----------



## duckymomo

socalsharky said:


> I am still using HS3. I have purchased the HS4 upgrade, but have not installed. Have you heard of issues with missed commands? No issues with missed commands on HS3. The RadioRA2 plugin works great.


Just read about issues with memory leaks and the software becoming unresponsive over time.


----------



## duckymomo

I've been testing one of the hybrid keypads and I'm pleasantly surprised. The rounded buttons really make a difference in being able to easily feel and press the button. I thought there's no way I'd like it as much as the Maestro switches. The tactile click/feel is perfect. I pay attention to dumb stuff like that and this is where Lutron really separates itself from the competition (besides the almost perfect reliability, of course). 

So far it's been 100% reliable paired with Indigo so I can integrate 27 Serena shades. It's also nice to use the Caseta lamp dimmers that have a cleaner form factor than the RA2 models.


----------



## spiwrx

duckymomo said:


> Just read about issues with memory leaks and the software becoming unresponsive over time.


Not sure if this is my issue or because I have it running on a PI. The PI itself is fine but I think like other projects on PI, the card get corrupted over time and stops working
I didn't have a PC running full time, but now I do. I'll probably switch up to software version. At least when my PLEX stops working, because windows update or some BS, that my HS3 is probably also down. 

From earlier posts, I was using a switch button press as well as a keypad button press to trigger a countdown timer for the same light.


----------



## spiwrx

I'm sort of liking the new look of the forum. Funny becasue another forum I frequent did similar and was really annoying.


----------



## smoothtlk

spiwrx said:


> Not sure if this is my issue or because I have it running on a PI. The PI itself is fine but I think like other projects on PI, the card get corrupted over time and stops working
> I didn't have a PC running full time, but now I do. I'll probably switch up to software version. At least when my PLEX stops working, because windows update or some BS, that my HS3 is probably also down.


You should look into updating the Pi firmware (pi4?) to boot off of USB. Much faster and more reliable than the SDMicro. Pi4 only.
myServer 6 runs by default off USB. You can also use the SDMicro as a backup boot drive with more firmware boot tweeks.


----------



## DarrenGM

I am replacing a bathroom fan with a new Panasonic FV-0511VK2 WhisperGreen Multi-Flow Bathroom Fan and want to replace my single pole switch with a RadioRA2 switch. Anyone know which Switch to use? I have a neutral in the box and the fan has (Green, Black, White, Red, Red) while the switch has Black, White, Green/Ground). Looking for what model number RadioRA2 switch I should use...anyone have experience with such? I wish to wire it as the third option utilize the two red wires. Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

@DarrenGM Just the regular RRD-8ANS should do fine if you have a neutral to switch the main power on this unit. I sell both these items and use them together often. The Panasonic does weird things on the Red / Red wires. Do not connect these to anything that switches to hot or line voltage. Internally the red wires are connected to neutral. It will require a switch of it's own to take advantage of that feature. If you don't care about that feature leave the red wires disconnected but capped off. If you are not going to be able to use that feature that have a less expensive fan without it.

The red wires do different things depending on any modules you are using. This is Panasonic's "Best" fan but it does some weird things, be sure you read all the documentation to understand it. If you just need a bath fan the FV-0511VQ1 is their best without any additional bells and whistles.


----------



## DarrenGM

Thanks! Currently I'm using a normal switch (non RR2) to control the old fan but this new fan, I would use the RRD-8ANS. But what would I use if I wanted to use the red wires ? Another switch next to the RRD-8ANS but which one? Thanks for you help


----------



## spiwrx

DarrenGM said:


> ...But what would I use if I wanted to use the red wires ? Another switch next to the RRD-8ANS but which one?


You can use any standard switch, but if you want it as an option controlled by RR2 you need another RRD-8ANS switch and small relay to isolate it as a contact closure.


----------



## spiwrx

DarrenGM said:


> .


Crude Drawing, but something like this:


----------



## duckymomo

I've had zero luck finding a dealer to quote me some Sivoia QS shades. Anyone know a good dealer who can have them drop shipped?


----------



## rapamatic

duckymomo said:


> I've had zero luck finding a dealer to quote me some Sivoia QS shades. Anyone know a good dealer who can have them drop shipped?


Check with Paul (spiwrx). Gotta support the guy who gives back constantly on this forum. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spiwrx

duckymomo said:


> I've had zero luck finding a dealer to quote me some Sivoia QS shades. Anyone know a good dealer who can have them drop shipped?


I'm getting more consistent notifications since they upgraded the forum but best(quickest) way to get a hold of me is still email.


----------



## ksalno

After an upgrade to the latest Essentials software, I lost some programming I had done for a room we had redone several years ago. Not sure how this happened but I am going through the process of factory defaulting everything and re-adding it. No problem with HVAC controller, dimmers, or keypad but I can't figure out how to get the wireless temp sensor linked to the controller nor can I figure out how to add the Lutron roller shade we have in the room. I can't find anything in the installation instructions for how to return these two devices to factory settings, so they can be re-added. Any suggestions?


----------



## spiwrx

In the activation for shades you should be able to "wiggle" the shades and the system should find your shades. There are different types of shades that reset differently. This is one type:








Here is the triathlon:


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> After an upgrade to the latest Essentials software, I lost some programming I had done for a room we had redone several years ago. Not sure how this happened but I am going through the process of factory defaulting everything and re-adding it. No problem with HVAC controller, dimmers, or keypad but I can't figure out how to get the wireless temp sensor linked to the controller nor can I figure out how to add the Lutron roller shade we have in the room. I can't find anything in the installation instructions for how to return these two devices to factory settings, so they can be re-added. Any suggestions?



If you had saved an old project file, you might still find all the serial codes for the devices. This is the easiest was without having to default any devices.

Most of the factory default instructions are found in this document:
https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDoc...ear_Connect_RF_Devices_to_Factory_Default.pdf


----------



## spiwrx

This problem comes up once in a while, usually when things are updated, main repeater failure or otherwise unintentionally altered. 
Also you can initially program by recording the serial numbers of the devices. In fact they started adding this information to the packaging, not just on the device anymore. 
It is a good idea to have a record of it one way or another. Either save a backup of your job file or manually record them in a spreadsheet or document. Unfortunately they do not have a report to export these I'm aware of. 

If you saved a copy of your project file as a backup, you should be able to find all the serial numbers under the activation tab.
If you want to program a new system, you only have to enter the serial codes for the devices in the activation tab instead of doing the walk-around. 

I think this is rather straight forward but if you have questions, please ask.


----------



## ksalno

spiwrx said:


> This problem comes up once in a while, usually when things are updated, main repeater failure or otherwise unintentionally altered.
> Also you can initially program by recording the serial numbers of the devices. In fact they started adding this information to the packaging, not just on the device anymore.
> It is a good idea to have a record of it one way or another. Either save a backup of your job file or manually record them in a spreadsheet or document. Unfortunately they do not have a report to export these I'm aware of.
> 
> If you saved a copy of your project file as a backup, you should be able to find all the serial numbers under the activation tab.
> If you want to program a new system, you only have to enter the serial codes for the devices in the activation tab instead of doing the walk-around.
> 
> I think this is rather straight forward but if you have questions, please ask.
> View attachment 3032008


Thanks for all the tips. I was able to successfully reset the shades (they really don't make that button easy to see) and the temp sensor and those are all working fine. Struggling now to add a RRD-8ANS-IV to handle some LV outdoor lights. Just received the new switch today to replace an RRD-6NA dimmer that couldn't handle the load but the new switch appears to be DOA. I can't get anything out of it. LED doesn't light up but I can measure the input voltage, so I know it is getting a feed. If I swap in the dimmer, it works fine but gets too hot, which is why I'm switching it out.


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> Thanks for all the tips. I was able to successfully reset the shades (they really don't make that button easy to see) and the temp sensor and those are all working fine. Struggling now to add a RRD-8ANS-IV to handle some LV outdoor lights. Just received the new switch today to replace an RRD-6NA dimmer that couldn't handle the load but the new switch appears to be DOA. I can't get anything out of it. LED doesn't light up but I can measure the input voltage, so I know it is getting a feed. If I swap in the dimmer, it works fine but gets too hot, which is why I'm switching it out.


If you have a heavily loaded switch/dimmer it's normal to get hot. As long as you use the appropriate size dimmer and de-rating if multi-gang, they can easily get well over 100degrees(f). 
I have a 8ans switch with about 3oowatts that gets pretty warm even. 

8ANS only has a 10watt minimum, so just your landscape transformer should be enough load. If you have no load on the dimmer, it won't work. Landscape Transformer can complicate the issue if it has a timer, photocell, unplugged, etc...????


----------



## ksalno

spiwrx said:


> If you have a heavily loaded switch/dimmer it's normal to get hot. As long as you use the appropriate size dimmer and de-rating if multi-gang, they can easily get well over 100degrees(f).
> I have a 8ans switch with about 3oowatts that gets pretty warm even.
> 
> 8ANS only has a 10watt minimum, so just your landscape transformer should be enough load. If you have no load on the dimmer, it won't work. Landscape Transformer can complicate the issue if it has a timer, photocell, unplugged, etc...????


There is a LV transformer, as all of the fixtures operate off 12v DC. There is no timer or photocell and it can’t be disconnected, since it works when I reconnect the dimmer. The 10w minimum is interesting. Since the lights aren’t on, they aren’t drawing anything and I’m not sure what load the transformer is putting on it. But when the lights turn on there has to be way more than 10w load. I don’t know how to calculate the mix of LED and incandescent but there is at least 160w of LEDs and another 100w or so of incandescent.


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> There is a LV transformer, as all of the fixtures operate off 12v DC. There is no timer or photocell and it can’t be disconnected, since it works when I reconnect the dimmer. The 10w minimum is interesting. Since the lights aren’t on, they aren’t drawing anything and I’m not sure what load the transformer is putting on it. But when the lights turn on there has to be way more than 10w load. I don’t know how to calculate the mix of LED and incandescent but there is at least 160w of LEDs and another 100w or so of incandescent.


Interesting, I had a stubborn landscape situation like this as well. The mix of LED / Incandescent should only help with compatibility. Most landscape transformer are AC but that wouldn't matter.
I think I had the opposite situation and I switched from a switch to a dimmer to get it to work. If you are concerned about the heat, it supposedly OK up to 140degrees, but the next higher rated dimmer is RRD-10ND. However with a 160watt load you shouldn't need anything more than you have. Assuming there are no wiring issues I would be interested to know the model of transformer you have? 










https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Dimmer_Heat.pdf


----------



## ksalno

Is there something unusual with 12.7.0 software? I've tried transferring my project file multiple times and it isn't taking. My keypads don't work without multiple button presses and the timeclock function stopped working completely. I upgraded from 12.1 before I made my most recent changes, which only involved adding a keypad, some dimmers, an HVAC controller and temp sensor, and a shade. The updates all worked. So I can only assume there is an issue with this new software.


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> Is there something unusual with 12.7.0 software? I've tried transferring my project file multiple times and it isn't taking. My keypads don't work without multiple button presses and the timeclock function stopped working completely. I upgraded from 12.1 before I made my most recent changes, which only involved adding a keypad, some dimmers, an HVAC controller and temp sensor, and a shade. The updates all worked. So I can only assume there is an issue with this new software.


I haven't heard of one. But I only have done 1 new project on 12.7 and haven't upgrade my own system yet. If it was that major of a problem we'd be on 12.8 already. Also sound like a range and/or wifi/Ethernet issue. I had trouble upgrading firmware to 12.7 but was instructed to plug directly into the repeater for firmware updates.


----------



## ksalno

That's interesting. After I installed, the transfer process never said anything about a firmware update. I'm sure there is a way to check the firmware version that is running but can't find it in either the Inclusive software or Lutron Connect app.


----------



## FlyingDiver

I need some help with an RRa2 system and HomeKit/Siri. I just installed a Connect Bridge and want to use Siri to execute some shared scenes. They're programmed to Repeater Phantom buttons, which don't show up in the Connect app, so I can't share them to HomeKit. I added them to keypad buttons, but those don't show up in the app either. It appears that I can only share actual devices to HomeKit. How the heck to I execute the scenes?


----------



## spiwrx

FlyingDiver said:


> I need some help with an RRa2 system and HomeKit/Siri. I just installed a Connect Bridge and want to use Siri to execute some shared scenes. They're programmed to Repeater Phantom buttons, which don't show up in the Connect app, so I can't share them to HomeKit. I added them to keypad buttons, but those don't show up in the app either. It appears that I can only share actual devices to HomeKit. How the heck to I execute the scenes?


Maybe you tried this, but for this reason we use to build into the programming(RR2) a keypad that didn't (physically) exist. It would be an unactivated device in activation and would fail on transfer, but would show up in the older APP and function trhough the APP. Now they have added a "Homeowner Keypad" into the devices in the RR2 software. I would try this. However maybe someone with more Homekit/Siri experience can chime in, I am more of an Alexa person.


----------



## FlyingDiver

The Homeowner keypad shows up in the Lutron Connect app, but not in the page to export to HomeKit. And you can't assign a shared scene to the Homeowner keypad buttons. I had to recreate the scene on those buttons.

My Shared Scenes that are assigned to normal keypad buttons are visible in the Lutron Connect app, but again aren't visible in Home.


----------



## spiwrx

If you change them from Shared or Regular Scene (single/Multi-room or Path) they should pop-up. This maybe easier than all this other mess. You can simply change the button type. Likewise you can temporarily change a shared scene to a regular one and copy/paste that button to homeowner keypad or phantom button. Just remember to change the button you copied back to a shared scene. This sucks because you would have to remember to change them back to shared if you want to use that programming functionality when adjust anything or remember to make those adjustments manually to all the keypads that share that button. 

For those not aware, a "Shared" scene in Radio Ra 2 is a programming practice in which a change to that shared scene button on one keypad would change it for all keypads which have the same shared scene button. "All On" & "All Off" are perfect examples, and set up by default when you select shared scene as a button type, you can also create your own. As a shared scene you don't have to edit them multiple times across multiple keypads. This saves a lot of time when you are using multiple keypads with similar functionality. However "Shared Scenes" cannot be edited in the Connect APP and apparently from FlyingDiver experience, one you cannot access through homekit either. This is really only a timesaver in programming, with the system working and programming dialed in, the system won't function any differently as a Shared Scene or regular Scene. Just keep in mind if you turn off shared scene say for "All Off" and edit it on one button in your APP, it will only effect the button you are working on. 

Reminder you can copy/paste button from one keypad to another as well as copy/paste the entire keypad by right clicking on the plate around the keypad. 
For copying the entire keypad, must be like devices (e.g. 6 button to 6 button) if you go 4 to 6 or 6 to 4 you will lose some of the buttons.


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## bill.d

FlyingDiver said:


> I need some help with an RRa2 system and HomeKit/Siri. I just installed a Connect Bridge and want to use Siri to execute some shared scenes. They're programmed to Repeater Phantom buttons, which don't show up in the Connect app, so I can't share them to HomeKit. I added them to keypad buttons, but those don't show up in the app either. It appears that I can only share actual devices to HomeKit. How the heck to I execute the scenes?


HomeKit does not support buttons, only switches. So a Lutron keypad button doesn't/isn't mapped into HomeKit even if the button is set as a toggle scene. The alternative is to use a RRa2 compatible 3rd party hub like Hubitat or others that has a composite button/switch device. The issue is then that you have to also run a Homebridge server to get the Hubitat or other hub to integrate with HomeKit. It's not really complicated, but it does add 2 more integration points.


----------



## FlyingDiver

bill.d said:


> HomeKit does not support buttons, only switches. So a Lutron keypad button doesn't/isn't mapped into HomeKit even if the button is set as a toggle scene. The alternative is to use a RRa2 compatible 3rd party hub like Hubitat or others that has a composite button/switch device. The issue is then that you have to also run a Homebridge server to get the Hubitat or other hub to integrate with HomeKit. It's not really complicated, but it does add 2 more integration points.


Yeah, that's what I was doing before. Using Indigo with the HomeKit Bridge plugin. I guess I'll go back to that method for the scenes.


----------



## thebland

*Radio RA2 Telnet User Name/ Password for 3rd party integration question*

I am setting up a Crestron Home system in my place. I am trying to integrate Radio RA2 lighting but after adding the Main Repeater to Crestron Home software, I can't access it in Crestron Home as the user name and password I generated arenot correct. I generated it on the Integration Page in the Lutron Software.

Then I went to the Main Repeater IP address and entered theTelnet User/Password I generated in the RA software but it will not work - can't access my main repeater via IP. 

I can't recall setting up the main repeater with a username and password, but if I did I don't have it....

What am I missing here??? Thanks so much!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *Radio RA2 Telnet User Name/ Password for 3rd party integration question*
> 
> I am setting up a Crestron Home system in my place. I am trying to integrate Radio RA2 lighting but after adding the Main Repeater to Crestron Home software, I can't access it in Crestron Home as the user name and password I generated arenot correct. I generated it on the Integration Page in the Lutron Software.
> 
> Then I went to the Main Repeater IP address and entered theTelnet User/Password I generated in the RA software but it will not work - can't access my main repeater via IP.
> 
> I can't recall setting up the main repeater with a username and password, but if I did I don't have it....
> 
> What am I missing here??? Thanks so much!


I cannot speak on Crestron but these may help there are some documents in "3rd PArty Integration Driverss", "Technical Documents" & "Application Notes" that may help. Log into you myLutron account Specifically there is some info you may want to review in the 3rd PArty Integration Drivers on RR2 + Crestron. 















You may have to setup the default Lutron user id and password as it does not automatically appear anymore in recent versions of the software.
uid: lutron pw: default [Settings > Integration > add new telnet login]


----------



## spiwrx

There are some other documents that refer to default login as:
Login: "lutron" password: "integration"
Login: "lutron" password "1234"
You may also want to review this document:
https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/040249.pdf


----------



## FlyingDiver

I recommend just creating a new integration user specifically for the automation system and not relying on the default one.


----------



## thebland

Hey. Here’s a screen shot of my Telnet passwords. The bottom two are recently generated. Is the what you mean by generating a new integration user? I tried each of these user / passwords into Crestron and they’re not accepted. just not sure if this is what they want. 

Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> Hey. Here’s a screen shot of my Telnet passwords. The bottom two are recently generated. Is the what you mean by generating a new integration user? I tried each of these user / passwords into Crestron and they’re not accepted. just not sure if this is what they want.
> 
> Thanks for the help guys.


Stupid question. Are you doing a transfer after you add those telnet users?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

rapamatic said:


> Stupid question. Are you doing a transfer after you add those telnet users?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. I'm adding the Lutron Main repeater to Crestron Home. Crestron sees it on my network, adopts it but cannot unlock the contents until a user name and password (Lutron) is entered. This is where I'm stuck. Thanks!


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> No. I'm adding the Lutron Main repeater to Crestron Home. Crestron sees it on my network, adopts it but cannot unlock the contents until a user name and password (Lutron) is entered. This is where I'm stuck. Thanks!


I don’t think the telnet users are added to your main repeater until you transfer to the main repeater from the Lutron software. Just adding them to the Settings -> Integration table does not add them to your main repeater. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

rapamatic said:


> I don’t think the telnet users are added to your main repeater until you transfer to the main repeater from the Lutron software. Just adding them to the Settings -> Integration table does not add them to your main repeater.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I tried that but I'll upload again. Thanks!

Just strange - the rest of the Crestron system has been quite straight forward!


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> I tried that but I'll upload again. Thanks!
> 
> Just strange - the rest of the Crestron system has been quite straight forward!


Just curious - how did you get access to Crestron programming software? Are you an integrator? I had always thought they keep things locked down, but if their is a DIY path I'd love to learn about it!


----------



## spiwrx

I would add the "lutron" / "default" to your integration list as well as "lutron" / "1234"

If there is something built into the crestron side they might use an old credentials. Can't hurt to add them anyway.


----------



## thebland

I’ll give it a go. Thanks!!


----------



## thebland

Shocking but I had added a second password and saved and uploaded to Main Repeaters. Then I checked Crestron Home and the Main Repeater was seen as 'online'! A small win!!


----------



## thebland

*VIRTUAL BUTTONS?*

I have a control system I am programming and at this point, I can add individual switches - just keypad scenes. So, if I want to have control over an individual light, at this point, I have to have a keypad button.

Is there a way to simply make virtual buttons without a keypad or simplest to but a table top keypad with 10 or 15 buttons and program that for the individual light switches I want.

Thanks!!


----------



## DMILANI

You create the virtual buttons directly on the Main Repeater. Then have your control system trigger those buttons. I think they are called phantom buttons and you can program up to 100 of them.


----------



## gdfein

Spiwrx, I’m thinking of adding a Connect Bridge (Connect-BDG2-1) to my Lutron RA2 system. 

Is it just as sample as buy the device, plug-in power and Ethernet, and then add to project for control of my project via the Lutron Connect App? 

Is this something you might have available?

Feel free to PM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

DMILANI said:


> You create the virtual buttons directly on the Main Repeater. Then have your control system trigger those buttons. I think they are called phantom buttons and you can program up to 100 of them.


Where do I go to do such in the software? Thanks!!


----------



## spiwrx

gdfein said:


> Spiwrx, I’m thinking of adding a Connect Bridge (Connect-BDG2-1) to my Lutron RA2 system.
> 
> Is it just as sample as buy the device, plug-in power and Ethernet, and then add to project for control of my project via the Lutron Connect App?
> 
> Is this something you might have available?
> 
> Feel free to PM
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Connect Bridge has to be added/activated in the system software an updated/transferred before it will work. You cannot do this through the APP alone.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Where do I go to do such in the software? Thanks!!


For virtual buttons you have 3 options. Maybe 4
1) Use Phantom Buttons built into the main repeater*
2) Add a new keypad into the system. This can use Toggle / Path / Raise / Lower / Etc... _(This will fail on activation and transfer but will exist & work in the APP)_
3) Specifically add the Home Owner Keypad* (scenes only, no raise / lower)
4) If you have VCRX, this has a keypad built in as well, most people do not use.

* (1) & (3) are specifically meant for this but have limited features.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> For virtual buttons you have 3 options. Maybe 4
> 1) Use Phantom Buttons built into the main repeater*
> 2) Add a new keypad into the system. This can use Toggle / Path / Raise / Lower / Etc... _(This will fail on activation and transfer but will exist & work in the APP)_
> 3) Specifically add the Home Owner Keypad* (scenes only, no raise / lower)
> 4) If you have VCRX, this has a keypad built in as well, most people do not use.
> 
> * (1) & (3) are specifically meant for this but have limited features.
> 
> View attachment 3035795


Awesome!! What an awesome tutorial.

Thanks!!


----------



## DMILANI

I’m going to be adding some low voltage landscape lighting soon. Could I use something like LMJ-16R-DV-B to switch power to the transformer receptacle? I would then use a keypad to control or just program to come on at dusk.

Thoughts? I believe the LMJ-16R-DV-B is available in Essential software now, true?


----------



## smoothtlk

DMILANI said:


> I’m going to be adding some low voltage landscape lighting soon. Could I use something like LMJ-16R-DV-B to switch power to the transformer receptacle? I would then use a keypad to control or just program to come on at dusk.
> 
> Thoughts? I believe the LMJ-16R-DV-B is available in Essential software now, true?


yes, a relay can power the transformer up to 16Amp. That would be for one zone of lighting.


----------



## DMILANI

Thanks, I only need one zone.


----------



## intake

I’ve been using the appliance module RR-15APS-1-SW directly in the weather tight landscape lighting transformer box for several years now with no ill effects. It even works through the metal housing.


----------



## DMILANI

Thanks, I suppose that’s an option too. Where do you live? What is the climate like during summer/winter?


----------



## intake

South Texas. Everywhere from hot and humid to the teens and ice.


----------



## spiwrx

DMILANI said:


> I’m going to be adding some low voltage landscape lighting soon. Could I use something like LMJ-16R-DV-B to switch power to the transformer receptacle? I would then use a keypad to control or just program to come on at dusk.
> 
> Thoughts? I believe the LMJ-16R-DV-B is available in Essential software now, true?


This is fine for this. The plug-in may actually fit inside some of the landscape transformers that take a plug-in timer, though they are not specifically meant for this environment they should be fine. 
RR-3PD or RR-15APS(grounded, but might be harder to fit due to large cord)
Also, switch or dimmer mounted remotely might be the most cost effective.


----------



## DMILANI

Thanks Paul. Can you private message me the cost for the LMJ-16R-DV-B?

Thanks,
Dino


----------



## duckymomo

Just want to reiterate what many others have said, Paul is the man! Great service and very knowledgable. Going to get all the Lutron lighting and shades from him for my next house.


----------



## spiwrx

DMILANI said:


> Thanks Paul. Can you private message me the cost for the LMJ-16R-DV-B?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dino


DMILANI, If you are still using the same gmail, I sent you an email.


----------



## duckymomo

bill.d said:


> I'm a new forum member, and not the Bill mentioned above, but I do use Hubitat with my RadioRA 2 system. It's a good match for me..........


Are you still happy with the reliability of Hubitat?


----------



## bill.d

duckymomo said:


> Are you still happy with the reliability of Hubitat?


Short answer - yes. It's pretty easy to reliably extend the capabilities of a RadioRA 2 system with a Hubitat hub. My primary lighting use cases add conditional actions based on time of day or ambient light levels (as measured by both interior and exterior Zigbee sensors). 

Longer answer - the company is small (<10 employees?) and going through growing pains. Most of the current issues reported in their forums relate to Z-Wave performance. Due to a perfect storm (speculative) of increased demand (COVID, Wink and SmartThings refugees) and supply chain issues (COVID) the company was probably forced to release earlier than planned a new hub that includes the 700 series Z-Wave chipset. It's one of the first controllers to have that chipset. They've been releasing new firmware versions every couple of weeks to address the Z-Wave issues. I'd say it's mostly addressed now. Note that Zigbee devices work fine as long as the mesh is good and smart light bulbs are not paired directly to Hubitat (going through a Hue hub is fine).

Conclusion - Hubitat is all local and the user controls the firmware updates. If you stay away from Z-Wave devices (for now) the system is very reliable.


----------



## duckymomo

bill.d said:


> Short answer - yes. It's pretty easy to reliably extend the capabilities of a RadioRA 2 system with a Hubitat hub. My primary lighting use cases add conditional actions based on time of day or ambient light levels (as measured by both interior and exterior Zigbee sensors).
> 
> Longer answer - the company is small (<10 employees?) and going through growing pains. Most of the current issues reported in their forums relate to Z-Wave performance. Due to a perfect storm (speculative) of increased demand (COVID, Wink and SmartThings refugees) and supply chain issues (COVID) the company was probably forced to release earlier than planned a new hub that includes the 700 series Z-Wave chipset. It's one of the first controllers to have that chipset. They've been releasing new firmware versions every couple of weeks to address the Z-Wave issues. I'd say it's mostly addressed now. Note that Zigbee devices work fine as long as the mesh is good and smart light bulbs are not paired directly to Hubitat (going through a Hue hub is fine).
> 
> Conclusion - Hubitat is all local and the user controls the firmware updates. If you stay away from Z-Wave devices (for now) the system is very reliable.


Thanks for the feedback! It should be here next week. I'm planning to use it just for Lutron devices. 

So far, I haven't found anything that's reliable enough for me. I need something that's going to work 98% of the time or more.


----------



## spiwrx

Seem to be getting another wave of people inquiring on the Connect Bridge and APP. If you are still able to use the Home Control + App, just a reminder to not update your system or devices(phones/tablets). You will have to add a connect bridge & use the Connect App for APP control moving forward. For any new people or interest reading this, The older "Home Control +" APP is still out there but Lutron discontinued support for it and it only worked on local network for systems and devices not updated. New systems will require Connect Bridge and Connect app if App control is desired. Connect APP will work from anywhere you can get a connection and has many other benefits for integrations like voice control via Siri/Alexa/GoogleHome. I think this happened somewhere in early version 12 software, so I would say version 11 or prior should still work locally on Home Control +. I cannot comment on iOS or Android versions, but they may have to be equally as old or be able to run older Apps. 

"If it's not broke, don't fix it": If you are maintaining your own system you don't necessarily need to update your software/firmware unless you are having a problem. If you still plan on adding to your system I would stay up to date as you can. It can be problematic to upgrade from one version to another, if there are too many in between.


----------



## duckymomo

So far, Hubitat has been the most reliable Lutron plugin/controller I've used. Not a single missed action or command. I'm just using it for Lutron devices, so I haven't messed with Zwave or Zigbee.


----------



## bill.d

duckymomo said:


> So far, Hubitat has been the most reliable Lutron plugin/controller I've used. Not a single missed action or command. I'm just using it for Lutron devices, so I haven't messed with Zwave or Zigbee.


That's great. The one good reason to add Zigbee or Z-Wave devices to the mix is for sensors. There are a much wider array than are available from Lutron. Even motion sensors as the Lutron ones are quite large. I especially like the NYCE Zigbee sensors. They are small and work really well in stairwells at/near the foot of the stairs. If you do add battery sensors you need to add some wired repeaters to get a reliable system. I find Zigbee to be more reliable and easier to deal with especially with the current state of Z-Wave 700 series chipset.


----------



## ksalno

duckymomo said:


> So far, Hubitat has been the most reliable Lutron plugin/controller I've used. Not a single missed action or command. I'm just using it for Lutron devices, so I haven't messed with Zwave or Zigbee.


I just got the new model and started playing with it, are there any written instructions for how to set it up for RA2? It certainly doesn't seem as straight forward as Roomie or HomeSeer which will down load the config right from the main repeater.


----------



## bill.d

ksalno said:


> I just got the new model and started playing with it, are there any written instructions for how to set it up for RA2? It certainly doesn't seem as straight forward as Roomie or HomeSeer which will down load the config right from the main repeater.


Instructions here (illustrations are for Caséta, so adjust as necessary forRadioRA 2): Lutron Integrator - Hubitat Documentation
If you've got more than a few devices, use the configuration list method as documented in step 5. It's a one time deal. At the end of the install you will have in your Hubitat device list a Lutron Telnet connection, your main repeater(s), and all the physical devices.


----------



## markrubin

Lutron cellular shade battery issue
I have one cellular shade that is going through new batteries every few weeks: Other cellular shades in same house don’t show this issue:I have followed all Lutron guidelines
Lutron says to fill out ’dead battery questionnaire’ 
anyone see this? Shade is over 5 years old so out of warranty


----------



## duckymomo

markrubin said:


> Lutron cellular shade battery issue
> I have one cellular shade that is going through new batteries every few weeks: Other cellular shades in same house don’t show this issue:I have followed all Lutron guidelines
> Lutron says to fill out ’dead battery questionnaire’
> anyone see this? Shade is over 5 years old so out of warranty


You can try resetting it, but I've had to return one for repair for the same issue.


----------



## duckymomo

ksalno said:


> I just got the new model and started playing with it, are there any written instructions for how to set it up for RA2? It certainly doesn't seem as straight forward as Roomie or HomeSeer which will down load the config right from the main repeater.


At first, I really didn't like the interface. But after a few hours, it makes sense and now I prefer the browser-based interface to the standalone software options. 

The logging with timestamps is also great.


----------



## duckymomo

bill.d said:


> That's great. The one good reason to add Zigbee or Z-Wave devices to the mix is for sensors. There are a much wider array than are available from Lutron. Even motion sensors as the Lutron ones are quite large. I especially like the NYCE Zigbee sensors. They are small and work really well in stairwells at/near the foot of the stairs. If you do add battery sensors you need to add some wired repeaters to get a reliable system. I find Zigbee to be more reliable and easier to deal with especially with the current state of Z-Wave 700 series chipset.


I have Z-Wave stuff connected to my alarm panel. I really hate the lack of reliability compared to the Lutron products. Maybe Zigbee is better in this regard? 

It seems like they have a leg up on Z-Wave with the Amazon, Apple, and Google alliance.


----------



## bill.d

duckymomo said:


> I have Z-Wave stuff connected to my alarm panel. I really hate the lack of reliability compared to the Lutron products. Maybe Zigbee is better in this regard?
> 
> It seems like they have a leg up on Z-Wave with the Amazon, Apple, and Google alliance.


Z-Wave controllers are already niche products, so an alarm company controller is a niche-of-a-niche. I'd say my Z-Wave stuff is fairly stable now on Hubitat even as there are still minor issues with the new Z-Wave 700 chipset. Once the mesh is stable the system works pretty well.

It will be interesting to see where all these "alliances" go. Lutron is on the Zigbee Alliance board, Thread board, and are a member of the "Project Connected Home over IP" group. Silicon Labs produces components for both Zigbee and Z-Wave. Amazon appears to be sticking with Zigbee, the new Echo Show 10 has a controller in it.


----------



## thebland

I had a whole house of Zwave in my previous residence. My new place is all Radio Ra2.

To say the reliability and feedback of Lutron is light years ahead is an understatement. It is as bulletproof a system as I have encountered. Drop ZWave and go Lutron - you'll wonder why you you ever had ZWave.


----------



## markrubin

duckymomo said:


> You can try resetting it, but I've had to return one for repair for the same issue.


I was thinking of hard wiring the shade using a Lutron CSPS power supply to get around the battery issue: 
do you think that will work?


----------



## duckymomo

markrubin said:


> I was thinking of hard wiring the shade using a Lutron CSPS power supply to get around the battery issue:
> do you think that will work?


It's worth a shot, maybe get a cheaper power supply first to test it.


----------



## FlyingDiver

Does any know if the Caseta Smart Hub Pro is supposed to support the same Integration Protocol command to query battery status that the RRa2 repeater supports? Just about everything else works with my HA system driver, but not that.


----------



## duckymomo

I posted this in another thread responding to someone who knew nothing about Lutron. Thought it might be also useful here.


Lutron is very different than any other company in the space. They are the 800-lb gorilla in high end lighting with the patents and product line across many different markets, segments, all across the world. As for them exiting the residential market, their founder invented the first solid state dimmer in 1959, along with Lutron releasing the first IR controlled dimmer, first linear slide dimmer, first whole-home lighting control system, first customizable dimming system for different light sources, and the first 2-Way RF whole home lighting control system, etc etc....

Every company making RF switches is paying royalties to Lutron if they use things like polling. So yea, don't lump them in with other random companies that have withdrawn from the residential market or failed. Put some respect on their name, as they say.

They are also family owned privately held company, which allows for more longterm decision making. Anything is possible, but there is zero evidence based on 59 years of Lutron as a company to have any concerns about them suddenly exiting the residential space.

So what are you getting for your money if you buy a Lutron system? Let me list a few that matter to me personally:

*Reliability*: Lutron has a ~60 year track record of best in class reliability. It's what they built their company on and virtually nobody with actual experience with Lutron products will dispute that. There are plenty of 20-30+ year old systems still running perfectly and they try to keep parts available for obsolete systems for 10-15 years. The latency is much lower than Z-Wave and when properly installed, commands are received and executed 100% of the time. Clear Connect uses a dedicated and heavily regulated frequency, the others do not. It's the most robust and reliable wireless system there is, period. Any disputing of this fact is just silly and disconnected from 20+ years of evidence and tens of thousands of reviews from end users of competing products.

No mesh network needed, no hops, no rebuilds, no firmware updates to fix bugs from the 100s of manufacturers trying to work with a standard that has lots of optional features and not every company properly implements. I (and apparently many others according to reviews) was lucky to get even 1-2 years from most of my Zwave switches. My Z-Wave hub recently got an update with like 80 bug fixes for all the devices from different manufacturers that weren't working as they should according to the spec.

An open system with 500 different parties will never be more reliable than a well-designed and implemented closed ecosystem like Lutron where they control the design, manufacturing, and testing of all software and hardware to work perfectly together. That's just a simple fact.

*Customer support:* Lutron has a ~60 year track record of exceptional customer and technical support: You want to speak to an actual engineer on the phone? Sure, no problem. Even their level one tech support people know more about their products than just about any other company I've dealt with. This is especially impressive for a company with thousands of employees. They will send you any part or product you need right away if there's even a question about whether or not it's functioning correctly. No RMA forms to fill out, no waiting to receive the product back, no credit card hold, etc.....

*Ease of use:* When you buy a Lutron product, you will not be a beta tester. The product will have already been thoroughly tested and should function as expected. Just plug and play, no research or forums needed. There won't be any 700 series Z-Wave style "fun" that takes months of updates to resolve.

*Quality:* You get high quality construction and 100% consistent finish with every product. This is a pretty basic standard that many companies fail to meet.

*Picos, Picos, Picos:* There is no other product even close to the size, versatility, reliability, and battery life. There's 30+ models to choice from with all the engraving and customizable options you could ever want. You can get them with a nightlight, control Sonos, shades, lights, appliances, etc. Use them on a tabletop, or add them to the an existing switch gang without cutting any holes, or stick them on any surface, move them around as often as you want. All with 10 years battery life and the same reliability as the rest of the system.

This is a benefit of designing a system with hub and spoke topography that can use both 1-way and 2-way RF devices.

*User interaction:* The switches and keypads are designed with attention to all the important details, like tactile feel. The Maestro style button has the best tactile feel of any switch I've tried. The SeeTouch keypads also have such a nice feeling when pressing the buttons with great tactile feedback. The buttons are rounded so it's easy to press the button you want and the engraving is angled upwards so it's much easier to read than an engraved flat button. You can also have spacing in between the buttons for areas were you need to press it quickly while you're walking. Little details like that make the all the difference compared to other options.

*Custom engraving and backlight: *There is nothing easier to use then keypads with engraved and backlit buttons, period. No previous knowledge of the system is required, no flipping the whole bank of switches trying to find the light you want. You see a button with the light icon and "Kitchen", you know exactly what you're turning on.

I've seen so many videos of people showing off their HA systems with all these banks of switches and to trigger a scene/action you have to triple tap the top or bottom of one of these switches (that all look the same) while touching the top of your head and standing on one leg at the same time. That's great if you live alone or want to take the time to train your family, but don't try to tell me it's just as easy as pressing a single button with a clear backlit label.

Not to mention how much easier it is to use a backlit keypad at night.

The TableTop keypads are another super useful and unique product. I have one by each bed, and also in the living room and theater to control the lights, shades, and scenes. They're engraved and backlit as well along with battery or plug in power. Very flexible.

*Eliminate wall ache: *Using keypads, you can eliminate large banks of switches everywhere. I plan to use hybrid keypads everywhere there would be more than one switch and place the excess dimmers/switches in a network room. That's not for everyone of course, but it's perfect for me. Even a simple room like a bedroom would need a 4-gang of switches: Lights, lamps, fan, shades. So I can eliminate three of those. It's even more useful for rooms like kitchens that have multiple layers of lights.

*Options:* Over 40 color options for switches/outlets/wall-plates. No other company offering Z-Wave or the like can even come close to that.

*Interoperability:* Lutron has published a very clear and easy to implement protocol so even though it's a closed system, it can be integrated with virtually any HA controller. Phantom keypads are a nice feature as well.

*Consistency in the little details:* All the shades raise and lower at the same speeds, large lighting events don't popcorn.

*Shades:* The Lutron shades are the quietest and have the best battery life on the market. They've also been the most reliable in my experience. The batteries last 3-5 years and the warranty is up to 7 years. They integrate perfectly with the rest of the lutron controls and system. No third party hub needed.

I could go on and on, but since I've already made this post way to long, I'll stop.

So yea, you're paying a lot more, but you're getting a lot more options, reliability, ease of use, aesthetics and more. It will not be worth it to everyone, but saying that there's no value in it is just ignorant.


----------



## ksalno

Totally agree. As someone who started 20 years ago with an X-10 system, I went with Radio RA 2 in 2004 and have never looked back. I am up two a dual repeater system with about 120 devices controlled including lights, shades, and HVAC. I’m sure I’m only exploiting half of what I could be doing (I need to look into those Pico remotes). Whenever I look at any other home automation system, the first question I ask is will it work with Lutron? If not, I keep going.


----------



## schalliol

I've continued having difficulty with RR2 and wireless networks via Parallels on Macs. I've been successfully using RadioRA2 on Macs ever since it came out, but wireless never quite works well. I usually choose the Bridge option, and that works well. Now I see they offer the "Network Conditioner" feature, and I'm wondering if anyone has had success making WiFi work reliably via Parallels. Thanks for any ideas!


----------



## SJHT

What home automation systems are folks with RadioRA2 using?


----------



## markrubin

SJHT said:


> What home automation systems are folks with RadioRA2 using?


RTI here: Lutron shades and lighting


----------



## rapamatic

schalliol said:


> I've continued having difficulty with RR2 and wireless networks via Parallels on Macs. I've been successfully using RadioRA2 on Macs ever since it came out, but wireless never quite works well. I usually choose the Bridge option, and that works well. Now I see they offer the "Network Conditioner" feature, and I'm wondering if anyone has had success making WiFi work reliably via Parallels. Thanks for any ideas!


I’ve given up on WiFi with Mac virtualization. Plugging in to Ethernet works great for me with Fusion (which is now free). That might be worth a try. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rapamatic

SJHT said:


> What home automation systems are folks with RadioRA2 using?


I use Indigo - been working great for years. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FlyingDiver

rapamatic said:


> I use Indigo - been working great for years.


Ditto.


----------



## schalliol

RTI for sure. I can help if someone needs these systems.


----------



## progprog

schalliol said:


> RTI for sure. I can help if someone needs these systems.


How can I contact you about that?


----------



## DMILANI

I used to have RTI as well, but switched to Control4 about 2 years ago.


----------



## schalliol

progprog said:


> How can I contact you about that?


I sent you a message. I much prefer RTI to C4 for sure!


----------



## schalliol

Question. If I want to use an electronic switch for a 15 A receptacle, what's the best way? I know I can use a Soft Switch or Appliance Module, but I can't think of how to use a conventional switch button instead of a keypad or pico without an automation controller. Ideas?


----------



## DMILANI

What do you mean by electronic switch, a RadioRA 2 wall switch?


----------



## schalliol

Yes. Just a toggle single button switch. It’s too bad there’s no 15 A out of the box wall switch, just 8 A. I think it would have to go to a relay or something.


----------



## progprog

DMILANI said:


> I used to have RTI as well, but switched to Control4 about 2 years ago.


It'd be really helpful if you have a minute to elaborate and explain why you switched. Did C4 offer something RTI didn't? Did you have problems with RTI?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## schalliol

I’ll follow-up to the email. I just don’t like the interfaces for C4, and they made it hard for me to get in as a small-time group. Not very accessible/friendly. There’s a great RTI community.


----------



## Mathelo

I'm finally getting around to starting my Radio RA2 install.

I will be using a hybrid keypad for scenes with several dimmers for multiple light circuits but I would rather not use the keypad as the primary dimmer for the room when first entering or leaving.

The closest thing I could find is one of the Pico remotes (PJ2-2B) but apparently their primary on button cannot be set to anything other than 100%. As I don't set lights to 100% in any scene, this doesn't really work for me. 

There is the 3-Button with raise/lower (PJN-3BRL) where the center button can be used for a preset but that little button for a preset scene is no better than the small buttons on a keypad.

There is the Pico 4 button scene remote (PJ2-4B) but it is 4 buttons. I suppose it could be a compromise but it still provide choices. The idea is to eliminate choices when entering the room. Just one button for on and off but still a scene.

I was hoping that Lutron had a paddle dimmer that could be used in this manner but I'm not seeing it.

Any ideas?

Thanks and Happy Holidays!

Louis


----------



## schalliol

You can make any pico button do anything. Convention states you should have the bottom one off, and the engraving will say that if it’s not a custom Pico, but you can set what you like. Try it in the software and see what works for you.


----------



## Mathelo

schalliol said:


> You can make any pico button do anything. Convention states you should have the bottom one off, and the engraving will say that if it’s not a custom Pico, but you can set what you like. Try it in the software and see what works for you.


So with the PJ2-2B or PJN-3BRL I can program the top button to a scene with less than 100% on for each linked dimmer, correct? That is what I'm looking for.

Louis


----------



## schalliol

Yes. That has been my experience. I would double check the software to make sure they haven’t made a change however.


----------



## Mathelo

When buying Radio RA2 components, is it best to buy from spiwrx directly or through the storefront, Hank's Electrical Supply? I don't see some of the components I need listed or even discoverable on the website.


----------



## rapamatic

Mathelo said:


> When buying Radio RA2 components, is it best to buy from spiwrx directly or through the storefront, Hank's Electrical Supply? I don't see some of the components I need listed or even discoverable on the website.


It doesn’t really matter - I do both. If you can’t find a part in the online store Paul can just put together a quote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mathelo

rapamatic said:


> It doesn’t really matter - I do both. If you can’t find a part in the online store Paul can just put together a quote.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And is this the best place to contact Paul (@spiwrx ) or is there a more direct way?


----------



## uscpsycho

I have a couple of questions.

With the wireless Powr Saver ceiling vacancy sensor, what is the maximum delay that you can program with the Inclusive software? And is there any harm in painting the plastic case of the sensor black? Does that in any way impair the operation of the PIR motion sensor?

On the Pico remote with the nightlight, how does that work? Is the button on the Pico always illuminated?

TIA


----------



## Mathelo

Does anyone here have experience with the Lutron Hi-lume Premier 0.1% Constant Voltage Driver (L3D0)?


https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369883.pdf



I am considering this as a replacement for the LED driver that was sold to me with a Pure Edge LED recessed lighting (LED tape). It works okay but there is some flicker that I'd like to get rid of. It isn't always present. I think it is a result of fluctuation in the AC. I also see this flicker in some 25w decorative G25 bulbs so there is something in the AC, noise or power fluctuation. Even though the LED driver (PSB-100W-ELV-24VDC-IW) was expensive ($260) relative to the Hi-lume, I'm not convinced of its quality. I think I over paid but these things are "black boxes." Using RRD-6NA dimmer.

Also, this driver appears to require a special 3-wire dimmer (RRD-F6AN-DV) in a Radio RA2 system. I was planning on just getting the RRD-PRO since it seems to cover most if not all use cases, but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

Thanks!

Louis


----------



## Mathelo

There are now a number of thermostats available for controlling radiant floor heat that are Wi-Fi enabled. I'm considering the Schluter®-DITRA-HEAT-E-RT Schluter®-DITRA-HEAT-E-RT | Floor Warming | schluter.com. As this is Wi-Fi enabled, is there a way to include it in a Radio RA2 system?

Thanks!

Louis


----------



## schalliol

Unless something changed, you can only use the Lutron thermostats to be able to have different Time Clock modes affect thermostat (e.g. press Away on keypad and the temp falls in line). Further, you can’t use the 3 part thermostat decora size displays with non-Lutron Thermostats. You can use a thermostat from integration partners and still use the Lutron app to change temps, but that’s all you get. If the thermostat isn’t on that list it won’t integrate with the app. In short, I’d recommend going Lutron if you aren’t going to use a third-party control system. It’s really frustrating that Lutron doesn’t make it clear that you can’t use time-clock mode with partner thermostats.

While I use RTI control, I do hope Lutron releases a revised RR Main Repeater that integrates the Connect Bridge and offers increased capabilities for integrations.


----------



## thebland

*Vacancy Sensor Programming Question*

I have not updated my software in some time..

Does Lutron 2.9 allow for programming Vacancy / motions to be active at certain times of the day (to trip or turn ogg lights) or are they always functioning throughout 24 hours (no deactivating at certain times on a custom time schedule)?

Thanks!!


----------



## SJHT

thebland said:


> *Vacancy Sensor Programming Question*
> 
> I have not updated my software in some time..
> 
> Does Lutron 2.9 allow for programming Vacancy / motions to be active at certain times of the day (to trip or turn ogg lights) or are they always functioning throughout 24 hours (no deactivating at certain times on a custom time schedule)?
> 
> Thanks!!


Assume you mean 12.9? I looked and could not find anyway to do that. Just items ON/OFF associated with the occupancy sensor. SJ


----------



## thebland

SJHT said:


> Assume you mean 12.9? I looked and could not find anyway to do that. Just items ON/OFF associated with the occupancy sensor. SJ


OK. Nice thought. Thanks for answering... Much appreciated!


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> *Vacancy Sensor Programming Question*
> 
> 
> Does Lutron 2.9 allow for programming Vacancy / motions to be active at certain times of the day (to trip or turn ogg lights) or are they always functioning throughout 24 hours (no deactivating at certain times on a custom time schedule)?



You can turn on or off motion sensors with time clock events. See my screenshot. This has been a feature as far back as I can remember.


----------



## SJHT

Wow, Thanks for showing us how to do that! SJ


----------



## Mathelo

I've started my switchover to Lutron Radio RA2. Very happy with the one room I've done so far.

I have 3 other rooms setup with Lightolier MultiSet setup some 15 years ago that I now want to upgrade and switch over to Radio RA2. These rooms are setup with keypads at each room entrance. The kitchen actually has 3 keypads. Would you do the same with Radio RA2 or one keypad with Picos for secondary locations?

Thanks!

Louis


----------



## duckymomo

Mathelo said:


> I've started my switchover to Lutron Radio RA2. Very happy with the one room I've done so far.
> 
> I have 3 other rooms setup with Lightolier MultiSet setup some 15 years ago that I now want to upgrade and switch over to Radio RA2. These rooms are setup with keypads at each room entrance. The kitchen actually has 3 keypads. Would you do the same with Radio RA2 or one keypad with Picos for secondary locations?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Louis


I'd do RA2 keypads all day and twice on Sunday. Backlit buttons with a much nicer tactile feel than the Picos. Also, you get way more programming options.


----------



## socalsharky

I'm having issues with one of my RA2 occupancy sensors. It is in our Master BR closet and is set for 30 seconds. The first time you walk in the closet, it turns on the light very rapidly, almost every time. However, upon a second entry 3 to 4 minutes later, it takes 5-10 seconds to trigger. I have checked the batteries, and also run the sensor test where the red light comes on when it detects motion. All appears to be fine. But the delay behavior happens very frequently. Is the sensor defective, or is this a known issue? The sensor is relatively close to my main repeater, and sensors that are much farther away do not exhibit this behavior.


----------



## spiwrx

socalsharky said:


> I'm having issues with one of my RA2 occupancy sensors. It is in our Master BR closet and is set for 30 seconds. The first time you walk in the closet, it turns on the light very rapidly, almost every time. However, upon a second entry 3 to 4 minutes later, it takes 5-10 seconds to trigger. I have checked the batteries, and also run the sensor test where the red light comes on when it detects motion. All appears to be fine. But the delay behavior happens very frequently. Is the sensor defective, or is this a known issue? The sensor is relatively close to my main repeater, and sensors that are much farther away do not exhibit this behavior.


There are a couple of things that could be happening. It should be almost instant. My closet light also has a delay/lag in the LED driver that is sometimes better or worse. These sensors (& most others) are mainly triggered on heat motion. The temperature difference is likely greater and easier to "see" you on an initial entry. If you re-enter perhaps the temperature difference isn't so great and it's harder to see you, I think this would have to be extreme to be the issue but worth mentioning. Also it's "view" while the closet is open may effect it's response in the short term for similar reasons. Other sources of heating or cooling near the sensor could effect it adversely as well, should be at least 4ft from sources of heating/cooling not limited to your HVAC registers, also significant heat from incandescent lamps or other heat producers. Should be mounted away from other RF sensors & devices including WIFI products. It could be a range issue if you are near or beyond the limits of RF range or have significant obstacles. Lastly it could be just a bad or worn battery. Sensors are tricky and you can try masking part of the sensor window with electrical tape or something to partially block it to see if you can get better responses. 
Another though is you could play with the fade rate if it's on a dimmer. As in my case the LED driver lag and dimmer fade rate could provide "perfect storm" so to speak, albeit occasional. Another thing to consider that goes along with range is a 2 main repeater system may have some additional lag if poorly designed , programmed and/or laid out.


----------



## DarrenGM

I have a question on wiring a RA2 Fan (LUT-RRD-2ANF). In other parts of my house I have installed a dimmer and switch which have separate switches/controls (2 gang box). In my basement which I'm finishing, they wired the fan with a light switch (white, black, red and ground) at the fan location and not separate 14/2 wires. I want to add a fan and have separate switches (dimmer and fan control on ra2). Do I have to run a new 14/2 wire or can I use the white/black/red/ground and come off this at the box and wire at the fan separate. I have not purchased a fan yet in case fan type matters. Goal- separate light/dimmer from fan control using current wires (black/white/red/ground). Any thoughts before I run another wire which I don't want to do! lol


----------



## FlyingDiver

You can install the switch and the dimmer together and share the neutral line to the fixture.


----------



## DarrenGM

Thanks for the reply FlyingDiver. So having a double gang box and having the dimmer use the red/white/ground and the fan use the same white wire and also the red (with ground) to control the fan. Thanks...will help not having to run an additional wire.


----------



## FlyingDiver

No, dimmer would use black/white/ground, fan would use red/white/ground. Or vice versa.


----------



## socalsharky

What @FlyingDiver said. Like this, although the Lutron switches require neutrals as well, which are not shown. You would simply have jumpers going from the neutral bundle in the switch box to both of the switches.


----------



## DarrenGM

Thank you @socalsharky* and @FlyingDiver !!*


----------



## Mathelo

*How to implement tunable white with RadioRA 2*
I'm looking to install about 65' of LED light strip in a valence. The light strip would include both 2700K and 4000K LEDs that are on separate channels. The light is "tuned" to a specific Kelvin by mixing the intensity of the 2 strips.

A primitive approach to setting this up is to put each on completely separate dimmers but I don't see this working very well. Seems to me that getting the intensity right for any given Kelvin (or vise versa) would be a complete nightmare. Also, Lutron doesn't recommend it. I also want to utilize the timeclock in Essentials to adjust the Kelvin throughout the day while keeping the intensity constant (although I can see an argument for also adjusting the intensity with the time of day but I'll save that decision for later).

Based on my reading of Lutron Application Note #579 https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocu...ary/048579.pdf it seems the only approach that is supported with a Radio RA2 system is using a 0-10V control type as shown in the compatibility matrix table on page 18 and illustrated on page 10-11 of the application note. Am I interpreting this correctly? Is there anyway to get any of the other options that seem better to work in a Radio RA2 system?

Thanks!
Louis


----------



## thebland

*ODD ISSUE - Some rooms in App do not match software *

I have a Lutron Radio Ra2 Inclusive system using two main repeaters.

However, within the software I have a couple rooms where a room and it’s Lutron switches that don’t match the Lutron app.

I have a couple photos here of the Lutron software showing the Butler’s pantry with four lights and the app only showing two lights. The two missing lights are actually in another room. I have a second room that in the software shows 8 lights but in the App I only see three - and can’t find the others. Latest software.

Any ideas???


----------



## Neurorad

What other device locations do you have in the Butler's Pantry, other than 'Bar', in the Lutron PC software? Image is cut off, can't see.

Perhaps, the Lutron PC sw is showing the device locations (switches, keypads, picos), and the Lutron app is showing the load locations?

I never use the app, personally. Not too familiar with it. Forced to use it in recent months, to add Sonos Picos.


----------



## markrubin

markrubin said:


> Lutron cellular shade battery issue
> I have one cellular shade that is going through new batteries every few weeks: Other cellular shades in same house don’t show this issue:I have followed all Lutron guidelines
> Lutron says to fill out ’dead battery questionnaire’
> anyone see this? Shade is over 5 years old so out of warranty


thought I would share my solution;
I noticed the battery issue got much worse during cold weather.
I changed out the alkaline batteries for rechargeable batteries (which Lutron says not to do) and this has greatly improved the issue; the rechargeable batteries are lasting 2-3 months before needing a charge


----------



## SJHT

Finally completed the conversion of our entire home from zwave to Lutron RA2 (with the exception of locks). My gosh, this stuff is so fast, flexible, and reliable. Should have done this years ago.... SJ


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> thought I would share my solution;
> I noticed the battery issue got much worse during cold weather.
> I changed out the alkaline batteries for rechargeable batteries (which Lutron says not to do) and this has greatly improved the issue; the rechargeable batteries are lasting 2-3 months before needing a charge


I think someone else in this thread or maybe just in my email started burning through shade batteries and it was some 3rd party software they were using polling the shades too often. 
Not sure if you are using something that may do this, but I though I would through it out there. I suppose the same could be true for sensors if you are polling these and/or Picos if using them for triggers.


----------



## markrubin

spiwrx said:


> I think someone else in this thread or maybe just in my email started burning through shade batteries and it was some 3rd party software they were using polling the shades too often.
> Not sure if you are using something that may do this, but I though I would through it out there. I suppose the same could be true for sensors if you are polling these and/or Picos if using them for triggers.


I am using RTI XP8s processor/RTI Homeworks driver QS.125: there are some Picos in there too
the Lutron driver shows very little CPU usage: and I have many other Lutron shades in the system nearby that work fine


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *ODD ISSUE - Some rooms in App do not match software *
> 
> I have a Lutron Radio Ra2 Inclusive system using two main repeaters.
> 
> However, within the software I have a couple rooms where a room and it’s Lutron switches that don’t match the Lutron app.
> 
> I have a couple photos here of the Lutron software showing the Butler’s pantry with four lights and the app only showing two lights. The two missing lights are actually in another room. I have a second room that in the software shows 8 lights but in the App I only see three - and can’t find the others. Latest software.
> 
> Any ideas???


You pictures don't show us what we would need to see. But you can change the "Zone Location" by editing the device in the software. 
This is helpful when used correctly. For Example if I'm hiding banks of dimmers in a closet, I still want them to show up in the APP in the correct room (zone location). 
This can be a little confusing to keep track of, but here is my example. 
a) In this Example my "Bank 2" (_even though it only 1 dimmer_) is physically located in the Entry
b) Device Location is where it physically exists in the room (Entry)
c) The "Zone Location" places it in a different room called "California Room" and this is where you might want to expect to find it in the app. _(Also notice this room listed as such under this repeater towards the bottom of the room list)
FWIW "California Room" is a fancy word for an outdoor living space, or so I'm told, and why we might find the landscape lights there. _


----------



## spiwrx

Mathelo said:


> *How to implement tunable white with RadioRA 2*
> I'm looking to install about 65' of LED light strip in a valence. The light strip would include both 2700K and 4000K LEDs that are on separate channels. The light is "tuned" to a specific Kelvin by mixing the intensity of the 2 strips.
> 
> A primitive approach to setting this up is to put each on completely separate dimmers but I don't see this working very well. Seems to me that getting the intensity right for any given Kelvin (or vise versa) would be a complete nightmare. Also, Lutron doesn't recommend it. I also want to utilize the timeclock in Essentials to adjust the Kelvin throughout the day while keeping the intensity constant (although I can see an argument for also adjusting the intensity with the time of day but I'll save that decision for later).
> 
> Based on my reading of Lutron Application Note #579 https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocu...ary/048579.pdf it seems the only approach that is supported with a Radio RA2 system is using a 0-10V control type as shown in the compatibility matrix table on page 18 and illustrated on page 10-11 of the application note. Am I interpreting this correctly? Is there anyway to get any of the other options that seem better to work in a Radio RA2 system?
> 
> Thanks!
> Louis


Sorry for a late reply, I've been super busy at work.....

Your best option here is to find a tunable white driver that works white separate controls for the color and intensity. Such products exist. I think you may only find them with 0-10v control and then you will need 2x LMJ-5T-DV-B. I would set a slow fade (hours) and have it change color to match the sun position. Then the other LMJ to cover intensity as necessary. Still going to be some trial and error to get it right.

Look out at wiring diagrams before you order, some of the tunable product is made for 2 stips and other for 3 wire with both colors on 1 strip.

Not endorsing them, but in quick search I found:
MU050S150BQI211


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> I am using RTI XP8s processor/RTI Homeworks driver QS.125: there are some Picos in there too
> the Lutron driver shows very little CPU usage: and I have many other Lutron shades in the system nearby that work fine


What I meant was he was using something like HomeSeer or Indigo to poll his shades for it's position too frequently causing a lot of unecessary communication with the shade. Might have been better to pick up on a trigger like a button press or schedule event instead of polling but i think he scaled is polling rate way back as a compromise. Being older shade it may just be on it's way out. I would call them on warranty any way.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> You pictures don't show us what we would need to see. But you can change the "Zone Location" by editing the device in the software.
> This is helpful when used correctly. For Example if I'm hiding banks of dimmers in a closet, I still want them to show up in the APP in the correct room (zone location).
> This can be a little confusing to keep track of, but here is my example.
> a) In this Example my "Bank 2" (_even though it only 1 dimmer_) is physically located in the Entry
> b) Device Location is where it physically exists in the room (Entry)
> c) The "Zone Location" places it in a different room called "California Room" and this is where you might want to expect to find it in the app. _(Also notice this room listed as such under this repeater towards the bottom of the room list)
> FWIW "California Room" is a fancy word for an outdoor living space, or so I'm told, and why we might find the landscape lights there. _
> 
> View attachment 3115642


Got it! That answers it. I'm going to move things around to use your recommendation. Thanks!


----------



## cyrus494

spiwrx said:


> I think someone else in this thread or maybe just in my email started burning through shade batteries and it was some 3rd party software they were using polling the shades too often.
> Not sure if you are using something that may do this, but I though I would through it out there. I suppose the same could be true for sensors if you are polling these and/or Picos if using them for triggers.


This was me. When I e-mailed lutron, they said that using the default "lutron/integration" account affected shade battery life. So they recommended setting up another account.


----------



## cyrus494

Question: Is there an easy way to add a pico remote to a RadioRa2 (not Select) system without having to load up the programming software?


----------



## dragonian

On the topic of shades.. Where do I start? I'm well versed in RadioRA 2 in my current house, but working on plans to build a new house.
I'm guessing that I want to look into shade options for the new house, but am moderately intimidated by the options, and likely the costs. I'm honestly not a fan of window coverings [at all], but my wife is, and i can likely be convinced of the need if they are on timeclocks. 

Any suggestions where to start? Are the radio ra2 options all battery powered, or do I need to hardwire anything?
I will likely add on as I figure out where the biggest needs are; but want to ensure to wire everything that will need it in advance

@spiwrx I notice your tag line including shades. I'm assuming that is something that I can work with you on also.


----------



## DMILANI

I got my shades from spiwrx (I’m addition to all my other Radio RA2 stuff). Very good pricing and support.


----------



## FlyingDiver

It's preferable to hardwire power for the shades, if possible. Changing batteries is a pain. I think my contractor used 14/2 or 14/4 stranded (same as speaker wire). Lutron makes a power module which will power 10-20 shades each, depending on the size. There's some documentation on their website which has the power calcs, I think.


----------



## thebland

Always hardwire. We just built a home and did a full Radio Ra2 system for it with shades, lights and thermostats. (2 main repeaters).







We started just shades but then things look a little dull so we added drapes.


----------



## SJHT

We just completed changing everything in our house from Zwave to Radio RA2. Stuff is bullet proof. Not done engraving as we are deciding on things. More pics of good engraving and general feedback would be helpful from anyone willing to share. Likely mostly scenes as most lights have individual controls.


----------



## Les Auber

How long do the batteries typically last on the shades?


----------



## thebland

*TIMECLOCK Mode Question?*

I created an emulator phantom keypad for Timeclock activation buttons for Vacation mode. However, unlike actual Lutron keypads, the phantom ones do not have a drop down to select 'Timeclock' mode. 

I want to create these buttons to be activated by my automation system for random lighting while away.

[email protected]


----------



## rapamatic

thebland said:


> *TIMECLOCK Mode Question?*
> 
> I created an emulator phantom keypad for Timeclock activation buttons for Vacation mode. However, unlike actual Lutron keypads, the phantom ones do not have a drop down to select 'Timeclock' mode.
> 
> I want to create these buttons to be activated by my automation system for random lighting while away.
> 
> [email protected]


As far as I know, the only way to do this is to add a keypad in the design software and then not activate it. Then you can program whatever you want on the buttons. Even though the keypad isn't activated, it will still show up in the iOS app and will be accessible via third party controls. I suggest doing this with a tabletop keypad, since it will give you the most buttons for only one device (against your 100/200 devices).


----------



## thebland

rapamatic said:


> As far as I know, the only way to do this is to add a keypad in the design software and then not activate it. Then you can program whatever you want on the buttons. Even though the keypad isn't activated, it will still show up in the iOS app and will be accessible via third party controls. I suggest doing this with a tabletop keypad, since it will give you the most buttons for only one device (against your 100/200 devices).


That makes sense. Too bad can't do through phantom keypad but I get it. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *TIMECLOCK Mode Question?*
> 
> I created an emulator phantom keypad for Timeclock activation buttons for Vacation mode. However, unlike actual Lutron keypads, the phantom ones do not have a drop down to select 'Timeclock' mode.
> 
> I want to create these buttons to be activated by my automation system for random lighting while away.
> 
> [email protected]



You can set the phantom buttons on the Main Repeater to a Timeclock mode, maybe this is an "inclusive" feature though, I cannot check. Likewise the work-around is as suggested, create a "virtual keypad" or if you have a VCRX, perhaps you are not using all of those buttons either.


----------



## spiwrx

Les Auber said:


> How long do the batteries typically last on the shades?


Sorry for a late reply, but shade batteries are estimated to be 3-5yrs but depends on several factors, including the shade size, fabric weight, & frequency of use. 
When you get a shade proposal or quote from a authorized Lutron shade partner it will list an estimated battery life specific to your shades and this is typically based on 2 cycles a day (2 cycles = open & close twice a day). I have an 8ft wide x 40" high shade without battery boost and it only cycles once a day. I'm at about 6yrs on my first set of batteries and still going strong. 
Battery Boost is a feature available on wider shades that adds more batteries to extend battery life. It's cost prohibitive though, as you get about 50% more life for twice as many batteries so I only recommend it if the shade is difficult to get to.


----------



## Les Auber

spiwrx said:


> Sorry for a late reply, but shade batteries are estimated to be 3-5yrs but depends on several factors, including the shade size, fabric weight, & frequency of use.
> When you get a shade proposal or quote from a authorized Lutron shade partner it will list an estimated battery life specific to your shades and this is typically based on 2 cycles a day (2 cycles = open & close twice a day). I have an 8ft wide x 40" high shade without battery boost and it only cycles once a day. I'm at about 6yrs on my first set of batteries and still going strong.
> Battery Boost is a feature available on wider shades that adds more batteries to extend battery life. It's cost prohibitive though, as you get about 50% more life for twice as many batteries so I only recommend it if the shade is difficult to get to.


Thanks, sounds like batteries will do fine for me w/o hard-wiring. Now just need to get ambitious enough to do it.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> You can set the phantom buttons on the Main Repeater to a Timeclock mode, maybe this is an "inclusive" feature though, I cannot check. Likewise the work-around is as suggested, create a "virtual keypad" or if you have a VCRX, perhaps you are not using all of those buttons either.
> View attachment 3133025


I have Inclusive. And I do have a visor control, too. Good info. I didn’t realize the Main Repeater had phantom buttons. I’ll look at that.

*But I need some advice...*

I programmed two vacation timeclocks with various lights. I made two vacation timeclocks. Each has four or five lamps that come on. The toggle is for vacation timeclocks.

When I engaged my alarm tonight (I put a command to toggle the ‘Vacation Mode’ button), none of the ‘vacation mode’ lights came on when I looked at my Lutron app.I could see the Vacation Timeclock button I programmed was toggled. But no lights.

If I did this correctly, these lights should just come as I set the alarm well after the start time of these Vacation timeclocks (sunset and sunset plus 2 hours). And as I mentioned, the alarm did triggerthe ‘Vacation Mode’ button.

Maybe I just don’t understand how to program these events (vacation) but any advice?

I did set the T-Stats to go to a specified temp and they did - so I know the vacation mode was engaged. Just no lights. And, if I had 5 lights come on in a given vacation mode timeclock , do they all come on at once or randomly one at a time? Not sure how vacation mode works.

Thanks so much.


----------



## rapamatic

spiwrx said:


> You can set the phantom buttons on the Main Repeater to a Timeclock mode, maybe this is an "inclusive" feature though, I cannot check. Likewise the work-around is as suggested, create a "virtual keypad" or if you have a VCRX, perhaps you are not using all of those buttons either.
> View attachment 3133025


Maybe it is an inclusive feature -


thebland said:


> I have Inclusive. And I do have a visor control, too. Good info. I didn’t realize the Main Repeater had phantom buttons. I’ll look at that.
> 
> *But I need some advice...*
> 
> I programmed two vacation timeclocks with various lights. I made two vacation timeclocks. Each has four or five lamps that come on. The toggle is for vacation timeclocks.
> 
> When I engaged my alarm tonight (I put a command to toggle the ‘Vacation Mode’ button), none of the ‘vacation mode’ lights came on when I looked at my Lutron app.I could see the Vacation Timeclock button I programmed was toggled. But no lights.
> 
> If I did this correctly, these lights should just come as I set the alarm well after the start time of these Vacation timeclocks (sunset and sunset plus 2 hours). And as I mentioned, the alarm did triggerthe ‘Vacation Mode’ button.
> 
> Maybe I just don’t understand how to program these events (vacation) but any advice?
> 
> I did set the T-Stats to go to a specified temp and they did - so I know the vacation mode was engaged. Just no lights. And, if I had 5 lights come on in a given vacation mode timeclock , do they all come on at once or randomly one at a time? Not sure how vacation mode works.
> 
> Thanks so much.


A couple things could be going on here. First one, do you have "Catchup Events" turned on for your vacation mode? What that does is when you turn on the mode, it essentially runs all the timeclock events that would have happened that day if that mode had been on all day. In your example, if the lights were set to turn on at sunset with your vacation timeclock event, but you did not activate the vacation timeclock mode until after sunset, the lights would not turn on unless you had "Catchup Events" checked for that mode.










Then, make sure that the timeclock events you programmed are set for the proper timeclock mode. In the example below I have some light set to go on at sunset when the timeclock mode is away:


----------



## ksalno

We done some Lutron shades and like the integration and automation. Is there any device that can be used to add the same capabilities to draw drapes and works with Radio RA2?


----------



## FlyingDiver

ksalno said:


> We done some Lutron shades and like the integration and automation. Is there any device that can be used to add the same capabilities to draw drapes and works with Radio RA2?


Lutron has rails for draw type drapes that work with RRa2. I have a single sided draw drape covering an exterior (balcony) door in my bonus room.


----------



## thebland

rapamatic said:


> Maybe it is an inclusive feature -
> 
> A couple things could be going on here. First one, do you have "Catchup Events" turned on for your vacation mode? What that does is when you turn on the mode, it essentially runs all the timeclock events that would have happened that day if that mode had been on all day. In your example, if the lights were set to turn on at sunset with your vacation timeclock event, but you did not activate the vacation timeclock mode until after sunset, the lights would not turn on unless you had "Catchup Events" checked for that mode.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, make sure that the timeclock events you programmed are set for the proper timeclock mode. In the example below I have some light set to go on at sunset when the timeclock mode is away:


Great Info!

I will also program the 'Disarm' command for my Security Panel to toggle on 'Home' Mode. I assume Vacation mode will stay on at all times until toggled off... 

I have switched 'Vacation Mode' to 'catch up events'. Thanks so much. Makes sense now. 

I added a 'Home Time Clock Mode' button and Away Time Clock Mode' button in the Visor Control Phantom buttons. Now I can add them to various security arm / disarm commands. [email protected]@!!


----------



## thebland

*RE: Security Mode Question / How to send a Button release?*

If I make a Security phantom button (lights full on and some flashing), how do I turn this button off (deactivate flashing lights)?.

I programmed a phantom 'Security Mode' button that can be activated by my automation system that will flash and turn some lights on 100% in a fire, alarm, etc.

My question is In Lutron Ra2 software, it says in order to disengage Security Mode flashing lights, etc, you must send a 'Button Release Integration' command. How do you program such a command in Ra2?

(Or is it simply hitting the phantom button a second time to toggle it off)?

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

Honestly I haven't used the Security Button in years, I don't remember. I think I programmed a CCO on the VCRX wired to itself on the Alarm input so I could control it from a regular keypad. (Regular Keypads can't directly access security mode). I would assume using pahntom 98 or 99 or other phantom programmed to Security mode would toggle but I honestly don't remember, but that's how I read it.


----------



## spiwrx

Reports from the field say skip or discontinue use of 12.9, 12.10 is available and apparently stable. I don't know exact details but apparently 12.9 can get stuck in some loop related to telnet causing the system to lock up.


----------



## SJHT

Does upgrading just mean updating the repeater’s firmware and use that version of the software? My 12.9 has been very stable. Thanks. SJ


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Honestly I haven't used the Security Button in years, I don't remember. I think I programmed a CCO on the VCRX wired to itself on the Alarm input so I could control it from a regular keypad. (Regular Keypads can't directly access security mode). I would assume using pahntom 98 or 99 or other phantom programmed to Security mode would toggle but I honestly don't remember, but that's how I read it.


Thanks

I was curious about it. I did not wire the VCRX directly to my panel. I just made a phantom button on the Main Repeater. I'm going to do a test and have one light flash when phantom button is 'pressed'. Then, I'll see if I can toggle the phantom button and see if it goes off.


----------



## spiwrx

SJHT said:


> Does upgrading just mean updating the repeater’s firmware and use that version of the software? My 12.9 has been very stable. Thanks. SJ


As with most things, if it's not broke don't fix it. From the release notes I assume failed telnet logins may cause the the main repeater to lock up. But I'm just reading into the release notes, I don't have an inside track on this. Just one of my integrators had this happen so far.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Thanks
> 
> I was curious about it. I did not wire the VCRX directly to my panel. I just made a phantom button on the Main Repeater. I'm going to do a test and have one light flash when phantom button is 'pressed'. Then, I'll see if I can toggle the phantom button and see if it goes off.



If you look at some of the alarm integrations, they are just using a clean contact or switch from the alarm system wired to the VCRX to trigger security mode. In lieu of this we wired one of the outputs of the vcrx to it's own security input (full/flash) and make it a maintained closure in the VCRX settings, Then setup any other keypad button(s) in toggle/room mode to control it. I would take care in placing these buttons so they don't accidentally get triggered. I don't the the VCRX CCO's default to the "all off" scene, but you can add them if you want another way to shut this off.


----------



## SJHT

spiwrx said:


> As with most things, if it's not broke don't fix it. From the release notes I assume failed telnet logins may cause the the main repeater to lock up. But I'm just reading into the release notes, I don't have an inside track on this. Just one of my integrators had this happen so far.


Are Telnet logins when let’s say a control system interfaces with the repeater via IP? SJ


----------



## thebland

SJHT said:


> Are Telnet logins when let’s say a control system interfaces with the repeater via IP? SJ


I can’t speak to all control systems but my. Restrain Home interfaces by IP and there was no telnet login to program. Perhaps in traditional Crestron though. Home just finds it on the network and automatically interfaces.


----------



## SJHT

thebland said:


> I can’t speak to all control systems but my. Restrain Home interfaces by IP and there was no telnet login to program. Perhaps in traditional Crestron though. Home just finds it on the network and automatically interfaces.


Interesting. Maybe it is using the default id and pw, but I thought that id/pw was required to connect via IP.


----------



## FlyingDiver

IP connection requires a telnet login. So it's probably using the default username and password.


----------



## thebland

*2 separate Radio Ra2 systems in one house?*

Can you have 2 fully separate systems (2 separate Main repeaters, 2 connect bridges and associated some lights on one network)? Obviously, 2 separate programs... 

I'm taking the Lutron Inclusive course and have my own set up in my house but Lutron has sent me another system comprising of a Main repeater, connect bridge, motion and lamp sensors, etc for training purposes. I don't want to interfere with my current system which is on the same network while installing and training on another.

Thanks


----------



## smoothtlk

thebland said:


> *2 separate Radio Ra2 systems in one house?*
> 
> Can you have 2 fully separate systems (2 separate Main repeaters, 2 connect bridges and associated some lights on one network)? Obviously, 2 separate programs...
> 
> I'm taking the Lutron Inclusive course and have my own set up in my house but Lutron has sent me another system comprising of a Main repeater, connect bridge, motion and lamp sensors, etc for training purposes. I don't want to interfere with my current system which is on the same network while installing and training on another.
> 
> Thanks


Yes. Think of it like two apartments next to each other. No RF issue. That's what the device pairing is all about. Your automation controller ideally supports multiple Master Repeater connections. myServer supports unlimited number. And mixed hubs too. Is the connect bridge required? That's a little scary...that implies the integration is via Lutron cloud...not a good architecture. myServer connects locally to the Master Repeater that then connects RF to the devices. myServer integration with Caseta is via the Connect Bridge Pro, but that is local...so not sure re: cloud.


----------



## thebland

Anyone recall the L2 Inclusive course? I see you do a project at the end (day 3). What’s that all about? Easy peasy? Curious what all’s involved in the 3 days.
Thanks!!


----------



## spiwrx

How's everyone doing? Just went to another job and they were having intermittent time schedule issues. Long story short it was a range issue on a very large home. Useful in diagnosing this is the Tools>Diagnostics. If anything is in yellow or red you should consider an auxiliary repeater. This sometimes takes a few seconds, maybe longer depending on the number of devices, to poll them all but you should see them react live. 

Additionally, networking issue over my head realized that I could not add / activate a new device over WiFi. I don't recall having this problem in the past or maybe a location specific issue. Plugging into their switch solved the issue, but repeatedly over wifi I would start activation, and a few seconds later it would say activation cancelled and just loop like that. Maybe someone more network savvy can explain the issue but the simple fix was to plug in, but this meant I couldn't do walk around with my laptop to activate. 

On an unrelated note, I just switched my personal security cameras to Ubiquiti Protect and I couldn't be happier. The (APP) user interface is beautiful and simple enough, the video quality is great even though I didn't splurge on the 4k. Only problem are a lot of back ordered parts right now.


----------



## SJHT

What are folks using for HVAC Thermostats with RadioRA2? I noticed that the main one has been discontinued. Thanks. SJ


----------



## thebland

SJHT said:


> What are folks using for HVAC Thermostats with RadioRA2? I noticed that the main one has been discontinued. Thanks. SJ


I have 3 of them (TouchPro T-Stat). They will continue to be supported in the software but won't be manufactured anymore. Better likely to use one compatible with your automation system. I use a Lutron SEE Touch on the main floor but expensive but a great integration into a single gang box Nice looking. You could use the Lutron HVAC RF device and a small temp sensor but then you can only change temp in Lutron App.

I am replacing my Lutron Touch Pros with Crestron.


----------



## thebland

*Programming Question:*

If I have a Lutron fan switch installed in a new house design and I want to put a fan On/Off Toggle on a See Touch keypad... will the raise/lower buttons also control the fan speed? Or do raise / lower keypad buttons only do lights and shades? 

Thanks!

BTW - I got my Inclusive license !


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> *Programming Question:*
> 
> If I have a Lutron fan switch installed in a new house design and I want to put a fan On/Off Toggle on a See Touch keypad... will the raise/lower buttons also control the fan speed? Or do raise / lower keypad buttons only do lights and shades?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BTW - I got my Inclusive license !



The raise lower work on the last button pressed or with you have some options to dedicated the raise lower. Yes they will work on Fan Speed (2ANF). 
The Raise/Lower can be set to work on the last button pressed (default), last button double pressed, or program it to only raise / lower assigned lights. (Some of these may be inclusive features I cannot verify)


----------



## schalliol

For reference, raise/lower won’t work on Picos for 2ANF. It’s dumb, but it’s how it is. They actually used to have a Pico with raise/lower for fans in the guide, but they removed it.


----------



## rapamatic

It’s frustrating that the 2ANF is such a second class citizen. We can’t specify the default fan level, can’t control it via a pico…. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SJHT

rapamatic said:


> It’s frustrating that the 2ANF is such a second class citizen. We can’t specify the default fan level, can’t control it via a pico….
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree. My wife asked me to change the default fan speed for her study to 50% (from the default 75%). Thought, no problem, but was thinking of Pro light switches. Had to have the automation system trigger a 50% command whenever the device is turned on. Dumb….


----------



## Neurorad

I think Diva is the way to go, for ceiling fan control, in a RA2 system. Ordering 2 in the next week.


----------



## thebland

Neurorad said:


> I think Diva is the way to go, for ceiling fan control, in a RA2 system. Ordering 2 in the next week.


Are Diva fan & fan/light controls controllable in Ra2? Thanks.


----------



## SJHT

thebland said:


> Are Diva fan & fan/light controls controllable in Ra2? Thanks.


I looked up the model and it does not seem to be part of the system, but rather a standalone light/fan combo, but I’m certainly no expert and maybe looking at the wrong correct component….SJ


----------



## spiwrx

schalliol said:


> For reference, raise/lower won’t work on Picos for 2ANF. It’s dumb, but it’s how it is. They actually used to have a Pico with raise/lower for fans in the guide, but they removed it.


This is odd, I never had this come up yet personally. I even have a 3 button pico on my wife's side of the bed just for this, I just never tested the raise/lower I guess.
More odd to me is it does work from a regular or tabletop keypad (my side). I would say it's because it only has 4 levels and doesn't work on %'s like the dimmer, but why then does it work on the regular keypad??? #Lutron-ism

In lieu of this consider the 4 button pico. And program each button to desired levels. Full, Medium High, Medium, Low, Off. For me I lose the medium. I either want it really low to sleep or High, Medium-high. That and I like the look of the 4 button better. Now I'm going to have to change mine!!









Not to stir the pot, but I'll relucatantly mention there is a fan specific Pico for Caseta.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Are Diva fan & fan/light controls controllable in Ra2? Thanks.


No, the DIVA is stand alone and the newer Maestro LFQ is a nice Light/Fan stand alone option as well. Both non-RR2 compatible but Maestro matches the look of RR2. LFQ requires 3-wire to the fan, does not use a canopy module like it predecessor.


----------



## dragonian

Anyone have new recommendations for LED recessed lights /cans?
I've had very good luck in my current house with Cree/ Home Depot EcoSmart (where they have been the same) "retrofits" into cheap halo cans , but these have been installed for >10 years now.
Not sure if there are new recommendations, as I'm building a new house and about to buy a bunchLOTS of recessed lights.

Yes, I know about the LED compatibility tool, but it doesn't have recommendations for the best/ cost effective option.

I am planning on a new 100% RadioRA2 design (inclusive if it matters) for the new house.
I'd prefer to plan for RRD-6NDs as they are more cost effective, but if I had to use RRD-PRO, i guess it's not the end of the world.

Are the generic halo cans still the most flexible for options now & later? 
Should I stick with the Cree lights that have served me well?
Or if I'm planning on LED from the start are there cheaper "slimline" LED all in one housing?

I'm looking for reasonable dimming performance (doesn't have to be perfect), no hum, and reasonable cost per unit.


----------



## thebland

I built a new home recently. Used the Lutron tool. Didn’t seem to help. Bulbs a bit esoteric.

Ended up having electrician bring in a number of integrated LED cans (bulbs out of the question). Chose the one that dimmed best then outfitted the whole house. The more cans in a circuit, the better the dimming.

Use RRD Pros for sure. Better dimming. Newer. 

Use integrated cans rather than bulbs. Way better look.

Have had Ra2 for 2 years now with many Hybrid and Seetouch keypads. Awesome!! Stay away from their Thermostats - not able to use with 3rd party control. We hid many paddles in closets and laundry area. Hardly any wall acne. Slick keypads. I use many Lutron vacancy sensors. Very helpful.

Spend a lot of time on your design and lay out of keypads. Makes a huge difference and only get one shot. 

Goid luck!


----------



## schalliol

Eiko cans are what I buy and install. I agree going with PRO is the way to go if you can, and I’d avoid the hybrid dimmers if at all possible.


----------



## thebland

schalliol said:


> Eiko cans are what I buy and install. I agree going with PRO is the way to go if you can, and I’d avoid the hybrid dimmers if at all possible.


 Agreed. Hybrids are in my home due to design errors. Expensive but fortunately so far no failures.


----------



## SJHT

Agree with going with Pros especially for retrofits. We remodeled a lot of our house and who knows what brands are in the LED canned lighting, cabinet lightning, etc. Pro seems to handle anything (so far)… Holding off on engraving all of the 6 button controls until we figure out how we use things! We keep changing the functions. Lol.


----------



## dragonian

This is obviously new construction, so I don't need to worry about retrofit & hybrid keypads here. I will be putting the majority of the dimmers in closets/ etc. 
I know plenty about retrofit, as I have had RR2 in my current house since 2013.

I understand the PROs for fixtures that could have arbitrary lighting. I know they are newer, but wasn't sure that it really made a lot of difference with "complaint" lights. 
L2 Training encouraged them, but mostly for the "don't know what fixtures the customer will put there." Since I'm the designer and customer, I figure I can optimize accordingly. 
I also like the wall box power modules, but maybe that's not the best bet if the PRO works better,

I guess I need to do some experiments. 

Are there any specific manufacturers/model numbers that I should check out? Any notable to stay away from?


----------



## thebland

I used all Halo integrated cans in the entire home. Dim nicely, evenly. I have a 2 Main Repeater system including T-Stats, vacancies, VRCX, etc. Almost 80 devices. Works flawlessly. I just completed my L2 training and am doing our vacation cottage design right now. Good stuff!


----------



## spiwrx

dragonian said:


> ....I also like the wall box power modules, but maybe that's not the best bet if the PRO works better,....


The WPM is nice but 2 things to consider. 
1) If you need ELV (_aka reverse phase / trialing edge_) dimming you need to add an ($$) interface module, which is fairly large and unsighlty.
2) If a single zone fails you get to replace the entire thing (_$$$_)
I only recommend them when they have to be placed in sight, and you know you loads will work and likely won't change. 
If they have to be placed out in a room consider the Grafik Eye instead, than at least you get a few keypad buttons as well. 
Historically they used to be cheaper than 6 dimmers, but since the 6ND came out, this is no longer true. 
Obviously also space saving....
The 6ND has proven to be a very compatible dimmer but I think Lutron defaults to the PRO because it will handle almost anything. 
Additionally the LED lights have gotten better and we're seeing a lot know with "universal dimming" and seem to dim the same on forward or reverse. 




dragonian said:


> Are there any specific manufacturers/model numbers that I should check out? Any notable to stay away from?


One thing I always tell people is if you cannot easy find a "dimmer compatibility" sheet on it, you should probably stay away from it. 
Any respectable brand will test with Lutron, Leviton, and likely Cooper and Legrand dimmers. 
Additionally it should let you know what sort of dimming range to expect on forward/reverse phase dimming. 

Lutron does a lot of testing their selves. You can see some of their compatibility tools at www.luton.com/led some tips for this, start with vague filters, for this I only selected cooper/halo
Here is an example of a fairly common (Cooper)Halo 4" Retrofit RL460 series


----------



## Neurorad

Lutron integration with Josh.ai was announced. Appealing to me - I've generally avoided integration with Alexa (and google). I personally don't like being the product. Anyone control Lutron (and/or Sonos) with josh.ai? How hard is it to become a josh.ai dealer?









Josh.ai | Devices


Josh.ai | Voice Control - Artificial Intelligence - Smart Home Automation




www.josh.ai






https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/Josh.ai_Lutron_White_Paper.pdf


----------



## thebland

I am looking into Josh as well. Appears to be light years ahead of Alexa / Google.


----------



## spiwrx

Looks pretty good installed as well (josh.ai / HomeWorks)
It caught my eye I was hoping they finally had an RGB(w) control but it's just the Josh microphone. 
Please don't ask me about the plate yet. I think it just a prototype for now.


----------



## SJHT

We are having an issue with our subzero refrigerator. It's getting power, but the unit is not working and control board is not responding. Glad we have a second fridge in our home. The tech replaced the control board which didn't help (maybe it was bad). They also are getting a new display (and also will try another control board). Now comes the interesting part, the tech said there have been some problems with Lutron dimmers causing issues with subzero control boards. Like what? I can't believe it as they are on different circuits, etc. Anyone ever here of something like this? I'm sure there are lots of homes with those two!


----------



## ksalno

SJHT said:


> We are having an issue with our subzero refrigerator. It's getting power, but the unit is not working and control board is not responding. Glad we have a second fridge in our home. The tech replaced the control board which didn't help (maybe it was bad). They also are getting a new display (and also will try another control board). Now comes the interesting part, the tech said there have been some problems with Lutron dimmers causing issues with subzero control boards. Like what? I can't believe it as they are on different circuits, etc. Anyone ever here of something like this? I'm sure there are lots of homes with those two!


I guess the tech should know, but we have 3 sub-zero refrigerators - a full size side by side, an under counter wine cooler, and an under cabinet refrigerator. We also have a house full of RA2 dimmers. I don't have an exact count but over 100. Never had any issues with the control boards in any of them (the under counter frig may not have a control board but the other two definitely do).


----------



## smoothtlk

SJHT said:


> We are having an issue with our subzero refrigerator. It's getting power, but the unit is not working and control board is not responding. Glad we have a second fridge in our home. The tech replaced the control board which didn't help (maybe it was bad). They also are getting a new display (and also will try another control board). Now comes the interesting part, the tech said there have been some problems with Lutron dimmers causing issues with subzero control boards. Like what? I can't believe it as they are on different circuits, etc. Anyone ever here of something like this? I'm sure there are lots of homes with those two!


That makes no sense at all. The tech is redirecting because he / she misdiagnosed the control board.


----------



## SJHT

Yeah. Tomorrow he is coming with another control board,etc. Before he powers on the fridge I’m going to turn off our kitchen lighting circuit so this will remove any discussion. Goodness. Sorry for this rant but was crazy. Goodness. A 12K fridge and lighting is causing issues? I also opened up a support ticket with Lutron to see if they ever heard of this. lol. First world issues.


----------



## smoothtlk

SJHT said:


> Yeah. Tomorrow he is coming with another control board,etc. Before he powers on the fridge I’m going to turn off our kitchen lighting circuit so this will remove any discussion. Goodness. Sorry for this rant but was crazy. Goodness. A 12K fridge and lighting is causing issues? I also opened up a support ticket with Lutron to see if they ever heard of this. lol. First world issues.


And just to be sure, the refrigerator is not plugged into a circuit controlled by a switch / smart switch? It cannot be on a dimmer switch for sure.


----------



## SJHT

smoothtlk said:


> And just to be sure, the refrigerator is not plugged into a circuit controlled by a switch / smart switch? It cannot be on a dimmer switch for sure.


The only thing plugged into that circuit is the fridge. Nothing else. I also heard back from Lutron who have never heard of the issue. The fridge is getting power as the lights are on. But the display inside is not working (eg doesn’t show temp, etc). When you power on the fridge even the outside water dispenser opens and closes. Seems like the control system is not getting power or something. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## SJHT

Sorry to be off topic, but thought I would close this... Turns out the issue was with the fridge outside ice/water dispenser (the Subzero factory experts came up with this while on the phone with the tech). It was drawing too much power and therefore the control board was not working. As soon as the tech unplugged the dispenser from the control board, the unit fired right back up. Worth noting, he updated the fridge software and the latest version has some specific things to guard against dimmer interference. Not sure what they were, but just FYI. Also, I had turned off the power for all of the kitchen lights to remove any discussion of "Lutron Dimmers" causing the issue (as he replaced the control board again as well as the main interface)...


----------



## spiwrx

I know some of you follow on Reddit, I don't personally use it, but there are some rumors and evidence there hinting towards RR3. I don't want to stir the pot except to say there has been no public release of info, nor do any of their sales agents or representatives have any specific info to share in regards to any details, products, compatibility, etc.... I would assume it's inevitable but lets not jump to conclusions. The release of the connect bridge was big news at one point and it took the better part of a year to get them into your hands.


----------



## thebland

I read the thread. Seems like they may adopt the Ketra frequency and perhaps 2.4 gHz. Mesh network?

Hard to say if backwards compatible with RA2 or if the new software will work with RA2.

I wonder if this was to be a CEDIA announcement?

Good find.


----------



## spiwrx

Looks like it also the Bluetooth band....


----------



## ksalno

If I can upgrade by replacing main and aux repeaters and my programming carries over without change, I'd be okay with an upgrade. But if I have to rip and replace 150 devices, no way.


----------



## markrubin

I am still troubleshooting a QS shade where batteries do not last more than a few weeks: I did find a Lutron document that was very helpful: I reprogrammed so it was only controlled by a Pico control, and after a few weeks the battery light again came on even though I had not used the shade. The Lutron document explains the shades communicate with the main repeater a lot and this can contribute to battery problems: the batteries I removed still measure 1.5 volts DC: the shade is 5 years old and the wife wants me to replace it with a conventional shade.
So my last idea is to remove the shade from the RR program and have it operate standalone by a Pico control: now it does not have to communicate with the RR repeater....will see if that saves it.


----------



## SJHT

Looks like you could add another main repeater (if you don’t already have 2) and put them on another channel. Strange that their design makes this an issue. I lost the battle of getting Lutron shades with my wife who wanted Hunter Douglas. Maybe she knew something 😆 as the batteries last a long time and control/automation systems can integrate them.


----------



## thebland

Motion / Vacancy Sensor Question:

I have a few Lutron LRF2-OCR2B ceiling puck motion/vacancy sensors that I simply want to turn on the lights in a room when someone walks in the room but not to turn them off at all - or extend that maximum time to 2 hors or so. The puck limits you to a 30 minute grace period then will shut down after (up to) 30 minutes. I'd prefer a 2 hour grace period for some rooms. An way to do this? I can do it with my Crestron motions but is this possible with Lutron?

If I could have the motion simply turn on the lights (and leave them on), I could program the rollback for those switches to however long I'd like for them to stay on.

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

markrubin said:


> I am still troubleshooting a QS shade where batteries do not last more than a few weeks: I did find a Lutron document that was very helpful: I reprogrammed so it was only controlled by a Pico control, and after a few weeks the battery light again came on even though I had not used the shade. The Lutron document explains the shades communicate with the main repeater a lot and this can contribute to battery problems: the batteries I removed still measure 1.5 volts DC: the shade is 5 years old and the wife wants me to replace it with a conventional shade.
> So my last idea is to remove the shade from the RR program and have it operate standalone by a Pico control: now it does not have to communicate with the RR repeater....will see if that saves it.


Are you using any 3rd party integrations. There was an older post in this thread whereas someone was using a 3rd party software that was polling his shades too frequently causing them to communicate way more than necessary and in turn wear out batteries quickly. Just a thought. By polling them I mean it was requesting it's status (open, closed, 50%). I think they were able to change the frequency that this occured or change it to only poll on change.


----------



## markrubin

spiwrx said:


> Are you using any 3rd party integrations. There was an older post in this thread whereas someone was using a 3rd party software that was polling his shades too frequently causing them to communicate way more than necessary and in turn wear out batteries quickly. Just a thought. By polling them I mean it was requesting it's status (open, closed, 50%). I think they were able to change the frequency that this occured or change it to only poll on change.


interesting: I have an RTI control system using Lutron Homeworks QS.125 driver with an iPad page for 6 shades: it gives feedback for shade position, etc: the other 5 shades have good battery life and are used daily. 
I did delete the problematic shade from the programs and reset it to local mode controlled by a single Pico: so far so good.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Motion / Vacancy Sensor Question:
> 
> I have a few Lutron LRF2-OCR2B ceiling puck motion/vacancy sensors that I simply want to turn on the lights in a room when someone walks in the room but not to turn them off at all - or extend that maximum time to 2 hors or so. The puck limits you to a 30 minute grace period then will shut down after (up to) 30 minutes. I'd prefer a 2 hour grace period for some rooms. An way to do this? I can do it with my Crestron motions but is this possible with Lutron?
> 
> If I could have the motion simply turn on the lights (and leave them on), I could program the rollback for those switches to however long I'd like for them to stay on.
> Thanks!












You can program the "Occupied" and "Unoccupied" settings of the sensor independently to make it work with the roll back as you mentioned.
Click on the "unoccupied" and deselect the light(s) you don't want to turn off. Setup the "roll back" for 2hrs.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> View attachment 3184646
> 
> 
> You can program the "Occupied" and "Unoccupied" settings of the sensor independently to make it work with the roll back as you mentioned.
> Click on the "unoccupied" and deselect the light(s) you don't want to turn off. Setup the "roll back" for 2hrs.


Awesome. Thanks!

I assume if I have the one OC2BR added as a Vacancy sensor (and I want to use it as an occupancy sensor), I have to uninstall it and then add it as an occupancy sensor - or no?

Thanks so much.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Awesome. Thanks!
> 
> I assume if I have the one OC2BR added as a Vacancy sensor (and I want to use it as an occupancy sensor), I have to uninstall it and then add it as an occupancy sensor - or no?
> 
> Thanks so much.


Yes, if you programmed it this way. If you just used the check box in the software you can just un-check it. 
If you designed it as a Vaccancy,(VC) you have to delete it and add it back as a vacancy (OC). If so check your serial number in the activation tab before you delete it, copy it. Delete VC and add the OC part and paste the serial code back into the activation tab. Saves you from defaulting it and button activation.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Yes, if you programmed it this way. If you just used the check box in the software you can just un-check it.
> If you designed it as a Vaccancy,(VC) you have to delete it and add it back as a vacancy (OC). If so check your serial number in the activation tab before you delete it, copy it. Delete VC and add the OC part and paste the serial code back into the activation tab. Saves you from defaulting it and button activation.
> 
> View attachment 3184696


Great info. Thanks!


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> View attachment 3184646
> 
> 
> You can program the "Occupied" and "Unoccupied" settings of the sensor independently to make it work with the roll back as you mentioned.
> Click on the "unoccupied" and deselect the light(s) you don't want to turn off. Setup the "roll back" for 2hrs.


Hmm... One last thing, I cannot seem to bring up 'Roll Back' in the rooms with Occupancy sensors - only rooms without an Occupancy Sensors - 

So I can't set the 2 hour period to leave on... Or is there another way to get to 'Roll Back' for these switches for 2 hours in the rooms with Occupancy Sensors?? Thanks!


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Yes, if you programmed it this way. If you just used the check box in the software you can just un-check it.
> If you designed it as a Vacancy,(VC) you have to delete it and add it back as a vacancy (OC). If so check your serial number in the activation tab before you delete it, copy it. Delete VC and add the OC part and paste the serial code back into the activation tab. Saves you from defaulting it and button activation.





spiwrx said:


> Yes, if you programmed it this way. If you just used the check box in the software you can just un-check it.
> If you designed it as a Vaccancy,(VC) you have to delete it and add it back as a vacancy (OC). If so check your serial number in the activation tab before you delete it, copy it. Delete VC and add the OC part and paste the serial code back into the activation tab. Saves you from defaulting it and button activation.
> 
> View attachment 3184696


Having issues with both of these suggestions:

A couple things I found when trying your advice:

1. When I have lights that are programmed to turn on from an occupancy sensor in a room, there is no 'Roll Back' option. Clicking on the drop down of that room in OCCUPANCY MODE, Roll Back isn't displayed. So, that is not an option.

2. Also, you recommended to uncheck 'unoccupied' when wanting to have lights left on and not turn off after activated by the motion detector. But when I unselect these particular lights while in 'unoccupied', it also eliminates those loads from the 'occupied' option to turn on when motion is activated - so this isn't working either. 

Did I miss something or is there a new software? I'm on 12.10. Thanks for the help.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Hmm... One last thing, I cannot seem to bring up 'Roll Back' in the rooms with Occupancy sensors - only rooms without an Occupancy Sensors -
> 
> So I can't set the 2 hour period to leave on... Or is there another way to get to 'Roll Back' for these switches for 2 hours in the rooms with Occupancy Sensors?? Thanks!


I think the workaround on this is move the sensor to another "room" in the software or the switch.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Having issues with both of these suggestions:
> 
> A couple things I found when trying your advice:
> 
> 1. When I have lights that are programmed to turn on from an occupancy sensor in a room, there is no 'Roll Back' option. Clicking on the drop down of that room in OCCUPANCY MODE, Roll Back isn't displayed. So, that is not an option.
> 
> 2. Also, you recommended to uncheck 'unoccupied' when wanting to have lights left on and not turn off after activated by the motion detector. But when I unselect these particular lights while in 'unoccupied', it also eliminates those loads from the 'occupied' option to turn on when motion is activated - so this isn't working either.
> 
> Did I miss something or is there a new software? I'm on 12.10. Thanks for the help.


1) If the Sensor is in the "Bathroom" create another room called "Bathroom Sensor" and only place the sensor in it. This is the same problem if you want 2 different "roll back" times in the same room, you have to move one because the "rollback" applies to everything in that room. I would call it an over site in the software, but this should work.

2)


thebland said:


> Having issues with both of these suggestions:
> 
> A couple things I found when trying your advice:
> 
> 1. When I have lights that are programmed to turn on from an occupancy sensor in a room, there is no 'Roll Back' option. Clicking on the drop down of that room in OCCUPANCY MODE, Roll Back isn't displayed. So, that is not an option.
> 
> 2. Also, you recommended to uncheck 'unoccupied' when wanting to have lights left on and not turn off after activated by the motion detector. But when I unselect these particular lights while in 'unoccupied', it also eliminates those loads from the 'occupied' option to turn on when motion is activated - so this isn't working either.
> 
> Did I miss something or is there a new software? I'm on 12.10. Thanks for the help.


1) Say the Room you are working on is the "Bathroom", create another room called "Bathroom Sensor" and only place the sensor in it. Then you can do both, "rollback" & sensor. This is a workaround and likewise if you want two different rollback times in the same room, you have to move one of the dimmer/switch to another room. As cumbersome as it is, this it the only way right now.

2) I was sure you used to be able to do this. But there are a couple work around here. I never used it for this but in the "Unoccupied" level setting change it from 0% to "unaffected". This is the simplest and most straight forward way for the dimmer/switch to ignore the "unoccupied" action.

- or -

If you only want the lights to come "on" adjust the "unoccupied" dimming/switch level to the same level as the occupied setting.
The catch is, it will reset the rollback when the "unoccupied" time hits. Say your sensor is 15minutes and your roll back is 120min, it will time out 120min after the 15min of the sensor(135min).

Caution: if the roll back was shorter than the sensor, the sensor would turn the lights back on at timeout and again re-initiate the rollback.
Say your Rollback was 15min and your sensor was 30min. Sensor would turn lights on & start counting, Rollback should shut them off in 15min and at the sensors 30min mark, they would go back "on" _(if they were programmed to do so in "unoccupied")_ and "rollback" to off again in another 15min. All these commands are literal. So just think of it as sending these commands on the timing if it helps you wrap your head around it.


----------



## spiwrx

Remember if you use the "Rollback" it's always active. you can't have it both ways.
So any time you trigger a dimmer/switch the rollback will happen that many minutes later.
If you turn a switch on directly, it will rollback. 
If you turn it on from a pico or keypad, it will rollback.
If it turns on via a sensor _(in another room)_, it will rollback.
If you initiate it from the APP, it will rollback.
If you have a time schedule event, it will turn it "on" and rollback.

And rollback doesn't have to be to 0% or Off. You can set it to any level.

Also, if you are placing multiple sensors in the same room, best practice to keep them at least 24" apart.


----------



## thebland

OK. I'm on it. Thanks for the truly detailed explanation... and this workaround. Stay tuned!


----------



## spiwrx

Just going to leave this here, as I have nothing to add at this point...
_(our guesses are they are adding their Sunnata Dimmer but don't quote me on that, just a guess)_


----------



## SJHT

Will this be the announcement for RadioRA3??


----------



## jfeger

SJHT said:


> Will this be the announcement for RadioRA3??


I was thinking perhaps a Main Repeater that supports LEAP or an App. For example, it’s Ra2 Select but without the limitations of Select.


----------



## spiwrx

SJHT said:


> Will this be the announcement for RadioRA3??


They definitely left it open ended enough. But I honestly think it the Sunnata Dimmer. 



jfeger said:


> I was thinking perhaps a Main Repeater that supports LEAP or an App. For example, it’s Ra2 Select but without the limitations of Select.


I would hope they have a redesigned repeater. Sort of silly we still need it plus connect bridge.


----------



## smoothtlk

spiwrx said:


> They definitely left it open ended enough. But I honestly think it the Sunnata Dimmer.
> 
> 
> I would hope they have a redesigned repeater. Sort of silly we still need it plus connect bridge.


that would be a pretty anticlimatic denouement for that teaser.
Too early to announce integration with "Matter". Plus they say their announcement has been worked on for years (pre Matter). 
I would guess they have a more extended control system to announce. Not that it is really needed because there are plenty of control systems around that integrate with RadioRa2 that will undoubtedly be more capable than what Lutron would provide. 

myServer now supports Circadian dimming / color changing with any supported controllable light(s). Set your "wade points" of time of day (or weekend) targets and myServer calculates a smooth curve to transition the lights to those set wade points. That's the kind of thing I would think Lutron would introduce. But a few control systems already have that control over standard Lutron lighting devices (and many others). More precise and creative with DMX RGB / white lights than a standard dimmer.


----------



## spiwrx

The model numbers in the patent application suggest Sunnata, Instructions sheet suggests the Radio Ra 3 part to be programmed via software and be placed with in range of two other devices and repeater(s). This is very similar instructions to the Homeworks Clear Connect Gateway device. Suggested part numbers don't suggest a proprietary new system but stranger things have happened. RA classic prefixes were RA-xxx, RA 2 are all RRxxx and suggested new parts are RRST-xxxx I'm guessing the ST is for Sunnata along with the instruction sheet saying so but it also says Homeworks and RA3. 

Hopefully we'll know sooner than later, but close examination of the teaser photo shows the 4 button profile of the Sunnata Keypad and the further shot appears to be the Sunnata Dimmer profile.


----------



## brantmacga

spiwrx said:


> Just going to leave this here, as I have nothing to add at this point...
> _(our guesses are they are adding their Sunnata Dimmer but don't quote me on that, just a guess)_
> View attachment 3188427


Per the FCC filings it is RadioRa3, and Sunnata keypad/dimmer for RR3 and Homeworks.

They use Clear Connect type X. 

The new gateways have CC-X and CC-A that RR2 uses. 










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

brantmacga said:


> Per the FCC filings it is RadioRa3, and Sunnata keypad/dimmer for RR3 and Homeworks.
> 
> They use Clear Connect type X.
> 
> The new gateways have CC-X and CC-A that RR2 uses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good find. It seems like we might be able to use our current Radio Ra2 systems with these new switches with perhaps a new main repeater that does both bands of Clear Connect (hopefully).


----------



## brantmacga

thebland said:


> Good find. It seems like we might be able to use our current Radio Ra2 systems with these new switches with perhaps a new main repeater that does both bands of Clear Connect (hopefully).


These switches won’t work with RR2 as they do not have the 434mhz radios. 

But the new RR3 gateways have both Clear Connect A and X, so you should technically be able to use RR2 devices with an RR3 gateway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thebland

brantmacga said:


> These switches won’t work with RR2 as they do not have the 434mhz radios.
> 
> But the new RR3 gateways have both Clear Connect A and X, so you should technically be able to use RR2 devices with an RR3 gateway.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Got it. But since RR2 devices only talk to the main repeater and are not on a mesh network with other switches, I’d hope we could integrate the new RA3 switches into our current RA2 systems with only the need to update / replace the Main Repeater.
I guess wait and see…


----------



## SJHT

Think I read on Reddit that some folks think Lutron will eliminate Telnet connections to the main repeater in RadioRA3?


----------



## ksalno

SJHT said:


> Think I read on Reddit that some folks think Lutron will eliminate Telnet connections to the main repeater in RadioRA3?


That’s going to kill a lot of integrations with other home automation systems.


----------



## SJHT

ksalno said:


> That’s going to kill a lot of integrations with other home automation systems.


Agree, but they would setup to make more $$$ by charging for integration with the major players. All speculation at this point…


----------



## jfeger

Hmmm. I was at first excited about this, as I am someone who is just getting into the Lutron ecosystem. My house is currently a mix of old Insteon, Z-Wave, and a couple of different control systems that are linked (Indigo and Hubitat). I was about to pull the trigger on several Ra2 dimmers and a main repeater to tie into my Hubitat system the day I received the email from Lutron. I was at first excited about the idea of the new repeater, but now maybe I will just go ahead and buy everything since the integration might be somewhat challenging / delayed with something new. I guess its "only" a ~$600 gamble.


----------



## smoothtlk

Or get a control system that will support both main repeaters and continue using RR2 and add RR3 devices and let the automation controller bridge the two networks.


----------



## SJHT

Announcement….

Lutron Press Releases - Up-to-Date Light Control News and Information


----------



## DMILANI

I wonder if those of us that took BLAST training (for me that was many years ago), and have access to RA2 Essentials will be able to download and access the RA3 programming software when available?


----------



## SJHT

Looks like there is a new API and no more Telnet. That might cut a lot of integration with the non-major 3rd parties? Time will tell…


----------



## DMILANI

To answer my own question, when I log into my myLutron account, I can get access to the online training for RA3 and after the exam, will be able to download the software. There are 21 modules in the course, so will have to set aside some time in the future to take this.


----------



## spiwrx

This thread has been going on since 2009. With Radio Ra 3 just being announced I though it may be time for a fresh thread. Please follow along on a new thread I just created here:
Radio Ra 3 Thread 

Yes, looks like we have 90% backwards compatibility to the new all in one PoE processor. At this point the Grafik Eye, Grafit T and WPM's are not compatible, along with some of their own seeTemp and other HVAC controls. But all your dimmers, keypads, etc. are actually part of the RA3 lineup as well as new additions of the Sunnata Dimmer and Keypads. More details in the new thread

I invite you to please jump over to the other thread, and lets discuss RA3 there going forward.

I'll still be monitoring this and other Lutron and HA related pages.


----------



## jfeger

Of course they made the announcement today! I decided to not wait and submitted an order last night for the RA2 main repeater, several of the PRO switches, a companion, and a seeTouch. I immediately was a little frustrated since I couldn't cancel, as the order appears to have been processed quickly this morning (Thank you Hanks for being fast!). After a few minutes of debate and more reading on the new gateway, I decided to go ahead and move forward with my Ra2 initial order. The new GW has too many unknowns in terms of integration with my specific setup (Hubitat, Indigo, HASS). The fact they specifically list the RA2 devices are compatible with the new GW also gave me some reassurance. All in all, if I upgrade to the new GW then I am essentially out the cost and time of changing from a main repeater on Ra2 to the new GW.

Hopefully the new GW and LEAP will be open enough that the community of DIYers can keep the strong Lutron support moving forward!


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> I'll still be monitoring this and other Lutron and HA related pages.


Wasn't sure if I should ask this on the new thread or old one..
Any guesses to how long orders for Ra2 devices will stick around? 
I'm going to need a whole house worth of dimmers and keypads in Q1'22. I already have the main repeater and Connect bridge for RA2, from the the L2 training, and i'm not sure that RA3 is going to add value to me right now.


----------



## spiwrx

dragonian said:


> Wasn't sure if I should ask this on the new thread or old one..
> Any guesses to how long orders for Ra2 devices will stick around?
> I'm going to need a whole house worth of dimmers and keypads in Q1'22. I already have the main repeater and Connect bridge for RA2, from the the L2 training, and i'm not sure that RA3 is going to add value to me right now.


Radio Ra 2 is not discontinued and the core dimmers and keypads continue to be a part of the Radio Ra 3 family as well. 
To add to that, RA3 will be lucky to ship in Q1 with the current shortages they are having. 
Additionally they have in the past made product through their obsolete parts division for up to 10years after the product cycle has ended. I cannot speak that they will do the same, but the current product is not discontinued.

RA3 mainly brings in their Clear Connect "X" Sunnata products based on a Mesh network instead of dedicated repeaters. And will also work with traditional "A" product RR2 with traditional auxiliary repeaters (as needed). There are a few products excluded from this backward compatibilty at the moment, namely the Grafik Eye, Grafik T and WPM as well as some of the HVAC controls. No mention to when or if they will be added. There are some integration and security details thats some people may be interested in, but mainly a new mesh architecture for the Sunnata, new programming software and the new Sunnata style devices.


----------



## spiwrx

Just had a review & Q&A on the RA3 and want to emphasize the Radio Ra 2_ is not_ being discontinued at this point. If you like that style of device you can still use what they are now calling the "Type A" devices on RA3 Processor or Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater + Connect Bridge. Excluded will be the WPM, Grafik Eye, Grafik T _(likely to be discontinued ),_ and the HVAC Controller, seeTemp control and wireless temperature sensors. 

The Type A devices are the Maestro type dimmers, switches, fan speed control & keypads including Pico and wireless sensors. Moving forward the RA3 processor can replace the Main Repeater + Connect Bridge if you don't want any of the incompatible devices mentioned above. If you still want to use any of them, you need to still order and use the RR2 Main Repeater and Connect Bridge. Likewise if you want to maintain telnet. The RA3 will not support telnet and will use LEAP. 

The Type X devices work on a 2.4ghz mesh network and Processor. 

The new RA3 processor will speak both type A & X simultaneously so you can create one or the other or a hybrid of both. 

Again I will ask you to forward your RA3 questions to the new thread and maintain this thread for RA2, realizing there will be some overlap. 

In terms of upgrading, as long as you don't have any non-compatible devices, you can simply run your job file through the new software, install the new PoE based processor replacing your Main Repeater and/ connect bridge, and do a transfer. It's supposed to be that simple. You like need a version 9 or later job file. If you haven't upgrade per-version 9 IM or email me and I can upgrade your file or if you have access you can find legacy versions of the software you need to step through to get up to 9 or later. 

There is no incentive or buy-back as they have done in the past simply because both systems are still current product and nothing is being disconintued at this point.


----------



## ksalno

spiwrx said:


> There is no incentive or buy-back as they have done in the past simply because both systems are still current product and nothing is being disconintued at this point.


Nothing except the devices you mentioned. I have 3 HVAC units with HVAC controller, SeeTemp, and 5-6 remote temp sensors. Is there something coming that will replace these if I upgrade my Master. Also, I have 2 Masters and 2 Aux repeaters to cover the house and garage. With the RA3 I won’t need two Masters as it appears the RA3 will handle up to 200 devices. But I use the aux repeaters to cover parts of the house that the Master controllers don’t reach. Is there anything like that for the RA3?


----------



## SJHT

You can still use repeaters for the RA2 devices that are supported in RA3. RA3 devices form a mesh network.. SJ


----------



## ksalno

SJHT said:


> You can still use repeaters for the RA2 devices that are supported in RA3. RA3 devices form a mesh network.. SJ





spiwrx said:


> Just had a review & Q&A on the RA3 and want to emphasize the Radio Ra 2_ is not_ being discontinued at this point. If you like that style of device you can still use what they are now calling the "Type A" devices on RA3 Processor or Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater + Connect Bridge. Excluded will be the WPM, Grafik Eye, Grafik T _(likely to be discontinued ),_ and the HVAC Controller, seeTemp control and wireless temperature sensors.


I was specifically asking about the HVAC control equipment, which is excluded from compatibility with the RA3.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Just had a review & Q&A on the RA3 and want to emphasize the Radio Ra 2_ is not_ being discontinued at this point. If you like that style of device you can still use what they are now calling the "Type A" devices on RA3 Processor or Radio Ra 2 Main Repeater + Connect Bridge. Excluded will be the WPM, Grafik Eye, Grafik T _(likely to be discontinued ),_ and the HVAC Controller, seeTemp control and wireless temperature sensors.
> 
> The Type A devices are the Maestro type dimmers, switches, fan speed control & keypads including Pico and wireless sensors. Moving forward the RA3 processor can replace the Main Repeater + Connect Bridge if you don't want any of the incompatible devices mentioned above. If you still want to use any of them, you need to still order and use the RR2 Main Repeater and Connect Bridge. Likewise if you want to maintain telnet. The RA3 will not support telnet and will use LEAP.
> 
> The Type X devices work on a 2.4ghz mesh network and Processor.
> 
> The new RA3 processor will speak both type A & X simultaneously so you can create one or the other or a hybrid of both.
> 
> Again I will ask you to forward your RA3 questions to the new thread and maintain this thread for RA2, realizing there will be some overlap.
> 
> In terms of upgrading, as long as you don't have any non-compatible devices, you can simply run your job file through the new software, install the new PoE based processor replacing your Main Repeater and/ connect bridge, and do a transfer. It's supposed to be that simple. You like need a version 9 or later job file. If you haven't upgrade per-version 9 IM or email me and I can upgrade your file or if you have access you can find legacy versions of the software you need to step through to get up to 9 or later.
> 
> There is no incentive or buy-back as they have done in the past simply because both systems are still current product and nothing is being discontinued at this point.


So, if I understand you, (excluding non-supported equipment) you simply add the new RA3 processor, transfer your current RA2 program file with all your RA2 switches, etc and your done? Pack up Main repeater - not needed anymore?

Thanks


----------



## spiwrx

ksalno said:


> Nothing except the devices you mentioned. I have 3 HVAC units with HVAC controller, SeeTemp, and 5-6 remote temp sensors. Is there something coming that will replace these if I upgrade my Master.


I cannot answer for them but I would guess it to be unlikely. I wouldn't hold my breath for this. I think they will be pruging a few of there less popular models. Seems the Grafik T will also go away. 




> Also, I have 2 Masters and 2 Aux repeaters to cover the house and garage. With the RA3 I won’t need two Masters as it appears the RA3 will handle up to 200 devices. But I use the aux repeaters to cover parts of the house that the Master controllers don’t reach. Is there anything like that for the RA3?


RA3 Processor does handle 200 devices but 100 Type A (RR2) + 95 (RR3) Sunnata type X devices w/ 5 spaces reserved for processor + repeaters. So you will likely still need 2 processors when they add that capability later in 2022

Again, there is no reason you need to upgrade to RA3 unless you want Sunnata and/or LEAP.


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> So, if I understand you, (excluding non-supported equipment) you simply add the new RA3 processor, transfer your current RA2 program file with all your RA2 switches, etc and your done? Pack up Main repeater - not needed anymore?
> 
> Thanks


It's supposedly that easy, but again none of us have had the ability to try yet. But yes that is the correct sequence of events as we're being instructed now. 
Should be as simple as upgrading software revision now. The RA3 "designer" software should convert any of the more recent versions and populate a RA3 version you simple need to activate your new processor & transfer.


----------



## spiwrx

If you are interested in the RA3 processor, or other parts, please message or preferably email me. Most all of you have my email. I'm just gauging interest for my initial order.

There are 2 options:
RR-PROC3-KIT _(I'll call the surface mount kit, includes the PoE injector. You'll need this if you don't have an available PoE port. Shelf Mount adapter could be wall mounted but is bulky.) _
RR-PROC3-CW _(Ceiling / Wall kit. Requires a PoE port (no injector included) and semi-recesses the processor. Can be cut into drywall or junction box adapter included for US standard 3-0 fixture boxes and mud rings (2-3/4 screw mounting) A little bit cheaper since there is no injector or cable. _

Link to Processor installation manual image is clipped from:
https://webapiaw1proddat01st01.blob.core.windows.net/assets/documents/044377.pdf


----------



## spiwrx

I'm not endorsing it but looks like the Hubitat is on sale right now. $119.95
https://hubitat.com/products

I'm looking to pick one up so I can help some others, I don't really need another controller like this, but maybe it's better or easier than the HomeSeer I'm currently sing. I'll let you know.


----------



## bill.d

I think Hubitat is the easiest, and probably cheapest, way to add conditional programming to a RadioRA 2 system. One of the owners uses RadioRA 2 and is active on the forums. So questions get answered quickly. The only downside for some customers is the dashboards aren't very pretty. I personally use Homebridge to pass the devices to Apple Home. The Hubitat Integration via Hombridge is better than the native Lutron integration in that the 'on' state is programmable similar to a physical dimmer. Unlike Lutron's native Home integration where 'on' goes to 100% and is not configurable. There are other dashboard alternatives.

My experience Home Assistant has not been very good. The integration is old style (not UI), and questions on the forums go unanswered. I've had my Lutron configuration in Home Assistant get screwed up twice in the last couple of months during their update process. What a PITA.

I think it's interesting that Lutron won't put conditional control into RadioRA 3 when these inexpensive controllers can do so much to add functionality to the system.


----------



## spiwrx

I got a Hubitat yesterday. I thought it was very simple and the UI was easy. I stumbled through it without much need for any documentation. 
a couple pointers from my setup.
1) I was trying to connect though a 1st generation Connect Bridge and I didn't get any errors in the log, but it wasn't working. I changed the IP directly to my main repeater and works like a charm. 
2) "Basic Rules" only allowed for "and" functionality or I had to make separate rules for all my "or" rules. Instead I added the "Rule Machine" app and you can use "or" statement there. 
3) It seems faster than my HomeSeer setup but I had a really old PI running HomeSeer (2?). 
4) I didn't look for it, but loaded all my devices seemed time consuming Would be nice if it could "find" device or import integration report. Again I didn't look to deep into finding other solutions for this. It was easy enough to add devices. 
5) Still don't see the reason for the 2 different Pico setting in the Lutron integrator. Pushed/held and pushed/released.
6) you can't added lutron devices though "add device" you need to use Lutron integratgor. No big deal, but Lutron being such a major player, you think it would be built in here as well. 

Regardless, it was quite painless and took all of about 30 minutes to get it all setup, add my devices and write a few rules.


----------



## bill.d

spiwrx said:


> I got a Hubitat yesterday. I thought it was very simple and the UI was easy. I stumbled through it without much need for any documentation.
> a couple pointers from my setup.
> 1) I was trying to connect though a 1st generation Connect Bridge and I didn't get any errors in the log, but it wasn't working. I changed the IP directly to my main repeater and works like a charm.
> 2) "Basic Rules" only allowed for "and" functionality or I had to make separate rules for all my "or" rules. Instead I added the "Rule Machine" app and you can use "or" statement there.
> 3) It seems faster than my HomeSeer setup but I had a really old PI running HomeSeer (2?).
> 4) I didn't look for it, but loaded all my devices seemed time consuming Would be nice if it could "find" device or import integration report. Again I didn't look to deep into finding other solutions for this. It was easy enough to add devices.
> 5) Still don't see the reason for the 2 different Pico setting in the Lutron integrator. Pushed/held and pushed/released.
> 6) you can't added lutron devices though "add device" you need to use Lutron integratgor. No big deal, but Lutron being such a major player, you think it would be built in here as well.
> 
> Regardless, it was quite painless and took all of about 30 minutes to get it all setup, add my devices and write a few rules.


1) Yes, the IP address should be your main repeater. The integration is via Telnet. So connect bridge is not required at all.
2) Make sure to check out the built in apps. For example, Button Controllers for your keypads and Picos and Motion Lighting for your motion sensors. Most automations don't need rule machine. But some do. If you want to do vacancy mode for a motion sensor Motion Lighting won't do it. Rule Machine is what's needed. That built in motion lighting app would cost $60 for a roughly equivalent Control4 driver. Also, I would suggest skipping the "RA2 Button Integrator" app that is added via the main Lutron app. It works, but the Button Controller app is a lot more full featured. It's a legacy app from when Hubitat was first developed.
4) That's the way it works for better or worse. The automatic way, like Home Assistant uses, has it's drawbacks too. I guess it would be nice to have a prompt to automatically set devices up one time. But it's more or less a one time exercise.
5) Picos report pushed and released over telnet. A hold is derived via calculating the difference between time stamps. The regular Pico driver has to wait to determine if the button push is a push or a hold. The fast Pico driver doesn't support hold, so it can proceed without a wait. 
6) I imagine this is mostly a legacy thing. If you look at the device DNI you'll see it's a mix of integration ID and Hubitat repeater ID. You can then figure out how to add a device directly if you wanted to.


----------



## spiwrx

bill.d said:


> 1) Yes, the IP address should be your main repeater. The integration is via Telnet. So connect bridge is not required at all.
> 2) Make sure to check out the built in apps. For example, Button Controllers for your keypads and Picos and Motion Lighting for your motion sensors. Most automations don't need rule machine. But some do. If you want to do vacancy mode for a motion sensor Motion Lighting won't do it. Rule Machine is what's needed. That built in motion lighting app would cost $60 for a roughly equivalent Control4 driver. Also, I would suggest skipping the "RA2 Button Integrator" app that is added via the main Lutron app. It works, but the Button Controller app is a lot more full featured. It's a legacy app from when Hubitat was first developed.
> 4) That's the way it works for better or worse. The automatic way, like Home Assistant uses, has it's drawbacks too. I guess it would be nice to have a prompt to automatically set devices up one time. But it's more or less a one time exercise.
> 5) Picos report pushed and released over telnet. A hold is derived via calculating the difference between time stamps. The regular Pico driver has to wait to determine if the button push is a push or a hold. The fast Pico driver doesn't support hold, so it can proceed without a wait.
> 6) I imagine this is mostly a legacy thing. If you look at the device DNI you'll see it's a mix of integration ID and Hubitat repeater ID. You can then figure out how to add a device directly if you wanted to.


1) I should have clarified the hubitata directions show to pull your IP off thew APP but the APP reports the IP of the connect bridge, or at least mine does. This comment if mainly for the benefit of others. 
5) I understand what your saying but I'm not sure how anything in the Lutron world uses this info. Maybe only the dimming raise/lower buttons. And perhaps when to start a delay or fade.


----------



## bill.d

spiwrx said:


> 5) I understand what your saying but I'm not sure how anything in the Lutron world uses this info. Maybe only the dimming raise/lower buttons. And perhaps when to start a delay or fade.


Picos are great general purpose button devices. Picos can get turned into general 5-10 button keypads, used with any device, Lutron or not. There are many people who have Caséta Smart Bridge Pros just to get access to Picos.

One other thing, if you haven't done so, make sure to add your main repeater as a keypad device. That gives you access to all the phantom buttons.


----------



## thebland

Curious, is there another way to move rooms (or activated devices) to a second Main Repeater without having to factory reset these devices to default and then reactivate?

I'm getting this error (below) when dragging the activated devices (and rooms) from one Main Repeater to the 2nd Main Repeater.

IS there another way?? I'd like to do this without doing the whole reset and reactivation (if possible)...


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Curious, is there another way to move rooms (or activated devices) to a second Main Repeater without having to factory reset these devices to default and then reactivate?
> 
> I'm getting this error (below) when dragging the activated devices (and rooms) from one Main Repeater to the 2nd Main Repeater.
> 
> IS there another way?? I'd like to do this without doing the whole reset and reactivation (if possible)...


Yes, you can literally drag and drop them or write down the activation serial number and renter it at activation.

I did a short video on youtube for this reason:


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Yes, you can literally drag and drop them or write down the activation serial number and renter it at activation.
> 
> I did a short video on youtube for this reason:


I saw that video. That seems to only work on a non-activated 2nd main repeater. You notice in your video, when they move the room to the 2nd main repeater, there's no error message (Like I get). You can see in my screen shot, I moved the room down to the other main repeater and I got the error message. 

So, you're saying If I agree to reset then reactivate devices after re-adding to the second main repeater (as warned in the error message), just putting in the serial number will negate the need to reset and reactivate?

Thanks


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> I saw that video. That seems to only work on a non-activated 2nd main repeater. You notice in your video, when they move the room to the 2nd main repeater, there's no error message (Like I get). You can see in my screen shot, I moved the room down to the other main repeater and I got the error message.
> 
> So, you're saying If I agree to reset then reactivate devices after re-adding to the second main repeater (as warned in the error message), just putting in the serial number will negate the need to reset and reactivate?
> 
> Thanks


Of course. That makes sense and I didn't think of that when I made the video. Becasue it's already activated and assigned to 1 repeater, You will have to delete and add it back. Just write down the serial number prior to deleting it (from the activation screen) and manually enter it when you re-activate it to the new repeater. This will keep you from having to factory reset it and do any "walk-around" activation.


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> Of course. That makes sense and I didn't think of that when I made the video. Becasue it's already activated and assigned to 1 repeater, You will have to delete and add it back. Just write down the serial number prior to deleting it (from the activation screen) and manually enter it when you re-activate it to the new repeater. This will keep you from having to factory reset it and do any "walk-around" activation.


Awesome. Good to know and much easier. I appreciate the help!


----------



## duckymomo

Another recommendation for Hubitat. I need everything in my house to work 99.9% of the time and it meets that, easily. I've never had a single missed command or issue. Very Lutron like.

Has Lutron confirmed that RA2 is discontinued? I really like Telnet and for me, 6 button keypads makes a big difference compared to only 4 for RA3. Thinking of getting some more.


----------



## spiwrx

duckymomo said:


> Another recommendation for Hubitat. I need everything in my house to work 99.9% of the time and it meets that, easily. I've never had a single missed command or issue. Very Lutron like.
> 
> Has Lutron confirmed that RA2 is discontinued? I really like telnet and for me, 6 button keypads makes a big difference compared to only 4 for RA3.


No. Lutron is not at this point discontinuing RA2. They will both be availble for the time being. They are leaving the option open for the Maestro style dimmers. It won't make fininacial sense to buy the RA2 repeater and bridge, but until there are LEAP updates that's what you'll have to do. TELNET will not be in RA3. Keep in mind we still get calls all the time for people still running fine on RA1 and wanting to add to their system or having LED compatibility issues. There is no reason to change your stuff out unless you want the new Sunata style dimmers and keypads. 

Also very happy with my Hubitat.


----------



## thebland

Has anyone tried these RA3 dimmers yet in a system? I wonder how the mesh network will compare to Clear Connect?

How long will RA2 dimmers be available after they are discontinued? I am still debating a new system (another house) with RA2. No Hybrids / SeeTouch keypads on the horizon for RA3 yet...


----------



## SJHT

thebland said:


> Has anyone tried these RA3 dimmers yet in a system? I wonder how the mesh network will compare to Clear Connect?
> 
> How long will RA2 dimmers be available after they are discontinued? I am still debating a new system (another house) with RA2. No Hybrids / SeeTouch keypads on the horizon for RA3 yet...


It is my understanding that they are not available until late January. Some distributors are taking preorders… SJ


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Has anyone tried these RA3 dimmers yet in a system? I wonder how the mesh network will compare to Clear Connect?
> 
> How long will RA2 dimmers be available after they are discontinued? I am still debating a new system (another house) with RA2. No Hybrids / SeeTouch keypads on the horizon for RA3 yet...


Lutron has tested it and are not known to leave a lot up to chance. RA3 will only start shippng at the end of January.


----------



## LKW_Sys

I have had schedules setup for a while based on time of day to turn lights on at night and off a few hours later. Sometime in the last few weeks they have simply stopped working. I have tried deleting and recreating schedules with both app and software, updated main repeater firmware to 12.10, resync'd project from software, checked the mode (normal, vacation, etc) and setup test schedules that use all modes, power cycled main repeater, ran Tools->Diagnostics and saw everything was communicating properly. With all of that still can't get the schedules to execute. 

Any ideas on how to fix this?


----------



## thebland

Check your time zone in RA2?

Setting a rollback might be a temp fix


----------



## spiwrx

LKW_Sys said:


> I have had schedules setup for a while based on time of day to turn lights on at night and off a few hours later. Sometime in the last few weeks they have simply stopped working. I have tried deleting and recreating schedules with both app and software, updated main repeater firmware to 12.10, resync'd project from software, checked the mode (normal, vacation, etc) and setup test schedules that use all modes, power cycled main repeater, ran Tools->Diagnostics and saw everything was communicating properly. With all of that still can't get the schedules to execute.
> 
> Any ideas on how to fix this?


Make sure you don't have a "suspend" timeclock mode button activated somewhere. This will stop/suspend all the "normal" time schedules and it's not found in the time schedules, it's a keypad button mode.

A suspend button is often used for when you are entertaining so timers don't start turning things off. Effectively ignores all time clock schedules until disabled.

I don't like to put this on a physical button, but if it is on one, that buttons status LED should be illuminated.

(RA2) This can be programmed to any (keypad) button or phantom button set to time clock mode and applying the "suspend" feature

More obscure, if you used a "Security Mode" and it's activated the devices would stay at there programmed level until this mode is disabled.


----------



## thebland

*Main Repeater In Safe Mode*

Any idea on how to boot out of safe mode? I've tried to connect and reload firmware that was spelled out in the software error message after alerting me to Safe Mode. I have tried directly connecting the Main Repeater to my PC and attempting to connect to the RA2 software but still can't connect to it.

What are next steps? This issue occurred while I tried to upload a file. This is one Main Repeater in a 2 Main Repeater system (the other Main Repeater is fine) - haven't seen this before.

I am sure I can reset to factory defaults - but if I did so, would I set to previous static IP address and run the software?

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

If you can, it will likely start with defaulting the main repeater (pge 14 below). You might get Lutron on the phone, to offer additional assistance.

NOTE: This command will factory default all devices that are activated to the Main Repeater. Do not factory default the Main Repeater if the Main Repeater is not in Safe Mode. It is recommended to have a copy of the project file for this site on hand before performing this step. Once the Main Repeater returns to normal mode, use the project file when entering Activation mode and re-activate devices automatically using the stored device serial numbers in the project file. 

Factory Defaulting instructions (all devices)


----------



## SJHT

thebland said:


> *Main Repeater In Safe Mode*
> 
> Any idea on how to boot out of safe mode? I've tried to connect and reload firmware that was spelled out in the software error message after alerting me to Safe Mode. I have tried directly connecting the Main Repeater to my PC and attempting to connect to the RA2 software but still can't connect to it.
> 
> What are next steps? This issue occurred while I tried to upload a file. This is one Main Repeater in a 2 Main Repeater system (the other Main Repeater is fine) - haven't seen this before.
> 
> I am sure I can reset to factory defaults - but if I did so, would I set to previous static IP address and run the software?
> 
> Thanks!


Found this:






Main repeater LED blink codes


The RadioRA 2 Main Repeater can indicate various states to the user through specific blinking patterns of its LED's. Below, you will find the most common Main Repeater's blink codes, their meaning, and steps to bring the device back to normal if the current state is abnormal. Test LED and...



forums.lutron.com


----------



## thebland

spiwrx said:


> If you can, it will likely start with defaulting the main repeater (pge 14 below). You might get Lutron on the phone, to offer additional assistance.
> 
> NOTE: This command will factory default all devices that are activated to the Main Repeater. Do not factory default the Main Repeater if the Main Repeater is not in Safe Mode. It is recommended to have a copy of the project file for this site on hand before performing this step. Once the Main Repeater returns to normal mode, use the project file when entering Activation mode and re-activate devices automatically using the stored device serial numbers in the project file.
> 
> Factory Defaulting instructions (all devices)
> 
> View attachment 3240458
> 
> 
> 
> SJHT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Main repeater LED blink codes
> 
> 
> The RadioRA 2 Main Repeater can indicate various states to the user through specific blinking patterns of its LED's. Below, you will find the most common Main Repeater's blink codes, their meaning, and steps to bring the device back to normal if the current state is abnormal. Test LED and...
> 
> 
> 
> forums.lutron.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> I got a hold of Lutron Support. They're recommending the *GulliverBootCommunications.exe* process to resurrect it out of safe mode. They recommended a factory reset as a last resort (as it could brick the Main Repeater). There is a Gulliver.exe file buried in the Radio Ra2 software (C:\Program Files\Lutron\RadioRA 2 x.x.xx\EssentialsInclusive\Firmware\RadioRA2\radiora2_proc_os_latest\bootcommunicator folder). However, I could not find it in my software... Strange. I may try and redownload. I sent an email on this and am awaiting a response.. Perhaps, they can send the boot loader file so I can load a special file (that I do have within the RA2 software on my PC) that is used to erase the bad firmware and restore it.
> 
> Anyone ever try this?
Click to expand...

Thanks guys.

I got a hold of Lutron Support. They're recommending the *GulliverBootCommunications.exe* process to resurrect it out of safe mode. They recommended a factory reset as a last resort (as it could brick the Main Repeater). There is a Gulliver.exe file buried in the Radio Ra2 software (C:\Program Files\Lutron\RadioRA 2 x.x.xx\EssentialsInclusive\Firmware\RadioRA2\radiora2_proc_os_latest\bootcommunicator folder). However, I could not find it in my software... Strange. I may try and redownload. I sent an email on this and am awaiting a response.. Perhaps, they can send the boot loader file so I can load a special file (that I do have within the RA2 software on my PC) that is used to erase the bad firmware and restore it.

Anyone ever try this?

Actually, can you check your software to see if you see the BootLoader file?

IT should be here: C:\Program Files\Lutron\RadioRA 2 x.x.xx\EssentialsInclusive\Firmware\RadioRA2\radiora2_proc_os_latest\bootcommunicator .


----------



## thebland

Double post. See above///


----------



## thebland

Lutron just sent me a bootloader file. I’m gonna give it a try in a little bit and I’ll post my results to see if I can resurrect this Main Repeater.


----------



## thebland

Well, tried resurrecting the Main Repeater and I think it is bricked. 

I ended up doing a factory reset. The software says it is activated but when I try and transfer and update firmware, northing.

1. I see it in the software but can't transfer. It appears like it is working as software says On-Line and previous IP address is still there.
2. When I try and log into it via IP, I get nothing.


_"Once the Main Repeater returns to normal mode, use the project file when entering Activation mode and re-activate devices automatically using the stored device serial numbers in the project file"._

How do I know it is 'normal mode' (still not 100% sure if it is bricked). OR how do I know if it is bricked. It looks normal but no LEDs showing and not sure if I can't transfer or update firmware if devices haven't been reactivated yet??

Thanks!


----------



## spiwrx

thebland said:


> Well, tried resurrecting the Main Repeater and I think it is bricked.
> 
> I ended up doing a factory reset. The software says it is activated but when I try and transfer and update firmware, northing.
> 
> 1. I see it in the software but can't transfer. It appears like it is working as software says On-Line and previous IP address is still there.
> 2. When I try and log into it via IP, I get nothing.
> 
> 
> _"Once the Main Repeater returns to normal mode, use the project file when entering Activation mode and re-activate devices automatically using the stored device serial numbers in the project file"._
> 
> How do I know it is 'normal mode' (still not 100% sure if it is bricked). OR how do I know if it is bricked. It looks normal but no LEDs showing and not sure if I can't transfer or update firmware if devices haven't been reactivated yet??
> 
> Thanks!


Are you connecting direct(plugged straight from PC to repeater), or over your network? Usually problems like this you have to connect direct.


----------



## SJHT

Do these repeaters brick that often? Sounds painful and wonder if I need a spare! SJ


----------



## thebland

SJHT said:


> Do these repeaters brick that often? Sounds painful and wonder if I need a spare! SJ


This is the first hiccup I’ve had with my RA2 system. An error occurred when I was uploading a simple change in the programming. 

When the repeater is out, 1/2 the house keypads were out, no shades, no vacancies throughout the entire house (I have a 2 repeater system). 1 restorer does the upstairs, 1 repeater the lower levels. 

I don’t think this a common thing when I was trying to troubleshoot online. I don’t think I’ll need to keep a spare - unless I find a smokin’ deal. .


----------



## smoothtlk

To minimize issues, try to keep the networking solid to the repeater during any programming and definitely during firmware updates. Like spiwrx suggests, a direct connection from programming laptop to the hub. Certainly an ethernet hub inbetween. Static addressing on the hub. A glitch in the update can brick the unit.


----------



## thebland

smoothtlk said:


> To minimize issues, try to keep the networking solid to the repeater during any programming and definitely during firmware updates. Like spiwrx suggests, a direct connection from programming laptop to the hub. Certainly an ethernet hub inbetween. Static addressing on the hub. A glitch in the update can brick the unit.


Yep, I suspect it was a Wi-Fi connection to the main repeater that did it in. I should’ve gone ethernet. I have a rocksolid unify system. But Wi-Fi has its own challenges.


----------



## SJHT

Frankly this seems to be an architectural issue in the design. Many other companies components store the update in a separate area so you can revert. But with RA3, likely no changes in the design of a RA2 repeater. I’ve used my laptop for many updates while installing lighting, but use a wired PC for general updates. Think I will stop using my laptop! SJ


----------



## spiwrx

I can say we've sold sold many systems and the only repeaters we've had to replace have been a couple that were recalled about 5(?) years ago. They have been pretty solid. Yes, I've seen all the issues you guys have mentioned, but for the most part they have been correctable. As mentioned, for firmware updates and extensive changes I'd have it on the network(wired), for minor stuff I'm sure your laptop is fine.


----------



## BillW

SJHT said:


> Do these repeaters brick that often? Sounds painful and wonder if I need a spare! SJ


 I have had one go into safe mode, never had one brick. I ended up having to do a factory reset and I was not the original installer so it took me a week to find all the devices and do all the programming.


----------



## spiwrx

Many of you have completed projects, but I just wanted to let you know the current state of availability of Radio Ra products. Things like Hybrid Keypads and Dimmers are months back ordered right now. Some items are showing 21 weeks. Shades that are normally 3-4 weeks are 7-8. With no official press release but we're being told supply chain and chip shortages, again nothing official. The RA3 Sunnata versions are slightly better. Things are shipping. some order we placed in December are starting to ship now. Please plan ahead. Things are improving but we expect it to remain tough going for a while. 
This is affecting other items, brands and trades as well.


----------



## BillW

bill.d said:


> I think Hubitat is the easiest, and probably cheapest, way to add conditional programming to a RadioRA 2 system. One of the owners uses RadioRA 2 and is active on the forums. So questions get answered quickly. The only downside for some customers is the dashboards aren't very pretty. I personally use Homebridge to pass the devices to Apple Home. The Hubitat Integration via Hombridge is better than the native Lutron integration in that the 'on' state is programmable similar to a physical dimmer. Unlike Lutron's native Home integration where 'on' goes to 100% and is not configurable. There are other dashboard alternatives.
> 
> My experience Home Assistant has not been very good. The integration is old style (not UI), and questions on the forums go unanswered. I've had my Lutron configuration in Home Assistant get screwed up twice in the last couple of months during their update process. What a PITA.
> 
> I think it's interesting that Lutron won't put conditional control into RadioRA 3 when these inexpensive controllers can do so much to add functionality to the system.


I was told by a Lutron engineer about 4 years ago that some features needed to be reserved for Homeworks, and that was one of them, at that time so was scheduling timeclock events to only happen certain times od the year - say Christmas. Now that feature is in Ra3. So hopefully that mindset is changing.


----------



## smoothtlk

BillW said:


> I was told by a Lutron engineer about 4 years ago that some features needed to be reserved for Homeworks, and that was one of them, at that time so was scheduling timeclock events to only happen certain times od the year - say Christmas. Now that feature is in Ra3. So hopefully that mindset is changing.


if you put a decent automation controller in charge of Lutron (any Lutron), all of those features are easy.


----------



## Gloomy Goose

user12345678 said:


> I have sent a PM to him/her, but didn't get a response...
> 
> The most recent synopsis of my project can be found here. I didn't mention the specifics possible with RA2 there, but I have ported over all the past functionality. Plethora is in it's infancy, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it in ANY scenario (where IP, RS232 and/or IR protocol was available/could be learned/reverse engineered). I have Dynaudio Air monitors that use a proprietary protocol. I ended up reverse engineering the RS232 commands to integrate the speakers into my system...


Hello, can you please PM to me, i have a question regarding Dynaudio Air (TC-Link) protocol. Thank you!


----------



## spiwrx

Things are still pretty bleak in terms of Lutron availability. That's and personally get a lot of inquiries from Insteon customers looking to jump ship, or more like swim away, the ship already sunk. 

Likelihood of a Sunnata Hybrid is slim this year, since RR2 Hybrids are several months back ordered. We might see the dual processor feature open up later this year for RA3 but I wouldn't expect more than that. 

There was a new Caseta Dimmer profile leaked from the FCC files again. A lot of guessing what ti will really look like, but the style of the dimmers was always the biggest Caseta complaint, so anything should be an improvement. 

Plan early, expect to wait and be patient. Orders are getting filled, just talking quite a bit longer than we have become accustomed to.


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> Plan early, expect to wait and be patient. Orders are getting filled, just talking quite a bit longer than we have become accustomed to.


I'm entertained by the lutron shipping department with random boxes showing up every couple of weeks as they have been processing my [big] order... What's in this box this week? oh, a case of keypads.. and the next week? 2 picos.

As you said, plan early.. and enjoy the sporadic shipping.


----------



## spiwrx

Just a last minute reminder, Lutrons next scheduled price increase takes affect July 10th. Please get your orders in before. They said on average 8% increase but some of the RA parts are over 10% and some regular (non RF) stuff in unaffected. A lot of this stuff is back ordered weeks and months, but any orders prior to the 10th are locked in on pricing.


----------



## dragonian

spiwrx said:


> Just a last minute reminder, Lutrons next scheduled price increase takes affect July 10th. Please get your orders in before. They said on average 8% increase but some of the RA parts are over 10% and some regular (non RF) stuff in unaffected. A lot of this stuff is back ordered weeks and months, but any orders prior to the 10th are locked in on pricing.


What about shades?


----------



## spiwrx

Just an update on the current state of things Lutron from my perspective as a Lutron dealer. After the dust has mostly settled fom the July 10th price increase we are still seeing several items like PRO dimmers, Sensors and Hybrid keypads on substantial back order. Some of which breaching 15-16 weeks to 20+. For some reason it seems as if they are putting better effort in the RA3 and Caseta, which is seeing shorter times, though also back ordered. I've heard rumors of different reasons but none of them really matter, the reality is they're behind the ball and if it is on a track to recovery, it will take most of the following year to get caught up. Let me be clear, product is shipping and production is happening, just not in pace with demand. I don't have inside information in terms of the problems they are facing, but we have back orders, not only from Lutron, with dates reaching well into 2023 already. For my past present and future customer I really appreciate your orders and patience. Those of you that have been with us more than a year prior, you know this is not the normal state. Lutron continues to tease us with new product, it looks like a Diva styled Caseta is likely to pop up in the near future. As is their track record, items they want to get away from they price out to a point the alternative is more attractive. My specific example is the RA2 main repeater + connect bridge vs. RA3 processor. For now best I can say is plan ahead, expect not to get all product at once and if you are shopping product verify they have stock on hand. For us this is affecting even simple mechanical switches from Leviton, Outlets, etc... For those of you willing to wait and supporting us we really appreciate it.


----------



## Lindahl

spiwrx said:


> There was a new Caseta Dimmer profile leaked from the FCC files again. A lot of guessing what ti will really look like, but the style of the dimmers was always the biggest Caseta complaint, so anything should be an improvement.


That's exciting! The dimmer styling is the only reason I'm looking at RA2 Select. It's also why most DIY people I've talked to aren't interested in Lutron.


----------



## richardorser

I do apologize, but I see no way to begin a new thread in the Lutron RRa2 sub-forum.
I am hoping that one of you pros can tell me why I can no longer control my RRa2 system with my new phone.
I do NOT have a bridge so use an older version of the software 12.0.1
The android app I used on my old Google Pixel 3a XL was Lutron Home Control+ (ver. 9.15) and it worked flawlessly.
Now with my Google Pixel 6 Pro, that app (as downloaded from PlayStore) no longer works.
Any suggestions?
Thank you, Richard O


----------



## highnoon

richardorser said:


> I do apologize, but I see no way to begin a new thread in the Lutron RRa2 sub-forum.
> I am hoping that one of you pros can tell me why I can no longer control my RRa2 system with my new phone.
> I do NOT have a bridge so use an older version of the software 12.0.1
> The android app I used on my old Google Pixel 3a XL was Lutron Home Control+ (ver. 9.15) and it worked flawlessly.
> Now with my Google Pixel 6 Pro, that app (as downloaded from PlayStore) no longer works.
> Any suggestions?
> Thank you, Richard O


Lutron pulled this app from the Google play store


----------



## djp714

I currently have several GU24 base outdoor fixtures. I replaced the GU24 CFLs to GU24 LEDs and was planning to change the manual toggle switch to a RRD-PRO. Any issues with dimming such fixtures as long as the GU24 LEDs are dimmable? 

The only issue may be there's photosensors built into the outdoor fixtures and wonder if that would impact the Pro dimmers.


----------



## djp714

Any idea if there's a RA2 switch that can switch the heater on the Panasonic Whisperwarm? The heater requires a 20A switch but I don't think any of the RA2 switches (i.e RRD-8ANS or RRD-8S-DV) are rated for 20A. The exhaust fan is already on a lutron timer but would like to automate the heater if possible.


----------



## smoothtlk

djp714 said:


> Any idea if there's a RA2 switch that can switch the heater on the Panasonic Whisperwarm? The heater requires a 20A switch but I don't think any of the RA2 switches (i.e RRD-8ANS or RRD-8S-DV) are rated for 20A. The exhaust fan is already on a lutron timer but would like to automate the heater if possible.


just put the heater on a high amp relay and then switch that with a light duty RA2 switch - if RA2 control is even needed.


----------



## thebland

smoothtlk said:


> just put the heater on a high amp relay and then switch that with a light duty RA2 switch - if RA2 control is even needed.


Yep. Paul built one for me. Have my outdoor electric heaters controlled by a Pico RA2 remote and on my app. Lutron relay is on the upper left side to vary the power like a dimmer. Works very nice with each heater on a 60 amp breaker. Good for Michigan Fall football!


----------



## duckymomo

Any word on if they'll discontinue RA2? RA3 not having backlit keypads and only 4 buttons is a big deal for me, so I'm going to stick with RA2 for hopefully the next 10-15 years.


----------



## smoothtlk

thebland said:


> Yep. Paul built one for me. Have my outdoor electric heaters controlled by a Pico RA2 remote and on my app. Lutron relay is on the upper left side to vary the power like a dimmer. Works very nice with each heater on a 60 amp breaker. Good for Michigan Fall football!
> 
> View attachment 3334590
> View attachment 3334590


Nice looking box.


----------



## BillW

duckymomo said:


> Any word on if they'll discontinue RA2? RA3 not having backlit keypads and only 4 buttons is a big deal for me, so I'm going to stick with RA2 for hopefully the next 10-15 years.


The big deals for me: 1. there is no backlighting, only the side light 2 engraving has to be done when ordering 3. You cannot pop off the buttons and change to a different configuration. 

You can still use the SeeTouch keypads with Ra3.


----------



## thebland

BillW said:


> The big deals for me: 1. there is no backlighting, only the side light 2 engraving has to be done when ordering 3. You cannot pop off the buttons and change to a different configuration.
> 
> You can still use the SeeTouch keypads with Ra3.


Yes. I have a mixture of RA2 See touch keypads and Hybrids in my RA3 install. I also have a few RA3 keypads. All work together. I have to say that the RA2 Keypads look pretty dated next to theRa3 switches, dimmers and Keypads. ONce the RA3 Hybrids come out, I will get rid of all the RA2 See Touch.

They Ra3 pads look great and having RA2 in my home. I find the 5 and 6 button keypads a bit tedious.


----------



## DMILANI

Can you get those RA3 keypads engraved after the fact? Or will you just keep as 1,2,3 labels?


----------



## thebland

DMILANI said:


> Can you get those RA3 keypads engraved after the fact? Or will you just keep as 1,2,3 labels?


I have them. Just haven't been back to our place to install them. Here’s a couple of them.


----------



## spiwrx

RA3 Hybrid will be available in Gloss white only for pre-order later today on my website, first batch to ship January 2023. If you don't know message me.
Through Engraving you are able to adjust the finish color later.

The outdoor outlet is also up for pre-order and should ship sooner, hopefully in time for your Christmas lights.


----------



## spiwrx

We've recently started stocking and selling "Shelly" WiFi Relays, Dimmers, RGB, etc... I'm just wrapping up a project at my own home using 3 Shelly Dimmer2's to control my Kitchen Cabinet Lights off my RA2 Keypad (via Hubitat) So far it's working very well but not all the Shelly Devices are supported in Hubitat, namely my RGBW controller. But thats just for fun in my garage/game room and that does play well with Alexa.

I'll be adding the devices we stock to our website likely next week. And I'll post again w/ pictures when I get it buttoned up.

We've actually been supporting them most of the year, but it's starting to gain traction locally. And after Insteon issues early this year more & more people are inquiring. And I know have enough experience with them to give some assistance. 

If you don't know about Shelly, check out their website. Very reasonable priced, their app works well & fast and not terribly hard to get up on my RA system w/ Hubitat.
Shelly


----------



## spiwrx

This is a tangent to our Radio Ra topic but it involves Radio Ra and my initial and recent introduction to Shelly products and Hubitat. If you are interested or have suggestions please read below. 

So over the weekend I got my Shelly Dimmer2's Dialed into my Radio Ra Keypads and triggered by a couple other buttons and switches as well. All this through Hubitat. 
I did have a problem Triggering multiple Shelly Dimmers from 1 RA keypad button press. 1 of 3 of the lights would come on immediately and the second would lag by a solid 10-15 seconds. It kept logging a connection error but I suspected it was something else because it works flawless from Shelly APP and Alexa. The resolution was to introduce a delay between commands. I added 1 second (Hubitat Minimum) and now it works perfect, although with a slight lag. I will still play with triggering one on "button press" and the second on "button release" to see if that's a less noticeable delay. I can deal with the delay but I'm trying to trigger a 3rd yet populated Dimmer2 for Toekick lights as well. I guess I could also trigger one from the other. So I "trigger" Dimmer 2 by Dimmer 1 coming on and so forth. 

I was concerned that the unprogrammed Ra button wouldn't trigger but it worked fine. 

I'm doing this more as an exercise in Hubitat and Shelly, I had been using Hubitat for some other conditionals but this is something I'll use more daily. 
As for the Shelly Dimmer2 it is super easy to connect to it's own APP and was accepted by Alexa very easily as well. 
I'm controlling some LED shelf lights and eventually some Toekick lighting in the Kitchen as well. My Kitchen undercabinet lighting is retrofitted into some new shelves, old cabinets and new cabinets, so eventually when it's all installed I will have 3 Shelly Dimmer2's fed from 3 different circuits but all programmed to operate in unison off my Radio Ra 2 Keypad. 

I did have some stumbles on getting the Shelly on my Cox WiFi, it does both 5.0 & 2.4 but the Shelly seem to want the 2.4 and although it's supposed to just work as dual band, I had to separate them into 2 networks to get them onboard, but this is not the 1st time I've had this problem with "Cox Panoramic WiFi". Now all my 2.4 stuff is on it's own network, and most they are HA devices. 

Messy wiring is just temporary while I was testing and addressing the Dimmers (green). Although I like the Lever Nuts for testing I couldn't leave them in for installation. I just don't trust them yet. 

Shelves are 3.3w COB LED from DiodeLED, one of our own mounting channels for shelf / up light. 5watt for Undercabinet. 
Drivers are Mikrodim from DiodeLED.


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