# Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International Version of the Fengmi T1



## ProjectionHead

The new "Formovie Theater" a.k.a the Global Fengmi T1 has now been launched.

*








Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS - Formovie Formovie-Theater


#Formovie-Theater - Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS




www.projectorscreen.com




*
This is expected to be landing here in the USA mid-late June.

This new enhanced model comes with Android OS and a CMS that allows you much better fine tuning and adjustments.

We will be posting our comparison to the T1 later this week when back in the office and the legendary @Dave Harper will share his thoughts between the two.

Also very interested in some feedback from you AVSers regarding the new model, DM me if you want to get in early on this launch.

There is also another thread in a different sub-forum where pricing and special offers can be discussed as that is against the rules in these main subs:









Introducing the new Formovie Theater - International /...


** 6/30/22 - Our review by @Dave Harper is live: Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1) We are now taking pre-orders for the new Formovie Theater - the Global Version of the Fengmi T1 and are expecting our first shipment to land here in the USA mid-late June...




www.avsforum.com





There is no doubt that the Formovie/Fengmi does a really good job with low ADL content and has superior contrast to the other USTs we tested it against.
We didn’t hook up any external processors, HDFury, etc and only changed settings within the CMS.

Calibration was a real PITA with this unit compared to some others and the color reference points in the sweeps just couldn’t totally line up.

We previously put it up against the T1 and are trying to calibrate that unit. With its far more limited options, (picture mode & color temperature) calibration is not going as well as we’d like 

It certainly has its advantages over other comparably priced and more expensive units, but also has its disadvantages.

Overall, I’m impressed with the Formovie Theater, primarily the tone mapping and contrast.

Stay tuned for Dave’s feedback since he’s spent more time with both Fengmi units than I and will continue to do so over the next week+ and will explain his experience calibrating the units and why the International looks better in these photos, especially the black levels.

I’ve added a couple pics here post Dave’s calibration. T1 on left and International on right.

I feel as though out of the box the T1 had better black levels than it did post calibration.

Please keep in mind this experiment was based on accurately color calibrating the units.

There was some content that I preferred the over saturated colors on the T1 over the Theater with post calibration despite the image being less accurate.
















































**update 9/5/22
@Brajesh has started to put together a guide incorporating various settings, tips and links regarding the Formovie Theater. 
This document is organic and will be continually updated.
Big thanks to @Brajesh for putting this together!
Link: Fengmi Formovie Theater Settings & Reference Guide


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## rooterha

Woot!


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## BatmanNewsChris

They have a product page live on their website: Cinema in Your Living Room and Office


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## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> The new "Formovie Theater" a.k.a the Global Fengmi T1 has now been launched.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS - Formovie Formovie-Theater
> 
> 
> #Formovie-Theater - Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> This is expected to be landing here in the USA mid-late June.
> 
> This new enhanced model comes with Android OS and a CMS that allows you much better fine tuning and adjustments.
> 
> We will be posting our comparison to the T1 later this week when back in the office and the legendary @Dave Harper will share his thoughts between the two.
> 
> Also very interested in some feedback from you AVSers regarding the new model, DM me if you want to get in early on this launch.
> 
> There is also another thread in a different sub-forum where pricing and special offers can be discussed as that is against the rules in these main subs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing the new Formovie Theater - International /...
> 
> 
> ** 6/30/22 - Our review by @Dave Harper is live: Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1) We are now taking pre-orders for the new Formovie Theater - the Global Version of the Fengmi T1 and are expecting our first shipment to land here in the USA mid-late June...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no doubt that the Formovie/Fengmi does a really good job with low ADL content and has superior contrast to the other USTs we tested it against.
> We didn’t hook up any external processors, HDFury, etc and only changed settings within the CMS.
> 
> Calibration was a real PITA with this unit compared to some others and the color reference points in the sweeps just couldn’t totally line up.
> 
> We previously put it up against the T1 and are trying to calibrate that unit. With its far more limited options, (picture mode & color temperature) calibration is not going as well as we’d like
> 
> It certainly has its advantages over other comparably priced and more expensive units, but also has its disadvantages.
> 
> Overall, I’m impressed with the Formovie Theater, primarily the tone mapping and contrast.
> 
> Stay tuned for Dave’s feedback since he’s spent more time with both Fengmi units than I and will continue to do so over the next week+ and will explain his experience calibrating the units and why the International looks better in these photos, especially the black levels.
> 
> I’ve added a couple pics here post Dave’s calibration. T1 on left and International on right.
> 
> I feel as though out of the box the T1 had better black levels than it did post calibration.
> 
> Please keep in mind this experiment was based on accurately color calibrating the units.
> 
> There was some content that I preferred the over saturated colors on the T1 over the Theater with post calibration despite the image being less accurate.


So your international model comes with Dave’s calibration, right? Not a bad idea. Service through projectorscreen.com? Warranty?


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## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> So your international model comes with Dave’s calibration, right? Not a bad idea. Service through projectorscreen.com? Warranty?


Does not come with any calibration. We don’t know what screen or room a user will be in, in order to do it properly. Perhaps it’s something we will offer in future.
1 year warranty and follows our standard return policy.

edit: upgraded to 3 year warranty


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## tnaik4

So the international version has added full cms options and using android ?
Other than that is it the same as the chinese one ?
Cant one just install the aftermarket software to unlock the cms and just use a fire stick and save the money difference ?


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## tnaik4

Got to admit though, in the pictures shared the right one is significantly better in my opinion.


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## tnaik4

BatmanNewsChris said:


> They have a product page live on their website: Cinema in Your Living Room and Office


It does say 107% BT2020 , did they increase the gamut compared to the original T1 which does around 89% bt2020?
Would be great if they did.


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## rjyap

ProjectionHead said:


> Does not come with any calibration. We don’t know what screen or room a user will be in, in order to do it properly. Perhaps it’s something we will offer in future.
> 1 year warranty and follows our standard return policy.


If u could bundle a screen with T1 it’s possible to offer calibrated version. Great news for US potential buyers as this would be a unit to get if wanted a PnP version.


----------



## ProFragger

ProjectionHead said:


> The new "Formovie Theater" a.k.a the Global Fengmi T1 has now been launched.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS - Formovie Formovie-Theater
> 
> 
> #Formovie-Theater - Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> This is expected to be landing here in the USA mid-late June.
> 
> This new enhanced model comes with Android OS and a CMS that allows you much better fine tuning and adjustments.
> 
> We will be posting our comparison to the T1 later this week when back in the office and the legendary @Dave Harper will share his thoughts between the two.
> 
> Also very interested in some feedback from you AVSers regarding the new model, DM me if you want to get in early on this launch.
> 
> There is also another thread in a different sub-forum where pricing and special offers can be discussed as that is against the rules in these main subs:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Introducing the new Formovie Theater - International /...
> 
> 
> ** 6/30/22 - Our review by @Dave Harper is live: Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1) We are now taking pre-orders for the new Formovie Theater - the Global Version of the Fengmi T1 and are expecting our first shipment to land here in the USA mid-late June...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no doubt that the Formovie/Fengmi does a really good job with low ADL content and has superior contrast to the other USTs we tested it against.
> We didn’t hook up any external processors, HDFury, etc and only changed settings within the CMS.
> 
> Calibration was a real PITA with this unit compared to some others and the color reference points in the sweeps just couldn’t totally line up.
> 
> We previously put it up against the T1 and are trying to calibrate that unit. With its far more limited options, (picture mode & color temperature) calibration is not going as well as we’d like
> 
> It certainly has its advantages over other comparably priced and more expensive units, but also has its disadvantages.
> 
> Overall, I’m impressed with the Formovie Theater, primarily the tone mapping and contrast.
> 
> Stay tuned for Dave’s feedback since he’s spent more time with both Fengmi units than I and will continue to do so over the next week+ and will explain his experience calibrating the units and why the International looks better in these photos, especially the black levels.
> 
> I’ve added a couple pics here post Dave’s calibration. T1 on left and International on right.
> 
> I feel as though out of the box the T1 had better black levels than it did post calibration.
> 
> Please keep in mind this experiment was based on accurately color calibrating the units.
> 
> There was some content that I preferred the over saturated colors on the T1 over the Theater with post calibration despite the image being less accurate.


Hi Brian, 2 quick questions:

1. Have they fixed the out of focus issue on the top right of the screen in the international version? 

2. I noticed in your pictures that the Formovie logo light is always on vs. Not in the T1. Can you confirm, explain the behavior difference with the logo light? 

Thanks.


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## Demetri Zuev

Have they added any indication for HDR10 content when it starts playing? Or is it still only Dolby Vision mode that is clearly indicated by an icon?


----------



## rjyap

ProFragger said:


> Hi Brian, 2 quick questions:
> 
> 1. Have they fixed the out of focus issue on the top right of the screen in the international version?
> 
> 2. I noticed in your pictures that the Formovie logo light is always on vs. Not in the T1. Can you confirm, explain the behavior difference with the logo light?
> 
> Thanks.


China ver T1 soft focus on the corner is a non issue. Projectivity apps have expose an automatic focusing function that fixed it. Also some user still reported slight soft focus most likely due to uneven screen.


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## kraine

Soon in test on my blog


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## rjyap

kraine said:


> Soon in test on my blog


Can u compare to China ver 2.0 firmware on gamut measurement?


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## kraine

tnaik4 said:


> It does say 107% BT2020 , did they increase the gamut compared to the original T1 which does around 89% bt2020?
> Would be great if they did.


I don’t think so and if you look at ALPD4.0 spécifications from the manufacturer you can seen that they didn’t claim that they are able to reach 100% of rec.2020 Gamut.


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## kraine

rjyap said:


> Can u compare to China ver 2.0 firmware on gamut measurement?


No I didn’t have the chinese version anymore. The Formovie theater have a full CMS and Gain and Bias color température correction. Those options aren’t available on the T1.


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## rjyap

tnaik4 said:


> It does say 107% BT2020 , did they increase the gamut compared to the original T1 which does around 89% bt2020?
> Would be great if they did.


It’s great if it cover 100% but 90% of Rec2020 is really good compare to many more expensive projector such as JVC, Sony and Epson which can’t even cover 100% DCI-P3. With MadVR DTM + 3D LUT it could rival most of the projectors in the market except in those very low APL scene.


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## tnaik4

kraine said:


> I don’t think so and if you look at ALPD4.0 spécifications from the manufacturer you can seen that they didn’t claim that they are able to reach 100% of rec.2020 Gamut.


Hmm interesting, althought formovie claims 107% bt2020 on there latest page of the international version, i mean 107 is odly specific lol.
I m sure u ll get one to test, so i m waiting.
My only grip with the t1 was lack of cms/greyscal and not hitting 90% bt2020

Is it possible that with the inclusion of cms one can push the primaries out to reach bt2020?


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## tnaik4

rjyap said:


> It’s great if it cover 100% but 90% of Rec2020 is really good compare to many more expensive projector such as JVC, Sony and Epson which can’t even cover DCI-P3. With MadVR DTM + 3D LUT it could rival most of the projectors in the market except in those very low APL scene.


For sure, i use madvr/3dlut with lightspace.

But when most RGB USTs even exceed 100% bt2020 why should we settle for less. Its the main strength of RGB lasers.


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## kraine

tnaik4 said:


> Hmm interesting, althought formovie claims 107% bt2020 on there latest page of the international version, i mean 107 is odly specific lol.
> I m sure u ll get one to test, so i m waiting.
> My only grip with the t1 was lack of cms/greyscal and not hitting 90% bt2020
> 
> Is it possible that with the inclusion of cms one can push the primaries out to reach bt2020?


Formovie but not Approtronics (ALPD).


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## rjyap

tnaik4 said:


> For sure, i use madvr/3dlut with lightspace.
> 
> But when most RGB USTs even exceed 100% bt2020 why should we settle for less. Its the main strength of RGB lasers.


the measurement I done shown that the deficiency is on green. Blue and red is very close to the target. Currently the choices for tri-laser are 100% Rec 2020 but with contrast around 1000-1500:1 or T1 with 89% Rec 2020 but contrast around 3000:1. My choice would be on higher contrast as only a low percentage of movies that will utilize full range of wide color gamut. But if international version does 100% with functional CMS, then I would gladly paid the extra 500


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## tnaik4

rjyap said:


> the measurement I done shown that the deficiency is on green. Blue and red is very close to the target. Currently the choices for tri-laser are 100% Rec 2020 but with contrast around 1000-1500:1 or T1 with 89% Rec 2020 but contrast around 3000:1. My choice would be on higher contrast as only a low percentage of movies that will utilize full range of wide color gamut. But if international version does 100% with functional CMS, then I would gladly paid the extra 500


Yes i would definitely go for 3000:1 nad 89% bt2020, would be nice to get both though lol


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## ProjectionHead

ProFragger said:


> Hi Brian, 2 quick questions:
> 
> 1. Have they fixed the out of focus issue on the top right of the screen in the international version?
> 
> 2. I noticed in your pictures that the Formovie logo light is always on vs. Not in the T1. Can you confirm, explain the behavior difference with the logo light?
> 
> Thanks.


we kept light on to make iteasy to tell which unit is which since the housing is identical.

ddint have the focus issue like we did on the T1


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## ProjectionHead

rjyap said:


> If u could bundle a screen with T1 it’s possible to offer calibrated version. Great news for US potential buyers as this would be a unit to get if wanted a PnP version.


We could, but the room it’s going on plays a role in proper calibration. We’d have to see how long it takes for us to do the labor and what people are willing to pay for calibration to see if it’s something we can offer.
This unit is more labor intensive to calibrate than something like the PX1-Pro or AWOL LTV-3500.


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## heavyharmonies

Can I make a suggestion for the listings on your website? Please include a spec for projectors "3D Support" with a yes, no, or in development. While I can assume that since there is no mention of 3D there is no support for it, without any spec there is always the question in my mind "Is 3D not supported or did they just overlook it or forget to mention it?"

This is one of my pet peeves with a lot of different reviews and listings out there. I'll take the time to read or watch, see zero mention of 3D and come to the conclusion that it isn't supported, only to later discover that it is, but since that's not a major factor anymore that it gets glossed over.

A "3D Support: No" entry in specs saves the reader/shopper a lot of time.

Thanks.


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## clipghost

Would love to know gaming input lag on this as well please!


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## ProFragger

rjyap said:


> China ver T1 soft focus on the corner is a non issue. Projectivity apps have expose an automatic focusing function that fixed it. Also some user still reported slight soft focus most likely due to uneven screen.


I tried the auto focus guide, following the factory menu. Still doesn't focus 100% sharply on the top right. Can you share the steps you followed and maybe a picture please of your focus screen? 

Thank you!


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## ProFragger

ProjectionHead said:


> we kept light on to make iteasy to tell which unit is which since the housing is identical.
> 
> ddint have the focus issue like we did on the T1


Thanks Brian! There is a specific setting in the menu to permanently keep the logo light on/off? If so, do you recall what that navigation path was? 

Thanks again.


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## rooterha

ProFragger said:


> I tried the auto focus guide, following the factory menu. Still doesn't focus 100% sharply on the top right. Can you share the steps you followed and maybe a picture please of your focus screen?
> 
> Thank you!


Same - it doesn't. Top right is still a little off. Not noticeable when I'm using it though.


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## Remy.Alexander

$3k still a huge chunk- when the LS1100 is $4k yea no DV but no china bs to deal with if something goes wrong. Hisense has their DV PJS and they come with a screen- If its shown this can hang with the LS1100 or spank it this maybe my new PJ


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## ProFragger

rooterha said:


> Same - it doesn't. Top right is still a little off. Not noticeable when I'm using it though.


Thanks for reporting, let's keep reporting to Fengmi too. Not noticeable when watching, but man do I know it's there LOL!


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## humax

Remy.Alexander said:


> when the LS1100 is $4k yea no DV



No RGB laser either with the Epson. This is a choice for someone who wants DLP sharpness combined with tri-laser and a decent native contrast for this technology that allows for much less hazy dark scenes without the side effects of dynamic contrast management aka greyscale compression. Plus you get a pretty good embedded soundbar too, if you want to use it without an external sound system. It is a good all-rounder for the price. Chinese version is cheaper, but does not have an CMS, which ultimately you will need in order to achieve this unit's full potential.

In short, if one is tired of grey/hazy DLP blacks, this model is worthy of one's consideration. There may or may not be other better DLP native contrast options in the future, but this thing exists here and now.


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## Remy.Alexander

humax said:


> No RGB laser either with the Epson. This is a choice for someone who wants DLP sharpness combined with tri-laser and a decent native contrast for this technology that allows for much less hazy dark scenes without the side effects of dynamic contrast management aka greyscale compression. Plus you get a pretty good embedded soundbar too, if you want to use it without an external sound system. It is a good all-rounder for the price. Chinese version is cheaper, but does not have an CMS, which ultimately you will need in order to to achieve this unit's full potential.
> 
> In short, if one is tired of grey/hazy DLP blacks, this model is worthy of one's consideration. There may or may not be other better DLP native contrast options in the future, but this thing exists here and now.


You also have spekle and RBE with DLP- where the epson wont. I had a 3800 and for what it was the blacks were nice. the 1100 should be pretty darn good


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## humax

Remy.Alexander said:


> You also have spekle and RBE with DLP- where the epson wont. I had a 3800 and for what it was the blacks were nice. the 1100 should be pretty darn good



You are right on this one. I should have mentioned it for objectivity reasons. Speckle I guess will be an issue for most. RBE also for quite a few. Personally, I have never seen it on any DLP I have owned, so the though of RBE did not even cross my mind. As for Epson, nobody said it is a bad choice, just not RGB laser and DLP sharp. Nothing wrong with that.


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## DesertDog

Remy.Alexander said:


> $3k still a huge chunk- when the LS1100 is $4k yea no DV but no china bs to deal with if something goes wrong. Hisense has their DV PJS and they come with a screen- If its shown this can hang with the LS1100 or spank it this maybe my new PJ


The LS11000 is also a different beast than this due to the throw distances. With the room constraints I have I could get maybe a 90" screen with the epson but it would probably be between 85-90". With this one I can do a 120" screen. So for my use case it's an easy pick.


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## Remy.Alexander

humax said:


> You are right on this one. I should have mentioned it for objectivity reasons. Speckle I guess will be an issue for most. RBE also for quite a few. Personally, I have never seen it on any DLP I have owned, so the though of RBE did not even cross my mind. As for Epson, nobody said it is a bad choice, just not RGB laser and DLP sharp. Nothing wrong with that.


If this can present no RBE for me it be worth it- but i sometimes have a laser eye. Trying to find a NON million dollar screen that helps with spekle. I know there is a list on AVS somewhere I cant find it anymore. I have a 7'X12' wall I want to slap a 120-150" on but the prices of alr are just way way way to much


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## Ricoflashback

How is the upscaling from 1080p to 4K with these Fengmi T1's? I usually run everything through my AVR but since we're moving and then looking for a house, my home theater won't be setup as usual. I'm not sure how much of a difference the international T1 version will be but the Android interface will be a welcome change. I suspect English menus, as well?


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## Ricoflashback

Remy.Alexander said:


> If this can present no RBE for me it be worth it- but i sometimes have a laser eye. Trying to find a NON million dollar screen that helps with spekle. I know there is a list on AVS somewhere I cant find it anymore. I have a 7'X12' wall I want to slap a 120-150" on but the prices of alr are just way way way to much


If you're that sensitive to RBE and "speckle," then I'd look at other alternatives. Maybe the Epson LS12000 or the new, lower end, Sony model.


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## Zhang Xinglong

Ricoflashback said:


> If you're that sensitive to RBE and "speckle," then I'd look at other alternatives. Maybe the Epson LS12000 or the new, lower end, Sony model.


Sorry but what is RBE?


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## Zhang Xinglong

kraine said:


> Formovie but not Approtronics (ALPD).


I thought they belong to the same company?


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## mas2k

Zhang Xinglong said:


> Sorry but what is RBE?


RainBowEffect


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## kraine

Nope. They are of course partners but not the same company.



About Appotronics - APPOTRONICS


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## 3sprit

humax said:


> As for Epson, nobody said it is a bad choice, just not RGB laser and DLP sharp. Nothing wrong with that.


It is RGB laser: EH-LS500B Android TV Edition | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia


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## Zhang Xinglong

kraine said:


> Nope. They are of course partners but not the same company.
> 
> 
> 
> About Appotronics - APPOTRONICS


oh i thought feng mi belongs to appotronics... logo same same


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## humax

3sprit said:


> It is RGB laser: EH-LS500B Android TV Edition | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia



I believe he is referring to this model.

V11HA48020 | Home Cinema LS11000 4K PRO-UHD Laser Projector | Home Cinema | Projectors | For Home | Epson US

My understanding is this is a 3LCD panel-blue laser model. Even the 25000$ JVC 8K shifter is not RGB laser. In fact, if someone knows of a consumer long throw RGB model, do chime in.


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## humax

3sprit said:


> It is RGB laser: EH-LS500B Android TV Edition | Home Cinema | Videoproiettori | Prodotti | Epson Italia




Vincent from HDTV Test was not impressed with this unit. Underwhelming contrast and DCI-P3 color gamut coverage 80%/ Rec.2020 61%. This is nowhere near the quality of their long throw models.

(3) Epson LS500 4K Ultra Short-Throw Laser Projector Review - YouTube


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## Ricoflashback

Loaded question but is the International T1 model the exact same hardware as the current, Chinese T1 version? Are the menus automatically set to English?


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## ACE844

Ricoflashback said:


> Loaded question but is the International T1 model the exact same hardware as the current, Chinese T1 version? Are the menus automatically set to English?


Reportedly the hardware has less capable specs than the CN variant and the menus are in English.


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## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Loaded question but is the International T1 model the exact same hardware as the current, Chinese T1 version? Are the menus automatically set to English?


According to the preliminary info I got, the Theater has less storage and RAM than the T1. I have another meeting with Formovie next week and @Dave Harper has our Theater unit with him for the next 4 days to start working on his review. Hope to have more info to publish shortly


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## Dave Harper

Demetri Zuev said:


> Have they added any indication for HDR10 content when it starts playing? Or is it still only Dolby Vision mode that is clearly indicated by an icon?


Yes it shows the Dolby Vision logo when you play Dolby Vision and it says HDR10 when the unit is just plain HDR10.



rjyap said:


> It’s great if it cover 100% but 90% of Rec2020 is really good compare to many more expensive projector such as JVC, Sony and Epson which can’t even cover 100% DCI-P3. With MadVR DTM + 3D LUT it could rival most of the projectors in the market except in those very low APL scene.


I discovered that this unit has pretty amazing DTM, i.e. dynamic tone mapping. I played The Meg and Aquaman in plain-vanilla HDR10 and it tone mapped as well as anything I’ve seen as far as taming the over bright blooming in the clouds in chapter 8 of the Meg or in the giant octagonal window behind king Orem in chapter 6 of Aquaman. So far what I’m seeing is it kind of negates the need for my HDFury LLDV solution!



rjyap said:


> the measurement I done shown that the deficiency is on green. Blue and red is very close to the target. Currently the choices for tri-laser are 100% Rec 2020 but with contrast around 1000-1500:1 or T1 with 89% Rec 2020 but contrast around 3000:1. My choice would be on higher contrast as only a low percentage of movies that will utilize full range of wide color gamut. But if international version does 100% with functional CMS, then I would gladly paid the extra 500


I agree and would take a little lower percentage of BT 2020 color gamut with higher contrast than some of these units with over 100% and less than 2000 to 1 contrast. I should be able to share my calibration impressions hopefully soon. As Brian said above I have the unit here with me and I may not bring it back ha ha!



Remy.Alexander said:


> $3k still a huge chunk- when the LS1100 is $4k yea no DV but no china bs to deal with if something goes wrong. Hisense has their DV PJS and they come with a screen- If its shown this can hang with the LS1100 or spank it this maybe my new PJ


You won’t have to deal with China BS because projectorscreen.com will most likely be selling these for the US market.

After seeing this and the Epson LS11000 and 12000 I am thinking I would rather have this overall! Keep in mind this is just initial impressions so far with only a few hours experience watching and tweaking.




humax said:


> No RGB laser either with the Epson. This is a choice for someone who wants DLP sharpness combined with tri-laser and a decent native contrast for this technology that allows for much less hazy dark scenes without the side effects of dynamic contrast management aka greyscale compression. Plus you get a pretty good embedded soundbar too, if you want to use it without an external sound system. It is a good all-rounder for the price. Chinese version is cheaper, but does not have an CMS, which ultimately you will need in order to achieve this unit's full potential.
> 
> In short, if one is tired of grey/hazy DLP blacks, this model is worthy of one's consideration. There may or may not be other better DLP native contrast options in the future, but this thing exists here and now.


And it definitely doesn’t have gray hazy blacks compared to it’s direct competition that’s for sure!

My one gripe with this model and the Chinese version is that it seems like they are using a cheap lens compared to many other USTs. No matter how much I use the focus adjustment it just never seems to get razor sharp like the AWOL or recently reviewed LGHU915QE units.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Yes it shows the Dolby Vision logo when you play Dolby Vision and it says HDR10 when the unit is just plain HDR10.
> 
> 
> 
> I discovered that this unit has pretty amazing DTM, i.e. dynamic tone mapping. I played The Meg and Aquaman in plain-vanilla HDR10 and it tone mapped as well as anything I’ve seen as far as taming the over bright blooming in the clouds in chapter 8 of the Meg or in the giant octagonal window behind king Orem in chapter 6 of Aquaman. So far what I’m seeing is it kind of negates the need for my HDFury LLDV solution!
> 
> I agree and would take a little lower percentage of BT 2020 color gamut with higher contrast than some of these units with over 100% and less than 2000 to 1 contrast. I should be able to share my calibration impressions hopefully soon. As Brian said above I have the unit here with me and I may not bring it back ha ha!
> 
> You won’t have to deal with China BS because projectorscreen.com will most likely be selling these for the US market.
> 
> After seeing this and the Epson LS11000 and 12000 I am thinking I would rather have this overall! Keep in mind this is just initial impressions so far with only a few hours experience watching and tweaking.
> 
> And it definitely doesn’t have gray hazy blacks compared to it’s direct competition that’s for sure!
> 
> My one gripe with this model and the Chinese version is that it seems like they are using a cheap lens compared to many other USTs. No matter how much I use the focus adjustment it just never seems to get razor sharp like the AWOL or recently reviewed LGHU915QE units.


Thanks for all your hard work, Dave. I’m debating between the Chinese version (NothingButLabel) with a three year warranty (repair or exchange) versus the International T1 (I’m more comfortable purchasing through Brian) with a one year warranty but at a higher cost plus sales tax. And, from my understanding, you still have to ship the unit back to China for any repairs.

If the hardware is superior with the Chinese version and everything else is somewhat equal (contrast being the most important) the Android interface, while nice, isn’t a big deal to me since I stream with the Nvidia Shield Pro and maybe adding the new Roku. (I wish I could find a way to default the shield to SDR only but that’s another story). Looking forward to your reviews of the International T1.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Is the International version the first UST with frame by frame DTM? Or is it just scene DTM? The fact that it can handle that Aquaman scene and the ultra bright "The Meg" is amazing. 

@Dave Harper what about notoriously dark HDR movies like Solo? Some of the snow scenes and when Han meets Chewy are almost unwatchable without good DTM.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Thanks for all your hard work, Dave. I’m debating between the Chinese version (NothingButLabel) with a three year warranty (repair or exchange) versus the International T1 (I’m more comfortable purchasing through Brian) with a one year warranty but at a higher cost plus sales tax. And, from my understanding, you still have to ship the unit back to China for any repairs.
> 
> If the hardware is superior with the Chinese version and everything else is somewhat equal (contrast being the most important) the Android interface, while nice, isn’t a big deal to me since I stream with the Nvidia Shield Pro and maybe adding the new Roku. (I wish I could find a way to default the shield to SDR only but that’s another story). Looking forward to your reviews of the International T1.


I’m working with Formovie to see if a longer warranty period can be offered as well as a USA service center.🤞


----------



## 3sprit

humax said:


> Vincent from HDTV Test was not impressed with this unit.











Test Epson EH-LS500B : l'avis de Grégory - Mondoprojos.fr


TEST EPSON EH-LS500B/W L'édition 2019 du salon IFA de Berlin aura dévoilé peu de nouveaux modèles de vidéoprojecteurs. Parmi eux se trouve néanmoins un projecteur à ultra-courte focale laser chez Epson. Conscient de l'évolution du marché de la vidéoprojection et des attentes des consommateurs...




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Dave Harper

Casey_Bryson said:


> Is the International version the first UST with frame by frame DTM? Or is it just scene DTM? The fact that it can handle that Aquaman scene and the ultra bright "The Meg" is amazing.
> 
> @Dave Harper what about notoriously dark HDR movies like Solo? Some of the snow scenes and when Han meets Chewy are almost unwatchable without good DTM.


It certainly seems like a dynamic frame by frame but I would have to do more testing critically to see if it only changes with each scene but to me it seems like each frame. The only one I tested so far that is super dark is blade runner 2049 and it looked amazing, not dark at all! I am pretty impressed to say the least!

are there any good scenes to check to try to verify whether it is by frame or by scene? I’m going to check the movie arrival because that is a very dark movie as well.


----------



## humax

3sprit said:


> Test Epson EH-LS500B : l'avis de Grégory - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> TEST EPSON EH-LS500B/W L'édition 2019 du salon IFA de Berlin aura dévoilé peu de nouveaux modèles de vidéoprojecteurs. Parmi eux se trouve néanmoins un projecteur à ultra-courte focale laser chez Epson. Conscient de l'évolution du marché de la vidéoprojection et des attentes des consommateurs...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr



We are getting way off topic. This is a 2019 tri-LCD, not a tri-laser unit. Native contrast 1269:1, 56% ΒΤ2020. Decent first try, but I am sure Epson will do better next time with UST.


----------



## ProjectionHead

humax said:


> … I am sure Epson will do better next time with UST.


Stay tuned……


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Yes it shows the Dolby Vision logo when you play Dolby Vision and it says HDR10 when the unit is just plain HDR10.
> 
> I discovered that this unit has pretty amazing DTM, i.e. dynamic tone mapping. I played The Meg and Aquaman in plain-vanilla HDR10 and it tone mapped as well as anything I’ve seen as far as taming the over bright blooming in the clouds in chapter 8 of the Meg or in the giant octagonal window behind king Orem in chapter 6 of Aquaman. So far what I’m seeing is it kind of negates the need for my HDFury LLDV solution!
> 
> I agree and would take a little lower percentage of BT 2020 color gamut with higher contrast than some of these units with over 100% and less than 2000 to 1 contrast. I should be able to share my calibration impressions hopefully soon. As Brian said above I have the unit here with me and I may not bring it back ha ha!


Since I have one on order from you guys this is great to hear.  

Not needing the HDFury LLDV solution is nice. Are you using one in your testing to make any other adjustments though? I already have a Diva so I'd be interested to see if you used an HDFurry for any adjustments outside of the T1 itself and what settings you used on it once you're done.


----------



## Zhang Xinglong

Dave Harper said:


> Yes it shows the Dolby Vision logo when you play Dolby Vision and it says HDR10 when the unit is just plain HDR10.
> 
> 
> 
> I discovered that this unit has pretty amazing DTM, i.e. dynamic tone mapping. I played The Meg and Aquaman in plain-vanilla HDR10 and it tone mapped as well as anything I’ve seen as far as taming the over bright blooming in the clouds in chapter 8 of the Meg or in the giant octagonal window behind king Orem in chapter 6 of Aquaman. So far what I’m seeing is it kind of negates the need for my HDFury LLDV solution!
> 
> 
> 
> I agree and would take a little lower percentage of BT 2020 color gamut with higher contrast than some of these units with over 100% and less than 2000 to 1 contrast. I should be able to share my calibration impressions hopefully soon. As Brian said above I have the unit here with me and I may not bring it back ha ha!
> 
> 
> 
> You won’t have to deal with China BS because projectorscreen.com will most likely be selling these for the US market.
> 
> After seeing this and the Epson LS11000 and 12000 I am thinking I would rather have this overall! Keep in mind this is just initial impressions so far with only a few hours experience watching and tweaking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it definitely doesn’t have gray hazy blacks compared to it’s direct competition that’s for sure!
> 
> My one gripe with this model and the Chinese version is that it seems like they are using a cheap lens compared to many other USTs. No matter how much I use the focus adjustment it just never seems to get razor sharp like the AWOL or recently reviewed LGHU915QE units.


as compared to the older chinese T1?


----------



## Zhang Xinglong

DesertDog said:


> Since I have one on order from you guys this is great to hear.
> 
> Not needing the HDFury LLDV solution is nice. Are you using one in your testing to make any other adjustments though? I already have a Diva so I'd be interested to see if you used an HDFurry for any adjustments outside of the T1 itself and what settings you used on it once you're done.


since its full android with netflix, disney enabled, is there still any benefits for external processing like an apple tv?


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Dave Harper said:


> I discovered that this unit has pretty amazing DTM, i.e. dynamic tone mapping. I played The Meg and Aquaman in plain-vanilla HDR10 and it tone mapped as well as anything I’ve seen as far as taming the over bright blooming in the clouds in chapter 8 of the Meg or in the giant octagonal window behind king Orem in chapter 6 of Aquaman. So far what I’m seeing is it kind of negates the need for my HDFury LLDV solution!


That's awesome! Chapter 6 of Aquaman is my HDR stress test too. The Hisense projectors don't have DTM and you can't see a thing in that scene.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> My one gripe with this model and the Chinese version is that it seems like they are using a cheap lens compared to many other USTs. No matter how much I use the focus adjustment it just never seems to get razor sharp like the AWOL or recently reviewed LGHU915QE units.


Can you post a photo using sharpness test pattern and zoom in on white text over black blackground? My unit is very sharp so could be I strike a lottery unit. Very minimum fringing and no CA from corner to corner.

I’m surprise u found that T1 have DTM that’s pretty good. I’m using MadVR so never try passthrough HDR.


----------



## aerodynamics

ProjectionHead said:


> Stay tuned……


----------



## DesertDog

Zhang Xinglong said:


> since its full android with netflix, disney enabled, is there still any benefits for external processing like an apple tv?


Yes, no, maybe, I don't know  

I don't have the projector yet so I can't say how it performs. I'm going to assume it's on par with smart tvs and to me they under perform compared to an AppleTV (ATV). They just don't have the same horse power. Generally I'm using 2 boxes these days. An ATV for the streaming services, youtube, etc. and a Zidoo Z9X for local streaming of my rip collection. I also have a Shield hooked up but don't use it much since I got the z9x. It was mainly filling that roll before.

It's gotten better lately but historically the ATV also had the best app support from the different streaming services. They were the first boxes getting support for DV and other new tech. I know the Shield version lagged way behind for a long time. There's also been some bitrate comparisons between the boxes and the ATVs usually get the highest rate. I'm not sure why other then maybe the services throttling bitrates if they know the processor can't handle it. That's speculation though.


----------



## Zhang Xinglong

L


DesertDog said:


> Yes, no, maybe, I don't know
> 
> I don't have the projector yet so I can't say how it performs. I'm going to assume it's on par with smart tvs and to me they under perform compared to an AppleTV (ATV). They just don't have the same horse power. Generally I'm using 2 boxes these days. An ATV for the streaming services, youtube, etc. and a Zidoo Z9X for local streaming of my rip collection. I also have a Shield hooked up but don't use it much since I got the z9x. It was mainly filling that roll before.
> 
> It's gotten better lately but historically the ATV also had the best app support from the different streaming services. They were the first boxes getting support for DV and other new tech. I know the Shield version lagged way behind for a long time. There's also been some bitrate comparisons between the boxes and the ATVs usually get the highest rate. I'm not sure why other then maybe the services throttling bitrates if they know the processor can't handle it. That's speculation though.


Lol I stuck with atv cos iPhone could link and type easily when searching for stuff 

I guess their in-house processor and software is fully optimised for the optimum horsepower to process the streams… I use my pc to local stream via the Apple TV seems ok so far


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> Since I have one on order from you guys this is great to hear.
> 
> Not needing the HDFury LLDV solution is nice. Are you using one in your testing to make any other adjustments though? I already have a Diva so I'd be interested to see if you used an *HDFurry* for any adjustments outside of the T1 itself and what settings you used on it once you're done.


HDFurry? Must be a new device! 









I actually also discovered that DV mode in this is a lot darker than straight HDR10 for some reason, resulting in lower contrast as well. 

So I’m thinking it’s best to keep the HDFury in line to do LLDV with HDR10 metadata so the projector uses its HDR mode instead of its DV mode due to this. Subjectively so far it looked better. 




Zhang Xinglong said:


> as compared to the older chinese T1?


I only have the Global version with me and can’t test that yet. Maybe next week when I am back in the office. 



rjyap said:


> Can you post a photo using sharpness test pattern and zoom in on white text over black blackground? My unit is very sharp so could be I strike a lottery unit. Very minimum fringing and no CA from corner to corner.
> 
> I’m surprise u found that T1 have DTM that’s pretty good. I’m using MadVR so never try passthrough HDR.


I’ll see what I can do. Hopefully I have more time with it over the weekend.


----------



## Brajesh

Thanks for your impressions so far. You mention Global version doing DTM well (possibly even frame-by-frame)... I'd expect T1 does so as well?


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> Thanks for your impressions so far. You mention Global version doing DTM well (possibly even frame-by-frame)... I'd expect T1 does so as well?


----------



## whiskthecat

I lost track of the 300 page T1 thread. Can anyone tell me if they ever managed to fix the HDMI handshaking issue that requires the user to manually flip between HDMI revisions in the menu occasionally? Either with a firmware update or if only in this new global version.


----------



## rooterha

whiskthecat said:


> I lost track of the 300 page T1 thread. Can anyone tell me if they ever managed to fix the HDMI handshaking issue that requires the user to manually flip between HDMI revisions in the menu occasionally? Either with a firmware update or if only in this new global version.


No.


----------



## Brajesh

@Dave Harper , getting a broken image link with what you replied.


----------



## ProFragger

@Dave Harper - thanks for all your hard work. Speaking of HDFury in the chain, did you ever document your HDFury settings with the Chinese T1? If so, could you share your T1 and HDFury settings with the community 😇? Thanks!


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> @Dave Harper , getting a broken image link with what you replied.


It’s just an “I don’t know” emoji. 













ProFragger said:


> @Dave Harper - thanks for all your hard work. Speaking of HDFury in the chain, did you ever document your HDFury settings with the Chinese T1? If so, could you share your T1 and HDFury settings with the community ? Thanks!


I don’t recall using the HDFury when I played with the T1.


----------



## ProFragger

Dave Harper said:


> It’s just an “I don’t know” emoji.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t recall using the HDFury when I played with the T1.


Got it. And how about the Global version?


----------



## ProFragger

whiskthecat said:


> I lost track of the 300 page T1 thread. Can anyone tell me if they ever managed to fix the HDMI handshaking issue that requires the user to manually flip between HDMI revisions in the menu occasionally? Either with a firmware update or if only in this new global version.


It's better with the 2.0 update, but once in a while, it does toggle back...


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

@Dave Harper 
In the AWOL thread, you noted that, _"It’s (International T1) definitely better than the Chinese version, but not near as good as the AWOL yet. After calibration, the image is very dark because you have to really crank down the blue and green, which attribute to brightness."_

Is this something that can be ameliorated via the color controls on the Custom Dolby Data Vision Block settings in the HDFury? Clearly I'm a complete noob here, so sorry if this is a ridiculous proposition, but wondering if the blue and green can be attenuated in the DV Vision Block settings without impacting the brightness, or perhaps to a lesser degree. Seems unlikely, but figured it was worth asking.


----------



## tnaik4

@Dave Harper sorry to ask my friend, i know u might be too busy, but any eta on ur review/opinion about the international Fengmi T1, i m extreemly interested in it and waiting for ur valued opinion.


----------



## humax

Formovie Theatre vs Fengmi T1, Global version vs China version - YouTube 

Formovie Theatre vs Fengmi T1, Global version vs China version (Nothing by Label comparison).


----------



## tnaik4

humax said:


> Formovie Theatre vs Fengmi T1, Global version vs China version - YouTube
> 
> Formovie Theatre vs Fengmi T1, Global version vs China version (Nothing by Label comparison).


Look similar, but nothing helpful sadly, what we really need to know is if the chinese version + mod to unlock cms/greyscale is practically the same as the global version.
And of course if the golbal version has dtm in it from what Dave is suspecting.
Other than that if its just more cms , one can get the chinese and update the mod to get the cms and save money.
I think Dave is acheiveing better contrast on the Global version mainly because its calibratable.
We ll have to wait and see.


----------



## Demetri Zuev

Is there any specific release date for the US? NothingButLabel keeps telling me that "the international version has not been announced yet" and they asked me to extend the order fulfillment window twice already. Just want to have some point of reference


----------



## humax

Demetri Zuev said:


> Is there any specific release date for the US? NothingButLabel keeps telling me that "the international version has not been announced yet" and they asked me to extend the order fulfillment window twice already. Just want to have some point of reference



Their Alibaba site is quoting an expected delivery date from 19/8 to 9/9.


----------



## humax

tnaik4 said:


> Look similar, but nothing helpful sadly, what we really need to know is if the chinese version + mod to unlock cms/greyscale is practically the same as the global version.
> And of course if the golbal version has dtm in it from what Dave is suspecting.
> Other than that if its just more cms , one can get the chinese and update the mod to get the cms and save money.
> I think Dave is acheiveing better contrast on the Global version mainly because its calibratable.
> We ll have to wait and see.



To my eyes the global version has a lower black floor and toned-down color, but also a darker image and black crushing. I am assuming they have both units calibrated for this demo video.

As for CMS unlocking in the Chinese version, I don't think it is possible since there is no full CMS to unlock even in the service menu though Projectivity Tools. It seems they have added the CMS settings just for the global version. Software flashing of the T1 would be required and honestly I don't see it happening anytime soon or at all, so I believe we cannot afford to be cunning in order to save the extra dough.


----------



## tnaik4

humax said:


> To my eyes the global version has a lower black floor and toned-down color, but also a darker image and black crushing. I am assuming they have both units calibrated for this demo video.
> 
> As for CMS unlocking in the Chinese version, I don't think it is possible since there is no full CMS to unlock even in the service menu though Projectivity Tools. It seems they have added the CMS settings just for the global version. Software flashing of the T1 would be required and honestly I don't see it happening anytime soon or at all, so I believe we cannot afford to be cunning in order to save the extra dough.


I thought the Projectivity tools unlocks the cms, bummer....
Its a shame they just ommit key features like that that can be easily added.
Hopefully the Global version isnt 2-3months away.


----------



## ProjectionHead

humax said:


> To my eyes the global version has a lower black floor and toned-down color, but also a darker image and black crushing. I am assuming they have both units calibrated for this demo video.


Color may look toned down, but that is only because it was able to be calibrated. If one prefers the over saturation; you can still do so on the Global. I didn't notice any black crushing, but @Dave Harper has spent more time with it than I and can comment more on that. He is working on an in-depth review of the Global and then we will get into it vs the T1 sometime soon.


----------



## Dave Harper

Scott Rosenberg said:


> @Dave Harper
> In the AWOL thread, you noted that, _"It’s (International T1) definitely better than the Chinese version, but not near as good as the AWOL yet. After calibration, the image is very dark because you have to really crank down the blue and green, which attribute to brightness."_
> 
> Is this something that can be ameliorated via the color controls on the Custom Dolby Data Vision Block settings in the HDFury? Clearly I'm a complete noob here, so sorry if this is a ridiculous proposition, but wondering if the blue and green can be attenuated in the DV Vision Block settings without impacting the brightness, or perhaps to a lesser degree. Seems unlikely, but figured it was worth asking.


No that’s not possible. All the HDFURY is doing is telling the source what color points the (spoofed) display uses so it sends them in the proper way. 



tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper sorry to ask my friend, i know u might be too busy, but any eta on ur review/opinion about the international Fengmi T1, i m extreemly interested in it and waiting for ur valued opinion.





ProjectionHead said:


> Color may look toned down, but that is only because it was able to be calibrated. If one prefers the over saturation; you can still do so on the Global. I didn't notice any black crushing, but @Dave Harper has spent more time with it than I and can comment more on that. He is working on an in-depth review of the Global and then we will get into it vs the T1 sometime soon.


I turned in my copy of the review last week. So now it’s just waiting on publishing. 



tnaik4 said:


> ….
> And of course *if the golbal version has dtm *in it from what Dave is suspecting.


Oh, it does! 



tnaik4 said:


> …..I think Dave is acheiveing better contrast on the Global version mainly because its calibratable.
> We ll have to wait and see…..


Actually since you have to Clamp down the green and blue so much, it takes a lot off the top end while the black floor stays relatively the same, so the contrast ratio lowers some iirc.


----------



## antjes

Dave Harper said:


> Oh, it does!


Just curiosity, how do you know DTM is working?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> I turned in my copy of the review last week. So now it’s just waiting on publishing.


Don’t get everyone too excited over here; Formovie is sending us a new unit since we had some issues with the focus on our “advance” unit.

This new one is “retail” and part of the production run on the way to is right now from China. Was tested ahead of time and I reviewed pics to confirm focus is right.

You’re gonna have to calibrate this one and do your review all over again


----------



## m0j0

ProjectionHead said:


> Don’t get everyone too excited over here; Formovie is sending us a new unit since we had some issues with the focus on our “advance” unit.
> 
> This new one is “retail” and part of the production run on the way to is right now from China. Was tested ahead of time and I reall pics to confirm focus is right.
> 
> You’re gonna have to calibrate this one and do your review all over again


So, no review/settings then?


----------



## ProjectionHead

m0j0 said:


> So, no review/settings then?


Have to see if the “retail” model that will be available to customers is same as our advance unit before we publish. Review of what is available to public is what’s important.
I don’t expect any major differences; if anything the retail model will be better.


----------



## Dave Harper

antjes said:


> Just curiosity, how do you know DTM is working?


By playing this scene from the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark disc mastered at 10,000 nits HDR10 and it not being completely blown out. 












ProjectionHead said:


> Don’t get everyone too excited over here; Formovie is sending us a new unit since we had some issues with the focus on our “advance” unit.
> 
> This new one is “retail” and part of the production run on the way to is right now from China. Was tested ahead of time and I reall pics to confirm focus is right.
> 
> You’re gonna have to calibrate this one and do your review all over again


----------



## m0j0

ProjectionHead said:


> Have to see if the “retail” model that will be available to customers is same as our advance unit before we publish. Review of what is available to public is what’s important.
> I don’t expect any major differences; if anything the retail model will be better.


That is understandable. How about the previous calibration testing on the Chinese Model T1?


----------



## antjes

Dave Harper said:


> By playing this scene from the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark disc mastered at 10,000 nits HDR10 and it not being completely blown out.


So in my understanding, in the last tab "demo material" you are selecting HDR10 10000 BT2020.
But in the first tab "configuration" how mant nits for luminance you select?
Thanks Dave

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Casey_Bryson

antjes said:


> So in my understanding, in the last tab "demo material" you are selecting HDR10 10000 BT2020.
> But in the first tab "configuration" how mant nits for luminance you select?
> Thanks Dave
> 
> Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


Calculate your setup for Foot Lamberts: 








Projector Calculator


Projector calculator finds the optimum viewing distance and throw distance for a specific screen size.




www.omnicalculator.com





Then convert to nits





Convert Foot-lambert to Nit


Instant free online tool for foot-lambert to nit conversion or vice versa. The foot-lambert [fL] to nit [nt] conversion table and conversion steps are also listed. Also, explore tools to convert foot-lambert or nit to other luminance units or learn more about luminance conversions.




www.unitconverters.net





likely around 100-300 nits if your screen is 100" or 120" depending on gain of your screen and lumens output from your projector


----------



## Dave Harper

antjes said:


> So in my understanding, in the last tab "demo material" you are selecting HDR10 10000 BT2020.
> But in the first tab "configuration" how mant nits for luminance you select?
> Thanks Dave
> 
> Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


It didn’t matter. It tone mapped no matter which I selected. 



Casey_Bryson said:


> Calculate your setup for Foot Lamberts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Projector Calculator
> 
> 
> Projector calculator finds the optimum viewing distance and throw distance for a specific screen size.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.omnicalculator.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then convert to nits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Convert Foot-lambert to Nit
> 
> 
> Instant free online tool for foot-lambert to nit conversion or vice versa. The foot-lambert [fL] to nit [nt] conversion table and conversion steps are also listed. Also, explore tools to convert foot-lambert or nit to other luminance units or learn more about luminance conversions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.unitconverters.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> likely around 100-300 nits if your screen is 100" or 120" depending on gain of your screen and lumens output from your projector


I believe he’s talking about which selection on the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark disc, not trying to calculate his actual display’s nits or luminance.


----------



## antjes

Dave Harper said:


> It didn’t matter. It tone mapped no matter which I selected.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe he’s talking about which selection on the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark disc, not trying to calculate his actual display’s nits or luminance.


Thanks.
Dave you are right, I only need to know about Spears&Munsil menu. Anycase thanks all.
If I select that with my Oppo in HDR auto then I burn whites. 
But I disvovered something interesting, If I select in Oppo the HDR option "strip metadata (display must apply custom HDR processing)", then there is a kind of dinamic mapping, I can select any kind of nits and It tone mapped. 
But OPPO shows on the output SDR 4K BT2020, maybe an Oppo expert can clarify.
Ps. I'm using T1 chinese version

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Dave Harper

antjes said:


> Thanks.
> Dave you are right, I only need to know about Spears&Munsil menu. Anycase thanks all.
> If I select that with my Oppo in HDR auto then I burn whites.
> But I disvovered something interesting, If I select in Oppo the HDR option "strip metadata (display must apply custom HDR processing)", then there is a kind of dinamic mapping, I can select any kind of nits and It tone mapped.
> But OPPO shows on the output SDR 4K BT2020, maybe an Oppo expert can clarify.
> Ps. I'm using T1 chinese version
> 
> Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


You’re welcome. 

It appears to be tone mapped but it’s in actuality just the raw signal without the metadata associated with it to tell the display how to handle it properly. 

This is why your display shows it as SDR, because it doesn’t see the metadata to tell it to apply its HDR mode. It’s the same as when we send an LLDV signal to a display that doesn’t do that natively. We have to add HDR metadata to the signal so the display goes into its HDR mode to show the signal properly. 

I’ve been playing with this recently, quite a lot actually. The peak luminance setting also comes into play on the Oppo. The issues arise when you set one source signal, say one at 1,000 nits, to a certain level like 500 in the Oppo. All looks great but then if you play a much higher nit signal like The Meg, then the 500 nit setting doesn’t work right anymore since that one was mastered much higher so the luminance and chroma levels aren’t accounted for at that level. 

This is actually the opposite of dynamic tone mapping. You’d have to ride the luminance setting for each source you play. 

I’ve been experimenting with this and an Atomos Ninja V and its various pro HDR curves it can apply from the likes of Sony, Panasonic, etc. I’ve also tried it through the HDFury Vertex2. I still haven’t found that perfect combo unfortunately. Hopefully there is one!


----------



## ProjectionHead

They are on the way to me in the USA


----------



## ProjectionHead

m0j0 said:


> That is understandable. How about the previous calibration testing on the Chinese Model T1?


I don’t know if Dave recorded anything regarding the t1, but we do plan on getting into it vs the Global sometime soon and will include Dave’s settings. That being said, you’ve spent more time playing with the T1 than we have (and almost everyone else) and if I was starting from scratch I’d be asking YOU for your settings


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> They are on the way to me in the USA


Just to clarify you wording, has the ship landed and they're moving across country to you now? The way you said it I'm can read it as they're on the way to the US or that they're on their way to you within the US. You know which one I'm hoping for.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Just to clarify you wording, has the ship landed and they're moving across country to you now? The way you said it I'm can read it as they're on the way to the US or that they're on their way to you within the US. You know which one I'm hoping for.


Not in the USA yet but either on the docks in China to be loaded or on the water already. I can possibly have some units shipped by air but that will cost a couple hundred of dollars more. I just emailed them for shipping price for expedited air shipping.
I have a couple dozen units coming in by air as well and are expected to land within 2 weeks, shipping out from China likely on Monday.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> Not in the USA yet but either on the docks in China to be loaded or on the water already. I can possibly have some units shipped by air but that will cost a couple hundred of dollars more. I just emailed them for shipping price for expedited air shipping.


No worries. I was just curious to the state since I was reading it multiple ways.


----------



## Diego Arno

Hi guys, Any news regarding the international version ETA for resellers in the US and EU ?


----------



## kraine

Mi-juillet.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Diego Arno said:


> Hi guys, Any news regarding the international version ETA for resellers in the US and EU ?


There is a container on way to me in USA by sea and a smaller shipment about to be loaded on a plane for quicker arrival. Expecting to have ready for customers in less than 2 weeks.
We can also have it drop shipped directly to those in the EU from China.


----------



## kraine

Good news, it will be available in Europe next week. I will receive mine this friday or the next monday. Review will soon follow.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> Good news, it will be available in Europe next week. I will receive mine this friday or the next monday. Review will soon follow.


Bonjour, Gregory. Allez-vous partager votre rapport ici?


----------



## Aztar35

Gregory, will you be sharing a link to your review with us here?


----------



## kraine

Sure, but it will be available on my blog here :






Mondoprojos.fr


Tous les tests de vidéoprojecteurs




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> Sure, but it will be available on my blog here :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Tous les tests de vidéoprojecteurs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


That's a very nice website and blog.. I will have to translate. French is not my strongest of languages and definitely not as good as my wife's, whose French is 100%/perfect. 

I'd like to see you make some comparisons to the Xiaomi Laser C2, please. From what I've read about the foreign version of the Fengmi T1, it appears the Laser C2 is superior to that one in some regards, like sharpness, DV application/mapping, and lack of speckle. The Laser C2 has a little better contrast, and inferably better black levels. After calibration, I measured it at 3,649:1. And the Laser C2 was more "plug-n-play." I know when you did your review with PHC, you gave the Laser C2 two awards but gave only one to the Fengmi T1. 😊 But in fairness, I believe that was before the T1 had some FW updates. Of course, the T1 has much wider color capability and is spec'd brighter.

You know I'm a fan of your reviews, and I'm looking forward to this one on this new international version of the T1.


----------



## 3sprit

Aztar35 said:


> I will have to translate


All the reviews are in french and english. 😉


----------



## tnaik4

Aztar35 said:


> That's a very nice website and blog.. I will have to translate. French is not my strongest of languages and definitely not as good as my wife's, whose French is 100%/perfect.
> 
> I'd like to see you make some comparisons to the Xiaomi Laser C2, please. From what I've read about the foreign version of the Fengmi T1, it appears the Laser C2 is superior to that one in some regards, like sharpness, DV application/mapping, and lack of speckle. The Laser C2 has a little better contrast, and inferably better black levels. After calibration, I measured it at 3,649:1. And the Laser C2 was more "plug-n-play." I know when you did your review with PHC, you gave the Laser C2 two awards but gave only one to the Fengmi T1. 😊 But in fairness, I believe that was before the T1 had some FW updates. Of course, the T1 has much wider color capability and is spec'd brighter.
> 
> You know I'm a fan of your reviews, and I'm looking forward to this one on this new international version of the T1.


If i m not mistaken, Kraine liked the picture of the T1 more than the C2 but his most complaint was that it requires a constant tinkering and not plug and play.
Lets see if the Global version fixed it, its also like $500-600 more than the chinese which can be had even lower if u look around.


----------



## Aztar35

3sprit said:


> All the reviews are in french and english. 😉


That's great.


----------



## 3sprit

Kraine complained about the “speckle”.
I would like him to try the T1 on a normal screen (not on an ALR screen…).


----------



## kraine

This type of projector must be combined with an CLR screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

kraine said:


> This type of projector must be combined with an CLR screen.


I've got a bit of a different opinion on this.

In a well lit room, absolutely a CLR screen is ideal; however they are limited to 120" in size right now for a good lenticular.

If you want to go above 120" and/or are in a more dedicated viewing space without a need for ALR, a low gain option like the Stewart Tiburon (like @Aztar35 is using with his C2) or Greymatte 0.7 will work well. You'll have harsher ceiling reflections with a non CLR type screen, but in a well treated room that may not be such a problem.

That all being said, speckle is still visible regardless of screen type.


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> I've got a bit of a different opinion on this.
> 
> In a well lit room, absolutely a CLR screen is ideal; however they are limited to 120" in size right now for a good lenticular.
> 
> If you want to go above 120" and/or are in a more dedicated viewing space without a need for ALR, a low gain option like the Stewart Tiburon (like @Aztar35 is using with his C2) or Greymatte 0.7 will work well. You'll have harsher ceiling reflections with a non CLR type screen, but in a well treated room that may not be such a problem.
> 
> That all being said, speckle is still visible regardless of screen type.


Yes, that's precisely so, Brian. While with the Laser C2, there's zero speckle, I did see speckle with the RGB tri-lasers and I doubt any screen can cure that 100%. 

But now on the conventional screen surfaces, you are the expert. And you know that I found several advantages to using the smooth surface of a conventional throw quality projector screen, like say a Stewart Tiburon: minimal to zero sparkle/shimmer artifacts, possible wider viewing angle, better color accuracy, and here's the biggest and perhaps the most important one for me --increased sharpness. The lack of/ or minimal screen texture offers up outstanding pixel definition reflections.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> This type of projector must be combined with an CLR screen.


Hi, Gregory. If you can get it into one of your dark rooms, try to compare it using ALR and conventional screen, smooth surface with some negative gain.


----------



## kraine




----------



## kraine




----------



## Dave Harper

Aztar35 said:


> Hi, Gregory. If you can get it into one of your dark rooms, try to compare it using ALR and conventional screen, smooth surface with some negative gain.





kraine said:


>


Well that’s less than an ideal room!


----------



## kraine

The perfect room for a CLR screen and an UST projector


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> Well that’s less than an ideal room!


Maybe for testing, but it will show how good of an image you can get from one of these USTs paired with a proper CLR type screen in a well lit environment.


----------



## kraine

After calibration in Laser night Mode (lowest mode) : 1678 lumens, 6431K with 1,79 DeltaE, 2.2 Gamma and 3626:1 native contrast (a new record for a DLP triple laser projector). Gamut "only" 89,5% rec.2020


----------



## kraine

With the very good and effective new tools (3 axes CMS, Gain and Bias color corrections) it was very simple to corrected the colors wich are more naturals than the T1.

New menu options for Dolby Vision you can choose the size and the gain of your screen.

For the Gamers : HDMI 2.1 with ALLM and low lag options


----------



## Aztar35

Dave Harper said:


> Well that’s less than an ideal room!


I suppose he's right then; he needs an ALR screen for that one.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> With the very good and effective new tools (3 axes CMS, Gain and Bias color corrections) it was very simple to corrected the colors wich are more naturals than the T1.
> 
> New menu options for Dolby Vision you can choose the size and the gain of your screen.
> 
> For the Gamers : HDMI 2.1 with ALLM and low lag options


Is the tone mapping more consistent with this one? In other words, is this more like the Laser C2 for plug and play and going from memory, how would you say the sharpness compares. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> After calibration in Laser night Mode (lowest mode) : 1678 lumens, 6431K with 1,79 DeltaE, 2.2 Gamma and *3626:1 native contrast* (a new record for a DLP triple laser projector). Gamut "only" 89,5% rec.2020


Very nice! That's Laser C2 territory for UST contrast; and with the wider gamut, this T1 may give more of an HK effect, so I expect it to look more contrasty than the Laser C2.



kraine said:


> After calibration in Laser night Mode (lowest mode) : 1678 lumens, 6431K with 1,79 DeltaE, 2.2 Gamma and *3626:1 native contrast* (a new record for a DLP triple laser projector). *Gamut "only" 89,5% rec.2020*


It still covers 100% of DCI-P3 though, correct? There is limited content that extends beyond DCI-P3, and for the content that does, how much of it and far into BT2020 do they go anyway?


----------



## rjyap

Aztar35 said:


> Yes, that's precisely so, Brian. While with the Laser C2, there's zero speckle, I did see speckle with the RGB tri-lasers and I doubt any screen can cure that 100%.
> 
> But now on the conventional screen surfaces, you are the expert. And you know that I found several advantages to using the smooth surface of a conventional throw quality projector screen, like say a Stewart Tiburon: minimal to zero sparkle/shimmer artifacts, possible wider viewing angle, better color accuracy, and here's the biggest and perhaps the most important one for me --increased sharpness. The lack of/ or minimal screen texture offers up outstanding pixel definition reflections.


I concur with this observation in my fully light treated HT room. Sharpness and pixel definition is so good on smooth conventional projection long throw screen. Although my screen is 1.0 neutral white screen, I don't observed any annoying laser speckle.


----------



## jnation

Aztar35 said:


> It still covers 100% of DCI-P3 though, correct? *There is limited content that extends beyond DCI-P3, and for the content that does, how much of it and far into BT2020 do they go anyway?*


That might be a valid observation today, although ArrowAV (and IIRC Javs) had made the observation that there was more > DCI-P3 content out there than might be supposed. In any event there is potential for a "build it and they will come" outcome here. Content developers are more likely to create/support content for > DCI-P3 gamut with affordable QD-OLED TVs and UST projectors now supporting 80-90% of BT2020. 

For me at least, a tolerable contrast ratio, along with 80-90% of BT2020, has me considering UST projectors again for the future after having ruled them out 6-9 months ago. I've been seriously underwhelmed with the overall capabilities of the latest JVC, Sony and Epson laser front projectors, especially at their price points. So a good UST, at a rational price point, might be an excellent bridging option for the next few years since technology seems to be developing quite rapidly in USTs and OLED panels.


----------



## Aztar35

rjyap said:


> I concur with this observation in my fully light treated HT room. Sharpness and pixel definition is so good on smooth conventional projection long throw screen. Although my screen is 1.0 neutral white screen, I don't observed any annoying laser speckle.


That's great. And I also think how much projecting those pixels from inches away helps retain good integrity as opposed to shooting the image from across the room through air particles like humidity and floating dust particles, however mild.


----------



## Mikenificent1

ProjectionHead said:


> That all being said, speckle is still visible regardless of screen type.


Yes, but a CLR adds sparklies, texture, and non uniformity on top of speckle.


----------



## Mikenificent1

kraine said:


> The perfect room for a CLR screen and an UST projector


No, a UST and CLR screen are perfect for that room, not the other way around. Big difference. A bat cave would still improve the picture quality of a CLR and UST, just as turning off the lights does.


----------



## Aztar35

jnation said:


> That might be a valid observation today, although ArrowAV (and IIRC Javs) had made the observation that there was more > DCI-P3 content out there than might be supposed. In any event there is potential for a "build it and they will come" outcome here. Content developers are more likely to create/support content for > DCI-P3 gamut with affordable QD-OLED TVs and UST projectors now supporting 80-90% of BT2020.
> 
> For me at least, a tolerable contrast ratio, along with 80-90% of BT2020, has me considering UST projectors again for the future after having ruled them out 6-9 months ago. I've been seriously underwhelmed with the overall capabilities of the latest JVC, Sony and Epson laser front projectors, especially at their price points. So a good UST, at a rational price point, might be an excellent bridging option for the next few years since technology seems to be developing quite rapidly in USTs and OLED panels.


Oh no doubt. It has been shown that there is content that exceeds P3. The thing is has it been shown to extend to full 2020?



jnation said:


> For me at least, a tolerable contrast ratio, along with 80-90% of BT2020, has me considering UST projectors again for the future after having ruled them out 6-9 months ago. *I've been seriously underwhelmed with the overall capabilities of the latest JVC, Sony and Epson laser front projectors*, especially at their price points. So a good UST, at a rational price point, might be an excellent bridging option for the next few years since technology seems to be developing quite rapidly in USTs and OLED panels.


I've had different brands of conventional throw projectors and still like my current Laser C2 among the most. If this new international T1 with the wider color, now measured by Kraine to show similar sequential contrast performance to what I measured my Laser C2 after some calibration, turns out to be as sharp, that would be fantastic.


----------



## rjyap

jnation said:


> That might be a valid observation today, although ArrowAV (and IIRC Javs) had made the observation that there was more > DCI-P3 content out there than might be supposed. In any event there is potential for a "build it and they will come" outcome here. Content developers are more likely to create/support content for > DCI-P3 gamut with affordable QD-OLED TVs and UST projectors now supporting 80-90% of BT2020.
> 
> For me at least, a tolerable contrast ratio, along with 80-90% of BT2020, has me considering UST projectors again for the future after having ruled them out 6-9 months ago. I've been seriously underwhelmed with the overall capabilities of the latest JVC, Sony and Epson laser front projectors, especially at their price points. So a good UST, at a rational price point, might be an excellent bridging option for the next few years since technology seems to be developing quite rapidly in USTs and OLED panels.


That's exactly why I go for DLP tri-laser UST in dedicated HT room using conventional screen. Can't justify the price for JVC and Sony for not using tri-laser in their latest laser projector and to achieve close to DCI-P3 color, would need additional filters in the light path which further reduce the light output. A good HDR projector should have both wide color gamut and color volume.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

Mikenificent1 said:


> Yes, but a CLR adds sparklies, texture, and non uniformity on top of speckle.


 You keep saying this and it's just not true. Total BS.


----------



## kraine

Casey_Bryson said:


> You keep saying this and it's just not true. Total BS.


Totally Agree with you Casey, this is a false affirmation.

About the Theater it has less speckle and a much better color accuracy comparing to the T1 that I have reviewed (but with the older firmware).

On the other side the picture look soft comparing to the T1 or the Xiaomi C2, maybe an effect of the anti-speckle option.


----------



## kraine

By the way, there is no need to tamper with Dolby Vision and HDR with the Theater (Fury module or others). The projector stands on its own.


----------



## kraine




----------



## kraine

HDR-10 and Dolby Vision


----------



## tnaik4

kraine said:


>


Maybe its the camera but the top picture still look like it has a red push on the skin in my opinion, colors dont look very natural unless the movie is like that or its the camera.


----------



## kraine

Wich natural references are we talking about ? This is the effect of almost 90% of rec.2020. It’s a « little bit » more saturated then rec.709 colors .


----------



## tnaik4

kraine said:


> Wich natural references are we talking about ? This is the effect of almost 90% of rec.2020. It’s a « little bit » more saturated then rec.709 colors .


even if its 100% bt2020,if its calibrated it should use the colors it needs and not oversaturate them, maybe i m spoiled by MadVR, i never tried a triple laser ust though, they might function differently.


----------



## kraine

The color temperature after calibration is ideally positioned with a deltaE gap below the eye's perception (1.79). For the rest, the extremely wide Gamut is far from the HDTV references.


----------



## kraine

You can see that the results in terms of colorimetry are better than those of the T1 and without the headache !









Test Fengmi Formovie T1 : l'avis de Grégory. - Mondoprojos.fr


Depuis plusieurs années maintenant je suis de près l’évolution du marché de la vidéoprojection et la part de plus en plus importante prise par les projecteurs à ultra courte focale. Ce domaine est dominé à l’international par Xiaomi et sa société rivale mais néanmoins proche Fengmi. Depuis 2017...




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Ricoflashback

I’m getting confused here. So what screen is best? A CLR screen like the Aeon CLR screen or an ALR screen? I know in a bat cave you have other alternatives but in a room with some light and very little light at night (but not darkened walls, etc.,) - what’s the verdict?

Also - I’m not a fan of ceiling reflections so that needs to be minimized.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Also - Bluetooth connection available with the International version as I’ll need to use headphones at night?


----------



## kraine

Ricoflashback said:


> I’m getting confused here. So what screen is best? A CLR screen like the Aeon CLR screen or an ALR screen? I know in a bat cave you have other alternatives but in a room with some light and very little light at night (but not darkened walls, etc.,) - what’s the verdict?
> 
> Also - I’m not a fan of ceiling reflections so that needs to be minimized.



CLR is an obligation with UST projectors, they are made to avoid any light concentration (hot spot).


----------



## 3sprit

kraine said:


> On the other side the picture look soft comparing to the T1 or the Xiaomi C2, maybe an effect of the anti-speckle option.


We will wait for the comparison with AWOL Vision LTV-2500 and LTV-3500 😎


----------



## humax

tnaik4 said:


> Maybe its the camera but the top picture still look like it has a red push on the skin in my opinion, colors don't look very natural unless the movie is like that or its the camera.



I have seen this at my local cinema, when it first came out and if I remember correctly after all these years, it did have the red-face/burned skin look, so this is probably due to the original photography. Lots of 80's movies were shot that way.


----------



## humax

Formovie Theater UST Projector is A Sincere Product with Many Advanced Setting Options - YouTube

Demo set of Formovie Theater Google TV version.


----------



## Aztar35

tnaik4 said:


> Maybe its the camera but the top picture still look like it has a red push on the skin in my opinion, colors dont look very natural unless the movie is like that or its the camera.


Agreed. On my monitor, intra-scene contrast in that Mad Max still looks great but the image that T1 comes off as a bit cartoonish and unnatural, the same observation from it for Aquaman. I'll have to see more pics.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> HDR-10 and Dolby Vision


Hi. Is motion in this version of the T1 defaulted to 60hz processing or is it 24hz?

Also, for frame interpolation, does the machine allow you to customize FI in increments? --like say the Hisense PX1-Pro allows that from 1-5 for blur and 1-5 for judder. If it does, that would be so great.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> You can see that the results in terms of colorimetry are better than those of the T1 and without the headache !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Fengmi Formovie T1 : l'avis de Grégory. - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Depuis plusieurs années maintenant je suis de près l’évolution du marché de la vidéoprojection et la part de plus en plus importante prise par les projecteurs à ultra courte focale. Ce domaine est dominé à l’international par Xiaomi et sa société rivale mais néanmoins proche Fengmi. Depuis 2017...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Edited.


----------



## 3sprit

That is the review of the Chinese version, the review of the "global" version has yet to be published. 😉


----------



## Aztar35

3sprit said:


> That is the review of the Chinese version, the review of the "global" version has yet to be published. 😉


Thanks. I'll Edit my post. 

Hopefully, the new T1 review will be published soon.


----------



## kraine

Aztar35 said:


> Hi. Is motion in this version of the T1 defaulted to 60hz processing or is it 24hz?
> 
> Also, for frame interpolation, does the machine allow you to customize FI in increments? --like say the Hisense PX1-Pro allows that from 1-5 for blur and 1-5 for judder. If it does, that would be so great.


No like all DMD projectors 0,47 XPR it converted 24p to 60hz (same for Hisense) this is why MEMC is important. The Theater has 3 levels and middle and high levels works well to eliminate judder.


----------



## Mikenificent1

kraine said:


> Totally Agree with you Casey, this is a false affirmation.
> .


You don’t think a CLR screen has more sparklies, screen texture, and is less uniform than a matte white screen??? No wonder the only thing you ever talk about is your measurements, because clearly you’re blind then.

Learn how to measure the uniformity of a screen and put a magnifying glass up to both screens (people with normal eyesight don’t need a magnifying glass, but clearly you do). You will see CLR is less sharp, has more texture, and has sparklies compared to a matte white screen. Any PROFESSIONAL reviewer (not you), would concur. 

It’s one thing for a noob to say that is false, but for a supposed reviewer to say it and then have other forum members believe it, deserves harsh criticism.


----------



## kraine

Aztar35 said:


> Here you mentioned a contrast ratio of 3629:1 but the review shows 2975:1 as best calibrated. Was the higher figure you reported here not usable there for practical purposes?


2975:1 is for the T1 (chinese version), 3626:1 after calibration is the Formovie Theater (international version). 

So now I'm out I have a review to made and to write.


----------



## ProjectionHead

3sprit said:


> We will wait for the comparison with AWOL Vision LTV-2500 and LTV-3500 😎


Coming soon… 
… as are a “couple” units of the Theater










We’ll have our full review of the Formovie Theater published hopefully on Monday as well


----------



## 3sprit

*Test Fengmi Formovie T1 vs. Formovie Theater 🙂*
The update you say refers to this*:
👇👇👇👇👇👇👇👇







*


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I’m getting confused here. So what screen is best? A CLR screen like the Aeon CLR screen or an ALR screen? I know in a bat cave you have other alternatives but in a room with some light and very little light at night (but not darkened walls, etc.,) - what’s the verdict?
> 
> Also - I’m not a fan of ceiling reflections so that needs to be minimized.


A “regular” ALR screen is not compatible with UST due to its angular reflective properties. If you want any ALR with a UST then you need a CLR type of screen.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> No like all DMD projectors 0,47 XPR it converted 24p to 60hz (same for Hisense) this is why MEMC is important. The Theater has 3 levels and middle and high levels works well to eliminate judder.


Sounds good. One of the things I liked with the Hisense and Samsung was the ability to fine tune Frame Interpolation in increments. Hopefully, there isn't too much soap opera effect on the global verion with FI on.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> 2975:1 is for the T1 (chinese version), 3626:1 after calibration is the Formovie Theater (international version).
> 
> So now I'm out I have a review to made and to write.


3Sprit pointed that out too. I edited my post above to correct. Thanks.


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> By the way, there is no need to tamper with Dolby Vision and HDR with the Theater (Fury module or others). The projector stands on its own.


Have you also measured DV mode and found it to be a lot less bright than standard HDR10? I have so that’s why I recommend using an HDFURY to send LLDV to HDR10 version of DV, to take advantage of the brighter image while maintaining the blacks. 



tnaik4 said:


> Maybe its the camera but the top picture still look like it has a red push on the skin in my opinion, colors dont look very natural unless the movie is like that or its the camera.





kraine said:


> Wich natural references are we talking about ? This is the effect of almost 90% of rec.2020. It’s a « little bit » more saturated then rec.709 colors .





tnaik4 said:


> even if its 100% bt2020,if its calibrated it should use the colors it needs and not oversaturate them, maybe i m spoiled by MadVR, i never tried a triple laser ust though, they might function differently.


Exactly!!! They should look the same of calibrated properly. 



3sprit said:


> We will wait for the comparison with AWOL Vision LTV-2500 and LTV-3500


I can tell you now. That’s easy. AWOL will be much brighter after calibration and be so much more accurate in about every way. 

The only thing T1 has is better contrast and black floor. If AWOL improved its black levels to over 3,000:1 it would easily be the best UST around. 

So the decision comes down to which you value more.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> The only thing T1 has is better contrast and black floor.


And a very substantial lower price as well. AWOL-3500 MSRP is $5,500 vs $3,000 of the Theater.
The AWOL is still available at a introductory promo price right now, but that too is still considerably more than the Theater.

@Dave Harper has lit candles, played Barry White and been mashing these two projectors together in hopes they make a baby with the best traits of both.


----------



## kraine

Dave Harper said:


> Have you also measured DV mode and found it to be a lot less bright than standard HDR10? I have so that’s why I recommend using an HDFURY to send LLDV to HDR10 version of DV, to take advantage of the brighter image while maintaining the blacks.


Maybe on the T1 but not on my Theater Version.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> And a very substantial lower price as well. AWOL-3500 MSRP is $5,500 vs $3,000 of the Theater.
> 
> The AWOL is still available at a introductory promo price right now, but that too is still considerably more than the Theater.
> 
> @Dave Harper has lit candles, played Barry White and been mashing these two projectors together in hopes they make a baby with the best traits of both.






kraine said:


> Maybe on the T1 but not on my Theater Version.


That’s weird. It was the Theater version for me. I’ll retest when we get our replacement.


----------



## 3sprit

Dave Harper said:


> I’m can tell you now. That’s easy. AWOL will be much brighter after calibration and be so much more accurate in about every way.


Which model? The T1 should be compared to the 2500, not the 3500.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> I’m can tell you now. That’s easy. AWOL will be much brighter after calibration and be so much more accurate in about every way.
> 
> The only thing T1 has is better contrast and black floor. If AWOL improved its black levels to over 3,000:1 it would easily be the best UST around.
> 
> So the decision comes down to which you value more.


That’s like saying “It only has a better engine and gas mileage. Otherwise, the other car is the best around.” I hear that the new AWOL UST will be named “Deserter” and will be available in the fall.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> That’s like saying “It only has a better engine and gas mileage. Otherwise, the other car is the best around.” I hear that the new AWOL UST will be named “Deserter” and will be available in the fall.


I’ll take the car with the higher safety rating, more room for my family, nicer interior and better handling than the one with better mileage and a better engine I may not need.
To each their own on what most important with a car, or a projector.


----------



## kraine

The Formovie Theater test is online. You will find the English translation at the bottom of the article. Have a good reading.









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## humax

kraine said:


> The Formovie Theater test is online. You will find the English translation at the bottom of the article. Have a good reading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr



Dear Gregory, thank you again for your input. I bought my first UST (a Philips Screeneo 2510) about six years ago, after reading your opinion on it and will probably do the same now for its replacement. What I like most about your reviews is that you use the same room and exact same testing procedure every time, which gives me the reader a point of reference and a quite clear perspective on quality differences between various projector models. Keep up the good work!

PS1. Was your Theater version a pre-production unit? It has been mentioned in this thread that production units will have improved focus.

PS2. So, this will also come out as a Wemax version and rebadged in the coming months for a major company with at least one DLP model in its catalogue? Dare I guess the company in question is JVC or am I way off base in my assumption?


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> The Formovie Theater test is online. You will find the English translation at the bottom of the article. Have a good reading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Great review. That's a huge problem for me that the Fengmi Theater is not as sharp as the other DLP USTs you referenced or the Xiaomi Laser C2, or even its predecessor, the Fenmgi T1. One of the main reasons I prefer DLP over Lcos is for line precision and that sharpness offered up especially by single chip displays. If sequential contrast is really the main attraction for this one over the others or wide color over the Laser C2 but sans the sharpness your review noted, I would rather just go back to Lcos like a JVC or keep the C2.

Of course, we have the tri lasers and the gigantic difference in prices between those new JVCs and this Fengmi Theater, but I just mention this due to the fact that you found the Fengmi Theater to be relatively soft is a disappointment for me.

Thanks for your work and sharing your review with us.


----------



## Aztar35

humax said:


> PS1. Was your Theater version a pre-production unit? It has been mentioned in this thread that production units will have improved focus.


But if it's the machine's de-speckle platform, I don't know how much sharper.

I wonder if there's a way to turn that off or control it to regain sharpness.


----------



## kraine

Aztar35 said:


> But if it's the machine's de-speckle platform, I don't know how much sharper.
> 
> I wonder if there's a way to turn that off or control it to regain sharpness.


It's just a supposition but I have seen difference between shaprness and speckle between the T1 and the Theater, this is why I'm asking me if it might be related.


----------



## kraine

Many thanks Humax, I will .

PS1 : No it's a normal commercial version.

PS2 : I can't give the Brand name for the moment but you already know that it's one major projector brand .


----------



## Ricoflashback

The softness of the picture would certainly be a concern for me. Even with a lower end BenQ TK700STi - - the picture was razor sharp. No where near the black floor, however. 

So does the original Xiaomi C2 still have that sharper picture? Would one still consider the International T1 a better buy? I don't see any alternatives out there with the black levels and contrast that the T1 has.


----------



## MDesigns

kraine said:


> The Formovie Theater test is online. You will find the English translation at the bottom of the article. Have a good reading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Thank you for the great review!

One technical question about the gamut measurement -> Do you know if the software(which is it btw?) you use counts the "out of gamut" parts of the measured gamut to the final number? Is the 89,5 % of Rec2020 the part measured from inside the the Rec2020 or the projectors full gamut size compared in volume only?

The Rec709 and DCI-P3 numbers point to the way it could count the out of gamut results also. The measurement should imo be less than 100 % or 100 %, not over it. If I remember correctly I have seen measurements done with the same software(and another projector) show over 100%, but when looking at the diagram it clearly misses one of the corners so it should be below 100%. In this case the gamut was big enough in volume, but in the wrong place.

Thanks!


----------



## kraine

As is often the case in projection, everything is a matter of compromise. The Formovie theater offers a long list of strengths and one area for improvement.


----------



## JackB

So did Dave’s work and Brian’s brief experience with the Formovie agree with Kraine’s conclusion about the softness of the image? Was there enough difference to say it was a bad sample. If image softness is a firmware problem as has been stated previously, then the problem should be solvable.

But then, to complicate the issue, it was mentioned previously that it could be two criteria being turned up to much so as to cause the image to turn soft.

Before pulling the trigger on this projector I think I would like to feel comfortable that the soft image problem is fixed.


----------



## Aztar35

JackB said:


> But then, to complicate the issue, it was mentioned previously that it could be two criteria being turned up to much so as to cause the image to turn soft.
> 
> Before pulling the trigger on this projector I think I would like to feel comfortable that the soft image problem is fixed.


Right; is this a fluke sample or are we to expect a softer looking DLP image from a single chip design? DLP+soft would be a no, no for me.

I said something similar above. To summarize, if I wanted a little more of a softer look, I would just go with a three chip LCD or LCos. Even on an older JVC, like on the NX line, the sequential contrast is going to be better and the ones with filters can do DCI-P3, keeping in mind the amount of content graded beyond DCI-P3 is still more limited.


----------



## Dave Harper

JackB said:


> So did Dave’s work and Brian’s brief experience with the Formovie agree with Kraine’s conclusion about the softness of the image?…….


Yes……

But we will not conclude this until we see the new sample that was just sent to us.


----------



## DesertDog

I'm reading through @kraine's review now. He wrote in it "despite the absence of a DTM (Dynamic Tone Mapping)..." in it. @Dave Harper earlier in the thread stated that he though it had it. Is there anything definitive from Formovie on the feature?


----------



## rjyap

kraine said:


> It's just a supposition but I have seen difference between shaprness and speckle between the T1 and the Theater, this is why I'm asking me if it might be related.


Can you do a simple test to check if this is the focus adjustment issue? Try to pull your projector either nearer or further from the screen and check if it improve the sharpness? My Chinese T1 before ver 2.0 firmware have some issue with the focus adjustment especially on the top left/right corner.


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> I'm reading through @kraine's review now. He wrote in it "despite the absence of a DTM (Dynamic Tone Mapping)..." in it. @Dave Harper earlier in the thread stated that he though it had it. Is there anything definitive from Formovie on the feature?


Actually when I checked out some scenes after I had it back in the office I questioned myself on whether it had DTM. I think I may have mistakenly had something in my video chain which tone mapped the signal inadvertently. 

I didn’t have it hooked through my HDFury, so I’m thinking it was the S&M disc on my Oppo 203 with dynamic metadata removed. That’s something I was testing around that time. I’ll have to retest this week with the new unit. 

Public service announcement too btw. I just did some good evaluating using a Zidoo Z9X through my Vertex2 and played tons of varying content at all nit levels. I can say this is an absolutely incredible combo with the VS10 Dolby Vision engine in the Zidoo!!! Every single source video tone mapped to perfection! I have SERIOUS regrets buying and building this MadVR PC with a $500 BlackMagic Capture Card for VideoProcessor software, because now I realize it’s NOT needed, and if you don’t have the coin for a Radiance Pro or Envy, then THIS is the combo for you, hands down!!!

Vertex2 configured with a 10,000 nit HDR max luminance, 1,000 nit DV Data Block at BT2020 with Global Dimming set to “Supported”! 

Thank you @markswift2003!!!


----------



## m0j0

Dave Harper said:


> Actually when I checked out some scenes after I had it back in the office I questioned myself on whether it had DTM. I think I may have mistakenly had something in my video chain which tone mapped the signal inadvertently.
> 
> I didn’t have it hooked through my HDFury, so I’m thinking it was the S&M disc on my Oppo 203 with dynamic metadata removed. That’s something I was testing around that time. I’ll have to retest this week with the new unit.
> 
> Public service announcement too btw. I just did some good evaluating using a Zidoo Z9X through my Vertex2 and played tons of varying content at all nit levels. I can say this is an absolutely incredible combo with the VS10 Dolby Vision engine in the Zidoo!!! Every single source video tone mapped to perfection! I have SERIOUS regrets buying and building this MadVR PC with a $500 BlackMagic Capture Card for VideoProcessor software, because now I realize it’s NOT needed, and if you don’t have the coin for a Radiance Pro or Envy, then THIS is the combo for you, hands down!!!
> 
> Vertex2 configured with a 10,000 nit HDR max luminance, 1,000 nit DV Data Block at BT2020 with Global Dimming set to “Supported”!
> 
> Thank you @markswift2003!!!


I agree completely. The Zidoo Z9X with an HDFury on the T1 is lights out good!


----------



## JackB

m0j0 said:


> I agree completely. The Zidoo Z9X with an HDFury on the T1 is lights out good!


Does the Z9X stream the popular movie apps + YouTube?


----------



## Brajesh

Nope. It’s strictly for local media… your own disc rips. But, it’s an excellent player for this purpose.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Actually when I checked out some scenes after I had it back in the office I questioned myself on whether it had DTM. I think I may have mistakenly had something in my video chain which tone mapped the signal inadvertently.
> 
> I didn’t have it hooked through my HDFury, so I’m thinking it was the S&M disc on my Oppo 203 with dynamic metadata removed. That’s something I was testing around that time. I’ll have to retest this week with the new unit.
> 
> Public service announcement too btw. I just did some good evaluating using a Zidoo Z9X through my Vertex2 and played tons of varying content at all nit levels. I can say this is an absolutely incredible combo with the VS10 Dolby Vision engine in the Zidoo!!! Every single source video tone mapped to perfection! I have SERIOUS regrets buying and building this MadVR PC with a $500 BlackMagic Capture Card for VideoProcessor software, because now I realize it’s NOT needed, and if you don’t have the coin for a Radiance Pro or Envy, then THIS is the combo for you, hands down!!!
> 
> Vertex2 configured with a 10,000 nit HDR max luminance, 1,000 nit DV Data Block at BT2020 with Global Dimming set to “Supported”!
> 
> Thank you @markswift2003!!!


Thanks for the update. 

Sweet on the Zidoo Z9X and Vertex2. I switched to a Z9X in January as my media player and already have a DIVA that I'll be putting into the mix. I'm just about done with my new entertainment center too. The stain is drying on the last piece now. So I should be all set whenever my projector comes in.  



JackB said:


> Does the Z9X stream the popular movie apps + YouTube?


It's really only for local content and it does an amazing job on it. You can do some side loading for streaming apps but then they can run into DRM and other issues. My goto right now and what I'd recommending to friends is a Z9X for local playback and an AppleTV4K for all of the streaming services.


----------



## aerodynamics

Dave Harper said:


> Public service announcement too btw. I just did some good evaluating using a Zidoo Z9X through my Vertex2 and played tons of varying content at all nit levels. I can say this is an absolutely incredible combo with the VS10 Dolby Vision engine in the Zidoo!!! Every single source video tone mapped to perfection! I have SERIOUS regrets buying and building this MadVR PC with a $500 BlackMagic Capture Card for VideoProcessor software, because now I realize it’s NOT needed, and if you don’t have the coin for a Radiance Pro or Envy, then THIS is the combo for you, hands down!!!


Is your AV chain posted somewhere?


----------



## kraine

rjyap said:


> Can you do a simple test to check if this is the focus adjustment issue? Try to pull your projector either nearer or further from the screen and check if it improve the sharpness? My Chinese T1 before ver 2.0 firmware have some issue with the focus adjustment especially on the top left/right corner.


I must have a defective unit, this is the same focus pictures on another Formovie Theater :


----------



## MDesigns

kraine said:


> I must have a defective unit, this is the same focus pictures on another Formovie Theater :
> 
> View attachment 3299530


Left one looks like to have keystone or other geometric correction on that causes the jaggies and edge blending and exaggerates the difference. Otherwise could be mostly just the camera/photo difference.


----------



## humax

kraine said:


> I must have a defective unit, this is the same focus pictures on another Formovie Theater :
> 
> View attachment 3299530



A defective unit is most likely the case. Even so, now that they want to go international, they should have never let a unit with such bad focus leave the factory in the first place. This is basic performance stuff, not minor details. Their QC must become more strict and not mess about with such things.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> I said something similar above. To summarize, if I wanted a little more of a softer look, I would just go with a three chip LCD or LCos. Even on an older JVC, like on the NX line, the sequential contrast is going to be better and the ones with filters can do DCI-P3, keeping in mind the amount of content graded beyond DCI-P3 is still more limited.


But we are talking about USTs here and nothing else comes close to the contrast of the Theater right now, not even the 2x more expensive units from LG or Samsung.

There are no LCoS option and the only 3 chip LCD Epson as of today unit is more expensive and inferior aside from max brightness and input lag than the Theater in every other way.

We felt the T1 image was softer than the px1-pro and the Theater appears the same as the T1 to us but we’re going to spend more time today as we just got in a second Theater sample to check for consistency between Theater units and against up against the T1.

As always, open invite for you to come and play with all the toys and make your own judgement.


----------



## ProjectionHead

kraine said:


> I must have a defective unit, this is the same focus pictures on another Formovie Theater :
> 
> View attachment 3299530


It looks like a different screen may being used as well. @kraine - do you know what screen is being used in the comparison photos?


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> But we are talking about USTs here and nothing else comes close to the contrast of the Theater right now, not even the 2x more expensive units from LG or Samsung.
> 
> There are no LCoS option and the only 3 chip LCD Epson as of today unit is more expensive and inferior aside from max brightness and input lag than the Theater in every other way.
> 
> We felt the T1 image was softer than the px1-pro and the Theater appears the same as the T1 to us but we’re going to spend more time today as we just got in a second Theater sample to check for consistency between Theater units and against up against the T1.
> 
> As always, open invite for you to come and play with all the toys and make your own judgement.


Thanks for the invite. If it is the "de-speckle" system, I wonder if there's a way to turn that off. As far as nothing comes close in terms of contrast, I took you to mean for an international UST unit? Because recall the Formovie Theater still has some sibling rivalry.

I did measure 3,649:1, after calibration, on the Xiaomi Laser C2, a nice plug-n-play DV unit with no speckle, and it's so sharp you can shave with it. But of course, its color can't go as wide as the Fengmi's.


----------



## Dave Harper

aerodynamics said:


> Is your AV chain posted somewhere?


No, and it changes almost daily!


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> I must have a defective unit, this is the same focus pictures on another Formovie Theater :
> 
> View attachment 3299530


It's vital that we see the pixel grid on these units. Even with the shift actuator offsetting the pixels, we should still be able to see the pixel grid. The grid, to me, is telltale of a good lens and proper processing.

I have yet to get a demonstration, but does the Formovie Theater have digital focus like on the Laser C2? And if so, are you seeing changes to focus on adjusting the focus feature?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> Thanks for the invite. If it is the "de-speckle" system, I wonder if there's a way to turn that off. As far as nothing comes close in terms of contrast, I took you to mean for an international UST unit? Because recall the Formovie Theater still has some sibling rivalry.
> 
> I did measure 3,649:1, after calibration, on the Xiaomi Laser C2, a nice plug-n-play DV unit with no speckle, and it's so sharp you can shave with it. But of course, its color can't go as wide as the Fengmi's.


Fair enough, I was referring to what is available and supported here in the USA.
Sometimes I forget to take my ‘Murica hat off 🦅🇺🇸


----------



## Brajesh

QC issue is concerning... Russian Roulette.


----------



## kraine

ProjectionHead said:


> It looks like a different screen may being used as well. @kraine - do you know what screen is being used in the comparison photos?


Yes it’s also a CLR Vividstorm screen (not mine but the same in other place).


----------



## must bring back VHS-Tape

Brajesh said:


> QC issue is concerning... Russian Roulette.


I perceived the same risk as such and it does not look like good quality control that a damaged projector lens is even possible and then can still leave the factory.

The majority of customers would first be irritated and disappointed with the image and would probably not even know that this is not the optimum they should expect from this projector. 

In general, I like Kraine/Gregory's offer to have an international importer sell the product and refine it through his calibration. He would certainly recognize such lens defects, which an average buyer does not automatically complain about as such.
However, it will be interesting to see how the warranty case would be handled with this offer. 

"Icing on the cake or rather kumquat, Nothingbutlabel offers a 3 years warranty on the Formovie Theater. The only condition in case of problem is that you have to send the projector back to China at your own expense, but the repair and return will be taken care of by this merchant."

To my disappointment, they rigorously deleted any inquiries on his website.

He describes the procedure on his website that in case of damage within the three years of a warranty, you would have to send the product to China at your own expense and then the retailer and manufacturer would take care of repair/replacement and return at their own expense. 
But what about when Kraine finds the fault before a customer could ever have the device in his hands. 
His behavior might indicate that he at least suspects that the customer, who lost in Russian roulette, will now automatically have to pay the return shipping costs to China and then, at best, get a new device. 

As a Frenchman, he will understand that this has a "haut goût". 
Here, his statement would certainly be authoritative for many European prospective buyers. Maybe I see this too bureaucratic, gloomy or even screwed up.
The fact is that the Chinese manufacturer is far away and first return costs are with the buyer. 

Gregory was fair enough to address this problem of blurriness at all. However, one should not leave anyone out in the cold, since many have already ordered in good faith.


----------



## Aztar35

must bring back VHS-Tape said:


> I perceived the same risk as such and it does not look like good quality control that a damaged projector lens is even possible and then can still leave the factory.
> 
> The majority of customers would first be irritated and disappointed with the image and would probably not even know that this is not the optimum they should expect from this projector.
> 
> In general, I like Kraine/Gregory's offer to have an international importer sell the product and refine it through his calibration. He would certainly recognize such lens defects, which an average buyer does not automatically complain about as such.
> However, it will be interesting to see how the warranty case would be handled with this offer.
> 
> "Icing on the cake or rather kumquat, Nothingbutlabel offers a 3 years warranty on the Formovie Theater. The only condition in case of problem is that you have to send the projector back to China at your own expense, but the repair and return will be taken care of by this merchant."
> 
> To my disappointment, they rigorously deleted any inquiries on his website.
> 
> He describes the procedure on his website that in case of damage within the three years of a warranty, you would have to send the product to China at your own expense and then the retailer and manufacturer would take care of repair/replacement and return at their own expense.
> But what about when Kraine finds the fault before a customer could ever have the device in his hands.
> His behavior might indicate that he at least suspects that the customer, who lost in Russian roulette, will now automatically have to pay the return shipping costs to China and then, at best, get a new device.
> 
> As a Frenchman, he will understand that this has a "haut goût".
> Here, his statement would certainly be authoritative for many European prospective buyers. Maybe I see this too bureaucratic, gloomy or even screwed up.
> The fact is that the Chinese manufacturer is far away and first return costs are with the buyer.
> 
> Gregory was fair enough to address this problem of blurriness at all. However, one should not leave anyone out in the cold, since many have already ordered in good faith.


The first thing I would want to know is can you bring the pixel grid into focus. Is the grid visible. I know from far away, you don't see the grid. But to me, everything begins with good pixel definition.


----------



## kraine

Who wrote that the projector lens was damaged? Certainly not me and its physical examination (I have the projector at home I recall)


As for the precise conditions of the warranty I invite you to ask them directly to the seller as I indicated to you by email to explain why you have been moderated.


As for the problems and defects that can impact the image of a projector, go and read my test of the JVC NP5, which is sold twice as expensive as the Formovie and other famous brands, marketed in Europe whose "quality control" makes consumers bristle and at rates much higher than those of the Formovie.


If you can't stand the fact that you have a 3 year warranty which means that you have to send the device back to China in case of a problem, it's perfectly legitimate but the information has been given beforehand and you get a complete test which highlights the defects and the advantages of the projector concerned. This should help you to know if it's worth it or not.


----------



## kraine

Here are some additional test patterns, the first is the focus pattern displayed directly from the projector.










The 4 others are taken in HDMI link with a 4K test pattern, as I indicated in the test the best results in terms of sharpness are obtained (on my test copy) in this configuration.





































I let you judge the level of "degradation" of the optics.

PS : The photos are not compressed.


----------



## must bring back VHS-Tape

@kraine aka Gregory

This E-Mail is quite enlightening and now you also have to be insulting while bypassing the actual question.
Unfortunate, but you obviously understood me well.
Therefore, to immediately conclude my state of mind seems less relevant or even professional.
But in other contributions we have already been able to admire your aggressiveness, while nobody was harming you...

Although I don't see where this should have happened this time, I am very sorry if you should feel offended.
If it is for the sake of disclosing a problem, then certainly no apology is needed and everyone might wonder where your deep anger comes from.

I hope that a more appropriate and purposeful tone can be maintained here in the future.


----------



## kraine

Aztar35 said:


> The first thing I would want to know is can you bring the pixel grid into focus. Is the grid visible. I know from far away, you don't see the grid. But to me, everything begins with good pixel definition.


You might take a look on the post #205


----------



## humax

Since the second Formovie sample that Gregory posted seems to focus properly, it should not be a matter of generally poor quality optics, but a lackluster internal parts alignment. This could definitely be improved with better QC and a little more effort. Higher rejection rates and lower tolerances at the factory means fewer customer returns in the long run. They seem to be monitoring this forum, so this is something to take into consideration.


----------



## kraine

A small bonus of some images from the Molotov application with excerpts of Dune in 1080p from Mycanal directly from the projector, followed by Widows in 1080p on France 2 and a program from Arte also in Full HD, all this on a 110-inch Vividstorm screen in a living room (all French TV Channels).


----------



## humax

kraine said:


> I let you judge the level of "degradation" of the optics.



Thank you for the photos. There is also something I have been meaning to ask you ever since I read your ChiQ B7U review and made an impression on me. I quote:

"Big surprise with the B7U which, remember, is equipped with a 0.47" DMD chip with native resolution 1080p. It is simply the only one to successfully display the details of the horizontal lines present in the rectangle below, as this is possible with this chip. Its counterparts usually manage to reproduce from this part of the sight only a gray rectangle without any pattern inside. "


So, this means that other 0.47" DMD units like the Xiaomi C2, the T1 or the Theater are not able to do this? What does this mean in practice?


----------



## kraine

humax said:


> Thank you for the photos. There is also something I have been meaning to ask you ever since I read your ChiQ B7U review and made an impression on me. I quote:
> 
> "Big surprise with the B7U which, remember, is equipped with a 0.47" DMD chip with native resolution 1080p. It is simply the only one to successfully display the details of the horizontal lines present in the rectangle below, as this is possible with this chip. Its counterparts usually manage to reproduce from this part of the sight only a gray rectangle without any pattern inside. "
> 
> 
> So, this means that other 0.47" DMD units like the Xiaomi C2, the T1 or the Theater are not able to do this? What does this mean in practice?


Yes, the very small elements contained in these two rectangles are very hard to reproduce for XPR models, few of the tested models can.


----------



## ProjectionHead

humax said:


> Since the second Formovie sample that Gregory posted seems to focus properly, it should not be a matter of generally poor quality optics, but a lackluster internal parts alignment. This could definitely be improved with better QC and a little more effort. Higher rejection rates and lower tolerances at the factory means fewer customer returns in the long run. They seem to be monitoring this forum, so this is something to take into consideration.


@kraine - are these photos from a 2nd unit or still the first unit? 
Focus on both units (as well as the T1) appears to be slightly sharper on the bottom quadrants as opposed to the top when on the focus screen, but imperceptible with actual video content.
Perhaps our eyes are playing tricks on us, but it appears the sharpness has improved as the projector has been running for a while. - @kraine I'm curious if you see the same thing


----------



## kraine

Hi Brian,

This is still the first copy and it illustrates what I wrote to you about better results with HDMI.


----------



## kraine

Now I didn't notice any improvement linked to the running time, nor the opposite for that matter (we are not at Sony which needs 30 minutes of running time to have stable convergences ).


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> Now I didn't notice any improvement linked to the running time, nor the opposite for that matter (we are not at Sony which needs 30 minutes of running time to have stable convergences ).


Yes, but it's not just about the three panels aligning better as they heat up, the lens will also do the same and get better as the glass and/or polymer lens reaches operating temperature.


----------



## MDesigns

MDesigns said:


> Thank you for the great review!
> 
> One technical question about the gamut measurement -> Do you know if the software(which is it btw?) you use counts the "out of gamut" parts of the measured gamut to the final number? Is the 89,5 % of Rec2020 the part measured from inside the the Rec2020 or the projectors full gamut size compared in volume only?
> 
> The Rec709 and DCI-P3 numbers point to the way it could count the out of gamut results also. The measurement should imo be less than 100 % or 100 %, not over it. If I remember correctly I have seen measurements done with the same software(and another projector) show over 100%, but when looking at the diagram it clearly misses one of the corners so it should be below 100%. In this case the gamut was big enough in volume, but in the wrong place.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 3299367


@kraine can you elaborate on the gamut question above? Thanks! 😊

@TomHuffman Can you please check the Chromapure gamut coverage question in the quoted post? How is it calculated? Is it the coverage INSIDE the target gamut? Or full area comparison that calculates also the out of gamut parts? Thank you!


----------



## kraine

It's chromapure, Tom Huffman (his creator) is here on the forum.



ChromaPure Video Calibration Software


----------



## Aztar35

humax said:


> Since the second Formovie sample that Gregory posted seems to focus properly, it should not be a matter of generally poor quality optics, but a lackluster internal parts alignment. This could definitely be improved with better QC and a little more effort. Higher rejection rates and lower tolerances at the factory means fewer customer returns in the long run. They seem to be monitoring this forum, so this is something to take into consideration.


But I don't know what would cause that internally. Which internal parts are you thinking about? It's a DLP which arguably has the most straight-forward platform of the various projection technologies, and a single chip design at that. If the mirror actuator is malfunctioning, you might hear a hum and typically see larger pixels. That's not this situation.

That Brian's first unit was not as sharp as the PX1 also gives me pause to wonder.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> But I don't know what would cause that internally. Which internal parts are you thinking about? It's a DLP which arguably has the most straight-forward platform of the various projection technologies, and a single chip design at that. If the mirror actuator is malfunctioning, you might hear a hum and typically see larger pixels. That's not this situation.
> 
> That Brian's first unit was not as sharp as the PX1 also gives me pause to wonder.


It was actually the T1 that we tested up against the PX1-Pro, not the Theater. We will be putting the Theater up against it this week to analyze any potential difference in sharpness between the two.


----------



## kraine

A third Unit arrive at one of my readers home today and this is what he wrote about sharpness :

_hi gregory, my projector already arrived this morning, the truth is that in terms of sharpness I don't have this problem, it's going pretty well, I still have to try it on the screen, which is arriving this week, another thing the memc works with dolby vision, just that it's disabled by default but you can choose memc manually in the configuration menu_


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> It was actually the T1 that we tested up against the PX1-Pro, not the Theater. We will be putting the Theater up against it this week to analyze any potential difference in sharpness between the two.


...so it was the T1. I misunderstood because I thought someone said testing would be done with a second unit and I thought the Theater was being discussed in either case.


----------



## humax

Aztar35 said:


> That Brian's first unit was not as sharp as the PX1 also gives me pause to wonder.



Yes, but Gregory's photo of the second Theater unit shows a razor sharp focus with the same type of screen. I don't think there is any major lens specs deviation for these units, so the other possible explanation is internal misalignment (somewhere in the DMD-actuator-lens chain?). For the extra money they are asking from the T1, this should not be an issue at all, apart from a few defective units. You cannot pay this kind of money and pray you get a properly focused projector. They already have to overcome the Chinese product-low quality preconception in the US. This is not the time for amateur hour.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> ...so it was the T1. I misunderstood because I thought someone said testing would be done with a second unit and I thought the Theater was being discussed in either case.


T1 is what we did the side by side with PX1-Pro in a previous thread. Haven't yet put the Theater up against anything other than the T1 yet. Will be doing this week if time allows.


----------



## ProjectionHead

humax said:


> Yes, but Gregory's photo of the second Theater unit shows a razor sharp focus with the same type of screen. I don't think there is any major lens specs deviation for these units, so the other possible explanation is internal misalignment (somewhere in the DMD-actuator-lens chain?). For the extra money they are asking from the T1, this should not be an issue at all, apart from a few defective units. You cannot pay this kind of money and pray you get a properly focused projector. They already have to overcome the Chinese product-low quality preconception in the US. This is not the time for amateur hour.


Some projectors have better lenses than others. I think the one in the PX1-Pro may be better than the Formovie/T1 hence the sharper image, not a matter of focus not working on the Theater.

For $3,000 USD (which is on the low end of the RGB triple laser price spectrum) you can't have it all and expect it to be better in _every_ regard than units costing hundreds to thousands of dollars more.

Our 2 Theater units tested seem to be focus the same & be just as sharp as our T1.


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> T1 is what we did the side by side with PX1-Pro in a previous thread. Haven't yet put the Theater up against anything other than the T1 yet. *Will be doing this week if time allows.*


I hope it looks all-around great. An RGB laser UST with decent sequential contrast and DV in this price range is a pretty big deal. Keep us posted.


----------



## Aztar35

humax said:


> Yes, but Gregory's photo of the second Theater unit shows a razor sharp focus with the same type of screen. I don't think there is any major lens specs deviation for these units, so the other possible explanation is internal misalignment (somewhere in the DMD-actuator-lens chain?). For the extra money they are asking from the T1, this should not be an issue at all, apart from a few defective units. You cannot pay this kind of money and pray you get a properly focused projector. They already have to overcome the Chinese product-low quality preconception in the US. This is not the time for amateur hour.


In that second photo, I could make out the pixel grid. Yes, I'll wait for more reports to come in.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> In that second photo, I could make out the pixel grid. Yes, I'll wait for more reports to come in.


We can see the pixel grid on both of our units as well.


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> We can see the pixel grid on both of our units as well.


That's a great sign. It all starts there as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> It was actually the T1 that we tested up against the PX1-Pro, not the Theater. We will be putting the Theater up against it this week to analyze any potential difference in sharpness between the two.


When you get my unit in feel free to check the sharpness or any other measurable values from if you'd like to collect more data points. Just give me a heads up so that I know to expect one that's been opened up already.


----------



## Ricoflashback

What about my unit? I want a complete BG inspection special with a full Harpervision calibration before it gets to me. Hey - you can always ask!


----------



## mirzank

must bring back VHS-Tape said:


> I perceived the same risk as such and it does not look like good quality control that a damaged projector lens is even possible and then can still leave the factory.
> 
> The majority of customers would first be irritated and disappointed with the image and would probably not even know that this is not the optimum they should expect from this projector.
> 
> In general, I like Kraine/Gregory's offer to have an international importer sell the product and refine it through his calibration. He would certainly recognize such lens defects, which an average buyer does not automatically complain about as such.
> However, it will be interesting to see how the warranty case would be handled with this offer.
> 
> "Icing on the cake or rather kumquat, Nothingbutlabel offers a 3 years warranty on the Formovie Theater. The only condition in case of problem is that you have to send the projector back to China at your own expense, but the repair and return will be taken care of by this merchant."
> 
> To my disappointment, they rigorously deleted any inquiries on his website.
> 
> He describes the procedure on his website that in case of damage within the three years of a warranty, you would have to send the product to China at your own expense and then the retailer and manufacturer would take care of repair/replacement and return at their own expense.
> But what about when Kraine finds the fault before a customer could ever have the device in his hands.
> His behavior might indicate that he at least suspects that the customer, who lost in Russian roulette, will now automatically have to pay the return shipping costs to China and then, at best, get a new device.
> 
> As a Frenchman, he will understand that this has a "haut goût".
> Here, his statement would certainly be authoritative for many European prospective buyers. Maybe I see this too bureaucratic, gloomy or even screwed up.
> The fact is that the Chinese manufacturer is far away and first return costs are with the buyer.
> 
> Gregory was fair enough to address this problem of blurriness at all. However, one should not leave anyone out in the cold, since many have already ordered in good faith.


The other issue bigger than just the shipping cost is paying for customs duty on the return. As far as I can tell in Europe or USA if you send your unit back and then they ship it back if you’re lucky maybe they don’t charge you customs but normally you’d end up paying the 15-20% vat/customs. So if it’s the international version they should have a place you can return it locally.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> We can see the pixel grid on both of our units as well.


You mentioned you can drop ship to Europe. In this case will the price include customs duty or is that additional ?
Also do you inspect the units for sharpness and QC if shipped within US?


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> You mentioned you can drop ship to Europe. In this case will the price include customs duty or is that additional ?
> Also do you inspect the units for sharpness and QC if shipped within US?


Question #1 - we have to do via DM or email (against forum rules)
Question #2 - we plan on checking the first dozen or so items to confirm no problems, with customer permission to open their package.

Here is our unit's focus: (we do mention in our review that the focus improves after 30 or so minutes. Imperceptible in video content, but noticeable on the focus screen)


----------



## ProjectionHead

Here is our review; get it while it's hot!









Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)


Introduction We are excited to be working with Formovie on the launch of their latest and greatest projector, the Formovie Theater here in the USA. There has been a lot of buzz around this particular model based on it's predecessor, the...




www.projectorscreen.com


----------



## humax

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is our unit's focus:



This looks pretty good. I don't think anyone would have any complaints with such a unit. Also, thanks for sharing the review link.


----------



## Brajesh

Well-done review! _Pun intended w/@ProjectionHead's graphic there_ .


----------



## Movie_geek

Really helpful review. I'm still torn between this and the Hisense PX1-PRO and AWOL 3500 but you did a nice job explaining some of the concerns around focusing I had which is fantastic.


----------



## DesertDog

Eek, glad I started checking the review and it had the throw calculator in it. The screen placement numbers are a little different than what a couple of the sites showed for the T1. Luckily I can adjust what I'm building to account for that. The manual also calls for 50 cm of space on each side of it for airflow. I only have about half that but I think I can work around it.


----------



## Brajesh

Just placed my order with Brian (@ProjectionHead); happy to support such a unique salesperson/vendor in this space (really any space).

Being a 3D fan, time to look for a decent, but affordable 1080p 3D front PJ to feed my needs there . Dual PJ set-up, here I come.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Eek, glad I started checking the review and it had the throw calculator in it. The screen placement numbers are a little different than what a couple of the sites showed for the T1. Luckily I can adjust what I'm building to account for that. The manual also calls for 50 cm of space on each side of it for airflow. I only have about half that but I think I can work around it.


We made our chart from the manual; if something seems off lmk and I’ll banish the mistake-maker to the dungeon!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Movie_geek said:


> Really helpful review. I'm still torn between this and the Hisense PX1-PRO and AWOL 3500 but you did a nice job explaining some of the concerns around focusing I had which is fantastic.


Hit us up if you want to get into detail about them and how they compare.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> We made our chart from the manual; if something seems off lmk and I’ll banish the mistake-maker to the dungeon!


Your calculator looks correct per the manual. The only one that might be off is the 25.1" back of projector to the screen (120" screen). I can't find the physical dimensions of the Theater anywhere. I'd assume it's the same size as the T1 at 349mm. If that's the case then the front to back is 26.74".

Do you have the physical dimension of the projector? It seems odd that they don't have it listed in their the manual or on their site. I had the T1 listed as 550mm x 349mm x 107mm from one of the Chinese sites.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Your calculator looks correct per the manual. The only one that might be off is the 25.1" back of projector to the screen (120" screen). I can't find the physical dimensions of the Theater anywhere. I'd assume it's the same size as the T1 at 349mm. If that's the case then the front to back is 26.74".
> 
> Do you have the physical dimension of the projector? It seems odd that they don't have it listed in their the manual or on their site. I had the T1 listed as 550mm x 349mm x 107mm from one of the Chinese sites.


I believe they are the same size, I’ll measure em next week when back in the office. Will also try to confirm distance on a 120” as well.
… always possible we made an error converting metric to imperial. Why would anyone make a measurement system based on units of 10 instead of a much more arbitrary system not used by the rest of the world?!?


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> I believe they are the same size, I’ll measure em next week when back in the office. Will also try to confirm distance on a 120” as well.
> … always possible we made an error converting metric to imperial. Why would anyone make a measurement system based on units of 10 instead of a much more arbitrary system not used by the rest of the world?!?


Thanks! From the ceiling mounting diagram it looks like the widths are the same. The depth looks close but there's missing value in it. 

So if that holds you have the front to screen and bottom to bottom matching what the manual has listed.


----------



## rjyap

For budget around USD 3k, this would be the unit to beat. In fact it can challenge other long throw projector that cost around USD 5k.


----------



## aerodynamics

Dave Harper said:


> Public service announcement too btw. I just did some good evaluating using a Zidoo Z9X through my Vertex2 and played tons of varying content at all nit levels. I can say this is an absolutely incredible combo with the VS10 Dolby Vision engine in the Zidoo!!! Every single source video tone mapped to perfection! I have SERIOUS regrets buying and building this MadVR PC with a $500 BlackMagic Capture Card for VideoProcessor software, because now I realize it’s NOT needed, and if you don’t have the coin for a Radiance Pro or Envy, then THIS is the combo for you, hands down!!!


Are your sources plugged into the Vertex2? And then from Vertex2 > Z9X > display?


----------



## MDesigns

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is our review; get it while it's hot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)
> 
> 
> Introduction We are excited to be working with Formovie on the launch of their latest and greatest projector, the Formovie Theater here in the USA. There has been a lot of buzz around this particular model based on it's predecessor, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3301001


Still looks to be a really interesting unit for the price. Thank you for the review!

Few interesting bits I think it is missing:

Brightness and contrast in the other laser modes. I think you used only max? Is there more? Kraine mentioned three modes.
No dynamic laser dimming for black levels in dark scenes?
Why is the contrast less in the Dolby Vision mode? Is it because white is limited, black raised? Was it tonemapping the white pattern when measuring? Measured numbers would be great value in addition to just the contrast number.
Measured color gamuts Rec709, DCI-P3 and BT2020 in %. From the charts it looks like it can't do full P3 or even Rec709. Is this because of the calibration and can it be adjusted? I am not really sure if this is pre or post calibration, it's not really clear on the review. The actual "HDR post calibration" looks like to be Rec709?


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is our review; get it while it's hot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)
> 
> 
> Introduction We are excited to be working with Formovie on the launch of their latest and greatest projector, the Formovie Theater here in the USA. There has been a lot of buzz around this particular model based on it's predecessor, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3301001


A few questions regarding the review:
1) you mention waiting 30 mins before doing the initial adjustments. Are you talking about the first time the projector is run/first few times, or are you saying every time you turn on the projector it needs 30 mins to get to peak sharpness ? Understand you also said you don’t notice the lack of sharpness in real life but still curious. 
2)was the review done with the initially defective less sharp model or the new one ?


----------



## rjyap

mirzank said:


> A few questions regarding the review:
> 1) you mention waiting 30 mins before doing the initial adjustments. Are you talking about the first time the projector is run/first few times, or are you saying every time you turn on the projector it needs 30 mins to get to peak sharpness ? Understand you also said you don’t notice the lack of sharpness in real life but still curious.
> 2)was the review done with the initially defective less sharp model or the new one ?


Anyone facing sharpness issue have been resolved by tnaik4. Check out this post on how to do it.









Formovie Fengmi T1


Guys i have really good news for whoever is brave enough!!! I fixed the top half the image being out of focus, i was brave enough to take the projector cover off to see whats the problem cause i suspected the lens focus ring is stuck or somthing at a certain point because i had that issue once...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## kraine

I have the JVC NP5 at home and I rather prefer the Formovie theater  for his dynamic, colors, Dolby Vision, sound, smartTV etc….


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> A few questions regarding the review:
> 1) you mention waiting 30 mins before doing the initial adjustments. Are you talking about the first time the projector is run/first few times, or are you saying every time you turn on the projector it needs 30 mins to get to peak sharpness ? Understand you also said you don’t notice the lack of sharpness in real life but still curious.
> 2)was the review done with the initially defective less sharp model or the new one ?


It turns out our into first unit wasn’t less sharp, we just didn’t realize the warmup time was needed when trying to get the focus pattern to be at peak sharpness.
I am not quite sure if it needs to be warmed up every time or just the first couple, because once we got both units dialed in we stopped checking focus pattern.
We’ll noodle around with it more next week and see if it needs it every time.


----------



## ProjectionHead

rjyap said:


> Anyone facing sharpness issue have been resolved by tnaik4. Check out this post on how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1
> 
> 
> Guys i have really good news for whoever is brave enough!!! I fixed the top half the image being out of focus, i was brave enough to take the projector cover off to see whats the problem cause i suspected the lens focus ring is stuck or somthing at a certain point because i had that issue once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Quite interesting; I will share that with Fengmi/Formovie. For the Theater model, I’d suggest just letting it warm up before trying to set the focus.


----------



## rjyap

kraine said:


> I have the JVC NP5 at home and I rather prefer the Formovie theater  for his dynamic, colors, Dolby Vision, sound, smartTV etc….


Well there's some people who don't trust your finding and think that you are Chinese disguise as French. They need another third-party opinion.


----------



## kraine

Even if I don't have a beret, my breakfast in the morning is coffee/croissants! And not in Shenzen!


----------



## kraine

JVC NP5 Review (to compare with the Formovie Theater review ) Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr











Test JVC DLA-NP5 - Mondoprojos.fr


Dans un paysage du haut de gamme de la projection home cinéma tourné vers le tout laser, il est surprenant de voir que le DLA-NP5, dernier projecteur de JVC, fait de la résistance et conserve une lampe UHP. Il est disponible depuis quelques semaines au prix indicatif de 6999€. Son châssis est...




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Dave Harper

aerodynamics said:


> Are your sources plugged into the Vertex2? And then from Vertex2 > Z9X > display?


No the Z9X is a video source, so it needs to be before the Vertex2. 

So video sources->Vertex2->projector



MDesigns said:


> Still looks to be a really interesting unit for the price. Thank you for the review!
> 
> Few interesting bits I think it is missing:
> 
> Brightness and contrast in the other laser modes. I think you used only max? Is there more? Kraine mentioned three modes.
> No dynamic laser dimming for black levels in dark scenes?
> Why is the contrast less in the Dolby Vision mode? Is it because white is limited, black raised? Was it tonemapping the white pattern when measuring? Measured numbers would be great value in addition to just the contrast number.
> Measured color gamuts Rec709, DCI-P3 and BT2020 in %. From the charts it looks like it can't do full P3 or even Rec709. Is this because of the calibration and can it be adjusted? I am not really sure if this is pre or post calibration, it's not really clear on the review. The actual "HDR post calibration" looks like to be Rec709?
> 
> View attachment 3301202
> 
> 
> View attachment 3301203


We have very limited time to do these and don’t want the review to be too many pages long so some things aren’t done for brevity’s sake. With RGB laser as you lower the peak power the black floor stays the same so contrast reduces. We wanted to show the best you can achieve for each mode. 

That’s something we need to ask Fengmi regarding the DV contrast. I was shocked too. We may try to investigate further next week and update our review. 

I believe gamut % is post calibration iirc and if it’s lower it’s due to what I say in every review. I prioritize accurate color sweeps over total gamut peak coverage. So if the 100% point suffers so I can get all the other points below it accurate, then so be it. 

HDR Post cal color gamut shows just 50% saturation points. 



mirzank said:


> A few questions regarding the review:
> 1) you mention waiting 30 mins before doing the initial adjustments. Are you talking about the first time the projector is run/first few times, or are you saying every time you turn on the projector it needs 30 mins to get to peak sharpness ? Understand you also said you don’t notice the lack of sharpness in real life but still curious.
> 2)was the review done with the initially defective less sharp model or the new one ?


See Brian’s response regarding sharpness. 

2) review was done 99% from original UST. Sharpness doesn’t affect grayscale, contrast, colors or brightness. We just ran a couple tests with the new one on things we had questions on, but results were extremely similar. They’re essentially identical because we realized the first one was as sharp as the new one after warm up, as we stated.


----------



## ACE844

Dave Harper said:


> No the Z9X is a video source, so it needs to be before the Vertex2.
> 
> So video sources->Vertex2->projector


Dave, 

Are you doing all of the streaming from the Z9X i.e: using the same as you would use a shield for streaming, or are you using the Z9X as a "BD MKV/rip/media" file server only?
I have the CN version T1, shield pro, etc... However as I understood from @markswift2003 and @Brajeshexplanations the z9X doesn't handle streaming apps well and or streamed "live" content, or have I misunderstood?


----------



## Dave Harper

ACE844 said:


> Dave,
> 
> Are you doing all of the streaming from the Z9X i.e: using the same as you would use a shield for streaming, or are you using the Z9X as a "BD MKV/rip/media" file server only?
> I have the CN version T1, shield pro, etc... However as I understood from @markswift2003 and @Brajeshexplanations the z9X doesn't handle streaming apps well and or streamed "live" content, or have I misunderstood?


Only as a local rip client playback device. I use AppleTV for streaming and a “reconfigured” TiVo Stream 4K for Channels DVR TV source, which also has streaming apps that I use occasionally if I’m already set to that input.


----------



## ACE844

Dave Harper said:


> Only as a local rip client playback device. I use AppleTV for streaming and a “reconfigured” TiVo Stream 4K for Channels DVR TV source, which also has streaming apps that I use occasionally if I’m already set to that input.


Thank you, that's a great help as the z9X wouldn't wouldn't do a whole lot for my installation as we're not watching any rips.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> With RGB laser as you lower the peak power the black floor stays the same so contrast reduces. We wanted to show the best you can achieve for each mode.


Can you further explain on this part? Cause on Chinese T1, if I choose Brightness mode from view to night/silent, I definitely observe a lower black floor. I didn't do any measurement on night/silent mode but it's quite obvious.



Dave Harper said:


> I believe gamut % is post calibration iirc and if it’s lower it’s due to what I say in every review. I prioritize accurate color sweeps over total gamut peak coverage. So if the 100% point suffers so I can get all the other points below it accurate, then so be it.
> 
> HDR Post cal color gamut shows just 50% saturation points.


I understand that normally when calibrate color gamut, we try to match up to 50% - 75% saturation point for it to be as linear possible as seldom video image will utilize 100% colorspace. In this case, I personally feel that 3D LUT with either external processor or MadVR would be more powerful and able to utilize all the colorspace available using DTM.


----------



## tnaik4

On my Chinese T1 when i use Night mode or any mode that has lower brightness the black level decrease, i even measured it, it doesnt stay the same but its not linear, i would say the brightness is reduced more than the black level, but not by a big margin.


----------



## tnaik4

@Dave Harper when u measure a triple laser rgb, what meter profile do u use, i have the i1d3 and i feel its not working correctly with triple laser.


----------



## rjyap

tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper when u measure a triple laser rgb, what meter profile do u use, i have the i1d3 and i feel its not working correctly with triple laser.


Well I'm not Dave but based on my understanding, you need to profile your i1d3 against a calibrated spectrometer that can measure below 5nm for tri-laser projector. There's no EDR for tri-laser projector available for i1D3. I'm profiling my colorimeter against i1Pro ver 1 which is 10nm and use my notebook LCD screen which been calibrated as visual reference and compare to the greyscale chart display by calibrated T1. As far as my eyes can see, there's no visible color tint in the greyscale.


----------



## tnaik4

rjyap said:


> Well I'm not Dave but based on my understanding, you need to profile your i1d3 against a calibrated spectrometer that can measure below 5nm for tri-laser projector. There's no EDR for tri-laser projector available for i1D3. I'm profiling my colorimeter against i1Pro ver 1 which is 10nm and use my notebook LCD screen which been calibrated as visual reference and compare to the greyscale chart display by calibrated T1. As far as my eyes can see, there's no visible color tint in the greyscale.


Hmm, i dont have an i1pro, i have the C6 hdr, i guess i cant use it right now unless i profile it.
Ive read somewhere that there is a plus version which is better for triple laser, u know anything about that?


----------



## ProjectionHead

tnaik4 said:


> Hmm, i dont have an i1pro, i have the C6 hdr, i guess i cant use it right now unless i profile it.
> Ive read somewhere that there is a plus version which is better for triple laser, u know anything about that?


I’ve been noodling about the idea of offering profiling once we get our Jeti 1511.
Of course it could only be done based on the same model of projector that we have on hand (which is pretty much every UST) so there may be slight variances to the unit still at customers house.
Someone could send us the colorimeter and we can profile it to the projector in question and then send back.
Not sure how much interest there is for that out there, nor what price it would be worth to someone.
Would love to hear some thoughts


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> Can you further explain on this part? Cause on Chinese T1, if I choose Brightness mode from view to night/silent, I definitely observe a lower black floor. I didn't do any measurement on night/silent mode but it's quite obvious.
> 
> I understand that normally when calibrate color gamut, we try to match up to 50% - 75% saturation point for it to be as linear possible as seldom video image will utilize 100% colorspace. In this case, I personally feel that 3D LUT with either external processor or MadVR would be more powerful and able to utilize all the colorspace available using DTM.


I’m going by the USTs I’ve measured that offer a laser power setting of say 1-10. I’m glad to hear that the China T1 does this! I’ll have to go check my charts. Not many do this!

I don’t do 3D LUTs for my review calibrations because the average Joe doesn’t have that capability, but I wholeheartedly agree!



tnaik4 said:


> On my Chinese T1 when i use Night mode or any mode that has lower brightness the black level decrease, i even measured it, *it doesnt stay the same but its not linear, i would say the brightness is reduced more than the black level, *but not by a big margin.


If that’s the case then the same holds true that contrast will reduce. 



tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper when u measure a triple laser rgb, what meter profile do u use, i have the i1d3 and i feel its not working correctly with triple laser.


I was profiling to my i1Pro2 spectro with decent results I am told are within 3% tolerance. I spoke with a few other pros like Jason Dustal and we all agreed that the RAW setting came very close with a small error margin so I’ve been using that until we get our Jeti 1511 Hi-Res. 



tnaik4 said:


> Hmm, i dont have an i1pro, i have the C6 hdr, i guess i cant use it right now unless i profile it.
> Ive read somewhere that there is a plus version which is better for triple laser, u know anything about that?


Use the RAW profile.


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> Use the RAW profile.


But can the i1d3 read correctly rgb lasers or it cant register the spectrum of these colors.

I will try raw profile.


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> But can the i1d3 read correctly rgb lasers or it cant register the spectrum of these colors.
> 
> I will try raw profile.


Colorimeters are different. Those don’t have the limitations of spectral bandwidth per se like spectroradiometers do. That is why you can profile a colorimeter to a spectro and get near identical results. Colorimeters are just much faster at reading than Spectros so that is why people use them and profile them to a high-quality spectro like the JETI. 

If they are told from a spectro that this color is that, then you are good to go! Of course there are good and bad quality Colorimeters but ones like the SpectraCal C6, i1D3 and Klein K10A of course are a good enough quality that they work well when profiled with a good spectro. A spyder on the other hand……


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> Colorimeters are different. Those don’t have the limitations of spectral bandwidth per se like spectroradiometers do. That is why you can profile a colorimeter to a spectro and get near identical results. Colorimeters are just much faster at reading than Spectros so that is why people use them and profile them to a high-quality spectro like the JETI.
> 
> If they are told from a spectro that this color is that, then you are good to go! Of course there are good and bad quality Colorimeters but ones like the SpectraCal C6, i1D3 and Klein K10A of course are a good enough quality that they work well when profiled with a good spectro. A spyder on the other hand……


I m asking because my C6 is reading 80% bt2020 and after 3dlut it was 70% and another time 50% , so definitely something wrong, maybe its just having the correct profile.


----------



## Aztar35

tnaik4 said:


> I m asking because my C6 is reading 80% bt2020 and after 3dlut it was 70% and another time 50% , so definitely something wrong, maybe its just having the correct profile.


Hi, John. Which colors are dropping off?


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> We have very limited time to do these and don’t want the review to be too many pages long so some things aren’t done for brevity’s sake. With RGB laser as you lower the peak power the black floor stays the same so contrast reduces. We wanted to show the best you can achieve for each mode.


That can't be right unless the laser power really doesn't change at all. But @kraine measured the input power truly changes with the laser modes. I understand the limited time though but this might be interesting to know at least for dedicated spaces that might not want all the lumens 👍


Dave Harper said:


> That’s something we need to ask Fengmi regarding the DV contrast. I was shocked too. We may try to investigate further next week and update our review.


Your measurements should tell where the difference comes. White or black level, or both?


Dave Harper said:


> *I believe gamut % is post calibration iirc* and if it’s lower it’s due to what I say in every review. I prioritize accurate color sweeps over total gamut peak coverage. So if the 100% point suffers so I can get all the other points below it accurate, then so be it.
> 
> HDR Post cal color gamut shows just 50% saturation points.


Sorry, I meant to ask what were the measured color gamuts as a percentage? BT2020, P3 and Rec709. I can't see those at all in the review. Not in the charts or in the text.

What use is just the 50% sat points? 🤔


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve been noodling about the idea of offering profiling once we get our Jeti 1511.
> Of course it could only be done based on the same model of projector that we have on hand (which is pretty much every UST) so there may be slight variances to the unit still at customers house.
> Someone could send us the colorimeter and we can profile it to the projector in question and then send back.
> Not sure how much interest there is for that out there, nor what price it would be worth to someone.
> *Would love to hear some thoughts*


Maybe, you can offer two types of calibration services:

1) Meter calibration. For enthusiasts who have their own meters and wish to perform their own calibrations, calibrate their meters to a reference meter.

2) Advance model-specific calibration for settings via email. This one may be a little more tricky. Since the laser light source on these UST is more stable than lamp though, there should be less unit-to-unit variance. A customer who purchases this option from your company could fill out a form to give you specific details (UST model, room type, screen type, gain and size), where you then use the information to calibrate on your same model to email the calibrated settings to the customer. I suppose you could offer a day and night settings option too.


----------



## MDesigns

@kraine your review shows nicely the impact of different laser levels to the lumens. But how about contrast? There is only one number on the line. Is it measured with the highest level and is the result same with the lower levels? Thanks!


----------



## tnaik4

Aztar35 said:


> Hi, John. Which colors are dropping off?


The color volume is dropping, magenta mainly is going crazy lol, although ita obvious the T1 can even exceed bt2020 magenta, i m still trying to find a good profilr for my meter.
I m doing some research to see which affordable meter is best for UST triple laser


----------



## Movie_geek

Aztar35 said:


> Maybe, you can offer two types of calibration services:
> 
> 1) Meter calibration. For enthusiasts who have their own meters and wish to perform their own calibrations, calibrate their meters to a reference meter.
> 
> *2) Advance model-specific calibration for settings via email. This one may be a little more tricky. Since the laser light source on these UST is more stable than lamp though, there should be less unit-to-unit variance. A customer who purchases this option from your company could fill out a form to give you specific details (UST model, room type, screen type, gain and size), where you then use the information to calibrate on your same model to email the calibrated settings to the customer. I suppose you could offer a day and night settings option too.*



I'd find a lot of value in 2. As someone who loves a big screen but isn't obsessed over a 100% accurate calibration if there was a fairly straightforward service that could get me 80% of the way that would be perfect and i'd be happy to pay for it.


----------



## Diarf22

Movie_geek said:


> I'd find a lot of value in 2. As someone who loves a big screen but isn't obsessed over a 100% accurate calibration if there was a fairly straightforward service that could get me 80% of the way that would be perfect and i'd be happy to pay for it.


I'm quite interested in the Formovie Theater and have yet to see a high contrast RGB laser projector, so to be fair there's a good chance Brian will get my business if I decide to buy one. That said, I live close by in North Jersey and that 2nd option would likely guarantee my business for projector purchases.

Like you, getting most of the way there and just enjoying my purchase would go a long way for me.


----------



## Mikenificent1

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is our review; get it while it's hot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)
> 
> 
> Introduction We are excited to be working with Formovie on the launch of their latest and greatest projector, the Formovie Theater here in the USA. There has been a lot of buzz around this particular model based on it's predecessor, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3301001


Does the speckle suppression seem to work? Does it have less speckle than other tri laser UST’s?


----------



## rjyap

tnaik4 said:


> The color volume is dropping, magenta mainly is going crazy lol, although ita obvious the T1 can even exceed bt2020 magenta, i m still trying to find a good profilr for my meter.
> I m doing some research to see which affordable meter is best for UST triple laser


If you can get a calibrator to borrow/rent a spectrometer that would be the cheapest option but provided you do not change your projector frequently. If not next best option would be getting i1 Pro 2 or i1 Pro 3.


----------



## arsenalfc89

tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper when u measure a triple laser rgb, what meter profile do u use, i have the i1d3 and i feel its not working correctly with triple laser.


Rent a CR-300. That's what I did to calibrate my AWOL.


----------



## arsenalfc89

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve been noodling about the idea of offering profiling once we get our Jeti 1511.
> Of course it could only be done based on the same model of projector that we have on hand (which is pretty much every UST) so there may be slight variances to the unit still at customers house.
> Someone could send us the colorimeter and we can profile it to the projector in question and then send back.
> Not sure how much interest there is for that out there, nor what price it would be worth to someone.
> Would love to hear some thoughts


I'll be up for this especially now that laser projectors are becoming the norm. Get ahead of the curve lol.


----------



## ProjectionHead

arsenalfc89 said:


> Rent a CR-300. That's what I did to calibrate my AWOL.


Curious, how much did the rental cost and how long did you get it for?
Thanks!


----------



## arsenalfc89

ProjectionHead said:


> Curious, how much did the rental cost and how long did you get it for?
> Thanks!


$1600 with expedited shipping for 1 week. This rental came with a CR-100 as well. Good long term investment as I continue to upgrade projectors down the road.


----------



## aerodynamics

@ProjectionHead Have you been able to hammer out plans for warranty work with Formovie, should the Theater need servicing? Will it need to be sent back to China?


----------



## ProjectionHead

aerodynamics said:


> @ProjectionHead Have you been able to hammer out plans for warranty work with Formovie, should the Theater need servicing? Will it need to be sent back to China?


They are working on setting up a USA service center as we speak. If item is DOA or defective upon receipt; we’ll take it back and swap for a new one


----------



## kraine

MDesigns said:


> @kraine your review shows nicely the impact of different laser levels to the lumens. But how about contrast? There is only one number on the line. Is it measured with the highest level and is the result same with the lower levels? Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 3301442


The dynamic contrast (all levels) does not change the sequential contrast measurements, which is often the case with this type of projector.


----------



## tnaik4

kraine said:


> The dynamic contrast (all levels) does not change the sequential contrast measurements, which is often the case with this type of projector.


I dont think he meant about dynamic contrast, he is asking why u have 1 contrast nbr for calibrated mode, is the contrast in night mode the same in movie mode and the same in office mode ? Doesnt change at all ?


----------



## kraine

tnaik4 said:


> I dont think he meant about dynamic contrast, he is asking why u have 1 contrast nbr for calibrated mode, is the contrast in night mode the same in movie mode and the same in office mode ? Doesnt change at all ?


No, the brightness level does not change anything. The sequential contrast measurement is a ratio between the black level and the white level. If you decrease the light power, you lower the black value but also the white value, so the contrast remains the same.


----------



## tnaik4

kraine said:


> No, the brightness level does not change anything. The sequential contrast measurement is a ratio between the black level and the white level. If you decrease the light power, you lower the black value but also the white value, so the contrast remains the same.


Yes exactly but what we are saying is the drop in black-white level is not the same, you even have in the same table contrast nbrs for different modes and the contrast is different for each mode, so by what ur saying it should be the same contrast nbr accross all since if one mode is brighter the black level should be equally btighter.


----------



## kraine

I assure you that the contrast measurement remains the same. This is not only the case with this projector but with all the ones I test.


----------



## Dave Harper

MDesigns said:


> That can't be right unless the laser power really doesn't change at all. But @kraine measured the input power truly changes with the laser modes. I understand the limited time though but this might be interesting to know at least for dedicated spaces that might not want all the lumens
> Your measurements should tell where the difference comes. White or black level, or both?
> 
> Sorry, I meant to ask what were the measured color gamuts as a percentage? BT2020, P3 and Rec709. I can't see those at all in the review. Not in the charts or in the text.
> 
> What use is just the 50% sat points?





MDesigns said:


> @kraine your review shows nicely the impact of different laser levels to the lumens. But how about contrast? There is only one number on the line. Is it measured with the highest level and is the result same with the lower levels? Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 3301442





kraine said:


> The dynamic contrast (all levels) does not change the sequential contrast measurements, which is often the case with this type of projector.





kraine said:


> No, the brightness level does not change anything. The sequential contrast measurement is a ratio between the black level and the white level. If you decrease the light power, you lower the black value but also the white value, so the contrast remains the same.





tnaik4 said:


> Yes exactly but what we are saying is the drop in black-white level is not the same, you even have in the same table contrast nbrs for different modes and the contrast is different for each mode, so by what ur saying it should be the same contrast nbr accross all since if one mode is brighter the black level should be equally btighter.





kraine said:


> I assure you that the contrast measurement remains the same. This is not only the case with this projector but with all the ones I test.


This is not what I measured. Here are the sequential contrast charts with each mode measured. You can clearly see that the black floor stays the same at 0.024 nits, but the peak top end laser reading reduces, hence REDUCING the contrast _ratio_. You can see the last one for Dolby Vision is the lowest, and that baffles me. 

*Disregard the 0:1 contrast readings. It must be a glitch, maybe because I don’t have my meter or generator connected when I opened this to take the pictures. You can calculate it yourself with the numbers to see. 


































































I have seen this characteristic on every RGB laser UST I can recall. The only one I recall seeing the black floor go down was the Epson LS11000/12000’s in Dynamic Color Mode, and those aren’t RGB lasers. They’re blue laser phosphor.


----------



## kraine

Sorry Dave, I have to disagree with you on this one. Every time I lower or raise the light power and do a contrast measurement again, I fall back on my feet.


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> Sorry Dave, I have to disagree with you on this one. Every time I lower or raise the light power and do a contrast measurement again, I fall back on my feet.


Are you talking between Office, Viewing and Night Modes, or these picture modes I’ve clearly measured and shown above? Maybe there’s just a misunderstanding or miscommunication between what we are discussing here?

If you disagree, please show me YOUR charts.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> Are you talking between Office, Viewing and Night Modes, or these picture modes I’ve clearly measured and shown above? Maybe there’s just a misunderstanding or miscommunication between what we are discussing here?
> 
> If you disagree, please show me YOUR charts.


We are talking about different brightness mode between Office, View, Night and Silent which does change the laser output strength and reduce the black floor. I believe Dave is talking about different picture mode such as movie, sport, game and custom. That of course didn’t change the black floor as it only affect RGB light balance thus having higher temperature color will normally increase the brightness without lowering the black.


----------



## Demetri Zuev

Any news on official start of shipping date?


----------



## players123hoppy

i would also be interested in that, I've been waiting for over a month. i live in austria!


----------



## Aztar35

Dave Harper said:


> This is not what I measured.
> 
> I have seen this characteristic on every RGB laser UST I can recall. The only one I recall seeing the black floor go down was the Epson LS11000/12000’s in Dynamic Color Mode, and those aren’t RGB lasers. They’re blue laser phosphor.


So the best sequential contrast figure you measured on the Theater was 3,308:1?

By the way, Dave, very quickly off topic, how are you liking the LS12000?


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> Sorry Dave, I have to disagree with you on this one. Every time I lower or raise the light power and do a contrast measurement again, I fall back on my feet.





Dave Harper said:


> Are you talking between Office, Viewing and Night Modes, or these picture modes I’ve clearly measured and shown above? Maybe there’s just a misunderstanding or miscommunication between what we are discussing here?
> 
> If you disagree, please show me YOUR charts.


Gregory, I think there's some confusion here. Dave is talking about modes that increase the white value/cd/m2 not about discrete laser power input. Recall, your own chart showed this too, as tnaik pointed out. If the black floor is 0.024 but the ceiling varies up to 79.4, how can the sequential reading up to that threshold not be impacted?


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> We are talking about different brightness mode between Office, View, Night and Silent which does change the laser output strength and reduce the black floor. I believe Dave is talking about different picture mode such as movie, sport, game and custom. *That of course didn’t change the black floor as it only affect RGB light balance *thus having higher temperature color will normally increase the brightness without lowering the black.





Aztar35 said:


> Gregory, I think there's some confusion here. Dave is talking about modes that increase the white value/cd/m2 not about discrete laser power input. Recall, your own chart showed this too, as tnaik pointed out. If the black floor is 0.024 but the ceiling varies up to 79.4, how can the sequential reading up to that threshold not be impacted?


Yes but what people fail to realize is that with RGB laser projectors, the color source and the light source are ONE IN THE SAME, so any time you lower one, say green or blue, then the light output MUST also lower as well, unless they engineer in some amazing laser color modulation or God knows what, like the Christie’s do apparently, but that would add substantial costs I’m sure. 



Aztar35 said:


> So the best sequential contrast figure you measured on the Theater was 3,308:1?
> 
> By the way, Dave, very quickly off topic, how are you liking the LS12000?


Yeah it was about that. I’m not sure how @kraine got 3,900:1? All other measurements I’ve seen were all around 3,000-3,500:1. 

LS12000 is nice and deserving of the praise, especially for its price. It has a more “organic” look to it, as LCDs do. I put up my trusty ole LK990 right after and I have to say I still prefer that! I almost forget how incredible that thing is, especially with HDR!!!


----------



## kraine

What's the point of me sending you my statements since even when I send them to you you doubt them. Like this Formovie Theater contrast measurement I sent to Brian and that he resend to you.


----------



## tnaik4

Guys on a white screen, when i try to measure should i angle my meter down alittle to make up for the extreem ust angle or keep it at 90 degree?
When i angle it down to 45 degree i get almot double the light output, u guess since white screen doesnt reflect the light back at the viewer, but i m not sure which meter angle i should use.


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> Guys on a white screen, when i try to measure should i angle my meter down alittle to make up for the extreem ust angle or keep it at 90 degree?
> When i angle it down to 45 degree i get almot double the light output, u guess since white screen doesnt reflect the light back at the viewer, but i m not sure which meter angle i should use.


You should use the angle that gives you the brightest measurements. That should be an initial step when setting up your meter. 

I usually go to a workflow in CalMAN that has a 100% patch with fL or cdm/2 nit reading and then put it on constant read and slowly move the meter until it hits the peak.


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> What's the point of me sending you my statements since even when I send them to you you doubt them. Like this Formovie Theater contrast measurement I sent to Brian and that he resend to you.


No need to get hostile. We are just trying to come to an understanding and find the answers which benefit us ALL!

I’m not doubting your measurements or what you’re posting. I’m trying to find out HOW you got them, so we can ALL replicate them!


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> You should use the angle that gives you the brightest measurements. That should be an initial step when setting up your meter.
> 
> I usually go to a workflow in CalMAN that has a 100% patch with fL or cdm/2 nit reading and then put it on constant read and slowly move the meter until it hits the peak.


The angle that gives the brightest measurement is 45 degree but thats not representative of the viewing angle, thats like standing next to the screen and looking down, and thats giving me a hard time deciding what nits number to use in MadVR, i m new to USTs, this is my first, totally different from regular throw projectors.


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> Like this Formovie Theater contrast measurement


Nice. I saw that in your chart. That really is a great number for the UST platform. I have more and more interest in this projector.


----------



## Aztar35

tnaik4 said:


> The angle that gives the brightest measurement is 45 degree but thats not representative of the viewing angle, thats like standing next to the screen and looking down, and thats giving me a hard time deciding what nits number to use in MadVR, i m new to USTs, this is my first, totally different from regular throw projectors.


What are the readings you're coming up with off the screen?


----------



## tnaik4

Aztar35 said:


> What are the readings you're coming up with off the screen?


Depends on the angle of the meter, thats what comfusing me, if i use the meter at 90 degrees, i get 100 nits, if i use 45 degree angle i get around 180 nits, so u can see its a big difference just from changing the angle, because i m using a regular white 1.1 gain screen.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> Yes but what people fail to realize is that with RGB laser projectors, the color source and the light source are ONE IN THE SAME, so any time you lower one, say green or blue, then the light output MUST also lower as well, unless they engineer in some amazing laser color modulation or God knows what, like the Christie’s do apparently, but that would add substantial costs I’m sure.


Theoretically you are right that RGB laser light timing might lower the black floor when reduce any color but I'm are not sure how's the timing between laser light and DLP chip is being programmed.


----------



## rjyap

tnaik4 said:


> Guys on a white screen, when i try to measure should i angle my meter down alittle to make up for the extreem ust angle or keep it at 90 degree?
> When i angle it down to 45 degree i get almot double the light output, u guess since white screen doesnt reflect the light back at the viewer, but i m not sure which meter angle i should use.


I measure with meter pointing down. Reason is I try to avoid reading the shadow based on the meter FOV. I'm not worry on nits reading but more on color balance. Does changing the angle shift the white color balance?


----------



## tnaik4

rjyap said:


> I measure with meter pointing down. Reason is I try to avoid reading the shadow based on the meter FOV. I'm not worry on nits reading but more on color balance. Does changing the angle shift the white color balance?


I need to test it again, but i dont think it changes it, the reason i need the nits number to know what to input in MadVR for dtm.
I m not worried much now about calibration since i m not sure what profile is accurate with my meter , trying to eye ball it when i do greyscal with the meter to see if it looks natural or any color push.
What i m thinking of doing is put up side by side my other projector which is fully calibrated and compare the grey scale and see which profile gets me closest to the calibrated image.


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> Yes but what people fail to realize is that with RGB laser projectors, the color source and the light source are ONE IN THE SAME, so any time you lower one, say green or blue, then the light output MUST also lower as well, unless they engineer in some amazing laser color modulation or God knows what, like the Christie’s do apparently, but that would add substantial costs I’m sure.


I think you are mixing things yourself. If the black level doesn't change with the different picture modes and calibration, that IMO means the laser power is constant. All the colors are done with different PWM of the DLP chip, not modulating the lasers.

Laser power is only modulated in the lower power modes night and visualisation, if it works like @kraine said and it drops the black level also. Contrast in these modes we haven't seen yet, but kraine said it is the same so that is good!


----------



## Joered101

Y:0.037 black level on the Fengmi Theatre, to get an idea of this. How does it stack up again say a Epson 6050/9400 l, so I can reference something I know?
Just wondering what kind of black floor that creates. Does anyone know or experiences those two to have a good idea?
As @kraine had in the ballpark of 4000/5000:1 CR on the Epson on his blog which isn’t far off the Fengmi. Are they that close in term of black level!?


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> Depends on the angle of the meter, thats what comfusing me, if i use the meter at 90 degrees, i get 100 nits, if i use 45 degree angle i get around 180 nits, so u can see its a big difference just from changing the angle, because i m using a regular white 1.1 gain screen.


I get the same effect when using an ALR/CLR screen. 



rjyap said:


> Theoretically you are right that RGB laser light timing might lower the black floor when reduce any color but I'm are not sure how's the timing between laser light and DLP chip is being programmed.


I think that’s what I was trying to get at when I mentioned having to do special modulation and processing which would add a lot of costs, especially on the engineering side. 



MDesigns said:


> I think you are mixing things yourself. If the black level doesn't change with the different picture modes and calibration, that IMO means the laser power is constant. All the colors are done with different PWM of the DLP chip, not modulating the lasers…..


All good points. How can the laser power be constant if the top end lowers so much? I highly doubt that’s DLP chip modulation alone. The laser can only go so low, so that’s the black “floor”. Any lowering beyond that when you lower laser power is just decreasing light reflections in the light path because less light is going through and being bounced around. 

Are you confusing lamp based color wheel designs with true RGB lasers? Yes the PWM of the chip has a lot to do with color but since it’s the light source as well (and not a white lamp), the power of the lasers come into play too and if you lower them, contrast suffers. 

I don’t for a second portend to be a DLP guru, but based on the measurements I take and show this seems to be the case. I wish @Ruined could chime in. 

I think we have to throw out most of what we know about DLP with lamps and color wheels when it comes to RGB laser designs. 



rjyap said:


> ….Laser power is only modulated in the lower power modes night and visualisation, if it works like @kraine said and it drops the black level also. Contrast in these modes we haven't seen yet, but kraine said it is the same so that is good!


Yeah I’ll have to check that when I get a chance.


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> All good points. How can the laser power be constant if the top end lowers so much? I highly doubt that’s DLP chip modulation alone. The laser can only go so low, so that’s the black “floor”. Any lowering beyond that when you lower laser power is just decreasing light reflections in the light path because less light is going through and being bounced around.
> 
> Are you confusing lamp based color wheel designs with true RGB lasers? Yes the PWM of the chip has a lot to do with color but since it’s the light source as well (and not a white lamp), the power of the lasers come into play too and if you lower them, contrast suffers.
> 
> I don’t for a second portend to be a DLP guru, but based on the measurements I take and show this seems to be the case. I wish @Ruined could chime in.
> 
> I think we have to throw out most of what we know about DLP with lamps and color wheels when it comes to RGB laser designs.
> 
> Yeah I’ll have to check that when I get a chance.


I don't think the laser(RGB) power or timing can be changed to create any of the colors since all blue pixels and all reds and all greens have to be drawn at the same time for the whole frame. Laser can not be modulated for each individual pixel.

I also haven't designed these units, but I think it's still more or less the same basic DLP technique as with the color wheel, just better. Faster cycling and better colors. Native contrast is in the same league as the newer color wheel units too.


----------



## Aztar35

Joered101 said:


> Y:0.037 black level on the Fengmi Theatre, to get an idea of this. How does it stack up again say a Epson 6050/9400 l, so I can reference something I know?
> Just wondering what kind of black floor that creates. Does anyone know or experiences those two to have a good idea?
> As @kraine had in the ballpark of 4000/5000:1 CR on the Epson on his blog which isn’t far off the Fengmi. Are they that close in term of black level!?


Perhaps the brightness also tricks the eyes into thinking the black levels are better than they are. For example, I have a Sim2 Lumis that measures over 5,000:1 native sequential contrast but my Xiaomi Laser C2's sequential contrast looks better onscreen for a lot of darker scenes. The Laser C2's sequential contrast is very similar to the Formovie Theater's as measured by Gregory. Here is what I myself measured on my Xiaomi Laser C2 and this was its black value.


----------



## Aztar35

MDesigns said:


> I don't think the laser(RGB) power or timing can be changed to create any of the colors since all blue pixels and all reds and all greens have to be drawn at the same time for the whole frame. Laser can not be modulated for each individual pixel.
> 
> I also haven't designed these units, but I think it's still more or less the same basic DLP technique as with the color wheel, just better. Faster cycling and better colors. Native contrast is in the same league as the newer color wheel units too.


The laser intensity of one color can increase. For example, we know that the color green has a frequency up 570 nm. We know that the more green, the more there is an increase in lumen output. So let's say the laser power level stays the same, picture modes that heavily drive green or even blue will increase lumen output.


----------



## Ricoflashback

So I guess the earlier estimation of availability of the International T1 is still mid-July?


----------



## MDesigns

Aztar35 said:


> The laser intensity of one color can increase. For example, we know that the color green has a frequency up 570 nm. We know that the more green, the more there is an increase in lumen output. So let's say the laser power level stays the same, picture modes that heavily drive green or even blue will increase lumen output.


I am not sure what you mean with the laser intensity here? Wouldn't that show with black also? There is probably nothing preventing driving the lasers differently in different picture modes, but the black level staying the same imo points to the direction they are not doing it. So the lumen difference between the modes probably comes from mixing more green to the image with the DLP chip modulation. Light source being just a light source, just divided to three dedicated sources.


----------



## Dave Harper

MDesigns said:


> I don't think the laser(RGB) power or timing can be changed to create any of the colors since all blue pixels and all reds and all greens have to be drawn at the same time for the whole frame. Laser can not be modulated for each individual pixel.
> 
> I also haven't designed these units, but I think it's still more or less the same basic DLP technique as with the color wheel, just better. Faster cycling and better colors. Native contrast is in the same league as the newer color wheel units too.


I don't believe I am talking about per pixel, of course. This is a projector so that is not going to happen anywhere near this price range. Even Eclipse doesn't do this, but it is dual modulated with a 1920x1080 panel on top of the 4K panel.



MDesigns said:


> I am not sure what you mean with the laser intensity here? Wouldn't that show with black also? There is probably nothing preventing driving the lasers differently in different picture modes, but the black level staying the same imo points to the direction they are not doing it. So the lumen difference between the modes probably comes from mixing more green to the image with the DLP chip modulation.......


I think I see where our disconnect is. I am not sure who is on the right track here and correct, but I believe you are coming at it with the thought that the 3 laser's peak power remains constant and then only the DLP mirrors modulate to give peak brightness and the lowest black floor. Is this correct?

My belief is that the 3 lasers themselves are each driven harder or weaker on the top end brightness side, depending on which mode you're in. So the black floor remains constant while the harder the lasers are driven, the brighter the TOP END gets. Hence giving these higher contrast ratios I am measuring and seeing as confirmation of my thoughts, no?




MDesigns said:


> ....... Light source being just a light source, just divided to three dedicated sources.


I am under the understanding that each laser light source is modulated and powered separately to change the primary color mixtures to get you to the desired color temperature, and brightness. They aren't each driven the same and at a constant, creating white light as a lamp or blue laser phosphor would do.

I may be wrong in all this of course, but I don't think so based on the testing and measurements I've done on these RGB laser USTs. I will ask @ProjectionHead if maybe I can get contact info for one of the engineers so I can get a clearer answer, unless you happen to have some technical documentation to share and we can refer to?


----------



## Aztar35

MDesigns said:


> I am not sure what you mean with the laser intensity here? *Wouldn't that show with black also*? There is probably nothing preventing driving the lasers differently in different picture modes, but the black level staying the same imo points to the direction they are not doing it. So the lumen difference between the modes probably comes from mixing more green to the image with the DLP chip modulation. Light source being just a light source, just divided to three dedicated sources.


I'm not so sure that's always the case. It can be that some projectors have a black screen threshold, in other words, a set black screen brightness before FFTB, impacting contrast. I've seen something similar on the Optoma UHZ65. The more I lowered laser power, the more sequential contrast I lost. I didn't measure it on lower laser power, but what can cause that is when black hardly budges while the white ceiling lowers.


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> I think I see where our disconnect is. I am not sure who is on the right track here and correct, but I believe you are coming at it with the thought that the 3 laser's peak power remains constant and then only the DLP mirrors modulate to give peak brightness and the lowest black floor. Is this correct?


Yes, that is my current belief, you are correct there.


Dave Harper said:


> My belief is that the 3 lasers themselves are each driven harder or weaker on the top end brightness side, depending on which mode you're in. So the black floor remains constant while the harder the lasers are driven, the brighter the TOP END gets. Hence giving these higher contrast ratios I am measuring and seeing as confirmation of my thoughts, no?


This is where I disagree currently, but happy to be corrected if we found some real technical info. I am not sure how you could drive the lasers differently "only on the top end brightness side"? What happens if you have half screen full red and half screen black? I believe this would also show in black level going up or down, but maybe it doesn't.


Dave Harper said:


> I am under the understanding that each laser light source is modulated and powered separately to change the primary color mixtures to get you to the desired color temperature, and brightness. They aren't each driven the same and at a constant, creating white light as a lamp or blue laser phosphor would do.
> 
> I may be wrong in all this of course, but I don't think so based on the testing and measurements I've done on these RGB laser USTs. I will ask @ProjectionHead if maybe I can get contact info for one of the engineers so I can get a clearer answer, unless you happen to have some technical documentation to share and we can refer to?


I agree that it would be nice and great if the calibration of the modes changed the actual laser power/intensity of the dedicated lasers, but so far it looks to me that it behaves exactly like the laser phosphor units. Or do you disagree on this? What way does it work differently? I am just looking at the different measurements here and can't see any difference. They also lose native contrast and lumens the same way when calibrating.


----------



## Dave Harper

MDesigns said:


> Yes, that is my current belief, you are correct there.


OK cool. At least we are on the same page now. 



MDesigns said:


> This is where I disagree currently, but happy to be corrected if we found some real technical info. I am not sure how you could drive the lasers differently "only on the top end brightness side"? What happens if you have half screen full red and half screen black? I believe this would also show in black level going up or down, but maybe it doesn't.


As would I!

When I say top end brightness side I only mean power but wanted to express how the lower part stays the same but the upper end increases. Like audio when you increase volume. The off state stays the same while the amplitude of the sound increases. This increase CAN increase low level noise at the bottom end, but that’s a side effect of raising volume too high, similar to what I’m saying about internal light reflections in the optical system increasing black floor if the high end is raised to much. 

My belief is that since this is a sequential system using a single chip, then the black and red aren’t rendered at the same time, but appear to be so in perception. The same as how the colors are reproduced. 

I agree an engineer or someone who knows these designs better than I is warranted. Maybe @ARROW-AV or @Alan Gouger knows more since they’ve had a great hand in developing triple laser designs with the Eclipse and Griffyn?




MDesigns said:


> I agree that it would be nice and great if the calibration of the modes changed the actual laser power/intensity of the dedicated lasers, but so far it looks to me that it behaves exactly like the laser phosphor units. Or do you disagree on this? What way does it work differently? I am just looking at the different measurements here and can't see any difference. They also lose native contrast and lumens the same way when calibrating.


But blue laser phosphor is completely different. It uses the blue laser shining on phosphor (wheel or static, usually yellow) to create the illumination/light needed and to be shone through the color source, in the case of DLP that’s a color wheel, or LCDs using prisms. This basically replicates a lamp and replaces it. In other words, these have two separate devices to create a colored light source on your screen, the laser exciting the phosphor which creates the light, whose light is shown through the color wheel (or prisms), creating the colors. 

With RGB lasers, they are one in the same and are the light source AND the color source simultaneously, so only the three colored lasers are needed to create light AND color at the same time. So the engineering must be completely different than a lamp/laser phosphor design. 

I always loved these graphics which explain a lot of it:









Laser Technologies - Laser Projectors


Light generated with laser diodes inherently have a longer and more stable brightness level that decreases at a much slower rate than...




www.sharpnecdisplays.eu


----------



## Ricoflashback

Asked in the other T1 thread, as well:

An "off the wall" question - pun intended. When I get my International T1 - initially, I'll be using a light beige wall to project the image on. Short term solution as I intend on buying a cheaper screen (should be better than a wall) as we are renting and I'll invest in a better screen when we buy a house. Out of the box settings for projecting the T1 on a wall? I know there are going to be imperfections but I thought I'd ask.


----------



## Dave Harper

@MDesigns, I saw this when reading the Projector Central Review of the new Sony XW5000ES:

_"Those prior models apparently relied on HDR program metadata to establish a baseline tone-map before performing frame-by-frame analysis and adjusting the image *using a combination of laser modulation*, pixel level processing, and in some models a dynamic iris. But Sony says its projectors that use the X1 Ultimate for Projector processor, including the new XW5000ES and its higher end siblings the XW6000ES and XW7000ES, eschew program metadata and perform only frame-by-frame dynamic HDR tone-mapping. Furthermore, according to Sony none of the new XW series projectors have a dynamic iris, *so all the work is done by the laser* and pixel processing."_

From here:
Sony VPL-XW5000ES Laser Projector Review (projectorcentral.com)

So I am confused as to why you believe the laser power is constant and not modulated?


----------



## humax

AWOL Vision 3500 vs Formovie Theater T1, HDR 10+ test - YouTube 

AWOL Vision 3500 vs Formovie Theater T1, HDR 10+ test.


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> @MDesigns, I saw this when reading the Projector Central Review of the new Sony XW5000ES:
> 
> _"Those prior models apparently relied on HDR program metadata to establish a baseline tone-map before performing frame-by-frame analysis and adjusting the image *using a combination of laser modulation*, pixel level processing, and in some models a dynamic iris. But Sony says its projectors that use the X1 Ultimate for Projector processor, including the new XW5000ES and its higher end siblings the XW6000ES and XW7000ES, eschew program metadata and perform only frame-by-frame dynamic HDR tone-mapping. Furthermore, according to Sony none of the new XW series projectors have a dynamic iris, *so all the work is done by the laser* and pixel processing."_
> 
> From here:
> Sony VPL-XW5000ES Laser Projector Review (projectorcentral.com)
> 
> So I am confused as to why you believe the laser power is constant and not modulated?


That is different type of unit and different feature, Sony and JVC LCOS laser units are laser phosphor and have dynamic laser dimming. They do laser modulation if you turn on dynamic laser dimming, in native mode they do not. Dynamic laser dimming lowers the black levels in dark scenes but of course also dims the highlights so it is compromise. It tries to mimic dynamic iris on lamp projectors. Dynamic laser dimming is probably easier to do with only single laser, since the RGB laser units I have seen doesn't have that feature?


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> With RGB lasers, they are one in the same and are the light source AND the color source simultaneously, so only the three colored lasers are needed to create light AND color at the same time. So the engineering must be completely different than a lamp/laser phosphor design.
> 
> I always loved these graphics which explain a lot of it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laser Technologies - Laser Projectors
> 
> 
> Light generated with laser diodes inherently have a longer and more stable brightness level that decreases at a much slower rate than...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sharpnecdisplays.eu


Tech is different of course! But are the basic working principles different? I don't think so. Red, green and blue flashes sequentially and the dlp chip flashes the mirrors to create the image. It's a miracle that it works though and looks good 😎

Nice animations! Too bad they don't have one with RGB laser and single-chip! I believe it actually simplifies the tech. Simplified all the mirrors and both wheels are replaced just with three lasers that flash sequentially. How cool!


----------



## Dave Harper

MDesigns said:


> That is different type of unit and different feature, Sony and JVC LCOS laser units are laser phosphor and have dynamic laser dimming. They do laser modulation if you turn on dynamic laser dimming, in native mode they do not. Dynamic laser dimming lowers the black levels in dark scenes but of course also dims the highlights so it is compromise. It tries to mimic dynamic iris on lamp projectors. Dynamic laser dimming is probably easier to do with only single laser, since the RGB laser units I have seen doesn't have that feature?


Yes I understand that. I’ll have to recheck my records to see what the RGB lasers I’ve calibrated have and what they do. 



MDesigns said:


> Tech is different of course! But are the basic working principles different? I don't think so. Red, green and blue flashes sequentially and the dlp chip flashes the mirrors to create the image. It's a miracle that it works though and looks good
> 
> Nice animations! Too bad they don't have one with RGB laser and single-chip! I believe it actually simplifies the tech. Simplified all the mirrors and both wheels are replaced just with three lasers that flash sequentially. How cool!
> 
> View attachment 3303276


So you don’t think each laser dims and modulates as it is flashed into the DLP imager? If they can dim the blue laser for laser phosphor designs then why do you think they can’t do it for all three colored lasers?

I think we are at an impasse until we can get more in depth info from someone within the engineering or manufacturing process itself. 

Hopefully at least @ARROW-AV or @Alan Gouger can reply with more in depth info. 

I have a direct contact with AWOL and I think Fengmi engineers, so maybe I’ll hit them up.


----------



## MDesigns

Dave Harper said:


> So you don’t think each laser dims and modulates as it is flashed into the DLP imager? If they can dim the blue laser for laser phosphor designs then why do you think they can’t do it for all three colored lasers?


They could, but I don't think they do based on yours and others reviews. I haven't seen a dynamic laser dimming on any RGB laser units. It's probably harder to do than with a single laser, I guess the white balance could go off pretty easily if the lasers are not linear. But probably doable with some calibration tables. Or maybe they don't think it is worth it?

Just remembered there are RGB LED units that have dynamic dimming. At least the Benq HT9060 and the old Sim2 Micos. So they have done something similar. Formovie Theaters native contrast is similar to Benq's dynamic contrast, so with little dynamic dimming the Theater would probably look even more awesome even in the darker scenes.


----------



## Dave Harper

So to sum it all up to this point, you think all the peak brightness measurements and their differences in each mode that I showed above is totally only related to the modulation of the DLP mirrors giving such different peak white numbers while the black level is maintaining the same?

Hopefully we will find out soon enough because my interest level is very piqued at this point.


----------



## Brajesh

humax said:


> AWOL Vision 3500 vs Formovie Theater T1, HDR 10+ test - YouTube
> 
> AWOL Vision 3500 vs Formovie Theater T1, HDR 10+ test.


Wow, the AWOL seems to blow T1 out of the water on this. But, HDR10+ also seems so less understood vs. DV... at least to me anyway .


----------



## Aztar35

Brajesh said:


> Wow, the AWOL seems to blow T1 out of the water on this. But, HDR10+ also seems so less understood vs. DV... at least to me anyway .


I personally thought the Formovie Theater looked better. Look at the scene where the fellow is doing a back flip and the bright sun is over head. I saw banding/solarization on the AWOL. Also, later in the clip, the woman in green doing gymnastics...it appeared that the Formovie had better intra-scene contrast/MTF there as you can make out her entire green suit against the brighter background. And I noticed more detail with the Formovie where I found the AWOL was occasionally blowing out highlights.


----------



## arsenalfc89

Brajesh said:


> Wow, the AWOL seems to blow T1 out of the water on this. But, HDR10+ also seems so less understood vs. DV... at least to me anyway .


I’m telling you the AWOL is that good but not sure if both are calibrated because the T1 seems very blue to me (I think it can get more accurate) and the AWOL seems to be in vivid mode. Also the brightness the AWOL can reach while maintaining accuracy really does show its prowess when watching HDR because most projectors become much dimmer when trying to hit D65.


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> Wow, the AWOL seems to blow T1 out of the water on this. But, HDR10+ also seems so less understood vs. DV... at least to me anyway .


It's tough to compare both projector thru the video as AWOL seems to blow the highlight but that could be due to the higher brightness. Plus the color temp is not balance for both projector. As we know AWOL video capture will tend to skew towards red/magenta and might trip the camera white balance but when put side by side, which white balance will the camera pick? Personally that's not what I see on a calibrated T1 as the picture looks too cool. If we ignore the calibration/settings issue, you can definitely see the advantage of higher contrast by T1. Look at the cheetah fur and green snake scale it looks more three dimensional to me.


----------



## Brajesh

Good points guys. I was reacting to color accuracy, which is better on AWOL, but I do notice the blown highlights on it as well. Problem w/Northingbutlabel's videos is we never get any context on how, under which conditions they test.


----------



## m0j0

Brajesh said:


> Wow, the AWOL seems to blow T1 out of the water on this. But, HDR10+ also seems so less understood vs. DV... at least to me anyway .


Both looked good to me...


----------



## rjyap

MDesigns said:


> Tech is different of course! But are the basic working principles different? I don't think so. Red, green and blue flashes sequentially and the dlp chip flashes the mirrors to create the image. It's a miracle that it works though and looks good 😎
> 
> Nice animations! Too bad they don't have one with RGB laser and single-chip! I believe it actually simplifies the tech. Simplified all the mirrors and both wheels are replaced just with three lasers that flash sequentially. How cool!
> 
> View attachment 3303276


If you check out the diagram posted by Humax, ALPD 4.0 is not just RGB but with an extra blue laser module + phosphor wheel. I think the question here is does tri-laser timed the RGB laser in fixed time sequence or variable? If it's fixed time, that would explain the same black floor regardless of the RGB balance. Personally I think the current implementation is fixed time sequence as it will be easier from engineering perspective (similar to lamp based or laser + color wheel) and only have to control the DLP chip timing sequence. In the future, if both DLP chip timing and Laser light timing could be synchronize, that should increase native contrast as what Dave have mention.











Above is ALPD 4.0 secret sauce compare to conventional RGB laser projector.



https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event-img/idw2020/PRJ5-02/public/pdf_archive?type=in


----------



## Aztar35

rjyap said:


> It's tough to compare both projector thru the video as AWOL seems to blow the highlight but that could be due to the higher brightness. *Plus the color temp is not balance for both projector*. As we know AWOL video capture will tend to skew towards red/magenta and might trip the camera white balance but when put side by side, which white balance will the camera pick? Personally that's not what I see on a calibrated T1 as the picture looks too cool. If we ignore the calibration/settings issue, you can definitely see the advantage of higher contrast by T1. Look at the cheetah fur and green snake scale it looks more three dimensional to me.


I assumed as much and why I said nothing about the color differences.


----------



## Demetri Zuev

About to receive my unit from NothingButLabel today. Is there a basic settings config to make it look good while I wait for a professional calibrator to come and do his job?


----------



## MDesigns

rjyap said:


> If you check out the diagram posted by Humax, ALPD 4.0 is not just RGB but with an extra blue laser module + phosphor wheel. I think the question here is does tri-laser timed the RGB laser in fixed time sequence or variable? If it's fixed time, that would explain the same black floor regardless of the RGB balance. Personally I think the current implementation is fixed time sequence as it will be easier from engineering perspective (similar to lamp based or laser + color wheel) and only have to control the DLP chip timing sequence. In the future, if both DLP chip timing and Laser light timing could be synchronize, that should increase native contrast as what Dave have mention.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3303367
> 
> 
> Above is ALPD 4.0 secret sauce compare to conventional RGB laser projector.
> 
> 
> 
> https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event-img/idw2020/PRJ5-02/public/pdf_archive?type=in


Awesome info! I have to think about this more later, I thought it was just RGB lasers. There is also confirmation for this on the appotronics site: https://en.appotronics.com/alpd_tech.html#page4


----------



## m0j0

Demetri Zuev said:


> About to receive my unit from NothingButLabel today. Is there a basic settings config to make it look good while I wait for a professional calibrator to come and do his job?


You can try the values from Gregory's review (I think he was using a vividstorm screen).








Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> If you check out the diagram posted by Humax, ALPD 4.0 is not just RGB but with an extra blue laser module + phosphor wheel. I think the question here is does tri-laser timed the RGB laser in fixed time sequence or variable? If it's fixed time, that would explain the same black floor regardless of the RGB balance. Personally I think the current implementation is fixed time sequence as it will be easier from engineering perspective (similar to lamp based or laser + color wheel) and only have to control the DLP chip timing sequence. In the future, if both DLP chip timing and Laser light timing could be synchronize, that should increase native contrast as what Dave have mention.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3303367
> 
> 
> Above is ALPD 4.0 secret sauce compare to conventional RGB laser projector.
> 
> 
> 
> https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event-img/idw2020/PRJ5-02/public/pdf_archive?type=in





MDesigns said:


> Awesome info! I have to think about this more later, I thought it was just RGB lasers. There is also confirmation for this on the appotronics site: ALPD<sup>®</sup>Technology - APPOTRONICS
> 
> View attachment 3303490


Yes amazing info and should help us all understand this more! Now I’ve got some reading to do.


----------



## tnaik4

Just watched yesterday Ambulance , what a reference quality image and even better audio, if u want a movie to showcase what the T1 can do, definitely get it, its a fun movie too.


----------



## m0j0

Been watching Formula 1: Drive to Survive on Netflix and it too looks fantastic on the T1!


----------



## Dave Harper

rjyap said:


> If you check out the diagram posted by Humax, ALPD 4.0 is not just RGB but with an extra blue laser module + phosphor wheel. I think the question here is does tri-laser timed the RGB laser in fixed time sequence or variable? If it's fixed time, that would explain the same black floor regardless of the RGB balance. Personally I think the current implementation is fixed time sequence as it will be easier from engineering perspective (similar to lamp based or laser + color wheel) and only have to control the DLP chip timing sequence. In the future, if both DLP chip timing and Laser light timing could be synchronize, that should increase native contrast as what Dave have mention.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3303367
> 
> 
> Above is ALPD 4.0 secret sauce compare to conventional RGB laser projector.
> 
> 
> 
> https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event-img/idw2020/PRJ5-02/public/pdf_archive?type=in


So after reading this paper, it seems to me that they’re adding a blue laser being excited by a yellow phosphor wheel, then this yellow incoherent light is combined with the pure RGB laser diode’s coherent light themselves. So the yellow phosphor light is acting as a yellow notch filter. Doing this I guess would achieve high color gamut, higher brightness and also reduces laser speckle exponentially. That’s quite awesome actually!

What I didn’t seem to pick up was how this process can increase contrast, although they do mention “speckle contrast”, so I wonder if those are related in that if you decrease speckle that can increase contrast?



MDesigns said:


> Awesome info! I have to think about this more later, I thought it was just RGB lasers. There is also confirmation for this on the appotronics site: ALPD<sup>®</sup>Technology - APPOTRONICS
> 
> View attachment 3303490


So it appears to me they are able to modulate the lasers, no?

_*3.2 Color Gamut*

The ALPD4.0 light source has a wide and continuous yellow phosphor spectrum plus three discrete (red, green and blue) laser spectra. The luminance of the yellow phosphor light can be adjusted by changing the driving current of the excitation blue lasers. Therefore, the source spectrum and color gamut can be adjusted by modulating the four independent groups of diode lasers (red, green, display blue and phosphor-excitation blue)._


----------



## humax

tnaik4 said:


> Just watched yesterday Ambulance , what a reference quality image and even better audio, if u want a movie to showcase what the T1 can do, definitely get it, its a fun movie too.



Glossy films, tv programs or sport events will look good on any decent projector of any technology. Ambulance looked good on my lamp-based ust too, which is nothing to write home about in terms of picture quality. Next performance standard newer DLPs should be striving for is getting older poorly mastered films or newer films with inherently elevated black floor/low contrast/blurry image look at least halfway decent/watchable, the same way JVC models do due to their high native contrast. Being a DLP guy all my life, I thought not having good contrast was OK. Well, it is not. You cannot have a really high quality image without it. The more, the better I say. Everything else follows. When I first bought my current DLP, I thought it was great and used it every day for many hours, now I think twice before switching it on, especially if the content I am about to watch has many night and low light scenes for fear of being underwhelmed by its performance. Seeing that grey haze/mist is frustrating now to me.


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> So to sum it all up to this point, you think all the peak brightness measurements and their differences in each mode that I showed above is totally only related to the modulation of the DLP mirrors giving such different peak white numbers while the black level is maintaining the same?
> 
> Hopefully we will find out soon enough because my interest level is very piqued at this point.


Wouldn't this theory be easy to test?
Use the custom picture mode, adjust RGB gains as low as possible to achieve 100% balance at a specific input. 

Next, using the same picture mode, adjust all of the RGB gains as high as possible while maintaining 100% RGB balance at the same input. 

The sequential contrast readings for each will give you the answer....right?
(this is a very interesting thread btw)


----------



## tnaik4

humax said:


> Glossy films, tv programs or sport events will look good on any decent projector of any technology. Ambulance looked good on my lamp-based ust too, which is nothing to write home about in terms of picture quality. Next performance standard newer DLPs should be striving for is getting older poorly mastered films or newer films with inherently elevated black floor/low contrast/blurry image look at least halfway decent/watchable, the same way JVC models do due to their high native contrast. Being a DLP guy all my life, I thought not having good contrast was OK. Well, it is not. You cannot have a really high quality image without it. The more, the better I say. Everything else follows. When I first bought my current DLP, I thought it was great and used it every day for many hours, now I think twice before switching it on, especially if the content I am about to watch has many night and low light scenes for fear of being underwhelmed by its performance. Seeing that grey haze/mist is frustrating now to me.


Well definitely, not even a 150k christie gryffin dlp projector can compete with JVC black level, and the christie has 10k:1 native, i have a JVC rs440 and i definitely prefer that for the darker movies.
But honestly what the T1 can do for around $2000 is an achievement by itself honeslty.


----------



## humax

tnaik4 said:


> Well definitely, not even a 150k christie gryffin dlp projector can compete with JVC black level, and the christie has 10k:1 native, i have a JVC rs440 and i definitely prefer that for the darker movies.
> But honestly what the T1 can do for around $2000 is an achievement by itself honestly.




The biggest problem with DLP owners and the 4K HDR trend is there is more and more content shot in such a dark manner that it is very difficult to actually see what it is going on. I am just watching the new Abel Ferrara film with Ethan Hawke right now on my Philips projector. This is a film shot entirely at night and the DOP thought it was a good idea he only used natural light aka no external lights. Well, my 0.65" DMD projector simply cannot cope with such a film. It is literally a DLP slaughterhouse. This is a Batman type of film in the sense it needs at least 20000-25000:1 native contrast to display properly. This is a pipe dream for DLP right now and unless they find a way to improve native contrast the technology will be left way behind in the 4K era. I used to be able to decently watch 80% of films with my DLP in the 1080 SDR era. The percentage is now getting smaller and smaller. This is yet another film where I will be switching off my projector and continue watching it on my 4K LCD tv, since the former cannot once again meet the minimum contrast standards for a proper image display and the funny part is I am talking about a boring and pretentious film. Double bummer!


----------



## Dave Harper

JereyWolf said:


> Wouldn't this theory be easy to test?
> Use the custom picture mode, adjust RGB gains as low as possible to achieve 100% balance at a specific input.
> 
> Next, using the same picture mode, adjust all of the RGB gains as high as possible while maintaining 100% RGB balance at the same input.
> 
> The sequential contrast readings for each will give you the answer....right?
> (this is a very interesting thread btw)


I’m not sure follow? Can you explain further?



humax said:


> The biggest problem with DLP owners and the 4K HDR trend is there is more and more content shot in such a dark manner that it is very difficult to actually see what it is going on. I am just watching the new Abel Ferrara film with Ethan Hawke right now on my Philips projector. This is a film shot entirely at night and the DOP thought it was a good idea he only used natural light aka no external lights. Well, my 0.65" DMD projector simply cannot cope with such a film. It is literally a DLP slaughterhouse. This is a Batman type of film in the sense it needs at least 20000-25000:1 native contrast to display properly. This is a pipe dream for DLP right now and unless they find a way to improve native contrast the technology will be left way behind in the 4K era. I used to be able to decently watch 80% of films with my DLP in the 1080 SDR era. The percentage is now getting smaller and smaller. This is yet another film where I will be switching off my projector and continue watching it on my 4K LCD tv, since the former cannot once again meet the minimum contrast standards for a proper image display and the funny part is I am talking about a boring and pretentious film. Double bummer!


The Batman looks pretty good in all scenes on the DLPs I’ve calibrated lately. So does Dune, etc.


----------



## tnaik4

humax said:


> The biggest problem with DLP owners and the 4K HDR trend is there is more and more content shot in such a dark manner that it is very difficult to actually see what it is going on. I am just watching the new Abel Ferrara film with Ethan Hawke right now on my Philips projector. This is a film shot entirely at night and the DOP thought it was a good idea he only used natural light aka no external lights. Well, my 0.65" DMD projector simply cannot cope with such a film. It is literally a DLP slaughterhouse. This is a Batman type of film in the sense it needs at least 20000-25000:1 native contrast to display properly. This is a pipe dream for DLP right now and unless they find a way to improve native contrast the technology will be left way behind in the 4K era. I used to be able to decently watch 80% of films with my DLP in the 1080 SDR era. The percentage is now getting smaller and smaller. This is yet another film where I will be switching off my projector and continue watching it on my 4K LCD tv, since the former cannot once again meet the minimum contrast standards for a proper image display and the funny part is I am talking about a boring and pretentious film. Double bummer!


What is the contrast of ur philips DLP ?Maybe its really low.
I feel DLPs and specially UST DLPs are making alot of improvements lately and becoming mainstream, we might see even more improvements soon, i use MadVR exclusively and honestly the T1 is doing amazing job in more than 90% of the content.
If they can do a good dynamic iris or laser dimming to improve on native contrast it ll be a home run.


----------



## humax

tnaik4 said:


> What is the contrast of ur philips DLP ?Maybe its really low.


It is a typical around 1100:1 native DLP contrast. It can go a bit higher in dynamic mode. I was using a white 1.0 gain screen before and dark scenes were unwatchable. Now that I am using a 0.6 CLR most dark scenes are passable, but content like Chapelwaite, Batman, the Northman, the Terminal List is beyond saving. Truly disappointing for a DLP fan like me and given all content is now graded with HDR in mind is not going to get any better from now on.




tnaik4 said:


> I feel DLPs and specially UST DLPs are making a lot of improvements lately



Yes, they have, but 3500:1 native contrast is still not enough for demanding dark content. The fact that now OLED tvs exist only leads to projectors' shortcomings becoming more apparent.


----------



## humax

"Dave Harper, post: 61802029, member: 594"]
The Batman looks pretty good in all scenes on the DLPs I’ve calibrated lately. So does Dune, etc.


By DLPs' standards, sure. I am only saying the enemy of good is better. Put the same units next to a JVC in the same scenes. Now, put the JVC next to an OLED. Obviously, I am not expecting DLP to reach either's contrast performance, but I would like to see a DLP displaying dark demanding scenes without a whiff of grey mist/haze and being able to completely make out, what is going on in a dark scene as well as the scene's grayscale gradations just like with a JVC, hence the hypothetical minimum native contrast standard of 20000-25000:1 for a projection medium. OLED of course being beyond competition.

Going back to the Ethan Hawke film, I literally could not make out what was going on most of the time in the dark scenes or who was doing what. It was that bad and the image was screaming lack of contrast. What is the point of a projector, if the picture is so unsatisfactory? I am sure a T1 or an AWOL would fare much better, but still such films are really contrast-hungry, if you want them properly displayed and any DLP will currently fall short.


----------



## Movie_geek

humax said:


> I am sure a T1 or an AWOL would fare much better, but still such films are really contrast-hungry, if you want them properly displayed and any DLP will currently fall short.


 I'm just trying to understand options before buying. To confirm.. have you *actually* watched any of those movies you mentioned on THIS UST? Or are you mostly talking about the technology in general based on experience with older projectors?


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> I’m not sure follow? Can you explain further?


I thought this method would be a straightforward way to test whether modulating peak white via RGB gain controls has a direct effect of the black floor and native contrast. That method reduces the color temperature shift that is caused by changing the brightness mode. I ran this test for myself earlier today...but my gear isn't accurate enough. 
This was in response the to earlier pages of the thread discussing whether reducing peak white had any effect on black floor.


----------



## tnaik4

Movie_geek said:


> I'm just trying to understand options before buying. To confirm.. have you *actually* watched any of those movies you mentioned on THIS UST? Or are you mostly talking about the technology in general based on experience with older projectors?


He is talking about DLP technology in general.


----------



## Movie_geek

tnaik4 said:


> He is talking about DLP technology in general.


Thank you! That is what I thought but wanted to double check.


----------



## Dave Harper

humax said:


> "Dave Harper, post: 61802029, member: 594"]
> The Batman looks pretty good in all scenes on the DLPs I’ve calibrated lately. So does Dune, etc.
> 
> 
> By DLPs' standards, sure. I am only saying the enemy of good is better. Put the same units next to a JVC in the same scenes. Now, put the JVC next to an OLED. Obviously, I am not expecting DLP to reach either's contrast performance, but I would like to see a DLP displaying dark demanding scenes without a whiff of grey mist/haze and being able to completely make out, what is going on in a dark scene as well as the scene's grayscale gradations just like with a JVC, hence the hypothetical minimum native contrast standard of 20000-25000:1 for a projection medium. OLED of course being beyond competition.
> 
> Going back to the Ethan Hawke film, I literally could not make out what was going on most of the time in the dark scenes or who was doing what. It was that bad and the image was screaming lack of contrast. What is the point of a projector, if the picture is so unsatisfactory? I am sure a T1 or an AWOL would fare much better, but still such films are really contrast-hungry, if you want them properly displayed and any DLP will currently fall short.


Can you share time stamps or images of those scenes so I can replicate?



JereyWolf said:


> I thought this method would be a straightforward way to test whether modulating peak white via RGB gain controls has a direct effect of the black floor and native contrast. That method reduces the color temperature shift that is caused by changing the brightness mode. I ran this test for myself earlier today...but my gear isn't accurate enough.
> This was in response the to earlier pages of the thread discussing whether reducing peak white had any effect on black floor.


I already posted charts that show the peak white lowering while the black floor remained the same. 

I guess I’m confused as to what else is needed?


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> I already posted charts that show the peak white lowering while the black floor remained the same.
> 
> I guess I’m confused as to what else is needed?





Dave Harper said:


> Yes but what people fail to realize is that with RGB laser projectors, the color source and the light source are ONE IN THE SAME, so any time you lower one, say green or blue, then the light output MUST also lower as well


Is the difference that you saw in peak white an effect of a difference in RGB balance of the different presets?
And the difference in peak white by changing to the different brightness modes would be a result of direct luminance control happening behind the scenes?


----------



## Dave Harper

JereyWolf said:


> Is the difference that you saw in peak white an effect of a difference in RGB balance of the different presets?
> And the difference in peak white by changing to the different brightness modes would be a result of direct luminance control happening behind the scenes?


I’d have to do further testing I guess to get a good handle on exactly what’s going on. I don’t have the unit any longer and I’d have to do it on my own time now after having already completed my review for ProjectorScreen.com.


----------



## humax

Movie_geek said:


> I'm just trying to understand options before buying. To confirm.. have you *actually* watched any of those movies you mentioned on THIS UST? Or are you mostly talking about the technology in general based on experience with older projectors?



I am just talking about DLP technology and its inherently low contrast in general and keep whining about the now lackluster performance of my own unit, until I manage to replace it with the T1 global version. Apologies for the confusion.

However, if you want to make an educated decision by blocking out the noise before buying, you may look at the following pics from the T1's sister machine, the Xiaomi C2. Since it is set against the ultimate contrast champion, this is the real difference between 3000-3500:1 and infinite contrast. It is pretty good for a projector and the best DLP can do right now, but you cannot help envying OLED's pitch black and true HDR image.

(7) Xiaomi Laser Cinema 2 | Page 28 | AVS Forum


----------



## humax

Dave Harper said:


> Can you share time stamps or images of those scenes so I can replicate?



Almost the entire Batman film is a time stamp in my book. Generally, too dark/ underlit/ elevated black level scenes, which look like a grey/hazy/misty/flat mess, if the native contrast is inadequate. My personal torture test is the candle-lit scenes in Chapelwaite. IMHO, you need JVC/OLED contrast in order to display such material properly or rather close to the way they were originally mastered.


----------



## Dave Harper

humax said:


> Almost the entire Batman film is a time stamp in my book. Generally, too dark/ underlit/ elevated black level scenes, which look like a grey/hazy/misty/flat mess, if the native contrast is inadequate. My personal torture test is the candle-lit scenes in Chapelwaite. IMHO, you need JVC/OLED contrast in order to display such material properly or rather close to the way they were originally mastered.


Using my setup with an HDFury using 10,000 nits, these sources look pretty good and not like you're describing. Sure, would those exact very dark scenes look better on a JVC or at their best on an OLED? Of course! But it would have to be at the expense of all the benefits you can get with DLP using this scenario. It is a personal choice of what one likes most.


----------



## aerodynamics

Looks like Wemax is gearing up for the release of their T1 variant. This is an excerpt from a Wemax-sponsored UST buying guide on Projector Central:


> ALPD stands for advanced laser phosphor display. The best laser TV UST projectors such as the WEMAX Nova feature an ALPD 3.0 light engine - delivering all of the benefits of laser projection from a combination of red and blue light. There are also an increasing number of new machines which include ALPD 4.0 - indicating use of an RGB triple laser array for even greater color depth and accuracy. WEMAX will shortly be launching its own triple laser UST projector, you can join our community HERE for updates, information and competitions.


In addition, the link to their community page has a poll in which they ask members to vote on the name for this upcoming triple laser UST:








Which product name do you like better for our new 4K triple laser projector?


Answer the Poll in Wemax Official Community




members.wemax.com


----------



## Aztar35

humax said:


> Almost the entire Batman film is a time stamp in my book. Generally, too dark/ underlit/ elevated black level scenes, which look like a grey/hazy/misty/flat mess, if the native contrast is inadequate. My personal torture test is the candle-lit scenes in Chapelwaite. IMHO, you need JVC/OLED contrast in order to display such material properly or rather close to the way they were originally mastered.


Okay, thanks. But let's try not to use JVC Lcos and OLED in the same sentence as if comparable. I've had a few JVCs and their black levels are definitely not like OLED. In fact, once my eyes adjusted to a longer dark scene, the JVC blacks began to lean more to a shade of gray. You have to move up into c. $300,000 before you can find a consumer projector that has black comparable to OLED.

The JVCs do have better sequential contrast and black levels when compared with most other projectors. Still, when I watched Batman streamed on my JVC NX5, I noticed a milky cast or some of the haze you mention. This left me to wonder whether the source content itself had elevated black levels.


----------



## ProFragger

aerodynamics said:


> Looks like Wemax is gearing up for the release of their T1 variant. This is an excerpt from a Wemax-sponsored UST buying guide on Projector Central:
> 
> In addition, the link to their community page has a poll in which they ask members to vote on the name for this upcoming triple laser UST:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which product name do you like better for our new 4K triple laser projector?
> 
> 
> Answer the Poll in Wemax Official Community
> 
> 
> 
> 
> members.wemax.com


Thanks for sharing this! @ProjectionHead (Brian)... Any info on these? Will you carry them? How will they be different from the Global Version you're selling?

Thanks.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ProFragger said:


> Thanks for sharing this! @ProjectionHead (Brian)... Any info on these? Will you carry them? How will they be different from the Global Version you're selling?
> 
> Thanks.


I was told, the Wemax unit will not be same as theater (despite being advertised as such) but may be a T1.
Regardless if it’s the same or not, I don’t expect to be carrying anything Wemax after evaluating their existing units and speaking with owners about their opinions.


----------



## Brajesh

Back to Formovie Theater... assume units are still on target to ship out end of this week? 🤞

A question: Assuming Theater supports HDR10+ (as it appears T1 does), what happens when you play a movie that has both DV & HDR10+? Which is being used/displayed by T1/Theater? Or, more generally, what happens on a TV that supports both?

Last year's 'The Suicide Squad' is an example:


----------



## Aztar35

Brajesh said:


> Back to Formovie Theater... assume units are still on target to ship out end of this week? 🤞
> 
> A question: Assuming Theater supports HDR10+ (as it appears T1 does), what happens when you play a movie that has both DV & HDR10+? Which is being used/displayed by T1/Theater? Or, more generally, what happens on a TV that supports both?
> 
> Last year's 'The Suicide Squad' is an example:
> View attachment 3305293


I think the projector would default to Dolby Vision before it reaches HDR10*+* metadata. My expectation is just based on what happens with the similar plain HDR10. When you have both DV and HDR10 coded titles, if your display is not DV compatible, then the format simply defaults to HDR10.


----------



## ProFragger

ProjectionHead said:


> I was told, the Wemax unit will not be same as theater (despite being advertised as such) but may be a T1.
> Regardless if it’s the same or not, I don’t expect to be carrying anything Wemax after evaluating their existing units and speaking with owners about their opinions.


Thanks Brian! Do you know what this line of thinking/strategy is for... Is it ultimately Xiaomi (Fengmi) to have Fengmi, Global versions and then the Wemax presence as well? I wonder why you are not a fan of their Wemax line?

Thanks again.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ProFragger said:


> Thanks Brian! Do you know what this line of thinking/strategy is for... Is it ultimately Xiaomi (Fengmi) to have Fengmi, Global versions and then the Wemax presence as well? I wonder why you are not a fan of their Wemax line?
> 
> Thanks again.


I was told by Fengmi/Formovie/Appotronics that Wemax will NOT have a clone of the theater. If you are wondering why I'm not a fan of the Wemax line; just try out some of their products for yourself 

Wemax was intended to be the USA brand for Appotronics, but they did a poor job of execution. Retailers such as myself won't carry their products and they are constantly running crazy sales to move inventory since they have no resale channel other than direct/amazon.

Fengmi on the other hand did a great job with the T1 and that is why the Formovie brand is now moving into the USA.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Back to Formovie Theater... assume units are still on target to ship out end of this week? 🤞


30 units arrived by air yesterday! We will be doing a spot check as requested by several people prior to shipping, so it is likely that all open orders will be going out this week.


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> 30 units arrived by air yesterday! We will be doing a spot check as requested by several people prior to shipping, so it is *likely that all open orders will be going out this week.*


Are all 30 units sold already?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> Are all 30 units sold already?


Nope, we still have some available from this batch.


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> If you are wondering why I'm not a fan of the Wemax line; just try out some of their products for yourself .


A300 is an exception then, but of course it wasn't marketed for outside China.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> A300 is an exception then, but of course it wasn't marketed for outside China.


yeah, I have no experience with that model or anything else that wasn't intended for USA other than the T1, which is what led me to bring in the Theater.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> Nope, we still have some available from this batch.
> View attachment 3305741


Woot!!! Can't wait!


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> 30 units arrived by air yesterday! We will be doing a spot check as requested by several people prior to shipping, so it is likely that all open orders will be going out this week.


I checked the first unit going out to a customer and it was bang on focus wise and looked the best I have ever seen a ForMovie look! No need for @tnaik4 's focus tweak on this sucka!


----------



## Brajesh

Sounds great... hope most, if not all, are like it .


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> I checked the first unit going out to a customer and it was bang on focus wise and looked the best I have ever seen a ForMovie look! No need for @tnaik4 's focus tweak on this sucka!


I call dibs on that one!


----------



## Odysea

Is there a thread/guide out there to self testing focus? Ie.). A good image set to hone in on and verify things look sharp?

I’ve always operated under “eh, I can see my windows icons sharp enough so it must be okay” 😂


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> I call dibs on that one!


Sorry, it's already spoken for and the customer asked for it to be checked, so that's why I opened it and checked it.



Odysea said:


> Is there a thread/guide out there to self testing focus? Ie.). A good image set to hone in on and verify things look sharp?
> 
> I’ve always operated under “eh, I can see my windows icons sharp enough so it must be okay” 😂


I just used the projector's Focus Screen and I could tell right away it was much better than the others we had.


----------



## mirzank

What about the sharpness issues that had previously been discussed ? It seems the xiaomi c2 is sharper. For the QA approved unit do you see any sharpness issues ?


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Sorry, it's already spoken for and the customer asked for it to be checked, so that's why I opened it and checked it.
> 
> I just used the projector's Focus Screen and I could tell right away it was much better than the others we had.


I was joking around with that. Have you spot checked any others to see if was an outlier or not? 

I just fixed my order with Norah, the CC pre-auth had expired. It should be shipping either today or tomorrow now. I can't wait for it to get in.


----------



## Dave Harper

mirzank said:


> What about the sharpness issues that had previously been discussed ? It seems the xiaomi c2 is sharper. For the QA approved unit do you see any sharpness issues ?


It looked very sharp as well. I commented to Brian that I would buy this one myself!



DesertDog said:


> I was joking around with that. Have you spot checked any others to see if was an outlier or not?
> 
> I just fixed my order with Norah, the CC pre-auth had expired. It should be shipping either today or tomorrow now. I can't wait for it to get in.


I know. I haven't checked any others yet from this batch. Do you want me to check yours too? If so, PM me here with your name or let Norah know. I am in the office today but won't be back until next week after today.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> It looked very sharp as well. I commented to Brian that I would buy this one myself!
> 
> I know. I haven't checked any others yet from this batch. Do you want me to check yours too? If so, PM me here with your name or let Norah know. I am in the office today but won't be back until next week after today.


What - first Brian takes a vacation day and now you? Who runs that joint, anyway? LOL - enjoy (hopefully it's a vacation.)


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> What - first Brian takes a vacation day and now you? Who runs that joint, anyway? LOL - enjoy (hopefully it's a vacation.)


I don't live in the area. I am 3 hours away and only come in a couple days/week and work from home the other days. If you would like to pay my ridiculous expenses for gas, hotel and travel time (thanks JB!) I would gladly be here more often!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> I don't live in the area. I am 3 hours away and only come in a couple days/week and work from home the other days. If you would like to pay my ridiculous expenses for gas, hotel and travel time (thanks JB!) I would gladly be here more often!


Get an electric car and tow one of those little houses. Brian will cover the electrical and water hookup in the parking lot.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ummmmm, no thanks!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Ummmmm, no thanks!
> 
> View attachment 3306280
> View attachment 3306281
> View attachment 3306289
> View attachment 3306290


Obviously, "HarperVision" is NOT green.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Does the International T1 have the ability to connect to and use Bluetooth headphones?

Whoops - found the short manual online. Can connect to Bluetooth headphones.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Get an electric car and tow one of those little houses. Brian will cover the electrical and water hookup in the parking lot.


He gets a generic brand 9volt battery and a half empty bottle of water that I found in my trunk….


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Obviously, "HarperVision" is NOT green.


Do those images look “green” to you?



ProjectionHead said:


> He gets a generic brand 9volt battery and a half empty bottle of water that I found in my trunk….


And I’ll be thankful for it!


----------



## m0j0

New review of the Formovie Theater on Youtube:


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> New review of the Formovie Theater on Youtube:


Oh good show, old chap. Thanks for the link. It reaffirms my decision to buy the International model. I purchased through Brian at projectorscreen.com, of course. Great service and the PJ is on it's way to me now! Looking forward to having that big screen experience again after moving and giving up my man cave. To be continued....


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> Oh good show, old chap. Thanks for the link. It reaffirms my decision to buy the International model. I purchased through Brian at projectorscreen.com, of course. Great service and the PJ is on it's way to me now! Looking forward to having that big screen experience again after moving and giving up my man cave. To be continued....


Excited for you. I know it's been a long time.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Obviously, "HarperVision" is NOT green.


@Dave Harper has found a way to turn compost into styrofoam and spray paints over every solar panel he sees...


----------



## Odysea

I heard Dave makes plants take in oxygen and emit c02…

On that note how much energy does the T1 use compared to other USTs 🤔


----------



## m0j0

Odysea said:


> I heard Dave makes plants take in oxygen and emit c02…
> 
> On that note how much energy does the T1 use compared to other USTs 🤔


Depends on which brightness setting you use, but it can use quite a bit of energy from what I recall.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Odysea said:


> I heard Dave makes plants take in oxygen and emit c02…
> 
> On that note how much energy does the T1 use compared to other USTs 🤔


350 Watts from this reference - 








Formovie Fengmi T1 4K Triple Laser 2800 ANSI Lumens Ultra Short Throw Home Theater Projector (FengOS), Home Cinema, Home Entertainment


Buy Formovie Fengmi T1 4K Triple Laser 2800 ANSI Lumens Ultra Short Throw Home Theater Projector (FengOS), Home Cinema, Home Entertainment from The Largest Protector Seller in Malaysia




usaprojector.com


----------



## kraine

Ricoflashback said:


> 350 Watts from this reference -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1 4K Triple Laser 2800 ANSI Lumens Ultra Short Throw Home Theater Projector (FengOS), Home Cinema, Home Entertainment
> 
> 
> Buy Formovie Fengmi T1 4K Triple Laser 2800 ANSI Lumens Ultra Short Throw Home Theater Projector (FengOS), Home Cinema, Home Entertainment from The Largest Protector Seller in Malaysia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> usaprojector.com




















Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Ricoflashback

kraine said:


> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


2nd link won’t load URL.


----------



## vee22

Newbie Post: 

LG HU85LA vs Fengmi T1 formovie Theater (global version)? Now that the LG price range is closer to formovie. I've been watching this on Projectorscreen.com, considering either of these along with an ALR screen (Vivid storm floor rising) for a living room with decent amount of lights.

Also, I am considering adding projectorscreen.com warranty upon purchase, is warranty necessary?

Any guidance/input will be greatly appreciated!


----------



## ProjectionHead

vee22 said:


> Newbie Post:
> 
> LG HU85LA vs Fengmi T1 formovie Theater (global version)? Now that the LG price range is closer to formovie. I've been watching this on Projectorscreen.com, considering either of these along with an ALR screen (Vivid storm floor rising) for a living room with decent amount of lights.
> 
> Also, I am considering adding projectorscreen.com warranty upon purchase, is warranty necessary?
> 
> Any guidance/input will be greatly appreciated!


The warranty extends the manufacturer warranty but also adds accidental damage, which IMHO is the bigger value. Not necessary, but if you have kids/pets you may want to consider it.

At this point, I'd be picking the Theater over the HU85La as the Theater (Global T1) has better contrast, audio and is true RGB. The newer HU915QB on the other hand (over 2x the cost of the Theater) is a big improvement over the HU85LA and should be for the price tag of $6,500 MSRP.


----------



## ProjectionHead

kraine said:


> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


I'll take Mondoprojos measurements over whatever is listed at USAProjector


----------



## vee22

ProjectionHead said:


> The warranty extends the manufacturer warranty but also adds accidental damage, which IMHO is the bigger value. Not necessary, but if you have kids/pets you may want to consider it.
> 
> At this point, I'd be picking the Theater over the HU85La as the Theater (Global T1) has better contrast, audio and is true RGB. The newer HU915QB on the other hand (over 2x the cost of the Theater) is a big improvement over the HU85LA and should be for the price tag of $6,500 MSRP.


Thank you kindly! 🙏


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> I'll take Mondoprojos measurements over whatever is listed at USAProjector


If it's lower (5.


ProjectionHead said:


> I'll take Mondoprojos measurements over whatever is listed at USAProjector


Yes - that 5.31429% variance will make the difference between having to get a whole new change of service or going with what you have in your house. Just kidding - - lesser is better but was this a consistent reading? How about the "HDR" draw with the speakers at "Rolling Stones" levels?


----------



## MarcusD777

ProjectionHead said:


> The warranty extends the manufacturer warranty but also adds accidental damage, which IMHO is the bigger value. Not necessary, but if you have kids/pets you may want to consider it.
> 
> At this point, I'd be picking the Theater over the HU85La as the Theater (Global T1) has better contrast, audio and is true RGB. The newer HU915QB on the other hand (over 2x the cost of the Theater) is a big improvement over the HU85LA and should be for the price tag of $6,500 MSRP.


I have the LG HU85LA and it has been really solid for me. I have been thinking about checking out the Global T1 or jumping up to the newer LG915QB. I project onto a 135” white 1.0 gain screen in dedicated light controlled room so corner to corner sharpness at that size is important as well as added contrast and color volume. My HU85LA can’t get fully sharp in one corner at 135” but not noticeable when viewing content. Any benefits in going with the newer LG over the T1? What’s the return policy on the T1 if it did not meet my expectations with Projectorscreen.com?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> If it's lower (5.
> 
> Yes - that 5.31429% variance will make the difference between having to get a whole new change of service or going with what you have in your house. Just kidding - - lesser is better but was this a consistent reading? How about the "HDR" draw with the speakers at "Rolling Stones" levels?


I was really referring to how MondoProjos does their own measurements and that other site seems to just publish data from other sources…
But yes either way; definitely better upgrade your electrical panels and get some 240 service


----------



## Odysea

MarcusD777 said:


> I have the LG HU85LA and it has been really solid for me. I have been thinking about checking out the Global T1 or jumping up to the newer LG915QB. I project onto a 135” white 1.0 gain screen in dedicated light controlled room so corner to corner sharpness at that size is important as well as added contrast and color volume. My HU85LA can’t get fully sharp in one corner at 135” but not noticeable when viewing content. Any benefits in going with the newer LG over the T1? What’s the return policy on the T1 if it did not meet my expectations with Projectorscreen.com?











Return and Pricing Policies - ProjectorScreen.com - Projector Screen | Projection Screen







www.projectorscreen.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

MarcusD777 said:


> I have the LG HU85LA and it has been really solid for me. I have been thinking about checking out the Global T1 or jumping up to the newer LG915QB. I project onto a 135” white 1.0 gain screen in dedicated light controlled room so corner to corner sharpness at that size is important as well as added contrast and color volume. My HU85LA can’t get fully sharp in one corner at 135” but not noticeable when viewing content. Any benefits in going with the newer LG over the T1? What’s the return policy on the T1 if it did not meet my expectations with Projectorscreen.com?


The Theater supports a larger image size than the LG and is half the price.

@Dave Harper did the measurements on both of these and we will be publishing the review on the B unit next week as well as comparing it to the E unit. He’s a great resource to ask about these two as he has spent more time with both than I who hasn’t even seen the B unit in person yet.

As far as anything “business” related; email me to stay compliant with forum rules.


----------



## ACE844

@ProjectionHead What happened to the review and Yt vid you posted yesterday?


----------



## ProjectionHead

ACE844 said:


> @ProjectionHead What happened to the review and Yt vid you posted yesterday?


What do you mean? Which ones?


----------



## ACE844

ProjectionHead said:


> What do you mean? Which ones?


IIRC, you posted a link to your Youtube review of the Theater and photos of the unit yesterday afternoon shortly after @m0j0  posted the all about tech YT review? I'm no longer able to find it as I was going to watch yours as well....


----------



## Brajesh

Received my Theater. Look forward to setting up & testing it this weekend. Will try w/o HDFury VROOM in the chain (maybe no longer needed). Thanks @ProjectionHead for checking it for focus & geometry, and quick shipping.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ACE844 said:


> IIRC, you posted a link to your Youtube review of the Theater and photos of the unit yesterday afternoon shortly after @m0j0  posted the all about tech YT review? I'm no longer able to find it as I was going to watch yours as well....


Wasn’t me. I posted the review a while ago and haven’t finished making the video yet. There was a video posted by someone else made by AllThingsT3ch which was a good one


----------



## Joered101

Hi all, when I receive my global theatre I was hoping to calibrate myself like I did with my other projectors. However not had an rgb before. Will I be able to calibrate it with my i1 Profiler? On HCFR?
Thanks for the input!


----------



## zoomx2

Brajesh said:


> Received my Theater. Look forward to setting up & testing it this weekend. Will try w/o HDFury VROOM in the chain (maybe no longer needed). Thanks @ProjectionHead for checking it for focus & geometry, and quick shipping.
> 
> View attachment 3307197
> View attachment 3307198
> View attachment 3307199


Tell us what's your experience since you had T1 before.


----------



## Ricoflashback

It’s here! It’s here! Much thanks to Brian for his speedy turnaround.

So - screen installation next week and right now, it’s shining on an uneven, beige wall with lots of light coming in. I’d like to do some keystone adjustment, temporarily, but either I’m not doing it right or the movements are so small that I don‘t see them. I go into 4 point keystone adjustments, move the cursor to the right lower side and press the right arrow but nothing. Press the middle? Hold? Not very intuitive.

P.S. - the walls and floors in this apartment aren‘t exactly level. Nice wave on the left side of my top left picture. Unless you really prepare a wall correctly, lots of imperfections. And count me all in on an ALR UST screen. A must have for daytime viewing. Bluetooth headphones work great! Must have as we‘re way too confined for the B&W fine speakers unless we’re watching a movie together. I’m surprised at how good the speakers are!


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> It’s here! It’s here! Much thanks to Brian for his speedy turnaround.
> 
> So - screen installation next week and right now, it’s shining on an uneven, beige wall with lots of light coming in. I’d like to do some keystone adjustment, temporarily, but either I’m not doing it right or the movements are so small that I don‘t see them. I go into 4 point keystone adjustments, move the cursor to the right lower side and press the right arrow but nothing. Press the middle? Hold? Not very intuitive.
> 
> P.S. - the walls and floors in this apartment aren‘t exactly level. Nice wave on the left side of my top left picture. Unless you really prepare a wall correctly, lots of imperfections. And count me all in on an ALR UST screen. A must have for daytime viewing. Bluetooth headphones work great! Must have as we‘re way too confined for the B&W fine speakers unless we’re watching a movie together. I’m surprised at how good the speakers are!


I think on the keystone adjustments, you have to move the cursor around to the section you want to adjust, then select it, then you can adjust it left or right, etc. Also, there is the option of fine or course adjustments.


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> I think on the keystone adjustments, you have to move the cursor around to the section you want to adjust, then select it, then you can adjust it left or right, etc. Also, there is the option of fine or course adjustments.


Right arrow or press the middle? Should move noticeably, correct?


----------



## Ricoflashback

FYI - my T1 remote also controls various functions on my NVidia Shield Pro! Very cool.


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> Right arrow or press the middle? Should move noticeably, correct?


The Right Arrow / Left Arrow stuff is for Focus. If you're in Keystone, you would press left/right/up/down to move the cursor to the point where you want to adjust keystone, then the center button to select it, then you can move keystone in the desired direction. Just play around with it, you'll get the hang of it real quick.


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> The Right Arrow / Left Arrow stuff is for Focus. If you're in Keystone, you would press left/right/up/down to move the cursor to the point where you want to adjust keystone, then the center button to select it, then you can move keystone in the desired direction. Just play around with it, you'll get the hang of it real quick.


Thanks. Much appreciated. On a wall, it’s harder to see the keystone adjustments. Still a great picture. I’m sure it will look even better with an ALR UST screen.


----------



## spocky12

Any chance a (future) owner of this device can make a system dump ? That would be really interesting.

The (riskless) steps would be :
* On the device

enable developer mode
enable adb debugging
* On the computer

install Android studio
connect to the device wirelessly (adb connect [device_ip])
open "device explorer" panel, right click on the root folder and select "save on this computer"
Not everything will be saved (many folders require root access), but that should be enough to learn more about this device (configuration, hidden apps...) and might help improve the T1/C2 experience as well.


----------



## Ricoflashback

I’ve gotta say that the menus and everything about the International T1 is well laid out. Worth the extra $500? I think so. And buying through a U.S. Authorized Distributor is a lot more “peace of mind.” A little judder that I noticed with MEMC on medium. I was was spoiled by the motion handling on the single chip, bulb based BenQ. Flawless. But a mounted PJ wasn’t in the cards so this is the next best thing. 

As I said - the picture is on the wall until my screen can be assembled the following week. I hired an A/V company to do it. A man has to know his limitations. We’ve put together so many things in this new apartment that I’m getting burned out. The best move I made was to pay a guy from TaskRabbit $150 to put together a large gazebo for our patio. A gazillion pieces that he patiently constructed.

Hoping to see more comments as the International T1’s make their way out of Brian’s warehouse as well as from across the pond.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> I’ve gotta say that the menus and everything about the International T1 is well laid out. Worth the extra $500? I think so. And buying through a U.S. Authorized Distributor is a lot more “peace of mind.” A little judder that I noticed with MEMC on medium. I was was spoiled by the motion handling on the single chip, bulb based BenQ. Flawless. But a mounted PJ wasn’t in the cards so this is the next best thing.
> 
> As I said - the picture is on the wall until my screen can be assembled the following week. I hired an A/V company to do it. A man has to know his limitations. We’ve put together so many things in this new apartment that I’m getting burned out. The best move I made was to pay a guy from TaskRabbit $150 to put together a large gazebo for our patio. A gazillion pieces that he patiently constructed.
> 
> Hoping to see more comments as the International T1’s make their way out of Brian’s warehouse as well as from across the pond.


Mine is due for delivery on Tuesday so I'll have some feedback once it's in. I'll probably only have a rough setup in my great room though until next weekend unless I can get someone to swing by during the week to help move the old TV and stand out. I'm also trying to rebuild my center speaker right now so that it'll fit behind the screen and fire at my chest instead of firing at my knees. Thanks to a bone headed move today I have to recut the new faceplate tomorrow and that's going to put me back a day on my schedule. I really need someplace where I can run a router and saws at night. Stupid neighbors don't like noise.


----------



## PatrickvH

spocky12 said:


> Any chance a (future) owner of this device can make a system dump ? That would be really interesting.
> 
> The (riskless) steps would be :
> * On the device
> 
> enable developer mode
> enable adb debugging
> * On the computer
> 
> install Android studio
> connect to the device wirelessly (adb connect [device_ip])
> open "device explorer" panel, right click on the root folder and select "save on this computer"
> Not everything will be saved (many folders require root access), but that should be enough to learn more about this device (configuration, hidden apps...) and might help improve the T1/C2 experience as well.


If not done yet, you could also ask here: AVS Forum - Formovie Fengmi T1
I am currently at page 49 of 315 so big chance you already did.


----------



## antjes

PatrickvH said:


> If not done yet, you could also ask here: AVS Forum - Formovie Fengmi T1
> I am currently at page 49 of 315 so big chance you already did.


In my understanding he is trying kind of "reverse engineery", and benefit T1 chinese version with some improvements.

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> Hi all, when I receive my global theatre I was hoping to calibrate myself like I did with my other projectors. However not had an rgb before. Will I be able to calibrate it with my i1 Profiler? On HCFR?
> Thanks for the input!


You can calibrate with your i1 and get decent results. It should be better than not calibrating, but calibrating with a low bandwidth less than 5nm spectroradiometer is best for true RGB laser projectors. 

Also, in HCFR there’s a High Resolution setting you can activate for some meters that supposedly can simulate a 5nm meter using an actual 10nm meter. I don’t recall where and how since it’s been quite awhile since I’ve used HCFR, so I’d Google it or go to the dedicated thread for HCFR.


----------



## Brajesh

@Ricoflashback, agree about the menus being well laid out as I had the T1 prior. However, just started setting up & can't find how to toggle the projector to HDMI 2.0. My Shield TV Pro shows max resolution of 4K30 likely because of this. Sorry if I missed if this was covered earlier in this thread.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> @Ricoflashback, agree about the menus being well laid out as I had the T1 prior. However, just started setting up & can't find how to toggle the projector to HDMI 2.0. My Shield TV Pro shows max resolution of 4K30 likely because of this. Sorry if I missed if this was covered earlier in this thread.


Yes, I noticed that too. I’m not sure what’s going on with that. But I believe I get Dolby Vision at 60hz as an option. But on my Shield Pro, I default to 4K30 because the picture is brighter (Ultra 4K) with Dolby Audio. I’ll check the setting again.

On a positive note, even with a crappy, uneven beige wall with imperfections galore, the Standard colors out of the box are incredible. And I can see that the black floor will be much better than my previous BenQ TK700STi. I watched a little bit last night in a darkened room after sunset. I’m sure I’m not getting the brightest picture and contrast that I’ll have with my .6 UST ALR screen when installed. Let me know what you find out about HDMI 2.0.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> @Ricoflashback, agree about the menus being well laid out as I had the T1 prior. However, just started setting up & can't find how to toggle the projector to HDMI 2.0. My Shield TV Pro shows max resolution of 4K30 likely because of this. Sorry if I missed if this was covered earlier in this thread.


Found it. EDID settings.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Another observation on the International T1 - the sound and dialog is exceptional. The dialog is crystal clear. Which has me rethinking my previous Dolby Atmos setup. Not that it wasn’t great - but as my ears have gotten older, I have a harder time hearing audio. Maybe it‘s the sound mixing. Add a sub and some rear speakers and this would be an awesome audio experience.

No need for a soundbar with this PJ. I’d probably buy a higher stand to get the audio closer to sitting ear level. Enjoying my new toy immensely.


----------



## tnaik4

Ricoflashback said:


> Another observation on the International T1 - the sound and dialog is exceptional. The dialog is crystal clear. Which has me rethinking my previous Dolby Atmos setup. Not that it wasn’t great - but as my ears have gotten older, I have a harder time hearing audio. Maybe it‘s the sound mixing. Add a sub and some rear speakers and this would be an awesome audio experience.
> 
> No need for a soundbar with this PJ. I’d probably buy a higher stand to get the audio closer to sitting ear level. Enjoying my new toy immensely.


I have to admit, the sound on these T1s is pretty impressive for a build in speaker, i couldnt believe the clarity.


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> You can calibrate with your i1 and get decent results. It should be better than not calibrating, but calibrating with a low bandwidth less than 5nm spectroradiometer is best for true RGB laser projectors.
> 
> Also, in HCFR there’s a High Resolution setting you can activate for some meters that supposedly can simulate a 5nm meter using an actual 10nm meter. I don’t recall where and how since it’s been quite awhile since I’ve used HCFR, so I’d Google it or go to the dedicated thread for HCFR.


What meter do u use to calibrate ur tri laser USTs ?
Also do u angle down the meter to get the highest reading ?
Thanks dave.


----------



## Brajesh

Spent about 2 hours setting up, really liking it... but, my unit has a problem, which appears to be inside the lens assembly. Tried cleaning w/a soft lens cleaning cloth, but didn't help. Neither did leaving the projector on past 30 minutes to warm up. It's noticeable, can see it while watching content, not just in the settings screenshots below. @ProjectionHead, what do you advise?




















A bummer as this Formovie Theater would've been a keeper. In short tests I did, PQ is excellent. HDMI connectivity seems a little less flaky than T1. More picture controls as we know.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Spent about 2 hours setting up, really liking it... but, my unit has a problem, which appears to be inside the lens assembly. Tried cleaning w/a soft lens cleaning cloth, but didn't help. Neither did leaving the projector on past 30 minutes to warm up. It's noticeable, can see it while watching content, not just in the settings screenshots below. @ProjectionHead, what do you advise?
> View attachment 3307997
> View attachment 3307998
> View attachment 3307999
> 
> 
> A bummer as this Formovie Theater would've been a keeper. In short tests I did, PQ is excellent. HDMI connectivity seems a little less flaky than T1. More picture controls as we know.


Shoot me an email with your order number and these pics (and avsf username) and we’ll share with Formovie and get it swapped if unable to resolve.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> Spent about 2 hours setting up, really liking it... but, my unit has a problem, which appears to be inside the lens assembly. Tried cleaning w/a soft lens cleaning cloth, but didn't help. Neither did leaving the projector on past 30 minutes to warm up. It's noticeable, can see it while watching content, not just in the settings screenshots below. @ProjectionHead, what do you advise?
> View attachment 3307997
> View attachment 3307998
> View attachment 3307999
> 
> 
> A bummer as this Formovie Theater would've been a keeper. In short tests I did, PQ is excellent. HDMI connectivity seems a little less flaky than T1. More picture controls as we know.


You sure it isn’t your screen? Otherwise, that’s a blob that I’d have a hard time explaining. Not a chromatic aberration as there is nothing associated with or around it. Something baked into the lens?


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> What meter do u use to calibrate ur tri laser USTs ?
> Also do u angle down the meter to get the highest reading ?
> Thanks dave.


We now have a JETI 1511 Hi-Res with a 2nm bandwidth.  Previously we used an i1Pro2. Both were profiled to a SpectraCal C6 colorimeter. 

I angle it up with the tripod and meter just in front of the projector. I put on constant read and then adjust for maximum white reading. 

In my case the screen is pretty low to the ground so if it were at standard height the reflection would be pretty much right back at my eyes based on the angle I usually end up at.


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> I was profiling to my i1Pro2 spectro with decent results I am told are within 3% tolerance. I spoke with a few other pros like Jason Dustal and we all agreed that the RAW setting came very close with a small error margin so I’ve been using that until we get our Jeti 1511 Hi-Res.
> 
> 
> 
> Use the RAW profile.


Dave did u mean here the RAW profile of the i1d3 came close to the profiled one for triple laser ?


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> Dave did u mean here the RAW profile of the i1d3 came close to the profiled one for triple laser ?


Yes it was close when I did the comparison between my C6 profiled to my i1Pro2 and RAW. I haven’t checked the differences between RAW and the C6 profiled to the JETI yet. Been way too busy calibrating all the USTs for our upcoming UST Showdown with Projector Central.


----------



## tnaik4

Dave Harper said:


> Yes it was close when I did the comparison between my C6 profiled to my i1Pro2 and RAW. I haven’t checked the differences between RAW and the C6 profiled to the JETI yet. Been way too busy calibrating all the USTs for our upcoming UST Showdown with Projector Central.


I have the C6 HDR 2000 so i might as well just uts RAW profile if its close.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Yes it was close when I did the comparison between my C6 profiled to my i1Pro2 and RAW. I haven’t checked the differences between RAW and the C6 profiled to the JETI yet. Been way too busy calibrating all the USTs for our upcoming UST Showdown with Projector Central.


Hey Dave - - do you have the list of the UST Projectors in the Showdown?


----------



## Brajesh

Ricoflashback said:


> You sure it isn’t your screen? Otherwise, that’s a blob that I’d have a hard time explaining. Not a chromatic aberration as there is nothing associated with or around it. Something baked into the lens?


Yep, sure... because when I physically move the projector around, the blob/smear/blemish moves with it. Brian is arranging a swap-out... being able to interact with a solid (and customer plugged-in) U.S.-based vendor like Projector Screen alone makes the price difference vs. T1 more than worth it.

PQ on Theater is phenomenal. Had the T1 before, with & w/o HDFury in the chain, but the PQ on Theater just seems better. Maybe I'm misremembering, but Theater's colors already look quite natural, accurate to me with the available preset modes. And, w/o HDFury, which I agree with @kraine isn't really needed. Definitely more plug-(position)-and-play than T1, and more general user-friendly.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> Yep, sure... because when I physically move the projector around, the blob/smear/blemish moves with it. Brian is arranging a swap-out... being able to interact with a solid (and customer plugged-in) U.S.-based vendor like Projector Screen alone makes the price difference vs. T1 more than worth it.
> 
> PQ on Theater is phenomenal. Had the T1 before, with & w/o HDFury in the chain, but the PQ on Theater just seems better. Maybe I'm misremembering, but Theater's colors already look quite natural, accurate to me with the available preset modes. And, w/o HDFury, which I agree with @kraine isn't really needed. Definitely more plug-(position)-and-play than T1, and more general user-friendly.


So sorry you've got that blob with the new PJ. But here is where buying from an authorized U.S.A. dealer really comes in handy. I'm quite confident that Brian will make it right. And I agree with you on the colors. Absolutely fantastic on my crappy wall. I can't wait until my screen is installed. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> I have the C6 HDR 2000 so i might as well just uts RAW profile if its close.


Probably a good plan, but I’ll try to come back here with any differences I see with it profiled to the JETI. The most recent UST I did was the new LG 915QB using RAW and I did it again using the JETI profile so that should show any differences. 



Ricoflashback said:


> Hey Dave - - do you have the list of the UST Projectors in the Showdown?


I’m not sure I’m at liberty to say so I would defer that question to @ProjectionHead.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Hey Dave - - do you have the list of the UST Projectors in the Showdown?


Here ya go:








ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Quick question, what is the status of your Houston "Summer" shootout mentioned in the last shootout thread? Can you send a link to where I said that? I’ve never even been to Houston




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Mojo.Risin

Hello
is it possible to install the android of the theater on t1?


----------



## g3m

I have an Optoma Cinemax P1 (using LLDV with an HDFury device) and I was wondering if an upgrade to the Formovie Theater would be a major improvement. On one side, the increase in native contrast (Formovie's 3000:1 vs Optoma's 1500:1) and color gamut seems interesting but I would maybe loose in sharpness. The projector is used in the basement only, it's not fully light controlled but it's dark enough most of the time. I use a Vividstorm ALR screen for UST. Anyone with an experience in upgrading from a similar model? Maybe I should wait a generation or two if the improvement is not major.


----------



## mickey_888

From Cinema in Your Home and Office
The global version seems a downgrade from china T1 in terms of CPU, Memory and storage. MT9629 2G Ram 32G Rom vs, MT9669 3G 64G


----------



## Casey_Bryson

mickey_888 said:


> From Cinema in Your Home and Office
> The global version seems a downgrade from china T1 in terms of CPU, Memory and storage. MT9629 2G Ram 32G Rom vs, MT9669 3G 64G


Only a downgrade if you're using it as a Smart TV and very slight at that. Who spends thousands on a projector and then doesn't have $50 left over for a proper streamer/media device? No one.


----------



## tnaik4

Casey_Bryson said:


> Only a downgrade if you're using it as a Smart TV and very slight at that. Who spends thousands on a projector and then doesn't have $50 left over for a proper streamer/media device? No one.


Wouldnt specs affect their hdr tone mapping also ?


----------



## Odysea

Casey_Bryson said:


> Only a downgrade if you're using it as a Smart TV and very slight at that. Who spends thousands on a projector and then doesn't have $50 left over for a proper streamer/media device? No one.


I can attest to “slight at that”. I’ve been using it alone in a spare room until I get everything set up in our living room. 

I’ve had no issues with the stock OS and capabilities.


----------



## Sonny Red

mickey_888 said:


> From Cinema in Your Home and Office
> The global version seems a downgrade from china T1 in terms of CPU, Memory and storage. MT9629 2G Ram 32G Rom vs, MT9669 3G 64G


The main difference between the 2 SoCs s that the 9669 can handle 4K 120Hz where as the 9629 can only handle 60 Hzbut what’s the point since every UST with DLP chip can’t handle more than 60 Hz


----------



## Grazed

g3m said:


> I have an Optoma Cinemax P1 (using LLDV with an HDFury device) and I was wondering if an upgrade to the Formovie Theater would be a major improvement. On one side, the increase in native contrast (Formovie's 3000:1 vs Optoma's 1500:1) and color gamut seems interesting but I would maybe loose in sharpness. The projector is used in the basement only, it's not fully light controlled but it's dark enough most of the time. I use a Vividstorm ALR screen for UST. Anyone with an experience in upgrading from a similar model? Maybe I should wait a generation or two if the improvement is not major.


I don't have any experience with the Optoma P1 but I came from a Optoma P2 and upgraded to the Formovie T1 (chinese version) and it was a big upgrade in black levels, contrast, and input lag while gaming. The sharpness was pretty much exactly the same between the two at least on my units.

I don't see the point in waiting unless you are specifically looking for more features like a higher refresh rate, 3D, lens shift, etc. since I doubt the black levels or contrast will change drastically compared to now anytime soon but I will hopefully be proven wrong.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

tnaik4 said:


> Wouldnt specs affect their hdr tone mapping also ?


If it was doing any dynamic tone mapping sure, but I think Dave Harper clarified that the Formovie Theater isn't doing any tone mapping, just the usual EOTF curve IIRC which doesn't require much.


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> You can calibrate with your i1 and get decent results. It should be better than not calibrating, but calibrating with a low bandwidth less than 5nm spectroradiometer is best for true RGB laser projectors.
> 
> Also, in HCFR there’s a High Resolution setting you can activate for some meters that supposedly can simulate a 5nm meter using an actual 10nm meter. I don’t recall where and how since it’s been quite awhile since I’ve used HCFR, so I’d Google it or go to the dedicated thread for HCFR.


Thanks for the feedback, so I’ll definitely still give it a go then.
And you suggest I have to turn color space “on” to achieve something closer to Rec 709? Using with a computer to play a lot of content so won’t be much in 2020 gamut space, however the colours do look really dull in that mode with the colour space on.
Thanks Dave!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Yep, sure... because when I physically move the projector around, the blob/smear/blemish moves with it. Brian is arranging a swap-out... being able to interact with a solid (and customer plugged-in) U.S.-based vendor like Projector Screen alone makes the price difference vs. T1 more than worth it.
> 
> PQ on Theater is phenomenal. Had the T1 before, with & w/o HDFury in the chain, but the PQ on Theater just seems better. Maybe I'm misremembering, but Theater's colors already look quite natural, accurate to me with the available preset modes. And, w/o HDFury, which I agree with @kraine isn't really needed. Definitely more plug-(position)-and-play than T1, and more general user-friendly.


@Brajesh is having a new unit sent out; we just checked 5 more units yesterday for customers and reviewers and all had no issues with focus or the “Brajesh Blob”.


----------



## ProjectionHead

g3m said:


> I have an Optoma Cinemax P1 (using LLDV with an HDFury device) and I was wondering if an upgrade to the Formovie Theater would be a major improvement. On one side, the increase in native contrast (Formovie's 3000:1 vs Optoma's 1500:1) and color gamut seems interesting but I would maybe loose in sharpness. The projector is used in the basement only, it's not fully light controlled but it's dark enough most of the time. I use a Vividstorm ALR screen for UST. Anyone with an experience in upgrading from a similar model? Maybe I should wait a generation or two if the improvement is not major.


We measured under 1,100:1 on the P2 and over 3,300:1 on the Theater.
While there will always be something better/more advanced coming out in the future; the upgrade is huge (beyond just contrast) between these two units.


----------



## ACE844

Mojo.Risin said:


> Hello
> is it possible to install the android of the theater on t1?


I asked Formovie this and they said no


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> @Brajesh is having a new unit sent out; we just checked 5 more units yesterday for customers and reviewers and all had no issues with focus or the “Brajesh Blob”.


Love it. The "Brajesh Blob." Now a technical term in Formovie T1 language. Not quite the same as having a constellation or star named after you but hey, take what you can get.


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> ...the “Brajesh Blob”.


Hey that's not fair 🤨🤣


----------



## Dave Harper

I wonder if I can _"HarperVision"_ that darned Brajesh Blob out?


----------



## Brajesh

That would be a neat trick. Curious to learn what it turns out to be after Brian has the unit back. Have had many DLP's in the past and never experienced any dust blob issues (LCD yes, but not DLP). Guessing it's some imperfection in the lens itself or something that can be cleaned off. Had I risked importing directly from China, would've opened the unit to try.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> I wonder if I can _"HarperVision"_ that darned Brajesh Blob out?


Nope, it’s way too Glucked Up


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> That would be a neat trick. Curious to learn what it turns out to be after Brian has the unit back. Have had many DLP's in the past and never experienced any dust blob issues (LCD yes, but not DLP). Guessing it's some imperfection in the lens itself or something that can be cleaned off. Had I risked importing directly from China, would've opening the unit to try.


It’s going to end up with the USA service center; I’ll share what they find and how they fixed


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> Nope, it’s way too Glucked Up


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> @Brajesh is having a new unit sent out; we just checked 5 more units yesterday for customers and reviewers and all had no issues with focus or the “Brajesh Blob”.


Mine came in yesterday too and I don't have the Brajesh Blob either. I can't comment on focus or anything yet since I haven't properly set it up yet. Last night was just a quick smoke test.


----------



## m0j0

ProjectionHead said:


> It’s going to end up with the USA service center; I’ll share what they find and how they fixed


I have a small blob myself, but not really noticeable unless there is really bright, uniform scene (like a bright white scene). I suspect it's some glue or residue from where the glass cover is mounted. Not brave enough to pull mine apart to see if I could clean it or not, so just living with it. Ironically, I bought this T1 from Brajesh...


----------



## Ricoflashback

Initial iPad camera shot of my International T1 with light pouring in at 11:30 am in sunny Arizona and with no screen. Much better at night, obviously. Screen to be installed next Monday. Finally figured out the keystone adjustments and how to level the projector to your wall using the dial in feet. From what I’ve read, keystone adjustments are to be avoided, if you can, with a regular throw projector. I suspect that with a UST PJ and it’s closeness to the screen/wall - that that doesn’t make as much difference, PQ wise. Nice bow on the upper left of the wall!


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> Mine came in yesterday too and I don't have the Brajesh Blob either. I can't comment on focus or anything yet since I haven't properly set it up yet. Last night was just a quick smoke test.


Don’t let the smoke outta that thing cuz then it won’t work anymore! 

Electronics run on smoke. When you see the smoke come out of them, have you noticed they don’t work after that?


----------



## m0j0

Dave Harper said:


> Don’t let the smoke outta that thing cuz then it won’t work anymore!
> 
> Electronics run on smoke. When you see the smoke come out of them, have you noticed they don’t work after that?


I subscribe to this theory...


----------



## rooterha

Got the itch and just placed an order from Brian. Will be nice to have a T1 without all the quirks of the Chinese version.


----------



## Grazed

Just got home to a nice surprise. Looks like I have some testing to do for the next couple hours between the Global and Chinese T1


----------



## ba_crane

Anyone running this UST on a screen that’s not a lot of money? I have a 120” silver ticket white 1.1 gain in a blacked out dedicated room. If I have to spend $1,000 or more on a screen to get a good image then I’ll have to sit out on the UST option.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Don’t let the smoke outta that thing cuz then it won’t work anymore!
> 
> Electronics run on smoke. When you see the smoke come out of them, have you noticed they don’t work after that?


That's why we smoke test, to make sure it all stays in.  

Have you posted the setting you've been using in your tests? I'd be interested in seeing them. A lot of times they're a good starting point. 

For anyone receiving theirs a small heads up. Pairing my remote was a pain with the vague on screen direction. I had to be right next to the right side to get it to connect. Being back even a foot resulted in nothing happening. I thought I had a bad remote at first.


----------



## m0j0

ba_crane said:


> Anyone running this UST on a screen that’s not a lot of money? I have a 120” silver ticket white 1.1 gain in a blacked out dedicated room. If I have to spend $1,000 or more on a screen to get a good image then I’ll have to sit out on the UST option.


Prior to this projector, I had a HiSense 100L5F and one of the other members on the forum had one in a basement with a cheap 200 dollar vinyl screen and he posted a video of his image, and it looked amazing. I think it was a 1.0 gain screen, probably not much different than a Silver Ticket. As long as you have full light control, and don't plan to turn on lights when watching on it, a Silver Ticket should look pretty good with a UST.


----------



## ba_crane

m0j0 said:


> Prior to this projector, I had a HiSense 100L5F and one of the other members on the forum had one in a basement with a cheap 200 dollar vinyl screen and he posted a video of his image, and it looked amazing. I think it was a 1.0 gain screen, probably not much different than a Silver Ticket. As long as you have full light control, and don't plan to turn on lights when watching on it, a Silver Ticket should look pretty good with a UST.


Very good, thank you. 

Room is total darkness in middle of day. Ceiling covered in black velvet wrapped panels, blackout curtains over windows, floor to ceiling black velvet drapes, black shag rug over carpet. No lights will be on while viewing. 

Should I consider buying a 1.0 gain grey screen through silver ticket?


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> That's why we smoke test, to make sure it all stays in.
> 
> Have you posted the setting you've been using in your tests? I'd be interested in seeing them. A lot of times they're a good starting point.
> 
> For anyone receiving theirs a small heads up. Pairing my remote was a pain with the vague on screen direction. I had to be right next to the right side to get it to connect. Being back even a foot resulted in nothing happening. I thought I had a bad remote at first.


No I haven't, but I am about to calibrate another one between now and Monday for our upcoming UST Showdown. The great thing this time is that I am now using the great Klein K-10A Colorimeter and it is being profiled to an amazing Jeti Spectraval 1511 Hi-Res spectrometer with incredible 2nm bandwidth for reading RGB laser projectors! So the results _should be_ more accurate.


----------



## Aztar35

ba_crane said:


> Very good, thank you.
> 
> Room is total darkness in middle of day. Ceiling covered in black velvet wrapped panels, blackout curtains over windows, floor to ceiling black velvet drapes, black shag rug over carpet. No lights will be on while viewing.
> 
> Should I consider buying a 1.0 gain grey screen through silver ticket?


I think your screen will be fine. Try it out first. I think Silver Ticket also makes a gray screen. As long as the surface is very smooth or has little texture, you should get pretty sharp images. The T1 will have the wide color too, so a color neutral material will be great. Now, I have some doubt the T1 is as sharp as my Laser C2 but I might be very wrong about that, especially since I have not seen a T1 in person. I'm waiting for Brian to invite me over to see the T1 Global, at least before the time he decides to expand to out West. 

The other option would be go a little smaller on the screen for your throw and get a JVC Lcos. It will have better black levels and sequential contrast, especially good in your dark space.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> No I haven't, but I am about to calibrate another one between now and Monday for our upcoming UST Showdown. The great thing this time is that I am now using the great Klein K-10A Colorimeter and it is being profiled to an amazing Jeti Spectraval 1511 Hi-Res spectrometer with incredible 2nm bandwidth for reading RGB laser projectors! So the results _should be_ more accurate.


You had me at hello. 🤤🤤🤤


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> I subscribe to this theory...


Let me take a few puffs and then I’ll get back to you…


----------



## m0j0

DesertDog said:


> You had me at hello. 🤤🤤🤤


I know, right!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> No I haven't, but I am about to calibrate another one between now and Monday for our upcoming UST Showdown. The great thing this time is that I am now using the great Klein K-10A Colorimeter and it is being profiled to an amazing Jeti Spectraval 1511 Hi-Res spectrometer with incredible 2nm bandwidth for reading RGB laser projectors! So the results _should be_ more accurate.


I love it when you talk dirty.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Aztar35 said:


> Now, I have some doubt the T1 is as sharp as my Laser C2 but I might be very wrong about that, especially since I have not seen a T1 in person. I'm waiting for Brian to invite me over to see the T1 Global, at least before the time he decides to expand to out West.


Waiting for an invite?!? Lol you’ve got a VIP season pass.
Whatcha doing next week? @Dave Harper will be plugging away on all the Showdown units and I’ll def have a Theater (as well the new LG units and many, many others) you are welcome to check out


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> Waiting for an invite?!? Lol you’ve got a VIP season pass.
> Whatcha doing next week? @Dave Harper will be plugging away on all the Showdown units and I’ll def have a Theater (as well the new LG units and many, many others) you are welcome to check out


That sound like a plan.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Night shot on crappy wall. Still - great colors and black floor.


----------



## ba_crane

Why does the top of the image look bent


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> Why does the top of the image look bent


The wall. Nothing in this apartment is level. I suspect the wall isn’t plumb either. I put my level on it and it rocks back and forth. Kinda like a dent in that area of drywall. The screen should fix that.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> The wall. Nothing in this apartment is level. I suspect the wall isn’t plum either. The screen should fix that.


Looking forward to your take once you get the screen


----------



## IBTRLN

Is there much lazer sparkle/shimmer in the image? I'm considering this UST but my wife is sensitive to the sparkle she saw in the likes of the Samsung Premiere.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> The wall. Nothing in this apartment is level. I suspect the wall isn’t plumb either. I put my level on it and it rocks back and forth. Kinda like a dent in that area of drywall. The screen should fix that.


Which screen are you going to pair it with?


----------



## tnaik4

m0j0 said:


> I have a small blob myself, but not really noticeable unless there is really bright, uniform scene (like a bright white scene). I suspect it's some glue or residue from where the glass cover is mounted. Not brave enough to pull mine apart to see if I could clean it or not, so just living with it. Ironically, I bought this T1 from Brajesh...


When i disassembled mine and put it back together there was a small blob like that, i just removed the cover again and cleaned the inside of the glass, and it went away, it was small dust particles but at a certain angle with the light source it can create that.


----------



## tnaik4

ba_crane said:


> Anyone running this UST on a screen that’s not a lot of money? I have a 120” silver ticket white 1.1 gain in a blacked out dedicated room. If I have to spend $1,000 or more on a screen to get a good image then I’ll have to sit out on the UST option.


I have the answer for u since i use a very similar screen with my T1, Carl's flexiwhite 1.1 white screen in a dedicated home theatre, and result is spectacular, u dont need any ust screen in fully black out room, and i m using it on 135inch size.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Which screen are you going to pair it with?


Well, not the best since we are renting. And - when we buy a house, I’ll have a room to accommodate a 120” screen. I went with the Wemax 100” special on Amazon Prime days for $399. A UST ALR screen that’s really needed in this apartment as there is a lot of light that I cannot control during the daytime. I‘ll buy a better screen once we’re in a new place but for now, this should do. Even on the wall, the picture is fantastic, IMHO.


----------



## Diego Arno

Ricoflashback said:


> Initial iPad camera shot of my International T1 with light pouring in at 11:30 am in sunny Arizona and with no screen. Much better at night, obviously. Screen to be installed next Monday. Finally figured out the keystone adjustments and how to level the projector to your wall using the dial in feet. From what I’ve read, keystone adjustments are to be avoided, if you can, with a regular throw projector. I suspect that with a UST PJ and it’s closeness to the screen/wall - that that doesn’t make as much difference, PQ wise. Nice bow on the upper left of the wall!
> 
> View attachment 3309337


Ricoflashback, would you say it's acceptable on a raw wall like so ?


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> You had me at hello.





m0j0 said:


> I know, right!





Ricoflashback said:


> I love it when you talk dirty.

















ProjectionHead said:


> Waiting for an invite?!? Lol you’ve got a VIP season pass.
> Whatcha doing next week? @Dave Harper will be plugging away on all the Showdown units and I’ll def have a Theater (as well the new LG units and many, many others) you are welcome to check out


Bring it on, Aziz!!!



IBTRLN said:


> Is there much lazer sparkle/shimmer in the image? I'm considering this UST but my wife is sensitive to the sparkle she saw in the likes of the Samsung Premiere.


I don’t notice laser speckle at all in these units. They have special speckle reducing tech built in. If I recall it’s a second blue laser with phosphor designed for this very purpose.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Diego Arno said:


> Ricoflashback, would you say it's acceptable on a raw wall like so ?


If you can smooth the wall and remove the imperfections AND control the light - yes. Acceptable. Even better on a treated wall with "projector paint." But not optimal. Especially if there is any daylight coming in that you can't control. That's where a UST ALR screen will work its magic. There will be much better pixel resolution, black floor and clarity with a screen in addition to more vibrant colors and shadow detail. But as I said earlier - - the colors are fantastic. I've turned off Dolby Vision via my Nvidia Shield Pro. Just too dark. SDR/HDR/Ultra 4K is a real treat with this projector. (Thanks to m0j0 for his tip on the ability of the Nvidia Shield Pro to set the resolution so Dolby Vision isn't engaged.)


----------



## rooterha

Ordered yesterday and shipped within a couple hours. Can't wait!


----------



## ba_crane

Anyone know how the sharpness of the T1 compares to JVC NX5?


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ba_crane said:


> Anyone know how the sharpness of the T1 compares to JVC NX5?


Generaly DLP>LCoS for sharpness (especially if lens is even close to the same quality). So T1 is sharper than JVC NX5, even though NX5 is native 4K.


----------



## ba_crane

Casey_Bryson said:


> Generaly DLP>LCS for sharpness (especially if lens is even close to the same quality). So T1 is sharper than JVC NX5, even though NX5 is native 4K.


So my best bet would be to wait for a UST to come out with native 4k and better native contrast. Sounds like they already have better sharpness and colors, just need one with better contrast.


----------



## ba_crane

Ive seen these photos posted and I’m incredibly impressed. But then I see other photos and they look quite poor. I’m trying to understand what my expectations should be. I’m in a fully blacked out room.


----------



## kaptaink45

Just got my projector today! I can definitely see it is a bit brighter than the Bomaker Polaris I was using before and the blacks and contrast are much better also. Has any one figured out some good starter calibration settings yet? I'm using the projector with my Vividstorm .6 gain CLR screen. Also is there a way to get the projector to go to certain input (i.e.HDMI 1) after turning it on instead of it going to the home screen?


----------



## tnaik4

ba_crane said:


> View attachment 3310020
> 
> View attachment 3310021
> 
> View attachment 3310022
> 
> View attachment 3310018
> 
> View attachment 3310019
> 
> Ive seen these photos posted and I’m incredibly impressed. But then I see other photos and they look quite poor. I’m trying to understand what my expectations should be. I’m in a fully blacked out room.


Keep in mind some use LLDV/Hdfury for tone mapping or madVR which are vastely superior to the stock ones, so when seeing pics make sure to check what is being used, also some might not be configured to its best performance.
But when the T1 is configured correctly with a good dtm it can produce stunning picture.


----------



## ProjectionHead

IBTRLN said:


> Is there much lazer sparkle/shimmer in the image? I'm considering this UST but my wife is sensitive to the sparkle she saw in the likes of the Samsung Premiere.


The Samsung LSP9t has the most speckle of any of the USTs, this is significantly less


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> So my best bet would be to wait for a UST to come out with native 4k and better native contrast. Sounds like they already have better sharpness and colors, just need one with better contrast.


The contrast on the International T1 is excellent. There is always something better around the corner but you sound like you're looking for a silver bullet or the perfect PJ. I don't believe UST Projectors will ever have JVC like contrast but then again, no non DLP PJ will have the razor sharpness that DLP provides. So - you can wait five or ten years, if you like, to see if that magic projector appears. For many, the current International T1 checks all the boxes - - especially at its price point.

P.S. - watching "The Old Man" on FX had some incredible colors with the Middle East clothing and scenes. Fine, fine series with Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> The contrast on the International T1 is excellent. There is always something better around the corner but you sound like you're looking for a silver bullet or the perfect PJ. I don't believe UST Projectors will ever have JVC like contrast but then again, no non DLP PJ will have the razor sharpness that DLP provides. So - you can wait five or ten years, if you like, to see if that magic projector appears. For many, the current International T1 checks all the boxes - - especially at its price point.
> 
> P.S. - watching "The Old Man" on FX had some incredible colors with the Middle East clothing and scenes. Fine, fine series with Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow.


As I said, I’m impressed with some of the screenshots I’ve seen, it’s others posted that concern me.


----------



## tnaik4

Ricoflashback said:


> The contrast on the International T1 is excellent. There is always something better around the corner but you sound like you're looking for a silver bullet or the perfect PJ. I don't believe UST Projectors will ever have JVC like contrast but then again, no non DLP PJ will have the razor sharpness that DLP provides. So - you can wait five or ten years, if you like, to see if that magic projector appears. For many, the current International T1 checks all the boxes - - especially at its price point.
> 
> P.S. - watching "The Old Man" on FX had some incredible colors with the Middle East clothing and scenes. Fine, fine series with Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow.


U know whats most impressive, it is the price, this level of performance at this price range is incredible, its my first UST and because the price was so good i got one knowing fully well that i might get another ust in a year or two if they made some nice improvement.


----------



## ACE844

Ricoflashback said:


> The contrast on the International T1 is excellent. There is always something better around the corner but you sound like you're looking for a silver bullet or the perfect PJ. I don't believe UST Projectors will ever have JVC like contrast but then again, no non DLP PJ will have the razor sharpness that DLP provides. So - you can wait five or ten years, if you like, to see if that magic projector appears. For many, the current International T1 checks all the boxes - - especially at its price point.
> 
> P.S. - watching "The Old Man" on FX had some incredible colors with the Middle East clothing and scenes. Fine, fine series with Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow.


Agreed there were many scenes I enjoyed in VII last night which really highlighted this PJ's dynamic performance and sharpness.


----------



## ba_crane

tnaik4 said:


> U know whats most impressive, it is the price, this level of performance at this price range is incredible, its my first UST and because the price was so good i got one knowing fully well that i might get another ust in a year or two if they made some nice improvement.


To what extent is Madvr improving your image over no Madvr? I’d love to have it but I understand it to be complicated and specific to what your viewing, as well as for local media instead of streaming. Would I be able to add an hdfury and get 90% of the DTM of Madvr or is that not really the case?


----------



## ba_crane

I currently own an Epson 5040, anyone have experience wity that? If the contrast is as good as the 5040 that’s sufficient for me if I’m adding a razor sharp 4k image with great colors. Also, how does the T1 handle HDR?


----------



## Ricoflashback

tnaik4 said:


> U know whats most impressive, it is the price, this level of performance at this price range is incredible, its my first UST and because the price was so good i got one knowing fully well that i might get another ust in a year or two if they made some nice improvement.


So, if I had my druthers, I'd have a fully dedicated theater room with a regular throw PJ and the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit in with masking OR the madVR Envy Pro for all processing. That would be my ideal setup. 

Fast forward to today and our downsizing (move to Arizona) and no dedicated theater room. I'm absolutely thrilled that I can still have that "big screen" experience in a multipurpose or living room with a UST Projector that has the black floor, colors and sharpness of the International T1. And being able to buy through a U.S.A. Distributor (Brian) is the icing on the cake for that "worry-free purchase."

Lastly - it seems to me like there are more advancements with UST Projectors compared to any other products out there today. Certainly more offerings with China pushing the envelope with ALPD technology. And yes - - I, too, am looking forward to continued improvements with UST PJ's. I believe this will be the fastest growth sector in the projector market.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> So, if I had my druthers, I'd have a fully dedicated theater room with a regular throw PJ and the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit in with masking OR the madVR Envy Pro for all processing. That would be my ideal setup.
> 
> Fast forward to today and our downsizing (move to Arizona) and no dedicated theater room. I'm absolutely thrilled that I can still have that "big screen" experience in a multipurpose or living room with a UST Projector that has the black floor, colors and sharpness of the International T1. And being able to buy through a U.S.A. Distributor (Brian) is the icing on the cake for that "worry-free purchase."
> 
> Lastly - it seems to me like there are more advancements with UST Projectors compared to any other products out there today. Certainly more offerings with China pushing the envelope with ALPD technology. And yes - - I, too, am looking forward to continued improvements with UST PJ's. I believe this will be the fastest growth sector in the projector market.


This is part of my dilemma. I have a dedicated blacked out room, issue is the size. The largest screen I can go is 110” due to throw distance constraints. To be fair seated distance is 8’, but I’m one of the guys that likes to have a big screen, so I’m trying to decide between JVC nx5 with 110” screen or T1 with 120-135” screen. Either way same blacked out room. I want a picture that’s essentially close to a qled tv, I like the bright, vivid, sharp picture. This leads me to go for the T1, but I’m concerned that the contrast will be at best a side step from my current Epson 5040. Are blacks more of a dark grey on T1? I keep hearing great intrascene contrast, so it looks good as long as it’s not a super dark scene like most of the new Batman?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> This is part of my dilemma. I have a dedicated blacked out room, issue is the size. The largest screen I can go is 110” due to throw distance constraints. To be fair seated distance is 8’, but I’m one of the guys that likes to have a big screen, so I’m trying to decide between JVC nx5 with 110” screen or T1 with 120-135” screen. Either way same blacked out room. I want a picture that’s essentially close to a qled tv, I like the bright, vivid, sharp picture. This leads me to go for the T1, but I’m concerned that the contrast will be at best a side step from my current Epson 5040. Are blacks more of a dark grey on T1? I keep hearing great intrascene contrast, so it looks good as long as it’s not a super dark scene like most of the new Batman?


I understand your dilemma. The Epson 5040 is a step down from the renown Epson 5050, the latter projector getting great reviews as thee "JVC" alternative for its price range. At 2800 lumens and much closer to the screen, you're not going to have any brightness issues compared to your current Epson 5040 at 2500 lumens. And I believe the picture will be much sharper compared to both the Epson 5040 and 5050. Black level? Here's the big question for you when looking at a larger screen for your blacked out room - namely, you won't need a UST ALR screen, I believe. Check with Aztar who does not have a UST ALR screen but does have a darkened theater like yours. And I assume you have a 16 x 9 screen.

On a side note, since there are no UST PJ's that have lens memory that I know of, a Cinemascope screen is not an option for a UST PJ. But with the madVR Envy Pro (and I've asked Brian to test this out with the International T1) you could actually go for a Cinemascope screen with the madVR Envy Pro that would do a much better job with HDR and Dolby Vision. They also have a "Linear Stretch" that can take 16 x 9 content and make it visually attractive for a scope screen. But you'd absolutely have to have a bat cave, darkened theater, IMHO, to really make this work. I don't think they even make a Cinemascope UST ALR screen.

Compared to your current Epson 5040 PJ - - I think the ALPD International T1 would provide a better picture with an excellent black floor and superior colors - - all in a larger screen size. The real question is what screen would be best to pair it with in a darkened environment like yours.


----------



## m0j0

ba_crane said:


> This is part of my dilemma. I have a dedicated blacked out room, issue is the size. The largest screen I can go is 110” due to throw distance constraints. To be fair seated distance is 8’, but I’m one of the guys that likes to have a big screen, so I’m trying to decide between JVC nx5 with 110” screen or T1 with 120-135” screen. Either way same blacked out room. I want a picture that’s essentially close to a qled tv, I like the bright, vivid, sharp picture. This leads me to go for the T1, but I’m concerned that the contrast will be at best a side step from my current Epson 5040. Are blacks more of a dark grey on T1? I keep hearing great intrascene contrast, so it looks good as long as it’s not a super dark scene like most of the new Batman?


I have a similar room with similar size constraints. I am currently using a Sony 695ES and I get 115" diagonal on a cinemascope screen. If I put the T1 in this theater, I could easily scale up to 130" size screen or more, since throw distance is no longer the limiting factor. In comparing the T1 to my Sony, they are very, very similar in picture. I give the slight advantage to the Sony currently due to better black levels/contrast, but it's not much better, just a bit, and the T1 has a sharper image overall, so really, I would be happy with either in the theater to be honest. It comes down to whether you want better black levels or a bigger screen.


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> I have a similar room with similar size constraints. I am currently using a Sony 695ES and I get 115" diagonal on a cinemascope screen. If I put the T1 in this theater, I could easily scale up to 130" size screen or more, since throw distance is no longer the limiting factor. In comparing the T1 to my Sony, they are very, very similar in picture. I give the slight advantage to the Sony currently due to better black levels/contrast, but it's not much better, just a bit, and the T1 has a sharper image overall, so really, I would be happy with either in the theater to be honest. It comes down to whether you want better black levels or a bigger screen.


Nice post, m0j0. To me, sharpness trumps all as long as there isn't a huge difference in the black floor. And I suspect the colors are on par or very close with the Sony 695ES. At 1800 lumens, though, I would think the Sony 695ES is no where near as bright and vivid as the International T1. I'm sure the Dynamic Iris has a lot to do with the deeper black level but mostly in a bat cave environment. But I love Sony processing as it's the only TV's that I've bought in the past six years (LCD then OLED.)


----------



## Odysea

ba_crane said:


> I currently own an Epson 5040, anyone have experience wity that? If the contrast is as good as the 5040 that’s sufficient for me if I’m adding a razor sharp 4k image with great colors. Also, how does the T1 handle HDR?


Honestly, I’m more impressed with the T1 than my Epson 5040ub FWIW. And I don’t even have a screen for it yet

My Epson was set up with a dalite high power screen


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> I understand your dilemma. The Epson 5040 is a step down from the renown Epson 5050, the latter projector getting great reviews as thee "JVC" alternative for its price range. At 2800 lumens and much closer to the screen, you're not going to have any brightness issues compared to your current Epson 5040 at 2500 lumens. And I believe the picture will be much sharper compared to both the Epson 5040 and 5050. Black level? Here's the big question for you when looking at a larger screen for your blacked out room - namely, you won't need a UST ALR screen, I believe. Check with Aztar who does not have a UST ALR screen but does have a darkened theater like yours. And I assume you have a 16 x 9 screen.
> 
> On a side note, since there are no UST PJ's that have lens memory that I know of, a Cinemascope screen is not an option for a UST PJ. But with the madVR Envy Pro (and I've asked Brian to test this out with the International T1) you could actually go for a Cinemascope screen with the madVR Envy Pro that would do a much better job with HDR and Dolby Vision. They also have a "Linear Stretch" that can take 16 x 9 content and make it visually attractive for a scope screen. But you'd absolutely have to have a bat cave, darkened theater, IMHO, to really make this work. I don't think they even make a Cinemascope UST ALR screen.
> 
> Compared to your current Epson 5040 PJ - - I think the ALPD International T1 would provide a better picture with an excellent black floor and superior colors - - all in a larger screen size. The real question is what screen would be best to pair it with in a darkened environment like yours.


Thank you for the response. I would love to use r Madvr envy but no way to afford. I was thinking of Madvr htpc or hoping a hdfury would suffice to help with some DTM. 

I was looking at the silver ticket white 1.1 gain or grey 1.0 gain 135” 16x9 screen. I currently have the 120” 1.1 gain white screen snd I’m happy with it. I would consider making some insulation board panels and wrapping in black velvet to create a scope screen for 2.39 content. 

I guess it comes down to whether T1 or nx5 has the sharpest, brightest, color rich image that would be closest to that of qled tv. I want the best contest like most but those 3 others are important. I can live with 110”, I can’t live with buying JVC just to have better contrast snd not having that razor sharp image with great colors. I understand brightness it important for HDR as well, so looking for a great HDR image as well.


----------



## ba_crane

m0j0 said:


> I have a similar room with similar size constraints. I am currently using a Sony 695ES and I get 115" diagonal on a cinemascope screen. If I put the T1 in this theater, I could easily scale up to 130" size screen or more, since throw distance is no longer the limiting factor. In comparing the T1 to my Sony, they are very, very similar in picture. I give the slight advantage to the Sony currently due to better black levels/contrast, but it's not much better, just a bit, and the T1 has a sharper image overall, so really, I would be happy with either in the theater to be honest. It comes down to whether you want better black levels or a bigger screen.


Thank you, that sounds enticing, 

When you say better blacks, how much better?

10%, 50%? 

If you had seen both run next to another and then came back a day later and watched them separately, could you say the Sony definitely has better blacks or is it more where your looking at both at same time?


----------



## ba_crane

Odysea said:


> Honestly, I’m more impressed with the T1 than my Epson 5040ub FWIW. And I don’t even have a screen for it yet
> 
> My Epson was set up with a dalite high power screen


That’s good to hear, but also more impressed as in it was definitely worth it and your glad you bought it or more of a sideways move?

I see you sold it, why did you end up selling if you liked if better than 5040?


----------



## Ricoflashback

I keep hoping that Brian at Projectorscreen.com will have a raffle for a madVR Envy Pro. You know - - a marketing campaign to entice more traffic and buyers to his website. Alas, I don't think this year as he's concentrating on his West Coast expansion. Just kidding, Brian....I think.


----------



## m0j0

ba_crane said:


> Thank you, that sounds enticing,
> 
> When you say better blacks, how much better?
> 
> 10%, 50%?
> 
> If you had seen both run next to another and then came back a day later and watched them separately, could you say the Sony definitely has better blacks or is it more where your looking at both at same time?


10-15% better overall on the black levels, but probably higher number for contrast. This is not side by side though. Just watching in dark/night time conditions. However, the Sony has the better room (blacked out with black velvet) so maybe some of that could be attributed to the room conditions.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> So, if I had my druthers, I'd have a fully dedicated theater room with a regular throw PJ and the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit in with masking OR the madVR Envy Pro for all processing. That would be my ideal setup.
> 
> Fast forward to today and our downsizing (move to Arizona) and no dedicated theater room. I'm absolutely thrilled that I can still have that "big screen" experience in a multipurpose or living room with a UST Projector that has the black floor, colors and sharpness of the International T1. And being able to buy through a U.S.A. Distributor (Brian) is the icing on the cake for that "worry-free purchase."
> 
> Lastly - it seems to me like there are more advancements with UST Projectors compared to any other products out there today. Certainly more offerings with China pushing the envelope with ALPD technology. And yes - - I, too, am looking forward to continued improvements with UST PJ's. I believe this will be the fastest growth sector in the projector market.


Welcome to AZ! There's a few of us bass head / home theater guys here in the valley that are on AVS. It's nice to have another.


----------



## tnaik4

ba_crane said:


> To what extent is Madvr improving your image over no Madvr? I’d love to have it but I understand it to be complicated and specific to what your viewing, as well as for local media instead of streaming. Would I be able to add an hdfury and get 90% of the DTM of Madvr or is that not really the case?


Its a big improvement over stock tone mapping, not even close, and extreemly tweakable to ur liking, not to mention all the other advantages like upscaling, black bar detection etc...
The LLDV solution is pretty good, never tried it and from what ive read it can get u around 80-90% there.


----------



## ba_crane

tnaik4 said:


> Its a big improvement over stock tone mapping, not even close, and extreemly tweakable to ur liking, not to mention all the other advantages like upscaling, black bar detection etc...
> The LLDV solution is pretty good, never tried it and from what ive read it can get u around 80-90% there.


80-90% will do for me, is LLDV accomplished with hd fury?

If I ran a hdfury vertex 2 on the international t1 in a blacked out room and made black velvet panels to create a scope screen would I be sitting good?


----------



## ACE844

ba_crane said:


> 80-90% will do for me, is LLDV accomplished with hd fury?


Yes


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> Welcome to AZ! There's a few of us bass head / home theater guys here in the valley that are on AVS. It's nice to have another.


Much thanks! I'm in Tucson and loving it. Sure, it's hot, but that's to be expected this time of year. And it's pretty hot everywhere in the country, as well. But for the first time - - I'll be looking forward to winter. Lots of golf courses here and places to eat. A foodie's delight. I don't know if any home theater groups meetup but maybe that's a possibility. You can't beat the AVS Forum for the best A/V info around.


----------



## MDesigns

tnaik4 said:


> Its a big improvement over stock tone mapping, not even close, and extreemly tweakable to ur liking, not to mention all the other advantages like upscaling, black bar detection etc...
> The LLDV solution is pretty good, never tried it and from what ive read it can get u around 80-90% there.


Doesn't this one have the full Dolby Vision built in? Why is the LLDV tweak needed anymore?


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Much thanks! I'm in Tucson and loving it. Sure, it's hot, but that's to be expected this time of year. And it's pretty hot everywhere in the country, as well. But for the first time - - I'll be looking forward to winter. Lots of golf courses here and places to eat. A foodie's delight. I don't know if any home theater groups meetup but maybe that's a possibility. You can't beat the AVS Forum for the best A/V info around.


Yeah, we have our own type of hot here. Tip, look into supercooling your house. I started doing it at the start of summer and it looks like I'm going to save around $100/month with it. That's getting way off topic though so DM me if you want. 

As for HT meetups, we haven't had any yet as far as I know. There's been a couple times that a few of us have been at one persons house helping set things up but that's about it. In fact one of the guys stopped by my place today to help me move my old TV and stand out so that I get my Formovie setup night and over the weekend.


----------



## Brajesh

Not sure HDFury is needed if you have a device that can force SDR, HDR & 10+ to LLDV... like Zidoo Z9X. Still have my HDFury VRROOM, but may get rid of it after fully evaluating Theater.


----------



## ba_crane

Brajesh said:


> Not sure HDFury is needed if you have a device that can force SDR, HDR & 10+ to LLDV... like Zidoo Z9X. Still have my HDFury VRROOM, but may get rid of it after fully evaluating Theater.


Does the ziddo cover streaming


----------



## m0j0

ba_crane said:


> Does the ziddo cover streaming


No, it’s for playing local content only. For streaming, you want an Nvidia Shield, Roku Ultra or Apple TV 4K.


----------



## m0j0

MDesigns said:


> Doesn't this one have the full Dolby Vision built in? Why is the LLDV tweak needed anymore?


Not sure about the global, but the original T1 locked down controls when tv led Dolby vision was engaged. With the Vertex2, it sends a custom hdr signal for LLDV, so you still get full controls for brightness, contrast, etc.


----------



## tnaik4

MDesigns said:


> Doesn't this one have the full Dolby Vision built in? Why is the LLDV tweak needed anymore?


Its to have more controls available.


----------



## Dave Harper

tnaik4 said:


> Its a big improvement over stock tone mapping, not even close, and extreemly tweakable to ur liking, not to mention all the other advantages like upscaling, black bar detection etc...
> The LLDV solution is pretty good, never tried it and from what ive read it can get u around 80-90% there.


More like 95-98% if settings are optimized based on the source and projector. 



MDesigns said:


> Doesn't this one have the full Dolby Vision built in? Why is the LLDV tweak needed anymore?


I’ve noticed RGB 8-Bit DV doesn’t have the same look and is dimmer than LLDV on this. Especially when mapping SDR and HDR to RGB DV. It looks much more washed out than doing it with LLDV. I don’t like what they did with native DV on this projector personally. I’ve gotten much better results using LLDV. 

And of course the many more plethora of settings and parameters that can be adjusted if you use LLDV.


----------



## rooterha

Dave Harper said:


> More like 95-98% if settings are optimized based on the source and projector.
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve noticed RGB 8-Bit DV doesn’t have the same look and is dimmer than LLDV on this. Especially when mapping SDR and HDR to RGB DV. It looks much more washed out than doing it with LLDV. I don’t like what they did with native DV on this projector personally. I’ve gotten much better results using LLDV.
> 
> And of course the many more plethora of settings and parameters that can be adjusted if you use LLDV.


Which settings are you using in the hdfury?


----------



## Remy.Alexander

rooterha said:


> Which settings are you using in the hdfury?


The pros- need to have a dummies quick setup for those of us without the time to sit there tinkering or the attention span to do so. Every damn PJ thread HDfury this HDfury that- Each thread should have the big brains post a basic settings to get everything running then if you have the time or brain you can learn more.

Im days away from a PJ purchase and reading these and o I have better results with HDfury just spend another $500--btw massive learning curve


----------



## m0j0

Remy.Alexander said:


> The pros- need to have a dummies quick setup for those of us without the time to sit there tinkering or the attention span to do so. Every damn PJ thread HDfury this HDfury that- Each thread should have the big brains post a basic settings to get everything running then if you have the time or brain you can learn more.
> 
> Im days away from a PJ purchase and reading these and o I have better results with HDfury just spend another $500--btw massive learning curve


I have posted my settings on page 305 of the T1 thread. I do not have a Global T1 so someone who does would need to post their settings to share with others. Even still, it can vary from setup to setup (different screens, lighting conditions, etc), so some level of effort will always be required to get the best picture possible in your environment and with your gear.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

m0j0 said:


> I have posted my settings on page 305 of the T1 thread. I do not have a Global T1 so someone who does would need to post their settings to share with others. Even still, it can vary from setup to setup (different screens, lighting conditions, etc), so some level of effort will always be required to get the best picture possible in your environment and with your gear.


Ill check those out- appreciate it. 
I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just pop right in and get going in a couple hours.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Remy.Alexander said:


> Ill check those out- appreciate it.
> I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just pop right in and get going in a couple hours.


I just use my Nvidia Shield Pro to disengage DV on any content and the picture is fantastic with the International T1 model. I don't think you need the HD Fury in the chain at all. My personal opinion.


----------



## Diarf22

So I picked up my Formovie Theater, and first I just want to give a huge thanks to Brian for his help and assistance! The customer service really is fantastic, and thanks for working with Affirm to get me the interest-free financing while also picking the unit up in store as I preferred.

I'll share more thoughts about how the Theater performs in my floor to ceiling black velvet space later, but for first impressions on Dolby Vision I noticed something interesting (the threads are long so apologies in advance if someone already mentioned this).

TLDR, Dolby Vision bright room is the mode you want to use in my opinion. After a lot of testing, from the infamous Aquaman Ch. 6 scene and many, many others on both disc and streaming last night, it becomes very clear that the dark room mode is clipping highlight detail. Bright room, comparatively, handles exactly as you'd expect and is a real treat.

Dave, were your issues including the low contrast observed in both Dolby Vision bright and dark modes or only the dark mode? Naturally, I expected the dark room mode to be best for my environment but bright is far superior for preserving highlights and rich colors. If your observations were based on dark mode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts if you took a look at the bright mode with your expertise. To my eye, there's a world of difference between them.

I do have a Vertex 2 here as well so eventually I want to hook that up and do a more detailed compare to between DV bright and LLDV.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Ricoflashback said:


> I just use my Nvidia Shield Pro to disengage DV on any content and the picture is fantastic with the International T1 model. I don't think you need the HD Fury in the chain at all. My personal opinion.


Hmm interesting- so you just use HDR/HDR10? I have the Shield Pro- I may have to try that. I know DV is amazing but the hassle seems involved with HDfury looks like a nightmare.


----------



## tnaik4

@Dave Harper 
I have kind of a tricky question if i may.

U know when using MadVR we have to input the nits we get on screen from 100% white to get accurate dtm.
I use a regular white 1.1 gain screen, so no CLR that throw the light back at the viewer.
With my T1 i m not sure which nbr to use, cause if i use the meter angling down i get almost double the nits reading compared to the meter looking straight at the screen.
I m not sure which reading my eyes are seeing.

Thank you


----------



## Ricoflashback

Remy.Alexander said:


> Hmm interesting- so you just use HDR/HDR10? I have the Shield Pro- I may have to try that. I know DV is amazing but the hassle seems involved with HDfury looks like a nightmare.


I'm a "set it and forget it" guy. I'm weary of all the "add-ons" you have to potentially purchase to get Dolby Vision correct. DV has been a big disappointment and nightmare in its implementation, IMHO. Just to dark for the majority and tons of tweaking to get it right per each display. So I chose to go with a standard SDR or HDR/Ultra 4K picture. Plenty enough bright for me and the colors look great. I stream 99.9% so no use for madVR via a PC. No faus 4K discs either. Cable for sports and streaming. That's it. Simple.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Ricoflashback said:


> I'm a "set it and forget it" guy. I'm weary of all the "add-ons" you have to potentially purchase to get Dolby Vision correct. DV has been a big disappointment and nightmare in its implementation, IMHO. Just to dark for the majority and tons of tweaking to get it right per each display. So I chose to go with a standard SDR or HDR/Ultra 4K picture. Plenty enough bright for me and the colors look great. I stream 99.9% so no use for madVR via a PC. No faus 4K discs either. Cable for sports and streaming. That's it. Simple.


Same here for TVS- set it and forget it. I guess if itll do HDR10/+ ill be happy with that, HDR10/+ is supposed to be really good. my tweaking insanity comes from audio side and setup lol. I have ten subs to implement and make sure are perfect. I dont have time for video- Current tv i just set to best outta box settings recommended and left if for 3 years now.


----------



## Dave Harper

rooterha said:


> Which settings are you using in the hdfury?


I’ve posted these quite a few times but maybe not in this thread. 






























Diarf22 said:


> So I picked up my Formovie Theater, and first I just want to give a huge thanks to Brian for his help and assistance! The customer service really is fantastic, and thanks for working with Affirm to get me the interest-free financing while also picking the unit up in store as I preferred.
> 
> I'll share more thoughts about how the Theater performs in my floor to ceiling black velvet space later, but for first impressions on Dolby Vision I noticed something interesting (the threads are long so apologies in advance if someone already mentioned this).
> 
> TLDR, Dolby Vision bright room is the mode you want to use in my opinion. After a lot of testing, from the infamous Aquaman Ch. 6 scene and many, many others on both disc and streaming last night, it becomes very clear that the dark room mode is clipping highlight detail. Bright room, comparatively, handles exactly as you'd expect and is a real treat.
> 
> Dave, were your issues including the low contrast observed in both Dolby Vision bright and dark modes or only the dark mode? Naturally, I expected the dark room mode to be best for my environment but bright is far superior for preserving highlights and rich colors. If your observations were based on dark mode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts if you took a look at the bright mode with your expertise. To my eye, there's a world of difference between them.
> 
> I do have a Vertex 2 here as well so eventually I want to hook that up and do a more detailed compare to between DV bright and LLDV.


I tried both and feel LLDV is better. 



Remy.Alexander said:


> Hmm interesting- so you just use HDR/HDR10? I have the Shield Pro- I may have to try that. I know DV is amazing but the hassle seems involved with HDfury looks like a nightmare.


It’s actually pretty simple to get started with a great image almost always better than HDR10. Just select custom EDID 5, 9 or 10 on the EDID tab and click “Use Custom HDR when input is LLDV” on the HDR/AVI tab and you’re off and running with ~1,000 nits LLDV to HDR!



tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper
> I have kind of a tricky question if i may.
> 
> U know when using MadVR we have to input the nits we get on screen from 100% white to get accurate dtm.
> I use a regular white 1.1 gain screen, so no CLR that throw the light back at the viewer.
> With my T1 i m not sure which nbr to use, cause if i use the meter angling down i get almost double the nits reading compared to the meter looking straight at the screen.
> I m not sure which reading my eyes are seeing.
> 
> Thank you


Well from what I understand that number is more for the processing to figure out it’s DTM parameters, not what you technically see on screen as far as how bright whatever that peak white is. So if you have a number that’s too high, it’ll clip whites in the DTM processing stage regardless, so your on screen image will be clipped either way. So what you’ll see is a clipped overblown image with either 100 nits brightness (bigger angle) or 80 nits (straight on) as an example. 

So if it were me, I’d use the highest peak you can get. That’s how most calibrators, including myself and Jason Dustal from Murideo, setup their meters before a session. We angle the meter to achieve the brightest reading on a 100% white patch.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve posted these quite a few times but maybe not in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried both and feel LLDV is better.
> 
> 
> 
> It’s actually pretty simple to get started with a heat image almost always better than HDR10. Just select custom EDID 5, 9 or 10 on the EDID tab and click “Use Custom HDR when input is LLDV” on the HDR/AVI tab and you’re off and running with ~1,000 nits LLDV to HDR!
> 
> 
> 
> Well from what I understand that number is more for the processing to figure out it’s DTM parameters, not what you technically see on screen as far as how bright whatever that peak white is. So if you have a number that’s too high, it’ll clip whites in the DTM processing stage regardless, so your on screen image will be clipped either way. So what you’ll see is a clipped overblown image with either 100 nits brightness (bigger angle) or 80 nits (straight on) as an example.
> 
> So if it were me, I’d use the highest peak you can get. That’s how most calibrators, including myself and Jason Dustal from Murideo, setup their meters before a session. We angle the meter to achieve the brightest reading on a 100% white patch.


THanks for posting them, I saved the images does it apply to all (5/9/10) etc? Or do I have to do that for each..Or is that just your display


----------



## JereyWolf

tnaik4 said:


> @Dave Harper
> I have kind of a tricky question if i may.
> 
> U know when using MadVR we have to input the nits we get on screen from 100% white to get accurate dtm.
> I use a regular white 1.1 gain screen, so no CLR that throw the light back at the viewer.
> With my T1 i m not sure which nbr to use, cause if i use the meter angling down i get almost double the nits reading compared to the meter looking straight at the screen.
> I m not sure which reading my eyes are seeing.
> 
> Thank you


Since you have a 135" screen, the 100 nits reading you measured is more likely to be accurate, assuming you have roughly 1400 lumens after calibration which is what I have and very close to other calibrated output that I've seen posted.


----------



## Dave Harper

Remy.Alexander said:


> THanks for posting them, I saved the images does it apply to all (5/9/10) etc? Or do I have to do that for each..Or is that just your display


I think you are misunderstanding. There are two ways you can go about this to get LLDV. You can use a custom EDID, which is what I am talking about to easily get up and running by using 5, 9, or 10. These are basically EDIDs directly copied from DV capable flat panels such as Sony (5,10 sort of) and Panasonic (9), whom both support LLDV. 

Or you can use automix which is the more complicated and customized settings. What Automix does is it takes the EDID from your display and mixes it with whatever other parameters you check off in that section, which in our case would be the one to use the DV tab (where you can then go to and customize that tab as well) and also you can set what audio and transmit parameter to use. On some displays that don’t accept HDR10 plus you can click that as well but if your display already supports HDR10 then you don’t really need to click that.

When I mentioned the custom EDIDs to the other poster it was just to let him know that to get started isn’t hard if you don’t want to try in depth complicated settings yet. 

The GUI images I posted for you are the more In depth ones and specific to what I’m doing using Automix with custom HDR and DV parameters.

You choose one or the other. They don’t work together. They’re separate options and you can decide which to use by checking “Custom” and then use the drop down to select a custom EDID number like 5, 9, or 10 or checking “Automix” under the EDID tab of the GUI.


----------



## DesertDog

I got mine partially set up last night. The projector isn't in its final position yet so I haven't tweaked the focus, colors, or anything. It was mainly getting everything hooked up and then tweaking the rest of the weekend. Out of the box it looks pretty good though. Better than I expected. I don't appear to have any of the dust in the lens or other issues so far. I don't really want to comment on color, black levels, etc. until I try to configure everything. 

I do have a few minor config issues though that I need to track down. If anyone has suggestions please fire away:

1. My Apple TV won't do 4k DV with it. Setting the display to "4K Dolby Vision" gives be a blank screen and then it reverts to last settings. It works with both 4K SDR and 4K HDR. It'll do 1080 DV too, just not 4K. I also couldn't get a couple video files to play in DV. They came up as HDR10 in both the Theater's OSD and my Diva's OSD. It's not the cable since the same one worked with my Z9X with the same video files. So I'm thinking EDID but I need to dig into it. 

2. I turned off the speaker on it since I'm plugged into my AVR. Now every time I turn it on I get a system prompt to turn the speakers back on. I need to find if there's a way to get rid of it. 

3. My third issue is super bad but not the projectors fault. Moving and setting everything up last night introduced a major hum to all of my bass and TR amps. I had the horror of no bass last night. I'm really hoping I can find an easy fix to this one when I start playing with it today.


----------



## tnaik4

JereyWolf said:


> Since you have a 135" screen, the 100 nits reading you measured is more likely to be accurate, assuming you have roughly 1400 lumens after calibration which is what I have and very close to other calibrated output that I've seen posted.


Yeah this is in View Mode, can even measure higher if i have a more extreem angle.


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> I got mine partially set up last night. The projector isn't in its final position yet so I haven't tweaked the focus, colors, or anything. It was mainly getting everything hooked up and then tweaking the rest of the weekend. Out of the box it looks pretty good though. Better than I expected. I don't appear to have any of the dust in the lens or other issues so far. I don't really want to comment on color, black levels, etc. until I try to configure everything.
> 
> I do have a few minor config issues though that I need to track down. If anyone has suggestions please fire away:
> 
> 1. My Apple TV won't do 4k DV with it. Setting the display to "4K Dolby Vision" gives be a blank screen and then it reverts to last settings. It works with both 4K SDR and 4K HDR. It'll do 1080 DV too, just not 4K. I also couldn't get a couple video files to play in DV. They came up as HDR10 in both the Theater's OSD and my Diva's OSD. It's not the cable since the same one worked with my Z9X with the same video files. So I'm thinking EDID but I need to dig into it.
> 
> 2. I turned off the speaker on it since I'm plugged into my AVR. Now every time I turn it on I get a system prompt to turn the speakers back on. I need to find if there's a way to get rid of it.
> 
> 3. My third issue is super bad but not the projectors fault. Moving and setting everything up last night introduced a major hum to all of my bass and TR amps. I had the horror of no bass last night. I'm really hoping I can find an easy fix to this one when I start playing with it today.


I can speak to number one. What you want to do while you are actively on that input is click the cog settings button to the upper right of the circular control pad and then go all the way to the right to the green settings tab and then down to device preferences and down to inputs and then second from the bottom says Hdmi EDID version and try clicking on that and setting to EDID 2.0 or 2.1. Auto doesn’t seem to always work correctly for me, at least on HDMI input one but it worked on HDMI input two for some reason


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Diarf22 said:


> I'll share more thoughts about how the Theater performs in my floor to ceiling black velvet space later, but for first impressions on Dolby Vision I noticed something interesting (the threads are long so apologies in advance if someone already mentioned this).
> 
> TLDR, Dolby Vision bright room is the mode you want to use in my opinion. After a lot of testing, from the infamous Aquaman Ch. 6 scene and many, many others on both disc and streaming last night, it becomes very clear that the dark room mode is clipping highlight detail. Bright room, comparatively, handles exactly as you'd expect and is a real treat.


I noticed the same on my L9G, which got the Dolby Vision update this week. I made a thread with screenshots of Aquaman chapter 6. Does this match up with what you saw on your Theater? Dolby Vision on the Hisense L9G and PX1-Pro (feedback...


----------



## Diarf22

BatmanNewsChris said:


> I noticed the same on my L9G, which got the Dolby Vision update this week. I made a thread with screenshots of Aquaman chapter 6. Does this match up with what you saw on your Theater? Dolby Vision on the Hisense L9G and PX1-Pro (feedback...


That's shockingly similar. In fact, the waves in that Aquaman scene on the L9G look almost identical to the Theater's dark mode, which motivated me to look at Ch 6 and test some other scenes. Sure enough, it clips and washes out colors all over the place in just about every movie I tested. Comparatively, DV Bright is a home run.

Hopefully both our models get a firmware fix. I'm planning on comparing LLDV in the next day or so, but I could easily live with the results of DV Bright compared to a static tone map. That said, I do expect LLDV to be superior given the current state of things as Dave Harper noted.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Diarf22 said:


> That's shockingly similar. In fact, the waves in that Aquaman scene on the L9G look almost identical to the Theater's dark mode, which motivated me to look at Ch 6 and test some other scenes. Sure enough, it clips and washes out colors all over the place in just about every movie I tested. Comparatively, DV Bright is a home run.
> 
> Hopefully both our models get a firmware fix. I'm planning on comparing LLDV in the next day or so, but I could easily live with the results of DV Bright compared to a static tone map. That said, I do expect LLDV to be superior given the current state of things as Dave Harper noted.


Interesting! I was beta testing the L9G DV firmware, and the beta was great! It didn't have this issue. DV Dark looked amazing and didn't blow out the highlights/colors. 

I don't like the way DV Bright looks on the L9G. DV Dark is the superior mode in my dark media room. But unfortunately, DV Dark doesn't seem to be tone-mapping 4,000nit content, while DV Bright tone-maps very well. It's a big bug that they need to fix ASAP. Hopefully the Theater gets a fix soon too!


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Whats the "minimum" HDfury to use with this LLDV? Everything will come from AVR to PJ- so I dont need multiple ins or outs or capturing.


----------



## m0j0

Remy.Alexander said:


> Whats the "minimum" HDfury to use with this LLDV? Everything will come from AVR to PJ- so I dont need multiple ins or outs or capturing.


Vertex2 would be minimum I would recommend if you’re going with an HDFury device.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

m0j0 said:


> Vertex2 would be minimum I would recommend if you’re going with an HDFury device.


Thanks---I was afraid of that.. With tax and shipping $500- May just have to disable DV in my shield and hope they update.. Price makes no sense and unjustifiable to use something it was intended for.


----------



## m0j0

Remy.Alexander said:


> Thanks---I was afraid of that.. With tax and shipping $500- May just have to disable DV in my shield and hope they update.. Price makes no sense and unjustifiable to use something it was intended for.


You will be fine with this approach. That’s how I am running currently on my T1 and Nvidia Shield.


----------



## Dave Harper

You can use an Arcana with great results.


----------



## clipghost

Whats a good affordable 120" UST ALR screen to pair this with? Spectra seems expensive, even though I can see the good track record with it.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

clipghost said:


> Whats a good affordable 120" UST ALR screen to pair this with? Spectra seems expensive, even though I can see the good track record with it.


what he said lol

Owners- Who uses theirs without a ALR screen? I have 99% dark room and their prices are stupid. I was considering a millskin screen (like 0.7/0.8). Cheapest ALR ive seen is VAVA $899


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Dave Harper said:


> You can use an Arcana with great results.


If its capable of the same stuff so I can set it and forget it Id be happy with that price. I just want to for LLDV to HDR10/+ and ill probably never mess with it after that lol.


----------



## rjyap

Remy.Alexander said:


> what he said lol
> 
> Owners- Who uses theirs without a ALR screen? I have 99% dark room and their prices are stupid. I was considering a millskin screen (like 0.7/0.8). Cheapest ALR ive seen is VAVA $899


Few of us use traditional white screen for long throw projector in dark theater room. I also purchase an AT screen at 135" which I haven't setup.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

m0j0 said:


> You will be fine with this approach. That’s how I am running currently on my T1 and Nvidia Shield.


Would I gain any benefits using a HF Fury Arcana, with HDR Not enabled on Apple ATV4K, and just using the SDR settings in the APTV4 , and if so, what HDMI settings (YCbCr, or RGB HIGH) should I use to maximize DOLBY VIDEO.


----------



## ba_crane

rjyap said:


> Few of us use traditional white screen for long throw projector in dark theater room. I also purchase an AT screen at 135" which I haven't setup.


Please, please, PLEASE set this AT screen up and let me know. This would solve a lot of my problems if AT screen looks good.


----------



## DesertDog

clipghost said:


> Whats a good affordable 120" UST ALR screen to pair this with? Spectra seems expensive, even though I can see the good track record with it.


I'm just getting going with it but the 120" ALR ScreenPro screen I bought is nice. So far I'm happy with it. I got it off of alibaba for about $1600 total for the floor rising model. I know they have fixed frames that are cheaper.


----------



## m0j0

MRJAZZZ said:


> Would I gain any benefits using a HF Fury Arcana, with HDR Not enabled on Apple ATV4K, and just using the SDR settings in the APTV4 , and if so, what HDMI settings (YCbCr, or RGB HIGH) should I use to maximize DOLBY VIDEO.


You only need to use an HDFury device if you're trying to do DV/LLDV. If you're using SDR, then you don't need it. With ATV4K, you can force DV/LLDV, so if you went that route, then yes, you would want an HDFury device.


----------



## Grazed

DesertDog said:


> I got mine partially set up last night. The projector isn't in its final position yet so I haven't tweaked the focus, colors, or anything. It was mainly getting everything hooked up and then tweaking the rest of the weekend. Out of the box it looks pretty good though. Better than I expected. I don't appear to have any of the dust in the lens or other issues so far. I don't really want to comment on color, black levels, etc. until I try to configure everything.
> 
> I do have a few minor config issues though that I need to track down. If anyone has suggestions please fire away:
> 
> 1. My Apple TV won't do 4k DV with it. Setting the display to "4K Dolby Vision" gives be a blank screen and then it reverts to last settings. It works with both 4K SDR and 4K HDR. It'll do 1080 DV too, just not 4K. I also couldn't get a couple video files to play in DV. They came up as HDR10 in both the Theater's OSD and my Diva's OSD. It's not the cable since the same one worked with my Z9X with the same video files. So I'm thinking EDID but I need to dig into it.
> 
> 2. I turned off the speaker on it since I'm plugged into my AVR. Now every time I turn it on I get a system prompt to turn the speakers back on. I need to find if there's a way to get rid of it.
> 
> 3. My third issue is super bad but not the projectors fault. Moving and setting everything up last night introduced a major hum to all of my bass and TR amps. I had the horror of no bass last night. I'm really hoping I can find an easy fix to this one when I start playing with it today.


I saw Dave already answered question #1 for you but that is the HDMI handshake issue that plagues both the international and chinese T1. You shouldn't have to mess with the EDID settings too often but it will happen occasionally.

#2 What you can do is leave the speakers "on" but just turn the volume all the way to off so it is muted and that prompt won't appear anymore. That is what I did to stop it.


----------



## Grazed

I found out what setting gives the international T1 noticeably better blacks and contrast compared to the chinese version and that was the "Adaptive Luma Control" setting under advanced video which is something different than the "Dynamic Contrast" on the chinese T1 though that is still there as well but it is called "Local Contrast Control" now. It doesn't seem to crush blacks in any dark scenes or lift highlights unlike the Dynamic Contrast/Local Contrast Control does either.


----------



## DesertDog

Grazed said:


> I saw Dave already answered question #1 for you but that is the HDMI handshake issue that plagues both the international and chinese T1. You shouldn't have to mess with the EDID settings too often but it will happen occasionally.
> 
> #2 What you can do is leave the speakers "on" but just turn the volume all the way to off so it is muted and that prompt won't appear anymore. That is what I did to stop it.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll do that for the speaker. It's annoying that they don't have a disabled option. @ProjectionHead is there anyway for us to give feedback on stuff like this to them and do you know if they're doing any beta firmwares for it like they are the T1? 

Ah, and that's what the handshake issue is causing. I thought it was an all or nothing when it didn't work. I'm about to give Dave's suggestion a try and I've also "fixed" my EDID. I'm running through an HDFurry and there was one thing set from my old TV that might have been in play. So I also switched that around to the HDR and DV settings that Dave posted earlier. Hopefully it works. I'm about to get back to setting things up. Fixing my bass hum is the first priority since I don't have a work around for it like I do the other issues.


----------



## ba_crane

Grazed said:


> I found out what setting gives the international T1 noticeably better blacks and contrast compared to the chinese version and that was the "Adaptive Luma Control" setting under advanced video which is something different than the "Dynamic Contrast" on the chinese T1 though that is still there as well but it is called "Local Contrast Control" now. It doesn't seem to crush blacks in any dark scenes or lift highlights unlike the Dynamic Contrast/Local Contrast Control does either.


Those pics look nice


----------



## tnaik4

Grazed said:


> I found out what setting gives the international T1 noticeably better blacks and contrast compared to the chinese version and that was the "Adaptive Luma Control" setting under advanced video which is something different than the "Dynamic Contrast" on the chinese T1 though that is still there as well but it is called "Local Contrast Control" now. It doesn't seem to crush blacks in any dark scenes or lift highlights unlike the Dynamic Contrast/Local Contrast Control does either.


Have u measured the contrast with it on vs off ? To see if it actually reduces light output in dark scenes or just some gamma manipulation.


----------



## Grazed

tnaik4 said:


> Have u measured the contrast with it on vs off ? To see if it actually reduces light output in dark scenes or just some gamma manipulation.


I have not measured it but I didn’t notice any change in light output from the scenes I tested.


----------



## MDesigns

Grazed said:


> I have not measured it but I didn’t notice any change in light output from the scenes I tested.


I'm confused, you mentioned "noticeably better blacks" but you didn't notice change in light output? It would require light output to go lower for better blacks... Shame the reviews so far didn't deep dive to these settings? Pics look really good though!


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Grazed said:


> I found out what setting gives the international T1 noticeably better blacks and contrast compared to the chinese version and that was the "Adaptive Luma Control" setting under advanced video which is something different than the "Dynamic Contrast" on the chinese T1 though that is still there as well but it is called "Local Contrast Control" now. It doesn't seem to crush blacks in any dark scenes or lift highlights unlike the Dynamic Contrast/Local Contrast Control does either.


Jesus---ID be 1000% happy with that as my set up. Looks great! I aint got no $3K for a screen lol silly screen costs as much as pj


----------



## clipghost

Remy.Alexander said:


> Jesus---ID be 1000% happy with that as my set up. Looks great! I aint got no $3K for a screen lol silly screen costs as much as pj


Yeah, we need to find a cheaper screen for sure. What about XY Screens PET Crystal? Any one have info on those?


----------



## m0j0

clipghost said:


> Yeah, we need to find a cheaper screen for sure. What about XY Screens PET Crystal? Any one have info on those?


I have a 100" XY Screens PET Crystal ALR and it works great with the T1.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Pic of various CLR screen surfaces - working on a larger comparison. It still waiting for several samples

lights on = big difference in black levels and ALR; lights off they are much more similar in black levels


----------



## rjyap

PET grid seems to be the worst material. Greyish black and the texture is quite visible. DarkUST looks like very good ambient light rejection and not much texture detected.


----------



## clipghost

rjyap said:


> PET grid seems to be the worst material. Greyish black and the texture is quite visible. DarkUST looks like very good ambient light rejection and not much texture detected.


Sadly I agree, a bit cheaper in price but much worse quality. Spectra looks best in that photo during day. Night they are all about same.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

clipghost said:


> Yeah, we need to find a cheaper screen for sure. What about XY Screens PET Crystal? Any one have info on those?


I just checked the prices of a 120" "pet crystal" $1179+$75 shipping FML- I may just do the VAVA $899


----------



## Remy.Alexander

ProjectionHead said:


> Pic of various CLR screen surfaces - working on a larger comparison. It still waiting for several samples
> 
> lights on = big difference in black levels and ALR; lights off they are much more similar in black levels
> View attachment 3311179
> 
> View attachment 3311180


Am I an idiot or broken-? Dark UST2 looks better but still to much barbie glitter sparkles


----------



## clipghost

Remy.Alexander said:


> I just checked the prices of a 120" "pet crystal" $1179+$75 shipping FML- I may just do the VAVA $899


But how is the quality/gain of Vava?


----------



## Remy.Alexander

clipghost said:


> But how is the quality/gain of Vava?


Dont know lol but price is better haha this is hurting my brain so much


----------



## ProjectionHead

Remy.Alexander said:


> Am I an idiot or broken-? Dark UST2 looks better but still to much barbie glitter sparkles


Neither, just may be hard to tell the real differences from the photos.
Spectra & DarkUST are virtually indiscernible and have the best ALR & Black levels (Grandview is no longer available in the USA since they took money, never delivered products and closed shop.. but that's a story for another place/time)
DarkUST2 definitely has some sparkle and not nearly as good black levels or ALR as the DarkstarUST.
Generally speaking, with Elite Screens, when they add a number after the surface name it is going down in price and ALR (contrary to intuition)


----------



## Remy.Alexander

clipghost said:


> Sadly I agree, a bit cheaper in price but much worse quality. Spectra looks best in that photo during day. Night they are all about same.


BUt I bet thats a $2000 screen


----------



## clipghost

Remy.Alexander said:


> Dont know lol but price is better haha this is hurting my brain so much





Remy.Alexander said:


> BUt I bet thats a $2000 screen


Yes I definitely think spending $2000+ on a screen is crazy when Vava is right there for $900. Nice find! That seems like the best price. Where would you buy it from? Direct them? Or another place? Feel free to DM to talk more about it if wanted.


----------



## dami1337

110 XY pet crystal screen (T1 chinese version). Great build quality, heavy and significant upside vs wall only even in the dark.

These are daylight photos (no direct sunlight).


----------



## Remy.Alexander

clipghost said:


> Yes I definitely think spending $2000+ on a screen is crazy when Vava is right there for $900. Nice find! That seems like the best price. Where would you buy it from? Direct them? Or another place? Feel free to DM to talk more about it if wanted.


I just found that DarkStar- It looks amazing but $3200!!!!!! Then $3200 for the Formovie-- like seriously might as well just get a 83" C2 or 83" G2 for that price


----------



## ProjectionHead

Remy.Alexander said:


> BUt I bet thats a $2000 screen


It is for a 110/120”
Price on all lenticular surfaces jumps greatly above 100”


----------



## ProjectionHead

Remy.Alexander said:


> I just found that DarkStar- It looks amazing but $3200!!!!!! Then $3200 for the Formovie-- like seriously might as well just get a 83" C2 or 83" G2 for that price


Well sure, if you want a much smaller image. I'd probably go with a TV too at 90" or below but a 120” image is over 2x larger than an 83” and the experience isn't comparable.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Remy.Alexander said:


> I just found that DarkStar- It looks amazing but $3200!!!!!! Then $3200 for the Formovie-- like seriously might as well just get a 83" C2 or 83" G2 for that price


Not an apples to apples comparison. Besides, to me - - a large screen experience trumps any TV. Even my 48" Sony A9S OLED which has impeccable colors with no banding, blobbing, tinting or grid effect.

It just ain't the same Remy. Besides - - it's a one time investment that should last you 10 years or so. But by then, something new will be out to tickle your fancy.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> Yes I definitely think spending $2000+ on a screen is crazy when Vava is right there for $900. Nice find! That seems like the best price. Where would you buy it from? Direct them? Or another place? Feel free to DM to talk more about it if wanted.


Is it also crazy to spend $3,000 on a projector when there is an inferior one available for $2,000?
Not all screens are the same, just like not all projectors are the same.
Is the price increase worth the extra quality/benefit? That’s up the the person spending the $ and what each extra dollar means to them.


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Is it also crazy to spend $3,000 on a projector when there is an inferior one available for $2,000?
> Not all screens are the same, just like not all projectors are the same.
> Is the price increase worth the extra quality/benefit? That’s up the the person spending the $ and what each extra dollar means to them.


I feel like the projector is worth the price, no question. When it comes to the screen, it doesn't register with me. People can make their own if wanted. I understand one is better than the other for black levels/ALR, etc.... But for the price, I would rather save the money and go towards audio. Give and take I guess.


----------



## rjyap

clipghost said:


> Sadly I agree, a bit cheaper in price but much worse quality. Spectra looks best in that photo during day. Night they are all about same.


Spectra have the best black but it also pull the white down too much and might kill the color pop.


----------



## m0j0

I believe in price/performance, so if the projector or screen is 33% better, then that justifies the price increase. That is my mindset when I'm making a purchase typically.


----------



## Grazed

MDesigns said:


> I'm confused, you mentioned "noticeably better blacks" but you didn't notice change in light output? It would require light output to go lower for better blacks... Shame the reviews so far didn't deep dive to these settings? Pics look really good though!


What I was referring to was the brightness of highlights didn’t change but blacks got deeper. I was just clarifying that it wasn’t just lowering the overall laser brightness to achieve this. It might just be some gamma manipulation like @tnaik4 suggested


----------



## Sonny Red

clipghost said:


> Yes I definitely think spending $2000+ on a screen is crazy when Vava is right there for $900. Nice find! That seems like the best price. Where would you buy it from? Direct them? Or another place? Feel free to DM to talk more about it if wanted.


If you go for a UST the screen is very important. If you choose a good UST projector but an average screen the image won’t be good. Quality is less important for a standard/long throw.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Sonny Red said:


> If you go for a UST the screen is very important. If you choose a good UST projector but an average screen the image won’t be good. Quality is less important for a standard/long throw.


I can understand folks not wanting to spend a great amount on a projector screen. But UST Projectors have their own challenges to overcome in attaining the best picture quality. Especially if you want to view in the daytime. After purchasing my International T1 from Brian, I can say that you can get a decent picture on the wall but only at night. Forget daytime viewing as you'll really need a UST ALR screen. In my case and since we're renting until we buy a house - - I went with a cheaper 100" Wemax "Amazon Prime Special" at $399. Yes, it's definitely inferior to most of the screens out there but it will be better than wall for the time being.

When we move, I want to get a 120" screen. I'm going to look at it as an investment. I think the key factors are light rejection, black and white levels. In other words - - what is the best screen to handle light, provide the best blacks without sacrificing too much "brightness" of the PJ. So far and in my price range - - the Elite 120" DarkUST seems to be the leader in the clubhouse. Too bad that Grandview went out of business as that was the biggest bang for the buck. 

Any folks with the Elite DarkUST screen that can comment?


----------



## Grazed

Remy.Alexander said:


> Jesus---ID be 1000% happy with that as my set up. Looks great! I aint got no $3K for a screen lol silly screen costs as much as pj


My screen doesn’t make a massive difference when I run my room with the lights off so if you are in a dedicated room and never plan on having the lights on then you can even get a regular 1.0 gain white screen and it should look pretty similar.

When I play games in here with friends/family I have the lights on which is what makes the screen worth it but I’m sure there are similar performing CLR screens for less money. At the time I was setting up my theater all the other screens were on backorder and I didn’t want to wait a month or two so I just grabbed the one I have.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I can understand folks not wanting to spend a great amount on a projector screen. But UST Projectors have their own challenges to overcome in attaining the best picture quality. Especially if you want to view in the daytime. After purchasing my International T1 from Brian, I can say that you can get a decent picture on the wall but only at night. Forget daytime viewing as you'll really need a UST ALR screen. In my case and since we're renting until we buy a house - - I went with a cheaper 100" Wemax "Amazon Prime Special" at $399. Yes, it's definitely inferior to most of the screens out there but it will be better than wall for the time being.
> 
> When we move, I want to get a 120" screen. I'm going to look at it as an investment. I think the key factors are light rejection, black and white levels. In other words - - what is the best screen to handle light, provide the best blacks without sacrificing too much "brightness" of the PJ. So far and in my price range - - the Elite 120" DarkUST seems to be the leader in the clubhouse. Too bad that Grandview went out of business as that was the biggest bang for the buck.
> 
> Any folks with the Elite DarkUST screen that can comment?


Spectra is the same price as the Grandview ended up at but has a much better frame (velvet coated, mitered corners, more rugged) and adjustable mounting brackets. Have had 0 reports of tensioning issues with the Spectra, which seemed to plague the Grandview along with the worlds worst customer support IMHO.
The Grandview, Spectra and DarkUST surface-wise are all extremely similar.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Spectra is the same price as the Grandview ended up at but has a much better frame (velvet coated, mitered corners, more rugged) and adjustable mounting brackets. Have had 0 reports of tensioning issues with the Spectra, which seemed to plague the Grandview along with the worlds worst customer support IMHO.
> The Grandview, Spectra and DarkUST surface-wise are all extremely similar.


Sounds like you think the Spectra and DarkUST are pretty much the same picture quality. This picture, however, scared me a little as it looked like it's way too dark with the Spectra screen. From your website:


----------



## Grazed

Ricoflashback said:


> Any folks with the Elite DarkUST screen that can comment?


I'm just now realizing the price increased a bit compared to when I bought mine which at the time was close to the current Spectra 120" price. The screen is overall great and I have no complaints but at current pricing I would've grabbed the Spectra. The only other decent option at the time when I was looking though was the Grandview Dynamique (was on backorder) was about half the price of the DarkUST if I recall correctly but after seeing what Brian said about tension issues and lack of customer support it looks like I dodged a bullet.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Sounds like you think the Spectra and DarkUST are pretty much the same picture quality. This picture, however, scared me a little as it looked like it's way too dark with the Spectra screen. From your website:
> 
> View attachment 3311263


That was a marketing photo provided by spectra. Perhaps we’ll photograph our own and replace.
Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> That was a marketing photo provided by spectra. Perhaps we’ll photograph our own and replace.
> Thanks for the feedback


Yes - it looks like that photo doesn't do the screen justice, so to speak. It's not a good comparison, IMHO.


----------



## Dave Harper

Remy.Alexander said:


> If its capable of the same stuff so I can set it and forget it Id be happy with that price. I just want to for LLDV to HDR10/+ and ill probably never mess with it after that lol.


Yes you can set and forget the HDR and DV settings as well as using custom HDR10 when input is LLDV. 

You don’t have as many customizable settings to the n’th degree but it has preset settings that should suffice. Such as being able to set nit levels per nit, etc. Go read the manual to get an idea. 



Grazed said:


> What I was referring to was the brightness of highlights didn’t change but blacks got deeper. I was just clarifying that it wasn’t just lowering the overall laser brightness to achieve this. It might just be some gamma manipulation like @tnaik4 suggested


I’ll see if I can measure this while I have one here.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

ProjectionHead said:


> Is it also crazy to spend $3,000 on a projector when there is an inferior one available for $2,000?
> Not all screens are the same, just like not all projectors are the same.
> Is the price increase worth the extra quality/benefit? That’s up the the person spending the $ and what each extra dollar means to them.


Well what would you- recommend for $1000- cheapest 110 i see is $2300 on your site and I cant justify that. Was trying to "bundle" on you site but screens are outta my price range.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Remy.Alexander said:


> Well what would you- recommend for $1000- cheapest 110 i see is $2300 on your site and I cant justify that. Was trying to "bundle" on you site but screens are outta my price range.


I think elite makes a CLR variant in 113”; shoot me an email to the address in my signature and post this question and your avsf username; will hit you back up when at office tomorrow.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Is this UST more difficult to set up and "dial in", due to only having two adjustable feet ? (the rear feet are adjustable, the front apparently are not).


----------



## tnaik4

Sorry this post was meant for the T1 thread, i deleted it.


----------



## Kris404

clipghost said:


> Yes I definitely think spending $2000+ on a screen is crazy when Vava is right there for $900. Nice find! That seems like the best price. Where would you buy it from? Direct them? Or another place? Feel free to DM to talk more about it if wanted.


DM me if you're interested. I have a brand new, unopened Vava 120" UST ALR Pro screen.

No idea how it looks paired to a T1 though I'd imagine it might be similar to a Chroma.


----------



## rjyap

MRJAZZZ said:


> Is this UST more difficult to set up and "dial in", due to only having two adjustable feet ? (the rear feet are adjustable, the front apparently are not).


I would prefer 4 adjustable feet to dial in the corner geometry. Worst case scenario put it on top of a piece of wood with four adjustable feet at each corner.


----------



## Dave Harper

OK try these settings. Calibrated using the Klein K-10A profiled to a Jeti 1511 Hi-Res. I think they’re pretty awesome. Use them in conjunction with the HDFURY settings here:









Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Ill check those out- appreciate it. I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just...




www.avsforum.com





You may have to use a 0.005 min luminance setting on the DV tab if blacks are too crushed.


----------



## Dave Harper

Continued:


----------



## m0j0

Amazing job @Dave Harper!


----------



## Dave Harper

m0j0 said:


> Amazing job @Dave Harper!


Have you tried them?


----------



## m0j0

Dave Harper said:


> Have you tried them?


No, I don't have the Global, so can't try your settings for myself. I just think it's awesome that you posted full calibration values with all the high quality equipment you used for everyone to enjoy who has the Global T1. Wished you could have done the same with the Chinese T1, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## madmax777

hello everyone. I got the projector a couple of days ago. Any text has a green and red stroke. Tell me is this normal? or do I have a factory defect? projector Formovie Theater Global.


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> No, I don't have the Global, so can't try your settings for myself. I just think it's awesome that you posted full calibration values with all the high quality equipment you used for everyone to enjoy who has the Global T1. Wished you could have done the same with the Chinese T1, but that's neither here nor there.


So you can use Dave's settings without the HD Fury? BTW - I find the "Standard" colors out of the box pretty good.


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> So you can use Dave's settings without the HD Fury? BTW - I find the "Standard" colors out of the box pretty good.


You would have to ask Dave that question. Not sure.


----------



## Grazed

Dave Harper said:


> OK try these settings. Calibrated using the Klein K-10A profiled to a Jeti 1511 Hi-Res. I think they’re pretty awesome. Use them in conjunction with the HDFURY settings here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Ill check those out- appreciate it. I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may have to use a 0.005 min luminance setting on the DV tab if blacks are too crushed.


Thanks for the settings Dave! I noticed you have Adaptive Luma Control on "Strong" and Middle Contrast Control on "Middle" which is what I left mine on after playing around in certain scenes specifically dark scenes like Gravity. Did you ever get a chance yet to measure the brightness or contrast difference between having it on vs off to confirm if its actually dimming the laser vs gamma manipulation?


----------



## ba_crane

Aeon CineWhite® A8K 









Aeon CineWhite® A8K Series


Need a projection screen to complement your in-wall speakers? The Aeon AcousticPro UHD is an edge free projection screen that allows sound to pass through the material.




elitescreens.com





So is this just a marketing gimmick that they have designed an AT screen that works with UST projectors? Just about everyone has said an AT screen will not look good with a UST projector. If this works it would solve my small room problem, but hesitant to spend the money shipping/restocking it all back if it’s not really going to work.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> Aeon CineWhite® A8K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aeon CineWhite® A8K Series
> 
> 
> Need a projection screen to complement your in-wall speakers? The Aeon AcousticPro UHD is an edge free projection screen that allows sound to pass through the material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elitescreens.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is this just a marketing gimmick that they have designed an AT screen that works with UST projectors? Just about everyone has said an AT screen will not look good with a UST projector. If this works it would solve my small room problem, but hesitant to spend the money shipping/restocking it all back if it’s not really going to work.


That's a real interesting option. Must be a darkened theater, though. 

Brian - any experience with this screen? 

Also - PixelPusher X55467 (just kidding) - you did a nice job on AT screen reviews. Ever hear of this one?


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> That's a real interesting option. Must be a darkened theater, though.
> 
> Brian - any experience with this screen?
> 
> Also - PixelPusher X55467 (just kidding) - you did a nice job on AT screen reviews. Ever hear of this one?


My room is blacked out. Velvet on ceiling, velvet floor to ceiling drapes. Windows have blackout curtains. I can walk in there mid day and not see my hand in front of my face. Just worried about the weave affecting sharpness and any issue with how the light is bouncing off screen affecting brightness or contrast. It’s a shame if they are marketing as appropriate application if it’s not.


----------



## Grazed

madmax777 said:


> hello everyone. I got the projector a couple of days ago. Any text has a green and red stroke. Tell me is this normal? or do I have a factory defect? projector Formovie Theater Global.


I've seen it to varying degrees on different projectors and it is normal to see when you are right up on the screen. As long as it isn't noticeable at your sitting distance it is fine.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Have you tried them?


Thanks Dave! I'll try them out after work or maybe at lunch if I have enough time.


----------



## rooterha

I'll have mine tomorrow and will give your settings a go @Dave Harper - thanks for sharing!


----------



## Dave Harper

m0j0 said:


> No, I don't have the Global, so can't try your settings for myself. I just think it's awesome that you posted full calibration values with all the high quality equipment you used for everyone to enjoy who has the Global T1. Wished you could have done the same with the Chinese T1, but that's neither here nor there.


Maybe I’ll bring the China version home with me to play with after this UST showdown is done and things calm down a bit. 



Ricoflashback said:


> So you can use Dave's settings without the HD Fury? BTW - I find the "Standard" colors out of the box pretty good.





m0j0 said:


> You would have to ask Dave that question. Not sure.


No because the China version doesn’t have the same calibration controls as the new international version does. 



Grazed said:


> Thanks for the settings Dave! I noticed you have Adaptive Luma Control on "Strong" and Middle Contrast Control on "Middle" which is what I left mine on after playing around in certain scenes specifically dark scenes like Gravity. Did you ever get a chance yet to measure the brightness or contrast difference between having it on vs off to confirm if its actually dimming the laser vs gamma manipulation?


As a matter of fact I literally just tested this before moving the ForMovie Theater aside to finish calibrating the other projectors for the UST Showdown coming up!

As you can see, no discernible sequential contrast differences. You definitely see perceived and inter image contrast getting better though!


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> As a matter of fact I literally just tested this before moving the ForMovie Theater aside to finish calibrating the other projectors for the UST Showdown coming up!
> 
> As you can see, no discernible sequential contrast differences. You definitely see perceived and inter image contrast getting better though!


Were these measurements on a spectra 0.5 gain 100" screen?


----------



## ProjectionHead

ba_crane said:


> Aeon CineWhite® A8K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aeon CineWhite® A8K Series
> 
> 
> Need a projection screen to complement your in-wall speakers? The Aeon AcousticPro UHD is an edge free projection screen that allows sound to pass through the material.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elitescreens.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So is this just a marketing gimmick that they have designed an AT screen that works with UST projectors? Just about everyone has said an AT screen will not look good with a UST projector. If this works it would solve my small room problem, but hesitant to spend the money shipping/restocking it all back if it’s not really going to work.


It will technically "work" as it will reflect light. They also are claiming 8k resolution; or should I say "8K ready" whatever that may mean. We don't even agree with their claims of 4k resolution based on our ability to resolve a pixel grid without distortion. I'd suggest ordering a sample from them to try out for yourself once you have the projector.


----------



## ProjectionHead

m0j0 said:


> No, I don't have the Global, so can't try your settings for myself. I just think it's awesome that you posted full calibration values with all the high quality equipment you used for everyone to enjoy who has the Global T1. Wished you could have done the same with the Chinese T1, but that's neither here nor there.


No kudos for me? I paid for it!


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> No kudos for me? I paid for it!


You'll get nothing and like it, Spaulding.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> It will technically "work" as it will reflect light. They also are claiming 8k resolution; or should I say "8K ready" whatever that may mean. We don't even agree with their claims of 4k resolution based on our ability to resolve a pixel grid without distortion. I'd suggest ordering a sample from them to try out for yourself once you have the projector.


Great suggestion about a sample. And as large a sample as you can get. I'm not sure what the best way is to test with a sample but I'm sure others will chime in.


----------



## m0j0

ProjectionHead said:


> No kudos for me? I paid for it!


Definitely kudos for bringing Dave into the mix!


----------



## Dave Harper

JereyWolf said:


> Were these measurements on a spectra 0.5 gain 100" screen?


No it was this Vividstorm floor riser:









Vividstorm Motorized Floor Rising ALR Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throw Projectors 100 Inch - VSDSTUST100H - Vividstorm Vividstorm-VSDSTUST100H


Buy your Vividstorm VSDSTUST100H 100" projector screen from ProjectorScreen.com. This screen is Floor Standing and made to pair perfectly with Ultra Short Throw projectors. Find expert support and the best deals anywhere online.




www.projectorscreen.com







ProjectionHead said:


> No kudos for me? I paid for it!





Ricoflashback said:


> You'll get nothing and like it, Spaulding.


You didn’t pay for it yet. So far these meters are still loaners from Jeti and Projector Central. You’ll get props when you actually buy them, and you’ll like it as Rico says!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> No it was this Vividstorm floor riser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vividstorm Motorized Floor Rising ALR Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throw Projectors 100 Inch - VSDSTUST100H - Vividstorm Vividstorm-VSDSTUST100H
> 
> 
> Buy your Vividstorm VSDSTUST100H 100" projector screen from ProjectorScreen.com. This screen is Floor Standing and made to pair perfectly with Ultra Short Throw projectors. Find expert support and the best deals anywhere online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You didn’t pay for it yet. So far these meters are still loaners from Jeti and Projector Central. You’ll get props when you actually buy them, and you’ll like it as Rico says!


who’s paying you to do all this? 💰
I guess it’s all pro-bono for the community? Thanks Dave!


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> who’s paying you to do all this?
> I guess it’s all pro-bono for the community? Thanks Dave!


Oh you meant me. I thought you meant the equipment haha!

You ARE the man and I couldn’t do it without you!!!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> Oh you meant me. I thought you meant the equipment haha!
> 
> You ARE the man and I couldn’t do it without you!!!


Just busting your chops. I want my participation trophy! 🏆
For realizes though, we’re lucky to have you onboard helping with all of this as is everyone here in the AVSForum community 
😘


----------



## Dave Harper

You get all the trophies Brian, believe me!!!


----------



## Ricoflashback

The screen is up! I had a great installer who only charged $100 to put the Wemax 100" frame together and professionally hang it. Now, I know this isn't the best of UST ALR screens (we are in an apartment before we buy a house) so temper my comments with that information. 

*THE GOOD*

The wave from the wall is gone! Just no way to get rid of an out of plumb wall unless you do major work.
It looks nice and clean and neat.
I imagine that the black levels will be very good, especially at night.
No craters in people's faces from the imperfections on the wall.

*THE NOT SO GOOD*

You take a big hit in brightness with a .6 ALR screen. No ifs, ands or buts.
Still unwatchable in the daytime with sidelight. You must close all curtains and block as much light as you can.
No UST ALR screen can handle sidelight, IMHO. It washes out the picture, period.
If you think you can watch this screen in the daytime, you'll take a big hit on picture quality versus a TV. No ifs, ands or buts about that, as well.

*LESSONS LEARNED*

I'm glad I didn't spend big bucks on a UST ALR screen. Only $399 from Amazon. It will work fine for our temporary apartment living environment. 
This has me totally rethinking the type of 120" screen for our home. I'm thinking more of a 120" SilverTicket, Gray screen with a 1.0 gain and a larger frame, wrapped in velvet for any overscan. Or a similar type screen. Just not an ALR screen. With the International T1's lower black floor, I believe you can still get great results with a non ALR screen in a more light controlled room.
I'll try to control as much light as I can in our new place. Blinds and the ability to close them down if I'm watching during the day. A gray screen will help with darker black levels.
My ultimate setup in my past, dedicated home theater was a screen over a LCD or OLED TV (as large as you can get.) Still the best solution, IMHO, but only with a regular throw projector and a motorized screen. 

At night, the projector comes out (and on!) like all the nocturnal animals in nature.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> No it was this Vividstorm floor riser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vividstorm Motorized Floor Rising ALR Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throw Projectors 100 Inch - VSDSTUST100H - Vividstorm Vividstorm-VSDSTUST100H
> 
> 
> Buy your Vividstorm VSDSTUST100H 100" projector screen from ProjectorScreen.com. This screen is Floor Standing and made to pair perfectly with Ultra Short Throw projectors. Find expert support and the best deals anywhere online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorscreen.com


Side note looking at that screen. It does the same thing I hate about my floor rising ScreenPro, the power plug is upside down. It would be cleaner if they had it flipped.

edit: Actually looking at it more I'm wondering now if ScreenPro is the generic Chinese version of Vividstorm. The casing and even the USB fob look identical. I think at least the cases are the same. Can't tell if they use the same screen material though from the pictures.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Side note looking at that screen. It does the same thing I hate about my floor rising ScreenPro, the power plug is upside down. It would be cleaner if they had it flipped.
> 
> edit: Actually looking at it more I'm wondering now if ScreenPro is the generic Chinese version of Vividstorm. The casing and even the USB fob look identical. I think at least the cases are the same. Can't tell if they use the same screen material though from the pictures.


I thought Vividstorm was the generic Chinese version of Vividstorm 
j/k they are a solid product for the money


----------



## kaptaink45

Has anyone had any issues playing 1080i content? With my DirecTV with output set to 1080i I notice a weird problem where like every 20 seconds I'll see a horizontal line slowly scan from the bottom third of the screen to the top of the screen. I tried all other picture settings (i.e. Vivid, Movie etc) and played with different levels of MEMC and I still see the issue. It doesn't happen for all channels, but it happens all the time for network TV channels (FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC). The only thing that seems to fix it is if I change the DirectTV video output to a resolution like 720p or 480p, don't see any horizontal scan lines then. 

I also want to give a big thanks to Dave Harper for posting his calibration settings. They were very helpful in giving me a good starting point for my projector.


----------



## Mikenificent1

Ricoflashback said:


> Sounds like you think the Spectra and DarkUST are pretty much the same picture quality. This picture, however, scared me a little as it looked like it's way too dark with the Spectra screen. From your website:
> 
> View attachment 3311263


That’s how every UST screen would look compared to a matte white screen. They are all low gain screens, what do you think, they will magically be as bright? Common sense will tell you a .4 or .5 gain screen will be less bright (half as bright) than a 1.0 gain screen . UST screen will have better black levels and ambient light rejection at the expense of brightness among other things.


----------



## aerodynamics

Ricoflashback said:


> No UST ALR screen can handle sidelight, IMHO. It washes out the picture, period.


The fresnel screeens can reject light from the side. They're also higher in gain so black levels take a hit. And they're also more expensive due to the fact they are shipped assembled.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Mikenificent1 said:


> That’s how every UST screen would look compared to a matte white screen. They are all low gain screens, what do you think, they will magically be as bright? Common sense will tell you a .4 or .5 gain screen will be less bright (half as bright) than a 1.0 gain screen . UST screen will have better black levels and ambient light rejection at the expense of brightness among other things.


Thanks not for your pithy and condescending comments.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Daytime shot with lots of light including side light. More watchable then on the blank wall but there is no magic bullet with any UST ALR screen under these conditions, IMHO. Night shot should look enhanced and much better.

P.S. - As Brian mentioned before, love the marketing shots of various UST ALR companies of incredible, vivid pictures with light pouring in all around their screens.


----------



## Ricoflashback

A couple night shots. It’s more JVC’ish, if I dare say with the black floor. Personally, I’d take a brighter picture with more vivid colors and a sharper image. It may be the screen but certainly a personal taste that I’ll adjust with my next screen. But still - a great picture and I’m very happy with my T1 International.

Dusk


----------



## Ricoflashback

Exceptional black level on this pic -


----------



## DeniDoman

Hi AVSForum folks! I have just registered here and want to say thank you for all the information you have posted here. Nice to meet you all! 

I'm planing to order Formovie Theater tomorrow with a 120 inches "XY Screen - PET Crystal" screen. There is an option to buy Fengmi T1 (Chinese) with a 400 EUR cheaper price, but as I understand from the discussion, this extra money give me better picture quality and modern firmware.

But still, I have several concerns, maybe you can help me to clarify it:

1) I am planning to use NVIDIA Shield as a media input, so maybe embedded Android 11 is not very important to me? Also I don't have calibration devices or services in my city, so I will use it uncalibrated. What do you think, does it make sense to pay extra 400 EUR for international version? 

2) I'm a newbie with home cinemas, so I'm not understand is it possible to build a 5.1 sound without a separate receiver? Does the T1 support 5.1 over eARC HDMI? And if the answer is "Yes", then could you please advice affordable options for 5.1 sound? I want to limit audio budget with 1000 EUR.

3) Where to find settings guide? I see that the projector has MANY different options, settings and adjustments - maybe someone has a digital manual with description? Or maybe I missed a post with optimal settings? 

4) Could someone share a guide how to roughly calibrate it without a calibrator? Or default settings are fine and better to not touch it?

5) Someone tried to install Netflix? Maybe sideload an .apk? For me Netflix is a main reason to buy a separate mediabox.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DeniDoman said:


> Hi AVSForum folks! I have just registered here and want to say thank you for all the information you have posted here. Nice to meet you all!
> 
> I'm planing to order Formovie Theater tomorrow with a 120 inches "XY Screen - PET Crystal" screen. There is an option to buy Fengmi T1 (Chinese) with a 400 EUR cheaper price, but as I understand from the discussion, this extra money give me better picture quality and modern firmware.
> 
> But still, I have several concerns, maybe you can help me to clarify it:
> 
> 1) I am planning to use NVIDIA Shield as a media input, so maybe embedded Android 11 is not very important to me? Also I don't have calibration devices or services in my city, so I will use it uncalibrated. What do you think, does it make sense to pay extra 400 EUR for international version?
> 
> 2) I'm a newbie with home cinemas, so I'm not understand is it possible to build a 5.1 sound without a separate receiver? Does the T1 support 5.1 over eARC HDMI? And if the answer is "Yes", then could you please advice affordable options for 5.1 sound? I want to limit audio budget with 1000 EUR.
> 
> 3) Where to find settings guide? I see that the projector has MANY different options, settings and adjustments - maybe someone has a digital manual with description? Or maybe I missed a post with optimal settings?
> 
> 4) Could someone share a guide how to roughly calibrate it without a calibrator? Or default settings are fine and better to not touch it?
> 
> 5) Someone tried to install Netflix? Maybe sideload an .apk? For me Netflix is a main reason to buy a separate mediabox.


I can answer a couple questions. The T1 International version is very easy to use out of the box with the Android interface and the easy to navigate menus. And, for the CMS and calibration capabilities. (Although I use the "out of the box" settings with some tweaking and get a great picture.)

I've also switched back to "DolbyVision" (via my Nvidia Shield Pro) as I'm liking the better colors and standard settings. You can customize this via your Shield (No DV if you only want HDR/Ultra 4K)

I still use a Nvidia Shield Pro as my streamer. More powerful and I have all my apps in one place. Not worth side loading Netflix if you get the Chinese version, IMHO. 

I think the best you sound you can get is from the speakers themselves. Very crisp and clear dialog. Someone tried to add a sub to the equation but I'm not sure how that worked out. Otherwise, you'd need a receiver (AVR) to setup a 5.1 system and greater. There are some "theater in box" products out there but not optimal, IMHO. And I wouldn't get a soundbar, either, as I find the speakers are very good on my International T1. Hope this helps.


----------



## acting.absurd

Ricoflashback said:


> I can answer a couple questions. The T1 International version is very easy to use out of the box with the Android interface and the easy to navigate menus. And, for the CMS and calibration capabilities. (Although I use the "out of the box" settings with some tweaking and get a great picture.) I've also switched back to "DolbyVision" (via my Nvidia Shield Pro) as I'm liking the better colors and standard settings. You can customize this via your Shield (No DV if you only want HDR/Ultra 4K) I still use a Nvidia Shield Pro as my streamer. More powerful and I have all my apps in one place. Not worth side loading Netflix if you get the Chinese version, IMHO. I think the best you sound you can get is from the speakers themselves. Very crisp and clear dialog. Someone tried to add a sub to the equation but I'm not sure how that worked out. Otherwise, you'd need a receiver (AVR) to setup a 5.1 system and greater. There are some "theater in box" products out there but not optimal, IMHO. And I wouldn't get a soundbar, either, as I find the speakers are very good on my International T1. Hope this helps.


 Just a quick question from somebody who has absolutely no idea. Why would somebody want to disable DV when that's one of the key features of this projector?


----------



## Ricoflashback

acting.absurd said:


> Just a quick question from somebody who has absolutely no idea. Why would somebody want to disable DV when that's one of the key features of this projector?


DV can yield a pretty dim picture on many displays. Turning it off (keeping HDR/Ultra 4K - via your Nvidia Shield Pro or Roku streamer) can provide a better picture. It's subjective and up to the individual's preference. Lots of folks also use the HD Fury in the chain to fine tune the PQ.


----------



## m0j0

acting.absurd said:


> Just a quick question from somebody who has absolutely no idea. Why would somebody want to disable DV when that's one of the key features of this projector?


This is where practicality comes into play. In theory, you want DV, as it is supposed to give you an amazing, colorful, punchy, vibrant picture. In reality, the DV implementation might not live up to the expectation. So, from a practical standpoint, you have to consider other approaches to achieve what you are looking for. In the case of an HDFury device, you get the DV picture and you get the TV controls back to further adjust to your liking, so that is one approach. Another is to go straight HDR or straight SDR, etc.It just depends on what gives you the best picture.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Dave Harper said:


> Continued:


We're these new settings used without an HD Fury device, or if they were, how much would they impact a Global T1 that isn't using an HD Fury device in the " chain".
Thanks.....


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Have you tried them?


I gave them a shot last night and things are looking pretty good. It fixed the bad DV picture I was getting on my AppleTV at least. I'm using them in conjunction with the HDFurry settings now. I needed to do both to get something that looked good. 

Having my ATV set to DV was causing all of the UI and the videos to have major blow out for me out of the box when I had the EDID in my Diva set to copy TX0. Things looked normal with it set to HDR or SDR, only DV was having issues. The "use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" was the final fix. When I did only only the EDID and DV tab settings I was still getting a blown out picture. I never tried taking the Diva out of the chain so I'm not sure if it was doing something to cause the blow out. When I get some time I'm going to try a direct connection to see how that looks. 

One question for the other HDFurry users, with the "use custom HDR for LLDV" on does DV data processing still happen? The OSD always lists it as HDR now and I never get the DV screen bug. I'm curious what's going on under the hood an dhow it differs from a "real" DV signal.


----------



## John Sutton

Hi guys

In case anybody would have same problem as I did, here's a solution.
When I received the projector I found that the lens cover glass unglued completely.
And whatever I tried: double-sided adhesive tape, another foam tape, more and more tape, nothing helped.
Finally I ordered 3M 6008F double-sided tape and 3M Primer 94 adhesive booster. Removed old glue from projector's plastic under the glass and applied Primer 94.
Then I wait for 5 minutes and applied 6008F tape.
Don't forget to clean the glass and use a dust blower to clean the lens.
Now I applied Primer to the both sides of the glass, waited for 5 minutes and put the glass cover to its place pressed and hold for a while.
And now it sits in its place firmly and doesn't try to unglue anymore 

Last thing, when put the glass back to its place be sure the foamy frame under it to sit correctly, so it shouldn't block the light flow.


----------



## fancyclown

spocky12 said:


> Any chance a (future) owner of this device can make a system dump ? That would be really interesting.
> 
> The (riskless) steps would be :
> * On the device
> 
> enable developer mode
> enable adb debugging
> * On the computer
> 
> install Android studio
> connect to the device wirelessly (adb connect [device_ip])
> open "device explorer" panel, right click on the root folder and select "save on this computer"
> Not everything will be saved (many folders require root access), but that should be enough to learn more about this device (configuration, hidden apps...) and might help improve the T1/C2 experience as well.


Hopefully some owner of the global version takes up on this. If Fengmi won’t update the T1 for some reason or other maybe a full dump could work also? Or is the risk of ****ing up too great?


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> We're these new settings used without an HD Fury device, or if they were, how much would they impact a Global T1 that isn't using an HD Fury device in the " chain".
> Thanks.....


These were direct calibration from my SpectraCal VideoForge Pro Pattern Generator calibrated with a Klein K-10A colorimeter profiled to the Jeti 1511 Hi-Res spectrometer. Parameters set to a 1,000 nit HDR signal from the generator. No HDFURY in the chain. 

I did do testing after the calibration with and without the Vertex2 and both scenarios looked great. 



DesertDog said:


> I gave them a shot last night and things are looking pretty good. It fixed the bad DV picture I was getting on my AppleTV at least. I'm using them in conjunction with the HDFurry settings now. I needed to do both to get something that looked good.
> 
> Having my ATV set to DV was causing all of the UI and the videos to have major blow out for me out of the box when I had the EDID in my Diva set to copy TX0. Things looked normal with it set to HDR or SDR, only DV was having issues. The "use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" was the final fix. When I did only only the EDID and DV tab settings I was still getting a blown out picture. I never tried taking the Diva out of the chain so I'm not sure if it was doing something to cause the blow out. When I get some time I'm going to try a direct connection to see how that looks.
> 
> One question for the other HDFurry users, with the "use custom HDR for LLDV" on does DV data processing still happen? The OSD always lists it as HDR now and I never get the DV screen bug. I'm curious what's going on under the hood an dhow it differs from a "real" DV signal.


The "use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" is crucial to this LLDV tweak! That is what makes your display go into its HDR10 mode so it uses its ST2084 HDR curve and displays the image properly. If you don’t click it then most displays stay in SDR mode and the image will look flat, washed out and dull. It also allows you to customize your HDR parameters. Some displays do allow you to manually turn on HDR10 mode, like the JVC projectors, so it isn’t absolutely needed. 

If I recall though, I “think” this UST does go into HDR10 mode when it sees a raw LLDV signal without that setting checked. Can others test this? If this is the case then all clocking that option does is it injects the custom settings you may have put into the HDR/AVI tab’s boxes.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Dave Harper
Thanks for replying regarding the settings you posted. If one wanted to maximize brightness what settings that you posted pictures of, would you change? I realize picture quality, to some extent, would take a hit, however would be interesting to try a few different options. 
Thanks


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> The "use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" is crucial to this LLDV tweak! That is what makes your display go into its HDR10 mode so it uses its ST2084 HDR curve and displays the image properly. If you don’t click it then most displays stay in SDR mode and the image will look flat, washed out and dull. It also allows you to customize your HDR parameters. Some displays do allow you to manually turn on HDR10 mode, like the JVC projectors, so it isn’t absolutely needed.
> 
> If I recall though, I “think” this UST does go into HDR10 mode when it sees a raw LLDV signal without that setting checked. Can others test this? If this is the case then all clocking that option does is it injects the custom settings you may have put into the HDR/AVI tab’s boxes.


Thanks for the info. I know that mine is going into HDR10 mode when I'm giving it an LLDV signal. With that I'm assuming that the signal is being processed as HDR10 and not lldv by the unit. If that assumption is correct then what I was wondering is if anything is "lost" with doing so.


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> Dave Harper
> Thanks for replying regarding the settings you posted. If one wanted to maximize brightness what settings that you posted pictures of, would you change? I realize picture quality, to some extent, would take a hit, however would be interesting to try a few different options.
> Thanks


I would say switching from “Viewing” to “Office” laser brightness modes would be a quick way Toni crease brightness. 



DesertDog said:


> Thanks for the info. I know that mine is going into HDR10 mode when I'm giving it an LLDV signal. With that I'm assuming that the signal is being processed as HDR10 and not lldv by the unit. If that assumption is correct then what I was wondering is if anything is "lost" with doing so.


Yes. As I said you lose any custom settings in the HDR/AVI tab of the HDFURY. Those may or may not help with image quality, depending on what you input and the display’s capabilities are.


----------



## rooterha

Mine came in today - looks good, tossed Dave's settings on and going to run through and test later. Need to also dial in the position and focus a little better but seems comparable to my Chinese T1


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Dave Harper 
Again thanks for responding. I noticed your settings are with User HDR10. I personally find HDR to dim, using an A4KTV, so I prefer SDR, with HDMI OUTPUT at YCbCr with Chroma at 4:4:4, and match Frame Rate. 
Would your settings still apply in that scenario?
I also use a 1.1 gain White screen. I realize that also may negatively impact the image, since you are using a .6 gain ( I believe) ALR screen.


----------



## DunMunro

Mondoprojos tests the Fengmi Formovie Theater (*Update of July 28, 2022) :*









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## rooterha

I haven't really measured anything but with Dave's settings it DEFINITELY looks better than the regular T1 to me. Like very obviously and immediately better, especially dark scenes. Hopefully whatever software changes they made come to the regular T1 as well.


----------



## 3sprit

DunMunro said:


> Mondoprojos tests the Fengmi Formovie Theater:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


It's a test from a month ago


----------



## DunMunro

3sprit said:


> It's a test from a month ago


Read the section titled:
*Update of July 28, 2022:*


----------



## 3sprit

rooterha said:


> Hopefully whatever software changes they made come to the regular T1 as well.


Impossible: the operating system is different.
Android vs. FengOS


----------



## 3sprit

The price has changed


----------



## rooterha

3sprit said:


> Impossible: the operating system is different.
> Android vs. FengOS


It's not impossible... FengOS is Android based. I'm sure the Fengmi Focus Tool and such are the same APKs.

Either way the differences aren't Android OS differences, they are features Fengmi added so can certainly be ported over.

Not trying to be rude, but no need to speak up if you don't know what you're talking about.

Hell, the T1 International has the same EDID issues that the T1 Chinese version does so clearly they are sharing a large percentage of the same code behind the scenes.


----------



## 3sprit

Controls are available in Android not in FengOS.
To use Android they pay more and also for that the price is higher.


----------



## 3sprit

Formovie Fengmi T1


What about SDR contrast? SDR at 50 brightness and 50 contrast. But depends on the movie. Some movies are known to have elevated black level such as Ender's Game. It's pretty obvious when you look at the credit scene where you can see elevated black levels. Just set the brightness to 47-48 will...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## rooterha

3sprit said:


> Controls are available in Android not in FengOS.
> To use Android they pay more and also for that the price is higher.


I'm not talking about just the color calibration. It's more than that - likely some combo of Advanced Options that somebody pointed out in the earlier thread.

Seems like it's mostly tied to "Adaptive Luma Control" and "Local Contrast Control"


----------



## zoomx2

It is all about the software and how much they are willing to change in T1. From the email from the support team, they are not going to offer the same features as the global version.


----------



## RickMes

Hello everyone.

It's been around 10 years since I had a home theater and I am now thinking on purchasing the Formovie Theater so I have been reading its related AVS forums.
Now, for the time being I will set it up on my living room and use my old Beamax 80" white matte screen while I prepare to buy a more suitable one (I think gain is 1.0, but can't really remember).
There's some considerate day light but my shutters will keep most of it out so that's not really an issue for me. However, the projector will replace my TV (no space for both) and there are a few questions that I couldn't (yet) find some answers. Can someone please help me out? 
So:
1 - Are this projector's optics sealed or well protected against dust? I had problems before with LCD projectors that ended up accumulating dust blobs that were either visible or ended up causing color aberrations on the sides of the projection so I am particularly afraid of this issue. If so, how to best avoid it?
2 - What's the average power consumption of this projector compared to a pretty basic 43" LCD TV?
3 - Since I am replacing my TV, what do you think will be a reasonable hour/day usage?
4 - Could an 80" screen viewed from about 100" be too big, specially for a 4 year old who will have to watch his cartoons on this setup?
5 - My 80" screen is old and not perfecly flat as the sides got a little wavy. I know image won't be perfect, but will it affect the projectors automatic adjustment?

This is my first post in AVSForum and I appreciate whatever small help anyone can give me or point me to a responde on the forums.

Thank you in advance.


(I am also posting this on the "Formovie Fengmi T1" forum. Hope it's not against the rules!)


----------



## hywong117

Did you guys enable the 11 point white balance correction?


----------



## rooterha

Has anyone had issues with the remote after waking from sleep?

I've had 2 times where after waking from sleep the remote just doesn't work and I have to unplug and plug it back in. It's clearly not locked up because I can see animations happening on the screen, it just won't respond.

In every other way the experience is muuuuuuch nicer than FengOS

I did also encounter the EDID issue last night, so that's annoying. Hope they finally find a way to fix it.


----------



## DesertDog

RickMes said:


> 4 - Could an 80" screen viewed from about 100" be too big, specially for a 4 year old who will have to watch his cartoons on this setup?


I'm only going to address #4 for now. That's really a personal call. To me the answer is no. 100" is roughly my viewing distance too. I've had an 85" TV for 4 years at it and I just moved to a 120" screen. So to me 80" isn't too big.  80" puts you at about 40 degrees which is right in spec. 



rooterha said:


> Has anyone had issues with the remote after waking from sleep?
> 
> I've had 2 times where after waking from sleep the remote just doesn't work and I have to unplug and plug it back in. It's clearly not locked up because I can see animations happening on the screen, it just won't respond.
> 
> In every other way the experience is muuuuuuch nicer than FengOS
> 
> I did also encounter the EDID issue last night, so that's annoying. Hope they finally find a way to fix it.


I haven't had it happen where I had to unplug. On boot I have had it unresponsive for a short time and then it starts working. It has the feel like the the remote is asleep and the first button press wakes it up. 

By EDID issue do you mean the handshake one? If so changing it from auto to 2.1 did the trick for me. I haven't had it happen again since I changed that setting per @Dave Harper's recommendation.


----------



## rooterha

DesertDog said:


> I'm only going to address #4 for now. That's really a personal call. To me the answer is no. 100" is roughly my viewing distance too. I've had an 85" TV for 4 years at it and I just moved to a 120" screen. So to me 80" isn't too big.  80" puts you at about 40 degrees which is right in spec.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't had it happen where I had to unplug. On boot I have had it unresponsive for a short time and then it starts working. It has the feel like the the remote is asleep and the first button press wakes it up.
> 
> By EDID issue do you mean the handshake one? If so changing it from auto to 2.1 did the trick for me. I haven't had it happen again since I changed that setting per @Dave Harper's recommendation.


Yeah it happened when I had it on 2.1 switching between the PS5 and AppleTV 4k.


----------



## RickMes

DesertDog said:


> I'm only going to address #4 for now. That's really a personal call. To me the answer is no. 100" is roughly my viewing distance too. I've had an 85" TV for 4 years at it and I just moved to a 120" screen. So to me 80" isn't too big.  80" puts you at about 40 degrees which is right in spec.


Thanks for your feedback. I also think it will be Ok.
I am now questioning if I should purchase such a beast for a non dedicated theater room and no decent projection screen (for now). It's actually our living room with a decent stereo system and for the time being it will have to do. I just miss a projection system so much!


----------



## indieke2

Ricoflashback said:


> So, if I had my druthers, I'd have a fully dedicated theater room with a regular throw PJ and the largest Cinemascope screen I could fit in with masking OR the madVR Envy Pro for all processing. That would be my ideal setup.
> 
> Fast forward to today and our downsizing (move to Arizona) and no dedicated theater room. I'm absolutely thrilled that I can still have that "big screen" experience in a multipurpose or living room with a UST Projector that has the black floor, colors and sharpness of the International T1. And being able to buy through a U.S.A. Distributor (Brian) is the icing on the cake for that "worry-free purchase."
> 
> Lastly - it seems to me like there are more advancements with UST Projectors compared to any other products out there today. Certainly more offerings with China pushing the envelope with ALPD technology. And yes - - I, too, am looking forward to continued improvements with UST PJ's. I believe this will be the fastest growth sector in the projector market.


Yes, but these are still DLP projector, with a small chip. And I only have the XIAOMI C 2, which is rather fine, and easier to use, but it is a shame the rainbows I see on certain scenes that are distracting. I am not sure that is not the case with the T 1.


----------



## m0j0

indieke2 said:


> Yes, but these are still DLP projector, with a small chip. And I only have the XIAOMI C 2, which is rather fine, and easier to use, but it is a shame the rainbows I see on certain scenes that are distracting. I am not sure that is not the case with the T 1.


I've had my T1 for several months and have yet to see any rainbows.


----------



## rooterha

m0j0 said:


> I've had my T1 for several months and have yet to see any rainbows.


Same never seen them on either unit. On the other hand I saw them on the L9G at least 1-2x per viewing session


----------



## indieke2

rooterha said:


> Same never seen them on either unit. On the other hand I saw them on the L9G at least 1-2x per viewing session


Yes, but some not see them on the C 2 either, I must be sensitive to it. Mostly in dark, not so well lit scenes, with white lighting beyond. In movies that are set in dark environment, not pleasant.


----------



## m0j0

indieke2 said:


> Yes, but some not see them on the C 2 either, I must be sensitive to it. Mostly in dark, not so well lit scenes, with white lighting beyond. In movies that are set in dark environment, not pleasant.


I used to see them back when I had an Optoma UHD60 DLP projector, so I know I can see rainbows on some DLP's, but not the T1 apparently.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

indieke2 said:


> Yes, but these are still DLP projector, with a small chip. And I only have the XIAOMI C 2, which is rather fine, and easier to use, but it is a shame the rainbows I see on certain scenes that are distracting. I am not sure that is not the case with the T 1.


I too see just about zero Rainbows with the T1 Global ( very , very occasionally in very difficult scenes I can sense a very slight Rainbow but it's a rare occurrence, and I definitely am very sensitive to that issue with most DLP projectors). Recently had a BOWMAKER POLARIS, which also has triple lasers and I would occasionally see them, more than with the T1, but again still very infrequently compared to all other DLP based projectors.


----------



## ajamils

Haven't read all pages so excuse the question buyt has anyone comared this PJ to Hisense PX1-Pro?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ajamils said:


> Haven't read all pages so excuse the question buyt has anyone comared this PJ to Hisense PX1-Pro?


Check with Brian at projectorscreen.com. I believe the PX1-Pro has a sharper picture as well as the AWOL. By how much - - I'm not sure. But there isn't any UST in its price range with the black floor like the T1. I like the black level of my T1 International but to me, it doesn't have the "pop" of the colors I had with my lower priced, regular throw (albeit shorter throw than most regular throw projectors) BenQ TK700STi. But that was with a different screen (100" electronic, 1.1 gain, SilverTicket white matte, tab-tensioned screen) in a very dark room. I also had my Denon x6700 AVR sharpening the video which made a huge difference with cable TV.

Side note - for now, the International T1 is the best that I can do in an apartment. I might switch back to a regular throw PJ (even in a living room) when we buy a house. For that environment, I'll look at the Epson 12000 but I wish BenQ upped their game with a like projector in that price range. I would think the Epson 12000 would have brighter colors and a lower black floor (or the same?) as the International T1 but throughout my projector journey, I find the sharpness (acuity) of the BenQ (DLP) and the pop of their colors as my preferred choice. 

Maybe stepping up in price to the Sony Sony VPL-XW6000ES will provide the color pop and black levels I'm searching for. Funny - - I guess I'm not as huge a black level fan as other folks. My 48" Sony OLED has the best of both worlds - - incredible black floor with lots of color pop. But at 48" - - it's strictly a bedroom TV. Good luck with your projector journey.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

I have no issues with the Color Pop, of the International T1 versus my other projector (EPSON 5050) that also is in the same room.
































IT took me awhile to " dial" it in, but with my current settings and with using a non ALR screen ( 1.1 gain Floor Rising, Vividstorm) in a moderately controlled environment I still have excellent pop, contrast with decent Black Levels. Of course at night the T1 really shows what it can do.
I personally find that to much is being made about using an ALR screen with a UST. Yes I am sure if your primary use is during the daytime with limited light control that it might be the best way to go, however with the above mentioned 1.1 gain White screen I have no issues with daytime viewing. Your giving up almost half the projectors light output by using a .6 gain screen. As they say YMMV....
Here's a few daytime pics on the 1.1 screen.


----------



## Ricoflashback

MRJAZZZ said:


> I have no issues with the Color Pop, of the International T1 versus my other projector (EPSON 5050) that also is in the same room.
> View attachment 3314086
> 
> View attachment 3314084
> 
> View attachment 3314083
> 
> View attachment 3314085
> 
> IT took me awhile to " dial" it in, but with my current settings and with using a non ALR screen ( 1.1 gain Floor Rising, Vividstorm) in a moderately controlled environment I still have excellent pop, contrast with decent Black Levels. Of course at night the T1 really shows what it can do.
> I personally find that to much is being made about using an ALR screen with a UST. Yes I am sure if your primary use is during the daytime with limited light control that it might be the best way to go, however with the above mentioned 1.1 gain White screen I have no issues with daytime viewing. Your giving up almost half the projectors light output by using a .6 gain screen. As they say YMMV....
> Here's a few daytime pics on the 1.1 screen.


Nice pics. I have a temporary, cheapie ALR .6 screen so I'm sure that affects the picture greatly. At night, though, everything looks good. Still - - the vibrancy and the colors are a little different to me with the lower black floor. I'll never have an ALR screen again, though. Glad I didn't pay much for this one.


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice pics. I have a temporary, cheapie ALR .6 screen so I'm sure that affects the picture greatly. At night, though, everything looks good. Still - - the vibrancy and the colors are a little different to me with the lower black floor. I'll never have an ALR screen again, though. Glad I didn't pay much for this one.


The lower gain and grey material might have kill the color pop you are looking for. On my matte unity gain screen, the color pop and color vibrancy are very good.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> The lower gain and grey material might have kill the color pop you are looking for. On my matte unity gain screen, the color pop and color vibrancy are very good.


Yes - I think it has more to do with the ALR properties and .6 gain plus the cheapness of the Wemax screen to begin with. I’m sure a pet crystal and a lot of other screens would look better. But daytime viewing with a projector and a room with ambient light do not mix well, period.

I’ll probably go back to my dual large TV with an electronic screen (tab tensioned) over it (if at all possible) with a regular throw projector in our new house. Maybe increase the budget for a Sony PJ with the largest CinemaScope screen and side masking. Still - I think the International T1 is a great buy and it’s prevented severe “big screen” withdrawal symptoms. At night, even with my previous setup, I might watch news and some sports on my TV. But as the years went on, I found sports more enjoyable (especially hockey) with a projector. And of course - movies and any series streamed requires that big screen experience.


----------



## Fox&304

Got mine a few days ago. Setup with a BenQ ALSR01 0.6 UST screen. It's gorgeous, and I'm thoroughly impressed. A few points of interest : 

Internal PLEX app managed to play my biggest rips, with DTS-HDMA natively, without stutter, something my LG G1 couldn't do because of DTS licence.
I've had to re-associate the controller once already. It suddenly stoped working, fortunately the Google TV App works as a remote, so I managed to unpair/repair it to work again.
There is a quite annoying "coil sound" depending on the speed of the ventilation
Focus is hard to get right, I'm not on the definitive setup yet, so I'll report back on this later.


----------



## MrGrimble

rjyap said:


> The lower gain and grey material might have kill the color pop you are looking for. On my matte unity gain screen, the color pop and color vibrancy are very good.


So to sum it up - ALR screens mostly help in daylight scenarios. But at night, with all the lights turned off, a Matt White 1.0 gain screen can still put out a good picture for the T1? 

I'm asking because I have such a screen and it will help me to know that I can keep it for a while and have a decent experience (At night) until I'll be able to buy a proper UST screen.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

MrGrimble said:


> So to sum it up - ALR screens mostly help in daylight scenarios. But at night, with all the lights turned off, a Matt White 1.0 gain screen can still put out a good picture for the T1?
> 
> I'm asking because I have such a screen and it will help me to know that I can keep it for a while and have a decent experience (At night) until I'll be able to buy a proper UST screen.
> 
> See my above post #692. YOU will have an excellent picture with your screen, even during the day ( presuming you have some moderate light control capability), however at night it will look (obviously) much better.


----------



## rjyap

MrGrimble said:


> So to sum it up - ALR screens mostly help in daylight scenarios. But at night, with all the lights turned off, a Matt White 1.0 gain screen can still put out a good picture for the T1?
> 
> I'm asking because I have such a screen and it will help me to know that I can keep it for a while and have a decent experience (At night) until I'll be able to buy a proper UST screen.


Yes. Been using the matte screen and put out a fantastic picture for T1.


----------



## MrGrimble

rjyap said:


> Yes. Been using the matte screen and put out a fantastic picture for T1.


Thanks for the reassurance. It would really help me digest the T1 cost without the immediate need of another screen.


----------



## MrGrimble

MRJAZZZ said:


> See my above post #692. YOU will have an excellent picture with your screen, even during the day ( presuming you have some moderate light control capability), however at night it will look (obviously) much better.


Yeah, it looks good with some ambient light.
It would be great if you could share some photos of the screen at night.
How would you compare it to the 5050? My dream was to have the Epsons motorized memory lens, but if pq is better on the T1 then I'll have to forsake my dream and go for the best for the buck projector.


----------



## Ricoflashback

MrGrimble said:


> Yeah, it looks good with some ambient light.
> It would be great if you could share some photos of the screen at night.
> How would you compare it to the 5050? My dream was to have the Epsons motorized memory lens, but if pq is better on the T1 then I'll have to forsake my dream and go for the best for the buck projector.


Never forsake your dreams - - if you don't have to. If you have the room for a regular throw projector - - the Epson 5050 is a fine projector and often referred to as the "cost effective" alternative to a JVC PJ. I'd prefer a regular throw projector if I had the space like I did in my previous HT setup. Especially if you have the room for a Cinemascope screen. That's where the lens memory really shines. And, if you can control the light, you have many more screen options compared to a UST projector. Black level wise - - the International and previous T1 should be on par with the Epson 5050.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> Never forsake your dreams - - if you don't have to. If you have the room for a regular throw projector - - the Epson 5050 is a fine projector and often referred to as the "cost effective" alternative to a JVC PJ. I'd prefer a regular throw projector if I had the space like I did in my previous HT setup. Especially if you have the room for a Cinemascope screen. That's where the lens memory really shines. And, if you can control the light, you have many more screen options compared to a UST projector. Black level wise - - the International and previous T1 should be on par with the Epson 5050.


So I’m fine with black levels on 5050, but I’m interested in what you think the 5050 does better than the T1 and what the T1 does better than the 5050. 

I have a 5040 and am actually quite happy with how it looks on new 4k material. Blacks levels are sufficient. My issue is with HDR in general and sharpness of non 4k material. 

If the T1 black levels are on par with 5050 yet has better overall sharpness, colors, HDR performance than the T1 is clear winner. It would also allow me to run a 135” screen in my small room.


----------



## Dr. Feelgood

Ok, I had to buy one today. I‘m kind on a budge, can anyone recommend a decent 120“ screen in the EU. I will only watch at night with some background lights on. No screen for sunlight needed. Really hope if someone could help me out.


----------



## MrGrimble

Ricoflashback said:


> Never forsake your dreams - - if you don't have to. If you have the room for a regular throw projector - - the Epson 5050 is a fine projector and often referred to as the "cost effective" alternative to a JVC PJ. I'd prefer a regular throw projector if I had the space like I did in my previous HT setup. Especially if you have the room for a Cinemascope screen. That's where the lens memory really shines. And, if you can control the light, you have many more screen options compared to a UST projector. Black level wise - - the International and previous T1 should be on par with the Epson 5050.


I really wish it was a clear-cut decision between the two. 
I'm fairly limited with the space that I have. With the 5050 I can project to my current 92” screen. With the T1 I can go up to 100”, but that means that I'll need to buy a new 100" screen. 

I won't have a huge scope with either of them, so maybe I'll take the T1 for it's sharpness and HDR performance and save the Epson for a later time, when I'll have room for a bigger throw. 

The T1 is also cheaper then the 5050. For the price of the 5050 I can buy a T1 and add a 100" screen.


----------



## rjyap

MrGrimble said:


> I really wish it was a clear-cut decision between the two.
> I'm fairly limited with the space that I have. With the 5050 I can project to my current 92” screen. With the T1 I can go up to 100”, but that means that I'll need to buy a new 100" screen.
> 
> I won't have a huge scope with either of them, so maybe I'll take the T1 for it's sharpness and HDR performance and save the Epson for a later time, when I'll have room for a bigger throw.
> 
> The T1 is also cheaper then the 5050. For the price of the 5050 I can buy a T1 and add a 100" screen.


if size is the main consideration then T1 is a no brainer.


----------



## MrGrimble

rjyap said:


> if size is the main consideration then T1 is a no brainer.


Size matters 😁


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> if size is the main consideration then T1 is a no brainer.


I'll add that if you do not have a CinemaScope screen, then any projector with "lens memory" (like the Epson 5050) really isn't needed, IMHO. If you are short on space AND you want a bigger 16 x 9 screen AND can't fit that into your room with a regular throw PJ - - then a UST projector makes a lot of sense.

Lastly - regarding sharpness. My single chip BenQ was a little sharper than my current International T1 but that was also with my Denon X6700 AVR and its video upscaling (i/p scaler on) of cable material (Xfinity set to 1080P) to 4K with a projector. I believe I also had the sharpness option on, as well. I'm a stickler for a razor sharp picture where I can see CNN's Wolf Blitzer's teeny, gray beard hairs.


----------



## MrGrimble

Ricoflashback said:


> I'll add that if you do not have a CinemaScope screen, then any projector with "lens memory" (like the Epson 5050) really isn't needed, IMHO. If you are short on space AND you want a bigger 16 x 9 screen AND can't fit that into your room with a regular throw PJ - - then a UST projector makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Lastly - regarding sharpness. My single chip BenQ was a little sharper than my current International T1 but that was also with my Denon X6700 AVR and its video upscaling (i/p scaler on) of cable material (Xfinity set to 1080P) to 4K with a projector. I believe I also had the sharpness option on, as well. I'm a stickler for a razor sharp picture where I can see CNN's Wolf Blitzer's teeny, gray beard hairs.


The projector will be mainly used for movies, as I have an OLED tv for regular usage. 
That also means the if I'll indeed upgrade my screen from 92" to 100", it will still have to be a 16x9 pulldown/up screen and not a fixed one. 

I think i'll let the Epson dream go for now and wait for the 5060 version. 

On CNN, I'm on the side of Shimon Prokupecz, as he has my name


----------



## tnaik4

MrGrimble said:


> So to sum it up - ALR screens mostly help in daylight scenarios. But at night, with all the lights turned off, a Matt White 1.0 gain screen can still put out a good picture for the T1?
> 
> I'm asking because I have such a screen and it will help me to know that I can keep it for a while and have a decent experience (At night) until I'll be able to buy a proper UST screen.


If u can control reflections from walls etc than a white 1.0 screen will be perfect if not best for the T1, here is mine in my dedicated room on white 1.1 gain screen.


----------



## MrGrimble

tnaik4 said:


> If u can control reflections from walls etc than a white 1.0 screen will be perfect if not best for the T1, here is mine in my dedicated room on white 1.1 gain screen.


If you mean paint my walls in black, then no


----------



## tnaik4

MrGrimble said:


> If you mean paint my walls in black, then no


Its mostly the ceiling, not the sides, the way UST works is it ll bounce the light of the screen from under it, if ur screen isnt a clr the light will bounce off the screen onto the ceiling which than will hurt the projected image, in that case i believe a CLR screen will still be better cause it ll bounce the light straight at the viewer instead of the cieling. Doesnt mean that white screen is bad at night viewing with white walls though, just not optimal.


----------



## MrGrimble

tnaik4 said:


> Its mostly the ceiling, not the sides, the way UST works is it ll bounce the light of the screen from under it, if ur screen isnt a clr the light will bounce off the screen onto the ceiling which than will hurt the projected image, in that case i believe a CLR screen will still be better cause it ll bounce the light straight at the viewer instead of the cieling. Doesnt mean that white screen is bad at night viewing with white walls though, just not optimal.


I have 4 atmos speakers in the cieling but I guess I can add a black fabric there.


----------



## Sonny Red

A new review of the Formovie Theater :


----------



## Joered101

@dave


Dave Harper said:


> Continued:


thanks so much for sharing! Any chance you could share calibrated settings if not using a HD fury? Just the formovie on it’s own? For HDR?I find the cyans and blues completely off and can’t get it right in HCFR


----------



## Fox&304

Anybody having issues with the remote/Wifi quite often ? 
I've had the Theater for a few days only, and it has happened a few times already. It seems the device just switches off Wifi & Bluetooth when on rest mode, and can't turn them back on when getting out of sleep. Which means the remote doesn't work, nor the wifi remotes like the Google TV App or an Harmony remote. 
I have to remove the outlet and do a power cycle to get them back to work. Pretty annoying ...


----------



## rooterha

Fox&304 said:


> Anybody having issues with the remote/Wifi quite often ?
> I've had the Theater for a few days only, and it has happened a few times already. It seems the device just switches off Wifi & Bluetooth when on rest mode, and can't turn them back on when getting out of sleep. Which means the remote doesn't work, nor the wifi remotes like the Google TV App or an Harmony remote.
> I have to remove the outlet and do a power cycle to get them back to work. Pretty annoying ...


Yes - happened to me a few times.


----------



## steevo123

Sonny Red said:


> A new review of the Formovie Theater :


not really a review


----------



## Dave Harper

MRJAZZZ said:


> Dave Harper
> Again thanks for responding. I noticed your settings are with User HDR10. I personally find HDR to dim, using an A4KTV, so I prefer SDR, with HDMI OUTPUT at YCbCr with Chroma at 4:4:4, and match Frame Rate.
> Would your settings still apply in that scenario?
> I also use a 1.1 gain White screen. I realize that also may negatively impact the image, since you are using a .6 gain ( I believe) ALR screen.


My settings are with an HDFury and a Z9X with VS10 DV Engine so not sure how they’d cross over to what you have or don’t have. 



rooterha said:


> I haven't really measured anything but with Dave's settings it DEFINITELY looks better than the regular T1 to me. Like very obviously and immediately better, especially dark scenes. Hopefully whatever software changes they made come to the regular T1 as well.


Are you combining it with an HDFury?



Joered101 said:


> @dave
> 
> 
> thanks so much for sharing! Any chance you could share calibrated settings if not using a HD fury? Just the formovie on it’s own? For HDR?I find the cyans and blues completely off and can’t get it right in HCFR


We may have something after the UST Laser TV Showdown. It’s up to Brian what he wants to share, but if he does it’ll be on his website/blog.


----------



## Fox&304

rooterha said:


> Yes - happened to me a few times.


Did you find a way to fix this ? It's pretty annoying ...


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> We may have something after the UST Laser TV Showdown. It’s up to Brian what he wants to share, but if he does it’ll be on his website/blog.


We are planning on photo/video of each unit with settings published in our write up after the event


----------



## Ricoflashback

tnaik4 said:


> Its mostly the ceiling, not the sides, the way UST works is it ll bounce the light of the screen from under it, if ur screen isnt a clr the light will bounce off the screen onto the ceiling which than will hurt the projected image, in that case i believe a CLR screen will still be better cause it ll bounce the light straight at the viewer instead of the cieling. Doesnt mean that white screen is bad at night viewing with white walls though, just not optimal.


Won't a CLR screen still have the "shadow" effect above the thin bezel (all sides) as well? And, at a .6 gain, still some brightness lost. I'm wondering if a larger frame that is wrapped in a black velvet type fabric would get rid of the shadow.

By the way - - my "El Cheapo" WEMAX 100" special at $399 looks very good at night. It would be interesting if some manufacturer could develop a UST equivalent to the Seymour Ambient Visionaire Light Rejecting Screen for long throw projectors that is more white like in color but still with ALR properties with a 1.2 or 1.3 gain.


----------



## DesertDog

Finally got mine set-up. That was more of a pain than I expected. Not due to the projector but I had to build the center section of my entertainment center 3 times due to practicality issues with my initial design. The picture is looking really good from the get go using an HDFurry and @Dave Harper's settings for both. I watched last week's movie episode of The Orville last night and it looked amazing for the space shots. The graphics really popped when they had the nebulas and different stuff of screen. There was a couple scenes that I thought looked washed out but on the next cut everything was dark again. So I'm not sure if it's the source video or if I need to tone down a setting yet. I'm going to check those scenes on my TV to compare. 

One other thing I need to play with is my Apple TV settings. For some reason the UI is very dark when on the spring board or in Infuse's UI. Everything looks great when playing a video so I'm not super worried about it. It's more of a nice to fix type of thing.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Screen shadow during the day with the projector off. Which makes me wonder, with a small, reflective bezel, this is bound to happen with all UST PJ's. Wouldn't a velvet, black wrapped frame (even a larger bezel) work better to minimize the reflection? So what is there is overscan - - the material should negate that. Or am I missing something?


----------



## m0j0

DesertDog said:


> Finally got mine set-up. That was more of a pain than I expected. Not due to the projector but I had to build the center section of my entertainment center 3 times due to practicality issues with my initial design. The picture is looking really good from the get go using an HDFurry and @Dave Harper's settings for both. I watched last week's movie episode of The Orville last night and it looked amazing for the space shots. The graphics really popped when they had the nebulas and different stuff of screen. There was a couple scenes that I thought looked washed out but on the next cut everything was dark again. So I'm not sure if it's the source video or if I need to tone down a setting yet. I'm going to check those scenes on my TV to compare.
> 
> One other thing I need to play with is my Apple TV settings. For some reason the UI is very dark when on the spring board or in Infuse's UI. Everything looks great when playing a video so I'm not super worried about it. It's more of a nice to fix type of thing.


Glad it's working out well for you @DesertDog!


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> Screen shadow during the day with the projector off. Which makes me wonder, with a small, reflective bezel, this is bound to happen with all UST PJ's. Wouldn't a velvet, black wrapped frame (even a larger bezel) work better to minimize the reflection? So what is there is overscan - - the material should negate that. Or am I missing something?
> 
> View attachment 3315982


Though I never got around to it, I was thinking of building some black velvet wrapped foam insulation boards cut down to about 2 or 3 inches and just place them around the frame. The reason I wanted them about 2 or 3 inches is I put my remote next to the frame as a test and found it came out just far enough to block that gray border, but wasn't terribly intrusive, so thought it could work out pretty well, and the black velvet would cancel any light that hits them.

Edit: Just to clarify, I mean the remote on its side, lined up right next to the screen. So in this manner, it is jutting out about a 1/2 to an inch at most from the screen frame, but enough so that it is blocking that gray light border coming from the projector.


----------



## Ricoflashback

m0j0 said:


> Though I never got around to it, I was thinking of building some black velvet wrapped foam insulation boards cut down to about 2 or 3 inches and just place them around the frame. The reason I wanted them about 2 or 3 inches is I put my remote next to the frame as a test and found it came out just far enough to block that gray border, but wasn't terribly intrusive, so thought it could work out pretty well, and the black velvet would cancel any light that hits them.
> 
> Edit: Just to clarify, I mean the remote on its side, lined up right next to the screen. So in this manner, it is jutting out about a 1/2 to an inch at most from the screen frame, but enough so that it is blocking that gray light border coming from the projector.


How about baseboard siding, molding or lap trim? Build a picture frame around the screen and angle it off correctly. Getting the fabric on would be the toughest part. I'm thinking of getting a larger frame size or even the SilverTicket S7 series in a matte gray with the velvet wrapped, aluminum frame. As I found out - - it's not just the projector that causes the shadow. It's the frame itself.


----------



## m0j0

Ricoflashback said:


> How about baseboard siding, molding or lap trim? Build a picture frame around the screen and angle it off correctly. Getting the fabric on would be the toughest part. I'm thinking of getting a larger frame size or even the SilverTicket S7 series in a matte gray with the velvet wrapped, aluminum frame. As I found out - - it's not just the projector that causes the shadow. It's the frame itself.


I'm sure there's a few ways to skin the cat. I was just trying to keep it thin and as unobtrusive as possible.I was thinking that it could be just three velvet wrapped foam boards that would connect with some zip ties at each corner, one going across the top and the other two hanging down with the zip ties on each side. That would make it easy to take off during the day, then just throw it on at night when it's dark.


----------



## DesertDog

m0j0 said:


> I'm sure there's a few ways to skin the cat. I was just trying to keep it thin and as unobtrusive as possible.I was thinking that it could be just three velvet wrapped foam boards that would connect with some zip ties at each corner, one going across the top and the other two hanging down with the zip ties on each side. That would make it easy to take off during the day, then just throw it on at night when it's dark.


This gave me an idea of something to try on mine. I can do a fix boarder since I'm using a motorized screen but I have an idea to try. I've also been toying with the idea of hanging black velvet across the entire front wall. I'd love to do the ceiling too but that might be difficult here. Maybe I can fake a ceiling by getting a big sheet of it and hanging it from my heights.


----------



## Brajesh

Ricoflashback said:


> Found it. EDID settings.


Received my replacement unit. How again does one navigate to the HDMI 2.0 toggle setting? This part is (obviously) far from intuitive. Thanks.


----------



## Diarf22

Brajesh said:


> Received my replacement unit. How again does one navigate to the HDMI 2.0 toggle setting? This part is (obviously) far from intuitive. Thanks.


You'll find the EDID settings in the Inputs menu iirc. I've had to navigate to it a couple times myself when the projector trips up displaying HDR.

It's definitely a tucked away setting that's for sure.


----------



## JereyWolf

DesertDog said:


> This gave me an idea of something to try on mine. I can do a fix boarder since I'm using a motorized screen but I have an idea to try. I've also been toying with the idea of hanging black velvet across the entire front wall. I'd love to do the ceiling too but that might be difficult here. Maybe I can fake a ceiling by getting a big sheet of it and hanging it from my heights.


I put velvet on the wall behind my screen and 2 feet on each of the side walls. It has an awesome effect of making the image appear to float on the wall rather than seeing the screen.... but it also makes the black floor much more noticeable when right next to any letterbox is black velvet. I did the whole wall for about $35 with remnant rolls and furniture tacks.


----------



## rjyap

JereyWolf said:


> I put velvet on the wall behind my screen and 2 feet on each of the side walls. It has an awesome effect of making the image appear to float on the wall rather than seeing the screen.... but it also makes the black floor much more noticeable when right next to any letterbox is black velvet. I did the whole wall for about $35 with remnant rolls and furniture tracks.
> 
> View attachment 3316126


I would suggest to cover your ceiling at least 6 feet out from the front wall. That would be the best place to cut out light reflection.


----------



## DesertDog

JereyWolf said:


> I put velvet on the wall behind my screen and 2 feet on each of the side walls. It has an awesome effect of making the image appear to float on the wall rather than seeing the screen.... but it also makes the black floor much more noticeable when right next to any letterbox is black velvet. I did the whole wall for about $35 with remnant rolls and furniture tracks.
> 
> View attachment 3316126


What velvet did you get for that price? The best I've found is the SY Fabrics triple black which run $10.50/yard at 44" wide. 

One thing I've been pondering tonight is maybe not squaring off the room with the velvet but instead cut the room corners so that it's hanging. Then I can hide a bunch of stuff behind the "curtain" on the sides. That might also allow me to stretch fabric across the room between the two "curtain rods" to make a little fake ceiling for the first three feet of the room. The room's ceiling sucks for covering. It's sloped and 12' high on the screen's wall.


----------



## JereyWolf

rjyap said:


> I would suggest to cover your ceiling at least 6 feet out from the front wall. That would be the best place to cut out light reflection.


I'd like to black out my whole room...but it's a living room open to other parts of the house and my biggest problem is just stray ambient light. 

I'm not sure how much velvet on the ceiling would improve my image, I don't have any noticeable stray light from the projector lighting up the ceiling like many people do. I'm lucky that my screen is about 2.5 feet below the ceiling and the ceiling vaults up at a steep angle. This image shows that a bit better.


----------



## JereyWolf

DesertDog said:


> What velvet did you get for that price? The best I've found is the SY Fabrics triple black which run $10.50/yard at 44" wide.
> 
> One thing I've been pondering tonight is maybe not squaring off the room with the velvet but instead cut the room corners so that it's hanging. Then I can hide a bunch of stuff behind the "curtain" on the sides. That might also allow me to stretch fabric across the room between the two "curtain rods" to make a little fake ceiling for the first three feet of the room. The room's ceiling sucks for covering. It's sloped and 12' high on the screen's wall.


This is the Etsy listing for the velvet I got.


----------



## MrGrimble

If we're on the subject of fabrics - I may need to cover my some of my ceiling with some black fabrics, so I just wanted to know - 1) What's the preferred material to "stick" to my ceiling? 2) What's the best way to install it?


----------



## m0j0

MrGrimble said:


> If we're on the subject of fabrics - I may need to cover my some of my ceiling with some black fabrics, so I just wanted to know - 1) What's the preferred material to "stick" to my ceiling? 2) What's the best way to install it?


Start here: The Blacker the Theater, The Better the Image


----------



## Ricoflashback

I gotta say that I'm really impressed with this UST projector. The black level is fantastic and the colors (while not calibrated) look great to me in the "Office" mode with a little tweaking. The .6 gain doesn't matter as much at night and I'm sure it helps with the black floor (as well as the UST ALR screen properties.) But the colors are spectacular - - very deep and vivid. We have a couple cats and I find that I need to clean the lens more than with a higher, regular throw PJ. 

Maybe it's just the projector settling in or my eyes getting used to it, but a very nice image at a great price!


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> I gotta say that I'm really impressed with this UST projector. The black level is fantastic and the colors (while not calibrated) look great to me in the "Office" mode with a little tweaking. The .6 gain doesn't matter as much at night and I'm sure it helps with the black floor (as well as the UST ALR screen properties.) But the colors are spectacular - - very deep and vivid. We have a couple cats and I find that I need to clean the lens more than with a higher, regular throw PJ.
> 
> Maybe it's just the projector settling in or my eyes getting used to it, but a very nice image at a great price!


All the images we posted didn’t do the T1 justice. The color pop is just at another level and can’t be capture and display on regular display.


----------



## Diarf22

Ricoflashback said:


> I gotta say that I'm really impressed with this UST projector. The black level is fantastic and the colors (while not calibrated) look great to me in the "Office" mode with a little tweaking. The .6 gain doesn't matter as much at night and I'm sure it helps with the black floor (as well as the UST ALR screen properties.) But the colors are spectacular - - very deep and vivid. We have a couple cats and I find that I need to clean the lens more than with a higher, regular throw PJ.
> 
> Maybe it's just the projector settling in or my eyes getting used to it, but a very nice image at a great price!


I'm sure it's amazing in an environment like yours with the higher brightness modes! And, I must say, for anyone with a batcave like I have I wouldn't shy away from auditioning one of these projectors and putting it in its Night mode. In Standard mode with reasonable color temp settings to cut some of the excess blue and an HD Fury device for LLDV (which really is far superior than the built-in DV at the moment unfortunately), you're looking at circa 1,500 lumens at least and a very respectable black floor with a 1.0 gain screen.

I've had a JVC RS600, Epson LS10500 and BenQ HT9060 in my space previously so I've seen much higher native contrast in my batcave environment as well as a premium DLP with a razor sharp lens but much lower native. With the right content, this little UST beats them all due to the color coverage and volume. I've played around with higher brightness modes for content like Inside Out and it's really just mind-boggling to see those 2020 colors on a large screen. With the "wrong" content like the new Batman, some Dune scenes, etc. it's still a quite pleasing image and not as far away from the LS10500 as the measurements would suggest, which were about 17-18k1 with the iris mostly closed when I had that projector.


----------



## DeniDoman

Hi again, folks! Got my Formovie Theater several days ago and it's awesome even without CLR screen, even with a white curved wall  My "XY Screen - PET Crystal" should arrive next week, but before it I want to clarify optimal projector and screen heights.

At this moment, the projector placed on a 46cm (18") cabinet, so the bottom of an image is about 91cm (36"). When I am sitting on my sofa, my eyes are on 91cm (36") level too - so I look to the bottom screen line in normal position. It's ok for my from physiology side, but I'm afraid that I can miss CLR screen honeypot. Screen manufacturer says that view angle is 160 degrees, but is it truth?

How do you think, should I try to lower my projector? And how much lower? Or it's normal and I should'n warn? How you folks handle it? Have a high sofa? Or place your projector on the floor?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Diarf22 said:


> I'm sure it's amazing in an environment like yours with the higher brightness modes! And, I must say, for anyone with a batcave like I have I wouldn't shy away from auditioning one of these projectors and putting it in its Night mode. In Standard mode with reasonable color temp settings to cut some of the excess blue and an HD Fury device for LLDV (which really is far superior than the built-in DV at the moment unfortunately), you're looking at circa 1,500 lumens at least and a very respectable black floor with a 1.0 gain screen.
> 
> I've had a JVC RS600, Epson LS10500 and BenQ HT9060 in my space previously so I've seen much higher native contrast in my batcave environment as well as a premium DLP with a razor sharp lens but much lower native. With the right content, this little UST beats them all due to the color coverage and volume. I've played around with higher brightness modes for content like Inside Out and it's really just mind-boggling to see those 2020 colors on a large screen. With the "wrong" content like the new Batman, some Dune scenes, etc. it's still a quite pleasing image and not as far away from the LS10500 as the measurements would suggest, which were about 17-18k1 with the iris mostly closed when I had that projector.


Wow - nice post and a great collection of projectors! Even with my “El Cheapo” ALR screen, the colors are fantastic. For our next move, I’d like to have at least a 120” screen. I’ll really try to pick the best screen I can and invest properly. Heck, I might even get it calibrated with the caveat that I can always change it. And, maybe add the HD Fury to the equation. I keep asking to see if Brian at projectorscreen.com can hookup the madVR Envy Pro with a CinemaScope screen. Yes, a little bit of a component mismatch in price but a fun exercise.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Plain, old cable signal with still lots of pop at 1080p as upscaled by Xfinity:


----------



## lattiboy

Diarf22 said:


> I'm sure it's amazing in an environment like yours with the higher brightness modes! And, I must say, for anyone with a batcave like I have I wouldn't shy away from auditioning one of these projectors and putting it in its Night mode. In Standard mode with reasonable color temp settings to cut some of the excess blue and an HD Fury device for LLDV (which really is far superior than the built-in DV at the moment unfortunately), you're looking at circa 1,500 lumens at least and a very respectable black floor with a 1.0 gain screen.
> 
> I've had a JVC RS600, Epson LS10500 and BenQ HT9060 in my space previously so I've seen much higher native contrast in my batcave environment as well as a premium DLP with a razor sharp lens but much lower native. With the right content, this little UST beats them all due to the color coverage and volume. I've played around with higher brightness modes for content like Inside Out and it's really just mind-boggling to see those 2020 colors on a large screen. With the "wrong" content like the new Batman, some Dune scenes, etc. it's still a quite pleasing image and not as far away from the LS10500 as the measurements would suggest, which were about 17-18k1 with the iris mostly closed when I had that projector.


agree, Inside Out in DV with an HD Fury should be mandatory for any T1 owner. Just mind-bending color like I’ve never seen in my life.

Blue Planet II should be your next showcase. Episode 3 (Corals) is just jaw-dropping.


----------



## DeniDoman

DeniDoman said:


> Hi again, folks! Got my Formovie Theater several days ago and it's awesome even without CLR screen, even with a white curved wall  My "XY Screen - PET Crystal" should arrive next week, but before it I want to clarify optimal projector and screen heights.
> 
> At this moment, the projector placed on a 46cm (18") cabinet, so the bottom of an image is about 91cm (36"). When I am sitting on my sofa, my eyes are on 91cm (36") level too - so I look to the bottom screen line in normal position. It's ok for my from physiology side, but I'm afraid that I can miss CLR screen honeypot. Screen manufacturer says that view angle is 160 degrees, but is it truth?
> 
> How do you think, should I try to lower my projector? And how much lower? Or it's normal and I should'n warn? How you folks handle it? Have a high sofa? Or place your projector on the floor?


I have drew a scheme 

What do you think, should a lower projector position? Or my CLR screen XY Screen - PET Crystal could handle such setup?


----------



## rjyap

DeniDoman said:


> I have drew a scheme
> 
> What do you think, should a lower projector position? Or my CLR screen XY Screen - PET Crystal could handle such setup?
> 
> View attachment 3316765


I would go for bottom of the screen around 2 feet from the ground.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

I also would recommend approximately 24 inches off the ground for bottom of the viewing area with a 100 inch or less diagonal screen. Larger I would try to move the screen a few inches lower if possible, otherwise your upward viewing angle will start to become somewhat elevated. Depending on your seating arrangements this may, or may not be an issue. 
Your stand needs to be 14.6 inches lower than the bottom of the viewing area for a 100" screen.


----------



## DeniDoman

MRJAZZZ said:


> I also would recommend approximately 24 inches off the ground for bottom of the viewing area with a 100 inch or less diagonal screen. Larger I would try to move the screen a few inches lower if possible, otherwise your upward viewing angle will start to become somewhat elevated. Depending on your seating arrangements this may, or may not be an issue.
> Your stand needs to be 14.6 inches lower than the bottom of the viewing area for a 100" screen.


My screen is 120" btw.


----------



## Ricoflashback

lattiboy said:


> agree, Inside Out in DV with an HD Fury should be mandatory for any T1 owner. Just mind-bending color like I’ve never seen in my life.
> 
> Blue Planet II should be your next showcase. Episode 3 (Corals) is just jaw-dropping.


Any benefit to using or investing in the HD 8K Vroom versus the Vertex 2? Same settings?

Also - is all the switching (HDMI Inputs) automatic or via an HD Fury remote? Thx.


----------



## 3sprit

DeniDoman said:


> I have drew a scheme
> 
> What do you think, should a lower projector position? Or my CLR screen XY Screen - PET Crystal could handle such setup?
> 
> View attachment 3316765


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Any benefit to using or investing in the HD 8K Vroom versus the Vertex 2? Same settings?
> 
> Also - is all the switching (HDMI Inputs) automatic or via an HD Fury remote? Thx.


I'm not sure on your first question, I'm not familiar enough with the Vroom to say if the 8k support is the only difference. 

For switching, it's automatic with the vertex and diva models so I assume it is with the vroom too. Only time I ever had to touch the unit (physically or through the app/web) is if I need to change a setting.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> I'm not sure on your first question, I'm not familiar enough with the Vroom to say if the 8k support is the only difference.
> 
> For switching, it's automatic with the vertex and diva models so I assume it is with the vroom too. Only time I ever had to touch the unit (physically or through the app/web) is if I need to change a setting.


If I read it correctly, the Vroom upscales 1080p to 4K - which might be helpful with my cable signal as opposed to having the T1 upscale from my Xfinity non-4K STB.


----------



## m0j0

Also 4 hdmi 2.1 ports on the vrroom if that's of interest.


----------



## Diarf22

Ricoflashback said:


> Wow - nice post and a great collection of projectors! Even with my “El Cheapo” ALR screen, the colors are fantastic. For our next move, I’d like to have at least a 120” screen. I’ll really try to pick the best screen I can and invest properly. Heck, I might even get it calibrated with the caveat that I can always change it. And, maybe add the HD Fury to the equation. I keep asking to see if Brian at projectorscreen.com can hookup the madVR Envy Pro with a CinemaScope screen. Yes, a little bit of a component mismatch in price but a fun exercise.


Thanks! Yeah, I highly recommend the HD Fury with this projector as it stands. One of the things I really like about it is that sending LLDV unlocks the Adaptive Luma and Local Contrast controls that can really increase the in-image contrast subjectively. I prefer Low for Adaptive Luma since it provides some of the same punch as High in bright and low APL scenes alike without crushing some of the detail that comes with High. I prefer the middle setting for Local Contrast.

My testing showed that only Local Contrast works in the projector's native Dolby Vision but not the Adaptive Luma, which combined with the hazier black floor and tone mapping issues in DV Dark mode makes it sort of a dealbreaker for me at the moment.

Regarding madVR, I saw at the MWAVE event that the Epson LS12000 with the Envy could stand shoulder to shoulder and even surpass the higher end JVCs in some scenes. That had me wondering what an Envy could do for this UST even if it's not remotely in the budget for me!



lattiboy said:


> agree, Inside Out in DV with an HD Fury should be mandatory for any T1 owner. Just mind-bending color like I’ve never seen in my life.
> 
> Blue Planet II should be your next showcase. Episode 3 (Corals) is just jaw-dropping.


Thanks for the awesome recommendation since I actually have not seen Blue Planet II yet. It's on the list now!


----------



## DeniDoman

rjyap said:


> I would go for bottom of the screen around 2 feet from the ground.





MRJAZZZ said:


> I also would recommend approximately 24 inches off the ground for bottom of the viewing area with a 100 inch or less diagonal screen. Larger I would try to move the screen a few inches lower if possible, otherwise your upward viewing angle will start to become somewhat elevated. Depending on your seating arrangements this may, or may not be an issue.
> Your stand needs to be 14.6 inches lower than the bottom of the viewing area for a 100" screen.





3sprit said:


> Attachment


Thank you folks! After your advices, I have decided to construct ultra-low cabinet, about 10cm (4") from the floor level. Just bought MDF panels, corners, screws, and will try to assemble it on a weekend.


----------



## rjyap

DeniDoman said:


> Thank you folks! After your advices, I have decided to construct ultra-low cabinet, about 10cm (4") from the floor level. Just bought MDF panels, corners, screws, and will try to assemble it on a weekend.
> 
> View attachment 3317255


Better to get adjustable feet for your MDF panels. It's easier to adjust the corner geometry of the projector this way. 









3 Inch Adjustable Metal Desk Table Furniture Legs, Replacement Leg Legs for Coffee Table, Desk, etc, Set of 4 (Black) - - Amazon.com


3 Inch Adjustable Metal Desk Table Furniture Legs, Replacement Leg Legs for Coffee Table, Desk, etc, Set of 4 (Black) - - Amazon.com



www.amazon.com


----------



## MDesigns

Anyone tried ceiling mounting? Or is it possible with this model? Good adjustable mount should work and keep the projector of the ground. Should work atleast with a white screen in a dedicated space.


----------



## MrGrimble

Ricoflashback said:


> If I read it correctly, the Vroom upscales 1080p to 4K - which might be helpful with my cable signal as opposed to having the T1 upscale from my Xfinity non-4K STB.


There’s also the diva in the middle, but I have no idea what are the differences between the diva and the vertex2


----------



## Fox&304

Are the HDMI 2.1 on by default ? It seems the PS5 doesn't recognize the ALLM so I'd say it's not ? 
Also, getting more & more impressed by this PJ. For those that have Disney+, I cannot recommend the Frozen Christmas special short enough. It's full of blue/light effects on black background, razor sharpness, and really is a good demo for this PJ.


----------



## DesertDog

DeniDoman said:


> Thank you folks! After your advices, I have decided to construct ultra-low cabinet, about 10cm (4") from the floor level. Just bought MDF panels, corners, screws, and will try to assemble it on a weekend.


One other option to consider is building a HeZe for your couch. It'll raise it up 4-5" if you do it cone down. Cone up will raise you up. 8-9". My screen is mounted about 1.5" lower than yours and I sit at decent position thanks to it. The TR you get from it will blow away any sub that are running in the room. 









The Tactile Response Thread for BASS :))


Got TR!!!??? :D:D:D Lone Survivor 6hz Chopper Scene with a HoverEZe Tactile Response in the Home Theater environment seems to really be catching on these days around here which is awesome!! Really glad to see it, as it can make such an amazing difference in the movie watching and bass...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## m0j0

DesertDog said:


> One other option to consider is building a HeZe for your couch. It'll raise it up 4-5" if you do it cone down. Cone up will raise you up. 8-9". My screen is mounted about 1.5" lower than yours and I sit at decent position thanks to it. The TR you get from it will blow away any sub that are running in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tactile Response Thread for BASS :))
> 
> 
> Got TR!!!??? :D:D:D Lone Survivor 6hz Chopper Scene with a HoverEZe Tactile Response in the Home Theater environment seems to really be catching on these days around here which is awesome!! Really glad to see it, as it can make such an amazing difference in the movie watching and bass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


Beware the TR rabbit hole... you have been warned...


----------



## DesertDog

MrGrimble said:


> There’s also the diva in the middle, but I have no idea what are the differences between the diva and the vertex2


I would not recommend getting the Diva over the vertex2 for this projector. The Diva is what I have and is better for a TV than a PJ. The main differences are that the Diva has a lag tester and active bias lighting. Both are items that you won't be using here. So to me it's a no brainer to save the cash. It's what I'd do if I was buying now and not 3 or 4 years ago.


----------



## DesertDog

m0j0 said:


> Beware the TR rabbit hole... you have been warned...


Hush you. I'm trying to sucker initiate someone to our ways. Keep giving warnings like that and Shelby might have to take disciplinary action.


----------



## MrGrimble

Just saw this clip of the global version





The rainbow effect is apparent several times and there's Judder when Charlize gets off the truck and walks.
I'm guessing/hoping that this is not your experience with the Formovie Theater.


----------



## Sonny Red

MrGrimble said:


> Just saw this clip of the global version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rainbow effect is apparent several times and there's Judder when Charlize gets off the truck and walks.
> I'm guessing/hoping that this is not your experience with the Formovie Theater.


I saw that also and I am a little worried as I have ordered the Formovie Theater


----------



## Brajesh

Fox&304 said:


> Are the HDMI 2.1 on by default ? It seems the PS5 doesn't recognize the ALLM so I'd say it's not ?


No to HDMI 2.1 by default. You need to go to Settings > Inputs > any active HDMI input and choose 2.1. With my Shield TV, had to unplug, re-plug HDMI cable to have projector allow [email protected] w/DV.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Here comes the rainbow and judder fud.


----------



## Aztar35

MrGrimble said:


> Just saw this clip of the global version
> 
> 
> The rainbow effect is apparent several times and there's Judder when Charlize gets off the truck and walks.
> I'm guessing/hoping that this is not your experience with the Formovie Theater.


I have the distant relative to this projector, the Xiaomi Laser C2. Yes, I've noticed judder on it too but only when streaming, 60hz content, and that's even very rare. I don't recall ever seeing judder when watching 24hz content. Was that clip streamed or on disc?

Rainbow effect/RBE may be different on the T1 though because it has the green laser/RGB lasers and is a little brighter than the Laser C2, which I believe is 2400 lumens. I have yet to get a demonstration of the T1 Global. 

Yes, I've seen some RBE on the Laser C2 but that's very, very rare --so rare that I don't notice it anymore ...might have gotten used to whatever little bit there was, who knows. keep in mind that different people can have different levels of sensitivity to the effect.


----------



## MrGrimble

Ricoflashback said:


> Here comes the rainbow and judder fud.


Sorry if this upsets you but you know that you can release me from that fud just by saying that your experience with T1 global was not as seen in the clip 😊 

I had a DLP projector for the last 6 years and I never seen any of this. I’m guessing that the owner did not fine tune it and that the judder effect can be smoothen out, but the rainbow effect is very apparent in this clip, so I just wanted to get some feedback from current owners.


----------



## Fox&304

Wait holy **** the projector is 120hz and VRR compatible ? I’m blown away. 
hdmi 2.1 was indeed off by default.When switched on the PS5 allowed everything. Madness


----------



## Demetri Zuev

Came back from a vacation to my unit waiting for me. Are there any settings list for optimal color considering all the additional setting possibilities the Global version has over T1?


----------



## Demetri Zuev

MrGrimble said:


> Just saw this clip of the global version
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rainbow effect is apparent several times and there's Judder when Charlize gets off the truck and walks.
> I'm guessing/hoping that this is not your experience with the Formovie Theater.


RBE is purely subjective for any single human being and his or her sensitivity to it, there's no point in trying to make any conclusions about it based on a screener. I see RBE when watching films on my Xiaomi C2 and my wife doesn't see it at all, go figure


----------



## Sonny Red

Fox&304 said:


> Wait holy **** the projector is 120hz and VRR compatible ? I’m blown away.
> hdmi 2.1 was indeed off by default.When switched on the PS5 allowed everything. Madness



Currently there are no 120 Hz and/or 120 Hz VRR compliant.

Like the Hisense PX1 Pro. HDMI inputs are 2.1 compatible but the image displayed on your screen will be limited to 60 Hz


----------



## tnaik4

Diarf22 said:


> Thanks! Yeah, I highly recommend the HD Fury with this projector as it stands. One of the things I really like about it is that sending LLDV unlocks the Adaptive Luma and Local Contrast controls that can really increase the in-image contrast subjectively. I prefer Low for Adaptive Luma since it provides some of the same punch as High in bright and low APL scenes alike without crushing some of the detail that comes with High. I prefer the middle setting for Local Contrast.
> 
> My testing showed that only Local Contrast works in the projector's native Dolby Vision but not the Adaptive Luma, which combined with the hazier black floor and tone mapping issues in DV Dark mode makes it sort of a dealbreaker for me at the moment.
> 
> Regarding madVR, I saw at the MWAVE event that the Epson LS12000 with the Envy could stand shoulder to shoulder and even surpass the higher end JVCs in some scenes. That had me wondering what an Envy could do for this UST even if it's not remotely in the budget for me!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the awesome recommendation since I actually have not seen Blue Planet II yet. It's on the list now!


Not an Envy owner but MadVR htpc user so basically same thing and i can tell u the T1 with MadVR tone mapping is absolutely amazing!


----------



## MrGrimble

Demetri Zuev said:


> there's no point in trying to make any conclusions about it based on a screener.


I haven't made any conclusions. I just wanted to get some feedback from current owners.


----------



## ProjectionHead

The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


----------



## Fox&304

Sonny Red said:


> Currently there are no 120 Hz and/or 120 Hz VRR compliant.
> 
> Like the Hisense PX1 Pro. HDMI inputs are 2.1 compatible but the image displayed on your screen will be limited to 60 Hz


VRR works though. In the 48/60hz range though as you said.


----------



## Fox&304

Is there some infos on what audio format the theater is able to pass through ?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Yeah, but it has judder and rainbows. Just kidding! Great work and a fantastic group of evaluators. Maybe it's just me but I've never seen colors on a projector like this before. Deep, deep reds, blues, greens, etc. Amazing.


----------



## RickMes

Can anyone recommend a good but not very expensive screen for a UST projector that is acceptable with moderate daylight on a living room (will replace my current TV) but which still works great when in total darkness (which I am guessing will be used most of the time)?
Does one compromise the other or is there a good solution (CLR?) for both?

Also, I have a good old Arcam DVD Player without HDMI and I am looking for a good component to HDMI converter? Can anyone recommend one, too?

Thanks, guys!


----------



## Movie_geek

ProjectionHead said:


> The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Great to see how this event came together. It looks like it was a fantastic time (I hope we'll see some YouTube content from some of the judges too)

For the Formovie, are you all still doing focus checks before sending them out for customers who request them? If so should I give you a call or just make a note on an online order? (if this needs to go to DM to stay within the forum rules happy to take it there too


----------



## rooterha

ProjectionHead said:


> The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Wow! Impressive. Feels good to see what some of us have been mocked for in the past being echoed by real professionals.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rooterha said:


> Wow! Impressive. Feels good to see what some of us have been mocked for in the past being echoed by real professionals.


Hopefully, theT1 will make its way on to the projectorcentral.com website. Maybe there is other criteria needed for this to happen but I’ve always thought of projector central.com as the Holy Grail of projector information. And a big shout out to Brian Gluck at projectorscreen.com for hosting these type events and bringing the T1 to the United States and being able to buy from an authorized, trusted dealer. Maybe we should have Brian work on world peace? Nah - on second thought, his work with home and audio theater requires his full attention.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Nice! Great to see how we held up. I asked a couple questions over in the shootout but a couple specifics for here. I'm assuming the answer to my HDFury question is no so if so, any chance that one of you guys recorded the settings used in the shootout? I'm curious to see how it looks and compares to the settings that @Dave Harper posted with one. 

I'm finally at a point were I can start playing with my picture settings more. The last of my new stand and other equipment was put together yesterday. I ended up having to redesign the middle section of my stand 3 times due to drawer hardware not being up to snuff for what I was trying to do. I'll be posting updates when I can to my build thread. So today is audio calibration since it's easier for me and then I'll be starting in on the picture. Brian, I'll be writing a review for you too. I had been waiting to get the last bits installed for the pictures.


----------



## rooterha

Hopefully my paycheck from Fengmi will finally come in now that we've boosted it to #1 😎


----------



## ProjectionHead

Movie_geek said:


> Great to see how this event came together. It looks like it was a fantastic time (I hope we'll see some YouTube content from some of the judges too)
> 
> For the Formovie, are you all still doing focus checks before sending them out for customers who request them? If so should I give you a call or just make a note on an online order? (if this needs to go to DM to stay within the forum rules happy to take it there too


Will do upon request. May add 1-2 days before it ships.


----------



## rjyap

rooterha said:


> Hopefully my paycheck from Fengmi will finally come in now that we've boosted it to #1 😎


How about my share? Anyway, numbers don't lie. T1 high contrast and rich color measurement show it's advantage plus the pricing is great compare to other established brand.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> How about my share? Anyway, numbers don't lie. T1 high contrast and rich color measurement show it's advantage plus the pricing is great compare to other established brand.


Yes, the initial T1 supporters need to be rewarded. Especially Lattiboy, who opened my eyes a lot about the T1. And, I believe another poster whose name I don’t remember that first talked about the original T1 and its incredible black levels.


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes, the initial T1 supporters need to be rewarded. Especially Lattiboy, who opened my eyes a lot about the T1. And, I believe another poster whose name I don’t remember that first talked about the original T1 and its incredible black levels.


Gregory (Kraine) actually deserve the credit for doing the measurement on contrast and color coverage. I based on his measurement and observation before buying one as I know the rest of the issue can be resolved thru madVR (HDR and Dolby Vision problem during firmware v1.4). He can be brutally honest and direct.


----------



## clipghost

Is the Formovie Laser TV 4K Cinema that is available for $2699 the same as the Formivie Theater? Or completely different? - Cinema in your home

Not trying to talk price, just want to know if they are different?

Also while I appreciate the Spectra screens and the quality, that price just seems steep for a screen. You could get a Vividstom roll up screen for that price and have that option.

Anyone else have any screens they recommend at 120" with similar gain?


----------



## DesertDog

clipghost said:


> Is the Formovie Laser TV 4K Cinema that is available for $2699 the same as the Formivie Theater? Or completely different? - Cinema in your home
> 
> Not trying to talk price, just want to know if they are different?
> 
> Also while I appreciate the Spectra screens and the quality, that price just seems steep for a screen. You could get a Vividstom roll up screen for that price and have that option.
> 
> Anyone else have any screens they recommend at 120" with similar gain?


It looks like that's the previous gen model going by the specs. Hit the Formovie Theater tab at the top of that page. Interestingly it looks like they're doing a kickstarter type thing for the movie. I'd check what the warranty and support coverage is though on buying direct over through Brian. If something goes bad it might be more of a headache if you have to ship to China or something odd like you do with the T1 version.


----------



## Aztar35

ProjectionHead said:


> *The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown* hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Very nice, Brian. Thanks. But to be candid, I'm not even in the least bit surprised: wide color, price, more plug-n-play with this one, Dolby Vision, good blacks and contrast --among the best for this UST platform.


----------



## NicoDXB

RickMes said:


> Can anyone recommend a good but not very expensive screen for a UST projector that is acceptable with moderate daylight on a living room (will replace my current TV) but which still works great when in total darkness (which I am guessing will be used most of the time)?
> Does one compromise the other or is there a good solution (CLR?) for both?
> 
> Also, I have a good old Arcam DVD Player without HDMI and I am looking for a good component to HDMI converter? Can anyone recommend one, too?
> 
> Thanks, guys!


Hey Rick,

I was on a similar quest as you - I ended up painting my wall - I cannot say that it was easy as the wall has to be 100% straight.
I used the topcoat from paintonscreen.com who makes a special UST painting with 0.6 gain.
It was the compromise with the wife as her ambition was to avoid ANY screen on the wall - It works very well at night/evenings. During day with the curtains it is ok for higher contrast movies - It is not really a totally light controlled room.

I know it is a compromise but the benefit is that when there is no TV on it does not look like we have a house-alter - It does raise the problem that Joey from friends highlighted: "Where do you point your furniture?"


----------



## Sonny Red

NicoDXB said:


> Hey Rick,
> 
> I was on a similar quest as you - I ended up painting my wall - I cannot say that it was easy as the wall has to be 100% straight.
> I used the topcoat from paintonscreen.com who makes a special UST painting with 0.6 gain.
> It was the compromise with the wife as her ambition was to avoid ANY screen on the wall - It works very well at night/evenings. During day with the curtains it is ok for higher contrast movies - It is not really a totally light controlled room.
> 
> I know it is a compromise but the benefit is that when there is no TV on it does not look like we have a house-alter - It does raise the problem that Joey from friends highlighted: "Where do you point your furniture?"


Why don’t you choose a floor raised tensioned screen like a vividstorm and hide it in a cabinet ?


----------



## NicoDXB

Sonny Red said:


> Why don’t you choose a floor raised tensioned screen like a vividstorm and hide it in a cabinet ?


Budget primarily - It will be something that I will do in the future for sure - this was a good stop gap for now


----------



## RickMes

NicoDXB said:


> Hey Rick,
> 
> I was on a similar quest as you - I ended up painting my wall - I cannot say that it was easy as the wall has to be 100% straight.
> I used the topcoat from paintonscreen.com who makes a special UST painting with 0.6 gain.
> It was the compromise with the wife as her ambition was to avoid ANY screen on the wall - It works very well at night/evenings. During day with the curtains it is ok for higher contrast movies - It is not really a totally light controlled room.
> 
> I know it is a compromise but the benefit is that when there is no TV on it does not look like we have a house-alter - It does raise the problem that Joey from friends highlighted: "Where do you point your furniture?"


That option crossed my mind. Live with that while I out together the budget for a decent screen while making sure of a comfortable size. Will check its price and where to buy.

Thanks!


----------



## NicoDXB

RickMes said:


> That option crossed my mind. Live with that while I out together the budget for a decent screen while making sure of a comfortable size. Will check its price and where to buy.
> 
> Thanks!


Btw...I painted around 6 sqm (3 x 2m) and I was told by paintonscreen.com that I needed a gallon for that. With proper prep and primer i ended up just using a qt.

Nicolai


----------



## RickMes

NicoDXB said:


> Btw...I painted around 6 sqm (3 x 2m) and I was told by paintonscreen.com that I needed a gallon for that. With proper prep and primer i ended up just using a qt.
> 
> Nicolai


Thanks for the extra info. As I don't have experience with wall painting any advice is very welcome. I started a chat with them to see what I need. I am guessing I will got for a 90" screen size.


----------



## Ricoflashback

NicoDXB said:


> Hey Rick,
> 
> I was on a similar quest as you - I ended up painting my wall - I cannot say that it was easy as the wall has to be 100% straight.
> I used the topcoat from paintonscreen.com who makes a special UST painting with 0.6 gain.
> It was the compromise with the wife as her ambition was to avoid ANY screen on the wall - It works very well at night/evenings. During day with the curtains it is ok for higher contrast movies - It is not really a totally light controlled room.
> 
> I know it is a compromise but the benefit is that when there is no TV on it does not look like we have a house-alter - It does raise the problem that Joey from friends highlighted: "Where do you point your furniture?"


Certainly an option if you own your own place. Right now, we are renting before buying. I settled for a cheap Wemax 100” ALR screen that was $399 on Amazon Prime Days. It’s spectacular at night which I’m really surprised at and so-so in the daytime as we have over ten foot ceilings with a ton of natural light pouring in.

The aesthetics with having just a wall is very cool but unless you’re really good (and I mean really good) at prepping, sanding and painting, you can lose a lot of sharpness with the picture. A product like a Vividstorm floor rising screen would have to be raised off the floor in my environment. Glad other folks have found an acceptable solution. It’s tough living without a projector, IMHO. It’s become a have to have as opposed to a nice to have requirement for me.


----------



## MDesigns

ProjectionHead said:


> The Formovie Theater just won the 2022 Laser TV showdown hosted by Projector Central & ProjectorScreen.com!
> Read about it here: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022
> AVS Forum Thread here: ProjectorCentral Teams with ProjectorScreen.com for the...


Thank you for the shootout, awesome work!  

There is one slightly unpredictable score that caught my eye. Maybe you or @Dave Harper have some background to it? There is a score for dark reference mode SDR and HDR Black Level(+shadow detail). Samsung got full 10 for SDR black level and Formovie theater only 8.6. On HDR it is the other way around. I would have thought the Formovie Theater to get the bigger score in pure SDR performance with the much bigger native contrast? Or was this more about shadow details, that could have been adjusted with calibration? Then there is the contrast score. I tried to look at the text, but couldn't find what were the evaluated things to base the score on Contrast vs. Black level?


----------



## NicoDXB

RickMes said:


> Thanks for the extra info. As I don't have experience with wall painting any advice is very welcome. I started a chat with them to see what I need. I am guessing I will got for a 90" screen size.


Hey - Very important that the wall becomes very straight - Dont skimp on that.
I used a company to do my wall, but I think I could have done it myself. They used a product called stucco (Some kind of gypsom product) and then they just went off sanding like crazy.
A lot of it depends on how good the initial wall is.
I am not 100% happy with some areas, so I may complain and get them to redo it...let's see if I can be bothered.


----------



## ProjectionHead

MDesigns said:


> Thank you for the shootout, awesome work!
> 
> There is one slightly unpredictable score that caught my eye. Maybe you or @Dave Harper have some background to it? There is a score for dark reference mode SDR and HDR Black Level(+shadow detail). Samsung got full 10 for SDR black level and Formovie theater only 8.6. On HDR it is the other way around. I would have thought the Formovie Theater to get the bigger score in pure SDR performance with the much bigger native contrast? Or was this more about shadow details, that could have been adjusted with calibration? Then there is the contrast score. I tried to look at the text, but couldn't find what were the evaluated things to base the score on Contrast vs. Black level?
> 
> View attachment 3318320


I believe Rob Sabin will expand on this more at Projector Central. He was the one providing the direction to judges and queuing up the various content, etc.
I was not there in the room for the entirety of the event and was entirely removed from the content/direction.


----------



## RickMes

NicoDXB said:


> Hey - Very important that the wall becomes very straight - Dont skimp on that.
> I used a company to do my wall, but I think I could have done it myself. They used a product called stucco (Some kind of gypsom product) and then they just went off sanding like crazy.
> A lot of it depends on how good the initial wall is.
> I am not 100% happy with some areas, so I may complain and get them to redo it...let's see if I can be bothered.


I guess I'd better get a professional to paint it then. Maybe a darker grey around the screen?


----------



## NicoDXB

RickMes said:


> I guess I'd better get a professional to paint it then. Maybe a darker grey around the screen?


In all fairness my wall was pretty bad to start with


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> Nice! Great to see how we held up. I asked a couple questions over in the shootout but a couple specifics for here. I'm assuming the answer to my HDFury question is no so if so, any chance that one of you guys recorded the settings used in the shootout? I'm curious to see how it looks and compares to the settings that @Dave Harper posted with one……...


We are going to record settings once I’m back in the office tomorrow and Wednesday. 

I ended up having to do another ForMovie unit for the shootout because the one I calibrated for the review got wiped accidentally somehow. So the settings may be slightly different. 

It’s up to Brian how and where these settings for all the projectors will be posted. Most likely they’ll be on his website and blog and maybe Projector Central’s as well. 

There were no HDFury or any other video processors or external DTM devices used of any sort for the showdown.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Certainly an option if you own your own place. Right now, we are renting before buying. I settled for a cheap Wemax 100” ALR screen that was $399 on Amazon Prime Days. It’s spectacular at night which I’m really surprised at and so-so in the daytime as we have over ten foot ceilings with a ton of natural light pouring in.
> 
> The aesthetics with having just a wall is very cool but unless you’re really good (and I mean really good) at prepping, sanding and painting, you can lose a lot of sharpness with the picture. A product like a Vividstorm floor rising screen would have to be raised off the floor in my environment. Glad other folks have found an acceptable solution. It’s tough living without a projector, IMHO. It’s become a have to have as opposed to a nice to have requirement for me.


How do you like the WeMax? I am sure at night all is fine but during the day is it passable? Are you using the ForMovie with it?


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> We are going to record settings once I’m back in the office tomorrow and Wednesday.
> 
> I ended up having to do another ForMovie unit for the shootout because the one I calibrated for the review got wiped accidentally somehow. So the settings may be slightly different.
> 
> It’s up to Brian how and where these settings for all the projectors will be posted. Most likely they’ll be on his website and blog and maybe Projector Central’s as well.
> 
> There were no HDFury or any other video processors or external DTM devices used of any sort for the showdown.


Ok, cool! 

On the settings being wiped out, I've had that happen too. I think I've entered your HDFurry based settings 3 times now. It seem to be an issue with power loss. Each time it happened to me was after plugging it back in after moving equipment around. It feels like they have a bug where the values aren't always written to non-volatile memory. 

BTW, @Dave Harper how did you think your calibration for the shootout compared to your one with the HDFury? Would the Global have scored even better if you had it in the mix? My gut is saying it would have but I'm curious at the difference.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> How do you like the WeMax? I am sure at night all is fine but during the day is it passable? Are you using the ForMovie with it?


Not passable in the daytime, IMHO. Just too washed out. But then again, we have light pouring in and lousy shades covering our patio door. Under these conditions, I'm not sure any screen would work great. I'm sure there are better UST ALR screens for the daytime but I haven't explored them. At night with the International T1, it's really an exceptional picture. Even with beige walls - - it's really nice. Stone cold gorgeous colors that will take your breath away.


----------



## RickMes

Ricoflashback said:


> It’s tough living without a projector, IMHO. It’s become a have to have as opposed to a nice to have requirement for me.


I totally understand you! I have been without one for 8 years and it's been difficult to kinda concentrate on gaming again and watching a movie or TV series never felt the same as before. Well, that and also the free time that ain't the same anymore. Eheh


----------



## clipghost

dami1337 said:


> 110 XY pet crystal screen (T1 chinese version). Great build quality, heavy and significant upside vs wall only even in the dark.
> 
> These are daylight photos (no direct sunlight).
> View attachment 3311191
> 
> View attachment 3311192
> 
> View attachment 3311193


So you have the T1 Globar with PET XY Screen. How are you liking it? How is it during the day time?


----------



## Bloobat

What the hell! I put the theater in my basket last night (was like 50 left still), woke up this morning and all sold out!! 

Edit: Appears they've suddenly closed the crowdfunding campaign hence all showing out of stock! Have raised a case with them as was definitely going to purchase for that crowdfunding price but not the other price on their site


----------



## Eason1983

Very curious about the color gamut score.
Formovie is a R,G,B laser + extra Phosphor wheel with about 89% BT 2020 based on Greg's actual measured data and LG is 3 Ch laser(Blue laser, Red laser, Blue laser + Green color whell) color gamut is only DCI-P3 based on LG's released info. 
Does there any actual measured data about all candidates?


----------



## Dawn Gordon

Ricoflashback said:


> Not passable in the daytime, IMHO. Just too washed out. But then again, we have light pouring in and lousy shades covering our patio door. Under these conditions, I'm not sure any screen would work great. I'm sure there are better UST ALR screens for the daytime but I haven't explored them. At night with the International T1, it's really an exceptional picture. Even with beige walls - - it's really nice. Stone cold gorgeous colors that will take your breath away.


Have you considered blackout curtains or new shades?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dawn Gordon said:


> Have you considered blackout curtains or new shades?


Like I said earlier - - we're renting right now before buying a house. So, it doesn't make sense to pay for any window treatments when we'll be leaving within a year. But...for our new place - - you can bet that blackout curtains or shades/shutters will be used to minimize as much light as I can!


----------



## Ricoflashback

I've had the International T1 for about a month now. I've noticed, even with cable, the deep hues and different colors that were not present with my previous projector. I mean, shades on clothing, cars, background - - the whole gamut. I watched "City On A Hill" yesterday (Showtime) and the colors were fantastic. Quick question, though. It almost seems like it's a videocam or recorder and the picture is like you're filming it. I'm just using the "Office" mode with a couple tweaks for my "Custom" setting. It's very noticeable compared to watching a live sports event. I'm not complaining - - it's just different. Is it my eyes or the way the T1 projects on the screen?

P.S. - I have the motion setting on low.


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> I've had the International T1 for about a month now. I've noticed, even with cable, the deep hues and different colors that were not present with my previous projector. I mean, shades on clothing, cars, background - - the whole gamut. I watched "City On A Hill" yesterday (Showtime) and the colors were fantastic. Quick question, though. It almost seems like it's a videocam or recorder and the picture is like you're filming it. I'm just using the "Office" mode with a couple tweaks for my "Custom" setting. It's very noticeable compared to watching a live sports event. I'm not complaining - - it's just different. Is it my eyes or the way the T1 projects on the screen?
> 
> P.S. - I have the motion setting on low.


That's soap opera effect by turning on motion setting. I set it to off and use MadVR motion smoothing.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> That's soap opera effect by turning on motion setting. I set it to off and use MadVR motion smoothing.


Still there with motion off - - and I've seen the soap opera affect and this isn't it. MadVR PC or the MadVR Envy or Pro?


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> Ok, cool!
> 
> On the settings being wiped out, I've had that happen too. I think I've entered your HDFurry based settings 3 times now. It seem to be an issue with power loss. Each time it happened to me was after plugging it back in after moving equipment around. It feels like they have a bug where the values aren't always written to non-volatile memory.
> 
> BTW, @Dave Harper how did you think your calibration for the shootout compared to your one with the HDFury? Would the Global have scored even better if you had it in the mix? My gut is saying it would have but I'm curious at the difference.


Do you mean the settings in the ForMovie or in the HDFury?

Yes I believe it’s even better with the Vertex2.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Do you mean the settings in the ForMovie or in the HDFury?
> 
> Yes I believe it’s even better with the Vertex2.


Sorry, the way I said that wasn't clear. It was the setting in the ForMovie that I've had to enter multiple times. They reset back to all "50s." I've never lost setting in the HDFury.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Would the settings on the HD Fury Vertex2 be the same as for the HD Fury 8K VRROOM? I might pickup the VRROOM for the upscaling of my cable 1080p to 4K versus having the T1 doing the upscaling. 

Any latest Vertex2 settings? Used with what combination of T1 settings? (International version - a difference versus the original T1?)

P.S. - does the Vertex2 upscale 1080p to 4K? If so - no need for the VRROOM as I'm not a gamer or looking for other functionality.


----------



## Al Griffin

*Formovie Theater hands-on review:*
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-formovie-theater-4k-projector-review

*Al Griffin /TechRadar*


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Would the settings on the HD Fury Vertex2 be the same as for the HD Fury 8K VRROOM? I might pickup the VRROOM for the upscaling of my cable 1080p to 4K versus having the T1 doing the upscaling.
> 
> Any latest Vertex2 settings? Used with what combination of T1 settings? (International version - a difference versus the original T1?)
> 
> P.S. - does the Vertex2 upscale 1080p to 4K? If so - no need for the VRROOM as I'm not a gamer or looking for other functionality.


The settings should be the same on the Vertex2 and VRRoom for this. I use a Diva and they're the same on it. I'm still using Dave's settings from a few pages back for the most part. I've only tweaked the contrast and brightness a little using a test pattern video. I'm hoping to have time before the weekend to play with the picture settings a little more.

It looks like the Vertex2 does the 1080p to 4k scaling. From the product page: Upscale port TX0: FHD 1080p & 2K to UHD 2160p & 4K/DCI.

@Dave Harper do you have preferred settings for the HDFury scaler? I know you have better knowledge than I do on a lot of the settings in one.


----------



## 3sprit

Where can I find the projector manual?


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> Where can I find the projector manual?





https://res.cloudinary.com/buyavprojectorscreen/image/upload/v1656091444/supporting-documents/Formovie_Theater_L206FGN-Manual.pdf


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> Still there with motion off - - and I've seen the soap opera affect and this isn't it. MadVR PC or the MadVR Envy or Pro?


I'm using MadVR PC


----------



## badboris

Anyone here use a Wemax ALR screen and care to comment on it?

Also, any idea who manufactures it for them?


----------



## Bloobat

Any chance they'll be adding 3D support via an update? Have seen people saying it could be done via a software update as no extra hardware is required? 

That's the only big feature missing at the minute imo


----------



## Scott Rosenberg

Bloobat said:


> Any chance they'll be adding 3D support via an update? Have seen people saying it could be done via a software update as no extra hardware is required?
> 
> That's the only big feature missing at the minute imo


I enquired about this several months ago directly with Fengmi and was told 3d support would not be possible via firmware update.


----------



## ProjectionHead

badboris said:


> Anyone here use a Wemax ALR screen and care to comment on it?
> 
> Also, any idea who manufactures it for them?


I believe @Ricoflashback is using that screen with the Formovie Theater


----------



## Bloobat

Scott Rosenberg said:


> I enquired about this several months ago directly with Fengmi and was told 3d support would not be possible via firmware update.


Mnnn do you think this is true? Or they're just saying that as they don't see the point/it'd be effort and money for a relatively underutilized format?


----------



## Mikenificent1

Dave Harper said:


> .
> 
> I ended up having to do another ForMovie unit for the shootout because the one I calibrated for the review got wiped accidentally somehow. So the settings may be slightly different.


In Al Griffin’s review he mentions the unit was on loan from ProjectionScreen.com and he purposely cleared out all the calibration settings 😂


----------



## Ricoflashback

I've seemed to reset something so I can't get Dolby Vision at 60HZ. Only Dolby Vision ready at 30HZ. Any idea on how to get it back? It's not an option in the Nvidia Shield "Display" so I'm trying to find out how to correct. Something to do with EDID (which shows "Auto") but maybe not 2.1 HDMI?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Tried the Vertex2. I gotta say - - a major, major PITA. HDMI cables sticking out and no remote to navigate settings. I'm pretty technically saavy but this was one of the worst purchases (on its way back to Amazon) that I've ever made. Glad you folks like yours. I'll have to live with the stock setting options or see if they can be improved without the HD Fury hack. I still don't know if we've ever gotten Dave's settings for just the T1 International WITHOUT the HD Fury. That would be nice to try.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Tried the Vertex2. I gotta say - - a major, major PITA. HDMI cables sticking out and no remote to navigate settings. I'm pretty technically saavy but this was one of the worst purchases (on its way back to Amazon) that I've ever made. Glad you folks like yours. I'll have to live with the stock setting options or see if they can be improved without the HD Fury hack. I still don't know if we've ever gotten Dave's settings for just the T1 International WITHOUT the HD Fury. That would be nice to try.


Don't they have settings posted from the event? I would presume that would be what comes from the event as well...obviously every room is different but a baseline calibrated setting would be nice to have for people who buy the projector?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Ha! While trying to get DV at 60HZ I experimented with turning HDR off. The projector came alive with colors and depth detail I’ve never seen before with my NVidia Shield Pro. I can actually see the Sandman on Netflix now. I feel like I’ve accidentally discovered electricity. Bye bye DV!


----------



## Ricoflashback

No HDR or DV. Just Ultra 4K. What a difference! Not even totally dark, yet.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Ricoflashback said:


> No HDR or DV. Just Ultra 4K. What a difference! Not even totally dark, yet.
> 
> View attachment 3319613


I have just been using the SDR setting on the ATV4, and avoiding HDR all together. I find the current crop of excellent projectors, both UST and standard long throw, look Much better with HDR NOT being used.....In most instances HDR looks to dark regardless of settings.
I haven't used a HD FURY device, so perhaps my observations would be totally different, but for time being SDR works for me.
Cheers...


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> No HDR or DV. Just Ultra 4K. What a difference! Not even totally dark, yet.
> 
> View attachment 3319613


What screen are you using?


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> What screen are you using?


An “El Cheapo“ WEMAX 100“ UST ALR screen that I picked up from Amazon Prime days for $399.00. I’m sure a Pet Crystal or other similar screen would be even better. The key for me is standard SDR and bypassing DV and HDR altogether. That seems to really unlock the color gamut on the International T1.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Tried the Vertex2. I gotta say - - a major, major PITA. HDMI cables sticking out and no remote to navigate settings. I'm pretty technically saavy but this was one of the worst purchases (on its way back to Amazon) that I've ever made. Glad you folks like yours. I'll have to live with the stock setting options or see if they can be improved without the HD Fury hack. I still don't know if we've ever gotten Dave's settings for just the T1 International WITHOUT the HD Fury. That would be nice to try.


Did you find the web config page for the Vertex2? That's the way to configure any of the HDFurry products. There's way too many options and settings that you can change to do it by remote or on unit. It's asking to be frustrated doing it that way.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> An “El Cheapo“ WEMAX 100“ UST ALR screen that I picked up from Amazon Prime days for $399.00. I’m sure a Pet Crystal or other similar screen would be even better. The key for me is standard SDR and bypassing DV and HDR altogether. That seems to really unlock the color gamut on the International T1.


It’s fine being cheap price, but how does it work for you? Do you think it’s GOOD enough? Or you can tell it’s like badly made type material?


----------



## Bloobat

Looked for a related thread in the deals forum but none exists and I'm not posting a deal so hope this is within the rules...

Basically Formovie is now refusing to honour the super early bird pricing that was on their website until a couple days ago. It was $2699 and is now $3500... I can't afford the increase so it's more than a little disappointing that they expired the old offer without warning and while there were still ~50 units left in stock. You'd have thought that could just issue a single use coupon or something (especially as they seemed to be having issues taking payments on monday when I tried to buy it)...

I can find the Fengmi T1 version for a similar price but am I right in thinking we can't just flash the firmware etc to the global version? 

Thanks


----------



## RickMes

Bloobat said:


> Basically Formovie is now refusing to honour the super early bird pricing that was on their website until a couple days ago. It was $2699 and is now $3500... I can't afford the increase so it's more than a little disappointing that they expired the old offer without warning and while there were still ~50 units left in stock.


Sorry to hear that you missed the early bird, specially if it was due to payment issues on their part. They actually had a week/days and then hour counter till the end of the funding campaign. I kept checking back the page hoping that they would dispatch the pre-orders as soon as the event ended.
Anyway, pay attention to their page as you can still find a special coupon for an added discount.

In relation to flashing the firmware, from what I've read I don't think that is possible because the hardware is not exactly the same.

Best of luck!


----------



## Bloobat

RickMes said:


> Sorry to hear that you missed the early bird, specially if it was due to payment issues on their part. They actually had a week/days and then hour counter till the end of the funding campaign. I kept checking back the page hoping that they would dispatch the pre-orders as soon as the event ended.
> Anyway, pay attention to their page as you can still find a special coupon for an added discount.
> 
> In relation to flashing the firmware, from what I've read I don't think that is possible because the hardware is not exactly the same.
> 
> Best of luck!


Ah damn I didn't even clock the countdown when I was looking at it! I've sent a follow up email in the hope they might honour it... The coupon brings it down a bit but still 600 USD higher than early bird  

They also said to wait for future sales, but I can't see it going back down to the previous figure anytime soon, surely? Disappointing re firmware flashing


----------



## RickMes

Bloobat said:


> Ah damn I didn't even clock the countdown when I was looking at it! I've sent a follow up email in the hope they might honour it... The coupon brings it down a bit but still 600 USD higher than early bird
> 
> They also said to wait for future sales, but I can't see it going back down to the previous figure anytime soon, surely? Disappointing re firmware flashing


Maybe you can opt to get the T1 instead. I am not sure about all the differences, but I think most of its issues have been resolved with firmware updates and I use the "Projectivy Launcher" to further enhance it, though I am not the best one to get into specifics about it.


----------



## Bloobat

RickMes said:


> Maybe you can opt to get the T1 instead. I am not sure about all the differences, but I think most of its issues have been resolved with firmware updates and I use the "Projectivy Launcher" to further enhance it, though I am not the best one to get into specifics about it.


 Fair point, is the 4k Cinema model significantly inferior? (Cinema in your home). Their naming system is so weird but from what I can find online that model does appear to support 3d? Just has a slightly lower brightness rating and no built in B+W speakers (I'll be using externals anyway). Anyone used that model?

EDIT: actually it's just a C2 international version isn't it?


----------



## Demetri Zuev

I have finally switched my C2 to Theater and launched the projector, however my remote seems to be dead, so I can't even perform the basic setup. I went through 3 sets of batteries that I know for sure do work with my other remotes and nothing. Has anyone else encountered this? Is there maybe some procedure to pair the remote with the projector since it's bluetooth?


----------



## Sonny Red

Bloobat said:


> Ah damn I didn't even clock the countdown when I was looking at it! I've sent a follow up email in the hope they might honour it... The coupon brings it down a bit but still 600 USD higher than early bird
> 
> They also said to wait for future sales, but I can't see it going back down to the previous figure anytime soon, surely? Disappointing re firmware flashing


Sorry for you but you clearly can’t blame them. It was crystal clear that the super early price would and when the campaign ended last Monday.

That’s why I even preordered it on the first day it was launched on the 14th of July as I was not sure that I would be able to order it later at 2499$ (2699 - 200$ VIP). 

The street price is supposed to be 3999$ so 3299$ is still better. I am not sure the price will go down again anytime soon.


----------



## Bloobat

Sonny Red said:


> Sorry for you but you clearly can’t blame them. It was crystal clear that the super early price would and when the campaign ended last Monday.
> 
> That’s why I even preordered it on the first day it was launched on the 14th of July as I was not sure that I would be able to order it later at 2499$ (2699 - 200$ VIP).
> 
> The street price is supposed to be 3999$ so 3299$ is still better. I am not sure the price will go down again anytime soon.


Wow not sure how you got the coupon to apply to the early bird price, when I tried it it said not applicable (So would have cost me the 2699). $2499 is a great price! tbf if they won't honour the 2699 for me I will just wait for the price to inevitably come down and delay my new setup. Going off price history of previous products I'd expect it to hit 2500-2600 (hopefully lower) by black friday 

Would love to have supported projectorscreen but am UK based unfortunately.

EDIT: also worth stating that yes I should have seen the countdown timer, but I honestly did try to buy it while it was still showing in stock and active and the final checkout page just wouldn't let me click through (tried refreshing and everything).


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> It’s fine being cheap price, but how does it work for you? Do you think it’s GOOD enough? Or you can tell it’s like badly made type material?


The material is fine. In fact, I was very surprised at the quality and how well the frame can be adjusted once on the brackets. It’s a very smooth surface with no visual artifacts. I had it professionally installed so that really helped. Since we’re renting and I can only fit a 100” screen as opposed to a 120” screen that I want - I decided to buy the WEMAX to tide me over until we move. The screen works well at night and somewhat passable in the daytime. I don‘t think any PJ will look good in the daytime with light pouring in and in a room without proper shades/shutters for light control. But it significantly beats a bare wall. No question about that. 

Stewart is coming out with a new UST offering and I’d look at a screen with a higher gain than .6 - which is what the WEMAX and many other UST ALR screens are at. I’d also look for a larger, black velvet frame to absorb any overscan and cut down on any reflections. The colors and pop plus the black floor is really unbelievable at this price for the International T1. I made a comment before about how the picture can look like you’re right there during the video capture. I’ve determined that it’s not the soap opera effect - it’s just that you are hyper aware of the colors and hues during every scene. The various shades of colors in a bar with the bottles, nature scenes and clothing colors that really stand out with this PJ.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> Did you find the web config page for the Vertex2? That's the way to configure any of the HDFurry products. There's way too many options and settings that you can change to do it by remote or on unit. It's asking to be frustrated doing it that way.


Honestly, once I turned off HDR/DV with my Nvidia Shield Pro, it became game, set and match without the need for the HDFury. I’m extremely happy with the “out of the box” picture with some tweaking. If anybody has the Nvidia Shield Pro - try turning off HDR and see what a huge difference in makes in the color pop when streaming. I don’t have a 4K Blu-ray player and am very content with plain old Blu-ray with my vintage OPPO 103 player that seamlessly handles a disc or files from storage for playback.


----------



## Fox&304

I'm wondering about disabling Dolby Vision also. I have to do some further testing, but on 1st impression it seems that there is a loss of global light output when in DV compared to HDR/SDR.
Anybody has the same impression?


----------



## Sonny Red

Bloobat said:


> Wow not sure how you got the coupon to apply to the early bird price, when I tried it it said not applicable (So would have cost me the 2699). $2499 is a great price! tbf if they won't honour the 2699 for me I will just wait for the price to inevitably come down and delay my new setup. Going off price history of previous products I'd expect it to hit 2500-2600 (hopefully lower) by black friday
> 
> Would love to have supported projectorscreen but am UK based unfortunately.
> 
> EDIT: also worth stating that yes I should have seen the countdown timer, but I honestly did try to buy it while it was still showing in stock and active and the final checkout page just wouldn't let me click through (tried refreshing and everything).


First the coupon did not work. I had to contact them via Messenger and on their Facebook page to tell them, then it worked.


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> The settings should be the same on the Vertex2 and VRRoom for this. I use a Diva and they're the same on it. I'm still using Dave's settings from a few pages back for the most part. I've only tweaked the contrast and brightness a little using a test pattern video. I'm hoping to have time before the weekend to play with the picture settings a little more.
> 
> It looks like the Vertex2 does the 1080p to 4k scaling. From the product page: Upscale port TX0: FHD 1080p & 2K to UHD 2160p & 4K/DCI.
> 
> @Dave Harper do you have preferred settings for the HDFury scaler? I know you have better knowledge than I do on a lot of the settings in one.


No I don’t use the scaling function on it, sorry. 



Mikenificent1 said:


> In Al Griffin’s review he mentions the unit was on loan from ProjectionScreen.com and he purposely cleared out all the calibration settings


I saw that! 

He never took it with him though. He just tested in our facility. 



Ricoflashback said:


> Tried the Vertex2. I gotta say - - a major, major PITA. HDMI cables sticking out and no remote to navigate settings. I'm pretty technically saavy but this was one of the worst purchases (on its way back to Amazon) that I've ever made. Glad you folks like yours. I'll have to live with the stock setting options or see if they can be improved without the HD Fury hack. I still don't know if we've ever gotten Dave's settings for just the T1 International WITHOUT the HD Fury. That would be nice to try.


You’re supposed to use the web GUI. To each his own I guess, but many people buy this to do the same type of job as an ultra expensive video processor like the Envy or Lumagen, so it’s a real bargain and one of the best purchases you can make to improve image quality. 

It’s designed to be tucked away connected to your network, out of sight, accessible from your smart phone or laptop. 



Ricoflashback said:


> Ha! While trying to get DV at 60HZ I experimented with turning HDR off. The projector came alive with colors and depth detail I’ve never seen before with my NVidia Shield Pro. I can actually see the Sandman on Netflix now. I feel like I’ve accidentally discovered electricity. Bye bye DV!





Ricoflashback said:


> An “El Cheapo“ WEMAX 100“ UST ALR screen that I picked up from Amazon Prime days for $399.00. I’m sure a Pet Crystal or other similar screen would be even better. The key for me is standard SDR and bypassing DV and HDR altogether. That seems to really unlock the color gamut on the International T1.


Have you made sure that the colors aren’t being overblown from BT709 to it’s native color gamut near full BT2020? I can tell you if you leave color gamut setting on Auto then that’s what it’s doing and you’re getting fake cartoonish over saturated colors that are far from natural. You have to turn that setting to ON manually for it to actually use the proper color gamut. 

When setup right I can guarantee you LLDV in this unit will smoke the SDR settings!



Fox&304 said:


> I'm wondering about disabling Dolby Vision also. I have to do some further testing, but on 1st impression it seems that there is a loss of global light output when in DV compared to HDR/SDR.
> Anybody has the same impression?


Yes when you use the internal DV mode then it is a lot darker and dull. I don’t like their DV implementation at all. That’s why I use the HDFury Vertex2 to have the sources send LLDV Dolby Vision with HDR10 metadata to it so that the ForMovie uses it’s HDR10 mode instead but I still get the benefits of DV.


----------



## Ricoflashback

For Dave Harper:

*You’re supposed to use the web GUI. To each his own I guess, but many people buy this to do the same type of job as an ultra expensive video processor like the Envy or Lumagen, so it’s a real bargain and one of the best purchases you can make to improve image quality.

*It’s designed to be tucked away connected to your network, out of sight, accessible from your smart phone or laptop.

*Have you made sure that the colors aren’t being overblown from BT709 to it’s native color gamut near full BT2020? I can tell you if you leave color gamut setting on Auto then that’s what it’s doing and you’re getting fake cartoonish over saturated colors that are far from natural. You have to turn that setting to ON manually for it to actually use the proper color gamut.

*When setup right I can guarantee you LLDV in this unit will smoke the SDR settings!

*Yes when you use the internal DV mode then it is a lot darker and dull. I don’t like their DV implementation at all. That’s why I use the HDFury Vertex2 to have the sources send LLDV Dolby Vision with HDR10 metadata to it so that the ForMovie uses it’s HDR10 mode instead but I still get the benefits of DV.

*Response:* Color gamut is set to "ON." I don't have any way to neatly "tuck away" the Vertex2. I'd love to see the comparison of the "smoked" picture with HD Fury versus SDR with proper calibration. Lastly - I doubt the HD Fury would rival a MadVR Envy Pro but that's a personal opinion as the Pro does much more than what the Vertex2 does. 

You're a "Pro" in this industry, Dave. For a novice like me, a "set it and forget it" guy - - I don't want to go through a couple root canals to get a picture that can be marginally (my subjective opinion) better with the HD Fury than the incredible picture I get with plain old SDR.

P.S. - with my older, dedicated theater room setup - - it would have been much easier to hide the device on my "rack" and connect, via ethernet, to my network. With downsizing and a simple stand (for now) - it's just not possible to hide a anything.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> For Dave Harper:
> 
> *You’re supposed to use the web GUI. To each his own I guess, but many people buy this to do the same type of job as an ultra expensive video processor like the Envy or Lumagen, so it’s a real bargain and one of the best purchases you can make to improve image quality.
> 
> *It’s designed to be tucked away connected to your network, out of sight, accessible from your smart phone or laptop.
> 
> *Have you made sure that the colors aren’t being overblown from BT709 to it’s native color gamut near full BT2020? I can tell you if you leave color gamut setting on Auto then that’s what it’s doing and you’re getting fake cartoonish over saturated colors that are far from natural. You have to turn that setting to ON manually for it to actually use the proper color gamut.
> 
> *When setup right I can guarantee you LLDV in this unit will smoke the SDR settings!
> 
> *Yes when you use the internal DV mode then it is a lot darker and dull. I don’t like their DV implementation at all. That’s why I use the HDFury Vertex2 to have the sources send LLDV Dolby Vision with HDR10 metadata to it so that the ForMovie uses it’s HDR10 mode instead but I still get the benefits of DV.
> 
> *Response:* Color gamut is set to "ON." I don't have any way to neatly "tuck away" the Vertex2. I'd love to see the comparison of the "smoked" picture with HD Fury versus SDR with proper calibration. Lastly - I doubt the HD Fury would rival a MadVR Envy Pro but that's a personal opinion as the Pro does much more than what the Vertex2 does.
> 
> You're a "Pro" in this industry, Dave. For a novice like me, a "set it and forget it" guy - - I don't want to go through a couple root canals to get a picture that can be marginally (my subjective opinion) better with the HD Fury than the incredible picture I get with plain old SDR.


You don't have to jump through hoops at all to get good LLDV. It's really only a few clicks away, plus I shared some great settings earlier.

As I said, to each his own, but it is well known that increased color gamut and dynamic range are two of the best image improvements to come along in the last decade, so I personally choose to take advantage of that.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

Demetri Zuev said:


> I have finally switched my C2 to Theater and launched the projector, however my remote seems to be dead, so I can't even perform the basic setup. I went through 3 sets of batteries that I know for sure do work with my other remotes and nothing. Has anyone else encountered this? Is there maybe some procedure to pair the remote with the projector since it's bluetooth?


I had the same problem when I first tried to pair my remote. You need to be extremely close with the remote and the projector....with in a few inches of the Right side of the projector. 
You may need to also try moving the remote back and forth while pressing the two buttons shown in the set up video. 
Cheers.....


----------



## rooterha

Ricoflashback said:


> For Dave Harper:
> 
> *You’re supposed to use the web GUI. To each his own I guess, but many people buy this to do the same type of job as an ultra expensive video processor like the Envy or Lumagen, so it’s a real bargain and one of the best purchases you can make to improve image quality.
> 
> *It’s designed to be tucked away connected to your network, out of sight, accessible from your smart phone or laptop.
> 
> *Have you made sure that the colors aren’t being overblown from BT709 to it’s native color gamut near full BT2020? I can tell you if you leave color gamut setting on Auto then that’s what it’s doing and you’re getting fake cartoonish over saturated colors that are far from natural. You have to turn that setting to ON manually for it to actually use the proper color gamut.
> 
> *When setup right I can guarantee you LLDV in this unit will smoke the SDR settings!
> 
> *Yes when you use the internal DV mode then it is a lot darker and dull. I don’t like their DV implementation at all. That’s why I use the HDFury Vertex2 to have the sources send LLDV Dolby Vision with HDR10 metadata to it so that the ForMovie uses it’s HDR10 mode instead but I still get the benefits of DV.
> 
> *Response:* Color gamut is set to "ON." I don't have any way to neatly "tuck away" the Vertex2. I'd love to see the comparison of the "smoked" picture with HD Fury versus SDR with proper calibration. Lastly - I doubt the HD Fury would rival a MadVR Envy Pro but that's a personal opinion as the Pro does much more than what the Vertex2 does.
> 
> You're a "Pro" in this industry, Dave. For a novice like me, a "set it and forget it" guy - - I don't want to go through a couple root canals to get a picture that can be marginally (my subjective opinion) better with the HD Fury than the incredible picture I get with plain old SDR.
> 
> P.S. - with my older, dedicated theater room setup - - it would have been much easier to hide the device on my "rack" and connect, via ethernet, to my network. With downsizing and a simple stand (for now) - it's just not possible to hide a anything.


I know it seems like a lot at first but it's really not that hard. You just connect the HDFury to your network, go to the web address and copy the settings from the screenshots Dave posted... and done


----------



## Ricoflashback

rooterha said:


> I know it seems like a lot at first but it's really not that hard. You just connect the HDFury to your network, go to the web address and copy the settings from the screenshots Dave posted... and done


Yes - I see and appreciate that. But I've got no place to hide the HD Fury Vertex2 and since it's in our small living room, the aesthetics are pretty bad. But like I said - - I'd love to see the "smoked" shots of HD Fury versus SDR for comparison.


----------



## rooterha

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - I see and appreciate that. But I've got no place to hide the HD Fury Vertex2 and since it's in our small living room, the aesthetics are pretty bad. But like I said - - I'd love to see the "smoked" shots of HD Fury versus SDR for comparison.


Yeah - I wouldn't want it in the living room either unless I had a stand that would hide it well. 

I do think my Theater looks AMAZING with Dave's settings and I don't think SDR looks as good from the tests I've done with an Apple 4k. Wish I was better at taking pics so I could do a comparison.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rooterha said:


> Yeah - I wouldn't want it in the living room either unless I had a stand that would hide it well.
> 
> I do think my Theater looks AMAZING with Dave's settings and I don't think SDR looks as good from the tests I've done with an Apple 4k. Wish I was better at taking pics so I could do a comparison.


And I wonder if there is a difference in streaming quality (the majority of what I watch in addition to Cable sports) with the Nvidia Shield Pro versus the Apple 4K. I tried the later but didn't like the picture and the interface (remote) was more difficult than the Nvidia Shield Pro with it's backlit remote. Funny - I can use the T1 remote for most of the functions for my Nvidia streamer. That was a pleasant surprise! For now, I'm really pleased with the SDR/Ultra 4K picture quality and I might consider the HD Fury again when we move to a bigger house. Right now, I'm really constrained on what I can do. But I'd rather have the T1 and a projector than be without. That was a major withdrawal with significant depression symptoms. It was bad enough losing my home theater with 11.1.4 audio. The T1 to the rescue.


----------



## Fox&304

Dave Harper said:


> Yes when you use the internal DV mode then it is a lot darker and dull. I don’t like their DV implementation at all. That’s why I use the HDFury Vertex2 to have the sources send LLDV Dolby Vision with HDR10 metadata to it so that the ForMovie uses it’s HDR10 mode instead but I still get the benefits of DV.


Yeah it seems weird, it's both dull and completely blown out in the highlights. 
Also, do you have two DV modes ? Dolby Vision Dark and Dolby Vision Bright? I saw elsewhere that those were supposed to not be there on the Theater version, and only on the T1? Because I have them on mine ...


----------



## DesertDog

MRJAZZZ said:


> I had the same problem when I first tried to pair my remote. You need to be extremely close with the remote and the projector....with in a few inches of the Right side of the projector.
> You may need to also try moving the remote back and forth while pressing the two buttons shown in the set up video.
> Cheers.....


@Demetri Zuev, I was just going to reply to you with the same thing. I went through 3 sets of batteries too and thought mine was dead at first. Like MrJazzz said you have to hold it right next to the right side of the unit to pair. I was trying from about 2' back (basically just standing behind) and it wouldn't work until I got close. It feel like they have the BT power turned all the way down when pairing.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> No I don’t use the scaling function on it, sorry.


No problem. I've never used it either. I always let the TV do it since I had read that quality was about the same. So I was mainly curious if you were using it due to having found it to be better.


----------



## Fox&304

Can anyone check in Dolby Vision the Groot short from Disney+ (the one where he takes a bath) at 1:15 and tell me if you manage to have some details on the cucumber he puts over his eyes ? It’s absolutely blown out on my Theater, and can’t get it back (I’ve check on my Oled and there is some detail there)


----------



## DesertDog

Fox&304 said:


> Can anyone check in Dolby Vision the Groot short from Disney+ (the one where he takes a bath) at 1:15 and tell me if you manage to have some details on the cucumber he puts over his eyes ? It’s absolutely blown out on my Theater, and can’t get it back (I’ve check on my Oled and there is some detail there)


Disney doesn't get my money so I can't check that specific scene  but your picture looks similar to the blowout I was seeing with For All Mankind and some other DV content. My fix for it was switching to Dave's HDFurry based settings. I already had a Diva though to do it.


----------



## Fox&304

Fox&304 said:


> Can anyone check in Dolby Vision the Groot short from Disney+ (the one where he takes a bath) at 1:15 and tell me if you manage to have some details on the cucumber he puts over his eyes ? It’s absolutely blown out on my Theater, and can’t get it back (I’ve check on my Oled and there is some detail there)
> View attachment 3319981


Mmmmhhh I think I’ve found the culprit. Tried everything in the settings and I’d say it’s the « Dolby Vision Screen Size / Gain » setting that makes this go bad. I project on a 100 inches screen with supposedly 0.6 gain ( it’s the BenQ UST screen ), and it seems those settings are not good when filled on the PJ.

edit : put some extreme values to check ( 60 inches and 2.0 Gain) and it seems it’s a good culprit …


----------



## Fox&304

Haha? Just saw that the cover image of the short movie is actually exactly that scene. And of course plenty of detail on the cucumbers. That’s weird. Of course there it’s not in DV so it’s a different story entirely …


----------



## JereyWolf

Fox&304 said:


> Haha? Just saw that the cover image of the short movie is actually exactly that scene. And of course plenty of detail on the cucumbers. That’s weird. Of course there it’s not in DV so it’s a different story entirely …
> View attachment 3319988


So how does that scene look in SDR?


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> As I said, to each his own, but it is well known that increased color gamut and dynamic range are two of the best image improvements to come along in the last decade, so I personally choose to take advantage of that.


If a display is limited to less than 100 nits does the dynamic range of HDR have any meaningful impact?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Plain old cable picture. Stunning.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> The material is fine. In fact, I was very surprised at the quality and how well the frame can be adjusted once on the brackets. It’s a very smooth surface with no visual artifacts. I had it professionally installed so that really helped. Since we’re renting and I can only fit a 100” screen as opposed to a 120” screen that I want - I decided to buy the WEMAX to tide me over until we move. The screen works well at night and somewhat passable in the daytime. I don‘t think any PJ will look good in the daytime with light pouring in and in a room without proper shades/shutters for light control. But it significantly beats a bare wall. No question about that.
> 
> Stewart is coming out with a new UST offering and I’d look at a screen with a higher gain than .6 - which is what the WEMAX and many other UST ALR screens are at. I’d also look for a larger, black velvet frame to absorb any overscan and cut down on any reflections. The colors and pop plus the black floor is really unbelievable at this price for the International T1. I made a comment before about how the picture can look like you’re right there during the video capture. I’ve determined that it’s not the soap opera effect - it’s just that you are hyper aware of the colors and hues during every scene. The various shades of colors in a bar with the bottles, nature scenes and clothing colors that really stand out with this PJ.


Thanks for all this info! I am looking for a 120" screen. The more I hear of everyone just saying how this projector (and many others) are just not able to compete during the day, the more I feel maybe getting something like a Vividstorm screen with an OLED down the line behind it to solve that problem.

I haven't seen too many UST ALR screens with a higher gain than .6, but the idea of black velvet frames is interesting one. Any idea what brand has that? Or what you would be looking at next?

Thoughts on Vividstorm?


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Thanks for all this info! I am looking for a 120" screen. The more I hear of everyone just saying how this projector (and many others) are just not able to compete during the day, the more I feel maybe getting something like a Vividstorm screen with an OLED down the line behind it to solve that problem.
> 
> I haven't seen too many UST ALR screens with a higher gain than .6, but the idea of black velvet frames is interesting one. Any idea what brand has that? Or what you would be looking at next?
> 
> Thoughts on Vividstorm?


That would be the ultimate solution. I had a similar setup with a regular throw projector and a drop down, 100” electronic screen with a 75” TV on the wall behind it. My only concern with Vividstorm would be any mechanical failure as it’s different than a drop down screen. But - it would certainly be easier to pickup and repair or replace. Maybe some Vividstorm users can advise on the warranty and their experiences with that screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> the idea of black velvet frames is interesting one. Any idea what brand has that?


Spectra Projection has a black velvet frame on their UST ALR screen


----------



## DunMunro

Monoprojos has an updated review:









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Spectra Projection has a black velvet frame on their UST ALR screen


As does SilverTicket and the new Stewart WallScreen UST offering. I'm sure it will be pricey and I'm looking forward to see if you can get your hands on this frame, Brian. Probably a gray matte material? Customizable screen gain from what I read, as well.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> As does SilverTicket as well as the new Stewart WallScreen UST offering. I'm sure it will be pricey and I'm looking forward to see if you can get your hands on this frame, Brian. Probably a gray matte material? Customizable screen gain from what I read, as well.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3320234


I will be getting the Stewart with the Greymatte 0.7. The just finished the extrusions of their new frame so it may be a couple of weeks before I get it.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Does anyone here have a 150" screen paired with their International T1 or earlier T1? Or even a 130" to 120" screen size?

How is the image? Still sharp? And, brightness? I'm curious as our next move will be in a place that can accommodate a larger screen. I'd like to go as big as I can without losing sharpness, if possible.


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Spectra Projection has a black velvet frame on their UST ALR screen





Ricoflashback said:


> As does SilverTicket and the new Stewart WallScreen UST offering. I'm sure it will be pricey and I'm looking forward to see if you can get your hands on this frame, Brian. Probably a gray matte material? Customizable screen gain from what I read, as well.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3320234


The problem is the cost of Spectravision VS a motorized screen like vividstorm. It just doesn't register. If Spectra was cheaper, I would jump on it. Or maybe one of those new screens talked about above? The SilverTicket and the new Stewart WallScreen UST offering?

Will those be cheaper or even pricier?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Does anyone here have a 150" screen paired with their International T1 or earlier T1? Or even a 130" to 120" screen size?
> 
> How is the image? Still sharp? And, brightness? I'm curious as our next move will be in a place that can accommodate a larger screen. I'd like to go as big as I can without losing sharpness, if possible.


120" is just as sharp as 100"; haven't gone bigger yet.

I do have a sample of the Spectra Projection 150" lenticular screen on the way, but they have to splice surfaces together to make it that large and there will be a seam. Anxious to see how noticeable it is with and without projecting onto. In the images they sent me it looks like you cant see it all while projecting.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> The problem is the cost of Spectravision VS a motorized screen like vividstorm. It just doesn't register. If Spectra was cheaper, I would jump on it. Or maybe one of those new screens talked about above? The SilverTicket and the new Stewart WallScreen UST offering?
> 
> Will those be cheaper or even pricier?


The trade off for Vividstorm is lower ALR % & black levels, less tensioning, edge curl, etc. That all being said, for the money there is no better motorized option.

Wallscreen UST with Greymatte 0.7will be 1.5 - 2x the cost of the same size Spectra and is not ambient light rejecting. If you want a similar ALR surface to the spectra, you need to go with their Blackhawk UST surface which is even more expensive than the Greymatte


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> The trade off for Vividstorm is lower ALR % & black levels, less tensioning, edge curl, etc. That all being said, for the money there is no better motorized option.
> 
> Wallscreen UST with Greymatte 0.7will be 1.5 - 2x the cost of the same size Spectra and is not ambient light rejecting. If you want a similar ALR surface to the spectra, you need to go with their Blackhawk UST surface which is even more expensive than the Greymatte


I'm not sure of the differences in ALR material. I believe it's all based on the same lenticular principle. And in the daytime - - I don't believe any of the ALR screens are very easy to watch with light pouring in. Maybe a fresnel screen is best for daytime viewing but at night, the dreaded "halos" appear on the ceiling. I believe the OP talked about an OLED TV behind a screen like the Vividstorm for daytime viewing. So at night, the Vividstorm should do fine with black levels.

Wasn't your recent UST event evaluated in a mostly light controlled environment? Since you only had one screen (the Spectra) there was no comparison of screens - just projectors. It would be interesting to see a comparison of screens with a UST projector during the daytime. I suspect the result would only be the best of a bad situation, viewing wise.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I'm not sure of the differences in ALR material. I believe it's all based on the same lenticular principle. And in the daytime - - I don't believe any of the ALR screens are very easy to watch with light pouring in. Maybe a fresnel screen is best for daytime viewing but at night, the dreaded "halos" appear on the ceiling. I believe the OP talked about an OLED TV behind a screen like the Vividstorm for daytime viewing. So at night, the Vividstorm should do fine with black levels.
> 
> Wasn't your recent UST event evaluated in a mostly light controlled environment? Since you only had one screen (the Spectra) there was no comparison of screens - just projectors. It would be interesting to see a comparison of screens with a UST projector during the daytime.


Event was both lights on (harsh ceiling fluorescents) as well as lights off.
It was a competition between the projectors, so having them all use the same screen was obviously important.
Here are some pics I've posted about a dozen times in various threads showing lights on vs lights off on several popular "clr" materials.
Just because they are base don same lenticular principle does not mean they are all created equally.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Event was both lights on (harsh ceiling fluorescents) as well as lights off.
> It was a competition between the projectors, so having them all use the same screen was obviously important.
> Here are some pics I've posted about a dozen times in various threads showing lights on vs lights off on several popular "clr" materials.
> Just because they are base don same lenticular principle does not mean they are all created equally.
> View attachment 3320285
> 
> 
> View attachment 3320287


Thanks, Brian. In your opinion - - what ALR screen do you believe provides the best picture in the daytime? It's hard for me to see differences with small sample sizes.


----------



## Movie_geek

ProjectionHead said:


> The trade off for Vividstorm is lower ALR % & black levels, less tensioning, edge curl, etc. That all being said, for the money there is no better motorized option.
> 
> Wallscreen UST with Greymatte 0.7will be 1.5 - 2x the cost of the same size Spectra and is not ambient light rejecting. If you want a similar ALR surface to the spectra, you need to go with their Blackhawk UST surface which is even more expensive than the Greymatte



If you're limited to a floor-rising screen and will only be using it in a light-controlled room. What would you look at other than the Vividstorm? I noticed the Elite FTE121XH2-CLR3 Kestrel Tab-Tension on your site which I don't remember seeing before.... it looks like it has a slightly higher gain and the cost is similar but I don't know how the build quality compares etc. 

If you were limited to floor rising for a UST what would you put in your room?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Thanks, Brian. In your opinion - - what ALR screen do you believe provides the best picture in the daytime? It's hard for me to see differences with small sample sizes.


The Spectra Projection, Elite DarkUST, Stewart Blackhawk UST and SI Short Throw are all pretty dang good and offer the best black levels and highest ALR %.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Movie_geek said:


> If you're limited to a floor-rising screen and will only be using it in a light-controlled room. What would you look at other than the Vividstorm? I noticed the Elite FTE121XH2-CLR3 Kestrel Tab-Tension on your site which I don't remember seeing before.... it looks like it has a slightly higher gain and the cost is similar but I don't know how the build quality compares etc.
> 
> If you were limited to floor rising for a UST what would you put in your room?


If price was no object, the Elite Kestrel DarkUST: Elite FTE120H2-DST Kestrel Tab-Tension DarkUST 120 diag. (58.8x104.6) - 16:9 - DarkStar UST - 0.6 Gain - Elite Screens Elite-FTE120H2-DST
The Vividstorm us more than 50% less expensive then that DarkUST option and along same price as the CLR3 option, but offers better ALR & black levels: Vividstorm Motorized Floor Rising ALR Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throw Projectors 120 Inch - VSDSTUST120H - Vividstorm Vividstorm-VSDSTUST120H

While the DarkUST Kestrel is better, I wouldn't say it is nearly 2x better


----------



## JRock3x8

I just read this entire thread over the course of two days - god bless Brian and Dave's patience with some of these questions and comments. The internet does not deserve you.


----------



## Maison

Hello
Very interest in this unit. How is the fan noise? Has anyone or could someone measure the db? We would be sitting about 7-8ft away. Thank you.


----------



## g3m

I have a motorized tab-tensioned drop down ALR UST screen from Vividstorm and I can confirm that, although the price is good compared to the competition, there are some quality issues. I had to return my first one since it had a defect on the bottom of the screen. The second one developed slight vertical waves on the upper left and right side. You can see it clearly during scenes where it's white or pale (e.g., scene showing the sky). The waves seems to get worst with high humidity. Also, the wireless remote stopped working and I have to use the one that you need to physically connect. On the positive side, the image is very good to my eyes and their technical support answers questions very quickly by email (even during the weekend).


----------



## DesertDog

Movie_geek said:


> If you're limited to a floor-rising screen and will only be using it in a light-controlled room. What would you look at other than the Vividstorm? I noticed the Elite FTE121XH2-CLR3 Kestrel Tab-Tension on your site which I don't remember seeing before.... it looks like it has a slightly higher gain and the cost is similar but I don't know how the build quality compares etc.
> 
> If you were limited to floor rising for a UST what would you put in your room?


Take a look at ScreenPro too. I have their floor rising 120" and have been happy with it. It looks like it has the same mechanics as the Vividstorm but different screen material. The picture has been great looking. I'm hoping to be able to do some pictures and updates in my build thread and for a review.


----------



## Movie_geek

ProjectionHead said:


> If price was no object, the Elite Kestrel DarkUST: Elite FTE120H2-DST Kestrel Tab-Tension DarkUST 120 diag. (58.8x104.6) - 16:9 - DarkStar UST - 0.6 Gain - Elite Screens Elite-FTE120H2-DST
> The Vividstorm us more than 50% less expensive then that DarkUST option and along same price as the CLR3 option, but offers better ALR & black levels: Vividstorm Motorized Floor Rising ALR Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throw Projectors 120 Inch - VSDSTUST120H - Vividstorm Vividstorm-VSDSTUST120H
> 
> While the DarkUST Kestrel is better, I wouldn't say it is nearly 2x better


Thank you this is very helpful and is about where my head is that the Vividstorm isn't perfect (and reviews talking about problems with the tension mechanism are concerning) it is still one of the better "deals" for the price. 



DesertDog said:


> Take a look at ScreenPro too. I have their floor rising 120" and have been happy with it. It looks like it has the same mechanics as the Vividstorm but different screen material. The picture has been great looking. I'm hoping to be able to do some pictures and updates in my build thread and for a review.


Interesting I"ve never heard of this company. I'd love to see some pictures when you have them!


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> The Spectra Projection, Elite DarkUST, Stewart Blackhawk UST and SI Short Throw are all pretty dang good and offer the best black levels and highest ALR %.


Brian - do you have this screen? Maybe under a different name? The EPV Screens DarkStar® UST 2 eFinity states that it is a .8 gain. I do not see any other UST screens with this high of gain.

EPV Screens DarkStar® UST 2 eFinity Review - Projector Reviews


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Brian - do you have this screen? Maybe under a different name? The EPV Screens DarkStar® UST 2 eFinity states that it is a .8 gain. I do not see any other UST screens with this high of gain.
> 
> EPV Screens DarkStar® UST 2 eFinity Review - Projector Reviews


That is EPV which is their no-online, only through installer product. It is a much more expensive version of their regular offering which sometimes just means the frame is different. If its the same DarkUST 2 surface as their pro-frame, you can prob find it for a lot less $: Elite PFT123H-DS2 Pro Frame Thin DarkUST 2 - 123 diag.(60.2x107) - HDTV [16:9] - 0.8 - Elite Screens Elite-PFT123H-DS2
there are 2 reviews we have on this for that item; one is for that actual sku; the other looks like its the same series/frame but a different (better) surface

You can see the ALR/black levels of this screen in the image I posted earlier

tldr; higher gain lenticular screens have less ALR & worse black levels.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Take a look at ScreenPro too. I have their floor rising 120" and have been happy with it. It looks like it has the same mechanics as the Vividstorm but different screen material. The picture has been great looking. I'm hoping to be able to do some pictures and updates in my build thread and for a review.


We have a local customer who got an LSP9T from us but got a screen pro from alibaba. This was back in december 2020 so things may have changed from a quality/service perspective - but these are the pics he sent me...😱

_"The screen remains the issue, as I mentioned a day ago. Unfortunately, now to the point of no return. What should have been a simple fix to coil in the black drop a few inches, turned into a disaster as per the attached. I reached out to “Winnie” and crew, and she had me cut the tension line to salvage the screen. I expect to hear from her tonight but, I’m sure the end result will not be what I expect it to be, which is a clean set up. I thought putting up the screen over the summer would be the tough part but, that was simple enough to figure out however, there actual instructions and remote control system for lack of better words, sucks. The instructions say one thing however, their board reacts entirely backward. What should be clockwise, is counter-clockwise and so on. Enough of my rant…
With that said, considering the space in the ceiling is there, can you assist with options for an in-ceiling 120” screen unit? I’m already in the hole with this screen which is about to go straight to the landfill! Please be kind- LOL"_


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> We have a local customer who got an LSP9T from us but got a screen pro from alibaba. This was back in december 2020 so things may have changed from a quality/service perspective - but these are the pics he sent me...😱
> 
> _"The screen remains the issue, as I mentioned a day ago. Unfortunately, now to the point of no return. What should have been a simple fix to coil in the black drop a few inches, turned into a disaster as per the attached. I reached out to “Winnie” and crew, and she had me cut the tension line to salvage the screen. I expect to hear from her tonight but, I’m sure the end result will not be what I expect it to be, which is a clean set up. I thought putting up the screen over the summer would be the tough part but, that was simple enough to figure out however, there actual instructions and remote control system for lack of better words, sucks. The instructions say one thing however, their board reacts entirely backward. What should be clockwise, is counter-clockwise and so on. Enough of my rant…
> With that said, considering the space in the ceiling is there, can you assist with options for an in-ceiling 120” screen unit? I’m already in the hole with this screen which is about to go straight to the landfill! Please be kind- LOL"_


Yikes! Not sure if I got lucky or if they changed things up since then. I've had no issues with the mechanics on mine so far. Maybe it's a difference between their floor rising vs drop down. I'm 95% sure now that the case and mechanics as the Vividstorm floor rising. Everything down to the screw hole placement matches up from the Vividstorm specs I've found. Maybe after issues like with that customer they switched over to a different hardware supplier. 

I'll try to get a few pictures latter of mine. I'm still at work right now. Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like shots of.


----------



## Dave Harper

Fox&304 said:


> Yeah it seems weird, it's both dull and completely blown out in the highlights.
> Also, do you have two DV modes ? Dolby Vision Dark and Dolby Vision Bright? I saw elsewhere that those were supposed to not be there on the Theater version, and only on the T1? Because I have them on mine ...


I would have to check when I am back in NJ at the showroom, unless Brian or one of his loyal subjects wants to check before then. ;-)



JereyWolf said:


> If a display is limited to less than 100 nits does the dynamic range of HDR have any meaningful impact?


Not too much if you employ some Dynamic Tone Mapping you can achieve from devices like the HDFURY, Lumagen or MadVR. 



JRock3x8 said:


> I just read this entire thread over the course of two days - god bless Brian and Dave's patience with some of these questions and comments. The internet does not deserve you.




I actually believe I don’t deserve to be having this much fun, doing something I absolutely love!


----------



## clipghost

g3m said:


> I have a motorized tab-tensioned drop down ALR UST screen from Vividstorm and I can confirm that, although the price is good compared to the competition, there are some quality issues. I had to return my first one since it had a defect on the bottom of the screen. The second one developed slight vertical waves on the upper left and right side. You can see it clearly during scenes where it's white or pale (e.g., scene showing the sky). The waves seems to get worst with high humidity. Also, the wireless remote stopped working and I have to use the one that you need to physically connect. On the positive side, the image is very good to my eyes and their technical support answers questions very quickly by email (even during the weekend).


If you could do it all over again would you do Vividstorm? What was your goal getting motorized floor rising VS fixed?


----------



## 3sprit

DunMunro said:


> Monoprojos has an updated review:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


For him the image is too "soft".


----------



## kraine

It is an exceptional projector in many ways, but not in terms of sharpness.


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> For him the image is too "soft".


The projector on which he made the review was defective. He is supposed to update the review as he has calibrated one dozen of them by now. But he’s very busy so not able to do it right now


----------



## 3sprit

Sonny Red said:


> The projector on which he made the review was defective. He is supposed to update the review as he has calibrated one dozen of them by now. But he’s very busy so not able to do it right now


He updated the review. His opinion is this after he has calibrated many Theater.


----------



## 3sprit

For Kraine the C2 is better than the Theater and awards him two prizes.
Your opinion?
Would you buy the C2 or the Theater?
🤔🤷‍♂️🙂


----------



## Movie_geek

kraine said:


> It is an exceptional projector in many ways, but not in terms of sharpness.


Do your thoughts of the focus sharpness aligns with the perception of judges in the laser tv showdown?<image below>

Would you say your experience with the formovie is that it is less sharp than the PX1-PRO (or C2) but about on par with most other USTs like the AWOL or LSP9T? That is the impression I got from the updated review but it never hurts to ask.


----------



## ProjectionHead

There will be reviews coming from ProjectorCentral, ProjectorReviews and Chris Majestic in the next several weeks among others


----------



## g3m

clipghost said:


> If you could do it all over again would you do Vividstorm? What was your goal getting motorized floor rising VS fixed?


I do not have the floor rising version, I choose instead the 120" drop down version that you can mount on a wall or ceiling. I choose this version since it gave me more space under the screen for furniture compared to the floor rising version. Considering the choice of motorized VS fixed screen, there was a couple of considerations. Ease of setup, easier to move (that was actually useful since I had to do renovation in the room), ability to retract it (it's deployed in a family room). The price was also competitive VS other comparable 120" ALR UST fixed screens. I also saw a couple of reviewers and youtubers with the screen and they seemed to be satisfied. If I would have no issue with my Vividstorm screen, I would absolutely buy it again. Since I have a few as described in my last post, I would certainly shop around a bit more to considerer the new options on the market right now.


----------



## Demetri Zuev

Had a chance to watch a couple of films as well as rewatch some scenes from recent shows I watched on my C2 (Stranger Things) on the Theater. All I can say is wow, the colors on this thing are amazing, and I didn't even change one setting yet, just left them as is for now. People at Formovie really did their homework with this one, and I haven't yet noticed a reduction in sharpness that Gregory talked about in his review.

What I would like to ask again - has anyone developed a good settings profile for it yet?


----------



## kraine

Movie_geek said:


> Do your thoughts of the focus sharpness aligns with the perception of judges in the laser tv showdown?<image below>
> 
> Would you say your experience with the formovie is that it is less sharp than the PX1-PRO (or C2) but about on par with most other USTs like the AWOL or LSP9T? That is the impression I got from the updated review but it never hurts to ask.


I have tested almost all the
UST lasers on the market and if the 12 Formovie I have set so far had no focus defect, I can nevertheless compare them to their competitors 0.47 Xiaomi, Xgimi and others. This allows me to conclude that the
Theater is not the most prickly on the market. For this reason
that I keep a single Gold
Award.


----------



## Ricoflashback

kraine said:


> It is an exceptional projector in many ways, but not in terms of sharpness.


Gregory - a question on sharpness. With my previous single chip, bulb based projector (BenQ TK700STi,) I was able to get a razor sharp image using the sharpening settings with my Denon X6700 AVR. It was very noticeable with my Comcast cable box (1080p - not a 4K STB or an upscaled Comcast signal to 4K) and it made a big difference with the sharpness. Unfortunately, we are in a temporary apartment before we buy a house. So, I cannot hook up my previous theater setting. I wonder if that would make a difference. Still - even without the sharpness, the colors are spectacular as well as the black floor.


----------



## 3sprit

kraine said:


> Theater is not the most prickly on the market.


Could it be due to the "anti speckle" system?


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> I have tested almost all the
> UST lasers on the market and if the 12 Formovie I have set so far had no focus defect, I can nevertheless compare them to their competitors 0.47 Xiaomi, Xgimi and others. This allows me to conclude that the
> Theater is not the most prickly on the market. For this reason
> that I keep a single Gold
> Award.


But in the end you kept at home the Formovie Theater instead of the Xiaomi C2, didn’t you ? 
So it should mean that the Formovie is better than the Xiaomi C2 ?


----------



## Ricoflashback

When I toggle through the T1 settings, on "HDMI" - it's set to "Auto EDID" and grayed/blacked out. I cannot get 4K/60Hz with my Nvidia Shield Pro - only 4K/30Hz. Now, I do have HDR turned "off." I don't know if that makes any difference or not. Anyone with a Nvidia Shield Pro that can get 4K/60 Hz in the "Display Options" of the Shield Pro? I'm not sure that I can tell that much difference but it would be nice to know. Thx.

Are all the inputs on the HDMI able to provide HDMI 2.1?


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> Does anyone here have a 150" screen paired with their International T1 or earlier T1? Or even a 130" to 120" screen size?
> 
> How is the image? Still sharp? And, brightness? I'm curious as our next move will be in a place that can accommodate a larger screen. I'd like to go as big as I can without losing sharpness, if possible.


This is the T1 (Chinese model) on a Silver Ticket 150-in White Matte Screen (1.1 gain). Very sharp and bright in a light controlled room.


----------



## clipghost

God I keep going back and forth basically between doing the T1 with a fixed screen or a Vividstorm and throwing an OLED behind it. Anyone running a setup where they have a TV behind the projector?


----------



## Dave Harper

Movie_geek said:


> Do your thoughts of the focus sharpness aligns with the perception of judges in the laser tv showdown?
> 
> Would you say your experience with the formovie is that it is less sharp than the PX1-PRO (or C2) but about on par with most other USTs like the AWOL or LSP9T? That is the impression I got from the updated review but it never hurts to ask.


The AWOL is much sharper than the ForMovie. 



3sprit said:


> Could it be due to the "anti speckle" system?


That was my thought too. 



clipghost said:


> God I keep going back and forth basically between doing the T1 with a fixed screen or a Vividstorm and throwing an OLED behind it. Anyone running a setup where they have a TV behind the projector?


I would do the Vividstorm either way. Then you can put a nice picture on the wall behind it and should you decide you want to go with an OLED too, it’s an easy project to swap in and then you can always move the picture elsewhere.


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> Does anyone here have a 150" screen paired with their International T1 or earlier T1? Or even a 130" to 120" screen size?
> 
> How is the image? Still sharp? And, brightness? I'm curious as our next move will be in a place that can accommodate a larger screen. I'd like to go as big as I can without losing sharpness, if possible.


Here is the T1 with Silver Ticket 165-in white matte screen. Go big or go home 😁


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> Does anyone here have a 150" screen paired with their International T1 or earlier T1? Or even a 130" to 120" screen size?
> 
> How is the image? Still sharp? And, brightness? I'm curious as our next move will be in a place that can accommodate a larger screen. I'd like to go as big as I can without losing sharpness, if possible.


Here is another T1 screen capture on the Silver Ticker 165-in white matte screen. This image was taken during the daytime. The drape helps to block the sunlight coming








from the French sliding door.


----------



## rjyap

jeff9n said:


> Here is another T1 screen capture on the Silver Ticker 165-in white matte screen. This image was taken during the daytime. The drape helps to block the sunlight coming
> View attachment 3320898
> 
> from the French sliding door.


Looks like the screen is too big for the height. I'm going to install 135' 16:9 screen around 22" from the floor and based on my calculation the projector would be around 4" from the floor.


----------



## kraine

3sprit said:


> For Kraine the C2 is better than the Theater and awards him two prizes.
> Your opinion?
> Would you buy the C2 or the Theater?


I still prefer the Formovie theater because as I wrote above, there are many other highlights.


----------



## 3sprit

kraine said:


> I still prefer the Formovie theater because as I wrote above, there are many other highlights.


For your experience: is a white screen or an ALR screen for UST preferable?
Above are some photos with white screens...


----------



## 3sprit

Dave Harper said:


> The AWOL is much sharper than the ForMovie.


Reading the results it does not seem: they have equal votes and in one case the Theater has a better vote.
Perhaps a pattern should have been used to check the resolution capacity of each projector.


----------



## kraine

3sprit said:


> For your experience: is a white screen or an ALR screen for UST preferable?
> Above are some photos with white screens...


CLR screen forever !


----------



## 3sprit

Merci 🙂


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> Merci 🙂


Please keep in mind that any of the UST ALR screens, including the CLR, will look so-so with ambient light in the room. There is a trade-off in brightness with a UST ALR screen and quite frankly, all of them, IMHO, just try to make the best of a bad situation with room light. Comments like this can replace a large TV in the living room don't really address the poor picture quality. Sure, you can order a gristle steak and pretend it's a rib eye. But we all know the difference. 

A projector really isn't designed to be in a room with light pouring in. If you can control the light, you can opt for a white matte or gray matte screen. While the thin bezel looks great, a larger, black velvet, wrapped frame can take care of some of the light refraction and overscan. As you can see from some of the pictures submitted with larger, white matte screens - - the picture is stunning with light control and spectacular at night.


----------



## clipghost

Dave Harper said:


> The AWOL is much sharper than the ForMovie.
> 
> 
> 
> That was my thought too.
> 
> 
> 
> I would do the Vividstorm either way. Then you can put a nice picture on the wall behind it and should you decide you want to go with an OLED too, it’s an easy project to swap in and then you can always move the picture elsewhere.


Are you a fan of Vividstorm with the T1 or in general?


----------



## M_A

Can this projector display 24hz content natively, or can it only display it using MEMC at 60hz?


----------



## Dave Harper

3sprit said:


> Reading the results it does not seem: they have equal votes and in one case the Theater has a better vote.
> Perhaps a pattern should have been used to check the resolution capacity of each projector.
> View attachment 3321007


You have to remember that more contrasted images appear sharper with more depth and defined images between objects. 

I do have to say some of the scores between models had me scratching my head after long periods of calibration and even some in depth reviews on most of these USTs. 

I agree a nice test pattern would’ve shown which had the true sharpness and detail along with the best optical and lens system. 



clipghost said:


> Are you a fan of Vividstorm with the T1 or in general?


I don’t portend to be an expert with CLR screens just yet, but the Vividstorm didn’t appear to be any worse or better than our reference Spectra Vantage Screen. I’d have to see them side by side with the same projector and source material. 

I am a fan of both I guess.


----------



## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> A projector really isn't designed to be in a room with light pouring in


I can control the brightness of the room enough but I can't make a completely dark room. 
I can't even install a fixed screen.

P.S. Here the houses cost thousands of euros per square meter ... 🙂


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> I can control the brightness of the room enough but I can't make a completely dark room.
> Here the houses cost thousands of euros per square meter ... 🙂


I don't think it has to be a completely dark room. We have light walls and unfortunately, a sliding, glass patio door right to the left of the projector screen (as sitting) and high windows that do not have window treatments. The only issue is in the daytime. At night, it doesn't matter, IMHO. Any screen will look great and a white or gray matte will be brighter at a 1.0 gain versus a .6 gain with an absorbing UST ALR surface.


----------



## 3sprit

I edited my post. 😉


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> I edited my post. 😉


If you can't install a "fixed screen" then it also sounds like you can't affix anything to the wall or ceiling - - like a drop down, electronic screen. Or even a TV attached to the wall? In that case - - a Vividstorm or like product is really you're only option. But lots of happy Vividstorm users here.


----------



## Ricoflashback

FYI - I was able to fumble around with the menus and change the EDID back to 2.1 versus "Auto." So, with my Nvidia Shield Pro, I do get 4K/60 Hz as an option again. Also - - it seems that if your projector loses power, the settings go bye-bye. You'd think that they'd have a permanent memory somewhere but apparently not.


----------



## clipghost

Any of you in the Southern California area with the T1 by any chance?


----------



## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> If you can't install a "fixed screen" then it also sounds like you can't affix anything to the wall or ceiling - - like a drop down, electronic screen. Or even a TV attached to the wall? In that case - - a Vividstorm or like product is really you're only option. But lots of happy Vividstorm users here.


 Let's say I don't want a fixed screen because I need the wall free for hi-fi listening (passive acoustic correction).
A Vividstorm CLR should be the solution.


----------



## clipghost

3sprit said:


> Let's say I don't want a fixed screen because I need the wall free for hi-fi listening (passive acoustic correction).
> A Vividstorm CLR should be the solution.


Why not Vividstorm ALR?


----------



## 3sprit

ALR vs. CLR Screens: A 101 Guide


Light-rejection screens allow you to watch content on your projector in a well-lit room. What are ALR and CLR screens? How do they differ from each other?




pointerclicker.com


----------



## jeff9n

rjyap said:


> Looks like the screen is too big for the height. I'm going to install 135' 16:9 screen around 22" from the floor and based on my calculation the projector would be around 4" from the floor.


You are right. I wish the ceiling height is a bit taller so I can fill up the entire screen.


----------



## colinmatheny11

jeff9n said:


> This is the T1 (Chinese model) on a Silver Ticket 150-in White Matte Screen (1.1 gain). Very sharp and bright in a light controlled room.
> View attachment 3320810


What’s the vertical offset? Also, how high is your ceiling?

Thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jeff9n

3sprit said:


> I can control the brightness of the room enough but I can't make a completely dark room.
> I can't even install a fixed screen.
> 
> P.S. Here the houses cost thousands of euros per square meter ... 🙂


There is no need for a pitch dark bat cave to enjoy the projector with the non-ALR/CLR screen during the daytime. You just need drape(s) over the window(s). In the last photo I posted, you can see light coming through the French sliding door.


----------



## 3sprit

Your walls are dark…


----------



## jeff9n

3sprit said:


> Your walls are dark…


If you are referring to my wall, the color is mocha except for the ceiling. The ceiling color is white.


----------



## jeff9n

colinmatheny11 said:


> What’s the vertical offset? Also, how high is your ceiling?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My ceiling is 94 inch. The distance from the floor to the bottom of the screen frame is 8 inch.


----------



## JohnCHellblazer

Looking to possibly purchase this projector and mount (ceiling for seating purposes … manual says it can be done)

Is it native 4K?
Any compare to the JVC-NP5 yet?

What are the possible screen options? (saw some VividStorm recommendations) … My space could probably go 150”
Grey screen to help blacks?
Dedicated theater room FWIW


----------



## Maison

Maison said:


> Hello
> Very interest in this unit. How is the fan noise? Has anyone or could someone measure the db? We would be sitting about 7-8ft away. Thank you.


Could someone kindly answer this please. Thanks!!


----------



## Deanodxb

Maison said:


> Could someone kindly answer this please. Thanks!!


Not loud enough to hear from where you'll be sitting, as long as the left and right sides have a good open air flow. It you plan on putting the projection inside a console, expect the fans to work significantly harder.

Check out Gregory's review:

The new Formovie cannot be distinguished in the sound levels of its 3 light power modes. E n fact, at 50 cm I only measured a maximum of 35.8 dB and a minimum of 35.5 dB. This is a very good level when compared to the rest of the current UST production. It is not the noise of this device which will come to disturb your session of Obi Wan Kenobi especially as the dynamics of the Bowers & Wilkins system will come to cover the whole in a very beautiful way. It's simple, to my ears there is nothing better in a projector integrated system at the moment. It is perfectly possible to use only the Formovie speakers in the long term. 









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Maison

Deanodxb said:


> Not loud enough to hear from where you'll be sitting, as long as the left and right sides have a good open air flow. It you plan on putting the projection inside a console, expect the fans to work significantly harder.
> 
> Check out Gregory's review:
> 
> The new Formovie cannot be distinguished in the sound levels of its 3 light power modes. E n fact, at 50 cm I only measured a maximum of 35.8 dB and a minimum of 35.5 dB. This is a very good level when compared to the rest of the current UST production. It is not the noise of this device which will come to disturb your session of Obi Wan Kenobi especially as the dynamics of the Bowers & Wilkins system will come to cover the whole in a very beautiful way. It's simple, to my ears there is nothing better in a projector integrated system at the moment. It is perfectly possible to use only the Formovie speakers in the long term.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Thank you very much!!👍


----------



## 3sprit

The Formovie Theater has a distributor in Italy:








Fengmi Trilaser Formovie Theater in Italia


Il laser TV Formovie Theater prodotto da Fengmi, con sorgente luminosa trilaser, tecnologia DLP a risoluzione 4K e Dolby Vision, sarà distribuito in Italia da Cinema e Sound



www.avmagazine.it


----------



## Unwrittenlaw

Can someone recommend me an ALR screen for this that would work for both light and dark room?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Unwrittenlaw said:


> Can someone recommend me an ALR screen for this that would work for both light and dark room?


I would recommend the Spectra Projection Vantage as it was what was used in both the UST Showcase and the LaserTV Showdown. It has a high level of ALR % and great black levels. The Elite DarkUST is also on that level, but more expensive. Less expensive options like the Elite CLR2/3 will not have as good black level or ALR %.


----------



## RickMes

ProjectionHead said:


> I would recommend the Spectra Projection Vantage as it was what was used in both the UST Showcase and the LaserTV Showdown. It has a high level of ALR % and great black levels. The Elite DarkUST is also on that level, but more expensive. Less expensive options like the Elite CLR2/3 will not have as good black level or ALR %.


Does anyone know any distributor for Spectra Projection Vantage in Europe?


----------



## ProjectionHead

RickMes said:


> Does anyone know any distributor for Spectra Projection Vantage in Europe?


I don’t. Have you contacted them directly? www.spectraprojection.com


----------



## RickMes

ProjectionHead said:


> I don’t. Have you contacted them directly? www.spectraprojection.com


Yes, I will ask them, directly. Thanks!


----------



## DesertDog

Couple notes as I'm setting things up. I was going crazy with my AVR switching to "TV Audio" every time I turned everything on. Looks like it was a setting in my AVR that was causing it. Changing TV Audio Switching to off in Video/HDMI Setup seems to have solved it.

My AppleTV 4k's UI looks much better in 4k SDR than if I switch it too 4k DV or 4K HDR. Both look really dull and washed out. This is with Dave's HDFurry and Theater settings. Watching HDR/DV content though looks great with them. The focus/sharpness of images in the UI (icons and poster wall in Infuse) are also...lacking. I'm not seeing it with content though so it seems like there's a setting off or the scaling isn't right on those elements.

This actually has me wondering if some of the HDR/DV is more "washed out" then it should be too and that it's not as noticeable in a movie. Watching RP1 on Saturday I thought the opening scene in the real world was but when it jumped into the Oasis montage of flying the different worlds it looked great. So I was thinking that's how the opening looks but now I'm curious. More things to play with later tonight.


----------



## JohnCHellblazer

Looking to possibly purchase this projector and mount (ceiling for seating purposes … manual says it can be done)

Is it native 4K?
Any compare to the JVC-NP5 yet?

What are the possible screen options? (saw some VividStorm recommendations) … My space could probably go 150”
Grey screen to help blacks?
Dedicated theater room FWIW


----------



## nickasim

clipghost said:


> Thanks for all this info! I am looking for a 120" screen. The more I hear of everyone just saying how this projector (and many others) are just not able to compete during the day, the more I feel maybe getting something like a Vividstorm screen with an OLED down the line behind it to solve that problem.
> 
> I haven't seen too many UST ALR screens with a higher gain than .6, but the idea of black velvet frames is interesting one. Any idea what brand has that? Or what you would be looking at next?
> 
> Thoughts on Vividstorm?


Check this. Any thoughts by the experts?






Nbl 120" Alr Pet Ust Projector Screen Floor Rising In-ceiling Automatic 4k Projector Screen Alr Short Throw Projector Screen - Buy Home Cinema Screen With Projector,Motorized Projector Screen,200 Inch Projector Screen Product on Alibaba.com


Nbl 120" Alr Pet Ust Projector Screen Floor Rising In-ceiling Automatic 4k Projector Screen Alr Short Throw Projector Screen - Buy Home Cinema Screen With Projector,Motorized Projector Screen,200 Inch Projector Screen Product on Alibaba.com



www.alibaba.com


----------



## nickasim

For those having the NVIDIA PRO STREAMER; 
1. How does the AI function work with this projector? 

2. Did you get full DV functionality from NETFLIX and Disney+ on this projector and how does the PQ look? Or do you prefer to disengage DV and just enjoy HDR?

Thanks in advance


----------



## clipghost

nickasim said:


> Check this. Any thoughts by the experts?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nbl 120" Alr Pet Ust Projector Screen Floor Rising In-ceiling Automatic 4k Projector Screen Alr Short Throw Projector Screen - Buy Home Cinema Screen With Projector,Motorized Projector Screen,200 Inch Projector Screen Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> 
> Nbl 120" Alr Pet Ust Projector Screen Floor Rising In-ceiling Automatic 4k Projector Screen Alr Short Throw Projector Screen - Buy Home Cinema Screen With Projector,Motorized Projector Screen,200 Inch Projector Screen Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> 
> 
> www.alibaba.com


I mean, thats definitely the cheapest I have seen for 120" Floor rising...but the quality I am concerned about.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> I still prefer the Formovie theater because as I wrote above, there are many other highlights.


Hey! Just wondering how come you removed your calibration settings from your review on Mondoproj? Will you update them again?


----------



## Ricoflashback

nickasim said:


> For those having the NVIDIA PRO STREAMER;
> 1. How does the AI function work with this projector?
> 
> 2. Did you get full DV functionality from NETFLIX and Disney+ on this projector and how does the PQ look? Or do you prefer to disengage DV and just enjoy HDR?
> 
> Thanks in advance


AI works great for me with my Nvidia Pro Streamer. I don't have Disney+ but I do have a gazillion other streaming services that have DV. But...I've disabled HDR (and DV) and thoroughly enjoy the SDR picture that is brighter, more vivid with great colors and sharpness. You can try the HD Fury workaround for LLDV but I think the picture without all the hassle is really incredible with SDR. I've given up on HDR and DV. To me, the juice ain't worth the squeeze.


----------



## nickasim

See the video comparison with vividstorm.


----------



## clipghost

nickasim said:


> See the video comparison with vividstorm.


They all look good. The NBL one has 0.8 gain rather than 0.6 from Vividstorm. Is that better or worse?


----------



## nickasim

Ricoflashback said:


> AI works great for me with my Nvidia Pro Streamer. I don't have Disney+ but I do have a gazillion other streaming services that have DV. But...I've disabled HDR (and DV) and thoroughly enjoy the SDR picture that is brighter, more vivid with great colors and sharpness. You can try the HD Fury workaround for LLDV but I think the picture without all the hassle is really incredible with SDR. I've given up on HDR and DV. To me, the juice ain't worth the squeeze.


This is really wierd. Because it is supposed that we update our systems iot enjoy the profits provided by new technology. Why by sth demonstated DV but in reality I cannot enjoy it. Is it a trick of the company or just a bug to be fixed by a software update in the future?


----------



## nickasim

clipghost said:


> I mean, thats definitely the cheapest I have seen for 120" Floor rising...but the quality I am concerned about.


The prices are fake. For Europe purchase the price for the 100 in is almost 1200 including shipping


----------



## nickasim

clipghost said:


> They all look good. The NBL one has 0.8 gain rather than 0.6 from Vividstorm. Is that better or worse?


For my limited knowledge it seems better pertaining to brightness


----------



## nickasim

But we must wait for the more experienced to enlighten us


----------



## clipghost

nickasim said:


> The prices are fake. For Europe purchase the price for the 100 in is almost 1200 including shipping


What screen do you have with the T1?


----------



## Ricoflashback

nickasim said:


> This is really wierd. Because it is supposed that we update our systems iot enjoy the profits provided by new technology. Why by sth demonstated DV but in reality I cannot enjoy it. Is it a trick of the company or just a bug to be fixed by a software update in the future?


Personally, I don’t believe DV or even HDR will be perfected for projectors. Just not bright enough a picture. Even TV’s have issues with DV being too dark. The only solution if you follow this thread and Dave Harper’s comments is the HD Fury Vertex2 “hack” where LLDV is being sent to the projector. As best I understand it, the tone mapping is already there and not being handled by the PJ.

I think that HDR and DV are the two biggest disappointments in A/V technology that is/was totally oversold and completely underwhelming. And this is not the fault of the Formovie T1 or any other display. Well healed A/V aficionados will have a Lumagen or madVR Envy Pro or Extreme processor to handle DV and HDR tone mapping “heavyweight lifting.” The more affordable alternative is the HD Fury Vertex2. It’s still not cheap and is a PITA to setup but that’s just my opinion. You can spend bigger bucks for a JVC projector and their best in class, proprietary tone mapping for DV or just block HDR and DV and settle for an outstanding SDR picture on the T1 with a set it and forget it approach.


----------



## clipghost

So how are people liking the T1 Global for day time viewing? With light coming in? Impossible or watchable?


----------



## Fox&304

clipghost said:


> So how are people liking the T1 Global for day time viewing? With light coming in? Impossible or watchable?


Incredibly watchable. I have it with a BenQ ALR Screen, and it's pretty incredible how good it's for day time viewing.

Some random shots I've put on reddit : 
Day time light 











"Controlled" daytime light


----------



## clipghost

Fox&304 said:


> Incredibly watchable. I have it with a BenQ ALR Screen, and it's pretty incredible how good it's for day time viewing.


Mind sending a few pictures? Would appreciate it!

Edit: Awesome photos!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Fox&304 said:


> Incredibly watchable. I have it with a BenQ ALR Screen, and it's pretty incredible how good it's for day time viewing.
> 
> Some random shots I've put on reddit :
> Day time light
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Controlled" daytime light


Those pics look nice but you have some pretty good light control. I only see faint light from the right side of the picture and even less on the 2nd shot. Maybe include a picture of the window or your light source? And, some really dark shots? How high are your ceilings? Thx.


----------



## madmax777

please tell me the owners of T1 global. writes an error and does not read any flash drive and HDD, in any FAT32 or NTFS format. who has the same problem? how to solve the problem? for me, this is one of the most important functions. 
in the notification (in the upper right corner) writes the disk is damaged.


----------



## Fox&304

Ricoflashback said:


> Those pics look nice but you have some pretty good light control. I only see faint light from the right side of the picture and even less on the 2nd shot. Maybe include a picture of the window or your light source? And, some really dark shots? How high are your ceilings? Thx.


There are two 2m40 wide windows fully open on the 1st pic, at mid-day, and on the 2nd they're half closed. No direct light for sure, but it's still plenty bright in the room. Ceilings are at 2,50m. 
As for night screens ... here you go



















TBH It's harder to capture thanks to the very high light output/contrast. But it's incredible, I'm in love with this device.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Fox&304 said:


> There are two 2m40 wide windows fully open on the 1st pic, at mid-day, and on the 2nd they're half closed. No direct light for sure, but it's still plenty bright in the room. Ceilings are at 2,50m.
> As for night screens ... here you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TBH It's harder to capture thanks to the very high light output/contrast. But it's incredible, I'm in love with this device.


Nice. The night shots are where this projector really comes alive and shows its stuff. The black levels and colors are fantastic. Looks like you have an 8 ft., 2 inch ceiling if my math (and the U.S. not being on the metric system) is correct. I'd be interested in the same night shots (or even pitch black) during the daytime. That's where I find daytime viewing the most difficult. Plus - my screen is probably isn't as good as yours. I'm a big BenQ fan. That must have been a projector screen from a previous purchase? I can't see anywhere on the U.S. BenQ website where that ALR screen is available to buy.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice. The night shots are where this projector really comes alive and shows its stuff. The black levels and colors are fantastic. Looks like you have an 8 ft., 2 inch ceiling if my math (and the U.S. not being on the metric system) is correct. I'd be interested in the same night shots (or even pitch black) during the daytime. That's where I find daytime viewing the most difficult. Plus - my screen is probably isn't as good as yours. I'm a big BenQ fan. That must have been a projector screen from a previous purchase? I can't see anywhere on the U.S. BenQ website where that ALR screen is available to buy.


Same I was hunting for it, found nothing. We need a good fixed ALR screen recommendation that isn't Spectra.


----------



## nuevo_eph

Fox&304 said:


> There are two 2m40 wide windows fully open on the 1st pic, at mid-day, and on the 2nd they're half closed. No direct light for sure, but it's still plenty bright in the room. Ceilings are at 2,50m.
> As for night screens ... here you go
> 
> TBH It's harder to capture thanks to the very high light output/contrast. But it's incredible, I'm in love with this device.


Those look great - what size screen is that?


----------



## Fox&304

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice. The night shots are where this projector really comes alive and shows its stuff. The black levels and colors are fantastic. Looks like you have an 8 ft., 2 inch ceiling if my math (and the U.S. not being on the metric system) is correct. I'd be interested in the same night shots (or even pitch black) during the daytime. That's where I find daytime viewing the most difficult. Plus - my screen is probably isn't as good as yours. I'm a big BenQ fan. That must have been a projector screen from a previous purchase? I can't see anywhere on the U.S. BenQ website where that ALR screen is available to buy.


Actually bought it for the Formovie. Had ( and still have actually ) a Xtremscreen 110 inches 0.9 ALR screen before.


nuevo_eph said:


> Those look great - what size screen is that?


100 inches


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> Same I was hunting for it, found nothing. We need a good fixed ALR screen recommendation that isn't Spectra.


Elite DarkUST, Stewart Blackhawk & SI Short Throw. All good recommendations that are not the Spectra. Even the original Elite CLR is a good option.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice. The night shots are where this projector really comes alive and shows its stuff. The black levels and colors are fantastic. Looks like you have an 8 ft., 2 inch ceiling if my math (and the U.S. not being on the metric system) is correct. I'd be interested in the same night shots (or even pitch black) during the daytime. That's where I find daytime viewing the most difficult. Plus - my screen is probably isn't as good as yours. I'm a big BenQ fan. That must have been a projector screen from a previous purchase? I can't see anywhere on the U.S. BenQ website where that ALR screen is available to buy.











ALRS01







www.benq.eu




It was never offered in the USA and looks like it only ever came in a 100".


----------



## Fox&304

ProjectionHead said:


> ALRS01
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.benq.eu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was never offered in the USA and looks like it only ever came in a 100".


That’s the one.


----------



## 3sprit

3sprit said:


> The Formovie Theater has a distributor in Italy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fengmi Trilaser Formovie Theater in Italia
> 
> 
> Il laser TV Formovie Theater prodotto da Fengmi, con sorgente luminosa trilaser, tecnologia DLP a risoluzione 4K e Dolby Vision, sarà distribuito in Italia da Cinema e Sound
> 
> 
> 
> www.avmagazine.it


 I ordered it including calibration. 😍


----------



## 3sprit

nickasim said:


> See the video comparison with vividstorm.


Where?


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Elite DarkUST, Stewart Blackhawk & SI Short Throw. All good recommendations that are not the Spectra. Even the original Elite CLR is a good option.


The problem is the price, $2000+ for a screen is not worth it to some people (myself). Those ones you listed are even more expensive. 

That is motorized screen pricing. 

A good quality ALR screen below $1000 if it exists would be great. But seems not many recommendations for the good quality part.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> The problem is the price, $2000+ for a screen is not worth it to some people (myself). Those ones you listed are even more expensive.
> 
> That is motorized screen pricing.
> 
> A good quality ALR screen below $1000 if it exists would be great. But seems not many recommendations for the good quality part.


Ah gotcha. You wanted something "that isn't the Spectra" in terms of having a lower price, but without sacrificing quality. Sounds like the holy grail to me


----------



## Movie_geek

nickasim said:


> See the video comparison with vividstorm.


That video looks promising but I'm skeptical of vendor provided comparisons and videos since they obviously have a vested interest. The lack of a NA based distributor is also a bummer but I like they have a relationship with Fengmi and have a AUS service center. 

Maybe we can convince @ProjectionHead to try them out and if they meet his standards sell them in the US 😁


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Ah gotcha. You wanted something "that isn't the Spectra" in terms of having a lower price, but without sacrificing quality. Sounds like the holy grail to me


Definitely seems like it! Some people have leftover screens from other combos like the L9G or the user above buying second hand the BenQ. Or some people go with XYScreens but then quality comes into play.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Movie_geek said:


> That video looks promising but I'm skeptical of vendor provided comparisons and videos since they obviously have a vested interest. The lack of a NA based distributor is also a bummer but I like they have a relationship with Fengmi and have a AUS service center.
> 
> Maybe we can convince @ProjectionHead to try them out and if they meet his standards sell them in the US 😁


Just because y'all were successful in doing that with the Formovie Theater doesn't mean it will work every time....
Pool together your money and buy one to send to me for review


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Ha! While trying to get DV at 60HZ I experimented with turning HDR off. The projector came alive with colors and depth detail I’ve never seen before with my NVidia Shield Pro. I can actually see the Sandman on Netflix now. I feel like I’ve accidentally discovered electricity. Bye bye DV!


It's probably the same issue as when you feed HDR to a non-HDR projector. All the colors go flat and wash out when that happens. I can't remember the technical reason but I bet your experience is along the same line.


----------



## JackB

Dave Harper said:


> You don't have to jump through hoops at all to get good LLDV. It's really only a few clicks away, plus I shared some great settings earlier.
> 
> As I said, to each his own, but it is well known that increased color gamut and dynamic range are two of the best image improvements to come along in the last decade, so I personally choose to take advantage of that.


Dave, when using the Vertex2 with the T1 is it possible to do a set and forget? With my Sony A80J and LG B7A OLED panels I have two or three settings for SDR, HDR, and DV. The TV then auto picks the right one for the content. Does the V2/T! do this or do you have to tinker with it as you go?


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice. The night shots are where this projector really comes alive and shows its stuff. The black levels and colors are fantastic. Looks like you have an 8 ft., 2 inch ceiling if my math (and the U.S. not being on the metric system) is correct. I'd be interested in the same night shots (or even pitch black) during the daytime. That's where I find daytime viewing the most difficult. Plus - my screen is probably isn't as good as yours. I'm a big BenQ fan. That must have been a projector screen from a previous purchase? I can't see anywhere on the U.S. BenQ website where that ALR screen is available to buy.


I think it is either a cut & paste job or that screen is my Sony A80J OLED panel.


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> Personally, I don’t believe DV or even HDR will be perfected for projectors. Just not bright enough a picture. Even TV’s have issues with DV being too dark. The only solution if you follow this thread and Dave Harper’s comments is the HD Fury Vertex2 “hack” where LLDV is being sent to the projector. As best I understand it, the tone mapping is already there and not being handled by the PJ.
> 
> I think that HDR and DV are the two biggest disappointments in A/V technology that is/was totally oversold and completely underwhelming. And this is not the fault of the Formovie T1 or any other display. Well healed A/V aficionados will have a Lumagen or madVR Envy Pro or Extreme processor to handle DV and HDR tone mapping “heavyweight lifting.” The more affordable alternative is the HD Fury Vertex2. It’s still not cheap and is a PITA to setup but that’s just my opinion. You can spend bigger bucks for a JVC projector and their best in class, proprietary tone mapping for DV or just block HDR and DV and settle for an outstanding SDR picture on the T1 with a set it and forget it approach.


I agree 100%. Been there and done it myself. Tried one of those HD Fury box. The experience was was not good. Sometime the projector would not initialize the Roku box because of the additional HDMI device in the chain.

I just want a simple setup. So I returned the HD Fury box and set Roku display type to 4K TV (SDR). No more lobster face, artificial color or dark display.


----------



## Dave Harper

JackB said:


> Dave, when using the Vertex2 with the T1 is it possible to do a set and forget? With my Sony A80J and LG B7A OLED panels I have two or three settings for SDR, HDR, and DV. The TV then auto picks the right one for the content. Does the V2/T! do this or do you have to tinker with it as you go?


I don’t really have that information because whenever I have had time with this projector it is always for my work with projectorscreen.com so we do not have any external processors hooked up to it because we are testing the projector itself. I would have to take it home with me for a while and play with it on my own time to figure those settings out with an HDFury. I have played a little bit of contacts into our calibrated settings with the settings that I use on my Vertex2 and it looked good though but I don’t know how it would translate to playing SDR and HDR. 



jeff9n said:


> I agree 100%. Been there and done it myself. Tried one of those HD Fury box. The experience was was not good. Sometime the projector would not initialize the Roku box because of the additional HDMI device in the chain.
> 
> I just want a simple setup. So I returned the HD Fury box and set Roku display type to 4K TV (SDR). No more lobster face, artificial color or dark display.


It’s amazing what happens when you use the right settings though.


----------



## JohnCHellblazer

Maybe 3rd time is the charm …

I am looking to buy the Formovie Theater, mount it on the ceiling and get some form of retractable screen if possible.

This will be for a dedicated theater room that has dark walls and ceiling and is well light controlled.

Anyone out there with experience with this type of setup or have recommendations?

Any assistance would be appreciated.


----------



## JackB

Dave Harper said:


> I don’t really have that information because whenever I have had time with this projector it is always for my work with projectorscreen.com so we do not have any external processors hooked up to it because we are testing the projector itself. I would have to take it home with me for a while and play with it on my own time to figure those settings out with an HDFury. I have played a little bit of contacts into our calibrated settings with the settings that I use on my Vertex2 and it looked good though but I don’t know how it would translate to playing SDR and HDR.


That's confusing. I thought I had read postings in this thread by you that were the settings for the T1 combined with the Vertex2. Are you saying that you have calibrated the T1 with the V2 just for one set of material; SDR for instance?


----------



## kraine

Joered101 said:


> Hey! Just wondering how come you removed your calibration settings from your review on Mondoproj? Will you update them again?


I'm trying to make an easy and overall version with the experience acquired.


----------



## Deanodxb

clipghost said:


> The problem is the price, $2000+ for a screen is not worth it to some people (myself). Those ones you listed are even more expensive.
> 
> That is motorized screen pricing.
> 
> A good quality ALR screen below $1000 if it exists would be great. But seems not many recommendations for the good quality part.


I have a Chinese KY ALR screen which is performing really well. However quality was a bit of a disaster. Parts of frame were not from the same cuts (mitered corners didn't match up) and the stitching on one of the tension pockets came undone so I had to restitch that before installing. When I challenged KY on this they said is was due to issues of factory closure and reduced manpower following the COVID outbreak in China at the beginning of the year. Maybe that's right and what I received is not representative of their usual standards.

However, now its together on the wall the velvet frame covers any gaps in the corner and the screen has not warped or wrinkled at all, despite high humidity and really high summer temps here.


----------



## nickasim

3sprit said:


> Where?
> [/QUO


----------



## MDesigns

Are the really expensive $2000+ CLR screens really worth it? What do they add? CLR is Ceiling Light Rejection, does it do anything to the light coming from the sides? ALR screens are then the fixed lenticular(fresnel?) ones that cost even more and are not without issues also? @ProjectionHead is referring to "better black levels" between screens. What do you actually mean by that? Is it just the gain of the screen? Lower gain does better better blacks with dimming the picture but it also dims the whites equal amount, so it is not only good.

IMO projection is always badly compromised in daylight situation, so I would optimize to darker/night conditions with a white or just slightly lower gain gray screen. Those can be found cheap, doesn't ruin the optimized night time viewing with the extra coatings or edges in the surface. Daytime viewing is already compromised so it doesn't really matter, just deal with how it looks at day or get a TV. I would never pay $2k for a screen. You can get a really good 85" LCD TV with local dimming for that money.

Formovie Theater though looks really interesting and would love to have a look at it at home


----------



## nickasim

For those who complained about difficulties in pairing the remote control, see the note on page 12 of the manual, namely:
"_Hold the remote control close to the projector within a distance of 20cm when pairing_."


----------



## madmax777

madmax777 said:


> please tell me the owners of T1 global. writes an error and does not read any flash drive and HDD, in any FAT32 or NTFS format. who has the same problem? how to solve the problem? for me, this is one of the most important functions.
> in the notification (in the upper right corner) writes the disk is damaged.


does no one have such a problem? experienced specialists, please tell me what to do?


----------



## kraine

It’s not working. I have mention this point in my review.
English version (bottom) :










Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## nickasim

I decided to go for the global version (Formovie Theater) and the NBL 100-inch screen. I believe this is a really good offer by NBL. Their support has been really fantastic till now. Cross fıngures to receive the products in good condition.


----------



## madmax777

kraine said:


> It’s not working. I have mention this point in my review.
> English version (bottom) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


I saw this article, I hoped this problem was solved! I can only watch movies from HDD, for me the projector becomes useless without using HDD. does no one really use a flash drive?


----------



## ProjectionHead

MDesigns said:


> Are the really expensive $2000+ CLR screens really worth it? What do they add? CLR is Ceiling Light Rejection, does it do anything to the light coming from the sides? ALR screens are then the fixed lenticular(fresnel?) ones that cost even more and are not without issues also? @ProjectionHead is referring to "better black levels" between screens. What do you actually mean by that? Is it just the gain of the screen? Lower gain does better better blacks with dimming the picture but it also dims the whites equal amount, so it is not only good.
> 
> IMO projection is always badly compromised in daylight situation, so I would optimize to darker/night conditions with a white or just slightly lower gain gray screen. Those can be found cheap, doesn't ruin the optimized night time viewing with the extra coatings or edges in the surface. Daytime viewing is already compromised so it doesn't really matter, just deal with how it looks at day or get a TV. I would never pay $2k for a screen. You can get a really good 85" LCD TV with local dimming for that money.
> 
> Formovie Theater though looks really interesting and would love to have a look at it at home


Here is a picture of various CLR type screens with the lights on. There is clearly a difference between how these surfaces perform
from a black level and ALR %.
Whether one feels it is worth the money for better performance and image quality on their viewing environment is up to them, as it is with any other projector screen, projector, tv or other equipment.









Have you seen @Fox&304 ‘s pictures in his well lit room? They looks pretty amazing to me








Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


See the video comparison with vividstorm.




www.avsforum.com





Sure you could buy an 85” TV but a 120” image will be 2x larger and the color gamut on the Formovie will be way better as well.








There are always opportunities to spend less money, but you shouldn’t expect the same levels of performance.
Some people don’t feel the increase in quality is worth the increase in cost (juice worth the squeeze) and that is understandable, others want the best bang for their buck and there are other still who just simply want the best.
IMHO, for an ambient light rejecting screen with good sharpness, black levels with ambient light, not being washed out, and build quality, $2,000ish for a 120” for the right screen hits the “bang for the buck” mark based on all of the ones I have evaluated.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JohnCHellblazer said:


> Maybe 3rd time is the charm …
> 
> I am looking to buy the Formovie Theater, mount it on the ceiling and get some form of retractable screen if possible.
> 
> This will be for a dedicated theater room that has dark walls and ceiling and is well light controlled.
> 
> Anyone out there with experience with this type of setup or have recommendations?
> 
> Any assistance would be appreciated.


While ceiling mounting is possible, align I meant wil be extra challenging. Fortunately, once you have it all dialed in you won’t need to re-adjust it as much as you would with a table/credenza mount since nothing will likely bump into the projector.
Also, with no lens shift, you must very specifically place everything perfect to get to work.
You MUST do with a tensioned screen if you want a flat image an I’d suggest a lower gain 0.7-0.8 such as the such as the Stewart Greymatte or Tiburon.
CLR type screens will not work with the projector inverted and you don’t need one anyone in a dedicated, dark room.


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> While ceiling mounting is possible, align I meant wil be extra challenging. Fortunately, once you have it all dialed in you won’t need to re-adjust it as much as you would with a table/credenza mount since nothing will likely bump into the projector.
> Also, with no lens shift, you must very specifically place everything perfect to get to work.
> You MUST do with a tensioned screen if you want a flat image an I’d suggest a lower gain 0.7-0.8 such as the such as the Stewart Greymatte or Tiburon.
> CLR type screens will not work with the projector inverted and you don’t need one anyone in a dedicated, dark room.


or just overshoot the projection and dial it back with geometric correction. I realize that's heresy to most of the people in this thread but for those of us with low patience, it's sometimes the only choice.


----------



## nickasim

I am now using this splitter and taking both DV and DAtmos. It also incorporates a EDID function.









Steetek HDMI Matrix 4X2 Switch, 4K @ 60 Hz, RGB 8: 8: 8, SPDIF 5.1H, Audio EDID Extraktor, 3,5-mm-Stereo-Audio-HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 3D-Video-Splitter mit IR-Fernbedienung: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör


Steetek HDMI Matrix 4X2 Switch, 4K @ 60 Hz, RGB 8: 8: 8, SPDIF 5.1H, Audio EDID Extraktor, 3,5-mm-Stereo-Audio-HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 3D-Video-Splitter mit IR-Fernbedienung: Amazon.de: Computer & Zubehör



www.amazon.de





Can this splitter be used instead of HDFury, as a between, to sent LLDV to the projector from NVIDIA PRO?

Thanks in advance


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> or just overshoot the projection and dial it back with geometric correction. I realize that's heresy to most of the people in this thread but for those of us with low patience, it's sometimes the only choice.


----------



## JRock3x8

@ Brian - that's not the first time someone has inferred that on this forum


----------



## MDesigns

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is a picture of various CLR type screens with the lights on. There is clearly a difference between how these surfaces perform
> from a black level and ALR %.
> Whether one feels it is worth the money for better performance and image quality on their viewing environment is up to them, as it is with any other projector screen, projector, tv or other equipment.
> View attachment 3322157


-How do you define the "black level and ALR %"? Darker screen gives better blacks and also blocks ambient light the best?
-Is this with the lights on the ceiling?
-How do the surfaces look when light comes from either side like a window? Do some of these block better ceiling light or side light?

-The two on the right look unusable because of the "sheen/sparkle", upper right is the worst.

The whites lose quite a bit of punch too so it's not all good and rosy, but I guess acceptable if one just wants the better blacks for day use. In this case above I agree white screen would look awful(bottom right), but I think the Spectra Vantage would instead be so dim that it wouldn't be really nice to watch even with the better blacks. All I'm saying is to get some blinds to the windows and turn off the lights and you get a much better picture with whatever screen you have


----------



## Dave Harper

JackB said:


> That's confusing. I thought I had read postings in this thread by you that were the settings for the T1 combined with the Vertex2. Are you saying that you have calibrated the T1 with the V2 just for one set of material; SDR for instance?


Yes those settings were from when I just finished doing an HDR calibration on the T1, then as a test I ran it through my system with the AppleTV, Zidoo Z9X and the HDFury to see how it came out. Needless to say the image was incredible so I posted the settings from the HDFury and the T1. 

I didn’t do the same for SDR, so I couldn’t answer whether those particular settings would work with it.


----------



## JackB

kraine said:


> I'm trying to make an easy and overall version with the experience acquired.


Could someone translate that into "real meaning" English for me?


----------



## Dr. Feelgood

Hi guys,
the Theater arrived and it looks stunning on a white wall with out the box settings. It‘s my first Lasertv, so I’m really impressed now coming from a 44“ TV. Are there any settings I need to change for best results parred with an Apple TV 4K. Any help would be appreciated. and please explain like it‘s for a kid, really new to this lasertv thing. Thank you.


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> I saw this article, I hoped this problem was solved! I can only watch movies from HDD, for me the projector becomes useless without using HDD. does no one really use a flash drive?


I do use a small, portable hard drive but I use it in conjunction with my older OPPO 103 Blu-ray Player which handles files much better than any native projector or TV for that matter. I'd suggest that route - - you may have a player already or buy one to fill that need. You can try to load software to play files but if it's not working properly right now (which Gregory states) then I wouldn't expect it to be fixed soon. I find a separate player has much more processing power and is easier to navigate, as well. Sorry if this isn't the answer you're looking for but I believe it's the best answer for playing any external files.


----------



## clipghost

Deanodxb said:


> I have a Chinese KY ALR screen which is performing really well. However quality was a bit of a disaster. Parts of frame were not from the same cuts (mitered corners didn't match up) and the stitching on one of the tension pockets came undone so I had to restitch that before installing. When I challenged KY on this they said is was due to issues of factory closure and reduced manpower following the COVID outbreak in China at the beginning of the year. Maybe that's right and what I received is not representative of their usual standards.
> 
> However, now its together on the wall the velvet frame covers any gaps in the corner and the screen has not warped or wrinkled at all, despite high humidity and really high summer temps here.


Do you mean XY Screens? I can't find the screen you are talking about.


----------



## Fox&304

JackB said:


> Could someone translate that into "real meaning" English for me?


That's a pretty mean comment, but I'll do it anyway : 
I think what Kraine means is that he's currently working on publishing settings based on the experience he now has of having calibrated several Theater, settings that he's hoping will work for "most of the people".


----------



## JohnCHellblazer

ProjectionHead said:


> While ceiling mounting is possible, align I meant wil be extra challenging. Fortunately, once you have it all dialed in you won’t need to re-adjust it as much as you would with a table/credenza mount since nothing will likely bump into the projector.
> Also, with no lens shift, you must very specifically place everything perfect to get to work.
> You MUST do with a tensioned screen if you want a flat image an I’d suggest a lower gain 0.7-0.8 such as the such as the Stewart Greymatte or Tiburon.
> CLR type screens will not work with the projector inverted and you don’t need one anyone in a dedicated, dark room.


PM sent ... I don't want to screw this up


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Here is a picture of various CLR type screens with the lights on. There is clearly a difference between how these surfaces perform
> from a black level and ALR %.
> Whether one feels it is worth the money for better performance and image quality on their viewing environment is up to them, as it is with any other projector screen, projector, tv or other equipment.
> View attachment 3322157
> 
> 
> Have you seen @Fox&304 ‘s pictures in his well lit room? They looks pretty amazing to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> See the video comparison with vividstorm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure you could buy an 85” TV but a 120” image will be 2x larger and the color gamut on the Formovie will be way better as well.
> View attachment 3322159
> 
> There are always opportunities to spend less money, but you shouldn’t expect the same levels of performance.
> Some people don’t feel the increase in quality is worth the increase in cost (juice worth the squeeze) and that is understandable, others want the best bang for their buck and there are other still who just simply want the best.
> IMHO, for an ambient light rejecting screen with good sharpness, black levels with ambient light, not being washed out, and build quality, $2,000ish for a 120” for the right screen hits the “bang for the buck” mark based on all of the ones I have evaluated.


So basically if you have light coming from your sides ALR but if JUST from ceiling lights, CLR? 

Is there any price drop EVER or a sale on Spectra? Or have they consistently been that price?


----------



## madmax777

Ricoflashback said:


> I do use a small, portable hard drive but I use it in conjunction with my older OPPO 103 Blu-ray Player which handles files much better than any native projector or TV for that matter. I'd suggest that route - - you may have a player already or buy one to fill that need. You can try to load software to play files but if it's not working properly right now (which Gregory states) then I wouldn't expect it to be fixed soon. I find a separate player has much more processing power and is easier to navigate, as well. Sorry if this isn't the answer you're looking for but I believe it's the best answer for playing any external files.


I have never had the experience of using such players together with a projector. always the HDD is inserted into the projector and we look. you could advise some newer and compact device (without DVDs, it is no longer relevant. from USB to HDD) ? inexpensive.
Do you output an image to the projector via HDMI?
thanks

p.s. if the movie supports HD, dolby vision and others, will they work via HDMI?


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> I have never had the experience of using such players together with a projector. always the HDD is inserted into the projector and we look. you could advise some newer and compact device (without DVDs, it is no longer relevant. from USB to HDD) ? inexpensive.
> Do you output an image to the projector via HDMI?
> thanks
> 
> p.s. if the movie supports HD, dolby vision and others, will they work via HDMI?


All via HDMI and yes, if you have, for example, a Blu-ray player capable of Dolby Vision with discs (and I assume "rips?") - - that should play all content in its original form. I find this a much better solution and much faster than trying to attach a flash drive to the T1. For grins, I tried to attach a drive to the T1 but it failed miserably. *I believe m0j0 has a favorite media player (Zidoo) that he touts (doesn't play discs) and in which he uses in conjunction with his original T1 (not the International version.) I'm sure there are other players out there, as well, without a disc drive.*


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> I'm trying to make an easy and overall version with the experience acquired.


Ah okay I see, look forward to it. I made the huge mistake of not including calibration in my order and now cannot for the life of me get it calibrated with my i1 x-rite on HCFR. Reads even sdr out the box as not hitting the saturation points by quite a bit even with colour space ‘on’. Not sure where im going wrong? If you have any advice please advise. Would be so appreciated.
Really wish I forked out the extra for the calibration now, but was already tight on the purchase….


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> So basically if you have light coming from your sides ALR but if JUST from ceiling lights, CLR?
> 
> Is there any price drop EVER or a sale on Spectra? Or have they consistently been that price?


Side light "alr" really comes down to the viewing angle - the more narrow viewing angle the less light impacts it from off axis.
There are currently bundle deals with the Spectra and the Formovie but with price increases across the board in the screen world, it is more likely to see an increase than a decrease in the future. Sales do happen occasionally.


----------



## ProjectionHead

MDesigns said:


> -How do you define the "black level and ALR %"? Darker screen gives better blacks and also blocks ambient light the best?
> -Is this with the lights on the ceiling?
> -How do the surfaces look when light comes from either side like a window? Do some of these block better ceiling light or side light?
> 
> -The two on the right look unusable because of the "sheen/sparkle", upper right is the worst.
> 
> The whites lose quite a bit of punch too so it's not all good and rosy, but I guess acceptable if one just wants the better blacks for day use. In this case above I agree white screen would look awful(bottom right), but I think the Spectra Vantage would instead be so dim that it wouldn't be really nice to watch even with the better blacks. All I'm saying is to get some blinds to the windows and turn off the lights and you get a much better picture with whatever screen you have
> 
> View attachment 3322166


-How do you define the "black level and ALR %"? Darker screen gives better blacks and also blocks ambient light the best?
*- ALR % is provided by manufacturer based on their measurements. The black level i am referring to is what is clearly visible when projecting black.*

-Is this with the lights on the ceiling?
* - extremely harsh fluorescent ceiling lighting in the entire room and directly overhead*

-How do the surfaces look when light comes from either side like a window? Do some of these block better ceiling light or side light?
-* no ALR screen can fend off direct sunlight. Side light does wash things out; you'd want a Fresnel screen to deal with side light, but you sacrifice viewing angle, gain potential hotspots and crazy ceiling reflections.*

-The two on the right look unusable because of the "sheen/sparkle", upper right is the worst.
* - I agree*

"but I think the Spectra Vantage would instead be so dim that it wouldn't be really nice to watch even with the better blacks."
* - check out our photos videos that we post and you can see what an actual projected image on this screen looks like; even the footage from the Showdown that Chris Majestic posted. *

"All I'm saying is to get some blinds to the windows and turn off the lights and you get a much better picture with whatever screen you have"
* - well yeah, that's generally the case but not everyone wants to do that, hence the use for ALR screens*


----------



## madmax777

I formatted the USB flash drive in FAT32 format on the computer, after that the flash drive was determined on the projector. but in this format, movies cannot be recorded on a USB stick! after inserting the flash drive into the computer, the projector created many folders on the flash drive (pictured). it turns out that the projector works only with FAT32 format and creates its own folders on it, if the flash drive in NTFS format the projector cannot recognize it.


----------



## kraine

Joered101 said:


> Ah okay I see, look forward to it. I made the huge mistake of not including calibration in my order and now cannot for the life of me get it calibrated with my i1 x-rite on HCFR. Reads even sdr out the box as not hitting the saturation points by quite a bit even with colour space ‘on’. Not sure where im going wrong? If you have any advice please advise. Would be so appreciated.
> Really wish I forked out the extra for the calibration now, but was already tight on the purchase….





















The best I can do for the moment


----------



## Fox&304

madmax777 said:


> I formatted the USB flash drive in FAT32 format on the computer, after that the flash drive was determined on the projector. but in this format, movies cannot be recorded on a USB stick! after inserting the flash drive into the computer, the projector created many folders on the flash drive (pictured). it turns out that the projector works only with FAT32 format and creates its own folders on it, if the flash drive in NTFS format the projector cannot recognize it.


Well then you'll be able to enjoy those sweet 720p encodings


----------



## madmax777

I found out: the projector cannot work with large drives! I have 4 flash drives (2gb\4gb\16gb\32gb). none of them work in NTFS format! in FAT32 format, 16gb and 32gb are detected but do not work! in FAT32 format, 2gb and 4gb are detected and work! question: can the support service fix this in the firmware update? or don't they need it? it's a shame to buy a projector for such a price with useless USB connectors!


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> I found out: the projector cannot work with large drives! I have 4 flash drives (2gb\4gb\16gb\32gb). none of them work in NTFS format! in FAT32 format, 16gb and 32gb are detected but do not work! in FAT32 format, 2gb and 4gb are detected and work! question: can the support service fix this in the firmware update? or don't they need it? it's a shame to buy a projector for such a price with useless USB connectors!


I've never found internal apps whether that be on a TV or a projector to play external files well. You've devoted a lot of time proving the T1 has useless USB connections - - at least as it relates to playing files. I wouldn't spend any more time on trying to fix or having Formovie fix this issue. It ain't going to happen, IMHO. I'd focus on getting an Android Media Player within your budget and then you can play external files to your heart's content with much better processing, audio and video quality.


----------



## madmax777

Ricoflashback said:


> I'd focus on getting an Android Media Player


to be honest, I've never worked with it and I don't know how. can you tell me in more detail? I always had a hard drive connected to all projectors and worked. I do not know any other ways

p.s. I downloaded movies of 50-70 GB in very good quality and was satisfied.


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> to be honest, I've never worked with it and I don't know how. can you tell me in more detail? I always had a hard drive connected to all projectors and worked. I do not know any other ways
> 
> p.s. I downloaded movies of 50-70 GB in very good quality and was satisfied.


Try this link - https://www.amazon.com/Zidoo-Player-Android-Quality-Engine/dp/B08M3JSWZX

Although it's the U.S. Amazon site, it has a very good description of the Zidoo 9X player. I think it's the solution you're looking for especially with the problems with files and the T1.


----------



## aerodynamics

Ricoflashback said:


> Please keep in mind that any of the UST ALR screens, including the CLR, will look so-so with ambient light in the room. There is a trade-off in brightness with a UST ALR screen and quite frankly, all of them, IMHO, just try to make the best of a bad situation with room light. Comments like this can replace a large TV in the living room don't really address the poor picture quality. Sure, you can order a gristle steak and pretend it's a rib eye. But we all know the difference.
> 
> A projector really isn't designed to be in a room with light pouring in. If you can control the light, you can opt for a white matte or gray matte screen. While the thin bezel looks great, a larger, black velvet, wrapped frame can take care of some of the light refraction and overscan. As you can see from some of the pictures submitted with larger, white matte screens - - the picture is stunning with light control and spectacular at night.


This really depends on how much light you're letting in. It sounds like you live somewhere with large and/or a lot of windows and/or a lot of sun (Arizona I believe?). Also which way the home is facing plays a role. I have my UST screen right next to a window but it never gets really bright, partly because of the direction this window faces and the property next door also blocks some of the light. On really bright days, I can close my curtains 1/4 to basically block the light hitting the screen but the room is what I would still consider to be bright. We get a very watchable picture on most days (and this is with an 1800 lumen UST). 

Long story short, I say it all depends.


----------



## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> it has a very good description of the Zidoo 9X player


 Is it the best player available?


----------



## Brajesh

For local media playback, yes.


----------



## Ricoflashback

aerodynamics said:


> This really depends on how much light you're letting in. It sounds like you live somewhere with large and/or a lot of windows and/or a lot of sun (Arizona I believe?). Also which way the home is facing plays a role. I have my UST screen right next to a window but it never gets really bright, partly because of the direction this window faces and the property next door also blocks some of the light. On really bright days, I can close my curtains 1/4 to basically block the light hitting the screen but the room is what I would still consider to be bright. We get a very watchable picture on most days (and this is with an 1800 lumen UST).
> 
> Long story short, I say it all depends.


We‘re renting. A picture is worth a thousand words. Daytime challenges as the sun pours in from the Northeast patio window.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> We‘re renting. A picture is worth a thousand words. Daytime challenges as the sun pours in from the Northeast patio window.
> 
> View attachment 3322441


What screen is that? Care to show us how it looks during day time? Would love to see!


----------



## DesertDog

3sprit said:


> Is it the best player available?


I'll +1 to the Z9X. For local media playback it's great. I switched to it for that use from an nVidia Shield and AppleTV. I was working on dialing in my picture and it looks great with the Global. 

The AppleTV is great for streaming content, usually, but for local streaming it can't do Atmos or DTS:X's hights. It's limited to the base 7.1 layer. And I say usually because mine is giving me fits right now with the Global. I think it might be something with mine though. Last night it wouldn't even output HDR titles as HDR. It was outputting them as rec 709 SDR according to my HDFury. DV played correctly though. It was odd. I'm going to trouble shoot it some more tonight.


----------



## lattiboy

DesertDog said:


> The AppleTV is great for streaming content, usually, but for local streaming it can't do Atmos or DTS:X's hights. It's limited to the base 7.1 layer.


FYI, Infuse player will play proper Atmos from rips. It’s $2 a month for the service. Integrates directly with Plex too, so you don’t have to run two media servers.


----------



## aerodynamics

Ricoflashback said:


> We‘re renting. A picture is worth a thousand words. Daytime challenges as the sun pours in from the Northeast patio window.
> 
> View attachment 3322441


Yes that upper window is letting in a ton of light. How dark is the room when you shut the blinds to that window?


----------



## DesertDog

lattiboy said:


> FYI, Infuse player will play proper Atmos from rips. It’s $2 a month for the service. Integrates directly with Plex too, so you don’t have to run two media servers.


Infuse only plays "DD+ Atmos" and can not play the lossless TrueHD Atmos from discs. The ATV isn't capable of it. I've been an Infuse user and beta tester since 2015. We've had many discussions on it but it's stuck due to Apple not allowing it. It's one of the major disappointments with the ATV.  

If you're using it with Plex there's a chance that Plex is transcoding the audio for you. Plex transcoding when I don't want it to was one of my initial reasons for switching from it to Emby.


----------



## DesertDog

DesertDog said:


> I'll +1 to the Z9X. For local media playback it's great. I switched to it for that use from an nVidia Shield and AppleTV. I was working on dialing in my picture and it looks great with the Global.
> 
> The AppleTV is great for streaming content, usually, but for local streaming it can't do Atmos or DTS:X's hights. It's limited to the base 7.1 layer. And I say usually because mine is giving me fits right now with the Global. I think it might be something with mine though. Last night it wouldn't even output HDR titles as HDR. It was outputting them as rec 709 SDR according to my HDFury. DV played correctly though. It was odd. I'm going to trouble shoot it some more tonight.


I figured out why my ATV wasn't playing the videos in the correct color space. The HDMI EDID setting got switched back to "auto" from "2.1." Once I switched it back the videos played in the correct mode. I had to unplug the projector the other day and I'm guessing that that's what did it. Odd thing is the picture settings didn't get reset that time so I thought all of the setting stuck. 

The ATV's UI still looks washed out when set to either HDR or DV so it still has some sort of mismatch but it looks good in SDR and the videos look good so I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm guessing it might be a brightness issue. I was going to try to turn down the max luminance in my HDFury to see if that fixes it but then that'll mess up video quality and that matters more.


----------



## Ricoflashback

aerodynamics said:


> Yes that upper window is letting in a ton of light. How dark is the room when you shut the blinds to that window?


That’s the problem - the window treatments are poor and since we are renting, it makes no sense to buy anything better. But all is not lost - after 7:30m, the screen starts looking great.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> What screen is that? Care to show us how it looks during day time? Would love to see!


Check some of my earlier posts. I have a cheapo WEMAX 100” screen that works fine at night. My situation isn’t like most of the posters here who have much better light control.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> I figured out why my ATV wasn't playing the videos in the correct color space. The HDMI EDID setting got switched back to "auto" from "2.1." Once I switched it back the videos played in the correct mode. I had to unplug the projector the other day and I'm guessing that that's what did it. Odd thing is the picture settings didn't get reset that time so I thought all of the setting stuck.
> 
> The ATV's UI still looks washed out when set to either HDR or DV so it still has some sort of mismatch but it looks good in SDR and the videos look good so I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm guessing it might be a brightness issue. I was going to try to turn down the max luminance in my HDFury to see if that fixes it but then that'll mess up video quality and that matters more.


Yes - that happened to me, as well. That’s a bug that needs to be fixed. And, an easier, quicker way to access the EDID settings.


----------



## Deanodxb

clipghost said:


> Do you mean XY Screens? I can't find the screen you are talking about.


Sorry yes XY Screens! I have the ALR PET Crystal one.


----------



## 3sprit

Brajesh said:


> For local media playback, yes.


Is it better than other products of the same brand? 🤔


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> View attachment 3322319
> 
> 
> View attachment 3322320
> 
> 
> The best I can do for the moment
> [/QUOTE
> 
> can’t get anywhere close to this! Is that it hitting 709 sweeps in 2020gamut range? Worried now mine might be slightly faulty….


----------



## Fox&304

Shield TV Pro is also a very good contender for local playback I've found. It plays everything, is fast and efficient (also, their 1080p AI Upscaling does wonders).


----------



## nickasim

Fox&304 said:


> Shield TV Pro is also a very good contender for local playback I've found. It plays everything, is fast and efficient (also, their 1080p AI Upscaling does wonders).


Fully agree. Even on an old, non HDR but 4k capable Samsung led TV the picture is great


----------



## swehr

Hi everyone. I just joined this site, but have followed this and other threads for awhile. I recently purchased a Formovie Theater from Brian and am loving it so far. I do have a question for people with the Vividstorm floor rising screen. Previously I had an Optoma P1 and used the wireless USB 12V trigger to get the screen to go up and down when powering the projector on and off. However, with the new Formovie Theater projector, it doesn’t seem to work. Does anyone have that working? Maybe a newer version of the USB trigger is needed? I do see Vividstorm has a wired trigger now. Anyone using that? I did email Vividstorm directly and they couldn’t confirm the wireless USB trigger would work with the Formovie Theater but said they would test and get back to me. Thanks in advanced for any input.


----------



## MDesigns

Ricoflashback said:


> We‘re renting. A picture is worth a thousand words. Daytime challenges as the sun pours in from the Northeast patio window.
> 
> View attachment 3322441


Can you share a few pictures how it looks in this kind of lighting conditions?


----------



## MDesigns

ProjectionHead said:


> -How do the surfaces look when light comes from either side like a window? Do some of these block better ceiling light or side light?
> -* no ALR screen can fend off direct sunlight. Side light does wash things out; you'd want a Fresnel screen to deal with side light, but you sacrifice viewing angle, gain potential hotspots and crazy ceiling reflections.*


That is what I thought. But still I think many here are buying CLR screens to fight ambient light that mostly comes from other directions than the ceiling, but they are not meant for that. Hopefully not many are mad enough that they would keep the lights on on the ceiling close to the screen.


----------



## 3sprit

You also avoid reflections of images on the ceiling.
If you don't have a dedicated room, the ceilings are usually painted in light colors.


----------



## Fox&304

And I can add +1 to the number of times the Theater has stopped responding to BT/Wifi remote control. This is annoying, have to unplug it completely to get back.


----------



## Dave Harper

lattiboy said:


> FYI, Infuse player will play proper Atmos from rips. It’s $2 a month for the service. Integrates directly with Plex too, so you don’t have to run two media servers.


The Z9X and it’s Dolby Labs VS10 Engine is easily seen as superior to what the AppleTV puts out via Infuse. I have both and have gone back and forth comparing identical scenes on numerous occasions. It even tone maps much better.


----------



## clipghost

Deanodxb said:


> Sorry yes XY Screens! I have the ALR PET Crystal one.


Care to show any pics? Thanks!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Regarding XY Screens - - I went to their website and they now show a "Black Crystal" product. I'm not sure if this replaced the "Pet Crystal" or is just a new name. Can anyone recommend a contact there for those looking for the Pet Crystal XY Screen?

Whoops - spoke too soon. Here is the description once digging in more to their website:








High Quality Manufacturing Of Ambient Light Rejecting Fabrics


Ambient Light Rejecting Fabrics, Guangzhou Xiong-Yun Audio-Visual Equipment Co., Ltd. Specialized in projector screen fabric & Ambient Light Rejecting...




www.xyscreen.com


----------



## Ricoflashback

One observation with this T1 UST projector - the lens area (clear cover) seems to get more dust and cat hair (we have cats) than a ceiling placed, regular throw projector. Not a problem but a more diligent effort is required to clean the lens to keep the picture as pristine as possible.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Regarding XY Screens - - I went to their website and they now show a "Black Crystal" product. I'm not sure if this replaced the "Pet Crystal" or is just a new name. Can anyone recommend a contact there for those looking for the Pet Crystal XY Screen?
> 
> Whoops - spoke too soon. Here is the description once digging in more to their website:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High Quality Manufacturing Of Ambient Light Rejecting Fabrics
> 
> 
> Ambient Light Rejecting Fabrics, Guangzhou Xiong-Yun Audio-Visual Equipment Co., Ltd. Specialized in projector screen fabric & Ambient Light Rejecting...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.xyscreen.com


I think that's only for standard throw and doesn't work for UST


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> I think that's only for standard throw and doesn't work for UST


Right you are. The referenced website has the Pet Crystal listed with specs - .8 gain. m0j0 and many others have commented how well they like the screen and its price. I'm not sure what the 120" goes for these days. I'm waiting until we move and then I'll look at this screen as well as the new solution from Stewart Filmscreen that tries to address the light "frame" around the frame at night from the thin bezel reflection.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Right you are. The referenced website has the Pet Crystal listed with specs - .8 gain. m0j0 and many others have commented how well they like the screen and its price. I'm not sure what the 120" goes for these days. I'm waiting until we move and then I'll look at this screen as well as the new solution from Stewart Filmscreen that tries to address the light "frame" around the frame at night from the thin bezel reflection.


Yup I have heard of it as well. The gain is a bit higher at 0.8 instead of 0.5/0.6 I see on other screens. Is that a bad difference? Higher gain or lower gain better for UST's?


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Yup I have heard of it as well. The gain is a bit higher at 0.8 instead of 0.5/0.6 I see on other screens. Is that a bad difference? Higher gain or lower gain better for UST's?


I think you get more "pop" on the picture but posted screen "gain" numbers can be deceiving. I'll let those with the XY Pet Crystal screen chime in, here. Like I said - - lots of happy users on this forum as well as the original Formovie Fengmi T1 thread where there are countless screen shots from m0j0 and others.









Formovie Fengmi T1


Just heard Wemax is releasing three laser UST projector based on ALPD 4.0 technology. The model will be T1 for USD2700. Anyone heard anything? Adding FAQ Section below - please message me new additions and I can add to it: Power Supply: 1. T1 has global power supply. It will work in both...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> I think you get more "pop" on the picture but posted screen "gain" numbers can be deceiving. I'll let those with the XY Pet Crystal screen chime in, here. Like I said - - lots of happy users on this forum as well as the original Fengmi T1 thread where there are countless screen shots from m0j0 and others.


Is the pop from a higher or lower gain though? Like what is the best thing for an ALR screen...higher or lower gain you know?


----------



## badboris

You’ll get increased brightness and highlights on higher gain screens but likely worse blacks and contrast. Vice versa with lower gain.

Lower gain CLR screen preferred for increased ambient light watching like during daytime. A bright high lumens projector can still look good with a low gain screen while improving blacks and contrast during the day. So it’s use/conditions dependent.

And an FYI, a pricey CLR screen isn’t needed for an UST if you have a fully light controlled HT room.


----------



## clipghost

badboris said:


> You’ll get increased brightness and highlights on higher gain screens but likely worse blacks and contrast. Vice versa with lower gain.
> 
> Lower gain CLR screen preferred for increased ambient light watching like during daytime. A bright high lumens projector can still look good with a low gain screen while improving blacks and contrast during the day. So it’s use/conditions dependent.
> 
> And an FYI, a pricey CLR screen isn’t needed for an UST if you have a fully light controlled HT room.


Got you, so I have a wall that has windows to the left of it (but none of them ever hit the screen) but there are still windows in the room I am in. I have ceiling lights but of course can turn off. I feel ALR is definitely what I need. Just a matter of picking the right screen. Seems like PET Crystal is a nice blend of good quality + price at the moment.


----------



## Ricoflashback

badboris said:


> You’ll get increased brightness and highlights on higher gain screens but likely worse blacks and contrast. Vice versa with lower gain.
> 
> Lower gain CLR screen preferred for increased ambient light watching like during daytime. A bright high lumens projector can still look good with a low gain screen while improving blacks and contrast during the day. So it’s use/conditions dependent.
> 
> And an FYI, a pricey CLR screen isn’t needed for an UST if you have a fully light controlled HT room.


We all have our own definition on what "looks good." I don't care what ALR screen you have - - the picture with ambient light is a major compromise. It doesn't look good in the daytime, period, IMHO. It's a washed out mess. The only debate is the degree of the washed out picture. It all depends on light control, as with regular throw projectors. I agree that a CLR or ALR screen isn't needed in a fully, light controlled setup. But like I've said many times before - - projectors are made for night viewing. That's where they shine. Sure, an ALR screen (dark material) can provide deeper blacks but at the expense of brightness and "pop." 

When we move into a house, I won't have space for a dedicated theater room. But I'd like to setup the living room as my theater room with the T1 projector with a 120" screen for primary use at night. I'll pickup a 83" OLED for the den or other room to watch during the daytime or in a combined kitchen/family room. That's the best solution for me. I know other folks are looking for a silver bullet during the daytime with only a UST projector but there isn't one.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> We all have our own definition on what "looks good." I don't care what ALR screen you have - - the picture with ambient light is a major compromise. It doesn't look good in the daytime, period, IMHO. It's a washed out mess. The only debate is the degree of the washed out picture. It all depends on light control, as with regular throw projectors. I agree that a CLR or ALR screen isn't needed in a fully, light controlled setup. But like I've said many times before - - projectors are made for night viewing. That's where they shine. Sure, an ALR screen (dark material) can provide deeper blacks but at the expense of brightness and "pop."
> 
> When we move into a house, I won't have space for a dedicated theater room. But I'd like to setup the living room as my theater room with the T1 projector with a 120" screen for primary use at night. I'll pickup a 83" OLED for the den or other room to watch during the daytime or in a combined kitchen/family room. That's the best solution for me. I know other folks are looking for a silver bullet during the daytime with only a UST projector but there isn't one.


I get where you are coming from but some people don't have that option. You're basically saying stop finding a solution for day time when the ALR screen is made for that purpose. You have a lower end one from what you have said, have you tried a higher end one or seen in person?

For me, it is between a great ALR screen that gets the job done, or a motorized one in front of an OLED. I don't have 2 separate spaces, so yes I will take time to HUNT for a good ALR screen that works in day time. If it doesn't exist, so be it.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> I get where you are coming from but some people don't have that option. You're basically saying stop finding a solution for day time when the ALR screen is made for that purpose. You have a lower end one from what you have said, have you tried a higher end one or seen in person?
> 
> For me, it is between a great ALR screen that gets the job done, or a motorized one in front of an OLED. I don't have 2 separate spaces, so yes I will take time to HUNT for a good ALR screen that works in day time. If it doesn't exist, so be it.


I'm saying that it's o.k. to search for a daytime solution if that's your only option. Invest in the best window treatments you can. All the screens you research will be a compromise during the daytime. The more you can control the light, the better the daytime picture will be. At night, it doesn't matter, IMHO. The picture is excellent with virtually all lenticular screens. The ultimate solution, like you referenced, is an electronic screen over an OLED TV. But that's best with a regular throw projector as the UST electronic screens are outrageously priced. 

My recommendation? Price out a XY Pet Crystal screen in 120" versus the Spectra and invest in window treatments. That will be the optimal way for you to save money and get the best picture you can under all conditions.

***Here you go. 120" Pet Crystal Screen via Amazon - 








Amazon.com: XY Screens Thin Bezel Ambient Light Rejecting Fixed Frame Projection Projector Screen, PET Crystal, 120-inch Diagonal 16:9 for Ultra Short Throw Projector : Electronics


Amazon.com: XY Screens Thin Bezel Ambient Light Rejecting Fixed Frame Projection Projector Screen, PET Crystal, 120-inch Diagonal 16:9 for Ultra Short Throw Projector : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> The Z9X and it’s Dolby Labs VS10 Engine is easily seen as superior to what the AppleTV puts out via Infuse. I have both and have gone back and forth comparing identical scenes on numerous occasions. It even tone maps much better.


Same here. I've been comparing my z9x, Shield, and ATV and the z9x is a clear winner. Even 480p and 1080p content looks better with it. Only negative I have on it right now is the remote/playback controls. They're a lot more clunky to me than either of the other two boxes. It'll get better with familiarity but still not as nice.


----------



## Deanodxb

clipghost said:


> Care to show any pics? Thanks!


I can take some pics of my screen hanging now and close ups of the material. In the meantime, you might want to check out the original XY Screen thread here: Xyscreen comparison review 

I have some pics in the thread of the quality issues I had with my order too.


----------



## lattiboy

clipghost said:


> I get where you are coming from but some people don't have that option. You're basically saying stop finding a solution for day time when the ALR screen is made for that purpose. You have a lower end one from what you have said, have you tried a higher end one or seen in person?
> 
> For me, it is between a great ALR screen that gets the job done, or a motorized one in front of an OLED. I don't have 2 separate spaces, so yes I will take time to HUNT for a good ALR screen that works in day time. If it doesn't exist, so be it.


I have a 120” Elite Screens Starbright CLR screen (retails for. $1500-2000) and a T1. It is VERY good with light control, but with even a few windows open, it just can’t compete with even a low end TV except for pure size.

I have a 23’x25’ converted garage with blackout windows. I often have a few windows open in the day so it isn’t a total cave, and while the picture is still totally watchable (as good as any projector could really hope to do), any dark content is washed out and contrast drops dramatically. You just can’t change how light is produced and reflected.


----------



## DARK FURY 88

I have a question. Regarding colour space option i saw that is fix with input signal dolby vision , grey selected off, with hdr 10 is grey selected auto. They are not selectable, only in sdr. I guess this is normal, or if I use some user mode they will be activated ? 
In general quality of the Theater is absolute fine. Great contrast, colours, bright, not pitch sharp, Image is very filmlike, not like a giant led tv, i would say more like a very good Oled , but with a 120 inch screen. It's as Gregory have written in his review seems to see a Jvc or Sony. For me is a compliment, and not a limit, indeed you get very similar images to these expensive brands, for only a small part of the money, getting much more.
I see absolute no sparkle, motionflow on low is fantastic, internal tone mapping with dolby vision and hdr works fine.


----------



## mirzank

I got a formovie theatre and oddly I got two remote controls. One with the YouTube and google assistant button, and one just simple one without any of that.
Just curious if this is normal - maybe one is for the theatre and one for t1. Never had a product ship with two remotes!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> One observation with this T1 UST projector - the lens area (clear cover) seems to get more dust and cat hair (we have cats) than a ceiling placed, regular throw projector. Not a problem but a more diligent effort is required to clean the lens to keep the picture as pristine as possible.


That’s an issue with all UST, aside from the periscope LS500
Use a Nikon lens pen - has a bristle size for “sweeping” as well as a pad size for more friction if necessary. Sells for about $10


----------



## swehr

mirzank said:


> I got a formovie theatre and oddly I got two remote controls. One with the YouTube and google assistant button, and one just simple one without any of that.
> Just curious if this is normal - maybe one is for the theatre and one for t1. Never had a product ship with two remotes!


I just purchased one too and I only got one remote with the YouTube button.


----------



## Dave Harper

mirzank said:


> I got a formovie theatre and oddly I got two remote controls. One with the YouTube and google assistant button, and one just simple one without any of that.
> Just curious if this is normal - maybe one is for the theatre and one for t1. Never had a product ship with two remotes!


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> That’s an issue with all UST, aside from the periscope LS500
> Use a Nikon lens pen - has a bristle size for “sweeping” as well as a pad size for more friction if necessary. Sells for about $10


Thanks. I have a similar product but I also ordered one from Amazon today.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Just confirming - at night, does anyone get the light beam reflection around the frame from your T1 UST projector?


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Just confirming - at night, does anyone get the light beam reflection around the frame from your T1 UST projector?


Do you mean around screen frame? That halo is a common effect of UST’s from what I know. That is why so many people want a thicker black velvet frame.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Do you mean around screen frame? That halo is a common effect of UST’s from what I know. That is why so many people want a thicker black velvet frame.


Yes - but not a "halo" above but a light frame of light above and on the sides of the frame. A thicker frame might work but there can be an issue with cutting off some of the picture due to the sharp projection angle. Stewart Filmscreen is testing a new frame/screen to work with UST PJ's to hopefully eliminate this issue. Otherwise, you'd have to have a black velvet wall or something around the thin bezel to absorb that light.


----------



## JRock3x8

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - but not a "halo" above but a light frame of light above and on the sides of the frame. A thicker frame might work but there can be an issue with cutting off some of the picture due to the sharp projection angle. Stewart Filmscreen is testing a new frame/screen to work with UST PJ's to hopefully eliminate this issue. Otherwise, you'd have to have a black velvet wall or something around the thin bezel to absorb that light.


is this the same light halo that people were complaining about with the early 4k projectors? where there's a gray border around the image?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JRock3x8 said:


> is this the same light halo that people were complaining about with the early 4k projectors? where there's a gray border around the image?


Yes - for me, on the left, center and right of the frame. I suspect that all UST projectors have this issue. It has to be the extreme angle of projection. If you're in a complete bat cave or very dark room (walls) - you might not see it as much. It's not noticeable in the day - - only at night with the lights off since we have light beige/cream walls.


----------



## JRock3x8

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - for me, on the left, center and right of the frame. I suspect that all UST projectors have this issue. It has to be the extreme angle of projection. If you're in a complete bat cave or very dark room (walls) - you might not see it as much. It's not noticeable in the day - - only at night with the lights off since we have light beige/cream walls.


I remember a lot of conversation about this a few years ago, people were NOT HAPPY.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - for me, on the left, center and right of the frame. I suspect that all UST projectors have this issue. It has to be the extreme angle of projection. If you're in a complete bat cave or very dark room (walls) - you might not see it as much. It's not noticeable in the day - - only at night with the lights off since we have light beige/cream walls.


I'm getting this. It's a bit out on the walls and ceiling, it's reflection line. I'm going to do my front wall and part of the side in black velvet for it. The velvet actually arrived yesterday and I was going to start building the stuff for it this weekend if the weather permits.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> I'm getting this. It's a bit out on the walls and ceiling, it's reflection line. I'm going to do my front wall and part of the side in black velvet for it. The velvet actually arrived yesterday and I was going to start building the stuff for it this weekend if the weather permits.


Out of curiosity, would a velvet wrapped frame - even on a thin bezel design, help mitigate any reflection? Or - the beam just shoots right over the frame?


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Out of curiosity, would a velvet wrapped frame - even on a thin bezel design, help mitigate any reflection? Or - the beam just shoots right over the frame?


I'm honestly not sure for a setup like yours. My screen is about 14" from the wall and floor rising so I can't go with a wrapped frame. With my set-up the reflection line that I get (usually on on really bright scenes) is about 2' to the sides and top of the screen. Since the room is only for movies I'm just going to cover the front wall with velvet.


----------



## bleuiko

clipghost said:


> God I keep going back and forth basically between doing the T1 with a fixed screen or a Vividstorm and throwing an OLED behind it. Anyone running a setup where they have a TV behind the projector?


Did you ever decide? I have an LG 77" C1 with 5.1 and I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to keep the TV in this config. The TV is on a console with its default stand and admittedly it leaves a big gap between it and the wall so maybe wall mount or a new base?

I'm thinking TV on wall, then Vividstorm on the console or on some weird leg thing that I have to built, then Formovie Theater on the console. My console might not be be deep enough to hold both consider the 120" distance of 13". If I can make it work, it will allow me to keep my center speakers below it inside the console at its current position.

Alternative is leave everything as is (TV on console) and put Vividstorm on floor in front on console and then projector in front of that; it'll extend that front area pretty deep into my family room space though and also I'm now stuck with the center speaker behind the screen (though Vividstorm does have a acoustically transparent version (black area).

I think I like the first version better so my Roomba doesn't run into the projector (first world problems) but I like the height of the screen in the second version. I'm still trying to find the best combo to pass the WF; negotiations are in progress.


----------



## JackB

Fox&304 said:


> That's a pretty mean comment, but I'll do it anyway :
> I think what Kraine means is that he's currently working on publishing settings based on the experience he now has of having calibrated several Theater, settings that he's hoping will work for "most of the people".


I didn't mean it to be mean, but if I was being paid for calibrating these projectors I think I would hesitate to give the settings away.


----------



## swehr

Enjoying the new projector. Thanks for all the tips.


----------



## 3sprit

What signal comes out of the optical output?
Dolby? DTS? 5+1?
Is it possible to set a downmix to 2CH in any way? 🤔


----------



## Aztar35

kraine said:


> I'm trying to make an easy and overall version with the experience acquired.


Hi, Gregory. In your review of the Formovie Theater, you wrote:

_"but not for the sharpness for which lacks a bit of precision in the image. It is for this reason that the new Formovie Theater, like the Fengmi T1 (but not for the same reasons) is awarded only one Gold Award... . But for my part my darling, the one that is not triple laser and does not have a Bowers & Wilkins sound system is still this famous Xiaomi laser Cinema 2 of late 2021!"_

Now that you've seen a few Formovie Theater samples, how close did the best one come to the sharpness of the Laser C2?

I've seen one Formovie Theater and the sharpness was not as good but I disregarded that demo because I was told that particular Formovie Theater was defective.

I do know my Laser C2 is extremely sharp, right on par with Dave Harpers' LK990, but I wanted to get your thoughts after factoring in sample variance for both the Laser C2 and the Formovie Theater.


----------



## beatdown

How do I focus the projector? When I go to the focus screen it has 2 blue arrows and focus words in each corner but how do you adjust it? Thanks


----------



## beatdown

beatdown said:


> How do I focus the projector? When I go to the focus screen it has 2 blue arrows and focus words in each corner but how do you adjust it? Thanks


It is out of focus in the upper left corner. I think this was a problem with the T1.


----------



## beatdown

JereyWolf said:


> I put velvet on the wall behind my screen and 2 feet on each of the side walls. It has an awesome effect of making the image appear to float on the wall rather than seeing the screen.... but it also makes the black floor much more noticeable when right next to any letterbox is black velvet. I did the whole wall for about $35 with remnant rolls and furniture tracks.
> 
> View attachment 3316126


How did you attach it?


----------



## kraine

Aztar35 said:


> Hi, Gregory. In your review of the Formovie Theater, you wrote:
> 
> _"but not for the sharpness for which lacks a bit of precision in the image. It is for this reason that the new Formovie Theater, like the Fengmi T1 (but not for the same reasons) is awarded only one Gold Award... . But for my part my darling, the one that is not triple laser and does not have a Bowers & Wilkins sound system is still this famous Xiaomi laser Cinema 2 of late 2021!"_
> 
> Now that you've seen a few Formovie Theater samples, how close did the best one come to the sharpness of the Laser C2?
> 
> I've seen one Formovie Theater and the sharpness was not as good but I disregarded that demo because I was told that particular Formovie Theater was defective.
> 
> I do know my Laser C2 is extremely sharp, right on par with Dave Harpers' LK990, but I wanted to get your thoughts after factoring in sample variance for both the Laser C2 and the Formovie Theater.


I think if your main concern is image sharpness then better get the Xiaomi cinema 2.


----------



## ProjectionHead

beatdown said:


> It is out of focus in the upper left corner. I think this was a problem with the T1.


The top left seems to have the “worst” focus as it did with the T1. It does sharpen up as the lens gets heated from being on so we suggest dial it in as best as you can then watch some content or leave it running for 15-30 min and the refocus.
While it may be slightly out of focus on the top left it’s only visible on small text or the focus patterns and should not be noticeable on any video content.


----------



## brandon32689

Hey guys I have skimmed this thread and watched the small amount of reviews on YouTube of the formovie theater. I have looked at numerous Reddit threads. I am still undecided. I am building a movie room /game room for the family. Room is 14x18 and 9 foot ceiling. Family loves to play Nintendo switch and PlayStation. Nothing competitive. We want at least a 120 inch screen. Right now we have a 77 inch oled and Sonos arc sub and 2 ones. I was dead set on getting the epson 5050ub because this seemed to check all the boxes. The room can me light controlled and we are painting it dark gray and black. We will sometimes have the lights on dim as we don’t plan to do everything in pitch black but from what I read the epson 5050ub will do okay in that situation to. Any advice for a complete new person to projectors.


----------



## 3sprit

Fox&304 said:


> Shield TV Pro is also a very good contender for local playback I've found. It plays everything, is fast and efficient (also, their 1080p AI Upscaling does wonders).


Is it better than the Zidoo Z9X?


----------



## Ricoflashback

kraine said:


> I think if your main concern is image sharpness then better get the Xiaomi cinema 2.


Or use a sharpening processor like the ones Denon has. My X6700 AVR did wonders in sharpening my BenQ TK700STi cable signal. I'm not sure if it did anything to my 4K native material but it was quite a difference. I might not be able to test it out on my International T1 since we're renting right now. But a very noticeable difference before. 

I also find the sharpness pretty good on the T1. I mean, I can still see the teeny hairs on CNN's Wolf Blitzer's beard and the pores of some faces on TV. Even with cable and no sharpening outside of the PJ itself, I can see bad makeup or sweating on news channels when interviewing or with streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple+, Paramount, HBO Max, BritBox and other channels. Yeah, I guess you can say I like to stream.


----------



## Ricoflashback

An observation - - I'm seeing colors and hues on my T1 that are different or better (?) than on my Sony A9S OLED TV. I mean it's very noticeable - - especially on fabrics and older cars.


----------



## Aztar35

Ricoflashback said:


> Or use a sharpening processor like the ones Denon has. My X6700 AVR did wonders in sharpening my BenQ TK700STi cable signal. I'm not sure if it did anything to my 4K native material but it was quite a difference. I might not be able to test it out on my International T1 since we're renting right now. But a very noticeable difference before.
> 
> I also find the sharpness pretty good on the T1. I mean, I can still see the teeny hairs on CNN's Wolf Blitzer's beard and the pores of some faces on TV. Even with cable and no sharpening outside of the PJ itself, I can see bad makeup or sweating on news channels when interviewing or with streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple+, Paramount, HBO Max, BritBox and other channels. Yeah, I guess you can say I like to stream.


Yes, these Formovie's are going to be pretty sharp --single chip outputting c. 8.3 million pixels. 

As far as processing, we need to be careful about substituting good optics for processing. The latter can add noise and exaggerate the gaps between pixels. That being said, I'm not familiar with the Denon one, so that may do a better job than others.


----------



## DesertDog

3sprit said:


> Is it better than the Zidoo Z9X?


No, the Zidoo is better than the Shield. Myself and a lot of the other users if you read through the z9x thread made the switch since the Zidoo is better for local content streaming. The best set-up right now is a zidoo for for local content and a shield or Apple TV for streaming and I'd give the ATV the edge there but that could be debated based on some personal prefs.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> An observation - - I'm seeing colors and hues on my T1 that are different or better (?) than on my Sony A9S OLED TV. I mean it's very noticeable - - especially on fabrics and older cars.


The Theater does have a wider color gamut


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> I think if your main concern is image sharpness then better get the Xiaomi cinema 2.


Are the Xiaomi Cinema 2 and the Fengmi C2, the same UST?


----------



## mirzank

Just set up the formovie theatre and a few observations. Projecting on a simple white wall.

absolutely great colours and picture as I wanted a no screen living room. On the Home Screen I can see the top part curved due to uneven wall but I don’t notice it during movie watching
the remote is quite terrible I think. It just generally seems non fluid. Sometimes it seems like it’s not registering a key press tben suddenly jumps. Had to be very careful typing my passwords to log into my accounts. Any solution for this (I’m on latest firmware).
how to change picture settings etc is quite a pain. Like you need to go into settings then projector settings or something then Picture. Is there some way to create shortcuts or move around the menus ?
minor issue but the space around the hdmi ports isn’t enough to plug in a firetv directly. Have to use an extension.
I also have the soft focus in left corner but really apart from seeing it on the focus screen it’s unnoticable in videos so not a problem. I may not even know it’s an issue if I wasn’t reading all the posts about it.

now a general question:

can anybody suggest the best settings generally (not just colour). What I’m finding is all sorts of settings like mpeg noise reduction, dnr or something. I turned it off including memc but wondering what the general recommended settings are.
also which mode should I set it and forget. Is it office , vivid night etc ?
any other suggested changes ?


----------



## JereyWolf

beatdown said:


> How did you attach it?


Furniture tacks, just pressed into the drywall by hand.


----------



## Aztar35

Ricoflashback said:


> An observation - - I'm seeing colors and hues on my T1 that are different or better (?) than on my Sony A9S OLED TV. I mean it's very noticeable - - especially on fabrics and older cars.


I couldn't find the gamut spec for your Sony OLED. Let's say it's p3 capable; both your Formovie and A9S, if properly calibrated to p3, should display those colors the same for content graded to DCI-p3.

The difference you may be seeing could be due to calibration, or another thing that comes to mind is greater color luminance from the tri-lasers. Then there is the event that if your A9S is limited to p3 but you find content that exceeds p3, which the Formovie can process with its wide color gamut, as Brian already pointed out above.


----------



## Aztar35

MRJAZZZ said:


> Are the Xiaomi Cinema 2 and the Fengmi C2, the same UST?


No. Xiaomi also had a plain C2, a predecessor to Xiaomi Laser C2.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> how to change picture settings etc is quite a pain. Like you need to go into settings then projector settings or something then Picture. Is there some way to create shortcuts or move around the menus ?


On this point, if you press the settings button on the remote (gear on the top right, about 1 o'clock, of the pad) it brings up a bottom bar with a bunch of options. One of them is picture which takes you right in to the picture settings. It's quicker than going into the android settings and navigating them.


----------



## 3sprit

MRJAZZZ said:


> Are the Xiaomi Cinema 2 and the Fengmi C2, the same UST?


No.


----------



## beatdown

how do you adjust the focus from the focus screen?


----------



## beatdown

ProjectionHead said:


> The top left seems to have the “worst” focus as it did with the T1. It does sharpen up as the lens gets heated from being on so we suggest dial it in as best as you can then watch some content or leave it running for 15-30 min and the refocus.
> While it may be slightly out of focus on the top left it’s only visible on small text or the focus patterns and should not be noticeable on any video content.


But HOW do you dial it in?


----------



## Movie_geek

Was able to set up my new Formovie last night. It is my first projector and initial impressions were really positive. Brian and projectorscreen were great answering questions along the way. : 

1) Thank you to everyone to gave the top about where to hold the remote during setup. That would have driven me insane. 
2) The colors are fantastic. Even when I don't blackout the room the picture is really watchable.. when I _do_ blackout the light I need to turn down the brightness otherwise it is almost too bright.
3) I am highly sensitive to soap opera effect and moderately sensitive to RBE. I had to turn motion blue (MECE or whatever they call it) completely off because even low looked fake. Only time I notice RBE is when there is fast moving white text on a black/dark background.
4) With motion effect turned off 24 fps streaming content still looks great to me. I did notice scenes seemed to have a strange skip 1 or 2 times during a movie. I don't know if that was just streaming lag though so I'll try a HD disc tonight. 
5) I have no idea how to calibrate or adjust the settings and there are so many of them... Time to scan this and the T1 thread and see what has worked for people. 
6) I was concerned about going with a 120 inch image from 9 feet out but I think it will be perfect for the immersion level I wanted. 
7) Android TV on the projector is good but does some weird things... for example you can only stream Vudu in SD? Amazon/HBO/paramount/disney+ all do UHD no problem. 
8) The projector is quite... way quieter than I expected to the point even sitting close you can't hear it when content is playing. 
9) Sound out of the unit is way better than I expected. Will make it easier to hold out for Black Friday sales to buy a surround sound system.


----------



## madmax777

please tell me why when I turn on a movie with HDR it shows very dark? is this how it should be?
without MEMC, the video slows down. Should MEMC always be enabled? what is the disadvantage when it is turned on?


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> please tell me why when I turn on a movie with HDR it shows very dark? is this how it should be?


It's purposefully made that way to sell HD Fury products. Just kidding. I ended up turning off HDR & DV via my Nvidia Shield Pro and of course cable is 1080p upscaled to 4K. Standard Dynamic Range looks absolutely wonderful on the T1 - - from cable sources to streaming. I've been on the record talking about the disappointment of HDR and DV with projectors. Even TV's. So - - if you're dead set on getting HDR or DV - - you'll need to purchase the HD Fury Vertex2 to setup LLDV to get a decent picture. Dave Harper has a lot of info on the Vertex2 in this thread and others.

P.S. - make sure to set your Color Space to "On" as opposed to "Auto."


----------



## madmax777

I turned on the movie via SMB from my computer


----------



## ProjectionHead

beatdown said:


> But HOW do you dial it in?


Hit left and right on the remote to adjust. Try going way left at first until you pass a good focal point and work your way back right


----------



## JackB

ProjectionHead said:


> Hit left and right on the remote to adjust. Try going way left at first till uounpast am good focal point and work your way back right


Brian, have you and Dave figured out how this projector adjusts focus? When you lens shift way left and then back right it suggest it is mechanical. Is it? Other comments in the thread suggest it is electronic. How do you electronically focus a projector? Seems impossible.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JackB said:


> Brian, have you and Dave figured out how this projector adjusts focus? When you lens shift way left and then back right it suggest it is mechanical. Is it? Other comments in the thread suggest it is electronic. How do you electronically focus a projector? Seems impossible.


I think the “electrical” is meant by using the remote to mechanically adjust the focus as opposed to a manual dial


----------



## Brajesh

The only way to get it as sharp as possible looks to be to open the unit & slightly pushing the focus ring to the edge. Only issue is voiding warranty; waiting a few weeks myself to (maybe) try it. Have tested T1 & a couple of Theater units, and none focus as well as single-laser UST's I've tried (original Xioami, 1S, Wemax A300).

Of course T1/Theater blow all those other UST's out of the water for colors & improved HDR (namely DV) experience.


----------



## JackB

ProjectionHead said:


> I think the “electrical” is meant by using the remote to mechanically adjust the focus as opposed to a manual dial


So are you saying that there is a button on the remote that would allow me to adjust the focus mechanically after I have alighned the projector during setup? The same as my JVC does it? Brajesh seems to think the only mechanical method is to take the cover off.


----------



## MDesigns

JackB said:


> So are you saying that there is a button on the remote that would allow me to adjust the focus mechanically after I have alighned the projector during setup? The same as my JVC does it? Brajesh seems to think the only mechanical method is to take the cover off.


Did you click the link on the Brajesh post? The post tells that the projector has electrically adjustable mechanical focus(like JVC's) on focus screen with the remote, but on his unit the lenses focus adjustment was partly "stuck" and needed a manual push. It caused half screen to be not in perfect focus. Hopefully that is not a feature in all units, since it would be quite a design/manufacturing flaw.


----------



## JackB

MDesigns said:


> Did you click the link on the Brajesh post? The post tells that the projector has electrically adjustable mechanical focus(like JVC's) on focus screen with the remote, but on his unit the lenses focus adjustment was partly "stuck" and needed a manual push. It caused half screen to be not in perfect focus. Hopefully that is not a feature in all units, since it would be quite a design/manufacturing flaw.


Thank you for that info. I did not click his link because I had read that post way back when and didn’t remember the part about the button control.


----------



## beatdown

JackB said:


> Thank you for that info. I did not click his link because I had read that post way back when and didn’t remember the part about the button control.


When I press the blue arrow on focus screen nothing happens. It doesn't change the focus.


----------



## beatdown

I am going to return it. I'm not paying over $3000 for a projector that the focus doesn't even work.


----------



## clipghost

beatdown said:


> I am going to return it. I'm not paying over $3000 for a projector that the focus doesn't even work.


Where did you buy it from? Maybe a bad batch? Hope they have a good return policy.


----------



## rooterha

beatdown said:


> I am going to return it. I'm not paying over $3000 for a projector that the focus doesn't even work.


No worries - not like it's something that you can even notice when watching a movie or show but I understand the concern!


----------



## Brajesh

Assuming you brought your Formovie unit from Brian & ProjectorScreen.com, you're in the best of hands. They've gone out of their way to send me (and anyone requesting a pre-screening) as blob-free & as well-focused unit as possible. I may still open up my unit as some point to get that top right, and especially top-left, focus as best as it can be, but for now, too busy enjoying actual content.


----------



## Dave Harper

beatdown said:


> When I press the blue arrow on focus screen nothing happens. It doesn't change the focus.


Look real close at the top left and/or right “Focus” word and inside the black letters. Adjust fully left and fully right using the arrows and you should see some fuzzy color billed into the black background inside the letters, usually green. Once you see that use it as a reference to set it where the absolute least amount of this colored fussiness occurs within the black parts of the letters. 

You DO have to make sure it is set as best as humanly possible physically first though. 

If this doesn’t do anything then contact your dealer.


----------



## luisalbertokid

Hello all, greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Looking foward to know more about this projector! Concerning the Zidoo player @Dave Harper mentioned: it seems to be a very interesting media player, with lots of adjustments for HDR, but I've read people complaining its black levels are washed out and so is the contrast. Is that so? What do you guys think of the Zidoo Z9X? Sorry for the silly questions but we do not have this kind of gear here in Brazil and we basically buy everything blindly on the internet, so any advice would be great! 😉


----------



## DesertDog

luisalbertokid said:


> Hello all, greetings from Brazil 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
> Looking foward to know more about this projector! Concerning the Zidoo player @Dave Harper mentioned: it seems to be a very interesting media player, with lots of adjustments for HDR, but I've read people complaining its black levels are washed out and so is the contrast. Is that so? What do you guys think of the Zidoo Z9X? Sorry for the silly questions but we do not have this kind of gear here in Brazil and we basically buy everything blindly on the internet, so any advice would be great! 😉


The Z9X is amazing for local streaming. Anyone complaining about the black levels being washed out doesn't have something setup correctly. I think they might have slightly been washed out when I first hooked it up but that went away as soon as I adjusted the picture settings for what the T1G* needs. Everything looks amazing with it. 

T1G is my name now for the Foremovie Theater. Typing "Theater" or "Global" for it sucks so I'm going with it for "T1 Global". I'm open to other suggestions. We just need a better name.


----------



## Deanodxb

Deanodxb said:


> I can take some pics of my screen hanging now and close ups of the material. In the meantime, you might want to check out the original XY Screen thread here: Xyscreen comparison review
> 
> I have some pics in the thread of the quality issues I had with my order too.


OK Here are some shots of the screen. This is mid afternoon in Dubai - quite bright outside, as you can imagine.

Room set up - side light from patio doors:









Screen on (BB on Netfilx):















Differences with Dynamic Contrast setting (I always keep this setting off):















Close up showing dodgy corner of screen frame and ALR screen texture:









The ALR screen works great - very watchable with side lighting in the room but the picture does wash out even with an ALR screen if you have overhead lighting on. I don't know the current pricing for the XY PET Crystal ALR but they are value for money and the flaws in the frame are not noticeable when viewing. All things considered, I would by an XY Screen again, I think.


----------



## Deanodxb

clipghost said:


> Do you mean around screen frame? That halo is a common effect of UST’s from what I know. That is why so many people want a thicker black velvet frame.


Yep - normally to the top. Its a common issue with the 'trendy' skinny frame screens. But its very thin and faint reflect - not really a distraction unless the room is really dark.


----------



## clipghost

Deanodxb said:


> OK Here are some shots of the screen. This is mid afternoon in Dubai - quite bright outside, as you can imagine.
> 
> Room set up - side light from patio doors:
> 
> View attachment 3324246
> 
> 
> Screen on (BB on Netfilx):
> 
> View attachment 3324247
> View attachment 3324248
> 
> 
> Differences with Dynamic Contrast setting (I always keep this setting off):
> 
> View attachment 3324249
> View attachment 3324250
> 
> 
> Close up showing dodgy corner of screen frame and ALR screen texture:
> 
> View attachment 3324251
> 
> 
> The ALR screen works great - very watchable with side lighting in the room but the picture does wash out even with an ALR screen if you have overhead lighting on. I don't know the current pricing for the XY PET Crystal ALR but they are value for money and the flaws in the frame are not noticeable when viewing. All things considered, I would by an XY Screen again, I think.


Looking good! What’s the cabinet you’re using? I like the gap in the middle, Looks good.


----------



## Deanodxb

mirzank said:


> the remote is quite terrible I think. It just generally seems non fluid. Sometimes it seems like it’s not registering a key press tben suddenly jumps. Had to be very careful typing my passwords to log into my accounts. Any solution for this (I’m on latest firmware).




Congrats - the T1 remote is definitely slower than the ATV4K remote but I have not found it any better or worse than say an Amazon Firestick remote or LG 'magic' remote. I use the T1 remote for everything except fast forwarding, which I go back to ATV for.



mirzank said:


> how to change picture settings etc is quite a pain. Like you need to go into settings then projector settings or something then Picture. Is there some way to create shortcuts or move around the menus ?


There is a dedicated button on the remote (right side, bottom) that goes straight into settings while source is still playing. Its very easy, you'll get the hang of it quickly.



mirzank said:


> can anybody suggest the best settings generally (not just colour). What I’m finding is all sorts of settings like mpeg noise reduction, dnr or something. I turned it off including memc but wondering what the general recommended settings are.


If you are projecting straight onto a wall your settings are going to be super-individual. My suggestion is to start with some of the RGB colour recommendations in the original T1 thread (Lattiboy's helped me a lot) and then play around with View Mode, brightness, contrast and saturation until you are happy with what you see on your wall. But you really should get a screen... Projecting on a wall is like having a 911 and only driving to Spinneys!


----------



## Deanodxb

clipghost said:


> Looking good! What’s the cabinet you’re using? I like the gap in the middle, Looks good.


Its a custom wall unit. Details on the changes in another thread: Cabinets and Consoles for UST Projectors


----------



## Deanodxb

JackB said:


> So are you saying that there is a button on the remote that would allow me to adjust the focus mechanically after I have aligned the projector during setup? The same as my JVC does it? Brajesh seems to think the only mechanical method is to take the cover off.


What Dave means is go into the Focus menu in the T1 settings and you'll see the test pattern. Moving left and right on the circle button on the remote changes the focus setting. I have mine pressed all the way left for the best focus. No need to keep tapping the buttons - hold them down and the focus will change. The T1 is known to be soft in the top left corner, even when dialed in but its not noticeable, unless you are using your T1 for spreadsheets. You may only get an improvement in the left corner if you are willing to open up the unit and push the focus ring.


----------



## tnaik4

badboris said:


> You’ll get increased brightness and highlights on higher gain screens but likely worse blacks and contrast. Vice versa with lower gain.
> 
> Lower gain CLR screen preferred for increased ambient light watching like during daytime. A bright high lumens projector can still look good with a low gain screen while improving blacks and contrast during the day. So it’s use/conditions dependent.
> 
> And an FYI, a pricey CLR screen isn’t needed for an UST if you have a fully light controlled HT room.


Its improved blacks not contrast, no screen can improve black level and increase white level at the same time.


----------



## madmax777

beatdown said:


> I am going to return it. I'm not paying over $3000 for a projector that the focus doesn't even work.


I also thought the focus setting wasn't working for me. press and hold the button left or right. you will see in 10-15 seconds how the focus will start to change. a very long process.


----------



## nickasim

I have a question for the more experienced here. 
Is it possible to have a floor-standing electric ALR screen mounted upside down from the ceiling?
I know, in such a way, the screen loses its ALR capabilities, but does such an installation really impact the PQ during night watching (pure dark watching)?
In addition, does such an installation affect the proper operation of the electric screen mechanism?
I use the screen in my living room, so I would like to install it in a specific constraction I made on the ceiling because I want to avoıd to move the screen back and forth when I want to see a movie.


----------



## madmax777

nickasim said:


> I have a question for the more experienced here.
> Is it possible to have a floor-standing electric ALR screen mounted upside down from the ceiling?
> I know, in such a way, the screen loses its ALR capabilities, but does such an installation really impact the PQ during night watching (pure dark watching)?
> In addition, does such an installation affect the proper operation of the electric screen mechanism?
> I use the screen in my living room, so I would like to install it in a specific constraction I made on the ceiling because I want to avoıd to move the screen back and forth when I want to see a movie.


if you flip the screen, leave the projector at the bottom, you won't see anything. there will be an effect like in the photo.


----------



## nickasim

madmax777 said:


> if you flip the screen, leave the projector at the bottom, you won't see anything. there will be an effect like in the photo.


Thanks. So the only way to do so is to also mount the projector on the ceiling. Everything upside down


----------



## ProjectionHead

JackB said:


> So are you saying that there is a button on the remote that would allow me to adjust the focus mechanically after I have alighned the projector during setup? The same as my JVC does it? Brajesh seems to think the only mechanical method is to take the cover off.


No, the focus is adjusted mechanically inside the housing by virtue of receiving an electric signal from the remote.
You cannot adjust it without the remote unless you open up unit and manipulate the focus with your hands, which would void warranty and possibly introduce other problems such as dust, etc.


----------



## beatdown

clipghost said:


> Where did you buy it from? Maybe a bad batch? Hope they have a good return policy.


Projector Screen.com


----------



## beatdown

beatdown said:


> Projector Screen.com


It works!!!!! It is REALLY SLOW to react. I had to hold the button down for a good 15 seconds to start it. Love the projector.


----------



## Aztar35

beatdown said:


> Projector Screen.com


You're in good hands then. I've had excellent buying experience with them, no exception.


----------



## Aztar35

beatdown said:


> It works!!!!! It is REALLY SLOW to react. I had to hold the button down for a good 15 seconds to start it. Love the projector.


There you go. Good to hear.


----------



## ProjectionHead

beatdown said:


> It works!!!!! It is REALLY SLOW to react. I had to hold the button down for a good 15 seconds to start it. Love the projector.


Good stuff! Please PM me with your order number so we can tag you in our system as an AVSForum user.
Also keep in mind the “leave a review rebate” on our website.
Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

Now that I'm back in business w/a new Theater unit, scouring this thread for best settings. Thought I'd first try with HDFury VRROOM in the chain because I have a second projector, BenQ HT2050A, solely for 3D use, connected to the TX1 port, which downscales to 1080p. The HDFury is in Mode 3: Matrix mode as suggested by an expert in their Discord group. TX0 is connected to Formovie Theater.

When I apply @Dave Harper 's HDFury settings here, my nVidia Shield TV refuses to enable Dolby Vision, and keeps going back to 4K/60 HDR. Is this normal?If not, anyone else w/HDFury & Shield TV experience this and have a solution?


----------



## JDChawk55

Another first time projector owner that pulled the trigger after the ProjectorScreen showdown! Waiting for my screen to ship but loving the unit so far. I've seen a number of posts with detailed picture tweaks using third-party tools, is there a way to interpret these results for use in the on-board picture settings area? I have a light controlled room and will be using a 120" Spectra screen. 

ProjectorScreen's review page is all I've been able to find so far:












Remote Fix
One additional note in case someone runs into the same problem. After initial setup and system updates, my remote was unable to connect to the unit. Unplugging, waiting, and plugging it back in would fix the issue until the unit was asleep/powered down again. Using a keyboard and mouse I was able to forget my remote device and initiate a factory reset. Once done and remote was re-paired, it's been consistently working.


----------



## DesertDog

JDChawk55 said:


> Another first time projector owner that pulled the trigger after the ProjectorScreen showdown! Waiting for my screen to ship but loving the unit so far. I've seen a number of posts with detailed picture tweaks using third-party tools, is there a way to interpret these results for use in the on-board picture settings area? I have a light controlled room and will be using a 120" Spectra screen.
> 
> ProjectorScreen's review page is all I've been able to find so far:
> View attachment 3324407
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remote Fix
> One additional note in case someone runs into the same problem. After initial setup and system updates, my remote was unable to connect to the unit. Unplugging, waiting, and plugging it back in would fix the issue until the unit was asleep/powered down again. Using a keyboard and mouse I was able to forget my remote device and initiate a factory reset. Once done and remote was re-paired, it's been consistently working.


Here's link's to @Dave Harper's settings that he posted earlier in the thread. One of them is for HDFurry settings that he, and a few of us, are using in conjunction with the T1G. I used them as my starting point. Things looked great straight up with them but I did tweak contrast, brightness, etc. a little based on test patterns since our environments don't match up. 









Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


If you go for a UST the screen is very important. If you choose a good UST projector but an average screen the image won’t be good. Quality is less important for a standard/long throw. I can understand folks not wanting to spend a great amount on a projector screen. But UST Projectors have...




www.avsforum.com












Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Ill check those out- appreciate it. I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

JDChawk55 said:


> Another first time projector owner that pulled the trigger after the ProjectorScreen showdown! Waiting for my screen to ship but loving the unit so far. I've seen a number of posts with detailed picture tweaks using third-party tools, is there a way to interpret these results for use in the on-board picture settings area? I have a light controlled room and will be using a 120" Spectra screen.
> 
> ProjectorScreen's review page is all I've been able to find so far:
> View attachment 3324407
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remote Fix
> One additional note in case someone runs into the same problem. After initial setup and system updates, my remote was unable to connect to the unit. Unplugging, waiting, and plugging it back in would fix the issue until the unit was asleep/powered down again. Using a keyboard and mouse I was able to forget my remote device and initiate a factory reset. Once done and remote was re-paired, it's been consistently working.


Thanks for sharing the tip with the remote. You are going to love the pairing of this with the Spectra screen.
Please PM me your order number so I can tag you as an AVSForum member for future promos (same goes for everyone here).
Thanks!


----------



## RickMes

So, while I am waiting for my Theater which I will test against the egg white (I know, I know!) wall of my living room before deciding which screen and size to buy I have been doing some research around the forum and the internet looking for the best options for my limited budget around €1000. I have come by the Mi Ambient Light Rejecting Projector Screen 100" which seems exactly the same as the Formovie Fresnel Ultra-thin ALR Projection Screen 100-inch which is within my budget and actually sold in my country.

Anyone has or had any experience with either one of these screens (again, I think they are the same)? From what I've been reading, if using mostly in light controlled room, I should go for a CLR Lenticular screen and not a ALR Fresnel, right?
These ones and the Elite Aeon CLR are currently top in my list

Thanks in advance for anyone's help.


----------



## TheTonik

I am assuming a Sony VPL-XW5000ES would have better picture quality than the Theater, but do you guys feel it would be 2x better picture quality given it's twice the price? (Light controlled room and I can accommodate either system.)


----------



## Aztar35

TheTonik said:


> I am assuming a Sony VPL-XW5000ES would have better picture quality than the Theater, but do you guys feel it would be 2x better picture quality given it's twice the price? (Light controlled room and I can accommodate either system.)


Not in all areas will the Sony XW5000ES have better image quality: --Motion? Dolby Vision? Wide color gamut c. full BT2020? Single chip precision sharpness? Brightness? --all favor the Fengmi Formovie Theater. And the Theater has some level of electronic focus, regardless of how limited it is, whereas the XW5000ES is fully manually lens controlled.

Where I would expect the XW5000ES to be superior would be with native and dynamic contrast as well as its native 4096 4K resolution.


----------



## luisalbertokid

Sorry to ask that (it has probably been mentioned before) but which is the DMD chip for this particular projector?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> Now that I'm back in business w/a new Theater unit, scouring this thread for best settings. Thought I'd first try with HDFury VRROOM in the chain because I have a second projector, BenQ HT2050A, solely for 3D use, connected to the TX1 port, which downscales to 1080p. The HDFury is in Mode 3: Matrix mode as suggested by an expert in their Discord group. TX0 is connected to Formovie Theater.
> 
> When I apply @Dave Harper 's HDFury settings here, my nVidia Shield TV refuses to enable Dolby Vision, and keeps going back to 4K/60 HDR. Is this normal?If not, anyone else w/HDFury & Shield TV experience this and have a solution?


Make sure you are on HDMI 2.1 for your Shield (EDID). With a power failure or even unplugging the T1 - that setting can be lost. You don’t want “Auto.”


----------



## Deanodxb

RickMes said:


> So, while I am waiting for my Theater which I will test against the egg white (I know, I know!) wall of my living room before deciding which screen and size to buy I have been doing some research around the forum and the internet looking for the best options for my limited budget around €1000. I have come by the Mi Ambient Light Rejecting Projector Screen 100" which seems exactly the same as the Formovie Fresnel Ultra-thin ALR Projection Screen 100-inch which is within my budget and actually sold in my country.
> 
> Anyone has or had any experience with either one of these screens (again, I think they are the same)? From what I've been reading, if using mostly in light controlled room, I should go for a CLR Lenticular screen and not a ALR Fresnel, right?
> These ones and the Elite Aeon CLR are currently top in my list
> 
> Thanks in advance for anyone's help.


I doubt the Formovie is a proper Fresnel screen - maybe the marketing is off. ALR and Fresnel screens are different: Lenticular Projector Screen Vs. Fresnel Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throws 

Fresnel screens are usually pre-assembled as the screen should not be rolled and are much more expensive. Try it and report back!


----------



## RickMes

Deanodxb said:


> I doubt the Formovie is a proper Fresnel screen - maybe the marketing is off. ALR and Fresnel screens are different: Lenticular Projector Screen Vs. Fresnel Projector Screen for Ultra Short Throws
> 
> Fresnel screens are usually pre-assembled as the screen should not be rolled and are much more expensive. Try it and report back!


Yes, that's what I thought. That, and this illustration from their product page, which looks like a lenticular screen to me:










Well, still a couple of weeks waiting for my Theater to arrive. If I decided for one of these screens I'll report back (finger's crossed!).

Thanks!


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> Continued:


Hey, any luck with some settings without the HD fury device? Thanks Dave


----------



## JRock3x8

luisalbertokid said:


> Sorry to ask that (it has probably been mentioned before) but which is the DMD chip for this particular projector?


pretty sure it's the standard TI 0.47" chip that most "4k" projectors use.


----------



## JRock3x8

Brian, I think I know the answer to this but why is the PJ listed at Amazon for $3199 with you as the seller?

Our company does business with Amazon and their chargeback fees are BRUTAL.

nvm - you answered it :

Question:
Why the $299 price discrepancy over ordering direct from your website?
Answer:
Pricing on Amazon and other channels may not always be in synch.
By Projector Screen .Co. SELLER  on August 15, 2022

also (and I'm only on my first cup of coffee) but I think it's a $199 price difference.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> Brian, I think I know the answer to this but why is the PJ listed at Amazon for $3199 with you as the seller?
> 
> Our company does business with Amazon and their chargeback fees are BRUTAL.
> 
> nvm - you answered it :
> 
> Question:
> Why the $299 price discrepancy over ordering direct from your website?
> Answer:
> Pricing on Amazon and other channels may not always be in synch.
> By Projector Screen .Co. SELLER  on August 15, 2022
> 
> also (and I'm only on my first cup of coffee) but I think it's a $199 price difference.


The Theater right now is being launched at ProjectorScreen.com at a special introductory price which may be below the $3,499 MSRP that Formovie.com is selling for direct.

Pricing is expected to increase in September above the current introductory price.

Amazon should not be expected to be the lowest price on the Theater and the pricing there will likely fluctuate more frequently than in other channels.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

ProjectionHead said:


> The Theater right now is being launched at ProjectorScreen.com at a special introductory price which may be below the $3,499 MSRP that Formovie.com is selling for direct.
> 
> Pricing is expected to increase in September above the current introductory price.
> 
> Amazon should not be expected to be the lowest price on the Theater and the pricing there will likely fluctuate more frequently than in other channels.


Do know when in September the Formovie will go up to 3499.00, also how long is the warranty?.
Thanks


----------



## ProjectionHead

MRJAZZZ said:


> Do know when in September the Formovie will go up to 3499.00, also how long is the warranty?.
> Thanks


Some time after Labor Day but may not go up to the full msrp.
3 year warranty when purchased through ProjectorScreen.com.


----------



## JRock3x8

Feedback for formovie - I'm just one guy but I'm not buying until Feb of 2023 and a price increase really kills my desire to buy.

But I also understand the current environment of pretty rough worldwide inflation - the business I work for is certainly raising prices so I get it.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> Feedback for formovie - I'm just one guy but I'm not buying until Feb of 2023 and a price increase really kills my desire to buy.
> 
> But I also understand the current environment of pretty rough worldwide inflation - the business I work for is certainly raising prices so I get it.


Price isn’t going up, introductory sale may just be changing. 
It is and will continue to be $3,499 msrp and that price via Formovie direct.


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> Price isn’t going up, introductory sale may just be changing.
> It is and will continue to be $3,499 msrp and that price via Formovie direct.


no offense, but that's marketing speak for price increase.

Again, I'm just one guy but ... whatever...


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> no offense, but that's marketing speak for price increase.
> 
> Again, I'm just one guy but ... whatever...


Sales do end 🤷‍♂️
maybe there will be something better for you whenever you are ready


----------



## Nicodevil

Question bluetooth


----------



## Nicodevil

Hi everybody I have a question about the Bluetooth.
I am able to associate the projector with my smartphone, but it's not recognized as a speaker or an audio system and i can't send on it some music.

Do you have already seen that? An Idea for correction?

Thanks in advance


----------



## badboris

ProjectionHead said:


> Sales do end 🤷‍♂️
> maybe there will be something better for you whenever you are ready





ProjectionHead said:


> Sales do end 🤷‍♂️
> maybe there will be something better for you whenever you are ready


Brian, hmmmm… are you surreptitiously eluding to a newer and fantastically better model coming out then? Should all of us prospective buyers wait? Spill the beans, man!


----------



## ProjectionHead

badboris said:


> Brian, hmmmm… are you surreptitiously eluding to a newer and fantastically better model coming out then? Should all of us prospective buyers wait? Spill the beans, man!


Not at all, just saying that if the sale ending means that they will be turned off from buying in February that hopefully they find something else they find more agreeable.


----------



## dibitri123

Is there a significant difference between the T1 and the theater? I am on the fence with the two and if the later isn't worth the premium, I'll just go with the T1


----------



## lattiboy

dibitri123 said:


> Is there a significant difference between the T1 and the theater? I am on the fence with the two and if the later isn't worth the premium, I'll just go with the T1


I have the T1, and the lack of CMS and HDMI issues would lead me to buy the theater if I could do it over. Not enough for me to sell and rebuy, but if I could start over


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> Hey, any luck with some settings without the HD fury device? Thanks Dave


Stay tuned to projectorscreen.com. They won’t be posted here first.


----------



## rjyap

dibitri123 said:


> Is there a significant difference between the T1 and the theater? I am on the fence with the two and if the later isn't worth the premium, I'll just go with the T1


If you are using madVR or any external DTM, then you can save some money going for T1. If most of your content is streaming then theater would be the obvious choice. Then there's other consideration on local support. If I'm from US, most likely I would get from Brian for 3 years warranty and support.


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> Stay tuned to projectorscreen.com. They won’t be posted here first.


Nice one thanks! Will keep a look out for sure. cheers Dave


----------



## Ricoflashback

I wonder what Formovie has up their sleeve for any new UST projectors. I'm very happy with the International T1 and it should last me three to five years, knock knock, without any problems. Who knows - maybe by then, the contrast will double or triple and they might even have lens memory for CinemaScope screens. 

If you're an AVS Forum fan, you will no doubt have seen some threads on JVC projectors and even the latest JVC versus Sony versus Epson (LS 12000) shootout conducted by "The Screening Room" in Colorado Springs, Colorado. For those of us who are more price conscious AND who cannot accommodate a regular throw projector - - the advances in UST technology are very welcomed.


----------



## dibitri123

rjyap said:


> If you are using madVR or any external DTM, then you can save some money going for T1. If most of your content is streaming then theater would be the obvious choice. Then there's other consideration on local support. If I'm from US, most likely I would get from Brian for 3 years warranty and support.


I would just be hooking it up to my home theater PC


----------



## Ricoflashback

Wow - I can’t believe the colors from the Formovie Global T1. Even cable looks good. I was watching one show (a foreign police station scene) and the colors from the chairs, table, file folders and of course, the clothing was phenomenal. Even Terminator: Dark Fate on cable looked fantastic. It’s almost as if you’re holding the camera and recording the movie. If the naive contrast is around 4,400 to 1 for the T1 - a JVC projector at 80,000 to 1 must be a sight to see. But I believe the T1 states 107% of BT.2020 and a JVC NX7 states around 90% of BT.2020. At any rate - great colors out of the box with some tweaking via the ”User” mode. Lots of pop and punch with vivid hues.


----------



## Dave Harper

I think you mean about 90+% of DCI-P3 for the JVC, without the WCG filter anyway. That’s way further away than what the T1 can do!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> I think you mean about 90+% of DCI-P3 for the JVC, without the WCG filter anyway. That’s way further away than what the T1 can do!


This is what I referenced from the “Projector Reviews” review: “The DLA-NX7 can also reproduce a wider color gamut. JVC claims the DLA-NX7 delivers 100% of the DCI-P3 color space (about 90% BT.2020). Note: This is achieved via a color filter which will reduce the FPJ’s lumens output slightly. Lastly JVC claims that the DLA-NX7 brightness (1,900 lumens) is slightly higher than the DLA-NX5 (1,800 lumens)”.
Maybe he had it wrong? JVC DLA-NX7 4K Projector Review- Summary - Projector Reviews


----------



## MDesigns

Ricoflashback said:


> This is what I referenced from the “Projector Reviews” review: “The DLA-NX7 can also reproduce a wider color gamut. JVC claims the DLA-NX7 delivers *100% of the DCI-P3 color space (about 90% BT.2020). *Note: This is achieved via a color filter which will reduce the FPJ’s lumens output slightly. Lastly JVC claims that the DLA-NX7 brightness (1,900 lumens) is slightly higher than the DLA-NX5 (1,800 lumens)”.
> Maybe he had it wrong? JVC DLA-NX7 4K Projector Review- Summary - Projector Reviews


That is not correct. I couldn't find the actual percentage, BT2020 is much bigger and DCI-P3 is only ~70(?) % of BT2020. Sony and JVC is far behind here covering less than 90 % of DCI-P3 without filters and Sonys don't even have a filter.










Also a good read about the gamut measurement here, I think some of the measured gamut numbers include out of gamut parts that is IMO not correct: What Does a >100% Rec.709 Color Gamut Mean?


----------



## TheTonik

If I have a fully light controlled room, is an ALR screen still recommended? Every UST projector review I watch, everyone says to get an ALR screen - but then they all are using it in a bright living room. I have 0 light in my room so what is recommended?


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

TheTonik said:


> If I have a fully light controlled room, is an ALR screen still recommended? Every UST projector review I watch, everyone says to get an ALR screen - but then they all are using it in a bright living room. I have 0 light in my room so what is recommended?


I think it's still recommended because of the light coming from the bottom, rather than straight on like a traditional projector. But I could be totally wrong about that. I'm sure someone more qualified will have an answer for you.


----------



## ProjectionHead

TheTonik said:


> If I have a fully light controlled room, is an ALR screen still recommended? Every UST projector review I watch, everyone says to get an ALR screen - but then they all are using it in a bright living room. I have 0 light in my room so what is recommended?


Is your ceiling treated a dark color by screen or white? If it’s white and you don’t use a specialized screen you will have a lot of reflections on it from a traditional screen which will affect image quality and contrast.


----------



## avtoronto

Is there any consensus on which capability produces an objectively better image: HDR (albeit as limited as this is with projectors) versus rendering the greater colour gamut that the tri-laser UST projectors are capable of?


----------



## lysoleverywhere

Is the ForMovie projector noticeably better than competing projectors side by side?


----------



## TheTonik

ProjectionHead said:


> Is your ceiling treated a dark color by screen or white? If it’s white and you don’t use a specialized screen you will have a lot of reflections on it from a traditional screen which will affect image quality and contrast.


Ceiling is painted black with Sherwin Williams Emerald Tricorn Black. Should I still do ALR you think?


----------



## lattiboy

TheTonik said:


> Ceiling is painted black with Sherwin Williams Emerald Tricorn Black. Should I still do ALR you think?


I would say you’re fine. My room has eggshell tan and the difference between a regular screen and CLR was dramatic, even with all other light being equal. If you have non-glossy black paint I think you’ll be fine with a standard screen.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> We are planning on photo/video of each unit with settings published in our write up after the event


Are there any news? 🙂


----------



## 3sprit

Dave Harper said:


> Stay tuned to projectorscreen.com. They won’t be posted here first.


Where? 🤔🙂


----------



## ProjectionHead

TheTonik said:


> Ceiling is painted black with Sherwin Williams Emerald Tricorn Black. Should I still do ALR you think?


If you always plan on keeping lifts off, it won’t be necessary. I’d suggest a lower gain screen such as the Stewart Greymatte 0.7, but if you already have a 1.0 gain screen, you will likely be fine, especially if you are going up to the 150” this projector is capable of.
If you ever plan on putting the lights on for casual viewing (sports, tv, having parties, etc), go with the ALR


----------



## ProjectionHead

lysoleverywhere said:


> Is the ForMovie projector noticeably better than competing projectors side by side?


It is better in many regards, but worse in some. Check out the thread on the 2022 LaserTV Showdown (link in my signature) to see what the judges thought.


----------



## mirzank

I have a few settings I can’t seem to find on the formovie theatre if someone could help. For Apple TV I believe everyone says to set it to SD vs UHD. I haven’t tried my Apple TV yet but on my firetv stick I don’t know where the setting is. Is this something to set on the projector or fire rb ? If firetv where is the setting ?

also how do I set the 2.0 vs 2.1 version of hdmi ? If I click the settings button on remote while playing a video and go to source; I see my sources listed but clicking on them doesn’t show anything.


----------



## Ricoflashback

lattiboy said:


> I would say you’re fine. My room has eggshell tan and the difference between a regular screen and CLR was dramatic, even with all other light being equal. If you have non-glossy black paint I think you’ll be fine with a standard screen.


I forgot - do you have a regular screen or a CLR screen? 

Also - I see the terms ALR and CLR thrown around alot. And even an ALR CLR screen. 

Anybody know the difference or are they all the same type of sawtooth, lenticular style? Is there a difference between an ALR and CLR screen?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I forgot - do you have a regular screen or a CLR screen?
> 
> Also - I see the terms ALR and CLR thrown around alot. And even an ALR CLR screen.
> 
> Anybody know the difference or are they all the same type of sawtooth, lenticular style? Is there a difference between an ALR and CLR screen?


CLR (ceiling light rejecting) is a subset or type of ALR (ambient light rejecting).
CLR is (I believe) a trademarked term by Elite for their lenticular surfaces but has become a generic descriptor.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> CLR (ceiling light rejecting) is a subset or type of ALR (ambient light rejecting).
> CLR is (I believe) a trademarked term by Elite for their lenticular surfaces but has become a generic descriptor.


Thanks, Brian. Much appreciated. I think the general composition of ALR screens - lenticular surfaces are the somewhat the same. I'm not sure if there is a big difference in any lenticular surface but there might be based on manufacturing processes. For example - comparing the Spectra to my "El Cheapo" WEMAX screen. Now - - the frame is a different matter. I believe the Spectra has a black velvet, wrapped frame - - which should help with any light refractions from the steep angle of UST projectors. Lastly - - I've seen anywhere from .5 to .7 on screen gain - - which makes me wonder if there really is the ability to vary the gain on this type of surface.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Thanks, Brian. Much appreciated. I think the general composition of ALR screens - lenticular surfaces are the somewhat the same. I'm not sure if there is a big difference in any lenticular surface but there might be based on manufacturing processes. For example - comparing the Spectra to my "El Cheapo" WEMAX screen. Now - - the frame is a different matter. I believe the Spectra has a black velvet, wrapped frame - - which should help with any light refractions from the steep angle of UST projectors. Lastly - - I've seen anywhere from .5 to .7 on screen gain - - which makes me wonder if there really is the ability to vary the gain on this type of surface.


I’ve explained the differences in lenticular surfaces and showed images of actual samples demonstrating their different properties multiple times.


----------



## ProjectionHead

This may not be as helpful to y’all as it is to those who have never heard of the Theater, but here is our video first-look review:


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> I’ve explained the differences in lenticular surfaces and showed images of actual samples demonstrating their different properties multiple times.


Yes - I've seen the small, checkboard pic you've posted. Maybe it's my eyes but it doesn't help very much. Too small of an image. Personally, it would be better served if you only used three surfaces - - your favored Spectra, maybe a XY Pet Crystal Screen and an Elite CLR screen that would be easier to visually see. But hey - I'm just a consumer. What do I know?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - I've seen the small, checkboard pic you've posted. Maybe it's my eyes but it doesn't help very much. Too small of an image. Personally, it would be better served if you only used three surfaces - - your favored Spectra, maybe a XY Pet Crystal Screen and an Elite CLR screen that would be easier to visually see. But hey - I'm just a consumer. What do I know?


Click the image or attachment, it’s actually quite large when not embedded in the post


----------



## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> Anybody know the difference or are they all the same type of sawtooth, lenticular style? Is there a difference between an ALR and CLR screen?


 ALR vs. CLR Screens: A 101 Guide - Pointer Clicker


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> This may not be as helpful to y’all as it is to those who have never heard of the Theater, but here is our video first-look review:


the marketing shot at 1:40 - I HATE THAT. NO UST looks like that with that much ambient light and EVERY UST uses that shot in their marketing. Ugh - sorry pet peeve.

I guess I disagree on backlit remotes - when you're in a fully dark room, any light coming from anywhere else other than the screen is really distracting.

I'm over here salivating for a 150" ALR/CLR screen. Who's ass do we have to kick to get this done?

I feel targeted by the way he said "enthusiASt" 

enjoyed the video


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> ALR vs. CLR Screens: A 101 Guide - Pointer Clicker


Thanks. Since I don't have any overhead light, I'm still somewhat confused by this article. To boil it down - - it's the difference between reflected away light (ALR) and absorbed light (CLR.) So - I'm not sure which one would look better or if the differences are too small EXCEPT for direct overhead light (canister lights?) which I don't have and would never have on if I did.


----------



## 3sprit

Instead of painting the walls black…








FRIDANS Tenda a rullo oscurante, nero, 200x195 cm - IKEA IT


FRIDANS Tenda a rullo oscurante, nero, 200x195 cm Lo speciale bastone ti permette di posizionare la tenda esattamente dove vuoi. Il rivestimento oscurante impedisce alla luce di entrare nella stanza, così al mattino puoi dormire fino a tardi.




www.ikea.com


----------



## Ricoflashback

JRock3x8 said:


> the marketing shot at 1:40 - I HATE THAT. NO UST looks like that with that much ambient light.
> 
> Ugh - sorry pet peeve.
> 
> I guess I disagree on backlit remotes - when you're in a fully dark room, any light coming from anywhere else other than the screen is really distracting.


I don't see how a backlit remote can be distracting as the light would only be on when you're using it.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> I'm over here salivating for a 150" ALR/CLR screen. Who's ass do we have to kick to get this done?


Spectra Projection actually just sent me a 150”!
Will be testing it out with the Theater and others sometime in the next 2 weeks.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Thanks. Since I don't have any overhead light, I'm still somewhat confused by this article. To boil it down - - it's the difference between reflected away light (ALR) and absorbed light (CLR.) So - I'm not sure which one would look better or if the differences are too small EXCEPT for direct overhead light (canister lights?) which I don't have and would never have on if I did.


CLR both reflects light away from the ceiling (lenticular design) and absorbs light via the negative gain.
Traditional ALR screens for standard throw are incompatible with USTs due to their angular reflective nature.
CLR has become the “easy” term to use to talk about ALR for UST


----------



## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> So - I'm not sure which one would look better or if the differences are too small EXCEPT for direct overhead light (canister lights?) which I don't have and would never have on if I did.


ARL is for a long throw projector.
CLR is for UST.
In the first case the light of the projector is "frontal", in the second it comes from below with a very small angle.


----------



## mirzank

For the life of me I can’t figure out how to change my hdmi between 2.0 and 2.1. Can someone tell me how to do this ? Using firetv 4k and I can go into inputs but hdmi edit version is set to auto and greyed out.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> I feel targeted by the way he said "enthusiASt"
> 
> enjoyed the video


“EnthusiASSED” 🎯

j/k 😘


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> ARL is for a long throw projector.
> CLR is for UST.
> In the first case the light of the projector is "frontal", in the second it comes from below with a very small angle.


Confusing article at best. The easiest distinction would be not to use ALR/CLR in the same fashion. But that ship has sailed. How about UST whatever and Regular Throw whatever. Or, as I've seen with descriptions of ALR screens - "Not to be used with a UST projector."

"To use an ALR projector screen, position the projector, so it’s perpendicular to the screen." -- Ah, a UST PJ is perpendicular to the projector and is "centered." Most regular throw projectors are centered to the screen and perpendicular.

"A CLR projector screen is a Ceiling Light Rejecting projector screen that absorbs ambient light, especially overhead lighting."

"To use a CLR projector screen, position the projector, so it’s centered and perpendicular to the screen." Ah - that can be both a regular throw projector and a UST projector, as they are both centered and perpendicular to the screen. 

Lastly - - I have zero overhead light on and most of the ambient light, I'd venture, in folks setups is from windows to the side or back. Why anyone would have lights on overhead watching a projector isn't comprehensible. Heck, I've never watched a TV that way, either.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> For the life of me I can’t figure out how to change my hdmi between 2.0 and 2.1. Can someone tell me how to do this ? Using firetv 4k and I can go into inputs but hdmi edit version is set to auto and greyed out.
> View attachment 3326246


Check the Fire 4K and ensure that it's set to 4K/60 Hz. Do you have that option? When my Nvidia Shield was set to 4K/30 Hz, the EDID was greyed out and set to "Auto EDID," just like yours. 

Make sure you are watching the Fire 4K before you jump back to the T1 settings.


----------



## nuevo_eph

ProjectionHead said:


> Click the image or attachment, it’s actually quite large when not embedded in the post


Thanks for posting these again. The Spectra Vantage and Dark UST look great for a room with some light.


----------



## 3sprit

What is an Ambient Light Rejecting Screen?


Choosing the right projection screen is the first step to getting the most enjoyment from your home entertainment system. This article will explain light rejecting screens and the two types of ambient light rejecting screens, the ALR and CLR.




www.benq.com




.


----------



## mirzank

Ricoflashback said:


> Check the Fire 4K and ensure that it's set to 4K/60 Hz. Do you have that option? When my Nvidia Shield was set to 4K/30 Hz, the EDID was greyed out and set to "Auto EDID," just like yours.
> 
> Make sure you are watching the Fire 4K before you jump back to the T1 settings.


Yep in display my firetv is set to “auto (up to 4k ultra hd)”. I switched it to manually 2160p 60hz but the option is still greyed out.

One other question: I read previously that it’s best to set display to SD instead of uhd/Dolby vision as uhd is too dark (which I’m finding). Is the sd setting set in the firetv/atv/other device or is it somewhere in the formovie menus?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Click the image or attachment, it’s actually quite large when not embedded in the post


Thanks. A little easier to see but I still think a three reference pic with actual scenes would be better. A couple comments - the Grandview Dynamique (no longer available) was a heckuva screen. It's the only one where the brown looks dark brown and not blackish. The DarkUST2 seems to have a nice balance between dark and light.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> Yep in display my firetv is set to “auto (up to 4k ultra hd)”. I switched it to manually 2160p 60hz but the option is still greyed out.
> 
> One other question: I read previously that it’s best to set display to SD instead of uhd/Dolby vision as uhd is too dark (which I’m finding). Is the sd setting set in the firetv/atv/other device or is it somewhere in the formovie menus?


I'm not sure about the FireTV and what options you have. I turned off HDR/DV with my Nvidia Shield Pro (I believe the Roku Ultra also has this option) and haven't looked back with an exceptional SDR picture with all content. Much brighter, great colors and pop. I know this goes against the idea of purchasing a UST projector with DV capability but that's my experience. Dave Harper has commented about LLDV via the HD Fury Vertex2 and I might try that someday again but it was too complicated and fugly looking with my simple setup. I sent it back to Amazon.

I don't see any option within the T1 settings to disable HDR or DV.


----------



## mirzank

Another odd issue I noticed that I haven’t seen mentioned before. It seems none of the changes to the picture mode I make seem to be saving. Specifically in the user setting, I keep turning off memc, dnr, Mpeg noise reduction and it randomly seems to reset even if I haven’t turned off the projector.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> Another odd issue I noticed that I haven’t seen mentioned before. It seems none of the changes to the picture mode I make seem to be saving. Specifically in the user setting, I keep turning off memc, dnr, Mpeg noise reduction and it randomly seems to reset even if I haven’t turned off the projector.


Are you switching between picture modes? You can set all of those separately if it's SDR, HDR, or DV. They're also set per input for all 3.


----------



## TheTonik

Would the MadVR Envy work with the ForMovie? Would it make much of a difference? Never used MadVR stuff.


----------



## mirzank

DesertDog said:


> Are you switching between picture modes? You can set all of those separately if it's SDR, HDR, or DV. They're also set per input for all 3.


So you’re saying each input has a sdr hdr and dv setting and within each setting, the 7 or 8 picture modes can be individually configured ?? So in total you have 3 x 3 x 7 so 63 individual settings ? Damn. Okay I totally understand you probably want that so you don’t have to switch the picture mode if you switch inputs and offers much more customisability but could probably be simpler to have user1 user2 and user3 settings with each input remembering which user setting it was on!!! if I understand correctly.
also You mentioned sdr hdr and dv but can I choose those or are they automatically selected based my Apple TV or firetv or other device is outputting ?


----------



## mirzank

Is there some place where we can check what each of the settings in the projector does ? There are so many! I checked the manual on device but doesn’t go into detail.


----------



## 3sprit

Fox&304 said:


> Yeah it seems weird, it's both dull and completely blown out in the highlights.
> Also, do you have two DV modes ? Dolby Vision Dark and Dolby Vision Bright? I saw elsewhere that those were supposed to not be there on the Theater version, and only on the T1? Because I have them on mine ...


 Does anyone have an answer to this question?
Are there or aren't these two options on the Theater?
Thank you


----------



## Diarf22

3sprit said:


> Does anyone have an answer to this question?
> Are there or aren't these two options on the Theater?
> Thank you


I have both DV Bright and Dark modes on my Theater.


----------



## 3sprit

Thanks, which one do you use and how do you choose it?


----------



## Diarf22

3sprit said:


> Thanks, which one do you use and how do you choose it?


I don't. DV Dark is sadly broken with regards to tone mapping highlights in brighter 4,000 nit content. DV Bright retains all highlights and is working appropriately but looks flatter than DV Dark. 

I've instead opted to use the LLDV tone mapping through my Vertex 2 and it's largely worked well. I do, however, get some push in reds and pinks that is particularly difficult to remedy. All in all, LLDV is notably superior to DV Bright except for this issue, but if I can't fix it I will probably return to using native DV and living with a bit less contrast.

It's better than watching scenes where it looks like all the men in a particular scene are wearing vibrant shades of lipstick lol.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> So you’re saying each input has a sdr hdr and dv setting and within each setting, the 7 or 8 picture modes can be individually configured ?? So in total you have 3 x 3 x 7 so 63 individual settings ? Damn. Okay I totally understand you probably want that so you don’t have to switch the picture mode if you switch inputs and offers much more customisability but could probably be simpler to have user1 user2 and user3 settings with each input remembering which user setting it was on!!! if I understand correctly.
> also You mentioned sdr hdr and dv but can I choose those or are they automatically selected based my Apple TV or firetv or other device is outputting ?


Yup, that's exactly what it is. You can see this in action easy by opening the picture settings and switch picture modes. You'll see the brightness, contrast, etc below it change as you flip between them. I only use Movie for the picture mode though and only 1 of the HDMI inputs since I'm going through my AVR. So in practice it's only 3 configs to set up for me and they're almost the same for me. For all of them I started with Dave's settings and then tweaked them based on test patterns.

For the SDR, HDR, DV switching that happens automatically based on the source that you're playing. The projector will auto switch when it detects the format. So play a DV video to get the DV settings to tweak it, HDR for the HDR settings, etc.


----------



## MrGrimble

I'm trying to find a way to square the circle as my center speaker is positioned perfectly where the GT1 could go. 
(Yeah, I know it's not an ALR screen. It's just a temporary solution). 








I can't place it above the speaker as I'll need to lift my screen higher and strain my neck while watching movies. 

Does anyone here use the GT1 with a dedicated center speaker and/or knows how to tackle this scenario?


----------



## Dave Harper

Diarf22 said:


> I don't. DV Dark is sadly broken with regards to tone mapping highlights in brighter 4,000 nit content. DV Bright retains all highlights and is working appropriately but looks flatter than DV Dark.
> 
> I've instead opted to use the LLDV tone mapping through my Vertex 2 and it's largely worked well. I do, however, get some push in reds and pinks that is particularly difficult to remedy. All in all, LLDV is notably superior to DV Bright except for this issue, but if I can't fix it I will probably return to using native DV and living with a bit less contrast.
> 
> It's better than watching scenes where it looks like all the men in a particular scene are wearing vibrant shades of lipstick lol.


What do you have set in the HDFury’s HDR and DV tabs, BT2020 or DCI-P3?


----------



## Diarf22

Dave Harper said:


> What do you have set in the HDFury’s HDR and DV tabs, BT2020 or DCI-P3?


Hey Dave,

Reading my previous post, I realize I did a poor job by implying it's an LLDV issue only. It isn't. On my projector, it's an issue with playing HDR in an HDR 10 picture mode, as opposed to DV Bright. Native DV color is fine, but anything in the HDR 10 modes, whether static HDR 10 or using LLDV, is far too saturated on my particular unit. 

I played around with settings tonight using Spears & Munsil patterns (I sold my i1 Display 3 Pro so don't have anything to calibrate with at the moment) and realized I could largely eliminate the issue without desaturating the rest of the colors by dropping Red saturation to 41 and Flesh Tone to 47. So, yeah, nothing to do with LLDV, which is set to BT2020 in the HDR and DV tabs and is working incredibly well.

While I have your ear though, thanks for all the help you provide on these forums! It's really much appreciated. And, on the subject of LLDV, I have some interesting findings that you or some other owners might be willing to try/verify.

When I first tested LLDV with this particular projector, I used 10,000 nits on both HDR and DV tabs but realized it clipped some detail and started trying other combinations. The one I've settled on that makes DV content look spectacular is 4,000 nits in both the HDR and DV tabs.

I would have thought this would clip highlights using HDR 10 modes since the Theater hard clips at right around 1,000 nits in HDR 10 from what I can tell. However, in DV content, using the 4,000 nits makes the content look amazing and even challenging scenes like Aquaman Ch. 6 retain highlight detail without clipping. However, forcing LLDV on HDR 10 content with the 4,000 nits setting still hard clips in high nit content such as wand battles that seem to exceed 4,000 nits toward the end of Fantastic Beasts.

In effect, it seems LLDV tone maps incredibly with the theater up to at least 4,000 nits on DV content, but perhaps it's still clipping at 1,000 or so if you force it on regular HDR 10, non-DV content. With 1,000 nits chosen instead, both non-DV and native DV content tone map well but I strongly prefer the stunning highlights of 4,000 nits on DV content. I'm using a 1.0 StudioTek 100 screen, so I imagine those with CLR screens could benefit from these brighter highlights given the lower screen gain.

I've had a range of projectors that I've used LLDV with, and this one at 4,000 nits has probably been my favorite projector for HDR!

Apologies in advance for the wall of text, but hopefully those who are similarly inclined to tinker with settings could get some benefit out of trying 4,000 nits for DV as well.


----------



## Dave Harper

In noticed that clipping as well with HDR to LLDV. What I’ve settled on now is 10,000 nits in the HDR/AVI Max luminance box and ~300 nits in the DV tabs max luminance box. It seems to work well with both DV AVS HDR10.


----------



## Diarf22

Dave Harper said:


> In noticed that clipping as well with HDR to LLDV. What I’ve settled on now is 10,000 nits in the HDR/AVI Max luminance box and ~300 nits in the DV tabs max luminance box. It seems to work well with both DV AVS HDR10.


Thanks, Dave! Looking forward to seeing how those nit levels work for my setup. It would definitely be ideal to have it tone map perfectly for all HDR content compared to my current settings.


----------



## Dave Harper

Diarf22 said:


> Thanks, Dave! Looking forward to seeing how those nit levels work for my setup. It would definitely be ideal to have it tone map perfectly for all HDR content compared to my current settings.


I kind of settled on 200 after some back and forths last night.


----------



## mirzank

Has anyone managed to use an android key mapper to remap some of the keys on the remote ?
for example I find the TV button that takes me to the android media app useless. I’d like to map this to the menu key (I can use this remote for my firetv but this one doesn’t have the menu button to bring up alternative options on apps).
also the bookmark key at the topleft doesn’t seem to do anything. I want to map this to inputs menu. 
has anyone tried a keymapper and if so which one works well?


----------



## Brajesh

@Dave Harper , thanks much for your suggested HDFury & Theater settings. On the latter, the only one I couldn't find is...









Went into each here, but not seeing above...









Then, for these, what are the suggested settings? For MEMC, I have medium for now...


----------



## Brajesh

On a different topic, I upgraded from a Silver Ticket 150" (which I had to mask to 144" to avoid reflection onto the screen from the bottom beveled frame) to an Akia 145" edge-free and PQ looks great w/Theater. I can't do ALR/CLR due to my dual PJ set-up, in which I have a BenQ HT2050A for 3D needs. Pretty impressed w/the Akia for the bargain price...


----------



## Junglahot

Hi guys,
I been following this post for a while now, and I am debating between a few models of screens.

A)SALFS221WSF-Sapphire Ambient Light Fixed Frame Screen 221cm

This would be only temporary until I safe for a fabulus screen.

This screen is 0.4 gain and my living room is quite bright but I feel the picture will be too dark since most of the model Out there are between 0.6 and 0.8 on the gain section.
B) Wayfair.co.uk - Shop Furniture, Lighting, Homeware & More Online | Wayfair.co.uk

Is that one going too down even though it says it is 93% alr and designed for any type of laser proyectors? It is also white and the gain is says between 1.1 and 1.2...


Any thoughts?


----------



## DesertDog

Brajesh said:


> @Dave Harper , thanks much for your suggested HDFury & Theater settings. On the latter, the only one I couldn't find is...


This one isn't in the picture settings. From the main settings menu you have to go into the projector settings and it's in there. It took me a minute to find it too.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> I kind of settled on 200 after some back and forths last night.


Have you settled on any other changes since you posted your calibrations? I've only played with the picture so far a little bit off of them due to time constraints. My work schedule dragged out setting everything up longer than I liked and I started with recalibrating my sound system and bass first since I know how to do that well. The picture stuff I'm a lot more green on.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> @Dave Harper , thanks much for your suggested HDFury & Theater settings. On the latter, the only one I couldn't find is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Went into each here, but not seeing above...
> View attachment 3327359
> 
> 
> Then, for these, what are the suggested settings? For MEMC, I have medium for now...
> View attachment 3327361


Low Blue Light and Color Space should both be ON. Other one can remain at Auto. 



DesertDog said:


> Have you settled on any other changes since you posted your calibrations? I've only played with the picture so far a little bit off of them due to time constraints. My work schedule dragged out setting everything up longer than I liked and I started with recalibrating my sound system and bass first since I know how to do that well. The picture stuff I'm a lot more green on.


Oh sorry. These aren’t specifically for the ForMovie. Those are in general with all the recent projectors I’ve tested and calibrated it on recently since then. I haven’t had the HDFury on a ForMovie since that time, so what I posted there could still be the best. I would say try both and then pick the one that performs best on all the scenes we know are good for testing.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Diarf22 said:


> I don't. DV Dark is sadly broken with regards to tone mapping highlights in brighter 4,000 nit content. DV Bright retains all highlights and is working appropriately but looks flatter than DV Dark.


It's so strange that the Hisense projectors with Dolby Vision have this exact same issue.


----------



## Fox&304

To people reading this thread and scared that HDR/DV will be **** unless you use some MadVR solution or anything, don't be stopped by those discussions. Some people have (and should have) some incredibly high setups/expectations, but HDR/DV sure look stunning with a few tweaks even without any adjunction of additional hardware.


----------



## kraine

100% agree and this is even more true with the new firmware.


----------



## kraine

In fact the « new » DV Bright mode applies the appropriate level of brightness and contrast, as it is supposed to do.


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> In fact the « new » DV Bright mode applies the appropriate level of brightness and contrast, as it is supposed to do.


What does the new firmware brings ?


----------



## Fox&304

kraine said:


> In fact the « new » DV Bright mode applies the appropriate level of brightness and contrast, as it is supposed to do.


That's the one I use also. Tweaked a bit the DV Settings to put a higher gain than my screen is in order to tone down a bit some crazy highlights (still think that setting isn't correct on Formovie's part), and have been very satisfied by the calibration.


----------



## kraine

Top « Dark mode », bottom « Bright Mode »

PS : Without additionnal hardware


----------



## Diarf22

kraine said:


> Top « Dark mode », bottom « Bright Mode »
> 
> PS : Without additionnal hardware
> 
> View attachment 3327557


That looks great! Even DV Dark in your screenshot retains way more highlight detail than I've seen on my projector. So I'm hoping DV Dark now does better with the beach scene in Aquaman where all the detail in the waves are clipped as they wash ashore.

To be clear, are these results with a new firmware that has brought these changes to the two DV modes? Thanks for the valuable insight!


----------



## kraine

This is the result of the tests with the new Formovie Theater that I receive. From the ignitions, the projector updates its firmware. I did not have these options DV Bright and Dark with my test model.
CLR Vividstorm screen - Panasonic UHD 820 deck and Formovie Theater projector. Nothing else in the system and I didn't make any other correction except the choice of the DV Bright mode (that's how the Dolby Vision management should work, without user intervention).

Be careful though and set the HDMI EDID to 2.1 and do not leave it on auto.


----------



## mirzank

kraine said:


> Be careful though and set the HDMI EDID to 2.1 and do not leave it on auto.


I read in the thread here that the formovie theatre also has the edid handshake issue as the Chinese t1. I myself have had the issue. But I just heard back from customer support and they are sayingwhile t1 has this issue the formovie does not. So maybe they have fixed this ?


----------



## Diarf22

kraine said:


> This is the result of the tests with the new Formovie Theater that I receive. From the ignitions, the projector updates its firmware. I did not have these options DV Bright and Dark with my test model.
> CLR Vividstorm screen - Panasonic UHD 820 deck and Formovie Theater projector. Nothing else in the system and I didn't make any other correction except the choice of the DV Bright mode (that's how the Dolby Vision management should work, without user intervention).
> 
> Be careful though and set the HDMI EDID to 2.1 and do not leave it on auto.


This is extremely helpful! I'll have to go back and check to see if anything has changed. Most of our setup is the same, except I have a 1.0 gain screen and an Oppo 203. I did notice the DV tone mapping issues via the projector's built in streaming too, so I'm hopeful a firmware change resolves those issues for me. Regardless, it seems like the issue is fixed for prospective buyers who receive new units which is an awesome thing to see.




mirzank said:


> I read in the thread here that the formovie theatre also has the edid handshake issue as the Chinese t1. I myself have had the issue. But I just heard back from customer support and they are sayingwhile t1 has this issue the formovie does not. So maybe they have fixed this ?


I don't think that's correct, honestly. It hasn't been in my case, at any rate. I have run into the issue a few times with the global version and have had to manually switch the EDID back to 2.1 after it reverts back to auto and glitches out. The last time it happened was just two nights ago. Maybe I am running behind on the latest firmware though?


----------



## Diarf22

BatmanNewsChris said:


> It's so strange that the Hisense projectors with Dolby Vision have this exact same issue.


It really is bizarre, especially since the clipping you posted in the Hisense thread looked almost identical to what I've seen on my Formovie. Although it appears the issue is now fixed for newly shipped Theater projectors at the very least. I'm going to check on whether mine has been updated and is now tone mapping correctly. I'll report back as soon as I can. Hopefully Hisense sorts it out as well!


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Diarf22 said:


> It really is bizarre, especially since the clipping you posted in the Hisense thread looked almost identical to what I've seen on my Formovie. Although it appears the issue is now fixed for newly shipped Theater projectors at the very least. I'm going to check on whether mine has been updated and is now tone mapping correctly. I'll report back as soon as I can. Hopefully Hisense sorts it out as well!


Yep! I was going to say, based on the screenshots that @kraine just posted it seems to be fixed for the Formovie. Hopefully Hisense is next.


----------



## mirzank

Diarf22 said:


> I don't think that's correct, honestly. It hasn't been in my case, at any rate. I have run into the issue a few times with the global version and have had to manually switch the EDID back to 2.1 after it reverts back to auto and glitches out. The last time it happened was just two nights ago. Maybe I am running behind on the latest firmware though?


yep I also had the issue 2 days ago and mine is after the firmware update. I did read quite a few posts here that the issue exists so I’m surprised by supports answer. I thinkmaybe people just didn’t write in about the issue assuming the t1 fix would also fix the formovie. I think more of us need to write in.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Oh sorry. These aren’t specifically for the ForMovie. Those are in general with all the recent projectors I’ve tested and calibrated it on recently since then. I haven’t had the HDFury on a ForMovie since that time, so what I posted there could still be the best. I would say try both and then pick the one that performs best on all the scenes we know are good for testing.


Ah, ok. cool. Thanks. Hopefully I'll be able to start playing with the video settings more like that tonight. I was going to last night but ended up laying down the stick on velvet flocking on the GT1's shelf which had a glossy finish. The projector looks good "floating" there now but it had the big bonus of me having to move the projector and relevel it which was a win. I have it perfectly squared up to the screen now and the slight placement changes helped with the focus. The top corner patterns are both looking sharper now than they were before. So it was worth the time. These things are nice and finicky with their placement.


----------



## j-0

Fox&304 said:


> To people reading this thread and scared that HDR/DV will be **** unless you use some MadVR solution or anything, don't be stopped by those discussions. Some people have (and should have) some incredibly high setups/expectations, but HDR/DV sure look stunning with a few tweaks even without any adjunction of additional hardware.


I find Dune unwatchable with Dolby Vision Dark mode. I have the latest firmware. What tweaks do you recommend?

I tried Dolby Vision Bright mode, but when I used it, the contrast (and black levels) became very poor (while watching Dune).


----------



## kraine

Bright Dolby Vision is a good beginning


----------



## kraine

Error


----------



## Dr. Feelgood

Anyone can recommend setting for a AppleTV 4K and the Theater, please. Thank you.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Silly question. I just received my Formovie Theatre today I'm waiting on my Spectra screen to come in. It's currently projecting on a black wall. Will I see a huge improvement.


----------



## DesertDog

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Anyone can recommend setting for a AppleTV 4K and the Theater, please. Thank you.


I have mine set to 4k SDR YCbCr 4:4:4 with match and match frame rate to on. If I used the HDR or DV settings I get a very washed out picture for the UI. Having the match range on will cause it to switch into its HDR or DV mode when playing content in that format. I haven't had issues with videos being washed out, only the UI.

Also make sure you switch the projector from Auto to 2.1 for the HDMI setting.


----------



## DesertDog

Two new questions from me. Does anyone know what the GT1's power consumption is? I can't find that listed anywhere. 

When looking for the power number I noticed that the Formovie website lists "Speckle elimination technology" as a feature. Are there any settings for this or is something that's automatically on? I do get a little bit of laser speckle with my set-up. Mainly on certain solid colors when the screen is static. The YouTube icon when I'm on the AppleTV's springboard is usually good for it. I haven't really noticed it while something is playing so it's not a huge deal but I figured I'd ask in case I missed turning on a switch.


----------



## ba_crane

Can anyone comment on how the T1 global compares to the contrast and DTM image of nx5? A member on here said it’s just as good as nx5; I have a hard time buying that.


----------



## j-0

Dave Harper said:


> My one gripe with this model and the Chinese version is that it seems like they are using a cheap lens compared to many other USTs. No matter how much I use the focus adjustment it just never seems to get razor sharp like the AWOL or recently reviewed LGHU915QE units.


Hi Dave,

I have this exact same issue.

Did you ever find a way to fix this? In comparison, I find the HU915QB like 20% sharper... which is very weird to me seeing this T1 projector is supposedly the best...


----------



## j-0

kraine said:


> Bright Dolby Vision is a good beginning
> 
> View attachment 3327725


Yes Dolby Vision Bright mode "solves" the extreme "bleaching" issue that Dolby Vision Dark mode looks like in some movie scenes... but... as a result the projector has worse black levels even compared to the AWOL, which isn't particularly good in blacks... The main reason most people get this projector is the supposedly good black levels, so if you end up using Dolby Vision Bright, and you say you got it for the black levels... Well....


----------



## kraine

No, it is quite possible to maintain a good contrast level with Dolby Vision Bright. You have trouble adjusting your adaptive contrast settings (two options are available).


----------



## j-0

kraine said:


> No, it is quite possible to maintain a good contrast level with Dolby Vision Bright. You have trouble adjusting your adaptive contrast settings (two options are available).


You mean going to Picture mode, then Advanced Video, and Adaptive Luma Control or Local Contrast Control? Or are you referring to the contrast slider in the regular Picture menu?


----------



## kraine

DOLBY VISION Bright Mode +
Strong adaptive luma control +
Soft local contrast control


----------



## j-0

kraine said:


> DOLBY VISION Bright Mode +
> Strong adaptive luma control +
> Soft local contrast control


Thank you!

This does improve things. Honestly, this should either be in the manual or, just simply, the default settings...

Any other settings I should copy paste from you for optimal performance?

I already upped the sharpness levels a bit, so it can better keep up with the LG and AWOL in terms of lens focus. But any other settings that are a "non-miss"?


----------



## kraine

I adjust sharpness to + 5 a good compromise for details and precision without artefacts adding.


----------



## j-0

kraine said:


> I adjust sharpness to + 5 a good compromise for details and precision without artefacts adding.


The default is 5. So you mean you set it to 10? Right now, I did 6 or 7 because 10 was a bit too much...

But with the default 5 I thought the lens was showing its weakness and it didn't quite have that crisp cinematic screening feel.


----------



## Ricoflashback

I don't see a DV Bright or DV Dark option with my global T1 in the picture settings. Any way - - I've turned off HDR and DV and am quite happy with the great colors and black levels of SDR. My cable picture, surprisingly, is also very good.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> DOLBY VISION Bright Mode +
> Strong adaptive luma control +
> Soft local contrast control


Hey that’s interesting I have tried that and it does make it look different but does it crush the blacks a bit and make it less accurate? Just trying to understand what adaptive luma control is actually doing? Something to the gamma?


----------



## madmax777

please tell me what it is? I saw someone on the forum with a similar problem, how did they solve this problem? the projector is a week old
a spot in the middle of the screen and the left side of the screen. visible on almost all colors.
a blue spot in the center. the left side of the screen is a little blue


----------



## Fox&304

For DV settings you all should check the DV-Specific settings (screen size & gain). I've found that they were widely incorrect in order to get a correct picture, especially the gain. 
My screen is 0.6 gain, and I couldn't manage to avoid highlight burning no matter the picture settings unless I put the gain to something like 1.4/1.6 in the Theater settings.


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> This is the result of the tests with the new Formovie Theater that I receive. From the ignitions, the projector updates its firmware. I did not have these options DV Bright and Dark with my test model.
> CLR Vividstorm screen - Panasonic UHD 820 deck and Formovie Theater projector. Nothing else in the system and I didn't make any other correction except the choice of the DV Bright mode (that's how the Dolby Vision management should work, without user intervention).
> 
> Be careful though and set the HDMI EDID to 2.1 and do not leave it on auto.


That’s awesome, thanks Kraine! I’ll have to check it out again with the new FW. 



Diarf22 said:


> It really is bizarre, especially since the clipping you posted in the Hisense thread looked almost identical to what I've seen on my Formovie. Although it appears the issue is now fixed for newly shipped Theater projectors at the very least. I'm going to check on whether mine has been updated and is now tone mapping correctly. I'll report back as soon as I can. Hopefully Hisense sorts it out as well!


Maybe it’s an issue with the DV software package being supplied by Dolby Labs themselves for these UST projectors? It is a new arena for them after all. 



j-0 said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> I have this exact same issue.
> 
> Did you ever find a way to fix this? In comparison, I find the HU915QB like 20% sharper... which is very weird to me seeing this T1 projector is supposedly the best...


It is very unit specific and we found you need to let it warm up for about 15-30 minutes before doing focus adjustments. @tnaik4 also has some tips. 



madmax777 said:


> please tell me what it is? I saw someone on the forum with a similar problem, how did they solve this problem? the projector is a week old
> a spot in the middle of the screen and the left side of the screen. visible on almost all colors.
> a blue spot in the center. the left side of the screen is a little blue


That’s definitely something on the exterior of the lens. You can tell by how it flares up and out. You’d be surprised how small the speck is on the lens glass that’s causing that large of a mark. 

Get what’s called a LensPen from Best Buy or Amazon for $7-10 and use that to wipe it off.


----------



## madmax777

thanks. wiped with microfiber. the stain is gone. there is a little bit of the blue part on the left side (I looked at the first photos after the first inclusion, and it was)


----------



## JackB

kraine said:
This is the result of the tests with the new Formovie Theater that I receive. From the ignitions, the projector updates its firmware. I did not have these options DV Bright and Dark with my test model.
CLR Vividstorm screen - Panasonic UHD 820 deck and Formovie Theater projector. Nothing else in the system and I didn't make any other correction except the choice of the DV Bright mode (that's how the Dolby Vision management should work, without user intervention).

Kraine,

Are you using the Optimizer on the UB820 to tune your contrast?


----------



## kraine

Joered101 said:


> Hey that’s interesting I have tried that and it does make it look different but does it crush the blacks a bit and make it less accurate? Just trying to understand what adaptive luma control is actually doing? Something to the gamma?


No influence at all on the Gamma.


----------



## kraine

JackB said:


> Kraine,
> 
> Are you using the Optimizer on the UB820 to tune your contrast?


Nope


----------



## tulear

kraine said:


> DOLBY VISION Bright Mode +
> Strong adaptive luma control +
> Soft local contrast control


Thanks Kraine, are these settings valid for HDR too ?


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> No influence at all on the Gamma.


Do you know what it does then, the adaptive luma setting? Out of interest. Thanks!


----------



## JackB

kraine said:


> Nope


Then perhaps you should start using it. I find that on the Netflix and Prime apps it does a masterful job of adjusting my gamma on the movies I watch. They look a lot better than those same apps streamed from my Shield TV.


----------



## g3m

My Formovie Theater is supposed to arrive tomorrow, looking forward to be able to contribute soon (and maybe ask some questions ) ! I have an ATV4K (2021), HDFury Arcana and a Vividstorm UST ALR screen that I will use with the projector. I have a bit of experience tweaking my current UST (Optoma CinemaX P1), hopefully it will translate to this new projector.


----------



## Brajesh

madmax777 said:


> please tell me what it is? I saw someone on the forum with a similar problem, how did they solve this problem? the projector is a week old
> a spot in the middle of the screen and the left side of the screen. visible on almost all colors.
> a blue spot in the center. the left side of the screen is a little blue


Hope it's indeed on the outside. If it turns out to be inside, first you can try blowing air (I used one of these), which might resolve the issue. Blow in direction of air flow. If not, then the only way would be to open up the unit & blow air around the lens assembly area. Don't use canned air.


----------



## Sonny Red

I have received a mail from Formovie. They are about to ship my order !
Can’t wait. Will be paired with a Vividstorm 120 inches S PRO screen.

The sources will be : Apple TV 4K 2021, Xbox Series X, PlayStation 5, Sony UBP-X800M2 4K BD player.

i have bought an HDFury VRROOM both to enhanced the image for the projector and also as a splitter between my Formovie Theater and my Sony OLED 83A90J.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Anybody have issues with accessing the internet via WiFi with the T1? I can’t get it to scan networks or connect to a previously connected home network. My Nvidia Shield Pro connects fine.

Lastly - settings get easily blown away by the T1. I constantly have to check to make sure they are correct.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Just got my Theatre on Monday. These images are on a black wall in a light controlled room. My 120" Spectra screen was delivered today. I figured I'd share pictures. I'll post more once the screen is up.


----------



## Ricoflashback

94SupraTT said:


> Just got my Theatre on Monday. These images are on a black wall in a light controlled room. My 120" Spectra screen was delivered today. I figured I'd share pictures. I'll post more once the screen is up.


Nice! The pictures will be even better with the new screen. Make sure to turn "Color Space" - "On"


----------



## Brajesh

Sonny Red said:


> i have bought an HDFury VRROOM both to enhanced the image for the projector and also as a splitter between my Formovie Theater and my Sony OLED 83A90J.


This is one of the best uses I've found w/my VRROOM as well, using TX1 Downscale output to feed a (secondary) 1080p 3D projector. This allows me to still use my Zidoo Z9X with 4K via TX0 to my Formovie Theater. I push everything to LLDV with Zidoo; it's VS10 Dolby engine is impressive in applying DV-like quality to non-DV.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Anybody have issues with accessing the internet via WiFi with the T1? I can’t get it to scan networks or connect to a previously connected home network. My Nvidia Shield Pro connects fine.
> 
> Lastly - settings get easily blown away by the T1. I constantly have to check to make sure they are correct.


I did last night. I had no internet when I turned everything on last night and it wouldn't show any networks or anything. I had to reboot the the projector through the reboot settings item. After reboot everything worked again. Looked like some networking process died.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> I did last night. I had no internet when I turned everything on last night and it wouldn't show any networks or anything. I had to reboot the the projector through the reboot settings item. After reboot everything worked again. Looked like some networking process died.


Yes - same here. I even exchanged a message with Brian at projectorscreen.com. I had to do a complete factory reset. The only reason I wanted to make sure the network worked was for any updates. I use my Nvidia Shield Pro to stream everything and I don't bother with native apps. But after working with the menu and all the options, I've become quite familiar with them and easily buzzed my way around. I'm getting a fantastic Xfinity cable picture using my own "User" settings with Saturation and Sharpness bumped up a little bit. I mean - - really nice! 

Also - Kraine mentioned DV Bright and DV Dark as picture options. Is that general settings for the Global T1 or does that reference a Bluray player? I can't find those options anywhere on my GT1.

Lastly - - three suggestions for anyone setting up their GT1:

1. Make sure "Color Space" is set to "On."
2. Confirm "EDID" is NOT set to "Auto." You want that to be 2.1.
3. Always check your current "Picture" settings, no matter what you watch. I've had settings blown away or just plain gone when watching both streaming and cable content.


----------



## anothercanadian

g3m said:


> My Formovie Theater is supposed to arrive tomorrow, looking forward to be able to contribute soon (and maybe ask some questions ) ! I have an ATV4K (2021), HDFury Arcana and a Vividstorm UST ALR screen that I will use with the projector. I have a bit of experience tweaking my current UST (Optoma CinemaX P1), hopefully it will translate to this new projector.


 I saw a Canadian flag on your profile? Does it ship to Canada? What were taxes and duties?


----------



## ProjectionHead

94SupraTT said:


> Just got my Theatre on Monday. These images are on a black wall in a light controlled room. My 120" Spectra screen was delivered today. I figured I'd share pictures. I'll post more once the screen is up.


Lookin good; can't wait to see the updated pics after you hang the screen. Don't forget about the leave a review rebate!


----------



## mirzank

Was watching Expanse on prime video in uhd and I was checking settings and saw an option for hdr on or off. It’s weird how random settings show up on the projector  previously I had the dv dark and light, this time couldn’t find them, I guess they only show up with dv content.
Anyway I had it on hdr on and quite liked the picture, set it to off and it’s quite insane how many more stars popped up. For some reason in the hdr on setting my phone camera captured more of the bright stars than on screen. But with hdr off there were even more ! I would have expected the opposite treatment, I.e seen a lot more stars with hdr on since it’s supposed to give better darks and contrast. Posting pictures to get an idea. I think I still prefer the hdr on setting despite knowing it’s kind of taking away a lot of those details.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes - same here. I even exchanged a message with Brian at projectorscreen.com. I had to do a complete factory reset. The only reason I wanted to make sure the network worked was for any updates. I use my Nvidia Shield Pro to stream everything and I don't bother with native apps. But after working with the menu and all the options, I've become quite familiar with them and easily buzzed my way around. I'm getting a fantastic Xfinity cable picture using my own "User" settings with Saturation and Sharpness bumped up a little bit. I mean - - really nice!
> 
> Also - Kraine mentioned DV Bright and DV Dark as picture options. Is that general settings for the Global T1 or does that reference a Bluray player? I can't find those options anywhere on my GT1.


The DV Bright and DV Dark options only show in Picture settings screen when you're playing a DV video. The GT1 has to be in DV mode for it to appear. There's a couple settings like that are specific only when you're in either DV or HDR sources.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> The DV Bright and DV Dark options only show in Picture settings screen when you're playing a DV video. The GT1 has to be in DV mode for it to appear. There's a couple settings like that are specific only when you're in either DV or HDR sources.


By DV video you mean a disc, correct? Not streaming like from Netflix.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> By DV video you mean a disc, correct? Not streaming like from Netflix.


No streaming too. Anything that switches the projector into its DV mode. If you start a video and get the DV bug in the corner of the screen then you should be seeing the DV related settings in the Picture Settings screen.


----------



## JackB

Does the GT1 keep separate settings for SDR, HDR, and DV? If so, does it automatically switch to the appropriate settings when it encounters one of them sent by the stream?


----------



## DesertDog

JackB said:


> Does the GT1 keep separate settings for SDR, HDR, and DV? If so, does it automatically switch to the appropriate settings when it encounters one of them sent by the stream?


Yes, it's keeps separate SDR, HDR, and DV settings for each of the 3 inputs + the build in AndroidTV and for each of the display modes (sport, movie, standard, etc). There's like 70 different combos that you can calibrate separately.


----------



## Ricoflashback

I never noticed this before but with the reset of of my GT1, the four lights stay on after I power off the projector. I looked at the “Power” settings and tried to manage it that way. My Xfinity cable box is connected but I’m not sure if that’s causing the lights to stay on. Any fix?


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> No streaming too. Anything that switches the projector into its DV mode. If you start a video and get the DV bug in the corner of the screen then you should be seeing the DV related settings in the Picture Settings screen.


Thanks. I think I tried to access it before but didn‘t remember how. At any rate - I’ve turned off HDR and DV and am quite happy with the color pop and brightness with my tweaked “User” mode. Even cable looks great!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I never noticed this before but with the reset of of my GT1, the four lights stay on after I power off the projector. I looked at the “Power” settings and tried to manage it that way. My Xfinity cable box is connected but I’m not sure if that’s causing the lights to stay on. Any fix?


There is a button near the left foot on the front of the unit that you can toggle to turn them on/off - I believe it’s the near field voice activation toggle.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> There is a button near the left foot on the front of the unit that you can toggle to turn them on/off - I believe it’s the near field voice activation toggle.


Thanks. On my unit, when it’s to the left or “off” - the light stays on. When I pushed it to the right (microphone button) the light turned off.


----------



## Sonny Red

I juste received the tracking number for my Formovie Theater. They are starting to ship as planned their units.


----------



## RickMes

Sonny Red said:


> I juste received the tracking number for my Formovie Theater. They are starting to ship as planned their units.


Same here!!!
Very anxious am I.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RickMes said:


> Same here!!!
> Very anxious am I.


Excited would be better....

Enjoy!!!


----------



## RickMes

Ricoflashback said:


> Excited would be better....
> 
> Enjoy!!!
> 
> View attachment 3328986


Excited when I have it on my hands!


----------



## RickMes

Does anyone knows if the Theater supports 480p/576p input? I have to buy a component to HDMI converter for my vintage Arcam DVD Player (great stereo sound and region free) but I don't know if I need a converter that upscales the SD signals to 1080p or not. Any help and advice on a converter will be appreciated...


----------



## clipghost

So how is everyone liking the overall experience with the Formovie T1? I am trying to see how people like it stock. Just using the software to correct. I am trying to avoid tinkering too much with outside products like HDFury, etc...that seems too much.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> So how is everyone liking the overall experience with the Formovie T1? I am trying to see how people like it stock. Just using the software to correct. I am trying to avoid tinkering too much with outside products like HDFury, etc...that seems too much.


I absolutely love it. Incredible contrast for a projector priced at this level. Fabulous colors. The Android interface is easier to navigate. Sure, there are some hiccups but overall, I'm thrilled. Now - I might be different in that I don't like to tinker that much and I'm a "set it and forget it" guy. I do not use the internal apps. I've turned off HDR and DV via my Nvidia Shield Pro and enjoy a pristine, colorful, punchy and vibrant SDR picture with a great black floor with all my streaming sources - - which are a lot. Amazon, Netflix, HBO Max 2, Apple+, Paramount, BritBox (via Amazon Prime) and Peacock. I have some modifications to the "User" setting (Office Mode) and have left it at that. 

My Xfinity cable picture is outstanding - - a real surprise. I don't have the 4K STB (box) so the 1080p gets upscaled by the Global T1 (GT1). Honestly - - you could easily pay two or three grand more for a regular throw projector with about the same contrast level as the GT1. Great sound system, as well! It just won the "ProjectorCentral" audio award for a UST.


----------



## Brajesh

I love my Theater as well, but DV (Bright option, vs. Dark) is better than SDR IMHO. Having a HDFury & a media player like Zidoo Z9X, while not necessary, do help additionally in having greater PQ controls & pushing all video content to low-level DV (LLDV) to enjoy DV effect on everything.


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> I love my Theater as well, but DV (Bright option, vs. Dark) is better than SDR IMHO. Having a HDFury & a media player like Zidoo Z9X, while not necessary, do help additionally in having greater PQ controls & pushing all video content to low-level DV (LLDV) to enjoy DV effect on everything.


Is the learning curve easy? Is it also set it and forget it?


----------



## Brajesh

Fairly easy, but all the necessary information isn't in one place unfortunately. And it can it set it & forget it after that. I'm planning to create a website or blog to do just this.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Fairly easy, but all the necessary information isn't in one place unfortunately. And it can it set it & forget it after that. I'm planning to create a website or blog to do just this.


Or a guest post on my blog?


----------



## g3m

I received mine today. Didn't have time to invest a lot of time into tweaking, but here are my initial impressions and "tips". The only device that I use is an Apple TV (ATV) 4K (2021).

Like mentioned in multiple posts, you have to set EDID to 2.1 to be able to activate Dolby Vision in the ATV.
I could not connect to my home Wi-Fi network. However, I could connect to my iPhone Wi-Fi hotspot. I was then able to download a system update and connect to my home Wi-Fi network afterward. Download the update!
The upper right corner was more blurry than other corners when adjusting focus. However, it was almost like the other corners after the projector ran for a while. I could adjust focus successfuly and found no negative impact on the picture. The picture was sharp enough, I could see very well details (skin pores, etc.). It's about equivalent to my previous UST (Optoma P1).
I tried the different picture modes, including Dolby Vision Bright and Dark, and decided (for now) to switch to LLDV only using my HDFury Arcana. With my previous UST, this is what I was doing since I like the simplicity of configuring the picture setting once and apply it to all content by disabling "Match Dynamic Range" in the ATV.
Since the projector is only supporting 60hz (no native 24p/24hz), I also disable "Match Frame Rate" in the ATV. I don't like MEMC (motion compensation), even on low, since I don't like soap opera effect and prefer the "cinematic" feel. I also prefer letting the ATV doing the frame-rate conversion since it doesn't switch the projector mode all the time (better user experience).
One advantage of LLDV is that you can modify the "Adaptive Luma Control" value and actually have an effect (it seems to increase contrast when using "strong") compared to Dolby Vision where playing with this setting seems to have no effect on the picture.
When using LLDV, the projector will stay in the HRD10 picture mode (but with the benefits of DV). I used @Dave Harper settings here and they seem very good to my eyes (thanks Dave!). I think he used a Vividstorm screen for calibration and it's the one that I have : Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
I used the following video to adjust brightness. The default value of 50 was too low, I had to increase it a bit to avoid clipping blacks: 




For LLDV, I initially started using a DV MaxLum of 1000 nits. The picture did seem a bit bright to me and maybe a bit too "noisy" (could see more "grains" if that make sense). I lowered it to 200 nits and I was able to lower my brightness by 2 without clipping blacks. It also seem that higher nits content (above 1000) for whites were not clipping has well (could see the square flashes in this test pattern : 



). When watching content, the overall picture seems dimmer (better blacks!) and it seems to retain more details. I don't know much about this so I will probably play some more in the future to see the effects.


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Diarf22 said:


> So I picked up my Formovie Theater, and first I just want to give a huge thanks to Brian for his help and assistance! The customer service really is fantastic, and thanks for working with Affirm to get me the interest-free financing while also picking the unit up in store as I preferred.
> 
> I'll share more thoughts about how the Theater performs in my floor to ceiling black velvet space later, but for first impressions on Dolby Vision I noticed something interesting (the threads are long so apologies in advance if someone already mentioned this).
> 
> TLDR, Dolby Vision bright room is the mode you want to use in my opinion. After a lot of testing, from the infamous Aquaman Ch. 6 scene and many, many others on both disc and streaming last night, it becomes very clear that the dark room mode is clipping highlight detail. Bright room, comparatively, handles exactly as you'd expect and is a real treat.
> 
> Dave, were your issues including the low contrast observed in both Dolby Vision bright and dark modes or only the dark mode? Naturally, I expected the dark room mode to be best for my environment but bright is far superior for preserving highlights and rich colors. If your observations were based on dark mode, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts if you took a look at the bright mode with your expertise. To my eye, there's a world of difference between them.
> 
> I do have a Vertex 2 here as well so eventually I want to hook that up and do a more detailed compare to between DV bright and LLDV.


How did Brian help? affirm is a separate entity, unless they have a close relationship where the can get better results. Affirm seems only for the rich. Is @ProjectionHead this mystery Brian? Lol I'd rather not dump massive lump sum if I can avoid it.


----------



## Fox&304

Isn't the Theater Dolby TrueHD Compatible? 
It seems it's good with DTS-HDMA, but some files read through internal Plex need to be transcoded because they have TrueHD sound. 
I'm having a hard time finding info on the audio part of the device : what it can play, and what it can passthrough. Anybody got any info on this ?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Remy.Alexander said:


> How did Brian help? affirm is a separate entity, unless they have a close relationship where the can get better results. Affirm seems only for the rich. Is @ProjectionHead this mystery Brian? Lol I'd rather not dump massive lump sum if I can avoid it.


I had Affirm enable an "in store pickup" shipping method that we did not previously have so that he was able to use it and physically grab the item from us. 
We also pay Affirm a higher % to offer 0% financing to our customers.
.. and yes I am the mystery Brian


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> I had Affirm enable an "in store pickup" shipping method that we did not previously have so that he was able to use it and physically grab the item from us.
> We also pay Affirm a higher % to offer 0% financing to our customers.
> .. and yes I am the mystery Brian


Hey - I might need a new projector with our new house. Can you finance both? At 0%? Just kidding. Nice option for folks looking to get their hands on your fine products while paying over time with no interest.


----------



## BatmanNewsChris

Fox&304 said:


> Isn't the Theater Dolby TrueHD Compatible?
> It seems it's good with DTS-HDMA, but some files read through internal Plex need to be transcoded because they have TrueHD sound.
> I'm having a hard time finding info on the audio part of the device : what it can play, and what it can passthrough. Anybody got any info on this ?


Built in apps can't passthrough TrueHD. You'd need something like a NVIDIA Shield for that.


----------



## JackB

Brajesh said:


> Fairly easy, but all the necessary information isn't in one place unfortunately. And it can it set it & forget it after that. I'm planning to create a website or blog to do just this.


I opened the thread this morning to ask if there was a central thread that had the detailed settings for proper use. After folowing the thread since the beginning I've noticed that there are a multitude of settings, separate from the color adjustments, that are required to be set properly for correct viewing. They seem to be from all over the place and it would be nice to find them all contained in some type of table.


----------



## Brajesh

Discussing w/Brian next week where & how best to have the centralized info (settings, tips/tricks, links to reviews). Somewhere I can keep it updated, or possibly a wiki where we all can. Anyone know of a free, but good one? Google Docs may be a possibility as well.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> I opened the thread this morning to ask if there was a central thread that had the detailed settings for proper use. After folowing the thread since the beginning I've noticed that there are a multitude of settings, separate from the color adjustments, that are required to be set properly for correct viewing. They seem to be from all over the place and it would be nice to find them all contained in some type of table.


There were rumors of calibrated settings being posted (Dave Harper) either on this thread or somewhere in projectorscreen.com's website/blog, but nothing yet. 

Agreed - a spreadsheet would be very helpful for both standalone and HD Fury Vertex2. We had one many years ago for the Sony 900E/F LCD TV, but that was poster led and compiled.


----------



## Diarf22

Remy.Alexander said:


> How did Brian help? affirm is a separate entity, unless they have a close relationship where the can get better results. Affirm seems only for the rich. Is @ProjectionHead this mystery Brian? Lol I'd rather not dump massive lump sum if I can avoid it.


Edited since I just saw Brian already addressed the specifics before I saw your message.

Beyond the finer details of how he helped, it's also just really unusual in my experience, no matter what I'm purchasing, to receive friendly, helpful assistance both before purchasing a product and after the sale. I appreciate your post, especially since it serves as a reminder to get off my butt and leave positive reviews both re: the projector and the quality service and purchase experience I received!


----------



## ba_crane

Can anyone comment how this compares to Epson 5050?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> Can anyone comment how this compares to Epson 5050?


Brian at projectorscreen.com has both. If you can, go with a regular projector. Even though this is an older model and not a sexy laser, it's been touted as the best projector Epson has ever made - especially in its price range. All the bells and whistles including powered focus/optical zoom/lens position and many others. Picture wise? Very close, I believe. Full On/Off contrast for the GT1 is around 4,400/4000 to 1. I believe that's close to the Epson 5050. PixelPusher15 has extensive knowledge on the Epson 5050.

The Epson 5050 was very high on my list if I could have stayed with a regular projector. I've upped my budget and if i can swing, at all, a regular PJ in our new house - - it will be a JVC RS1100 or a lower priced JVC laser model due to the unsurpassed DTM capabilities and black floor.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> Brian at projectorscreen.com has both. If you can, go with a regular projector. Even though this is an older model and not a sexy laser, it's been touted as the best projector Epson has ever made - especially in its price range. All the bells and whistles including powered focus/optical zoom/lens position and many others. Picture wise? Very close, I believe. Full On/Off contrast for the GT1 is around 4,400/4000 to 1. I believe that's close to the Epson 5050. PixelPusher15 has extensive knowledge on the Epson 5050.
> 
> The Epson 5050 was very high on my list if I could have stayed with a regular projector. I've upped my budget and if i can swing, at all, a regular PJ in our new house - - it will be a JVC RS1100 or a lower priced JVC laser model due to the unsurpassed DTM capabilities and black floor.


Thank you, I actually did a typo, I currently have the 5040, which I believe is pretty much same just doesn’t have 4k 60hz.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ba_crane said:


> Thank you, I actually did a typo, I currently have the 5040, which I believe is pretty much same just doesn’t have 4k 60hz.


Here you go. Compare all three: 



Compare Projectors



I believe there are some noticeable improvements (tone mapping?) with the Epson 5050 over the 5040. Shout out to PixelPusher15 as he really knows Epson well.


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> Here you go. Compare all three:
> 
> 
> 
> Compare Projectors
> 
> 
> 
> I believe there are some noticeable improvements (tone mapping?) with the Epson 5050 over the 5040. Shout out to PixelPusher15 as he really knows Epson well.


That could very well be, following recommendations from a member on here I just avoid the while HDR on projector. He believes the 5040 shines best with 1080p Blu-ray material. I don’t feel 5050 is good enough for HDR. Not until you get to at least rs1000/1100 projectors for I feel HDR works that well. I’m in a very small room and trying to get the biggest screen possible while having a very nice image. The UST would allow a 135” image in my small theater, so if I read feedback saying it was just as good if not a good step up in image quality over my current 5040 then it would be a viable option for my situation. But given the 5040 has a pretty nice image, I can fill a 120” screen, and I wouldn’t have to spend any money, well it’s hard to beat that.


----------



## mirzank

Epson just announced the ls800 which sounds like it has an amazing short throw at just 0.18 so 80 inch screen from just 3.5 cm. i have a fixed depth built in wall shelf of 44cm so unless I can add some kind of extension to it for my formovie I’m limited in screen size. The epson would overcome that.
understand it doesn’t have dv but overall from looking at specs how do you guys think it will compare? How does 3lcd compare to alpd/laser?


----------



## Sonny Red

mirzank said:


> Epson just announced the ls800 which sounds like it has an amazing short throw at just 0.18 so 80 inch screen from just 3.5 cm. i have a fixed depth built in wall shelf of 44cm so unless I can add some kind of extension to it for my formovie I’m limited in screen size. The epson would overcome that.
> understand it doesn’t have dv but overall from looking at specs how do you guys think it will compare? How does 3lcd compare to alpd/laser?


Even better the throw ration is 0.16 - 0.40


----------



## mirzank

Sonny Red said:


> Even better the throw ration is 0.16 - 0.40


Does this mean it has some kind of zoom? I thought ust’s come with fixed throw ratio.


----------



## Pulse1

mirzank said:


> Does this mean it has some kind of zoom? I thought ust’s come with fixed throw ratio.


Yes it has a Digital Zoom function just like the EH-LS500 so you can alter the size of the image that way as well as moving the Projector in and out from the wall/screen


----------



## 3sprit

Can someone ask Formovie if they can add an option to disable the "anti-speckle" system? 🧐


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> I love my Theater as well, but DV (Bright option, vs. Dark) is better than SDR IMHO. Having a HDFury & a media player like Zidoo Z9X, while not necessary, do help additionally in having greater PQ controls & pushing all video content to low-level DV (LLDV) to enjoy DV effect on everything.


Yes the Realtek 1619 based chips with VS10, like in the Zidoos, are quite the step up in DV performance. 

I just did a long day of some back and forths between the Z9X and AppleTV while I was crashing with COVID and the difference is remarkable. 



clipghost said:


> Is the learning curve easy? Is it also set it and forget it?


Once you land on settings you like it’s set and forget. 



Brajesh said:


> Fairly easy, but all the necessary information isn't in one place unfortunately. And it can it set it & forget it after that. I'm planning to create a website or blog to do just this.


I thought I posted some settings here?



Ricoflashback said:


> There were rumors of calibrated settings being posted (Dave Harper) either on this thread or somewhere in projectorscreen.com's website/blog, but nothing yet.
> 
> Agreed - a spreadsheet would be very helpful for both standalone and HD Fury Vertex2. We had one many years ago for the Sony 900E/F LCD TV, but that was poster led and compiled.


I know I’ve been talking to Brian about us including HDFury settings for the projectors I review for them. It’s just a large undertaking to go back to all the ones I’ve done previously, but we should at least be doing them initially for the ones going forward I think. 

From what he’s said, I have quite the backlog of projectors! ‍


----------



## g3m

I did some more testing this morning with the DV MaxLum value in my HDFury Arcana with ATV4K in forced LLDV ("Match Dynamic Range" off).

According to the various testing patterns videos I found with the ATV4K YouTube app, using *300 nits DV MaxLum* will allow the ATV4K to* tone map content without clipping up to about 10 000 nits*. If using *450 nits DV MaxLum*, tone mapping of content *up to about 4000 nits without clipping* will be possible. Using higher values (I tested up to 2000 nits DV MaxLum) will increase clipping of content below 4000 nits.

Now, it seems you keep some more brightness by using a higher DV MaxLum value (here 450 would be a bit brighter than 300). Since I exclusively watch streaming contents from Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, etc. in DV and HDR10, and that I think this content has rarely peaks of more than 4000 nits - HDFury reported HDR10 metadata for Rings of Power was 1000 nits peak, The Boys was 3999 nits peak -, I think a 450 nits DV MaxLum would be the best compromise to retain the most brightness without clipping for most content.

Please let me know if you use different values and/or the results of your own tests!


----------



## madmax777

please tell me which is the best browser to install for the Internet? couldn't find chrome


----------



## DesertDog

g3m said:


> I did some more testing this morning with the DV MaxLum value in my HDFury Arcana with ATV4K in forced LLDV ("Match Dynamic Range" off).
> 
> According to the various testing patterns videos I found with the ATV4K YouTube app, using *300 nits DV MaxLum* will allow the ATV4K to* tone map content without clipping up to about 10 000 nits*. If using *450 nits DV MaxLum*, tone mapping of content *up to about 4000 nits without clipping* will be possible. Using higher values (I tested up to 2000 nits DV MaxLum) will increase clipping of content below 4000 nits.
> 
> Now, it seems you keep some more brightness by using a higher DV MaxLum value (here 450 would be a bit brighter than 300). Since I exclusively watch streaming contents from Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, etc. in DV and HDR10, and that I think this content has rarely peaks of more than 4000 nits - HDFury reported HDR10 metadata for Rings of Power was 1000 nits peak, The Boys was 3999 nits peak -, I think a 450 nits DV MaxLum would be the best compromise to retain the most brightness without clipping for most content.
> 
> Please let me know if you use different values and/or the results of your own tests!


Nice, I have playing around with these settings on my todo list for this weekend. I'll give these a try and see how it looks here. I'm not sure I'll be able to get it today so It might be a couple days before I have any feedback.


----------



## Joered101

Could anyone recommend a good calibrating software to use with the Formovie? I have tried HCFR but not into it so much. Any others that are free or cheap at least?

Using an I1 X-Rite


----------



## rjyap

Joered101 said:


> Could anyone recommend a good calibrating software to use with the Formovie? I have tried HCFR but not into it so much. Any others that are free or cheap at least?
> 
> Using an I1 X-Rite


For cheap, you can try out ColourSpace Zero or ChromaPure Standard.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> For cheap, you can try out ColourSpace Zero or ChromaPure Standard.


Wouldn‘t it be better to hire a professional calibrator? How often would you be using a tool like this? Do you constantly have to be calibrating your PJ or is it a one time, set it and forget it?

To me, unless you really want to learn calibrating and devote the time to it, you’d be better off with someone who has the knowledge and better equipment to provide your calibration. I believe UST projectors are a little different to calibrate compared to regular throw PJ’s.

Personally, I think you can get a great picture with “out of the box” settings with a little tweaking here and there. And remember - just because your projector is “accurate“ doesn’t mean you’ll like the picture.

P.S. - Elvis streaming on HBO Max has some real nice eye candy with great color pop.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> .And remember - just because your projector is “accurate“ doesn’t mean you’ll like the picture.


Some of the most dazzling pictures posted by @m0j0 with his T1 were not “accurate”, but sure looked amazing.


----------



## 3sprit

Can someone post generic settings to start with for the projector (Kraine deleted his indications...)?


----------



## JereyWolf

Ricoflashback said:


> Wouldn‘t it be better to hire a professional calibrator? How often would you be using a tool like this? Do you constantly have to be calibrating your PJ or is it a one time, set it and forget it?
> 
> To me, unless you really want to learn calibrating and devote the time to it, you’d be better off with someone who has the knowledge and better equipment to provide your calibration. I believe UST projectors are a little different to calibrate compared to regular throw PJ’s.
> 
> Personally, I think you can get a great picture with “out of the box” settings with a little tweaking here and there. And remember - just because your projector is “accurate“ doesn’t mean you’ll like the picture.
> 
> P.S. - Elvis streaming on HBO Max has some real nice eye candy with great color pop.


If it's anything like the import T1, the warm setting is very close to being "d65" calibrated anyway.
You can easily set contrast and brightness with clipping patterns by eye.


----------



## Brajesh

_Adding my review... nothing we don't already know, just my 2 cents _

*There isn't a Better Projector at this Price Point + Unmatched Service

Verdict*: 4.5/5 stars overall

*Pros*:

Almost perfectly implemented Dolby Vision (DV) Bright mode
Ample brightness for a decently well light-controlled room
Excellent contrast
Excellent (almost inky) blacks
Amazing (but accurate) colors that pop
Highly tweakable with a multitude of picture controls
Can be set-it-and-forget-it
Better menus than most projectors using Android TV
Great bang for the buck
ProjectorScreen.com's caring & dedicated service (for peace of mind)
(Optional) Adding HDFury further elevates performance
(Optional) Adding Zidoo Z9X (or similar) adds DV benefit to any video

*Cons*:

Prone to dust blobs (but addressable)
Finicky HDMI connectivity (struggles to lock onto signal)
Can lose wi-fi (but fixable)
Focus isn't as good, as adjustable as it could be
Not as sharp as single-laser projectors
DV Dark needs improvement via firmware
Initial placement is laborious (but also true of all USTs I've had)
No HDR10+ support (but still advertised on Formovie.com product page's specs section)
No 3D support (but, to be fair, was never promised)

This review is this home theater fan's own and not influenced by other posts or reviews. I've settled on Formovie Theater for most of my home theater (HT) needs, with a secondary projector, a BenQ HT2550A, to satisfy my continued 3D hunger. I have a 7.1.4 home theater Dolby ATMOS/DTS:X set-up, and a 145" Akia edge-free white 1.3 gain screen (a front PJ and ALR/CLR screens don't work). My HT room is fully light controlled. My recent experience with projectors includes USTs like Fengmi T1, Vava Chroma, Wemax A300 and Xiaomi 4K, as well as front PJs like Epson 5050UB, Optoma UHD50X, and BenQ HT3550. I've been into projectors since 2007, and been a HT hobbyist since the early 90's. This ain't a cheap hobby, even being budget conscious .

Here's my home theater set-up.

*Picture Quality*:
Let's start with why you'd want the Formovie Theater. Its Chinese counterpart, the T1, which I previously owned (then regretted selling) is one of the first projectors to have Dolby Vision and garner great word of mouth here at AVSForum, mainly given its amazing colors, contrast and blacks, all at an attractive, affordable price point. But, it needed to be imported from China with the risks that go with it. Fengmi, Wemax and Xioami have been known for 4-5 years now for having great contrast and blacks using Appotronics's ALPD 3.0 (and now 4.0) technology. Vava & others using the same tech don't have whatever additional 'secret' engineering those 3 brands (and soon Appotronics's own T1/Theater clone) do. And, Theater is basically the T1 with better picture controls and Android TV sans the cluttered, bloated FengOS with Chinese streaming content & ads galore.

I've tested Theater without & with a HDFury video processor (VRROOM in my case) in the mix. You don't need it, but it does allow you to dial in custom DV (specifically low level DV) settings that squeeze bit better highlights and details. See post #547 by HDFury guru @Dave Harper.

Additionally, Zidoo's Z9X media player allows you to push all video to LLDV so you get dynamic tone mapping and quasi-DV like picture quality with SDR & HDR10 videos. Zidoo's Dolby VS10 processing engine is really impressive. Z9X is made for local media playback, your own ripped Blu-ray and UHD discs, not streaming services. This Z9X thread on Zidoo forum is very useful.

I also use a nVidia Shield TV Pro, primarily for streaming content. Watching 'Top Gun: Maverick' (thrice already, such a cool flick), it just looks fantastic on Theater. It should look even better on disc when it's out. Rich colors and great details, especially noticeable in Tom Cruise & Jennifer Connelly's close-ups, you can make out their skin pores, wrinkles and all. I've actually been finding myself revisiting standard Blu-ray movies as well, because coupled with Shield TV's upscaling, they're often close to or indistinguishable from 4K at actual viewing distance. Formovie Theater just renders any video better. It's a tough choice whether to use Zidoo & enjoy quasi-DV applied to regular Blu-ray or opt for Shield TV with mild upscaling for slightly better details.

Of course, whether using Zidoo, Shield TV or any UHD disc player, where the Formovie Theater really shines is with native DV disc content. Watch the documentary 'Awaken' and be just blown away, 'Aquaman' impresses with IMAX scenes that pop, 'Dune' looks epic, 'Gemini Man' has hyper-realistic and detail (as its 60 frames/second), 'The Matrix Resurrections' has lots o' digitally-shot detail, 'No Time to Die' looks gorgeous, and there are many more. Check out Blu-ray.com's forum (vs. their official reviews) & this thread, and YouTube (Shane Lee's channel for one).

*Managing the Cons*:
Dust blobs, aargh! Let's just say I've been unlucky to have had to to deal with this more than others, pretty sure. Mine appears to have happened during shipment transit. You can do 4 things to address it. First, use a lens cleaning pen (search Amazon.com) to try & get rid of dust particles on the exterior of the lens. If that doesn't do it, use an air blower (but not canned air) to blow air on the vent in the direction of the airflow. You can tell which way by placing your hand on either side of the projector to check. If this also doesn't fully get rid of dreaded dust blob(s), you can either ask your dealer for a swap-out for a new unit (what I ultimately had to do) or open up the unit & attempt cleaning inside the lens assembly. I'm so glad I bought from ProjectorScreen.com because they provided excellent support & guidance. I highly recommend asking them to pre-screen your Theater unit before they ship it. Not just for potential dust blobs, but ensuring focus and geometry are both good. They are probably the best A/V vendor I've ever dealt with.

On HDMI connection issues, not much can be done about it. Both T1 & Theater suffer from finicky signal lock issues, taking 10-15 seconds to finally lock in after resolution & color space changes. This happens when switching inputs, starting a video from the user interface, and stopping a video. In my case, buying an expensive 8K fiber optical cable (40ft from HDFury to Theater) helped some, as did premium HDMI cables between my media players and HDFury. To make sure it wasn't the HDFury causing the issue, I did try connecting a media player directly to Theater, but had the same issues. If my set-up had allowed for my A/V equipment to sit near the Theater & use short HDMI cables, this maybe would've made the difference, but I shouldn't have to do so when using an 8K fiber optical cable. Didn't have this issue with my previous projectors.

Lost wi-fi problem, which others have also posted about here & in the T1 thread. My Theater unit wouldn't see my wi-fi network after a firmware update. Rebooting didn't help, and I had to factory reset to get wi-fi back.

On focus adjustment using the remote, the focus ring on T1 or Theater doesn't go quite far enough to either edge as it could or should. So, even with the left arrow maxed out, focus, especially on the top right & left corners remain kinda soft. This is more noticeable in screens larger than 100", like mine at 145". Focus does improve on its own after the unit has been powered on for about 30 minutes, but if you want perfect focus, the only way is to open the unit & manually push the focus ring (then leave it be, and not use the remote to focus). Here are instructions with photos from the T1 thread.

HDR10+ support, don't think so. Fengmi themselves have added confusion by showing it being supported in T1/Theater promo pics and their official Formovie.com product page, specifications. To make sure, I plugged in a Fire TV Stick 4K Max into HDMI1 port on Theater and fired up 'The Tomorrow War'. On-screen indication is just HDR10, but I also watched parts of the movie, as well as parts of 'Thirteen Lives', and didn't notice any dynamic color or brightness variances within or between scenes. I'm assuming it's just standard HDR.

Initial placement of this projector takes time & patience (also true of USTs in general). Centering perfectly, leveling, moving left/right, and having to do it all over again. It's all manual. I wish UST projectors had 4 adjustable feet vs. two. In my case, I needed to buy furniture shims to level the back, in addition to using the built in front adjustable feet to get it placed just right.

*Other Notable Aspects*:
Formovie Theater has rather impressive built-in audio powered by renowned Bowers & Wilkins. I use a dedicated 7.1.4 audio system, and don't use the built-in audio. But, if you don't & might be planning to buy a soundbar to pair with the Theater, you probably don't need it.

The Theater supports CEC, which is useful for powering on/off the unit as well as other CEC devices you have. In my case, I can use either the Theater's remote or Shield TV's to power on/off the projector, AVR and media player, and control volume.

If you're planning to use Formovie Theater with some ambient light, an ALR screen will help. But, you absolutely don't need one. I bought a budget Akia edge-free 145" white screen from Amazon and it pairs beautifully. Standard screens with beveled frames are problematic because the bottom edge blocks the bottom of the projected image from the screen. I had to replace my Silver Ticket screen for this reason with the edge-free (really a slim edge) Akia.

*Wrap-up*:
A few (mostly manageable) cons aside, Formovie Theater is an awesome projector for the price. It's better than all PJ's I've owned or tested to date, and that includes the highly regarded Epson 5050UB (also at this price point), various 4K front-projection DLPs, and other single & tri-laser USTs like Xiaomi, Wemax & Vava.

Not that I'm expecting it, but if Fengmi were to add HDR10+ & especially 3D support to Theater, it would make it an absolute unbeatable projector. I don't expect it'd be all that hard to implement via firmware like Vava (3D support) and AWOL (HDR10+, with DV & 3D in the works) have done. Pretty please Fengmi!

When you have family members that don't care about this HT hobby nor care critically about PQ say "wow" and are amazed by the picture Formovie Theater throws, you have a winner. We don't go to the movie theater much when the home experience can often best it. And for those of you who are picky HT enthusiasts like me, Formovie Theater is the best there is for this affordable price. It's really a great bang for the buck. You can't do a better PJ, any kind, for this price. And, seriously, don't risk it, don't consider buying from anywhere else but ProjectionScreen.com (cuz they truly provide the best support).


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> Wouldn‘t it be better to hire a professional calibrator? How often would you be using a tool like this? Do you constantly have to be calibrating your PJ or is it a one time, set it and forget it?
> 
> To me, unless you really want to learn calibrating and devote the time to it, you’d be better off with someone who has the knowledge and better equipment to provide your calibration. I believe UST projectors are a little different to calibrate compared to regular throw PJ’s.
> 
> Personally, I think you can get a great picture with “out of the box” settings with a little tweaking here and there. And remember - just because your projector is “accurate“ doesn’t mean you’ll like the picture.
> 
> P.S. - Elvis streaming on HBO Max has some real nice eye candy with great color pop.


If u have multiple display then learning the basic of calibration would be beneficial and cost effective long term. If just a one time calibration per device then off course getting a pro would be faster and easier. I don’t think there is any different on the know how to calibrate either UST or long throw projector. If u like slightly cooler color temp or more pop color, u can always dial the reference level first then tweak it to your liking. That’s what I would do as at least I know it wouldn’t be too far off.


----------



## RickMes

Brajesh said:


> *Managing the Cons*:
> Dust blobs, aargh! Let's just say I've been unlucky to have had to to deal with this more than others, pretty sure. Mine appears to have happened during shipment transit. You can do 4 things to address it. First, use a lens cleaning pen (search Amazon.com) to try & get rid of dust particles on the exterior of the lens. If that doesn't do it, use an air blower (but not canned air) to blow air on the vent in the direction of the airflow. You can tell which way by placing your hand on either side of the projector to check. If this also doesn't fully get rid of dreaded dust blob(s), you can either ask your dealer for a swap-out for a new unit (what I ultimately had to do) or open up the unit & attempt cleaning inside the lens assembly. Search for instructions with photos in the Fengmi T1 thread at AVSForum. I'm so glad I bought from ProjectorScreen.com because they provided excellent support and guidance. I highly recommend asking them to pre-screen your Theater unit before they ship it. Not just for potential dust blobs, but ensuring focus and geometry are both good. They are probably the best A/V vendor I've ever dealt with.


Great review! Getting more and more anxious to get mine delivered.

A little upset about the dust blobs thing as my house is a little dusty and in the past I had blob issues with many different regular throw projectors. The first was a Sony (back then still living with my parents) which I had to return after a few week because it was completely full of dust inside the optical system), then a Hitachi PJ-TX100, a Dell and finally a Epson TW-2800 which got colour issues on the sides because of dust (I think). Now, after almost 10 years without a projector (due to different reasons) hope everything goes flawless!


----------



## Brajesh

Buy a dust cover. Got this cheapo, but heavy duty one. Fits nicely...


----------



## RickMes

Brajesh said:


> Buy a dust cover. Got this cheapo, but heavy duty one. Fits nicely...
> View attachment 3330359


Yes, will have to do that.
I am looking at this one:








Custom padded cover for Formovie Fengmi T1 Laser TV Projector


All covers are made with a great care and precision!Features and specifications:- Heavy-duty nylon exterior protects your investment against spills and dampness;- Padded 10mm layer for impact protection;- Super-soft velvet interior;- Heavy-duty seam binding with a 30mm seat-belting line that...




bestampcovers.com


----------



## rati

Brajesh said:


> _Adding my review... nothing we don't already know, but hey, it's my 2 cents _
> 
> *There isn't a Better Projector at this Price Point + Unmatched Service
> 
> Verdict*: 4.5/5 stars overall
> 
> *Pros*:
> 
> Almost perfectly implemented Dolby Vision (DV) Bright mode
> Ample brightness for a decently well light-controlled room
> Excellent contrast
> Excellent (almost inky) blacks
> Amazing (but accurate) colors that pop
> Highly tweakable with a multitude of picture controls
> Can be set-it-and-forget-it
> Better menus than most projectors using Android TV
> Great bang for the buck
> (Optional) Adding HDFury further elevates performance
> (Optional) Adding Zidoo Z9X (or similar) adds DV benefit to any video
> 
> *Cons*:
> 
> Prone to dust blobs (but addressable)
> Finicky HDMI connectivity (struggles to lock onto signal)
> Can lose wi-fi (but fixable)
> Focus isn't as good, as adjustable as it could be
> Not as sharp as single-laser projectors
> DV Dark needs improvement via firmware
> Initial placement is laborious (but also true of all USTs I've had)
> No HDR10+ support (but still advertised on formovie.com product page specs)
> No 3D support (but, to be fair, was never promised)
> 
> This review is this home theater fan's own and not influenced by other posts or reviews. I've settled on Formovie Theater for most of my home theater (HT) needs, with a secondary projector, a BenQ HT2550A, to satisfy my continued 3D hunger. I have a 7.1.4 home theater Dolby ATMOS/DTS:X set-up, and a 145" Akia edge-free white 1.3 gain screen (a front PJ and ALR/CLR screens don't work). My HT room is fully light controlled. My recent experience with projectors includes USTs like Fengmi T1, Vava Chroma, Wemax A300 and Xiaomi 4K, as well as front PJs like Epson 5050UB, Optoma UHD50X, and BenQ HT3550. I've been into projectors since 2007, and been a HT hobbyist since the early 90's. This ain't a cheap hobby, even being budget conscious .
> 
> *Picture Quality*:
> Let's start with why you'd want the Formovie Theater. Its Chinese counterpart, the T1, which I previously owned (then regretted selling) is one of the first projectors to have Dolby Vision and garner great word of mouth at AVSForum, mainly given its amazing colors, contrast and blacks, all at an attractive, affordable price point. But, it needed to be imported from China with the risks that go with it. Fengmi, Wemax and Xioami have been known for 4-5 years now for having great contrast and blacks using Appotronics's ALPD 3.0 (and now 4.0) technology. Vava & others using the same tech don't have whatever additional 'secret' engineering those 3 brands (and soon Appotronics's own T1/Theater clone) do. And, Theater is basically the T1 with better picture controls and Android TV sans the cluttered, bloated FengOS with Chinese streaming content & ads galore.
> 
> I've tested Theater without & with a HDFury video processor (VRROOM in my case) in the mix. You don't need it, but it does allow you to dial in custom DV (specifically low level DV) settings that squeeze bit better highlights and details. See the Theater thread at AVSForum, post #547.
> 
> Additionally, Zidoo's Z9X media player allows you to push all video to LLDV so you get dynamic tone mapping and quasi-DV like picture quality with SDR & HDR10 videos. Zidoo's Dolby VS10 processing engine is really impressive. Z9X is made for local media playback, your own ripped Blu-ray and UHD discs, not streaming services.
> 
> I also use a nVidia Shield TV Pro, primarily for streaming content. Watching 'Top Gun: Maverick' (thrice already, such a cool flick), it just looks fantastic on Theater. It should look even better on disc when it's out. Rich colors and great details, especially noticeable in Tom Cruise and Jennifer Connelly's close-ups, you can make out their skin pores, wrinkles and all. I've actually been finding myself revisiting standard Blu-ray movies as well, because coupled with Shield TV's upscaling, they're often close to or indistinguishable from 4K at actual viewing distance. Formovie Theater just renders any video better. It's a tough choice whether to use Zidoo & enjoy quasi-DV applied to regular Blu-ray or opt for Shield TV with mild upscaling for slightly better details.
> 
> Of course, whether using Zidoo, Shield TV or any UHD disc player, where the Formovie Theater really shines is with native DV disc content. Watch the documentary 'Awaken' and be just blown away, 'Aquaman' impresses with IMAX scenes that pop, 'Dune' looks epic, 'Gemini Man' has hyper-realistic and detail (as its 60 frames/second), 'The Matrix Resurrections' has lots o' digitally-shot detail, 'No Time to Die' looks gorgeous, and there are many more. Check out Blu-ray.com's forum and YouTube (Shane Lee's list for example).
> 
> *Managing the Cons*:
> Dust blobs, aargh! Let's just say I've been unlucky to have had to to deal with this more than others, pretty sure. Mine appears to have happened during shipment transit. You can do 4 things to address it. First, use a lens cleaning pen (search Amazon.com) to try & get rid of dust particles on the exterior of the lens. If that doesn't do it, use an air blower (but not canned air) to blow air on the vent in the direction of the airflow. You can tell which way by placing your hand on either side of the projector to check. If this also doesn't fully get rid of dreaded dust blob(s), you can either ask your dealer for a swap-out for a new unit (what I ultimately had to do) or open up the unit & attempt cleaning inside the lens assembly. Search for instructions with photos in the Fengmi T1 thread at AVSForum. I'm so glad I bought from ProjectorScreen.com because they provided excellent support and guidance. I highly recommend asking them to pre-screen your Theater unit before they ship it. Not just for potential dust blobs, but ensuring focus and geometry are both good. They are probably the best A/V vendor I've ever dealt with.
> 
> On HDMI connection issues, not much can be done about it. Both T1 & Theater suffer from finicky signal lock issues, taking 10-15 seconds to finally lock in after resolution & color space changes. This happens when switching inputs, starting a video from the user interface, and stopping a video. In my case, buying an expensive 8K fiber optical cable (40ft from HDFury to Theater) helped some, as did premium HDMI cables between my media players and HDFury. To make sure it wasn't the HDFury causing the issue, I did try connecting a media player directly to Theater, but had the same issues. If my set-up had allowed for my A/V equipment to sit near the Theater & use short HDMI cables, this maybe would've made the difference, but I shouldn't have to do so when using an 8K fiber optical cable. Didn't have this issue with my previous projectors.
> 
> Lost wi-fi problem, which others at AVSForum have also posted about. My Theater unit wouldn't see my wi-fi network after a firmware update. Rebooting didn't help, and I had to factory reset to get wi-fi back.
> 
> On focus adjustment using the remote, the focus ring on T1 or Theater doesn't go quite far enough to either edge as it could or should. So, even with the left arrow maxed out, focus, especially on the top right & left corners remain kinda soft. This is more noticeable in screens larger than 100", like mine at 145". Focus does improve on its own after the unit has been powered on for about 30 minutes, but if you want perfect focus, the only way is to open the unit & manually push the focus ring (then leave it be, and not use the remote to focus). Search "lens focus ring is stuck" in the AVSForum Formovie T1 thread.
> 
> HDR10+ support, don't think so. Fengmi themselves have added confusion by showing it being supported in T1/Theater promo pics and their official formovie.com product page, specifications. To make sure, I plugged in a Fire TV Stick 4K Max into HDMI1 port on Theater and fired up 'The Tomorrow War'. On-screen indication is just HDR10, but I also watched parts of the movie, as well as parts of 'Thirteen Lives', and didn't notice any dynamic color or brightness variances within or between scenes. I'm assuming it's just standard HDR.
> 
> Initial placement of this projector takes time & patience (also true of USTs in general). Centering perfectly, leveling, moving left/right, and having to do it all over again. It's all manual. I wish UST projectors had 4 adjustable feet vs. two. In my case, I needed to buy furniture shims to level the back, in addition to using the built in front adjustable feet to get it placed just right.
> 
> *Other Notable Aspects*:
> Formovie Theater has rather impressive built-in audio powered by renowned Bowers & Wilkins. I use a dedicated 7.1.4 audio system, and don't use the built-in audio. But, if you don't & might be planning to buy a soundbar to pair with the Theater, you probably don't need it.
> 
> The Theater supports CEC, which is useful for powering on/off the unit as well as other CEC devices you have. In my case, I can use either the Theater's remote or Shield TV's to power on/off the projector, AVR and media player, and control volume.
> 
> If you're planning to use Formovie Theater with some ambient light, an ALR screen will help. But, you absolutely don't need one. I bought a budget Akia edge-free 145" white screen from Amazon and it pairs beautifully. Standard screens with beveled frames are problematic because the bottom edge blocks the bottom of the projected image from the screen. I had to replace my Silver Ticket screen for this reason with the edge-free (really a slim edge) Akia.
> 
> *Wrap-up*:
> A few (mostly manageable) cons aside, Formovie Theater is an awesome projector for the price. It's better than all PJ's I've owned or tested to date, and that includes the highly regarded Epson 5050UB (also at this price point), various 4K front-projection DLPs, and other single & tri-laser USTs like Xiaomi, Wemax & Vava.
> 
> Not that I'm expecting it, but if Fengmi were to add HDR10+ & especially 3D support to Theater, it would make it an absolute unbeatable projector. I don't expect it'd be all that hard to implement via firmware like Vava (3D support) and AWOL (HDR10+, with DV & 3D in the works) have done. Pretty please Fengmi!
> 
> When you have family members that don't care about this HT hobby nor care critically about PQ say "wow" and are amazed by the picture Formovie Theater throws, you have a winner. We don't go to the movie theater much when the home experience can often best it. And for those of you who are picky HT enthusiasts like me, Formovie Theater is the best there is for this affordable price. It's really a great bang for the buck. You can't do a better PJ, any kind, for this price. And, seriously, don't risk it, don't consider buying from anywhere else but ProjectionScreen.com (cuz they truly provide the best support).
> 
> View attachment 3330318
> View attachment 3330338
> View attachment 3330341
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I’m currently in the market to change my projector, and considering the Epson 5050 or the Formovie Theather. Can you tell me why you liked more the Formovie? I have a light controlled room, with dark grey walls which seems similar to your room, so will appreciate your feedback.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> _Adding my review... nothing we don't already know, but hey, it's my 2 cents _
> 
> *There isn't a Better Projector at this Price Point + Unmatched Service
> 
> Verdict*: 4.5/5 stars overall
> 
> *Pros*:
> 
> Almost perfectly implemented Dolby Vision (DV) Bright mode
> Ample brightness for a decently well light-controlled room
> Excellent contrast
> Excellent (almost inky) blacks
> Amazing (but accurate) colors that pop
> Highly tweakable with a multitude of picture controls
> Can be set-it-and-forget-it
> Better menus than most projectors using Android TV
> Great bang for the buck
> (Optional) Adding HDFury further elevates performance
> (Optional) Adding Zidoo Z9X (or similar) adds DV benefit to any video
> 
> *Cons*:
> 
> Prone to dust blobs (but addressable)
> Finicky HDMI connectivity (struggles to lock onto signal)
> Can lose wi-fi (but fixable)
> Focus isn't as good, as adjustable as it could be
> Not as sharp as single-laser projectors
> DV Dark needs improvement via firmware
> Initial placement is laborious (but also true of all USTs I've had)
> No HDR10+ support (but still advertised on formovie.com product page specs)
> No 3D support (but, to be fair, was never promised)
> 
> This review is this home theater fan's own and not influenced by other posts or reviews. I've settled on Formovie Theater for most of my home theater (HT) needs, with a secondary projector, a BenQ HT2550A, to satisfy my continued 3D hunger. I have a 7.1.4 home theater Dolby ATMOS/DTS:X set-up, and a 145" Akia edge-free white 1.3 gain screen (a front PJ and ALR/CLR screens don't work). My HT room is fully light controlled. My recent experience with projectors includes USTs like Fengmi T1, Vava Chroma, Wemax A300 and Xiaomi 4K, as well as front PJs like Epson 5050UB, Optoma UHD50X, and BenQ HT3550. I've been into projectors since 2007, and been a HT hobbyist since the early 90's. This ain't a cheap hobby, even being budget conscious .
> 
> *Picture Quality*:
> Let's start with why you'd want the Formovie Theater. Its Chinese counterpart, the T1, which I previously owned (then regretted selling) is one of the first projectors to have Dolby Vision and garner great word of mouth at AVSForum, mainly given its amazing colors, contrast and blacks, all at an attractive, affordable price point. But, it needed to be imported from China with the risks that go with it. Fengmi, Wemax and Xioami have been known for 4-5 years now for having great contrast and blacks using Appotronics's ALPD 3.0 (and now 4.0) technology. Vava & others using the same tech don't have whatever additional 'secret' engineering those 3 brands (and soon Appotronics's own T1/Theater clone) do. And, Theater is basically the T1 with better picture controls and Android TV sans the cluttered, bloated FengOS with Chinese streaming content & ads galore.
> 
> I've tested Theater without & with a HDFury video processor (VRROOM in my case) in the mix. You don't need it, but it does allow you to dial in custom DV (specifically low level DV) settings that squeeze bit better highlights and details. See the Theater thread at AVSForum, post #547.
> 
> Additionally, Zidoo's Z9X media player allows you to push all video to LLDV so you get dynamic tone mapping and quasi-DV like picture quality with SDR & HDR10 videos. Zidoo's Dolby VS10 processing engine is really impressive. Z9X is made for local media playback, your own ripped Blu-ray and UHD discs, not streaming services.
> 
> I also use a nVidia Shield TV Pro, primarily for streaming content. Watching 'Top Gun: Maverick' (thrice already, such a cool flick), it just looks fantastic on Theater. It should look even better on disc when it's out. Rich colors and great details, especially noticeable in Tom Cruise and Jennifer Connelly's close-ups, you can make out their skin pores, wrinkles and all. I've actually been finding myself revisiting standard Blu-ray movies as well, because coupled with Shield TV's upscaling, they're often close to or indistinguishable from 4K at actual viewing distance. Formovie Theater just renders any video better. It's a tough choice whether to use Zidoo & enjoy quasi-DV applied to regular Blu-ray or opt for Shield TV with mild upscaling for slightly better details.
> 
> Of course, whether using Zidoo, Shield TV or any UHD disc player, where the Formovie Theater really shines is with native DV disc content. Watch the documentary 'Awaken' and be just blown away, 'Aquaman' impresses with IMAX scenes that pop, 'Dune' looks epic, 'Gemini Man' has hyper-realistic and detail (as its 60 frames/second), 'The Matrix Resurrections' has lots o' digitally-shot detail, 'No Time to Die' looks gorgeous, and there are many more. Check out Blu-ray.com's forum and YouTube (Shane Lee's list for example).
> 
> *Managing the Cons*:
> Dust blobs, aargh! Let's just say I've been unlucky to have had to to deal with this more than others, pretty sure. Mine appears to have happened during shipment transit. You can do 4 things to address it. First, use a lens cleaning pen (search Amazon.com) to try & get rid of dust particles on the exterior of the lens. If that doesn't do it, use an air blower (but not canned air) to blow air on the vent in the direction of the airflow. You can tell which way by placing your hand on either side of the projector to check. If this also doesn't fully get rid of dreaded dust blob(s), you can either ask your dealer for a swap-out for a new unit (what I ultimately had to do) or open up the unit & attempt cleaning inside the lens assembly. Search for instructions with photos in the Fengmi T1 thread at AVSForum. I'm so glad I bought from ProjectorScreen.com because they provided excellent support and guidance. I highly recommend asking them to pre-screen your Theater unit before they ship it. Not just for potential dust blobs, but ensuring focus and geometry are both good. They are probably the best A/V vendor I've ever dealt with.
> 
> On HDMI connection issues, not much can be done about it. Both T1 & Theater suffer from finicky signal lock issues, taking 10-15 seconds to finally lock in after resolution & color space changes. This happens when switching inputs, starting a video from the user interface, and stopping a video. In my case, buying an expensive 8K fiber optical cable (40ft from HDFury to Theater) helped some, as did premium HDMI cables between my media players and HDFury. To make sure it wasn't the HDFury causing the issue, I did try connecting a media player directly to Theater, but had the same issues. If my set-up had allowed for my A/V equipment to sit near the Theater & use short HDMI cables, this maybe would've made the difference, but I shouldn't have to do so when using an 8K fiber optical cable. Didn't have this issue with my previous projectors.
> 
> Lost wi-fi problem, which others at AVSForum have also posted about. My Theater unit wouldn't see my wi-fi network after a firmware update. Rebooting didn't help, and I had to factory reset to get wi-fi back.
> 
> On focus adjustment using the remote, the focus ring on T1 or Theater doesn't go quite far enough to either edge as it could or should. So, even with the left arrow maxed out, focus, especially on the top right & left corners remain kinda soft. This is more noticeable in screens larger than 100", like mine at 145". Focus does improve on its own after the unit has been powered on for about 30 minutes, but if you want perfect focus, the only way is to open the unit & manually push the focus ring (then leave it be, and not use the remote to focus). Search "lens focus ring is stuck" in the AVSForum Formovie T1 thread.
> 
> HDR10+ support, don't think so. Fengmi themselves have added confusion by showing it being supported in T1/Theater promo pics and their official formovie.com product page, specifications. To make sure, I plugged in a Fire TV Stick 4K Max into HDMI1 port on Theater and fired up 'The Tomorrow War'. On-screen indication is just HDR10, but I also watched parts of the movie, as well as parts of 'Thirteen Lives', and didn't notice any dynamic color or brightness variances within or between scenes. I'm assuming it's just standard HDR.
> 
> Initial placement of this projector takes time & patience (also true of USTs in general). Centering perfectly, leveling, moving left/right, and having to do it all over again. It's all manual. I wish UST projectors had 4 adjustable feet vs. two. In my case, I needed to buy furniture shims to level the back, in addition to using the built in front adjustable feet to get it placed just right.
> 
> *Other Notable Aspects*:
> Formovie Theater has rather impressive built-in audio powered by renowned Bowers & Wilkins. I use a dedicated 7.1.4 audio system, and don't use the built-in audio. But, if you don't & might be planning to buy a soundbar to pair with the Theater, you probably don't need it.
> 
> The Theater supports CEC, which is useful for powering on/off the unit as well as other CEC devices you have. In my case, I can use either the Theater's remote or Shield TV's to power on/off the projector, AVR and media player, and control volume.
> 
> If you're planning to use Formovie Theater with some ambient light, an ALR screen will help. But, you absolutely don't need one. I bought a budget Akia edge-free 145" white screen from Amazon and it pairs beautifully. Standard screens with beveled frames are problematic because the bottom edge blocks the bottom of the projected image from the screen. I had to replace my Silver Ticket screen for this reason with the edge-free (really a slim edge) Akia.
> 
> *Wrap-up*:
> A few (mostly manageable) cons aside, Formovie Theater is an awesome projector for the price. It's better than all PJ's I've owned or tested to date, and that includes the highly regarded Epson 5050UB (also at this price point), various 4K front-projection DLPs, and other single & tri-laser USTs like Xiaomi, Wemax & Vava.
> 
> Not that I'm expecting it, but if Fengmi were to add HDR10+ & especially 3D support to Theater, it would make it an absolute unbeatable projector. I don't expect it'd be all that hard to implement via firmware like Vava (3D support) and AWOL (HDR10+, with DV & 3D in the works) have done. Pretty please Fengmi!
> 
> When you have family members that don't care about this HT hobby nor care critically about PQ say "wow" and are amazed by the picture Formovie Theater throws, you have a winner. We don't go to the movie theater much when the home experience can often best it. And for those of you who are picky HT enthusiasts like me, Formovie Theater is the best there is for this affordable price. It's really a great bang for the buck. You can't do a better PJ, any kind, for this price. And, seriously, don't risk it, don't consider buying from anywhere else but ProjectionScreen.com (cuz they truly provide the best support).
> 
> View attachment 3330318
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Great review!


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## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> If u have multiple display then learning the basic of calibration would be beneficial and cost effective long term. If just a one time calibration per device then off course getting a pro would be faster and easier. I don’t think there is any different on the know how to calibrate either UST or long throw projector. If u like slightly cooler color temp or more pop color, u can always dial the reference level first then tweak it to your liking. That’s what I would do as at least I know it wouldn’t be too far off.
> 
> View attachment 3330351
> 
> View attachment 3330356
> 
> View attachment 3330354
> 
> View attachment 3330353
> 
> View attachment 3330352
> 
> View attachment 3330355


The camera pic doesn’t do justice on how well this film looks. Anyone else notice the quality streaming with HBO Max? Really pristine picture quality.


----------



## 3sprit

RickMes said:


> Yes, will have to do that.
> I am looking at this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Custom padded cover for Formovie Fengmi T1 Laser TV Projector
> 
> 
> All covers are made with a great care and precision!Features and specifications:- Heavy-duty nylon exterior protects your investment against spills and dampness;- Padded 10mm layer for impact protection;- Super-soft velvet interior;- Heavy-duty seam binding with a 30mm seat-belting line that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bestampcovers.com


I am also interested in this product. I'm afraid putting it on and taking it off will move the projector.


----------



## RickMes

3sprit said:


> I am also interested in this product. I'm afraid putting it on and taking it off will move the projector.


I think it's open. Check the PS4 Pro version...


----------



## 3sprit

More than "open" it must be much larger.
The manufacturer does not know that if you move a UST projector by just one millimeter there are problems.
P.S. I think it is best to have a custom made hard dust cover like that of a turntable.


----------



## RickMes

3sprit said:


> More than "open" it must be much larger.
> The manufacturer does not know that if you move a UST projector by just one millimeter there are problems.
> P.S. I think it is best to have a custom made hard dust cover like that of a turntable.
> View attachment 3330499


Yes, from the photos, that cover does look very tight. A little expensive to risk buying it.
That solution looks better.


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> More than "open" it must be much larger.
> The manufacturer does not know that if you move a UST projector by just one millimeter there are problems.
> P.S. I think it is best to have a custom made hard dust cover like that of a turntable.
> View attachment 3330499


I think a custom made, plastic cover just on top would work as well. I’m more concerned with the lens area than anything else. Something that could be easily removed without moving the unit at all.


----------



## 3sprit

There are good craftsmen all over the world.


----------



## DARK FURY 88

For me the unit works very well except for DOLBY VISION. But I found out a strange situation .
If a see a movie through my Ipuk player, is lke oppo 203 I see regulary perfect dolby vision. No issue, I made calibration and works well. Instead when I go on the streaming service as NETFLIX or Disney + , I have issues with dolby vision. I use both apple tv and amazon firestick. Same behaviour. When i got dv the image is washed out. I realized that issues is in the rgb setting. Auto /limited/ this mode works for sdr and hdr in streaming too, for DV it doesent' work, always you give a new dv signal to the formovie you have to go manually in the rgb mode an have to move from auto to limited or viceversa. In that case you will have correct gamma and colours. 
Did nobody noticed this ? Is very evident, especially if you see movies with an external blu ray player. In that case DV image is impressive . When you see APPLE TV is dull, and I was wondering why ? then i discovered this bug.
it's clear that DV is new for everybody and we have to be patient..


----------



## Ricoflashback

DARK FURY 88 said:


> For me the unit works very well except for DOLBY VISION. But I found out a strange situation .
> If a see a movie through my Ipuk player, is lke oppo 203 I see regulary perfect dolby vision. No issue, I made calibration and works well. Instead when I go on the streaming service as NETFLIX or Disney + , I have issues with dolby vision. I use both apple tv and amazon firestick. Same behaviour. When i got dv the image is washed out. I realized that issues is in the rgb setting. Auto /limited/ this mode works for sdr and hdr in streaming too, for DV it doesent' work, always you give a new dv signal to the formovie you have to go manually in the rgb mode an have to move from auto to limited or viceversa. In that case you will have correct gamma and colours.
> Did nobody noticed this ? Is very evident, especially if you see movies with an external blu ray player. In that case DV image is impressive . When you see APPLE TV is dull, and I was wondering why ? then i discovered this bug.
> it's clear that DV is new for everybody and we have to be patient..


DV has been around a long time now. Unfortunately - - and especially for a projector, DV's implementation is an absolute joke. That's why JVC's proprietary DTM is touted as the best in the business.

Sure, you can find "hack" solutions like the HD Fury Vertex 2. And I'm glad you found a solution with your Blu-ray player. But I stream exclusively. I have an older OPPO 103 for that rare, occasional disc. I've turned off DV and HDR and get an exceptional SDR picture. I'll match it against any HD Fury Vertex2 picture. And, without the root canal and cost issues of obtaining a LLDV signal and having to use workarounds for Dolby's DV mess. Sorry - - but I'm tired of excuses for DV implementation. I have a fine Sony A9S OLED TV and honestly, I can't see that much difference between an HDR, DV or SDR picture. Maybe a couple highlights here and there. But that's it.

Give me a high quality 4K & fps streaming source and I'm a happy camper. Even my Xfinity cable picture (upscaled 720p to 1080p or 1080i to 1080p) and upscaled to 4K looks great with the GT1. Incredible colors and pop. And extremely sharp as well with a good streaming source. HBO Max's "Elvis" looked incredible with my projector.


----------



## madmax777

please tell me, I can connect some speakers to the projector (via Bluetooth or in another way) so that the speakers play together with the speakers of the projector and not in return?


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Buy a dust cover. Got this cheapo, but heavy duty one. Fits nicely...
> View attachment 3330359


Out of curiosity, you said the dust was inside the unit, you just cover it in general so you don't have to keep cleaning it for dust on the exterior correct?


----------



## Brajesh

Yes, and to minimize chances of new dust particles getting inside. Unfortunately, I don't think T1/Theater's lens housing is as well-sealed as it should be. I've never had issues with many DLP front projection & even the 3 USTs I've owned to date. Fingers crossed, but at some point, I'm just expecting a dust particle or two to get inside the lens & cause those light bluish blobs/smears, and I'll have to open up the unit to blow air and remove.


----------



## Brajesh

So, I'm starting to put together a Google Docs page with suggested settings & other guidance for Theater owners. Will open edit access to any owners here. To start, are there basic suggested settings (which preset mode, without HDFury)? Looked at @kraine's review here, but not seeing them (unless I'm missing them somewhere).


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> DV has been around a long time now. Unfortunately - - and especially for a projector, DV's implementation is an absolute joke. That's why JVC's proprietary DTM is touted as the best in the business.
> 
> Sure, you can find "hack" solutions like the HD Fury Vertex 2. And I'm glad you found a solution with your Blu-ray player. But I stream exclusively. I have an older OPPO 103 for that rare, occasional disc. I've turned off DV and HDR and get an exceptional SDR picture. I'll match it against any HD Fury Vertex2 picture. And, without the root canal and cost issues of obtaining a LLDV signal and having to use workarounds for Dolby's DV mess. Sorry - - but I'm tired of excuses for DV implementation. I have a fine Sony A9S OLED TV and honestly, I can't see that much difference between an HDR, DV or SDR picture. Maybe a couple highlights here and there. But that's it.
> 
> Give me a high quality 4K & fps streaming source and I'm a happy camper. Even my Xfinity cable picture (upscaled 720p to 1080p or 1080i to 1080p) and upscaled to 4K looks great with the GT1. Incredible colors and pop. And extremely sharp as well with a good streaming source. HBO Max's "Elvis" looked incredible with my projector.


Why are you blaming Dolby? Have you watched real DV on a good OLED?

You can easily get an image even on a projector with LLDV that far surpasses what SDR brings. From extended color gamut to easily seen HDR effects and highlights. 

Most other people see this and report this on AVS constantly. I’m sorry you had issues, but I certainly wouldn’t blame Dolby Labs for that.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Why are you blaming Dolby? Have you watched real DV on a good OLED?
> 
> You can easily get an image even on a projector with LLDV that far surpasses what SDR brings. From extended color gamut to easily seen HDR effects and highlights.
> 
> Most other people see this and report this on AVS constantly. I’m sorry you had issues, but I certainly wouldn’t blame Dolby Labs for that.


Your opinion, which got hammered by some very well known calibrators - no offense. Are you way off on not understanding the problem with Dolby Vision implementation on LCD's, OLED's and Projectors? A pure, simple fact that Dolby Vision looks way too dark and washed out on many displays and especially with projectors. Glad you like HDR and DV. To me, they are the biggest, over hyped technology since sliced bread. Wait a minute - - sliced bread is much better.


----------



## 3sprit

Brajesh said:


> So, I'm starting to put together a Google Docs page with suggested settings & other guidance for Theater owners. Will open edit access to any owners here. To start, are there basic suggested settings (which preset mode, without HDFury)? Looked at @kraine's review here, but not seeing them (unless I'm missing them somewhere).


He deleted them (now he calibrates the Theater for NBL).


----------



## Brajesh

NBL?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> NBL?


Nothingbutlabel.com down underneath...









Fengmi Formovie Wemax XY Screen Home Theater Laser Projector


We Nothingprojector is a certified global distributor for Fengmi Ultra Short Throw Home Theater Laser Projectors, XY PET CRYSTAL screen, Vividstorm floor rising screen. We also have brand like Fengmi, Formovie, Wemax, Appotronics 4k Max, 4k Pro, T1, Vogue, Dice, R1, R1 Nano, D30, A300.




nothingbutlabel.com


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> Your opinion, which got hammered by some very well known calibrators - no offense. Are you way off on not understanding the problem with Dolby Vision implementation on LCD's, OLED's and Projectors? A pure, simple fact that Dolby Vision looks way too dark and washed out on many displays and especially with projectors. Glad you like HDR and DV. To me, they are the biggest, over hyped technology since sliced bread. Wait a minute - - sliced bread is much better.


The failure of Dolby Vision is the implementation. Most users do not have the technical knowledge to add device such as HD Fury and/or tweak the display parameters. They just want out of the box experience. For AV Pro, it is easy for them to make DV looks perfect. But they are the minority here.

Formovie has to pay Dolby for the DV license on T1. It's Dolby responsibility to validate their partner devices. Clearly Formovie has no experience with DV. Otherwise, they wouldn't had released the projector with terrible lobster faces in the 1st place. 

Dolby partners have to send their devices to Dolby lab for final certification. At Dolby lab, they would run the device through a series of test images/videos to ensure proper implementation. Only then the device is allowed to advertise as Dolby Vision compatible.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jeff9n said:


> The failure of Dolby Vision is the implementation. Most users do not have the technical knowledge to add device such as HD Fury and/or tweak the display parameters. They just want out of the box experience. For AV Pro, it is easy for them to make DV looks perfect. But they are the minority here.
> 
> Formovie has to pay Dolby for the DV license on T1. It's Dolby responsibility to validate their partner devices. Clearly Formovie has no experience with DV. Otherwise, they wouldn't had released the projector with terrible lobster faces in the 1st place.
> 
> Dolby partners have to send their devices to Dolby lab for final certification. At Dolby lab, they would run the device through a series of test images/videos to ensure proper implementation. Only then the device is allowed to advertise as Dolby Vision compatible.


That isn't an answer. It's an excuse. There are multiple displays with "DV Certification" that look like crap. Sorry for expecting something to "work out of the box."


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> Yes, and to minimize chances of new dust particles getting inside. Unfortunately, I don't think T1/Theater's lens housing is as well-sealed as it should be. I've never had issues with many DLP front projection & even the 3 USTs I've owned to date. Fingers crossed, but at some point, I'm just expecting a dust particle or two to get inside the lens & cause those light bluish blobs/smears, and I'll have to open up the unit to blow air and remove.


I ordered this plain, acrylic, 12" by 20" sheet via Amazon. $19.99 cost. I figure it can slide over the top, easily or I can put a handle on it. I think just sliding it to the side and then picking it up will look fine. No one will notice it when it's on my GT1 on my cabinet. 

Probably not the best you can buy and I'm sure a special order could have rounded edges and be nicer. As long as it stays flat - - it should work. 









Amazon.com: Acrylic Plexiglass Cast Transparent Plastic Sheet 12 x 20 Inch (.118" Thick), for Signs, DIY Projects : Industrial & Scientific


Amazon.com: Acrylic Plexiglass Cast Transparent Plastic Sheet 12 x 20 Inch (.118" Thick), for Signs, DIY Projects : Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


----------



## DARK FURY 88

Ricoflashback said:


> DV has been around a long time now. Unfortunately - - and especially for a projector, DV's implementation is an absolute joke. That's why JVC's proprietary DTM is touted as the best in the business.
> 
> Sure, you can find "hack" solutions like the HD Fury Vertex 2. And I'm glad you found a solution with your Blu-ray player. But I stream exclusively. I have an older OPPO 103 for that rare, occasional disc. I've turned off DV and HDR and get an exceptional SDR picture. I'll match it against any HD Fury Vertex2 picture. And, without the root canal and cost issues of obtaining a LLDV signal and having to use workarounds for Dolby's DV mess. Sorry - - but I'm tired of excuses for DV implementation. I have a fine Sony A9S OLED TV and honestly, I can't see that much difference between an HDR, DV or SDR picture. Maybe a couple highlights here and there. But that's it.
> 
> Give me a high quality 4K & fps streaming source and I'm a happy camper. Even my Xfinity cable picture (upscaled 720p to 1080p or 1080i to 1080p) and upscaled to 4K looks great with the GT1. Incredible colors and pop. And extremely sharp as well with a good streaming source. HBO Max's "Elvis" looked incredible with my projector.





Ricoflashback said:


> DV has been around a long time now. Unfortunately - - and especially for a projector, DV's implementation is an absolute joke. That's why JVC's proprietary DTM is touted as the best in the business.
> 
> Sure, you can find "hack" solutions like the HD Fury Vertex 2. And I'm glad you found a solution with your Blu-ray player. But I stream exclusively. I have an older OPPO 103 for that rare, occasional disc. I've turned off DV and HDR and get an exceptional SDR picture. I'll match it against any HD Fury Vertex2 picture. And, without the root canal and cost issues of obtaining a LLDV signal and having to use workarounds for Dolby's DV mess. Sorry - - but I'm tired of excuses for DV implementation. I have a fine Sony A9S OLED TV and honestly, I can't see that much difference between an HDR, DV or SDR picture. Maybe a couple highlights here and there. But that's it.
> 
> Give me a high quality 4K & fps streaming source and I'm a happy camper. Even my Xfinity cable picture (upscaled 720p to 1080p or 1080i to 1080p) and upscaled to 4K looks great with the GT1. Incredible colors and pop. And extremely sharp as well with a good streaming source. HBO Max's "Elvis" looked incredible with my projector.


I never spoke about a hack..i.simply reproduce a movie in dolby vision and there Is no strange behaviuor with dv. That s it


----------



## Ricoflashback

DARK FURY 88 said:


> I never spoke about a hack..i.simply reproduce a movie in dolby vision and there Is no strange behaviuor with dv. That s it


It wasn't necessarily directed at you. All throughout this thread and even in the original Fengmi T1 forum - - the HD Fury Vertex2 is the predominant, suggested "fix" for a poor DV picture. I find that unacceptable. OK - that's my opinion and if others want to go down that LLDV path - - go for it. Spend whatever you want to fix DV with sources other than a Bluray movie. I'm happy with SDR and 4K streaming content and I'll leave it at that.


----------



## jeff9n

Ricoflashback said:


> That isn't an answer. It's an excuse. There are multiple displays with "DV Certification" that look like crap. Sorry for expecting something to "work out of the box."


DV should work out of the box. If users have to jump through technical hoops, it's a complate failure in the implementation. 

This is not an excuse. Rather, I am pointing the fault to the company Dolby for not validating their partner devices.


----------



## rati

Ricoflashback said:


> It wasn't necessarily directed at you. All throughout this thread and even in the original Fengmi T1 forum - - the HD Fury Vertex2 is the predominant, suggested "fix" for a poor DV picture. I find that unacceptable. OK - that's my opinion and if others want to go down that LLDV path - - go for it. Spend whatever you want to fix DV with sources other than a Bluray movie. I'm happy with SDR and 4K streaming content and I'll leave it at that.


I do not understand your point.
Are you saying that you have tried the HD fury vertex 2 and did not find much improvement. Or are you saying that because you find it unacceptable for companies not to have a good DV implementation, you will not use LLDV?


----------



## Ricoflashback

rati said:


> I do not understand your point.
> Are you saying that you have tried the HD fury vertex 2 and did not find much improvement. Or are you saying that because you find it unacceptable for companies not to have a good DV implementation, you will not use LLDV?


The HD Fury Vertex2 was a PIA to setup and looked quite fugly on my cabinet. I don't have a "rack" where it can be easily hidden. I don't care about LLDV. Almost all projectors with DV streaming content look like crap, sans JVC, with it's state of the art DTM where LLDV isn't needed. And as I stated earlier - - I have a very nice Sony A9S OLED TV and the DV picture isn't that noticeable to me compared to an Ultra 4K or 4K streaming source. 

The best analogy I can make is buying a brand new car, driving it off the lot and needing an immediate tune-up. The point is - - read closely - - you should be able to have an acceptable "out of the box" DV experience WITHOUT the HD Fury Vertex2 or anything else added. That is not the case with the GT1 as well as with many other displays including most projectors.


----------



## DesertDog

Brajesh said:


> So, I'm starting to put together a Google Docs page with suggested settings & other guidance for Theater owners. Will open edit access to any owners here. To start, are there basic suggested settings (which preset mode, without HDFury)? Looked at @kraine's review here, but not seeing them (unless I'm missing them somewhere).


Nice! Naturally I haven't seen it yet but what I'd like to ideally have with something like it is settings with and without an HDFurry. I keep trying out options both ways to see what I like best. The other thing that would be nice to have is a setting page for the different streaming boxes. I think AppleTV, Zidoo, and Shield have been the most mentioned ones so far. I know I've given out my ATV ones once and playing with my zidoo settings is on my todo list to see if any deviations from the "standard" settings works better for the GT1.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Your opinion, which got hammered by some very well known calibrators - no offense. Are you way off on not understanding the problem with Dolby Vision implementation on LCD's, OLED's and Projectors? A pure, simple fact that Dolby Vision looks way too dark and washed out on many displays and especially with projectors. Glad you like HDR and DV. To me, they are the biggest, over hyped technology since sliced bread. Wait a minute - - sliced bread is much better.


Wow I’d love to see these “well known calibrators” that would say DV sucks. I’ve been working with LLDV and DV for years now, I think I have a good understanding. It sounds like it is YOU who doesn’t to be honest. No offense. 

You clearly haven’t seen a properly setup DV display or even projector with it implemented. Just saying. 



Ricoflashback said:


> The HD Fury Vertex2 was a PIA to setup and looked quite fugly on my cabinet. I don't have a "rack" where it can be easily hidden. I don't care about LLDV. *Almost all projectors with DV streaming content look like crap, sans JVC, with it's state of the art DTM where LLDV isn't needed. *And as I stated earlier - - I have a very nice Sony A9S OLED TV and the DV picture isn't that noticeable to me compared to an Ultra 4K or 4K streaming source.
> 
> The best analogy I can make is buying a brand new car, driving it off the lot and needing an immediate tune-up. The point is - - read closely - - you should be able to have an acceptable "out of the box" DV experience WITHOUT the HD Fury Vertex2 or anything else added. That is not the case with the GT1 as well as with many other displays including most projectors.


So you bought and tried all those projectors to base that ridiculous claim on? I bet all the owners who simply love LLDV on their projectors would have to disagree. Sony, Epson, BenQ, JVC, etc. The list goes on and on. 

Just look in the eye Candy thread from @Archibald1 and you’ll see numerous examples of incredible images from those using LLDV on many different projectors and a lot with streaming sources. In fact I just played a bunch of iTunes DV movie scenes last night and was simply blown away and am actually contemplating dumping my whole Synology NAS movie setup!

LLDV isn’t like your car analogy at all. It would be like buying a cheap car that doesn’t include turbo or whatever and would cost thousands more to have it, but there was a way to hack the chip to do so and increase its performance by leaps and bounds, almost to the same quality as the MUCH more expensive car. 

Sounds like someone has been sucking on some sour grapes.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> The HD Fury Vertex2 was a PIA to setup and looked quite fugly on my cabinet. I don't have a "rack" where it can be easily hidden.


For anyone into 3D printing and has the fugly complaints there's a nice mount for them that can printed. It was made for the Diva but fits the vertex and maestro too. It made for a clean mount on the side of my stand. HDFury Diva Wall Mount by Cambridge

The guy who designed it is also an AVS user. When he released it he also did a modified version for me to hold a miniDSP. I have two of them also. They made for a cleaner setup and wiring for me. 








miniDSP 2x4HD Wallmount by Cambridge


Comment are Welcome...




www.thingiverse.com


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Wow I’d love to see these “well known calibrators” that would say DV sucks. I’ve been working with LLDV and DV for years now, I think I have a good understanding. It sounds like it is YOU who doesn’t to be honest. No offense.
> 
> You clearly haven’t seen a properly setup DV display or even projector with it implemented. Just saying.
> 
> 
> 
> So you bought and tried all those projectors to base that ridiculous claim on? I bet all the owners who simply love LLDV on their projectors would have to disagree. Sony, Epson, BenQ, JVC, etc. The list goes on and on.
> 
> Just look in the eye Candy thread from @Archibald1 and you’ll see numerous examples of incredible images from those using LLDV on many different projectors and a lot with streaming sources. In fact I just played a bunch of iTunes DV movie scenes last night and was simply blown away and am actually contemplating dumping my whole Synology NAS movie setup!
> 
> LLDV isn’t like your car analogy at all. It would be like buying a cheap car that doesn’t include turbo or whatever and would cost thousands more to Hager it, but there was a way to hack the chip to do so and increase its performance by leaps and bounds, almost to the same quality as the MICH more expensive car.
> 
> Sounds like someone has been sucking on some sour grapes.


They don‘t say DV sucks. They say the LLDV you harped on sucks. And then you were banned from that thread. 

Enough of the HD Fury Vertex2 and LLDV. Why can’t you take that to another forum? You know - the be all and end all LLDV solutions for XXX displays.

If you are truly trying to help people (which I’m not sure is your objective) please provide settings and suggestions for the stock Formovie Global International T1. That would be a lot more helpful, IMHO.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Just look in the eye Candy thread from @Archibald1 and you’ll see numerous examples of incredible images from those using LLDV on many different projectors and a lot with streaming sources. In fact I just played a bunch of iTunes DV movie scenes last night and was simply blown away and am actually contemplating dumping my whole Synology NAS movie setup!


I wouldn't dump my NAS for iTunes DV at this point. The picture looks good on those but I still find the audio lacking vs the lossless on disc. Like I'd be disappointed right now if the UHD for Top Gun: Maverick was coming still due to what the streaming version sounded like. Just something to ponder before you make a move like that.


----------



## RazB

Couldn't agree more about this whole HDR business (in whichever format, may it be "simple" HDR10 or 10+ or Dolby Vision). These are the messiest formats/technology this industry has ever known.
It has never been so hard to achieve a viewable good picture which can be considered a real upgrade over an older technology. Maybe your television/monitor/projector was a bit off, the gamma curve wasn't exactly right, blacks were a bit crushed or lifted, one is greener, one is more magenta. You could tweak, even calibrated to get a better picture, but not what we have today.
HDR results in such a *vastly* different picture on different displays and from different devices because HDR is such a mess. That's on top of the other characteristics, qualities or problems we had with displays up until HDR.

Never was it necessary to use a video processor or you might be better off with good old SDR. Yes, you could improve and enhance an image, but you didn't have to use anything to get a proper picture.

Never filmmakers had so little control of what the viewer is actually going to see on screen.

I don't have my Formovie Theater just yet and cannot comment yet about it's performance, but on too many occasions I could see that good SDR rec.709 mastering can look superior to HDR.

When a format is supposed to bring a higher dynamic range picture and you end up with a dull or too dark to see picture on lots of displays, then something is wrong.
Not every consumer can be expected to dive so deep into this.

Just to clarify, I am not against HDR or DV. I am not saying you cannot get superior results which cannot be achieved with SDR.
Yet you can see for yourselves that even some of the tweakers among us on these GT1 and T1 threads admitted they got tired of messing with HDR / DV and say when they use SDR it simply *works *and colours are spot on and they don't have to constantly deal with settings.


----------



## jeff9n

The past Saturday I went to AMC theater to see Top Gun. It has been at least 5 years since I last visited a movie theater. Watching the trailers and then the movie, I can say the T1 video quality in 4K SDR looks as good as what I see on the theater screen.

The only thing missing at home is the thumping couch when the jets flew by at super sonic speed. Otherwise, I don't miss the theater immersive viewing experience. You can get that at home with a 165-inch screen.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> They don‘t say DV sucks. They say the LLDV you harped on sucks. And then you were banned from that thread.
> 
> Enough of the HD Fury Vertex2 and LLDV. Why can’t you take that to another forum? You know - the be all and end all LLDV solutions for XXX displays.
> 
> If you are truly trying to help people (which I’m not sure is your objective) please provide settings and suggestions for the stock Formovie Global International T1. That would be a lot more helpful, IMHO.


Dang did I do something to you personally or something? Why all the hate?

How would they know LLDV sucks? They haven’t even done it. That wasn’t even their point Rico!

Nobody ever said it was the end all be all. Where are you getting this crap from??? All it was EVER billed to be was an affordable DTM solution compared to the Uber expensive video processors like Radiance Pro and MadVR Envy and easier and usually less expensive than a MadVR PC build, plus a way to get Dolby Vision on an otherwise Non DV but HDR10 capable display. 

If not to help others, then PLEASE do explain me taking hours upon hours every single night for days and weeks and months and years to figure things out like this LLDV trick and many of my HarperVision settings which I’ve shared with this community and the world for many years. What have YOU contributed other than sour grapes, whining, pissing and moaning that YOU can’t get good DV or HDR???

Maybe if I owned an International T1 I could help you and others more than I already have? Perhaps you’d like to do an extensive calibration and review and share what YOU did with one rather than expect others to do it for YOU????

I believe I have actually made a post with settings from the T1 and HDFURY. Maybe if you want more you can talk to my boss and force him to give me one for an extended period of time and to forgo ALL the other 15+ projectors he has lined up for me to do when I get back to the office after I recover from COVID?

Take a chill pill dude, you’re crossing the line!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Dang did I do something to you personally or something? Why all the hate?
> 
> How would they know LLDV sucks? They haven’t even done it. That wasn’t even their point Rico!
> 
> Nobody ever said it was the end all be all. Where are you getting this crap from??? All it was EVER billed to be was an affordable DTM solution compared to the Uber expensive video processors like Radiance Pro and MadVR Envy and easier and usually less expensive than a MadVR PC build, plus a way to get Dolby Vision on an otherwise Non DV but HDR10 capable display.
> 
> If not to help others, then PLEASE do explain me taking hours upon hours every single night for days and weeks and months and years to figure things out like this LLDV trick and many of my HarperVision settings which I’ve shared with this community and the world for many years. What have YOU contributed other than sour grapes, whining, pissing and moaning that YOU can’t get good DV or HDR???
> 
> Maybe if I owned an International T1 I could help you and others more than I already have? Perhaps you’d like to do an extensive calibration and review and share what YOU did with one rather than expect others to do it for YOU????
> 
> I believe I have actually made a post with settings from the T1 and HDFURY. Maybe if you want more you can talk to my boss and force him to give me one for an extended period of time and to forgo ALL the other 15+ projectors he has lined up for me to do when I get back to the office after I recover from COVID?
> 
> Take a chill pill dude, you’re crossing the line!


Do what you do, Dave.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> If not to help others, then PLEASE do explain me taking hours upon hours every single night for days and weeks and months and years to figure things out like this LLDV trick and many of my HarperVision settings which I’ve shared with this community and the world for many years.


Dave, is there a HarperVision thread that lays everything out from over the years? I'm using your settings from earlier in the thread and would love to read the genesis of it and what ever theory you've written over the years. Searching for it is giving me pretty much every projector thread that it has been mentioned in so I'm not sure if one doesn't exist or if it's just buried due to how often it's mentioned.

edit: found the thread at avforums. Is that the best source for the journey from the birth of HarperVision to now?


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Do what you do, Dave.


Boys! Boys! Take it outside please!


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Do what you do, Dave.


I do and always will, which is more than you have done here!



DesertDog said:


> Dave, is there a HarperVision thread that lays everything out from over the years? I'm using your settings from earlier in the thread and would love to read the genesis of it and what ever theory you've written over the years. Searching for it is giving me pretty much every projector thread that it has been mentioned in so I'm not sure if one doesn't exist or if it's just buried due to how often it's mentioned.
> 
> edit: found the thread at avforums. Is that the best source for the journey from the birth of HarperVision to now?


Not that I know of. It’s just a concept really. Each iteration and version is different. In the beginning it was just sending full HDR10 into a projector that otherwise didn’t support HDR10 or had a bad implementation of it. Then it morphed into a few different things like some extreme settings in the LK970 and LK990s from BenQ to massage their lasers and where they cutoff and clip. 

It was really kind of a joke name that someone gave me and it stuck so I used it a lot, but it’s more tongue in cheek for some of my crazy experiments more than anything. 



JackB said:


> Boys! Boys! Take it outside please!


I would but I’m not even sure what I did to spark such outrage out of the blue from him? 

I must’ve hurt him in some deep personal way I guess, unbeknownst to me anyway. I guess he tried my settings and advice and couldn’t do it well, so he’s blaming me personally even though multitudes of people are doing it successfully, idk?

I don’t believe I deserved the treatment he gave me. I certainly didn’t do anything to warrant such an attack here, did I? Someone please enlighten me.


----------



## noonsa

..


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Not that I know of. It’s just a concept really. Each iteration and version is different. In the beginning it was just sending full HDR10 into a projector that otherwise didn’t support HDR10 or had a bad implementation of it. Then it morphed into a few different things like some extreme settings in the LK970 and LK990s from BenQ to massage their lasers and where they cutoff and clip.
> 
> It was really kind of a joke name that someone gave me and it stuck so I used it a lot, but it’s more tongue in cheek for some of my crazy experiments more than anything.


OK, cool. Figured I'd check since I'm trying to dive deeper into how it works and some of the mechanics behind it and EDIDs. My engineer brain is going a bit and I like to learn the how and why of all the dials.


----------



## Brajesh

My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.


----------



## JackB

Dave Harper said:


> I would but I’m not even sure what I did to spark such outrage out of the blue from him?
> 
> I must’ve hurt him in some deep personal way I guess, unbeknownst to me anyway. I guess he tried my settings and advice and couldn’t do it well, so he’s blaming me personally even though multitudes of people are doing it successfully, idk?
> 
> I don’t believe I deserved the treatment he gave me. I certainly didn’t do anything to warrant such an attack here, did I? Someone please enlighten me.


I don't think you did anything. I think Rico is just a really old guy, not as old as me though, that can sometimes be cranky and let it get the best of him. When we retire and downsize things can go sideways for a while and it often results in a sour attitude.

I understand where he is coming from though. I've turned off HDR on my JVC RS540 but mostly because I don't like the filter changing that keeps happening every time the source switches between HDR and SDR. It can be too dark on some material too.


----------



## JackB

Brajesh said:


> My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.


Good start. Does Google Docs allow you to imbed Sheets for the settings? This would allow an easily formatted side-by-side columnar format for each set.

Also, do you know of a link to a table of HDR, HDR 10+, and DV capability by source? For instance, Netflix plays DV on some player devices but not others.


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> I would but I’m not even sure what I did to spark such outrage out of the blue from him?
> 
> I must’ve hurt him in some deep personal way I guess, unbeknownst to me anyway. I guess he tried my settings and advice and couldn’t do it well, so he’s blaming me personally even though multitudes of people are doing it successfully, idk?
> 
> I don’t believe I deserved the treatment he gave me. I certainly didn’t do anything to warrant such an attack here, did I? Someone please enlighten me.


I believe there are 2 groups of people here. Group A that like to tinker and squeeze every ounce of performance from any equipment they own and Group B that expect everything work out of the box. Rico must have an impression everything would look great in DV without tinkering based on result shown by some of owners. There's another thread that compare 3 projectors side by side and the screenshot in DV using T1 just look bad. Most likely due to misconfiguration and straight away write off by the owner. Some people just have certain expectation and get frustrated when they can't get the great result shown by others and feel cheated. My suggestion to Rico why not hired Dave to come over to do the calibration? If his calibration and HD Fury setup is not up to your expectation then he deserved all your Fury (no pun intended).


----------



## badboris

Ricoflashback said:


> They don‘t say DV sucks. They say the LLDV you harped on sucks. And then you were banned from that thread.
> 
> Enough of the HD Fury Vertex2 and LLDV. Why can’t you take that to another forum? You know - the be all and end all LLDV solutions for XXX displays.
> 
> If you are truly trying to help people (which I’m not sure is your objective) please provide settings and suggestions for the stock Formovie Global International T1. That would be a lot more helpful, IMHO.


What are you so angry about? Dave is a calibrator and sharing his expertise and opinions. If you don’t like it don’t subscribe to it.

Just cause my house curve isn’t as pretty as my friend’s, or my knowledge isn’t as extensive, doesn’t mean I’m going to crap on REW and miniDSP (not sure if you will, but others might get that).


----------



## Brajesh

@JackB, looks like Google Docs allows Sheets embeds. Um, don't know about a HDR formats table as it applies to Theater.


----------



## JereyWolf

rjyap said:


> I believe there is 2 groups of people here. Group A that like to tinker and squeeze every ounce of performance from any equipment they own and Group B that expect everything work out of the box. Rico must have an impression everything would look great in DV without tinkering based on result shown by some of owners. There's another thread that compare 3 projectors side by side and the screenshot in DV using T1 just look bad. Most likely due to misconfiguration and straight away write off by the owner. Some people just have certain expectation and get frustrated when they can't get the great result shown by others and feel cheated. My suggestion to Rico why not hired Dave to come over to do the calibration? If his calibration and HD Fury setup is not up to your expectation then he deserved all your Fury (no pun intended).


I wish there were more photo examples of SDR vs. DV vs. LLDV with HD Fury. There's so much talk about it, but I don't believe I ever seen good comparison photos.


----------



## rati

Ricoflashback said:


> Do what you do, Dave.





Ricoflashback said:


> The HD Fury Vertex2 was a PIA to setup and looked quite fugly on my cabinet. I don't have a "rack" where it can be easily hidden. I don't care about LLDV. Almost all projectors with DV streaming content look like crap, sans JVC, with it's state of the art DTM where LLDV isn't needed. And as I stated earlier - - I have a very nice Sony A9S OLED TV and the DV picture isn't that noticeable to me compared to an Ultra 4K or 4K streaming source.
> 
> The best analogy I can make is buying a brand new car, driving it off the lot and needing an immediate tune-up. The point is - - read closely - - you should be able to have an acceptable "out of the box" DV experience WITHOUT the HD Fury Vertex2 or anything else added. That is not the case with the GT1 as well as with many other displays including most projectors.


I only agree with you that at this time we should be able to have an acceptable DV experience, but the rest you are wrong. From what you wrote I guess you preferred not to have the vertex look ugly in your cabinet than to have a better picture quality. That is ok, is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but this does not make LLDV a bad choice for the rest of us.


----------



## DesertDog

Brajesh said:


> My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.


Nice start! Looking at it I was reminded of something I meant to mention earlier for it. At the start of the settings you should mention that the settings are PER input (androidts and the 3 hdmi) PER picture mode and PER video type (DV, HDR, SDR). We had questions come up around that a few times already in thread. It can make it look like you "lost" your setting when really you haven't configured them yet for that mode. It even got me the other night because I forgot that AndroidTV was one of the inputs and I was thinking I was on my normal input.


----------



## RazB

Brajesh said:


> My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.


Very nice! Thank you for taking the time making this centralized settings guide.
This is a great idea and definitely a good place to start for someone new to this projector or wants to get into tweaking possibilities without getting lost in this long thread 
Looking forward for updates!


----------



## g3m

Here are some pictures of "The Rings of Power" (episode 1, just shots from the first 15 minutes or so to avoid spoilers) taken with my iPhone 13 mini. Using LLDV 450 nits DV MaxLum combined with User Picture mode, Warm color Temperature, Adaptative Luma Control Strong, Local Contrast Control Middle. It's somewhat similar to what you get with Dolby Vision Bright, but with a bit more contrast and brightness I think. I also tested Dolby Vision Bright some more and it seems to clip around 1000 nits. If you want to tone map above 1000 nits, it seems you have to use LLDV.


----------



## Fox&304

I'll try to add my settings to this shared sheet, been tinkering with them a bit for a few days. For me DV is working as intended, with some settings and especially the specific DV Settings tweaked (screen size particularly, that made everything burnt/washed out). While I agree that HDR/DV is one of the worse implemented video innovation since a very long while, I don't understand putting them aside completely to be honest, because they have great benefits. I won't put a HDFury because it's too much for me, but with a few tweaks you get the intended effect, TV or projector. But as usual, to each his own.


----------



## tweaknews

Is anyone from Germany who has already ordered and received a Formovie Theater?


----------



## Sonny Red

tweaknews said:


> Is anyone from Germany who has already ordered and received a Formovie Theater?


Not Germany but not far from it 

I should receive it this week. Has been dispatch yesterday from Germany.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rati said:


> I only agree with you that at this time we should be able to have an acceptable DV experience, but the rest you are wrong. From what you wrote I guess you preferred not to have the vertex look ugly in your cabinet than to have a better picture quality. That is ok, is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but this does not make LLDV a bad choice for the rest of us.


For the umpteenth time, I've never said that LLDV is a bad choice for ANYONE. By all means - - use whatever you want to chase the Holy Grail of HDR and DV on a projector. If you like the picture with HD Fury or MadVR via HTPC - - go for it. And I dispute your "better quality picture" with DV over my SDR picture without HDR or DV. But that's o.k. - we can agree to disagree. 

But DV looks dark and washed out on my GT1 using "out of the box" settings - whether that be DV Bright or DV Dark. I suspect a lot of owners of the original T1 and now, GT1, have had the same experience. The focus of this thread has turned to the HD Fury Vertex2 as opposed to trying to squeeze out the best picture you can with native settings. If that's what folks want this thread to be - - than so be it.


----------



## JackB

Brajesh said:


> @JackB, looks like Google Docs allows Sheets embeds. Um, don't know about a HDR formats table as it applies to Theater.


I think I am right about this. Each source, Netflix, Prime, Disney+, etc. has different HDR support depending on the player, Roku, Shield TV, Firestick, Android, Apple, etc. It’s a confusing mess where DV will play on my Sony A80J with Firestick but not Roku, for instance. The table would be HDR, HDR10+, DV across, and the list of players would be in Column 1. The list would be unique to the GT1 as support is unique to hardware and firmware of the display I think. If the display has no part then perhaps the table should be in a different discussion thread or area.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> For the umpteenth time, I've never said that LLDV is a bad choice for ANYONE. By all means - - use whatever you want to chase the Holy Grail of HDR and DV on a projector. If you like the picture with HD Fury or MadVR via HTPC - - go for it. And I dispute your "better quality picture" with DV over my SDR picture without HDR or DV. But that's o.k. - we can agree to disagree.
> 
> But DV looks dark and washed out on my GT1 using "out of the box" settings - whether that be DV Bright or DV Dark. I suspect a lot of owners of the original T1 and now, GT1, have had the same experience. The focus of this thread has turned to the HD Fury Vertex2 as opposed to trying to squeeze out the best picture you can with native settings. If that's what folks want this thread to be - - than so be it.


Since there is only one set of firmware(GT1) to support here it seems really strange that the engineers would release a DV product that isn’t dialed in perfectly. Then wouldn’t it be down to the source player meeting the DV specs correctly? If so, why aren’t the DV specs rigid enough so that we can have one happy result? Is it all tied to the nits level?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Since there is only one set of firmware(GT1) to support here it seems really strange that the engineers would release a DV product that isn’t dialed in perfectly. Then wouldn’t it be down to the source player meeting the DV specs correctly? If so, why aren’t the DV specs rigid enough so that we can have one happy result? Is it all tied to the nits level?


It's a little more complicated than that. For a projector, the specs are impossible to attain. And even with other displays like LCD & OLED TV's - - the "standards" are all over the board in terms of implementation. The net-net is that with HDR and DV - - it all boils down to "tone mapping." For me, if I can swing it, my next projector will be a JVC as it's the best "set it and forget it," "out of the box" implementation of HDR/DV for a projector with unbeatable contrast levels. Something I could have really used last night when streaming "See" from AppleTV. 

HDR/DV - here's an interesting thread as it pertains to HDR and projectors:









HDR Musings


I confess I have been ignorant of many things going on in the video world over the last probably more than ten years. I was very active on AVS a long time ago. I'm just jumping into it again now I am playing a bit of catch up. One thing I confess I didn't really understand is HDR. My TVs...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## patels922

Brajesh said:


> My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.



Great start! TY for taking the initiative

Some setting and observations:

Color space = On = washed out colors
EDID set to 2.1 (via Device Preferences - Inputs - HDMI EDID Version) will get you 4k60 on Nvidia Shield
MEMC = Soap Opera effect = Disable / off


----------



## JackB

patels922 said:


> Great start! TY for taking the initiative
> 
> Some setting and observations:
> 
> Color space = On = washed out colors
> EDID set to 2.1 (via Device Preferences - Inputs - HDMI EDID Version) will get you 4k60 on Nvidia Shield
> MEMC = Soap Opera effect = Disable / off


Could "Color space = On = washed out colors" be the reason Rico was seeing washed out color playing DV video? If so, how about the "too dark" issue? Could that be fixed with a setting change?

Rico, could you give it a shot and report back?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Could "Color space = On = washed out colors" be the reason Rico was seeing washed out color playing DV video? If so, how about the "too dark" issue? Could that be fixed with a setting change?
> 
> Rico, could you give it a shot and report back?


I can certainly try. I read that "Color Space" should be "On" instead of "Auto." Maybe that was with an HD Fury setting. It would be interesting to see if anyone can rustle up Kraine's GT1 settings and post them. Not that it will guarantee anything (someone else's settings) - but it's worth looking at.


----------



## kraine

I will update them (Formovie theater) here by the end of next week with the new firmware.


----------



## JereyWolf

JackB said:


> Is it all tied to the nits level?


This may be a really good question. 
Is each user's DV / HDR experience correlated to their max nits on their screen?
I wonder how many people with 1.0 gain screens feel that DV is too dark? I certainly looks way too dark on my 120" 0.4 gain screen....but I've only got about 50 nits max. 

Is there anyone reading this with a higher gain screen who still feels HDR and DV are a bit too dark?


----------



## Brajesh

kraine said:


> I will update them (Formovie theater) here by the end of next week with the new firmware.


New? Do tell if you know what it adds/addresses & if it’s a general rollout. Thanks.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Check out the latest AVSForum Tech Talk podcast, it was about the LaserTV Showdown and I was a guest with Rob Sabin & Chris Majestic.








Tech Talk with Scott Wilkinson Episode 10: 2022 UST...


The AVSForum Tech Talk podcast, hosted by resident home theater nerd Scott Wilkinson, is back for another installment. In the video this week, we'll discuss the 2022 UST Projector Shootout. For episode 10, Scott is hosting Rob Sabin, Brian Gluck and Chris Majestic. It all kicks off Tuesday...




www.avsforum.com




I made sure to give the "T1 Brigade" props and a shoutout


----------



## rjyap

JackB said:


> Could "Color space = On = washed out colors" be the reason Rico was seeing washed out color playing DV video? If so, how about the "too dark" issue? Could that be fixed with a setting change?
> 
> Rico, could you give it a shot and report back?


Too dark in DV issue could be due to wrong RGB output level or screen size in Dolby settings. Someone already reported DV remap to RGB limited instead of RGB Full Range. Said if you have screen gain 0.5 at 120", then you should enter a screen area size that's double to equal to 1.0 gain screen size. Try play around with screen size to get the brightness curve you are happy with.


----------



## JackB

rjyap said:


> Too dark in DV issue could be due to wrong RGB output level or screen size in Dolby settings. Someone already reported DV remap to RGB limited instead of RGB Full Range. Said if you have screen gain 0.5 at 120", then you should enter a screen area size that's double to equal to 1.0 gain screen size. Try play around with screen size to get the brightness curve you are happy with.


There you go Rico. Try that.


----------



## clipghost

Anyone in the Southern California area have a Formovie Theater to check out? Or know where I could see one? Would love to see one in person before pulling the trigger. Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

Done w/Google docs settings guide for Theater owners here. Did I get anything wrong or miss something? Please help edit & contribute by requesting access once you're in the guide & providing your AVSForum name. Let's make this a one-stop Formovie Theater settings bible with all possible settings, tips/tweaks, etc. Thanks.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> There you go Rico. Try that.


Tried it out. Still too dark. Changed “Color” to “Auto,” though, and better colors. Go figure. Superb SDR picture with Xfinity cable and lights out with Ultra HD content from Netflix. Sharp as a tack. Even BritBox via Amazon Prime looks stellar. “User” modified setting with HDR disabled via my Nvidia Shield Pro for streaming.

I get a shadow and a frame of light above the shadow with this UST projector. A velvet wall or velvet frame around the thin bezel would probably solve that. A darker wall would help. Even JVC projectors have some light bleed. But a different beast with the angle of a UST projector. I’m trying to remember to dust and clean the lens before I watch anything. I ordered an acrylic sheet to cover the PJ and keep dust from accumulating on the top and down to the lens without moving the projector.


----------



## kraine

Brajesh said:


> New? Do tell if you know what it adds/addresses & if it’s a general rollout. Thanks.


It’s written « bugs correction » 😂 But I found that its impact on colorimetry was important compared to the first version that served as the basis for my test.


----------



## extension23

Brajesh said:


> Done w/Google docs settings guide for Theater owners here. Did I get anything wrong or miss something? Please help edit & contribute by requesting access once you're in the guide & providing your AVSForum name. Let's make this a one-stop Formovie Theater settings bible with all possible settings, tips/tweaks, etc. Thanks.


Are there any specific recommendations that should be added for users that are using the nvidia shield TV?


----------



## JimBob1971

Hi,

Just received my Theater here In the UK. A few observations and a question:

Color Space to “on” washes out colours for me
Dolby vision bright/dark on Netflix from 4K Firestick has terribly dim images.
Can’t seem to get 4K from Firestick - always appears as 1080P- will try EDID change tonight.
Connecting Firestick and choosing input causes a dialog to appear asking to use ‘live tv’ or ‘live channels’ app. Never seen this before on other USTs.
Amazing picture, best on a UST I’ve seen. Blacks are fantastic. Picture not as sharp as some other USTs I’ve seen but really cinematic and enjoyable.

The only real issue I’ve had so far is that I noticed a Color temperature issue/ dirty screen effect From left to right when watching the Gene episodes of Better Call Saul. At first I thought it might be my screen, but the same occurred when projected onto wall. Additionally I have a weird rainbow in the centre, bottom half of the screen that I only noticed when I moved the PJ to test on the wall (haven’t seen it on normal content - it looks like a rainbow reflection from the lens/something inside the optical system).

Anyone able to comment on the images below and tell me if these are usual for this PJ? (I bought direct from Formovie so can’t contact a dealer). The camera isn’t picking things up as clearly as the naked eye strangely but there is an obvious change in colour from left to right. Perhaps this is simply caused by the lens used and is present on all Theaters. Perhaps I should contact ProjectorScreens directly as they will have seen a bunch of these machines.


----------



## RickMes

JimBob1971 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just received my Theater here In the UK. A few observations and a question:
> 
> Color Space to “on” washes out colours for me
> Dolby vision bright/dark on Netflix from 4K Firestick has terribly dim images.
> Can’t seem to get 4K from Firestick - always appears as 1080P- will try EDID change tonight.
> Connecting Firestick and choosing input causes a dialog to appear asking to use ‘live tv’ or ‘live channels’ app. Never seen this before on other USTs.
> Amazing picture, best on a UST I’ve seen. Blacks are fantastic. Picture not as sharp as some other USTs I’ve seen but really cinematic and enjoyable.
> 
> The only real issue I’ve had so far is that I noticed a Color temperature issue/ dirty screen effect From left to right when watching the Gene episodes of Better Call Saul. At first I thought it might be my screen, but the same occurred when projected onto wall. Additionally I have a weird rainbow in the centre, bottom half of the screen that I only noticed when I moved the PJ to test on the wall (haven’t seen it on normal content).
> 
> Anyone able to comment on the images below and tell me if these are usual for this PJ? (I bought direct from Formovie so can’t contact a dealer). The camera isn’t picking things up as clearly as the naked eye strangely but there is an obvious change in colour from left to right. Perhaps this is simply caused by the lens used and is present on all Theaters.
> 
> View attachment 3331309
> 
> View attachment 3331308


Oh man! I am yet to received my Theater (should be delivered this week, also bought from Formovie) but now I am very scared. Literally all 4 LCD regular throw projectors that I owned in the past (Sony, Hitachi, Dell and Epson) developed that kind of color issue (magenta on one side and green on the other). I think it is dust/dirty related. Awful with black and white content.
_Sigh_

Anyone care to comment or give some advice on this?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JimBob1971 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just received my Theater here In the UK. A few observations and a question:
> 
> Color Space to “on” washes out colours for me
> Dolby vision bright/dark on Netflix from 4K Firestick has terribly dim images.
> Can’t seem to get 4K from Firestick - always appears as 1080P- will try EDID change tonight.
> Connecting Firestick and choosing input causes a dialog to appear asking to use ‘live tv’ or ‘live channels’ app. Never seen this before on other USTs.
> Amazing picture, best on a UST I’ve seen. Blacks are fantastic. Picture not as sharp as some other USTs I’ve seen but really cinematic and enjoyable.
> 
> The only real issue I’ve had so far is that I noticed a Color temperature issue/ dirty screen effect From left to right when watching the Gene episodes of Better Call Saul. At first I thought it might be my screen, but the same occurred when projected onto wall. Additionally I have a weird rainbow in the centre, bottom half of the screen that I only noticed when I moved the PJ to test on the wall (haven’t seen it on normal content - it looks like a rainbow reflection from the lens/something inside the optical system).
> 
> Anyone able to comment on the images below and tell me if these are usual for this PJ? (I bought direct from Formovie so can’t contact a dealer). The camera isn’t picking things up as clearly as the naked eye strangely but there is an obvious change in colour from left to right. Perhaps this is simply caused by the lens used and is present on all Theaters.
> 
> View attachment 3331309
> 
> View attachment 3331308


Right on about “Color” “On” washing out the picture. I switched mine back to “Auto.” I’d be more concerned about content and any DSE issues you experience. In other words, is it present on all content or just an occasional program or movie? Make sure to clean the lens before you watch. The plastic lens cover (or at least I think it’s plastic as opposed to glass) is a dust magnet. We have cats and any minute hair particles or even dust finds its way on the lens opening easily. More than my previous regular projector.

I can’t comment on the firestick but I highly recommend a better streamer with a higher powered processor. I have the Nvidia Shield Pro which enables me to turn off HDR and DV, rendering an excellent SDR picture - especially with Ultra 4K content from sources like Netflix. Lots of color punch with an exceptional black floor and contrast for a projector in this price range. There are other suggested fixes for DV all throughout this thread that require separate hardware like the HD Fury Vertex2. I haven’t seen any native DV solutions to fix the dark and dim picture. Unless Formovie can fix their DV implementation, I doubt anything will change.


----------



## g3m

Brajesh said:


> Done w/Google docs settings guide for Theater owners here. Did I get anything wrong or miss something? Please help edit & contribute by requesting access once you're in the guide & providing your AVSForum name. Let's make this a one-stop Formovie Theater settings bible with all possible settings, tips/tweaks, etc. Thanks.


Thank you for putting this together! A couple comments :

In "Recommended Custom Settings for Theater using HDFury", for the "Color Tuner" menu, I believe you are missing the values for the "Offset" sub-menu. If it's the same settings posted by Dave earlier, I attached the screenshot below.
Concerning these recommended settings, I find there is a bit of a red push on my unit. The video I like to use to verify red push is this one in HDR. On my calibrated PC monitor and my iPhone 13 mini OLED screen, the lights and reflections in the streets are bright yellow/orange. Using the recommended settings, they will appear more orange/red. 




I found that using the "Warm" Color Temperature preset (by customizing the User Picture Mode) will result in a more natural image to my eyes. The lights will have the expected yellow/orange colors that I can see on my other screens. This is the color temperature preset used by default in the "movie" mode as well as "Dolby Vision Bright" mode. As stated in Dave's review of the projector concerning movie mode : "This is the most accurate mode out of the box with colors and grayscale before any calibration. The Movie Mode is usually supposed to be close to the UHD Alliance standards to preserve the creative intent of the content creator. ". I however combine the "Warm" color preset with "Adaptative Luma Control" Strong and "Local Contrast Control" Middle to increase contrast and have a more dynamic image.


----------



## Fox&304

Ricoflashback said:


> Right on about “Color” “On” washing out the picture. I switched mine back to “Auto.” I’d be more concerned about content and any DSE issues you experience. In other words, is it present on all content or just an occasional program or movie? Make sure to clean the lens before you watch. The plastic lens cover (or at least I think it’s plastic as opposed to glass) is a dust magnet. We have cats and any minute hair particles or even dust finds its way on the lens opening easily. More than my previous regular projector.
> 
> I can’t comment on the firestick but I highly recommend a better streamer with a higher powered processor. I have the Nvidia Shield Pro which enables me to turn off HDR and DV, rendering an excellent SDR picture - especially with Ultra 4K content from sources like Netflix. Lots of color punch with an exceptional black floor and contrast for a projector in this price range. There are other suggested fixes for DV all throughout this thread that require separate hardware like the HD Fury Vertex2. I haven’t seen any native DV solutions to fix the dark and dim picture. Unless Formovie can fix their DV implementation, I doubt anything will change.


What are your values on the DV Screen Size / Screen Gain settings ?
I had the issue of too bright image and washed out blacks when putting the "correct setting" for my screen (100" and 0.6). Went to 100" and 1.2 gain and the image was muuuuch better after tweaking it again.


----------



## DARK FURY 88

Regarding white image, is absolute normal. There are never total white images on test pattern. It is a uniformity issue. 
I saw we are complaining about issues, but honestly , if we read other threads of Jvc projector you will see that they have much more bad issues. 
I continued to made comparisons. I tried movies in dolby vision from a standard blu ray player, no hack and the image was correct. Then I used both Amazon firestick and Apple tv and I have issues with dolby vision . But what happens. When machine get dolby vision signal the image appear dull and washed out, then is sufficient that i move a slider in the pciture image and image get correct again with right saturation and gamma. This MUST be clearly a software issue that Fromovie can not rcognize immediately the dv flag. It's connected with the streaming service as with 4 k dv disc all works flawless. Cinema e Sound, italian distributor is working active with Formovie , they have send a lot of videos and they got feedback they will be soon a new firmware update. So let's wait.
For my experience, Formovie is the best projector in tone mapping. Try to see the MAG CHAPTER 9 , is a killer movie for all projectors . Sky are washed out , white all burned, I have another setup with the ENVY and I wait for the new sony 7000, so I know what I tal about, the Formovie is used from me in a small room as replacement for tv, that i don't like at all. Anyway is amazing the job this UST does. The distributor made a control on the unit and made then calibration at my home, I live near him. I bought bundle screen from WUPRO + Formovie, and image is extreme good. 
There are small bugs, all focused on DOLBY VISION (Formovie is working on it), HDR is perfect, as SDR.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Tried it out. Still too dark. Changed “Color” to “Auto,” though, and better colors. ……..





JimBob1971 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just received my Theater here In the UK. A few observations and a question:
> 
> *Color Space to “on” washes out colours for me*
> Dolby vision bright/dark on Netflix from 4K Firestick has terribly dim images.
> Can’t seem to get 4K from Firestick - always appears as 1080P- will try EDID change tonight.
> Connecting Firestick and choosing input causes a dialog to appear asking to use ‘live tv’ or ‘live channels’ app. Never seen this before on other USTs.
> Amazing picture, best on a UST I’ve seen. Blacks are fantastic. Picture not as sharp as some other USTs I’ve seen but really cinematic and enjoyable…………





Ricoflashback said:


> Right on about “Color” “On” washing out the picture. I switched mine back to “Auto.” ……….


I believe what you’re seeing is the color gamut going from being way too over saturated when in the Auto mode because it stretches the BT709 SDR colors way out to the BT2020 edges of the gamut. This is similar in appearance to cranking up the color or saturation controls. 

The reason I said to turn it ON is because that is the only way to get the colors to track to proper BT709 color gamut points, where they should be. 

You think it looks “washed out” because it is way less saturated when ON, but it is correct. Sony is doing this now on their new XW line of projectors and calling it something like “Dynamic Color Enhancer”, but all it’s doing is stretching the outer gamut points further away from their intended targets. 

If you take time to watch it for awhile on regular SDR content I believe you’ll start to notice it looking more natural, especially if you have a way of calibrating those color sweeps to their proper targets using the CMS. 

I’ll try to dig up some of the pre and post calibration charts on the ForMovie to illustrate this. 



JimBob1971 said:


> ………..The only real issue I’ve had so far is that I noticed a Color temperature issue/ dirty screen effect From left to right when watching the Gene episodes of Better Call Saul. At first I thought it might be my screen, but the same occurred when projected onto wall. Additionally I have a weird rainbow in the centre, bottom half of the screen that I only noticed when I moved the PJ to test on the wall (haven’t seen it on normal content - it looks like a rainbow reflection from the lens/something inside the optical system).
> 
> Anyone able to comment on the images below and tell me if these are usual for this PJ? (I bought direct from Formovie so can’t contact a dealer). *The camera isn’t picking things up as clearly as the naked eye strangely but there is an obvious change in colour from left to right. *Perhaps this is simply caused by the lens used and is present on all Theaters. Perhaps I should contact ProjectorScreens directly as they will have seen a bunch of these machines.
> 
> View attachment 3331309
> 
> View attachment 3331308


This is normal for all 3 panel projectors to some extent. It is called color shift and is most seen on all white backgrounds. It is due to the three different colors being used to make up the image, red, green and blue. They hit the DMD chip at different angles inside the projector and are reflected more prominently to one side or the other on screen. 

Epson 3LCD projectors have this and even have a control setting to help alleviate it on screen.


----------



## Dave Harper

DARK FURY 88 said:


> Regarding white image, is absolute normal. There are never total white images on test pattern. It is a uniformity issue.
> I saw we are complaining about issues, but honestly , if we read other threads of Jvc projector you will see that they have much more bad issues.
> I continued to made comparisons. I tried movies in dolby vision from a standard blu ray player, no hack and the image was correct. Then I used both Amazon firestick and Apple tv and I have issues with dolby vision . But what happens. When machine get dolby vision signal the image appear dull and washed out, then is sufficient that i move a slider in the pciture image and image get correct again with right saturation and gamma. This MUST be clearly a software issue that Fromovie can not rcognize immediately the dv flag. It's connected with the streaming service as with 4 k dv disc all works flawless. Cinema e Sound, italian distributor is working active with Formovie , they have send a lot of videos and they got feedback they will be soon a new firmware update. So let's wait.
> For my experience, Formovie is the best projector in tone mapping. Try to see the MAG CHAPTER 9 , is a killer movie for all projectors . Sky are washed out , white all burned, I have another setup with the ENVY and I wait for the new sony 7000, so I know what I tal about, the Formovie is used from me in a small room as replacement for tv, that i don't like at all. Anyway is amazing the job this UST does. The distributor made a control on the unit and made then calibration at my home, I live near him. I bought bundle screen from WUPRO + Formovie, and image is extreme good.
> There are small bugs, all focused on DOLBY VISION (Formovie is working on it), HDR is perfect, as SDR.


Sorry I am a little confused. Are you saying the ForMovie renders The Meg chapter 9 (and others) properly and does good tone mapping so the sky is NOT blown out, or are you saying it IS blown out?

I’ve been back and forth on whether the ForMovie has some form of dynamic tone mapping like your Envy and I haven’t had the chance to bring one home for more extensive testing yet.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DARK FURY 88 said:


> There are small bugs, all focused on DOLBY VISION (Formovie is working on it), HDR is perfect, as SDR.


I only find SDR perfect. Not HDR or DV. But as I've said before - - this is a fantastic UST projector that can't be beat, bang for buck, black levels and color pop. I know of nothing on the market today that comes close to it.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Fox&304 said:


> What are your values on the DV Screen Size / Screen Gain settings ?
> I had the issue of too bright image and washed out blacks when putting the "correct setting" for my screen (100" and 0.6). Went to 100" and 1.2 gain and the image was muuuuch better after tweaking it again.


I had the same settings as you but have never had the problem of a too bright image with DV. You bring up a good point, though. What does the Screen Size / Screen Gain settings really do? What does it adjust that you can't do within the menus? I'm not sure why it's there to begin with but since I have HDR/DV disengaged for streaming via my Nvidia Shield Pro - - I don't think it has any affect on my SDR picture.


----------



## DARK FURY 88

Dave Harper said:


> Sorry I am a little confused. Are you saying the ForMovie renders The Meg chapter 9 (and others) properly and does good tone mapping so the sky is NOT blown out, or are you saying it IS blown out?
> 
> I’ve been back and forth on whether the ForMovie has some form of dynamic tone mapping like your Envy and I haven’t had the chance to bring one home for more extensive testing yet.


Is not blown out. Is the only projector , a part Jvc that works correct the meg


----------



## ProjectionHead

150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> I only find SDR perfect. Not HDR or DV. But as I've said before - - this is a fantastic UST projector that can't be beat, bang for buck, black levels *and color pop*. I know of nothing on the market today that comes close to it.


Exactly. Due to over saturated colors. As you said with LLDV, I’m not saying you’re wrong for liking it like that, but it is apparently rendering incorrectly. 



Ricoflashback said:


> I had the same settings as you but have never had the problem of a too bright image with DV. You bring up a good point, though. What does the Screen Size / Screen Gain settings really do? *What does it adjust that you can't do within the menus? I'm not sure why it's there to begin with* but since I have HDR/DV disengaged for streaming via my Nvidia Shield Pro - - *I don't think it has any affect on my SDR picture*.


DV and dynamic tone mapping rely on these variables like screen size and gain along with the display’s brightness to do the tone mapping effectively. That’s why on DTM devices like the Lumagen, MadVR, HDFury and the JVCs you have to put in those parameters for it to work right. 

No it has no effect on SDR or HDR10. Only DV. 



DARK FURY 88 said:


> Is not blown out. Is the only projector , a part Jvc that works correct the meg


Wow thanks for confirming what I’ve suspected for awhile now! Apparently the ForMovie does have dynamic tone mapping as I reported some time back, but then thought I made a mistake.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater
> View attachment 3331400


You’re sexier there than you were in the AVS video! Haha!

I bet your face is used to being in that position! ;-)


----------



## JereyWolf

Ricoflashback said:


> I had the same settings as you but have never had the problem of a too bright image with DV. You bring up a good point, though. What does the Screen Size / Screen Gain settings really do? What does it adjust that you can't do within the menus? I'm not sure why it's there to begin with but since I have HDR/DV disengaged for streaming via my Nvidia Shield Pro - - I don't think it has any affect on my SDR picture.


Rico, I think these are the settings you should be adjusting to change the tone mapping range for HDR/DV. I believe that the import T1 tone mapping curve is based on 500 nits (this is stated in one of the menus) and is wayyy off for someone like me with only 50 nits, but the variable screen size and gain setting may help to dial that in much better. 
I only have the import T1, so I can't test this myself...but if you get a chance, please enable HDR/DV and experiment with the screen gain and size setting to see if you can get an HDR image that is as "bright" overall as the SDR equivalent.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Exactly. Due to over saturated colors. As you said with LLDV, I’m not saying you’re wrong for liking it like that, but it is apparently rendering incorrectly.


Maybe I used the wrong word. By color pop I mean very vivid (not necessarily oversaturated) hues and colors that I've never seen on any other projector I've had. Granted, I have not had a JVC PJ or any other high end PJ costing over $5K - but the colors on fabrics, older cars (just like I remembered them) and landscape, night scenes - - all of these on the GT1 are real eye candy, IMHO. And of course - - the black floor for a UST projector at this price.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯
> View attachment 3331400
> 
> View attachment 3331402


OK - how is the picture with that large of a screen? Still good? 

Lastly - I don't see it on your website, yet. What's the cost, out of the showroom, into my home theater or living room?

Oh - and you've probably listed this before but the distance from the back of the projector to the wall for this size of image? Thanks.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JereyWolf said:


> Rico, I think these are the settings you should be adjusting to change the tone mapping range for HDR/DV. I believe that the import T1 tone mapping curve is based on 500 nits (this is stated in one of the menus) and is wayyy off for someone like me with only 50 nits, but the variable screen size and gain setting may help to dial that in much better.
> I only have the import T1, so I can't test this myself...but if you get a chance, please enable HDR/DV and experiment with the screen gain and size setting to see if you can get an HDR image that is as "bright" overall as the SDR equivalent.


How about I set the screen size to 200" and the gain to .1? Maybe that will give me a brighter DV picture? Just kidding. I can try it but I'm so happy with SDR right now that I hesitate to do anything. If there is a new software release, I can try it then.


----------



## JereyWolf

Ricoflashback said:


> How about I set the screen size to 200" and the gain to .1? Maybe that will give me a brighter DV picture? Just kidding. I can try it but I'm so happy with SDR right now that I hesitate to do anything. If there is a new software release, I can try it then.


Who knows...maybe those values would end up working great.
Luckily, it doesn't cost anything to tweak settings back and forth.
If you do give it a shot, let us know!


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Maybe I used the wrong word. By color pop I mean very vivid (not necessarily oversaturated) hues and colors that I've never seen on any other projector I've had. Granted, I have not had a JVC PJ or any other high end PJ costing over $5K - but the colors on fabrics, older cars (just like I remembered them) and landscape, night scenes - - all of these on the GT1 are real eye candy, IMHO. And of course - - the black floor for a UST projector at this price.


Have you had a projector capable of full BT2020 color gamut before?

Even if you had a JVC, if it was calibrated properly to BT709, which is what you’re supposed to use for normal SDR type content like 1080p Blu-rays and HDTV shows like you’re using it, then it should look near identical to your ForMovie in SDR mode with the Color Space setting set to ON. Auto stretches the colors out to the full BT2020 gamut, or at least it did when I tested it. Maybe they fixed it afterwards, idk?

Oh are you maybe sending SDR/BT2020 from your Shield? If so then Auto would be fine since it uses a BT2020 gamut. 

Over saturated colors, blueish whites, extreme contrast settings like they do in BB showrooms are done for the very reason stated, because they look like “eye candy”.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JereyWolf said:


> Who knows...maybe those values would end up working great.
> Luckily, it doesn't cost anything to tweak settings back and forth.
> If you do give it a shot, let us know!


When it comes to HDR and DV, it's all about tone mapping. That's the secret sauce that only one projector company that I know of (JVC) who has truly mastered it. It's apparently very complex hence the Lumagen & MadVR's of the world. But I wouldn't put it past Chinese developers to keep upping their game in this area, as well.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> When it comes to HDR and DV, it's all about tone mapping. That's the secret sauce that only one projector company that I know of (JVC) who has truly mastered it. It's apparently very complex hence the Lumagen & MadVR's of the world. But I wouldn't put it past Chinese developers to keep upping their game in this area, as well.


Apparently these ForMovie Theaters do DTM too, like the JVCs!



> DARK FURY 88 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is not blown out. Is the only projector , a part Jvc that works correct the meg
> 
> 
> 
> Wow thanks for confirming what I’ve suspected for awhile now! Apparently the ForMovie does have dynamic tone mapping as I reported some time back, but then thought I made a mistake.
Click to expand...


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Maybe I used the wrong word. By color pop I mean very vivid (not necessarily oversaturated) hues and colors that I've never seen on any other projector I've had. Granted, I have not had a JVC PJ or any other high end PJ costing over $5K - but the colors on fabrics, older cars (just like I remembered them) and landscape, night scenes - - all of these on the GT1 are real eye candy, IMHO. And of course - - the black floor for a UST projector at this price.


I'm not sure what to call it either but when I had a Bomaker Polaris briefly the one thing that really stood out was the popping colors. My memory is not good but I remember it being especially great on some Directv concert material, the Rolling Stones for instance. But that may have been the 4K/HDR version. The Polaris, like the Formovie, is a three gun RGB laser UST.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> I'm not sure what to call it either but when I had a Bomaker Polaris briefly the one thing that really stood out was the popping colors. My memory is not good but I remember it being especially great on some Directv concert material, the Rolling Stones for instance. But that may have been the 4K/HDR version. The Polaris, like the Formovie, is a three gun RGB laser UST.


I don't know why but when folks refer to having great color and "pop," it is often associated on the AVS Forum with blown out TV's at Best Buy. And, you'll probably need an immediate "calibration" to make sure you have "accurate" colors. Not my cup of tea. If a lifeless, dull, "accurate" picture is the end result, then count me out.


----------



## Brajesh

extension23 said:


> Are there any specific recommendations that should be added for users that are using the nvidia shield TV?


I added recommendation on using this forked version of Kodi for DV use with UHD disc rips. But, for general HDR & streaming DV content, I expect @Dave Harper's upcoming custom settings (w/o any external processor) will apply. Unsure if separate settings may be needed for Roku w/DV as well (I don't have a Roku). I created placeholders for these in the guide if someone wants to add recommendations. So far, only one person (I believe you?) has requested edit access, just granted.



g3m said:


> Thank you for putting this together! A couple comments...


Thanks, added your recommendations to the guide. I agree about the red push w/the custom settings w/HDFury. Watched 'Elvis' last night, which has flamboyant colors to match Theater's own color flamboyancy , but in some scenes Elvis' & especially Colonel Tom Parker's faces looked lobster_-y_ reddish. @rjyap's screenshots here look better (assuming they're close to how they looked in person to him); @rjyap, can you tell us what settings you're using (& which source device)?

Another factor that no doubt affects picture settings we haven't really talked about is type of screen. I'm not using an ALR, but a 1.3 gain white screen. Wondering how one might adjust the various values to account for this?


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> I don't know why but when folks refer to having great color and "pop," it is often associated on the AVS Forum with blown out TV's at Best Buy. And, you'll probably need an immediate "calibration" to make sure you have "accurate" colors. Not my cup of tea. If a lifeless, dull, "accurate" picture is the end result, then count me out.


My calibrated colors and Greyscale are far from dull and lifeless. 

You can certainly have color pop and vividness from videos that call for it, like those mastered at P3 and higher color gamuts if your display can render them. 

My saying it about the ForMovie Theater is based on actual measurements that showed what should’ve been BT709 colors being artificially stretched to a BT2020 color gamut. That’s not the normal or true “pop” of which I’m speaking. 

If you want real color pop, watch a movie like Inside Out in an SDR or HDR BT2020 mode. This movie has confirmed colors that actually reach near full BT2020. It is not equivalent to putting in the Bluray version of this movie which has BT709 colors and then setting your display to stretch that out to BT2020.


----------



## chrislyt

Has anyone tried to connect it with Xbox Series X?
I tried mine but looks like my Xbox cannot switch to 4k resolution, i changed the settings of the HDMI to 2.0 or 2.1, but 1440p is the best i can get...


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯


dare i ask is there a price yet?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> OK - how is the picture with that large of a screen? Still good?
> 
> Lastly - I don't see it on your website, yet. What's the cost, out of the showroom, into my home theater or living room?
> 
> Oh - and you've probably listed this before but the distance from the back of the projector to the wall for this size of image? Thanks.


This is a prototype that we just got yesterday. Haven't taken any measurements, figured out pricing, etc yet


----------



## ProjectionHead

JRock3x8 said:


> dare i ask is there a price yet?


Cost on this is high, about 2x that of the 120" - not sure how receptive the market will be for this yet and may just treat it as a custom product. They have to fuse 2 surfaces together due to limitations of the height on a lenticular surface. There is a seam that is barely visible and we are going to scrutinize it today with various content and viewing distances to see how visible it is or not.
It's using the same frame & adjustable brackets as the smaller Spectra Projection Vantage screen so went together to problem and with no tensioning issues and the Formovie Theater looks pretty darn good at this size on this screen with the lights on in the room.


----------



## Brajesh

chrislyt said:


> Has anyone tried to connect it with Xbox Series X?
> I tried mine but looks like my Xbox cannot switch to 4k resolution, i changed the settings of the HDMI to 2.0 or 2.1, but 1440p is the best i can get...


Mine's able to switch to 4K & do DV as well. But, as with other source devices, takes 10-15 seconds for Theater to lock onto the signal. And this is with HDFury in the chain.


----------



## TimHuey

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯
> View attachment 3331400
> 
> View attachment 3331402


Is that as LOW as the image can go on the wall at 150"? I was hoping the bottom of the image would be closer to the projector I don't want to look too far up from a couch when watching a movie for neck comfort.


----------



## ProjectionHead

TimHuey said:


> Is that as LOW as the image can go on the wall at 150"? I was hoping the bottom of the image would be closer to the projector I don't want to look too far up from a couch when watching a movie for neck comfort.


No, the projector is not on the floor; it is on a stand. I will see if we can take some offset and throw measurements later today and share.

Here is some more context of placement.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> No, the projector is not on the floor; it is on a stand. I will see if we can take some offset and throw measurements later today and share.
> 
> Here is some more context of placement.
> View attachment 3331462


I gotta say that looks impressive. Is that a low ceiling room? Or a standard, 10 foot ceiling height?


----------



## JRock3x8

ProjectionHead said:


> Cost on this is high, about 2x that of the 120"


that's like $4k-ish then. Sigh.

Even if I had the money I would struggle to justify that kind of investment for my use case.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I gotta say that looks impressive. Is that a low ceiling room? Or a standard, 10 foot ceiling height?


Low ceiling? I know I'm not tall, but I'm not THAT short....


----------



## luisalbertokid

Hello, guys;
I've been following this thread with great interest. Since I live in Brasil 🇧🇷 we do not actually have show rooms where we can demo projectors, so basically everything we buy is on the internet and based on reviews we read. So I'm sorry if my question is silly but how would the Formovie Theater compare to the LG CineBeam HU810PW/AU810PB? From what I had they seem to be some of the best "affordable" laser projectors. Thanks!


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Low ceiling? I know I'm not tall, but I'm not THAT short....


Optical illusion, not smoke and mirrors.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯
> View attachment 3331400
> 
> View attachment 3331402


I can see light overscan to the right and possibly on the ceiling. Would a larger, black velvet frame help with the overshoot and reflections or just would it just shoot the beam by it?


----------



## Fox&304

Ricoflashback said:


> I can see light overscan to the right and possibly on the ceiling. Would a larger, black velvet frame help with the overshoot and reflections or just would it just shoot the beam by it?


Yeah I've ended up using a few more inches on my screen in order to avoid this light out of the frame. I'm ok with that, but it can be annoying depending on people.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Wow thanks for confirming what I’ve suspected for awhile now! Apparently the ForMovie does have dynamic tone mapping as I reported some time back, but then thought I made a mistake.


Nice! Does this affect doing Harpervision and would you switch it up now? I don't know if DTM is lost with player let DV. My gut says it would be but I that's speculations. I don't have enough knowledge of the mechanics behind it.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> I can see light overscan to the right and possibly on the ceiling. Would a larger, black velvet frame help with the overshoot and reflections or just would it just shoot the beam by it?


I covered my front wall with black velvet to "fix" this. Don't know if you can get away with that. I just order it off for Etsy for about $36 and tacked it up. Looks good with the lights on and amazing with them off and the GT1 running.


----------



## 94SupraTT

chrislyt said:


> Has anyone tried to connect it with Xbox Series X?
> I tried mine but looks like my Xbox cannot switch to 4k resolution, i changed the settings of the HDMI to 2.0 or 2.1, but 1440p is the best i can get...


It worked fine for me.

edit-I spoke too soon. There appears to be a EDID issue. I can get 4k to work but I think only on 1 of the HDMI inputs. Also, I have to toggle between HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 (EDID) because video drops out 1 minute or so after I turn on my XBOX.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> I covered my front wall with black velvet to "fix" this. Don't know if you can get away with that. I just order it off for Etsy for about $36 and tacked it up. Looks good with the lights on and amazing with them off and the GT1 running.


Probably something I can do when we buy our house. Reading through some of the JVC threads - - even those fine projectors have some light bleed to deal with. Those with a dark, black velvet "Elvis Batcave" don't have to worry about that. I still wonder if the right frame would help.


----------



## JackB

DesertDog said:


> Nice! Does this affect doing Harpervision and would you switch it up now? I don't know if DTM is lost with player let DV. My gut says it would be but I that's speculations. I don't have enough knowledge of the mechanics behind it.


Dave Harper,

If this is correct in that the DV support is indeed dynamic, and it has been shown that getting DV to work properly is very difficult, it would be a great service to your customers, most of who come from this thread I suspect, to take one home and work with it until you are able to come up with a complete set of parameters that will make this thing work for DV and HDR. I would suggest that most all of the users would buy and subscribe to whatever affordable platform and service you use to test. By affordable I mean Roku, Shield, FS, etc. For service I mean streaming services like Netflix, Prime, etc. Leave HDfury and MadVR out of it as they are not affordable by many if not most.

If you can't get it to work to your satisfaction then at least we will know that we have to move up to something like an HDfury to be sucessful. You also might learn enough to work with Formovie engineering to fix whatever problem you identify.


----------



## ProjectionHead

JackB said:


> Dave Harper,
> 
> If this is correct in that the DV support is indeed dynamic, and it has been shown that getting DV to work properly is very difficult, it would be a great service to your customers, most of who come from this thread I suspect, to take one home and work with it until you are able to come up with a complete set of parameters that will make this thing work for DV and HDR. I would suggest that most all of the users would buy and subscribe to whatever affordable platform and service you use to test. By affordable I mean Roku, Shield, FS, etc. For service I mean streaming services like Netflix, Prime, etc. Leave HDfury and MadVR out of it as they are not affordable by many if not most.
> 
> If you can't get it to work to your satisfaction then at least we will know that we have to move up to something like an HDfury to be sucessful. You also might learn enough to work with Formovie engineering to fix whatever problem you identify.


We're two steps ahead of you on this. Dave will be posting one of these up full time in his place very soon


----------



## JackB

ProjectionHead said:


> We're two steps ahead of you on this. Dave will be posting one of these up full time in his place very soon


Sounds good Brian. I have one of these on order with you and it would be great to be able to dial it in knowing it is going to look right.


----------



## JimBob1971

Dave Harper said:


> This is normal for all 3 panel projectors to some extent. It is called color shift and is most seen on all white backgrounds. It is due to the three different colors being used to make up the image, red, green and blue. They hit the DMD chip at different angles inside the projector and are reflected more prominently to one side or the other on screen.
> 
> Epson 3LCD projectors have this and even have a control setting to help alleviate it on screen.


That’s interesting, thanks. So I guess most people on here have the same on theirs then?

I’ve owned 2 Epson 3LCD projectors and both (to my eyes) had perfect whites whereas I noticed the issue on the Formovie straight away on content, not on slides. What is this setting in the 3LCD projector? I’ll dig out the Epson I still have and take another look.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Simple acrylic cover I purchased from Amazon for my GT1. Should keep most of the dust out without moving the PJ.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Simple acrylic cover I purchased from Amazon for my GT1. Should keep most of the dust out without moving the PJ.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3331620


Where are the borders? Does any heat build up during use or do you take it off when the projector is on?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Where are the borders? Does any heat build up during use or do you take it off when the projector is on?


You can see the square borders pretty easily if you look close. And of course, I take it off when the projector is on and then when I turn the projector off - - I let it cool down for five minutes and place it back on top. My main concern is the lens area and the area above it. It's pretty simple to take off and place back on as it's lightweight and sanded on all edges. I just slide it off gently.

It will be interesting to see how much dust accumulates on the top after not watching for a while.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> You can see the square borders pretty easily if you look close. And of course, I take it off when the projector is on and then when I turn the projector off - - I let it cool down for five minutes and place it back on top. My main concern is the lens area and the area above it. It's pretty simple to take off and place back on as it's lightweight and sanded on all edges. I just slide it off gently.
> 
> It will be interesting to see how much dust accumulates on the top after not watching for a while.


Sorry. Must be my old eyes. The only border that looks like a possible border is at the top of the image, withing 1/8" of raised edge. Was it pre-cut to this size or did you have to cut it?


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> I added recommendation on using this forked version of Kodi for DV use with UHD disc rips. But, for general HDR & streaming DV content, I expect @Dave Harper's upcoming custom settings (w/o any external processor) will apply. Unsure if separate settings may be needed for Roku w/DV as well (I don't have a Roku). I created placeholders for these in the guide if someone wants to add recommendations. So far, only one person (I believe you?) has requested edit access, just granted.
> 
> 
> Thanks, added your recommendations to the guide. I agree about the red push w/the custom settings w/HDFury. Watched 'Elvis' last night, which has flamboyant colors to match Theater's own color flamboyancy , but in some scenes Elvis' & especially Colonel Tom Parker's faces looked lobster_-y_ reddish. @rjyap's screenshots here look better (assuming they're close to how they looked in person to him); @rjyap, can you tell us what settings you're using (& which source device)?
> 
> Another factor that no doubt affects picture settings we haven't really talked about is type of screen. I'm not using an ALR, but a 1.3 gain white screen. Wondering how one might adjust the various values to account for this?


I’m using madVR with SDR BT2020 output to eliminate red push issue.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Sorry. Must be my old eyes. The only border that looks like a possible border is at the top of the image, withing 1/8" of raised edge. Was it pre-cut to this size or did you have to cut it?


Pre-cut. Easy-Peasy.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Pre-cut. Easy-Peasy.


How about a link?


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Simple acrylic cover I purchased from Amazon for my GT1. Should keep most of the dust out without moving the PJ.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3331620


Link?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> How about a link?


Link - 









Amazon.com: Acrylic Plexiglass Cast Transparent Plastic Sheet 12 x 20 Inch (.118" Thick), for Signs, DIY Projects : Industrial & Scientific


Amazon.com: Acrylic Plexiglass Cast Transparent Plastic Sheet 12 x 20 Inch (.118" Thick), for Signs, DIY Projects : Industrial & Scientific



www.amazon.com


----------



## Remy.Alexander

Ricoflashback said:


> It wasn't necessarily directed at you. All throughout this thread and even in the original Fengmi T1 forum - - the HD Fury Vertex2 is the predominant, suggested "fix" for a poor DV picture. I find that unacceptable. OK - that's my opinion and if others want to go down that LLDV path - - go for it. Spend whatever you want to fix DV with sources other than a Bluray movie. I'm happy with SDR and 4K streaming content and I'll leave it at that.


Agree- so tired of hearing hdfury this dhfury that. Jesus what a nightmare and the cost wtf. Lot people are just jerks and their little brains can't understand why you don't conform. I'm dealing with that in diy section lot of knuckleheads can't wrap their brain around a speaker that's not limited to 80hz. 

$3000 for the PJ let's say $1000 for screen then another $500+ for HDfury just get it "better" seems like a waste. All this Hdfury crap is a turn off and new users coming in to threads being bumbarded with must haves for best performance will likely be turned off. Hell I am- I'm just looking into 85" TV's now may say screw the PJ- Im using a 2018 6series tcl set it up and done. Never had to fiddle - my ever needed to. If I do end up snagging a PJ. I'll apply best settings for my device and be done- I just want 110" -


----------



## DesertDog

Remy.Alexander said:


> Agree- so tired of hearing hdfury this dhfury that. Jesus what a nightmare and the cost wtf. Lot people are just jerks and their little brains can't understand why you don't conform. I'm dealing with that in diy section lot of knuckleheads can't wrap their brain around a speaker that's not limited to 80hz.
> 
> $3000 for the PJ let's say $1000 for screen then another $500+ for HDfury just get it "better" seems like a waste. All this Hdfury crap is a turn off and new users coming in to threads being bumbarded with must haves for best performance will likely be turned off. Hell I am- I'm just looking into 85" TV's now may say screw the PJ- Im using a 2018 6series tcl set it up and done. Never had to fiddle - my ever needed to. If I do end up snagging a PJ. I'll apply best settings for my device and be done- I just want 110" -


I think a couple of you guys walked into a HDFury perfect storm here. It started with the T1 not having a CMS so a couple of the guys were using one to tweak the setting. Then when the GT1 came out, myself and a couple other early adopters already had a HDFury in our setups. So with having it already it was really easy to start talking to Dave about HarperVision on it. Early adopters also are usually more of the fiddling side too IMO. I'm trying solutions with and without it in the mix to see what gives me the best results. I'll go with whatever will allow me to dial it in to the best of my abilities.


----------



## clipghost

Remy.Alexander said:


> Agree- so tired of hearing hdfury this dhfury that. Jesus what a nightmare and the cost wtf. Lot people are just jerks and their little brains can't understand why you don't conform. I'm dealing with that in diy section lot of knuckleheads can't wrap their brain around a speaker that's not limited to 80hz.
> 
> $3000 for the PJ let's say $1000 for screen then another $500+ for HDfury just get it "better" seems like a waste. All this Hdfury crap is a turn off and new users coming in to threads being bumbarded with must haves for best performance will likely be turned off. Hell I am- I'm just looking into 85" TV's now may say screw the PJ- Im using a 2018 6series tcl set it up and done. Never had to fiddle - my ever needed to. If I do end up snagging a PJ. I'll apply best settings for my device and be done- I just want 110" -


Yup, it's insane. You should not NEED an extra device outside of the projector to make it look good. What made this projector look good without those devices? What are those settings. At this point there should be a standard Formovie Theater thread and an aftermarket one.


----------



## RickMes

Ricoflashback said:


> Simple acrylic cover I purchased from Amazon for my GT1. Should keep most of the dust out without moving the PJ.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3331620


Looks cool.and efficient for the dust on top of the lens. My concern however is dust getting in through the ventilation system into the optics system. That was my main problem with previous regular throw projectors.


----------



## Fox&304

clipghost said:


> Yup, it's insane. You should not NEED an extra device outside of the projector to make it look good. What made this projector look good without those devices? What are those settings. At this point there should be a standard Formovie Theater thread and an aftermarket one.


The Theater absolutely doesn't need any extra device to look stellar. I've been using it in SDR, HDR10, DV, on consoles, rips, streaming, and while I spent some time tweaking each mode in the settings, it delivers an incredible image.


----------



## Nicodevil

Brajesh said:


> My first pass at a centralized recommended settings & user guide. Still have more to add. Feedback welcome. Using Google Docs, and happy to provide edit access to Theater owners who want to contribute to this wiki style. @ProjectionHead, could you kindly add a link to this in post #1? Thanks.


Thanks a lot for you work. And all person sharing parameters

Man like you is the reason we go on theses king of forum.


----------



## rjyap

I don’t see any problem with HDFury. You can be happy with the unit without any additional device but some just like to tinkle and squeeze the final 5-10% performance out from the unit. I love MadVR DTM and the upscale from 1080p to 4K algo is so good that some time I’m not sure the source is native 4K or upscale.


----------



## Nicodevil

When i play DV video with kodiners i am able to modify the color setings. 
And by default color temperature are set as "warm" with paramater looking stangerly with parametres of David calibration.

Do you modify others parameters on DV or only on SDR ( Saturation , offset ....) ?


----------



## g3m

Nicodevil said:


> When i play DV video with kodiners i am able to modify the color setings.
> And by default color temperature are set as "warm" with paramater looking stangerly with parametres of David calibration.
> 
> Do you modify others parameters on DV or only on SDR ( Saturation , offset ....) ?


You need to independently set picture settings in SDR, HDR10 and DV if you want to change them. To only use one set of parameters, you would need to force the output of your source player to one kind (DV for exemple). The source player would be responsible for the content conversion (e.g, SDR to DV, HDR10 to DV). Some people like this approach for convenience while others will prefer to always play content in their original format. You can do that with players such as the Apple TV, but I don't know about Kodi.


----------



## Nicodevil

g3m said:


> You need to independently set picture settings in SDR, HDR10 and DV if you want to change them. To only use one set of parameters, you would need to force the output of your source player to one kind (DV for exemple). The source player would be responsible for the content conversion (e.g, SDR to DV, HDR10 to DV). Some people like this approach for convenience while others will prefer to always play content in their original format. You can do that with players such as the Apple TV, but I don't know about Kodi.


I am not fan of out sources if the projector can do the work by itself. ( Why by an added expensive device if you can do without him) 

With Kodi (kodiners 20alpha) i can open sdr hdr10 an DV format. 
That i don't know are the calibated setings for hdr10 and DV.

Does there are same than these finding on this forum for SDR or different ones ? 

My first idea IS they should be sames. It look very interessting that first colorimetric settings in DV are same than these finding by David. 

Maybe dolby give there agreement after a "standard calibration" of color done by default on T1.


----------



## JackB

Nicodevil said:


> I am not fan of out sources if the projector can do the work by itself. ( Why by an added expensive device if you can do without him)
> 
> With Kodi (kodiners 20alpha) i can open sdr hdr10 an DV format.
> That i don't know are the calibated setings for hdr10 and DV.
> 
> Does there are same than these finding on this forum for SDR or different ones ?
> 
> My first idea IS they should be sames. It look very interessting that first colorimetric settings in DV are same than these finding by David.
> 
> Maybe dolby give there agreement after a "standard calibration" of color done by default on T1.


Could someone translate what Nicodevil is saying here. What is Kodiners 20 Alfa?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Fox&304 said:


> The Theater absolutely doesn't need any extra device to look stellar. I've been using it in SDR, HDR10, DV, on consoles, rips, streaming, and while I spent some time tweaking each mode in the settings, it delivers an incredible image.


I wouldn’t discourage anyone from buying the Global Formovie T1 due to “out of the box” issues with DV & HDR content. Flat out, it’s still the best bang for the buck UST projector available today. The color gamut and black floor are unbeatable right now compared to any other UST PJ in its price range.

I primarily stream with the Nvidia Shield Pro and settings that turn off HDR and DV that renders an incredible SDR picture. That’s my choice and if others want to pursue other picture enhancements via other hardware and software, by all means, go for it.

My hope is that Formovie can provide updates that make me want to enable HDR and DV. If they don’t, I’m perfectly fine with a stellar SDR picture from both cable TV and especially Ultra HD content from Netflix and other sources. I’ve dialed in my picture settings and just focus on watching content like I’ve done with all my displays - TV’s and projectors.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RickMes said:


> Looks cool.and efficient for the dust on top of the lens. My concern however is dust getting in through the ventilation system into the optics system. That was my main problem with previous regular throw projectors.


Yes - not many options there. I don’t think there are any “sealed” light systems for projectors outside of a BenQ higher end PJ and even then, I’m not sure how well it works. I have an extended warranty on my PJ and hopefully I won’t have to use it. At the current GT1 price, I’d look to upgrade after five years anyway. That’s my magic number where technology seems to really improve price performance, features and benefits.


----------



## Nicodevil

( sorry for my english


JackB said:


> Could someone translate what Nicodevil is saying here. What is Kodiners 20 Alfa?


Kodiners is like Kodi but with a lot of bug correction. For example DV in mkv files
And i have the version 20 alpha. For instance Kodi IS on 19.4 and next will be the 20. "Alpha" is for beta test


----------



## Nicodevil

Ricoflashback said:


> I wouldn’t discourage anyone from buying the Global Formovie T1 due to “out of the box” issues with DV & HDR content. Flat out, it’s still the best bang for the buck UST projector available today. The color gamut and black floor are unbeatable right now compared to any other UST PJ in its price range.
> 
> I primarily stream with the Nvidia Shield Pro and settings that turn off HDR and DV that renders an incredible SDR picture. That’s my choice and if others want to pursue other picture enhancements via other hardware and software, by all means, go for it.
> 
> My hope is that Formovie can provide updates that make me want to enable HDR and DV. If they don’t, I’m perfectly fine with a stellar SDR picture from both cable TV and especially Ultra HD content from Netflix and other sources. I’ve dialed in my picture settings and just focus on watching content like I’ve done with all my displays - TV’s and projectors.


For me formovie is able to read HDR and DV video by itself. 
I have tested a lot of movie from my NAS without problem. 
For instance my only one is low network connection but i think is my network and not the projector.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Nicodevil said:


> For me formovie is able to read HDR and DV video by itself.
> I have tested a lot of movie from my NAS without problem.
> For instance my only one is low network connection but i think is my network and not the projector.


The problem is not in the reading or playback of HDR and DV sources. For me, it’s the poor and washed out, lifeless DV picture and the superior SDR picture compared to HDR with “out of the box” settings. Hey - if you like the DV and HDR picture as is - then enjoy!


----------



## Nicodevil

Ricoflashback said:


> The problem is not in the reading or playback of HDR and DV sources. For me, it’s the poor and washed out, lifeless DV picture and the superior SDR picture compared to HDR with “out of the box” settings. Hey - if you like the DV and HDR picture as is - then enjoy!


I undurstand more you point of view now. 
"out the box" without calibration i am completely agree with you. There is not natural colors or "life" picture.

I Hope is possible to calibrate DV source as SDR for having better pictures. 

Maybe mondoprojo or David have done this work on devices they have ?


----------



## Brajesh

Kodinerds.net is a German Kodi forum, where a guy named Maven developed custom (forked) versions of Kodi 19 & 20 that support DV using Shield TV Pro. Works well.


----------



## Nicodevil

Error


----------



## Dave Harper

luisalbertokid said:


> Hello, guys;
> I've been following this thread with great interest. Since I live in Brasil  we do not actually have show rooms where we can demo projectors, so basically everything we buy is on the internet and based on reviews we read. So I'm sorry if my question is silly but how would the Formovie Theater compare to the LG CineBeam HU810PW/AU810PB? From what I had they seem to be some of the best "affordable" laser projectors. Thanks!


I’ve tested and done reviews on both. I would buy the ForMovie Theater if it works in your environment. 

Speaking of environment, what is yours? If you have ambient light then I’d pair it with the proper CLR screen. 



DesertDog said:


> Nice! Does this affect doing Harpervision and would you switch it up now? I don't know if DTM is lost with player let DV. My gut says it would be but I that's speculations. I don't have enough knowledge of the mechanics behind it.


It should actually help it. You’d then be able to run a higher max luminance setting and the projector would tone map it as a standard HDR10 signal. People are doing something similar with LLDV going into their HTPC using VideoProcessor with MadVR. 



JimBob1971 said:


> That’s interesting, thanks. So I guess most people on here have the same on theirs then?
> 
> I’ve owned 2 Epson 3LCD projectors and both (to my eyes) had perfect whites whereas I noticed the issue on the Formovie straight away on content, not on slides. What is this setting in the 3LCD projector? I’ll dig out the Epson I still have and take another look.


The two techs are a little different. LCDs have three panels coming from different angles, converging using a prism before going out the lens. The DLP RGB lasers have three lasers converging on the DMD chip sequentially from differing angles. 

It’s really just a matter of how well they’re aligned. I think DLP being a reflective technology maybe makes it more visible. 

I think the setting is called Screen Uniformity or some such. You probably didn’t see the effect on your Epsons because it was set properly at the factory to begin with. 



Remy.Alexander said:


> Agree- so tired of hearing hdfury this dhfury that. Jesus what a nightmare and the cost wtf. Lot people are just jerks and their little brains can't understand why you don't conform. I'm dealing with that in diy section lot of knuckleheads can't wrap their brain around a speaker that's not limited to 80hz.
> 
> $3000 for the PJ let's say $1000 for screen then another $500+ for HDfury just get it "better" seems like a waste. All this Hdfury crap is a turn off and new users coming in to threads being bumbarded with must haves for best performance will likely be turned off. Hell I am- I'm just looking into 85" TV's now may say screw the PJ- Im using a 2018 6series tcl set it up and done. Never had to fiddle - my ever needed to. If I do end up snagging a PJ. I'll apply best settings for my device and be done- I just want 110" -





clipghost said:


> Yup, it's insane. You should not NEED an extra device outside of the projector to make it look good. What made this projector look good without those devices? What are those settings. At this point there should be a standard Formovie Theater thread and an aftermarket one.





Fox&304 said:


> The Theater absolutely doesn't need any extra device to look stellar. I've been using it in SDR, HDR10, DV, on consoles, rips, streaming, and while I spent some time tweaking each mode in the settings, it delivers an incredible image.


Nobody is saying you “need” it. It’s just an enhancement for those that want the benefits. It’s no different than any other add on type device, such as a Lumagen or envy. 

Many complained of DV being too dark, etc. so this is just a way to avoid the built in DV and do the Dolby processing in the source device and send it as HDR10, so the projector is none the wiser thinking it is just standard HDR10 so you can use a lot more of the settings to get hopefully a better image in the end. 

I didn’t use an HDFury for the Laser TV Showdown which the ForMovie won, so that tells you right there that it is not “needed”, but we also didn’t do any DV for that event. So if you want DV to perform as well as HDR10 on this projector without an HDFury, then the best course of action is to use the HDFury to convert DV/LLDV to HDR10 first with the help of an HDFury. 

Or just use SDR, but then you lose the benefits of this projector’s ultra wide color gamut from its true RGB lasers, unless you take advantage of some sources that can provide an SDR BT2020 output to the ForMovie Theater. 



rjyap said:


> I don’t see any problem with HDFury. You can be happy with the unit without any additional device* but some just like to tinkle and squeeze the final 5-10% performance out *from the unit. I love MadVR DTM and the upscale from 1080p to 4K algo is so good that some time I’m not sure the source is native 4K or upscale.


I for one certainly like to squeeze all my tinkle out, especially the last 5-10% before bed so I don’t have to wake up in the middle of the night to use the potty! ;-)


----------



## mirzank

Solved


----------



## luisalbertokid

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve tested and done reviews on both. I would buy the ForMovie Theater if it works in your environment.
> 
> Speaking of environment, what is yours? If you have ambient light then I’d pair it with the proper CLR screen.
> 
> 
> 
> It should actually help it. You’d then be able to run a higher max luminance setting and the projector would tone map it as a standard HDR10 signal. People are doing something similar with LLDV going into their HTPC using VideoProcessor with MadVR.
> 
> 
> 
> The two techs are a little different. LCDs have three panels coming from different angles, converging using a prism before going out the lens. The DLP RGB lasers have three lasers converging on the DMD chip sequentially from differing angles.
> 
> It’s really just a matter of how well they’re aligned. I think DLP being a reflective technology maybe makes it more visible.
> 
> I think the setting is called Screen Uniformity or some such. You probably didn’t see the effect on your Epsons because it was set properly at the factory to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is saying you “need” it. It’s just an enhancement for those that want the benefits. It’s no different than any other add on type device, such as a Lumagen or envy.
> 
> Many complained of DV being too dark, etc. so this is just a way to avoid the built in DV and do the Dolby processing in the source device and send it as HDR10, so the projector is none the wiser thinking it is just standard HDR10 so you can use a lot more of the settings to get hopefully a better image in the end.
> 
> I didn’t use an HDFury for the Laser TV Showdown which the ForMovie won, so that tells you right there that it is not “needed”, but we also didn’t do any DV for that event. So if you want DV to perform as well as HDR10 on this projector without an HDFury, then the best course of action is to use the HDFury to convert DV/LLDV to HDR10 first with the help of an HDFury.
> 
> Or just use SDR, but then you lose the benefits of this projector’s ultra wide color gamut from its true RGB lasers, unless you take advantage of some sources that can provide an SDR BT2020 output to the ForMovie Theater.
> 
> 
> 
> I for one certainly like to squeeze all my tinkle out, especially the last 5-10% before bed so I don’t have to wake up in the middle of the night to use the potty! ;-)


@Dave Harper thanks for the feedback! Yes, I have a bat cave, totally dark environment with walls, floor and ceiling painted in a near-black, very very dark shade of blue. I have a 120" 1.1 matte white screen (and an Epson 5040ub), will this screen work well with the Formovie? ALR/CLR screens cost an arm and a leg here in Brasil...
Thanks!


----------



## RickMes

If using mainly at night with no light, but bright walls should I still go for a CLR (my kid will watch sometimes during the day, but if needed I can shut out the light) or is it better to go for a standard neutral screen?

Also, I suppose it is better to run streaming apps from the Formovie (except Netflix, of course) than from nVidia Shield Pro, right? One less step in DV/HDR interpretations?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dave Harper

luisalbertokid said:


> @Dave Harper thanks for the feedback! Yes, I have a bat cave, totally dark environment with walls, floor and ceiling painted in a near-black, very very dark shade of blue. I have a 120" 1.1 matte white screen (and an Epson 5040ub), will this screen work well with the Formovie? ALR/CLR screens cost an arm and a leg here in Brasil...
> Thanks!


Since you have a very dark room I don’t think you have to use a CLR screen. The only thing you need to take into account is the frame of the screen with a UST projector because it comes at such an extreme angle underneath and the frame can get in the way of the image depending on how far out the projector needs to be from the wall.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Since you have a very dark room I don’t think you have to use a CLR screen. The only thing you need to take into account is the frame of the screen with a UST projector because it comes at such an extreme angle underneath and the frame can get in the way of the image depending on how far out the projector needs to be from the wall.


The larger the screen size, the farther away from the wall (screen.) Would that mean a less steep angle, as well? (At least on the bottom of the screen.) I was good in Algebra in HS and but quickly bailed out after Geometry. Also - a black velvet frame would seem to help minimize any reflections. But I don't believe it takes care of the light "shadow" on the sides and above the screen. Stewart Filmscreen is supposed to be coming out with a beveled (angled,) larger wrapped frame for UST projectors. I believe they are still testing it.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> The larger the screen size, the farther away from the wall (screen.) Would that mean a less steep angle, as well? (At least on the bottom of the screen.) I was good in Algebra in HS and but quickly bailed out after Geometry. Also - a black velvet frame would seem to help minimize any reflections. But I don't believe it takes care of the light "shadow" on the sides and above the screen. Stewart Filmscreen is supposed to be coming out with a beveled (angled,) larger wrapped frame for UST projectors. I believe they are still testing it.


Yes it’ll be less steep the larger the screen. Good points! 

I was going to mention the light leak on the ceiling but since he said it’s a bat cave I think that would be minimized. 

I heard about that Stewart screen too. Sounds exciting!


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Or just use SDR, but then you lose the benefits of this projector’s ultra wide color gamut from its true RGB lasers, unless you take advantage of some sources that can provide an SDR BT2020 output to the ForMovie Theater.


The Nvidia Shield Pro can switch to BT2020 depending on the source. So, I'm not sure if that is what my streaming sources are sending me (with HDR and thus DV "off" via the toggle button on the Nvidia Shield Pro) but the SDR picture is fantastic.


----------



## jimchao

Just got Formovie Theater projecting in a 135'' /1.0 acoustic screen and spent sometime for calibration. Here are the result
Rec. 709 RGB Balance thanks to 11 steps gray scale adjustment









Gray Scale Delta E









Gamma









D65









Native Gamut Post calibration









HDR RGB Balance (Could be better)








HDR Gray Scale DeltaE









In HDR Standard Mode, the brightness measured 60nits, and black floor below 0.02nit. Contrast is up to 3000:1 w/o dynamic brightness control. The CMS really help calibrating it accurately and produce amazing colour which is really impressed. All the setting in CMS are indevidual and flexable. The only regreat is the upper part is easy to lose its focus. 4K should't be blurred. Flowing pictures can't barely show my impresseion of it's P3 colour.


----------



## Nicodevil

jimchao said:


> Just got Formovie Theater projecting in a 135'' /1.0 acoustic screen and spent sometime for calibration. Here are the result
> Rec. 709 RGB Balance thanks to 11 steps gray scale adjustment
> View attachment 3331880
> 
> 
> Gray Scale Delta E
> View attachment 3331882
> 
> 
> Gamma
> View attachment 3331884
> 
> 
> D65
> View attachment 3331896
> 
> 
> Native Gamut Post calibration
> View attachment 3331898
> 
> 
> HDR RGB Balance (Could be better)
> View attachment 3331901
> 
> HDR Gray Scale DeltaE
> View attachment 3331900
> 
> 
> In HDR Standard Mode, the brightness measured 60nits, and black floor below 0.02nit. Contrast is up to 3000:1 w/o dynamic brightness control. The CMS really help calibrating it accurately and produce amazing colour which is really impressed. All the setting in CMS are indevidual and flexable. The only regreat is the upper part is easy to lose its focus. 4K should't be blurred. Flowing pictures can't barely show my impresseion of it's P3 colour.
> 
> View attachment 3331951
> 
> View attachment 3331952
> 
> View attachment 3331956
> 
> View attachment 3331957
> 
> View attachment 3331958
> 
> View attachment 3331960
> 
> View attachment 3331959
> 
> View attachment 3331955


Amazing 

What are your settings ? 
Do you have do that for DV too ? 

I think you demonstrate very well the projector could be perfect on standalone with good calibration. 

Great job.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> The Nvidia Shield Pro can switch to BT2020 depending on the source. So, I'm not sure if that is what my streaming sources are sending me (with HDR and thus DV "off" via the toggle button on the Nvidia Shield Pro) but the SDR picture is fantastic.


That would be awesome if it sends BT2020 and would explain your great colors and pop you mentioned!

I have a Shield too, but it’s only used as my Channels DVR server but maybe I can do a quick test to see if that’s what it’s doing.


----------



## JereyWolf

Dave Harper said:


> That would be awesome if it sends BT2020 and would explain your great colors and pop you mentioned!
> 
> I have a Shield too, but it’s only used as my Channels DVR server but maybe I can do a quick test to see if that’s what it’s doing.


Shield pro has a 12-bit bt.2020, 4k60hz setting that I use. You have to go through the custom display settings to find it.









It also seems important to leave the match content color space on...otherwise you have washed out color. If you try it out Dave, let us know what you think of SDR/bt.2020


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve tested and done reviews on both. I would buy the ForMovie Theater if it works in your environment.
> 
> Speaking of environment, what is yours? If you have ambient light then I’d pair it with the proper CLR screen.
> 
> 
> 
> It should actually help it. You’d then be able to run a higher max luminance setting and the projector would tone map it as a standard HDR10 signal. People are doing something similar with LLDV going into their HTPC using VideoProcessor with MadVR.
> 
> 
> 
> The two techs are a little different. LCDs have three panels coming from different angles, converging using a prism before going out the lens. The DLP RGB lasers have three lasers converging on the DMD chip sequentially from differing angles.
> 
> It’s really just a matter of how well they’re aligned. I think DLP being a reflective technology maybe makes it more visible.
> 
> I think the setting is called Screen Uniformity or some such. You probably didn’t see the effect on your Epsons because it was set properly at the factory to begin with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody is saying you “need” it. It’s just an enhancement for those that want the benefits. It’s no different than any other add on type device, such as a Lumagen or envy.
> 
> Many complained of DV being too dark, etc. so this is just a way to avoid the built in DV and do the Dolby processing in the source device and send it as HDR10, so the projector is none the wiser thinking it is just standard HDR10 so you can use a lot more of the settings to get hopefully a better image in the end.
> 
> I didn’t use an HDFury for the Laser TV Showdown which the ForMovie won, so that tells you right there that it is not “needed”, but we also didn’t do any DV for that event. So if you want DV to perform as well as HDR10 on this projector without an HDFury, then the best course of action is to use the HDFury to convert DV/LLDV to HDR10 first with the help of an HDFury.
> 
> Or just use SDR, but then you lose the benefits of this projector’s ultra wide color gamut from its true RGB lasers, unless you take advantage of some sources that can provide an SDR BT2020 output to the ForMovie Theater.
> 
> 
> 
> I for one certainly like to squeeze all my tinkle out, especially the last 5-10% before bed so I don’t have to wake up in the middle of the night to use the potty! ;-)


😆. Should be tinker.


----------



## JereyWolf

DesertDog said:


> I covered my front wall with black velvet to "fix" this. Don't know if you can get away with that. I just order it off for Etsy for about $36 and tacked it up. Looks good with the lights on and amazing with them off and the GT1 running.


After covering the wall, is the black floor more noticeable now? That was my experience. I used to use dim bias lighting at night and black letterbox appeared ultra dark next to the light....after covering the whole wall in velvet the letterbox looks a bit less black, I'm sure for perceived contrast reasons. But I'm thrilled at the effect the velvet has by making the image appear to float on the wall rather than obviously seeing the screen at night.


----------



## Joered101

jimchao said:


> Just got Formovie Theater projecting in a 135'' /1.0 acoustic screen and spent sometime for calibration. Here are the result
> Rec. 709 RGB Balance thanks to 11 steps gray scale adjustment
> View attachment 3331880
> 
> 
> Gray Scale Delta E
> View attachment 3331882
> 
> 
> Gamma
> View attachment 3331884
> 
> 
> D65
> View attachment 3331896
> 
> 
> Native Gamut Post calibration
> View attachment 3331898
> 
> 
> HDR RGB Balance (Could be better)
> View attachment 3331901
> 
> HDR Gray Scale DeltaE
> View attachment 3331900
> 
> 
> In HDR Standard Mode, the brightness measured 60nits, and black floor below 0.02nit. Contrast is up to 3000:1 w/o dynamic brightness control. The CMS really help calibrating it accurately and produce amazing colour which is really impressed. All the setting in CMS are indevidual and flexable. The only regreat is the upper part is easy to lose its focus. 4K should't be blurred. Flowing pictures can't barely show my impresseion of it's P3 colour.
> 
> View attachment 3331951
> 
> View attachment 3331952
> 
> View attachment 3331956
> 
> View attachment 3331957
> 
> View attachment 3331958
> 
> View attachment 3331960
> 
> View attachment 3331959
> 
> View attachment 3331955


Hey thanks for sharing!

Couldn't get my luminance curve that accurate. Is this calibeation in night mode?

Would be amazing if you'd be so kind to share your settings. and I can see you left Color Mod auto or off then? So you're using the native gamut even for your 709 content?

Thanks!


----------



## Joered101

jimchao said:


> Just got Formovie Theater projecting in a 135'' /1.0 acoustic screen and spent sometime for calibration. Here are the result
> Rec. 709 RGB Balance thanks to 11 steps gray scale adjustment
> View attachment 3331880
> 
> 
> Gray Scale Delta E
> View attachment 3331882
> 
> 
> Gamma
> View attachment 3331884
> 
> 
> D65
> View attachment 3331896
> 
> 
> Native Gamut Post calibration
> View attachment 3331898
> 
> 
> HDR RGB Balance (Could be better)
> View attachment 3331901
> 
> HDR Gray Scale DeltaE
> View attachment 3331900
> 
> 
> In HDR Standard Mode, the brightness measured 60nits, and black floor below 0.02nit. Contrast is up to 3000:1 w/o dynamic brightness control. The CMS really help calibrating it accurately and produce amazing colour which is really impressed. All the setting in CMS are indevidual and flexable. The only regreat is the upper part is easy to lose its focus. 4K should't be blurred. Flowing pictures can't barely show my impresseion of it's P3 colour.
> 
> View attachment 3331951
> 
> View attachment 3331952
> 
> View attachment 3331956
> 
> View attachment 3331957
> 
> View attachment 3331958
> 
> View attachment 3331960
> 
> View attachment 3331959
> 
> View attachment 3331955


I also can see you have this option to match colour content and I cannot find this anywhere? Is it a new firmware update or something because I am also up to date but can’t find this setting anywhere? Thanks


----------



## Nuno Campos

ProjectionHead said:


> 150” Spectra Projection Lenticular ALR with Formovie Theater 🤯
> View attachment 3331400
> View attachment 3331402


 That looks absolutely amazing. Any chance you could test that with the LG HU915QB? Seeing as the LG has the better DLP chip and possibly better optics, it should look breathtaking. Also, you mention that due to technical limitations, they have to use 2 panels seemed together. Would you say it is as noticeble as that Mirraviz screen that is tiled together, or this one is barely noticeable. Cause I’ll say this, at this size and this quality, there is literally no need to go to the movies. That is home cinema at its best.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nuno Campos said:


> That looks absolutely amazing. Any chance you could test that with the LG HU915QB? Seeing as the LG has the better DLP chip and possibly better optics, it should look breathtaking. Also, you mention that due to technical limitations, they have to use 2 panels seemed together. Would you say it is as noticeble as that Mirraviz screen that is tiled together, or this one is barely noticeable. Cause I’ll say this, at this size and this quality, there is literally no need to go to the movies. That is home cinema at its best.


We will be testing with several projectors, but primarily with the ones that say that they can support 150”.
The line was not visible to me from like 7 feet away, which in a 150” is not a reasonable viewing distance.
My mirraviz sample was only a 100”, and I was able to see the lines from even further than I would normally sit watching a screen of that size; you could even see them in the photos they published.
I stay in touch with mirraviz and they should have a new version soon that addresses this much better.


----------



## Nuno Campos

ProjectionHead said:


> We will be testing with several projectors, but primarily with the ones that say that they can support 150”.


That is one of the reasons I would like the LG to be tested with this screen. It would be nice to know which projectors go above their recommended maximum size and still perform amazingly and which ones are compatible but are just ok.
Look forward to seeing your results.


----------



## ba_crane

rati said:


> I’m currently in the market to change my projector, and considering the Epson 5050 or the Formovie Theather. Can you tell me why you liked more the Formovie? I have a light controlled room, with dark grey walls which seems similar to your room, so will appreciate your feedback.


Brajesh, I would also like to know. Was the Theater a considerably better image than the 5050 or would you only know a difference if looking side by side?


----------



## JRock3x8

"The line was not visible to me from like 7 feet away, which in a 150” is not a reasonable viewing distance. "

It is if you like FOV 50+ (me!)

I sit 10' from my 150" but only because I don't want to get divorced. =D


----------



## ba_crane

ProjectionHead said:


> We will be testing with several projectors, but primarily with the ones that say that they can support 150”.
> The line was not visible to me from like 7 feet away, which in a 150” is not a reasonable viewing distance.
> My mirraviz sample was only a 100”, and I was able to see the lines from even further than I would normally sit watching a screen of that size; you could even see them in the photos they published.
> I stay in touch with mirraviz and they should have a new version soon that addresses this much better.


Would you please test some of these UST projectors with an AT screen?


----------



## Fox&304

Here are my current settings for those that might be interested.
Disclaimer : I'm no calibrator, nor have some interest in getting a "perfectly calibrated image". I completely understand the benefits of calibration, but I'm aiming more for a picture that is to my tastes while not being overblown in anything, keeping highlights, dark areas, satisfying pop and pleasure.
I'm using Office mode for the brightness settings.


*DOLBY VISION *
Screen Size 100
Screen Gain 1.6


Picture modeDV BrightBrightness53Contrast53Saturation65Hue+2Sharpness10GammaMiddleMax VividONLumaMiddleLocal ContrastHighRangeAutoColor SpaceAuto


*HDR *


Picture modeStandardBrightness58Contrast60Saturation50Hue0Sharpness10GammaMiddleMax VividONLumaMiddleLocal ContrastHighRangeAutoColor SpaceAuto


*SDR*


Picture modeStandardBrightness50Contrast55Saturation52Hue0Sharpness10GammaMiddleMax VividONLumaMiddleLocal ContrastHughRangeAutoColor SpaceAuto


If anything isn't mentioned, you can assume it's off or default value.
I'll probably tinker a bit more with those later, but happy to discuss those if anybody wants some details.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ba_crane said:


> Would you please test some of these UST projectors with an AT screen?


I don't have a full size AT screen to test with right now.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RickMes said:


> If using mainly at night with no light, but bright walls should I still go for a CLR (my kid will watch sometimes during the day, but if needed I can shut out the light) or is it better to go for a standard neutral screen?
> 
> Also, I suppose it is better to run streaming apps from the Formovie (except Netflix, of course) than from nVidia Shield Pro, right? One less step in DV/HDR interpretations?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


No. Not in my opinion. I'd never run native apps with a projector. The processing power and options with a streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro will run circles around any native apps. Plus - - Android updates will be more frequent with a standalone media player. For grins, I tried the native apps on the Formovie GT1 and was underwhelmed. A definite difference in picture quality. And not for the better.


----------



## RickMes

Ricoflashback said:


> No. Not in my opinion. I'd never run native apps with a projector. The processing power and options with a streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro will run circles around any native apps. Plus - - Android updates will be more frequent with a standalone media player. For grins, I tried the native apps on the Formovie GT1 and was underwhelmed. A definite difference in picture quality. And not for the better.


Thanks for the info!
Looking forward to test my new toy!


----------



## badboris

Dave Harper said:


> Since you have a very dark room I don’t think you have to use a CLR screen. The only thing you need to take into account is the frame of the screen with a UST projector because it comes at such an extreme angle underneath and the frame can get in the way of the image depending on how far out the projector needs to be from the wall.


with all due respect Dave, but what about ceiling reflection? Don’t you think he will need to black velvet his ceiling to prevent this, or a CLR without this treatment would still be of benefit?


----------



## ba_crane

Does anyone have any first hand experience comparing this to something like Epson 5050 or nx5? I have a 5040 and am content with it, but looking at options. If this would allow me to have a larger screen with at least equivalent picture quality I might be interested.


----------



## DesertDog

JereyWolf said:


> After covering the wall, is the black floor more noticeable now? That was my experience. I used to use dim bias lighting at night and black letterbox appeared ultra dark next to the light....after covering the whole wall in velvet the letterbox looks a bit less black, I'm sure for perceived contrast reasons. But I'm thrilled at the effect the velvet has by making the image appear to float on the wall rather than obviously seeing the screen at night.


I think it helped but so I'm trying to remember for sure what the levels looked like before. It might partially be due to less distraction now. The reflect line on the wall used to drive me nuts and pull my attention. So I think staying focused on the screen helps keep your eyes "calibrated" to what it's showing. The end effect with the "floating" and everything makes it worth it IMO. I'm building today the fake ceiling that I'm going to try to do to control those reflections too. It's probably not needed but I think it'll end up looking cool if this works. 

I also have some stick-on black velvet that's used for drawer lining. I used it to cover the top boards of my stand since they were a bit too glossy. That worked nicely so now I'm thinking that maybe I'll do the top of the PJ too. it's the only thing I can see now at night and it should make it disappear a bit too.


----------



## Dave Harper

badboris said:


> with all due respect Dave, but what about ceiling reflection? Don’t you think he will need to black velvet his ceiling to prevent this, or a CLR without this treatment would still be of benefit?


Yes good point. I was looking at it from the perspective of him saying his entire room is blacked out already, plus the frame on these screens sticks out a couple inches usually, as my ST130 does, so it would block a lot of this light spill. 

Adding black velvet would really help too!



DesertDog said:


> *I also have some stick-on black velvet that's used for drawer lining*. I used it to cover the top boards of my stand since they were a bit too glossy. That worked nicely so now I'm thinking that maybe I'll do the top of the PJ too. it's the only thing I can see now at night and it should make it disappear a bit too.


Do you have a link for this stuff? I may have a couple applications that could use this.


----------



## patels922

Covering the walls and ceiling make a tremendous difference ....I used 1/2 inch foam boards and 3M Super 78 (NOT 77 as it melts the foam) to create panels that I screwed onto walls and ceiling


















Some people have used this as well: https://www.amazon.com/Adhesive-Vel...6-476e-a141-cf8312295bed&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Do you have a link for this stuff? I may have a couple applications that could use this.


This is the one I got off of Amazon. Here's a shot of it for the shelf the GT1 sits on with it. I had been glossy and reflective like the lower shelf on the left. One caution with it is that it's thin and can be a pain to lay down cleanly over a large area. The shelf the PJ is on is about 36"x 24" and I could no get it laid flat with no bubbles when I tried in the 36" direction. I ended up doing 3 strips of it going front to back instead of side to side. Even at 24" it was a pain and I had to keep working it. 



Amazon.com


----------



## Sonny Red

Well I have received my Formovie Theater today and big big big disappointment.
The focus is just horrible on the top left and right. Can’t get better than this




Besides can’t use my audio System Sony HT-A9 while I am using the app Apple TV. Make restart the Formovie Theater. Tried several times and keep rebooting. Unplug my audio system and no more reboot.

I think I am gonna ask to return my Formovie as I am in the 14 days after having received it.

I was so happy to get it but the disappointment is much bigger.

the top bottom of the screen is so blurry that this projector does not even look like a 1080p projector but more like a 480p projector.


----------



## spinforu

Sonny Red said:


> Well I have received my Formovie Theater today and big big big disappointment.
> The focus is just horrible on the top left and right. Can’t get better than this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides can’t use my audio System Sony HT-A9 while I am using the app Apple TV. Make restart the Formovie Theater. Tried several times and keep rebooting. Unplug my audio system and no more reboot.
> 
> I think I am gonna ask to return my Formovie as I am in the 14 days after having received it.
> 
> I was so happy to get it but the disappointment is much bigger.
> 
> the top bottom of the screen is so blurry that this projector does not even look like a 1080p projector but more like a 480p projector.


Wow that is bad. Where did you purchase?


----------



## Sonny Red

spinforu said:


> Wow that is bad. Where did you purchase?


bought it on Formovie.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

Sonny Red said:


> bought it on Formovie.com


Have you let it warm up for about 30 min before trying to set the focus?


----------



## Brajesh

ba_crane said:


> Brajesh, I would also like to know. Was the Theater a considerably better image than the 5050 or would you only know a difference if looking side by side?


Sorry for not replying earlier. Let me preface this by just it's just my opinion (obviously ). 5050UB has great blacks & contrast, no doubt, but its 4K via eShift to me never had the level of sharpness of a 4K DLP PJ, especially a laser, did/does. Yes, I did compare my 5050UB against the original Xiaomi 4K UST, then Wemax A300, before eBay-ing off my 5050UB. While tri-laser USTs like Formovie Theater lack the sharpness of aformentioned (& other) single lasers, it's still sharper than 5050UB. It's more 4K, and with better colors on Theater, it makes 4K movies & shows better.



Sonny Red said:


> Well I have received my Formovie Theater today and big big big disappointment.
> The focus is just horrible on the top left and right. Can’t get better than this


How large is your screen? If your screenshot is of a screen larger than 100 inches, then the (lack of complete) focus isn't out of the norm for T1/Theater. This is one of the cons of T1/Theater, especially the top-left corner focus. The only way to get it perfect is opening up the unit & manually pushing the focus ring like so (which may void warranty).


----------



## leo0111127

Sonny Red said:


> Well I have received my Formovie Theater today and big big big disappointment.
> The focus is just horrible on the top left and right. Can’t get better than this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides can’t use my audio System Sony HT-A9 while I am using the app Apple TV. Make restart the Formovie Theater. Tried several times and keep rebooting. Unplug my audio system and no more reboot.
> 
> I think I am gonna ask to return my Formovie as I am in the 14 days after having received it.
> 
> I was so happy to get it but the disappointment is much bigger.
> 
> the top bottom of the screen is so blurry that this projector does not even look like a 1080p projector but more like a 480p projector.


High F-stop number lens and smaller lens aperture caused the sharpness issue.
In optic design, the black level and sharpness are seesaw. The high F-stop number lens caused smaller lens aperture and worse shapness in big size screen but with good balck level performance. Formovie theatre acheives the good black level with high F-stop number lens, smaller lens aperture to sacrifice the sharpness in big size.


----------



## Sonny Red

I paired my Formovie Theater with a 120 inches Vividstorm S PRO floor rising tensionned screen.

There is something really strange with the focus.

Projector was on for 2 hours so he was enough heaten. I was so disappointed that I ended up turning it off and wrote a mail to Formovie asking for a return and refund.

I turn if on 1 hour later telling myself to give it last one try and the focus was acceptable even ok on the top.

I really don’t understand what is going on. As I told before on my first attempt the projector has been on for more than 2 hours and I did not touch the focus before the second attempt.


----------



## Notrial

Sonny Red said:


> I paired my Formovie Theater with a 120 inches Vividstorm S PRO floor rising tensionned screen.
> 
> There is something really strange with the focus.
> 
> Projector was on for 2 hours so he was enough heaten. I was so disappointed that I ended up turning it off and wrote a mail to Formovie asking for a return and refund.
> 
> I turn if on 1 hour later telling myself to give it last one try and the focus was acceptable even ok on the top.
> 
> I really don’t understand what is going on. As I told before on my first attempt the projector has been on for more than 2 hours and I did not touch the focus before the second attempt.


Focus issues aside, how happy are you with the screen itself? I plan on buying the exactly same one… any creases? How is screen uniformity?


----------



## mirzank

I’ve noticed something terribly odd with the formovie. Not sure this is the rainbow effect people talk about. I thought usually that meant there’s some colour bleed around letters or something.
but basically on any kind of plain image such as light clouds or a plain light colour I see terrible banding and blocky images. Like it seems like a terribly encoded video or something.
Specifically I was watching Nope on a 4k rip. Rest of it was amazing colours all over, but in a lot of the scenes where they show the sky I see this. Also in a scene the lead male character was wearing a plane light colour sweater and it was all blocky.
my dnr and noise reduction is off, tried turning it on but no luck.
anybody know what’s going on?

also I was watching the tv show black bird. There is a scene where someone is standing against a Whitewooden house, and I saw weird black lines flickering whenever that white showed up. Never had this issue with my previous benq 2050a.


----------



## 3sprit

Sonny Red said:


> I really don’t understand what is going on. As I told before on my first attempt the projector has been on for more than 2 hours and I did not touch the focus before the second attempt.


 After two hours it wasn't in focus and then it was?


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> After two hours it wasn't in focus and then it was?


Yes. As weird as it sound.
The words « focus » on the top left and right were very blurry even after the first 2 hours.

Then 1 hour after I decided to give it one last try I just went to the focus correction and the 2 focus words on the top left and right were not blurry anymore.

This is weird, isn’t ?


----------



## 3sprit

🤷‍♂️


----------



## Sonny Red

Notrial said:


> Focus issues aside, how happy are you with the screen itself? I plan on buying the exactly same one… any creases? How is screen uniformity?


I ordered it on vividstorm.eu as I live in France and even the order was a nightmare.

I ordered a S Pro 120 inches with a T02 wired AC trigger and they sent me the acoustic transparent version with perforations all over the screen area which I did not want as I have a white wall and did not want to see the with behind. This is what it looked like :



So had to send it back to Netherlands.


The second screen was not the good one. It was still an acoustic transparent and *worse it was not for UST but a long obsidian for long throw….*

Had to send it back. The third one was the good one except the fact that I have horizontal creases on this one from left to right and e every 20 centimeters from top to bottom. Each creases is 1-2 centimeters wide.

Look on the Vividstorm suppor and they consider it as normal. They say that they are supposed to disappear when the screen is open for several days. What is this **** excuse ????? So we buy a floor tensionned screen to let it open ??? So in this case what the point of buying this instead of a fixed screen ????

You can see below how it looks like on the focus white screen and close to the screen :



But from my couch with real content (movies,TV shows, video games) I don’t see them but still, given the price of the screen (2200€), this is hard to accept.

But this is already the third screen in 1 months. I am fed up waiting after DHL to pick them up and waiting again to receive the new one.


----------



## Sonny Red

I almost forgot I have something weird with Android TV.

I downloaded the application Apple TV as I bought Top Gun : Maverick.

I plug my Sony HT-A9 on the eARC input. It work on the first attempt but had drop outs as the control box was hidden with the Formovie Theater.

I decided to move the HT-A9 control box which looks like a big Apple TV 4K and also to disconnect the wifi and plug an Ethernet cable to avoid interferences.

Then I wanted to test if the dropouts disappear but as soon as I launch the movie under the Apple TV app the movie freezes within 2 seconds and it makes reboot Android TV so the Formovie theater. Try to uninstall the app and reinstall it but it makes no difference. The Formovie theater kept on rebooting as soon as a launched the movie.

So I unplug the HT-A9 and launch the movie and no more freezing app and rebooting. I plug my HT-A9 back and the app freezing and Android reboot went back.

So it seems that there is a bug with the Apple TV app when you have audio system plugged in.

I have also paired a Bluetooth Sony WH-1000XM4 to be able to watch movies late at night and the Bluetooth keep on disconnecting as soon as I am in the Android TV menus and not pressing on the remote at least every 15 seconds. As long as I navigate no issues but if I don’t use the remote for 15 seconds ds the Bluetooth disconnect. Then I press any button on the remote and the blutooth connection is back.


----------



## Notrial

Sonny Red said:


> I ordered it on vividstorm.eu as I live in France and even the order was a nightmare.
> 
> I ordered a S Pro 120 inches with a T02 wired AC trigger and they sent me the acoustic transparent version with perforations all over the screen area which I did not want as I have a white wall and did not want to see the with behind. This is what it looked like :
> 
> 
> 
> So had to send it back to Netherlands.
> 
> 
> The second screen was not the good one. It was still an acoustic transparent and *worse it was not for UST but a long obsidian for long throw….*
> 
> Had to send it back. The third one was the good one except the fact that I have horizontal creases on this one from left to right and e every 20 centimeters from top to bottom. Each creases is 1-2 centimeters wide.
> 
> Look on the Vividstorm suppor and they consider it as normal. They say that they are supposed to disappear when the screen is open for several days. What is this **** excuse ????? So we buy a floor tensionned screen to let it open ??? So in this case what the point of buying this instead of a fixed screen ????
> 
> You can see below how it looks like on the focus white screen and close to the screen :
> 
> 
> 
> But from my couch with real content (movies,TV shows, video games) I don’t see them but still, given the price of the screen (2200€), this is hard to accept.
> 
> But this is already the third screen in 1 months. I am fed up waiting after DHL to pick them up and waiting again to receive the new one.


That sounds awful 😞
I’m also in EU and planned to order from the same company (they have a package with Formovie and screen bundled) and your post makes me question the whole thing.
2200€ for a screen with defects is insane.
I ordered a screen sample from them and I liked the quality compared to Hilux one for example…

Regarding the return, did they pay for it? I’m sure shipping back the 120 inch screen must be expensive.

Regarding the first one they sent, was only the black bottom part perforated? If that one didn’t have any creases you probably should have kept it 🙁


----------



## 3sprit

Grégory has never written about this problem.
However Vividstorm.eu is not Vividstorm.
Where did you read that this is normal?


----------



## whiskthecat

Checking back in again to ask if the HDMI handshaking issue that requires the user to manually flip between HDMI revisions in the menu has been resolved yet?


----------



## Brajesh

Don’t know about flipping between versions, but I have mine at 2.1 (not auto) and the handshaking problem is there. Takes about 10-15 seconds to lock in after input, signal, resolution or color space changes.


----------



## mirzank

whiskthecat said:


> Checking back in again to ask if the HDMI handshaking issue that requires the user to manually flip between HDMI revisions in the menu has been resolved yet?


I had this problem only once in the past 3-4 weeks that I’ve owned it. In the past few days I’ve turned in on and off probably a dozen times never seen the issue.


----------



## Sonny Red

Notrial said:


> That sounds awful 😞
> I’m also in EU and planned to order from the same company (they have a package with Formovie and screen bundled) and your post makes me question the whole thing.
> 2200€ for a screen with defects is insane.
> I ordered a screen sample from them and I liked the quality compared to Hilux one for example…
> 
> Regarding the return, did they pay for it? I’m sure shipping back the 120 inch screen must be expensive.
> 
> Regarding the first one they sent, was only the black bottom part perforated? If that one didn’t have any creases you probably should have kept it 🙁


Yes they paid for it because it was their mistake each time.

I read that this was normal on vividstorm website :









FAQ







vividstormscreen.com


----------



## DARK FURY 88

In Europe there Is italian distributor.
Cinema e Sound.. Motorized pet Crystal screen 120 inch with Formovie and there Is full quality control and calibration service on these bundle. I bought from them 100 inch motorized screen.. Nothing to complain. I ordered a Nividia shield pro to compare with Apple TV to see which Is the best solution..


----------



## mirzank

mirzank said:


> I’ve noticed something terribly odd with the formovie. Not sure this is the rainbow effect people talk about. I thought usually that meant there’s some colour bleed around letters or something.
> but basically on any kind of plain image such as light clouds or a plain light colour I see terrible banding and blocky images. Like it seems like a terribly encoded video or something.
> Specifically I was watching Nope on a 4k rip. Rest of it was amazing colours all over, but in a lot of the scenes where they show the sky I see this. Also in a scene the lead male character was wearing a plane light colour sweater and it was all blocky.
> my dnr and noise reduction is off, tried turning it on but no luck.
> anybody know what’s going on?
> 
> also I was watching the tv show black bird. There is a scene where someone is standing against a Whitewooden house, and I saw weird black lines flickering whenever that white showed up. Never had this issue with my previous benq 2050a.



























A few images of the issues. Ignore the rest of the washed out image as it was fine to the naked eye, but it demonstrates very clearly the issue any time there are light colour clouds or colours. If I stream 1080p the issue is not there, it’s only with 4k. Using plex with Apple TV 4K. 
is this some setting I need to change to fix this ?


----------



## leo0111127

Sonny Red said:


> s on for 2 hours so he was enough heaten.





Sonny Red said:


> Yes. As weird as it sound.
> The words « focus » on the top left and right were very blurry even after the first 2 hours.
> 
> Then 1 hour after I decided to give it one last try I just went to the focus correction and the 2 focus words on the top left and right were not blurry anymore.
> 
> This is weird, isn’t ?


If you got the


Sonny Red said:


> I paired my Formovie Theater with a 120 inches Vividstorm S PRO floor rising tensionned screen.
> 
> There is something really strange with the focus.
> 
> Projector was on for 2 hours so he was enough heaten. I was so disappointed that I ended up turning it off and wrote a mail to Formovie asking for a return and refund.
> 
> I turn if on 1 hour later telling myself to give it last one try and the focus was acceptable even ok on the top.
> 
> I really don’t understand what is going on. As I told before on my first attempt the projector has been on for more than 2 hours and I did not touch the focus before the second attempt.


Lens are not pure glass ones. Some of the UST lens made by polycarbonate which will change the optical length with temperature factor. Only the pure glass lens has no the temprature focus issue.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> View attachment 3332716
> 
> View attachment 3332717
> 
> View attachment 3332718
> 
> A few images of the issues. Ignore the rest of the washed out image as it was fine to the naked eye, but it demonstrates very clearly the issue any time there are light colour clouds or colours. If I stream 1080p the issue is not there, it’s only with 4k. Using plex with Apple TV 4K.
> is this some setting I need to change to fix this ?


Have you tried using a player other than Plex? I haven't seen anything like that using my ATV4K with either Emby or Infuse as my player. So first off I wanted to make sure it's not Plex issue. Infuse can use your Plex backend btw if want to try the trial version of it. 

My next thought is what are you Video settings in the ATV? (Settings App -> Video and Audio -> top section. I have mine set to 4k SDR, YCBCr, 4:4:4, and for match Content I only have range being matched right now. I liked the UI's PQ better with SDR over DV or HDV. 

If you're not showing the 4k options then you have the HDMI version issue. Go in the GT1's Settings -> Device Preferences -> Inputs -> HDMI EDID Version and change it to EDID 2.1 from auto. A bunch of us had that as an issue too.


----------



## RickMes

I was delivered my Formovie Theater yesterday and though for the time being I am projecting on a white egg painted wall with lots of imperfections I can only praise the projector for now (fingers crossed no problems arrise).

Only issue is that I am a bit confused with the RGB HDMI (auto/limited/full), which seems to work reverse of what I think it usually does, and also the COLOR SPACE option which I don't exactly understand how it works in relation to both a nVidia Shield Pro and PS4 Pro settings.

Also, since projection is looking fine in my white egg wall, I don't think I need a lower gain screen. So, I am wondering if there are CLR screens with more neutral gain than the in usual 0.4 and 0.6.

Anyone? Thanks!


----------



## Sonny Red

As some of you may know I received my Formovie Theater yesterday.

I hooked up my Sony audio system HT-A9on the eARC HDMI 3 input but I have a lot of dropouts. Don’t understand why.

The issue does not come from my Sony HT-A9 because when I plugged it back on my Sony OLED no more dropouts.

I set the HDMI EDID to 2.1 but it does make any difference. No choice right know to use the built in speaker B&W.

Do you know where it could come from ?


----------



## Notrial

DARK FURY 88 said:


> In Europe there Is italian distributor.
> Cinema e Sound.. Motorized pet Crystal screen 120 inch with Formovie and there Is full quality control and calibration service on these bundle. I bought from them 100 inch motorized screen.. Nothing to complain. I ordered a Nividia shield pro to compare with Apple TV to see which Is the best solution..


Interesting… do you know if they ship outside Italy?
Also, which brand of screen are they bundling? Assuming XY if it’s pet crystal?


----------



## Joered101

mirzank said:


> I’ve noticed something terribly odd with the formovie. Not sure this is the rainbow effect people talk about. I thought usually that meant there’s some colour bleed around letters or something.
> but basically on any kind of plain image such as light clouds or a plain light colour I see terrible banding and blocky images. Like it seems like a terribly encoded video or something.
> Specifically I was watching Nope on a 4k rip. Rest of it was amazing colours all over, but in a lot of the scenes where they show the sky I see this. Also in a scene the lead male character was wearing a plane light colour sweater and it was all blocky.
> my dnr and noise reduction is off, tried turning it on but no luck.
> anybody know what’s going on?
> 
> also I was watching the tv show black bird. There is a scene where someone is standing against a Whitewooden house, and I saw weird black lines flickering whenever that white showed up. Never had this issue with my previous benq 2050a.


Hey! I had the exact same thing. And it is only in movie mode I don’t know what’s going on. Switch to game or standard and use the same colour profile and it should go. Something buggy about movie preset. I only get it in there. I get blotches of overexposed and also weird grain. Annoying and I thought my unit was defective but change the mode and it goes away and doesn’t come back?


----------



## Sonny Red

chrislyt said:


> Has anyone tried to connect it with Xbox Series X?
> I tried mine but looks like my Xbox cannot switch to 4k resolution, i changed the settings of the HDMI to 2.0 or 2.1, but 1440p is the best i can get...


I have the same issue as you with my PS5 and Xbox Series X but only on HDMI 1 where I am stuck in 640 * 480 and can’t switch to 4K. 

But on HDMI 2 & 3 I am able to switch to 4K. 

To those who have a PS5 or an Xbox Series X could you check on HDMI 1 input if you can switch your PS5 or Xbox Series X in 4K ?


----------



## DesertDog

Joered101 said:


> Hey! I had the exact same thing. And it is only in movie mode I don’t know what’s going on. Switch to game or standard and use the same colour profile and it should go. Something buggy about movie preset. I only get it in there. I get blotches of overexposed and also weird grain. Annoying and I thought my unit was defective but change the mode and it goes away and doesn’t come back?


I'll check movie mode when I get home tonight. I think that's what I'm running in already but I'm using Dave's GT1 and HDFury settings. Those are easy to toggle off though for me to see it plain. 

To try to replicate, are you getting it with all video resolutions or is it only for resolutions < 4K? Checking on if it could be a scaling issue.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Internet connection blown away again. No fix that I know of outside of a total reset. Won‘t even scan for networks. All I care about is firmware updates as I never use the native apps. Can you update the GT1 via USB?


----------



## Nazgul

Is it my imagination or is this kinda...in beta? It seems like they got it working in *very *specific situations, but didn't really QC others. Bit concerning, I ordered one and am actually happy it's going to get here in 4-6 weeks so they iron out the bugs. Not looking forward of rushing to test it out in my return window. :-/


----------



## DARK FURY 88

Notrial said:


> Interesting… do you know if they ship outside Italy?
> Also, which brand of screen are they bundling? Assuming XY if it’s pet crystal?


Yes they do.
Company name of the screen Is WuPro..same screen type of Xy.


----------



## mirzank

Ricoflashback said:


> Internet connection blown away again. No fix that I know of outside of a total reset. Won‘t even scan for networks. All I care about is firmware updates as I never use the native apps. Can you update the GT1 via USB?


I think the wifi issue has something to do with the router wifi settings being used. For a few weeks I had it at my other house, no wifi connection issues, only once it didn’t connect automatically and i restarted and connected to wifi no problem.
The funny thing is the way wifi is set up in this home is quite janky and I did it quickly; no great equipment and I always have issues with my iPhone and mac on this.

now I brought it to my other home, I have linksys velop mesh here, all immaculately set up. And after the first couple of times of working fine now whenever I start the pj it can’t find wifi until I restart (no need to reset). Then it scans and connects by itself. But once I turn it off and on same thing, no wifi, won’t even see any wifi networks until I restart.
So I think it MAY have something to do with wifi security or the channel or something else with the setup.


----------



## 3sprit

Sonny Red said:


> Yes they paid for it because it was their mistake each time.
> 
> I read that this was normal on vividstorm website :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vividstormscreen.com


Is this normal? 🤔🤬🤷‍♂️


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> Is this normal? 🤔🤬🤷‍♂️
> View attachment 3333001


No they are pretty aware of this common defect (horizontal creases) and they say on their website that this is normal.

The solution according to them is to let the screen open and after a few days that the creases will disappear.

1) this is false. There are many people who said that even after 2 weeks the creases were still there.

2) even if it was true what’s the point of selling/buying a tensionned floor screen in a case if you have to let it open all the time ????
If so then the case is useless and you’d better buy a fixed screen which is cheaper. And your tensionned floor screen by being open all the time get dust and if you have a cat I won’t bet on a long time life of your screen without any scratches.


----------



## Notrial

Sonny Red said:


> No they are pretty aware of this common defect (horizontal creases) and they say on their website that this is normal.
> 
> The solution according to them is to let the screen open and after a few days that the creases will disappear.
> 
> 1) this is false. There are many people who said that even after 2 ways the creases were still there.
> 
> 2) even if it was true what’s the point of selling/buying a tensionned floor screen in a case if you have to let it open all the time ????
> If so then the case is useless and you’d better buy a fixed screen which is cheaper. And your tensionned floor screen by being open all the time get dust and if you have a cat I won’t bet on a long time life of your screen without any scratches.


This is getting ridiculous…
They must have huge margins on those CLR screens if they are fine with shipping them back and forth a few times.

@DARK FURY 88 Italian shop and bundle deal sounds better than vividstorm.eu (and 500€ cheaper), but that WuPro screen brand is a total mistery. Feels like buying cat in a bag for 2K€ ☹


----------



## DARK FURY 88

Notrial said:


> This is getting ridiculous…
> They must have huge margins on those CLR screens if they are fine with shipping them back and forth a few times.
> 
> @DARK FURY 88 Italian shop and bundle deal sounds better than vividstorm.eu (and 500€ cheaper), but that WuPro screen brand is a total mistery. Feels like buying cat in a bag for 2K€ ☹


I have It. The screen Is same quality of Xy. Choice Is yours


----------



## Notrial

DARK FURY 88 said:


> I have It. The screen Is same quality of Xy. Choice Is yours


Would you mind sharing a few photos of the screen if it’s not too much trouble? 
I know I’m a bit off topic so I apologise 😊


----------



## ProjectionHead

3sprit said:


> Is this normal? 🤔🤬🤷‍♂️
> View attachment 3333001


Oil-type stains on CLR type screens is not uncommon. You really can only see them from right up close and at 90 degrees from center of screen - i.e on the side of the screen when you are moving/installing it. I've seen this on almost every brand of CLR type screen. On the "good" ones, you won't see any of those marks when you get at a more reasonable (but still extended) viewing angle and as you move back from screen.
If you can see these marks when looking straight at screen, I would absolutely consider it a defect.
The Vividstorm screen, while not perfect is still a pretty darn good option, especially considering the price point. Here in the USA, the only other other real alternative is from Elite Screens, and with their comparable DarkUST surface you will be spending 2x more than the Vividstorm.
While by no means is $2,000+ an insignificant amount of money to spend on a screen, the Vividstorm screen is very inexpensive for what it is and you really shouldn't have an expectation of perfection on a product engineered to be the least expensive option of it's type.
I have the horizontal lines on our Vividstorm as well, but they aren't visible when viewing from a reasonable viewing distance and I am unable to see any of the oil type marks while on-axis viewing.


----------



## mirzank

DesertDog said:


> Have you tried using a player other than Plex? I haven't seen anything like that using my ATV4K with either Emby or Infuse as my player. So first off I wanted to make sure it's not Plex issue. Infuse can use your Plex backend btw if want to try the trial version of it.
> 
> My next thought is what are you Video settings in the ATV? (Settings App -> Video and Audio -> top section. I have mine set to 4k SDR, YCBCr, 4:4:4, and for match Content I only have range being matched right now. I liked the UI's PQ better with SDR over DV or HDV.
> 
> If you're not showing the 4k options then you have the HDMI version issue. Go in the GT1's Settings -> Device Preferences -> Inputs -> HDMI EDID Version and change it to EDID 2.1 from auto. A bunch of us had that as an issue too.


Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction. For me it’s not the hdmi issue as it’s on 2.1 and also have the same ycbcr and 4:4:4 settings. I haven’t tried match range ti on but I’ll try it. 

but based on you saying infuse works fine I did some research and turns out plexon atv does have an issue with playing 4k videos as exactly this problem has been described All the way back 6-8 months ago. It seems lots of people have issues with it and plex just hasn’t bothered fixing it.
I downloaded infuse but the trial version it seems doesn’t play 4k uhd which is what these files are in. I’ll pay for the pro version but not a fan of the interface and search seems to be janky. But yeah if it gives better video I’ll go with it.


----------



## kraine

Brian you have the tapes, I have the tapes and everyone else has the tapes on a CLR screen (Vividstorm or whatever). If not, it would not be a CLR model but an ALR;

CLR screens are composed of an assembly of strips. It is this assembly that is visible outside of the projection, it is not visible during the film. These are special screens with thousands of horizontal slats embedded in their surface which, at an angle of 45°, only reflect the light coming from below.
It is for this technical reason that CLR screens are limited to 120 inches.

An ALR screen is cut from a single block and can be made in a larger size.

Before crying scandal and defect, it is necessary to know what we are talking about.


----------



## Ricoflashback

kraine said:


> Brian you have the tapes, I have the tapes and everyone else has the tapes on a CLR screen (Vividstorm or whatever). If not, it would not be a CLR model but an ALR;
> 
> CLR screens are composed of an assembly of strips. It is this assembly that is visible outside of the projection, it is not visible during the film. These are special screens with thousands of horizontal slats embedded in their surface which, at an angle of 45°, only reflect the light coming from below.
> It is for this technical reason that CLR screens are limited to 120 inches.
> 
> An ALR screen is cut from a single block and can be made in a larger size.
> 
> Before crying scandal and defect, it is necessary to know what we are talking about.


Sounds like a "CLR" screen would be preferable to an "UST ALR" screen. Probably better with ambient light. By how much? I'm not certain.

***Whoops - looks like Elite describes their CLR screen under their "Ambient Light Rejecting" category. Really looking to see if there is much difference in picture quality from my WEMAX 100" UST ALR screen. 

Example - Elite Screens lists three types of "ALR" screens: 1. Aeon CLR 2, 2. Aeon CLR 3 and 3. Aeon CLR series with "Starbright CLR."


----------



## 3sprit

kraine said:


> Before crying scandal and defect, it is necessary to know what we are talking about.


In France, money grows on trees.
Good 👍


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> In France, money grows on trees.
> Good 👍


Let them eat cake. Sorry. I had to do that.


----------



## Notrial

kraine said:


> Brian you have the tapes, I have the tapes and everyone else has the tapes on a CLR screen (Vividstorm or whatever). If not, it would not be a CLR model but an ALR;
> 
> CLR screens are composed of an assembly of strips. It is this assembly that is visible outside of the projection, it is not visible during the film. These are special screens with thousands of horizontal slats embedded in their surface which, at an angle of 45°, only reflect the light coming from below.
> It is for this technical reason that CLR screens are limited to 120 inches.
> 
> An ALR screen is cut from a single block and can be made in a larger size.
> 
> Before crying scandal and defect, it is necessary to know what we are talking about.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> Thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction. For me it’s not the hdmi issue as it’s on 2.1 and also have the same ycbcr and 4:4:4 settings. I haven’t tried match range ti on but I’ll try it.
> 
> but based on you saying infuse works fine I did some research and turns out plexon atv does have an issue with playing 4k videos as exactly this problem has been described All the way back 6-8 months ago. It seems lots of people have issues with it and plex just hasn’t bothered fixing it.
> I downloaded infuse but the trial version it seems doesn’t play 4k uhd which is what these files are in. I’ll pay for the pro version but not a fan of the interface and search seems to be janky. But yeah if it gives better video I’ll go with it.


Ah, cool. I'm not a Plex user anymore so I wasn't aware of their playback issue. I dropped plex about 4 years ago now for an Emby backend with Infuse on ATV and the Emby client on my Zidoo. I'm a little surprised that you're not a fan of the Infuse UI. It's one of the reasons I switched to it. I liked the layout better than Plex and I was getting sick of Plex pushing streaming services. I only wanted it for my library. Search I never use so I can't talk to it.


----------



## ProjectionHead

kraine said:


> Brian you have the tapes, I have the tapes and everyone else has the tapes on a CLR screen (Vividstorm or whatever). If not, it would not be a CLR model but an ALR;
> 
> CLR screens are composed of an assembly of strips. It is this assembly that is visible outside of the projection, it is not visible during the film. These are special screens with thousands of horizontal slats embedded in their surface which, at an angle of 45°, only reflect the light coming from below.
> It is for this technical reason that CLR screens are limited to 120 inches.
> 
> An ALR screen is cut from a single block and can be made in a larger size.
> 
> Before crying scandal and defect, it is necessary to know what we are talking about.


I’m not the Brian you are replying to, am I?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Sounds like a "CLR" screen would be preferable to an "UST ALR" screen. Probably better with ambient light. By how much? I'm not certain.
> 
> ***Whoops - looks like Elite describes their CLR screen under their "Ambient Light Rejecting" category. Really looking to see if there is much difference in picture quality from my WEMAX 100" UST ALR screen.
> 
> Example - Elite Screens lists three types of "ALR" screens: 1. Aeon CLR 2, 2. Aeon CLR 3 and 3. Aeon CLR series with "Starbright CLR."


CLR is a trademarked term by Elite standing for ceiling light rejecting for their ALR for UST.
It has been co-opted to refer to this type of technology but not all “CLR type” screens are the same


----------



## hzeid

the projector which I just bought (FORMOVIE THEATER) has stop responding to the remote control, any solution, I have Logitech Harmony Elite, which I fail to find suitable configuration for the projector


----------



## spinforu

Pound for pound (dollar to performance) is this the best projector ultra short throw or not for this price range?


----------



## JereyWolf

spinforu said:


> Pound for pound (dollar to performance) is this the best projector ultra short throw or not for this price range?


Yes


----------



## kraine

ProjectionHead said:


> I’m not the Brian you are replying to, am I?


Of course it’s you but only the first part of my answer is fir you the end was for sonny red.


----------



## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> Of course it’s you but only the first part of my answer is fir you the end was for sonny red.


Sorry to repeat but *when you sell floor rising screens and that you say in your FAQ that if you want to make those creases disappear you have to let the screen open all the time yes I call it scandal.*

In Europe a 120 inch screen directly on vividstorm is 2200€ and worse if you buy it to a third party dealer for that price you get a 72 inches and a 120 inches will cost 3400€ which is not that far from an Elite Screen kestrel floor rising screen. Vividstorm made huge huge margins on the screens so those creases should not be there. 

The first screen they sent me and which was not the reference I ordered was free of creases so it’s no inherent to the screen fabric otherwise ALL the screens would be affected by that.


----------



## kraine

So it was not a CLR (see my first answer, the CLR screen of Vividstorm is composed of an assembly of strips!)


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## Sonny Red

kraine said:


> So it was not a CLR (see my first answer, the CLR screen of Vividstorm is composed of an assembly of strips!)


Yes it’s not a CLR but ALR made for UST projectors


----------



## RickMes

Can anyone tell me how long you need to let a laser projector cool down before turning it on again?
Is it okay to turn it back on, after you turned it down? Should it stay on if you think you'll be using it again in like half and hour?


----------



## mirzank

hzeid said:


> the projector which I just bought (FORMOVIE THEATER) has stop responding to the remote control, any solution, I have Logitech Harmony Elite, which I fail to find suitable configuration for the projector


if you’re using the official remote then you probably need to Bluetooth pair it again I’m settings. 
the harmony I’m not familiar with but if it has Bluetooth you should be able to configure it.


----------



## Fox&304

hzeid said:


> the projector which I just bought (FORMOVIE THEATER) has stop responding to the remote control, any solution, I have Logitech Harmony Elite, which I fail to find suitable configuration for the projector


Happened a few times to me. You have to remove the AC plug from the device completely in order to make it start again. 
I'd avise pairing a Google TV remote app for iOS/Android because it's recognized when sometimes the controller fails, and you can start a new pairing of the officiel remote that way.
As for the harmony, I'm using a fire TV profile, and it works.


----------



## Dave Harper

@Ricoflashback and others interested, here is what I was talking about with leaving Color Gamut on AUTO with SDR as opposed to setting it to ON, where it switches between the proper color gamuts depending on what’s presented by the source. You’d think AUTO would do that, but for some reason it just “automatically” stays in its full native color gamut mode which is all the way out near full BT2020, even when the colors should be the same as the source for things like BT709. 

In AUTO it stretches the colors out to BT2020:









When you set it to ON it reins it in to near the proper BT709 gamut points:










So as I said, if it’s left on AUTO the colors may appear to be “better” and have more “pop”, but that’s probably because those colors are being stretched and over saturated, which may look good at first to your eyes but they aren’t at the right level. 

Setting it to ON brings it much closer to the proper color rendition and if you watch for a bit you should notice it looking more natural and pleasing. 

Like I also said though, if your source (Shield?) can map the BT709 into a BT2020 container beforehand then you should be fine leaving it on AUTO.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> @Ricoflashback and others interested, here is what I was talking about with leaving Color Gamut on AUTO with SDR as opposed to setting it to ON, where it switches between the proper color gamuts depending on wha it’s presented by the source. You’d think AUTO would do that, but for some reason it just “automatically” stays in its full native color gamut mode which is all the way out near full BT2020, even when the colors should be the same as the source for things like BT709.
> 
> In AUTO it stretches the colors out to BT2020:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you set it to ON it reins it in to near the proper BT709 gamut points:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So as I said, if it’s left on AUTO the colors may appear to be “better” and have more “pop”, but that’s probably because those colors are being stretched and over saturated, which may look good at first to your eyes but they aren’t at the right level.
> 
> Setting it to ON brings it much closer to the proper color rendition and if you watch for a bit you should notice it looking more natural and pleasing.
> 
> Like I also said though, if your source (Shield?) can map the BT709 into a BT2020 container beforehand then you should be fine leaving it on AUTO.


Color me a guy who likes "pop." Not torch & cartoony mode, mind you. There is a difference.

Less pop, less color does not equal "more natural and pleasing" to my eyes. But, I know it's a personal preference. Rumor has it that the AVS Forum is going to require ALL posters to have their displays 100% calibrated to exact standards. Anyone not complying will receive a "Standards Infraction," with the next step being "Home Monitoring." Just kidding.


----------



## Ricoflashback

spinforu said:


> Pound for pound (dollar to performance) is this the best projector ultra short throw or not for this price range?


And in this corner, the undisputed, undefeated, UST projector in the world - please welcome from China - Formovie’s Ferocious GT1! Let’s get ready to w-a-t-c-h…


----------



## ba_crane

Ricoflashback said:


> And in this corner, the undisputed, undefeated, UST projector in the world - please welcome from China - Formovie’s Ferocious GT1! Let’s get ready to w-a-t-c-h…


Can you comment on how the contrast, colors, sharpness, brightness compare to popular long throw projectors like the Epson 5050?


----------



## spinforu

spinforu said:


> Pound for pound (dollar to performance) is this the best projector ultra short throw or not for this price range?


I should have stated this more clear. Is this the best of any sort of projector in this price range? Thanks!


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> Color me a guy who likes "pop." Not torch & cartoony mode, mind you. There is a difference.
> 
> Less pop, less color does not equal "more natural and pleasing" to my eyes. But, I know it's a personal preference. Rumor has it that the AVS Forum is going to require ALL posters to have their displays 100% calibrated to exact standards. Anyone not complying will receive a "Standards Infraction," with the next step being "Home Monitoring." Just kidding.


It’s not “less color”, it is the right color.


----------



## Nicodevil

Dave Harper said:


> @Ricoflashback and others interested, here is what I was talking about with leaving Color Gamut on AUTO with SDR as opposed to setting it to ON, where it switches between the proper color gamuts depending on wha it’s presented by the source. You’d think AUTO would do that, but for some reason it just “automatically” stays in its full native color gamut mode which is all the way out near full BT2020, even when the colors should be the same as the source for things like BT709.
> 
> In AUTO it stretches the colors out to BT2020:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you set it to ON it reins it in to near the proper BT709 gamut points:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So as I said, if it’s left on AUTO the colors may appear to be “better” and have more “pop”, but that’s probably because those colors are being stretched and over saturated, which may look good at first to your eyes but they aren’t at the right level.
> 
> Setting it to ON brings it much closer to the proper color rendition and if you watch for a bit you should notice it looking more natural and pleasing.
> 
> Like I also said though, if your source (Shield?) can map the BT709 into a BT2020 container beforehand then you should be fine leaving it on AUTO.


Thanks for this. Settings in ON 👍


----------



## clipghost

Anyone in SoCal have this thing for me to check out in person? I would appreciate it! Or know where I could see it in a store locally? Thanks!


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> @Ricoflashback and others interested, here is what I was talking about with leaving Color Gamut on AUTO with SDR as opposed to setting it to ON, where it switches between the proper color gamuts depending on what’s presented by the source. You’d think AUTO would do that, but for some reason it just “automatically” stays in its full native color gamut mode which is all the way out near full BT2020, even when the colors should be the same as the source for things like BT709.
> 
> In AUTO it stretches the colors out to BT2020:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you set it to ON it reins it in to near the proper BT709 gamut points:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So as I said, if it’s left on AUTO the colors may appear to be “better” and have more “pop”, but that’s probably because those colors are being stretched and over saturated, which may look good at first to your eyes but they aren’t at the right level.
> 
> Setting it to ON brings it much closer to the proper color rendition and if you watch for a bit you should notice it looking more natural and pleasing.
> 
> Like I also said though, if your source (Shield?) can map the BT709 into a BT2020 container beforehand then you should be fine leaving it on AUTO.


What are your settings for this. I just don’t get what’s going on with my formovie…. In Rec 709 my references aren’t that close or in the boxes. It struggles to reach the right saturation in rec 709 with Color space on?
And cyans and way off when In bt 2020.
Help! Just an enthusiast that wants a Color accurate image haha


----------



## RTS01

Hi guys! New to the forum. Just ordered my Formovie Theater from ProjectorScreen.com. Do you guys think the Vava 120 inch UST ALR screen will suffice and be good quality? The build quality looks good and it's about $900 much cheaper than other similar options. Any thoughts on this?


----------



## 3sprit

Dave Harper said:


> Like I also said though, if your source (Shield?) can map the BT709 into a BT2020 container beforehand then you should be fine leaving it on AUTO.


Is it possible to do this with an AppleTV?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> It’s not “less color”, it is the right color.


Right for you ain't right for me. That implies 100% accuracy and do I smell "calibration?" A 100% calibrated picture (if that's at all possible) doesn't necessarily mean you will like the picture. Add that to "you're not watching what the director intended" to my list of "check please" manifestos.


----------



## Sonny Red

Hello,

I have found what's causing the audio dropouts on my audio system Sony HT-A9 when connected to the Formovie Theater.

It's the eARC auto/off under the settings Bowers&Wilkins sound.

If I let the eARC to auto I have dropouts every 2 seconds. If I turn it off no more dropouts.

Do you know where it could come from ?


----------



## Ricoflashback

RTS01 said:


> Hi guys! New to the forum. Just ordered my Formovie Theater from ProjectorScreen.com. Do you guys think the Vava 120 inch UST ALR screen will suffice and be good quality? The build quality looks good and it's about $900 much cheaper than other similar options. Any thoughts on this?


You should be fine with that screen. I have a cheapo, 100" WEMAX UST ALR screen and it works very well. IMHO - - there is not much difference in the UST ALR/CLR screen material with lenticular, "sawtooth" screens today. Especially with significant ambient light in the room. All of these screens, sans the "fresnel" type, will looked washed out with any appreciable light in the room. 

At night - - you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between a $400 screen and a $2000 screen. Now - can you squeeze a better picture out of a higher priced screen? Possibly. And a black velvet, wrapped frame will do a better job with the light reflections around the frame. Hopefully, there will be some improvements with UST ALR screens in the future. Maybe a way to add more brightness while maintaining the black floor. 

In summation, you should be fine with that Vava screen. Just remember the limitations of UST ALR screens during the daytime in terms of picture quality.


----------



## imperyal

RTS01 said:


> Hi guys! New to the forum. Just ordered my Formovie Theater from ProjectorScreen.com. Do you guys think the Vava 120 inch UST ALR screen will suffice and be good quality? The build quality looks good and it's about $900 much cheaper than other similar options. Any thoughts on this?


I'm brand new to PJ's this pic is with the Vava 100" minutes after turning on the Theater for the first time. The build quality is excellent and very nice to put together. The extra tensioning bars help. I put it together alone and ended up with a couple of areas that didn't look like I had installed the springs properly, added a little tension to all 4 sides, hung it on the wall, and after a couple of days, all the lines went away. This is during the day, with sunlight outside and 4 lamp light fixture to the right. Not sure if there is hate on for the screen but for me it's great. 










.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> IMHO - - there is not much difference in the UST ALR/CLR screen material with lenticular, "sawtooth" screens today. Especially with significant ambient light in the room. All of these screens, sans the "fresnel" type, will looked washed out with any appreciable light in the room.


Rico, with all due respect, what is that opinion based on? There absolutely is a difference and we’ve “discussed” this multiple times in various threads.
I know that you don’t feel that the pictures I’ve posted showing a clear difference in black level, texture and speckle is good enough, but it’s very appearent that there are differences.
Have you seen any other UST ALR besides your Wemax? In the same room at same time?


----------



## Fox&304

I love this PJ 

Even Basic youtube videos shine with this PJ+Screen combo.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Rico, with all due respect, what is that opinion based on? There absolutely is a difference and we’ve “discussed” this multiple times in various threads.
> I know that you don’t feel that the pictures I’ve posted showing a clear difference in black level, texture and speckle is good enough, but it’s very appearent that there are differences.
> Have you seen any other UST ALR besides your Wemax? In the same room at same time?
> View attachment 3333965
> 
> View attachment 3333972


First of all, one of the screenshots you show is from a defunct company. So that screen isn't available anymore. The checkerboard is nice and I appreciate the effort. Some of those screens have even darker blacks but at the expense of a brighter picture. While there might be a difference in picture quality (and to what degree, percentage, I do not know) - at night (my main point) you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between many UST ALR screens. 

Black level performance with the GT1 is exceptional with my cheapo WEMAX purchased during Amazon Prime Days. That's doesn't mean I won't upgrade my screen in the future. But for those looking to save $$$ - - you certainly can make do with much lower cost screens without significant picture quality loss, IMHO. 

So - no fear of buying the GT1 and having to purchase an expensive screen to enjoy this projector right now. You can always upgrade in the future. As I said earlier - - there are some new developments in UST ALR screens (Stewart Filmscreen is testing a new bezel design) and here's hoping there are some improvements with UST ALR screens in the future. With the rapid growth in UST projectors - - I believe this will happen.


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> What are your settings for this. I just don’t get what’s going on with my formovie…. In Rec 709 my references aren’t that close or in the boxes. It struggles to reach the right saturation in rec 709 with Color space on?
> And cyans and way off when In bt 2020.
> Help! Just an enthusiast that wants a Color accurate image haha


Yes that gamut chart image is post calibration so there were a whole host of adjustments made to get it that close, but even just going from AUTO to ON you can see the gamut points go from being way out near BT2020 down to around the BT709 points. This is a good starting point to begin your SDR calibrations from. 



3sprit said:


> Is it possible to do this with an AppleTV?


I don’t believe it’s possible to get SDR/BT2020 from the AppleTV, but you can force everything to HDR10 or Dolby Vision which will then remap any BT709 SDR content into a BT2020 “container”. 

This is essentially what UHD HDR Blu-rays are doing with DCI-P3. It is mapped into the BT2020 color gamut. 



Ricoflashback said:


> *Right for you ain't right for me. *That implies 100% accuracy and do I smell "calibration?" A 100% calibrated picture (if that's at all possible) doesn't necessarily mean you will like the picture. Add that to "you're not watching what the director intended" to my list of "check please" manifestos.


Right for the specifications as written by the governing body which every mastering house who makes the videos you watch uses. If you deviate from those then the color is not as intended. 

Nobody, especially me, is saying you can’t set and enjoy ANY setting however you wish and enjoy it fully to the extent that it releases a boatload of endorphins into your system! Have at it, but your constant replies to me don’t make you “more right” and I am just here to help others who may not think or like things as you do, so I am just giving _factual_ information for anyone to use as they see fit. Whether you or anyone uses this information is totally up to you and them. 

Just know that in any industry you need standards so it’s not the Wild West which would cause utter chaos and confusion between businesses and their end users. I am merely passing on this information from the specifications. Don’t shoot the messenger. 

Enjoy your ForMovie as I know you will, and so will I once I have one here more permanently.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Yes that gamut chart image is post calibration so there were a whole host of adjustments made to get it that close, but even just going from AUTO to ON you can see the gamut points go from being way out near BT2020 down to around the BT709 points. This is a good starting point to begin your SDR calibrations from.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t believe it’s possible to get SDR/BT2020 from the AppleTV, but you can force everything to HDR10 or Dolby Vision which will then remap any BT709 SDR content into a BT2020 “container”.
> 
> This is essentially what UHD HDR Blu-rays are doing with DCI-P3. It is mapped into the BT2020 color gamut.
> 
> 
> 
> Right for the specifications as written by the governing body which every mastering house who makes the videos you watch uses. If you deviate from those then the color is not as intended.
> 
> Nobody, especially me, is saying you can’t set and enjoy ANY setting however you wish and enjoy it fully to the extent that it releases a boatload of endorphins into your system! Have at it, but your constant replies to me don’t make you “more right” and I am just here to help others who may not think or like things as you do, so I am just giving _factual_ information for anyone to use as they see fit. Whether you or anyone uses this information is totally up to you and them.
> 
> Just know that in any industry you need standards so it’s not the Wild West which would cause utter chaos and confusion between businesses and their end users. I am merely passing on this information from the specifications. Don’t shoot the messenger.
> 
> Enjoy your ForMovie as I know you will, and so will I once I have one here more permanently.


No one is shooting the messenger. And when I hear the words "factual information," I grab my wallet. And I wouldn't obfuscate the discussion by talking about the "governing body which every mastering house who makes the videos you watch uses." As we all know - - mastering is more an art than science. There are tons of discrepancies in the video quality of 4K and straight Blu-ray discs. Just like there are tons of differences in Dolby Atmos soundtracks. (P.S. - I strictly stream or watch cable.)

I'll agree that standards are a "guard rail," and nothing more. I use "out of the box" settings with some tweaking. I believe 90% or more folks are that way - - in that, their display is NOT calibrated to "standards." That doesn't make it right or wrong, IMHO. But once you bring up "standards" - - EVERYBODY is wrong unless they adhere to that standard - - however that "standard" is interpreted.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> First of all, one of the screenshots you show is from a defunct company. So that screen isn't available anymore.


Whether that specific brand is still selling in the USA or not is irrelevant; the picture shows there are differences, despite your opinion.

I’m not trying to pick a fight, I like you, but you are not speaking from experience - only from speculation and conjecture when you keep saying that all lenticular surfaces are the same.
They are not and that is a fact.

In the dark, the differences are far less significant in regards to black level and brightness, but texture and speckle differences still persist and impact picture quality.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> No one is shooting the messenger. And when I hear the words "factual information," I grab my wallet. And I wouldn't obfuscate the discussion by talking about the "governing body which every mastering house who makes the videos you watch uses." As we all know - - mastering is more an art than science. There are tons of discrepancies in the video quality of 4K and straight Blu-ray discs. Just like there are tons of differences in Dolby Atmos soundtracks. (P.S. - I strictly stream or watch cable.)
> 
> I'll agree that standards are a "guard rail," and nothing more. I use "out of the box" settings with some tweaking. I believe 90% or more folks are that way - - in that, their display is NOT calibrated to "standards." That doesn't make it right or wrong, IMHO. But once you bring up "standards" - - EVERYBODY is wrong unless they adhere to that standard - - however that "standard" is interpreted.


Enjoy your ForMovie Theater.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Whether that specific brand is still selling in the USA or not is irrelevant; the picture shows there are differences, despite your opinion.
> 
> I’m not trying to pick a fight, I like you, but you are not speaking from experience - only from speculation and conjecture when you keep saying that all lenticular surfaces are the same.
> They are not and that is a fact.
> 
> In the dark, the differences are far less significant in regards to black level and brightness, but texture and speckle differences still persist and impact picture quality.


I see zero texture or speckle problems with my WEMAX screen. Edge to edge - - no imperfections that I can visually see. And I'm a real stickler for a razor sharp picture. And installation is key - - making sure you receive a screen with material that doesn't have any defects and is properly put together. 

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, Brian, as I'm a big supporter (customer) and fan of your company, projectorscreen.com. Let me qualify it better for you. There is not that much difference in the basic design and purpose of a UST ALR lenticular screen. At night, there are fewer differences in UST ALR screens. If the screen material is of poor quality or not finished right - - sure, you can experience texture or speckle problems (although I believe the speckle problems are more a function of the projector than anything else.)

Again, my main point - - no fear of buying the GT1 and having to purchase an expensive screen to enjoy this projector right now. There are many lower cost screens without texture or speckle problems. You can always upgrade in the future.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> Enjoy your ForMovie Theater.


Absolutely. And it's wonderful to just dial in your picture and enjoy content without having to think about an HD Fury Vertex2 or any other product, hardware of software, to enjoy the GT1 straight out of the box. I mean, isn't that the whole point to begin with?


----------



## luisalbertokid

The million dollar question: how on earth do you accommodate a center channel speaker with a UST projector? 😬😬😬


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I see zero texture or speckle problems with my WEMAX screen….
> ….If the screen material is of poor quality or not finished right - - sure, you can experience texture or speckle problems (although I believe the speckle problems are more a function of the projector than anything else.)


I never said Wemax has that, I am stating that not all lenticular screens are the same and some do have texture, more speckle or both. You can clearly see both speckle and texture in the composite image of the various surfaces on the ones on the right hand side. It’s the same projector hitting all the surfaces at the same time.

Im sure you are happy with your screen; I’m not trying to take that away from you or tell you that you are wrong for liking it/being happy.

I’m not here saying one brand is better than the other, nor am I trying to change your mind (I’ve given up on that); my continual corrections to this misinformation are for all of the other readers of this forum.



Ricoflashback said:


> There is not that much difference in the basic design and purpose of a UST ALR lenticular screen.


The basic lenticular structure is similar by virtue of them having ridges, but there are different grades of wavy/sharpness as well as different layers stacked on top to have different image properties (alr, contrast, etc)

An opinion based on fact and experience is far more valuable to the people reading these threads than one based on pure speculation.

This conversation belongs in a different sub so I’ll end it here… until I need correct misinformation about screens again.


----------



## ProjectionHead

luisalbertokid said:


> The million dollar question: how on earth do you accommodate a center channel speaker with a UST projector? 😬😬😬


Depending on the offset of the projector, you can often fit the center channel above & behind the ust and below the screen.
Not see easy with my Def Tech CS9060, but that’s bigger than the Formovie itself; much easier with a less-deep center.


----------



## Ricoflashback

luisalbertokid said:


> The million dollar question: how on earth do you accommodate a center channel speaker with a UST projector? 😬😬😬


Something I've searched long and hard on for a year or so. In the U.S. - - and possibly where you are, I see two stands that would accommodate a large center speaker and other components with your UST on top of the stand. Now - - this requires a stand height of 21" with both of these solutions. And, not optimal for those folks who do not like their screen that high.






Synergy Model 248 - Salamander Designs







www.salamanderdesigns.com










82


AVAILABLE TO SHIP 12-27-22 DESCRIPTION: 82 inch contemporary rustic TV stand for flat screen and audio video installations.Features: American walnut veneer case with a natural finish and 4 solid cherry wood slatted sliding doors that conceal 4 equipment compartments, 2 storage drawers with ¾...




www.furnitech.com





If you want something lower (which will really lower your center channel) - you'll probably have to have it custom made. Otherwise, a smaller soundbar or center speaker attached to the wall or better yet - - a larger center speaker with an in wall design. I know of no other cabinet that will work from my research.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> I never said Wemax has that, I am stating that not all lenticular screens are the same and some do have texture, more speckle or both. You can clearly see both speckle and texture in the composite image of the various surfaces on the ones on the right hand side. It’s the same projector hitting all the surfaces at the same time.
> 
> Im sure you are happy with your screen; I’m not trying to take that away from you or tell you that you are wrong for liking it/being happy.
> 
> I’m not here saying one brand is better than the other, nor am I trying to change your mind (I’ve given up on that); my continual corrections to this misinformation are for all of the other readers of this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> The basic lenticular structure is similar by virtue of them having ridges, but there are different grades of wavy/sharpness as well as different layers stacked on top to have different image properties (alr, contrast, etc)
> 
> An opinion based on fact and experience is far more valuable to the people reading these threads than one based on pure speculation.
> 
> This conversation belongs in a different sub so I’ll end it here… until I need correct misinformation about screens again.


I'll make one last statement and leave it as it is. I am not providing misinformation. Everything I've said is straight on. You can harp about different grades, wavy/sharpness as well as different layers stacked on top to have different image properties. You can talk about *non-existent* texture or speckle problems with lower priced screens like the WEMAX I have and the XY Pet Crystal screen. And many others. To say that you cannot obtain a quality UST ALR screen for a much lower price is pure opinion and not fact. And that is far more valuable to folks who don't have to be Buffaloed into buying a more expensive screen.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> …….. I mean, isn't that the whole point to begin with?


Everyone’s point is different. To some the point is to recreate the theater experience in their home, and to replicate the studio’s and Director’s intent on what it should look like and how it should be presented to the viewer so the emotions and impact are felt as they were intended to, based on the visual and audible creative intent. 

If you were an artist who created what you think is a masterpiece that is supposed to tell a certain story and emote a certain feeling and response, would you get upset if someone presented it with clearly inaccurate properties, even when the parameters were given to them in advance in order to replicate it as close as possible?


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> I'll make one last statement and leave it as it is. I am not providing misinformation. Everything I've said is straight on. You can harp about different grades, wavy/sharpness as well as different layers stacked on top to have different image properties. You can talk about *non-existent* texture or speckle problems with lower priced screens like the WEMAX I have and the XY Pet Crystal screen. And many others. To say that you cannot obtain a quality UST ALR screen for a much lower price is pure opinion and not fact. And that is far more valuable to folks who don't have to be Buffaloed into buying a more expensive screen.


In the higher end of anything there’s snake oil and there’s true added quality. It’s up to the buyer to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

You can also find a quality bargain in the normal or lower ends of the spectrum. Which these ForMovie Theaters prove, along with brands like Hyundai and Kia, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t higher performing and better quality products above those, or even worse ones.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> In the higher end of anything there’s snake oil and there’s true added quality. It’s up to the buyer to separate the wheat from the chaff.
> 
> You can also find a quality bargain in the normal or lower ends of the spectrum. Which these ForMovie Theaters prove, along with brands like Hyundai and Kia, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t higher performing and better quality products above those, or even worse ones.


Off topic but the Kia is one of the best bang for buck and finest automobile manufacturers in the world today. 5 year/60K mile basic coverage with 10 year/100K powertrain warranty. Kia's new electric EV6 has the equivalent with a 10yr/100K mile battery warranty. I'd be very happy to find a Kia like UST ALR screen.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> Depending on the offset of the projector, you can often fit the center channel above & behind the ust and below the screen.


 Front? 🤔


----------



## luisalbertokid

ProjectionHead said:


> Depending on the offset of the projector, you can often fit the center channel above & behind the ust and below the screen.
> Not see easy with my Def Tech CS9060, but that’s bigger than the Formovie itself; much easier with a less-deep center.


Thanks! My center channel is big too, Tannoy Eyris Center. I would probably have to place it too close to the wall, which would not be very good...


----------



## Ricoflashback

luisalbertokid said:


> Thanks! My center channel is big too, Tannoy Eyris Center. I would probably have to place it too close to the wall, which would not be very good...


Gee, that's little compared to my beastly Paradigm CC-690 - 10" × 37.25" × 16.5" (H 25.4cm × W 94.6cm × D 41.9cm). Just kidding. The Synergy 248, stock, will accommodate that center by lowering the adjustable middle shelf. I've talked with the owner of Furnitech and he would modify the center shelf by lowering it and getting rid of the storage containers which I don't need. The reason I like the Furnitech model is that it's already assembled and you can move the center, vented slats away when you're watching the GT1 and then close them up to hide your center channel when not watching your projector. Very sleek.

Ideally - I'd like my center higher but you can't have everything. You could put the center channel on a stand, in front of the PJ but that would look wonky to me. My center is angled up to begin with. Good luck with your search.


----------



## Fox&304

luisalbertokid said:


> The million dollar question: how on earth do you accommodate a center channel speaker with a UST projector? 😬😬😬


Mine is already placed in the wall and unfortunately the projector will end a bit in front of it …


----------



## JimBob1971

How are people finding MEMC? For me in the UK, even on the lowest level it introduces high SOE for streaming content. When watching sport the low setting gives lots of micro stutters and sometimes partial/full screen judder and sparkling. Maybe it is different for 24p content but at the moment I have MEMC off for everything.


----------



## Sonny Red

JimBob1971 said:


> How are people finding MEMC? For me in the UK, even on the lowest level it introduces high SOE for streaming content. When watching sport the low setting gives lots of micro stutters and sometimes partial/full screen judder and sparkling. Maybe it is different for 24p content but at the moment I have MEMC off for everything.


Concerning myself I found the MEMC quite good. I have a Sony OLED 83A90J also and I always have the motion flow on and I was afraid of the MEMC and to my surprise it quite good in comparaison. Not as good but fairly good to me.


----------



## DesertDog

luisalbertokid said:


> The million dollar question: how on earth do you accommodate a center channel speaker with a UST projector? 😬😬😬


I built a new box for my center channel. I'm using a floor rising screen and the bottom 15" boarder is AT so I built a box that stands behind it where the speakers are lined up with border. It's worked out great so far.


----------



## Fox&304

JimBob1971 said:


> How are people finding MEMC? For me in the UK, even on the lowest level it introduces high SOE for streaming content. When watching sport the low setting gives lots of micro stutters and sometimes partial/full screen judder and sparkling. Maybe it is different for 24p content but at the moment I have MEMC off for everything.


I use it on medium most of the time. 
I know, ain't good to use motion interpolation, Tom Cruise & James Cameron said it was basically satan, but heh, I quite like not having migraine while watching some content. And I think the effect has improved a bit since the age of "Soap opera effect". It makes for a much more pleasant viewing experience, especially when tired, and on 2m50 screen size.


----------



## ProjectionHead

3sprit said:


> Front? 🤔


Lol, I consider the “front” the side with the speakers as that is the side meant to be seen, just like with a screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> In the higher end of anything there’s snake oil and there’s true added quality. It’s up to the buyer to separate the wheat from the chaff.
> 
> You can also find a quality bargain in the normal or lower ends of the spectrum. Which these ForMovie Theaters prove, along with brands like Hyundai and Kia, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t higher performing and better quality products above those, or even worse ones.


You don’t even need to stretch this to a car analogy; stick with screens.
Even though the underlying technology of angular reflective ALR works on the same principle for standard throw screens, it doesn’t mean that they are all the same and there are very clearly differences between Firehawk, Phantom HALR, Slate 1.2 and the discontinued 0.8, Black Diamond, Cinegrey 3D, Cinegrey 5D, etc.
Experience with one does not make one an expert in them all nor qualify their opinion that they are all the same.
It’s not about brand or price, it’s about the fact that there is a difference, regardless of how much someone wants to believe that there isn’t.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Off topic but the Kia is one of the best bang for buck and finest automobile manufacturers in the world today. 5 year/60K mile basic coverage with 10 year/100K powertrain warranty. Kia's new electric EV6 has the equivalent with a 10yr/100K mile battery warranty. *I'd be very happy to find a Kia like UST ALR screen.*


You have, it’s Spectra Projection. Image quality, black levels and ALR rivaling / equal to screens that are much more expensive and quantifiable better black levels & ALR to less expensive options as shown in pictures many times.

BTW-I think the Teluride looks great and is highly rated in many places


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> You have, it’s Spectra Projection. Image quality, black levels and ALR rivaling / equal to screens that are much more expensive and quantifiable better black levels & ALR to less expensive options as shown in pictures many times.
> 
> BTW-I think the Teluride looks great and is highly rated in many places


Hey, I’m not adverse to upgrading my screen when the time comes. I’ll even look at the more expensive new offering from Stewart Filmscreen with their new bezel that’s supposed to minimize or get rid of the faint, white light shadow from a UST projector.

But my central point is the same. While their are quantifiable differences between more expensive screens (and better bang for buck within those screen options) the central principle of lenticular screens is the same. And at night, as you mentioned, those differences become less apparent. And - it’s up to the buyer on how much he or she wants to pay for that extra ounce of perceived performance. Personally, I don‘t want to sacrifice brightness for a lower black floor. I’d like to see some advancements in UST screen technology. I hope we’re all not lenticulared out.


----------



## Nazgul

Can anyone speak to the support on the Formovie? Like is the company actively reading feedback and updating the projector? To me the gold standard for that is something like Valve is doing with the Steam Deck. I'm just slightly concerned reading the wonky stuff going on with the projector and people having to do all this troubleshooting and work arounds (when they can). Then you see stuff like them literally advertising on their website that it supports HDR 10+ but it clearly doesn't. :-/


----------



## Notrial

Continuing the screen-type stuff...

I've just received two samples (EU) from Vividstorm and cheaper HiLux.
Although they are both ALR (CLR) screens, the difference is very obvious, even without pointing a laser at them. Check the photos below, the first one viewed from the bottom (projector side) and the second one from the top. Left is HiLux and right is Vividstorm.
Also, the material thickness varies, like a lot...Vivid is much thinner, not sure if it's a good or bad thing (for a floor riser for example).


----------



## ProjectionHead

Notrial said:


> Continuing the screen-type stuff...
> 
> I've just received two samples (EU) from Vividstorm and cheaper HiLux.
> Although they are both ALR (CLR) screens, the difference is very obvious, even without pointing a laser at them. Check the photos below, the first one viewed from the bottom (projector side) and the second one from the top. Left is HiLux and right is Vividstorm.
> Also, the material thickness varies, like a lot...Vivid is much thinner, not sure if it's a good or bad thing (for a floor riser for example).
> 
> View attachment 3334322
> 
> View attachment 3334323


The Vividstorm is thinner because it has to be able to open/close repeatedly. It's not a bad thing per se, but necessary for how their screen operates. It looks like it does a much better job of ALR than the other one based on picture # 2.


----------



## Notrial

ProjectionHead said:


> The Vividstorm is thinner because it has to be able to open/close repeatedly. It's not a bad thing per se, but necessary for how their screen operates. It looks like it does a much better job of ALR than the other one based on picture # 2.


It makes sense regarding the thickness and I agree regarding the quality, it is much more ALR-ish .
That said, do you have any experience with the EU Vividstorm team? I know the company is probably not the same as its US counterpart, as it exists only for a couple of years. 
It's not an easy decision to shell out 5K € to a brand new webshop (for a bundle with Formovie included).


----------



## ProjectionHead

Notrial said:


> It makes sense regarding the thickness and I agree regarding the quality, it is much more ALR-ish .
> That said, do you have any experience with the EU Vividstorm team? I know the company is probably not the same as its US counterpart, as it exists only for a couple of years.
> It's not an easy decision to shell out 5K € to a brand new webshop (for a bundle with Formovie included).


I don't believe they have a EU team, I think it is just a reseller site (hence why they have other brands of screens lie HiLux - which I've never even heard of). Feel free to DM me as we can assist you in the EU for both items as well.


----------



## Sonny Red

Notrial said:


> It makes sense regarding the thickness and I agree regarding the quality, it is much more ALR-ish .
> That said, do you have any experience with the EU Vividstorm team? I know the company is probably not the same as its US counterpart, as it exists only for a couple of years.
> It's not an easy decision to shell out 5K € to a brand new webshop (for a bundle with Formovie included).


I feel obliged to share my experience with vividstorm.eu.

I placed an order in the beginning of august on a 120 inches tensionned floor screen for my Formovie Theater.

There was and there is still a banner on their website stating : « All sizes S Pro Electric Tensionned Floor Screens in stock »

I received the screen and when opening it I realized it was not the reference I ordered. They sent me the acoustic transparent one which I do not want because I don’t want to see during the day my white wall behind the screen through the perforations.

So I insisted to return it. But they did everything to discourage me and insisted that there was no need to change it and he confessed that they usually do this because they do not have all the reference in stock… I wanted the reference I ordered !!

So their banner is B.S

Have to waste on day so that DHL pick up the screen. And it was a pleasure ta repack the screen which has been completely opened.

Once they received it they sent me the second screen. My wife was at home on the delivery day. I ask her to send me a picture and on the label I could read « acoustic transparent » and worse « long focus ».

So they sent me the wrong screen again. Still acoustic transparent (perforated) and not for UST but long throw. Great !!!!!

So again I had to lost one day at home for DHL to pick up then they sent me the third one. This time he checked the reference before it was sent.

It took me about one month to get the correct screen and the third one is full of horizontal creases. You don’t see them when the projector is on and if you are not too close but for the price (2200€) I think this is not normal as the first screen I received did not have this defect.

But after 3 screens I am fed up wasting my time.

Maybe I was a lot unlucky but come on sending the wrong screen twice. One time ok but the second time you check to be 100% sure. I can’t imagine the shipping costs for all this.

So that was my wonderful experience with vividstorm.eu.

I should have ordered my screen on elitescreens.eu !!!


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> Lol, I consider the “front” the side with the speakers as that is the side meant to be seen, just like with a screen.


If you don't use the projector speakers, a center channel can be placed in front…


----------



## patels922

3sprit said:


> Front? 🤔











This is how i have mine setup at the moment ....simple 2x4 under center channel butted up against the wall


----------



## Ricoflashback

patels922 said:


> View attachment 3334374
> 
> This is how i have mine setup at the moment ....simple 2x4 under center channel butted up against the wall


You must not have kids or pets. If you do - - they are incredibly trained.


----------



## luisalbertokid

Has anyone ever tried to mount a UST projector on the ceiling? I guess you must have a pretty high ceiling, right?


----------



## bleuiko

Ricoflashback said:


> You must not have kids or pets. If you do - - they are incredibly trained.


I have my setup similar to this and I just got my UST set up. My child has stepped on my projector multiple times and there is peanut butter all over the center speaker + grill. I am in a lot of pain.


----------



## luisalbertokid

I've searched for the Formovie manual on line but didn't find it. I know by the ProjectorCentral's calculator that for a 120" screen the unit must be placed at 0,64 meters distance, but does anyone know how much BELOW the screen it should be?


----------



## Sonny Red

luisalbertokid said:


> I've searched for the Formovie manual on line but didn't find it. I know by the ProjectorCentral's calculator that for a 120" screen the unit must be placed at 0,64 meters distance, but does anyone know how much BELOW the screen it should be?


----------



## Nazgul

Anyone have any thoughts/comments on the below snippet from a review on www.projectorscreen.com? I too will have a ~150 inch screen whenever I receive my Formovie Theater (hoping sooner than later) and slightly concerned about the focus issue which I see crop up now and again in various posts.

"_On focus adjustment using the remote, the focus ring on T1 or Theater doesn't go quite far enough to either edge as it could or should. So, even with the left arrow maxed out, focus, especially on the top right & left corners remain kinda soft. This is more noticeable in screens larger than 100", like mine at 145". Focus does improve on its own after the unit has been powered on for about 30 minutes, but if you want perfect focus, the only way is to open the unit & manually push the focus ring (then leave it be, and not use the remote to focus)._"


----------



## Brajesh

That was me. I've had 3 Theater units & a T1 unit, and focus has been slightly (but noticeably) different on each. Keep your fingers crossed you get one with better focus. Yes, focus gets better after PJ warms up, about 20-30 mins after being turned in. No matter what though, you won't get perfect focus on the top left/right corners, especially top-left. The only way to get it close to perfect is opening up the unit & manually pushing the focus ring further than what remote presses can do. I myself have not done this because with actual movie/TV viewing, focus looks good enough (vs. looking at the focus pattern).


----------



## luisalbertokid

Sonny Red said:


>


Thanks mate 👍🏻


----------



## DesertDog

Nazgul said:


> Anyone have any thoughts/comments on the below snippet from a review on www.projectorscreen.com? I too will have a ~150 inch screen whenever I receive my Formovie Theater (hoping sooner than later) and slightly concerned about the focus issue which I see crop up now and again in various posts.
> 
> "_On focus adjustment using the remote, the focus ring on T1 or Theater doesn't go quite far enough to either edge as it could or should. So, even with the left arrow maxed out, focus, especially on the top right & left corners remain kinda soft. This is more noticeable in screens larger than 100", like mine at 145". Focus does improve on its own after the unit has been powered on for about 30 minutes, but if you want perfect focus, the only way is to open the unit & manually push the focus ring (then leave it be, and not use the remote to focus)._"


Mine's coming in pretty sharp now with the test pattern. I actually checked it last night before I started watching a show and surprised since it hadn't looked as good the last time I tried to set it. It had been on for about 15 minutes when I checked. Warm up time matters with the GT1. I swear the colors and brightness look better too after a bit of warm up. I haven't figured out though if they actually improve or if it's my eyes adjusting to the lighting. 

On tip on getting the focus good. Square up and position the GT1 properly to the screen as much as possible. I've found that the close to exact that I have it positioned the easier it is for me to dial in the focus. It can be tedious but worth the time.


----------



## RickMes

Anyone noticed HDR overly saturated when playing HDR games on PS4? Shield Pro seems fine in all color spaces (SDR, HDR and Dolby) within the expected limitations and playing Blu-ray SDR in PS4 also seems okay. However, games in HDR do seem too saturated. Any advice?


----------



## Nazgul

Brajesh said:


> That was me. I've had 3 Theater units & a T1 unit, and focus has been slightly (but noticeably) different on each. Keep your fingers crossed you get one with better focus. Yes, focus gets better after PJ warms up, about 20-30 mins after being turned in. No matter what though, you won't get perfect focus on the top left/right corners, especially top-left. The only way to get it close to perfect is opening up the unit & manually pushing the focus ring further than what remote presses can do. I myself have not done this because with actual movie/TV viewing, focus looks good enough (vs. looking at the focus pattern).


Oof, so you bought and returned at least 2 Theater until you got one that was decent? If so that doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. lol Maybe they are improving the quality of these that's why it's taking so long to get one?


----------



## DARK FURY 88

After few weeks, tests and calibration i found out that best solution is to use Nvidia Shield in streaming. Put all in 4.2.2. 12 bit 2020 and forget all. I used the 11 point White balance to make this calibration and have a correct gamma. Second step i used test pattern for CMS saturation 2020 and made calibration.
As i see only 4 k movies /series with by 2020 content, i found the perfect solution.
Formovie Is very good in tone mapping, but It deserve a lot of light and image becomes dull. So i prefer to go in sdr and use full colour and full bit instead of the hdr . 
I made 2 setup in HDMI 1 i put all correct values for hdr /full HD and Dolby vision. The image Is very cinematografic.
On HDMI 2 i put the second profile 4k sdr 422 2020. Image becomes Life. Ok much more TV effect, but not like a cheap LCD, more like an organic OLED and most impressive Is the full and complete use of the colours.
I would suggest to all to test , give a try to this solution.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> Oof, so you bought and returned at least 2 Theater until you got one that was decent? If so that doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. lol Maybe they are improving the quality of these that's why it's taking so long to get one?


Brajesh’s first two units were from the first production run. We have yet to receive the next wave in, but Formovie was made aware of all reported issues and says they have increased quality control on this next run (shipping out from China next week!) so I would expect that there are less issues overall. 🤞
Even if any issues, when you purchase from the right place here in the USA, you get a replacement if defective and don’t need to deal with sending back to China for repair, etc, like Brajesh experienced.


----------



## Brajesh

This is why in my review I stress how important it is to buy from ProjectorScreen.com, probably even over Formovie's own online store or anywhere else. I also think I got unlucky with my first two units, with dust particles somewhere inside getting dislodged during shipment to me and moving into the lens assembly. Hope Formovie has addressed sealing the lens assembly area better with this new batch. I'm sure they don't want to deal with returned units as much as we don't want to deal with having to 😅.

It has been all worth it as this projector is such a joy to use. The gorgeous PQ it throws makes any source video better, and DV just looks amazing.


----------



## Nazgul

Brajesh said:


> This is why in my review I stress how important it is to buy from ProjectorScreen.com, probably even over Formovie's own online store or anywhere else.


Yeah that's where I ordered from, price was right and seemed to have a good presence in the community. On the plus side the wait gives me time to setup my projector area. lol

That's good that they are improving QC, I was perplexed why anyone would want to go through so many returned units, seemed counter intuitive. Are they taking the same approach to software updates as well? Scanning through the pages it seems like they have some hdmi and various other issues that have cropped up that may be more software related than hardware.


----------



## g3m

kraine said:


> DOLBY VISION Bright Mode +
> Strong adaptive luma control +
> Soft local contrast control


Is it just me or changing "Adaptive Luma Control" values under Dolby Vision Bright mode have no effect? Only changing "Local Contrast Control" have an effect. Is there a way to unlock it? It does work however in other modes (SDR and HDR10). Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

Nazgul said:


> Are they taking the same approach to software updates as well? Scanning through the pages it seems like they have some hdmi and various other issues that have cropped up that may be more software related than hardware.


They appear to be. @kraine mentioned there's a f/w due (out soon I hope) that addresses bugs, but he mentioned it improves colorimetry as well.

Hopeful we'll see the following fixes and improvements:

HDMI handshake. Quicker to lock onto signal between input, resolution and color space changes
HDR and DV still have some red push
HDR Dark needs work so it doesn't clip details, highlights
Lost Wi-Fi, requiring a reboot to get back


----------



## JonnyH12

Has anyone run into an issue where the following message pop up is blocking your ability to sync the remote. It is also therefore preventing you from resetting the projector.

“TV speakers are turned off in sound setting. Do you want to turn them on?”


----------



## Dave Harper

Nazgul said:


> Oof, so you bought and returned at least 2 Theater until you got one that was decent? If so that doesn't make me warm and fuzzy. lol Maybe they are improving the quality of these that's why it's taking so long to get one?





ProjectionHead said:


> Brajesh’s first two units were from the first production run. We have yet to receive the next wave in, but Formovie was made aware of all reported issues and says they have increased quality control on this next run (shipping out from China next week!) so I would expect that there are less issues overall.
> Even if any issues, when you purchase from the right place here in the USA, you get a replacement if defective and don’t need to deal with sending back to China for repair, etc, like Brajesh experienced.


Yes the last 4-5 I checked before shipment were actually the best I’ve seen so far!



Brajesh said:


> They appear to be. @kraine mentioned there's a f/w due (out soon I hope) that addresses bugs, but he mentioned it improves colorimetry as well.
> 
> Hopeful we'll see the following fixes and improvements:
> 
> HDMI handshake. Quicker to lock onto signal between input, resolution and color space changes
> HDR and DV still have some red push
> HDR Dark needs work so it doesn't clip details, highlights
> Lost Wi-Fi, requiring a reboot to get back


Add:

Use the correct incoming color gamut when in Color Gamut: AUTO Mode


----------



## Ricoflashback

Can you update the GT1 via a USB stick or do you have to do it internally? I get tired of having to reset my GT1 because it permanently loses my wireless connection and rebooting the modem doesn't do anything. I have to do a full reset back to factory settings to get wireless back. I'll probably wait to see how the new firmware update works before going through this PIA process again.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brajesh said:


> They appear to be. @kraine mentioned there's a f/w due (out soon I hope) that addresses bugs, but he mentioned it improves colorimetry as well.
> 
> Hopeful we'll see the following fixes and improvements:
> 
> HDMI handshake. Quicker to lock onto signal between input, resolution and color space changes
> HDR and DV still have some red push
> HDR Dark needs work so it doesn't clip details, highlights
> Lost Wi-Fi, requiring a reboot to get back


How about an assignable source "toggle" button? I never use the "YouTube" button on the remote as I do not use any internal apps.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DARK FURY 88 said:


> After few weeks, tests and calibration i found out that best solution is to use Nvidia Shield in streaming. Put all in 4.2.2. 12 bit 2020 and forget all. I used the 11 point White balance to make this calibration and have a correct gamma. Second step i used test pattern for CMS saturation 2020 and made calibration.
> As i see only 4 k movies /series with by 2020 content, i found the perfect solution.
> Formovie Is very good in tone mapping, but It deserve a lot of light and image becomes dull. So i prefer to go in sdr and use full colour and full bit instead of the hdr .
> I made 2 setup in HDMI 1 i put all correct values for hdr /full HD and Dolby vision. The image Is very cinematografic.
> On HDMI 2 i put the second profile 4k sdr 422 2020. Image becomes Life. Ok much more TV effect, but not like a cheap LCD, more like an organic OLED and most impressive Is the full and complete use of the colours.
> I would suggest to all to test , give a try to this solution.


I don't have a 4K Blu-ray player so as far as streaming goes, I just disable HDR and enable "match content color space between REC2020 and REC 709" and away I go. Great picture on cable and streaming content. I'm not sure if I'm getting the full color gamut or not (default is 10 bit REC 2020) compared to 4.2.2 12 bit 2020 but the colors are outstanding. I've tweaked the "User" setting to my liking and now I just concentrate on what I watch. Color gamut is in "Auto" mode. Switching it "On" washes out the colors.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> I don't have a 4K Blu-ray player so as far as streaming goes, *I just disable HDR and enable "match content color space between REC2020 and REC 709" and away I go. *Great picture on cable and streaming content. I'm not sure if I'm getting the full color gamut or not (default is 10 bit REC 2020) compared to 4.2.2 12 bit 2020 but the colors are outstanding. I've tweaked the "User" setting to my liking and now I just concentrate on what I watch. *Color gamut is in "Auto" mode. Switching it "On" washes out the colors.*


See, this is what’s getting me. What you posted is saying that you’re “matching Rec709” for the output of the Shield(?), then using AUTO Color Gamut in the GT1, which then stretches the Rec709 colors you’re sending out to BT2020. 

It’s not “washed out” in the sense you’re using it. It’s correct because you specifically told the Shield to send Rec709. So why not either turn off the match content color space so it sends that Rec709 in a BT2020 gamut container so you can leave Color Gamut on the GT1 to AUTO, or turn Color Gamut to ON so that the Rec709 you want to send from the Shield is rendered properly?

I guess if you like it that way, then that’s great. But try not to mislead people saying having it in the proper setting is “washing out” the colors, because it’s not. Just say you know it’s not how it’s supposed to be, but you prefer it that way, then everyone totally understands and newbies aren’t led down a path inadvertently only to have to go back and find out why their image is so over saturated.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> See, this is what’s getting me. What you posted is saying that you’re “matching Rec709” for the output of the Shield(?), then using AUTO Color Gamut in the GT1, which then stretches the Rec709 colors you’re sending out to BT2020.
> 
> It’s not “washed out” in the sense you’re using it. It’s correct because you specifically told the Shield to send Rec709. So why not either turn off the match content color space so it sends that Rec709 in a BT2020 gamut container so you can leave Color Gamut on the GT1 to AUTO, or turn Color Gamut to ON so that the Rec709 you want to send from the Shield is rendered properly?
> 
> I guess if you like it that way, then that’s great. But try not to mislead people saying having it in the proper setting is “washing out” the colors, because it’s not. Just say you know it’s not how it’s supposed to be, but you prefer it that way, then everyone totally understands and newbies aren’t led down a path inadvertently only to have to go back and find out why their image is so over saturated.


My error - - it washed out the colors on my cable signal when I switched it to "On" from "Auto." Don't get your knickers in a knot....unintentional error on my part.


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> My error - - it washed out the colors on my cable signal when I switched it to "On" from "Auto." Don't get your knickers in a knot....unintentional error on my part.


No worries, knickers definitely not knotted! ;-)


----------



## jonathan.henry84

JonnyH12 said:


> Has anyone run into an issue where the following message pop up is blocking your ability to sync the remote. It is also therefore preventing you from resetting the projector. “TV speakers are turned off in sound setting. Do you want to turn them on?”


 After a few hours wasted troubleshooting, I resolved this by using a USB mouse to close the pop up before syncing the remote.


----------



## Nazgul

Ricoflashback said:


> How about an assignable source "toggle" button? I never use the "YouTube" button on the remote as I do not use any internal apps.


There's an Android button mapper app (one I used is actually called Button Mapper) that lets you do this, I installed it on my Shield to disable I believe it was the Netflix button that was enormous and super easy to accidentally press. I'm sure you could map it to do whatever.


----------



## Self-Righteous

Something I posted elsewhere with no response, so hoping for a more benevolent attitude from kind hearted colleagues.
"Regarding UST projectors in general, is the distance between the stand on which the PJ sits and the bottom of the projected image (I think they call this relative height) the same across all models? This would be an important consideration for users who have a fixed screen and who might at some future time need to upgrade their projectors."


----------



## ProjectionHead

Self-Righteous said:


> Something I posted elsewhere with no response, so hoping for a more benevolent attitude from kind hearted colleagues.
> "Regarding UST projectors in general, is the distance between the stand on which the PJ sits and the bottom of the projected image (I think they call this relative height) the same across all models? This would be an important consideration for users who have a fixed screen and who might at some future time need to upgrade their projectors."


They are not the same across all UST. This is referred to as the offset. We create and post charts for the offset and throw distance for the various USTs in relation to multiple screen sizes to help advise for placement.


----------



## 3sprit

I don't have a Blu-ray player: in the various streaming services are there videos with patterns for calibration or to evaluate the quality of the images? 🤔


----------



## Dave Harper

3sprit said:


> I don't have a Blu-ray player: in the various streaming services are there videos with patterns for calibration or to evaluate the quality of the images?


Netflix I know has some. Just search for “Test Patterns”.


----------



## 3sprit

Thank you 😉


----------



## DesertDog

3sprit said:


> I don't have a Blu-ray player: in the various streaming services are there videos with patterns for calibration or to evaluate the quality of the images? 🤔


You can find test patterns on YouTube too. Just remember that you need to find SDR and HDR ones.


----------



## ba_crane

Anyone streaming 1883 on their GT1? I have an Epson 5040 that I like for most part but I’m steaming this show and it colors look quite dull.


----------



## JackB

Anyone considering the HDFury solution for LLDV might be interested in this thread:









Alternative Devices for Enabling Low Latency Dolby...


That's a challenge for someone else:D. I'm quite happy with DCI-P3, using it even with the Vertex2. EDIT: Disabling full DV would be nice, however. i have just placed an order on an older vertex 1 for a very good price, i'm i missing much compared to the vertex 2 ?




www.avsforum.com


----------



## jimchao

After doing some fine adjustment, I am posting these pictures to convince you guys it's performance of contrast and P3 Gamut. I am trying to adjust my shots as closed as what I saw.
























These scenes was took from the begining of ''Black Panther'', which I consider the most difficult to perform contrast for most of the projectors. Still, Formovie Theather is outstanding.








































































I had tested Epson EH IS-12000, compare to Formovie Theater, they have really similar black floor. Epson has really high brightness output which Theater is way behide. I still enjoy to watch Formovie Theater in dark room instaed of living room. However, I still complant it's blurry, for a 4K PJ I can't really accept it.


----------



## luisalbertokid

jimchao said:


> After doing some fine adjustment, I am posting these pictures to convince you guys it's performance of contrast and P3 Gamut. I am trying to adjust my shots as closed as what I saw.
> View attachment 3336296
> 
> View attachment 3336295
> 
> View attachment 3336297
> 
> These scenes was took from the begining of ''Black Panther'', which I consider the most difficult to perform contrast for most of the projectors. Still, Formovie Theather is outstanding.
> View attachment 3336304
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3336302
> 
> View attachment 3336306
> 
> View attachment 3336309
> 
> View attachment 3336308
> 
> View attachment 3336307
> 
> View attachment 3336315
> 
> View attachment 3336313
> 
> View attachment 3336314
> 
> I had test Epson EH IS-12000, compare to Formovie Theater, they have really similar black floor. Epson has really high brightness output which Theater is way behide. I still love to watch Formovie Theater in dark room instaed of living room.


Black levels on the Formovie are comparable to the Epson 12000? That's really something, considering Epson top projectors usually have very good black levels.


----------



## jimchao

luisalbertokid said:


> Black levels on the Formovie are comparable to the Epson 12000? That's really something, considering Epson top projectors usually have very good black levels.


I was comparing them in HDR mode instead standard SDR 709. Any projector's contrast preformance under both mode are quite different. I believe Epson 12000 has darker black levels in SDR mode (my tested result was 50000:1).


----------



## ba_crane

jimchao said:


> After doing some fine adjustment, I am posting these pictures to convince you guys it's performance of contrast and P3 Gamut. I am trying to adjust my shots as closed as what I saw.
> View attachment 3336296
> 
> View attachment 3336295
> 
> View attachment 3336297
> 
> These scenes was took from the begining of ''Black Panther'', which I consider the most difficult to perform contrast for most of the projectors. Still, Formovie Theather is outstanding.
> View attachment 3336304
> 
> View attachment 3336302
> 
> View attachment 3336306
> 
> View attachment 3336309
> 
> View attachment 3336308
> 
> View attachment 3336307
> 
> View attachment 3336315
> 
> View attachment 3336313
> 
> View attachment 3336314
> 
> I had tested Epson EH IS-12000, compare to Formovie Theater, they have really similar black floor. Epson has really high brightness output which Theater is way behide. I still enjoy to watch Formovie Theater in dark room instaed of living room. However, I still complant it's blurry, for a 4K PJ I can't really accept it.


Your pictures look great. So you like the contrast of the Formovie but you are not happy with its lack of sharpness? I thought many ppl have said they love how sharp dlp is. Could it be the use of the AT screen making it blurry?


----------



## badboris

patels922 said:


> View attachment 3334374
> 
> This is how i have mine setup at the moment ....simple 2x4 under center channel butted up against the wall


So here’s a little secret - you actually don’t need a center for narrow screening rooms, which most home theaters are. If you have nice L and R mains, just run the receiver in phantom.

This may sound like sacrilege, but it isn’t. You’re actually better off many time with phantom rather than a true center if it means that center placement is compromised by poor off axis response.


----------



## jimchao

ba_crane said:


> Your pictures look great. So you like the contrast of the Formovie but you are not happy with its lack of sharpness? I thought many ppl have said they love how sharp dlp is. Could it be the use of the AT screen making it blurry?


Not in UST over 100'' screen case, I have 135'' 1.0 acustical transparent screen. I am only happy when it projects under 100'' screen.
This is the foucs pattern in the mid of the screen, clarely see RGB are not aligned, also from the mid to upper right/left conners are out of focus which make it even worse.


----------



## GFDthatsME

I have a question..... I can get a Sony VPL-VZ1000ES (9676hrs on it/no warranty), 110 Screen Inovations ALR screen and a salamander matching stand for $3600+ $400 worth of expensives to go pick it up 2 1/2hrs away... Would everyone recommend going that route or buying the new Formovie Theatre and motorized ALR screen which would open in front of my 77 OLED? Just trying to get some opinions. The Sony is getting quite old being 2017.


----------



## Self-Righteous

ProjectionHead said:


> They are not the same across all UST. This is referred to as the offset. We create and post charts for the offset and throw distance for the various USTs in relation to multiple screen sizes to help advise for placement.


Thanks for info Dave


----------



## rjyap

GFDthatsME said:


> I have a question..... I can get a Sony VPL-VZ1000ES (9676hrs on it/no warranty), 110 Screen Inovations ALR screen and a salamander matching stand for $3600+ $400 worth of expensives to go pick it up 2 1/2hrs away... Would everyone recommend going that route or buying the new Formovie Theatre and motorized ALR screen which would open in front of my 77 OLED? Just trying to get some opinions. The Sony is getting quite old being 2017.


Left another 10,000 hours and no warranty. I would go for Formovie as I don't think it worth the risk. Plus if you read thru the Sony thread, there lot's of information on sxrd panel degradation where the contrast dropping due to panel burn in. Not sure if it happen with this model but if the panel is the same, I would measure the native contrast first before buying.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Self-Righteous said:


> Thanks for info Dave


I'm Brian!


----------



## Sonny Red

rjyap said:


> Left another 10,000 hours and no warranty. I would go for Formovie as I don't think it worth the risk. Plus if you read thru the Sony thread, there lot's of information on sxrd panel degradation where the contrast dropping due to panel burn in. Not sure if it happen with this model but if the panel is the same, I would measure the native contrast first before buying.


Initially I was waiting and hoping for a new UST from Sony. Last year it was still possible to get the VPL-VZ1000ES as new.

Even if it was possible today I would not have bought it because of the lack of Dolby Vision and I had enough to wait after Sony to release a new one so I bought a Formovie.

I do not regret my choice at all. The Formovie is a great UST and I have not turn on once my Sony OLED 83A90J in the evening since I have the Formovie Theater.

The VPL-VZ1000ES was a great UST but in 2022 it’s getting old, probably conceived in 2016.

2500 lumens vs 2800 lumens for the Formovie and no Dolby Vision for the VPL -VZ1000ES.

Pros for the Sony : very quiet (21 dB), very good blacks even better than the Formovie thanks to the SXRD panel, native 4K and unlike DLP it can handle 24p.

But the unit is quite used 10000 hours and you don’t know if you will have issues with the SXRD panels. Why does the guy sell it ?

The Sony is tempting but I would go for the Formovie in the end.


----------



## GFDthatsME

Thanks for the replies. The hrs definitely was a worry. I'm gonna hold off and buy a formovie. Thanks again


----------



## ramvignesh

HI,
Can you please share the link to the review comparing the T1 chinese and global version (theater)?
Thanks


----------



## Brajesh

Only comparison I've seen is the first post of this thread, and this video Nothing But Label shared. In my review several pages back, I shared a few thoughts... basically, the global version is worth the extra money, but if one already has a T1, it isn't worth upgrading.


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> We're two steps ahead of you on this. Dave will be posting one of these up full time in his place very soon


@Dave Harper, any update on your suggested settings sans an external processor (HDFury, MadVR)?


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> @Dave Harper, any update on your suggested settings sans an external processor (HDFury, MadVR)?


Unfortunately no. I was out on vacation a few weeks ago and when I got home realized I got COVID which took a long time to test negative, then I went into the office for a day and a half and had another medical emergency that took me to the ER and I’ve been recovering since at home! 

When I’m back, hopefully soon, Brian should be getting me that ForMovie.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Unfortunately no. I was out on vacation a few weeks ago and when I got home realized I got COVID which took a long time to test negative, then I went into the office for a day and a half and had another medical emergency that took me to the ER and I’ve been recovering since at home!
> 
> When I’m back, hopefully soon, Brian should be getting me that ForMovie.


Hope you're feeling better now. That sounds like a bad stretch for you. Although my recommendation would have been for you to go into work while testing positive. Brian can deal with a little covid if it gets us new settings.


----------



## Brajesh

Sorry to hear, that’s a lot to deal with. Hope you feel better.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jimchao said:


> I was comparing them in HDR mode instead standard SDR 709. Any projector's contrast preformance under both mode are quite different. I believe Epson 12000 has darker black levels in SDR mode (my tested result was 50000:1).


So compared to the Formovie GT1 - - what is that number? If it's only 4,000 to 1 for the GT1, that would appear to be a tremendous difference in favor of the Epson 12000.


----------



## spinforu

Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol


----------



## jimchao

Ricoflashback said:


> So compared to the Formovie GT1 - - what is that number? If it's only 4,000 to 1 for the GT1, that would appear to be a tremendous difference in favor of the Epson 12000.


IMO, the importment issue of contrast is black floor, if GT1 has hight brightness output but w/o good black floor, even the contrast measured high, the image would still look wash out. That's why JVC PJ always control it's brightness output to stay low it's black floor.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jimchao said:


> Not in UST over 100'' screen case, I have 135'' 1.0 acustical transparent screen. I am only happy when it projects under 100'' screen.
> This is the foucs pattern in the mid of the screen, clarely see RGB are not aligned, also from the mid to upper right/left conners are out of focus which make it even worse.
> View attachment 3336350


I have a 100” screen (non AT) and the picture is very sharp. I’d like to go with a 120” screen but would like to hear from other GT1 users who have those screen dimensions. Still a sharp enough picture at 120”?


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> Hope you're feeling better now. That sounds like a bad stretch for you. Although my recommendation would have been for you to go into work while testing positive. Brian can deal with a little covid if it gets us new settings.





Brajesh said:


> Sorry to hear, that’s a lot to deal with. Hope you feel better.


Thank you so much for your thoughts and prayers! I should be back in the game soon!


----------



## g3m

Ricoflashback said:


> I have a 100” screen (non AT) and the picture is very sharp. I’d like to go with a 120” screen but would like to hear from other GT1 users who have those screen dimensions. Still a sharp enough picture at 120”?


I have a 120" screen and I find it sharp enough. I guess it depends on the viewer. You can see a couple of pictures I posted here, it's on a 120" Vividstorm ALR screen. Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


----------



## Ricoflashback

g3m said:


> I have a 120" screen and I find it sharp enough. I guess it depends on the viewer. You can see a couple of pictures I posted here, it's on a 120" Vividstorm ALR screen. Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Much thanks! I'd be happy with that picture quality. I think that a flat, wall mounted screen could provide a tad better picture. A tighter screen surface and more selections on screen material, but those pics you provided look great to me.


----------



## RazB

Ricoflashback said:


> I have a 100” screen (non AT) and the picture is very sharp. I’d like to go with a 120” screen but would like to hear from other GT1 users who have those screen dimensions. Still a sharp enough picture at 120”?


I have a 135" fixed frame screen matte white 1.1 gain and in terms of sharpness the projector isn't too bad, but there is a room for improvement nevertheless. I can only compare it to some traditional long throw 4K DLP projectors (with the 0.47" DMD chip) which I saw and did appear sharper according to my memory.

With my GT1 the bottom of the frame is pretty sharp, the more you go up it gets somewhat softer. The top corners are actually the softer areas of the picture, in particular the top left (like other users have reported). The top right corner, while being a tad soft, is still considerably better than the left.

Uploaded a photo taken with my phone of the ISF UHD geometry test pattern.
The projector is aligned to the screen very closely with very slight keystone adjustments. Sharpness is turned all the way down and the source is a PC.

To summarize: I wish the projector could focus a bit better. Going "all the way to the left" on the focus screen just doesn't reach far enough. The top left corner is the most problematic area, but while watching content this really isn't as noticeable and I do enjoy the picture.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RazB said:


> I have a 135" fixed frame screen matte white 1.1 gain and in terms of sharpness the projector isn't too bad, but there is a room for improvement nevertheless. I can only compare it to some traditional long throw 4K DLP projectors (with the 0.47" DMD chip) which I saw and did appear sharper according to my memory.
> 
> With my GT1 the bottom of the frame is pretty sharp, the more you go up it gets somewhat softer. The top corners are actually the softer areas of the picture, in particular the top left (like other users have reported). The top right corner, while being a tad soft, is still considerably better than the left.
> 
> Uploaded a photo taken with my phone of the ISF UHD geometry test pattern.
> The projector is aligned to the screen very closely with very slight keystone adjustments. Sharpness is turned all the way down and the source is a PC.
> 
> To summarize: I wish the projector could focus a bit better. Going "all the way to the left" on the focus screen just doesn't reach far enough. The top left corner is the most problematic area, but while watching content this really isn't as noticeable and I do enjoy the picture.


Nice post and observations. Can you share some content pics? You probably have a bat cave or very little ambient light with your setup. And I'm curious as to the white matte screen and 1.1 gain - - which should provide a brighter picture - - one aspect that I'd like to improve on with my GT1. Still good black levels with that 1.1 screen? And yes, the top left corner seems a little less in focus than the rest of the screen. But I really don't notice it with content. 

My previous setup before we moved was an inexpensive, BenQ TK700STi. Regular throw but I'd call it a shorter throw PJ as it was the only one that really fit the room I was in. With upscaling of cable via my Denon X6700 and 4K via streaming with my Nvidia Shield Pro, the picture was sharper than the GT1. But nowhere near the colors and black level of the GT1.


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> I have a 135" fixed frame screen matte white 1.1 gain and in terms of sharpness the projector isn't too bad, but there is a room for improvement nevertheless. I can only compare it to some traditional long throw 4K DLP projectors (with the 0.47" DMD chip) which I saw and did appear sharper according to my memory.
> 
> With my GT1 the bottom of the frame is pretty sharp, the more you go up it gets somewhat softer. The top corners are actually the softer areas of the picture, in particular the top left (like other users have reported). The top right corner, while being a tad soft, is still considerably better than the left.
> 
> Uploaded a photo taken with my phone of the ISF UHD geometry test pattern.
> The projector is aligned to the screen very closely with very slight keystone adjustments. Sharpness is turned all the way down and the source is a PC.
> 
> To summarize: I wish the projector could focus a bit better. Going "all the way to the left" on the focus screen just doesn't reach far enough. The top left corner is the most problematic area, but while watching content this really isn't as noticeable and I do enjoy the picture.


I wonder if this common focus issue which seems to be worse as you go up the screen could be fixed by elevating the rear of the projector slightly. This would throw the image lower on the screen but that could be fixed by lowering the screen. If the focus mechanism focuses the same across the image then this could work. I seem to remember that the Bomaker Polaris, which had four adjustable legs, addressed not only the geometry of the image but attacked this focus problem also. Any owner tried this?

Edit: Also, try moving the projector out or in a little. This will affect focus in addition to raising or lowering the image. The object of course is to get the image focused evenly over all first and then aligned with the screen.


----------



## RazB

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice post and observations. Can you share some content pics? You probably have a bat cave or very little ambient light with your setup. And I'm curious as to the white matte screen and 1.1 gain - - which should provide a brighter picture - - one aspect that I'd like to improve on with my GT1. Still good black levels with that 1.1 screen? And yes, the top left corner seems a little less in focus than the rest of the screen. But I really don't notice it with content.
> 
> My previous setup before we moved was an inexpensive, BenQ TK700STi. Regular throw but I'd call it a shorter throw PJ as it was the only one that really fit the room I was in. With upscaling of cable via my Denon X6700 and 4K via streaming with my Nvidia Shield Pro, the picture was sharper than the GT1. But nowhere near the colors and black level of the GT1.


The last 4K DLP projector I happened to see (also on a 135" matte white screen) was the BenQ HT3550. Sharper for sure, but brightness was pretty low in comparison and definitely much worse with the WCG filter on for HDR (which cuts off 1/2 the luminance). Colours were pretty good, with the filter the expanded colour gamut was indeed very nice, but again, the picture suffers quite a hit with brightness while the filter is engaged and still it wasn't to the level of the GT1. Black levels were also considerably worse, as well as contrast.

I don't have a bat cave. This is a sort of a living room with an emphasize for HT. The setup isn't ready yet, I'm in the middle of a renovation for the whole place.
The walls, while they aren't white, are still on the lighter side, very light brown, like coffee with a good amount of milk in it. The wall behind the screen is a darker shade of it and that does help.
My ceiling is rather high at 4.1m / 13' 6" which helps as well with reflected light, but was painted with the lighter shade, so I wish I went for the darker shade, at least on the portion above the screen.
At the moment I cannot block light from outside completely, but soon enough I will be able to with long curtains to completely cover the two windows. At night it's not an issue though.
I would probably benefit from a CLR screen to avoid the reflection on the ceiling, but on the other hand I am very satisfied with the brightness I get from the projector on the matte white 1.1 gain screen and black levels are much better than I'm used to see from projectors.
Probably not comparable to JVCs or Sonys which are praised for their black levels and contrast, but those are at a completely different price tag and the GT1 is a good step forward for DLP.
Might still try to improve the reflection situation from the ceiling later on, but cannot afford spending so much on a CLR screen and would probably be limited to 120".

When taking a picture on the phone, even in manual ("pro") mode, the blacks seems deeper than they actually are (due to the limited dynamic range of the sensor) unless I overexpose. So in one way it is not a good indication, but on the other hand it wasn't the case with dimmer, lower contrast, projectors I've seen before and therefore a good indication as well.
I will try to take some better pictures later so I can share with you.


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> I wonder if this common focus issue which seems to be worse as you go up the screen could be fixed by elevating the rear of the projector slightly. This would throw the image lower on the screen but that could be fixed by lowering the screen. If the focus mechanism focuses the same across the image then this could work. I seem to remember that the Bomaker Polaris, which had four adjustable legs, addressed not only the geometry of the image but attacked this focus problem also. Any owner tried this?
> 
> Edit: Also, try moving the projector out or in a little. This will affect focus in addition to raising or lowering the image. The object of course is to get the image focused evenly over all first and then aligned with the screen.


The problem is that you want to cover the screen the best you can without keystone adjustments. If you were to tilt the projector with the back side of it (close to the screen) lower you'd also have to use more aggressive keystone correction which doesn't sound like the best idea. Actually I'm not so sure if it would still be enough to fix the focus issue anyhow.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RazB said:


> The last 4K DLP projector I happened to see (also on a 135" matte white screen) was the BenQ HT3550. Sharper for sure, but brightness was pretty low in comparison and definitely much worse with the WCG filter on for HDR (which cuts off 1/2 the luminance). Colours were pretty good, with the filter the expanded colour gamut was indeed very nice, but again, the picture suffers quite a hit with brightness while the filter is engaged and still it wasn't to the level of the GT1. Black levels were also considerably worse, as well as contrast.
> 
> I don't have a bat cave. This is a sort of a living room with an emphasize for HT. The setup isn't ready yet, I'm in the middle of a renovation for the whole place.
> The walls, while they aren't white, are still on the lighter side, very light brown, like coffee with a good amount of milk in it. The wall behind the screen is a darker shade of it and that does help.
> My ceiling is rather high at 4.1m / 13' 6" which helps as well with reflected light, but was painted with the lighter shade, so I wish I went for the darker shade, at least on the portion above the screen.
> At the moment I cannot block light from outside completely, but soon enough I will be able to with long curtains to completely cover the two windows. At night it's not an issue though.
> I would probably benefit from a CLR screen to avoid the reflection on the ceiling, but on the other hand I am very satisfied with the brightness I get from the projector on the matte white 1.1 gain screen and black levels are much better than I'm used to see from projectors.
> Probably not comparable to JVCs or Sonys which are praised for their black levels and contrast, but those are at a completely different price tag and the GT1 is a good step forward for DLP.
> Might still try to improve the reflection situation from the ceiling later on, but cannot afford spending so much on a CLR screen and would probably be limited to 120".
> 
> When taking a picture on the phone, even in manual ("pro") mode, the blacks seems deeper than they actually are (due to the limited dynamic range of the sensor) unless I overexpose. So in one way it is not a good indication, but on the other hand it wasn't the case with dimmer, lower contrast, projectors I've seen before and therefore a good indication as well.
> I will try to take some better pictures later so I can share with you.


I think the light reflection is a result of the steep angle of projection. I have an ALR screen and while I have no halos or reflections on the ceiliing, I do get a faint white band all around the screen. I believe the sawtooth makeup of the lenticular screen helps prevent ceiling reflections but I'm not sure. Stewart Filmscreen is working on a beveled design that doesn't cutoff the picture at the bottom while having a larger (2" or greater) velvet wrapped frame to help minimize reflections. I'm not sure how well that will work but it would be a nice option (albeit more expensive from Stewart Filmscreen) if it works. I know some posters have a dark wall or black velvet type material behind the screen that absorbs the light.

Who made your 1.1 matte screen? I would certainly like to have more brightness with my GT1. That would be the one area where I'd like improvement. And, as you, I will have the projector setup in our living room and it will not have dark walls. But when we move into a house later this year or next, it will have much better window treatments. At night, the GT1 is fantastic in a darkened room. If they could make a higher gain ALR screen, that would be great, but I'm not sure that's in the cards just yet.


----------



## RazB

Ricoflashback said:


> I think the light reflection is a result of the steep angle of projection. I have an ALR screen and while I have no halos or reflections on the ceiliing, I do get a faint white band all around the screen. I believe the sawtooth makeup of the lenticular screen helps prevent ceiling reflections but I'm not sure. Stewart Filmscreen is working on a beveled design that doesn't cutoff the picture at the bottom while having a larger (2" or greater) velvet wrapped frame to help minimize reflections. I'm not sure how well that will work but it would be a nice option (albeit more expensive from Stewart Filmscreen) if it works. I know some posters have a dark wall or black velvet type material behind the screen that absorbs the light.
> 
> Who made your 1.1 matte screen? I would certainly like to have more brightness with my GT1. That would be the one area where I'd like improvement. And, as you, I will have the projector setup in our living room and it will not have dark walls. But when we move into a house later this year or next, it will have much better window treatments. At night, the GT1 is fantastic in a darkened room. If they could make a higher gain ALR screen, that would be great, but I'm not sure that's in the cards just yet.


My screen is from Elite Screens, the Aeon with CineWhite 1.1 Gain.
I also have a faint band on the wall casted all around the screen. The darker colour of the wall behind the screen brings it down a bit, but it's there.
A wider frame with black velvet would probably absorb it.

The reflection on the ceiling is, like you said, a result of the steep angle of the beams from the projector hitting the screen and reflected from it at the same angle, reaching the ceiling. Maybe the 1.1 gain actually makes it worse, but if someone has a treated room with dark walls / black velvet I guess it becomes completely insignificant. In my case as I said, the high ceiling helps with that. If it was lower the effect would be worse.

When I first set the screen and projector, I had the screen supported by a couple of boxes underneath and leaning back on the wall. This tilted position resulted the reflection hitting the wall above the screen (and under the ceiling). The darker paint on that wall did make a difference, absorbing some of the reflection. So now that I have the screen actually installed on the wall standing straight the reflection hits the ceiling and makes it worse. 

So I did take some pictures as I promised, but I don't feel like they are a good representation of what I see with my own eyes. Hopefully they are still useful.
All content is 4k / UHD. Either SDR or HDR tone mapped with MadVR (software on a PC) to SDR.

I would like to try out Dolby Vision, but I still don't have a player which supports it.
Didn't experiment much with HDR, but I feel like I trust MadVR better with the mapping from the few comparisons I was trying to make.
With SDR content everything is easier, you don't need to worry iand have doubts if you are seeing the picture properly or not. It just works. Pretty happy I can stream 4K SDR from Netflix App on the PC (just by disabling HDR on Windows).


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> The problem is that you want to cover the screen the best you can without keystone adjustments. If you were to tilt the projector with the back side of it (close to the screen) lower you'd also have to use more aggressive keystone correction which doesn't sound like the best idea. Actually I'm not so sure if it would still be enough to fix the focus issue anyhow.


You are right. I forgot that the lens engineering design was for the steep angle of projection. However, it would be a easily executed test. I wonder just how much physical movement of the chassis rear, up or down, would have a visible change to the focus.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RazB said:


> My screen is from Elite Screens, the Aeon with CineWhite 1.1 Gain.
> I also have a faint band on the wall casted all around the screen. The darker colour of the wall behind the screen brings it down a bit, but it's there.
> A wider frame with black velvet would probably absorb it.
> 
> The reflection on the ceiling is, like you said, a result of the steep angle of the beams from the projector hitting the screen and reflected from it at the same angle, reaching the ceiling. Maybe the 1.1 gain actually makes it worse, but if someone has a treated room with dark walls / black velvet I guess it becomes completely insignificant. In my case as I said, the high ceiling helps with that. If it was lower the effect would be worse.
> 
> When I first set the screen and projector, I had the screen supported by a couple of boxes underneath and leaning back on the wall. This tilted position resulted the reflection hitting the wall above the screen (and under the ceiling). The darker paint on that wall did make a difference, absorbing some of the reflection. So now that I have the screen actually installed on the wall standing straight the reflection hits the ceiling and makes it worse.
> 
> So I did take some pictures as I promised, but I don't feel like they are a good representation of what I see with my own eyes. Hopefully they are still useful.
> All content is 4k / UHD. Either SDR or HDR tone mapped with MadVR (software on a PC) to SDR.
> 
> I would like to try out Dolby Vision, but I still don't have a player which supports it.
> Didn't experiment much with HDR, but I feel like I trust MadVR better with the mapping from the few comparisons I was trying to make.
> With SDR content everything is easier, you don't need to worry iand have doubts if you are seeing the picture properly or not. It just works. Pretty happy I can stream 4K SDR from Netflix App on the PC (just by disabling HDR on Windows).


Those are some incredibly sharp pics on a 135” screen. And the black floor looks great. The poster who had issues with picture sharpness has an AT screen. I believe you need to be at least 12 feet from the screen to not notice the perforations. But I still believe that any AT screen will compromise visual acuity. I digress. 

I don‘t have MadVR via HTPC but I stream only SDR with my Nvidia Shield Pro. And you can still stream DV with the GT1 but as I said, I’ve turned HDR (and DV) off as an option with my Shield and I’m quite happy with the set it and forget it SDR picture. But you’ve confirmed what I thought about a matte white screen with a 1.0 or 1.1 gain - namely, a brighter picture compared to an ALR screen. Now - I might get a ceiling reflection with a white matte screen so I’ll have to consider that. But a wider, black velvet wrapped frame should absorb some of the faint shadow around the screen. You never know unless you try it. Most of us don’t have the resources to try multiple solutions. Maybe some other posters can share their non ALR experiences.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Those are some incredibly sharp pics on a 135” screen. And the black floor looks great. The poster who had issues with picture sharpness has an AT screen. I believe you need to be at least 12 feet from the screen to not notice the perforations. But I still believe that any AT screen will compromise visual acuity. I digress.
> 
> I don‘t have MadVR via HTPC but I stream only SDR with my Nvidia Shield Pro. And you can still stream DV with the GT1 but as I said, I’ve turned HDR (and DV) off as an option with my Shield and I’m quite happy with the set it and forget it SDR picture. But you’ve confirmed what I thought about a matte white screen with a 1.0 or 1.1 gain - namely, a brighter picture compared to an ALR screen. Now - I might get a ceiling reflection with a white matte screen so I’ll have to consider that. But a wider, black velvet wrapped frame should absorb some of the faint shadow around the screen. You never know unless you try it. Most of us don’t have the resources to try multiple solutions. Maybe some other posters can share their non ALR experiences.


Whats your plan after you are done with the 100" screen? Any replacement you've found? Trying to find a good priced 120"


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Whats your plan after you are done with the 100" screen? Any replacement you've found? Trying to find a good priced 120"


I’m looking at Stewart Filmscreen “WallScreen UST” with a Studio Tek 100 (white matte -1.0 gain) or Dark UST (lenticular 5.5 gain) depending on how much I can control the light. Brian at projectorscreen.com likes the Spectra screen but if I can, I’d like a brighter image than what ALR screens currently provide. The Spectra will be better priced. SilverTicket also has very good screens that have excellent prices. I had an electronic screen from them before that worked quite well.

The design of the WallScreen UST” is a larger, black velvet frame and beveled design to minimize reflections from the steep angle of UST projectors. We’re looking at a couple houses today and one has a separate room where I could have a theater setup again. My main goal is a brighter image as that’s the only aspect lacking, IMHO, with my GT1. Of course, at night, the picture is the best but for darker scenes and a little more shadow detail (especially for shows like “The House of Dragons” and “See”) I believe a 1.0 gain, white screen in a more controlled light environment will provide the best picture. Of course, to really get there, a JVC RS1100 would be the ticket but I’d like to save that extra 6K and installation costs and keep my fantastic GT1 with its fabulous colors and ease of setup.


----------



## RazB

Ricoflashback said:


> I’m looking at Stewart Filmscreen “WallScreen UST” with a Studio Tek 100 (white matte -1.0 gain) or Dark UST (lenticular 5.5 gain) depending on how much I can control the light. Brian at projectorscreen.com likes the Spectra screen but if I can, I’d like a brighter image than what ALR screens currently provide. The Spectra will be better priced. SilverTicket also has very good screens that have excellent prices. I had an electronic screen from them before that worked quite well.
> 
> The design of the WallScreen UST” is a larger, black velvet frame and beveled design to minimize reflections from the steep angle of UST projectors. We’re looking at a couple houses today and one has a separate room where I could have a theater setup again. My main goal is a brighter image as that’s the only aspect lacking, IMHO, with my GT1. Of course, at night, the picture is the best but for darker scenes and a little more shadow detail (especially for shows like “The House of Dragons” and “See”) I believe a 1.0 gain, white screen in a more controlled light environment will provide the best picture. Of course, to really get there, a JVC RS1100 would be the ticket but I’d like to save that extra 6K and installation costs and keep my fantastic GT1 with its fabulous colors and ease of setup.


If you are going to have a dedicated room soon enough, you will surely be fine with a matte white screen and you will get that brighter image you are after. Reflected light will be absorbed well enough in a treated room and of course you won't have a problem to handle the ceiling situation.
Maybe that future place will allow you to go even larger with your screen  

The black levels will be somewhat lifted still on a white matte screen in comparison to what you are used to with your current one, but I still find it decent enough and not such a bad compromise to gain that extra brightness which does make a difference.

In my case with the band of light around the screen on the wall and ceiling reflection problem I came up with an idea to build another "frame" to go behind the screen, all around it, to work as an extended black velvet background. Then build a shelf a bit higher above all that, covered with velvet, to absorb and block the up firing reflection.
Unfortunately I will have to leave soon for a couple of months, so it will be awhile before I can get back at it. Then I will also handle the sound system.


----------



## Nazgul

I have a UST question that's not specific to the T1 but since that's what I've ordered I'll put it here. I see a lot of people going with large screens and therefore needing to put their T1 basically on the floor or close to it. For those who do this do you ever run into issues of things falling into the projector like dirt, dust, pet hair, etc? Non-UST shoot straight out versus UST which go diagonally up, which I'd think would result in cleaning issues.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Nazgul said:


> I have a UST question that's not specific to the T1 but since that's what I've ordered I'll put it here. I see a lot of people going with large screens and therefore needing to put their T1 basically on the floor or close to it. For those who do this do you ever run into issues of things falling into the projector like dirt, dust, pet hair, etc? Non-UST shoot straight out versus UST which go diagonally up, which I'd think would result in cleaning issues.


Pet hair? Dust? Oh yeah. In fact, I clean the lens cover more often and try to keep the dust off the UST PJ in general. I also bought a cheap, acrylic sheet to cover the lens area when not in use.


----------



## Nazgul

Ricoflashback said:


> Pet hair? Dust? Oh yeah. In fact, I clean the lens cover more often and try to keep the dust off the UST PJ in general. I also bought a cheap, acrylic sheet to cover the lens area when not in use.


lol Delightful, this is pretty much what I figured. So have you like cleaned it then while watching a movie or marathon tv-show binge had to stop midway and clean it again?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Nazgul said:


> lol Delightful, this is pretty much what I figured. So have you like cleaned it then while watching a movie or marathon tv-show binge had to stop midway and clean it again?


No - I only clean it before I turn it on. At least a couple times a week. I brush it and then use the cleaner on the other side. Brian at projectorscreen.com suggested this pen and it has worked well -









Amazon.com : Nikon 7072 Lens Pen Cleaning System, Black : Camera Cleaning Kits : Electronics


Amazon.com : Nikon 7072 Lens Pen Cleaning System, Black : Camera Cleaning Kits : Electronics



www.amazon.com





I also have the cleaning cloth that Formovie sent with my purchase. No getting around it - a UST projector gets more dust and hair than a regular throw PJ that is mounted on the ceiling. But no big deal as long as you continue preventive maintenance.


----------



## luisalbertokid

Ricoflashback said:


> Pet hair? Dust? Oh yeah. In fact, I clean the lens cover more often and try to keep the dust off the UST PJ in general. I also bought a cheap, acrylic sheet to cover the lens area when not in use.
> 
> View attachment 3337244


The acrylic cover is a really good idea. It should be standard for these projectors btw, since it wouldn't be expensive for manufacturers.


----------



## Dave Harper

BenQ has the best solution on the V7050i, with its sliding door that covers the lens area when powered off.


----------



## leo0111127

RazB said:


> I have a 135" fixed frame screen matte white 1.1 gain and in terms of sharpness the projector isn't too bad, but there is a room for improvement nevertheless. I can only compare it to some traditional long throw 4K DLP projectors (with the 0.47" DMD chip) which I saw and did appear sharper according to my memory.
> 
> With my GT1 the bottom of the frame is pretty sharp, the more you go up it gets somewhat softer. The top corners are actually the softer areas of the picture, in particular the top left (like other users have reported). The top right corner, while being a tad soft, is still considerably better than the left.
> 
> Uploaded a photo taken with my phone of the ISF UHD geometry test pattern.
> The projector is aligned to the screen very closely with very slight keystone adjustments. Sharpness is turned all the way down and the source is a PC.
> 
> To summarize: I wish the projector could focus a bit better. Going "all the way to the left" on the focus screen just doesn't reach far enough. The top left corner is the most problematic area, but while watching content this really isn't as noticeable and I do enjoy the picture.





RazB said:


> I have a 135" fixed frame screen matte white 1.1 gain and in terms of sharpness the projector isn't too bad, but there is a room for improvement nevertheless. I can only compare it to some traditional long throw 4K DLP projectors (with the 0.47" DMD chip) which I saw and did appear sharper according to my memory.
> 
> With my GT1 the bottom of the frame is pretty sharp, the more you go up it gets somewhat softer. The top corners are actually the softer areas of the picture, in particular the top left (like other users have reported). The top right corner, while being a tad soft, is still considerably better than the left.
> 
> Uploaded a photo taken with my phone of the ISF UHD geometry test pattern.
> The projector is aligned to the screen very closely with very slight keystone adjustments. Sharpness is turned all the way down and the source is a PC.
> 
> To summarize: I wish the projector could focus a bit better. Going "all the way to the left" on the focus screen just doesn't reach far enough. The top left corner is the most problematic area, but while watching content this really isn't as noticeable and I do enjoy the picture.


Formovie Home Theatre's Lens is small


luisalbertokid said:


> Black levels on the Formovie are comparable to the Epson 12000? That's really something, considering Epson top projectors usually have very good black levels.


Can not agree. 
Different technology, the EPSON used the dynamic IRIS tech to change lens aperture dynamtically to get the deep black level.
Formovie theater used the fixed high F-stop 3.2 number Lens with smaller lens aperture to sacrifice the bigger size sharpness(over 100 inch) to get the deep black level.


----------



## luisalbertokid

leo0111127 said:


> Formovie Home Theatre's Lens is small
> 
> 
> Can not agree.
> Different technology, the EPSON used the dynamic IRIS tech to change lens aperture dynamtically to get the deep black level.
> Formovie theater used the fixed high F-stop 3.2 number Lens with smaller lens aperture to sacrifice the bigger size sharpness(over 100 inch) to get the deep black level.


I thought the Epson LS11000/12000 did not use a physical iris, only laser dimming and other software solutions to achieve good blacks/contrast. And the Formovie is not recommended for screens bigger than 100"?


----------



## Nazgul

luisalbertokid said:


> And the Formovie is not recommended for screens bigger than 100"?


The posts on here do seem to indicate while on paper the T1 can go up to 150" the higher you go the worse the sharpness becomes. I think the hope is that the newer batch have made improvements with this, not aware of anyone on here getting one recently so that remains to be seen. I'm crossing my fingers though!


----------



## RazB

Nazgul said:


> The posts on here do seem to indicate while on paper the T1 can go up to 150" the higher you go the worse the sharpness becomes. I think the hope is that the newer batch have made improvements with this, not aware of anyone on here getting one recently so that remains to be seen. I'm crossing my fingers though!


I received my unit last week. Delivered from China. No idea if it's a new batch or not.
On my 135" screen, as I described before, it is pretty sharp at the bottom, as you go up and out to the top corners it softens somewhat. Both top corners are soft, but it is more pronounced with the left one.
There is a picture I took of a focus pattern on the previous page as well as some pictures of actual content.
The softer corners are not as noticeable while watching content, but pretty obvious with graphics/text. So I'd still wish better sharpness / focusing.


----------



## Nazgul

RazB said:


> On my 135" screen, as I described before, it is pretty sharp at the bottom, as you go up and out to the top corners it softens somewhat.
> 
> The softer corners are not as noticeable while watching content, but pretty obvious with graphics/text. So I'd still wish better sharpness / focusing.


Oof, bummer. This does seem like an unfortunate design issue with the T1 that I was hoping they'd figure out how to remediate. Brajesh I believe physically opened (at least one of) his T1's and manually focused it better. Obviously that is far from an ideal fix. 

I'm actually wondering now if this is why more UST's don't "support" larger than say 120" screen sizes, or if this focus issue on larger screens is unique to the T1?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> BenQ has the best solution on the V7050i, with its sliding door that covers the lens area when powered off.


Hands down, this should be standard with all USTs IMHO. I wonder if its patented.....


----------



## luisalbertokid

ProjectionHead said:


> I wonder if its patented.....


I see a great business opportunity 😉


----------



## 3sprit




----------



## MrGrimble

3sprit said:


> View attachment 3337695


It's a good start but It will still collect some dust if not cleaned regularly. 
I have a similar acrylic cover for my turntable and dust keeps accumulating. 
As the great Jeff Goldblum once said...Dust finds a way 😉


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> BenQ has the best solution on the V7050i, with its sliding door that covers the lens area when powered off.


I like the design but here’s hoping no mechanical failures. Same for the Vividstorm screen or an electronic screen.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Incredible colors with my GT1 from plain old cable TV…


----------



## clipghost

Since when did we start calling it the GT1?


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Since when did we start calling it the GT1?


Sorry if it offends you. Just easier for me to type then the “Global International version of the Formovie or Fengmi T1.”


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Sorry if it offends you. Just easier for me to type then the “Global International version of the Formovie or Fengmi T1.”


You could just call it by its actual name, the “Theater”. It’s only a couple extra letters to type than “GT1” and less confusing to those not part of the secret acronym club.
That being said, I do actually like the GT1 model number name that y’all came up with, moreso than it’s actual “Theater” name but calling it something else just may confuse people.


----------



## ProjectionHead

luisalbertokid said:


> I see a great business opportunity 😉


I’ve looked into something like this previously and it was also suggested to me by another member of this forum afterwards (without them knowing).
Great minds think alike…


----------



## earlosaurus

nickasim said:


> Thanks. So the only way to do so is to also mount the projector on the ceiling. Everything upside down


 Unless you want to take apart the unit, and reverse the direction the screen is rolled up.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> You could just call it by its actual name, the “Theater”. It’s only a couple extra letters to type than “GT1” and less confusing to those not part of the secret acronym club.
> That being said, I do actually like the GT1 model number name that y’all came up with, moreso than it’s actual “Theater” name but calling it something else just may confuse people.


“Her name was Magill and she called herself Lil
But everyone knew her as Nancy.”


----------



## BH_Pirkle

Can any gamers comment about the input lag? How noticeable is 41ms? Would it make online gaming difficult/unplayable?


----------



## Nazgul

BH_Pirkle said:


> Can any gamers comment about the input lag? How noticeable is 41ms? Would it make online gaming difficult/unplayable?


FYI in the Projectorscreen.com review they mention they had it tracked at 34ms, curious which one is the correct one.

At either of those speeds I think you'd avoid fast paced FPS games, but Racing, RPG, RTS, TBS would be fine. Still waiting on mine which I'll 100% game on so will definitely put gaming performance in my review. I don't play twitchy FPS so I think I'll be fine.

As a heads-up pretty much every review I've read on 30ms+ projectors said they feel slightly sluggish on twitch games like Devil May Cry, CoD, Destiny, etc.


----------



## mirzank

I’m traveling right now so can’t check but any news on the new update that was supposed to be released? 
I went from not having any wifi issues for weeks to suddenly my wifi not connecting when I wake the projector so needs a restart every time. Hoping they fixed this.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> I’m traveling right now so can’t check but any news on the new update that was supposed to be released?
> I went from not having any wifi issues for weeks to suddenly my wifi not connecting when I wake the projector so needs a restart every time. Hoping they fixed this.


My WiFi doesn't work either. I have to do a total reset to get it back, which is a PITA. I asked on the forum if you can update via USB but I didn't hear any answers. So I assume not. 

It would be nice to know IF and WHEN there is a firmware update - - what does that update fix or enhance. Maybe Brian or HarperVision can help with that.


----------



## mirzank

Ricoflashback said:


> It would be nice to know IF and WHEN there is a firmware update - - what does that update fix or enhance. Maybe Brian or HarperVision can help with that.


You have to reset your system every time ?? Damn that sucks. I just go into the options and tell the projector to restart. And every time I get my wifi back. Clearly it’s not just a single problem then.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> You could just call it by its actual name, the “Theater”. It’s only a couple extra letters to type than “GT1” and less confusing to those not part of the secret acronym club.
> That being said, I do actually like the GT1 model number name that y’all came up with, moreso than it’s actual “Theater” name but calling it something else just may confuse people.


I'm sticking with GT1 around here. "Theater" is more confusing around here since it can be ambiguous as to the PJ, your home theater, etc.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> You have to reset your system every time ?? Damn that sucks. I just go into the options and tell the projector to restart. And every time I get my wifi back. Clearly it’s not just a single problem then.


Hmm - I never tried that. So with a restart - - your settings are saved? Then, wifi comes back? That would be great. I'll try it as long as it doesn't blow away my settings. Much thanks.


----------



## Brajesh

I lose wi-fi often, and a reboot is the only way to get it back. Annoying; hope the impending f/w addresses this.


----------



## Notrial

Ricoflashback said:


> My WiFi doesn't work either. I have to do a total reset to get it back, which is a PITA. I asked on the forum if you can update via USB but I didn't hear any answers. So I assume not.
> 
> It would be nice to know IF and WHEN there is a firmware update - - what does that update fix or enhance. Maybe Brian or HarperVision can help with that.


Is this wifi only problem or same thing via LAN?


----------



## mirzank

Ricoflashback said:


> Hmm - I never tried that. So with a restart - - your settings are saved? Then, wifi comes back? That would be great. I'll try it as long as it doesn't blow away my settings. Much thanks.


You said you have to do a “total reset” which to me implies your android/pj setting a get erased. 
Just doing a restart from the menu doesn’t change or erase any settings it just does a hard reboot I guess.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Notrial said:


> Is this wifi only problem or same thing via LAN?


You should never lose a hardwire LAN connection.


----------



## Brajesh

Same thing. Wired and wi-fi both don't work fairly often, with only a restart (in my case) resolving the problem.


----------



## RazB

Brajesh said:


> Same thing. Wired and wi-fi both don't work fairly often, with only a restart (in my case) resolving the problem.


Have mine for about a week and a half now. I use it with a wired connection and didn't face any network related problems.
I hope I won't face this later on, but for everyone's sake I hope it will be addressed in the next fw update.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> You have to reset your system every time ?? Damn that sucks. I just go into the options and tell the projector to restart. And every time I get my wifi back. Clearly it’s not just a single problem then.


Much thanks! It worked. I’ll probably have to do it again but this helps a lot.


----------



## 3sprit

The “11 point white balance correction” is a unique value (11x3) for all HDMI inputs and for all "picture mode" or should it be entered 21 times? 🤔🤷‍♂️

Is there a way, at the push of a button, to know the resolution, the frame rate and if the input signal is SDR or HDR? 🙂


----------



## kraine

All image parameters are saved in the projector according to the detected source and the type of signal sent, so the possibilities are indeed multiplied.


----------



## 3sprit

I understood this but the "11 point white balance correction" is a value that is entered only once and then is used by all sources regardless of SDR, HDR, DV?

Which parameters are unique and are calibrated and set only once and which can be modified and customized individually for each single input (HDMI 1-2-3) and for each "image mode" (User, Standard, Movie, etc ...)?


----------



## kraine

None is unique.

The correction of the color temperature 11 points does not help much, the simple RGB adjustment is precise enough to intervene on the gray scale and reduce the deltaE gap well below 3. On the other hand and there it is the experience which speaks it is necessary to make it for each projector, I do not know how Fengmi proceeded but there is not a single similar model on this part.


----------



## 3sprit

How is the uniformity of white? Is the screen "white" or multicolored (noticeable blue on the sides)?


----------



## rjyap

kraine said:


> None is unique.
> 
> The correction of the color temperature 11 points does not help much, the simple RGB adjustment is precise enough to intervene on the gray scale and reduce the deltaE gap well below 3. On the other hand and there it is the experience which speaks it is necessary to make it for each projector, I do not know how Fengmi proceeded but there is not a single similar model on this part.


I would prefer 11 point greyscale calibration as could use the multiple points to dial in the perfect gamma curve.


----------



## kraine

No needs with the Formovie (latest firmware) slights improvements on Brightness and contrast are enough for an ideal Gamma curve.


----------



## MillerTyme

Just ordered one of these to replace an "old" epson ls100, pretty excited.


----------



## Brajesh

@kraine, is this with the preset movie mode? No adjustments needed? If this is the case, it'd make having a good, accurate picture simple for non tinkerers.


----------



## kraine

It's not that simple even though the level of color accuracy out of the box has been improved with the latest update.
But in SDR for example, the use of the film mode with the configuration of the color space on "active" already allows an image closer to the reference values rec.709.
But whether in SDR or HDR it is necessary to adjust the color temperature and the CMS and if for the CMS we can find close values from one projector to another (SDR and HDR), this is unfortunately not the case with the gray scale. Each projector is different and often with large differences. It is for this reason and with the experience gained with the Formovies that I have calibrated that I can make this observation and that I have not published my post calibration values.

Here is an example of color temperature settings with the last 3 Formovie Theater that I calibrated:

Red gain : 6
Green gain : - 4
Blue gain : - 28

Red gain : 19
Green gain : 3
Blue Gain: - 37


Red Gain: 0
Green Gain: 0
Blue Gain: - 38


----------



## g3m

These are the settings I've been using for almost 2 weeks now with my ATV4K with forced LLDV (HDFury Arcana) on my Vividstorm ALR screen (~0.6 gain). I'm pretty happy with the picture (Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV+, Crave, YouTube). SDR, HDR10 and DV content looks great! Note that I'm using the projector in a light controlled environment (but not a bat cave) and mostly watch at night.

These are non calibrated settings (I don't have the equipment or knowledge), but using trial and error, I find these give me the best contrast and colors while minimizing the red push on skin tones (in most situations). I prefer these settings with LLDV compared to the current Dolby Vision Bright implementation since the contrast and blacks are a lot better.

*ATV4K *
_Settings to force DV/LLDV and fix the frame rate to 60hz to remove HDMI handshake delay on different contents (Formovie theater can't do native 24hz)_

Dolby Vision 4K 60hz
Match Dynamic Range : Disabled
Match Frame Rate : Disabled

*HDFury Arcana*

HDR : Auto
LLDV>HDR : On, Primaries BT2020, Max Luminance 4000 (DV Data block)

*Foremovie Theater*
_ You only have to configure one picture mode when forcing LLDV : HDR10.
Settings not mentioned are defaults. I don't adjust any values in the color tuner since these are non calibrated settings._

Picture Mode : User (HDR10)
Brightness : 55 (I recommend you use a pluge patterns on Youtube to adjust)
Sharpness : 5
Gamma : Bright (adjusting to bright was the trick to minimize red push on skins tones)
Color Temperature : Warm
DNR, MPEG NR, Max Vivid, De-counter, Flesh tone off
Adaptative Luma Control : Strong
Local Contrast Level : Middle
MEMC : off (adjust to taste)
HDMI RGB range, Color Space auto
Brightness mode : viewing


----------



## Brajesh

Good stuff, thanks both.


----------



## RickMes

Does anyone know anything about this screens: Leinwandbau.info - DIY projection screen building home and home cinema fans ?


----------



## luisalbertokid

RickMes said:


> Does anyone know anything about this screens: Leinwandbau.info - DIY projection screen building home and home cinema fans ?


"... reasonable high quality ultra short throw (UST) CLR frame screens". Is there such a thing as _reasonable high quality_? 🧐


----------



## Ricoflashback

Internet connection dropped again. A “Restart” reestablishes it but definitely a major bug with this projector. That’s okay - I never use the internal apps and I’ll wait for any firmware update experience before doing another restart. I did check for any updates and nothing, yet. Maybe Kraine or Europe receives updates faster than the U.S.


----------



## BH_Pirkle

Does this bug happen while it's running?? Or only during boot-up? Hopefully the next batch of units don't have these issues, I'm set to receive mine in the next few weeks.


----------



## mirzank

g3m said:


> *ATV4K *
> _Settings to force DV/LLDV and fix the frame rate to 60hz to remove HDMI handshake delay on different contents (Formovie theater can't do native 24hz)_
> 
> Dolby Vision 4K 60hz
> Match Dynamic Range : Disabled
> Match Frame Rate : Disabled


How do you force lldv on appletv?


----------



## Ricoflashback

BH_Pirkle said:


> Does this bug happen while it's running?? Or only during boot-up? Hopefully the next batch of units don't have these issues, I'm set to receive mine in the next few weeks.


Unless you use internal apps (which I'd recommend not doing) - it doesn't make that much difference outside of updates. I get a far better picture with my Nvidia Shield Pro streamer and if you use the Apple or Roku streamer - - you'll find the same experience, IMHO.


----------



## DesertDog

g3m said:


> *ATV4K *
> _Settings to force DV/LLDV and fix the frame rate to 60hz to remove HDMI handshake delay on different contents (Formovie theater can't do native 24hz)_
> 
> Dolby Vision 4K 60hz
> Match Dynamic Range : Disabled
> Match Frame Rate : Disabled


WIth the ATV settings, are you getting a washed out picture for the ATV UI? I have mind set to 4K SDR with Match Dynamic on due to it. I'm wondering if you're either not experiencing it or found a way around it.


----------



## 3sprit

Where can I find the link with the settings recommended by the various users of this thread?


----------



## RickMes

luisalbertokid said:


> "... reasonable high quality ultra short throw (UST) CLR frame screens". Is there such a thing as _reasonable high quality_? 🧐


Ahah! Did you read that on their website? What a silly comment on a product. I just decided to pass on these...


----------



## RickMes

[[EDITED with photos and measures - maybe half a centimeter smaller would fit tighter

For anyone, interested, I just bought a custom made dust cover for my Formovie Theater from ROTRi and it came out really good. Perfect fit. I will post pictures tomorrow.

(I had previously bought their covers for a monitor and a printer and I really like their quality).


----------



## g3m

mirzank said:


> How do you force lldv on appletv?


If you have an HDFury device with LLDV support, you enable Dolby Vision in your ATV4K menu and then disable "Match Dynamic Range" in the same menu. It tells your ATV4K to output any content (SDR, HDR10, DV) in LLDV. I find it convenient to only have one set of settings and the ATV4K does a pretty good job, to my taste, outputting DV and non-DV content in LLDV.


----------



## g3m

DesertDog said:


> WIth the ATV settings, are you getting a washed out picture for the ATV UI? I have mind set to 4K SDR with Match Dynamic on due to it. I'm wondering if you're either not experiencing it or found a way around it.


This is a screenshot of my ATV4K menu in Dolby Vision (using LLDV) with my settings posted previously. I don't find it washed out but I guess it depends on your point of view. If I switch to SDR, the colors will be a bit more saturated in the menu, but it's not a dramatic difference that would stop me from forcing LLDV.


----------



## g3m

3sprit said:


> Where can I find the link with the settings recommended by the various users of this thread?


There is a guide maintained by @Brajesh that you can find here (also at the end of the first post of the thread) : Fengmi Formovie Theater Settings & Reference Guide

Otherwise I would recommend to use the forum search feature and limit the scope to this thread and seek for settings. Some people have experimented with variations of these settings and posted their observations.


----------



## DesertDog

g3m said:


> This is a screenshot of my ATV4K menu in Dolby Vision (using LLDV) with my settings posted previously. I don't find it washed out but I guess it depends on your point of view. If I switch to SDR, the colors will be a bit more saturated in the menu, but it's not a dramatic difference that would stop me from forcing LLDV.
> 
> View attachment 3338527


Thanks, that looks a lot better than mine. I'll have to check where we differ with what you posted. I'm basically using Dave's Harpervision settings for the GT1 one right now with some variances based on test patterns.


----------



## stargtsi

About to pull the trigger on this projector as my first. Holding out to hear about the Epson ls800


----------



## clipghost

stargtsi said:


> About to pull the trigger on this projector as my first. Holding out to hear about the Epson ls800


When does that come out?


----------



## stargtsi

clipghost said:


> When does that come out?


I read end of this month for Europe so everyone was expecting US beginning of October


----------



## Notrial

RickMes said:


> For anyone, interested, I just bought a custom made dust cover for my Formovie Theater from https://rotri.de/ and it came out really good. Perfect fit. I will post pictures tomorrow.
> 
> (I had previously bought their covers for a monitor and a printer and I really like their quality).


Nice! please include your exact dimensions since you got the fitting done properly.


----------



## leo0111127

luisalbertokid said:


> I thought the Epson LS11000/12000 did not use a physical iris, only laser dimming and other software solutions to achieve good blacks/contrast. And the Formovie is not recommended for screens bigger than 100"?


Sharpness and Black level are seesaw in optic design w/o extra DB(dynamic black) feature or dynamic IRS compensation, you can not get good shapness performance in big size screen over 100 inch besides the best black level from Formovie Home Theatre as it prefered the black level and sacrifice the shapness in big size screen.
JVC, Sony top tier products used the small F-stop number lens with large lens aperture to achieve good sharpness and with extra black level compensation to get the perfect balance.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> It's not that simple even though the level of color accuracy out of the box has been improved with the latest update.
> But in SDR for example, the use of the film mode with the configuration of the color space on "active" already allows an image closer to the reference values rec.709.
> But whether in SDR or HDR it is necessary to adjust the color temperature and the CMS and if for the CMS we can find close values from one projector to another (SDR and HDR), this is unfortunately not the case with the gray scale. Each projector is different and often with large differences. It is for this reason and with the experience gained with the Formovies that I have calibrated that I can make this observation and that I have not published my post calibration values.
> 
> Here is an example of color temperature settings with the last 3 Formovie Theater that I calibrated:
> 
> Red gain : 6
> Green gain : - 4
> Blue gain : - 28
> 
> Red gain : 19
> Green gain : 3
> Blue Gain: - 37
> 
> 
> Red Gain: 0
> Green Gain: 0
> Blue Gain: - 38


Would you at least share some of your cms settings for us too see as well? Cannot get cyan or blue in line in this projector. Cyans come across a dark green, very ugly green and really noticeable.
Do you find the same experience with the firmovies you’re calibrating?


----------



## kraine

Blue is good after calibration (SDR and HDR) but you're right cyan is more problematic :


----------



## RickMes

Notrial said:


> Nice! please include your exact dimensions since you got the fitting done properly.


Just edited my post with photos and dimensions. Maybe half a centimeter tighter would fit tighter)


----------



## 3sprit

RickMes said:


> For anyone, interested, I just bought a custom made dust cover for my Formovie Theater from ROTRi and it came out really good. Perfect fit. I will post pictures tomorrow.
> 
> (I had previously bought their covers for a monitor and a printer and I really like their quality).


Interesting.

Is it easy to put the cover on and off without "moving" the projector?

Are the measurements correct?


----------



## RickMes

3sprit said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Is it easy to put the cover on and off without "moving" the projector?
> 
> Are the measurements correct?


Yes, perfectly easy to put it and remove it. My measurements are about half a centimeter loose which I think it's best for not moving the projector. But maybe just a little tighter could also work.
I have some other covers from them which were not custom made (already available for the products) and I really like their products.


----------



## Notrial

RickMes said:


> Just edited my post with photos and dimensions. Maybe half a centimeter tighter would fit tighter)


5mm less? on all sides or?


----------



## RickMes

Notrial said:


> 5mm less? on all sides or?


I guess. But as it is, with my dimensions, may be easier to put it on and off without messing the projector position. For me, I would keep these dimensions but I though it should be worth mentioning. Sorry if I just confused people.


----------



## ProjectionHead

RickMes said:


> [[EDITED with photos and measures - maybe half a centimeter smaller would fit tighter
> 
> For anyone, interested, I just bought a custom made dust cover for my Formovie Theater from ROTRi and it came out really good. Perfect fit. I will post pictures tomorrow.
> 
> (I had previously bought their covers for a monitor and a printer and I really like their quality).
> 
> View attachment 3338585
> View attachment 3338586
> View attachment 3338587


Does it nudge the projector at all when putting on/taking off?


----------



## RickMes

RickMes said:


> Does anyone know anything about this screens: Leinwandbau.info - DIY projection screen building home and home cinema fans ?


What about this one: MIGRA Ultrathin CLR Screen, extremely flat, no build up necessary, Made in Germany.

Comments, please!


----------



## RickMes

ProjectionHead said:


> Does it nudge the projector at all when putting on/taking off?


With the dimensions that I used, not at all!


----------



## Ricoflashback

RickMes said:


> With the dimensions that I used, not at all!


It’s a nice looking cover. I’d make sure to let the projector cool down before wrapping it. I like my simple acrylic cover as it’s easy to place on top and take off without moving the projector at all. Heat is the enemy of all electronics.


----------



## RickMes

Ricoflashback said:


> It’s a nice looking cover. I’d make sure to let the projector cool down before wrapping it. I like my simple acrylic cover as it’s easy to place on top and take off without moving the projector at all. Heat is the enemy of all electronics.


Yes! I always let it cool down. The acrylic is nice for the lens but that does not solve any potencial dust from getting inside through he ventilation system. Actually I think using both is a nice combination.


----------



## mirzank

g3m said:


> If you have an HDFury device with LLDV support, you enable Dolby Vision in your ATV4K menu and then disable "Match Dynamic Range" in the same menu. It tells your ATV4K to output any content (SDR, HDR10, DV) in LLDV. I find it convenient to only have one set of settings and the ATV4K does a pretty good job, to my taste, outputting DV and non-DV content in LLDV.


Ah you need a hdfury device for it. I don’t have that.


----------



## Dave Harper

mirzank said:


> Ah you need a hdfury device for it. I don’t have that.


There’s an HDMI splitter that allows an LLDV EDID and customizing firmware from EZCoo for about $30 if you want to play cheaply. 

There’s a thread dedicated to it here:









Alternative Devices for Enabling Low Latency Dolby...


There is an existing thread discussing ways to enable Player-led Dolby Vision (aka Low Latency Dolby Vision, or LLDV) when the display does not have this capability. Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on... The thread is very long but the basic principle is: Add a "spoofer" that...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## g3m

DesertDog said:


> Thanks, that looks a lot better than mine. I'll have to check where we differ with what you posted. I'm basically using Dave's Harpervision settings for the GT1 one right now with some variances based on test patterns.


I've used these settings previously and the menu wasn't washed out when forcing LLDV. Maybe check to make sure you have HDMI RGB range and Color Space on auto in your HDR10 picture mode. HDMI EDID should be on 2.1 and ensure you have HDMI 4k Enhanced mode enabled in your AVR (if you use one).


----------



## RickMes

Guys, up till today my Dolby Vision and HDR10 were looking good enough out of the box with just some testing of different output signals on my shield and PS4 Pro and input settings for each hmdi/input to type.

However, after resetting settings for my PS4 input HDMI1 it seems that there was a reset for all inputs and Dolby Vision from shield seems more washed out now. Anyone verified something like this?


----------



## Sawdust_Mind

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on AVS.

I already apologize if this is not the right place for asking for help regarding setup/installation of the ForMovie Theatre.

I think the assembly of my unit is not fine as the "plastic foam" piece behind and around the border of the window appears misplaced.

I ask the retailer (NothingButLable - "Jenny") a picture of his personnal unit and it seems the "plastic foam" piece is well adjust on hers.

My unit's displaying in picture 1
Retailer's unit in picture 2

I'd be very grateful if some readers could help and/or post some pictures of their unit's window.

I already can warn against the retailer mentioned above as he is very unreliable and inconsistent (I'll post an extensive text about it later ; by the way, if someone can tell me where, on AVSForum, is the suitable place for this, i'd be grateful too)


----------



## Sonny Red

Sawdust_Mind said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is my first post on AVS.
> 
> I already apologize if this is not the right place for asking for help regarding setup/installation of the ForMovie Theatre.
> 
> I think the assembly of my unit is not fine as the "plastic foam" piece behind and around the border of the window appears misplaced.
> 
> I ask the retailer (NothingButLable - "Jenny") a picture of his personnal unit and it seems the "plastic foam" piece is well adjust on hers.
> 
> My unit's displaying in picture 1
> Retailer's unit in picture 2
> 
> I'd be very grateful if some readers could help and/or post some pictures of their unit's window.
> 
> I already can warn against the retailer mention above as he is very unreliable and inconsistent (I'll post an extensive text about it later ; by the way, if someone can tell me where, on AVSForum, is the suitable place for this, i'd be grateful too)
> 
> View attachment 3339028
> 
> 
> View attachment 3339029


I will post a picture of mine tonight


----------



## JereyWolf

Sawdust_Mind said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is my first post on AVS.
> 
> I already apologize if this is not the right place for asking for help regarding setup/installation of the ForMovie Theatre.
> 
> I think the assembly of my unit is not fine as the "plastic foam" piece behind and around the border of the window appears misplaced.
> 
> I ask the retailer (NothingButLable - "Jenny") a picture of his personnal unit and it seems the "plastic foam" piece is well adjust on hers.
> 
> My unit's displaying in picture 1
> Retailer's unit in picture 2
> 
> I'd be very grateful if some readers could help and/or post some pictures of their unit's window.
> 
> I already can warn against the retailer mentioned above as he is very unreliable and inconsistent (I'll post an extensive text about it later ; by the way, if someone can tell me where, on AVSForum, is the suitable place for this, i'd be grateful too)
> 
> View attachment 3339028
> 
> 
> View attachment 3339029


Mine is like this too, but it doesn't seem to effect the image.


----------



## Sawdust_Mind

Hi Jerey,

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, even though my english is not so good ! I'm a bit worried after frustrating exchanges with NBL and it's a relief to witness that your unit shows similar abnormality without presenting any image related issue. 

Regards,

Fred


----------



## Sonny Red

Sawdust_Mind said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is my first post on AVS.
> 
> I already apologize if this is not the right place for asking for help regarding setup/installation of the ForMovie Theatre.
> 
> I think the assembly of my unit is not fine as the "plastic foam" piece behind and around the border of the window appears misplaced.
> 
> I ask the retailer (NothingButLable - "Jenny") a picture of his personnal unit and it seems the "plastic foam" piece is well adjust on hers.
> 
> My unit's displaying in picture 1
> Retailer's unit in picture 2
> 
> I'd be very grateful if some readers could help and/or post some pictures of their unit's window.
> 
> I already can warn against the retailer mentioned above as he is very unreliable and inconsistent (I'll post an extensive text about it later ; by the way, if someone can tell me where, on AVSForum, is the suitable place for this, i'd be grateful too)
> 
> View attachment 3339028
> 
> 
> View attachment 3339029


Voici le mien :


----------



## Sawdust_Mind

Sonny Red said:


> Voici le mien :


Merci Sonny pour votre réponse. La pièce en mousse n'a pas l'air déposé à l'identique d'un appareil à l'autre. Cela me rassure, même si ce n'est peut être pas rassurant. J'ai aussi pas mal de poussière/tâche dans le bloc/ sur la vitre, qui ne semble pas affecter la qualité de projection. Dans le vôtre aussi ?

Fred


----------



## Sonny Red

Sawdust_Mind said:


> Merci Sonny pour votre réponse. La pièce en mousse n'a pas l'air déposé à l'identique d'un appareil à l'autre. Cela me rassure, même si ce n'est peut être pas rassurant. J'ai aussi pas mal de poussière/tâche dans le bloc/ sur la vitre, qui ne semble pas affecter la qualité de projection. Dans le vôtre aussi ?
> 
> Fred


I love this projector. I haven’t turn on my Sony OLED XR-83A90J since I have received the Formovie Theater !

No issue for me except the eARC issue but it comes from Android TV. Hope this will be corrected with a firmware update.


----------



## madmax777

hello everyone. my friend and I have the same problem. if you turn on the white background, there is a ripple from the lower left corner (as if waves are floating). the video is very poorly visible, but in real life it is very noticeable. tell me who has such a problem? is this normal? we have such a problem on two projectors!

if you tell me how to add a video, I will add


----------



## Dave Harper

madmax777 said:


> hello everyone. my friend and I have the same problem. if you turn on the white background, there is a ripple from the lower left corner (as if waves are floating). the video is very poorly visible, but in real life it is very noticeable. tell me who has such a problem? is this normal? we have such a problem on two projectors!
> 
> if you tell me how to add a video, I will add


That’s due to the heat coming from that side of the projector being exhausted from the fans there. If you deflect it further out with a piece of cardboard or something you’ll notice it go away.


----------



## madmax777

if I put up with this problem, is it bad for the projector (that it is heated from this side)? I have a barrier just on the left side.


----------



## DesertDog

madmax777 said:


> if I put up with this problem, is it bad for the projector (that it is heated from this side)? I have a barrier just on the left side.


That looks bad. You should have space on each side of the projector so that it can cool properly. If you look there's fans on each side that suck in air from the right and expel it on the left. Heat is the worse thing for electronics and will shorten the life of it is not cooled properly.


----------



## madmax777

will I add some kind of fan in the back? what do you recommend to do?


----------



## JereyWolf

madmax777 said:


> will I add some kind of fan in the back? what do you recommend to do?





madmax777 said:


> hello everyone. my friend and I have the same problem. if you turn on the white background, there is a ripple from the lower left corner (as if waves are floating). the video is very poorly visible, but in real life it is very noticeable. tell me who has such a problem? is this normal? we have such a problem on two projectors!
> 
> if you tell me how to add a video, I will add


@madmax777 
I can confirm @Dave Harper is correct about the waves being due to exhausted heat from the left side.
I added these usb powered extra fans that turn on while the projector is one. They only add a small amount of noise.


----------



## Brajesh

You have fans on both sides, I assume one pulling air, the other pushing? With Theater, one is intake, other outlet I think.


----------



## Ricoflashback

madmax777 said:


> if I put up with this problem, is it bad for the projector (that it is heated from this side)? I have a barrier just on the left side.


That looks terrible. Sorry, not trying to be negative but look for nothing but problems with that setup. You don't need fans as long as the PJ is on a stand with nothing around it - - completely open for ventilation.


----------



## JereyWolf

Brajesh said:


> You have fans on both sides, I assume one pulling air, the other pushing? With Theater, one is intake, other outlet I think.


Yes that's correct. I figured giving the stock fans a little boost wouldn't hurt.


----------



## rati

Have someone being able to compare the black level of the Formovie Theater against an Epson 5050, in a bat cave?


----------



## nautikos521

earlosaurus said:


> Unless you want to take apart the unit, and reverse the direction the screen is rolled up.


Is this really feasible and safe? Needless to say that it will affect the warranty


----------



## 3sprit




----------



## 3sprit

How do you remove the internal dust? 🤔


----------



## spinforu

Mine will be here tomorrow! Excited to she what she will do.


----------



## DesertDog

g3m said:


> I've used these settings previously and the menu wasn't washed out when forcing LLDV. Maybe check to make sure you have HDMI RGB range and Color Space on auto in your HDR10 picture mode. HDMI EDID should be on 2.1 and ensure you have HDMI 4k Enhanced mode enabled in your AVR (if you use one).


Well, I tried switching back to 4K DV last night and everything looked great. So either I've changed a setting that was causing the washed out look before or one of the recent ATV updates fixed it. Either way it's good to go now me.


----------



## DunMunro

A preview review of the Formovie Theater:









First Look Formovie Theater


Il Laser TV più chiacchierato del momento è dotato di sorgente trilaser RGB, risoluzione 4K con tecnologia DLP XPR, un flusso luminoso di 2.800 lumen e un rapporto di contrasto nativo fino a tre volte in più rispetto ai Laser TV tradizionali.



www.avmagazine.it




(use google translate for language of choice)


----------



## Nazgul

spinforu said:


> Mine will be here tomorrow! Excited to she what she will do.


Nice, hopefully this is a sign to come that more of us will be getting ours soon. 🤞


----------



## spinforu

Nazgul said:


> Nice, hopefully this is a sign to come that more of us will be getting ours soon. 🤞


Just got delivered! Where did you order from?


----------



## Nazgul

spinforu said:


> Just got delivered! Where did you order from?


Nice, you'll have to put up pics and let us know what you think! I ordered mine from www.projectorscreen.com, I know they were going to be getting a tranche at some point hopefully soon.


----------



## spinforu

Nazgul said:


> Nice, you'll have to put up pics and let us know what you think! I ordered mine from www.projectorscreen.com, I know they were going to be getting a tranche at some point hopefully soon.


That's where I ordered mine so hopefully you get yours soon. I'll post pics as soon as I get it up and running


----------



## Sam Ash

Can someone using a Formovie Theater in conjunction with a 120" ALR screen kindly tell me what the distance is between the top of the projector and the bottom of the projection area of the screen?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Sam Ash said:


> Can someone using a Formovie Theater in conjunction with a 120" ALR screen kindly tell me what the distance is between the top of the projector and the bottom of the projection area of the screen?


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> View attachment 3340309


These are a little off for a 16:9 screen. Mine's 12" from front to screen (25.5" to the back) and 16" for the bottom of screen to bottom of projector. It fills the screen perfectly. Just a little in from the edges. If I bumped each one up an inch I'd way way off the screen in each directly. 

It looks like Formovie put incorrect numbers in the owners manual. The 0.23 throw ratio puts the math at about what I have it. Only thing that I can think of that might make sense is if they used a different screen ratio. It looks like it might be close to their numbers if I crunch it as either a 2.35:1 or 2.4:1. They don't list the ratio though which I wish they had.


----------



## Quickfingerszaha

Hi guys,

I've just received the Formovie Theater and was quite anxious to play some ps5 games on it, however it seems that there are some bugs of sorts:

1) it boots up in 4k hdr (hdmi 1 with 2.0hdmi cable). If i reset the ps5 without resetting formovie, it only starts with 1080p and there's nothing I can do about it. Quite weird. I am using both game mode and standard.

2) i can't activate ALLM in ps5 settings no matter what I do (allm is active in the projector's settings). Has it occurred to you as well?

3) in standard mode, the image quality looks fantastic on ps5, but unplayable. After I switch to game mode though, everything is just extremely washed out. Have you experienced this as well?

The firmware is the latest, as it says it's up to date.

Thanks
Claudiu


----------



## Dave Harper

Quickfingerszaha said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've just received the Formovie Theater and was quite anxious to play some ps5 games on it, however it seems that there are some bugs of sorts:
> 
> 1) it boots up in 4k hdr (hdmi 1 with 2.0hdmi cable). If i reset the ps5 without resetting formovie, it only starts with 1080p and there's nothing I can do about it. Quite weird. I am using both game mode and standard.
> 
> 2) i can't activate ALLM in ps5 settings no matter what I do (allm is active in the projector's settings). Has it occurred to you as well?
> 
> 3) in standard mode, the image quality looks fantastic on ps5, but unplayable. After I switch to game mode though, everything is just extremely washed out. Have you experienced this as well?
> 
> The firmware is the latest, as it says it's up to date.
> 
> Thanks
> Claudiu


Which HDMI input are you using on the ForMovie? If input 1 then try going into the menus and manually setting it to HDMI 2.0.


----------



## Quickfingerszaha

Okay, will try that, let's see if it solves the resolution issue at least


----------



## 3sprit

I took this picture from another forum: do all Theater projectors have this uniformity of white or is it a defect?


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> I took this picture from another forum: do all Theater projectors have this uniformity of white or is it a defect?
> View attachment 3340990


This is me and I can tell you that in person I do not see the green like this.


----------



## 3sprit

In the other forum I read that, according to Formovie, this is a flaw: is it only yours or do other T1 and Theater users also have this problem? In all the previous posts of the two threads I had not heard of it…


----------



## spinforu

Mine is more blue in the left side. Not sure if that's normal. Just got mine this week


----------



## RazB

Mine also has this green tint on the left side. There is a uniformity issue with the projector, but I would say it can be emphasized more on some pictures than it actually is in real life.
Here I took a focus uniformity pattern shot which also shows some green tint:








Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Fox&304

Mine definitely has a rose tint on the left side.


----------



## madmax777

I have two theater projectors, both have a slightly green one on the left. Which I'm not very happy with.


----------



## JimBob1971

3sprit said:


> In the other forum I read that, according to Formovie, this is a flaw: is it only yours or do other T1 and Theater users also have this problem? In all the previous posts of the two threads I had not heard of it…


It was probably my photo on another forum based on you saying it was a flaw. That is what customer service told me, but I’m not sure how technical the person I spoke to was.

I asked the same question on here a few weeks ago and only David Harper answered at the time. He said “colour shift” is a known thing with tri laser projectors although I’m not sure if that is what I see or not.

I’m personally not convinced I’ll see an improvement if I swap especially given the comments above. On black and white films I can see a definite colour shift from left to right, but the camera probably exaggerates a touch although I can definitely see it with the naked eye”if looking” on a black and white movie. If I just watch rather than critique I have a great time.


----------



## 3sprit

It is strange that no reviewer and user has never talked about it and that there are now so many Theater in these conditions.
You can clearly see it while focusing the projector, with a white background (snow), with a yellow background (the sum of the colors is green), on a blue background (it becomes more blue). It is like RBE: it is there and you try to ignore it...


----------



## Fox&304

3sprit said:


> It is strange that no reviewer and user has never talked about it and that there are now so many Theater in these conditions.
> You can clearly see it while focusing the projector, with a white background (snow), with a yellow background (the sum of the colors is green), on a blue background (it becomes more blue). It is like RBE: it is there and you try to ignore it...


Won't put words in reviewers' mouths, but for me it's only visible in focus screens and such. I have never seen it in normal viewing.


----------



## leo0111127

3sprit said:


> I took this picture from another forum: do all Theater projectors have this uniformity of white or is it a defect?
> View attachment 3340990


Too much green


----------



## ProjectionHead

Pretty good UST round-up & reviews by The Hook Up on Youtube.

Was definitely a fan of the Formovie Theater, but also pointed out some of it's weaknesses:

Link right to his conclusions:


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Pretty good UST round-up & reviews by The Hook Up on Youtube.
> 
> Was definitely a fan of the Formovie Theater, but also pointed out some of it's weaknesses:
> 
> Link right to his conclusions:


Extra lumens would be nice but not at the $1,500 increase in cost while sacrificing black levels. Sharpness and brightness are two areas where the GT1 could improve but it’s still the pound for pound champ in UST projectors. You can address the brightness issue by using a non ALR screen but that would only be for bat cave users. With any ambient light, a non ALR screen will not be watchable in the daytime. Besides, I only watch SDR content so the HDR and DV argument advancing the AWOL is moot for me. Remote wise, every manufacturer misses the boat if they don’t provide a backlit feature, IMHO.

I hope the next technology improvement for UST projectors will be more advanced screens that can provide additional brightness without sacrificing black levels. That might be wishful thinking and difficult to accomplish. On a side note, I suspect that my el cheapo WEMAX screen provides a little more brightness than the darker fabric screens. It’s more of a mid dark gray than a black look. If we find a house where I can only fit a 100” screen - I’m going to keep it. It’s stellar at night and even at the dinner table, watching the news with the lights on - - it’s a very clear picture. Our dinner table is to the side about 8 feet away from the edge of the screen on the right and the off angle viewing is phenomenal. Lastly, I can watch all night with zero eye fatigue. That’s what I ❤ about watching a projector.


----------



## dami1337

Ricoflashback said:


> Extra lumens would be nice but not at the $1,500 increase in cost while sacrificing black levels. Sharpness and brightness are two areas where the GT1 could improve but it’s still the pound for pound champ in UST projectors. You can address the brightness issue by using a non ALR screen but that would only be for bat cave users. With any ambient light, a non ALR screen will not be watchable in the daytime. Besides, I only watch SDR content so the HDR and DV argument advancing the AWOL is moot for me. Remote wise, every manufacturer misses the boat if they don’t provide a backlit feature, IMHO.
> 
> I hope the next technology improvement for UST projectors will be more advanced screens that can provide additional brightness without sacrificing black levels. That might be wishful thinking and difficult to accomplish. On a side note, I suspect that my el cheapo WEMAX screen provides a little more brightness than the darker fabric screens. It’s more of a mid dark gray than a black look. If we find a house where I can only fit a 100” screen - I’m going to keep it. It’s stellar at night and even at the dinner table, watching the news with the lights on - - it’s a very clear picture. Our dinner table is to the side about 8 feet away from the edge of the screen on the right and the off angle viewing is phenomenal. Lastly, I can watch all night with zero eye fatigue. That’s what I ❤ about watching a projector.


Maybe these guys but they are doing such a bad job in creating community, hype or marketing that I am not sure. Lets hope for the best: https://youtube.com/c/MirraViz


----------



## ProjectionHead

dami1337 said:


> Maybe these guys but they are doing such a bad job in creating community, hype or marketing that I am not sure. Lets hope for the best: https://youtube.com/c/MirraViz


I got one of these screens from them and gave my thoughts in another thread.
It’s promising, but def not ready for mass market. They make it by putting “tiles” together and you can see the seams and that the tiles aren’t uniform.
Hoping they advance this soon and I stay in touch with them.
Also, the new Hisense Daylight Fresnel screen is pretty darn good too, but does have a reduced viewing angle.
We’ll be doing a side by side against their lenticular Cinema screen in the next week or so.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> I got one of these screens from them and gave my thoughts in another thread.
> It’s promising, but def not ready for mass market. They make it by putting “tiles” together and you can see the seams and that the tiles aren’t uniform.
> Hoping they advance this soon and I stay in touch with them.
> Also, the new Hisense Daylight Fresnel screen is pretty darn good too, but does have a reduced viewing angle.
> We’ll be doing a side by side against their lenticular Cinema screen in the next week or so.


Thanks, Brian. You and projectorscreen.com has done (and will continue to do) a great job in helping us understand the benefits of various product offerings and how they work. I really think we're going to see more advances in UST screen technology as the projector moves into the living room for folks that don't have the space for a dedicated home theater. 

Oh by the way - - the cleaning recommendation (Nikon pen) has worked out great for me. I have it next to my PJ and at least once a week, I use it. A double treatment. First the brush and then the cleaning tip.


----------



## tulear

Hi all,
I'm trying to know what is the firmware version of my GT1, but I do not see where I can find the info (there's a menu to check if there's a new firmware, but not info about the current one ...)
Thanks


----------



## roscoeiii

ProjectionHead said:


> Pretty good UST round-up & reviews by The Hook Up on Youtube.
> 
> Was definitely a fan of the Formovie Theater, but also pointed out some of it's weaknesses:
> 
> Link right to his conclusions:


Felt like a fair review and really hit the sweet spot of being very detailed for the nerds but also very clear for folks who don't follow these things. 

Likely no surprise here that comes down to brightness/ambient light performance vs black levels between Formovie & AWOL.

Was also surprised to see Formovie brightness falling 500 below advertised.


----------



## Ricoflashback

roscoeiii said:


> Felt like a fair review and really hit the sweet spot of being very detailed for the nerds but also very clear for folks who don't follow these things.
> 
> Likely no surprise here that comes down to brightness/ambient light performance vs black levels between Formovie & AWOL.
> 
> Was also surprised to see Formovie brightness falling 500 below advertised.


I didn't notice it but was there any mention of the sound quality on the AWOL versus the GT1? The Formovie sound is as good as a quality soundbar, IMHO.


----------



## JackB

My GT1 arrives on this coming Friday. I have an EZCOOL splitter that converts DolbyVision to LLDV like an HDfury. Has anyone successfully connected one of these to the Formovie?


----------



## Nazgul

What screen are people using for their Formovie? Looking for a 100" size but don't want to break the bank. :-/


----------



## Nazgul

roscoeiii said:


> Was also surprised to see Formovie brightness falling 500 below advertised.


Is anyone else seeing this or is it just them? I haven't poured through reviews to see if other reviewers are noticing the same thing. Is this an issue similar to the Epson LS800 where it's using ISO 21118 Lumens not ANSI Lumens? That may explain the 500 less, as 2,800 * 0.8 = ~500 Lumen difference.


----------



## leo0111127

Nazgul said:


> Is anyone else seeing this or is it just them? I haven't poured through reviews to see if other reviewers are noticing the same thing. Is this an issue similar to the Epson LS800 where it's using ISO 21118 Lumens not ANSI Lumens? That may explain the 500 less, as 2,800 * 0.8 = ~500 Lumen difference.


2800 ansi lumen is the marketing data, the same model laser enginee as VAVA Chroma comes from Appotronics, the actual lumen is 2000-22000 ansi lumen.


----------



## Nazgul

leo0111127 said:


> 2800 ansi lumen is the marketing data, the same model laser enginee as VAVA Chroma comes from Appotronics, the actual lumen is 2000-22000 ansi lumen.


Oof... How can companies get away with saying X ANSI Lumens when it's really X*.8 (or whatever).


----------



## 3sprit

Fox&304 said:


> Won't put words in reviewers' mouths, but for me it's only visible in focus screens and such. I have never seen it in normal viewing.


I see it...
Is there anyone who has a totally white screen?


----------



## Sam Ash

Has anyone seen the Formovie in action and had the chance to compare between a 100" and 120" lenticular screen?

I am of the opinion that even a 120" lenticular screen would work as long as the room is kept fairly dark.

Any idea of the gain on these ALR screens?

Any experiential input will be appreciated.


----------



## Nazgul

Sam Ash said:


> Any idea of the gain on these ALR screens?


I've seen like 0.6 a lot, all of them are sub 1 I believe.


----------



## Sam Ash

Nazgul said:


> I've seen like 0.6 a lot, all of them are sub 1 I believe.


You are right, I think realistically they are more like 0.4 to 0.5.


----------



## Fox&304

My ALR screen is 0.6. A perfect match for the Theater and my environment I think.


----------



## roscoeiii

Screenshot from review. ANSI lumens were measured and measurement method is described in video.


----------



## Sam Ash

Fox&304 said:


> My ALR screen is 0.6. A perfect match for the Theater and my environment I think.


What screen are you using and what size is it?


----------



## 3sprit

roscoeiii said:


> Was also surprised to see Formovie brightness falling 500 below advertised.


Grégory's measurements confirm the declared data.
Obviously by calibrating the brightness decreases.


----------



## clipghost

Anyone in SoCal have the Formovie Theater or know where I could check it out in person?


----------



## madmax777

hello everyone. tell me, can I connect a subwoofer to a t1 global projector? and in what way? I like the sound in the projector. low frequencies are not enough for me.

I want to buy a subwoofer of the same B &W, if it is possible to connect it to the projector.


----------



## Nazgul

madmax777 said:


> hello everyone. tell me, can I connect a subwoofer to a t1 global projector? and in what way? I like the sound in the projector. low frequencies are not enough for me.
> 
> I want to buy a subwoofer of the same B &W, if it is possible to connect it to the projector.


I'd have to look at the manual but yes generally you can, especially if you use the Android OS which has an option for Headphone/Line Out, it's the 3.5mm plug on your projector. Connect that to your (powered) sub via whatever other plug it uses (usually RCA), then switch the Setting in Android to Subwoofer.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Nazgul said:


> I'd have to look at the manual but yes generally you can, especially if you use the Android OS which has an option for Headphone/Line Out, it's the 3.5mm plug on your projector. Connect that to your (powered) sub via whatever other plug it uses (usually RCA), then switch the Setting in Android to Subwoofer.


Big downside is that you cannot control the subwoofer volume via the Formovie remote; you will have to control it separately 
Same is true for all other USTs except the Optoma P2/D2


----------



## 3sprit

madmax777 said:


> I want to buy a subwoofer of the same B &W, if it is possible to connect it to the projector.


The audio output is fixed: you cannot control the volume.
You have to use two remotes.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Big downside is that you cannot control the subwoofer volume via the Formovie remote; you will have to control it separately
> Same is true for all other USTs except the Optoma P2/D2


Yes, but you can always adjust the volume level at the subwoofer itself. Even with my old setup and everything running through the AVR - - I occasionally "manually" adjusted the volume by just turning the dial on my sub even though I had controls via my Denon AVR.


----------



## Nazgul

Ricoflashback said:


> Yes, but you can always adjust the volume level at the subwoofer itself. Even with my old setup and everything running through the AVR - - I occasionally "manually" adjusted the volume by just turning the dial on my sub even though I had controls via my Denon AVR.


If needing a second remote or manually turning the dial is the worst part that's not too bad, given the other option is no sub at all.


----------



## Penquinizer

Is anyone else having major controller issues?

I've turned the system on and off about ~10 times now since getting it. 

About 3 of those times the controller doesn't seem to power on the unit. (Unplug / replug fixes it) Once I had to go the extra step of unplugging/replugging twice. Aha

Almost 5 of those times after turning on the unit with the controller, the controller doesn't work. Once again have to unplug and replug to fix it. 

Is there a setting or something that is throwing off the controller?


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Ricoflashback said:


> Nice! The pictures will be even better with the new screen. Make sure to turn "Color Space" - "On"


 Hey mate I have a Global T1 aswell. For my experience there are multiple picture settings for SDR HDR DV When u are in Google menu and go into picture that's SDR I can only seem to adjust HDR when HDR content is playing then on the remote with the gears symbol and go into picture that way. The menu is even marked as UserHDR. When I do this you can't chance "color Space" it's greyed out..... Are you able to access this in HDR picture settings?


----------



## Brajesh

SDR & DV looks great. The problem is HDR... what are y'all doing to make it look better (brighter)? If I use Zidoo Z9X & force HDR to LLDV (using VS10 engine), it looks fine. But, that isn't an option w/Shield TV.


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Fox&304 said:


> The Theater absolutely doesn't need any extra device to look stellar. I've been using it in SDR, HDR10, DV, on consoles, rips, streaming, and while I spent some time tweaking each mode in the settings, it delivers an incredible image.


Post your settings for each one SDR / HDR / DV please


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Brajesh said:


> SDR & DV looks great. The problem is HDR... what are y'all doing to make it look better (brighter)? If I use Zidoo Z9X & force HDR to LLDV (using VS10 engine), it looks fine. But, that isn't an option w/Shield TV.


Can you link me this Zidoo z9x. I hear alot of this device on this forum.
Are you saying the Zidoo will force LLDV without using a HDFury V2?

I also hear abit about the nvicia shield pro as well Here. I just love watching movies on 4k player on my atmos system.
Which one would be best for this?
I stream but I don't care much for this.
If the zidoo can do something for streaming that will be OK.

I'm just confused on which one to add to my system for my GT1 for what I use it for.

Been reading this thread for 2 days now alot of awesome feed back.

God bless you all.


----------



## Dave Harper

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Hey mate I have a Global T1 aswell. For my experience there are multiple picture settings for SDR HDR DV When u are in Google menu and go into picture that's SDR I can only seem to adjust HDR when HDR content is playing then on the remote with the gears symbol and go into picture that way. The menu is even marked as UserHDR. When I do this you can't chance "color Space" it's greyed out..... Are you able to access this in HDR picture settings?


It is locked out in HDR mode. No need to change it when in that mode because it is already in BT2020 color gamut.

The only time to manually change it to on is when you are in a SDR mode so that it will change to the proper BT709 color gamut.


----------



## rjyap

madmax777 said:


> I have two theater projectors, both have a slightly green one on the left. Which I'm not very happy with.


what screen material are you using? Could be fresnel like screen causing the color shift on the extreme edge. Here’s taken on matte screen material. From naked eye there is only slight brightness and color shift. Not noticeable in real world content.


----------



## Fox&304

Sam Ash said:


> What screen are you using and what size is it?


BenQ ALR screen. 100"


----------



## esegan

Greetings to all, I haven’t looked into this thread for a long time, but there are already 95 pages here. Have there been tests with measurements and calibration of T1 global, if it's not difficult to write where you can look?
I have had a T1 global for a month now, but it is sitting idle in a box. There was a desire to get it and set it up on the device. But I'm also interested in what other calibrators have and want to compare with my settings.
I got a review.
Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)
but it has almost no settings. I'm also confused by the general RGB settings. As far as I understand, the calibration was performed without a correction matrix for the application. Since the settings show that red is added by reducing the green color and blue is reduced by 19 units. I can assume that the X-RITE I1 PRO2 device was used, since it sees colors like this. X-RITE D3 pushes red more and lowers blue less. I'm wondering if these 0 /-25/-44 gray scale settings really make the image natural and natural? I can assume that the black / white image will be reddish-green.


----------



## madmax777

rjyap said:


> what screen material are you using? Could be fresnel like screen causing the color shift on the extreme edge. Here’s taken on matte screen material. From naked eye there is only slight brightness and color shift. Not noticeable in real world content.
> 
> View attachment 3342507


I have this screen: https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050043...4&spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.71623e5f5pTg5D


----------



## 3sprit

Is the network card, both Ethernet and Wi-Fi, limited to 100 Mbps? 🤔


----------



## Brajesh

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Can you link me this Zidoo z9x. I hear alot of this device on this forum.
> Are you saying the Zidoo will force LLDV without using a HDFury V2?
> 
> I also hear abit about the nvicia shield pro as well Here. I just love watching movies on 4k player on my atmos system.
> Which one would be best for this?
> I stream but I don't care much for this.
> If the zidoo can do something for streaming that will be OK.


Zidoo is for local content only (your BD/UHD rips), while Shield can do this & premium streaming (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). Zidoo allows you to send any combination of SDR, HDR & DV as LLDV, and w/o a HDFury. Shield will only support what the video is, not convert all these to LLDV.

Zidoo player | Recommended settings & support thread


----------



## Dave Harper

esegan said:


> Greetings to all, I haven’t looked into this thread for a long time, but there are already 95 pages here. Have there been tests with measurements and calibration of T1 global, if it's not difficult to write where you can look?
> I have had a T1 global for a month now, but it is sitting idle in a box. There was a desire to get it and set it up on the device. But I'm also interested in what other calibrators have and want to compare with my settings.
> I got a review.
> Formovie Theater UST Projector Review (Global Version of Fengmi T1)
> but it has almost no settings. I'm also confused by the general RGB settings. As far as I understand, the calibration was performed without a correction matrix for the application. Since the settings show that red is added by reducing the green color and blue is reduced by 19 units. I can assume that the X-RITE I1 PRO2 device was used, since it sees colors like this. X-RITE D3 pushes red more and lowers blue less. I'm wondering if these 0 /-25/-44 gray scale settings really make the image natural and natural? I can assume that the black / white image will be reddish-green.


I’m the one who calibrated and wrote that review. That is the projector and the calibrated settings that won the UST Laser TV Showdown in August. I think if what you said is true, then the panel of expert judges who’ve each been in the business for decades would’ve noticed, don’t you think?

We did NOT use the XRite. We had the Jeti 1511 Hi-Res spectroradiometer which was used to profile a Klein K-10A Colorimeter, so you can’t get much better than that!

The settings were what they needed to be to attain the proper grayscale and color gamut performance. Your assumptions are incorrect.


----------



## madmax777

Nazgul said:


> I'd have to look at the manual but yes generally you can, especially if you use the Android OS which has an option for Headphone/Line Out, it's the 3.5mm plug on your projector. Connect that to your (powered) sub via whatever other plug it uses (usually RCA), then switch the Setting in Android to Subwoofer.


if I buy a soundbar, can I connect it in parallel to the built-in acoustics of the projector? or only as a substitute?

I don't want to lose the good acoustics of the projector (bowers wilkins), for which I paid 1/3 of the price of the projector


----------



## Nazgul

madmax777 said:


> if I buy a soundbar, can I connect it in parallel to the built-in acoustics of the projector? or only as a substitute?


If you buy a soundbar and plug it in to the projector your options for sound are then the projector or soundbar, not both.


----------



## 3sprit

madmax777 said:


> if I buy a soundbar, can I connect it in parallel to the built-in acoustics of the projector? or only as a substitute?


You can connect the soundbar to the optical output of the projector and both will work but you will have to use two volume controls and Dolby is limited on the optical output anyway.
If you use external sources the best solution is "source -> soundbar -> projector" all via HDMI.


----------



## 3sprit

Nazgul said:


> If you buy a soundbar and plug it in to the projector your options for sound are then the projector or soundbar, not both.


I can use my hi-fi system (DAC and pro monitor) together with the speakers of the projector: you can choose whether to leave the speakers on or turn them off.


----------



## Nazgul

3sprit said:


> I can use my hi-fi system (DAC and pro monitor) together with the speakers of the projector: you can choose whether to leave the speakers on or turn them off.


Do they all blend in properly? Like how does the system recognize the projector speakers versus your satellites? I think they are looking to buy a soundbar, find it hard to fathom how that'd work properly with the existing "soundbar" in the projector.


----------



## Sonny Red

Custom cover ordered on rotri.de


----------



## Odysea

Does anyone else get red flashes while watching their Formovie? Fortunately it’s fairly rare, but it is quite disruptive and jarring. It’s one quick flash, then everything is back to normal.

On multiple occasions I re-wind and play through again to ensure it’s not the content but the projector itself. Any ideas what could be going on?


----------



## rjyap

madmax777 said:


> I have this screen: https://aliexpress.ru/item/10050043...4&spm=a2g0s.imconversation.0.0.71623e5f5pTg5D


If you have some A3 size white paper, try to tape it your screen and see if you have severe color shift. This would rule out if the issue is from the projector or screen material.


----------



## achalmersman

3sprit said:


> Is the network card, both Ethernet and Wi-Fi, limited to 100 Mbps?


I don't have one of these projectors but 100mbps is more than enough to stream full quality uncompressed 4k media with HD audio

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## Nazgul

Anyone have a good recommendation on a 100" ALR screen for this?


----------



## Dave Harper

Nazgul said:


> Anyone have a good recommendation on a 100" ALR screen for this?


When it was paired with the 100” Spectra Vantage screen at projectorscreen.com for the Laser TV Showdown, it won the RGB laser category so I’d say that’s a good match for it!


----------



## esegan

Dave Harper said:


> I’m the one who calibrated and wrote that review. That is the projector and the calibrated settings that won the UST Laser TV Showdown in August.
> We did NOT use the XRite. We had the Jeti 1511 Hi-Res spectroradiometer which was used to profile a Klein K-10A Colorimeter, so you can’t get much better than that!


I do not doubt your professionalism and qualifications, and the test participants, as well as the class of expensive and accurate measuring equipment used.
But the Jeti 1511 and Klein K-10A are set to reference correct colors, but the laser and diodes do not have reference accurate colors. Plasma TVs were closer to the standard.
Can you share your SDR and HDR calibration settings (initial contrast, brightness, temperature and..., common RGB greyscale, RGB 2 and 11 points, and color space settings for all 6 colors)? If it's not a trade secret? Well, or at least common and for 2 points of the gray scale and at which point the brightness is 30 or 80 or .... the minimum delta-e deviation? So that I can focus on your most accurate brightness point and use it to adjust the correction matrix for my i1 pro2 and D3 devices, calibrate and visually evaluate the result for naturalness of the image.
You or one of your colleagues checked for exact repeatability of the T1 global calibration settings for 3-4pcs. or which settings (sergo scale, gamma, color space or...) are close in repeatability and which are not? Thanks in advance.
ps. Can anyone provide the calibration settings of French blogger Gregory as well? In his test, he did not indicate any settings at all, and even the initial contrast, brightness, temperature, and ... or share the link where he posted the settings?
I would like to discuss some of the nuances in more detail, but English is not my native language, and the meaning often changes through the translator.


----------



## 3sprit

Nazgul said:


> Do they all blend in properly? Like how does the system recognize the projector speakers versus your satellites? I think they are looking to buy a soundbar, find it hard to fathom how that'd work properly with the existing "soundbar" in the projector.


They are totally independent. Then, of course, my hifi system costs 5 times as much as the Theater so I prefer to turn off the projector speakers. However they can be used together.


----------



## 3sprit

Sonny Red said:


> Custom cover ordered on rotri.de


What measurements did you give them?
Does it take off and put on easily?
Thank you


----------



## madmax777

rjyap said:


> If you have some A3 size white paper, try to tape it your screen and see if you have severe color shift. This would rule out if the issue is from the projector or screen material.


on two different walls, the same thing


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> What measurements did you give them?
> Does it take off and put on easily?
> Thank you


*It’s not a full cover. Only sides and top. Easy to take off and put on. *

Here below the details of my order with dimensions


album foto online


----------



## 3sprit

Of course, but it must be easy to "put on and remove the cover from the top" so as not to risk moving the projector every time.


----------



## Odysea

What personally worked well for me:


Amazon.com


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> Of course, but it must be easy to "put on and remove the cover from the top" so as not to risk moving the projector every time.


Yes it’s easy no risk moving the projector


----------



## madmax777

Nazgul said:


> I'd have to look at the manual but yes generally you can, especially if you use the Android OS which has an option for Headphone/Line Out, it's the 3.5mm plug on your projector. Connect that to your (powered) sub via whatever other plug it uses (usually RCA), then switch the Setting in Android to Subwoofer.


I connected the speakers via the 3.5 connector and the sound on the projector turned off, in the projector settings I did not find how to turn on the sound simultaneously on both the projector and the speakers. as soon as I pull out the 3.5 times, the sound appears on the projector.


----------



## Joered101

So how is it, when I turn Color space on. I cannot get even full srgb spectrum? Both cyan and green won’t go anywhere above that, even when I pump saturation to 100%.
Anyone have any idea? Photo attached for ref….
Help….


----------



## esegan

Dave Harper said:


> I’m the one who calibrated and wrote that review. That is the projector and the calibrated settings that won the UST Laser TV Showdown in August. I think if what you said is true, then the panel of expert judges who’ve each been in the business for decades would’ve noticed, don’t you think?


The fact that T1 won the comparison test only means that he won with the same calibration method for all participants. But this does not mean that T1 and all participants are calibrated exactly by the color standard. Your instruments are expensive, accurate, highly repeatable, but they are set to reference correct colors, but the laser and diodes do not have 100% reference correct colors. Do you understand me? I can assume that your devices also need a correction matrix for laser measurement, but with less corrections than budget devices.
For a reference and more accurate color calibration, you need to set up several T1s with different corrections and compare.
I found your grayscale settings for general RGB , 2 point RGB and color space. Since I wanted to evaluate only color reproduction, and not gamma and the exact linearity of the gray scale, these settings are sufficient for a visual assessment of color reproduction.
As I initially expected, given the overall gray scale setting of 0/-25/-44, the image is shifted a little red and lacks blue. I even liked the factory Standard preset better, although it's not perfect either.
In theory, with an accurate gray scale, a black/white image should not have a tint, but your settings do have a tint on a black/white image.
If you can comment and challenge my statement, then I will be glad. I started calibrating 8-10 years ago, but I don't use it often as in business, and therefore I have less experience and knowledge than you and other specialists participating in the test.


----------



## kraine

Joered101 said:


> So how is it, when I turn Color space on. I cannot get even full srgb spectrum? Both cyan and green won’t go anywhere above that, even when I pump saturation to 100%.
> Anyone have any idea? Photo attached for ref….
> Help….


Calibration on SDR with the Color Space on look like this on almost every Formovie Theater that I have already calibrate.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> Calibration on SDR with the Color Space on look like this on almost every Formovie Theater that I have already calibrate.
> 
> View attachment 3343164
> 
> View attachment 3343163


Any idea what I'm doing wrong? Could it be my colour temperature taking too mchh blue and green out. I'm Red: 0 Green: -24 Blue: - 49 

Thanks Kraine alwaysa appreciate your responses.


----------



## kraine

Are you sure of the reliability of your measurement probe? Is it adapted or calibrated for measuring a laser projector?


----------



## rjyap

Joered101 said:


> So how is it, when I turn Color space on. I cannot get even full srgb spectrum? Both cyan and green won’t go anywhere above that, even when I pump saturation to 100%.
> Anyone have any idea? Photo attached for ref….
> Help….


Looks like your color measurement jump all over the place. I had the same problem when using HCFR where sometime it read the wrong patches which I suspect due to timing issue when doing automatic reading. If I manually select the color patch that is too far off and click single read, it will give a correct measurement. Don't have this problem in Calman. Note that my i1 Display Pro colorimeter is profile against i1 Pro spectrometer. You need to profile your colorimeter against spectrometer to get a more accurate reading.


----------



## esegan

kraine said:


> Calibration on SDR with the Color Space on look like this on almost every Formovie Theater that I have already calibrate.


Gregory, have you posted your advanced T1 global settings for public study and where can you see them or is it a secret?
I would like to get acquainted with them and visually evaluate, and when I do my calibration, then compare with my own, perhaps through Kalman the result is more accurate. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Joered101

rjyap said:


> Looks like your color measurement jump all over the place. I had the same problem when using HCFR where sometime it read the wrong patches which I suspect due to timing issue when doing automatic reading. If I manually select the color patch that is too far off and click single read, it will give a correct measurement. Don't have this problem in Calman. Note that my i1 Display Pro colorimeter is profile against i1 Pro spectrometer. You need to profile your colorimeter against spectrometer to get a more accurate reading.


aha ignore the other ones, that was from jus tbefore when i swapped to native color gamut they just remained there.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> Are you sure of the reliability of your measurement probe? Is it adapted or calibrated for measuring a laser projector?


This is something definitely not sure of. Just a photographer that has a calibrator but also tormented by needing things accurate as I notice all color faults. Which is why this is driving me crazy. 

I have the i1 display, not sure how i would get that properly calibrated or if it's something i can bring to somehwere or do myself? Feel like i can see the green and cyan as being a bit undersaturated when I look at the patches with the eye anyway..... so not sure about that?

thanks!


----------



## Dave Harper

esegan said:


> I do not doubt your professionalism and qualifications, and the test participants, as well as the class of expensive and accurate measuring equipment used.
> But the Jeti 1511 and Klein K-10A are set to reference correct colors, but the laser and diodes do not have reference accurate colors. Plasma TVs were closer to the standard.
> Can you share your SDR and HDR calibration settings (initial contrast, brightness, temperature and..., common RGB greyscale, RGB 2 and 11 points, and color space settings for all 6 colors)? If it's not a trade secret? Well, or at least common and for 2 points of the gray scale and at which point the brightness is 30 or 80 or .... the minimum delta-e deviation? So that I can focus on your most accurate brightness point and use it to adjust the correction matrix for my i1 pro2 and D3 devices, calibrate and visually evaluate the result for naturalness of the image.
> You or one of your colleagues checked for exact repeatability of the T1 global calibration settings for 3-4pcs. or which settings (sergo scale, gamma, color space or...) are close in repeatability and which are not? Thanks in advance.
> ps. Can anyone provide the calibration settings of French blogger Gregory as well? In his test, he did not indicate any settings at all, and even the initial contrast, brightness, temperature, and ... or share the link where he posted the settings?
> I would like to discuss some of the nuances in more detail, but English is not my native language, and the meaning often changes through the translator.





esegan said:


> The fact that T1 won the comparison test only means that he won with the same calibration method for all participants. But this does not mean that T1 and all participants are calibrated exactly by the color standard. Your instruments are expensive, accurate, highly repeatable, but they are set to reference correct colors, but the laser and diodes do not have 100% reference correct colors. Do you understand me? I can assume that your devices also need a correction matrix for laser measurement, but with less corrections than budget devices.
> For a reference and more accurate color calibration, you need to set up several T1s with different corrections and compare.
> I found your grayscale settings for general RGB , 2 point RGB and color space. Since I wanted to evaluate only color reproduction, and not gamma and the exact linearity of the gray scale, these settings are sufficient for a visual assessment of color reproduction.
> As I initially expected, given the overall gray scale setting of 0/-25/-44, the image is shifted a little red and lacks blue. I even liked the factory Standard preset better, although it's not perfect either.
> In theory, with an accurate gray scale, a black/white image should not have a tint, but your settings do have a tint on a black/white image.
> If you can comment and challenge my statement, then I will be glad. I started calibrating 8-10 years ago, but I don't use it often as in business, and therefore I have less experience and knowledge than you and other specialists participating in the test.


These were done under contract with projectorscreen.com. I’m not able to divulge this information myself. It would need to be cleared through @ProjectionHead aka Brian. If he shares this info, then he puts it on his own website as you can understand. He pays a lot of money for this service so it’s reasonable for him to have this stance. 

Suffice it to say, this was a judging panel and host consisting of many, many decades in the AV industry, many of which are ISF and THX certified for a LONG time. I’m sorry but I trust their eyes and judgements more than some unknown person posting questions on a forum, questioning the validity of ultra expensive, highly accurate test equipment in the hands of some of the top professionals in their field.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> Looks like your color measurement jump all over the place. I had the same problem when using HCFR where sometime it read the wrong patches which I suspect due to timing issue when doing automatic reading. If I manually select the color patch that is too far off and click single read, it will give a correct measurement. Don't have this problem in Calman. Note that my i1 Display Pro colorimeter is profile against i1 Pro spectrometer. You need to profile your colorimeter against spectrometer to get a more accurate reading.


I’m under the impression that unless you really know what your doing, calibration wise, with the right equipment and standards (and experience) - you can get all sorts of readings. To me, unless you’re really willing to spend a lot of time learning how to calibrate and not just on one display, you’d be better off with the “OOTB” experience. I guess I’m not a tinkerer and I find the best out of the box settings I can and with a tweak here and there, I call it a day and focus on the content I’m watching.


----------



## kraine

Joered101 said:


> This is something definitely not sure of. Just a photographer that has a calibrator but also tormented by needing things accurate as I notice all color faults. Which is why this is driving me crazy.
> 
> I have the i1 display, not sure how i would get that properly calibrated or if it's something i can bring to somehwere or do myself? Feel like i can see the green and cyan as being a bit undersaturated when I look at the patches with the eye anyway..... so not sure about that?
> 
> thanks!


Already take a proper software and a profiled probe for the laser. You have some available here :









Display 3 PRO colorimeter with ChromaPure Professional


Display 3 PRO colorimeter with ChromaPure Professional




shop.chromapure.com


----------



## madmax777

please tell me a good subwoofer with an optical output to connect to the projector. the 3.5 connector is not suitable, the sound on the projector disappears.
I use a projector without different consoles, so i need to connect the subwoofer to the projector.
when connected via Bluetooth, the projector speakers are also turned off.


----------



## JackB

I just got mine up and running. So far it looks really good. I haven’t done any tuning yet except to turn off MEMC and NR. DolbyVision is a little dark for my taste. I want to try with it off but can’t find where to hit the off button. Could someone point me to it?


----------



## Nazgul

madmax777 said:


> please tell me a good subwoofer with an optical output to connect to the projector. the 3.5 connector is not suitable, the sound on the projector disappears.
> I use a projector without different consoles, so i need to connect the subwoofer to the projector.
> when connected via Bluetooth, the projector speakers are also turned off.


Not sure why your 3.5 to subwoofer didn't work, check this video.


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> I’m under the impression that unless you really know what your doing, calibration wise, with the right equipment and standards (and experience) - you can get all sorts of readings. To me, unless you’re really willing to spend a lot of time learning how to calibrate and not just on one display, you’d be better off with the “OOTB” experience. I guess I’m not a tinkerer and I find the best out of the box settings I can and with a tweak here and there, I call it a day and focus on the content I’m watching.


I started learning how to calibrate when Calman still using macro in Excel spreadsheet. Reason is at that time there's no ISF calibrator in my country and have to DIY. Not a cheap hobby but I'm the kind of guy who wanted to squeeze every ounce of performance out of my devices.

Recently going to tune my theater room for better acoustic with binary amplitude diffuser.


----------



## rjyap

deleted


----------



## JackB

Is Color Gamut the same as Color Space? I've seen the two used in previous posts. I have not been able to find Color Gamut anywhere.


----------



## madmax777

Nazgul said:


> Not sure why your 3.5 to subwoofer didn't work, check this video.


on the video, a choice is possible when connected to the 3.5 connector. on the projector, there is no choice in the settings. you plug it into the 3.5 connector and the sound on the projector disappears.


----------



## Nazgul

madmax777 said:


> on the video, a choice is possible when connected to the 3.5 connector. on the projector, there is no choice in the settings. you plug it into the 3.5 connector and the sound on the projector disappears.


Ok, looks like sadly Formovie didn't enable that. :-/


----------



## 3sprit

My Theater is noisy: any ideas on how to build a Hush Box? Thank you


----------



## madmax777

can you tell me the LAN port of the projector is 100 or 1000?


----------



## mirzank

3sprit said:


> My Theater is noisy: any ideas on how to build a Hush Box? Thank you


Really ?? Wow mine is so quiet I can’t even tell if it’s on or off


----------



## ACE844

madmax777 said:


> can you tell me the LAN port of the projector is 100 or 1000?


I get GIG with my Cn version


----------



## ProjectionHead

Formovie Theater & 150" Spectra Projection Vantage UST ALR Screen 🤯


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Dave Harper said:


> It is locked out in HDR mode. No need to change it when in that mode because it is already in BT2020 color gamut.
> 
> The only time to manually change it to on is when you are in a SDR mode so that it will change to the proper BT709 color gamut.


Thanks Dave I thought this might be the case but had to make sure.
What about MAX vivid?
That's always greyed out for me in all modes. Could be cuz of my hdmi cable I got emotiva 8k cables coming so won't have bandwidth issues anymore.
And also the HDMI part is greyed out I can't change that to 2.1 like I've seen people do here.


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Brajesh said:


> Zidoo is for local content only (your BD/UHD rips), while Shield can do this & premium streaming (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). Zidoo allows you to send any combination of SDR, HDR & DV as LLDV, and w/o a HDFury. Shield will only support what the video is, not convert all these to LLDV.
> 
> Zidoo player | Recommended settings & support thread


Sorry is BD blueray disk?
So zidoo will make my 4k disk movies go all to LLDV like a HDfury will. Does zidoo do this automatically? I have read alot on the HD Fury and there is alot of tweaking and settings to do. So zidoo is more a automatic version of it?
I'm not to fussed with my streaming content to be the best quality possible.
But I am after the best sharpness 4k wise possible which one would be better Apple4kTV or shield pro?

Cheers


----------



## MarcusD777

mirzank said:


> Really ?? Wow mine is so quiet I can’t even tell if it’s on or off


Same here. My Theater is the quietest projector I have ever owned. You may have something up with yours for sure. Are the fans being blocked at all on your Theater?


----------



## Dave Harper

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Thanks Dave I thought this might be the case but had to make sure.
> What about MAX vivid?
> That's always greyed out for me in all modes. Could be cuz of my hdmi cable I got emotiva 8k cables coming so won't have bandwidth issues anymore.
> And also the HDMI part is greyed out I can't change that to 2.1 like I've seen people do here.


I just got a ForMovie here to test for awhile. I’ll get reacquainted with it. I don’t recall the details of those settings. 



leeroyagnello4 said:


> Sorry is BD blueray disk?
> So zidoo will make my 4k disk movies go all to LLDV like a HDfury will. Does zidoo do this automatically? I have read alot on the HD Fury and there is alot of tweaking and settings to do. So zidoo is more a automatic version of it?
> I'm not to fussed with my streaming content to be the best quality possible.
> But I am after the best sharpness 4k wise possible which one would be better Apple4kTV or shield pro?
> 
> Cheers


Yes Zidoo has a couple custom EDIDs that you can select to force LLDV without having to use an HDFury. 

You can’t customize things like max luminance or the DV Block so it won’t do the best tone mapping to match your display but you won’t know until you try it. Maybe someone else has a Zidoo and ForMovie to test?



MarcusD777 said:


> Same here. My Theater is the quietest projector I have ever owned. You may have something up with yours for sure. Are the fans being blocked at all on your Theater?


All the ones I’ve tested were pretty quiet.


----------



## luisalbertokid

ProjectionHead said:


> Formovie Theater & 150" Spectra Projection Vantage UST ALR Screen 🤯


Formovie at 150"? I've read people on this thread claiming it's not supposed to go beyond 100" because of focus issues. Does it hold well at 150" or at least 120" (my screen size)? Nice video btw, I liked the "I Dream of Jeannie" cut in the editing (was a film editor myself for 30 years 🤓).


----------



## luisalbertokid

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Sorry is BD blueray disk?
> So zidoo will make my 4k disk movies go all to LLDV like a HDfury will. Does zidoo do this automatically? I have read alot on the HD Fury and there is alot of tweaking and settings to do. So zidoo is more a automatic version of it?
> I'm not to fussed with my streaming content to be the best quality possible.
> But I am after the best sharpness 4k wise possible which one would be better Apple4kTV or shield pro?
> 
> Cheers


The Zidoo uses the Dolby VS10 Engine that tone maps everything to DV, even plain old SDR/BT709, and does it quite well according to reviews. Check this one: zidoo-z9x
There are lots of video reviews on YouTube also.


----------



## MOLTOV

ProjectionHead said:


> Formovie Theater & 150" Spectra Projection Vantage UST ALR Screen 🤯


Any plans for other sizes? 130"-140"?


----------



## mirzank

Dave Harper said:


> I just got a ForMovie here to test for awhile. I’ll get reacquainted with it. I don’t recall the details of those settings.


Will you be doing a formovie vs Epson ls800 comparison? I believe you were working on an ls800 review


----------



## 3sprit

mirzank said:


> Really ?? Wow mine is so quiet I can’t even tell if it’s on or off


Yes, I can clearly hear the vibrations of the fans and a cyclic noise. I don't know if I can find anyone who can open it and check if it is possible to change the four fans.
P.S. I can hear it from 5 meters away.


----------



## 3sprit

madmax777 said:


> can you tell me the LAN port of the projector is 100 or 1000?


100


----------



## 3sprit

MarcusD777 said:


> Same here. My Theater is the quietest projector I have ever owned. You may have something up with yours for sure. Are the fans being blocked at all on your Theater?


No, the projector is free on all sides.


----------



## ProjectionHead

luisalbertokid said:


> Formovie at 150"? I've read people on this thread claiming it's not supposed to go beyond 100" because of focus issues. Does it hold well at 150" or at least 120" (my screen size)? Nice video btw, I liked the "I Dream of Jeannie" cut in the editing (was a film editor myself for 30 years 🤓).


Thanks! My editor likes to have some fun with his cuts.
Video content looks really good but we have yet to run pattern generators on any of the 150” USTs to really see how they stack up.
On the to-do list to get done ASAP


----------



## ProjectionHead

Roderick Atkinson said:


> Any plans for other sizes? 130"-140"?


Yeah, they can be made as special order but the price will still be much closer to the 150” than the 120” since surfaces still need to be fused.


----------



## Dave Harper

mirzank said:


> Will you be doing a formovie vs Epson ls800 comparison? I believe you were working on an ls800 review


LS800 is being worked on. Other than that, ask the boss!


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> Will you be doing a formovie vs Epson ls800 comparison?


We filmed footage to put side by side and incorporate into our shootout series.
Hopefully will be published in the next 2 weeks


----------



## mirzank

3sprit said:


> Yes, I can clearly hear the vibrations of the fans and a cyclic noise. I don't know if I can find anyone who can open it and check if it is possible to change the four fans.
> P.S. I can hear it from 5 meters away.


Then it’s an issue with your unit I suspect. I doubt all four fans would be defective though probably an issue with just one. 
Mine is about 3.5 meters from my couch, and it’s quiet enough that a few times I didn’t know if it was on or off, got up to check and still couldn’t tell if it was on unless I was right next to it.

Unless it’s an option to send it back for free depending on where you bought it, I think it’s quite easy to open. Someone even did a video to adjust the focus ring you could follow it to see how to open it and then do some troubleshooting on where the sound is coming from. Depends on how handy you are with a screwdriver though.


----------



## MOLTOV

ProjectionHead said:


> Yeah, they can be made as special order but the price will still be much closer to the 150” than the 120” since surfaces still need to be fused.


Thanks! Still good news!


----------



## esegan

luisalbertokid said:


> Formovie at 150"? I've read people on this thread claiming it's not supposed to go beyond 100" because of focus issues. Does it hold well at 150" or at least 120" (my screen size)? Nice video btw, I liked the "I Dream of Jeannie" cut in the editing (was a film editor myself for 30 years 🤓).


Given the feedback on the forums, indeed, fengmi has a lot of instances with poor focus, especially in the far corners. I can assume that this is an unfinished lens design, it cannot work at the entire range and it jams or a weak motor. My T1 global also has a focus problem and especially in the far corners.
I immediately had 3pcs fengmi C2, 2pcs. had the same problem, the focus couldn't get to the best sharpness. But the third copy had excellent sharpness, the far corners were very sharp like the near ones. The correct focus works like this, for example +50/+49/+48..../0 (best sharpness)/-1/ -2/...-10, the focus should reach the best sharpness, and then it should in the same direction is already losing sharpness. But for many, the focus cannot reach 0 (better sharpness) and work like this +50/+49/+48..../+5, that is, the lens jams.
But there is a way out, although for many it is doubtful or difficult and most likely will lead to loss of warranty, but it will give an excellent result, you will get good sharpness.
Courageous and self-confident members of the forum remove the top cover from the projector and use their hands to help the lens turn the jammed (squeezed) focus ring further to the end to better sharpness. Formovie Fengmi T1
I haven't done this yet. I already wrote a Fengmi claim and asked what would happen to the guarantee if I opened the seal.


----------



## Nazgul

esegan said:


> Given the feedback on the forums, indeed, fengmi has a lot of instances with poor focus, especially in the far corners. I can assume that this is an unfinished lens design, it cannot work at the entire range and it jams or a weak motor. My T1 global also has a focus problem and especially in the far corners.
> I immediately had 3pcs fengmi C2, 2pcs. had the same problem, the focus couldn't get to the best sharpness. But the third copy had excellent sharpness, the far corners were very sharp like the near ones. The correct focus works like this, for example +50/+49/+48..../0 (best sharpness)/-1/ -2/...-10, the focus should reach the best sharpness, and then it should in the same direction is already losing sharpness. But for many, the focus cannot reach 0 (better sharpness) and work like this +50/+49/+48..../+5, that is, the lens jams.
> But there is a way out, although for many it is doubtful or difficult and most likely will lead to loss of warranty, but it will give an excellent result, you will get good sharpness.
> Courageous and self-confident members of the forum remove the top cover from the projector and use their hands to help the lens turn the jammed (squeezed) focus ring further to the end to better sharpness. Formovie Fengmi T1
> I haven't done this yet. I already wrote a Fengmi claim and asked what would happen to the guarantee if I opened the seal.


I've heard the same, it's unclear why they didn't just fix the design...


----------



## luisalbertokid

esegan said:


> Given the feedback on the forums, indeed, fengmi has a lot of instances with poor focus, especially in the far corners. I can assume that this is an unfinished lens design, it cannot work at the entire range and it jams or a weak motor. My T1 global also has a focus problem and especially in the far corners.
> I immediately had 3pcs fengmi C2, 2pcs. had the same problem, the focus couldn't get to the best sharpness. But the third copy had excellent sharpness, the far corners were very sharp like the near ones. The correct focus works like this, for example +50/+49/+48..../0 (best sharpness)/-1/ -2/...-10, the focus should reach the best sharpness, and then it should in the same direction is already losing sharpness. But for many, the focus cannot reach 0 (better sharpness) and work like this +50/+49/+48..../+5, that is, the lens jams.
> But there is a way out, although for many it is doubtful or difficult and most likely will lead to loss of warranty, but it will give an excellent result, you will get good sharpness.
> Courageous and self-confident members of the forum remove the top cover from the projector and use their hands to help the lens turn the jammed (squeezed) focus ring further to the end to better sharpness. Formovie Fengmi T1
> I haven't done this yet. I already wrote a Fengmi claim and asked what would happen to the guarantee if I opened the seal.


But is this a "deal-breaker" issue (like "omg it's totally defocused!") or a minor problem that is visible only with test patterns?


----------



## 3sprit

Instead of being "10" it is "7".


----------



## RazB

luisalbertokid said:


> But is this a "deal-breaker" issue (like "omg it's totally defocused!") or a minor problem that is visible only with test patterns?


Probably not all units are equal, but from my own experience using my unit, it is not as noticeable when watching content.
Still annoys me I must say, and once you have some UI showing up, graphics or text, the problem is visible right away.
I used to have a 1080p DLP projector (which by now is at least ten years old) and it's funny to think in some way it was "sharper". Of course it was a long throw projector so it is a different beast.
The Formovie Theater does show better detail in comparison, the resolution is still 4 time than FHD, yet the optics do leave room for desire.

I would say even the relatively focused area could be better.
As @esegan said, the focusing just doesn't reach where it should, it gets "jammed", just stops some steps from the ideal focusing position.



esegan said:


> Given the feedback on the forums, indeed, fengmi has a lot of instances with poor focus, especially in the far corners. I can assume that this is an unfinished lens design, it cannot work at the entire range and it jams or a weak motor. My T1 global also has a focus problem and especially in the far corners.
> I immediately had 3pcs fengmi C2, 2pcs. had the same problem, the focus couldn't get to the best sharpness. But the third copy had excellent sharpness, the far corners were very sharp like the near ones. The correct focus works like this, for example +50/+49/+48..../0 (best sharpness)/-1/ -2/...-10, the focus should reach the best sharpness, and then it should in the same direction is already losing sharpness. But for many, the focus cannot reach 0 (better sharpness) and work like this +50/+49/+48..../+5, that is, the lens jams.
> But there is a way out, although for many it is doubtful or difficult and most likely will lead to loss of warranty, but it will give an excellent result, you will get good sharpness.
> Courageous and self-confident members of the forum remove the top cover from the projector and use their hands to help the lens turn the jammed (squeezed) focus ring further to the end to better sharpness. Formovie Fengmi T1
> I haven't done this yet. I already wrote a Fengmi claim and asked what would happen to the guarantee if I opened the seal.


This is very tempting, this guy's results are very impressive! But this projector isn't exactly cheap and voiding the warranty doesn't sound like the best option.
Please let us know what Fengmi's response is.


----------



## jeff9n

luisalbertokid said:


> Formovie at 150"? I've read people on this thread claiming it's not supposed to go beyond 100" because of focus issues. Does it hold well at 150" or at least 120" (my screen size)? Nice video btw, I liked the "I Dream of Jeannie" cut in the editing (was a film editor myself for 30 years 🤓).


I have used T1 on a 150-inch and 165-inch screen. It's an immersive viewing experience at home. I wouldn't worry about the corner focus if it is being used mainly for movies.


----------



## luisalbertokid

jeff9n said:


> I have used T1 on a 150-inch and 165-inch screen. It's an immersive viewing experience at home. I wouldn't worry about the corner focus if it is being used mainly for movies.


That's very good to hear, thank you. What kind of screen material do you use?


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Thanks Dave for the replies.

Anyone here with a Zidoo can you post some pictures of your formovie. I would like to see these 2 paired together.

In this thread I have seen alot of talk on screens I got a Epson ELPSC35. ALR/CLR 1.3gain I'm in a bat cave. anyone with knowledge know if this screen is decent?

I'm in Australia 🇦🇺 wish I was in USA 🇺🇸 so many things so much h more accessible there.

Thanks guys.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jeff9n said:


> I have used T1 on a 150-inch and 165-inch screen. It's an immersive viewing experience at home. I wouldn't worry about the corner focus if it is being used mainly for movies.


Sounds like a non UST ALR screen that you are using in a light controlled environment. Still - if you like the 150" and 165" image wit the GT1 - - that's says a lot.


----------



## MarcusD777

jeff9n said:


> I have used T1 on a 150-inch and 165-inch screen. It's an immersive viewing experience at home. I wouldn't worry about the corner focus if it is being used mainly for movies.


How was your corner focus on 150"+ screen? I am using a 135" and I'm not getting full focus even after warm up. Its soft in the top left and top right corner as well as slightly in the middle right side I am going to spend some time re-aligning and centering projector again to ensure it's not an inherent issue with the focus ring on this unit. I will also check to ensure if I can get closer to full focus at smaller sizes under 135".


----------



## Nazgul

MarcusD777 said:


> How was your corner focus on 150"+ screen? I am using a 135" and I'm not getting full focus even after warm up. Its soft in the top left and top right corner as well as slightly in the middle right side I am going to spend some time re-aligning and centering projector again to ensure it's not an inherent issue with the focus ring on this unit. I will also check to ensure if I can get closer to full focus at smaller sizes under 135".


I think it's soft in those corners at larger screen size (say over 120") due to what I'd call a physical design flaw in the unit, the person above talks about opening the unit so you can manually dial in a better focus. Maybe some units are better than others, but yeah I think you may be stuck. :-/


----------



## jeff9n

luisalbertokid said:


> That's very good to hear, thank you. What kind of screen material do you use?


I am using Silver Ticket White Matte screen with 1.1 gain


----------



## jeff9n

MarcusD777 said:


> How was your corner focus on 150"+ screen? I am using a 135" and I'm not getting full focus even after warm up. Its soft in the top left and top right corner as well as slightly in the middle right side I am going to spend some time re-aligning and centering projector again to ensure it's not an inherent issue with the focus ring on this unit. I will also check to ensure if I can get closer to full focus at smaller sizes under 135".


I did not notice any issue with the corner focus. Maybe it's because most of my viewing are movies.
Here are some photos that I took using the Chinese version of T1


----------



## madmax777

bad focus in the corners, clearly visible on the wikipedia page


----------



## 3sprit

Here it is not in focus even below 120" 🤷‍♂️
I would like to see the photos of the upper left corner and the cross in the center, as well as knowing the screen size, of the users.


----------



## JackB

When I play a DV movie from my Firestick the on screen initial statement in upper right hand corner says DV 2160. However, I cannot find where to set it for DV Bright or DV Dark. Is there something awry?


----------



## RazB

3sprit said:


> Here it is not in focus even below 120" 🤷‍♂️
> I would like to see the photos of the upper left corner and the cross in the center, as well as knowing the screen size, of the users.


I have a shot of a focus chart here:
Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
135" 1.1 gain matte white


----------



## luisalbertokid

RazB said:


> I have a shot of a focus chart here:
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 135" 1.1 gain matte white


But when watching normal content (let's say a movie) it must be hard to notice the focus issue, since there are hardly important information/details on the corners of any image of any movie, right? Also lots of movies have black bars on the top and bottom, so again not an issue.


----------



## Nazgul

luisalbertokid said:


> But when watching normal content (let's say a movie) it must be hard to notice the focus issue, since there are hardly important information/details on the corners of any image of any movie, right? Also lots of movies have black bars on the top and bottom, so again not an issue.


My concern are games, lots of games throw stuff into the corners. :-/


----------



## RazB

luisalbertokid said:


> But when watching normal content (let's say a movie) it must be hard to notice the focus issue, since there are hardly important information/details on the corners of any image of any movie, right? Also lots of movies have black bars on the top and bottom, so again not an issue.


You are right. It is not as noticeable when watching content.
Still annoying to see the blurriness when UI shows up, text and graphics.
Actually when watching letterboxed films with black bars the problem does show up as the edge of the to top bar (in my case mostly in the top left corner) is blurred. Not the end of the world, it's not such a big distraction, but this is still a fault on Formovie's side.
The focus mechanism jams and cannot reach it's ideal position. The guy who opened up is T1 proved it and showed focusing can in fact be much improved by pushing the focus ring beyond the end point (which to me doesn't seem like the intended end point, it just that the mechanism jams at that point).


----------



## clipghost

So do ALL the Formovie Globals have this focus issue? Would it make you switch to another brand?


----------



## RazB

clipghost said:


> So do ALL the Formovie Globals have this focus issue? Would it make you switch to another brand?


It seems some are better and some are worse.

Overall the projector performs very well in terms of colour, contrast, black levels and brightness (though there are brighter ones of course). The picture is impressive.
For it's price it does deliver very good specs, yet the focus issue is a shame, especially since it could actually focus better, it just cannot reach it's full range due to the mechanism problem (as it seems), but as I said, it isn't that noticeable when watching content and I still enjoy the projector.
So I am disappointed with the soft top corners, I wish and know it could be better, but can still enjoy the projector's very nice picture. I don't find it bad enough to be distracting while watching content, just with graphics and text.


----------



## 3sprit

RazB said:


> I have a shot of a focus chart here:


I'd rather see the word "focus" and the central "cross" because we all have it… 😉


----------



## RazB

3sprit said:


> I'd rather see the word "focus" and the central "cross" because we all have it… 😉


Haha. Understood 
Unfortunately I will be away from home for about a month, so it will be a while before I can take a new picture.
I do have a couple of pictures I took of just the two top corners.
You can see that the top left is worse and softer than the top right.


----------



## JimBob1971

Nazgul said:


> My concern are games, lots of games throw stuff into the corners. :-/


I think games info would still be legible. Just slightly blurry as can be seen from some of the screenshots posted.


----------



## kraine

I take pictures of all the Formovie that I calibrate here are the differences between the last 3 that passed through my house with the upper left corner of the integrated focus test pattern.
I limited myself to these 3 examples because otherwise the comparative image would have been unreadable but we are far from the example of RazB who in my opinion did not adjust well, either the position of the camera, or the focus.
Two points to specify, in projection of films or series the image is without defect and the internal test pattern is not the best way to check the sharpness of the camera better to use the test patterns of 4K resolution of the suite avsforums.
As dave says the image accuracy improves with the temperature rise of the camera.


----------



## RazB

kraine said:


> I take pictures of all the Formovie that I calibrate here are the differences between the last 3 that passed through my house with the upper left corner of the integrated focus test pattern.
> I limited myself to these 3 examples because otherwise the comparative image would have been unreadable but we are far from the example of RazB who in my opinion did not adjust well, either the position of the camera, or the focus.
> Two points to specify, in projection of films or series the image is without defect and the internal test pattern is not the best way to check the sharpness of the camera better to use the test patterns of 4K resolution of the suite avsforums.
> As dave says the image accuracy improves with the temperature rise of the camera.


These examples look considerably better than mine for sure, especially the first one which is even sharper than the other two.

My projector is aligned to the screen the best I could, I only needed very mineral keystone adjustments to get it perfect with the frame. So I don't think there should be something off with my setup.
As you said, after it warms up it does get sharper, but at the point I took the picture it was running for at least 20 minutes, could be even 30.

When I adjust focus I have to go all the way to the left. When I reach a certain point it seems the focus jumps back a little to the other direction (as if I would go to the right). So I have to stop as close as I can without reaching the point it slightly jumps back.
This is really the best I could do.
Would love to hear your input on the matter @kraine .


----------



## Nazgul

kraine said:


> I take pictures of all the Formovie that I calibrate here are the differences between the last 3 that passed through my house with the upper left corner of the integrated focus test pattern.
> I limited myself to these 3 examples because otherwise the comparative image would have been unreadable but we are far from the example of RazB who in my opinion did not adjust well, either the position of the camera, or the focus.
> Two points to specify, in projection of films or series the image is without defect and the internal test pattern is not the best way to check the sharpness of the camera better to use the test patterns of 4K resolution of the suite avsforums.
> As dave says the image accuracy improves with the temperature rise of the camera.


First off thanks for testing these out on 3 different Formovie's and giving us the results!

With regards to the issue it's my understanding is that it's only at larger screen sizes that the corner focusing issue comes into play. If this is the case it would be helpful to know what screen size the images above were taken on, also given your warm-up comment I'm assuming these were all taken 30+minutes after projector was turned on?

Ideally it'd be nice to say have taken projector #2 above (blurriest) and taken that at 100, 120, 135 and say 150 and shown the image. As an example say at 100 it looks great, 120 slightly worse, 135 and 150 both worse but identical.

With regards to quality control, my sincere hope is they read these forums or someone is communicating this back to them as it appears to be a physical issue with the case+lens that is causing this. If so one would think it'd be a much easier fix on their end than say a limitation of the actual lens itself.


----------



## esegan

*RazB*
You're right, when the focus gets to the end, it bounces back (back) about 1-1.5mm, so you notice a deterioration in sharpness. The lens does not wedge, it reaches the end and bounces by 1-1.5mm, but after bouncing back, you can still turn it by 1-1.5mm by hand, which he did and the sharpness improves slightly. But I am sure that the lens does not reach the best sharpness, it does not reach the best focus.


----------



## Nazgul

FYI the prior post came up for me in what I think is Russian, if you right click it Google can translate it to English.


----------



## 3sprit

RazB said:


> Haha. Understood


Thank you


----------



## 3sprit

I suppose Grégory uses a 110" screen (Vividstorm CLR).


----------



## EvilEuro

ProjectionHead said:


> I got one of these screens from them and gave my thoughts in another thread.
> It’s promising, but def not ready for mass market. They make it by putting “tiles” together and you can see the seams and that the tiles aren’t uniform.
> Hoping they advance this soon and I stay in touch with them.


@ProjectionHead - Do you have a link to that review? I'm curious to see it. 

The screen is interesting and I'm big enough of a dork that I would be willing to take a chance on it, especially in our non-batcave. But only in a frame since I have to mount 8" to 10" off of our wall to account for curtain rods.


----------



## rjyap

Here’s my focus on 114” matte screen top left and top right corner.


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Ok for me with my formovie I've been watching LOTR and the whole time I looked pretty good I used setting from this forum to dial in and stuff.
But to me it still didn't feel like the images of the movie was as good as it would be.
I bought new 8k cables $35 each and now.....
Jesus's it's total insane I see so much more detail and the colours and even better!!
It was Like going from HD to 4K again.

And yes I was always using a 4k disc in my Sony x700. The LOTR pack in 4k doesn't come with standard. And I used the extended disc.
Now i am blown away with my formovie and I still got to hook it up to my XMC2 aswell this was just cable changes for my results and my formovie isn't 100% positioned properly cuz I mounted screen to high so waiting for professionals to come and fix it. Don't want to put more holes in my sound abolition plaster


----------



## Nazgul

rjyap said:


> Here’s my focus on 114” matte screen top left and top right corner.
> View attachment 3345975
> 
> View attachment 3345974


So yours likes pretty well dialed in at 114", I do see some blurriness but not a lot. Can you like move the projector back and down so it projects say a 150" image then check the corners?


----------



## ProjectionHead

EvilEuro said:


> @ProjectionHead - Do you have a link to that review? I'm curious to see it.
> 
> The screen is interesting and I'm big enough of a dork that I would be willing to take a chance on it, especially in our non-batcave. But only in a frame since I have to mount 8" to 10" off of our wall to account for curtain rods.


I never wrote a review, we “reviewed” it in office to consider carrying it on the website.
It also did not come with a frame and was only able to be unrolled and attached to the wall with magnets.
I’d love to hear your thoughts if you go through with it.


----------



## Nazgul

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Jesus's it's total insane I see so much more detail and the colours and even better!!
> It was Like going from HD to 4K again.


Is it full of stars?


----------



## rjyap

Nazgul said:


> So yours likes pretty well dialed in at 114", I do see some blurriness but not a lot. Can you like move the projector back and down so it projects say a 150" image then check the corners?


My focus range is pretty good as I can still adjust it from blurry to sharp then blurry again. Which could cover even bigger screen area.


----------



## RazB

rjyap said:


> Here’s my focus on 114” matte screen top left and top right corner.
> View attachment 3345975
> 
> View attachment 3345974


Wow! This is far better than mine.
The fact you can go pass the sharp focusing point means it actually works as it should with your unit.
Would be very interesting to see if this still applies when projecting on a larger screen, but I know I wouldn't like to take my projector out of alignment just to test this.

@kraine 
Did the projectors you tested also went beyond the focusing point?
Mine simply doesn't reach that point and bounces.


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Nazgul said:


> Is it full of stars?


I can put up a pic of any part of LOTR if you wanna see it. Maybe mine is just now how it should be.... now on par with everyone else here.

I'm going to plug it all into my XMC2 now see if it's a step higher.


----------



## zoomx2

Not sure global version comes with autofocus or not. Anyone tried to install Projectivy Launcher, go to the engineer set to set up autofocus. I own a T1 and use autofocus once in a while to fine-tune the focus.


----------



## 3sprit

There is no Projectivy Launcher app for the Theater 🤷‍♂️


----------



## SmSnko

Hello! Today i received formovie theater global version. Projector is really good.

I am using projector on white wall, it will be huge difference if i buy screen? White or grey? For example this one - Aeon CLR® Series Sorry but this is my first projector.

To focus... I tried to adjust the focus, but sometimes I had the feeling that nothing changes. Do you just pressing the left or right arrow and watching when the image is sharp as possible in the corners?

thank you for advice


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> Hello! Today i received formovie theater global version. Projector is really good.
> 
> I am using projector on white wall, it will be huge difference if i buy screen? White or grey? For example this one - Aeon CLR® Series Sorry but this is my first projector.
> 
> To focus... I tried to adjust the focus, but sometimes I had the feeling that nothing changes. Do you just pressing the left or right arrow and watching when the image is sharp as possible in the corners?
> 
> thank you for advice


Congratulations on your new purchase!

If you use your projector in a fully light controlled environment or just at night or even better, in a bat cave, you don't have to use a special (and expensive) CLR / ALR screen. Those kind of screens can still provide some benefits over "regular" matte white screens, but again, if you don't need to face ambient light it isn't as necessary and you can save quite a bit.
My screen is also from the Aeon series, but a 1.1 gain matte white (so non-CLR).
If you are willing to spend quite some more or want to use the projector with some ambient light then please tell us of the conditions in your room and I'm sure some more knowledgeable guys here would be able to give you a recommendation.

As for focusing, you can see we had quite a discussion about it in the last couple of pages here.
On the focus screen you do focus by pressing on the remote to the right or to the left. You can hold it pressed down, you don't have to keep clicking, the different might not be so obvious right away, but if you hold it long enough in one direction you will notice the adjustment.
In my case I have to go all the way to the left (until it won't move/change anymore). The problem with my unit is that even when I reach there I'm still not getting completely good focus (more noticeable on the top corners, especially on the top left in my case).
I got the impression that other owners are experiencing some softness in the corners as well and it's kind of the way it is with this specific UST projector, it just varies a bit form unit to unit. However according to what other members here said and showed on photos, better focus should be achievable and you can see some pretty sharp corners in their photos.
Maybe your case is similar to mine, the focusing system/mechanism simply won't reach the correct position. Usually lenses should a focus range which can go *beyond* the correct focus, so you can see it going into focus, then the passing the point and going out of focus. A member here, @rjyap , said this is in fact how it works on his unit.

I'm awaiting a response on the matter from my dealer.


----------



## SmSnko

Thank you. I have projector in big room, but with only 3 small windows, so there is not so much light from outside. I will use projector all day for example cartoons for my child and at night for movies. I can make bat cave too. So thats why i am thinking if it is huge different vs wall and cheaper sceen, and between cheaper screen and more expensive grey screen. And of course differences if i will watch movies in bat cave on wall, or it is still better buy screen for better image.


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> Thank you. I have projector in big room, but with only 3 small windows, so there is not so much light from outside. I will use projector all day for example cartoons for my child and at night for movies. I can make bat cave too. So thats why i am thinking if it is huge different vs wall and cheaper sceen, and between cheaper screen and more expensive grey screen. And of course differences if i will watch movies in bat cave on wall, or it is still better buy screen for better image.


I would still vote for a screen when it comes to UST projection. It has to be a fixed screen stretched out nice and flat, or a motorized tensioned screen. Imperfections on the surface will show very clearly due to the steep angle of projection.
Basically you really need a perfectly flat surface, so theoretically, if your wall is perfectly flat you could go for it, maybe get a special paint to improve the picture, but from my experience perfectly flat walls are extremely rare to non-existent.


----------



## zoomx2

3sprit said:


> There is no Projectivy Launcher app for the Theater 🤷‍♂️


Not in the Google store?


----------



## Brajesh

The original version by @spocky12 is there, but not the new one. After jumping through some hoops, was able to sideload the new one on my Global unit, but it only partially works (no engineering menu)...


----------



## jeff9n

leeroyagnello4 said:


> I can put up a pic of any part of LOTR if you wanna see it. Maybe mine is just now how it should be.... now on par with everyone else here.
> 
> I'm going to plug it all into my XMC2 now see if it's a step higher.


If you can, please post photos of LOTR with the original HDMI cable and the new 8K cable. Thanks!


----------



## SmSnko

From aeon series i found these two, cinewhite 1.3 gain or cinegrey 1.0 gain. Aeon Series
Price is 600 dollars for white or grey 120´. So which one do you prefer for formovie theather?


----------



## 3sprit

Brajesh said:


> but it only partially works (no engineering menu)...


So is it useless?


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> From aeon series i found these two, cinewhite 1.3 gain or cinegrey 1.0 gain. Aeon Series
> Price is 600 dollars for white or grey 120´. So which one do you prefer for formovie theather?


A 1.1 gain cinewhite 120" version is available: AR120WH2
It is not showing on their website for some reason, but this is the material which I chose for my screen.

1.3 gain sounds a bit high for UST, but I don't have any experience with it, maybe others can give you some input.
The cinegrey on the other hand might help a bit with keeping black levels a tad lower, but if you plan to use it with some ambient light then you better look into CLR / ALR.
Take in mind those are much lower gain, between 0.4 to 0.7, which would affect overall brightness, but help maintaining lower black levels.
My knowledge and experience are rather limited with those specialized materials, so I cannot make a specific recommendation.

I chose a "normal" screen, matte white 1.1 gain, for my room is completely light controlled and I couldn't justify the high cost of a CLR / ALR screen.


----------



## Ricoflashback

SmSnko said:


> Hello! Today i received formovie theater global version. Projector is really good.
> 
> I am using projector on white wall, it will be huge difference if i buy screen? White or grey? For example this one - Aeon CLR® Series Sorry but this is my first projector.
> 
> To focus... I tried to adjust the focus, but sometimes I had the feeling that nothing changes. Do you just pressing the left or right arrow and watching when the image is sharp as possible in the corners?
> 
> thank you for advice


Here’s my experience with a screen versus a white wall. Since we’re in an apartment with lots of ambient light before finding a house, I decided an ALR screen was needed. But since the space is limited - I can only fit a 100” size screen. Thinking that I might upgrade to a 120” screen in the future, I picked up the WEMAX 100” ALR screen, on sale, from Amazon for $399. I had it professionally installed for $150 - which was a great decision on my part as it was expertly put together and hung on the wall In an hour and a half.

Now, contrary to some opinions, I believe there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric as long as you don’t buy total junk. Yes - there are better frames, some that are black velvet wrapped and without the small clips on the corners of my WEMAX special that really aren’t noticeable when watching content. But performance wise, the picture is stone cold gorgeous. And maybe it’s just my eyes or getting used to the screen, but it appears even brighter after watching it for a couple of months. The off angle viewing is exceptional. When eating dinner, if we have the news on, we can see the screen clearly from our kitchen table some eight feet off to the right. Fast forward to today and the house we are looking at has a smaller, dedicated room where my existing screen will look just fine. I like that the WEMAX is much lighter than many of the more expensive screens and it’s easy to adjust the brackets.

Long story short - I believe you will see a major picture improvement with even a moderate or lower priced screen over a blank wall. Especially the black level and color pop. So I’d encourage you to consider an XY screen or many other screens suggested on this forum and other AVS Forums as it’s a wise investment.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Now, contrary to some opinions, I believe there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric as long as you don’t buy total junk.


… believes without actually seeing any other surface and after being shown images and explained the differences countless times.

It more like you *refuse* to believe there is a difference, have no experience to draw from other than this one screen and have made it a mission to continually espouse this opinion that isn’t based on any actual experience.

It’s really a shame you feel the need to continually state this over and over and we have to have this same song and dance where I have to warn people that your opinion regarding these surfaces is not based on anything empirical.

There is nothing wrong with your opinion that the Wemax screen is great, that’s an opinion you have made based on your experience, but to keep saying there is no difference between lenticular surfaces is flat out wrong and is absurd as saying there are no differences in regular ALR surfaces based on angular reflectivity or no differences in all uniformly diffuse surfaces.

Why are you so hell bent on spreading this “opinion” without actually having seen any other surfaces?

I know that you have stated several times that you can't see the differences in the image below somehow, but here is an example for everyone else in the thread (yet again) of different lenticular surfaces and their ALR rejection and black level performance due to the different layers and chemical's put on top of the lenticular base.











Ricoflashback said:


> I believe you will see a major picture improvement with even a moderate or lower priced screen over a blank wall.


Now this part, I certainly agree with.


----------



## leeroyagnello4

Ok I havnt swapped my cables to the original ones I believe I figured out the problem.
It's weird when I plugged my projector into XMC2 output and the 4k player into input of XMC2 I lost my image I was raving about.
I was able to get my color back but the image was still soft (didn't change any settings or colour) when I was play around I managed to reverse it get a clearer image but lost my color.
So I decided to not use XMC2 to retrace my steps and I still got same results as above.
Than I figures it out well i belive i did i got my sharp image back with the color. When I plugged the 4k player into XMC2 it was 1 Cable which is video/audio HDMI to XMC2 when I revererted (no xmc2) I remembered I had 1 cable in 4k player in the video/audio than my sound bar in the audio only output in my 4k player. Separating both allowing 18 full bandwidth for video and other Cable full bandwidth for atmos.
So I'm guessing for xmc2 to retain what I want I need a Cable in audio only slot?

How do you guys have your projector / 4k player hooked up to your AVR or processor?









This is bad image. Trust me doesn't look as good as this my Samsung S8 21 with 4k picture makes it look good.
I'm always use to 4K @ and since getting projector and screen noticed a softness to the 4k image. I thought it was my screen.
But it's not.









This is 4k image and my color at full bandwidth.
Also it's not just the image that I get when I do it this way my motion is smoother (without touching MEMC it's set to low)
And when in LOTR horses charge at white city with the fast motions it gets choppy and images get tearing can't really make out what's happening because of it but all that is not fixed it's reduced to about 20% loss of detail in these scenes instead of 80%. However the 20% is more like motion blurr because the camera is close to the action and the movements are so fast.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> … believes without actually seeing any other surface and after being shown images and explained the differences countless times.
> 
> It more like you *refuse* to believe there is a difference, have no experience to draw from other than this one screen and have made it a mission to continually espouse this opinion that isn’t based on any actual experience.
> 
> It’s really a shame you feel the need to continually state this over and over and we have to have this same song and dance where I have to warn people that your opinion regarding these surfaces is not based on anything empirical.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with your opinion that the Wemax screen is great, that’s an opinion you have made based on your experience, but to keep saying there is no difference between lenticular surfaces is flat out wrong and is absurd as saying there are no differences in regular ALR surfaces based on angular reflectivity or no differences in all uniformly diffuse surfaces.
> 
> Why are you so hell bent on spreading this “opinion” without actually having seen any other surfaces?
> 
> I know that you have stated several times that you can't see the differences in the image below somehow, but here is an example for everyone else in the thread (yet again) of different lenticular surfaces and their ALR rejection and black level performance due to the different layers and chemical's put on top of the lenticular base.
> View attachment 3346538
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now this part, I certainly agree with.


You continually misstate my opinion. Repeat, repeat, repeat - - since it's not registering with you. My statement is that there is not much difference in lenticular screen fabric in terms of technology and purpose. You are flat out wrong and continue to push a narrative that you have to buy a "Spectra" screen (or some other more expensive screen) compared to other choices in the market like the WEMAX or XY Screens. The OP was wanting a lower cost solution. I provided that. You didn't - - and never will.

P.S. - before you cast stones on glass houses, why not get a WEMAX screen sample and put it on your grid?


----------



## iitywygms

edit


----------



## iitywygms

ProjectionHead said:


> I know that you have stated several times that you can't see the differences in the image below somehow, but here is an example for everyone else in the thread (yet again) of different lenticular surfaces and their ALR rejection and black level performance due to the different layers and chemical's put on top of the lenticular base.
> View attachment 3346538


Do you have a high resolution picture you can share of this image?
I purchased elite screen clr for this projector. Great customer service btw.
But I have been researching other screens and have read all kinds of opinions. If I could see this picture in high res I hope it will help me justify the money spent on the elite screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> You continually misstate my opinion. Repeat, repeat, repeat - - since it's not registering with you. My statement is that there is not much difference in lenticular screen fabric in terms of technology and purpose.


That is not at all what you said - you verbatim said *"I believe there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric as long as you don’t buy total junk." *You never said "technology or purpose" and are injecting this after the fact after being called out, yet again for being wrong and your opinion being not based on actual experience. I am not misstating anything and your actual words are very clearly registering with me, as being wrong and based on no actual experience.



Ricoflashback said:


> You are flat out wrong and continue to push a narrative that you have to buy a "Spectra" screen (or some other more expensive screen) compared to other choices in the market like the WEMAX or XY Screens.


Again, *you* are obviously not comprehending what I have continually said. This is not about brand A vs Brand B and I have never told anyone that they *need* to buy a specific brand. This is about your nonsensical, continual claims that there are no differences between lenticular surfaces - a belief that is not based on you having any actual experience with any screen other than the one you have right now. 



Ricoflashback said:


> The OP was wanting a lower cost solution. I provided that. You didn't - - and never will.


The OP actually asked about if a screen would be a huge difference than projecting on the wall. This is exactly what they posted to which you replied with your belief "*there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric"







*

Even *if* they did ask for a lower cost option than the CLR they mentioned - your "belief" regarding the lack of differences in lenticular materials is still wrong. I'm not replying to your bad information to try and change your mind, but to educate those who come here and may see your high post count in this thread as meaning your views on lenticular surfaces is somehow accurate.



Ricoflashback said:


> P.S. - before you cast stones on glass houses, why not get a WEMAX screen sample and put it on your grid?


What kind of nonsense statement is that regarding casting stones and glass houses? I actually have multiple samples and full size screens and know for a fact, from experience and evidence that there *are* differences between them and their performance. I don't need to get a Wemax screen sample (which of course, they won't provide) to add to my grid.

Again, I am not saying Wemax (or any brand for that matter) is good or bad, better or worse - I am saying that there *are* differences between the different surfaces, which the grid very clearly demonstrates and it's getting really old having this conversation over and over because you feel the need to constantly say otherwise with no basis to do so.


----------



## ProjectionHead

iitywygms said:


> Do you have a high resolution picture you can share of this image?
> I purchased elite screen clr for this projector. Great customer service btw.
> But I have been researching other screens and have read all kinds of opinions. If I could see this picture in high res I hope it will help me justify the money spent on the elite screen.


DM me your email address # and I will email you the highest resolution that I have of it. Also, include your order # so that I can flag you as an AVS Forum VIP .
Thanks!


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> That is not at all what you said - you verbatim said *"I believe there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric as long as you don’t buy total junk." *You never said "technology or purpose" and are injecting this after the fact after being called out, yet again for being wrong and your opinion being not based on actual experience. I am not misstating anything and your actual words are very clearly registering with me, as being wrong and based on no actual experience.
> 
> 
> Again, *you* are obviously not comprehending what I have continually said. This is not about brand A vs Brand B and I have never told anyone that they *need* to buy a specific brand. This is about your nonsensical, continual claims that there are no differences between lenticular surfaces - a belief that is not based on you having any actual experience with any screen other than the one you have right now.
> 
> 
> The OP actually asked about if a screen would be a huge difference than projecting on the wall. This is exactly what they posted to which you replied with your belief "*there isn’t much difference in the actual lenticular screen fabric"
> View attachment 3346599
> *
> 
> Even *if* they did ask for a lower cost option than the CLR they mentioned - your "belief" regarding the lack of differences in lenticular materials is still wrong. I'm not replying to your bad information to try and change your mind, but to educate those who come here and may see your high post count in this thread as meaning your views on lenticular surfaces is somehow accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of nonsense statement is that regarding casting stones and glass houses? I actually have multiple samples and full size screens and know for a fact, from experience and evidence that there *are* differences between them and their performance. I don't need to get a Wemax screen sample (which of course, they won't provide) to add to my grid.
> 
> Again, I am not saying Wemax (or any brand for that matter) is good or bad, better or worse - I am saying that there *are* differences between the different surfaces, which the grid very clearly demonstrates and it's getting really old having this conversation over and over because you feel the need to constantly say otherwise with no basis to do so.


I'll end it this way - - you'll never change and will continue to push more expensive screens. I'll continue to post my experiences (and I hope other posters will, as well) on lower cost solutions outside of the Spectra and other higher priced screens you sell. It's unfortunate, Brian, that you are so headstrong but it is what it is. 

For those users who don't have the budget for a higher priced screen - - you can find more than adequate screen options. Don't be buffaloed into buying a $2K screen and think that the performance will be greatly better than lower cost screens.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> I'll end it this way - - you'll never change and will continue to push more expensive screens. I'll continue to post my experiences (and I hope other posters will, as well) on lower cost solutions outside of the Spectra and other higher priced screens you sell. It's unfortunate, Brian, that you are so headstrong but it is what it is.
> 
> For those users who don't have the budget for a higher priced screen - - you can find more than adequate screen options. Don't be buffaloed into buying a $2K screen and think that the performance will be greatly better than lower cost screens.


Again, this is baloney and you should really cut this nonsense out already. I don't *push* anything and If I was only pushing "higher priced screens" it would be Stewart Filmscreen or Screen Innovations which are at the highest end of the spectrum. When people ask my opinion, I provide it and usually that opinion includes items in the mid-tier pricing as "bang for the buck" and that is based on *actual experience*.

Your attacks on my integrity are as baseless as your opinions in this matter.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Again, this is baloney and you should really cut this nonsense out already. I don't *push* anything and If I was only pushing "higher priced screens" it would be Stewart Filmscreen or Screen Innovations which are at the highest end of the spectrum. When people ask my opinion, I provide it and usually that opinion includes items in the mid-tier pricing as "bang for the buck" and that is based on *actual experience*.
> 
> Your attacks on my integrity are as baseless as your opinions in this matter.


They are not attacks on your integrity. Otherwise, I would never have bought anything from you. You've never had a WEMAX screen or other lower cost screen solutions for that matter. But don't worry - - let's hope there are no warranty problems with my unit because I'll never buy anything from you again. Out.

P.S. - you're on "Ignore" now so no need to respond.


----------



## ProjectionHead

SmSnko said:


> Hello! Today i received formovie theater global version. Projector is really good.
> 
> I am using projector on white wall, it will be huge difference if i buy screen? White or grey? For example this one - Aeon CLR® Series Sorry but this is my first projector.
> 
> To focus... I tried to adjust the focus, but sometimes I had the feeling that nothing changes. Do you just pressing the left or right arrow and watching when the image is sharp as possible in the corners?
> 
> thank you for advice


What is your viewing environment like? The Aeon CLR is an ambient light rejecting surface that would be good for moderate to bright environments with the Formovie Theater.
If you are in a more dedicated space, with treated ceilings, you may not need the CLR and other surfaces (0.7-1.0 gain) may be more appropriate.

For focus, hold down the button, sometime it takes a couple seconds to kick in and you see the focus change.


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Again, this is baloney and you should really cut this nonsense out already. I don't *push* anything and If I was only pushing "higher priced screens" it would be Stewart Filmscreen or Screen Innovations which are at the highest end of the spectrum. When people ask my opinion, I provide it and usually that opinion includes items in the mid-tier pricing as "bang for the buck" and that is based on *actual experience*.
> 
> Your attacks on my integrity are as baseless as your opinions in this matter.


So let me ask a consumer question. I want a good ALR screen for a living room type area but can't afford the Spectra. While I see the advantages, I just can't justify the cost when it is just as high as say a Vividstorm screen. What else could you recommend closer to let's say $1000 for a 120" screen? Because the brands that come up are constantly WeMax and XY Screens.


----------



## DesertDog

Is there any way to get "mini" control for the brightness and contrast in picture settings? The right sidebar UI is covering the 68-80 bars on the HDR test pattern that I have. It's making dialing it in more tedious than it needs to be. Either that or does anyone have a link to test patterns for HDR and DV that are not covered by the picture controls?


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> So let me ask a consumer question. I want a good ALR screen for a living room type area but can't afford the Spectra. While I see the advantages, I just can't justify the cost when it is just as high as say a Vividstorm screen. What else could you recommend closer to let's say $1000 for a 120" screen? Because the brands that come up are constantly WeMax and XY Screens.


Elite makes some less expensive options in their clr2/3/4 series surfaces. However as you can in the pic (as you can with the XY surfaces) there is a difference in performance as well.

FWIW- just because something is motorized, doesn’t necessarily make it better than a comparably priced, or more expensive fixed frame screen. 
For the money, there is no better bang for the buck in a floor rising, motorized screen (that I am familiar with) than the Vividstorm, but it is not a perfect product in my experience has horizontal lines, edge curl and other issues, let alone how the surface performs with ALR, black levels, tensioning, etc.
That being said, it is half the price of the comparable-yet-better Elite Screens option and is a great value for the money.


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Elite makes some less expensive options in their clr2/3/4 series surfaces. However as you can in the pic (as you can with the XY surfaces) there is a difference in performance as well.


Ok that is fine, I understand. Some people do not have a choice. And because of that, when I g on your website if I go look for 120" ALR screens for ultra short throws, the cheapest option you offer is the "Elite PFT123H-DS2 Pro Frame Thin DarkUST 2 - 123" for $2,293.00. That is not significantly less expensive. 

What other options do you have available for buyers? Are there stuff that are not listed on your website that one could inquire about?


----------



## ProjectionHead

I


clipghost said:


> Ok that is fine, I understand. Some people do not have a choice. And because of that, when I g on your website if I go look for 120" ALR screens for ultra short throws, the cheapest option you offer is the "Elite PFT123H-DS2 Pro Frame Thin DarkUST 2 - 123" for $2,293.00. That is not significantly less expensive.
> 
> What other options do you have available for buyers? Are there stuff that are not listed on your website that one could inquire about?


Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions for you on an ALR screen for UST at 120" that is $1,000 or less. There are other Elite Screens options that we do not carry for one reason or another, as well as other brands that I have no experience with and cannot speak on, that may work better for your budget. There is one person here who is loves their Wemax screen and insists its the same as more expensive items (without any first hand or even second hand knowledge) and the pictures they post look pretty good. That may be a good, low cost option to check out.

I'd suggest asking in the screens subforum here as well.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> That being said, it is half the price of the comparable-yet-better Elite Screens option and is a great value for the money.


Is there any news on WUPRO?


----------



## ProjectionHead

3sprit said:


> Is there any news on WUPRO?


I haven't received their floor rising screen yet. I believe they are going to send me a 100" in the very near future.


----------



## 3sprit

Thank you 🙂


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> Is there any way to get "mini" control for the brightness and contrast in picture settings? The right sidebar UI is covering the 68-80 bars on the HDR test pattern that I have. It's making dialing it in more tedious than it needs to be. Either that or does anyone have a link to test patterns for HDR and DV that are not covered by the picture controls?


Not that I am aware of, but that is a good feature suggestion as it does not need to be so large. I'll add it to the list for Formovie


----------



## Ricoflashback

Brilliant, vibrant colors from my GT1 with plain old cable signal. My iPad camera doesn’t do it justice.


----------



## MarcusD777

Ricoflashback said:


> Brilliant, vibrant colors from my GT1 with plain old cable signal. My iPad camera doesn’t do it justice.
> 
> View attachment 3346881


The colors on the Formovie are super impressive in both SDR and DV. I got a chance to finally fire up my Switch in SDR and Series X with DV (and a Vertex 2) and sweet baby jesus were the colors searing my retinas with pure vibrant glory. The most impressive thing is the ability to retain so much detail with the wide and vibrant color gamut. Playing Rocket League in DV on the Formovie compared to my LG HU85LA in DV is like playing an entirely new game. It also seems to tone map very well with whatever you throw at it.


----------



## DesertDog

I've been a little bit down on the GT1's picture quality but wow does the source make a difference. I started rewatching Firefly since it's ATF and we're at the 20th anniversary. It looks horrible. I'm guessing that the source quality for the Blu-rays we pretty low. Even though it's 1080p it's looking like it's scaled up way too much. I was thinking it was the scaling or something with the projector. I was honestly starting to get bummed on it. 

Then I played the Chameleon DV demo that Dolby put out. 🤯 Incredible what it looks like with this projector. I'm amazed at how good it and the other Dolby demos are looking on it. I'm going to have to try to take some pictures and see if they'll do it justice.


----------



## Joered101

leeroyagnello4 said:


> Ok for me with my formovie I've been watching LOTR and the whole time I looked pretty good I used setting from this forum to dial in and stuff.
> But to me it still didn't feel like the images of the movie was as good as it would be.
> I bought new 8k cables $35 each and now.....
> Jesus's it's total insane I see so much more detail and the colours and even better!!
> It was Like going from HD to 4K again.
> 
> And yes I was always using a 4k disc in my Sony x700. The LOTR pack in 4k doesn't come with standard. And I used the extended disc.
> Now i am blown away with my formovie and I still got to hook it up to my XMC2 aswell this was just cable changes for my results and my formovie isn't 100% positioned properly cuz I mounted screen to high so waiting for professionals to come and fix it. Don't want to put more holes in my sound abolition plaster


What cables were you using before?


----------



## Joered101

MarcusD777 said:


> The colors on the Formovie are super impressive in both SDR and DV. I got a chance to finally fire up my Switch in SDR and Series X with DV (and a Vertex 2) and sweet baby jesus were the colors searing my retinas with pure vibrant glory. The most impressive thing is the ability to retain so much detail with the wide and vibrant color gamut. Playing Rocket League in DV on the Formovie compared to my LG HU85LA in DV is like playing an entirely new game. It also seems to tone map very well with whatever you throw at it.


What are you playing rocket league on ti get Dolby vision? Can’t get it on my ps5


----------



## MarcusD777

Joered101 said:


> What are you playing rocket league on ti get Dolby vision? Can’t get it on my ps5


XBox Series X


----------



## SmSnko

I have problem with usb disk. I have 2TB hdd with movies. This hdd is working on LG smart tv but on formovie its not working. Just error Usb disc not suported. Do sou know what format and capacity formovie supports?


----------



## esegan

I know xiaomi and fengmi ultra short throw projectors have a lot of complaints about lens problem, poor sharpness, especially in far corners. In fact, the focal lens cannot even reach the best sharpness and rests on the limiter. Are there people who were able to adjust (repair a defective lens? No matter what model, their lenses are the same or almost the same in design. If you can share information or a video on how to repair (adjust) a lens? I did not see adjustable parts on the lens itself, there are only 1 bar on 1 shupupe, what does it set up?
I also met a lot of complaints that the far left corner is even more cloudy (not sharp). The photo shows the mounting bolts of the lens and they attract through the springs. I assume that there is a rubber gasket and if you tighten the bolts further, the lens will shift and the sharpness of the left corner can be improved. I don’t know whether the upper bolt needs to be screwed in or the lower one, so lens adjustment is only a trial method. Naturally, you need to make a note so that you can return the bolt back to the factory location.


----------



## Odysea

I believe someone already documented how to work around with the lens a bit. But I neither know how to do it, nor how much it helped.

But it is somewhere in this thread, or the Chinese T1 thread


----------



## Notrial

Odysea said:


> I believe someone already documented how to work around with the lens a bit. But I neither know how to do it, nor how much it helped.
> 
> But it is somewhere in this thread, or the Chinese T1 thread


This one I believe…









Formovie Fengmi T1


Guys i have really good news for whoever is brave enough!!! I fixed the top half the image being out of focus, i was brave enough to take the projector cover off to see whats the problem cause i suspected the lens focus ring is stuck or somthing at a certain point because i had that issue once...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Notrial

esegan said:


> I know xiaomi and fengmi ultra short throw projectors have a lot of complaints about lens problem, poor sharpness, especially in far corners. In fact, the focal lens cannot even reach the best sharpness and rests on the limiter. Are there people who were able to adjust (repair a defective lens? No matter what model, their lenses are the same or almost the same in design. If you can share information or a video on how to repair (adjust) a lens? I did not see adjustable parts on the lens itself, there are only 1 bar on 1 shupupe, what does it set up?
> I also met a lot of complaints that the far left corner is even more cloudy (not sharp). The photo shows the mounting bolts of the lens and they attract through the springs. I assume that there is a rubber gasket and if you tighten the bolts further, the lens will shift and the sharpness of the left corner can be improved. I don’t know whether the upper bolt needs to be screwed in or the lower one, so lens adjustment is only a trial method. Naturally, you need to make a note so that you can return the bolt back to the factory location.
> View attachment 3347356


Have you opened it or just showing other person photos?


----------



## leo0111127

RazB said:


> Haha. Understood
> Unfortunately I will be away from home for about a month, so it will be a while before I can take a new picture.
> I do have a couple of pictures I took of just the two top corners.
> You can see that the top left is worse and softer than the top right.


What's the projection size? 100 inch or 120 inch?


----------



## RazB

leo0111127 said:


> What's the projection size? 100 inch or 120 inch?


My screen is a 135 inch


----------



## SmSnko

So here are few photos, with lights on/off. Movies i will watch in bat cave thats no problem, but i want watch projector during the day too, but not often. So do i need alr/clr screen or just cinewhite from elite screens will be fine. In bat cave movies looks perfect on wall for me.

My goal is to make the movies look even better at night, and during the day to see a significant improvement in the image. So i should go for alr/1600 dollars or just cinewhite /550 dollars.

This is with lights on








This is with lights off
































And i have these 3 windows windows opossite to screen. 6m / 20 feet from projector.









Thank you.


----------



## Ricoflashback

SmSnko said:


> So here are few photos, with lights on/off. Movies i will watch in bat cave thats no problem, but i want watch projector during the day too, but not often. So do i need alr/clr screen or just cinewhite from elite screens will be fine. In bat cave movies looks perfect on wall for me.
> 
> My goal is to make the movies look even better at night, and during the day to see a significant improvement in the image. So i should go for alr/1600 dollars or just cinewhite /550 dollars.
> 
> This is with lights on
> View attachment 3347425
> 
> This is with lights off
> View attachment 3347430
> 
> View attachment 3347431
> 
> View attachment 3347432
> 
> View attachment 3347433
> 
> And i have these 3 windows windows opossite to screen. 6m / 20 feet from projector.
> View attachment 3347439
> 
> 
> Thank you.


ALR all the way if you want to watch anything with ambient light in the room. At night, the picture will astound you with the colors and black level. Even more so in a bat cave environment. Enjoy!


----------



## ProjectionHead

SmSnko said:


> So here are few photos, with lights on/off. Movies i will watch in bat cave thats no problem, but i want watch projector during the day too, but not often. So do i need alr/clr screen or just cinewhite from elite screens will be fine. In bat cave movies looks perfect on wall for me.
> 
> My goal is to make the movies look even better at night, and during the day to see a significant improvement in the image. So i should go for alr/1600 dollars or just cinewhite /550 dollars.
> 
> This is with lights on
> View attachment 3347425
> 
> This is with lights off
> View attachment 3347430
> 
> View attachment 3347431
> 
> View attachment 3347432
> 
> View attachment 3347433
> 
> And i have these 3 windows windows opossite to screen. 6m / 20 feet from projector.
> View attachment 3347439
> 
> 
> Thank you.


In that room, ALR for sure. Even with the lights off it is bright.


----------



## SmSnko

CLR aeon from elite screen is ok too? But in our country is this screen sold out. I am from Slovakia.


----------



## JackB

SmSnko said:


> CLR aeon from elite screen is ok too? But in our country is this screen sold out. I am from Slovakia.


The first thing you should do is put blackout curtains over the windows. Easy to do and inexpensive if you don’t care about looks. That will have much more impact on the picture than any screen for daytime viewing. Do that first and then look into a screen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

SmSnko said:


> CLR aeon from elite screen is ok too? But in our country is this screen sold out. I am from Slovakia.


Their original CLR is good, a step below their DarkUST in terms of ALR and black levels but much better then their clr2/3/4


----------



## zoomx2

Any no-brand ALR screen for UST is better than a wall.


----------



## SmSnko

Yes but it is impossible to buy some ALR or CLR 120 screen in my country. So i will see, thank you


----------



## DesertDog

On the top of of the projector there's the 10 dots near the back edge (circled in picture). Does anyone know what these are? Is it decorative or is there a sensor there? Trying to figure out if it's safe to have them covered. I think it is but figured I'd get 2nd opinions.


----------



## esegan

Odysea said:


> I believe someone already documented how to work around with the lens a bit. But I neither know how to do it, nor how much it helped.
> But it is somewhere in this thread, or the Chinese T1 thread


The man just shifted the focal lens a little with his fingers and improved the sharpness a little. But in reality, this did not solve the problem, the sharpness is still not the best possible, the lens must pass through the best sharpness and continue to lose sharpness. Either this is a limitation of the lens and does not match the parameters, or you can try to mechanically adjust the lens to a diagonal of more than 100 inches.


----------



## esegan

DesertDog said:


> On the top of of the projector there's the 10 dots near the back edge (circled in picture). Does anyone know what these are? Is it decorative or is there a sensor there? Trying to figure out if it's safe to have them covered. I think it is but figured I'd get 2nd opinions.
> View attachment 3347696


A board is glued inside the cover and there is a cable cable, most likely these are LEDs, that is, an indication, but what is not known.


----------



## RickMes

When I mute the microphone, 4 LEDs light up behind the front speaker. Anyone knows if there is a way to avoid this? It kinda forces me to turn the mic back in order to avoid that light when watching content.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## RickMes

I am now ready to order a 90" CLR and I am deciding between the following (all shipped from/to Europe):


AEON EDGE FREE - FIXED FRAME PROJECTION SCREEN
Leinwandbau CLR Frame Screen 16:9
HiViLux 16:9 CLR contrast UST-fixed frame screen Zero framewidth RZ-AHD-P

I am more inclined to go for the Elite Screen because it is the most recommended/bought at this price range, but the Leinwandbau is 1/3 cheaper though I never heard of it before. Can anyone give me some advice on these other screens (Leinwandbau and HiViLux)?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## ProjectionHead

RickMes said:


> When I mute the microphone, 4 LEDs light up behind the front speaker. Anyone knows if there is a way to avoid this? It kinda forces me to turn the mic back in order to avoid that light when watching content.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


There is a switch on the right side in the front by the feet, try toggling that.


----------



## RickMes

ProjectionHead said:


> There is a switch on the right side in the front by the feet, try toggling that.


That's what I meant by muting the microphone. When I toggle that switch those front LEDs turn and stay on.


----------



## ProjectionHead

RickMes said:


> That's what I meant by muting the microphone. When I toggle that switch those front LEDs turn and stay on.


Interesting, I thought that turned off the lights when turning off voice control


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> Interesting, I thought that turned off the lights when turning off voice control


It indicates, not very intelligently, that the projector's microphone has been turned off. 
To turn off the LEDs, the microphone must be activated. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## RickMes

3sprit said:


> It indicates, not very intelligently, that the projector's microphone has been turned off.
> To turn off the LEDs, the microphone must be activated. 🤷‍♂️


Kinda of a way to force us leaving the mic on in order to avoid those lights...


----------



## 3sprit

🎯 😎


----------



## Brajesh

Wonder what happened w/the new firmware we were supposed to get? Any info @ProjectionHead?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

3sprit said:


> It indicates, not very intelligently, that the projector's microphone has been turned off.
> To turn off the LEDs, the microphone must be activated. 🤷‍♂️


Just put a small piece of Black Electricions Tape over the LED's....


----------



## RickMes

MRJAZZZ said:


> Just put a small piece of Black Electricions Tape over the LED's....


They are under the front speaker panel so no thanks!


----------



## DesertDog

esegan said:


> A board is glued inside the cover and there is a cable cable, most likely these are LEDs, that is, an indication, but what is not known.


Thanks, that's what it looked like to me too. I put a piece of black velvet over the top of them last night and didn't have any issues. lt was nice, the projector disappears a bit with it over having that little bit of reflection below the screen.


----------



## SmSnko

I tried several usb sticks and usb hdd and none worked. Format NTFS, exFAT. What am I doing wrong? I can't watch a movie on an external drive.


----------



## Ricoflashback

SmSnko said:


> I tried several usb sticks and usb hdd and none worked. Format NTFS, exFAT. What am I doing wrong? I can't watch a movie on an external drive.


Just my experience but you'd be better off using a different processor for your movies or any other content on a USB source. A streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro (others, as well) or a DVD Player. I never use native apps on my Formovie projector and do not use the USB option. To me, it's not the best way to go and is nothing but headaches. Even the Nvidia Shield Pro is difficult to use with a USB drive. I have an older OPPO 103 Blu-ray player that works superbly for external content with my GT1.


----------



## 3sprit

MRJAZZZ said:


> Just put a small piece of Black Electricions Tape over the LED's....


Just don't put the LEDs in front just to indicate that the microphone is off.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Wonder what happened w/the new firmware we were supposed to get? Any info @ProjectionHead?


Not since Chris left; he was focused on CEDIA for the weeks prior to his resignation, so I am not sure what's up. I hope to get some info soon and of course will share.

edit: my bad - got confused with the Hisense thread I was in earlier. Not sure which firmware for Theater you are referring to.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Not since Chris left; he was focused on CEDIA for the weeks prior to his resignation, so I am not sure what's up. I hope to get some info soon and of course will share.


Who is Chris ? Is he the context at formovie that can give updates ?


----------



## SmSnko

For me its easy copy files to usb stick or hdd and put it to tv or projector. Formovie doesnt like my 128gb usb stick and 3tb hdd. Maybe it supports just 64gb usb sticks dont know.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> Who is Chris ? Is he the context at formovie that can give updates ?


I got confused earlier (blame it on the covid brain fog) and edited my post)


----------



## RickMes

So, after put my GT1 away back in its package for two weeks and reconnecting everything yesterday, today I noticed the following:


The glass seems to be a bit scratched though, that I noticed, is not affecting the image (I only cleaned it with the brush from a Hama lenspen cleaner)
There seems to be a somewhat dead pixel, that I think is only visible in very black images (will try to post a photo later)
I remember someone saying that there was a foamy piece on their lens that was not well aligned. Well, at that time I checked mine and it seemed to be fine, however now it is not, as you can see from the picture bellow. Doesn't seem to be influencing the image though.








Anyone else having these issues? Should I be worried?

Thanks!


----------



## Brajesh

ProjectionHead said:


> edit: my bad - got confused with the Hisense thread I was in earlier. Not sure which firmware for Theater you are referring to.


The one @kraine mentioned about 5 weeks ago...


kraine said:


> It’s written « bugs correction » 😂 But I found that its impact on colorimetry was important compared to the first version that served as the basis for my test.


----------



## SmSnko

So what is solution to play .mkv files? I want to play my wedding in 4k, movies, mkv format, but i cant use usb drive, all the time formovie show error about broken usb, tried few sticks and hdd. I was hoping it would be as easy as with the TV, where the usb works properly.


----------



## badboris

SmSnko said:


> So what is solution to play .mkv files? I want to play my wedding in 4k, movies, mkv format, but i cant use usb drive, all the time formovie show error about broken usb, tried few sticks and hdd. I was hoping it would be as easy as with the TV, where the usb works properly.


Setup a NAS. If you can wait, many will be going on sale for BF

Much better solution in the longrun.


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> So what is solution to play .mkv files? I want to play my wedding in 4k, movies, mkv format, but i cant use usb drive, all the time formovie show error about broken usb, tried few sticks and hdd. I was hoping it would be as easy as with the TV, where the usb works properly.


As suggested above, you should really use an external device.
I don't know exactly what's the deal with the Formovie Theater and USB media support, but I also didn't have much luck when I tried it.

If you care for streaming services, and Netflix in particular, you should look into the Nvidia Shield Pro.
If you focused on play local files, you can get a Zidoo or maybe a Dune-HD device. Should be the best option for playing local files.

You could also go for a UHD Blu-Ray player which can play files off the USB port, but it might be more expensive and I guess the best support for different files and codecs would be the Zidoo / Dune-HD.


----------



## luisalbertokid

RazB said:


> As suggested above, you should really use an external device.
> I don't know exactly what's the deal with the Formovie Theater and USB media support, but I also didn't have much luck when I tried it.
> 
> If you care for streaming services, and Netflix in particular, you should look into the Nvidia Shield Pro.
> If you focused on play local files, you can get a Zidoo or maybe a Dune-HD device. Should be the best option for playing local files.
> 
> You could also go for a UHD Blu-Ray player which can play files off the USB port, but it might be more expensive and I guess the best support for different files and codecs would be the Zidoo / Dune-HD.


Regarding the Zidoo (and latest DuneHD), would it be a good move to use the VS10 Dolby engine and tone map everything to DV since the Formovie is DV capable?


----------



## Brajesh

I tone map SDR & HDR with VS10, but do LLDV for DV.


----------



## RazB

luisalbertokid said:


> Regarding the Zidoo (and latest DuneHD), would it be a good move to use the VS10 Dolby engine and tone map everything to DV since the Formovie is DV capable?


I actually don't have mine just yet. For the moment I use a PC and MadVR for HDR to SDR tone mapping.
Still didn't try DV at all, but I know that if you really want to get the most of it you should probably use an HDFury device like the Vertex2 or the VRROOM to be able to tinker with settings, but I specifically don't plan on spending so much on those.

@Brajesh , do you use any of the above? Or do you force LLDV straight to the projector with nothing in between?


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> I tone map SDR & HDR with VS10, but do LLDV for DV.


Can you clarify this more? What you wrote doesn’t make any sense. There’s no reason to tone map SDR, cuz there’s nothing that needs “mapping” with SDR. Also, VS10 is DV, and LLDV is too, so what you wrote sounds like you’re converting everything to LLDV. Is that what you’re doing? I sense not.


----------



## Brajesh

Poorly worded on my part... with Zidoo Z9X, I'm having everything but DV processed using VS10.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> Poorly worded on my part... with Zidoo Z9X, I'm having everything but DV processed using VS10.


OK, but VS10 *IS* the Dolby Vision Engine in the Zidoo. So what happens when you play native DV with the Z9X? It still uses VS10 as that is the processor that’s installed in it to do the DV processing using its metadata. 

Sounds like you’re effectively converting everything to DV anyway, so there’s no reason not to just select the option to use VS10 for all content, no?

Or maybe you’re saying with SDR and HDR10 you’re converting and processing that into LLDV and when it plays native DV it is using Display-Led so the T1 is doing the DV processing?

Sorry I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just trying to wrap my head around why to do it that way.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> OK, but VS10 *IS* the Dolby Vision Engine in the Zidoo. So what happens when you play native DV with the Z9X? It still uses VS10 as that is the processor that’s installed in it to do the DV processing using its metadata.
> 
> Sounds like you’re effectively converting everything to DV anyway, so there’s no reason not to just select the option to use VS10 for all content, no?
> 
> Or maybe you’re saying with SDR and HDR10 you’re converting and processing that into LLDV and when it plays native DV it is using Display-Led so the T1 is doing the DV processing?
> 
> Sorry I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just trying to wrap my head around why to do it that way.


I think the OP is using DV for everything and doesn't realize it. One of the options in the HDR settings is to use VS10 for HDR and SDR with everything else falling back to the "Auto" setting. When Auto is set the DV titles should then be getting processed by the VS10 engine like normal. So unless I'm missing something then the VS10 for HDR and SDR option is the same as the VS10 for DV, HDR, and SDR option when playing a video. 

Someone please correct me if my understanding is wrong. This is how I've been interrupting the settings on mine.


----------



## SmSnko

But another big external device for 200-500 dollars is not solution for me. It is really bad that formovie doesnt support normal usb hdd or usb sticks. I'm disappointed with that. My old TV supports almost everything via usb. 

Maybe formovie support just 500gb hdd or 64 usb sticks dont know, maybe someone from here solved this problem.


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> But another big external device for 200-500 dollars is not solution for me. It is really bad that formovie doesnt support normal usb hdd or usb sticks. I'm disappointed with that. My old TV supports almost everything via usb.
> 
> Maybe formovie support just 500gb hdd or 64 usb sticks dont know, maybe someone from here solved this problem.


I get how you feel. We do pay a premium for the global version with Android TV and all, so you can expect it to function as a smart TV as well.
For me it doesn't matter as much, for I never count on the displaying device to be the player. Yet the functionality should be there.
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this issue.
This might be the case of formatting, I get the feeling only FAT32 will work, but I have only NTFS HDDs or an exFAT SSD to test with. If it really only works with FAT32 then it is rather miserable, as 4GB is the max file size supported on this file system which is by now exteremly out dated.


----------



## SmSnko

Yes, thats why i bought global version with android 11. And i cant watch netflix and movies from usb. So i have to buy some external device to have netflix and working usb. So this global version is almost same as Chinese version for me.

So if i will buy for example this - Dune HD Magic 4K Plus
Everything will be ok? USB hdd and netflix will work? All with HDR... Or some other solution, my budget is 150 dollars, I'm angry about it and I don't want to pay a lot of money for some usb adapter...

btw - is there chance that after firmware/software update will usb work correct?


----------



## JackB

This is a very long thread. Is there anywhere in the thread where each entry in the menu system is explained as to its purpose and effect on the picture? For instance, Adaptive Luma Control. What is that? Lots of other entries like that that aren't clear.


----------



## Brajesh

DesertDog said:


> I think the OP is using DV for everything and doesn't realize it. One of the options in the HDR settings is to use VS10 for HDR and SDR with everything else falling back to the "Auto" setting. When Auto is set the DV titles should then be getting processed by the VS10 engine like normal. So unless I'm missing something then the VS10 for HDR and SDR option is the same as the VS10 for DV, HDR, and SDR option when playing a video.
> 
> Someone please correct me if my understanding is wrong. This is how I've been interrupting the settings on mine.


Believe you guys are right, would explain why I'm not getting HDR10+ to work with AWOL 😳.


----------



## luisalbertokid

SmSnko said:


> Yes, thats why i bought global version with android 11. And i cant watch netflix and movies from usb. So i have to buy some external device to have netflix and working usb. So this global version is almost same as Chinese version for me.
> 
> So if i will buy for example this - Dune HD Magic 4K Plus
> Everything will be ok? USB hdd and netflix will work? All with HDR... Or some other solution, my budget is 150 dollars, I'm angry about it and I don't want to pay a lot of money for some usb adapter...
> 
> btw - is there chance that after firmware/software update will usb work correct?


Players like the DuneHD are not meant for streaming services, but to play files from your own library - if you ever get to make something like Netflix to work on one of these devices you'll never get full HDR/Atmos etc. If you want streaming services and the ability to play files via USB your best bet is the nVidia SHIELD, it will cover your needs and you won't need anything else (assuming you don't use physical media, of course).


----------



## g3m

JackB said:


> This is a very long thread. Is there anywhere in the thread where each entry in the menu system is explained as to its purpose and effect on the picture? For instance, Adaptive Luma Control. What is that? Lots of other entries like that that aren't clear.


Many settings have the same name of settings found in other devices using Android TV. Maybe this is a standard that is provided to the vendor when they implement Android TV on their projector or TV. Each vendor implementation could be different, but I think the end goal should be similar.

Examples of description from a Nokia Android Smart TV :


















Source : https://www.mynokia.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/Nokia_Smart_TV_User_Manual.pdf


----------



## SmSnko

So, i need nvidia shield or nvidia shield pro? Btw i have xbox series x, maybe this will be enough?








Buy NVIDIA SHIELD


Media players, remotes, and stands.




store.nvidia.com


----------



## HitchcockBirds

What about that new Apple TV coming out?


----------



## leo0111127

Brajesh said:


> Believe you guys are right, would explain why I'm not getting HDR10+ to work with AWOL 😳.


AWOL has no voice on AVS Forum, most the users are in AWOL Facebook group. Try to contact AWOL team.


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> So, i need nvidia shield or nvidia shield pro? Btw i have xbox series x, maybe this will be enough?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buy NVIDIA SHIELD
> 
> 
> Media players, remotes, and stands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> store.nvidia.com


No idea about the Xbox and it's capabilities, but I'd say it's worth checking out.
As for the Nvidia Sheild you need the Pro version. The non-pro doesn't even have a USB port to begin with, so doesn't seem like something you should even consider.


----------



## 3sprit

For those who have dust “internally”: how do you remove it? 🤔


----------



## MRJAZZZ

3sprit said:


> For those who have dust “internally”: how do you remove it? 🤔


Take a small high power fan and blow air into the intake vent on the right side of the projector (facing the screen, on your right side, the left side is the exit and will be warm to the touch).
Cheers....


----------



## 3sprit

Thank you
Is there no risk of causing harm?
Something like this?








IT Dusters CompuCleaner Xpert - Elettrico Aria Compressa : Amazon.it: Cancelleria e prodotti per ufficio


IT Dusters CompuCleaner Xpert - Elettrico Aria Compressa : Amazon.it: Cancelleria e prodotti per ufficio



www.amazon.it


----------



## rjyap

As long as you are not using high pressure from air compressor that should be fine.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> As long as you are not using high pressure from air compressor that should be fine.


No effect on warranty? Does Formovie provide any guidance on this?


----------



## rjyap

Ricoflashback said:


> No effect on warranty? Does Formovie provide any guidance on this?


Well if you don't tell, they wouldn't know. No guidance as this is mostly end user experiment to clean out the lens. If I want to clean the lens thoroughly, I would have open up the projector cause sooner or later, you might want to clean your projector internal lens. Done that on my old DLP projector including BENQ and Optoma which is more risky as we need to clean the DLP color wheel too to restore the brightness.


----------



## j-0

Quick question... I know many people used the HDFURY Vertex2 to improve on the Chinese version.

Are there any people who are using HDFURY Vertex2 for the Global Version and find it seriously improves their image quality?

If so, what settings do you use? I recently got a HDFURY Vertex2 for the HU915QB, which needs it to reduce RBE issues. I was thinking about trying it on my global T1 too, but first impression is it doesn't seem to change much (but this may be a setting issue..)


----------



## DesertDog

j-0 said:


> Quick question... I know many people used the HDFURY Vertex2 to improve on the Chinese version.
> 
> Are there any people who are using HDFURY Vertex2 for the Global Version and find it seriously improves their image quality?
> 
> If so, what settings do you use? I recently got a HDFURY Vertex2 for the HU915QB, which needs it to reduce RBE issues. I was thinking about trying it on my global T1 too, but first impression is it doesn't seem to change much (but this may be a setting issue..)


I'm using one with a GT1, mainly because I already had it. I'm running the Harpervision settings that @Dave Harper posted early in the thread. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. One of the things I want to do this weekend is to switch it off and compare to native SDR, HDR, and DV on it. 

How are you using the Vertex2 to reduce RGB? I hadn't seen that use before and I'm curious as to what settings do that. I see some RGB speckle on static white and red graphics and I'm wondering now if flipping a switch in mine might help with it.


----------



## j-0

DesertDog said:


> I'm using one with a GT1, mainly because I already had it. I'm running the Harpervision settings that @Dave Harper posted early in the thread. I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes. One of the things I want to do this weekend is to switch it off and compare to native SDR, HDR, and DV on it.
> 
> How are you using the Vertex2 to reduce RGB? I hadn't seen that use before and I'm curious as to what settings do that. I see some RGB speckle on static white and red graphics and I'm wondering now if flipping a switch in mine might help with it.


I would love to hear your thoughts on running the cable through the Vertex2 versus running it directly from your Apple TV to the GT1 in DV mode.

I used the run mine in DV mode, directly from Apple TV, combined with the settings from the ProjectorScreen.com UST showdown where it ranked first place (and where it was compared to some ultra high end projector). I have to say I have been very satisfied with those settings, but as I got a Vertex2 I wanted to try it out.

My main issue so far with the T1 is that I find the lens/image not to be perfectly sharp / and, as such, the image not as detailed as some of the ultra-expensive projectors (i.e. HU915QB).

That said, so far, based on my testing, each projector has some kind of issue, so pick your vice.

HU915QB has an extreme amount of RBE issues, and even using the standard Vertex2 settings for LLDV (so you can play Apple TV in DV mode even though the LG otherwise doesn't support DV mode), it reduced RBE issues.

Compared to the HU915QB, the T1 has minimal RBE IMO, so you may be particularly susceptible. There may be a chance that you see more RBE issues without using the Vertex2... Might be an interesting test for you. I would definitely experiment as that test would be very easy (just changing a wire and switching between modes) and shouldn't take much time 

PS. With more than 105 pages in this thread, you wouldn't be any chance have a direct link to those Harpervision Vertex2 T1 settings do you 😂😂?

PPS. @DesertDog, if you need the projectorscreen.com T1 winning settings, just DM me


----------



## DesertDog

j-0 said:


> I would love to hear your thoughts on running the cable through the Vertex2 versus running it directly from your Apple TV to the GT1 in DV mode.
> 
> I used the run mine in DV mode, directly from Apple TV, combined with the settings from the ProjectorScreen.com UST showdown where it ranked first place (and where it was compared to some ultra high end projector). I have to say I have been very satisfied with those settings, but as I got a Vertex2 I wanted to try it out.
> 
> My main issue so far with the T1 is that I find the lens/image not to be perfectly sharp / and, as such, the image not as detailed as some of the ultra-expensive projectors (i.e. HU915QB).
> 
> That said, so far, based on my testing, each projector has some kind of issue, so pick your vice.
> 
> HU915QB has an extreme amount of RBE issues, and even using the standard Vertex2 settings for LLDV (so you can play Apple TV in DV mode even though the LG otherwise doesn't support DV mode), it reduced RBE issues.
> 
> Compared to the HU915QB, the T1 has minimal RBE IMO, so you may be particularly susceptible. There may be a chance that you see more RBE issues without using the Vertex2... Might be an interesting test for you. I would definitely experiment as that test would be very easy (just changing a wire and switching between modes) and shouldn't take much time
> 
> PS. With more than 105 pages in this thread, you wouldn't be any chance have a direct link to those Harpervision Vertex2 T1 settings do you 😂😂?
> 
> PPS. If you need the projectorscreen.com T1 winning settings, just DM me


I'll reread this tomorrow. It's too late right now.  

I do have the Harpervision links saved. I believe these are different from the shootout. IIRC he didn't have a HDFury in use for it. 








Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Ill check those out- appreciate it. I know it can vary-its why I stated "basic settings" then if users have time and brain they can learn more and improve for their environment. Learning how to tinker with all those settings is a huge undertaking- dosent look like its something one can just...




www.avsforum.com












Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


If you go for a UST the screen is very important. If you choose a good UST projector but an average screen the image won’t be good. Quality is less important for a standard/long throw. I can understand folks not wanting to spend a great amount on a projector screen. But UST Projectors have...




www.avsforum.com












Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


If you go for a UST the screen is very important. If you choose a good UST projector but an average screen the image won’t be good. Quality is less important for a standard/long throw. I can understand folks not wanting to spend a great amount on a projector screen. But UST Projectors have...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## brusteraider

A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


----------



## j-0

brusteraider said:


> A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


Maybe. My screen is 110 inch. I feel the T1 is perfect for 80-100 inch screens as the more expensive projectors tend to overshoot smaller screens. I.e. I tried the LG HUG85LA (previous model) on a 100 inch screen. It's supposed to handle 100 inch and up, but I had to software correct the edges (as it overshot), which is really not ideal.

The software lens focus correction on the T1 works to a degree, but you have to heat up the T1 for 30 minutes first, and even then, you will likely find that, for example, the center may be sharp, but text in the edges will look quite blurry.


----------



## RazB

brusteraider said:


> A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


It seems that some are luckier and some are less with sharpness.
In my case it's mostly the top corners, more so with left. Isn't as noticeable with content but still bothers me especially when showing UI, graphics and text.
My screen is a 135" by the way.
This projector is really great in many ways, but this problem is a let down. I didn't sign for the lottery, I bought a projector which is advertised to go up to 150 inches. No mention of anything like best sharpness is at X inches or under. Therefore it should be expected to be sharp even at 150".

I would say speak to your dealer about it before cancelling and see what's their input.


----------



## clipghost

RazB said:


> It seems that some are luckier and some are less with sharpness.
> In my case it's mostly the top corners, more so with left. Isn't as noticeable with content but still bothers me especially when showing UI, graphics and text.
> My screen is a 135" by the way.
> This projector is really great in many ways, but this problem is a let down. I didn't sign for the lottery, I bought a projector which is advertised to go up to 150 inches. No mention of anything like best sharpness is at X inches or under. Therefore it should be expected to be sharp even at 150".
> 
> I would say speak to your dealer about it before cancelling and see what's their input.


It's so strange as many complain about focus issues on the T1...but it has great black levels. And then the Awol is very good sharpness but poor black levels. Ahhhhhh

Can you post some pictures of the focus issue you have? Are you going to return yours?


----------



## RazB

Here are a couple of posts:








Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


That's very good to hear, thank you. What kind of screen material do you use? I am using Silver Ticket White Matte screen with 1.1 gain




www.avsforum.com












Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol




www.avsforum.com




And another one showing content:








Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol




www.avsforum.com





I must emphasise again, the picture is beautiful. Blacks are quite an improvement, especially compared with other 4k DLP projectors, that goes for contrast as well and colour is also very good with wide gamut coverage.

Not sure yet of what to do about the sharpness issue, I'm still awaiting a response on the matter. I can tell you what I received so far as an answer I didn't find acceptable. Basically I was told this is normal for UST projectors, not only to this one and for this company, and it is best at 120" or under. So as you see I was pretty much suggested to get a smaller screen.

From the previous pages you can see that some other members here had better luck and do get sharp corners, so I really don't think this can be excused by claims like the above.


----------



## kraine

clipghost said:


> It's so strange as many complain about focus issues on the T1...but it has great black levels. And then the Awol is very good sharpness but poor black levels. Ahhhhhh


I can't confirm that the Awol offers a more accurate picture than the Formovie Theater. In fact it's the opposite, I've never seen as much chromatic aberration on a UST as on the Awol 2500. I think I read that the Brahesh Awol had the same problems.

Here is a visual exemple :









Test Awol Vision LTV 2500 - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Awol Vision LTV 2500




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## JimBob1971

brusteraider said:


> A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


I feel the sharpness issue has been overstated and most people will simply setup the projector and forget about it. (Having said that I run mine at 100”)

If you plan to use the projector as a monitor or to view games with lots of text then it won’t be the best option. If you want to use it to play high def movies then it will give your local cinema a run for its money.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JimBob1971 said:


> I feel the sharpness issue has been overstated and most people will simply setup the projector and forget about it. (Having said that I run mine at 100”)
> 
> If you plan to use the projector as a monitor or to view games with lots of text then it won’t be the best option. If you want to use it to play high def movies then it will give your local cinema a run for its money.


I couldn't agree more. With all the benefits, the fantastic color gamut and the incredible black level of the Formovie Global Theater projector - - the obsession with the sharpness is a rat hole with no end. I only have a 100" screen and the picture is very sharp and pristine. When I look at the "Focus" pattern, the left, top corner is not as sharp but geez - - it in no way affects my viewing pleasure. Now, for gamers who use that top left corner for important graphics - - ok, I can see your point. But when you're not gaming, let me know your other PJ choice and how it compares to the GT1.


----------



## ProjectionHead

brusteraider said:


> A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


Seems to be some variances in manufacturing. We have seen it super sharp at 120+ but have also seen some units where the top left just never quite got there.
It did get the highest rating in sharpness in the LaserTV showdown by the 6 judges.
The lens used is not the sharpest out there, but it also directly correlates with the contrast, which the Formovie blows away any comparably priced UST with the higher fstop lens.


----------



## Dave Harper

kraine said:


> I can't confirm that the Awol offers a more accurate picture than the Formovie Theater. In fact it's the opposite, I've never seen as much chromatic aberration on a UST as on the Awol 2500. I think I read that the Brahesh Awol had the same problems.
> 
> Here is a visual exemple :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Awol Vision LTV 2500 - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Awol Vision LTV 2500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


The 3500 uses a much better lens than the 2500, so that should be less of an issue.


----------



## kraine

ProjectionHead said:


> The lens used is not the sharpest out there, but it also directly correlates with the contrast, which the Formovie blows away any comparably priced UST with the higher fstop lens.


Exactly  And the secret of the contrast is in the Lens (but it seems that you already know it ).


----------



## 3sprit

I am more bothered by the band of color on the left visible on white and lighter images.


----------



## Joered101

Would anyone please advise what type of plug the formovie uses? I have one, just need to get one longer but can’t find the ampage of it. Think it’s a clover plug with three pins? Anything more specific?
Thanks


----------



## RazB

As I said, for all the other reasons the projector is *fantastic*, and yet, the lack of sharpness in the corners on my unit is enough to be of a let down for me personally.
I know there are far more expensive projectors, but 3000-3500 USD / EUR isn't exactly a budget projector either and one can have expectations. In fact some projectors have pretty sharp corners so why shouldn't I or anyone else expect his to be sharp as well?
It is not "the way it is with USTs" like my dealer claimed if quite a few here have shared pictures with good sharpness in the corners.


----------



## Brajesh

Dave Harper said:


> The 3500 uses a much better lens than the 2500, so that should be less of an issue.


Here's the color fringing on my 3500. Sharpness is good however as you can see.











Ricoflashback said:


> I couldn't agree more. With all the benefits, the fantastic color gamut and the incredible black level of the Formovie Global Theater projector - - the obsession with the sharpness is a rat hole with no end. I only have a 100" screen and the picture is very sharp and pristine. When I look at the "Focus" pattern, the left, top corner is not as sharp but geez - - it in no way affects my viewing pleasure. Now, for gamers who use that top left corner for important graphics - - ok, I can see your point. But when you're not gaming, let me know your other PJ choice and how it compares to the GT1.


Agree, but focus, especially on the top left of the image, could be improved and be more consistent across units. I've had 4 T1/Theater units & focus varied quite a bit between them. Also, as T1/Theater are advertised to work with screens up to 150" (mine's 145"), I'd expect good focus to hold up to that size. As at least one AVS member has opened up his T1 & manually pushed the focus ring a bit to get focus pretty close to perfect, which tells me there's room the in lens assembly design Formovie can impove upon so same can be achieved using electronic focus w/the remote. Thankfully the one I have now was hand-picked by @ProjectionHead & focus is pretty good. I understand Formovie has improved QC and this should be less a concern with newer batches?


----------



## 3sprit

Joered101 said:


> Would anyone please advise what type of plug the formovie uses? I have one, just need to get one longer but can’t find the ampage of it. Think it’s a clover plug with three pins? Anything more specific?
> Thanks


It’s a *IEC-C5 Connector*


----------



## JackB

brusteraider said:


> A lot of you are complaining about sharpness with this lens. Is this just with screens over 100" or is it an issue with this projector. I am really thinking about cancelling my order.


Not me. Mine can be too sharp, something like the SBE we are familiar with. I haven't turned down the sharpness to 0 yet so that might help. Another thing I'm thinking of doing it using the keystone alignment aid to soften the picture.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> The 3500 uses a much better lens than the 2500, so that should be less of an issue.


Im pretty sure awol is saying it’s the same lens in both units; did they tell you otherwise?


----------



## j-0

kraine said:


> I can't confirm that the Awol offers a more accurate picture than the Formovie Theater. In fact it's the opposite, I've never seen as much chromatic aberration on a UST as on the Awol 2500. I think I read that the Brahesh Awol had the same problems.


Strange. I had the Awol 3500 and definitely felt it had a stronger lens, and sharper image, compared to the T1 when I had both side by side. I even posted some videos in another thread.

That said, I've been reading many reports that, apparently, there can be significant variations between T1 models. More drastic compared to other projectors. So this may be playing a role...



Ricoflashback said:


> With all the benefits, the fantastic color gamut and the incredible black level of the Formovie Global Theater projector - - the obsession with the sharpness is a rat hole with no end.


I strongly disagree. It's no rat hole with no end. It's just not sharp. End of story. Maybe you got lucky with your T1. Maybe my unit is defective. Maybe our eyes are different. Who knows. But too many people are complaining about this, for this to be a single device issue. 

As an analogy, when you go to the local imax and the image isn't sharp, would you be happy and go back watching more movies, raving about the black levels lol?

That said, I fully support the "pick your vice" motto. Whichever projector you pick, there will likely be some kind of trade off.


----------



## clipghost

RazB said:


> Here are a couple of posts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> That's very good to hear, thank you. What kind of screen material do you use? I am using Silver Ticket White Matte screen with 1.1 gain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And another one showing content:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Wish these things would hurry up and make the trip to the US. Can't wait to get mine and set it up. Patience is a virtue that I don't possess lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must emphasise again, the picture is beautiful. Blacks are quite an improvement, especially compared with other 4k DLP projectors, that goes for contrast as well and colour is also very good with wide gamut coverage.
> 
> Not sure yet of what to do about the sharpness issue, I'm still awaiting a response on the matter. I can tell you what I received so far as an answer I didn't find acceptable. Basically I was told this is normal for UST projectors, not only to this one and for this company, and it is best at 120" or under. So as you see I was pretty much suggested to get a smaller screen.
> 
> From the previous pages you can see that some other members here had better luck and do get sharp corners, so I really don't think this can be excused by claims like the above.


Thank you for all this information, I greatly appreciate it! Where did you order from and what is your next step?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

clipghost said:


> It's so strange as many complain about focus issues on the T1...but it has great black levels. And then the Awol is very good sharpness but poor black levels. Ahhhhhh
> 
> Can you post some pictures of the focus issue you have? Are you going to return yours?


Take a look at the Epson L800...in many ways it's the best , or certainly competitive, in three main areas...Contrast, Brightness, (Lumens) and Sharpness...although it has some issues as well (what doesn't)...


----------



## clipghost

MRJAZZZ said:


> Take a look at the Epson L800...in many ways it's the best , or certainly competitive, in three main areas...Contrast, Brightness, (Lumens) and Sharpness...although it has some issues as well (what doesn't)...


Sadly not being triple laser and not including ethernet at this price point is a deal breaker.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

clipghost said:


> Sadly not being triple laser and not including ethernet at this price point is a deal breaker.


I have had the Formovie Global...great UST...great Color, and Contrast, however as I have previously posted it had some operational issues (not going to re-post what they were, but were sufficient enough for me to return...)
I personally can care less about an Ethernet port, in terms of it being a " Deal Breaker "...
(I use an APPLE ATV4, that does have an Ethernet port, and the 2 recent updates the Epson L800 has had went very smoothly via WIFI)
Not being a Tri Lazer also isn't a deal breaker ....
....(For me).... The Epson's Color performance is superb. The combination of Brightness and Contrast , along with very good color, even if below that of a Tri Lazer still provide a Very engaging and enjoyable video experience. 

However if Color Purity is your "thing", then I definitely can see that as a "Deal Breaker" for someone. The good news is we, as a Home Theater community now, more than ever, have many , quality choices. 👏 
Cheers....


----------



## clipghost

MRJAZZZ said:


> I have had the Formovie Global...great UST...great Color, and Contrast, however as I have previously posted it had some operational issues (not going to re-post what they were, but were sufficient enough for me to return...)
> I personally can care less about an Ethernet port, in terms of it being a " Deal Breaker "...
> (I use an APPLE ATV4, that does have an Ethernet port, and the 2 recent updates the Epson L800 has had went very smoothly via WIFI)
> Not being a Tri Lazer also isn't a deal breaker ....
> ....(For me).... The Epson's Color performance is superb. The combination of Brightness and Contrast , along with very good color, even if below that of a Tri Lazer still provide a Very engaging and enjoyable video experience.
> 
> However if Color Purity is your "thing", then I definitely can see that as a "Deal Breaker" for someone. The good news is we, as a Home Theater community now, more than ever, have many , quality choices. 👏
> Cheers....


Yup! So I guess quick summary since I can’t go back 100 pages and find it, what are the main reasons you returned it? I would appreciate it.


----------



## luisalbertokid

clipghost said:


> Sadly not being triple laser and not including ethernet at this price point is a deal breaker.


I believe the Epson is limited to REC709 and also only 2 X pixel-shifting (which I personally don't mind much).


----------



## iitywygms

I finally got mine setup. Took a couple of days but once done I used very little keystone correction. Impressive projector. My first time owning one. Still got some clean up to do.
Coupld of questions.
1. I know its subjective and depends on your enviroment/screen/taste. But has anyone posted a basic 'recommended' picture settings?
2. Where can I find the defintion of all the picture settings? Some things I can find with google. But not all.
Like, wth is De-Counter? Blue Stretch? Never heard of those before and my google fu is not returning much.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

luisalbertokid said:


> I believe the Epson is limited to REC709 and also only 2 X pixel-shifting (which I personally don't mind much).


Not sure about the technology of Epson's Pixel Shifting, however I can unequivocally state it's at the Very least, as sharp as any projector thats been in my home, and that includes numerous one chip DLP projectors ( latest BenQ models..not the UST, but their long throw units, Epson's 5050UB, XGIMI Horizon 4K Pro
Dangbei Mars 4k, The Formovie UST, BOWMAKER UST, two previous generations of JVC projectors, and others.. 
Not sure how they are implementing their PIXEL SHIFTING TECH, but suffice to say IT WORKS, and very well.🙂


----------



## MRJAZZZ

clipghost said:


> Yup! So I guess quick summary since I can’t go back 100 pages and find it, what are the main reasons you returned it? I would appreciate it.


Developed several dust blobs during the first week. Got rid of them by using a fan to blow air into the intake vent. The other issue was unusual and apparently a one off issue as I have yet to see anyone else post this issue....After a few hours of being on, several areas of the screen developed " hot spotting ", . As soon as I either turned off the projector, or even just switching to a different input, etc they ( the Hot Spotting) would be gone, only to return after a period of time, but in different areas of the screen. 
I wouldn't use these issues as a reason to Not get a Formovie, as the dust problem is a relatively easy fix, the other , I believe was some anomaly with the unit I had. 
It's an Excellent, overall projector. 👌


----------



## clipghost

iitywygms said:


> I finally got mine setup. Took a couple of days but once done I used very little keystone correction. Impressive projector. My first time owning one. Still got some clean up to do.
> Coupld of questions.
> 1. I know its subjective and depends on your enviroment/screen/taste. But has anyone posted a basic 'recommended' picture settings?
> 2. Where can I find the defintion of all the picture settings? Some things I can find with google. But not all.
> Like, wth is De-Counter? Blue Stretch? Never heard of those before and my google fu is not returning much.
> View attachment 3349587


Looks good! May I ask what brand screen you are using and what the media cabinet is?


----------



## kraine

MRJAZZZ said:


> Not sure about the technology of Epson's Pixel Shifting, however I can unequivocally state it's at the Very least, as sharp as any projector thats been in my home, and that includes numerous one chip DLP projectors ( latest BenQ models..not the UST, but their long throw units, Epson's 5050UB, XGIMI Horizon 4K Pro
> Dangbei Mars 4k, The Formovie UST, BOWMAKER UST, two previous generations of JVC projectors, and others..
> Not sure how they are implementing their PIXEL SHIFTING TECH, but suffice to say IT WORKS, and very well.🙂


The epson EH-LS800 has a lot of quality but the precision of its image is not its strong point. It compensates with the help of the super resolution feature but we are not at the level of a DLP. The Formovie Theater offers better performance in this area.
You will see in its test that as the Epson is a tri-LCD it is easy to highlight panel alignment concerns but it is its technology that wants this.


----------



## kraine

Quick summarize comparaison Formovie Theater vs Epson EH-LS800

Brightness : advantage Epson
Contrast : Equals (correction advantage Formovie "native")
Sharpness : Formovie
Fluidity : Epson
Sound quality : Epson (The Yamaha System with the SW !)
Dolby Vision and HDR : Formovie
SmartTV functions : Epson
Connectivity : Formovie (What annoys me the most on this device are the plugs under the shell of the device, why not place them in the same place as almost all the USTs on the side facing the screen? It's an aberration)
Colorimetry : Formovie with his larger Gamut and better colors corrections options

I will keep the Formovie comparing the Epson but the LS800 is a really good choice and will desserve an mondoprojos Gold Award


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> The epson EH-LS800 has a lot of quality but the precision of its image is not its strong point. It compensates with the help of the super resolution feature but we are not at the level of a DLP. The Formovie Theater offers better performance in this area.
> You will see in its test that as the Epson is a tri-LCD it is easy to highlight panel alignment concerns but it is its technology that wants this.


I totally disagree....perhaps your unit is out of spec, or perhaps I just got lucky. 
My unit is razor sharp and in all FOUR CORNERS OF THE SCREEN. MY Formovie Global T1 was good in this regard, but not outstanding. 
Cheers....


----------



## RazB

clipghost said:


> Thank you for all this information, I greatly appreciate it! Where did you order from and what is your next step?


I've been communicating about it with them during this week, last time I was told they got a response from the tech department of Fengmi, telling it is normal for UST projectors in general (not just for their models) and that the sharpness is best up to 120".
Now my answer to that was that this isn't acceptable, I am expecting to be able to focus properly throughout the advertised range, from 80" to 150", it doesn't say anywhere on their product page or user manual to expect worse results going over 120" and in fact other owners have shown focused corners, so there is nothing "normal" about smeared corners.

Since it is the weekend I'll probably hear back only next week, so I'll wait a bit to hear back before I give more details. I don't want people to jump to conclusions before they had the opportunity to reply to the last communication.


----------



## kraine

MRJAZZZ said:


> I totally disagree....perhaps your unit is out of spec, or perhaps I just got lucky.
> My unit is razor sharp and in all FOUR CORNERS OF THE SCREEN. MY Formovie Global T1 was good in this regard, but not outstanding.
> Cheers....


This is the subject of the Formovie not the Epson so I think we're getting off track.
To the subjectivity of your statement I will answer with objective measurements on test charts in the LS800 test. The tri-LCD technology simply does not allow to obtain the level of precision of a DLP and it is even more true with an ultra short focal length lens. 
Panel alignment discrepancies are present on the new LS800 and are amplified as you move away from the center.


----------



## kraine

I readily admit that the Formovie is not the best DLP of the moment in my field of sharpness but it is still better than a tri-LCD projector.


----------



## RazB

@MRJAZZZ @kraine
The Epson LS800 does sounds very interesting and does offer some advantages.
Having a better projection ratio which allows the projector to be placed closer to the wall is simply great on it's own!
I find the brightness of the Formovie Theater very good and sufficient for my use (in complete darkness), but if the contrast is good enough and black levels are kept low it would probably be fine to have the extra luminance.

Focus sharpness seems great on the Epson, nice and uniform from corner to corner from what I can find online, even on big surfaces (should also support up to 150"). Hopefully it is also more consistent between units!
However I haven't seen one with my own eyes and I don't know how detailed the picture actually is in comparison to DLP projectors which theoretically are capable of achieving true UHD resolution by shifting the 1080p chip 4 times over just 2 times on the Eposon and it's 1080p LCD.

There is a good difference between how detailed a picture is to sharpness and focus. My over 10 years old 1080p DLP (long throw) projector is focusing very well, giving that sharp impression, especially when I see the grid pattern so well in focus and uniform, but it definitely doesn't hold the same amount of detail like a 4K DLP projector can, like some BenQs which I've seen and of course my Formovie Theater (though my unit isn't the sharpest).

It's good to see good competition from other companies, using different technologies as well, manufacturers should keep pushing and we should also be pushing Fengmi/Formovie give us good uniform focus without giving excuses ❕

Personally I much prefer DLP over LCD. Even though I do notice RBE (the rainbow effect) I still prefer the picture overall, especially it's motion cadence which is much more cinematic to my eyes.
The Formovie doesn't support 24fps natively unfortunately, so motion can be better, but I can handle the 3:2 pull down. MEMC is out of the question for me, I always turn any motion smoothing off, it completely ruins my experience.


----------



## Joered101

3sprit said:


> It’s a *IEC-C5 Connector*


Thank you!


----------



## ProjectionHead

kraine said:


> Quick summarize comparaison Formovie Theater vs Epson EH-LS800
> 
> Brightness : advantage Epson
> Contrast : Equals
> Sharpness : Formovie
> Fluidity : Epson
> Sound quality : Epson (The Yamaha System with the SW !)
> Dolby Vision and HDR : Formovie
> SmartTV functions : Epson
> Connectivity : Formovie (What annoys me the most on this device are the plugs under the shell of the device, why not place them in the same place as almost all the USTs on the side facing the screen? It's an aberration)
> Colorimetry : Formovie with his larger Gamut
> 
> I will keep the Formovie comparing the Epson but the LS800 is a really good choice and will desserve an mondoprojos Gold Award


I’m actually surprised that you thought the Yamaha sound on Epson was superior to B&W of Formovie.
Not one person here thought the same when auditioned side by side.
I guess it’s the most subjective criteria and a matter of preference.
You said Yamaha system with “SW” - do they give you a subwoofer option in the EU that we don’t get here in the USA?


----------



## kraine

Hi Brian, Yes in any case with the European Version yes (page 116 user manual : 2.1 sound system 2 speakers and 1 woofer)


----------



## MRJAZZZ

kraine said:


> I readily admit that the Formovie is not the best DLP of the moment in my field of sharpness but it is still better than a tri-LCD projector.


Some recent pics showing the Epson's L800 lack of focus/ sharpness ( "precision of image")
😉......I won't post anymore on the L800 in this thread as it's not appropriate, please visit the dedicated L800 thread if someone's interested in the Epson LS800. 
Cheers....


----------



## JackB

kraine said:


> Hi Brian, Yes in any case with the European Version yes (page 116 user manual : 2.1 sound system 2 speakers and 1 woofer)


Kraine,

You mention Page 116 in the User Manual. I have been unable to find a user manual for the Formovie that is longer than 20 pages long. Is this Europe only version? Do you have a link for it?


----------



## iitywygms

clipghost said:


> Looks good! May I ask what brand screen you are using and what the media cabinet is?


Elite Screens Aeon CLR Series, 123-inch
Ikea Besta tv stand.
Basically duplicated this.





The Formovie is a very tight fit. 1/4 inch each side.
Using the cabinet slides listed in the youtube link, it works perfectly. The projector is flush with the front of the cabinet when pushed in. At full extension, the image is just slightly over 123 inches.


----------



## kraine

JackB said:


> Kraine,
> 
> You mention Page 116 in the User Manual. I have been unable to find a user manual for the Formovie that is longer than 20 pages long. Is this Europe only version? Do you have a link for it?


It’s the Epson LS800 use manual.


----------



## RazB

iitywygms said:


> Elite Screens Aeon CLR Series, 123-inch
> Ikea Besta tv stand.
> Basically duplicated this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Formovie is a very tight fit. 1/4 inch each side.
> Using the cabinet slides listed in the youtube link, it works perfectly. The projector is flush with the front of the cabinet when pushed in. At full extension, the image is just slightly over 123 inches.
> View attachment 3349772
> 
> View attachment 3349771


Amazing! A relatively cheap and simple solution which gets the job done. Very nice 
I was considering doing something similar, so it's good to see it can work out for the Formovie Theater.
However my screen is 135", so I won't only need to extend the drawer further out, but also have to take the projector lower and I'm not sure how it's going to work out. I might just move the cabinet off the wall a bit, but still I would have to take it much lower. I don't want to hang the screen too high.

No problem with the projector leaning when extended out? Probably can be solved with the some adjustment to the front legs, but I was wondering if you still had any issues.


----------



## JackB

kraine said:


> It’s the Epson LS800 use manual.


Ok. My mistake. Is there a more complete User Manual available for the Formovie? The one that came with the projector is well short of complete.


----------



## kraine

No, only the version that you have already found.


----------



## clipghost

iitywygms said:


> Elite Screens Aeon CLR Series, 123-inch
> Ikea Besta tv stand.
> Basically duplicated this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Formovie is a very tight fit. 1/4 inch each side.
> Using the cabinet slides listed in the youtube link, it works perfectly. The projector is flush with the front of the cabinet when pushed in. At full extension, the image is just slightly over 123 inches.
> View attachment 3349772
> 
> View attachment 3349771


It looks great, but I saw in your other picture you had a lot of light bleed, anyway to fix it not extending so much?


----------



## iitywygms

clipghost said:


> It looks great, but I saw in your other picture you had a lot of light bleed, anyway to fix it not extending so much?


That's not light bleed. It's just the way the camera took the picture. I've got LEDs all around the outside of the screen. Here's a pic without the LEDs on.


----------



## iitywygms

RazB said:


> However my screen is 135", so I won't only need to extend the drawer further out, but also have to take the projector lower and I'm not sure how it's going to work out. I might just move the cabinet off the wall a bit, but still I would have to take it much lower. I don't want to hang the screen too high.
> 
> No problem with the projector leaning when extended out? Probably can be solved with the some adjustment to the front legs, but I was wondering if you still had any issues.


Well the cabinet is only so deep. So you can only slide 13 inches or so. It really is a very tight fit. I had to get 90° HDMI cables or else the cables wouldn't lets projector slide all the way back. They would hit the back of the cabinet.
If you don't put any other equipment in the center of the besta stand, You could probably drop the projector another 5 in or so. I'm not exactly thrilled with high high the screen is now. If I could start all over again I would probably drop that cabinet down to the floor instead of having it 4 in off the floor. But I've always been one that likes the screen as low as possible. At least for my TVs.
There is some sag with the drawer slides. I mounted the shelf level. But when the projector slides out it does bow it down a little bit. I remove the big rubber foot pad that's on the front of the projector and replaced it with a smaller one I happened to have. That dropped the front of the projector about a quarter inch. Then I was able to get everything nice and square just using the feet.


----------



## luisalbertokid

MRJAZZZ said:


> Not sure about the technology of Epson's Pixel Shifting, however I can unequivocally state it's at the Very least, as sharp as any projector thats been in my home, and that includes numerous one chip DLP projectors ( latest BenQ models..not the UST, but their long throw units, Epson's 5050UB, XGIMI Horizon 4K Pro
> Dangbei Mars 4k, The Formovie UST, BOWMAKER UST, two previous generations of JVC projectors, and others..
> Not sure how they are implementing their PIXEL SHIFTING TECH, but suffice to say IT WORKS, and very well.🙂


That's why I said I didn't mind that 😉. The pixel-shifting on the LS800 is 2 X 1080p instead of the "usual" 4 X most DLPs use. I upgraded from a BenQ 4 X to a Epson 2 X and I honestly don't see much diference in sharpness or resolution but oh boy I see a lot of diference in contrast and black levels favouring the Epson, and that's what really matters to me.


----------



## SmSnko

Hello, and what speakers do you use with your formovie? What do you think about sonos 3D 7.1 surround? My combination is formovie + clr aeon 120 and i am searching for good speakers. Thank you.


----------



## pixphipau

Hmmm the ikea besta video is very good, i happen to have one here in front of me….


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> Hello, and what speakers do you use with your formovie? What do you think about sonos 3D 7.1 surround? My combination is formovie + clr aeon 120 and i am searching for good speakers. Thank you.


I'm not familiar with this product, but it is still basically a soundbar with surrounds and a subwoofer?
I just don't know how significant the improvement will actually be. The Formovie Theater's internal speakers are already pretty good in comparison to most soundbars I came a cross.
With just the projector you are lacking the surrounds and subwoofer. Many wish they could pair USTs with subs more easily, but it isn't the case. So you will have some improvement with bass for sure and the surrounds will be there, but if you really want a significant improvement in sound quality I would advise you to get a system with passive speakers and a separated receiver. You will end up spending less or more depending on your choices, but this will also allow to have better upgrading path in the future.

You could even start off with a 2.0 setup, with floor standing speakers which can dig deeper to the lower frequencies and give you some bass.
Again I must emphasize that I don't know anything about that specific Sonos set, so I'm not commenting on it, but some subs from systems like the Sonos are really not that great and a good floor standing speaker can give very decent bass performance in comparison to some subwoofers.
Going with pair of floor standing speakers and a receiver can already give you a far better upgrade in sound quality over any soundbar and later you can add more speakers and go for surround, a sub and so on. With the Sonos you would have to use compatible products within the family and you will probably have to replace the whole system in order to make an actual step forward when it come to upgrading.

If you want to go for surround right away for an affordable price you can still find budget speakers which will give you a good bang for your buck. Should still surpass the Sonos by quite a bit I'm pretty sure.
I didn't listen to these, but I've heard very good things about the Polk XT series, which are really not that expensive. You should be able to find good deals for a 5.0 set and get a receiver to go along with them.

I don't feel comfortable giving you too specific recommendations actually, as I am not considering myself a sound expert (though I have some experience), there should be much more knowledgeable folks around here.
I'm still exploring my options when it comes to my audio setup, but dealing with the renovation in my place I'm just not yet there. Hopefully soon enough though!

Hope this still has been helpful


----------



## RazB

pixphipau said:


> Hmmm the ikea besta video is very good, i happen to have one here in front of me….


Are you using it with a UST?
If so ,would you mind showing us how you got it setup?


----------



## pixphipau

I dont have a ust yet…im window shopping


----------



## iitywygms

Got the wires hidden and everything cleaned up. I'm a happy camper.


----------



## RazB

iitywygms said:


> View attachment 3350110
> 
> Got the wires hidden and everything cleaned up. I'm a happy camper.


Looks very nice! This turned out really well.
I can see why you didn't want to place the cabinet on the floor, but flush on the wall and just above the skirting, everything fits very well.

What is that black bar under the screen?


----------



## iitywygms

KEF wall mount center channel. I had tried using the matching center channel of my main speakers. But it was just too damn big and cast a shadow on the screen. One of the caveats of using a UST projector.


----------



## RazB

iitywygms said:


> KEF wall mount center channel. I had tried using the matching center channel of my main speakers. But it was just too damn big and cast a shadow on the screen. One of the caveats of using a UST projector.


Do you think it works better with that KEF center speaker than having just the two floor standing with "phantom center"?


----------



## iitywygms

It's a big screen. The mains are about 10 ft apart. If I sit right in the center then yeah it's fine. But listening to a movie on either side. You only hear the voice come out of the speaker that's closest to you. With a screen this big it's got to have a center speaker imo.


----------



## HitchcockBirds

JimBob1971 said:


> I feel the sharpness issue has been overstated and most people will simply setup the projector and forget about it. (Having said that I run mine at 100”)
> 
> If you plan to use the projector as a monitor or to view games with lots of text then it won’t be the best option. If you want to use it to play high def movies then it will give your local cinema a run for its money.


I'd say the JVC NZ9 would give your local cinema a run for its money but that's an entirely different beast. I know that one doesn't have DoVi but is DoVi really necessary for a projector compared to a TV?


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> Im pretty sure awol is saying it’s the same lens in both units; did they tell you otherwise?


Yes they mentioned it in one of our early Zoom calls. The 3500 uses a high end Ricoh lens. 



HitchcockBirds said:


> I'd say the JVC NZ9 would give your local cinema a run for its money but that's an entirely different beast. I know that one doesn't have DoVi *but is DoVi really necessary for a projector compared to a TV?*


Yes, it is. 

More so in fact because flat panel TVs can get much brighter and darker so tone mapping is less of a factor with them than projectors which have a very limited nit and dynamic range in comparison. 

Have you ever been to a Dolby Cinema?


----------



## MRJAZZZ

iitywygms said:


> It's a big screen. The mains are about 10 ft apart. If I sit right in the center then yeah it's fine. But listening to a movie on either side. You only hear the voice come out of the speaker that's closest to you. With a screen this big it's got to have a center speaker imo.


If you don't have a "single" center channel you can use the normal Left/Right speakers but angle them in a good 30 degrees, or so. This will give you a " sense " that the sound is indeed coming from the center area of your screen. 
I had to go this direction when I decided to try UST .
I use a Floor Rising screen and it's not perforated, so I can't place a single center behind it. My only options were to lay a single center channel on the floor ( obviously not a good solution) or mount it way of the floor, on some kind of bracket/shelf arrangement ...also not a good solution and too difficult).

Finally decided just to use to relatively slim towers, angled sharply to create a center channel illusion......and It Works...and very well.🙂...I still have dedicated LR speakers in my 7.1.2 arrangement. 
Sew attached picture.
Cheers....


----------



## MRJAZZZ

MRJAZZZ said:


> If you don't have a "single" center channel you can use the normal Left/Right speakers but angle them in a good 30 degrees, or so. This will give you a " sense " that the sound is indeed coming from the center area of your screen.
> I had to go this direction when I decided to try UST .
> I use a Floor Rising screen and it's not perforated, so I can't place a single center behind it. My only options were to lay a single center channel on the floor ( obviously not a good solution) or mount it way of the floor, on some kind of bracket/shelf arrangement ...also not a good solution and too difficult).
> 
> Finally decided just to use to relatively slim towers, angled sharply to create a center channel illusion......and It Works...and very well.🙂...I still have dedicated LR speakers in my 7.1.2 arrangement.
> Sew attached picture.
> Cheers....
> View attachment 3350163


----------



## MRJAZZZ




----------



## JackB

iitywygms said:


> KEF wall mount center channel. I had tried using the matching center channel of my main speakers. But it was just too damn big and cast a shadow on the screen. One of the caveats of using a UST projector.


Never mind.


----------



## clipghost

iitywygms said:


> Well the cabinet is only so deep. So you can only slide 13 inches or so. It really is a very tight fit. I had to get 90° HDMI cables or else the cables wouldn't lets projector slide all the way back. They would hit the back of the cabinet.
> If you don't put any other equipment in the center of the besta stand, You could probably drop the projector another 5 in or so. I'm not exactly thrilled with high high the screen is now. If I could start all over again I would probably drop that cabinet down to the floor instead of having it 4 in off the floor. But I've always been one that likes the screen as low as possible. At least for my TVs.
> There is some sag with the drawer slides. I mounted the shelf level. But when the projector slides out it does bow it down a little bit. I remove the big rubber foot pad that's on the front of the projector and replaced it with a smaller one I happened to have. That dropped the front of the projector about a quarter inch. Then I was able to get everything nice and square just using the feet.


It definitely looks good, I may just leave it on the floor instead of mounting it, any reason why mounted? Just looks?


----------



## SmSnko

yes i know that formovie speakers are good. But i need more bass (subwofer) and rear speakers. So is it posible to listen sound from formovie speakers and connect subwoofer and rear speakers? This sonos 3D 7.1 is good after k read some reviews but costs 2100 dollars (soundbar, sub, 2 rear speakers)


----------



## RazB

SmSnko said:


> yes i know that formovie speakers are good. But i need more bass (subwofer) and rear speakers. So is it posible to listen sound from formovie speakers and connect subwoofer and rear speakers? This sonos 3D 7.1 is good after k read some reviews but costs 2100 dollars (soundbar, sub, 2 rear speakers)


You cannot use just a subwoofer with the Formovie's speakers unfortunately. I think this was already discussed here on this thread.

I really think for this price of the Sonos system you can get much better sound with a "traditional" sound system like I described (passive speakers, receiver and a subwoofer).
From your previous picture it looks like you have the room for it. Floor standing speakers are very easy to place, no need for stands, mounts or anything.
Placing a soundbar with a UST might be a bit awkward, the best place is pretty much in front of the projector, which might also be a bit low.
On the other hand placing a center channel is very problematic with UST, but you can find a "flat" on wall speaker to place just under the screen (like @iitywygms did) or see if just the two main (left and right) are good enough for you, creating a "phantom" center.

If you are sold on the Sonos you could go for it. Should work and it will be an upgrade to have a subwoofer with surrounds, but there is only so much a soundbar can deliver and for this price you can do much better and you'll have endless upgrading options.
You can get a better subwoofer later, you can get multiple subwoofers, add more speakers, height speakers/ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos and so on.
If your receiver becomes dated you can replace just it. If you want better main speakers you can upgrade just them while keeping all the rest for surround.
More complicated and will require research, but it would be a better investment for your money in my opinion.

Look into the Polk XT series (XT60 ot XT70 as mains), see if you can find a whole set with a subwoofer as well for a good price.
A good budget receiver to go with them could be the new Denon x2800h, might be still a bit pricey for staying on the same budget (+-2000 USD / EUR), but you could also go with other cheaper options. On the other hand you could go with the even more expensive Denon x3800h which supports up to 4 subwoofers! That's going to leave you quite some room to upgrade later.
Of course there are other receivers from other brands as well, but these two receivers could still be around your budget (even if a bit above it) and seem to offer very good value when it comes to specs and features.
There are far more expensive options, I'm just trying to aim for a similar cost like the Sonos system you wanted.


----------



## JackB

Is there a way to get something like Dynamic Contrast working on the Formovie. Although the contrast is pretty good I think it is missing that "pop" that great contrast shows. A hint of what I'm talking about shows up a little when I switch from OTB Movie to Standard. It seems a little better in "pop" but not enough.


----------



## JackB

What is the difference between Default under Display Preferences and Factory Reset?


----------



## 3sprit

The first resets all the images settings.
The second "deletes" any app you add, your wifi settings, any account you have saved (e.g. Google…), etc…


----------



## DesertDog

j-0 said:


> I would love to hear your thoughts on running the cable through the Vertex2 versus running it directly from your Apple TV to the GT1 in DV mode.
> 
> I used the run mine in DV mode, directly from Apple TV, combined with the settings from the ProjectorScreen.com UST showdown where it ranked first place (and where it was compared to some ultra high end projector). I have to say I have been very satisfied with those settings, but as I got a Vertex2 I wanted to try it out.
> 
> My main issue so far with the T1 is that I find the lens/image not to be perfectly sharp / and, as such, the image not as detailed as some of the ultra-expensive projectors (i.e. HU915QB).
> 
> That said, so far, based on my testing, each projector has some kind of issue, so pick your vice.
> 
> HU915QB has an extreme amount of RBE issues, and even using the standard Vertex2 settings for LLDV (so you can play Apple TV in DV mode even though the LG otherwise doesn't support DV mode), it reduced RBE issues.
> 
> Compared to the HU915QB, the T1 has minimal RBE IMO, so you may be particularly susceptible. There may be a chance that you see more RBE issues without using the Vertex2... Might be an interesting test for you. I would definitely experiment as that test would be very easy (just changing a wire and switching between modes) and shouldn't take much time
> 
> PS. With more than 105 pages in this thread, you wouldn't be any chance have a direct link to those Harpervision Vertex2 T1 settings do you 😂😂?
> 
> PPS. @DesertDog, if you need the projectorscreen.com T1 winning settings, just DM me


Ok, I've been playing with things all after noon and I've decided to drop Harpervision, sorry Dave, and I've put my Zidoo back into auto mode instead of using VS10 for everything. 

First on removing Harpervision, ie removing the HDFury EDID manipulation. I'm getting a better DV picture with it off using the demo clip off of the S&M disc. When using it I could not get the background on the horses to show. It was always blown out and too bright. As soon as I switched to the player's EDID the background appeared and the scene looked the best I've seen it. The mountain peak with the wispy clouds right before it also looked better and not as blown out of the sides of the peaks. The right side had more of its correct grey color to it and the left side is showing some detail in the cloud now where before it showed nothing. The rest of the clip generally looks better too. So in the HDFury I'm going to stick with TX0 passthrough and the DV as HDR flag turned off. 

The other change I made is Zidoo specific but I know there's a few users in this thread. I had the HDR set to VS10 for DV, HDR, and SDR. With that the all of the snow scenes in the demo were blown out playing the 1000 nit version of it. Switching to Auto caused all of the detail to come back. I was getting more wisps on the mountain peak and could see the background on the horses. It was still a little blown out compared to DV but much closer than with VS10. So for now I'm going to stick with Auto in it. 

I also tried changing from player lead LLDV in the Zidoo settings to TV lead DV. PQ was about the same for them but it felt like LLDV was a little smoother. The TV lead was a hair choppy on one of my DV demo videos (Chameleon). I've had issues with that one in the past though so it might be my copy. I'm going to download it again to see. Either way I stuck with LLDV for that setting since the PQ was the same but it felt smoother.


----------



## JackB

3sprit said:


> The first resets all the images settings.
> The second "deletes" any app you add, your wifi settings, any account you have saved (e.g. Google…), etc…


Does it reset them to the factory OTB settings?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> Yes they mentioned it in one of our early Zoom calls. The 3500 uses a high end Ricoh lens.


They say the same exact thing about the ltv-2500. Here is a recent quote from their president:


----------



## ProjectionHead

RazB said:


> You cannot use just a subwoofer with the Formovie's speakers unfortunately. I think this was already discussed here on this thread.


You can use a subwoofer but you will have to control its volume separately from the projector.


----------



## iitywygms

clipghost said:


> It definitely looks good, I may just leave it on the floor instead of mounting it, any reason why mounted? Just looks?


Just looks


----------



## 3sprit

JackB said:


> Does it reset them to the factory OTB settings?


It should help you:


https://www.mynokia.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/Nokia_Smart_TV_User_Manual.pdf


----------



## HitchcockBirds

Dave Harper said:


> Yes they mentioned it in one of our early Zoom calls. The 3500 uses a high end Ricoh lens.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it is.
> 
> More so in fact because flat panel TVs can get much brighter and darker so tone mapping is less of a factor with them than projectors which have a very limited nit and dynamic range in comparison.
> 
> Have you ever been to a Dolby Cinema?


Fair enough but wouldn't the HDFury Vvroom help with that?


----------



## mcollin6

kraine said:


> Quick summarize comparaison Formovie Theater vs Epson EH-LS800
> 
> Brightness : advantage Epson
> Contrast : Equals (correction advantage Formovie "native")
> Sharpness : Formovie
> Fluidity : Epson
> Sound quality : Epson (The Yamaha System with the SW !)
> Dolby Vision and HDR : Formovie
> SmartTV functions : Epson
> Connectivity : Formovie (What annoys me the most on this device are the plugs under the shell of the device, why not place them in the same place as almost all the USTs on the side facing the screen? It's an aberration)
> Colorimetry : Formovie with his larger Gamut and better colors corrections options
> 
> I will keep the Formovie comparing the Epson but the LS800 is a really good choice and will desserve an mondoprojos Gold Award


Where did you get your evaluations from? I read everything that was out on the projectors and found the following specs…


----------



## 3sprit

mcollin6 said:


> Where did you get your evaluations from? I read everything that was out on the projectors and found the following specs…


He reviews the products and then measures them.
There are the data declared by the manufacturer and there are the real data…


----------



## g3m

JackB said:


> Is there a way to get something like Dynamic Contrast working on the Formovie. Although the contrast is pretty good I think it is missing that "pop" that great contrast shows. A hint of what I'm talking about shows up a little when I switch from OTB Movie to Standard. It seems a little better in "pop" but not enough.


In Advanced Picture settings, try Adaptive Luma Control "Strong" and Local Contrast Control "Medium". By default, I believe Movie mode as none of these 2 settings activated and Standard Mode has them activated to middle. This is why you are seeing a difference in contrast when going from Movie Mode to Standard mode. I would suggest using the User Mode to play with different picture settings to avoid modifying the default picture modes.


----------



## anethema

Looks like I’m going to order a Formovie Theatre and just pay for a calibration.
Not having luck finding it in this thread as it is so long but has anyone had theirs calibrated and posted the full settings list change ?


----------



## RazB

anethema said:


> Looks like I’m going to order a Formovie Theatre and just pay for a calibration.
> Not having luck finding it in this thread as it is so long but has anyone had theirs calibrated and posted the full settings list change ?


Calibration settings are not going to be eaqule between different units. Each projector has to be measured and adjusted individually in order to hit the right spots on the charts.
You would benefit from having an accurate image presentation of a calibrated projector (or other displays in general), but is it a must? The answer would be no, it isn't.

My projector for one hasn't been calibrated. I will probably fiddle a bit more with the settings and use patterns to dial it in better later on when I will have the time for it.
Still I can tell you that out of the box the picture isn't bad at all and you can still enjoy it very much. I did tinker somewhat and made sure that some image processing options are off/set to my liking, but I still didn't really dig into it.

There was some sort of "user guide" created by a fella member here for the Formovie Theater, it had some initial suggestions and settings, other members contributed to it as well. I don't have the time to look for it now, but I can at least try to narrow down the range of pages where it should be found at, I believe it is going to be somewhere between page 60 to 80.

If you are willing to pay the calibration cost and don't like to mess around with settings and research the whole thing, then it could be worth it for you. Even if you learn some basic calibration procedures (using patterns) you will never be able to achieve the same results. That requires professional grade equipment, deep knowledge and experience. This is what you will be paying for basically.
In my case I'm okay with not having a close to 100% accurate image and I have enough knowledge/skills to still dial it in good enough for my own taste. Probably won't have the time to do that for the next couple of months, but that's a different problem


----------



## Brajesh

See this Google doc for a couple of suggested settings. Settings will also vary with screen type, and I think all those were with ALR screens. As mine's a 1.3 gain white non-ALR, I decided to just use the preset Movie mode, with color temp warm, Adaptive luma control strong, Local contrast control low (or medium), and DV Bright. From here, I plan to play around with brightness vs. contrast, and RGB gain values. @kraine shared with the last 3 Theater units he calibrated, here's how they varied:

Red gain : 6
Green gain : - 4
Blue gain : - 28

Red gain : 19
Green gain : 3
Blue Gain: - 37

Red Gain: 0
Green Gain: 0
Blue Gain: - 38

So, it looks like Blue needs significant reducing, green around +/- zero & red more depending. For others who've professionally calibrated, are you seeing similar?


----------



## 3sprit

The "black bars" of my Theater are very bright. Too much. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## anethema

Brajesh said:


> See this Google doc for a couple of suggested settings. Settings will also vary with screen type, and I think all those were with ALR screens. As mine's a 1.3 gain white non-ALR, I decided to just use the preset Movie mode, with color temp warm, Adaptive luma control strong, Local contrast control low (or medium), and DV Bright. From here, I plan to play around with brightness vs. contrast, and RGB gain values. @kraine shared with the last 3 Theater units he calibrated, here's how they varied:
> 
> Red gain : 6
> Green gain : - 4
> Blue gain : - 28
> 
> Red gain : 19
> Green gain : 3
> Blue Gain: - 37
> 
> Red Gain: 0
> Green Gain: 0
> Blue Gain: - 38
> 
> So, it looks like Blue needs significant reducing, green around +/- zero & red more depending. For others who've professionally calibrated, are you seeing similar?


Thanks I will check that out when mine comes !


----------



## DeniDoman

Hi! I want to buy a soundbar with a surround sound (including separate rear speakers) and connect it via HDMI ARC. 

Has anyone checked if it support 5.1 or 7.1 sound via HDMI ARC? I don't want to spend 1000+ USD to receiver, and have no place for it.


----------



## kraine

I made two small comparative montages to gauge the accuracy of a DLP 4K XPR (Formovie Theater) against Epson's new laser tri-LCD with 4K simulation, the LS800.

I purposely used the "weak corner" of the Formovie in the picture with the numbers (the upper left corner).












The second photo is taken on the word "overscan" which is at the very top in the middle of the overscan test pattern in the avsforums suite.


----------



## noonsa

DeniDoman said:


> Hi! I want to buy a soundbar with a surround sound (including separate rear speakers) and connect it via HDMI ARC.
> 
> Has anyone checked if it support 5.1 or 7.1 sound via HDMI ARC? I don't want to spend 1000+ USD to receiver, and have no place for it.


It has eARC so should be no problem.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Does anyone have an XBOX Series X? I'm having issues. Apparently it is a EDID issue. 



eezrider said:


> I have it working with my XBox One X and will try with a Series X later this week. The problem is that the T1 seems to frequently drop back to HDMI 1.4 on rebooting even if it shows that it is set to 2.0 or 2.1. I and several others have reported this. The fix is to switch the HDMI "play setting" on the projector once connected. Just switch to any other setting and then back to HDMI 2.0 or 2.1. You will lose the image momentarily as the XBox resyncs and hopefully you'll then have 4K and DV support. Unfortunately, this has not yet been fixed in the 2.0 firmware. If this is the problem, then please report it to Fengmi ([email protected]). The more people report this issue the more likely we'll see a fix soon.
> 
> Interestingly, with my XBox One it syncs at 1080p in HDMI 1.4 and not 480p. So, what you're seeing may be something else.


----------



## Brajesh

I have one. Setting to 4K/60 and HDMI2.1 work, but I am feeding it to my Formovie via a HDFury.


----------



## MarcusD777

94SupraTT said:


> Does anyone have an XBOX Series X? I'm having issues. Apparently it is a EDID issue.


I am using a Series X with the Global T1 fed through an HD Fury Vertex 2 and have had zero issues. Excellent tone mapping for DV with the HD Fury/T1 combo.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Can one of you try connecting your XSX to your T1 without the Fury to see if you have the same issue without it?


----------



## Sonny Red

94SupraTT said:


> Does anyone have an XBOX Series X? I'm having issues. Apparently it is a EDID issue.


What is the issue for you ?

I have a Xbox Series X with my Formovie Theater. The issue for me is that the HDMI 1 is no usable. When I plug the Xbox I cannot set in 4K only 480p. I have to un toggled HDMI auto detection in the Xbox settings but no 4K only 1440p at most. No issue with the PS5 on the same input which is weird.

my set up will be different when I get my cabinet as I will plug my HDFury VRROOM and the only HDMI which will be used on the Formovie Theatee will be the HDMI 3


----------



## harpss1ngh

I have an x-rite i1 display calibrator, has anyone had any luck using or similar that to calibrate the projector? If so how and what profiles in DisplayCAL did you use?

Also, I have a weird issue with the remote control. Soemtimes it stops responding and I have to pull the plug and hope it works. Sometimes I have to resort to using the Google TV app remote feature to repair the bluetooth remote.


----------



## anethema

harpss1ngh said:


> I have an x-rite i1 display calibrator, has anyone had any luck using or similar that to calibrate the projector? If so how and what profiles in DisplayCAL did you use?
> 
> Also, I have a weird issue with the remote control. Soemtimes it stops responding and I have to pull the plug and hope it works. Sometimes I have to resort to using the Google TV app remote feature to repair the bluetooth remote.


I'd seen someone post about this before and found this fairly informative seeming post:









x-rite i1 Display Pro as a Projector Calibrator?


Years ago I bought one of these devices on sale to calibrate my projector. Never opened it. Now that I have an HT2550 I want to try and get the most of its color as I can. However I'm now reading that this unit isn't very great at calibrating projectors? Is there a similarly priced unit that...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## harpss1ngh

Btw since people are talking about cabinets, I modified 3 Ikea Platsa cabinets (80mm x 40mm x 55) for mine:


----------



## RazB

kraine said:


> I made two small comparative montages to gauge the accuracy of a DLP 4K XPR (Formovie Theater) against Epson's new laser tri-LCD with 4K simulation, the LS800.
> 
> I purposely used the "weak corner" of the Formovie in the picture with the numbers (the upper left corner).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second photo is taken on the word "overscan" which is at the very top in the middle of the overscan test pattern in the avsforums suite.


An interesting comparison! The text and digits clearly show the resolution advantage of the DLP 4K XPR (x4 shift) over the 3LCD (x2 shift).
I don't know how obvious it would while watching content, but the difference is there, you do lose half of the resolution with the LCD and it shows. The right highly detailed footage would probably reveal it as well, especially on larger screens.


----------



## RazB

harpss1ngh said:


> Btw since people are talking about cabinets, I modified 3 Ikea Platsa cabinets (80mm x 40mm x 55) for mine:
> View attachment 3351270
> 
> View attachment 3351269
> 
> View attachment 3351268


Not bad at all! A very nice design, though a darker colour (well... black) would probably work a lot better absorbing light.
Is ventilation sufficient for the projector? No heat distortion / ripples showing on the screen?


----------



## JimBob1971

This talk of subwoofers has me wondering how the Formovie would pair with a Sony HT-A9 and SW5. The sound is great for a projector (although perhaps not as good as the LS800). I’d love to hear how the Sony machines went with the Formovie.


----------



## clipghost

harpss1ngh said:


> Btw since people are talking about cabinets, I modified 3 Ikea Platsa cabinets (80mm x 40mm x 55) for mine:
> View attachment 3351270
> 
> View attachment 3351269
> 
> View attachment 3351268


Looks nice! Links to the parts that make this work? Does the shelf just come off?


----------



## harpss1ngh

RazB said:


> Not bad at all! A very nice design, though a darker colour (well... black) would probably work a lot better absorbing light.
> Is ventilation sufficient for the projector? No heat distortion / ripples showing on the screen?


Yeah it's aesthetics over function as white was more appropriate for the room and also the white vivdstorm screen, but the ALR does a great job and it's not too distracting.

I haven't noticed heat distortion or anything like that, just dust falling on the lens adds weird artifacts, blowing the lens with air fixes that. The cabinet sits near the bay window which is a bit cooler so that helps with heat as well, I can also open the windows a crack as the room may get slightly warmer which may also help with the heat but I have not noticed any issues. I could measure the heat with a IR heat gun but the vents only seem a bit warm, not hot.


----------



## harpss1ngh

clipghost said:


> Looks nice! Links to the parts that make this work? Does the shelf just come off?


The shelf is using soft close drawer slides from Amazon, it just sits on them so when in use it can be slid out. I also cut the shelf so that the drawer slides could fit so i took off 10mm each side , the slides has a nub on both sides at the back so I had to cut a notch on each side of the shelf for it. Also you can make out two orange clips under the shelf, those are screwed into the shelf, they click into the slides so it holds them in place, when removing the shelf you unclip them. Could motorise it to come out automatically with the screen. The cabinet has a separate top which I cut in half and I just take off when in use. The cabinet top underneath it I cut a U in to allow the laser beam through. It's fairly simple. Also like the Besta cabinet which this is similar to, there is only solid wood in 2-4cm around the existing mounting holes, the rest are hollow so you need to be mindful when you buy and install drawer slides for the shelf, that you drill through the particleboard not the hollow parts filled with paper. Also wear ffp3 mask when cutting as the fine dust particles are pretty toxic for your lungs and you will be sick for a day or 2 after breathing that all in.

3x PLATSA white, Frame, width: 80 cm 55 cm height: 40 cm - IKEA
3x SPILDRA white, Top for storage module, 80x55 cm - IKEA
4x FONNES white, Drawer front, 80x20 cm - IKEA
4x HJÄLPA white, Drawer without front, 80x55 cm - IKEA
1x HJÄLPA white, Shelf, 80x55 cm - IKEA

Edge banding to cover the cuts: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B087Z9LC2F/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Alternatively Silicon U shape edge banding: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09ZQRGC2G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0B51QMNKX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (the shelf and top's are different thicknesses)
(I used both)

Extra screws for the shelf: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09W2Z7DVF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Drawer slides I used: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01MSWH1KD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## DesertDog

harpss1ngh said:


> I have an x-rite i1 display calibrator, has anyone had any luck using or similar that to calibrate the projector? If so how and what profiles in DisplayCAL did you use?
> 
> Also, I have a weird issue with the remote control. Soemtimes it stops responding and I have to pull the plug and hope it works. Sometimes I have to resort to using the Google TV app remote feature to repair the bluetooth remote.


It was my understanding that neither it nor the SpyderX work correctly with laser projectors. That you have to go up to the more expensive calibration equipment for them. Someone please tell me if I'm wrong. And please make me wrong. It'll give me more options.


----------



## rjyap

DesertDog said:


> It was my understanding that neither it nor the SpyderX work correctly with laser projectors. That you have to go up to the more expensive calibration equipment for them. Someone please tell me if I'm wrong. And please make me wrong. It'll give me more options.


Yep. You need to profile the colorimeter against spectrometer preferable able to read below 5nm wavelength due to narrow wavelength of tri-laser light spectrum.


----------



## prade

mcollin6 said:


> Where did you get your evaluations from? I read everything that was out on the projectors and found the following specs…
> 
> View attachment 3350523


My impression is RBE is not possible with 3 chip DLP technology…Am I wrong on this?


----------



## 94SupraTT

Sonny Red said:


> What is the issue for you ?
> 
> I have a Xbox Series X with my Formovie Theater. The issue for me is that the HDMI 1 is no usable. When I plug the Xbox I cannot set in 4K only 480p. I have to un toggled HDMI auto detection in the Xbox settings but no 4K only 1440p at most. No issue with the PS5 on the same input which is weird.
> 
> my set up will be different when I get my cabinet as I will plug my HDFury VRROOM and the only HDMI which will be used on the Formovie Theatee will be the HDMI 3


HDMI 1 works but won't go above 640 x 480. HDMI 2 will turn on and after a few seconds the screen will go black and display an error. I'm able to get it to display 4K.


----------



## Dave Harper

prade said:


> My impression is RBE is not possible with 3 chip DLP technology…Am I wrong on this?


That’s true but none of those are 3 chip DLPs. Two are 3 *LASER* RGB single chip DLPs and one is a 3 chip LCD.


----------



## Brajesh

@Dave Harper, are you still planning to share your suggested settings sans HDFury? And possibly a set for those of us with 1.0-1.3 gain white screen in a dark room?🙏🤞


----------



## prade

Dave Harper said:


> That’s true but none of those are 3 chip DLPs. Two are 3 *LASER* RGB single chip DLPs and one is a 3 chip LCD.


Thank you!!! This has been a very confusing topic as a projector newbie!


----------



## Odysea

kraine said:


> I made two small comparative montages to gauge the accuracy of a DLP 4K XPR (Formovie Theater) against Epson's new laser tri-LCD with 4K simulation, the LS800.
> 
> I purposely used the "weak corner" of the Formovie in the picture with the numbers (the upper left corner).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second photo is taken on the word "overscan" which is at the very top in the middle of the overscan test pattern in the avsforums suite.


What size is this at out of curiosity?


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> An interesting comparison! The text and digits clearly show the resolution advantage of the DLP 4K XPR (x4 shift) over the 3LCD (x2 shift).
> I don't know how obvious it would while watching content, but the difference is there, you do lose half of the resolution with the LCD and it shows. The right highly detailed footage would probably reveal it as well, especially on larger screens.


It was very obvious on an Epson 5050. Isn’t this the same panel?


----------



## clipghost

Dave Harper said:


> That’s true but none of those are 3 chip DLPs. Two are 3 *LASER* RGB single chip DLPs and one is a 3 chip LCD.


Which ones?


----------



## Dave Harper

clipghost said:


> Which ones?


ForMovie and AWOL are triple laser DLPs and the Epson LS800 is a 3LCD.


----------



## Dave Harper

Brajesh said:


> @Dave Harper, are you still planning to share your suggested settings sans HDFury? And possibly a set for those of us with 1.0-1.3 gain white screen in a dark room?


I believe if you bought your projector from ProjectorScreen.com then they will share the settings for it from the laser TV showdown which didn’t include an HDFury, shown on a Spectra Projection CLR screen. 

I would have to wait until I build my Stewart StudioTek 130 screen again to get any measurements on that because I only have a CineGrey 3D and vividstorm 120 inch CLR set up right now.


----------



## Brajesh

I did--@ProjectionHead, can you please PM me the settings? Thanks.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> I believe if you bought your projector from ProjectorScreen.com then they will share the settings for it from the laser TV showdown which didn’t include an HDFury, shown on a Spectra Projection CLR screen.
> 
> I would have to wait until I build my Stewart StudioTek 130 screen again to get any measurements on that because I only have a CineGrey 3D and vividstorm 120 inch CLR set up right now.


They will be published in an upcoming blog post that Dave is writing about Formovie settings and optimization (including his personal HarperVision flair), but @Dave Harper you are free to send to @Brajesh now. Just please don’t publish them before we do.


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> It was very obvious on an Epson 5050. Isn’t this the same panel?


Well, even if it isn't exactly the same one I believe not much has changed. Both are 3-LCD 1080p pixel shifted 2 times for half the resolution of 4K.

For that matter not that much has changed with DLPs either.
There were first and second gen XPR DLP supporting 4K (with pixel shift), but it wasn't all that significant. The biggest leap since a while in DLP territory is with the USTs using ALPD technology, which combined with their optimized light path and laser engine/engines give us superior contrast, black levels and colour gamut (without a need of a WCG filter I must add).

There is one relatively new DLP chip, it is a 0.65" 1080p x4 shift, which brings better native contrast ratio compared to the 0.47" and the older 0.66" (which had a resolution of 2716x1528 and shifts only twice). This new 0.65" chip still didn't get much use yet for all I know, but in long throw projectors it showed a contrast ratio of 1500:1, which is about twice of the 0.47" with long throw, but still half of what projectors like the Formovie Theater can deliver with the 0.47" combined with ALPD 4.0.
Would be very interesting to see an ALPD UST using the 0.65" chip! Native contrast ratio of 6000:1 (or better!) anyone?


----------



## mirzank

Having a super weird issue not sure how to fix really need help with it. I know some people already had an issue with the remote getting unpaired from the projector. In my case for months I had no issue but suddenly after a few weeks of not using the pj I found the remote wasn’t paired. Holding home and back button does nothing. 
I can’t go into the remote pairing option in android tv because obviously no working buttons. 
Tried unplugging and re plugging the pj. Also tried removing and reinserting batteries for a while from remote. Tried 3 pairs of new batteries. 
But nothing is working. I can even reset the pj since obviously the remote isn’t working. 

How can I go about paring the remote ? Or resetting the pj without the remote ?


----------



## cincylion

mirzank said:


> Having a super weird issue not sure how to fix really need help with it. I know some people already had an issue with the remote getting unpaired from the projector. In my case for months I had no issue but suddenly after a few weeks of not using the pj I found the remote wasn’t paired. Holding home and back button does nothing.
> I can’t go into the remote pairing option in android tv because obviously no working buttons.
> Tried unplugging and re plugging the pj. Also tried removing and reinserting batteries for a while from remote. Tried 3 pairs of new batteries.
> But nothing is working. I can even reset the pj since obviously the remote isn’t working.
> 
> How can I go about paring the remote ? Or resetting the pj without the remote ?


Could you try using the Google TV remote app?


----------



## mirzank

cincylion said:


> Could you try using the Google TV remote app?


Yes I tried but the issue is that this somehow magically combined with that wifi issue where my projector won’t connect to wifi so I can’t use the phone app


----------



## leo0111127

prade said:


> My impression is RBE is not possible with 3 chip DLP technology…Am I wrong on this?


3 chip DLP technology and RGB pure laser diode w/o color wheel source will cause no RBE.


----------



## mirzank

mirzank said:


> Having a super weird issue not sure how to fix really need help with it. I know some people already had an issue with the remote getting unpaired from the projector. In my case for months I had no issue but suddenly after a few weeks of not using the pj I found the remote wasn’t paired. Holding home and back button does nothing.
> I can’t go into the remote pairing option in android tv because obviously no working buttons.
> Tried unplugging and re plugging the pj. Also tried removing and reinserting batteries for a while from remote. Tried 3 pairs of new batteries.
> But nothing is working. I can even reset the pj since obviously the remote isn’t working.
> 
> How can I go about paring the remote ? Or resetting the pj without the remote ?


Anybody with some tips on this ? Struggling to use the pj in its current state given I can’t control anything.


----------



## Sonny Red

mirzank said:


> Anybody with some tips on this ? Struggling to use the pj in its current state given I can’t control anything.


It happened to me from time to time.

Each time it’s because the HDMI EDID is set back to « Auto » instead of « 2.1 »


----------



## RazB

@mirzank
This sounds very alarming... Sorry to hear about all this.
I have no idea what could actually help, it sound like you tried many things already. I really hope someone here can give you an input and assist you.
Did you try contacting Formovie directly? They should have an e-mail for support.


----------



## kissferenc60

RazB said:


> Well, even if it isn't exactly the same one I believe not much has changed. Both are 3-LCD 1080p pixel shifted 2 times for half the resolution of 4K.
> 
> For that matter not that much has changed with DLPs either.
> There were first and second gen XPR DLP supporting 4K (with pixel shift), but it wasn't all that significant. The biggest leap since a while in DLP territory is with the USTs using ALPD technology, which combined with their optimized light path and laser engine/engines give us superior contrast, black levels and colour gamut (without a need of a WCG filter I must add).
> 
> There is one relatively new DLP chip, it is a 0.65" 1080p x4 shift, which brings better native contrast ratio compared to the 0.47" and the older 0.66" (which had a resolution of 2716x1528 and shifts only twice). This new 0.65" chip still didn't get much use yet for all I know, but in long throw projectors it showed a contrast ratio of 1500:1, which is about twice of the 0.47" with long throw, but still half of what projectors like the Formovie Theater can deliver with the 0.47" combined with ALPD 4.0.
> Would be very interesting to see an ALPD UST using the 0.65" chip! Native contrast ratio of 6000:1 (or better!) anyone?


Hi RazB, I am from Hungary too. Could you contact me on [email protected].

Thanx


----------



## 3sprit

leo0111127 said:


> 3 chip DLP technology and RGB pure laser diode w/o color wheel source will cause no RBE.


I see occasional RBE on the Theater


----------



## antjes

3sprit said:


> I see occasional RBE on the Theater


T1 is not a 3 chip dlp proyector...it's monochip but trilaser

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## MRJAZZZ

3sprit said:


> I see occasional RBE on the Theater


So did I....unfortunately, however it was less frequent than on a typical ( non Tri Lazer) DLP display.


----------



## MarcusD777

Just a quick tip for watching older grainier non HDR film content. Enabling "Game Mode" on any preset, especially Movie Mode or your calibrated User Mode will take off additional processing. Local Contrast Control will not be able to be engaged even when selecting any of the Low, Medium, High presets and DI Film Mode, MEMC, and De-Counter will be inactive. I find this to provide a much more natural and cinematic image for older grainier film content. Any newer digitally shot film can take extra processing and Sharpness control without negatively effecting the image right away.


----------



## RazB

MRJAZZZ said:


> So did I....unfortunately, however it was less frequent than on a typical ( non Tri Lazer) DLP display.


With a single chip DLP the rainbow effect will always be there, therefore the Formovie Theater has it as well. It can be "improved" by flashing each colour channel faster, at a higher frequency. This can make the effect less noticeable and even unnoticeable for some, but it would still be there. The only "cure" would be a 3-chip system.

For one I do notice the RBE, but I just don't find it too distracting with the Formovie Theater.
Unless someone is overly sensitive to it, it shouldn't be a problem.

There are also some benefits for having a single chip, a simpler optical path, the RGB pixels are projected right on top of each other - no alignment issues, no drifting is possible.

Back to the Formovie Theater - it seems like the projector receives mostly good comments for it's RBE performance. It is likely that it's tri-laser engine allows rapid RGB flashing, which is at least somewhat faster than what we are used to from colour wheels and hence the improvement.
Speaking of colour wheels, they can cause some reliability issues as well, sometimes require cleaning. So I'm pretty glad the newer RGB light sources are becoming more commonly used in projectors. Additionally they are able to deliver a wider colour gamut which is another blessing.


----------



## JimBob1971

RazB said:


> With a single chip DLP the rainbow effect will always be there, therefore the Formovie Theater has it as well. It can be "improved" by flashing each colour channel faster, at a higher frequency. This can make the effect less noticeable and even unnoticeable for some, but it would still be there. The only "cure" would be a 3-chip system.
> 
> For one I do notice the RBE, but I just don't find it too distracting with the Formovie Theater.
> Unless someone is overly sensitive to it, it shouldn't be a problem.
> Back to the Formovie Theater - it seems like the projector receives mostly good comments for it's RBE performance. It is likely that it's tri-laser engine allows rapid RGB flashing, which is at least somewhat faster than what we are used to from colour wheels and hence the improvement.


I second the minimal RBE comment. I tried a few USTs (and regular PJs) and the Formovie is one I am happy to live with whereas the others went back immediately as I seem to be sensitive to RBE. I do see them occasionally on the Theater, but they do not distract in the way that they do in some projectors, either in intensity or frequency. If I absolutely have to watch rainbow free I have a little Epson EF12 that works a treat.


----------



## Nexgen76

I'm sorry if this has been answered, I'm new to this side of the forum. I wanted to know would this UST work with 135 acoustic transparent screen. My theater room is a batcave with no lights.


----------



## Dave Harper

Nexgen76 said:


> I'm sorry if this has been answered, I'm new to this side of the forum. I wanted to know would this UST work with 135 acoustic transparent screen. My theater room is a batcave with no lights.


What type of AT screen is it, microperf or weave?


----------



## Nexgen76

Dave Harper said:


> What type of AT screen is it, microperf or weave?


Elite screen woven.....


----------



## RickMes

Can anyone tell me if I will have decreased image quality from projecting into a CLR screen (Elite Aeon 90") with the projection screen installed a higher than the recommend top lower third at eyesight? Unless I replace my TV Furniture, but measurements are as follow:

Screens dimensions = 90" (Elite Aeon CLR - waiting for delivery)
Distance from floor to bottom edge of the image (57 cm furniture + 34 cm) = 91 cm
Sitting distance from screen = 3 m
Distance from floor to eyesight = around 1 m

Thanks!


----------



## spinforu

Kinda unrelated but I got some screen samples to test with the Formovie. Is it OK to tape to existing screen? Never really tried this before so excuse the dumb question


----------



## MartinK2593

mirzank said:


> Anybody with some tips on this ? Struggling to use the pj in its current state given I can’t control anything.


I have the same problem  , i get the Forovie few days ago, and suddendly the remote controller didn't work, i had to unplugg/replugg. I decided to unpair to pair again, but didn't work
Now when i press the 2 buttons, nothing happens.. can't huse the VP  .
Did you in a solution?


----------



## Odla

MartinK2593 said:


> I have the same problem  , i get the Forovie few days ago, and suddendly the remote controller didn't work, i had to unplugg/replugg. I decided to unpair to pair again, but didn't work
> Now when i press the 2 buttons, nothing happens.. can't huse the VP  .
> Did you in a solution?


----------



## Odla

Inserisci un mouse nella presa USB e poi seleziona telecomando


----------



## mirzank

Yes I had this problem and painful to fix. Also had the same issue that back and home button didn’t pair the remote. I ended up plugging in a Ethernet cable so I could access the projector with the google tv app. Ended up going into pairing menu and paired remote again. 
Super annoying issue I hope they manage to fix somehow.


----------



## 3sprit

Who can privately tell me where to buy a Vividstorm screen in Europe?
Thank you


----------



## harpss1ngh

mirzank said:


> Having a super weird issue not sure how to fix really need help with it. I know some people already had an issue with the remote getting unpaired from the projector. In my case for months I had no issue but suddenly after a few weeks of not using the pj I found the remote wasn’t paired. Holding home and back button does nothing.
> I can’t go into the remote pairing option in android tv because obviously no working buttons.
> Tried unplugging and re plugging the pj. Also tried removing and reinserting batteries for a while from remote. Tried 3 pairs of new batteries.
> But nothing is working. I can even reset the pj since obviously the remote isn’t working.
> 
> How can I go about paring the remote ? Or resetting the pj without the remote ?


I get this a lot annoyingly. I use the Google TV App to go to the remotes settings and remove the remote and then re-pair using the home and back buttons. Really annoying.

BTW the Google TV App uses Bluetooth not WiFi. Mine pairs via Bluetooth so I don't have the issue when the WiFI stops working. You can always try connecting a keyboard and mouse to the USB ports.

Anyone know if/when a new firmware update is coming out? I'm used to my Samsung devices doing monthly security updates. Android TV's all seem to get poor support.


----------



## harpss1ngh

3sprit said:


> Who can privately tell me where to buy a Vividstorm screen in Europe?
> Thank you


I got mine from a ebay store that's got a UK Warehouse. There's only 1-2 UK-based sellers. There is a vividstorm.eu site and another .eu vivdstorm site that seem reputable, they import from China but have a warehouse in the EU, possibly German?


----------



## Sonny Red

3sprit said:


> Who can privately tell me where to buy a Vividstorm screen in Europe?
> Thank you


vividstorm.eu


----------



## JackB

How do I connect my headphones using Bluetooth? Is it even possible?

Also, I just connected my Seagate drive with ripped concert videos to USB 1. When I go to Sources no USB entry shows up. Am I doing this right?


----------



## mirzank

For those having the remote losing connection to the pj I MAY have a solution that worked for me. 
Today my remote wasn’t working again and just randomly I go into my iPhone Bluetooth settings and see a “Remote RC” showing as connected. I didn’t remember this device. Remove the batteries from my PJ controller and device shows not connected! 
So I did forget device on my iPhone Bluetooth settings and guess what, right after I was able to turn on my projector no pairing needed ! 
I have never paired my Bluetooth remote with my phone and would have no reason to so it’s super odd that it was connected !


----------



## JimBob1971

Anyone had their Formovie calibrated? Does it reduce brightness in anyway? Is it worth the effort compared to the standard picture? Thanks


----------



## mphilamp

JimBob1971 said:


> Anyone had their Formovie calibrated? Does it reduce brightness in anyway? Is it worth the effort compared to the standard picture? Thanks


Yes I think it's really worth the effort/price


----------



## 3sprit

harpss1ngh said:


> I got mine from a ebay store that's got a UK Warehouse. There's only 1-2 UK-based sellers. There is a vividstorm.eu site and another .eu vivdstorm site that seem reputable, they import from China but have a warehouse in the EU, possibly German?


If I buy in the UK I have to pay additional taxes (VAT and duty). 🤷‍♂️


----------



## 3sprit

Sonny Red said:


> vividstorm.eu


Read above 😉


----------



## 3sprit

JimBob1971 said:


> Anyone had their Formovie calibrated? Does it reduce brightness in anyway? Is it worth the effort compared to the standard picture? Thanks


I would say it loses little brightness.


----------



## 3sprit

What is the DRC DTS option in the audio preferences, what is it for?


----------



## JackB

Has anyone been able to get their USB sticks or drives to work on the USB ports on the Formovie?


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> Has anyone been able to get their USB sticks or drives to work on the USB ports on the Formovie?


Nope...
We had a conversation about it here not too long ago. To me it looks like the Formovie only supports FAT32 formatted drives. The problem with this format is the max supported file size of 4GB. Not so useful nowadays...
I don't have any FAT32 thumbdrive / HDD anymore so I cannot put my suspicion to the test, but maybe someone else here has.


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> Nope...
> We had a conversation about it here not too long ago. To me it looks like the Formovie only supports FAT32 formatted drives. The problem with this format is the max supported file size of 4GB. Not so useful nowadays...
> I don't have any FAT32 thumbdrive / HDD anymore so I cannot put my suspicion to the test, but maybe someone else here has.


How do you know what format your drive is?


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> How do you know what format your drive is?


On Windows:
Right click on the drive, go to *properties*.
There you'll see the file system.


----------



## Brajesh

So, some good news... big thanks to @spocky12 for guiding me through adb commands & getting into the system menus inside GT1, I was able to access the engineering menu. Only issue is that 90% of it, main menu and sub-menus, are in Chinese. If this mimics the Chinese T1, and someone can guide me, I can try to get to the focus settings (like in Chinese T1) to better dial it in w/GT1. Or, we need to wait for @spocky12 to return from a vacation he's leaving for & work on a new Projectivy for GT1.


----------



## Brajesh

Aaagh, don't you love technology?!  Google Translate app... too bad I'm going on a work trip until the weekend, but you know what I'll be doing this weekend!


----------



## JimBob1971

RazB said:


> Nope...
> We had a conversation about it here not too long ago. To me it looks like the Formovie only supports FAT32 formatted drives. The problem with this format is the max supported file size of 4GB. Not so useful nowadays...
> I don't have any FAT32 thumbdrive / HDD anymore so I cannot put my suspicion to the test, but maybe someone else here has.


Yup, I tried an NTFS drive with a very large 4K movie, no go.


----------



## zoomx2

Have you been able to access autofocus? I can read Chinese if you need help.


----------



## rjyap

Brajesh said:


> So, some good news... big thanks to @spocky12 for guiding me through adb commands & getting into the system menus inside GT1, I was able to access the engineering menu. Only issue is that 90% of it, main menu and sub-menus, are in Chinese. If this mimics the Chinese T1, and someone can guide me, I can try to get to the focus settings (like in Chinese T1) to better dial it in w/GT1. Or, we need to wait for @spocky12 to return from a vacation he's leaving for & work on a new Projectivy for GT1.
> View attachment 3354097


Great news! Now if Spocky can could reverse engineer the CMS menu and enable that for Fengmi T1 unit.


----------



## rjyap

3sprit said:


> What is the DRC DTS option in the audio preferences, what is it for?


Dynamic Range Compression. Only useful when you are in noisy environment where all the subtle sound will be louder thus lower dynamic range. For quiet HT, prefer no compression.


----------



## Brajesh

zoomx2 said:


> Have you been able to access autofocus? I can read Chinese if you need help.


Won't have time to explore until the weekend . But, will take you up on Chinese translation if Google Translate fails me, thanks.


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> On Windows:
> Right click on the drive, go to *properties*.
> There you'll see the file system.


The disc is NTFS. The videos in the drive are all .mkv. Is there a way to get them to play on the Formovie? I have a Roku and Firestick playing through a Denon receiver. The Denon has a USB connection on the face panel. It is a 2015 model. I hooked the Segate drive up to the Roku Ultra, which has a USB port for this but I couldn't figure out how to get to the video. I used VLC to access the disk but, although it found the "Video" folder that had multiple folders with a .MKV file in each(I only knew this from looking at it on my W10 PC), the .mkv file wasn't listed in the folder on the Roku.

I'm hoping it's just a pathing problem but that is over my head. How can I get VLC to find the .mkv file?


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> The disc is NTFS. The videos in the drive are all .mkv. Is there a way to get them to play on the Formovie? I have a Roku and Firestick playing through a Denon receiver. The Denon has a USB connection on the face panel. It is a 2015 model. I hooked the Segate drive up to the Roku Ultra, which has a USB port for this but I couldn't figure out how to get to the video. I used VLC to access the disk but, although it found the "Video" folder that had multiple folders with a .MKV file in each(I only knew this from looking at it on my W10 PC), the .mkv file wasn't listed in the folder on the Roku.
> 
> I'm hoping it's just a pathing problem but that is over my head. How can I get VLC to find the .mkv file?


Hmm... Never used a Roku, but did a bit of Googling and found there is something called "Roku Media Player" which is a channel (what?...). You can get it from Roku's Channel Store and once you have it you can browse through your usb drive, locate the files and hopefully play them as well.
Good luck!


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> Hmm... Never used a Roku, but did a bit of Googling and found there is something called "Roku Media Player" which is a channel (what?...). You can get it from Roku's Channel Store and once you have it you can browse through your usb drive, locate the files and hopefully play them as well.
> Good luck!


Thanks. I was able to find that player and bring up the Video folder. But then when I would go to the sub folders, each of which had the .mkv concert video in it, the .mkv didn't show up when I opened that folder. Do players like The Roku player usually have settings that tell what file types they support? Is .mkv a file type that's universal and usually supported by these players?


----------



## JackB

Brajesh said:


> So, some good news... big thanks to @spocky12 for guiding me through adb commands & getting into the system menus inside GT1, I was able to access the engineering menu. Only issue is that 90% of it, main menu and sub-menus, are in Chinese. If this mimics the Chinese T1, and someone can guide me, I can try to get to the focus settings (like in Chinese T1) to better dial it in w/GT1. Or, we need to wait for @spocky12 to return from a vacation he's leaving for & work on a new Projectivy for GT1.
> View attachment 3354097


Brajesh,

My problem is the opposite. I find too much of the video looks like it has the soap opera effect. Sometimes I find the MEMC on Middle but turning it off doesn't usually have a great effect.


----------



## RazB

Hi @JackB ,
I read that the Roku should support .mkv files, but mkv is just a container and can contain various codecs/formats of both video and audio, in multiple tracks as well, all in one file. Unfortunately the Roku seems to be very peaky with those codecs it supports, which might be where the problem lies.
Would still expect the file to show up, even if playback isn't supported.
Do you have any other files to test?

You could also try asking about this matter on a dedicated forum, but it might just be that Roku Ultra isn't the best player when it comes to local files, being so peaky.

I'm not an expert, but many recommend the Zidoo Z9X which should be very good at playing local files, it isn't really meant for streaming though (which the Roku might do better).
The nVidia Sheild *Pro* is also an option, should be very good option for streaming and does support various files/formats/codecs. However, you'll need to install some third-party media player from the Play Store, there isn't one included and pre-installed (which isn't such a big deal).
The Zidoo should still have the upper hand for local files and if the Roku covers your other needs it might be the better choice.
There are also some Dune-HD devices, similar to the Zidoo, I just cannot give a specific recommendation, I'm not familiar enough with these.

As for the soap opera effect, I really cannot stand it myself, therefore I have MEMC set to off *always*. Absolutely hate any motion smoothing.
Yet if the video you are watching was recorded and made to be played at 60 or 50fps it will be natively "soap opera-ish".
If your source video was shot at 24fps, like most movies and series, it shouldn't have a soap opera effect unless you have some motion smoothing going on.

There is one different issue, most UST projectors (but some other displays as well), including the Formovie Theater, always operate at 60hz. They might support different refresh rates as input, but it will always runs at 60hz.
A movie shot at 24 fps will be played with a 3:2 pull down. Basically every other frame is duplicated 3 or 2 times, to fit over a refresh rate of 60hz. This method has been in use for decades for television broadcast in NTSC countries (like the USA) for this exact reason.
Motion, as a result, is not as smooth as of a display capable of changing it's refresh rate, some people are more sensitive to it, but it is nothing like the soap opera effect caused by motion smoothing algorithms.
In the case of the Formovie I prefer feeding it a 60hz signal and let the player, which in my case is a PC, handle the 3:2 pull-down conversion. Performance can vary with different hardware and players, some might not do so well and cause jittery motion. I might still experiment with feeding it a 24hz signal, but since I'm only using a PC at the moment, it isn't so convenient for operation.


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> Hi @JackB ,
> I read that the Roku should support .mkv files, but mkv is just a container and can contain various codecs/formats of both video and audio, in multiple tracks as well, all in one file. Unfortunately the Roku seems to be very peaky with those codecs it supports, which might be where the problem lies.
> Would still expect the file to show up, even if playback isn't supported.
> Do you have any other files to test?
> 
> You could also try asking about this matter on a dedicated forum, but it might just be that Roku Ultra isn't the best player when it comes to local files, being so peaky.
> 
> I'm not an expert, but many recommend the Zidoo Z9X which should be very good at playing local files, it isn't really meant for streaming though (which the Roku might do better).
> The nVidia Sheild *Pro* is also an option, should be very good option for streaming and does support various files/formats/codecs. However, you'll need to install some third-party media player from the Play Store, there isn't one included and pre-installed (which isn't such a big deal).
> The Zidoo should still have the upper hand for local files and if the Roku covers your other needs it might be the better choice.
> There are also some Dune-HD devices, similar to the Zidoo, I just cannot give a specific recommendation, I'm not familiar enough with these.
> 
> As for the soap opera effect, I really cannot stand it myself, therefore I have MEMC set to off *always*. Absolutely hate any motion smoothing.
> Yet if the video you are watching was recorded and made to be played at 60 or 50fps it will be natively "soap opera-ish".
> If your source video was shot at 24fps, like most movies and series, it shouldn't have a soap opera effect unless you have some motion smoothing going on.
> 
> There is one different issue, most UST projectors (but some other displays as well), including the Formovie Theater, always operate at 60hz. They might support different refresh rates as input, but it will always runs at 60hz.
> A movie shot at 24 fps will be played with a 3:2 pull down. Basically every other frame is duplicated 3 or 2 times, to fit over a refresh rate of 60hz. This method has been in use for decades for television broadcast in NTSC countries (like the USA) for this exact reason.
> Motion, as a result, is not as smooth as of a display capable of changing it's refresh rate, some people are more sensitive to it, but it is nothing like the soap opera effect caused by motion smoothing algorithms.
> In the case of the Formovie I prefer feeding it a 60hz signal and let the player, which in my case is a PC, handle the 3:2 pull-down conversion. Performance can vary with different hardware and players, some might not do so well and cause jittery motion. I might still experiment with feeding it a 24hz signal, but since I'm only using a PC at the moment, it isn't so convenient for operation.


Thanks for the detailed reply. I am in the process of copying the .mkv videos out of their individual folders up two levels. There was one already there that did work with the Roku player. Hopefully putting the rest of them there will work. It also makes getting to each video two clicks quicker.

Im a little confused, common with my small brain, on the frame rate issue. If the player(s) have Frame Rate Match option and the movie is sent to the Formovie at 24fps to be then converted to 60fps, why do the Frame Rate Match in the first place? Wouldn’t that add an additional conversion step that could only serve to lessen the picture quality?


----------



## DesertDog

I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:









I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back. 

I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.

Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. I am in the process of copying the .mkv videos out of their individual folders up two levels. There was one already there that did work with the Roku player. Hopefully putting the rest of them there will work. It also makes getting to each video two clicks quicker.
> 
> Im a little confused, common with my small brain, on the frame rate issue. If the player(s) have Frame Rate Match option and the movie is sent to the Formovie at 24fps to be then converted to 60fps, why do the Frame Rate Match in the first place? Wouldn’t that add an additional conversion step that could only serve to lessen the picture quality?


If the players matches the output frame rate to the file's frame rate there is not conversion. It takes place only once with the projector.
Take in mind that the projector does except a 24hz signal, so that's all that the player can care about.

Nevertheless, with a 3:2 pulldown the image isn't altered in any way, a single frame is just being duplicated 3 or 2 times, but they remain identical (duplicates). With motion smoothing on the other hand, the image is in fact altered, the algorithm tries to artificially build frames which don't exist in between existing frame, to fill up the 60 frames per second, instead of simply duplicating them. That gives the smoother motion, some may like it, but for me it gives the "soap opera" effect, making it look like a "cheap" soap opera shot with video cameras from the 70's-80's-90's.

24fps was the standard in cinema pretty much since the introduction of sound about 100 years ago, this is what most still perceive as "cinematic", the smooth motion we saw on broadcast television is overly smooth in comparison (over twice the refresh rate on the video signal).

The Hobbit back in 2012, ten years ago, tried to change the standard and was shot at a higher frame rate of 48fps. There were special HFR (high frame rate) screenings.
Again, some liked it, some didn't. Overall it failed I would say, 48fps didn't become a new standard. Folks like you and me who found the overly smooth motion to give the impression of a soap opera. It loses the magic of cinema.
This is why I can't stand any motion smoothing. If a film was shot at 24fps then that's the way the creators intended it to be viewed, that is how I want to watch it.

By the way, Gemini Man (2019) was the only other attempt I can think of which was made since, at least when it comes to big blockbusters. It was shot at 120fps 4k! Pretty crazy.
Didn't watch this one, so I cannot comment, but I know I would still prefer 24fps for films.
Oh, also the new Avatar film (Avatar: The Way of Water) went HFR at 48fps.
The higher frame rates do work better for 3D. The Hobbit, Gemini Man and the new Avatar are all 3D films, but I'm not too fond of 3D either.😁


----------



## JackB

RazB said:


> Hi @JackB ,
> I read that the Roku should support .mkv files, but mkv is just a container and can contain various codecs/formats of both video and audio, in multiple tracks as well, all in one file. Unfortunately the Roku seems to be very peaky with those codecs it supports, which might be where the problem lies.
> Would still expect the file to show up, even if playback isn't supported.
> Do you have any other files to test?
> 
> You could also try asking about this matter on a dedicated forum, but it might just be that Roku Ultra isn't the best player when it comes to local files, being so peaky.
> 
> I'm not an expert, but many recommend the Zidoo Z9X which should be very good at playing local files, it isn't really meant for streaming though (which the Roku might do better).
> The nVidia Sheild *Pro* is also an option, should be very good option for streaming and does support various files/formats/codecs. However, you'll need to install some third-party media player from the Play Store, there isn't one included and pre-installed (which isn't such a big deal).
> The Zidoo should still have the upper hand for local files and if the Roku covers your other needs it might be the better choice.
> There are also some Dune-HD devices, similar to the Zidoo, I just cannot give a specific recommendation, I'm not familiar enough with these.
> 
> As for the soap opera effect, I really cannot stand it myself, therefore I have MEMC set to off *always*. Absolutely hate any motion smoothing.
> Yet if the video you are watching was recorded and made to be played at 60 or 50fps it will be natively "soap opera-ish".
> If your source video was shot at 24fps, like most movies and series, it shouldn't have a soap opera effect unless you have some motion smoothing going on.
> 
> There is one different issue, most UST projectors (but some other displays as well), including the Formovie Theater, always operate at 60hz. They might support different refresh rates as input, but it will always runs at 60hz.
> A movie shot at 24 fps will be played with a 3:2 pull down. Basically every other frame is duplicated 3 or 2 times, to fit over a refresh rate of 60hz. This method has been in use for decades for television broadcast in NTSC countries (like the USA) for this exact reason.
> Motion, as a result, is not as smooth as of a display capable of changing it's refresh rate, some people are more sensitive to it, but it is nothing like the soap opera effect caused by motion smoothing algorithms.
> In the case of the Formovie I prefer feeding it a 60hz signal and let the player, which in my case is a PC, handle the 3:2 pull-down conversion. Performance can vary with different hardware and players, some might not do so well and cause jittery motion. I might still experiment with feeding it a 24hz signal, but since I'm only using a PC at the moment, it isn't so convenient for operation.


I finished copying all the files from each videos folder up to the Seagate root directory(is that what it's called?). They all now work using the Roku player. One of them, The Last Waltz is playing herky jerky but all the rest seem good. Thanks for the comments.


----------



## kaptaink45

DesertDog said:


> I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:
> View attachment 3354363
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back.
> 
> I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.
> 
> Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


In the 3 months that I have owned the Formovie using it an average of 8 hours a day I have run into this issue 3 times. Like DesertDog mentioned it is easily fixed by switching between different picture modes. I haven't figured out what causes it. Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but I have only seen it happen when watching my DirecTV and never when using my AppleTV or Nvidia Shield. It has only been a minor inconvenience so far since it happened so infrequently and is easily fixed. Hopefully it doesn't start occurring more often.


----------



## DesertDog

kaptaink45 said:


> In the 3 months that I have owned the Formovie using it an average of 8 hours a day I have run into this issue 3 times. Like DesertDog mentioned it is easily fixed by switching between different picture modes. I haven't figured out what causes it. Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but I have only seen it happen when watching my DirecTV and never when using my AppleTV or Nvidia Shield. It has only been a minor inconvenience so far since it happened so infrequently and is easily fixed. Hopefully it doesn't start occurring more often.


Ok, so I'm not alone.  It's not a huge problem since it's easy to fix but it is annoying. I've been hoping that a setting change might fix it. I've only had it happen with my AppleTV so far so I don't think it's necessarily due to the player that's used. I've been wondering if it's a scaling issue. I only remember it happening to me when playing either 720p or 1080p videos which would also fit your DTV use. I wish I could figure out how to get it into this state so that I can try to test fixes for it.


----------



## kaptaink45

DesertDog said:


> Ok, so I'm not alone.  It's not a huge problem since it's easy to fix but it is annoying. I've been hoping that a setting change might fix it. I've only had it happen with my AppleTV so far so I don't think it's necessarily due to the player that's used. I've been wondering if it's a scaling issue. I only remember it happening to me when playing either 720p or 1080p videos which would also fit your DTV use. I wish I could figure out how to get it into this state so that I can try to test fixes for it.


You might be on to something with the scaling issue. I do run my DirecTV at 720p.


----------



## Jeefo

patels922 said:


> View attachment 3334374
> 
> This is how i have mine setup at the moment ....simple 2x4 under center channel butted up against the wall


Sorry for replying to such an old message, but I'm designing our future home theater as we're redoing some of the drywall in our basement. Due to hvac/dropped ceiling limitations, we're forced to do an UST projector and are attempting to fit 130"-135" screen. So I'm leaning towards the Formovie Theater for its top notch specs (the new Epson LS800 is our second option). The trouble I'm having is the center channel location, and it basically seems like what you have here is the only real option, having the center just a couple inches off the ground, angled up, and the projector essentially on the ground or an inch or so up.
I'm curious if your center audio is noticeable that it's coming from so low, even if it is angled to the ears? Does it bother you at all or would you say you're more or less satisfied with it?

2nd option of ceiling mounting the Epson LS800 would force us to decrease to 125"-130" screen to have the center channel be at a more optimum height, but I'm wanting the better black levels of the Formovie and DV/HDR10+ support over the LS800.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## g3m

Anyone tested HDR10+ compatibility? Would like to know if I would get HDR10+ on Prime Video with the new ATK4K 3rd gen.


----------



## leo0111127

g3m said:


> Anyone tested HDR10+ compatibility? Would like to know if I would get HDR10+ on Prime Video with the new ATK4K 3rd gen.


No HDR 10+, only DV. I prefer the DV.


----------



## noonsa

leo0111127 said:


> No HDR 10+, only DV. I prefer the DV.


Are you sure? I could have sworn I watched Top Gun Maverick on it and it was in HDR10.

Checking the website: Product Help

"Yes, Formovie THEATER has a contrast of 3000: 1, the ultra -high specification HDR standard used by professional directors, Dolby Vision, and color boundaries are clearly visible, allowing the eyes to grasp each detail and support the three major HDR format standards. Dolby Vision, HDR10+, HDR10 decoding."


----------



## g3m

leo0111127 said:


> No HDR 10+, only DV. I prefer the DV.


Unfortunately Prime Video do not support DV for the majority of its titles so it's HDR10+ or HDR10. Like noonsa, I was also under the impression that HDR10+ decoding was supported in the Theater by reading the documentation on Formovie's website.


----------



## JackB

For those who want to use wireless headphones with the Formovie I can attest that it works. There is one issue though. It only works when your AVR is turned off. So it’s good for any internal app and a pass through source that your off receiver is set to, Directv in my case. It probably works for a device like a Roku hooked directly to an HDMI port on the rear of the chassis. I have suggested to customer support, which is very responsive btw, that they change the limitation of the AVR having to be off for the headphones to work. Seems like that should be possible. If you are wondering why, have you ever had your wife say “Could you please turn that down!” And then you can’t hear it because your ears are too old. LOL


----------



## Sam Ash

Has anyone experienced both 100" ALR and 120" ALR with the Formovie Theater in terms of how much brightness is lost when going up to the 120" ALR screen?

I reckon the tradeoff would be the requirement of less interior ambient light in the case of the bigger screen.


----------



## dreamprojector

I do not see many comparisons between LS800 and Formovie Theater. If you have to choose between these for a dark basement, which one do you prefer? Here is some of my notes comparing these projectors:

1. LS800 doesn't have Dolby Vision. Does it really matter?
2. Brand value. Epson is a known household name. I heard Formovie for the very first time this week.
3. Store Availability. I can walk-in to buy Epson in a BestBuy (BB) and can return at BB in case of any issues. However, that is not the case with Formovie.
4. Customer Service. Epson is not great with Customer Service but I know they have a team in the US. How good is Formovie Customer Support?
5. Audio. I heard that LS800 (Yamaha speakers) are not that great. Formovie audio is good. Will it really matter if I eventually connect to a 7.1 speaker setup.
6. Reviews. All the reviews of Formovie are posted on projectorscreen.com and almost nil from elsewhere. Epson got reviews from Best Buy, Amazon, projectorscreen.com.


----------



## kraine

All the reviews about the Formovie Theater are only on projectorscreen ? 









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Sam Ash

Read the review, has the image softness issue been resolved?


----------



## kraine

It is indicated in the test


----------



## blueocean27

Is it just me or is it always one step forward and one step back. Perfect in every way except for....wait for it. Sharpness. Good thing that's not important in a massive image. Geez.

So Formovie 2.0 in 2024?
Wait for LG to come to their senses and price accordingly?


----------



## Joered101

DesertDog said:


> I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:
> View attachment 3354363
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back.
> 
> I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.
> 
> Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


Yes! I have this 100% but have found that in game picture setting the issue never appears. It also creates a weird glow around the mouse in windows on pc. But not when I’m game picture setting.
Very odd


----------



## JimBob1971

kraine said:


> All the reviews about the Formovie Theater are only on projectorscreen ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


I don’t know where to start with their post. The same post was made on the LS800 thread. But to answer their main question, the Formovie would IMO be better for a dark room. The rest of the questions I couldn’t answer, either because the argument it is based on is incorrect or because it is entirely personal.


----------



## rjyap

Joered101 said:


> Yes! I have this 100% but have found that in game picture setting the issue never appears. It also creates a weird glow around the mouse in windows on pc. But not when I’m game picture setting.
> Very odd


The weird glow around the mouse could be due to sharpness setting that create halo. I don't feel 4K source need high sharpening and try to keep it as low as possible. On T1, my sharpness is around 8.


----------



## clipghost

kraine said:


> All the reviews about the Formovie Theater are only on projectorscreen ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> Test Formovie theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Is there an english source? I would love to read it. TLDR?


----------



## Brajesh

Scroll down for English .


----------



## clipghost

Brajesh said:


> Scroll down for English .


Me dumb dumb. BTW returned the AWOL :/


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> BTW returned the AWOL :/


Why did you return it?


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> Why did you return it?


It was more of a test for me just like Brajesh, but I think the contrast really bugged me. I think overall it was pretty sweet, a light canon with great sharpness, but it felt...how do I say it...that it looked too fake? The cinematic feel was missing. I think for gaming it was great too! But movies/tv it seemed too robotic. I am hoping the Formovie will be the right choice for me.


----------



## MarcusD777

clipghost said:


> It was more of a test for me just like Brajesh, but I think the contrast really bugged me. I think overall it was pretty sweet, a light canon with great sharpness, but it felt...how do I say it...that it looked too fake? The cinematic feel was missing. I think for gaming it was great too! But movies/tv it seemed too robotic. I am hoping the Formovie will be the right choice for me.


I can't comment on the AWOL but coming from an LG HU85LA which I feel was one of the more cinematic USTs available, the Formovie (which I have now) is right on par if not better. As long as you keep MEMC off it can be a very natural yet detailed (and vibrant if you want) presentation.


----------



## MRJAZZZ

DesertDog said:


> I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:
> View attachment 3354363
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back.
> 
> I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.
> 
> Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


I had this EXACT SAME ISSUE with a Formovie Global T1. It's the primary reason that I returned mine. It started on the second day after I initially received it. I was watching a movie, and all of a sudden several "halos" or "hot spotting " areas would appear on the screen. At first I just thought it was an aberration in the broadcast, etc., however it persisted until I either switched inputs or simply went into the picture menu and tried a different image setting. Then it magically disappeared, only to return after a period of time.
This pattern kept repeating itself for several more days, (the T1 would be fine for a period of time, thsn the hot spotting would suddenly appear) until I finally gave up on trying to figure out what was causing this. Also my unit was prone to dust blobs so I finally returned it.

There's apparently something wrong with the video processing of some, perhaps just a few, of the Formovie Global T1's.

I subsequently ended up with an Epson L800. 
No issues so far.


----------



## radstheater

I purchased my formovie theater from projectorscreen.com 

I'm having issues with the handshake between my avr (denon x2800h) and the formovie theater via eARC. 

I have a 7.1 surround. I'm using eARC between my projector and avr. If I leave the HDMI unplugged while I start up the projector, then start a show (say something on youtube TV), and then plug in my HDMI cable into the avr while the show is playing, everything works. The picture is good, the sound works fine, etc. Everything works fine even if I switch between streaming apps, etc.

The issue happens on the second time I power off or have the projector on standby (without unplugging the HDMI). Everything loads up okay. I then open a streaming app (doesn't matter which one - youtube TV, amazon prime, etc.). I get this warning at the bottom of the screen saying that Netflix is not optimized for this device ( I'm not running Netflix), and then when it is trying to buffer the video one of two things happens - 1) the projector freezes and crashes and won't power off, I have to unplug from the outlet, or 2) when it buffers the image, the image is distorted. 

My current fix is to unplug my HDMI after every time I'm done with the projector and plug it back in the next time after I power on the projector and find something to watch. As you can imagine, this is super irritating. I'm assuming this is something to do with the HDMI handshake happening in the background. I haven't tried using an optical line for audio only. Does anyone have any recommendations or fixes? Thinking of calling projectorscreen to see if they can help me at all. 

I tried to search a little through this thread, but it's 115 pages now and so hard to look through everything. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## rjyap

Here’s the scene with very low nits from HOTD ep 7 beach scene. This is output by MadVR and I switch to night mode brightness and turn on dynamic contrast to boost the highlight. Overall the scene is watchable and this scene will trip a lot of LED TV with dynamic dimming. Please ignore the middle picture looks brighter due to iPhone camera auto expose the very dark picture. The real image brightness is consistent across the screen and slightly darker. MadVR register 2 nits for this scene.


----------



## rjyap

I just take a look at the photo I posted above at my living room plasma TV and looks like with ambient light and overhead light, it's tough to see the details in the photo. For such a low APL scene, you need a batcave to see all the shadow details.


----------



## mirzank

dreamprojector said:


> 6. Reviews. All the reviews of Formovie are posted on projectorscreen.com and almost nil from elsewhere. Epson got reviews from Best Buy, Amazon, projectorscreen.com.





https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-formovie-theater-4k-projector-review





https://www.engadget.com/amp/formovie-theater-review-ultra-short-throw-dolby-vision-120040276.html


----------



## boogaliwoogali

Hey all. I was annoyed that the only way to turn off this projector was by holding down the formovie controller's power button and then selecting OK, so I worked out a way to make it turn off after X seconds of sleep. I made a guide for anyone else who might want this.

It means I can turn off my Nvidia Shield with a shield remote (sending the projector to sleep), and not worry about the projector needing to be shut down as it will happen automatically. Just one remote to do everything 🙌


----------



## antjes

Thanks but link is not working


----------



## JimBob1971

clipghost said:


> Is there an english source? I would love to read it. TLDR?


It is in English if you scroll down.
Edit: Ooops, I see you found out.


----------



## boogaliwoogali

antjes said:


> Thanks but link is not working


My link? It just links to a post on this forum, seems to work on my desktop browser okay

Ahh, it says the post is awaiting approval, it might take a little before it's visible to others. My bad. I'll re-post about it when it's been approved.


----------



## Joered101

Hey,
Is anyone else having issues with getting cyan to look natural? Mine comes out so green and actually a really ugly colour. Other colours look okay but a certain tone of cyan which unfortunately is quite popular, looks awful. Cannot get any luck with the CMS. Would love to know if anyone else has noticed this and has a fix?
Thanks,

joe


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> https://www.techradar.com/reviews/hands-on-formovie-theater-4k-projector-review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/amp/formovie-theater-review-ultra-short-throw-dolby-vision-120040276.html


@PixelPusher15 also has one that he is reviewing for HomeTheaterReview.com right now


----------



## madmax777

please tell me, if I buy zidoo z9x, it supports 3D, will I be able to look at T1 Global 3D? Can I use 3D glasses from xgimi h2?


----------



## badboris

JackB said:


> Thanks for the detailed reply. I am in the process of copying the .mkv videos out of their individual folders up two levels. There was one already there that did work with the Roku player. Hopefully putting the rest of them there will work. It also makes getting to each video two clicks quicker.
> 
> Im a little confused, common with my small brain, on the frame rate issue. If the player(s) have Frame Rate Match option and the movie is sent to the Formovie at 24fps to be then converted to 60fps, why do the Frame Rate Match in the first place? Wouldn’t that add an additional conversion step that could only serve to lessen the picture quality?


Jack, RazB did a great job outling things. My 0.02 if you decide to upgrade.


The zidoo z9x is the best player out there (in terms of video and audio quality) at a relatively reasonable price for playing local content (will need another device for streaming).
The nividia shield PRO is sorta tied with the Apple TV (the prior if you need lossless atmos, or the latter for a less buggy and more polished experiance). Both have improved video quality over roku and firestick and operate more snappy.

I personally have a zidoo z9x for local content off a NAS, and a shield PRO for streaming and am very happy.


----------



## theMadMan74

badboris said:


> Jack, RazB did a great job outling things. My 0.02 if you decide to upgrade.
> 
> 
> The zidoo z9x is the best player out there (in terms of video and audio quality) at a relatively reasonable price for playing local content (will need another device for streaming).
> The nividia shield PRO is sorta tied with the Apple TV (the prior if you need lossless atmos, or the latter for a less buggy and more polished experiance). Both have improved video quality over roku and firestick and operate more snappy.
> 
> I personally have a zidoo z9x for local content off a NAS, and a shield PRO for streaming and am very happy.


Thanks for highlighting these differences in media streamer. Regarding the Shield Pro vs ATV, not that it matters in this context since I just found out that the Formovie and others don't do 24p anyway, the ATV has the advantage for other use cases where it can output frame matched content. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems Google TV OS just started supporting this as well but ATV seems to be the leader in this space with the popular streaming apps (Netflix, HBO etc).

So I just wonder, are there any USTs or projectors that can natively take 24p, 30p etc?


----------



## badboris

theMadMan74 said:


> Thanks for highlighting these differences in media streamer. Regarding the Shield Pro vs ATV, not that it matters in this context since I just found out that the Formovie and others don't do 24p anyway, the ATV has the advantage for other use cases where it can output frame matched content. Please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems Google TV OS just started supporting this as well but ATV seems to be the leader in this space with the popular streaming apps (Netflix, HBO etc).
> 
> So I just wonder, are there any USTs or projectors that can natively take 24p, 30p etc?


I'd love to answer that Q but can't.

I have postponed getting an UST for now. Just purely trying to help out people trying to decide between media players. Zidoo z9x has an incredible amount of customizabilty compared to all the rest if playing local content is your primary concern. Your Q is very good and something I would like to know myself when the time comes and I consider getting an UST again. Good luck!


----------



## mirzank

Can anyone please tell me the stated wattage and amps for the formovie theatre ? I’m not at home for next few weeks and want to get a smart plug for the pj to be able to remotely shut it down or turn it off/reboot if needed.right now if I’m traveling I just unplug it but would prefer a smart plug.


----------



## Brajesh

madmax777 said:


> please tell me, if I buy zidoo z9x, it supports 3D, will I be able to look at T1 Global 3D? Can I use 3D glasses from xgimi h2?


No 3D on Chinese or Global T1.


----------



## DesertDog




----------



## Fox&304

Anybody has this plugged to a PS5 ? If so, are you having issues with some signal cutouts, and have to scale back the HDMI bandwith in the PS5 settings in order to make this work on 2.1 HDMI ?


----------



## dcarey88

Hi everyone,

New poster but I have been exploring purchasing a UST for the last month or so and while I have looked through the thread for answers to my questions, screen type questions generally seem to depend on usage case, so I thought I should just post a few pics and get some opinions if anyone was willing to provide some advice.

I have a dedicated cinema room which only has a single window to the left that has minimal impact of ambient light on the wall where the screen would be going and also has a rolldown blackout, as seen below, which does have a little light bleed in the sides but once it is down the small bit of daylight that does get in doesn't go anywhere near the projector wall. It is appearing a lot brighter in the image than in reality which is why I included a wide angle where you can see the projection wall really isn’t affected much at all by it. As for night-time, it is a batcave.










_Room with blind open middle of the day._










_Wall where screen will go, blind open, middle of the day._










_Small bit of light bleed with blind closed._










_Same set up but wider angle, as you can see wall for the screen on the right has virtually no impact from any light bleed from the blind._

Given that I don't think I will have any ambient light issue is the right call to go with a matte white screen? I have been looking at the EliteScreens Cinewhite one but open to recommendations. I do want good blacks though so if people think I should go ALR/CLR regardless of minimal ambient light concerns I’d appreciate guidance. One other small note, I will be painting the ceiling above the screen a darker colour as I know bounceback could be an issue.

Question two, the problem I have is as you can see in the above images we have an overhang in the ceiling so I am quite tight on height (80.5" to the ceiling). I have done some calculations based off the placement guide diagram on the projectorscreen.com review and assuming I have my measurements correct I believe my options are to go with a 100” if the Formovie is on top of my cabinet or to build a retractable shelf into the open section at the front of my cabinet which would lower it enough to allow me to go to 110". 

However, my question on the feasibility of option two is, what is the angle of the projected image at the lowest point? From the placement guide the PJ will need to be 23" from the wall. The cabinet is 15" depth so I could only have the shelf come out 8" and I am wondering if there is a risk the lower part of the image would not clear the top of the cabinet.
Apologies if that is phrased poorly or confusing, I have a diagram below to try clarify the question.










I realise the answer to both of these may be buy the PJ and then figure out the screen based on testing but I live in Ireland so I am going to be looking at hefty shipping and import fees as there is no suppliers here, so buying it and returning isn’t really an option. If 110” with the shelf isn’t feasible I may consider the Epson LS800 as I could just about get 110” from that while leaving it on top of the cabinet.

I realise that seems like a lot so to summarise:

*1) If ambient light isn’t an issue, is Cinewhite the way to go (will the Formovie blacks appear grey on this)?

2 What is the degree angle of the lowest part of the beam on a 110” image?*

Any advice for a young Padawan would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## 3sprit

noonsa said:


> "Yes, Formovie THEATER has a contrast of 3000: 1, the ultra -high specification HDR standard used by professional directors, Dolby Vision, and color boundaries are clearly visible, allowing the eyes to grasp each detail and support the three major HDR format standards. Dolby Vision, HDR10+, HDR10 decoding."


Interesting, I hadn't read it anywhere.
I will purchase a latest generation ATV that supports HDR10+.


----------



## RazB

3sprit said:


> Interesting, I hadn't read it anywhere.
> I will purchase a latest generation ATV that supports HDR10+.


I have no way of testing HDR10+, but this has been discussed here before and for all I know the Formovie Theater does *NOT* support HDR10+ in reality.
The projector should support it according to official publications, as can be found on the official website.

If somebody knows any details or tested HDR10+ content we'd love to hear about it.


----------



## antjes

My theory is that T1 is HDR10+ ready but is not included in its EDID.
In my chinese version and using a Z9X I force HDR10+ using a custom EDID and T1 does not have any problem, any case I dont find much diference.
I did some tests in the past with EZCOO and OPPO clone, same result

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Brajesh

Are you using a HDFury with your Z9X and T1 to force HDR10+? Are you using one of the custom EDID's from here? I'll try it on Global T1.


----------



## noonsa

I'm no expert but I've seen HDR10 activate on the Expanse on Amazon Prime and Dune on Google Play Movies. I don't know if there's yet another HDR10+ mode or if that is included under this HDR10 mode.

(These pics are taken during the day)


----------



## Brajesh

Think that's just the HDR10 base you're getting from 10+. What @antjes posted sounded like he was able to get his T1 to accept 10+ EDID (with tonemapping similar to DV I'm assuming).


----------



## JackB

badboris said:


> Jack, RazB did a great job outling things. My 0.02 if you decide to upgrade.
> 
> 
> The zidoo z9x is the best player out there (in terms of video and audio quality) at a relatively reasonable price for playing local content (will need another device for streaming).
> The nividia shield PRO is sorta tied with the Apple TV (the prior if you need lossless atmos, or the latter for a less buggy and more polished experiance). Both have improved video quality over roku and firestick and operate more snappy.
> 
> I personally have a zidoo z9x for local content off a NAS, and a shield PRO for streaming and am very happy.


I solved my problem on the Seagate drive by copying all the .mkv files out of their individual folders to the root directory. They all now work going through the USB input on my Roku Utra. The Roku's Media Player works for playing the video.

I have an unused USB stick I bought several years ago. If it is FAT32 how do I copy the .mkv files to the stick? Do I need to copy the entire Seagate disk so that all the supporting programs are on the stick or will the stick with the .mkv files only work using a player on the Formovie? If so, does the Formovie have a player or do I have to figure out how to install one?


----------



## boogaliwoogali

See below


----------



## boogaliwoogali

boogaliwoogali said:


> My link? It just links to a post on this forum, seems to work on my desktop browser okay
> 
> Ahh, it says the post is awaiting approval, it might take a little before it's visible to others. My bad. I'll re-post about it when it's been approved.


This post has now been approved, the guide's up for anyone who wants it.









[GUIDE] Shutdown Formovie Theatre projector (and...


This guide takes you through the steps to allow automatic shutdown of the Formovie Theatre UST projector after a set amount of time sleeping. It may also work with any projector that uses Android 11 and allows for USB Debugging. What this does It sets an automatic timer (by default 15 mins) to...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## mirzank

I messaged formovie about 

1) the hdmi handshake issue 
2) the remote losing it’s pairing and 
3) wifi not connecting sometimes on startup 
and their response seemed to be that not only is there no problem they are aware of but that they don’t have any firmware planned. 

For me the hdmi handshake issue is not that common but the remote losing its pairing has become quite annoying as well as the wifi not connecting. The first month I had no issue with the remote or wifi and suddenly recently it’s become wildly annoying as it keeps losing its pairing with remote as well as wifi. Either problem by itself may not have been a huge issue but if both happen together it’s infuriating as I can’t control the device with my phone to repair the remote, and I can’t connect the wifi since remote isn’t working. Leading me to multiple restarts, plugging in and out till something works. I’ll have to get a wired mouse or keyboard it seems for these situation. 

I believe the formovie resellers such as projector screen may have some higher level connections and may be able to either convince formovie there is a problem or get an update if any firmware fix is in the works. 
Or atleast the rest of us that have the issue should write to formovie support identifying the problems. 

All 3 problems are big enough by themselves that I feel if formovie was going to fix them they would have released some firmware updates.


----------



## antjes

Brajesh said:


> Think that's just the HDR10 base you're getting from 10+. What @antjes posted sounded like he was able to get his T1 to accept 10+ EDID (with tonemapping similar to DV I'm assuming).


I tested time ago, so I tried again few minutes ago.
The test is only for local content using Zidoo Z9x and Custom EDID which includes HDR10+.
Zidoo directly Connected to T1 and the only 10+ movie I have, Doctor Sleep. After play HDR10+ flag appears in Zidoo and when I check out indicates 444 12bits BT2020 HDR10+.

Then I tried inserting VERTEX 1 selecting a custom EDID FOR HDR10+ and again Zidoo is outputing HDR10+, in VERTEX OSD appears Rx 444 12bits HDR and TX the same.
So I think T1 receives HDR10+ Signal but I dont know how is processing It. Picture quality is very good but I couldnt compare with HDR , tomorrow I Will try.
Anybody know if Fire stick or Chromecast can output HDR10+?

Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


----------



## demonray888

Hi everyone! I just got my Formovie Theater yesterday, and I've been testing some 4K videos and files. The picture looks amazing on the wall even without a screen, but I have a Spectra Vantage 120 coming soon anyway.

Problem: I’m having issues with the built-in / Android TV OS apps of the Formovie Theater, and I wanted to ask anyone has experienced it in their testing:


Formovie Theater restarts when trying to play high-bitrate videos from the built-in Android OS Plex or Jellyfin applications
Tried multiple brands of HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. When it attempts to play a high bitrate movie, the projector stops/freezes, then reboots.


This is the case for all of my 2.1 cables, except one

The one that works is a 50ft HDMI 2.1 fiber optic cable. The problem with this cable is that every few seconds, the eARC audio stutters: stops and restarts for about 1-2 seconds every couple of seconds.
This is strange. What is so different from that cable as opposed to my other 6-feet cables that allows it to work and not restart the projector?


I have an Nvidia Shield Pro coming to further diagnose this. My working impression is that the projector cannot process the higher bitrate videos within the Android OS itself or Plex/Jellyfin.

I found that strange as I thought the Mediatek MT9629 (T31) with the Quad-core 1.5 GHz (ARM Cortex-A55) CPU with an ARM Mali-G52 GPU will have no issues handling the high bitrate videos. Maybe it's a limitation of the projector's Android TV OS. 

Let me know if you have heard or seen this projector "not being able to play the video, then restarting" issue.

Thanks!!


----------



## mirzank

demonray888 said:


> Hi everyone! I just got my Formovie Theater yesterday, and I've been testing some 4K videos and files. The picture looks amazing on the wall even without a screen, but I have a Spectra Vantage 120 coming soon anyway.
> 
> Problem: I’m having issues with the built-in / Android TV OS apps of the Formovie Theater, and I wanted to ask anyone has experienced it in their testing:
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater restarts when trying to play high-bitrate videos from the built-in Android OS Plex or Jellyfin applications
> Tried multiple brands of HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. When it attempts to play a high bitrate movie, the projector stops/freezes, then reboots.
> 
> 
> This is the case for all of my 2.1 cables, except one
> 
> The one that works is a 50ft HDMI 2.1 fiber optic cable. The problem with this cable is that every few seconds, the eARC audio stutters: stops and restarts for about 1-2 seconds every couple of seconds.
> This is strange. What is so different from that cable as opposed to my other 6-feet cables that allows it to work and not restart the projector?
> 
> 
> I have an Nvidia Shield Pro coming to further diagnose this. My working impression is that the projector cannot process the higher bitrate videos within the Android OS itself or Plex/Jellyfin.
> 
> I found that strange as I thought the Mediatek MT9629 (T31) with the Quad-core 1.5 GHz (ARM Cortex-A55) CPU with an ARM Mali-G52 GPU will have no issues handling the high bitrate videos. Maybe it's a limitation of the projector's Android TV OS.
> 
> Let me know if you have heard or seen this projector "not being able to play the video, then restarting" issue.
> 
> Thanks!!


If you’re using the built in android player why is the hdmi cable relevant ? Is it to connect to the sonos arc or something?


----------



## zoomx2

antjes said:


> I tested time ago, so I tried again few minutes ago.
> The test is only for local content using Zidoo Z9x and Custom EDID which includes HDR10+.
> Zidoo directly Connected to T1 and the only 10+ movie I have, Doctor Sleep. After play HDR10+ flag appears in Zidoo and when I check out indicates 444 12bits BT2020 HDR10+.
> 
> Then I tried inserting VERTEX 1 selecting a custom EDID FOR HDR10+ and again Zidoo is outputing HDR10+, in VERTEX OSD appears Rx 444 12bits HDR and TX the same.
> So I think T1 receives HDR10+ Signal but I dont know how is processing It. Picture quality is very good but I couldnt compare with HDR , tomorrow I Will try.
> Anybody know if Fire stick or Chromecast can output HDR10+?
> 
> Enviado desde mi M2012K11AC mediante Tapatalk


I can confirm Firestick4K output HDR10+ in Prime video. I forget which movies I watched. In the developer menu, it shows HDR+ BT2020.


----------



## boogaliwoogali

demonray888 said:


> Hi everyone! I just got my Formovie Theater yesterday, and I've been testing some 4K videos and files. The picture looks amazing on the wall even without a screen, but I have a Spectra Vantage 120 coming soon anyway.
> 
> Problem: I’m having issues with the built-in / Android TV OS apps of the Formovie Theater, and I wanted to ask anyone has experienced it in their testing:
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater restarts when trying to play high-bitrate videos from the built-in Android OS Plex or Jellyfin applications
> Tried multiple brands of HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. When it attempts to play a high bitrate movie, the projector stops/freezes, then reboots.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the case for all of my 2.1 cables, except one
> 
> The one that works is a 50ft HDMI 2.1 fiber optic cable. The problem with this cable is that every few seconds, the eARC audio stutters: stops and restarts for about 1-2 seconds every couple of seconds.
> This is strange. What is so different from that cable as opposed to my other 6-feet cables that allows it to work and not restart the projector?
> 
> 
> I have an Nvidia Shield Pro coming to further diagnose this. My working impression is that the projector cannot process the higher bitrate videos within the Android OS itself or Plex/Jellyfin.
> 
> I found that strange as I thought the Mediatek MT9629 (T31) with the Quad-core 1.5 GHz (ARM Cortex-A55) CPU with an ARM Mali-G52 GPU will have no issues handling the high bitrate videos. Maybe it's a limitation of the projector's Android TV OS.
> 
> Let me know if you have heard or seen this projector "not being able to play the video, then restarting" issue.
> 
> Thanks!!


Maybe it's your connection to the content? Are you streaming the videos wirelessly, and if so how is your wi-fi connection?


----------



## zoomx2

demonray888 said:


> Hi everyone! I just got my Formovie Theater yesterday, and I've been testing some 4K videos and files. The picture looks amazing on the wall even without a screen, but I have a Spectra Vantage 120 coming soon anyway.
> 
> Problem: I’m having issues with the built-in / Android TV OS apps of the Formovie Theater, and I wanted to ask anyone has experienced it in their testing:
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater restarts when trying to play high-bitrate videos from the built-in Android OS Plex or Jellyfin applications
> Tried multiple brands of HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. When it attempts to play a high bitrate movie, the projector stops/freezes, then reboots.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the case for all of my 2.1 cables, except one
> 
> The one that works is a 50ft HDMI 2.1 fiber optic cable. The problem with this cable is that every few seconds, the eARC audio stutters: stops and restarts for about 1-2 seconds every couple of seconds.
> This is strange. What is so different from that cable as opposed to my other 6-feet cables that allows it to work and not restart the projector?
> 
> 
> I have an Nvidia Shield Pro coming to further diagnose this. My working impression is that the projector cannot process the higher bitrate videos within the Android OS itself or Plex/Jellyfin.
> 
> I found that strange as I thought the Mediatek MT9629 (T31) with the Quad-core 1.5 GHz (ARM Cortex-A55) CPU with an ARM Mali-G52 GPU will have no issues handling the high bitrate videos. Maybe it's a limitation of the projector's Android TV OS.
> 
> Let me know if you have heard or seen this projector "not being able to play the video, then restarting" issue.
> 
> Thanks!!





demonray888 said:


> Hi everyone! I just got my Formovie Theater yesterday, and I've been testing some 4K videos and files. The picture looks amazing on the wall even without a screen, but I have a Spectra Vantage 120 coming soon anyway.
> 
> Problem: I’m having issues with the built-in / Android TV OS apps of the Formovie Theater, and I wanted to ask anyone has experienced it in their testing:
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater restarts when trying to play high-bitrate videos from the built-in Android OS Plex or Jellyfin applications
> Tried multiple brands of HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. When it attempts to play a high bitrate movie, the projector stops/freezes, then reboots.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the case for all of my 2.1 cables, except one
> 
> The one that works is a 50ft HDMI 2.1 fiber optic cable. The problem with this cable is that every few seconds, the eARC audio stutters: stops and restarts for about 1-2 seconds every couple of seconds.
> This is strange. What is so different from that cable as opposed to my other 6-feet cables that allows it to work and not restart the projector?
> 
> 
> I have an Nvidia Shield Pro coming to further diagnose this. My working impression is that the projector cannot process the higher bitrate videos within the Android OS itself or Plex/Jellyfin.
> 
> I found that strange as I thought the Mediatek MT9629 (T31) with the Quad-core 1.5 GHz (ARM Cortex-A55) CPU with an ARM Mali-G52 GPU will have no issues handling the high bitrate videos. Maybe it's a limitation of the projector's Android TV OS.
> 
> Let me know if you have heard or seen this projector "not being able to play the video, then restarting" issue.
> 
> Thanks!!


I recommend using an external stream device vs a build-it app. I sideload in T1 and spend hours adjusting the setting in Pictures but all no good. I bought a cheap Firestick 4k max quite happy with it. Or buy a new A15 Apple TV.


----------



## noonsa

mirzank said:


> I messaged formovie about
> 
> 1) the hdmi handshake issue
> 2) the remote losing it’s pairing and
> 3) wifi not connecting sometimes on startup
> and their response seemed to be that not only is there no problem they are aware of but that they don’t have any firmware planned.
> 
> For me the hdmi handshake issue is not that common but the remote losing its pairing has become quite annoying as well as the wifi not connecting. The first month I had no issue with the remote or wifi and suddenly recently it’s become wildly annoying as it keeps losing its pairing with remote as well as wifi. Either problem by itself may not have been a huge issue but if both happen together it’s infuriating as I can’t control the device with my phone to repair the remote, and I can’t connect the wifi since remote isn’t working. Leading me to multiple restarts, plugging in and out till something works. I’ll have to get a wired mouse or keyboard it seems for these situation.





mirzank said:


> I messaged formovie about
> 
> 1) the hdmi handshake issue
> 2) the remote losing it’s pairing and
> 3) wifi not connecting sometimes on startup
> and their response seemed to be that not only is there no problem they are aware of but that they don’t have any firmware planned.
> 
> For me the hdmi handshake issue is not that common but the remote losing its pairing has become quite annoying as well as the wifi not connecting. The first month I had no issue with the remote or wifi and suddenly recently it’s become wildly annoying as it keeps losing its pairing with remote as well as wifi. Either problem by itself may not have been a huge issue but if both happen together it’s infuriating as I can’t control the device with my phone to repair the remote, and I can’t connect the wifi since remote isn’t working. Leading me to multiple restarts, plugging in and out till something works. I’ll have to get a wired mouse or keyboard it seems for these situation.
> 
> I believe the formovie resellers such as projector screen may have some higher level connections and may be able to either convince formovie there is a problem or get an update if any firmware fix is in the works.
> Or atleast the rest of us that have the issue should write to formovie support identifying the problems.
> 
> All 3 problems are big enough by themselves that I feel if formovie was going to fix them they would have released some firmware updates.


That's not good. While my remote and WiFi connections are fine. My biggest issue is that the unit crashes 100% of the time when trying to play HDR10 content when a soundbar or whatever is connected to the eARC port. I can get around it by unplugging it and restarting it, then replug and it will work once.

They really should fix this kind of thing through a firmware update.


----------



## clipghost

mirzank said:


> I messaged formovie about
> 
> 1) the hdmi handshake issue
> 2) the remote losing it’s pairing and
> 3) wifi not connecting sometimes on startup
> and their response seemed to be that not only is there no problem they are aware of but that they don’t have any firmware planned.
> 
> For me the hdmi handshake issue is not that common but the remote losing its pairing has become quite annoying as well as the wifi not connecting. The first month I had no issue with the remote or wifi and suddenly recently it’s become wildly annoying as it keeps losing its pairing with remote as well as wifi. Either problem by itself may not have been a huge issue but if both happen together it’s infuriating as I can’t control the device with my phone to repair the remote, and I can’t connect the wifi since remote isn’t working. Leading me to multiple restarts, plugging in and out till something works. I’ll have to get a wired mouse or keyboard it seems for these situation.
> 
> I believe the formovie resellers such as projector screen may have some higher level connections and may be able to either convince formovie there is a problem or get an update if any firmware fix is in the works.
> Or atleast the rest of us that have the issue should write to formovie support identifying the problems.
> 
> All 3 problems are big enough by themselves that I feel if formovie was going to fix them they would have released some firmware updates.


I mean...these seem like pretty big and common issues. If they want to keep their customer base happy they would address these things.

Projectorscreen, any thoughts?


----------



## zoomx2

Brajesh said:


> Are you using a HDFury with your Z9X and T1 to force HDR10+? Are you using one of the custom EDID's from here? I'll try it on Global T1.


Any luck with autofocus?


----------



## demonray888

mirzank said:


> If you’re using the built in android player why is the hdmi cable relevant ? Is it to connect to the sonos arc or something?


Thanks for your reply man! 

I'm connecting it to my Denon AVR-S760H to get surround sound audio from the built-in Android TV apps via eARC. 

If I don't do this, I'm locked to the built-in projector audio (which surprisingly sounds great, [wish I can use it as a center speaker]).


----------



## Sonny Red

clipghost said:


> I mean...these seem like pretty big and common issues. If they want to keep their customer base happy they would address these things.
> 
> Projectorscreen, any thoughts?


To be honest I find it too not very reassuring.

There are several bugs know from the beginning like the wifi not working when you switch off and turn on the projector. We are in November and no new firmware.

I also have a bug with the eARC when my Sony HT-A9 audio system is plugged to the Formovie.

I had either to turn eARC to « Off » or to turn Digital output to « passthrough instead of « auto » otherwise I am having audio dropouts every 2-3 seconds.

I really like this projector but the Formovie customer service/support should address this issues as soon possible otherwise even if the projector is good people will buy another brand.


----------



## Brajesh

zoomx2 said:


> Any luck with autofocus?


Thanks for the reminder. Trying to reference how someone documented the steps for T1, I'm not seeing the same options on GT1. Do you? Happy to schedule FaceTime with you tomorrow if I can show you what I'm seeing & we do a live translation session...


----------



## mirzank

noonsa said:


> That's not good. While my remote and WiFi connections are fine. My biggest issue is that the unit crashes 100% of the time when trying to play HDR10 content when a soundbar or whatever is connected to the eARC port. I can get around it by unplugging it and restarting it, then replug and it will work once.
> 
> They really should fix this kind of thing through a firmware update.


Well either not enough people write in to support and so they have no idea to work on the issues or thinks it’s a very localised problem, or maybe general support has no idea of what technical team is working on. 
That’s why I suggested one of the resellers may be able to get a better idea of whether these issues are on the companies radar.


----------



## zoomx2

Brajesh said:


> Thanks for the reminder. Trying to reference how someone documented the steps for T1, I'm not seeing the same options on GT1. Do you? Happy to schedule FaceTime with you tomorrow if I can show you what I'm seeing & we do a live translation session...
> View attachment 3355785
> 
> View attachment 3355784
> 
> View attachment 3355786
> 
> View attachment 3355788
> 
> View attachment 3355789
> 
> View attachment 3355787
> 
> View attachment 3355790


I don't see any autofocus. Try display system


----------



## Brajesh

This is all that's in the display system section:
View attachment 3355786

May need to wait for @spocky12 to figure out (if possible) to get to autofocus.


----------



## zoomx2

Brajesh said:


> This is all that's in the display system section:
> View attachment 3355786
> 
> May need to wait for @spocky12 to figure out (if possible) to get to autofocus.


Surprise if global doesn't support it.


----------



## Brajesh

Possibly it could be unavailable in Global? Let's see if @spocky12 can make it happen.


----------



## JackB

My first problem with my Formovie. I was having an unusual cut out of picture where all the lights on the front would go on and then off whether I was watching the Formovie or my Sony TV that is on the wall behind the drop down screen. So I decided to try changing HDMI ports from 3 to 1 thinking that maybe ARC was causing the issue. When I brought the Formovie back up my sources no longer see it as 4K. The Roku indicates HD instead of UHD. My Directv won’t show the 4 K channels, only the HD channels. I looked in the menu system and didn’t see any setting that would cause this.
Any ideas?


----------



## clipghost

Sonny Red said:


> To be honest I find it too not very reassuring.
> 
> There are several bugs know from the beginning like the wifi not working when you switch off and turn on the projector. We are in November and no new firmware.
> 
> I also have a bug with the eARC when my Sony HT-A9 audio system is plugged to the Formovie.
> 
> I had either to turn eARC to « Off » or to turn Digital output to « passthrough instead of « auto » otherwise I am having audio dropouts every 2-3 seconds.
> 
> I really like this projector but the Formovie customer service/support should address this issues as soon possible otherwise even if the projector is good people will buy another brand.





mirzank said:


> Well either not enough people write in to support and so they have no idea to work on the issues or thinks it’s a very localised problem, or maybe general support has no idea of what technical team is working on.
> That’s why I suggested one of the resellers may be able to get a better idea of whether these issues are on the companies radar.


Do you guys have the global international version? Have you both emailed them?


----------



## mirzank

clipghost said:


> Do you guys have the global international version? Have you both emailed them?


Yep global international. And yes emailed several times and every time the response seems to be generic troubleshooting steps and when I mention others with similar issues they say it’s not something they’re aware of.


----------



## HitchcockBirds

Yeah, seeing what the AWOL's capable of, I can't say it's even equal to the ForMovie; it's leagues ahead of that. Sorry. I know the latter has HDMI 2.1 & DoVi but that's all it does. Unless you're on a budget, go for the ForMovie but you'd be a fool not to invest in AWOL. DoVi isn't even that necessary when you have a capable tone-mapping on your video processor.


----------



## clipghost

mirzank said:


> Yep global international. And yes emailed several times and every time the response seems to be generic troubleshooting steps and when I mention others with similar issues they say it’s not something they’re aware of.


I mean they should swap your units no questions asked.


----------



## mirzank

clipghost said:


> I mean they should swap your units no questions asked.


I think this is definitely a software issue and not hardware so not sure it’s worth sending it back for warranty service. 
If I reset and fresh set up my system It works fine for some weeks then the problem starts happening again.


----------



## RazB

dcarey88 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> New poster but I have been exploring purchasing a UST for the last month or so and while I have looked through the thread for answers to my questions, screen type questions generally seem to depend on usage case, so I thought I should just post a few pics and get some opinions if anyone was willing to provide some advice.
> 
> I have a dedicated cinema room which only has a single window to the left that has minimal impact of ambient light on the wall where the screen would be going and also has a rolldown blackout, as seen below, which does have a little light bleed in the sides but once it is down the small bit of daylight that does get in doesn't go anywhere near the projector wall. It is appearing a lot brighter in the image than in reality which is why I included a wide angle where you can see the projection wall really isn’t affected much at all by it. As for night-time, it is a batcave.
> 
> View attachment 3355533
> 
> 
> _Room with blind open middle of the day._
> 
> View attachment 3355532
> 
> 
> _Wall where screen will go, blind open, middle of the day._
> 
> View attachment 3355536
> 
> 
> _Small bit of light bleed with blind closed._
> 
> View attachment 3355535
> 
> 
> _Same set up but wider angle, as you can see wall for the screen on the right has virtually no impact from any light bleed from the blind._
> 
> Given that I don't think I will have any ambient light issue is the right call to go with a matte white screen? I have been looking at the EliteScreens Cinewhite one but open to recommendations. I do want good blacks though so if people think I should go ALR/CLR regardless of minimal ambient light concerns I’d appreciate guidance. One other small note, I will be painting the ceiling above the screen a darker colour as I know bounceback could be an issue.
> 
> Question two, the problem I have is as you can see in the above images we have an overhang in the ceiling so I am quite tight on height (80.5" to the ceiling). I have done some calculations based off the placement guide diagram on the projectorscreen.com review and assuming I have my measurements correct I believe my options are to go with a 100” if the Formovie is on top of my cabinet or to build a retractable shelf into the open section at the front of my cabinet which would lower it enough to allow me to go to 110".
> 
> However, my question on the feasibility of option two is, what is the angle of the projected image at the lowest point? From the placement guide the PJ will need to be 23" from the wall. The cabinet is 15" depth so I could only have the shelf come out 8" and I am wondering if there is a risk the lower part of the image would not clear the top of the cabinet.
> Apologies if that is phrased poorly or confusing, I have a diagram below to try clarify the question.
> 
> View attachment 3355542
> 
> 
> I realise the answer to both of these may be buy the PJ and then figure out the screen based on testing but I live in Ireland so I am going to be looking at hefty shipping and import fees as there is no suppliers here, so buying it and returning isn’t really an option. If 110” with the shelf isn’t feasible I may consider the Epson LS800 as I could just about get 110” from that while leaving it on top of the cabinet.
> 
> I realise that seems like a lot so to summarise:
> 
> *1) If ambient light isn’t an issue, is Cinewhite the way to go (will the Formovie blacks appear grey on this)?
> 
> 2 What is the degree angle of the lowest part of the beam on a 110” image?*
> 
> Any advice for a young Padawan would be greatly appreciated.


Hey there, your post got a bit buried, but I remembered it and wanted to get back to you.

Good you attached some pictures, surely helps evaluating your situation.

My choice for screen was just like you consider, a matte white, specifically from Elite Screens Aeon series with cinewhite 1.1 gain at 135".
The room I'm using is fully light controlled, I don't plan on watching with ambient light at all so I saw no reason to invest so much in just the screen if light rejecting is not an issue. Secondly going over 120" with CLR/ALR can get seriously expensive.
There are still advantaged of using such a screen, I'm pretty sure light reflections to the ceiling for one are also much improved, therefore blacks are better protected and should be deeper for the lower gain as well. On the other hand you lose some brightness, but should be still good enough from what I see online.
Black levels are still very good on my matte white, considerably better than older 4K DLP projectors I've seen. Don't expect a JVC or a Sony projector (long throw) black levels still, so as I said a lower gain CLR/ALR would still help bringing that even lower.

If you have the funds for CLR/ALR and willing to spend the extra cost then the light rejecting capabilities will still be beneficial.
In my use case I found it not justified enough and preferred investing more into the future sound system.

You should paint the ceiling section above the screen in any case, but especially if you go matte white. I would even advise flocking it with black velvet to really absorb the light with the screen so close to the edge there.

As for your other question in regards to distances, I think you should first get the projector, fit it in and test it. Only then when you settled on sizing and positioning go and get the screen.
The published numbers can give you an estimation, but you really should see what works best for you. Try it on the cabinet, try to have it standing on something lower (to estimate shelf/drawer level).

I understand you don't want to get a projector and go through importing it unless you are more certain. If someone has that size of screen maybe you get some more exact measurements. I kinda get the feeling that the published measurements are off or the description of the distances at least. Maybe it's because there are no specified measurements for my screen size, but it was somewhat not where I expected it.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions.
Do try to ask again about the measurements, maybe someone can clarify it for you. My screen size is vastly different so can't help much with that.


----------



## madmax777

Sonny Red said:


> I also have a bug with the eARC when my *Sony HT-A9 audio system* is plugged to the Formovie.


please tell me, I think to buy such a system. can it work as an addition to the projector speakers or does it work ONLY separately?


----------



## RazB

mirzank said:


> I think this is definitely a software issue and not hardware so not sure it’s worth sending it back for warranty service.
> If I reset and fresh set up my system It works fine for some weeks then the problem starts happening again.


You situation is really unfortunate. Of course it's not the end of the world and manageable to work around some quirks, but that doesn't mean it's okay and shouldn't be addressed.
We paid good money on these projectors, this is not a cheap toy projector.
Formovie support is lacking I must say.

I really like the projector and fortunately I didn't experience the pairing issue or the WiFi issue (using wired connection), but I am disappointed with the soft top corners and don't like the excuses from Formovie that it's "okay/normal" or that it is best up to 120" (the projector is advertised to go up to 150" with nothing like that mentioned anywhere).

Their response in your case and mine is lacking, doesn't seem like they are willing to recognize the problems and if that's the case you cannot expect any help either.

Maybe the folks in the US have better luck as they have dealers to turn to.


----------



## JackB

Is there any place in the Menu system to specify the resolution mode of the projector? My different sources like Roku, Firestick, DTV, Panasonic UB420 keep telling me that my projector does not support 4K. On Directv it wont even play the 4K channels. On the others it downgrades the output to either HD or 4k/30fps. Nothing has changed except I tried to switch the cable from HDMI3/ARC to HDMI1. Then this started. I switched the cable back to HDMI3 and unplugged the projector and replugged it. The settings were reset but the problem still exist. What is happening?


----------



## RazB

JackB said:


> Is there any place in the Menu system to specify the resolution mode of the projector? My different sources like Roku, Firestick, DTV, Panasonic UB420 keep telling me that my projector does not support 4K. On Directv it wont even play the 4K channels. On the others it downgrades the output to either HD or 4k/30fps. Nothing has changed except I tried to switch the cable from HDMI3/ARC to HDMI1. Then this started. I switched the cable back to HDMI3 and unplugged the projector and replugged it. The settings were reset but the problem still exist. What is happening?


Unfortunately I'm not at home, so I can't check it for you, but there should be a place somewhere in the menu where you can change the HDMI mode.
I really don't remember how to get there, but it should hopefully solve your problem. This hasn't happened to me, but it sounds like the HDMI "handshake" issue which I remember from the T1 thread mostly.
If you do manage to find it try changing the settings to HDMI 2.1, or to something else and then back to 2.1.


----------



## tweaknews

@JackB  in the input settings set HDMI EDID 2.1 not auto

Fengmi Formovie Theater: Einstellungen & Referenzhandbuch


----------



## Sonny Red

madmax777 said:


> please tell me, I think to buy such a system. can it work as an addition to the projector speakers or does it work ONLY separately?


Separately : you can’t use the Formovie Theater speaker as a center speaker for the HT-A9 system.

But the phantom center speaker mode works great.


madmax777 said:


> please tell me, I think to buy such a system. can it work as an addition to the projector speakers or does it work ONLY separately?


Separately : you can’t use the Formovie Theater speaker as a center speaker for the HT-A9 system.

But the phantom center speaker mode works great


----------



## JackB

tweaknews said:


> @JackB  in the input settings set HDMI EDID 2.1 not auto
> 
> Fengmi Formovie Theater: Einstellungen & Referenzhandbuch


Thanks to both of you guys that replied. That was it. It was set to Auto. I set it to 2.1 and everything is back to normal. For some reason moving my cable from HDMI3 to HDMI1 must have triggered something that made the computer make the change.


----------



## JackB

I have an experienced ISF calibrator coming later this week. He has not done a Formovie and possibly not any UST. Is there anything unique about calibrating the Formovie he should be aware of? Is there anything unique about calibrating a UST in case he hasn't done one of those?


----------



## extension23

Figured I would throw in my initial thoughts on this after getting mine on Thursday. This is my first projector (unless you count an old RGB CRT I had in the early 90s.) After following this thread from the beginning and seeing the results of the shootout, I decided to take the plunge and purchase the Formovie for the room I have been building out for my home theater. Here are my notes/thoughts after playing around with it all weekend.

Screen - I opted not to purchase a CLR screen yet. I have been building out this theater room and it is light controlled so I figured I would see how it looked without a CLR screen first and go the DIY route. Ceiling and back wall are both painted black and because I was worried that I would not have a place to put the center channel, I opted to follow the advice of the people in the DIY screen threads and make my own frame and use 2 layers of spandex to make my own AT screen. I was very pleased by how well this worked. It was awesome hearing the sound coming from the center of the screen. I don't have a frame of reference for anything else, but in a light controlled room I thought the spandex screen worked extremely well and the picture looked very good.

nVidia Shield TV - Almost all of my content is local on my NAS. I use NVidia Shield TVs with Kodi with Emby for the backend/metadata syncing throughout my house currently. This works great, so I was hoping to continue using this as the whole household is used to using it with the other TVs. I still haven't worked out the kinks of Dolby Vision with the NVidia Shield TV (more on that below.)

Formovie Google Doc guide - I tried following the Google doc settings. Most of it produced very good results with only minor tweaking, however the bit about setting HDMI EDID to 2.1 and not auto caused Dolby Vision to stop working every time I tried it. At some point after trying to get this working I also broke Dolby Vision altogether.

Dolby Vision - I am really struggling to get this working. My files are UHD discs that I rip with Makemkv and I am playing back with the kodinerds build of kodi on the ShieldTV. At first I first I thought my issue with it not working was my Denon AVR, so I removed that from the loop and plugged my ShieldTV directly into the Formovie. After doing that and playing with the settings as per the Google Doc guide I had Dolby Vision working for a several hours. While it was working, I was getting the picture dialed I was really pleased with how everything looked. I am not sure which setting broke everything for me, but now whenever I play any Dolby Vision mkv from Kodinerds, the image is all pink and pixelated. I remember seeing something about this in one of the threads, but so far, I can't figure out how to get it back working again and I can't find the post about it. I tried resetting all the settings but even that didn't seem to work. The one thing this did reveal to me is that now I am going to have to go back re-rip a ton of my UHD discs as the older versions of makemkv I had used to rip the files on my NAS do not have the Dolby Vision metadata. (That is going to be a long fun project.)

Focus - I followed the advice here and waited check and adjust the focus. I did see some minor improvement on the upper left corner after the unit had been playing for several hours, however it never really gets a sharp focus in that corner. The lower right corner has exceptionally shar focus, but I could never get anywhere near the level of sharpness in the other corners. While the lack of sharp focus is not as noticeable in films or shows, it is noticeable anytime you are in Kodi or the Android TV interface. The fact that the first thing out of my wife's mouth when seeing those interfaces was "Why does it look kind of blurry?" is never a good sign when trying to get acceptance of one of my new toys. 

Overall impression - The picture without Dolby Vision is great and when I can get it working the Dolby Vision picture was outstanding. The focus issue and Dolby Vision are a bummer. I don't think I can blame the Dolby Vision issue on the Formovie. I suspect it is more of an Nvidia or setting issue that I just messed up and I am sure I can eventually work through it. Heck even without it the picture looked great. Unfortunately, the focus is a bigger deal. I am tempted to open it up as mentioned in one of the posts, but I'd rather not void the warranty and it really feels like they should have fixed this after the feedback about this issue with the earlier batches. Unless there is something else to try, I am not sure what to do to try and fix this.

If anyone has any advice for fixing the Dolby Vision issue, I am having with Kodinerds, I am willing to give it a shot, because I am not having any success figuring it out on my own.


----------



## ACE844

@extension23,

In the shield under display settings, check that the dv sndhdr tabs are enabled. Additionally you can go to the custom resolution settings and force dv and hdr 12 bit there.

Lastly goto shield development settings and if none of the above works you can enable the lldv option. It's present in shield experience 9.1.1.

An option to fix focus might be to use project tivy tools and do the engineering auto focus trick mentioned in the thread.

Last project tivy will also give you access to picture tweaks. These items all worked for me with my cn version T1.

Hth.


----------



## radstheater

Like others, I think I'm having issues with the HDMI handshake. 

I'm having issued using hdmi eARC with a 2.1 cable. I've tried 3 cables, all of which work on other setups.

When I have nothing plugged in to the projector everything works fine. Unfortunately, when I have everything hooked up with my surround sound via the eARC, I get glitches either the projector crashing or audio keeps cutting in and out. 

I can get around this by unplugging the HDMI cable while the projector is playing and plugging it back in, but the problems happen next time I restart the projector. Obviously, this is not a viable solution.

Any help? 




tweaknews said:


> @JackB  in the input settings set HDMI EDID 2.1 not auto
> 
> Fengmi Formovie Theater: Einstellungen & Referenzhandbuch


This option is grayed out for me. Do you know what other setting I must have to change?


----------



## clipghost

extension23 said:


> Figured I would throw in my initial thoughts on this after getting mine on Thursday. This is my first projector (unless you count an old RGB CRT I had in the early 90s.) After following this thread from the beginning and seeing the results of the shootout, I decided to take the plunge and purchase the Formovie for the room I have been building out for my home theater. Here are my notes/thoughts after playing around with it all weekend.
> 
> Screen - I opted not to purchase a CLR screen yet. I have been building out this theater room and it is light controlled so I figured I would see how it looked without a CLR screen first and go the DIY route. Ceiling and back wall are both painted black and because I was worried that I would not have a place to put the center channel, I opted to follow the advice of the people in the DIY screen threads and make my own frame and use 2 layers of spandex to make my own AT screen. I was very pleased by how well this worked. It was awesome hearing the sound coming from the center of the screen. I don't have a frame of reference for anything else, but in a light controlled room I thought the spandex screen worked extremely well and the picture looked very good.
> 
> nVidia Shield TV - Almost all of my content is local on my NAS. I use NVidia Shield TVs with Kodi with Emby for the backend/metadata syncing throughout my house currently. This works great, so I was hoping to continue using this as the whole household is used to using it with the other TVs. I still haven't worked out the kinks of Dolby Vision with the NVidia Shield TV (more on that below.)
> 
> Formovie Google Doc guide - I tried following the Google doc settings. Most of it produced very good results with only minor tweaking, however the bit about setting HDMI EDID to 2.1 and not auto caused Dolby Vision to stop working every time I tried it. At some point after trying to get this working I also broke Dolby Vision altogether.
> 
> Dolby Vision - I am really struggling to get this working. My files are UHD discs that I rip with Makemkv and I am playing back with the kodinerds build of kodi on the ShieldTV. At first I first I thought my issue with it not working was my Denon AVR, so I removed that from the loop and plugged my ShieldTV directly into the Formovie. After doing that and playing with the settings as per the Google Doc guide I had Dolby Vision working for a several hours. While it was working, I was getting the picture dialed I was really pleased with how everything looked. I am not sure which setting broke everything for me, but now whenever I play any Dolby Vision mkv from Kodinerds, the image is all pink and pixelated. I remember seeing something about this in one of the threads, but so far, I can't figure out how to get it back working again and I can't find the post about it. I tried resetting all the settings but even that didn't seem to work. The one thing this did reveal to me is that now I am going to have to go back re-rip a ton of my UHD discs as the older versions of makemkv I had used to rip the files on my NAS do not have the Dolby Vision metadata. (That is going to be a long fun project.)
> 
> Focus - I followed the advice here and waited check and adjust the focus. I did see some minor improvement on the upper left corner after the unit had been playing for several hours, however it never really gets a sharp focus in that corner. The lower right corner has exceptionally shar focus, but I could never get anywhere near the level of sharpness in the other corners. While the lack of sharp focus is not as noticeable in films or shows, it is noticeable anytime you are in Kodi or the Android TV interface. The fact that the first thing out of my wife's mouth when seeing those interfaces was "Why does it look kind of blurry?" is never a good sign when trying to get acceptance of one of my new toys.
> 
> Overall impression - The picture without Dolby Vision is great and when I can get it working the Dolby Vision picture was outstanding. The focus issue and Dolby Vision are a bummer. I don't think I can blame the Dolby Vision issue on the Formovie. I suspect it is more of an Nvidia or setting issue that I just messed up and I am sure I can eventually work through it. Heck even without it the picture looked great. Unfortunately, the focus is a bigger deal. I am tempted to open it up as mentioned in one of the posts, but I'd rather not void the warranty and it really feels like they should have fixed this after the feedback about this issue with the earlier batches. Unless there is something else to try, I am not sure what to do to try and fix this.
> 
> If anyone has any advice for fixing the Dolby Vision issue, I am having with Kodinerds, I am willing to give it a shot, because I am not having any success figuring it out on my own.


Thanks for your thoughts! I am sure one of the people here will have a fix for your dolby vision issue. But would you say the Focus is a huge downer in the sense of you would return it? How bad we talking? 

Where did you buy the Formovie? Maybe they have a bad batch?


----------



## JackB

ACE844 said:


> @extension23,
> 
> In the shield under display settings, check that the dv sndhdr tabs are enabled. Additionally you can go to the custom resolution settings and force dv and hdr 12 bit there.
> 
> Lastly goto shield development settings and if none of the above works you can enable the lldv option. It's present in shield experience 9.1.1.
> 
> An option to fix focus might be to use project tivy tools and do the engineering auto focus trick mentioned in the thread.
> 
> Last project tivy will also give you access to picture tweaks. These items all worked for me with my cn version T1.
> 
> Hth.


Can you post a link to the project tivy thread?


----------



## dcarey88

RazB said:


> Black levels are still very good on my matte white, considerably better than older 4K DLP projectors I've seen. Don't expect a JVC or a Sony projector (long throw) black levels still, so as I said a lower gain CLR/ALR would still help bringing that even lower.


Thanks RazB, that's actually really helpful because I am definately leaning towards the Elite Cinewhite (not just on price, but the 110" CLR is out of stock for 2-3 months in europe) and black levels were my main concern so that is good to hear.

I hear you on projector first and then determine screen size. Given the time of year I think I will wait the 3 weeks toBlack Friday in case of sale prices and then take the plunge.

I see on your profile you are based in Hungary, could I ask you where you ordered your Formovie from? I'm Ireland so will be facing similar EU import duties.


----------



## RazB

dcarey88 said:


> Thanks RazB, that's actually really helpful because I am definately leaning towards the Elite Cinewhite (not just on price, but the 110" CLR is out of stock for 2-3 months in europe) and black levels were my main concern so that is good to hear.
> 
> I hear you on projector first and then determine screen size. Given the time of year I think I will wait the 3 weeks toBlack Friday in case of sale prices and then take the plunge.
> 
> I see on your profile you are based in Hungary, could I ask you where you ordered your Formovie from? I'm Ireland so will be facing similar EU import duties.


Sounds like a plan 
As long as you treat the room around the screen I don't think there should be any problem with black levels.

I got my projector from NothingButLabel. They have a warehouse in the EU, so no import tax/fee whatsoever.
My experience with them was good throughout the purchase and all. They operate from Australia, so keep that in mind in terms of communications.
You should also keep in mind that though there is a warranty from Formovie you still have to send your unit to China on your own in case of a problem.

If you'll read through my posts you can see that I complained about soft top corners. It seems to be less of an issue if your screen is 120" or smaller.
I'm not so satisfied with support telling me that it's okay and "normal" for UST projectors. That is simply not true. The problem isn't only with NothingButLabel, but Formovie themselves who also responded back.
I believe Americans have better luck with having a direct local dealer and having someone to turn to.

I don't want to alarm you too much, the image is still exceptional and while watching content this is almost unnoticeable. Some members here were luckier and got sharper units. Just wanted you to take things into consideration.


----------



## extension23

ACE844 said:


> In the shield under display settings, check that the dv sndhdr tabs are enabled. Additionally you can go to the custom resolution settings and force dv and hdr 12 bit there.
> Lastly goto shield development settings and if none of the above works you can enable the lldv option. It's present in shield experience 9.1.1.
> An option to fix focus might be to use project tivy tools and do the engineering auto focus trick mentioned in the thread.
> Last project tivy will also give you access to picture tweaks. These items all worked for me with my cn version T1.
> 
> Hth.


Thank you! This got me a little further. The DV and HDR options were enabled. I can go to the custom resolution and select the 12bit option, but my films still show up pink and pixelated (I think it was defaulting to 10bit.) Turning on the developer options and enabling the lldv option did get rid of that and it appears to work as my films now play and appear to have Dolby Vision being applied although when I go to the Picture settings it doesn't say Dolby Vision and I don't get the Dolby Vision Bright option. Something is happening though because if I turn off Dolby Vision on the Shield TV and watch the scene again, I can see that the colors and contrast are definitely different. I didn't get to troubleshoot much farther as I had to leave for work this morning, but I may try doing a factory reset of the Shield TV tonight. I can't remember what sequence of things I changed which caused it to stop showing the Dolby Vision notification and settings, but I did have it working where I was getting the Dolby Vision notifications and I had the Dolby Vision Picture modes available under the projector settings. I think somewhere in the mix I also upgrade to the newest Shield Experience, so I wonder if it was working for me under the last version.

For project tivy tools, is this what you are referring to?









[APP][ANDROID TV] Projectivy Launcher


Introduction ProjecTivy Launcher is a launcher dedicated to Android Tv, offering special features for Xiaomi family projectors/TVs. With the new major version that extends the use to all Android TV devices, and for better understanding, the...




forum.xda-developers.com







clipghost said:


> Thanks for your thoughts! I am sure one of the people here will have a fix for your dolby vision issue. But would you say the Focus is a huge downer in the sense of you would return it? How bad we talking?
> 
> Where did you buy the Formovie? Maybe they have a bad batch?


I got it from projectorscreen.com. I am not sure about returning it for the focus yet. I'll need to play with the project tivy tools as @ACE844 is suggesting first. I'll wait to post pictures until I have exhausted those options, because I want to make sure I have tried everything first.


----------



## MillerTyme

Few random issues/questions
1. Does anyone know the remote code for this projector? Trying to use the Amazon fire remote to turn it on/off
2. When I turn the projector on (every time) it says wifi disconnected and it won't list available networks at all, if I reset it it works but still annoying.
3. Anyone know how to get it to stop promoting me that the speakers are turned off (which I did intentionally) at startup?

Overall mostly minor issues, happy otherwise and really impressed with the picture quality upgrade coming from a epson 1080p ust (ls100) and the image adjustment setups are so much better and make positioning a breeze.

Thanks


----------



## ACE844

extension23 said:


> Thank you! This got me a little further. The DV and HDR options were enabled. I can go to the custom resolution and select the 12bit option, but my films still show up pink and pixelated (I think it was defaulting to 10bit.) Turning on the developer options and enabling the lldv option did get rid of that and it appears to work as my films now play and appear to have Dolby Vision being applied although when I go to the Picture settings it doesn't say Dolby Vision and I don't get the Dolby Vision Bright option. Something is happening though because if I turn off Dolby Vision on the Shield TV and watch the scene again, I can see that the colors and contrast are definitely different. I didn't get to troubleshoot much farther as I had to leave for work this morning, but I may try doing a factory reset of the Shield TV tonight. I can't remember what sequence of things I changed which caused it to stop showing the Dolby Vision notification and settings, but I did have it working where I was getting the Dolby Vision notifications and I had the Dolby Vision Picture modes available under the projector settings. I think somewhere in the mix I also upgrade to the newest Shield Experience, so I wonder if it was working for me under the last version.
> 
> For project tivy tools, is this what you are referring to?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [APP][ANDROID TV] Projectivy Launcher
> 
> 
> Introduction ProjecTivy Launcher is a launcher dedicated to Android Tv, offering special features for Xiaomi family projectors/TVs. With the new major version that extends the use to all Android TV devices, and for better understanding, the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum.xda-developers.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got it from projectorscreen.com. I am not sure about returning it for the focus yet. I'll need to play with the project tivy tools as @ACE844 is suggesting first. I'll wait to post pictures until I have exhausted those options, because I want to make sure I have tried everything first.


Yes the XDA link is to the project Tivy tools I referred to and there is several pages of discussion on it in the CN T1 thread which mirrors this one.

There is also a post there written by another member with pictures using the fengmi engineering menu on how to use the ai and cameras on the unit to tweak focus and this made a huge difference on my Cn unit. You may need to wait a little bit though as @spocky12 and @Brajesh are collaborating on getting a version together for the global/international variant. You'll want to wait for "Spocky12" to get into the firmware dump so you don't risk bricking your unit as the hardware is different from the global version of this UST.

Another option that may help you is to ensure all the firmware is up to date and doing a factory reset. I had to do this 2x to my cn variant after a firmware update and one weird issue
where all 3 lasers would make a weird rainbow across my screen and flash blocks of color. It's been more than 6 mos since that 2nd reset and my t1 has been running flawlessly .6-8hrs a day since.

If I am recalling correctly that you bought from projectorscreen.com. It's worthwhile to reach out to Brian @ProjectionHead here and or Dave Harper @Dave Harper and engage with them on the issues you are having with Your unit. 

My experiences with them have all been positive here. YMMV, b/c people.

Perhaps they could be of more assistance technically and from a cust. svc perspective. They have posted here that they have a calibration service where they QA the units and calibrate them before sending them out if you choose to go that route and you may find that a very valuable service for your situation. My unit came from Cn direct so...I don't have those options and I'm grateful that I haven't had any major issues with my unit.

HTH


----------



## demonray888

radstheater said:


> Like others, I think I'm having issues with the HDMI handshake.
> 
> I'm having issued using hdmi eARC with a 2.1 cable. I've tried 3 cables, all of which work on other setups.
> 
> When I have nothing plugged in to the projector everything works fine. Unfortunately, when I have everything hooked up with my surround sound via the eARC, I get glitches either the projector crashing or audio keeps cutting in and out.
> 
> I can get around this by unplugging the HDMI cable while the projector is playing and plugging it back in, but the problems happen next time I restart the projector. Obviously, this is not a viable solution.


I've also tried 4 HDMI 2.1 cables, attempting to play high bitrate or large size video content on the native Android projector apps (Plex, Youtube, Chromecast) via eARC will cause either the projector to crash (leading to a restart when using three of the 6ft 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cables), or the audio will cut in and out every few seconds (when using a 50ft fiber optic 2.1 cable). This is either a eARC problem, HDMI handshake issue, android projector app bugs, Denon AV receiver, or projector not able to handle the processing of those huge files natively.

I'm waiting for my Shield Pro to arrive to diagnose the issue more. Fingers crossed that it's really just the built-in android TV apps not playing nicely with the projector processor, and that an external streamer like the Shield will fix everything.


----------



## ACE844

demonray888 said:


> I'm waiting for my Shield Pro to arrive to diagnose the issue more. Fingers crossed that it's really just the built-in android TV apps not playing nicely with the projector processor, and that an external streamer like the Shield will fix everything.


I use the latest-gen 2019 shield pro for all my content except PJ tivy and one or 2 other non-streaming content apps. I purposely avoided using the T1 because I concerned about the lack of non "mickey mouse' cobbled together coding to be able to use various bits of android and streaming apps by the Cn manufacturer...

The shield has handled everything flawlessly for me so you should find a much better experience with it.

The handshake issues also exist on the Cn variant which I have and remain with the shield and irrelevant of cables I use, although I don't have the audio delay and AV mismatch many are describing with their global variants. 

The handshake issue is annoying but nothing like what you are describing. At an ephemeral time, the handshake fails and it causes an issue with the ATV+ app or some of the others. Usually, a quick toggle between 2.0 and 2.1 addresses the issue. On ATV+ it makes the content appear in a 360x480px size box in the upper left corner of the app. Usually, when it happens the kids come and ask for it to get fixed...


----------



## 3sprit

mirzank said:


> 3) wifi not connecting sometimes on startup
> and their response seemed to be that not only is there no problem they are aware of but that they don’t have any firmware


Here the wifi does not work: I choose the SSID, I enter the password, the arrow turns and tells me every time it does not find the SSID.


----------



## 3sprit

madmax777 said:


> please tell me, I think to buy such a system. can it work as an addition to the projector speakers or does it work ONLY separately?


I am testing a Q990B these days.
Either the soundbar connected via eARC / ARC works or the Theater sound system works. Together they don't work.
If the soundbar is connected to HDMI 3 (eARC / ARC) and the devices are connected to HDMI1-2, the optical output works at the same time as the soundbar but I have the problem of synchronization between the hi-fi system and the soundbar and the delay of the optical output to try to correct seems not to work or 250ms are not enough.


----------



## extension23

ACE844 said:


> Another option that may help you is to ensure all the firmware is up to date and doing a factory reset. I had to do this 2x to my cn variant after a firmware update and one weird issue
> where all 3 lasers would make a weird rainbow across my screen and flash blocks of color. It's been more than 6 mos since that 2nd reset and my t1 has been running flawlessly .6-8hrs a day since.
> 
> HTH


Factory reset to the Formovie seemed to be the key to fixing whatever my issue was. As soon as I did that and set it back up Dolby Vision began working as expected and looks great. I may still need to dial in the colors ever so slightly, but they are looking pretty decent close to the defaults.


----------



## clipghost

@ProjectionHead @Dave Harper 

I am curious what you guys think about all these complaints about the Formovie Theater lately. Sorry to point at you two, but you two are active here and have a connection to Formovie. 

From HDMI handshake issues, to Wifi problems, to them saying the out of focus is normal is horrible for their product. Lack of firmware updates too. It seems like very bad customer service all around if people have to come here to find solutions. It doesn't make a buyer very confident to buy this product if every other post in this thread is complaining about problems.

I understand you are sellers of the product with the goal of selling the projector, but can you guys get in touch with Formovie and let them know all these problems people are having? Do you know if they have any fixes in the pipeline? Have they said anything to you? Will their warranty cover stuff like this if purchased through you?


----------



## ramvignesh

Jeefo said:


> Sorry for replying to such an old message, but I'm designing our future home theater as we're redoing some of the drywall in our basement. Due to hvac/dropped ceiling limitations, we're forced to do an UST projector and are attempting to fit 130"-135" screen. So I'm leaning towards the Formovie Theater for its top notch specs (the new Epson LS800 is our second option). The trouble I'm having is the center channel location, and it basically seems like what you have here is the only real option, having the center just a couple inches off the ground, angled up, and the projector essentially on the ground or an inch or so up.
> I'm curious if your center audio is noticeable that it's coming from so low, even if it is angled to the ears? Does it bother you at all or would you say you're more or less satisfied with it?
> 
> 2nd option of ceiling mounting the Epson LS800 would force us to decrease to 125"-130" screen to have the center channel be at a more optimum height, but I'm wanting the better black levels of the Formovie and DV/HDR10+ support over the LS800.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Why don't you ceiling mount Formovie Theater?


----------



## ramvignesh

dreamprojector said:


> I do not see many comparisons between LS800 and Formovie Theater. If you have to choose between these for a dark basement, which one do you prefer? Here is some of my notes comparing these projectors:
> 
> 1. LS800 doesn't have Dolby Vision. Does it really matter?
> 2. Brand value. Epson is a known household name. I heard Formovie for the very first time this week.
> 3. Store Availability. I can walk-in to buy Epson in a BestBuy (BB) and can return at BB in case of any issues. However, that is not the case with Formovie.
> 4. Customer Service. Epson is not great with Customer Service but I know they have a team in the US. How good is Formovie Customer Support?
> 5. Audio. I heard that LS800 (Yamaha speakers) are not that great. Formovie audio is good. Will it really matter if I eventually connect to a 7.1 speaker setup.
> 6. Reviews. All the reviews of Formovie are posted on projectorscreen.com and almost nil from elsewhere. Epson got reviews from Best Buy, Amazon, projectorscreen.com.


Once you get to know about Formovie Theater, it's unlikely you would purchase any other model unless you are too lavish to spend 3 times more money for a better model.


----------



## Jeefo

ramvignesh said:


> Why don't you ceiling mount Formovie Theater?


My ceiling height of 92" would put the screen too low for how bad the throw ratio/angles work out for the Formovie if I want a screen size larger than 120". After planning it out a bit more, I've decided instead to go with a long throw with lens shift/memory so I can go with a scope screen, which would also not force the center channel to be so low. And can fit a larger screen.


----------



## Clementin0

Jeefo said:


> My ceiling height of 92" would put the screen too low for how bad the throw ratio/angles work out for the Formovie if I want a screen size larger than 120". After planning it out a bit more, I've decided instead to go with a long throw with lens shift/memory so I can go with a scope screen, which would also not force the center channel to be so low. And can fit a larger screen.


I’ve been thinking the same. Whether to get a Formovie with a 120” 16:9 screen or instead a 6050UB with a 140” scope screen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jeefo

Clementin0 said:


> I’ve been thinking the same. Whether to get a Formovie with a 120” 16:9 screen or instead a 6050UB with a 140” scope screen.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I just felt like I was sacrificing a lot going with an UST and being fixed to a 16:9 screen. Now to find who wants to make me a 2:1 screen for the best of both worlds content lol.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Jeefo said:


> Yeah I just felt like I was sacrificing a lot going with an UST and being fixed to a 16:9 screen. Now to find who wants to make me a 2:1 screen for the best of both worlds content lol.


That can be made custom by several manufacturers. In a dedicated theater room, Stewart Filmscreen Greymatte would be great for both UST and standard throw


----------



## alitvinenko

ProjectionHead said:


> You can use a subwoofer but you will have to control its volume separately from the projector.


How do you do that? i tried connecting via line out and the sound started going through subwoofer only.


----------



## Dave Harper

JackB said:


> I have an experienced ISF calibrator coming later this week. He has not done a Formovie and possibly not any UST. Is there anything unique about calibrating the Formovie he should be aware of? Is there anything unique about calibrating a UST in case he hasn't done one of those?


Just make sure his meter can read the very low bandwidth of RGB lasers, at least below 5nm, preferably 2nm, or at least one profiled to one of those. 

Another trip is that he will most likely have to tilt the meter back some time read the most amount of light reflecting from your CLR screen, if you use one. 

If he’s taking brightness/lumens measurements then to get the brightest reading you need to put the light meter towards the top center and angle the lens of it pointing down towards the UST’s lens. Do the same from each quadrant of the screen if doing ANSI, but that’s a royal PITA with USTs!

Also, don’t shy away from using just about ANY mode with these RGB laser units (and even others lately!). Some traditionally overdone modes like Vivid or dynamic can calibrate quite nicely and also give you a nice punchy colorful image for HDR and DV while still being accurate. In other words don’t just go the lazy route and do a quick analysis of each mode and pick the one closest out of the box to do your calibration from. Some may take a little more work and it requires greater skill and knowledge and patience, but the end results are worth it and can be spectacular!


----------



## alitvinenko

ProjectionHead said:


> They will be published in an upcoming blog post that Dave is writing about Formovie settings and optimization (including his personal HarperVision flair), but @Dave Harper you are free to send to @Brajesh now. Just please don’t publish them before we do.


Was this already posted?


----------



## DAtky

extension23 said:


> Figured I would throw in my initial thoughts on this after getting mine on Thursday. This is my first projector (unless you count an old RGB CRT I had in the early 90s.) After following this thread from the beginning and seeing the results of the shootout, I decided to take the plunge and purchase the Formovie for the room I have been building out for my home theater. Here are my notes/thoughts after playing around with it all weekend.
> 
> Screen - I opted not to purchase a CLR screen yet. I have been building out this theater room and it is light controlled so I figured I would see how it looked without a CLR screen first and go the DIY route. Ceiling and back wall are both painted black and because I was worried that I would not have a place to put the center channel, I opted to follow the advice of the people in the DIY screen threads and make my own frame and use 2 layers of spandex to make my own AT screen. I was very pleased by how well this worked. It was awesome hearing the sound coming from the center of the screen. I don't have a frame of reference for anything else, but in a light controlled room I thought the spandex screen worked extremely well and the picture looked very good.
> 
> nVidia Shield TV - Almost all of my content is local on my NAS. I use NVidia Shield TVs with Kodi with Emby for the backend/metadata syncing throughout my house currently. This works great, so I was hoping to continue using this as the whole household is used to using it with the other TVs. I still haven't worked out the kinks of Dolby Vision with the NVidia Shield TV (more on that below.)
> 
> Formovie Google Doc guide - I tried following the Google doc settings. Most of it produced very good results with only minor tweaking, however the bit about setting HDMI EDID to 2.1 and not auto caused Dolby Vision to stop working every time I tried it. At some point after trying to get this working I also broke Dolby Vision altogether.
> 
> Dolby Vision - I am really struggling to get this working. My files are UHD discs that I rip with Makemkv and I am playing back with the kodinerds build of kodi on the ShieldTV. At first I first I thought my issue with it not working was my Denon AVR, so I removed that from the loop and plugged my ShieldTV directly into the Formovie. After doing that and playing with the settings as per the Google Doc guide I had Dolby Vision working for a several hours. While it was working, I was getting the picture dialed I was really pleased with how everything looked. I am not sure which setting broke everything for me, but now whenever I play any Dolby Vision mkv from Kodinerds, the image is all pink and pixelated. I remember seeing something about this in one of the threads, but so far, I can't figure out how to get it back working again and I can't find the post about it. I tried resetting all the settings but even that didn't seem to work. The one thing this did reveal to me is that now I am going to have to go back re-rip a ton of my UHD discs as the older versions of makemkv I had used to rip the files on my NAS do not have the Dolby Vision metadata. (That is going to be a long fun project.)
> 
> Focus - I followed the advice here and waited check and adjust the focus. I did see some minor improvement on the upper left corner after the unit had been playing for several hours, however it never really gets a sharp focus in that corner. The lower right corner has exceptionally shar focus, but I could never get anywhere near the level of sharpness in the other corners. While the lack of sharp focus is not as noticeable in films or shows, it is noticeable anytime you are in Kodi or the Android TV interface. The fact that the first thing out of my wife's mouth when seeing those interfaces was "Why does it look kind of blurry?" is never a good sign when trying to get acceptance of one of my new toys.
> 
> Overall impression - The picture without Dolby Vision is great and when I can get it working the Dolby Vision picture was outstanding. The focus issue and Dolby Vision are a bummer. I don't think I can blame the Dolby Vision issue on the Formovie. I suspect it is more of an Nvidia or setting issue that I just messed up and I am sure I can eventually work through it. Heck even without it the picture looked great. Unfortunately, the focus is a bigger deal. I am tempted to open it up as mentioned in one of the posts, but I'd rather not void the warranty and it really feels like they should have fixed this after the feedback about this issue with the earlier batches. Unless there is something else to try, I am not sure what to do to try and fix this.
> 
> If anyone has any advice for fixing the Dolby Vision issue, I am having with Kodinerds, I am willing to give it a shot, because I am not having any success figuring it out on my own.


very interesting, going forward, I am looking at the same projector and the rest of your setup is exactly like mine, I am so interested in your findings


----------



## Jeefo

ProjectionHead said:


> That can be made custom by several manufacturers. In a dedicated theater room, Stewart Filmscreen Greymatte would be great for both UST and standard throw


Thanks for the recommendation! I've reached out to Stewart Filmscreen for more details.
Is there a reason you suggested the 0.7 gain Graymatte screen? I'm actually changing gears and planning on a JVC NP5 projector instead of the Formovie. In a total light controlled room and dark matte ceiling/front wall, would the ideal just be a 1.0 gain screen to not inadvertently raise the black floor unnecessarily? Or since the projector is on the dimmer side, should we get something slightly higher gain?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Jeefo said:


> Thanks for the recommendation! I've reached out to Stewart Filmscreen for more details.
> Is there a reason you suggested the 0.7 gain Graymatte screen? I'm actually changing gears and planning on a JVC NP5 projector instead of the Formovie. In a total light controlled room and dark matte ceiling/front wall, would the ideal just be a 1.0 gain screen to not inadvertently raise the black floor unnecessarily? Or since the projector is on the dimmer side, should we get something slightly higher gain?


Generally we’d suggest a ST100/130 for a JVC, specifically if you want 3D. What size screen are you considering?
Feel free to take to DM so we can get into detail


----------



## clipghost

clipghost said:


> @ProjectionHead @Dave Harper
> 
> I am curious what you guys think about all these complaints about the Formovie Theater lately. Sorry to point at you two, but you two are active here and have a connection to Formovie.
> 
> From HDMI handshake issues, to Wifi problems, to them saying the out of focus is normal is horrible for their product. Lack of firmware updates too. It seems like very bad customer service all around if people have to come here to find solutions. It doesn't make a buyer very confident to buy this product if every other post in this thread is complaining about problems.
> 
> I understand you are sellers of the product with the goal of selling the projector, but can you guys get in touch with Formovie and let them know all these problems people are having? Do you know if they have any fixes in the pipeline? Have they said anything to you? Will their warranty cover stuff like this if purchased through you?


Was a legitimate question...maybe we could get an answer?


----------



## brokenconduit

I have been trying to learn more about the Formovie Theater, it seems like it ticks all the boxes. But I see a lot of people using a device to make it...better with colors/contrast? Is it needed?


----------



## oplop

brokenconduit said:


> I have been trying to learn more about the Formovie Theater, it seems like it ticks all the boxes. But I see a lot of people using a device to make it...better with colors/contrast? Is it needed?


I've been using mine on a white wall (haven't decided the screen size yet) and the colors are amazing. At least as good as on my LG CX OLED TV. Blacks are decent as well and for example photos of deep space look really good.


----------



## mirzank

clipghost said:


> Was a legitimate question...maybe we could get an answer?


It seems they may be intentionally avoiding answering this question as it’s been asked a few times now ? 
Not sure why though, it’s not like we’re holding them responsible or anything as a reseller, just looking to them for some clarity as they’re more likely to get an accurate response from the company or convince them to fix something than we are.


----------



## Notrial

mirzank said:


> It seems they may be intentionally avoiding answering this question as it’s been asked a few times now ?
> Not sure why though, it’s not like we’re holding them responsible or anything as a reseller, just looking to them for some clarity as they’re more likely to get an accurate response from the company or convince them to fix something than we are.


I would assume they probably even tried to contact Formovie regarding these issues, but are getting the same generic answers as the rest of you. They are not avoiding answering, just don't have any updates on the subject.

I mean, did you actually expect some kind of after-sales support from a Chinese market-oriented company like Formovie?
They just started opening up to the global market, with lots of hurdles there, the language being one (when it comes to proper support).

It's just the case that we usually don't shell out 3K USD for such products. Assuming that the support quality goes up with the price is simply flawed logic.

That said, I've been buying various Chinese-marketed products for years from AliExpress and Banggood (Xiaomi, Aqara, Roborock, Yeelight, Baseus, UGreen etc.) and while they offer great bang for your buck, if something goes wrong, you are basically presented with two choices...return the product (and pay a lot for shipping) or live with the flaws.

Just my two cents


----------



## clipghost

mirzank said:


> It seems they may be intentionally avoiding answering this question as it’s been asked a few times now ?
> Not sure why though, it’s not like we’re holding them responsible or anything as a reseller, just looking to them for some clarity as they’re more likely to get an accurate response from the company or convince them to fix something than we are.


No clue but as buyers of the product, they should be able to answer these questions if they want to sell the product...


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> @ProjectionHead @Dave Harper
> 
> I am curious what you guys think about all these complaints about the Formovie Theater lately. Sorry to point at you two, but you two are active here and have a connection to Formovie.
> 
> From HDMI handshake issues, to Wifi problems, to them saying the out of focus is normal is horrible for their product. Lack of firmware updates too. It seems like very bad customer service all around if people have to come here to find solutions. It doesn't make a buyer very confident to buy this product if every other post in this thread is complaining about problems.
> 
> I understand you are sellers of the product with the goal of selling the projector, but can you guys get in touch with Formovie and let them know all these problems people are having? Do you know if they have any fixes in the pipeline? Have they said anything to you? Will their warranty cover stuff like this if purchased through you?


1- @Dave Harper does not sell anything; he reviews projectors and provides consulting/calibration for us.
2- *Of course* we are already sharing feedback with Formovie and if/when we have something to share, we will.
3- Items received defective get replaced, other items that have failures outside of the return period get handled through Formovie's warranty.



clipghost said:


> Was a legitimate question...maybe we could get an answer?


Geez, in case you don't remember, I am not exactly in love with you based on your previous attitude and have to prioritize my limited time as I have been recovering from Covid, out of office for 3+ weeks, catching up on mountains of emails, DMS, mentions, etc & preparing for the busiest time of the year.



mirzank said:


> It seems they may be intentionally avoiding answering this question as it’s been asked a few times now ?
> Not sure why though, it’s not like we’re holding them responsible or anything as a reseller, just looking to them for some clarity as they’re more likely to get an accurate response from the company or convince them to fix something than we are.


What has been asked a few times that you think that I am avoiding? Clipghost's questions from the other day that I had not yet had a chance to respond to and his repeated followups?
Believe it or not, I get quite a few mentions, DMs and emails and don't necessarily get the opportunity to reply to everything immediately. Please understand that just because I don't immediately answer something that I am not avoiding anything.

perhaps I missed the tag in the message as I get so many,
forgot to reply when I got to a computer (too lengthy to do from my phone),
got overwhelmed with the dozens of DMs I received this past week,
or just plain wanted a break from AVS for a day or two.
There is a telephone # and email address in my signature available for anyone to contact if they are interested in information and are not getting it here fast enough for their liking, for one reason or another.

I try to be as responsive as possible, but it can’t always be immediate.



Notrial said:


> I would assume they probably even tried to contact Formovie regarding these issues, but are getting the same generic answers as the rest of you. They are not avoiding answering, just don't have any updates on the subject.


You are correct and thank you for being reasonable.



clipghost said:


> No clue but as buyers of the product, they should be able to answer these questions if they want to sell the product...


@clipghost - this is the same type of attitude you displayed previously which has caused me to not be interested in engaging with you - Please contact Formovie directly going forward with any questions and as a "buyer of the product".


----------



## clipghost

ProjectionHead said:


> 1- @Dave Harper does not sell anything; he reviews projectors and provides consulting/calibration for us.
> 2- *Of course* we are already sharing feedback with Formovie and if/when we have something to share, we will.
> 3- Items received defective get replaced, other items that have failures outside of the return period get handled through Formovie's warranty.
> 
> 
> Geez, in case you don't remember, I am not exactly in love with you based on your previous attitude and have to prioritize my limited time as I have been recovering from Covid, out of office for 3+ weeks, catching up on mountains of emails, DMS, mentions, etc & preparing for the busiest time of the year.
> 
> 
> What has been asked a few times that you are insinuating that I am avoiding? Clipghost's questions from the other day that I had not yet had a chance to and his repeated followups?
> Believe it or not, I get quite a few mentions, DMs and emails and don't necessarily get the opportunity to reply to everything immediately. Please understand that just because I don't immediately answer something that I am not avoiding anything.
> 
> perhaps I missed the tag in the message as I get so many,
> forgot to reply when I got to a computer (too lengthy to do from my phone),
> got overwhelmed with the dozens of DMs I received this past week,
> or just plain wanted a break from AVS for a day or two.
> There is a telephone # and email address in my signature available for anyone to contact if they are interested in information and are not getting it here fast enough for their liking, for one reason or another.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct and thank you for being reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> @clipghost - this is the same type of attitude you displayed previously which has caused me to not be interested in engaging with you - Please contact Formovie directly going forward with any questions and as a "buyer of the product".


Brother, you hold grudges until the day you die. We have had conversations on this thread even after that exchange. I literally answered a question you asked me a few days ago about why I returned the AWOL...

I was asking a question in general about these concerns people have on the Formovie and you don't have an answer, that is fine. No worries on the delay but when you are talking and answering other peoples posts after mine, I figured it is not important for you to answer those questions. Other users wanted answers too so don't just pin it on me. I waited for a response and if you are answering other questions after...you don't seem busy, you seem selective.

Instead of just saying "*Of course* we are already sharing feedback with Formovie and if/when we have something to share, we will." You went back found 2 posts of us arguing. Congrats, way to help the forum out with their problems.


----------



## ProjectionHead

clipghost said:


> Brother, you hold grudges until the day you die. We have had conversations on this thread even after that exchange. I literally answered a question you asked me a few days ago about why I returned the AWOL...
> 
> I was asking a question in general about these concerns people have on the Formovie and you don't have an answer, that is fine. No worries on the delay but when you are talking and answering other peoples posts after mine, I figured it is not important for you to answer those questions. Other users wanted answers too so don't just pin it on me. I waited for a response and if you are answering other questions after...you don't seem busy, you seem selective.
> 
> Instead of just saying "*Of course* we are already sharing feedback with Formovie and if/when we have something to share, we will." You went back found 2 posts of us arguing. Congrats, way to help the forum out with their problems.


Again, this isn’t my forum. I am not sitting here reading and replying to every message in every thread in every subforum.
I am selective about how I spend my time and which posts that are not directed at me that I reply to.
If I don’t respond to posts specifically tagging/replying to me it may just be an oversight or perhaps I just don’t feel like engaging with that user at that time.

✌


----------



## MarcusD777

clipghost said:


> Brother, you hold grudges until the day you die. We have had conversations on this thread even after that exchange. I literally answered a question you asked me a few days ago about why I returned the AWOL...
> 
> I was asking a question in general about these concerns people have on the Formovie and you don't have an answer, that is fine. No worries on the delay but when you are talking and answering other peoples posts after mine, I figured it is not important for you to answer those questions. Other users wanted answers too so don't just pin it on me. I waited for a response and if you are answering other questions after...you don't seem busy, you seem selective.
> 
> Instead of just saying "*Of course* we are already sharing feedback with Formovie and if/when we have something to share, we will." You went back found 2 posts of us arguing. Congrats, way to help the forum out with their problems.


I can't say I understand any animosity to Brian and his company in regard to the Formovie issues presented. I don't know him personally but he has always extended himself here and on various platforms to offer sound advice and perspective on the industry and the products he sells. If there ever is an issue, he is the first one to try and resolve it. Often times, on behalf of other companies mishaps. He is a resource to this forum and certainly divulges a lot of information that the normal consumer does not get a chance to hear about. If anything this forum should be championing him to speak about issues anyone has had with their Formovie projector to communicate directly with the company as a main seller of their product in the US. Certainly not trying to call him out while he has been recovering from Covid over the past month due to his slow response time.

I have purchased a Formovie projector from Brian and have come across similar issues with the projector. All of them I have resolved on my own behalf.

- Blurry corners upon start up -- Let the projector warm up for 20 - 30 minutes and readjust the focus by holding the left arrow down for 10 - 15 seconds, then pressing it on and off until the corners tighten up. The focus ring on many of the units past 120" get a little touchy and needs time to adjust. If still blurry, reposition your projector to ensure it is squared up correctly to your screen and not skewed to cause any additional distortion or potential blurriness. I am utilizing a 135" screen and can get about 90 - 95% sharpness in all corners. 

- HDMI handshake issues -- I have an HD Fury Vertex 2 in line and have experienced ZERO handshake issues, audio drop outs or resetting EDIDs. I have all the devices available Nvidia Shield Pro, Roku Ultra and an Apple TV and have no issues. Should you have to purchase one of these to ensure seamless integration with your system, ABSOLUTELY NOT, but that is not on Brian. 

As someone who is a Senior Director of Sales for a global leading Event Technology company, I can attest that Brian is rare breed that we should be respecting a bit more than the past few posts have demonstrated.

Personal issues aside let's keep this forum positive and make sure we are communicating effectively with each other on all fronts.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> What has been asked a few times that you think that I am avoiding? Clipghost's questions from the other day that I had not yet had a chance to respond to and his repeated followups?
> Believe it or not, I get quite a few mentions, DMs and emails and don't necessarily get the opportunity to reply to everything immediately. Please understand that just because I don't immediately answer something that I am not avoiding anything.
> 
> perhaps I missed the tag in the message as I get so many,
> forgot to reply when I got to a computer (too lengthy to do from my phone),
> got overwhelmed with the dozens of DMs I received this past week,
> or just plain wanted a break from AVS for a day or two.
> There is a telephone # and email address in my signature available for anyone to contact if they are interested in information and are not getting it here fast enough for their liking, for one reason or another.
> 
> I try to be as responsive as possible, but it can’t always be immediate.


My message may have come across as unnecessarily harsh or unfair so apologies. You guys have been very good with addressing things here and helping out potential and current owners so thanks for that. And yes ofcourse you do this voluntarily and you've got a main business to deal with so ofcourse our expectation shouldn't be you will address everything here and do it immediately.

To give you some context I had asked a few days ago if you either had some info on 1) whether formovie is aware of these issues, 2) whether they are working on a fix if they are aware, or 3) they have no clue/dont acknowledge any of these issues exist. I have emailed them a few times about my remote losing connection constantly and wifi not connecting until i restart, and have told them others are having similar issues and each time they have said they are not aware of this being a general problem, and they havent really discussed firmware releases or mentioned that any fixes are being worked on. Thats why I thought you as a reseller may either have this info, or atleast may know someone higher up the chain that you could check with or inform of these issues being reported. I know thats not your job at all and you're not obligated to do any of it, It was more of a request as its more likely you would have the attention of someone higher at Formovie as a reseller.


----------



## mirzank

Notrial said:


> I would assume they probably even tried to contact Formovie regarding these issues, but are getting the same generic answers as the rest of you. They are not avoiding answering, just don't have any updates on the subject.
> 
> I mean, did you actually expect some kind of after-sales support from a Chinese market-oriented company like Formovie?
> They just started opening up to the global market, with lots of hurdles there, the language being one (when it comes to proper support).
> 
> It's just the case that we usually don't shell out 3K USD for such products. Assuming that the support quality goes up with the price is simply flawed logic.
> 
> That said, I've been buying various Chinese-marketed products for years from AliExpress and Banggood (Xiaomi, Aqara, Roborock, Yeelight, Baseus, UGreen etc.) and while they offer great bang for your buck, if something goes wrong, you are basically presented with two choices...return the product (and pay a lot for shipping) or live with the flaws.
> 
> Just my two cents


Yep you're right, i wasn't expecting much in terms of after sales support, and i've been super happy with my projector. its unfortunate that the annoyances with this projector are not about the core functions (which are the more technologically complex things to get right), but rather are annoyances on basic things they should have gotten right (i.e. bluetooth remote technology and wifi are old tech, id think its easy to get those right).

As for the assumption that they tried to contact formovie about these issues and received generic responses, I wouldn't have assumed that at all. They're one of the few resellers of this projector globally (the only one in North America as far as I know, and I only know of a few other resellers in europe), and i suspect they contribute a big chunk of sales of the international version. i'd assume not only would a major reseller be dealing with someone higher up the chain in management (unlike me as a normal consumer who just gets a normal customer support agent), but that they would be able to convince them more easily to look into the issue, or be able to contact someone higher up in the technical team if they pushed. If they are getting the same generic response that we are, then i suspect formovie may not even know there is an issue, or the reseller may not know there is an issue and thus not brining it to formovie's attention. My message was only to get clarity on what is going on, to see if either we can convince someone to deal with these issues, or give up on the issues and stop bringing it up repeatedly.


----------



## RazB

I agree with @mirzank. 
The situation is that we as small customers feel like we got no one to really talk to when it comes to Formovie / Fengmi 's support.
It doesn't seem they acknowledge any of the problems, give excuses or generic messages. Even though they might be "responsive" we still feel ignored, there is no way around it. They are not offering any real solutions or useful information.

We just hope resellers, such as Brian, might have a better chance than ourselves, getting to Formovie with this, on our and their customers behalf, who also experience similar issues.
The work and effort of Brian, Dave, Grégory or anyone else who contributed here is much appreciated.
I personally have a great gratitude to you all.

We are just frustrated. This projector hits so many spots at it's core and if you are lucky with your unit all is good, but if not you are quite helpless.
Sending the projector all the way to China at your own expense with no guarantee that whatever you receive back will be any better (if not worse) is not something one would do unless of a major problem.
This doesn't mean we shouldn't get support for other still meaningful issues.

Once again, thank you all for your contribution and help.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> My message may have come across as unnecessarily harsh or unfair so apologies. You guys have been very good with addressing things here and helping out potential and current owners so thanks for that. And yes ofcourse you do this voluntarily and you've got a main business to deal with so ofcourse our expectation shouldn't be you will address everything here and do it immediately.
> 
> To give you some context I had asked a few days ago if you either had some info on 1) whether formovie is aware of these issues, 2) whether they are working on a fix if they are aware, or 3) they have no clue/dont acknowledge any of these issues exist. I have emailed them a few times about my remote losing connection constantly and wifi not connecting until i restart, and have told them others are having similar issues and each time they have said they are not aware of this being a general problem, and they havent really discussed firmware releases or mentioned that any fixes are being worked on. Thats why I thought you as a reseller may either have this info, or atleast may know someone higher up the chain that you could check with or inform of these issues being reported. I know thats not your job at all and you're not obligated to do any of it, It was more of a request as its more likely you would have the attention of someone higher at Formovie as a reseller.


I don’t see any notifications that mention your name going back through all of November. 
Did you ask me the question specifically by tagging me or replying to one of my messages so that I would be notified? I apologize if I missed it, but if you don’t do that, how would I be expected to know?


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> I don’t see any notifications that mention your name going back through all of November.
> Did you ask me the question specifically by tagging me or replying to one of my messages so that I would be notified? I apologize if I missed it, but if you don’t do that, how would I be expected to know?


To be honest I didn't tag you because I totally get your help here is voluntary, so i didn't want to contribute to your already overburdened inbox. I figured you read these forums anyway. The downside of that politeness ofcourse I now realize is that its probably tougher for you to follow things if you're not tagged in it specifically  you probably follow a whole bunch of different threads while I'm only keeping track of two.
Again didn't mean to come off as trying to hold you responsible or something, i read my words again and yeah they sounded harsher than i meant them


----------



## ProjectionHead

alitvinenko said:


> Was this already posted?


Unfortunately not yet, we are way behind on our posting schedule ;(


----------



## Tanizhq

demonray888 said:


> I've also tried 4 HDMI 2.1 cables, attempting to play high bitrate or large size video content on the native Android projector apps (Plex, Youtube, Chromecast) via eARC will cause either the projector to crash (leading to a restart when using three of the 6ft 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cables), or the audio will cut in and out every few seconds (when using a 50ft fiber optic 2.1 cable). This is either a eARC problem, HDMI handshake issue, android projector app bugs, Denon AV receiver, or projector not able to handle the processing of those huge files natively.
> 
> I'm waiting for my Shield Pro to arrive to diagnose the issue more. Fingers crossed that it's really just the built-in android TV apps not playing nicely with the projector processor, and that an external streamer like the Shield will fix everything.


I am using Plex on the Shield Pro and am having those same audio cut outs, every few seconds it seems to blink in and out. I have everything set to passthrough. And the issue only happens with Dolby TrueHD Atmos 7.1 formats, everything else is okay. It is driving me crazy currently, can't use eARC properly for any Blueray Remuxes


----------



## 3sprit

oplop said:


> I've been using mine on a white wall (haven't decided the screen size yet) and the colors are amazing. At least as good as on my LG CX OLED TV. Blacks are decent as well and for example photos of deep space look really good.


I am still without a screen and I use the wall but the black is very "bright". Too much.
I'll try to measure it.

P.S.
I lost the link to the settings suggested by various users again.
Ashes on my head. 😞


----------



## luisalbertokid

Tanizhq said:


> I am using Plex on the Shield Pro and am having those same audio cut outs, every few seconds it seems to blink in and out. I have everything set to passthrough. And the issue only happens with Dolby TrueHD Atmos 7.1 formats, everything else is okay. It is driving me crazy currently, can't use eARC properly for any Blueray Remuxes


Plex has problems with TrueHD for quite some time. I don't even try it anymore, whenever the audio is TrueHD I use Emby which works great.


----------



## clipghost

mirzank said:


> My message may have come across as unnecessarily harsh or unfair so apologies. You guys have been very good with addressing things here and helping out potential and current owners so thanks for that. And yes ofcourse you do this voluntarily and you've got a main business to deal with so ofcourse our expectation shouldn't be you will address everything here and do it immediately.
> 
> To give you some context I had asked a few days ago if you either had some info on 1) whether formovie is aware of these issues, 2) whether they are working on a fix if they are aware, or 3) they have no clue/dont acknowledge any of these issues exist. I have emailed them a few times about my remote losing connection constantly and wifi not connecting until i restart, and have told them others are having similar issues and each time they have said they are not aware of this being a general problem, and they havent really discussed firmware releases or mentioned that any fixes are being worked on. Thats why I thought you as a reseller may either have this info, or atleast may know someone higher up the chain that you could check with or inform of these issues being reported. I know thats not your job at all and you're not obligated to do any of it, It was more of a request as its more likely you would have the attention of someone higher at Formovie as a reseller.





mirzank said:


> Yep you're right, i wasn't expecting much in terms of after sales support, and i've been super happy with my projector. its unfortunate that the annoyances with this projector are not about the core functions (which are the more technologically complex things to get right), but rather are annoyances on basic things they should have gotten right (i.e. bluetooth remote technology and wifi are old tech, id think its easy to get those right).
> 
> As for the assumption that they tried to contact formovie about these issues and received generic responses, I wouldn't have assumed that at all. They're one of the few resellers of this projector globally (the only one in North America as far as I know, and I only know of a few other resellers in europe), and i suspect they contribute a big chunk of sales of the international version. i'd assume not only would a major reseller be dealing with someone higher up the chain in management (unlike me as a normal consumer who just gets a normal customer support agent), but that they would be able to convince them more easily to look into the issue, or be able to contact someone higher up in the technical team if they pushed. If they are getting the same generic response that we are, then i suspect formovie may not even know there is an issue, or the reseller may not know there is an issue and thus not brining it to formovie's attention. My message was only to get clarity on what is going on, to see if either we can convince someone to deal with these issues, or give up on the issues and stop bringing it up repeatedly.





RazB said:


> I agree with @mirzank.
> The situation is that we as small customers feel like we got no one to really talk to when it comes to Formovie / Fengmi 's support.
> It doesn't seem they acknowledge any of the problems, give excuses or generic messages. Even though they might be "responsive" we still feel ignored, there is no way around it. They are not offering any real solutions or useful information.
> 
> We just hope resellers, such as Brian, might have a better chance than ourselves, getting to Formovie with this, on our and their customers behalf, who also experience similar issues.
> The work and effort of Brian, Dave, Grégory or anyone else who contributed here is much appreciated.
> I personally have a great gratitude to you all.
> 
> We are just frustrated. This projector hits so many spots at it's core and if you are lucky with your unit all is good, but if not you are quite helpless.
> Sending the projector all the way to China at your own expense with no guarantee that whatever you receive back will be any better (if not worse) is not something one would do unless of a major problem.
> This doesn't mean we shouldn't get support for other still meaningful issues.
> 
> Once again, thank you all for your contribution and help.


Agree with everything you said. You all deserve answers and better support from Formovie. And everyone looking to buy the product needs to know the lack of support/ignore from them.


----------



## mirzank

clipghost said:


> Agree with everything you said. You all deserve answers and better support from Formovie. And everyone looking to buy the product needs to know the lack of support/ignore from them.


While I don’t regret spending the 3k’ish on the projector, as a customer I would expect though that the company would work on fixing these “minor” issues. I currently have two Units, but I wouldn’t recommend this projector to other people that always ask me for recommendations. It may seem like a minor thing that wifi or remote doesn’t work, but it’s actually quite painful. For example if my wife is there and I’m not and the remote doesn’t work, she has no idea how to get it up and running. If the projector image was slightly less good, she wouldn’t even notice, but the fact that remote doesn’t work she does notice. So for a typical consumer arguably these minor issues are actually quite major and core to the functioning of the pj. The fact that formovie is not bothering with these fixes that should be quite easy (unless they’ve used some super sub par hardware for Bluetooth and wifi and this is a hardware issue), tells me in the future I wouldn’t take anything they release seriously and would purchase a more well known brand. E.g the Epson ls800 is generally in the same league (yes I realise it’s single laser), and backed by a more serious name.


----------



## clipghost

mirzank said:


> While I don’t regret spending the 3k’ish on the projector, as a customer I would expect though that the company would work on fixing these “minor” issues. I currently have two Units, but I wouldn’t recommend this projector to other people that always ask me for recommendations. It may seem like a minor thing that wifi or remote doesn’t work, but it’s actually quite painful. For example if my wife is there and I’m not and the remote doesn’t work, she has no idea how to get it up and running. If the projector image was slightly less good, she wouldn’t even notice, but the fact that remote doesn’t work she does notice. So for a typical consumer arguably these minor issues are actually quite major and core to the functioning of the pj. The fact that formovie is not bothering with these fixes that should be quite easy (unless they’ve used some super sub par hardware for Bluetooth and wifi and this is a hardware issue), tells me in the future I wouldn’t take anything they release seriously and would purchase a more well known brand. E.g the Epson ls800 is generally in the same league (yes I realise it’s single laser), and backed by a more serious name.


Yup, I am with you. You have the Global version correct? Also why do you have 2?


----------



## mirzank

clipghost said:


> Yup, I am with you. You have the Global version correct? Also why do you have 2?


Yes the global version. Have two for two different homes.


----------



## g3m

Considering the level of support that is to be expected on UST, I'll share my experience. 

This is my second UST, the first one (Cinemax P1) being from Optoma whom is a well established brand in this space I believe, and I came to the conclusion that you will get one or two firmware updates at best. Usually they will ship the hardware before the software is completely done so you will get a firmware update shortly after launch. The second one will come, if lucky, a couple months after the first one to fix major issues. 

I think the software teams working on UST are pretty small, even for the "known brands", and they are often tasked on working on software for the next product that will bring money for the company. Supporting the current user base is a secondary objective I think. Maybe I'm wrong and there are UST with multiple firmware updates over the years, I would be curious to hear about them.

My take for any UST (not specificaly this one from Formovie) is either you keep the product or return it within the return Window if it's not working as advertised and that you can't live with the issue. I wouldn't put too much fate in future firmware updates unless the company announce officialy they are working on it.


----------



## DesertDog

DesertDog said:


> I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:
> View attachment 3354363
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back.
> 
> I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.
> 
> Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


@ProjectionHead hope you're feeling better from covid now. Any chance you or @Dave Harper have run into this issue when working with the GT1 or have any ideas for a work around? I'm seeing it more frequently now, or at least noticing it more. I've been sick this week too and have been laying around watching too much TV. It happened at least 3 times on Wednesday and twice yesterday. 

I was mainly streaming YouTube videos when it was happening but I have seen it once with a 4K DV movie so I don't think it's due to scaling like I had hypothesized. It might have been in this state when I started it and didn't notice until shortly into into it though. I can't say for sure. I wish I could figure out how to cause it to happen other then watch until it happens so that I can write a proper bug report for formovie and try to find a mitigation. 

If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear them.


----------



## ProjectionHead

DesertDog said:


> @ProjectionHead hope you're feeling better from covid now. Any chance you or @Dave Harper have run into this issue when working with the GT1 or have any ideas for a work around? I'm seeing it more frequently now, or at least noticing it more. I've been sick this week too and have been laying around watching too much TV. It happened at least 3 times on Wednesday and twice yesterday.
> 
> I was mainly streaming YouTube videos when it was happening but I have seen it once with a 4K DV movie so I don't think it's due to scaling like I had hypothesized. It might have been in this state when I started it and didn't notice until shortly into into it though. I can't say for sure. I wish I could figure out how to cause it to happen other then watch until it happens so that I can write a proper bug report for formovie and try to find a mitigation.
> 
> If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear them.


Please shoot me an email with the details and some pics; I’ll share with Formovie. I’ve never run into this myself but we did have someone once report something similar. I’ll see if Formovie has any insight and we’ll make sure you’re taken care of.
Feel better soon! ❤‍🩹


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> Please shoot me an email with the details and some pics; I’ll share with Formovie. I’ve never run into this myself but we did have someone once report something similar. I’ll see if Formovie has any insight and we’ll make sure you’re taken care of.
> Feel better soon! ❤‍🩹


Thanks! I'll write that up tomorrow when my head is a little clearer. First day back to work after being sick and I'm feeling it.  I have some additional photos from the last couple days. I know I have a couple before and after picts of when I toggled the settings to clear it.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Please shoot me an email with the details and some pics; I’ll share with Formovie. I’ve never run into this myself but we did have someone once report something similar. I’ll see if Formovie has any insight and we’ll make sure you’re taken care of.
> Feel better soon! ❤‍🩹


@ProjectionHead any chance you could also convey the issues with remotes constantly unpairing and wifi not connecting ? We’ve been discussing over a few days now, so wondering if you are able to convey these issues to formovie. A lot of people seem to be having this issue here so clearly it’s not a niche problem.


----------



## rjyap

Personally I would treat all UST projectors as display device as primary function. Most of the issue I read mostly using internal apps as player. my advice if u like the PQ and would like to stick to it, just get an external player such as Apple TV, Shield or HTPC. I wouldn’t want to jump to another UST with lower PQ just because the internal app is better or onboard speakers are better.


----------



## Dave Harper

MarcusD777 said:


> I can't say I understand any animosity to Brian and his company in regard to the Formovie issues presented. I don't know him personally but he has always extended himself here and on various platforms to offer sound advice and perspective on the industry and the products he sells. If there ever is an issue, he is the first one to try and resolve it. Often times, on behalf of other companies mishaps. He is a resource to this forum and certainly divulges a lot of information that the normal consumer does not get a chance to hear about. If anything this forum should be championing him to speak about issues anyone has had with their Formovie projector to communicate directly with the company as a main seller of their product in the US. Certainly not trying to call him out while he has been recovering from Covid over the past month due to his slow response time.
> 
> I have purchased a Formovie projector from Brian and have come across similar issues with the projector. All of them I have resolved on my own behalf.
> 
> - Blurry corners upon start up -- Let the projector warm up for 20 - 30 minutes and readjust the focus by holding the left arrow down for 10 - 15 seconds, then pressing it on and off until the corners tighten up. The focus ring on many of the units past 120" get a little touchy and needs time to adjust. If still blurry, reposition your projector to ensure it is squared up correctly to your screen and not skewed to cause any additional distortion or potential blurriness. I am utilizing a 135" screen and can get about 90 - 95% sharpness in all corners.
> 
> - HDMI handshake issues -- I have an HD Fury Vertex 2 in line and have experienced ZERO handshake issues, audio drop outs or resetting EDIDs. I have all the devices available Nvidia Shield Pro, Roku Ultra and an Apple TV and have no issues. Should you have to purchase one of these to ensure seamless integration with your system, ABSOLUTELY NOT, but that is not on Brian.
> 
> *As someone who is a Senior Director of Sales for a global leading Event Technology company, *I can attest that Brian is rare breed that we should be respecting a bit more than the past few posts have demonstrated.
> 
> Personal issues aside let's keep this forum positive and make sure we are communicating effectively with each other on all fronts.


Encore? (Prior PSAV)

I was a Director of Event Technology for PSAV in Hawaii for about 10 years. 



DesertDog said:


> @ProjectionHead hope you're feeling better from covid now. Any chance you or @Dave Harper have run into this issue when working with the GT1 or have any ideas for a work around? I'm seeing it more frequently now, or at least noticing it more. I've been sick this week too and have been laying around watching too much TV. It happened at least 3 times on Wednesday and twice yesterday.
> 
> I was mainly streaming YouTube videos when it was happening but I have seen it once with a 4K DV movie so I don't think it's due to scaling like I had hypothesized. It might have been in this state when I started it and didn't notice until shortly into into it though. I can't say for sure. I wish I could figure out how to cause it to happen other then watch until it happens so that I can write a proper bug report for formovie and try to find a mitigation.
> 
> If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear them.


I’ve seen this before. Once it was shut down and turned on I never saw it again. Maybe try doing a factory reset and see if it returns. It looks to me like a software glitch.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> @ProjectionHead any chance you could also convey the issues with remotes constantly unpairing and wifi not connecting ? We’ve been discussing over a few days now, so wondering if you are able to convey these issues to formovie. A lot of people seem to be having this issue here so clearly it’s not a niche problem.


We have already shared this and provided them links to this thread, some specific posts as well as a log of items that we have deemed defective that they need to replace.
I have no statement from them regarding these issues to share, but I know they are aware and obviously want to find source, correct and provide a better experience for all.


----------



## MarcusD777

Dave Harper said:


> Encore? (Prior PSAV)
> 
> I was a Director of Event Technology for PSAV in Hawaii for about 10 years.


Ha small world! I was a Director for about 10+ years myself on the Swank/PSAV (now Encore) side and transitioned over to Sales. I’m based out of the Boston region.


----------



## MarcusD777

DesertDog said:


> @ProjectionHead hope you're feeling better from covid now. Any chance you or @Dave Harper have run into this issue when working with the GT1 or have any ideas for a work around? I'm seeing it more frequently now, or at least noticing it more. I've been sick this week too and have been laying around watching too much TV. It happened at least 3 times on Wednesday and twice yesterday.
> 
> I was mainly streaming YouTube videos when it was happening but I have seen it once with a 4K DV movie so I don't think it's due to scaling like I had hypothesized. It might have been in this state when I started it and didn't notice until shortly into into it though. I can't say for sure. I wish I could figure out how to cause it to happen other then watch until it happens so that I can write a proper bug report for formovie and try to find a mitigation.
> 
> If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear them.


 I ran into this issue for the first time yesterday and did a full reboot of the GT1 and Vertex 2 which resolved the issue. Will report back if It happens again and more frequently.


----------



## Dave Harper

MarcusD777 said:


> Ha small world! I was a Director for about 10+ years myself on the Swank/PSAV (now Encore) side and transitioned over to Sales. I’m based out of the Boston region.


Cool! Do you know AJ Galvin? He was in Hawaii and was the Director at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott before me. I understand he’s in the New England area now.


----------



## MarcusD777

Dave Harper said:


> Cool! Do you know AJ Galvin? He was in Hawaii and was the Director at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott before me. I understand he’s in the New England area now.


Yes, AJ and I go way back. Great guy.


----------



## gymnos

I have just purchased this PJ and the first impressions are very good, PQ and Bowers & Wilkins integrated sound are amazing.

Otherwise, I couldn´t get 5.1 audio from optical output when streaming Amazon Prime Video, other internal apps works okay e.g. Disney+.

Could you test the optical output with Amazon Prime Video and let me know your findings?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> I’ve seen this before. Once it was shut down and turned on I never saw it again. Maybe try doing a factory reset and see if it returns. It looks to me like a software glitch.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. It definitely feels like a software glitch to me too with the way I can fix it with a mode switch. I'll hold off a day since it's the weekend anyway on emailing @ProjectionHead the issue's details so that I can include if I see any results from the reset.


----------



## Baulte

whenever I want to watch the formovie theatre the power on remote or button on unit doesn’t turn it on. Need to unplug it from the wall. It has 4 lights on the front when I try and turn it on.
Any ideas how to resolve?


----------



## radstheater

Baulte said:


> whenever I want to watch the formovie theatre the power on remote or button on unit doesn’t turn it on. Need to unplug it from the wall. It has 4 lights on the front when I try and turn it on. Any ideas how to resolve?


 Try doing a factory reset. Sounds silly but has solved my issues several times as well as several other members


----------



## mirzank

Baulte said:


> whenever I want to watch the formovie theatre the power on remote or button on unit doesn’t turn it on. Need to unplug it from the wall. It has 4 lights on the front when I try and turn it on.
> Any ideas how to resolve?


The remote losing connection is a regular problem lots of people are having, but button on unit should turn it on. Have you tried long press ? I am not sure how but there is different behaviour of long press and short press of buttons. Short press is like sleep and long press is turn off. And I believe after some time projector goes from sleep to turned off. So maybe you need to long press power for it to work. Give it a try otherwise factory reset.


----------



## RickMes

I finished assembling my Elite Screen Aeon Edge Free 90" with a friend and only when finished did I notice that the bottom edge was.nit perfectly aligned because the frame move about half a centimeter in relation to the fabric (this not respecting perfect 35mm margins) as you can see from the photos (green is good, red is bad).

Now, the fabric seems perfectly flat but I am afraid that it may develop waves for not being perfectly symmetrically tensioned. Should I disassemble the springs and align it better? Is it okay to do this?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Ampro4600

As far as I have understood, the Formovie Theater does come with a soft/out of focus picture in the corners. Is there a QC lottery element to buying the Formovie, as in some units are better than others in this regard?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Question for those of you who have wall mounted a center speaker just below your screen. How much depth do you have, front to back, to be able to mount the speaker and not interfere (or block) the laser projector? In my case, I have a 100" screen.


----------



## mirzank

Ampro4600 said:


> As far as I have understood, the Formovie Theater does come with a soft/out of focus picture in the corners. Is there a QC lottery element to buying the Formovie, as in some units are better than others in this regard?


in some of the cases where you have soft focus in corners, specifically top left corner, i believe most are able to fix it by going into the focus settings. that was the case for me, initially top left corner was a bit fuzzy but going into the focus settings completely fixed it.
Even in its out of focus form while text may have been slightly blurry such as on the google tv interface or some other text screens, it made no difference when watching actual content as 1) most of the time the top left corner is black bars anyway and 2) text is much easier to see blurriness in than an actual image.
So yeah, I wouldn't say people don't have focus problems, just that in some cases it can be fixed and in the cases it cant I don't think it would make a tremendous amount of difference.


----------



## zoomx2

Ricoflashback said:


> Question for those of you who have wall mounted a center speaker just below your screen. How much depth do you have, front to back, to be able to mount the speaker and not interfere (or block) the laser projector? In my case, I have a 100" screen.


Depends on how close to the bottom of the screen. Use a cardboard cover from the lens to the bottom of the screen, then you know how low and depth to mount the speaker.


----------



## ramvignesh

Ricoflashback said:


> Question for those of you who have wall mounted a center speaker just below your screen. How much depth do you have, front to back, to be able to mount the speaker and not interfere (or block) the laser projector? In my case, I have a 100" screen.


Attached the PJ placement guide pictures from the below review.








Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS - Formovie Formovie-Theater


#Formovie-Theater - Formovie Theater Ultra Short Throw Projector 2800 Lumen Triple Laser UST Fengmi T1 Global Android OS




www.projectorscreen.com




Considering the screen should be around 2 feet from the floor, it's impossible to elevate the center speaker off the floor. I am using Emotiva C2 and it's quite big. I am planning to ceiling mount the projector and invert the ALR screen. I couldn't imagine any other setup other than ceiling mount the PJ. 
There is no space to put the speaker behind the screen. 
Pls let me know if any of you have better suggestion on this.


----------



## lattiboy

Weird, but since I put a Hue Sync HDMI box between my ATV4K and PS5 I haven’t had any of the annoying HDMI issues with sensing inputs and randomly acting like things aren’t connected. Really wish Fengmi would fix the HDMI stuff as it’s really the only big annoyance on this thing.


----------



## Mrkillamilla

Hi all, new to projector guy here. Would like to ask which model should I get, the chinese T1 or the costlier international version? I will not be using any OS as I will be using mainly Apple TV. Im only worried about the reddish tint on the chinese T1 which im not sure if it was fixed in any updates. Please advise, thank you! Would be using in a dedicated theater room with t prism ALR UST screen at 150".


----------



## dimox

iitywygms said:


> That's not light bleed. It's just the way the camera took the picture. I've got LEDs all around the outside of the screen. Here's a pic without the LEDs on.
> View attachment 3349838


 Hello! Really nice hack! What is the minimum screen size you can get with this slide system?


----------



## Ricoflashback

zoomx2 said:


> Depends on how close to the bottom of the screen. Use a cardboard cover from the lens to the bottom of the screen, then you know how low and depth to mount the speaker.


Thanks! Great idea! I'll just use a cardboard cut out of the center speaker I'm thinking of and then place it at the top most point that will enable the center channel to fit the height measurements. I'll have to account for the speaker connection (bare wire will be best) and if it won't fit my 100" ALR screen, I'll just go with a phantom center.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Mrkillamilla said:


> Hi all, new to projector guy here. Would like to ask which model should I get, the chinese T1 or the costlier international version? I will not be using any OS as I will be using mainly Apple TV. Im only worried about the reddish tint on the chinese T1 which im not sure if it was fixed in any updates. Please advise, thank you! Would be using in a dedicated theater room with t prism ALR UST screen at 150".


I'm partial to the latest and greatest International Theater T1 as it still has the ease of the Android operating system (regardless whether you use it to stream or not - - which I never do) and it will be supported better than the original Chinese T1. Read the original T1 thread to see what I mean. The colors and black levels on the GT1 (Global Theater T1) are flat out phenomenal.


----------



## clipghost

zoomx2 said:


> Depends on how close to the bottom of the screen. Use a cardboard cover from the lens to the bottom of the screen, then you know how low and depth to mount the speaker.





Ricoflashback said:


> Thanks! Great idea! I'll just use a cardboard cut out of the center speaker I'm thinking of and then place it at the top most point that will enable the center channel to fit the height measurements. I'll have to account for the speaker connection (bare wire will be best) and if it won't fit my 100" ALR screen, I'll just go with a phantom center.


I feel dumb for not understanding what you mean with the cardboard cutout....can we explain it like I am 5? How would the cardboard cover be used? At an angle or flat?


----------



## gymnos

Mrkillamilla said:


> ... I'm only worried about the reddish tint on the chinese T1 which im not sure if it was fixed in any updates. Please advise, thank you!
> ...


What do you mean with that? I have noticed some kind of reddish tint in faces, skin... (Global version and Cinema preset)

The Google Docs guide for setting up this thing stays that it is a firmware update for September, mine is on July firmware version and no update available.


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> I feel dumb for not understanding what you mean with the cardboard cutout....can we explain it like I am 5? How would the cardboard cover be used? At an angle or flat?


Not a dumb question at all. As I see it - I’ll cut out from a cardboard box the length and width of my proposed speaker. I’ll place it on the wall as high as I can go to see if it doesn’t interfere with the laser beam. Then, I’ll mark that on the wall and see if the measurement - from the top of the speaker to the bottom will work vertically with my setup.


----------



## DesertDog

clipghost said:


> I feel dumb for not understanding what you mean with the cardboard cutout....can we explain it like I am 5? How would the cardboard cover be used? At an angle or flat?


Basically you just use some cardboard to act as the speaker or whatever you're doing when trying to take measurements for your spacing and to see if they block the light from the PJ. Easier than trying to move the real item since they're almost heavier and harder to move.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> Not a dumb question at all. As I see it - I’ll cut out from a cardboard box the length and width of my proposed speaker. I’ll place it on the wall as high as I can go to see if it doesn’t interfere with the laser beam. Then, I’ll mark that on the wall and see if the measurement - from the top of the speaker to the bottom will work vertically with my setup.





DesertDog said:


> Basically you just use some cardboard to act as the speaker or whatever you're doing when trying to take measurements for your spacing and to see if they block the light from the PJ. Easier than trying to move the real item since they're almost heavier and harder to move.


Got it, so it is more so 2 pieces of cardboard. One for height and one for depth?


----------



## Ricoflashback

clipghost said:


> Got it, so it is more so 2 pieces of cardboard. One for height and one for depth?


One piece of cardboard should work. Then, just mark that spot and measure down. Remember - most center speakers have some room on the bottom before the actual speaker itself. So if the center speaker is an inch or two below the top of your projector - the sound should still be fine. I hope I haven’t confused you.


----------



## Brajesh

Formovie Theater captured @kraine's list of best of 2022 UST's (scroll down for English).

@kraine, you mentioned optics on AWOL 3500 being better than 2500. Are you planning a review, and if so, how did it fare?


----------



## Ricoflashback

I measured for a matching Focal Chora 826-D center. No go. Looks like I’ll try a phantom center. The only other option would be a slim speaker like a Paradigm Millenia LP XL. Not matching but a potential solution as I’m most concerned with dialog. I’d love for the GT1 to be able to be used as a center speaker but that isn’t possible. That should be an option for all UST projectors, IMHO.


----------



## clipghost

Ricoflashback said:


> I measured for a matching Focal Chora 826-D center. No go. Looks like I’ll try a phantom center. The only other option would be a slim speaker like a Paradigm Millenia LP XL. Not matching but a potential solution as I’m most concerned with dialog. I’d love for the GT1 to be able to be used as a center speaker but that isn’t possible. That should be an option for all UST projectors, IMHO.


What about an in wall speaker? I am considering that


----------



## ramvignesh

Ricoflashback said:


> One piece of cardboard should work. Then, just mark that spot and measure down. Remember - most center speakers have some room on the bottom before the actual speaker itself. So if the center speaker is an inch or two below the top of your projector - the sound should still be fine. I hope I haven’t confused you.


I believe there should be no object in front of center speaker even if its above or below the speaker. Also, the center speaker, if placed on furniture, the speaker has to be aligned flush with the front edge to eliminate lobing of the sound waves which can negatively impact clarity and dynamics.


----------



## ramvignesh

Ricoflashback said:


> I measured for a matching Focal Chora 826-D center. No go. Looks like I’ll try a phantom center. The only other option would be a slim speaker like a Paradigm Millenia LP XL. Not matching but a potential solution as I’m most concerned with dialog. I’d love for the GT1 to be able to be used as a center speaker but that isn’t possible. That should be an option for all UST projectors, IMHO.


How about mounting the projector on the ceiling? Accessories like in below link would be useful to mount on ceiling or on the wall.








Amazon.com: Projector Mount, Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Wall Mount, Ceiling Projector Mount,Universal Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Stand Adjustable,Projector Mounting Bracket,Wall Projector Mount : Electronics


Buy Projector Mount, Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Wall Mount, Ceiling Projector Mount,Universal Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Stand Adjustable,Projector Mounting Bracket,Wall Projector Mount: Projector - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## ramvignesh

Projector option to ceiling mount


----------



## Ricoflashback

ramvignesh said:


> How about mounting the projector on the ceiling? Accessories like in below link would be useful to mount on ceiling or on the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Projector Mount, Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Wall Mount, Ceiling Projector Mount,Universal Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Stand Adjustable,Projector Mounting Bracket,Wall Projector Mount : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy Projector Mount, Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Wall Mount, Ceiling Projector Mount,Universal Projector Ceiling Mount, Projector Stand Adjustable,Projector Mounting Bracket,Wall Projector Mount: Projector - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Aesthetics wise, it wouldn’t work. I thought m0j0 or someone else had all mounted, on wall or in wall speakers. They were very happy with the sleek look but better sound from standalone towers and a conventional center speaker. Although, there is an interesting thread about the use of a phantom center, especially if you can’t get your center channel up to ear level. With my previous dedicated theater. I was able to line up the top of my tower L/R speakers with the top of my center channel. That was the best soundstage I’ve ever had.


----------



## Mrkillamilla

Ricoflashback said:


> I'm partial to the latest and greatest International Theater T1 as it still has the ease of the Android operating system (regardless whether you use it to stream or not - - which I never do) and it will be supported better than the original Chinese T1. Read the original T1 thread to see what I mean. The colors and black levels on the GT1 (Global Theater T1) are flat out phenomenal.


Awesome, thank you!


gymnos said:


> What do you mean with that? I have noticed some kind of reddish tint in faces, skin... (Global version and Cinema preset)
> 
> The Google Docs guide for setting up this thing stays that it is a firmware update for September, mine is on July firmware version and no update available.


Well at least in the global version, there is the CMS to lower the red levels right? for Chinese T1, you can't adjust the colors.


----------



## RTS01

Hi guys 👋. Having a pretty tough time setting up my Formovie theater without having 2-3 inches of the 120" image on the ceiling. The problem is I have the projector sitting on top of a Klipsch RP-504c. So I have a few questions if anyone could help me out.

Has anyone tried ceiling mounting one of these? Are there any drawbacks in terms of cooling or image quality? 

I have been trying to steer away from digital keystone correction to preserve image quality and focus. Is it worth it to keystone the image vs ceiling mounting to make the image fit?


----------



## RTS01

RTS01 said:


> Hi guys 👋. Having a pretty tough time setting up my Formovie theater without having 2-3 inches of the 120" image on the ceiling. The problem is I have the projector sitting on top of a Klipsch RP-504c. So I have a few questions if anyone could help me out.
> 
> Has anyone tried ceiling mounting one of these? Are there any drawbacks in terms of cooling or image quality?
> 
> I have been trying to steer away from digital keystone correction to preserve image quality and focus. Is it worth it to keystone the image vs ceiling mounting to make the image fit?


I also just realized. My UST ALR screen would be pointless if I ceiling mount.


----------



## RickMes

RTS01 said:


> I also just realized. My UST ALR screen would be pointless if I ceiling mount.


If it is a CLR, just turn it upside down.


----------



## Rafic8

Hi guys 
Just ordered t1 global plus 120" vivid storm alr screen
Can please someone adress me for calibration for this combo? ( I know someone attached this somewere just can't find it...) 
Apriciat your help
Rafi


----------



## oplop

Rafic8 said:


> Hi guys
> Just ordered t1 global plus 120" vivid storm alr screen
> Can please someone adress me for calibration for this combo? ( I know someone attached this somewere just can't find it...)
> Apriciat your help
> Rafi


This is a good starting point (scroll down a bit): Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


----------



## madmax777

RickMes said:


> If it is a CLR, just turn it upside down.


the meaning of the screen is lost. the screen will not help from the light of the lamps.


----------



## milkb1

Hey guys, I have had my Formovie Theater for about 4 weeks now. love it. But I was wondering if someone could explain the MEMC. Is it worth having it turned on? is only good for sports? live tv? or is it just a waste and turn it off?


----------



## RickMes

milkb1 said:


> Hey guys, I have had my Formovie Theater for about 4 weeks now. love it. But I was wondering if someone could explain the MEMC. Is it worth having it turned on? is only good for sports? live tv? or is it just a waste and turn it off?


I turn it off because I don't like the soap opera 60 frame effect but specially because I notice some artifacts around fast moving objects.
I've actually been meaning to ask around here if this is normal or if my unit can have some kind of problem with it's MEMC processor. Anyone?


----------



## mclovinrose

luisalbertokid said:


> Plex has problems with TrueHD for quite some time. I don't even try it anymore, whenever the audio is TrueHD I use Emby which works great.


It's odd. Shield pro has issues with Plex. Then I use Plex on just the Formovie and it works great. Picture looks better too. All other apps play better on Shield Pro. So I decided to only use Plex on Formovie UI and for all other apps Shield Pro. Annoying this has to be done.


----------



## ProjectionHead

New review of the Theater published by Chris Eberle of Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity:








Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com


New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...




hometheaterhifi.com


----------



## 3sprit

Baulte said:


> It has 4 lights on the front when I try and turn it on.


Your microphone is off.
The switch is on the right.


----------



## 3sprit

Where can I find the explanation of all the menu items?
Someone had posted the manual of an Android TV device but I can't find it in all the pages of the thread.


----------



## Brajesh

Good review on Secrets, but there's no HDR10+ as listed on Theater.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Brajesh said:


> Good review on Secrets, but there's no HDR10+ as listed on Theater.


I've been really pressing Formovie to join the conversation here on AVS and address this specifically (among other things). I believe we may be seeing their product manager here soon.


----------



## ProFragger

ProjectionHead said:


> I've been really pressing Formovie to join the conversation here on AVS and address this specifically (among other things). I believe we may be seeing their product manager here soon.


Thanks Brian - Could they represent the T1 as well? The Chinese version? We haven't received an update since Feb/March earlier in the year. Have they abandoned that version? Do you guys get regular updates on the Theater (Global)? Thanks again.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ProFragger said:


> Thanks Brian - Could they represent the T1 as well? The Chinese version? We haven't received an update since Feb/March earlier in the year. Have they abandoned that version? Do you guys get regular updates on the Theater (Global)? Thanks again.


I can't speak on their behalf of what they will/won't represent, but I've advised that it's a good idea to represent their entire brand/line. I speak with them frequently, but am bound by an NDA and am only allowed to say what I'm allowed to say in regards to updates and other items.


----------



## DesertDog

Possible good news on the bright and dark spots. I did a factory reset on Saturday and so far I haven't been able to get it to happen again. I have one more test I want to try tomorrow that replicates part of my day when it kept happening. @ProjectionHead I'm still going to send you a write-up on it to pass along. I've been trying to collect more info on it. I do have pictures and video of it though to show them.


----------



## ProFragger

ProjectionHead said:


> I can't speak on their behalf of what they will/won't represent, but I've advised that it's a good idea to represent their entire brand/line. I speak with them frequently, but am bound by an NDA and am only allowed to say what I'm allowed to say in regards to updates and other items.


Makes sense Brian, and thanks for trying to voice their customers. About the updates/NDA, I am not asking if they are teeing up any updates in the future, just asking if the Theater (Global version) gets updates regularly since launch.

I am not sure of the specifics of your NDA, but is it fair game to ask them and share if they have indeed abandoned the T1?

Thanks again.


----------



## mirzank

Brajesh said:


> Good review on Secrets, but there's no HDR10+ as listed on Theater.


where is this review ? Interested to read / watch it.
Also the specs say it has hdr10+ so how do people figure it doesn’t have it? Is there some way to test if it has it ?


----------



## MarcusD777

DesertDog said:


> Possible good news on the bright and dark spots. I did a factory reset on Saturday and so far I haven't been able to get it to happen again. I have one more test I want to try tomorrow that replicates part of my day when it kept happening. @ProjectionHead I'm still going to send you a write-up on it to pass along. I've been trying to collect more info on it. I do have pictures and video of it though to show them.


Thanks for the update. I may try a factory reset this week as I’m having this issue fairly often with the standard profile and especially with YouTube. Haven’t had the issue as of yet with hdr or dv movies/games. It resolves by changing to another preset than back again.


----------



## oplop

radstheater said:


> Like others, I think I'm having issues with the HDMI handshake.
> 
> I'm having issued using hdmi eARC with a 2.1 cable. I've tried 3 cables, all of which work on other setups.
> 
> When I have nothing plugged in to the projector everything works fine. Unfortunately, when I have everything hooked up with my surround sound via the eARC, I get glitches either the projector crashing or audio keeps cutting in and out.
> 
> I can get around this by unplugging the HDMI cable while the projector is playing and plugging it back in, but the problems happen next time I restart the projector. Obviously, this is not a viable solution.
> 
> Any help?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This option is grayed out for me. Do you know what other setting I must have to change?


I had the same issue with this projector connected to a Denon AVR via eARC. It finally went away when I changed the digital audio format from "Auto" to "Bypass".


----------



## Brajesh

mirzank said:


> where is this review ? Interested to read / watch it.
> Also the specs say it has hdr10+ so how do people figure it doesn’t have it? Is there some way to test if it has it ?


Scroll up to @ProjectionHead’s post . Given HDR10+ has no licensing fees involved, I’d assume it would be an easy add.


----------



## brokenconduit

Anyone with Vividstorm Motorized ALR Screen, perforated or regular? Pros/cons? Would love to hear some thoughts on this by owners of the Formovie. Thanks!


----------



## gymnos

ProjectionHead said:


> I've been really pressing Formovie to join the conversation here on AVS and address this specifically (among other things). I believe we may be seeing their product manager here soon.


IMHO this PJ needs another firmware to solve reddish tint and multichannel audio output via SPDIF.

And USB ports just support FAT32 format, which make it useless...


----------



## RickMes

Dolby Vision and HDR Content in HBO looks very washed out most of the time and I think it is because of bad mastering. Game of Thrones for instance looks great whereas House of Dragons and Dune, just to name a few, are basically unwatchable.
I am streaming HBO Max from my shield, but Disney, Netflix and Amazon Prime content look amazing.
.
Anyone else noticed this? Should.i try to stream HBO Max directly from the Theater OS?


----------



## Dizzy49

mirzank said:


> While I don’t regret spending the 3k’ish on the projector, as a customer I would expect though that the company would work on fixing these “minor” issues. I currently have two Units, but I wouldn’t recommend this projector to other people that always ask me for recommendations. It may seem like a minor thing that wifi or remote doesn’t work, but it’s actually quite painful. For example if my wife is there and I’m not and the remote doesn’t work, she has no idea how to get it up and running. If the projector image was slightly less good, she wouldn’t even notice, but the fact that remote doesn’t work she does notice. So for a typical consumer arguably these minor issues are actually quite major and core to the functioning of the pj. The fact that formovie is not bothering with these fixes that should be quite easy (unless they’ve used some super sub par hardware for Bluetooth and wifi and this is a hardware issue), tells me in the future I wouldn’t take anything they release seriously and would purchase a more well known brand. E.g the Epson ls800 is generally in the same league (yes I realise it’s single laser), and backed by a more serious name.


I disagree. With as much streaming content (via home servers or Netflix, Hulu, etc) Wifi is a very big deal. Nearly 100% of what we watch requires wifi, so it would be a complete deal breaker for me.


----------



## clipghost

Dizzy49 said:


> I disagree. With as much streaming content (via home servers or Netflix, Hulu, etc) Wifi is a very big deal. Nearly 100% of what we watch requires wifi, so it would be a complete deal breaker for me.


True but the remote and focus issues are bigger in most peoples yes as you can hardwire for internet if needed or stream from another device.


----------



## kraine

The Formovie Theater is not HDR-10+ compatible, well to be precise it reads HDR-10+ sources in HDR.


----------



## mirzank

kraine said:


> The Formovie Theater is not HDR-10+ compatible, well to be precise it reads HDR-10+ sources in HDR.


do you think that’s a software thing or hardware ? I think someone said hdr 10+ doesn’t have a license fee, so why wouldn’t formovie implement hdr 10+ if it’s already got hardware for it ?
Do you know if this is something they plan to enable/implement ?


----------



## mirzank

kraine said:


> The Formovie Theater is not HDR-10+ compatible, well to be precise it reads HDR-10+ sources in HDR.


This is what the website says. Unles HDR 10+ "decoding" means it can read hdr 10+ but doesnt have capability to use it? similar to how TV's used to be "1080p ready" or something, which only meant they read 1080p source but the actual panel was 720p resolution?










The specs:


----------



## gymnos

I don´t expect Formovie to solve any of the issues, if they launch another firmware update we will be very lucky.

Anyway, the prestige of the brand is on their hands.

A product with this price deserves better support.


----------



## milkb1

brokenconduit said:


> Anyone with Vividstorm Motorized ALR Screen, perforated or regular? Pros/cons? Would love to hear some thoughts on this by owners of the Formovie. Thanks!


I have the Vividstorm Motorized ALR Screen-Perforated. I have it mounted to the wall with their wall brackets. I love the screen. Love the fact that I don't have to have a big ass screen on my wall 24/7 because I don't have my setup in a dedicated movie room. Still have a great picture with the lights on or daylight coming in from windows. I could have done without the perforate. its only purpose is if you have a center speaker, you can put it behind the screen and my center speaker is to big to fit back there. So I really could have done without.


----------



## iitywygms

DesertDog said:


> I had a weird issue last night. I was watching a show and it cut from a dark scene to a beach scene and I got this for a picture:
> View attachment 3354363
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what caused this to happen. It's looks like it's with the GT1's processing. First thing I did was dust the lens since that's usually the culprit but no luck. When I opened the Picture settings the first thing I tried fixed it. I switched the mode from movie to sports and the picture cleared up immediately. Switching back to movie resulted in a clean pictures still. The weird blotting did not come back.
> 
> I think this has happened a couple times before to me too. When I first got it I rewatched a couple old episodes of Stargate Atlantis and it had some weird darker patches around too. At the time I thought it was a source issue since it was an older show and not the greatest copy of it. But now I'm thinking it was this same issue.
> 
> Has anyone else ran into this? Any ideas on what's causing it and how to prevent?


I wanted to add that I have also seen this. Maybe 3-4 times in the last month since installing the projector. I was browsing this forum to see if it was just me. It clears up if I switch inputs, and I cant find anyway to make it happen. It just happens. The strange white blotches are what I see.


----------



## iitywygms

dimox said:


> Hello! Really nice hack! What is the minimum screen size you can get with this slide system?


I slid the projector in and without measuring I would guess you could go down to 80 inches.
The problem is that the vents on the side will be covered. If anyone is wondering, the max size is 123 inches, which is what mine is at. Anymore than that and the projector would have to overhang the shelf.


----------



## Joered101

Does no one seriously not have any issues with the cyan tone on this projector?? It comes out so green in certain hues, and it is not posisble to calibrate it to normal... srieously someone else must notice this... It's really doing my head in. Please can anyone shed light on this and if they've found the same?


----------



## Joered101

iitywygms said:


> I wanted to add that I have also seen this. Maybe 3-4 times in the last month since installing the projector. I was browsing this forum to see if it was just me. It clears up if I switch inputs, and I cant find anyway to make it happen. It just happens. The strange white blotches are what I see.
> View attachment 3360991


Yeah this is what I explaiend to someone before. Exact same thing happened to me i have done thorough testing and the only video preset mode it DOESN'T happen in, is game mode... very strange but I ended up calibrating that mode as my movie watching mode to avoid this happening again. It also adds weird moving grain, and blows highlights out when the same phenomenon is happening, within the blotches... really weird. but was thankful to find it must be software as it has never happened in game mode but still does in any other mode. Sometimes changing modes gets rid of it, but then it slowly appears again. 

Hope that helps?


----------



## brokenconduit

milkb1 said:


> I have the Vividstorm Motorized ALR Screen-Perforated. I have it mounted to the wall with their wall brackets. I love the screen. Love the fact that I don't have to have a big ass screen on my wall 24/7 because I don't have my setup in a dedicated movie room. Still have a great picture with the lights on or daylight coming in from windows. I could have done without the perforate. its only purpose is if you have a center speaker, you can put it behind the screen and my center speaker is to big to fit back there. So I really could have done without.


Got it. Overall what is your thought on the perforated one? Is it worse than the original? Reason I ask is some pictures I see it is see-through. Does light bleed through it? Is it flimsy? Heaven forbid the UST doesn't level perfectly does light go through it? Is it better to have the original to have a bit of "cushioning" 



iitywygms said:


> I wanted to add that I have also seen this. Maybe 3-4 times in the last month since installing the projector. I was browsing this forum to see if it was just me. It clears up if I switch inputs, and I cant find anyway to make it happen. It just happens. The strange white blotches are what I see.
> View attachment 3360991





iitywygms said:


> I slid the projector in and without measuring I would guess you could go down to 80 inches.
> The problem is that the vents on the side will be covered. If anyone is wondering, the max size is 123 inches, which is what mine is at. Anymore than that and the projector would have to overhang the shelf.


Oh I really like the look of your cabinet. May I ask, how did you go about making a slider for the projector? Can you link the materials you used and what sliding mechanism? I want to know the distance you are coming out to make it reach 120". Thank you so much!


----------



## MRJAZZZ

iitywygms said:


> I wanted to add that I have also seen this. Maybe 3-4 times in the last month since installing the projector. I was browsing this forum to see if it was just me. It clears up if I switch inputs, and I cant find anyway to make it happen. It just happens. The strange white blotches are what I see.
> View attachment 3360991


I returned mine for this issue ( also was prone to dust blobs). Apparently some video processing issues with a few of these units. I believe it's heat related as I would only notice this after the projector had been on for awhile 
( one hour or so). As soon as you change to another preset it would go away, only to return again in a period of time....30 minutes or so.
Was very frustrating......otherwise a great UST.


----------



## clipghost

MRJAZZZ said:


> I returned mine for this issue ( also was prone to dust blobs). Apparently some video processing issues with a few of these units. I believe it's heat related as I would only notice this after the projector had been on for awhile
> ( one hour or so). As soon as you change to another preset it would go away, only to return again in a period of time....30 minutes or so.
> Was very frustrating......otherwise a great UST.


Did you only try with one unit or this happened with replacement unit as well? P.S. What you going with next?


----------



## 3sprit

gymnos said:


> I don´t expect Formovie to solve any of the issues, if they launch another firmware update we will be very lucky.
> 
> Anyway, the prestige of the brand is on their hands.
> 
> A product with this price deserves better support.


I have no problems with tint, wifi and optical output (which I use in stereo).
I don't even have remote problems.
I have projector "noise" and focus issues.


----------



## 3sprit

3sprit said:


> Where can I find the explanation of all the menu items?
> Someone had posted the manual of an Android TV device but I can't find it in all the pages of the thread.


👆🤔🤷‍♂️


----------



## DesertDog

iitywygms said:


> I wanted to add that I have also seen this. Maybe 3-4 times in the last month since installing the projector. I was browsing this forum to see if it was just me. It clears up if I switch inputs, and I cant find anyway to make it happen. It just happens. The strange white blotches are what I see.
> View attachment 3360991


Try doing a factory rest. Another user and myself have both had luck with it so far. I'm going to be doing some more testing on it over the weekend.


----------



## iitywygms

DesertDog said:


> Try doing a factory rest. Another user and myself have both had luck with it so far. I'm going to be doing some more testing on it over the weekend.


It has not done it in for maybe a week now. And this is my main tv, in the living room. It is on sometimes all day. At least a few hours everyday.
If this projector is going to fail after many hours of use, I'm sure I will be one of the first to get there. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## mirzank

gymnos said:


> I don´t expect Formovie to solve any of the issues, if they launch another firmware update we will be very lucky.
> 
> Anyway, the prestige of the brand is on their hands.
> 
> A product with this price deserves better support.


they initially seemed responsive to the original t1 owners and issued some firmware fixes and were quite transparent with plans so I really expected a lot more from them for the global version.

agree something this pricy deserves better support. The few times I’ve now gotten In touch with support I’ve received generic non helpful responses.

If they just want to sell some units and move on to the next one, and then rope in a few new customers then their strategy for no customer support or firmware updates is ok, but they’ll just be another crappy Chinese brand in the long term.

If they actually want to build a brand, with a loyal following, repeat customers and want to compete with the well known brands like Epson Samsung etc then they need to do better. The cost of a few engineers to work on improvements is a small incremental investment compared to the benefit they can get.


----------



## iitywygms

brokenconduit said:


> Oh I really like the look of your cabinet. May I ask, how did you go about making a slider for the projector? Can you link the materials you used and what sliding mechanism? I want to know the distance you are coming out to make it reach 120". Thank you so much!


See this link.





I basically followed exactly what the youtuber did. He provides links to all materials in the comment section.


----------



## JimGoesElectric

So... the strangest thing. I've had my Formovie Android International version for about 60 days now. Loving it! But last night without warning it shut down. After pulling the plug and giving it a few minutes to reset, I plugged it back in and the Formovie logo lights up as expected (I understand this to mean that the OS is loading) but it never shuts off and there is no video. The lasers don't fire, "it's dead Jim". Does anyone know how to do a hard factory reset without a projection to see the menus? There is no indication that it's even alive with the exception of that white Formovie logo on the front.


----------



## brokenconduit

iitywygms said:


> See this link.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I basically followed exactly what the youtuber did. He provides links to all materials in the comment section.


I see. Did you buy those exact brackets he links? Or smaller/larger different brand? Also the shelf is the same as his size? What did you do to make the shelf, Home Depot or custom?


----------



## earlspinkipad

Does anybody know the dlp chip model? (dlp470tp, dlp470te, or other)
Thanks.


----------



## iitywygms

brokenconduit said:


> I see. Did you buy those exact brackets he links? Or smaller/larger different brand? Also the shelf is the same as his size? What did you do to make the shelf, Home Depot or custom?


I used the shelf that comes with the IKEA cabinet. I don't know why the person who made that video did a custom shelf. I used everything that he linked in his comment sections. Nothing different.


----------



## brokenconduit

iitywygms said:


> I used the shelf that comes with the IKEA cabinet. I don't know why the person who made that video did a custom shelf. I used everything that he linked in his comment sections. Nothing different.


Huh, interesting. And it works perfectly for the 120" screen distance? 

May I ask just so I can learn, that shelf, do you drill the brackets into it so it is stable on it? Or is it just laying on the brackets?


----------



## MarcusD777

DesertDog said:


> Try doing a factory rest. Another user and myself have both had luck with it so far. I'm going to be doing some more testing on it over the weekend.


I have been in touch with DesertDog about this and can confirm on my end (as of now) a factory reset has resolved this issue for the past 2 days of good usage. Based on one of the previous posts mentioning this issue is not apparent in game mode. I wonder if it has something to do with the local contrast control feature as this gets disabled (doesn’t grey out but will not activate when switching between off, low, middle and high) when you enable the game mode toggle switch on any picture preset. Just a thought…


----------



## iitywygms

brokenconduit said:


> Huh, interesting. And it works perfectly for the 120" screen distance?
> 
> May I ask just so I can learn, that shelf, do you drill the brackets into it so it is stable on it? Or is it just laying on the brackets?


I fastned the shelf to the sliders. They are 13 inch sliders. Yes, at max extension it fills a 123 inch screen. You can pm me if you need more details.


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> Does no one seriously not have any issues with the cyan tone on this projector?? It comes out so green in certain hues, and it is not posisble to calibrate it to normal... srieously someone else must notice this... It's really doing my head in. Please can anyone shed light on this and if they've found the same?


Looks pretty good to me!


----------



## ramvignesh

My theater model is hanging whenever a video is played in Amazon prime app.
It even got hanged on the new avatar trailer on YouTube app. Attached picture shows the frozen image with awkward colors and then the projector restarts after 10 seconds.
I even tried reinstalling the app.
Anyone experienced similar issue?


----------



## gymnos

mirzank said:


> they initially seemed responsive to the original t1 owners and issued some firmware fixes and were quite transparent with plans so I really expected a lot more from them for the global version.
> 
> agree something this pricy deserves better support. The few times I’ve now gotten In touch with support I’ve received generic non helpful responses.
> 
> If they just want to sell some units and move on to the next one, and then rope in a few new customers then their strategy for no customer support or firmware updates is ok, but they’ll just be another crappy Chinese brand in the long term.
> 
> If they actually want to build a brand, with a loyal following, repeat customers and want to compete with the well known brands like Epson Samsung etc then they need to do better. The cost of a few engineers to work on improvements is a small incremental investment compared to the benefit they can get.


Yes, I hope that @Formovie Official follows this thread and get our feedback.

Black Friday is here and many people are waiting to pull the trigger...



MarcusD777 said:


> I have been in touch with DesertDog about this and can confirm on my end (as of now) a factory reset has resolved this issue for the past 2 days of good usage. Based on one of the previous posts mentioning this issue is not apparent in game mode. I wonder if it has something to do with the local contrast control feature as this gets disabled (doesn’t grey out but will not activate when switching between off, low, middle and high) when you enable the game mode toggle switch on any picture preset. Just a thought…


I always do a factory reset after a firmware update with all my devices in order to avoid that kind of issues, especially with Android as the operating system.

Anyway, how many firmware updates has Formovie launched for this PJ?


----------



## brokenconduit

iitywygms said:


> I fastned the shelf to the sliders. They are 13 inch sliders. Yes, at max extension it fills a 123 inch screen. You can pm me if you need more details.


Will PM!


----------



## dimox

iitywygms said:


> I slid the projector in and without measuring I would guess you could go down to 80 inches.
> The problem is that the vents on the side will be covered. If anyone is wondering, the max size is 123 inches, which is what mine is at. Anymore than that and the projector would have to overhang the shelf.












Thank you very much!
I built exactly the same unit and played with the trapeze so the fan can work without problem.
Is there a way to use use both my Sonos beam and the Formovie theater sound system together?


----------



## dami1337

Center speaker issue related question.

If the center is not fitting by only 5-10cm, can anything be done with moving the T1 further away and zooming in?

Or any other ideas how to gain space between T1 and screen?

One idea I found already is to put the screen x cm away from the wall (and put some absorption material behind it) but it is not enough


----------



## brokenconduit

dimox said:


> View attachment 3361538
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!
> I built exactly the same unit and played with the trapeze so the fan can work without problem.
> Is there a way to use use both my Sonos beam and the Formovie theater sound system together?


Looks good! How did you go about getting the brackets in? Easy/any tips before I embark on this journey?

Also side question, do you think I could fit a center speaker (let's say 10" high) right at the edge of the Besta cabinet the way you have it set up extended, or would the laser get in the way? Trying to see something for my setup. I would appreciate any input! Feel free to PM.


----------



## iitywygms

I got to say after having this projector for one month. For a chinese-made projector with all its small quirks and limited support, The picture from this thing is just amazing. I went from a 55-in roku TV to this. The colors are better, even the blacks seem better. Watching Hi-Rez movies in 4K is a complete joy.
I hope the support and updates match the picture quality.


----------



## madmax777

tell me how to determine what quality my screen is? I didn't read the forums before buying, I bought it quickly. now there is a question, did they really send me a screen with the stated parameters? the seller claims my screen:

*OVERVIEW*
1. Product name:UST CLR ALR Electric Floor Rising Ceiling/Ambient light rejecting projector screen for ultra short throw ust projector laser tv

*2. Screen Material: True UST ALR 98% with 0.6 gain, 170 degree viewing angle*

3.Includes USB rechargeable IR & RF remotes control and 12V wireless projector trigger

4. Fully 4K/8K UHD capable, Active 3D compatible

5.Safety feature: Infrared anti-pinch feature automatically stops screen from retracting into housing

6.Quiet, high-torque tubular motor: Durable and smooth running

7.Certifications: ROHS, REACH, CE - 2014/53/EU

8.Tab-tension design helps maintain a flat ripple-free projection surface

9. Designed for Ultra short throw projector/Laser tv projector

10.Customized requirements are acceptable

11. 5-year limited manufacturer’s warranty

is this a good screen?

only this is written on the panel


----------



## InvincibleRider

Hello friends, new owner of Formovie Theater here. What I observed is that if I connect my Onkyo receiver as source,which has Fire stick connected to it, to the HDMI3 eARC input to FT, every few minutes, the input refreshes and the video on prime tv or Netflix pauses and returns to home screen of the fire stick. I am observing this only with hdmi3 port. Anu suggestions?


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> Looks pretty good to me!


Hey Dave thanks for your response. I can see your cyan only goes towards more blue than green so imagine you definitely don’t have same issue. Is that in 709? Or 2020?
I know it’a a lot to ask but it’s just driving me mad…. Like cyan skies in movies look just weird…. So I see it a lot.
Would you share your settings for the above projector? So I can compare?
Would jaut need to see white balance, RGB and the colour settings of cyan and blue, you don’t need to share the others.
To see if I can fix it?

thanks so much again for the response. Hope you can help!


----------



## JackB

InvincibleRider said:


> Hello friends, new owner of Formovie Theater here. What I observed is that if I connect my Onkyo receiver as source,which has Fire stick connected to it, to the HDMI3 eARC input to FT, every few minutes, the input refreshes and the video on prime tv or Netflix pauses and returns to home screen of the fire stick. I am observing this only with hdmi3 port. Anu suggestions?


I think mine does the same thing. I don't remember the source but the picture goes black, the lights on the front go on twice, green once, blue once I think, and then the picture comes back. Repeats itself a few times minutes later and then seems to stop. I just switched to HDMI2 and will see if it keeps up. My sources are Directv, Roku Ultra, and Firestick 4K.


----------



## iitywygms

Can anyone clarify how the power button works on this?
When using a universal remote for blutooth, (sofabaton) hitting the power button I get different results but never the same.

Somtimes it will ask for confirmation that I want to power off.
Sometimes it just powers off.

When it powers on.
Sometimes it is still on the last used input. (HDMI 3)
Other times its at the home menu and I have to switch the input back to HDMI 3.

Is there a standby mode and a power off mode?
Am I missing something?

I tried asking Formovie support but all they say is take pictures. Of what I dont know. :|
Thanks.


----------



## Cmawg

I've been using a Shield Pro on HDMI1 with HDMI3 eARC going to a Sonos Arc. The Shield is configured for HDMI-CEC and powering it on or off seems to only put the Formovie into a standby/sleep mode rather than a full power down. Haven't ever seen a prompt for a power down in that configuration, it just wakes it up or puts it to sleep, but also hasn't lost the source and tried to start up again with the built in android interface. Wonder if you might get anywhere setting the power control to the receiver and have it drive the sequence through CEC... of course that won't help if you want to use it without the projector.


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> Hey Dave thanks for your response. I can see your cyan only goes towards more blue than green so imagine you definitely don’t have same issue. Is that in 709? Or 2020?
> I know it’a a lot to ask but it’s just driving me mad…. Like cyan skies in movies look just weird…. So I see it a lot.
> Would you share your settings for the above projector? So I can compare?
> Would jaut need to see white balance, RGB and the colour settings of cyan and blue, you don’t need to share the others.
> To see if I can fix it?
> 
> thanks so much again for the response. Hope you can help!


Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. 

Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie?


----------



## ProjectionHead

Alrighty people, it looks like my friends at @Formovie Official will be joining us here in this thread this week.

They have a LOT of messages to read and will start addressing some of the questions and concerns, make announcements and participate in the community.

Please don’t bombard and overwhelm them right away; give them a chance to catch up a bit so that they can enthusiastically join us.

_“You win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar” - Some Person_


----------



## Evanwashere

Has anyone seen any direct comparisons of the Formovie Theater against the Epson LS800? I am stuck between choosing the Epson's brightness and the shorter distance required against the amazing colors and Dolby Vision compatibility of the Formovie.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Evanwashere said:


> Has anyone seen any direct comparisons of the Formovie Theater against the Epson LS800? I am stuck between choosing the Epson's brightness and the shorter distance required against the amazing colors and Dolby Vision compatibility of the Formovie.


Brian at projectorscreen.com is probably your best resource in comparing the two projectors. Otherwise, you can search on the web but I'm not sure a direct "head to head" comparison has been made.


----------



## ProjectionHead

New Formovie Theater review by Chris Majestic:


----------



## ProjectionHead

Formovie Theater Express rolling in and right back out today from our NJ location...choo-choo:


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> New Formovie Theater review by Chris Majestic:


Chris does a nice job, as always, but I disagree with the "out of the box" description of HDR and DV content. Way too dark for me. And I don't think the tone mapping is fabulous with HDR & DV. Just a personal opinion and experience. I know there are workarounds like the often mentioned HD Fury Vertex II but that's a lot of work, IMHO, and expensive. Plus - outside of JVC, I don't think any projector has the internal tone mapping to adequately display this content. And, you'd have to have a black velvet, Elvis theater room to truly enjoy. Once any ambient light is introduced - you lose a lot of that advantage.

I've been perfectly satisfied with the rich colors and black levels of standard SDR. Your mileage may vary and if you like the HDR and DV picture quality, by all means, continue enjoying. Still the best bang for the buck in UST PJ's regardless of the quirks and issues mentioned throughout this thread.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Chris does a nice job, as always, but I disagree with the "out of the box" description of HDR and DV content. Way too dark for me. And I don't think the tone mapping is fabulous with HDR & DV. Just a personal opinion and experience. I know there are workarounds like the often mentioned HD Fury Vertex II but that's a lot of work, IMHO, and expensive. Plus - outside of JVC, I don't think any projector has the internal tone mapping to adequately display this content. And, you'd have to have a black velvet, Elvis theater room to truly enjoy. Once any ambient light is introduced - you lose a lot of that advantage.
> 
> I've been perfectly satisfied with the rich colors and black levels of standard SDR. Your mileage may vary and if you like the HDR and DV picture quality, by all means, continue enjoying. Still the best bang for the buck in UST PJ's regardless of the quirks and issues mentioned throughout this thread.


I'll be trying the EZCOO LLDV solution later today or tomorrow on the Formovie. I'll report on my findings.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Alrighty people, it looks like my friends at @Formovie Official will be joining us here in this thread this week.
> 
> They have a LOT of messages to read and will start addressing some of the questions and concerns, make announcements and participate in the community.
> 
> Please don’t bombard and overwhelm them right away; give them a chance to catch up a bit so that they can enthusiastically join us.
> 
> _“You win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar” - Some Person_


@ProjectionHead thanks so much on your efforts to organize this and get them on here ! Should be overall great For the consumer AND for them to hear directly from the customer.

just one suggestion to make sure we don’t flood them with similar messages: I think you said you’ve already told them about common issues like the remote losing connection and wifi not connecting on start. Obviously there are some other common issues as well. maybe you could get them a bit organised and have them post their response to the various issues and an update/acknowledgment/request for more info such as logs. I’ve been following this thread for a while and majority of the issues are the same issues everyone is having, if they can proactively address these when they join they can avoid alot of repeat messages.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> @ProjectionHead thanks so much on your efforts to organize this and get them on here ! Should be overall great For the consumer AND for them to hear directly from the customer.
> 
> just one suggestion to make sure we don’t flood them with similar messages: I think you said you’ve already told them about common issues like the remote losing connection and wifi not connecting on start. Obviously there are some other common issues as well. maybe you could get them a bit organised and have them post their response to the various issues and an update/acknowledgment/request for more info such as logs. I’ve been following this thread for a while and majority of the issues are the same issues everyone is having, if they can proactively address these when they join they can avoid alot of repeat messages.


Unfortunately I do not have time to compile this list beyond what I've already shared with them and hopefully they will be compiling it themselves as they review all of the messages in this thread.


----------



## mirzank

iitywygms said:


> Can anyone clarify how the power button works on this?
> When using a universal remote for blutooth, (sofabaton) hitting the power button I get different results but never the same.
> 
> Somtimes it will ask for confirmation that I want to power off.
> Sometimes it just powers off.
> 
> When it powers on.
> Sometimes it is still on the last used input. (HDMI 3)
> Other times its at the home menu and I have to switch the input back to HDMI 3.
> 
> Is there a standby mode and a power off mode?
> Am I missing something?
> 
> I tried asking Formovie support but all they say is take pictures. Of what I dont know. :|
> Thanks.


While I don’t own the sofabaton a few things to help you troubleshoot::

1) I checked their database since I am also looking for a Bluetooth remote, and it seems formovie theatre is not in the database. Which means either you selected another device as a proxy or you learnt the commands from original remote. I think you need to email them to see if they can add the formovie to the database
2) if you just press the power button it puts the pj in standby mode. If you hold it it turns it off completely. I just put mine in standby never off. So it seems if you taught the remote the commands maybe you didn’t properly distinguish between short and long press?
3) hdmi vs home mode. I suspect this has to do with if the device plugged into the hdmi port is on or off. I haven’t figured this out either as I’ve noticed this inconsistent behaviour as well. But I’ve noticed if I use the power button on my appletv someone the pj is on the correct input. So maybe test how this works by leaving your hdmi device on or off


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Unfortunately I do not have time to compile this list beyond what I've already shared with them and hopefully they will be compiling it themselves as they review all of the messages in this thread.


@ProjectionHead Yep totally understand you’re busy, I didn’t mean you should compile the list at all, that would be expecting too much and also very lazy of the rest of us to put it on you. I just meant IF you’re in touch with them to just guide them that when they post a welcome message maybe they should put a list of known issues or something. Totally okay if you’re busy or not in touch with them, we can self organize when they arrive and sort it out.


----------



## iitywygms

mirzank said:


> While I don’t own the sofabaton a few things to help you troubleshoot::
> 
> 1) I checked their database since I am also looking for a Bluetooth remote, and it seems formovie theatre is not in the database. Which means either you selected another device as a proxy or you learnt the commands from original remote. I think you need to email them to see if they can add the formovie to the database
> 2) if you just press the power button it puts the pj in standby mode. If you hold it it turns it off completely. I just put mine in standby never off. So it seems if you taught the remote the commands maybe you didn’t properly distinguish between short and long press?
> 3) hdmi vs home mode. I suspect this has to do with if the device plugged into the hdmi port is on or off. I haven’t figured this out either as I’ve noticed this inconsistent behaviour as well. But I’ve noticed if I use the power button on my appletv someone the pj is on the correct input. So maybe test how this works by leaving your hdmi device on or off


Appreciate the feedback. And you are correct sofabaton does not have formovie in their database. Unfortunately sofabaton can't learn Bluetooth commands. It can only learn IR commands. When setting it up for this projector, I just used the generic Bluetooth and it works for most things. Oddly enough. I think what's happening with the power is that The Bluetooth command sent by the remote is not consistent. Basically a long press sometimes in a short press other times.
BTW. I have used both the X1 and the U1.
The U1 would never sync with the projector.
Your suggestion about the device being powered on makes sense. I'll have to investigate that.
I have emailed sofabaton requesting them to add this unit to their database. But I have not gotten feedback.
The sofabaton has potential. But it's definitely not ready for primetime and it's nowhere near what a harmony remote could do.


----------



## Dennis777

Just got my Formovie projector yesterday. Have the picture on standar. When looking at a black and white picture I had to change the temperature color to cool to get a somewhat black and white picture. Does anyone know how to make the grey scale be more accurate. Thanks


----------



## AFBDA

Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:









Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:









Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?

Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## radstheater

oplop said:


> I had the same issue with this projector connected to a Denon AVR via eARC. It finally went away when I changed the digital audio format from "Auto" to "Bypass".


I just wanted to say thanks! This helped a lot.

I have a Denon AVR also. Via eARC, the audio drops every 15 minutes (for about 1-2 seconds), but was dropping every 1-2 minutes.

Do you have any other settings you think I should try to completely get rid of it? Right now, I have my digital audio format auto to bypass, and my audio settings in my Denon receiver are all default.


----------



## brokenconduit

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Sorry I cannot give you help here but I have to ask out of curiosity, what is your cabinet setup? Is that an Ikea Besta with another cabinet in front? Trying to understand.


----------



## AFBDA

brokenconduit said:


> Sorry I cannot give you help here but I have to ask out of curiosity, what is your cabinet setup? Is that an Ikea Besta with another cabinet in front? Trying to understand.


I considered going the Besta route but couldn’t get it in the size I needed. I’m constrained by the height of my window ledge and I also wanted it to be as shallow as possible. So I had to make these myself (they are plywood carcasses). The idea was that the entire setup would disappear when not in use (except for the Sonos Arc). Sorry that’s probably not what you wanted to hear…


----------



## Dave Harper

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


The Vividstorm floor rising screen isn’t completely pulled tight all around so sometimes you do get some slight distortions near the edges. 

As for the keystone it appears maybe the front of the projector needs to be raised slightly to make the sides plumb and the you may have to pull it out slightly to compensate as this will make the top smaller.


----------



## ProjectionHead

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


It may actually be the screen. It will be hard for you to know for sure unless you project on another fixed frame screen, or even a wall.
If you push the bottom of screen from behind, a bit towards the projector, does it level out?
We’ve seen some Vividstorm screens that weren’t perfectly straight and caused similar issues in the past.


----------



## Fox&304

Changing a bit my setup. Still got a bit of work to do (move down the screen a bit, drilling a hole for cables behind the PJ, a hole in the wall to pass the HDMI, and buy the finishing wood panel for the right side), but I think it'll be pretty nice once done.
60cm depth cabinets are still hard to find.


----------



## noonsa

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Definitely seems to be the screen. Like it's not perfectly rigid or straight. It seems like the bottom is more taut than the top? If you tilt the projector up or down does it help straighten it out?


----------



## Ricoflashback

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


As other posters have suggested - - it could be the Vividstorm screen. Have you tried moving the projector back (increase the picture size) and then keystone it in? I'd suggest trying that and seeing what is acceptable to you, picture wise. Even with the wall screen I have, it takes some time to get the image lined up correctly as any imperfection like the projector not being 100% level or your screen not completely flat on the wall, or even an imperfect wall, will throw the image off, centering wise. Good luck and keep trying.


----------



## AFBDA

Thanks for all the advice so far. My last UST projector (with the same screen) didn't exhibit this behaviour -- can moving the screen around loosen the tension?

I tipped the screen itself slightly forward and backward and I'm able to flip the tapering from the bottom to the top, which suggests both the top and bottom are able to display a square image. (Halfway between these extremes I get tapering at both the top and the bottom.) This is why I was thinking the problem could be with the projector, but it sounds like this is very unlikely. I wonder if the slight tipping of the screen is enough to influence the tension.



Dave Harper said:


> The Vividstorm floor rising screen isn’t completely pulled tight all around so sometimes you do get some slight distortions near the edges.
> 
> As for the keystone it appears maybe the front of the projector needs to be raised slightly to make the sides plumb and the you may have to pull it out slightly to compensate as this will make the top smaller.


I guess one way to test this might be to make the projected image smaller so it's further from the edges. I'll try this tonight.



ProjectionHead said:


> It may actually be the screen. It will be hard for you to know for sure unless you optoject on another fixed frame screen, or even a wall.
> If you push the bottom of screen from behind, a bit towards the projector, does it level out?
> We’ve seen some Vividstorm screens that weren’t perfectly straight and caused similar issues in the past.


In the cases where you've seen this, have you been able to solve it? Is there a way to increase the screen tension?



noonsa said:


> Definitely seems to be the screen. Like it's not perfectly rigid or straight. It seems like the bottom is more taut than the top? If you tilt the projector up or down does it help straighten it out?


I did tilt the projector and I can get it straightened out at the bottom, but this is at the expense of the top.



Ricoflashback said:


> As other posters have suggested - - it could be the Vividstorm screen. Have you tried moving the projector back (increase the picture size) and then keystone it in? I'd suggest trying that and seeing what is acceptable to you, picture wise. Even with the wall screen I have, it takes some time to get the image lined up correctly as any imperfection like the projector not being 100% level or your screen not completely flat on the wall, or even an imperfect wall, will throw the image off, centering wise. Good luck and keep trying.


Thanks for the encouragement. I did notice that I can get the case perfectly level but still have weird distortion which suggests the light engine/lens is not perfectly aligned with the case. This makes is a little infuriating as I cannot use a level to get it objectively flat and straight -- I have to use my eyeballs. I'll try your suggestion, thank you.


----------



## ramvignesh

Ricoflashback said:


> Chris does a nice job, as always, but I disagree with the "out of the box" description of HDR and DV content. Way too dark for me. And I don't think the tone mapping is fabulous with HDR & DV. Just a personal opinion and experience. I know there are workarounds like the often mentioned HD Fury Vertex II but that's a lot of work, IMHO, and expensive. Plus - outside of JVC, I don't think any projector has the internal tone mapping to adequately display this content. And, you'd have to have a black velvet, Elvis theater room to truly enjoy. Once any ambient light is introduced - you lose a lot of that advantage.
> 
> I've been perfectly satisfied with the rich colors and black levels of standard SDR. Your mileage may vary and if you like the HDR and DV picture quality, by all means, continue enjoying. Still the best bang for the buck in UST PJ's regardless of the quirks and issues mentioned throughout this thread.


Yes, I prefer to watch in sdr mode instead of the darker image of dolby vision. It's quite a disappointment. It looks like the dolby vision is real only on the high contrast qled and oled TVs. 
Is there a way to toggle to SDR like picture mode even if it's playing dolby vision content?


----------



## ramvignesh

AFBDA said:


> Hi everyone, I bought the Formovie a week or so ago and I’m having a maddening time aligning the image on my Vividstorm S PRO Floor Screen. I’m finding that the edges of the projected image are curved, but I don’t know what to do in terms of positioning to correct that type of distortion. Here’s a picture of my setup:
> View attachment 3362472
> 
> 
> Given that the distortion is not too easy to see in my photo (and I’m sure my iPhone lens doesn’t help), here’s a slightly exaggerated mockup of what my eye sees:
> View attachment 3362473
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to correct this type of distortion? Did anyone else see this when setting theirs up?
> 
> Another question: I know the objective is to get the picture as close to square as possible by physically moving the projector/screen rather than using digital keystone. Do most people on this forum use zero digital keystone or is it usually required to fine-tune the image?
> 
> Thanks for any help!


Is the screen height at the sides same as at the center? Also, check if the projector (front-back and left-right) and the screen are level.


----------



## clipghost

Fox&304 said:


> View attachment 3362555
> 
> 
> Changing a bit my setup. Still got a bit of work to do (move down the screen a bit, drilling a hole for cables behind the PJ, a hole in the wall to pass the HDMI, and buy the finishing wood panel for the right side), but I think it'll be pretty nice once done.
> 60cm depth cabinets are still hard to find.


Looks nice! What cabinet?


----------



## Ricoflashback

ramvignesh said:


> Yes, I prefer to watch in sdr mode instead of the darker image of dolby vision. It's quite a disappointment. It looks like the dolby vision is real only on the high contrast qled and oled TVs.
> Is there a way to toggle to SDR like picture mode even if it's playing dolby vision content?


The only way I know of doing that is with my Nvidia Shield Pro where I can toggle on/off HDR and DV. But again, too dark for me so I just leave it at SDR for a brighter, punchier picture.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> The only way I know of doing that is with my Nvidia Shield Pro where I can toggle on/off HDR and DV. But again, too dark for me so I just leave it at SDR for a brighter, punchier picture.


Rico, how are you toggling HDR and SDR on the Shield remote? I just checked and I don't see a way.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Rico, how are you toggling HDR and SDR on the Shield remote? I just checked and I don't see a way.


I'm not at home right now but I believe it's in the resolution settings. I just disabled HDR and that took care of everything.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> I'm not at home right now but I believe it's in the resolution settings. I just disabled HDR and that took care of everything.


I’m looking for a real toggle for HDR and SDR. I dont think it’s possible. I’ve read somewhere on posts that the Netflix button can be programmed for some custom ability but I don’t recall the details of that.


----------



## pchannan

@ProjectionHead Is there IP control of the projector. I have a control4 system and was looking at Hisense since there is an IP control driver. However, I would like the better projector.
Thanks in advance


----------



## nautikos521

ACE844 said:


> Lastly goto shield development settings and if none of the above works you can enable the lldv option. It's present in shield experience 9.1.1.


Hello, there. Sorry for being so agnostic, but can you tell me how to connect my shield, the ezoo splitter and the Formovie to obtain LLDV with the Formovie.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## dimox

Hello guys any way to disable HDR on the Formovie Theater?

I own a Firestick 4K but the Dolbyvision is so dark it is almost impossible to watch some movies and the Firestick 4K only gives two option: HDR or Adaptative


----------



## ACE844

nautikos521 said:


> Hello, there. Sorry for being so agnostic, but can you tell me how to connect my shield, the ezoo splitter and the Formovie to obtain LLDV with the Formovie.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I don't have the ezoo so I'm not likely the best person here to ask.


----------



## noonsa

I compared a few scenes of Godzilla Vs Kong DV vs. SDR and I prefer the DV by a hair. But yeah, the difference is not that much compared to DV on an OLED tv. Although I wouldnt say that DV is unwatchably dark.

----------------------------------------------------- DV Dark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SDR Standard-------------------------------------------


----------



## Ricoflashback

noonsa said:


> I compared a few scenes of Godzilla Vs Kong DV vs. SDR and I prefer the DV by a hair. But yeah, the difference is not that much compared to DV on an OLED tv. Although I wouldnt say that DV is unwatchably dark.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------- DV Dark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SDR Standard-------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 3362939
> View attachment 3362951
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362941
> View attachment 3362943
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362944
> View attachment 3362947
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362948
> View attachment 3362949


What is your source? Streaming or disc?

Also - on a separate note (and I am not absolutely positive), I believe the laser kicks into a higher lumen output on DV/HDR. That probably wouldn't affect the life of the laser based on my 5 year replacement cycle. Still - - most projectors have a difficult time with HDR and DV. (Except for JVC and their incredible tone mapping - but that content must be viewed in a completely light controlled environment.)


----------



## JackB

nautikos521 said:


> Hello, there. Sorry for being so agnostic, but can you tell me how to connect my shield, the ezoo splitter and the Formovie to obtain LLDV with the Formovie.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Read this thread: Alternative Devices for Enabling LLDV.


----------



## zoomx2

nautikos521 said:


> Hello, there. Sorry for being so agnostic, but can you tell me how to connect my shield, the ezoo splitter and the Formovie to obtain LLDV with the Formovie.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Don’t waste your time with Ezcoo because I tried already. It will kicks in DV automatically. You need HDFury convert LLDV to HDR.


----------



## zoomx2

JackB said:


> Read this thread: Alternative Devices for Enabling LLDV.


This trick is for any other projector without DV support.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> _“You win more flies with honey than you do with vinegar” - Some Person_


----------



## 3sprit

In all threads dedicated to USTs I read “contrast, contrast, contrast…” but has anyone measured how much light (lux or foot candles) comes on the screen (doesn't matter if CLR or white…) from the Theater when projecting a black screen? 
Either my projector malfunctions or the “black” is really very “bright”.
Thank you


----------



## MJ DOOM

Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com


New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...




hometheaterhifi.com





Lowest contrast I’ve seen measured on these.


----------



## 3sprit

Is there something I don't understand about those measurements: 1 nit = 1 lux?


----------



## ProjectionHead

MJ DOOM said:


> Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com
> 
> 
> New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hometheaterhifi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lowest contrast I’ve seen measured on these.


Yeah, as well as brightness, possibly measured post calibrated.


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> Yeah, as well as brightness, possibly measured post calibrated.


How much do the brightness and contrast sliders effect the measured contrast? Curious since his values are lower than what Dave posted for his calibration and what I have mine set to based off of test patterns.


----------



## nautikos521

ACE844 said:


> I don't have the ezoo so I'm not likely the best person here to ask.


OK Thank you. Can I send LLDV directly by the Sheild to the Theatre, without the interference of Eczoo? (Using the development option elaborated above)


----------



## ACE844

nautikos521 said:


> OK Thank you. Can I send LLDV directly by the Sheild to the Theatre, without the interference of Eczoo? (Using the development option elaborated above)


As I understand these settings, the dev option is in case the connected display for whatever reason isn't 'sensing/triggering' DV mode on your display. Then you can enable the shield to send only LLDV flags instead of full DV. These options don't force all content to be upscaled and displayed as DV all the time.

One of the ways I am aware of is to use an HDFury VROOM which if I understand the user manual correctly and the dev comments on discord that it can upscale all content pushed through it to LLDV all the time if that option is enabled. It would be better to ask @m0j0, @Dave Harper , @Brajesh , @claw would be better equipped and experienced to elaborate on this feature and explain it than I. I have no issues with my T1 detecting DV properly from the shield alone.


----------



## Brajesh

Shield added ability to output (force) LLDV (source led) in a recent v9.1.1 firmware update. It's under developer options. Here's how to enable developer mode. With this option, you can't force non-DV to LLDV however. You need a Zidoo Z9X, Apple TV 4K or other players that allow it.


----------



## ACE844

Brajesh said:


> Shield added ability to output (force) LLDV (source led) in a recent v9.1.1 firmware update. It's under developer options. Here's how to enable developer mode. With this option, you can't force non-DV to LLDV however. You need a Zidoo Z9X, Apple TV 4K or other players that allow it.


Could one force LLDV using the VROOM upscale option 1?


----------



## Brajesh

Don't think so, but @Dave Harper would be best to advise on this.


----------



## JagNL

I saw that in Chris Magic's youtube review he said 3D support may be coming for this projector, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. Can anyone confirm this might be a possibility?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JagNL said:


> I saw that in Chris Magic's youtube review he said 3D support may be coming for this projector, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. Can anyone confirm this might be a possibility?


That would be very cool but I suspect that it might require a hardware upgrade. We'll see. Xiaomi and Appotronics haven't provided many upgrades for the original T1 so I'm not counting on any 3D support for the Global T1.


----------



## Marc D Carra

JagNL said:


> I saw that in Chris Magic's youtube review he said 3D support may be coming for this projector, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. Can anyone confirm this might be a possibility?


I asked their support people today and they replied today with this response:


----------



## Dave Harper

Ricoflashback said:


> The only way I know of doing that is with my Nvidia Shield Pro where I can toggle on/off HDR and DV. But again, too dark for me so I just leave it at SDR for a brighter, punchier picture.





dimox said:


> Hello guys any way to disable HDR on the Formovie Theater?
> 
> I own a Firestick 4K but the Dolbyvision is so dark it is almost impossible to watch some movies and the Firestick 4K only gives two option: HDR or Adaptative





noonsa said:


> I compared a few scenes of Godzilla Vs Kong DV vs. SDR and I prefer the DV by a hair. But yeah, the difference is not that much compared to DV on an OLED tv. Although I wouldnt say that DV is unwatchably dark.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------- DV Dark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- SDR Standard-------------------------------------------
> 
> View attachment 3362939
> View attachment 3362951
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362941
> View attachment 3362943
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362944
> View attachment 3362947
> 
> 
> View attachment 3362948
> View attachment 3362949


Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!

You do need an HDFury I believe though. 



ACE844 said:


> Could one force LLDV using the VROOM upscale option 1?





Brajesh said:


> Don't think so, but @Dave Harper would be best to advise on this.


Sorry but I have no experience with the VRROOM yet. @claw probably knows.


----------



## oplop

radstheater said:


> I just wanted to say thanks! This helped a lot.
> 
> I have a Denon AVR also. Via eARC, the audio drops every 15 minutes (for about 1-2 seconds), but was dropping every 1-2 minutes.
> 
> Do you have any other settings you think I should try to completely get rid of it? Right now, I have my digital audio format auto to bypass, and my audio settings in my Denon receiver are all default.


Happy to hear that it helped to some extent! I don't really know what other settings could help, but I would try changing the setting to change TV audio output (something like that) in the AVR settings and see if it has any impact. I ended up ditching the built-in apps on the projector, got a chromecast to serve as the main media streamer so that I could have easy access to Netflix, and disabled HDMI control completely on the projector. Works like a charm.


----------



## nautikos521

Brajesh said:


> Shield added ability to output (force) LLDV (source led) in a recent v9.1.1 firmware update. It's under developer options. Here's how to enable developer mode. With this option, you can't force non-DV to LLDV however. You need a Zidoo Z9X, Apple TV 4K or other players that allow it.


But as far as I can understand, I can directly connect the Shield to the Theatre and force DV content to be sent to Theatre as LLDV (using development menu/option), hence see whether the result is better (in my eyes) than pure DV content reproduction by the Theatre.


----------



## nautikos521

Dave Harper said:


> Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!


Incredible news. Looking forward for the new discovery


----------



## okvcos

Dave Harper said:


> Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!
> 
> You do need an HDFury I believe though.


Thank you !!! Can you please let us all know how do you improve DV viewing with HDfury? 
You would make me happy 😄


----------



## jkaterenchuk_4012

Can anyone pm me with Dave Harper's contact info? If Dave himself does see the message he can send me a pm. I have tried to send one but do not yet meet the minimum requirements of the forum to message others. Thanks in advance.


----------



## MarcusD777

Dave Harper said:


> Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!
> 
> You do need an HDFury I believe though.


Spill the beans Dave! Haha. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving holiday!


----------



## Dave Harper

jkaterenchuk_4012 said:


> Can anyone pm me with Dave Harper's contact info? If Dave himself does see the message he can send me a pm. I have tried to send one but do not yet meet the minimum requirements of the forum to message others. Thanks in advance.


No need for PM. I’ll post it here when I am back home after the American Thanksgiving holiday. 

You’ll need an LLDV source device (AppleTV, Zidoo, etc.) and an HDFury to activate some settings. So if you don’t have those it’s time to go Black Friday shopping, haha!

If you’ve been reading some of my posts regarding using RAW LLDV then you already have a good start knowing where this is going.


----------



## Brajesh

Can't wait to learn what this is about! Hope HDFury guys are giving you kickbacks; you've gotta have single-handedly helped sell a whole bunch of 'em.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dave Harper said:


> No need for PM. I’ll post it here when I am back home after the American Thanksgiving holiday.
> 
> You’ll need an LLDV source device (AppleTV, Zidoo, etc.) and an HDFury to activate some settings. So if you don’t have those it’s time to go Black Friday shopping, haha!
> 
> If you’ve been reading some of my posts regarding using RAW LLDV then you already have a good start knowing where this is going.


Which HD Fury device as there are a few on their website and also from where do you recommend buying it? Thanks!


----------



## ProjectionHead

Dave Harper said:


> Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!
> 
> You do need an HDFury I believe though.


lol and I'm hearing about this after everyone else in this thread?!?!?! 😱 😄


----------



## DesertDog

ProjectionHead said:


> lol and I'm hearing about this after everyone else in this thread?!?!?! 😱 😄


You only sign the checks. No need to keep you in the loop.


----------



## g3m

By reading Dave's posts about Raw LLDV in another thread, I tried to guest what was this new trick because I'm impatient  

So I went ahead and configured my HDFury Arcana with LLDV "on", but with HDR "off" instead of "auto". This removes the HDR metadata from the signal and results in the AT4KV outputting Dolby Vision (LLDV) but the projector staying in SDR mode. I think this is what "Raw LLDV" is but I might be very wrong 

This results in a bright and de-saturated image. I was able to recover colors by playing with the Gamma, Adaptive Luma, Color Space setting and others including increasing saturation by a lot. I'm nowhere near qualified enough to obtain a balanced image, but I noticed that it was possible to get a bright LLDV image in SDR mode.

Eager to read about this technique and see if if this is the right approach!


----------



## spinforu

My DV seems to be working fine. Just using a shield pro feeding the T1. I can even get away with DV dark.


----------



## tnarg

So today when I played streaming content from Apple TV, and a blu ray from my blue ray player, a weird pattern would show up. It almost looked like a honey comb shape of bright spots on the entire image. When I switched to other content, or changed the picture mode, it went away. I’m not sure, but it may have appeared when I pulled up the projector menu while still playing content because 2 out of the 3 times I noticed it after I had definitely pulled up the projector menu. Anyone else experienced this?


----------



## nautikos521

brokenconduit said:


> Which HD Fury device as there are a few on their website and also from where do you recommend buying it? Thanks!


I have the same question with you. But it seems that the key difference between ARCANA and Integral is the number of outputs


----------



## iitywygms

tnarg said:


> So today when I played streaming content from Apple TV, and a blu ray from my blue ray player, a weird pattern would show up. It almost looked like a honey comb shape of bright spots on the entire image. When I switched to other content, or changed the picture mode, it went away. I’m not sure, but it may have appeared when I pulled up the projector menu while still playing content because 2 out of the 3 times I noticed it after I had definitely pulled up the projector menu. Anyone else experienced this?


It happens. If you go back and look at some of my posts from a few days back you'll see that I experienced the same thing. I know one other member posted about it too. Kind of looks like major dust spots gets on the lens. But that's not it. I got it this morning. I was trying to go through the menu to figure out what I had set to see if I could maybe do something or pinpoint where it was coming from. But it just went away after I flipped through the menu a few times. Hopefully it only happens once every couple weeks and it's easy to fix.


----------



## MarcusD777

iitywygms said:


> It happens. If you go back and look at some of my posts from a few days back you'll see that I experienced the same thing. I know one other member posted about it too. Kind of looks like major dust spots gets on the lens. But that's not it. I got it this morning. I was trying to go through the menu to figure out what I had set to see if I could maybe do something or pinpoint where it was coming from. But it just went away after I flipped through the menu a few times. Hopefully it only happens once every couple weeks and it's easy to fix.


Happened to me and DesertDog. A factory reset solved the problem atm. Been almost 2 weeks now without a reoccurrence. Before that it started to happen often but would always clear up after changing presets.


----------



## gymnos

I have noticed that USB ports only support FAT32, if you try with NTFS the projector formats the disk without any prompt and you lose every file.

It doesn´t make sense!!


----------



## DesertDog

MarcusD777 said:


> Happened to me and DesertDog. A factory reset solved the problem atm. Been almost 2 weeks now without a reoccurrence. Before that it started to happen often but would always clear up after changing presets.


I'm still clear after 2 week since my factory reset too. I was planning on posting an update today so the question was good timing.


----------



## JackB

I just hooked up my Firestick to HDMI2. It looks good and the HDR material on Netflix is playing as DolbyVision. I would like to play the sound over my AVR but right now it's not working as hoped. I can currently play the Formovie internal apps over my AVR using eARC as my connection is on HDMI3. Is it possible to play HDMI audio from the Firestick over eARC to the AVR or do I have to use the Digital Audio out port?


----------



## gymnos

JackB said:


> I just hooked up my Firestick to HDMI2. It looks good and the HDR material on Netflix is playing as DolbyVision. I would like to play the sound over my AVR but right now it's not working as hoped. I can currently play the Formovie internal apps over my AVR using eARC as my connection is on HDMI3. Is it possible to play HDMI audio from the Firestick over eARC to the AVR or do I have to use the Digital Audio out port?


If you use the SPDIF optical output you won´t get 5.1 audio, it is another issue.


----------



## JackB

gymnos said:


> If you use the SPDIF optical output you won´t get 5.1 audio, it is another issue.


What about Hdmi2 to eARC via HDMI3?


----------



## DesertDog

JackB said:


> What about Hdmi2 to eARC via HDMI3?


Any reason not to plug the firestick into the AVR and let it send the signal to your GT1? Cut out the need for eARC and the headaches it can cause.


----------



## JackB

DesertDog said:


> Any reason not to plug the firestick into the AVR and let it send the signal to your GT1? Cut out the need for eARC and the headaches it can cause.


Took it out of AVR replaced with Chromecast. Just trying different scenarios. The question still remains……can audio go from HDMI2 to HDMI3 eARC and on to the AVR for playing?


----------



## Ricoflashback

I setup my Global T1 in our new house and I must say - at night when it gets dark, the colors are fantastic. I’m sitting a little closer to the screen so I just kept my WEMAX 100” special. The person who put it together and installed it in our apartment was the same person who mounted the screen in our new home. These guys are experts. They must be math gurus as it was a couple measurements on the wall and presto - perfect alignment. I still get the white shadow around the screen but it’s far less noticeable with the darker gray walls I have now.

I had to switch carriers from Comcast to COX as Xfinity is not available at our new address. Same cable internet router, though. A stab in the dark but are there any voice codes that work with the Global T1? I tried Formovie and even Fengmi but no luck. Just to handle the volume.


----------



## ramvignesh

JackB said:


> Took it out of AVR replaced with Chromecast. Just trying different scenarios. The question still remains……can audio go from HDMI2 to HDMI3 eARC and on to the AVR for playing?


It should work. It works like this on my TV. 
TV can play from any hdmi ports or internal apps and send the audio output via earc


----------



## ramvignesh

Hi all,
Have you tried playing a movie from pendrive on Theater projector?
I couldn't do it. It says the pendrive is corrupt even on fat32 as well as NTFS.
There is an option on the projector to format the pendrive and use as an external storage device that can only be accessed by the projector. 

Please advise.

Thanks!


----------



## gymnos

ramvignesh said:


> Hi all,
> Have you tried playing a movie from pendrive on Theater projector?
> I couldn't do it. It says the pendrive is corrupt even on fat32 as well as NTFS.
> There is an option on the projector to format the pendrive and use as an external storage device that can only be accessed by the projector.
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> Thanks!


The USB ports are useless, see above my last post: Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


----------



## nautikos521

Pls verify that HDfury Arcana can do the job with Formovie and my 2015 model DENON AVR. I want to pass DV or LLDV to Formovie and ATMOS to my AVR (NOT HDR or DV capable).. My source is NVIDIA Shield PRO.

Thanks in advance


----------



## H2K1

Hello,
I would like to thank you for encouraging me, by your messages, to buy this projector.
It arrived yesterday, about 10 days after ordering on the official website (I was lucky).
I was surprised when I opened the box, to see fingerprints on the projector. But according to the usage counter, I am the first owner.
I tested it this afternoon and I must say that compared to my previous projector the LG HU715Q, it does much better on almost all points out of the box (colors, brightness, sound, contrast ...)
It seemed to me slightly inferior in terms of sharpness. Like many people I did not manage to have a good focus on the upper corners (especially the left one). The tone mapping for HDR is not more accurate than this one of the LG.
Finally what surprised and disappointed me the most was the black level. I've gone through almost half of the posts on this forum. I read the black values (0.02 nits) that the experts were able to measure. I've seen images with deep blacks that I can't reproduce in my environment. In short, on the scenes (for example the beginning of the movie Rogue One: A Star Wars Story) that I projected the blacks are dark gray. At the level of my old projector (with the adaptive contrast engaged) which surprised me.
I have an ALR UST screen from Fengmi, in a room with white walls and ceiling. 
Do you have any advice for me?


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Hit me up after tomorrow for an incredible new discovery I found which makes DV and every source look absolutely amazing on the ForMovie!!! It totally solves the whole “too dim” issue. So much so that I think @Ricoflashback will be going back to using native DV!
> 
> You do need an HDFury I believe though.












Curious to see the new DV config. I was watching Dune last night and it felt like the bright scenes were too bright, like detail was being washed out. I was thinking of dropping my max luminance down in the DV settings. I'm not sure if that'll fix it but it was going to be my starting point.


----------



## RickMes

Today I decided to install and run the Apps directly from the Formovie instead of the Shield and even though both the hardware and software are nowhere near as fast (also the remote is too simple and lacks a lot of features) I was overall impressed by how image is so much better when streaming direcly from the Theater, specially Dolby Vision.
To anyone using Shield who has not tried this, please do! You won't regret it!


----------



## JackB

What are the proper settings for using digital audio output from the Formovie to my AVR? I have Audio set to Off and Digital Audio Out set to Auto. However, I’m getting no sound. I’ve tried PCM and that doesn’t work either. Am I missing something?


----------



## jeff9n

RickMes said:


> Today I decided to install and run the Apps directly from the Formovie instead of the Shield and even though both the hardware and software are nowhere near as fast (also the remote is too simple and lacks a lot of features) I was overall impressed by how image is so much better when streaming direcly from the Theater, specially Dolby Vision.
> To anyone using Shield who has not tried this, please do! You won't regret it!


This is a very interesting finding as most owners use 3rd party media players.


----------



## RickMes

jeff9n said:


> This is a very interesting finding as most owners use 3rd party media players.


Yes, it really is!
Too bad that Netflix doesn't work though... :/


----------



## radstheater

oplop said:


> Happy to hear that it helped to some extent! I don't really know what other settings could help, but I would try changing the setting to change TV audio output (something like that) in the AVR settings and see if it has any impact. I ended up ditching the built-in apps on the projector, got a chromecast to serve as the main media streamer so that I could have easy access to Netflix, and disabled HDMI control completely on the projector. Works like a charm.


Do you have your chromecast plugged into your projector or the AVR? Im assuming you're streaming from your phone or a laptop? What's the reason for disabling the HDMI control on the projector?


----------



## brokenconduit

People who have the Ikea Besta + Formovie Theater setup I need a favor. When the Formovie is extended out for a 120" screen, if I wanted to put a center channel of it on top of the besta...how high can that center channel be before the laser clips it? Height wise?


----------



## gymnos

JackB said:


> What are the proper settings for using digital audio output from the Formovie to my AVR? I have Audio set to Off and Digital Audio Out set to Auto. However, I’m getting no sound. I’ve tried PCM and that doesn’t work either. Am I missing something?


Have you tried with 'Bypass'?


----------



## ramvignesh

brokenconduit said:


> People who have the Ikea Besta + Formovie Theater setup I need a favor. When the Formovie is extended out for a 120" screen, if I wanted to put a center channel of it on top of the besta...how high can that center channel be before the laser clips it? Height wise?


It depends on the size of center speaker. Practically for 120inch size, we won't have room to place center speaker behind the projector. Even if we place it, the sound quality won't be proper as the rear port of center speaker will be too close to the wall and secondly, the projector will be right below the speaker which will impact the sound.


----------



## Jimmy22

H2K1 said:


> Hello,
> I would like to thank you for encouraging me, by your messages, to buy this projector.
> It arrived yesterday, about 10 days after ordering on the official website (I was lucky).
> I was surprised when I opened the box, to see fingerprints on the projector. But according to the usage counter, I am the first owner.
> I tested it this afternoon and I must say that compared to my previous projector the LG HU715Q, it does much better on almost all points out of the box (colors, brightness, sound, contrast ...)
> It seemed to me slightly inferior in terms of sharpness. Like many people I did not manage to have a good focus on the upper corners (especially the left one). The tone mapping for HDR is not more accurate than this one of the LG.
> Finally what surprised and disappointed me the most was the black level. I've gone through almost half of the posts on this forum. I read the black values (0.02 nits) that the experts were able to measure. I've seen images with deep blacks that I can't reproduce in my environment. In short, on the scenes (for example the beginning of the movie Rogue One: A Star Wars Story) that I projected the blacks are dark gray. At the level of my old projector (with the adaptive contrast engaged) which surprised me.
> I have an ALR UST screen from Fengmi, in a room with white walls and ceiling.
> Do you have any advice for me?


Hi and gratulations to the projector,

I just don't understand what you mean by:

"I tested it this afternoon and I must say that compared to my previous projector the LG HU715Q, it does much better on almost all points out of the box (colors, brightness, sound, contrast ...)"

And then you write: "Finally what surprised and disappointed me the most was the black level."

It was much better than the LG in contrast but also the Formovie dissapointed you regarding black level? That does not sound promising.

I also ordered the Formovie Theater and don't want to be disappointed. I'm interested firstly in the high contrast of above 3000:1 and the other advantages of not having to mount a huge front projector to the ceiling etc. I normally buy JVC projectors for their great black levels and want to make the switch to this UST DLP because in my white living room I need a good CLR screen which retains the contrast due to the room reflections / low ambient light and I don't like the ALR screens for front projectors because they always have this grainy sparkle due to the little metal particles they use and the big degradation of the brightness to the sides of the screen (narrow viewing cone, bad brightness homogenity).

The only screen which I could use for front projection would be the DNP or Parallax with 0.8 Gain, but these are way to expensive and also have not the same capabilities as the CLR screens in terms of ambient light rejection.

Even though the contrast of about 3000:1 in comparison with the JVC's is pretty low, I don't like it to be even less.

I have a room with white walls and watch mainly with very minimal ambient light, so black levels are very important and 3000:1 is the absolute minimum I can cope with. The Formovie has about 1500 calibrated Lumens in the "night" Laser mode as far as I read in reviews. My Epson CLR screen is 120" inch and has 0.5 Gain. That would theoretically result in about 17.5 Foot lamberts. If that is the case I am also thinking to put a rectangular 25% ND filterglass on the projection lens of the projector to darken the picture to about 13 Foot lamberts (which is enough for me with SDR in a darkened room) and lower the black level at the same time.

I hope the Formovie Theater will not dissapoint regarding black levels / contrast 
When the projector will be delivered in about mid december, I can share my thoughts about the black level too.


----------



## H2K1

Jimmy22 said:


> Hi and gratulations to the projector,
> 
> I just don't understand what you mean by:
> 
> "I tested it this afternoon and I must say that compared to my previous projector the LG HU715Q, it does much better on almost all points out of the box (colors, brightness, sound, contrast ...)"
> 
> And then you write: "Finally what surprised and disappointed me the most was the black level."
> 
> It was much better than the LG in contrast but also the Formovie dissapointed you regarding black level? That does not sound promising.
> 
> I also ordered the Formovie Theater and don't want to be disappointed. I'm interested firstly in the high contrast of above 3000:1 and the other advantages of not having to mount a huge front projector to the ceiling etc. I normally buy JVC projectors for their great black levels and want to make the switch to this UST DLP because in my white living room I need a good CLR screen which retains the contrast due to the room reflections / low ambient light and I don't like the ALR screens for front projectors because they always have this grainy sparkle due to the little metal particles they use and the big degradation of the brightness to the sides of the screen (narrow viewing cone, bad brightness homogenity).
> 
> The only screen which I could use for front projection would be the DNP or Parallax with 0.8 Gain, but these are way to expensive and also have not the same capabilities as the CLR screens in terms of ambient light rejection.
> 
> Even though the contrast of about 3000:1 in comparison with the JVC's is pretty low, I don't like it to be even less.
> 
> I have a room with white walls and watch mainly with very minimal ambient light, so black levels are very important and 3000:1 is the absolute minimum I can cope with. The Formovie has about 1500 calibrated Lumens in the "night" Laser mode as far as I read in reviews. My Epson CLR screen is 120" inch and has 0.5 Gain. That would theoretically result in about 17.5 Foot lamberts. If that is the case I am also thinking to put a rectangular 25% ND filterglass on the projection lens of the projector to darken the picture to about 13 Foot lamberts (which is enough for me with SDR in a darkened room) and lower the black level at the same time.
> 
> I hope the Formovie Theater will not dissapoint regarding black levels / contrast
> When the projector will be delivered in about mid december, I can share my thoughts about the black level too.


Hi, 
Thank you.
Yes I am disappointed with the level of black that the Formovie projects. It is comparable to the LG HU715Q which was not good in my opinion. This is one of the reasons why I decided to change my projector.
I'm waiting to hear from Formovie owners about their impressions of the black level. 
Apart from that as I said in my previous post, the Formovie deliver much better contrast, colors and the sound is quite impressive.
On the LG, the colors were quite bland. The native contrast was not good. But it could be improved thanks to the dynamic contrast which has nevertheless undesirable effects (change of tints, pumping effect, milky image)


----------



## Jimmy22

H2K1 said:


> Hi,
> Thank you.
> Yes I am disappointed with the level of black that the Formovie projects. It is comparable to the LG HU715Q which was not good in my opinion. This is one of the reasons why I decided to change my projector.
> I'm waiting to hear from Formovie owners about their impressions of the black level.
> Apart from that as I said in my previous post, the Formovie deliver much better contrast, colors and the sound is quite impressive.
> On the LG, the colors were quite bland. The native contrast was not good. But it could be improved thanks to the dynamic contrast which has nevertheless undesirable effects (change of tints, pumping effect, milky image)



The Fengmi CLR screen should not be the problem. Could you check if your HDMI levels are adjusted correctly? It happened to me also, when I had the projector at the full range of 0-255 and the Player was adjusted to 16-235.
Also maybe try the "night mode" of the Formovie as it lowers the brightness output and therefore the black levels.

I owned DLP projectors, which had about 1500:1 native contrast / 700 Lumen calibrated and viewed them on a 100 inch 0.5 Gain matte grey screen without additional ALR properties. The picture was not enjoyable in dark scenes and milky as you mentioned. With the Epson CLR 0.5 Gain screen which should perform much better than a matte grey screen and almost double the contrast of the Formovie, I hope that it will not disappoint. Otherwise the options will get very limited, because the Formovie already has the highest native contrast of all the DLP UST projectors.


----------



## H2K1

I didn't check if the Hdmi settings were ok.I will. Thanks.
That said I have watched dark scenes from Disney+ movies (installed on the Formovie), the blacks are dark grey.
Moreover I noticed a possible defect on the lens of my projector. I contacted Formovie about this. I am waiting for their answer.


----------



## RickMes

I am still going back and forth between streaming from Formovie apps or my Shield Pro.
Since playing Dolby Digital from Formovie looks better than from the Shield, I would like to configure the later as 4k SDR. However, when I uncheck the HDR/DV options it seems that I can only stream HD even though the shield's resolution is set to 4k.

Any help? @Ricoflashback ? You seem to prefer SDR, can you enlighten me here, please?

Thanks everyone.


----------



## g3m

H2K1 said:


> I didn't check if the Hdmi settings were ok.I will. Thanks.
> That said I have watched dark scenes from Disney+ movies (installed on the Formovie), the blacks are dark grey.
> Moreover I noticed a possible defect on the lens of my projector. I contacted Formovie about this. I am waiting for their answer.


I find the black levels quiet good compared to my previous experience using an early adopter UST (Optoma Cinemax P1). Below is a scene from "Thor: Love and Thunder" on Disney+ using an ATV 4K in Dolby Vision. A picture taken on iPhone will always have better contrast, but I can tell you the result is satisfying to me in person. This image is projected on a 0.6 gain Vividstorm ALR screen.

If you are watching Dolby Vision (DV) content in Disney+ using the projector native DV capabilities, make sure you configure the settings in the Projector->Dolby Vision menu. You need to configure your screen size and gain then restart the projector. Dolby Vision Dark should give you the better blacks, but they will be crushed (according to my experience). The native alternative is Dolby Vision Bright which is more accurate but with grayish blacks. 

For DV content (but it can be applied to all contents), the other option is to go the LLDV route with a device like the ones from HDFury. For this, you must also use a compatible LLDV external streaming box like the AppleTV (this is what I do) . This will allow for greater tinkering because DV content will be displayed under the HDR10 picture mode which unlock options such as Adaptive Luma Control which can help with perceived black levels.You will also be able to play with other parameters in the LLDV itself (e.g. DV Max Lum). 

Good luck!


----------



## JackB

gymnos said:


> Have you tried with 'Bypass'?


I did try Bypass but with no success. The digital audio cable is showing light so I guess the Formovie is sending a signal although I don’t know if that means anything.


----------



## nautikos521

DesertDog said:


> View attachment 3364803
> 
> 
> Curious to see the new DV config. I was watching Dune last night and it felt like the bright scenes were too bright, like detail was being washed out. I was thinking of dropping my max luminance down in the DV settings. I'm not sure if that'll fix it but it was going to be my starting point.


DAVE HARPER still pending your incredible new discovery


----------



## Joered101

Dave Harper said:


> Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020.
> 
> Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie?


Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated


----------



## okvcos

nautikos521 said:


> DAVE HARPER still pending your incredible new discovery


Who has seen David Haper ?


----------



## H2K1

g3m said:


> I find the black levels quiet good compared to my previous experience using an early adopter UST (Optoma Cinemax P1). Below is a scene from "Thor: Love and Thunder" on Disney+ using an ATV 4K in Dolby Vision. A picture taken on iPhone will always have better contrast, but I can tell you the result is satisfying to me in person. This image is projected on a 0.6 gain Vividstorm ALR screen.
> 
> If you are watching Dolby Vision (DV) content in Disney+ using the projector native DV capabilities, make sure you configure the settings in the Projector->Dolby Vision menu. You need to configure your screen size and gain then restart the projector. Dolby Vision Dark should give you the better blacks, but they will be crushed (according to my experience). The native alternative is Dolby Vision Bright which is more accurate but with grayish blacks.
> 
> For DV content (but it can be applied to all contents), the other option is to go the LLDV route with a device like the ones from HDFury. For this, you must also use a compatible LLDV external streaming box like the AppleTV (this is what I do) . This will allow for greater tinkering because DV content will be displayed under the HDR10 picture mode which unlock options such as Adaptive Luma Control which can help with perceived black levels.You will also be able to play with other parameters in the LLDV itself (e.g. DV Max Lum).
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> View attachment 3365294


Thank you for your help. I will test this to see if it improves the black level. Unfortunately I think I will return my projector, hopefully for an exchange, as it has a defect on the lens 😕.


----------



## sudteen010

Hi, i just bought Formovie theater then want to CMS. Can someone give me spectral correction file for i1pro? and LUT file for Madvr 
Thanks !!

[email protected]


----------



## Sultantiran

Hello All!
On the problem of poor focus in the upper corners, especially in the upper-left corner and the way to solve this problem described in this post #6141:

Formovie Fengmi T1

I tried and really found exactly the same reason! The focus adjustment ring does not turn to the end! I tried different options, but the only way to fix it was to manually slide the ring all the way. The disadvantage of this solution is that when you try to press the focus adjustment buttons (right-left arrows), the ring returns to its place. That is, after you have turned it over with your hands, you can no longer adjust the focus from the remote control. What else can I add - indeed, having reached the end of the program adjustment (not the physical end of the adjustment), the ring automatically returns about one or two mm back. Therefore, a rebound in focus is visible. Why this was done is not clear to me. You can try to catch the extreme position with the buttons (to catch the best focus), but you can still bring the ring with your hands even further and fix the focus problem.
Of course, you need to understand that when opening the case, you lose the warranty on the projector. And of course you do all this at your own risk. In my case, I was ready to go for it, you decide for yourself!

P.S. I am more than satisfied with the result! The screen is 120" in size. I didn't take a photo before the adjustment, but there was no focus at all in the upper corners, the letters in the start menu were blurred. Everything is clear now!


----------



## SmSnko

I can't see a focused image in the upper corners of the last photos. The lower corners are sharpened but upper not for me.


----------



## Sultantiran

Unfortunately, it is no longer possible to move the ring. Before that, it was really bad .


----------



## SmSnko

ok but its still not focused. I have same result as you after you "repaired" it.


----------



## Sultantiran

Yes, this is a real problem of this model and a flaw of the engineers - there is not enough ring stroke for good focusing, it rests against the limiter. But at least the situation can be improved to an acceptable result. Anyway, when viewing real content, everything is fine now!


----------



## ramvignesh

Jimmy22 said:


> I need a good CLR screen which retains the contrast due to the room reflections / low ambient light


Any ambient light will kill the contrast. Even I was under expectations to use in day light. I got the Theater projector and alr CBSP screen from Wupro. The screen makes the video usable to watch but I couldnt watch a movie or song with window screens open as the contrast gets reduced. With dark scenes, the video is not good to watch with ambient light even with the alr screen. (Attached are pictures)







































Also, the screen rejects ceiling light but I don't think it is effectively rejecting ambient light from the sides.


----------



## fancyclown

@Dave Harper bro


----------



## patels922

Sultantiran said:


> Hello All!
> On the problem of poor focus in the upper corners, especially in the upper-left corner and the way to solve this problem described in this post #6141:
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1
> 
> I tried and really found exactly the same reason! The focus adjustment ring does not turn to the end! I tried different options, but the only way to fix it was to manually slide the ring all the way. The disadvantage of this solution is that when you try to press the focus adjustment buttons (right-left arrows), the ring returns to its place. That is, after you have turned it over with your hands, you can no longer adjust the focus from the remote control. What else can I add - indeed, having reached the end of the program adjustment (not the physical end of the adjustment), the ring automatically returns about one or two mm back. Therefore, a rebound in focus is visible. Why this was done is not clear to me. You can try to catch the extreme position with the buttons (to catch the best focus), but you can still bring the ring with your hands even further and fix the focus problem.
> Of course, you need to understand that when opening the case, you lose the warranty on the projector. And of course you do all this at your own risk. In my case, I was ready to go for it, you decide for yourself!
> 
> P.S. I am more than satisfied with the result! The screen is 120" in size. I didn't take a photo before the adjustment, but there was no focus at all in the upper corners, the letters in the start menu were blurred. Everything is clear now!



TY For the write up and clarification Dave! Unfortunately, opening the projector does VOID the warranty!


----------



## ramvignesh

brokenconduit said:


> People who have the Ikea Besta + Formovie Theater setup I need a favor. When the Formovie is extended out for a 120" screen, if I wanted to put a center channel of it on top of the besta...how high can that center channel be before the laser clips it? Height wise?


I tried this setup as shown in the attached pictures. It saved some space by overlapping above the projector. I had to disable the IR sensor for this.


----------



## g3m

For anyone using *forced *LLDV (e.g. with the ATV) and looking to improve the overall brightness and HDR impacts without dulling the blacks, I recommend you use the following approach if you are not a calibrator.

First use this black clipping pattern. Look to have only 0% or 0.5% completely black. I recommend setting your Adaptive Luma Control and Local Contrast Control first and playing with the picture brightness setting afterward. I recommend Strong for Adaptive Luma and Middle for Local Contrast. Gamma I set to "Bright". This is from Dave's recommended settings (thanks!)






Second, use this Checkerboard Pattern (10,000 Nits). Depending on your DV MaxLum value, you should be able to see the numbers in the square up to the number of nits LLDV will tone map up to. On my setup, I could see number up to almost 10,000 nits. Now the interesting part, you can either play with your picture contrast setting and/or your DV MaxLum to have everything at your ideal max nits value a bright white. Personally, I augmented my picture contrast to have a bright white for 4,000 nits and above. Theoretically HDR content can reach 10,000 nits, but rarely HDR content in streaming is encoded to reach above 4,000 nits in my experience.






This dramatically improved brightness and perceived contrast VS leaving the contrast at the default level 50. Before I had a kind of "dimness" in broard day light scenes. Playing with the picture contrast level improved the image a lot without impacting the blacks because of settings like Adaptive Luma Control!

Finally, go back to the black clipping pattern and see if you lost or increased details in blacks. Play with contrast and brightness levels to reach ideal black details (0% to 0.5% completely black). It's a balancing act. I'm not a calibrator and this is not exact science, but I find this approach improved my image by a lot.


----------



## H2K1

Hello,

I have a question and it's not a trick. What do you see in this picture?


----------



## Formovie Official

Hi all, this is the Formovie team.

Thank you so much for your support and attention. 🙌
Formovie values and appreciates every suggestion and opinion. In order to reduce the communication distance with everyone, Formovie's Product Manager will participate in the discussion together to solve doubts and problems.

Thanks Brain @ProjectionHead for helping us participate in the forum! Now we are ready to start exploring here! There are a lot of messages that we need to read and organize. Please give us a little time, and thank you for your understanding!💓


----------



## manageablebits

Hi. Great to see Formovie themselves getting involved and reading user comments!

I'm on page 53 of this megathread while I wait for my theater to replace a Benq lamp UST. Its taking me days to get through but well worth it! Using an Elitescreens CLR screen (bought from the EU in summer).

1. Can anyone confirm if I'll be able to auto power on the projector from appletv? My set up is will be appletv -> soundbar passthrough -> projector. My Benq turns on when I power appletv and when I turn it off it goes into auto power off with no signal in 5 mins (incase I forget to turn it off from its remote manually).

2. Is there an issue which requires switching hdmi back and forward still? Hope not as family would not enjoy that especially if the remote loses connectivity sometimes.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Formovie Official said:


> Hi all, this is the Formovie team.
> 
> Thank you so much for your support and attention. 🙌
> Formovie values and appreciates every suggestion and opinion. In order to reduce the communication distance with everyone, Formovie's Product Manager will participate in the discussion together to solve doubts and problems.
> 
> Thanks Brain @ProjectionHead for helping us participate in the forum! Now we are ready to start exploring here! There are a lot of messages that we need to read and organize. Please give us a little time, and thank you for your understanding!💓


----------



## mirzank

Formovie Official said:


> Hi all, this is the Formovie team.
> 
> Thank you so much for your support and attention. 🙌
> Formovie values and appreciates every suggestion and opinion. In order to reduce the communication distance with everyone, Formovie's Product Manager will participate in the discussion together to solve doubts and problems.


@Formovie Official
hello and glad to finally see you here. Great initiative to ensure you can get direct customer feedback and I’m quite sure you being around to address issues here will certain win you lots of long term brand loyalty. 

not to flood you just when you arrive but I want to make sure you have two issues on your radar that keep cup:

1) remote disconnecting and then not reconnecting : I and quite a few others have even having an issue where the remote will not connect upon startup. Even pressing home and back does not connect and restarting won’t fix. Sometimes that screen comes up that shows the remote and saying to press home and back. Other times it does not. If I have wifi I can use my phone to bring up remote pairing menu and then remote pairs. But if wifi is not connecting then it’s just randomly hoping it connects on restart or plugging in a usb mouse to go to remote menu.

2)wifi not connecting: wifi does not connect upon turning on projector. Even going into wifi menu it does not detect wifi. Only way to fix it is to unplug projector from wall socket and re plug.

not sure if you have already noted these issues and would be great if you could let us know if you know of this issue and working on a fix.


----------



## ACE844

mirzank said:


> @Formovie Official
> hello and glad to finally see you here. Great initiative to ensure you can get direct customer feedback and I’m quite sure you being around to address issues here will certain win you lots of long term brand loyalty.
> 
> not to flood you just when you arrive but I want to make sure you have two issues on your radar that keep cup:
> 
> 1) remote disconnecting and then not reconnecting : I and quite a few others have even having an issue where the remote will not connect upon startup. Even pressing home and back does not connect and restarting won’t fix. Sometimes that screen comes up that shows the remote and saying to press home and back. Other times it does not. If I have wifi I can use my phone to bring up remote pairing menu and then remote pairs. But if wifi is not connecting then it’s just randomly hoping it connects on restart or plugging in a usb mouse to go to remote menu.
> 
> 2)wifi not connecting: wifi does not connect upon turning on projector. Even going into wifi menu it does not detect wifi. Only way to fix it is to unplug projector from wall socket and re plug.
> 
> not sure if you have already noted these issues and would be great if you could let us know if you know of this issue and working on a fix.


ALso wired LAN ethernet randomly fails as well and reverts to a wifi connection....


----------



## brokenconduit

ramvignesh said:


> I tried this setup as shown in the attached pictures. It saved some space by overlapping above the projector. I had to disable the IR sensor for this.
> View attachment 3366070
> 
> View attachment 3366068
> 
> View attachment 3366069


I like the engineering to make this happen but it is just too messy for me. I need something cleaner for a living room setup type situation. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Casey_Bryson

ramvignesh said:


> I tried this setup as shown in the attached pictures. It saved some space by overlapping above the projector. I had to disable the IR sensor for this.
> View attachment 3366070
> 
> View attachment 3366068
> 
> View attachment 3366069


Great idea. UST Furniture makers need to incorporate something like this for Center Channel users.


----------



## DesertDog

manageablebits said:


> Hi. Great to see Formovie themselves getting involved and reading user comments!
> 
> I'm on page 53 of this megathread while I wait for my theater to replace a Benq lamp UST. Its taking me days to get through but well worth it! Using an Elitescreens CLR screen (bought from the EU in summer).
> 
> 1. Can anyone confirm if I'll be able to auto power on the projector from appletv? My set up is will be appletv -> soundbar passthrough -> projector. My Benq turns on when I power appletv and when I turn it off it goes into auto power off with no signal in 5 mins (incase I forget to turn it off from its remote manually).
> 
> 2. Is there an issue which requires switching hdmi back and forward still? Hope not as family would not enjoy that especially if the remote loses connectivity sometimes.


1. Yes, or at least I think it should. Power on/off from my AppleTV works for me. I'm going through an AVR though instead of a soundbar. So if the soundbar doesn't mess with CEC then you should be able to get it working. 

2. I haven't had this issue. It always turns back on for me with the same HDMI input and I haven't had the handshake issues since I switched from Auto to 2.1 in settings.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Casey_Bryson said:


> Great idea. UST Furniture makers need to incorporate something like this for Center Channel users.


I've given up on a center channel for a UST projector. In fact, unless it's at ear level, I don't care what anyone says about angling it up - - it's muddy at best. Even the GT1 speaker - which is a fine speaker for a UST projector - is aimed at your knees with most setups. A real revelation for me was our bedroom mounted, A80 65" Sony TV, which sounded better than my projector since the sound through the TV was at ear height and coming at you from the center of the TV. I plan on a phantom center with my Focal Chora 826-D's (4) when finally delivered.

Hey - roll with the best center speaker solution you can but I'm convinced that a phantom center will work best for me.


----------



## extension23

Ricoflashback said:


> I've given up on a center channel for a UST projector. In fact, unless it's at ear level, I don't care what anyone says about angling it up - - it's muddy at best. Even the GT1 speaker - which is a fine speaker for a UST projector - is aimed at your knees with most setups. A real revelation for me was our bedroom mounted, A80 65" Sony TV, which sounded better than my projector since the sound through the TV was at ear height and coming at you from the center of the TV. I plan on a phantom center with my Focal Chora 826-D's (4) when finally delivered.
> 
> Hey - roll with the best center speaker solution you can but I'm convinced that a phantom center will work best for me.


I opted for a DIY 2 layer milliskin spandex screen (back layer black, front layer white) with the speaker behind the screen. If you have a light controlled room that you can paint the back wall and ceiling black it works amazingly well. Dialog and other center related sound issues that my wife used to complain about are completely gone. I was honestly surprised by how great it works and in a dark room the image is fantastic. Unless someone comes out with an interesting new CLR screen that is also AT and somewhat reasonably priced, I don't have a compelling reason to switch.


----------



## extension23

extension23 said:


> Focus - I followed the advice here and waited check and adjust the focus. I did see some minor improvement on the upper left corner after the unit had been playing for several hours, however it never really gets a sharp focus in that corner. The lower right corner has exceptionally shar focus, but I could never get anywhere near the level of sharpness in the other corners. While the lack of sharp focus is not as noticeable in films or shows, it is noticeable anytime you are in Kodi or the Android TV interface. The fact that the first thing out of my wife's mouth when seeing those interfaces was "Why does it look kind of blurry?" is never a good sign when trying to get acceptance of one of my new toys.


I thought I would share an update on this since I saw some of the other recent focus issues people were posting. I purchased my unit through projectorscreen.com and they were great to work with on the focus issue I had. I ended up having to return the initial unit and they confirmed there was an issue with the focus on it and sent me a new unit. The new one is great. Focus works exactly as expected and I get consistent focus in all 4 corners. They were great to work with and I think that speaks to the advantage of making sure you get the projector through a retailer that will provide good support for the products they sell.


----------



## todd270z

After a crash course on projectors over the last 10 days or so, I ordered the ForMovie Theater and a Spectra Projection Vantage 100 from www.projectorscreen.com. A projection setup wasn't even on my radar a few weeks ago. I've got a Samsung 86" QLED that's only a year old. But, I got the bug wanting to maximize the use of the available space and through the help of all these posts, reviews, critiques, showdowns, etc., made my decision. I hope it works out. Really looking forward to enjoying the ForMovie.


----------



## Dave Harper

ProjectionHead said:


> lol and I'm hearing about this after everyone else in this thread?!?!?!


Sorry this was just a secondary HarperVision thing with an HDFURY, which we don’t sell yet. 



g3m said:


> By reading Dave's posts about Raw LLDV in another thread, I tried to guest what was this new trick because I'm impatient
> 
> So I went ahead and configured my HDFury Arcana with LLDV "on", but with HDR "off" instead of "auto". This removes the HDR metadata from the signal and results in the AT4KV outputting Dolby Vision (LLDV) but the projector staying in SDR mode. I think this is what "Raw LLDV" is but I might be very wrong
> 
> This results in a bright and de-saturated image. I was able to recover colors by playing with the Gamma, Adaptive Luma, Color Space setting and others including increasing saturation by a lot. I'm nowhere near qualified enough to obtain a balanced image, but I noticed that it was possible to get a bright LLDV image in SDR mode.
> 
> Eager to read about this technique and see if if this is the right approach!


You’re on the right track with the first part, and I used to do what you’re suggesting with my initial HarperVision settings years ago on Epsons. 

You have to get it to go into its HDR mode with this one though. 



brokenconduit said:


> Which HD Fury device as there are a few on their website and also from where do you recommend buying it? Thanks!


Vertex2 or VRROOM are best. 



DesertDog said:


> View attachment 3364803
> 
> 
> Curious to see the new DV config. I was watching Dune last night and it felt like the bright scenes were too bright, like detail was being washed out. I was thinking of dropping my max luminance down in the DV settings. I'm not sure if that'll fix it but it was going to be my starting point.





nautikos521 said:


> DAVE HARPER still pending your incredible new discovery





Joered101 said:


> Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated





okvcos said:


> Who has seen David Haper ?





fancyclown said:


> @Dave Harper bro


Sorry everyone. I’ve been battling some medical issues and I’ve had some good days and bad days. My mind still thinks I can run at the pace I was accustomed to before but alas my body isn’t cooperating lately! 

I wrote this in another thread and it’s a good explanation here for now:

Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on... 



Dave Harper said:


> Actually it kinda did turn into vinegar! The first night I was testing when I checked off “Disable LLDV” in the HDFury Vertex2 GUI, it seemed to disable some sort of LLDV metadata within the signal, but it still activated HDR10 in the ForMovie Theater UST so the resultant image was phenomenal! It literally worked ALL NIGHT and I stayed up going through known movie after movie scenes testing it, in awe.
> 
> Then for some reason after shutting down and going back to it the next few days, I’ve been unable to replicate this behavior.
> 
> I don’t know what the issue could be, but I’ve seen similar weird things like this before so I am starting to suspect my HDFury Vertex2. It seems to lock onto some settings and parameters when switching things around, but then after all the sources and sinks connected are shut down it must reset itself back or something. idk it’s very confusing and probably explains some strange stuff I saw in the past too.
> 
> Last night I was able to actually stumble on a very similar setup and image quality but I want to revisit it today to make sure the same thing doesn’t happen again.
> 
> I’ll report here finally when I can confirm it is stable and works every time.
> 
> Sorry for the delay.


----------



## DesertDog

Dave Harper said:


> Sorry everyone. I’ve been battling some medical issues and I’ve had some good days and bad days. My mind still thinks I can run at the pace I was accustomed to before but alas my body isn’t cooperating lately!
> 
> I wrote this in another thread and it’s a good explanation here for now:
> 
> Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on...


No worries Dave, take your time and get better. I know how that goes. I got RSV on Nov. 4th and it took almost 3 weeks for me to be right. 

For your Vertex issues, try doing a factory reset. Twice after FW updates I had issues and it's what HDFury Help had me do. Fixed it both times.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dave Harper said:


> Vertex2 or VRROOM are best.


Hi Dave, hope you feel better and thank you for the advice! They both seem to be good, which would you pick?

May I know is there a big learning curve to using this device with the Formovie? Or more plug and play?


----------



## Ricoflashback

todd270z said:


> After a crash course on projectors over the last 10 days or so, I ordered the ForMovie Theater and a Spectra Projection Vantage 100 from www.projectorscreen.com. A projection setup wasn't even on my radar a few weeks ago. I've got a Samsung 86" QLED that's only a year old. But, I got the bug wanting to maximize the use of the available space and through the help of all these posts, reviews, critiques, showdowns, etc., made my decision. I hope it works out. Really looking forward to enjoying the ForMovie.


You made a good choice. Enjoy your projector. There still is a noticeable difference between an 86" image and a 100" image.


----------



## pdoherty972

What’s the minimum size to throw this projector on that justifies it over a regular TV? For the price it seems you could get a mid-range 85” TV - would shooting this at a 90” or 100” be worth it? How would quality compare (any opinions)?


----------



## DesertDog

pdoherty972 said:


> What’s the minimum size to throw this projector on that justifies it over a regular TV? For the price it seems you could get a mid-range 85” TV - would shooting this at a 90” or 100” be worth it? How would quality compare (any opinions)?


It's really preference but for me I'd say 100" screen would be my minimum with 110" or 120" being more ideal. Before the GT1 I had an 85" TV and went to a 120" screen. That was worth it. Prior to the GT1 I went the 85" TV route because with the long throw PJs that I was looking at I could only get a 90" image due to my room config. To me I found the 85" TV the better solution in that case then trying to mess with a PJ for only a slightly larger screen. Breaking the 100" mark is what it took for me.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> It's really preference but for me I'd say 100" screen would be my minimum with 110" or 120" being more ideal. Before the GT1 I had an 85" TV and went to a 120" screen. That was worth it. Prior to the GT1 I went the 85" TV route because with the long throw PJs that I was looking at I could only get a 90" image due to my room config. To me I found the 85" TV the better solution in that case then trying to mess with a PJ for only a slightly larger screen. Breaking the 100" mark is what it took for me.


Good advice. If the OP can bump up his screen size to 110" or 120" - - that would really seal the deal.


----------



## Dave Harper

DesertDog said:


> No worries Dave, take your time and get better. I know how that goes. I got RSV on Nov. 4th and it took almost 3 weeks for me to be right…..


Well I’m running on 19+ years! Thanks for the well wishes though!



DesertDog said:


> ……For your Vertex issues, try doing a factory reset. Twice after FW updates I had issues and it's what HDFury Help had me do. Fixed it both times.


I’ve tried that on at least one occasion, but I can try another reset I guess. 



brokenconduit said:


> Hi Dave, hope you feel better and thank you for the advice! They both seem to be good, which would you pick?
> 
> May I know is there a big learning curve to using this device with the Formovie? Or more plug and play?


Thanks!

It depends if you want or need hdmi 2.1 or not, which the VRROOM has and the Vertex2 doesn’t. 

I working on settings right now where ch hopefully makes it pretty easy with only selecting a couple check boxes.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dave Harper said:


> Well I’m running on 19+ years! Thanks for the well wishes though!
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve tried that on at least one occasion, but I can try another reset I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> It depends if you want or need hdmi 2.1 or not, which the VRROOM has and the Vertex2 doesn’t.
> 
> I working on settings right now where ch hopefully makes it pretty easy with only selecting a couple check boxes.


I do want HDMI 2.1 so I guess VRROOM it is. That would be awesome to be more plug and play. What does this do the Formovie exactly, make the colors more accurate/deeper blacks?

On that note, what are your thoughts on the AWOL and this new enhanced black thing going on and have you messed around with that by any chance?


----------



## mirzank

Dave Harper said:


> Thanks!
> 
> It depends if you want or need hdmi 2.1 or not, which the VRROOM has and the Vertex2 doesn’t.
> 
> I working on settings right now where ch hopefully makes it pretty easy with only selecting a couple check boxes.


does the arcana work for what youre suggesting or no?


----------



## ProFragger

Formovie Official said:


> Hi all, this is the Formovie team.
> 
> Thank you so much for your support and attention. 🙌
> Formovie values and appreciates every suggestion and opinion. In order to reduce the communication distance with everyone, Formovie's Product Manager will participate in the discussion together to solve doubts and problems.
> 
> Thanks Brain @ProjectionHead for helping us participate in the forum! Now we are ready to start exploring here! There are a lot of messages that we need to read and organize. Please give us a little time, and thank you for your understanding!💓


Welcome and thank you for your participation here. Will your engineers also be participating in the Formovie T1 thread here and supporting us early adopters of your excellent projector? Thank you for your response, in advance!


----------



## Sultantiran

Hello.
At the request of one of the forum members, I wrote a short instruction on the topic of manual focus refinement. Posted on the page Formovie Fengmi T1


----------



## okvcos

Sultantiran said:


> Hello.
> At the request of one of the forum members, I wrote a short instruction on the topic of manual focus refinement. Posted on the page Formovie Fengmi T1


Thank you very much ... sorry ... where are the photos you describe ?


----------



## Sultantiran

okvcos said:


> Thank you very much ... sorry ... where are the photos you describe ?











Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie? Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Dave Harper

brokenconduit said:


> I do want HDMI 2.1 so I guess VRROOM it is. That would be awesome to be more plug and play. What does this do the Formovie exactly, make the colors more accurate/deeper blacks?
> 
> On that note, what are your thoughts on the AWOL and this new enhanced black thing going on and have you messed around with that by any chance?


It mainly seems to allow you to see much more of the shadow details and peak highlights. It adds more depth and dimensionality and the colors seem to really come alive without being oversaturated and artificial looking. 

I haven’t seen the new enhanced black on the AWOL. Sorry. 



mirzank said:


> does the arcana work for what youre suggesting or no?


It should, but I haven’t tested it yet. 

I’m having so many issues with the Vertex2 being stable. I send LLDV and then change a lot of the HDR Tab values and it either does nothing or it locks into whatever I did last and nothing changes no matter the selection. It’s getting very frustrating. It’s so hard to know what’s what!

Maybe I’ll break out the Arcana and see if that works. It’s just so much harder to do testing with that since it has no web GUI.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Dave Harper said:


> It mainly seems to allow you to see much more of the shadow details and peak highlights. It adds more depth and dimensionality and the colors seem to really come alive without being oversaturated and artificial looking.
> 
> I haven’t seen the new enhanced black on the AWOL. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> It should, but I haven’t tested it yet.
> 
> I’m having so many issues with the Vertex2 being stable. I send LLDV and then change a lot of the HDR Tab values and it either does nothing or it locks into whatever I did last and nothing changes no matter the selection. It’s getting very frustrating. It’s so hard to know what’s what!
> 
> Maybe I’ll break out the Arcana and see if that works. It’s just so much harder to do testing with that since it has no web GUI.


Would you speculate that's an issue by the nature of the HDFury, or isolated to the one you have acting up?


----------



## shanedowley

Dave Harper said:


> It mainly seems to allow you to see much more of the shadow details and peak highlights. It adds more depth and dimensionality and the colors seem to really come alive without being oversaturated and artificial looking.
> 
> I haven’t seen the new enhanced black on the AWOL. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> It should, but I haven’t tested it yet.
> 
> I’m having so many issues with the Vertex2 being stable. I send LLDV and then change a lot of the HDR Tab values and it either does nothing or it locks into whatever I did last and nothing changes no matter the selection. It’s getting very frustrating. It’s so hard to know what’s what!
> 
> Maybe I’ll break out the Arcana and see if that works. It’s just so much harder to do testing with that since it has no web GUI.


Dave, I’ve had the Vertex2 since 2019 using it everyday since. During that time I’ve learned its various idiosyncrasies. Once it’s set up, it’s rock solid reliable. However configuring and tweaking it is a different matter. I’ve learned (the hard way) to reboot after each change. This ensures the change made is actually the change applied. I then add each change incrementally. It’s tedious but I’ve learned the hard way that multiple changes particularly on the HDR, DV and CEC tabs of the web interface often don’t commit properly leading to spurious results. Also ensure you’re on the latest fw version (0.62 currently).


----------



## todd270z

Ricoflashback said:


> You made a good choice. Enjoy your projector. There still is a noticeable difference between an 86" image and a 100" image.


Thanks. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's that much bigger than an 86", but it will neatly fill the entire space. Glad to know that the difference will be noticeable.


----------



## brokenconduit

Dave Harper said:


> It mainly seems to allow you to see much more of the shadow details and peak highlights. It adds more depth and dimensionality and the colors seem to really come alive without being oversaturated and artificial looking.
> 
> I haven’t seen the new enhanced black on the AWOL. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> It should, but I haven’t tested it yet.
> 
> I’m having so many issues with the Vertex2 being stable. I send LLDV and then change a lot of the HDR Tab values and it either does nothing or it locks into whatever I did last and nothing changes no matter the selection. It’s getting very frustrating. It’s so hard to know what’s what!
> 
> Maybe I’ll break out the Arcana and see if that works. It’s just so much harder to do testing with that since it has no web GUI.


No worries, if you have any updates for us on it in comparison to the Formovie Theater, would love to get your thoughts!


----------



## Ricoflashback

So, I've been thinking of ways to deal with the white shadow around my GT1 that is more visible at night or in a totally dark room. How about this - - black velvet, adhesive product wrapped around a 1" by 8" select pine board and then screwed on to the wall as a frame around my projector screen. Since my projector screen is out about 1 1/4" from the wall, this should fit pretty closely to make it as visual appealing and stealth as possible. Anyone try something like this?









Amazon.com: Black Self Adhesive Velvet Fabric Sticky Felt Sheets for Art & Crafts, Jewelry Box, Drawer Liners- 2PCS x (17.3" x 39.3")


Shop COLOURFUL US at the Amazon Arts, Crafts & Sewing store. Free Shipping on eligible items. Save on everyday low prices.



www.amazon.com













1 in. x 8 in. x 8 ft. Select Pine Board 929612 - The Home Depot


Provide you with the perfect solution for all your project needs. These boards combine the highest grade available in the market with unsurpassed quality of finish, making them ideal for any interior application. These boards have no knots, so every part of the board is useable with no need for...



www.homedepot.com


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> So, I've been thinking of ways to deal with the white shadow around my GT1 that is more visible at night or in a totally dark room. How about this - - black velvet, adhesive product wrapped around a 1" by 8" select pine board and then screwed on to the wall as a frame around my projector screen. Since my projector screen is out about 1 1/4" from the wall, this should fit pretty closely to make it as visual appealing and stealth as possible. Anyone try something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Black Self Adhesive Velvet Fabric Sticky Felt Sheets for Art & Crafts, Jewelry Box, Drawer Liners- 2PCS x (17.3" x 39.3")
> 
> 
> Shop COLOURFUL US at the Amazon Arts, Crafts & Sewing store. Free Shipping on eligible items. Save on everyday low prices.
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 in. x 8 in. x 8 ft. Select Pine Board 929612 - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> Provide you with the perfect solution for all your project needs. These boards combine the highest grade available in the market with unsurpassed quality of finish, making them ideal for any interior application. These boards have no knots, so every part of the board is useable with no need for...
> 
> 
> 
> www.homedepot.com


That should help. I did my entire front wall in black velvet since I couldn't stand the halo. Consider getting a couple yards of fabric though over using the adhesive version that you linked. I used one like that to line the GT1's shelf and the top of its stand to kill the reflection I was getting off of them. 

It worked well but was difficult to work with. It kept bunching up when I tried to lay it down so I was getting creases. It would drive me nuts to try to do a frame like you're thinking about. Tacking a the fabric will be quicker and easier IMO. The quality of the velvet is better too.


----------



## Ricoflashback

DesertDog said:


> That should help. I did my entire front wall in black velvet since I couldn't stand the halo. Consider getting a couple yards of fabric though over using the adhesive version that you linked. I used one like that to line the GT1's shelf and the top of its stand to kill the reflection I was getting off of them.
> 
> It worked well but was difficult to work with. It kept bunching up when I tried to lay it down so I was getting creases. It would drive me nuts to try to do a frame like you're thinking about. Tacking a the fabric will be quicker and easier IMO. The quality of the velvet is better too.


Any idea on where to get quality velvet that I can tack on or staple on for this solution? The tightness of the frame is the key - - at the joints, top left, right & bottom left and right. It doesn't have to be the Mona Lisa. But I'd like it as neat and unobtrusive as possible. Thx.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Any idea on where to get quality velvet that I can tack on or staple on for this solution? The tightness of the frame is the key - - at the joints, top left, right & bottom left and right. It doesn't have to be the Mona Lisa. But I'd like it as neat and unobtrusive as possible. Thx.


I used this Black Velvet off of Etsy that another member had said he used. It's 59"x how many yards you order so you have options on getting one long piece or trying to line up seams to be invisible. 

If anyone needs a bunch of it, that same etsy shop sells a cut-offs lot. It's 10 pieces of 1 yd each for $39. Best $/yd I've seen. It's what I used to black out my wall with just tacking them up at the corners. You can't see the tacks or seams when a movie is on and it's not noticeable with the lights on unless you're looking for it.


----------



## shyam.srini

Posted in the Fengmi T1 thread, posting the same question here as I have bought the Formovie theater and I wanted to find out if anyone was able to pair a subwoofer to the Formovie theater projector? (Apologies if this is something that has already been asked, would be great if someone could point me in that direction)


----------



## ramvignesh

shyam.srini said:


> Posted in the Fengmi T1 thread, posting the same question here as I have bought the Formovie theater and I wanted to find out if anyone was able to pair a subwoofer to the Formovie theater projector? (Apologies if this is something that has already been asked, would be great if someone could point me in that direction)


As far I know, there is no provision to directly connect a sub woofer to the projector. Only option is to connect a receiver or sound bar which will switch the sound off the projector.


----------



## oplop

radstheater said:


> Do you have your chromecast plugged into your projector or the AVR? Im assuming you're streaming from your phone or a laptop? What's the reason for disabling the HDMI control on the projector?


It's plugged in to the AVR. I wanted to be able to turn the projector on and off without impacting for example music playback on the chromecast and AVR.

Additionally, I wanted to use Google Assistant on the projector so that the assistant sounds come from the projector's own speakers and whatever is playing continues playing uninterrupted on the main speaker system. I found that with any level of HDMI control on, sounds (including the assistant) coming from the projector's own system led to HDMI losing sync which was super annoying.


----------



## galego100

The projector have Dolby Vision and HDR10 , what is the advantage of using an HDfury ?
Soon i will buy the Formovie Theater ( January) , i have oppo 203 and Apple TV . The Vertex2 will improve or will give which benefits? On projectors without HDR/DV i get it...
The Hdfury have a better tone mapping than the Formovie Theater? Or better than Apple TV or Oppo 203?


----------



## shyam.srini

ramvignesh said:


> As far I know, there is no provision to directly connect a sub woofer to the projector. Only option is to connect a receiver or sound bar which will switch the sound off the projector.


Thanks a lot ramvignesh! Looks like there is no other go for now!


----------



## g3m

galego100 said:


> The projector have Dolby Vision and HDR10 , what is the advantage of using an HDfury ?
> Soon i will buy the Formovie Theater ( January) , i have oppo 203 and Apple TV . The Vertex2 will improve or will give which benefits? On projectors without HDR/DV i get it...
> The Hdfury have a better tone mapping than the Formovie Theater? Or better than Apple TV or Oppo 203?


Here are some of the benefits :

*Control of the black and white clipping points for better details.* When using the built-in Dolby Vision Picture mode, you input your screen gain and size and you get a picture with fixed black and white clipping points. With LLDV, you can play around with the DV MaxLum value to lower or increase the clipping points. This would allow you to recover, for example, better details in dark scenes. I was able to get a better black clipping point in my setup compared to the built-in Dolby Vision.
*Unlocking Adaptive Luma Control for better perceived contrast.* When using the built-in Dolby Vision Picture mode, the Adaptive Luma Control setting is locked (this is not the case for HDR10 or SDR). This setting will alter the picture to increase the perceived contrast. I suspect this setting is locked in the built-in Dolby Vision mode to ensure greater picture accuracy. However, I prefer to sacrifice some picture accuracy for better perceived contrast. You can test the setting for yourself in HRD10 and see if this is something you would like for your Dolby Vision content.
Keep in my using an HDFury to get LLDV from the ATV4K will probably involve a lot of trial and error to get the best results. If you don't like tinkering, the built-in Dolby Vision is fine. In the "Bright" DV mode, the tone mapping is quiet good and it keeps a lot of the details in the picture at higher nits level.


----------



## manageablebits

Any up to date news on stock? Here in the UK there's talk of a global shortage and recommendations to go for a different brand due to no known resupply dates.


----------



## ice2hot

Fox&304 said:


> Anybody has this plugged to a PS5 ? If so, are you having issues with some signal cutouts, and have to scale back the HDMI bandwith in the PS5 settings in order to make this work on 2.1 HDMI ?


 I had trouble with formovie on HDMI 3 and 1. Connect it on HDMI 2 and it should give you 2.1 connectivity and show HDR enabled in games.


----------



## Cmawg

ice2hot said:


> I had trouble with formovie on HDMI 3 and 1. Connect it on HDMI 2 and it should give you 2.1 connectivity and show HDR enabled in games.


It's been mentioned elsewhere here, leaving EDID at the default of Auto won't give you HDMI 2.1 consistently if at all. Seems that setting can also periodically get reset entirely. If you go into the HDMI settings for an active connection if it's at Auto you should select 2.1 manually which could help, you might need to unplug or reset the connecting device too.


----------



## g3m

Anyone knows if ProjectorCentral.com will do a review of the Formovie Theater? I like the format and the level of details of their reviews + they usually provide calibrated settings that are worth a try.🤞


----------



## Dave Harper

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Would you speculate that's an issue by the nature of the HDFury, or isolated to the one you have acting up?


I don’t even know if that’s exactly the issue. It could easily be the projector or any other device in the chain! I started isolating it to narrow it down. It seems to be stable and holding tonight. 



shanedowley said:


> Dave, I’ve had the Vertex2 since 2019 using it everyday since. During that time I’ve learned its various idiosyncrasies. Once it’s set up, it’s rock solid reliable. However configuring and tweaking it is a different matter. I’ve learned (the hard way) to reboot after each change. This ensures the change made is actually the change applied. I then add each change incrementally. It’s tedious but I’ve learned the hard way that multiple changes particularly on the HDR, DV and CEC tabs of the web interface often don’t commit properly leading to spurious results. Also ensure you’re on the latest fw version (0.62 currently).


Good advice that I’ve always tried to follow, but sometimes in my haste to test so much stuff I probably don’t do it as much as I should!


----------



## SmSnko

if you are thinking about screen. Here is epson ALR 120, i bought it for 1000 Euro. I am very satisfied. Here is photo with all lights on.


----------



## Formovie Official

Recently, we have received inquiries from users about some fake news they have heard about our products. Therefore, there are doubts about the material and safety of the coating on the glass of light outlet and lens of our product, Formovie Theater Triple Color Laser TV. The negative news has appeared on social media and professional forums. In this regard, Formovie makes the following solemn statement to user questions:

All the rumors that Formovie Theater the glass of the light outlet and lens is coated by plastic coating are seriously inconsistent with the facts.

The lens of Formovie Theater features anti-reflection glass with reflector bowl to increase light transmission and reduce light loss. The anti-reflection glass is resistant to high temperatures (temperature resistance > 500℃), scratch-resistant, abrasion-resistant and has strong impact resistance. The reflector bowl is coated with metal film, which can effectively insulate heat.
The glass of the light outlet of Formovie Theater is coated with anti-fingerprint particle coating, the main components of which are stainless steel and fluorosilicon compounds. It is effectively anti-fingerprint, oil-proof, and dust-proof, has a very high light transmittance, and has a scratch-resistant and wear-resistant effect.
All Formovie products follow strict quality standards and factory inspections, and will not use materials that affect product functions and endanger user safety.

For all false remarks, we will reserve the right to investigate the corresponding responsibilities of those who spread false information.
-- Formovie Team​


----------



## rjyap

Formovie Official said:


> Recently, we have received inquiries from users about some fake news they have heard about our products. Therefore, there are doubts about the material and safety of the coating on the glass of light outlet and lens of our product, Formovie Theater Triple Color Laser TV. The negative news has appeared on social media and professional forums. In this regard, Formovie makes the following solemn statement to user questions:
> 
> All the rumors that Formovie Theater the glass of the light outlet and lens is coated by plastic coating are seriously inconsistent with the facts.
> 
> The lens of Formovie Theater features anti-reflection glass with reflector bowl to increase light transmission and reduce light loss. The anti-reflection glass is resistant to high temperatures (temperature resistance > 500℃), scratch-resistant, abrasion-resistant and has strong impact resistance. The reflector bowl is coated with metal film, which can effectively insulate heat.
> The glass of the light outlet of Formovie Theater is coated with anti-fingerprint particle coating, the main components of which are stainless steel and fluorosilicon compounds. It is effectively anti-fingerprint, oil-proof, and dust-proof, has a very high light transmittance, and has a scratch-resistant and wear-resistant effect.
> All Formovie products follow strict quality standards and factory inspections, and will not use materials that affect product functions and endanger user safety.
> 
> For all false remarks, we will reserve the right to investigate the corresponding responsibilities of those who spread false information.
> -- Formovie Team​


It's been quoted that the lens is plastic not glass since the very beginning of T1 thread. Not sure who started this but I believe this is mention that T1 lens is inferior to Hisense glass lens. Also can you confirm there's any plan to implement dynamic laser dimming to increase dynamic contrast for low APL scene?


----------



## Ricoflashback

rjyap said:


> It's been quoted that the lens is plastic not glass since the very beginning of T1 thread. Not sure who started this but I believe this is mention that T1 lens is inferior to Hisense glass lens. Also can you confirm there's any plan to implement dynamic laser dimming to increase dynamic contrast for low APL scene?


I thought that reference was to the cover over the lens. Not the lens itself. So, if I read this correctly - - the lens and cover are both glass?


----------



## spinforu

I don't see that as main part of the list of concerns. I don't think they are reading and addressing anything in this thread lol


----------



## Ricoflashback

spinforu said:


> I don't see that as main part of the list of concerns. I don't think they are trading and addressing anything in this thread lol


Give them some time. Formovie just joined the thread. I'm glad they are participating and that Brian was able to get them on the AVS Forum. I'm sure they have other things on their collective plate, as well.


----------



## spinforu

Ricoflashback said:


> Give them some time. Formovie just joined the thread. I'm glad they are participating and that Brian was able to get them on the AVS Forum. I'm sure they have other things on their collective plate, as well.


In sure it is not the engineers reading this, Probably the marketing person and in my opinion they have been here long enough to at least address some of the things constantly brought up in this thread 🤷‍♂️. I'm enjoying mine but there are obviously some issues. They got the invite by the only American distributor and should be jumping on this with enthusiasm and empathy to address questions since there doesn't seem to be much information or updates being released by them elsewhere.


----------



## ProjectionHead

spinforu said:


> In sure it is not the engineers reading this, Probably the marketing person and in my opinion they have been here long enough to at least address some of the things constantly brought up in this thread 🤷‍♂️. I'm enjoying mine but there are obviously some issues. They got the invite by the only American distributor and should be jumping on this with enthusiasm and empathy to address questions since there doesn't seem to be much information or updates being released by them elsewhere.


Their product management team is reading this. There are 135 pages of things to review, please be patient with them.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Formovie Official said:


> Recently, we have received inquiries from users about some fake news they have heard about our products. Therefore, there are doubts about the material and safety of the coating on the glass of light outlet and lens of our product, Formovie Theater Triple Color Laser TV. The negative news has appeared on social media and professional forums. In this regard, Formovie makes the following solemn statement to user questions:
> 
> All the rumors that Formovie Theater the glass of the light outlet and lens is coated by plastic coating are seriously inconsistent with the facts.
> 
> The lens of Formovie Theater features anti-reflection glass with reflector bowl to increase light transmission and reduce light loss. The anti-reflection glass is resistant to high temperatures (temperature resistance > 500℃), scratch-resistant, abrasion-resistant and has strong impact resistance. The reflector bowl is coated with metal film, which can effectively insulate heat.
> The glass of the light outlet of Formovie Theater is coated with anti-fingerprint particle coating, the main components of which are stainless steel and fluorosilicon compounds. It is effectively anti-fingerprint, oil-proof, and dust-proof, has a very high light transmittance, and has a scratch-resistant and wear-resistant effect.
> All Formovie products follow strict quality standards and factory inspections, and will not use materials that affect product functions and endanger user safety.
> 
> For all false remarks, we will reserve the right to investigate the corresponding responsibilities of those who spread false information.
> -- Formovie Team​





spinforu said:


> I don't see that as main part of the list of concerns. I don't think they are reading and addressing anything in this thread lol


We have heard this rumor (that there is a plastic film over the lens of the Formovie Theater that will fog up after some usage) by multiple different people who have called in to speak with our sales team. Those people said they heard it directly from another brand, who I know is still bitter from their loss in the LaserTV Showdown.

It looks like Formovie has heard these these rumors as well.

I'm not going to name names, but I understand why Formovie is putting out a statement refuting it.


----------



## spinforu

ProjectionHead said:


> We have heard this rumor (that there is a plastic film over the lens of the Formovie Theater that will fog up after some usage) by multiple different people who have called in to speak with our sales team. Those people said they heard it directly from another brand, who I know is still bitter from their loss in the LaserTV Showdown.
> 
> It looks like Formovie has heard these these rumors as well.
> 
> I'm not going to name names, but I understand why Formovie is putting out a statement refuting it.


I have not seen this brought up over and over in this thread is what I was saying. I'm being patient, it's just my opinion that they have had time to at least start and this was not one of the major concerns in this thread. Again just one guys opinion. If i have a company that relies on word of mouth mainly to do business I'm going where the questions are to address them.


----------



## mirzank

spinforu said:


> I have not seen this brought up over and over in this thread is what I was saying. I'm being patient, it's just my opinion that they have had time to at least start and this was not one of the major concerns in this thread. Again just one guys opinion. If i have a company that relies on word of mouth mainly to do business I'm going where the questions are too address them.


Totally agree with you. First i'm hearing of this lense thing, and additionally I have 0 complaints about the lens, and its maybe been brought up by some people but don't recall anyone being super alarmed or concerned about it. But the other issues that have been consistently brought up seem to have prompted no response from them or a roadmap to fix.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> Totally agree with you. First i'm hearing of this lense thing, and additionally I have 0 complaints about the lens, and its maybe been brought up by some people but don't recall anyone being super alarmed or concerned about it. But the other issues that have been consistently brought up seem to have prompted no response from them or a roadmap to fix.


I think they wanted to just address the rumor; I am certain they will be addressing the other concerns as well.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> Their product management team is reading this. There are 135 pages of things to review, please be patient with them.


Totally appreciate that @Formovie Official are here and reading this, but if they are going through 135 pages of this thread that may not be the most efficient use of their resources/time.

I'd have taken the approach of
1) Highlighting what issues they have received feedback on
2) which issues they have been able to replicate and are addressing/fixing
3) which issues they need more input on and thus maybe have people get in touch with logs etc.
4) what their roadmap/timeline of addressing issues is
5) what other features they may be working on (optional ofcourse as maybe its not disclosable to the public yet before its fully baked)

This way atleast there is transparency and if theres anything they've missed i'm sure the users here would bring them up in maximum 1-2 pages for formovie to review, instead of going over 135 pages. Having followed this thread since the beginning, like alot of the regulars here, i'm sure we could really just reproduce these issues in a post as well if it was helpful.
ANyway i'm not a product manager so what do i know


----------



## ProjectionHead

mirzank said:


> Totally appreciate that @Formovie Official are here and reading this, but if they are going through 135 pages of this thread that may not be the most efficient use of their resources/time.
> 
> I'd have taken the approach of
> 1) Highlighting what issues they have received feedback on
> 2) which issues they have been able to replicate and are addressing/fixing
> 3) which issues they need more input on and thus maybe have people get in touch with logs etc.
> 4) what their roadmap/timeline of addressing issues is
> 5) what other features they may be working on (optional ofcourse as maybe its not disclosable to the public yet before its fully baked)
> 
> This way atleast there is transparency and if theres anything they've missed i'm sure the users here would bring them up in maximum 1-2 pages for formovie to review, instead of going over 135 pages. Having followed this thread since the beginning, like alot of the regulars here, i'm sure we could really just reproduce these issues in a post as well if it was helpful.
> ANyway i'm not a product manager so what do i know


I'm sure they would appreciate you compiling that list. Thanks for volunteering


----------



## tnaik4

Sultantiran said:


> Hello All!
> On the problem of poor focus in the upper corners, especially in the upper-left corner and the way to solve this problem described in this post #6141:
> 
> Formovie Fengmi T1
> 
> I tried and really found exactly the same reason! The focus adjustment ring does not turn to the end! I tried different options, but the only way to fix it was to manually slide the ring all the way. The disadvantage of this solution is that when you try to press the focus adjustment buttons (right-left arrows), the ring returns to its place. That is, after you have turned it over with your hands, you can no longer adjust the focus from the remote control. What else can I add - indeed, having reached the end of the program adjustment (not the physical end of the adjustment), the ring automatically returns about one or two mm back. Therefore, a rebound in focus is visible. Why this was done is not clear to me. You can try to catch the extreme position with the buttons (to catch the best focus), but you can still bring the ring with your hands even further and fix the focus problem.
> Of course, you need to understand that when opening the case, you lose the warranty on the projector. And of course you do all this at your own risk. In my case, I was ready to go for it, you decide for yourself!
> 
> P.S. I am more than satisfied with the result! The screen is 120" in size. I didn't take a photo before the adjustment, but there was no focus at all in the upper corners, the letters in the start menu were blurred. Everything is clear now!


Hello my friend, i m the one who tried the solution u mentioned and i found a way to even retain the automatic focus adjuster from the remote control, so if u want to give it a try.
What i did is push slightly up the tail end of the plastic cover where the mirror is that reflect the image, u can see its empty under it, so i found a small object and stuck it in there to slightly keep it pushed up and that did it without even forcing the focus ring all the way to the right.


----------



## mirzank

ProjectionHead said:


> I'm sure they would appreciate you compiling that list. Thanks for volunteering


I'd actually already volunteered and added my two cents about the common issues i've noticed, hoping the @Formovie Official team would take note (and these issues were top of mind at the time for me because they are also issues I face):









Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...


Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie? Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated




www.avsforum.com





Basically the issues are:

1) *remote losing connection*, and then not reconnecting even pressing home and back key as indicated on screen. Even restarting PJ, or unplugging from power doesnt reconnect remote. only way to do it is either to use the google tv app to manually pair (which is impossible if wifi doesnt connect) or use a usb mouse.

2) *Wifi not connecting*, until you power unplug and replug the PJ. If wifi doesnt connect and remote doesnt connect, this basically is a terrible combination as you cant go into the remote menu by using the google tv app to pair the remote again manually.

Additionally here are the issues that keep coming up for others:

3) *HDMI handshake* fails and falls back to hdmi 1.4. This issue more commonly occurs if you set hdmi to auto, and if you set it to 2.1 it happens less, but still happens.

4) *PJ not fully focused*, even though some users have achieved success by opening up the PJ and adjusting the ring manually. Im not an engineer but i suspect this is more of a hardware fix and not something formovie can fix with software.

5) Some users having issues with *soundbars connected to earc port* with no sound (I havent experienced this with sonos arc)

6) *USB port can only read FAT formatted drives,* which basically makes it useless for 1080p or 4k files. Not sure if this is a hardware limitation or software

7) Theres also an issue that kept coming up recently ( I went back 10-15 pages but couldnt find the posts), where some users have *lines or blobs appear on screen*, but they go away once you factory reset the PJ.

*There are also some other questions that keep coming up that would be good to answer: *

8) We should get some clarity on w*hether this PJ is HDR10+ capable* or not. while the specs say its HDR10+, i believe Kraine has reported it is not (just going off the top of my head, maybe it was someone else)

9) On *apple tv if you set it to 4k Dolby vision*, the colours are washed out, and if you set it to 4k SDR the colours seem better. So most of us with Apple TV are using it in SDR. not sure if this is a PJ issue or apple tv

10) Are there any plans to* implement dynamic laser dimmin*g (not sure if this is possible with current hardware)

I'd propose if anybody else wants to add issues to the list or provide details on a specific issue, *reply to this post*. That way atleast the formovie team may be able to keep track of the issues in an ongoing thread.


----------



## rooterha

HDMI Handshake has been an issue since the Chinese T1 and hundreds of us have emailed Formovie about it... so it's either not possible to fix via firmware or they don't care. Not to be negative, but I've seen nothing to indicate they are listening based off of my experience over the last year.


----------



## rooterha

ProjectionHead said:


> I think they wanted to just address the rumor; I am certain they will be addressing the other concerns as well.


Was it AWOL? They were trashing the T1 to my buddy who was talking to their CS.


----------



## DesertDog

mirzank said:


> 7) Theres also an issue that kept coming up recently ( I went back 10-15 pages but couldnt find the posts), where some users have *lines or blobs appear on screen*, but they go away once you restart the PJ.


Small clarification on this one. It appears doing a Factory Reset fixes it, not restart. Still trying to see if it's a temp fix or not. It's been about 3 weeks for me now. 2 nights ago I thought I got a bright spot but it went away so it might have been the video I was watching. I was going to test it this weekend. 

@Formovie Official please let me/us know when you're looking through these and I'll fill in the details. I have pictures and video of the issue and can document it for it.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

mirzank said:


> 5) Some users having issues with *soundbars connected to earc port* with no sound (I havent experienced this with sonos arc)


Does anyone know which soundbars work and which don't? I'm looking at the Q990B and the Sonos Arc mainly, but would be interested to hear which are working with the FMT.


----------



## MarcusD777

DesertDog said:


> Small clarification on this one.  It appears doing a Factory Reset fixes it, not restart. Still trying to see if it's a temp fix or not. It's been about 3 weeks for me now. 2 nights ago I thought I got a bright spot but it went away so it might have been the video I was watching. I was going to test it this weekend.
> 
> @Formovie Official please let me/us know when you're looking through these and I'll fill in the details. I have pictures and video of the issue and can document it for it.


I’m still good after a factory reset with this same issue. It’s been about 3 weeks as well. Fingers crossed!


----------



## mirzank

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Does anyone know which soundbars work and which don't? I'm looking at the Q990B and the Sonos Arc mainly, but would be interested to hear which are working with the FMT.


I have a sonos arc which had no issues for the short time I had it connected. My testing was limited though as I then moved my soundbar to a different home and haven’t used it since. I’d search through the thread but from memory I think the q990b was mentioned and had issues working. Again just based purely on memory I could be totally wrong.


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

mirzank said:


> I have a sonos arc which had no issues for the short time I had it connected. My testing was limited though as I then moved my soundbar to a different home and haven’t used it since. I’d search through the thread but from memory I think the q990b was mentioned and had issues working. Again just based purely on memory I could be totally wrong.


Okay that's helpful thank you. I've had a lot of connection issues between my Xiaomi and my LG SK10Y and the goal is to simplify the setup, and do a better version 2.0. Arc might be the move.


----------



## mirzank

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Okay that's helpful thank you. I've had a lot of connection issues between my Xiaomi and my LG SK10Y and the goal is to simplify the setup, and do a better version 2.0. Arc might be the move.


I suspect arc is one of the more popular sound bars here so just wait for others to chime in to confirm.


----------



## manageablebits

Does anyone know where the microphone is located? I want to make a front cover to protect the speakers (which I dont use) fabric from a puppy..


----------



## JackB

mirzank said:


> I'd actually already volunteered and added my two cents about the common issues i've noticed, hoping the @Formovie Official team would take note (and these issues were top of mind at the time for me because they are also issues I face):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie? Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically the issues are:
> 
> 1) *remote losing connection*, and then not reconnecting even pressing home and back key as indicated on screen. Even restarting PJ, or unplugging from power doesnt reconnect remote. only way to do it is either to use the google tv app to manually pair (which is impossible if wifi doesnt connect) or use a usb mouse.
> 
> 2) *Wifi not connecting*, until you power unplug and replug the PJ. If wifi doesnt connect and remote doesnt connect, this basically is a terrible combination as you cant go into the remote menu by using the google tv app to pair the remote again manually.
> 
> Additionally here are the issues that keep coming up for others:
> 
> 3) *HDMI handshake* fails and falls back to hdmi 1.4. This issue more commonly occurs if you set hdmi to auto, and if you set it to 2.1 it happens less, but still happens.
> 
> 4) *PJ not fully focused*, even though some users have achieved success by opening up the PJ and adjusting the ring manually. Im not an engineer but i suspect this is more of a hardware fix and not something formovie can fix with software.
> 
> 5) Some users having issues with *soundbars connected to earc port* with no sound (I havent experienced this with sonos arc)
> 
> 6) *USB port can only read FAT formatted drives,* which basically makes it useful for 1080p or 4k files. Not sure if this is a hardware limitation or software
> 
> 7) Theres also an issue that kept coming up recently ( I went back 10-15 pages but couldnt find the posts), where some users have *lines or blobs appear on screen*, but they go away once you restart the PJ.
> 
> *There are also some other questions that keep coming up that would be good to answer: *
> 
> 8) We should get some clarity on w*hether this PJ is HDR10+ capable* or not. while the specs say its HDR10+, i believe Kraine has reported it is not (just going off the top of my head, maybe it was someone else)
> 
> 9) On *apple tv if you set it to 4k Dolby vision*, the colours are washed out, and if you set it to 4k SDR the colours seem better. not sure if this is a PJ issue of apple tv
> 
> 10) Are there any plans to* implement dynamic laser dimmin*g (not sure if this is possible with current hardware)
> 
> I'd propose if anybody else wants to add issues to the list or provide details on a specific issue, *reply to this post*. That way atleast the formovie team may be able to keep track of the issues in an ongoing thread.


I would like to add a request to adjust focus with the video material that is playing at the time of adjusting. My other projectors have this option and I find it easier to adjust focus this way.


----------



## mirzank

New review of the projector;








Formovie THEATER 4K UST projector review


The Formovie THEATER is a very compelling 4K UST projector.




www.gsmarena.com


----------



## gymnos

mirzank said:


> Totally appreciate that @Formovie Official are here and reading this, but if they are going through 135 pages of this thread that may not be the most efficient use of their resources/time.
> 
> I'd have taken the approach of
> 1) Highlighting what issues they have received feedback on
> 2) which issues they have been able to replicate and are addressing/fixing
> 3) which issues they need more input on and thus maybe have people get in touch with logs etc.
> 4) what their roadmap/timeline of addressing issues is
> 5) what other features they may be working on (optional ofcourse as maybe its not disclosable to the public yet before its fully baked)
> 
> This way atleast there is transparency and if theres anything they've missed i'm sure the users here would bring them up in maximum 1-2 pages for formovie to review, instead of going over 135 pages. Having followed this thread since the beginning, like alot of the regulars here, i'm sure we could really just reproduce these issues in a post as well if it was helpful.
> ANyway i'm not a product manager so what do i know


+1000

They should let us know if they are planning to launch more firmwares and what issues can be fixed via software.


----------



## JackB

I have two questions after reading the review above:
1. Does the Formovie offer a Blanking function? If not, can it be done using Keystone correction?
2. Can you turn off the pixel shifting to just use the native 1080P panel?


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> After calibration in Laser night Mode (lowest mode) : 1678 lumens, 6431K with 1,79 DeltaE, 2.2 Gamma and 3626:1 native contrast (a new record for a DLP triple laser projector). Gamut "only" 89,5% rec.2020


Good afternoon!

Please tell me, did you somehow check that the measured on / off contrast of 3500: 1 is native? And is not achieved by dimming the light source?
It looks very strange that all projectors using a 0.47 inch DMD chip usually achieve a contrast ratio of 500 - 700:1, and then suddenly 3500:1, this is more like a dynamic contrast achieved by dimming a light source.

Sincerely.


----------



## H2K1

Vladimirovich said:


> Good afternoon!
> 
> Please tell me, did you somehow check that the measured on / off contrast of 3500: 1 is native? And is not achieved by dimming the light source?
> It looks very strange that all projectors using a 0.47 inch DMD chip usually achieve a contrast ratio of 500 - 700:1, and then suddenly 3500:1, this is more like a dynamic contrast achieved by dimming a light source.
> 
> Sincerely.


Hi,
It's native, I think. This is related to the design of their optical block. All projectors using ALPD lasers have contrast ratios of at least 2000:1.


----------



## Vladimirovich

H2K1 said:


> Hi,
> It's native, I think. This is related to the design of their optical block. All projectors using ALPD lasers have contrast ratios of at least 2000:1.


Hi!
Only two projectors were measured to exceed the standard chip contrast of 0.47 inches and use ALPD 4.0.
The light source cannot affect the native contrast of the chip.
Probably in ALPD 4.0 there is dimming of an additional laser working through a phosphor wheel.


----------



## H2K1

Vladimirovich said:


> Hi!
> Only two projectors were measured to exceed the standard chip contrast of 0.47 inches and use ALPD 4.0.
> The light source cannot affect the native contrast of the chip.
> Probably in ALPD 4.0 there is dimming of an additional laser working through a phosphor wheel.


Vava UST 4k, Formovie cinema 4K, Xiaomi cinema 2, Xiaomi laser 4K, Viewsonic x2000, Xgimi aura, I can name a few others, all of which exceed the 2000:1 contrast ratio. And they have an ALPD 3.0 laser source. The experts on this thread @kraine or @ProjectionHead , to name a few, will be able to confirm that the measured contrasts are native.


----------



## 3sprit

ProjectionHead said:


> as well as brightness, possibly measured post calibrated.


My black (an all black screen) is very bright as well as the black letterbox bars are really annoying.
I have no way to measure brightness "professionally".
I only have the "cheap" tool indicated below but the only way to measure a value is to do it a few centimeters from the laser...


----------



## 3sprit

H2K1 said:


> But according to the usage counter, I am the first owner.


Where is this counter?


----------



## H2K1

3sprit said:


> Where is this counter?


Sorry but I don't remember. And I don't have the projector anymore. I returned it for an exchange because it seems that the optical block was defective.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Just a suggestion but is there a way to have a separate "Technical Formovie Global Theater T1" thread monitored by Formovie and/or Brian to keep all the issues and questions in one place?


----------



## Ricoflashback

By the way - - I'm still enjoying my GT1 and the incredible colors and black level this projector has. Since we moved into our house, the walls have been painted a darker, gray color and the room, while it has a sloped, higher, off-white ceiling - - the viewing environment is very dark. So much so that I had to plug in a motion detected, night light, so I don't stumble around in the dark while going to the kitchen in the other room. 

Has anyone noticed with older movies or even newer movies you've seen before - - new colors and shades appearing on folks clothes and the scenery? Subtle shades and older car paint jobs that I fondly remember.


----------



## Joered101

@Dave Harper hey, did you have a chance to read my DM? Not even sure if it’s got through to you as I’m not so familiar with the conversation system on AVS…. Thanks!


----------



## MarcusD777

Ricoflashback said:


> By the way - - I'm still enjoying my GT1 and the incredible colors and black level this projector has. Since we moved into our house, the walls have been painted a darker, gray color and the room, while it has a sloped, higher, off-white ceiling - - the viewing environment is very dark. So much so that I had to plug in a motion detected, night light, so I don't stumble around in the dark while going to the kitchen in the other room.
> 
> Has anyone noticed with older movies or even newer movies you've seen before - - new colors and shades appearing on folks clothes and the scenery? Subtle shades and older car paint jobs that I fondly remember.


I definitely have noticed alot of expanded color replication on older movies. Just in watching a lot of the Christmas classics this year the expanded color on the 4k remaster of the old claymation Rudolph movie is crazy good on this projector. We also watched The Santa Clause over the weekend and it was very impressive what the Formovie produced color wise yet still has a natural and not overblown color vibrancy. For me the versatility of how this projector handles all different kinds of movies, and games and the ability to not have to continually tweak settings to get consistency from source to source is key. I have a couple of custom presets for movie and streaming, for both SDR and HDR/DV viewing and then a single game preset for SDR games (for Nintendo Switch) and then (2) HDR/DV presets for Series X (Game, and User profile w/ game mode enabled). I really think having the ability to put any of the preset profiles into game mode is a killer feature. Not only for gaming but for older movies enabling game mode on any preset takes off any additional sharpening/processing which produces a very natural and cinematic image.


----------



## DesertDog

Ricoflashback said:


> Has anyone noticed with older movies or even newer movies you've seen before - - new colors and shades appearing on folks clothes and the scenery? Subtle shades and older car paint jobs that I fondly remember.


What I've been noticing a lot along these lines is smoke/steam/fog. I'm seeing little wisps of it that I didn't before. I've been attributing it to how much time I've spent dialing in the contrast/brightness while also having my DV setup better. My old TV was blowing out detail too much. The S&M horses were a white background on it.


----------



## kraine

H2K1 said:


> Hi,
> It's native, I think. This is related to the design of their optical block. All projectors using ALPD lasers have contrast ratios of at least 2000:1.


With APLD the contrast is native, there is no subterfuge with the dynamic management of the laser. The secret of these excellent results (which are verified from one model to another) is contained in the design of the optical block of these UST laser models.


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> With APLD the contrast is native, there is no subterfuge with the dynamic management of the laser. The secret of these excellent results (which are verified from one model to another) is contained in the design of the optical block of these UST laser models.


How did you check it? Were there contrast measurements other than on/off?
How can an optical unit increase the contrast of a chip, which is five times the limit due to the mirror density of approximately 700:1?

Sincerely.


----------



## kraine

I doubt that Appotronics wants to reveal its industrial secret that allows it to outrun its competitors.
It is easy to verify that it is a native contrast by checking the power consumption. If it were a dynamic variation of the contrast, it would be easy to show a change in power consumption during the projection, but this is not the case.


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> I doubt that Appotronics wants to reveal its industrial secret that allows it to outrun its competitors.
> It is easy to verify that it is a native contrast by checking the power consumption. If it were a dynamic variation of the contrast, it would be easy to show a change in power consumption during the projection, but this is not the case.


Appotronics does not release the final product, but the light source, the chip is installed the same and in most cases its contrast is in the range of 500 - 700:1.
I understand correctly that you did not measure contrast other than on/off?

Sincerely.


----------



## kraine

Sorry but you are wrong because Appotronics manufactures the whole
of the optical block. Sorry if you don't believe in these measurements which confirm the ALPD supremacy but they exist and not only
in my tests.


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> Sorry but you are wrong because Appotronics manufactures the whole
> of the optical block. Sorry if you don't believe in these measurements which confirm the ALPD supremacy but they exist and not only
> in my tests.


The optical block can lead to a difference in contrast, but cannot increase it by 5 times ...
The 0.47 chip does not exceed the native contrast ratio of 700:1.
The 0.66 chip, which has the same density of mirrors, does not exceed 1000:1, for example, Benq HT9060, there is an outstanding lens and despite this, only 1000:1 and 4000:1 dynamic.
Your measurements and measurements of other users, this is an on\off measurement.
When displaying a black field, no one prevents the manufacturer from manipulating the light source or blocking the light flux mechanically.
Take a measurement with 1% or 2% white on the screen, this will answer this question.

Sincerely.


----------



## Dave Harper

Joered101 said:


> @Dave Harper hey, did you have a chance to read my DM? Not even sure if it’s got through to you as I’m not so familiar with the conversation system on AVS…. Thanks!


Sorry don’t check it as much as I should. It’s pretty much the last in line as far as daily priorities. I get so many PMs asking me to be a free consultant for things. I’d love to help everyone but it would take away all my time and I need at least 40-60 of those weekly waking hours to make money and help care for my family. 

I’ll try to check today when I can. Usually any question people have for me can be found freely on AVS with a judicious search.


----------



## Dave Harper

Vladimirovich said:


> The optical block can lead to a difference in contrast, but cannot increase it by 5 times ...
> The 0.47 chip does not exceed the native contrast ratio of 700:1.
> The 0.66 chip, which has the same density of mirrors, does not exceed 1000:1, for example, Benq HT9060, there is an outstanding lens and despite this, only 1000:1 and 4000:1 dynamic.
> Your measurements and measurements of other users, this is an on\off measurement.
> When displaying a black field, no one prevents the manufacturer from manipulating the light source or blocking the light flux mechanically.
> Take a measurement with 1% or 2% white on the screen, this will answer this question.
> 
> Sincerely.


I’m sure it’s a special technique being used. A similar case (but not identical Technology I am sure) would be the dual modulation of 6 DLP DMDs in the Christie Eclipse projector. I am pretty sure the “native contrast” of those DMDs aren’t the virtually infinite contrast that you can measure on screen after their proprietary technologies are applied internally in the projector, but whatever it’s doing, they consider it “native contrast”, not dynamic.


----------



## zunebug9211

Is it possible to turn off the front LED lights on the projector. They can be very distracting. Do they serve a purpose?


----------



## Ricoflashback

zunebug9211 said:


> Is it possible to turn off the front LED lights on the projector. They can be very distracting. Do they serve a purpose?


I think Brian covered this before. It has to do with the microphone switch on the right side. Toggle it back and forth and I believe the light will go out.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> I’m sure it’s a special technique being used. A similar case (but not identical Technology I am sure) would be the dual modulation of 6 DLP DMDs in the Christie Eclipse projector. I am pretty sure the “native contrast” of those DMDs aren’t the virtually infinite contrast that you can measure on screen after their proprietary technologies are applied internally in the projector, but whatever it’s doing, they consider it “native contrast”, not dynamic.


How can you compare 1DLP with the understandable technology used in the Christie Eclipse, where 3 chips are responsible for increasing the contrast?
If in the case of the Formovie Theater a second chip was used to increase the contrast, then I would agree with you.
And so we just have a slightly different light source, which, as stated, increases the native contrast of the chip by 5 times (!!!). This is from the realm of fantasy.
It surprises me that no one has measured 1% or 2% white, but they say that the contrast is native!
Based on what?

Sincerely.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Vladimirovich said:


> How can you compare 1DLP with the understandable technology used in the Christie Eclipse, where 3 chips are responsible for increasing the contrast?
> If in the case of the Formovie Theater a second chip was used to increase the contrast, then I would agree with you.
> And so we just have a slightly different light source, which, as stated, increases the native contrast of the chip by 5 times (!!!). This is from the realm of fantasy.
> It surprises me that no one has measured 1% or 2% white, but they say that the contrast is native!
> Based on what?
> 
> Sincerely.


Dr. Vladimirovich - - I'm having a hard time understanding what your point is. That the black level measured by Kraine is incorrect? The Formovie Global Theater T1 is fantasy? The same for the ALPD technology? I'm glad I don't have to go into the weeds on this discussion as I'm enjoying the hell out of my GT1 and it's incredible black level and colors.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Ricoflashback said:


> Dr. Vladimirovich - - I'm having a hard time understanding what your point is. That the black level measured by Kraine is incorrect? The Formovie Global Theater T1 is fantasy? The same for the ALPD technology?


What I'm talking about is that the 0.47" chip installed in this projector basically has a native in the region of 500-700:1, and suddenly when using an ALPD 4.0 light source, the native contrast increased by 5 times! This is confirmed by the results of measuring the on \ off contrast, when measuring which manipulations with a completely black screen are possible.



Ricoflashback said:


> I'm glad I don't have to go into the weeds on this discussion as I'm enjoying the hell out of my GT1 and it's incredible black level and colors.


So this is very good! I'm really glad you're enjoying this projector! I'm not saying that the projector is bad! I'm saying that 3500:1 contrast metering looks weird and more like dynamic!
Unfortunately, so far I have only received an indistinct answer about unchanging power and a link to a technology in which 3 additional chips are used to increase the contrast ...

Sincerely.


----------



## Dave Harper

Vladimirovich said:


> How can you compare 1DLP with the understandable technology used in the Christie Eclipse, where 3 chips are responsible for increasing the contrast?
> If in the case of the Formovie Theater a second chip was used to increase the contrast, then I would agree with you.
> And so we just have a slightly different light source, which, as stated, increases the native contrast of the chip by 5 times (!!!). This is from the realm of fantasy.
> It surprises me that no one has measured 1% or 2% white, but they say that the contrast is native!
> Based on what?
> 
> Sincerely.


Wow that went right over your head.


----------



## kraine

Hi Dave 

This good man who doesn't measure anything at all has gone on my ignore list, it's easier than trying to explain it to him. No time to lose with this type of individual.


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> This good man who doesn't measure anything at all has gone on my ignore list, it's easier than trying to explain it to him. No time to lose with this type of individual.


If I were you, I would not be so categorical in relation to other people about whom you know nothing ...
It was easy to search through my messages, there are not so many of them to understand what, with what and how I measure ...
You never received a clear answer why you consider this contrast to be native ...

I think I quite correctly and politely asked the question and explained why.

Sincerely.


----------



## Formovie Official

mirzank said:


> I'd actually already volunteered and added my two cents about the common issues i've noticed, hoping the @Formovie Official team would take note (and these issues were top of mind at the time for me because they are also issues I face):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie? Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically the issues are:
> 
> 1) *remote losing connection*, and then not reconnecting even pressing home and back key as indicated on screen. Even restarting PJ, or unplugging from power doesnt reconnect remote. only way to do it is either to use the google tv app to manually pair (which is impossible if wifi doesnt connect) or use a usb mouse.
> 
> 2) *Wifi not connecting*, until you power unplug and replug the PJ. If wifi doesnt connect and remote doesnt connect, this basically is a terrible combination as you cant go into the remote menu by using the google tv app to pair the remote again manually.
> 
> Additionally here are the issues that keep coming up for others:
> 
> 3) *HDMI handshake* fails and falls back to hdmi 1.4. This issue more commonly occurs if you set hdmi to auto, and if you set it to 2.1 it happens less, but still happens.
> 
> 4) *PJ not fully focused*, even though some users have achieved success by opening up the PJ and adjusting the ring manually. Im not an engineer but i suspect this is more of a hardware fix and not something formovie can fix with software.
> 
> 5) Some users having issues with *soundbars connected to earc port* with no sound (I havent experienced this with sonos arc)
> 
> 6) *USB port can only read FAT formatted drives,* which basically makes it useless for 1080p or 4k files. Not sure if this is a hardware limitation or software
> 
> 7) Theres also an issue that kept coming up recently ( I went back 10-15 pages but couldnt find the posts), where some users have *lines or blobs appear on screen*, but they go away once you factory reset the PJ.
> 
> *There are also some other questions that keep coming up that would be good to answer: *
> 
> 8) We should get some clarity on w*hether this PJ is HDR10+ capable* or not. while the specs say its HDR10+, i believe Kraine has reported it is not (just going off the top of my head, maybe it was someone else)
> 
> 9) On *apple tv if you set it to 4k Dolby vision*, the colours are washed out, and if you set it to 4k SDR the colours seem better. So most of us with Apple TV are using it in SDR. not sure if this is a PJ issue or apple tv
> 
> 10) Are there any plans to* implement dynamic laser dimmin*g (not sure if this is possible with current hardware)
> 
> I'd propose if anybody else wants to add issues to the list or provide details on a specific issue, *reply to this post*. That way atleast the formovie team may be able to keep track of the issues in an ongoing thread.


Hi guys, this is Formovie Product Center, glad you guys are willing to share with us about the issues you're having, and then I will answer the questions you mentioned:

Question 1) and 2) are problems that have been discovered and have solutions, these two problems will no longer exist in the next software version. (The new software version will be launched in January-February 2023 and will be available for OTA downloads and updates.)

Question 3): Could you please provide a more specific usage scenario? Our engineers would like a clearer description of this issue.

Question 4): This situation should be a hardware failure, we recommend that you replace the product, and then we will analyze and repair the faulty product.

Question 5): We connected SONOS ARC to our product for testing and everything works fine, so we think it may be a problem caused by wrong operation. You can try the following two methods:
a): Connect the sound bar to HDMI3 port, our earc port is HDMI3 port;
b): Set the eARC output to "auto" in the settings.

Question 6): Now our hardware provider does not have the copyright of NTFS. According to your feedback, we have submitted an application to our partners to support NTFS. Please pay attention to our version update.

Question 7): Can you provide a video about this issue? Too simple description cannot help us get clear information.

Question 8): We only support HDR10+ decoding, you can use Dolby Vision to enhance the viewing experience.

Question 9): You can set EDID to 2.1, this problem should be solved.

Question 10): “Dynamic laser dimming” is currently not planned for this product, but our engineers are already working on this, so maybe our follow-up products will support.

The above are the answers to these questions, and some of them need to provide more detailed instructions, pictures or videos to help us better solve the problem.
Thank you all!!


----------



## kraine

Hi Formovie, 

For the question 8 : The correct answer is the Formovie Theater only support HDR-10 and Dolby Vision (HDR-10+ is not supported).


----------



## ice2hot

gymnos said:


> I have noticed that USB ports only support FAT32, if you try with NTFS the projector formats the disk without any prompt and you lose every file.
> 
> It doesn´t make sense!!
> 
> View attachment 3364155


I raised this point with formovie and this is their response. Small thing but its plays a big impact in terms of forcing people to buy media players for playing external media files above 4GB,


----------



## JereyWolf

Formovie Official said:


> Hi guys, this is Formovie Product Center, glad you guys are willing to share with us about the issues you're having, and then I will answer the questions you mentioned:
> 
> Question 3): Could you please provide a more specific usage scenario? Our engineers would like a clearer description of this issue.


In my experience the HDMI handshake issue goes like this. 
Signal chain is: Source device > Receiver > Projector

After startup, the projector is displaying a 1080p/60hz signal, (as though the bandwidth is limited to HDMI 1.4 even though I have 2.1 selected on the projector).
I then toggle the projector's HDMI setting to HDMI 2.0 and the signal refreshes. 
Now it displays a 4k/60hz signal.

This happens on my Fengmi T1 (not global version) more than 50% of the time that I turn it on.


----------



## rjyap

Formovie Official said:


> Question 3): Could you please provide a more specific usage scenario? Our engineers would like a clearer description of this issue.


I found a way to trigger handshake issue. Every time if I switch to game mode on T1 and after finish gaming, switching back to custom. Then shutdown the projector and the next boot up, the HDMI protocol will fallback to 1.4 although in the menu still showing 2.1. The only way to switch back to 2.1 is select other HDMI version then switch back to 2.1.


----------



## fancyclown

rjyap said:


> I found a way to trigger handshake issue. Every time if I switch to game mode on T1 and after finish gaming, switching back to custom. Then shutdown the projector and the next boot up, the HDMI protocol will fallback to 1.4 although in the menu still showing 2.1. The only way to switch back to 2.1 is select other HDMI version then switch back to 2.1.


+1 

Happens all the time


----------



## RickMes

Formovie Official said:


> Question 4): This situation should be a hardware failure, we recommend that you replace the product, and then we will analyze and repair the faulty product.


Hello Formovie! 

First, I would like to thank Formovie for your Theater support, specially here on this forum. Your help solving these issues are very, very welcome.

The only issue that I seem to have is the focus one. Although I barely notice this issue since I am using a 90" screen, the upper corners (specially the left one) are never as focused as the bottom ones. But I will move the projector away from the wall and better analyse this issue with a bigger projection.

So, anyone having this issue should send the projector back and wait for it to be repaired and get it back? And how long will people be without a projector?

Having bought the projector directly from formovie.com during it's super early-bird campaign this is not a very costumer-friendly solution as the user will be left without a projection system for a long time for what seems to have been a QC issue in the first place (as too many people are having this focus issue).

Thanks again!


----------



## codigitoss

kraine said:


> With APLD the contrast is native, there is no subterfuge with the dynamic management of the laser. The secret of these excellent results (which are verified from one model to another) is contained in the design of the optical block of these UST laser models.


Appotronics has mentioned that high contrast is in part due Due to the small illumination angle of the ALPD light source, the DMD's reflected light cone angle is also smaller, which allows the use of large F-number lenses as projector lenses, further reducing the potential for stray light interference. The laser projection uses a large F-number lens, and a large F-number lens reduces light leakage in the Off state, resulting in high contrast. (and of course.. other patented secret sauce that they won't reveal that easy!)


----------



## mirzank

Formovie Official said:


> Hi guys, this is Formovie Product Center, glad you guys are willing to share with us about the issues you're having, and then I will answer the questions you mentioned:
> 
> Question 1) and 2) are problems that have been discovered and have solutions, these two problems will no longer exist in the next version. (The new version will be launched in January-February 2023)
> Question 8): We only support HDR10+ decoding, you can use Dolby Vision to enhance the viewing experience.
> 
> Question 9): You can set EDID to 2.1, this problem should be solved.


@Formovie Official thank you so much for the responses! Just some follow up comments/responses.
1 and 2 (wifi issue plus remote issue): by new version I hope you mean new software/firmware version not a brand new product (formovie theatre 2)?

8) only supporting hdr 10+ decoding and not hdr.

Basically this means you only support DV. I would suggest being more transparent in your advertising/box labelling. A lot of the Chinese projector manufacturers, despite the amazing video quality compared to well known brands, get a bad reputation because so many products are mislabelled/misadvertised just throwing around random marketing terms.

If you want to build long term brand loyalty I’d suggest more transparency and accuracy in advertising. I’d still have bought this projector even if it only had DV and not HDR 10+, but if I feel a company misled me (even on a feature I don’t use), next time I’d be more careful buying/researching. That’s not how to build brand loyalty.

You have an amazing product so let the quality speak for itself.

considering HDR 10+ has no licensing fee, why not implement HDR 10+ since the hardware is clearly capable as it supports DV?

9) washed out colours on Apple TV 4K DV setting: you suggest setting edid to 2.1. Edid is already set to 2.1. Can any of the other users that are more technically savvy maybe detail what the issue is here, if there is an issue at all. Maybe @kraine @Ricoflashback not sure if any of you had this issue I think one of you had also discussed this.


----------



## DesertDog

Formovie Official said:


> Hi guys, this is Formovie Product Center, glad you guys are willing to share with us about the issues you're having, and then I will answer the questions you mentioned:
> 
> Question 1) and 2) are problems that have been discovered and have solutions, these two problems will no longer exist in the next version. (The new version will be launched in January-February 2023)
> 
> Question 7): Can you provide a video about this issue? Too simple description cannot help us get clear information.


Hi, thanks for getting back to use. For question 1 when you say new version will be launched in 2023 do you mean a new version of the hardware or a new firmware for the projectors. I just want to double check since it was a little ambiguous. 

For question 7, a few of us were getting either hot spot or dark spots in the image while watching something. It usually happened randomly during a viewing session. At one point I was thinking it might be a scaling issue since YouTube and non-4k material seemed to trigger it. I did get it once with a 4k DV video though. Pictures attached. 

It looks like the issue is in the firmware and not hardware related. Switching modes from "movie" to "sport" and back again clears up the image. Video attached of it. So there was at least an easy work around. (at tim

Further it looks like doing a factory reset on the projector fixes it. Myself and at least one other user are at about a month now since we did the reset and it hasn't occurred again. Prior to the reset it was happening to me a few times a day.


----------



## Formovie Official

mirzank said:


> 现实也上，我已经自愿加入了关于我注意到的常见问题的两分钱，希望@Formovie Official团会注意（对于这些问题的问题，当我当当我是卑临的问题）：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater - Enhanced Global / International...
> 
> 
> Top is 50% BT2020. Bottom sweep is P3 in 2020. Shoot me a PM. Where did you buy your ForMovie? Thank you Dave. Sent you a message! Appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 基础上的问题是：
> 
> 1）*远程连接*，然后即使屏幕上和返回键也没有重新连接。。即使即使即使重新启动启动启动启动启动启动启动启动启动启动或或或或或拔掉拔掉电源电源也也不会重新重新重新连接连接连接遥控器遥控器遥控器。唯一唯一的的的的方法方法如果 wifi 未连接，这是不可能的）或使用 usb 鼠标。
> 
> 2）*wifi无法连接*，pj重新并并并并并电源。如果如果。。未未连接且遥控器未连接连接连接连接连接连接未未未未未遥控器遥控器遥控器遥控器未这这基本上基本上是糟糕糟糕远程菜单。
> 
> 除此之外，还有其他人没有遇到的问题：
> 
> 3) *HDMI 握手*失败并退回hdmi 1.4。如果将hdmi设置为自动，则此问题更常发生，如果将其设置为2.1，则发生的次数会比较少，但。
> 
> 4）*pj没有聚焦*，pj用户通过打开并手动调整了了。不不是是工程师，但工程师工程师工程师工程师工程师但但
> 
> 5)一些用户遇到*连接到earc端口*的条形箱没有声音的问题（我在sonos arc上没有遇到过这种情况）
> 
> 6）*USB口只能读取FAT格式的硬盘，*对于1080p或者4k的文件基本不用。不确定这是硬件限制还是软件
> 
> 7）最近最近个问题不断不断出现（（我我10-15页，（10-15），但帖子帖子帖子*帖子*帖子）
> 
> *还有其他一些问题没有出现，最好回答下： *
> 
> 8) 我们应该弄清楚*这款 PJ 是否支持 HDR10+*。虽然规格上说它是 HDR10+，但我相信 Kraine 报告说它不是（我只是想不通，也许是其他人）
> 
> 9) 在*apple tv上，如果将其设置为4k Dolby vision*，颜色会艳色，如果将其设置为4k SDR，颜色看起来起来会更好。所以我们大部分使用Apple TV的人都使用SDR 。不确定这是PJ 问题还是apple tv
> 
> 10) 是否有实际应用状态激发* 光调光*的计划（不确定当前硬物是否可行）
> 
> 我建议想要将问题添加到中或的详细信息信息信息信息，请请信息信息，请请请请请请请请*回复回复回复*帖子帖子。。这样这样至少
> [/引用]





DesertDog said:


> 您好，感谢您恢复使用。对于问题 1，当您说新版本将在 2023 年推出时，您是指硬件的新版本还是投影仪的新固件。我只是想仔细检查一下，因为它有点模棱两可。
> 
> 对于问题 7，我们中的一些人在观看某些内容时发现图像中出现热点或暗点。它通常在观看会话期间随机发生。有一次我认为这可能是一个缩放问题，因为 YouTube 和非 4k 材料似乎会触发它。不过我确实用 4k DV 视频得到过一次。附上图片。
> 
> 看起来问题出在固件中，与硬件无关。将模式从“电影”切换到“运动”并再次切换回来可以清除图像。附上视频。所以至少有一个简单的解决方法。（当时
> 
> 此外，看起来在投影仪上恢复出厂设置可以修复它。自从我们进行重置以来，我自己和至少一个其他用户现在已经大约一个月了，并且没有再次发生。在重置之前，它每天发生在我身上几次。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3372913
> View attachment 3372914
> 
> [/引用]
> Hello, dear customers, I'm sorry for confusing you because of my unclear expression.
> The new version of question1 means new software version, we will solve the problems by OTA upgrade.
> 
> About question7, may I ask if you can also see this phenomenon in the system settings page?
> 
> Best regards,


----------



## DesertDog

Formovie Official said:


> Hello, dear customers, I'm sorry for confusing you because of my unclear expression.
> The new version of question1 means new software version, we will solve the problems by OTA upgrade.
> 
> About question7, may I ask if you can also see this phenomenon in the system settings page?


Ok, cool. I hoped, and thought, that that's what you meant with 1. Good to hear that there are updates in the works. 

For 7, I'm not sure what you're asking with if it could be seen in the system settings page. When it would occur it was always on screen like in the video and pictures no matter what I was viewing. The only two things that I found to clear it when it happened was switching the picture mode like in the video or by turning the projector off and then back on. Going between any of the different settings screens didn't clear it and if I remember correctly even changing the brightness and contrast settings did not clear it. It needed the picture mode change. 

Please let me know if there's anything else I can answer on it. 

Thanks!


----------



## Vladimirovich

codigitoss said:


> Appotronics has mentioned that high contrast is in part due Due to the small illumination angle of the ALPD light source, the DMD's reflected light cone angle is also smaller, which allows the use of large F-number lenses as projector lenses, further reducing the potential for stray light interference. The laser projection uses a large F-number lens, and a large F-number lens reduces light leakage in the Off state, resulting in high contrast. (and of course.. other patented secret sauce that they won't reveal that easy!)


The quality of the lens and reflections within it can affect ANSI contrast. The on/off contrast is mainly influenced by the DMD chip.
Just enough to measure the contrast on the pattern with 1% or 2% white and everything will become clear.

Sincerely.


----------



## Dave Harper

codigitoss said:


> Appotronics has mentioned that high contrast is in part due Due to the small illumination angle of the ALPD light source, the DMD's reflected light cone angle is also smaller, which allows the use of large F-number lenses as projector lenses, further reducing the potential for stray light interference. The laser projection uses a large F-number lens, and a large F-number lens reduces light leakage in the Off state, resulting in high contrast. (and of course.. other patented secret sauce that they won't reveal that easy!)





Vladimirovich said:


> The quality of the lens and reflections within it can affect ANSI contrast. The on/off contrast is mainly influenced by the DMD chip.
> Just enough to measure the contrast on the pattern with 1% or 2% white and everything will become clear.
> 
> Sincerely.


It seems that’s only part of the equation, along with light cone angles, that we are allowed to know. 

Also, did you read this:


Formovie Official said:


> Question 10): *“Dynamic laser dimming” is currently not planned for this product, *but our engineers are already working on this, so maybe our follow-up products will support.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> Also, did you read this:


Manufacturers routinely quote contrast figures that are unattainable with their products in the real world. Or brightness values that are achievable in non-working modes.
Please understand, I am not blaming anyone for anything, I had a simple question - on what basis was such a conclusion made?
I realized for myself that no measurements other than on \ off were made.
Then I was offered to take a word and sent to the ban!
It's very professional...

Sincerely.


----------



## Jimmy22

Vladimirovich said:


> Manufacturers routinely quote contrast figures that are unattainable with their products in the real world. Or brightness values that are achievable in non-working modes.
> Please understand, I am not blaming anyone for anything, I had a simple question - on what basis was such a conclusion made?
> I realized for myself that no measurements other than on \ off were made.
> Then I was offered to take a word and sent to the ban!
> It's very professional...
> 
> Sincerely.


When I get my unit I will try to measure with 1 and 2% White so we know if the contrast value of about 3000:1 is true or not.


----------



## ice2hot

Other than the issues that everyone is facing with the unit is the Proper Calibrated settings for SDR HDR10 HLG & DV along with the 11 point correction which an upscale the viewing experience. 
This should be taken into consideration the optimal viewing experience for projectors which are dark room with an ALR screen in mind,. 
If possible different CMS settings for ceiling light being on with an ALR screen as well. Dont really know for sure if projector screen has shared those settings with their formovie users.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Jimmy22 said:


> When I get my unit I will try to measure with 1 and 2% White so we know if the contrast value of about 3000:1 is true or not.


Excellent, inform about the results, it's interesting!


----------



## Jimmy22

Vladimirovich said:


> Excellent, inform about the results, it's interesting!


I will also try to measure the Ansi contrast, which is also very interesting.

Measuring Ansi contrast is not easy, but I have the idea to paint a piece of gypsum board with Musou Black (darkest black paint in the world as far as I know) and then measure it in a darkened room without any light pollution. The advantage of this method is, that the Ansi contrast measurements shouldn't get affected by room reflections from the white walls. The projector in combination with the black board should then behave like a TV or Monitor.

I also will make the "testing screen" as small as possible, I think about 50 to 60 inches diagonal is as small as I can get with the projector, if I place it directly in front of the wall without any distance. Hopefully with the high light output of the projector of about 2000 Lumens (6500K calibrated) my spectrometer with its 2 degree lens will be sufficient to get correct black readings.

I ordered the projector from a shop called "nothingbutlabel" and the estimated delivery is about mid january, so about in 1 month.

I´m pretty exited, because I am curious what a DLP with (hopefully) 3000:1 contrast on a 0.5 Gain Epson CLR screen will look like in comparison to a JVC with a 1.0 Gain white screen in a living room with white walls. I have a JVC DLA-X3 here to compare, which has about 25000:1 calibrated native contrast. I will try to match the white level brightness of the projectors and then view them side by side to get a good comparison. In mixed scenes I think the DLP will pop more, but dark scenes are very interesting.
The advantage of the DLP is the 0.5 Gain CLR screen, which helps to maintain the black levels in low APL scenes.

High native contrast of the JVC, but low Ansi and a white screen vs "low" native contrast of the DLP, but with hopefully high Ansi contrast and a better screen.
Very exciting to see in direct comparion  In very dark scenes the JVC should still have a pretty big advantage, but how big will be interesting.


----------



## Dave Harper

Vladimirovich said:


> Manufacturers routinely quote contrast figures that are unattainable with their products in the real world. Or brightness values that are achievable in non-working modes.
> Please understand, I am not blaming anyone for anything, I had a simple question - on what basis was such a conclusion made?
> I realized for myself that no measurements other than on \ off were made.
> Then I was offered to take a word and sent to the ban!
> It's very professional...
> 
> Sincerely.





Jimmy22 said:


> When I get my unit I will try to measure with 1 and 2% White so we know if the contrast value of about 3000:1 is true or not.


I think you’re missing the point of my post. They said they don’t use any dynamic laser dimming, so how could the contrast then be _dynamic_ contrast? They don’t have a dynamic iris either. 

To your point though it could be manufacturer marketing BS that they don’t, but what is the benefit of that?



Jimmy22 said:


> I will also try to measure the Ansi contrast, which is also very interesting.
> 
> Measuring Ansi contrast is not easy, but I have the idea to paint a piece of gypsum board with Musou Black (darkest black paint in the world as far as I know) and then measure it in a darkened room without any light pollution. The advantage of this method is, that the Ansi contrast measurements shouldn't get affected by room reflections from the white walls. The projector in combination with the black board should then behave like a TV or Monitor.
> 
> I also will make the "testing screen" as small as possible, I think about 50 to 60 inches diagonal is as small as I can get with the projector, if I place it directly in front of the wall without any distance. Hopefully with the high light output of the projector of about 2000 Lumens (6500K calibrated) my spectrometer with its 2 degree lens will be sufficient to get correct black readings.


Have fun trying to get a real and accurate ANSI contrast reading on these USTs. The extreme angles of the light make it near impossible to get accurate readings in each zone of the screen. If you move your hand/meter a centimeter in, out up, down, left or right the readings vary wildly. Making the image smaller will make it even worse.


----------



## Jimmy22

@ Dave Harper

I don't doubt that the projector does not have dimming, the measurements are only for fun. I personally believe that the 3000:1 is native without any tricks.

I have this handheld spectrometer with a laser pointer which can aim at very small parts of the screen from a distance:

OHSP-350L Spekraler Strahlung-Helligkeitsmesser






Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Ohsp350l 380-780nm Hopoocolor - Buy Spectrometer,Spectrometer Luminance,Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Product on Alibaba.com


Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Ohsp350l 380-780nm Hopoocolor - Buy Spectrometer,Spectrometer Luminance,Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Product on Alibaba.com



www.alibaba.com





Don't you think it will be possible to measure from a meter away?
The lens of the spectro has an angle of 2 degrees, which should result in a measurement area of about 3 cm when measured from a distance of 1 meter away from the screen. The Ansi contrast test pattern has 4 rectangles horizontally and 4 vertically, which are much bigger than 3 cm on a 50 or 60 inch screen. It might be that I am missing something else, I don't have any previous experience with UST projectors and this is all speculative what I am writing here.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> I think you’re missing the point of my post. They said they don’t use any dynamic laser dimming, so how could the contrast then be _dynamic_ contrast? They don’t have a dynamic iris either.


The ALPD 4.0 device assumes the presence of RGB LEDs and one laser working through a lbminophore wheel to increase the light output. What prevents the manufacturer from turning off / dimming this laser when outputting a black field or in very dark scenes? I would do that, laser dimming makes the product better, but it's not the same as native.


----------



## Dave Harper

Jimmy22 said:


> @ Dave Harper
> 
> I don't doubt that the projector does not have dimming, the measurements are only for fun. I personally believe that the 3000:1 is native without any tricks.
> 
> I have this handheld spectrometer with a laser pointer which can aim at very small parts of the screen from a distance:
> 
> OHSP-350L Spekraler Strahlung-Helligkeitsmesser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Ohsp350l 380-780nm Hopoocolor - Buy Spectrometer,Spectrometer Luminance,Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> 
> Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Ohsp350l 380-780nm Hopoocolor - Buy Spectrometer,Spectrometer Luminance,Spectrometer Luminance Cd/m2 Nits Meter Product on Alibaba.com
> 
> 
> 
> www.alibaba.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you think it will be possible to measure from a meter away?
> The lens of the spectro has an angle of 2 degrees, which should result in a measurement area of about 3 cm when measured from a distance of 1 meter away from the screen. The Ansi contrast test pattern has 4 rectangles horizontally and 4 vertically, which are much bigger than 3 cm on a 50 or 60 inch screen. It might be that I am missing something else, I don't have any previous experience with UST projectors and this is all speculative what I am writing here.


That sounds like a nice meter and could very well work nicely the way you described. 

It seems better than my handheld way of doing it with a light meter. Please report your results. 



Vladimirovich said:


> The ALPD 4.0 device assumes the presence of RGB LEDs and one laser working through a lbminophore wheel to increase the light output. What prevents the manufacturer from turning off / dimming this laser when outputting a black field or in very dark scenes? I would do that, laser dimming makes the product better, but it's not the same as native.


Because they said they don’t do laser dimming. But they said they’re looking into it for the next generation.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> Because they said they don’t do laser dimming. But they said they’re looking into it for the next generation.


The manufacturer tells you about a native contrast of 120,000:1 when measured it is 20,000:1, do you believe the manufacturer or the instrument readings?

I am not saying that there is no native at 3500:1, I am saying that it is strange that the 0.47-inch chip, which, according to the measurements of a huge number of projectors, did not exceed the native at 700:1, suddenly showed a result of 3500:1.
Another thing surprises me that the person who had him on the test did nothing to understand whether it was a native or a manufacturer's trick! There are many ways to do this. Instead, he received an uncomfortable question, took offense like a schoolboy and sent me to the ban!

Sincerely.


----------



## ice2hot

@Dave Harper would it be possible for you to please share the complete CMS settings for HDR SDR HLG dolby vision settings along with 11 point correction for a dark room keeping into consideration alr screen with .6 gain 120 inch. This will help everyone alot. Highly appreciate your kind support in advance.


----------



## Joered101

I really want to be able to play some Dolby vision downloads from my pc. But obviously can’t through pc. How can I get them onto the projector to play in Dolby Vision? I tried putting on hard drive but FAT32 only allows 4gb which is way too small….. is there any way someone can think of?


----------



## ice2hot

Joered101 said:


> I really want to be able to play some Dolby vision downloads from my pc. But obviously can’t through pc. How can I get them onto the projector to play in Dolby Vision? I tried putting on hard drive but FAT32 only allows 4gb which is way too small….. is there any way someone can think of?


Download pkex media server on your pc. Add your files on the Plex media server. Download the app from play store in projector and than you can play them from the projector. Another option. Is nvidia shield and connect on projector and play


----------



## Joered101

ice2hot said:


> Download pkex media server on your pc. Add your files on the Plex media server. Download the app from play store in projector and than you can play them from the projector. Another option. Is nvidia shield and connect on projector and play


Thank you! Would plex play a Dolby vision file as well? And convert the projector to Dolby vision mode? Good shout though will give it a go.
Also though shield, which one do I need to output in Dolby vision? And I can plug a hard drive into that and play from it? That ISNT FAT32 preventing me from putting big files? Cheers for the tips


----------



## ice2hot

Yes if the format is Dolby vision yes it will support and play. I tried it and it worked. For shield it supports ntfs so it will transfer the data to the projector to play it. One challenge about shield I heard it doesn’t support hdr10+. Ape tv new gen 4K does but no usb. You will need to combine with Plex.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ProjectorCentral just published their review of the Formovie Theater: 









Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review


The Formovie Theater, the triple-laser winner of the ProjectorCentral 2022 Laser TV Showdown, is packed full of features and offers excellent image and sound quality for its $2,999 asking price.



www.projectorcentral.com


----------



## ProjectionHead

Vladimirovich said:


> The manufacturer tells you about a native contrast of 120,000:1 when measured it is 20,000:1, do you believe the manufacturer or the instrument readings?


Which manufacturer is this?


----------



## ice2hot

ProjectionHead said:


> ProjectorCentral just published their review of the Formovie Theater:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review
> 
> 
> The Formovie Theater, the triple-laser winner of the ProjectorCentral 2022 Laser TV Showdown, is packed full of features and offers excellent image and sound quality for its $2,999 asking price.
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorcentral.com


Wow thank you. Really appreciate it. I do apologize for being a noob when it comes to calibration but in order to proffesionally have it calibrated does formovie ha e options where calman can transfer settings to formovie and calibrate. If yes how can I get it done. Do I need to send in my unit for it or the settings shown will work without this process. Thank you


----------



## rooterha

ProjectionHead said:


> ProjectorCentral just published their review of the Formovie Theater:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review
> 
> 
> The Formovie Theater, the triple-laser winner of the ProjectorCentral 2022 Laser TV Showdown, is packed full of features and offers excellent image and sound quality for its $2,999 asking price.
> 
> 
> 
> www.projectorcentral.com


Solid review. Covers the pros and cons pretty well.


----------



## Ricoflashback

rooterha said:


> Solid review. Covers the pros and cons pretty well.


Absolute “Nothing Burger” of a review failing to highlight the incredible black levels, contrast and colors of the Formovie GT1. Endless droning on about ALLM and a boatload of features and supposed issues that I could care less about. I exclusively stream and for those of us who do, the expanded movie Blu-ray reviews are of little consequence.

I‘m sorry but IMHO, this is one of the worst ProjectorCentral reviews I’ve ever seen.


----------



## ProjectionHead

ice2hot said:


> Wow thank you. Really appreciate it. I do apologize for being a noob when it comes to calibration but in order to proffesionally have it calibrated does formovie ha e options where calman can transfer settings to formovie and calibrate. If yes how can I get it done. Do I need to send in my unit for it or the settings shown will work without this process. Thank you


To have it professionally calibrated, whomever is doing it would need the actual unit in hand and the proper gear. While not truly calibrated per se since there variations between units; the settings offered in ProjectorCentral’s review may be a good starting point to optimize the image.
Sammy Prescott JR. (the reviewer) is quite and experienced and accomplished calibrator.


----------



## ice2hot

Thanks @ProjectionHead that’s what I was afraid of. Matter is I live in dubai and one of my friends bought the unit from you guys and sent it across. Any chance of a projector central team in dubai to help out by any means or if I should get it Calibrated locally where And with whom to get it from. Thank you for your support


----------



## ProjectionHead

ice2hot said:


> Thanks @ProjectionHead that’s what I was afraid of. Matter is I live in dubai and one of my friends bought the unit from you guys and sent it across. Any chance of a projector central team in dubai to help out by any means or if I should get it Calibrated locally where And with whom to get it from. Thank you for your support


you have a really nice friend 

start by trying out the settings from this review: Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

Having the hardest time getting the Formovie settings that I'm happy with. Messing with a VROOM, and ending up with very "burnt" looking colors.

















Can anyone help me understand why calibration settings like those from ProjectorCentral's review always go for a "warm" balance? It seems totally counter-intuitive to me, because shouldn't the goal be to make any white text, neutral white? It throws my whole ATV4K interface into yellow. Don't understand the way that works.


----------



## g3m

Kyle Gallagher said:


> Having the hardest time getting the Formovie settings that I'm happy with. Messing with a VROOM, and ending up with very "burnt" looking colors.
> 
> View attachment 3374407
> 
> 
> View attachment 3374406
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me understand why calibration settings like those from ProjectorCentral's review always go for a "warm" balance? It seems totally counter-intuitive to me, because shouldn't the goal be to make any white text, neutral white? It throws my whole ATV4K interface into yellow. Don't understand the way that works.


I tried these settings and didn't find them satisfying on my setup. Like any calibration settings, they are dependent on multiple factors such as the screen, projector manufacturing variations, ambient light, etc. The settings that are working well on my projector + ATV4K forced LLDV (with HDFury Arcana) are these HDR10 settings from Chris Eberle's review on Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com (scroll down in the comments section).



Code:


HDR settings:
Movie HDR10
Color Temp Warm
Hue
R 50
G 50
B 50
C 60
M 43
Y 50
Sat & Brt all 50
Offset all 50
Rgain 49
Ggain 62
Bgain 42
11 Point
50 R47 G51 B47
60 R45 G52 B46

Note that he is suggesting the "Movie HDR10" picture preset as a starting point. If you want to avoid altering the "Movie HDR10" preset, you can use the "User HDR10" preset instead. Just don't forget to copy the movie presets settings in there before applying the suggested calibration settings (e.g, lowering saturation to 40 instead of the default 50).

For the brightness and contrast values, I use test patterns to adjust. Patterns will allow you to tweak your DVmax lum values for LLDV to get the best white and black clipping values. For Adaptive Luma Control, I currently use "Low" (improved perceived contrasts while keeping details in blacks) but I was using "High" before (less details in blacks, but better perceived contrast). For local contrast control, low or middle.

Good luck and report your results and preferred settings if you can!


----------



## manageablebits

Anyone having issues with connecting a PC? Maybe same situation with a console too. I use an HDMI switcher so my Apple TV and PC both go in to the projector on the same cable. If I try to switch to the PC the projector just says no signal, until I restart the PC and try again. Maybe it just doesn't work well with a switcher? That wont be great as I also want to send my Nintendo to it etc. ALLM doesn't seem to work for me, not sure if I have to configure something on the PC side for that.


----------



## JackB

g3m said:


> I tried these settings and didn't find them satisfying on my setup. Like any calibration settings, they are dependent on multiple factors such as the screen, projector manufacturing variations, ambient light, etc. The settings that are working well on my projector + ATV4K forced LLDV (with HDFury Arcana) are these HDR10 settings from Chris Eberle's review on Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com (scroll down in the comments section).
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> HDR settings:
> Movie HDR10
> Color Temp Warm
> Hue
> R 50
> G 50
> B 50
> C 60
> M 43
> Y 50
> Sat & Brt all 50
> Offset all 50
> Rgain 49
> Ggain 62
> Bgain 42
> 11 Point
> 50 R47 G51 B47
> 60 R45 G52 B46
> 
> Note that he is suggesting the "Movie HDR10" picture preset as a starting point. If you want to avoid altering the "Movie HDR10" preset, you can use the "User HDR10" preset instead. Just don't forget to copy the movie presets settings in there before applying the suggested calibration settings (e.g, lowering saturation to 40 instead of the default 50).
> 
> For the brightness and contrast values, I use test patterns to adjust. Patterns will allow you to tweak your DVmax lum values for LLDV to get the best white and black clipping values. For Adaptive Luma Control, I currently use "Low" (improved perceived contrasts while keeping details in blacks) but I was using "High" before (less details in blacks, but better perceived contrast). For local contrast control, low or middle.
> 
> Good luck and report your results and preferred settings if you can!


I too like Chris Eberle’s settings better.


----------



## rooterha

Did @Dave Harper ever finish detailing his super new trick to take this projector to the next level? I think I missed it if so.


----------



## ice2hot

Not yet. I think the secret sauce is in his signature. Right @Dave Harper


----------



## Kyle Gallagher

I still don't understand why anyone would go with Warm if the goal is neutral white.


----------



## Greg121986

Is it possible to use the ForMovie Theater with a regular projector screen material or is an ALR screen absolutely required? I am in a darkened basement room with full light control. I can only fit an 85" screen right now but I want to play around with the ForMovie Theater until I get into a new space where I can fit a proper 110"-120" screen. 

Is it reasonable to use a non ALR screen with the UST, or must you use ALR? I am OK with a compromise in picture. I just want something bigger than my 65" Samsung for now and I've been missing my Epson since I sold it a couple years ago. So basically, I want to cheap out on the most basic of screen for now until I can get a proper screen in a more permanent space. Will it work?


----------



## rooterha

Greg121986 said:


> Is it possible to use the ForMovie Theater with a regular projector screen material or is an ALR screen absolutely required? I am in a darkened basement room with full light control. I can only fit an 85" screen right now but I want to play around with the ForMovie Theater until I get into a new space where I can fit a proper 110"-120" screen.
> 
> Is it reasonable to use a non ALR screen with the UST, or must you use ALR? I am OK with a compromise in picture. I just want something bigger than my 65" Samsung for now and I've been missing my Epson since I sold it a couple years ago. So basically, I want to cheap out on the most basic of screen for now until I can get a proper screen in a more permanent space. Will it work?


Yes you can use it with a regular one. Lots of people have done so and posted beautiful pictures. If your room is blacked out it will look amazing.


----------



## ProjectionHead

l


Greg121986 said:


> Is it possible to use the ForMovie Theater with a regular projector screen material or is an ALR screen absolutely required? I am in a darkened basement room with full light control. I can only fit an 85" screen right now but I want to play around with the ForMovie Theater until I get into a new space where I can fit a proper 110"-120" screen.
> 
> Is it reasonable to use a non ALR screen with the UST, or must you use ALR? I am OK with a compromise in picture. I just want something bigger than my 65" Samsung for now and I've been missing my Epson since I sold it a couple years ago. So basically, I want to cheap out on the most basic of screen for now until I can get a proper screen in a more permanent space. Will it work?


Won’t need an ALR screen in a dedicated space but make sure it is tensioned (fixed frame or tab tensioned motorized) as a non tensioned surface will have ripples and waves accentuated by a UST


----------



## Dave Harper

Vladimirovich said:


> The manufacturer tells you about a native contrast of 120,000:1 when measured it is 20,000:1, do you believe the manufacturer or the instrument readings?
> 
> I am not saying that there is no native at 3500:1, I am saying that it is strange that the 0.47-inch chip, which, according to the measurements of a huge number of projectors, did not exceed the native at 700:1, suddenly showed a result of 3500:1.
> Another thing surprises me that the person who had him on the test did nothing to understand whether it was a native or a manufacturer's trick! There are many ways to do this. Instead, he received an uncomfortable question, took offense like a schoolboy and sent me to the ban!
> 
> Sincerely.





ProjectionHead said:


> Which manufacturer is this?


Yes but inflating contrast numbers is an advantage to the manufacturer to market that way. Saying a projector doesn’t have dynamic laser dimming when it actually does is a disadvantage and makes no sense, so why on earth would they do so in this instance?



ice2hot said:


> @Dave Harper would it be possible for you to please share the complete CMS settings for HDR SDR HLG dolby vision settings along with 11 point correction for a dark room keeping into consideration alr screen with .6 gain 120 inch. This will help everyone alot. Highly appreciate your kind support in advance.


Shoot me a PM and I’ll send some info. 



ice2hot said:


> Wow thank you. Really appreciate it. I do apologize for being a noob when it comes to calibration but in order to proffesionally have it calibrated does formovie ha e options where calman can transfer settings to formovie and calibrate. If yes how can I get it done. Do I need to send in my unit for it or the settings shown will work without this process. Thank you


No CalMAN can’t transfer settings, sorry. 



rooterha said:


> Did @Dave Harper ever finish detailing his super new trick to take this projector to the next level? I think I missed it if so.


Yes and I thought I out a link in this thread too. I know it’s in the main LLDV thread. I’ll see if I can find the link again. 



Kyle Gallagher said:


> I still don't understand why anyone would go with Warm if the goal is neutral white.


Because just about every single manufacturer engineers their displays and projectors to be very cool (blue) in their default OOTB state, usually the mode called “Standard”. Which should be the neutral setting. 

Since they do this, the only way to get the image close to what it should be in spec, which for video is D65, or 6500 Degrees Kelvin, is to place the display/projector into its Warm mode. 

In the case of the FMT projector that doesn’t even bring it fully into line and you have to go into the projectors white balance and color temperature settings with a meter to measure it and get it precisely at D65.


----------



## clipghost

Formovie Official said:


> Hi guys, this is Formovie Product Center, glad you guys are willing to share with us about the issues you're having, and then I will answer the questions you mentioned:
> 
> Question 1) and 2) are problems that have been discovered and have solutions, these two problems will no longer exist in the next software version. (The new software version will be launched in January-February 2023 and will be available for OTA downloads and updates.)
> 
> Question 3): Could you please provide a more specific usage scenario? Our engineers would like a clearer description of this issue.
> 
> Question 4): This situation should be a hardware failure, we recommend that you replace the product, and then we will analyze and repair the faulty product.
> 
> Question 5): We connected SONOS ARC to our product for testing and everything works fine, so we think it may be a problem caused by wrong operation. You can try the following two methods:
> a): Connect the sound bar to HDMI3 port, our earc port is HDMI3 port;
> b): Set the eARC output to "auto" in the settings.
> 
> Question 6): Now our hardware provider does not have the copyright of NTFS. According to your feedback, we have submitted an application to our partners to support NTFS. Please pay attention to our version update.
> 
> Question 7): Can you provide a video about this issue? Too simple description cannot help us get clear information.
> 
> Question 8): We only support HDR10+ decoding, you can use Dolby Vision to enhance the viewing experience.
> 
> Question 9): You can set EDID to 2.1, this problem should be solved.
> 
> Question 10): “Dynamic laser dimming” is currently not planned for this product, but our engineers are already working on this, so maybe our follow-up products will support.
> 
> The above are the answers to these questions, and some of them need to provide more detailed instructions, pictures or videos to help us better solve the problem.
> Thank you all!!





RickMes said:


> Hello Formovie!
> 
> First, I would like to thank Formovie for your Theater support, specially here on this forum. Your help solving these issues are very, very welcome.
> 
> The only issue that I seem to have is the focus one. Although I barely notice this issue since I am using a 90" screen, the upper corners (specially the left one) are never as focused as the bottom ones. But I will move the projector away from the wall and better analyse this issue with a bigger projection.
> 
> So, anyone having this issue should send the projector back and wait for it to be repaired and get it back? And how long will people be without a projector?
> 
> Having bought the projector directly from formovie.com during it's super early-bird campaign this is not a very costumer-friendly solution as the user will be left without a projection system for a long time for what seems to have been a QC issue in the first place (as too many people are having this focus issue).
> 
> Thanks again!


I think it's great that Formovie are starting to help the community and answer some of these burning questions while providing some updates. However, the answer to #4 is really not what you would want to hear.

Focus issues on the Formovie are widespread and something that keeps coming up. It is a quality control issue as the user above and others have posted constantly in this thread. It get's worse the bigger in screen size you go. It is clearly a hardware issue that some users have been brave enough to fix by manually opening the units. You are asking the purchasers to COMPLETELY replace the product? As in send it to you for repair or will you send a new unit? How long will that take? Would you consider sending a unit out before sending the old one back?


----------



## ice2hot

clipghost said:


> I think it's great that Formovie are starting to help the community and answer some of these burning questions while providing some updates. However, the answer to #4 is really not what you would want to hear.
> 
> Focus issues on the Formovie are widespread and something that keeps coming up. It is a quality control issue as the user above and others have posted constantly in this thread. It get's worse the bigger in screen size you go. It is clearly a hardware issue that some users have been brave enough to fix by manually opening the units. You are asking the purchasers to COMPLETELY replace the product? As in send it to you for repair or will you send a new unit? How long will that take? Would you consider sending a unit out before sending the old one back?


Makes sense.


----------



## Vladimirovich

ProjectionHead said:


> Which manufacturer is this?


For example, JVC NZ9, the manufacturer claims a native contrast ratio of 100,000:1.
In fact, on an open aperture there is 20,000: 1, on a closed aperture, no more than 60,000: 1, while the brightness is not working 200 Lm.


Sincerely.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> Yes but inflating contrast numbers is an advantage to the manufacturer to market that way. Saying a projector doesn’t have dynamic laser dimming when it actually does is a disadvantage and makes no sense, so why on earth would they do so in this instance?


You propose to believe what the manufacturer writes, or you could just check it during the test and then the question would disappear by itself!
And there is a reason for questions, because before that, 0.47 did not even show such a level of contrast!

Sincerely.


----------



## ice2hot

With the amount of Formovie theatre sold and its respected users, I think it would be wise to have a separate post which serves only two purpose. 

Question Related to the FMTPJ problem faced by the user 
Answer by FMTPJ related to the question. 

All other posts which dont meet the criteria should be deleted by the admin.
Also the first post should be pinned which can compile al questions for FMT team to see and they can answer on that first post.
Sort of like a FAQ and than based on that answer consumers can directly message the FMT team if needed be via PM and come to an agreement etc. 

All this communication and posts on this page would be taking up time of the FMT team and is not very efficient IMHO.


----------



## Jimmy22

Vladimirovich said:


> You propose to believe what the manufacturer writes, or you could just check it during the test and then the question would disappear by itself!
> And there is a reason for questions, because before that, 0.47 did not even show such a level of contrast!
> 
> Sincerely.


I found a video on Youtube where several UST projectors are being tested. If you skip to minute 13:43 you see that the Formovie Theater has the darkest black level in a mixed scene:






The Samsung LSP9T, which has the bigger 4K Shift DLP chip, has about 1800:1 contrast and looks less contrasty than the Formovie.
The XGIMI Aura and the Epson LS300 have about 2500:1 according to the measurements and also look silmilar / a hint less contrasty compared to the Formovie in the showed scene.

I think that the stated contrast of 3000:1 is real and that the projector has at least very good intrascene contrast, but I will measure it anyway as soon as I get my unit.
And also shall we not forget that the lower contrast ratios such as 700:1 are mostly measured with normal front projectors and not UST projectors. Most DLP UST projectors with the small 0.47 DLP chip measure about 1000:1, higher than their front projector counterparts.


----------



## Jimmy22

Also please take a look at this video, where Vincent Theo from HDTV Test (who has a lot of practice and knowledge in calibration) measures the black levels from a Xiaomi UST projector, which has a very similar ALPD light engine compared to the Formovie and states at minute 11:02 that it has the same black levels as an Epson TW9300 LCD projector:






The Epsons are also measured in the 3000:1 to 4000:1 area.
I can find many more reviews and comparison videos of the Fengmi / Xiaomi UST machines which all verify that these machines have superior contrast in comparison with other 4K shift 0.47 UST's and front projectors. I will not forget to measure the Formovie with a test pattern which has at least 1 or few white pixels to be sure there is no dimming going on 

And to be honest, if the black levels of the Formovie will not convince me, I will not keep it for a long time, because I just can't live with milky blacks. I'm just trying to find a solution which will be satisfying in a room with white walls and small amounts of ambient light. If those genius CLR screens for UST projectors have not existed, I would not even think about getting a UST projector and would watch on a 4K JVC front projector and a matte grey screen or a DNP screen with 0.8 Gain, because I can't stand the glittering / sparkle effects and light Falloff to the sides of ALR screens.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Vladimirovich said:


> You propose to believe what the manufacturer writes, or you could just check it during the test and then the question would disappear by itself!
> And there is a reason for questions, because before that, 0.47 did not even show such a level of contrast!
> 
> Sincerely.


@Dave Harper does in fact test and publish his readings in the reviews he writes as does @kraine and as an example both measured the Formovie above the manufacturer stated 3,000:1.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Vladimirovich said:


> For example, JVC NZ9, the manufacturer claims a native contrast ratio of 100,000:1.
> In fact, on an open aperture there is 20,000: 1, on a closed aperture, no more than 60,000: 1, while the brightness is not working 200 Lm.
> 
> 
> Sincerely.


Where were those measurements (20,000/60,000) published?


----------



## Vladimirovich

ProjectionHead said:


> @Dave Harper does in fact test and publish his readings in the reviews he writes as does @kraine and as an example both measured the Formovie above the manufacturer stated 3,000:1.


I measure exactly the same, but not only the on / off contrast, but also at least the ANSI contrast and 1%, white, this gives answers to all questions.
What will prevent the manufacturer from reducing the brightness or turning off the additional laser source when outputting a completely black field? When measuring 1%, everything would become clear.
It's weird that I'm the only one with this question...

Sincerely.


----------



## Vladimirovich

ProjectionHead said:


> Where were those measurements (20,000/60,000) published?


Many places have been published.
For example:
THE SONY vs JVC PROJECTORS COMPARISON THREAD





And this is not all reviews confirming this.

Sincerely.


----------



## Dave Harper

Vladimirovich said:


> You propose to believe what the manufacturer writes, or you could just check it during the test and then the question would disappear by itself!
> And there is a reason for questions, because before that, 0.47 did not even show such a level of contrast!
> 
> Sincerely.





Vladimirovich said:


> I measure exactly the same, but not only the on / off contrast, but also at least the ANSI contrast and 1%, white, this gives answers to all questions.
> What will prevent the manufacturer from reducing the brightness or turning off the additional laser source when outputting a completely black field? When measuring 1%, everything would become clear.
> It's weird that I'm the only one with this question...
> 
> Sincerely.


All 0.47” DLP based projectors using ALPD technology measure in the 2,000 - 4,000:1 range so this is not uncommon. 

I plan to test but I can’t drop everything I have been doing which keeps my family fed and housed or stop doing what needs done for the holidays coming up, just to answer one person’s insistent question on a public forum. 

I agree your question is a good one and valid. I never said it wasn’t. It just makes no sense whatsoever why a manufacturer would inflate their contrast numbers and then in turn hide the fact that they use laser dimming, which would be a positive if they were. 

I have read that it’s much more difficult to implement dynamic laser dimming on triple RGB lasers too. Even the Extreme Ultimate AV guys, Nigel and Alan have said this and they’re hoping it’s something they can offer in the future for their ultra expensive Christie based RGB Laser projectors such as the Griffyn. So do you honestly believe they and Christie can’t on $100,000+ projectors yet, but a cheap Chinese UST at $3,000 can and is doing it???

Sorry, but I’m just using deductive reasoning before I get a chance to actually measure. You very well may be right, and that would be an incredible feat for a product in this price range so it would be quite a surprise.


----------



## Ricoflashback

RE: Jimmy22 - "And to be honest, if the black levels of the Formovie will not convince me, I will not keep it for a long time, because I just can't live with milky blacks. I'm just trying to find a solution which will be satisfying in a room with white walls and small amounts of ambient light. If those genius CLR screens for UST projectors have not existed, I would not even think about getting a UST projector and would watch on a 4K JVC front projector and a matte grey screen or a DNP screen with 0.8 Gain, because I can't stand the glittering / sparkle effects and light Falloff to the sides of ALR screens."
[/QUOTE]
With an ALR screen, there are no milky blacks with the Formovie GT1 - at least in my experience. The light falloff (faint shadow around the frame) is definitely an issue but I believe it's with all UST projectors because of the extreme angle of projection. And - - it's mostly noticeable in a very, very dark room. I mean almost a black velvet, Elvis theater setup. I have that now with dark gray walls even though I have a white ceiling but it's a sloped, high ceiling. Some folks have dealt with that by putting up a velvet border around the frame. Stewart Filmscreen supposedly has a solution with their 2.5" frame with a new, angled, bezel design. It's pricey and I'm not sure it will work (Brian at projectorscreen.com will receive one, hopefully, soon - to test out.) It's expensive but if it solves the problem, I'll probably go for it.

Even JVC projectors have spray light. But again, that's in a totally dark room and it's not as pronounced as the UST white shadow - the WS effect? But I'll say this about the Formovie GT1 - - it has incredible, incredible black levels and color pop. I didn't have a choice and I needed a UST projector in my setup. I've been thrilled with the GT1 and it's been enjoyable watching everything from movies to sports to news - - you name it. Colors that I've never seen on a projector before and old movies that I've watched in the past with different hues that are very noticeable. Especially on clothing and older cars - - the paint jobs take you back to the late 60's and early 70's, if you are old enough to remember!


----------



## Jimmy22

With ALR screen I meant screens for front projectors which have metallic particles in the surface.
These kind of screens get darker at the edges (Light Falloff).

ALR means "Ambient Light Rejecting" and CLR means "Ceiling Light Rejecting" and are the UST screens which have no metallic particles and get their light rejecting abilities from the sawtooth structure which blocks light from the ceiling.

It can be confusing with all those terms.

Previously I owned several ALR screens for front projectors and I was never satisfied with the picture due to the mentioned problems like glitter effect in bright scenes and inhomogenous light distribution across the screen.

That's why I prefer matte grey screens without metallic particles for front projectors, even if they don't have the same abilities regarding light rejection. With CLR screens we get a perfect homogenous picture without any artifacts, but sadly they only work with UST projectors because they have to get the light from below the screen.

This video shows both screens, JVC with an ALR screen at the top and a Xiaomi UST projector with a CLR screen a the bottom. As soon as there is any ambient light, the UST looks much more contrasty due to the CLR screen material:






In completely dark rooms the JVC with the ALR screen is more contrasty in dark scenes, but the problems of the ALR screens remain.


----------



## Jimmy22

Even if I would never watch a movie in such light conditions, this picture shows how superior a CLR screen is in comparison with an ALR screen, and that is with a UST projector which has at least 5 times less contrast than a JVC projector.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> Even if I would never watch a movie in such light conditions, this picture shows how superior a CLR screen is in comparison with an ALR screen, and that is with a UST projector which has at least 5 times less contrast than a JVC projector.
> 
> View attachment 3375207


The terms are used, unfortunately, interchangeably. And the light and location of both screens doesn't do this picture any justice. It doesn't make any point to me as it's not apples to apples. You'll probably be better off with JVC - - that will work based on your past experiences and expectations.


----------



## Jimmy22

I have to compare both solutions directly in my room conditions, a JVC DLA-X3 which I have here with a matte grey screen and the Formovie Theater with a 0.5 Gain Epson CLR screen. Unfortunately another problem is, that the JVC projectors are extremely big and the placement of the projector is not as simple as with the UST. 

Also with a JVC and a matte grey screen I would have to run the projector in the high lamp mode, which will be too noisy.

And if I would decide for a JVC, I would like to have a bigger screen than 120 inch, but in my room this would only be possible if I work with a mirror, due to the lens ratio of the JVC's.

RGB Laser vs lamp is another advantage of the UST solution and also cost is an advantage, I paid about 2700 euros for the Formovie if I sell the 100 inch CLR screen which came as a bonus. A JVC DLA-NP5 would cost at least double.
And the JVC ones with Laser like NZ7 etc. are too expensive for me.

Too many disavantages with the JVC solution at the moment...


----------



## Jimmy22

@ Dave Harper

You made a very valid point in stating, that it is very difficult implementing Dimming on a RGB laser projector. I can imagine, that it is much more difficult to synchronise all three lasers than it is with just a single blue laser engine, which does not have to be synchronised. 

I also don't know any triple laser unit which has Dimming, only the ones with single blue laser have this feature as far as I know. I would be very surprised if the Formovie Theater would have any dimming with a black test pattern.


----------



## jeff9n

Jimmy22 said:


> This video shows both screens, JVC with an ALR screen at the top and a Xiaomi UST projector with a CLR screen a the bottom. As soon as there is any ambient light, the UST looks much more contrasty due to the CLR screen material:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In completely dark rooms the JVC with the ALR screen is more contrasty in dark scenes, but the problems of the ALR screens remain.


I think you meant a Xiaomi UST projector with the ALR screen, not CLR. As noted at the beginning of the video, both projectors use the ALR screen.


----------



## Jimmy22

The bottom screen with the Xiaomi is a Vividstorm CLR screen, though they are called ALR too, which is also true, because what they do is reject ambient light..

I know that these terms are interchangeably, but the Vividstorm screen has this sawtooth structure. The upper screen with the JVC has metallic particles to have ambient light rejecting properties.

Regardless of what the screen is called, the technology behind hose two types of screen is very different.

This is what I mean by CLR screen:


----------



## rjyap

Dave Harper said:


> All 0.47” DLP based projectors using ALPD technology measure in the 2,000 - 4,000:1 range so this is not uncommon.
> 
> I plan to test but I can’t drop everything I have been doing which keeps my family fed and housed or stop doing what needs done for the holidays coming up, just to answer one person’s insistent question on a public forum.
> 
> I agree your question is a good one and valid. I never said it wasn’t. It just makes no sense whatsoever why a manufacturer would inflate their contrast numbers and then in turn hide the fact that they use laser dimming, which would be a positive if they were.
> 
> I have read that it’s much more difficult to implement dynamic laser dimming on triple RGB lasers too. Even the Extreme Ultimate AV guys, Nigel and Alan have said this and they’re hoping it’s something they can offer in the future for their ultra expensive Christie based RGB Laser projectors such as the Griffyn. So do you honestly believe they and Christie can’t on $100,000+ projectors yet, but a cheap Chinese UST at $3,000 can and is doing it???
> 
> Sorry, but I’m just using deductive reasoning before I get a chance to actually measure. You very well may be right, and that would be an incredible feat for a product in this price range so it would be quite a surprise.


Actually I don't understand why it's that difficult to color balance with laser dimming. If I look at Optoma previous iris dimming service menu, the algo provide 2 steps dimming, 1/2 and 1/4 dimming (x4 dynamic). If the firmware allow us to calibrate RGB color balance for each step (full, 1/2 and 1/4), then the color shift issue could be resolved.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Dave Harper said:


> All 0.47” DLP based projectors using ALPD technology measure in the 2,000 - 4,000:1 range so this is not uncommon.


ALPD is just a light source...
Why hasn't a single manufacturer achieved an increase in contrast when changing the light source? Sony lasers show about the same contrast as tube ones, and JVC NZ9 even lost contrast compared to NX9...



Dave Harper said:


> I plan to test but I can’t drop everything I have been doing which keeps my family fed and housed or stop doing what needs done for the holidays coming up, just to answer one person’s insistent question on a public forum.


Most users here are enthusiasts and spend their personal time on this hobby and take it away from the family, I am no exception, my main activity is far from projection technologies. But when I take measurements, I don't do banal measurements of brightness and contrast on\off. At a minimum, these are still ANSI measurements and 1% white. And measurements of brightness depending on the position of the zoom lens.
I'm not demanding, I'm just asking how you can be sure that this is native by measuring only on \ off !?
I do not claim anything, but as it turned out, everyone relies on the manufacturer's statement ...



Dave Harper said:


> I agree your question is a good one and valid. I never said it wasn’t. It just makes no sense whatsoever why a manufacturer would inflate their contrast numbers and then in turn hide the fact that they use laser dimming, which would be a positive if they were.





Dave Harper said:


> I have read that it’s much more difficult to implement dynamic laser dimming on triple RGB lasers too. Even the Extreme Ultimate AV guys, Nigel and Alan have said this and they’re hoping it’s something they can offer in the future for their ultra expensive Christie based RGB Laser projectors such as the Griffyn. So do you honestly believe they and Christie can’t on $100,000+ projectors yet, but a cheap Chinese UST at $3,000 can and is doing it???


Have you seen the ALPD 4.0 schematic? There, along with RGB LEDs, a laser is additionally used through a phosphor wheel to increase the overall brightness, this is ideal for turning it off or dimming at any time for better contrast and black levels!












Dave Harper said:


> Sorry, but I’m just using deductive reasoning before I get a chance to actually measure. You very well may be right, and that would be an incredible feat for a product in this price range so it would be quite a surprise.


I do the same, 0.47 suddenly became 5 times more contrast, plus the ALPD 4.0 scheme, maybe I'm wrong, but it definitely needs to be checked!


----------



## Vladimirovich

Jimmy22 said:


> Even if I would never watch a movie in such light conditions, this picture shows how superior a CLR screen is in comparison with an ALR screen, and that is with a UST projector which has at least 5 times less contrast than a JVC projector.


What's happening on this screen with shadow details? Is he gray?
Take a grayscale photo of the pattern.


----------



## mirzank

Vladimirovich said:


> Have you seen the ALPD 4.0 schematic? There, along with RGB LEDs, a laser is additionally used through a phosphor wheel to increase the overall brightness, this is ideal for turning it off or dimming at any time for better contrast and black levels!
> 
> 
> 
> I do the same, 0.47 suddenly became 5 times more contrast, plus the ALPD 4.0 scheme, maybe I'm wrong, but it definitely needs to be checked!


You've been on this topic for a while but I'm wondering why does the absolute measurement even matter? I get it we like to compare different products to get the best one or understand our product better. But if you're saying that the Formovie can do a maximum of 700 contrast, but its a deeper black than other products i've seen, then that means the other products are even lower contract. To me all that matters is relatively how good a product is to something else, not the absolute number. so if the formovie is 3000 and is 3x better than an LG UST, i don't care if the numbers are 3000 vs 1000 or 700 vs 280. 

It seems like a very academic discussion, and even if you're right that the formovie has 700 contrast then it still doesn't matter as relatively its one of the best pictures i've seen. we won't solve the secrets of the light source, unless you are intent on proving some point against the formovie i'm not getting


----------



## SmSnko

This is alr 120 screen from epson. I am very satisfied.


----------



## ice2hot

Looks sdr content check hdr and dolby vision. Try the cms settings and see how it goes


----------



## H2K1

Vladimirovich said:


> I'm not demanding, I'm just asking how you can be sure that this is native by measuring only on \ off !?


If you assume that for a projector, which uses a dynamic contrast, the power consumption varies. It seems to me that @kraine has made his measurements to conclude that contrast ratio of projectors with an alpd laser are native.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> You've been on this topic for a while but I'm wondering why does the absolute measurement even matter? I get it we like to compare different products to get the best one or understand our product better. But if you're saying that the Formovie can do a maximum of 700 contrast, but its a deeper black than other products i've seen, then that means the other products are even lower contract. To me all that matters is relatively how good a product is to something else, not the absolute number. so if the formovie is 3000 and is 3x better than an LG UST, i don't care if the numbers are 3000 vs 1000 or 700 vs 280.
> 
> It seems like a very academic discussion, and even if you're right that the formovie has 700 contrast then it still doesn't matter as relatively its one of the best pictures i've seen. we won't solve the secrets of the light source, unless you are intent on proving some point against the formovie i'm not getting


I agree 100%. Maybe Formovie can provide more details, if they want, on how the contrast is measured. I'm sure they won't be giving up the secret sauce of ALPD. Whatever it is, however they obtained their black floor and incredible colors, I don't need exact measurements to validate my purchase or enjoyment of this projector. I guess I'm not an absolute measurement guy - - if my eyes like it (and especially if other AVS Forum Members like it) - then I'll try it.

I think the OP would be better off contacting Formovie directly. It's really an esoteric discussion that most participants in this forum aren't as enthused about. It has an element of "FUD" to it but like I said before - - I trust my eyes and the other AVS Forum Users plus folks like Brian, Harpervision and Kraine for all the technical specs and measurements.


----------



## Jimmy22

Vladimirovich said:


> What's happening on this screen with shadow details? Is he gray?
> Take a grayscale photo of the pattern.


The picture is only a screenshot from the Youtube video I posted.


----------



## JackB

Anyone here successfully implemented eARC or Digital Audio from the Formovie to a Denon receiver? I can't get mine to work and support at Formovie is no help.


----------



## j-0

So recently my Global Formovie Theater remote stopped working. I ofcourse tried restarting my Formovie, tried replacing the batteries, tried pressing practically all the buttons on the remote (lol)... So far nothing worked. Thankfully I can still use my Formovie device as I mostly use it with Apple TV and that remote works fine.

Has this happened to anyone else? Is there somehow a repairing shortcut that I didn't find yet, or could it be that the remote is actually broken somehow?


----------



## Vladimirovich

mirzank said:


> You've been on this topic for a while but I'm wondering why does the absolute measurement even matter? I get it we like to compare different products to get the best one or understand our product better. But if you're saying that the Formovie can do a maximum of 700 contrast, but its a deeper black than other products i've seen, then that means the other products are even lower contract. To me all that matters is relatively how good a product is to something else, not the absolute number. so if the formovie is 3000 and is 3x better than an LG UST, i don't care if the numbers are 3000 vs 1000 or 700 vs 280.


I say that the 0.47 chip installed in this projector mainly measures contrast 500 - 700:1, the 0.66 chip measures 1000 - 1100:1, the 0.65 1080p chip measures 1600:1, the old 0.95 2500 - 3500: one. This suggests that the contrast is affected not by the light source, but by the chip parameters, the density of the mirrors, the chip size, and possibly the tilt angle of the mirrors.
And it looks strange when suddenly a small chip shows a contrast ratio of 3500:1.

And of course a projector with well-implemented laser dimming will look better in dark scenes, it will have better blacks, and this is normal and it should be, maybe this is what you see compared to others.



mirzank said:


> It seems like a very academic discussion, and even if you're right that the formovie has 700 contrast then it still doesn't matter as relatively its one of the best pictures i've seen. we won't solve the secrets of the light source, unless you are intent on proving some point against the formovie i'm not getting


I just asked a question! For me, this is a normal common question, because it is normal to check such unusual contrast ratios for a 0.47 chip. As a result, an incomprehensible discussion began. And the main reviewer of the branch, instead of having a normal discussion, got offended like a schoolboy and sent me to the ban ...

Sincerely.


----------



## kraine

I will try to answer rationally for one last time to a person who can only demonstrate one thing, that he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to UST lasers with DMD 0,47.
Most of the big brands such as BenQ or Optoma are already achieving native contrast values of 1000:1 with their recent UST laser models, which is already double the theoretical value of the chip's capabilities in this area.
With the latest ChiQ and Philips tested (not ALPD) it can even go up natively to 1300:1 without the help of the dynamic laser.
These manufacturers are chasing the results obtained by Appotronics thanks to this specific design of the optical block which allows to exceed 3000:1 of NATIF contrast on almost all the last tested ALPD models!
Dave and I have tried to answer calmly and intelligently to the trollage without any sense and especially without any practical experience of UST laser tests, but it seems to me that the goal of the person concerned is elsewhere.
It is very easy to verify with the modulation of the electrical power (or rather the absence of modulation for ALPD projectors) that these models do not have dynamic control of the laser.
This will be my last answer on this subject.


----------



## kraine

j-0 said:


> So recently my Global Formovie Theater remote stopped working. I ofcourse tried restarting my Formovie, tried replacing the batteries, tried pressing practically all the buttons on the remote (lol)... So far nothing worked. Thankfully I can still use my Formovie device as I mostly use it with Apple TV and that remote works fine.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else? Is there somehow a repairing shortcut that I didn't find yet, or could it be that the remote is actually broken somehow?


Try to control your projector with a USB mouse and restart the Bluetooth pairing process of your remote control.


----------



## mirzank

j-0 said:


> So recently my Global Formovie Theater remote stopped working. I ofcourse tried restarting my Formovie, tried replacing the batteries, tried pressing practically all the buttons on the remote (lol)... So far nothing worked. Thankfully I can still use my Formovie device as I mostly use it with Apple TV and that remote works fine.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else? Is there somehow a repairing shortcut that I didn't find yet, or could it be that the remote is actually broken somehow?


Happens quite frequently to lots of us. Remote won’t pair with buttons. Either unplug your formovie wall plug and replug and remote will start working or connect a usb mouse to go into Bluetooth settings.


----------



## ice2hot

JackB said:


> Anyone here successfully implemented eARC or Digital Audio from the Formovie to a Denon receiver? I can't get mine to work and support at Formovie is no help.


I tried the E-Arc and SPDIF. Both works fine on my harman Kardon AVR 161s.
Also formovie staff is pretty fast in replying. They did to my query but it was only to answer the question they knew the answer to. 
I suggest to make a video and showcase how you have setup and if you have made the audio changes in the settings of the projector as well


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Anyone here successfully implemented eARC or Digital Audio from the Formovie to a Denon receiver? I can't get mine to work and support at Formovie is no help.


Someone mentioned this before and I just hooked up my Denon X6700H successfully to eARC. Check the audio settings under Digital, if I remember, and change to “Bypass.” 

I have cable, Blu-ray and Nvidia Shield Pro hooked up to my AVR. If you have the ability to upscale and sharpen your 1080p cable signal with your Denon - I highly recommend it. The picture is breathtaking on the Formovie and very close to, dare I say, a Blu-ray Disc. I watched the Snowman yesterday on cable and it was fantastic.

Lastly, I finally received my four Focal Chora 826-D speakers with upfiring Atmos built in (Merry Xmas to me!) and they work great, so far. Obviously not as good as dedicated height speakers but the best out there, IMHO, with built in Atmos. I have a somewhat large dedicated space for my theater where way to the left is our dining room table. Just two reclining seats with motorized headrests. And, I’m using a phantom center. It’s much clearer to hear dialog since the Focal Choras are angled up and the tweeters are right at your ear level. Amazing - in the sweet spot, you’d swear dialog is coming from the center!


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> I will try to answer rationally for one last time to a person who can only demonstrate one thing, that he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to UST lasers with DMD 0,47.
> Most of the big brands such as BenQ or Optoma are already achieving native contrast values of 1000:1 with their recent UST laser models, which is already double the theoretical value of the chip's capabilities in this area.
> With the latest ChiQ and Philips tested (not ALPD) it can even go up natively to 1300:1 without the help of the dynamic laser.
> These manufacturers are chasing the results obtained by Appotronics thanks to this specific design of the optical block which allows to exceed 3000:1 of NATIF contrast on almost all the last tested ALPD models!
> Dave and I have tried to answer calmly and intelligently to the trollage without any sense and especially without any practical experience of UST laser tests, but it seems to me that the goal of the person concerned is elsewhere.
> It is very easy to verify with the modulation of the electrical power (or rather the absence of modulation for ALPD projectors) that these models do not have dynamic control of the laser.
> This will be my last answer on this subject.


How do you know my knowledge in this area?
A rational explanation is to bring the facts, and you just don’t have the facts, there is only an on / off measurement, why this is not enough, I wrote above, especially with the ALPD 4.0 implementation scheme, in which there is an additional laser element that can be dimmed.

What is the optical design scheme? Can you link to it? Otherwise, these are just words ... The scheme is available on the manufacturer's website; there is not a word about the specific design of the optical path.

Calmly and competently, this is to give arguments, your only argument was that the power does not change, while this is not mentioned in the review, then you stated that I have never measured anything in my life and sent to the ban.
This is a strong move!
How do you know that I have no experience in this?
No and there was no trolling on my part, there was a simple question! If you suspect me of some kind of interest, then bring evidence!

Sincerely.


----------



## arsenalfc89

I can see where @Vladimirovich is coming from and the others as well. Honestly all of this can be put to bed if measuring contrast with a 1% white was provided (useful to further understand what is going on). If I still had an ALPD unit I would have done it for you. Looks like Dave will get it done when he has time.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Vladimirovich said:


> How do you know my knowledge in this area?
> A rational explanation is to bring the facts, and you just don’t have the facts, there is only an on / off measurement, why this is not enough, I wrote above, especially with the ALPD 4.0 implementation scheme, in which there is an additional laser element that can be dimmed.
> 
> What is the optical design scheme? Can you link to it? Otherwise, these are just words ... The scheme is available on the manufacturer's website; there is not a word about the specific design of the optical path.
> 
> Calmly and competently, this is to give arguments, your only argument was that the power does not change, while this is not mentioned in the review, then you stated that I have never measured anything in my life and sent to the ban.
> This is a strong move!
> How do you know that I have no experience in this?
> No and there was no trolling on my part, there was a simple question! If you suspect me of some kind of interest, then bring evidence!
> 
> Sincerely.


I wish you the best of the holiday season but you are seriously derailing this thread. I think it's time to take it to another forum or off line conversation. I'm not accusing you of anything - - I'm just saying that it's time to get back to the Formovie GT1 and owner's comments, suggestions, experiences, problems and ways to solve them.


----------



## Jimmy22

As soon as I got my unit, I will measure all contrast ratios with 1 white pixel on a black background and also Ansi contrast.
I think middle / end of january. Let's just wait till then @ Vladimirovich


----------



## ice2hot

Ricoflashback said:


> I wish you the best of the holiday season but you are seriously derailing this thread. I think it's time to take it to another forum or off line conversation. I'm not accusing you of anything - - I'm just saying that it's time to get back to the Formovie GT1 and owner's comments, suggestions, experiences, problems and ways to solve them.


Took the words right out of my mouth.
All serious owners of formovie want to ensure that they get the best bang out of a projector which has the potential to be alot better than the ootb which has been put on a back burner. Can we please get back on topic. The formovie team needs some cle a r space. Can we pls repost for them to revert back. 
Thank you


----------



## H2K1

Hello,
I really need your help. I have a problem on my video projector. When I project an image larger than 120 inches, I have a light halo on the right side of the image. Has this ever happened to you?
Thank you very much for your feedback


----------



## TeleWires

Hey folks,

This might be a goofy question but this is my first projector purpose and I want to get it right. Are there different versions of the Formovie Theater projector? I live north of Toronto in a smaller community so there isn't a shop I can wander in to and talk to someone.

Do I need to concern myself with older/newer versions of this projector or is the hardware always the same? For example, I am looking to make the following purchase from a Canadian retailer:








Formovie Laser TV - Theater 4K Ultra Short Throw Projector


World's 1ST Dolby Vision Compatible 4K UST Laser Projector! With 2800 ANSI lumens, Crisp and Clear Anytime! Get the Best Deal from Eastporters Today!




www.eastporters.com





Can I safely go ahead and buy the projector or there are any questions I should ask the retailer first? I was considering buying from ProjectorScreens but I'm not sure what kind of duty/tariff hit I'm going to take when it hits the border. I just want to know that here is only the one model and that there isn't an older version of the projector I should avoid.

Also does anyone have an issue the retailer I linked? If so is there a respected Canadian retailer that anyone can recommend?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ice2hot

You got the right projector but he's charging too much. Better order from usa to Canada. 
Also definitely buy a projector screen.


----------



## DesertDog

H2K1 said:


> Hello,
> I really need your help. I have a problem on my video projector. When I project an image larger than 120 inches, I have a light halo on the right side of the image. Has this ever happened to you?
> Thank you very much for your feedback


Is your lens clean? The one exposed on top. I see some odd artifacts at times like that if there's dust, a piece of hair, etc. on it. I keep a Nikon lens brush next to mine for this reason.


----------



## TeleWires

ice2hot said:


> You got the right projector but he's charging too much. Better order from usa to Canada.
> Also definitely buy a projector screen.


The price of the projector from the link I posted is $4200 in Canadian Dollars. If I purchase from the USA, the Formovie projector is running $3500US which works out to nearly $4800CDN after conversion + any fees I run into at the border. PrjectorScreen.com has it on sale for $3000 but that still translates to $4200CDN. Not sure if I will need to pay duty - if anyone here has experience shipping to Canada I'd love to hear your experience.

They also have a combo package with the EluneVision Aurora 120" screen. The combo deal reduces the price of the screen quite a bit. Any thoughts on this screen?
Sorry guys, I hope I am asking these questions in the right forum.








Formovie Laser TV - Theater 4K UST Projector + EluneVision 8K Aurora UST NanoEdge Package


Formovie Laser TV - Theater 4K UST Projector + EluneVision 8K Aurora UST NanoEdge Package - Eastporters Audio Video




www.eastporters.com


----------



## Ricoflashback

TeleWires said:


> The price of the projector from the link I posted is $4200 in Canadian Dollars. If I purchase from the USA, the Formovie projector is running $3500US which works out to nearly $4800CDN after conversion + any fees I run into at the border. PrjectorScreen.com has it on sale for $3000 but that still translates to $4200CDN. Not sure if I will need to pay duty - if anyone here has experience shipping to Canada I'd love to hear your experience.
> 
> They also have a combo package with the EluneVision Aurora 120" screen. The combo deal reduces the price of the screen quite a bit. Any thoughts on this screen?
> Sorry guys, I hope I am asking these questions in the right forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Laser TV - Theater 4K UST Projector + EluneVision 8K Aurora UST NanoEdge Package
> 
> 
> Formovie Laser TV - Theater 4K UST Projector + EluneVision 8K Aurora UST NanoEdge Package - Eastporters Audio Video
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.eastporters.com


Sorry you have to pay higher prices in Canada. That doesn't seem fair but it is what it is. 

Regarding the screen - - EluneVision has a good name but I'm not sure about their ALR screen. I'd say see if you can get a sample but without a projector to test - - I'm not sure how helpful that would be. How about other AVS Forum Users? Can they provide any experience with this screen and a UST projector? Research EluneVision on the AVS Forum or any other forum with folks who have this type of screen and UST setup.


----------



## TeleWires

Ricoflashback said:


> Sorry you have to pay higher prices in Canada. That doesn't seem fair but it is what it is.
> 
> Regarding the screen - - EluneVision has a good name but I'm not sure about their ALR screen. I'd say see if you can get a sample but without a projector to test - - I'm not sure how helpful that would be. How about other AVS Forum Users? Can they provide any experience with this screen and a UST projector? Research EluneVision on the AVS Forum or any other forum with folks who have this type of screen and UST setup.



Thanks, Rico. I'm not too stressed about paying more because of the Canadian Dollar, we're used to it up here . I'm mostly trying to make sure I get the proper screen to go with the projector. I don't want to go through this to find out I purchased the wrong hardware because I didn't ask any questions. This is all new to me and, as any A/V newb will tell you, the information is overwhelming.

If the Aurora screen in that projector/screen bundle I linked it good then that is the way I'll go - I save about 1K on the screen in the bundle. I have full control of the light coming into the room but there are times when I will have light at the back of the room above our game table but I can still keep it dim in front of the screen. 

I do appreciate the help and advice.


----------



## Ricoflashback

TeleWires said:


> Thanks, Rico. I'm not too stressed about paying more because of the Canadian Dollar, we're used to it up here . I'm mostly trying to make sure I get the proper screen to go with the projector. I don't want to go through this to find out I purchased the wrong hardware because I didn't ask any questions. This is all new to me and, as any A/V newb will tell you, the information is overwhelming.
> 
> If the Aurora screen in that projector/screen bundle I linked it good then that is the way I'll go - I save about 1K on the screen in the bundle. I have full control of the light coming into the room but there are times when I will have light at the back of the room above our game table but I can still keep it dim in front of the screen.
> 
> I do appreciate the help and advice.


Have you checked with Brian at projectorscreen.com? It would be great if you could buy from him as he stands by the products he sells. I'm not sure that he can or does sell to Canada. I'm sure he'd give you a great price. 

Brian does sell Elunevision - - so I'd ping him to get as much info as you can on the Aurora screen. I have full light control, as well, in my room with a cheapo ALR screen right now. It's still a benefit to have an ALR screen once you introduce any light into the room.


----------



## ProjectionHead

Ricoflashback said:


> Have you checked with Brian at projectorscreen.com? It would be great if you could buy from him as he stands by the products he sells. I'm not sure that he can or does sell to Canada. I'm sure he'd give you a great price.
> 
> Brian does sell Elunevision - - so I'd ping him to get as much info as you can on the Aurora screen. I have full light control, as well, in my room with a cheapo ALR screen right now. It's still a benefit to have an ALR screen once you introduce any light into the room.


@TeleWires - @Ricoflashback is right, shoot me an email 😉


----------



## TeleWires

ProjectionHead said:


> @TeleWires - @Ricoflashback is right, shoot me an email 😉


Thanks, Brian. I just fired an email off to you. Looking forward to your response.


----------



## gymnos

ice2hot said:


> I tried the E-Arc and SPDIF. Both works fine on my harman Kardon AVR 161s.
> Also formovie staff is pretty fast in replying. They did to my query but it was only to answer the question they knew the answer to.
> I suggest to make a video and showcase how you have setup and if you have made the audio changes in the settings of the projector as well


Can you get 5.1 audio from SPDIF? because on my unit I can´t... It only outputs multichannel audio with Amazon Prime Video.

On the other hand, ARC works fine.


----------



## ice2hot

gymnos said:


> Can you get 5.1 audio from SPDIF? because on my unit I can´t... It only outputs multichannel audio with Amazon Prime Video.
> 
> On the other hand, ARC works fine.


Yes I get 5.1 via spdif. Make sure to enable audio bypass on your media player or keep it at raw on your Pj


----------



## mioptic

ProjectionHead said:


> @TeleWires - @Ricoflashback is right, shoot me an email 😉


Any idea when we might see some stock? Is the 2/3 week outlay pretty accurate? I know a guy who might be curious about his order


----------



## mioptic

Duplicate - my bad.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mioptic said:


> Any idea when we might see some stock? Is the 2/3 week outlay pretty accurate? I know a guy who might be curious about his order


MANY units arrived yesterday and are being shipped out today. More expected in next week and more so early January. 2/3 weeks for orders placed today is a reasonable estimate.


----------



## mioptic

ProjectionHead said:


> MANY units arrived yesterday and are being shipped out today. More expected in next week and more so early January. 2/3 weeks for orders placed today is a reasonable estimate.


Appreciate the follow up, maybe I'll be one of the lucky few today  

I know this has been discussed a bit prior, but is the general consensus that a CLR/ALR screen is going to provide a significant advantage over just a traditional fixed white panel? My setup is going into a basement with no windows, and one rearward light that would be flipped off during viewing. Just trying to decide whether or not spending what seems to be like 3-5x a non-CLR screen is worth it. I know it's a difficult question to answer without knowing all of the exact details, but just trying to get a general idea.


----------



## ProjectionHead

mioptic said:


> Appreciate the follow up, maybe I'll be one of the lucky few today
> 
> I know this has been discussed a bit prior, but is the general consensus that a CLR/ALR screen is going to provide a significant advantage over just a traditional fixed white panel? My setup is going into a basement with no windows, and one rearward light that would be flipped off during viewing. Just trying to decide whether or not spending what seems to be like 3-5x a non-CLR screen is worth it. I know it's a difficult question to answer without knowing all of the exact details, but just trying to get a general idea.


Are your ceiling white? If so, a standard white screen will reflect a lot of light up at the ceiling and create ambient light. If your ceiling is dark, that is much less of a problem.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ProjectionHead said:


> Are your ceiling white? If so, a standard white screen will reflect a lot of light up at the ceiling and create ambient light. If your ceiling is dark, that is much less of a problem.


That's a very good point. I initially thought that a regular, 1.0 screen would provide a brighter picture. That, it will. But with an ALR screen and even the high white ceilings I have with very dark, gray walls - - when the lights are out - - the picture is plenty bright enough and the blacks are blacker (darker.) In fact, since there is no light being reflected upwards, it's so dark in my theater room (multipurpose room with a dining room table way to the left of the seating area) that I need a motion activated, "night light" to avoid stumbling around. 

That's the biggest benefit of using an ALR screen with a UST projector, IMHO. It's not a gimmick. While it's more expensive, I believe it works the best with a UST PJ. Especially if you add any ambient light into the room. I can guarantee you that a white, 1.0 gain screen's "letterbox bars" on a 16 X 9 screen will not look as dark compared to an ALR UST screen. So yes - - if you have a fully, light controlled, Black Velvet Elvis theater room with dark walls, ceilings and you're wearing a dark, black turtleneck sweater with black pants and socks in a dark black reclining chair or sofa - a regular screen will work. Just kidding on the last part. Happy Holidays to everyone!


----------



## ifosso

Sonny Red said:


> I almost forgot I have something weird with Android TV.
> 
> I downloaded the application Apple TV as I bought Top Gun : Maverick.
> 
> I plug my Sony HT-A9 on the eARC input. It work on the first attempt but had drop outs as the control box was hidden with the Formovie Theater.
> 
> I decided to move the HT-A9 control box which looks like a big Apple TV 4K and also to disconnect the wifi and plug an Ethernet cable to avoid interferences.
> 
> Then I wanted to test if the dropouts disappear but as soon as I launch the movie under the Apple TV app the movie freezes within 2 seconds and it makes reboot Android TV so the Formovie theater. Try to uninstall the app and reinstall it but it makes no difference. The Formovie theater kept on rebooting as soon as a launched the movie.
> 
> So I unplug the HT-A9 and launch the movie and no more freezing app and rebooting. I plug my HT-A9 back and the app freezing and Android reboot went back.
> 
> So it seems that there is a bug with the Apple TV app when you have audio system plugged in.
> 
> I have also paired a Bluetooth Sony WH-1000XM4 to be able to watch movies late at night and the Bluetooth keep on disconnecting as soon as I am in the Android TV menus and not pressing on the remote at least every 15 seconds. As long as I navigate no issues but if I don’t use the remote for 15 seconds ds the Bluetooth disconnect. Then I press any button on the remote and the blutooth connection is back.


Did you ever find a solution to the freezing and reboot issue? I have a Formovie Theater and when plugged into a Sonos Ark it's freezing and rebooting just as you described. It was working well for a few days but now this is happening. I haven't had a lot of time to troubleshoot it yet but I'm wondering if you've found a solution? Thanks!


----------



## ifosso

ifosso said:


> Did you ever find a solution to the freezing and reboot issue? I have a Formovie Theater and when plugged into a Sonos Ark it's freezing and rebooting just as you described. It was working well for a few days but now this is happening. I haven't had a lot of time to troubleshoot it yet but I'm wondering if you've found a solution? Thanks!


Update - Switching Digital Audio to Bypass fixed it, seems to be a universal fix for this thing and external audio. Does anyone know what the setting actually does?


----------



## Bossmann316

Will the Formovie theater handle 50/24/23,976 fps at correct framerate or is it locked to 60hz ?


----------



## RickMes

I see some people recommending that Dolby Vision Bright works best with the Formovie Theater while others say the Dark mode is better.

However, from my experience, I think that it is a mixed bag and it actually depends on the content. Some washed out content when using DV Bright Mode get much nicer after switching to Dark. So, my question is, since different HDR/DV content is mastered at different nits, maybe it's better to try out both settings whenever we feel the image is too dark or too bright/washed out?

Also, I noticed that some Streaming Services works almost flawless (Amazon Prime, Disney+), while others like HBOMax and sometimes NETFLIX are more of a mixed bag.

Any comments, anyone?

Thanks and Merry Xmas to everyone.


----------



## RickMes

Is it possible for a consumer with some video signal knowledge to use a HDR UHD Benchmark disc like Spears & Munsils to optimize image wiithout doing professional calibration? I can't find anyone in my area that does that service (maybe a career opportunity! ehehe) but would like to try and optimize my Theater's image (SDR, HDR, DV) without any sort of external hardware video processor.

Thanks and Merry Xmas, again!


----------



## luisalbertokid

RickMes said:


> Also, I noticed that some Streaming Services works almost flawless (Amazon Prime, Disney+), while others like HBOMax and sometimes NETFLIX are more of a mixed bag.


Totally agree with that. HBO (House of the Dragon for example) and Netflix (1899) are almost unwatchable in HDR on my Epson 5040ub - I have to raise the gamma to +2 (brightest setting) and even so there are dark scenes where I can't see anything. On Prime I can use my custom gamma (which is close to 0, the default setting) and content like Rings of Power looks pretty good. UHD BDs, of course, look even better (The Batman, Blade Runner 2049 and Atomic Blonde are among my favorites).


----------



## manageablebits

Has anyone got ALLM auto low latency mode working with a PC for gaming? Bit of a pain having to switch to gaming moded manually every time. Also whats PC moded?

Thanks!


----------



## bschoepke

luisalbertokid said:


> Totally agree with that. HBO (House of the Dragon for example) and Netflix (1899) are almost unwatchable in HDR on my Epson 5040ub - I have to raise the gamma to +2 (brightest setting) and even so there are dark scenes where I can't see anything. On Prime I can use my custom gamma (which is close to 0, the default setting) and content like Rings of Power looks pretty good. UHD BDs, of course, look even better (The Batman, Blade Runner 2049 and Atomic Blonde are among my favorites).


 Same experience here with HBO, especially with House of the Dragon, although my LG OLED TV is also affected. The problem is likely on their side.


----------



## clipghost

manageablebits said:


> Has anyone got ALLM auto low latency mode working with a PC for gaming? Bit of a pain having to switch to gaming moded manually every time. Also whats PC moded?
> 
> Thanks!


How are you liking the gaming lag on this unit? Noticeable?


----------



## ice2hot

RickMes said:


> Is it possible for a consumer with some video signal knowledge to use a HDR UHD Benchmark disc like Spears & Munsils to optimize image wiithout doing professional calibration? I can't find anyone in my area that does that service (maybe a career opportunity! ehehe) but would like to try and optimize my Theater's image (SDR, HDR, DV) without any sort of external hardware video processor.
> 
> Thanks and Merry Xmas, again!


Try these settings done by a proffesional Calibrator. I can't try em becuse out of the country. Let me know how it sets out at your end. Hope you have an ALR/CLR screen


----------



## RickMes

ice2hot said:


> Try these settings done by a proffesional Calibrator. I can't try em becuse out of the country. Let me know how it sets out at your end. Hope you have an ALR/CLR screen


Thanks! I will try it.

I have an Elite Screens Aeon Fixed Frame Starlight CLR.


----------



## gymnos

ice2hot said:


> Try these settings done by a proffesional Calibrator. I can't try em becuse out of the country. Let me know how it sets out at your end. Hope you have an ALR/CLR screen


I am using those settings and PQ has increased, specially black levels, contrast and sharpness.


----------



## ice2hot

gymnos said:


> I am using those settings and PQ has increased, specially black levels, contrast and sharpness.


Great would you be able to do a comparison shot or video if possible. 
thank you.


----------



## acting.absurd

gymnos said:


> ice2hot said:
> 
> 
> 
> Try these settings done by a proffesional Calibrator. I can't try em becuse out of the country. Let me know how it sets out at your end. Hope you have an ALR/CLR screen
> 
> 
> 
> I am using those settings and PQ has increased, specially black levels, contrast and sharpness.
Click to expand...

I'm using the same settings on my unit but I have to say that Dolby Vision Content still looks flat. The Colors are not popping the way I imagined


----------



## ice2hot

acting.absurd said:


> I'm using the same settings on my unit but I have to say that Dolby Vision Content still looks flat. The Colors are not popping the way I imagined


Have you tried setting the screen size and gain 
Do you have a ALR acreen
What media are you playing and through what player. 
try sharing a video of your content. Alsodo note that phone cameras tend to overexpose and increase contrast and color Capture so what I would advise to make two clips one with how your phone captures
Second clip adjust the contrast and brightness on your phone the way your eyes see it in terms of lower contrast and colors and brightness. 
we’ll see from there.


----------



## acting.absurd

ice2hot said:


> acting.absurd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the same settings on my unit but I have to say that Dolby Vision Content still looks flat. The Colors are not popping the way I imagined
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried setting the screen size and gain
> Do you have a ALR acreen
> What media are you playing and through what player.
> try sharing a video of your content. Alsodo note that phone cameras tend to overexpose and increase contrast and color Capture so what I would advise to make two clips one with how your phone captures
> Second clip adjust the contrast and brightness on your phone the way your eyes see it in terms of lower contrast and colors and brightness.
> we’ll see from there.
Click to expand...

I will send the picture when I'm back home. As a screen I use a 110 inch 0.7 gain CLR (don't know the manufacturer) and as media player I'm using a Nvidia Shield 2019 and a UB824 for Blu-rays


----------



## ice2hot

acting.absurd said:


> I will send the picture when I'm back home. As a screen I use a 110 inch 0.7 gain CLR (don't know the manufacturer) and as media player I'm using a Nvidia Shield 2019 and a UB824 for Blu-rays


Great. One thing that I did come across through many is that Apple TV seems to do better Justice to Dolby vision contents. Not sure to what extent. Have a look at that. Try setting the dv screen size and gain respective to your sceeen


----------



## manageablebits

clipghost said:


> How are you liking the gaming lag on this unit? Noticeable?


In game mode it's been ok for me so far, playable. I don't play competitive online much though.


----------



## ice2hot

It's been a long time since we got any update from the formovie team. I hope good progress is being made at their end for the previously raised questions. 
That.being said one function which was mentioned was.not available was.able to preset each viewing mode and change it and be stuck with user mode only. I hope the formovie team can add this function to preset all other viewing modes and not be stuck with being to user mode allowing more flexibility to everyone. 
Last if they can do anything on the hdr10+

Also would appreciate a good.update on the status of it by @Formovie Official team.


----------



## ahernandez001

Received my formovie theater and no picture comes up when I turned it on and now it doesn't turn off, has anyone else had this issue? The light in the front turns on, fans start blowing air, but nothing displays and it also doesn't turn off no matter how many times I press the power button


----------



## mirzank

ahernandez001 said:


> Received my formovie theater and no picture comes up when I turned it on and now it doesn't turn off, has anyone else had this issue? The light in the front turns on, fans start blowing air, but nothing displays and it also doesn't turn off no matter how many times I press the power button


that doesn’t sound good. Even if you have nothing plugged in you should be able to see the normal google tv Home Screen.
Did yoy buy it from China or locally in US?


----------



## ahernandez001

mirzank said:


> that doesn’t sound good. Even if you have nothing plugged in you should be able to see the normal google tv Home Screen.
> Did yoy buy it from China or locally in US?


I got it from projector screen, I think they're here in the US


----------



## iitywygms

Quick question. I use a nvidia shield to stream all content. The projector is used only to project the image.
On the shield, I have color space set to auto. I assume on the projector I should have color space set to off?
I read that auto does not work correctly. Or do I want color space on for the projector?


----------



## jayjay332

I just got the projector yesterday and once it installed it automatically updated to the latest firmware.

I have an issue with the Wifi once I turn it off seems like it goes to standby and does not actually turn off. 

When it it back on ( comes out of standby ) Wifi does not work and in the settings it does not detect any Wifi even if I turn off wifi off and on.

The only way to get it to work is to do a restart from the settings or unplug the power and plug it back in.

Any one else have this issue?


----------



## ice2hot

jayjay332 said:


> I just got the projector yesterday and once it installed it automatically updated to the latest firmware.
> 
> I have an issue with the Wifi once I turn it off seems like it goes to standby and does not actually turn off.
> 
> When it it back on ( comes out of standby ) Wifi does not work and in the settings it does not detect any Wifi even if I turn off wifi off and on.
> 
> The only way to get it to work is to do a restart from the settings or unplug the power and plug it back in.
> 
> Any one else have this issue?


You can turn of the power of the projector by pressing the power button for long and than you will get the pop up shutdown down the projector. No need for unplug. For the Wi-Fi no idea


----------



## jayjay332

ice2hot said:


> You can turn of the power of the projector by pressing the power button for long and than you will get the pop up shutdown down the projector. No need for unplug. For the Wi-Fi no idea


I never had a problem with the power I was just saying that I needed to power cycle to get the Wifi working again.


----------



## ice2hot

iitywygms said:


> Quick question. I use a nvidia shield to stream all content. The projector is used only to project the image.
> On the shield, I have color space set to auto. I assume on the projector I should have color space set to off?
> I read that auto does not work correctly. Or do I want color space on for the projector?


If you see the earlier posts where I had posted the calibration settings for the Formovie it was suggested to turn the color spacing on and than the color settings were done. So try those settings on the Formovie by turning it on and on the shield to keep it off. But than again not really sure about that now with two color spacing options


----------



## Dave Harper

acting.absurd said:


> I'm using the same settings on my unit but I have to say that Dolby Vision Content still looks flat. The Colors are not popping the way I imagined


If you have or are willing to get an HDFury device like the Vertex2, then you can try this new technique which really makes it look glorious:









Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on...


For the HDR metadata, I think what may be happening is this is enabling custom HDR with ST.2084 but without specifying min/max luminance, maxCLL and maxFALL. In particular, this will probably have greatest effect on projectors that use these values to adjust their HDR tone mapping curve (e.g...




www.avsforum.com







ahernandez001 said:


> Received my formovie theater and no picture comes up when I turned it on and now it doesn't turn off, has anyone else had this issue? The light in the front turns on, fans start blowing air, but nothing displays and it also doesn't turn off no matter how many times I press the power button


I believe you can pull the power cord and then hold down the power button for a long time while reinserting the power cord. This should reset the ForMovie back to factory default and hopefully rectify your issue. You may have to try it a couple times. 

I’ve seen this before.


----------



## Ricoflashback

iitywygms said:


> Quick question. I use a nvidia shield to stream all content. The projector is used only to project the image.
> On the shield, I have color space set to auto. I assume on the projector I should have color space set to off?
> I read that auto does not work correctly. Or do I want color space on for the projector?


With my Nvidia Shield Pro, I have turned off HDR (and DV) and with SDR, I get a phenomenal picture. We just watched Top Gun: Maverick and it was outstanding. On the Nvidia Shield Pro - - make sure to set to on the "Match Content On Color Space." For the Formovie GT1 - - Color Space is set to "Auto."

P.S. - with my Denon X6700H AVR - - I also turn on "upscaling" and sharpening. That results in an almost blu-ray like cable picture for me. Very sharp and colorful, even with older movies and content.


----------



## iitywygms

This projector has 3 color space options. On, Off and Auto.
My understanding is that Auto does not work correctly.
But what does the projector "do" when color space is set to on?
When it is off, what is the default? Rec 2020 or Rec 709?

Im asking these questions because I have an nvidia shield and it has the option to auto mactch color space.
My thinking is to let the shield do the conversion/switching, and have the projector set to off.
But I notice changes in the picture when switching the projector color space from on to off. And I am wondering why?
If the projector is receiving BT 2020 signal, then the image should not change because no conversion should happen. Right? Although I am probably not understainding what is going on.

Another reason I am exploring this is because i tried the calibration settings recommended in the pdf Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review, document which is pointed to earlier in this thread. Doing so made the image look like garbage. Blooming colors, bad contrast, dim image. But I believe thats because I had something wrong with the color space settings somewhere.

Edit.
I noticed that there is no mention in the calibratin doc about HDMI RGB Range. I assume that should be left to auto?


----------



## iitywygms

ice2hot said:


> If you see the earlier posts where I had posted the calibration settings for the Formovie it was suggested to turn the color spacing on and than the color settings were done. So try those settings on the Formovie by turning it on and on the shield to keep it off. But than again not really sure about that now with two color spacing options


Tried those settings and the image looked like garbage but I think it is becuase I have the color space set wrong somewhere. Still exploring. Thank you for the suggestion.


----------



## g3m

iitywygms said:


> This projector has 3 color space options. On, Off and Auto.
> My understanding is that Auto does not work correctly.
> But what does the projector "do" when color space is set to on?
> When it is off, what is the default? Rec 2020 or Rec 709?
> 
> Im asking these questions because I have an nvidia shield and it has the option to auto mactch color space.
> My thinking is to let the shield do the conversion/switching, and have the projector set to off.
> But I notice changes in the picture when switching the projector color space from on to off. And I am wondering why?
> If the projector is receiving BT 2020 signal, then the image should not change because no conversion should happen. Right? Although I am probably not understainding what is going on.
> 
> Another reason I am exploring this is because i tried the calibration settings recommended in the pdf Formovie Theater UST Laser TV Projector Review, document which is pointed to earlier in this thread. Doing so made the image look like garbage. Blooming colors, bad contrast, dim image. But I believe thats because I had something wrong with the color space settings somewhere.


This is answered in this review from Projector Central :



> One major important note is that the Advanced Video menu offers on option for Color Space that performs color space conversion. The selectable options are Auto, Off, and On. If *Auto or Off are selected, the Formovie uses its native color Space of BT.2020* and does not perform conversion to Rec.709, which will result in highly oversaturated color. This feature needs to be turned to On for conversion to take place. *When Color Space conversion is On, Rec.709 is displayed accurately as is DCI-P3 and BT.2020.*


----------



## Ricoflashback

Quick question for those of you who are using the Formovie GT1 with an AVR for sound. Every time I boot up my projector and turn my AVR on - - I always get the message "Turn on Formovie Speakers." I always want this set to "No," but there doesn't seem to be an option for that. I can always go to the menu on the rare occasion that I do not want to play the sound from my AVR speaker setup. Any fix or is this just the way it is?


----------



## iitywygms

g3m said:


> This is answered in this review from Projector Central :


Thank you.
I am not clear on this part.
_"fI Auto or Off are selected, the Formovie uses its native color Space of BT.2020 and does not perform conversion to Rec.709, which will result in highly oversaturated color."_

If the signal coming from the shield is already converted to the correct color space, then the projector should not do anything, right? So I would think that the projectors color space option should be set to off.

But it sounds like not setting the projectos color space to on will result in oversaturead colors no matter what? 
Is my understainding correct?


----------



## iitywygms

Ricoflashback said:


> Quick question for those of you who are using the Formovie GT1 with an AVR for sound. Every time I boot up my projector and turn my AVR on - - I always get the message "Turn on Formovie Speakers." I always want this set to "No," but there doesn't seem to be an option for that. I can always go to the menu on the rare occasion that I do not want to play the sound from my AVR speaker setup. Any fix or is this just the way it is?


I see a setting to turn speakers on and off under sound menu. I leave mine on and never get any sound through them when using the AVR. When I turn off the AVR, then sound comes though the projector.
My signal path is shield, AVR, projector if that matters.
Did you set that option to no?


----------



## Ricoflashback

iitywygms said:


> I see a setting to turn speakers on and off under sound menu. I leave mine on and never get any sound through them when using the AVR. When I turn off the AVR, then sound comes though the projector.
> My signal path is shield, AVR, projector if that matters.
> Did you set that option to no?


Much thanks - I'll try that. Maybe the Formovie projector recognizes that the AVR is on and shuts off the speaker with the internal Formovie speaker set to "On."

I have all inputs hooked up to my AVR - - Cable, Nvidia Shield Pro and my older OPPO 103 player.


----------



## Bossmann316

Bossmann316 said:


> Will the Formovie theater handle 50/24/23,976 fps at correct framerate or is it locked to 60hz ?


Google gives me nothing, can someone please help me ?


----------



## g3m

A couple of tips for people trying to get an "improved" dark room HDR10 picture mode without calibration tools. When I say "improved", I mean : having the best blacks and the best contrast when watching movies at night (no ambient light).

Start with the User picture mode. Apply the followings :

*Saturation *: Bring it to down to 40 instead of the default of 50. The default movie picture mode preset has a value of 40 and you can notice that many calibrated settings will have a similar saturation value for their HDR10 picture mode : 32, 40.
*Color Temperature* : Since this projector and UST in general are known to have a blue bias, using the Warm setting will reduce blue the most.
*Gamma : *Dark is 2.3, Middle is 2.1 and Bright is 1.8 (ref). For a dark room, try Dark. It will give more contrast compared to the other options. If you want to learn more about gamma with example pictures, check this article.
*Adaptive Luma Control : *This will dynamically adjust the brightness and contrast of the content. Low will provide more perceived contrast between light and dark shades and make it easier to see shadow details. Middle will provide deeper blacks.
*Local Contrast Control :* This will brighten the highlights to increase the perceived contrast. Use the low or middle option to increase perceived contrast without affecting the picture too much.
*Brightness : *After configuring the other picture settings above, tweak your brightness setting using an HDR10 plunge / black clipping pattern such as this one. Manipulate the value up and down until you can barely see blacks flashing at level 0.5% or 0.9%. This is an important step to do since all settings above could crush blacks too much and you will loose shadow details without the correct Brightness setting. I would also recommend to check your Brightness setting again after adjusting your contrast setting (below) to see if it has not been affected (there is a relationship between the two).
*Contrast *: Adjust with an HDR10 pattern such as this one and this one. By default, the Formovie tone map up to around 1000 nits with HDR10 content. Increase Contrast until you barely values around 1000 nits flashing. For DV, the Formovie tone map up to around 4000 nits.
Don't hesitate to share your experience and settings as well!


----------



## g3m

Bossmann316 said:


> Google gives me nothing, can someone please help me ?


It is locked at 60hz, but it will accept lower values (e.g., 24hz) and convert to 60hz (tested on Apple TV 4K). I prefer to set my ATV4K to forced 60hz to avoid the projector switching mode with no added value. You can do that if your source device can do the conversion.


----------



## Bossmann316

g3m said:


> It is locked at 60hz, but it will accept lower values (e.g., 24hz) and convert to 60hz (tested on Apple TV 4K). I prefer to set my ATV4K to forced 60hz to avoid the projector switching mode with no added value. You can do that if your source device can do the conversion.


Ok so 50 fps will play at 60hz , thats a no go for me . Thanks for answering


----------



## ice2hot

g3m said:


> A couple of tips for people trying to get an "improved" dark room HDR10 picture mode without calibration tools. When I say "improved", I mean : having the best blacks and the best contrast when watching movies at night (no ambient light).
> 
> Start with the User picture mode. Apply the followings :
> 
> *Saturation *: Bring it to down to 40 instead of the default of 50. The default movie picture mode preset has a value of 40 and you can notice that many calibrated settings will have a similar saturation value for their HDR10 picture mode : 32, 40.
> *Color Temperature* : Since this projector and UST in general are known to have a blue bias, using the Warm setting will reduce blue the most.
> *Gamma : *Dark is 2.3, Middle is 2.1 and Bright is 1.8 (ref). For a dark room, try Dark. It will give more contrast compared to the other options. If you want to learn more about gamma with example pictures, check this article.
> *Adaptive Luma Control : *Use the Middle option. The other options will make blacks appear more gray during dark scenes.
> *Local Contrast Control :* Use the Middle option to increase contrast without affecting the picture too much.
> *Brightness : *After configuring the other picture settings above, tweak your brightness setting using an HDR10 plunge / black clipping pattern such as this one. Manipulate the value up and down until you can barely see blacks flashing at level 0.5% or 0.9%. This is an important step to do since all settings above could crush blacks too much and you will loose shadow details without the correct Brightness setting. I would also recommend to check your Brightness setting again after adjusting your contrast setting (below) to see if it has not been affected (there is a relationship between the two).
> *Contrast *: Adjust with an HDR10 pattern such as this one and this one. By default (without using LLDV with a compatible device), I believe the Formovie tone map up to 1000 nits with HDR10 content. Increase Contrast until you barely values around 1000 nits flashing.
> Don't hesitate to share your experience and settings as well!


What about the cma and 11 point correction.



iitywygms said:


> Tried those settings and the image looked like garbage but I think it is becuase I have the color space set wrong somewhere. Still exploring. Thank you for the suggestion.


I'm surprised to hear that. I mean we are talking about professional calibrator here. They wouldn't mess this up. Did you try The content on prime before and after. Also try playing it via your media server such as plex and how it turns out. I'm still far away from home for 15 days or more so can't try them. Would love to hear that and pls share screen and video shots


----------



## g3m

ice2hot said:


> What about the cma and 11 point correction.


Modifications to the "color tuner" and "11 Point White Balance Correction" would need calibration tools since they are dependent on your setup: your particular unit (because of variance in the projector manufacturing process), your screen and your room. You can try the values provided by calibrators in online reviews to see if you like them but they probably won't be accurate for your own setup. The recommendations I provided can be applied to try to get better black details and contrast for dark room movie viewing without calibration tools.


----------



## g3m

iitywygms said:


> Thank you.
> I am not clear on this part.
> _"fI Auto or Off are selected, the Formovie uses its native color Space of BT.2020 and does not perform conversion to Rec.709, which will result in highly oversaturated color."_
> 
> If the signal coming from the shield is already converted to the correct color space, then the projector should not do anything, right? So I would think that the projectors color space option should be set to off.
> 
> But it sounds like not setting the projectos color space to on will result in oversaturead colors no matter what?
> Is my understainding correct?


I do not have the Shield so I can't directly comment on this particular device. However, if your source device sends a Rec.709 signal (typical SDR), you need to set Color Space to ON to have it correctly displayed by the projector. If you send a BT.2020 signal (typical HDR), the projector native Color Space can be used to have it displayed correctly. Color space is correctly set to AUTO (it's grayed out so you should not be able to change it) by the projector when it is in its HDR10 or Dolby Vision Mode.


----------



## iitywygms

ice2hot said:


> What about the cma and 11 point correction.
> 
> 
> I'm surprised to hear that. I mean we are talking about professional calibrator here. They wouldn't mess this up. Did you try The content on prime before and after. Also try playing it via your media server such as plex and how it turns out. I'm still far away from home for 15 days or more so can't try them. Would love to hear that and pls share screen and video shots


I'm not questioning the values that were posted. I'm sure they are really good. I think it has something to do with my color space settings. I just want to figure out and understand the color space settings before I go about tweaking colors and all those other values.


----------



## ice2hot

g3m said:


> Modifications to the "color tuner" and "11 Point White Balance Correction" would need calibration tools since they are dependent on your setup: your particular unit (because of variance in the projector manufacturing process), your screen and your room. You can try the values provided by calibrators in online reviews to see if you like them but they probably won't be accurate for your own setup. The recommendations I provided can be applied to try to get better black details and contrast for dark room movie viewing without calibration tools.


Damn, I was afraid of that. 
Now I have to hire a calibrator or get the tools needed for it. 
Any guidance would help. Would the calman be able to color tune or grade it automatically or would I need to manually configure it. Don't have a squat of knowledge on the 11 point correction. I'm doomed and here i was looking so forward to my movie nights. 
@Formovie Official why can't you just give us proper out of the box experience 😫 😩 😒 😤


----------



## g3m

ice2hot said:


> Damn, I was afraid of that.
> Now I have to hire a calibrator or get the tools needed for it.
> Any guidance would help. Would the calman be able to color tune or grade it automatically or would I need to manually configure it. Don't have a squat of knowledge on the 11 point correction. I'm doomed and here i was looking so forward to my movie nights.
> @Formovie Official why can't you just give us proper out of the box experience 😫 😩 😒 😤


I do not have experience in calibration so I unfortunately can't answer you fully. However, I know that you need a spectrophotometer to create a profile for a colorimeter to accurately calibrate laser-based projector like the Formovie Theater. I have a colorimeter that I use to calibrate my computer monitors, but without a spectro and the right software and skill set, it is not useful to calibrate this projector. With this being said, using the settings I posted, I find the picture satisfying in terms of black levels and contrast even if it's not fully accurate. Good luck!


----------



## iitywygms

g3m said:


> I do not have the Shield so I can't directly comment on this particular device. However, if your source device sends a Rec.709 signal (typical SDR), you need to set Color Space to ON to have it correctly displayed by the projector. If you send a BT.2020 signal (typical HDR), the projector native Color Space can be used to have it displayed correctly. Color space is correctly set to AUTO (it's grayed out so you should not be able to change it) by the projector when it is in its HDR10 or Dolby Vision Mode.


Thank you. So the native color space of the projector is BT.2020. (color space set to off)
Turning the color space on, on the projector converts BT.709 to BT.2020

The shield can output the signal in any format I want.
I currently have the shield outputting the video signal at 3840x2160 60hz YUV 422 12-bit Rec.2020

Witht that, I should not see the projector image change when switching the color space between off and on right?
But I do. A lot. Which means the projector is changing something even when the signal coming to it is Rec.2020

That does not make sense to me. What am I missing?


----------



## g3m

iitywygms said:


> Thank you. So the native color space of the projector is BT.2020. (color space set to off)
> Turning the color space on, on the projector converts BT.709 to BT.2020
> 
> The shield can output the signal in any format I want.
> I currently have the shield outputting the video signal at 3840x2160 60hz YUV 422 12-bit Rec.2020
> 
> Witht that, I should not see the projector image change when switching the color space between off and on right?
> But I do. A lot. Which means the projector is changing something even when the signal coming to it is Rec.2020
> 
> That does not make sense to me. What am I missing?


Since you are able to change the Color Space setting, I assume you are in the SDR picture mode. Have you tried engaging the HDR10 picture mode by configuring the Shield to send the HDR metadata? In the HDR10 picture mode, the projector picture settings will have an additional setting called "HDR" that you can turn ON and OFF (it's ON by default). If you turn it OFF when receiving an HDR signal (a typical Rec.2020 signal), the image will be washed out. Maybe the projector is not handling Rec.2020 signals correctly when in the SDR picture mode (even with the "correct" Color Space setting) and the HDR10 picture mode is needed for correct REC.2020 signal processing. I unfortunately only have the ATV4K to test so I can't speak from experience here.


----------



## iitywygms

g3m said:


> Since you are able to change the Color Space setting, I assume you are in the SDR picture mode. Have you tried engaging the HDR10 picture mode by configuring the Shield to send the HDR metadata? In the HDR10 picture mode, the projector picture settings will have an additional setting called "HDR" that you can turn ON and OFF (it's ON by default). If you turn it OFF when receiving an HDR signal (a typical Rec.2020 signal), the image will be washed out. Maybe the projector is not handling Rec.2020 signals correctly when in the SDR picture mode (even with the "correct" Color Space setting) and the HDR10 picture mode is needed for correct REC.2020 signal processing. I unfortunately only have the ATV4K to test so I can't speak from experience here.


I figured it out. When I changed the shields video out parameters, it disabled the hdr option on the shield for some reason. I did not see that until just now. I enabled it and its all good.
(I think having the shield automatically switch color space confused things)

In my case. Set the shield to always output 3840x2160 60Hz. YUV 420 10bit Rec. 2020 HDR10 Ready
Turn off color space on the projector.

Now, using the suggested cal settings makes for a awesome picture. Both SDR and HDR10 are jaw dropping IMO.
Thanks to all that helped. This forum is great.


----------



## ice2hot

iitywygms said:


> I figured it out. When I changed the shields video out parameters, it disabled the hdr option on the shield for some reason. I did not see that until just now. I enabled it and its all good.
> (I think having the shield automatically switch color space confused things)
> 
> In my case. Set the shield to always output 3840x2160 60Hz. YUV 420 10bit Rec. 2020 HDR10 Ready
> Turn off color space on the projector.
> 
> Now, using the suggested cal settings makes for a awesome picture. Both SDR and HDR10 are jaw dropping IMO.
> Thanks to all that helped. This forum is great.


Great to hear that. Is it the same calibration settings as per the project central team. Can you confirm which post you are referring to


----------



## iitywygms

ice2hot said:


> Great to hear that. Is it the same calibration settings as per the project central team. Can you confirm which post you are referring to


Yes. Using values the projector central team suggested. I did change some things. I set the brigtness and contrast using calibration videos from various sources. And I ended up raising the blue level a little because the image seemed to need it. To me anyway 
At first I went and set everything exactly as suggested. But after messing around a few times and dealing with the color space issue, I ended up not bothering with the point white balance correction. I did match the color tuning numbers.
Honestly, its hard to see a huge difference when enabling or disabling the color tuner and/or the white balance correction.
Those areas probably need to be set per each persons individual situation anyway.
Fortunatly, my screen is a Elite Screens Aeon CLR ambient light rejecting lenticular screen with a 0.6 gain. Just like the one they calibrated the projector to. Mine is at 123 inchs. The one they calibrated to was at 103 inches. I assume that is the reason my brigtness and contrast numbers are higher than the ones they suggested.


----------



## ice2hot

iitywygms said:


> Yes. Using values the projector central team suggested. I did change some things. I set the brigtness and contrast using calibration videos from various sources. And I ended up raising the blue level a little because the image seemed to need it. To me anyway
> At first I went and set everything exactly as suggested. But after messing around a few times and dealing with the color space issue, I ended up not bothering with the point white balance correction. I did match the color tuning numbers.
> Honestly, its hard to see a huge difference when enabling or disabling the color tuner and/or the white balance correction.
> Those areas probably need to be set per each persons individual situation anyway.
> Fortunatly, my screen is a Elite Screens Aeon CLR ambient light rejecting lenticular screen with a 0.6 gain. Just like the one they calibrated the projector to. Mine is at 123 inchs. The one they calibrated to was at 103 inches. I assume that is the reason my brigtness and contrast numbers are higher than the ones they suggested.


Well great. Would you be kind enough to share those numbers for 
hdr 
sdr
dv 
along with other parameters. I've got a vividstom alr 120.inch .6 gain screen

I'll also.give your settings a try seems they ahoukd work well.


----------



## maggieguy

ice2hot said:


> Well great. Would you be kind enough to share those numbers for
> hdr
> sdr
> dv
> along with other parameters. I've got a vividstom alr 120.inch .6 gain screen
> 
> I'll also.give your settings a try seems they ahoukd work well.


Have an identical setup inbound shortly. Would greatly appreciate your settings as a baseline to start from. Will be sending video directly from sources to Anthem AVM 70 and then to FM1 - No HD Fury in the chain.

Thank you in advance!


----------



## DesertDog

I just turned on my projector to find a pixel stuck on. It wasn't doing this in the morning when I last had it on. @Formovie Official or @ProjectionHead have you seen this before or know of a fix for it? I already brushed the outside lens to make sure there wasn't something on it. It's definitely stuck "on" in white. I've also tired switching modes and some of the picture settings to see if that would clear it like the botching issue. I'll try to do a reset tomorrow if I don't hear anything first. I like to give a heads up first incase Formovie needs additional testing. 

I need to get it fixed though. The location is really bad for dark scenes.


----------



## RickMes

DesertDog said:


> I just turned on my projector to find a pixel stuck on. It wasn't doing this in the morning when I last had it on. @Formovie Official or @ProjectionHead have you seen this before or know of a fix for it? I already brushed the outside lens to make sure there wasn't something on it. It's definitely stuck "on" in white. I've also tired switching modes and some of the picture settings to see if that would clear it like the botching issue. I'll try to do a reset tomorrow if I don't hear anything first. I like to give a heads up first incase Formovie needs additional testing.
> 
> I need to get it fixed though. The location is really bad for dark scenes.


I also have one that is only noticeable in black and near the screen, and since most of the time it ends up in lower letterbox bar, it doesn't bother me that much. However, now I fear that some more might eventually pop in the future (or have already and I just didn't find them yet). I did not know this could happen with DLP systems...


----------



## ACE844

DesertDog said:


> I just turned on my projector to find a pixel stuck on. It wasn't doing this in the morning when I last had it on. @Formovie Official or @ProjectionHead have you seen this before or know of a fix for it?


Maybe my experience will help you. I have the same issue as you and @RickMes. I wonder if this is a trend with a bad batch of chips they unknowingly put into a boatload of units? It's interesting that both a CN and global/Intl models are experiencing the same issue. Unless I'm just an 'unlucky in the %age of however many chips are expected to fail withing a certain percentage of a total manufacturing lot.

I have the same issue with my Cn version. It appeared randomly and nothing I've tried has solved the issue. I also tagged @Formovie Official here,and sent a PM....

Both were ignored.

I sent an email to their support email as I'm also still well within the warranty period. They came back with 2 questions which I answered those were
1) If you shake or move the T1 around does it resolve or change the issue?
For me it didn't
2.) If you change through various types and resolutions of content, does it change anything?
For me it didn't

They never responded back to that email or any follow ups.
Then I went to my original Point of Sale. They were much easier to engage with and actually got back to me. What the gist was. The unit needs a new DMD chip and or light engine. You can send it to Cn and wait 8 mos( I knew this was a risk when I purchased). We suggest you wait a month until Formovie has their USA based after sales repair facility operational and you'll be able to send it there.... We'll get back to you when it's open. Still waiting for them to re-engage when that is a possibility.


----------



## Ricoflashback

ACE844 said:


> Maybe my experience will help you. I have the same issue as you and @RickMes. I wonder if this is a trend with a bad batch of chips they unknowingly put into a boatload of units? It's interesting that both a CN and global/Intl models are experiencing the same issue. Unless I'm just an 'unlucky in the %age of however many chips are expected to fail withing a certain percentage of a total manufacturing lot.
> 
> I have the same issue with my Cn version. It appeared randomly and nothing I've tried has solved the issue. I also tagged @Formovie Official here,and sent a PM....
> 
> Both were ignored.
> 
> I sent an email to their support email as I'm also still well within the warranty period. They came back with 2 questions which I answered those were
> 1) If you shake or move the T1 around does it resolve or change the issue?
> For me it didn't
> 2.) If you change through various types and resolutions of content, does it change anything?
> For me it didn't
> 
> They never responded back to that email or any follow ups.
> Then I went to my original Point of Sale. They were much easier to engage with and actually got back to me. What the gist was. The unit needs a new DMD chip and or light engine. You can send it to Cn and wait 8 mos( I knew this was a risk when I purchased). We suggest you wait a month until Formovie has their USA based after sales repair facility operational and you'll be able to send it there.... We'll get back to you when it's open. Still waiting for them to re-engage when that is a possibility.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3379735
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3379734


Wow - that's definitely not kosher. Sorry to hear about these issues. I knew of stuck pixels with LCD TV's but not projectors. When I purchased my Global Theater T1 from Brian at projectorscreen.com - - I also purchased the two year extended warranty. I'm not sure if something like this would be covered under the warranty but I hope I never have to use it. Please keep us apprised of what's going on. Especially the U.S. based repair center.


----------



## jayjay332

For my situation I am looking for a portable screen that can easily moved in the house between different rooms.

I am currently looking at this one for my new formovie theatre what you guys think?









Amazon.com: Silver Ticket Products STO Series Indoor/Outdoor 16:9 4K / 8K Ultra HD, HDR & HDTV Ready Movie Projector Screen Front Projection White w/ Black Back, 150" Sliding Snap Frame with Stand STO-169150S : Electronics


Amazon.com: Silver Ticket Products STO Series Indoor/Outdoor 16:9 4K / 8K Ultra HD, HDR & HDTV Ready Movie Projector Screen Front Projection White w/ Black Back, 150" Sliding Snap Frame with Stand STO-169150S : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## iitywygms

ice2hot said:


> Well great. Would you be kind enough to share those numbers for
> hdr
> sdr
> dv
> along with other parameters. I've got a vividstom alr 120.inch .6 gain screen
> 
> I'll also.give your settings a try seems they ahoukd work well.


Everything is as suggested by the projector central team except.
I altered settings for brigtness, contrast, and blue gain.
I do not have a dv source so I cant offer anything for that setting.

HDR 
Brightness 64
Contrast 48
Blue Gain -25
SDR 
Brightness 58
Contrast 48
Blue Gain -20


----------



## g3m

For anyone looking to get a better Dolby Vision Dark tone mapping, I would recommend to experiment with the screen size and gain in the Dolby Vision menu.

It is well known that the DV Bright mode has better tone mapping in this projector VS the DV Dark mode. The Bright mode better preserves details in highlights and shadows compared to Dark mode. However, after reading Projector Central's review, it renewed my interest in Dark mode :



> *Dolby Vision Dark, on the other hand, had a more correct APL (average picture level) and fixed the lightly lifted blacks;* while the APL wasn't perfect compared to the OLED, it was the closest of the 3 picture modes... Ultimately, the presentation was good for all the modes I tried, though *if accuracy is what one is after, Dolby Vision Dark is where it is at.* If you want a brighter picture at the expense of slightly lighted blacks and a slightly higher APL, then Dolby Vision Bright would be your go-to picture mode.


After trial and error, I was able to bring the DV Dark mode tone mapping to a level comparable to Bright mode while keeping its benefits.

I have a 120 inches Vividstorm ALR screen with 0.6 gain. When using these values in the Dolby Vision menu in the projector, you get a decent DV Bright mode (I used 0.5 gain because it historically gave me better results). However, the Dark mode has blown highlights and a lot of details is lost. I was able to recover a good amount of details in Dark mode by reducing the screen size to 60 inches. Modifying the gain also as an effect on the tone mapping. The nice thing is that you can alter these values while viewing content to tweak them to your liking.

Screenshots below from the Dolby Vision version of Moana on Disney+ (7 minutes mark) on the ATV4K. You can see in the 3rd screenshot (60 inches, 0.5 gain) that a lot of details is recovered in the clouds and in the water where the sun is shinning.


----------



## DesertDog

ACE844 said:


> Maybe my experience will help you. I have the same issue as you and @RickMes. I wonder if this is a trend with a bad batch of chips they unknowingly put into a boatload of units? It's interesting that both a CN and global/Intl models are experiencing the same issue. Unless I'm just an 'unlucky in the %age of however many chips are expected to fail withing a certain percentage of a total manufacturing lot.
> 
> I have the same issue with my Cn version. It appeared randomly and nothing I've tried has solved the issue. I also tagged @Formovie Official here,and sent a PM....
> 
> Both were ignored.
> 
> I sent an email to their support email as I'm also still well within the warranty period. They came back with 2 questions which I answered those were
> 1) If you shake or move the T1 around does it resolve or change the issue?
> For me it didn't
> 2.) If you change through various types and resolutions of content, does it change anything?
> For me it didn't
> 
> They never responded back to that email or any follow ups.
> Then I went to my original Point of Sale. They were much easier to engage with and actually got back to me. What the gist was. The unit needs a new DMD chip and or light engine. You can send it to Cn and wait 8 mos( I knew this was a risk when I purchased). We suggest you wait a month until Formovie has their USA based after sales repair facility operational and you'll be able to send it there.... We'll get back to you when it's open. Still waiting for them to re-engage when that is a possibility.


Thanks for the info. I'm going to give those a try right now to see if I have any luck. I'm guessing that I'm going to be sending Brian an email in the morning though.


----------



## noonsa

g3m said:


> For anyone looking to get a better Dolby Vision Dark tone mapping, I would recommend to experiment with the screen size and gain in the Dolby Vision menu.
> 
> It is well known that the DV Bright mode has better tone mapping in this projector VS the DV Dark mode. The Bright mode better preserves details in highlights and shadows compared to Dark mode. However, after reading Projector Central's review, it renewed my interest in Dark mode :
> 
> 
> 
> After trial and error, I was able to bring the DV Dark mode tone mapping to a level comparable to Bright mode while keeping its benefits.
> 
> I have a 120 inches Vividstorm ALR screen with 0.6 gain. When using these values in the Dolby Vision menu in the projector, you get a decent DV Bright mode (I used 0.5 gain because it historically gave me better results). However, the Dark mode has blown highlights and a lot of details is lost. I was able to recover a good amount of details in Dark mode by reducing the screen size to 60 inches. Modifying the gain also as an effect on the tone mapping. The nice thing is that you can alter these values while viewing content to tweak them to your liking.
> 
> Screenshots below from the Dolby Vision version of Moana on Disney+ (7 minutes mark) on the ATV4K. You can see in the 3rd screenshot (60 inches, 0.5 gain) that a lot of details is recovered in the clouds and in the water where the sun is shinning.
> 
> View attachment 3380022


Thanks for this. I was also having an issue with blown out whites when viewing bright video with DV Dark. I was using Moana to try and get them under control, but never got any satisfactory results. Will be trying this out.


----------



## ice2hot

noonsa said:


> Thanks for this. I was also having an issue with blown out whites when viewing bright video with DV Dark. I was using Moana to try and get them under control, but never got any satisfactory results. Will be trying this out.


Pls share results 🙏


----------



## g3m

I did some more testing with Dolby Vision Bright VS Dark. I used the Infuse App on ATV4K to stream DVS Dolby Vision testing pattern files.

All tests have been done with DV options matching my screen size of 120 inches and gain of 0.6.

*BLACK CLIPPING

DV Bright has less black clipping than DV Dark*. Also, you can notice that the tone mapping curve for DV Dark is more aggressive toward darker shades below 7% black. I think this is part of the reason that blacks appear deepers in dark scenes for Dark mode (at the cost of more black clipping). For DV Dark mode, I think there is also some kind of image manipulation in dark scenes to increase perceived contrast, like what Adaptive Luma Control is doing for SDR and HDR10 picture modes. Unfortunately, Dark mode will clip blacks even more if you decrease your DV screen size to try to tame the blown highlight in bright scenes (see my previous post on DV). So this "hack" is not so good after all.










*WHITE CLIPPING*

For white clipping, I used a pattern created with a mastering display luminance of max 4000 nits. *Both DV Bright and Dark did good here and mapped similarly up to almost 4000 nits.* Since tone mapping is similar for both modes as you go up in nit values, it does not explain why DV Dark is blowing highlights in bright DV scenes (e.g., clouds @ 7 mins in Moana on Disney+) while DV Bright is not. I do not have the explication yet, maybe it is in the interpretation of bright scenes DV metadata or some additional image manipulation done by the projector. Maybe it is some king of bug in the DV Dark mode implementation. It is hard to tell if it's working as intended of not (maybe @Formovie Official could tell us).


----------



## JackB

I would like to request Formovie to create a firmware upgrade to contain a masking/blanking feature. This would allow the eliminating the overlap of the picture at the boarders of the screen. As most owners know, true alignment of the picture with these UST projectors is very difficult and sometimes impossible to attain. Also, the extreme brightness of a UST makes the overlap very noticeable at the black edges of the screen. This phenomenon is usually most pronounced and visible on the sides. A masking/blanking function does not distort the pixels as does a keystone adjustment feature.

Most all front projectors at these UST price levels have this feature and if you’ve ever used it you know it does wonders for the presentation. Therefore the Formovie engineers should be able to research this and add the feature with no great expense. It’s been done many times before.


----------



## Joered101

anyone else notices a strange gamma situation with HDR?

Tried with Plex and my computer, especcially noticable when viewing sdr content,( while in HDR mode on windows, SDR is fine outside of HDR move) some things looks strangely washed out and can't fix it with any of the gamma presets... from experience it seems like a gamma curve issue to me, and wondering if anyone has any fixes or ways around? as it makes some scenes look really strange and really noticable. I can provide screenshots however i think it might be hard to see on camera.... As a photogrpaher i notce it effects the midtones of the image the most, which annoyingly a lot of faces fall into and so it's really noticable if someones face has a weird gamma defect going on, killing my experience damn!

Let me know if anyone else has noticed this?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> I would like to request Formovie to create a firmware upgrade to contain a masking/blanking feature. This would allow the eliminating the overlap of the picture at the boarders of the screen. As most owners know, true alignment of the picture with these UST projectors is very difficult and sometimes impossible to attain. Also, the extreme brightness of a UST makes the overlap very noticeable at the black edges of the screen. This phenomenon is usually most pronounced and visible on the sides. A masking/blanking function does not distort the pixels as does a keystone adjustment feature.
> 
> Most all front projectors at these UST price levels have this feature and if you’ve ever used it you know it does wonders for the presentation. Therefore the Formovie engineers should be able to research this and add the feature with no great expense. It’s been done many times before.


I've never heard of this "masking/blanking" feature. If it truly worked, that would be great. Hopefully, were talking about the same thing - - the faint, white shadow around the frame. Especially noticeable in a very dark room. Stewart Filmscreen is supposed to have a screen (pricey) that handles that and I'm waiting for Brian to receive his sample screen from Stewart with the BlackHawk UST fabric. I'm not sure Formovie or any other UST projector manufacturer can cure this problem due to the extreme angle of projection.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> I've never heard of this "masking/blanking" feature. If it truly worked, that would be great. Hopefully, were talking about the same thing - - the faint, white shadow around the frame. Especially noticeable in a very dark room. Stewart Filmscreen is supposed to have a screen (pricey) that handles that and I'm waiting for Brian to receive his sample screen from Stewart with the BlackHawk UST fabric. I'm not sure Formovie or any other UST projector manufacturer can cure this problem due to the extreme angle of projection.


Masking or blanking is the ability of the firmware to either cut off or insert black row by row on all four sides of the screen. It's used as the final adjustment after going through the normal physical adjustment for alignment. It does not stretch or compress the pixel lines as does keystone adjustment. I'm no technical expert on this, it's just my estimate of how it works. My screen is an electric tensioned screen with two inch black borders. So no white shadow.

That being said, I decided to use keystone adjustment on my Formovie. Luckily, my very old eyes cannot see any degradation of the picture quality. A masking/blanking feature would be a nice addition though.


----------



## DesertDog

g3m said:


> I did some more testing with Dolby Vision Bright VS Dark. I used the Infuse App on ATV4K to stream DVS Dolby Vision testing pattern files.
> 
> All tests have been done with DV options matching my screen size of 120 inches and gain of 0.6.
> 
> *BLACK CLIPPING
> 
> DV Bright has less black clipping than DV Dark*. Also, you can notice that the tone mapping curve for DV Dark is more aggressive toward darker shades below 7% black. I think this is part of the reason that blacks appear deepers in dark scenes for Dark mode (at the cost of more black clipping). For DV Dark mode, I think there is also some kind of image manipulation in dark scenes to increase perceived contrast, like what Adaptive Luma Control is doing for SDR and HDR10 picture modes. Unfortunately, Dark mode will clip blacks even more if you decrease your DV screen size to try to tame the blown highlight in bright scenes (see my previous post on DV). So this "hack" is not so good after all.
> 
> View attachment 3380581
> 
> 
> *WHITE CLIPPING*
> 
> For white clipping, I used a pattern created with a mastering display luminance of max 4000 nits. *Both DV Bright and Dark did good here and mapped similarly up to almost 4000 nits.* Since tone mapping is similar for both modes as you go up in nit values, it does not explain why DV Dark is blowing highlights in bright DV scenes (e.g., clouds @ 7 mins in Moana on Disney+) while DV Bright is not. I do not have the explication yet, maybe it is in the interpretation of bright scenes DV metadata or some additional image manipulation done by the projector. Maybe it is some king of bug in the DV Dark mode implementation. It is hard to tell if it's working as intended of not (maybe @Formovie Official could tell us).
> 
> View attachment 3380594


One thing to note, I think either the ATV or Infuse has a black clipping issue with DV. I'm not sure if that'll throw your comparison off or not. When I play the pattern through them I get the same result as I got on my Zidoo before they issued their fix for it. After their fix the Zidoo goes a bit lower than the ATV+Infuse combo. I haven't really dug into it since I mainly use the Zidoo now but I did observe that when I was playing with test patterns around the time ZIdoo did their fix.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Masking or blanking is the ability of the firmware to either cut off or insert black row by row on all four sides of the screen. It's used as the final adjustment after going through the normal physical adjustment for alignment. It does not stretch or compress the pixel lines as does keystone adjustment. I'm no technical expert on this, it's just my estimate of how it works. My screen is an electric tensioned screen with two inch black borders. So no white shadow.
> 
> That being said, I decided to use keystone adjustment on my Formovie. Luckily, my very old eyes cannot see any degradation of the picture quality. A masking/blanking feature would be a nice addition though.


Maybe it's because you have an electric, tensioned screen but with a fixed screen, there is a faint white light outline around the frame. It's very noticeable. Perhaps the light falls off and is not viewable on your screen with a 2" border and the distance from the screen to the wall (three to six inches?) At any rate, I'm not counting on Formovie fixing this. Make no mistake, I'm still very thrilled with the unit but this a problem that needs to be addressed for fixed screen, UST users.


----------



## JackB

Ricoflashback said:


> Maybe it's because you have an electric, tensioned screen but with a fixed screen, there is a faint white light outline around the frame. It's very noticeable. Perhaps the light falls off and is not viewable on your screen with a 2" border and the distance from the screen to the wall (three to six inches?) At any rate, I'm not counting on Formovie fixing this. Make no mistake, I'm still very thrilled with the unit but this a problem that needs to be addressed for fixed screen, UST users.


I have seen that when the line reaches my white wall during physical adjustment. It doesn’t show on the black border. Have you tried the keystone adjustment tool? You never know, maybe it will erase that line.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> I have seen that when the line reaches my white wall during physical adjustment. It doesn’t show on the black border. Have you tried the keystone adjustment tool? You never know, maybe it will erase that line.


No way to erase the line. If I use the keystone adjustment and move it too far into the screen (left, right, up or down) - the image doesn't cover the whole screen. I'm hoping the Stewart Filmscreen new bezel design will eliminate the white shadow. We'll find out soon enough when Brian at projectorscreen.com gets his new screen with the BlackHawk UST material.


----------



## DanBa

Any info about a new version of Formovie Theater that can interface with the CalMan auto-calibration software like the LG HU915QB?








LG CineBeam HU915QB 4K Laser Projector Review - Projector Reviews


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www.projectorreviews.com


----------



## Fox&304

g3m said:


> For anyone looking to get a better Dolby Vision Dark tone mapping, I would recommend to experiment with the screen size and gain in the Dolby Vision menu.
> 
> It is well known that the DV Bright mode has better tone mapping in this projector VS the DV Dark mode. The Bright mode better preserves details in highlights and shadows compared to Dark mode. However, after reading Projector Central's review, it renewed my interest in Dark mode :
> 
> 
> 
> After trial and error, I was able to bring the DV Dark mode tone mapping to a level comparable to Bright mode while keeping its benefits.
> 
> I have a 120 inches Vividstorm ALR screen with 0.6 gain. When using these values in the Dolby Vision menu in the projector, you get a decent DV Bright mode (I used 0.5 gain because it historically gave me better results). However, the Dark mode has blown highlights and a lot of details is lost. I was able to recover a good amount of details in Dark mode by reducing the screen size to 60 inches. Modifying the gain also as an effect on the tone mapping. The nice thing is that you can alter these values while viewing content to tweak them to your liking.
> 
> Screenshots below from the Dolby Vision version of Moana on Disney+ (7 minutes mark) on the ATV4K. You can see in the 3rd screenshot (60 inches, 0.5 gain) that a lot of details is recovered in the clouds and in the water where the sun is shinning.
> 
> View attachment 3380022


Yup, been saying for months that the screen size/gain values are messed up if you set up to the correct values. Did the same as you, tried some extreme values to see how it affected my calibration, and same conclusion, I need values way different to my setup to get back some burnt highlights for example.


----------



## g3m

Fox&304 said:


> Yup, been saying for months that the screen size/gain values are messed up if you set up to the correct values. Did the same as you, tried some extreme values to see how it affected my calibration, and same conclusion, I need values way different to my setup to get back some burnt highlights for example.


It's unfortunate that there is no custom Dolby Vision mode where we could modify the tone mapping curve directly (e.g., with a slider) and unlock the adaptive luma control option for better perceived contrast. Lets face it, Dolby Vision modes on this projector are not perfect and we can argue they are bugged (e.g, Dark mode blown highlights). I can understand the difficulty of implementing DV compared to a TV since there are more variables at play (screen size and gain). Until Formovie can fix these issues, it would be nice to give users the ability to tweak all DV options with a custom mode.

I went back to LLDV (using HDFury) and I can pretty much reproduce the Dolby Vision Dark mode excellent perceived contrast in dark scenes by applying a "low" adaptive luma control (which you can't do with the built-in DV modes). By finding the right LLDV MaxLum value (using 250 for this projector at the moment), I was able to fix blown highlights as well. I really wanted to make the default DV modes work, but there are too many compromises at the moment so I'm back to LLDV. DV Bright has good tone mapping, but dark scenes are lacking perceived contrast and that can clearly be seen by switching between DV Bright and Dark.


----------



## JackB

g3m said:


> It's unfortunate that there is no custom Dolby Vision mode where we could modify the tone mapping curve directly (e.g., with a slider) and unlock the adaptive luma control option for better perceived contrast. Lets face it, Dolby Vision modes on this projector are not perfect and we can argue they are bugged (e.g, Dark mode blown highlights). I can understand the difficulty of implementing DV compared to a TV since there are more variables at play (screen size and gain). Until Formovie can fix these issues, it would be nice to give users the ability to tweak all DV options with a custom mode.
> 
> I went back to LLDV (using HDFury) and I can pretty much reproduce the Dolby Vision Dark mode excellent perceived contrast in dark scenes by applying a "low" adaptive luma control (which you can't do with the built-in DV modes). By finding the right LLDV MaxLum value (using 250 for this projector at the moment), I was able to fix blown highlights as well. I really wanted to make the default DV modes work, but there are too many compromises at the moment so I'm back to LLDV. DV Bright has good tone mapping, but dark scenes are lacking perceived contrast and that can clearly be seen by switching between DV Bright and Dark.


When you use lldv does the Formovie recognize it as hdr or SDR? Is the hdr toggle available with lldv?


----------



## g3m

JackB said:


> When you use lldv does the Formovie recognize it as hdr or SDR? Is the hdr toggle available with lldv?


The HDFury device will add the HDR flag to the LLDV signal sent by the compatible player (in my case the ATV4K). When receiving the signal, the projector goes in its HDR10 picture mode and the HDR toggle is available.


----------



## maggieguy

Just received and setup my Formovie Theater. Have been a self confessed home theater addict for decades, but could never bring myself to spend the money needed to put a projector into the mix. In my mind, that was money that could be spent on my other addiction, two channel audio... After reading about the projector shootout, I finally succumbed to the siren song of a larger viewing experience. Black Friday found me with credit card in hand pulling the trigger on a Formovie and 120" ALR screen.

Bottom Line Up Front: The experience has been close to glorious and the ability to watch all but the dimmest content (Dark Knight anyone) with ambient light is a revelation. I am still stumbling my way through the settings and am trying to integrate the calibration settings from multiple sources cited in this thread. I currently have the projector and screen "roughed in" as we will be running cable channels through the walls and moving all of the system components into a closet based rack. Even in this immature state, I am having a ball with this setup.

We as humans tend to focus on criticisms first. I have a few that will be constructive, but I would like to lead with the positives.

The good:

Top of my list is this forum! I have been a member for years and in every case, I have been able to wring maximum performance and more importantly, enjoyment from new gear because of the generous and knowledgeable contributors to threads such as these. I thank all of you.
Basic setup (picture settings notwithstanding) was very straight forward and intuitive
With an ethernet connection I have had no network hiccups
HDMI handshakes have been rock solid
Though the projector uses Android/Google to provide streaming content, I am able to completely bypass the "Google-verse" and treat this projector as a dumb monitor without setting up an account. This is a rarity and refreshing for someone such as myself that DOES NOT want my device logged into an exploitative company
My unit will be hidden behind a center channel speaker, but aesthetically, the unit is handsome
The price - $3K in this inflated economy for a projector that nips at the heels of much more expensive traditional projectors is just a great step forward for value oriented enthusiasts such as myself
The picture! I have miles to go before I can say I have I have successfully fine tuned this unit, but myself, my wife,friends, neighbors, etc are all stunned by how good this projector looks with all of the content we have put through it thus far. Is it an OLED, no, but I don't think 123 inches of this can be compared to an OLED that might be blacker and more accurate, but cant provide the immersive experience that we have had over the past few days and nights
The OEM is on this forum and openly communicating with its customers!!! @Formovie Official, I thank you for taking the time and effort to engage with your customers. This is the exception and so encouraging for a relatively new market entrant. Please all, let's not take this presence for granted and find our most constructive voice with our Formovie teammates
The less than optimal:


Manual is a disappointment for something that costs this much especially when there is no online manual (that I could find).
My projector has numerous scratches along the top of the unit... Will I ever see them, probably not, but this is a NEW device and I find this unacceptable from a quality control perspective
Bluetooth remote... It works great (thus far), but not having the ability to integrate my new projector into an automation ecosystem such as Harmony, or something else is a misfire for the home theater crowd. An IR port on the back would have been nice
Focus. I had hoped that the upper left corner issue was due to early manufacturing issues. This is not the case and there is no way that someone at Formovie could not have noticed that this issue existed if they were taking even the most rudimentary quality control measures
The fan is quite noticeable and given where the projector sits relative to a center channel speaker, you can't help but focus on it
The picture settings menu - pretty much everything that has been said by others. I LOVE the fact that Formovie has given us such detailed inputs. For that I applaud them. But being able to reuse settings across different modes/inputs is a much needed improvement. When highlighting a setting, something should tell you what that setting does (hobbyist, not a full time pro) and being able to toggle modes on the fly would be welcome
No lens cover. Even if it was manual the need to keep the lens debris free is obvious. An automatically retracting shutter would be a nice touch for the next gen projector
Overall, I am thrilled with my decision to buy the Formovie Theater and I am convinced that the handful of common constructive criticisms can be addressed via progressive firmware updates by the Formovie team. I also look forward to continued collaboration with this incredible sub-forum as we optimize our viewing experience over the next few months.


----------



## DesertDog

maggieguy said:


> The less than optimal:
> 
> 
> My projector has numerous scratches along the top of the unit... Will I ever see them, probably not, but this is a NEW device and I find this unacceptable from a quality control perspective
> The fan is quite noticeable and given where the projector sits relative to a center channel speaker, you can't help but focus on it
> No lens cover. Even if it was manual the need to keep the lens debris free is obvious. An automatically retracting shutter would be a nice touch for the next gen projector


Congrats! They're great to have. For these three items. The lack of lens cover does suck. If you haven't already order a Nikon lens brush. They're $9 on amazon and nice to keep next to it. 

How loud is your fan? Can you get a dB reading? Mine isn't very loud. Barely notice it when it's on with nothing playing . If I play anything I don't notice it. How's your ventilation around it? Their manual called for a ton of space on each side. My setup is wide open which might be keeping the noise down. 

Having scratches along the top out of the box is bad QC. They shouldn't be shipping like that. Here's a tip though of something I did with mine. I ordered a roll of the self adhesive velvet flocking liner that's used for jewelry boxes and drawers for another use but had the idea of cover the top of the GT1 with it too. So I cut strips and covered the top. Works amazing. There's no more of that little bit of reflection off the top of the unit. It pretty much disappears when in use. I also covered the shelf that it sits on since it was glossy and reflecting a ton of light.


----------



## maggieguy

DesertDog said:


> Congrats! They're great to have. For these three items. The lack of lens cover does suck. If you haven't already order a Nikon lens brush. They're $9 on amazon and nice to keep next to it.
> 
> How loud is your fan? Can you get a dB reading? Mine isn't very loud. Barely notice it when it's on with nothing playing . If I play anything I don't notice it. How's your ventilation around it? Their manual called for a ton of space on each side. My setup is wide open which might be keeping the noise down.
> 
> Having scratches along the top out of the box is bad QC. They shouldn't be shipping like that. Here's a tip though of something I did with mine. I ordered a roll of the self adhesive velvet flocking liner that's used for jewelry boxes and drawers for another use but had the idea of cover the top of the GT1 with it too. So I cut strips and covered the top. Works amazing. There's no more of that little bit of reflection off the top of the unit. It pretty much disappears when in use. I also covered the shelf that it sits on since it was glossy and reflecting a ton of light.


Thanks for the recommendations. 

Had already positioned one of my camera lens brushes in the media room 

Unit is completely open and the room is quite well ventilated. As soon as I turn it on, I can hear the fan. It's not a banshee wail or anything horrible, but definitely generates a noticeable hum right behind my center channel speaker. It disappears when I play something for obvious reasons.

Clever idea regarding the velvet flocking. I'll keep that in mind for once I do the full install.

Question for you and the group. I have the built in speakers turned off due to having a surround system. It keeps asking me if I want to turn them on... I thought this might be a one and done new install issue. Nope. It asks me every time I turn the system on. Another minor annoyance that I hope is an easy fix with a Firmware update.


----------



## oplop

maggieguy said:


> Thanks for the recommendations.
> 
> Had already positioned one of my camera lens brushes in the media room
> 
> Unit is completely open and the room is quite well ventilated. As soon as I turn it on, I can hear the fan. It's not a banshee wail or anything horrible, but definitely generates a noticeable hum right behind my center channel speaker. It disappears when I play something for obvious reasons.
> 
> Clever idea regarding the velvet flocking. I'll keep that in mind for once I do the full install.
> 
> Question for you and the group. I have the built in speakers turned off due to having a surround system. It keeps asking me if I want to turn them on... I thought this might be a one and done new install issue. Nope. It asks me every time I turn the system on. Another minor annoyance that I hope is an easy fix with a Firmware update.


You can probably just leave the built in speaker setting on. If you have an AVR connected to the projector (and HDMI control enabled), no sound will be output from the internal speakers even if built in speakers are set on.


----------



## Fox&304

Is there a definitive answer on wether this device supports VRR ? When setting up PS5 I see that it's shown as compatible on the 43/60Hz range, not sure what it means exactly. Does that mean that it can do VRR, but only up to 60hz content ?


----------



## Ricoflashback

oplop said:


> You can probably just leave the built in speaker setting on. If you have an AVR connected to the projector (and HDMI control enabled), no sound will be output from the internal speakers even if built in speakers are set on.


Yes - this worked for me with an AVR. But I also disabled HDMI control (CEC) on everything in my chain (Formovie GT1, Denon AVR, Blu-ray and Nvidia Shield Player.) Now, I don't get the crazy "input" changes at boot up and everything is controlled by my AVR, input wise. I can also do minute "Keystone" corrections without losing the connection to my source. Nice.

I also get zero reflections on my unit from my Formovie Global T1 projector so I'm not sure what that is all about. I have an ALR screen.


----------



## galego100

DesertDog said:


> Congrats! They're great to have. For these three items. The lack of lens cover does suck. If you haven't already order a Nikon lens brush. They're $9 on amazon and nice to keep next to it.


Which ones, 52 mm, 58 mm or 67 mm ?


----------



## Ricoflashback

galego100 said:


> Which ones, 52 mm, 58 mm or 67 mm ?





https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006JN3G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## jdtss

.


----------



## maggieguy

oplop said:


> You can probably just leave the built in speaker setting on. If you have an AVR connected to the projector (and HDMI control enabled), no sound will be output from the internal speakers even if built in speakers are set on.


I may resort to this if it becomes too annoying over time. I'm not a fan of any sort of HDMI control schema. Have always regretted turning them on... My hope is that Formovie can make this fix via firmware. There are literally dozens of other settings labeled On/Off that I do not get a reminder of. This one should be no different.

I am off to watch DUNE. Can't wait.


----------



## galego100

I'm almost decided to buy a Formovei Theater , I'm just having second thoughts between an '83 OLED and this one . In your opinion is it really much different for the better? Or with 83 OLED i have too cinematic experience?


----------



## ice2hot

galego100 said:


> I'm almost decided to buy a Formovei Theater , I'm just having second thoughts between an '83 OLED and this one . In your opinion is it really much different for the better? Or with 83 OLED i have too cinematic experience?


There is no comparison on the experience with an oled. Best thing to do is for an immersive experience keep the viewing distance to 9-10 feet from it. You will have a great time with it. If you have the extra funds, than I would advise to get a projector.


----------



## galego100

ice2hot said:


> There is no comparison on the experience with an oled. Best thing to do is for an immersive experience keep the viewing distance to 9-10 feet from it. You will have a great time with it. If you have the extra funds, than I would advise to get a projector.


I have the budget for Formovie Theater. Later ( April) i will get a vividstorm floor screen...
I´m, OLED fan , that´s why i have some doubts, but i really love the cinematic experience.


----------



## Ricoflashback

galego100 said:


> I have the budget for Formovie Theater. Later ( April) i will get a vividstorm floor screen...
> I´m, OLED fan , that´s why i have some doubts, but i really love the cinematic experience.


I differ on the OLED experience. We have a 65" Sony OLED in our bedroom. It's great and a very pristine picture. But nothing beats the cinematic experience of my 100" Formovie Theater projector where I sit about 10 feet away from the screen. It's also easier on the eyes and there are colors that I notice on my Formovie projector that aren't as noticeable with my OLED TV. Clothing, old cars, old flicks have come to life with my Formovie GT1. All personal preference. You can't go wrong with either choice.


----------



## galego100

Ricoflashback said:


> I differ on the OLED experience. We have a 65" Sony OLED in our bedroom. It's great and a very pristine picture. But nothing beats the cinematic experience of my 100" Formovie Theater projector where I sit about 10 feet away from the screen. It's also easier on the eyes and there are colors that I notice on my Formovie projector that aren't as noticeable with my OLED TV. Clothing, old cars, old flicks have come to life with my Formovie GT1. All personal preference. You can't go wrong with either choice.


That´s my idea , keep the OLED 65 and move it to the bedroom , and put the Formovie in the living room.


----------



## ice2hot

galego100 said:


> That´s my idea , keep the OLED 65 and move it to the bedroom , and put the Formovie in the living room.


Or you can do what I did.









New video by zeeshan nasir







photos.app.goo.gl


----------



## Sonny Red

galego100 said:


> I'm almost decided to buy a Formovei Theater , I'm just having second thoughts between an '83 OLED and this one . In your opinion is it really much different for the better? Or with 83 OLED i have too cinematic experience?


I have a Sony OLED 83A90J and since last September also a Formovie Theater and since that day my Sony OLED is never turn on in the evening.

Nothing beats the immersive size. Period.

I was a big fan of the deep blacks of an OLED screen but sizer is even more important and the blacks on the Formovie Theater are very good for a UST.


----------



## JackB

Sonny Red said:


> I have a Sony OLED 83A90J and since last September also a Formovie Theater and since that day my Sony OLED is never turn on in the evening.
> 
> Nothing beats the immersive size. Period.
> 
> I was a big fan of the deep blacks of an OLED screen but sizer is even more important and the blacks on the Formovie Theater are very good for a UST.


I have the same Sony but in 77"s. But I'm having trouble getting the Formovie to be anything close to the Sony. I know the blacks and contrast won't be close but I would at least hope I could get close to the same color coverage and basic picture balance. That hasn't happened yet. I would pay for a calibration but finding one in my location has proven to be difficult.


----------



## Jimmy22

I received my unit and did a first test of the On/Off contrast.
For the test I created a black test pattern with 4 small white 10x10 pixel blocks in the corners, to be sure that there is no dimming going on. It looks like this:










The measured values I got was 0.042 cd/m² black luminance and 121 cd/m² white luminance = contrast of around 2880:1. I measured it with my i1 Display Colorimeter, as my spectrometer is not sufficient at reading these kind of black values (I believe 0.1 cd/m² is the darkest my spectro can read).
In conclusion I can state, that the contrast of almost 3000:1 is real. BTW it was in the "User" Color temp setting, which has a Greyscale of around 7000 to 8000 Kelvin. After perfect calibration to 6500 Kelvin the contrast value may drop a little bit further, but not much I guess.
I connected a PC via HDMI with the projector.

What I find weird is that the contrast was much worse with the inbuilt Youtube App.
I first measured a black and a white test pattern from Youtube and only got around 1000:1.
Thankfully with my PC and correctly matched HDMI levels it was much better.

In conclusion the contrast performance is good for a DLP projector.
All testing was done on a white wall, because I have not assembled the Epson CLR screen yet. With the screen, the On/Off contrast will be the same, but the Ansi or intrascene contrast should be much better. I am very curious how the picture will look on the screen instead of the wall.

The focus uniformity is also okay with my unit, but the sharpness overall is not on par with good front projectors. It looks a little bit softer overall and I can't see individual pixels like I have seen with other 4K shift DLP units before. But to be fair I expected this before I bought it and I think that most UST projectors suffer from this.

Oh, and the fan noise is really low, it is low pitched and unobstrusive.
I thought it would be louder, but that's another Plus for the projector.

The "Color Space" setting must be turned to On instead of Automatic, otherwise the colors are way too oversaturated with a PC, which sends out BT709. But even with the setting to On, I can see that I have to calibrate the unit, because especially the reds tend to look a bit muted and appear a bit orange or brown in tone.


@ *Vladimirovich*

I hope that the measurement helped a bit.
I also want to measure the Ansi contrast, but I have to find a way to measure it with my i1 Display colorimeter. It has a wider lens than my spectrometer though, which makes it more tricky. But that's for later when I have more time.


----------



## JDChawk55

Hi, looking for some help on a recent dark spot showing on the bottom of my picture. I've confirmed it's not the screen and have used a lens brush to dust the top. Could it be a blob of dust inside of the projector? Is it advised to blow some condensed air through the vent?

Appreciate the help!


----------



## mjana

Hi, I recently got a formovie from ProjectorScreen. The picture quality looks great but am seeing a couple of issues with my device 

-Not able to play Dolby vision videos (tried on Apple TV, prime and Disney built-in apps). Video plays for few secs and then get stuck completely..either frozen or blank screen. It happens only with Dolby vision content

- Losing audio very frequently in the middle of playback and it goes silent. Once lost, no audio for any apps on device until it’s gets either restarted or hard off/on by plugging out. I feel it happens mainly with Dolby atmos.

With both these issues, am not able to test and use the projector with Dolby content. I am not sure if it’s a defect with the device or built in apps. Does anybody else see these issues? Kindly help!


----------



## Patrick G

maggieguy said:


> The less than optimal:
> 
> My projector has numerous scratches along the top of the unit... Will I ever see them, probably not, but this is a NEW device and I find this unacceptable from a quality control perspective
> Focus. I had hoped that the upper left corner issue was due to early manufacturing issues. This is not the case and there is no way that someone at Formovie could not have noticed that this issue existed if they were taking even the most rudimentary quality control measures.


As a probable buyer, these two items have me worried.


----------



## DesertDog

JDChawk55 said:


> Hi, looking for some help on a recent dark spot showing on the bottom of my picture. I've confirmed it's not the screen and have used a lens brush to dust the top. Could it be a blob of dust inside of the projector? Is it advised to blow some condensed air through the vent?
> 
> Appreciate the help!


That looks like a spec of dust to me. It has a similar look and coloring to when that's an issue for me. Double check the top lens with your brush. Try with the more scrubby end of it over the retractable end with the long bristles. It might be a little smudge. If not try blowing air through the vent. I haven't done that yet myself but earlier in either this thread of the T1 thread people were saying to you a light blowing fan and not to use condensed air. I don't know what the reasoning was for that though.


----------



## maggieguy

Patrick G said:


> As a probable buyer, these two items have me worried.


Since I made those comments. I want to chime in after a few more days with the projector.

First and foremost, I stand by them and hope that the Formovie team will use them as constructive feedback for product and customer service optimization.

That being said, I also stand by all of my positive comments. My wife and I are having an amazing first week with the Formovie. She is a die hard Trekkie and we just binged "Strange New Worlds". The DV content has been a tad dim, but the detail and immersiveness are just stunning. We also watched Batman Dark Knight along with Dune - Incredible,

Simply put, the ownership experience has been very good and I hope the improvements we are suggesting to Formovie can help make it even better.


----------



## mjana

maggieguy said:


> Since I made those comments. I want to chime in after a few more days with the projector. First and foremost, I stand by them and hope that the Formovie team will use them as constructive feedback for product and customer service optimization. That being said, I also stand by all of my positive comments. My wife and I are having an amazing first week with the Formovie. She is a die hard Trekkie and we just binged "Strange New Worlds". The DV content has been a tad dim, but the detail and immersiveness are just stunning. We also watched Batman Dark Knight along with Dune - Incredible, Simply put, the ownership experience has been very good and I hope the improvements we are suggesting to Formovie can help make it even better.


 Glad you liked the pj… I am unsuccessful in watching DV content till now.. the built in apps always get stuck on DV video or lose audio in the middle. Just wondering are you using separate stick or Apple TV to watch Dolby content, or using the built in apps?


----------



## Jimmy22

Sadly I have to say that calibrating the projector is impossible. The problem are the luminance values of the colors. Almost all primary and secondary colors have very low values up to minus - 50%, which is very bad.

Even before measuring I knew that something was off, the white inner circle of the Chrome browser logo for example looked to bright in comparison with the surroundings colors.

If you turn on or off the "Color Space" setting doesn't matter, the luminance values cannot be dialed in. Even each color maxed out at 100% brightness doesn't help.

The colors are always too dark in reference to white. I don't understand why this was nowhere mentioned, because that's a complete dealbreaker. The picture just looks totally off color wise. Saturation and hue values are no problem though, but here we are facing linearity issues, like 25% red saturation for example can be spot on, but 100% off etc.

I turned off all settings like local contrast and adaptive luma control etc. to make sure there is no gamma manipulation etc. going on. I have to investigate more, but at the moment I can't see a solution to get everything right using the onboard controls.

I have to create a 3D Lut with the free DisplayCal software for PC first and if the errors can be fixed I would buy a 4K compatible 3D Lut holder from Blackmagic Design.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> Sadly I have to say that calibrating the projector is impossible. The problem are the luminance values of the colors. Almost all primary and secondary colors have very low values up to minus - 50%, which is very bad.
> 
> Even before measuring I knew that something was off, the white inner circle of the Chrome browser logo for example looked to bright in comparison with the surroundings colors.
> 
> If you turn on or off the "Color Space" setting doesn't matter, the luminance values cannot be dialed in. Even each color maxed out at 100% brightness doesn't help.
> 
> The colors are always too dark in reference to white. I don't understand why this was nowhere mentioned, because that's a complete dealbreaker. The picture just looks totally off color wise. Saturation and hue values are no problem though, but here we are facing linearity issues, like 25% red saturation for example can be spot on, but 100% off etc.
> 
> I turned off all settings like local contrast and adaptive luma control etc. to make sure there is no gamma manipulation etc. going on. I have to investigate more, but at the moment I can't see a solution to get everything right using the onboard controls.
> 
> I have to create a 3D Lut with the free DisplayCal software for PC first and if the errors can be fixed I would buy a 4K compatible 3D Lut holder from Blackmagic Design.


I don’t understand the obsession with calibration. But everyone is different so your buying criteria and standards on what’s acceptable in a projector is certainly your prerogative. The same for DV and trying to make a poorly designed implementation work acceptably on the Formovie GT1, let alone every other type of display.

Personally, I‘ve turned off HDR and DV with my Nvidia Shield Pro streamer and stick with the stone cold beautiful SDR picture. For non 4K content (cable/Blu-ray disc,) I have my Denon x6700H AVR upscale and sharpen the content. It’s not over saturated or over blown, color wise, and is plenty bright for me. Sharp as a tack. But I guess I’m simple in that I don’t try to force a round peg into a square hole. I accept the Formovie Global Theater projector as is and concentrate on enjoying what I watch in my humble home theater.


----------



## Jimmy22

It's not an obsession. If you are used to look at calibrated displays, you will just notice the errors. The color accuracy of the Formovie Theater is pretty far off, I am talking of Delta E errors above 10. Everything above Delta Error 3 can be noticable by the human eye, at least to someone who has experience and knows how colors should look.


----------



## H2K1

Jimmy22 said:


> I received my unit and did a first test of the On/Off contrast.
> For the test I created a black test pattern with 4 small white 10x10 pixel blocks in the corners, to be sure that there is no dimming going on. It looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 3382774
> 
> 
> The measured values I got was 0.042 cd/m² black luminance and 121 cd/m² white luminance = contrast of around 2880:1. I measured it with my i1 Display Colorimeter, as my spectrometer is not sufficient at reading these kind of black values (I believe 0.1 cd/m² is the darkest my spectro can read).
> In conclusion I can state, that the contrast of almost 3000:1 is real. BTW it was in the "User" Color temp setting, which has a Greyscale of around 7000 to 8000 Kelvin. After perfect calibration to 6500 Kelvin the contrast value may drop a little bit further, but not much I guess.
> I connected a PC via HDMI with the projector.
> 
> What I find weird is that the contrast was much worse with the inbuilt Youtube App.
> I first measured a black and a white test pattern from Youtube and only got around 1000:1.
> Thankfully with my PC and correctly matched HDMI levels it was much better.
> 
> In conclusion the contrast performance is good for a DLP projector.
> All testing was done on a white wall, because I have not assembled the Epson CLR screen yet. With the screen, the On/Off contrast will be the same, but the Ansi or intrascene contrast should be much better. I am very curious how the picture will look on the screen instead of the wall.
> 
> The focus uniformity is also okay with my unit, but the sharpness overall is not on par with good front projectors. It looks a little bit softer overall and I can't see individual pixels like I have seen with other 4K shift DLP units before. But to be fair I expected this before I bought it and I think that most UST projectors suffer from this.
> 
> Oh, and the fan noise is really low, it is low pitched and unobstrusive.
> I thought it would be louder, but that's another Plus for the projector.
> 
> The "Color Space" setting must be turned to On instead of Automatic, otherwise the colors are way too oversaturated with a PC, which sends out BT709. But even with the setting to On, I can see that I have to calibrate the unit, because especially the reds tend to look a bit muted and appear a bit orange or brown in tone.
> 
> 
> @ *Vladimirovich*
> 
> I hope that the measurement helped a bit.
> I also want to measure the Ansi contrast, but I have to find a way to measure it with my i1 Display colorimeter. It has a wider lens than my spectrometer though, which makes it more tricky. But that's for later when I have more time.


Hello,
Thank you for your feedback. I'm using right now my Formovie on a white wall and it doesn't project deep blacks. I thought it was because of my projection area. 
Can you tell me more about your room configuration (colors of your wall, ceiling etc)?


----------



## ice2hot

Jimmy22 said:


> It's not an obsession. If you are used to look at calibrated displays, you will just notice the errors. The color accuracy of the Formovie Theater is pretty far off, I am talking of Delta E errors above 10. Everything above Delta Error 3 can be noticable by the human eye, at least to someone who has experience and knows how colors should look.


Hi @Jimmy22 . Quick question so rwhat is your take on the review and the calibration settings on Projectcentral.
Also what in your opinion would be the best settings to bring the delta error as close to no 3 for HDR SDR and DV. Would you mind sharing them?


----------



## Jimmy22

H2K1 said:


> Hello,
> Thank you for your feedback. I'm using right now my Formovie on a white wall and it doesn't project deep blacks. I thought it was because of my projection area.
> Can you tell me more about your room configuration (colors of your wall, ceiling etc)?


My room is all white. But if you display a black test pattern like I did for measurement, it will look the same in any room. You only have to make sure, that the room is dark without any light sources (no daylight or artificial light sources hitting the screen area).

The black levels in a mixed scene is different, this is dictated by the room reflections, because any bright objects in the picture will reflect from the screen to the walls / ceiling and bounce back to the screen again and wash out the contrast.

Which screen do you have? Hopefully a CLR screen for UST projectors, because this is by far the best way to maintain contrast and black levels. Also as I mentioned before, make sure to use an external player instead of the internal apps / player of the projector. The black levels via the inbuilt Youtube app were worse in a strange way compared to my PC.
And if you have an external device make sure, that the HDMI range is matched (16-235 or 0-255).


----------



## Jimmy22

ice2hot said:


> Hi @Jimmy22 . Quick question so rwhat is your take on the review and the calibration settings on Projectcentral.
> Also what in your opinion would be the best settings to bring the delta error as close to no 3 for HDR SDR and DV. Would you mind sharing them?


Plaease give me some time, as soon as I have more time I will read the review again and give you my feedback. Sharing settings does not make much sense, because each projector is a little bit different.

But you are best off at the moment to put the "Color Space" setting to on, as it will try to match the source and content in the best way possible. Without a spectrophotometer you can't do much, and even then the luminance errors are not correctable. Without a 3D LUT, which is external software / hardware based, the projector can't show its full potential as far as I can say for now.

When I have a bit more time, I can share my settings, but these will only be some sort of baseline for the 3D LUT profile and also may not be a good match to your specific unit.


----------



## Joered101

Jimmy22 said:


> I received my unit and did a first test of the On/Off contrast.
> For the test I created a black test pattern with 4 small white 10x10 pixel blocks in the corners, to be sure that there is no dimming going on. It looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 3382774
> 
> 
> The measured values I got was 0.042 cd/m² black luminance and 121 cd/m² white luminance = contrast of around 2880:1. I measured it with my i1 Display Colorimeter, as my spectrometer is not sufficient at reading these kind of black values (I believe 0.1 cd/m² is the darkest my spectro can read).
> In conclusion I can state, that the contrast of almost 3000:1 is real. BTW it was in the "User" Color temp setting, which has a Greyscale of around 7000 to 8000 Kelvin. After perfect calibration to 6500 Kelvin the contrast value may drop a little bit further, but not much I guess.
> I connected a PC via HDMI with the projector.
> 
> What I find weird is that the contrast was much worse with the inbuilt Youtube App.
> I first measured a black and a white test pattern from Youtube and only got around 1000:1.
> Thankfully with my PC and correctly matched HDMI levels it was much better.
> 
> In conclusion the contrast performance is good for a DLP projector.
> All testing was done on a white wall, because I have not assembled the Epson CLR screen yet. With the screen, the On/Off contrast will be the same, but the Ansi or intrascene contrast should be much better. I am very curious how the picture will look on the screen instead of the wall.
> 
> The focus uniformity is also okay with my unit, but the sharpness overall is not on par with good front projectors. It looks a little bit softer overall and I can't see individual pixels like I have seen with other 4K shift DLP units before. But to be fair I expected this before I bought it and I think that most UST projectors suffer from this.
> 
> Oh, and the fan noise is really low, it is low pitched and unobstrusive.
> I thought it would be louder, but that's another Plus for the projector.
> 
> The "Color Space" setting must be turned to On instead of Automatic, otherwise the colors are way too oversaturated with a PC, which sends out BT709. But even with the setting to On, I can see that I have to calibrate the unit, because especially the reds tend to look a bit muted and appear a bit orange or brown in tone.
> 
> 
> @ *Vladimirovich*
> 
> I hope that the measurement helped a bit.
> I also want to measure the Ansi contrast, but I have to find a way to measure it with my i1 Display colorimeter. It has a wider lens than my spectrometer though, which makes it more tricky. But that's for later when I have more time.


Same set up as i'm using, white wall with pc, curious to see how much of a difference you find with CLR screen? as tempted to get to free up wall!


----------



## Joered101

Jimmy22 said:


> Sadly I have to say that calibrating the projector is impossible. The problem are the luminance values of the colors. Almost all primary and secondary colors have very low values up to minus - 50%, which is very bad.
> 
> Even before measuring I knew that something was off, the white inner circle of the Chrome browser logo for example looked to bright in comparison with the surroundings colors.
> 
> If you turn on or off the "Color Space" setting doesn't matter, the luminance values cannot be dialed in. Even each color maxed out at 100% brightness doesn't help.
> 
> The colors are always too dark in reference to white. I don't understand why this was nowhere mentioned, because that's a complete dealbreaker. The picture just looks totally off color wise. Saturation and hue values are no problem though, but here we are facing linearity issues, like 25% red saturation for example can be spot on, but 100% off etc.
> 
> I turned off all settings like local contrast and adaptive luma control etc. to make sure there is no gamma manipulation etc. going on. I have to investigate more, but at the moment I can't see a solution to get everything right using the onboard controls.
> 
> I have to create a 3D Lut with the free DisplayCal software for PC first and if the errors can be fixed I would buy a 4K compatible 3D Lut holder from Blackmagic Design.


This is EXACTLY the same issue i faced when trying to calibrate, and always notice it looking off especially in the blues and cyans of sky shots, which is a very common colour unfortunately... just looks weirdly dark. I also have pumped brightness to 100% with no success. Compared to my old TW7400 with 3LCD chip, color luminance was perfect. Hard to get over I must say, and am also surprised you are the first to mention it to. Thought it was something I was doign wrong with calibration, or with my calibrator, but i also found the image to always look just slightly off.

btw what is a 3D lut holder and how would that help us get full color luminance?


----------



## Jimmy22

Joered101 said:


> This is EXACTLY the same issue i faced when trying to calibrate, and always notice it looking off especially in the blues and cyans of sky shots, which is a very common colour unfortunately... just looks weirdly dark. I also have pumped brightness to 100% with no success. Compared to my old TW7400 with 3LCD chip, color luminance was perfect. Hard to get over I must say, and am also surprised you are the first to mention it to. Thought it was something I was doign wrong with calibration, or with my calibrator, but i also found the image to always look just slightly off.
> 
> btw what is a 3D lut holder and how would that help us get full color luminance?


One of the main reasons I bought the unit was, that it has a color management. But what does it help if the colors cannot be dialed in? At least there might be luck with a 3D LUT. But you have to spend around 200 dollars for a Blackmagic Design 4K LUT holder (or if you have a PC and use it as a player then the Lut holder is not neccessary) and at minimum an i1 Pro spectrophotometer for maybe another 200 dollars used and an i1 Display pro colorimeter for about 100 dollars used. So expect at least 300- 500 dollars to get accurate colors. 

I will now try to create a small 3D LUT with DisplayCal and verify if the color luminance errors can be dialed in. Let's hope for the best.


----------



## Joered101

Jimmy22 said:


> One of the main reasons I bought the unit was, that it has a color management. But what does it help if the colors cannot be dialed in? At least there might be luck with a 3D LUT. But you have to spend around 200 dollars for a Blackmagic Design 4K LUT holder (or if you have a PC and use it as a player then the Lut holder is not neccessary) and at minimum an i1 Pro spectrophotometer for maybe another 200 dollars used and an i1 Display pro colorimeter for about 100 dollars used. So expect at least 300- 500 dollars to get accurate colors.
> 
> I will now try to create a small 3D LUT with DisplayCal and verify if the color luminance errors can be dialed in. Let's hope for the best.


again precisely why i waited for it over the fengmi T1. Okay keep us posted re the 3D LUT, still don't fully understand that but hoping lol. Just checked this website out after looking into color brightness some more: Projector Search Results | Projector ratings

Interesting as never thought about color luminance being such an importance but now i realise why Epson always pride themselves on their 3LCD.... not gona lie why I am tempted by the epson ls800, only thing keeping me formovie is the black levels.

one more thing which is interesting, shows how bad the color luminance is, i can neevr NEVER get this scene looking remotely okay in the sky, in comparison to eevry other device i've tested it against and remembering how it looked better than every device on my previous epson. Check yourself you'll see what I mean, and how innacurate the cyan is out the box, check against any other screen. However interestingly, if I force HDR in my firestick it stays in dolby vision mode, and I have found the luminance to be better in that mode and this scene looks far closer to good, not perfect. So wondering if it is a software issue not hardware and it is able to produce the color accurately, but we are restricted by settings limitations. MAYBE? all i know is it look whack without any color tuning and still far from perfect with every kind of tuning. 

skip to 1:11


----------



## kraine

Jimmy22 said:


> Sadly I have to say that calibrating the projector is impossible. The problem are the luminance values of the colors. Almost all primary and secondary colors have very low values up to minus - 50%, which is very bad.


I'm sorry, but it is possible to calibrate the Formovie Theater and the integrated settings (calibration menus) allow to obtain very good results.


----------



## Joered101

kraine said:


> I'm sorry, but it is possible to calibrate the Formovie Theater and the integrated settings (calibration menus) allow to obtain very good results.
> 
> View attachment 3383130
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3383131


But referring to color luminance you are also struggling to meet reference with those %? I might be wrong but that's what it looks like. Curios also Kraine how does the reference video I sent look to you, of Dunkirk The Mole? At 1:11? the cyan sky specifically I mean.

Thanks!


----------



## H2K1

Jimmy22 said:


> My room is all white. But if you display a black test pattern like I did for measurement, it will look the same in any room. You only have to make sure, that the room is dark without any light sources (no daylight or artificial light sources hitting the screen area).
> 
> The black levels in a mixed scene is different, this is dictated by the room reflections, because any bright objects in the picture will reflect from the screen to the walls / ceiling and bounce back to the screen again and wash out the contrast.
> 
> Which screen do you have? Hopefully a CLR screen for UST projectors, because this is by far the best way to maintain contrast and black levels. Also as I mentioned before, make sure to use an external player instead of the internal apps / player of the projector. The black levels via the inbuilt Youtube app were worse in a strange way compared to my PC.
> And if you have an external device make sure, that the HDMI range is matched (16-235 or 0-255).


Ok I thank you for all your explanations.
I am currently projecting on a white wall.
I have a CLR screen in a bedroom, this room being used as a guest room, it is not currently available for my tests.
I have not yet projected a black image on this screen to see what it looks like but on mixed scenes I have quite a few reflections coming from the walls and ceiling. I'm thinking of fixing this by installing black curtains.


----------



## Djmeltdown65

Just got my unit and I may be in a bit of a pickle. Any help from y'all would be appreciated. 

I had already purchased a 135" Silverticket AT screen _before _I decided to ditch the VAVA Chroma and go with the Formovie. 135" ST AT Screen (for screen dimension info)

The dimensions for the projector screen wall are as follows: 124.75" W x 94.5" H and it looks like the screen size dictates I need a little over 18" from bottom of projector to bottom of screen. That only leaves me a little under 4" of room. Is my math right?

I had originally intended on mounting this projector on the ceiling (I know most don't do this but my room and situation sort of dictate this for aesthetic and safety reasons and I have a very young kiddo that will _eventually_ use the media room too). 

Did I screw myself? Will this screen/projector combo only work with the projector sitting on the floor? Will it work at all? Do I need to try to exchange the 132" screen for a 120"? 120" ST AT Screen (for alternative screen dimension info)

Can y'all message me with your mounting solutions? Any of you successfully ceiling mount this pj and have pictures? Anyone build a simple MDF cabinet to make it safer/more visually appealing sitting on the floor? 

There's over 148 pages in this thread and I get lost and overwhelmed. Thanks again!


----------



## static14

Just setup my Formovie Theater in the basement last Saturday and the remote has been really flakey. I've had to hookup a usb keyboard to force my way into the bluetooth menu to repair the remote a number of times. Is this known issue or do I have a crummy remote?

Thanks in advance for and help you can offer.


----------



## Fox&304

static14 said:


> Just setup my Formovie Theater in the basement last Saturday and the remote has been really flakey. I've had to hookup a usb keyboard to force my way into the bluetooth menu to repair the remote a number of times. Is this known issue or do I have a crummy remote?
> 
> Thanks in advance for and help you can offer.


Yep, happened to me pretty frequently. I'd recommend installing the Google TV app to use as a remote in case the remote stops working again.


----------



## Joered101

Seriously what am I doing wrong. In hdr mode and in standard srgb mode on windows, THIS is my gamut coverage?


----------



## maggieguy

mjana said:


> Glad you liked the pj… I am unsuccessful in watching DV content till now.. the built in apps always get stuck on DV video or lose audio in the middle. Just wondering are you using separate stick or Apple TV to watch Dolby content, or using the built in apps?


I have all of the projector's "smart TV" capabilities turned off and bypassed. Using an Apple TV 4K to serve up streaming content.


----------



## RickMes

Joered101 said:


> Seriously what am I doing wrong. In hdr mode and in standard srgb mode on windows, THIS is my gamut coverage?


I am no professional, but I can see you a projecting into a wall. A sandy one, very far from perfectly flat. What color is it? What about it's reflective properties? All that is should be interfering with your projection.
Before I bought my CLR screen, I was using my egg-white wall, also sandy, and though I could see this was an excellent UST, the image was no comparison to what it is now with the dedicated screen.

You probably should not calibrate before you have a chance to get a screen, or at least pay no attention to those values... for now.

Happy New Year!


----------



## Joered101

RickMes said:


> You are projecting into a wall...


That wouldn’t effect the saturation of the colours not reaching their full?


----------



## RickMes

Joered101 said:


> That wouldn’t effect the saturation of the colours not reaching their full?


Depends on the paint color and properties. Also, the sand imperfections cast small shadows due to the UST projection angle. I suppose that affects everything...


----------



## Joered101

RickMes said:


> Depends on the paint color and properties. Also, the sand imperfections cast small shadows due to the UST projection angle. I suppose that affects everything...


Yeah those defects are definitely there for sure. But I do also think there’s something going on internally that I haven’t figured out. Even I’m native gamut I don’t surpass srgb, that seems weird and more then just wall


----------



## ice2hot

kraine said:


> I'm sorry, but it is possible to calibrate the Formovie Theater and the integrated settings (calibration menus) allow to obtain very good results.
> 
> View attachment 3383130
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3383131


@kraine can you share the environment and whether if it is with an air screens and what gain
Do you think you can share the hdr sdr and dv settings along with 11 point correction.


----------



## Jimmy22

kraine said:


> I'm sorry, but it is possible to calibrate the Formovie Theater and the integrated settings (calibration menus) allow to obtain very good results.
> 
> View attachment 3383130
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3383131


I am trying to calibrate the projector to the BT709 Standard and this is very difficult, I would say impossible to get good results. The main problem is, that if you turn down the saturation of the colors, the luminance also drops. Then you can counter that with rising the color luminance values, but that brings other problems like for example the luminance for 1 color @ 100% stimulus can be on point, but @ 50% totally off.

I think the reason behind this are the RGB lasers. Because they act different than a UHP lamp for example. A lamp has all spectral wavelengths in one source and RGB laser are separate. If you change the values for red, the projector only alters the red lasers and that brings an imbalance in luminance compared to the green and blue lasers. I owned many projectors in my life, I think about 20 and these were all good machines from JVC, Sony, Benq, Marantz, Optoma etc. (all with RGB panels or RGBRGB color wheels) and the colors of the Formovie can't match them with BT709. An average person who has not much experience with color calibration and projectors in general may never notice it, but I sadly do.

I can post an almost perfect color chart like yours, but the picture and the colors will look weird anyway. Out of the box you can forget about watching BT709 content. If you play videogames on consoles, watch Netflix or use a PC, the majority of the content will be in BT709. The only thing you can do as a user without equipment is to turn on the "Color Space" setting to get close to BT709, but it looks way worse than with a good projector with accurate colors. And even if you have a spectrometer, it is much work to get acceptable results, let alone very good results.

As I have to do some renovations at my home first, I put the projector back in its box and will try later to achieve better results. But I don't think I will keep it for a long time, because I know how good colors can look and also the overall look and sharpness of the projector is very different than with a JVC projector for example. Not long ago I owned a Optoma UHD40, which is a 700 dollar cheap 4K shift DLP projector and in terms of colors and sharpness it was much better than the Formovie. But the contrast was worse on the Optoma, the reason why I also sold it at the end.

Something is just missing for me personally with the Formovie. It's not a bad projector to be clear, but I just have seen better.


----------



## galego100

So what you are saying ,i f i buy JVC D-ILA X700RBE from 2013 , second hand unit, it will perform better than the Formovie Theater in several aspects?


----------



## Patrick G

I think I’d rather take projectorcentral’s word for it.


----------



## galego100

Jimmy22 said:


> I am trying to calibrate the projector to the BT709 Standard and this is very difficult, I would say impossible to get good results. The main problem is, that if you turn down the saturation of the colors, the luminance also drops. Then you can counter that with rising the color luminance values, but that brings other problems like for example the luminance for 1 color @ 100% stimulus can be on point, but @ 50% totally off.
> 
> I think the reason behind this are the RGB lasers. Because they act different than a UHP lamp for example. A lamp has all spectral wavelengths in one source and RGB laser are separate. If you change the values for red, the projector only alters the red lasers and that brings an imbalance in luminance compared to the green and blue lasers. I owned many projectors in my life, I think about 20 and these were all good machines from JVC, Sony, Benq, Marantz, Optoma etc. (all with RGB panels or RGBRGB color wheels) and the colors of the Formovie can't match them with BT709. An average person who has not much experience with color calibration and projectors in general may never notice it, but I sadly do.
> 
> I can post an almost perfect color chart like yours, but the picture and the colors will look weird anyway. Out of the box you can forget about watching BT709 content. If you play videogames on consoles, watch Netflix or use a PC, the majority of the content will be in BT709. The only thing you can do as a user without equipment is to turn on the "Color Space" setting to get close to BT709, but it looks way worse than with a good projector with accurate colors. And even if you have a spectrometer, it is much work to get acceptable results, let alone very good results.
> 
> As I have to do some renovations at my home first, I put the projector back in its box and will try later to achieve better results. But I don't think I will keep it for a long time, because I know how good colors can look and also the overall look and sharpness of the projector is very different than with a JVC projector for example. Not long ago I owned a Optoma UHD40, which is a 700 dollar cheap 4K shift DLP projector and in terms of colors and sharpness it was much better than the Formovie. But the contrast was worse on the Optoma, the reason why I also sold it at the end.
> 
> Something is just missing for me personally with the Formovie. It's not a bad projector to be clear, but I just have seen better.


When we read this, it sounds like a huge disappointment, and all the pages of this thread, fall over... Maybe you are doing something wrong and you didn´t notice...


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> Something is just missing for me personally with the Formovie. It's not a bad projector to be clear, but I just have seen better.


Then time to move on to a different projector where you can calibrate the crap out of it to satisfy your demands.


----------



## Jimmy22

Ricoflashback said:


> Then time to move on to a different projector where you can calibrate the crap out of it to satisfy your demands.


I don't understand why your responses always have this sarcastic undertone. Is any critisism not allowed?
Please take a look at this review, I do trust:









Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com


New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...




hometheaterhifi.com





Look how bad the colors are out of the box. Even after calibration the errors remained quiet high. I'm not making false claims here...

Ok, I get if you don't care, but if nobody writes about the cons of the projector, then what's the point about an online forum where discussing everything should be allowed and also normally should be welcomed?
I also mentioned some positive things about the projector, it's not all bad, but I was just hoping for more.

@ galego100

I personally like the picture of the JVC's more. Every projector has its pros and cons.
I owned a successor, the DLA-X5900 and I did miss the 4K resolution, otherwise the projector was almost perfect for me. The Formovie Theater has 4K shift, but for me it fails to deliver the crisp sharpness of the optics, which I found on the Optoma UHD40 for example. If you want all in one package, I think a newer JVC like the 4K N-series is the way to go, but these cost at least double of the Formovie.


----------



## Jimmy22

Patrick G said:


> I think I’d rather take projectorcentral’s word for it.


This is from the review of projectorcentral:

Starting with SDR, pre-calibration measurements had very large dE (DeltaE) errors. (_DeltaE is the metric used to determine the visible error. It has been determined that anything over a dE of 3 is visible, anything over 2.3 is a just noticeable difference for trained eyes and anything below 2.3 should ideally not be seen to the eye._) Grayscale pre-calibration measurements of User mode had dE errors all over 3 which was visible to the eye. Color gamut color points for the Rec. 709 color space exhibited *very high dE errors in double digits which were due to inaccurate hue, oversaturation, and a lack of luminance in color.* I ran a large pre-calibration color checker and the results showed an average of over 3dE across all colors with a max of* 18.9dE*. (_The Calman ColorChecker measures accuracy on a wide range of color swatches corresponding to skin tones, blue sky, etc._)

The reviewer also points out the problems and the lack of luminance in colors (which I mentioned before). A person who watches content with the unit and does not calibrate it well, can't just state that the picture is good. If this happens, then I have to say that this person has no clue and I don't mean this pejorative. An experienced person will by no means be happy with the colors, especially out of the box.


----------



## Patrick G

Jimmy22 said:


> This is from the review of projectorcentral:
> 
> Starting with SDR, pre-calibration measurements had very large dE (DeltaE) errors. (_DeltaE is the metric used to determine the visible error. It has been determined that anything over a dE of 3 is visible, anything over 2.3 is a just noticeable difference for trained eyes and anything below 2.3 should ideally not be seen to the eye._) Grayscale pre-calibration measurements of User mode had dE errors all over 3 which was visible to the eye. Color gamut color points for the Rec. 709 color space exhibited *very high dE errors in double digits which were due to inaccurate hue, oversaturation, and a lack of luminance in color.* I ran a large pre-calibration color checker and the results showed an average of over 3dE across all colors with a max of* 18.9dE*. (_The Calman ColorChecker measures accuracy on a wide range of color swatches corresponding to skin tones, blue sky, etc._)
> 
> The reviewer also points out the problems and the lack of luminance in colors (which I mentioned before). A person who watches content with the unit and does not calibrate it well, can't just state that the picture is good. If this happens, then I have to say that this person has no clue and I don't mean this pejorative. An experienced person will by no means be happy with the colors, especially out of the box.


If it’s that noticeable, can you offer an explanation as to why they would have rated it the #1 UST protector among all they tested? Given the top rating, seems like the issue would be least noticeable or impactful to the viewing experience when compared to issues exhibited by all other projectors they tested.


----------



## JackB

Patrick G said:


> If it’s that noticeable, can you offer an explanation as to why they would have rated it the #1 UST protector among all they tested? Given the top rating, seems like the issue would be least noticeable or impactful to the viewing experience when compared to issues exhibited by all other projectors they tested.


They were swept away by the contrast of the ALPD4.0 technology. The same reason videophiles swamp to JVC overlooking shortcomings.


----------



## mirzank

Jimmy22 said:


> Ok, I get if you don't care, but if nobody writes about the cons of the projector, then what's the point about an online forum where discussing everything should be allowed and also normally should be welcomed?
> I also mentioned some positive things about the projector, it's not all bad, but I was just hoping for more.


Ofcourse totally ok to write about the cons, but most of the people here participating in the forums are probably already owners and at this point in the lifecycle of the product we are here to try to optimise and improve what we get out of the pj.

It’s fine to hear this isn’t the projector for you or some others, but to keep going on and on about how it’s not great/the best without any input on how to improve it isn’t very useful for us that read the thread regularly. That’s why I’d think if someone has very high visual standards or realises this product isn’t for them, the best use of time is probably to go find the product that is right, instead of just talking aboutthe shortcomings of this one (unless you are trying to find a fix for it, or asking for input etc from those that already own it).


for someone like me who doesn’t even use a screen and just projects on the wall, this ~$3000 projector is really the best without jumping into the 5000$ bracket and even then I’m not sure I’d find anything better. The picture is amazing, I messed around with the cms and followed some guides here and got a picture I’m happy with. The only thing that I could wish for was a shorter throw like the Epson ls8000, but imagine I was on this forum constantly complaining about how the formovie throw needs to be shorter, well I’d probably also get told to go buy the Epson instead because this is an inherent feature of that pj and not of this one. I’d think if calibrated colours are so important to you you wouldn’t even be looking at a ust and probably should be aiming for the 5000$+ price point. 

even from the review you linked this is what they said: “The FORMOVIE THEATHER UST LASER PROJECTOR is priced competitively with its peers but delivers better contrast and a larger color gamut with excellent built-in audio. It’s a winner for sure.”. 

That’s what I mainly care about and to me the pj seems like a winner, will last me a few years till the next pj comes along with a shorter throw and similar colours.


----------



## Ricoflashback

mirzank said:


> Ofcourse totally ok to write about the cons, but most of the people here participating in the forums are probably already owners and at this point in the lifecycle of the product we are here to try to optimise and improve what we get out of the pj.
> 
> It’s fine to hear this isn’t the projector for you or some others, but to keep going on and on about how it’s not great/the best without any input on how to improve it isn’t very useful for us that read the thread regularly. That’s why I’d think if someone has very high visual standards or realises this product isn’t for them, the best use of time is probably to go find the product that is right, instead of just talking aboutthe shortcomings of this one (unless you are trying to find a fix for it, or asking for input etc from those that already own it).
> 
> 
> for someone like me who doesn’t even use a screen and just projects on the wall, this ~$3000 projector is really the best without jumping into the 5000$ bracket and even then I’m not sure I’d find anything better. The picture is amazing, I messed around with the cms and followed some guides here and got a picture I’m happy with. The only thing that I could wish for was a shorter throw like the Epson ls8000, but imagine I was on this forum constantly complaining about how the formovie throw needs to be shorter, well I’d probably also get told to go buy the Epson instead because this is an inherent feature of that pj and not of this one. I’d think if calibrated colours are so important to you you wouldn’t even be looking at a ust and probably should be aiming for the 5000$+ price point.
> 
> even from the review you linked this is what they said: “The FORMOVIE THEATHER UST LASER PROJECTOR is priced competitively with its peers but delivers better contrast and a larger color gamut with excellent built-in audio. It’s a winner for sure.”.
> 
> That’s what I mainly care about and to me the pj seems like a winner, will last me a few years till the next pj comes along with a shorter throw and similar colours.


Well said. The intent of the OP is to denigrate and criticize the Global Formovie Theater Projector, period. He’s better off moving on to another thread and bitching about the inadequacies of whatever projector he chooses next. Perhaps ruminating on the lack of bang for buck of Christie offerings and providing his calibration results that are at odds with who knows who.

I get pissed off at these type of “no value” posters who are more interested in writing subjective, negative diatribes for whatever reason I’ll never know. It certainly doesn’t help anyone who owns or potentially wants to buy the GT1. It doesn’t help anyone who owns the projector and is trying to squeeze the very best performance out of this unit. If this projector isn’t for you - then fine. Move on a find & post about a projector you like. Don’t crap on other folks who have bought this projector and enjoy it immensely.


----------



## Joered101

Ricoflashback said:


> Well said. The intent of the OP is to denigrate and criticize the Global Formovie Theater Projector, period. He’s better off moving on to another thread and bitching about the inadequacies of whatever projector he chooses next. Perhaps ruminating on the lack of bang for buck of Christie offerings and providing his calibration results that are at odds with who knows who.
> 
> I get pissed off at these type of “no value” posters who are more interested in writing subjective, negative diatribes for whatever reason I’ll never know. It certainly doesn’t help anyone who owns or potentially wants to buy the GT1. It doesn’t help anyone who owns the projector and is trying to squeeze the very best performance out of this unit. If this projector isn’t for you - then fine. Move on a find & post about a projector you like. Don’t crap on other folks who have bought this projector and enjoy it immensely.


But if we've bought the projector already and are unable to get color results, we are within our right to be unsatisfied and post to a forum specifically about the projector. I think you're being defensive over a projectior you own and don't want to hear any cons, In my opinion. But It's not subjective, the colorimeter is objective, and the colour luminosity is off.

It's not personal, people come here and post their results of what they've got with the projector. Some are bad... I do think your approach to the threads and people's remarks are somewhat harsh and rude, no need for that.


----------



## Joered101

Jimmy22 said:


> I am trying to calibrate the projector to the BT709 Standard and this is very difficult, I would say impossible to get good results. The main problem is, that if you turn down the saturation of the colors, the luminance also drops. Then you can counter that with rising the color luminance values, but that brings other problems like for example the luminance for 1 color @ 100% stimulus can be on point, but @ 50% totally off.
> 
> I think the reason behind this are the RGB lasers. Because they act different than a UHP lamp for example. A lamp has all spectral wavelengths in one source and RGB laser are separate. If you change the values for red, the projector only alters the red lasers and that brings an imbalance in luminance compared to the green and blue lasers. I owned many projectors in my life, I think about 20 and these were all good machines from JVC, Sony, Benq, Marantz, Optoma etc. (all with RGB panels or RGBRGB color wheels) and the colors of the Formovie can't match them with BT709. An average person who has not much experience with color calibration and projectors in general may never notice it, but I sadly do.
> 
> I can post an almost perfect color chart like yours, but the picture and the colors will look weird anyway. Out of the box you can forget about watching BT709 content. If you play videogames on consoles, watch Netflix or use a PC, the majority of the content will be in BT709. The only thing you can do as a user without equipment is to turn on the "Color Space" setting to get close to BT709, but it looks way worse than with a good projector with accurate colors. And even if you have a spectrometer, it is much work to get acceptable results, let alone very good results.
> 
> As I have to do some renovations at my home first, I put the projector back in its box and will try later to achieve better results. But I don't think I will keep it for a long time, because I know how good colors can look and also the overall look and sharpness of the projector is very different than with a JVC projector for example. Not long ago I owned a Optoma UHD40, which is a 700 dollar cheap 4K shift DLP projector and in terms of colors and sharpness it was much better than the Formovie. But the contrast was worse on the Optoma, the reason why I also sold it at the end.
> 
> Something is just missing for me personally with the Formovie. It's not a bad projector to be clear, but I just have seen better.


Did you have a go at making a 3d LUT to help the color luminance values? And any luck?


----------



## Jimmy22

Joered101 said:


> Did you have a go at making a 3d LUT to help the color luminance values? And any luck?


I tried 3 times to create a 3D LUT with DisplayCal, but everytime the result was weird.
All colors looked acceptable, but cyan was very undersaturated (100% saturation was like 75% saturation). The luminance values got a little bit better (-25% at max instead of -50%).

I have to spend more time with it to find out what was going wrong.
But I found a very useful tool which can apply a 3D LUT to your complete PC Desktop instead of just applying the LUT via madvr in a media player.









GitHub - ledoge/dwm_lut: Apply 3D LUTs to the Windows desktop for system-wide color correction/calibration


Apply 3D LUTs to the Windows desktop for system-wide color correction/calibration - GitHub - ledoge/dwm_lut: Apply 3D LUTs to the Windows desktop for system-wide color correction/calibration




github.com





After applying the 3D LUT to your PC, you can use any game or video player instead of being dependent on madvr / media player classic, because the colors are adjusted in every application you use on PC, just don't use games or videos in exclusive Fullscreen (use borderless Window for everything). For me personally that was a nice find, because the tool is relatively new (2021) and before (AFAIK) it was not possible to use a 3D LUT with your whole PC system and have corrected colors in every application.

I am willing to keep the Formovie for a while (maybe a year or so) if the colors can be corrected at least to 90% where I want them to be. And for me personally it's also fun to learn more about 3D Lut's. So at the end I don't mind if I lose 1000 dollars after 1 year usage and playing around with it. At the end it's just a hobby for me.

I will post here again as soon as I got the time to play with DisplayCal more and got good results. I can also verify the results of the 3D LUT with HCFR or chromapure and post the results here later.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Joered101 said:


> But if we've bought the projector already and are unable to get color results, we are within our right to be unsatisfied and post to a forum specifically about the projector. I think you're being defensive over a projectior you own and don't want to hear any cons, In my opinion. But It's not subjective, the colorimeter is objective, and the colour luminosity is off.
> 
> It's not personal, people come here and post their results of what they've got with the projector. Some are bad... I do think your approach to the threads and people's remarks are somewhat harsh and rude, no need for that.


Sorry - I am suspect of the OP’s real intent and believe other calibrators way more than him. Once he said the projector was not fully capable of being calibrated, contrary to Kraine’s write-up, it was ”Check, please” as far as I’m concerned. Rude? What’s rude is passing yourself off as an expert calibrator, stating opinion contrary to the majority of other findings. Unfortunately, calibrations can be like opinions - everyone can have one. Especially with home calibrators who dabble with the various equipment out there today and who do not make a living doing calibrations. Objective? B.S. In theory, all calibrations should 100% the same if it’s the same equipment AND the same standards. It’s an infinite rat hole to me. If you have to have your display calibrated and if you are in the camp that must be 100% accurate, picture be damned (whether you like the end result or not,) good luck to you. 

For those of you who are unsatisfied with the projector - - by all means, complain if you wish. A better suggestion is to return the projector and find something that works for you. If Formovie doesn’t solve a key issue for you then, hopefully, you can return the projector and get a refund. I find the luminosity argument inherently bogus. But hey - that’s me. I find the colors, black levels and sharpness stone cold beautiful out of the box with some tweaks. I don’t need or want a calibration as I have always relied on my eyes to find more than acceptable picture quality.

Personally, I’d like to see a separate thread for calibration discussions like these that totally derail the thread for those who don’t want or don’t need/have the calibration requirement. But alas, more calibration confusion on the way. My opinion is this - for a UST in this price range, you won’t find a better buy. Don’t let the negative calibration talk deter you from considering this PJ if you’re looking at UST projectors.


----------



## earlspinkipad

mirzank said:


> Ofcourse totally ok to write about the cons, but most of the people here participating in the forums are probably already owners and at this point in the lifecycle of the product we are here to try to optimise and improve what we get out of the pj.
> 
> It’s fine to hear this isn’t the projector for you or some others, but to keep going on and on about how it’s not great/the best without any input on how to improve it isn’t very useful for us that read the thread regularly. That’s why I’d think if someone has very high visual standards or realises this product isn’t for them, the best use of time is probably to go find the product that is right, instead of just talking aboutthe shortcomings of this one (unless you are trying to find a fix for it, or asking for input etc from those that already own it).
> 
> 
> for someone like me who doesn’t even use a screen and just projects on the wall, this ~$3000 projector is really the best without jumping into the 5000$ bracket and even then I’m not sure I’d find anything better. The picture is amazing, I messed around with the cms and followed some guides here and got a picture I’m happy with. The only thing that I could wish for was a shorter throw like the Epson ls8000, but imagine I was on this forum constantly complaining about how the formovie throw needs to be shorter, well I’d probably also get told to go buy the Epson instead because this is an inherent feature of that pj and not of this one. I’d think if calibrated colours are so important to you you wouldn’t even be looking at a ust and probably should be aiming for the 5000$+ price point.
> 
> even from the review you linked this is what they said: “The FORMOVIE THEATHER UST LASER PROJECTOR is priced competitively with its peers but delivers better contrast and a larger color gamut with excellent built-in audio. It’s a winner for sure.”.
> 
> That’s what I mainly care about and to me the pj seems like a winner, will last me a few years till the next pj comes along with a shorter throw and similar colours.


sorry, but I have to side with jimmy22 on this one… I don’t have one of these, and regularly read this (and others) thread, to help steer me in the direction I want to go. Also, he didn’t go on and on… he said what he had to say, then defended his position when others questioned how/why he felt that way. From my perspective, he is being attacked for not feeling the same about this projector as many others do, and that some people just don’t want to here anything negative about it.
He clearly listed several positive aspects about it, and for people still looking for the right projector, the positives AND negatives are not only helpful, but actually WANTED


----------



## mirzank

earlspinkipad said:


> sorry, but I have to side with jimmy22 on this one… I don’t have one of these, and regularly read this (and others) thread, to help steer me in the direction I want to go. Also, he didn’t go on and on… he said what he had to say, then defended his position when others questioned how/why he felt that way. From my perspective, he is being attacked for not feeling the same about this projector as many others do, and that some people just don’t want to here anything negative about it.
> He clearly listed several positive aspects about it, and for people still looking for the right projector, the positives AND negatives are not only helpful, but actually WANTED


Don’t think I’m attacking anyone for having a negative opinion about the projector. I myself have complained about many issues with this projector. In the end I guess there are features that the mainstream users care about and features that the very serious tinkerers care about, and both are right. I personally don’t even know what luminance is, or how to calibrate, for me it’s just a set it and forget it pj. I don’t care if the contrast is measured 3000:1 or 1000:1, all I care about is that it looks better than the other pjs out there. Similarly to me like I said I project on a plain white wall and think the picture is amazing, so I’m really not the target audience for all this calibration talk.

if that’s what people want to discuss who am i to say what can or cannot be discussed. My point was just that some discussions are maybe so esoteric that the topic may not even apply to a 3000$ pj, more meant for professional level equipment, and thus maybe be a waste of ops time to discuss in relation to this pj. But if that discussion is useful to you guys then go for it, maybe I’ll learn something along the way too.

there are many very trusted forum members and reviewers e.g kraine, projector central team/Dave harper who have given their input on calibration and picture quality and those have been great discussions since those discussions have not been in a vacuum of just experience with this pj and claiming some feature sucks, but rather have compared to the dozens of pj’s they’ve reviewed and drawn conclusions accordingly.


----------



## luisalbertokid

mirzank said:


> Don’t think I’m attacking anyone for having a negative opinion about the projector. I myself have complained about many issues with this projector. In the end I guess there are features that the mainstream users care about and features that the very serious tinkerers care about, and both are right. I personally don’t even know what luminance is, or how to calibrate, for me it’s just a set it and forget it pj. I don’t care if the contrast is measured 3000:1 or 1000:1, all I care about is that it looks better than the other pjs out there. Similarly to me like I said I project on a plain white wall and think the picture is amazing, so I’m really not the target audience for all this calibration talk.
> 
> if that’s what people want to discuss who am i to say what can or cannot be discussed. My point was just that some discussions are maybe so esoteric that the topic may not even apply to a 3000$ pj, more meant for professional level equipment, and thus maybe be a waste of ops time to discuss in relation to this pj. But if that discussion is useful to you guys then go for it, maybe I’ll learn something along the way too.
> 
> there are many very trusted forum members and reviewers e.g kraine, projector central team/Dave harper who have given their input on calibration and picture quality and those have been great discussions since those discussions have not been in a vacuum of just experience with this pj and claiming some feature sucks, but rather have compared to the dozens of pj’s they’ve reviewed and drawn conclusions accordingly.


Anyway I would be very glad to know the dynamic and native contrast the experts on this thread have measured, that would be very relevant information now that we have new projectors coming up on CES like the BenQ 4550.


----------



## Ricoflashback

luisalbertokid said:


> Anyway I would be very glad to know the dynamic and native contrast the experts on this thread have measured, that would be very relevant information now that we have new projectors coming up on CES like the BenQ 4550.


Not exactly the right thread for info on the regular throw BenQ HT4550i. Here's a better link and ongoing AVS Forum discussion:









New Benq HT4550i, HT2060 projectors announced


Not much info yet from CES, but you can see pics of them at the benq site. https://www.androidpolice.com/benq-announces-new-projectors-gaming-cinema-ces-2023/ https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector/cinema/ht4550i/product-info.html




www.avsforum.com





P.S. - poster sage11x is quite the expert on all things BenQ.


----------



## luisalbertokid

Ricoflashback said:


> Not exactly the right thread for info on the regular throw BenQ HT4550i. Here's a better link and ongoing AVS Forum discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Benq HT4550i, HT2060 projectors announced
> 
> 
> Not much info yet from CES, but you can see pics of them at the benq site. https://www.androidpolice.com/benq-announces-new-projectors-gaming-cinema-ces-2023/ https://www.benq.com/en-us/projector/cinema/ht4550i/product-info.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. - poster sage11x is quite the expert on all things BenQ.


Actually my post was _"I would be very glad to know the dynamic and native contrast the experts on this thread have measured"_ (of the LG projector, of course), I only mentioned the BenQ as an example. So yes I believe this is the right thread... 🤓


----------



## Ricoflashback

luisalbertokid said:


> Actually my post was _"I would be very glad to know the dynamic and native contrast the experts on this thread have measured"_ (of the LG projector, of course), I only mentioned the BenQ as an example. So yes I believe this is the right thread... 🤓


Any comparison to a regular BenQ new release isn't apples to apples. And you're looking for info "of the LG projector???) From everything I've read on these threads and from projectorscreen.com - - uncalibrated contrast for the GT1 is 3000:1 and calibrated around 2500:1. I don't believe that dynamic contrast is applicable to the Formovie Theater as there is no "dimming" feature or capability that I know of.


----------



## earlspinkipad

“ if that’s what people want to discuss who am i to say what can or cannot be discussed. My point was just that some discussions are maybe so esoteric that the topic may not even apply to a 3000$ pj, more meant for professional level equipment, and thus maybe be a waste of ops time to discuss in relation to this pj. But if that discussion is useful to you guys then go for it, maybe I’ll learn something along the way too.

there are many very trusted forum members and reviewers e.g kraine, projector central team/Dave harper who have given their input on calibration and picture quality and those have been great discussions since those discussions have not been in a vacuum of just experience with this pj and claiming some feature sucks, but rather have compared to the dozens of pj’s they’ve reviewed and drawn conclusions accordingly.“


I’ve read those discussions, too, and found them enlightening, as well… however, I prefer to decide for myself what information is of relevance and importance to me… his, AND theirs


----------



## Ricoflashback

earlspinkipad said:


> I’ve read them those discussions… very carefully


And???


----------



## earlspinkipad

Ricoflashback said:


> And???


And the information jimmy presented is just as valid, and worthy of this forum as the rest


----------



## earlspinkipad

He is not the one who went “off topic”


----------



## manageablebits

I've noticed a problem with the Theater. I'm in dolby vision and I bring the settings up. I change a setting for example brightness from 50 to 49 and much more than brightness changes. Like it suddenly decides to apply everything else. The colours etc change and stay that way even if I put brightness back to 50. Which makes me wonder what on earth is going on? Was it ignoring the correct settings until I changed something?


----------



## mirzank

luisalbertokid said:


> Anyway I would be very glad to know the dynamic and native contrast the experts on this thread have measured, that would be very relevant information now that we have new projectors coming up on CES like the BenQ 4550.


I believe it’s about 2700:1 native in standard mode. Calibrated may be different.

Below is a very in-depth review that has the measurements on brightness and contrast that may help with the comparison. Additionally projectorcentral also has a review but I don’t have the link handy (I think they measured contrast about 3000:1):









Test Formovie Theater - Mondoprojos.fr


Test Formovie theater




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Fred3803

Hello, I cannot get the two top corners of my screen in focus with my formovie theater. There is always one corner out of focus. Is this something normal for this projector or do I have a bad unit ? Thank you for the help


----------



## g3m

manageablebits said:


> I've noticed a problem with the Theater. I'm in dolby vision and I bring the settings up. I change a setting for example brightness from 50 to 49 and much more than brightness changes. Like it suddenly decides to apply everything else. The colours etc change and stay that way even if I put brightness back to 50. Which makes me wonder what on earth is going on? Was it ignoring the correct settings until I changed something?


I have noticed something similar when sometime changing the brightness in Dolby Vision mode after switching between other picture modes where I also changed the brightness just before. I'm not entirely sure how to reproduce it. Restarting the projector fixed the issue when it happened. Probably a bug.


----------



## g3m

Fred3803 said:


> Hello, I cannot get the two top corners of my screen in focus with my formovie theater. There is always one corner out of focus. Is this something normal for this projector or do I have a bad unit ? Thank you for the help


This has been discussed multiple times in this thread if you search for "focus". Essentially corner focus is an issue that is worst on some units than others, but it usually gets better after the projector warms up. Personaly one of my corner is not as in-focus as the others, but it does not really affect viewing.


----------



## Kzoodad

I have a Google assistant in the same room as the projector. When I ask the Google assistant the projector wants to answer. I have tried to turn off the assistant in the projector settings but it keeps listening. With the assistant off it will ask if I want to enable Google assistant every time I ask the living room Google assistant. My other Google TV has a setting to turn off the microphone but I can not find the option with the projector. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## iitywygms

Kzoodad said:


> I have a Google assistant in the same room as the projector. When I ask the Google assistant the projector wants to answer. I have tried to turn off the assistant in the projector settings but it keeps listening. With the assistant off it will ask if I want to enable Google assistant every time I ask the living room Google assistant. My other Google TV has a setting to turn off the microphone but I can not find the option with the projector. Any help is appreciated.


There's a switch on the front right of the projector that turns off the microphone. Turn that off and you don't have to worry about it anymore.


----------



## iitywygms

I've been reading about all these questions and concerns about calibration settings of this projector. And when I first got the projector the first month or so I was fiddling with settings all the time and following guides and trying to get the perfect picture. But then a week ago I got tired of doing all that so I just played some movies that I'm familiar with and set everything up according to my eyes and I'm really happy. And with a projector, in my mind, it's a little bit different than with a tv. Because with a projector the screen you use matters a lot. I mean somebody who's projecting the image up on a wall versus somebody who's got a screen specifically made for projector will have totally different settings.
And our eyes are funny. Mine's in the living room and my walls are sort of an off-white with a bluish tint. And the floors a dark tan color. If I were to move this into a room that had perfectly white walls and a black floor the image would probably look a little bit different to my eyes.
I kind of think of the projector like I would a speaker. You can have a speaker with a perfectly flat response, but depending on the room you put it in the sound is going to change. It's just my opinion. And we all know what opinions are like.


----------



## Dave Harper

Jimmy22 said:


> Sadly I have to say that calibrating the projector is impossible. The problem are the luminance values of the colors. Almost all primary and secondary colors have very low values up to minus - 50%, which is very bad.
> 
> Even before measuring I knew that something was off, the white inner circle of the Chrome browser logo for example looked to bright in comparison with the surroundings colors.
> 
> If you turn on or off the "Color Space" setting doesn't matter, the luminance values cannot be dialed in. Even each color maxed out at 100% brightness doesn't help.
> 
> The colors are always too dark in reference to white. I don't understand why this was nowhere mentioned, because that's a complete dealbreaker. The picture just looks totally off color wise. Saturation and hue values are no problem though, but here we are facing linearity issues, like 25% red saturation for example can be spot on, but 100% off etc.
> 
> I turned off all settings like local contrast and adaptive luma control etc. to make sure there is no gamma manipulation etc. going on. I have to investigate more, but at the moment I can't see a solution to get everything right using the onboard controls.
> 
> I have to create a 3D Lut with the free DisplayCal software for PC first and if the errors can be fixed I would buy a 4K compatible 3D Lut holder from Blackmagic Design.





Joered101 said:


> This is EXACTLY the same issue i faced when trying to calibrate, and always notice it looking off especially in the blues and cyans of sky shots, which is a very common colour unfortunately... just looks weirdly dark. I also have pumped brightness to 100% with no success. Compared to my old TW7400 with 3LCD chip, color luminance was perfect. Hard to get over I must say, and am also surprised you are the first to mention it to. Thought it was something I was doign wrong with calibration, or with my calibrator, but i also found the image to always look just slightly off.
> 
> btw what is a 3D lut holder and how would that help us get full color luminance?





Jimmy22 said:


> I am trying to calibrate the projector to the BT709 Standard and this is very difficult, I would say impossible to get good results. The main problem is, that if you turn down the saturation of the colors, the luminance also drops. Then you can counter that with rising the color luminance values, but that brings other problems like for example the luminance for 1 color @ 100% stimulus can be on point, but @ 50% totally off.
> 
> *I think the reason behind this are the RGB lasers. Because they act different than a UHP lamp for example. A lamp has all spectral wavelengths in one source and RGB laser are separate. If you change the values for red, the projector only alters the red lasers and that brings an imbalance in luminance compared to the green and blue lasers. *I owned many projectors in my life, I think about 20 and these were all good machines from JVC, Sony, Benq, Marantz, Optoma etc. (all with RGB panels or RGBRGB color wheels) and the colors of the Formovie can't match them with BT709. An average person who has not much experience with color calibration and projectors in general may never notice it, but I sadly do.
> 
> I can post an almost perfect color chart like yours, but the picture and the colors will look weird anyway. Out of the box you can forget about watching BT709 content. If you play videogames on consoles, watch Netflix or use a PC, the majority of the content will be in BT709. The only thing you can do as a user without equipment is to turn on the "Color Space" setting to get close to BT709, but it looks way worse than with a good projector with accurate colors. And even if you have a spectrometer, it is much work to get acceptable results, let alone very good results.
> 
> As I have to do some renovations at my home first, I put the projector back in its box and will try later to achieve better results. But I don't think I will keep it for a long time, because I know how good colors can look and also the overall look and sharpness of the projector is very different than with a JVC projector for example. Not long ago I owned a Optoma UHD40, which is a 700 dollar cheap 4K shift DLP projector and in terms of colors and sharpness it was much better than the Formovie. But the contrast was worse on the Optoma, the reason why I also sold it at the end.
> 
> Something is just missing for me personally with the Formovie. It's not a bad projector to be clear, but I just have seen better.





Jimmy22 said:


> This is from the review of projectorcentral:
> 
> Starting with SDR, pre-calibration measurements had very large dE (DeltaE) errors. (_DeltaE is the metric used to determine the visible error. It has been determined that anything over a dE of 3 is visible, anything over 2.3 is a just noticeable difference for trained eyes and anything below 2.3 should ideally not be seen to the eye._) Grayscale pre-calibration measurements of User mode had dE errors all over 3 which was visible to the eye. Color gamut color points for the Rec. 709 color space exhibited *very high dE errors in double digits which were due to inaccurate hue, oversaturation, and a lack of luminance in color.* I ran a large pre-calibration color checker and the results showed an average of over 3dE across all colors with a max of* 18.9dE*. (_The Calman ColorChecker measures accuracy on a wide range of color swatches corresponding to skin tones, blue sky, etc._)
> 
> The reviewer also points out the problems and the lack of luminance in colors (which I mentioned before). A person who watches content with the unit and does not calibrate it well, can't just state that the picture is good. If this happens, then I have to say that this person has no clue and I don't mean this pejorative. An experienced person will by no means be happy with the colors, especially out of the box.





earlspinkipad said:


> sorry, but I have to side with jimmy22 on this one… I don’t have one of these, and regularly read this (and others) thread, to help steer me in the direction I want to go. Also, he didn’t go on and on… he said what he had to say, then defended his position when others questioned how/why he felt that way. From my perspective, he is being attacked for not feeling the same about this projector as many others do, and that some people just don’t want to here anything negative about it.
> He clearly listed several positive aspects about it, and for people still looking for the right projector, the positives AND negatives are not only helpful, but actually WANTED


@Jimmy22, @Joered101 gave the answer very early on, here in this post:



Joered101 said:


> again precisely why i waited for it over the fengmi T1. Okay keep us posted re the 3D LUT, still don't fully understand that but hoping lol. Just checked this website out after looking into color brightness some more: Projector Search Results | Projector ratings
> 
> Interesting as never thought about color luminance being such an importance but now i realise why Epson always pride themselves on their 3LCD.... not gona lie why I am tempted by the epson ls800, only thing keeping me formovie is the black levels……


Go to the link he posted. Single chip DLP inherently has low color luminance compared to three chip designs like 3DLP, LCD, LCoS, SXRD, etc. This is due to the sequential nature of single chip. For white all Three colors are on simultaneously so you get full luminance. For any colors they have to be flashed sequentially on the one single imaging chip so they’re not on screen all the time resulting in low color luminance, as low as 50%. 

This is however factored into the design and engineering of these units. One BIG design is using what’s called “Brilliant Color” by Texas Instruments, the maker of DLP chips. There’s also other engineering designed to alleviate this perceptibly such as boosting color saturation a little to subjectively make the colors be perceived as the same as those with full color Luminance like LCDs. They also do some color modulation type stuff as I recall. 

I was told this by DLP engineers from Vivitek (Delta?) and BenQ when I spoke to them about this very thing regarding my BenQ LK990 and using Brilliant Color. I went round and round with folks here like Javs but this is FACT and I followed their lead and guidance and it results in incredible images from the LK990 when their advice is heeded. 

I think you’re also onto something here, that I’ve alluded to with regard to RGB lasers and single chip DLPs in that unlike lamp based projectors using color wheels, the RGB lasers act as both the light source AND the color rendition source! You’re onto it when you said this:



> *I think the reason behind this are the RGB lasers. Because they act different than a UHP lamp for example. A lamp has all spectral wavelengths in one source and RGB laser are separate. If you change the values for red, the projector only alters the red lasers and that brings an imbalance in luminance compared to the green and blue lasers. *


You want to basically leave the color luminance’s alone and just adjust the saturation and hue for each primary and secondary color (Or you can use an offset value as Gregg Loewen of Lion AV and THX mentions, but I’d have to find the link again) and just make sure the color gamut sweeps are good. I think after this you’ll find good or at least more acceptable on screen results.


----------



## Jimmy22

@ Dave Harper

it would be nice if you can find the link about the offset value, because I don't exactly understand what you mean by that.

I owned many DLP units before, and for example a Benq W2000 and a Optoma UHD40, which have both RGBRGB color wheels, have not had the issues with color luminance. I measured these units with Delta Errors max 2,0 across all saturation sweeps. The average dE was below 1,0 and the luminance values were all good.

Here is a measurement chart from AVForums of the Benq W2000:










And the luminance values / dE's of the other saturation points were as good as with the 100% points with my unit.

IMHO DLP's with RGBRGB color wheels can be as good as 3-panel units. But as soon as the color wheel has a white or yellow, cyan, magenta segment etc. to boost brightness (Brilliant color etc.) the problems with low color luminance occur.

RGB laser also have issues like you mentioned and with this sentence I think you are right:

"*the RGB lasers act as both the light source AND the color rendition source!*"

And this brings some problems in regards to calibration as it seems.

I will try my best to calibrate the projector and any input is highly welcomed. IMHO we all benefit from that. I hope that the negativity from some people here will tone down a bit, because there is no such thing as "bad intentions" etc. This is pure fantasy  I like the projector quiet a bit beside the mentioned issues and even if I have seen better, that doesn't mean the projector is bad. I have seen way worse units, believe me.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> @ Dave Harper
> 
> it would be nice if you can find the link about the offset value, because I don't exactly understand what you mean by that.
> 
> I owned many DLP units before, and for example a Benq W2000 and a Optoma UHD40, which have both RGBRGB color wheels, have not had the issues with color luminance. I measured these units with Delta Errors max 2,0 across all saturation sweeps. The average dE was below 1,0 and the luminance values were all good.
> 
> Here is a measurement chart from AVForums of the Benq W2000:
> 
> View attachment 3384470
> 
> 
> And the luminance values / dE's of the other saturation points were as good as with the 100% points with my unit.
> 
> IMHO DLP's with RGBRGB color wheels can be as good as 3-panel units. But as soon as the color wheel has a white or yellow, cyan, magenta segment etc. to boost brightness (Brilliant color etc.) the problems with low color luminance occur.
> 
> RGB laser also have issues like you mentioned and with this sentence I think you are right:
> 
> "*the RGB lasers act as both the light source AND the color rendition source!*"
> 
> And this brings some problems in regards to calibration as it seems.
> 
> I will try my best to calibrate the projector and any input is highly welcomed. IMHO we all benefit from that. I hope that the negativity from some people here will tone down a bit, because there is no such thing as "bad intentions" etc. This is pure fantasy  I like the projector quiet a bit beside the mentioned issues and even if I have seen better, that doesn't mean the projector is bad. I have seen way worse units, believe me.


What UST projectors in this price range have you seen better?


----------



## Sub_Zero

Hi there,

yesterday I received my Formovie Theater unit. I also ordered an 100 inch Vava ALR screen, which I didn't get yet.
I tried the Formovie on the blank white wall in my basement and as you can see on the attached pictures, the top left corner is kind of crooked.

I noticed that there is a bump at the Formovie's mirror as you can see in the second picture. Is that normal? Can that have something to do with it or is it because of the crooked wall?


Thanks in advance


----------



## Patrick G

Anyone in Missouri do UST calibrations?


----------



## Dave Harper

Jimmy22 said:


> @ Dave Harper
> 
> it would be nice if you can find the link about the offset value, because I don't exactly understand what you mean by that.
> 
> I owned many DLP units before, and for example a Benq W2000 and a Optoma UHD40, which have both RGBRGB color wheels, have not had the issues with color luminance. I measured these units with Delta Errors max 2,0 across all saturation sweeps. The average dE was below 1,0 and the luminance values were all good.
> 
> Here is a measurement chart from AVForums of the Benq W2000:
> 
> View attachment 3384470
> 
> 
> And the luminance values / dE's of the other saturation points were as good as with the 100% points with my unit.
> 
> IMHO DLP's with RGBRGB color wheels can be as good as 3-panel units. But as soon as the color wheel has a white or yellow, cyan, magenta segment etc. to boost brightness (Brilliant color etc.) the problems with low color luminance occur.
> 
> RGB laser also have issues like you mentioned and with this sentence I think you are right:
> 
> "*the RGB lasers act as both the light source AND the color rendition source!*"
> 
> And this brings some problems in regards to calibration as it seems.
> 
> I will try my best to calibrate the projector and any input is highly welcomed. IMHO we all benefit from that. I hope that the negativity from some people here will tone down a bit, because there is no such thing as "bad intentions" etc. This is pure fantasy  I like the projector quiet a bit beside the mentioned issues and even if I have seen better, that doesn't mean the projector is bad. I have seen way worse units, believe me.


It could be a number of things. If you used a specific display profile that already has built in offsets, or those displays intentionally engineered to limit the white brightness so that the color brightness can match it. This would be something they’d do for home theater centric projectors where this is more important vs business machines that rely on having very bright images to overcome ambient light in their less than ideal environments. 

The problem is that it is natively inherent with single chip displays since there’s absolutely no way that any single color can have the same brightness as full white because color is sequential on these. It’s just a matter of how this issue is attempted to be be rectified in its design, and that seems to change based on its use case.

I’ll see if I can find the link and info. You’re really just fooling the calibration software though, not actually fixing the issue.


----------



## Dave Harper

Sub_Zero said:


> Hi there,
> 
> yesterday I received my Formovie Theater unit. I also ordered an 100 inch Vava ALR screen, which I didn't get yet.
> I tried the Formovie on the blank white wall in my basement and as you can see on the attached pictures, the top left corner is kind of crooked.
> 
> I noticed that there is a bump at the Formovie's mirror as you can see in the second picture. Is that normal? Can that have something to do with it or is it because of the crooked wall?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


It’s the wall.


----------



## Sub_Zero

Dave Harper said:


> It’s the wall.


Thanks for the quick answer, when I receive my ALR screen, will the problem still appear because the wall isn't straight?


----------



## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> It could be a number of things. If you used a specific display profile that already has built in offsets, or those displays intentionally engineered to limit the white brightness so that the color brightness can match it. This would be something they’d do for home theater centric projectors where this is more important vs business machines that rely on having very bright images to overcome ambient light in their less than ideal environments.
> 
> The problem is that it is natively inherent with single chip displays since there’s absolutely no way that any single color can have the same brightness as full white because color is sequential on these. It’s just a matter of how this issue is attempted to be be rectified in its design, and that seems to change based on its use case.
> 
> I’ll see if I can find the link and info. You’re really just fooling the calibration software though, not actually fixing the issue.


Hey Dave - regarding your signature, were you the first (founder) to discover “HDFury LLDV Dolby Vision?” I didn‘t know that that was an HDFury designation. I would think that HDFury would validate the ”solution/enhancement” and perhaps add it to their website as an added benefit of the Vertex2 as another selling point. I see it listed in the specs of the Vertex2 but is there more info regarding LLDV on the HDFury website?


----------



## jkaterenchuk_4012

Djmeltdown65 said:


> Can y'all message me with your mounting solutions? Any of you successfully ceiling mount this pj and have pictures? Anyone build a simple MDF cabinet to make it safer/more visually appealing sitting on the floor?
> 
> There's over 148 pages in this thread and I get lost and overwhelmed. Thanks again!



I received my Formovie Dec 31st and I have mounted it up above my drop ceiling and have it projecting on the wall. I certainly can take a few measurement if you want to contact me with a Private Message on the forum.

Maybe you can even help me as I have it hooked up to a Denon AVR4700 and can't seem to get the audio to play thru the Denon system when streaming with native apps on the Formovie using the menu setting eARC to Auto. When I try it seems to just cause the Formovie to reboot.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jkaterenchuk_4012 said:


> I received my Formovie Dec 31st and I have mounted it up above my drop ceiling and have it projecting on the wall. I certainly can take a few measurement if you want to contact me with a Private Message on the forum.
> 
> Maybe you can even help me as I have it hooked up to a Denon AVR4700 and can't seem to get the audio to play thru the Denon system when streaming with native apps on the Formovie using the menu setting eARC to Auto. When I try it seems to just cause the Formovie to reboot.


Someone mentioned this before and I hooked up my Denon X6700H successfully to eARC. Check the Formovie audio settings under Digital, if I remember correctly, and change to “Bypass.” That solved the problem for me and kudos to the OP who first provided this valuable information.


----------



## JackB

I'm having a Directv issue with my Formovie. There is a straight moving horizontal line that starts at about 30% above the bottom and moves to the top. It waits 5-10 seconds and does it all over again. The line is not defined with an actual visible line but is just like it was an invisible color. I was able to solve the problem just now by pulling the HDMI cable, pausing for ten seconds, and reconnecting it. But my experience tells me it will re-occur. I've tried a different cable in the past but that hasn't made a difference.

Anyone here with DTV that might have had the same experience and found an actual solution?

Also, I have posted the eARC problem with my Denon 2200 in the past. I've tried the Bypass trick and that didn't work for me. Perhaps it's a bug with Denon. My Sony OLED on the same line doesn't have the problem. Perhaps the proper setup on the Denon is different for the Formovie than for the Sony.


----------



## jkaterenchuk_4012

Ricoflashback said:


> Someone mentioned this before and I hooked up my Denon X6700H successfully to eARC. Check the Formovie audio settings under Digital, if I remember correctly, and change to “Bypass.” That solved the problem for me and kudos to the OP who first provided this valuable information.


It worked! Thank you very much to you and the original poster of the solution. I wasted a lot of hours the last few days trying to figure out why it was not working and it comes down to one simple setting. I wish it had been covered or explained in the manual what this setting does but now I know and it is now working from my quick test and with the older cable I was originally using. In case someone else reads this post in addition to locking up and rebooting when attempting to play the streaming apps on the Formovie it would also sometime turn the picture to a bright red/pink color.


----------



## Dave Harper

Sub_Zero said:


> Thanks for the quick answer, when I receive my ALR screen, will the problem still appear because the wall isn't straight?


It should be fine as long as the screen is mounted flush, plumb and level and aligned properly to the projector. 



Ricoflashback said:


> Hey Dave - regarding your signature, were you the first (founder) to discover “HDFury LLDV Dolby Vision?” I didn‘t know that that was an HDFury designation. I would think that HDFury would validate the ”solution/enhancement” and perhaps add it to their website as an added benefit of the Vertex2 as another selling point. I see it listed in the specs of the Vertex2 but is there more info regarding LLDV on the HDFury website?


Yes I’m the one who discovered this while playing with my HDFury Integral or Vertex(1) I believe. 

They wrote a blog post about it:








Enjoy Dynamic DV content from LLDV source on any HDR10 display. | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI


Add DV support to any HDR10 display from any DV/LLDV capable source is now a reality! Boost your HDR10 display capabilities with a stunning new method that started a growing hype on the major AV forums out there with more than 200K+ views on AVforums and AVSforum That so called “hack” or “trick”...




www.hdfury.com







JackB said:


> I'm having a Directv issue with my Formovie. There is a straight moving horizontal line that starts at about 30% above the bottom and moves to the top. It waits 5-10 seconds and does it all over again. The line is not defined with an actual visible line but is just like it was an invisible color. I was able to solve the problem just now by pulling the HDMI cable, pausing for ten seconds, and reconnecting it. But my experience tells me it will re-occur. I've tried a different cable in the past but that hasn't made a difference.
> 
> Anyone here with DTV that might have had the same experience and found an actual solution?
> 
> Also, I have posted the eARC problem with my Denon 2200 in the past. I've tried the Bypass trick and that didn't work for me. Perhaps it's a bug with Denon. My Sony OLED on the same line doesn't have the problem. Perhaps the proper setup on the Denon is different for the Formovie than for the Sony.


It sounds to me like a grounding issue and with something like cable TV or satellite it usually originates there. They probably don’t have the dish or the RG6 cables grounded right at it is coming through your system Ground into the projector through the HDMI that is connected to the DIRECTV receiver.


----------



## kaptaink45

JackB said:


> I'm having a Directv issue with my Formovie. There is a straight moving horizontal line that starts at about 30% above the bottom and moves to the top. It waits 5-10 seconds and does it all over again. The line is not defined with an actual visible line but is just like it was an invisible color. I was able to solve the problem just now by pulling the HDMI cable, pausing for ten seconds, and reconnecting it. But my experience tells me it will re-occur. I've tried a different cable in the past but that hasn't made a difference.
> 
> Anyone here with DTV that might have had the same experience and found an actual solution?
> 
> Also, I have posted the eARC problem with my Denon 2200 in the past. I've tried the Bypass trick and that didn't work for me. Perhaps it's a bug with Denon. My Sony OLED on the same line doesn't have the problem. Perhaps the proper setup on the Denon is different for the Formovie than for the Sony.


I have the same horizontal line issue as you. The only way I could get it to stop was by using a non interlaced resolution. So I was using 1080i for DirecTV, but had to drop to either 720p or another progressive resolution for the horizontal line to stop appearing. Whenever I switch back to 1080i the horizontal appears again. It's annoying bug.


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> Also, I have posted the eARC problem with my Denon 2200 in the past. I've tried the Bypass trick and that didn't work for me. Perhaps it's a bug with Denon. My Sony OLED on the same line doesn't have the problem. Perhaps the proper setup on the Denon is different for the Formovie than for the Sony.


Is the problem with audio only on Directv? Any other audio settings there? I also assume that you are connecting the HDMI output from your DTV to the Cab/Sat input on your Denon 2200? There must be other DTV satellite users who have the Formovie Theater Projector. Hopefully, they can chime in?

Othewise, on your Denon 2200, if you have HDMI Control set to "On," (CEC) ARC should automatically switch on. If not, then you'd need to change ARC to "On." Also - maybe check the HDMI setting on your Denon 2200 for the corresponding HDMI input on your AVR. That's the only thing I can think off. Good luck and I hope you find a solution.


----------



## JagNL

Sub_Zero said:


> Thanks for the quick answer, when I receive my ALR screen, will the problem still appear because the wall isn't straight?


Had the same issue when projecting on my wall, since it's projecting from below it shows any imperfections. Once I got my screen assembled it is no longer due to the screen providing a flat surface to project onto.


----------



## g3m

kaptaink45 said:


> I have the same horizontal line issue as you. The only way I could get it to stop was by using a non interlaced resolution. So I was using 1080i for DirecTV, but had to drop to either 720p or another progressive resolution for the horizontal line to stop appearing. Whenever I switch back to 1080i the horizontal appears again. It's annoying bug.


Did you guys try activating and deactivating "DI Film Mode" in the Advanced video menu? I think DI stands for Deinterlace. Maybe that's what it's for.


----------



## Djmeltdown65

jkaterenchuk_4012 said:


> I received my Formovie Dec 31st and I have mounted it up above my drop ceiling and have it projecting on the wall. I certainly can take a few measurement if you want to contact me with a Private Message on the forum.
> 
> Maybe you can even help me as I have it hooked up to a Denon AVR4700 and can't seem to get the audio to play thru the Denon system when streaming with native apps on the Formovie using the menu setting eARC to Auto. When I try it seems to just cause the Formovie to reboot.


Hi John, thanks for replying. I have a ceiling height of about 94 1/2" and I'm concerned that using anything short of a few-inch tall ceiling mount will place my screen on the floor. What mount did you use? Do you have any links for it? I'm afraid I will have to mount it on the floor by creating some type of custom console table / entertainment center. That would also be a problem for my subwoofer which is about 16" high. Can you post any pictures you have of your setup and mount? Thank you again! Glad you seem to have the audio issue sorted out.


----------



## JackB

kaptaink45 said:


> I have the same horizontal line issue as you. The only way I could get it to stop was by using a non interlaced resolution. So I was using 1080i for DirecTV, but had to drop to either 720p or another progressive resolution for the horizontal line to stop appearing. Whenever I switch back to 1080i the horizontal appears again. It's annoying bug.


You might try a different hdmi cable. I did and it went away. However, I want to give it a little time to be sure because unplugging the previous cable and reinserting it fixed the problem for awhile before. But then it eventually came back. Also, switching the AVR to a different input would seem to fix it temporarily. But it would come back. Sometimes it is more intense than other times. Could be that Dave is right on the grounding. I wonder if a grounding problem would cause a build up or it would always be constant.

I’ll also try 720P. Did you find much difference in the picture?

Edit: I did not try DI Film Mode. Good idea. I wonder if it’s automatic enough to recognize interlace and only turn on for that?


----------



## Ricoflashback

JackB said:


> You might try a different hdmi cable. I did and it went away. However, I want to give it a little time to be sure because unplugging the previous cable and reinserting it fixed the problem for awhile before. But then it eventually came back. Also, switching the AVR to a different input would seem to fix it temporarily. But it would come back. Sometimes it is more intense than other times. Could be that Dave is right on the grounding. I wonder if a grounding problem would cause a build up or it would always be constant.
> 
> I’ll also try 720P. Did you find much difference in the picture?
> 
> Edit: I did not try DI Film Mode. Good idea. I wonder if it’s automatic enough to recognize interlace and only turn on for that?


Doesn't Directv have a 1080p output setting? Any reason you would use 1080i? One of the benefits of the Denon x6700H is that it upscales cable content to 4K as well as sharpening it. I don't believe the Denon 2200 has that same capability.


----------



## antjes

Someone using HdFury with Formovie Theater , could you tell me what information you can see in DV EDID data block?










This example is my T1 data, you will have to play DV video.
Thanks and sorry for off topic.


----------



## kaptaink45

Ricoflashback said:


> Doesn't Directv have a 1080p output setting? Any reason you would use 1080i? One of the benefits of the Denon x6700H is that it upscales cable content to 4K as well as sharpening it. I don't believe the Denon 2200 has that same capability.


Only PPV and some other streaming stuff is in 1080p for DirecTV, Broadcast and cable channels only come in at 720p or 1080i at highest resolution.

@JackB using 720p makes the picture not quite as sharp to my eyes as 1080i, but not a huge difference.


----------



## kaptaink45

g3m said:


> Did you guys try activating and deactivating "DI Film Mode" in the Advanced video menu? I think DI stands for Deinterlace. Maybe that's what it's for.


I tried turning on and off the DI film mode, still get the horizontal lines , Thanks for the suggestion though!


----------



## Ricoflashback

kaptaink45 said:


> Only PPV and some other streaming stuff is in 1080p for DirecTV, Broadcast and cable channels only come in at 720p or 1080i at highest resolution.
> 
> @JackB using 720p makes the picture not quite as sharp to my eyes as 1080i, but not a huge difference.


Got it. Thanks. It's been a long time since I had Directv. Back then, you could choose "native resolution" of the incoming signal. I don't think that's possible right now - only 720p and 1080i with no upscaling to 1080p option. Those two choices are the native broadcast cable resolutions. Cable boxes have the ability to upscale to 1080p any 720p or 1080i content. And, pass along 4K sources. I'm surprised the Directv doesn't have an option to upscale everything to 1080p from broadcast source content.


----------



## jkaterenchuk_4012

Djmeltdown65 said:


> Hi John, thanks for replying. I have a ceiling height of about 94 1/2" and I'm concerned that using anything short of a few-inch tall ceiling mount will place my screen on the floor. What mount did you use? Do you have any links for it? I'm afraid I will have to mount it on the floor by creating some type of custom console table / entertainment center. That would also be a problem for my subwoofer which is about 16" high. Can you post any pictures you have of your setup and mount? Thank you again! Glad you seem to have the audio issue sorted out.


I actually have a 2 x 2 drop ceiling and the bottom of the above floor studs are about 12 inches above the back side of the drop ceiling panels. With a bit of testing and trial and error, I was able to fabricate a mount out of wood and some adjustable turnbuckles. The top of the turnbuckle mounts to the bottom side of the floor joists and the other end mounts to a bar on the bottom side of the Formovie. There are two bars and they are attached to the mounting bolt holes with 4mm bolts on the bottom of the Formovie. This allows me to make up and down adjustments (about 2 in up or down) for the projector at four points and dial it in so that it is level with the floor and perpendicular to the wall/screen. So basically it is hanging down from the bottom of the joists to the height I want. Just in case anyone is wondering I also added a couple of other safety straps that are separate and independently mounted to the joists just in case something fails so the projector won't come crashing to the floor or on someone.

In my case, I found that having the top side of the projector (the side now facing the floor) about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch above the ceiling tile allows for an image from the keystone adjustment setting that is about 11 inches down from the ceiling, 62 inches on the side and 107 in wide (roughly 123 in diagonal). This makes the bottom of the image about 21 inches from the floor. My ceiling is only 94 inches from the floor. The net result is the entire projector is hidden up in the space between the drop ceiling and the floor joists, it has plenty of open space for cooling airflow, the remote works fine and all I see is a small opening where the light beams down in one of the ceiling tiles. I use an AVR but a side bonus is that the Formovie built-in speakers are still easily heard thru the ceiling tiles and opening.

Here are a couple of pictures I took a few days ago. In a week or two the new floors will be installed and at that time I will install all the wiring in the wall at the location of the AVR so everything will be hidden running up to the projector and the wood trim strips around the projector opening in the ceiling will be painted white so they blend in with everything else.

I am also getting some work done to the slanted wall to the right of the projected image and when complete that wall will not longer be slanted. That will allow me to move the projector back from the projection wall but still in the ceiling by a few inches and give me close to 136 in diagonal picture.


----------



## Ricoflashback

jkaterenchuk_4012 said:


> I actually have a 2 x 2 drop ceiling and the bottom of the above floor studs are about 12 inches above the back side of the drop ceiling panels. With a bit of testing and trial and error, I was able to fabricate a mount out of wood and some adjustable turnbuckles. The top of the turnbuckle mounts to the bottom side of the floor joists and the other end mounts to a bar on the bottom side of the Formovie. There are two bars and they are attached to the mounting bolt holes with 4mm bolts on the bottom of the Formovie. This allows me to make up and down adjustments (about 2 in up or down) for the projector at four points and dial it in so that it is level with the floor and perpendicular to the wall/screen. So basically it is hanging down from the bottom of the joists to the height I want. Just in case anyone is wondering I also added a couple of other safety straps that are separate and independently mounted to the joists just in case something fails so the projector won't come crashing to the floor or on someone.
> 
> In my case, I found that having the top side of the projector (the side now facing the floor) about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch above the ceiling tile allows for an image from the keystone adjustment setting that is about 11 inches down from the ceiling, 62 inches on the side and 107 in wide (roughly 123 in diagonal). This makes the bottom of the image about 21 inches from the floor. My ceiling is only 94 inches from the floor. The net result is the entire projector is hidden up in the space between the drop ceiling and the floor joists, it has plenty of open space for cooling airflow, the remote works fine and all I see is a small opening where the light beams down in one of the ceiling tiles. I use an AVR but a side bonus is that the Formovie built-in speakers are still easily heard thru the ceiling tiles and opening.
> 
> Here are a couple of pictures I took a few days ago. In a week or two the new floors will be installed and at that time I will install all the wiring in the wall at the location of the AVR so everything will be hidden running up to the projector and the wood trim strips around the projector opening in the ceiling will be painted white so they blend in with everything else.
> 
> I am also getting some work done to the slanted wall to the right of the projected image and when complete that wall will not longer be slanted. That will allow me to move the projector back from the projection wall but still in the ceiling by a few inches and give me close to 136 in diagonal picture.
> 
> View attachment 3385371
> View attachment 3385372


Hey - you have an Atmos height speaker, as well!


----------



## Jimmy22

I tried to calibrate the 100% saturation points in the best way possible and the inner saturations 25 - 75% are very inaccurate after that. Many red colors in videos look highly undersaturated for example, which is no wonder when the 50 and 75% points are that far off.
The luminance values, especially with magenta and cyan are very low, even if I dialed the color luminance value in the CMS to the maximum.
















That's why I said the the colors in the Rec709 space look very weird. Kraine from projectormondos has posted a chart which looked pretty accurate, but without seeing the inner saturation points it is only part of the whole story.

IMHO it is impossible to get an accurate picture without using a 3D LUT.
Without using a 3D LUT you can only calibrate the 50 or 75% saturations and live with highly overaturated 100% saturations, and then still the low luminance issues remain. The saturation and luminance linearity is not correctable without external solutions.

I hope that people are not getting offended again, but these issues rob the fun with the projector for me and I hope that Formovie can produce a firmware for the projector to correct these issues, even if I doubt that will happen.

And regarding the sharpness, I think I was also not wrong when I said I have seen much better. Chris Majestic, one of the participants of the UST shootout made a new video where he compared the sharpness to a LG HU915QB. Here is his new video:






This is how the Formovie looks in comparison:









It's pretty obvious, that the Formovie is much softer and has less "Microcontrast". I still don't understand why the Formovie gets a score of 9.2 in the UHD Detail / Sharpness category and the LG HU915QB gets an 8.3, it does not make any sense to me and I begin to question the whole shootout to be honest.









I mainly bought the Formovie because of the good test results and I am pretty disappointed as someone can imagine. Colors and sharpness are some of the most important parts of the picture and for 3000 dollars this is not acceptable for me. It's not my intention to ruin anyones joy with the projector, but I also think I have the right to post about these issues instead of concealing them and sweep them under the carpet.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Jimmy22 said:


> The measured values I got was 0.042 cd/m² black luminance and 121 cd/m² white luminance = contrast of around 2880:1. I measured it with my i1 Display Colorimeter, as my spectrometer is not sufficient at reading these kind of black values (I believe 0.1 cd/m² is the darkest my spectro can read).


Good afternoon!

Thanks for your test!
What screen size do you have? And what is the brightness on a completely white pattern? This is to understand that the device does not reduce the brightness on your pattern.


Sincerely.


----------



## kraine

Maybe you should ask yourself why you are the only one to come to this conclusion?

I don't share your opinion at all and even less your post calibration results. I gave my results with diagrams much better than yours (well for the few we could see) but certainly because my probe is calibrated to measure a laser projector.
Then to calibrate this projector to rec.709 references is simply a waste considering its extended Gamut capabilities.





Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> Then to calibrate this projector to rec.709 references is simply a waste considering its extended Gamut capabilities.


Good afternoon!

Have you only calibrated the projector in the native color space? In the review there are only frames of films in DV, according to which you conclude that this works correctly. Do you know what the frame should look like? There is not a single pattern how the projector displays shadows and highlights...


Sincerely.


----------



## kraine

After having amused us and having made a mistake on the dynamic contrast, he tries a new approach on the calibration. Nice try but you will stay in my personal ban.


----------



## Vladimirovich

kraine said:


> After having amused us and having made a mistake on the dynamic contrast, he tries a new approach on the calibration. Nice try but you will stay in my personal ban.


Read carefully what I wrote about dynamic contrast! I didn't claim anything.
I was surprised that you did not check it in ANY WAY!
At the same time, you consider yourself a super professional in this field!
Well, nothing, other people have done it for you...

The same goes for the calibration in rec 709 and the absence of patterns for display in shadows and highlights. You do not have this in the review, but you draw conclusions from the frames. Perhaps you know how any frame from the film should look right?
And up the thread, a user posts problems in the shadows when playing a pattern in DV...


Sincerely.


----------



## mrajkovic

Received my Formovie Theater (first projector) last week and so far I am super amazed by it's performance. Color accuracy out of the box is even better than I hoped for. Playing games on a console is absolutely insane. As for the input lag (game mode), I did not find it problematic at all in God of War: Ragnarok, but when I tried playing Elden Ring which is known for quick reactions, it is unfortunately not good enough for me.

However, I have couple of questions if anyone is kind enough to answer them:

On the focus adjust screen located in the settings, when pressing arrows left/right on the remote, no focus adjustment actually happens. I tried pressing many times and even holding but there is zero change. Remote is working perfectly as I can see arrows being highlighted on the projection when I am pressing them. Is there a trick to this?
Right now the projector is located in my bedroom and since I am projecting on a white wall, you can imagine how much ambient reflections I get at night. When watching in Night mode brightness + Movie preset (dimmest of all), I find the projection to be still too bright. I understand that negative gain screen would solve the issue, but is there anything else I can do on a white wall? I thought of putting a ND filter on the glass lens if that is something that could work? Perhaps there are some tricks on the source side (PC/PS5) that can be done?
In the manual, it is stated that the "Formovie" logo is supposed to be illuminated only on startup of the projector and should go off after couple of minutes when the projector is turned off. However, mine is illuminated all the time when turned off. Any way to change this?

Appreciate all the help and sorry if this has already been answered but after checking through almost all the pages in this topic, I was not able to find these answers.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Vladimirovich said:


> Read carefully what I wrote about dynamic contrast! I didn't claim anything.
> I was surprised that you did not check it in ANY WAY!
> At the same time, you consider yourself a super professional in this field!
> Well, nothing, other people have done it for you...
> 
> The same goes for the calibration in rec 709 and the absence of patterns for display in shadows and highlights. You do not have this in the review, but you draw conclusions from the frames. Perhaps you know how any frame from the film should look right?
> And up the thread, a user posts problems in the shadows when playing a pattern in DV...
> 
> 
> Sincerely.


Worthless post. Suggestion - take Jimmy22 with you and start your own thread. All other forum posters on this thread can gladly respond there - especially if they agree with your statements about Kraine and his professional qualifications over yours and Jimmy22.


----------



## macphistoo

Any idea if they will make Netflix available at some point (maybe by updating to Google TV ?)


----------



## Vladimirovich

Ricoflashback said:


> Worthless post. Suggestion - take Jimmy22 with you and start your own thread. All other forum posters on this thread can gladly respond there - especially if they agree with your statements about Kraine and his professional qualifications over yours and Jimmy22.


I don't need to be rude!
Useless here you are, judging by the content of your messages.

Your favorite professional did not answer any of the uncomfortable questions, repeating like an offended schoolboy about a personal ban...

Sincerely.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Vladimirovich said:


> I don't need to be rude!
> Useless here you are, judging by the content of your messages.
> 
> Your favorite professional did not answer any of the uncomfortable questions, repeating like an offended schoolboy about a personal ban...
> 
> Sincerely.


You and Jimmy22 have continually wasted space in this thread, IMHO. You add no value, you help no one on this thread with their Formovie Global Theater projector. Your constant assumptions, questions and conclusions have little basis in fact. Kraine is a very respected calibrator with many years of published reviews. To me - all you and Jimmy22 do is drive continual FUD about the Formovie GT1. Really - if you both don’t like the projector - find another one. Maybe a road trip to China and a joint presentation by you and Jimmy22 to the Formovie Development team to present your findings. You obviously are not gaining much traction here.


----------



## Ricoflashback

macphistoo said:


> Any idea if they will make Netflix available at some point (maybe by updating to Google TV ?)


Probably not with the Netflix licensing requirements. Have you considered a separate streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro or Apple TV 4K? While it costs more money to by one of these units, the processing power, capabilities and picture quality is far superior to the internal apps. Easier to use, as well.


----------



## macphistoo

Ricoflashback said:


> Probably not with the Netflix licensing requirements. Have you considered a separate streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro or Apple TV 4K? While it costs more money to by one of these units, the processing power, capabilities and picture quality is far superior to the internal apps. Easier to use, as well.


Yes I do own a nVidia Shield 2022 but really wanted a kind of "all-in-one" device. I know it's a little bit off topic, but what's exactly the story behind Android 11 and Netflix unavailability ? I noticed there is a lot of devices without Netflix out there...


----------



## Newbie1963

If Jimmy loves the LG’s sharpness then he should cough up the extra 3500 and buy one. Stop bleeding all over this thread Jimmy.


----------



## Ricoflashback

macphistoo said:


> Yes I do own a nVidia Shield 2022 but really wanted a kind of "all-in-one" device. I know it's a little bit off topic, but what's exactly the story behind Android 11 and Netflix unavailability ? I noticed there is a lot of devices without Netflix out there...


Again, I think it has to do with the licensing cost as required by Netflix. An all in one solution would be nice but even with Sony TV’s that have the best internal apps processing out there - I find a separate streamer is a must have. It’s way faster with many picture options, as well. Personally, I’ve turned off HDR/DV when watching with my Formovie Global Theater projector by using the options with my Nvidia Shield Pro streamer and I get a stone cold, pristine, beautiful streaming UHD/4K SDR picture that is razor sharp with Nvidia’s AI upscaling settings. I also get an incredible cable picture using my Denon AVR’s upscaling to 4K and sharpening options. So - any extra external processing, IMHO, is better than the internal apps.


----------



## macphistoo

I must admit the 1080p AI upscaling to 4K on the Shield is really, really nice !


----------



## 3sprit

Formovie Official said:


> Question 4): This situation should be a hardware failure, we recommend that you replace the product, and then we will analyze and repair the faulty product.


Who changes it? It is a problem that many of us have. The right side is in focus, the left side is not.


----------



## rjyap

Jimmy22 said:


> I tried to calibrate the 100% saturation points in the best way possible and the inner saturations 25 - 75% are very inaccurate after that. Many red colors in videos look highly undersaturated for example, which is no wonder when the 50 and 75% points are that far off.
> The luminance values, especially with magenta and cyan are very low, even if I dialed the color luminance value in the CMS to the maximum.
> View attachment 3385541
> View attachment 3385542
> 
> 
> That's why I said the the colors in the Rec709 space look very weird. Kraine from projectormondos has posted a chart which looked pretty accurate, but without seeing the inner saturation points it is only part of the whole story.
> 
> IMHO it is impossible to get an accurate picture without using a 3D LUT.
> Without using a 3D LUT you can only calibrate the 50 or 75% saturations and live with highly overaturated 100% saturations, and then still the low luminance issues remain. The saturation and luminance linearity is not correctable without external solutions.
> 
> I hope that people are not getting offended again, but these issues rob the fun with the projector for me and I hope that Formovie can produce a firmware for the projector to correct these issues, even if I doubt that will happen.
> 
> And regarding the sharpness, I think I was also not wrong when I said I have seen much better. Chris Majestic, one of the participants of the UST shootout made a new video where he compared the sharpness to a LG HU915QB. Here is his new video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the Formovie looks in comparison:
> View attachment 3385544
> 
> 
> It's pretty obvious, that the Formovie is much softer and has less "Microcontrast". I still don't understand why the Formovie gets a score of 9.2 in the UHD Detail / Sharpness category and the LG HU915QB gets an 8.3, it does not make any sense to me and I begin to question the whole shootout to be honest.
> View attachment 3385545
> 
> 
> I mainly bought the Formovie because of the good test results and I am pretty disappointed as someone can imagine. Colors and sharpness are some of the most important parts of the picture and for 3000 dollars this is not acceptable for me. It's not my intention to ruin anyones joy with the projector, but I also think I have the right to post about these issues instead of concealing them and sweep them under the carpet.


Are you calibrating in Rec 2020 or BT 709? My suggestion try to match 50% and 75% color saturation as close as possible. Forget about matching 100% color saturation as seldom there's any content that's using outer most color palette. As for sharpness, my T1 looks way sharper than what Chris majesty posted. Not sure about your unit but try to set the sharpness as low as possible. My T1 is set at around 10.


----------



## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> Who changes it? It is a problem that many of us have. The right side is in focus, the left side is not.


Agreed. But I don't notice it very much when watching content. My left, upper corner doesn't seem out of focus or "soft" when watching shows. Probably a hardware issue as other posters have noted and one who opened up his projector and pushed the lens farther over to sharpen the left side. It would be nice of there was a software update solution but that might not be possible.


----------



## Vladimirovich

Ricoflashback said:


> You and Jimmy22 have continually wasted space in this thread, IMHO. You add no value, you help no one on this thread with their Formovie Global Theater projector. Your constant assumptions, questions and conclusions have little basis in fact. Kraine is a very respected calibrator with many years of published reviews. To me - all you and Jimmy22 do is drive continual FUD about the Formovie GT1. Really - if you both don’t like the projector - find another one. Maybe a road trip to China and a joint presentation by you and Jimmy22 to the Formovie Development team to present your findings. You obviously are not gaining much traction here.


Read your posts! They are useless and they have one flood and offtopic and rudeness!
I asked a question about contrast that your great pro didn't check! Another person did it for him, whom you are now pouring mud on!
About your professional's answer about the fact that you do not need to calibrate in rec709, it's just no comment ...

Sincerely.


----------



## Jimmy22

rjyap said:


> Are you calibrating in Rec 2020 or BT 709? My suggestion try to match 50% and 75% color saturation as close as possible. Forget about matching 100% color saturation as seldom there's any content that's using outer most color palette. As for sharpness, my T1 looks way sharper than what Chris majesty posted. Not sure about your unit but try to set the sharpness as low as possible. My T1 is set at around 10.


BT709, and yes you are right, 50 or 75% targets are the better way to calibrate it (I mentioned it in my post too). But the low color luminance (dark colors) remain.

I don't know how big the sharpness variation of the projectors are, but mine also looks similar to Chris' unit. My sharpness setting is set @ 10 also, but the native sharpness without software enhancement should be 0.


----------



## Jimmy22

Vladimirovich said:


> Read your posts! They are useless and they have one flood and offtopic and rudeness!
> I asked a question about contrast that your great pro didn't check! Another person did it for him, whom you are now pouring mud on!
> About your professional's answer about the fact that you do not need to calibrate in rec709, it's just no comment ...
> 
> Sincerely.


I agree 100% with you and the posts of some people seem also ridiculous to me.
I guess we live in different universes, but even then people should keep respect to others and don't have to be rude.


----------



## Patrick G

Ricoflashback said:


> macphistoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea if they will make Netflix available at some point (maybe by updating to Google TV ?)
> 
> 
> 
> Probably not with the Netflix licensing requirements. Have you considered a separate streamer like the Nvidia Shield Pro or Apple TV 4K? While it costs more money to by one of these units, the processing power, capabilities and picture quality is far superior to the internal apps. Easier to use, as well.
Click to expand...

Would a Roku Ultra work?


----------



## Jimmy22

kraine said:


> Maybe you should ask yourself why you are the only one to come to this conclusion?
> 
> I don't share your opinion at all and even less your post calibration results. I gave my results with diagrams much better than yours (well for the few we could see) but certainly because my probe is calibrated to measure a laser projector. Then to calibrate this projector to rec.709 references is simply a waste considering its extended Gamut capabilities.


First, I am not the only one, just read this review for example:









Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com


New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...




hometheaterhifi.com





Here is the calibration chart of the projector, which translates exactly to what I measured:









As you can see there are exactly the same issues with the saturation linearity and the low color luminance. As regards to my meters, I own two spectrophotometers, one is an i1 Pro 2, which I use in Hi-Res mode and the other is a pretty expensive handheld spectro with high spectral accuracy and the difference between the i1 Pro 2 and the OHSP350 is only minor, so that argument does also not count. This is the technical datasheet of my handheld spectro and I think it's enough for measuring the projector.








And last I have to say that your argument that calibrating the projector to BT709 is waste, seems very weak to me. Are you aware, that the majority of content is in this color space? Videogames, Netflix, Apple TV, PC, Youtube etc. Over 95% is still BT709. A projector should be capable of delivering accurate colors in BT709 and P3/BT2020, especially those projectors with RGB Laser which are capable of doing this with correct implementation from the manufacturers.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Patrick G said:


> Would a Roku Ultra work?


Yes - also an excellent streamer. I've always liked the Roku interface but ended up with the Nvidia Shield Pro due to it's processing capabilities and the backlit remote - - which is really handy in a dark theater environment.


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> First, I am not the only one, just read this review for example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com
> 
> 
> New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hometheaterhifi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the calibration chart of the projector, which translates exactly to what I measured:
> View attachment 3385624
> 
> 
> As you can see there are exactly the same issues with the saturation linearity and the low color luminance. As regards to my meters, I own two spectrophotometers, one is an i1 Pro 2, which I use in Hi-Res mode and the other is a pretty expensive handheld spectro with high spectral accuracy and the difference between the i1 Pro 2 and the OHSP350 is only minor, so that argument does also not count. This is the technical datasheet of my handheld spectro and I think it's enough for measuring the projector.
> View attachment 3385626
> 
> And last I have to say that your argument that calibrating the projector to BT709 is waste, seems very weak to me. Are you aware, that the majority of content is in this color space? Videogames, Netflix, Apple TV, PC, Youtube etc. Over 95% is still BT709. A projector should be capable of delivering accurate colors in BT709 and P3/BT2020, especially those projectors with RGB Laser which are capable of doing this with correct implementation from the manufacturers.


I think it's "Time-out time" for Jimmy22.


----------



## kraine

I calibrate SDR, HDR and Dolby Vision on the Formovie Theater and already have several dozen copies under my belt. So I have a little bit of experience on what is possible on these projectors (the best UST on the market in my opinion). As you can see we are far from what jimmy22 claims by quoting other tests (not his own measurements).


----------



## Jimmy22

Newbie1963 said:


> If Jimmy loves the LG’s sharpness then he should cough up the extra 3500 and buy one. Stop bleeding all over this thread Jimmy.


Nope, I will never buy a UST for 6000 bucks.
But today I ordered a LG HU85, which has also the bigger 0.66 "4K" DLP chip, better optics and should also have better color accuracy according to reviews. I only paid 2200 bucks for a brandnew unit, so it was a nobrainer for me.
I will compare it to the Formovie and will keep my conclusion till then. The contrast will be a bit worse of the LG, but I can live with about 2000:1 instead of 2500:1 calibrated.


----------



## kraine

The LG HU85 is far away from 2000:1 native contrast  And let me have some doubt about his better color accuracy









Test LG HU85LA : l'avis de Grégory - Mondoprojos.fr


C’est la saison des tests de projecteurs laser à ultra courte focale. Après le Xiaomi laser UST 4K, c’est au tour du LG HU85LA de passer sous la loupe de mon regard critique. Toutefois, avant de l’examiner en détails, je souhaite ouvrir une parenthèse sur l’évolution du marché de la...




www.mondoprojos.fr


----------



## Ricoflashback

Jimmy22 said:


> Nope, I will never buy a UST for 6000 bucks.
> But today I ordered a LG HU85, which has also the bigger 0.66 "4K" DLP chip, better optics and should also have better color accuracy according to reviews. I only paid 2200 bucks for a brandnew unit, so it was a nobrainer for me.
> I will compare it to the Formovie and will keep my conclusion till then. The contrast will be a bit worse of the LG, but I can live with about 2000:1 instead of 2500:1 calibrated.


Great! Take all your findings to the LG HU85 thread. That's a no brainer.


----------



## Jimmy22

@ Kraine, you should read my post correctly, I also measured the unit, I just showed you that others in their reviews had similar results. I see, we don't get along with our opinions and that's fine. But you are really not the only one who measures projectors and has experience. There are many people more on this earth. I really enjoy reading your tests, but you also come along as a person who thinks to know everything better and also a bit rude. 

As a "professional" you should work on that, and that is constructive critisism from my side. I'm not a perfect human being too, but I see no fault in my behaviour when I am inspecting the projector and find things which are not good and need to be solved in the next generations from the manufacturers. If everybody here only writes down how great the projector is, do you think anything will change in the future ? It's an open forum for everybody and the people who do not like to read about the problems can easily skip these posts. I also skip the posts of Rico, because it doesn't make sense to me to respond to such posts. There is no point of the rudeness, this is absolute childish behaviour.

And in regards to intent, I am just a normal user and have no connection to any manufacturer. I won't spell any names here, but other people here earn some money here with the projectors by reselling them directly or via affiliate links.
I think that I may be more neutral in my posts than a person who gets money. But again, this is just a side note and I wish everyone well.


----------



## Jimmy22

kraine said:


> The LG HU85 is far away from 2000:1 native contrast  And let me have some doubt about his better color accuracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test LG HU85LA : l'avis de Grégory - Mondoprojos.fr
> 
> 
> C’est la saison des tests de projecteurs laser à ultra courte focale. Après le Xiaomi laser UST 4K, c’est au tour du LG HU85LA de passer sous la loupe de mon regard critique. Toutefois, avant de l’examiner en détails, je souhaite ouvrir une parenthèse sur l’évolution du marché de la...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mondoprojos.fr


Really? LG HU85LA CineBeam ThinQ 4K UHD Projector - Advanced Calibration - Projector Reviews










And here another one:





LG CineBeam HU85LA 4K DLP Projector Review Test Bench


Test Bench FULL-ON/FULL-OFF CONTRAST RATIO: 1,700:1 Calibration measurements were taken in the HU85LA's Expert Bright mode. Display enhancements including dynamic contrast were disabled for calibration and I selected the Warm color temperature preset, 2.2 gamma, Auto color gamut, and took...




www.soundandvision.com





1700:1 native.

Here another one from a well established reviewing site:



https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-lg-hu85ls-ultrakurz-beamer-mit-3-channel-laser/11/#HelligkeitSchwarzwertKontrast



1871:1 native contrast.

And I can find you more reviews which measured in this range.


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## kraine

On the previous page you have my reasoned and measured response to your assertions that I once again find erroneous regarding Formovie Theater's performances. This projector deserves its ranking both by objective tests (measurements) and by the positive opinions of the majority of its owners. 

PS : The LG HU85 has another thread so please continue there.


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## acting.absurd

Hey guys, I'm about to buy a Vertex2 to use LLDV instead of the DV from the Theater. Can someone maybe share their experience using this setup? Is it worth the extra 400€ I have to spend?


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## Dave Harper

JackB said:


> You might try a different hdmi cable. I did and it went away. However, I want to give it a little time to be sure because unplugging the previous cable and reinserting it fixed the problem for awhile before. But then it eventually came back. Also, switching the AVR to a different input would seem to fix it temporarily. But it would come back. Sometimes it is more intense than other times. Could be that Dave is right on the grounding. I wonder if a grounding problem would cause a build up or it would always be constant.
> 
> I’ll also try 720P. Did you find much difference in the picture?
> 
> Edit: I did not try DI Film Mode. Good idea. I wonder if it’s automatic enough to recognize interlace and only turn on for that?


It can be stable for a bit and then it gets out of sync, similar to what you had to adjust back in the old days with CRT analog TVs. You’d have to adjust the “Vertical Hold” knob to lock it in. 

The mismatch usually comes from straight 60Hz AC line frequency leaking into ground and the video is at 59.94Hz, causing an ever so slight mismatch and eventual sync mismatch. 



Jimmy22 said:


> I tried to calibrate the 100% saturation points in the best way possible and the inner saturations 25 - 75% are very inaccurate after that. Many red colors in videos look highly undersaturated for example, which is no wonder when the 50 and 75% points are that far off.
> The luminance values, especially with magenta and cyan are very low, even if I dialed the color luminance value in the CMS to the maximum.
> View attachment 3385541
> View attachment 3385542
> 
> 
> That's why I said the the colors in the Rec709 space look very weird. Kraine from projectormondos has posted a chart which looked pretty accurate, but without seeing the inner saturation points it is only part of the whole story.
> 
> IMHO it is impossible to get an accurate picture without using a 3D LUT.
> Without using a 3D LUT you can only calibrate the 50 or 75% saturations and live with highly overaturated 100% saturations, and then still the low luminance issues remain. The saturation and luminance linearity is not correctable without external solutions.
> 
> I hope that people are not getting offended again, but these issues rob the fun with the projector for me and I hope that Formovie can produce a firmware for the projector to correct these issues, even if I doubt that will happen.
> 
> And regarding the sharpness, I think I was also not wrong when I said I have seen much better. Chris Majestic, one of the participants of the UST shootout made a new video where he compared the sharpness to a LG HU915QB. Here is his new video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is how the Formovie looks in comparison:
> View attachment 3385544
> 
> 
> It's pretty obvious, that the Formovie is much softer and has less "Microcontrast". I still don't understand why the Formovie gets a score of 9.2 in the UHD Detail / Sharpness category and the LG HU915QB gets an 8.3, it does not make any sense to me and I begin to question the whole shootout to be honest.
> View attachment 3385545
> 
> 
> I mainly bought the Formovie because of the good test results and I am pretty disappointed as someone can imagine. Colors and sharpness are some of the most important parts of the picture and for 3000 dollars this is not acceptable for me. It's not my intention to ruin anyones joy with the projector, but I also think I have the right to post about these issues instead of concealing them and sweep them under the carpet.


Colors like magenta and cyan are secondary colors, which require mixing of two primary colors (red+blue=magenta, blue+green=cyan), so with single chip DLPs that means each primary color is only flashing in screen half as much as it would when it shows one of its primary colors, hence the low color luminosity. 

You shouldn’t be shocked by this now. I’ve already said this about single chip DLP. You should dig into more research comparing technologies like LCD vs DLP Color Luminance. Someone already provided a starting point link that I highlighted earlier in the thread. 



Ricoflashback said:


> Worthless post. Suggestion - take Jimmy22 with you and start your own thread. All other forum posters on this thread can gladly respond there - especially if they agree with your statements about Kraine and his professional qualifications over yours and Jimmy22.





Ricoflashback said:


> You and Jimmy22 have continually wasted space in this thread, IMHO. You add no value, you help no one on this thread with their Formovie Global Theater projector. Your constant assumptions, questions and conclusions have little basis in fact. Kraine is a very respected calibrator with many years of published reviews. To me - all you and Jimmy22 do is drive continual FUD about the Formovie GT1. Really - if you both don’t like the projector - find another one. Maybe a road trip to China and a joint presentation by you and Jimmy22 to the Formovie Development team to present your findings. You obviously are not gaining much traction here.





Newbie1963 said:


> If Jimmy loves the LG’s sharpness then he should cough up the extra 3500 and buy one. Stop bleeding all over this thread Jimmy.





Ricoflashback said:


> I think it's "Time-out time" for Jimmy22.





Ricoflashback said:


> Great! Take all your findings to the LG HU85 thread. That's a no brainer.


This needs to stop. Everyone has a voice here and yes his findings are indeed based in fact. This is an inherent thing with single chip DLPs. Some manufacturers are better at overcoming it, at least perceptually, than others. 



Jimmy22 said:


> First, I am not the only one, just read this review for example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com
> 
> 
> New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hometheaterhifi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the calibration chart of the projector, which translates exactly to what I measured:
> View attachment 3385624
> 
> 
> As you can see there are exactly the same issues with the saturation linearity and the low color luminance. As regards to my meters, I own two spectrophotometers, one is an i1 Pro 2, which I use in Hi-Res mode and the other is a pretty expensive handheld spectro with high spectral accuracy and the difference between the i1 Pro 2 and the OHSP350 is only minor, so that argument does also not count. This is the technical datasheet of my handheld spectro and I think it's enough for measuring the projector.
> View attachment 3385626
> 
> And last I have to say that your argument that calibrating the projector to BT709 is waste, seems very weak to me. Are you aware, that the majority of content is in this color space? Videogames, Netflix, Apple TV, PC, Youtube etc. Over 95% is still BT709. A projector should be capable of delivering accurate colors in BT709 and P3/BT2020, especially those projectors with RGB Laser which are capable of doing this with correct implementation from the manufacturers.


Great find with that Spectro! I may have to look into that. Can it interface with CalMAN or similar?



kraine said:


> I calibrate SDR, HDR and Dolby Vision on the Formovie Theater and already have several dozen copies under my belt. So I have a little bit of experience on what is possible on these projectors (the best UST on the market in my opinion). As you can see we are far from what jimmy22 claims by quoting other tests (not his own measurements).
> 
> View attachment 3385637
> 
> View attachment 3385638
> 
> View attachment 3385639
> View attachment 3385640


Those charts aren’t showing color luminance (3D Color Cube?). Do you have any that do? I’d love to see how to get the luminance’s in line, Kraine!


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## acting.absurd

acting.absurd said:


> Hey guys, I'm about to buy a Vertex2 to use LLDV instead of the DV from the Theater. Can someone maybe share their experience using this setup? Is it worth the extra 400€ I have to spend?


Oh and I'm using a shield.


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## arsenalfc89

Jimmy22 said:


> First, I am not the only one, just read this review for example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Formovie Theater Laser Projector Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com
> 
> 
> New to the ultra-short throw projector scene is the Formovie Theater Laser Projector. It’s billed as a television replacement ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hometheaterhifi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the calibration chart of the projector, which translates exactly to what I measured:
> View attachment 3385624
> 
> 
> As you can see there are exactly the same issues with the saturation linearity and the low color luminance. As regards to my meters, I own two spectrophotometers, one is an i1 Pro 2, which I use in Hi-Res mode and the other is a pretty expensive handheld spectro with high spectral accuracy and the difference between the i1 Pro 2 and the OHSP350 is only minor, so that argument does also not count. This is the technical datasheet of my handheld spectro and I think it's enough for measuring the projector.
> View attachment 3385626
> 
> And last I have to say that your argument that calibrating the projector to BT709 is waste, seems very weak to me. Are you aware, that the majority of content is in this color space? Videogames, Netflix, Apple TV, PC, Youtube etc. Over 95% is still BT709. A projector should be capable of delivering accurate colors in BT709 and P3/BT2020, especially those projectors with RGB Laser which are capable of doing this with correct implementation from the manufacturers.


I agree with you about the low color luminance, which makes using a 3D LUT necessary especially on a dimmer projector. I think the low luminance may be a result of the triple laser light source. My AWOL had low luminance at the far edges as well but 3D LUT on my Lumagen helped. My previous ALPD unit also had the same low luminance. I think the Epson LS800 might not have this issue as that can provide full brightness to white and all colors. I didn't get a chance to check tho when I did have the LS800.


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## arsenalfc89

Deleted


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## Ricoflashback

Dave Harper said:


> This needs to stop. Everyone has a voice here and yes his findings are indeed based in fact. This is an inherent thing with single chip DLPs. Some manufacturers are better at overcoming it, at least perceptually, than others.


It can be easily stopped by taking all the HD Fury/Vertex2/LLDV talk to another thread as well as any comparison of the Formovie Global Theater projector to the LG HU85 thread. Especially for HD Fury/Vertex2/LLDV - - just refer them to a LLDV thread you create, Dave, (already created?) as that would be an excellent way to share all your LLDV creations/manifestations. And, I assume, this HDFury/Vertex2/LLDVthread would be applicable to other projectors besides the Global Formovie Theater PJ? A great service to the community.


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## Jimmy22

Dave Harper said:


> Colors like magenta and cyan are secondary colors, which require mixing of two primary colors (red+blue=magenta, blue+green=cyan), so with single chip DLPs that means each primary color is only flashing in screen half as much as it would when it shows one of its primary colors, hence the low color luminosity.
> 
> You shouldn’t be shocked by this now. I’ve already said this about single chip DLP. You should dig into more research comparing technologies like LCD vs DLP Color Luminance. Someone already provided a starting point link that I highlighted earlier in the thread.
> 
> *I'm not shocked, but I hoped that it could be solved with the Formovie via the color management. I hope that LG implemented better luminance accuracy. I understand, what you wrote about the flaws of DLP projectors, but you also mentioned that it is possible for the manufacturers to "trick" the projectors for correct color luminance. I know, that it is possible, as I owned various DLP models which had correct behaviour.*
> 
> This needs to stop. Everyone has a voice here and yes his findings are indeed based in fact. This is an inherent thing with single chip DLPs. Some manufacturers are better at overcoming it, at least perceptually, than others.
> *
> Thank you, it really needs to stop.*
> 
> 
> Great find with that Spectro! I may have to look into that. Can it interface with CalMAN or similar?
> 
> *It's really a great device, but sadly it can not interface with calibration software, it's only a handheld spectro with a display.*
> 
> Those charts aren’t showing color luminance (3D Color Cube?). Do you have any that do? I’d love to see how to get the luminance’s in line, Kraine!
> 
> *Yes, I waited for this too.*


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## 3sprit

Deleted


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## 3sprit

Ricoflashback said:


> Agreed. But I don't notice it very much when watching content. My left, upper corner doesn't seem out of focus or "soft" when watching shows. Probably a hardware issue as other posters have noted and one who opened up his projector and pushed the lens farther over to sharpen the left side. It would be nice of there was a software update solution but that might not be possible.


I don't have a CLR screen yet, but more than the "top left corner" it's the left side which is less focused than the right side (and I have a greenish/white on the sides...).


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## Ricoflashback

3sprit said:


> I don't have a CLR screen yet, but more than the "top left corner" it's the left side which is less focused than the right side (and I have a greenish/white on the sides...).


That's more concerning. And I don't think a CLR/ALR screen will fix it. What size image are you projecting and are you projecting on a wall or a white screen? If your wall is uneven or if you do not have a fixed screen, that can cause problems. Hopefully, you bought from a reputable dealer and your projector is still under warranty. I wouldn't hesitate to send it back if you can't get it resolved.


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## noonsa

Can anyone who uses an HDFury for LLDV with the Formovie Theater post some comparisons of the image with the onboard DV and when using the HDFury? I was fine with the native image but I keep reading about how people have their minds blown by the difference. I'm using a Shield Pro with a Sony Atmos sound bar. Would this be a worthwhile purchase with my set up?


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## Benno_Fox

Hello,

I have been reading this forum for years and following the Fengmi discussion (T1 and Global) for months. Sorry to disturb the current discussion. I need some support.

I have a Pioneer VSX-LX302 that serves as a source. (also supports Dolby Vision)
Current projector: Acer M550 
Main usage: 
70% Sony PS5
30% FireTV 4K Stick 

I'm not going to use the built-in Android, so I'm leaning towards the T1 and would opt against the global version. 

Would this also be the community's recommendation? Any questions on this.

1. does the beamer start in the last setting or do I have to manually change the source to the Pioneer (for example HDMI 1)? 
2. does the gaming mode use 4K or 1080p? 
3. does the global version have better picture quality?
4. would a Xiaomi Laser Cinema 2 or AWOL LTV-3500 be a better choice for me? 

I put the question in both threads, hope that's okay.
Thanks a lot for the help! Best Benno


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## Joered101

Jimmy22 said:


> Really? LG HU85LA CineBeam ThinQ 4K UHD Projector - Advanced Calibration - Projector Reviews
> View attachment 3385660
> 
> 
> 
> And here another one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LG CineBeam HU85LA 4K DLP Projector Review Test Bench
> 
> 
> Test Bench FULL-ON/FULL-OFF CONTRAST RATIO: 1,700:1 Calibration measurements were taken in the HU85LA's Expert Bright mode. Display enhancements including dynamic contrast were disabled for calibration and I selected the Warm color temperature preset, 2.2 gamma, Auto color gamut, and took...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soundandvision.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1700:1 native.
> 
> Here another one from a well established reviewing site:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.prad.de/testberichte/test-lg-hu85ls-ultrakurz-beamer-mit-3-channel-laser/11/#HelligkeitSchwarzwertKontrast
> 
> 
> 
> 1871:1 native contrast.
> 
> And I can find you more reviews which measured in this range.



Jimmy, you reckon i could trouble you with explaining how i would implement a 3d lut through windows? Did you get a chance to try it on yours? For example the right settings in display cal to generate the right lut, as mine look whack through MPC-HC...

thanks!


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## Ricoflashback

Multi-purpose, home theater and dining room pics. Almost completed with some paint touch up needed. This is a nice way to incorporate a home theater with a UST projector. I don't have a center channel/speaker, so I'm using a phantom center with four Focal Chora 826-D's with upfiring Atmos speakers built it. I couldn't, aesthetic wise, mount speakers all around like I had in my dedicated, basement HT room after we moved. A nice compromise though - - still good Atmos effects. I'll be upgrading to the SVS 3000 Micro subwoofer as that's about all the room I have for. The shutters do a wonderful job of managing light during the daytime. Much better than what I had before. Still - 95% of my watching is a night where it's a pitch black environment and I need a motion activated, night light so I don't stumble around. Now that it's all setup, I'll post some SDR UHD/4K streaming (Nvidia Shield Pro) and upscaled cable pics (Denon X6700H.)

I'm still amazed with the colors and sharpness of my Global Formovie Theater Projector. A real treat and a great solution for those of us who cannot mount a regular throw projector.


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## Aztar35

Jimmy22 said:


> And regarding the sharpness, I think I was also not wrong when I said I have seen much better. Chris Majestic, one of the participants of the UST shootout made a new video where he compared the sharpness to a LG HU915QB. Here is his new video:
> 
> This is how the Formovie looks in comparison:
> View attachment 3385544
> 
> 
> It's pretty obvious, that the Formovie is much softer and has less "Microcontrast". I still don't understand why the Formovie gets a score of 9.2 in the UHD Detail / Sharpness category and the LG HU915QB gets an 8.3, it does not make any sense to me and I begin to question the whole shootout to be honest.
> View attachment 3385545


Sharpness is a very important image quality to me too. I can tell you that when I saw a Formovie Theater in action, sharpness was not the first word that came to my mind. However, that unit just happened to be at a dealer's demo room as a return with some type of issue, so I was curious about how another unit would look. Still, there have been reports like the one you linked and one other, that I can think of at least, comparing the T1 platform to another UST and said it wasn't as sharp also.

The Formovie has a .47 DMD where the LG has a .66 for 1528 native resolution, but that runs mostly to resolution, and I can tell you some other brand models use the .47 chip and still look incredibly sharp.

Could this comparatively lesser sharpness have to do with some de-speckling process. Have you tested to see if there's more speckle visible in the LG HU915 than in the Formovie?

At its core, the Formovie is an RGB laser DLP that has relatively high low APL contrast --in this group. Still, that .47 chip, I measured in other USTs and barely got out of the 800:1 (some into 900:1 range) contrast ratio range on those others. Looking carefully at the Formovie's foreign sibling, the Xiaomi Laser C2, to see what's going on, it appears to have some type of undefeatable dynamic dimming. It moves out of black quite well in the lower ADL range, and I suspect that's what Fengmi is using too.


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