# Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!



## SmX

The Completed Theater, updated after the theater was completed:







































First off,


I want to thank all the people who posted incredible tips and techniques in avs that inspired me to get our home theater started. I studied avs and many other resources for over a year and learned a great deal of info. That, plus my building background lead me to get started on our theater.


I will use this thread as my journal and update it on a daily basis when possible.

I will post progress pictures, material usage, cost and time. If anyone cares to add any comments, tips or dont forgets for me along the way, please feel free to chime in.


The space i am using to construct our theater is our 2 car garage which we only used for the past few years to store junk. The garage is constructed with cement walls on 2 sides, the garage door is metal, the back wall and ceiling is drywall and wood studs. The floor is cement.


The idea is to build a room inside a room. Outside noise is not really an issue due to the quiet neighborhood we are in and the house is a quiet home for my wife and i (no kids). Keeping noise from travelling out the theater is more of a concern, but the garage as is right now seems to keep noise within it especially well when I run power tools at 2 - 3am, but bass will be another story







.


The finished inside room dimensions will be 20' x 16' x 8.5" ceiling


Construction will be stagger studded walls all around with 5/8" and 1/2" sheet rock doubled layered on each side of the walls. There will also be insulation iside the walls.


The ceiling will be rsic-1 clips and channel hats with 5/8" and 1/2" sheetrock.

The ceiling will finish as a fiber optic starfield cieling with 4 random shooting stars.


The screen will be 140" wide 2.40:1 SmX ProMask-Curv masking screen with the acoustically transparent CineWeave screen surface. First row of seating will be 135" from the screen.


There will also be a sand filled stage for the front of the theater. There will be a 10" high platform for the rear seating. The seating will be berkline 090's with wedges.


There will also be soffits containing lighting, vac and conduit to run future wire additions or upgrades all around the theater.


There will be columns containing side fills and rear surround speakers.


All lighting will be low voltage.


Here is a layout of what the theater layout will look like.












Here is a Picture of the Actual Garage.











Here is the Lumber to frame out The room which consists of

110 2" x 4" x 8'

20 2" x 6" x 8'

40 2" x 6" x 16'


Cost of framing Lumber was about $560.00











The First Stagger Studded Wall Constructed for our theater. This is the heaviest single wall I ever built at 16' x 8'-3" the rest of the walls will be 8' x 8' walls tied together.











Here are some close up shots of the Stagger Studded walls for those who ask what a stagger studded wall is.





























Here are the rest of the 8' x 8' walls constructed and The final smaller adjoining walls to complete the 20' walls will be completed tonight. After That, its just waiting on Delivery of The Drywall, Sand and Insulation before walls get tied together.











Stay Tuned, All Comments Welcomed


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## Tweakophyte

Great pics... hope it goes well.


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## BadAstronaut

Yes, excellent! Keep us up to date ... looks like I'll be able to learn a lot from your progress.


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## chinadog

Looks like a cool project! Good luck with it.


In your diagram, it looks like you have two columns on the other walls in between the screen and front row of seats. Any reason those are offset and not across from each other? Also, I assume the boxed area in the back corner of the room is for the rack? Also, how are you going to cool the rack and the room?


Bud


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## Brian Ravnaas

that's one great looking staggered frame. looks like you got some above-average lumber quality...


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## Dennis Erskine

I don't know what you've calculated your viewing angles at; but, the rear seats are too close to the rear wall.


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## dc_pilgrim

Thanks for the pictures (esp. the staggered stud). I appreciate that you are including your material costs. Its pretty helpful.


What aspect ratio are you going for on the screen? Is that an outline of the planned screen you've taped on the wall?


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## lehrens

I don't know if you live in a flood area but i am now converting a garge into a home theater and this weekend Hurricane Katrina flooded the area so bad that my garage was completely flooded; 6" of water through garage. My area has never flooded this bad. You may want to consider this when buiding. I am going to float the floor higher and try to seal of the garage door form future floods.


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## SmX

Thanks For all the Replies.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know what you've calculated your viewing angles at; but, the rear seats are too close to the rear wall.



Thanks for Chiming in Dennis, What do you recommend as far as the seating from rear walls with the Space I am Working with?


The Seating is not Set in Stone Yet. The drawing is to size but scaled down. My First Mission is to accomplish a Sound Room. Then when it's time to Build the Platforms I will make any adjustments Necessary for seating. That Drawing is just for Show here.



> Quote:
> In your diagram, it looks like you have two columns on the other walls in between the screen and front row of seats. Any reason those are offset and not across from each other? Also, I assume the boxed area in the back corner of the room is for the rack? Also, how are you going to cool the rack and the room?



The Columns in that drawing are not lined up, but they are suppose to be. I just did that drawing real quick to Show the layout for those that wanted to see it. I will be seeking more advice on column placement once the framing is constructed and tied together.


The Box in the top back is the equipment Rack. It will be A/C as well as the room. My plan was to run a/c through the soffits unless someone recommends otherwise.



> Quote:
> that's one great looking staggered frame. looks like you got some above-average lumber quality...



Suprisingly the wood was pretty good. I just did a build that almost every piece of lumber was twisted to a 45 - 90 degree twist which was bought from Home Depot. Had To use Pliers on almost every peice due to the customer not wanting to return it.


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lehrens* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if you live in a flood area but i am now converting a garge into a home theater and this weekend Hurricane Katrina flooded the area so bad that my garage was completely flooded; 6" of water through garage. My area has never flooded this bad. You may want to consider this when buiding. I am going to float the floor higher and try to seal of the garage door form future floods.



Actually my home is pitched pretty high from the Street level and my street is pitched downhill pretty well. With all the rain we been getting, there has been no chance of any flooding here on my street (Thank God). Even with all the past hurricane seasons and rain there was no issues. But That is one excellent point.


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## SmX

Well today I ordered the rest of the supplies to complete the Walls, Platform & Stage excluding electrical which will be delivered on Wednesday.


What I ordered was

60 - 5/8"s 4' x 8' Sheetrock for Double Layered Sheetrock.

16 - 5/8"s 4' x 8' Plywood For Stage and Platform

1,000 lb.s of Pavers Sand to fill Stage

1,000 SQF of R-19 Insulation for Walls, Ceiling, and Platform

24 Tubes of Silicone to seal the room

1 Roll of Roofing Felt to use between Layers of Plywood on Stage and Platform

and a few other misc. things


Total on all this $1,943.75


Also picked up other random Supplies Like Framing Nails for my Gun and Red Head Anchor Bolts to Bolt walls into the Floor and concrete walls.


Total on That $100.00


Also ordered the Fiber Optic Cables and Light Boxes and Various electronics needed to do the Starfield Ceiling and random Shooting Stars. Total Coverage area for starfield was 12' x 15' or 180 sqare feet.


Total Cost for fiber optic Starfield ceiling was $1,250.00


Next, I am waiting on a call back from Ted White to get my Green Glue Order on. Based on 100% coverage and my Total Square Footage I will need about 5 Cases and I am hoping to get a quantity discount.


Based on the List Pricing on their Site, It would be $887.40 for 5 Cases of Green Glue.


Lets See what happens. I will keep you updated.

*Total Spent on Supplies to Date $3,853.75*


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## Rop

Hi Ruben,


Keep the detailed info coming! I'm in the design stages of my theater and am soaking it all up!


Do you have a link or more info about the star-field ceiling? I really like that idea.


-Rob-


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> Keep the detailed info coming! I'm in the design stages of my theater and am soaking it all up!
> 
> 
> Do you have a link or more info about the star-field ceiling? I really like that idea.
> 
> 
> -Rob-



No Problemo, I wanna try to help people like everyone has helped me. I am learning something new everyday as well.


The best place I found for the Fiber optic stuff was http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Ceiling.htm 

they seemed to have the best Prices and were very helpful over the phone. I should receive all my fiber optic stuff by this Friday. They don't sell kits like some places do, they sell you all the materials needed to DIY and it saves you allot of money.


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## SmX

Today, I decided to go all out and do RSIC-1 Clips and Channel Hats on the Walls and Ceilings after reading some recent posts in here. My feelings in the beginning were mixed on wether I should do it with RSIC and Green Glue or Stagger Studded Walls with Green Glue.


Now since all the walls are constructed with Stagger Studs, I will add the clips and then Green glue between the 2 5/8"s drywall. Even though a standard studded 2" x 4" wall is fine with RSIC-1 Clips, I would hope this would give me just as good, if not a better room due to the extra cavity space within the wall.


Now to Order those RSIC-1 Clips.


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What aspect ratio are you going for on the screen? Is that an outline of the planned screen you've taped on the wall?



Yes that was the out Line on the wall.

16:9 Micro Perf Screen is what we are Doing here.


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## BFauska

Sounds like a great project. I love your detailed posts, construction costs are not often shared and it is great to see it.


It may be too late, and I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not, but, I was under the impression that doing two layers of DIFFERENT thickness drywall was ideal. I figured that it was so that each layer would have a different resonant frequency and fight each other rather than work together to transmit sound, or something like that. I also thought that was the case for platform floors too. Like I said I don't really KNOW, I was just wondering if that was the case or if it doesn't really make too much difference. Even if it does matter, I am sure with your extensive use of other treatments you will have a well isolated room.


Keep up the great work and posts,


Brian


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## bpape

Good luck Sandman. I was thinking the same thing about the lumber. Thats the straightest pile of wood I've seen in a long time.


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## stealthboy

Just curious, but why are you getting rid of your garage? Do you not plan to ever sell your house?


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFauska* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like a great project. I love your detailed posts, construction costs are not often shared and it is great to see it.
> 
> 
> It may be too late, and I don't know if it actually makes a difference or not, but, I was under the impression that doing two layers of DIFFERENT thickness drywall was ideal. I figured that it was so that each layer would have a different resonant frequency and fight each other rather than work together to transmit sound, or something like that. I also thought that was the case for platform floors too. Like I said I don't really KNOW, I was just wondering if that was the case or if it doesn't really make too much difference. Even if it does matter, I am sure with your extensive use of other treatments you will have a well isolated room.
> 
> 
> Keep up the great work and posts,
> 
> 
> Brian



Green Glue eliminates the need of using 1/2" with 5/8"s. Therefor it is better to have more Mass. The Green Glue Dampens the Wall so Resonace isn't a problem.


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stealthboy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just curious, but why are you getting rid of your garage? Do you not plan to ever sell your house?



We have not used our garage for over 3 years besides storing Junk. The Garage was the Best place for us to do a theater without interfering with the rest of the home. We are in FL and there are no basements in FL like most other states.


If I sell the Home (which I have no intentions to within the next 10 years), the Buyer has the Option of keeping the Theater and losing the garage or Losing the Theater and getting the garage back (which we will Demolition it for them).


The Theather is Built as a room within a room Design, meaning, It can be demolitioned without effecting the Garage Walls, Ceiling and Floor besides a few 1/2" holes drilled into the Walls and Floor which can be filled and painted. The Garage door will remain in place and the Top tracks and Motorized Garage door opener will be removed.


Yeah, about $6,000.00 in building Materials will be trashed if it gets torn down, but the price of having our own dedictated theater...Priceless.


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## SmX

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions...


I WAS going to add RSIC-1 Clips to the Walls and Ceiling but after talking to a Few Good people, they think adding RSIC-1 Clips to a Stagger Studded wall is way over kill.


So I just ordered My 5 cases of Green Glue from Ted White and called It a Day.


By the way, Ted White is a Great Guy to talk to, he Suggests if anyone has any questions about Home Theater Construction to call him.


Also, he offers a discount on the Green Glue to AVS forum Members.


I ended up Saving $87.40 on the Green Glue. So the 5 Cases of Green Glue cost me $800.00 plus shipping.

*Total Spent on Supplies to Date $4,688.75*


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## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> Green Glue eliminates the need of using 1/2" with 5/8"s.



Well, I haven't done the testing with Green Glue; but, back many years ago with a similar type of CLD material, we found that at extreme low frequencies, the damping material performed better if the backing (layer furthest from the sound) was rigid and the layer closest to the sound was more flexible. (We could test below 31.5Hz).


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## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman: looks like you are off to a good start.


One thing I noticed is 1000 lbs of sand. I hope you ordered it in plastic bags so that while it's sitting around it won't have the opportunity to get wet. Also just a guess I don't think you'll have nearly enough for that stage as drawn.



Another item, I'm not sure what you are planning on under the base plates. At a minimum I would get some of that foam on a roll. That would help fill in any voids, cut down any rattling and help keep those untreated bottom plates a little dryer.


Also plan on some plastic sheeting to use in the stage construction to "wrap the sand" In Fl a sand filled stage that might get a little damp is like an "All you can eat buffet" for your 6 legged friends. You may want to think about treated lumber.


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman: looks like you are off to a good start.
> 
> 
> One thing I noticed is 1000 lbs of sand. I hope you ordered it in plastic bags so that while it's sitting around it won't have the opportunity to get wet. Also just a guess I don't think you'll have nearly enough for that stage as drawn.
> 
> 
> 
> Another item, I'm not sure what you are planning on under the base plates. At a minimum I would get some of that foam on a roll. That would help fill in any voids, cut down any rattling and help keep those untreated bottom plates a little dryer.
> 
> 
> Also plan on some plastic sheeting to use in the stage construction to "wrap the sand" In Fl a sand filled stage that might get a little damp is like an "All you can eat buffet" for your 6 legged friends. You may want to think about treated lumber.



Thanks for all the great suggestions!


Yes, the sand is Bagged and will be stored indoors once it arrives tomorrow. If I need more, Home Depot & Lowes is only 2 blocks away from my house (Lucky me)










We are using #30 Roofing Felt/Tar on all the Base Plates and all the Plates that connect to Cement walls and Probably in between the connecting framed walls.. I know quite a few people used this with great results. But I am interested in what you have mentioned. Can you post a link on exactly what your talking about?


We were going to line the Stage with a 3 - 4 mill plastic to hold the Sand. I have not gotten that far into the project yet so I was going to cross that bridge when I get to it.


Thanks

Ruben


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I haven't done the testing with Green Glue; but, back many years ago with a similar type of CLD material, we found that at extreme low frequencies, the damping material performed better if the backing (layer furthest from the sound) was rigid and the layer closest to the sound was more flexible. (We could test below 31.5Hz).



According to Ted White, he Said that this was an unproven myth from back many years ago. He highly recommended 2 5/8"s with Green Glue in between and that is what I guess I will stick to.


I also asked Brian Ravnaas about using 1/2" and 5/8"s and his responce was...


"5/8" + 5/8" is preferable


This theory that 1/2" + 5/8" is better because the different thicknesses "stop different frequencies" is like 40 years old and never worked to begin with, really.


so, 5/8" + 5/8", but the other way won't hurt things much at all."


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good luck Sandman. I was thinking the same thing about the lumber. Thats the straightest pile of wood I've seen in a long time.



I actually Hand picked all the Lumber and made sure it was straight. I ended up only having 2 slightly bent pieces. Even the 16 Footers were pretty damn straight.


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## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman


The insulation I'm referring to is from HD. Around here one of the uses is to put it under the sill plate (a PT 2x6 or8 laid flat side down) that sits on top of the poured concrete walls used for BASEMENTS (Ah, the joys of a low water table).


I cut strips and stapled to the edges of the boards I used for my riser and it did a great job of filling in voids and making the structure sit firmly on the concrete. I think it would work great for your walls.


heres a picture:


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## BIGmouthinDC

Found a link

http://www.owenscorning.com/around/i.../foamsealr.asp


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## Brian Ravnaas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to Ted White, he Said that this was an unproven myth from back many years ago. He highly recommended 2 5/8"s with Green Glue in between and that is what I guess I will stick to.
> 
> 
> I also asked Brian Ravnaas about using 1/2" and 5/8"s and his responce was...
> 
> 
> "5/8" + 5/8" is preferable
> 
> 
> This theory that 1/2" + 5/8" is better because the different thicknesses "stop different frequencies" is like 40 years old and never worked to begin with, really.
> 
> 
> so, 5/8" + 5/8", but the other way won't hurt things much at all."



Perhaps i could offer a little clarification, I don't know what Ted said, but:


Dennis was one of the first people on the planet to really know anything about CLD with respect to sound isolation. Long before Audio Alloy even knew what Green Glue could do, Dennis had an idea.


CLD materials vary, and they exhibit different shear properties, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that DE's observations of the materials he worked with are anything but spot-on. However, with Green Glue the use of different thicknesses of drywall isn't an inherent advantage.


My recommendation to you was for an RSIC ceiling. As i stated, the heavier wall will perform better at low frequencies. If one of you opted for 1/2" + 5/8", don't panic, the difference won't be huge.


I would politely ask that my comments not be used to state that any opposing philosophy was wrong, that wasn't their intent, but I stand by my recommendation of double 5/8" for an RSIC ceiling due to mass and it's effect on decoupled walls.


Brian


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## Brian Ravnaas

too add some more perspective to my comments:


using all 5/8" drywall on a ceiling/floor structure assumed to have 2x10 joists and 3/4" plywood sub-floor, with RSIC clips for a net cavity depth of 9.5" + 1.625" = 11.125"



using double 5/8" drywall would give a predicted (including the stiffness of the clips, per data collected at Audio Alloys labs and Orfield labs) mass-spring resonance frequency of ~31hz. that assumes the cavity has insulation.


Moving to 5/8" + 1/2" drywall would give ~32.5hz...


this is worth maybe 1dB for lowering of teh MSM and mass.


my point: don't panic. the selection of either 5/8" + 1/2" or 5/8" + 5/8" will yield good results. I do recommend the 5/8" + 5/8" for an RSIC ceiling, i would hardly put up a big fight if someone else recommended 5/8" + 1/2".











to contrast this, with resilient channel on the ceiling, the mass-spring resonance should fall nearly 2/3 of an octave higher in the mid to high 40's. That should be worth MANY dB due to higher frequency of effective decoupling.


i took the liberty, recently, of collecting some 3rd party data to demonstrate this superiority of the RSIC clip relative to RC. and i even had the lab manager validate that the RC in question was 25 gauge metal. Lord knows how wide the margin would get with off-spec channel....


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## s-one

Nice work so far! Good luck on your venture.


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## SmX

Thanks!


Well Today the Dry Wall, Insulation and Lumber Arrived.





















Thanks to BIGmouthinDC I went to Loews and found the Foam on a Roll. I was suprised that 2 Home Depots I went to didn't have it. So I got it in 5.5 in Wide to do the Walls and Floors where the Stagger Studded Framing attaches to the Concrete. I was originally going to use a #30 Roofing felt but this foam on a roll serves much better.





























This is the Foam on the Wall.











We are now joinging the Framed walls together and bolting them to the Floors.


The framed Walls should be all up tonight.


Stay Tuned, I will Post some pictures once the framing is done.


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## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben you guys are flying! Those anchors are pretty serious looking. I'd say your structure is going to get a hurricane/earthquake certification


Glad the foam on a roll is working.


Quick question, how are you going to attach drywall to the backs of the walls if you put the frames up first. I can see that you have access to the two long walls (well at least one if you can't raise the door with the frame in place) but what about the short walls against the garage side walls?


Keep us monday morning quarterbacks posted on the progress and we'll be happy to offer suggestions.


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## SmX

Thanks,


Well after consulting with Ted White, He informed me not to sheetrock the outer walls that go against cement and to leave space in between the Concrete wall and wood Framing with R-19 insulation inside and just double 5/8's with GG in between on the inside of Theater.


The Wall going against the garage door is going to be the fun part. We will try to double 5/8's the outside and mud It and lift the wall into place like any other big wall. Or, put it up in 3 sections (2 8 foot sections and 1 4 foot Section). Then seal it from inside the wall (the brown Side instead of the white side).


We were also thinking about having the wall Partially leaning upwards (like top half of wall resting on stands while the bottom half is almost in position on the floor. Then apply the first layer of Drywall, Mud it then the Second layer of drywall and mud again (Stagger Drywall of course). Then after that walk the wall the rest of the way up. I may decide to do the 2 layers and rock fast and get it up before it drys, to avoid any cracking in the seams while adjusting it.


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## flrnlam

A quick glance at your room plans, as I've been in this business doing custom theaters for some time now, as well as an acoustical engineer, say's that you really have a couple of issues that will affect ultimate performance of your theater acoustically.

ONe is that, where's all the excess bass energy going? You'll really need some bass traps with limited absorption in that room, to help the "Q" of the room, from being to bass heavy and slow. I recommend accessing the space above the theater for this (do some research on this). Othewise, this will be a problem with high fidelity ultimately.

Smaller spaces don't absorb enough bass, while larger spaces absorb more bass.

Yes, you can still "EQ" things with speaker and seating, use and EQ, etc, to get flattest response possible from listening positions. STill, reverberation will be long in the bass if you can't get rid of the excess energy there.

Another thing is double drywall inside and out. I recommend double drywall on the outside only! Why?...it's going to be to "hard" sounding if you make the wall stiffer, which also hurts your "reverb" in the room in the bass....just a thought.

Also, the low ceiling in that room (8.5) will dictate etither more "controlled focus" design speakers up front, to limit ceiling interaction between you and the speakers in that setup. Otherwise, back-row listeners will get the worst of it in this respect.

Using typical "tweeter over mid/bass driver" designs, won't help you here, maybe benefited by "first order crossover" designs however. STill, THX, Dappolito's, Horn's, Planner/electrostat's, and other similar will help greatly!

Otherwise, plan on doing some acoustics on the ceiling! I suggest looking at what PMI makes in there "cine-pannels"??? I think that's what

they call em. Anyway, unless you do your own acoustics, these pannels look great, and work fantastic!...just a though. Also, bass traps in all the corners, treating all corner reflection points helps.

Also, I recommend Russ Hershelmann's theater seating/speaker layout scheme for you. That means "no center seat", as that's the worst in the room!!!! (lot's of peaks and dips in the response...not good!).

As things look now, your seating spots are difficult acoustic spots It appears. Also, speaker locations should correspond and compliment the seating possitions.

Do some research???...

Also, doing a 140" diag in that size room? I recommend against.

Even if you're using a 1920x1080 rez, progressive, it's still better smaller around 100-120" max! I think you'll run into seeing more than you want as far as pixles, scan lines, low rez, whatever. That's just me however.

WE all want a big pic, but BALANCE is critical with your viewing distance. I prefer quality over quantity myself. But whatever floats your boat...it's all groovy, you know?

Anyway, your sitting at less than 1x's the diagonal, which most pro's would shun, even with higher rez. To each his own however.

Back to sound, you might want to do some research on speaker placment before you cement things in. Otherwise, plan on some serious "EQ'ing"! Still, the foundation is seating and speaker location, locaiton, location! Don't get that right, and you'll never have serious sound.

Good luck...looks fun


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## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flrnlam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ONe is that, where's all the excess bass energy going? You'll really need some bass traps with limited absorption in that room, to help the "Q" of the room, from being to bass heavy and slow. I recommend accessing the space above the theater for this (do some research on this). Othewise, this will be a problem with high fidelity ultimately.
> 
> Smaller spaces don't absorb enough bass, while larger spaces absorb more bass.
> 
> Yes, you can still "EQ" things with speaker and seating, use and EQ, etc, to get flattest response possible from listening positions. STill, reverberation will be long in the bass if you can't get rid of the excess energy there.
> 
> Another thing is double drywall inside and out. I recommend double drywall on the outside only! Why?...it's going to be to "hard" sounding if you make the wall stiffer, which also hurts your "reverb" in the room in the bass....just a thought.
> 
> Also, the low ceiling in that room (8.5) will dictate etither more "controlled focus" design speakers up front, to limit ceiling interaction between you and the speakers in that setup. Otherwise, back-row listeners will get the worst of it in this respect.
> 
> Using typical "tweeter over mid/bass driver" designs, won't help you here, maybe benefited by "first order crossover" designs however. STill, THX, Dappolito's, Horn's, Planner/electrostat's, and other similar will help greatly!
> 
> Otherwise, plan on doing some acoustics on the ceiling! I suggest looking at what PMI makes in there "cine-pannels"??? I think that's what
> 
> they call em. Anyway, unless you do your own acoustics, these pannels look great, and work fantastic!...just a though. Also, bass traps in all the corners, treating all corner reflection points helps.
> 
> Also, I recommend Russ Hershelmann's theater seating/speaker layout scheme for you. That means "no center seat", as that's the worst in the room!!!! (lot's of peaks and dips in the response...not good!).
> 
> As things look now, your seating spots are difficult acoustic spots It appears. Also, speaker locations should correspond and compliment the seating possitions.
> 
> Do some research???...
> 
> Also, doing a 140" diag in that size room? I recommend against.
> 
> Even if you're using a 1920x1080 rez, progressive, it's still better smaller around 100-120" max! I think you'll run into seeing more than you want as far as pixles, scan lines, low rez, whatever. That's just me however.
> 
> WE all want a big pic, but BALANCE is critical with your viewing distance. I prefer quality over quantity myself. But whatever floats your boat...it's all groovy, you know?
> 
> Anyway, your sitting at less than 1x's the diagonal, which most pro's would shun, even with higher rez. To each his own however.
> 
> Back to sound, you might want to do some research on speaker placment before you cement things in. Otherwise, plan on some serious "EQ'ing"! Still, the foundation is seating and speaker location, locaiton, location! Don't get that right, and you'll never have serious sound.
> 
> Good luck...looks fun



Thanks for your thoughts.


Were you thinking I was thinking once I finish drywalling the room it would be all done? I hope not. Just because my quick drawing didn't indicate Room treatments doesn't mean I'm not treating the room. My Drawing just shows the construction layout without the the Soffits.


There will be plenty of spots to incorporate Bass Traps ie. behind the Screen wall, Soffits or Columns. I will be treating the whole room. For the immediate time being, I am just getting the heavy work done with the space I have using the suggestions of my fellow pro Audio/Home Theater people here at AVS and locally. I believe that when the room is done, it should be air tight and contain sound very well. Then once thats accomplished, then It will come time to treat the Room accoustically. My first concern is containing the sound within the room without any leakage.


I have really no space above to treat the ceiling with Bass traps, and I dont care to either. I will seek furter advice on this when I get the walls fully constructed.


As far as a System, I am using a Martin Logan System containing Odyssey's for the Fronts, Aeons for the Rears, Scripts for the Side Fills and The Theater for the Center.

The Sub is a 18" Velodyne HGS-18. The Receiver is a B&K AVR 507 with B&K 200.1 Monoblocks.


As far as Screen Size, Yes I am Doing it Big. It Doesn't mean I have to have that big of a picture if it proves to be bad (Thank god for Zoom and Masking). But The Optoma H79 projector with a 10 foot screen and seating at 10 feet away has to be much better than our last Eiki Powerhouse One LCD Projector that we Sat 10 feet away from with a 14 Foot Screen shot on a white painted wall. I rather have a Big screen now, so in the future if I relocate, I can perhaps have a bigger room for the screen.


Money is really no object for me to complete this the right way. I will seek services of an audio tech to analyze the room once the initial concept is done and plenty of them are right here in Boca Raton. I will not begin major accoustic treatments until the room construction is completed and analyzed professioinally.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Rubin, I've got the 79 if you have any questions.


Been thinking about that wall against the garage door. One thing that I would investigate is if there was any way possible to make the door removable from the outside for construction purposes and for future access if you need to do some maintenance on the door either due to deteriation or careless parking by a visitor eager to see the theater.


I know on my wood doors all the bolts holding it in place are tightened from the inside but if I reversed the bolts maybe I could remove a panel from the outside. If you could modify the top panel mounting so that you could remove it from the outside then you could reach in and unbolt the other panels. Maybe leave the top panel held in place only by the hinges to the panel below and some latches at the very top secured to the door frame. Just thinking out loud.



All said, I don't have a clue what kind of door you have but it's worth thinking about now before it's too late.


If you could do your double rock through the open door that would save a lot of hassle.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rubin, I've got the 79 if you have any questions.
> 
> 
> Been thinking about that wall against the garage door. One thing that I would investigate is if there was any way possible to make the door removable from the outside for construction purposes and for future access if you need to do some maintenance on the door either due to deteriation or careless parking by a visitor eager to see the theater.
> 
> 
> I know on my wood doors all the bolts holding it in place are tightened from the inside but if I reversed the bolts maybe I could remove a panel from the outside. If you could modify the top panel mounting so that you could remove it from the outside then you could reach in and unbolt the other panels. Maybe leave the top panel held in place only by the hinges to the panel below and some latches at the very top secured to the door frame. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> 
> 
> All said, I don't have a clue what kind of door you have but it's worth thinking about now before it's too late.
> 
> 
> If you could do your double rock through the open door that would save a lot of hassle.



Thanks for those ideas. I am going to look further into that. The garage door is Metal.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Had some time to think about that door as I drove around to a couple of different carpet stores today in search of the perfect carpet for my HT.


what if you take everything out, all the tracks


Then put a 1x1 piece of trim moulding around the perimeter of the inner part of the opening. Lay the first section down tight to the ground (assuming you have a good seal at the bottom. At the edges screw through the 1x1 with stainless steel screws holding the section in place. Move up and do each section one at a time, If there are screw on hinges use them to secure section to section if not invent something else.


----------



## SmX

Man, you read my mind. I was thinking the same Idea. Going to look at it now.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I finally noticed that you actually had some pics of the door (hidden behind your piles of goodies)


I think you'll need to something with the venting at the bottom

I also think the door would benefit from some material glued to the back to reduce sound transfer (like compressed fiberglass panels glued to the back)


----------



## flrnlam

Sandman, keep this in mind...

I'm not talking about some bass trap cyliners stuck in a corner here and there! I'm talking about real bass traps that actually do something to your overall reverb and bass response in the room!!!....SERIOUS BASS TRAP ABSORPTION.

This is one of the most overlooked in home theater construction, especially by enthusiests.

Bass waves are big and long(ehem...). They need serios space to absorb...thus the attic/ceiling recommendation.

Anyway, if it's workable, I'd work it into the "build", definitely!

Anyway, these all add up to better and better sound, even dubbing studio quality reproduction in response.

Never the less, at the very least you might strongly consider my seating/speaker placement suggestions as a foundation. Even response and flat response all around is a key core fundamental. It all adds up remember, just like gourmet cooking...only more lasting and worth while if you ask me. The difference between what everyone else ends up with , and world class!

Cheers


----------



## SmX

The rear platform is a huge cavity filled with insulation. How about Drilling Holes or Making Slots in the front of the Platform/Riser to absorb the Bass?


A few people have done this in the past, do you know anything about that?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

If anyone here has used their Platform for a large Basstrap, let me know.


----------



## SmX

I am also looking to hire someone in the South Florida Area to come analyze my room. If anyone can recommend someone, please let me know.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## 68sting

Hello Sandmanx


Great thread keep the info coming. I have a construction question for you.

If you don't drywall the back of your walls do you still need the staggered walls? I was thinking you could just build a standard wall and put it a couple inches a way from the concrete and have the same effect. I'm going to be in a similair situation and just want to know if either way would work.


Also nice to see another Martin Logan theater. I have all ML's and an 18" Vely. as well.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *68sting* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello Sandmanx
> 
> 
> Great thread keep the info coming. I have a construction question for you.
> 
> If you don't drywall the back of your walls do you still need the staggered walls? I was thinking you could just build a standard wall and put it a couple inches a way from the concrete and have the same effect. I'm going to be in a similair situation and just want to know if either way would work.
> 
> 
> Also nice to see another Martin Logan theater. I have all ML's and an 18" Vely. as well.



No it was not necessary to do a Stagger Studded wall against a concrete wall if your leaving the back of the wall open. We just happened to construct all our walls first before finding out we didn't have to seal the back side thats against the concrete.


We left a 1" gap between the framed wall and the concrete.


The purpose of a Stagger Studded wall is to minimize the transfer of sound through the drywall by making sure the drywall on both sides does not connect to the same verticle stud. It also increases the dept of your cavity too, to help trap sound.


So a 2" x 4" standard wall would of worked fine too if its running against a concrete wall with a gap between the Framing studs and concrete wall. But also, the deeper the cavity, the better.


----------



## SmX

Just an update, all the Framing is pretty much done just some minor framing members that need to be added to the equpment rack. The A/C is supply is installed.


The Green Glue came in and the Fiber Optics came in for the Star Field Ceiling. We are insulating the room now with the R-19 and running the Conduits for the Projector, Sheet Rock will go up later today.


To keep the room sealed as much as possible, We will not be cutting any holes in the Sheet Rock for outlets or any lighting. All Outlets and Lighting will all be installed in the Soffits and Columns. The Outlets for the Equipment Rack will be installed inside the rack closet outside the wall. The outlets for the Sub and Speakers Behind the Screen wall will be outside the wall as well.


Here is the Framed Room. Its a bit messy cause I wanted to get these flicks before the Insulation goes up.






































We added a emergency exit window so the room has 2 exits in case of a fire. That will be a removable section of the wall that will be sealed with a light silicone.











This is the equipment rack we still need to finish the framing on it. You see the HVAC Supply in it.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Great work you are really making fast progress. As has been mentioned before that's the best looking lumber I've ever seen used for framing. Those "hand picked"ceiling joists almost look like "furniture" grade. I imagine the next customer got stuck with the crap I usually end up with.


I see that the drywall is in place on the outside of the garage door wall. What did you end up doing about the garage door? and keep the pictures coming.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see that the drywall is in place on the outside of the garage door wall. What did you end up doing about the garage door? and keep the pictures coming.



Thanks Man,


That wall was a headache. First we Drywalled the 16 foot wall laying down with studs under it to hold one side up a bit, but once it got double drywalled it was absolutely way to heavy to raise without a lift or much more men.


So we ended up cutting it into 2 even 8 foot sections and then were able to get them in place. Once all 3 walls were leveled and lined up we bolted them down to the floors then tied them together with a 16 footer at top. We Siliconed thoroughly between the joined walls and a Layer of drywall is going in between the 2 inside studs where the wall joins on the inside.


As for the Garage Door, we left the Metal one up as is and I just Secured the whole door so it doesn't rattle. On the Outside of the Garage Door we wil be putting up a dummy solid wood Garage Door with Insulation in between the Metal Door and the New Wood Door that will be held in place with Studs.


Today We have to draw out all the Studs and star hole positions on the 10 Sheets of sheet rock that will be the Top layer for the Ceiling. We are doing this so that none of the fibers for the Star Ceiling end up under a joist or get a screw through them.


----------



## SmX

Today I also ordered my Chairs. Berkline just came out with a New Chair the 075 which we actually love. They are even a little wider than the 090's and we love the modern look of them. Our theater color combination is going to be Black and Red. So I used a picture of the Chair that was in other colors and changed the Colors in Photoshop.


The red we will be getting will be a brighter red than whats in the picture below. The chair will be a Red Leather with a Black Microfabric combination. The chairs will come with Buttkickers installed as well.


I got them from Leather-Direct which gave me the absolute best price I could find online.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Those seats look like they belong in a $200,000 sports car. I used Leatherdirect myself and was quite surprised when the chairs arrived from the factory in 21 days. They came on a freight truck in these HUGE boxes. The driver actually helped me unpack my 6 and carry them inside and would not take a tip. He would take a cold soda and bottle of water. Let's hope you have the same level of service. You get a phone call from the freight company and then they want to come the next day if possible.


I think I spent about 2 hours cutting up those boxes into sizes small enough for the curbside pick-up. They also come with some pretty durable foam bag packaging which I saved and have used for a number of projects and protection during construction. It's kind of like big bags made with that foam on a roll stuff.


----------



## suffolk112000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Today I also ordered my Chairs. Berkline just came out with a New Chair the 075 which we actually love. They are even a little wider than the 090's and we love the modern look of them. Our theater color combination is going to be Black and Red. So I used a picture of the Chair that was in other colors and changed the Colors in Photoshop.
> 
> 
> The red we will be getting will be a brighter red than whats in the picture below. The chair will be a Red Leather with a Black Microfabric combination. The chairs will come with Buttkickers installed as well.
> 
> 
> I got them from Leather-Direct which gave me the absolute best price I could find online.




Man, those chairs are nice looking!!

I wish I had them instead of my 090's.










Looking good, keep it up.


Craig


----------



## SmX

Updates,

First Layer of Dry wall is up.

We raised the Ceiling to 9' By eliminating the Ceiling Joists and attaching 3 layers of 5/8"s Dry Wall with Green Glue between each Layer to the Existing Ceiling which has a 24" insulated cavity between the Garage Ceiling and the Floor boards above.


I spoke to a few People and they were not really sure on what would be Better Based on my Situation. It was a Toss up between RSIC Clips with Double 5/8's and GG vs 3 Layers of 5/8"s with 2 Layers of GG at 100% Coverage on each Layer. So I did the 3 Layers.


Here is Some Shots of Green Glue applied to a Layer.




















I currently Got some incredible Renders of the Room from Ryan Kramer being worked on and BPape is Setting up the preliminary Treatments for the Room.


Stay Tuned..


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Are you saying that you took out all those "handpicked" good looking ceiling joists and just put 3 layers over top of the one existing layer of drywall?


If yes how did you extend your wall framing up to the ceiling? just curious.


----------



## bpape

There was a lot of conversation with myself and Brian R. about how to deal with the ceiling. He wanted to move it up to 9' for a more spacious feel.


The options were:


1. Rip off the existing drywall and put up RSIC and hat channel and double DW with GG.


2. Go RSIC and hat under the existing DW - dismissed early on.


3. Go 3 layers of DW with GG in between the layers.


The 3 layers were determined to be probably a wash with option 1 performance wise for less cost.


My intial recommendation was to pull the drywall, use DC-04's to attach the walls to the joists above, and then do RSIC, 2 layers, and GG for the ceiling. This would be the max for isolation purposes. Cost became an issue and Brian said either method would yield good performace so he decided to just do 3 layers on the ceiling.


His main concern is keeping sound from getting to the outside world. Above him are 2 guest rooms that are rarely used.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sounds good. Still curious about how he dealt with the walls which were a foot short?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds good. Still curious about how he dealt with the walls which were a foot short?



Yep, We pulled those Joists down.


We just Framed out Short Walls to run from the Top of the Existing walls to the Garage Ceiling. So the short walls were like 20' x 9" They got liquid Nailed and Hard Nailed to the Existing 100" Tall Wall.


We Have a 24" Insulated Cavity, so It should be Fine.


----------



## jerrodshook

Sandman,


Looks good, man you're making some progress! Mine is just crawling along.....


----------



## SmX

So we Had to order some More Green Glue. Another 2 Cases to complete the Room.

So another $320.00 plus Shipping for that.


Also ended up picking up 18 More Sheets of 5/8"s Drywall to finish the Room, which was another $200.00.


Seats got ordered, The Bill was $4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.


Our cleaning Lady's Husband happens to do Taping and Mudding for a living and Said he will Do the whole Room for $75.00. I hate Taping / mudding so that was good news for me.


More to come


----------



## bpape

Would he like to come do some work for me!? That's DIRT cheap.


----------



## reaper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently Got some incredible Renders of the Room from Ryan Kramer being worked on



Cool. Care to share the renders with the forum? I'd like to see the work of another 3d modeler. I'm sure he'll embarass my efforts.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Are you sure about $75.


I think in the translation he said "$75 a sheet". She heard $75 for that Sheet.


just kidding but I really think you should check man. The going rate around here is $ 200-250 per day for skilled (residency not a requirement) drywall finishing. And I don't see how he can do your job in less than 4 half day sessions with drying time in between.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you sure about $75.
> 
> 
> I think in the translation he said "$75 a sheet". She heard $75 for that Sheet.
> 
> 
> just kidding but I really think you should check man. The going rate around here is $ 200-250 per day for skilled (residency not a requirement) drywall finishing. And I don't see how he can do your job in less than 4 half day sessions with drying time in between.




Yeah Man, The Guy Said $75 to do the First Layer of Dry Wall with one Coat and Tape and Second Layer of Drywall with Tape and 2 Coats all for $75.00 plus a Bag or 2 of Fast Drying Compound which is like $8.00 a bag. This guy said it would take him one hour to do the first Layer and another Hour the following day to do the Second Layer.


His wife Cleans our home so I think he is doing it more as a favor. The Room is 20'-6" x 15' x 9' Ceiling. a little over 300 SQF.


For $75.00 I aint complaining







Saves me the big headache of doing the Ceiling as well.


----------



## SmX

Here are there renders I got so Far. What really blows me away about them is the Texture in the Chairs and surroundings.


They are still being finished up as far as Walls and Patterns and Lighting placement...


----------



## LydMekk

Wow! Great room SandmanX! I'm planning to rebuild my livingroom this winter and I'm going for the same wall config, 2x4" with insulation and a sandwich of 5/8 + soundboard + 5/8 sheetrock all glued together.


Will be a treat to follow your progress with the room and hopefully it will give me a few pointers too!


Btw. anybody: would it help the dampening properties of my room to add a 1" MDF board inside the room to the sandwich mentioned above ? Or will the MDF be too hard compared with the sheetrock surface, thinking of sound reflection etc. ?


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman those renderings are unbelievable. With that motivation I can see why you are still up at 4am.


----------



## reaper

Would you forgive some questions and comments on the renders? I don't mean to distract from your thread.


Thanks for sharing the renderings. I must admit that some of the effects are very nice. I think I could get closer to them if I use an external renderer called yafray with blender. But I need to upgrade my PC to do that.


The first render looks quite good. He did an excellent job of custom modelling the chairs you plan to use. You should appreciate that. I am sure some work was involved there.


In the second one down, I am thourougly confused by the door. It kind of looks like it is encased in water. Is that just a WIP that will be changed or is that somehow an effect you are aiming for in the actual theater? Looks like he could improve the texture on the top of the columns as well in this image.


The 3rd and 5th images show some closeups of the textures on the chairs. It looks like he applied a nor map to the model to and maybe had the depth a little much. I've never seen a chair that looks like that.


I understand these are a WIP and the final products will probably kick butt. Just some questions and comments from the peanut gallery and another 3d modeller. Great work, it's always fun to see someone else's efforts.


reap


----------



## reaper

Do you know what software is being used? It looks like 3ds.


----------



## SmX

Taping and Mudding of the First Layer begins Today.


Pictures to Follow.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reaper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you know what software is being used? It looks like 3ds.



Hey Reaper, Ryan Kramer is me. 


I'm still working on the renders, these are works in progress as we go.


The program is still Cinema 4D for me, one day I might change. 


The door has a bump map on it set to high with a transparency that's too severe. Don't worry, it's been fixed since then.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reaper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The first render looks quite good. He did an excellent job of custom modelling the chairs you plan to use. You should appreciate that. I am sure some work was involved there.



Awww, you DO know your stuff. Thanks for the nod.


Sandman and I are doing the back and forth game right now. I'm supposed to have final renders to him tonight. Any other questions, just ask. ^_^


----------



## reaper

Hey, it's Chirpie! I could have sworn that his renders looked uncannily like your own theater models. Funny that I only know you by Chirpie










It's cool that we can discuss the models some. I assumed it was some high power theater designer that would have no time for it. Those equipment models on his rack look familiar as well. Pulled straight from your model?


You have to post the finals, guys, K? I am anxious to see your stage area and the updated textures on the chairs. nice job so far. I have some competition now.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reaper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, it's Chirpie! I could have sworn that his renders looked uncannily like your own theater models. Funny that I only know you by Chirpie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's cool that we can discuss the models some. I assumed it was some high power theater designer that would have no time for it. Those equipment models on his rack look familiar as well. Pulled straight from your model?



Nope, no higher power here. Yeah, my secret identiy is out. ^_^ Oh well.


The equipment rack is a slightly modified version of the one I did for my theater. The columns are from my theater model because sandman had expressed he liked the design. So we used that as a starting point. Everything else is built from scratch since the room is a different size. It's just easier to do it that way than go and select every shape, resizing them.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reaper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You have to post the finals, guys, K? I am anxious to see your stage area and the updated textures on the chairs. nice job so far. I have some competition now.



It's Sandman's rules, but I'm sure he will. ^_^


----------



## jrfuda

Wow! Sandman, awesome concept, progress, and generosity sharing so much info. this is the single best DIY theater construction thread I've seen so far.


I really think you can take - practically word for word - this thread and repackage it into a pdf manual (with the detail I'm sure you're going to add - based on your postings thus far - on the finishing of the project).


One day when I have a job that doesn't require me to move every 2-3 years, I hope I'll be posting about my theater construction!


Again, awesome post, awesome (future) theater!


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all the great comments!


Update:

The Gilford of Maine Fabric Arrived today. Thanks to The members here at AVS for letting me up on Fabricmate. I got the best price I could find of $12.00 a Yard and the standard Delivery was super Fast!!!











Here is the Track system by Fabricmate Used for Framing out the Panels that everyone was wondering about. Basically You cut your 45 - 46 degree angle cuts at the ends to make your frame. Liquid Nail it and Staple it to the Walls and put your 1 " 703 or whatever you use inside the frame for treatment and then use a pizza cutter to put the fabric into the gripping section. This holds the fabric very well and Saves you a Ton of Labor and Staples. They Do however Cost $2.90 a Foot if you buy under 200 feet and $2.50 a Foot if you buy 200 Feet and up. They come in 5 foot Lengths.


I will build a Dummy 12" x 12" Frame tonight to test it out.




















Drywall Updates:


The 3 Layer Ceiling Is Finished and top of the walls are Being Closed up as I type this. The Guy that is Doing the Taping and Mudding for $75.00 is also now helping put up the final Drywall. Not Bad.



























































More Pictures to Come...


----------



## SmX

The Taping Guy Has Some really Long Funny looking Legs









He should be a basketball Player.


----------



## SmX

Some New Renders. I just asked Ryan to make the Towers a little less wide and a couple little other changes before it is Perfect to me.


Now My Biggest Question with my 9 foot ceilings is, if I should go with a Coffered Ceiling like you see in the renders below or without? A coffered ceiling will hide the seams on the star Panels we are making, which are 4' x 4' Panels wrapped in Black GoM.


What do you guys think?


With the Coffered Ceiling...










Without the Coffered Ceiling...










Here are some more renders of the Room...


----------



## BFauska

1 vote for coffered ceiling

and


If your taking them


1 vote for grey carpet



Looks great either way, keep up the good work, I am sure you'll enjoy the heck out of your theater when you are done.


Later,

Brian


----------



## oldredtop

A coffered ceiling is an architectural design that tends to make the ceiling seem lower. That's why you normally only see it used on 10ft and higher ceilings. If you prefer that lower feel go coffered. I prefer a higher, more expansive "feel", especially with star lights, so I vote for non-coffered.


I also vote for the gray carpet.


Your whole design is stunning. It will be super no matter what you decide.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Patterned grey carpet (not monochrome). Reason red chairs on red carpet makes the chairs kind of "disappear" in the room. And those chairs have style you want them to be "in your face". If everything else is Monochrome. it helps to have some surface with some pattern. Also I'm putting black on my stage steps.


See attached pictures of trim detail for a different ceiling treatment interesting use of "pinstipes" (not mine but it has a high WAF factor)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...chmentid=38205 


Lastly I have the Kenroy "Leonardo" sconces shown in the renderings. After experimentation I discovered the following. They take candlelabra base bulbs. Don't just run out and get the standard clear pointed candelabra bulbs. I found that using the round GE reveal bulbs gives the best light in my blue/grey room. Also if you bend the bulb holders out to a position where the bulbs are the furthest away from the wall you get the best wall wash effect (less wall shadows).


----------



## SVonhof

I vote for either no coffered ceilings or smaller, thinner cross-sections so it doesn't come down from the ceiling as far.


Renders are great!


----------



## reaper




----------



## bpape

I like the coffer too but would agree that something a bit less massive would infringe less on the 'feel' of spaciousness.


Definitely grey carpet. make the curtains and chairs stand out.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like the coffer too but would agree that something a bit less massive would infringe less on the 'feel' of spaciousness.
> 
> 
> Definitely grey carpet. make the curtains and chairs stand out.





The Carpet is Suppose to be Black, but it looks grey in those renders for some reason.


----------



## mlaferriere

Hi sandman great work!! I was wondering what are the offsets for each stud in the wall is one side 16 Oc and the othe 16 Oc. Thanks for the info!!


Mark


----------



## KWhite

Definitely do the coffered ceiling, gives a entirely different and classier look to the room.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Carpet is Suppose to be Black, but it looks grey in those renders for some reason.



That's partly my fault in that I changed the levels on the renders a bit in Photoshop. It made them a little more grey than they should have appeared. ^_^;


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlaferriere* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi sandman great work!! I was wondering what are the offsets for each stud in the wall is one side 16 Oc and the othe 16 Oc. Thanks for the info!!
> 
> 
> Mark



Thanks, Yes the Studs or 16 on Center both Sides.


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Typical HT Rooms, unless your budget is unlimited, are comprised of a great amount of compromises. Taking into consideration the fact that you have a 9' ceiling I vote for the coffered ceiling, maybe you could do as Scott had mentioned and reduce the amount of drop a bit. If you only had an 8' ceiling I would have voted for non-coffered. I think the amount of class it adds to the room is worth losing a few inches of headroom. In the renders it looks like you removed the soffit uplighting with the coffered ceiling which I think is a great idea as well or it might look to busy.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rob_McArthur* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the renders it looks like you removed the soffit uplighting with the coffered ceiling which I think is a great idea as well or it might look to busy.



That was a bit of an assumption on my part... I felt it'd cover up the fiber optic ceiling too much and left it out. Sorry if I wasn't supposed to. ^_^


----------



## suffolk112000

You guys... this thing looks awesome!!

I vote for the coffered ceilings. Just make the cross sections smaller like SVonhof mentioned.










Craig


----------



## SmX

Update:


Double Layer Drywall Is Done on walls and 3 Layers on ceiling with GG in between. Also All finished Mudding. Equipment Rack is the Last to do because the AC guy needs to get in above It to run the Supply and return Lines and make the Duct Boxes to feed the room.


Also finished Pre Cutting all the 3/4" MDF for the Soffits.











Here are some boring Drywall flicks











































More to Come...


----------



## SmX

An Update,


We are no Longer going to use MDF for the Soffits, actually we were never planning on using MDF (a misunderstanding on my behalf). The Soffits are going to be framed out with 2" x 2"s and left open to be used as bass traps and will get filled will Cotton Batts or a mix of Cotton/R-19 and the Frame will get wrapped with a paper so the Highs don't get Sucked up then covered with GoM.


The Light Trays will still be made out of MDF and part of the Columns too. The Left over MDF will be used for another project I have to do in our home once this project gets completed.


----------



## SmX

I been getting a couple PMs from people wondering about how I am treating the room. I recently brought BPape in on my project to consult me on how to acoustically treat my room and he is doing an awesome job.


So Far we Tackled the Bass Absorbtion Issues by turning the Soffits and Columns into Bass Traps and Making some Bass Trap Panels for behind the Screen wall Using Cotton Batts.


We are now working on treating all the reflection points on the Walls & Ceiling. He is a great guy to work with and loves talking about this and thinking out great solutions.


More to Come...


----------



## bpape

Thanks for the kind words. For those following along, the front corners will have broadband bass absorbers floor to ceiling (gotta love false walls). With the speakers he is using up front, doing too much in terms of soft absorbtion on the front wall is a concern.


Between the main speakers and between the broadband absorbers and the speakers will be wooden sealed resonant panel traps. Out in the room on the wall bottoms, there will be a few more of the panel type traps but tuned to a different center frequency.


----------



## SmX

Updates...


Its been a slow week due to my helpers grandmother passing away and him having to go to NY to attend the Funeral and Wake. So this week I got the Duct Work installed by a pro (cost $250.00). I Framed out The Platform and Stage by myself this week as well.


I also got my Supplies for the Bass Traps and treatments for the room from BPape which was extremely good priced, he is really working with me.


I am holding Off on doing the Soffits until my helper comes back.


Here are the Cotton Batts for the Bass Traps along with other Stuff That Arrived from BPape. It was allot of Boxes! Boxes were Big but not Heavy, after all its only cotton and fiberglass.











Here is the Duct work that got done. We used Duct board instead of Flex to reduce sound transmission because the Ducts act like a muffler and pretty much kills sound going through it. I already tested them out by placing a Speaker blasting in front of the Duck openings and went inside the home and Heard absolutely nothing coming through the exchanger or supplies. The Ducts still need to be encased and sealed with 3/4" MDF...










Here is the Platform the Chairs will be on, the Platform was built in 2 parts made out of 2" x 12"s and took about 5 hours to make by Myself. It will contain Outlets and Conduits and will be filled with Insulation. The Widow in the Back will be Sealed once all my materials are brought in. The window was a big convinience, saved walking through the house with everything...










Here is the Stage, which will be filled with about 4,000 lbs of sand. The Stage was built in 4 parts which are not tied together yet in the pictures below.

The stage was made with 2" x 10"s and Took about 4 hours to make.









Front View of Stage










This is a Side View of the Room to show the distance between the Stage and Platform










By the way, taking these pictures was impossible without a Wide Angle Lens, I could not Capture the whole side. I forgot I had one, so I ended up using it










More to come Soon...


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

You are really moving and that framing looks great. I think that the Sandman will soon be hauling that sand to fill the stage.


Let's see if my prediction that you don't have enough holds true.


Also don't forget that you don't want to fasten the stage to the walls. Leave a little gap. That way any vibration created in the stage won't get to the walls.


----------



## suffolk112000

I may have missed this, but what is going to be the distance between first row and screen? How big is the screen?

I love the stage. It looks like you could actually use it! It really has some character.









Also love the way your riser curves as well. You are doing a wonderfull job.


Craig


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are really moving and that framing looks great. I think that the Sandman will soon be hauling that sand to fill the stage.
> 
> 
> Let's see if my prediction that you don't have enough holds true.
> 
> 
> Also don't forget that you don't want to fasten the stage to the walls. Leave a little gap. That way any vibration created in the stage won't get to the walls.



Thanks for the great comments guys, you guys keep giving me motivation.


From what it says on the bag, it takes 11 50lb. bags to fill a 4' x 4' x 4" area. The Main stage without the little radius sections in front is 43" x 181" x 9.5" tall. After you take out all the Space for the 12 Joists in the middle that takes away 18" from 180" which ends up being 163" x 43"x 9.5" ID


So 163" x 43" x 9.5 is 66,585.5 Square Inches and 11 50 lb. bags is 9,216 Square Inches. 66,585 divided by 9,216 equals 7.2 so 7.2 x 11 bags is 79.47 bags.


I ordered 80 bags (4,000 lbs.) plus I had 2 here already, so I have 82 bags total.


But who knows, my math could be way off?


As far as not attaching the front Stage to the walls, that was my first intention to avoid transfer of vibration to the walls. I even used Foam on a roll all around the sides of the stage that meets the walls and left a half inch gap all around the stage. But after talking to BPape which is consulting me on this project, he said it would be fine to tie the stage into the wall. I still think I rather not tie the stage into the wall and will talk to him further on that. I personally rather keep the stage floating.


The Distance from the first row of eyes to the screen is 120" The width of the screen is 120" or 138" diagonal 16:9. I personally like a Big Picture and will be sitting up front. Second Row of eyes is 185" from the Screen.


The Big Question for Me Now is whether to have a Lip or not on the Stage and Platform. A Lip will be great to run a rope under for accent lighting. I may be running Fiber optics for my rope lighting instead of rope lighting. Its just a Pain in the ass to keep having sections of the rope burning out on you when Fiber is Lifetime with only having to change one or 2 bulbs when they go.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, FYI, I have had no problems with any of the sections of rope-light burning out. This is probably helped by the fact that I have a Lutron Grafik Eye controlling the lights and it never goes full-off to full-on instantly, but always ramps up to the level that it is set to. The minimum time for ramp-up I have set is 1 second.


----------



## bpape

Ruben,


I'm sure you never thought about filling a stage when you picked your moniker










As for attaching the stage to the walls - with the isolated wall construction, I don't see it being a problem at all to attach it. Realistically with all that sand in it - you probably don't NEED to - that's for sure. With all the sand in it, I also hardly think there will be much of any vibration that it'll be passing to the walls. Either way will work. I personally don't think there will be any difference either way. I just prefer to tie everything together and make it as solid as possible.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Way back on the first page:


"What I ordered was


1,000 lbs. of Pavers Sand to fill Stage"


OK so you have 4 times as much as I thought. That should do it.


----------



## Cloud zer0

This is amazing!

it should work out like a charm, because you VISuALiSed everything before doing it in great detail.

I hope your sound mats will keep sound away from neighbors well.

Great work, good luck !


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

On the lip thing. From my local consultant "Clarence"


A lip aids in installing the carpet. You carpet it with two pieces rather than bending one piece over and down. When the carpet installers showed up at his place he asked them and ended up ripping a 2x4 in half and mounting to the edge of the plywood. (not certain that would work for curved sections).


----------



## Tom Kay

To SandmanX and Reaper;


These renderings that you guys do are blowing me away. It's almost more exciting to see the drawings that you do, than the finished HT's. Awesome work, and it must be nice to have an almost exact idea of what your theater will look like before it's even started. That'll keep you nailing and drywalling.


I have made some drawings using a program called Corel Draw. It's a good program, for what it is (more of a semi-techincal drawing program, but less technical than AutoCad) and if I were a real ace with it, I could make the pictures more photo-like, but comparatively, my drawings are almost like clip art or stick figures. Still it's handy to be able to plot things out to scale on computer and change things quickly as needed.


Keep up the renderings ! they are really neat to see.


Cheers, Tom Kay, Ottawa Canada.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Way back on the first page:
> 
> 
> "What I ordered was
> 
> 
> 1,000 lbs. of Pavers Sand to fill Stage"
> 
> 
> OK so you have 4 times as much as I thought. That should do it.



Yeah, that was some real Bad figuring on my behalf







You was right.


----------



## reaper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Kay* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To SandmanX and Reaper;
> 
> 
> These renderings that you guys do are blowing me away. It's almost more exciting to see the drawings that you do, than the finished HT's. Awesome work, and it must be nice to have an almost exact idea of what your theater will look like before it's even started. That'll keep you nailing and drywalling.
> 
> 
> I have made some drawings using a program called Corel Draw. It's a good program, for what it is (more of a semi-techincal drawing program, but less technical than AutoCad) and if I were a real ace with it, I could make the pictures more photo-like, but comparatively, my drawings are almost like clip art or stick figures. Still it's handy to be able to plot things out to scale on computer and change things quickly as needed.
> 
> 
> Keep up the renderings ! they are really neat to see.
> 
> 
> Cheers, Tom Kay, Ottawa Canada.



Thanks for the compliment. They are fun to do, although a lot of work. But in the end, I think it always pays off. Almost every guy I have worked with has improved his design in some pretty signficant manner after seeing the renders... I'd say 90% or more. It certainly kept me motivated during the build of my theater... that's for sure...










reap


----------



## BjsAust

Looking great! Very impressive so far.


----------



## SmX

Well Today Marks one Month since I started constructing The Theater. I feel it would of went a bit faster if I had more reliable helpers. But, Looking back at my first Post in this thread, I just realized how much things got changed along the way.


For One, I stated the room was going to be 20' x 16' x 8.5 ceiling

it ended up being 20'-4.5" x 15' -1" x 9' Ceiling.


I Stated I was Going to do Double Drywall with RSIC Clips on The Ceiling

it ended up Being 3 layers of 5/8"s Drywall with Green Glue between each layer.


I stated I was going To use 5/8"s & 1/2" Drywall

I ended up using Double layers of 5/8"s


I stated the rear Platform was going To be 10" high

It ended up being 12" high


I stated all lighting will be Low voltage

Now all lighting will be High Voltage or ?line Level I should Say.


I started with 60 Pieces of 5/8"s Sheet Rock and

I ended up needing 84 to complete the room


I thought I was gonna Need 1,000 lbs of Sand to fill The stage

I ended up needing 4,000 lbs.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I think we have all felt your pain. But I think you will be really impressed with the result. I know we all are watching this thread in anticipation of it all coming together.


I started out thinking a wall with a built in RP and a nice curved sectional.


It's now a FP with sand filled stage, Wall treatments, riser for second row, Berkline 99's and tactile transducers (yet to install), a stand up granite top bar (plan) with four stools behind that. I boarded up two windows that I already had installed all the trim boards. Also had to cut holes in my freshly constructed walls to fish cables to the projector.



Of course my biggest mistake was taking my wife to a model home and letting her see a basement mini spa. What started out as a full bath, now is planned to become a bath with steam and a separate sauna attached. This required the removal of a 10 ft long framed up wall to reconfigure.


We still haven't seen Eye to Eye on the selection of carpet or the tile.


----------



## tlogan6797

I've SEEN BIGmouthinDC's place....he should change his moniker to BIGProjectinDC!


----------



## SVonhof

I know what you mean BIG, I was going to do carpet on half the height of the walls and some simple trim to finish it off, a curved couch and some dark colors to go along with the projector.


I ended up using acoustically transparent fabric over wall treatments, three love-seats with shakers for every seat, a platform in the back, two windows blocked off completly, remote control lights and blinds.... And to top it off, after I had started working on things, my wife almost convinced me to swap sides of the room that the screen would be on and leaving the equipment where I had planned. That would have put all equipment in the back of the room and me trying to figure out how to fit everything...


----------



## SmX

Well Today was a Gruesome day.


I had to go to Home Depot and get 14 Sheets of 3/4" Plywood to finish the Platform and Stage. Spent 4 hours in Home Depot waiting for them to find someone to Drop the wood and then I had them rip all the sheets to the rough sizes I needed to finish the Stage and Platform.


They had also shorted me 30 Bags of Sand on the previous delivery so I had to pick that up as well. They had previously delivered 20 Sheets of warped 5/8"s plywood I was gonna use for the stages and I decided to return it and get 3/4"s allready ripped to Size.


Well The gruesomeness was having to load all that Sand and 14 Sheets of Plywood on the Home Depot Truck by Myself, Drive home unload It all by myself. Then Load up the 20 sheets of 5/8"s to bring Back, then unload the 20 sheets at Home Depot to return it.


On top of all this it was like 500 degrees out here today and all my clothes were Soaked from sweat like If I jumped in the pool.


After all that work, I was burnt out and called it the Day.


The biggest and hardest part of building is all the Loading and unloading and hours spent at Home Depot. One good thing about Home Depot is that you can return something from 2 years ago without a receipt and get a store gift card.


On a better Note, my neighbor is a contractor and gave me one of his guys to help me complete this project (*wish I would of known this before all the loading and unloading). So I will have a new helper starting Saturday (Today). He will have the awesome Job of Bringing the 4,000 lbs. of sand inside the house and start filling the stage.


Last Night I did Manage to get the Platform Wired up, conduited, and insulated. The platform will have 4 outlet boxes (2 on the Front Riser and 2 on the Back floor) and one double gang box for Cat 5/Phone line/cable.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, be carefull with the Home Depot returns without a receipt. If you do it too many times, you will get flagged in their system and they will stop allowing you to return stuff. They will assume that you are stealing the stuff and returning it for something that you really want.


If you have the receipt, bring it with you always.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, be carefull with the Home Depot returns without a receipt. If you do it too many times, you will get flagged in their system and they will stop allowing you to return stuff. They will assume that you are stealing the stuff and returning it for something that you really want.
> 
> 
> If you have the receipt, bring it with you always.



Yeah, I am already in the Home Depot System as a Suspend. The managers all know me well there and know I spend lots of money there and see me there almost every day.


I have returned literally Thousands Of Dollars worth of merchandise to Home Depot without the Receipt. Even though I save all my Receipts, it is too Much work too look though all the boxes for them and then try to find that 1 Home Depot receipt I need a few months down the road.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I have a 1 inch stack of HD receipts for my basement project. Every couple of months I staple a batch together and put the big alligator clip around the accumulating stack.


When I return something I have this thing in my pocket. When they say do you have the receipt, I say Yes it's right here and hand them the stack. Never had a problem.


----------



## SmX

Well the new helper arrived at 2pm on the dot today as I asked him to. We banged out bringing In all the Sand, Plywood, and 2"x 2"s and Got the Stage Lined and filled in under 3 hours. We worked only a few hours today just to do the Heavy Stuff.


About 35% of the Sand was Damp the rest was dry. So I put all The dry sand on the Bottom and the Damp Stuff on Top and got a powerful fan blowing on It now. The Stage ended up using 76 50 Lb bags to level it to the top. So I had 6 bags Left that I will just throw inside some of the cavities in the Radius sections of the Stage and use insulation for the rest of unfilled cavities. I threw those extra 6 Bags on top of the stage for now to dry out.


Here some Flicks, A Bit Messy, but you get the point









I took away the 2 radius parts of the stage to make filling the stage easier.




















Come to find out my new helper use to build boats for a living and he is a very detailed carpenter, so that will Save me allot of work.


We continue on Monday.


I also went to Home Depot today and picked up my outlets and other things for the Platform. I will have a Plate on Front of the Riser of the platform that will contain a Stereo RCA Input, A Cat5E Input, a Phone Line, A SVHS Input and a Coaxial Cable input which will all run to the equipment Rack. I also have an 2" Empty Conduit Running from the Front of the platform riser to the Rack as well. I think that should cover all my needs for front of the Platform for now. This plate will serve usefull for when I need to hook up a video camera or a video game console that a friend may bring over as well getting online with a laptop, etc.


This is what I put together...











More to Come on Monday.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Any thought to butt kickers?


I thought that they were a gimmick that this 55 year old could pass up until I visited another local DIY HT and Whoa are these things neat. It gives the impression that your sound is literally shaking the house.


The reason I ask is now is the time to put in the wiring. I used plates with speaker banana connections in the front edge and a floor mount plate on the riser. Since I had the chairs before wiring I was able to determine the riser floor locations under the chairs not under an arm and not right under the motor. When complete you won't see any wiring on the riser. Having said that I haven't installed the aura shakers in my berklines yet.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any thought to butt kickers?
> 
> 
> I thought that they were a gimmick that this 55 year old could pass up until I visited another local DIY HT and Whoa are these things neat. It gives the impression that your sound is literally shaking the house.
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is now is the time to put in the wiring. I used plates with speaker banana connections in the front edge and a floor mount plate on the riser. Since I had the chairs before wiring I was able to determine the riser floor locations under the chairs not under an arm and not right under the motor. When complete you won't see any wiring on the riser. Having said that I haven't installed the aura shakers in my berklines yet.



I never tried them, and I was going to have 3 of them pre-installed in My chairs at The factory to see if I like them, but after talking To a few people about them, I decided to pass on them. But I am still planningg to install outlets around the chairs for them in case I try them in the future and like them. So I should do the bananna plugs too as well, but like you said, I will not know where to position anything untill the chairs arrive.


So for now, I guess I can leave my floor boards untied untill the chairs arrive. I ordered my chairs on Sept 13 from leather direct so it may take another 4 weeks or so before they arrive due to them being a Leather and microfabric combo.


By the way, leather direct really worked with me on pricing. Their prices were already the best I found online, and they dropped even more off the chairs to accomodate my budget and give me the top grade Leather and Microfabric combo I wanted.


Get Those Bad Boys installed and let me know how ya like them.


----------



## SmX

Just a quick update The sand looks pretty much dried up already. I shoveled it around and it is coming along quite fast. It should Definately be 100% dried by Monday.


Also, if it is still a Slight bit damp when I close the stage up, won't it still dry up inside?

And if it doesn't, is it really gonna get much mildew in there? I just don't Know how anal I should be about having the dryest possible sand.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman, What happened did you fall off a ladder or something?


After starting this great thread and giving us almost daily updates, to leave us hanging for 6 days is like a good episode of Lost. You give us a few answers but raise twice as many questions.


Like how are you going to build those soffits and make them bass absorbers? Can you find enough book shelf projects to use up that MDF.


What screen and projector will he end up with?, Will all the soundproofing work? Will the Florida insects find that garden of eden of sand and wood?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, What happened did you fall off a ladder or something?
> 
> 
> After starting this great thread and giving us almost daily updates, to leave us hanging for 6 days is like a good episode of Lost. You give us a few answers but raise twice as many questions.
> 
> 
> Like how are you going to build those soffits and make them bass absorbers? Can you find enough book shelf projects to use up that MDF.
> 
> 
> What screen and projector will he end up with?, Will all the soundproofing work? Will the Florida insects find that garden of eden of sand and wood?



Ha, ha, ha,

Thanks for checking In to make sure I'm still alive.










The new worker has proven to be rather a slow, but Good worker.

This is what got accomplished this week,


1) We sealed up the front Stage (Double 3/4" Plywood with Roofing Felt in between),


2) Finished Drywalling the Equipment Rack and behind the entrance wall.


3) Got all our Plywood cut for the Platform and stairs (but not tied down yet). We are still waiting for the chairs to determine placement of Banana plates & Outlets for the Top of the platform for possible future Butkickers.


4) We started encasing the Ducts with 3/4" MDF to stop Bass from traveling through the Duct work).


5) We installed all the 2"x2"s on the ceiling that the top front of the Soffits will attach to. The front of the Soffits will be solid 3/4" MDF and the bottom of the Soffits will remain open framed with 2" x 2"s to allow the soffits to be used as Bass traps. We will be Stuffing the soffits with all those Boxes of Cotton you see in one of the pictures I previously posted.


6) The Conduit for the platform got installed and ran into the Equipment rack.


7) Cleaning, (lots of cleaning got done). Almost all my tools were covered with Green Glue and Drywall Dust due to my previous worker being real sloppy. So I spent a half day cleaning off all my tools and re-organizing them.


Most of the Leftover MDF will be used for the Top and Bottoms of the 6 columns. Whatever is left Over from there, will be used for the next project.


The Projector I am going with (unless a better one comes out before completion of the theater) is the Optoma H-79 (like yours). That projector seems to be the best thing since Water according to the tons of reviews I read on it.


The Screen will be a Da-Lite Hi Contrast Micro Perf with a 1.1 gain, unless I learn about a Better Da-Lite Screen. I can't afford or rather won't spend $5,000.00 on a Stewart Screen at this point in my life.


As soon as the theater progresses a Little more, I will post some new pictures.


On another note, the new worker I hired is a 5 Star Retired Chef. He has been cooking some incredible dinners every night after we finish. So his Schedule is 7 Hours of building and 1 hour to cook.


More to Come...


----------



## Choots

Umm...excuse me for asking, but is your helper being paid?


And can I borrow him next?










-Choots


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Choots* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Umm...excuse me for asking, but is your helper being paid?
> 
> 
> And can I borrow him next?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Choots



Yes he is being paid, but what I realized is that I am basically paying him to cook instead of work. I been doing most of the work myself and he's been doing the cooking.


----------



## SmX

Update...


Today I installed all The conduit for the Speakers and Snaked through all the 10 Gauge Speaker Wire for the 7 channels. Also Ran Conduit for the front Sub, Cat 5 and Coax Cable for the Xanatech Remote IR Eye. Also, Finished Building The Frames for under the Soffits and finished cutting My MDF for the Soffit fronts. Also Ran the 2" Conduit from the Equipment Rack to the Projector the other Day. All that's left for Speaker Cable runs is the 8 Cables running in the Platform for the But Kickers.


Wednesday (Today) we shall get the soffits assembled and run all the Romex that will run inside the Soffits and Columns for Lighting and Outlets. We can then (hopefully) begin stuffing the Soffits with the Cotton I got from BPape for the Bass Traps and pop the IC Rated 4" cans in the Soffits.


I will be running 3 lines into the theater. One Dedicated line will power my Sub and outlets in the Columns and Platform, The Second Dedicated Line will power my Lighting and the 3rd Dedicated line will power my Equipment Rack and Projector.


All and All, it's coming along well. I have a friend coming up on thursday that I am going to have help out, things should pick up then.


Pictures to come once the Soffits are completed.


Stay Tuned!


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sounds great. Today I have to paint a bedroom where my wife "stores" her exercise equipment. She picked a "spa blue" Then back to the basement.


Sandman. We'd like to see a picture of a soffit before stuffing and after. We'd also like to know how much weight you are gaining with that new helper?


----------



## sknyfs

Hey Sandman, can I see a picture of the equipment rack framed. I'm looking to take out my stand and build a wall in the corner for my equipment.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sknyfs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman, can I see a picture of the equipment rack framed. I'm looking to take out my stand and build a wall in the corner for my equipment.



Basically my equipment Rack is a custom built Closet thats 21.5" Wide x 7' Tall and 30" deep built to spec to house a Mid-Atlantic Rack that Pulls out and Rotates. I'm using either this http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/srsr.htm or this http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/axsr.htm to rack my equipment.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds great. Today I have to paint a bedroom where my wife "stores" her exercise equipment. She picked a "spa blue" Then back to the basement.
> 
> 
> Sandman. We'd like to see a picture of a soffit before stuffing and after. We'd also like to know how much weight you are gaining with that new helper?



No Problemo, But I think my worker/chef quit on me. He didn't show up today or yesterday. Well I'm happy my friend is coming down for a month or so and he is going to help me finish this up.


One of the toughest parts to come will be framing the ceiling out to support my starfield ceiling and ceiling treatments and Running all the Fibre Optics. I already have a few ideas on what to do. Basically the Dropped Ceiling Tiles will each be 4' x 4' x 1/4" Masonite/Wood Panels with holes drilled in them for the star fibers and wrapped with Black GoM. They will get tied to 2" x 2" framing on the drywall ceiling. If the seams are real noticable between the tiles, I may Opt for the Coffered Ceiling look.


As far as Dinners...

I Probably Gained a few pounds from them already, but I am sure I will work them off throughout finishing this Theater


----------



## SmX

Update,


I just got confirmation from the Trucking company that my chairs will be delivered tomorrow between 2pm - 7pm. I ordered the custom chairs from Leather Direct on Sept 13 and they are getting delivered to me tomorrow which is the 14th of October. So 1 Month waiting period to receive them which is great time in my book.


Now I'm really going to have allot of boxes in my great room now. Those boxes are probably going to take up allot of Space depending on how big they are. I ordered 7 Chairs with Wedge Arms.


Well now this gives me much more reason to get the Room finished quicker and Now I can finish up the Platform as well.


Back to work


----------



## skyman00

BUMP


Ruben-

Updates/pics? -j


----------



## suffolk112000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update,
> 
> 
> I just got confirmation from the Trucking company that my chairs will be delivered tomorrow between 2pm - 7pm. I ordered the custom chairs from Leather Direct on Sept 13 and they are getting delivered to me tomorrow which is the 14th of October. So 1 Month waiting period to receive them which is great time in my book.




I think he may have fell to sleep in his new chairs.










Craig


----------



## bpape

He's resting up till his original helper comes back. Then they can get back to that breakneck pace they started with...


----------



## darkman2003

Where's the Sandman ???


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

From my experience by the time you get all the chairs unpacked you have a literal mountain of cardboard and packing foam. I think in his rush he created a pile and that it fell on him trapping him like an avalanche. I'd say by now he has lost all the weight he gained from having that chef working at his house and someone should go over and help him get out from under the pile.


----------



## bpape

ROTFL


I have it on good authority that all is well but he's working alone. Electrician was in last weekend and he was working on filling the soffits. I'm sure we'll see more pics coming soon.


----------



## SmX

Hey Everyone,


Thanks for keeping me On my toes and checking in. Sometimes it Seems like only 3 or 4 people are only watching this thread and I realize its allot more.


Well, Last Week I had a second 125 amp Service Panel Installed for the theater. I ran a Separate dedicated Phase with 2 20 amp Lines to the Equipment rack and one 20 Amp to the front of the Theater for the Sub and front Speakers. We also ran another Separate Phase with a 20 amp for the Lighting so the lighting isn't sharing the Same power for the Equipment (or isn't in the same phase as the equipment, I should say).


I opened up one of the Chairs, and all I can say is Absolutely Incredible. One of the very few things I ever bought blind that way Exceeded my expectations. I took pictures of everything but didn't have time to post them.


We got a lot more cleaning and Organizing done as well last week too.


We got the Soffits completed (without light Trays so far). We did not get the soffits filled yet because of the Hurricane that hit South Florida. My town (Boca Raton) got completely destroyed from it and lost all power. I left to Orlando to stay at a Hotel around Universal Studios until power is restored. South Florida has been declared a disaster area and has over 10 billion dollars in damage. Over 6 million people are without electricity the last I checked, I had to drive all the way up to Orlando before finding Electricity anywhere.


I live in a community which was beautiful until the hurricane completely destroyed it. Thank GOD my home Suffered minor damage (Lost 3 Outdoor Ceiling Fans totaling $1,200), Some Brick Tiles Off the Roof ($ Who Knows?) and Some Trees/bushes got ripped out and completely Destroyed (Couple thousand $$$). My home was built in 97 and is pretty hurricane proof considering. No windows got broke, even with massive wind Speeds hitting them directly.


I am checking everyday to see if power got restored in my area, until then, I am using this time as a vacation up here.


See you Shortly hopefully.


----------



## bpape

We'll be thinking about you. Glad to hear that apparently you and your home came through relatively OK.


----------



## jrfuda

Sandman, good thing your house was well built. That must've been one heck of a wind to pull off brick roof tiles!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We'll be thinking about you. Glad to hear that apparently you and your home came through relatively OK.




Thanks for your thoughts Bryan & John.


It looks like palm beach county which is my county) will be the slowest to get electric restored due to the massive Damage to local Lines and Sub Stations.


I will keep everyone updated.


----------



## tonybradley

Sandman,


My brother lives in Ft. Lauderdale and he is at our Cousin's house in Orlando. I didn't even realize that Hurricane was going to hit that area until I saw the news last night. Talked to my brother and he said it looked like a war zone.


Times like this makes a Dedicated Home Theater seem very trivial. But, things will get back to normal and you can rid the stress of other things by working on your room. Good luck.


----------



## darkman2003

Good to hear from you Sandman my prayers goes out to You and the people of



Boca Raton.Glad to hear your home came threw without much damage.



KEEP THE FAITH!!!



DARKMAN


----------



## SmX

Thanks for your thoughts Darkman & Tony.


I found out last night that electricity will not be completely restored until November 22










I am going to have to look into getting a generator that can power my whole home, central Air and all. Does anyone here know about Generators and What's Good?


I was looking at a Generac Guadian Home Standby Generator that's 125 amp - 120/240 volt 15 kW.


Does anyone know if this will do the job?


----------



## SVonhof

So, I checked with a buddy who has a generator and this is what he said:


> Quote:
> here's is the generator I bought from homedepot it runs on either natural gas or propane, so if he can't get either one then it will do him no good. I was told that you want 15000 kw system to run the house, it has the compacity to run twelve circuit total, so if his theater room is one circuit then he would have eleven more open circuits. it's all auto so when the power goes off the generator kicks on and visa vera it will go off. It also has a self check that you set the will turn the generator at that time every week to keep the battery charged. The tranfer box is not water proof so if he dosen't mount it inside then he needs to build a box around it to keep the water off it.
> 
> 
> Here's my Guardian generator info
> 
> 15000/13000 Watt Home Stand-by Generator
> 
> Model 04390
> 
> Internet/Catalog 168827
> 
> Store SKU # 209 241
> 
> $2,995.00
> 
> 
> 24/7 blackout protection whether you're home or away. Fully automatic home standby generator comes pre-packaged and pre-wired with an automatic transfer switch. Unit operates on either natural gas (13,000 watts) or LP gas (15,000 watts.) 30 HP OHVI Industrial engine with full pressure lubrication. Includes composite mounting pad for quick installation. DUE TO INCREASED DEMAND DURING HURRICANE SEASON, THIS PRODUCT MAY TAKE UP TO 14 DAYS TO SHIP AND UP TO 28 DAYS TO REACH YOUR HOME.THIS ITEM CANNOT BE RETURNED.
> 
> 
> 15000 watts (LP) / 13000 watts (NG)
> 
> Automatic blackout protection
> 
> Automatic transfer switch with built-in load center
> 
> UL Listed 2200
> 
> Includes: 30 ft., 5 ft. & 2 ft. pre-wired conduits, outdoor connection box, flexible fuel line and composite mounting pad
> 
> 30 HP OHVI Industrial engine
> 
> THIS ITEM CANNOT BE RETURNED.
> Generator


----------



## SVonhof

Note the part about hurricane season and delivery times...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Note the part about hurricane season and delivery times...



That was real cool of you to get that info together for me, thank You very Much. Its real funny that this is the same Generator I was looking at, as you will see in my post above.


I was just about to buy it until Home Depot Said I Had to Buy a $5,000.00 Gas Tank and Put it underground Which means this $3k generator ends up costing $10k after that Tank and installation. Can You ask your friend if he had to Spend that much on a LP or Nat Gas Tank? I asked them how long a BBQ LP Propane tank would take to run out and they said 15 Minutes.


Also, I'm using the Generator to do my whole home when ever there is a blackout again, Central Air and all. It Is not just for the Theater, FLorida can get real Hot, and it isn't pretty being In a unAir Conditioned home for a week or 2 out here.


Thanks Again

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

I was in Orlando two weeks ago for a week-long visit and it was hot and humid every day except for the Saturday we were leaving. In the hotel we were staying in, we had the A/C running 24/7.


My buddy lives in a rural area and has propane already. Since he is not in a development, but owns some acreage, he has an above-ground tank to supply the whole house. He was able to simply tap into this. Also, he said that to have the warrantee validated, you have to have the install signed off by a certified Gaurdian Technician. Another note, if you are in a sub-development, with neighbors nearby, you will have to remember that this is not a quiet unit. He said that if the power is out, it is running and if you want to turn it off at night or something, you have to physically flip the breaker so it won't run, otherwise, it runs non-stop.


As for powering the A/C, he doesn't know about that. He needs A/C where he lives, but they got it up and running after it was already cooling off, and then the power never went out before the A/C was not needed at all.


----------



## ebr

Sandman - Sorry to hear about your hurricane situation - you guys in Fla have taken a beating lately. Hopefully, your project (and the rest of your household) will be back up and running very soon.


BTW - I really LOVE your stage design. I hope you don't mind if I rip it off in my next room







. Keep up the great work.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW - I really LOVE your stage design. I hope you don't mind if I rip it off in my next room
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Keep up the great work.



Wait? Another theater? Are you moving again?


Holy cow!


----------



## SmX

Hi Everyone,


Well I finally got back home Today (Monday) after one week of switching from different hotels from Orlando to Miami. My electricity and Cable Modem is back up and online and I am excited to get our theater completed now. These are The pictures I took last week before the Hurricane that I couldn't Upload...


Here is an overhead Shot of the Room with all the Boxes and the open Chair on the Pool Table. Just to get an Idea how big those boxes are, that's a regulation / legal size pool table.










Here are some pictures of the Chair. It is Red Soft top grade Leather with Black MicroFabric. The pictures do not do any justice for the chairs. The Red Leather has a nice mix of shades and is a bit darker than what the pictures show. The microfabric looks real nice and velvety black. The chair in the picture has a regular arm on one side and a Wedge arm on the other to create the radius curve I designed my Platform to.






































Soffits Pre Construction Shots. These are the Soffits without the Light trays. They will be stuffed with Cotton and will be left open on the bottom and covered with GoM.











In this picture below, you will notice the HVAC Duct Trunk is Encased in 3/4" MDF. This was done to help eliminate Bass from escaping from the room. Also we used 1" Duct board with a 90 degree turn to act as a muffler so sound does not travel through the duct work into the Home. We will also be using 4" x 36" linear grills to help reduce transmission of sound instead of a 12" x 18" Vent/Grill.





























Here is the 125 Amp additional Service Panel I had Installed dedicated to the theater, part of the Wall above it and below still needs to be closed up. Cost to have this installed was $300.00 Labor and $225.00 in Parts. I have 2 20 Amp lines running to the Rack, one 20 amp line running to the Sub and outlets and the other 20 Amp Line powers the Lights on a Separate phase ...











I will get back to work shortly here and update you with some new pictures...


Keep Checking Back!


----------



## ebr

Yes, Scott - believe it or not, we are building another house. Just got under way so will be a while before my costruction really gets going.


I finally get a basement theater, though. Really looking forward to that.


Hey Sandman - would you mind posting some dimensions on that stage?


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, Scott - believe it or not, we are building another house. Just got under way so will be a while before my costruction really gets going.
> 
> 
> I finally get a basement theater, though. Really looking forward to that.



Dude, your CRAZY!







All that just to get a basement home theater?!









I hope its a good move and you don't loose your shirt on the equipment that you do leave behind. I beleive you did o.k. the last time, so you know how to do it. Maybe you should start a post on how to sell a home with a dedicated theater in it! Or maybe I missed it already?


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Sandman, It must be nice to be home finally. Sorry for what mother nature has put you through, although you must have renewed enthusiasm to work on your room.


Man, those seats are fantastic.


I have a quick question for you. How are you going to finish the joint formed where the MDF on their soffit meets your ceiling? Do you mud and tape as usual? I am at the same point on mine and can't decide to mud and tape or just seal it and cover with a crown. I'm worried that this is going to crack over time because of different expansion rates between the MDF and sheetrock.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rob_McArthur* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a quick question for you. How are you going to finish the joint formed where the MDF on their soffit meets your ceiling? Do you mud and tape as usual? I am at the same point on mine and can't decide to mud and tape or just seal it and cover with a crown. I'm worried that this is going to crack over time because of different expansion rates between the MDF and sheetrock.



Thanks Rob.


As for the MDF meeting the Drywall on top I will be using a Silicone Caulking to fill the Voids. But Honestly, those litlle gaps will not be seen in my situation because I am doing a Fiber Optic Dropped Ceiling that will drop down 1.5" from the existing Drywall Ceiling. The Star Panel Ceiling tiles are 42" x 42" masonite boards wrapped with GoM attached to 2" x 2"s.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, Scott - believe it or not, we are building another house. Just got under way so will be a while before my costruction really gets going.
> 
> 
> I finally get a basement theater, though. Really looking forward to that.
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman - would you mind posting some dimensions on that stage?



Sure, in the next few Days I should have some free time to put it together for you.


For the meantime, The Rough Dimensions are 178" Wide by 58" from front to back on the top in the middle.

The curve ends on both sides 47" from front to back. The Stage is constructed with 2" x 10" Joists and has 2 Layers of 3/4" Plywood on top with #30 Roofing felt in between layers. The finished Step is 5.5" high the finished stage is 11" high.


The stage is lined with plastic and filled with 4,000 lbs. of play sand.


----------



## ebr

Thanks. That's very close to what I eyeballed it at from the picture. I thought your top radius projected about 12" - looks like its 11". Is the lower step about 8"?


The width is almost exactly what I have to work with as well and I like the proportions you have. Thanks again.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. That's very close to what I eyeballed it at from the picture. I thought your top radius projected about 12" - looks like its 11". Is the lower step about 8"?
> 
> 
> The width is almost exactly what I have to work with as well and I like the proportions you have. Thanks again.



Looks like it may be time to start planning a trip to Florida?


Hey Sandman, the seats look really nice, I really like the way the red came out, almost a splotchy look because of the way the leather took the coloring. I like it better than a solid red as it looks like they started with black leather and added red after the first dye process or something.


----------



## suffolk112000

Sandman,


Those chairs are beautiful!!

Who makes them?

How do they compare to Berkline 090's in regards to pricing per seat!!


Craig


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Yup, you need to be careful and not put one of those chairs outside. The cops will issue you a speeding ticket. I can't wait to see them in formation and the room all tricked out. Glad to hear you are home and everything looks undamaged.


You are going to need to see if there are some neighbor kids who want to make a fort out of all those boxes. That would make it someone elses problem to cut them up for the garbage man. I think I went trough two blades on just my 6 boxes.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *suffolk112000* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> Those chairs are beautiful!!
> 
> Who makes them?
> 
> How do they compare to Berkline 090's in regards to pricing per seat!!
> 
> 
> Craig



Thanks for the compliments. The chairs are made by Berkline they are a new model they just came out with called the 075. I got them from Leatherdirect.com and they ran me a little over $600.00 each using the top quality Leather and micro fabric combo.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman, the seats look really nice, I really like the way the red came out, almost a splotchy look because of the way the leather took the coloring. I like it better than a solid red as it looks like they started with black leather and added red after the first dye process or something.
> 
> 
> Craig



Thanks, I was extremely pleased with the way they turned out. Its really hard to make a decision based on a swatch. I am a big dude and the chairs are extremely comfortable and they are also a bit wider than the Berkline 090's.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. That's very close to what I eyeballed it at from the picture. I thought your top radius projected about 12" - looks like its 11". Is the lower step about 8"?
> 
> 
> The width is almost exactly what I have to work with as well and I like the proportions you have. Thanks again.
> 
> 
> Craig



The Step is 8" without the lip, with the lip it is 9.5" (1.5" Lip on Step)



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yup, you need to be careful and not put one of those chairs outside. The cops will issue you a speeding ticket. I can't wait to see them in formation and the room all tricked out. Glad to hear you are home and everything looks undamaged.
> 
> 
> You are going to need to see if there are some neighbor kids who want to make a fort out of all those boxes. That would make it someone elses problem to cut them up for the garbage man. I think I went trough two blades on just my 6 boxes.
> 
> 
> Craig



LOL







Thanks Bud, I will use a Sawzall to chop the boxes up, not a big Deal for Me.


----------



## SmX

The Good thing about putting the Chair on my Pool Table is that it gives me a better idea on how the chairs will look on a Red Carpet. I think I am going to go with a Dark carpet either Dark Grey or Black with a little pattern. I seen a carpet I liked out here in black that has tan lines running through it, but the tan lines dont match the room.


I need to find a Black carpet with a grey or Red pattern. I do not want a Solid Black carpet, they get dirty way too fast.


Can anyone make any suggestions?


----------



## DigitalGriffin

So what's the total cost so far if you don't mind me asking (minus chairs)? This could give me a really good idea what if my $30K budget for room construction is going to cut it.


BTW: I vote for the coffered/tray ceilings. I imagine that adding boxing beams will help to break up frequencies akin to a bookshelf on the wall. And it looks like you're looking through a glass ceiling in something like a atrium/solarium.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DigitalGriffin* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what's the total cost so far if you don't mind me asking (minus chairs)? This could give me a really good idea what if my $30K budget for room construction is going to cut it.
> 
> 
> BTW: I vote for the coffered/tray ceilings. I imagine that adding boxing beams will help to break up frequencies akin to a bookshelf on the wall. And it looks like you're looking through a glass ceiling in something like a atrium/solarium.




If you look through my thread here you can total up all my expenses I recorded so far. I pretty much recorded everything I spent so far in here minus a few odds and ends like more Screws and Glue. Once the construction is all done I will total it up myself as well to see what it cost.


----------



## SmX

I just looked through all my posts and totaled up everything spent so far. Here is what I came up with...


$560.00 for framing lumber


$1,943.75 for Initial Drywall, Plywood, Sand, Insulation, Silicone, roofing felt, etc


$60.00 for Foam on the roll


$48.00 for Red Head Anchors


$100.00 Nails, Screws, Glue, etc


$1,250.00 for Fiber Star Ceiling supplies


$1,210.00 for 7 Cases of Green Glue


$200.00 for 18 More Sheets of 5/8"s Drywall


$4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.


$75.00 for Taping


$720.00 for the GoM Fabric


$100.00 for Renders of Room


$240.00 for 4000 lbs. of Sand for Stage


$250.00 for Ductwork installation


$66.00 for 6 More Sheets of Drywall


$625.00 for 125 Amp Service Box Installed


$75.00 for 200 Feet of Smurf Conduit and Clamps


$200.00 for 500 feet of 10 Gauge High Definition Zip Speaker Cable


$700.00 for Accoustic treatment materials so far


$1,200.00 for labor so far.


*$12,972.75 Total Spent so Far which pretty much includes all the materials needed to finish the room*


The only things left I need to purchase to finish the room is mouldings, some 1" 703, Carpet, Equipment Rack, Projector and Screen.


If you minus $4600.00 for the chairs and $1,250.00 for the star ceiling

the total spent so far on room construction is $7,122.75 plus or minus a few hundred bucks.


----------



## tannerjr

wow...this thread has been SOOOOOOOOOOOOO helpful!


----------



## tob!

Sandman we are waiting for new Pictures, whats going on ?


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ultimatum: Post at least one progress picture this weekend or we will all boycott this thread and turn to other more responsible forum members for our weekly DIY fix.


I think the underground bunker has the potential to steal your time slot if you don't watch out.


We don't want pictures of a great looking finished product. We want to see where you had to rip something out because you made a mistake. Or where you couldn't fit the prehung door in the framing, Or the light fixture wouldn't fit in the space you planned.


----------



## bpape

We're trying to get him another helper....


----------



## SmX

Hi Guys,


I lost my helper and started getting busy with other projects outside my home. I interviewed a couple workers that are suppose to come finish up our theater after Thanksgiving Weekend. Here is Whats Left to Do...


1) Add the Light trays to the Soffits

2) Make the Columns

3) Install the Fiber Optic Star Ceiling

4) Frame out the Screenwall.

5) Treat the walls and Ceiling reflection points.

6) Fabric the Walls

7) Install the carpet

8) Install the Light Fixtures

9) Hook Up the Equipment & Calibrate the Room

10) Watch a Movie










After the Holiday, I should be taking daily Pictures of the final stages of completion.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Correction:


10) organize a big spread of snacks


11) Watch Movie


By the way OTA HD by the networks, or cable or satellite HD feeds are the best images you'll see on that big screen. After I got my projector hooked up it took me about 30 long and painful days to be able to feed the beast a HD signal. You may want to get that on the planning critical path. At least think about OTA.


If it's not too late you may want to run a Quad shield rg6 cable to the attic to pick up the ota stuff if your distance works for you for an in attic antenna.


if you haven't discovered Antennaweb.org yet it is useful to let you know what to expect at your location.


----------



## bpape

Agreed. The HD OTA is definitely better than the compressed stuff you get from satellite or off the cable.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Correction:
> 
> By the way OTA HD by the networks, or cable or satellite HD feeds are the best images you'll see on that big screen. After I got my projector hooked up it took me about 30 long and painful days to be able to feed the beast a HD signal. You may want to get that on the planning critical path. At least think about OTA.
> 
> 
> If it's not too late you may want to run a Quad shield rg6 cable to the attic to pick up the ota stuff if your distance works for you for an in attic antenna.
> 
> 
> if you haven't discovered Antennaweb.org yet it is useful to let you know what to expect at your location.



I already Have HD with Direct TV and I have a Zenith HD-SAT520 Tuner Box that I purchased seperately. Would you recommend me getting an additional Attenna Hooked up to get Local HD channels when I am suppose to get them now with My Direct TV service?


One thing I have to Really think about is How I am going to get my Dish Signal to my Theater. My dish is on the Opposite side of the house and at the other End and on the wall near the roof of my second story. That is one hell of a cable feed through the house or one hell of an ugly cable running around the outside of the house.


Any Ideas?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, when you subscribe to the locals on DirecTV, that is for the SD channels, not HD. If you are in an area where your local stations are owned and operated by the affiliates (parent company of that network) then you would be able to qualify for a waiver from that station and only that station. The other way to get a waiver for a station is if you cannot get the signal OTA with an antenna. For me, I am 40 miles from the transmitter, so I can only get one waiver, from CBS, since Viacom bought the local CBS station (Viacom owns CBS or the other way around). If you can get the waivers, you would be able to get the network from the East Coast feed, which is based out of NYC.


This is all changing with the launch of the latest satelites from DirecTV that have the ability to send a "Spot beam" of local HD channels for different regions. This roll-out of true local HD channels is happening as I write this, but they are doing the first (I think) 25 top markets, so you need to find out which market you are in. I happen to be in the #18 market, so sometime in the next year, it will be in my area. With this roll-out is the replacement box that you need to get in order to get these new true local broadcasts which is an MPEG-4 decoding box, instead of using the current MPEG-2. There is more compression in MPEG-4, so they can squeeze more channels into one transmitter. DirecTV will be doing promotions in your area to replace your existing box with the new one for free (probably a rebate to make it free and possibly even a contract agreement for a length of time). So, be patient, it's coming.


I think that is all correct, it's hard to keep up with everything.


If you don't want to wait and also don't want to get an MPEG-4 compression, install an antenna so you can get your locals in HD. The OTA image is the best you can get.


As for your long/ugly coax cable run, do your best and if it gets to be too long, you may need to add a pre-amp to your coax.


----------



## SVonhof

Oh, also, if you are running coax, I reccomend running two of them, for the sake of using a DVR so you can have dual tuners.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben:


Right now my HD experience with Directv is that I got waivers for the network HD feeds for Fox and NBC. They come in fine. In fact the NY feed of NBC I get via the satellite has 5.1 sound the OTA version of HD NBC is only 2.0. In summary the only Thing that Dtv can offer me on networks is the added feature of 5.1 for NBC.

Big deal! I have the HD package but wish there were more offerings.


Even though I get the Fox network on the sat feed I usually just pick it up with the antenna. ABC,CBS,WB,PBS are available as well with good signal strength.

UPN is too weak to pick up at this time.


OTA is worth the price (equipment only). I was surprized at how small the antenna was. I got the DB4 bowtie ( antennasdirect.com) and it sits near the peak in my attic.


I'm in one of the first 12 markets with the mpeg4 and the new satellite system. I've been following the posts for the guys in Detroit who are the first market to get the new system.


Right now I can't see any advantage in moving to the new system. You have to install a new larger dish (more problems with wind) and there appears to be a number of roll-out bugs and inadequate experience in the field. For that headache I would not get a single additional HD channel. Ok maybe one if you consider UPN a channel. (The what's in it for me? deal) I would just have a 2nd source of my existing OTA.


However once they start adding additional national HD channels that aren't offered in the current HD package then it's a different story.


----------



## ebr

Also, for those of us with HDTivos - which record both Sat and OTA in HD - there is pretty much zero incentive to go to the new system (until they start offering more sat HD).


Sandman - sorry to hijack your thread here...now resuming proper topic...


----------



## SVonhof

One more point on the whole DirecTV thing. It is my assumption (and only that at this time) that once the rollout of MPEG-4 is complete, they will use the additional bandwidth that was being used for the NYC and L.A. HD locals to add more of the other HD networks such as TNT, USA, Encore....


Once again, it is my assumption only and if it does happen as I am guessing, it will be a while since they have to do the full roll-out first.


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all that incredibly valuable Information Guys. I heard that Direct TV put 2 new Satelites up in space and we are suppose to be getting 1,500 HD channels pretty soon. Is this true?


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Yes,


1500 = 1480 local network channels rebroadcast into the originating market (Local into Local aka LIL)



20 other HD channels like the MTV HD,


Soon, 5-6 years roll-out I'm guessing.


----------



## SVonhof

Yeah, it will take a while for them to really get things sorted out and set-up for what we really want, which is all HD all the time.


Too bad we don't have the a-la-carte packages, I would only ask for about 30 channels total since that's all I ever watch. They could drop the channels that nobody wants and then have more room for more HD...


----------



## DigitalGriffin

The word is DirecTV is switching from MPEG2 to MPEG4 which has a much higher compression rate so they can get more HD channels into the same bandwidth. MPEG4 is NOT backwards compatible with MPEG2. So all the equipment will eventually have to be swapped out as MPEG2 is dropped.


I can see DirecTV now..."Yes well give you an upgraded receiver or HD recroder for free...for a 4 year commitment..." Man that would tick me off.


----------



## thylantyr

Cable TV and Satellite, all a scam, selling you stuff you don't want to rape and pillage - hehehe


----------



## SmX

Well Last Night I got confirmation from the Workers that they will begin finishing the Theater on Monday (after ThanksGiving)


So I started making the Fiber Optic Star Panels for the Ceiling of the Theater. Each panel is 44.25" x 44.25" and we are Making 12 Panels to seamlessly cover the Ceiling.


Here are Some Pictures and Details...


We started with 1/4" Masonite Board (44.25" x 44.25") and Marked out a Grid with 11" x 11" Squares. This grid is to help place holes for Stars. You really dont want to do more than 4 holes per square Foot to keep it looking realistic. So I printed out a blown up version of the Alfa Centurie Galaxy and used that as Reference for Hole Placement for Stars.


Here you see the Grid and Black dots that represent star placement...











Here is the Fiber Optics we are using. They have 50 Fibers in one cable which will let us use 1 Cable per panel / 50 Stars per panel which adds up to 600 Stars between all 12 panels (if that made any sense



















So we first drilled the holes for the Fibers in the Masonite using a 1/16 drill bit. Then we framed out each panel Stapling 1" x 2"s to the Back. Then sprayed #80 3M glue to the Masonite. Then Wrapped the Panel with Black GoM and Stapled the GoM to the Sides of the 1" x 2"s. We then fed each fiber through each hole having some stick out a little more than others to make some stars appear Brighter. The fibers stick out from 1/4" to 1/16" on the GoM side which is completely invisable when its up on the ceiling (exept for when the fibers are on). The fibers are secured in place with Hot Glue.


Here is an unframed Panel with fibers ran to it and GoM glued to the front. I did this one panel Backwards because I didn't have any 1" x 2"s here when I started.











Here is a completed stapled Panel, Just needs to be trimmed. The Air Stapler is the Fastest way to do these panels...











Here is the Back Panel Framed with 1" x 2"s and Wrapped with GoM.











I hooked up the fiber cable to a light box to show you how it looks in the daytime. You can see how some stars look bigger than others in the picture. The Stars also randomly twinkle due to a spinning wheel with holes in the light box. When you adjust the cable in the Light Box just right the stars look extremely authentic.











Here is a Night Shot...











Here is one of the light Boxes. We have 2 Light Boxes to run the 12 Panels


----------



## bpape

Schweeeet.


----------



## jbhungvt

Very Nice HT and so far very nice details on the fiber optic ceiling.


I've been this thread all along, waiting for this moment to ask you questions about "how to install fiber optic ceilings". With just a couple of pictures you posted really help my understanding of my limited knowledge in this area.


Just a couple more questions about fiber optic ceilings in general if you dont' mind answering.


1. Is the fiber optic ceilings done before putting up the drywall in ceiling or normally done afterwards?

2. Where are the light boxes normally located?

3. Do you have a more detail descriptions of how to do this that you could share so I won't ask you all these questions







.

4. I noticed that you used 44"x44" area for doing fiber optic ceiling. Is the rest of the ceiling being painted black to match the gom covered fiber optic panels?


thanks,

jbhungvt


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. Is the fiber optic ceilings done before putting up the drywall in ceiling or normally done afterwards?
> 
> 2. Where are the light boxes normally located?
> 
> 3. Do you have a more detail descriptions of how to do this that you could share so I won't ask you all these questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 4. I noticed that you used 44"x44" area for doing fiber optic ceiling. Is the rest of the ceiling being painted black to match the gom covered fiber optic panels?
> 
> jbhungvt



Thanks,


1) We did 3 layers of 5/8's drywall on our ceiling with GG in between before adding these panels. So these panels are pretty much a drop ceiling that will drop about 2" from the Drywall ceiling. Some people have a crawl space or attic above them and can drill holes through their existing drywall ceilings instead of making panels like this.

We also used fabric on the ceiling panels because we are treating the ceiling reflection points and want the treatments to be seamlessly built into these panels.


2) The light boxes go Into 2 columns in my case (one in front of the theater and one in the rear). But they also can go into the surrounding soffit as long as you can access them to change a lightbulb and give them Air to breath.


3) I don't Know how much more detailed I can get. I thought with the details and pictures I posted it was detailed enough. If there is any other questions you have, feel free to ask.


4) The 44" x 44" Panels cover the entire Ceiling. You can look at My renders of my theater on a previous page of this thread for more details.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Glad to see you have gotten back to work on at least some part of your theater!


I have a friend who is not a member of the forum (still don't get that part) but is following this thread with much interest as he will be building a theater. He is signing papers today to switch from his construction loan to a standard home loan and will know how fast he can start working on the theater based on how much money they have left over (don't have a final number yet).


----------



## jbhungvt

thanks Ruben for the update/answers.


So I take it that if you don't have access to the ceiling above via attic etc, then the fiber ceiling is normally done after the ceiling drywall goes up.


I actually went back to revisit your render again, man that's beautiful. It's been awhile since I last look at it and forgot that it's this thread. Been through so many HT construction threads that I don't know whom belong to whom. The coffered/beamed ceiling looks cool but seems too complicated to do so my ceiling probably wouldn't be coffered/beamed.


The masonite board you use, is that normally available at HD or Lowes? I guess you could use some other boards besides the masonite?


So it's a drop ceiling of some kind to put up the fiber ceiling afterwards. Now why the 2" dropped? Is it because the mechanism to hold the masonite board is about 2"? I don't know how to install drop ceiling, so when you get to that stage and if you don't mind posting some pictures on how to do it would be really helpful.


thanks again.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Thanks, we all had the jitters from the DIY withdrawl. Looks great can't wait to see all the panels in formation.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I take it that if you don't have access to the ceiling above via attic etc, then the fiber ceiling is normally done after the ceiling drywall goes up.



Correct.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The coffered/beamed ceiling looks cool but seems too complicated to do so my ceiling probably wouldn't be coffered/beamed.



I may not do the Coffered ceiling if the panels look real seamless like I want them to.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The masonite board you use, is that normally available at HD or Lowes? I guess you could use some other boards besides the masonite?.



Its a common board at Lowes and Home Depot. I used it because it is the stiffest, straightest and Smoothest 1/4" board you can get. Its pretty much pegboard without the holes in it. You can use whatever you want, its all about what the builder wants to use an the results you end up with.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So it's a drop ceiling of some kind to put up the fiber ceiling afterwards. Now why the 2" dropped? Is it because the mechanism to hold the masonite board is about 2"? I don't know how to install drop ceiling, so when you get to that stage and if you don't mind posting some pictures on how to do it would be really helpful.



We dropped it 2" because the Ceiling is getting 1"x2" furring Strips screwed in and the back of the Panels are getting 1"x2" framing. We will Staple Industrial Velcro to the back of the entire Panels Framing and Staple Velcro to the furring strips to hang them. We might Even use a hook and Ring sytem to hang them, depends on how the velcro proves.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Glad to see you have gotten back to work on at least some part of your theater!
> 
> 
> I have a friend who is not a member of the forum (still don't get that part) but is following this thread with much interest as he will be building a theater. He is signing papers today to switch from his construction loan to a standard home loan and will know how fast he can start working on the theater based on how much money they have left over (don't have a final number yet).



Yeah, it cooled down a bit out here so I worked outside these past 2 days.


Hopefully my thread helps your friend out a bit, Like every other thread here has helped me Out. I really want to see this star ceiling in action, this thing is just too cool!


----------



## SmX

I also wanted to add to this about the Fiber Star Panels. We are going to be doing random shooting stars as well. They run off another LED device and a separate fibers as well.


I will post more pictures once I add those shooting stars.


----------



## jbhungvt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also wanted to add to this about the Fiber Star Panels. We are going to be doing random shooting stars as well. They run off another LED device and a separate fibers as well.
> 
> 
> I will post more pictures once I add those shooting stars.



Please do post lots of pictures.


Also, please post pictures of how you're attaching the fiber panels to the ceilings. I'll be interested how the panels turn out, i.e seamless or not.


----------



## alexsmith2k

Can I ask... what program did you use to design your whole theatre?


Plus congrats on the acheivement so far, this is the sort of quality I want to build mine to...the best!


Also very detailed pitctures and explainations, iv been watching since not long after you started the post and can't wait to see the final result!


Well done!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexsmith2k* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I ask... what program did you use to design your whole theatre?
> 
> 
> Plus congrats on the acheivement so far, this is the sort of quality I want to build mine to...the best!
> 
> 
> Also very detailed pitctures and explainations, iv been watching since not long after you started the post and can't wait to see the final result!
> 
> 
> Well done!!



Thanks!


I did the rough layout (first picture in this thread) with Photoshop doing everything to full scale. The Full color Renders you See 4 pages or so into my thread were done by Chirpie.


----------



## CPanther95




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One more point on the whole DirecTV thing. It is my assumption (and only that at this time) that once the rollout of MPEG-4 is complete, they will use the additional bandwidth that was being used for the NYC and L.A. HD locals to add more of the other HD networks such as TNT, USA, Encore....
> 
> 
> Once again, it is my assumption only and if it does happen as I am guessing, it will be a while since they have to do the full roll-out first.



Don't hold your breath for that to happen - the NY & LA locals will remain on MPEG2 (along with the MPEG4 feeds being added next month) for a while in order to service all the DNS customers nationally.


Sandman - Great job on the theater; even better job of documenting and giving us a great thread to follow.


Kudos.


----------



## smullen

Awsome work...


I check this thead atleast twice a day for updates....


----------



## alexsmith2k

Why not just subscribe to it so you receive an email whenever anyone posts on it !


Would save you a lot of looking!


Nice theatre btw, very impressive


It has been very useful trying to design my own, I must say I like the drywalling it makes it so easy to run cables etc etc, we in britain are obsessed with bricks though not so easy to thread cables through!


----------



## SmX

Here are some Updates...


Here is the method we used to run the fibers to the back of each panel. This method was much cleaner looking on the back (even though no one will ever see them).











Here is a Shot of the Front Light Tray. You can see the Star Panels Started going up. Also, Notice the Bass absorbtion in the Front Soffit. The Gap Between the Front Light Tray and Front Soffit is for the Automated Curtain Track (it is an 8" Gap).











Here is the Side Soffit (without Light Tray). Notice the bass absorbtion in there as well.












Here are 3 Panels up on the ceiling. Notice the Furring strips we used to hang them. 1"x 4"s and 1"x2"s. We used a Brad nailer to tack the Panels to the furring strips. The nails are completely invisable with the lights on. The panels are almost seamless with the lights on. They are completely seamless under Low light. You will also notice, we applied the GoM Fabric to the Side of the Soffit.


Side Shot










From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers Off)










Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers ON)










Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights OFF, Fibers ON)










Stay Tuned!


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


Great job! Can't wait to see the end result. Where are you planning on putting the light boxes? I guess you're somewhat limited on the length of the fiber runs? How long are those runs?


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Great job! Can't wait to see the end result. Where are you planning on putting the light boxes? I guess you're somewhat limited on the length of the fiber runs? How long are those runs?
> 
> 
> Bud




Thanks!


The Light Boxes Go in the top of the 2 side columns. The front Left Column has 1 light Box that controls 6 panels and the rear left Column has another light Box that controls the other 6 panels.


Wow I just noticed, This is My 201 post on AVS and its in the 201st Post in my thread. How wierd is that?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I guess you're somewhat limited on the length of the fiber runs? How long are those runs?
> 
> 
> Bud



The Cable runs range from 9 feet to 19 feet on each panel.


----------



## chrismd77

those star panels are the coolest thing I have seen in a while







Keep up the good work.


CD


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


Great job on the star panel. I'm planning to do the same thing but have it a 3-4 inches from the ceiling with a glow above it. I can now SHOW my wife what it looks like. This should seal the WAF deal







Thanks!!


Steve


----------



## jbhungvt

Great looking fiber ceiling.


I forgot to ask you something last time. Are you planning on putting recessed lighting in the ceiling? If not, how does the room look with a dark ceiling in the day time?


thanks


----------



## Bucko521

Do you have an update to your HT project?


----------



## NightSkyMurals

I saw what you did in your home theater and was very impressed. What I like about fiber optics is the fact that they are visible when there is light in the room.


I own Night sky Murals and what I do needs a very dark room. I have even suggested that people do what you have done when I knew that their room wouldn't ever get dark enough to appreciate the murals that I paint.


Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I was impressed with your work.


Jeff Stewart

Night Sky Murals

The Best Universe on the Planet!


PS... I am going to attach a picture of a room that we did in a media room for anyone that is interested in seeing what we do too. It is a dark picture on some screens. If it is on your... try to lighten your screen. The only thing that it doesn't show in the picture is the Milky Way.


----------



## SVonhof

So, Jeff, how does your system work? Is is reflective paint or glo-in-the-dark paint?


----------



## chinadog

Looks nice. What does a mural cost for some thing like like a 9x12x9 ceiling? Also, hom much light is needed to "charge" the stars? HT rooms tend to be pretty dark, in fact, I just drywalled over the windows, so it won'd get hardly any light during the day, just pre-movie.


Bud


----------



## Test_Engineer

Not sure I like your choice of colors(red/black), BUT I absolutely LOVE the way your HT is turning out! You have some really great ideas, and I will definatley use this thread when the construction starts on my new home. Thanks for sharing...keep up the great work!


----------



## SmX

I keep getting questions by email and PMs from people asking me to explain in more detail how to Build these star Panels, so I'm going to try this one more time (with Some New additional pictures).


I will also show you how I did the shooting stars in random sections of the Panels as well.


First, Measure your ceiling. Then go to http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Ceiling.htm and give them your measurements so they can hook you up with the Fibers and Light Boxes to build your Fiber optic ceiling.


I wanted all my panels to be fairly easy to put up and be square so I made them 44" x 44" to fit 12 panels on my ceiling (3 across and 4 from front to back).


For my size Panels, I could get 2 Panels out of one sheet of 4' x 8' x 1/4" Masonite Board. So I bought 6 Sheets of 4' x 8' Masonite Board and had Home Depot cut them to size. So now I have 12 44" x 44" x 1/4" Masonite boards.


We then Marked out a Grid with 11" x 11" Squares. This grid is to help place holes for Stars. You really dont want to do more than 4 holes per square Foot to keep it looking realistic.


See the Masonite board with the Grid and Black dots that represent star placement below...











Next Drill your holes where you marked your stars using a 1/16" drill Bit. We ordered fiber cable that has 50 Fibers in the Cable, so each panel ended up having 50 stars to limit 1 Fiber cable per panel for ease.


Next, we framed out the panels using 1" x 2"s to make the panels more sturdy and to have something to staple the Fabric to. We used 3/4" Staples to attach the Masonite Board to the Framing. We set the air gun so the staples inset a little deeper so they do not stick out and show through the fabric.


Notice the Framing around the edges of the Panels in the Picture below (Ignore the Fibers in this Picture for Now)...











Next, We pre-cut 12 50" x 50" pieces of Black GoM Fabric to have ready to Wrap the panels. We then Sprayed a light coat of 3M #80 Spray Adhesive to the First Panel and then Stretched the GoM Fabric over the Top of it and smoothed it out by hand. We then pulled the fabric tighly and began stapling with 1/2" staples. Each panel used about 4 refills of staples.


Here is the Wrapped panel (we did 12 of these panels).











Next we figured and measured our fiber cable runs and Pre-cut all our fiber cable and labled them. We then cut about 48" of the sleeve off each cable to route each fiber to each hole.











Then we Stapled the Cable to the framing of the Panel to prevent it from pulling fibers out of the holes (the 3 other cables you see stapled are for the Shooting Star, but we will get to that later)...


----------



## SmX

Next you feed your fibers through your holes. Since the Panel is already wrapped with fabric, it's best to twist the fiber as you feed it through the hole to help break through the fabric. Its also easier and faster to have someone on the other Side of the Panel to pull the fiber all the way through as you feed the fibers through.


When your done feeding all your fibers through, you will end up with something like this...


The Back Side...











The Front Side...











Next, Hot Glue your Fibers to the back of your Panel. I like to use a small glue gun set on low heat to do this...











Once all your fibers are glued In place, you can then begin clipping them off on the Fabric side using standard Nail Clippers. You Can make some Fibers Longer than others to get a brighter looking star (instead of doubling up fibers to get brighter Stars)...











Almost Done Clipping...











Now Hook it up to your light box and wallah....











Now to do a shooting star...

http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/ makes an LED Device that can program Shooting Stars, Fireworks, etc. Its a little over $200.00. What you do is buy some 8 Strand Fiber cable and Mark your shooting star placement on your panel using a Ruler and making each hole 1" apart from each other. I did 24 Holes and used 3 - 8 Strand fiber cables to help identify which fiber goes where...


(Notice the 3 thinner cables with 8 fibers coming out of each of them, this is my shooting star on this panel)...











Here is the other side of the panel before clipping the Shooting Star Fibers...











Here is the Fibers Clipped. They Range from 1/4" on one end to just below the fabric on the other to give the burning out effect.











So Hopefully this helps people understand how to do this a little better Now...


Enjoy!

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great looking fiber ceiling.
> 
> 
> I forgot to ask you something last time. Are you planning on putting recessed lighting in the ceiling? If not, how does the room look with a dark ceiling in the day time?
> 
> 
> thanks



No Recessed Lighting In the Starfield. The Recessed lighting will be in the Soffits around the room. The Room is Pitch Black in the Daytime (No Windows in this Room).


Ruben


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Ruben - was never interested in doing one of these until I saw your step-by-step details. Maybe not for a future HT, but may appear in my daughter's room one day. Thanks, and nice work as always.


----------



## SmX

Here is the FabricMate System I was thinking of Going with. Its a Decision Between this and Stapled Framed Panels for Me. I threw together a Sloppy Fast Sample to show it.


----------



## suffolk112000

Considering all of the staples I had to put in my theater... it looks awesome.










Craig


----------



## MaximAvs

Sandman...


Hey, that FabricMAte System looks pretty good!! Where did you pick yours up, and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking?!


Sean


----------



## hvn4179

That's give me an idea of accomplishing the same thing by using the screen repair kit (sold at HD in the window section) that uses the same technique of pressing the screen material into the frame slot and secure it by the rubber chord. In this case, I should make a 1/8" center cut to a 1x1 stud and jam the fabric into the cut using the roller. Will it fly?


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hvn4179* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's give me an idea of accomplishing the same thing by using the screen repair kit (sold at HD in the window section) that uses the same technique of pressing the screen material into the frame slot and secure it by the rubber chord. In this case, I should make a 1/8" center cut to a 1x1 stud and jam the fabric into the cut using the roller. Will it fly?



The stuff that Sandman is using is shown a little better in the early pages of this post and it will grab the fabric pretty well. If you just make a simple slot, you will also have to use the rubber cord to get it to stay...


That is my opinion anyway.


----------



## thaxx

I have one more question about the star panels.


If you put up triple Sheetrock on your ceiling to prevent reverb, won't the Masonite Board reintroduce reberb in the room?

Thanks


----------



## bpape

The triple drywall was not for reverb control. It was to help stop sound transmission to the rest of the home by making the ceiling much more massive. The masonite will not reflect any more than the drywall. If anything - it will give a little bit. Plus, some of the areas are actually 703 made to look like the rest so that he's hitting the ceiling reflection points.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thaxx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have one more question about the star panels.
> 
> 
> If you put up triple Sheetrock on your ceiling to prevent reverb, won't the Masonite Board reintroduce reberb in the room?
> 
> Thanks



Like BPape Said, the Ceiling is treated to take care of the reflection points. The Ceiling and Light Trays are now finished and look awesome! The Light Trays/Soffits just need to be Paper Faced and Covered with the GoM now.


Pictures coming soon.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximAvs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman...
> 
> 
> Hey, that FabricMAte System looks pretty good!! Where did you pick yours up, and how much was it, if you don't mind me asking?!
> 
> 
> Sean



Fabricmate.com is where the track system is from. THey Charge $2.95 a foot for Small orders and the Price Drops to $2.50 a foot when you buy 200 Feet or More.


----------



## SmX

Here are some Pictures of the Completed Star Ceiling and Light trays as promised. All the Wires and Cables will be all organized and Stapled down as soon as the Columns are ready to go up, It's a bit messy now










Here is a shot from the rear left corner of the theater.

THis Picture is with all the work lights on in the Theater. I took this shot to show how the seams on the panels look when full lighting is on. The Seams are completely invisable under Low light and no light. We may still do a small Coffered look to cover the Seams and to give the room more of a Classy look.

The Angle is kind of funky due to the Wide Angle Lens I was using..











Here is the Same Shot with the Lights off...











Here is a shot from the Side Door of the Theater walking in...


Lights On...











Lights Off...











Here is a shot of the Front of the Theater above the Stage with the Lights On..











Here is a closer shot of the 2 light boxes that control the Ceiling. They will be hidden inside the Columns that will be on that Wall there...











If anyone is interested, I have a good amount of Fiber Left from this job and would sell it at a discounted price. PM me if interested.


Ruben


----------



## thaxx

What a great job, I personally think it looks great without the coffered ceiling.


----------



## outfitter

My first thought when you had mentioned that you were going to do this was, "What a great idea, too bad it probably won't turn out that great."


Man, was I wrong! That looks incredible! I agree with thaxx, originally I would have voted for the coffered ceiling, but even with the lights on, it looks great.


Way to go!


----------



## ebr

Very nice job, Sandman. How much light does that put in the room when only the stars are on?


----------



## jbhungvt

I can't wait until you put up the coffered ceiling. I think it'll look stunning with the beams which will cover the seams.


If you don't have recessed lighting in the ceilings, are you mainly using the wall sconces lighting in the day time? Is that enough lighting?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very nice job, Sandman. How much light does that put in the room when only the stars are on?



Thanks,


Not Really Much. But even so, the Light Boxes are dimmable so when a movie is playing we can dim the Stars with the Grafik Eye. We ran a dedicated line to those light boxes to control them. We actually ran dedicated lines to all the Different Lights and Outlets we want to control separately with the Grafik Eye.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jbhungvt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't wait until you put up the coffered ceiling. I think it'll look stunning with the beams which will cover the seams.
> 
> 
> If you don't have recessed lighting in the ceilings, are you mainly using the wall sconces lighting in the day time? Is that enough lighting?



Thanks,


Keep in Mind, this is a Movie Theater only and will be only used for Watching movies During the Day & Night and occaisonal Music Listening as well. There is going to be 11 35watt Downlights in the Soffits plus Possibly Sconces on the Columns (If I decide I like that look) also Light in the Light Tray that wraps the whole starfield ceiling.


There will be enough Lighting to clean up, thats for sure. Hey If not, I can always Install a big White 4 Bulb Flourescent Light fixture in the Middle of the Starfield Ceiling and that should handle the job.










Ruben


----------



## thaxx

Did you decide to fasten the panels with the commercial Velcro?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thaxx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you decide to fasten the panels with the commercial Velcro?



We used a brad nailer with finishing nails to secure them to the Furring strips on the Ceiling. The Nails are invisable and I cant even find them with all the work lights on.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *outfitter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My first thought when you had mentioned that you were going to do this was, "What a great idea, too bad it probably won't turn out that great."
> 
> 
> Man, was I wrong! That looks incredible! I agree with thaxx, originally I would have voted for the coffered ceiling, but even with the lights on, it looks great.
> 
> 
> Way to go!




Me Too, When I first Started Building these panels I had no idea what to expect. But I figured if it doesn't work Out, I can always just trash the Idea and lose some money.


But Man, let me tell you, I'm So Happy I stuck with it and it worked out. It is absolutely breath Taking when you walk in the room with the Lights out and the Stars on. There is even shooting stars I set up which I tried Out that make it even more Realistic! The stars also have a slight Twinkle so its not just a bunch of Stars with no life. This will Definately be one of the Main attractions of the Theater and talk of town that's for Sure.


Ruben


----------



## sonicboom

Not only does it look great (and I'm sure it's much better in person with the live twinkle), but it gives your theater a nice open look.


Don't ruin it with a coffered ceiling.


----------



## exipnos

Hi there,


Sorry to highjack the thread but I saw in some magazine that ikea had an outdoor lamp that uses fibre optics. I thought it might be useful for a cheap alternative to make a star celing. I have not found it on the ikea site but found some on ebay.


Here is some listings that describe the lamp.

http://cgi.*********/IKEA-SKINA-PATH...QQcmdZViewItem 


I was thinking of using one bundle per panel and since this set comes with 10 bundles it means that you can do a very cheap star celing. Each bundle contains a light unit too. Only drawback I see is that you don't get any twinkle effect. But if this light is dimmable then you could set up some programming in your graphic eye controller for some similar cool effects.


Could this work?


Cheers,


Exipnos


----------



## exipnos

funny I can't seem to put in the link for the ebay listings. Maybe there is a policy to prevent this? In any case either replace the *** in the link with ebay com or do some ebay searches for IKEA Skina fibre and you will see some sellers.


Cheers,


Exipnos


----------



## bpape

Yes. There is a policy. Too many spammers were putting links to their auctions in threads.


----------



## exipnos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes. There is a policy. Too many spammers were putting links to their auctions in threads.



Thats cool. I''m not the seller.


There is not a lot of info about the lenght of the optical cable but it appears that there are three different lengths in each bundle. Lets say you use about 2-3 bundles per panel the total cost for a similar size as sandman might be something like 3 or 4 times 17$. Thats quite cool if it works.


Im not in the US so I can't try it out for now. If somebody is willing to try please let us know how it went. Okay end of my thread jacking. Back to sandmans amazing build.


Cheers,


Exipnos


----------



## Ktulu_1

Ruben, the ceiling looks awesome. I'm curious to see how the seems look with the rope light in the light try shining up on them.


----------



## SmX

Saturday we will be Veneering the Light Trays Front and Bottom. Going to Stain some Oak and Maple and see what I like Better. I will Post some pictures after the Veneering is done.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well I won my Projector Today on eBay.

I got a brand new Factory sealed Optoma H79 for $4k from a authorized Optoma Dealer.


Saved like $900.00 from what they sell for at a good price.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Welcome to the 79 club!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Welcome to the 79 club!



Thanks, Very Happy to be Part of it


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, Very Happy to be Part of it



Repeat after me, do NOT hook that MOFO up until the very last minute! 


Congrats on the win!


----------



## jbhungvt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Saturday we will be Veneering the Light Trays Front and Bottom. Going to Stain some Oak and Maple and see what I like Better. I will Post some pictures after the Veneering is done.
> 
> 
> Ruben



You're a man of many talents. Keep up all the great work and like always, take many pictures


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Repeat after me, do NOT hook that MOFO up until the very last minute!
> 
> 
> Congrats on the win!



Yes, I know that is the Biggest Mistake of HT.

My Optoma is coming UPS Ground from NY and It will take about a week to get to me. I plan on having my theater room Done by then. I still need to get a Screen and I am still doing research on that. I am also still waiting on my Equipment Rack to arrive as well. Since I allocated some money to pay a couple guys to finish up the theater due to my hectic work schedule, there should be no reason for it not to be ready in time.


Also there was no way in the World I could pass up an opportunity to own the Best DLP Projector for a Discounted price. I was just about to drop $4,899.00 plus Tax plus Shipping on One, until I saw this auction at the final stage. I was willing to go up to $4,500 on the auction, but it stopped at $4k (lucky me).


----------



## SmX

What got done today?


Well today we masked off the whole Star Ceiling and Prepped the Soffits/Light Trays for the Veneer. That pretty Much took 3 hours to smooth everything down and putty the screw Holes.


Monday we will begin the Veneering first Thing, then Stain, then Lacquer Coating. I decided to go with Red Oak for the Veneer. It seemed to have the Best Grain for What I wanted. We shot a Nice Red Stain on a Few Veneer Samples and Red Oak showed the Grain the Best through the Stain. This High Gloss Lacquer will bring the Red out lovely.


For Those you want to know, we are using a Pre-Mixed Stain, and then a High Gloss Lacquer Coating that will get about 3 - 4 Coats with Sanding. The Stain is a Spray on with no wipe off Stain. The Lacquer gets Sprayed too.


We will be using the same process for the Columns as well.


Ruben


----------



## bpape

Not to be a wet rag but I'd reconsider the high gloss finish. You've spent a lot of time and money to make this a good looking and performing place. I'd hate to see you get a bunch of nasty light reflections off those glossy elements that would compromise the screen image.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Monday we will begin the Veneering first Thing, then Stain, then Lacquer Coating. I decided to go with Red Oak for the Veneer.



Ruben,


I was planning to build my columns out of MDF and then veneer them also. Any pictures of the actual veneering process would be very appreciated!


Thanks,


Steve


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Chirpie:


I resemble that remark. I've got 500 hours on my 79 and my theater isn't done yet.


----------



## SmX

Hey Friends, I'm gonna need your help here. I decided to do a Dark Carpet (Black or Dark Grey) based on what you guys said earlier in this thread here. Problem is, I went to the Carpet store today to look at carpets and can't figure out if I should go with a Black with a Grey Pattern or an all Black with a Black Raised Pattern (See Samples below).


This Place is pretty expensive (Charging $4.85 a SQUARE FOOT to $5.85 a SQUARE FOOT). Yes I said a Square Foot Above. The Carpets I always looked at in the Past were priced by Square Yards.


This is what I brought home today...


This comes in Black










This comes in Black (Same as above You See the Pattern Better)










This is Black with Brownish/Goldish Lines (Also Comes in Dark Grey with Light Grey Lines)










This is Black with a Grey Pattern










This is the same as above


----------



## bpape

I vote for the black with grey.


All black carpet looks nice - when it's clean - which is for about 15 minutes after you vacuum it...


----------



## swithey

I like the 1st one best also (interesting pattern). However, with dirt and lint (as bpape mentioned), it may not be the best choice. With that in mind, the 2nd one may be a good alternative. Has a hint of brightness to break up a single color pallet.


Steve


----------



## SVonhof

The last one looks like a tire pattern.


I would go for the second chioce, based on your couch colors, since the brown looks more red than anything. Not as bright as your recliners, but still the same idea. That may just be the lighting with the camera, but in your theater, nobody is really going to notice the brown is not the same red as the chairs.


----------



## MaximAvs

I like the Black Brownish with gold lines. It does come off as a little red, which it perfect for a theater.


I like the first textured carpet, but I think that in solid black would be a nightmare to keep clean, not to mention getting every last peice of popcorn out of it!


Sean


----------



## SmX

Thanks Guys, for Helping me out.


Actually That Carpet you think is a Bronish Red is an extremely Deep Black with Brown Lines. The Scan I did on my Scanner messed the colors up on it. I really Love the Black Carpet with the brown Lines as well. I was thinking about it for a month







I just was real worried about it not matching the Red & Black Theme I am Doing. I went as far as taking a red Sharpie marker and tried to color in the Gold Lines on the Sample I have. It just came out to dark. I must say, The carpet sample looks awesome next to the theater chairs. I wish I could Special order it with Red Lines or Grey Lines at Least.


They are charging $4.84 a Square Foot for that and that's gonna end up costing about $1,500.00 to do my 300 SQF Room. I figured for that much money, I should be getting a more elegant type carpet.


What do you think?


Any online carpet retailers I should check out first before making the commitment?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman:


Look in the yellow pages for places that carry a LARGE selection of commercial carpets, look for the "graphic loop" style. You'll find a little more pronounced patterns and prices around $2.5 to $3 sq ft.


Having said that I haven't picked a pattern yet.


----------



## radm1f

Sandman, this is an incredible thread. Thank you for your efforts. I think you could add some more content and publish this thread as a booklet of "How I did my DIY HT" I know I'd buy it.


I may be getting ahead of the game but was wondering how you were planning to tune your room. Are you going to hire an acoustic engineer (? $), or dB meter/MIC with spectrum analyzer/ freq response software, or a proprietary product like the Audyssey from Texas Instruments (DENON) type thing?


Thanks,


Mehran


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radm1f* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, this is an incredible thread. Thank you for your efforts. I think you could add some more content and publish this thread as a booklet of "How I did my DIY HT" I know I'd buy it.
> 
> 
> I may be getting ahead of the game but was wondering how you were planning to tune your room. Are you going to hire an acoustic engineer (? $), or dB meter/MIC with spectrum analyzer/ freq response software, or a proprietary product like the Audyssey from Texas Instruments (DENON) type thing?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mehran



Thanks for your words.


I will Analyze the Room with some software and a laptop. I will first see If I can tune it properly with the help of BPape. If that doesn't work correctly I will bring someone in to do it locally.


----------



## reaper

Did I miss the final renders? Let's see them... before he finishes the room


----------



## hvn4179




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For Those you want to know, we are using a Pre-Mixed Stain, and then a High Gloss Lacquer Coating that will get about 3 - 4 Coats with Sanding. The Stain is a Spray on with no wipe off Stain. The Lacquer gets Sprayed too.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I really want to know how this stain applies and where to buy it. Is it available at HD or Lowes? It seems a much simpler approach than the conventional wipe off style. TIA.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to be a wet rag but I'd reconsider the high gloss finish. You've spent a lot of time and money to make this a good looking and performing place. I'd hate to see you get a bunch of nasty light reflections off those glossy elements that would compromise the screen image.



But man, bpape, it looks so freakin' cool! ^_^ (Speaking as a biased person who laqured up his bottom half columns as much as he could stand it.) Let's not forget all the times he'll just recline back in those chairs and listen to some multi-channel music... then it's all about the visuals of the room.


----------



## bpape

Understand. I agree that it would look really sharp.


His design goals are primarily for HT and a very little bit of music. In any case, if the veneer is nice and it's stained nicely, IMO you don't need the gloss. Wood is gorgeous all by itself. A nice satin urethene would do nicely.


----------



## SmX

Well the Veneering of the Light Tray/Soffit got finished up today. Took about 6 hours with One Guy. Basically we layed out all the Veneer pieces and Matched the Grain for But pieces as clos as possible before applying the Contact Cement.


First About the Veneer, it is a Paper Backed Oak Veneer. We used paper back because it is very flexible without cracking. It's a little bit more money, but it is much easier to work with opposed to non backed veneer.


First we smoothed out the entire MDF, made sure all Screws were counter sinked, filled up screw holes with wood putty, Sanded the whole light tray down to make sure it was all smooth.


Next Applied the veneer. The Glue to apply the veneer is a Special Contact cement for veneers. We first shot the glue on the first piece of Veneer with a spray gun. Then rolled the glue out with a roller to make it smoother. Then Shot the MDF with the glue and rolled it out as well. Then you let it sit for a few minutes and then apply the veneer to the MDF. We then used a special hard heavy roller to smooth the veneer out over the MDF. Then we Began the Second Piece.


There is a little trick to hide But Seams (where 2 veneer edges meet up with each other). You use a special glue and apply it to the crack of the Seam, let it dry a bit and then sand the seam in multiple directions with a corse sandpaper (like 100 Grit). What it does is forces the Saw dust your sanding off to fill up the Seam and blend in so it looks like one continuous piece of wood.


Once it gets coated/sealed you do not see the seam. You are going to see the Seams in my pictures below because we did not seal the Veneer yet.


Here are some pictures below, all we need to do now is a light final sanding of he Veneer to roughen it up a bit and then the sealing and Staining begins and the final clear coat finishes it.


Here are some flicks..


First off, these are some half rounds I am going to experiment with for possible Columns.










Here is what the Veneer looks like unapplied...











Here is the Veneer apllied to the light tray...


Front of the Theater...

(Good Thing we Covered the Ceiling First with Plastic)



















Back of the Theater...











Some Close ups...


Veneer wraps around the Light tray. 1 peice does theSide and bottom...










Close up of a Bottom corner...











Some other Shots...


----------



## SmX

Continued...


Here is the Sealer that goes on after we do the light sanding of the Veneer. This Goes on before the Stain, this basically makes sure your stain gets evenly applied so you dont have light and dark spots...











For those who want to know about the Stain that We are going to spray on, here it is...











The Staining begins tomorrow! Finally, we get to see some color brought in this room!










More Pictures tomorrow after the Staining is done. Stay Tuned!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hvn4179* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really want to know how this stain applies and where to buy it. Is it available at HD or Lowes? It seems a much simpler approach than the conventional wipe off style. TIA.



It's available at Specialty Stores. Try checking out their website for distributors in your area. I posted a picture of the Stain above. http://www.mlcampbell.com/


----------



## bpape

Dude,


You're absolutely coming up to do the finish work in MY room when I build my next one. That's going to look schweeet.


----------



## Gerry S

"Veneer wraps around the Light tray. 1 peice does the Side and bottom..."


Did you have to round the corner a bit to keep the veneer from cracking?


Reason I ask is when I veneered my subwoofer using paper-backed red oak, I had to round the corners to keep it from cracking.


It's coming along really nice Sandman - keep up the good work.


-Gerry


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you have to round the corner a bit to keep the veneer from cracking?
> 
> -Gerry



Thanks, Yes, we rounded off the corners a slight bit to Wrap them with one piece. If you look at the closeup shot of the light tray above, you will see the corner.


Ruben


----------



## jbhungvt

You definitely have the patience and skills. Can't wait to see the final product.


Keep up the good work


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


Thanks for the detail on the veneering. It looks great!


QUESTION -- is there a trick to getting (2) pieces to match up? Basically, one vertical piece matched to a horizontal piece (at 90deg) -- similar to what you did on the front curve but with no curve. In my situation, I will not be able to round the corners to use a single piece. I was planning to extend out a bit then trim with a sharp blade. Do I need to use any of that seam filler to help hide the seam a bit more?


Steve


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Thanks for the detail on the veneering. It looks great!
> 
> 
> QUESTION -- is there a trick to getting (2) pieces to match up? Basically, one vertical piece matched to a horizontal piece (at 90deg) -- similar to what you did on the front curve but with no curve. In my situation, I will not be able to round the corners to use a single piece. I was planning to extend out a bit then trim with a sharp blade. Do I need to use any of that seam filler to help hide the seam a bit more?
> 
> 
> Steve



The Seam filler helps out greatly. I recommend spending a few dollars to get it (like $5 a bottle). Matching up pieces is all in the Eye of the beholder. It's never going to match exactly, unless you get lucky. Just do your best and once it gets the Sealer and Stained it should be un noticable unless you are purposely looking for it.


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


Thanks for the advice!!


Steve


----------



## Rop

Ruben, what source do you use for veneer? What contact cement do you use? What's the name of the stuff you use for the seams? Do you use a router with a trim-bit for the edges? Or just a sharp knife?


Looks fabulous by the way! I've done some veneering. You make it look so easy, but I know it's not...


-Rob-


----------



## hvn4179




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's available at Specialty Stores. Try checking out their website for distributors in your area. I posted a picture of the Stain above. http://www.mlcampbell.com/



Thx for the info. Your work looks fabulous and becomes my inspiration. Great job!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, what source do you use for veneer? What contact cement do you use? What's the name of the stuff you use for the seams? Do you use a router with a trim-bit for the edges? Or just a sharp knife?
> 
> 
> Looks fabulous by the way! I've done some veneering. You make it look so easy, but I know it's not...
> 
> 
> -Rob-



Well I'm Out in South Florida so I get my Veneer from 2 Places pretty close to me.


My Favorite Place is

Specialty Supplies Inc.

3410 Park Central Blvd. North

Pompano Beach, Florida 33064 USA

Telephone: 1-866-344-6437
http://www.specialtysupplies.com 


They Stock all types of Veneers, Stains and Lots of cool building materials too.

A 4 x 8 Veneer sheet with paper baking is about $35.00 there. This is the place I get my Stain from as well.


Another Spot that stocks allot of cool Veneer and Stains I go to is...


Constantine's Wood Center of Florida Inc. is located at:

1040 E. Oakland Park Blvd.

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33334

Phone: 954 561 1716

Order Toll Free: 800 443 9667
http://www.constantines.com/ 


They are a Bit more expensive, but they sell smaller sheets of Veneer.


This is The Veneer Glue We Use...
http://www.constantines.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=43 


This is the Gap Filler Glue We use for Butt Joints...
http://www.constantines.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=34 


We use this Accelerator Spray to help speed up the drying process of the Glue in the Butt joints...
http://www.constantines.com/index.as...PROD&ProdID=39 


As far as Triming, Sometimes we use a trimming tool like this...
http://www.constantines.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=701 


And Some times a regular Utility knife.


----------



## SmX

Update...


Today we sanded down all the Veneer to prep it for the Sealer. We also built all 6 Columns today out of 3/4 MDF". They will be getting wrapped with matching Red Oak Veneer as well.


Pictures will come Soon.


----------



## SmX

Update...


Equipment Rack arrived Yesterday and I assembled it Last night.


The Optoma H-79 Projector Arrived today.


Still trying to decide on a screen.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Curious, How long did it take before you gave in to the urge to unpack the projector set it on something, connect it to a dvd player and shine it on one of the white walls in your house?


I think I lasted 20 minutes.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Curious, How long did it take before you gave in to the urge to unpack the projector set it on something, connect it to a dvd player and shine it on one of the white walls in your house?
> 
> 
> I think I lasted 20 minutes.



LOL,


Suprisingly, that hasn't crossed my mind yet










I may have to try it tonight, I have too many walls of glass in my home to try it during the day.


We'll See tonight


----------



## danr1707

I think that an OPEN HOUSE for all of Ruben's new friends in South Florida is needed around mid January.


Anybody else thinking this?


----------



## SmX

Well I hooked up the Projector this evening in our Dining Room and all I can say Is wow! The thing looked pretty damn nice out the Box even against my Textured Biege wall. I didn't even hook up the Pioneer DV-59avi DVD player, I just grabbed a Samsung I had from another room and Ran a DVI Cable. I threw on Finding Nemo.


I had the Lens 13' from the Wall and I had 120" Diagonal 16:9 Image. Then I realized the projector wasn't even on bright mode so I switched to bright mode and the picture popped out even more.


So it looks like I am going to be pretty damn happy with this projector. Also it is so quiet, it is unreal. I had to turn off everything in my house and put my ear next to it to hear the fan.


I am also happy it was not Biege like some people told me. The one I got was white. I wonder why they would make a Home Theater Projector White or Biege anyway? Seems like Black or Dark Grey should be the only colors to make them.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, that thing is quiet eh? Nice. My projector (now over 4 years old) is not quiet and it would be nice to have something that wasn't as loud. Of course, your new pj is also going to have the better black levels than mine which I would also like. Man, I hate how the equipment goes obsolete so fast!


----------



## Penniman

Excellent work!


Ruben, I am also covering my ceiling with black GOM. I was planning on stapling the GOM directly to the strapping - 3 widths of fabric covering a 13x23 room. My floors are hardwood and my ceilings are not sheetrocked to allow the insulation to act as absorbtion. Anyway, I was wondering if you thought a star ceiling would work for me. The trick is, I don't want a hard ceiling behind the GOM. Do you think I could glue the fiber points to sturdy cardboard and then pull them through the GOM to get the same effect?


Thanks for your very helpful thread!


Kip


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Penniman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Excellent work!
> 
> 
> Ruben, I am also covering my ceiling with black GOM. I was planning on stapling the GOM directly to the strapping - 3 widths of fabric covering a 13x23 room. My floors are hardwood and my ceilings are not sheetrocked to allow the insulation to act as absorbtion. Anyway, I was wondering if you thought a star ceiling would work for me. The trick is, I don't want a hard ceiling behind the GOM. Do you think I could glue the fiber points to sturdy cardboard and then pull them through the GOM to get the same effect?
> 
> 
> Thanks for your very helpful thread!
> 
> 
> Kip



Why don't you want a hard ceiling?


----------



## SmX

I tried contacting AVS today about ordering a screen but could not get through to anyone. I called a few times and left a message once. When I want to order something I like to get it done right away before I start changing my mind.


I thought I would try to give AVS a shot on pricing since BPape said they usually do discounts to AVS forum Members. But it looks like I may have to order from somewhere else.


----------



## Penniman

My floors are hardwood and my walls are sheetrocked. To improve acoustics, I'm leaving most of the ceiling open to act as broad-band absorbtion.


I'm just not a carpet guy.


Plus, the room is going to serve as a party room with wild dancing. No carpet, and no soft side walls allowed.


What do you think about the cardboard idea?


K.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Penniman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My floors are hardwood and my walls are sheetrocked. To improve acoustics, I'm leaving most of the ceiling open to act as broad-band absorbtion.
> 
> 
> I'm just not a carpet guy.
> 
> 
> Plus, the room is going to serve as a party room with wild dancing. No carpet, and no soft side walls allowed.
> 
> 
> What do you think about the cardboard idea?
> 
> 
> K.



I never heard of anyone putting cardboard on the Ceilings. What about wrapping some 703 stiff panels with GoM? That way your whole ceiling will absorb. You may want to consult with BPape about some ideas. He is consulting me on my room.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried contacting AVS today about ordering a screen but could not get through to anyone. I called a few times and left a message once. When I want to order something I like to get it done right away before I start changing my mind.
> 
> 
> I thought I would try to give AVS a shot on pricing since BPape said they usually do discounts to AVS forum Members. But it looks like I may have to order from somewhere else.



Ruben,


Contact Jason at AVS via email. He normally respondes quickly that way. His email is: [email protected] . Pricing on the DaLite material is pretty darn good. They also sell the Stewart material bulk (at nearly 4x the price of the DaLite). I'm planning to build a 110" screen and cost will be a little over $200 for the DaLite material. Of course you need to figure in the cost of the DIY frame (wood or metal) -- but that is not much. I have samples of just about everyone's screen material and plan to "test" them all out before I make a decision.


Good luck and keep up the great work on the HT.


BTW: BPape is helping me too







He's a real asset to this forum (and my HT construction). I recommend him to anyone building a HT.


Steve


----------



## HoMac

Sandman,


Your thread is like caffeine every morning. I am addicted. I am very impressed of your work and skills. I wish I could have these information was 1.5 years ago when I started my HT. One thing is certain, I save all your photos and descriptions in case if I build another one in the future. Keep the good work and feed us the caffeine.


-Mike


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Contact Jason at AVS via email. He normally respondes quickly that way. His email is: [email protected] . Pricing on the DaLite material is pretty darn good. They also sell the Stewart material bulk (at nearly 4x the price of the DaLite). I'm planning to build a 110" screen and cost will be a little over $200 for the DaLite material. Of course you need to figure in the cost of the DIY frame (wood or metal) -- but that is not much. I have samples of just about everyone's screen material and plan to "test" them all out before I make a decision.
> 
> 
> Good luck and keep up the great work on the HT.
> 
> 
> BTW: BPape is helping me too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's a real asset to this forum (and my HT construction). I recommend him to anyone building a HT.
> 
> 
> Steve



$200.00 for a 110"? That is Super Cheap! I'm doing a 133" 16:9 Perforated Screen. What would it cost me to just buy the Material? I need a High Contrast Perforated Material. Once you Do those tests Please Let me Know.


How do you get all the Samples? I have the Projector Set up in the Dining room and would love to see the Difference in the Samples.


Also, How big are the Samples? 12" x 12"?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HoMac* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> Your thread is like caffeine every morning. I am addicted. I am very impressed of your work and skills. I wish I could have these information was 1.5 years ago when I started my HT. One thing is certain, I save all your photos and descriptions in case if I build another one in the future. Keep the good work and feed us the caffeine.
> 
> 
> -Mike



Thanks, Glad to be your Caffeine in the Morning







I use to follow threads here too before I made the Jump into it. I was so motivated by all these guys here at AVS to Start my own.


The Caffeine should keep coming for at least another week, being that my helper messed his back up and had to take off till this Monday. So I will continue the updates on Monday (Hopefully) We would of been carpeting this Monday if it wasn't for his Back.


More to Come


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> $200.00 for a 110"? That is Super Cheap! I'm doing a 133" 16:9 Perforated Screen. What would it cost me to just buy the Material? I need a High Contrast Perforated Material. Once you Do those tests Please Let me Know.
> 
> 
> How do you get all the Samples? I have the Projector Set up in the Dining room and would love to see the Difference in the Samples.
> 
> 
> Also, How big are the Samples? 12" x 12"?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


It's easy to get samples, you just go to the manufacture website and request the samples of the material you are looking for. I have samples from the following: DaLite, Stewart, Carada and Dazian Fabrics. Unfortunately, I do not have any of the perforated material (however samples are available). You may have to wait a few weeks to get them in. Here are a few specifics:

*DaLite*
http://www.dalite.com 

Sample Size: 6" x 6"

Sales: Material only available (Jason Turk, [email protected] )

*Stewart*
http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/ 

Sample Size: 9" x 11"

Sales: Material only available (Jason Turk, [email protected] )

*Carada*
http://www.carada.com/ 

Sample Size: 11" x 14"

Sales: Cannot buy material only -- must buy entire screen (David Giles, [email protected] )

AVS Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=30 

*Dazian Fabrics* (not sure if they have a perforated material)
http://www.dazian.com/ 

Sample Size: 6" x 11"

Sales: Material Only available. Buy off ebay retailer

AVS Thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6208260 


Also, I will not be making a choice until January '06 -- so I know you'll be done way before that -- sorry










Steve


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, Glad to be your Caffeine in the Morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use to follow threads here too before I made the Jump into it. I was so motivated by all these guys here at AVS to Start my own.
> 
> 
> The Caffeine should keep coming for at least another week, being that my helper messed his back up and had to take off till this Monday. So I will continue the updates on Monday (Hopefully) We would of been carpeting this Monday if it wasn't for his Back.
> 
> 
> More to Come



Oh man, not the back! I've run into that problem in the second half of this year for the first time (at the tender age of 28) and I don't much like it. I've got an annular bulging disc in my lower back. It's pinching some nerves cutting off the feeling in my left leg. I don't much care for it. It's like having your leg asleep 24/7.


Tell him I feel for him. Ouch! ^_^;


----------



## ebr

Dazian doesn't have a "perforated" material, they have one better - a weave which some have tested to be basically acoustically transparent (look in the screens forum). The material is called Coated Celtic Cloth (you will see it referred to as CCC in the forums).


I got a sample from the a while back and plan to make my screen with it. However - I doubt it will be much more than 1.0 gain.


----------



## Gerry S

They actually do have a perf. But I am not sure if it's for home use what the cost is.


That said I plan to try out CCC.

dazian perf


----------



## SmX

Hey Folks,


I just want to let you know, I have 134 feet of 50 Strand Fiber Optic Cable Left that I am going to sell. I have one run of 122 feet and another Run of 12 feet left. So 134 Feet all together.


For those that dont know, This is the left over Fiber from my Fiber Optic Star Ceiling I did in my Theater a couple pages back in this thread. It is the EG-50 Cable and I paid $4.35 a Foot for it. This is where I bought it from....
http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Endglow.htm 


Make me a reasonable offer and it's yours! I have a Pay Pal account too if that makes it easier for you.


If anyone is interested in it please PM me.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys,


I need your help here. Today my worker came in for a couple hours to clean up and to finish screwing down the platform for the chairs. We were discussing the Veneering of the columns and He Thinks I should do a Verticle Grain. I was thinking a horizontal grain to match the Light trays which have the horizontal grain.


He feels it would look more natural if the Grain of the Veneer ran verticle on the columns.


So I told him to hold off till Monday, and I would get the opinion from my fellow AVS brothers.


What do you guys think?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## HTScotty

imo verticle would look more natural.


----------



## ebr

Definitely vertical. That's how real boards would look.


----------



## dllewel

I agree, verticle. The grain should run the length.


----------



## SVonhof

Verticle. Simple answer.


----------



## SmX

Ask for Help and you Shall Receive







Thanks Guys!


So I guess Horizontal it is







j/k


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Wood veneer finish looks most natural when the grain runs the way solid wood would look if the columns were constructed out of solid wood. Most always that means the long way. In this case another vote for vertical.


Could you imagine an oak tree big enough to have an 8ft wide plank so that you could run it horizontal? It would just look odd until you figured it out.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wood veneer finish looks most natural when the grain runs the way solid wood would look if the columns were constructed out of solid wood. Most always that means the long way. In this case another vote for vertical.
> 
> 
> Could you imagine an oak tree big enough to have an 8ft wide plank so that you could run it horizontal? It would just look odd until you figured it out.



Good Answer, Thanks!


The bottom of my columns are about 30" tall then there will be a 44" tall GoM for the Speaker (Martin Logan Script) then an 8" Wood Top. Here is a Quick to Size Drawing of the Columns and the Panels between them...


Light Tray on Top Runs Horizontal...


----------



## BFauska

Now the question is which way to do the 8" wooden strip at the top of the column? As far as real wood goes, 8" wide boards would make the grain run horizontal and match the headers, but a board the same width as the one used to do the bottom of the columns could be used to run vertical and match the bases. WHAT TO DO NOW?


I vote horizontal on top to match the headers.


Later,

Brian


----------



## SmX

I hooked up the Optoma H-79 in my Den Area and was able to put the projector 16 feet from the Wall to get my 135" Screen. So I snapped some pictures for you guys. The image is quite amazing right out the box. This is without any calibration to the projector. There is a slight green Overcast that will be calibrated out when I set this up in the theater. This is straight on My Textured wall (Knock down Finish) The Wall is a Bone White/Light Beige color.


I placed my Camera on top of the Projector and took the pictures. The Pictures are not as clear as they could be because I had to compress them down for the Web or they would of been real big files.


Also, this is using a $200 Samsung DVD player hooked up with DVI.


----------



## swithey

I was thinking about this last night and vote for vertical also










Steve


----------



## Gerry S

simulated wood grain:


----------



## bpape

I'd say make the strip on the top of the column the same as the bottom - vertical. That way it looks like 1 piece of wood with the black inserted. I just think it looks kind of odd the other way.


----------



## jbhungvt

I agree that vertical (for columns) will look more natural, even though i don't know anything about veneer etc.


I way I see it is, length wise (as in column), vertical, width wise, horizontal.


----------



## Gerry S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd say make the strip on the top of the column the same as the bottom - vertical. That way it looks like 1 piece of wood with the black inserted. I just think it looks kind of odd the other way.



Agreed - simulated wood grain changed!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Agreed - simulated wood grain changed!



Thanks for that Simulated Wood Grain Gerry S!


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I finished Assembling the Equipment Rack for the Theater. It's a Middle Atlantic Rack Model AX-SRX-43 that rolls out on a Service track and rotates so you can Wire it up (I have no access behind the rack room). It is a 43 space Rack.


Well anyway, after I get it all assembled I noticed it looked a bit tall. According to Middle Atlantic's Web Site, PDF & Assembly instructions, this rack is 75-1/4" Tall and needs to be 3" off the floor for the 31" service track. So 75-1/4" plus 3" is 78-1/4" from the Floor. I made my Rough Opening Exactly 80" Tall so the rack can fit right in there perfectly. Well guess what? The entire rack is 82-1/4" tall plus I need to add 3" to that for the Service Track. I somehow overlooked the Rough-in Measurements because they were not in my face like the 75-1/4" measurement was. So now I have to take it apart and cut the Rails down to size.





















Here is the Hottest thing for Christmas this Year. November 21st The Lines began and tents went up in front of Best Buy to get the 100 peices that came in for November 22 Release. Well once again Yesterday, The Tents went up in front of Best Buy waiting to get the 74 xBoxes they got In. They were sold out before the store even opened.


I gave up trying to get one after I exhausted all my Resources for 3 weeks and turned to eBay. I bid on a xBox 360 Premium System that was out in Canada and Won it for $711.00 plus Shipping. Well the guy I bought it from was really slow at responding after I Pay Paled him so I decided to bid on another System that I saw was local to me in Boca Raton. Well I ended up winning that one too for $750.00. Now all the Sudden the Guy in Canada says hey I'm ready to ship your xBox when I figured I would just cancel the Pay Pal to him since he Did not accept it yet, but he accepted the payment before I could cancel it. So anyway long story Short I ended up with 2 xBox 360 Premium Systems.











If anyone here absolutely needs an xBox 360 for his kid or personal, I am willing to do a trade or whatever. I really can't use 2 xBoxes and I may end up having to throw one on eBay. These things are impossible to buy at stores as you may already know.

Just PM me if interested.


By the way, People are selling empty shoe boxes with the words "xBox 360" written on them and people are buying them for $600.00 because they don't read the Description of the auction and get caught up in those last minute bids. Check this out...
http://www.2dorks.com/junk/xbox360.htm 


Ruben


----------



## chinadog

Geez, all I can do is shake my head, Amazing.


Bud


----------



## SmX

These are the lights I been Looking for. Due to my situation, I can not use a Big Can Light in my 5" Tall light trays to shoot Downward. I wanted to have a small MR-16 type light but not Low Voltage. Well when I was in Specialty the other day buying Veneer, I found some line voltage MR-16 type Lights with a swivel Bulb. The glass lens on them is a little loose and can be easily modified to prevent rattling. These lights have a nice spread of light and can flood your walls nicely.


These come in Swivel or Non Swivel and come in a bunch of Colors from Chrome to Black. Best of all they stock them at Specialty by my house.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben my turn to LOL, That rack story reminds me of when I tried to fit a 48 inch double door into a 50 inch wide rough opening. I had to get out the reciprocal saw and hack out a stud and reframe the door opening.


Anyway I'd be happy to swap you even my Sears reciprocal saw, handy plastic carry case and a hand full of metal cutting blades for one of those Xboxes.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben my turn to LOL, That rack story reminds me of when I tried to fit a 48 inch double door into a 50 inch wide rough opening. I had to get out the reciprocal saw and hack out a stud and reframe the door opening.
> 
> 
> Anyway I'd be happy to swap you even my Sears reciprocal saw, handy plastic carry case and a hand full of metal cutting blades for one of those Xboxes.



LOL, I have plenty of tools already. I use DeWalt anyway









I need to build a Shed for my tools now my garage is Gone










Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben:


YOU NEED TO BE REAL CAREFUL WITH THOSE LIGHTS. BE SURE THE AREA AROUND THEM IS TOTALLY OPEN and that they don't come any where close to that cotton batting . I'd use a a 12 inch saftey margin minimum.


I think I would enclose them in something non combustable just to be safe.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben:
> 
> 
> YOU NEED TO BE REAL CAREFUL WITH THOSE LIGHTS. BE SURE THE AREA AROUND THEM IS TOTALLY OPEN and that they don't come any where close to that cotton batting . I'd use a a 12 inch saftey margin minimum.
> 
> 
> I think I would enclose them in something non combustable just to be safe.



Thanks for the Tip. But these will be most likely going in my empty lght trays shooting down. There will be nothing near them to burn. The Light tray is 8" deep x 5" tall, more than enough space for ventilation. I can also put these in small cans I believe.


My trouble was, the height of 4" Line cans was a minimum of 6" tall and my light tray wall is 5 Inches tall and you would see the back of the cans and Wires sticking out.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I was on ebay last week and found that there are places that make LED replacements for the standard 12 volt halogen bulbs. If you got the 12v fixtures and went with the LED bulbs, you could probably save a lot of heat build-up...









Ebay item: 4426579429


There are also some GU10 bulbs that use LED's from the same guy, ebay item 6022441110


----------



## ebr

Hey Sandman - I tried looking back in the thread but couldn't find the answer - did you end up anchoring your stage to anything (walls or floor)?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I was on ebay last week and found that there are places that make LED replacements for the standard 12 volt halogen bulbs. If you got the 12v fixtures and went with the LED bulbs, you could probably save a lot of heat build-up...
> 
> 
> There are also some GU10 bulbs that use LED's from the same guy, ebay item 6022441110



Thanks SVonhof,


But I am tyring to stay away from Low voltage. The heat is not going to be an issue for me. These lights will probably never see full power anyway. But That is a pretty cool alternative for low voltage applications.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman - I tried looking back in the thread but couldn't find the answer - did you end up anchoring your stage to anything (walls or floor)?



Nope, I did not anchor the stage to anything. It has a 1/4" space between it and the walls around it. I used Foam on the Roll all around the Stage to prevent any possible knocking issues. Also used Foam on the roll under the Stage on all the joists.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

The 134' of Fiber Cable I had left has been sold.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Update... Columns


The good thing about My Thread is you get to see How Messy we are at Building. Don't let all those other Threads that show nice clean pre-constuction Pictures Fool you. They were all dirty like mine







They just cleaned up before taking the Pictures







. SandmanX shows you the Raw and Dirty Side










Well anyway, I feel the Columns may be a bit to big for the Room. They look great in the Renders but as you will see, they are a bit bigger in person. We still need to build out the Walls 2" to accomodate the Treatments, and right now the Columns are 12" x 17.5" against the Drywall. Once the 2" treatments go up, the Columns will look 10" x 17.5".


What do you guys think? Should I make them less Deep?


These are the After The Cleanup Shots


----------



## SmX




----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

I really like your thread because I'm learning a lot. But there are things that are giving me worries. Those are (a)building the airduct in the basement and (b) electrical. I'm weak in those areas. I have very small knowledge on it. Will I have an airduct in my basement once the house is built?


Question about your columns. What are the wires inside the columns used for?


Awesome HT construction btw!







Keep up the good work!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really like your thread because I'm learning a lot. But there are things that are giving me worries. Those are (a)building the airduct in the basement and (b) electrical. I'm weak in those areas. I have very small knowledge on it. Will I have an airduct in my basement once the house is built?
> 
> 
> Question about your columns. What are the wires inside the columns used for?
> 
> 
> Awesome HT construction btw!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep up the good work!!!



Cool!


All those wires are for Outlets, Lights & Speakers.


Ruben


----------



## Luke_Y

Ruben, I think that once the 2" treatments go up they will look good at 10". Don't start doubting your vision now.


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Hi Reuben,


I am in the process of building my second theater now and probably about the same as you and chinadog into it. I have built my columns as well but attached them to the wall and allowed an airgap between them and the riser/stage. It seemed to me that a lot of people were being careful to allow an airgap between the wall and riser and then attaching columns to the wall and riser in effect causing a short-circuit. How will your columns be attached? Do they come into contact with your riser?


I personally like the size of your columns mine are 12x12 before treatment which will reduce the appearance of them to 11x12.


Great work thus far, I love the ceiling.


I am going to need to post my own construction thread soon and stop lurking!


Rob


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rob_McArthur* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Reuben,
> 
> 
> I am in the process of building my second theater now and probably about the same as you and chinadog into it. I have built my columns as well but attached them to the wall and allowed an airgap between them and the riser/stage. It seemed to me that a lot of people were being careful to allow an airgap between the wall and riser and then attaching columns to the wall and riser in effect causing a short-circuit. How will your columns be attached? Do they come into contact with your riser?
> 
> 
> I personally like the size of your columns mine are 12x12 before treatment which will reduce the appearance of them to 11x12.
> 
> 
> Great work thus far, I love the ceiling.
> 
> 
> I am going to need to post my own construction thread soon and stop lurking!
> 
> 
> Rob



Wow, I never heard anything about that. Can you post me a Link of the Thread you read that in? I'm most likely gonna rip the Columns out and do them again anyways.


----------



## Rob_McArthur

This is just my own personal opinion based on the fact that I have always heard that you should not tie your riser and stage to the sidewalls. I noticed you had replied to someone that you left a 1/4 airgap between them. It just seemed to me that a lot of people would then fasten the columns to their walls and then rest them on their stage/risers which would allow a mechanical path for vibration from one to the other and a possible source of noise during heavy bass etc. My proscenium also does not touch my stage for the same reason. Maybe I'm just a little anal......ok I know I am. I have over a year of construction in my HT working about 5-6 nights a week, but I'm getting there!


Rob


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman, If you decide to redo the columns and make them less deep you could easily just run them through the table saw and cut off the back 1 1/2 inch (two passes) then reattach new supports. Much quicker then rebuilding.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, If you decide to redo the columns and make them less deep you could easily just run them through the table saw and cut off the back 1 1/2 inch (two passes) then reattach new supports. Much quicker then rebuilding.



I spoke to chirpie and Found out he used 12" x 18" columns in my theater for the renders. For some reason, they look much smaller in the Renders than in life in my theater.


Unfortunately they are Glued and Nailed good to the wall. So Basically they are gonna have to come out either easy or hard. Also, my dream was to do Half Round Columns originally, but I was never able to find them Locally in the Size I needed. So I just stuck to the Standard Square Columns. My Problem is I don't like to be Standard and I want to go the extra mile to get something I can enjoy forever. The Last thing I want is to sit in the Theater with Columns I did because it was the easy route.


So today I went to Specialty and found some 8" Quarter Rounds so we joined 2 of them together to get our 16" half Round. I built 2 of them to See what they are going to look like in the room before I decide to rip these columns down.


This is pretty much the look I always Liked and this is what I am trying to Achieve with the Panels and Columns except The Columns will be a little bigger in Red Oak Veneer Stained Red with Black/Stainless Steel Insets.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, while I applaud you for wanting to do things the way you want and not conform to some artificial standard, I have a question. Are you going to have your speakers in the columns? I had thought you were going to, until you started talking about making them half-rounds. Also, what you may want to do with the half-rounds is add some 2" wide strips to them basically to stand them off from the wall, so that when you add your 2" of wall treatment, you don't have to figure out how to fit that to the curve of the 16" round. Does that make any sense?

Here is an image:


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, while I applaud you for wanting to do things the way you want and not conform to some artificial standard, I have a question. Are you going to have your speakers in the columns? I had thought you were going to, until you started talking about making them half-rounds. Also, what you may want to do with the half-rounds is add some 2" wide strips to them basically to stand them off from the wall, so that when you add your 2" of wall treatment, you don't have to figure out how to fit that to the curve of the 16" round. Does that make any sense?
> 
> Here is an image:



Thanks for your concern SVonhof,


The Half rounds would sit on top of a 2" x 2" on the Drywall. The Speakers going in them are Either Martin Logan Scripts which are 44" tall x 10" wide x 6" deep. Or, I may do the Triad Inwall Surround Silvers for the Columns which are a little under 15" x 15" x 4" to not have such a big Grill. The Surrounds are still an varible option at this point.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

I didn't have time to go check out the ML Scripts, but just make sure that the shape of the speakers will not inhibit the use of them in the shape of the column:










Of course, this is probably not going to be an issue, but figured I would point this out to others for future, so they don't get stuck in a situation where the speakers don't fit right, since you have to take it all into consideration.


----------



## SmX

Here are the Quarter Rounds glued and Nailed together to complete the Half Round.

Our plans are to Bondo & Sand the Front Seam to smooth it out.

Then Veneer the Half Rounds and Router out the Grooves for the Insets. Then Stain,


----------



## SmX

Guys,

What columns do you guys think will look better in our theater?


I really need your help here once again. We Did a quick Column to try to see how the coumns flow with the room. I am stuck between the 2 now. The Round Columns look a little Small and may get lost in the Room, they are 16" Diameter. The Square columns feel to big.


I think the square columns feel to big to me because they are not finished and the room is not finished. I think the Round columns are looking Small because they are next to the Big Square Columns. I think both options will look good regardless once they get Stained and completed properly.


I need to get some help on this one because right now I am Stuck. What do you guys think?






















I made the Oak Red in Photoshop in the 2 pictures below. The is not the actual Stain Color.


----------



## Z06Racer

I love the round colums. I will be copying those


----------



## kingdome1964

no question, with out a doubt ROUND!

anyone can build a square and everyone does, ROUND!

for the love of god, ROUND










if you look at my album you can see I am a circle fan.
http://kingdome1964.myphotoalbum.com/albums.php


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Hi Reuben,


I vote for the square columns because I like balance and symmetry. The round columns are very nice but I feel they would be more suited to a room with more "round" in the room. Most of what I see in your is, like mine, very squared off ie. your soffits, riser, ceiling panels etc. If you had a curved face on your riser a curved ceiling dome and such maybe they would "fit" a little better in my opinion. I also noticed the picture you posted of the theater with round columns had a lot of "round" in it so I think it works. The square columns also come out further under the soffits and look like they are actually supporting the soffit.


Either way I'm sure it will look great!


Just my 1.5 cents.


Rob


----------



## SmX

Thanks Guys for your Responses. My Stage Front, The Soffit Above the Stage and Platform Front all has curves in them. So The Room isn't Completely Squared. But I understand what you mean.


The Typical Square Columns are the Easy way out for Me and the Rounds are not. I just never see Round Columns in Theaters and its a look I like. Also, when my theater gets finished and looks anything like my Renders, I will Still be happy. So either way it's a win, win situation for me. I just like to go the extra mile if it's worth it.


Thanks

Ruben


PS. for the people who wanted me to Post a Step by Step Veneering process, I took pictures and will post it tomorrow (or later today).


----------



## exipnos

I think definately round, especially if you don't like standard stuff. I have not seen renders of your square columns but these definately look amazing. Especially with the black lines.


One question though. How are you planning on dealing with the speaker issue? Will you cut a square area in the middle and put speaker cloth? That will change the look a bit but I'm sure it will look good anyway.


If you decide you want to redo the columns and round does not fit in your room, then take a look at these PeterS columns

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../big/ppuser/83 


They are not completely square but have an angled cut towards the front. I love them....


----------



## chinadog

I like the square, BUT its probably because are in the same picture of the round so the round looks out of place and I'm so used to seeing square. I think if you're doing fabric in sections as described that the round will really have a better impact though. With that said, I think that the round would grow on me. If you're trying to achieve that TK design you pointed to, the round will work nicely.


Bud


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


I like the round myself -- especially the hoizontal bands (which I think you said will be brushed metal inlays). It does look a little more challenging, but the overall look (I think) will be awesome.


One other guy on AVS did some round columns (not sure what his name is). Here is a pic of his HT. His are more rounded on the front with a deep square side.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, how about you leave room for the columns to be 16" wide and keep working on the room. You can then put in either the round or some 16" wide rectangular columns.


Also, if you are thinking the rounds are going to fade away into the walls, since they don't look as if they are supporting the soffits, why not do what I had shown in the left image that I posted on post #338? The columns will come out from the wall more once everything is complete that way.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Fading away into the walls is all a factor of difference in color and value (light versus dark) between the columns and the adjacent wall not the shape. The bigger the difference the more they stand out.


I'm curious where you are going to put the speakers in that thing. But I like the round.


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben...


I love the round columns! It breaks up and otherwise rectangular space with a little softness!


You really moving on your theater!! Keep the pics coming!!


Sean


----------



## SVonhof

Sean, I looked at the pics of your "Boom Boom Room". My first question is: Are you married?


The reason I ask is because of the pictures you have on your walls, since my wife would never let me put some nice art-work like that on the walls!


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sean, I looked at the pics of your "Boom Boom Room". My first question is: Are you married?
> 
> 
> The reason I ask is because of the pictures you have on your walls, since my wife would never let me put some nice art-work like that on the walls!



Sean,


I was thinking the same thing as Scott. Hey, when I was growing up, one of my neighbors (married) had pinups on the garage walls. So I guess the new 21st century garage is the 'ole HT


----------



## darkman2003

My two cents is for the square columns it gives the room more balance.



darkman.


----------



## MaximAvs

SV & swithey...


Yup, I'm married. Actually just got married in June!

It told the wife I wanted to build a Home theater and lounge and wanted a guy lounge. She thought it was a great idea, and she actually bought me the calander that the pictures came from. It was called "Silicone Valley"









The wife wouldn't approve any Playboy kind of pictures, but doesn't mind these ones at all.

Needless to say we don't have kids.


Sean


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all your responses Guys. So it looks like I will do what I really like and a majority of you guys like, the Rounds. Last night I moved them forward to stick out a little further than the Square columns and they looked perfectly sized for the room. It was the depth that was making them look so small. The width on the round columns are 16" and the Square columns widths are 17.5".


This is the Type of ideas I am looking at for doing on the columns...


TOP VIEW


----------



## HeyNow^

Scott,


I showed your pics to my wife a while back and we really love the tub/club chairs you have and have been looking to replicate your seating arrangement. Did you get the chairs locally?


Thanks, we both love your bar/lounge/cinema arrangement. We are doing the same.


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben...


For your last option, are you going to have to modify the columns!?


It seems the other 2 options are very similar.


Peronally, and going with an image in my head, I think the last option would be cleaner look without being busy. But the first 2 might be easier to install.


Sean


----------



## SmX

I'm Thinking Option 1 or 2. Reason why, is because I set one up and I love it. It gives me the round I want also has Square and I can run a black Wood Trim down the Sides of the Columns to break them up from the wall. Also it doesn't look so Small with the block on the Back and it makes it look like its really supporting the Soffit. Of course it will all get veneered so it will almost look like a peice of furniture.


Good Bye Old Columns, Hello New!


----------



## SmX

Hey Sean,


Yes, for the Last Option I would have to extend the Legs of the Columns to make it stick Out more. Either way it's still modifications that need to be done.


The Option 1 & 2 way have much more of a bolder look than option 3.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## swithey

I like option #1 or #2 also. You sure are making me think in the same direction for my HT.... round columns, hmmm.


BTW -- You've got PM


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben..


MAN!!!







You don't mess around! Just tear that stuff out!!

Were you going to put banding on the columns?!


Sean


----------



## SmX

The Banding is still up in the Air. I'm doing 5 wide Panels between the columns (Like 16" x 60" Wide). I May line the lines of the Panels up with the bands of the columns so it flows around the room (See the TK Theater Picture I posted 2 pages back).


BPape said I should Prob break the Lines up at the Columns. I'm def gonna do 1/2" Inset Bands, I was trying to decide on either 1/2" or 3/4"s wide insets before. You can see I did both widths in the Close up of the Column on the previous Page.


If anyone has some Band Positioning ideas, please chime in.


Thanks

Ruben



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximAvs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben..
> 
> 
> MAN!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't mess around! Just tear that stuff out!!
> 
> Were you going to put banding on the columns?!
> 
> 
> Sean


----------



## bpape

Yeah, I was thinking to do a double band relatively close together toward the top and another at the bottom. Maybe that's it. OR maybe add one more band in the center. Just something so you don't have the lines all around the room. It looks cool when it's all panels with bevels - very clean. But when you put the columns in, they naturally break the flow of the lines.


Maybe it's just me but every time I see round ones with all those inlays in them nice and symmetric, it looks like stacked barrels or like you only had narrow pieces of veneer to work with. When the banding is more subdued, It's more like a nice looking solid wood carved column with decorative accents.


Just my 2 cents - but not my theater. You gotta do what YOU like.


----------



## Rob_McArthur

I like how you combined the square into the round. Considering how many round surfaces you already have in the room I think that combo will look fantastic. Having them come out further further from the wall to "support" the soffit more remedies the other concern I had for them looking a little weak/small. I think you combined them very well now to achieve a unique look that follows the lines of your room. I think it will be worth the effort in rebuilding!


----------



## SmX

*VENEERING*


As Promised here is the procedure we Use to Veneer. I will use the columns to show how we put them together and veneered them...

*Here is what the Columns started off as. These are 8" Quarter Rounds. Someone may ask "why didn't you just buy Half Rounds?" It's because Half rounds were nowhere to be found Locally in the size I wanted. I found a few places in NY, WA and Cali that Carried them, but they were around $160.00 each plus shipping for 96" 18" Half Rounds. These 8" Quarter rounds were $45.00 each and were in stock at Specialty by my house.*










*We Built a quick Jig on the Stage and Platform using screws an spacing them 16" apart to hold the 2 8" quarter rounds together. We used Pro-Bond Glue and 1" Staples to tie the 2 quarters together.*










*Once the glu dried over Night, we added a 1" x 2" strip inside the column over the Seam for More Support.*










*Next, we had to smooth out that seam in the front where the 2 quarters butt together. So we first sanded down the Seam and then added a quick coat of Bondo...*










*After a half hour, Sand that bondo down to smooth it out and Sand the rest of the column to make Sure it has no bumps on it. You don't want a bump under your Veneer.*










*All Sanded and Ready for Veneer.*











Continued...


----------



## SmX

Part 2

*Measure and Cut your Veneer...*










*Here is the Glue we use to attach the Veneer...*










*Here is the spray gun we use to apply the glue to the Veneer. A spray gun is not necessary but it makes the job faster instead of having to dip the roller in glue every 2 seconds.*










*FIll the Gun with the Glue and do some test spray patterns on a scrap of wood or Cardboard.*










*Spray the glue on the Column First...*










*Then Smooth it out and spread it on with a Special roller for Veneer Glue or Contact cement...*










*Then Spray and roll the Veneer Glue on the back of the Veneer...*











Continued...


----------



## SmX

Part 3

*Let Glue set for like 10 minutes or until it is almost not tacky then cover glued veneer back with Craft Paper to protect it while putting it on the Column or whatever your applying the veneer to. The Craft Paper helps make sure you don't accidentally put the veneer on in the wrong place. Once this sticks it is Stuck forever...


Look at the Bottom of the Trash can in this picture on the right, that's not Green Glue, is it?







*










*Put veneer on Column with craft paper in between. Adjust position of veneer on column.*










*Once adjusted remove paper from one Side and press veneer down against column making Sure there is no air bubbles and smoothing it out from inside out.

Then gradually remove the rest of the paper as you work your way around the rest of the Column. Make sure there is no air Bubbles...*










*Next, Use your Hard roller to compress the veneer onto the column using pressure. This roller makes sure your Veneer is flat against your Wood without any air bubbles. The harder you press, the less likely you will have any air bubbles...*










*Next, Trim off all your Excess veneer using a utility knife or a Laminate trimmer...*










*Then Wallah! Your all Finished Veneering.*











After you trim off your excess Veneer, do a light sanding to the edges you trimmed off to smooth it Out. Then sand the whole Veneer to prep it for Sealer and Stain.


Happy Veneering!

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here is the Trim For the Equipment Rack. This Trim is 2" thick to be flush with the wall treatments. This frame is made out of MDF and is Veneered.


Front...











Front Close...











Back


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


As always, awesome job. Thanks for the step-by-step "how-to" on the Veneering. This will be very helpful.


One thing I wanted to ask you about is the banding you plan to add to the columns. Do you plan to use a simple router technique to get those grooves? I was planning to go this direction but was worried it might splinter the veneer when cutting. However, if it's stuck "hard" the column the way you say it is, it may not be a problem.


Also, how do you plan to cut the hole for the speakers to produce a nice straight square opening? Using a skil saw or somehow with your table saw?


----------



## Dcostanza

SandmanX

very nice approach and craftmanship!


Best regards

Don


----------



## darkman2003

Sandman,




As always awesome step by step details keep up the great work. You should


make a mini booklet out of this thread .I'll be the first one inline to purchase it !!!


I'm really looking forward seeing your walls done with fabricmate system.




DARKMAN


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkman2003* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> As always awesome step by step details keep up the great work. You should
> 
> make a mini booklet out of this thread .I'll be the first one inline to purchase it !!!
> 
> I'm really looking forward seeing your walls done with fabricmate system.
> 
> DARKMAN



Thanks,


I don't think were gonna use the Fabricmate system. I really don't like the Bevel they have on the system. We may just do the Panels the Old Fashion way (with lots of Staples).


Plus, the treatments are going to be 2" deep and the fabric mate system only comes in 1/2" & 1". That means we would have to Rip 2"x 2"s down to 1.25" and use those to fur the Walls out before we can use the Fabric Mate System. We may just rip some 1 x 3s down to 1" x 2" and build frames and wrap them. It takes me about 10 minutes to staple the fabric to a frame. The Room is going to have about 25 wide Panels.


----------



## Z06Racer

Absolutely beautiful. I am very impressed with your craftsmanship.


----------



## maximavwife

As Sean's wife I can tell you I honestly approve of the "Art" in the Boom Boom Room. They add a lot to the ambiance of the room. In my mind it's such a small way to make him happy. And, if Maximavs is happy, Maximavwife is happy







My only complaint would be, he needs to update the link with new pictures as he has added and made some changes to the room.


Kath


----------



## SVonhof

So, Kath, I don't know you, but why didn't you pose for the pictures? Now, that would be a very personal art show.










BTW, you don't have to answer that.


----------



## Gerry S

this may be a stupid question, but here goes.


What does the 8" refer to? is it the arc length? when you put two 8" half rounds together, what is the resulting radius of the semi-circle?


thanks for clarifying.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> this may be a stupid question, but here goes.
> 
> 
> What does the 8" refer to? is it the arc length? when you put two 8" half rounds together, what is the resulting radius of the semi-circle?
> 
> 
> thanks for clarifying.




8" is the Radius/Curve of the Bend. So if you put 2 8" radius pieces together you get a 16" Half round.


Ruben


----------



## maximavwife

Scott,

You assume I didn't pose?










Kath

Merry Christmas to all


----------



## SmX

Merry Christmas Every One!


Well Today we ripped the Wood and Built the Boxes for the back of the Columns.

We did a Mock up Column and Put it against the Wall, and All I can say is ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!


I AM SO HAPPY I took this Route and not the standard column Route. I have never felt happier about a last minute change like this in my life.

These columns even stick out about 3" more than the previous Square Columns but are so much less intrusive. They are Bold, Slick, Rich, Elegant and Modern all together IMO and I Absolutely Love them. These are my Pre Christmas Present










All I need to Figure out Now is the inset horizontal line Pattern to Use on the Columns.


Here are the completed Half Rounds Waiting for Bondo and Sanding and Veneer...











Here are the Boxes for the Back of the Columns...











Here is Some Pictures of the Mock Up Column. The Veneer on the Sides of the Box are not on yet, just held in Place with Spray adhesive for now...


----------



## jerrodshook

Man, those look sharp! It's getting very frustrating reading your thread, your HT moving at warp speed 9.... damn I'm jealous!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, those look sharp! It's getting very frustrating reading your thread, your HT moving at warp speed 9.... damn I'm jealous!



Thanks Man, Merry Christmas! Don't be Jealous, Be Motivated. Sometimes it's good to hire an assistant to Help you stay committed to the Project (If your doing it yourself). I slacked Off a couple months due to Hurricanes and change of Plans. With myself, Most of the work is thinking of good ways to make things better. I would of been done by now if I didn't redesign my theater 20 times in the process










But Hey, It's all worth it in the end. I am extremely happy with all the decisions I made so far and feel this theater will bring years of enjoyment to me and my Family.


----------



## jerrodshook

You should be happy, your HT is gonna kick a$$!!! I haven't had hurricanes, but I've had ridiculous amounts of work/travel, deaths in family, etc.... I have the last 5% of wrapup stuff to get past my first inspection. Fire blocking is a PITA! I just want to clear the first inspection so I can start drywall, get my RSIC up, and start to see something other than wires and stud walls.....


BTW, everytime I see your chairs I drool. They are really sweet! And the starlight ceiling is cool too. I think you've inspired me to try that, with my wife's blessing and approval too. She really like yhow yours looked.


----------



## bpape

I gotta say that the mockup looks great. Those will definitely be an attention getter and a beautiful part of the decor.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> As always, awesome job. Thanks for the step-by-step "how-to" on the Veneering. This will be very helpful.
> 
> 
> One thing I wanted to ask you about is the banding you plan to add to the columns. Do you plan to use a simple router technique to get those grooves? I was planning to go this direction but was worried it might splinter the veneer when cutting. However, if it's stuck "hard" the column the way you say it is, it may not be a problem.
> 
> 
> Also, how do you plan to cut the hole for the speakers to produce a nice straight square opening? Using a skil saw or somehow with your table saw?



Yep, we just Set up a Guide and Router it. We actually attached a 8" 1/4 Round curved plywood to the Router to keep the same depth of the inset all around the column. The Router does not chip the veneer its a real smooth finished cut when done. A light sanding smooths it out completely.


As far as cutting Speaker Holes, that will be a matter of setting up a guide on the column and using a hand held circular saw or Jigsaw.


Ruben


----------



## skyman00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as cutting Speaker Holes, Ruben



Ruben-

You've had me very perplexed on this issue and I can't wait to see how you address this. BTW, just beautiful! -j


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, we just Set up a Guide and Router it. We actually attached a 8" 1/4 Round curved plywood to the Router to keep the same depth of the inset all around the column. The Router does not chip the veneer its a real smooth finished cut when done. A light sanding smooths it out completely.
> 
> 
> As far as cutting Speaker Holes, that will be a matter of setting up a guide on the column and using a hand held circular saw or Jigsaw.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Thanks for the explanation. I like the idea of he 8 1/4" guide for the router.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyman00* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben-
> 
> You've had me very perplexed on this issue and I can't wait to see how you address this. BTW, just beautiful! -j




It's a rather Simple procedure. With the column not attached to the box, we use a Pencil to mark out our opening. Basically it's 2 lines that get drawn across the column from one end to the other Horizontally. Then we measure the distance from the Blade to the Guide on the Saw. Then Bend some 3/8" Bendable plywood around the column as a guide and clamp it down so it doesn't move. Then Simply cut your horizontal cuts. These 2 cuts wil turn the 1 column into 3 peieces and we Simple remove the middle piece which gives us our opening.


As far as making a speaker grill, thats pretty easy too. All you do is cut 2 1" x 16" pieces horizontally (from the Half Round middle piece you cut out before) to have your perfect radius pieces. Then a couple straight pieces for the sides, attach the 4 pieces together with Staples and Glue to Make your Frame, like any other frame. Obviously make sure the piece your making fits into the opening on the column. Then Paint the Frame Black or whatever color your GoM is. Then wrap it with some GoM pulling tight from top to bottom and not so tight from side to side. The GoM will contour to the radius of the Columns. Pop some hinges inside 1 side of the Grill if you want it to swing open with velcro on the other to keep it closed. Or you can just Velcro the whole grill so it pops off.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, when making those grills, you may need a stiffener at the half-way point on the radius, so that stretching the GOM does not bend the two radius pieces over time. Just a thought, but I am sure you will deal with whatever comes at you just fine! If you do need a stiffener, it won't take much, you could even use a small diameter dowel.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, when making those grills, you may need a stiffener at the half-way point on the radius, so that stretching the GOM does not bend the two radius pieces over time. Just a thought, but I am sure you will deal with whatever comes at you just fine! If you do need a stiffener, it won't take much, you could even use a small diameter dowel.



Yep, could be very true. We will see how stiff the frame is once done. The GoM wont be pulled so Tight that it would bend it anyway. But you do have a valid point that can be simply addressed.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Few Updates...


Got My Lutron GRX-3106-A Grafik Eye. Got it for $499.00 on eBay brand new.


The Xantech IR repeater System is on the Way Total Cost for this with Shipping was $261.23


Got my 4/1 DVI Switcher. Cost $314.00


The BTX MotorDrape arrived Damage thanks to UPS, so the company is sending out a new Kit to us. Price $495.00


The Middle Atlantic Custom Rack Shelves are on their way.

I ordered 7 custom Shelves. Price $574.07


135" Screen is on the way with Pro Trim & Shipping. Total Price $1,697.48

*Total for this round of equipment $3,840.78*


----------



## skyman00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a rather Simple procedure. With the column not attached to the box, we use a Pencil to mark out our opening. Basically it's 2 lines that get drawn across the column from one end to the other Horizontally. Then we measure the distance from the Blade to the Guide on the Saw. Then Bend some 3/8" Bendable plywood around the column as a guide and clamp it down so it doesn't move. Then Simply cut your horizontal cuts. These 2 cuts wil turn the 1 column into 3 peieces and we Simple remove the middle piece which gives us our opening.
> 
> 
> As far as making a speaker grill, thats pretty easy too. All you do is cut 2 1" x 16" pieces horizontally (from the Half Round middle piece you cut out before) to have your perfect radius pieces. Then a couple straight pieces for the sides, attach the 4 pieces together with Staples and Glue to Make your Frame, like any other frame. Obviously make sure the piece your making fits into the opening on the column. Then Paint the Frame Black or whatever color your GoM is. Then wrap it with some GoM pulling tight from top to bottom and not so tight from side to side. The GoM will contour to the radius of the Columns. Pop some hinges inside 1 side of the Grill if you want it to swing open with velcro on the other to keep it closed. Or you can just Velcro the whole grill so it pops off.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben-

Be sure and take some pics during this process and link them here; I really want to see this as I'm sure many others do too!

Thanks for the explanation. -j


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 135" Screen is on the way with Pro Trim & Shipping. Total Price $1,697.48



Ruben,


So you decided to buy a "pre-made" screen vs. a DIY? Is that the DaLite or Carada? What screen material did you end up selecting?


Steve


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> So you decided to buy a "pre-made" screen vs. a DIY? Is that the DaLite or Carada? What screen material did you end up selecting?
> 
> 
> Steve



Merry Christmas Everyone,


I went with the Da-Lite Fixed Frame Cinema Contour, Perforated High Contrast Cinema Vision with the Pro Trim.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyman00* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben-
> 
> Be sure and take some pics during this process and link them here; I really want to see this as I'm sure many others do too!
> 
> Thanks for the explanation. -j



Will Do.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Your project is screaming. Great job.


I noticed that you said that you didn't think you were going to use the Fabricmate and would go the furring strip route. That's what I did.


I don't know if you thought about the implications but one is that you really shouldn't fasten the columns (the side rail part) to the wall until the fabric is up.


That way you can fold the fabric over the side furring strips, staple, then mount the column side rails hiding the staples.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your project is screaming. Great job.
> 
> 
> I noticed that you said that you didn't think you were going to use the Fabricmate and would go the furring strip route. That's what I did.
> 
> 
> I don't know if you thought about the implications but one is that you really shouldn't fasten the columns (the side rail part) to the wall until the fabric is up.
> 
> 
> That way you can fold the fabric over the side furring strips, staple, then mount the column side rails hiding the staples.



Thanks,


It won't be screaming to me until I get some Damn color In that room. I'm sick of looking at Drywall and Wood.


As far as the walls, The panels will be made off the Wall and then hung with Industrial Velcro on mounting blocks. Pretty much the same way Greg Powers did his panels.


----------



## Duaned

This would be cool, if there was a way to get them to twinkle it would be cool.




There is not a lot of info about the lenght of the optical cable but it appears that there are three different lengths in each bundle. Lets say you use about 2-3 bundles per panel the total cost for a similar size as sandman might be something like 3 or 4 times 17$. Thats quite cool if it works.


Im not in the US so I can't try it out for now. If somebody is willing to try please let us know how it went. Okay end of my thread jacking. Back to sandmans amazing build.


Cheers,


Exipnos[/quote]


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Duaned* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This would be cool, if there was a way to get them to twinkle it would be cool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is not a lot of info about the lenght of the optical cable but it appears that there are three different lengths in each bundle. Lets say you use about 2-3 bundles per panel the total cost for a similar size as sandman might be something like 3 or 4 times 17$. Thats quite cool if it works.
> 
> 
> Im not in the US so I can't try it out for now. If somebody is willing to try please let us know how it went. Okay end of my thread jacking. Back to sandmans amazing build.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Exipnos



[/quote]


They Do Twinkle. You Must of not read my part on the Star Panels. They contain Light boxes that have twinkle wheels.


----------



## SmX

Need your Help Guys.


As you May already know, I did my Columns, Light Tray and Rack Trim in Red Oak Wood Veneer. I will be staining this Veneer a deep Cherry Red/Rosenut color so the finish looks Identical to the B&W 802 Speakers in Rosenut or the Paradigms Rosenut FInish for those who never seen the B&W's.


The Problem I am facing is how to break up the Color of the columns with the Walls/Panels of the Room. The original Plan called for Red Walls with Red Columns and Black Trim. Well I now feel it's gonna be a little too much red going on and I really want to accent these Columns from the walls.


So I threw a quick idea together to see what you guys have to say as far as breaking it up. What I do know for certain is the Veneer will be Stained a Rosenut/Deep Cherry Red. The large Red panel looks empty to me, maybe I should break It up into a few Beveled frames? Also, I will be accent lighting all 6 Columns with spot lights shooting down from the soffit.


Please do not be shy to shine in







and If you have any ideas PLEASE tell me.


The Colors of the Panels below are Black and the rug is too. They look dark grey in the drawing below. Also, the Grain of the wood on the columns Is not that big, it is more like the light trays above them.


This is with Accent Lighting...











Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Make a decorative wall medallion out of metallic laminate and curved outward along the lines of this shape:


I think a dark ruby metallic


----------



## SmX

Thanks BigMouth! But Metallic Medalions on the wall will be a distraction if the Projector light bounces off them.


I did another version with Black panels. Just trying to kick some idea's around











Thanks

Ruben


----------



## MPDXrules

black top /bottom really shows off that trim, why not go black with a larger piece of trim


----------



## KWhite

oooh, like the black or maybe a dark charcol grey.


----------



## exipnos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Duaned* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This would be cool, if there was a way to get them to twinkle it would be cool.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> They Do Twinkle. You Must of not read my part on the Star Panels. They contain Light boxes that have twinkle wheels.



Small confusion, I belive Duaned was refeering to the DIY solution using fibre optic bundles from IKEA while SandmanX was refeering to his own solution that indeed has the twinkle capability.


For the IKEA diy, they don't have twinkle capability but there might be a way of adding it. It all depends on the light source within the optic bundles. One way is to use one of those cheap electronic kits that can control lights such as the FK130: 3 Channel Dancing Light Kit or fk144: DC Chasing Light Kit 6 Program at http://store.qkits.com/category.cfm/LIGHT .


----------



## ebr

Even though it is all "red" the stained wood and the red GOM panels should still look pretty different.


What if you painted the "box" portion of the columns black? That would break up the wall and keep your original scheme.


----------



## SVonhof

I am not throwing my opinion one way or the other, but adding to ebr's comment of painting the back box of the columns black. Instead of painting them black, why not use the black analine dye like I have used on my equipment rack and J. L. used on his speakers in the Very High Quality DIY speakers thread 

The black comes out better than any black stain would allow, since it is a dye and still allows the grain of the wood to come through.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not throwing my opinion one way or the other, but adding to ebr's comment of painting the back box of the columns black. Instead of painting them black, why not use the black analine dye like I have used on my equipment rack and J. L. used on his speakers in the Very High Quality DIY speakers thread
> 
> The black comes out better than any black stain would allow, since it is a dye and still allows the grain of the wood to come through.



Thanks the link SVonhof, I just checked that thread out, pretty impressive. Let me play around with that Idea of black stain in Photoshop here and see how it looks. I will Post the picture in a few.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## 61 flat-top

First off let me add .... awesome thread! I am like yourself where I will unfortunately continue to throw spent money at a project until I am happy with the results and function. I have caught myself spending the same money three or four times.... oh well, like my grandfather (everybody's grandfather / father for that matter) used to say... " you live and you learn"

Second of all... I totally agree, you have way to much monochromatic theme happening and you are going to loose alot of those details you have been busting your butt for. I would consider either a stainless or aluminum in a brushed or "engine turned" finish as a border or an accent. If you go black, you might as well stay red because you are going to loose depth and color with that as well.....

I Do have to say, fortunately for me now... I live in a log home and all of my logs are rough cut hand hewn logs.... so I can cheat will all rough cut antiqued lumber or timbers, and trim work....


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys,


Here is an update on how we Routered the Columns. It was allot of pictures so I just Posted them on our server as a web Page. I should Probably start a Personal Home Theater construction Web Site.


Here is the First Set of Pictures and Descriptions...

SANDMANS COLUMN CONSTRUCTION - Part 2


----------



## SVonhof

Dude, don't you sleep? 11:22pm my time means 2:22am your time!


Great info on how you routed your columns. I would not have gone that thin on the remaining material though, since I would think it would be too thin, but you obviously felt comfortable doing it. What are you doing to finish the cuts? Inserting some metal or something?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude, don't you sleep? 11:22pm my time means 2:22am your time!
> 
> 
> Great info on how you routed your columns. I would not have gone that thin on the remaining material though, since I would think it would be too thin, but you obviously felt comfortable doing it. What are you doing to finish the cuts? Inserting some metal or something?



Yep it's almost 3am here.


Believe it or not, that thin groove is absolutely impossible to snap. Me and my friend both tried to break it by playing tug o war with it, it was impossible. Those Grooves will get painted black and possibly wrapped with a metallic insert or whatever looks good in there. It may just look fine painted black. They are only a 1/2" wide by a half inch deep so they Will not be that noticable once stained. We did those grooves just to make the column look a bit more detailed.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Oh Before I go to bed,


Here is another Batch of photo's and descriptions on how we made the Column Boxes.

SANDMANS COLUMN BOX CONSTRUCTION 


Ruben


----------



## ScottJ0007

I've been following your thread for a while and I have to say that you amaze me! Your construction / woodworking talents are incredible. The speed at which you move, your knowledge of how to accomplish projects, the number of tools you have, and then your willingness to document it all for us -- simply amazing.


Then on top of everything else, you design a custom-made curved router base. Wow... you are out of my league by a long shot.


----------



## ebr

I know what you mean, Scott. Makes me not even want to start my own construction thread. I'm not worthy!!


Awesome job, Sandman.


----------



## skyman00

Ruben-

Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your column speaker cutout solution! -j


----------



## SVonhof

ebr, your theaters (past, present, future) leave nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all the inspiration guys! I love Sharing this info, just like you guys love sharing it. If it wasn't for all the people here posting construction threads & Tips, who knows if I would even of been motivated to start this project.


You guys are really the ones that made this possible for me, and I thank you deeply. I can only hope my theater turns out half as good as your theaters.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Quick Updates before Bedtime.


We completed construction of the columns today. Nothing ever goes easy in my life







Basically the column box widths were too wide and we had to cut them down 4" from 24" wide to 20" wide. This New width looks much better now IMO. It required us cutting the Veneered boxes in half vertically by removing a 4" verticle strip in the middle and re attaching the 2 halfs together with a vertical support strip glued and nailed to the 2 halves.


After that, I found out the Speaker grill size we were gonna use was too small to address the first reflection issues in our theater. I basically changed the column design right around the time my consultant BPape went on Christmas Vacation. I had resized the Grills to accomodate a look I was going after and was thinking about doing Paradigm Speakers in the theater instead of Martin Logans.


When Bryan got back, he informed me that the Grills were way to high and were not going to address the first reflection points. So after pre-routing our grooves for the Grills, we have to cut them out and router new grooves to accomodate the new Grill Size.


When BPape originally did the Specs for my theater, he was going by the Speakers I was using in the columns which were Martin Logan Scripts. Those Speakers are 44" tall and that is what he used to do the room specs. I didn't realize how important the columns were to address first reflection points.


So any here is what you guys Prefer, some Pictures









* SANDMAN COLUMN CONSTRUCTION - PART 3 *


PS. I am going to Start a Blog on the Construction of our Theater to have forever.

TTYL


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been following your thread for a while and I have to say that you amaze me! Your construction / woodworking talents are incredible. The speed at which you move, your knowledge of how to accomplish projects, the number of tools you have, and then your willingness to document it all for us -- simply amazing.
> 
> 
> Then on top of everything else, you design a custom-made curved router base. Wow... you are out of my league by a long shot.



Thanks for your Kind Words Scott. Most of this stuff is pretty simple once you sit down and plan it all out on paper. A big part of the time wasted is thinking and planning ahead. Having the tools and a creative mind helps a bit too







But honestly, You can spend under $500 at home depot and buy all the tools you need to build this out. And with a little advanced woodwork reading, you can learn a great amount of techniques to crafting anything.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know what you mean, Scott. Makes me not even want to start my own construction thread. I'm not worthy!!
> 
> 
> Awesome job, Sandman.



ebr, your construction details on your theater have been one of my inspirations to doing this. Your theater is incredible and I actually stole your stage design and modified it for my theater, but don't tell anyone










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyman00* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben-
> 
> Very nice! Looking forward to seeing your column speaker cutout solution! -j



Skyman, I know you been waiting to see the final steps, so I posted them about 3 posts above this one. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Another Update...


Today my AVI and Component Cables arrived from avCables. They really make those cables thick! These will run from my equipment rack to my projector.











Man I don't know what to do with all my DVD's. My wife wants me to get them out of our Florida Room and put them somewhere else. I wish I had room to build another room for the DVDs and Equipment, but that is not a reality.











For those who were wondering why I chose Red & Black for our Theater. It's because our kitchen is Red & Black and we wanted to keep the theme the same. Although I must say, if the Color of the staining in the theater comes out the way I want it, I may be doing our kitchen over in Wood doors stained the same (Rosenut/Deep cherry).


Ruben


----------



## Skippard

Ruben,


You are a DIY GOD!! I have been following your progress since you began, I also have been making notes and modifying my designs almost every time I catchup on this thread. You are truly an inspiration to everyone who wants to build a HT themselves. In particular, I am most impressed with the starfield ceiling and the columns. I will most likely be starting this spring and there will be a lot of Rubenisms







in my HT. Thanks for all your effort in documenting your construction progress and may your thread eventually become a sticky as a model of how to document HT construction.


Okay, it's official, I have joined the cult of Sandman X










-Skipp


----------



## skyman00

Ruben-

Wow! I'm very impressed with your cutout solution for your columns!

I was concerned that you might get/see some concavity in the GOM wrapped section(make sense?).

But it looks awesome! -j


----------



## 61 flat-top

Ruben.......


Have you made your decision on the trim yet? The more I think of an engine turned finish the more I think that would just look kick ass. There is also another process you can do that is called black croming. It is a powder coating process and you start with a polished product........


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *61 flat-top* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben.......
> 
> 
> Have you made your decision on the trim yet? The more I think of an engine turned finish the more I think that would just look kick ass. There is also another process you can do that is called black croming. It is a powder coating process and you start with a polished product........



Not yet, once the Stain goes in there we will try different things out. I know about the powder coating process too. I done that in the past.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyman00* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben-
> 
> Wow! I'm very impressed with your cutout solution for your columns!
> 
> I was concerned that you might get/see some concavity in the GOM wrapped section(make sense?).
> 
> But it looks awesome! -j



Thanks man, the frame is strong enough on its own. I'm just looking for something to reinforce the fabric on the grills now. Probably a perforated metal or grill.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skippard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> You are a DIY GOD!! I have been following your progress since you began, I also have been making notes and modifying my designs almost every time I catchup on this thread. You are truly an inspiration to everyone who wants to build a HT themselves. In particular, I am most impressed with the starfield ceiling and the columns. I will most likely be starting this spring and there will be a lot of Rubenisms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in my HT. Thanks for all your effort in documenting your construction progress and may your thread eventually become a sticky as a model of how to document HT construction.
> 
> 
> Okay, it's official, I have joined the cult of Sandman X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Skipp



LOL, Thanks Man, but I'm an amature compared to half these guys here. It's really just all about being creative and planning it out, obviously a few tools help out a bit too










Since you joined the SandmanX cult, we have a meeting tonight, and make sure you bring brand new white sneakers


----------



## ebr

lol - 'cause I have now stolen your modified stage design for my new room.


What goes around comes around...


----------



## darkman2003

Just to add my two cents because that all i'm going to have left when my theater is done.lol


I have official joined the cult of Sandman X and Ebr. Two great looking theater.


I have email you many times Eric as you know. As always thanks for the advce. Same for


you,Ruben thanks for the advice on fabricmate made my decision much easier. Keep up the


great work guys.


Darkman


----------



## Skippard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL, Thanks Man, but I'm an amature compared to half these guys here. It's really just all about being creative and planning it out, obviously a few tools help out a bit too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you joined the SandmanX cult, we have a meeting tonight, and make sure you bring brand new white sneakers




OK, I'll be there, but there better be punch!


----------



## 61 flat-top




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks man, the frame is strong enough on its own. I'm just looking for something to reinforce the fabric on the grills now. Probably a perforated metal or grill.
> 
> 
> Ruben



You could use furring strips or rip some ply wood down..... soak them down and clamp them to your router jig, Give the clamps some twists throughout the day and then you will end up with a piece that is formed to the same shape as your column.

I do have question for you.... I noticed you had mentioned before that you were going to use the underside of your soffits as a bass trap but you had changed your thinking.... could you elaborate on that a little? My apologies if I missed a previous explanation. This thread is starting to get hard to find the information that you had previously read.Thanks Ruben...~!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *61 flat-top* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You could use furring strips or rip some ply wood down..... soak them down and clamp them to your router jig, Give the clamps some twists throughout the day and then you will end up with a piece that is formed to the same shape as your column.
> 
> I do have question for you.... I noticed you had mentioned before that you were going to use the underside of your soffits as a bass trap but you had changed your thinking.... could you elaborate on that a little? My apologies if I missed a previous explanation. This thread is starting to get hard to find the information that you had previously read.Thanks Ruben...~!



Thanks for the tip, but I could just cut more ribs off the half round scraps instead of going through all that







But that is not the case here. I do not want to have any large objects blocking the sound of the speaker under the cloth. So I rather use a perforated metal or screen ike they use on speaker grills.


As Far as Bass absorbtion, the 2 front soffits will be used for that. They will be filled from top to bottom with Cotton.


Ruben


----------



## Test_Engineer

Ruben,


I posted a couple pages back that I didn't like the red and black theme, BUT now with all the cherry stain and if you go with Black GOM on the walls...that is exactly how I would want my future HT to look. I'd still get different color chairs, but to each his own. To me, there is nothing more rich and elegant looking than black accented by cherry(similar theme in my current house)! Your HT is going to be beautiful when it is done. Kept up the good work and thanks again for sharing EVERYTHING with everyone here.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

If you've never seen Sandman you'd wouldn't understand the red and black, white tennis shoes theme.


Here is a picture (I stole) of/from him making modifications to his receiver so it will fit in his rack.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you've never seen Sandman you'd wouldn't understand the red and black, white tennis shoes theme.
> 
> 
> Here is a picture (I stole) of/from him making modifications to his receiver so it will fit in his rack.



LOL Damn, How did You Find out? I was axing my old equipment in that shot.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those who were wondering why I chose Red & Black for our Theater. It's because our kitchen is Red & Black and we wanted to keep the theme the same. Although I must say, if the Color of the staining in the theater comes out the way I want it, I may be doing our kitchen over in Wood doors stained the same (Rosenut/Deep cherry).
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I love those HUGE built-in refrigerators. I wanted to do those in my current home but did not have the space. Cool kitchen!


----------



## hvn4179




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... So I rather use a perforated metal or screen ike they use on speaker grills.
> 
> Ruben



I've been looking around for awhile w/o any success on a piece of perforated metal that looks like the metal grill on Martin Logan speaker. If you find the place, please advise. Thx.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

gotta be here someplace:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...rforated+metal 




Here is an excerpt from the McMaster-Carr web site: http://www.mcmaster.com/ 



Perforated Metal



About Perforated Metal

Perforated metal is manufactured with hole patterns which are uniform and accurate in size. The surface is smooth and easy to clean. Perforated metal is well suited for architectural work, light construction, sorting, separating, and fabricating custom parts. It's also ideal for machine guards, ventilating grills, and acoustical supports.

These hole size illustrations are actual size and can help you determine the correct opening for your requirements.



.024" Hole Dia. 23% Open, Straight 9255T121



.033" Hole Dia. 20% Open, Staggered 9255T151



.078" Hole Dia. 36% Open, Staggered 9255T521



.1875" Hole Dia. 51% Open, Staggered 9255T781



.250" Hole Dia. 58% Open, Staggered 9255T831




Steel Perforated Sheets

A good economical choice for general purpose applications. This low carbon steel is rigid, yet is easy to form and cut. Sheets are 36" x 40", except where noted.

Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


Straight Hole Pattern

.018" 26 0.024" 0.044" 23% 9255T121 $65.30


.024" 24 0.033" 0.055" 28% 9255T111 74.83


.024" 24 0.045" 0.066" 37% 9255T191 60.49


Staggered Hole Pattern

.024" 24 0.033" 0.077" 20% 9255T151 65.35


.024" 24 0.045" 0.086" 28% 9255T131 50.74


.030" 22 0.050" 3/32" 26% 9255T231 52.80


.030" 22 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T411 37.88


.030" 22 0.079" 7/64" 45% 9255T471 46.54


.030" 22 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T611 35.29


.030" 22 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T661 33.19


.030" 22 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T741 42.23


.036" 20 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T381 52.29


.036" 20 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T321 52.00


.036" 20 0.0625" 3/32" 41% 9255T251 32.77


.036" 20 0.075" 1/10" 51% 9255T431 50.54


.036" 20 0.079" 7/64" 45% 9255T451 50.54


.036" 20 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T581 48.14


.036" 20 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T651 45.71


.036" 20 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T691 38.08


.036" 20 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T731 40.75


.036" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T791 38.19


.036" 20 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T871 38.48


.036" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T841 39.73


.048" 18 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T361 57.23


.048" 18 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T291 50.88


30" x 40" sheet size.

Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


Staggered Hole Pattern (Continued)

.048" 18 0.078" 1/8" 36% 9255T521 $58.26


.048" 18 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T561 55.37


.048" 18 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T641 46.80


.048" 18 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T681 43.81


.048" 18 0.156" 7/32" 46% 9255T761 53.69


.048" 18 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T781 41.25


.048" 18 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T831 43.49


.060" 16 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9255T341 76.62


.060" 16 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9255T271 74.10


.060" 16 0.078" 1/8" 36% 9255T491 56.11


.060" 16 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9255T541 63.60


.060" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9255T631 61.03


.060" 16 0.141" 3/16" 51% 9255T671 54.15


.060" 16 0.156" 7/32" 46% 9255T751 61.03


.060" 16 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9255T721 61.89


.060" 16 0.1875" 5/16" 33% 9255T811 60.17


.060" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9255T771 49.01


.060" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T861 51.86


.060" 16 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9255T821 52.13


.060" 16 0.3125" 7/16" 47% 9255T881 52.40


.060" 16 0.375" 9/16" 40% 9255T911 51.47


.060" 16 0.500" 11/16" 48% 9255T941 50.96


.060" 16 0.750" 1" 51% 9255T971 54.15


.075" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T851 61.46


.075" 14 0.375" 9/16" 40% 9255T891 62.59


.075" 14 0.500" 11/16" 48% 9255T931 61.03


.250" 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9255T211 190.24




Type 304 Stainless Steel Perforated Sheets

Type 304 stainless steel has good corrosion and abrasion resistance. All sheets have a staggered hole pattern. Sheets are 36" x 40".

Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


.024" 24 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9358T121 $78.80


.030" 22 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9358T131 106.83


.030" 22 0.0625" 3/32" 41% 9358T281 84.60


.030" 22 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T241 99.49


.036" 20 0.156" 3/16" 63% 9358T291 92.94


.036" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T151 80.92


.036" 20 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T271 105.69


.036" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T161 110.74


.048" 18 0.094" 5/32" 33% 9358T311 145.83


.048" 18 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T321 113.28


Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


.048" 18 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T331 $110.80


.048" 18 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T351 95.38


.048" 18 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T341 92.48


.060" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T141 127.25


.060" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9358T251 120.68


.060" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T171 153.49


.060" 16 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9358T261 120.16


.075" 14 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9358T461 175.54


.075" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T381 162.29


.120" 11 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9358T371 201.14




Alloy 3003-H14 Aluminum Perforated Sheets

Material is lightweight, has good corrosion resistance, excellent workability, and can be welded. Sheets have a staggered hole pattern. Sheet size is 36" x 40".

Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


.032" 20 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9232T111 $31.44


.032" 20 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9232T161 32.39


.032" 20 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T121 30.75


.032" 20 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T131 29.34


.032" 20 0.250" 5/16" 58% 9232T221 29.97


.050" 16 0.0625" 7/64" 30% 9232T151 47.78


.050" 16 0.0625" 1/8" 23% 9232T141 44.53


Center-

Hole to-Center Open

Thick. Ga. Dia. Spacing Area Each


.050" 16 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T181 $38.73


.050" 16 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T211 38.04


.050" 16 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9232T241 41.73


.063" 14 0.125" 3/16" 40% 9232T171 49.66


.063" 14 0.1875" 1/4" 51% 9232T191 46.83


.063" 14 0.250" 3/8" 40% 9232T231 48.83





I think you would want to pick one with the highest % open area.


----------



## Toon_time

I like to read and then read again these forums before jumping in ... but with this awesome thread how can one maintain their composure behind the "curtains" and not jump out and say " awesome dude" ...

I am soaking up everthing in this thread as I am contemplating a Theater myself, got the WAF pre-approval already, just need to get the final plans before her for final signature ....


Great job man and keep it up ..


----------



## SmX

Happy New Year Everyone.


Well yesterday we experimented around with some staining and finishing to figure out the color we want to achieve on the columns and light trays.


For some reason, all the pictures I took yesterday of the stained samples with my camera came out Fire Engine Red/Orange. So Today I was able to set the camera and lighting differently to get a more accurate Color match on the computer.


What we did was use a scrap half round that was veneered and Masked it off in a few sections to test coats and heaviness of spray to get the best color. The clear coat is a Satin Finish and needs to be Steel wooled and waxed.


This is pretty much the color I liked best on the bottom (below the groove)











Here is a Close up shot of the grain. We may use a grain filler to fill up the grains and make it all smooth like a piece of glass. Some People told me not to and some people thought I should. What do you guys think?











Here is a wider shot of the Sample. For those who have good monitors will see the color Difference the Bottom is all the same color and the top is to different colors from left to right











I documented the whole Staining process as well.


Let me know what you guys think.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hvn4179* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've been looking around for awhile w/o any success on a piece of perforated metal that looks like the metal grill on Martin Logan speaker. If you find the place, please advise. Thx.



There are literally Thousands of places online that carry perforated metals, metal mesh Screens, etc. Do a google search for perforated metals.


Here is one for example http://www.perf-plus.com/ 


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here is a Few shots with the GoM next to the Stained Column.





























Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

BTW, you guys, perforated metal could be used, but so could expanded metal. Either will work, expanded metal can be found more easilly and should be at Home Depot and Lowes.


If you don't know what I am talking about, it also comes in sheets and has a diamond pattern. This is an example of expanded and flattened metal:








http://www.mcnichols.com/products/expanded/flattened/


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, you guys, perforated metal could be used, but so could expanded metal. Either will work, expanded metal can be found more easilly and should be at Home Depot and Lowes.
> 
> 
> If you don't know what I am talking about, it also comes in sheets and has a diamond pattern. This is an example of expanded and flattened metal:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.mcnichols.com/products/expanded/flattened/



That would probably be good, but the large open pattern of it will probably show through the GoM. I used that stuff before and its really not that smooth like a circle perf metal.


But its Def worth a try, I will See if HD hads some.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, this is the flat stuff, the standard expanded metal which will be more readilly available will not give a smooth look like this stuff would. Good luck in finding it.


If you can't find any of it, the easiest thing to do would be wait until Monday or Tuesday and call either a metal supply house near you or a sheet-metal shop near you. Either of them would probably have something that would work. I would say that the pattern that gives the most percentage of open area will be best. since it would have less area to block/reflect the sound.


----------



## ebr

Sandman - my opinion - leave the grain. Grain is one of the things that gives wood its character. If you fill and smooth it, I'm afraid two things could happen:


1) It could end up looking "fake" like its not real wood and you went to so much trouble to create that beautiful woodwoork.


2) It could end up very reflective and be distracting.


Just my .02


----------



## larryep




> Man I don't know what to do with all my DVD's. My wife wants me to get them out of our Florida Room and put them somewhere else. I wish I had room to build another room for the DVDs and Equipment, but that is not a reality.
> 
> 
> run your theater with a HTPC
> 
> put all of them on hardrives, you should only need about 20 terabytes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have all the dvd's in boxes in storage.
> 
> 
> the kitchen is nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - my opinion - leave the grain. Grain is one of the things that gives wood its character. If you fill and smooth it, I'm afraid two things could happen:
> 
> 
> 1) It could end up looking "fake" like its not real wood and you went to so much trouble to create that beautiful woodwoork.
> 
> 
> 2) It could end up very reflective and be distracting.
> 
> 
> Just my .02



Thanks ebr,


When they make high end speaker cabinets like paradigms and B&Ws they Use a Pore filler On the deep pores so the final finish is smooth as glass whether it be satin or gloss finish. The pore fillers also highlight the Grain of the wood when using a tinted pore filler.


For some reason, when I see deep grooves in finished wood, it reminds me of Olden Style or the Tables at Outback Steakhouse. When the Finish Is smooth, it looks more modern to me. I am trying to achive a more modern look here. I think I like the color I got, now it's just about getting the right finish. So tomorrow I will Do some experimentations with Pore Fillers and see what the outcome is.


I will keep you updated.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




larryep said:


> Quote:
> run your theater with a HTPC
> 
> put all of them on hardrives, you should only need about 20 terabytes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have all the dvd's in boxes in storage.
> 
> 
> the kitchen is nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20 terrabytes? Tha's All?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am going to use a Mac Mini for a HTPC for the meantime to play music and Organize my DVD Collection with DVD Pedia.
> 
> 
> Ruben
Click to expand...


----------



## jpa3d

Ruben, Why not contact one of the speaker companys like Atlantic Technology or Cambridge Soundworks, who use metal perforated grills and see if they can help with obtaining grills for use in your HT. Who knows when they see your theater build they might give you a complete 7.1 system for advertising rights!


Jim


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpa3d* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, Why not contact one of the speaker companys like Atlantic Technology or Cambridge Soundworks, who use metal perforated grills and see if they can help with obtaining grills for use in your HT. Who knows when they see your theater build they might give you a complete 7.1 system for advertising rights!
> 
> 
> Jim



Thanks Jim,


Sounds like a Good Idea.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well Last Night I got Some Time to try out the Perforated Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite. They Came right after the Screen I ordered came in, Figures.


One was the High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain

One was a Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain

The Other was a High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain.


Basically, I set up the Optoma H-79 and shot it on my Bone white Painted Textured Wall. I taped all 3 samples to the Wall. The Samples are like 6" x 6"


First thing I can Tell you, I did not like the perforations. They were real noticable to me at 8 feet from the wall on all the Samples.


The Audio Vision with a 1.0 Gain is a white screen and looked no Different than the bone white wall I was shooting on. The Sample Completely dissapeared (besides the perfs) with the painted wall when I watched a movie this proved to me I could just shoot on a Wall to get the Same results as the Screen.


The High Contrast Cinema Perf with a 1.1 Gain was a Light Grey Screen and looked no Different than the wall either, except for it having better contrast and deeper blacks. But Besides the Blacks getting Blacker everything else got darker too. So I have no idea what the point is of that.


The High Contrast Audio Vision with a 0.8 Gain, I have No Clue who would use this, It is Real Dark Grey and everything looks Black with it.


Aren't Screens suppose to work better than a regular painted wall?


I'm going to try some more samples from Stewart, Screen Research & Dazian before I open this Box up with the Da-Lite Screen. I know folks, I rushed ahead of myself and got the screen before I got the Samples and now I'm wondering. But if another Screen Fabric proves to be better than my wall and the price is resonable, I will return the Da-Lite and get the better choice.


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Sandman - if you're going for the more modern look (which I understand, given the picture of your kitchen) then you probably will like the pores filled.


On the screen - I paid $1200+ for a Stewart screen in my first room. I built my own out of Parkland wall material for the second one (for $35) and I thought the second screen was at least as good as the first. Now - I never saw them side by side so I may have fooled myself, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in spending lots of money on a screen...


[bracing for the onslaught of screen proponents]


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - if you're going for the more modern look (which I understand, given the picture of your kitchen) then you probably will like the pores filled.
> 
> 
> On the screen - I paid $1200+ for a Stewart screen in my first room. I built my own out of Parkland wall material for the second one (for $35) and I thought the second screen was at least as good as the first. Now - I never saw them side by side so I may have fooled myself, but I'm not sure I'm a believer in spending lots of money on a screen...
> 
> 
> [bracing for the onslaught of screen proponents]



I Hope the Stewarts look better than the Wall for all the money they Get. I seen Prices of $6k and better for a 135" Stewart.


Is This like the $4k speaker wires sounding the same as Radio Shack Zip Cord Debate? Cause I remember they did a Huge A & B Blind Test with speaker cables and the biggest critics and it was a 50/50 call in the end.


Maybe this was done With screens too? Someone please help me justify this.


Ruben


----------



## Gerry S

A user took some measurements with different acoustically transparent screens. Look here:
screen thread


----------



## ebr

I'm sure I wouldn't compare different screens to things such as "Monster" wire. Especially, when you get into specialized applications (like acoustical transparency, high gain, high contrast, etc.)


I'm just saying that, for me, I can't imagine that I'll ever spend a lot of money on a screen since I am happy with the image that can be produced on cheaper materials. This time around I am going to try and go acoustically transparent as well and I plan to try to use the Dazian CCC cloth (based largely on the thread referenced above). The way I see it, if it doesn't work well enough, I don't have much invested in it and can go another way.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm sure I wouldn't compare different screens to things such as "Monster" wire. Especially, when you get into specialized applications (like acoustical transparency, high gain, high contrast, etc.)
> 
> 
> I'm just saying that, for me, I can't imagine that I'll ever spend a lot of money on a screen since I am happy with the image that can be produced on cheaper materials. This time around I am going to try and go acoustically transparent as well and I plan to try to use the Dazian CCC cloth (based largely on the thread referenced above). The way I see it, if it doesn't work well enough, I don't have much invested in it and can go another way.



Also, Maybe back in the Days, when projectors were not as Bright and didn't have such high Contrast Ratio's, these Screens were a necessity to HT. All I can ppersonally Say is the Screen Samples I got from Da-Lite are no better than my Painted Wall IMO.


I wonder what the Da-Lite Material Costs without the frame? Any ideas?


Ruben


----------



## 68sting

I can give you a little info on screens. I recently went to a demo held by Integrity Home Theater on screens. They had some full size screens along with 2'x3' samples.


The higher gain screens (white)would hot spot. When you walked from side to side the center was much brighter than the sides. I liked the Silver Star the best (4.0 gain). It was "plasma like" bright but obviously hot spotted the worst. General rule was if you had a narrow seating arangement and could control lighting you would be fine.


The grey screens didn't hot spot near as much and did a lot better with light. As they slowly raised the lights, the the Firehawk(grey) looked great, but the Studio Tek(1.0 gain white-this is the screen the studios use) washed out quickly. So if you have ambient light problems or like to have some lights on when the guys come over for football, the Firehawk screen excelled. Also with lights down the Firehawk looked very close to the Studiotek. So, the Firehawk was the best all around screen.


They also had one of the new black screens (really dark grey). That was very cool. With the lights all the way up it looked fantastic. There very expensive at this time but you could see all the possiblities these screens will allow. Instead of having to buy a very expensive and not so reliable 60" plasma for your living room, you could have the reliability and cost of a FP in full light situations.


Another interesting thing to think about: They would hold a white screen sample in front of the grey screen and it would light up the wall beside the screen. That made the contrast appear less. General rule again was if you have a dedicated room and could paint the walls black, you would be fine. Most people can't do dedicated rooms and the wife won't let them paint the walls black. So another vote for the grey screens.


They also recently toured the Stewart Factory. I think Stewart is the only manufacturer that has a machine that sprays the screen on the ceiling so overspray and larger particles don't fall on the screen. Also, they have the same people making all the screens so they don't know if they're making it for you or for the Emmys.


They're dealers for most brands. I believe they sell more Dalites than anything due to price. After doing back to backs with Dalite and Stewart, they believe that the Stewart is the superior screen, but it costs about 30% more.


It was cool to see how different the screens accually were. I haven't decide which way to go yet. I'm shooting on my painted wall and it looks great for now but I will eventually get a screen. I really like the Vutec Silver Star's brightness.


If any one is interesed, they also did a projector shoot out with these projectors. If you are curious what I thought, just send me a PM.


Panasonic AE900

Sanyo Z4

Optima H-79

Infocus I think 7205

Incocus 777

Sim ? 3 chip DLP

JVC I forget the number but it was there new 1080p unit.


----------



## SmX

I know this may not do much for you guys, but here is a picture of the 3 samples on my wall.





















The one on the left is the High Contrast Cinema Perf.

The one in the middle is the Audio Vision

The one on the right is the High Contrast Audio Vision


----------



## ebr

The fact that the samples are not stretched tightly is hurting them a bit (making shadows in the folds) but boy, you can really see those perf's huh?


Send away for a sample of the Dazian CCC. I'd love to see how much worse/better/the same it is


----------



## mike mcdaniel

Here ya go.... This is one place.... I will post another place when i go to work tomorrow and find out the name of the company. They are located here in Georgia but do not have a website..... Hope this helps !!!!







Mike

Speaker grill material


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike mcdaniel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here ya go.... This is one place.... I will post another place when i go to work tomorrow and find out the name of the company. They are located here in Georgia but do not have a website..... Hope this helps !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> Speaker grill material



Thanks for that link Mike. There is a Steel factory by me that manufactures and sells these by the 4 x 8 Sheet. IIRC they are about $300 a Sheet. They will cut to size as well.


Ruben


----------



## larryep

ruben


here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, the post by 68sting is the one that tells the most about the reasons for the different screen materials. I have the Stewart Grayhawk (was the first high contrast screen material from any manufacturers) and it was developed for the LCD projectors since they don't have a way to completely turn off the light on pixels. Using an LCD projector with a gray screen helps the blacks. With all the new DLP projectors especially with the darkchip technology and such, the high-contrast screens are not needed as much unless you can't control the light in your room. Since you have a dedicated room with total light control, I would probably go with something that is not a negative gain.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *larryep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ruben
> 
> 
> here is link for an alternative for screens. not sure on this yet. sounds like a versin of blackout cloth, but wide rolls for larger screens.
> http://b-adeals.com/ProductScreenWhiteFire.htm



Thanks for that link Larry, but it doesn't mention if the screen is accoustically transparent or what. I need a Screen I can Set up my 2 Mains and center behind.


I ordered a Sample of Dazian CCC since allot of people are liking it. Gonna See what that brings to the plate.


Ruben


----------



## larryep

sorry, i recalled your post about sample screen material. they don't send large enough samples. after that post i went TO the dyi screen forum . I am also on hunt for RAW screen material.

2 ft. x 6 ft would be nice samples.


----------



## SmX

Well I found out the Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Material is $10 a Square foot

and The Stewart Micro Perf Material is $65.00 a Square Foot if I want to make my own frame..


Now I paid around $1,500.00 for My 135" Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Perf Cinema Contour Fixed Frame with Pro Trim.


So Da-Lite Gets like $900.00 for a Frame? Is the frame that good?


Ruben


----------



## bpape

Well, I'd bet you that if you put the Micro-Perf up there that the perfs wouldn't be nearly as noticable.


As for the frame cost, I can't say. I guess it's what the market will bear. I'd guess that you'd not find a lot of difference in the manufacturers from this standpoint. I know the my Stewart is very nicely built, very sturdy, easy to assemble and hang, etc.


----------



## SVonhof

The frame was the main reason I bought the Stewart screen. I liked the shape of the frame as well as the snap attachments to the frame and the velux treatment of the frame (to make sure the image has sharp edges and allows you to set the projector to bleed over onto the frame).


Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dude, you should have taken a few days out of your schedule and gone to Vegas this week for CES!




Shoulda, Coulda, woulda.


----------



## HTScotty

Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HTScotty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman, did ya get my pm?



Yep, PMed you back.


----------



## SmX

Hey Folks,


Just an Update. Been Spending a couple Days trying to get the Color right for the Wood. I finally got the Combo to Use for the Stain and Filler. It's a pretty big process to get the look I want. There is like 13 Steps to complete the Finish I want but it will look incredible when finished.


To Explain the Process, it takes mixing 2 colors of Stains together to get the Color I like, then cut it 50/50% with a thinner.


1) First you have to prep the Veneer with 2 Sandings, a 120 Grit then a 220 Grit.

2) Then you Dust It off.

3) Then Spray the Stain on & Let it dry for like 30 minutes.

4) Then mix a grain Filler.

5) Wipe on the Grain Filler with a Burlap cloth to fill up the grains and accent them so the grains look darker and pop out. Let It Dry for 4 Hours - 6 hours after that.

6) Wipe grain Filler off.

7) Sand with a 320 grit.

8) Dust Off.

9) Shoot 1st Coat of Clear & Let Dry.

10) Sand with a 320 Grit.

11) Shoot 2nd Coat of Clear & Let Dry.

12) Steel Wool Rub

13) Wax


So the good News Is, I can now begin to move forward with the Staining and finishing process.


Fun, Fun, Fun


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Let me be the first to say " Oh my goodness!".


Your attention to detail is amazing! If I took the time to put that kind of detail into my HT Room my 2 year project would turn into 6 years. I can't wait to see the finished room. Makes me ashamed to be thinking of putting up my own construction thread.


Keep up the great work it gives us "wannabees" something to strive for.


Rob


----------



## SmX

Today my Stewart Perf Screen Samples came in. They Sent me like 8 different perforated Samples. Stewarts Micro Perf has the Smallest Holes. Stewarts Cinema Perf has Larger holes than the Da-Lite.


Here are some 100% Size Samples of the Stewart and Da-Lite Perfs


Da-Lite Audio Vision










Stewarts 200 Cinema










Stewarts 130 Micro Perf










Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Vision










Stewarts Firehawk Cinema










Stewarts Firehawk Micro Perf


----------



## ebr

Wow - I know it looks worse than it is cuz we're getting such a close up shot of it but I have to think any digital (fixed pixel) display is going to have a problem with any one of those.


I have a sample of the Dazian CCC. It doesn't have any "holes". It is a weaved fabric and looks much more like something I can live with for an AT screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rob_McArthur* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let me be the first to say " Oh my goodness!".
> 
> 
> Your attention to detail is amazing! If I took the time to put that kind of detail into my HT Room my 2 year project would turn into 6 years. I can't wait to see the finished room. Makes me ashamed to be thinking of putting up my own construction thread.
> 
> 
> Keep up the great work it gives us "wannabees" something to strive for.
> 
> 
> Rob



Awwwe Shuckss







Thanks


There is no need to be ashamed of starting your own construction thread. We all have tips and techniques to teach each other. I have learned so much info and stole so many ideas from the guys here at AVS, its crazy. Your now all welcomed to Steal any ideas you like from me










We all should just be thankful we have the extra money to blow on these luxuries regardless of how it gets done











Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow - I know it looks worse than it is cuz we're getting such a close up shot of it but I have to think any digital (fixed pixel) display is going to have a problem with any one of those.
> 
> 
> I have a sample of the Dazian CCC. It doesn't have any "holes". It is a weaved fabric and looks much more like something I can live with for an AT screen.



Yep, and those are all from my Scanner at 100% Size. So the hole size and pattern from sample to sample is actual size on your monitor.


Sit 10 feet Back from your Monitor and thats how it will look on your wall.


The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Stewart Micro Perf is the Best Bet out these samples.
> 
> Ruben



That's why it costs so much! All those little holes, somebody has to put them in! Think of the poor soul who is over in the corner, trying to put in all those holes, one at a time with a little bitty hole-punch. His eyesight has been degrading for years, but he keeps on going like the Energizer bunny....


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's why it costs so much! All those little holes, somebody has to put them in! Think of the poor soul who is over in the corner, trying to put in all those holes, one at a time with a little bitty hole-punch. His eyesight has been degrading for years, but he keeps on going like the Energizer bunny....



You would think they would be able to afford a laser hole puncher by now. I saw the tool they use to make those holes in this online video introduction, its a mini paper hole punch and they have 3 guys in the Factory punching those holes 1 by 1. I guess they use the Rolls Royce Way "Made By Hand"


----------



## Frank D

SandmanX,


What about a Clearpix screen. CAP2 is the preferred material, I belive. There is supposed to be no visual holes ie. no moire. No EQ is required either.


Here is the thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=585552


----------



## SmX

Update:


Well Today was a Semi Productive Day. We Got all the Prep Sanding Done of all the Veneer Columns, Light trays and Rack Trim.


We spot cleaned out the whole Theater to make sure Dust isn't flying around and we Shot our Stain on the Columns, Rack Trim and Light trays.


So tomorrow we will begin the grain filling and start getting these treatments up on the Walls.


I started a Personal Blog with all the Updates with Pictures.


New Update Tomorrow.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> 
> What about a Clearpix screen. CAP2 is the preferred material, I belive. There is supposed to be no visual holes ie. no moire. No EQ is required either.
> 
> 
> Here is the thread:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=585552




Yeah, I looked into Screen Research ClearPix 2.

I requested Screen Samples from them twice and never got anything. They are pretty pricey screens as well, almost up there with Stewarts. I'm Also still waiting on my Dazian CCC Sample to come in.


I'm gonna throw all the Stewart and Da-Lite Samples on the Wall tonight and see what the Difference is. I will update you guys Tomorrow.


----------



## johnson_sb

Ruben,

Good luck getting Dazian samples through their website. I think I've tried ordering samples 2 or 3 times and got nothing. Luckily, I don't really need them yet, but I plan to call next time.


----------



## ebr

My Dazian sample arrived in about 5 days. I guess its hit or miss cuz I've heard of others having problems too.


I guess maybe the ClearPix stuff is really good (it costs a fortune) but I have a hard time believing its that much better than this Dazian stuff. For $80 I'm gonna find out I guess. Now that I think about it, I probably better order my Dazian fabric before they wake up and realize they can start charging $2,000 for it...


P.S. Here's a link to some measurements a guy took for some different acoustically transparent screen materials - including the Dazian. Doesn't address picture quality, but they are interesting. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...048f6b4ab99836


----------



## SmX

So Last Night I Set up all my Screen Samples on the Wall Side By Side. Myself and a few friends Sat down to try to determine the Better Looking Sample. After sitting there for an hour, the conclusion was...


The Picture Quality was the Same on all of them.

Besides The Screen Samples with the High Gains were really Bright and Glowing Looking (Hot Spot).

The Grey Screens had the Darker Colors / High Contrast.


The Stewarts and Dalite White Matte Screens Completely Dissapeared on the Painted Textured wall. I was really Shocked to see that the Very Expensive Stewarts white Matte performed the Same as the Da-lite and the Same as the Painted Wall.


So it made me feel a hell of allot better I didn't Drop $6k on a Stewart.


The Only nicer thing about the Stewart over the Da-Lite was the Micro Perfs. I liked the Micr0-Perf much nicer. But at 10 Feet Away from the Screen, the Da-Lite Perfs were really unnoticable.


I don't Know If I was wrong expecting the Colors to be Better with a Better Screen or the picture to be clearer than just shooting on a regular textured painted wall.

I Feel that an Audio Transparent Cloth like a Dazian CCC will probably be the Best Bet as far as picture wise and Audio transparency IMO due to not having Perfs in the material.


Here Some Pictures...


----------



## GPowers

Out of the nine samples i like number 8 and 9. counting top to bottom, left to right.


From the distant you shot the photos some of the micro-perf screens look out of focus and the gray samples look too dark. Just MHO.


----------



## MaximAvs

I agree with GPowers! The picture is not deformed at all in 8 and 9!!


Sean


----------



## jikkjack

I wish the screen manufacturers had to explain why the image quality is equal or worse (not better) than the image quality on the wall.







Then defend the prices they charge for screens. LOL.


Maybe your projector is too sexy for your screen?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximAvs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with GPowers! The picture is not deformed at all in 8 and 9!!
> 
> 
> Sean




The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.

Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.


----------



## platdaddy

Good Luck!


----------



## s-one

Yea man.. 9 looks good.


----------



## MaximAvs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.
> 
> Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.



Is a perforated screen a neccessity for you?!


Cause you could get a $14 piece of Do-Able (49"x96") at HD for a nice screen! And put the other $5986 towards a nice set of theater seating!


Sean


----------



## TLJester




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Best part of it all is, The Picture is really Not Deformed on the Wall either.
> 
> Even better, The Wall doesn't cost $6k.



Sounds like (as long as you can do it) the wall is the winner !


I do LOVE that the wall is just SOOO good over the very expensive screens


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximAvs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is a perforated screen a neccessity for you?!
> 
> 
> Cause you could get a $14 piece of Do-Able (49"x96") at HD for a nice screen!
> 
> 
> Sean



Yeah, I need to put the Speakers behind the Screen.


I have a question for you guys. I have a 135" Diagonal Da-Lite High Contrast Cinema Contour Perforated Screen Sitting on my Floor un-opened. After seeing all the Different screen Samples, I feel anything will prove just as well. I paid $1,600.00 for the 135" Screen and I'm thinking of returning it. Prob is they want to charge me a 15% restocking fee on an unopened box which is like $255.00 Plus $100.00 Shipping. Should I return the Screen and take the Small Loss of $350.00 or keep it and take the Loss of $1,600.00 and Have something to show for the loss?


I'm the kind of person that doesn't mind paying to have top Notch stuff. But if the Product doesn't show an improvement or even a slight improvement for the money, I back off. Nevermind show no improvement for a Large chunk of Money. The only thing that probably performs better (I don't really know) is the Frame that the Screen Material Attaches to. I hope the frame is what these people are charging all this Money for, cause I cant Justify spending $6k on Stewart Screen Material.


Ruben


----------



## theirishgonzo

i just found this thread and wow awsome work. and a superb design. i like the screen meteral botom row seccond to the right.


my room is a similar sixe but i have a way shorter celing and a few ducts and i beams in the way. my first row is at 14 feet and the back row is at 18 feet the back has great pq but the rear suround is a little strong the front is great and has great sq.


when i buld my new theater i may barrow some of your great ideas.


----------



## ebr

I would return it. But that's just me.


----------



## HoMac

I would test VideoGon or AudioGon and have someone happily to pay your shipping. Too bad, your screen do not fit my room.


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


You could ebay it or sell it here in the for sale section. You may be able to minimize your loses instead of paying the restocking fees. Just a thought. Have you looked at the Carada screens?


Bud


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, you keep saying $6k for the Stewart, I assume that is for a micro-perf screen? I can tell you that the frame I have on my Stewart Luxus Delux is worth some money. If you wanted to re-create that frame, it wouldn't be easy.


If you wanted to make something that would perform similarly, it could be done, out of wood fairly cheaply and placed around a wood frame that fabric has been stretched around. The problem with making your own detachable outer frame would be sag. Over time, the wood would sag.


If you don't mind not having a black frame around the image, you could do a simple wood frame with material stretched around it. I wanted the black frame to give the sharp edges.


Material is where Stewart really spends the money though. Micro-perf is not a cheap option, but my Stewart 100" Diagonal Luxus Delux with Velux covering on the frame was less than your 135" Da-Lite.


Also, if you have the space, you could put the main speakers behind fabric on the sides of the screen and the center channel could go above the screen, that way, you wouldn't need the perforated screen... But that is probably too large a design change this far into it.


----------



## ebr

I made a frame for my Parkland screen with 1x4s wrapped in black felt. Worked great, looked just as good as the stewart I had before and didn't sag in 2 years.


Just FYI...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> You could ebay it or sell it here in the for sale section. You may be able to minimize your loses instead of paying the restocking fees. Just a thought. Have you looked at the Carada screens?
> 
> 
> Bud



Thanks for that info Bud,


Carada Doesn't come Perforated as far as I know. I may give Videogon and AVS a shot at Selling this. I didn't even think of that










Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, you keep saying $6k for the Stewart, I assume that is for a micro-perf screen? I can tell you that the frame I have on my Stewart Luxus Delux is worth some money. If you wanted to re-create that frame, it wouldn't be easy.
> 
> 
> If you wanted to make something that would perform similarly, it could be done, out of wood fairly cheaply and placed around a wood frame that fabric has been stretched around. The problem with making your own detachable outer frame would be sag. Over time, the wood would sag.
> 
> 
> If you don't mind not having a black frame around the image, you could do a simple wood frame with material stretched around it. I wanted the black frame to give the sharp edges.
> 
> 
> Material is where Stewart really spends the money though. Micro-perf is not a cheap option, but my Stewart 100" Diagonal Luxus Delux with Velux covering on the frame was less than your 135" Da-Lite.
> 
> 
> Also, if you have the space, you could put the main speakers behind fabric on the sides of the screen and the center channel could go above the screen, that way, you wouldn't need the perforated screen... But that is probably too large a design change this far into it.



Thanks SVonhof,


Yes, It was for a Micro perf Screen. I could probably find a lower price if I looked harder. Moving the Speakers wider apart won't work at this point. I just need to do an accoustically transparent screen.



Ruben


----------



## ebr

Sandman - here's the Dazian CCC just FYI. Picture taken from about 3 feet.


----------



## mashtun




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TLJester* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like (as long as you can do it) the wall is the winner !
> 
> 
> I do LOVE that the wall is just SOOO good over the very expensive screens



I have used my PJ to show Xbox, and movies on any number of surfaces, Da-lite screens, Backs of Garages, House siding, Insides of Garage doors, and for my money one of the best screens was a 99 Cent plastic picnic tablecloth taped to a garage door.










If you ever want a moble screen just go to the dollar strore and buy some table cloths, and some masking tape. Cost $2!


Seriously the yellow wall in my living room was just as good as the Da-Lite screen, and didn't cost me anything. It came free with my $130K house. Such a deal!










I just can't see spending 1k for a screen never mind 6, because i just don't see the inprovement in the picture..


John


----------



## SmX

Well we got the Finish of 1 column done. We Should have all the Columns finished with the First Clear Coat tonight. Here is a quick Picture of the Finish with the first clear coat. It still needs to be Sanded with a 320 grit then another coat of clear and then possibly another Sanding and final coat of Clear.


----------



## ebr

Wow, that is beautiful.


You feel like coming up to NC in a few months to do some more wood finishing...?


----------



## alexsmith2k

Colums look awsome,


Just wondering the grooves you routed into the colums, im assuming the veneer goes upto the edge not around the grooves...


How did you finish the edge of the veneer ?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, that is beautiful.
> 
> 
> You feel like coming up to NC in a few months to do some more wood finishing...?



Thanks Man. After this theater is Done, We are starting a huge wall unit to house a 1,000 Gallon Reef Tank. Trying to get the work done. By Then, I would Have had it with finishing


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alexsmith2k* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Colums look awsome,
> 
> 
> Just wondering the grooves you routed into the colums, im assuming the veneer goes upto the edge not around the grooves...
> 
> 
> How did you finish the edge of the veneer ?



Thanks Alex,


Sanded and Painted. The Grooves are so smooth, its looks already finished. Some Black Paint and 1/2" Edgebanding completes the grooves.


----------



## darkman2003

Sandman,


You're truly a INSPIRATION !!! to all the newbie DIY in this forum.


I have learn so much from reading your thread.I dare to dream how my Home Theater


will look after reading your thread . Great Great looking column !!!!


Darkman


----------



## xxwabbit

Truly an amazing thread. And the person who decides to rip everything out if you move, should be shot! I've now been inspired as well. Had no idea people do this sort of thing. I am an avid movie goer, at least once a week, so this is right up my alley. Now I just need some money.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkman2003* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> You're truly a INSPIRATION !!! to all the newbie DIY in this forum.
> 
> 
> I have learn so much from reading your thread.I dare to dream how my Home Theater
> 
> 
> will look after reading your thread . Great Great looking column !!!!
> 
> 
> Darkman




Thanks Man, Everyone Here at AVS is an inspiration to me. This is a great place to learn everything you need to about HT and Audio.


Ruben


----------



## ScottS

For those interested in another set of screen tests, these were done several years ago...

http://crimdom.net/home-theatre/screens.html


----------



## BizarroTerl

Ruben,

Will you be posting your progress on the reef tank anywhere?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BizarroTerl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Will you be posting your progress on the reef tank anywhere?



Probably, I will post here when I start it.


----------



## SmX

Just An Update.


We are going to build a HTPC to Play Movie Files (VOB Files), Music, Tuner, Etc.

I have a 16 Bay Infostation with 16 400 Gig drives already so that gives me 6 terabytes of storage for DVDs. 800 Gigs for Every 100 Movies I archive. I will Keep the Newest Stuff and the Classics on this system.


I posted for some tips in the HTPC Forum Yesterday and got 1 response so Far.


If anyone has done this, let me know.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xxwabbit* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Truly an amazing thread. And the person who decides to rip everything out if you move, should be shot! I've now been inspired as well. Had no idea people do this sort of thing. I am an avid movie goer, at least once a week, so this is right up my alley. Now I just need some money.



Wabbit, since you are a frequent movie goer, you may find that once you actually do make your own home theater, you won't be able to stand going to the local cineplex since the home experience can be so much better. The last time I was at a commercial movie theater was when I was doing some travelling for work and had nothing better to do.


----------



## Gerry S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just An Update.
> 
> 
> We are going to build a HTPC to Play Movie Files (VOB Files), Music, Tuner, Etc.
> 
> I have a 16 Bay Infostation with 16 400 Gig drives already so that gives me 6 terabytes of storage for DVDs. 800 Gigs for Every 100 Movies I archive. I will Keep the Newest Stuff and the Classics on this system.
> 
> 
> I posted for some tips in the HTPC Forum Yesterday and got 1 response so Far.
> 
> 
> If anyone has done this, let me know.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Sweet hardware. Can't comment on any front end software to catalog your music/movies. Just thought I would give you something to think about concerning managing your drive space (and forgive me if you already know this). If losing a hard drive, and the data it contains concerns you, you might want to consider setting up that drive array with a RAID 1 configuration. What this does is mirror the data across two drives. Therefore if one fails, you have redundancy and don't skip a beat. The downside is that you cut your data storage in half, so you will only have 3 terabytes of storage if you go RAID 1.


-Gerry


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sweet hardware. Can't comment on any front end software to catalog your music/movies. Just thought I would give you something to think about concerning managing your drive space (and forgive me if you already know this). If losing a hard drive, and the data it contains concerns you, you might want to consider setting up that drive array with a RAID 1 configuration. What this does is mirror the data across two drives. Therefore if one fails, you have redundancy and don't skip a beat. The downside is that you cut your data storage in half, so you will only have 3 terabytes of storage if you go RAID 1.
> 
> 
> -Gerry



Raid 5 is the way to go. It doesn't Waste as Much Space as a Raid 1. The "wasted" disk space in our case would be about 15 - 20%.


RAID-5 stripes data at the block level and also utilizes parity. With the RAID-5 technology, user information and parity are combined on every disk in the array. Independent and/or parallel data read and write operations are performed. This RAID is the most popular of all RAIDS. RAID-5 is not as fast as RAID-0 and does not provide as much protection as RAID-1 mirroring. RAID-5 provides good-speed and good protection. This is why it is often the RAID level of choice especially for HT archiving.


Ruben


----------



## darkman2003

Holy Smoke that's a lot of storage !!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - here's the Dazian CCC just FYI. Picture taken from about 3 feet.



You mind as well Send it out to me, doesn't look like I'm ever gonna get it from Dazian







Maybe I should just order the amount I would need, It's only $40 after all.


To my Suprise, A friend of Mine is a Screen Research dealer here in Fl. and said he would give me dealer prices if I was interested. He Sent Me over some Prices and they Were a little bit more than the Da-Lite I got.


From what a few people told me here, Screen Research Clear Pix Movie Screens are Suppose to be the Best Screens on the market. He is getting me a Sample to Look at.


Ruben


----------



## jay07059




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Raid 5 is the way to go. It doesn't Waste as Much Space as a Raid 1. The "wasted" disk space in our case would be about 15 - 20%.
> 
> 
> RAID-5 stripes data at the block level and also utilizes parity. With the RAID-5 technology, user information and parity are combined on every disk in the array. Independent and/or parallel data read and write operations are performed. This RAID is the most popular of all RAIDS. RAID-5 is not as fast as RAID-0 and does not provide as much protection as RAID-1 mirroring. RAID-5 provides good-speed and good protection. This is why it is often the RAID level of choice especially for HT archiving.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I can vouch for RAID 5. It is an excellent solution. I would however, in this situation, push for RAID 10. You would probably need a newer SATA card (Assuming they are SATA drives). I don't think you can use RAID 10 on PATA. Also, if you go with RAID 5, make sure you use the controller to do it, do not use software RAID, as you will lose a lot of performance, and can be a pain to rebuild the arrays if you lose the OS.


I do this stuff for a living with servers at work. Ideally, we use a RAID 1 for the OS array, and RAID 10 for data. You will lose one or two drives using RAID 10 over RAID 5, but the performance improvement is pretty high. RAID 5 and 10 are excellent for reads, which is most of what you would be doing. Not too many writes, so I would skip RAID 0.


Jay


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jay07059* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can vouch for RAID 5. It is an excellent solution. I would however, in this situation, push for RAID 10. You would probably need a newer SATA card (Assuming they are SATA drives). I don't think you can use RAID 10 on PATA. Also, if you go with RAID 5, make sure you use the controller to do it, do not use software RAID, as you will lose a lot of performance, and can be a pain to rebuild the arrays if you lose the OS.
> 
> 
> I do this stuff for a living with servers at work. Ideally, we use a RAID 1 for the OS array, and RAID 10 for data. You will lose one or two drives using RAID 10 over RAID 5, but the performance improvement is pretty high. RAID 5 and 10 are excellent for reads, which is most of what you would be doing. Not too many writes, so I would skip RAID 0.
> 
> 
> Jay



Yeah, they are SATA Serial ATA Drives. Im using an Atto Celerity Dual Fibre Card with the info Station. But today I tried to Rip "The Cave" with MacTheRipper on a Apple G5 and I got a "Intentional Bad Sector" Error. I think they are encoding DVD's with newer Methods.


So who knows if Doing a Storage Solution for Movies is Gonna work in the Future? Maybe a DVD Jukebox would be a slower but better solution?


----------



## SmX

Update:


We cut up all our Cotton for the Bass Traps that's going on the Stage. This is the Hardest Stuff to Cut. First I tried a Regular Utility Knife to Cut it and it did not work. I even tried to compress the Cotton and Cut it and still no Dice. So I picked up a carpet Cutting Blade (Double Sided) and that didn't work. I also tried to use a large pair of snippers almost like Giantic Scissors and nothing. It could be cut with a Blade, but it would take about 20 cuts in multiple angles to get through this stuff with a uneven Sloppy finish, plus it dulls the blades in 5 cuts.


So I tried calling a few furniture makers to See if they had a Large Shear to cut this, and nobody had one. So my crazy friend grabbed the table Saw put the Blade all the way up and Cut it. What do you know, it cut like a charm. I figured the cotton would get caught on the blade and cut his hand off







but it didn't. So we cut up all our triangle pieces of the Blue Cotton for the 2 bass traps going on the Stage. These basically get Stacked from the floor to the Soffit in the Corners on the Stage.












The 2" Black Cotton in the Picture below is what we are using for our First reflection points.












Here is the Da-Lite 133" High Contrast Cinema Vision with a Cinema Contour Frame and Pro Trim that I will Be Listing for Sale Shortly.


This is one Long ass Box


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> We cut up all our Cotton for the Bass Traps that's going on the Stage. This is the Hardest Stuff to Cut.



We use a very similar material at work when dealing with noise in vehicles. The best thing we found was an electric bread/carving knife(I'm sure you got one as a wedding gift...just don't tell the wife







).


----------



## SmX

How Do I become an AVS Club Member so I can List My Screen on this Site? I looked High and Low for where you sign up with no luck.


----------



## jrfuda

Sandman: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/subscriptions.php?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/subscriptions.php?



Thanks!


----------



## SmX

Ok I Listed My 133" Screen For Sale in the AVS Market Place...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=628640 


I Have For Sale, a Brand new 133" Diagonal (122" x 71") Da-Lite 16:9 High Contrast Cinema Perf Fixed Screen with the Cinema Contour Frame and Pro Trim. This is Brand New in the Box, we didn't even open it. We Changed our minds about doing a 16:9 screen and we are now going to do a 2.35:1 Constant height.


So instead of Returning it and paying a 15% restocking fee, I am going to try and Sell it. I paid $1,697.48 for it and the Pro-Trim on 12/15/05.

*I will take best offers by PM or Email *


The Box is 8" x 9" x 130" and Weighs 45 lbs.

I can Ship or you can Pick Up Locally in Boca Raton, Florida.

I have a Pay Pal account.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SRH1

A DVD jukebox is the way to go. I work for a company that makes these, mostly for business data storage but we had a guy buy one for his home. It was our largest unit that held just over 2000 DVD's and had 12 drives. He had a very large house with monitors in every room, he could watch a different movie in 12 different rooms at the same time.


----------



## davidr2340




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BizarroTerl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Will you be posting your progress on the reef tank anywhere?



I would love to see that also!!!


Amazing work Sandman!!!

Thanks for this thread!!!


David


----------



## SmX

Update:


Well Today all the Staining and 2 Coats of Clear got Finished on the Columns, Light Tray and Equipment Rack Trim. What a Long Ass Process to get the Staining done, I think it delayed things like 2 weeks between getting the Color Right and Shooting tons of Samples with finishes. But we finally Got There!


So Finally, we can now begin the Wall treatments in the next Day or 2.


No matter how hard I try to take pictures of These columns, the Color keeps coming out way off with my Camera. The real Color is a Deep Cherry/Cranberry Color. When I take pictures, it comes out Fire Engine Red, which its far from.


The Columns now look like real Expensive Furniture.


Ruben


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No matter how hard I try to take pictures of These columns, the Color keeps coming out way off with my Camera. The real Color is a Deep Cherry/Cranberry Color. When I take pictures, it comes out Fire Engine Red, which its far from.
> 
> 
> The Columns now look like real Expensive Furniture.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Photoshop is your friend! You can use it to adjust the levels to make it look correct. I do this when trying to show a very bright color, like day glo orange. Florescent colors don't photograph well, and most reds are difficult to reproduce also. If your not good at photoshop, I bet if you post a link, someone would fix the color for you.


----------



## SVonhof

Sandman (Ruben), get used to the colors not showing up right. I can't get a single picture of my theater that correctly shows the colors. Once you get fabric in the theater, the camera will start to choke because the light gets sucked up by the fabric and everything shows up dark. If you have a digital SLR (I assume you do) you can open the aperture all the way up and bring in more lights and it will be close, but never match.


----------



## i70x7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRH1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A DVD jukebox is the way to go. I work for a company that makes these, mostly for business data storage but we had a guy buy one for his home. It was our largest unit that held just over 2000 DVD's and had 12 drives. He had a very large house with monitors in every room, he could watch a different movie in 12 different rooms at the same time.



I've got one of the 400 disc Sony changers and will be buying a second one next month. I agree though, I can't go back to pre-jukebox days.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *i70x7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got one of the 400 disc Sony changers and will be buying a second one next month. I agree though, I can't go back to pre-jukebox days.



Here goes the Thousand Questions...


How does the Video Quality compare to the Pioneer Elite av59 or Marantz DVD Player?


Is there any macroblocking issues like the Denons had?


How fast do they change discs?


Can you scroll through covers pretty fast on the screen and pick a title?


How Do You organize movies in the Jukebox? By Software?


What are some Good Hi end jukeboxes for me to look into?

I have about 1,000 DVDs


----------



## ebr

You are probably going to want to look into something like the Escient stuff http://www.escient.com/products/dvdm552.html 


I don't think the standard changers like I have (Pio Elite DVF-09) will make you happy.


----------



## i70x7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here goes the Thousand Questions...
> 
> 
> How does the Video Quality compare to the Pioneer Elite av59 or Marantz DVD Player?
> 
> 
> Is there any macroblocking issues like the Denons had?
> 
> 
> How fast do they change discs?
> 
> 
> Can you scroll through covers pretty fast on the screen and pick a title?
> 
> 
> How Do You organize movies in the Jukebox? By Software?
> 
> 
> What are some Good Hi end jukeboxes for me to look into?
> 
> I have about 1,000 DVDs



I will be honest, the changer is not the best. Changing movies is pretty quick, there are no macroblocking issues, but the on-screen management sucks massively. It has built in software to organize the DVDs, but I ended up building my own complete management/control system. You can see some details here: http://theater.joshmeier.com/MovieMarquee.htm


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *i70x7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will be honest, the changer is not the best. Changing movies is pretty quick, there are no macroblocking issues, but the on-screen management sucks massively. It has built in software to organize the DVDs, but I ended up building my own complete management/control system. You can see some details here: http://theater.joshmeier.com/MovieMarquee.htm



i70x7,


Now you've done it and opened a can of worms







I do programming myself and really like the look of you app. Well done!! So, have you decided to distribute it yet?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i70x7,
> 
> 
> Now you've done it and opened a can of worms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do programming myself and really like the look of you app. Well done!! So, have you decided to distribute it yet?



Swithey, Can you hook me up with those HT Demo Tree's you Got?

Can you PM me a Link to get them?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jrfuda

I use a Sony DVP-CX777ES 400 Disc Changer to store my DVDs and control/manage it via Cinemar's DVDLobby program. I use it in conjunction with an HTPC/Automation PC to play genre and soundtrack appropriate trailers while the changer loads (about 60-seconds) and can even have trivia and such play while people find there seats. I've just about reached capacity on my first changer and will likely buy a second this spring. The PC also slowly dims the lights as the trailers play with the appropriate light level set by the time the movie starts. The key feature of the CX777ES is its reliable serial control . The bad thing about using a changer is if you want to distribute video throughout the house - all monitors except for your theater will have to view modulated "TV quality stereo" video, and all watch the same thing.


I watch movies on a 50" RPLCD, so I can't really attest to how well movies output fromthe CX777ES will look on you big honkin screen, but the look awesome on my set.


If you shop around, you can get a CX777ES for around $500.

Get a low-end PC to control it for less than $600

Spend about $200 for Cinemar's MainLobby and DVDLobby software.

Probably Spend another $200 for cables (unless you like high-end stuff)

- So for about $1500 you can have a rather elegant solution to store and automate the showing of movies in your theater - selecting movies stored on the changer via the HTPC projected on your screen via remote control.

- For a bit more you can add an LCD touchscreen to your favorite theater chair to control everything, and for even more a wireless tablet PC.


Another option is to get a high-end HTPC and tons of storage (2+ Terabytes in RAID-5 configuration) and rip all your movies to HDD. You can still use DVDLobby to pick movies and control playback, and the beauty is - with your movies centrally stored - you can access them from any PC in the house in their original quality level (with a gigabit network). And the other beauty is the PC can do all your scaling for you and output DVI (wheras the CX777ES is component-out at its best).


Both of these are DIY-equivelants to the commercial/professional installer DVD Jukeboxes that exist, but go for much less (maybe as much as 10% of the cost of the pro systems.. $2,000 versus $20,000) and the end-results are largely the same. Checkout the offerings here: http://www.cinemaronline.com/ and check their forum as well: http://www.htpcservers.com/phpbb/ ...


BTW I have no affiliation with Cinemar other than being a happy customer and message board moderator


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Swithey, Can you hook me up with those HT Demo Tree's you Got?
> 
> Can you PM me a Link to get them?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


You have PM.


----------



## i70x7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i70x7,
> 
> 
> Now you've done it and opened a can of worms
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do programming myself and really like the look of you app. Well done!! So, have you decided to distribute it yet?



Thanks! I haven't decided to distribute it yet simply because I am still cleaning some things up and trying to make it more flexible. At the moment it's hard coded for my needs, but I am adding support for changing IR codes and the like.


If you are really interested I could send you the code and SQL schema and you could take a look at it. It's done in C# 2.0.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *i70x7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks! I haven't decided to distribute it yet simply because I am still cleaning some things up and trying to make it more flexible. At the moment it's hard coded for my needs, but I am adding support for changing IR codes and the like.
> 
> 
> If you are really interested I could send you the code and SQL schema and you could take a look at it. It's done in C# 2.0.



I'll take this off-line so not to hijack Sandman's thread. You have a PM waiting.


----------



## SmX

Figured I'd post some Pictures. I got the lighting a Little better today with the Camera and the colors are allot closer now to what they really are. Still they are off quite a bit, but at least everything doesn't look Fire Engine Red in these Pictures.


Today We got the last coat of the Finish on the Light Trays, Columns and Rack Trim. We paper Faced the Bottoms of all the Soffits, we made our bass traps for the Corners of the Stage (I will post pictures of this Later). And we Started putting fabric up.


Here are some Close ups of the Light trays finished, these shots are pretty accurate to the actual color (on my monitor anyway). The Columns, Light Trays and Rack Trim will all get a wax job as soon as the theater is near done to finish it and make the finish complete.


Another last note: The Web Compression and Lighting is making the Finish look a bit blotchy in the Pictures. The Finish is Just as good and even better than my $7k B&W 802's but just a different staining and Grain filling technique to accent the Grains better.





























The Columns, still the color is real off on these pictures of them, but they are the same color as the Light trays above. Notice how the color in the photos greatly vary below.





























Paper Facing the Soffits. Well Here we are paper facing the Soffits, I never thought I would get to this Point. The Soffits are filled with cotton to absorb the Bass. The Paper Facing keeps the room from getting overly dead due to cotton absorbing the reflections.





























This is a side Shot showing the Cotton, Soffit Framing and Paper. This side will get Enclosed.


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


Looking really nice. You are making me move that much faster.


Can you post a pic of the columns next to your B&Ws? Would love to see those beauties together


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Looking really nice. You are making me move that much faster.
> 
> 
> Can you post a pic of the columns next to your B&Ws? Would love to see those beauties together



LOL, That ain't gonna happen







The 802s weigh like 90 lbs each and they are in another part of my house. The columns are too big and bulky to risk scratching carrying through my house.


I'm a perfectionist. Take my word for it, the finish is incredibly nice










When the theater is Finished, I will have my friend who is a Professional Photographer come shoot the theater to the fullest.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I use a Sony DVP-CX777ES 400 Disc Changer to store my DVDs and control/manage it via Cinemar's DVDLobby program. I use it in conjunction with an HTPC/Automation PC to play genre and soundtrack appropriate trailers while the changer loads (about 60-seconds) and can even have trivia and such play while people find there seats. I've just about reached capacity on my first changer and will likely buy a second this spring. The PC also slowly dims the lights as the trailers play with the appropriate light level set by the time the movie starts. The key feature of the CX777ES is its reliable serial control . The bad thing about using a changer is if you want to distribute video throughout the house - all monitors except for your theater will have to view modulated "TV quality stereo" video, and all watch the same thing.
> 
> 
> I watch movies on a 50" RPLCD, so I can't really attest to how well movies output fromthe CX777ES will look on you big honkin screen, but the look awesome on my set.
> 
> 
> If you shop around, you can get a CX777ES for around $500.
> 
> Get a low-end PC to control it for less than $600
> 
> Spend about $200 for Cinemar's MainLobby and DVDLobby software.
> 
> Probably Spend another $200 for cables (unless you like high-end stuff)
> 
> - So for about $1500 you can have a rather elegant solution to store and automate the showing of movies in your theater - selecting movies stored on the changer via the HTPC projected on your screen via remote control.
> 
> - For a bit more you can add an LCD touchscreen to your favorite theater chair to control everything, and for even more a wireless tablet PC.
> 
> 
> Another option is to get a high-end HTPC and tons of storage (2+ Terabytes in RAID-5 configuration) and rip all your movies to HDD. You can still use DVDLobby to pick movies and control playback, and the beauty is - with your movies centrally stored - you can access them from any PC in the house in their original quality level (with a gigabit network). And the other beauty is the PC can do all your scaling for you and output DVI (wheras the CX777ES is component-out at its best).
> 
> 
> Both of these are DIY-equivelants to the commercial/professional installer DVD Jukeboxes that exist, but go for much less (maybe as much as 10% of the cost of the pro systems.. $2,000 versus $20,000) and the end-results are largely the same. Checkout the offerings here: http://www.cinemaronline.com/ and check their forum as well: http://www.htpcservers.com/phpbb/ ...
> 
> 
> BTW I have no affiliation with Cinemar other than being a happy customer and message board moderator



Awesome post jrfuda, a few pages back in my thread, I talked about building my Own HTPC. I have the Storage already (Storcase 16 Bay Fibre Infostation with 16 400 Gig SATA Drives).


For the HTPC I been Researching the Parts I'm gonna Use and this is what I'm gonna put together...


For the Case, I'm thinking of Going with a Siverstone with a 7" touchscreen on it. http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...es/sstlc18.asp 

or the D.Vine D5 Case or the mCubed. I was looking at Atech Stuff but it takes too long to get.


For the Mother Board I'm looking at the Abit AN8 ULTRA. It has 8 Channel Audio Built in via SPDIF/Optical and it is quieter than the SLI boards http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/...es=1&model=278 


For the Processor is either a Dual Core AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Processor or the AMD 4400+. But I am still reading up on the P4 processors and Multitasking.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80728-R 


The Video Card is gonna be an nVidia 7800 GTX


80 Gig internal Sata Drive


DVD Playback/Record Plextor DVD-R - Dual Layer possibbly?


For the main Chair Remote a Xenarc 700TS 7" Touch Screen
http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html 


What do you think.


----------



## bpape

I'd be very wary of any of the on-board audio solutions for your situation. You're building a showplace and have some nice equipment. Don't compromise it on a $4 chip.


You might also want to check out www.mwave.com - good service, good selection, good prices.


----------



## HTScotty

You have a PM










Oh, and so you know.... 1 hour of DVD-quality video will take around 4.2gb of space. Unless you watch and delete your shows, I'd opt for something larger for the hard drive.


----------



## Kevin Lowe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Awesome post jrfuda, a few pages back in my thread, I talked about building my Own HTPC. I have the Storage already (Storcase 16 Bay Fibre Infostation with 16 400 Gig SATA Drives).
> 
> 
> For the HTPC I been Researching the Parts I'm gonna Use and this is what I'm gonna put together...
> 
> 
> For the Case, I'm thinking of Going with a Siverstone with a 7" touchscreen on it. http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...es/sstlc18.asp
> 
> or the D.Vine D8 Case or the mCubed. I was looking at Atech Stuff but it takes too long to get.
> 
> 
> For the Mother Board I'm looking at the Abit AN8 ULTRA. It has 8 Channel Audio Built in via SPDIF/Optical and it is quieter than the SLI boards http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/...es=1&model=278
> 
> 
> For the Processor is either a Dual Core AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Processor or the AMD 4400+. But I am still reading up on the P4 processors and Multitasking.
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...ctCode=80728-R
> 
> 
> The Video Card is gonna be an nVidia 7800 GTX
> 
> 
> 80 Gig internal Sata Drive
> 
> 
> DVD Playback/Record Plextor DVD-R - Dual Layer possibbly?
> 
> 
> For the main Chair Remote a Xenarc 700TS 7" Touch Screen
> http://www.xenarc.com/product/700ts.html
> 
> 
> What do you think.



Sounds like a literal ton of power. However, a ton of power means a ton of noise - my PC's much more modest than that, and even after careful cable routing, new fans, a fan-throttling power supply, and all the effort I can put into making it quieter, it only seems quieter for a week or two before the noise starts to annoy me again. Consider using lower-power components (leaving yourself some headroom for more demanding codecs in the future, of course) and looking into some of the hardcore Silent PC enthusiast forums to build a HTPC that'll keep the noise down.


Or, there's always watercooling.


----------



## James Mos

For the audio section of your HTPC, may I make a suggestion for this card coming out in March http://bluegears.com/xraider.html On board 5.1 & 7.1 Dolby Digital & DTS encoding and will upconvert 2 channel audio to 5.1 or 7.1 in either format!!!


I know once my new home is completed and I re-build my HT, I'll be putting one of them bad boys into my htpc.


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HTScotty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You have a PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and so you know.... 1 hour of DVD-quality video will take around 4.2gb of space. Unless you watch and delete your shows, I'd opt for something larger for the hard drive.



I think 6.4 TERABYTES of storage is big enough







That is roughly 750 Hours of DVD quality video by your calculations.


Read it one more time, the 80 G is just the application HD, the storage is 16 X 400GB.


----------



## HTScotty

Doh!!..



Ya.. I see that now...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd be very wary of any of the on-board audio solutions for your situation. You're building a showplace and have some nice equipment. Don't compromise it on a $4 chip.
> 
> 
> You might also want to check out www.mwave.com - good service, good selection, good prices.




Ahh Man, I thought that would be the Best Sound







Thats why I was buying the Mother Board










I don't even know why I even mentioned the audio output on that card.

That would Be Funny, running a $20k System off a $8 chip.

How about some Apogee Converters?


----------



## exipnos

Hurry up and finish! I can't wait to see the end result of this with those beutiful columns. Are all the columns identical? The photo make some appear differnt size, is that to work with the raiser, or is it the angle of the photo making it appear so?


By the way what would you estimate material cost for columns?


Top notch results so far.


Cheers,


Exipnos


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *exipnos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hurry up and finish! I can't wait to see the end result of this with those beutiful columns. Are all the columns identical? The photo make some appear differnt size, is that to work with the raiser, or is it the angle of the photo making it appear so?
> 
> 
> By the way what would you estimate material cost for columns?
> 
> 
> Top notch results so far.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Exipnos



We Started the Fabric today, so hopefully we finish up Shortly. The Columns Are Identical but every pair is cut Different to accomodate the Stairs and the Platform.


As for the cost, The Half Rounds cost $90 in Material and the Boxes for the Back of the Columns cost $14 in Material. The Veneer was $35 a Sheet. So In end, $140.00 a Column before Stain. That obviously does not include Labor if You Need to pay someone.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## mmmkam

Looks GREAT!


I saw the post with the staining process a few pages back, but would you mind sharing the products (brands/colors/etc) that you used to achieve that color and finish?


Keep up the great work.


----------



## SmX

Well I figured I'd keep you guys happy and Post some pictures of the first Fabric Going up.


After speaking to BPape yesterday, he informed me we did the paper wrong on the Soffits undersides. It was suppose to be inside the soffit framing, not on the outside of the framing. So that was the first thing we took care of this morning. As you will see below, the Paper is now inside the Soffit framing. Also notice the Black 1" x 2" furring strips on the right side of the Soffit, this is wher we will Staple the fabric to.











We Stapled the Fabric to the 1" x 2"s for the Light tray side first to hide the Staples, here is the Big piece as we bring it in.











Fabric attached on the Light tray side.


For some of you web Surfers, you may recognize my helping hand







I'll give You a Hint... Sometimes his job Sucks, but most of the time it's banging. No Clue? See The Last picture of this post.











Tightening the Fabric by Tucking it in the crack..











Stapling it in place...











Tight as a conga...











A Shot of the run...


----------



## SmX

We Can't just do a straight butt joint where it ends, so the butt joints of the Fabric matches the Veneer butt Joints.





























Here is that Last Picture I promised.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks GREAT!
> 
> 
> I saw the post with the staining process a few pages back, but would you mind sharing the products (brands/colors/etc) that you used to achieve that color and finish?
> 
> 
> Keep up the great work.



The Staining process was quite a few Steps. We used ML Cambell WoodSong II Microton Toners


The Staining process required 2 colors.


1) First We Sanded the Veneer with a 120 Grit Sand Paper

2) Then we Sanded with a 220 Grit Sandpaper

3) Blow and Wipe the Saw Dust off

4) Then we Shot a 50% - 50% Mix of WoodSong II Microton Spray Stain and a Achohol Thinner. 3 Coats of this 50 - 50 went on. The Color we used at this Step was Cordovan, which is a dark Copper/Penny color.

5) Then we used a Mahogany Grain/Pore Filler that got rubbed on with a Burlap cloth and then Dried over night.

6) Next Day we removed the Grain Filler with a Turpentine and Steel Wool. Leaving the filler in all the Grains/open pores of the veneer. This Step accents the Grains and Fills them up. It also darkens the veneer a bit.

7) Then a Light Sanding with a 220 Grit.

8) Blow off Saw Dust and wipe with a Tack Cloth

9) The we used a ML Campbell Magnalac Satin Clear. We Mixed this with 25% of the ML Cambell WoodSOng II Red Spray Stain I posted a few pages back.

10) We Shot our First Coat of the Magnalac and Red Mix, let Dry an Hour.

11) Sand with a 320 Grit, Blow off Dust and use a Tack Cloth to wipe again

12) Then we Shot our Second Coat of the Magnalac and Red Mix, let Dry an Hour.

13) Rub with a Steel Wool, Blow off Dust and use a Tack Cloth to wipe again

14) Shoot your Final Coat of the Clear and Red Mix


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, as I was looking at the pics, the first thing I noticed that seemed out of place was that no safety glasses were being used! Oops. Even though the staple guns don't misfire often, it would be a good practice to wear them, since they are air driven...


Other than that, keep up the good work!


BTW, you have seen "A Christmas Story" right? "You'll shoot your eye out!"


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, as I was looking at the pics, the first thing I noticed that seemed out of place was that no safety glasses were being used! Oops. Even though the staple guns don't misfire often, it would be a good practice to wear them, since they are air driven...
> 
> 
> Other than that, keep up the good work!
> 
> 
> BTW, you have seen "A Christmas Story" right? "You'll shoot your eye out!"



Cmon, we all know Safety glasses are only for people who value their eyes









Yes folks, SVonhof is right, Don't try this at home. Nothing wrong with a little misfired nail hitting you in the eye







Ouch!


We usually have glasses around but they occasionally dissapear.


----------



## YldeSyde

I'm envious of all the fun I am missing out by not being there to help you out  I could have learned all of your tricks first-hand and brought them back to help swithey lol. Great work Sandman! As good as or more likely better than the pros could do. Next time I'm in Boca visiing my brother I'd love to see it.


----------



## SmX

Got My Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth Sample Today. Will test it out tonight and let you know what I thought.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

As Ice Cube Said, "Today was a Good Day"


All the pictures below came out Fire Engine Red Again, But you now know what the color is suppose to be.


We got all the Under Soffit GoM done, got 4 Columns installed. Everything else from here should move pretty fast. I got to thank BPape for recommending the alternation of colors. The contrast of colors is awesome.


These are Some shots of the Under Soffits corners where they Butt up against each other. When your Butt Joints are this Tight, you need to pat yourself on the back





































Here is a wider Shot.











Here is the top of a Column under the Soffit shot


----------



## Milt99

SandmanX,

Beautiful work. Redefines DIY.

Your attention to detail is mindblowing.

I've read through your thread and I looked for the details on your round columns but I must've missed it.

Would you minds giving me some details, please?

Where did you get them and what are they made of?

Thanks much.

Doug


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> Beautiful work. Redefines DIY.
> 
> Your attention to detail is mindblowing.
> 
> I've read through your thread and I looked for the details on your round columns but I must've missed it.
> 
> Would you minds giving me some details, please?
> 
> Where did you get them and what are they made of?
> 
> Thanks much.
> 
> Doug



Thank You For the Compliments. The Columns were all pretty much built from scratch by hand. Here is a link to the building of them http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6775081 


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## HeyNow^

Absolutely breathtaking.....I honestly believe that Sandman and Chinadog's threads should be stickys....They are the quintessential DIY theater step-by-step threads. I never miss a day checking your progress. Thanks to the both of you.


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


Nice work! Puts my cove to shame! What did you do for furring strips under the GOM, did you rip your own or did you buy 1x2s (might have missed it). Are you planning on crown or are you going to use the same technique for the walls? (attached GOM to the furring strip and then secure furring strip).


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Nice work! Puts my cove to shame! What did you do for furring strips under the GOM, did you rip your own or did you buy 1x2s (might have missed it). Are you planning on crown or are you going to use the same technique for the walls? (attached GOM to the furring strip and then secure furring strip).
> 
> 
> Bud



Hi Bud,


LOL, Your Place is far from cove. I envy the fact you got a whole consession area before you walk in the theater. No space for me to do that here







Oh well, maybe in my next Life. Once your treatments start going up, thats when the room starts taking shape. I was so sick of looking at Drywall at framing I wanted to hang myself







At least the room is starting to come together now.


As far as furring, we used regular hand picked Straight 1 x 2's painted Black for under the Soffits. The Wall treatments come out 2-1/4" off the Drywall, so they will cover the Staples. The wall panel frames will be made out of 1" x 3'"s ripped down to 1" x 2.25" with a 45 dregree Bevel. The wall panels will be made off the wall then attached with mounting Blocks and Industrial Velcro.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeyNow^* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Absolutely breathtaking.....I honestly believe that Sandman and Chinadog's threads should be stickys....They are the quintessential DIY theater step-by-step threads. I never miss a day checking your progress. Thanks to the both of you.



Thanks for Your Kind words. Its starting to take Shape!


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman you make me want to rip out and start again and I'm not even done yet.


Anyway I'm kind of curious about that kraft paper in the soffits. I would of thought that one should use something acousticly transparent with an open weave like landscape fabric or something "breathable".


any clues on the science of the paper?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman you make me want to rip out and start again and I'm not even done yet.
> 
> 
> Anyway I'm kind of curious about that kraft paper in the soffits. I would of thought that one should use something acousticly transparent with an open weave like landscape fabric or something "breathable".
> 
> 
> any clues on the science ot the paper?



Are You Crazy? You have one of the Best looking Theaters here on AVS.


The paper is just Regular craft paper from home depot. We cut the roll down to size on a table saw.


The Purpose of the Paper is to not over deaden the room by having absorbtion all under the soffits. The primary use of the Cotton in the Soffits is to absorb Bass but not absorb STCs. (Correct me if I'm wrong BPape)


Due to the type of Speakers I have, the treatments for the room are designed differently from the standard DE design allot of people use here. The treatment design is more concentrated on the type of speakers I use and is designed by a guy that takes huge pride in getting the best sound out of a room, BPape. Also meaning, the whole bottom half/below Ear level isn't treated all around the room, it is only treated at reflection points.


Ruben


----------



## jrfuda

Ruben, I'm blown away everytime I visit this thread... That's gonna be one awesom picture.


As far as the HTPC setup... I agree that that is going to be a nice, powerful solution. I think if you place the HTPC in your equipment rack (I can't remember if there's a door on your rack or not) that should help with some of the fan noise - and as long as your rack is adequately cooled - you shouldn't have any heat issues.


What "front end" are you going to use to pick movies and control stuff on the Xenarc screen? Do you have a home-brew solution in mind?


Another low-cost option for a front-end is NetRemote, which is Girder's front end. Girder works well with both ZoomPlaye and TheaterTek - but is not quite as pretty and a littler harder to setup than Cinemar/MainLobby/DVDLobby - but I think it's a little less expensive. I actually use Girder in my setup to fill some gaps that the Cinemar and HomeSeer software has.


Without hijacking the thread, what are some other alternatives Sandman can use as a front-end to his HTPC system?


Ya'll can visit my website and look in both my Automation Section and my Gallery to see some examples of my Home Theater and Automation front ends. You can even get limited access to my live automation server (view only) from within the automation pages using username: AVS-User and password: AVS-User in the password pop-up.


My webhost seems to be having some server issues today, so everything's running a bit slow.


----------



## SmX

I wanted to Add, that I tried out the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth (CCC) last night with the Optoma H-79 and the Picture was just plain Horrible.


All the Colors got Washed out, everything looked Grey, Muddy and Blurry. The wall looked 100 times better than that Cloth. So I don't know how the hell you guys are using It. I even tried flipping it over cause I thought I was using the wrong side that's how bad it was.


Maybe CCC doesn't work with Optoma-H79 Projectors?










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I'm blown away everytime I visit this thread... That's gonna be one awesom picture.
> 
> 
> As far as the HTPC setup... I agree that that is going to be a nice, powerful solution. I think if you place the HTPC in your equipment rack (I can't remember if there's a door on your rack or not) that should help with some of the fan noise - and as long as your rack is adequately cooled - you shouldn't have any heat issues.
> 
> 
> What "front end" are you going to use to pick movies and control stuff on the Xenarc screen? Do you have a home-brew solution in mind?
> 
> 
> Another low-cost option for a front-end is NetRemote, which is Girder's front end. Girder works well with both ZoomPlaye and TheaterTek - but is not quite as pretty and a littler harder to setup than Cinemar/MainLobby/DVDLobby - but I think it's a little less expensive. I actually use Girder in my setup to fill some gaps that the Cinemar and HomeSeer software has.
> 
> 
> Without hijacking the thread, what are some other alternatives Sandman can use as a front-end to his HTPC system?
> 
> 
> Ya'll can visit my website and look in both my Automation Section and my Gallery to see some examples of my Home Theater and Automation front ends. You can even get limited access to my live automation server (view only) from within the automation pages using username: AVS-User and password: AVS-User in the password pop-up.
> 
> 
> My webhost seems to be having some server issues today, so everything's running a bit slow.



Thanks.


I am still trying to decide on Motherboard, Processor and Case that is going to be the Quietest Solution in my Open Rack (No Door). Or I may just have to do a Tower and house it elsewhere.


As Far as Front End I think I like the MainLobby and DVD Lobby. I got the Trial and Started messing around with it and the Commands. Also Theater Tek for launching the video files.


----------



## jrfuda

Sandman, you can look at this case: http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod...tsync_6000.htm for your HTPC. The whole thing is a big hunk of aluminum and serves as the heatsink for your CPU and graphics card - require little or no fans thereby reducing noise.


However, It's incredibly expensive and I heard the wait for them is rather long since they're all custom made.


Just checked.. $645 base price and 4-6 weeks for themto ship the case.


I bet it'd easily be $1000+ by the time you throw in a few options (heatsink block for CPU, northbridge, and GPU, plus a few others items). Heck, that's probably more than you're going to spend on your hardware!


It's a very purdy case, though!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, you can look at this case: http://www.atechfabrication.com/prod...tsync_6000.htm for your HTPC. The whole thing is a big hunk of aluminum and serves as the heatsink for your CPU and graphics card - require little or no fans thereby reducing noise.
> 
> 
> However, It's incredibly expensive and I heard the wait for them is rather long since they're all custom made.
> 
> 
> Just checked.. $645 base price and 4-6 weeks for themto ship the case.
> 
> 
> I bet it'd easily be $1000+ by the time you throw in a few options (heatsink block for CPU, northbridge, and GPU, plus a few others items). Heck, that's probably more than you're going to spend on your hardware!
> 
> 
> It's a very purdy case, though!



Thanks, Atech cases were the First I looked at. After Seeing the Wait time I said No Thanks. I'm considering doing the Same Case as the S1 Digital which is a Ahanix MCE601 http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_inf...54a3f76f70412d 


or the OrigenAE X11
http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_inf...ame/htpc-cases


----------



## bpape

We had a bit of a communication problem. It's supposed to be on the absorbant material instead of on the bottom of the frame - easily fixable. The paper is a cheap way to somewhat replicate the performance of an FRK faced product.


If that whole soffit were left unfaced and open, the amount of HF absorbtion in the room in comparison to the rest would have been out of balance. The paper helps to reflect a good amount of the upper mids and highs while still allowing for good bass and lower midrange absorbtion.


The targeted absorbtion vs. the treating all around are just 2 different methodologies. I prefer the rear of the room a bit more lively as I know Terry does too. It also allows IMO for a better 2 channel listening environment if the room is also used for that. You can get excellent results either way - I just prefer this way. Based on discussions with Ruben when we first started this journey, it was decided that this solution would be preferable for his situation.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to Add, that I tried out the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth (CCC) last night with the Optoma H-79 and the Picture was just plain Horrible.
> 
> 
> All the Colors got Washed out, everything looked Grey, Muddy and Blurry. The wall looked 100 times better than that Cloth. So I don't know how the hell you guys are using It. I even tried flipping it over cause I thought I was using the wrong side that's how bad it was.
> 
> 
> Maybe CCC doesn't work with Optoma-H79 Projectors?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Oh my. I was planning on using this stuff so that is very disappointing to hear...


Did you get the "coated" or the regular Celtic Cloth? I got a sample of both and the uncoated one had a lot more weave or texture to it. The coated one would be better I would think.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

bpape:


I thought that might be the case but was unsure.

I noticed that he had to redo the paper but didn't want to rub salt in a wound.


Anyway Sandman may certainly have one of the best DIY theaters when he is done with all the advice from you and the others along the way.


He will also probably win an award for the number of "mid course corrections" taken along his journey. Not that I'm counting, but the wall height and staggered studs, Ceiling construction, square versus round columns, and I'm sure he could provide a more detailed list.


Sandman we salute you! DIY home theater God, a real american hero. Maybe he could get that bud light beer commercial music and have him mix us a version with the appropriate music.


Sandman if you could get that music and someone to imitate that announcer, then put some slides together including the shots of all the piles of materials you ripped out as you went along. Put it on a video and you would have a great trailer to show for your friends


----------



## bpape

ROTFL! That would be a great intro theme. "We salute you Mr. DIY Home Theater Builder Guy!"


I agree - there have been some corrections/changes along the way. When you move at the speed that Ruben does, it's somewhat inevitible. But, I think the results speak for themself. This is going to be a beautiful place when it's finished. I think all of the changes were for the better. I'm still just stunned at how the columns came out.


I wish I had the time to undertake a project of that magnitude for myself. When I built mine, it took me over a year and it's nowhere near as ornate or detailed.


----------



## larryep

my gosh Ruben that is beautiful work!!!!!!!


Larry


----------



## larryep




> Quote:
> Absolutely breathtaking.....I honestly believe that Sandman and Chinadog's threads should be stickys....They are the quintessential DIY theater step-by-step threads. I never miss a day checking your progress. Thanks to the both of you.



Ditto. can't say it any better.


----------



## SoapySmith

Sandman - did you try the CCC with black speaker grill material behind it? I think some people on the DIY forum were saying that works wonders, but I've not tried it myself.


----------



## SmX

Guys Thanks for all your Cool and funny Responses. Your Support is what has driven me to get this far. Your ideas on your theaters is what made mine become what it's becoming. Basically, You guys have become a second family to me throughout this whole process. and everyday (Multiple times) I check in to read this thread and others.


BUT LETS SET ONE THING STRAIGHT. I admitted my mess up on the paper facing on the previous Page in THIS POST with the picture of the new paper facing. You guys don't read to good do ya?







Your Like me, just look at all the pretty pictures and forget to read.










Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh my. I was planning on using this stuff so that is very disappointing to hear...
> 
> 
> Did you get the "coated" or the regular Celtic Cloth? I got a sample of both and the uncoated one had a lot more weave or texture to it. The coated one would be better I would think.



Yep, it was too good to be true.










It was the Coated Celtic Cloth I received, I even tried both sides. It was total Garbage.


I'm just wondering if it perhaps works better with LCD projectors opposed to DLP? Bottom Line, for Me is it's not happening in my Room.


Ruben


----------



## HeyNow^

I finally figured it out. Sandman is Santa Claus.... because there is no way, he can accomplish this project at this speed without a bunch of pointy eared elves....


----------



## Mark P

WOW simply amazing, cant believe I didnt see this thread earlier.


Time to rip everything out and start over, just when I was seeing a fiberoptic light at the end of the vast tunnel.


Having good help is priceless as well.


Nice stuff there, cant wait to see the finish


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> bpape:
> 
> 
> I thought that might be the case but was unsure.
> 
> I noticed that he had to redo the paper but didn't want to rub salt in a wound.
> 
> 
> Anyway Sandman may certainly have one of the best DIY theaters when he is done with all the advice from you and the others along the way.
> 
> 
> He will also probably win an award for the number of "mid course corrections" taken along his journey. Not that I'm counting, but the wall height and staggered studs, Ceiling construction, square versus round columns, and I'm sure he could provide a more detailed list.
> 
> 
> Sandman we salute you! DIY home theater God, a real american hero. Maybe he could get that bud light beer commercial music and have him mix us a version with the appropriate music.
> 
> 
> Sandman if you could get that music and someone to imitate that announcer, then put some slides together including the shots of all the piles of materials you ripped out as you went along. Put it on a video and you would have a great trailer to show for your friends



ROFLMAO!!!!

Man I was reading this, "Sandman we salute you! DIY home theater God, a real american hero." I was thinking this sounded like a Bud Light Commercial and then you said it was







!!!!


Thanks for all the Love Man. I Hope my thread Helps people like their threads helped me.


----------



## jmorris644

I ran into this thread for the first time today. Absolutely Fantastic!! I read each and every post. I was sitting so long that not only did my ass fall asleep but my hard drives even powered down on me










Great thread!! Great reading!! Great source of knowledge!! Great Guy for all his sharing!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *larryep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my gosh Ruben that is beautiful work!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Larry



Thanks Larry,


Your Theater is coming along quite lovely as well.. Love that entrance!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SoapySmith* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - did you try the CCC with black speaker grill material behind it? I think some people on the DIY forum were saying that works wonders, but I've not tried it myself.



I think people put the black Cloth behind it so it's not so transparent on the framed screen wall and you see all the framing. There is No way in the World that black GoM behind it is gonna make it clearer or bring out the colors, but I will give it try anywell, what the hell its still taped to my wall.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeyNow^* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally figured it out. Sandman is Santa Claus.... because there is no way, he can accomplish this project at this speed without a bunch of pointy eared elves....



Ho, Ho, Ho


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW simply amazing, cant believe I didnt see this thread earlier.
> 
> 
> Time to rip everything out and start over, just when I was seeing a fiberoptic light at the end of the vast tunnel.
> 
> 
> Having good help is priceless as well.
> 
> 
> Nice stuff there, cant wait to see the finish



Thanks, Good Reliable help is the key to Success in a timely fashion. If it wasn't for this guy coming through, I would of took the next 3 years finishing this.


I got so Damn busy right before December. This kid has real good skills and is a perfectionist like myself, so he knows how we need this to be finished.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ran into this thread for the first time today. Absolutely Fantastic!! I read each and every post. I was sitting so long that not only did my ass fall asleep but my hard drives even powered down on me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread!! Great reading!! Great source of knowledge!! Great Guy for all his sharing!!!



Thanks! I spend Many nights falling asleep at the computer reading threads and educating myself as well. We take for granted the power of the Internet, it has the most incredible info in the world.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Today I ordered all my HTPC Stuff to build my Home Theater PC, it will arrive Saturday.

I still need to Pick up an Audio Card and an OTA HD Card, I will get that locally.


This is a List of what I ordered...


Mother Board

1 Abit KN8 SLI Socket 939/NF4 SLI/1394/ATX Motherboard


Processor (CPU)

1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4400+* (2.2GHz)


Processor Cooling

1 Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu Copper CPU Fan Intel 478, AMD 754/939/940


Memory (2 Gigs)

2 DDR400 1GB Kingston Original Memory


Internal Hard Drives

1 Seagate ST380817AS 80GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive

1 Seagate ST3400832AS 400GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive


HTPC Case

1 Origen AE X15e HTPC Case with 7" TFT Touchscreen and IR Module, Black


Card Reader

1 Card Reader: Black Internal 17-in-1 USB 2.0


Power Supply (PSU)

1 Seasonic S12-500, 500W Silent PS


VIdeo Card

1 nVidia GeForce 7800GTX 256MB 2DVI/HDTV PCI-Express Video Card


TV Tuner Card

1 Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE TV Tuner


This is the HTPC Case I got, except it will be rack mountable.


----------



## theirishgonzo

nice choice for pc. o have the super alumni boy antec with a 3800 amd. i did get the 7800 series vid card but i went with dual gt instead of a single gtx msi and a antec sli bord. i have a 120 gig hd in my case and a file server in the office.


i will never buy top of the line any more for computers. i will buy best bang for buck at the level i need.



i think with my curent sub setup i would need alot more bass traps sence i can move the wall that i bult my sub into and it is barced and laged to the floor. 4 18 in a ib with 3400 wats.



on your surounds are your sider direct or they a bi/di polar?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theirishgonzo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> nice choice for pc. o have the super alumni boy antec with a 3800 amd. i did get the 7800 series vid card but i went with dual gt instead of a single gtx msi and a antec sli bord. i have a 120 gig hd in my case and a file server in the office.
> 
> 
> i will never buy top of the line any more for computers. i will buy best bang for buck at the level i need.
> 
> 
> 
> i think with my curent sub setup i would need alot more bass traps sence i can move the wall that i bult my sub into and it is barced and laged to the floor. 4 18 in a ib with 3400 wats.
> 
> 
> 
> on your surounds are your sider direct or they a bi/di polar?



Thanks,


I figured this Set up should be pretty much up to date for the next 2 months until the next best thing comes.










I'm pretty much a do it right the first time and it will last a long time type of guy. As long as this system plays back Video with no Flaws and is Stable, it may last me the Life of my theater. Obviously better video/audio/tuner Cards will come out, but this set up should be pretty upgradable for a while. After all, the power is there.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey, Do I win an award or Something for having the DIY HT thread with the Most Views?


51,000 Views and encounting. Wow!


A free DVD or Something?










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Update For Friday:


Well Besides getting all my HTPC stuff ordered. We managed to get the last 2 columns in place. We Started the wall panels today, we will make a couple dummy panels just so I can see what configuration of Colors/Panels I like.


We also got the Bass Traps on the Stage Completed and the GoM above the Stage (Where you won't see it when the Screen wall goes up). We just put fabric up there so I will always know that behind the Screen is finished like the Rest of the theater.


THe Best Part...


Here are the Bass Traps on the Stage. These will be behind the Screen wall and will never be Seen by a human except for me if I ever change the Speakers or Something back there. They started off as 24" x 96" 5.5" Cotton Batts. They all got cut down to Triangles and got compressed in the left and right corners of the Stage.


Now you see them...











Now You Don't











Here is a shot of my HVAC Supply for the Room. It will get a 4" x 36" Linear Grill.











The Paneling Begins!!!











I will Spend this Weekend assembling and configuring my HTPC.


Ruben


----------



## exipnos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I will Spend this Weekend assembling and configuring my HTPC.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Forget about electronics. Get back to building so that you can finish this thing and we can se the final results


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, Do I win an award or Something for having the DIY HT thread with the Most Views?
> 
> 
> 51,000 Views and encounting. Wow!
> 
> 
> A free DVD or Something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I was going to refer you to Clarence's thread (hidden on the CRT forum), but his is at 49k.


I think the prize is you get to host a meet when its done.


----------



## KWhite

Is that HVAC duct right above the screen?


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I was thinking about the screen material issues. It seemed improbable to me that the perforated screens would look so bad. I am in the design of my HT and am beginning to work with one of Erskins'(sp) guys to help. We have been talking about perfed screens as I wish to put at least the center channel speaker behind the screen. (also a DE recommendation)


Anyways, I ramble... My thought was that with the screen samples directly taped to a serface that also reflects 2 things are happening 1) you are getting a 2nd reflection through the perfs which is not how it will be in a complete installation and 2) I would guess that these reflections also have a half-moon shadow in them. Something also that might cause some of what you are seeing. I think it would be a good excercise for you to put all of the samples on a large black background. If you use a black cloth you could even cut out a 6"x6" hole so that you could compare the bare wall to the samples.


If you decide to do this I would, as I am sure many others would be too, be interested in your findings.


Also, I was very disappointed in the appearance of the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I too had high hopes when I first read about in this thread. If people are actually using it and liking it then here too something must be amiss. Might it too look better with no reflections coming from behind it? (your thoughts in an earlier post)


Joe


----------



## bpape

You're getting close. Don't get sidetracked with the computer.


Bryan


----------



## Angelo M

Sandmanx,


This is got to be the most detailed thread of any on the AVS forum.


Your quality of work is unbelievable, not to mention the pace you are going at, and still finding time to post about it in great detail here. WOW! It is truly inspiring to me.


It might be to much to ask but could you share your estimated time so far working on this project and an up to date total cost?


I think you could make a fine career doing this kind of work with the area that you live in. (if you aren't already)


Keep it coming!


----------



## Frank D

Your theatre is coming together fantastically!


The corners where your GOM meets looks great. How did you manage to get a straight GOM edge in the corners (putting on the first edge appeared easy so I am actually referring to the second edge which seams impossible)? From your pictures you first put the GOM up (for under the soffits) on a free standing furring strip and then proceeded to attach that strip so you used up your one clean edge per GOM section - I thought one is the maximum number of clean edges (ie. clean edge = where you do not see any staple lines) one could get. You did two clean edges and did a great job . How did you do it?


Post #568 referred to is found on this page:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6906566 


Thanks

Frank


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that HVAC duct right above the screen?



No, its on the side in the Center of the Room.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I was thinking about the screen material issues. It seemed improbable to me that the perforated screens would look so bad. I am in the design of my HT and am beginning to work with one of Erskins'(sp) guys to help. We have been talking about perfed screens as I wish to put at least the center channel speaker behind the screen. (also a DE recommendation)
> 
> 
> Anyways, I ramble... My thought was that with the screen samples directly taped to a serface that also reflects 2 things are happening 1) you are getting a 2nd reflection through the perfs which is not how it will be in a complete installation and 2) I would guess that these reflections also have a half-moon shadow in them. Something also that might cause some of what you are seeing. I think it would be a good excercise for you to put all of the samples on a large black background. If you use a black cloth you could even cut out a 6"x6" hole so that you could compare the bare wall to the samples.
> 
> 
> If you decide to do this I would, as I am sure many others would be too, be interested in your findings.
> 
> 
> Also, I was very disappointed in the appearance of the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I too had high hopes when I first read about in this thread. If people are actually using it and liking it then here too something must be amiss. Might it too look better with no reflections coming from behind it? (your thoughts in an earlier post)
> 
> 
> Joe



Makes Perfect Sense. I will give this a try tonight.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're getting close. Don't get sidetracked with the computer.
> 
> 
> Bryan



I won't. My workers are off till Monday, so I figured I'd focus on doing this.


The best part about finishing this theater is seeing all the materials dissapear out of our Great Room.







There was Piles of Cotton, Boxes, Wood, Drywall, Etc. It's now emptying out.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Angelo M* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandmanx,
> 
> 
> This is got to be the most detailed thread of any on the AVS forum.
> 
> 
> Your quality of work is unbelievable, not to mention the pace you are going at, and still finding time to post about it in great detail here. WOW! It is truly inspiring to me.
> 
> 
> It might be to much to ask but could you share your estimated time so far working on this project and an up to date total cost?
> 
> 
> I think you could make a fine career doing this kind of work with the area that you live in. (if you aren't already)
> 
> 
> Keep it coming!



Thanks! If You read through this thread, you will find all my cost's posted so far. Also, the great thing about the thread is that it has a Date and Time on every post on the Left under the users name.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your theatre is coming together fantastically!
> 
> 
> The corners where your GOM meets looks great. How did you manage to get a straight GOM edge in the corners (putting on the first edge appeared easy so I am actually referring to the second edge which seams impossible)? From your pictures you first put the GOM up (for under the soffits) on a free standing furring strip and then proceeded to attach that strip so you used up your one clean edge per GOM section - I thought one is the maximum number of clean edges (ie. clean edge = where you do not see any staple lines) one could get. You did two clean edges and did a great job . How did you do it?
> 
> 
> Post #568 referred to is found on this page:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6906566
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Frank



Elementary my dear watson, Elementary







Well, after the first side got furred out, we made the 2nd frame a real tight fit. We used the same technique as the first frame that went up, but we tucked the corners in with a tape knife.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

I bet that this theatre will be the new "Great Room" in the house, due to all the guests entering it and saying, "Wow, what a great room!".










Seriously though... fantastic progress, amazing detail and great write up.


Are you by any chance in the construction business? You seem to have more than a passing knowledge of construction here...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I bet that this theatre will be the new "Great Room" in the house, due to all the guests entering it and saying, "Wow, what a great room!".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though... fantastic progress, amazing detail and great write up.
> 
> 
> Are you by any chance in the construction business? You seem to have more than a passing knowledge of construction here...




Thanks!


I do a bit of building here and there, but its not my bread and butter.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

I'd encourage you to put your theatre progress up in the $20 000+ forum as they have all very nice theatres there and could offer you suggestions for screens, base management etc., a great group there that would really appreciate the beautiful place you are building there.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd encourage you to put your theatre progress up in the $20 000+ forum as they have all very nice theatres there and could offer you suggestions for screens, base management etc., a great group there that would really appreciate the beautiful place you are building there.




Sounds Good


----------



## bpape

Just be careful - before you know it you'll be buying a Kaleidescope, a pair of Wilson X-1's, LAMM amps, a CBIII, etc.


----------



## FusionRx

I think his 6Tb solution could even give the Kaliedescape a run for its money.


----------



## jpa3d

Ruben, I was just in an av specialty store and listened to a new subwoofer electronic bass management system by velodyne which allows the subwoofer to be placed anywhere in the room. You can make adjustments to create a fairly flat sine wave response no matter what the room configuration or furnishings. I didn't understand it that much but it sounded like an improvement. I also don't remember the name of it, but is was about $600.00 retail. You might want to check this out as a possible solution for bass response. Does anyone else know about this to explain it better?


Just some added information,


Jim


----------



## Frank D

Jim, the EQ system from Velodyne is the SMS-1. There are several posts in the subwoofer section of this forum. If does appear to have great reviews from many purchasers.


Here is one post related to the SMS-1:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=495331


----------



## theirishgonzo

i love my sub i think it is better than any store bought one. what sub are you going to use? what output are you looking to get?


----------



## SmX

By The Way Folks,


I added the Black GoM Behind the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth and it did nothing for the quality or colors of the material. I also added the black cloth behind the Da-Lite Perforated Material and the perf did appear less noticable. Meaning the Da-Lite perfs may be less noticable once up on the frame,


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well, As for my HTPC, this Weekend I got everything in except for the Case (Figures). UPS left that out in Cali but brought me everything else for Saturday Delivery.


For allot of you guys here, this is gonna be a bunch of Mumbo jumo, so you may want to skip this post










So I assembled what I could until the Case arrives (Hopefully Moday)


Here are Some Pictures...


Here is the Abit KN8 SLI Quiet and Cool Motherboard











This is the AMD CPU I Got.











Here is the MotherBoard with the Zalman cooler, AMD CPU and 2 Gigs of Ram installed

For those that don't know, That big Fan is on top of the Processor to keep it cool. This fan runs extremely quiet and disperses the heat much better and quieter than the Cooler that comes with the AMD processor.


You may also notice, the Motherboard uses a heatsink transfer technology which is the Quiet and Cool set up. This eliminates a noisy fan on the Mother Board as well and distributes the heat in a noiseless fashion.











Here is the nVidia GeForce 7800GTX PCI-Express Video Card











As Soon as the Case Arrives, I will take Some more Pictures as I assemble it.


Ruben


----------



## Del Piero

i just joined right now so i can reply to this thread.


was going through this thread thinking it was really old, and to my HORROR, the theatre is not done!!!!!!!!! was really hoping to see a finished project.


anyways, why is your HTPC so damn powerful? will you be using it for gaming? or strictly HTPC? (sorry if you've already answered this.. its a 21 page thread and i mainly looked at the pictures







)


sli mobo: why?

dual core processor: why?

2gb ram: why?

7800 gtx: WHY?

total 480 gb HD: ...by your standards, thats low, lol.


You're probably some sort of millionaire (or heavily in debt..







), so buying the very best isn't really an issue.. althought i can't possibly think of a reason to get a 7800gtx for an HTPC. Definitely buy more HD space since you'll prolly gonna want to save a lot of stuff.


Hurry up and finish up your theatre.


peace.


----------



## Del Piero

oh ya forgot to mention, nice kitchen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Del Piero* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i just joined right now so i can reply to this thread.
> 
> 
> was going through this thread thinking it was really old, and to my HORROR, the theatre is not done!!!!!!!!! was really hoping to see a finished project.
> 
> 
> anyways, why is your HTPC so damn powerful? will you be using it for gaming? or strictly HTPC? (sorry if you've already answered this.. its a 21 page thread and i mainly looked at the pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 
> sli mobo: why?
> 
> dual core processor: why?
> 
> 2gb ram: why?
> 
> 7800 gtx: WHY?
> 
> total 480 gb HD: ...by your standards, thats low, lol.
> 
> 
> You're probably some sort of millionaire (or heavily in debt..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), so buying the very best isn't really an issue.. althought i can't possibly think of a reason to get a 7800gtx for an HTPC. Definitely buy more HD space since you'll prolly gonna want to save a lot of stuff.
> 
> 
> Hurry up and finish up your theatre.
> 
> 
> peace.



Thanks,


I wanted to build a HTPC that can have the extra power if I need it in the Future.

The way Technology grows every few months, I figured this would hold me over for a while. Plus I will occaisionally game with it and it will make one of my best friends mad because it's faster than his machine










As far as Hard Drive Space, I have a Storcase InfoStation with 16 400 Gig Hard Drives. Will I ever Get around to archiving my 1,000 DVD's this Life? Most Likely Not.


Thats why I'm going to Buy a couple Sony DVP-CX777ES 400 Disc DVD/SACD/CD Changers to run with this system. I figure I will put all my older titles in these and as I buy new titles, I will Archive them.


As far as the theater not being done, it's all about quality and not quantity.


Ruben


----------



## Tedd

For those comtemplating the Velodyne SMS-1, you might want to also look into the QSC DSP-4. It will require a computer to set up, but is alot more flexible then the SMS-1 and the Behringer.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the theater not being done, it's all about quality and not quantity.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Shoot, I'd say most of the theaters around the forum here have a build time between 6 months and 2 years. Even then, throw in the detail you're putting into the theater, and I thought you were going pretty fast.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben:



I have been starting to do research on HT PCs and hope to be able to learn from your experiences. Keep the details coming. When you finish a final version of the shopping list and sources would help a lot of us.


Also any hints on what it took to get everything working correctly would be fantastic.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been starting to do research on HT PCs and hope to be able to learn from your experiences. Keep the details coming. When you finish a final version of the shopping list and sources would help a lot of us.
> 
> 
> Also any hints on what it took to get everything working correctly would be fantastic.



I have begun to research the htPC area myself. Needless to say I am a comptuer geek. We have 4 computers in our house and a central server managing everything. And it is only my wife and me










Anyway, IMHO the software is really going to be the key. Ruben bought some really nice hardware but it is going to take a while to research and assemble all of the software that will make it work seemlessly. Knowing Ruben he has probably already decided on the software. He surprised me when he so rapidly came up with the hardware specs for the htPC. He is an amazing individual with an ubelievable breadth of knowledge.


I have recently downloaded the Cinemar products. They look very promising because they utilize a client/server paradigm. This means you can have multiple clients controlling multiple servers. You can have a server for home lighting and security control, another for DVD management, and yet another for MP3 management. I am not promoting this software yet as I need to spend more time with it, but it does look promising.


If Ruben is interested I can share what I find out about the software. I definately don't want to invade on his thread.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> II have recently downloaded the Cinemar products. They look very promising because they utilize a client/server paradigm. This means you can have multiple clients controlling multiple servers. You can have a server for home lighting and security control, another for DVD management, and yet another for MP3 management. I am not promoting this software yet as I need to spend more time with it, but it does look promising.
> 
> 
> If Ruben is interested I can share what I find out about the software. I definately don't want to invade on his thread.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yes, for software I'm using the Cinemar Main Lobby/DVD Lobby/Music Lobby Package. To me, they by far have the best looking front end software and I like the organization of everything. Plus it can control up to 12 Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxs.

I'm also using TheaterTek for the archived Video Playback. I already started adding titles to the Database. I'm also gonna experiment with the Charmed Quark and See how that goes.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, for software I'm using the Cinemar Main Lobby/DVD Lobby/Music Lobby Package. To me, they by far have the best looking front end software and I like the organization of everything. Plus it can control up to 12 Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxs.
> 
> Ruben



I assume Cinemar is the program created by Mario here on the forum? If so, I am sure it would be a good program based off of what he had done early on with just his home theater web site! Also, it would be good to have that kind of "local"(if you want to call the forum local) contact for things such as upgrading from the sony 400 disc jukeboxes to the new 400 disc Blu-ray players whenever they come out....


----------



## jrfuda

Y'all are correct Cinemar=MainLobby=Mario's creation...


And Sandman, once you start playing with FFDShow and applygin some processing to get the most out of your projector, you'll see that you may not have so much power to spare










I'm personnally a ZoomPlayer guy (vs. TheaterTek) but I've heard great things about TT as well.


----------



## radm1f

Amazing work sandman.










Some questions for you.


To decrease the HTPC sound is it possible to use liquid cooling? I know that there are adapters for most AMD CPUs and the Nvidia and ATI SLI and non SLI boards. Also, I changed my 8" fans to a 12" fans and lowered the RPM to decrease the noise. It seemed to work.


I am also a bit of a Mac fan and have networked my PC/Tivo/dual G5mac together. Have you thought about using something like FrontRow to preview your pics, music, and be able to play back 720p and 1080i content from a cable box stored via the mac (through the firewire port)?


I love the grain of the veneers with the filler. I used fillers for a red Oak jewelery box I made. The filler did an amazing job of bringing out the grain. Great Job!


Mehran


----------



## alexsmith2k

Well it would be possible...but would you risk having a liquid cooled system in your Equipment rack with all your amps, decoders and video equip....


Let alone having water anywhere near your stuff?


----------



## theirishgonzo

i like zoom player i used it to play the ogm and the mp4 files. in order to play anime they like to use all the new stuff to keep files small and good. i needed to install about 12 codeds to get everthing running. ac3 ffshow. the olny thing i dont like is wireless some times drops out when serving files.



also what sub do you use and what output do you expect to get @20hz



i have 4 avalanch 18 with the xbl motor in a ib with 3400 wats and i can hit [email protected]


----------



## mcascio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, for software I'm using the Cinemar Main Lobby/DVD Lobby/Music Lobby Package. To me, they by far have the best looking front end software and I like the organization of everything. Plus it can control up to 12 Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Great thread and a fantastic looking theater. Reminds me of when I did my first theater with all the 3D renderings. (they look fantastic - as a Lightwave3D user for over a decade, I can appreciate the time and energy that goes into them - they proved invaluable to not making costly mistakes down the road). I never thought I'd find another person as detailed as me.







Attention to detail pays off and really shows in your theater.


Let me know if you need any assistance with DVDLobby or any other modules in our Suite. I'm not only a hair care club member, but I'm also the president.










You can also use the Cinemar software to control all other components in your theater. You could taylor your interface to blend seamlessly into the color scheme you've chosen for the entire theater.


Check out the TechTalker theater intros on our website if you haven't already. They make a great audio bit while your visitors are taking their seats and after you've made a movie selection from DVDLobby and your changer is cueing up.


Also a shout out to all my "peeps" on the forum. I see some old names in this thread I remember well. I don't get a chance to frequent the forums as much as I used to but coming back to this particular one really makes me miss 'em.










Keep up the great work. Looking forward to seeing this one in the magazines.


----------



## SmX

Well Folks, Got allot done today. We finished Ripping and Routing all the wood for the Panels. While the guys were ripping and routing, I was building the HTPC. Got it all finished and got Windows XP 64 bit installed. Don't know If I'm gonna keep Windows XP 64 bit on it because I'm not sure how many apps are going to work with it.


However, I am happy to say the HTPC is running extremely Quiet and Extremely Cool. I even got the Fans running at 12 Volts right now and I'm gonna cut them all down to 5 Volts Which should Pretty much make the HTPC completely dead quiet. That Zalman Cooler id Incredibly Quiet and So isn't the Seasonic 500 Watt PSU.


Thanks mcascio for Chiming in.


I had Windows XP Media Center on my other PC (Sony Vaio) and it seemed like every 3rd or 4th launch of the Main Lobby would not open up. I would have to re-install Main Lobby again to get it to run for another 3 or 4 launches. However, the Main Lobby Server always opened with no Problem. Is there conflicts between the two? Or was it something to do with running a Trial version?


Will Main Lobby/DVD/Music run on Windows XP 64 bit with No issues?


Let Me Know, I'm ready to Purchase.


Now to the Best part we all love, the Pictures










Here is a shot of the Empty Case. This is from the Back. On the Rear right you will see the back of the 7" Touch Screen and to the Left of it is where the DVD Drive and Card Reader goes.











Fast Forward to Everything installed... One thing about PCs, they sure have enough Damn wires to Drive you Nuts. The Hardest part about building these is routing the wires to look neat and not restrict any needed airflow inside the case. I just plugged everything in first to make sure everything is working, Next, I have to make it neat after I confirm everything is fine.


Yikes!







What a Mess!!!!











About a Half Hour of routing the wires around makes things look much nicer. I will pick up some wire tubes tomorrow at Tiger Direct to make the inside even cleaner.











It's Alive!!!


----------



## miltimj

Oh my. I finally got around to checking your thread, Ruben, as I've heard so much about it, and I have to say that I consistently caught myself saying, "That's what I want to do!"










The only differences I'm thinking of are a few more feet behind the 2nd row of seating, two different height risers, and no round columns (besides, I know I'd never be able to do them justice like you have). Thanks especially for the details on the star ceiling -- that's seeming much more plausible to me now, though I still wonder about the seems between panels, and if perhaps a 4'x8' panel would work better?


That HTPC is unbelievable. Awesome choice of components and very well thought out. I love the LCD display (I was considering a separate LCD, but that's a much more elegant solution for probably the same or less cost).


I'm looking forward to continuing to follow your progress, and going back to read the other 70% that I didn't get around to..


Keep up the phenomenal work! You're a benchmark for my future theater, that's for sure!


----------



## jrfuda

Ruben. that PC's a beauty! I'm glad she's running quiet for you too!


I've never run MainLobby on MCE, but it runs flawlessly on four different XP machines I run it on, as does MLServer. It's a very non-obtrusive program, it barely touches the registry (I actually run it off of a flash drive during slow days at the office when I want to edit a scene or something, and it runs on my completely locked-down work computer). MLServer is a very registry intense program, and many issues you'll ever have with MLServer can be solved by simply registering the proper plugin - and there's a plugin author over at the cinemar forum that's written a script that will register all your plugins automatically! By registering I mean registering the program within the Windows registery using Regsvr32, not registering the program with Cinemar










Make sure you have the latest version of Macromedia Flash and DirectX installed on whatever machines you run MainLobby on and that should fix your problems.


----------



## bpape

Purdy! It's always nice to see a new beast come to life. Nice job with cleaning things up.


----------



## Test_Engineer

Ruben,

How is that HT case to work in? I was considering the same one. Looks like you got it together ok, BUT how much swearing went on during the routing of cables. Sometimes, things just are not spaced right or they interfere with other stuff, especially powerful graphics cards.


Keep up the good work,

Cory


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I would be surprised if you end up keeping windows64. I don't think you will have any problems with software but I believe you will find that you will want to install drivers for peripherals that are simply not available for the 64bit machines yet.


I have been running a triple-boot machine with XP-pro, XP-64, and MCE. I would love to stay with the 64bit as my main boot but I keep running into driver unavailability issues. Currently there are no drivers for my: webcam, scanner, digitizer, dell printer.


Now having said that, you might be ok with the htPC as you won't probably ahve such a need for peripherals.


Just some thoughts...


Joe


----------



## mcascio

Ruben,


How are you launching MainLobby?

From a shortcut? Start menu? Desktop icon?


The software has not been tested or developed for XP 64bit - so you may get unexpected results. I'd expect them to come from MLServer before MainLobby though because of all the drivers.


For kicks, try uninstalling first, then reinstall. What are you seeing happen with MainLobby? Is there a quick flash of some sort or nothing happens? Anything in your task manager? If you prefer, we can take the discussion to the Cinemar forum or via email so we don't sidetrack your thread here.


Joe - have you had any issues running MainLobby on your 64 bit system?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How are you launching MainLobby?
> 
> From a shortcut? Start menu? Desktop icon?
> 
> 
> The software has not been tested or developed for XP 64bit - so you may get unexpected results. I'd expect them to come from MLServer before MainLobby though because of all the drivers.
> 
> 
> For kicks, try uninstalling first, then reinstall. What are you seeing happen with MainLobby? Is there a quick flash of some sort or nothing happens? Anything in your task manager? If you prefer, we can take the discussion to the Cinemar forum or via email so we don't sidetrack your thread here.
> 
> 
> Joe - have you had any issues running MainLobby on your 64 bit system?



Can you PM or Post a Direct # to you so we can talk by phone?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here is a couple Shots with an accent light on the Columns and with some panels up. Again, the Red in the pictures is way off, it's not Fire Engine Red like that....





















Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well Last Night I let the PC Idle all night with no Air Conditioning on in our house to see if anything Wierd would happened and the Tempature remained stable. It is running at 29 Celcius / 89 Degrees which is below what normal is. The Normal idle Tempature for an AMD chip is 45 - 50 Celcius. So I think we got ourself a winner.


BigMouthInDC wanted a Breakdown of where I bought everything and What it cost so here it is...


This is a List of what I ordered...

*I got the Following stuff from www.eWiz.com *


Video Card

EVGA nVidia GeForce 7800GTX 256MB 2DVI/HDTV PCI-Express Video Card

Part # EV-7800GTX

Price: $467.50


CPU

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4400+* (2.2GHz) Retail

Part # A64-44CDBX

Price: $498.52


Hard Drive

Seagate ST3400832AS 400GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive

Part # HD-ST400BS

Price: $219.39


Hard Drive

Seagate ST380817AS 80GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive

Part # HD-ST80SB7

Price: $59.48


Memory/Ram

2 DDR400 1GB Kingston Original Memory

Part # DDR4001GKI

Price: $87.03 Price Each


Mother Board

Abit KN8 SLI Socket 939/NF4 SLI/1394/ATX Motherboard

Part # MB-KN8-SLI

Price: $117.95

*Total For eWiz $1,536.90*


The Following Stuff was ordered from www.pcalchemy.com 


Case

OrigenAE X15e HTPC Case w/TFT Touchscreen and IR Module, Black

PSU: Seasonic S12-500, 500W Silent PS

Card Reader: Black Internal 17-in-1 USB 2.0

Part # X15E-B

Price: $726.90


TV Tuner Card

Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE

Part # 1081

Price: $139.95


CPU Cooler

Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu Copper CPU Fan Intel 478, AMD 754/939/940

Part # CNPS7000B-Cu

Price: $36.95

*Total for www.PcAlchemy.com: $903.80*

*Total Cost for Building this PC: $2,440.70 plus shipping of Parts*


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, the speaker grilles look like they came out nice, did you back them with anything like we were talking about (mesh or perforated metal)?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, the speaker grilles look like they came out nice, did you back them with anything like we were talking about (mesh or perforated metal)?



Nah, that was just for show. The Speaker grills are Still not done yet. It's just GoM wrapped around the Speaker grill frame. One thing I can tell you for sure, is the Accent Lighting on the Columns is gonna be Awesome.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Folks. Need your Help here.


As you may know we already Started Building the Panels and Temporarly put them up on the wall. After Seeing how the Red Panels on top were lining up with the grills, I decided to bring them down to make everything a little more lined up. I will be having a Black carpet with a pattern. The Sconces below are not what I'm using, they are only for placement.


Please give me your opinion from the 4 Choices Below or a variation of 2 choices below, these drawings are all 100% to scale...

*This is what we were doing before I changed My Mind...*










*These are some other Variations I came up with, using the Red Panels that are already Made. Notice the Red Panels are now lined up with the column grills...*





























Please help a Brother out


----------



## Test_Engineer

I like the red centered with the speaker grills better. Not so sure about the "chair rail" though. I makes it look a bit busy. IF you really want to use that wood trim, I would use it for a crown molding, or a baseboard. I think when the wood is running across the panel sections, it takes away from the columns.


Like this:


----------



## chinadog

I vote number two (assuming those are two wood accents), but it looks like addtional veneering and more work. You're used to that though!


Bud


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Joe - have you had any issues running MainLobby on your 64 bit system?



Hi Mario,


I will be doing more testing. I have not tried MLsever on the 64bit yet. My main server in the house is running windows2003 advanced server. When I tried to run MLserver on it it would not run. The MLserver window would pop open but it would lock up after that. So with that initial experience I did not even try any of the software on the 64bit.


I would be more than happy to if you wish. We can take a conversation offline.


Because of the problem and my wish to not change from server2003 I started to test CQC. sorry. So far CQC is working great on 2003server.


Again, not wanting to steal Ruben's thread I responded here only so that he and others could see the 2003server issue.


But I agree with your thoughts, I would assume that MLServer would have a very difficult time on 64bit windows. Not necessarily because of the code but more so because of unavailabilty of 3rd party drivers.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Please help a Brother out



Sorry Ruben,


JMVHO but I don't like any of them. The horizontal lines in the black is what is bugging me.


My vote would be for variation #1 (centered with 2 wood rails) but with the lower black sections having vertical seams like the red panels. On the top I would again either 1) put the vertical black seams in or 2) have it all wood or 3) take the red up to the full height. It seems to me by the drawing that the sconces are too low in the centered version. If you take the red to the top you would be able to raise the sconces. It could be that just the drawings make them seem low. I don't think it looks good to have the sconce dead even with the middle of the speaker grills.


Here's a wild-ass idea that just came to me. It may not work because I think your complete theater is built using 90degree angles but I think it would look really nice and break up the red panels a little. If you want the top section to be black it would also tie that in a little better. Take the middle red panel, modify it to put in a black triangle from the top of it so that the bottom of the triangle ends up behind the sconce. Oh well, just a thought.










Joe


----------



## bpape

IMO, if you're considering changing the horizontal black on the bottom (personally I like it this way), I'd just make it all one panel with no seams.


I also kind of like the one Test Engineer came up with. I know we discussed several options last night and it's really hard to say without seeing it personally. Any of the centered designs will work nicely. Which variation is a lot of personal taste.


----------



## mcascio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Mario,
> 
> 
> I will be doing more testing. I have not tried MLsever on the 64bit yet. My main server in the house is running windows2003 advanced server. When I tried to run MLserver on it it would not run. The MLserver window would pop open but it would lock up after that. So with that initial experience I did not even try any of the software on the 64bit.
> 
> 
> Joe



Joe,


An updated file is required to work on Windows2003 Server. This will come standard in the next version. Until then, the file can be found in this thread:
http://www.htpcservers.com/phpbb/vie...=2003&start=15 


I had a chance to talk with Ruben via phone yesterday (the guys a wealth of knowledge) and we'll work on "Cinemarizing" his theater.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe,
> 
> 
> An updated file is required to work on Windows2003 Server. This will come standard in the next version. Until then, the file can be found in this thread:
> http://www.htpcservers.com/phpbb/vie...=2003&start=15



Thanks mario. That plus a few "Dart" registrations and it seems to be working now. Now on to some more testing











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had a chance to talk with Ruben via phone yesterday (the guys a wealth of knowledge) and we'll work on "Cinemarizing" his theater.



I agree. I think it is amazing the depth of Ruben's knowledge in so many areas.


Joe


----------



## rm1759

It takes some time to get through this entire thread! If I ever get around to rebuilding my theater, I hope you don't mind if I steal some of your design!


have you considered putting those panels horizontal between the columns?


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rm1759* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It takes some time to get through this entire thread! If I ever get around to rebuilding my theater, I hope you don't mind if I steal some of your design!
> 
> 
> have you considered putting those panels horizontal between the columns?



Not a bad thought, they might stand out better against the column. (interuption of vertical lines) There would need to be some reworking of sizes for everything though. More effort. (ugh! ^_^ )


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all the Responses guys. I think I'm going with Option #2 with a 5" Oak Base Board to match the Columns.


Also, we got our Screen Research ClearPix 2 Screen Sample today along with a Black backing. It looks like a vinyl Weave and is very transparent for sound. I will throw it up on the Wall tonight and check it out.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think his 6Tb solution could even give the Kaliedescape a run for its money.



Yeah I was Reading over the Specs on those Kaliedescapes, and the 3 terrabyte Solution was like $30k plus another $10k for this and $12k for that. That's just plain Ripping people off. The only nice thing about it is the cool case and software. I think I will get the results I want with Cinemar and some programming.


Besides, with over 1,000 people a day reading this thread, I think Mario want's to help me out so this Cinemar solution will work for me.










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tedd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those comtemplating the Velodyne SMS-1, you might want to also look into the QSC DSP-4. It will require a computer to set up, but is alot more flexible then the SMS-1 and the Behringer.



I'm thinking about doing a couple of Danley's. Right now I have the Velodyne HGS-18.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shoot, I'd say most of the theaters around the forum here have a build time between 6 months and 2 years. Even then, throw in the detail you're putting into the theater, and I thought you were going pretty fast.



True! Yes I would of been done months ago if I didn't change my design 17 Times throughout the process.


I'm a very Autistic ...I mean Artistic person







and I see so many alternative visions as something Starts to take place.


But I am So far 100% happy with all the changes I made, meaning I will enjoy the Room to the fullest while I'm Sleeping in those Big Comfortable Chairs gazing at the Stars.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm personnally a ZoomPlayer guy (vs. TheaterTek) but I've heard great things about TT as well.



I have to Start Looking into Zoomplayer and FFDshow as well.


----------



## KWhite

Definitely setting a new level on DIY, great job, even your HTPC is bitchin.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the Responses guys. I think I'm going with Option #2 with a 5" Oak Base Board to match the Columns.
> 
> 
> Also, we got our Screen Research ClearPix 2 Screen Sample today along with a Black backing. It looks like a vinyl Weave and is very transparent for sound. I will throw it up on the Wall tonight and check it out.
> 
> 
> Ruben



On no!!! Not the screen of doom wall!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On no!!! Not the screen of doom wall!!!



Was this a Bad or Good Oh No?


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was this a Bad or Good Oh No?



Maybe just humor for the sake of how well the other "professional" products have faired.


You know, like the chop block or sumthin'.


^_^


----------



## FusionRx

Yeah.. Kaliedescape machines are very good solutions to the problem of non-computer person wanting a stable robust system. Now whether they are worth the money is a different questions. I see your 6tb system and then there's this 4.6Tb array (in a ATX chassis). http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....714871&page=10 (go about halfway down page to see buildlog for this computer). Two very nice homebrew alternatives to the Kaliedescape....


Damn I wish I could afford all those hard drives...


----------



## SmX

Thats Cool. This is my storage solution Right Here It has 16 400 Gig WD 7200 SATA Drives.


Problem with this is it cannot be put in the Theater due to how loud it is. It will be put inside my house in a ACed Closet. It is a Dual Fibre Channel Set up Using an Atto Dual Channel Celerity Fibre Card.


----------



## SmX

Coming soon...


----------



## FusionRx

So of the two, you prefer the one with no perfs? (Dazian CCC) or the one with the tiny holes (Clearpix)???


----------



## exipnos

Not sure what Sandman thinks of the clearpix yet, but its pretty clear that the CCC did not work for him.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, it was too good to be true.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was the Coated Celtic Cloth I received, I even tried both sides. It was total Garbage.
> 
> 
> I'm just wondering if it perhaps works better with LCD projectors opposed to DLP? Bottom Line, for Me is it's not happening in my Room.
> 
> 
> Ruben


----------



## exipnos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update For Friday:
> 
> 
> Here are the Bass Traps on the Stage. These will be behind the Screen wall and will never be Seen by a human except for me if I ever change the Speakers or Something back there. They started off as 24" x 96" 5.5" Cotton Batts. They all got cut down to Triangles and got compressed in the left and right corners of the Stage.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Hi Ruben,


I'm was planning on doing some corner bass traps in the back of my HT. Now when my house is in being constructed I can see that my HT side wall interfers with light entering the living room (window is in a corridoor leading to the HT). I therefore plan on removing one back 90degree corner and replacing it with an angled wall. l'll loose one bass trap but the HT will look the same on the inside but on the outside I will gains some space. I'm now trying to figure out the dimension of my angled corner.


What are the dimensions of your corner triangles? Are you only installing corner bass traps in the front or in the back corners also? If so what are those dimensions?


Thanks and sorry for the little thread jacking.

Exipnos


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So of the two, you prefer the one with no perfs? (Dazian CCC) or the one with the tiny holes (Clearpix)???



The Dazian is Pure Crap IMO. It Blurs and Muds the picture Big Time.


The ClearPix 2 Material looks the best so far for all the perforated material (Besides the Stewart Micro Perf). But the Steawart MicroPerf isn't as Audio Transparent as the ClearPix2.


If I have to go with a perforated screen material at this point in my testing stages, it will be the ClearPix 2.


Ruben


----------



## CaspianM

What is the effective gain of clearpix 2?

Good work all the way.


----------



## jikkjack

Just out of curiosity...did you by any chance try to project on White GOM??


It is acoustically transparent and honestly may be able to pull off a better picture quality than any of the perf screens you have tested so far...and it comes in a 66" width.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Was this a Bad or Good Oh No?



It was definately meant as humorous like Chirpie thought.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I checked out the Screen Research ClearPix2 Material and I think it's pretty Damn good. There are no noticable Perfs on it and it seems 100% accoustically transparent (unlike the Stewart Microperf). The color looks great, the Clearity looks awesome, wall still looks a tad bit clearer but the wall is not perforated either.
> 
> 
> Extreme close up of the ClearPix2 Material



I hate to ask but are you sure this is not a picture of the back of the Pix2? What I can see through the weave loks like a more solid face. Which, to me, would make more sense facing the projector.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hate to ask but are you sure this is not a picture of the back of the Pix2? What I can see through the weave loks like a more solid face. Which, to me, would make more sense facing the projector.
> 
> 
> Joe



I believe it's the Front, unless screen Research put the material in Backwards on the sample Card. Keep in Mind, that these are extremley close up, zoomed in shots of the Material.


The back side has the same perfs but just a different pattern.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe it's the Front, unless screen Research put the material in Backwards on the sample Card. Keep in Mind, that these are extremley close up, zoomed in shots of the Material.
> 
> 
> The back side has the same perfs but just a different pattern.
> 
> 
> Ruben



That is amazing. So do you believe you have found your screen material?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is amazing. So do you believe you have found your screen material?
> 
> 
> Joe




I believe I found it. Now the question is the Screen Ratio.

I really love the look of a 2:35:1 Format instead of the 16:9 Format


Thanks


----------



## exipnos

Any idea about those corner trap dimensions?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *exipnos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any idea about those corner trap dimensions?



The Corner Traps were 24" x 24" squares cut into 2 halves as triangles.


Ruben


----------



## bpape

Each 24x24 piece yields 4 triangles that are 1.4' x 1.4' x 2' (2' face). You simply cut an 'X' into the material and stack them up. You can easily make slats to hold them in place.


Just take a 1x2 or 1x3 and rip a 45 degree angle on each side. When you mount them on the wall, they'll form a channel to hold the triangles in place. The other side at 45 degrees leaves you a nice surface to staple cloth to and then just trim the edges as you please.


If you don't want to staple, just make a frame with the grille cloth stretched over it and attach to the stirips via Velcro, magnets, etc.


----------



## SmX

Question:


I have the Optoma H-79 DLP Projector, I am making a hush box for it (for cosmetics not noise).


I need to know if the the Lens has to be in the center of the screen (Left to Right). This Projector has the Lens on the Side, so that means the hush box would have to be off centered with the room or made wider so its centered with the room.


I know the Lens should be lined up with the top of the screen.


Thanks


----------



## rm1759

I have a couple of questions on the cotton used in the treatments. I did not see the answers in the thread...


first, did y ou fill all of the panels on the wall with the 2" black cotton batts?


second, exactly what is this material, where did you get it, and how much does it cost?


thanks so much for the help...


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe I found it. Now the question is the Screen Ratio.
> 
> I really love the look of a 2:35:1 Format instead of the 16:9 Format
> 
> 
> Thanks



Do you have pricing yet? I have sent a request into The St. John group but no response yet.


Joe


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I don't know if your projector has side keystone adjustment on the lens, but typically you want the lens to be dead center and aligned with the top of the screen so that you don't need to use any keystone adjustment.


Video purists will tell you that whenever you can avoid the digital keystone adjustment, avoid it.



On a side note, one reason I am not sure of the Magnolia Home Theater people that are now in some of the Best Buy stores is because I have seen them mount projectors too low and then angled up and keystone adjusted to get the image square. Why?


----------



## mashtun

I though most projectors had an offset to the bottom of the image. In other words if the projector is sitting perfectly level on a table and pointing at a wall the the bottom of the image would be some distance below the center of the lens.


My Screenplay 4805 maual has a formula for calculating the offset, depending on the distance away from the screen.


So if the projector were hanging, then you would calulate how far up from the center of the lens the top of the image would be.


I also read in the 4805 FAQ here that if you can aim the projector squarely onto the wall, and not at an angle, then you shouldn't have to use the keystone adjustment. This is supposed to be better, because the keystoning, is done digitally, and distorts the picture.


Don't know if any of this applies to the H71, but if it is, then I would say make a larger box, that makes the PJ look centered.


John


----------



## bpape

Ruben,


I'd agree that the less electronic image manipulation you make the projector do the better. I'd build the box bigger and center the lens.


----------



## SmX

Thanks Guys for all the answers.


BPape answered this question for me on the phone right after I posted it and I forgot to delete it. So I am making a wide Hush Box so the Lens can be centered with the top of the screen and the hush box centered with the Room.


Thanks Again!

Ruben


----------



## Steve Goff




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question:
> 
> 
> I have the Optoma H-79 DLP Projector, I am making a hush box for it (for cosmetics not noise).
> 
> 
> I need to know if the the Lens has to be in the center of the screen (Left to Right). This Projector has the Lens on the Side, so that means the hush box would have to be off centered with the room or made wider so its centered with the room.
> 
> 
> I know the Lens should be lined up with the top of the screen.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Yes, the center of the lens must align with the horizontal center of the screen.


----------



## theirishgonzo

actuley it is also in your projector design. my projector is 10 in above my screen and i dont have to use keystine for it. it is a 8700+


----------



## miltimj

Are you planning a built-in cooling solution for the hushbox?


John (mashtun), the vertical offset depends on the projector. The 4805 is an example of one that does have some offset, whereas the H79 (and my 7700, for example) are zero offset, so the center of the lens should ideally be at the same heigh as the top of the screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you planning a built-in cooling solution for the hushbox?



Nah, I figured I would let the projector Fry










It's going to be open on the back and the A/C Return is right above the projector. It will also have plenty of breething room. I may also cut a hole in the Bottom of the Soffit with the return to suck the hot air up and Out.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## GPowers

You east cost guys stay up late.


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GPowers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You east cost guys stay up late.



Must be something in the water ....


BUd


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

The center of the the lens can be anywhere vertically between the top and bottom edge with the 79's lens shift. It needs to be dead on center horizontally.


I've read that's it's not a great idea to have it right at the max. I gave myself a couple of extra inches to be safe.


Note the location of the intake (bottom) and exhaust (side) give those areas plenty of area to breathe. It does throw off some heat.


The way that thing is designed if you plan on sitting it on a shelf inside the hush box I would build a little extra height for the feet (like putting your car up on a ramp) so that the air intake gets as much air as it wants.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nah, I figured I would let the projector Fry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's going to be open on the back and the A/C Return is right above the projector. It will also have plenty of breething room. I may also cut a hole in the Bottom of the Soffit with the return to suck the hot air up and Out.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Hmmm. I think you might need to open up more than just the back. Even though the return is sucking it is going to need a flow of air to suck.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmm. I think you might need to open up more than just the back. Even though the return is sucking it is going to need a flow of air to suck.
> 
> 
> Joe



Thanks for the Tip. It will be fine buddy, don't worry







There is also a 4" hole in front for the Lens which wont be covered with glass.


Ruben


----------



## chinadog

Hey Ruben,


I'm thinking about using a 1 or 2 space Middle Atantic rank vent for the back of mine for intake. Something like this:











Probably cover the whole think in matching GOM (with the soffit GOM) to blend it better.


Bud


----------



## miltimj

I think Ruben has a fine cooling plan -- I just thought I'd mention it to ensure it's not accidentally overlooked. The fact that there is an intake vent on the bottom, and the top of it will be sucking warm air out. That should be plenty in itself, provided the A/C is always on while the projector is on. If that's not the case, then maybe a thermal sensing fan in the A/C return would be wise (probably in either case). The opening in the back is just a bonus.


----------



## SmX

Some Pictures and Updates.


Here is a picture of the wood trim that will wrap around the room. It is 3 3/4" MDF Sandwiched together and wrapped with the Red oak Veneer. This will be stained to match the light trays and Columns...











Here is the Hush box beginning Stages. It will get Stained as well to match the columns. It is also Red Oak veneer.











here is the projector mounted to the board that will get mounted to the soffit with Rubber Bushings.















































The Back of the Hush Box, It will be covered with a GoM or just left open.


----------



## SmX

Treatments going up...











Lights installed in light trays..




















Masked of the columns for the black Paint inside the grooves.


----------



## SmX

Well Folks,


Tonight we pulled the Da-Lite screen out the Box to check it out.

Just Like BPape said, the Perfs were not noticable from 8 - 10 Feet away from the Screen.


We then did some more comparisons with the Screen Research ClearPix2 Material and Realized it was also Distorting the Image like the Dazian CCC but just not as bad. When the image would be shooting on the CP2 Material, it would lose detail in the clearity of the Picture opposed to being really clear on the Da-Lite material.


So I made a Final Decision to stick with my Original Screen I bought. So we assembled the whole Da-Lite frame and screen in under 5 minutes.


This is one of my guard dogs named Killer Spike...











This shows the Pro Trim, The Material Corners are not Snapped in place yet...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben,
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about using a 1 or 2 space Middle Atantic rank vent for the back of mine for intake. Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably cover the whole think in matching GOM (with the soffit GOM) to blend it better.
> 
> 
> Bud



Hey Bud,


Not a Bad Idea. Its funny, I just picked up that same exact panel last night for my Rack. I think GoM alone will do just as well.


Ruben


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

I have been reading through this thread and I have to tell you it is a great tool that I will definately be using if I ever get a room big enough to build a real Home theatre.


One thing has been bothering me, why did you decide to use MDF with oak veneer instead of solid red oak?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spaceman Spiff* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been reading through this thread and I have to tell you it is a great tool that I will definately be using if I ever get a room big enough to build a real Home theatre.
> 
> 
> One thing has been bothering me, why did you decide to use MDF with oak veneer instead of solid red oak?



The Light trays were originally going to be wrapped with GoM Fabric until I decided to do a wood finish after they were installed. It wouldn't of made sense to rip down all the light trays to redo them in solid Oak. Plus around here, Solid Red oak is $8 a Square Foot and only comes in 12" wide Planks.


There is no way to make half rounds out of solid red oak either. So the next best thing is Veneer. If High end speaker companies like B & W get away with using Veneer on their $8,000 speakers, I'm pretty sure I can too










Ruben


----------



## sk8conz

I hadn't checked the Theatre design forum for several months. BIG mistake







I saw this excellent thread and now have the upgrade itch










I have a room of 19' X 15' with a 12' ceiling, so some of the stuff covered here such as the star ceiling and soffits are of much interest.


I have read the thread start to finish and have a few questions :-


1) Did you use bolts / screws or nails to anchor the soffit frames to the wall and ceilings ?


2) Do you plan to use wall sconces for lighting as well as the halogen downlights ?


3) Do you plan to use rope light in the soffit light tray ? If yes, what color ?


4) I assume that you veneered the light tray after it was up ? How did you get the veneer to behave around the curved front ? Folding it over to do the bottom of the tray would have needed some cuts to allow it to follow the curve ?


5) See the attached picture. From reading the thread, this is how I think the soffit was constructed. If you could add a few dimensions / corrections it would be appreciated.












Thanks


Darrin


----------



## jmorris644

I know when I first ran across this thread I told Ruben how amazing his work was. I have been actively (every day) watching this thread for the last 6 weeks now.


Prompted by many of the comments that people have left in this thread I wanted to say two more things.


First I wanted to thank Ruben for taking the great amount of time to keep this thread going. Taking the pictures, answering questions from all of us, etc. He would possibly have his theater finished by now if not for the 24+ pages on this thread










The second thank you is for those of us that are about to build a HT and for those that are going to take some of Ruben's ideas and incorporate them in out current HTs. I hope Ruben doesn't mind but many of his thoughts and ideas are very incorporatable in other designs.


We just finished remodeling our kitchen and dining room and installing new windows throughout the whole house. During this whole process I have been educating my builder on all of the underlying thoughts regarding a HT installation. Many of these coming from this thread. He is becoming very excited and is starting to come up with ideas of his own! Our next project is the laundry room (yuck, gotta appease the wife) and then the HT (yeah!!) and then the sauna/steambath and then the pool table room and wet bar. And with my builder we should be able to finish the HT in about 3 months from the start. The planning stage is extremely critical for me. I probably won't have the opportunity, from a timing standpoint, to make as many modifications as Rubin has been able to do during the construction phase.


Ruben, thanks for making this thread a one-stop-place for rock solid information on everything from GoM to screen material to acoustic treatments, to etc... It is invaluable!!


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hadn't checked the Theatre design forum for several months. BIG mistake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this excellent thread and now have the upgrade itch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a room of 19' X 15' with a 12' ceiling, so some of the stuff covered here such as the star ceiling and soffits are of much interest.
> 
> 
> I have read the thread start to finish and have a few questions :-
> 
> 
> 1) Did you use bolts / screws or nails to anchor the soffit frames to the wall and ceilings ?
> 
> 
> 2) Do you plan to use wall sconces for lighting as well as the halogen downlights ?
> 
> 
> 3) Do you plan to use rope light in the soffit light tray ? If yes, what color ?
> 
> 
> 4) I assume that you veneered the light tray after it was up ? How did you get the veneer to behave around the curved front ? Folding it over to do the bottom of the tray would have needed some cuts to allow it to follow the curve ?
> 
> 
> 5) See the attached picture. From reading the thread, this is how I think the soffit was constructed. If you could add a few dimensions / corrections it would be appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Darrin




1) Did you use bolts / screws or nails to anchor the soffit frames to the wall and ceilings ?


Screws


2) Do you plan to use wall sconces for lighting as well as the halogen downlights ?


The Downlights is More than enough Lighting in that room. I still may do some sconces to fill up the walls.


3) Do you plan to use rope light in the soffit light tray ? If yes, what color ?

I may use Side Lit Fiber Cable. That way I can change the Color anytime I feel like it.


Prob a regular white rope is what would work best in my case.


4) I assume that you veneered the light tray after it was up ? How did you get the veneer to behave around the curved front ? Folding it over to do the bottom of the tray would have needed some cuts to allow it to follow the curve ?


Yes we veneered It after it was up. We used a paper back veneer because it is very bendable. The wrap araound corners were rounded out a little so the veener could form easily around them.


5) See the attached picture. From reading the thread, this is how I think the soffit was constructed. If you could add a few dimensions / corrections it would be appreciated.


The Soffit started out with a 2" x 2" on the ceiling and then 12" tall MDF got screwed into the 2 x 2. The Bottom of the Soffit was framed out on the floor then put into position with Liquid nails and Screws. Your drawing is close, except their was no framing on the Soffit face where you show the MDF.


----------



## Mark P

I was wondering if your concerned about the reflections off the woodwork being distracting during a movie or do the microperf screens not reflect much light? We really wanted to do some things with wood but after we got the PJ and fired it up and found just how powerful the light is that reflects back into the room it made me curious enough to grab some satin finished table leaves and place them about in the room to see the effect and it was extremely reflective and distracting even on lowest bulb settings.


Just curious if you did any testing ? If you go up 7-8 posts and look at your picture right below " treatments going up......." and look at the soffit you see the white of the walls and wires reflecting with ambient lighting . If you do some testing with this please give your results because we can still opt for wood on stages and things if others are having good results.

Thanks!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was wondering if your concerned about the reflections off the woodwork being distracting during a movie or do the microperf screens not reflect much light? We really wanted to do some things with wood but after we got the PJ and fired it up and found just how powerful the light is that reflects back into the room it made me curious enough to grab some satin finished table leaves and place them about in the room to see the effect and it was extremely reflective and distracting even on lowest bulb settings.
> 
> 
> Just curious if you did any testing ? If you go up 7-8 posts and look at your picture right below " treatments going up......." and look at the soffit you see the white of the walls and wires reflecting with ambient lighting . If you do some testing with this please give your results because we can still opt for wood on stages and things if others are having good results.
> 
> Thanks!



We Should be fine.


There are no panels up to absorb light in these pictures and light is bouncing off all the white walls during the day with a flash. We used a satin finish and if it doesn't work out with the satin, we can always flatten it out.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I Started backing up my DVD collection Yesterday. So Far I managed to get 40 titles in the Back-Up Drives. Takes about 12 minutes to Rip a DVD. I am waiting for the Sony 777 Jukebox to get here so I can compare quality. I may keep older titles in the Jukebox and archive all the newer releases.


I also Got TheaterTek 2.2.1 with FFDShow and dScaler rocking with the Pre-Settings from Vern. The pre-settings that Vern put together for FFdshow and dScaler worked out perfectly for me. Thanks Vern! The Image quality with this set up playing DVD files off the hard drive is insane! It completely blows my Pioneer Elite dv59avi out the box! I was so worried that using a HTPC would suffice one way or another, boy I was dead wrong. Plus this set up does 1080 which is the first DVD player to do it.


Also, by archiving titles on a hard drive, means no more having to go through all the Previews and Menu to watch a movie. Just hit play and the movie is playing all running through FFDshow and dScaler post processing. I think anyone here who is Serious about HT has to Look into doing a High Quality HTPC, it's just the way of the future. And to be honest, setting up the software is really not hard at all. If you know how to read and can follow instructions, you should have no problem. I, myself am not anywhat considered a Software programmer and I made it all work.


A word of wise, If your going to build your own HTPC, Use a nVidia 7800GTX video card. Do not use ATI. I been doing some serious reading after the fact and learned that the 7800GTX is the best card right now for HTPC. I originally made this decision myself based on specs and a few quick readings here and there. I'm glad I made the right choice.


Also, with the Set up I put together, I can Watch a Full Screen Movie through TheaterTek with ffdshow and dscaler post processing and also Rip DVDs in the Backround. Doing all that only uses 35% of my CPU while also running 22 other Processes in the normal windows enviroment. The Tempature during all this amazingly stays below 40 celcius as well. So other words, I have allot of Headroom to do other Stuff as well at the Same time.


So if your planning on building a Serious HTPC, follow my parts list above (case is variable) and you should be golden.


Ruben


----------



## G-force

Really cool step by step of the build but personally from an investor's standpoint I think I would have added this onto the structure rather than eliminating the possibility of future owners having a garage. I'm sure there's a guy out there looking for a house with a HT, but I'd bet the majority of potential buyers would rather have the option of automobile storage. Unless of course you have another set of detatched garages on the property.


Either way Awesome planning and execution. The finished product will be remarkable.


----------



## DenW

Hi Ruben,


Been following this thread for quite a while now. Utterly amazing!!

Can't wait to see the finished theater.


The HTPC looks cool also. You commented on processor load when using ffdshow and theatertek. Out of curiosity, could you see what the load is when playing a HD-WMV 1080 file? (the ones you can find on http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...tShowcase.aspx )


Thanks,

Den


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I Started backing up my DVD collection Yesterday. So Far I managed to get 40 titles in the Back-Up Drives. Takes about 12 minutes to Rip a DVD.



Sandman,


12 minutes? What are you using? Could you give us some specifics on what set of software you're using?


I am just finishing my own HTPC and want to start archiving my DVD's as well, but the array of software seemingly required, and the steps to do it properly is dizzying.


thanks for your help in advance,


Jerry


P.S. awesome theatre!


----------



## Rahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-force* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really cool step by step of the build but personally from an investor's standpoint I think I would have added this onto the structure rather than eliminating the possibility of future owners having a garage. I'm sure there's a guy out there looking for a house with a HT, but I'd bet the majority of potential buyers would rather have the option of automobile storage. Unless of course you have another set of detatched garages on the property.
> 
> 
> Either way Awesome planning and execution. The finished product will be remarkable.



I think that he said earlier that he was planning on building some sort of new vehicle storage afterwards.


But, I do agree with you, a garage is a must.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could you give us some specifics on what set of software you're using?



I believe the software was discussed a page or two back. It was even concieved by one of the forum goers of this site.


Now if Ruben wanted to add some more details as to the actual process of adding the dvds (and whether or not he took out extra features or audio tracks... really, what are you going to do with that Dolby track on the War of the Worlds DVD? ^_^ ) then I'd be all for it.


At his disgression and leisure of course...


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> 12 minutes? What are you using? Could you give us some specifics on what set of software you're using?
> 
> 
> I am just finishing my own HTPC and want to start archiving my DVD's as well, but the array of software seemingly required, and the steps to do it properly is dizzying.
> 
> 
> thanks for your help in advance,
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> P.S. awesome theatre!



one method is


Get AnyDVD, install and setup to go straight to movie to avoid all the rubbish


Open windows explorer and copy Video TS file (from DVD drive) to where ever movies are stored and when finished rename the new file with the movies name.


If you use TheaterTek to play the movies you can have it auto aspect ratio by playing 1 second of the movie and choosing proper aspect ratio as well as choose auto DTS or DD.


The speed at which it rips to the HD must depend on several variables like DVD drive, Processor and memory since I can rip 3 movies at one time and my fastest ripping drive is on 32' of USB cable , go figure? My server takes 20 minutes and the HTPC take 10-15 on a 7 gig movie.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also Got TheaterTek 2.2.1 with FFDShow and dScaler rocking with the Pre-Settings from Vern. The pre-settings that Vern put together for FFdshow and dScaler worked out perfectly for me. Thanks Vern!
> 
> 
> A word of wise, If your going to build your own HTPC, Use a nVidia 7800GTX video card. Do not use ATI. I been doing some serious reading after the fact and learned that the 7800GTX is the best card right now for HTPC. I originally made this decision myself based on specs and a few quick readings here and there. I'm glad I made the right choice.
> 
> 
> 
> So if your planning on building a Serious HTPC, follow my parts list above (case is variable) and you should be golden.
> 
> 
> Ruben



What does Dscaler do that theatertek doesnt? I have not checked into it .


Have you tried the ATI cards to see the difference between them and the 7800? I have heard the new ATI X1x00 Sapphires with AVIVO are comperable to $3000 scalers and supposedly outshine the NVidia Pure video Drivers. I really wish there was hard fact on all this


Whats the audio end of your HTPC? SPDIF passthrough off motherboard?


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe the software was discussed a page or two back. It was even concieved by one of the forum goers of this site.



I looked but only saw hardware parts list.. I'll look again..


thanks!


Jerry


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I looked but only saw hardware parts list.. I'll look again..
> 
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> Jerry



Somewhere around post 635 sandman said this:


"Yes, for software I'm using the Cinemar Main Lobby/DVD Lobby/Music Lobby Package. To me, they by far have the best looking front end software and I like the organization of everything. Plus it can control up to 12 Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxs.

I'm also using TheaterTek for the archived Video Playback. I already started adding titles to the Database. I'm also gonna experiment with the Charmed Quark and See how that goes."


They talked a bit about it after that...


----------



## ebr

Sandman, I know you've settled on your screen but I'm really puzzled by your description of the CCC since I haven't seen anyone else who'd used it be dissatisfied. Did you try both sides of it? I noticed on mine that there is definitely a "coated" side (more uniform and brighter) and a non-coated side...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-force* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Really cool step by step of the build but personally from an investor's standpoint I think I would have added this onto the structure rather than eliminating the possibility of future owners having a garage. I'm sure there's a guy out there looking for a house with a HT, but I'd bet the majority of potential buyers would rather have the option of automobile storage. Unless of course you have another set of detatched garages on the property.
> 
> 
> Either way Awesome planning and execution. The finished product will be remarkable.



Where I live, you don't have much property to do anything with. Also, out of my neighborhood about 5 people put their cars in there garage. Everyone else just uses them to store unused junk like I use to.


I have no intention on selling my home within at least the next 10 years. So even if I sell the house and have to rip the theater down, I would of gotten well more than my moneys worth. We also have a 4 Car Driveway for parking.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> 12 minutes? What are you using? Could you give us some specifics on what set of software you're using?
> 
> 
> I am just finishing my own HTPC and want to start archiving my DVD's as well, but the array of software seemingly required, and the steps to do it properly is dizzying.
> 
> 
> thanks for your help in advance,
> 
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> P.S. awesome theatre!



I'm Using CloneDVD. The process is rather simple, Load CloneDVD up set your settings 1 time to Last forever (ie. what Folder, Main Feature or whole DVD) and then hit the Start button. Clove DVD even names the Movie Title folder for you.

Since I have a built in 7" Touch Screen on my HTPC, I can do everything self contained. So as I'm working throughout the Day I rip DVDs. Once the dvd is ripped, an alarm sounds, I eject, put a new DVD in and hit the start button again. This repeats like this all day without having to keep changing settings or naming folders.


As far as what I'm ripping, I'm only ripping the main Feature of the DVD and all the Audio formats. It takes between 9 - 13 minutes to Rip the main feature and Audio. I leave out all the other junk (Menus, Previews, extra Features, etc.) This makes it so when I run DVD lobby I select a Movie by the cover click On it and the movie strts to play right away. You can even have your animated theater Logo play on the big screen between Hitting play and the Movie Playing.


Here is a screen Shot of the HTPC Screen with CloneDVD...


----------



## mashtun




Mark P said:


> Have you tried the ATI cards to see the difference between them and the 7800? I have heard the new ATI X1x00 Sapphires with AVIVO are comperable to $3000 scalers and supposedly outshine the NVidia Pure video Drivers. I really wish there was hard fact on all this
> 
> 
> Ok first let me say I just got back from the Case Western Reserve University Science Fiction film festival. First movie started a 8 PM Friday, Last movie ended 5:30 Am this morning then car trouble, fixing car trouble, ETC. So am going on about 6 hours sleep since 9 AM Friday morning, so bear with me on any mistakes.
> 
> 
> I don't have any experience with the new ATI cards, but a friend has one of the older RADON all in wonder cards, and I would never buy it.
> 
> 
> It is so complicated that everytime he tries to set it up with a PJ, that is usually takes him about 20 to 40 minutes to get it working. It never seems to work the same way twice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He has been through 4 different cards. First one died, the next three did not work, until he at ATI's insistence changed out his power supply.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When using it as a Tivo like device, and he fast forwards to avoid commercials the card us just as likely to fast reverse, or just plain crash the PC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, mixed with all the other bad experiences i have has with ATIs I just can't see buying one.
> 
> 
> John


----------



## SmX

I did Some Very Interesting Tests today Thanks to the Comment from DenW above. Today I learned exactly how powerfull the HTPC I put together was.


First, I went to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/wi...ntShowcase.aspx and downloaded the 1080p HD trailer of The Living Sea (IMAX)


Then I went to http://www.apple.com/trailers/ and downloaded the 1080 HD trailer of "King Kong" and the 1080 HD trailer of "The Hills Have Eyes".


I have 3 Computers handy next to each other

one is the AMD Dual Core HTPC I built, See The Specs Here 

one is a SONY VAIO PCV RS 410 P4 2.6 with 1 gig of Ram

the other is a Apple G5 Dual 2.7 with 4 Gigs of Ram.


I ran these 1080p trailers on all 3 machines and this is what I found out...



*First Lets Start with the Sony Vaio.*


I ran the 1080p The Living Sea (IMAX) trailer on it in WMP and it kept dropping massive frames. The Movie kept freezing up and was unbearable so I stopped it. I had the Task manager opened during the Playback and the CPU was running at 100% (Probably alot more than that)


I also tried to run the 1080 King Kong trailer on the Sony Vaio with Quicktime and that was not happening.


Here is a Screen Shot from the Sony Vaio Task Manager while the 1080p Trailer in WMP was trying really hard to play.













*So Next Let's Move onto the Apple G5 Dual 2.7*


I ran the King Kong 1080 Trailer on this Machine and launched the Activity Monitor and the CPU was at 52 - 60% usage, the trailer played straight through smoothly. Then I ran Both of the 1080 Trailers and the CPU usage was 85% - 90% and after playing smoothly for about 30 Seconds Quicktime would crash.



*So Now Lets move onto the HTPC I built.*


First I ran the HD 1080p trailer of The Living Sea (IMAX) with WMP and the CPU was at 19% Usage and it played through smoothly.


Then I played the Same file in TheaterTek 2.2 with ffdshow and dScaler with Verns Settings. The CPU then Jumped up to 29 - 33% Usage.


So Then I went for Broke...


I played the Same 1080 file in TheaterTek 2.2 with ffdshow and dScaler with Verns Settings. I also Played a HD 1080 WMP Trailer, A Quicktime 1080 Trailer of King Kong while Ripping a DVD in CloneDVD. All this running at the Same time Smoothly with no dropped frames and the CPU Usage was at 84% Still enough room to run alot more stuff





























Here are some screen Shots...


This is the 1080 HD Footage of The Living Sea (IMAX)











Here is My AMD HTPC Not running any Video..











Here is the 1080 HD Footage of The Living Sea (IMAX) running on WMP...











Here is the CPU usage orf TheaterTek with ffdshow and dscaler and Verns Settings...











Here is the CPU Usage of the 3 1080 HD Trailers playing at the Same Time while CloneDVD is Ripping a DVD..











Pretty Interesting.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

This has got to stop.


First we were AMUSED when you built a staggered stud wall but didn't put any drywall on the outside . And then of course it wasn't high enough.


Then we were in AWE when we saw all that Woodworking detail.


Now we are just plain GREEN with envy.


Will you build one for me?


I like that Hush Box but I have some concerns. I really think the air intake on the bottom needs a little more breathing room. If you are covering it with GOM I'd cut out a section.


I'm not sure how you are going to hang that thing but be sure to plan to be able to take it down every 6 months or so for a bulb replacement.


You will need to set up your lens shift in advance of closing it in since it is a manual adjustment, then fine tune the placement of screen after. Also if you plan on having someone calibrate the beast in the service menu, I'm pretty sure you have to access all the buttons manually to get to the service menus.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This has got to stop.
> 
> 
> First we were AMUSED when you built a staggered stud wall but didn't put any drywall on the outside . And then of course it wasn't high enough.
> 
> 
> Then we were in AWE when we saw all that Woodworking detail.
> 
> 
> Now we are just plain GREEN with envy.
> 
> 
> Will you build one for me?



You Got Jokes, huh?







To Clarify the Staggered Studded wall with no Drywall on the outside, that was just me building walls too fast







If I would of just done a regular 2 x 4 wall I would of saved a whopping $50







Hey, at least all my walls are framed the same way now.










As far as making the ceilings higher, it was one of those things you had to be there to witness. I am so damn Happy I didn't do 8' ceilings now, that extra foot is like a mile in the room now. With the 8 Foot ceilings I would of been banging my head on the Soffits on the Platform (I'm 6'-3" Tall).


As far as Making a HTPC for you, Lets Do it!


Fun, Fun, Fun, that's what this is all about!


Ruben


----------



## theirishgonzo

alot of the power is in the vid card you have a 500 dollar card there. i my self witnt with dual msi 7800gt the olny thing i notice is i did install xp pro and not xp pro 64 and i do have some problems with some of my drivers.



that is a sweet setup and i love the case.


well off to watch lord of war


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like that Hush Box but I have some concerns. I really think the air intake on the bottom needs a little more breathing room. If you are covering it with GOM I'd cut out a section.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how you are going to hang that thing but be sure to plan to be able to take it down every 6 months or so for a bulb replacement.
> 
> 
> You will need to set up your lens shift in advance of closing it in since it is a manual adjustment, then fine tune the placement of screen after. Also if you plan on having someone calibrate the beast in the service menu, I'm pretty sure you have to access all the buttons manually to get to the service menus.



Thanks for your concerns,


All the spots on the Projector that has grills or vents are open with plenty of Airflow in the Box. Plus the Grills on the Bottom are accessable without having to take the projector off the mounting plate. The Hush box will get finished as well like the columns. Also, the projector has a Tempature cut off if it starts getting too hot.


As far as changing bulbs, the hush box cover is held in place by 8 screws.

This was all thought out ahead of time.


The projector mounts to the Soffit without having the hush box cover in Place. So all manual adjustments can be made before putting the Hush Box Cover on.



Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

This thread is amazing. Superb work and attention to detail in everything.


We are going to have to ask the mods to create a special search index just for this thread alone. Its that big and has all the information you need. Its hard traversing 25 pages to remember where you saw a particular item.


Im about to start my theater build thread, but I think I will wait until this one is finished so I can get some views LOL...


Great job man.


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread is amazing. Superb work and attention to detail in everything.
> 
> 
> We are going to have to ask the mods to create a special search index just for this thread alone. Its that big and has all the information you need. Its hard traversing 25 pages to remember where you saw a particular item.
> 
> 
> Im about to start my theater build thread, but I think I will wait until this one is finished so I can get some views LOL...
> 
> 
> Great job man.
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Thanks Ronnie. Yeah this thread is getting quite big here isn't it? Nothings worst than having to read through 25 pages to find a post.


----------



## radm1f




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> *So Next Let's Move onto the Apple G5 Dual 2.7*
> 
> 
> I ran the King Kong 1080 Trailer on this Machine and launched the Activity Monitor and the CPU was at 52 - 60% usage, the trailer played straight through smoothly. Then I ran Both of the 1080 Trailers and the CPU usage was 85% - 90% and after playing smoothly for about 30 Seconds Quicktime would crash.




Your HTPC is truly amazing, I wonder if there would be much difference now with the dual core intel macs.


Couple of questions, the SATA array which you mentioned would be outside of the room is that connected to an APC power and does it have its own fuse box or running on the same panel as the rest of the equipment? And does your HTPC accept the fiber straight from the SATA array?


Thanks,


Mehran


----------



## DenW

Hi Ruben,


Glad i asked the question







That's some PC you've built there! Amazing you can run 3 HD streams and still rip a DVD on the background.


Thanks very much for taking the time to try it and take the screenshots.


----------



## bembol

This is just sick...!!! I only clicked on a few pages and I'm amazed already...can't wait.


----------



## jrfuda




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, by archiving titles on a hard drive, means no more having to go through all the Previews and Menu to watch a movie. Just hit play and the movie is playing...



Ruben, one great feature of the 777 is that, using the disc direct command, you can skip all the previews and go right tom the movie as well. On 99% of all DVDs the feature is title #1. The big violator of this rule is Dreamworks, who always put "forced previews" as title #1 and usually hide the feature as the #15 or something.


To overcome this, I use one of DVDLobby's custom fields to specify "prefered title" so that, as long as I know the feature's title, will always start the DVD on the feature (requires some extra MLServer Commands, though). It works very well.


However, I cannot agree with you more about the value of being able to remove extras sometimes. Yesterday I was trying to play a Baby Einstein DVD for my son in the car, and it took a good 3 minutes to get through the menues and get the mvoies going on my cheapo portable player. I've already ripped all of these DVDs to my HTPC once already (I usually rip things less than 1 hour long to HTPC and things over 1 hour long I put in the 777 - did a cost per gigabyte analysis, based on what paid for the 777 and what I paid for my HDDs and determined that 60 minutes was the "breaking point" where - say - 2.5GB of HDD space for 1 hour of DVD quality video costs less than one "slot" in my changer - which is worth up to 9.4 GBs for a DL DVD.) Anyway, I decided yesterday that I was going to rip all of my Boy's Baby Einstein DVDs to DVD-Rs and put them in a portbale carrier in the car so we'll have menu-free instant acess to these while we're on the road. Probably a good idea to do for some other DVDs as well that we may want to view on the road - so we won't have to remove them from the changer when we travel.


----------



## FusionRx

Ruben,


Question is, how does your quad G5 with 10gb of ram play the HD trailers/previews? What kind of performance can you get out of that?










Jrfuda: Baby Einstein DVD's are great, but I agree all the menus are a pain. How did you shrink the big 8.5Gb dvd master to fit onto the 4.5 dvd-r?


----------



## jrfuda




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...How did you shrink the big 8.5Gb dvd master to fit onto the 4.5 dvd-r?



After you play with DVDShrink for a while and beginto really look at DVDs, you'll realize that most DVDs do not use the full capacity of the DVD format.


Most _Baby Einstein_ DVDs are only 30 minutes in length, and even with menues intact, rarely exceed 3GB - they're usually more like 2.2GBs. This is (I imagine) becuase they're 4:3 material that is really VHS quality on a DVD, so it's a low bit rate.


I have even thought about reauthoring the 12-odd disc collection into maybe 3 or 4 discs with my own custom menus, or no menus with each title just playing in order - given the source material it could be compressed rather aggressively (maybe 50%) without much quality loss.


Our Holiday DVDs - _Frosty, Rudolph,_ and the rest - are in the same boat. Barely takeup 2 GBs on the original DVD with complete menus.


What's funny, is many feature length films are like this too. When I first started using DVDShrink, I backed-up a couple of my discs just to see how it worked and to tweak my settings. Several discs - especially older comedies, are single-layer discs and don't even fill up the entire layer... we're talking ~3GB full length features with menus and everything... I think _Happy Gilmore_ was one of them, if I remember correctly. I've also tried DVDshrinking a few of my REALLY full DVDs. On some of these discs, the feature alone is like 7.7 GBs. With these you have to use DVDShrinks compression settings and leave out all extra features and audio tracks in order to get it to fit on a 4.5 GB single-layer disc. I played the disc on my 50" TV along side the original (I put one in my changer and the other in my old single disc player - that I still use for rentals) and switched my recevier back-and-forth between them and could not see or hear a diffference in quality. However, the quality diff may become noticeable on something the scale of what Sandman's doing.


Look here for some good information on backing-up your DVD collection to both HDD's and additional DVD: http://forum.digital-digest.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm Using CloneDVD. The process is rather simple, Load CloneDVD up set your settings 1 time to Last forever (ie. what Folder, Main Feature or whole DVD) and then hit the Start button. Clove DVD even names the Movie Title folder for you.



Ruben,

Thanks! I had discovered AnyDVD which someone mentioned earlier and I can copy most DVD's to HDD.. there are some it won't do and of course, I get all the extras.. I'll try CloneDVD from the same company!


I was pleasantly surprised to see how many players support the _TS format.. MCE does and even freebie Media Player Classic.. so does Sage TV..


I don't have anywhere near the storage you have, however. So, I will begin to experiment with some compression (I'll probably start with Divx and maybe DVDShrink as jrfuda recommends above.), but I'm sure that will limit the players/UI I'll be able to use.


My aim is to have a wife-acceptable UI for music/movies/stored video.. i'm going to leave live video from my Moto cable STB for now as the quality is untouchable..


Thanks again!


Jerry


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To overcome this, I use one of DVDLobby's custom fields to specify "prefered title" so that, as long as I know the feature's title, will always start the DVD on the feature (requires some extra MLServer Commands, though). It works very well.



Hey JrFuda,


Do You use ffdshow with TheaterTek or Zoom Player? I was talking to Vern Dias yesterday and he said that when you run 720 or 1080 HD content to TheaterTek, TheaterTek disables the post processing for ffdshow and dScaler if you use his settings.


This is what he said...


"If you click on the .ifo file, then it's just like playing a DVD.


If you used my latest version, there is a limit that says don't resize if the source is over 600 pixels high or 800 pixels wide. I believe Dscaler is still applied, though.


However TT also has a switch and the default is only to use the video PP if the file types are .ifo or .vob. File types must match the selected file types in the Files dialog to be eligible for ffdshow processing.


Vern"


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Thanks! I had discovered AnyDVD which someone mentioned earlier and I can copy most DVD's to HDD.. there are some it won't do and of course, I get all the extras.. I'll try CloneDVD from the same company!
> 
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised to see how many players support the _TS format.. MCE does and even freebie Media Player Classic.. so does Sage TV..
> 
> 
> I don't have anywhere near the storage you have, however. So, I will begin to experiment with some compression (I'll probably start with Divx and maybe DVDShrink as jrfuda recommends above.), but I'm sure that will limit the players/UI I'll be able to use.
> 
> 
> My aim is to have a wife-acceptable UI for music/movies/stored video.. i'm going to leave live video from my Moto cable STB for now as the quality is untouchable..
> 
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> Jerry



that was me that suggested AnyDVD and I have never found a DVD it wont copy out of hundreds , I take that back .....when I had an older DVD drive (couple years old) I used to get some cyclic redundancy error all the time and when I bought a newer dvd drive all my problems went away, AnyDVD has fixes for their software almost on a dailey basis to fix any disc that wont copy. You can go into the settings and remove all the junk I think, maybe not but you can certainly start the movie without menues and such


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey JrFuda,
> 
> 
> Do You use ffdshow with TheaterTek or Zoom Player? I was talking to Vern Dias yesterday and he said that when you run 720 or 1080 HD content to TheaterTek, TheaterTek disables the post processing for ffdshow and dScaler if you use his settings.
> 
> 
> This is what he said...
> 
> 
> "If you click on the .ifo file, then it's just like playing a DVD.
> 
> 
> If you used my latest version, there is a limit that says don't resize if the source is over 600 pixels high or 800 pixels wide. I believe Dscaler is still applied, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vern"



Did Vern mention what settings must be changed to make his settings work with ffdshow via Theatertek? I tried his settings last night and my CPU usage went from 30% to 70% so I figured his settings must be working on my 720P projector . the picture cleaned up considerably and I want to keep the PC forced at 720P for media center and internet surfing. Could you explain a little more detailed your statement :


"However TT also has a switch and the default is only to use the video PP if the file types are .ifo or .vob. File types must match the selected file types in the Files dialog to be eligible for ffdshow processing."


Maybe I have something setup right by accident, I remember awhile back playing around with the ATI drivers and setting them to play video at 800 x 600 or something like that but keep the PC at forced 720P


----------



## jrfuda

I use ZoomPlayer. I scale every thing to the native resolution of my set - 1280x720 - so there's not too much upconversion. I think I don't fully utilize FFDShow, and rather just use it as a codec and not a scaler/filter. I think all of the scaling is performed by ZoomPlayer and its manupulation of the various codecs for playback.


My HTPC serves as my automation PC 99% of the time, with it only being called to serve as an actual HTPC for the playback of pre-movie trivia and trailers - and for playing the couple dozen movies (kids movies) I have stored on HDD - so it's hardware is geared more towards stability and reliability for home automation and less towards mulitmedia. Heck, the video card in it is a 5-year old ATI Radeon 7500!


That said, I've tried using various levels of scaling and filtering with FFDShow, with less than desireable effect... My frame rates were in the tens and teens, even with just scaling and/or a little additional filtering. Becuase of this I let ZoomPlayer handle the scaling and just use FFDShow as a codec - so my PC-based playback system is not a good reference.


Eventually I will build another PC and have a PC dedicated to just mulitmedia playback (a true HTPC - maybe one in each viewing location).


Here's a thread over at CocoonTech (a great automation site) where I discuss my latest integration project(s): http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=3387


----------



## FusionRx

SandmanX: Any chance you could share the 'Vern settings' for your FFDShow+ other software etc? I'd like to see if the 'tuned' version he gave you improves the settings on my lowly HTPC :-/


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


I may have missed it but have you decided on the sound card and HDTuner for your HTPC yet? If so, could you please share that with us


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX: Any chance you could share the 'Vern settings' for your FFDShow+ other software etc? I'd like to see if the 'tuned' version he gave you improves the settings on my lowly HTPC :-/



heres the link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6555637


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radm1f* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your HTPC is truly amazing, I wonder if there would be much difference now with the dual core intel macs.
> 
> 
> Couple of questions, the SATA array which you mentioned would be outside of the room is that connected to an APC power and does it have its own fuse box or running on the same panel as the rest of the equipment? And does your HTPC accept the fiber straight from the SATA array?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mehran



The Storage would go in an outside closet due to the loudness of it. I'm actually considering building a quiet case for the storage and just transfer the 16 Drives to the new case. The reason that case is so loud is because its made to accept allot of heavy duty transferring for video Rendering, plus it has the swappable drives. I do have an APC and the closet it would of gone in would on had a dedicated line. The Storcase is Fibre to SATA using an ATTO celerity PCI-x Dual fibre Channel Card.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenW* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> Glad i asked the question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's some PC you've built there! Amazing you can run 3 HD streams and still rip a DVD on the background.
> 
> 
> Thanks very much for taking the time to try it and take the screenshots.



Thanks Den. I can actually run 4 1080 HD Streams I found out today. So yes the System is working rather well







The DVD ripping doesn't use much CPU on this system (I think like 5% at most).


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, one great feature of the 777 is that, using the disc direct command, you can skip all the previews and go right tom the movie as well. On 99% of all DVDs the feature is title #1. The big violator of this rule is Dreamworks, who always put "forced previews" as title #1 and usually hide the feature as the #15 or something.
> 
> 
> To overcome this, I use one of DVDLobby's custom fields to specify "prefered title" so that, as long as I know the feature's title, will always start the DVD on the feature (requires some extra MLServer Commands, though). It works very well.
> 
> 
> However, I cannot agree with you more about the value of being able to remove extras sometimes. Yesterday I was trying to play a Baby Einstein DVD for my son in the car, and it took a good 3 minutes to get through the menues and get the mvoies going on my cheapo portable player. I've already ripped all of these DVDs to my HTPC once already (I usually rip things less than 1 hour long to HTPC and things over 1 hour long I put in the 777 - did a cost per gigabyte analysis, based on what paid for the 777 and what I paid for my HDDs and determined that 60 minutes was the "breaking point" where - say - 2.5GB of HDD space for 1 hour of DVD quality video costs less than one "slot" in my changer - which is worth up to 9.4 GBs for a DL DVD.) Anyway, I decided yesterday that I was going to rip all of my Boy's Baby Einstein DVDs to DVD-Rs and put them in a portbale carrier in the car so we'll have menu-free instant acess to these while we're on the road. Probably a good idea to do for some other DVDs as well that we may want to view on the road - so we won't have to remove them from the changer when we travel.



When the Sony JukeBoxes arrive here, Me and you are going to become very good friends










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Question is, how does your quad G5 with 10gb of ram play the HD trailers/previews? What kind of performance can you get out of that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jrfuda: Baby Einstein DVD's are great, but I agree all the menus are a pain. How did you shrink the big 8.5Gb dvd master to fit onto the 4.5 dvd-r?




Good Question, I have to go down to the Studio to test that one. I'm going down there later on and I will Post the results.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Thanks! I had discovered AnyDVD which someone mentioned earlier and I can copy most DVD's to HDD.. there are some it won't do and of course, I get all the extras.. I'll try CloneDVD from the same company!
> 
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised to see how many players support the _TS format.. MCE does and even freebie Media Player Classic.. so does Sage TV..
> 
> 
> I don't have anywhere near the storage you have, however. So, I will begin to experiment with some compression (I'll probably start with Divx and maybe DVDShrink as jrfuda recommends above.), but I'm sure that will limit the players/UI I'll be able to use.
> 
> 
> My aim is to have a wife-acceptable UI for music/movies/stored video.. i'm going to leave live video from my Moto cable STB for now as the quality is untouchable..
> 
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> 
> Jerry



Sounds good. I'm really new at this whole DVD ripping on the PC too. I find that CloneDvd is working great and I don't have to enter new settings with every DVD I Load up to rip. I only had problems with one DVD so far (I forgot Which one) but I know it was a newer Sony release. The Sony DVDs that don't rip on the PC, I can Rip on the Mac with MacTheRipper since it does Arrcos encoded DVDs.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Could you explain a little more detailed your statement :
> 
> 
> "However TT also has a switch and the default is only to use the video PP if the file types are .ifo or .vob. File types must match the selected file types in the Files dialog to be eligible for ffdshow processing."
> 
> 
> Maybe I have something setup right by accident, I remember awhile back playing around with the ATI drivers and setting them to play video at 800 x 600 or something like that but keep the PC at forced 720P



That Statement above was from Vern. What he is Saying is that TheaterTek will Only use Post Processing (ie ffdshow, dscaler) by default when using .ifo and .vob files not HD Files. Also he is saying the correct file types in ffdshow must be enabled for postprocessing.


I see someone else gave you the link to Verns Settings.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theirishgonzo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> alot of the power is in the vid card you have a 500 dollar card there. i my self witnt with dual msi 7800gt the olny thing i notice is i did install xp pro and not xp pro 64 and i do have some problems with some of my drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> that is a sweet setup and i love the case.
> 
> 
> well off to watch lord of war



Thanks. I try my best










Ruben


----------



## NYNole




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds good. I'm really new at this whole DVD ripping on the PC too. I find that CloneDvd is working great and I don't have to enter new settings with every DVD I Load up to rip. I only had problems with one DVD so far (I forgot Which one) but I know it was a newer Sony release. The Sony DVDs that don't rip on the PC, I can Rip on the Mac with MacTheRipper since it does Arrcos encoded DVDs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Great thread ... fun to watch and very informative ... check it every day ...


the newest version of clone should take care of the "sony issue" I had the smae problem so I went to the website and noticed on Dec 23 they added:


> Quote:
> CloneDVD 3.9 released. Newly added new Sony ARccOS decryption, copy ARccOS protected DVDs smoothly, so far remove all protections (CSS, RC, RCE, UOPs and Sony ARccOS) while copying.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I may have missed it but have you decided on the sound card and HDTuner for your HTPC yet? If so, could you please share that with us



Still Looking, If any of You guys here have recommendations, Let me know. I'm going Digital out for the audio and doing the processing in my Hardware Processor. So I think the optical out on the Motherboard may be fine from what I been reading in the High End Forums. But I am currently considering the EMU 1820M for the sound card.


As far as HD cards, thats a whole new batch of research I need to do. I still don't know what I'm suppose to do with the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE I got. All I do know is Im running out of Slots here. I have one PCI-X and one PCI slot left here.


Let me Know ...

Ruben


----------



## miltimj

If you're not going to game on the HTPC, then the digital out on your motherboard should be just fine.


----------



## theirishgonzo

i have 1 queston about the 777 sony it has r g b but no dvi or hmdi will this matterin quality? i would like a jupebox dvd player but would i get better quality with a dvd with dvi or hmdi?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're not going to game on the HTPC, then the digital out on your motherboard should be just fine.



Thanks miltimj. I heard This from many other people here as well.

To me, It just Seems so funny to run my whole System off a little built in optical out, but it looks like it will be fine. I did hook up the optical out to my system already and it sounded fine, but I couldn't judge it too well.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well Folks,


It's that time of the year *Changes by David Bowie playing in the backround* "Ch, Ch, Ch, Changes"


Well first off, let me say this. I was going to keep the perforated Da-Lite Screen. But tonight, after watching some brighter Movies with the Awesome "Vern Dias" Settings in ffdshow, I saw a Severe case of Moire on all the light scenes. After speaking to BPape about this, I tried Moving the Screen over to shoot on the wall to see if the Moire still esisted and it was gone.


The combination of the Digital Projector and the Perforated holes caused Moire effect on the Screen. For those that don't know what Moire is, here is the Definition out of the Dictionary "denoting or showing a pattern of irregular wavy lines like that of such silk, produced by the superposition at a slight angle of two sets of closely spaced lines." Other words, the picture had waves in it due Due to the perforated screen and digital projector not seeing eye to eye.


So Now what? I tried the Dazian CCC material and I didn't like it, I tried the Screen Research Clearpix2 and I liked it a little bit but the picture loses Detail with it.

I also tried the Stewart Micro Perf, I like it but its too expensive and the Da-Lite perforated has issues with Moire with my PJ.


After Speaking to BPape, we decided to change the speaker placement and go with a Non Perforated Screen. I have plenty of space on the Sides to do speakers on the ends but the original plan called for all front speakers to be behind the Screen. So I gave this new info to BPape and he put in all the calculations for placement and reflection points. Now I just need to make some small changes to the Front Side treatments to address the reflection points.


Ruben


----------



## drzoomn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So Now what? I tried the Dazian CCC material and I didn't like it, I tried the Screen Research Clearpix2 and I liked it a little bit but the picture loses Detail with it.
> 
> I also tried the Stewart Micro Perf, I like it but its too expensive and the Da-Lite perforated has issues with Moire with my PJ.
> 
> 
> Ruben



hey ruben,


what PJ are you using? i wonder if projecting a different size image could solve the problem (although probably not a fix if you're set on a size, etc). or maybe rotating the screen fabric? i have no experience with video moires, so i could be talking out my my arse, but i know moires from printing, and i'd try that stuff if it was happening to me.


i'm totally set on perf screen for my project, so i'm interested in what your situation is.


btw, the theater looks great so far!


----------



## exipnos




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still Looking, If any of You guys here have recommendations, Let me know. I'm going Digital out for the audio and doing the processing in my Hardware Processor. So I think the optical out on the Motherboard may be fine from what I been reading in the High End Forums. But I am currently considering the EMU 1820M for the sound card.
> 
> 
> Let me Know ...
> 
> Ruben



The optical out is fine if you have a good receiver, but its key that your motherboard puts out a bitperfect audio signal. Check if thats the case.


How high end do you like to go, and whats your budget for the soundcard? ?


The fact that you will be using a HTPC, you know that it can offer video quality superior to many very expensive scalers. The same could be true on the audio side. The DACs in a high end soundcard such as the EMU1820M, RME or Lynx are usually better quality then many receivers. You could then run analogue out from the PC into your power amplifier. But I'm sure you knew this already.


With such a powerful HTPC you should look into using some of that power for audio processing. I'm specifically thinking of DRC software. Take a look at http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page . Some of these setups can compete or surpass high end TACT systems. Take a look at the success stories page.


There is a guy (ShinOBIWAN) over at diyaudio that have experimented with high end soundcards such as the RME HDSP9632 and the Lynx TWO B soundcard with Apogee DAC. Apparently he's now got the RME Fireface 800 which he considers equal or even supperior to the lynx/apogee setup. If thats to steep then I'm sure the EMU1820 would offer you a very good setup with DRC.


take a look at this thread for more info about PC DRC setup.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=63078


----------



## R-U-Q-R-U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> Well first off, let me say this. I was going to keep the perforated Da-Lite Screen. But tonight, after watching some brighter Movies with the Awesome "Vern Dias" Settings in ffdshow, I saw a Severe case of Moire on all the light scenes. After speaking to BPape about this, I tried Moving the Screen over to shoot on the wall to see if the Moire still esisted and it was gone...
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Do you know if this is a problem with all micro-perf screens or just the combination of your projector and screen? Has anyone else seen this problem?


----------

Howard


----------



## bpape

At this point, the DaLite is the only one he's been happy with in terms of detail - outside the Stewart. The Stewart is going to be out of budget by a long shot for a perf screen in the size he's doing.


We had discussed this early on in the design phase. Sometimes digital PJs and perf screens just don't mate well. In this case, he works with video for a living and is very sensitive to video related issues. While having the center behind the screen as well as the mains is desirable, in this case, for his preference, it's just not going to be acceptable to him.


There will be some other changes to the plan to accomodate this mod but for the most part, they're relatively minor due to where the project stands. The front wall (false) will need to be modified to accomodate the new speakers positions. The reflection points change (though this is not as big a deal with the ML speakers as their dispersion is more limited than most dynamic speakers, etc.


Potentially, the screen could move back further but probably not. On the bright side, now that the mains are not behind the screen, that leaves us LOTS of room for those 2 Danleys to move around and find just the right spot without being restricted to what the mains leave you.


Gotta find that silver lining!










Bryan


----------



## SVonhof

Howard, moire has been around for a long time and happens occationally as bpape says when you combine a fixed pixel projector (CRT's don't have this problem, since they don't have pixels) and a perforated screen. I used to visit a forum for my projector ( www.thebigpicturedvd.com forum) when I first got it.


Anyway, Don Stewart was a regular on the forum since people were experiencing moire with the Sony 10HT projector and his screens. He worked with people and was able to find screens that fit the needs of people, even shipping them replacement screen materials at no cost to aleviate the problem. So, while Stewart may be more expensive, if somebody is stuck with putting the speakers behind the screen, I beleive that the Stewart screens is a great way to go. If you have issues, call Stewart and see how much they will work with you on the issue to resolve it.

Also, for those going with a perforated screen, one of the advantages of the micro-perf screens from Stewart is they have fewer issues with moire because the holes are so much smaller.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well Folks,
> 
> 
> we decided to change the speaker placement and go with a Non Perforated Screen.
> 
> 
> Ruben



So where are you going to place the center channel speaker? Under? Over?


----------



## Mark P

You could do a constant height setup which would get you a little more room for your speaker. In a room like that I dont think I would go any other way, most of the good stuff is in 2.35:1 anyway and you gain more resolution when watching that aspect ratio and loose none with 1.78:1. Youre doing HTPC with Theatertek, no need for a scaler


We did the same thing , decided against any type of perf or clearpix. It just wasnt worth the loss of picture. We moved our speaker down below because we had no choice and found it still sounds the same as it did in the middle and we were concerned because the screen is so large.


In all our testing the only difference between high and low was the back rows, high is preferrable but in our case , not happening.


Good luck!


Did you fire up the PJ and screen in the actual theater room? I am still kind of waiting for your output of reflectiveness of your beautiful woodwork.


----------



## miltimj

Man, that is definitely too bad. I've been setting my mind on a perf/mesh screen, but I'm definitely second guessing now, as I've heard the SR Clearpix2 is one of the best out there, and if doesn't work very well with the digital projector, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be happy with it. I'll still get some samples when the time comes, though.


You bring up a good point, Mark.. Actually, I was kind of assuming Ruben was going to go 2.35:1. That's definitely a requirement in my future project. If I end up going with a non-perforated, then I'll be saving quite a bit of money and will likely try two centers, one above and one below. Larry Chanin has done this with great results. (The theory purists will say that it can cause a comb filtering effect, but Larry hasn't experienced that, and the theorists that I read didn't have much practical experience in the area).


Good luck with whatever you decide.. Your decisions haven't failed you thus far! (It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone like Bryan giving advice, either!)


----------



## jmorris644

Can you guys maybe clarify a question for me? It is in regards to the 777s. If running the video through TheaterTek gives you 1080p and all of the advantages of losing the pre-movie stuff, why would you install 777s?


I believe that I must missing something here. WOuldn't the quality of playback through the 777s be far inferior to the htPC playback?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## chiabob

I'd take a hit on the quality to save me the time and $$$$ of ripping 1000 DVDs to hard drives. Let's see, my computer takes about 15-20 min per DVD to rip. Times that by 1000 and I just spent half my life sitting in front of the HTPC, not to mention the $4000 I would have to spend on hard drives for a setup that could handle that much information


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiabob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd take a hit on the quality to save me the time and $$$$ of ripping 1000 DVDs to hard drives. Let's see, my computer takes about 15-20 min per DVD to rip. Times that by 1000 and I just spent half my life sitting in front of the HTPC, not to mention the $4000 I would have to spend on hard drives for a setup that could handle that much information



I stopped at 200, when will I ever watch 200 movies? I just load the goodies on release day now. 15-30 minutes a week isnt that bad.


----------



## david_pflanzer

Great thread! I have a similar attention to detail as you have... but it has its downside... it takes me forever to finish something. You seem to be moving at a quick pace. My theater is still in the planning stages but I have grabbed a lot of ideas from your well documented process. Thanks much!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiabob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd take a hit on the quality to save me the time and $$$$ of ripping 1000 DVDs to hard drives. Let's see, my computer takes about 15-20 min per DVD to rip. Times that by 1000 and I just spent half my life sitting in front of the HTPC, not to mention the $4000 I would have to spend on hard drives for a setup that could handle that much information



You really hit the nail on the head! I've been archiving HDTV Movies off HBO and Showtime for the last five years. When I actually count up the time and money I have spent it just doesn't seem to add up. I probably spend 10 times more doing this than I do watching movies. There is certainly something to be said about the KISS approach.


David.


----------



## jrfuda




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you guys maybe clarify a question for me? It is in regards to the 777s. If running the video through TheaterTek gives you 1080p and all of the advantages of losing the pre-movie stuff, why would you install 777s?
> 
> 
> I believe that I must missing something here. WOuldn't the quality of playback through the 777s be far inferior to the htPC playback?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



There are several reasons why it's nice to have both a 777 and HDD-based movie collection.


1. Cost per movie - uncompressed - is cheaper in a 777. Even ay 5GB per movie (which will require some compression on most movies) You'd need 2TB of space in order to equal the storage capacity of the 777, and if you figure you're using a RAID5 volume (which is the most common RAID type for media servers, and probably the one that makes the most sense) you need 2TBs + 1 HDD (so, 8+1 (9) 250GB drives, 7+1 (8) 300GB drives, or 4+1 (5) 500GB drives. Given the price of the RAID5 hardware, plus drives and PC - the cost gets very high per movie. However, if your ultimate goal is to be able to watch something different on ever TV in the house, then the extra cost is worth it.


2. As others have said, it's a lot easier to stick a disc in a changer slot than to copy it to HDD, and there are some movie that just can't be copied, even if you re-author it, use a DVD Decrypter & DVDShrink Combo, etc. I have some movies that play fine in my DVD players, but give me CRC errors when I try to back them up with either program.


Yes, the playback _may_ be somewhat inferior to HTPC playback, but you have to remember that the source material is always 480i - no matter what! So any improvements you get with scaling - whether using FFDShow, DScaler, or an external hardware scaler is still manipulating a 480i picture.


I've seen some side-by-side shots in various threads on various forums 'round the net and the quality increase you get from scaling is subjective. I think some really hardcore videophiles may actually prefer an unscaled picture - though I don't know, and I can't tell on my meger 720p 50" set. This morning I finished hooking up a modulator to my DVDChanger and watched about five minutes of a movie in a remote room - Now, the TV was only a 32" SD model, but the picture looked awesome to me - and this was a "TV" channel for goodness sakes! I'm sure if I viewed the modulated content on my 50" or something bigger I would have noticed quality issues, though (I think there may have been a wee bit of a herringbone pattern in the pic - but you had to really look for it).


One day, when I can copy an uncompressed movie onto HDD for about $1.25 per movie - including the cost of building the PC storing the movie and all HDDs & RAID cards, I'll switch to a purely HDD-based system. If I win the lottery or my investments really take off, then I may raise the cost per movie threshold, however










For someone who has more money budgeted for this kind of thing, hoever, I'd say an HTPC-based system is a great way to go.


What I think Ruben should do, is get his 777, slowly copy all his movies to HDD, removing them from the 777 as he does, and when the 777's empty, he should sell it to me for a song!


----------



## Ktulu_1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...and there are some movie that just can't be copied...



Never have I seen such a beast. If you're having problems with ARccOS protection, there are ways around that.







DVD Decrypter hasn't been updated in a while and needs help.


----------



## mig1868

What a great thread. I have been following it for a while now. I am just getting started with my HT and have made several changes to it from all the different things I have seen on here. One change was the columns. I liked the round ones you are doing much better then square. The question I have for you is how exactly are you attaching the column box to the wall? Then how are you attaching the column to the box? If you have already posted this I must have missed it.

I cant wait to see it all finished.


----------



## SmX

Updates.


My internet has been down for the last 2 days. I finally got back online. Were getting Close! Here some pictures of the accomplishments so far.


Now the Big Question is.. To Sconce or Not to Sconce? What do you guys think?

There is plenty of light in the room with the Downlights in there alone. Do You thik sconces on the Walls will detail it better or too much?



These following 4 pictures are with the work lights on...


This is off the front stage..











Side Wall..











Right Rear quarter of room...











Left Rear Quarter Room, Notice Equipment Rack on left.











Front stage Lighting...











This Picture, Work Lights off, back of theater...











The is where the projector and Hush Box is going...











Notice holes for sucking out the hot air of the projector...


----------



## Psychoholic

Man that is simply incredible. I have had to completely change my plans for my theater since I've been following yours! My wife and I love it!


Chris


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drzoomn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hey ruben,
> 
> 
> what PJ are you using? i wonder if projecting a different size image could solve the problem (although probably not a fix if you're set on a size, etc). or maybe rotating the screen fabric? i have no experience with video moires, so i could be talking out my my arse, but i know moires from printing, and i'd try that stuff if it was happening to me.
> 
> 
> i'm totally set on perf screen for my project, so i'm interested in what your situation is.
> 
> 
> btw, the theater looks great so far!



I'm using the Optoma H-79. I tried rotating and changing the angel of the screen with no improvement. However, if you shake the screen side to side fast enough it eliminates the Moire. Maybe I can build a big vibrator for the Screen?







The Projector is incredibly clear though.


Here is a Picture of the Moire...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *exipnos* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The optical out is fine if you have a good receiver, but its key that your motherboard puts out a bitperfect audio signal. Check if thats the case.
> 
> 
> How high end do you like to go, and whats your budget for the soundcard? ?
> 
> 
> The fact that you will be using a HTPC, you know that it can offer video quality superior to many very expensive scalers. The same could be true on the audio side. The DACs in a high end soundcard such as the EMU1820M, RME or Lynx are usually better quality then many receivers. You could then run analogue out from the PC into your power amplifier. But I'm sure you knew this already.
> 
> 
> With such a powerful HTPC you should look into using some of that power for audio processing. I'm specifically thinking of DRC software. Take a look at http://www.duffroomcorrection.com/wiki/Main_Page . Some of these setups can compete or surpass high end TACT systems. Take a look at the success stories page.
> 
> 
> There is a guy (ShinOBIWAN) over at diyaudio that have experimented with high end soundcards such as the RME HDSP9632 and the Lynx TWO B soundcard with Apogee DAC. Apparently he's now got the RME Fireface 800 which he considers equal or even supperior to the lynx/apogee setup. If thats to steep then I'm sure the EMU1820 would offer you a very good setup with DRC.
> 
> 
> take a look at this thread for more info about PC DRC setup.
> 
> http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=63078



Thanks for all the info exipnos


The EMU 1820 should do the job for me, I am still reading up on the info you gave me as well. I have an all Marting Logan set up for Speakers.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R-U-Q-R-U* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Do you know if this is a problem with all micro-perf screens or just the combination of your projector and screen? Has anyone else seen this problem?
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> Howard



The Stewart Micro Perf material seems to be Fine. I only have an 8.5" x 11" sample and can't really tell at this point. This moire effect doesn't happen with CRT projectors from what I'm told. It does happen with some digital projectors, what are digital projectors don't have this problem? You got me.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So where are you going to place the center channel speaker? Under? Over?



If anything, Definatley Over the screen.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You could do a constant height setup which would get you a little more room for your speaker. In a room like that I dont think I would go any other way, most of the good stuff is in 2.35:1 anyway and you gain more resolution when watching that aspect ratio and loose none with 1.78:1. Youre doing HTPC with Theatertek, no need for a scaler
> 
> 
> We did the same thing , decided against any type of perf or clearpix. It just wasnt worth the loss of picture. We moved our speaker down below because we had no choice and found it still sounds the same as it did in the middle and we were concerned because the screen is so large.
> 
> 
> In all our testing the only difference between high and low was the back rows, high is preferrable but in our case , not happening.
> 
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> 
> Did you fire up the PJ and screen in the actual theater room? I am still kind of waiting for your output of reflectiveness of your beautiful woodwork.



Yeah, I learned about constant height 2.35:1 screens after I ordered my 16:9. Now that I have to Return or sell this Da-Lite, I will Most likely be doing a 2.35:1.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, that is definitely too bad. I've been setting my mind on a perf/mesh screen, but I'm definitely second guessing now, as I've heard the SR Clearpix2 is one of the best out there, and if doesn't work very well with the digital projector, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be happy with it. I'll still get some samples when the time comes, though.
> 
> 
> You bring up a good point, Mark.. Actually, I was kind of assuming Ruben was going to go 2.35:1. That's definitely a requirement in my future project. If I end up going with a non-perforated, then I'll be saving quite a bit of money and will likely try two centers, one above and one below. Larry Chanin has done this with great results. (The theory purists will say that it can cause a comb filtering effect, but Larry hasn't experienced that, and the theorists that I read didn't have much practical experience in the area).
> 
> 
> Good luck with whatever you decide.. Your decisions haven't failed you thus far! (It certainly doesn't hurt to have someone like Bryan giving advice, either!)



Yeah it Sucks. I do allot of Video work, restoration, color correction, etc. and Picture quality is a must for me. The Clearpix2 just aint cutting it with this Optoma H-79. Maybe CP2 works better with a CRT and LCD PJs, who knows?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great thread! I have a similar attention to detail as you have... but it has its downside... it takes me forever to finish something. You seem to be moving at a quick pace. My theater is still in the planning stages but I have grabbed a lot of ideas from your well documented process. Thanks much!
> 
> 
> David.



Thanks David, Glad to be of help to your building process.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mig1868* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What a great thread. I have been following it for a while now. I am just getting started with my HT and have made several changes to it from all the different things I have seen on here. One change was the columns. I liked the round ones you are doing much better then square. The question I have for you is how exactly are you attaching the column box to the wall? Then how are you attaching the column to the box? If you have already posted this I must have missed it.
> 
> I cant wait to see it all finished.



Hi mig1868,


We used 2" x 2" furing strips vertically on the wall to mount the columns to. The columns got glued and Nailed to the 2 x 2's. The half rounds got glued and nailed to the boxes from Behind.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Psychoholic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man that is simply incredible. I have had to completely change my plans for my theater since I've been following yours! My wife and I love it!
> 
> 
> Chris



Thanks! Glad you Like it. The good thing about the red panels is that the color can be changed if I get sick of it in the future. The Panels are velro to the walls and can be easily removed and easily refabric. Also the color of the Wood will match up to allot of neutral colors as well.


I set it up that way just in case when I get a little older, I may like Brown or something










Ruben


----------



## HeyNow^

That ceiling really adds depth. Looks like a summer night sky. Simply awesome.


----------



## KWhite

Looking great. I wouldn't do any more lighting, looks perfect as is. Slightly defocusing the projector will aleviate some of the morie pattern as will a depixelator.


----------



## ebr

Sandman, you're killing me...


Your room looks sooo good but it doesn't fit the style of my house so I can't just copy it







. Keep up the awesome work.


----------



## spamboy

Just to chip in on the PC thing (great room btw). I've had both an RME and the emu 1212m (2 channel version of the 1820m) in my HC and found the RME has a superior sound (aeb8-O and DIGI 9636 - now in my stereo system). I've just bought an HDSP 9632 for the HC.


Personally I'd definitely look at the RME cards, especially if you plan to listen to music in the room.


----------



## SVonhof

I don't know about the others, but I like the light patterns you can get from sconces. As for light, that isn't what you would put them in for, since they really are not going to put out all that much light. Most sconces are made so that they use reflected light off the walls and ceiling to help light the room and in your case (is it is with many home theaters) the area around the sconces really don't reflect light well, which of course is good for HT, but not good for lighting. Do what you think will look best and go from there.


----------



## FusionRx

For a decent and not so expensive sound card you could always look at the Bluegears X-mystique (and the X-raider(out March), and the X-plosion (out Jan) also from Bluegears). zipzoomfly sells them. I beleive the link is www.bluegears.com


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben...


I'm sort of waffling on sconses for your space! I think that sconces might add another layer of lighting, but then again I think the space could be used for movie posters or the like.


If you have another space in mind for posters, then I say go ahead with some sconces.


To be honest, the on;y time you'll want that much light on in the room, is when you're showing it off to friends, otherwise the down lighting you have is plenty to find your seat and start up the flick.


Sean


----------



## Mark P

It looks pretty darn good the way it is, sconces will clutter it up in that size room unless they are very, very cool. They will take away from the columns unless you were making sconces to match the columns I say bleh


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

On the sconces. Right now the Blue tape actually adds a little interest to the design because of the contrast with the dark red tones in the room. Once you remove the tape and put the black on the bottom of the walls and the speaker covers the overall look may be a little "flat". not in a negative way but just a description of a large area of dark tones.


Therefore the right sconce would be like adding a visual jewel. It might make all the difference. But it will take just the right sconce. I'd also like to see those ferrari chairs in there so that we really get the overall effect. I'd say make sure the wiring is in place, finish the room, bring in the chairs then stand back and try it with and without a sconce.


----------



## Z06Racer

My vote is for no sconces. I really like the clean lines of the room. You have heard it a million times but, I really appreciate the time you take to document the progress of your room. It has helped me out a lot. Thanks


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all the feedback guys. The opposite wall in the pictures has 2 doors (equipment opening and entrance) so sconces may not work too well on that wall.

I will, however, run the needed wiring for future sconces.


RUben


----------



## jrfuda

That's beautiful - I agree that your starfield makes it look like you have your roof opened to a clear night sky - at least from that angle.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the sconces. Right now the Blue tape actually adds a little interest to the design because of the contrast with the dark red tones in the room. Once you remove the tape and put the black on the bottom of the walls and the speaker covers the overall look may be a little "flat". not in a negative way but just a description of a large area of dark tones.
> 
> 
> Therefore the right sconce would be like adding a visual jewel. It might make all the difference. But it will take just the right sconce. I'd also like to see those ferrari chairs in there so that we really get the overall effect. I'd say make sure the wiring is in place, finish the room, bring in the chairs then stand back and try it with and without a sconce.



Do you know of any good online sconce places?

I would like to look at something more contemporary.


Ruben


----------



## david_pflanzer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you know of any good online sconce places?
> 
> I would like to look at something more contemporary.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I was in Atlanta awhile back and checked out the new Ikea in midtown. They had a good selection of modern lighting including some sconces. The prices are unbeatable. I'm in Tampa and it takes me about 6.5hrs... so it would surely be a day trip for you in Boca. Please note that not all the items in the store are represented in their online store -- you really have to shop there.


But you are a creative guy. Why not build them? You could use some frosted glass framed in a geometric wood structure (that would tie in your colums). I can see it.


David.


----------



## ntjbjhq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was in Atlanta awhile back and checked out the new Ikea in midtown. They had a good selection of modern lighting including some sconces. The prices are unbeatable. I'm in Tampa and it takes me about 6.5hrs... so it would surely be a day trip for you in Boca. Please note that not all the items in the store are represented in their online store -- you really have to shop there.
> 
> 
> But you are a creative guy. Why not build them? You could use some frosted glass framed in a geometric wood structure (that would tie in your colums). I can see it.
> 
> 
> David.




Agree about Ikea, I was in there today as a matter of fact, looking at the lighting as well. They are definately modern! I wonder if they allow photo's in their stores, most places are not very keen on that, and my only camera is a bit large (canon 1ds). Maybe some other locals have a small point and shoot they could sneak a few shots of the available lighting? Anyone up for some recon work?


Robert


----------



## Mark P

This one would look sweet! http://www.bigbangelectronics.com/pr...ebraska_sconce 


Seriously though I saw a website that was mainly theater seating and they had the best looking sconces around. Im trying to find it but they had some Comedy/Tradgedy masks that looked very cool ( they were actually real masks that made a great looking glow out of the top , bottom, eyes, and mouth) and they werent cheap or hokie looking. They also had alot of neat all Glass ones with about every color imaginable.


----------



## ntjbjhq

Good selection here: http://www.htmarket.com/homtheatligw.html


----------



## Mark P

This place has hundreds http://www.zaneen.com/


----------



## R-U-Q-R-U

Ruben,


Your theater is looking great. I hope one day to emulate your efforts.


Regards,


Howard


----------



## SVonhof

 http://www.lampsusa.com 


from this:










to this:










to this:










and more


----------



## 704set

Here's a couple of places I used for my HT

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...ter=yes&TID=92 
http://www.homeportfolio.com/catalog...atId=454#12755 
http://www.maximlighting.com/home.html 
http://www.minka.com/ 
http://www.feiss.com/ 


And I ended up going with 6 of these
http://www.homeclick.com/showpage.asp?itemid=167613 


Skip


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah it Sucks. I do allot of Video work, restoration, color correction, etc. and Picture quality is a must for me. The Clearpix2 just aint cutting it with this Optoma H-79. Maybe CP2 works better with a CRT and LCD PJs, who knows?
> 
> 
> Ruben



I had the opportunity to see a clearpix2 screen (8 foot wide) with a Ruby (un-calibrated) projector. From what I could observe, anywhere within 4 feet of the screen you could see the pattern of the fabric. From 15 feet, where we were sitting it looked wonderful to me. Even at a 60 degree angle to the screen the picture looked fantastic. I tried really hard, because I knew the fabric pattern was there, but I was unable to discern any pattern at the 15 froot range. I don't know the differences between the Optima H-79 and the Ruby and if that would make a difference or not. Plus, because of Ruben's profession, I am sure that his eye is far more critical than mine. Personally, I was amazed by the depth of the picture. They were displaying I,Robots with no sound. (They had not hooked up the sound system yet.)


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There are several reasons why it's nice to have both a 777 and HDD-based movie collection.
> 
> 
> 1. Cost per movie - uncompressed - is cheaper in a 777. Even ay 5GB per movie (which will require some compression on most movies) You'd need 2TB of space in order to equal the storage capacity of the 777, and if you figure you're using a RAID5 volume (which is the most common RAID type for media servers, and probably the one that makes the most sense) you need 2TBs + 1 HDD (so, 8+1 (9) 250GB drives, 7+1 (8) 300GB drives, or 4+1 (5) 500GB drives. Given the price of the RAID5 hardware, plus drives and PC - the cost gets very high per movie. However, if your ultimate goal is to be able to watch something different on ever TV in the house, then the extra cost is worth it.
> 
> 
> 2. As others have said, it's a lot easier to stick a disc in a changer slot than to copy it to HDD, and there are some movie that just can't be copied, even if you re-author it, use a DVD Decrypter & DVDShrink Combo, etc. I have some movies that play fine in my DVD players, but give me CRC errors when I try to back them up with either program.
> 
> 
> Yes, the playback _may_ be somewhat inferior to HTPC playback, but you have to remember that the source material is always 480i - no matter what! So any improvements you get with scaling - whether using FFDShow, DScaler, or an external hardware scaler is still manipulating a 480i picture.
> 
> 
> I've seen some side-by-side shots in various threads on various forums 'round the net and the quality increase you get from scaling is subjective. I think some really hardcore videophiles may actually prefer an unscaled picture - though I don't know, and I can't tell on my meger 720p 50" set. This morning I finished hooking up a modulator to my DVDChanger and watched about five minutes of a movie in a remote room - Now, the TV was only a 32" SD model, but the picture looked awesome to me - and this was a "TV" channel for goodness sakes! I'm sure if I viewed the modulated content on my 50" or something bigger I would have noticed quality issues, though (I think there may have been a wee bit of a herringbone pattern in the pic - but you had to really look for it).
> 
> 
> One day, when I can copy an uncompressed movie onto HDD for about $1.25 per movie - including the cost of building the PC storing the movie and all HDDs & RAID cards, I'll switch to a purely HDD-based system. If I win the lottery or my investments really take off, then I may raise the cost per movie threshold, however
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For someone who has more money budgeted for this kind of thing, hoever, I'd say an HTPC-based system is a great way to go.
> 
> 
> What I think Ruben should do, is get his 777, slowly copy all his movies to HDD, removing them from the 777 as he does, and when the 777's empty, he should sell it to me for a song!



Thanks John, Lots of good information here. Does the Sony have a digital out? Could it be hooked up to the htPC in such a way to use the Sony for it's near-online access but run the content through the htPC and be able to use the scalar capabilities on the pc?


Joe


----------



## david_pflanzer

I still vote for a custom build sconce. If you like modern art like I do, let your inspirations be your guide.


Whaddya think?


Free museum edition pocket protectors to those who can guess this apparatus :>












David.


----------



## bpape

Personally, I'm not convinced you need the sconces. If you're looking for something just as a piece of jewelry so to speak, something modern but relatively small would be my suggestion.

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall...?family=150488 
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall...px?family=8859 
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...?family=130868 
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall...?family=149471 (garcia glass)
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/wall...?family=154257


----------



## SmX

Awesome Sconces Guys!!! Thanks for all the Links.


Ruben


----------



## johnathan

Ruben

With your ability I would build somthing to compliment the beautiful work you have done so far ! You seem to be a master of wood and that is where I would start ! Johnathan


----------



## jrfuda




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks John, Lots of good information here. Does the Sony have a digital out? Could it be hooked up to the htPC in such a way to use the Sony for it's near-online access but run the content through the htPC and be able to use the scalar capabilities on the pc?
> 
> 
> Joe



No, it can only be controlled via a PC. Sony has a new MCE PC that has a built-in 200 disc changer, though, but I don't know if the video goes directly out of the changer or is processed through the PC. It's very expensive too.


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry

My 2 cents... (for what it's worth..)


I don't think you need sconces.. they way you are lighting those columns makes them glow.. showing off that great wood grain.. almost virtual sconces, if you will.. I think it would detract from the columns if you put sconces in there..


Jerry


----------



## Rahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ChiTown_Jerry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 2 cents... (for what it's worth..)
> 
> 
> I don't think you need sconces.. they way you are lighting those columns makes them glow.. showing off that great wood grain.. almost virtual sconces, if you will.. I think it would detract from the columns if you put sconces in there..
> 
> 
> Jerry



My exact thoughts.


You have an awesome theater with great lines. Throw some sconces in there, and it will throw everything off. Just my opinion though.


Keep up the great work! I love every bit of it.


----------



## jrfuda

I agree - no sconces...


although, I bet you could easily build some that look like these: http://www.htmarket.com/accentsconce.html with your skills that would fit-in nicely with your design.


----------



## radm1f

Just amazing!!


I would vote for no sconces, for more lighting I would opt for hidden row of lights behind the wooden trim that reflects light on the side panels with dimmers. This way if the lights are off no one can see the fixtures or bulbs themselves, and when you need to vacuum or change things you can brighten the room to your liking.


Your transparency, balance and depth of knowledge in all aspects of this project is greatly admired and appreciated.


Mehran


----------



## ScottJ0007

I'll throw in my vote for no sconces. Your theater has such great lines and visual interest, I think the sconces would distract, rather that add to the appearance. If you really think you may want the sconces, I would just make sure you are wired for them but then wait until the theater is finished to make your final decision.


I see all your panels are up. They look great. Do you have any details on how you built and installed them? I looked back through the tread but didn't find any detail.


I'm a bit reluctant to make this next comment because I think all of your work is truly awesome; however, every time I look at your star ceiling, the stars appear just a bit too uniform. It almost looks unnatural. Can the star brightness be changed after the fact to be more varied in intensity or is it fixed in stone at this point? Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?


----------



## Milt99

No sconces.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll throw in my vote for no sconces. Your theater has such great lines and visual interest, I think the sconces would distract, rather that add to the appearance. If you really think you may want the sconces, I would just make sure you are wired for them but then wait until the theater is finished to make your final decision.
> 
> 
> I see all your panels are up. They look great. Do you have any details on how you built and installed them? I looked back through the tread but didn't find any detail.
> 
> 
> I'm a bit reluctant to make this next comment because I think all of your work is truly awesome; however, every time I look at your star ceiling, the stars appear just a bit too uniform. It almost looks unnatural. Can the star brightness be changed after the fact to be more varied in intensity or is it fixed in stone at this point? Has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?



Thanks Scott,


The Stars twinkle and the pattern of the Stars are a mimick of the Alpha Centauri Solar System. This was the only pattern I could find that I could blow up big enough to mimick for the whole ceiling.


Each panel contains a different group of stars to make this up (12 Panels in total with 600 Stars). Also, what you dont see in the pictures besides the Shimmering of stars, is the various brighter & dimmer stars or the shooting stars.


Believe me, the last thing I would want would be a repeating pattern of stars.


Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Scott,
> 
> 
> The Stars twinkle and the pattern of the Stars are a mimick of the Alpha Centauri Solar System. This was the only pattern I could find that I could blow up big enough to mimick for the whole ceiling.
> 
> 
> Each panel contains a different group of stars to make this up (12 Panels in total with 600 Stars). Also, what you dont see in the pictures besides the Shimmering of stars, is the various brighter & dimmer stars or the shooting stars.
> 
> 
> Believe me, the last thing I would want would be a repeating pattern of stars.
> 
> 
> Ruben



C'mon, Scott... After reading this thread, did you really think that Sandman would have done anything less than attend to every single detail on this? I mean, what he's probably not telling us is that he has actually matched the individual colors of each "star" to match the actual make up of gasses known to be contained within each one.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> C'mon, Scott... After reading this thread, did you really think that Sandman would have done anything less than attend to every single detail on this? I mean, what he's probably not telling us is that he has actually matched the individual colors of each "star" to match the actual make up of gasses known to be contained within each one.



That's a whole other thread.









But yes, I was a bit anal about the pattern not being repetative and looking real as possible without doing large clusters of stars and big empty spots.


Ruben


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> C'mon, Scott... After reading this thread, did you really think that Sandman would have done anything less than attend to every single detail on this? I mean, what he's probably not telling us is that he has actually matched the individual colors of each "star" to match the actual make up of gasses known to be contained within each one.



Of course I knew Sandman would attend to every detail. He also probably hasn't told us that his other hobby is astronomy and that he HT ceiling can do double duty as a planetarium and he can replicate any Solar System known to man







. But I still had to ask the question because of the way the pictures appeared. When I was showing off his theater to my wife she commented on it too. She also wants a star ceiling in our theater now!


----------



## SmX

Updates:


Well today we got the rest Of the Panels framed Out, got the Door installed, and managed to fabric one of the lower panels. Heres some Pictures...






































These are the Bottom Frames without the Fabric in place until tomorrow...


----------



## Big Worms

Just simply amazing Ruben! I know you here it alot but it is true!


Question, how did you do this panel?


----------



## SmX

Someone above asked how we made our panels. Well here you go...


First we Cut and routered all our wood. We used particle board to make them. The method we used to made these panels will prove to last for a very long time without sagging or bowing. They are quite easy and fast to make once all your wood is cut and routered..


Layout and glue your back. We use ProBond Glue its the worlds strongest Wood glue.











put your sides on Glued and Nailed..











Then its ready for Fabric...











Here it is without fabric in the wall...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Worms* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just simply amazing Ruben! I know you here it alot but it is true!
> 
> 
> Question, how did you do this panel?



Thanks!


That is 3 panels made into one big panel before it goes up. Here is a back shot...


----------



## KWhite

Damn. Nice work.


Hey, is this some sort of DIY scam. Do you have like 10 people working on this with you? That is a lot of routering and nailing for one guy to do.


----------



## Ted White

LOL!!!! Do it yourself scam! That's great!


----------



## ebr

Do I remember correctly that those panels are held in with velcro? Are the wood trim pieces velcro'd too, or did you nail those?


----------



## KWhite

You know, now that I think about it, even these pictures are too good. Looks professional to me. Some sort of covert Home Depot scam to get us all to work on our own HTs.


We are on to your devious little plan now!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course I knew Sandman would attend to every detail. He also probably hasn't told us that his other hobby is astronomy and that he HT ceiling can do double duty as a planetarium and he can replicate any Solar System known to man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . But I still had to ask the question because of the way the pictures appeared. When I was showing off his theater to my wife she commented on it too. She also wants a star ceiling in our theater now!



How the hell do you guys find Out all my secrets?

The internet gives away too much info.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn. Nice work.
> 
> 
> Hey, is this some sort of DIY scam. Do you have like 10 people working on this with you? That is a lot of routering and nailing for one guy to do.



Thanks. LOL


1 half day of work with 1 man. Once your all set up you just let them rip.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ted White* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL!!!! Do it yourself scam! That's great!



Ted! Where have ya Been???


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do I remember correctly that those panels are held in with velcro? Are the wood trim pieces velcro'd too, or did you nail those?



Yes they are held in place via industrail strength velcro, weatherstripping and a Tight fit. The Weather Stripping is on the back just to avoid any possible rattling, it may of been a bit overkill but better safe than sorry. The Wood strips are Glued and nailed to the drywall.


Ruben


----------



## Milt99

Sandman,

Where's your source for industrial strength velcro?

I could use some in my project.

Thanks.


BTW, there is no such thing as overkill on a project such as your's.


----------



## 2.35:1

How does 1 attach a picture?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> Where's your source for industrial strength velcro?
> 
> I could use some in my project.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> BTW, there is no such thing as overkill on a project such as your's.



You can find it at Home Depot in the Hardware Department or the Isle they sell Screws and nails. Loews has it too.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does 1 attach a picture?



I think you need a certain amount of Posts to attach a picture or post a link. It may be in the rules.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, what is it that you are putting behind the fabric? I know you are not leaving the back area behind the fabric empty....


I think you already said it, but in your panel pics, you don't mention or show it.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, what is it that you are putting behind the fabric? I know you are not leaving the back area behind the fabric empty....
> 
> 
> I think you already said it, but in your panel pics, you don't mention or show it.



Oh, Oh. Was I suppose to put something back there?










Just Kidding.










There are different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations. You will See it prehung on the wall in some of the previous pictures I Posted. Some are paper faced and some are not.


Ruben


----------



## bmackrell

Sandman,


what's your source for the 2" thick cotton?


billmac


----------



## 2.35:1

Why are you using different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations?

In fact what is 2" 703?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmackrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> what's your source for the 2" thick cotton?
> 
> 
> billmac



I searched High and low for the best prices and the Best Place to get it for the lowest Price is from...
http://sensiblesoundsolutions.com/in...c6567c18f1bd8b 

That is where I got it from.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why are you using different variations of 2" Cotton & 2" 703 in different locations?
> 
> In fact what is 2" 703?



After talking with my Accoustical Sound Consultant guy (BPape), this is what he recommended.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Updates:


Today was a half day of work. We got the Bottom panels and treatments finished and installed.


Here's a few pictures...


We threw some fabric on a grill to get an idea. The grill is about to fall off in the pictures below...





















Here is the equipment rack area.


----------



## 2.35:1

Looking good you should build home theaters fo a living!


----------



## GPowers

Up late working again i see (it is well after midnight on the east cost).


Looks better all the time. When doese all the blue tape come off?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GPowers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Up late working again i see (it is well after midnight on the east cost).
> 
> 
> Looks better all the time. When doese all the blue tape come off?




Yep, well it's only 1am here now. Just finished adding my 1,000 DVDs to dvd profiler so I can import them into Dvd Lobby. So I am real happy I got that out of the way.


The Blue tape is part of the columns, well it now seems like it anyway. Hopefully it comes off Soon. We are just waiting on a finer spray gun to arrive to finish those lines.


I also need to get my ass in gear and order those perforated column grills.

I really been sleeping on that.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking good you should build home theaters fo a living!



Thanks and No Thanks










Ruben


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Hi Ruben,


Looking great and you move so fast on this it is amazing. I really love the color scheme it looks fantastic. I can't remember what you decided to do in the channel on the columns I think you were taking about metal or something, could you elaborate on this please?


The speed you work at it seems you're in two places at once. Getting your HTPC stuff done while building the HT.


When you are done this project things are gonna get a little slow here on the forum.


Keep up the great work it's very inspirational


Rob


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rob_McArthur* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> Looking great and you move so fast on this it is amazing. I really love the color scheme it looks fantastic. I can't remember what you decided to do in the channel on the columns I think you were taking about metal or something, could you elaborate on this please?
> 
> 
> The speed you work at it seems you're in two places at once. Getting your HTPC stuff done while building the HT.
> 
> 
> When you are done this project things are gonna get a little slow here on the forum.
> 
> 
> Keep up the great work it's very inspirational
> 
> 
> Rob



Thanks Rob,


I am very pleased with everything so far except for the hush box. We did it in a finished veneer like the columns and its a bit too boxy and the finish is overkill IMO. I think I'm just gonna Black GoM over it so it gets lost in the room. Its gonna be like those real nice wood floors buried under the Carpets and wood in a old house










Ruben


----------



## Psychoholic

What were the overall internal dimensions of your garage when you started? (the width is cut off in the initial sketch).


Thanks!


----------



## ebr

Hey Sandman - I don't remember this being covered anywhere but are the heights of the side wall panels something like this (from top to bottom):


1'

6'

2.5'


?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep, well it's only 1am here now. Just finished adding my 1,000 DVDs ...
> 
> 
> Ruben



So what are you gonna do with all of your spare time _AFTER_ you are done?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Psychoholic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What were the overall internal dimensions of your garage when you started? (the width is cut off in the initial sketch).
> 
> 
> Thanks!



It Started out 19' 10" x 21' 8" with 9' 1.5" Ceiling


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman - I don't remember this being covered anywhere but are the heights of the side wall panels something like this (from top to bottom):
> 
> 
> 1'
> 
> 6'
> 
> 2.5'
> 
> 
> ?



It's 95" from the Floor to the under Soffit. Another thing you Don't see in my Pictures is the Top Black Panel is Recessed 1" and the Base Board is recessed 1.5" from the 2.25" Panels.


Black Top panel 8.25"

Wood Trim 3.25"

Red Panels 50.25"

Wood Trim 3.25"

Black Panel 10"

Black Panel 5"

Black Panel 10"

Base Board 5"


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what are you gonna do with all of your spare time _AFTER_ you are done?



Start a New Project, of Course! Next we are installing a 1000 gallon reef tank and building a really large wall unit for it.


Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First we Cut and routered all our wood. We used particle board to make them. The method we used to made these panels will prove to last for a very long time without sagging or bowing. They are quite easy and fast to make once all your wood is cut and routered..
> 
> 
> Layout and glue your back. We use ProBond Glue its the worlds strongest Wood glue.



Ruben,


A few questions on your panels:


1) Noticed you used regular particle board vs. MDF -- why? Just because it's less expensive or what you had on hand? I don't think it's that much lighter.


2) Did you have any issues with the wood splitting when you brad-nailed the beveled edges down from the top of the board (as shown in the pic above)?


3) Did you glue and nail the lower frame (before applying the beveled edges)?


4) Any reason you went with 3" width on the lower frame vs. maybe 1.5"?


5) ProBond Glue -- Available at HD?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> A few questions on your panels:
> 
> 
> 1) Noticed you used regular particle board vs. MDF -- why? Just because it's less expensive or what you had on hand? I don't think it's that much lighter.
> 
> 
> 2) Did you have any issues with the wood splitting when you brad-nailed the beveled edges down from the top of the board (as shown in the pic above)?
> 
> 
> 3) Did you glue and nail the lower frame (before applying the beveled edges)?
> 
> 
> 4) Any reason you went with 3" width on the lower frame vs. maybe 1.5"?
> 
> 
> 5) ProBond Glue -- Available at HD?



1) Particle Board is less prone to split with nails if trying to do what we did above. Particle Board is also less expensive, less messy (not a ton of dust like MDF when routering and cutting), and less hazardous (It has been said, MDF contains Formaldehyde in it, known to cause cancer when breathing in it's Dust).


Fibreboard/Particle Board is sheet material made from glued and pressed softwood dust or chips, is commonly used throughout the building construction industry. Fibreboard is strong and has a stable, smooth and scratch-resistant surface. Because fibreboard is made from waste produced during wood processing, it is an efficient use of forest resources. Conventional medium density fibreboard (MDF) contains urea-formaldehyde or phenol-formaldehyde, which off-gasses into interior air. The health impacts of formaldehyde has prompted many building designers to specify formaldehyde-free fibreboard where possible.


2) No problems with splitting, that's why we used particle board.


3) Every joint got Glued


4) We used 3" to prevent future Bowing and sagging of panels. I want all the lines to stay tight as possible for as long as possible. See GPowers Frames, those are a very good design as well. We did our frames this way to accommodate the 2" treatments better.


5) You can get Elmers Pro Bond Glue at Home Depot, that's where I got it from. We got 1 gallon and it lasted a long time. You can get Smaller portions of it as well. just make sure you have a Empty Ketchup bottle or something to apply it easily.


This stuff bonds like 2 part epoxy. We glued 2 pieces of wood together and let it dry over night. The next day we tried to break it apart and it would not break at the bond. However, the wood ended up breaking instead, Yes it's that strong. Much Stronger than Liquid Nails by far.


Ruben


----------



## Yes

Just went through all the pages in the thread and must say Sandman you have done some amazing work. Can't wait to see the finished room.


----------



## FusionRx

So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc??


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just went through all the pages in the thread and must say Sandman you have done some amazing work. Can't wait to see the finished room.



Thanks, That must of took you a few days to get through.

Welcome to the SandmanX Club.










Ruben


----------



## theirishgonzo

yes corectley glued joint of mdfb or partile bord is stronger than the surounding wood. when i made my sub i bonded 3 layers of mdfb togher. i rooled on the glew for a better bond and clamped.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc??



Unfortunately Not Yet. But I'm pretty Sure it will be the winner. And I'm pretty sure it will be 20x louder too. That quad makes allot of fan noise when its working.


Ruben


----------



## Seytan

I've a stupid question







How do you attach your panels on the wall ? I dont thing you glue them ?










One (maybe two) more stupid question










How did you fixed this wood framing ?











Is it just screwed in the dry wall and the ceiling ? the dry wall is just 1/2 " thick ... Is it solid enoug ? or do you screw through the dry wall in the wood framing behind ?


Are the front and back stages fixed to the floor ? If not, they don't move ?


Regards


----------



## bpape

Screw through the end plates horizontally into the wall studs. For the ceiling, you'll go up into the joists above.


The stage is so heavy there's no way it's moving. Ask Ruben how many lbs of sand are in it


----------



## MountainAsh

Very nice post Sandman. I have been following for many weeks. You discussed the 2" material you used behind the fabric. I was wondering if you had an acoustic engineer help you with use of treatments? I apologize if you addressed this and I don't remeber reading it.



Thanks again for the excellent post.










Dave


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MountainAsh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very nice post Sandman. I have been following for many weeks. You discussed the 2" material you used behind the fabric. I was wondering if you had an acoustic engineer help you with use of treatments? I apologize if you addressed this and I don't remeber reading it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for the excellent post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave



Thanks,


I had BPape from these forums plan out the treatments for my room.

He is big time into High End Audio and he was the perfect guy for me to work with. He has lots of experience with my type of Speakers as well.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Seytan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've a stupid question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you attach your panels on the wall ? I dont thing you glue them ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One (maybe two) more stupid question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How did you fixed this wood framing ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it just screwed in the dry wall and the ceiling ? the dry wall is just 1/2 " thick ... Is it solid enoug ? or do you screw through the dry wall in the wood framing behind ?
> 
> 
> Are the front and back stages fixed to the floor ? If not, they don't move ?
> 
> 
> Regards




>How do you attach your panels on the wall ? I dont thing you glue them ?
How did you fixed this wood framing ?


----------



## 2.35:1

How did you solve the problem with garage floor not being completly level when framing the walls?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How did you solve the problem with garage floor not being completly level when framing the walls?



It was pretty level already. The garage had tiled floors.


Ruben


----------



## 2.35:1

Ok what do you plan on putting over the tile?


You stated this: Conventional medium density fibreboard (MDF) contains urea-formaldehyde or phenol-formaldehyde, which off-gasses into interior air. The health impacts of formaldehyde has prompted many building designers to specify formaldehyde-free fibreboard where possible



I was thinking that using fiberglass or mineral fiber for acoustical tuning of the room could be







hazard to ones health as far as breathing it into your lungs? Even if you are using acoustial fabric to cover it, there are tiny holes for the material to escape through? What are you thoughts on this?


I am glad you decided to go 2.35:1 screen


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok what do you plan on putting over the tile?
> 
> 
> I was thinking that using fiberglass or mineral fiber for acoustical tuning of the room could be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hazard to ones health as far as breathing it into your lungs? Even if you are using acoustial fabric to cover it, there are tiny holes for the material to escape through? What are you thoughts on this?
> 
> 
> I am glad you decided to go 2.35:1 screen



Padding and Carpet over the Tile.


As far as Rigid Fiberglass Panels giving you cancer, If That was the case, there would be allot more people with cancer in this world due to HVAC Ducts/Trunks in homes being made out of Rigid Fiberglass. I don't think the EPA would approve the use of Rigid Fiberglass in HVAC if we were all going to die from it.


But Cutting up some MDF in a non ventilated room without a top notch respirator on could result In cancerous conditions.


----------



## 2.35:1

That makes sense on the fiberglass. Thanks for the quick response


----------



## bdtank

Sandman thank so much for sharing the buildout process, it has truly inspired me to take my theater room to the next level. The wife is not too excited, but that is pretty normal when it comes to my hairbrained ideas










Two quick questions that I don't think you have covered yet. How did you go about making the semi-circular speaker covers in your columns? Secondly-how are the covers attached?


----------



## larryep

Sandman,


Did you leave your garage door attached. One thing i noticed when cutting drywall in my garage was the wind can really make the garage door rattle. In other words do you hear the garage door when your in the well built theater?


Larry


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bdtank* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman thank so much for sharing the buildout process, it has truly inspired me to take my theater room to the next level. The wife is not too excited, but that is pretty normal when it comes to my hairbrained ideas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two quick questions that I don't think you have covered yet. How did you go about making the semi-circular speaker covers in your columns? Secondly-how are the covers attached?



Thank You for reading my thread I'm happy it has inspired you.


The Speaker covers are made out of cut up half rounds. Basically the section of the Half round column that got cut out got used for the speaker cover frame. Then will get wrapped with perforated metal and the covered with GoM fabric.


First we started with the scrap cut outs of the half rounds (Notice the pen lines on it, that's where it's getting cut)..











Once it was cut, it got sanded and painted black.











Then we wrapped it with GoM fabric











Trimmed it











Installed it











We will be adding a metal perforated grill under the fabric for more support.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *larryep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> Did you leave your garage door attached. One thing i noticed when cutting drywall in my garage was the wind can really make the garage door rattle. In other words do you hear the garage door when your in the well built theater?
> 
> 
> Larry



Yes we left it in Place. I tied all the garage door loose metal down with shimmies and screws. So now you can bang on the garage door from outside and it doesn't rattle. We wanted to keep the garage door in place so the house remains the same from the street view.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?



My Speakers have Built In Grills.


Front Mains:

Martin Logan Odyssey's











Center Channel:

Martin Logan Theater











Sides and Rears:

Martin Logan Scripts


----------



## Ktulu_1

Seems a shame to hide those behind columns.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Many people remove the speaker grills/cloth since they say that it colors their music. Have you tried that? Whats your take on that arguement?



Fusion, typically, the people that are forming that opinion are doing it based off of two channel listening and are total purists. For the home theater applications, it is more about looks than getting the N'th degree of perfection from the speakers.


I once worked with an audio fanatic that removed his grills and then did some critical listening and ended up taking some simple terry-cloth towels and cutting holes in the middle and attaching them to his speaker face, so that the tweeter and mid were open to the room, but the waves coming off the sides of the driver would get partially absorbed by the cloth. This helped get rid of the coloration in the sound by the edge of the cabinets as well.


Many HT purists would rather have the image as the center of attention and the sound is secondary, and in order to do this, the speakers must be hidden or at least not detracting from the image.


----------



## larryep

if memory serves me right don't the mains have a amp on them?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *larryep* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if memory serves me right don't the mains have a amp on them?



No Amp on the Mains. However they have 2 10" woofers as well on each speaker.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Many HT purists would rather have the image as the center of attention and the sound is secondary, and in order to do this, the speakers must be hidden or at least not detracting from the image.



Actually, as someone who is in training to be one of those audio freaks, I think not seeing the speakers has an advantage too. Since you don't specifically see the object emitting the sound, the brain has an easier time accepting the soundstage.


Additionally, if the room has any eq involved, I would expect this to negate the speakers being behind the fabric even further.


I'd be surprised if people who visit Reuben's theater wouldn't be equally impressed on both counts (audio and video).


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, as someone who is in training to be one of those audio freaks, I think not seeing the speakers has an advantage too. Since you don't specifically see the object emitting the sound, the brain has an easier time accepting the soundstage.
> 
> 
> Additionally, if the room has any eq involved, I would expect this to negate the speakers being behind the fabric even further.
> 
> 
> I'd be surprised if people who visit Reuben's theater wouldn't be equally impressed on both counts (audio and video).



What's real nice about Martin Logans, is that they are really transparent. So even if you do see them in the room, the sound never seems like it's coming from them. When you Listen to accoustical type music with these, it Sounds like the musicians are right there with you. It really blows my mind.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

WOW!!!!!! Nice speakers..... and price tag


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's real nice about Martin Logans, is that they are really transparent. So even if you do see them in the room, the sound never seems like it's coming from them. When you Listen to accoustical type music with these, it Sounds like the musicians are right there with you. It really blows my mind.
> 
> 
> Ruben



They really are a great sounding speaker. I have the luxery of being about 25 minutes from their factory and took a tour a few years ago. Really nice people. Their speaker was my second favorite out of all the speakers I auditioned. (and I listened to a lot)


Plus people freak out on how they work when they see them in action. That's always a hoot. ^_^


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They really are a great sounding speaker. I have the luxery of being about 25 minutes from their factory and took a tour a few years ago. Really nice people. Their speaker was my second favorite out of all the speakers I auditioned. (and I listened to a lot)
> 
> 
> Plus people freak out on how they work when they see them in action. That's always a hoot. ^_^



So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms)


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms)



Bose


























J/K


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what was your #1 Speaker Choice (Please don't Say Paradigms)



As it turns out, I didn't much care for the Paradigms I heard (I listened to the 40's 60's and 100's and never heard the newer line they put out). They seemed... brittle? Does that make sense? In all fairness to Paradigms, the room I heard them in was far from ideal, and the salesman was definately more comfortable pushing the Mishubishi TVs they had. They wouldn't let me do an in-home so that was that.


I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.

http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html 


It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As it turns out, I didn't much care for the Paradigms I heard (I listened to the 40's 60's and 100's and never heard the newer line they put out). They seemed... brittle? Does that make sense? In all fairness to Paradigms, the room I heard them in was far from ideal, and the salesman was definately more comfortable pushing the Mishubishi TVs they had. They wouldn't let me do an in-home so that was that.
> 
> 
> I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.
> 
> http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html
> 
> 
> It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^



Nice. My other Favorite Speakers I own are the B&W 802d's. The 802s got to be the most accurate speakers money can buy. We use them for Mastering Audio and Restoration. I was going to do my home theater with all B&W originally.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I see allot of people are doing Garage Theaters now. What's up with that?

Hopefully I didn't start that craze


----------



## radm1f

I am also contemplating about using 803Ds for our setup. The dealer though told me that he would not drive them with my Denon AVR 4806, he would only use a separate amp and processor. Also he said that they would be a waste on a surround setup, he would set them up for hi fidelity stereo. Whats your take? and were you going to use the 802Ds for surround?


Mehran


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radm1f* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am also contemplating about using 803Ds for our setup. The dealer though told me that he would not drive them with my Denon AVR 4806, he would only use a separate amp and processor. Also he said that they would be a waste on a surround setup, he would set them up for hi fidelity stereo. Whats your take? and were you going to use the 802Ds for surround?
> 
> 
> Mehran



Yeah, Using a Denon 4806 with B&W 802's is against the law in most countries










You Definitely need to use monoblocks to drive those correctly IMO. We use Bryston Amps to drive ours. That is pretty much industry standard in the worlds biggest Mastering facilities as well.


I was considering doing something like the HTMD1 for the Center 805s for Surrounds and the 802s for mains.


Ruben


----------



## radm1f

Thanks Ruben. That would have been one amazing system. So the fact that you're going with Martin Logans is it because they sound better?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radm1f* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ruben. That would have been one amazing system. So the fact that you're going with Martin Logans is it because they sound better?



I Just like The transparency of the logans better.

To me they are both top notch speaker systems either way.


Ruben


----------



## cnuwer

It's been said before but, Awesome, Awesome thread Sandman!


Thanks so much for sharing your GREAT HT!


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


So... the Martin Logans are going to be inside the pillars, right? Aren't the woofers behind the lower wood area?


Also, you are at 82K+ in views. I think we all will have to do the wave when you get to 100K !










Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I settled on these though, due in no small part to my trip to fellow AVSer Randybe's house for an extended audition.
> 
> http://www.salksound.com/HT1.html
> 
> 
> It didn't hurt that Randy's room is set up really well, but they have to be the most neautral sounding speaker I've ever heard. And they do precussion really well, which is a great way to win me over. ^_^



Chirpie, Jim Salk was posting pictures of his speakers on the Very High Quality DIY speakers anywhere? thread and WOW, he does some amazing work with veneers! Some amazing looking speakers. Those are definatly speakers you don't want to hide!










bubinga veneer










detail showing baffles and veneers.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Wave smave. I say at 100K we all jump in our cars and pay a visit!


----------



## SVonhof

Long drive from Central Cali.


----------



## bdtank

Sandman-thanks for posting the column assembly pictures-greatly appreciate it.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> So... the Martin Logans are going to be inside the pillars, right? Aren't the woofers behind the lower wood area?
> 
> 
> Also, you are at 82K+ in views. I think we all will have to do the wave when you get to 100K !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



The whole Speaker is in the Open section of the column. The Logan surrounds are like 44" Tall and our column openings are 46" tall.


83k + views? I got more views than the "Acoustical Treatments Master Thread" which is a Sticky on top? Watch Out "What is the best 5 minutes to show when showing off your Home Theater?" thread Here I Come !!!!










"Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away.










The wave sounds good.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wave smave. I say at 100K we all jump in our cars and pay a visit!



I think you are probable 1/2 the distance that I am


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 83k + views? I got more views than the "Acoustical Treatments Master Thread" which is a Sticky on top? Watch Out "What is the best 5 minutes to show when showing off your Home Theater?" thread Here I Come !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Maybe cause of all of the "bumps" everyone keeps giving you. You are pretty sticky too











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away.



Probably taking up too much bandwidth with all of your reply messages in this thread


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So did you ever get a chance to compare the Quad G5 output of the HD trailers etc??



Did the Test Last Night.

The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did the Test Last Night.
> 
> The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Posted at 3:16AM? Man, how much sleep do you live on?!?!?!?!? Like 10 minutes per day??


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Sandmans Home Theater Construction Begins!" is going to probably be the most viewed thread in this forum, and AVS took my Avatar away.



Any reason why they did it? Maybe they figured the "X" stood for something? The Avatars on here are the mildest I have seen of any forum and that was nothing bad.


----------



## chinadog

The rules say the following (from the "Edit Avatar" section under User CP):

_Custom Avatar

The purpose of Avatars on this board is so that people can put a face to who they are conversing with. It also helps to identify each other when we get together for gatherings. You don't have to use an Avatar if you do not wish to, but if you do, you MUST use a recent photo of yourself, a headshot showing your face. It should be a recognizable likeness of you and your face should not be obscured. It should be clear enough for people to see. If you have a custom avatar and want to keep it as it is, leave the fields below as they are._


Not sure I agree, but I've been in other forums that people just go rampant with all sorts of crap.


Bud


----------



## ebr

Wow - and all this time I didn't believe that Terry WAS Groucho's long lost twin...


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did the Test Last Night.
> 
> The Quad uses 63% of its CPU to playback 2 1080p videos. Its Probably about the Same as the machine I made.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Cool. (Or maybe not... how hard did the fans rev up?)


It'll be fun to see what comes out for the towers in the future with the new processors. I can't wait until all the apps get switched over to universal binary. Getting addicted to technology is a slippery slope. ^_^


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool. (Or maybe not... how hard did the fans rev up?)
> 
> 
> It'll be fun to see what comes out for the towers in the future with the new processors. I can't wait until all the apps get switched over to universal binary. Getting addicted to technology is a slippery slope. ^_^



Hey Chirpie, I'm gonna need some new Renders now. Is it Possible to make a Render of my room now with all the new Changes? I also want to do it with a 2.35.1 screen. A few pages back I have the panel dimensions I posted for ebr.


Let Me Know


Ruben


----------



## 2.35:1

Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1

GOOD JOB SANDMANX!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1
> 
> GOOD JOB SANDMANX!



I didn't realize it took guts to do that.

In the early stages, I just never knew if that was a good option.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Chirpie, I'm gonna need some new Renders now. Is it Possible to make a Render of my room now with all the new Changes? I also want to do it with a 2.35.1 screen. A few pages back I have the panel dimensions I posted for ebr.
> 
> 
> Let Me Know
> 
> 
> Ruben



I'll e-mail ya so as not to clutter up the thread.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *2.35:1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like sandmanx has the guts to go true home theater 2.35:1
> 
> GOOD JOB SANDMANX!




Hey, most of my favorite movies are 1-1:85 or 1-1:66 so don't hate us because we're different! ^_~


----------



## SmX

Some updates:


For the theater door on the inside we are going to make it as if there is no door by continuing the panels, treatments and mouldings over it so it matches the opposite wall. So otherwords, a hidden door.


For the past few days we were trying to figure out a solution to have the 2" deep mouldings on the door and still be able to open it without having a big gap in the mouldings or have them jam up with each other when the door is opened too much.


But we found a solution... Its better to Show you than try to explain...











































































Now that the columns are round, we needed to find a way to mount the Lutron Grafik Eye in the Column by the entrance. It was a little easier before with Square columns. Yes it would of been easir to cut a hole in the dry wall and let all the sound go out it, but I'm not trying to do that. So this is what we came up with to solve that problem...




















What do you guys think?


----------



## SmX

Also, I forget to mention, one of the Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxes came in today. I'm gonna do some quality comparisons between it and the HTPC before I buy another 1 or 2 of them.











Ruben


----------



## SmX

I Need your opinions on How to Set up my Rack.


The Following Components are all Rack Mountable and I want to see what you guys think as far as set up from top to bottom should be...












2 or 3 of these...


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Is your middle name "creativity"?


Ronnie


----------



## mcascio

Ruben,


I would say the HTPC should be at eye level because of the Touch Screen.

Next, I would say the DVD Changer would also be nice just below the touch screen. You'll notice some very small numbers in the carousel so putting too high may make it difficult to load. If you plan to fill it up right away, this would be less of an issue since DVDLobby will have total control over it. Any of the other devices that don't require interaction with or are serially controlled can be lower or higher.


Hope that helps.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, for equipment placement, you gotta think about the function and the amount of times you will need to do something with each peice of equipment. Obviously, you won't have to load the DVD Jukeboxes very frequently once they are loaded, but just to load them would be a pain if you have to sit on the floor, so I would say put the amps and power centers at the bottom and maybe top as well and put the HTPC and DVD players in the middle, where accessability are at a premium.


As for your door solution, you are very good. That proves that you have some ingenuity and your thought processes run deep.







Just make sure you have some extra rubber bands handy for when those break!


----------



## SVonhof

Mario, you posted as I was typing. Same ideas for component placement though.


----------



## jmorris644

I agree with Mario and SCott but I would also make sure tht you spread the heat aroung and ensure there is enough air space between them. I have fried power transistors before.










Joe


----------



## mmmkam

Ruben,


You never fail to amaze. Fantastic door solution.


For the GE mount did you give any thought to mounting that bracket recessed in the column in order to maintain the outside round perimeter. That way you could hide it with a small veneered plug or door for when you wanted manual access to it or put a curved piece of glass over it to still have a smooth outside curve.


Beautiful work all around!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is your middle name "creativity"?
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Yep, It's the same as yours Ronnie










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I would say the HTPC should be at eye level because of the Touch Screen.
> 
> Next, I would say the DVD Changer would also be nice just below the touch screen. You'll notice some very small numbers in the carousel so putting too high may make it difficult to load. If you plan to fill it up right away, this would be less of an issue since DVDLobby will have total control over it. Any of the other devices that don't require interaction with or are serially controlled can be lower or higher.
> 
> 
> Hope that helps.



Hi Mario,


Yes, I figured to put all the Heavy Stuff at the Bottom, but I was just worried about heat Rising. Even though that closet will have an HVAC Supply and Return I wasn't too sure about heat distribution.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, for equipment placement, you gotta think about the function and the amount of times you will need to do something with each peice of equipment. Obviously, you won't have to load the DVD Jukeboxes very frequently once they are loaded, but just to load them would be a pain if you have to sit on the floor, so I would say put the amps and power centers at the bottom and maybe top as well and put the HTPC and DVD players in the middle, where accessability are at a premium.
> 
> 
> As for your door solution, you are very good. That proves that you have some ingenuity and your thought processes run deep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just make sure you have some extra rubber bands handy for when those break!



Thanks for your input and compliments. I may put a Power Center up top and the Rest of the Heavy Stuff below with All the most functioning pieces in the middle. I figured once the jukeboxes get Loaded, they will stay loaded. I have 1k dvds to load and I finally got them all in DVD Lobby's Server. Now to name the Slots for the Jukebox










As far as rubberbands, that's all I had laying around the house, we figured, get it working first, then worry about heavier rubber bands later.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with Mario and SCott but I would also make sure tht you spread the heat aroung and ensure there is enough air space between them. I have fried power transistors before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Yeah, I have some 2 rack space grills I can throw In between the Amps and AVR.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> You never fail to amaze. Fantastic door solution.
> 
> 
> For the GE mount did you give any thought to mounting that bracket recessed in the column in order to maintain the outside round perimeter. That way you could hide it with a small veneered plug or door for when you wanted manual access to it or put a curved piece of glass over it to still have a smooth outside curve.
> 
> 
> Beautiful work all around!!



Thanks!


We tried to recess it in the column first and It looked really wierd. Even if it gets a cover on it, you don't want to be walking in a dark room trying to open a hidden column door and reach in and hope you hit the right button all the time. So this was the best solution.


This is also on a column that will not be in direct view when watching a movie. The only other alternative was to put a extension controller out side the theater and hide the grafik eye. It is a 6 Zone GE and will have an IR Feeder attached to it.


Another Solution would be to mount it sideways (Tall) on the square side of the column so it is right next to the door when you walk in.


I am open to any Other ideas before I make the Final Cuts into the columns, so everyone please chime in.


----------



## ebr

I am assuming that you will have full control of the GE via MainLobby and/or some other really cool multi-function remote control.


Given that, I say hide the GE and install a simple switch at the door. Program the switch to go to the standard "file in" scene on the GE and then handle all other lighting control via your remote.


You can install the GE inside the column or wherever that you can get access to it for programming and then forget about it.


----------



## sleeks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I forget to mention, one of the Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxes came in today. I'm gonna do some quality comparisons between it and the HTPC before I buy another 1 or 2 of them.
> 
> Ruben



Very interested to hear your results of the comparisons.


The idea of the jukebox is so nice and being able to control it with DVD Lobby is a nice feature.


----------



## theirishgonzo

if you can have the door swing out you will not have to do all this. but it might be code to swing in.


----------



## darkman2003

That's it!!!


I'm packing my bagges and moving to Boca Raton, Florida to work for Sandman .


What you say Sandman can i be your Apprentice ??? Then i can buy all those cool


toys you have . I really like that Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxe .I have learn


so much by reading this thread keep up the outstanding job!!!!.


We can be the Dynamic Duo SANDMAN & DARKMAN!!! Notice you got top billing LOL


DARKMAN


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkman2003* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's it!!!
> 
> 
> I'm packing my bagges and moving to Boca Raton, Florida to work for Sandman .
> 
> 
> What you say Sandman can i be your Apprentice ??? Then i can buy all those cool
> 
> 
> toys you have . I really like that Sony 777es 400 Disk DVD Jukeboxe .I have learn
> 
> 
> so much by reading this thread keep up the outstanding job!!!!.
> 
> 
> We can be the Dynamic Dual SANDMAN & DARKMAN!!! Notice you got top billing LOL
> 
> 
> DARKMAN



ROFLMAO!!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theirishgonzo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if you can have the door swing out you will not have to do all this. but it might be code to swing in.




What Door? The Column or The Theater?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am assuming that you will have full control of the GE via MainLobby and/or some other really cool multi-function remote control.
> 
> 
> Given that, I say hide the GE and install a simple switch at the door. Program the switch to go to the standard "file in" scene on the GE and then handle all other lighting control via your remote.
> 
> 
> You can install the GE inside the column or wherever that you can get access to it for programming and then forget about it.



This is what I would ultimately like to Do. I can Hide it inside the Column at eye level to program and forget. I was just worried about a switch out side.


Like you said, I have hopes to have a remote that can handle the rest. I will be integrading this all with Main Lobby.


Can you post a compatible Switch for this GE? I have the LUTRON GRAFIK EYE GRX-3106-A.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sleeks* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very interested to hear your results of the comparisons.
> 
> 
> The idea of the jukebox is so nice and being able to control it with DVD Lobby is a nice feature.



I'm setting it up for the tests now.


Ruben


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you post a compatible Switch for this GE? I have the LUTRON GRAFIK EYE GRX-3106-A.



Here is Lutron's SeeTouch keypad










Here is an online source:
http://www.hankselectric.com/productCat56852.ctlg


----------



## theirishgonzo

the door to the theater with it swinging in you have to make that trim piece so you dont get gaps but if you swing the door out you can have a lot less gaps. all hidden doors have this problem. also if you move the door farther in to the room.


----------



## ronnie_jackson

How much do you guys want to bet that the next update we see will be the grafik eye recessed into the column, with this cool automatic sliding door that moves up or revolves around into the column as you approach it with your hand. Sorta like the star trek doors.


I can see it now......


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much do you guys want to bet that the next update we see will be the grafik eye recessed into the column, with this cool automatic sliding door that moves up or revolves around into the column as you approach it with your hand. Sorta like the star trek doors.
> 
> 
> I can see it now......




Or like the glass doors on the Bang & Olfsen Beosound.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is Lutron's SeeTouch keypad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an online source:
> http://www.hankselectric.com/productCat56852.ctlg



Thanks Scott. That should work just fine then.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theirishgonzo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the door to the theater with it swinging in you have to make that trim piece so you dont get gaps but if you swing the door out you can have a lot less gaps. all hidden doors have this problem. also if you move the door farther in to the room.



Thanks for your Ideas,


Oh, ok I got you. Well the way my entrance is set up, the door can only swing into the theater. I suppose, I could of found some heavy duty hinges to support the door and open like a cabinet door. If I would of moved the Door further in the room, the treatments and panels would of been sticking out too much.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much do you guys want to bet that the next update we see will be the grafik eye recessed into the column, with this cool automatic sliding door that moves up or revolves around into the column as you approach it with your hand. Sorta like the star trek doors.
> 
> 
> I can see it now......



No Thanks







I just want to get this done.


Ruben


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben,


I have both the Monster Power AVS 2000 (68 lbs) and HTPS 7000 (44 lbs) and they don't put off much heat or require ventilation so typically they are placed up top or down at the bottom. The only time you will need to use the buttons is if they are tripped or you have a power outage. My A/V receiver/amplifier puts off the most heat. Next would be my HDTV Satellite receiver. I think you should balance both the weight, heat output, and ventialtion requirements along with the usage requirments. I assume your shelves can handle all of the weight. That was my biggest problem...finding a rack to support everything.


I agree that your display and keyboard should be at the appropriate ergonomic height. I'm not sure if that tells you anything new, but I thought I would offer my input. Great Job. I have been following you from the beginning (well, as soon as swithey told me about you lol).


----------



## Rob_McArthur

Or you could just mount your GE on the outside of the room near the doorway as I did. I didn't want it cluttering up my room or making any wall penetrations so I removed it from the room completely. Everything in my room will be automated and I can turn on the lights from my remote if the need arises. I only need to turn the lights on as I head into the room and this way they are on when I open the door. Just my 2 cents.


I am sure any way you do it will look great, If you are putting it on the column I vote for recess with a cover.


Rob


----------



## SmX

I got Side tracked watching the DIY home Theater Programs that were on Tonight on the DIY channel.


After That, I hooked up the Sony DVD Jukebox and the HTPC to the projector. Ran some quick comparisons. With nothing calibrated, the HTPC is slightly better. The HTPC Displayed Better colors/contrast and a bit of a Sharper picture. That may be mostly due to the FFDShow & dScaler Settings. As far as a video quality between the Component and DVI cable, the difference wasn't really that noticeable to make a fuss. I haven't read yet, but If the DVD jukebox can be calibrated within it like my Pioneer 59av, then it may be pretty damn close to the HTPC.


So to sum it up, The Sony Jukebox looks good enough for me to buy another 1 or 2 to store and playback my 1k DVDs. I will continue to rip all future dvds and any special Superbit encoded DVDs to the HTPC as well.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Now just One of my biggest confusions is with this new 2.35.1 screen size. I really loved the Size of the 16:9 I had before when watching HD and playing xBox 360. Now if I go with the narrowness of 2.35.1 my 16:9 is going to be much smaller.


So what does one do at that point? Go Wider to make up the Difference on the 16:9 height I like now? If I do that, I definitley need to do perforated.


If I do perforated, Da-Lite is out of the Question and the Next thing I would have to consider would be Screen Research's ClearPix2 which dulled the picture a bit.


Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## mmmkam

Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I was going to suggest a 4 way masking system, but those suckers get expensive fast! If you were to do that, then stick with a solid screen so that the perferations don't go into the cost. You don't want your $1300 non-perf screen going to $6k or more for perfs and masking! Good luck on figuring it out. If you do watch much HDTV, I would stick with something that can handle the 16:9 and maybe get a horizontal masking system to mask for the 2.35:1 and others. Don't worry about 4:3 modes because who wants to watch 4:3 tv!


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now just One of my biggest confusions is with this new 2.35.1 screen size. I really loved the Size of the 16:9 I had before when watching HD and playing xBox 360. Now if I go with the narrowness of 2.35.1 my 16:9 is going to be much smaller.



It doesn't seem to me that it makes much sense to go to a 2.35:1 screen unless you go W-I-D-E and keep the same height as you would have for your 16:9 screen. Room width becomes the limiting factor. No matter what screen size you end up with, I think you have to figure out a masking solution. I like mmmkam's suggestion... " Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!"


----------



## KWhite

Non perf 16:9 with top/bottom masking for 1.85 and 2.35 images.


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


On the bondo you used to smooth things out before applying the veneer...


I've only seen stuff like that at Auto Parts stores in the past (but never payed much attention anywhere else). Where did you get yours? Is there a particular kind I should get? Just wanted to know before I went looking all over for it.


Steve


----------



## jrfuda

Ruben, that is a remarkable solution for the hiding of the door.


Do you plan on replacing the leastic bands with springs?


Also, have you considered the sliding of the "hider" causing scratches/wear on the other molding over time? I was thinking that you may be able to get some teflon material (like the material they sell for mouse feet) and back the "hider" with it, thereby reducing the friction and prolonging the time it takes to cause any signs of wear on the molding, or do you already have another solution in mind?


You're really going to enjoy your 777.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> On the bondo you used to smooth things out before applying the veneer...
> 
> 
> I've only seen stuff like that at Auto Parts stores in the past (but never payed much attention anywhere else). Where did you get yours? Is there a particular kind I should get? Just wanted to know before I went looking all over for it.
> 
> 
> Steve



It's just regular auto bondo you buy at an auto parts store. It was like $25 for 1 gallon, it comes with a tube of the second part (It's 2 Part).


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just get a screen that is as wide and as tall as you can possible fit then entertain us with another 900 posts in this thread as you embark on building the ultimate DIY screen masking system!!!



You Got some Serious Jokes, huh?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I was going to suggest a 4 way masking system, but those suckers get expensive fast! If you were to do that, then stick with a solid screen so that the perferations don't go into the cost. You don't want your $1300 non-perf screen going to $6k or more for perfs and masking! Good luck on figuring it out. If you do watch much HDTV, I would stick with something that can handle the 16:9 and maybe get a horizontal masking system to mask for the 2.35:1 and others. Don't worry about 4:3 modes because who wants to watch 4:3 tv!



Thanks Scott,


Yeah, I definitly can rig together an auto Masking system.

I will read Up in those forums and get ideas together. I think I will keep it constant height though and just Mask the sides.


4:3 YuK!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, that is a remarkable solution for the hiding of the door.
> 
> 
> Do you plan on replacing the leastic bands with springs?
> 
> 
> Also, have you considered the sliding of the "hider" causing scratches/wear on the other molding over time? I was thinking that you may be able to get some teflon material (like the material they sell for mouse feet) and back the "hider" with it, thereby reducing the friction and prolonging the time it takes to cause any signs of wear on the molding, or do you already have another solution in mind?
> 
> 
> You're really going to enjoy your 777.



I will just probably use a heavier rubber band solution for longevity. We don't have any type of pressure on that piece, the rubber bands only keep it from flapping open.


We will use a type of teflon or equivilent for the slider as well. But like I said, there is barely any pressure on that flap.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It doesn't seem to me that it makes much sense to go to a 2.35:1 screen unless you go W-I-D-E and keep the same height as you would have for your 16:9 screen. Room width becomes the limiting factor. No matter what screen size you end up with, I think you have to figure out a masking solution.



Other than the fact that he gets full resolution on 2.35:1 movies which if I am not mistaken is around 30% more resolution than projecting black bars, he has a HTPC, no need for a scaler. Spielberg and comedys are about the only flicks where a 16 x 9 screen would be to his benefit and of course HDTV but since this is a "Home Theater" he will probably be showing movies the majority of the time and full resolution 2.35:1 and an extra foot to place his center speaker sounds like the best option.


Then if he really wants to mess around with a masking system he only has to mask the sides and if he goes with automatic curtains and has a decent projector that has good blacks he can dump the masking all together when watching Saving Private Ryan or Sin City.


The impact a 2.35:1 screen @ full resolution as compared to a 16 x 9 is huge, and in this theater it would be a shame to go any other route


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Other than the fact that he gets full resolution on 2.35:1 movies which if I am not mistaken is around 30% more resolution than projecting black bars, he has a HTPC, no need for a scaler. Spielberg and comedys are about the only flicks where a 16 x 9 screen would be to his benefit and of course HDTV but since this is a "Home Theater" he will probably be showing movies the majority of the time and full resolution 2.35:1 and an extra foot to place his center speaker sounds like the best option.
> 
> 
> Then if he really wants to mess around with a masking system he only has to mask the sides and if he goes with automatic curtains and has a decent projector that has good blacks he can dump the masking all together when watching Saving Private Ryan or Sin City.
> 
> 
> The impact a 2.35:1 screen @ full resolution as compared to a 16 x 9 is huge, and in this theater it would be a shame to go any other route



Thanks Mark. The projector we have is the Optoma H-79.


I was trying to get a bigger screen sample from Screen Research Since their offices are around the corner from me, but they have nothing bigger for samples.

However, they share offices with Accoustic Innovations and The Showroom there uses a ClearPix 2 screen. The have a couple Digital PJs there to sample on.


So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jrfuda* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're really going to enjoy your 777.



I've seen a lot of people say this. I have a Pioneer Elite DVF-07 (301 disk changer). Had it since I built my first room (almost 6 years now). Is the Sony a lot better in some way...?


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Mark. The projector we have is the Optoma H-79.
> 
> 
> I was trying to get a bigger screen sample from Screen Research Since their offices are around the corner from me, but they have nothing bigger for samples.
> 
> However, they share offices with Accoustic Innovations and The Showroom there uses a ClearPix 2 screen. The have a couple Digital PJs there to sample on.
> 
> 
> So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



When we were pricing screens at 14' wide the Stewart I got from AVS was less than half the price of the Clearpix, From all of our testing with different materials the fabric screens were considerably dim ( Is it 10 or 20% light passthrough, I cant remember) but supposedly they improve blacks, we didnt need improvements in blacks so this was a mute point for us . I dont think running the bulb in economy mode is an option either but someone else help him here. Bulbs are expensive and dont last very long.


My Audio Guru had no choice but to go with a perf screen and got every available screen material and ended up making his own screen out of Danzian fabric if I recall the correct name since he is much more into audio than video and it measured nearly as good or as good as the Clearpix if I recall correctly read this its his results and he is very into his audio http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...c.php?p=183562 

this is his results and he tested EVERY option there was and actually like the picture on the Danzian the most If i recall but did admit all were dull compared to traditional non perf screens.


Vutec is another option, call Jason or Alan @ AVS and ask them about feedback they have received


I must say that the Stewart screen we received was inferior to none in its packaging, durability and absolute stunning picture which we wanted more than anything and since I built my own speakers we will tweak the crossovers as needed to achieve what we need when the room is complete. As it is now the voices come out of the mouths of the actors on the screen but is sometimes un intelligeble but we think this is the fact that the room is still horrible with no treatments.


The center speakers center is 4.25' down from the center of the screen http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=3&pp=30 one bad thing about a non perf screen in our situation is that the subwoofer shakes the screen material but thats alot of vinyl suspended on the frame, I would imagine this would be reduced considerably with a fabric woven screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When we were pricing screens at 14' wide the Stewart I got from AVS was less than half the price of the Clearpix, From all of our testing with different materials the fabric screens were considerably dim ( Is it 10 or 20% light passthrough, I cant remember) but supposedly they improve blacks, we didnt need improvements in blacks so this was a mute point for us . I dont think running the bulb in economy mode is an option either but someone else help him here. Bulbs are expensive and dont last very long.
> 
> 
> My Audio Guru had no choice but to go with a perf screen and got every available screen material and ended up making his own screen out of Danzian fabric if I recall the correct name since he is much more into audio than video and it measured nearly as good or as good as the Clearpix if I recall correctly read this its his results and he is very into his audio http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/v...c.php?p=183562
> 
> this is his results and he tested EVERY option there was and actually like the picture on the Danzian the most If i recall but did admit all were dull compared to traditional non perf screens.
> 
> 
> Vutec is another option, call Jason or Alan @ AVS and ask them about feedback they have received
> 
> 
> I must say that the Stewart screen we received was inferior to none in its packaging, durability and absolute stunning picture which we wanted more than anything and since I built my own speakers we will tweak the crossovers as needed to achieve what we need when the room is complete. As it is now the voices come out of the mouths of the actors on the screen but is sometimes un intelligeble but we think this is the fact that the room is still horrible with no treatments.
> 
> 
> The center speakers center is 4.25' down from the center of the screen http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=3&pp=30 one bad thing about a non perf screen in our situation is that the subwoofer shakes the screen material but thats alot of vinyl suspended on the frame, I would imagine this would be reduced considerably with a fabric woven screen.



Awesome Post Mark. I was waiting for someone to post some info like this here.


I can't believe your guy thought the Dazian Fabric was was good. I got a Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth Sample and it completely Sucked. I was thinking maybe DLP technology doesn't display well on it.


I just called VuTec to pick up some Samples, they are not to far from us.

I will see how they test out.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I can't believe your guy thought the Dazian Fabric was was good. I got a Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth Sample and it completely Sucked. I was thinking maybe DLP technology doesn't display well on it.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Remember , hes an audio guy. All he cares about is sound. He was not really more or less impressed with any of the products he tested in a visual sense. He was impressed with saving money. The interesting part is the complexity of the testing he did on the sound qualitys. This may help you and it may not but his conclusions are very interesting on speaker placement and such with all the different cloths


----------



## SmX

We just came back from VuTec with the Screen Samples. They have allot of different type of perforated materials and we got 8.5" x 11" samples of all of them. I also went to the Fabric shops and picked up some Different Audio Transparent materials to sample with for screens.


It should be a very interesting Night










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well we started getting the treatments and panels up on the door today. The reason why I didnt do a regular Wood door was because one of my front reflection points lands on the Door. So the door needed to be treated. So with that being, we decided to make a hidden door system on that wall. There will be no door knob inside the theater, It will be a push button release in the moulding.











The panels are still not adjusted properly in this shot. We just wanted to test this Idea. It seems to be working great.




















This how the paneles were made.

Were using some bands to bunch the fabric behind the panel better between the 2 panels when the door is open.


----------



## SmX

I checked out all the Samples I got today with one guy that has really good trained eyes. From what I learned, is, that they all look pretty good when you see them by themself. I bought some 60" x 140" Accoustically transparent Fabric and hung it up in the theater and I was blown away. The Image and Colors looked amazing by itself full size on a $30 piece of Fabric. But when you A & B samples there is always one that is better than the other for one reason or another.


So After that, I mounted the Projector in the theater and hung some fabric. The Widest picture I can get with the Distance and Projector I'm working with is 122" which is the width of the Da-Lite Screen I have Now (Now that was some right on pre Calculations).


Is there any Special atachment lens one can use to get a wider picture or larger picture?


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Does Anyone know about this?


SONY DVP-CX995V


It's a Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukebox with an HDMI Output.

Selectable 480p/720p/1080i output via HDMI digital interface

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NxnNG0r...sp?i=158CX995V


----------



## mcascio

Ruben,


Unfortunately Sony dropped the ball and didn't put a serial port on the device.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Unfortunately Sony dropped the ball and didn't put a serial port on the device.



Hey, Your up pretty Late









Yeah I just ran into that Sony and figured I'd ask. Thanks for chiming in.


Ruben


----------



## mcascio

Best time to actually get work done Ruben.










Looking forward to the AVSForum movie night in your theater. I'll bring the popcorn.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Best time to actually get work done Ruben.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Sounds like my Philosophy as well.










Ruben


----------



## SmX

I posted this in the Screen section, so I figured I would share iwith you guys in my thread as well...



I recently decided to Build my own screen after going through a Moire problem with my DLP Projector and my Da-Lite Hih Contrast Cinema Perf Screen.


I've gotten Perforated screen samples From Dazian, Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research and more to name a few.


I pretty much like the VuTec Vinyl open Weave Screen Material as far as picture reproduction goes. I know some of you guys here are not to big into the picture quality, but I am. I am also big time into the Sound quality too. Due to the nature of the business I am in, I study Video and Audio quality on a daily basis and know what I am looking for in a screen material.


First off, I tried the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth on my Optoma H-79 DLP Projector and it looked plain terrible to me. The image clearity degraded greatly by dulling, the colors got washed out, the Blacks sucked, Contrast sucked, the colors were bleeding too much on the screen as well. I also tried adding a black back to the sample and it just brought the contrast up better.


So I tried the Screen Research CP2 Material next. This was a big improvment over the Dazian but it still seemed to dull the quality of the Picture.


So today I got Screen Samples from VuTec and the woven Samples from VuTec were the best I saw so far. So I did some further research online and found the same Vinyl open Weave material VuTec uses but at around $12 a yard and comes in 62 - 72" widths by whatever Lengths.


I am ordering a bunch of different whit and grey open weaves to Sample. If i can find the right one, maybe it will cost me $75 to make the screen opposed to buying a Screen Research screen at $3k - $4k


Ruben


----------



## sk8conz

I see you used industrial velcro to hang the wall panels. I have seen several other people mention it in the forums, but having never seen or used it I am wondering :-


How strong is it ? How heavy are the panels you're hanging ? Does it stick forever ? or is it likely to come loose in say 12-18 months ?



2) Going back quite a few pages now







but could you tell me how wide your soffit was, and how wide and tall the veneered edge piece on the soffit was ?


Thanks


Darrin


----------



## SmX

The Velcro is incredibly Strong. It's funny you asked, because today we were doing some tests with it while something was drying. There is no way in the world that those panels will ever come off the wall at their on will. It takes allot of strength to get a panel off the wall. The Panels I'm putting up weigh 15 lbs. or so.


Soffits were 21" wide and Light tray was 5" tall.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Popped the PJ up to test the ratios to get started on the Screen Wall this weekend (Hopefully)











*Here is a 2.35.1 ratio. This is at 122" wide x 53" Tall. The screen basically goes from the front edge of the left soffit to the front edge of the Right Soffit. I mocked up the pictures below to scale to show you the Ratios with the room size... The screen wont be that high, I just had to staple the fabric up fast witout building a frame.


2.35:1 (122" x 53")*










*16:9 Maintaining the constant height of 53" above..*










*16:9 in Red and 2.35:1 in Black 53" Height*










*Here is my other 16:9 Option I could do at 122" x 70" then Mask off the top and bottom for the 2.35:1 films...*










*Here is a screen Shot on a $40 piece of fabric.*











What do you guys think I should go with?


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Give it up -- where did you get the $40 fabric that kicks CCCs butt...??


On the size - given everything else you've done, you should probably go for the constant height 2.35:1. It will cost more (need a lens) but not that much relative to everything else you've done.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any Special atachment lens one can use to get a wider picture or larger picture?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Theres an anamorphic lens which you would want if you were going constant height anyway. It stretchs the picture horizontilly ( I think some stretch vertical as well) then you use the TheaterTek Aspect Ratio settings to adjust the picture to fit the screen.


We also have to use a scaler when using DirecTv since you cant run an HDTivo into Media Center


----------



## KWhite

What are you going to watch the most? Personnally I would go for the largest 16:9 image and mask vertically for 1.85 and 2.35. Easier masking system to make as well.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think I should go with?
> 
> 
> Ruben



That would be decided with ease as soon as you figure out what it is that will be projected the most and/or If you want black bars when watching 2.35:1 robbing you of 33% of your resolution. If you watch alot of TV , hardly any movies go 16 x 9 , If your going to watch alot of movies and little TV then the choice is obvious.


Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution


or


Do you want movies big and HDTV considerably smaller with no loss of resolution


If your not having the screen covered by curtains than 2.35:1 would be a must for the visual impact of walking into an actual theater, to me 16 x 9 just looks to close to a TV screen. Once we hung the screen we really tossed the idea of no curtains around for several days just because of the impact of the Stewart Screen when you walk into the room, it is the whitest white I have ever seen and with proper lighting it really drops your jaw when walking into the room.


take those pics you made where you masked off the screen sizes and fill them with white or crop a favorite movie and do it sort of like this











As far as using cloth as a screen, I would SERIOUSLY reconsider a gain screen, when we were waiting for the screen we went out and bought the whitest white paints we could find and heres the image











We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen











I am just wondering what fabric , vinyl coated or not is going to give you the best picture possible and I just cant see it. Everything we saw was not worth moving the center speaker down right below the screen but again I have external crossovers and tweek the sound any way we choose.


Good luck , my vote is the biggest 2.35:1 you can go for and not see screendoor ( which is probably 1.25 screen width back, not familiar with your PJ so I dont know for sure) and the center speaker below, do audio testing right now and see if you can tell the difference using your fabric. put it behind, then move it below. We did all this before the PJ and screen ever showed up. In my opinion it would be a major shame to spend the time making such a beautiful room to shock and awe everyone that comes in and then turn the lights off and have the next 2 hours look half as good as it could.


Let me know when youve read this and I will edit out all my pics as to not clutter up your wonderful thread


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are you going to watch the most? Personnally I would go for the largest 16:9 image and mask vertically for 1.85 and 2.35. Easier masking system to make as well.



I am curious as to why vertical masking is easier to do than horizontal?


----------



## Test_Engineer

To me it seems that the 16:9 "might" be too big. I'm sure you have done the renders and drawings, but I wonder if it is possible to just do a quick mock-up in your theater since you haver the chairs available for exact measurements to see if the image of the large height of the 16:9 is not cut out for the second row(can't see the bottom of the image when seated). It would be a shame to sacrifice second row viewing for larger 16:9.


On the other hand, is the very wide screen of the 2.35:1 just "too wide" for comfortable viewing. I know it is better to be immersed in the movie, but I hate it when I get stuck too close to the screen and have to "look around" to take in the entire image.


I think I like the idea of the largest 2.35:1 ratio screen and mask for 16:9! It would be so much easier to have 2 black curtains to pull out from the sides to form a mask for 16:9. Long horizontal masks for a 16:9 screen seems like it would be much more complex and difficult.


I guess in the end you have to ask yourself: "Are GREAT movies(or your primary content) produced more often in 2.35:1 or 16:9." I don't know the answer to that, as I have not done any research on that, but I'm sure you know the answer due to your profession! I think this question should drive your ultimate decision.



BTW, I totally agree on your philosophy of getting more work done late at night. My wife goes to bed at about 10:30, and I get so much done between 10:30 and 1AM! My mother-in-law always says it has something to do with what time of day you were born. If you were born in the morning you will be a "morning person".....for me, that theory works, I was born about 8PM, and I am definitely a 'night owl".


----------



## bmackrell

Sandman,


What are your plans for finshing around your projector mount?


billmac


----------



## artimp

you said something a few threads back about I think the DVD player and possibly the sony jukebox hooked up looking fairly close to the htpc as far as picture quality-- what components are you using? I can't do the HTPC right now so with what you tested what would you have suggested? Your work is TRULY AMAZING!


----------



## SVonhof

Mark P, please don't edit out the pics. It doesn't clutter up the thread, especially the ones with the paint/screen comparisons, that is unreal. I have talked to lots of people who just want to use a painted board or project onto the wall and if that is a true comparison, that will show everyone what a good screen will do for the image.


BTW, I have subscribed to your thread for your theater and await updates!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now just One of my biggest confusions is with this new 2.35.1 screen size. I really loved the Size of the 16:9 I had before when watching HD and playing xBox 360. Now if I go with the narrowness of 2.35.1 my 16:9 is going to be much smaller.
> 
> 
> So what does one do at that point? Go Wider to make up the Difference on the 16:9 height I like now? If I do that, I definitley need to do perforated.
> 
> 
> If I do perforated, Da-Lite is out of the Question and the Next thing I would have to consider would be Screen Research's ClearPix2 which dulled the picture a bit.
> 
> 
> Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I cannot remember if I talked about this in this forum or another. If this is a repeat I apologize.


I had the opportunity to see the Pix2 screen with a width of 8' and a Sony Ruby doing the projecting. The installer that showed me the setup had also installed the black clearscreen material behind the Pix2 material.


At a distance of 5' or closer I could definately see the pattern in the material. However, at the normal distance for an 8' screen (16'), no matter how hard I tried I was unable to discern any pattern or problems with the Pix2 material. No hot spots, no moire(sp)


This was the setup that I had chosen prior to actually seeing it, based on reading only, and was lucky enought to actially experience the exact combination. But now, I believe I like my screens bigger. So I am now thinking of going with a bigger screen but need to do some testing to see if the Ruby will still thro enough light. If I go wider I will be putting my L&R mains behind the screen as well as the center channel.


Joe


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> So my question to all you guys. Do you think the slight dullness of the screen is going to be a bad choice? The only benefit I see of the duller picture is the screen door dissapears more from close up but the real fine detail dissapears too.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


This is one question we cannot answer for you. Because of your trade I am guessing you are extremely more critical than most of us. Also, and I think you and I share this character flaw







, if you know it is there, then it will bother you whether you can see it or not.


If YOU are not thoroughly convinced it is the right solution than I don't hink you should do it.


Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if that is a true comparison, that will show everyone what a good screen will do for the image.



In a way its not an absolutely fair comparison because the first image was before the anamorphic lens arrived and if you look hard you can see black bars ever so slightly on the wall, the other one if I recall correctly was taking up the entire 14' wide screen. This puts the advantage to the painted wall ( it was probably 11 ft. wide-ish, maybe 12' )


Same DVD player, same camera , same auto settings ( Im not smart enough to shoot anything but auto and have it work properly) My jaw dropped the first time I saw the image on the screen, even on old grainy movies like The Good,the Bad and the Ugly the close ups of Eli Wallach and bunch just blow you away.


If I were Ruben I would try very hard to find someone local to test the images on Fabric and a Stewart or other slightly higer priced screen before commiting.


We can barely see a difference between econo and normal bulb brightness but the PJ it self is quiet and cool in econo, its still quiet in normal but the heat intensifies quite a bit. My guess is econo mode is out for sure on a fabric screen, the samples we got were very dim when compared but they were awful small samples


----------



## radm1f




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does Anyone know about this?
> 
> 
> SONY DVP-CX995V
> 
> 
> It's a Sony 400 Disk DVD Jukebox with an HDMI Output.
> 
> Selectable 480p/720p/1080i output via HDMI digital interface
> 
> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-NxnNG0r...sp?i=158CX995V



Sandman I don't know if you are still interested on info on this or not. I own one and am pretty happy with it. As mcascio mentioned it does not have a serial input. It has its own processor for DTS, Dolby Dig II., SACD. For SACDs its output is only through analog channels (6channels), it does have HDMI output but SACDs will not output through that nor the optical output. My biggest complaint about it is that it is not easy to have it so when you turn it on it goes to the menu of the disc list. It always trys to play whatever disc was playing last. Hope this helps.


The stage is absolutely beautiful!!


Mehran


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mark P, please don't edit out the pics. It doesn't clutter up the thread, especially the ones with the paint/screen comparisons, that is unreal. I have talked to lots of people who just want to use a painted board or project onto the wall and if that is a true comparison, that will show everyone what a good screen will do for the image.
> 
> 
> BTW, I have subscribed to your thread for your theater and await updates!



I agree with Scott, Please leave the pictures. It sure changed my impression.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with Scott, Please leave the pictures. It sure changed my impression.
> 
> 
> Joe



Hey jmorris you got the 1000th post in my thread. That's not fair







I thought I would get the 1000th post but all this activity happened while we were hooking up the Grafik Eye.


I figured everyone here would be offline this weekend for the SuperBowl. I personally don't like FootBall, I rather watch Poker










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Give it up -- where did you get the $40 fabric that kicks CCCs butt...??
> 
> 
> On the size - given everything else you've done, you should probably go for the constant height 2.35:1. It will cost more (need a lens) but not that much relative to everything else you've done.



That Fabric I threw up there was clearer than the CCC but not as transparent. I only threw that up for deciding on Size and Ratio. It was definitly clearer but blocked more sound. I have no idea what the material is either, It may be on the receipt somewhere.


I bought at a Fabric Store.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Theres an anamorphic lens which you would want if you were going constant height anyway. It stretchs the picture horizontilly ( I think some stretch vertical as well) then you use the TheaterTek Aspect Ratio settings to adjust the picture to fit the screen.
> 
> 
> We also have to use a scaler when using DirecTv since you cant run an HDTivo into Media Center



Yeah I been reading about those anamorphic lenses. They run about $1,200 or so for them.


I would like to understand better how the anamorphic lens stretches the 16:9 without people looking too fat, or do they? Can someone explain in more detail how they benefit a constant height?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are you going to watch the most? Personnally I would go for the largest 16:9 image and mask vertically for 1.85 and 2.35. Easier masking system to make as well.



I will mostly Watch Movies (via DVD and HTPC), DirectTV nd play Video games in that order.


My friend suggested keeping the 16:9 size I have now 122" x 70" and Mask the top and bottom when needed.


I figured If I did a 2.35:1 screen, I could easily automate the Mask on the Sides for 16:9 with a motorized curtain track.


Ruben


----------



## KWhite

Top/bottom is easier to do because you have gravity to help. With your 16:9 native projector, the anamorphic isn't worth it, you will spend more time messing around with scaling and resizing than you will enjoying it. BTW 98% of the digital cinema installations will not be using an anamorphic lens.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That would be decided with ease as soon as you figure out what it is that will be projected the most and/or If you want black bars when watching 2.35:1 robbing you of 33% of your resolution. If you watch alot of TV , hardly any movies go 16 x 9 , If your going to watch alot of movies and little TV then the choice is obvious.
> 
> 
> Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> Do you want movies big and HDTV considerably smaller with no loss of resolution
> 
> 
> If your not having the screen covered by curtains than 2.35:1 would be a must for the visual impact of walking into an actual theater, to me 16 x 9 just looks to close to a TV screen. Once we hung the screen we really tossed the idea of no curtains around for several days just because of the impact of the Stewart Screen when you walk into the room, it is the whitest white I have ever seen and with proper lighting it really drops your jaw when walking into the room.
> 
> 
> take those pics you made where you masked off the screen sizes and fill them with white or crop a favorite movie and do it sort of like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as using cloth as a screen, I would SERIOUSLY reconsider a gain screen, when we were waiting for the screen we went out and bought the whitest white paints we could find and heres the image
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am just wondering what fabric , vinyl coated or not is going to give you the best picture possible and I just cant see it. Everything we saw was not worth moving the center speaker down right below the screen but again I have external crossovers and tweek the sound any way we choose.
> 
> 
> Good luck , my vote is the biggest 2.35:1 you can go for and not see screendoor ( which is probably 1.25 screen width back, not familiar with your PJ so I dont know for sure) and the center speaker below, do audio testing right now and see if you can tell the difference using your fabric. put it behind, then move it below. We did all this before the PJ and screen ever showed up. In my opinion it would be a major shame to spend the time making such a beautiful room to shock and awe everyone that comes in and then turn the lights off and have the next 2 hours look half as good as it could.
> 
> 
> Let me know when youve read this and I will edit out all my pics as to not clutter up your wonderful thread



Could you explain to me how I will be losing 33% resolution by not having a 2.35:1 Screen? This is fairly new to me.


As you know I have compared every perforated Screen material from Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research & Dazian to my painted wall and the Color differences side by side were not that dramatic like your pictures. It looks llike the white balance in your camera was set differently at the times you took those pictures. I can take pictures and hit the white balance button by mistake and get the same differences. So you may want to look into that. I do it all the time on my camera.


The material I am experimenting with is Vinyl Micro weave material (that's not the material hanging in the pictures I took). I found the same exact weaves VuTec is using on their weaved screens. I even found the same weave Screen Research is using for ClearPix 2, but I need to find out on Monday if it comes in white and grey like all the other weaves I found did.


Upon further comparison's with the Stewart MicroTek Perf, the perfs add an overall graininess to the image. Whereas the weave material seems to maintain the clearity and have better accoustic values than the Stewart microperf.


The open weave and micro weave vinyl material I'm getting runs $12 a yard and comes in 62" and 72" widths and any lenght. Imagine finding a Material that proves just as good if not better than Vutec and Screen Research for $12 a yard? I will be able to do my Screen for under $100.00 and be able to help all the DIY's out at thge same time.










As far as curtains, that was my intentional plans. But after seeing the real cool 2.35:1 rooms on AVS I think I may use my $550 curtain track for Masking now










Also please leave your pictures in my thread.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmackrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> What are your plans for finshing around your projector mount?
> 
> 
> billmac



I made a hush Box. Its just not on in the picture I took.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *artimp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you said something a few threads back about I think the DVD player and possibly the sony jukebox hooked up looking fairly close to the htpc as far as picture quality-- what components are you using? I can't do the HTPC right now so with what you tested what would you have suggested? Your work is TRULY AMAZING!



Components? I am using an Optoma H-79 projector hooked up to the DVD Jukebox via heavy duty Component cables from avcable.com The HTPC is hooked up via DVI.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I cannot remember if I talked about this in this forum or another. If this is a repeat I apologize.
> 
> 
> I had the opportunity to see the Pix2 screen with a width of 8' and a Sony Ruby doing the projecting. The installer that showed me the setup had also installed the black clearscreen material behind the Pix2 material.
> 
> 
> At a distance of 5' or closer I could definately see the pattern in the material. However, at the normal distance for an 8' screen (16'), no matter how hard I tried I was unable to discern any pattern or problems with the Pix2 material. No hot spots, no moire(sp)
> 
> 
> This was the setup that I had chosen prior to actually seeing it, based on reading only, and was lucky enought to actially experience the exact combination. But now, I believe I like my screens bigger. So I am now thinking of going with a bigger screen but need to do some testing to see if the Ruby will still thro enough light. If I go wider I will be putting my L&R mains behind the screen as well as the center channel.
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
> 
> Joe



With the Weaves I'm experimenting with, you do not see the pattern from 3 feet away unless you are looking really hard.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I figured everyone here would be offline this weekend for the SuperBowl. I personally don't like FootBall, I rather watch Poker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I normally watch it more for the commercials and movie trailers in HD. This year, my bro-in-law is going to get the front seat, since he is and always has been a Steelers fan. That makes it a little more exciting.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would like to understand better how the anamorphic lens stretches the 16:9 without people looking too fat, or do they? Can someone explain in more detail how they benefit a constant height?
> 
> Ruben



My understanding of these is that it stretches the image, but you have it compressed to start with, so you end up with a correctly displayed image. For example, when they were showing these being used on 4:3 projectors at CES a few years ago, they had the image normal width, but had the image stretched vertically using the settings in the projector or DVD player to fill the 4:3 image. When they put the lens in front of the image, it compressed the image to 16:9 ratio(this was how they had it set up) which brought the image back to normal looking. By doing this, you don't loose any brightness of the image, since you are always using all the pixels in the display device (say 1024x768 4:3 image with no lens and a compressed 1024x768 image when the lens was in front of it).


Also, from what I remember, the lens has oil between the lenses, which probably helps bring the cost up...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I normally watch it more for the commercials and movie trailers in HD. This year, my bro-in-law is going to get the front seat, since he is and always has been a Steelers fan. That makes it a little more exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of these is that it stretches the image, but you have it compressed to start with, so you end up with a correctly displayed image. For example, when they were showing these being used on 4:3 projectors at CES a few years ago, they had the image normal width, but had the image stretched vertically using the settings in the projector or DVD player to fill the 4:3 image. When they put the lens in front of the image, it compressed the image to 16:9 ratio(this was how they had it set up) which brought the image back to normal looking. By doing this, you don't loose any brightness of the image, since you are always using all the pixels in the display device (say 1024x768 4:3 image with no lens and a compressed 1024x768 image when the lens was in front of it).
> 
> 
> Also, from what I remember, the lens has oil between the lenses, which probably helps bring the cost up...



Thanks Scott for the explaination. Yeah I was reading here someone had a leaky lens










Ruben


----------



## ebr

Sandman - when you watch a 2.35:1 movie on a 16x9 screen your projector projects black bars on the top and bottom to make it a 2.35:1 image (so its only using about 66% of the pixels on your display device for the actual image).


When you use a constant height setup for 2.35:1 you have a processor in between (you are using an htpc so it can do this) that takes the image from the DVD and stretches it vertically so that, if you just sent that straight to your projector, you would have the whole movie filling the 16x9 screen but people would be tall and thin.


Now, stick an anamorphic lens in front of the projector and it stretches the image back to the 2.35:1 ratio. The net of all this is now you are using all the pixels in your projector for the 2.35:1 picture - full resolution.


This is actually how real movie theaters project a widescreen image from 35mm film. Ever notice how the little circles that warn the projectionist (in the old style theaters) that a reel change is coming up are actually ovals, not circles... This is due to this stretching by the lens.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - when you watch a 2.35:1 movie on a 16x9 screen your projector projects black bars on the top and bottom to make it a 2.35:1 image (so its only using about 66% of the pixels on your display device for the actual image).
> 
> 
> When you use a constant height setup for 2.35:1 you have a processor in between (you are using an htpc so it can do this) that takes the image from the DVD and stretches it vertically so that, if you just sent that straight to your projector, you would have the whole movie filling the 16x9 screen but people would be tall and thin.
> 
> 
> Now, stick an anamorphic lens in front of the projector and it stretches the image back to the 2.35:1 ratio. The net of all this is now you are using all the pixels in your projector for the 2.35:1 picture - full resolution.
> 
> 
> This is actually how real movie theaters project a widescreen image from 35mm film. Ever notice how the little circles that warn the projectionist (in the old style theaters) that a reel change is coming up are actually ovals, not circles... This is due to this stretching by the lens.



Awesome explaination ebr. Thanks!!! That completely cleared that question up.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Top/bottom is easier to do because you have gravity to help. With your 16:9 native projector, the anamorphic isn't worth it, you will spend more time messing around with scaling and resizing than you will enjoying it. BTW 98% of the digital cinema installations will not be using an anamorphic lens.




Hes using TheaterTek, it will take him all of about 10 minutes ( if he does it blind folded) to achieve scaling and a about 3 minutes to focus the anamorphic if hes as anal about it as I was when I did it my first time.


I can start from scratch and scale in in less than 1 minute now that I have fudged around with projecter locations about 3 different times.


The anamorphic takes the 33% resolution you lose in the black bars and uses them in the actual picture using a native 1.78:1 native PJ.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As you know I have compared every perforated Screen material from Stewart, Da-Lite, VuTec, Screen Research & Dazian to my painted wall and the Color differences side by side were not that dramatic like your pictures. It looks llike the white balance in your camera was set differently at the times you took those pictures. I can take pictures and hit the white balance button by mistake and get the same differences. So you may want to look into that. I do it all the time on my camera.
> 
> Ruben



I know youre not seeing much of a difference between your painted wall and the fabrics and this is what I was trying to point out, get a sample of Stewart Studiotek 130 ( no microperf) and add that to the mix and see what happens to the colors and contrast.


I was seeing very little difference between Painted and Fabrics, the problem is that if sound can pass through so does light, even light of different colors. Hold up your samples and turn the PJ on and look at how the picture passes right through the fabric onto the wall behind, this is why you will also need blackout cloth .


All that color and light should be on your screen.


I cant hit the white balance button without being a contoursionist. this is the difference between paint and a Stewart Studiotek 130.


I cant believe the folks who have tried the audio screens and the gain screens are not chiming in here, come on guys chime in on what you found in the dimness and color differences. Art Sonneborn where are you?


----------



## ebr

Just as a point of note - using an acoustically transparent screen gives you more than just the ability to place the center channel behind it. It also eliminates a huge sound reflector at the front of your room and, thus, opens up more area for proper acoustical treatment.


There are tradeoffs, for sure, but I just wanted to point that part of the equation out.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know youre not seeing much of a difference between your painted wall and the fabrics and this is what I was trying to point out, get a sample of Stewart Studiotek 130 ( no microperf) and add that to the mix and see what happens to the colors and contrast.
> 
> 
> I was seeing very little difference between Painted and Fabrics, the problem is that if sound can pass through so does light, even light of different colors. Hold up your samples and turn the PJ on and look at how the picture passes right through the fabric onto the wall behind, this is why you will also need blackout cloth .
> 
> 
> All that color and light should be on your screen.
> 
> 
> I cant hit the white balance button without being a contortionist. this is the difference between paint and a Stewart Studiotek 130.
> 
> 
> I cant believe the folks who have tried the audio screens and the gain screens are not chiming in here, come on guys chime in on what you found in the dimness and color differences. Art Sonneborn where are you?



Thanks Mark,


I have the whole Stewart Line up of Samples. I got a bg kit from Stewart. I posted screen Shots of all the Samples side by Side including the wall and a white piece of paper about 150 pages back in this thread










I sat down with multiple friends for countless hours with about 20+ Different Screen Samples (perforated and Non) and the Difference we seen between the Perf and non perf is the loss of brightness due to the Perfs along with Moire in my case.


For the higher gain screens we saw a more glowing brighter screen (which I did not care for). For the Grey Screens we saw Higher contrast/darker blacks. The Solid Screens were pretty equivelent to the white paper and painted wall. The Microperf 130 was pretty close to the Studiotek 130 except a loss of brightness and a grainier looking image. But as far as the 2 pictures you posted, nothing has been that different. Maybe that paint you used was real funky? My painted walls are a Bone white Flat paint.


The reason I took all the Pictures of screen shots was because I thought no one would believe me that the wall was pretty damn good considering.


Here is the Post I did of the Screen shots with Stewarts StudioTek 130 and various others including Da-Lite and white paper and the Wall. If You see a dramatic difference (besides gains) like what you posted, Please point it out to me and I will go to the Doctors first thing Monday Morning and get my eyes checked









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6855895


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry

Ruben,


I ran across some screen size calculators you may or may not know about..

http://www.prismasonic.com/english/srceen_size.shtml#2 

http://www.carltonbale.com/ht/calculator/index.html 


Screen size:

Personally, I like 16:9 because if you use all the height you have and do a 2.35:1 you would have to be way back from the screen to see it all.. just my preference.. maybe you have that distance and that's your plan..


Do you really need masking for showing 2.35:1 on a 16:9 screen? It seems your blacks are very black on the wall projections you showed..


I'm still not clear why you need to have your speakers behind the screen. Have you played with centers mounted above and angled at all?


thanks.. great project!


Jerry


----------



## tonygates2

Ruben,


Beautiful job on the theater. It will be an inspiration when finished.


As far as the screen material goes, you have to consider that your projector will need to be recalibrated based on which screen you are using.


Your projector will look dull on a woven screen which has a .8 gain until you calibrate your white balance to the D65 standard to that particular screen. You will also need to calibrate the picture, tint, contrast and brightness for each screen material since each one is slightly different.


The reason why the other material looks better is that it more closely matches your projectors current settings.


Tony


----------



## CaspianM

I believe you will get a different outcome from different screen materials once your PJ is calibrated to D65 with proper contrast and brightness setting. Would it make sense that Stewart StudioTek 130 which is the industrial standard would be as good as (or as poor as) a painted wall!? Plus there are subtle differences that won't come to play until use the material for a longer term. It is not always what you see at once. Sounds funny but I had screens that thought was as good as screen A but after weeks of using it I saw more things that I did not like about it. What ever you buy make sure is returnable for 30 days if possible.


----------



## tonygates2

True you will get different outcomes with different screen materials with a projector that is calibrated to D65. What you want is a D65 calibration of the projector off the screen material, not from the projector itself. Front projector calibrations will use the screen and projector as a unit, since the image we see is from the screen itself.


So if we take the image off the screen and calibrate it to D65, which is what our eyes are seeing, then look at the projector light itself, it will more than likely not be D65 which is fine since we want the correct standard based off the screen.


Tony


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe you will get a different outcome from different screen materials once your PJ is calibrated to D65 with proper contrast and brightness setting. Would it make sense that Stewart StudioTek 130 which is the industrial standard would be as good as (or as poor as) a painted wall!? Plus there are subtle differences that won't come to play until use the material for a longer term. It is not always what you see at once. Sounds funny but I had screens that thought was as good as screen A but after weeks of using it I saw more things that I did not like about it. What ever you buy make sure is returnable for 30 days if possible.



Not to mention source material being projected and sample sizes. It would be nice if the companys would send out samples large enough to get an acurate representation ( atleast a sq. yard)


Testing with saturated cgi as compared to natural skin tones which the human eye can recognize as natural or not almost imeadiately might show different results .


Pop in "the Incredibles" and project it on a bedsheet and it will probably look great. One nice thing about Moulin Rouge is that its not a very good transfer in my opinion and will show up terrible on a not so good screen, it also has the over saturated colors surrounding a neutral, normal face in many scenes. I have some sheets of sheetrock laying about , I am going to paint one with flat white and stick it smack it the middle of the screen splitting a face in half and see the results after the Superbowl crowd leaves.


As far as calibration to the screen, I took the Mercury HD to a Home Theater meet in the area and the calibrator who sort of hosted the meet stuck some doohicky up in front of the lens on a stand and was messing around on a laptop as a demontration to the participants of the meet about all the different aspects of calibration but never mentioned anything about the screen which I think was a Da-lite, he just said the projector was not needing any adjustments .


Are you guys saying you can calibrate a PJ to look the same on a painted wall as a StudioTek, or are you saying the settings could be off enough to make a Studiotek look as bad as a painted wall.


I think this thread may cover the entire gamut of HT before its done.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey jmorris you got the 1000th post in my thread. That's not fair
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I would get the 1000th post but all this activity happened while we were hooking up the Grafik Eye.
> 
> 
> I figured everyone here would be offline this weekend for the SuperBowl. I personally don't like FootBall, I rather watch Poker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Sorry Man,










Now I am gonna have to try and get the 2000th post too!!!










I would rather watch poker too. I play online quite often too.










Don't I get a prize or something for having the 1000th post? Maybe a get-in-free ticket if I am ever in Boca?










Joe


----------



## tonygates2

If the calibrator was certified thru the ISF then he needs to be reported. To answer your question, yes we first take a color analyzer and place it in front of the projector to get a reading. Then we take a measurement from 12 away from the screen and take that measurement. That will give us the offset in our software to let us know how to proceed with the D65 calibration off the screen.


And yes if the projector is calibrated a certain way and is projected on a Stewart screen or any screen for that matter that throws the calibration way off it will look pretty bad.


The other thing to consider is the ambiance of light in a room. If for instance you bring your projector and screen to me and I calibrate the image off that screen to be D65 and it looks beautiful, then you take it home and your room has more windows or the walls are painted a totally different color, then the image will suddenly look pretty bad. That is why we have to calibrate onsite.


So from what I was saying is that to take ruben's projector and the woven screen and then calibrate the image from that screen to be D65, you will be amazed on how vivid the image become.



Tony


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the Weaves I'm experimenting with, you do not see the pattern from 3 feet away unless you are looking really hard.
> 
> 
> Ruben



How are you measuring the acoustic transparency of these weaves?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hes using TheaterTek, it will take him all of about 10 minutes ( if he does it blind folded) to achieve scaling and a about 3 minutes to focus the anamorphic if hes as anal about it as I was when I did it my first time.
> 
> 
> I can start from scratch and scale in in less than 1 minute now that I have fudged around with projecter locations about 3 different times.
> 
> 
> The anamorphic takes the 33% resolution you lose in the black bars and uses them in the actual picture using a native 1.78:1 native PJ.



But is all of this to use all of the pixels in the projector so that you don't lose brightness? You don't see any more picture like 4x3 vs 16x9 do you?


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonygates2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> And yes if the projector is calibrated a certain way and is projected on a Stewart screen or any screen for that matter that throws the calibration way off it will look pretty bad.
> 
> Tony



So does the reverse host true? Will Ruben be able to use his $12/yd fabric and calibrate his projector to make it look good (D65)?


Joe


----------



## tonygates2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So does the reverse host true? Will Ruben be able to use his $12/yd fabric and calibrate his projector to make it look good (D65)?
> 
> 
> Joe



That depends. There are two important parameters that a screen needs in any high quality projected video display. 1) The screen should be relatively low in gain 2) Have a flat spectral response


Stewart Filmscreen, Da-Lite, Screen Research & others produce a low gain, flat spectral response screens that came about from high-end home theater requirements. As an example, the Studio Tek 130 has a gain of about 1.3, so as you walk around the images displayed on the screen, you will notice that the color quality doesn't appear to change


So if the $12/yd fabric has a flat spectral response and is relatively low in gain and is acoustically transparent, then yes you can calibrate the projector to look good on that material.


Tony


----------



## SmX

I just read through a 12 Page thread Called "The official Vutec screen thread" in the Screens section. It seems like a couple other guys game across the same PVC weaved material I came across. They were about to spill the beans and then they dissapeared from the thread.


Check out these Posts..

This is the same weave VuTec uses...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6055568 


Here is a similar pattern to Screen Research C;learpix 2, not the same, but similar...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6056752 



Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...They were about to spill the beans and then they dissapeared from the thread...



ooohh. I bet they're buried right next to Jimmy Hoffa...


----------



## SmX

Yeah, I just learned his post got deleted and someone told me this talk is Taboo around here. So I better stop talking about it.


Ruben


----------



## mbkintner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I better stop talking about it.



I hope that was a joke. I know there are lots of people interested in your results so keep talking. You might as well keep it public on the boards cause you'll be flooded with PM if you don't. Well, "flooded" might be an exaggeration but I know you'll get at least one.


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you want HDTV big and movies considerably smaller with 33% loss on resolution



Mark,

This has been bothering me since I first read it.. and it just doesn't make sense to me.


Surely this was true when CRT projectors were the only game in town. You needed a lens to stretch the picture to take advantage of every pixel on a DVD. They squeezed a wide screen image onto a DVD and an anamorphic lens would let you use the entire 540 lines of resolution on the DVD, but stretched back out to it's original format.


But how do you figure this with a digitial projector with a much higher resolution? With digital you are scaling UP. You have many more pixels than are on the DVD original! You are losing absolutely no resolution at all as far as I can tell.


Maybe I'm missing something.. if so, please enlighten me! If you are only referring to size of picture, wouldn't simple zooming take care of that? But that's not resolution.


Thanks!


Jerry


----------



## BFauska

As far as the 33% loss of resolution goes... Any given projector can only produce X number of pixels, and when you project an image with black bars on the top and bottom (anything wider than 16:9) there are pixels being wasted on the black bars. If you first distort the image tol use all of the pixels of the projector (without the lens this would look too tall and stretched) and then send it through a lens that makes it the right shape again you don't waste the pixels at the top and bottom where the bars would be. On a 2.35:1 film this wasted number of pixels is about 33%.


The 2.35:1 FAQ in the constant height area of this forum is an excelent resource.


Ruben, If you have cataloged your dvds in something like DVD Profiler you could sort and view a list of them by aspect ratio, this may help you decide which shape to make your screen. I know that of my little collection of 160 dvds I have 71 that are 16:9, 71 that are wider than 16:9 and 17 that are narrower than 16:9. Weird numbers now that I look at them but it seems like something that would be worth looking into with a collection like yours. It may not be as simple as majority rules, but if you are on the fence it may help make the decision.


On a side note (and fairly inconsequential since I will most likely never see a movie in your theater) I vote for 2.35:1. I think that it better captures the cinema experience and most of the movies I consider visually stunning are 2.35.


just my long winded 2 cents.


Looking fantastic, keep up the great work.

Brian


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFauska* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as the 33% loss of resolution goes... Any given projector can only produce X number of pixels, and when you project an image with black bars on the top and bottom (anything wider than 16:9) there are pixels being wasted on the black bars. If you first distort the image tol use all of the pixels of the projector (without the lens this would look too tall and stretched) and then send it through a lens that makes it the right shape again you don't waste the pixels at the top and bottom where the bars would be. On a 2.35:1 film this wasted number of pixels is about 33%.
> 
> 
> The 2.35:1 FAQ in the constant height area of this forum is an excelent resource.
> 
> 
> Ruben, If you have cataloged your dvds in something like DVD Profiler you could sort and view a list of them by aspect ratio, this may help you decide which shape to make your screen. I know that of my little collection of 160 dvds I have 71 that are 16:9, 71 that are wider than 16:9 and 17 that are narrower than 16:9. Weird numbers now that I look at them but it seems like something that would be worth looking into with a collection like yours. It may not be as simple as majority rules, but if you are on the fence it may help make the decision.
> 
> 
> On a side note (and fairly inconsequential since I will most likely never see a movie in your theater) I vote for 2.35:1. I think that it better captures the cinema experience and most of the movies I consider visually stunning are 2.35.
> 
> 
> just my long winded 2 cents.
> 
> 
> Looking fantastic, keep up the great work.
> 
> Brian




Hi Brian,


Thanks! I have 868 Widescreen Movies According to filters in DVD Profiler. I cannot figure how to filter the aspect ratio, I only see filters for Full Frame, Pan Scan, Widescreen and 16:9 Enhanced. No filters for 1:85 or 2.35:1. So when I select "Widescreen" Enhanced 16:9 it says I have 868.


I mostly bought widescreen movies on DVD if they were available I do have about 100 or so Full Screen movies. So How do I filter the Aspect in DVD Profiler?


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well I finally Made my Mind up on the Screen Aspect Ratio. I'm going to do a Constant Height 2.35:1. There is nothing cooler in the world than having a true wide screen in your theater.


Like it was said above, a 16:9 resembles todays HD TVs and I'm not looking to have a 122" wide HD movie screen in my Theater. So That's my Final Answer.


Now my only worry is how to set up my HTPC so that when I turn it on I can see my Native 16:9 desktop without the top and bottom bleeding off the Screen.


So Now I can get this Screen wall completed.


Ruben


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now my only worry is how to set up my HTPC so that when I turn it on I can see my Native 16:9 desktop without the top and bottom bleeding off the Screen.



Maybe I don't understand what a constant height 2.35:1 screen is, but I thought the whole idea of constant height was that everything _would_ fit on your screen height. In native mode, isn't the projector set to display the image to fit the screen from top to bottom and then have black bars on the sides? Then I though when you wanted wide screen (2.35:1), you still displayed the image from the projector in native mode. This would normally show an image that is squished from side to side, giving you the appearance of thin characters in the image. To correct this, I thought you used an anamorphic lens to stretch the image from side to side to fit on your full screen.


Ignore me if I don't know what I'm talking about here. I'm still confused with constant height 2.35:1


----------



## TheSpoon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Brian,
> 
> 
> Thanks! I have 868 Widescreen Movies According to filters in DVD Profiler. I cannot figure how to filter the aspect ratio, I only see filters for Full Frame, Pan Scan, Widescreen and 16:9 Enhanced. No filters for 1:85 or 2.35:1. So when I select "Widescreen" Enhanced 16:9 it says I have 868.
> 
> 
> I mostly bought widescreen movies on DVD if they were available I do have about 100 or so Full Screen movies. So How do I filter the Aspect in DVD Profiler?
> 
> 
> Ruben



To find your aspect ratio in DVD Profiler...

Goto the menu bar and find charts and graphs(2nd to last button) and then Select "Statistics" on new window that opens and then Video -> Ratios.


Love the thread.


Nelson


----------



## ebr

You're not confused, Scott. He'll have no problem with his desktop. He can either remove the lens (or use one that has a "passthru" mode) or let his desktop be stretched but no bleeding outside the screen area will occur.


I wish I could do 2.35:1 but money and width constraints in my room preclude it







.


----------



## 68sting

What ratio are the new HD movies going to be in? I would make that my priority.


----------



## Mark P

We have the desktop of XP and Media Center taking up the entire 2.25:1 screen. nothing looks stretched or abnormal infact alot of people comment on how cool it looks to have a widescreen windows


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheSpoon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To find your aspect ratio in DVD Profiler...
> 
> Goto the menu bar and find charts and graphs(2nd to last button) and then Select "Statistics" on new window that opens and then Video -> Ratios.
> 
> 
> Love the thread.
> 
> 
> Nelson





Thanks Nelson!!!


So on that note, I have...


432 - 1.85 Aspect Ratio DVDs

375 - 2.35 Aspect Ratio DVDs

75 - 1.33 Aspect Ratio DVDs

46 - 2.40 Aspect Ratio DVDs

15 - 1.76 Aspect Ratio DVDs


and it goes down from there


Ruben


----------



## Big Worms




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're not confused, Scott. He'll have no problem with his desktop. He can either remove the lens (or use one that has a "passthru" mode) or let his desktop be stretched but no bleeding outside the screen area will occur.
> 
> 
> I wish I could do 2.35:1 but money and width constraints in my room preclude it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Your room width is almost as big as Sandman's so if he can fit you can. How much more width would you want?


----------



## SmX

Update:


Well guys, today I dedicated my day to find my screen material. Since I own a film company, I was able to open an account at a nearby supplier of Materials.


What I'm about to tell you will probably shock you (or maybe not)


I spent the day putting paperwork together to get an account at this supplier. So once the account got set up, I drove 65 miles to them to check out samples. This place has a billion different PVC/Vinyl weaves. They had a box of sample cards and books ready for me when I got there. I spent about a half hour going through the sample cards looking at the different weaves. Trying to find the perfect match to the VuTec Material. I found about 6 different candidates.


So as I was looking and comparing the samples with the VuTec samples , one of the managers came out and saw the VuTec material I was comparing and said right off the back, "Oh are you looking for that material too?" and I was like "Yeah?!?" So he runs off to the warehouse and comes out with the same exact identicle material as the VuTecs. It even comes in the same 3 openess weave patterns they offer. It also comes in 90" widths by 30 Yard rolls.


So it looks like I found the resource. I also brought home a bunch of other cool weaves to sample. So I will be experimenting tonight.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We thought it was amazing and started to wonder if we wasted money, and heres after the screen



Is this from Moulin Rouge?


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is this from Moulin Rouge?



Yes, the " poetry reading" scene


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Big Worms* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your room width is almost as big as Sandman's so if he can fit you can. How much more width would you want?



Most of my room is 14' 6". However, there is a "bump" in the front (where the screen will be) that makes the screen area only 8' 6". A 2.35:1 screen in that space would be too small for 1.85/16x9 material.


On the windows desktop stretch thing - if you define your desktop properly, no, it won't stretch. I'm typing this on a computer with three monitors attached as a single desktop - total resolution 4160 x 1024.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, the " poetry reading" scene



Hey Mark,


What Lens are you using for your 2.35:1? Also, someone above mentioned something about a anamorphic passive lens? Do you know if I will need that?


Ruben


----------



## sharerware




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So it looks like I found the resource. I also brought home a bunch of other cool weaves to sample. So I will be experimenting tonight.



I'm eagerly awaiting your results.


----------



## theirishgonzo

what dues it cost to get a d65 calabraton? and can it be done by a enduser?


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theirishgonzo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what dues it cost to get a d65 calabraton? and can it be done by a enduser?



I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.


Ruben


----------



## tonygates2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


awesome job on the screen comparisons.


The avia disk is a great disk to do the basic calibrations. I also believe that the new mce has a built in calibration wizard, that is easier to use than the avia disk. It was a joint venture between Microsoft and Joel silver, president of ISF.


But unless you have a color analyzer and software you will not be able to do more advanced calibrations like white balance for instance.


Tony


----------



## SmX

Updates:


Man I really have to Give it up to Chirpie (Ryan). The guy is So good at 3-D renders he makes me want to Slap my Momma







If anyone here is thinking about doing a room, you got to let Chirpie render your Ideas out first. This guy has unrealistic talents!


Awesome Work Chirpie!!!!


Here are some new revised 3-D renders of our theater provided by Chirpie...


----------



## tonygates2

Ruben,


I would be interested to see what the gain is of the screen samples. If you have a spot light meter (I'm sure if you don't you will make one) than you can get a rough estimate using the follow steps.


1) put a flat field or window pattern up on the screen. Avia disk should have a 100ire window

2) sit in the best viewing position, the focal point with the light meter

3) Aim the meter at the center of the screen and take the measurement

4) Now take a flat matte white paper large enough to cover the area the light meter will read (typing paper) and hang it into place temporarily

5) Take a reading of the reflected light from the paper

6) the ratio between the two is the rough level of the screen


Tony


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tonygates2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I would be interested to see what the gain is of the screen samples. If you have a spot light meter (I'm sure if you don't you will make one) than you can get a rough estimate using the follow steps.
> 
> 
> 1) put a flat field or window pattern up on the screen. Avia disk should have a 100ire window
> 
> 2) sit in the best viewing position, the focal point with the light meter
> 
> 3) Aim the meter at the center of the screen and take the measurement
> 
> 4) Now take a flat matte white paper large enough to cover the area the light meter will read (typing paper) and hang it into place temporarily
> 
> 5) Take a reading of the reflected light from the paper
> 
> 6) the ratio between the two is the rough level of the screen
> 
> 
> Tony



Tony,


They had the same gain as the VuTec .85


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

Hi Sandman, I must say amazing work and thanks for all of the construction pictures.


I hope you dont mind, but I am "stealing" about 75% of your ideas because your theater design is alot better than what I came up with.{lol} I will be going Charcoal grey were you have red and I am not sure about the ceiling yet, but other than that I would have to say your hometheater is the nicest I have seen.


Once again, Excellent Job.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Sandman, I must say amazing work and thanks for all of the construction pictures.
> 
> 
> I hope you dont mind, but I am "stealing" about 75% of your ideas because your theater design is alot better than what I came up with.{lol} I will be going Charcoal grey were you have red and I am not sure about the ceiling yet, but other than that I would have to say your hometheater is the nicest I have seen.
> 
> 
> Once again, Excellent Job.



Thank You for all your compliments Collin. Go ahead and Steal them, I stole mine










Ruben


----------



## HeyNow^

Ruben,


Is this fabric only available through wholesale outlets? I would love to get my hands on some of it so I can push my viewing screen out and place my speakers behind the screen. I don't want to break any forum rules, but any ballpark pricing/fabric names that can be talked about?


Is this fabric readily available in most geographical areas?


Thanks,

Randy.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think an Avia Dvd will take care of calibrating the Picture. I have all of the calibration DVDs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Never heard of it, looked it up, bought it!!


Thanks


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I will most likely go with a 5% Openness weave due to it not obstructing sound at all.



"But how do you know this?" (sounding like Checkov in StarTrek II)


Seriously, I could not find any acoustic measurements information on VuTec's web page. I have seen the analysis for the Pix1/2 material. Do you have a link to any acoustic measurements with these materials?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tony,
> 
> 
> They had the same gain as the VuTec .85
> 
> 
> Ruben



Hmmm, both the same? There is no impact based on the brightness of the material? I would have thought that the ultra-bright would have had a higher gain.


Joe


----------



## larryep

man, Chirpie did a great job on those renders. at first I thought you were finished with the theater.


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben..


I like the Bright White material! The "weave" seams flatter than the other Ultra Bright White sample.


Just my $0.02.


Sean


----------



## darkman2003

Wow!!!


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Mark,
> 
> 
> What Lens are you using for your 2.35:1? Also, someone above mentioned something about a anamorphic passive lens? Do you know if I will need that?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben ,

We are using an Isco 3, we didnt even research the differences here and went straight for the Grand Poobah of Ka-Chingyness after talking to several 2.35:1 people with larger screens and longer throws. We leave it in place and you can not tell the lens is even there in the detail, brightness, contrast department. We get a slight pincushion throwing almost 30' on a 14' wide screen.


Once you decide which one your after you may want to wait on finalizing you DIY screen frame and make a slight curve but we found a 1" pincushion on our scale was so little we just bury it into the black velvet


This puppy is a beast, you would certainly have to re-do your hush box ( you probably will with any)


I would link to some threads about the anamorphic lenses but I am pretty busy today, if you search Mark J. Foster or Isco 3 either will give you some details on this particular lens. I think the Prismatic or Prismonic or something like that is the most popular here. I was told there was a big difference between the Isco 2 and 3 and the Isco 2 can be bought used for considerably cheaper but I cant remember why I was steered away from it .


@ over 4K and a long wait to get the lens made and shipped from Germany it may not be the best option, as your finding with screens, you may be able to do better with research


----------



## Mark P

PS,

Love the 2.35:1 renders, if you are primarily watching this aspect ratio you will love this setup, we just force everything 1.78:1 into 1.85:1 and have 2 settings. A video Guru may notice but we dont.


I hope I didnt add to much of a headache by suggesting this 2.35:1 ordeal, I am sure someone would have so you can blame them for the extended cost and tweaking you will experience


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SVonhof

Wow, so far, this seems to be a very conclusive test you are doing. It's almost like the Vutec screen has an auto-blurr setting or something. As soon as it's in front of the image, it seems as if you have purposly blurred it (I know you wouldn't do that).


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, so far, this seems to be a very conclusive test you are doing. It's almost like the Vutec screen has an auto-blurr setting or something. As soon as it's in front of the image, it seems as if you have purposly blurred it (I know you wouldn't do that).



I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, so far, this seems to be a very conclusive test you are doing. It's almost like the Vutec screen has an auto-blurr setting or something. As soon as it's in front of the image, it seems as if you have purposly blurred it (I know you wouldn't do that).



Hey, Don't bother me now. I'm trying to figure out a cool name for my new screen company







...Now let's See.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.
> 
> 
> Joe



I guess our eyes can't focus On it either. But then, why would they make a screen your eyes can't focus on? Oh, I get it... They made this screen so you can't bootleg a movie in the theaters. Nice. I should of known










But on a serious Note, it's worst in person. Now if you have the whole screen done in the VuTec, you prob wouldn't realize how blurry it is. The only reason you See it now, is because you are seeing it Side by side with a Better performing material. These are pretty much the Same results I get with Clearpix2 as well. Maybe its my Projector?


If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/


Ruben


----------



## documentarymaker

Ruben,

Are you saying that the Dazian is crap or the opposite...


I was leaning towards their product until your recent posts. I'm dying to know what "mystery sample #3 " is...


Kevin -


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *documentarymaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Are you saying that the Dazian is crap or the opposite...
> 
> 
> I was leaning towards their product until your recent posts. I'm dying to know what "mystery sample #3 " is...
> 
> 
> Kevin -




"If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/"



I think my last words in the post above answered that question rather well.


----------



## documentarymaker

Ok then...I thought I read that right










Does your assesment (sp?) also apply to their _uncoated_ Celtic cloth?


All joking aside you are probably going to have to set up a distributership for this material your talking about...Your going to have everybody clamoring for it...



Kevin -


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If you think this is bad, you need to see the Dazian Coated Celtic Cloth. I would of done some comparisons, but I ran out of toilet paper a few days ago :/
> 
> 
> Ruben



ROFL


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. It is really odd that the Vutec is so blurred. It is almost as if Ruben's camera is unable to focus on it.
> 
> 
> Joe



I was actually thinking the same thing, but don't know why the camera wouldn't be able to focus on it, since it was so sharp on the rest of the picture. The only thing I can think of is that it looks in some of the pictures as if the Vutec is sitting in front of the other material and that is screwing it up. But then you have the arrow on both materials, nothing else around it, and that makes you scratch your head and go: "Huh?"


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But on a serious Note, it's worst in person. Now if you have the whole screen done in the VuTec, you prob wouldn't realize how blurry it is. The only reason you See it now, is because you are seeing it Side by side with a Better performing material. These are pretty much the Same results I get with Clearpix2 as well. Maybe its my Projector?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ok, no offense meant, but thinking about it, it just doesn't make sense to me that it is impossible to focus on the material. Or ANY material for that matter.


I did notice that all of your pictures have the Vutec in Front of the mystery material.


But, you being the video expert, have you ever expeienced an inability to focus on a material? I am very perplexed.










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was actually thinking the same thing, but don't know why the camera wouldn't be able to focus on it, since it was so sharp on the rest of the picture. The only thing I can think of is that it looks in some of the pictures as if the Vutec is sitting in front of the other material and that is screwing it up. But then you have the arrow on both materials, nothing else around it, and that makes you scratch your head and go: "Huh?"



heh, I was typing while you were posting. Can we both be soooo wrong?


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, I got a better Idea. I will put the Vutec Sample (which is 8" x 10") right smack in the middle of the Sample #3 material. This way you can see all 4 sides of the Sample material verses the Vutec. I will shoot the Picture Straight on (as much as light will let me). I will do this after my late dinner here. So check back In a Hour from this post.
> 
> 
> If that isn't good enough, you'll need to buy a plane ticket
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I think they are trying to say that the 1mm thickness of the Vutec material being on TOP of the other material is causing it to be out of focus?????







I highly doubt 1 mm(or however thick the material is) is going to change the focal point that drastically!


I guess the question to ask is..did you try to refocus the PJ on the Vutec material? Being A video guy...I'm sure you did. I'm not an expert, maybe there is some strange property of the Vutec material theat would change the focal point(hard to believe, but I think that might be what others think).


Either way, you have more expertise in this area than me, so I'll say Good Find! Now get cracking on that business model.


----------



## GPowers

These fabrics look a lot like the sunscreen shades we just purchased for our office. You can purchase them in just about any color and from 0% to 50% weaves. The different weaves allow varying degrees of blocking the sun vs. being able to see through the shade. We purchased a 15% weave in black.


The shades are used a lot in hotter climates, like Arizona, California and Florida.


One of the trade name is "SheerWeave".


----------



## CaspianM

Actually 1 mm variation in the plane field depth can cause out of focus particularly in foreground. He should take a picture of both side by side rather than one on top of the other.

A better way would be take a pic from 3' rather than close up so he has a deeper depth of field to work with. The VUTEC is out of focus so all its perms.


----------



## Mark P

Is there a chance you can throw a sample of non perf/weave material up into the mix and maybe the Clearpix sample.

How far from your screen will you be sitting? Not to be a party pooper but the material that looks more in focus and/or brighter also looks like it really adds to screendoor if not making 2 or 3 different screen doors with its 10%, it also looks like it shades the individual pixels giving each pixel not 1 color but 2-4. Its almost like its adding EE to the picture.


I know these are Macro Close Up pictures, but I am sitting 30' away and the softer image looks more appealing , the other looks really harsh. Does the Sample look good from you seating area? Most of what I am saying comes from the cursor shot, the soft image has defined natural grays inside the cursor and good looking transition right outside the cursor with the light tan pixels, the other in focus one has Magenta and purple and blue inside the cursor and makes a serious mess of what appears to be skin. whats going on with the whites in the upper right of both those cursor shots? The soft looks defined and the in focus looks blurry, are these two seperate steps in whatever youre demoing?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

I get it !!! Ruben is a photoshop expert and is pulling a fast one on us










Shame on you Ruben.



Im curious why your fingers and knuckes are in the pics?



Ronnie


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CaspianM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually 1 mm variation in the plane field depth can cause out of focus particularly in foreground.



I'm betting against it. With decent light and a low F stop it's all moot on the "field" anyway. It's all fun to test though. ^_^


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GPowers* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One of the trade name is "SheerWeave".



Interesting, first page I found with pricing.

http://www.bestblinds.com/productpag..._2390_4000.php 



mmmmmm. free samples(up to 10)


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Test_Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting, first page I found with pricing.
> 
> http://www.blindstore.net/roll_shades/sheerwave4000.htm



I should have recognized this, its on our blackouts ( black of course) with white vinyl backing on an auto roller system


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> If that isn't good enough, you'll need to buy a plane ticket
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Hmmm, I think it is supposed to get below zero tonight and snow. And you are where? Ha, I got over 400,000 frequent flyer miles baby!!!! Make the guest bedroom up!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I think it is supposed to get below zero tonight and snow. And you are where? Ha, I got over 400,000 frequent flyer miles baby!!!! Make the guest bedroom up!



63% right Now in Boca Raton


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If You want THX certified, you can buy a THX Plaque on eBay.



NICE! I like your humor!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 63% right Now in Boca Raton



man, and you just HAD to use the shades icon to rub it in


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> The cat's out the bag.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Cool. Thanks Ruben. On to the next set of dilemmas.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 63% right Now in Boca Raton



I like cooking my marshmallows in the fire in the winter time thankyou very much!

(no wonder his vehicles don't miss his garage. )


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> So that's pretty much it guys. I will let you test from here on if you want, but a few people are getting upset, so I will move on.
> 
> 
> The cat's out the bag.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I dont think anyones getting mad, this might be the most interesting topic I have seen in 6 months. Vutec and Clearpix might be mad , when Screen Research quoted our screen I wish it were 3-6K, try almost 10K and another 15 K for a masking system.


Make sure you head over to the DIY crowd and post a link to these last couple pages, you will hit a million posts by tomorrow night!


I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?


----------



## BFauska

I bet that the Vutec has some sort of diffusion coating with the goal of creating a softer image, adding gain, or creating a wider viewing angle, and that coating would make the image seem less focused. I assume that now that you have a large sample you could tell if you are going to get hot spots with this new wonder-fabric, diffusion could reduce that also. If you are not seeing any hot spots or having viewing angle problems I would love to add my name to the list of people interested in knowing what this fabric is and where to get it. I figured that I would end up with speakers next to any inexpensive DIY screen instead of something that looked good, allowed sound thru, and was cheap.


A word on the camera focus debate, look at the first picture of all the samples together, they are stacked several layers deep and they are all in focus, so if ruben is taking the photos in a similar fashion then there should not be anywhere near that much difference in the focus of the camera from one layer of screen to another with the image samples. Looks like a much sharper image on the cheap screen to me.


I do see a potential problem building in the works here though. After sucking us all into his DIY scam, Ruben is going to try to get us all to join his wonder-screen pyramid sales program.










Keep up the brilliant work, I can't go a day without checking up on your thread.


Later,

Brian



EDIT... OOPS took ten min to type this and by the time I finished it was less relevant. Oh well.


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?



If Your Doing an Outdoor Screen you got do this. What else is gonna be better?Especially when you can do a 98" height x 260" for under $200


The weight is 17 - 20 Ounces per linear yard.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont think anyones getting mad, this might be the most interesting topic I have seen in 6 months. Vutec and Clearpix might be mad , when Screen Research quoted our screen I wish it were 3-6K, try almost 10K and another 15 K for a masking system.
> 
> 
> Make sure you head over to the DIY crowd and post a link to these last couple pages, you will hit a million posts by tomorrow night!
> 
> 
> I would still love to see your results with the Clearpix thrown in, I am looking for an out door screen sort of like a drive in theater for pool partys and your material kicks the crap out of a bed sheet. I may be ordering a large sample of your #3 you choose. Is it heavy, are there weight specs?



Hey, Maybe I should start a screen company?







LOL


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If Your Doing an Outdoor Screen you got do this. What else is gonna be better?Especially when you can do a 98" height x 260" for under $200
> 
> 
> The weight is 17 - 20 Ounces per linear yard.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Not to mention if the wind comes up the open weave would certainly help. $200 why mess around with samples. The Mercury HDs manual says something about throwing a 500" image .


Sound would be a major issue outside


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Ruben, How do you think this material would rate against non-perf screens. I dont need a perf screen in my setup and if this would be comparable, Im game for saving some $$$$$


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention if the wind comes up the open weave would certainly help. $200 why mess around with samples. The Mercury HDs manual says something about throwing a 500" image .
> 
> 
> Sound would be a major issue outside



Thats what I'm doing as well. Gonna have a pool partys this summer and set up a screen outdoors. But I'm not a big baller like you










You can open a cinema with that bad boy.

The largest seamless height your going to get with this material is 98".

So you'll be able to do a seamless 98" x 230" (250" Diagonal) 2.35:1 Screen unless you don't mind seams, then the sky is the limit, literally










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, How do you think this material would rate against non-perf screens. I dont need a perf screen in my setup and if this would be comparable, Im game for saving some $$$$$
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Stick with non perf If You don't need it.


The biggest factor of having your speakers behind your screen is having the True Movie going experience in your home. There is nothing better in this world than the Sound coming out of you screen like a real movie theater. I mean that's why we are building theaters right?


I figured you would be doing that with that cineplex your building there.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

I dont really need a non-perf. I built space for my center either above or below. I guess I could always mount the center in the middle of a screen with a perf, but I would rather have better video and sacrafice a little imaging with the speaker either above or below than sacrafice picture for a center channel behind screen.


So the suggestion would be to stick with a non-perf huh?


They also make a model 4800 with 1% weave. Wonder how that would stack up?


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont really need a non-perf. I built space for my center either above or below. I guess I could always mount the center in the middle of a screen with a perf, but I would rather have better video and sacrafice a little imaging with the speaker either above or below than sacrafice picture for a center channel behind screen.
> 
> 
> So the suggestion would be to stick with a non-perf huh?
> 
> 
> They also make a model 4800 with 1% weave. Wonder how that would stack up?
> 
> 
> Ronnie



I say experiment. If You like something, go with it. Your a creative, Experimental guy like me, so I think you'll do fine. When I was shooting a picture on my flat painted bone white wall, it looked just as good as allot of the samples I had up there. I think with the newer high end projectors we have now a days, the image looks damn good on just about whatever it hits.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I hope some of you guys with these big Micro Perf Stewarts and Screen Research screens buy some of this material and test it out and let me know your thoughts.


Ruben


----------



## Milt99

Rueben,

As usual excellent work!

How do you plan on attaching the screen to your frame?

Thanks


----------



## Psychoholic

I am SOLD on that material! After seeing the care that you've taken in every other aspect of this theater and in the 'spared no expense' manner it's done - for you to recommend a DIY solution and building it out of this material, it must be nice stuff. Are you allowed to post where you bought it from?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rueben,
> 
> As usual excellent work!
> 
> How do you plan on attaching the screen to your frame?
> 
> Thanks



Probably Gum







Dont know yet. I have a resource to buy aluminum J-Frame material to make the frame. But I may make it out of wood and cover it with Black Commando Cloth or Velour. I may just velcro it. I will let you know when It's time to cross that bridge.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Psychoholic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am SOLD on that material! After seeing the care that you've taken in every other aspect of this theater and in the 'spared no expense' manner it's done - for you to recommend a DIY solution and building it out of this material, it must be nice stuff. Are you allowed to post where you bought it from?



I'm not trying to Sell it







I'm just letting you guys know what I'm rolling with.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Guys, I also want to add that I am trying different Painting options with this weaved material as well. I posted this in my other thread a while back in the DIY Screen Section but never posted It in here. I am experimenting with different metallic silver paints to get that extra intense imaging.


I just got a PM from Alan Gouger and he said if I can find the right Platinum/Silver Paint to use with this material, that I would have found my Dream Screen. Does anyone here know about this Platinum Paint that Stewart uses on there screens?


Ruben


----------



## dc_pilgrim

This remains the greatest thread. I am giving serious thought to investing the time to color print this thing when you are done. I hope you do the cost recap that you had mentioned doing when this started. Just an awesome survey of all the key topics. I kind of wish Bpape wasn't doing the accousitics so that we could see the Mcguyver-esque accoustic engineering that would certainly follow.


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, Don't bother me now. I'm trying to figure out a cool name for my new screen company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...Now let's See.



"Da-Sandman"...


Interesting conclusions. What widths can you get the stuff in and how much did you pay for the material if you don't mind me asking? Might have missed it in one of my 100K views of your thread!


Bud


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Da-Sandman"...
> 
> 
> Interesting conclusions. What widths can you get the stuff in and how much did you pay for the material if you don't mind me asking? Might have missed it in one of my 100K views of your thread!
> 
> 
> Bud



Post #1090


----------



## Skippard

Now that Ruben has "solved" the best AT screen dilema, I can't wait to see his screen framing solution!


When Ruben is done with his HT and aquarium who thinks we should have him look at peace in the Middle East, cold fusion , the deficit, putting a man on Mars and flying cars?







Everyone knows that he would solve all those problems and more.


"When Ruben traveled through time to the year 3010,

he fought the evil robot king and saved us all agian.

When Ruben built the pyramids,

he beat up Koublah Khan!

Cause Ruben doesn't take **** from an-y-bo-dy!

That's what Ruben'd do!"


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skippard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now that Ruben has "solved" the best AT screen dilema, I can't wait to see his screen framing solution!
> 
> 
> When Ruben is done with his HT and aquarium who thinks we should have him look at peace in the Middle East, cold fusion , the deficit, putting a man on Mars and flying cars?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone knows that he would solve all those problems and more.
> 
> 
> "When Ruben traveled through time to the year 3010,
> 
> he fought the evil robot king and saved us all agian.
> 
> When Ruben built the pyramids,
> 
> he beat up Koublah Khan!
> 
> Cause Ruben doesn't take **** from an-y-bo-dy!
> 
> That's what Ruben'd do!"



Time to get some WWRD bumper stickers


----------



## jmorris644

OhOh,


Over 99,500 views!!!!


----------



## r00ster




> Quote:
> It's around $20+ a Yard and comes in 63", 83" and 98" widths x 30 Yard Rolls.
> 
> So Yes, you can make that 160" diagonal for under $100.00 of course you would need to build your frame as well, but I have a resource for that too if You Need it.
> 
> If You want THX certified, you can buy a THX Plaque on eBay.



Ruben,


You are da man!!!. I personally love the THX certification of your screen! It would be great for all of us copy cats to learn your resource and method for your screen framing. I have been looking into your screen material and have found that Phifer fabrics are available through many custom shade manufacturers around the country. I am going to be calling some of them here in Denver today, thanks for the info.


Did you get a custom order for the 5% openness? or did you end up ordering the 4400 series? I have not found the 4100 series with 5% openness unless it is a custom order. Thanks for the hard work, keep it up.


Drew


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know about this Platinum Paint that Stewart uses on there screens?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben, I don't think it could be considered to be a paint, since the way Stewart screens are made is from a mixture of vinyl beads that are melted and sprayed onto the ceiling (o.k., fixtures hanging from the ceiling) so that the overspray just drops out of the way and does not affect screen quality. They don't use any kind of paint that I am aware of. I have a 4.5 year old Grayhawk screen and it does have a shimmer to it when you look at it, and I don't know how they did that, but I don't beleive it's paint.


----------



## SVonhof

Oh, Ruben and others, in case you need a source for fabrics that are typically used for theater environments:


Rose Brand Theatrical Fabrics, Fabrication and Supplies
http://www.rosebrand.com/ 

New York city: 800-223-1624 or Hollywood: 800-360-5056


They have the Commando cloth that Ruben was mentioning as well as a black fabric tape for the Commando cloth.


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## ChiTown_Jerry

Having this made up as a shade might be a pretty cool solution for those who don't have the space for a permanently mounted screen!


Ruben, if you paint it are you concerned you'll be filling up the perf too much and block sound?


If you are looking for metallic paint, they have it at some craft stores. They also make some stuff called "Screen Goo" for painting on a wall, etc.. but it may add some extra reflectiveness to this material as well. I don't know anything about it but here's their site:

http://www.goosystems.com/index.php 



Great find on that material! thanks, man!


Jerry


----------



## bpape

Sorry I'm taking away your McGuyver fix


----------



## FusionRx

Screen company names:


"Clear-er pix"


"I did my screen research"








I wonder if that violates any trademark laws....


----------



## JosephShaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sample #3 (my favorite) is Phifers SheerWeave 4100 with a 10% openness color is P06 Chalk. I will try to get this in a 5% openness to have smaller holes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben, thanks for the find. According to the Phifer web page, it appears that the style dictates the openness percentage. The 4000 is 5% openness and the 4100 is the 10% openness, but they are made of the same vinyl coated polyester yarns.


So you might want to pick up a saple of the SheerWeave 4000 in P06 chalk to avoid the custom run charges from Pfifer.


Joseph


----------



## FusionRx

Re: Paint.

3M makes a reflective paint that is supposed to be similar to the reflective material that they have on bike jackets. You know the ones that shine BRIGHT WHITE when you hit it with your headlites? Cost is probably prohibitive, however. I know that the tape (like the stuff for the bike jackets) is $470 per 150ft roll (2 inches wide).


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## JosephShaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Re: Paint.
> 
> 3M makes a reflective paint that is supposed to be similar to the reflective material that they have on bike jackets. You know the ones that shine BRIGHT WHITE when you hit it with your headlites? Cost is probably prohibitive, however. I know that the tape (like the stuff for the bike jackets) is $470 per 150ft roll (2 inches wide).



If you're talking about the 3M Scotchlite liquid paint, they no longer sell it, at least in the US. They still make the beads to add to paint to make it reflective, but from what I've read it's not something that can easily be applied since the paint rig must keep the glass beads in suspension during the painting process.


Joseph


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## FusionRx

JoesephShaw:


Then there is always this stuff: http://www.amesresearch.com/reflect.htm


----------



## JosephShaw

Excellent. That gallon price isn't that bad for white/clear. I wonder what the difference would be between them for a screen coating application.


Joseph


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## mmmkam

Ruben,


Any thoughts on how the other available colors would perform in order to make a higher contrast screen?


----------



## CollinViegas

Sandman, I dont know if this was asked but I really like the carpet in your renders. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to tell me where you are getting it from?


Thanks in advance.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, I dont know if this was asked but I really like the carpet in your renders. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to tell me where you are getting it from?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Thanks, I'm tyring to decide which direction to run the lines in the room. There are 2 renders with 2 different directions, if anyone cares to comment.


The carpet is made by Masland and it's called the Quadrate.
http://www.maslandcarpets.com/ 


Ruben


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## CollinViegas

I like the looks of the carpet running down, like it is in the chairs render. So that is my vote.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JosephShaw* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you're talking about the 3M Scotchlite liquid paint, they no longer sell it, at least in the US. They still make the beads to add to paint to make it reflective, but from what I've read it's not something that can easily be applied since the paint rig must keep the glass beads in suspension during the painting process.
> 
> 
> Joseph



I am sure you are right. I used to work at 3M and if I remember correctly it is made up of glass beads where one half of the bead is relective. This is what gives you the reflection from many angles. You never can tell, or control, how the beads line up when applied in regards to which side of the bead ends up where.


Joe


----------



## dreamhost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's around $20+ a Yard and comes in 63", 83" and 98" widths x 30 Yard Rolls.
> 
> So Yes, you can make that 160" diagonal for under $100.00 of course you would need to build your frame as well, but I have a resource for that too if You Need it.
> 
> If You want THX certified, you can buy a THX Plaque on eBay.



Thank you for the information, I ordered large sample sizes from an online site that should arrive by the end of the week. I am curious though, the company I found only goes upto 55" with no seam yet you talk of much larger sizes with no seams. Could you post where you found such large sizes, or send a pm?


thank you.


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX

Updates:


I saw Buds thread and said "let me get back to work". So today we finished the screen wall and front stage sidewalls. We will build the Prosceniums for the stage tomorrow and get the rest of the electrical work done.


Then we will begin the screen frame. I may do a curved screen, that is still up in the air as of right now.


Here is some shots...















































This is NOT the screen material. This is a wrinkled dirty sheet...

I took this shot with the camera up against the ceiling.

You Gotta Love Jessica Alba


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates:
> 
> 
> 
> You Gotta Love Jessica Alba



You said a mouthful there.


2.35:1 looks great. I think you will be happy with that choice


----------



## SmX

Come on Guys, I need your help!


I'm about to schedule my carpet installation and want your opinions on the orientation of it.


Which direction do you think the lines should be running in the theater?




















This is a better shot of the carpet











Thanks

Ruben


----------



## chiabob

I vote for front to back.


----------



## Big Worms

Awesome work Ruben! My vote for the carpet is the one that faces the screen (front to back).


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


I know this may seem weird, but have you considered running the lines on the diagonal? This can make your space appear larger and not lock you into a "straight" patterned look. It works great with tile


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


What exact GOM fabric did you use on your soffits and around your screen? I like the look of the weave on yours but it does not seem to match any of the GOM samples I have now. Is the one you selected accoustically transparent to put in from of speakers?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> What exact GOM fabric did you use on your soffits and around your screen? I like the look of the weave on yours but it does not seem to match any of the GOM samples I have now. Is the one you selected accoustically transparent to put in from of speakers?



That's just the Regular FR703 in Black. I got it from fabricmate.com

It is accoustically transparent. I have to tell you though, their runs vary, so when you buy your GoM make sure you buy enough or the next run may be off in color and weave. It happened to me with the Black. The Star Ceiling is a different weave and Black than everything else.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman:


When I talked to my carpet guy he indicated that the Quadrate pattern is best with seams running parallel with the ribs and the highlight color. So based on your room where were they planning the seams might suggest an orientation.


----------



## J-dubb16

I like the front to back with the carpet, your second pic. I think it gives the room a directionaliy factor towards that custom-made, heavily researched screen. In Architecture, it is always good to provide a linear element that gets you to a focal point.


J-dubb


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys, I also want to add that I am trying different Painting options with this weaved material as well. I posted this in my other thread a while back in the DIY Screen Section but never posted It in here. I am experimenting with different metallic silver paints to get that extra intense imaging.
> 
> 
> I just got a PM from Alan Gouger and he said if I can find the right Platinum/Silver Paint to use with this material, that I would have found my Dream Screen. Does anyone here know about this Platinum Paint that Stewart uses on there screens?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


You might want to try the Behr paint that everyone seems to use. I'm not exactly sure of the color, it might be called "silver screen". If you do a search on " Behr Silver screen" you get a lot of threads that talk about it.


Carpet direction: I like this way. The other direction would look funny near the curved stage.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman:
> 
> 
> When I talked to my carpet guy he indicated that the Quadrate pattern is best with seams running parallel with the ribs and the highlight color. So based on your room where were they planning the seams might suggest an orientation.



Thanks DC,


Did they give you a better quote on the carpet yet?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You said a mouthful there.
> 
> 
> 2.35:1 looks great. I think you will be happy with that choice



I just want to chew on her cheek


----------



## ronnie_jackson

My vote is front to back as pictured with the chairs.


Ronnie


----------



## SmX

Thanks for All your Suggestions guys. My original intentions were to run the lines from front to back. But once I saw Chirpies renders, I liked that too.


I think the carpet comes in 12 foot widths and my room is 15 feet wide. So I guess the seam will run down the middle of the Room and Up the Steps and on the Stage and same for the platform. Does that sound common?


Test_Engineer

I will give it a try. But I heard Platinum is the ultimate solution. Tryg "the screen test Guru" is going to try out some options with it as well. He is suppose to call me soon.


Ruben


----------



## Frank D

Regarding carpet orientation both look very nice but front to back would be my first choice too.


Not sure how a pro would carpet it. If you have properly installed seems it should not matter. Alternatively you can run the carpet 12 feet in the centre and then maybe put a 1.5 foot solid black or red boarder all around.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Alternatively you can run the carpet 12 feet in the centre and then maybe put a 1.5 foot solid black or red boarder all around.



I was thinking the same thing. That might be interesting.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


I agree with Frank D. et al on the front to back, but better yet like Frank says, the border in black to match the overhang of the soffits. Sounds like another Chirpie special.


Bud


----------



## SmX

Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



I too am interested here, hopefully someone responds.


I am probably going to make mine but they wont stay out year round and will be made out of pro audio drivers like Bands use


----------



## SVonhof

Mark, how much space between you and your closest neighbor? I ask because the professional grade drivers are made for max SPL. Sound quality and high SPL don't always mix and what happens lots of times is that the pro drivers are not able to go as low as we normally want for home theater. Also, they are made for very large spaces and take more room for the sound to develop properly.


As for good outdoor speakers, I really don't know, since none seem to hold up for years and years unless they are shielded from the sun and elements. I would reccomend some of the rock speakers for the fact that some of them anyway allow the drivers to be very protected. Another option, but not really good for doing high volumes would be some of those green omni-directional speakers that you put half-way into the ground. They make subs the same way to compliment the mains if needed.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Good outdoor speakers?


Reminds me of a interview that Bruce Willis gave on one of the late night shows after just making it big and buying a hollywood hills home. Apparently his neighbors had been complaining about his loud music.


He had some work done to the backyard and construction was underway for a pool house and cabana. A neighbor inquired if he was building a pool house and he replied No, just building some more speakers.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Come on Guys, I need your help!
> 
> 
> I'm about to schedule my carpet installation and want your opinions on the orientation of it.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Is there a dimension of the room that you feel you would have liked to have longer? Either the width or the length of the room? If so, you could use the direction of the carpet to make that dimension "feel" longer than it really is.


Kind of like how vertical stripes on a short person makes them look taller (My wife is 5.1" tall)


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates:
> 
> 
> 
> This is NOT the screen material. This is a wrinkled dirty sheet...
> 
> 
> I took this shot with the camera up against the ceiling.
> 
> You Gotta Love Jessica Alba



A wrinkled _DIRTY_ sheet? Thank God you have not installed a black light!! Ewww










What movie is that scene from?


Joe


----------



## david_pflanzer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben




I highly recommend RBH's AWS-6. They are much better than the Bose 151's and have survived the last four years outside in the hot, humid and rainy weather we have here in Tampa.

http://www.rbhsound.com/aws6.shtml 


Maybe I am a little biased since I am a dealer for their products but at an MSRP of $349/pr you can't go wrong.


I've even done lanai/patio installations using them in a 5.1 configuration with an in-wall sub.


David.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mark, how much space between you and your closest neighbor? I ask because the professional grade drivers are made for max SPL. Sound quality and high SPL don't always mix and what happens lots of times is that the pro drivers are not able to go as low as we normally want for home theater. Also, they are made for very large spaces and take more room for the sound to develop properly.



About a half a mile give or take on the neighbors. Achieving sound quality outside could turn into another 100K responces on this thread and never find the answer.


The problem with moving a theater outside for poolside fun is that you can go huge with the screen but unless you go pro audio, your sound with no reflections or anything but air & grass sounds small and brighter than heck. I know the Clark Synthesis Tactile Transducers work as outdoor speakers but they have to be mounted to a structure like a deck or in the swimming pool to work but strange enough sound pretty good. If your placing them in the pool they have to be the underwater variety of course.


Take a pair of 20K speakers and stick them out in the open spaces and they just sound like horse pucky when sitting a good distance from them.


I hope someone comes up with something other than a boombox here , maybe Davids brand are the ticket, I would like to demo a set locally.


----------



## rm1759

I have had great results from my trusty B&W LM-1's on my patio. I live on the intracoastal here in St. Petersburg, FL, and they have held up great for the last 3 years, with no sign of sound deterioration. They are on a covered patio, but it is open all the way to the water. I have already had one cooking grill rust away in the same time, but the B&W's appear to be holding up very well so far...


Ruben, you might want a higher quality speaker, but for me, the LM-1's have worked very well, and they weren't terribly expensive ($150 ea). My opinion always was that if they did fail in 5 years or so, i can always buy new ones... I do not know if you can still get this line, but if not surely there are some to be had on e-bay...


----------



## dhp10




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone here recommend a good outdoor weatherproof Speaker?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



In order to fill my poolside area (60' x 50') with quality sound, I opted to go with an outdoor commercial solution, than the typical "stuff" you can purchase at CC or BB.

I use 2 Electro-Voice EVID 6.2's with an EVID 12.1 powered subwoofer.


I have had great luck with this configuration & the beauty is you don't need to crank them up to get great sound & fill the area. However, with any outdoor audio application, it becomes difficult to compete with Mother Nature's massive open space. A home theater configuration would probably require many more strategically placed speakers.


This Thread Rocks!!! Great Job Sandman!


----------



## skyman00

Joe-

That's Jessica Alba in "Into the Blue". She's so hot! -j


----------



## skyman00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates:



This picture is a good example of an optical illusion.

If you look real close, you'll find a guy, a home theater and some tools in it as well. -j


----------



## krasmuzik

Jessica Alba direction? Certainly front and back. Why are you all talking about carpet?


----------



## bpape

The carpet would look good either way - as long as Jessica is on it...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skyman00* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This picture is a good example of an optical illusion.
> 
> If you look real close, you'll find a guy, a home theater and some tools in it as well. -j



If you look real close, you'll see the guy's hand on her ass.


----------



## skyman00




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you look real close, you'll see the guy's hand on her ass.



That Paul Walker's one lucky guy.


----------



## BFauska

Ruben,


You might try some JBL control series speakers. Control 25 and Control 30 speakers are nice full range without being too big. You might still want a sub. If they have Guitar Center in FL, you could probably audition them there. I have used them in pro audio situations many times and like the sound, they are made in an all-weather housing and when I was living in Sacramento I noticed that the state fairgrounds were outfitted with them so I know they can take the outdoor enviroment.


Later,

Brian


----------



## CollinViegas

Sandman what color of Red GOM fabric did you use? Thanks again for your help.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman what color of Red GOM fabric did you use? Thanks again for your help.



Hi Collin,


I been getting a Few PMs asking about the colors I used as well. So here are all the colors I used...


Guilford of Maine FR-701

Color: 418 Claret Accent











Guilford of Maine FR-701

Color: 408 Black











Wood: Red Oak

Colors: See Below











Ruben


----------



## SmX

Updates:


Well today we got most of the Electrical finished up. We got the grafik Eye installed and all the Zones hooked up. If you building a theater or any type of media room, the Grafik Eye is a must Have. We have 6 different light Zones in Our theater and and with the push of a single buttton, all the lights adjust to where you want them.


So our 6 Zones are..


1) Stage Lights

2) Soffit Lights

3) Tray Lights

4) Star Ceiling

5) Step Lights

6) Future Sconce Lights (if any)


The Grafik Eye has 4 Scenes meaning here is what I set up So far.

Scene 1 (Button 1) All Lights raise on to full brightness for walk in.

Scene 2 (Button 2) The Stage Lights slowly dim to off, the column lights Dim to low, the Star ceiling dims to Low, tray lights Dim to low, step Lights come on for Movie viewing.


I will set more scenes up as well. This will all be controlled by remote. So when I hit play movie, the lights Dim movie curtain opens (If I use them) etc.


Here are some pictures...


Remember all those messy wires in the columns? Damn, never Mind the wires, remember those columns







?











Here they are now...











Here is a column that a Surround will go in. The surrounds requie an outlet to power the panels so all the outlets in my columns are wired to the Monster Power Conditioner.











Here is a close up of the grafik Eye. This will be inside a column and will never touched after its set. The cover is open on it.











Here it is with the cover closed...











Here is how the wiring looks inside it for 6 zones...











Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys, I got my carpet ordered today thanks to everyone here helping me make up my mind.


The carpet place originally sent a guy out to my place to measure and he came up with 56 Yards. I thought he was way off. So I found out they wanted me to pay for 23 yards of waste which would of been $828 extra. So we did the measurements ourselfs and figured a way to do the room with only 2 yards of waste.


So it goes to show you, if you don't watch your back, these carpet people will eat you alive. So they had me sign off on the amount of carpet I ordered. It ended up being that I only needed 33 square yards and they were saying I needed 56 square yards.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Folks,


I am looking for another projector for outside. I don't really care about a HD picture and all that, I just need something halfway clear and Cheap that's bright enough to do a 98" x 230" 2.35:1 (250" Diagonal) screen.


Any Suggestions?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

When are you going to stop? next you'll be wanting a WW2 surpus search light to put in the drive way as a beacon for your friends to find the house.


I'm just just jealous that I haven't got my carpet in at your price yet.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When are you going to stop? next you'll be wanting a WW2 surpus search light to put in the drive way as a beacon for your friends to find the house.
> 
> 
> I'm just just jealous that I haven't got my carpet in at your price yet.



LOL!!!


----------



## FusionRx

I would also like to chime in on the EVid's. Great speakers, and superb quality, both build and sound-wise. I happen to know the Global Sales manager, so if anyone is interested in contacting them directly, let me know and I can PM you his contact info.


----------



## david_pflanzer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> 
> I am looking for another projector for outside. I don't really care about a HD picture and all that, I just need something halfway clear and Cheap that's bright enough to do a 98" x 230" 2.35:1 (250" Diagonal) screen.
> 
> 
> Any Suggestions?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben




My outdoor screen is 14ft diag (168") and I use an Optoma EP739 (2500 Lumens), but you may want to consider the EP758 (3000 Lumens) or EP759 (3500 Lumens). The first can be found for around $1200.


These are all XGA DLP Projectors with native 4x3 aspect ratio but I project at 16x9. You will have a difficult time finding any affordable DLP projector with a high lumen rating and > than XGA resolution. And for that size you want high lumens (and because it is outdoors).



David.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates:
> 
> 
> Well today we got most of the Electrical finished up.



Have you had someone look at the wiring from a code perspective? I don't want to necessarily set off any alarms cause it is hard to tell from the pictures but the mixture of 12guage and 14guage that you have I am pretty sure would not be in code in MN.


Joe


----------



## mmmkam

Ruben,


Couple of question on the GE install.


1) Did you use the 1 or 2 box wiring method?


2) Is that the plastic 4 gang retrofit box that you used to mount it in?


3) Was it much of a pain to get it all stuffed in there?


That looks like the same box I roughed in and I used the one box install method, but haven't ordered the GE yet.


Thanks again for all the great info. Looks like you are in the home stretch


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you had someone look at the wiring from a code perspective? I don't want to necessarily set off any alarms cause it is hard to tell from the pictures but the mixture of 12guage and 14guage that you have I am pretty sure would not be in code in MN.
> 
> 
> Joe



Everything is up to code here in FL. My worker was an electrician out here for 7 years. You can Mix 12, 14 or any Other guage up to 15 amps. Over 15 amps it must be all 12 or better.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Couple of question on the GE install.
> 
> 
> 1) Did you use the 1 or 2 box wiring method?
> 
> 
> 2) Is that the plastic 4 gang retrofit box that you used to mount it in?
> 
> 
> 3) Was it much of a pain to get it all stuffed in there?
> 
> 
> That looks like the same box I roughed in and I used the one box install method, but haven't ordered the GE yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all the great info. Looks like you are in the home stretch



1) We used a single box method


2) Thats the plastic 4 gang box.


3) Not if you keep everything cut to the proper lengths and organized.


----------



## darkman2003

As always great job Ruben !!!


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, when is the blue tape coming off the columns?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, when is the blue tape coming off the columns?



We picked up a smaller air brush today to do those grooves before the tape melts to the columns. Well anyway, its all done now and the tape is off!










Finally.


----------



## MaximAvs

Ruben...


I'm not deffending the carpet guys, cause I know they tend to ream ya if your not paying attention, but I know that if you buy a carpet with a pattern, a lot of stores will require more sf so they can be sure they can match the pattern. I think 35 yds is a little much, but some would be fair.


Sean


----------



## mmmkam




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We picked up a smaller air brush today to do those grooves before the tape melts to the columns. Well anyway, its all done now and the tape is off!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally.



We arn't going to take your word for it.... you need to post updated pics.


----------



## david_pflanzer

You have a PM.


David.


----------



## SmX

Updates:


Well today we finished up the electrical work.


Installed the Motorized curtain track (that I feel I got cheated on). When I opened up the Track box, the track was a skinny, wimpsy, cheap white track with a small BTX Motor. When I ordered a BTX track in NY, they delivered me a real nice heavy duty Track with 2 nice big BTX Motors. I think you can get this same track (generic name) on eBay for $150. I paid $550.00 for the BTX name.


We installed the Equipment Rack.


We also thoroughly cleaned the theater out so Its ready for the Carpet people next week.


I ordered my perforated metal Grils for the Columns to go under the GoM for extra Support. Cost was $350.00 for 6 25" x 44" perforated steel sheets with a 41% openness.


The Prosceniums still need to be made. We are going to wait for the carpet before we install them. We did get all our wood painted Black for them though.


And Yes, Finally, we painted the grooves on the columns and Removed the blue tape.


So Here are the Pictures:


Here is the Equipment Rack without the Wood Trim and with the service track Attached. Those are some of the custom rack shelves installed for the Amps and other equipment I have thats not rackmountable. Maybe this Weekend I will start hooking up the equipment in there...











The Rack Rolls out..











And Rotates in both directions so you can access the wires in the back. The rack is made by Middle Atlantic and Costs about $800.00 with the service track.




















Here are some theater shots so Far...


That openening is where my Curved 2.35:1 Audio transparent Screen will be hanging and my 2 Main speakers, center channel and Sub will be in there too. You can see some of the treatments on the wall behind the screen wall. That is all 4" Cotton, the bottom 2 Feet gets paper faced and I will be GoMing that wall behind the screen as well.






































Enjoy!


----------



## CollinViegas

I am extremely jelous...lol


It's looking amazing, At the end of the entire project would you mind putting up a ballpark price for the enitre room minus equipment from start to finish?


Thanks in advance and enjoy your little slice of heaven.


----------



## KWhite

Looks like with a little more practice you may be getting the hang of this home theater building thing.....just kidding, awsome work, just awsome.


----------



## mmmkam

Fantastic work as always. Keep it up your almost there.


----------



## Tukkis

Ruben, you have a PM


----------



## FusionRx

So have you run a personal beer tap to each chair as well?


----------



## charlesB

fantastic!! I look foward to more pics


----------



## miltimj

Man, finally caught up to the end of your thread.. It's looking phenomenal.. I'm going to point my wife to this thread as soon as you get a few pics up of the carpet installed.. And I'm incredibly relieved (strange but true) that you chose 2.35:1 as I don't think there's really any other way to go with a theater such as yours.


As I've been learning about dedicated HTs (especially the past two years) in preparation for mine, it seems that what I find in others' ideas I've picked and chosen, and your theater is almost exactly it. The only differences at this point being that it's in your garage, I don't think you're using tactile transducers (unless I missed that part, in which case ignore that comment







), and I want to be able to access the back of my rack without pulling it out. I also was planning on standard rectangular columns though I really love the look of the round columns now. I'm just not sure how proficient I can be with veneer and whether it'd look like crap if I tried it and it didn't work very well. I'm quite handy if I can be shown how to do something, but am not sure I can learn something like that "remotely" (shown via pictures and explanation), similar to how it's a bit more difficult to explain drywall mudding and copper soldering without actually having someone there to show you (just trying to think of some examples).


Awesome, awesome job Ruben. Keep up the phenomenal work, and I look forward to more pictures! (and so does my wife.. she just doesn't know it yet







)


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darkman2003* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As always great job Ruben !!!



Thanks man, it's real nice to finally see this come close to the end.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MaximAvs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben...
> 
> 
> I'm not deffending the carpet guys, cause I know they tend to ream ya if your not paying attention, but I know that if you buy a carpet with a pattern, a lot of stores will require more sf so they can be sure they can match the pattern. I think 35 yds is a little much, but some would be fair.
> 
> 
> Sean



Hi Sean,


Yes, I was aware that there needs to be a bit of waste when doing patterned carpets. But these guys were really trying to take me for a ride.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We arn't going to take your word for it.... you need to post updated pics.




I posted Them


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[email protected]* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You have a PM.
> 
> 
> David.



I just Responded to your PM.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am extremely jelous...lol
> 
> 
> It's looking amazing, At the end of the entire project would you mind putting up a ballpark price for the enitre room minus equipment from start to finish?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance and enjoy your little slice of heaven.



Thanks Collin for your compliments.


I already posted expenses about 10 pages or so Back for all the construction.

But I will try to re-tally everything once done.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KWhite* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like with a little more practice you may be getting the hang of this home theater building thing.....just kidding, awsome work, just awsome.



I'm trying to look as good as these other pro's here on AVS.










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mmmkam* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fantastic work as always. Keep it up your almost there.



Thanks mmmkam,


Believe it or not, the projector is hung and I haven't tried to watch a movie in there yet, Besides a little testing. Since I had a theater in my last home (nothing like this) I already know what to expect as far as the enjoyment of Your own personal theater.


For a person That never had a theater in their home before, they get real anxious to want to watch a movie and then never finish the job. But I personally reversed that, I'm real anxious to complete the theater then the movies can come next.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tukkis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, you have a PM



I just responded to it.


Thanks


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So have you run a personal beer tap to each chair as well?



Sorry, I hate Beer. I don't drink, though I have plenty of friends that do







One friend asked me to put a Ventilation system in the Theater so he can Smoke in it, can you believe that?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *charlesB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> fantastic!! I look foward to more pics



Thanks, More pictures will come


----------



## Milt99

Ruben,

I know I'm being repetitive with the other admiring posts but your theater really is your vision made real and a damn good one.

What has amazed me is how focused and consistent your progress has been while maintaining meticulous attention to detail considering it's diy, you have a family, you have a business and you had a hurricane.


A couple posts back I think I discovered one of your secrets:


> Quote:
> I don't drink













Earlier you posted that you had a source for the j frame to secure the screen fabric. I'm looking for j frame too and could use some help if you can.

Thanks.


----------



## Tryg

Ruben.


Kudos for a 5 star theater and Thread! You are what makes AVS great.


A couple suggestions.


1. Consider the benefitial properties of a posative gain screen. Having properly imaged audio is important but having the best image is too. I know there is tradeoffs but some of the gain screens clearly outperform nuetral gain ones.


2. This amazing theater deserves a Sony VPL-VW100 (the Ruby). This projector outperforms anything under $50k as far as I'm concerned (easily found for $7500). Bottom line is a 1080p projector will kill a 720p projector. Not to mention it's 3 chip, has Xenon bulb, wider color pallet etc etc etc. Here's My comparison to the Optima H79.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618823 


Good luck and I'll keep folowing this thread.


Thanks again Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, finally caught up to the end of your thread.. It's looking phenomenal.. I'm going to point my wife to this thread as soon as you get a few pics up of the carpet installed.. And I'm incredibly relieved (strange but true) that you chose 2.35:1 as I don't think there's really any other way to go with a theater such as yours.
> 
> 
> As I've been learning about dedicated HTs (especially the past two years) in preparation for mine, it seems that what I find in others' ideas I've picked and chosen, and your theater is almost exactly it. The only differences at this point being that it's in your garage, I don't think you're using tactile transducers (unless I missed that part, in which case ignore that comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), and I want to be able to access the back of my rack without pulling it out. I also was planning on standard rectangular columns though I really love the look of the round columns now. I'm just not sure how proficient I can be with veneer and whether it'd look like crap if I tried it and it didn't work very well. I'm quite handy if I can be shown how to do something, but am not sure I can learn something like that "remotely" (shown via pictures and explanation), similar to how it's a bit more difficult to explain drywall mudding and copper soldering without actually having someone there to show you (just trying to think of some examples).
> 
> 
> Awesome, awesome job Ruben. Keep up the phenomenal work, and I look forward to more pictures! (and so does my wife.. she just doesn't know it yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Thanks Man.


It's funny how the Garage Home Theater craze is blowing up. I have a friend who has an $11 million Home here In south Florida that is coverting his 6 car garage into a Home Theater/Game Room. He was completely blown away when he saw the transformation I did to my garage. He also has a couple Hummers, Benz's, and Beemers and I would of figured he'd want a garage for those. But he decided like me.


So I think I will be helping him Out a bit along the way.










As far as doing a good veneer job, as long as you have a little patience, you can achieve superior results. Its really not a hard thing to do.


I don't understand your question about tactile transducers. Do you mean Butt Kickers on the chairs? If so, I have intentions on doing those. I wired my platform to cover that.


As far as the 2.35:1 decision, I don't know how there could of been any other choice for me. I just didn't do allot of screen Aspect Ratio research when I started building. I'm glad I started reading the 2.35:1 forums and got to understand why 2.35:1 is now so important to me.



Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I know I'm being repetitive with the other admiring posts but your theater really is your vision made real and a damn good one.
> 
> What has amazed me is how focused and consistent your progress has been while maintaining meticulous attention to detail considering it's diy, you have a family, you have a business and you had a hurricane.
> 
> 
> A couple posts back I think I discovered one of your secrets:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earlier you posted that you had a source for the j frame to secure the screen fabric. I'm looking for j frame too and could use some help if you can.
> 
> Thanks.



Nah Man, Thanks. I love the fact that some people here like my taste and appreciate my detail. I seen other theaters here with tons of crown moldings and wood work that I personally don't Care for but others admire as well. I like the more modern clean lines look. Believe me, If I was into the whole dramatic crown molding and wood panels look, I would be sure to make it top notch.


I am happy to say that there isn't anything in the theater I feel I would change, Given the space I had to transform. Even though I made multiple changes throughout the build, I am now glad I did. At least now I can sit in the room that was my complete vision, I can also die in the room and be happy.


In a perfect world, If I could change anything about the room It would be, a separate room for Equipment with 4 Racks and a larger theater room maybe 20' x 30' x 10'.


As far as the J-Frame resource, I will let you know in a few days when I get some samples in.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tryg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 2. This amazing theater deserves a Sony VPL-VW100 (the Ruby). This projector outperforms anything under $50k as far as I'm concerned (easily found for $7500). Bottom line is a 1080p projector will kill a 720p projector. Not to mention it's 3 chip, has Xenon bulb, wider color pallet etc etc etc.



I wonder why Mr. Poindexters near million dollar theater build has a 720P Digital Projections Mercury HD being installed instead of a Ruby, granted the Merc HD is twice the cost of the Ruby, but saying the Ruby would kill any 720P with its nearly 3K bulb replacement and outperforming " anything" under 50K may be a stretch that should be left in the PJ forums. There are some folks on this forum that have passed on the Ruby and went for 720P for a reason.


I do strongly agree with your recomendation of reconsidering a gain screen though, little samples can be deceiving. It would be nice to have local places to observe the difference. We have a place here in Portland where you can see the difference between a Screen Research and the Stewart line


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tryg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben.
> 
> 
> Kudos for a 5 star theater and Thread! You are what makes AVS great.
> 
> 
> A couple suggestions.
> 
> 
> 1. Consider the benefitial properties of a posative gain screen. Having properly imaged audio is important but having the best image is too. I know there is tradeoffs but some of the gain screens clearly outperform nuetral gain ones.
> 
> 
> 2. This amazing theater deserves a Sony VPL-VW100 (the Ruby). This projector outperforms anything under $50k as far as I'm concerned (easily found for $7500). Bottom line is a 1080p projector will kill a 720p projector. Not to mention it's 3 chip, has Xenon bulb, wider color pallet etc etc etc. Here's My comparison to the Optima H79.
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618823
> 
> 
> Good luck and I'll keep folowing this thread.
> 
> 
> Thanks again Ruben



Tryg, The Screen test Guru. Thanks for all your knowledge.

Knowing people like you and BPape is what makes one have the perfect theater.

After talking to you today on the phone, you got Me wanting to eBay my unused Optoma H-79 and getting the Ruby. I will spend this weekend reading up on the Ruby and make a final decision from there. I didn't realize the Ruby buried the Optoma like you said and being that it's 1080 and twice as bright, it should hold it's weight for a while.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder why Mr. Poindexters near million dollar theater build has a 720P Digital Projections Mercury HD being installed instead of a Ruby, granted the Merc HD is twice the cost of the Ruby, but saying the Ruby would kill any 720P with its nearly 3K bulb replacement and outperforming " anything" under 50K may be a stretch that should be left in the PJ forums. There are some folks on this forum that have passed on the Ruby and went for 720P for a reason.



This is a very Good question Mark.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As far as doing a good veneer job, as long as you have a little patience, you can achieve superior results. Its really not a hard thing to do.
> 
> 
> I don't understand your question about tactile transducers. Do you mean Butt Kickers on the chairs? If so, I have intentions on doing those. I wired my platform to cover that.



That's encouraging. I'll be reading and re-reading your instructions to hopefully get it done right.. One other thing I'm curious about, if you can provide information for past and future items, is where you go to find certain things that may not be commonplace. (Studs are common place, veneer not necessarily, IMO)


Yes, tactile transducers are Buttkickers.. (buttkickers are just a brand/model name) Glad to hear you planned for that (though it doesn't surprise me)


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is a very Good question Mark.



Actually after I thought about it for a second it was sort of a stupid question, Mr.P is going to have a quite large screen and is a DP dealer so both those points answer that, More appropriate would be to call the owner of this forum and ask his impressions of the Ruby vs Mercury and others on his 2.35:1 that may be the same size as yours Ruben.


----------



## Mark P

As far as Butt kickers go we found that mounted in the chairs felt like massaging recliners on steriods while placing them inside the riser was far more natural and impacting of an experience. Clark Synthesis is another option that is more expensive but a pair of these powers a rather large riser with pretty impressive impact. Before carpeting you may want to do some playing. Too bad your about as far away as it gets , I would let you use some Clarks for some riser testing


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Bear in mind that Tyrg is very enthusiastic about the Ruby, and would often get into debates with people who enjoy DLP. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, mind you, but bear in mind that it is not always shared.


I don't have a dog in the fight, at all, as I have no projectors of any sort. I hope the ruby or anything better is insanely cheap when I am ready to finish my basement, which is looking like it might be a while.


I do think the comparison should be made based on that Alba shot though.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's encouraging. I'll be reading and re-reading your instructions to hopefully get it done right.. One other thing I'm curious about, if you can provide information for past and future items, is where you go to find certain things that may not be commonplace. (Studs are common place, veneer not necessarily, IMO)
> 
> 
> Yes, tactile transducers are Buttkickers.. (buttkickers are just a brand/model name) Glad to hear you planned for that (though it doesn't surprise me)



If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Ruben,


Show your friend with the 11 mill house, Mark P's remodeled area.. I'm sure he could do similar with a 6 car garage. And get him signed up here, I'm sure we'd all be curious what a truly Large dollar remodel would look like (can see it being bigger budget than Mr. P's.)


"I don't drink". Sorry, I should have said a 'chilled beverage tap to each chair'.. ;-)


Anyhow, just a congratulatory note. Fantastic theatre...


BTW, is the Ruby pj the 4k x4k projector that Sony was offering at one point?


----------



## bpape

I've not seen the ruby but have 2 customers (1 in the works now and 1 waiting) that are planning to use the Ruby. They both did a ton of research and said it just blew away everything else. Now, the cost is higher, the bulb is higher, etc.


I can't say personally as I haven't seen it. One of them did say though that he was leaning toward the 79 until he saw the Ruby.


----------



## DanC-P

Ruben,


I PMed you a few days ago about an article I am writing. Please let me know if you didn't get my message.


Thanks!


Dan


----------



## Brian Ravnaas

this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?


check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942 


i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.


Sandman, if i was you i'd drag out the construction process a bit to make sure you geti t...










j/k of course


nice work


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Ravnaas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?
> 
> 
> check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942
> 
> 
> i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.
> 
> 
> Sandman, if i was you i'd drag out the construction process a bit to make sure you geti t...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j/k of course
> 
> 
> nice work



Hey Maybe if My thread gets as big as Teds DIY Speaker thread I can start a Blue Glue Company










But right Now SandmanX is Holding down the #1 position in the Home Theater Construction Forums. Dennis Erskine ain't got nothing on me










But anyway, if Your giving Out cash prizes, I'll take mine now










All Jokes, but Seriously, if I was to post all the pictures and descriptions of building this It would of been another 20 - 30 pages long.


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I you could please PM me with this, as i am in my research stage it would be of great help to me...


Thanks sandman...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben ,



Mark,


Why the hell did they put all the inputs and power cord on the front of the projector? I sat here for an hour trying to figure that out.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DanC-P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I PMed you a few days ago about an article I am writing. Please let me know if you didn't get my message.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Dan



I been getting tons of PMs I might of missed it Got over 100 PMs this week.

Do you want to feature it In PlayBoy or something?


----------



## Z06Racer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you want, I can PM you a Link to my personal Blog where everything is organized and there is allot more photos and descriptions as well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I would love to see it too.


----------



## Tryg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bear in mind that Tyrg is very enthusiastic about the Ruby, and would often get into debates with people who enjoy DLP. Nothing wrong with having a strong opinion, mind you, but bear in mind that it is not always shared.



I'm not going to get into any arguements here but I will review some facts.


1. The Ruby is the first projector EVER on AVS to get its own forum. It also outposted the >3500 forum, which contained all other projectors. Maybe some people may have some knowledge of these things?


2. I have viewed/reviewed every higher end digital projector available since 1993. This is ~200+ projectors. I may have learned something in the last 13 years?


3. I interact regularly with the best and brightest in the industry.


Yes I'm biased to the Ruby. When someone can show me a production consumer projector at ANY price that beats it I'd be happy to give it my blessing.


Finally dc_pilgrim, I have nothing to gain. There's a unpopularity with my observations here ONLY because there is dealers on AVS that have $$$ at stake. I have no affiliation with any HT business. My opinions have never been purchased. Some of the local dealers that aren't Sony dealers will have to get used to changes in the industry.


----------



## mike_somd

Very nice looking theater. I especially like the color scheme.


a pm of your blog addy would be nice


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> 
> Why the hell did they put all the inputs and power cord on the front of the projector? I sat here for an hour trying to figure that out.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Not sure but I am glad they did in our application, the back has all the projector controls and drops down to expose the fan filters and lamp assembly. This Projector is large and certainly the quietest I have ever heard, in econo mode you have to almost put your ear next to it to see if the fan still runs.


I dont think this projector is meant so much for a normal sized room with a 8'-10' screen It has no troubles with 20' screens from what I gather and somewhere in the manual I thought I saw something about 250" or 500" screen. Its been awhile since I read it but it was huge. Maybe someone can chime in but I think these are used for cinemas and large venues. I recall my order taking slightly longer to get because some bigtime outfit ( Disney or someone like that) bought 50 of them at the same time we placed our order.


I think the majority of them are located behind a wall in a projection room or equiptment room.


Mr. Poindexter are you out there? Do you know why?


----------



## Marc Ye

Sandman,

Looks great! Keep up the good work. Love your stage.


----------



## theirishgonzo

ihave a benq 8700+ and i love it . i would like to trade it in but i eill wait another couple of years till a 2.35 projector is bought with no extra add ons. also i dont see the need for a butkicker. i have a awsome sub 4 18in subs and rock the house and the house too. i love your theater and i am going to put a star celing in my theater. and i am adding coloms to it to they are square. i do like the color scheme but it would look cool in blue too big fan of blue.


----------



## ebr

Darn you guys... now you've given me the 2.35 CH bug and have me trying to re-design the front of my room to somehow accommodate it. Grrrrrr....


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darn you guys... now you've given me the 2.35 CH bug and have me trying to re-design the front of my room to somehow accommodate it. Grrrrrr....



You Gots to do it.


Its true, like they told me, a 16:9 Movie Screen is just like a big TV and we are making movie theaters here, not Big TVs.


Ruben


----------



## khellandros66









Great job SandmanX.


I would have to say that this is the 1# helpful thread out there, I will always use this as a reference, esp when it comes a time for me to build my own dedicated theater. As for now school is the priorty.


I have seen what the 720 LCD Sony (few tiers below the Ruby) in action and must say the auto iris makes a phenominal picture, closest thing to a full on cinematic projection system.


As for others, I would wish atleast some company to come out witha line of 2.35:1 LCD Displays front 42in and up. Wishfull thinking.


~Bob


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Ravnaas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?
> 
> 
> check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942
> 
> 
> i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.
> 
> 
> Sandman, if i was you i'd drag out the construction process a bit to make sure you geti t...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j/k of course
> 
> 
> nice work



Both threads are a looong way from some of the longest:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...esc&sort=views 


And I'm not even sure if those are the longest..


----------



## miltimj

Agreed, Bob. I even think it's sticky worthy..


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brian Ravnaas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> this thread has a shot at the AVS record, doesn't it? does anybody know what the AVS record is?
> 
> 
> check this one out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=170942
> 
> 
> i think (maybe?) Ted White of Audio Alloy notoriety might hold the record, but at the rate this thread is going, that'll fall in a month or two.



Brian, I sent a message to Dave Bott one time to let him know that the DIY speaker thread that you linked above has been going for a long time, but he said there were others that had been going way longer than that. Don't know if that's still the case though.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tryg, The Screen test Guru. Thanks for all your knowledge.
> 
> Knowing people like you and BPape is what makes one have the perfect theater.
> 
> After talking to you today on the phone, you got Me wanting to eBay my unused Optoma H-79 and getting the Ruby. I will spend this weekend reading up on the Ruby and make a final decision from there. I didn't realize the Ruby buried the Optoma like you said and being that it's 1080 and twice as bright, it should hold it's weight for a while.
> 
> 
> Also Folks, I sent Tryg some screen samples of the weaves I liked so he can put them to the test. It will be intersting to see what results he comes up with when A & B to Screen Research and Vutecs sound Screens. So hopefully you Post the results here or start a new thread and let us know Tryg.
> 
> 
> I will call you later.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



OMG, OMG, OMG. This is absolutely perfect!!! I had already settled on the Ruby after seeing it and now, no offense Ruben, we will get Tryg's opinion on the screen material? Absolutely OUTSTANDING!!!!


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darn you guys... now you've given me the 2.35 CH bug and have me trying to re-design the front of my room to somehow accommodate it. Grrrrrr....



Same boat baby!! Got an oar?







I'm going 2.35!!


----------



## Mark P

I have created a monster, look out 2.35:1 Constant Image height Forums, here comes the stampede!


By the way Panamorph or Isco, whats my cut if they choose to go anamorphic lens?


All you going this route will be excited when you see it for the first time full resolution in all its glory, your friends wil chit twinkies


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have created a monster, look out 2.35:1 Constant Image height Forums, here comes the stampede!
> 
> 
> By the way Panamorph or Isco, whats my cut if they choose to go anamorphic lens?
> 
> 
> All you going this route will be excited when you see it for the first time full resolution in all its glory, your friends wil chit twinkies



Talk about excitement. Ruby, 2.35:1, and pretty soon I will know what screen material to get.










Now, if my builder would hurry up and get done with my wife's laundry room I would be extatic. HT is next on the list!!!


Joe


----------



## Mark P

One thing about the Ruby, it would be catchy in Rubens theater.


Ruby Ruben, Ruben Ruby, sounds like a hit song from the fiftys or sixtys


----------



## CollinViegas

What size of screen are going for Ruben, I was all set to buy the ruby about a month ago and use it with a 120'' ClearPix2 but everyone in the hi-end projector forum said that the Ruby did not put out enough lumens to have a watchable picture on a microperf bigger than 100'' and that was with a new bulb.


This is just something to consider, I would hate to see you spend so much money on a projector that was too dim for your liking.


I will say I have seen the Ruby set up on a 92'' StudioTek and it looked awesome, only problem is 92'' inches is WAY to small for me.


----------



## ebr

I'm thinking I'm going to try the 2.35 thing without the lens first.


I know, I know, I won't be using the "full resolution" of the projector for 2.35 material. However, I will still have the large true widescreen experience and even at 2.35 it will still be higher resolution than any 720p projector (about 816p for 2.35).


Anyway, its worth a shot as it eliminates a lot of cost (scaler and lens), complexity and potential image distortions/imperfections (unless you spend as much on the scaler/lens as the ruby itself).


So, I want to go CH 2.35 on my screen, but I'm gonna try the poor man's route first.


----------



## SmX

Yeah Guys,


I did allot of Reading for the past 2 days and I am now realizing The Ruby may not be for me. Allot of people seem to be complaining about it's brightness on non gain screens and how it delivers a softer picture than a DLP and The Blacks are not as black as a DLP.


I think I'm gonna hold off for a while and see what happens with the 3 chip DLPs and just work with the H-79 for the meantime.


Lets see what this year brings us. It's only an upgrade away.


----------



## ebr

Sandman - I agree the Ruby may not be for you (due to your desired screen size) but that's the first I've heard that the blacks are lacking. The blacks are supposedly the major advantage of this projector.


On another note - if anyone has found an online source for the raw sheerweave 4000 material, can you please PM me? I have found some shade companies but you have to buy a shade and, in the size I need, you start getting to $200+. TIA


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - I agree the Ruby may not be for you (due to your desired screen size) but that's the first I've heard that the blacks are lacking. The blacks are supposedly the major advantage of this projector.



Sorry guys, Let Me correct That, The Blacks were not as good as C3X LITE.

But that is a $6k more expensive PJ.


I did too much late night reading, I don't want to mislead anyone here.


----------



## Brian Ravnaas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Maybe if My thread gets as big as Teds DIY Speaker thread I can start a Blue Glue Company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But right Now SandmanX is Holding down the #1 position in the Home Theater Construction Forums. Dennis Erskine ain't got nothing on me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But anyway, if Your giving Out cash prizes, I'll take mine now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All Jokes, but Seriously, if I was to post all the pictures and descriptions of building this It would of been another 20 - 30 pages long.
> 
> 
> Ruben



yep, like Fleetwood Mac in 1977 - top of the charts


about the cash prize, i bet those 20-30 pages of pictures may indeed be worth a cash prize... make quite a book for quite a booming (and growing) market - HT's, that is.


or a collaboration of theaters from many of you gents that have put up these big, informative threads. i can't imagine that such a book wouldn't find some market... a few different takes on theaters from a construction, style, equipment, etc. perspective. Or just one, showing all the insane work that goes into it, and how it can be done, etc. and so on. There must be 10's of thousands of DIY theaters each year...


----------



## mbkintner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On another note - if anyone has found an online source for the raw sheerweave 4000 material, can you please PM me? I have found some shade companies but you have to buy a shade and, in the size I need, you start getting to $200+. TIA



Instead of a PM to ebr post it in this thread. I'm sure plenty of people would like to know.


Mike


----------



## mbkintner

Ruben,


I know you're experimenting with painting the ShearWeave material. Have you done any research on the DIY paint mixes talked about in the DIY Screen Section of AVS? I don't know much about the mixes but I suspect that with as much research as individuals do into paint mixes anything there would be a better option than regular paint. Some of the mixes you can have made for you and some of them are sold by forum members. Goo Systems might be an option as well.


Mike


----------



## Tryg

The Ruby is much brighter than the H79.


I would recommend a Higher Gain screen for both.


The H79 has a better built in scaler for constant height setups, the Ruby would need some type of external scaling. Nothing your HTPC couldn't handle. Theatertek?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbkintner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I know you're experimenting with painting the ShearWeave material. Have you done any research on the DIY paint mixes talked about in the DIY Screen Section of AVS? I don't know much about the mixes but I suspect that with as much research as individuals do into paint mixes anything there would be a better option than regular paint. Some of the mixes you can have made for you and some of them are sold by forum members. Goo Systems might be an option as well.
> 
> 
> Mike



Yeah, I tried a few recommendations in there and they all sucked on the weave. I was talking to Tryg and told me to try the Pearlessent and not to worry about the silver metallic paints with the weave.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tryg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Ruby is much brighter than the H79.
> 
> 
> I would recommend a Higher Gain screen for both.
> 
> 
> The H79 has a better built in scaler for constant height setups, the Ruby would need some type of external scaling. Nothing your HTPC couldn't handle. Theatertek?



Hey Tryg,


Yeah, I'm using TheaterTek 2.2 with ffdshow and dscaler Postprocessing.

I figured I will wait a bit and see what is on the horizon.


In the meantime, I will use this weave and if I want to upgrade in the future and move my speakers wider apart I will go with a Solid screen. The way I see it Now, $5,000 Acoustically Transparent Weeved Screens are not messing with this Weeve I sent you, but I will let you be the judge of that.


Either way, I liked what I saw in this weeve material and will be using it as my Accoustically Transparent Screen until I go solid (if I go solid). Also, who knows what these pearlessence paints will bring to the table.


Ruben


----------



## documentarymaker

Gentlemen -

I found this source for the Phifer material...I've sent an email requesting a quote but as of yet have not heard back...I'll keep everyone posted...


Kevin -
rollershades.com


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## ebr

But, here's the problem there:



> Quote:
> Pricing Note: Shaded area on the price chart indicates that fabric will be railroaded. 73"+ height will show horizontal seam near top.



The referenced shading starts over 55" in width and, as it states, over 73" in length. So, it doesn't appear you can buy a piece large enough to make the whole screen without a seam.


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## r00ster




> Quote:
> But if enough people are interested in trying this out, I can order one big roll and ship out screens for everyone (at a cost obviously). I would just have to figure out the best way to ship it and package it. I would most likely get 98" seamless widths and cut to custom lengths. So that way a 98" x 230" 2.35:1 seamless screen would be possible as a maximum size.



I for one would be interested in this!!! As it seems the only way average joes like me can get it is by purchasing a whole shade. Let us know Sandman.


Drew


----------



## miltimj

Without a doubt I am interested in a bulk purchase as well. I've been drooling at the AT screens and knew that I couldn't really allow for it in my budget, so this is worth getting now even though I won't use it for a year (I'd just get a bit extra) for that cost..


My main concern was whether I'd like it the same as you and/or not be satisfied with the PQ due to being AT instead of solid, but the two things that reassure me are that you're very picky about PQ and you've done such an amazing job thus far that I know you would pick the best. (I realize that each situation is difference, but I expect to have a very similar theater.. though not in overall detail I'm sure, but I can at least ensure I get similar dimensions/light control, etc...










Thanks again for the detail in your posts and your research, Ruben.


----------



## GinSonic

Ruben,


Congratulations to Your marvellous hometheater, it's really outstanding ! I would be also highly interested in a bulk purchase, if You don't mind, that I am European (Austria). Many thanks for Your researches too !


Dieter


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## Poops McGee

I too would be interested in the screen material. (Probably around 15-20 feet.)


Also: I sent you a PM asking if you would PM me the address to your blog, but I see now that it may get lost in the massive amount of PMs you get, so I'm asking you here.


Thanks,

Justin


----------



## GinSonic

I would take 20 feet (6m) if possible, because shipping to Austria is quite expensive and is almost the same for a less amount.

BTW, I also use a H79 so our equipment is similar.


Thanks,

Dieter


----------



## CollinViegas

Ruben,


how would you say these materials stack up against the ClearPix2?


Also do you have that link to your construction blog?


Thanks...


----------



## miltimj

I'm guessing you'll have no problem getting enough people to split among 5+ rolls...










Do you think there would be a detrimental effect to leaving it rolled up for a year or two?


Unrelated to the screen, but do you know when your carpet will arrive/be installed?


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX

For everyone that is PMing me and Asking me for a link to my personal blog.


I am in the middle of transferring it to a new blog interface due to the previous software I was using made things complicated for viewers. As soon as the transfer is complete, I will PM everyone the PMed me a Link.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## exipnos

I'm also interrested in material for a large screen. Just as GinSonic, I'm also in Europe and if there are more of us, maybe we can share the shipping charges.


Exipnos


----------



## GinSonic

@exipnos:


No problem, let us talk about it, when Ruben will give his OK to the transaction.

Greetings to lovely France !


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great Guys! This stuff comes in 30 Yard Rolls (90 Feet/30 Meters)
> 
> So we would need enough guys to use up a roll.
> 
> So If we can get 9 guys that want to do 10' or more wide Screens we will be all set.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Count me in!


Now you have me doubting the Ruby







I better do some more reading.


Joe


----------



## Gerry S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great Guys! This stuff comes in 30 Yard Rolls (90 Feet/30 Meters)
> 
> So we would need enough guys to use up a roll.
> 
> So If we can get 9 guys that want to do 10' or more wide Screens we will be all set.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


If this goes down, please count me in for 10'.


Thanks,

Gerry


----------



## JeffinChelsea

Ruben,

Great thread. Count me in as well. I will take 20' if you are able to arrange the bulk purchase.


----------



## ebr

I'm interested in a bulk purchase too since I can't find anywhere (even as a shade) that can make a piece big enough without a seam.


I would need about 48" x 108". Ruben, what do you think the cost will work out to be?


P.S. Is anyone interested in the 2000 material? That looks like it is lower gain but a lot less noticeable on the weave...


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


With the popularity of your screen material purchase, you might want to start up a new thread (another 100K+ hitter, I'm sure)


Bud


----------



## JosephShaw

I'd definitely be interested in 10' or so.


Joseph


----------



## T.Wells

I will also take a 10' length of the material.


-T.Wells


----------



## carlohp

Ruben,


I also would be interested in 30' - 40' of this material, so please let me know about your purchase.



Thanks,

Carlo


----------



## pkarakis

I have been following this thread from the beginning. Very inspiring. If you do the bulk purchase I would be in for 10'.


----------



## HeyNow^

I'll take 10' tooo.....


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

What ever you find works for the H79 I'll experiment on a 10 foot wide 2:35 to compete with my Firehawk so call it 11' for fastening needs.


Put me on a group buy list.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see a problem leaving this material rolled up for that long. After all, Most people use it for roll up shades.



.... Good point.


----------



## richh

if the group buy pans out, i'd be interested in 10 feet.


----------



## Skippard

Being in the same boat as miltimj, at least a year out from needing the screen material, I would be interested in buying the material now. I am planning on a H79 and trust Ruben research completely.


-Skipp


----------



## coastalb55

Hi,

I've been a silent lurker here for a while and have been following this thread.


He transformation of your theater has been inspiring. Your attention to detail is breath-taking. I came across self-closing hinges in my most recent Rockler catalog and thought of your hidden door.


Perhaps this would be a more durable alternative than using rubber bands on your moulding piece. Pnuematic soft-close hinge 


This might be a little late in coming, but it's just a thought.


I look forward to your next update.


Andy


[EDIT] Pictures taken out


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## usualsuspects

Saw this at the bottom of the page: http://www.phifer.com/sheer.htm 


SheerWeave Special Weave Program


Can't find the perfect fabric for your decor? Using the standard warp and fill colors, you can pick your color combination, weave and openness factor, and we will create a fabric perfect for your specific needs. Small minimum runs per pattern and color. Custom openness factors available.


----------



## Andy238

Been following (while drooling







) the progress on your theater, Ruben. Awesome!

Count me in for 12-15 feet for the screen power buy!


Andy


----------



## ScottJ0007

Awesome thread Ruben! Count me in on the phifer material for 4 yards too.

- Scott


----------



## HTScotty

I haven't read all the posts, so I don't know if it's been asked......

Have you goven thought to the wear and tear of two peices of wood sliding on each other? Seems it would wear the finish down pretty quick.


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I remember one of your posts a little bit ago talking about the drapes. I contacted the company that I purchased some from and asked them if they would mind if I posted their information in this thread. Well, they were not only pleased to let me do so but they also told me that they now have a drape for HT purposes.







Here is the little write-up they gave me:

_Details:

Velvet Composition: Top Quality Weaved Velvet 89% Cotton 11% Poly

Weight of Fabric: 480gms./m2


Drape Details:

All Drapes Will be Lined With 100% Fine Cotton Lining.

All Drapes Will be have special Flannel Interlining For Light Insulation and Sound Insulation


Custom Sizes: Can be Ordered and will be priced as per size._


The drapes that I have, without the flannel lining, are amazing for the price. I am excited to see the flannel lined stuff. They also gave me some new wholesale pricing. If you are, or anyone else for that matter, interested in the pricing drop me a PM.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I remember one of your posts a little bit ago talking about the drapes. I contacted the company that I purchased some from and asked them if they would mind if I posted their information in this thread. Well, they were not only pleased to let me do so but they also told me that they now have a drape for HT purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the little write-up they gave me:
> 
> _Details:
> 
> Velvet Composition: Top Quality Weaved Velvet 89% Cotton 11% Poly
> 
> Weight of Fabric: 480gms./m2
> 
> 
> Drape Details:
> 
> All Drapes Will be Lined With 100% Fine Cotton Lining.
> 
> All Drapes Will be have special Flannel Interlining For Light Insulation and Sound Insulation
> 
> 
> Custom Sizes: Can be Ordered and will be priced as per size._
> 
> 
> The drapes that I have, without the flannel lining, are amazing for the price. I am excited to see the flannel lined stuff. They also gave me some new wholesale pricing. If you are, or anyone else for that matter, interested in the pricing drop me a PM.
> 
> 
> Joe



I Talked about Drapes? I must have a bad memory, I don't remember.

I know I was talking about motorized tracks. Hmmm.


----------



## HoMac

I'd be interested in 10' too. Thanks!


----------



## Alan Gouger

Hi Ruben


I know you must be over whelmed. Im curious about the White Platinum. I know its impossible for you to try everything. Wondering if you had a sample of this material.

Im wondering if it does indeed have a metallic luster (gain) to it or if it is just a grey color simulating silver but not giving the same results. Enquiring minds want to know.


Keep up the good work. This is by far the best thread I have followed in a long time. Very educational. Your doing everything right


----------



## ebr

Thanks Sandman - I await your impressions of the other materials.


I have a suggestion for you on the "bulk purchase plan". What do you think about going out and getting a few yds of the two materials you like best and then letting us each paypal you, say $20 (or whatever you think is fair for the cost and your effort), to cut us a 24" x 36" sample and you send it to us. Then we can see and compare for ourselves. OTOH, I don't want to take away from your real project here and turn you into a screen fabric retail shop...so if you want to retract your offer, I would understand.


FYI - I finally found an online source for the raw fabric. Catch is you have to buy a whole roll... http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## ebr

Their web interface is confusing.


Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/...000%202100.asp 


and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/..._4100_4400.asp


----------



## ronnie_jackson

You guys are slowing down his progress with all this screen talk.

























Its killing me not being able to see updates on the theater 5-6 times a day.


Ronnie


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Their web interface is confusing.
> 
> 
> Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/...000%202100.asp
> 
> 
> and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/..._4100_4400.asp



Yup. Took me a while to find these too.


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I Talked about Drapes? I must have a bad memory, I don't remember.
> 
> I know I was talking about motorized tracks. Hmmm.



Sorry. I looked back. It was when you were first looking at 2.35:1 and thinking of using "curtains" to narrow it down when you wanted to use 16x9.


I posted the specifics in the club member deals area.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool, Now everyone can buy a roll for Themselves



Yeah, but what will each of us do with 30 yards of the stuff?


Hmmmm.......


Make a sail for a sail boat? - naw too porous

Make 10,000 fish nets?

Ruben could make a carport cover with it, now that he doesn't have a garage.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys are slowing down his progress with all this screen talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its killing me not being able to see updates on the theater 5-6 times a day.
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Hey Ronnie,


I really cant do much more until the carpet gets installed. That Should be this week sometime. So what better time than now to discuss money saving options?










Ruben


----------



## pinkfreud55

A WEEK WITHOUT PICS. O.M.G.... Here come the withdrawals. Time to go to my imaginary safe place (which happens to look alot the your HT... lol).


PF


----------



## tannerjr

man...I guess I just figured out that I'm addicted! DOH!







PIX PIX PIX










I'm not sure I ever want to start/finish mine now...it's so much fun to read about it, plan it, play w/ ideas...and watch others do the same... yeah...I think I'll build mine like $50 @ a time







yeah


----------



## SmX

Hey, Now You can go check out Chinadogs thread, Switheys Thread, Mark Ps thread or Ronnies thread. I'm sure they got lots more pictures coming to hold you over.


If you want, I can take some extreme close up pictures of the Stained tiles that are gonna get covered up by the rug.










I also have to start working on the entrance to the theater. That should begin Wednesday. Just gonna do a Marquee Entrance type thing and a Ticket booth.


Ruben


----------



## pinkfreud55

I'm all in! Can't wait.


BTW: Kinda cool that you're way down there and I'm way up here (Northern Ontario - Timmins). Great thread man!!


----------



## CollinViegas

O.K Ruben, since you aren't doing any work on your theater for a few days maybe you can answer this question.


Which part of constructing your theater would you have considered the hardest?


I mean I am fairly handy with my hands and with your pictures and future blog to detailed description of the build I should be able to manage, but is there any part you would suggest being contracted out to someone more skilled?


like the fiber optic ceiling, Columns, walls, Veneering, etc...


I would like your input on this because who would know better than someone who has just done it!


Thanks for your time once again.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> O.K Ruben, since you aren't doing any work on your theater for a few days maybe you can answer this question.
> 
> 
> Which part of constructing your theater would you have considered the hardest?
> 
> 
> I mean I am fairly handy with my hands and with your pictures and future blog to detailed description of the build I should be able to manage, but is there any part you would suggest being contracted out to someone more skilled?
> 
> 
> like the fiber optic ceiling, Columns, walls, Veneering, etc...
> 
> 
> I would like your input on this because who would know better than someone who has just done it!
> 
> 
> Thanks for your time once again.



Hardest?

The Heavy work. Like trying to lift a double layered Dywall Wall off the floor and get it in position on Top of blue foam. This was a Stagger Studded Wall that was 16' x 8' that was movable without drywall. We had to double Drywall and GG the outer side first in order to put it against the garage door. Well we figured to lay it flat on the floor, propped up a bit and enough guys could lift it. Well we were Dead wrong. We had 4 guys (I'm a real big dude) and it would not budge. We also had no way to get any lift in position as well. So we had to cut the Wall in sections to put it in position after all that. So from that point on we made all the walls in 8 foot sections.


Some people would say doing double layer drywall on the ceiling should of been hard, but we did the smart thing and rented a drywall lift.


Here is that 16 foot wall.











As far as most Tedious work:


Making the 12 star panels. I had to hand feed each fiber through a hard to find tiny hole 600 times.


As far as most time consuming:


Staining and decision Making.


Ruben


----------



## mbkintner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Their web interface is confusing.
> 
> 
> Here is the 2000 series --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/...000%202100.asp
> 
> 
> and the 4000 --> http://wholesalescreensandglass.com/..._4100_4400.asp



If Ruben doesn't want to handle the "group buy" on this I'd be willing to do it. A few things would have to be agreed upon first:


1. 2000 series versus 4000 series (if enough interest I could do both)

2. Weave 10%, 5%, 3% (I'm leaning towards 5% but am interested in seeing the Ruben's feedback on the 3%)

3. Acceptable packaging method for shipment

4. Roll height: 63", 84", or 98" for the 4000 series........72" or 96" for the 2000 series. My thought would be to get the biggest possible for either (both?) series so that everyones situation would be covered. It might make the screen cost a bit more for each person but it's pretty insignificant. For example, on the biggest size possible 98" (4000 series) were looking at $29.84 per yard. Basically a 98" x 174" screen would cost $145 plus shipping. That's pretty cheap and BIG. Somebody check my math but I think it's right.


If there is REAL interest in this I'll do it and work out the price per inch. I've culled a lot of information on these forums for my own HT and doing this will be my contribution back to the forum members. I think the biggest hurtle to overcome will be the shipping. Any recommendations?



Mike


----------



## Tryg

Although it is more expensive than some weaves I've found the Phifer Sheerweave 4000 is really good stuff. The fact that it comes in up to 98" definitaly makes it worth the extra price. most of the stuff I've found only comes in 72".


The 2000 is good too, but the 4000 has slightly better image quality, acoustically more transparent and comes in more sizes. The 2000 would make a good backing for to reduce lightloss.


the 2000 material may work better for people who experience moire with the 4000 material. It is almost identical to the Vutec product


Its THX (Tryg Hoff Xcited) certified as far as I'm concerned.


Bravo Ruben!


----------



## CollinViegas

tyrg, how would you compare it to the quality of the Screen Research ClearPix2?


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## JimmyMack

Tryg,


Which of the fabrics would you suggest for a CRT projector? It's an 8" with 1200 peak lumens (don't know the ANSI figures). Do you know the approximate gain is with these fabrics?


Thanks,


-Jimmy


----------



## miltimj

Wow, great news. I wonder if they perform differently (2000 vs 4000) based on native resolution of a digital projector, or if the 4000 (according to Tryg) is better with both 720p and 1080p, for example.


Mike, I don't think you'll have difficulty getting enough people.. perhaps start a different thread and post a template for what you'd like everyone to post as their preferences. Perhaps there will be enough that custom bulk purchasing can be done. For example, I would want the 4000 (5%) at 98" high by 18 ft, and the same size of the 4100 in black. If there are enough people that want the same thing, you can group them together.. but there may be plenty of people who want a different type of screen.. obviously if there aren't enough, perhaps they group into their second choice (e.g. bigger than they expected).


Ruben, glad to hear your carpet is coming soon!


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## miltimj

Sounds great, Ruben. I still would suggest starting a different thread for this... Otherwise it turns into a combination of a phenomenal home theater build and a Demo DVD request thread.. (I'm sure you've seen it)


I wonder if somebody will put MM (Mississippi Mud) on an SMX (SandManX) screen..


----------



## bluesboyjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike, I will take care of the Group Buy for now Since it's My Thread and My Findings, after all it's the least I could do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



No offense Ruben, but I had mentioned that I was testing this fabric (the 2000 and 4800 series) in my DIY screen thread 2-3 weeks before you ever posted about it and another forum member had posted that he had tested it over 2 months before me in the Vutec screen thread. I give credit to you for the extensive postings and reviews of it, but to say you discovered it is another issue. No hard feelings







, I'm glad that someone has finally proven there was a great diy acoustically transparent screen, which was my goal also.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pinkfreud55* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm all in! Can't wait.
> 
> 
> BTW: Kinda cool that you're way down there and I'm way up here (Northern Ontario - Timmins). Great thread man!!



Yeah, but you probably NEED your garage!!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think this is going to be a really big thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok Folks, If you are interested in getting Samples of This material,
> 
> Please * Email Me * your Name and Address and I will respond to your email with Instructions.
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike, I will take care of the Group Buy for now Since it's My Thread and My Findings, after all it's the least I could do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If this becomes too overwelming, I will hand the duties over to the next man. I should Be good for the first few rolls. Considering I have all the tools to cut this and prepare it, I should be fine. I will look on the U-Line site for packing Materials.
> 
> 
> We need to give This material a Screen Name. How about SMX?
> 
> We can have the SMX 2000 and SMX 4000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I also believe most of us are going to want a black version also of whatever screen we end up choosing. hate to double your work Ruben.










AND a good way to fasten it both sheets of material!


----------



## FusionRx

In deference to the other folks who were testing the screen material before you, how about a 'neutral name' like ECS (El Cheapo Screen) or GDS (Great Deal Screen) or your original BGS (Blue Goo Screen)??


Just a thought...


----------



## Andy238

How about "GFATS Material"?

(Great Find Acoustically Transparent Screen)


About shipping... Ruben, does this material fold well? Or will it crease?

I know we hate to fold screens but it may be more cost effective than shipping a 98-inch + tube or carton. Just a thought.


Andy


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In deference to the other folks who were testing the screen material before you, how about a 'neutral name' like ECS (El Cheapo Screen) or GDS (Great Deal Screen) or your original BGS (Blue Goo Screen)??
> 
> 
> Just a thought...



Naw, Give Ruben the credit. Does anyone remember who _really_ invented the lightbulb? Edison was just the guy that patented it.










I think SMX would be just fine.


----------



## Meddy

For the Canadians who are following tis thread I checked with Covers Bed and Bath and they will sell Sheerweave by the foot. I believe it is only the 4000 line they carry at 10% openness. I don't have the details in front of me here at work but if I remember correctly it come in 52" or 84" widths and sells for $16 /ft for the 52" and $23 for the 84" widths. They also have the black weave as well.


My numbers may be a bit off but I was glad to see I could buy the material locally, and by the foot!


----------



## MaximAvs

Are most of you guys going to be using this screen for an outdoor application?! The reason I ask is that it seems to me that a lot of you are wanting quite a bit of this stuff. (10' , 14', 18') If the roll is 98", I would think that you'd only need about 6' or so. Or is it for making more than one screen?!

Am I missing something?


Sean


----------



## Andy238

No outdoor screen. I plan on a 2.35 CH screen at 51 x 120-ish. So need just over 10 feet for mounting purposes. The 64" roll would be perfect for me but the conscientious is leaning to the 98" roll probably for those doing smaller 16x9 screens. That way they only need a couple yards.


----------



## Andy238




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Meddy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For the Canadians who are following tis thread I checked with Covers Bed and Bath and they will sell Sheerweave by the foot. I believe it is only the 4000 line they carry at 10% openness. I don't have the details in front of me here at work but if I remember correctly it come in 52" or 84" widths and sells for $16 /ft for the 52" and $23 for the 84" widths. They also have the black weave as well.
> 
> 
> My numbers may be a bit off but I was glad to see I could buy the material locally, and by the foot!




Hokey Smokes!









I hope you mean by the yard not foot! A whole 30 yard (90 foot) roll of the 4000 series in 84" is ony $735 USD at the above linked wholesale outlet.


Dollar conversion or not that would be an incredible mark-up!


----------



## Tryg

Yes it's just as good as the SR product assuming it doesn't moire. SR has a non perpendicular weave to reduce this BUT any screen surface with a regular pattern/weave can moire.


All vinyl coated weave products like this perform just as good. And there are plenty in the marketplace. They are used for everything from oudoor appolstry to sunshading.


my loose eyeball estimates are:


4000 = .9- 1 gain

2000 = .8-.9 gain


virtually the same? yes but under tight scrutiny the 4000 is a bit brighter. They are both worthy performers as well as the Soltice 86-2044.


Are they gods gift to screen materials? not really, but they perform admirably and have a good price point for the DIYer. Campared to SR products it's a no brainer.


These materials compare favorably to a standard matte white screen. Screens with an optical coating can still outperform them. If your mission is to get an acoustically transparent screen I think these are worthy performers.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bluesboyjr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No offense Ruben, but I had mentioned that I was testing this fabric (the 2000 and 4800 series) in my DIY screen thread 2-3 weeks before you ever posted about it and another forum member had posted that he had tested it over 2 months before me in the Vutec screen thread. I give credit to you for the extensive postings and reviews of it, but to say you discovered it is another issue. No hard feelings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I'm glad that someone has finally proven there was a great diy acoustically transparent screen, which was my goal also.



And is this the fabric you went with ultimately? If not why?


----------



## Tryg

No offense to all of you. These materials have been known and available for years.


----------



## Gerry S

I noticed there was some mention of backing this material with some of the similiar weave material in black.


Would this impact the "openess" factor?


Would it be better to back this screen material with speaker cloth?


Curious to hear some thoughts on backing strategies.


-Gerry


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I noticed there was some mention of backing this material with some of the similiar weave material in black.
> 
> 
> Would this impact the "openess" factor?
> 
> 
> Would it be better to back this screen material with speaker cloth?
> 
> 
> Curious to hear some thoughts on backing strategies.
> 
> 
> -Gerry



And if so maybe white grille cloth to help with the dimness from light pass through?

Just thinking out loud


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tryg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No offense to all of you. These materials have been known and available for years.



If thats the case , why has it not been covered to the extent it has here? If its the same as Clearpix , the DIY screen forums would have one post as to what to use for an audio screen. I searched for a month about this 6 months ago and Dazian was all that ever came up.


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## Andy238




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And if so maybe white grille cloth to help with the dimness from light pass through?
> 
> Just thinking out loud



From what I understand about the backing is that it helps contrast levels as well as light loss. I think that's why black is the color in vogue.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> At the end of the Day, we all benefit here. We just saved you a fortune!



And that's what these forums are all about; mutual benefit from one's own exerperience...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds great, Ruben. I still would suggest starting a different thread for this... Otherwise it turns into a combination of a phenomenal home theater build and a Demo DVD request thread.. (I'm sure you've seen it)



It's True, For everyone that wishes to discuss this Screen Material lets move it over to my original * DIY Screen Thread *




Thanks

Ruben


----------



## bluesboyjr

Thanks for being civil, I've been worried all day that my post sounded a little harsh. Actually, as far as the name is concerned, I liked your original name for it. I though it had a nice ring







.


I had also pmed Tryg for info before I took up the testing, I was initially looking for the fabric that he posted about that had the cross weave, but he couldn't remember the source.


The main reason I haven't been posting much info on my thread is that I've been waiting for all my samples to come in (my vutec sample, which will be a staple for comparison finally came in a couple days ago, and in the process of waiting I've been ordering other fabrics. I would like to post comparisons all at the same time with all the fabrics, that way I don't lead people in the wrong direction.


I must applaud you, though, as you have a really fine thread going here, and I'm glad you started testing these fabrics also, because with your amount of posting history compared to mine you will definately help add credibility to these tests.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Non Taken. Tryg knew about this stuff before all of us here. He was the one that brought it up in the Vutec Thread. But it never went beyond that. I even PMed him on why he didn't persue testing it. This was around the time I was messing around with it and I was curious as to why he didn't do a shootout with it.
> 
> 
> At the end of the Day, we all benefit here. We just saved you a fortune!
> 
> 
> Ruben


----------



## mbkintner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ........Since it's My Thread and My Findings........



Capitalized for emphasis???










No problem, just trying to help spread the workload. If it becomes too much my offer still stands.


Mike


----------



## SmX

....


----------



## maxfli

Ruben, love the thread. I've learned a ton and you've convinced me to start my HT project. I'm doing a garage renovation like yours, but due to a heavy travel schedule and lack of skills, I'm hiring custom installer/builder to do the project. I was wondering if you had an update on the project costs to this point? I would like to compare what you've spent to his proposal.


Thanks,

Marty


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben,


I think the phrase everyone is thinking about is Tipping Point. That point at which a critical mass is reached to effect a shift or change. You are it my friend.


----------



## chiphayes

Ruben...


I've been lurking here for a few weeks as well, taking copious notes. You're an inspiration. I should be into my own HT building mode by late this year. Many of my preliminary sketches have been tossed, replaced shamelessly by your design.


The whole screen research thread is a killer, too. I can picture a scene with all these screen manufacturers and dealers seated around a large conference table, a Godfather figure at the head of the table:


"So what do we do about this Sandman guy?"


"Maybe just ignore him? If we stay real quiet, perhaps he'll just go away."


"Isn't it obvious? The man's disovered our secret. He has to be silenced. Give the job to Luca Brasi."


Hehe. Anyway, as I said in an email to you, if your tests confirm your hypothesis, I'd love 12 feet of whatever material floats your boat.


One other thing: how is your light tray framed out? Is it 3/4 MDF under that veneer? It appears that the bottom of it is attached to the soffet at it's outside edge, but how is the vertical piece and the rest of the horizontal piece supported along the run?


Keep up the great work.


And if some fish wrapped in a piece of micro-perf show up at your doorstep, run.


Chip Hayes


----------



## tannerjr









chip


----------



## tannerjr









chip


----------



## mike.armf

Chip says, "And if some fish wrapped in a piece of micro-perf show up at your doorstep, run."


LOL - as a fan of both this thread (awesome, inspiring work) and the diy screen thread, Chip's quote above is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.


Thanks to both you Gentlemen...


Mike


----------



## patrickwebb

I just emailed Ruben to be put on the list. There is so much information in this thread, its pretty amazing to say the least. My second HT will be started by the end of the summer (hopefully) once our new house is built and I know I will be using this thread for help, thanks!


----------



## Ph0n33z




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *patrickwebb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just emailed Ruben to be put on the list. There is so much information in this thread, its pretty amazing to say the least. My second HT will be started by the end of the summer (hopefully) once our new house is built and I know I will be using this thread for help, thanks!



Sounds just like my current situation. Our New home is supposed to be finished in June/July. So hopefully that will be the start of my Home Theater Build. I also want to get a screen from Ruben, so maybe we can swap some ideas when we start?


----------



## SmX

.....


----------



## chinadog

I just want to know whats up with your carpets? I've lost track as to when it was being installed. I thought this week? I've gotten lost in all the screen talk!


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just want to know whats up with your carpets? I've lost track as to when it was being installed. I thought this week? I've gotten lost in all the screen talk!
> 
> 
> Bud



Good question, let me call them Now!


Ruben


----------



## patrickwebb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ph0n33z* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds just like my current situation. Our New home is supposed to be finished in June/July. So hopefully that will be the start of my Home Theater Build. I also want to get a screen from Ruben, so maybe we can swap some ideas when we start?



For sure I will have a construction thread once I start on my build. I have already started laying out the room from my house blueprints. I feel the same way to document and post progress as it might someone just like it helped me along the way. That's the greatest thing about AVS forum.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good question, let me call them Now!
> 
> 
> Ruben



The Carpet People wanted to install on the 28th









But I talked them Into installing it this Saturday










So This Saturday I can Start Bringing the chairs In The Room!

We are getting close!


I got to prepare the room so the installers don't Scratch up up my wood work. They are suppose to be real high End installers (they do the Installations for Macy's). But I seen that movie with Richard Pryor called "Moving" too many Times










Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

Ruben, If you would like to laugh a bit I have a story for ya... Yesterday I tried getting a quote on what an Installer would charge me to build your room. I sent him a picure of the renders and told him basically what I wanted and said I would provide all of the material. His reply was:


Dont worry about the material, just let me know what you want and I will get it all for you! This way it will be less stress to you. By the looks of the renders and materials you suggested you were going to be using I would give you a ballpark estimate of anywhere between {$60,000 - $75,000} for the room construction...


When I replied, I have seen this room built already for roughly $15-20,000 and I dont think 3-4 weeks labour is worth $40,000 to $55,000, he replied with:


Well by that estimate I can tell you the room wasn't done right! I just laughed and decided to go another route. I am just going to hire a normal carpenter to do all of your fine woodwork, And I will handle all the Electrical, GOMing and Drywall.

Then call some carpet installers and be done with it.


Hell for his price I could fly you and a few friends to Ottawa! lol


Thanks to your thread I may have saved TONS of money, so Thank you...


P.S any updates on when you will have your Construction Blog ready so I can use it as a starting point?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, If you would like to laugh a bit I have a story for ya... Yesterday I tried getting a quote on what an Installer would charge me to build your room. I sent him a picure of the renders and told him basically what I wanted and said I would provide all of the material. His reply was:
> 
> 
> Dont worry about the material, just let me know what you want and I will get it all for you! This way it will be less stress to you. By the looks of the renders and materials you suggested you were going to be using I would give you a ballpark estimate of anywhere between {$60,000 - $75,000} for the room construction...
> 
> 
> When I replied, I have seen this room built already for roughly $15-20,000 and I dont think 3-4 weeks labour is worth $40,000 to $55,000, he replied with:
> 
> 
> Well by that estimate I can tell you the room wasn't done right! I just laughed and decided to go another route. I am just going to hire a normal carpenter to do all of your fine woodwork, And I will handle all the Electrical, GOMing and Drywall.
> 
> Then call some carpet installers and be done with it.
> 
> 
> Hell for his price I could fly you and a few friends to Ottawa! lol
> 
> 
> Thanks to your thread I may have saved TONS of money, so Thank you...
> 
> 
> P.S any updates on when you will have your Construction Blog ready so I can use it as a starting point?



Did you also inform them that the room was constructed with Stagger Studded Walls, Double Layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue inbetween. And 3 Layers of 5/8" Dywall on the Ceiling with GG as Well. Over 90 Sheets of Drywall hung (hopefully never again)


----------



## patrickwebb

The problem is that you probably mentioned the word "home theater" and dollar signs popped into his eyeballs. Like you said, its probably better to be your own gen contractor and just hire subs for each individual process.


----------



## patrickwebb

I just remembered, after reading through every post in the last couple days, did anyone mention or figure out who your friend was? I LOL'd when I saw his hat, gonna have this theater in any movies in the future???


----------



## CollinViegas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you also inform them that the room was constructed with Stagger Studded Walls, Double Layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue inbetween. And 3 Layers of 5/8" Dywall on the Ceiling with GG as Well. Over 90 Sheets of Drywall hung (hopefully never again)



Actually I did tell him all of this except for the 3 layers of drywall on the ceiling, I thought there was only 2.


But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol


The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.


I have looked into another carpenter and he gave me a much better quote, I will be going with him. I have a friend who is an electrician and my uncle is a painter/ Drywall installer so that just leaves me with the GOM. I am going to use rives audio for the acoustic Design of my room since my audio/video calibrator works for them and I am going to get all of my acoustic materials from Bpape.


Any word on the blog, It would be much much appreciated.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually I did tell him all of this except for the 3 layers of drywall on the ceiling, I thought there was only 2.
> 
> 
> But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol
> 
> 
> The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.
> 
> 
> I have looked into another carpenter and he gave me a much better quote, I will be going with him. I have a friend who is an electrician and my uncle is a painter/ Drywall installer so that just leaves me with the GOM. I am going to use rives audio for the acoustic Design of my room since my audio/video calibrator works for them and I am going to get all of my acoustic materials from Bpape.
> 
> 
> Any word on the blog, It would be much much appreciated.



If You want, I can just come up there and Build it for you.









I'll take the Money.










Ruben


----------



## jerrodshook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But I also said I would provide all of the materials, this was just a labor job. When someone tells you they want 75K to finish 1 room I think they are nuts unless it was made out of gold! lol
> 
> 
> The funny thing is he most likely did hear the words "home theater" and thought "ching ching $$$" lets see how much I can get.



That's funny. I had a contractor tell me it would cost $90,000 to finish my basement (1,700+ sq ft). Nothing special at all, no HT, no audio/video distribution, just to finish framing, normal wiring, drywall, etc. I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with that extra $65-70,000 I'm saving!










BTW Ruben, awesome looking room! My wife grew up in Boca/Coral Springs area. Her family lives in West Palm Beach, so next time I'm down there, I just may have to "be in the neighborhood" and check this place out. The wood and veneer really sets you room apart from the others. I'm planning to have a lot of wood and similar look, and just hope it turns out half as nice as yours!


----------



## SVonhof

Jerrod, not to take away from Ruben's theater page, but I took a look at your web site for your theater. Dude, it's taking a while to get your basement done! Wow!


BTW, I looked at your overall plans for the basement and you may need to reconsider the wine cellar location if you need to do any cooling in there. The reason I say that is I have looked into a wine cellar and for the cooling units (unless you get one to vent to outside, which is lots more money) you need to be able to vent to a room that is at least the same size as the cellar. In my case, that just can't happen, so I would need to vent to outside. If you don't need cooling, then just make sure you don't attach your racking to the wall unless you do offset stud configuration, since you don't want vibration getting to your wine, that is one of the things that can ruin good wine (the other three being light, heat and moisture).


----------



## FusionRx

$90 000????? Good lord, what are they making the frames out of? Rare african Timbers?? I could probably do it for $10-15k. (Ok, I should get some timbre estimates on timbre prices, but I built a 12x21.5 ft deck for ~$1500.)


----------



## jerrodshook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jerrod, not to take away from Ruben's theater page, but I took a look at your web site for your theater. Dude, it's taking a while to get your basement done! Wow!
> 
> 
> BTW, I looked at your overall plans for the basement and you may need to reconsider the wine cellar location if you need to do any cooling in there. The reason I say that is I have looked into a wine cellar and for the cooling units (unless you get one to vent to outside, which is lots more money) you need to be able to vent to a room that is at least the same size as the cellar. In my case, that just can't happen, so I would need to vent to outside. If you don't need cooling, then just make sure you don't attach your racking to the wall unless you do offset stud configuration, since you don't want vibration getting to your wine, that is one of the things that can ruin good wine (the other three being light, heat and moisture).



Yeah, not to hijack things, but thanks for reminding me how long it's taking!







Besides re-working my HVAC, I've done everything else by myself and it just takes time. I travel for work, have a young daughter, play bass guitar in a band, have numerous other projects around the house, etc.... For the wine cellar, it's just a pie in the sky right now. It will be small (4x5 maybe).....


----------



## SVonhof

A small cellar is better than none at all if you love wine! We ended up getting a 110 bottle free-standing unit for now and if the stocks go back up, we may end up doing a real cellar, but my wifes ideas would be that it would be large enough for 4 people to be in and have a little table for cheese and pouring..... Installation wouldn't be bad though as I can do most of it.


----------



## SmX

Update:


The Carpet installers called me and confirmed they will be coming around 12pm EST tomorrow. I also started installing the Equipment in the Rack and Snaked through a few more wires I had recently got (Good Thing for those Conduits)










I also got 4 Full Size Rolls of Screen Material to test tonight. I posted a Picture In my Screen thread.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P

And ya got 5 or 6 screens, looks like Sunday night at the Movies to me, Does anyone else expect any less from Ruben?


----------



## chiphayes

Ruben...


Going through your thread again, I had a couple of questions (and one I asked in an earlier post, but whcih was probably lost among the rest of my blathering):


- Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?


- You've said how good the picture looks when running via your HTPC and its software processing. When you play a movie via your Sony or other DVD player, are you using any processing? Or just going from DVD to projector, and letting the H79 do it's thing?


- I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?


- Are you planning a masking system at all for the screen sides?


- And finally, my light tray question: How is that framed out? I assume it's MDF underneath that veneer, and I see that the lower, horizontal piece appears attached at its edge to the bottom of the soffet. But how is the vertical piece and the length of the run supported?


Thanks for helping illuminate a novice...


Chip


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> The Carpet installers called me and confirmed they will be coming around 12pm EST tomorrow. I also started installing the Equipment in the Rack and Snaked through a few more wires I had recently got (Good Thing for those Conduits)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also got 4 Full Size Rolls of Screen Material to test tonight. I posted a Picture In my Screen thread.
> 
> 
> Ruben



The Carpet people rescheduled for Tomorrow morning.









Oh well, 1 more day.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiphayes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben...
> 
> 
> Going through your thread again, I had a couple of questions (and one I asked in an earlier post, but whcih was probably lost among the rest of my blathering):
> 
> 
> - Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?
> 
> 
> - You've said how good the picture looks when running via your HTPC and its software processing. When you play a movie via your Sony or other DVD player, are you using any processing? Or just going from DVD to projector, and letting the H79 do it's thing?
> 
> 
> - I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?
> 
> 
> - Are you planning a masking system at all for the screen sides?
> 
> 
> - And finally, my light tray question: How is that framed out? I assume it's MDF underneath that veneer, and I see that the lower, horizontal piece appears attached at its edge to the bottom of the soffet. But how is the vertical piece and the length of the run supported?
> 
> 
> Thanks for helping illuminate a novice...
> 
> 
> Chip



>- Have you decided on what anamorphic lens to use yet?


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiphayes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ... I've grasped the constant height theory, as far as the 2.35 and the 16:9 stuff goes. What about the showing old classics in 1.33? Do you need to use the H79 zoom to get CH with that format?



1.33 and 16x9 are a constant height on the disc, so no special treatment (other than larger side masking) would be necessary...right?


----------



## ScottJ0007

ebr,

I think you are right. If you remove the anamorphic lens (or switch it to pass-through mode), you get constant height for 16:9 and 1.33. You shouldn't have to use any zoom or scaling.


----------



## BFauska

That sounds like what I've read too. Now the question is whether or not to get an automated lens and have the HTPC control it.


keep on truckin'


Brian


----------



## miltimj

If you can afford the expense, the automated H-1200 prismasonic is a great option it seems.


By the way, you're both/all right that you simply use the passthrough mode for 1.33 and 1.78 material, just as if you didn't have a lens (since that's essentially what passthrough is)










I can't wait to see how your room looks with the carpet, Ruben!


----------



## SmX

Guys, I don't know if those Berklines I bought are going to work out for me.


Around 3pm or so it was nice and Sunny I sat in the Berkliner I had on my Pool table just to See how comfortable it was...


...Next thing I know Its Dark and 9pm. I lost 6 hours of my day sitting in it, I fell into a deep coma. The thing is so comfortable I swore I was sleeping in my bed.


This is going to be really bad. I can see it now, I don't think I'm ever going to get past the DVD Menu sitting In these chairs.


Ruben


----------



## patrickwebb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is going to be really bad. I can see it now, I don't think I'm ever going to get past the DVD Menu sitting In these chairs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I heard there is an option from Berkline that has a sensor to monitor occupants alertness and if they doze off, there are hidden electrodes to deliver a jolt. Might want to check into that!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see how your room looks with the carpet, Ruben!



I would imagine it's gonna look like the Renders


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would imagine it's gonna look like the Renders



Heh, unfortunately, Chirpie fights an uphill, losing battle with rendering. There's no way he can make the renders look as good as you make the room look.. (despite his fantastic job rendering)


----------



## SmX

I Got a ton of emails and PMs this past month asking me about the Column building and Staining Process. So since there is no real receent updates on my theater until the carpet gets installed, I will post this more detailed info on the column construction and staining process for everyone who asked...


The Columns, what can I say? They started off being regular Square columns and once we got them attached to the wall, I realized I didn't like them, they were intrusive and plain. I'm the kind of guy that likes different things. By Doing the square plain columns, I was not being different I was just following the steps of mostly everyone else. So we ended up tearing the square columns down and started with a whole new idea.


Good By Old, Hello New!










So I went back to the Drawing board and put together a new Idea based on having a round column. I went to the Local Wood Specialty Shop and picked up a 24" Half Round to see how it would look as a column. When I got it in the Room it was way too big. So I knew I needed a Smaller half round. I then searched for an 18" half round but No one carried them locally and they were $160 each plus shipping to get them from out of state. So I ended up finding some 8" quarter rounds, I figured if I can Glue to 8" quarter rounds together, I would have a 16" Half Round. So we put 2 8" quarter rounds together and the size was good.


Next Problem was, the 16" half round wasn't deep enough and looked rather puney in the theater. So we needed to beef it up a bit by bringing it out forward more. The idea of the Columns is to look like they are supporting the Soffits and the half round by itself didn't look like it was supporting anything. So we fixed this by adding a box to the back of the Half round to bring it out forward more. Now it was in proportion to the room and Soffits.


Here is the New column Design I did in photoshop.











Here is what the Columns started off as. These are 8" Quarter Rounds. Someone may ask "why didn't you just buy Half Rounds?" It's because Half rounds were nowhere to be found Locally in the size I wanted. I found a few places in NY, WA and Cali that Carried them, but they were around $160.00 each plus shipping for 96" 18" Half Rounds. These 8" Quarter rounds were $45.00 each and were in stock at Specialty by my house.












We Built a quick Jig on the Stage and Platform using screws an spacing them 16" apart to hold the 2 8" quarter rounds together. We used Pro-Bond Glue and 1" Staples to tie the 2 quarters together.











Once the glue dried over Night, we added a 1" x 2" strip inside the column over the Seam for More Support.











Next, we had to smooth out that seam in the front where the 2 quarters butt together. So we first sanded down the Seam and then added a quick coat of Bondo










After a half hour, Sand that bondo down to smooth it out and Sand the rest of the column to make Sure it has no bumps on it. You don't want a bump under your Veneer.











All Sanded and Ready for Veneer.











Measure and Cut your Veneer...











Here is the Glue we use to attach the Veneer


----------



## SmX

Here is the spray gun we use to apply the glue to the Veneer. A spray gun is not necessary but it makes the job faster instead of having to dip the roller in glue every 2 seconds.










Fill the Gun with the Glue and do some test spray patterns on a scrap of wood or Cardboard.










Spray the glue on the Column First.











Then Smooth it out and spread it on with a Special roller for Veneer Glue or Contact cement...










Then Spray and roll the Veneer Glue on the back of the Veneer.











Let Glue set for like 10 minutes or until it is almost not tacky then cover glued veneer back with Craft Paper to protect it while putting it on the Column or whatever your applying the veneer to. The Craft Paper helps make sure you don't accidentally put the veneer on in the wrong place. Once this sticks it is Stuck forever











Put veneer on Column with craft paper in between. Adjust position of veneer on column.











Once adjusted remove paper from one Side and press veneer down against column making Sure there is no air bubbles and smoothing it out from inside out. Then gradually remove the rest of the paper as you work your way around the rest of the Column. Make sure there is no air Bubbles.











Next, Use your Hard roller to compress the veneer onto the column using pressure. This roller makes sure your Veneer is flat against your Wood without any air bubbles. The harder you press, the less likely you will have any air bubbles...











Next, Trim off all your Excess veneer using a utility knife or a Laminate trimmer


----------



## SmX

After you trim off your excess Veneer, do a light sanding to the edges you trimmed off to smooth them Out.

Then sand the whole Veneer to prep it for Sealer and Stain. Then Wallah! Your all Finished Veneering.









We Created our Guide by Gluing 3 thin sheets of wood together and clamping them down to the Column Over Night. Once the glue Drys we should have a Half round Guide to Use for all our routering and cuts.











Next Morning, we unclamped the wood that we glued together the previous night and Wallah, we have our guide that is perfectly rounded to the radius of the columns.











Here is the Jig we put together for our router. We used a cheap router to do this because basically your screwing screws through the wood into the router plate.


We created this jig out of a scrap piece of the quarter rounds we used for the columns. The other side of the wood is flat, this side is rough. We made this jig to maintain a constant even depth around the column. The smooth side of this jig will line up with the guide we made to keep our lines straight and even. Without this jig, the router would be moving up and down, back and forth around the column, which would call for a terrible result.











Next, we clamped down the column to the work table. If the column would even slightly slide while Routering, we could mess up the routered line and would have to rebuild a whole new column.











Next, we took all our measurements down and clamped the guide in place. The router jig has a 2.25" offset, so we had to figure that in to all our measurements.











Next, Adjust the Depth of your Router Bit. This Shot shows how the Jig conforms with the Columns radius.


We Basically routered into the wood a little under a half inch with a half inch straight bit. Between the Brace inside the Column and the Strength of the wood being curved, there was no way this was gonna break apart.











Here we Go! Making sure the Jig on the Router is flush with the Guide we made, we begin routering out our first inset.










Close up, Half done...











Another Shot


----------



## SmX

Three Quarters Done...











Another View...

Notice the Router Jig flush against the Guide...











There You Go, Our First inset complete. Straight and smooth as an arrow.











We Re-adjusted the Guide for the Next inset and began routering it...











There you Go, Both insets complete. All they need is a light sanding and they will be ready to be finished.











As we work our way down the Column we get all our insets done.











Here are the completed routered columns. They still need to be cut to size and get the middle cut out for internal Speaker placement.











Here is a Last Close up Shot of the Routered insets before sanding.


----------



## SmX

Here is a Column Box. This Box will go behind the Half rounds against the wall. It is made out of Particle board. As you can see above, the reddish brown stuff on the stop sides is Bondo. We use this to smooth out the cracks so the Veneer goes over it smoothly.











Sanding down the bondo on the column box. Have to make Sure it's all smoothed out.











Routering corners...










We routered the Sharp corners down so the wood Veneer can wrap around it nicely.











Blowing off all the Dust from Sanding and Routering. Next comes Glue than Veneer.











Column Boxes all Done and Veneered. Only the edges get veneered because the middle gets covered with a Half round column.











Cutting and routering all these peices for these columns took about 3 days and created the biggest saw dust mess (as you will see on the following pages). Thoughout those 3 days we had to make some serious changes to the columns. One change was make the Rear box that the half rounds attach to less wide. We cut the width of the boxes down from 24" wide to 20" wide. Basically we had to remove a 4" strip inside the center of the Box and glue and screw the 2 Pieces of the box back together again. After that we glued and Screwed our Half round pieces to the Box.


Then we had to make the speaker grills taller due to addressing reflection issues with the room. I changed the Column design around the time my Audio Consultant Bryan Pape went on Christmas Vacation. Originally, we had set up the columns to have a 16" grill up high and routered all our insets around the future grill placement. When Bryan got back and saw the new design, he informed me that my 16" grill wasn't going to work for the reflection points so we had to make it lower to the floor to address reflections at ear level.











Here are the completed Columns. We cut the center of the Column out to use as the frame to make the Grills for them. In this picture, the middle piece is already cut out but is sitting in place.











Here is the column with the middle piece removed.











Here is the Middle piece we removed off the column. You will notice lines drew out on it for our cuts to make the Grill.


----------



## SmX

Here is that middle Piece in the previous picture all ready to go. We cut it on a table saw and painted it flat black. Now it's time to wrap it with some GoM fabric.











Stapling that fabric down to see how it looks and conforms to the frame.











Trimming that excess Fabric of the inside.











And here is the Grill in the Column. Perfect Fit! We may put some metal grill behind the fabric to make it more solid. It's a real lot of cloth with nothing behind it, and a hand leaning against it could stretch it out.


If your wondering why we did such a big grill on these columns, it was for 2 reasons. One was because of the reflection points of the room. These 2 front columns will be filled with Cotton to serve as bass traps and also treat the first reflection points of the room. The Second reason is, the Martin Logan Scripts that we will be using inside these 4 Back Columns are 44" tall x 10" wide x 7" deep.










Another Angle.











A Shot from the Platform.


----------



## SmX

This was not the Color I ended up going with. I posted this only for explaining purposes.


Here is how we Stained the Veneer Columns and Light Trays.


First you have to prepare the Veneer for the Stain, we do this by first sanding the veneer with a 120 Grit Sandpaper and then a 220 Grit. When done sanding, you want to remove all Sawdust off the veneer. We use a compressed air and cheesecloth to remove all Dust.











For Stain, we used ML Campbell WoodSong 2 Microton Spray stain (WS2 M307 Red). This is a fast drying stain that doesn't need to be wiped off (drys in 5 minutes).











Make Sure you gun is clean before putting stain in. We used 100% Stain, but you can also thin it down with thinner to get a different result.











Do a test Pattern on some scrap and adjust your airflow and Pattern to the sprayer. The trick to getting an even finish is to use allot of air and Mist the Stain/tint on. We use a full pattern spray.











Do a Quick Safety blow of air over your workpiece to ensure there is no Dust, then begin Spraying in even Distant strokes. Up and down is what we did here. The Red in the Pictures came out Really Red Looking, even though thats not the color. So don't mind the color.











Almost Done with first coat.


----------



## SmX

Now a quick second coat.










Make sure you don't cut your wrists



















Or this can happen to you



















After Staining, clean your sprayer out Good. We are using Wood Alcohol Solvent here to clean it.











Now it's time for a clear coat. We are using a Satin ML Campbell Magnalac Precatalyzed Lacquer (C144 14 Satin-35)











Once that first coat of clear hits the stain, the stain darkens up and pops out greatly. The clear brings out the color and the grain in the wood. If you noticed, the grain of the wood was white after the stain. The clear coat darkens up the grains a good deal.











After your first coat of Clear drys (about 45 minutes) you sand it with a 220 grit sand paper, then dust it off and shoot your second coat. Once your second coat is dry you sand it again with a 220 grit, Dust it off and shoot it again. The 3rd coat can either get sanded with steel wool and then waxed or you can leave it just as it is. If your air adjustment is right and you spraying technique is good, you should not end up with an orange peel look after your 3rd coat. If you do, just sand it with the Steel wool and wax it.


Also some people prefer 1 or 2 coats insted of 3. The more coats, the more smooth glassy finish you get. Do not do nore than 3 coats of clear and do not exceed 4 - 5 mill thickness of clear.


----------



## SmX












Here are some prety accurate shots of how the color turned out. We were trying to achive a Rosenut/Deep Cherry look but redder.


----------



## SmX

So After a few Days of Mixing Stains, I found the Color I was looking for.

So we experimented with Some grain Fillers and decided to use a Red Mahogany Grain filler to accent and fill the Grains.

This is a test sample we did quickly to Show the sample color.

This has only 1 un-sanded coat of clear.











Here are all the Speaker Grill Frames, Waiting for Paint.











Here are the stained Columns. This is only the 2nd Step out of 13 Steps to achieve the Finish we want. The Color at this point looks like a dark penny color or Dark copper, but That will all change as soon as the next few Steps get finished.











Here are the light Trays Stained.




















Some more Shots of the Columns.


----------



## SmX

Now Time to begin the next Step, adding the Filler. The Filler fills up the Deep pores of the wood and accents the grain of the wood. We are using the filler to get a nice overall smooth glass like finish.

In this shot the Filler is being thinned to be sprayed on and then rubbed in.











Strainig out the Filler here











Spraying it on...











Rubbing it in...











Spraying the Filler on the columns...











Rubbing the filler in...











Columns completed with the filling process...











Light Trays completed with the filling process...











Close up shot of Filler on column...











Next it's time to rub off the filler and then do a light Sanding.


Stay Tuned!


----------



## SmX

Couple last Screen Shots for the Night. This was with the Da-Lite Perforated Screen that Was Moiring. You Can see the Moire right between Jessica Albas Legs in the first picture


----------



## SmX

Update:


Carpet guy is here!


When they said Sunday Morning, I thought there were BSing me just to buy time. Its 1 guy, so lets See how this goes.


Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...You Can see the Moire right between Jessica Albas Legs in the first picture



Good thing. If it had been anywhere else, you might not have noticed it...


----------



## chinadog

Is that really Jessica's butt or is that a stunt butt??


Bud


----------



## SmX

A Little update,


The Carpet is Almost done, only the Stage is left now. It is looking reallly good. O


Once the carpet is installed, the only thing left to do to it will be to dye the lines in the carpet pattern. I'm bringing a kid in here to do that for a few hours. We made a template to mask off each line so each line can be dyed quickly and cleanly.


Right now the lines in the carpet pattern are a brownish/goldish color, we will be dying them red. Sounds like a real big job, but it really isn't.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Ok Folks,


Here are some Carpet Shots. The Step still Needs to be carpeted, as they did not have enough carpet (I wonder why)










The Color Red on the Walls and Columns is not the correct color as most of you already know. For some reason, It comes out Fire Engine Red whenever it wants to.


Enjoy...


----------



## SmX




----------



## SVonhof

So, you are gonna have a kid dye every one of those light colored lines red? That does sound like a big job, actually!


----------



## chirpie

Seeing it in there, I'm glad you didn't go for the black carpet border. I think it wouldn't have really added anything to the room. It would've been a border for border's sake situation. ^_^


So when are you going to haul the chairs in there so you can fall into an eternal sleep?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

WOW!!!!! Thats looking really sweet.


I think that step across the front of the stage would look really good if it were veneered and finished out like the rest of the wood.


Ronnie


----------



## kezug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Update:
> 
> 
> Carpet guy is here!
> 
> 
> When they said Sunday Morning, I thought there were BSing me just to buy time. Its 1 guy, so lets See how this goes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



First of all, all I can say is your post is inspiring and absolutely amazing!


I am curious. When the carpet guys arrive, what is their reaction to seeing your HT? After all, this isnt a boring dining room being carpeted.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, you are gonna have a kid dye every one of those light colored lines red? That does sound like a big job, actually!



Yeah, it may take a full day.







Even though the lines dissapear in Movie mode, the brown lines don't match anything in the room.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seeing it in there, I'm glad you didn't go for the black carpet border. I think it wouldn't have really added anything to the room. It would've been a border for border's sake situation. ^_^
> 
> 
> So when are you going to haul the chairs in there so you can fall into an eternal sleep?



Yeah, your Right. It would of got lost in the room. This looks fine for now until I find another carpet I like better. It's really hard to find black Carpets with patterns that aren't Beige or brown out here. I even checked online and Everything I found was Black and Brown or once in a while a Black and grey with a pattern I didn't like.


The chairs may go in tomorrow. I had nobody here to help me move them in today. I really wanted to get one in there at least. Oh well, hopefully tomorrow.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW!!!!! Thats looking really sweet.
> 
> 
> I think that step across the front of the stage would look really good if it were veneered and finished out like the rest of the wood.
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.


This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.


What do you think Chirpie?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kezug* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First of all, all I can say is your post is inspiring and absolutely amazing!
> 
> 
> I am curious. When the carpet guys arrive, what is their reaction to seeing your HT? After all, this isnt a boring dining room being carpeted.



This is Boca Raton, pretty much every new home comes standard with a home theater out here now. But, maybe mine has a little more detail than the cookie cutter theaters they put in new homes here.


Well anyway it was only one guy that showed up and did the job. He was pretty impressed, but also pretty pissed that he had to work on his day off.

He had spent all day yesterday doing a carpet in a 7 million dollar Boat.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.
> 
> 
> This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.
> 
> 
> What do you think Chirpie?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Your actually going to let kids up on the stage near your $5000 SMX screen material?










Im curious to see what a render would look like also.


Just apply a few extra coats of clear for a little more protection. I am


Ronnie


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ronnie. We think very much alike. There is a reason that the step didn't get done. I think veneering it may look real nice, but I dont know how it will hold up getting stepped on. I know I will never sep on it with Shoes, but we have kids that come by every now and then and you know how kids can be.
> 
> 
> This maybe a final revise job for chirpie. GOD knows, he only made 100 revisions already.
> 
> 
> What do you think Chirpie?
> 
> 
> Ruben




Sure. Before I mod it, I just want to clarify... Are we talking the whole step top and front or just the fronts with carpet interrupting on the top?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sure. Before I mod it, I just want to clarify... Are we talking the whole step top and front or just the fronts with carpet interrupting on the top?



Just do everything that is not Carpeted in my pictures (the one step on the stage). Not the Risers.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben like everything else, I know you've done your research.


What are the specs on that carpet pad. It looks pretty substantial. Not like the guy showed me for the inflated price here in the nations capital.


----------



## chirpie

I wasn't sure if you wanted the front of the step veneered too... every photo was a little dark to tell... ^_^


----------



## SmX

It would just be the Step. not the riser. So under the Step, make it black carpet.

Also, both the Steps have a 1-1/2" Lip.


Thanks!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben like everything else, I know you've done your research.
> 
> 
> What are the specs on that carpet pad. It looks pretty substantial. Not like the guy showed me for the inflated price here in the nations capital.



It was the best Pad they had. The other crap they want to give you out here in FL is thin 3/8" soft foam (has to do with climate issues I guess). Like 4 people walked out of the store when they saw the padding they got with the carpet for the price. I paid an upcharge of $5 a yard for the best padding, so like $150 more for my room.


Here is a link to the Padding...
http://www.karastan.com/karastep_luxe.asp


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would just be the Step. not the riser. So under the Step, make it black carpet.
> 
> Also, both the Steps have a 1-1/2" Lip.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Ruben



Eh, I should've known if I couldn't see it, it was probably the carpet. Oh well. ^_^


----------



## ronnie_jackson

That step is bad-ass. I like it.


Couple of suggestions if you dont mind. I would make the grain go the opposite way. Run it lengthwise.


Since your having him carpet the kickplate, it would be really cool to see a large roundover on the lip. Maybe a 2"er or so.


Very sweet!!!!!!!!! I sure wish I knew how to render like that.


Ronnie


----------



## SmX

Chirpie is the 3D render Master! If I went that route, I may do solid oak.


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

I personally like it better in the first render where the whole first step is veneered, but that would only be my choice.


----------



## Mark P

I think I would like carpet on steps and wood on the kick plate lit with 1/8" sideglow fiber optics, or better yet fiber optic stars on the kick plates matching the ceiling with a 6" " Picture framing" of the carpet on the stage with matching wood


Just thinking out loud, but I would have the ceiling and stairs be hooked together on dimming. The " Picture frame" of Oak surrounding the carpet would be 2" thick and possibly have a route right down the center of the lip painted black like the columns


----------



## pinkfreud55

Just me. But I would keep it all carpet. And if you're trying to separate the stage from the rest of the floor, Consider going with a solid color carpet, possibly black to match the columns and screen.


Another thought, and I'm no interior designer, what about flipping the carpet/wood: meaning that have wood on the face and carpet (either the same or black) on the top of the top of the step. If you do the black, again consider putting black on the stage as well.


Just some thoughts to consider.


Love your thread, and your manner. Clearly you have cash, but seems like a nice fella.


PF


----------



## kezug

Just a question...although aesthetically the veneered/solid oak step looks awesome, would it pick up a glare from the screen that would be too distracting for the front row audience?


If you feel that this is a possible distraction then I would recommend do the effect on the risers instead of the step...perhaps doing the riser below and above the step in question.


Just thoughts...I almost pulled back on even posting this comment.


Your HT is really coming together and its absolutely amazing you have Chirpie on your team! Chirpie...outstanding.


----------



## SmX

Hey Chirpie, do you want to give that a try as well? The Pattern carpet on the steps and the red oak on the 2 front risers. Maybe rope light under the 2 lips?


Thanks!

Ruben


----------



## JDH2

Ruben,


Your HT looks great and has been very helpful to me for my build. I have been lurking for quite sometime and I would like to suggest that you reconsider the carpet dye idea. It is a process that doesnt always produce good results and is a problem come time to having the carpet cleaned. In order to do it you will have to remove a majority of the stainmaster (clear dye) and original dye from the dye sites and refill them with the new dye. With so many small lines it is easy to make a mistake. Then a stainmaster will need to be reapplied to fill the remainder of the dye sites and protect the new dye. In many cases when a dyed carpet is cleaned at least some if not a majority of the dye is removed. You probably already thought about this, but if you are set on the new dye, try the process on a reminant piece. Once set use a wet cleaning agent on the spot and see if you get any color transfer onto a white towel.

I know this might be too late for you, but if other AVSers are looking to save a buck on their carpet pad and they own a business or can open a business account, look for a carpet cushion supply (CCS) store in their area or any carpet installation supply store should carry all types of padding at half the retail.


Thanks again for all the great info!


Mark


----------



## SmX

Hi Mark,


Thanks. I already tested the dye on a piece before I even ordered the carpet. If the dye process wouldn't of worked, then I would of not gotten this carpet. I'm using a very strong dye as well, don't have it next to me at this second to say what it is.


A friend of mine who is in the carpet business recommended this dye and it works really well. Also, if it gets on the Black part of the carpet, it doesn't show. I did like 20 Lines in 3 minutes or so and they came out fine. It should last long enough for me until I find a new carpet choice










Ruben


----------



## Test_Engineer

I think the wood step looks really good.







Sort of ties in the curve on the soffit above. I really think the glare shouldn't be a factor, considering the columns are already the same finish.


----------



## miltimj

I like Mark's suggestion of the kickplate being wood and carpet on the top... For reasons of looks as well as potential glare.


Great render, Chirpie.


----------



## miltimj

I'm digging way back here Ruben, but I was thinking about your soffits this morning and wondering how you did both bass absorption and veneering. So I looked back and noticed that it's veneering toward the middle and bass absorption on the outside.


Your post referencing this is #264 . Then I noticed that you put some kind of material underneath the bass absorption attached to the horizontal 2x4s, and I'm wondering what it is? I couldn't find where you mentioned it. Here is a picture that shows what I'm talking about:

Veneer Light Tray 


I imagine that material must be acoustically transparent yet somewhat sturdy to hold up the linacoustic?


----------



## chinadog

Tim,


I think it's kraft paper. Originally he had put in the cotton in the soffit then stapled the kraft paper on the bottom of the soffit. As I recall though, he talked to Bryan and moved the paper up on top of the 2x4s and the cotton sits on top. Ruben or Bryan, please correct me if I'm wrong. Check out post 561 .


Bud


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Chirpie, do you want to give that a try as well? The Pattern carpet on the steps and the red oak on the 2 front risers. Maybe rope light under the 2 lips?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ruben



Let me find my coffee and then I'll get to that...


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Let me find my coffee and then I'll get to that...



Chirpie, is it tough to move down to like 5'-6' or seating level, it looks like we are 9' up. maybe Rubens risers are tall and I missed something


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Chirpie, is it tough to move down to like 5'-6' or seating level, it looks like we are 9' up. maybe Rubens risers are tall and I missed something



Are you talking the height of the virtual camera? (I'm slow in the morning...)


If I put the camera at eye level, you can't see the top of the stage as well. Not difficult to make more than one view shot though...


As for the riser height, it's been so long since he told me, but it should be somewhere around 10 inches I thought...


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you talking the height of the virtual camera? (I'm slow in the morning...)
> 
> 
> If I put the camera at eye level, you can't see the top of the stage as well. Not difficult to make more than one view shot though...
> 
> 
> As for the riser height, it's been so long since he told me, but it should be somewhere around 10 inches I thought...



Yeah, thats what I meant, to render what people will see in real life.


----------



## bpape

Yes. The covering is Kraft Paper. It acts somewhat similarly to FRK/FSK facing to help minimize HF absorbtion but still allow bass to pass through. Real FRK/FSK will reflect even more and also act somewhat like a damped membrane.


----------



## chirpie














space between pictures


----------



## bpape

I kinda like that look. Certainly wouldn't take a lot of abuse only on the faces like that.


----------



## SmX

Yes that is very nice. I would probably do the same for the Platform In the Back as well, or at least the steps.


Good job Chirpie! Your Hired










Ruben


----------



## ebr

Yep. That's the ticket.


Also won't reflect any of the screen.


On another note - are you going to do the proscenium walls in the same black fabric as the screen wall like that? IMO - if you do, there's not much point in having the proscenium walls.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep. That's the ticket.
> 
> 
> Also won't reflect any of the screen.
> 
> 
> On another note - are you going to do the proscenium walls in the same black fabric as the screen wall like that? IMO - if you do, there's not much point in having the proscenium walls.



Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P

I agree, thats why I mentioned it, but I would not use rope lighting what so ever unless you have a huge lip, use 1/8"- 1/4" sideglow fiberoptic and pick your color or have multiple colors changing.


Infact Mr. Chirpie represents sideglow, not rope lighting from my experience, at least when it comes to stage lips. Mr. chirpie do you do this for a living or hobbie or both? can you do rooms that are strange in size and shape?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

That last render is near perfect. I like that look better than doing the whole step. It adds a very nice touch of class.


A thin fiber light on dimmers as suggested would be the trick. I see a red glow being emitted in the future.










Ronnie


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.
> 
> 
> Ruben



What? You changed that too?! Oi! Not even the curtains are safe!


----------



## SVonhof

So, is Ruben the kind of customer a contractor likes or hates? Keeps changing his mind which makes it hard to get things right, but makes things cost more at the same time....


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree, thats why I mentioned it, but I would not use rope lighting what so ever unless you have a huge lip, use 1/8"- 1/4" sideglow fiberoptic and pick your color or have multiple colors changing.
> 
> 
> Infact Mr. Chirpie represents sideglow, not rope lighting from my experience, at least when it comes to stage lips. Mr. chirpie do you do this for a living or hobbie or both? can you do rooms that are strange in size and shape?



I assume stuff sometimes, but I figured Ruben was an LED or Fiber Optic kind of guy. Not that ropelights don't have their place, but in front... that's gonna stick out quite a lot.


I do it for a living and a hobby, yes. And yes, I can do "weird shapes" as well. ^_^ The stuff I do for the members here is a lot more reasonably priced than the commerical stuff I do. But then, the commercial folks have more to gain in a monetary sense anyway. it's typical fare to charge differently based on usage in the commerical design industry.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.



I gave you plenty of her already


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, is Ruben the kind of customer a contractor likes or hates? Keeps changing his mind which makes it hard to get things right, but makes things cost more at the same time....



I'm my own contractor, that's why I can make all the changes I want.









Sometimes when your in the middle of a build, you see opportunities to make things better. I could of been the by the books kind of guy and just lived with my original plans and tear It down in a few months and do it over again. Or, I can make the improvements during the actual build and be happy for a longer time. As I said before, I am very happy with all the changes I made. There is one other change I now wish I would of made, that is to put my equipment somewhere outside the theater.


It's like Bryan Pape told me, sometimes a picture or render just doesn't cut it when compared to standing in the room. He is 100% right.


Ruben


----------



## bpape

Don't get me wrong, a pic or render is way better than just a 2D drawing to help you visualize. Sometimes, you just need to be there and experience it though.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That render ain't gonna be perfect until I see some J Alba cheeks on that big screen.



LOL, I was gonna make the exact same comment and I even had the editor open and half of it typed and then I thought what my wife would say if she saw that the request for more of JA's cheeks had come from me.










So thanks!! Now only if Chirpie complies.










JOe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is one other change I now wish I would of made, that is to put my equipment somewhere outside the theater.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Please share your thoughts about this?


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Equipment in the theater has a lot of problems.


First there is the noise and equipment today keeps getting noisier with many components having fans now. My TiVo isn't that loud, but get 5-6 components like that and it adds up.


Second, you have to deal with light spill from the LCD and LEDs. Most of these stay on all the time and that ends up washing out the screen a little bit. It starts to add up with more equipment and all of the lights are colored, so they shift the color on the screen.


Third, you need to designate an area that won't be able to have acoustic treatments and also need to have access to the front of that area. You would need access to the back or have enough room for a pull-out rack system.


Fourth, you have to keep the equipment cool. With most systems of this caliber or higher you are going to need some kind of fan. That generates even more noise and fan noise is tough to kill since you have to maintain airflow to the fan and that allows the sound to come back out via the same path. Puts lots of hard corners in the air path to kill the sound and you increase the resistance so you would need an even bigger fan to get the same CFM of air movement.


With a decent remote system, you don't need the equipment in the room, so why put it there?


By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, the Proscenium walls are wrong in the renders. They are suppose to line up with the front of the stage. I was originally going to do curtains (the track is installed) but may now use it for side masking instead.
> 
> 
> Ruben



You will have a problem using curtains for masking. If you have an acoustically transparent screen then you would want acoustically transparent masking as well. Not many curtains are acoustically transparent.


I have curtains going in my theater, but I wouldn't dare use them for masking. They are just for theatrical effect and to tie into the rest of the decor (as well as cover the opening at the edges of the screen wall).


----------



## jerrodshook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Equipment in the theater has a lot of problems.
> 
> 
> First there is the noise and equipment today keeps getting noisier with many components having fans now. My TiVo isn't that loud, but get 5-6 components like that and it adds up.
> 
> 
> Second, you have to deal with light spill from the LCD and LEDs. Most of these stay on all the time and that ends up washing out the screen a little bit. It starts to add up with more equipment and all of the lights are colored, so they shift the color on the screen.
> 
> 
> Third, you need to designate an area that won't be able to have acoustic treatments and also need to have access to the front of that area. You would need access to the back or have enough room for a pull-out rack system.
> 
> 
> Fourth, you have to keep the equipment cool. With most systems of this caliber or higher you are going to need some kind of fan. That generates even more noise and fan noise is tough to kill since you have to maintain airflow to the fan and that allows the sound to come back out via the same path. Puts lots of hard corners in the air path to kill the sound and you increase the resistance so you would need an even bigger fan to get the same CFM of air movement.
> 
> 
> With a decent remote system, you don't need the equipment in the room, so why put it there?
> 
> 
> By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.



Fifth, in most instances putting equipment in the HT means you're cutting a big hole in the wall. After all the trouble we go thru with multiple layers of drywall, GG, RSIC, etc putting a big hole in the wall just doesn't seem right.


I was going to put my equipment in the room, but after some advice from others I decided to put it out in the hallway.


Still looking good Ruben! Love the wood and look of everything, especially the wood around the tray in the ceiling.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By the way, Ruben, I made some changes to my room so it won't be so boring. Curves were added to the seating platform steps and the soffit in front of the proscenium. I uploaded pictures last night to my construction thread if you want to see.




You are too funny. I checked Your thread last night and they look great.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fifth, in most instances putting equipment in the HT means you're cutting a big hole in the wall. After all the trouble we go thru with multiple layers of drywall, GG, RSIC, etc putting a big hole in the wall just doesn't seem right.
> 
> 
> I was going to put my equipment in the room, but after some advice from others I decided to put it out in the hallway.
> 
> 
> Still looking good Ruben! Love the wood and look of everything, especially the wood around the tray in the ceiling.



Gawd, I hope you wouldn't think I would be Stupid after all this work and cut an open hole in my room for the equipment rack














The Closet for the equipment rack is solid Double 5/8" Drywall with GG in between and all insulated. I have a total of 3 penetrations in the Room...

1) the HVAC Supply (which I took all the proper measurements to seal it)

2) the HVAC Return (which I took all the proper measurements to seal that as well)

3) The Main Electrical Feed (which also has been properly routed and sealed)


The rack is pretty Damn quiet in the room with everything running. I hear the projector before I hear the rack.


Due to my room being only 15' wide, the 4 chairs on the riser kind of get in the way when trying to access the rack. Meaning, whenever I have to service it I have to move those big ass chairs around. Once its wired and set, I don't think I will have to service it until an upgrade or something anyway.


Also, Like MrPoindexter Said, The lights on the equipment can be a bit distracting. So I came up with an Idea to make a hiding panel so the equipment will be hidden in the room. The idea I have will not restrict circulation of air in the rack either.


The idea here anyway is to be able to control everything by remote and not have to every touch the equipment rack. That's why I'm using HTPC, Jukeboxes, Cinemar and IR repeaters.


Ruben


----------



## jerrodshook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gawd, I hope you wouldn't think I would be Stupid after all this work and cut an open hole in my room for the equipment rack
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Closet for the equipment rack is solid Double 5/8" Drywall with GG in between and all insulated. I have a total of 3 penetrations in the Room...
> 
> 1) the HVAC Supply (which I took all the proper measurements to seal it)
> 
> 2) the HVAC Return (which I took all the proper measurements to seal that as well)
> 
> 3) The Main Electrical Feed (which also has been properly routed and sealed)
> 
> 
> The rack is pretty Damn quiet in the room with everything running. I hear the projector before I hear the rack.
> 
> 
> Due to my room being only 15' wide, the 4 chairs on the riser kind of get in the way when trying to access the rack. Meaning, whenever I have to service it I have to move those big ass chairs around. Once its wired and set, I don't think I will have to service it until an upgrade or something anyway.
> 
> 
> Also, Like MrPoindexter Said, The lights on the equipment can be a bit distracting. So I came up with an Idea to make a hiding panel so the equipment will be hidden in the room. The idea I have will not restrict circulation of air in the rack either.
> 
> 
> The idea here anyway is to be able to control everything by remote and not have to every touch the equipment rack. That's why I'm using HTPC, Jukeboxes, Cinemar and IR repeaters.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I know you're not that stupid. With the rack in the room and if it's sealed, then you might have to look at an exhaust or fans in the rack to get rid of heat. Other stuff like that that's not an issue if you just put everything outside of the room.


Not everyone can afford the nice pull out rack you have either. Because of it you could completely drywall and seal the space behind it. I was originally thinking of putting a sealed door on the back of my rack for access to try and keep the sound from leaking. That's just one of the reasons I put it outside of the HT.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know you're not that stupid. With the rack in the room and if it's sealed, then you might have to look at an exhaust or fans in the rack to get rid of heat. Other stuff like that that's not an issue if you just put everything outside of the room.
> 
> 
> Not everyone can afford the nice pull out rack you have either. Because of it you could completely drywall and seal the space behind it. I was originally thinking of putting a sealed door on the back of my rack for access to try and keep the sound from leaking. That's just one of the reasons I put it outside of the HT.



Yeah, I have fans in the rack to suck fresh air in on the bottom and blow the hot air out the top. I was gonna AC the rack but it wouldn't of made sense being that my A/C isn't always running, plus it would be more work to make sure the sound doesn't leak through the system.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Ruben, did you calculate the thermal load to determine the CFM you need?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, did you calculate the thermal load to determine the CFM you need?



Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out


x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)

x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24

?1681 = 41, and therefore

x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24

x = 42/24 or ?40/24

x = 7/4 or ?5/3

If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore

12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)

What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:

x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)

x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2

What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:

x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i


But I gave up on that formaula and rewrote the formula to...


2 Fans on bottom of the Rack face sucking cold air in + 2 Fans on top of the rack face blowing hot air out = Cooler equipment. I also threw a tempaturature gauge in the equation to control the speed of the Fans.


----------



## chiphayes




Thought I'd stumbled onto an episode of NUMB3RS for a moment, there.


But back to banal questions for Ruben...


What brand/model of fans are you using?


Chip


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out
> 
> 
> x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)
> 
> x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24
> 
> ?1681 = 41, and therefore
> 
> x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24
> 
> x = 42/24 or ?40/24
> 
> x = 7/4 or ?5/3
> 
> If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore
> 
> 12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)
> 
> What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:
> 
> x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)
> 
> x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2
> 
> What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:
> 
> x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i



I am thinking that 4 is supposed to be a 3, please. If your going to post these formulas , try and get them right


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am thinking that 4 is supposed to be a 3, please. If your going to post these formulas , try and get them right



So that is where I was messing up


----------



## Mark P

I dunno if thats all, that 7 looks a little shakey too


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiphayes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thought I'd stumbled onto an episode of NUMB3RS for a moment, there.
> 
> 
> But back to banal questions for Ruben...
> 
> 
> What brand/model of fans are you using?
> 
> 
> Chip



These are the Fans I'm using http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...4640&CatId=494 


If you get them in Blue they cool off things better


----------



## Milt99

Since we're on the subject of quiet fans.

Here's the ones I use:
Pabst 

9db almost silent


Panasonic also makes some quiet ones.


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, here is the Formula I started using to figure it out
> 
> 
> x = [ ?(?1) ± ?[1 ? 4(12)(?35)] ] / 2(12)
> 
> x = [ 1 ± ?1681 ] / 24
> 
> ?1681 = 41, and therefore
> 
> x = [ 1 ± 41 ] / 24
> 
> x = 42/24 or ?40/24
> 
> x = 7/4 or ?5/3
> 
> If 7/4 and ?5/3 are roots, then (x?7/4) and (x+5/3) are factors. Therefore
> 
> 12x²?x?35 = (4x?7)(3x+5)
> 
> What about x²?5x+7? This one looks like it's prime, but how can you be sure? Again, apply the formula:
> 
> x = [ ?(?5) ± ?[25 ? 4(1)(7)] ] / 2(1)
> 
> x = [ 5 ± ?(?3) ] / 2
> 
> What you do with that depends on the original problem. If it was to factor over the reals, then x²?5x+7 is prime. But if that factor was part of an equation and you were supposed to find all complex roots, you have two of them:
> 
> x = 5/2 + ((?3)/2)i, x = 5/2 ? ((?3)/2)i



*Hmmmm, something is just not right here. Using your above calculations, then cross referencing them with the Hollister Thermal Index Prediction (TIP) program it shows that you need 2 of these. One on top, one on bottom, and slightly out of phase.*


----------



## BFauska

Am I the only one that noticed Ruben talk about the chairs being in the way of his equipment as if they were there now? Pictures? Please.










You are so close to having it look done, and since so many of us will never get to experience it in person, looking done is a HUGE thing. Although I will have to keep reading to hear how well all of your solutions work out for you...


Anybody else going to have 10 or 20 minutes extra everyday when Ruben is done and this thread doesn't get 20 new posts a day? I know I will.


Keep it up, it's looking great,

Brian


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Milt99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since we're on the subject of quiet fans.
> 
> Here's the ones I use:
> Pabst
> 
> 9db almost silent
> 
> 
> Panasonic also makes some quiet ones.



Nice,


But that fan only moves 12.35 CFM at 9db

the ones I have move 53 CFM each at 20db at full power. Thats more than 4 times more CFM at half the db.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Hmmmm, something is just not right here. Using your above calculations, then cross referencing them with the Hollister Thermal Index Prediction (TIP) program it shows that you need 2 of these. One on top, one on bottom, and slightly out of phase.*



Damn, I could of used one of those when I lived in the South Bronx with no AC.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFauska* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am I the only one that noticed Ruben talk about the chairs being in the way of his equipment as if they were there now? Pictures? Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are so close to having it look done, and since so many of us will never get to experience it in person, looking done is a HUGE thing. Although I will have to keep reading to hear how well all of your solutions work out for you...
> 
> 
> Anybody else going to have 10 or 20 minutes extra everyday when Ruben is done and this thread doesn't get 20 new posts a day? I know I will.
> 
> 
> Keep it up, it's looking great,
> 
> Brian



Yeah, I only got 2 chairs In the theater. Still waiting on this kid to come through and dye the lines on the carpet. Plus I want to fully wire everything up before I get all the chairs in there.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys, I had to Pull my pictures down for Now.

It was really bogging down my server.


I will try to get them back up this weekend.


Sorry

Ruben


----------



## jerrodshook

Ruben,


If you could, I'd like to hear about how you wired up the 12VDC fans? I have an entertainment center that has no holes/vents in it and right now I keep the wood/glass door partially open to keep my receiver, DVD player and cable box/DVR cool. I thought about just splicing the fan to a transformer and plugging it into an outlet on the back of my receiver.


I'd just be interested to see how you did it.....


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice,
> 
> 
> But that fan only moves 12.35 CFM at 9db
> 
> the ones I have move 53 CFM each at 20db at full power. Thats more than 4 times more CFM at half the db.
> 
> 
> Ruben



20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.


If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But I gave up on that formaula and rewrote the formula to...
> 
> 
> 2 Fans on bottom of the Rack face sucking cold air in + 2 Fans on top of the rack face blowing hot air out = Cooler equipment. I also threw a tempaturature gauge in the equation to control the speed of the Fans.



Add up the total watts of consumption for all the non-amplifiers in the rack. Give me that number, the amp make and model and I will calc the thermal dissipation requirements for you based on the proposed temperature of the room.


You might want to PM it to me, as I will be on the road for a couple of days and might miss in as your construction thread moves kind of fast.


----------



## SGS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> If you could, I'd like to hear about how you wired up the 12VDC fans? I have an entertainment center that has no holes/vents in it and right now I keep the wood/glass door partially open to keep my receiver, DVD player and cable box/DVR cool. I thought about just splicing the fan to a transformer and plugging it into an outlet on the back of my receiver.
> 
> 
> I'd just be interested to see how you did it.....




You could buy a 12v power supply (wall wart type) from Radio Shack. Make sure you add up the required current for all of your fans to be sure the supply can give you that. The Radio Shack supplies come with this goofy 2 pin connector on them. You could cut it off, cut off the connectors on your fans, and simply solder them together.


Or, they sell a little connector for that thing that has two tinned leads on the other end. I bought a short piece of computer cable (the 4 conductor 12v, Gnd, Gnd, 5v internal power cable) and cut one end off that. Then I soldered these two pieces together making a short adapter between to the fan connect and the 12v adapter. Worked great, and left the fans and power supply intact. You can get an adjustable power supply if you think you might want to run the fans a little slower if you are concerned about noise.


Once I had that all working, I decided to hook it all up to a pc fan controller that turns them on/off individually based on the cabinet temp. That was slightly more work as the fan controller needed 5v. You just have to build a little voltage regulator circuit.


I used Nexus Real Silent 120mm fans. They're silent to me. They can be ordered on Amazon via Cooler Guys. They arrived in 2 days.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.
> 
> 
> If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.



Ok Mike, You gotta be more than a "nut" man. I was gonna make the same comment and you beat me to it. Is your background in engineering?


Joe


----------



## SVonhof

Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.


It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.


They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.


I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.
> 
> 
> It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.
> 
> 
> They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.
> 
> 
> I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!



We just had one of our hard drives fail here too. Can't quite figure out what happened to it though.



















Joe


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.



That might be their explanation to the management team, but I doubt thats the real cause. When you have a failure of more than a single drive at the same time, its usually not just a drive issue. Especially if they are fairly new and dont have much run time on them.


Ronnie


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.



Wow, You sure these folks know what they are doing? I can restore almost 1 terrabyte in less than 5 hours on an exchange production clusters.


We are seeing some impressive restore times in the lab with the new LTO3 technology using flat files. Almost 80mb/sec streaming.


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, You sure these folks know what they are doing? I can restore almost 1 terrabyte in less than 5 hours on an exchange production clusters.
> 
> 
> We are seeing some impressive restore times in the lab with the new LTO3 technology using flat files. Almost 80mb/sec streaming.
> 
> 
> Ronnie




It looks like I got a hard drive repair guy now


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, we just had a raid array failure here at work. I don't know what number the raid configuration was, but I was just told that we had 4 fiber channel drives all go at one time. Basically the master boot record went bad on one and took the other three with it.
> 
> 
> It took our I.T. guys almost 4 days to get the back-ups restored so we could be working again. We had 302 gigs of data restored comprising 886,000 files. Doesn't seem like it should have been that long, but the restoration software we have which is UNIX based was choking after 60,000 files and slowing down.
> 
> 
> They are going to replace the existing set-up with a newer larger raid set-up in which 6 drives will be able to go without any noticable file issues.
> 
> 
> I hope after you get all your movies on there, that this doesn't happen to you!



That Sux. I would be doing a Raid 5 or Raid 1 anyway. But I will only be archiving newer titles. Older titles go in the Sony jukeboxes.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That Sux. I would be doing a Raid 5 or Raid 1 anyway. But I will only be archiving newer titles. Older titles go in the Sony jukeboxes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yeah, go with the raid.


I agree with Ronnie, those guys don't have a clue as to what they are doing. They must have run something that wiped out the boot records and are now trying to cover their arses. It definately was NOT a hardware issue.


Joe


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It looks like I got a hard drive repair guy now



LOL, I dont know about the repair part. But I can sure help you set up the correct striping and backup methodologies. With that in place, I can then help you recover the data in the event of a failure.


Maybe I can barter out for some theater build help?










Ronnie


----------



## SVonhof

Ronnie and Joe, I am in complete agreement with you guys. The typical person working on the IT stuff (the ones we have to deal with anyway) are stuck in their own little world. They are using a UNIX server which is fine, but up until less than a year ago, they forced the users to deal with unix machines as well. The program I use (Pro-Engineer) has been up and running on PC's for well over 10 years now, I know, I have been doing it on PC's from the time I learned Pro-E. They are somehow able to pull the wool over management's eyes when it comes to this stuff and they have all been there for 15+ years. The problem with being in one place for that long in that industry is that you CAN (I don't mean to say every IT person is like this) become lax about keeping up with new technology and get left in the dust.


They almost convinced the managers that it would be better to get new UNIX boxes instead of PC's when we were in the market a year ago. Better for who?


Ooooh, I could keep going on this, but I will stop, since it doesn't add to this thread at all!


----------



## tonygates2

Here is a company that sells aluminum screen frames and a heavy duty frame that will take the thickness of the sheerweave material.

http://www.alumaline.net/default.htm 


Tony


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 20db isn't twice 9db, as sound is measured on a logarithmic scale.
> 
> 
> If one fan moves 12.35 CFM at 9db, then two would move 24.7CFM at 12db and four would move 49.4 CFM at 15db. You could move 61.7 CFM with 5 of those fans and only be at 16db.



I was thinking the same thing. One problem (for the cost conscious) is that you can either push 53 CFM @ 20 dB for $19, or 61.7 CFM @ 16 dB for $100!










The slight difference in noise is likely not worth the cost.. of course it's all a cost to benefit ratio. A more important difference could be in their placement, design of the rack, etc..


----------



## coues

SandmanX,


I have been following this thread from the beginning or should say I have read from the beginning. At the beginning you were posting your cost on this project, but I have yet to see a follow up.


I and many other forum members would like to know the total cost of such a project from beginning to end. Obvious a project like this does not fit the budget for most of us so give us a breakdown. If I were to take a guess I would say your at $50,000.00 plus


----------



## CollinViegas

the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.


----------



## coues




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.



I am talking about the entire project - equipment, building material, chairs, etc...

Everthing that went into making the theater...etc...


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the equipment is one thing but my guess for the room is $20K or under considering he did all the labor himself with only minimal help. I have priced out most of the materials to build this room and my room is slightly bigger, I am still not even at $15K CDN, mind you that does not include chairs or carpet yet.



Sandman will correct me if wrong, but I believe he has had at least one helper all along the way. Not sure if they've been paid help or very, very, dedicated friend help but while his work is remarkable, I think he's had some help to keep it moving at the speed he has.


----------



## SmX

Here is a complete breakdown of what I Spent on this entire project. This does Not include the cost of a screen yet...


In case you missed it in the beginning, my room size is 15' x 20' x 9' ceilings or 300 square feet.


========================================

*Plans*


$150.00 for Renders of Room

*Total Planning Cost: $150.00*


========================================

*Heavy Construction Materials*


$560.00 for framing lumber


$934.50 for 89 Sheets of 5/8" Drywall


$1,208.75 for Plywood, Insulation, Joists, Silicone, roofing felt, etc


$60.00 for Foam on the roll


$48.00 for Red Head Anchors


$100.00 Nails, Screws, Glue, etc


$75.00 for Taping/Mud


$240.00 for 4000 lbs. of Sand for Stage


$65.00 2 Day Rental of Drywall Lift

*Total Heavy Construction Materials Cost: $3,291.25*


========================================

*Finishing*


$720.00 Veneer, Glue, Stain, Sealer, etc.


$565.00 for quarter rounds for 6 columns


$78.32 for Particle Board for columns


$95.00 Red Oak Plywood for Base Boards


$1,120.00 for the GoM Fabric

*Total Finishing Materials Cost: $2,578.32*


========================================

*HVAC*


$250.00 for Ductwork installation

*Total HVAC Cost: $250.00*


========================================

*Electrical*


$499.00 for Lutron GRX-3106-A Grafik Eye


$820.00 for Fiber Star Ceiling supplies


$625.00 for 125 Amp Service Box Installed


$75.00 for 200 Feet of Smurf Conduit and Clamps


$261.23 for Xantech IR repeater


$495.00 BTX MotorDrape


$183.00 Romex/Cat 5/RG-6/


$189.53 11 High Voltage Recessed Lights


$200.00 for 500 feet of 10 Gauge High Definition Zip Speaker Cable


$180.00 Outlets, Boxes, Conduit, Switches, etc.

*Total Electrical Materials/Labor Cost: $3,527.76*


========================================

*Treatments*


$1,210.00 for 7 Cases of Green Glue

$850.00 for Accoustic treatment materials

*Total Treatments Cost: $2,060.00*


========================================

*Misc. Labor*


$3,200.00

*Total Misc. Labor Labor Cost: $3,200.00*


========================================

*Finishing Touch's*


$1,470.00 for Carpet installed

$4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.

*Total Finishing Touch's Cost: $6,070.00*


========================================

*Total of everything up to the carpet (Without the Chairs) $16,527.33*

*Total of everything up to the carpet (With the Chairs) $21,127.33*



========================================

*Equipment*

*Speakers*


2 Martin Logan Odyssey's $6,350.00

1 Martin Logan Theater $2,800.00

4 Martin Logan Scripts's $3,200.00

1 Velodyne DD-18 Sub $2,800.00

*Rack Gear*


1 B&K AVR-507 Processor $2,800.00

2 B&K 200.1 Monoblocks $1,600.00

1 Pioneer DVD-59avi $850.00

1 HTPC $2,600.00

3 Sony DVP-CX777ES Jukeboxes $1,600.00

1 Monster AVS 2000 $1,100.00

1 Zenith HD-SAT520 $625.00

1 xBox 360 Premium $680.00

1 4:1 OPHIT DVI Switcher $314.00

10 Custom Rack Shelves $864.12

1 Equipment Rack $730.71

Misc Equipment for Serial, Switching, Rack cooling, IR etc. $300.00

Wires $830.00

*Projector*


1 Optoma H-79 Projector $4,100.00

*DVDs*


1,000 DVD's $15,000.00


*$34,143.83 For Total Equipment (Not Including DVDs)*
*$49,143.83 For Total Equipment (Including DVDs)*


-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Total Cost of Build, Equipment and DVDs for Theater $70,271.16*


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


I still need to build the Entrance to the Theater. I am doing a Marquee Entrance. I'm going to budget that at $1k


----------



## J-dubb16

Now that is impressive. I think you would win any under $75K HT competition.


J-dubb


----------



## CollinViegas

Sometimes I wish I lived in the states, Ruben you have gotten some amazing deals. I said 20K because I figured you already had the equipment for the room. as i do, So I was basing it off what the room costs to build.


The things that suck for me here in Canada are:


The Berkline 075 chairs, I believe you paid $4600 for 7 chairs in Leather/microfabric

Here in Canada for 5 in leather/Microfabric will cost me $6500 Cdn. I wish I had an address in the states so I could get in on the current powerbuy and then just ship them to Canada from there. I wonder what you would have paid for 5 chairs?


The star ceiling, if I order from Fosi they quoted me roughly $2100 US which isnt bad considering I have a bigger ceiling. But If I bought the Fiber Optic Ceiling from the local theater store here, They quoted me $7000 Cdn before labour!!!!


Lutron Grafik Eye 3106 here in Canada is $1199. You do the US to CDN dollar conversion and you'll notice a big difference.


BTX Motor Drape is $899 from what I was quoted, again way more than the US cost.


Only thing I saved on was the renders, which Chirpie is handling now... and that is only because I used Rubens room as a starting point. So thanks Ruben for saving me a few bucks, I can really use it at this part of the build...lol


By the way Ruben Thanks for the price list, It lets me know all of the materials I will need!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sometimes I wish I lived in the states, Ruben you have gotten some amazing deals. I said 20K because I figured you already had the equipment for the room. as i do, So I was basing it off what the room costs to build.
> 
> 
> The things that suck for me here in Canada are:
> 
> 
> The Berkline 075 chairs, I believe you paid $4600 for 7 chairs in Leather/microfabric
> 
> Here in Canada for 5 in leather/Microfabric will cost me $6500 Cdn. I wish I had an address in the states so I could get in on the current powerbuy and then just ship them to Canada from there. I wonder what you would have paid for 5 chairs?
> 
> 
> The star ceiling, if I order from Fosi they quoted me roughly $2100 US which isnt bad considering I have a bigger ceiling. But If I bought the Fiber Optic Ceiling from the local theater store here, They quoted me $7000 Cdn before labour!!!!
> 
> 
> Lutron Grafik Eye 3106 here in Canada is $1199. You do the US to CDN dollar conversion and you'll notice a big difference.
> 
> 
> BTX Motor Drape is $899 from what I was quoted, again way more than the US cost.
> 
> 
> Only thing I saved on was the renders, which Chirpie is handling now... and that is only because I used Rubens room as a starting point. So thanks Ruben for saving me a few bucks, I can really use it at this part of the build...lol
> 
> 
> By the way Ruben Thanks for the price list, It lets me know all of the materials I will need!



Collin you were right on with the build price. The equipment I owned already for a while except a few items I purchased recently.


The BTX Motordrape I got is a loud Piece of crap that I got ripped off on. You can get the same thing on eBay for $150.00 without it's brand name.


The Grafik Eye I got on eBay, found a good deal on it.


The Renders I done over 5 times thats why it was more than yours.


The Berklines were $680.00 each with shipping included.


I bought All my fiber parts at fiberopticproducts.com I over bought materials and sold the left overs to someone on AVS. They are still in business.


The Key is to hunt for Deals on Google and eBay. Whenever I need to buy something, I research It thoroughly now. Its so easy to do with the internet.


Like right now I'm looking at Remote controls and I am considering the Aurora MX-950 RF, It goes for $699.00 but I found it for $375.00


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

what drape system would you recommend?


I will try fiberopticsproducts.com thanks for the heads up. I know nothing about fiber optic ceilings so I guess it's time for some research. What materials would I need to buy from them to fill a 20x11 ceiling? The Theater room ceiling will be 23 x 15 so I figure after the soffits and veneer work this is likely the space I will have to fill with stars, Is that a correct assumption?


The biggest expense for me is the Berkiline seats, I have found a bunch of great deals online for them. But all of them including the place you got yours tell me they cannot ship to Canada. They all tell me to find an address in the states they can ship them to and then have whoever I ship them to in the states ship them to me! Problem is, I know noone in the states so I am stuck with the only store here in Ottawa that wants to overcharge me an arm and a leg for them. It's really shi**y. lol


For my equipment I have everything right now except the projector which I am undecided on, most likely the Ruby 2 if it comes out with better light output and the screen which will be an AT Screen and I am just waiting on your audio tests for your material. Dont wanna have to pony up all that money for the screen research model but I will if I have to I guess. I saw one at my Calibrators house and it looked amazing, but that was with nothing to compare it to right beside it.


Sorry for the long post with tons of questions.


----------



## SmX

This is pretty much the same track and motor I got but without the BTX name $119.00


Go to eBay and search for motorized curtain, then look for the Remote Control RC Motorized Window Drapery Curtain Rod for $119.00



Call Fiberopticproducts.com and tell them your ceiling size and they will tell you Everything you need.


A Ruby 2 is coming out?


Chairs I can't help you with.


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

The Ruby 2 will be out by the time i am done my room..lol atleast 6 months, only starting to build in 2-3months. If it isn't out then I will go for a 3 chip DLP of some sort.


Thanks for the drapes link.


Didn't expect you to help me out on the chairs, just letting you know how lucky you are to get them at that price compared to if you lived in Canada. 5 chairs at your price is $3400 US which is under $4000 CDN compar that to $6500 CDN and Icould buy apower amp or an overpriced Screen or etc etc...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Ruby 2 will be out by the time i am done my room..lol atleast 6 months, only starting to build in 2-3months. If it isn't out then I will go for a 3 chip DLP of some sort.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the drapes link.
> 
> 
> Didn't expect you to help me out on the chairs, just letting you know how lucky you are to get them at that price compared to if you lived in Canada. 5 chairs at your price is $3400 US which is under $4000 CDN compar that to $6500 CDN and Icould buy apower amp or an overpriced Screen or etc etc...



Check Your PM


----------



## richlo

[

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Total Cost of Build, Equipment and DVDs for Theater $70,271.16*


-------------------------------------------------------------------------


[/quote]


Somewhere at the bottom I was expecting the word PRICELESS until I ran into this number.







.but I saw someone else spend $100K - albeit - very nice theater -but not even close to what you did - IM SO IMPRESSED by folks like you who have wicked skills to build and to be able to have the patient for details...I truly envy you for it and the rest of the fellas here...I use to be impressed putting a light fixture up and that is not running the electrical myself..I feel sheepish...


IM AM NOT WORTHY!!!heheheh..I have a huge unfinished basement - yep say what you gotta say about cold Chicago - but I love that we have basements - you should know by being or living in South Bronx....My vision is there but I feel like the HOME DEPOT commercial...I AM NOT AN ELECTRICAN, I AM NOT A PAINTER,etc...


----------



## miltimj

You can basically figure it at around $50K since most don't include DVDs in the cost, he hired out a bit of it (not that nobody else does.. just pointing that out), and a couple of things he mentioned that he didn't need (motorized drapes could be cheaper, etc).


That's a darn good theater for $50K, and assuming you have most of your own gear, it's more like $20K. Thanks for the detailed list, Ruben.


Now a question for you, Ruben.. Where in general did you get a few of your supplies? (By in general, I mean the types of stores you looked for as I'm not sure where to begin with some of your supplies.. I realize that I won't be able to go to the same store you did if it's B&M) Specifically, I'm curious about:


- Veneer & Glue

- Quarter/Half rounds

- Particle board (HD/Lowe's? I remember seeing MDF, but not necessarily particle board)

- Red oak plywood (is this the standard oak plywood like at HD?)

- 1,000 DVDs (j/k...)


----------



## DodgeViper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can basically figure it at around $50K since most don't include DVDs in the cost, he hired out a bit of it (not that nobody else does.. just pointing that out), and a couple of things he mentioned that he didn't need (motorized drapes could be cheaper, etc).
> 
> 
> That's a darn good theater for $50K, and assuming you have most of your own gear, it's more like $20K. Thanks for the detailed list, Ruben.
> 
> 
> Now a question for you, Ruben.. Where in general did you get a few of your supplies? (By in general, I mean the types of stores you looked for as I'm not sure where to begin with some of your supplies.. I realize that I won't be able to go to the same store you did if it's B&M) Specifically, I'm curious about:
> 
> 
> - Veneer & Glue
> 
> - Quarter/Half rounds
> 
> - Particle board (HD/Lowe's? I remember seeing MDF, but not necessarily particle board)
> 
> - Red oak plywood (is this the standard oak plywood like at HD?)
> 
> - 1,000 DVDs (j/k...)



Any good hardwood supply shop in your area will carry veneer, hardwoods, half-rounds. Loew's and Home Depot will carry the veneer plywood but make sure of what your buying. Red Oak, white Oak, etc... Veneers come in a peel and stick or where you have to use a contact cement.


You may try this online company for your veneers...

VENEER


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok Mike, You gotta be more than a "nut" man. I was gonna make the same comment and you beat me to it. Is your background in engineering?
> 
> 
> Joe



My degree is in economics, but I was a Physics/Computer Science dual major in college for a while. I also was half way through the training and licensing to become a nuclear reactor operator. I could'a been Homer! Doh!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can basically figure it at around $50K since most don't include DVDs in the cost, he hired out a bit of it (not that nobody else does.. just pointing that out), and a couple of things he mentioned that he didn't need (motorized drapes could be cheaper, etc).
> 
> 
> That's a darn good theater for $50K, and assuming you have most of your own gear, it's more like $20K. Thanks for the detailed list, Ruben.
> 
> 
> Now a question for you, Ruben.. Where in general did you get a few of your supplies? (By in general, I mean the types of stores you looked for as I'm not sure where to begin with some of your supplies.. I realize that I won't be able to go to the same store you did if it's B&M) Specifically, I'm curious about:
> 
> 
> - Veneer & Glue
> 
> - Quarter/Half rounds
> 
> - Particle board (HD/Lowe's? I remember seeing MDF, but not necessarily particle board)
> 
> - Red oak plywood (is this the standard oak plywood like at HD?)
> 
> - 1,000 DVDs (j/k...)



Thanks Man!


I posted about where I bought all my specialty supplies in THIS POST 


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richlo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *Total Cost of Build, Equipment and DVDs for Theater $70,271.16*
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------





> Quote:
> Somewhere at the bottom I was expecting the word PRICELESS until I ran into this number.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .but I saw someone else spend $100K - albeit - very nice theater -but not even close to what you did - IM SO IMPRESSED by folks like you who have wicked skills to build and to be able to have the patient for details...I truly envy you for it and the rest of the fellas here...I use to be impressed putting a light fixture up and that is not running the electrical myself..I feel sheepish...
> 
> 
> IM AM NOT WORTHY!!!heheheh..I have a huge unfinished basement - yep say what you gotta say about cold Chicago - but I love that we have basements - you should know by being or living in South Bronx....My vision is there but I feel like the HOME DEPOT commercial...I AM NOT AN ELECTRICAN, I AM NOT A PAINTER,etc...



Thanks for your kind words Rich. It feels good to see people that appreciate your work and style when it's all done.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J-dubb16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Now that is impressive. I think you would win any under $75K HT competition.
> 
> 
> J-dubb



Thanks Man. Once I get the column covers completed, the screen up, and the rug dyed I will have my friend come over and shoot some professional shots of the room. he has super wide angle lenses and pro lighting.


Ruben


----------



## mhussey

Ruben,


Are you going to use your HT to shoot any of your videos? : ) It would make a nice backdrop, unique theme, and good acoustics! Might want to bring in different seating though,... maybe a "love seat" or two.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Like right now I'm looking at Remote controls and I am considering the Aurora MX-950 RF, It goes for $699.00 but I found it for $375.00
> 
> 
> Ruben



If I were you, and because you have MainLobby, I would look at wireless touch screen panels for your remotes. I have been playing around quite a bit with those and the ability to change the look and feel of the remote at any time is wonderful. I can also log onto different accounts on the server so that each touch screen can have different looks and feels and different functionality. For example, our pool room is going to be dark reds and so I can have the on-wall remote matching the decor of the room. The best thing is that my wife is already convinced and she likes the way the new "remotes" work. We even have one in the kitchen that most of the time is displaying the weather but can also control all of the lights in the house. (I am working on connecting it to the main house stereo and having it manage the different zones.)


And no, I am not a Cinemar dealer.










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is pretty much the same track and motor I got but without the BTX name $119.00
> 
> 
> Go to eBay and search for motorized curtain, then look for the Remote Control RC Motorized Window Drapery Curtain Rod for $119.00
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



But didn't you say is was noisy and crummy?


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My degree is in economics, but I was a Physics/Computer Science dual major in college for a while. I also was half way through the training and licensing to become a nuclear reactor operator. I could'a been Homer! Doh!



Hmmm, but isn't he a donut man?







(LOL at my own dumb humor.)


Joe


----------



## SJac




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Finishing Touch's*
> 
> $4,600.00 for 7 Leather/Microfabric chairs Delivered.
> 
> 
> *
> *


*


Ruben, I loved the chairs you got. I am getting very different quotes from leather-direct. The ones you got were all leather+microfiber or leather+vinyl+microfiber (also known as leather plus)? Were they manual recline or power recline? If I remember it right, you did not order buttkickers. Please let me know.


Waiting for the pictures of the completed room!!!*


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I were you, and because you have MainLobby, I would look at wireless touch screen panels for your remotes. I have been playing around quite a bit with those and the ability to change the look and feel of the remote at any time is wonderful. I can also log onto different accounts on the server so that each touch screen can have different looks and feels and different functionality. For example, our pool room is going to be dark reds and so I can have the on-wall remote matching the decor of the room. The best thing is that my wife is already convinced and she likes the way the new "remotes" work. We even have one in the kitchen that most of the time is displaying the weather but can also control all of the lights in the house. (I am working on connecting it to the main house stereo and having it manage the different zones.)
> 
> 
> And no, I am not a Cinemar dealer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



I have the Cinemar package already and even Mario recommended using a non touch screen in the theater. He said that you don't always want to be looking at the remote trying to find a push button that lights up the whole room (which is true for me).


So the regular remote is probably more idea for me. I had the crestron system before and It was a total nightmare for me.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mhussey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Are you going to use your HT to shoot any of your videos? : ) It would make a nice backdrop, unique theme, and good acoustics! Might want to bring in different seating though,... maybe a "love seat" or two.



Those chairs are love seats already







Keep your eyes open


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But didn't you say is was noisy and crummy?
> 
> 
> Joe



Yep for $500. For $150.00 you can't be mad at it.

I feel I got really ripped off on that purchase.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SJac* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I loved the chairs you got. I am getting very different quotes from leather-direct. The ones you got were all leather+microfiber or leather+vinyl+microfiber (also known as leather plus)? Were they manual recline or power recline? If I remember it right, you did not order buttkickers. Please let me know.
> 
> 
> Waiting for the pictures of the completed room!!!



Good question. Well I didn't ask for all leather specifically. So it may be the leather plus. It is such a good match that I can't tell the difference and I'm usually very picky about that kind of stuff.


They are not electric recline either. No buttkickers either at the moment.


I just check the Invoice they are leather plus.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Wow, Half a day for AVS to re-index threads. I wonder if Rubens massive DIY thread caused this...........


----------



## SJac

Thanks Ruben. I will be ordering them tomorrow!


This thread was such a motivatiion and I am already working on the sketches for my theater.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can basically figure it at around $50K since most don't include DVDs in the cost, he hired out a bit of it (not that nobody else does.. just pointing that out)....



Wait a sec, not all of us hire out for help! I had my wife help and a friend for a few hours, otherwise it was all me! I had a carpet installer put the carpet on the back riser and an HVAC guy install more ducting for the room, but that was it.


Of coarse, I didn't do all the columns and a screen wall and and and....



BTW, I was showing my wife some of the great builds going on right now and she was asking if we could do a bigger screen... I told her we could, but only if I brought it out and away from the wall it is mounted on now, since we have a column that has to be there since there is ducting for the water heater behind it... I don't think she wanted to deal with all that, so she said no.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, I was showing my wife some of the great builds going on right now and she was asking if we could do a bigger screen... I told her we could, but only if I brought it out and away from the wall it is mounted on now, since we have a column that has to be there since there is ducting for the water heater behind it... I don't think she wanted to deal with all that, so she said no.



Scott,


I'm considering making my screen slightly larger also. I always wanted something larger but was concerned about SDE. I think I'll do the 'ole sheet trick and see what I can tolerate. Hmm, 10' sounds great right now







Realistically, I could squeeze out 9'. Anything more would push the columns on either side of the screen too close to the walls -- not good since they hold the speakers.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait a sec, not all of us hire out for help! I had my wife help and a friend for a few hours, otherwise it was all me! I had a carpet installer put the carpet on the back riser and an HVAC guy install more ducting for the room, but that was it.



I'm not sure where you got the impression that I meant that, Scott. I was just subtracting the hired out amount from the total since, as you said, not everyone hires out; my comment in parenthesis was to not berate him for it..


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure where you got the impression that I meant that, Scott. I was just subtracting the hired out amount from the total since, as you said, not everyone hires out; my comment in parenthesis was to not berate him for it..



I never took it as berating him for it, but I still read it wrong. Sorry. I thought you were saying that nobody does it all on their own.... No harm, no foul.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm considering making my screen slightly larger also. I always wanted something larger but was concerned about SDE. I think I'll do the 'ole sheet trick and see what I can tolerate. Hmm, 10' sounds great right now Realistically, I could squeeze out 9'. Anything more would push the columns on either side of the screen too close to the walls -- not good since they hold the speakers.



Well, the old sheet trick won't give me anything except a smaller image on a bigger looking screen, since my projector location is fixed. Unless I either get a new projector, different lens or move it, I can't do anything about it.


If I was to do anything, I would probably use something like Ruben's screen material and build some smaller main speakers so I can have all three behind the screen. I could go about 2 feet wider, but unless I was to shorten my equipment rack, I would be limited in height. I could shorten the rack pretty easilly though if I was seriously considering this. Heck, my projector is getting close to 5 years old now, maybe it's time for a new one?!







Problem is, I am just now reaching 1000 hours on the projector. I picked up a few more hobies after building the theater and don't use it as much as some others on the forum.


----------



## miltimj

Not a problem..











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I was to do anything, I would probably use something like Ruben's screen material and build some smaller main speakers so I can have all three behind the screen. I could go about 2 feet wider, but unless I was to shorten my equipment rack, I would be limited in height. I could shorten the rack pretty easilly though if I was seriously considering this. Heck, my projector is getting close to 5 years old now, maybe it's time for a new one?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Problem is, I am just now reaching 1000 hours on the projector. I picked up a few more hobies after building the theater and don't use it as much as some others on the forum.



Now that sounds like a great excuse to go with an AT screen.. And it'd be cheap as well! Maybe go with a 2.35 screen, then you wouldn't need to shorten your rack, although you'd need an anamorphic lens.


----------



## eshukoor

Mr Ruben ,you like to put a courtain on the screen ???


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, I was showing my wife some of the great builds going on right now and she was asking if we could do a bigger screen... I told her we could, but only if I brought it out and away from the wall it is mounted on now, since we have a column that has to be there since there is ducting for the water heater behind it... I don't think she wanted to deal with all that, so she said no.



Oh man, You must be newly married. Too complete in your honesty







You should have answered "yes" and just left the details alone until you were done with the demolition. (I hope my wife doesn't see this post.)


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not a problem..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now that sounds like a great excuse to go with an AT screen.. And it'd be cheap as well! Maybe go with a 2.35 screen, then you wouldn't need to shorten your rack, although you'd need an anamorphic lens.



Tim, I am going to go and do more research but can't you do the 2.35 via an htPC? And if so, what is the difference between doing it with the htPC vs an A.Lens?


Joe


----------



## david_pflanzer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim, I am going to go and do more research but can't you do the 2.35 via an htPC? And if so, what is the difference between doing it with the htPC vs an A.Lens?
> 
> 
> Joe



You can do it witout a lens but in that situation you are not using all the brightness or pixels that your projector offers (since there are no native 2.35:1 projectors). An anamorphic lens takes an output of 16:9 or 4:3 and optically transforms it to the desired aspect ratio.


David


----------



## eshukoor

Mr Ruben, I am looking your construction it is amazing one ,let me ask a single question from India. would you like to design a curtain on your screen ? like some theaters in India.

thanks

an Indian guy.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim, I am going to go and do more research but can't you do the 2.35 via an htPC? And if so, what is the difference between doing it with the htPC vs an A.Lens?
> 
> 
> Joe



As David was alluding to, to do a constant height setup "correctly" (maximum benefit from it), other than the appropriate projector and screen, of course, you need two things:


1) A scaler to crop the black bars and then vertically stretch the actual image. This could be an external video processor/scaler, a projector with that functionality, or an HTPC.

2) An anamorphic lens that will either horizontally stretch the image or vertically squeeze it back to the correct aspect ratio.


See the 2.35:1 CH forum FAQ for more details..


----------



## LewisCobb

Reading every response it has taken me a time span of 5 days to get to the end of this thread - mind you a few things got in the way like sleeping and having to pretend to work at my desk at work from time to time.


Hats off to you Ruben - the best design and best load of info in one place I have ever seen.


Cheers from up here in Canada,

Lewis


----------



## Frank D




CollinViegas said:


> BTX Motor Drape is $899 from what I was quoted, again way more than the US cost.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> Another option is this: http://htiq.com/index.html
> 
> 
> There is a power buy until Feb 28, 2005 on his masking too in this forum over hear:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640959
> 
> 
> His curtain rod system has ability to contain various stops and can also be used for a constant height (CH) screen.
> 
> 
> His curtain system is not as cheap as the one Ruben pointed out on ebay (by the way great find Ruben) but it appears more versatile (can have preset stops) and may be quieter (not sure as I have not heard it operate in person).
> 
> 
> The curtain system is listed on his website at $699. Furthermore I have spoke to the owner, Don, and he is a very helpful guy (others stated this as well) and answers calls directly himself.


----------



## ebr

Hey Sandman - I was looking back in the thread to get dimensions of your space (to compare with what I'm about to be working with) and I wondered if you actually ended up with the dimensions you had originally planned?


You said in the very beginning that the finished room width would be 16' but then, when I asked about your stage size you said it was 178" wide (just under 15'). You also said the distance from screen to front row was going to be over 11' but it doesn't look like it in the pictures (but the pictures can be deceiving, I know).


Anyway, if you get the chance, can you post the actual dimensions as built (interested in width and in the distance between your platform and stage)? Or, if you just tell me what the size of that tile pattern on the floor is, I can figure it out (I'm guessing they're 14" x 14")







.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandman - I was looking back in the thread to get dimensions of your space (to compare with what I'm about to be working with) and I wondered if you actually ended up with the dimensions you had originally planned?
> 
> 
> You said in the very beginning that the finished room width would be 16' but then, when I asked about your stage size you said it was 178" wide (just under 15'). You also said the distance from screen to front row was going to be over 11' but it doesn't look like it in the pictures (but the pictures can be deceiving, I know).
> 
> 
> Anyway, if you get the chance, can you post the actual dimensions as built (interested in width and in the distance between your platform and stage)? Or, if you just tell me what the size of that tile pattern on the floor is, I can figure it out (I'm guessing they're 14" x 14")
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Here are the exact final measurements of the room 179" x 244" x 108" or 14'-11" x 20'-4" x 9'.


It's 110" from the very front center of the stage step to the front middle of the platform.


The distance from the screen to the front row eyes (not reclined) is exactly 120".


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Awesome. Thanks mucho.


----------



## SmX

Hey Folks,


I'm thinking about selling my new chairs and getting all Microfabric like Art Sonnebergs chairs. I also think I'm going to do all black chairs with maybe red pinstripes, what do to think? I got a couple guys that are interested in buying these off me and I am really considering selling. If anyone here is interested in these as well, please PM me.


I took 3 chairs out the boxes and set them Up to snap some pictures. What do you guys think? Is it too much Red in the room? Be honest. The pictures look Extra red as usual and the chairs look shiny (which they aren't) due to shining a light on them.


----------



## richlo

I think the chairs look excellent in that room...There is no way I would sell them..


----------



## SJac

Those chairs are fabulous. Keep them.

If you insist, add some black to the wall!! May be make the alternate panels black.


----------



## miltimj

I agree, with the amount of black vs red in the room already (seems to be about 40/60), the chairs are just about right. Perhaps a slightly wider black for the seat and back, but it's really not a big deal. I certainly think that black chairs with some red accents wouldn't be enough red. The chairs look awesome in that room... I'm just trying to be as picky as you are..


----------



## ebr

I think the chairs look awesome and go well with the room. If you go with black chairs, they will likely "disappear" into the carpet.


Having said that, I definitely prefer the microfibre over leather for HT use. Warmer, doesn't slide, doesn't "squeak", etc. Also, the one huge faux pas (pardon me for saying that as most of what you've done is just outstanding) that I see in this whole setup is the lack of power recline on those chairs. That is, IMO, the best money spent on the Berks. Not just because its "cool" but because it is so much more functional than the manual option.


So, if it were me, it would be a real hard decision because those chairs do match the room very well but wouldn't be as functional as I would like.


----------



## Frank D




SandmanX said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> 
> I'm thinking about selling my new chairs and getting all Microfabric like Art Sonnebergs chairs. I also think I'm going to do all black chairs with maybe red pinstripes, what do to think? I got a couple guys that are interested in buying these off me and I am really considering selling. If anyone here is interested in these as well, please PM me.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> What are your reasons for going Microfabric vs the leather?


----------



## CollinViegas

Ya they look horrible.. I will buy them to put in my almost exact same room because I love horrible. lol


No seriously they look awesome, We were speaking the other night about 2 of them, but what are you considering selling them for? PM me if you would like, you know I am interested.


are you only selling all 7 or is it by chair? I dont wanna go more than 5 as we discussed on the phone and I also want atleast the front 2 to be power recline, because that's were me and the wife will be sitting.


Everyone else should be happy to be able to even recline at all....lol


Let me know Ruben.


----------



## richlo

Btw..for comparison - can you put some pix of the Art Sonnebergs chairs...I have no idea what they look like


----------



## bpape

I think they really set it off. They're certainly different.


Heck, it almost looks as good as Reaper's renders...


----------



## KWhite

I don't know, looks pretty cool to me... got any pictures of the alternatives?


----------



## mrhdvrod

 http://www.artsonneborn.com//html/new_ht_1.html 


thats a link to Arts Theater


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, have you thought of a name for your theater yet? SandmanX theater? No, can't be that simple. How about "Redrum"? You can pronounce it "Red Room", but we all know what Redrum is, or at least all of us that like movies....

*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) Spoiler  
*Warning: Spoiler!* (Click to show) It was used in "The Shining" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0081505/


----------



## SmX

Thanks Guys for all the input. I think what's throwing me off is the all red walls. Once the black column grills go up it should break the room up more. I was waiting on some more cotton to arrive to stuff them and get the grills on them.


As far as not getting powered chairs this time, the last time I got them I had allot of problems with them. I just kept it simple this time. The chairs are fully functional to us without a motor in them. You guys are getting too lazy anyway










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Man Theater Automation is the Coolest thing. I had an older Harmony 688 Remote here that I use in my Media room and I wiped It out to reprogram the Theater components. It took about 20 minutes to quickly set up the whole room online and download the script to the remote to mess around with.


On the first try... Now I hit the watch Movie button on the Remote, the Lights dim to my selected scene, Star Ceiling Dims too, the movie curtains open, the PJ turns on and goes to the correct input, the HTPC turns on and goes to the Movies and the Receiver turns on and selects the correct audio input. I even have a DVI switcher that gets switched to the proper input the remote selects the correct Aspect Ratio for the HTPC.


Once I hit off on the remote, it shuts down all the equipment and turns the lights back up to Full Mode and closes the movie curtains.


I think I'm going to stick with the New Harmony 890 RF Remote. It like the look and feel to it and I'm already familiar with the set up.


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Does the 890 RF base station have the ability to connect emitters to it? From the picture it looks like its just a blaster - which means it has to sit out in front of all your gear (which does me no good).


I've felt that RF is the one thing that Harmony is missing. I hope they haven't crippled it now that they have it...


UPDATE: Sandman - you got me researching this remote and I think I've uncovered that it has a LOT of problems. Check out the forum on remotecentral (and even the logitech site). Lots of bugs in this thing - especially the RF functionality. I think I'll stick with my MX-800RF for now - its been rock solid. Maybe by the time I need it, though, the Harmony will have the bugs worked out.


----------



## richlo

Ruben -


Do you actually work in construction/building for a living??


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does the 890 RF base station have the ability to connect emitters to it? From the picture it looks like its just a blaster - which means it has to sit out in front of all your gear (which does me no good).
> 
> 
> I've felt that RF is the one thing that Harmony is missing. I hope they haven't crippled it now that they have it...
> 
> 
> UPDATE: Sandman - you got me researching this remote and I think I've uncovered that it has a LOT of problems. Check out the forum on remotecentral (and even the logitech site). Lots of bugs in this thing - especially the RF functionality. I think I'll stick with my MX-800RF for now - its been rock solid. Maybe by the time I need it, though, the Harmony will have the bugs worked out.



Yeah I read all the bad stuff about the 890 too. There was also allot of bad stuff about the 688 when I bought it and I never had an issue with it. It seems most the problems are with people trying to use the RF through different floors in thier House. I will be using It in one room so maybe the 880 will be fill as well. I have the Xantech Eye in front of the room and it seems to be very powerfull. I pointed my remote in the Opposite direction and everything still worked.


You can also connect 1/8" IR remitters to the 890 Base as you asked.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I'll stick with my MX-800RF for now - its been rock solid. Maybe by the time I need it, though, the Harmony will have the bugs worked out.



Look into the MX950, Its amazing and works with your RF base station. We are using 1 RF receiver centered in the attic and it works 2 stories below and through many walls. Great looking/ feeling remote, we tried the MX 850 but found it clunky for whole house use


----------



## sony1272owner

No!!!!!!!!! Keep The Chairs They Really Set Off The Home Theater Look


Darkman


----------



## ebr

Thanks, Mark. I'll check it out.


And Ruben, thanks for the definitive answer on the Harmony base station.


----------



## SmX

Update:


Today we Ripped open the wall that use to be a door to the garage. Instead of having a door leading to another door, I opened the wall up to flow with the house. I know 2 doors is better than one for sound blocking, but it just didn't feel right. I want the Theater to be part of the home, not a hidden extension of it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

My Friend gave me a real good idea to save space and reduce heat in the main equipment rack. He said that I should put my 2 monoblock amps right up behind the screen wall next to the Main front speakers. This will free up a good amount of space in the rack to get another Jukebox and rack mounted xBox in there.


Ruben


----------



## miltimj

Sure, and the heat could simply radiate and have plenty of airflow around them. The downside is running longer low voltage interconnects and then amplifying the possibly slightly degraded/corrupted signal, instead of amplifying an assumed clean signal from 3 ft interconnects and sending the powered signal down longer speaker wires.


----------



## johnbr

I also think that the chairs look KILL in the room but I also love the look of the chairs.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sure, and the heat could simply radiate and have plenty of airflow around them. The downside is running longer low voltage interconnects and then amplifying the possibly slightly degraded/corrupted signal, instead of amplifying an assumed clean signal from 3 ft interconnects and sending the powered signal down longer speaker wires.



So what's better, pushing lots of clean power over long speaker wire runs and allowing the power to degrade with the length of cable or using long, low voltage, shielded cables and short high-power speaker wire?


----------



## KWhite

Running high quality, sheilded, balanced cables will not result in any loss or noise and having the amps close to the speakers will have the added benefit of a higher dampening factor - tighter bass.


----------



## BFauska

As long as the cables are run properly (avoiding noise sources like power runs) and well shielded you should be fine with the amps at the speakers, the only time to worry about long line-level runs is if you can't properly protect the signal from interference.


THOSE CHAIRS MAKE YOUR ALREADY FANTASTIC ROOM LOOK EVEN MORE UNBELIEVABLE... DON'T CHANGE THEM. well if YOU want to change them then it would be stupid to leave them, but I think I made my vote clear, they match the room perfectly.


Later,

Brian


----------



## SmX

Well besides getting all the demolition done for the theater entrance today, we brought all the Speakers in the theater and got them mounted in place. I may have to wrap the Mains with speaker grill cloth or use the black backing on the AT screen. They may be a bit reflective without it. I was Shining 2 bright 150 watt lights directly on them to take these pictures. The room absorbs soo much light, which is a good thing







The cables in the back will be tied down behind the black cotton muslin cloth.


The Mains are Martin Logan Odysseys. The Dimensions are 67" tall x 13" wide x 27" deep. Handles 250 watts each. Sensitivity: 90 dB/2.83 volts/meter

Weight 105 lbs each. These were fun carrying from one side of my house to the other





































The Center channel is a Martin Logan Theater. I think this is the biggest center channel made.









The Dimensions on it are 43" x 13" x 11.5" and weighs 57 lbs.

Handles 250 watts











These are the rear Surrounds and 2 others will be used for the sides. Thery are the Martin Logan Scripts. The Dimensions are 43.9" tall x 10.2" wide x 6.8" deep and weight 25 lbs each. Handles 150 watts. Sensitivity: 89 dB/2.83 volts/meter





























Ruben


----------



## sony1272owner

Sorry Sandman,


But it seems such a shame to hide your Martin Logan Odysseys behide your screen.


I would have those masterpieces front and center. Still great Ht wish i had your job


so i could afford those babies . Keeep up the great work !!!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sony1272owner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry Sandman,
> 
> 
> But it seems such a shame to hide your Martin Logan Odysseys behide your screen.
> 
> 
> I would have those masterpieces front and center. Still great Ht wish i had your job
> 
> 
> so i could afford those babies . Keeep up the great work !!!!



Don't be Sorry, it's ok







I had these speakers for a while and they are nothing new to me. Anyway, I think they may be overkill for the room. I may swap them out for some Martin Logan Aeon-i's I have which are a little bigger than the surrounds and they are floor standing.


Ruben


----------



## David Ferguson

I think you should use a third Odyssey for your center channel -- that would really be the largest center channel they make.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Ferguson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you should use a third Odyssey for your center channel -- that would really be the largest center channel they make.



Actually The Martin Logan Statement E would be the biggest Martin Logan Center Channel


----------



## JimmyMack

Mighty fine theater. I guess I'll be the only one with the opinion that you should sell the seats. There *is* such thing as too much dazzle. My taste runs more toward the subtle. Black chairs with small red accents (or piping) would suit this room better IMO. It's a shame about hiding the speakers too. It's the only thing to do for this type of HT, however....which is why i keep my CLSIIz's on display in a separate two channel room.


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I noticed the keyboard sticking out of your rack. You should look at a rack mount keyboard. They are really nice and pop out on their own tilted tray when in use and then slide away into a 1U spot when not neded.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Back to the remote control topic,


I think there might be an advantage to making Cinemar the main control of your theater and then using a hand-held remote in the theater like you mentioned to control Cinemar instead of a totally separate system.


I only mention this because I have been working quite a bit with Cinemar lately and I am finding that the capabilities are virtually limitless. I wrote a plugin that talks to all of the legacy X10 that I have throughout the house and I am working on a plugin that communicates to my Denon receiver in my rec room via tcp/ip. I have also put a touch-screen in the kitchen that normally displays the weather but can also control all of the lights and will soon control the different audio zones in the house. Combining this with the controls necessary for a home theater is a nice advantage, imo.


This would also alow you to integrate a really nice touch panel into the lobby of your theater and it could not only show marquee information, or the trailer for the upcoming movie, but also control every aspect of the theater and other areas of your house. Especially for a guy like you who is so video based, with flash as the gui for Cinemar the look and feel is open to the imagination.


Just some thoughts at 4AM...


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I noticed the keyboard sticking out of your rack. You should look at a rack mount keyboard. They are really nice and pop out on their own tilted tray when in use and then slide away into a 1U spot when not neded.
> 
> 
> Joe



The HTPC has a built in touch screen with a keyboard on the screen. I was just installing the software to get to that point. So I needed a hardware keyboard for that. That keyboard your talking about sounds awesome though, I will check it out.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SJac




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I may swap them out for some Martin Logan Aeon-i's I have which are a little bigger than the surrounds and they are floor standing.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Just an FYI - They are discontinuing the Aeon-i's. The replacement model (expected in June) is called Vista. Aeon-is are fine speakers and are being sold at discounted prices now.


----------



## nvarner

Sandman,


Looks great! I sent you a PM back in December. Did you get it? Currently, we are framing the ceilings in my theatre. I have few questions

I will be using ML speakers also as I love them. My speakers are the ML Clarity(L &R), Fresco Center, Vingnette Surrounds. The ML towers require a clearance from the wall, how are you addressing that, if at all.

Also what sound card did you decide to use in your HTPC and to what components did you attach the card and how will you be using the card?


----------



## mmmkam

Seats might look cool in all black with the just the seat and back section in red where it is black now. Basically invert the colors but keep the arms all black.


I think it will look great ether way!


By the way did you ever post a pic of the final hidden door details? I saw the partially constructed one, but I dont remember seeing any of the hidden push button release in the moulding that you mentioned a couple hundred posts back.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sony1272owner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry Sandman,
> 
> 
> But it seems such a shame to hide your Martin Logan Odysseys behide your screen.
> 
> 
> I would have those masterpieces front and center.



Ruben, you can do what I have seen them do at IMAX theaters and have some lights that shine on the speakers when the rest of the lights are either dim or off, so you can see through the screen (also shows that the screen is transparent), then have them go off when the projector turns on.... Don't know how well it would work with your screen material, whatever you end up using, but you could always try it first using a flashlight.


----------



## Nabs17

Sandman,


Credit should be given when and where it is due and what you have done so far is pretty amazing and your theater is one of the best looking on this forum. I've gone through this entire thread and can only say "WOW" and felt the need to let you know how good your theater is looking. I have a theater in my house but have been toying with the idea of turning my 3 car garage into a bigger/better theater and seeing what you have done is really inspiring.


Very, very good work.


----------



## V.X.Donique

Ruben I've been following both of your threads since their inceptions, and I have to commend you for such great ideas and intestinal fortitude to push the envelope......and watch it bend.


-V


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vashon Donique* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben I've been following both of your threads since their inceptions, and I have to commend you for such great ideas and intestinal fortitude to push the envelope......and watch it bend.
> 
> 
> -V



Just _bend_ ? I think he is close to putting a tear in the space-time continuum.










Joe


----------



## J-dubb16

SandmanX,


I noticed you have Sony 777ES mega changers, how do you like these. I am thinking about these for my room, but the mega changers just seem to never be as good as a inexpensive single disc player like the Oppo, well except for the fact you have 3 boxes with 1200 DVDs in them










J-dubb


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J-dubb16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> 
> I noticed you have Sony 777ES mega changers, how do you like these. I am thinking about these for my room, but the mega changers just seem to never be as good as a inexpensive single disc player like the Oppo, well except for the fact you have 3 boxes with 1200 DVDs in them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-dubb



These Sonys perform rather well. I did a comparison to my HTPC before I bought the rest of them. I was worried about the quality of them as well, as I got use to my Pioneer dv59avi DVD players quality. I was pleasantly surprised.


Ruben


----------



## pocoloco

Sandman...


Kudos for a great job. Your craftmanship is incredible!!!


One thing though... wondering why didn't you go with the Odysseys as your center and have an identical front soundstage. Especially given you have an AT screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pocoloco* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman...
> 
> 
> Kudos for a great job. Your craftmanship is incredible!!!
> 
> 
> One thing though... wondering why didn't you go with the Odysseys as your center and have an identical front soundstage. Especially given you have an AT screen.



Hi, thanks.


I got the center channel because it was going above my TV before.

I could not put 3 full size Speakers in front of my TV







That's whay I went with the Theater center channel, because it was the biggest matching speaker they made.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Ruben, KEEP THE CHAIRS.............


Those things are awsome. I think the colors balance is perfect.


I just hope we dont see them in a pile like your original columns.....


Ronnie


----------



## SmX

Here are the Column grills that will get painted and attached to the wood frames then wrapped with Black GoM. They have a 62% openness.


Here is my point about shopping around to save. I was about to have these made from a place in Tampa out of the same steel, gauge and hole pattern. The place in tampa was going to charge me $375.00 for 6 of these Flat (not Rolled). I would of then had to drop another $75 to get these rolled plus have to drive down to Miami to roll them.


I was searching on eBay and a guy was selling small perforated metal for $5 - $10. So I emailed him and he Said he can make all 6 and roll them for $130.00. He did them in one day and it's now a done deal. So I saved $320.00 on those.




























Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Perfect Ruben, glad you got a great deal on the grilles!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Perfect Ruben, glad you got a great deal on the grilles!



I know you like my Grills


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know you like my Grills



You wanna see my whaaaaaat?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You wanna see my whaaaaaat?



I wanna see your Grill, Ya, ya grill ya, ya, ya grill


----------



## miltimj

Ruben, did you have a couple of options with the perforated metal and choose this one for a particular reason? Any options for more openness (if there were, curious what made you choose the one you did).


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, did you have a couple of options with the perforated metal and choose this one for a particular reason? Any options for more openness (if there were, curious what made you choose the one you did).



That was the most openness available without the piece getting really weak. It has more openness than the speakers going behind them.


Ruben


----------



## J-dubb16

SandmanX,


Does your 777ES fit in you Middle Atlantic rack. I aske because it is 21.1 inches deep at the bump out and I am gettting the 20" deep rack, however, the bump out on the back may just be far enough from the edge to miss the vertical peice of the rack.


Thanks,


J-dubb


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0



That's it right there, isn't it?


Does it come in black?


----------



## J-dubb16

Yes that is it, but no, silver only. I just was not sure if he got the 26" deep rack. Altough the unit is only 17 inches wide so I am sure it will work. Thanks for finding that pic for me.


J-dubb


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J-dubb16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> 
> Does your 777ES fit in you Middle Atlantic rack. I aske because it is 21.1 inches deep at the bump out and I am gettting the 20" deep rack, however, the bump out on the back may just be far enough from the edge to miss the vertical peice of the rack.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> J-dubb



Yes it fits. The Rack shelf is about 1/4" longer than the rack.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Hey SandmanX,


I just read this review, and thought immediately of your HTPC setup. If you need liquid cooling for the HTPC, this would definately be the way to go.

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/re...trhythm&file=1


----------



## dwightrahl

Hi Ruben,


Does your Sony 777ES have that annoying "feature" where on power-up, it automatically selects the first DVD in the machine and begins playing it? I have an older Sony mega changer, and it does this - and there is no way to disable that "feature"...


Other than that, I've been very happy with the machine - the quality of video it throws seems fine to me. The user interface to the machine is a bit annoying, but hey - it does give you access to 400 discs without leaving your chair!


Thanks,


Dwight


----------



## jrfuda

The 777 does that - actually, mine usually plays the last disc played from thepoint where it stopped - a resume mode.


I think, if you put a CD in the Disc 1 slot, it gets rid of the auto play "feature."


But, as I'm reaching capacity on my changer, I will likely pull that CD out and put a DVD in there.


I've done some scripting that plays about 60 seconds of trailers (welcome to our theater, soundtrack [DD, DPL, DTS, etc.], and "now for our feature...") on my HTPC while the 777 is queing up the disc to be played. Works very nicely this way.


If we ever stop watching a movie before it's over, we simply power-down the 777, and the movie resumes where we left it when we turn it back on.


You can actually set the 777 to remember the last position of every disc in the changer, if you want - or just the last disc played (one or the other, can't have it remember some and not others). I have mine set to remember the last disc only.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, have you put the fabric on the grills yet? Got them installed yet?


Also, what have you decided (so far) about your chairs?


----------



## timbreb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dwightrahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> Does your Sony 777ES have that annoying "feature" where on power-up, it automatically selects the first DVD in the machine and begins playing it? I have an older Sony mega changer, and it does this - and there is no way to disable that "feature"...
> 
> 
> Other than that, I've been very happy with the machine - the quality of video it throws seems fine to me. The user interface to the machine is a bit annoying, but hey - it does give you access to 400 discs without leaving your chair!
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Dwight



Not to throw the thread off track but I thought I would mention a fix for this. If you are using a programable remote that can handle macros, add one in that has the 777es stop playing the disc and then stop again. The autoplay only works if a dvd was left playing when the unit was shut down.


At least that works for mine.


----------



## SmX

Small Update:


There is a little story to this update. Our cable internet and DirectTv main feed come into our Attic/Crawlspace in our 2 story home. We had to find a way to run 4 RG-6 cable runs from the attic across the whole house and down 3 floors to the theater. So conviently florida has the air exchangers for HVAC on each floor in a utility closet. My theater wall is right next to an air exchanger closet. So we were able to snake the RG-6 cables down through the Second floor utility closet to the first floor ceiling and snake it across to the theater rack. So that got done.


Now the tricky part.


My internet service is ran by cable and I have my office set up in my guest house with internet that is partially attached to the main house. I have my modem/router in the guest house. The Router I have is a Wireless Mimo Technology Belkin. This does not reach to my theater to have wireless internet. Or at least it is not powerful enough. So I went and bought 2 other wireless routers. I got 2 from Netgear and 1 from Linksys. I even got matching technology PCI wireless Cards. Well after all that crap spending a day setting each One up, none of them reached as well. The range is about 80 feet and has to go from the guest house (through brick walls) to the main house theater (through brick walls and 2 layers of 5/8" drywall).


So after thinking a few days about how to get cable internet to my theater, the options were... 1) Move my office from the guest House to the Main House, 2) Add a second internet service to run another modem or 3) firnd a way to hard wire the router in my office to my theater. So I went with option 3. This option was real tricky because there is no crawl space or anyway to snake 125 feet of Cat5 from the theater to the main house. The other option would be to break up the ground andrun rated conduit etc underground or run a ugly conduit above ground in my court yard.


So here is what we realized. The Guest house is cooled from the Exchanger on the first floor of The main house. That means they ran Flex duct from the main house to the guest house to cool it. There is also a return for makeup air.


So what do you think we did?


So we decided to try to snake the wire through the return. We got some Plenum Rated Cat5 wire to snake through. First we tried to feed a snake through with a tennis ball at the end but that kept getting stuck at one point. I think we were hitting a exchange box somewhere in the middle. So we tried snaking in the opposite direction and it was the same thing. I was about to stick one of my 3 lb dogs in there with a string and see if they make it to the other side







.


So now what? Well we did a trick that is done for other things. We took a trash bag and blew it halfway up with some air and attached a string to it. At the other end I hooked up a shop Vac to suck. Well before you knew it wallah, the bag and string came through! We will cut a Small hole at each end in the filter boxes to snake the cat5 through the walls and ceiling from there. I'm not gonna have Cat5 hanging out of the Vents










So now I have 4 RG-6 Runs and one Cat5 Run coming from the Attic to the theater. And I now have my Cat5 coming from my router in the guest house to the theater. I ran Cat5 from the attic just in case some future upgrade is needed. I will Be Using 1 RG-6 For Satellite (Direct TV), one for Digital cable, one possibly for OTA, and the 4th is for whatever may be needed in the future.


----------



## mrhdvrod

Rubin for wireless, the best in terms of distance and speed i have found is Buffallo Techs turbo G 125 series with AOSS Security, the routers are dirt cheap around 70.00 and the access cards to match are around 40.00.


I have used about every major brand of access point for clients and before this i used Proxim AP2000 series access points which have a few more features for corporate needs but do not have the same distance and speed capabilities out of the box and cost in the 500.00 range


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mrhdvrod* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rubin for wireless, the best in terms of distance and speed i have found is Buffallo Techs turbo G 125 series with AOSS Security, the routers are dirt cheap around 70.00 and the access cards to match are around 40.00.
> 
> 
> I have used about every major brand of access point for clients and before this i used Proxim AP2000 series access points which have a few more features for corporate needs but do not have the same distance and speed capabilities out of the box and cost in the 500.00 range



Thanks for that info! But I'm hard wired now and there is nothing beating that for speed










Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We took a trash bag and blew it halfway up with some air and attached a string to it. At the other end I hooked up a shop Vac to suck well before you knew it wallah, the bag and string came through!



Now thats ingenious! Is there a problem or issue you cant figure out?










Ronnie


----------



## ScottJ0007

Ruben,

You continue to amaze me!


----------



## FusionRx

Ruben: Done your MENSA test yet??







You must qualify....


----------



## jmorris644

Man, what a great idea!! I will have to remember the garbage bag idea. I have 4" flexible ductwork all over this house. Now I will be able to get wires wherever I want!!


Thanks Ruben,


Joe


----------



## chinadog

Ruben,


Very creative! Glad it worked out for you. For those that may use Linksys products, the make range extenders (scroll down some). I have a Linksys Wireless-G Range Expander that I added at the end of my wireless network and it works great. I'm able to surf the net from anywhere in the house now. When I need to work from the opposite side of the house, I just plug this device in a convenient outlet and I'm good to go. It's that simple, once it's initially set up.


Anyway, thought it may help someone out there.


Great job Ruben.


Bud


----------



## SVonhof

FYI, when I decieded that I could not live without high-speed internet access at home, I talked to my neighbor across the street. His father-in-law was living with them and was paying for cable service (TV) but was also paying for dial-up internet access. Well, they were paying for DirecTV service and cable internet. So, I convinced him that I could save them money and they could also help me out at the same time. So, I went out and bought a Linksys router/access point and helped him get the pre-wired cat-5 set up so he could hook his father-in-laws computer up to the router as well as their desktop computer to it in another room. I also bought them a laptop card so they could use that. I then went and got a card for my computer and then got a 6db gain antenna on the end of a coax cable.

They have their access point in the front of their house and my compter is in the back of my house, but with that antenna, I am able to connect at anywhere from 18-36mb/s.


I have been doing this for about 2 years now and they are still saving money, since they don't have to pay for dial-up as well and they can use their laptop anywhere, so we are both happy.


----------



## reaper

Maybe I missed it, but how does that help you?


----------



## dwightrahl

Thanks to all for the info on the 777 mega changer!


Ruben - pretty ingeneous solution regarding the routing of the CAT-5 wire. But, if I were you, I'd avoid mentioning it to the building inspector. Even though you used plenum-rated CAT-5, the "normal" intention of use for that cabling is above drop-ceilings in commercial spaces in which the entire area above the drop-ceiling is used as a cold-air return. Some municipalities specifically prohibit the use of residential ductwork as cable chases regardless of the rating of the cable used.


Personally, I don't see any issue in what you did - but, I'm not the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction)...


Dwight


----------



## ebr

Yeah, thanks from me too. I think I'll stick with my Pioneer Elite changer. It doesn't have that "feature" and the interface for choosing discs is very intuitive.


(plus, its black).


----------



## mmmkam

A buddy of mine down the road had a T1 into his place for some hosting and we were going to link up to his connection wirelessly. We got an add on high gain antenna online for about $80 hooked it up to a standard linksys access point and were surfing the web from a laptop with a usb wireless nic a half mile away.


We never got around to finishing up the perminenet connection that would have been closer to a mile, but it was a fun experiment!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Very creative! Glad it worked out for you. For those that may use Linksys products, the make range extenders (scroll down some). I have a Linksys Wireless-G Range Expander that I added at the end of my wireless network and it works great. I'm able to surf the net from anywhere in the house now. When I need to work from the opposite side of the house, I just plug this device in a convenient outlet and I'm good to go. It's that simple, once it's initially set up.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thought it may help someone out there.
> 
> 
> Great job Ruben.
> 
> 
> Bud


----------



## miltimj

Awesome idea, Ruben. Curious if the guest house is anywhere near your coax drop, so you could run the Cat-5 with it (and then to the guest house)? Obviously it's moot now... I agree that wireless vs wired doesn't compare in terms of speed (between computers in the same house.. Scott's use of it to connect to the Internet is plenty for that situation).


And now for a completely unrelated question...







For your light trays/soffit veneering, you said that you wrapped the veneer around the rounded edge for at least the two sides and back (which makes sense). However, what did you do for the front? Use two pieces? How do the corner edges match up as far as looks (compared with the side soffit corners)? I apologize if you mentioned this somewhere, but I couldn't find it... Here's the link to your light tray/soffit building post.


----------



## J-dubb16

SandmanX - your solutions to problems are truely ingenius. You should open a HT problem solving hotline.


EBR,


What don't you like about the 777ES that you do like about the Pioneer Elite. Doesn't the Elite suffer from Chromo bug?


Thanks,


J-dubb


----------



## ebr

Not to take sandman's thread too far off track, but I don't like that automatically play a disc thing when I turn the unit on. It could be gotten around, I know, but still would annoy me. Also, I don't like the silver- everything in my rack is black and the face of the equipment is in the room. Finally, somone mentioned the interface being "goofy".


Truthfully, I was looking for an excuse to "upgrade" to the new changer and these issues just don't give me that excuse







. I like having the changer and will keep it for my kids movies and some old favs, but I will likely be getting a new single disc player for my critical viewing (oppo or new hd-dvd/bd player) because the six year old Pio probably is not going to do justice to my new Ruby.


----------



## J-dubb16

Thanks EBR, we weren't going to far off track, atleast we were talking about components SandmanX has







.


SandmanX - Thanks for letting us hijack your thread for our own benefit, well atleast we are adding to your post total - trying to get you the record







.


J-dubb


----------



## SmX

I finally watched a whole movie in the Theater Last Night because my my friend wanted to see that Johnny Cash Movie "Walk the Line".


I used the Sony Jukebox to play the movie and throughout the movie I noticed a wierd macroblocking (I think) problem happening between scene changes. It would happen on some changes and not on others. Only way I can describe it is, it is horizontal lines that pop up for a couple milliseconds on a edit of the movie (or scene change).


Any case, I didn't like what I saw it reminded me of a cheap DVD player. I will watch another flick in there today maybe to see if it just wasn't the DVD.


Ruben


----------



## J-dubb16

OH NO!!!, not good if you have 3 of these things. I am not sure if this is MB that you are seeing, but I thought I read that the Sony did not have this issue.


Both of us might be interested in EBR's take on this since he has the other Mega Changer that we would probably consider.


J-dubb


----------



## theirishgonzo

all i can say is a high gain directonal antena. that is what i did exept not dorectonal


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I don't like the silver- everything in my rack is black and the face of the equipment is in the room.



You could get the face plate black anodized by a machine shop.


----------



## patrickwebb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally watched a whole movie in the Theater Last Night because my my friend wanted to see that Johnny Cash Movie "Walk the Line".



I know its probably a great movie, but _that_ was your first movie in your HT???


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *patrickwebb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know its probably a great movie, but _that_ was your first movie in your HT???



Well I guess I could say so. Even though I was watching it with the Sound Muffled behind a dirty Drop Cloth for a Screen. But I wish I could say I saw a better movie for my first flick. Also, I was in and out of the theater as it was playing, as I saw it the night before and it's one of those movies you only watch once.


Ruben


----------



## jrfuda

Ruben, man what are you doing up so early?


My 777 has never shown any signs of macroblocking. I haven't watched that particular movie on it yet, so maybe it's an issue with that movie, and not the player.


----------



## miltimj

Ruben, you can declare the official movie opening at whatever point you want..







So you can put a qualifier on that "first movie" statement if you want, and save the official first movie for something else if you so desire..


----------



## J-dubb16

We will consider that movie as a test run and de-bugging movie if you wish. Heck, your real screen was not even up.


J-dubb


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, you can declare the official movie opening at whatever point you want..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you can put a qualifier on that "first movie" statement if you want, and save the official first movie for something else if you so desire..



Thank GOD. I didn't want that movie to be the opener. Pheww!


----------



## SmX

I need your help here guys. There is a drop of 6.5" from my regular floor in my home to my theater floor. What should I do with this Drop? Should I ramp it down to the theater door or just leave a step there? See the picture below.


Also if any creative guys have some creative ideas for a marquee entrance, feel free to chime in.


Thanks for your help,

Ruben


----------



## Trim_Guy

Ruben, First off I must say what a room you have there, and thank you for sharing it with us. Because of you (THANK YOU!) and seeing the pictures my soon to be wife has let me double the budget on our HT!! A few weeks before my join date I was searching the web for a star ceiling set up and found your post, and have been a big fan since, I check in almost daily lol. Anyway I wanted to thank you, but didn't want to clutter up your thread, but I think it won't hurt now










We will be pouring our walkout basement in April and once it's framed above and the floor is poured I will be starting our HT while my framing crew is finishing up the rest, I'm a contractor, and I take pride in my finish work, I can't wait to get started, and I hope that my room will hold a flicker of light compared to yours, tho my budget isn't anywhere near yours







I hope you don't mind that I will be stealing ALOT of your info and ideas!! Anyway great job, I am sure you have inspired alot of people to step up the quality of their room.



Shawn


----------



## chinadog

I would leave the step. What sort of flooring leads to the step? Is it tile?


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would leave the step. What sort of flooring leads to the step? Is it tile?
> 
> 
> Bud



Thanks Bud, I was going to try to explain it, but a picture is worth a thousand words







See below.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## chinadog

Ugh. Did you plan on covering the tile on the lower side with anything? Maybe a piece of your theater carpet? If it was straight across in front of the step, looks like you could have put a marble threshold in, but that's not the case, unfortunately. That little vertical bump out seems to be the issue. What is the drop from the top of the marble to to top of the rough step?


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ugh. Did you plan on covering the tile on the lower side with anything? Maybe a piece of your theater carpet? If it was straight across in front of the step, looks like you could have put a marble threshold in, but that's not the case, unfortunately. That little vertical bump out seems to be the issue. What is the drop from the top of the marble to to top of the rough step?
> 
> 
> Bud



I can build the step out over to the wall on th right and Tile it to match the rest of my house floor add a bull nose or Something and carpet the Lower Part. Or Tile it all the same as the house or use a Black Tile there for the Marquee Entrance.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## chinadog

I think if you can contnue that part on the right, that'll give you a lot of options. Bull nose would work the best, IMO if you can fix that step. Even if you tile it the same as the other part of the upper floor, you still need to figure out how to end it at the step or overhang it with a bull nose. I think you've got the right idea.


Bud


----------



## SmX

I wanted to add, I am swapping that door out too. The Door that was originally to The garage is a Solid thick wood door that weighs like 100 Lbs. I didn't realize how heavy it was till we tore that wall down. The other door up now is an Exterior door from Home Depot.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think if you can contnue that part on the right, that'll give you a lot of options. Bull nose would work the best, IMO if you can fix that step. Even if you tile it the same as the other part of the upper floor, you still need to figure out how to end it at the step or overhang it with a bull nose. I think you've got the right idea.
> 
> 
> Bud



Thanks Bud, thats what I was thinking as well. I will experiment around with it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I wanted to Add, the sound is Staying in the theater pretty good for not being sealed 100% yet. I was really concerned about this because out here in FL most of the homes are right next to each other (due to hurricane barriors I guess).


So basically my stage wall is against my neighbors yard and I like to watch Late night movies. I went Over to my neighbors yard to see if I can hear anything with some music playing pretty damn loud and all I heard was a slight faint Bass Thump from the Sub which is on the front Stage. I still need to Seal the theater Door for the room to be sealed 100%.


----------



## HeyNow^

Ruben,


How about a nice oak threashold? That's what I did in my home/carport/family room.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ruben:


If you leave a little step be sure that you keep a fairly good color contrast between the top of the step and the lower part so that any of your guests will be sure to spot it.


As for a marque I'm working on a concept of a rounded marque with "floating" 1 inch thick metallic coated letters with halo back lit with led lighting. Mine will be over the concession stand/bar in the back of my room but the same would work for your area over the door.


----------



## DLilley

Ruben,

I love, love, love, your theater. One question is that door your taking off is fire rated so is the new door also fire rated I dont know if it has to be because its not technically a garage anymore just thought I'd ask.

thanks Doug


----------



## mmmkam

How about this for the door...


You could do a couple more half round columns of a smaller diameter to match the ones in the theater. Then use those as the sides of the door casing and build a matching round marque to sit across the top of the doors and the columns. I suck at photoshop, but here is a pic.


I would just leave the step also.


----------



## TheSpoon

What kind of theater is complete without a red carpet walkway going to the doors? (even if it's only 3' long)


Nelson


----------



## SVonhof

This is a tough one Ruben. After seeing the pics of what you have, I would say that you don't want to add too much wood, unless there is wood somewhere else close to the opening. If not, then keep the marble floor style and maybe do like others said and do a different color marble on the step-down area with a bull-nose to finish it off.


As for the marquee, I really don't have a whole lot of ideas simply because I don't know how much you want it to stand out and be different from the rest of that portion of the house. Yes, it is a theater, but it looks like the only thing that it shares with the rest of the house is the overall red theme. Is there wood and dark colors near that door? Maybe some pics a little further back showing more of the opening?


----------



## jmorris644

For a marquee, how about a built in plasma sitting above the door that shows welcome messages, trailers, now showing, etc.


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For a marquee, how about a built in plasma sitting above the door that shows welcome messages, trailers, now showing, etc.
> 
> 
> Joe



Boy, we've all gotten pretty comfortable spending Sandman's money, huh...?


----------



## SmX

I been spending the weekend trying to set up Sage TV on the HTPC. I'm starting to think having an HT PC is Going to be a HT PITA. The Sage TV only work on low Resolution. I tried switching to nvidia decoders and that was the only thing that worked on low res (forget basic resolution). The Picture looks Horrible on my 7" TFT like the attenna needs to be adjusted. I don't know what else to try or Say. People on the Sage Forums are having the Same issues with no resolution. I may just go get a DVR for DirectTv instead.


I will try BeyondTv and se if I have any luck with that.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I been spending the weekend trying to set up Sage TV on the HTPC. I'm starting to think having an HT PC is Going to be a HT PITA. The Sage TV only work on low Resolution. I tried switching to nvidia decoders and that was the only thing that worked on low res (forget basic resolution). The Picture looks Horrible on my 7" TFT like the attenna needs to be adjusted. I don't know what else to try or Say. People on the Sage Forums are having the Same issues with no resolution. I may just go get a DVR for DirectTv instead.
> 
> 
> I will try BeyondTv and se if I have any luck with that.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I have been playing around with SnapStream. It only seems to work on high res. It may be what you are looking for. I was bummed cause I could not get it to work with terminal services. Gave up for a while but will get back to it. I began working on a plugin for cinemar and my Denon.


Joe


----------



## Mojo-TMH

First off I want to congratulate Ruben on a great looking theatre and very informative and interesting thread (yes I've been following since the beginning).


Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents on what to do for your lobby. The basic idea would be the same as mmmkam suggested and I just expanded upon it. First, the columns could be similar to the ones in the theatre but without the cloth portion used to hide the speakers. Also I think your veneer would look good stained black to contrast the reddish interior ones. Even though someone mentioned having too much wood, I don't think you're anywhere near that point and you do such a wonderful job of veneering it would be a shame not to showcase your talents even more.


The round marquis that the columns would be holding up would be done in the same veneer/black stain. Under the marquis you could have small can lights shining down on the columns and door (or just on the columns). And you could cut out the lettering for whatever you choose to name your theatre in the front of the marquis and light it from the back with some nice red lighting. I borrowed the name from a suggestion Svonhof made since I think it's the perfect name for this red and black themed theatre and a great inside joke for any movie buff (I made the jpg before checking the spelling which is why redrum is two words).


For the door I've always thought that it's hard to beat a padded leather door for an elegant look, which I would do in a dark red to match the red in the theatre.


I think TheSpoon's idea of red carpeting is great and would try to match it's colour to the door. I would also use a half round piece of the carpet from your theatre and use that to mirror the curve of the marquis above the door to help transition into the theatre and break up the red carpet at the door (hard to explain see picture).


I don't know if the closet on the left and on the right are structural or needed in any way but I would get rid of them altogether and open up the space. If you can't (or don't want to) get rid of them then maybe you could use one of the closets to your advantage and make a false ticket booth (see second picture).


Don't know what color I would paint the walls though? Black, too dark. Red, too much. A paint job to match the interior fabric walls perhaps?


Whatever you end up doing I'm sure it will be great since everything else has been so far


----------



## ebr

Sandman - if you want DVR functionality, I strongly suggest you get a real DVR. The interfaces and functionality are better and there is no "gatesware" to screw you.


----------



## johnbr

That is what where hear for.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - if you want DVR functionality, I strongly suggest you get a real DVR. The interfaces and functionality are better and there is no "gatesware" to screw you.



ROFL at my own stupidity. I actually was doing a google on "real DVR" looking for the software until it hit me.










Joe


----------



## ebr

LOL.


I almost said TiVo because I am way biased towards their interface, but I generalized to give the newer ones (that I haven't seen) the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been playing around with SnapStream. It only seems to work on high res. It may be what you are looking for. I was bummed cause I could not get it to work with terminal services. Gave up for a while but will get back to it. I began working on a plugin for cinemar and my Denon.
> 
> 
> Joe



It Seems like Live TV on the HTPC looks pretty Bad. I had the best quality and most channels using Windows Media Center 2005 to play Live TV. I'm using the Haupauge PVR-500MCE Video Card. I tried Beyond TV and I was only getting 9 channels and the Quality looked like crap too.


Then again, maybe its the cable signal to my house? After all, I only been watching DirectTv on a 62" DLP


----------



## SmX

I am thinking about picking up * THIS * Have any of you guys tried it yet? I wonder if I can upgrade the hard drive myself or hook up a Firewire/USB drive to it.


Ruben


----------



## r00ster

Sandman, of course if you want the ultimate control you could go the open source route and use MythTV http://www.mythtv.org/ .


Drew


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mojo-TMH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off I want to congratulate Ruben on a great looking theatre and very informative and interesting thread (yes I've been following since the beginning).
> 
> 
> Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents on what to do for your lobby. The basic idea would be the same as mmmkam suggested and I just expanded upon it. First, the columns could be similar to the ones in the theatre but without the cloth portion used to hide the speakers. Also I think your veneer would look good stained black to contrast the reddish interior ones. Even though someone mentioned having too much wood, I don't think you're anywhere near that point and you do such a wonderful job of veneering it would be a shame not to showcase your talents even more.
> 
> 
> The round marquis that the columns would be holding up would be done in the same veneer/black stain. Under the marquis you could have small can lights shining down on the columns and door (or just on the columns). And you could cut out the lettering for whatever you choose to name your theatre in the front of the marquis and light it from the back with some nice red lighting. I borrowed the name from a suggestion Svonhof made since I think it's the perfect name for this red and black themed theatre and a great inside joke for any movie buff (I made the jpg before checking the spelling which is why redrum is two words).
> 
> 
> For the door I've always thought that it's hard to beat a padded leather door for an elegant look, which I would do in a dark red to match the red in the theatre.
> 
> 
> I think TheSpoon's idea of red carpeting is great and would try to match it's colour to the door. I would also use a half round piece of the carpet from your theatre and use that to mirror the curve of the marquis above the door to help transition into the theatre and break up the red carpet at the door (hard to explain see picture).
> 
> 
> I don't know if the closet on the left and on the right are structural or needed in any way but I would get rid of them altogether and open up the space. If you can't (or don't want to) get rid of them then maybe you could use one of the closets to your advantage and make a false ticket booth (see second picture).
> 
> 
> Don't know what color I would paint the walls though? Black, too dark. Red, too much. A paint job to match the interior fabric walls perhaps?
> 
> 
> Whatever you end up doing I'm sure it will be great since everything else has been so far



Thanks Mojo, that looks like a cool idea. I was thinking something along those lines. Thanks for taking the time to draw that out. I know up top will ba a half round Marquee. I like what BigmouthinCD is talking about doing. I Love steel Letters and glowing lights


----------



## rider

Ruben,


After suffering w/dial-up internet for years, I finally got satellite access yesterday and was able to skim thru all 56 pages of this thread (w/dial-up, each page would take 10-15 min. to load...).


Let me first add to the chorus of accolades: the design, style, implementation, workmanship, and fit and finish of your theater is outstanding. I'm truly awed that you were able to do much/most of this yourself -- you are the patron saint of Do-It-Yourself-ers, and an inspiration to us wannabes










And also, THANK YOU for taking all the additional time and trouble to make the excellent, detailed, step-by-step photo log -- invaluable for understanding exactly how you did things, and giving ideas on how to modify/improve our own designs!


2 questions:


1) for the angled fabric seams under the soffits, you show in post #562 stapling the right side:










but how did you get the left angled seam attached and tight (post #568)?










2) did you do any first-hand testing of the acoustical transparency of the screen fabrics you're considering (such as firing up your speakers and doing an A/B test of how they sound with and without the screen fabric in front of them)? If you did, could you say how and what the difference(s) were?


Thanks.


----------



## HD Theater is it

Ruben,


I have been following your work for a few months now, and I must say that you have inspired me to turn my garage into a media room. I have talked about doing it for 2 years and finally did it, I on the other hand contracted most of it out and my family and I are very proud of the result. But I credit it to you on making this happen.


Rgds,


DeMarco


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys,


Is there any reason why I would get WB pretty clear but get CBS completely distorted in Windows Media Center 2005? I found 3 really clear channels then they go downhill from there. MTV is really Bad. Is it the Cable companies fault? I was thinking maybe I have a bad Splitter but a couple channels are very clear.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rider* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> After suffering w/dial-up internet for years, I finally got satellite access yesterday and was able to skim thru all 56 pages of this thread (w/dial-up, each page would take 10-15 min. to load...).
> 
> 
> Let me first add to the chorus of accolades: the design, style, implementation, workmanship, and fit and finish of your theater is outstanding. I'm truly awed that you were able to do much/most of this yourself -- you are the patron saint of Do-It-Yourself-ers, and an inspiration to us wannabes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And also, THANK YOU for taking all the additional time and trouble to make the excellent, detailed, step-by-step photo log -- invaluable for understanding exactly how you did things, and giving ideas on how to modify/improve our own designs!
> 
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> 
> 1) for the angled fabric seams under the soffits, you show in post #562 stapling the right side:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but how did you get the left angled seam attached and tight (post #568)?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) did you do any first-hand testing of the acoustical transparency of the screen fabrics you're considering (such as firing up your speakers and doing an A/B test of how they sound with and without the screen fabric in front of them)? If you did, could you say how and what the difference(s) were?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Thanks for all your kind words










The best way to do that is to build your frame first and make sure it's a tight fit (we used 2" x 2"s for the frame). Then staple the fabric to the 2 angled ends and the front but leave the side against the wall unstapled. Liquid nail the back side of the fabric covered frame and snug it up in place. With a small brad nailer, reach inside the unstapled fabric side and nail the frame in place, then finish stapling.


Or you can do it the easy way. Just build your frame (make sure it fits it snug), spray 3M glue on the ends and staple one side first to hide the staples. Get your frame up and use a putty knife to work the fabric inside the ends.


Ruben


----------



## circularduck

Great thread! It took me quite a while to get to the end of it, but it was a great read. I have a question about how you mounted your acoustic panels. You said that you used industrial velcro. How did you attach the velcro to the walls? Are you worried that if you had to replace a panel that it would separate from the walls?


----------



## ebr

Sandman, if you want a DirecTV DVR, you need this one.


I have used it since it was released. Works flawlessly.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It Seems like Live TV on the HTPC looks pretty Bad. I had the best quality and most channels using Windows Media Center 2005 to play Live TV. I'm using the Haupauge PVR-500MCE Video Card. I tried Beyond TV and I was only getting 9 channels and the Quality looked like crap too.
> 
> 
> Then again, maybe its the cable signal to my house? After all, I only been watching DirectTv on a 62" DLP



OK comparing DirectTV to analog cable? Not really a fair comparison










I bet it is the analog artifacts that you are disliking. Try connecting your directtv output to the video in on your card and see what happens. That would be a better way to test the quality of it.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> Is there any reason why I would get WB pretty clear but get CBS completely distorted in Windows Media Center 2005? I found 3 really clear channels then they go downhill from there. MTV is really Bad. Is it the Cable companies fault? I was thinking maybe I have a bad Splitter but a couple channels are very clear.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Again, I am assuming that you are using analog cable and don't have a digital box you are running it through. Yes, analog can degrade tremendously across the different frequencies. Also, if you have some really old splitters in the house, or some open cable ends where foreign signals can enter the signals can also be degraded.


Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, if you want a DirecTV DVR, you need this one.
> 
> 
> I have used it since it was released. Works flawlessly.



Kinda funny, they show the TIVO logo. I didn't think DirecTV was doing TIVO anymore, since they are doing their own software now.


----------



## ebr

I think the HD one is still the HR10-250 which is a TiVo box. At least, that's what I thought and that's what I have (I love the TiVo interface). They have changed out their standard ones I think but I don't think the HD ones will switch out until the mpeg4 stuff is up and going.


In any case the HR10-250 can still be bought at consumer outlets and it works well (and can be upgraded).


----------



## 1080eyes

Ruben,

I've read through all the postings, great job on a great project. I just started the HT hobby, and I'm learning tons of info. You stated earlier that your next project will be a 1000 gallon salt water tank. I was into the salt water hobby until I moved into a new house and had no place to put my tank. With your attention to detail your tank should turn out great. If I didn't had to send my boys to college and pay child support I would have the HT and fish tank.


----------



## miltimj

What gets me with DirecTV (and a reason I'm using cable) is the up front costs. It seems that an HD DVR is $400 initially. I have no initial cost with my Comcast HD DVR and it's $10/month ($5/month more than just HD).


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What gets me with DirecTV (and a reason I'm using cable) is the up front costs. It seems that an HD DVR is $400 initially. I have no initial cost with my Comcast HD DVR and it's $10/month ($5/month more than just HD).



Wow, thanks!! I just called Comcast and will switch out my HD receiver for the HD DVR/Receiver. And at only $4.99 more a month. Sweet!!!


Joe


----------



## miltimj

No problem, Joe. I was amazed and excited when I learned about this as well (from the Twin Cities thread in the HDTV Programming forum). I actually had purchased a MyHD MDP-130 card to use in a PC as an HD DVR, but once I found out about this deal, I just sold it (at a bit of a loss of course, but worth it anyway).


----------



## radm1f

Ruben, your home theater is looking awesome.










About the Cat5 wires in the duct work, a friend of mine did the exact same thing (of course it was not as ingenious as yours) and one of the hot water pipes apparently was close enough to the HVAC ducts that it melted a little bit of the insulation. It took us 2 weeks to figure out why his internet connection was intermittent. We then took out all the CAt5 lines and cut out the dry wall in his living room at the base boards and close to the ceiling below in his office. We drilled a hole in the subfloor between joists and fed the lines and repatched the drywalls. We fed two cat5 lines everywhere in case we wanted to extend Firewire, DVI, or HDMI signal using the GEFEN extenders. The work sucked but the result looks OK. What is your thought?


On the disc changer subject. Why not either have all the DVDs ripped on hard drives or use the multichanger entirely. If you have both wouldn't it be confusing, for example if you wanted to watch a DVD with the 777 first you'd have to remember its on the 777 and not the HTPC then change the input of your receiver, look at the menu of the 777 to find the title and then play it. Is there an advantage in having both systems with DVDs split between the two?


Thanks


Mehran


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Try connecting your directtv output to the video in on your card and see what happens. That would be a better way to test the quality of it.
> 
> Joe



You can Do that? I thought you need the little credit card that direct tv gives you in the box to get service.


Ruben


----------



## miltimj

Mehran,


John/jrfuda gives a good explanation of why he uses both, in this thread . I know it may not be Ruben's reason as well, but it could be.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can Do that? I thought you need the little credit card that direct tv gives you in the box to get service.
> 
> 
> Ruben



lol, yes, you do need the card. I meant to take the video "out" from your directtv box (with the card in it) and put it into the video 'in' on your PC card. (I am assuming that the PC card you have has a video "in".


Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, thanks!! I just called Comcast and will switch out my HD receiver for the HD DVR/Receiver. And at only $4.99 more a month. Sweet!!!
> 
> 
> Joe



FYI, a buddy of mine got one of the new Comcast HD-DVR boxes about two months ago and got a nice Dolby Digital signal. I went over there a few days later and he could not get a Dolby Digital signal. He fussed with it for quite a while and finally called them. They didn't know why it didn't work, and said he could come in and get another one.

He ended up seeing a friend who was working for Comcast and asked him to which he was told that is a known bug with that model receiver and that they didn't have a fix for it yet.


What he does is every week, he has to un-plug it and let it sit for a few minutes. Then, he plugs it back in and it works fine.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> lol, yes, you do need the card. I meant to take the video "out" from your directtv box (with the card in it) and put it into the video 'in' on your PC card. (I am assuming that the PC card you have has a video "in".
> 
> 
> Joe



So what would be the point of that when I can just go direct from my Sat box to my DVI switcher?


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, a buddy of mine got one of the new Comcast HD-DVR boxes about two months ago and got a nice Dolby Digital signal. I went over there a few days later and he could not get a Dolby Digital signal. He fussed with it for quite a while and finally called them. They didn't know why it didn't work, and said he could come in and get another one.
> 
> He ended up seeing a friend who was working for Comcast and asked him to which he was told that is a known bug with that model receiver and that they didn't have a fix for it yet.
> 
> 
> What he does is every week, he has to un-plug it and let it sit for a few minutes. Then, he plugs it back in and it works fine.



Just another example of why I don't have cable...


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what would be the point of that when I can just go direct from my Sat box to my DVI switcher?



Well, first off I didn't know you had a dvi switcher.







Second I thought you were just testing the htPC to make sure you could get the signal quality you were looking for.


Maybe I misunderstood what it was you were trying to do? I was thinking that you were frustrated with the analog cable signal when comparing it to the DirectTV signal and that you were wondering if the whole htPC was a good idea or not because of it.


So I was coming from the viewpoint of testing the htPC to ensure you could get a good quality signal through it and then tracing the bad signal to its source.


Am I even in the same boat?


Joe


----------



## radm1f

Thanks for the clarification Tim.


By the way I have two Comcast digital HD cable box/DVRs. Both are dual tuners (you can record 2 digital channels while watching a third). One is older (DVI output), and the other 2 weeks old (HDMI output). I can transfer HD content from premium channels (ex. HBOHD, CINEMAXHD, etc..) via Firewire to my mac (as VIDEO_TS, or VIDEO_VOB files) and store/stream them later (1080i) via firewire to SXRD HDTV. The SPDIF/optical output is decoded by a DENON receiver and I haven't noticed any problems (that I can hear).


My two cents: I would favor the cable box.


Mehran


----------



## Test_Engineer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I been spending the weekend trying to set up Sage TV on the HTPC. I'm starting to think having an HT PC is Going to be a HT PITA. The Sage TV only work on low Resolution. I tried switching to nvidia decoders and that was the only thing that worked on low res (forget basic resolution). The Picture looks Horrible on my 7" TFT like the attenna needs to be adjusted. I don't know what else to try or Say. People on the Sage Forums are having the Same issues with no resolution. I may just go get a DVR for DirectTv instead.
> 
> 
> I will try BeyondTv and se if I have any luck with that.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Did you try the NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder. Your card supports it, but you need to use a decoder that exploits it, otherwise it doesn't do anything, witch might be the case here. I don't know why they just don't include this with the software bundle, but I guess it makes them more $$$ Here is a link to the trial:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_dec...196-trial.html 


My buddy is using the PureVideo decoder and he said the TV output from his HTPC is BETTER than if he connects the COAX directly to his TV. He said it removes a lot of the analog artifacts that spill over from other frequencies. Worth a shot!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Test_Engineer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you try the NVIDIA PureVideo Decoder. Your card supports it, but you need to use a decoder that exploits it, otherwise it doesn't do anything, witch might be the case here. I don't know why they just don't include this with the software bundle, but I guess it makes them more $$$ Here is a link to the trial:
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_dec...196-trial.html
> 
> 
> My buddy is using the PureVideo decoder and he said the TV output from his HTPC is BETTER than if he connects the COAX directly to his TV. He said it removes a lot of the analog artifacts that spill over from other frequencies. Worth a shot!



Yeah I tried Pure Video, I had the Trial version for a few Days now. One thing I noticed is the Video playback of VOB Files looks much better in TheaterTek than in WMC 2005.

The VOB/DVD video looks a bit wavey in WMC. Much respect goes out to TheaterTek and ffdshow for creating awesome programs with awesome video quality!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah I tried Pure Video, I had the Trial version for a few Days now. One thing I noticed is the Video playback of VOB Files looks much better in TheaterTek than in WMC 2005.
> 
> The VOB/DVD video looks a bit wavey in WMC. Much respect goes out to TheaterTek and ffdshow for creating awesome programs with awesome video quality!



And with the htPC that you built I don't think you need to worry about processor overhead. Which is the main advantage with Pure Video. I am using a Athlon 64 4200+ with SATA drives and have never noticed any degredation due to the speed of the computer.


Joe


----------



## dreamhost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *radm1f* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, your home theater is looking awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the disc changer subject. Why not either have all the DVDs ripped on hard drives or use the multichanger entirely. If you have both wouldn't it be confusing, for example if you wanted to watch a DVD with the 777 first you'd have to remember its on the 777 and not the HTPC then change the input of your receiver, look at the menu of the 777 to find the title and then play it. Is there an advantage in having both systems with DVDs split between the two?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Mehran



Just to chime in here. I actually do both the changers and hd storage for my dvd's and it's worked perfectly for years now. I started with the sony changer and loved using it, but really hated it's menu system. Seriously, who wants to fire up a system for friends and have them see that menu as their first impression LOL.


Then I stumbled across a program by cinemaronline called dvdlobby and my life changed for the better. Basically it's a 100% modifiable frontend gui so you can design to your hearts content or just use their own, which are very nice. It can also control multiple changers.


Their setup is simple.

Open the program and type in your dvd title or bar code#.

An internet search is then done which grabs all info and coverart.

Tell the program what changer it's in and the disk#

If it's hd based, simply input the path to your dvd folder where you saved it.

You can also input 'trailer' urls on a per dvd basis. Trialers can either be on your htpc, in a changer, or in another dvd player.


The problem you describe of remembering where the movie is becomes mute. You don't have to know anything. Simply click around their thumbnail menu, title menu, search menu, etc... and everything fires up. (think generic kaleidescape)


This software combination not only manages your dvd's, it also can control your equipment via rf, ir, serial, etc...


I've programed a number of macros so that it only takes 1 button to fire everything up, and another to choose what I want to watch. Very kewl!


As to playback from the pc, I use theatertek as it seems to look the best, and without a doubt makes my denon 3910 look like a toy. We can thank pc post-processing for that, though it does take a very fast machine. Sandmans' is more than fast enough. Properly setup, his pc should rival just about any dvd player on the market


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dreamhost* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just to chime in here. I actually do both the changers and hd storage for my dvd's and it's worked perfectly for years now. I started with the sony changer and loved using it, but really hated it's menu system. Seriously, who wants to fire up a system for friends and have them see that menu as their first impression LOL.
> 
> 
> Then I stumbled across a program by cinemaronline called dvdlobby and my life changed for the better. Basically it's a 100% modifiable frontend gui so you can design to your hearts content or just use their own, which are very nice. It can also control multiple changers.
> 
> 
> Their setup is simple.
> 
> Open the program and type in your dvd title or bar code#.
> 
> An internet search is then done which grabs all info and coverart.
> 
> Tell the program what changer it's in and the disk#
> 
> If it's hd based, simply input the path to your dvd folder where you saved it.
> 
> You can also input 'trailer' urls on a per dvd basis. Trialers can either be on your htpc, in a changer, or in another dvd player.
> 
> 
> The problem you describe of remembering where the movie is becomes mute. You don't have to know anything. Simply click around their thumbnail menu, title menu, search menu, etc... and everything fires up. (think generic kaleidescape)
> 
> 
> This software combination not only manages your dvd's, it also can control your equipment via rf, ir, serial, etc...
> 
> 
> I've programed a number of macros so that it only takes 1 button to fire everything up, and another to choose what I want to watch. Very kewl!
> 
> 
> As to playback from the pc, I use theatertek as it seems to look the best, and without a doubt makes my denon 3910 look like a toy. We can thank pc post-processing for that, though it does take a very fast machine. Sandmans' is more than fast enough. Properly setup, his pc should rival just about any dvd player on the market


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben has DVDLobby. I am a Cinemar product customer too. I don't think that Ruben has had much time to spend with MainLobby yet though. If he has he has not shared much of his experience with it.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yeah I have the whole set up from Cinemar. I got DVD Lobby Pro, Main Lobby, Music Lobby and TV Lobby. Just haven't Started setting them up yet. I been busy trying to EQ my room and take readings.


Ruben


----------



## radm1f

Thank you for your response Dreamhost.


Ruben would you mind sharing what equipment and method you are using to tune your room?


Thank you


Mehran


----------



## MPDXrules

Hey SandmanX


Can you give a brief review of your HTPC case. I am interested in purchasing one and want to know about the display, construction, noise level, supplied fans and power block.

thax


----------



## suffolk112000




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DLilley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I love, love, love, your theater.



Never mind the theater... I love the house!!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0






Craig


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MPDXrules* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey SandmanX
> 
> 
> Can you give a brief review of your HTPC case. I am interested in purchasing one and want to know about the display, construction, noise level, supplied fans and power block.
> 
> thax


 http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=x15


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MPDXrules* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey SandmanX
> 
> 
> Can you give a brief review of your HTPC case. I am interested in purchasing one and want to know about the display, construction, noise level, supplied fans and power block.
> 
> thax



Very Nice Case. It also has a built in IR that works with Windows Media Center 2005 which I wasn't aware of. I went out and bought the WMC 2005 Remote and Receiver put the batteries in the remote and forgot to hook up the MCE IR receiver and was using the remote without the it. I didn't realize till later that the receiver was still in the box










The case is very nicely built. The Fan on the bottom of the Case under the hard drives was a bit loud for me at 12volts so I cut it down to 6 volts and that made the case pretty much dead quiet (quieter than my Sony Vaio which is extremely quiet).


The Zalman fan is the only thing I can hear lately, I have it running on full power because I recently reformatted the drive and forgot to install the speed controll drivers. I will get to that this weekend.


The only goofy thing about the case is the 7" TFT Monitor has to be hooked up outside the back of the case from one card to another. If they would of done that internally it would of been better. The built in 7" touch screen has come in handy several times already.


Not to mention the case is Soo cool looking that it got me laid 4 times this week already










Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention the case is Soo cool looking that it got me laid 4 times this week already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



$hit, I've got to get in the game. With my 13 inch LCD monitor in my equipment stack I should be getting laid daily.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not to mention the case is Soo cool looking that it got me laid 4 times this week already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben




Wait, you are married right? Does your wife know about this?!


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> $hit, I've got to get in the game. With my 13 inch LCD monitor in my equipment stack I should be getting laid daily.




Bigmouth - no complaining from you. We've seen pictures...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait, you are married right? Does your wife know about this?!




SSSShhhhhhhhh!!!


----------



## easy9

this whole s*** is f****** unbelievable, this is f****** great stuff,,,

i am all screwed up right now,,,, took an ambien last light to fall asleep, after which i checked this web site for new stuff like i always do before bed, next thing u know i found this thread and that's all she wrote ,, i was fighting the ambien all night,,,









went to bed 3 hours later but didn't finish the thread, just to wake up early to read it some more, my wife is pissed because i always complain that i don't get enough sleep,,,and now i don't want to sleep, glue to this thread,,,lol

love this stuff

thanks sandmanx and everyone else for your kind and helpful imputs to this thread,,.

sam


----------



## larryep

the thread should be renamed Sandmans War and Peace


----------



## chiphayes

Ruben...


Someone posted earlier about MythTV as a possible alternative for DVR.


I was in a book store today and happened on a copy of Linux Toys II.


(I'd post a link, but I've been lurking too much with not enough posts, and I'm still restricted... Amazon has it, though.)


It has a whole chapter on a step-by-step setup of MythTV, in case you're interested in giving it a try.


Chip


----------



## ntjbjhq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiphayes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben...
> 
> 
> Someone posted earlier about MythTV as a possible alternative for DVR.
> 
> 
> I was in a book store today and happened on a copy of Linux Toys II.
> 
> 
> (I'd post a link, but I've been lurking too much with not enough posts, and I'm still restricted... Amazon has it, though.)
> 
> 
> It has a whole chapter on a step-by-step setup of MythTV, in case you're interested in giving it a try.
> 
> 
> Chip



Also, here is a video podcast type thing that explains the installation and stuff of mythtv. Its free so maybe you can have a look at this and see if it interests anyone. I'm sure there is a ton of info online since MythTV is open source and all. But its fun to watch people build a mythtv box on camera.


Guess a link would help







Systm MythTV 


Enjoy!


Robert


----------



## 2.35:1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to Add, the sound is Staying in the theater pretty good for not being sealed 100% yet. I was really concerned about this because out here in FL most of the homes are right next to each other (due to hurricane barriors I guess).
> 
> 
> So basically my stage wall is against my neighbors yard and I like to watch Late night movies. I went Over to my neighbors yard to see if I can hear anything with some music playing pretty damn loud and all I heard was a slight faint Bass Thump from the Sub which is on the front Stage. I still need to Seal the theater Door for the room to be sealed 100%.




Any fish in that lake?


----------



## ebr

The better question is "where's the boat?".


I know he has one. He lives in on the water in Florida.


I'm sure the problem is the aspect ratio of that picture. You see, if we could see the whole thing widescreen (as the director intended







) we would see the nice boat with the bikini-clad babe sunning on the foredeck...


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure the problem is the aspect ratio of that picture. You see, if we could see the whole thing widescreen (as the director intended
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) we would see the nice boat with the bikini-clad babe sunning on the foredeck...



I am guessing it is probably Jessica, like in his other photos. That is why he is intentionally only giving us only the 4x3 image so we don't get too far off topic like we did last time.










Joe


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The built in 7" touch screen has come in handy several times already.
> 
> 
> Not to mention the case is Soo cool looking that it got me laid 4 times this week already
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben




OK I've got this comment figured out. Sandman mounted the PC about waist level. He uses the old wanna come over and check out my home theater? line.


After she oos and ahs the woodwork Sandman pops in a Movie and says check this out. So the lady is bent over looking at the waist high image and ............the rest is history.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK I've got this comment figured out. Sandman mounted the PC about waist level. He uses the old wanna come over and check out my home theater? line.
> 
> 
> After she oos and ahs the woodwork Sandman pops in a Movie and says check this out. So the lady is bent over looking at the waist high image and ............the rest is history.



LOL, thats almost as good as the Popcorn bag on the lap with the hole on the bottom of it


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL, thats almost as good as the Popcorn bag on the lap with the hole on the bottom of it



Ooh. Great movie reference. One of my all time favorite movies too...


----------



## SmX

If anyone here is using the fabricmate system for their walls, I have 30 feet of track that I ordered and never used. If you need it, PM me.


I have 20 feet (4 five foot tracks) of the black track (the FS-150) in the picture below and 10 Feet (2 five foot tracks) of the white track below (the FS-250).


I didn't go this route because I wanted my whole panels to be removable.


Here is a Link to the specs of the tracks
http://www.fabricmate.com/inchedgepros.htm 


Thanks, Ruben


----------



## dhnjp1

Ruben, before you get rid of the Fabricmate track can you see how well it holds the Sheerweave and Dazian CCC materials? I was thinking of attaching some of the 1/2-inch track to the back of my screen frame so I could easily swap different screen materials.


--Dan


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dhnjp1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, before you get rid of the Fabricmate track can you see how well it holds the Sheerweave and Dazian CCC materials? I was thinking of attaching some of the 1/2-inch track to the back of my screen frame so I could easily swap different screen materials.
> 
> 
> --Dan



It works well with everything I tried.


Ruben


----------



## BayAreaFan

I did some more research on the Sheerweave 2000 vs 4000.

Sandman, the moire is pattern is very specific to the source and the orientation and the distance, so do not dismiss a material because it showed moire in one environment. Also the color shift will vary between different shades you chose. I chose the P05 Platinum/White combo since my room did not have enough light control.


I found a site with comparison of the two materials:
Sheerweave 4000 
Sheerweave 2000 


I have extracted some technical info

Sheerweave 2K Sheerweave 4K

Mesh (Ends/in.) | 45*Warp, 45*Fill | 36*Warp, 30*Fill

Mesh Weight | 14.26 (oz./sq.yd.) | 19.2 (oz./sq.yd.)

Yarn Diameter (in.) | 0.013*Warp, 0.013*Fill | 0.020*Warp, 0.020*Fill

Fabric Thickness (in.) | 0.019 | 0.036

Openness Factor | Approximately 5% | Approximately 5%

UV Blockage | Approximately 95% | Approximately 95%

Breaking Strength (lbs./in.) | 224*Warp, 200*Fill | 315*Warp, 260*Fill

Stiffness (Mg.) | 137*Warp, 171*Fill | 600*Warp, 400*Fill

(


The 2000 has a higher density of holes and it is symmetric in both directions.

It uses a thinner thread and is significantly lighter. The lightness becomes more important if you are going to mount it on a roller (as I did). The 4000 is stiffer and stronger so it is better for a fixed screen.


From an acoustic point of view, shouldn't 2000 with more number of smaller holes be better?


Which color are you using in your tests?


----------



## BasementBob

BayAreaFan:

Could you repost that into: Sandmans Open Weave Vinyl Screen Project begins! thread? It looks to me like the sort of useful information that belongs there.


The 2000 P02 - White "Image of Fabric" at your link looks a lot like the new weave Sandman is trying.



Since this stuff is fire rated, and comes quite wide, I wonder if the "2000 V22 - Charcoal / Gray" could be used instead of GoM on walls.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BayAreaFan:
> 
> Since this stuff is fire rated, and comes quite wide, I wonder if the "2000 V22 - Charcoal / Gray" could be used instead of GoM on walls.



You wouldn't want to use it as GoM. It's too thick to fold and work with plus its more than twice the price of GoM per yard. Plus its reflective because it's vinyl.


Ruben


----------



## tob!

Sandman we all waiting for new pictures of your fabulous homecinema.. c'mon


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tob!* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman we all waiting for new pictures of your fabulous homecinema.. c'mon



New pictures coming soon!


----------



## GeorgeIII

Ruben


What is the width of the door to your theater?

Was it wide enough for you to move your seats through?


Great looking theater!

George


----------



## advertguy2

I would assume that it was since the seats are in there...


----------



## jkdon

Hi

Sandman


Can you tell me where to buy the Screen material that what you used for your screen. Can you send me a link if you have tutorial for 'how to build a screen'




Ty

JKDON


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> Sandman
> 
> 
> Can you tell me where to buy the Screen material that what you used for your screen. Can you send me a link if you have tutorial for 'how to build a screen'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ty
> 
> JKDON




Just follow * THIS THREAD *


----------



## TheDesolateOne

Phew! Finally caught up reading this thread. Great work by the way. Certainly looking forward to seeing the end product, as its given me heaps of ideas for both my theatres (1 for wife and I, and another for the kids, allowing them to entertain friends). Thanks again for sharing everything on the forum...


Mark


----------



## sony1272owner

Where are the new pictures??? I'm going threw WITHDRAW !!!!


----------



## csgarrella

How did you make the box up that is in the riser behind first set of chairs that features 6 hook-ups for video and telephone? Did you make all cables and connections yourself?


----------



## KWhite

Everyone chant now... pictures...pictures...pictures.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

This thread has been dead for a week!


I have a question that I still haven't seen or found an answer to. Why did you put sand in the stage? Also, why didn't you put sand in the riser?


Thank you.


----------



## TheDesolateOne

I'm no expert, but I would presume sand was used to deaden the stage area...


Mark


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spaceman Spiff* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread has been dead for a week!
> 
> 
> I have a question that I still haven't seen or found an answer to. Why did you put sand in the stage? Also, why didn't you put sand in the riser?
> 
> 
> Thank you.



The sand was used in the stage to deaden it. Whenever you have your speakers and sub on your stage, you use sand in the stage to stop the stage from resonating like an acoustic guitar. The Sub & Floor standing speakers sit on the Stage and when I stand right in front of the sub I don't feel my feet vibrating. Also another little note, Sand deadens vibration more than concrete. I had my sub on the concrete floor before and the floor used to vibrate a bit or should I say the sound was flanking through the concrete as they call it.


The Platform can be insulated with fiberglass or cotton because there are no speakers on it.


As far as more pictures and updates, I been busy with some other projects and will try to get some more done on the theater tomorrow. I just been EQing the room and messing around with measurements and software when possible.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...Sand deadens vibration more than concrete. I had my sub on the concrete floor before and the floor used to vibrate a bit or should I say the sound was flanking through the concrete as they call it.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Reminds me of the Consumer Electronic Show a few years back. My wife and I were waiting outside of the Runco/Acoustic Innovations booth for a demo in their room and we could hear that there was action going on in the room. At one point, the floor of the Las Vegas Convention Center started shaking from the bass. Maybe it was flanking through it, but I felt the concrete moving!


When we had our turn in the room, they said there were 11 subwoofers in the room (I can still swear I heard one that was either blown or bottoming out). It was a very cool demo!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Spaceman Spiff* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This thread has been dead for a week!
> 
> .



This has been perfect or me! I was out of the country for the last week with no internet access! Thanks everyone for not posting too much!


----------



## SmX

Not an update, just a question.


Allot of Movie & Audio Mastering Studios use Genelec Powered Speakers as a Standard reference speaker. I use them as well in my business. The Genelec 1031a is pretty much the standard reference speaker in the industry for mixing surround.


Has anyone here ever heard of anyone using 7 of these for a 7.1 surround System? They are self powered and have 2 built in individual amps for Bass and Treble.


They run about $4k a pair New but can be gotten for less used.


A Little note On them:


The Genelec 1031A is a two-way active monitor system, consisting of a vented enclosure with a multiple amplifier unit set into the back. The amplifier unit contains a low signal level active crossover, two power amplifiers and overload protection for each driver. This design provides high output, low coloration and broad bandwidth. The system's excellent dispersion and precise imaging together with its compact size make it ideal for near field monitoring, broadcast and TV control rooms, mobile vans, home studios and travelling engineers.


Genelec's unique Directivity Control Waveguide (DCW ) Technology is used to provide excellent stereo imaging and frequency balance, even in difficult acoustic environments. This is enhanced by the versatile crossover controls, which allow the precise matching of the speaker system to its surroundings. It is capable of producing peak acoustic levels of over 120 dB SPL at 1m.


Genelec 1031A Technical Specifications

SPL

Short term RMS @ 1m 110 dB SPL

Peak per pair with music material 120 dB SPL @ 1m

Drivers

Bass 8"

Treble 1" metal dome + DCW

Crossover frequencies 2.2 kHz

Free field frequency response ± 2.5dB 48 - 22 000 Hz

Amplifier power / ch

Bass 120 W

Treble 120 W

Speaker dimensions (H x W x D)

mm 393 x 250 x 290 mm

inches 15 1/2 x 9 7/8 x 11 7/16"

Speaker weight 12.7 kg (28 lb)


----------



## longtimelurker

Wouldn't they be a nightmare to truly match, so many variables (14 amps, 7 power points (ie....1st speaker on circuit would be subject to less resistance than 7th speaker on circuit, and if they are on different circuits thats a whole new issue)?





SandmanX said:


> Not an update, just a question.
> 
> 
> Allot of Movie & Audio Mastering Studios use Genelec Powered Speakers as a Standard reference speaker. I use them as well in my business. The Genelec 1031a is pretty much the standard reference speaker in the industry for mixing surround.
> 
> 
> Has anyone here ever heard of anyone using 7 of these for a 7.1 surround System? They are self powered and have 2 built in individual amps for Bass and Treble.


----------



## BFauska

I would be concerned about the use of near-field monitors for speakers in a large environment like a home theater. I have used studio monitors in theater-like applications before and didn't notice any problems, but it seams like speakers designed for use close to the listener would maybe not have the dispersion needed for enveloping home theater surround sound.


Just my thoughts.


Brian


----------



## ebr

I agree with Brian. Most professional mixing is done with near field monitors like these (I am an ex amateur recording/mixing engineer). They are extremely accurate but are designed for being close to the listener. I found, in my personal experience and through professionals I came into contact with that these monitors are very good for mixing rooms but may not translate well into a larger environment.


----------



## bpape

I think he actualy listened to them in the room and preferred them to the ML's.


I understand the concern about nearfields in most cases. However, the Genelec's are supposed to have excellent dispersion characteristics which may overcome that limitation. Hey, as long as he has a pair and can try them, why not.


----------



## ebr

Well, in the end, in _your_ room, its all about what _you_ like.


----------



## SanjA

This Great people should read this!


----------



## BFauska

Bpape is absolutely right, it's Ruben's room and if he has heard those speakers in there and liked them, then screw conventional techniques. If Ruben were willing to fly me out I could definitely change my opinion on the use of mixing speakers in a HT, heck from the various hints here and there I'd even help him do some work or at least watch and give pointers there too.







I could be way off base, but knowing he does video professionally and seeing one of his helpers I think that as fun as it is for him (or us) to spend his money, it's probably sometimes just as fun to make it.


Keep up the good work on your beautiful theater and house.


Later,

Brian


----------



## pocoloco

Ruben,


Happy reading

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=567901 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=618517 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=527612 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=623206 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=560618 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=624743 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=607411


----------



## will_s

Thats one long read.

Started monday from post 1, finished today.


----------



## graffixjones

Well, I have only three letters to type... W. O. W. !


That's gonna be one nice place to watch a movie... heck, if you'd let me, I'd move in and just camp out there. LOL.










It's only fitting, being that your theatre is probably worth more than my house.










Very nice job. Gives me something to aspire to.


----------



## taker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not an update, just a question.
> 
> 
> Allot of Movie & Audio Mastering Studios use Genelec Powered Speakers as a Standard reference speaker. I use them as well in my business. The Genelec 1031a is pretty much the standard reference speaker in the industry for mixing surround.
> 
> 
> Has anyone here ever heard of anyone using 7 of these for a 7.1 surround System? They are self powered and have 2 built in individual amps for Bass and Treble.
> 
> 
> They run about $4k a pair New but can be gotten for less used.
> 
> 
> A Little note On them:
> 
> 
> The Genelec 1031A is a two-way active monitor system, consisting of a vented enclosure with a multiple amplifier unit set into the back. The amplifier unit contains a low signal level active crossover, two power amplifiers and overload protection for each driver. This design provides high output, low coloration and broad bandwidth. The system's excellent dispersion and precise imaging together with its compact size make it ideal for near field monitoring, broadcast and TV control rooms, mobile vans, home studios and travelling engineers.
> 
> 
> Genelec's unique Directivity Control Waveguide (DCW ) Technology is used to provide excellent stereo imaging and frequency balance, even in difficult acoustic environments. This is enhanced by the versatile crossover controls, which allow the precise matching of the speaker system to its surroundings. It is capable of producing peak acoustic levels of over 120 dB SPL at 1m.
> 
> 
> Genelec 1031A Technical Specifications
> 
> SPL
> 
> Short term RMS @ 1m 110 dB SPL
> 
> Peak per pair with music material 120 dB SPL @ 1m
> 
> Drivers
> 
> Bass 8"
> 
> Treble 1" metal dome + DCW
> 
> Crossover frequencies 2.2 kHz
> 
> Free field frequency response ± 2.5dB 48 - 22 000 Hz
> 
> Amplifier power / ch
> 
> Bass 120 W
> 
> Treble 120 W
> 
> Speaker dimensions (H x W x D)
> 
> mm 393 x 250 x 290 mm
> 
> inches 15 1/2 x 9 7/8 x 11 7/16"
> 
> Speaker weight 12.7 kg (28 lb)





I heard the 1037 in a 7.1 theater showroom here in seattle they are nice


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with Brian. Most professional mixing is done with near field monitors like these (I am an ex amateur recording/mixing engineer). They are extremely accurate but are designed for being close to the listener. I found, in my personal experience and through professionals I came into contact with that these monitors are very good for mixing rooms but may not translate well into a larger environment.



Ebr,


Times have changed. Before we know it conventional Passive speakers may be a thing of the past in modern times. With a passive speaker you have to worry about x-over db drops, phase issues, matching amp to speaker, wiring, heat in the rack from amps.


An active speaker has built in active x-overs, dual built in matching amps for bass and treble, no issues with out of phase speakers, heat is not an issue, long Speaker cable runs are not an issue with them since you can run a balanced wire to them. Buying an active speaker means you can basically get the sound the manufacturer intended right out the box and not have to worry if you Amps, x-overs and speaker wire runs are going to alter The sound.


There is not much talk about Active monitors here because people aren't really up on them. I been using active monitors since the 90's. I see allot of these guys in those threads pocoloco posted trading in their high end gear and picking up the Mackie HR824s to do their theaters with. Mackie owners, don't take this the wrong way but the Mackie HR824 is the poor mans Genelec 1031a. I myself owned Mackie 824's a while back before I plunged to get Genelecs. The Genelecs are not as bass heavy as the Mackies and the Genelecs have better detail/imaging. I also owned krk'sand tannoy's in the past as well.


pocoloco posted some good links above and I think you should take a look at them. People are starting to make the switch.


Ruben


----------



## audsyn

FWIW I agree with you. I've got 2 HR824s in the "studio," and I'd do an HT with 5 or 7 of them in a heartbeat, except that I don't have the money for that, much less Genelecs.


I also don't buy "nearfields only sound good when you are close to them." That doesn't make any sense. At any rate, in a heavily treated HT you're going to be in the nearfield at a much greater distance than a normal room.


----------



## ebr

I'll admit I'm an old dog when it comes to this stuff. I haven't done any studio work since the late 90's. So I'm sure things have changed.


----------



## Erik_HTB

Some of the best sounding theaters I've done were Meridian DSPs. I like the processing, and the way the speakers are linked together digitally just works.


I have had my ass kicked on multiple occasions by Genelec theaters as well. If money is no object, I never hesitate to recommend active monitors.


The bigger Genelec theater I got to hear was borderline disturbing. The air was downright thick with SPLs. My hair stood up on my arms and I got butterflies in my stomach that bordered on nausea, but at the same time I loved every minute of it. I remember swearing to myself at that point that if I ever had the money to do whatever I wanted, that I would have a big time Genelec theater. In my mind Genelec is king. Hands down.


----------



## KWhite

Alright, enough of this, where are the #(&*@#$#$ pictures. Ruben, stop watching movies and snap a few for petes sake...we are like a bunch of junkies out here and we need our fix.


----------



## sikoniko

but then you look at studios like this that went the other direction and realize that our options are growing, but the change isn't necessarily in any direction...












p.s. I've got 824's in my home studio, and while it would be interesting to compare them to my n802's in my HT, as i believe they are very detailed (never heard the genelecs to my knowledge), i don't think they would hold up to the depth and soundstage.


----------



## Chris1971

Sandman,


Love the thread and an inspiration for when I build my HT. I found it interesting there is suddenly so much talk about Genelec and no reference to Meridian. When you made your comment that, "Mackie owners, don't take this the wrong way but the Mackie HR824 is the poor mans Genelec 1031a..." I couldn't help but agree and think hang on, isn't Genelec the poor mans version of Meridian? Again, no offence to Genelec owners out there. I auditioned both Genelec and Meridian and there was no question for me, Meridian it is. I have DSP5200's with a G68D processor and I find them magic for moves and music.


If you are going to consider active speakers, I'd think you want to consider those that others are modelled on. I know, a big statement... but like everything else, HT is subjective and this is just my opinion.


[Edit: I saw Erik's post after I wrote mine. I'll put DSP8000's up against anything Genelec has to offer. Again, just my opinion.







]


Enjoy.


Cheers,


Chris


----------



## Erik_HTB

I would put Genelec over Meridian in terms of sheer output (the big stuff).

Depends what you are trying to achieve. Personally, I like getting my head caved in. No worries though, I probably have the same amount of love for Meridian as you. They really are something.


----------



## khellandros66

M&K has a set of powered speakers that are offered in their HT line, not to mention a few in their Pro line as well. M&K have some really great speakers for the money.


~Bob


----------



## TheDesolateOne

Amen to that, Bob










Mark


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I have a few questions about your starred ceiling if you don't mind. I have re-read that section of the thread and can't find the answers.


1. Did you end up using the 1/4" Masonite board? The pictures look thicker than 1/4"


2. It looks like your joists are 24" on center. If so, is it sagging at all?


3. Somewhere you stated you used brads, did the velcro not hold?


4. Does the lightbox generate much heat?


5. When you researched star patterns did you find other sources other than the material supplier?


6. Regarding the shooting star, I saw how you put it in but how do you get the light pattern to go in a single direction? (oops, found the info)


7. Now that it is up on the ceiling would you do anything different? How do the seams look?, etc.


8. Still have the extra fiber?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX

1) Yes I used 1/4" Masonite


2) No sagging Issues.


3) I used Brads because I didn't want to chance the Velcro. I think the Velcro would of been fine, but I have no reason to pull these panels down in the future.


4) The Light box does get Hot when on full power. I rigged mine so I can dim it, so when a movie is playing the stars are not distracting.


5) I love the way it came out. It fascinates everyone who walks in the theater as well. I am still going to do some real thin black GoM strips to hide the seams. The seams are slightly noticable during bright scenes in a movie.


Ruben



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I have a few questions about your starred ceiling if you don't mind. I have re-read that section of the thread and can't find the answers.
> 
> 
> 1. Did you end up using the 1/4" Masonite board? The pictures look thicker than 1/4"
> 
> 
> 2. It looks like your joists are 24" on center. If so, is it sagging at all?
> 
> 
> 3. Somewhere you stated you used brads, did the velcro not hold?
> 
> 
> 4. Does the lightbox generate much heat?
> 
> 
> 5. When you researched star patterns did you find other sources other than the material supplier?
> 
> 
> 6. Regarding the shooting star, I saw how you put it in but how do you get the light pattern to go in a single direction? (oops, found the info)
> 
> 
> 7. Now that it is up on the ceiling would you do anything different? How do the seams look?, etc.
> 
> 
> 8. Still have the extra fiber?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1) Yes I used 1/4" Masonite
> 
> 
> 2) No sagging Issues.
> 
> 
> 3) I used Brads because I didn't want to chance the Velcro. I think the Velcro would of been fine, but I have no reason to pull these panels down in the future.
> 
> 
> 4) The Light box does get Hot when on full power. I rigged mine so I can dim it, so when a movie is playing the stars are not distracting.
> 
> 
> 5) I love the way it came out. It fascinates everyone who walks in the theater as well. I am still going to do some real thin black GoM strips to hide the seams. The seams are slightly noticable during bright scenes in a movie.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Are both direction of seams noticeable?


Joe


----------



## SmX

Well yesterday was my official opening of my theater. I had 8 friends over and the opening movie was King Kong followed by Lord of War and then Saw 2 at the request of the friends that were over. After those we watched some HDnet so they could appreciate the HD quality even further.


Everyone was blown away by the picture quality and sound along with the design of the theater. I used my new weave audio transparent screen as the screen of choice. I had the Dazian CCC up previously and my friends commented on how dark it was when I compared it to the new weave.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well yesterday was my official opening of my theater. I had 8 friends over and the opening movie was King Kong followed by Lord of War and then Saw 2 at the request of the friends that were over. After those we watched some HDnet so they could appreciate the HD quality even further.
> 
> 
> Everyone was blown away by the picture quality and sound along with the design of the theater. I used my new weave audio transparent screen as the screen of choice. I had the Dazian CCC up previously and my friends commented on how dark it was when I compared it to the new weave.



Congrats Ruben! The nice thing about this hobby as opposed to some others out there, is 90% of the population loves a good movie. And that means there are a lot of people who you can share all of your hard work with.


The journey of course is fun, but sitting back with friends and watching them getting blown away is the real cheese at the end of the maze.


Best of luck on the next project!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well yesterday was my official opening of my theater. I had 8 friends over and the opening movie was King Kong followed by Lord of War and then Saw 2 at the request of the friends that were over. After those we watched some HDnet so they could appreciate the HD quality even further.
> 
> 
> Everyone was blown away by the picture quality and sound along with the design of the theater. I used my new weave audio transparent screen as the screen of choice. I had the Dazian CCC up previously and my friends commented on how dark it was when I compared it to the new weave.



So it must be AQUARIUM time, huh?


Joe


----------



## sony1272owner

Where are the freaking new pictures!!!!


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sony1272owner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where are the freaking new pictures!!!!



I think Ruben said there'd be a professional photographer taking some snaps of the room. He might be waiting for that so it'll bowl you over twice as much.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I didn't even know that you had put all the chairs in the room. Did you decide to keep what you had or get some other model?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I didn't even know that you had put all the chairs in the room. Did you decide to keep what you had or get some other model?



I kept the chairs, everyone said I needed to, so I listened.







All the chairs are still not in the theater. I have the 3 Front chairs in and the other 4 are still in the boxes.


Also, I am still wiring the rack, and it is taking so long because I am waiting for a few components and wires to arrive.


Also, my helper labled the column grill frames and I cannot find the matching #'s on the columns. I tried to randomly fit them in place and they are not be lining up right. So I am waiting on him to either call me or return from his vacation to get those finished. He personally cut those precisely to fit perfectly and they were all in place before and for some reason I can't get them in place.


I tried to get in touch with him with no luck, I am expecting him to return next week hopefully.


After that get's done, I will have my Photographer friend come through and shoot the whole room, entrance, etc. professionally.


Ruben


----------



## SbWillie

SANDMAN,


what's the HT benefit to a stagger studded wall over a regular wall?


----------



## ebr

SBWillie - The answer is sound isolation. You can find a lot of info about it out here with a search, but one of the best discussions starts here --> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post6704685


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, what did you end up doing for the entrance area? You were asking for opinions, but I never saw anything after that.


That HAS to be frustrating with the grills!


----------



## chiphayes

Ruben...


Just to add to the peppering of questions:


Did you ever decide on an anamorphic lens and a masking system?



Chip


----------



## Skippard

Congrats Rueben! The theater has opened! Enjoy, and we are all eagerly awaiting the professional photos.


Skipp


----------



## Psychoholic

I can't wait to see the finished pictures. This has been one of the coolest projects I've ever seen someone document.


----------



## thaxx

I'm sure since your theater turned out so great most of us have forgoten some of the early steps you took to isolate the sound from escaping the room.

I was wonder how your end results were in that department.


----------



## xrayii

Great work Sandman. I was just looking at your very first post and the layout of your theater room. I notice that your side surrounds are between your 2 rows of seating. I cannot remember what you used for your side surrounds but are they dipoles? I was under the impression that diploles should go directly beside the intended "sweet spot".


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *xrayii* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great work Sandman. I was just looking at your very first post and the layout of your theater room. I notice that your side surrounds are between your 2 rows of seating. I cannot remember what you used for your side surrounds but are they dipoles? I was under the impression that diploles should go directly beside the intended "sweet spot".



Martin Logan Scripts were used for the 4 surrounds. They are an electrostat speaker and are considered a dipole.


----------



## bpape

Most dipoles would mount with the 2 sides firing to the front and back of the room. With the ML's, they act more like a mono-pole from a mounting perspective as they fire straight across the width of the room with the rear wave coming off the wall at the back of the column.


----------



## SmX

For those that been following my DIY screen thread, I am finally ready to start shipping out this new Audio Transparent screen Material. To get a sample or order some material for your AT DIY Movie Screen * READ THIS POST *


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Great news on the fabric.


I went back and re read all you posts for the last month on this and the screen thread. My question is how are you managing the image and format issue.


I guess you are going with the 2:35 screen. Are you using one of those special lens/constant height set ups? or just opening up the image and letting the leftover fall of the edge?


Then when you want to watch 16:9 what are you doing? making it smaller and adjust the aim?


Since I've got the same gun I'd like to figure this out.


----------



## KWhite

Enough with this speaker and screen talk, where are the *&$#*&@# PICTURES!!!!


And don't even think about telling us that you tore it all out to start over.


----------



## SbWillie

lol


----------



## sony1272owner

I total agree with K White.


Where are the *&$#*&@# PICTURES!!!!


Sandman you get us addicted to your home theater and you leaves us high and dry


Like a turn out $10 crackhoe!!!!


LOL


----------



## mdmaclean

Wow, I just discovered this thread. Very very impressive work...


----------



## BritInVA

Sandman - Great thread!


Really appreciate the details you included on the Starfied ceiling construction - one question I have that could not find the answer to was how the starfield panels were secured to the ceiling.


Thanks,

Mark


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - Great thread!
> 
> 
> Really appreciate the details you included on the Starfied ceiling construction - one question I have that could not find the answer to was how the starfield panels were secured to the ceiling.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark



Ruben was going to use velcro but ended up using brads instead. He told me that he can still see the seams at times. I have been trying to figure out a method to hide the seams better but have not come to any conclusions. If you are doing a similar ceiling and have any ideas please share them.


Joe


----------



## BritInVA

Its going to be a couple of months before I get to the Starfield construction.


From Rubens pictures those panels look too heavy for Brads or Velcro. Wonder if a construction similar to a suspended ceiling will work - at least if there is a problem they can be taken down.


----------



## chinadog

Mark,


Here's Ruebens response to the question on hanging the star ceiling panels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7383670 


Bud


----------



## BritInVA

Thanks Bud


----------



## ebr

It seems like you could minimize your seams by putting the panels up first and then covering the whole thing with GOM. If your star celiing area is 11' or less in width, you could only have one seam down the middle of the whole thing.


I guess the question would be if the fabric would sag over a long span like that (hanging upside down).


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its going to be a couple of months before I get to the Starfield construction.
> 
> 
> From Rubens pictures those panels look too heavy for Brads or Velcro. Wonder if a construction similar to a suspended ceiling will work - at least if there is a problem they can be taken down.



The Panels weigh about 5 - 7 pounds each. They were very light plus they were snug fitted in place as well. So brad nails were more than enough to hang them.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It seems like you could minimize your seams by putting the panels up first and then covering the whole thing with GOM. If your star celiing area is 11' or less in width, you could only have one seam down the middle of the whole thing.
> 
> 
> I guess the question would be if the fabric would sag over a long span like that (hanging upside down).



That's a huge nightmare. I was going to attempt that but working above your head, spraying glue, stretching fabric so it doesn't sag and trying to feed fibers through the GoM would of been the biggest nightmare. Besides, you only see the seams on bright scenes during a movie. I have a fix for the Seams already though, we are using edgebanding covered with GoM to hide them. Its practically invisable.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great news on the fabric.
> 
> 
> I went back and re read all you posts for the last month on this and the screen thread. My question is how are you managing the image and format issue.
> 
> 
> I guess you are going with the 2:35 screen. Are you using one of those special lens/constant height set ups? or just opening up the image and letting the leftover fall of the edge?
> 
> 
> Then when you want to watch 16:9 what are you doing? making it smaller and adjust the aim?
> 
> 
> Since I've got the same gun I'd like to figure this out.



Hey DC,


Yes 2:35:1 is the Screen, I'm going to be using an anamorphic lens for constant height with 16:9.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's a huge nightmare. I was going to attempt that but working above your head, spraying glue, stretching fabric so it doesn't sag and trying to feed fibers through the GoM would of been the biggest nightmare. Besides, you only see the seams on bright scenes during a movie. I have a fix for the Seams already though, we are using edgebanding covered with GoM to hide them. Its practically invisable.



What is "edgebanding"?


Joe


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ok like everything else I'm sure you will do a great job of researching the anamorphic lens. After you do your research, let us know which one you went with and how you attached to the H79.


Call me BigLAZYinDC


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok like everything else I'm sure you will do a great job of researching the anamorphic lens. After you do your research, let us know which one you went with and how you attached to the H79.



And on that note, how you plan on using it in conjuction with the projector box.


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is "edgebanding"?
> 
> 
> Joe



Edgebanding is the thin strip used on the edge of cabinet doors See Picture below.


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben,


How did you mount your Center Channel Speaker? Mine is not as large as yours, but it is still a monster at 27.0 x 16 x 11.5in* (W x H x D) and 55 lbs.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YldeSyde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How did you mount your Center Channel Speaker? Mine is not as large as yours, but it is still a monster at 27.0 x 16 x 11.5in* (W x H x D) and 55 lbs.



The Martin Logan has a bracket with It


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Edgebanding is the thin strip used on the edge of cabinet doors See Picture below.



So are you glueing the gom to the edgebanding and then glueing that combinationo ver the seams?


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Martin Logan has a bracket with It



Is the ml center channel not bi-polar? Don't you need space behind it?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the ml center channel not bi-polar?
> 
> Don't you need space behind it?
> 
> 
> Joe



There is space behind it, see the picture below. The bracket swivels behind the speaker for wall placement. They made the bracket so the speaker is about 6" - 8" from the back of the electrostatic Panel to the wall.


----------



## bigmanBP

Having consumed this thread, as well as your DIY screen thread, in two big sittings, I have to say that I am truly, deeply impressed. Not only by your exceptional HT - which is stunning - but also by your construction/finishing talents, your careful, considered documenting, and your no holes-barred problem solving. Especially appreciated the starfield ceiling info as that has been about the last design element of my own HT (about to begin soon) that I hadn't quite figured out how to implement. Of course, after seeing your process it all seems blindingly obvious. So THANKS, congrats, kudos and BRING ON THE FINAL PHOTOS!!!


----------



## drizznay

After reading this entire thread over the last couple of days (work, what work?!) all I can say is:


----------



## khellandros66

I finally caught up from page 47, haven't checked a month or so and must say this theater is orgasmic (har har) and prolly the coolest DIY Project I've come across.


Anxiously awaiting the final specs and pics too.


~Bob


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Where did you get the cotton batting material that you used on the wall behind your prescenuim?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Where did you get the cotton batting material that you used on the wall behind your prescenuim?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



BPape sells it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I got a couple emails asking me about how I finished my column covers. I completely forgot to post that a while back so here are the pictures. I was originally was going to use black GoM but I liked the look of speaker grill cloth much better. Speaker grill cloth is much smoother and slicker looking for the column grills IMO.


So we started with the wood frames we originally made from the pieces we cut out from the columns.











Then we liquid nailed the curved perforated steel we had made to the wood frames. Instead of clamping them down to dry, we screwed them down to dry so it wouldn't take 50 clamps to do all 6 Column grills.





















After it dryed overnight, came out the next day and removed all the screws and sanded off any excess glue that might off seaped out the perfs. I didn't leave the screws in because light will be shining directly down on these columns and all the imperfections will be noticed when the lights are on. We need these perfectly smooth to have speaker grill cloth on top and not show through any bumps. GoM would of been a lot more forgiving but the speaker grill cloth was more along the lines of what I wanted. So after the sanding and wiping, we hit them with some flat black paint so the silver steel doesn't shine through.











Then we sprayed the wood with some 3M spray glue and wrapped them with the speaker grill cloth. We will reinforce the 3M with staples.




















All Done!


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Did you get them to fit in their places? Last I remember, the helper you had who figured out where each one goes was out on vacation or something and you couldn't figure it out.


----------



## Frank D

Great looking column covers.


Where did you buy that curved perforated steel?


Any issues with the sound coming though the curved perforated steel?


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great looking column covers.
> 
> Where did you buy that curved perforated steel?
> 
> Any issues with the sound coming though the curved perforated steel?



Frank, See this post by Ruben.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you get them to fit in their places? Last I remember, the helper you had who figured out where each one goes was out on vacation or something and you couldn't figure it out.



Yes, the numbers were hidden up high in the columns, but I finally found them myself.


Ruben


----------



## tob!

Give it up Sandman! Your Photographer isnt comin, we want to see Pictures..


----------



## ebr

Give him a break. I think it was like two months after I "finished" my last room that I actually got around to getting the last bit of trim and such up. He's enjoying the fruits of his labor right now. He'll get to it when he gets to it.


----------



## Andy238

Awe, ebr, you just want him to send you your screen.


----------



## Exacto

Looking good Sandman.


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


How do you like your American Lites? I am at the point of ordering lights to go in the light trays. Would you do anything different with them? Are they working out ok?


edit: I also cannot read the image on their web site. Do you remember the dimensions of them?


Joe


----------



## KWhite

It's been like two months since we have seen new pictures. Either Ruben is so broke that he cannot afford to take a digital picture or he is working on another room or better yet that boat-in theatre in the back yard. Cold turkey hurts...got the shakes for a .JPG fix.


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys, I'm Still here and still watching my thread. I should be getting some pictures done shortly.


For those who haven't been following my DIY Screen thread, I have been busy researching my AT Screens and finally found 2 incredible Audio Transparent DIY screens to use in my theater. I been sending out material to a bunch of guys in that thread and they are liking what they see.


Anyway, Stay tooned, more to come!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How do you like your American Lites? I am at the point of ordering lights to go in the light trays. Would you do anything different with them? Are they working out ok?
> 
> 
> edit: I also cannot read the image on their web site. Do you remember the dimensions of them?
> 
> 
> Joe



They are awesome! They don't get hot or anything to bother me. They are a seamless part of my theater and they accent the columns and stage beautifully!


Also they are plenty bright enough alone at 35 watts each. Allot of people were questioning that before. I have 11 of those in the room which is 385 watts total power. The fiber optic starfield ceiling on full power also lights up the room a bit too.


As far as dimensions, Damn you got me there. I can tell you this, they are the smallest MR-16 Type 120 volt fixtures you are going to find.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are awesome! They don't get hot or anything to bother me. They are a seamless part of my theater and they accent the columns and stage beautifully!
> 
> 
> Also they are plenty bright enough alone at 35 watts each. Allot of people were questioning that before. I have 11 of those in the room which is 385 watts total power. The fiber optic starfield ceiling on full power also lights up the room a bit too.
> 
> 
> As far as dimensions, Damn you got me there. I can tell you this, they are the smallest MR-16 Type 120 volt fixtures you are going to find.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Thanks. Silly me. I just looked more closely at YOUR pictures of the lights and was able to do a pretty good estimate of the size. I ordered 14 of them










Did you use the same lights for over your stage? I am a little concerned about using these in a closed in area. I am guessing they are not UL approved.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, Stay tooned, more to come!
> 
> 
> Ruben



LOL, your video work must be with animation. This is the second time I've seen you use the word "tooned" instead of "tuned"










Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. Silly me. I just looked more closely at YOUR pictures of the lights and was able to do a pretty good estimate of the size. I ordered 14 of them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you use the same lights for over your stage? I am a little concerned about using these in a closed in area. I am guessing they are not UL approved.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yes, I used the same lights above my stage, 5 above the stage and 6 for the columns.

They have version with cans but they are a little bigger and I personally didn't like the look of them. Check out Ronnie Jacksons thread, I gave him a link to them.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I know that you kept about a 1/4 inch space all around your stage. My quesiton is, how did you fasten the wall that the screen is in? Did you nail it to the stage and put some sort vibration absorbative connectors to the outer walls and the joists?


Can you tell where I am in my project??










Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I know that you kept about a 1/4 inch space all around your stage. My quesiton is, how did you fasten the wall that the screen is in? Did you nail it to the stage and put some sort vibration absorbative connectors to the outer walls and the joists?
> 
> 
> Can you tell where I am in my project??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



I used foam Padding around The Screenwall.


I want to touch on something here. I am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has. I have a velodyne DD18 sub on the Stage and with it cranked all the way up (1,800 watts) the room lacks bass. It's almost like the stage completely killed the Sub. This is a sub that used to shake my whole house when it was in a regular untreated room before.


I think there are 2 type of people here. People that like to feel that bass pressure in and people who think tight bass is the way to go. To be honest, I should of made this decision first and then I might of not filled the stage with sand to kill It too much. I can have the sub cranked all the way up and stand right in front of it on the stage and it feels like its not even on. Yes it is on and it is properly set. I went over the settings a few times with a few different people. I also tried moving the sub around and the best response according to BPape was in The Middle and he feels I shouldn't change It.


I want to get your opinions guys. Should I pull the logan system out and throw something with horns in there or do the Genelec set up? The logans Sound cool and all, but they lack that punch in this room. They need to be in a more reflective room to enjoy them properly. The room is killing the abmience and punch of them and I even tried putting solid board behind them to reflect more with not much improvement.


Ruben


----------



## TheSpoon

Tear the whole room down and redesign it using an Infinite Baffle Setup...










Nelson


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheSpoon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tear the whole room down and redesign it using an Infinite Baffle Setup...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nelson



I thought about that but the neighbors might not like that.


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:



> Quote:
> I used foam Padding around The Screenwall.



I found some neoprine weatherstripping today.



> Quote:
> am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has.



- Have you measured (radio shack, ETF5) -- is it really low, or just something you think is happening

- Is it only in certain spots? (adding absorbtion moves the axial modes)


I have two 500watt subwoofers B&W ASW 675 and with radioshack they are set to the same dB as the fronts, but sometimes I put my hand on them to see if there's any bass in the room. They're probably a bit low.


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I used foam Padding around The Screenwall.
> 
> 
> I want to touch on something here. I am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has. I have a velodyne DD18 sub on the Stage and with it cranked all the way up (1,800 watts) the room lacks bass. It's almost like the stage completely killed the Sub. This is a sub that used to shake my whole house when it was in a regular untreated room before.
> 
> 
> I think there are 2 type of people here. People that like to feel that bass pressure in and people who think tight bass is the way to go. To be honest, I should of made this decision first and then I might of not filled the stage with sand to kill It too much. I can have the sub cranked all the way up and stand right in front of it on the stage and it feels like its not even on. Yes it is on and it is properly set. I went over the settings a few times with a few different people. I also tried moving the sub around and the best response according to BPape was in The Middle and he feels I shouldn't change It.
> 
> 
> I want to get your opinions guys. Should I pull the logan system out and throw something with horns in there or do the Genelec set up? The logans Sound cool and all, but they lack that punch in this room. They need to be in a more reflective room to enjoy them properly. The room is killing the abmience and punch of them and I even tried putting solid board behind them to reflect more with not much improvement.
> 
> 
> Ruben



My $.02:


I'm sort of puzzled as to why people do entire-room acoustical treatments for their theaters. Granted, I haven't heard that many, and I'm not an expert or an audio engineer, but some I have heard (with some very expensive gear) lack just those dynamics and punch you're talking about. Everything just seems a little anemic and a little "lifeless" -- the sound doesn't (IMO) re-create the "you're there" true-to-life, visceral, exciting experience.


I'm in the process of re-doing my theater, both structure and equipment (currently have Krell pre/pro and monoblocks; upgrading to their new Evolution line). I'll probably be going with mbl Radialstrahler or Revel Salon spkrs (maybe the new Mirage OMD line if it's really fantastic), and I'm only going to to moderate acoustical treatment to let the spkrs (including my DD-15) "do their stuff." Definitely no front-wall treatment, and probably just 1st-reflection for side walls and maybe a little back-wall diffusion (room is fully carpeted).


I know many disagree with this, and probably most of them are far more knowledgeable/experienced than myself, but that's the type of sound I personally prefer.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I want to get your opinions guys. Should I pull the logan system out and throw something with horns in there or do the Genelec set up? The logans Sound cool and all, but they lack that punch in this room. They need to be in a more reflective room to enjoy them properly. The room is killing the abmience and punch of them and I even tried putting solid board behind them to reflect more with not much improvement.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I am about to ramble a little, so my apologies. Also, this is all just my opinion. I am sure there are many folks that will have differing opinions.


As I have stated before, I used to own electrostats. I had Janzen electrostats for many years and then I had Martin Logans. Electrostats, by their very nature are extremely directional. Hence the curves you see in the current designs. The Janzens I had used fins in front and back to direct the sound.


Electrostats are also bidirectional. By that they radiate both front and back. Not the same as dipole speakers. You really need to have electrostats about 1 1/2 to 2 feet away from a reflecting wall to appreciate them. For many years I loved electrostats for my critical listening.


In my opinion however, this is not what you want for a home theater. Maybe when everything was stereo but now that you have 7 speakers able to do the work of what was two previously you really don't want those reflections. I would let the electronics handle the multiple sound fields through separate and distinct speakers that don't have a dual radiation.


I currently have maggies, so for my critical listening I still have speakers that are bi-directional.










Regarding the use of studio monitors, I own part of a recording studio and I would not think that I would want studio monitors in my home theater either. Studio monitors are meant to be extremely directional and have a very tight sound field. More importantly they are designed to reproduce sound in a very critical nature. I don't believe I would want that level of precise sound in my theater. I want something a little more generic. To me, the sound should be THERE but not come to the forefront of my attention. To me, when watching a movie, my brain should be halfway between the audio and the video. It should not be paying specific attention to either. I believe in that space is where you really enjoy the content.


Ruben, I wish I was a couple of weeks closer. I ordered a complete matching set of speakers for a 7.1 system but don't have them yet. I also don't have the room far enough along to even try them out when they arrive. I will be happy to PM you the web site of the speakers if you wish. But they are very nice generic speakers with great measurements.


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I think there are 2 type of people here. People that like to feel that bass pressure in and people who think tight bass is the way to go. To be honest, I should of made this decision first and then I might of not filled the stage with sand to kill It too much. I can have the sub cranked all the way up and stand right in front of it on the stage and it feels like its not even on. Yes it is on and it is properly set. I went over the settings a few times with a few different people. I also tried moving the sub around and the best response according to BPape was in The Middle and he feels I shouldn't change It.
> 
> 
> ...



This is interesting because I had the exact opposite experience. When I went from an insulation-filled stage to a sand filled stage as a platform for my sub, the bass response in the room was MUCH better. Of course, this was in entirely different rooms and at different times (same sub, though) so not very scientific - but the bass was much better in the second room.


Due to this - I would tend to think maybe the culprit is something other than the sand-filled stage.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want to touch on something here. I am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has. I have a velodyne DD18 sub on the Stage and with it cranked all the way up (1,800 watts) the room lacks bass. It's almost like the stage completely killed the Sub. This is a sub that used to shake my whole house when it was in a regular untreated room before.
> 
> 
> I think there are 2 type of people here. People that like to feel that bass pressure in and people who think tight bass is the way to go. To be honest, I should of made this decision first and then I might of not filled the stage with sand to kill It too much. I can have the sub cranked all the way up and stand right in front of it on the stage and it feels like its not even on. Yes it is on and it is properly set. I went over the settings a few times with a few different people. I also tried moving the sub around and the best response according to BPape was in The Middle and he feels I shouldn't change It.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I am a little confused by your comments. Obviously the sub is still putting out the same amount of "pressure" as it was before. Actually probably more because you have it cranked now. So what must be missing is the fact that you cannot "feel" the vibrations because of the sand. I don't think you made a mistake putting the sand in the stage though. Can you imaging the major booming you would get by putting your sub on a huge empty wooden box? I don't think you would like that either. So what to do?


Try placing the sub in different locations around the room for testing. Take it off the stage even. See if you can find a place where you like the sound and feel of it. Once you find it, then work form there with both placement and acoustics to keep you satisfied. You might find that you can't get the feel you used to have because you are now on concrete and you used to be on joists.


I know some folks don't like them but I also have buttkickers. I keep them very low but just enough to "feel" the bass a little. IMO, buttkickers are very easily turned up too high and then it becomes fake feeling and distracting and my mind turns to them rather than enjoying the movie.


For your sake and mine I hope the sand is not the issue. I hated hauling it in and I would hate hauling it out even more










Joe


----------



## SmX

The whole front wall is treated with 4" cotton top to bottom.

The Corners on the Stage are stacked with cotton from the stage to the soffit (for Bass).


The walls all around the room are treated with 2" cotton in specific spots 2 feet from the floor and 2 feet from the soffit they are the pink strips in the drawing below.


The ceiling is treated with 1" 703 where indicated with the pink strips in the drawing


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, sorry to hear about your displeasure. I like bass. I like to hear it, I like to feel it.


When I was coming up with the layout for my room, since it was not a standard shape, I decided to go with two subs. I put one up front close to the corner and one in the back middle. They are simple Titanic 1000 (10" Dayton drivers in a Vance Dickason designed box with a 250 watt amp each). I also put in the inexpensive Aura shakers (one on each chair). I have found that the level of bass in my room is awesome. Would I like more? Sure. Do I feel I need more, not really. I already have instances where the door to the room shakes and I know that the gutters outside the room vibrate as well, I went outside one time to see how much you could hear.


I do think that the shakers helps with the impact of the subs, but I don't feel I have turned my subs down since I have the shakers like some people may do.


FYI, I treated the full front wall between my columns and half-way up all the way around, I also have carpet on the floor and platform. I did not insulate the platform or use any sand (I don't have a stage). We watched Transporter 2 last night (basically a lame plot, but had a few good chase scenes) and was very happy with the amount of bass that I had.



All that said, I would try adding a second sub somewhere else in the room and see if that helps. Borrow one from a buddy for a weekend or something, to see if you can get a little more of what you were expecting back into your life. I understand what Joe is talking about with the electrostats, and believe him, but I think that is a whole different topic, since you are asking about the bass, not the mids or highs.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> 
> I found some neoprine weatherstripping today.
> 
> 
> 
> - Have you measured (radio shack, ETF5) -- is it really low, or just something you think is happening
> 
> - Is it only in certain spots? (adding absorbtion moves the axial modes)
> 
> 
> I have two 500watt subwoofers B&W ASW 675 and with radioshack they are set to the same dB as the fronts, but sometimes I put my hand on them to see if there's any bass in the room. They're probably a bit low.



Yes I took readings with ETF, a calibrated Mic and RoomEq as well. BPape said the Bass response looked really good from 20 hz up to 400hz


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We watched Transporter 2 last night (basically a lame plot, but had a few good chase scenes) and was very happy with the amount of bass that I had.



Ha ha, a real good friend of mine was in that movie in the first ass kicking scene. He was the driver with the steeling the car that got his as kicked. That movie was horrible compared to the first one IMO. My friend was also in Bad Boys 2 he was in the Gang that stole the car transporter and he was unloading the cars off it during the chase scene.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is interesting because I had the exact opposite experience. When I went from an insulation-filled stage to a sand filled stage as a platform for my sub, the bass response in the room was MUCH better. Of course, this was in entirely different rooms and at different times (same sub, though) so not very scientific - but the bass was much better in the second room.
> 
> 
> Due to this - I would tend to think maybe the culprit is something other than the sand-filled stage.



If I take that Sub and throw it on the concrete floor then it performs like I expect it should. Same for when I throw it on the insulated chair platform. Like when you are watching King Kong and King Kong growls I feel it should be more intense like other people described.


I want Sound that rips your heart out your chest, what do you guys recommend?


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:


With your sub on the stage, can you play test tones from 15hz through 80hz, and feel the stage? Does it vibrate?

Is there a thick carpet under the sub?

Does your sub have plastic feet, or spikes?

Basically I'm wondering if your sub is moving (bad), or if it's moving air (good).


What happens if you put a 3/4" (or 1.5" thick) 4x8 sheet of plywood vertically against the front wall near the subwoofer? (i.e. 2 pi loading => twice the volume in bass)


Were you getting a modal boost from some other spot?


I thought a sand filled stage was a good thing for a subwoofer to push off of. You could put some concrete patio stones under the sub for a test.


----------



## theirishgonzo

i would do 1 of two things eather move the sub to the center of the back wall or buld a ib in to the wall metween the house and the theater


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want to get your opinions guys. Should I pull the logan system out and throw something with horns in there or do the Genelec set up? The logans Sound cool and all, but they lack that punch in this room. They need to be in a more reflective room to enjoy them properly. The room is killing the abmience and punch of them and I even tried putting solid board behind them to reflect more with not much improvement.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand what Joe is talking about with the electrostats, and believe him, but I think that is a whole different topic, since you are asking about the bass, not the mids or highs.



Hmmm, maybe I misundersood Ruben's last paragraph? I thought Ruben was also questioning the MLs.


Joe


----------



## bpape

When I looked at the response measurements, the bottom end was pretty consistent. The decay control is definitely not overdone looking at the waterfalls. If anything, the subwoofer frequencies are a bit on the hot side. I don't think it's in the sub range that the lack of punch is happening. I think it's in the bottom end of the MLs.


When we originally did the design, the area behind the main MLs was to have been left untreated so we'd get the back wave appropriately. Didn't end up getting done that way though - the whole wall is treated. Also, the MLs have a rear firing woofer. Due to the restrictions on where the false wall is, the MLs are basically right against the front wall without sufficient room to 'breathe'.


I personally think what is going on is a choking of the ML's backwave - both panel and rear woofer - coupled with a total change in the type of room and lack of 'boom' that had been there before.


We did discuss using other speakers besides the MLs but Ruben had already purchased them and wanted to use them. The reasons we discussed were exactly these things that are now potentially causing issues.


If it were me Ruben, since you have access to the Genelecs, I'd try them and see what it does. That would at least allow us to verify or eliminate some potential issues.


----------



## jikkjack

Holy crap.







You have 4" of cotton on the entire front wall + bass traps?

I would imagine that right now your room makes the bass punch and die like Lars Ulrich's kickdrums - great for a song but bad for an explosion.


IMO - Sounds to me like you are trapping way too much bass on the front wall giving you the tight bass not the bass pressure. You say when you move the sub out away from the 4" cotton wall and corner bass traps...you get more bass you can feel. I am no acoustical engineer, but seems like this is the problem. Maybe try replacing the 4" of cotton on the entire front wall to just a 1" Linacoustic or equivalent. I would think with all 4 corner traps you are covered with reflections.


Acoustical treatment surgery anyone? Oh yeah, I could be (and probably am) wrong but I am trying to help.










Good luck Ruben.


Jikkjack




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I used foam Padding around The Screenwall.
> 
> 
> I want to touch on something here. I am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has. I have a velodyne DD18 sub on the Stage and with it cranked all the way up (1,800 watts) the room lacks bass. It's almost like the stage completely killed the Sub. This is a sub that used to shake my whole house when it was in a regular untreated room before.
> 
> 
> I think there are 2 type of people here. People that like to feel that bass pressure in and people who think tight bass is the way to go. To be honest, I should of made this decision first and then I might of not filled the stage with sand to kill It too much. I can have the sub cranked all the way up and stand right in front of it on the stage and it feels like its not even on. Yes it is on and it is properly set. I went over the settings a few times with a few different people. I also tried moving the sub around and the best response according to BPape was in The Middle and he feels I shouldn't change It.
> 
> 
> I want to get your opinions guys. Should I pull the logan system out and throw something with horns in there or do the Genelec set up? The logans Sound cool and all, but they lack that punch in this room. They need to be in a more reflective room to enjoy them properly. The room is killing the abmience and punch of them and I even tried putting solid board behind them to reflect more with not much improvement.
> 
> 
> Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...I want Sound that rips your heart out your chest, what do you guys recommend?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Gosh, I dunno, but I sure hope the cotton isn't the issue. I will have 7" of it.


You also have your soffits filled with it, right?


I'm not familiar with your sub so maybe it is even better than this, but how 'bout: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-ultra2.cfm as a solution?


----------



## chriscmore

To me, the two main things your sound lacks, making it overall seem boring, is:


1) The MLs are too close to the wall. They are dipolar and sound much better - punchier - when spaced at least 2' from the walls. They're therefore difficult to integrate well into a HT, but still offer their low-level "magic." The second aspect to these types of speakers is that they're inherently compressive on dynamic peaks. I have a lot of experience with planars, and while I'm incurably addicted to their mid-level transparency, they don't hold a candle to the dynamic snap and impact of horns (e.g. Tannoy, Avantgarde) A snare drum pop in a pure recording should startle you. Cause you to blink. Under the most ideal setup, MLs will not likely do this.


2) You're seating is on a concrete pad. Many HTs are constructed on floating floors, as the vibrations across the floor improve the perceived dynamics of the sound. We're used to feeling 20Hz as much as hearing it, and when you strip out any tactile sensation, you strip out part of the natural way we perceive sub-sonics. Adding tactile transducers could possibly help, but that seems very difficult to integrate well. Adding more subs could help by just brute forcing acoustical coupling into your seats via air (assuming your sub/stage/concrete floor isolation are nearly total).


Or going to a different type of subwoofer, one that is inherently more efficient at lower frequencies, and can pressurize a space with lower distortion and power requirements than any other sub type - infinite baffle. The back wave doesn't have to be exposed to the outside; an attic will do. Any space that has at least 10xVas of the drivers you use. I have a basement HT, and while the concrete floor is difficult to shake, an infinite baffle sub is the only type where in-room SPL can increase as the frequencies decrease (until Fs, which is typically 14-16Hz, is reached). It is common to be able to reach 120dB at 12Hz, with less distortion, less power needs, less expensively and without boxes in the room, with an IB setup. The name of this game is displacement (area x excursion) and low Fs. Watching "Black Hawk Down", with near-live SPLs at 10Hz, is a scary experience, one which concrete will not stop. Many worry about structural damage, although that's never been reported to happen. More likely is neighbor relations damage, although I've never heard of that, either. Here's a great forum if this peaks your interest. http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi I'll never use anything else - the higher performance at lower cost is an addictive combination.


Cheers,

Chris


----------



## bpape

Again, there are a couple of issues here.


The bass absorbers are larger than what was designed. The soffits are not fully utilized for bass absorbtion. There is a lot of HVAC ducting up there. So, basically, the only bass control in the room is a few feet of the soffiting and the front corners if you discount the front wall. This is less than doing all 4 corners.


We did look at the possibility of it being too much by covering it with hard plywood behind the speakers and subs and it didn't fix the issue. Also, based on the frequency response graphs, the dips that remain are above the subwoofer range - again, pointing to the too close proximity of the main speakers to the front wall.


If pulling the sub out into the room fixes the issue then do it. I simply looked at a couple of sets of plots and found the one that had the best response. Again, it's actually a bit hot for the sub. What I think is not being heard is the boom that was in the old untreated room.


What I normally do when I do a room is to get the basic shell done. Then, before putting up any treatments, move the sub around and take measurements to find the best response. Then we do the treatments. The issue here is that the area available for the sub is SO small that there really aren't a lot of choices .


I've discussed this with you Ruben about pulling down some of the mateiral on the front wall. I've asked to take measurements and listen with the sub with reversed phase. What bothers me is that the measured response and decay does not match with the perception of a lack of bass. The FR curve shows basically +/- 4db from about 40Hz to well over 120Hz with a peak of about an additional 3db around 20-25Hz. Doesn't look like a lack of subwoofer output to me.


We will get to the bottom of this one way or another. I've done many rooms with a soft front wall of the same material and never had this issue before.


ebr,


Your situation is very different.


- You really don't have much else in the way of bass control due to the room shape and layout.

- Your sub and mains will be MUCH farther away from the absorbtion and the front wall due to your recess in that area.

- You have much more flexibility in sub placement.


----------



## CaspianM

I just recently finished my room. When I listened to my room for the first time, sound was absolutly crappy. My room is all treated also. The problem was a huge dip in 60~150 hz. Eventuall I ended up pulling all the 703's behind the speakers. I have NHT towers with ported base enclosure.


----------



## bpape

Well, not sure that was the real issue but can't say for sure. Again, if that was the issue, then the plywood experiment should have given some indication of that - it didn't. If there was a big dip in his response curve, I'd start looking at it - but there isn't. If anything, the levels from 80Hz down are hotter than the rest.


We're still working on it. When the sub comes out into the room the bass gets much better. If it was overabsorbtion, that shouldn't make that much of a drastic difference. I still think some of it is cancellations between the rolloff of the sub coupled with the rear woofer of the Logans sitting so close to the wall and killing their own waves.


----------



## CaspianM

I think your assement of"I personally think what is going on is a choking of the ML's backwave" has to be looked in closely also.


----------



## rm1759

Can you put another sub in the back corner of the theater? If I recall, I thought you had pre-wired the stage for transducers, why not use this wiring for an additional sub to give you that extra punch?


----------



## SmX

Here are some Specs on the Sub I am Using...

(Not my Picture below)











Velodyne DD18 powered subwoofer in sealed cabinet of 1"-thick MDF

Driver: 18" Kevlar-reinforced cone with tandem voice coil, 24-lb magnet

Frequency response: 14-120Hz, +/-3dB

Inputs: LFE (XLR, RCA), L/R (RCA). Speaker-level (5-way binding posts)

Outputs: L/R (RCA)

Amplifier: 1250W RMS, 3000W peak

Highpass filter: 80Hz (fixed), 6dB/octave

Lowpass filter: adjustable in 1Hz increments, 15-199Hz; slope adjustable: 6, 12, 18, 24, 30, 36, 42, or 48dB/octave

Phase: adjustable in 15° increments, 0-180°; polarity adjustable (+/-)

Other: high-gain servo for reducing distortion; signal generator/video sweep output; test microphone & mike cable included; Digital Drive for electronic management of in-room response

Finishes: gloss black; maple or cherry veneer

Dimensions: 23" {x} 21.25" {x} 19.25" (H{x}W{x}D)

Weight: 120 lbs

Price: $4999


----------



## ebr

Looks like a monster. Hard to believe you're not getting enough output out of that thing...


----------



## CaspianM

Unless there are heavy bass traps that can be pulled for an experiment, your room treatment cannot be responsible for any loss of base below 75Hz. You may be experiencing lack of upper base/low midrange. I don't know for sure but it is hard to believe that your situation is caused by lack of mid~low bass. Placing any speaker close to wall could create a similar problem unless the speaker is designed for that application. If possible pull those speakers at least 16" from front wall and give it 24" from side for a run.


----------



## David Ferguson

If the problem is really the ML woofer's proximity to the front wall, you might try this experiment: Turn the MLs around, so the woofer faces the screen (you can't see the speakers anyway, since they are behind the screen).


Many have already made the point that the ML radiate bi-directionally, and while the curvature may give rise to some cancellations, you should be able to "aim" them to at least get one "sweet spot" for a listening test.


If this helps the "punchiness", then you know what to work on.


----------



## ebr

Sandman - on a different topic - I think I remember that you used a sprayer to apply your stain. Was it an air compressor driven one or a paint sprayer? If it was a compressor driven one, how big is your compressor? I was looking into getting an attachment for mine but all the sprayers say they need a fairly large compressor tank to work, and mine is only a 6 gal. pancake...


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Ferguson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If the problem is really the ML woofer's proximity to the front wall, you might try this experiment: Turn the MLs around, so the woofer faces the screen (you can't see the speakers anyway, since they are behind the screen).
> 
> 
> Many have already made the point that the ML radiate bi-directionally, and while the curvature may give rise to some cancellations, you should be able to "aim" them to at least get one "sweet spot" for a listening test.
> 
> 
> If this helps the "punchiness", then you know what to work on.



I was going to recommend trying this same thing, but I am really confused because Ruben says that moving the subwoofer out to the main area or the seating platform brings the bass back that he wants. So it has to be something with the subwoofer, doesn't it?


Either way, it would be a good experiment to flip the MLs around.


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was going to recommend trying this same thing, but I am really confused because Ruben says that moving the subwoofer out to the main area or the seating platform brings the bass back that he wants. So it has to be something with the subwoofer, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> Either way, it would be a good experiment to flip the MLs around.
> 
> 
> Joe



Could it be an interaction between the two? Could it be that, with the sub back behind the screen, and the ML woofers firing back there too that we've got some sort of cancellation happening here?


----------



## BasementBob

CaspianM:


> Quote:
> your room treatment cannot be responsible for any loss of base below 75Hz.



Although at grazing incidence high frequency sound tends to reflect from absorbers, SandmanX's front wall's LF (30hz to 300hz) grazing absorbtion is probably fantastic. I'll see if I can come up with some graphs later. It's why in post #1831 I queried about what happens if he puts a lot of plywood in front of it.


Somewhere I had the feeling that there was 4" of insulation with a 4" airgap behind it over the entire front wall. But I looked at SandmanX's drawing and I have no idea (and someone said the subwoofer was behind the front wall, rather than sitting on the stage). If there's a 16" airgap behind it, then grazing absorbtion is going to be alarmingly broadband.


How low do the L/R speakers go (re Bpape's concern about the speaker-sub interaction out-of-phase cancelling)? Are they bass-managed ?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Ferguson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If the problem is really the ML woofer's proximity to the front wall, you might try this experiment: Turn the MLs around, so the woofer faces the screen (you can't see the speakers anyway, since they are behind the screen).
> 
> 
> Many have already made the point that the ML radiate bi-directionally, and while the curvature may give rise to some cancellations, you should be able to "aim" them to at least get one "sweet spot" for a listening test.
> 
> 
> If this helps the "punchiness", then you know what to work on.



The Martin Logans Odyssey's have a Woofer in the front and the back. 10" in the front and 8" in the Back. The back panel part of the Logan is about 30" from the back wall.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I think I just have too much bass absorbtion in the room. That sub use to almost crack the windows in my house at 1/4 volume. I had to put shimmies in my windows because they use to rattle from the earthquake bass that sub delivers. I bought that sub for a reason, it was because when I heard it perform in my friends house I almost **** my pants.


The front wall is all 4" - 5" cotton. The cotton is glued directly to the drywall. The soffits are loaded with cotton too. To get an idea of how much cotton is in the room, the boxes in against the window in the picture below are all cotton. Then I got 2 more deliveries of cotton after that with about 6 - 8 more boxes worth.













This was the first reading I did on my room once I set up the speakers in the theater.

The Sub was a little hot in this reading because I wasn't feeling it.


----------



## Nexus1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want to touch on something here. I am not happy with the lack of Bass my room has. I have a velodyne DD18 sub on the Stage and with it cranked all the way up (1,800 watts) the room lacks bass. It's almost like the stage completely killed the Sub. This is a sub that used to shake my whole house when it was in a regular untreated room before.



Ruben,


I'm with you I like feeling sound through my bones. Maybe it's because of the first live concert I attended or the first time I watched Top Gun on LD.


I apologize if this has already been answered but I didn't have time to go back through this amazing thread. Did you build a floating floor or is your theater on a concrete slab? It does sound as if the stage is a contributing factor. Much like putting a sub on a concrete slab it will dramatically reduce the amount of bass felt


If I can provide a speaker solution that meets your requirements, will you send me the Logan's free of charge?







This poor man can dream.


Have you ever auditioned the old Pork SRT's? I realize that many will say the word Polk shouldn't even be mentioned in a thread of this caliber. However, they definitely deliver the sonic impact you're describing. They can produce the kind of SPL that jars your innards (and kills your hearing). I would compare the SRT's sound to something along the lines of a high-end car audio setup. I'm not talking about the imaging aspect, just the sonics. Polk doesn't make these anymore but I'm sure you could track down a used pair with some effort. The best word I've heard to describe them excess. I think Matt's quote does a good job as well "I wanted a system capable of such effortless power and clarity that, as you turn up the volume, it literally scares you,"


I've auditioned countless subs and it's definitely an important part of the solution. A good friend has the Velodyne 18 you are running and it definitely moves enough air. However, a sub is only half the equation. Electrostatics sound beautiful but they're not very good at moving large volumes of air.


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:


I'm confused.


I've got no clue what your front wall looks like.

I've been through this entire thread looking for pictures, including staring at the layout drawing on the prior page of this thread.


I have no idea where your Velodyne DD18 subwoofer is.

I've little idea where the other woofers are.


I think you've got a 2.5' airgap behind your screen. I'm guessing you've got drywall around the screen, with 5" of cotton on the room side, except where the screen is. How you did that with 2x4's I've no idea. The rest of the area behind the screen is basically a big open room with a single 'window' (not sure if I should model it as a helmoltz or as a coupled room). You've got two corner traps back there, and a couple of thin absorbers, and a big black cloth.


You've made no comment about whether the martin logan's bass is effectively off from 80hz down due to bass management. If they're on, in that 'room' behind the screen, I'd have no idea how to get 4 of those woofers in phase with a subwoofer.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> 
> I'm confused.
> 
> 
> I've got no clue what your front wall looks like.
> 
> I've been through this entire thread looking for pictures, including staring at the layout drawing on the prior page of this thread.
> 
> 
> I have no idea where your Velodyne DD18 subwoofer is.
> 
> I've little idea where the other woofers are.
> 
> 
> I think you've got a 2.5' airgap behind your screen. I'm guessing you've got drywall around the screen, with 5" of cotton on the room side, except where the screen is. How you did that with 2x4's I've no idea. The rest of the area behind the screen is basically a big open room with a single 'window' (not sure if I should model it as a helmoltz or as a coupled room). You've got two corner traps back there, and a couple of thin absorbers, and a big black cloth.
> 
> 
> You've made no comment about whether the martin logan's bass is effectively off from 80hz down due to bass management. If they're on, in that 'room' behind the screen, I'd have no idea how to get 4 of those woofers in phase with a subwoofer.



The wall that the Center channel is mounted on in the picture below is the wall with the 4" - 5" Cotton. It is covered with Black Muslin. There is a part of that wall that isn't covered with cotton which is behind the Center Channel so the reflections are not dead on it.


The Screen Wall is around 30" from the cotton covered front wall. The screen wall is all framed out and covered with GoM. It is not a solid wall.


Anyway the sub sits right below the Center Channel (Not seen in the picture below) In between the Cotton wall and the screen wall.


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:


I'd seen that picture. It lead me to several wrong conclusions -- and of course didn't show the subwoofer.


Is this your layout? Is there anything wrong with this? Anything you think you should add?










Which of those postitions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (or some other position where chairs are not) does your subwoofer sound good at ?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> 
> I'd seen that picture. It lead me to several wrong conclusions -- and of course didn't show the subwoofer.
> 
> 
> Is this your layout? Is there anything wrong with this? Anything you think you should add?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which of those postitions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (or some other position where chairs are not) does your subwoofer sound good at ?



Wow That is cool of You to put that drawing together, thanks for taking the time to do that.


Everything looks about right in the drawing, except the following...


1) My center channel is mounted on the wall with the pink. The hard space behind it is 14" x 44" or so.

2) The back wall between the 2 columns has a 4' x 4' x 2" cotton treatment as well. 3) The the whole front soffit above the stage is tightly packed with cotton as well. That soffit is 12" tall x 30" wide x 15 feet long 100% filled with cotton.

4) The Soffits all around the room are also filled with cotton

5) The front 2 columns are filled from top to bottom with cotton and the 4 back columns are filled with cotton in the top above the speakers and the bottom below the speakers.


I tried the sub in spot # 1 and it sounded much better. I threw it on spot # 4 and it sounded good too. Prob is my chairs will be in spots 4 & 5, spot 2 is the Door to my theater, spot 1 is in the middle of the room. Spot 3 and the opposite corner would be idea for a sub placement as well.


The corner bass traps on the stage are 24" x 24" x 34" as well and are 7' Tall.











Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

A friend of mine has a pair of these sitting in his garage. I was thinking about picking them up to try them out in the room.











and if they didn't work, I could always go this route...


----------



## Nexus1

I thought the Polk's might be a little more practical but you could also go this route...



> Quote:
> SUB HORN BUILDING
> 
> 
> The Biggest SUBWOOFER of the WORLD, for the most esoteric Audio and AUDIO-VIDEO Room of the World. The Highest efficiency ever obtained with NO hearable distortion using NO feedback tube low power amplifiers and NO crossover on the speakers. To understand how this is possible, you can read all thruout the WHITE PAPERS, here you will find answers to all your questions.


 http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm 











Or maybe an array of these...


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:



> Quote:
> 3) The the whole front soffit above the stage is tightly packed with cotton as well. That soffit is 12" tall x 30" wide x 15 feet long 100% filled with cotton.



Is that soffet above where the subwoofer is in the drawing, or above the curved part of the stage. i.e. which side of the GoM ?



> Quote:
> spot 2 is the Door to my theater,



How about same place, but on the opposite side of the theatre (bottom of drawing).


What are your bass management settings on your receiver? Are you sending full frequency to your martin logans ?


Have you tried a LF frequency sweep only to your subwoofer (LFE channel)?


Where are you when you are saying it's better? Are you merely closer to the sub? Have you sat on the stage and listened?


Is your criteria for 'better' only that you feel the vibrations?


----------



## khellandros66

SandmanX,


Why not build a pair of Subs that have dual SoundSplinter RL-p15 and a Behringer EP2500 to drive each enclosure.


As for the actually speakers take a good look at the Triad InRoom Platinum LCRs.


~Bob


----------



## bpape

Bob.


The front wall has 4" of cotton directly to the wall. No air gap.


The sub and the main MLs are basically right against the front wall.


The original design called for 17x17x24 bass absorbers and the front wall covered except for behind the main speakers to allow the backwave of the panels to reflect as designed.


What has be bugged is getting the bottom end much better when moving the sub. That introduces so many variables itself that it's difficult to determine WHY that works. Is it the change of phase interaction between the sub and listener? Is it the change in phase interaction between the sub and the mains? The DD18 has 15 degree phase increment adjustments.


If the front wall was in fact too dead too low and that was the issue, then why would moving the sub make that much difference? You're still deadening it the same amount in terms of the room itself.


I actualy have another customer who has a 5.1 ML Prodigy system with a Velo DD18. I'm going to ask him to do an experiment in his place by putting the MLs and the sub right up against the front wall and see what his experience is. It will be somewhat different as his room is basically a concrete shell with foam and drywall glued over it (no stud walls) but at least I might be able to see what's up with just the proximity issue.


----------



## BasementBob

Bpape:



> Quote:
> If the front wall was in fact too dead too low and that was the issue, then why would moving the sub make that much difference? You're still deadening it the same amount in terms of the room itself.



That's not quite right, it's not 'the same'. The difference is when it gets absorbed.

I had been thinking the room was laid out like this instead









and that would have had a HUGE effect on bass.

But the way it actually is in SandmanX's room, I just don't see LF absorbtion being a dramatic difference. Could be I'm missing something.


Which leads me back to:

a) the stage floor is moving, robbing the subwoofer of power

b) the subwoofer/main interaction is wrong.

as my first two guesses to prove wrong.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Which leads me back to:
> 
> a) the stage floor is moving, robbing the subwoofer of power
> 
> b) the subwoofer/main interaction is wrong.
> 
> as my first two guesses to prove wrong.



I cannot imagine the stage is moving. I am currently building the stage and have the cavities 3/4 filled with sand. 3 of us tried to budge it and could not. I don't remember the exact lumber that Ruben used but I have 2x8s throughout the main stage area. Heck, we even tried 3 guys on a single corner and could not get it to budge.


Regarding the subwoofer/main intereaction, a good test would be to just turn the mains off and see if the low end improves.


Joe


----------



## Mark P

Make darn sure theres not a hidden feature for LFE hidden in the menues or any bass management. Not sure what reciever he has but I would dig deep into that, I have literally dozens of Sub options on a Denon 5805 before even getting to my sub amp that has another several option such as phase and crossovers and gain. I have discovered areas deep in menues that are sub killers on the 5805 like all the THX subwoofer settings and hidden gains in onboard parabolic EQing and even after all this and everything running, all flags operational I can push the select button and have had the subs gain set to -10. Why? who knows , I always have all the gains set to 0 but every once and awhile I will check and these settings have changed. I know its a pain in the arse but the way i would check is to move the sub outside the room and see if it knocks your socks off again, if so the room is to dead. Period.


That seems like alot of absorbtion for that size of room (4"-7" behind the screen??? plus pretty substaintial bass traps, stuffed open soffits, stuffed columns, thick padded carpet, staggered stud walls probably stuffed. I forgot, whats inside the risers?


I can understand this if Ruben played the cello or violin but this room was for movies with explosions and theres a fine line between acoutically treating a room and making it dead.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If the front wall was in fact too dead too low and that was the issue, then why would moving the sub make that much difference? You're still deadening it the same amount in terms of the room itself.



Even when he moves the sub next to him I think he's still dissapointed if I am reading correctly, but it makes complete sense that it would get better next to him than placed next to a million cubic ft of cotton 15' away. From what I am understanding he feels no pressures on his body. Maybe somehow the round columns that no one could model correctly are creating a huge null, He said when he sticks his head in the back ( non trapped) corners he hears the best bass in the room which would make sense, not that thats the type of bass he would probably want but instead traps if possible.


He needs to keep all his settings the same and extend the sub wire out into the next room If the bass is back to what it was originally than its simple what the problem is.


----------



## bpape

Yes. There's a lot of bass absorbtion in the room. And, it's all in the front as that was the only available place for it. We have discussed several different options. However, again, if you look at the FR and waterfalls for the room, they do not show it being overly dead.


My guess is sub/mains integration and phase issues. When the sub is pulled into the room, you're not only changing the proximity to the absorbtion, but also the phase relationship to the listener, and the phase relationship between the subs and the mains.


Bob, I'd agree to a point. If this were a rear ported sub then absolutely it could be an issue - not just the absorbtion but the lack of 'breathing room' for the port to the wall right behind it. But, it's not. It's a sealed front firing sub. There should be plenty of front and side wave with just the wraparound backwave being damped.

Mark,


The columns being stuffed really only have about 5-6 Sq Ft of absorbtion directly available to the room. The rest is just damping inside the solid parts to keep them from resonating. The soffits have a large section of them that are only half full with the balance being HVAC work. This is probably the back half of the room soffits and the entire rear soffit. Also, the side faces of the soffit are not open.


The rest of the room is not wholly covered with absorbtion like Linacoustic around the entire perimeter, etc. There are strategically placed 2" thick absorbers at refleciton points and on the rear wall between the columns. Other than that, it's relatively live.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I have this image of a an Episode of CSI miami.


Horatio and team are called to this house in Boca to investigate the death in a Home Theater. Laying on the floor is a man with this **** eating grin on his face.


Around the room are a dozen Massive Sub-Woofers.


After investigation it was determined that the man happened to be standing at a peak node when he turned the system on and ran a sweep of deep bass LFE sounds. The intense bass vibrations caused an aneurysm in his brain.


Thereafter the phase he's got the "DB DBs" was used to describe a surge of Death By Deep Bass Syndrome among members of a website known as AVSforum.


----------



## Mark P

LOL at Bigmouth. Several times during King Kong I thought i was going to need paramedics.


Bpape, do you think he should take the sub out of the room and see if he has pressure or not? If his room is infact as live as you say it is , is there some way he has created a massive null in the frequency that produces the bass he desires with a combination of room characteristics . I thought he mentioned a high dollar receiver, is there a chance he has a parabolic eq that has 10hz -60hz minimized or something? Again I would tear apart the menus here, if he has phase issues , shouldnt he have phase control on a 5K velo? If not, I would be suprised.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have this image of a an Episode of CSI miami.
> 
> 
> Horatio and team are called to this house in Boca to investigate the death in a Home Theater. Laying on the floor is a man with this **** eating grin on his face.
> 
> 
> Around the room are a dozen Massive Sub-Woofers.
> 
> 
> After investigation it was determined that the man happened to be standing at a peak node when he turned the system on and ran a sweep of deep bass LFE sounds. The intense bass vibrations caused an aneurysm in his brain.
> 
> 
> Thereafter the phase he's got the "DB DBs" was used to describe a surge of Death By Deep Bass Syndrome among members of a website known as AVSforum.



Reminds me, did you guys all see the Mythbusters where they were trying to create the "Brown note"? They had something like 32 12" Meyer Sound subwoofers pointed at Jamie and they were sweeping the sine wave to see if it would cause his body to excrete automatically. Never were able to duplicate that, but gave him a full body, internal and external, massage.


----------



## Mark P

Hes also got an HTPC in the mix, recheck all settings on the soundcard, If the room is not dead, theres something set to low gain somewhere or the sub is spent ( cone came unglued from spyder or motor is wore out)


Are speakers set to small? Is he mixing LFE + Mains on the receiver but not on the HTPC ( something conflicting in setups) I find it extremelly hard to believe a phase issue would crush compression on your chest when watching a LFE intense movie


----------



## BasementBob

jmorris644:



> Quote:
> I cannot imagine the stage is moving. I am currently building the stage and have the cavities 3/4 filled with sand. 3 of us tried to budge it and could not. I don't remember the exact lumber that Ruben used but I have 2x8s throughout the main stage area. Heck, we even tried 3 guys on a single corner and could not get it to budge.



Not the whole stage. Just the top membrane vibrating like a drum. If the sand isn't touching the top membrane, and it's only 3/4" thick, then it's gonna move like a drumskin and the sub is going to be pushing itself back and forth and not the air.


----------



## BasementBob

Mark P:



> Quote:
> I find it extremelly hard to believe a phase issue would crush compression on your chest when watching a LFE intense movie



Good point.

Anyone know what SandmanX was listening to when he said the bass disappeared?

Specifically was it something that only comes out the LFE channel (in which case who cares what the receiver or HTPC settings are, because it's only going to the subwoofer), or was it something that is directed to the 7 speakers (in which case it could be a bass management aka large/small issue).


----------



## BasementBob

Bpape:



> Quote:
> It's a sealed front firing sub. There should be plenty of front and side wave with just the wraparound backwave being damped.



Agree. I thought I said that.


----------



## themase




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hes also got an HTPC in the mix, recheck all settings on the soundcard, If the room is not dead, theres something set to low gain somewhere or the sub is spent ( cone came unglued from spyder or motor is wore out)
> 
> 
> Are speakers set to small? Is he mixing LFE + Mains on the receiver but not on the HTPC ( something conflicting in setups) I find it extremelly hard to believe a phase issue would crush compression on your chest when watching a LFE intense movie




This may sound stupid, but I had the same problem because I forgot to have the HTPC sound card pass the DD 5.1 through to the receiver. Once I checked the stupid box in the software on the htpc, voila, my bass re-appeared.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *themase* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This may sound stupid, but I had the same problem because I forgot to have the HTPC sound card pass the DD 5.1 through to the receiver. Once I checked the stupid box in the software on the htpc, voila, my bass re-appeared.



Theres subwoofer settings buried in almost everything, Thats why i mentioned the HTPC, its easy to overlook settings there. If i remember corectly I think theres more than 1 in my case, Maybe Theatertek even had a setting? I cant remember.


I can have incomming and outgoing subwoofer flags on the receiver and have no subwoofer, its sounds like theres sub because my mains are decent to 20hz, the subwoofers are moving because the mains are causing them to move ( infinite baffle, no resistance) but they are not working, I then have to go dig through the dozen places that may be causing this and I always forget to document what the problem actually ended up being


----------



## jiujitsu35

Sandman,I wanted to ask you how comfortable your 075 are.I'm getting a great deal on 7 of them with power recliners and butt shakers


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Any progress on figuring out the bass issues in your ht?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,I wanted to ask you how comfortable your 075 are.I'm getting a great deal on 7 of them with power recliners and butt shakers



I think there's a quote in this thread somewhere that he fell asleep in them and he wasn't even watching a movie. Pretty sure that means they're comfortable.


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think there's a quote in this thread somewhere that he fell asleep in them and he wasn't even watching a movie. Pretty sure that means they're comfortable.



I hope it wasn't the one on the pool table!


Bud


----------



## Erik_HTB

 http://www.genelec.com/ht/products/hts6/hts6.php 


One of the stupidest subwoofers I ever heard. If you have access to Genelec I would try it.


18" are finicky sometimes. Try leaving the door open the to the HT and see what happens. I had similar trouble with a theater w/ 2 HTS 15 Velodynes. They were having trouble moving air because the room was so tight and dead. You could hear them fine, just no "gut" to them.


Sometimes several smaller woofers are better than one large one.


----------



## CollinViegas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,I wanted to ask you how comfortable your 075 are.I'm getting a great deal on 7 of them with power recliners and butt shakers



I just received my order of {5} 075 chairs from leatherdirect.com, I think they are comfy. The power recline is very very smooth... Since they are brand new the backs seem a little to firm and puffy. When they are not reclined it kind of feels like you are being pushed off of them more then sinking into them. After they are reclined they are great. And they look awesome.


As for looks, I think they are some of the nicest chairs on the market...


----------



## BasementBob

Erik_HTB:

The genelec hts6 did really well in an magazine subwoofer outdoor shootout a few years ago.


----------



## jiujitsu35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just received my order of {5} 075 chairs from leatherdirect.com, I think they are comfy. The power recline is very very smooth... Since they are brand new the backs seem a little to firm and puffy. When they are not reclined it kind of feels like you are being pushed off of them more then sinking into them. After they are reclined they are great. And they look awesome.
> 
> 
> As for looks, I think they are some of the nicest chairs on the market...



Collin,I was curious to know what color combo you had.I was thinking of going all black but I have only seen them in two tone


----------



## CollinViegas

I have the same color combo as Ruben's only I think my Red is slightly darker. I am building a room based off of Ruben's design {thanks Ruben by the way for that} and I hope it turns out half as nice as his.


The two tone is what really sets these chairs apart from other I think, I'm sure they would look good all black but I think it may take away some of the elegance these chairs provide.


The pictures really dont do them justice at all, In real life the are real stunners and everyone that has seen mine so far cant stop the compliments. Too bad they are going in storage for the next 5 months...


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben must be out doing that video project he was talking about. He hasn't posted since April 25th!!


How will we ever get to 2000 posts at this rate?










Joe


----------



## trpltongue

A quick test to verify that the sub is operating properly and that no hidden menus are disabling it's output, would be to disconnect all the speaker wires and watch a movie with only the sub connected. This would eliminate any cancellation issues between the ML's and the sub, as well as confirm that the sub is not being cut by the receiver, htpc, etc.


----------



## SmX

For Everyone that was interested in checking out my Home Theater Construction Blog, I am adding my step by step procedure of how I built my room all organized in my SmX Forum.


You can see it by going * HERE *


You must register as a member to see that forum.


Enjoy!

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For Everyone that was interested in checking out my Home Theater Construction Blog, I am adding my step by step procedure of how I built my room all organized in my SmX Forum.
> 
> 
> You can see it by going * HERE *
> 
> 
> You must register as a member to see that forum.
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Ruben



I assume it is not up yet?

Joe


----------



## BasementBob

jmorris644

The http://www.reefin.com/smx/index.php site works fine.

Threads: 29, Posts: 203, Members: 126


----------



## miltimj

I think he means the step by step construction thread on that site.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think he means the step by step construction thread on that site.



Yes, that is what I meant. Thx.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I assume it is not up yet?
> 
> Joe



It's up, I am just adding to it before I unlock It. I should have it finished by tonight. I'm just organizing a bunch of pictures.


Ruben


----------



## dreamhost

Suffering from serious photo update withdrawl.

Doctor said if I want to long for a 'fix' I'm going to go into shock....

Please help, photo's could indeed save my life LOL......


btw

love the new site.


----------



## SmX

*For those that were interested in my Home Theater Blog, I finally got my forum up and opened to all the guests that register. It is still a work in progress but it is all mostly there. I added allot of new pictures that I didn't post here.


You can see it by going HERE 


You must register as a member to see the Home Theater Construction forum.*



Enjoy!

Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:

I'm beginning to lean towards the possibility that with your sub front center that it's perfect, and with it out in the room you're energizing a room mode and getting a boost.


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:

I'm beginning to lean towards the possibility that with your sub front center that it's perfect, and with it out in the room you're energizing a room mode and getting a boost.


----------



## RockDawg

So is this basically the end of this thread for updates on the room?


----------



## J-dubb16

Hopefully not, he was supposed to be getting final pics with a photographer. I hope he posts them here as well as on his forum.


I think he is just bust with his AT Screens. If you checkout his forum, you will see he has a lot of screen materail to send out across the globe. For his first shipment, he rented the larger delivery trucks from Home Depot and filled it twice to go to Fed-Ex. The had to be 50-60 boxes of precut screen material in each load that he was shipping...and that was just his first round of shipments.


Hopefully, we will see final pics soon.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RockDawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is this basically the end of this thread for updates on the room?



It's not end, more coming soon. I still need to finish my Marquee entrance and post the final pictures.


Ruben


----------



## RockDawg

I thought that maybe now that you have a blog, you'd post the rest of the build on there instead of here. Glad to hear you'll still update this thread.


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


How did you treat the first point of reflections on your starred ceiling?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How did you treat the first point of reflections on your starred ceiling?
> 
> 
> Joe



I used 1" 703 on The panel. I just framed out the panel andmounted the 703 then fed the fibers for the star ceiling through it. It was a pain in the ass job to do those 3 panels like that but it worked out fine.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> I'm beginning to lean towards the possibility that with your sub front center that it's perfect, and with it out in the room you're energizing a room mode and getting a boost.



Bob,


Any more thoughts or conclusions on the bass issue? I have a similar layout to Ruben's (not finished yet) and am very interested in what you have found out.


I assume that you are the "Bob" over at Acoustics Forum? I am such a newbie to this I really could not even understand what the fellow that responded to your post there was really trying to say.










Joe


----------



## BasementBob

jmorris644



> Quote:
> Any more thoughts or conclusions on the bass issue?



Thoughts yes. Conclusions no.



> Quote:
> I have a similar layout to Ruben's (not finished yet) and am very interested in what you have found out.



I haven't "found out" anything.



> Quote:
> I assume that you are the "Bob" over at Acoustics Forum?



Yes I am "Bob" at Studiotips .



> Quote:
> I am such a newbie to this I really could not even understand what the fellow that responded to *your post* there was really trying to say.



Which post. I'm over 2000 posts there too. Do you mean the post that WASN'T about SandmanX's room?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> jmorris644
> 
> 
> Thoughts yes. Conclusions no.
> 
> 
> I haven't "found out" anything.
> 
> 
> Yes I am "Bob" at Studiotips .
> 
> 
> Which post. I'm over 2000 posts there too. Do you mean the post that WASN'T about SandmanX's room?



Well, maybe the replay wasn't. But your post was







IT even had a picture of Ruben's room.


Maybe that is why I didn't understand the reply. I was trying to read it in the context of Ruben's room.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben, I noticed you are having trouble with USB-UIRT and WMCE. Have you figured anything out? I am using XP-Pro but was thinking of switching to WMCE. I bought some xantech stuff too to extend the ir.


Joe


----------



## BasementBob

jmorris644


> Quote:
> But your post was IT even had a picture of Ruben's room.



Actually, it had a picture of how SandmanX's room is NOT.


----------



## SmX

Hey guys,


I'm trying to decide whether to do red velour curtains or not. What do you guys think? Do you think the room will benefit from it?


Here is a couple Screen shots for those who haven't seen my screen thread.


Screen up from the back of the room, the screen is actually floating on the wall in these Pictures below. It was not in the opening yet...


The screen is the SmX Audio Transparent Material est. 1.2 Gain.





















Ruben


----------



## ebr

I dunno - curtains might be cool...


I couldn't tell from those pics - did you end up staining the face of those steps or did you just go over them with carpet?


----------



## jmorris644

Yeah, It is a little hard to tell from the pics. I believe that curtains really add a final touch, but I would probably do black velour curtains. The black stage that you have already has a nice look to it. I think adding black velvet would enhance what already looks good. Plus it will be easier to match shades of black than shades of red.


Joe


----------



## Mark P

I dont know about curtains, theres something cool about walking in a room and seeing a large 2.35:1 screen considering Rubens room is "clean". I suspect curtains would clutter. Now if he could put a slight curve to the curtains maybe it wouldnt look so " been there, done that" look every single other theater has


----------



## SVonhof

I don't know. I like it as is. But remember, I am one of those guys who likes to see the drivers on the speakers too.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dunno - curtains might be cool...
> 
> 
> I couldn't tell from those pics - did you end up staining the face of those steps or did you just go over them with carpet?



Nah, I just did all carpet for now. It may be a future upgrade I may do. To be honest, I had enough with staining and preparation to last me a year. I have the curtain track In place I just don't know if it's worth doing some curtains. I can always get them made, throw them up and see If I like them or not. But it's kind of a waste of money to get some $1000 curtains and decide I don't like them.


Anyone here with some good photoshop skills? Maybe cut and paste some curtains from another theater onto my theater?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ScottJ0007

Curtains can look good in theaters with a more classical decor. However, your theater has clean lines with an open feel to it. I think curtains could make it look more cluttered as MarkP suggested. The advantage to curtains would be that they could be used for an easy masking solution for your 2:35 screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont know about curtains, theres something cool about walking in a room and seeing a large 2.35:1 screen considering Rubens room is "clean". I suspect curtains would clutter. Now if he could put a slight curve to the curtains maybe it wouldnt look so " been there, done that" look every single other theater has



Hey Mark, where you been? Haven't heard from you for a while.


Curved curtain track sounds real cool. That would be real interesting. I am already thinking about doing a curved frame for the screen.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Hey Mark, where you been? Haven't heard from you for a while.



Been killin grass in my spare time, all 5 acres of lawn was taken over by velvet/crab grass with this crappo winter we had. In a mad rush to get it all done and re-seeded by tomorrow or the next day when the rains come back for a couple days and give me free water. Plus we were sick of the rye grass being so wimpy and letting weeds and such in so we are changing to good ole native Oregon tall turf fescue, that stuff will strangle out your pets if you dont watch it


Spring time means dawn to dust for about a month every year


----------



## KWhite

Do waterfall curtains...you don't see that every day in HTs.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Been killin grass in my spare time, all 5 acres of lawn was taken over by velvet/crab grass with this crappo winter we had. In a mad rush to get it all done and re-seeded by tomorrow or the next day when the rains come back for a couple days and give me free water. Plus we were sick of the rye grass being so wimpy and letting weeds and such in so we are changing to good ole native Oregon tall turf fescue, that stuff will strangle out your pets if you dont watch it
> 
> 
> Spring time means dawn to dust for about a month every year



Whoot! I don't get developers and grass... they throw ***** grass down all over here for some reason. (Kentucky Blue Grass) It dies in a heart beat unless you baby sit the stuff. I'm told they don't even want it in Kentucky, and some treat it like a weed there... I'm trying to get it all subplanted with tough as nails fescue just like you. I like mowing my grass a little tall, never fertilize it, and always mulch. Don't bag. I get the greenest lawn with the least effort. Screw Scotts, that company is evil.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whoot! I don't get developers and grass... they throw ***** grass down all over here for some reason. (Kentucky Blue Grass) It dies in a heart beat unless you baby sit the stuff. I'm told they don't even want it in Kentucky, and some treat it like a weed there... I'm trying to get it all subplanted with tough as nails fescue just like you. I like mowing my grass a little tall, never fertilize it, and always mulch. Don't bag. I get the greenest lawn with the least effort. Screw Scotts, that company is evil.



We completely killed everything because it was such a mish mosh of BS. We used Cornerstone ( roundup) and a boom/sprayer mystifier on a tractor and just went ballastic , I so tired of rye letting everything and its mother grow. All my neighbors are grass farmers and vinyards and hazelnuters and my good friend grows tall turf fescue called Rebel 3 ( the stuff is outlawed in certain areas of the world because it chokes everything) it has a 99% germ and 0% anything else and we are putting on 400lbs per acre. Your right Scotts is a joke, check out their label sometime, its full of weeds and clover and expensive as heck. Alot of folks with small lawns around here go clean out combines during harvest and reseed yearly.


Are we off topic with all this grass talk?


----------



## SmX

So Guys, If I don't do curtains, should I bother with Prosceniums on the sides?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ebr

If you do, don't make it black. I like proscenium walls because they give the front stage some depth and definition. However, you already have some columns up there flanking the stage so they may not be as important in your case. Also, you want to be sure you don't crowd your screen. If you build proscenium walls, be sure you leave some nice space between them and the edge of the screen. In my first room there was a measurement problem in the design and I ended up with this:











You don't want that.


----------



## r00ster

Ruben, I wanted to ask you about your American Lites. Are these the lights that you purchased? Also did the instructions warn you not to install those lights into ceilings/soffits or place the power cord in/through walls?


I am only asking because I found some similar lights (see attachment) at HD from Hampton Bay that says you can do recessed applications. But when you look at the fine print in the instructions it says not for use in ceilings/soffits, etc. Know I am sure this is for liability reasons, but I was wondering if your light instructions said the same thing.


Thanks


Drew


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r00ster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I wanted to ask you about your American Lites. Are these the lights that you purchased? Also did the instructions warn you not to install those lights into ceilings/soffits or place the power cord in/through walls?
> 
> 
> I am only asking because I found some similar lights (see attachment) at HD from Hampton Bay that says you can do recessed applications. But when you look at the fine print in the instructions it says not for use in ceilings/soffits, etc. Know I am sure this is for liability reasons, but I was wondering if your light instructions said the same thing.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Drew



The Lights from Specialty look like the ones I got (Picture is real small). You can see an extreme close up of my lights in my other construction thread here http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34 


Those hampton bay hockey puck lights are nothing like what I have.


Ruben


----------



## jerrodshook

Ruben,


I've been searching your thread looking for 2 things that I just couldn't find....


1. What is the width and height of your light tray? In you seats, can you see the edges of the star ceiling at all, or does it just disappear beacuse the tray is wide enough?


2. Did you get any pics of how you routed the fiber optic cables thru the soffit/tray to the ceiling?


Thanks!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r00ster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I wanted to ask you about your American Lites. Are these the lights that you purchased? Also did the instructions warn you not to install those lights into ceilings/soffits or place the power cord in/through walls?
> 
> 
> I am only asking because I found some similar lights (see attachment) at HD from Hampton Bay that says you can do recessed applications. But when you look at the fine print in the instructions it says not for use in ceilings/soffits, etc. Know I am sure this is for liability reasons, but I was wondering if your light instructions said the same thing.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Drew



I was just speaking with my electrician about this yesterday. We were talking about the different lights being UL approved or not. Basically he said that anything that you plug in is viewed as a dumb consumer lamp and does not need UL approval. Almost anything that is hard wired does need approval. So that is why the consumer is seeing more lighting options available that have plug ins.


I bought 14 of the exact same lights that Ruben used in his light trays. Actually, I bought them from the same place too. They are really nice 4" plugin lights. They are not UL approved, similarly to the puck lights.


So I am using those lights only in the light trays. They are perfect for that because you really don't want cans in the light trays because you would probably see them. Ruben's lights are only about 3 inches tall.


I have also found 2 places to get UL approved 4" cans and inserts from. The first is Menards. I was surprised to find my choice of 4 really nice 4" swivel inserts with accompanying cans. They are halogen and come in brushed satin, brass, antique brass, and white. They are $14.99 each including everything except the bulb.


The other source was http://www.sonriselighting.com/docs/recessed/ They have all kinds of lightings and are extremely reasonable. Kind of slow in shipping though. About 2 weeks.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I've been searching your thread looking for 2 things that I just couldn't find....
> 
> 
> 1. What is the width and height of your light tray? In you seats, can you see the edges of the star ceiling at all, or does it just disappear beacuse the tray is wide enough?
> 
> 
> 2. Did you get any pics of how you routed the fiber optic cables thru the soffit/tray to the ceiling?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The lights that Ruben has in the trays are 4". You can get a pretty good idea of the size of the tray based on that.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerrodshook* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I've been searching your thread looking for 2 things that I just couldn't find....
> 
> 
> 1. What is the width and height of your light tray? In you seats, can you see the edges of the star ceiling at all, or does it just disappear beacuse the tray is wide enough?
> 
> 
> 2. Did you get any pics of how you routed the fiber optic cables thru the soffit/tray to the ceiling?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



The Height of the tray is 5". You don't see the walls behind the trays in seating position. The star ceiling fades into the trays. The tray width is 10" about 8" from the front soffit Wall to the back of the tray wall.


The fiber cables just ran across the ceiling above the panels. 6 Panels on one light box and the other 6 on another one. No pictures of that unfortunately.


Ruben


----------



## barhoram

Ruben,


Great thread. I tried to search and didn't find the answer. What brand and style is the carpet that you used? I'm about to the point of having to pick out my carpet, and love the look of yours. THANKS! Andrew.


----------



## bmackrell

the answer is at the bottom of this thread: *SMX Theater Carpet Thread*


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barhoram* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Great thread. I tried to search and didn't find the answer. What brand and style is the carpet that you used? I'm about to the point of having to pick out my carpet, and love the look of yours. THANKS! Andrew.



It is Made by Masland Carpet and its called the Quadrate and the Color is called 18404 Times Square. Comes in different colors too. Go to http://www.maslandcarpets.com/Broadl...dloom_main.htm then on the left side look for Office/Home then look for Quadrate


I got it locally from Miami Carpet for around $4.00 a square foot.


----------



## BeeRock

so whats going on with this bass problem? sounds like maybe some seat shakers would help or just double up on the subs.


rueben, I think maybe a set of curtains with red and black separated fashionably would set off the room.


----------



## eshukoor

when you finish it aproximatly.....sand.???


----------



## SmX

Guys, I want to share this with you... http://www.outwater.com/ 

They have everything you could possibly imagine for building, trimming, lighting etc. and extremely good prices too. They have an online catalog but they also mail you a huge catalog as well if you request it. They stock everything there as well. I use to buy from them all the time when I lived in NY. They sell architectural moldings and all.


Ruben


----------



## GPowers

 http://www.outwater.com/ domain name not working??


----------



## guptown




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys, I want to share this with you...



Great website!


thanks


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GPowers* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.outwater.com/ domain name not working??



Works for me, you can also Google them, Outwater Plastics they are In Outwater NJ IIRC.


----------



## GPowers

Works now thanks. intresting site


----------



## KWhite

All @$#@#$'ing right, if I kick in $200.00 can we get 'final' pictures of your entire room!! If I see one more side topic started I'm going to go ^%$^&&$## postal. NEEED PICTURES....NOW!!!


----------



## miltimj

Did someone not take their Ritalin?...


Okay, so I admit I'm anxious as well, but patience is a virtue (provided there is light at the end of the tunnel!)


----------



## FoeHammer865

Where's the light though?


----------



## SmX

Hi Folks,


I posted this in The Processors section here at AVS but I wanted to ask you guys too.


I'm looking for a new processor for my Theater. Right now I have a B&K AVR-507 and 2 B&K 200.1 Monoblocks. I am looking for something with DVI and component switching. I have the Ophit 4 channel DVI switcher and I am having allot of problems with it communicating and syncing with my set up. So good switching is a must.


I only need 2 DVI inputs right Now (HTPC and HD SAT Box)


The Speakers I have in my room now are Martin logan Odysseys, Theater Center, and 4 Scripts and a Velodyne DD 18 Sub. But I am most likley going to pull the Logans out and do Axioms or Triads, as the Logans don't sound good in the room.


My primary listening is Movies 90% and 10% music. I want real good surround processing.


I was talking to Makeit57 who has an Outlaw 990 and says reviews compare it to a Lexicon MC12. He also has a Outlaw 770 Amp and using this with Axioms and loves the combo.


My budget will be whatever I can sell my Mint AVR 507 and Monoblocks for plus a few more bucks.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## miltimj

That's funny.. I was going to suggest the Outlaw 990 since I think it does everything you want (most notably, DVI/HDMI switching.. you can use an adapter for whichever type it's not).


I don't have first hand experience, though. It's just on my short list of pre/pros.


----------



## Frank D

The Anthem D2 looks like a neat product. I believe it has 4 HDMI inputs for video switching and is also a video processor.


I do not have any first hand experience with the D2.


Here is a link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=662580 


I am not sure if the D2 has any room correction yet but I think as the final tweak you may want that.


Also the Triads are great speakers, Dennis E. recommends and sells them.


----------



## ebr

I imagine the Anthem is a great unit. Of course, the Anthem costs 5 times what the Outlaw does.


Ruben - I am in the same position (but probably without your budget). My short list came down to the 990 and a good AVR used as a pre-pro. I'm pretty sure I've settled on the Pioneer Elite 74 (or its replacement if it comes out soon enough) because the 990 only has DVI switching, no HDMI inputs. This is important for me because I have a 7.1 setup and want to deliver DD+ decoded 5.1 digital streams via HDMI and then apply the BM and 7.1 processing to them. The Pioneer can do this but the Outlaw cannot.


As far as processing quality goes, I imagine there is a difference but I'm not sure how much of one when you are talking about almost all movies with a standard scheme (like DPLIIx) applied to them. In my last room I replaced a Lexicon processor with a Pioneer Elite AVR used as a pre-pro and could discern no loss in quality of sound. I am a believer that the room, speakers and amps have a lot more to do with the sound than the processor (when talking movie soundtracks).


----------



## Mark P

Which ever you choose make sure it has rock solid switching and does not add signal noise, also HDMI gets tempermental after it switches 1 time, start throwing scalers (because of anamorphic lens) in the picture on top of a 30' run of DVI to your PJ and good luck getting HDMI to DVI to work flawlessly


----------



## miltimj

Well the good thing is it will either work or it won't, being that it's digital. It will also be retransmitted between components, so as long as each link in the chain can successfully transmit the bit stream, you're fine.


The D2 is one to drool over.. especially the 1080p upconversion.


ebr, will it not work to use an HDMI->DVI adapter? (I can't figure out what BM refers to in that context).


----------



## ebr

If you use an HDMI --> DVI adapter you will drop the audio. DVI does not carry audio, only HDMI does and the outlaw has no way to accept the HDMI audio streams.


BM = Bass Management.


----------



## miltimj

I'm assuming, of course, that you'd use the digital audio out as well.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm assuming, of course, that you'd use the digital audio out as well.



Right - but that will only carry the "legacy" DTS or DD audio streams. The new HD discs will downrez their audio to one of these (DTS in the case of the current HD-DVD player) for output on the optical or coax connection. The decoded DD+ or DTSHD or TrueHD streams will only be passed on HDMI or analog connections and the analog inputs on the Outlaw (and every other processor/AVR I know of) will not allow further processing of the signal (to handle BM and 7.1 steering).


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right - but that will only carry the "legacy" DTS or DD audio streams. The new HD discs will downrez their audio to one of these (DTS in the case of the current HD-DVD player) for output on the optical or coax connection. The decoded DD+ or DTSHD or TrueHD streams will only be passed on HDMI or analog connections and the analog inputs on the Outlaw (and every other processor/AVR I know of) will not allow further processing of the signal (to handle BM and 7.1 steering).



WTF? That doesn't make any sense... (The design, not your explanation







) Looks like I have some reading to do in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD forum... Hopefully I can wade through the prevalent format wars in that forum...


Thanks for the info, ebr.


----------



## Ktulu_1

As I understand it, S/PDIF and TOS-Link don't have enough bandwidth to pass the new formats.


----------



## miltimj

Ah, it must be in the encoding/decoding then, because the medium certainly isn't the limiting factor. But I'll refer to some other threads on the subject to avoid hijacking Ruben's.. Thanks for the info, guys.


----------



## laststarfighter

Great...make that Awesome job on the theater,

you have without doubt raised the diy home theater bar.


it has made me get off my butt and finish planning mine and start the pre demo clean out.

I really want to have a htpc to store all my dvd's but the cost and reliability of the hd's are an issue, I might just set up a small one with a few of my favorite movies and my music till something better comes along.


good luck with finishing off the theater, too bad you are having issues with the speakers.

I can't wait to see the finished product and the pro pictures











the D2 is at the top of a short list of pre/pros that I'm looking at, the upgradeability and support of the Anthem line is unheard of.


S/PDIF and TOS-Link have No SACD or DVD-A support.

HDMI was designed to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio,

HDMI version 1.2 features support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD,

HDMI version 1.3 will cover the new formats, Dolby TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD.


----------



## SmX

Hey guys


Tomorrow I am going to build my compound curved 2.35:1 screen with the SmX Sound Screen Material. I am buliding it out of Extruded Aluminum 2" x 2". The frame will have a 16 foot radius Horizontal curve and a 24 foot radius vertical curve.


I will post some pictures tomorrow as I build it and get the Aluminum rolled/bent to radius in the shop.


I'm going to cross post this in my Screen thread as well.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

You may want to read the other thread about that. Compound curve screens are putting you in Torus land and you cannot do Torus screens with your screen material or any other flexible acoustically transparent screen material unless you have some design that hasn't been sen before to get the material to flex back into the frame with a perfect curve.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may want to read the other thread about that. Compound curve screens are putting you in Torus land and you cannot do Torus screens with your screen material or any other flexible acoustically transparent screen material unless you have some design that hasn't been sen before to get the material to flex back into the frame with a perfect curve.



I'm confused about that response. So you are saying I can't adjust the material in 2 directions?


Edit: Also, what about major movie houses with compound curved accoustic screens? The ones I been to are non Torus screens. This is all experimental as well, It's only costing me a few bucks to make the frame.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I just bent a few pieces of wood and thought about this problem.


As I understand your plan the four corners of the frame will be forward from the wall. If you attach stings to the diag. corners and apply tension, the stings will be flat. sitting in front of the bulk of the frame. Consider those the diag. forces.


Now you will have those diag. forces on the fabric wanting to keep it straight fighting the "square" side to side and top to bottom forces trying to create your double bend. Also factor in the fact that there are an infinite number of directional forces going in 360 degrees and the Problem is compounded.


But I am sure you'll figure out a solution to this brain teaser.


I'm thinking you could create a giant fiberglass form in the shape you want. Soak the SMX in a tub of starch. Lay on the ballon and let harden. Then mount on a frame?


Another idea is to get some SMX string and pull the screen back from the back side and tie off?


OK I found one now to figure out how they did it.

http://www.dvdfreax.com/theater/october2005/index.php 


OK found it


Screen

"Torus" -shaped screen with an aspect ratio of 1.85:1

Curved horizontally 15cm (6") and vertically 4.5cm (1.8")

402cm (158") x 218cm (86")

Screen fabric: Vutec Pearlbrite, gain 3.1

D-I-Y screen

Fabric tensioned to air-tight box, which has 2 fans to suck the fabric to a perfect toroidial shape


----------



## SmX

I'm trying to accomplish this http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/hom...cinecurve.html are the cinecurves only curved horizontally and not vertically too? Because it looks both directions to me, but it may be an optical illusion.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Looks like only one direction to me.


I'm wondering if it would be possible to do the air pressure method with an AT screen? I'm guessing the volume would be too noisy?



If you are going to try an experiment.


Fasten the four middles first with a LOT of tension. This would anchor the center as far back in the frame as possible.


Then as you move to the corners apply a steadily declining force until you get to the corners where the fabric should be just sitting there almost with no tension.


I'm guessing this is going to be a real challenge with the Pizza wheel fastening technique.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like only one direction to me.
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if it would be possible to do the air pressure method with an AT screen? I'm guessing the volume would be too noisy?
> 
> 
> 
> If you are going to try an experiment.
> 
> 
> Fasten the four middles first with a LOT of tension. This would anchor the center as far back in the frame as possible.
> 
> 
> Then as you move to the corners apply a steadily declining force until you get to the corners where the fabric should be just sitting there almost with no tension.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing this is going to be a real challenge with the Pizza wheel fastening technique.



That makes my life much easier then if the curve is only horizontal. Phew. I guess my movie house is the same thing. Just looks like a 2 way bend.


A taurus AT Screen? LOL, imagine the dust after a week or two sucking through the perfs.


The aluminum will be rolled to a 16 foot radius. 16 feet is the distance from my lens to the screen wall thus giving me the radius.


Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Dust? with all that volume it wouldn't stand a chance. Just have to be careful not to let children or pets get to close to the screen.


I can hear your friends now. "Yea, I was at Rubens last night and his screen really sucks"


Maybe the next hurricane that comes your way you can leave a window open and try an experiment for us.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

What kind of place did you find to bend the frame? I am thinking of getting a stainless steel bar foot rest and I need a 2 inch pipe curved out about 12 inches on a 10.5 ft run. I need to get it done in a way that the pipe doesn't flatten too much or the supports won't slide on.


----------



## BasementBob

I thought projector lenses were designed to focus assuming the screens were flat.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought projector lenses were designed to focus assuming the screens were flat.



Anamorphic pincushion, even the best have it


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Yes, even the best anamorphic lenses will have some geometric distortion, but that doesn't change that the optics of the projector are designed to focus on flat screens. There's no such thing as a free lunch and so you are giving up a little focus to get rid of pin cushion.


With pincushion, you can mask to hide it, but what will you do with the focus issue?


One other benefit of the curved screens is reducing some of the drawbacks of higher gain screens, which is why they have been very popular.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I think you need to do the fan box behind the tarus screen. Why? Just because you have done everything else to the same level of detail that this would require. Problem is, you probably don't have the space for a box like that (would not have to be all that big, but it would have to have fans powerfull enough to pull some air and quiet enough to not create the noise level.


Could be done. With the area of the screen, it probably wouldn't require all that much fan power even though it is not a solid screen, since there would be resistance as long as you moved enough air.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Scott, ain't no way it is happening. Not only would there be a massive amount of air required, you have to remember that the woven screens are much thicker/stiffer than the vinyl screens that are used for vacuum torus applications.


Putting that much air though the screen would make the screen dirty fairly quickly as it becomes a large filter unless you watch the movies in a clean room. Also, a fan that would move enough air would make a lot of noise and even if you eliminate that noise, you have to deal with the noise generated by the air going through the screen with enough force to bend it. None of these screens move when a sub is right behind them firing away, so think of how much air you really have to move.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of place did you find to bend the frame? I am thinking of getting a stainless steel bar foot rest and I need a 2 inch pipe curved out about 12 inches on a 10.5 ft run. I need to get it done in a way that the pipe doesn't flatten too much or the supports won't slide on.



Just a local metal shop with a rolling machine. Basically a rolling machine is 3 solid steel rolling bars that adjust to bend steel, including hard bends on I-Beams.


Looks like this. I will bring the camera to the metal shop tomorrow and shoot some flicks as they bend it.


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm trying to accomplish this http://www.stewartfilmscreen.com/hom...cinecurve.html are the cinecurves only curved horizontally and not vertically too? Because it looks both directions to me, but it may be an optical illusion.
> 
> 
> Ruben



It's clearly just curved horizontally. The vertical sides are straight; if there were also a vertical curve the vertical sides would be curved as the horizontial sides are.


Curving in both axes wouldn't work. If you imagine the screen as a graph paper grid, you can curve the paper along either the x- or y-axis, and the paper will lie flat and the grid will still be all squares. If trying to curve the paper along _both_ axes, the paper would have to have elastic properties to conform to the contours, and the only square grids would be in the center; as you moved towards the sides they would become progressively stretched (non-rectangular).


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rider* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's clearly just curved horizontally. The vertical sides are straight; if there were also a vertical curve the vertical sides would be curved as the horizontial sides are.
> 
> 
> Curving in both axes wouldn't work. If you imagine the screen as a graph paper grid, you can curve the paper along either the x- or y-axis, and the paper will lie flat and the grid will still be all squares. If trying to curve the paper along _both_ axes, the paper would have to have elastic properties to conform to the contours, and the only square grids would be in the center; as you moved towards the sides they would become progressively stretched (non-rectangular).



Yes, they would be non-rectangluar when viewed from a perpendicular angle, but when viewed from the center point of the radius, they will appear geometrically correct.


This does bring up a point, however. With such a screen, people on the edges will experience a bit of geometric distortion in the image they see.


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, they would be non-rectangluar when viewed from a perpendicular angle, but when viewed from the center point of the radius, they will appear geometrically correct.
> 
> 
> This does bring up a point, however. With such a screen, people on the edges will experience a bit of geometric distortion in the image they see.



You wouldn't have to get to the point where you're perpendicular (horizontally) to see the distortion of a given grid. As the viewer moves horizontally away from the focal point of the radius (assuming you have seating for more than 1







), the grid distortion would gradually become more and more visible. Same applies in vertical direction (risers, different head heights). You also lose the illusion of all squares in the grid as you move backwards or forwards from the focal point. In other words, unless your head is at the focal point of both radii, the grid becomes distorted.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With pincushion, you can mask to hide it, but what will you do with the focus issue?



The bend is 9"from the wall on both ends, let's see what happen's with focus. It is all experimental. It may be fine, I still have my flat frame as well if the curved doesn't work out. I will be using an ISCO lens if this guy I'm buying it off ever emails me back.


This is a top view of the bend to scale.


----------



## rider

I used the graph paper visualization because I'm assuming most (all?) non-commercial lenses are designed to project onto a flat plane, so it's like your trying to superimpose something flat on a curved surface.


But even if a lens is designed to project onto a surface with both x- and y-axis curvatures, moving off the focal point causes the image to distort. Imagine sitting in the middle of a sphere with globe-like longitude and latitude lines. From the center of the sphere, all grids along the 'equator' appear as true squares (which they are). Move away from the center of the sphere, and those squares begin to distort.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rider* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From the center of the sphere, all grids along the 'equator' appear as true squares (which they are). Move away from the center of the sphere, and those squares begin to distort.



A nitpick, but they are not actually "true squares".


I'm excited that you're looking into the curved screen route, Ruben. I'm planning on that design as well. However, in my research I've learned that the proper radius is not equal to the throw distance, or seating distance. It's something of a combination between those factors as well as the lens and projector. It's a complex calculation that I'm not sure how to do, but if you search here for curved screen radius calculations it will probably turn up some interesting info. Both Alan and Dennis were involved in the discussion that I remember.


----------



## miltimj

I found the thread about calculating screen curvature ....


----------



## ebr

What problem are you attempting to solve with a curved screen? Or, were you just looking for a challenge...?


----------



## Mark P

I think hes trying to solve the problem of being like everybody else. A curved screen adds a factor of cool to the front of the room even if it is slightly curved. Poindextor brings up a good point though, while it may be nice with nothing projecting, it may hinder the best experience during watching movies. I am glad Rubens going to find out and save me possibly more money on two 14' long peices of aluminum being bent.


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A nitpick, but they are not actually "true squares".



Nitpick answer: true -- I should have said they _appear_ as true squares: all 4 lines intersect at 90 degree angles (assuming small squares), and all z-axis variations of the lines disappear to the observer (all points on the surface of a sphere are equidistant from the center point).


----------



## SmX

Hi Folks,


So today I went to bend my movie screen frame. I snapped some pictures for those who wanted to know how they bend it.


Here is the aluminum extrusions I used. They are 2" x 2" x 12 feet long. They have a 1/16" wall.











Here is the machine they used to bend the extrusions. The wheels on it in this picture are for bending pipe. They had to change Those extremely heavy wheels with a fork lift and a lifting belt.











Here are the wheels being changed using a forklift and a belt. Those wheels weigh about 400 lbs each.




















The 3 new wheels are now on the machine and ready to bend the 2" extrusions..











The aluminum extrusion goes in on the right side. You see it in the machine on the right Side going In between the wheels.











Then it feeds through with the bottom wheels guiding it and the top wheel creating the bend.











Here is a close up of the wheels on the machine.











Almost done.











All Done.











Unfortunately the 2" Aluminum I used had a 1/16" wall and the machine kind of crushed it. It is still usable to test however.


Tomorrow they are picking up some 2" x 2" aluminum extrusions with a 1/8" wall that won't crush like these did. So I will be picking up those tomorrow.


Later on I will make the frame with the stuff I got now just to check sizing. Thanks miltimj for the link to the formula to get the radius.


Posting this in the Screen thread as well.

Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> 
> So today I went to bend my movie screen frame.
> 
> Ruben



I don't know why but sometimes you just crack me up. ^_^


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know why but sometimes you just crack me up. ^_^


----------



## SmX

I was reading in one of Staged threads that he had the Sony 777 DVD changer modded to use SDI out. Does anyone here know about those type of mods?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## Tedd

SDI modification makes a digital transport out of the dvd player. You skip a digital to analog conversion (when using the component outputs), plus an analog to digital conversion to scale. Noticeable improvement in picture quality. Better colour vibrancey and more 3D pop to the image, due to less noise.


Excellent performance to cost ratio if your scaler or pj has a SDI input, or option for one.


There's an extensive Poor Man's SDI thread. Some players require fine soldering skills to solder to chipset legs, while some players have suitable solder points on the motherboard.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tedd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SDI modification makes a digital transport out of the dvd player. You skip a digital to analog conversion (when using the component outputs), plus an analog to digital conversion to scale. Noticeable improvement in picture quality. Better colour vibrancey and more 3D pop to the image, due to less noise.
> 
> 
> Excellent performance to cost ratio if your scaler or pj has a SDI input, or option for one.
> 
> 
> There's an extensive Poor Man's SDI thread. Some players require fine soldering skills to solder to chipset legs, while some players have suitable solder points on the motherboard.



Would you happen to have the url to that thread? I can't seem to find it.


thanks


Joe


edit: ok, i get it







"Poor Man's SDI" is the actual title of the thread.


----------



## BasementBob

 AVS Thread: Poor Man's SDI


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

I think JVB Digital was the only one that was doing SDI mods for changers - i could be wrong.


Ruben, SDI is a MAJOR step up in scaling vs using an analog connection to a scaler. You will not regret it. You can also run SDI for a very long distance, allowing you to move the changer into another part of the house if you run out of room in the rack or want to cut down on light and noise from the transport


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think JVB Digital was the only one that was doing SDI mods for changers - i could be wrong.
> 
> 
> Ruben, SDI is a MAJOR step up in scaling vs using an analog connection to a scaler. You will not regret it. You can also run SDI for a very long distance, allowing you to move the changer into another part of the house if you run out of room in the rack or want to cut down on light and noise from the transport


 http://www.msbtech.com/products/sdi.php does SDI upgrades for a couple hundred bucks less than JVB Digital I just learned. It may be worth the upgrade to get HTPC performance off a DVD changer. Only prob is the Scalers I've seen only have 2 SDI inputs. I have 3 Jukeboxes right now and mybe more in the future. Maybe an SDI switcher? But I want to eliminate 3rd party switching.


I would really love to have the same digital quality as my HTPC in a DVD jukebox without having to Rip 1200 DVDs to HD


Ruben


----------



## SmX

On the Subwoofer issue I had, I learned that I had an issue with the sub itself. So I sent the Amp Plate out to velodyne for repair and they also updated all the parts and Rev to the latest and greatest on the 18" Sub. I should Have it back in a few days.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.msbtech.com/products/sdi.php does SDI upgrades for a couple hundred bucks less than JVB Digital I just learned. It may be worth the upgrade to get HTPC performance off a DVD changer. Only prob is the Scalers I've seen only have 2 SDI inputs. I have 3 Jukeboxes right now and mybe more in the future. Maybe an SDI switcher? But I want to eliminate 3rd party switching.
> 
> 
> I would really love to have the same digital quality as my HTPC in a DVD jukebox without having to Rip 1200 DVDs to HD
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


If you are interested the scaler that comes with the new Optoma 1080P projector looks like it has 4 HDMI Inputs.

http://www.optoma.co.uk/optomav2/mod...ss-Release.pdf 


Joe


----------



## SRH1

Ruben, maybe this will solve your DVD library needs:

http://www.plasmon.com/dvd/dvdlibraries.html 


You could even burn your movies to 2-sided DVD's and get 4300 movies in one library the size of a refrigerator. And with multiple drives in the library you can watch a different movie in each room of your house! Video on demand for all your guests.


----------



## SmX

Curved Screen Update.


I used Dazian to test for now for sizing. What I am going to do is bend some 2" x 2"s with the Spline grooves in the front of the frame instead of the back this time for the final frame. The spline side is much stronger than the non spline side that crushed.


With the spline in the front of the frame, it is much easier to spine the smx in place and then on the back of the frame. Then to cover the spline, I will trim out the frame with a beveled wood (like a small base board) wrapped In black velour screwed in place from the back of the aluminum frame.


It should look really sweet once trimmed out with the black velour frame.


As far as focus issues there are none. I ran some test patterns and it looked the same from edge to edge as far as I can tell on the Dazian CCC.


Some Pictures


Angle brackets used on all the inner corners.











Frame Complete.











Frame fits in existing opening.




















Support brackets used on back of frame.




















Wrapped in Dazian for testing.


----------



## jmorris644

Dang it Ruben!!! That looks way too cool not to do it. Grrr. More work for me.










Joe


----------



## ebr

But now, you gotta curve your screenwall opening too...


----------



## mastiff34

Never ceases to amaze me the things you are pulling off Ruben, Excellent works, looks great !!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But now, you gotta curve your screenwall opening too...



Working on that now.


----------



## Spaceman Spiff

Very nice looking screen!


----------



## Mark P

Good job Ruben, glad you didnt have focus problems! Guess thats another theory shot down. Cant wait to hear/see the results of the SMX curved screen. Now you you dont have to have all your speakers in a sraight line, another benefit of the curve


----------



## chirpie

Just thinking aloud, but would the bent screen help fight moiré problems or is stretching the fabric with a slight rotation still a better way to fight it?


----------



## miltimj

Wow, very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like with the velour/trim front.


Why does the top middle of the last picture look like it's not attached completely? It just seems odd that you'd "install" it in there without the top pulled taught.


Great job! Keep 'em coming!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like with the velour/trim front.
> 
> 
> Why does the top middle of the last picture look like it's not attached completely? It just seems odd that you'd "install" it in there without the top pulled taught.
> 
> 
> Great job! Keep 'em coming!



Thanks,


You're seeing a shadow of the procenium wall from the lights above. The curved screen is recessed inside the existing proscenium wall for the meantime.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just thinking aloud, but would the bent screen help fight moiré problems or is stretching the fabric with a slight rotation still a better way to fight it?



So far no-one has reported Moiré with the SmX beside ebr which found out he was running the SmX material in the wrong direction thanks to the directional discovery by Mark P.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good job Ruben, glad you didnt have focus problems! Guess thats another theory shot down. Cant wait to hear/see the results of the SMX curved screen. Now you you dont have to have all your speakers in a sraight line, another benefit of the curve



Yeah it looks real slick too. I didn't think there would be any focus problems, my last theater had a curved wall I projected on and I had no focus issues then.


The Dazian is dark as hell so there is no worthy movie shots to take by camera.


Ruben


----------



## warrenP

Its looking great! Keeps getting better and better.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, very cool. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like with the velour/trim front.
> 
> 
> Why does the top middle of the last picture look like it's not attached completely? It just seems odd that you'd "install" it in there without the top pulled taught.
> 
> 
> Great job! Keep 'em coming!



Congratulations Tim!


You hit the milestone post of 2000.


But I guess the real congratulations goes to Ruben for the great thread.










Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


FWIW, I was doing some random research on automated curtain controls and ran across this company. I didn't get past the 1st paragraph and thought I would point it out to you. What caught my eye was the fact that they would custom bend the traveller. For your new curved screen an automated drape system that would match the curve would look amazing.

http://www.automatedshade.com/directdrive.php 


Joe


----------



## Mark Lem

On the speaker wire, any reason you went 10 gauge as opposed to say 12, and did you get it off the internet (I'm looking for a cost-effective e-supplier)


----------



## ebr

Wow - I never noticed the 10ga wire before. I thought 12 was overkill...


How on earth do you get 10ga wire to hook up to anything. Most binding posts barely fit my 12.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow - I never noticed the 10ga wire before. I thought 12 was overkill...
> 
> 
> How on earth do you get 10ga wire to hook up to anything. Most binding posts barely fit my 12.



My current critical listening setup uses 6 guage stranded. I needed to peel back some of the strands on the ends to make them work. (I also pushed real hard to get as many strands as possible into the plugs.)


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark Lem* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the speaker wire, any reason you went 10 gauge as opposed to say 12, and did you get it off the internet (I'm looking for a cost-effective e-supplier)



I used regular 10 Gauge Python zip cord Speaker Wire. I bought a 500 foot roll from I bought a 500 foot roll from Here 


I went with a heavy guage due to the longer runs and to be future upgrade proof. I used heavy duty gold plated spades and locking bananna plugs to connect the wire to components and speakers.


Ruben


----------



## BFauska

Hey Ruben,


You may have allready thought of it but I'll post it anyway, you may be able to use the curved test pieces of screen frame to re-frame your proscenium. That way the radius would match and you don't have to do any PITA woodwork.


Everything is looking great, keep up the fantastic work.


Later,

Brian


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

The radius would actually be different unless his proscenium is to be flush with his screen. If you want a 1' lip, then you add 1' to the radius.


EDIT: reduce the radius by 1" for a 1" lip. I was thinking convex like a stage and not concave like a curved screen.


Then again, it would only really show well on the edges, so you could probably get away with it if the shift was small.


----------



## stef2

That curved screen looks incredible...guess I'll try to build one for myself.


----------



## gondey99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> You're seeing a shadow of the procenium wall from the lights above. The curved screen is recessed inside the existing proscenium wall for the meantime.
> 
> 
> Ruben




The talent on here just keeps amazing me. That screen is excellent!


----------



## SmX

I got a question for you 2.35:1 CH guys using an anamorphic lens.


My projector (Optoma H-79) is mounted on the bottom of my soffit. It is mounted upside down. The bottom of my soffit is exactly 12" from the top of my 2.35:1 CH screen. So the Optoma lens is about 8" above the top of my screen now. Up to now I have been using a lens shift to project on my screen.


I got my ISCO lens today and want to know what is the recommended height I should be from the PJs lens to the top of my screen now I got the ISCO? Should I drop my projector down 8" so the PJ lens lines up with the top of my screen without shifting it?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I found the thread about calculating screen curvature ....



Hey miltimj, I was just reading that thread and noticed someone posted a picture with a torus screen and I noticed the theater had Genelecs in them, in fact the same ones I was talking about using earlier on in this thread. That was interesting.


From that thread..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flint350* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Being ill-informed and newly about to join the CH ranks (via AVS of course), I knew little of the "torus" screen characteristics. I did some research and now understand. I assume this is a good representation? (158" X 86"):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet these suckers are expensive and hard to find.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got a question for you 2.35:1 CH guys using an anamorphic lens.
> 
> 
> My projector (Optoma H-79) is mounted on the bottom of my soffit. It is mounted upside down. The bottom of my soffit is exactly 12" from the top of my 2.35:1 CH screen. So the Optoma lens is about 8" above the top of my screen now. Up to now I have been using a lens shift to project on my screen.
> 
> 
> I got my ISCO lens today and want to know what is the recommended height I should be from the PJs lens to the top of my screen now I got the ISCO? Should I drop my projector down 8" so the PJ lens lines up with the top of my screen without shifting it?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



The lower you can get it without it being distracting, the easier time you will have adjusting. Its not a big deal. Its easy to get anal about this stuff but just throw the stuff where ever you want and it will work fine!


I tried returning the call to help you last night but I was delusional from spending 10 hours on a machine called a Dingo with a brush cutter attachment in 3 acres of poisen oak and briar filled fir trees yesterday, what an arse kicking that beast gave me, and ofcourse I am the only one in the family thats not allergic to Poisen Oak so I was lucky enough to try and make the best of a $150 rental. Then I sat there moaning and groaning while watching the Worlds Fastest Indian, how Ironic.


If you want to go over stuff I will be in at 10:00 am here, gimme a ring


----------



## SVonhof

Hey Mark, what did you think of World's Fastest Indian? I was thinking of getting it and figured since it was not real widely advertized, the DVD would get cheap fast.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...Then I sat there moaning and groaning while watching the Worlds Fastest Indian, how Ironic.



Looks like he didn't like it that much - or maybe he was talking about being sore...







.


Why isn't Cuban (Mr HD) releasing his movies on HD-DVD?


----------



## Mark P

I really enjoyed Worlds Fastest Indian, Hopkins playing Burt Monroe, how can you go wrong, I have friends that run Bonneville yearly and Burts always been a hero to all the folks into land speed records, My friend holds several for Fastest Flatheads and yes I felt as though I rode a bucking bronco for 10 hours and drenched in poisen oak , hence moaning and groaning


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really enjoyed Worlds Fastest Indian, Hopkins playing Burt Monroe, how can you go wrong and yes I felt as though I rode a bucking bronco for 10 hours



I was just calling You, pick up.


----------



## Mark P

try again


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey miltimj, I was just reading that thread and noticed someone posted a picture with a torus screen and I noticed the theater had Genelecs in them, in fact the same ones I was talking about using earlier on in this thread. That was interesting.
> 
> 
> From that thread..



Yes, it digressed into a Torus thread, unfortunately (IMO). Though I absolutely agree that they provide the best for video, they sacrifice too much audio. Either you use a solid screen and you have a big satellite dish with a focus point which results in poor acoustics, or you use an AT screen with treatment behind it, but then you need even more vacuum power to pull the screen tight, and end up with the screen becoming one large filter grabbing dirt particles. I think I'll keep it simple, and go with a horizontally-curved screen at the most.


----------



## Lindahl

Ruben, are you concerned at all about the curved screen warping the image for viewers not perpendicular to it's center? I've read somewhere that this should be a consideraton when choosing a curved screen. I'm curious about a comparison between the severity of this type of distortion, versus the severity of distortion by sticking with a non-curved screen with an anamorphic lens.


If masking can eliminate all visible distortion with a non-curved screen, but curving the screen creates visible distortion for viewers on the side, then it would seem that choosing a curved screen wouldn't necessarily be an optimal choice.


EDIT: Basically wondering if you're trading the viewing experience from other seats for the viewing experience of the center seat.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lindahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, are you concerned at all about the curved screen warping the image for viewers not perpendicular to it's center? I've read somewhere that this should be a consideraton when choosing a curved screen. I'm curious about a comparison between the severity of this type of distortion, versus the severity of distortion by sticking with a non-curved screen with an anamorphic lens.
> 
> 
> If masking can eliminate all visible distortion with a non-curved screen, but curving the screen creates visible distortion for viewers on the side, then it would seem that choosing a curved screen wouldn't necessarily be an optimal choice.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Basically wondering if you're trading the viewing experience from other seats for the viewing experience of the center seat.



I got my ISCO 2 lens up last night so I was able to goof around with it. First off the curved frame I made with the string worked out fine. It flattened out the pincushion 100% at my short throw of 16 feet. Also before the ISCO, the maximum projected width I could get was 10 feet wide at my 16 foot throw distance with The Optoma H-79. Now with the ISCO on I can get like 15 feet wide and probably more










So now I can do my 12 foot wide 2.35:1 screen I wanted to do. I will now be using all the projectors pixels with a Lumagen HDQ scaler and ISCO lens. Plus my SmX audio transparent movie screen has a 1.16 gain which gives me a decently bright picture just about as bright as the Stewart Microperf Studiotek 130. However, a PJ upgrade is on the horizon in the near future (possibly the Optoma HD-81) which will give me a little more lumens to work with.


This Friday I am picking up the bent aluminum to make my final curved screen that will be trimmed out with black fideo velvet. I will post some some pictures of the outcome Friday night.


So far on the distortion, I cant comment on it yet because I have to lower my projector to eliminate the keystone.


Ruben


----------



## Lindahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So far on the distortion, I cant comment on it yet because I have to lower my projector to eliminate the keystone.



Ok, I'll ask my question later then.










Are you going to leave the lens in place permanently? I'd assume so, since you're going with a curved screen.


----------



## dropper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, it digressed into a Torus thread, unfortunately (IMO). Though I absolutely agree that they provide the best for video, they sacrifice too much audio. Either you use a solid screen and you have a big satellite dish with a focus point which results in poor acoustics, or you use an AT screen with treatment behind it, but then you need even more vacuum power to pull the screen tight, and end up with the screen becoming one large filter grabbing dirt particles. I think I'll keep it simple, and go with a horizontally-curved screen at the most.



So you need a fan to keep the screen taught, what about using a screen behind the screen? It would be like a large speaker grill type of mesh, that a spray adhesive could be applied to. For a single curve unit, this would probably be easy to accomplish. A dual curve would be a challenge, but you would maintain the shape and hopefully still be relatively acoustically transparent.


Keith


----------



## SmX

I got a couple PMs and emails from guys asking me what I was using to trim out my SmX screen frame. What I'm using for the screen trim is Black Fidelio Velvet. This stuff Is the blackest of black your going to get in any Velvet, Velour, Duvetyne, Felt, Suede, etc. This material is like a black hole outside in Floridas Bright Sun. I took some pictures of it outdoors on a bright sunny day out here in Florida. To get an idea how much light is hitting it, that is a Dark Purple Feather on the Fidelio velvet that is being washed out by the bright sun.


I ordered my Fidelio Velvet from HERE These are the only people I am aware of that carry it. They did a great packing job and sent me a large complimentary purple feather with the order










The back of the material is a dark black as well, so you can see how well of a job the Fidelio Velvet does rejecting light. I don't know of any projector that is more powerful than the sun.















































These last 2 shots are extreme close ups showing the lint on it.


----------



## jmorris644

What a great multi-purpose device. Fabric roll holder by day and barbeque grill by night.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So you need a fan to keep the screen taught, what about using a screen behind the screen? It would be like a large speaker grill type of mesh, that a spray adhesive could be applied to. For a single curve unit, this would probably be easy to accomplish. A dual curve would be a challenge, but you would maintain the shape and hopefully still be relatively acoustically transparent.
> 
> 
> Keith



For a single curve, there's no need for that.. just stretch across a frame that's curved along a single axis. For a torus, you'd need something solid to apply it to (such as a metal mesh, which is what I'm assuming you're suggesting). My guess is that gluing it to whatever service you've created with that curve will render the AT properties useless.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For a single curve, there's no need for that.. just stretch across a frame that's curved along a single axis. For a torus, you'd need something solid to apply it to (such as a metal mesh, which is what I'm assuming you're suggesting). My guess is that gluing it to whatever service you've created with that curve will render the AT properties useless.



Anyone do any testing to see how acoustically transparent the perforated metal is, such as what Ruben is using for his grilles in his columns?


The problem with the idea of using a metal mesh backing for a torus screen is how do you bend the metal mesh to the shape? I know nobody that can do that, unless there is a fixture and a very large press to form the metal to the shape around that form (mandrel).


----------



## SmX

Aren't torus screens for light uniformity on CRT projectors? I don't think anyone in todays digital age (DLP, LCD, LCOS, etc) is going to need a torus screen to make their picture any better. It may be a coolness factor thing for the digital guys to have a torus screen, but a way bigger PITA to make one than it's worth I would say. Although I may be dead wrong though due to my limited reading on them.


Ruben


----------



## trpltongue

Ruben,


Even today's digital projectors have light uniformity of less than 100%. They are much better than CRT's but still not perfect.


Russell


----------



## miltimj

It's my understanding that the main benefit of a torus is the correct shape to eliminate pincushion, especially with anamorphic lenses.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

The main benefit of Torus is reduction of hot spotting and color shift in high gain screens - something CRT users needed. With the CRT adjustments, pincushion was never an issue and even color shift could be adjusted for in some high end CRTs. Removing pincushion distortion is a side benefit for anamorphic lens use, but certainly not its main benefit.


There were people using Torus screens to get gains greater than 5.0 without hotspotting or color shift in the past. With today's projectors it just isn't an issue. Sure, there are projectors that calibrated properly will not put out much light, but it is still more cost effective to get a flat screen and a better projector if that is the case vs. the expense and hassle of Torus.


----------



## SmX

So back to the sub issue. For those of you that missed my post about my sub issues, I found out the amp on the sub was shot and the sub was shifting in and out of phase. So I sent the Amp plate of the sub out to Velodyne to repair. It cost me $240 to have them repair and update the amp to their new THX specs.


Well anyway I got the amp plate back on Friday and hooked it up to my sub and I get this really extremely loud earthquake rattling ground hum going on with nothing plugged in it except for the power cord. So changed settings on it several times and it did not fix it. So it looks like I have to send it back to Velodyne again. What a PITA.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Float your ground (i.e. use a cheater plug) before you send it back in and see if that solves the problem.


----------



## Soundood

With nothing plugged in but the power cord...that is not a ground loop issue (only happens with a signal line on it). I'd check to make sure the servo sensor is properly connected to the amp before sending it back. Then again, with a theater as good as yours...I'd humbly suggest selling the Velodyne and putting in a Danley DTS-20 for some REAL bass


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With nothing plugged in but the power cord...that is not a ground loop issue (only happens with a signal line on it). I'd check to make sure the servo sensor is properly connected to the amp before sending it back. Then again, with a theater as good as yours...I'd humbly suggest selling the Velodyne and putting in a Danley DTS-20 for some REAL bass



Yeah, I was looking at those Danley's they are quite impressive. As MrPoindextor suggested, I will try a cheater plug and also check the servo sensor as well as you mentioned. If all fails, maybe I will go get 2 of those Danley's.







BPape told me to get those a while back.


Ruben


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I was looking at those Danley's they are quite impressive. As MrPoindextor suggested, I will try a cheater plug and also check the servo sensor as well as you mentioned. If all fails, maybe I will go get 2 of those Danley's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BPape told me top get those a while back.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Check your PM Re: Danley


----------



## SmX

Check your PM too


----------



## GetGray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So back to the sub issue. For those of you that missed my post about my sub issues, I found out the amp on the sub was shot and the sub was shifting in and out of phase. So I sent the Amp plate of the sub out to Velodyne to repair. It cost me $240 to have them repair and update the amp to their new THX specs.
> 
> 
> Well anyway I got the amp plate back on Friday and hooked it up to my sub and I get this really extremely loud earthquake rattling ground hum going on with nothing plugged in it except for the power cord. So changed settings on it several times and it did not fix it. So it looks like I have to send it back to Velodyne again. What a PITA.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I have an HGS-18. It did that or something similar. It was a bad accelerometer on the driver. Whole sub had to go back from TN to CA


----------



## SVonhof

Too bad you are not closer to San Jose like I am. Velodyne is just around the corner and I actually considered working there as a designer one time, since they had a position open. I don't remember why I didn't go for it.


----------



## documentarymaker

Ruben -


How about some new frame pictures?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *documentarymaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben -
> 
> 
> How about some new frame pictures?



They are coming soon. I just got my Samsung Q1 tablet today to use with Cinemar for my theater/home remote automation. I will post some pictures of the Q1 shortly. Hopefully I get the new frame built by Wednesday, the Dazian CCC I got up now is way to dark with my projector and it is straining my eyes trying to read stuff during the Set ups.


Cinemar is real nice software and Mario (the owner) is real cool people. He personally walked me through setting up my system this afternoon, now that is some customer service!










Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

It is not likely a ground loop issue, but once in a great while you can get something going from the neutral and the ground on a three plug unit. Probably an accelerometer, though.


----------



## bmackrell




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are coming soon. I just got my Samsung Q1 tablet today to use with Cinemar for my theater/home remote automation. I will post some pictures of the Q1 shortly. Hopefully I get the new frame built by Wednesday, the Dazian CCC I got up now is way to dark with my projector and it is straining my eyes trying to read stuff during the Set ups.
> 
> 
> Cinemar is real nice software and Mario (the owner) is real cool people. He personally walked me through setting up my system this afternoon, now that is some customer service!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben




Ruben,


What features/issues made you decide to go with Mainlobby (Cinemar) over other control automation software like CQC?


Just Curious,


Billmac


----------



## SmX

Well today I ordered my Danley DTS-20 Sub and my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX surround system for my theater.


The Danley sub is used to reproduce the sound of jet engines so companies can make sound barriors. It does 15hz -10db and 18hz -3db. I'm going to power it with either a Crown XTI or Crown K1-K2. This should be the sub to end all subs (for me anyway)

This system should knock me on my ass










When the stuff arrives I will post some pictures.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


can you please pm me with the price you found on the Danley?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## Frank D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well today I ordered my Danley DTS-20 Sub and my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX surround system for my theater.
> 
> 
> Ruben



The surrounds say:


Wide Dispersion Surround Technology array


Just curious, are they basically dipoles?


Regards

Frank


----------



## FusionRx

I can see it now, the room flexing "Matrix style" after the sub is turned on.


Lets face it, SandmanX is "The One".


----------



## coastalb55

Tell me the new speakers will fit in your beautiful columns without a major overhaul...again.


What now with the Martin Logan setup?


Andy


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I know you are using cinemar as am I, but what did you end up going with for the handheld in the theater?


Joe


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When the stuff arrives I will post some pictures.
> 
> Ruben



Yeh, I've heard that one before... Where are the promised pictures for your finished theater?


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can see it now, the room flexing "Matrix style" after the sub is turned on.
> 
> 
> Lets face it, SandmanX is "The One".




Yeah and the scary part is...he originally thought about getting two from me. I encouraged him to get one and see if 125 db in room at 20hz was...um..."adequate". I can't be responsible when his roof falls down on his head during WOTW


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The surrounds say:
> 
> 
> Wide Dispersion Surround Technology array
> 
> 
> Just curious, are they basically dipoles?
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Frank



Not quite. The WDST surrounds are arrayed with the horns angled so that they essentially make the equivalent of a wide dispersion monopole...only with a 60 degree limited vertical dispersion. That is why we could use them in his back columns and why they work well on the sides as well. Very flexible little buggers!


----------



## laststarfighter

one of the reviews of the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system was to say the least.... impressive.
http://www.hemagazine.com/Product-Re...-the-Horns.asp 

you should have no problems with output with this system...other than maybe too loud!!










sub=125db









you wanted 2 of those subs??


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I know you are using cinemar as am I, but what did you end up going with for the handheld in the theater?
> 
> 
> Joe



This is what I am using, it just came out and everyone over at Cinemar is loving it so far. I like it allot as well. It is the Samsung Q1, trying to get one of these right now is like trying to get an xBox 360 last christmas







Cinemar is writing specific scenes for it and will be selling it pre-loaded with their software.





























Here is a link
http://www.samsung.com/uk/products/m...q1_v000suk.asp 


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> can you please pm me with the price you found on the Danley?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



Talk to Soundood, he really hooked me up big time.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coastalb55* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tell me the new speakers will fit in your beautiful columns without a major overhaul...again.
> 
> 
> What now with the Martin Logan setup?
> 
> 
> Andy



Yes they do, that is why I went with 4 of those for the surrounds, they fit in my columns. The Genelecs weren't going to fit in my columns. 5 pairs of Logans I have are going on eBay/Audiogon.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmackrell* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> What features/issues made you decide to go with Mainlobby (Cinemar) over other control automation software like CQC?
> 
> 
> Just Curious,
> 
> 
> Billmac



The support and the ease of setup is why I like Cinemar. I also like that fact how easy It is to build custom scenes. The CQC I didn't follow to long because of the lack of information on their website.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

For power I am going with 4 Crown XTI 1000 pro amps to power the LCRs and surrounds and a Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley sub. I will be using one channel on the XTI 4000 to power the sub and the second channel will be used in the future for tactiles.


For processing I am doing the Outlaw 990.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is what I am using, it just came out and everyone over at Cinemar is loving it so far. I like it allot as well. It is the Samsung Q1, trying to get one of these right now is like trying to get an xBox 360 last christmas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinemar is writing specific scenes for it and will be selling it pre-loaded with their software.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yes, mario told me about this one too. I had thought the recommendation was to NOT use a screen remote in the theater but use a remote with tactile buttons. Did that thought process change?


I have a viewsonic air panel that, with using terminal services on the server, functions very similarly to how I assume the Q1 fucntions using MLobby. It just uses the server for all of the processing.


I also noticed a little different dvdlobby on your screen. Did you fenagle yourself an early release or something?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, mario told me about this one too. I had thought the recommendation was to NOT use a screen remote in the theater but use a remote with tactile buttons.
> 
> 
> I have a viewsonic air panel that, with using terminal services on the server, functions very similarly to the Q1. It just uses the server for all of the processing.
> 
> 
> I also noticed a little different dvdlobby on your screen. Did you fenagle yourself an early release or something?
> 
> 
> Joe



Yeah I have the latest version. I also have Main Lobby 3. The regular remote works fine if your doing allot of channel changing. I am using this to control allot of stuff In my house. I am going to make custom Flash scenes for it too.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For power I am going with 4 Crown XTI 1000 pro amps to power the LCRs and surrounds and a Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley sub. I will be using one channel on the XTI 4000 to power the sub and the second channel will be used in the future for tactiles.
> 
> 
> For processing I am doing the Outlaw 990.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I own a recording studio. One of my engineers told me that Crown was having a lot of trouble with their amps. I think it was overheating issues if I remember correctly. If you have not bought them yet you might want to check it out.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I own a recording studio. One of my engineers told me that Crown was having a lot of trouble with their amps. I think it was overheating issues if I remember correctly. If you have not bought them yet you might want to check it out.
> 
> 
> Joe



What Crown model? I been hearing lots of good things about the XTI's being used in Home theaters, etc.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What Crown model? I been hearing lots of good things about the XTI's being used in Home theaters, etc.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Hmmm, I bet you are right. I bet they were referring to the pro-audio models. I will see what I can find out.


Joe


----------



## Mark Lem

Ruben

I've been away a while, but last I checked you were contemplating replacing the Martin Logans. Lo and behold, you have, but how did you decide upon the Klipsch system and Crown amp?


Love the thread...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark Lem* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben
> 
> I've been away a while, but last I checked you were contemplating replacing the Martin Logans. Lo and behold, you have, but how did you decide upon the Klipsch system and Crown amp?
> 
> 
> Love the thread...



Just allot of reading reviews and talking to people about what I want. The logan system I always had, so I figured to give it a try and it didn't work out for me. For audio transparency nothing beats Logans IMO but transparency isn't working in my theater for movies. I want my movie experience to smack me in the face and punch me in the gut but yet be incredibly detailed, that's what made me go with the Klipsch Ultra 2 THX.


The reason for the Crown XTI's with the Klipsch is because Soundood thought they would work well with the Klipsch system and maybe he can chime In a little better here about it.


The reasons I went with the Danley for my sub is because it was BPapes first choice for a sub for my room, he actually suggested 2 of them









Soundood also suggested Danley for my room and I have read allot about them.


If I want to listen to good transparent music, I always have a logan system in another room for that. You guys pretty much know by now that I like quality stuff and if the Klipsch system doesn't perform to my expectations, you and e-Bay will be the first to know







.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hmmm, I bet you are right. I bet they were referring to the pro-audio models. I will see what I can find out.
> 
> 
> Joe



I think you are talking about older analog Crown amps.

These XTI amps are digital as far as I know.


----------



## bpape

Hey, you've gone to the extreme with everything else about the room - why not the sub(s)!


----------



## SVonhof

Hey Ruben, the good news is, it sounds like the sub will do the trick for you. Also, if you feel that you need to step it up a little, there is nothing wrong with getting another one and shoving it in there. I assume you are putting it behind the screen? Are you going to have it standing up or laying down?


----------



## Mark Lem

What swayed you to the Outlaw...


----------



## Soundood

Reason for the Crown XTi suggestion (which I am totally comfortable with) is that Ruben wanted a lot of punch and a lot of horsepower for X budget. He does a lot of recording in studio and when you get used to that type of impact, it is going to be hard to live without it (if he were my client from the get go, I would never have recommended the ML's to him knowing his background). When it comes to bang for the bucks, it is really hard to beat pro amps and hard to go wrong with Crown. The new XTi series is pretty impressive, both from features and for sound quality. Each amp has built in Parametric EQ's so Ruben can make some tweaks to each channel if necessary. The XTi 4000 happens to make a KILLER subwoofer amp with high damping factor and over a kilowatt per channel into 4 for just under a grand (the engineer at Danley recommends 1K as the correct power range for the DTS-20...double the RMS). For $499 each, the XTi 1000's at 275/ch are going to be hard to beat. Besides which, that amp is pretty hot and with Crown's rep...he'll have absolutely NO problem selling them if/when he is ready to try something else. Oh...and speaking of hot...my understanding is that the amps that are having some issues are the excessively MASSIVE I-Tech touring beasts. The problems are fleeting and only under absolutely INSANE conditions that would make most home amps go up in flames, leaving a pile of ash and metal shavings on the ground. Of the few thousand XTi's Crown has shipped, they say they have only exchanged a dozen of them...mostly for shipping damage.


My highest recommendation to him was Bryston...but for some reason he just doesn't want to spend 3 x the money right now. I figure I can wait a few months










Oh...and as for twin Danley's...while it sounds like a good idea, that single sub is enough to seriously do structural damage in his room. Though the gargantuan screen







may lead you to think otherwise...Ruben's room isn't actually that large. I'm using one in a new demo theater I'm building that measures 23 x 38 x 10...nearly 3 X the cubic volume of Ruben's space. Having one in his room is like using a thermo nuclear bomb to knock down a small building...two would be just as much overkill and quite frankly he'd start having issues fitting them along with the speakers behind the screen.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you are talking about older analog Crown amps.
> 
> These XTI amps are digital as far as I know.



Actually, the XTi's are analog...but they use a digital switching power supply. That is now the de facto standard in pro amps because it keeps the weight down. When you are a roadie trying to move a case with 10 amps in it...you WANT the weight down!


Oh...and by the way, in case anybody was interested...according to the Crown guys, the XTi amps are made right here in the good ol' US of A


----------



## bpape

When we were originally talking about 2 of the Danley's, we had at one point discussed 1 centered on the front wall and 1 centered on the rear wall. With it's ratings, I'd agree that 1 is probably sufficient.


As I said though, nothing else in the room has been done just to be 'sufficient'










Bryan


----------



## SmX

Also, I realized how inefficient my Martin Logans were for my Theater. The Martin Logan Mains and Center are like 90db @ 1 meter and surrounds are 88 db @ 1 meter. The Klipsch THX's are like 97 - 98 db @ 1 meter all around the room LCR's and Surrounds.


On another note, no one ever told me to do a Martin Logan system in my dedicated theater, everyone I spoke with actually recommended not doing it. But I just moved my existing ML system to the theater to see what results I would get anyway.


I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.


Ruben


----------



## Mark Lem

Thanks Ruben...sounds good! Looking forward to your assessment


----------



## jiujitsu35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I realized how inefficient my Martin Logans were for my Theater. The Martin Logan Mains and Center are like 90db @ 1 meter and surrounds are 88 db @ 1 meter. The Klipsch THX's are like 97 - 98 db @ 1 meter all around the room LCR's and Surrounds.
> 
> 
> On another note, no one ever told me to do a Martin Logan system in my dedicated theater, everyone I spoke with actually recommended not doing it. But I just moved my existing ML system to the theater to see what results I would get anyway.
> 
> 
> I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.



True, but after building and living with the theater for a while now, I realized I really don't listen to music in it, I have a Bose system for that quality musical sound anyway.










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey Mark P, can you send me those SmX Sound Screen audio test results you got done?


I saw you posted about them, but I never got a copy. I tried to call you as well.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey guys I got a question.


I never got a rope light installed in my light tray. I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.


Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys I got a question.
> 
> 
> I never got a rope light installed in my light tray. I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.
> 
> 
> Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Is your tray big enough for 3? One of each color? Then you could put each color on a diffrent zone on your grafik-eye and control them that way.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I went with the Outlaw because I spoke to quite a few people who previously had higher end processors like Lexicon stuff and they switched to Outlaw and said it compared well to their previous high end processors. Plus the Outlaw 990 has the best switching system for my setup without going into 3rd party switching.
> 
> 
> Ruben



The Outlaw just also happens to have dual subwoofer output in 7.1 mode. Hmmm, makes one wonder, huh?










Joe


----------



## mflanagan

Sandman, you might want to do a google search for EL wire. Car customizers have been using it for years. It's a thin Electroluminescent Wire that glows pretty bright similar to neon but not quite that bright. They're fairly thin so I would imagine you could put a lot of different colors in your light tray.


Flan


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think White, Red or Blue light up there may be cool. I held off because I was going to do fiber optics up there so I can change the light to whatever color I wish, but the fiber optic boxes I need dont dim.
> 
> 
> Are there any dimmable rope lights that change color?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



While I just have the standard white, I suggest to one person a few years back that they install red, green and blue rope lights and use a Grafik Eye to change the colors as needed, or even have the room change over a period of two hours (or is the max length of scene change time an hour?). Don't know how well it would work, but if you are using the primary colors(kinda), you may be able to get some nice effects.


----------



## SmX

Mark P just forwarded me the SmX Audio Tests that were done by Kevin Haskins.


I posted the lab results for all the guys who were lucky enough to get the SmX and wanted to see the audio test results.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131 


Ruben


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mflanagan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, you might want to do a google search for EL wire. Car customizers have been using it for years. It's a thin Electroluminescent Wire that glows pretty bright similar to neon but not quite that bright. They're fairly thin so I would imagine you could put a lot of different colors in your light tray.
> 
> 
> Flan



Just be a little careful who you buy EL wire from. A lot of the Chinese imports are pretty horrific in terms of QC and I'd be worried about fire. Also, EL wire doesn't have anywhere near the life span of a lot of rope and certainly not LED rope.


As for dimming LED rope...it can be done but you may need special dimming drivers. If you get regular rope light, you can dim it all day long, but LED is a special case. LED runs cooler and is WAY more efficient, but dimming is the Achilles heel since you don't reduce the voltage to dim them. Instead, you have to modulate the frequency.


I finally gave up and will just have my LED rope (using it for edge markers on my risers) come on soon as my main lights dim down. Since LED rope isn't as bright...you won't really notice when it comes on...you'll just notice it once the lights are all down.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,I know that this a theater room but I can't phantom that the Klipsch would sound better with music.



You might be VERY surprised by the Ultra 2 speakers. I've sold and owned a TON of planars and ESL's over the years and the Ultra 2's are really quite good. They are very smooth, neutral and effortless and are incredible on music with big dynamic swings. Read some of the many reviews, most comment very favorably on the music performance of the Ultra 2 system. For home cinema use...they are flat out scary.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For home cinema use...they are flat out scary.



I can't wait to be scared


----------



## miltimj

I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.


----------



## SVTLoren

Very crafty. I just got through looking in your post. Amazing. I have drive like crazy now to start my HT. GREAT JOB!


----------



## jiujitsu35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.



That is the problem I had with klipsch I found them to be very bright.Ultra 2s might be different from the usaual klipsch sound


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVTLoren* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very crafty. I just got through looking in your post. Amazing. I have drive like crazy now to start my HT. GREAT JOB!



Thanks!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't heard the Ultra 2s (just about everything under them in the Klipsch line, though), but those that I did hear from Klipsch were very bright for my tastes.. I wonder if it was just the configuration, or if the Ultra 2s would be slightly more laid back, or if I just don't like the way horns sound.



Well I will be the first to tell you how they perform when I get them. It will be coming from a guy who owns 5 pairs of Logans, 1 pair or B &W 802d's and a few Genelecs.



Ruben


----------



## SmX

I went to see Superman tonight, I thought it could of been much better. I caught myself falling asleep several times throughout the movie and the ending was pretty lame.


Ruben


----------



## mastiff34

Damn, thats not good. I was hoping it would have been as good as the remake of batman.


Oh well, scatch that off my list of things to see.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn, thats not good. I was hoping it would have been as good as the remake of batman.
> 
> 
> Oh well, scatch that off my list of things to see.



Man, I was hoping the same. Batman Begins pratically got a standing ovation at the end of the movie. Superman had an excited audience before it started but people left quietly at the end. There was no oohs and ahhhs throughout the entire movie.


Ruben


----------



## Big Worms

Batman Begins spoiled us. I now expect every comic book based movie to be like that.


----------



## Ktulu_1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, I was hoping the same. Batman Begins pratically got a standing ovation at the end of the movie. Superman had an excited audience before it started but people left quietly at the end. There was no oohs and ahhhs throughout the entire movie.
> 
> 
> Ruben



That sucks. I was hoping for much more. Batman got some pretty good applause when I saw it at the movies.


----------



## SmX

Need your help guys,


I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.


What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?

Are some brighter than others?

If I double it up will it work better?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## scaesare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Need your help guys,
> 
> 
> I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.
> 
> 
> What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?
> 
> Are some brighter than others?
> 
> If I double it up will it work better?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Got my 150' of ropelight at 1000 Bulbs for less than $75.


Dunno if they have blue though.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Need your help guys,
> 
> 
> I went to Lowes and picked up some rope light and liked the blue ropelight the best for my light trays. The blue rope light illuminates the ceiling nicely and hides the corners unlike the white light. I need about 75 feet of it for my trays.
> 
> 
> What is the best blue Rope Light to get? Home Depot, Lowes, online?
> 
> Are some brighter than others?
> 
> If I double it up will it work better?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


If you want to get the best stuff out there today -- it's LED lights. They will never burn out, run extreemly cool, are very bright and are 110volt. However, you will need to have a special dimmer to dim them -- which I think your GraficEye can handle.


This is a local Dallas company. One other guy that built a HT here in town used their LED products and was very happy. The disadvantage is the cost for these is about 3x the price of standard rope lighting.

LED Rope Light Source


----------



## jmorris644

What happens to these when a single bulb burns out? Are they wired in serial so that they all go out? Or just the one.


Joe


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What happens to these when a single bulb burns out? Are they wired in serial so that they all go out? Or just the one.
> 
> 
> Joe



Joe,


Honestly, I do not know. But my guess is they are run in series so it one did burn out, the rest would continue to work.


----------



## documentarymaker

Ruben -


From the 1000 bulbs website mentioned above -

blue led rope light 


Kevin


Oops - just noticed you only need 75 feet. Since this is for 150 ft roll I guess you could double up and double the intensity..


----------



## SmX

Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light. This is one run of rope, not doubled up yet, I really think its fine on its own.


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light.



TOO cool.....


----------



## jmorris644




SandmanX said:


> Here is a shot with the Loews blue rope light. This is one run of rope, not doubled up yet, I really think its fine on its own.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> 
> It looks great. Why would you look for anything else? Wasn't it cheap enough so that if it burns out you just buy another one?
> 
> 
> Joe


----------



## tshepherd

That looks fantastic Ruben, the blue gives it a nice touch.


----------



## ebr

Yeah - I may be heading down to pick up a blue one now...


----------



## SmX

Thanks guys.


They are $15 for a 24 foot run. You can connect multiple ropes together. I used a Romex wire stapler to secure the rope to the soffit wall (much faster and easier than clips). I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Also forgot to mention, I got my Outlaw 990 Processor and Lumagen Vision HDQ scaler in last week. I'm just waiting on the custom rack shelf for the Outlaw 990 now to install the Outlaw in my rack. I ordered and received rack ears for the Lumagen directly from Lumagen so that is all set.


My 5 crown amps are going to go in another rack right outside my theater on the side wall of my theater rack. They will be covered with a velour curtain.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tshepherd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That looks fantastic Ruben, the blue gives it a nice touch.



Thanks, I also tried the clear rope light from loews but it gave me an unwanted yellowish/orangish light that showed all the corners and seams up in the light tray. The blue rope illuminated nicely without highlighting the corners and seams up there. It also gives you that moonlight effect with the blue rope.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> 
> They are $15 for a 24 foot run. You can connect multiple ropes together. I used a Romex wire stapler to secure the rope to the soffit wall (much faster and easier than clips). I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I ran outlets every 5 feet along the inside of the tray. And on a number of them I split the plugs between 2 grafik-eye zones so I could control the down-lights seperately from the rope lights.


Thanks so much for the pic of the blue rope light. I was planning on white until I saw your pic.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> My 5 crown amps are going to go in another rack right outside my theater on the side wall of my theater rack. They will be covered with a velour curtain.
> 
> 
> Ruben



5 amps gives you 10 channels. What are you going to use all of them for?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 5 amps gives you 10 channels. What are you going to use all of them for?
> 
> 
> Joe



Four Crown XTI 1000 amps for the 7 channels L, C, R, RS, LS, RBS, LBS. One channel of the Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley the other channel for tactiles in the future.


I had a hard time getting them too. Everyone is out of them and Crown won't have them back in stock for another month. I lucked out by calling a company I deal with for other things that had 6 1,000's and 2 4000's in stock that they special ordered for a customer that backed out of the order at the last minute.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Oh, also I posted this earlier but it got lost with the forum backups today.


You guys also have to remember, I am using black GOM on my ceiling and in my light trays. The light doesn't spread as well due to this. However it looks great as you can see. It will spread even better on a painted surface such as a dark blue or possibly black painted ceiling.


This rope works best against light painted colors due to better reflection, thus better spread of light. The black GoM sucks the light up big time.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Four Crown XTI 1000 amps for the 7 channels L, C, R, RS, LS, RBS, LBS. One channel of the Crown XTI 4000 for the Danley the other channel for tactiles in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



That leaves one spare. Without looking I would guess the Danley takes 2 though, doesn't it?


Joe


----------



## miltimj

It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.


----------



## madepar

Ruben, the blue rope light looks fantastic! I wouldn't want it any other way. The way it fades to black is unbelievable! When you mentioned using ML's for your speakers I knew you were going to have problems with powering them. Are you sure you have enough power for all the Crown amps and the rest of your equipment?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Ruben, That blue ropelight is AWSOME!!!! Thats the coolest damn thing I have seen in a while. I have often wondered about the different colors of rope lights and thier effects, but never seen them in action. I have a feeling there will be a lot more blue going in after this.



Can you give me a little info on the settings you used to take that pic? Im assuming its a digital camera. Any Photoshop wizardry in there?


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *madepar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, the blue rope light looks fantastic! I wouldn't want it any other way. The way it fades to black is unbelievable! When you mentioned using ML's for your speakers I knew you were going to have problems with powering them. Are you sure you have enough power for all the Crown amps and the rest of your equipment?



Plenty of power. The Klipschs handle 150 watts RMS continuous / 600 peak (8 ohms)and the Crowns XTI-1000's do 275 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms.


The Crown XTI-4000 does 650 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms. Danley recommends an amp that does 500w continuous. I was told not to bridge it due to dampening factors.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, That blue ropelight is AWSOME!!!! Thats the coolest damn thing I have seen in a while. I have often wondered about the different colors of rope lights and thier effects, but never seen them in action. I have a feeling there will be a lot more blue going in after this.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you give me a little info on the settings you used to take that pic? Im assuming its a digital camera. Any Photoshop wizardry in there?
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Thanks Ronnie! I was really impressed how it turned out. I honestly thought the rope light was going to suck until i got it up there and saw it in action. I was going to do fiber optics instead, but they dont have dimmers for the light box I needed. All & all, it worked out really good.


I was previously using a Sony DSC-707 Cybershot (5 Megapixels) to document my theater construction. It is a pretty simple camera with not much settings to capture night shots and no changable lens. I originally paid $1k for it a few years ago. My friend recently dropped it and broke the flash on it so I said it was time to get a new camera. This is what the sony looked like.











So a friend of mine is a pro photographer and I asked him what was his main favorite digital camera. I used him for some photo shoots and almost every picture he takes out of 500 or so pictures is always crispy clear. So I found out he uses the Canon Rebel XT EOS 8 megapixel digital camera as his main digital camera. It has all the bells and whistles plus interchangable lens's just like a professional SLR film camera. So I searched on eBay and found one brand new with an 18 - 55mm zoom lens and 1 gig smart card, wide angle lens adapter and a bunch of other extra stuff for $750.00. Here is a picture of it...











The Canon Rebel XT takes incredibly clear pictures. It has night time presets and other presets to get the best pictures. So that rope light picture was one of the first night time shots I took with it. You have to put the camera on a stand so it can capture the picture like that. I used the Twi-Light setting on it and the shutter stays open for about 10 seconds. If your slightly moving the camera around in that setting, the picture comes out blurry. That's why a stand is needed. Also, that picture is with no flash and only the lights in the theater on low and the rope on high. I also had the wide angle lens attachment on it for that shot.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.



Yeah, it was recommended not to bridge the amp with the Danley due to dampening reasons. However, bridging that XTI 4000 gives you 2400W RMS into 8 ohms. I can always give it a try and see how I like it.


Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ronnie! I was really impressed how it turned out. I honestly thought the rope light was going to suck until i got it up there and saw it in action. I was going to do fiber optics instead, but they dont have dimmers for the light box I needed. All & all, it worked out really good.
> 
> 
> I was previously using a Sony DSC-707 Cybershot (5 Megapixels) to document my theater construction. It is a pretty simple camera with not much settings to capture night shots and no changable lens. I originally paid $1k for it a few years ago. My friend recently dropped it and broke the flash on it so I said it was time to get a new camera. This is what the sony looked like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So a friend of mine is a pro photographer and I asked him what was his main favorite digital camera. I used him for some photo shoots and almost every picture he takes out of 500 or so pictures is always crispy clear. So I found out he uses the Canon Rebel XT EOS 8 megapixel digital camera as his main digital camera. It has all the bells and whistles plus interchangable lens's just like a professional SLR film camera. So I searched on eBay and found one brand new with an 18 - 55mm zoom lens and 1 gig smart card, wide angle lens adapter and a bunch of other extra stuff for $750.00. Here is a picture of it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Canon Rebel XT takes incredibly clear pictures. It has night time presets and other presets to get the best pictures. So that rope light picture was one of the first night time shots I took with it. You have to put the camera on a stand so it can capture the picture like that. I used the Twi-Light setting on it and the shutter stays open for about 30 seconds. If your slightly moving the camera around in that setting, the picture comes out blurry. That's why a stand is needed. Also, that picture is with no flash and only the lights in the theater on low and the rope on high. I also had the wide angle lens attachment on it for that shot.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Thanks SandmanX. I am very familiar with the digital Rebel cameras. I agree they are nice. Inexpensive also.


I have a nice Olympus fixed lens (C3030), but plan to upgrade to the DSLR soon. The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.


I was really interested in the aperature settings, etc that you used. I guess since you used one of the automatic settings for twilight, you probably didnt take note of the exact settings. I use to do a lot of photography with a standard slr and found that 1 second at f4.5 using 100 speed film yeilded excellent nighttime pictures of christmas lights, street lights, etc. Of course anything under about 1/60 sec and you definately need a tripod.


I am glad you like the Rebel. There are tons of accesories for it. You should check out the battery pack that fits it like a motor drive. Its an excellent upgrade.


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks SandmanX. I am very familiar with the digital Rebel cameras. I agree they are nice. Inexpensive also.
> 
> 
> I have a nice Olympus fixed lens (C3030), but plan to upgrade to the DSLR soon. The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.
> 
> 
> I was really interested in the aperature settings, etc that you used. I guess since you used one of the automatic settings for twilight, you probably didnt take note of the exact settings. I use to do a lot of photography with a standard slr and found that 1 second at f4.5 using 100 speed film yeilded excellent nighttime pictures of christmas lights, street lights, etc. Of course anything under about 1/60 sec and you definately need a tripod.
> 
> 
> I am glad you like the Rebel. There are tons of accesories for it. You should check out the battery pack that fits it like a motor drive. Its an excellent upgrade.
> 
> 
> Ronnie



I opened up the photo in one of the Canon's photo utilities to get the info on the picture. Here you go...


Tv (Shutter Speed) 10 Seconds

Av (Aperture Value) F3.5

Metering Mode - Evaluative metering

Exposure Compensation - 0

ISO Speed 400

White Balance - Auto

AF mode - AI focus AF

Focal Length - 18.0mm

Image Size - 1728 x 1152

Image Quality - Fine

Contrast - 1

Sharpness - 1

Color Saturation - 1

Color Space - sRGB


Hope that helps


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Rebel is one of my choices. I am also looking at the Nikon and Minolta, but they cost a little more.



The real nice thing about the Rebel XT vs my previous camera is you don't miss that Kodak moment. That sony 707 use to take 3 - 4 seconds to take a picture and 10 seconds in between pictures when using a flash. This Rebel XT takes pictures like a machine gun. Even super fast with the flash too. You can hold your finger on the button and snap 3 - 4 shots per second. That comes in real handy at certain times.


Also, my friend shoots allot of top celeb chicks in his studio. He is Jenna Jamesons personal camera man and shoots Carman Electra and a bunch of other chicks as well. He says that all the pro's he knows use the Rebel XT for digital. He also has $2,000 lens's for his Rebel XT. I'm actually going to borrow his CANON EF 14mm f2.8L ultra-wideangle lens. I was gonna buy one but they are $1,800 new and I don't take that many pictures to justify spending that on a piece of glass










Ruben


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It only takes one channel, but if I were Ruben, I'd bridge two-channels until he gets tactiles.



In talking to the chief engineer at Danley, they recommend not bridging since you half the damping when you do that. They recommend more control vs more horsepower. Their highest recommendation was the Crown I-Tech I-T4000 which is 1250/ch into 8 with a damping factor of >5000...but that puppy isn't cheap. The XTi should work really well with the DTS20 since with the load the sub presents, Ruben should be looking at somewhere close to a kilowatt out of one channel...about right power wise (double RMS). He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it. His sub should be there this coming week so everbody should expect pictures







.


----------



## sk8conz

Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....


Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.


I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.


Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He is Jenna Jamesons personal camera man
> 
> Ruben



That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it.



Don't forget, Ruben is looking for the EMT effect from his sub










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....
> 
> 
> Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.
> 
> 
> I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.
> 
> 
> Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.



I think that is going to depend on where you can put the light can(s). I believe that Ruben used 2 cans and put them in the front columns. That wouldn't work for me, I had to put mine behind the screen up in the corner.


The company that Ruben purchased from also has a new cable that I don't think was available then. It has different sizes of fibers already build in it so you can make larger stars without having to use multiple fibers.


I think the big part of the cable length calulcation is the number of stars you need and how that divides into the fibers available in the cable. for example, if you need 1 star more than the fibers available you just doubled the length of one of the length of cable you need.


Joe


----------



## ebr

Wow, 10 second exposure - that's the ticket. My old Olympus E-10 DSLR is a great camera but it was one of the first and doesn't have that range of exposure settings. I've had my hand poised to buy one of those Cannon's several times. This may just do it...


----------



## danskim

Wow, looks great.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In talking to the chief engineer at Danley, they recommend not bridging since you half the damping when you do that. They recommend more control vs more horsepower. Their highest recommendation was the Crown I-Tech I-T4000 which is 1250/ch into 8 with a damping factor of >5000...but that puppy isn't cheap. The XTi should work really well with the DTS20 since with the load the sub presents, Ruben should be looking at somewhere close to a kilowatt out of one channel...about right power wise (double RMS). He should be able to hit 120 db+ at 20 hz without clipping, assuming his room will handle it. His sub should be there this coming week so everbody should expect pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I just got confirmation that my Danley sub will be delivered this Wednesday.

Pictures will be coming soon.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kind of OT a little, since it's a good 60 pages back since the star ceiling was done , but ....
> 
> 
> Can you recall how many feet of fibre cable you used.
> 
> 
> I do recall that you bought too much and sold off the surplus.
> 
> 
> Just curious, as I have a room roughly the same size, and want to check my math.



I think I ended up using 175 feet of the EG-50 fiber cable. The light boxes were In the top of my columns (which I recommend against doing). They are hot noisy boxes and I had to modify them to make them quiet and cool. You should consider installing them outside your theater room in a place they can breath.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.
> 
> 
> Joe



You probably did


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, 10 second exposure - that's the ticket. My old Olympus E-10 DSLR is a great camera but it was one of the first and doesn't have that range of exposure settings. I've had my hand poised to buy one of those Cannon's several times. This may just do it...



Yes the Rebel XT is a nice piece of equipment to own. I love it and to me it was worth every penny. The only other thing I would ask for is an optional LCD viewfinder like my Sony had. That was quite convenient not having to put your eye up to the viewfinder all the time.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danskim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, looks great.




Thanks.


----------



## SmX

I have to catch up to Bud on the replies. So I guess I need to reply to everyones post like he does for now on to catch up!!
























Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Thanks for the exposure info on the pic Ruben. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Thats an amazing pic for an automatic setting. I would think you would normally have to go to manual mode to get that kind of shot. I know I do with my current digital camera.


Ronnie


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to catch up to Bud on the replies. So I guess I need to reply to everyones post like he does for now on to catch up!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I heard that! There's one freebie post! I only said that to see if you were still watching!


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I heard that! There's one freebie post! I only said that to see if you were still watching!
> 
> 
> Bud



I'm always watching, you can be sure of that!


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I mounted the rope light half way up the soffit wall inside the tray for the fullest shadowless illumination and to keep the rope away from the hot light cans in the soffits.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


How high is your soffit wall (from ceiling gom to bottom inside of tray), and how high is the light tray wall.


Thanks


Joe


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think that is going to depend on where you can put the light can(s). I believe that Ruben used 2 cans and put them in the front columns. That wouldn't work for me, I had to put mine behind the screen up in the corner.
> 
> 
> The company that Ruben purchased from also has a new cable that I don't think was available then. It has different sizes of fibers already build in it so you can make larger stars without having to use multiple fibers.
> 
> 
> I think the big part of the cable length calulcation is the number of stars you need and how that divides into the fibers available in the cable. for example, if you need 1 star more than the fibers available you just doubled the length of one of the length of cable you need.
> 
> 
> Joe




Thanks for that.


I think I will also use two light engines, as the number of fibres I need to run is more than the one engine will hold.


I was thinking of going with the Starpak cable, and making my panel size so that one bundle of 48 pretty much covers one panel. It should keep things a little easier for the fibre runs. If I need an extra fibre or two for a panel I figureed I would just open up one of the bundles of 48 and take what I needed.


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I ended up using 175 feet of the EG-50 fiber cable. The light boxes were In the top of my columns (which I recommend against doing). They are hot noisy boxes and I had to modify them to make them quiet and cool. You should consider installing them outside your theater room in a place they can breath.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Thanks Ruben. My calculations had me at about 190 feet, so I guess I'm not too far off.


Luckily I have access the ceiling space above the HT room so I plan on putting the light boxes up in the ceiling space.


----------



## jiujitsu35

Sandman the lights look great ,I was about to get the white rope lights but I just might have to change my plan.I have the 075 seats and I'm about to build the riser and noticed that I have to make the riser 7 ft deep.I just want to know what size your riser is and do you get full extension on them if it's less than 7ft..I'm used to reading about risers being 6 ft. Last,I was looking into the outlaw 990 and wanted to know if you compared it to anything else.


----------



## SmX





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How high is your soffit wall (from ceiling gom to bottom inside of tray), and how high is the light tray wall.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



The Soffit wall is roughly 10" tall inside dimensions and the light tray wall is 5" tall. To build the soffit walls I started with pre-cut 12" x 96" MDF from Home Depot.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for that.
> 
> 
> I think I will also use two light engines, as the number of fibres I need to run is more than the one engine will hold.
> 
> 
> I was thinking of going with the Starpak cable, and making my panel size so that one bundle of 48 pretty much covers one panel. It should keep things a little easier for the fibre runs. If I need an extra fibre or two for a panel I figureed I would just open up one of the bundles of 48 and take what I needed.



Two light boxes is a must unless you are going with one big light box. I used 2 light boxes because it broke up the simmering of the stars better. The twinkle is caused by a spinning wheel with multiple holes inside the light box. I have 12 fiberoptic light panels on my ceiling and 6 of them go to each light box.


The starpak cable looks cool. How much is it per foot? The stuff I got was $4.35 a foot. To make stars brighter and darker, I just adjusted how much fiber was exposed.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman the lights look great ,I was about to get the white rope lights but I just might have to change my plan.I have the 075 seats and I'm about to build the riser and noticed that I have to make the riser 7 ft deep.I just want to know what size your riser is and do you get full extension on them if it's less than 7ft..I'm used to reading about risers being 6 ft. Last,I was looking into the outlaw 990 and wanted to know if you compared it to anything else.



Thanks.


My risers are 7 feet deep.


The Outlaw 990 is still sealed in the box, I haven't even opened it. I am waiting for my custom rack shelf for it to arrive before I rack it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ruben. My calculations had me at about 190 feet, so I guess I'm not too far off.
> 
> 
> Luckily I have access the ceiling space above the HT room so I plan on putting the light boxes up in the ceiling space.



I originally ordered 300 feet of fiber cable and ended selling the left over 131 feet of it. So that's how I got 170 feet as what I used. I also used 8 strand fiber for my shooting stars.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's a coincedence. I am fairly confident we did some 3D lenticular of Jenna. (I own a UV printing company.) I bet we used his photos as the source material.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yeah, I was just with her a few weeks ago helping her out at her booth at Exxxotica in Miami. She has a real real lot of fans







. I have a bunch of pictures from that day but they are not family orientated







Here are a few that are ok for the family from inside her booth...


Here is Jenna signing autographs...











The guy on the left with the expensive gold watch is Jennas husband Jay.











Here is a friend of mine with a couple Club Jenna chicks...




















Club Jenna give aways...











Best shot here, this is when everyone found out SandmanX was in the building, they were all taking my picture LOL...











Ruben


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Oh MY!!!!!!


Maybe you can throw up the other pics somewhere for us










Ronnie


----------



## SmX

Happy 4th everyone.


Ruben


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Two light boxes is a must unless you are going with one big light box. I used 2 light boxes because it broke up the simmering of the stars better. The twinkle is caused by a spinning wheel with multiple holes inside the light box. I have 12 fiberoptic light panels on my ceiling and 6 of them go to each light box.
> 
> 
> The starpak cable looks cool. How much is it per foot? The stuff I got was $4.35 a foot. To make stars brighter and darker, I just adjusted how much fiber was exposed.
> 
> 
> Ruben



The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.


For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.


Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?


And finally







I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.
> 
> 
> For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.
> 
> 
> Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?
> 
> 
> And finally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?



I am glad you asked about the shooting star. I thought that the price was way too high for their shooting star ight source and found hese folks LED Kits I was looking at the FK151 or the FK157. (I had forgot about the research until now.)


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Starpak which has 32 X .75mm, 10 X .5mm and 6 X 1.5mm fibres all jacketed together is only $3.10 a foot. Kind of strange, as it seems like it should cost more.
> 
> 
> For the shooting star/fireworks module they sell, it looks like you could run 3 or more stars off the same unit. Did you only do one star ? - How long was the path from start to finish.
> 
> 
> Does it look good, and add to the "wow" factor, or would you not bother if you did things over ?
> 
> 
> And finally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume you drive the light boxes from the graphic eye ? Do you have them assigned as a simple on/off zone, or do you let the GE fade them in and out ?



Yeah, maybe the spot I got it from is over charging? Maybe prices dropped? I set up 7 random shooting stars. They range from 24" long to 72" long. I tested one out and it looks real cool. I still have to order my LED shooting star controllers, I will get around to it shortly. It really does add a WOW factor to the ceiling, especially when it's random shooting stars that run at random times.


My light boxes were modified, my friend did something to them so they run quiet and are dimmable with the Grafik Eye. You really need to dim them during a movie because 600 stars on full blast light up the room on their own. So I dim them down during movies. I can't tell you what mods my friend did, I have no clue, the guy dissapeared on me.



Ruben


----------



## SmX

The Danley Sub arrives today (Wednesday).

I will be posting some pictures of it after it arrives.


Ruben


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, maybe the spot I got it from is over charging? Maybe prices dropped? I set up 7 random shooting stars. They range from 24" long to 72" long. I tested one out and it looks real cool. I still have to order my LED shooting star controllers, I will get around to it shortly. It really does add a WOW factor to the ceiling, especially when it's random shooting stars that run at random times.
> 
> 
> My light boxes were modified, my friend did something to them so they run quiet and are dimmable with the Grafik Eye. You really need to dim them during a movie because 600 stars on full blast light up the room on their own. So I dim them down during movies. I can't tell you what mods my friend did, I have no clue, the guy dissapeared on me.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



1) Where did you get your stuff from - Fiberoptic Products ?


2) When you dim the light boxes, does the twinkle speed slow down ? Or do you turn off the twinkle before dimming ? I suspect the mod your buddy did would have been to dim only the light. Dimming (reducing) the voltage to the whole unit would also cause the rotating wheel to slow down.


----------



## sk8conz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am glad you asked about the shooting star. I thought that the price was way too high for their shooting star ight source and found hese folks LED Kits I was looking at the FK151 or the FK157. (I had forgot about the research until now.)
> 
> 
> Joe




The FK151 looks like it has possibilities. The shooting star kit at fibreoptic products seems way overpriced for what it is.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sk8conz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dimming (reducing) the voltage to the whole unit would also cause the rotating wheel to slow down.



I bet you are right. I will have todo that mod too.


Joe


----------



## SmX

My Danley sub arrived this morning. It's a pretty huge sub. It's 18" x 20" x 88" tall. It was poorly packed with some lose cardboard and empty boxes and a few pieces of foam around on the bottom as a buffer on 2 pallets. Danley said the crate and sub would weigh 400 and something pounds but the cardboard totaled up maybe 20lbs all together. The sub weighs 206 lbs. It has some scuffs and scratches due to delivery but I guess that is how they come due to the packing job.


The guy in the picture below is 5'-8" tall. My amps arrive tomorrow and I am still waiting on a delivery date for my Klipsch Ultra 2 THX system.


Here are some pictures...





























Ruben


----------



## documentarymaker

Jesus that thing is big!


Did I miss it or have you not posted pictures of your 2nd and final curved screen? I'm anxious to see how that resolved....



Kevin -


----------



## ebr

Holy sh!t.


[uhhh...when did you start the slaughterhouse business...?]


----------



## jmorris644

One wonders, Packed like crap, delivered on a meat packing truck, and no serial number.


Are you sure this things for real?










Joe


----------



## Satmeister

This is the point where Shrek usually would make a comment about compensating for something, but I won't say it.

















Your innards will be a rattlin' with that there contraption.


----------



## BasementBob

You know if you stand inside of the subwoofer box, there will be very little room modal influence. Not every subwoofer box is large enough to stand inside of. This is a feature.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know if you stand inside of the subwoofer box, there will be very little room modal influence. Not every subwoofer box is large enough to stand inside of. This is a feature.



ROFL, That is absolutely hilarious!!










Joe


----------



## bpape




Bryan


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0



What kind of business do you run? What a variation of pictures in the last few days!


----------



## Tjalfe

I suspect this picture may reveal more about the nature of his business .. but it is just a guess ...


----------



## sk8conz

For those of you looking for a lower cost option to do shooting stars here a couple of options:-

http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/talking...y%20Index.html 


This is a PIC micro based project, that can be programmed to do whatever you want.


Or, my personal favourite :-

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...htm#4017-2.gif 


See the 16 stage expandable LED Chaser about half way down the page.


It uses off the shelf components, needs no programming and only a small amount of electronics knowledge to construct.


Component cost is unlikely to run much more than $10 !!! Plus you can daisy chain as many of these together as you want for longer shooting stars.


Combine this with another circuit to switch it on at a timed interval of say 2-5 minutes and bingo !!!


----------



## SmX

Ok, so today I picked up all my materials needed to build my final curved SmX AT screen.


These are the moldings I will be wrapping with the black velvet to trim out my screen.











These are the channel supports used to support the screen from bowing. They go on the back of the frame every 3rd.











This is a close up of the 1/8" wall aluminum. 48 feet (3 - 16 footers) of this cost me close to $300.00 for the aluminum only.











Those 2 shorter aluminum pieces are for the verticle sides.











Here is a shot of everything that will be used for the screen (not including the SmX material and Black Velvet).











Here is the 2" velcro with the special adhesive for the SMX material.

That is 2 25 yard rolls. 1 Roll is the hook the other roll is the loop.











Here is a close up shot of the Velcro.











I will post some pictures of the completed frame tonight.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Holy sh!t.
> 
> 
> [uhhh...when did you start the slaughterhouse business...?]



You must be saying that because of the guy with the dirty apron









He is actually a faux painter from Brazil that is painting my house.


Here is a wall he has done so far...





























Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You must be saying that because of the guy with the dirty apron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is actually a faux painter from Brazil that is painting my house.
> 
> 
> Here is a wall he has done so far...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I think the embedded pattern is cool. Help me understand the artistic concept.


Joe


----------



## ebr

Ahhh...faux painting. Guy looked like he just got through slaughtering a cow







.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the embedded pattern is cool. Help me understand the artistic concept.
> 
> 
> Joe



These guys usually get about $125.00 a square yard out here in Fl to do this. You can easily spend over $100k doing your whole home like this. This guy was one of the screen builders that originally came to my house to help create an aluminum frame for the SmX. I later found out he was a faux painter and needed work. I went to his brothers house and saw the amazing work he does with plaster and paint. He does anodized copper walls that are so real you can stand 2" from them and swear it's real. He also does stone looking walls and other crazy faux work.


The process is a combination of plaster art, screens, stencils, paint and glaze. There is a few steps to achieve that. Most people that do faux walls only do the paint part and not the plaster due to the expense. They also sell faux wallpaper where they take a picture of a wall like this and make wallpaper to put on a smooth wall.


The guy has only used about a quart to a half gallon of paint to paint 1500 square feet of my house so far. When I went to buy supplies with him, I thought he was crazy only buying 1 gallon of paint to paint my whole house. We did also get a few gallons of glaze too. So it's not the materials you spend all the money on, it's the artist doing the job.


I originally was only looking to hire him to paint my walls a flat color with basic paints. However, he was willing to do the full faux painting for the same price.


So I worked a great deal out with him and told him I would give him a few bucks and make a professional DVD of his work and processes to take back to Brazil with him so he can give to designers out there and get work. At heart he really loves to do this.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What kind of business do you run? What a variation of pictures in the last few days!



A slaughter house business







LOL


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> These guys usually get about $125.00 a square yard out here in Fl to do this. You can easily spend over $100k doing your whole home like this. This guy was one of the screen builders that originally came to my house to help create an aluminum frame for the SmX. I later found out he was a faux painter and needed work. I went to his brothers house and saw the amazing work he does with plaster and paint. He does anodized copper walls that are so real you can stand 2" from them and swear it's real. He also does stone looking walls and other crazy faux work.
> 
> 
> The process is a combination of plaster art, screens, stencils, paint and glaze. There is a few steps to achieve that. Most people that do faux walls only do the paint part and not the plaster due to the expense. They also sell faux wallpaper where they take a picture of a wall like this and make wallpaper to put on a smooth wall.
> 
> 
> The guy has only used about a quart to a half gallon of paint to paint 1500 square feet of my house so far. When I went to buy supplies with him, I thought he was crazy only buying 1 gallon of paint to paint my whole house. We did also get a few gallons of glaze too. So it's not the materials you spend all the money on, it's the artist doing the job.
> 
> 
> I originally was only looking to hire him to paint my walls a flat color with basic paints. However, he was willing to do the full faux painting for the same price.
> 
> 
> So I worked a great deal out with him and told him I would give him a few bucks and make a professional DVD of his work and processes to take back to Brazil with him so he can give to designers out there and get work. At heart he really loves to do this.
> 
> 
> Ruben



That's amazing. And you are right, we had our kitchen faux painted and there was no plaster work done. And you are getting it done for the price of a normal paint job? You are quite the deal maker.










Joe


----------



## SmX

I finished assembling my curved 2.35:1 screen frame last night. I was going to finish the screen today but it's been raining on and off all day. Here are some pictures so far...


Here is the whole frame, you can see the curve on it.











Here are the corner supports I used to hold the frame together.











Here is a close up of the supports for the back of the frame.











The front of the frame will get 2" wide velcro then the SmX goes on the front and then it gets trimmed out with the black velvet tirm.


Ruben


----------



## Frank D

That is one sexy screen!


Nice curves.


I suppose that is the 1/8th inch thick aluminum that you used to get that smooth curve?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Frank D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is one sexy screen!
> 
> 
> Nice curves.
> 
> 
> I suppose that is the 1/8th inch thick aluminum that you used to get that smooth curve?



Yes, it's the 1/8" wall. That will be my final frame for a while.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, it's the 1/8" wall. That will be my final frame for a while.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Key words being "for a while"... Until you can think of something better, right Ruben?


----------



## SmX

The Crown XTI amps came in today. They are very light. In fact, I think all five of them together weigh the same as the monster power conditioner on top of them. The amps have built in DSP on them which is a really nice feature to have.


I had them running with some music for a few hours and they never got hot and the fans never turned on. I had them hooked up to some Kenwood speakers just to test. From what I see so far, they seem to be quite good.


Only thing I'm waiting on now is my Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system to arrive.


Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).


So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...

3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes

1 Zenith HD Sat box

1 xBox 360 (Silver)

5 Crown Amps


So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...

1 HTPC racked

1 Outlaw 990

1 Lumugen Vision HDQ

1 Monster Power 7000

1 Monster Power 2000


Here are some pictures...







































Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Key words being "for a while"... Until you can think of something better, right Ruben?



I hope so


----------



## kromkamp

Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?


Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?


Thanks!


Andy K.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).
> 
> 
> So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...
> 
> 3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes
> 
> 1 Zenith HD Sat box
> 
> 1 xBox 360 (Silver)
> 
> 5 Crown Amps
> 
> 
> So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...
> 
> 1 HTPC racked
> 
> 1 Outlaw 990
> 
> 1 Lumugen Vision HDQ
> 
> 1 Monster Power 7000
> 
> 1 Monster Power 2000
> 
> 
> Ruben



I hate that. As one of the few AVS'ers who has the equipment below the screen because I wanted it there, I don't want anything that is silver and for some reason, it seems that there are too many things that are only in silver these days. I will need to replace my Kenwood DVD player since it keeps getting an error, but I don't want a silver DVD player. Are the DirecTV MPEG-4 HD-DVR's silver or black? If they are black, I better hurry and get one before that goes lighter too.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kromkamp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?
> 
> 
> Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Andy K.



They haven't kicked on yet for me to tell you. They only come on when you are making the amps work really hard I guess. I was playing music at pretty good levels last night for a few hours and the fans didn't turn on.


Also, the fans are swappable, meaning you can put quiet ballbearing computer fans in them. Each amp has only one fan.


I'm going to be putting all my amps outside my theater room anyway, so fan noise doesn't matter in my case.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hate that. As one of the few AVS'ers who has the equipment below the screen because I wanted it there, I don't want anything that is silver and for some reason, it seems that there are too many things that are only in silver these days. I will need to replace my Kenwood DVD player since it keeps getting an error, but I don't want a silver DVD player. Are the DirecTV MPEG-4 HD-DVR's silver or black? If they are black, I better hurry and get one before that goes lighter too.



All the Directv HDR's are silver. I forgot to add that to the Silver list above.


All the equipment below the screen would distract the crap out of me. Power lights, LCD screens and reflections. The power light on my HTPC lights up the whole theater, I had to put a couple layers of tape on it until I pull it out the rack and disconnect it.


I have a mint Black Pioneer Elite 59av DVD player I'm going to put up for sale soon, you may be interested. I even have a custom rack shelf for it.


Ruben


----------



## kromkamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They haven't kicked on yet for me to tell you. They only come on when you are making the amps work really hard I guess. I was playing music at pretty good levels last night for a few hours and the fans didn't turn on.
> 
> 
> Also, the fans are swappable, meaning you can put quiet ballbearing computer fans in them. Each amp has only one fan.
> 
> 
> I'm going to be putting all my amps outside my theater room anyway, so fan noise doesn't matter in my case.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Thats really good to hear, Ruben. Thanks.


Have you had a chance to play with the DSP software yet? Do the amps come with the 'System Architect' software or is that an extra cost ?


Andy K.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kromkamp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thats really good to hear, Ruben. Thanks.
> 
> 
> Have you had a chance to play with the DSP software yet? Do the amps come with the 'System Architect' software or is that an extra cost ?
> 
> 
> Andy K.



Not yet. The amps have a built in USB port that uses HiQnet.


Off the HiQnet Site...


The Crown XTi series of amplifiers will be supported within System Architect as of July 2006.


I'm downloading the full version of System Architect from the HiQnet site now.


Ruben


----------



## kromkamp

Cool. The website is a little misleading - it describes the availability of 4 "Paragraphic" equalizers. I'm wondering if this means parametric, or graphic, or both. I would assume both but they may have crippled the DSP in these amps (vs. the higher priced I-Tech series)


Andy K.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kromkamp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool. The website is a little misleading - it describes the availability of 4 "Paragraphic" equalizers. I'm wondering if this means parametric, or graphic, or both. I would assume both but they may have crippled the DSP in these amps (vs. the higher priced I-Tech series)
> 
> 
> Andy K.



Great tech support over at Crown, I emailed them twice and they emailed me answers right back immediately.


Here is thier answer about the Paragraphic EQ on the XTi


"Hello Ruben-


It is a parametric EQ, but we do not display the Q, so that is why it is

considered a paragraphic. You can easily adjust the gain and center

frequency. I have attached a picture that will probably help."


----------



## superflysocal

i tried searching the thread for this to see if you have mentioned this but couldn't find anything:


You mentioned that the illuminator for the starfield ceiling is dimmable. Does that mean it si dimmable using a dimmer at the switch or with an x10 switch? Or is it dimmable on the unit itself?


One would think dimming it with a switch would affect the rate of twinkle as well or may disable the twinkle ability of the unit.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superflysocal* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i tried searching the thread for this to see if you have mentioned this but couldn't find anything:
> 
> 
> You mentioned that the illuminator for the starfield ceiling is dimmable. Does that mean it si dimmable using a dimmer at the switch or with an x10 switch? Or is it dimmable on the unit itself?
> 
> 
> One would think dimming it with a switch would affect the rate of twinkle as well or may disable the twinkle ability of the unit.



My light box's were modified. The more you dim the lights, the slower the stars twinkle. To be honest with you, the slow twinkle looks the best and realest IMO. The regular speed twinkle looks a little disco-ish to me.


My Lutron Graphik Eye is what I use to dim them.


Ruben


----------



## kromkamp

Thanks Ruben. Which AE did you email over at Crown?


Andy K.


----------



## jiujitsu35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Crown XTI amps came in today. They are very light. In fact, I think all five of them together weigh the same as the monster power conditioner on top of them. The amps have built in DSP on them which is a really nice feature to have.
> 
> 
> I had them running with some music for a few hours and they never got hot and the fans never turned on. I had them hooked up to some Kenwood speakers just to test. From what I see so far, they seem to be quite good.
> 
> 
> Only thing I'm waiting on now is my Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system to arrive.
> 
> 
> Also, it seems like everything I'm getting is silver (not by choice).
> 
> 
> So far in silver I have the following 10 pieces...
> 
> 3 Sony DVD Jukeboxes
> 
> 1 Zenith HD Sat box
> 
> 1 xBox 360 (Silver)
> 
> 5 Crown Amps
> 
> 
> So Far In black I have the following 5 pieces...
> 
> 1 HTPC racked
> 
> 1 Outlaw 990
> 
> 1 Lumugen Vision HDQ
> 
> 1 Monster Power 7000
> 
> 1 Monster Power 2000
> 
> 
> Here are some pictures...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Sandman you really have to get the Toshiba A-1 hd dvd player.That baby will really show off your system.Ever since I have had that player it has been hard to play regular dvd's


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One wonders, Packed like crap, delivered on a meat packing truck, and no serial number.
> 
> 
> Are you sure this things for real?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Just so you guys know, I 've been in contact with the guys at Danley and they are NOT happy with the trucking company. They packaged it well and it obviously arrived not packaged well. As for a serial number, there should be a sticker on the back of the sub next to the input jacks with the serial number (there is on mine). If not, it may have been ripped off by the shipping company.


As for the meat packing...well...it IS one hell of a beefy sub!


----------



## BasementBob

I thought SandmanX had edited the photo to remove the serial number.


----------



## actionPlant

Whew! Took me a week to read this thread in its entirety. Amazing work Ruben, my hat's off to you. Can't wait for more pics of the finished product!


Looks like most of the equipment is there...after worrying through the issue with your last sub I'm eager to hear what you think of the new setup. You mentioned listening to music but haven't mentioned the sub's performance yet.


----------



## BasementBob

BTW, from
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm 


> Quote:
> The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power
> 
> ...
> 
> a perfect choice for ultra high end home theatre, and *military/research facilities*


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a mint Black Pioneer Elite 59av DVD player I'm going to put up for sale soon, you may be interested. I even have a custom rack shelf for it.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I assume that the upconversion only works over the DVI cable like all the other upconverting DVD players? I can't use it, since my projector doesn't have DVI or HDMI or anything newer than component inputs. BUT, my bulb is in need of replacing and I have been considering just getting a new projector instead... Too bad I don't have a money tree in my backyard, cause I have all kinds of hobbies I like to spend money on and I just don't have enough to go around!


----------



## superflysocal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My light box's were modified. The more you dim the lights, the slower the stars twinkle. To be honest with you, the slow twinkle looks the best and realest IMO. The regular speed twinkle looks a little disco-ish to me.
> 
> 
> My Lutron Graphik Eye is what I use to dim them.
> 
> 
> Ruben



May I ask how it was modified?

If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superflysocal* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> May I ask how it was modified?
> 
> If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?



I am guessing they just seprated the light from the motor so the light box now has 2 plugs.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *superflysocal* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> May I ask how it was modified?
> 
> If it is not modified, then you can't dim or slow the twinkle?



Some electronics were added to them. Resistors or something? I have no clue.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought SandmanX had edited the photo to remove the serial number.




I did edit it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kromkamp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, how loud are the fans on the back of those Crown amps?
> 
> 
> Are you aware of any other pro amps with DSP built in (for Parametric EQ) that are also fanless?
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Andy K.



The Crown K-1's are Fanless I beleive and have DSP.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *actionPlant* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whew! Took me a week to read this thread in its entirety. Amazing work Ruben, my hat's off to you. Can't wait for more pics of the finished product!
> 
> 
> Looks like most of the equipment is there...after worrying through the issue with your last sub I'm eager to hear what you think of the new setup. You mentioned listening to music but haven't mentioned the sub's performance yet.



A week?







Thanks for the kind words.


I will be hooking up the Danley sub Saturday to test. I was lacking a speakon cable to hook it up and I picked up one tonight. The issue with my bass before was due to my Velodynes amp phasing. So I got it upgraded to the latest amp and Ultra 2 THX specs by Velodyne. I am thinking about using the Velodyne in the back of the room and the Danley in the front. I will see how the Danley does in there first by itself.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, from
> http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm



Better Yet...


"The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power is simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet."


That's a pretty confident statement. I will verify this tomorrow.










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Oh, any suggestions on what to play to test the new Sub?


I just found some sub woofer test tones a member from AVS was sharing. They range from 10hz up to 18khz They are here http://www.freewebs.com/sbowler579/thedvds.htm Scroll down to the bottom of the Page to "AUDIO TEST TONES" and download and burn an audio CD.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## bpape

Hey Ruben.


I PM'd you some stuff. Still haven't been able to find the demo material thread.


Bryan


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Better Yet...
> 
> 
> "The DTS-20 a.k.a. The Tower of Power is simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet."
> 
> 
> That's a pretty confident statement. I will verify this tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Hmmm, must be tomorrow already, I have been feeling some tremmors up here in Minnesota.










Joe


----------



## bpape

Thanks to Tedd for PMing me the thread for Steve's demo DVD stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=612708 


I was thinking there was another one too that just had lists of scenes and movies as well as some good music demo tracks.


Bryan


----------



## Tedd

I might mention that several of those demos exceed 98's file capacity. I tried several times to download several files that I couldn't finish. You might also want to watch your monthly bandwidth capacity too. I got a nasty letter from my service provider as there is a 60G monthly limitation. Seems I used 160G that month...


----------



## bpape

 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=470529 


Some of this is video related but still some good stuff in there though not subwoofer specific.


Bryan


----------



## Tedd

The bass thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=505286


----------



## SmX

Thanks guys for all the links and recommendations. I am going to start testing now. I will report my thoughts later on if I'm still alive







.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman you really have to get the Toshiba A-1 hd dvd player.That baby will really show off your system.Ever since I have had that player it has been hard to play regular dvd's



I saw the Toshi HD DVD player at Best Buy in the Magnolia section yesterday. To me, it looked about the same as my HTPC running TheaterTek, ffdshow and DScaler playing regular DVDs. However, that was just off memory and wasn't an A & B test. But I can tell you, I wasn't blown away or anything when I saw it like when I saw real HD TV.

It also might be their set up over there. Maybe I will go pick one up today or tomorrow and check it out.


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

Lists of movies without an HH:MM:SS to HH:MM:SS are almost useless

a) if you can hear the bass, then you didn't need it

b) if you can't hear the bass, then you have to watch ALL of ALL those DVDs again.


A commentary of what you should be hearing is also helpful.


Some of the subwoofer reviews include plots of the sounds as well as the times involved.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...s-12-2001.html


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I saw the Toshi HD DVD player at Best Buy in the Magnolia section yesterday. To me, it looked about the same as my HTPC running TheaterTek, ffdshow and DScaler playing regular DVDs. However, that was just off memory and wasn't an A & B test. But I can tell you, I wasn't blown away or anything when I saw it like when I saw real HD TV.
> 
> It also might be their set up over there. Maybe I will go pick one up today or tomorrow and check it out.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I can vouch for the Tosh - an HD-DVD in my setup is absolutely the best image I've ever seen - better than HDTV even. I can barely bring myself to watch SD DVDs except that this player is also excellent at up-scaling. Only problem is it's very slow to start up and switch disks and things like that.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can vouch for the Tosh - an HD-DVD in my setup is absolutely the best image I've ever seen - better than HDTV even. I can barely bring myself to watch SD DVDs except that this player is also excellent at up-scaling. Only problem is it's very slow to start up and switch disks and things like that.



So what does a guy like me with 1100 SD DVDs do?


Ruben


----------



## flabingo

I would suggest to take a look at the OPPO which will improve your pq at a very modest price. I should have the one I bought next week. The reviews are excellent. I just gave away my $400.00 Sony progressive scan and will replace it with the oppo.


----------



## SmX

So where do I start?


Well today I got the Danley up behind the screenwall in position and wired up to the Amp/processor/DVD player. What can I say? I'm still not getting what I am expecting to get. Am I expecting too much? The Danley rattles everything in my room that isn't tied down, but doesn't produce any sound pressure.


I use to do live sound and owned Turbo Sounds and EAW bottoms, etc. My live system used to produce chest caving SPL from great distances as well as up front. My live system use to make you gasp for air because the bass pressure was insane yet undistorted. Your heart would skip beats because the bass was thumping. Even when I was younger, I had a system in my truck with 4 12" woofers that was bass insane.


The local theater I go to has a really kick ass system that has pretty impressive sound pressure as well. A Club my friend DJ's at in Miami called Club Space has Insane sound pressure too. These are enviorments I am use to, so that is what I am hoping to get out of my sub. I am not getting none of this with the Danley nor did I with the Velodyne.


For test material I ran War of the Worlds (Aliens coming out of the ground scene).

10 second Test tones ranging from 10hz up to 80hz,

Some bass thumping Hip Hop music that rips trunks apart.

And some Sound Effect cds I have of Jet engines and Trains.


Most of This stuff rattled loose objects in my room, but didn't have any effect on me. It's like you can hear the bass but not feel it. Some of the tested material even distorted on the Danley.


I have to say my room is the issue at this point. I would hate to have to rip things down and do it again.


But on a good note, the Crown xti constantly worked hard for a couple hours and the fan kicked on a couple times for a few seconds. I don't think it would ever come on under normal movie watching conditions. However, the fan is incredibly loud when it does come on for the few seconds. The amp never got warm to the touch.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flabingo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would suggest to take a look at the OPPO which will improve your pq at a very modest price. I should have the one I bought next week. The reviews are excellent. I just gave away my $400.00 Sony progressive scan and will replace it with the oppo.



Better than a Lumagen Vision HDQ?


Ruben


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben,


May I ask at what level you are playing these at on your receiver? Are you saying that you can hear the bass fine, but cannot feel it in your chest at all? Are you trying to create the effect that every time you watch a movie, you self-defibrilate yourself? ;-)


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YldeSyde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> May I ask at what level you are playing these at on your receiver? Are you saying that you can hear the bass fine, but cannot feel it in your chest at all? Are you trying to create the effect that every time you watch a movie, you self-defibrillate yourself? ;-)



Yes, I would hope










Well I bought "the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet" so I was expecting something phenomenal when I tested it.


Basement Bob gave me a couple good tips I am going to try tomorrow to see if it helps.


I'm going to run some sweeps tomorrow with the Danley and with the Velodyne.


Ruben


----------



## miltimj

It looks like what you're after is multiple large drivers with maximum air movement, such as an infinite baffle setup (or multiple sealed). With the Danley's horn design, it won't push as much air as an array of subs with the full force of air directed at the listening position. It may get low, but it seems that you're looking for the chest thumping that only driver surface area and high Xmax can cure.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It looks like what you're after is multiple large drivers with maximum air movement, such as an infinite baffle setup (or multiple sealed). With the Danley's horn design, it won't push as much air as an array of subs with the full force of air directed at the listening position. It may get low, but it seems that you're looking for the chest thumping that only driver surface area and high Xmax can cure.



I agree with Tim. And I too have run lots of live sound and like the "feel" of good bass reproduction.


You are looking for lots of air movement. With all of your audio connections can you get your hands on a pro speaker array to test? Maybe 2 15s and 4-8 12s?


And you have that extra amp channel so you could bump the wattage into the array to get near some live wattage levels.


Joe


----------



## bpape

I'm going to have to agree that it's likely a matter of expectation. There is a difference between being loud, low, and clean - and (as has been stated above) having multiple large drivers just launching a wave of air at you.


We can certainly pull some of the bass absorbtion and allow the room to resonate more if you want to try that - though I'm not sure this is still going to give you what you're looking for.


Was this experiment done with just the Danley or with the Danley in front and Velo in back as you spoke of earlier? In either case, I'd like to see even some raw SPL measurements to verify what's going on from an objective standpoint.


----------



## kromkamp

Ruben, why not get the Thigpen Rotary Subwoofer and be done with it? That thing is *just* about air movement










Andy K.


----------



## crackyflipside

Hi Ruben, your problem is the Danley is only one single 12" driver. Although it does play 'loud' and definitely goes down low, you just dont have the surface area on a single 12" sub to really blast into a room.


Since I know how you are always looking for the best, I would tell you to either do an IB install with 18" drivers (I can guess the price of one danley can be the whole cost of the project) or you can go with the rotary woofer which is the absolute best performer numbers-wise, but it does cost a pretty prenny.


Both installs require alot of empty space.


If you don't have the luxury of empty space, there are alot of DIY box sub projects that can very easily give you the best bang for your buck.


----------



## ebr

I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.


On the DVD issue - the HD-A1 is an awesome SD DVD player. I've never had the Oppo bot some who do say it does just as good a job. So, for an extra couple hundred you could have both (but, admitedly a bit of a clunky start up).


----------



## BasementBob

kromkamp:


Have you seen this one: http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/pro...jackHammer.cfm


----------



## rider

Sure, it's an "expectations thing," but I think Ruben's expectations are completely realistic and attainable. In my extremely modest (soon to be remodeled) small HT, the Velodyne DD-15 makes it feel like something is grabbing the internal organs in my chest & abdominal cavities and shaking the hell out of them -- it can really make your heart skip a beat sometimes. It _definitely_ doesn't just feel like the room and contents are vibrating and shaking around me and I'm not a part of it.....people literally gasp the first time they're in my theater if it's a good LFE movie.


Ruben, I'm sure you'll persevere until you get it just right....


----------



## BasementBob

Am I right that chest pounding is directly proportional to SPL?


If so, and if SandmanX's Danley isn't producing the SPL, and the Danley staff can't solve the issue, then perhaps SandmanX will wander off to those places that he knows have enough bass and find out what they are using there and give it a try at home.


----------



## chirpie

There isn't a small chance that Ruben is addicted to "exaggerated 35 hz" bass is there? 


That's the "club bass" special as I recall. ^_^


Also, in these other places that he's using as reference, where they on a slab or wood floor? I find bass two different experiences for each...


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.



He's not looking for shaking the room as much as a thump in the chest.


That leads into Bob's question of whether chest pounding is directly proportional to SPL. I would submit that it is, however that is not the complete equation either. At least one other factor is the combined surface area of the driver cones. As Chris B. mentioned, a 12" driver may be capable of huge SPLs (due to its configuration - a horn enclosure in this case), but the surface area keeps the right side of that equation below the "chest pounding" level.


Four 15"ers, though they may have similar SPL or even less, would provide much more chest pounding action due to their surface area. I want the same thing as Ruben in this regard, and to me ideal will be four 15s or 18s in an IB setup, though since I'll probably have them under/behind the screen wall proscenium, I'll probably use multiple sealed enclosures (two with 2 15s each most likely). Now I just need to determine the appropriate size, and whether I'm going to port them or not. I could experiment either way (it'll be a DIY install). Ruben could do something similar.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I may not have the same expectations as Ruben, but my SVS PB12+/2 shakes the room and me (now that I fixed it). I can't believe that monster thing didn't do at least as well, so maybe it is just an expectation thing.
> 
> 
> On the DVD issue - the HD-A1 is an awesome SD DVD player. I've never had the Oppo bot some who do say it does just as good a job. So, for an extra couple hundred you could have both (but, admitedly a bit of a clunky start up).



I don't want my room to shake. A shaking room reminds me of that low rider Toyota you see driving around with the trunk lid and license plate rattling. What good is a shaking room if your not shaking too? I want that air movement that moves your shirt and I wll be happy. I want to feel the movie as well as see it.


I got the best damn AT screen on the planet with a picture that pops off the screen, now I need my sound to come in the room and squeeze me.


I think I'm going to have the biggest speaker collection in the world by the time I'm done here.


Ruben


----------



## johnson_sb

This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnson_sb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"



Very much agreed.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnson_sb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This calls for a "SandmanX DIY subwoofer project!"



No Thanks, next thing you'll know I will have SVS and Velodyne upset










Ruben


----------



## actionPlant

Have you tried increasing SPL in the room by temporarily blocking returns and any other airleaks? I remember you mentioning returns here and there, maybe the room is breathing too much?


----------



## CollinViegas

here is my question.


How does the Velodyne DD-18 stack up to the danley?


I have compared the Velo to the Trinity sub and I am wondering if selling a trinity for the Danley would be a big step up. Or maybe I would be better off just adding more trinity subs... lol


----------



## crackyflipside




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here is my question.
> 
> 
> How does the Velodyne DD-18 stack up to the danley?
> 
> 
> I have compared the Velo to the Trinity sub and I am wondering if selling a trinity for the Danley would be a big step up. Or maybe I would be better off just adding more trinity subs... lol



Personally I would rather have a DD18 instead of the danley sub for your case. It's just so difficult to beat servo ability to decrease distortion and extend the low frequency and sound quality; and to have an 18" surface area is spectacular. Remember, LFE is all about moving air. An 18" driver is going to move alot more air than a 12", the key is to move the air fast and maintain low distortion.


----------



## SmX

OK guys, good news (I think).


The problem was with the Outlaw Processor, the Volume is different from the B & K and I had it too low the first day I tested it. Once I got the SPL meter out and got the volume up it started doing bigger things.


First, I hooked up my Velodyne and ran some test tones ranging from 10hz up to 80hz. The Velodyne didn't respond until I hit 60hz in my room. Anything below 60hz didn't do anything in my room.


Then I hooked up the Danley and yes it's a monster. It responded well from 15hz all the way up to 90 (that's all I tested). 22 - 25hz created the most earth rattling bass. My wife was upstairs on the other side of the house and her bed was vibrating like a cheap massage chair. Then I went in the guest bedrooms directly above the theater and the vibration was so intense my ears were itching and my whole body was vibrating with the 25hz tone at 105 db looping.


No question, the Danley completely eliminates my Velodyne THX Ultra 2 HGS 18 from the equation







It also moves allot of air out of its port, so much that my GoM in front of it was bowing out.


Im going to try to move the Danley around the room as well when my helping hand gets back.


Here are some pictures


Here is the area behind my screen wall where the Danley goes...











I put these rubber mats down first to prevent the sub from rattling against wood stage...











Here is the Danley in place on top of the rubber mats. All the scratches on it came like that from Danley. Notice the port on the left side of the Danley.











This is the kind of cable you use to hook up the Danley, it is 12 gauge speakon cable.











Here is a further shot of the Danley in Place. You can see it is almost as wide as my 10 foot wide opening on my screen wall. Notice the port on the left Side of the Danley.











Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crackyflipside* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Personally I would rather have a DD18 instead of the danley sub for your case. It's just so difficult to beat servo ability to decrease distortion and extend the low frequency and sound quality; and to have an 18" surface area is spectacular. Remember, LFE is all about moving air. An 18" driver is going to move alot more air than a 12", the key is to move the air fast and maintain low distortion.



Sorry, but the Velodyne can not even think about comparing to the Danley. Its like comparing my Harmon Kardon computer sub to the Velodyne. Yes, It's that much different.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie

So now you got your squeezing you need. (For now) A delayed happy ending, but thank goodness it was just a setup glitch.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry, but the Velodyne can not even think about comparing to the Danley. Its like comparing my Harmon Kardon computer sub to the Velodyne. Yes, It's that much different.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I hope this puts a permanent tear on the larger woofer is better automatically mentality.


All things being equal they have their advantages, sure, but my golly there's a lot of other things that make a subwoofer sing... (like the size of that enclosure... ^_^)


I'll throw in an apology for that 35hz crack too.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *actionPlant* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you tried increasing SPL in the room by temporarily blocking returns and any other airleaks? I remember you mentioning returns here and there, maybe the room is breathing too much?



Good point. I have one supply and one return they are both 4" x 36".


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> here is my question.
> 
> 
> How does the Velodyne DD-18 stack up to the danley?
> 
> 
> I have compared the Velo to the Trinity sub and I am wondering if selling a trinity for the Danley would be a big step up. Or maybe I would be better off just adding more trinity subs... lol



My velodyne used to be great in my non treated room. I think what is happening here is my stage is de-coupled from the cement floor. So no vibration travels through the concrete like it did in my other room. The sub is pretty much de-coupled from my theater.


When my helping hand gets back, I will move the sub directly on the concrete floor to see if anything changes. I will also move it into a big untreated room I got to see how it does against the velodyne under the same conditions.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crackyflipside* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remember, LFE is all about moving air. An 18" driver is going to move alot more air than a 12", the key is to move the air fast and maintain low distortion.



I have to say you are wrong. The 12" Danley is moving much more serious air when compared to the 18" Velodyne. Where the Velodyne craps out, is where the Danley is just getting started.



Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:



> Quote:
> Then I hooked up the Danley and yes it's a monster. It responded well from 15hz all the way up to 90 (that's all I tested). 22 - 25hz created the most earth rattling bass. My wife was upstairs on the other side of the house and her bed was vibrating like a cheap massage chair. Then I went in the guest bedrooms directly above the theater and the vibration was so intense my ears were itching and my whole body was vibrating with the 25hz tone at 105 db looping.



[humor]

If you turn it up too loud, this may happen:
The house after the fire department arrived 
Outside view 
The street outside the house


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [humor]
> 
> If you turn it up too loud, this may happen:
> The house after the fire department arrived
> Outside view
> The street outside the house



Nice, just what I was Hoping for










Actually, I was really at least hoping for my neighbors to come over in worry of earth tremors. When that happens, my job is complete.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice, just what I was Hoping for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I was really at least hoping for my neighbors to come over in worry of earth tremors. When that happens, my job is complete.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Well best as I can tell, if they don't come knocking now, you can stack another tower of power on top of the first one easily.


----------



## SmX

I want to take this time out and thank everyone that contributed to my thread here. Because of most of you, my theater became a reality.


I also want to let everyone here know I'm not some sort of tightass that everything has to be 100% perfect in my life. One reason I'm aiming at everything being top notch to what I expect is because a bunch of my friends know I've been spending a good portion of my time working on my theater. When they come down to see what I put all my time in, I want to have something to show and prove even down to the damn butter used on the popcorn. But most importantly, I want to enjoy it to it's fullest as well.


I know most people would of thrown a quick system in there maybe eq it and call it a day but I'm after more than that. The problem is I have done sound work most of my life, from studio to live and I have been spoiled as to what I should be getting.


My Klipsch system is scheduled to arrive on the 14th, I hope it really does what I have read and as always, I will let you know my honest opinion.


Thanks again

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, if for some reason, your Danley does not work out, you could always call J.L. and get info on the sub that he created:

25 cubic foot sub, two 18" Ascendant Avalanche drivers


----------



## ronnie_jackson

I bet its the humidity in Florida thats giving you issues with the sub. You should probably ship that thing to me in Texas.










Ronnie


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Ship smip. I've got a 15 year old GMC pickup that can still make a trip to FL and back. A sub like that deserves to be in the nations capital.


I need an excuse to visit my sister in Melbourne FL.


Ruben, just let me know when it will be sitting on the curb.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also want to let everyone here know I'm not some sort of tightass that everything has to be 100% perfect in my life.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben, You are married aren't you? So obviously you are accustomed to compromise.










It was probably a spousal compromise that your theater ended up in your garage!










Joe


----------



## miltimj

Thanks for the post, Scott. That's exactly what I've been looking for! I'll have to go grab some details on that DIY build...


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the post, Scott. That's exactly what I've been looking for! I'll have to go grab some details on that DIY build...



Hijack Alert!


Tim -- you know with all the knowledge you've learned from the the wealth of HT build threads (especially this one), we'll be expecting you to get started on your HT as soon as you return to the states. No Excuses!!


----------



## FoeHammer865




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Danley in place on top of the rubber mats. All the scratches on it came like that from Danley. Notice the port on the left side of the Danley.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben




Am I missing something or is your Danley really scratched up and banged around? It appears that way in the picture at least. Is that just the camera picking up stuff you really can't see in person?


I was under the impression this was brand new.


Thanks


TREVOR


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the post, Scott. That's exactly what I've been looking for! I'll have to go grab some details on that DIY build...



Tim, go here to learn more about it and also see what else J.L. made up:
Very High Quality DIY speakers anywhere? 


Start on page 68 and go from there.


He replaced a 15" Sonotube sub with his dual 18" sub.


----------



## miltimj

Great, thanks for the link, Scott. I wonder how much of a chest pounding they give, given their orientation (not direct radiating). I guess I'll start reading and find out..










Steve, you better believe it! As soon as we buy the next house. Unfortunately it may take a while since I will coincide it with finishing the rest of the basement. But I promise lots of pictures!


Trevor, Ruben has mentioned (see his last post) that his Danley was received with significant shipping damage. Apparently not to the point of affecting its function, but plenty of scratches.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim, go here to learn more about it and also see what else J.L. made up:
> Very High Quality DIY speakers anywhere?
> 
> 
> Start on page 68 and go from there.
> 
> 
> He replaced a 15" Sonotube sub with his dual 18" sub.



Page 68 is what post number? I only get 40 pages


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SVonhof

Joe, how about this:
start of J.L.'s dual 18" sub 

Joe, you must have your settings to shw more than the default number of posts per page.


Tim, he was saying that the subs were dancing on the floor before he put the proper feet on the bottom, because of the violent bass waves. My guess is that it doesn't really matter which direction they are facing, since what you want is to increase the pressure in the room, which something like that will do no matter what...


----------



## miltimj

Right, I would think that's because they are directing the energy at the floor. I was thinking of mounting them toward the listener to get a more direct impact. Shaking the floor is only 20% of the effect that I'm looking for. (Another 30% being pure SPL/volume, and the other 50% being the chest thumping/air movement).


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe, how about this:
> start of J.L.'s dual 18" sub
> 
> Joe, you must have your settings to shw more than the default number of posts per page.



You are right, I had changed it because of this (Rubens) thread. For a while messages were coming so quick I got tired of hitting the "next page" all of the time.


I set it back to the standard so I won't have this issue again.


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FoeHammer865* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am I missing something or is your Danley really scratched up and banged around? It appears that way in the picture at least. Is that just the camera picking up stuff you really can't see in person?
> 
> 
> I was under the impression this was brand new.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> TREVOR



Yes, that is how it came off the truck. The other sides are scratched up too. I think they sent me a demo model because the bottom (side facing you in the picture) is scratched up to high hell like they were moving it around standing up on cement. I really wasn't happy with the condition it arrived, I like all my equipment in mint condition, especially for resale down the road. However, it will be behind my screen so no-one will ever get to see it.


I think Soundood is working on getting me a replacement or something.


Ruben


----------



## rha1211

Sandman, did you get my PM?


----------



## Soundood

Okay, just so everybody knows...Danley is making up a new sub for Rubin. Yes, the sub was a demo (used at Infocomm) and yes there were supposed to be a few small scratches (which were taken into account in the pricing)...but the wear and damage shown is not how it left Danley...so they are replacing it and making good.


Also, you just GOT to love AVS forum! Rubin posts one comment about the bass after one series of tests and here come the IB and DIY guys







! Claims that multiple drivers are better and 18" woofers are better







Hey, you are welcome to argue with Tom Danley when it comes to subwoofing...but I think he will win










Folks, it don't matter HOW you get bass energy into the room or what you use to achieve it...what matters is how much energy you get into the room, how low the distortion and group delay are and whether it fits your space. In those categories, for a one box solution for people who aren't comfortable or don't have the time, woodworking knowledge or comfort level to build their own... the DTS-20 is pretty hard to beat. Yes, you can achieve more sheer output with a huge IB woofer but that may not be practical, won't save him any money, wouldn't have specs anywhere near as good, and after all that effort...chances are he might have EXACTLY The same issues (after all, the big Velodyne didn't do it either). Hey, we could always have Danley build something custom that will literally lift the roof off if we wanted. They did built a bigger version that hit 130 db at 10hz (I'm assuming that would be "adequate" for most people). Point is, there are likely other issues that need to be addressed to get him the impact he is seeking.

Way I look at it, with one of the world's foremost experts in low frequency production his your side, I am pretty certain Rubin can achieve his goals.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Okay, just so everybody knows...Danley is making up a new sub for Rubin. Yes, the sub was a demo (used at Infocomm) and yes there were supposed to be a few small scratches (which were taken into account in the pricing)...but the wear and damage shown is not how it left Danley...so they are replacing it and making good.



This is awesome news, thanks for following through on it. The funny thing is I think Danley sent me the sub they have on their site because it has the same scratches on the bottom of their MTS-20 product shot.


This may now give me a chance to try 2 of these in my room.










Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is awesome news, thanks for following through on it. The funny thing is I think Danley sent me the sub they have on their site because it has the same scratches on the bottom of their MTS-20 product shot.
> 
> 
> This may now give me a chance to try 2 of these in my room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Then you can tell them to give a new price for the banged up one, keep both, and have the concrete cracker you always wanted.


----------



## FusionRx

With that much bass you should offer seatbelts for the chairs.


Most folks would look like this guy:

www.energylab.de/ wordpress/?p=1553


----------



## BritInVA

Broken link but assume you mean this guy











hee, hee


----------



## FusionRx

Yep, thats the one, I couldn't figure out how to pull the image out... Didn't realized I'd screwed up the URL. Thanks!!


----------



## warrenP

What you've done is awesome, and your thread here is a great testament to what you have been able to achieve. Thanks to you for taking the time and effort to post and continue your thead here. To say your theater and this thread are benchmarks is both true and an understatement




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want to take this time out and thank everyone that contributed to my thread here. Because of most of you, my theater became a reality....


----------



## SmX

Here is the Danley product shot from their site. The strange thing is that the damages on the product shot are the same as on the one I got. Maybe they shipped me their original sub they used? Seems strange they would use a scratched up sub for a product shot. However, the sub is incredible scratched or not.











Ruben


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For a one box solution for people who aren't comfortable or don't have the time, woodworking knowledge or comfort level to build their own... ..Yes, you can achieve more sheer output with a huge IB woofer but that may not be practical, won't save him any money, wouldn't have specs anywhere near as good, and after all that effort...chances are he might have EXACTLY The same issues



Are you talking about the same Ruben we're talking about? Woodworking knowledge? Comfortable building his own? Not practical? Save money? Bad specs? A lot of effort? Working through issues?


Ummm, yeah......


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you talking about the same Ruben we're talking about? Woodworking knowledge? Comfortable building his own? Not practical? Save money? Bad specs?
> 
> 
> Ummm, yeah......



I would of went the IB way if my set up permitted it. Unfortunately, there was no where to vent the IB under my conditions. So I went with the best possible thing (according to people I spoke to) that would fit in my room behind my screen wall.


Ruben


----------



## miltimj

Completely understood, Ruben. I wasn't really questioning the solution you chose. More soundood's reasoning.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is the Danley product shot from their site. The strange thing is that the damages on the product shot are the same as on the one I got. Maybe they shipped me their original sub they used? Seems strange they would use a scratched up sub for a product shot. However, the sub is incredible scratched or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Did they only make just the one that you now have?


----------



## SVonhof

BTW, you are making me seriously reconsider the subs I have in my room.


I have two of the Titanic 1000 kits from Parts Express and I am considering either building new boxes and replacing the drivers or combining both drivers and both amps into a brand new box that will allow the drivers to work better and free'er (is that a word?).

Power handling: 400 watts RMS/565 watts max

Impedance: 4 ohms

Fs: 28 Hz

Qe: .42

Qm: 5.23

Xmax 18.7 mm

Sensitivity 87.7 dB 2.83V/1m

Vas: .95 cu. ft. /26.39 ltr

Qts: .39

Sd: .0293 m^2

Re: 3.05 ohm


Any sub designers watching this thread?


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did they only make just the one that you now have?



Nope...there is one lurking behind my new screen wall as we speak (you know...the one waiting for the SMX screen







). Couple other forum members have them too.


As for trying TWO DTS-20's




























Go For It! Just make sure you have your insurance paid up.


And that may be the demo from the product shots. They sent two to Infocomm to REALLY tick off the people in the booths around them. If you move them around, they do get scratches on the bottom. Kinda the only way to move that beast by yourself is to walk it around and hope to god it doesn't start to tip.


----------



## BasementBob











from: http://www.soundimage.dk/Different-col/Extreme.htm


----------



## mr_alex2

Ruben - simply amazing! Read everything from the start, it's freaking great!!!!


I live in Miami... I thought I heard some rumbling from the sub - maybe it was you? HAHAH!!!



So, about this sub. It only uses 1 12" woofer? WOW!!!! Is it possible to just see the woofer alone? I'm kind of curious to see what it looks like? I assume it is all in the technique - enclosure?



Once again - GREAT JOB WITH EVERYTHING!


Peace,

Alex V.


----------



## mysphyt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mr_alex2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it possible to just see the woofer alone?













Not the exact woofer, but a similar model designed by Tom Danley, the designer of the DTS-20.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mr_alex2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it possible to just see the woofer alone? I'm kind of curious to see what it looks like? I assume it is all in the technique - enclosure?
> 
> Alex V.



Can't see the woofer unless Ruben removes the access panel or tears apart the cabinet, since it is a horn design and the woofer is in the enclosure, away from prying eyes...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hope this puts a permanent tear on the larger woofer is better automatically mentality.
> 
> 
> All things being equal they have their advantages, sure, but my golly there's a lot of other things that make a subwoofer sing... (like the size of that enclosure... ^_^)
> 
> 
> I'll throw in an apology for that 35hz crack too.



I never believed in that for all cases. When I was in my younger age of driving around with booming systems in the car, I tried putting a double 18 box in the back for bass. Being the the car was so small (a truck might of been better) the sub sounded like a big hunk of crap and had no bass. But once I did double 12"s it was an earthquake. Both boxes were the same style. I later got into dual bandpass boxes and did an all acrylic double 12" dual band pass sub that was totally insane. The box was made out of 3/4" clear acrylic and housed 2 Eclipse SW9122 12" Speakers The bass was ported directly into the car so there was no rattling trunk.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The bass was ported directly into the car so there was no rattling trunk.
> 
> 
> Ruben



That's my number one pet peeve with car audio... that one right there. 


I shake my head when the rattling is louder than the bass. I know the kids mean well, but sheesh. ^_^;


----------



## SmX

A couple people been PMing and emailing about the balck material I used to cover the wall behind the screen wall.


The material is 100% black muslin. It's used as a backdrop for photo shoots. You can get it all day on eBay for $30 for a big piece. Since the wall is covered with 4" cotton (which can be kind of dusty) and was blue, I used black muslin as BPapes recommendations to blacken the wall and keep the dust down back there.

Plus the musiln doesn't reflect sound.


GoM would of worked too, but GoM doesn't come wide enough. I was able to get a 12' x 30' piece of black muslin to use in various spaces.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Well today I did all my re-wiring for the new Klipsch Ultra 2 THX package that's coming in Friday (Today). I located all 5 amps and a monster power conditioner in a custom rack I made in the utility closet wall. The new 20 space rack is outside my theater entrance and the back of the amps are inside my air exchanger room. The air exchangers are located in utility closets out here in Florida, so I used an empty part of the closet wall to build my amp rack in.


So I took care of any possible heat and noise issues by putting the amps where they are. Also, that air exchanger utility closet is the back of my theater rack closet that houses my pre-amp and all the other gear. More pictures coming tomorrow when the Klipsch system arrives.


I'm also considering getting 7 Crowson TES 100 Transducers for my chairs. They seem to be the best tactiles on the market from what I am reading about them. I am getting 1 first to try and then if I like them I will get 6 more. I will be able to utilize the 2 open channels I have left on my Crown XTi's.


Ruben


----------



## trpltongue

Ruben,


Have you considered the Odyssey motion simulators? Tryg (I believe) swears they are better than any tactilce transducers.


----------



## SVonhof

The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.

I have yet to try the Crowson transducers, but was contacted by their rep a while back. They are somewhat close to me, but since I was never thinking of going with them, I never went out to their shop to check them out.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.



The Odysseys also require a $550 per year software license.


Joe


----------



## trpltongue

Yes,


The Odyssey is a completely different technology and it is more expensive, but Ruben hasn't exactly "scrimped" on anything in his theater so far. Also, from what I've read, the Odyssey beats the pants off of the tactile transducers.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes,
> 
> 
> The Odyssey is a completely different technology and it is more expensive, but Ruben hasn't exactly "scrimped" on anything in his theater so far. Also, from what I've read, the Odyssey beats the pants off of the tactile transducers.



I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform, if at all, when they have not pre-captured the movements for a DVD?


Joe


----------



## ebr

Why in the $$%#& do you require tactiles with "simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet"??


My lowly SVS moves me (not just my room) better than any tactiles I've had (granted, I haven't had the best) so I cannot imagine them adding much to your experience with that beast of a woofer you have now...


----------



## trpltongue

Joe,


I'll defer to those that actually own/sell the system for that question as I don't know.


ebr,


That surprises me. Me cheap transducers add a different element of bass energy above and beyond my sub.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> ebr,
> 
> 
> That surprises me. Me cheap transducers add a different element of bass energy above and beyond my sub.



I agree. I bought a set of buttkickers when AVS had that promotion. Although I leave them on a relatively low volume I feel that the experience is enhanced quite a bit.


I have noticed that there is a point of volume with them that you can sense that the movement is coming from a different source. I keep them just below that point.


Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform...?
> 
> Joe



If I remember correctly, there is over an inch of travel in the pistons (if you want to call them that) and they can produce several G's of accelleration.


Mr. Poindexter is watching this thread, right? I will send him a PM to make sure he chimes in here.


----------



## SmX

I think the Odyssey/D-box is around $20,000.00 and has to be built into your riser/platform. It's like the Back to the Future ride at Universal from what I read.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

They make the D-box stuff for chairs as well, instead of platforms, but from what I read, normal theater chairs can't handle the G load of the Odyssey.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mr. Poindexter is watching this thread, right? I will send him a PM to make sure he chimes in here.



I read up on the thread from time to time, but I don't subscribe to it. Thanks for the PM - I will answer everything to the best of my ability.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Have you considered the Odyssey motion simulators? Tryg (I believe) swears they are better than any tactilce transducers.



I don't know about Tryg, but I certainly swear by them. I owned one before I was in the design/installation business. I now own 4 systems and am looking to get a 5th. I run them in 2 rooms in my house - shooting for 3 rooms but I don't know if I can get that past the committee, I mean my wife. I need to rewire downstairs to get it to work there.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly, there is over an inch of travel in the pistons (if you want to call them that) and they can produce several G's of accelleration.



There are several different versions of the D-BOX motion systems. The initial one had 5/8" of travel. Later, an XL (eXtra Lift) version came out with 7/8" of travel. Those were the only platform based systems and recently the XL became the only one left in the platform line as they retired the standard 5/8" lift unit. I have what was called the Odyssee XL and is now called the 4600p. It can lift 1.2 tons with 2 G's of force. 7/8" may not sound like a lot of travel, but it is enough to give the sensation that is backed up by the video.


The vertical integrated systems run from 1" of travel in standard actuators to 1.5" of travel in the extreme actuators.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why in the $$%#& do you require tactiles with "simply the most powerful, lowest frequency reproducing subwoofer on the planet"??
> 
> 
> My lowly SVS moves me (not just my room) better than any tactiles I've had (granted, I haven't had the best) so I cannot imagine them adding much to your experience with that beast of a woofer you have now...



The reason is simple - subwoofers are not that efficient in ultra low frequencies. His sub isn't the most powerful low frequency sub on the planet - the Thigpen rotary sub is. I was at the temporary install at Tzucc's where it was putting out 125db at 3Hz (yes, THREE Hertz) with very little distortion (around 2-3%, IIRC).


You haven't had the best in tactile systems out there. I have. I have also had the best in subwoofers available. Subs have limitations that prevent them from doing what tactile systems can do. Tactile systems have limitations that prevent them from doing what motion simulators can do. A great sub is not the end of the line, believe me.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've only done cursory reading on the Odysseys. How does it perform, if at all, when they have not pre-captured the movements for a DVD?
> 
> 
> Joe



They have an audio mode that works similarly to how it works with a tactile transducer. Their audio mode was actually better in the series 2 controller than the series 3 and I am pushing them to go back to the way it was in future controllers. I don't make the decisions there, but I like to think they do listen to me. In the series 2 controller, it would work off the LFE plus the left and right audio (either from the mains or the surrounds).


The movements are not "pre-captured" but actually programmed and loaded into the motion controller. While it sounds like a semantic difference, it is important to realize these motion codes are programmed by experts and do not exist anywhere outside of D-BOX's extensive library of motion codes. Even if you could get another motion simulator, like a Dorian or a Landmark, it would be of little use without the codes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm also considering getting 7 Crowson TES 100 Transducers for my chairs. They seem to be the best tactiles on the market from what I am reading about them. I am getting 1 first to try and then if I like them I will get 6 more. I will be able to utilize the 2 open channels I have left on my Crown XTi's.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I have owned or experienced just about everything out there. The D-BOX is by far the best but it really isn't a tactile transducer - it is true motion and belongs in a seperate class. That said, out of the tactile transducers, the Crowson is without a doubt the best there is. I would highly recommend them if you cannot afford D-BOX Technology. If you can afford D-BOX, get D-BOX instead.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Odyssey is a completly different technology than any of the tactiles, more expensive and takes a separate controller to work. I have only experienced them at CES so far, but they are cool. Mr. Poindexter sells them and will have his demo theater up and running soon, with several versions of the Odyssey's.



They take a seperate controller and that is a good thing because you are then getting intelligent control off a dedicated 4 channel motion track. Think of it like surround sound motion vs. mono that comes off the LFE. In addition, the bass is tied exclusively to sound while the motion is tied to action on screen. Unlike a tactile transducer, which will rumble when James Earl Jones or that guy from the Green Mile are talking, you will only get motion effects when you should and will get them when there is no bass content related to it, like the waves during A Perfect Storm or the turbulence during Cast Away or swimming in Finding Nemo.


I have both 2 and 3 axis Quest (a type of Odyssee system that comes integrated with its own chairs) in both standard and extreme, as well as 3 axis Odyssee systems in both platform and integrated versions. The only thing I won't be able to show at my place will be experimental equipment due to NDA. I am a beta tester for D-BOX as well as a couple other brands and will likely get more experimental gear in when the testing facility goes live. Even if you want to buy from somebody else, it is worth it to see since nobody outside of the D-BOX manufacturing facility will have as much D-BOX on display.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Odysseys also require a $550 per year software license.
> 
> 
> Joe



Not quite. The software license is to get new codes. It is not required to have the system work. The license is either $500 to have CDs mailed to you monthly or $250 to download them from the Internet. The Internet download is the way to go - it cost half as much and is faster to get new titles. Win-win there and the controllers can also be configured to automatically download new titles weekly with no user interraction. Systems come with the first year subscription free.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the Odyssey/D-box is around $20,000.00 and has to be built into your riser/platform. It's like the Back to the Future ride at Universal from what I read.
> 
> 
> Ruben



As Scott mentioned below, they can be built into a platform or into a chair so you are not tied to platform based solutions. As far as pricing, that is the ballpark for a platform MSRP, but integrated chairs can cost less.


As far as the Back to the Future ride, the D-BOX systems blow away everything I have experienced at amusement parks in terms of control and finesse and have only lost out on total throw and for degrees of freedom against some rides that have 6 degrees of freedom - something not possible in a home theater environment due to safety issues. Star Trek The Experience at the Hilton in Vegas is one such system with 6 degrees of freedom using a large Landmark system. That is state of the art in amusement park motion and it still pales in comparison to the D-BOX in terms of details and finesse. They are powerful and big, but a little on the clunky side relatively, so it is like comparing a semi truck against a sedan in terms of smooth ride and handling.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Star Trek The Experience at the Hilton in Vegas is one such system with 6 degrees of freedom using a large Landmark system. That is state of the art in amusement park motion and it still pales in comparison to the D-BOX in terms of details and finesse. They are powerful and big, but a little on the clunky side relatively, so it is like comparing a semi truck against a sedan in terms of smooth ride and handling.



That's good news, I will actually be at the Star Trek convention from the 18th to the 20th. My company has a booth there. We are selling lenticular posters among other things. I figured as the owner I needed to go to at least one convention this year.










I will have to try out the Landmark while I am there.


Joe


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

I will possibly see you there. One of my customers invited me to go. I have never been to a Trek convention, but it is VERY close to the open house for my new theater and I will have to be going to Florida close to then as well to finish up another install so I might not be able to make it.


----------



## jmorris644

If you do look for Mello Smello.


Joe


----------



## Soundood

Actually, Tom Danley DID built the most powerful sub on the planet. It was for military research and was called the Sonic Boom Cannon. It does 132 db at 3 hz. And NO, you can't have one. It is a moot point anyways. It won't fit in most rooms.


How about this...the DTS-20 is the most powerful CONVENTIONAL subwoofer in the world that is reasonably practical...


----------



## Soundood

Okay folks. So Ruben will be getting a new DTS-20. Danley would rather sell the one he has off than have to pay to ship it back. So...if anybody is interested and wants a good deal on a DTS-20, please let me know asap. The new sub is coming in a full blown wood crate bolted to a pallet so the old one would go right into that crate for shipment to you. Or...you could pick it up. PM me for a special one time price. The sub works perfectly and will carry the full warranty.


----------



## bpape

I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all



Boy, talk about a suckers bet ! No thanks










Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got $10 that says he'll try to run both of them in the room and not get rid of the existing one after all



If I could stand them up behind my screen, I would seriously consider it. If they sound that much better as a pair, I may have to modify my stage soffit to stand them.


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

Ruben,


What do you think of the Klipsch THX Ultra2 System? Does it live up to the hype?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> What do you think of the Klipsch THX Ultra2 System? Does it live up to the hype?



Well I just got the system wired up today. I still don't have the full set of speakers because one of the LCR's got damaged in shipping and I never received it. But so far I like the punchyness (word?), detail and power of the mains. They are a bit brighter than what I am use to (Martin Logans), but I think they will do rather well behind the screen. I have really good hearing and take hearing tests periodically to make sure I am still hearing good due to the nature of one of my businesses.


Also, the Danley compliments them nicely.


One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up.










Ruben


----------



## YldeSyde

hmmm, is punchiness like the recent new word truthiness? Perhaps you have created another proprietary SMX word ;-) From what I have heard (in the literal sense) Klipsch speakers tend to be a bit bright...at least to my ears. Hopefully, as you say, the screen will help that out a bit.


----------



## BasementBob

Something to test brightness with is "Pearl Harbour" at 90 minutes 11 seconds through 18 seconds. The bullets hitting the bridge can be alarmingly sharp on a bright speaker.


----------



## bpape

Nah. I'd just build another false column in the middle of the back wall and stand it up...


And yes - the Klipsch coupled with the Crowns - I could see why they may sound bright.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I'm tellin' ya, Ruben, you really need to consider a good receiver as a pre-pro. I got my Pioneer Elite 84 and I love it. A breeze to setup, 4 HDMI inputs (w/1080p capability so you coud run your lumagen through it when you upgrade to a 1080p projector) and loads of features that the true pre-pros can't touch. I'm sure its not as "high quality" as something like an Anthem pre-pro but for HT duty it sure seems to do the job pretty well.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm tellin' ya, Ruben, you really need to consider a good receiver as a pre-pro. I got my Pioneer Elite 84 and I love it. A breeze to setup, 4 HDMI inputs (w/1080p capability so you coud run your lumagen through it when you upgrade to a 1080p projector) and loads of features that the true pre-pros can't touch. I'm sure its not as "high quality" as something like an Anthem pre-pro but for HT duty it sure seems to do the job pretty well.



I went with the Outlaw 990 because people were comparing it to the Lexicon MC-12. I even spoke to a couple people that had it and loved it that previously owned Lexicon.


I just didn't realize that I needed a monitor to get it set up. That kind of pissed me off. But it has all the switching capabilities I need as well as a real good processor with 8 balanced outputs and 2 sub outputs. The Pioneer doesn't have balanced outputs and I don't know if it does 2 subs or not. Plus, none of my equipment is HDMI, it is all DVI or component. Even the Lumagen is all DVI and component. I would need allot of converters.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

DVI is a subset of HDMI, so you don't really need HDMI unless you want the audio to piggyback on the same cable - something I recommend against personally.


Ruben, did you try out the Crowson units? Make a trip out to Sound Advice and try out the D-BOX Quest system they have there?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bpape* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nah. I'd just build another false column in the middle of the back wall and stand it up...
> 
> 
> And yes - the Klipsch coupled with the Crowns - I could see why they may sound bright.



I wish I could, but the soffit is to close to the platform just like the stage. Plus the projector is on the bottom middle of the soffit which makes it even more impossible to stand a Danley sub there.


As far as brightness of the Klipsch system, it is pretty close to my Genelecs. They are not obviously bright, but are brighter than the Logans which were transparent. The logans give me great transparent music but don't give me any punch like I am getting now with the Klipsch. I think I finally found what I'm looking for but can't tell you for sure until my system is complete, but we're getting there!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DVI is a subset of HDMI, so you don't really need HDMI unless you want the audio to piggyback on the same cable - something I recommend against personally.
> 
> 
> Ruben, did you try out the Crowson units? Make a trip out to Sound Advice and try out the D-BOX Quest system they have there?



Hi Mike, not yet, I just read your PM as well, the Sound Advice in Boca really doesn't have much to offer. They have 2 mediocre theater rooms that are about as good as Circuit City's theater room. However, they have Meridian and Crestron there. I went there 2 weeks ago and saw nothing new in the theater dept. I have no clue who set's up these theater rooms out here, but they sure do a crappy job. They have the worst ISF calibrated rooms I ever seen.


Does Accoustic Innovations carry D-Box? They are the biggest home theater builders/showrooms by my house.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> DVI is a subset of HDMI, so you don't really need HDMI unless you want the audio to piggyback on the same cable - something I recommend against personally.



I always said the same thing. People seem fascinated that audio and video runs together. I always read posts by people misleading other people by saying HDMI has better video quality than DVI.


Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I always said the same thing. People seem fascinated that audio and video runs together. I always read posts by people misleading other people by saying HDMI has better video quality than DVI.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I think the quality is the same (although the flakiness can be higher) but the reason you want the audio to "piggyback" on the HDMI cable is because that is the only way to get the new hi-rez audio formats (DD+, TrueHD, etc.) into a processor right now. That's the only reason I cared about HDMI initially. However, I will say the back of my rack is a lot cleaner with less component and digital audio connections.


Also, I owned a Lexicon before I moved to the Pio Elite as a pre-pro in my last room. I don't think there's any way you could tell the difference (for a movie) between the two.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I just got the system wired up today. I still don't have the full set of speakers because one of the LCR's got damaged in shipping and I never received it. But so far I like the punchyness (word?), detail and power of the mains. They are a bit brighter than what I am use to (Martin Logans), but I think they will do rather well behind the screen. I have really good hearing and take hearing tests periodically to make sure I am still hearing good due to the nature of one of my businesses.
> 
> 
> Also, the Danley compliments them nicely.
> 
> 
> One thing I am not happy about is the Outlaw 990, why is this thing such a PITA to set up? You need an analog monitor hooked up to it just to make some simple settings. There is no on board menu to set it up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Break In. That is what they need. Get some hours on them and all traces of that will completely disappear. It is TOTALLY typical of the Ultra 2's. They will sound flat and a bit forward out of the box but as the compression driver gets some hours on it...it will smooth out and all of a sudden open WAY up. As for the replacement...just got it (Klipsch is running way behind because of huge demand) and it is going out to you tomorrow.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Mike, not yet, I just read your PM as well, the Sound Advice in Boca really doesn't have much to offer. They have 2 mediocre theater rooms that are about as good as Circuit City's theater room. However, they have Meridian and Crestron there. I went there 2 weeks ago and saw nothing new in the theater dept. I have no clue who set's up these theater rooms out here, but they sure do a crappy job. They have the worst ISF calibrated rooms I ever seen.
> 
> 
> Does Accoustic Innovations carry D-Box? They are the biggest home theater builders/showrooms by my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I doubt the rooms at Sound Advice are ISF calibrated. I don't know who in the world would have certified the set-up I saw - maybe Ray Charles, but only for video.


Acoustic Innovations does not carry D-BOX. Here is who you have somewhat near you other than Sound Advice. I am not familiar with Florida's smaller cities so some of these might be a distance:


Digital Lifestyles

1018 E. Las Olas Blvd.

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33312

954-523-2054


Demo System:

Odyssee


Genesis Automation

1095 Shotgun Blvd.

Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33326

954-423-1163

CEDIA Member


Demo System:

Odyssee


All Pro Sound

806 Beverly Parkway

Pensacola, FL 32505

850-432-5780


Demo System:

Quest


Audio Vision South

3655 Henderson Blvd

Tampa, FL 33604

813-871-2989


Demo System:

Odyssee


Music & Cinema Incorporated

14330 Carlson Cir.

Tampa, FL 33626

813-749-8242

CEDIA Member


Demo System:

Odyssee


Armor Systems & Security

242 Blue Juniper Blvd

Venice, FL 34292

941-485-4600


Demo System:

Odyssee


CWB Technologies

3380 Fairlane Farms RD, Suite #1

Wellington, FL 33414

561-798-7010

CEDIA Member


Demo System:

Odyssee


Audio Advisors

2271 Palm Beach Lakes Blvd.

West Palm Beach, FL 33409

561-478-3100

CEDIA Member


Demo System:

Odyssee


There are a couple other "dealers" without any equipment to show, which I personally think is pretty sad, but early on dealers could sign on without a demo unit. Now a demo system is required. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody in Florida who has both Quest and Odyssee in their theater for you to do a good comparison. There are 8 dealers in the US who have both Quest and Odyssee on display in their stores/showrooms, but only one who has all 4 (Quest, Quest X3me, Odyssee vertical integrated, Odyssee platform).







None of them are in FL. One is in Idaho, 2 in CA, 2 in KY, 1 in IN, 1 in OH, 1 in OK.


You really do owe it to yourself to at least look at them before you make a decision on seating. With regards to the Quest seats, there are 3 different series of chairs. I have 2 of them, the series 200 and the series 300 and I strongly prefer the series 300, while my friend Rob prefers the series 200. The series 100 is very similar to the series 300 so if you don't like the comfort of the 300, the 100 is out as well. The difference there is the series 300 has a fabric strip in the middle of the seat cushion and back. I originally thought that wasn't as nice, but I like that it allows the chair to breathe and I don't get a sweaty back during the summer.


----------



## SmX

Thanks Mike,


FT Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Wellington are closest to me.


I will make some calls from the list you supplied.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Few new things...


I had a real low ground noise coming through all the speakers. I traced it down to the Outlaw 990 and found out the DVI input and output are creating a ground loop noise when a DVI cable is hooked up through there. Once I disconnected the DVI wire output from the Outlaw, the ground noise got lower. Once I also disconnected the DVI wire input from the Outlaw, the ground noise completely was gone and everything was perfect. So it looks like I wont be using DVI switch on the Outlaw (one of the main reasons I got it for). I am using high qualiy DVI cables too.


I will be finishing my curved screen tomorrow. I will post some pictures. Today, we filled the hollow aluminum curved screen frame with "Great Stuff" expanding foam to eliminate the possibility of he 2" x 2" frame resonating or rattling.


Also, I had some company over today and we watched War of the Worlds (the rising machines part) and the 2 kids (9 Year old boy and 8 year old girl) ran out of the theater terrified throughout the bass sequence. The older people were wondering what the hell was going on in the theater around that scene. So that made me feel good.










Final thing, The Danley sub ripped a chandelier out of the ceiling upstairs so now I got some more work to do.

























Ruben


----------



## phisch

One of The Big Picture home theater stores by me carries D-Box. They had the system set up in one of their theater rooms. I watched part of LOTR sitting in one of the chairs and it was an amazing experience. I wish that I could afford it for my home theater.


----------



## laststarfighter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Final thing, The Danley sub ripped a chandelier out of the ceiling upstairs so now I got some more work to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben















































something tells me that you won't need two subs.










sucks that you have a ground loop with the outlaw,

what's the component that's connected to that input?

are they plugged into the same power-bar/circuit?

running a jumper wire from the case of the outlaw to the component may/may-not

fix the loop.


hope you find a solution.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laststarfighter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> what's the component that's connected to that input?
> 
> are they plugged into the same power-bar/circuit?
> 
> hope you find a solution.



I agree. It sounds like an uncommon ground between two devices.


Ruben, did you take all of the grounds back to the same place? When I ran live sound for bands in my younger days I actually taped a power cord that ran the full length of the snake. That way I was always ensured the board and effects were always using the same power as the amps. Once I did that I never had ground loop problems again.


Another place a ground loop can occur is with the incoming cable or satellite cables. Make sure you ground them to the same location as the equipment too.


Some of that may or may not help. But I would not blame the outlaw just yet.


Joe


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phisch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One of The Big Picture home theater stores by me carries D-Box. They had the system set up in one of their theater rooms. I watched part of LOTR sitting in one of the chairs and it was an amazing experience. I wish that I could afford it for my home theater.



Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.


D-BOX has done wonders at bringing their price down, but unfortunately most of the cost is mechanical and not in the electronics/computer side so they won't naturally become cheaper over time like computers do. Even with that, the Quest series of seating with motion is fairly reasonable for waht you get and while expensive is at a minimum "attainable" for a large number of people if they make a committment to have motion in their theater. The chairs they come built into are pretty nice as well. While they are built by Jaymar, they are a special run for D-BOX and use substantially better construction that any of the other Jaymar chairs.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. It sounds like an uncommon ground between two devices.
> 
> 
> Ruben, did you take all of the grounds back to the same place? When I ran live sound for bands in my younger days I actually taped a power cord that ran the full length of the snake. That way I was always ensured the board and effects were always using the same power as the amps. Once I did that I never had ground loop problems again.
> 
> 
> Another place a ground loop can occur is with the incoming cable or satellite cables. Make sure you ground them to the same location as the equipment too.
> 
> 
> Some of that may or may not help. But I would not blame the outlaw just yet.
> 
> 
> Joe



Well, it only happens when I plug a DVI cable into the Outlaw 990. Why would a DVI (video only) cable cause a ground issue? When there is no DVI cable plugged into the Outlaw, the Outlaw is silent. When there is one DVI cable plugged In the hum begins and when I plug a second DVI cable in It gets louder.


The 2 DVI devices I was plugging into the Outlaw was the Projector and the HTPC. They are all plugged into a Monster Power conditioner 7000. I didn't have this issue with my B&K 507 before and everything is still the same.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

While it seems odd, pull the cable and/or sat feeds and see if it clears up. It probably won't, but if it does then there is a possibility they are the true culprits. I have seen rare occasions where a buzz was traced back to a component when in fact it was the cable line that was bad. Sometimes a cable signal can get in and work its way through anything connected to it. The cable/sat box might be connected to the cable line, the phone line, the projector/scaler via component or HDMI/DVI and then to the processor via toslink. Toslink will not transmit a bad system hum and so you are totally isolated until you connect something else to the projector that is connected to the processor via a metal wire. Suddenly, the circuit is complete and now the buzz seems like it is coming from one of the components that completes the circuit because it disappears when you pull them, but that only happens because the circuit has been broken and the problem is somewhere else on the chain.


Just because the Outlaw buzzes and the B&K doesn't isn't a reason to say the Outlaw is definitely the problem. The worst offenders I have seen have been cable boxes by far. Satellite is #2 since it almost always has a seperate ground. Nearly all of the cable and sat boxes have toslink connectors to isolate them from the audio side, but they send that contaminated ground through the video connectors and that will eventually tie to your system.


What I will sometimes do is anything that has video on it gets toslink connections only to the processor. Of course, that makes high-res audio hard to do, but that is the trade-off to use cable.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> While it seems odd, pull the cable and/or sat feeds and see if it clears up. It probably won't, but if it does then there is a possibility they are the true culprits. I have seen rare occasions where a buzz was traced back to a component when in fact it was the cable line that was bad. Sometimes a cable signal can get in and work its way through anything connected to it. The cable/sat box might be connected to the cable line, the phone line, the projector/scaler via component or HDMI/DVI and then to the processor via toslink. Toslink will not transmit a bad system hum and so you are totally isolated until you connect something else to the projector that is connected to the processor via a metal wire. Suddenly, the circuit is complete and now the buzz seems like it is coming from one of the components that completes the circuit because it disappears when you pull them, but that only happens because the circuit has been broken and the problem is somewhere else on the chain.
> 
> 
> Just because the Outlaw buzzes and the B&K doesn't isn't a reason to say the Outlaw is definitely the problem. The worst offenders I have seen have been cable boxes by far. Satellite is #2 since it almost always has a seperate ground. Nearly all of the cable and sat boxes have toslink connectors to isolate them from the audio side, but they send that contaminated ground through the video connectors and that will eventually tie to your system.
> 
> 
> What I will sometimes do is anything that has video on it gets toslink connections only to the processor. Of course, that makes high-res audio hard to do, but that is the trade-off to use cable.



Thanks for the info Mike. The only things that are hooked up power or cable wise in my room right now are the HTPC, the Outlaw 990, the PJ and the Monster Power conditioner. Everything else is unplugged because I am rewiring the rack to accommodate the new components. It's really not a big deal to have my Outlaw do my DVI switching anyway, as I have the Lumagen HDQ to do that.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## datobin1

I agree with Mr.Poindexter, cable boxes are often the culprit. In my case I have a grounding strap between my cable box and receiver to reduce the hum. Without it it is just too noise but with it I have to put my ear up to the speaker to hear it.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Well, that makes for easy troubleshooting then. Sure beats some systems I have had to deal with that had in excess of 30 components. Yes, thirty - for a single room!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info Mike. The only things that are hooked up power or cable wise in my room right now are the HTPC, the Outlaw 990, the PJ and the Monster Power conditioner. Everything else is unplugged because I am rewiring the rack to accommodate the new components. It's really not a big deal to have my Outlaw do my DVI switching anyway, as I have the Lumagen HDQ to do that.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Mike said it far more eloquently than I did.










I would still think you might want to isolate the culprit. Because if you don't, you might plug in some other device in the future and the hum will return because right now, you are guaranteed that you have at least one device that is having ground issues.


Although I am really perplexed that you just have the projector, outlaw, and the htpc plugged in to the same conditioner and are getting the loop. Does the monster isolate the grounds between the digital side and the analog side? (My monster has the 2 sides).


Maybe try different outlets while the hum is ocurring and see if it goes away? I am grasping at straws but there might be a bad ground connection inside of the conditioner or the PC power supply.


Joe


----------



## jiujitsu35




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.
> 
> 
> D-BOX has done wonders at bringing their price down, but unfortunately most of the cost is mechanical and not in the electronics/computer side so they won't naturally become cheaper over time like computers do. Even with that, the Quest series of seating with motion is fairly reasonable for waht you get and while expensive is at a minimum "attainable" for a large number of people if they make a committment to have motion in their theater. The chairs they come built into are pretty nice as well. While they are built by Jaymar, they are a special run for D-BOX and use substantially better construction that any of the other Jaymar chairs.



My buddy and I sat on a chair with the D-box at a sound advice in Miami.The sales guy put on X-man the plane part.It was fun at first but after a while we both got sick.I can tell you that if they gave me it for free I would not install it.I just might be one of the few that gets motion sick very easy


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My buddy and I sat on a chair with the D-box at a sound advice in Miami.The sales guy put on X-man the plane part.It was fun at first but after a while we both got sick.I can tell you that if they gave me it for free I would not install it.I just might be one of the few that gets motion sick very easy



I do understand what you are saying, but I have had only one person* get motion sickness on my system and I have had countless people over try it out in the past 3 1/2+ years. I don't think it is easy to visit my house and not get a demo.










One thing to note is that most people only have a few minutes on a D-BOX demo and so the most intense scenes are often used which gives a very different view of what it would be like. Certainly it won't be doing that the whole time, but like demoing a subwoofer with some massive bass tracks, one has to realize that much of the time it won't be doing anything and most of the time it is running it isn't really cranking out stuff that intense.


Sadly, I have not received any of my systems for free and I even purchased one before I was in the home theater business and I still saw the value in it.


For people who get motion sickness, there are two things to look at: first there is a level setting and usually it is set to 10, which is the maximum. I like my system at that level for certain, but if you are one of those who easily gets carsick, I can see where dialing it down to 7 would be better. Also, big video goes hand in hand with that and much of the blame is with the choppy/quick cut nature of video editing these days. They are very disorienting and when added with the motion it puts it over the edge, but you cannot put it all on the motion unless you get the same feeling watching it on a 13" screen. I got that feeling watching a kid play some racing game on the projector once and there was nothing but video and audio set to very low levels. Much like the camerawork in The Blair Witch Project, too much disorientation is a bad thing when shown on the big screen.



----

*Two people actually, but I do not count my wife as she was going through morning sickness at the time and I could just let her smell a specific brand of hand lotion and make her puke. Just the mention of being on a boat was enough to turn her two shades towards green. She has since been on the D-BOX upwards of twenty times and not had even the slightest sickness.


----------



## phisch




> Quote:
> Where is "The Big Picture" located? I haven't heard of them.



There are several of them in Denver metro area where I live, and I've also seen them in Illinois. I believe they are in some other states as well.


----------



## SmX

I posted this in another thread recently but people are still asking about it so I figured I will post It in my home thred as well.


Anyway, someone was wondering what was the blackest velvet/velour to use around a screen frame. Most people used black commando cloth in the past because it rejects light the best. But there is something much better it is called Black Fidelio Velvet. It is not accoustically transparent like GoM or speaker grill cloth, but it is a black hole. Real good uses for It are for movie screen frames, masking, curtains, screen wall, etc.


People wanted to know how black it compares against GoM, Speaker Grill Cloth and Commando cloth so I did a side by side below.


I went out Side and took a picture of the Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth. They are in that order from left to right in the pictures below..


Remember the order is Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth from left to right.


Here are the fabrics side by side in the shade while using a flash on the camera...












Here are the fabrics side by side in direct sun...












They all look about the same blackness..... NOT!










Ruben


----------



## SmX

I will be posting pictures of my completed curved SmX audio transparent screen in a few minutes or so. I trimmed it out with the Black Fidelio Velvet as well.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Ruben, if you want a good use for that Fidelio, here is one:


Open an RPTV set if you have one. Cover all the interior surfaces of the set that are in the light path except the screen, mirror, lenses and vents. (Clean out any dust and windex the mirror while it is open). Reassemble and look at the difference. You may want to run AVIA or DVE again to make sure it is tweaked properly. You will have a much improved contrast and the TV will reject light hitting it better as less light coming into the box will make it back out.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, if you want a good use for that Fidelio, here is one:
> 
> 
> Open an RPTV set if you have one. Cover all the interior surfaces of the set that are in the light path except the screen, mirror, lenses and vents. (Clean out any dust and windex the mirror while it is open). Reassemble and look at the difference. You may want to run AVIA or DVE again to make sure it is tweaked properly. You will have a much improved contrast and the TV will reject light hitting it better as less light coming into the box will make it back out.



I have a 62" Toshiba DLP, but I really don't care too much about it to open it up and start gluing this stuff inside, too much work







.


Hey, I'm suprised you didn't pull out the checker board again, like when we were comparing the SmX to the CP2







I don't think anyone can debate about what is darker in this case










Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

No way. That fidelio is the best. I do think that GOM is an option in the comprison shot since GOM isn't chosen for its darkness and nobody would choose GOM to cover a screen frame, but then again it does give an excellent reference point since so many theaters have GOM FR701 on the front wall.


In truth, comparative shots is the only real way to show how dark something is and black vs. black is the best way. Of course, in this test it looks like CRT vs. LCD, D-ILA and DLP.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In truth, comparative shots is the only real way to show how dark something is and black vs. black is the best way. Of course, in this test it looks like CRT vs. LCD, D-ILA and DLP.




Too funny.


----------



## KERMIE

I hate to go back on such a long Thread but these are amazing photos. My question on the these panels is how did you put the fabric on these after they were up on the wall....or....did you take them down and then add fabric.


thanks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updates:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the Bottom Frames without the Fabric in place until tomorrow...


----------



## KERMIE

I figured it out....read along the way you used Heavy Duty Velcro.....


Thanks


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KERMIE* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I hate to go back on such a long Thread but these are amazing photos. My question on the these panels is how did you put the fabric on these after they were up on the wall....or....did you take them down and then add fabric.
> 
> 
> thanks



In the pictures above, the panels on the bottom were just fitted for size before they got wrapped. So those wood frames on the bottom came out and got wrapped and then re-installed using industrial strength velcro to hold them in place. To wrap them we used a combination of 3m spray glue and staples.


Ruben


----------



## Mark Lem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I posted this in another thread recently but people are still asking about it so I figured I will post It in my home thred as well.
> 
> 
> Anyway, someone was wondering what was the blackest velvet/velour to use around a screen frame. Most people used black commando cloth in the past because it rejects light the best. But there is something much better it is called Black Fidelio Velvet. It is not accoustically transparent like GoM or speaker grill cloth, but it is a black hole. Real good uses for It are for movie screen frames, masking, curtains, screen wall, etc.
> 
> 
> People wanted to know how black it compares against GoM, Speaker Grill Cloth and Commando cloth so I did a side by side below.
> 
> 
> I went out Side and took a picture of the Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth. They are in that order from left to right in the pictures below..
> 
> 
> Remember the order is Black Fidelio Velvet, Black Speaker Grill Cloth, Black GoM and Black Commando Cloth from left to right.
> 
> 
> Here are the fabrics side by side in the shade while using a flash on the camera...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the fabrics side by side in direct sun...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They all look about the same blackness..... NOT!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I have been looking at screens and some of them have a black velvet (3-4 inches or so) surround that either comes with the screen frame or is an option.


If you get the velvet frame with the screen, do you still need to be concerned with additional blacker than FR701 black around the screen frame?


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark Lem* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been looking at screens and some of them have a black velvet (3-4 inches or so) surround that either comes with the screen frame or is an option.
> 
> 
> If you get the velvet frame with the screen, do you still need to be concerned with additional blacker than FR701 black around the screen frame?



Not really. The frame will have to deal with overscan and the rest of the wall will not. The frame really does need that degree of blackness while the rest of the screen wall does not and has different priorities, like acoustic transparency.


----------



## coastalb55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will be posting pictures of my completed curved SmX audio transparent screen in a few minutes or so. I trimmed it out with the Black Fidelio Velvet as well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Did you ever post these pictures? I checked your forum also and didn't see them.


----------



## SmX

My Klipsch Ultra 2 THX System.


I am still waiting on my center channel to arrive so I am using my Martin Logan Theater as my center. After one week of using the Klipsch Ultra 2 THX system, I am very very very impressed (without the center channel yet). The detail, smoothness, imaging and SPL the Klipsch system puts out is just plain insane. I have many speakers to compare including lots of Logans, B&W 802ds, Genelecs, Tannoys, etc. and the Klipsch system was the missing link in my theater.


The horns don't sound like typical screechy horns. They are very smooth and unhorn sounding (another new word)







The system has great punch and I think I may take It one step further and pick up 3 Klipsch 12" subs and cross them over to make make LCR full range and get even more punch.


I had a friend over last night that directed allot of major music videos for people like, Lenny Kravitz, Jewel, Limp Biskit, Shaggy, etc and she has spent countless hours in studios mixing surround for movies and videos she directed.


We both love City Of God which is an incredible Foreign Film with allot of well mixed percussion so I picked up Tsotsi which is a new similar Film but not as good. However Tsotsi had a really good percussion soundtrack as well which really showed off the Klipsch system.


My friend was in total awe. She had never been in a theater with such a great sound system and picture and it totally moved her. She said she never sat in a theater and felt like she was in the actual movie until last night. She had been in other home and commercial theaters including some famous movie producers and said that mine completely blew them away. This morning she was on the phone calling all her friends telling them about her incredible movie experience in my theater last night. So that was a feel good accomplishment










We also watched ATL which was a horrible film. However, the soundtrack had allot of good Rap in it and there was one scene outside a club that had some real low bass that reminded me of the War of the Worlds scene with the machines rising out the ground. That scene really made The Danley shine.


As you know, sound is a very important part of your movie going experience so pick and choose your system carefully. Before I was very dissapointed with my Martin Logan system in the theater even though I love my Martin Logan system In my other room. Before, I really didn't care to watch movies in my theater due to the lack of sound. Now I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before.


Ruben


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Bingo. That's how you know you're 'there.' ^_^


----------



## indygreg

what, ruben is not building his speakers? after all that construction expertise? get some very high quality 1" compression drivers like TAD's (last i looked klipsch was not using a high end 1"), some 90 x 60 horns, some 6 1/2" drivers and some baltic birch. plug the theil-small parameters into a spreadsheet to get our box and port dimensions. screw the passive crossovers (those are for whimps anyway). get some dbx driveracks to drive the whole thing with those cool pro crown amps you have.


come on ruben. you can do it. we'll all watch. (picture the life cereal commercial with mikey).










greg


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indygreg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what, ruben is not building his speakers? after all that construction expertise? get some very high quality 1" compression drivers like TAD's (last i looked klipsch was not using a high end 1"), some 90 x 60 horns, some 6 1/2" drivers and some baltic birch. plug the theil-small parameters into a spreadsheet to get our box and port dimensions. screw the passive crossovers (those are for whimps anyway). get some dbx driveracks to drive the whole thing with those cool pro crown amps you have.
> 
> 
> come on ruben. you can do it. we'll all watch. (picture the life cereal commercial with mikey).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greg



Nah, no more building for me for a while. The Klipsch is what I needed.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coastalb55* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you ever post these pictures? I checked your forum also and didn't see them.



I went to take some final pictures, and my new camera started making a popping noise when I tried to use the flash. Then made a big pop inside along with series of small pops. After that I pulled the battery out and took the lens off and it smelt like fresh garlic inside. WTF? So I need to send it in to be fixed or replaced.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nah, no more building for me for a while. The Klipsch is what I needed.
> 
> 
> Ruben



What, no aquarium?










Joe


----------



## jiujitsu35

Ruben,I just wanted to know how the outlaw 990 was sounding.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jiujitsu35* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,I just wanted to know how the outlaw 990 was sounding.




So far, so good. I been running Pro Logic 2 on my movies. I haven't really done much more experimenting with it. It sounds good to me. The only problem is the DVI switching in it causes a hum to your audio. It may be something in my system but I am no longer using the Outlaw for DVI switching.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What, no aquarium?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Aquarium shall come, just not as soon as I thought.


Ruben


----------



## advertguy2

ProLogic II for movies? Why not DD? Am I missing something by using DD rather than Pro Logic II? That just doesn't make sense to me...


----------



## RolfHult

In an 7.1 configuration, DPL IIx is the way to go.


----------



## bpape

Yup. Sounds like you're there.


Be careful doing the subs in the front and doing full range. You can cause all kinds of cancellation issues due to all the different sub locations. Part of why you cross them over is to be able to move the sub into optimal bass position without having to move the mains.


If you're still wanting more, I'd do one in the back - though it would be visible. Maybe Tom Danley would make you a mini-DTS










Bryan


----------



## FoeHammer865




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RolfHult* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In an 7.1 configuration, DPL IIx is the way to go.



Are you serious?














I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.


Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.


Thanks


TREVOR


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FoeHammer865* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.
> 
> 
> Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> TREVOR



The little x at the end makes all the difference. Otherwise, you're left with 5.1 material and two speakers in back with no sound. It matrix processes the left and right sides and sends it to the rears to make faux 7.1 out of 5.1 sounds.


It works pretty well really.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FoeHammer865* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never heard this. Can anyone else coroberate this? I assume this must have been discussed on AVS.
> 
> 
> Any info as to where it was discussed would be great.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> TREVOR



From the Outlaw 990 Manual

*Dolby Digital EX® and Pro Logic IIx®**

Dolby Digital decoding delivers 5.1-channel digital surround sound from

DVD, satellite, cable and digital TV sources. EX adds an additional rearsurround

channel. Pro Logic IIx converts stereo sound to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1

channels, and also converts 5.1 sources to 7.1.


----------



## sdurani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *advertguy2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ProLogic II for movies? Why not DD? Am I missing something by using DD rather than Pro Logic II? That just doesn't make sense to me...



You may be confusing two different types of technologies. DD is a lossy compression codec (like MP3 or DTS). It can be any number of channels from 1 to 5.1, and is used to reduce the amount of data in order to save storage space. PLII is surround processing technology (like Neo:6 or Circle Surround). It is used to convert 2-channel material to surround. It doesn't matter if that 2-channel material is PCM, SACD, DVD-A, analogue, DD, etc.


Both technologies are often used together. If you're watching an old movie on digital cable or on DVD, it may have a 2-channel Dolby Digital track (DD 2.0). You can apply PLII to the DD soundtrack to convert it to surround sound. PLII only works with 2-channel material and is limited to a maximum of 5 output channels.


For 7.1 systems, Dolby came up with PLII_x_, which is an e_X_tension (not improvement) of PLII technology. PLII_x_ can work with 2-channel or 5.1-channel material, converting both to upto 7.1 channels. Each of the four surround speakers getting an independent signal (no dual-mono rears like EX/ES decoding).


Just like with PLII processing, PLII_x_ isn't used instead of DD or DTS, it is applied to DD or DTS soundtracks. They're complementary, not competing, technologies.


If you configure your receiver for 5 speakers, you won't see PLII_x_ as an option amongst the choice of surround modes. You'll only see various PLII options. However, if you configure your receiver for 6 or 7 speakers, the PLII modes will be hidden and you'll now be able to choose from the various PLII_x_ modes.


Sanjay


----------



## SmX

Here are some pictures of the final curved SmX screen with the black velvet trimming. I had no working flash to take these shots so this is as good as they get for now.





























Look how black this black fidelio velvet is. There is a black hole underneath the screen but the human eye cannot see the difference between the black hole and the black fidelio velvet with light hitting it. It is amazing, talk about a black hole.











Here is the hole..


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sdurani* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You may be confusing two different types of technologies. DD is a lossy compression codec (like MP3 or DTS). It can be any number of channels from 1 to 5.1, and is used to reduce the amount of data in order to save storage space. PLII is surround processing technology (like Neo:6 or Circle Surround). It is used to convert 2-channel material to surround. It doesn't matter if that 2-channel material is PCM, SACD, DVD-A, analogue, DD, etc.
> 
> 
> Both technologies are often used together. If you're watching an old movie on digital cable or on DVD, it may have a 2-channel Dolby Digital track (DD 2.0). You can apply PLII to the DD soundtrack to convert it to surround sound. PLII only works with 2-channel material and is limited to a maximum of 5 output channels.
> 
> 
> For 7.1 systems, Dolby came up with PLII_x_, which is an e_X_tension (not improvement) of PLII technology. PLII_x_ can work with 2-channel or 5.1-channel material, converting both to upto 7.1 channels. Each of the four surround speakers getting an independent signal (no dual-mono rears like EX/ES decoding).
> 
> 
> Just like with PLII processing, PLII_x_ isn't used instead of DD or DTS, it is applied to DD or DTS soundtracks. They're complementary, not competing, technologies.
> 
> 
> If you configure your receiver for 5 speakers, you won't see PLII_x_ as an option amongst the choice of surround modes. You'll only see various PLII options. However, if you configure your receiver for 6 or 7 speakers, the PLII modes will be hidden and you'll now be able to choose from the various PLII_x_ modes.
> 
> 
> Sanjay



Awesome explanation, thanks!


Ruben


----------



## chinadog

Pretty sweet Ruben!


Bud


----------



## jmorris644

Yes, that is really awesome!!


Joe


----------



## swithey

Awesome does not begin to describe this screen. I love the black fidelio velvet -- I'm definitely using that on my DIY SMX screen. Great job Ruben!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Awesome does not begin to describe this screen. I love the black fidelio velvet -- I'm definitely using that on my DIY SMX screen. Great job Ruben!



Thanks. Yes that fidelio velvet is truely incredible. It is so black, it messes with your eyes when you are trying to look at it. I think I'm going to mask my wall with curtains using it above, below and on the sides of the screen. Then it will really give you the effect that the SmX screen is hovering over a black hole.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, that is really awesome!!
> 
> 
> Joe




Thanks Joe, It was well worth the wait.










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pretty sweet Ruben!
> 
> 
> Bud




Thanks Bud, I been checking out your thread and I love your ticket booth. I'm doing mine next and will be following your plans.


Ruben


----------



## indygreg

what would you think of using the velvet on the starfield ceiling? would it add any value there?


greg


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indygreg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what would you think of using the velvet on the starfield ceiling? would it add any value there?
> 
> 
> greg



I thought of that already. It would be incredible, however if you are doing a light tray don't expect to see any light up there. This will suck the life out of your lights in your light trays. The nice thing about the GoM on the ceiling is that it still reflects light enough to make the lights in the light tray glow.


Ruben


----------



## griplimited

I think I may have to invite myself over unannounced. Good job on the screen. BTW, love the sub-zero fridges and the faux walls are looking great, give a thumbs up to the painter from us if he hasn't finished and left yet.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *griplimited* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I may have to invite myself over unannounced. Good job on the screen. BTW, love the sub-zero fridges and the faux walls are looking great, give a thumbs up to the painter from us if he hasn't finished and left yet.



Much Thanks. The Faux painter is still painting, I will let him know







. BTW, those are Traulsen Fridges they hold allot of food and keep it cold but they are high maintenance.


Ruben


----------



## phisch

Hi Ruben


That screen really looks great. I just picked up on your thread and you probably already mentioned it, but I was wondering how you attached the vevet trim and the screen material to the frame?


----------



## Mark P

Oh so nice, glad to see you got re-motivated.


I know how pictures can ruin how fantastic things are when actually standing there, so I'll bet your room is probably one of the finest ever built.


Congrats, you worked hard


----------



## reaper

Superb looking screen. Awesome job. Great to see some more images in this thread again.


If anyone has time to entertain a dumb question, I'd appreciate some insight. I don't quite understand how a curved screen works. It seems to me that projectors are designed to produce a rectangular image on a flat screen at a given aspect ratio. Making the screen curved would change the aspect ratio wouldn't it? Or if you take that into account and build it so that the screen is still 2.35:1 or 16:9 from a front view, then you have a curve and it seems as though it would distort the image. What am I missing? Does a curved screen require a special lense?


While I am at it, what's the benefit of a curved screen? Better viewing angle for people on the side seats?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Amazing looking screen Ruben.


Reaper - there are more thorough answers, but the curve is to cancel out the impact of a anamorphic lense which will cause the picture to bow out a bit as it stretches (or compresses) 16:9 into 2.35. The type and quality of the lense, and the setup (length of throw) will dictate how severe these distortions are.


Besides, it looks cool.


----------



## mastiff34

Simply awesome, just awesome, great work!


----------



## FoeHammer865

Posted by Sandman: "From the Outlaw 990 Manual


Dolby Digital EX® and Pro Logic IIx®*

Dolby Digital decoding delivers 5.1-channel digital surround sound from

DVD, satellite, cable and digital TV sources. EX adds an additional rearsurround

channel. Pro Logic IIx converts stereo sound to 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1

channels, and also converts 5.1 sources to 7.1."


Thanks for the explanation guys. I was aware of how PL IIx took two channel sources to 7.1 (vs PL II going 2 to 5.1), but never realized or it never clicked in my head that it was used on 5.1 sources as well, such as DTS and DD to up convert to 7.1.


This is kinda embarrasing for me because I have always thought of myself as staying up on new tech and such and way ahead of most of my friends when it comes to HT.


Guess there's always somehting to learn.
























Ok, Sorry for taking this off topic.


TREVOR


----------



## AMD RULES

Hello. I joined after seeing this thread and being so amazed by it!

wow. What a home theater!









can't wait to see the final product


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FoeHammer865* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is kinda embarrasing for me because I have always thought of myself as staying up on new tech and such and way ahead of most of my friends when it comes to HT.
> 
> 
> TREVOR



Hey, it's all relative. Go ask your friends the question. I bet you are still ahead of them even though you found out 2 years after it was available.










Joe


----------



## reaper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Amazing looking screen Ruben.
> 
> 
> Reaper - there are more thorough answers, but the curve is to cancel out the impact of a anamorphic lense which will cause the picture to bow out a bit as it stretches (or compresses) 16:9 into 2.35. The type and quality of the lense, and the setup (length of throw) will dictate how severe these distortions are.
> 
> 
> Besides, it looks cool.



OK, so that makes sense then... you have a projector designed to throw a 16:9 image. You modify that design with a special lense. That lens introduces some distortion. This screen helps to minimize that distortion. Good enough to me.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Reaper,


They also help reduce hotspotting and color drift in higher gain screens, which was more necessary in the old CRT days than it is today. It cuts down light loss from the edges by keeping far seats inside the main viewing cone.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Thanks Mike, I knew there was a more complete answer out there.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

TORUS screens do an even better job video-wise, but they create a massive audio problem at the focal point since it becomes a reflective dish on both the horizontal and vertical axis.


In today's market, most people (new buyers) go with a curved screen because it looks cool and/or to remove pincushion distortion when using an anamorphic lens.


----------



## indygreg

the screen really looks great and i really like the proportion in the room. i keep looking at the earlier stage shots and thinking how much it looks like an actual theater my parents used to own that had a cinerama screen in it.


i missed earlier in the thread where you told the final screen dimensions.


EDIT - i see a post now WAY back that says you were testing 122 x 53. looks like that is what you ended up with. i also see all the posts where you found the screen material locally but i was not able to find where you actually told what it was.


greg


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indygreg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what, ruben is not building his speakers? after all that construction expertise? get some very high quality 1" compression drivers like TAD's (last i looked klipsch was not using a high end 1"), some 90 x 60 horns, some 6 1/2" drivers and some baltic birch. plug the theil-small parameters into a spreadsheet to get our box and port dimensions. screw the passive crossovers (those are for whimps anyway). get some dbx driveracks to drive the whole thing with those cool pro crown amps you have.
> 
> 
> come on ruben. you can do it. we'll all watch. (picture the life cereal commercial with mikey).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> greg



Actually, the compression driver in the THX Ultra 2 sats is a very high end 1" Titanium dome compresson drivers that is directly based on the big Uber Pro Cinema KPT-MCM Grande driver (don't get any ideas Rubin...three of them are a tad under seventeen FEET wide placed side by side...really they WON'T FIT!). They are WAY overspec'd for home use. They are one of the smoothest and most musical compression drivers I've ever used. As for an active setup...hmmm...active THX Ultra 2's would be pretty darned cool, but you'd have to do a lot of crossover tweaking. Took Klipsch nearly 5 years of development work to get the KL-650's right. Honestly...if you look at the description of your ideal speaker above, you have essentially active Ultra 2's since they have the heavy cabinetry (ask Rubin about the enclosures on the KL-650's), the high end compression drivers and twin 6.5" woofers. You also have a horn design that has been refined for over 60 years in home and commercial use...including a pretty seriously high percentage of big commercial theater installations. Matter of fact, there is a large theatrical installation company who does about 60% of the top end multi-million dollar pro cinema installs in the U.S. and they have started using the Ultra 2 system in some of their smaller commercial theater venues. Theyconsider it the best sounding pro cinema system they offer (including a $1.5 million dollar package). These are some serious iron folks, not be be dismissed because they say Klipsch on them.


"Now I want to re-watch all my favorite movies all over again to see what I was missing before." Kinda sez it all!


Oh...and the screen looks WAY cool dude!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phisch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben
> 
> 
> That screen really looks great. I just picked up on your thread and you probably already mentioned it, but I was wondering how you attached the vevet trim and the screen material to the frame?



Thanks. I used a special 2" wide velcro to attach the screen to the frame, and then wrapped the wood trim with the black fidelio velvet using contact cement. I attached the wrapped wood trim to the front of the screen by screwing the long screws from the back of the frame to pull the trim against the front of it.


I also filled The 2" aluminum hollow frame with "Great Stuff" expanding foam/insulation.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh so nice, glad to see you got re-motivated.
> 
> 
> I know how pictures can ruin how fantastic things are when actually standing there, so I'll bet your room is probably one of the finest ever built.
> 
> 
> Congrats, you worked hard



Not as nice as yours but perfect for me! Call me sometime, it's been months, I lost your #!


Ruben


----------



## CollinViegas

Ruben, this may have been asked but...


How wide are you columns at there widest point which I guess is the MDF used at the back behind the round pillars? And how well do the Klipsch surrounds fit into the pillars?


Thanks.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *reaper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Superb looking screen. Awesome job. Great to see some more images in this thread again.
> 
> 
> If anyone has time to entertain a dumb question, I'd appreciate some insight. I don't quite understand how a curved screen works. It seems to me that projectors are designed to produce a rectangular image on a flat screen at a given aspect ratio. Making the screen curved would change the aspect ratio wouldn't it? Or if you take that into account and build it so that the screen is still 2.35:1 or 16:9 from a front view, then you have a curve and it seems as though it would distort the image. What am I missing? Does a curved screen require a special lense?
> 
> 
> While I am at it, what's the benefit of a curved screen? Better viewing angle for people on the side seats?



Thanks Reaper,


There is really no benefit doing a curved screen with the SmX AT material. The SmX material has a 160 degree consistant image veiwing cone from edge to edge with no hot spotting.


I first wanted to do the SmX curved screen for the coolness factor. Then I got an ISCO lens to give me a wider picture and to be able to use all my resolution on my PJ. I had a short throw with the ISCO 2 lens so I got some decent pincushion (hour glass shape). The curved screen eliminated the pincushion because it brings the left and right of the screen forward (makes side images smaller) and the center of the screen back (makes center image bigger) thus reversing the pincushion.


I got the screen radius by measuring the distance between the lens and the screen. This worked perfect for me. I know there is a big formula to do this, but my formula worked perfect as well.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Amazing looking screen Ruben.
> 
> 
> Besides, it looks cool.



Thanks, coolness is always a good factor in my book










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Simply awesome, just awesome, great work!




Thanks!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AMD RULES* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello. I joined after seeing this thread and being so amazed by it!
> 
> wow. What a home theater!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> can't wait to see the final product



Thank You.

Welcome to AVS and thanks for joining based on my amazing thread!










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indygreg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the screen really looks great and i really like the proportion in the room. i keep looking at the earlier stage shots and thinking how much it looks like an actual theater my parents used to own that had a cinerama screen in it.
> 
> 
> i missed earlier in the thread where you told the final screen dimensions.
> 
> 
> EDIT - i see a post now WAY back that says you were testing 122 x 53. looks like that is what you ended up with. i also see all the posts where you found the screen material locally but i was not able to find where you actually told what it was.
> 
> 
> greg



Thanks. I am working on the screen wall now to follow the radius of the screen. I should have that completed by next week with the black fidelio curtains.


My curved SmX screen is 142.25" x 59" or roughly 12 feet x 5 feet. 2.35:1. Yes it is bigger than what the consensus recommends. If I went by the book, I would end up having a 62" screen in there which would not work well with me.


I sit about 16' from the 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. I had a 10 foot wide screen in there before which was great, but it is much much much better now (more movie like).


The material is SmX material and you can learn more about it here...
www.smxscreen.com/ 


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, the compression driver in the THX Ultra 2 sats is a very high end 1" Titanium dome compresson drivers that is directly based on the big Uber Pro Cinema KPT-MCM Grande driver (don't get any ideas Rubin...three of them are a tad under seventeen FEET wide placed side by side...really they WON'T FIT!).
> 
> 
> You have essentially active Ultra 2's since they have the heavy cabinetry (ask Rubin about the enclosures on the KL-650's).
> 
> 
> Oh...and the screen looks WAY cool dude!



Thanks,


I got another 3 feet to widen the theater if needed










The construction of the klipschs are solid as a rock.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I went by the book, I would end up having a 62" screen in there which would not work well with me.
> 
> 
> I sit about 16' from the 12' wide 2.35:1 screen. I had a 10 foot wide screen in there before which was great, but it is much much much better now (more movie like).
> 
> 
> Ruben



Its awesome aint it? I found it sort of strange how small everyone makes their screens but I think the " gurus" have some formula for what " they" like and patent it as gospel. I am guessing it has to do with seeing pixels and can agree it drives me crazy to see pixels but most folks that come over can hardly see them when you stand next to the screen and point them out


I say big, fat, and impressionable when people walk in, as well as watch a movie. When you go to the theater the screen takes up the entire wall, why not in a home theater? Size constraints? viewing cones? Blah, get out the sledge hammer.


I cant quite get a picture to turn out but there are Doormers with 6' x 8' windows back about 5' from the screen and at night time when a movie is playing and you are several hundred feet from the house it is really amusing looking at the theater room with the blackouts up. I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

MarkP, we agree on something again! I am tired of the "sit X screen widths back" formula that applies to everything and everyone. I routinely ask people where in a theater they sit and base their primary seats on that. I like to sit closer up, so I went really big on the screen. If somebody likes to sit in the back, then I adjust for that.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights



I bet it is your IB sub that they are hearing!


----------



## AMD RULES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank You.
> 
> Welcome to AVS and thanks for joining based on my amazing thread!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



np. Great job man









Cant wait to see the finished product


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its awesome aint it? I found it sort of strange how small everyone makes their screens but I think the " gurus" have some formula for what " they" like and patent it as gospel. I am guessing it has to do with seeing pixels and can agree it drives me crazy to see pixels but most folks that come over can hardly see them when you stand next to the screen and point them out
> 
> 
> I say big, fat, and impressionable when people walk in, as well as watch a movie. When you go to the theater the screen takes up the entire wall, why not in a home theater? Size constraints? viewing cones? Blah, get out the sledge hammer.
> 
> 
> I cant quite get a picture to turn out but there are Doormers with 6' x 8' windows back about 5' from the screen and at night time when a movie is playing and you are several hundred feet from the house it is really amusing looking at the theater room with the blackouts up. I bet the neighbors 1/2 mile away wonder what is wrong with with our mental state. I have already been informed they can hear it on calm nights



All the movie theaters I go to, I usually sit one screen width away from the screen which is usually in the middle of the theater. THX standards are what, 1.5 - 2 screen widths from the screen to seats? Are those standards only for Home Theater or do they apply to THX certified movie houses to?


Ruben


----------



## DenW

AFAIK a seating distance of 1.5-2 x screen width is not a defined standard\\formula but more like a rule of thumb, brought on with digital projectors with limited resolution and visible pixel structure.

With DLP projectors, i've seen recommended seating distances of 1.2 or even less, while for LCD projectors the seating distance normally remains at 1.5 to 2 (because of screendoor).

Resolution is also a factor here, and if you have a high resolution projector (>720 px.) there is nothing to keep you from getting closer to the screen (personal preference also comes into play here).


So as digital projectors become better and better, seating distance will be more and more a non-issue and more to do with personal preference.


In a movie theater with analog projection you have infinite pixels, thus infinite seating distance (i.e. from 0 to anything theoretically). With digital projection (4K pixels) the resolution is high enough to not be an issue (res. is larger than the human eye can discern).


I don't think there is a THX standard for seating distance, but i'm not sure about that.


Please correct me if i'm wrong about any of this...


----------



## dc_pilgrim

THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading. Made me bust out the trig to figure out what my screen-size "should" be in my long delayed theater.


----------



## sdurani




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles.



You can have THX and SMPTE recommendations for screen size vs viewing distance calculated for you automatically instead of busting out the trig. Check it out:

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.c...alculator.html 


Sanjay


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Thanks for finding the link Sanjay. I used the trig because that site didn't do 2.35 aspect ratios.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading. Made me bust out the trig to figure out what my screen-size "should" be in my long delayed theater.



Notice that image specifies _maximum_ distances, not minimums. The ones people talk about that recommend minimums are based on the poor resolution (and scan lines) associated with home viewing devices. In the end, its a personal preference related to your wishes and the capabilities of your display.


----------



## JRod0802




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DenW* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a movie theater with analog projection you have infinite pixels, thus infinite seating distance (i.e. from 0 to anything theoretically). With digital projection (4K pixels) the resolution is high enough to not be an issue (res. is larger than the human eye can discern).
> 
> ...
> 
> Please correct me if i'm wrong about any of this...



Do you mean 4M pixels? 4 thousand seems kind of low. I am kind of new to this, so I could be completely wrong too.











Oh, and seeing as though this is my first post in this thread... Great Job Ruben, I've been following this thread since early November.


----------



## FusionRx

Nope, he is right.. newest digital projectors are 4k x4k projectors I think.


----------



## JRod0802




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope, he is right.. newest digital projectors are 4k x4k projectors I think.



Oh, i get it. I thought he meant 4K total, but I guess that is 16M pixels total. Thats about 16 times more then my home TV. I wonder why they chose a 1:1 ratio of pixels, and not 2.35:1.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

The new D-Cinema projectors are 2048x1080. There are some 4K LCoS/SXRD panels that are 4096x2160.


----------



## DenW

I think Texas Instr. has a DLP projector for cinema's that's 4K. Sony has one also:
http://www.cine4home.com/reviews/pro...K/SRX-R110.htm


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

TI does not have a 4K resolution chip that I have heard of. They certainly are not shipping a 4K resolution product.


----------



## FusionRx

Ruben,


I saw an article where someone as obsessed with detail as you, actually bought a 'powder coater' and re-did all their fronts of the components to one color.... You ever thought about doing the same? (recalling your post talking about how many black and silver components you had)


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I saw an article where someone as obsessed with detail as you, actually bought a 'powder coater' and re-did all their fronts of the components to one color.... You ever thought about doing the same? (recalling your post talking about how many black and silver components you had)



Nah, I'm not that obsessed (where can I get the powder coater from)?










Ruben


----------



## SmX

I got 2 Crowson Tactiles in on Friday and installed them on 2 chairs. They are nice, but you would need 2 per chair on my chairs because they only shake one arm and a little of the seat. They were a breeze to install but they are made to put one tactile under one corner of the chair and 3 hockey pucks on the other 3 corners. The problem is that the chair has more motion on the arm the crowson is under than anything else.


So the most effective way I see is to put 1 Crowson under each arm. My back row will have 4 chairs with 5 arms and the front row will have 3 chairs with 4 arms.


Now onto powering them. I need your help on this...


I have 4 Crown XT1 1000 amps that I am using 7 channels on for the L,C,R, Surrounds and Back Surrounds. So 1 channel on the Xti 1000 is not in use.


I also have one Crown XTi 4000 that I use one channel of to power my Danley Sub.


I was thinking about throwing my center channel on the XTi 4000 open channel and cutting the power down on it to free up both channels on one of the Xti 1000 amps.


Then Bridge it to get 1,000 watts into 8 ohms and run 7 or 9 Crowsons in parallel (which are 6 ohms) The Minimum recommended power to the Crowsons are 50 watts RMS and max 500 Watts RMS.


Or I can Bridge the XTi 1000 to get 1,000 watts into 8 ohms and hook that up to the Danley. Then use the one channel of the XTi 4000 for the Crowsons which would be 1,200 watts into 4 ohms.


Here are the specs on the Xti 1000

1 kHz Power

2 ohm Stereo (per channel) 700W*

4 ohm Stereo (per channel) 500W

8 ohm Stereo (per channel) 275W

4 ohm Bridge-Mono 1,400W*

8- ohm Bridge-Mono 1,000W

*With 1% THD.




Here are the specs on the XTi 4000

1 kHz Power

2 ohm Stereo (per channel) 1,600W*

4 ohm Stereo (per channel) 1,200W

8 ohm Stereo (per channel) 650W

4 ohm Bridge-Mono 3,200W*

8- ohm Bridge-Mono 2,400W

*With 1% THD.


Thanks for your help,

Ruben


----------



## Soundood

I wouldn't bridge the XTi-1000 for the Sub. When you bridge an amp, you halve the damping factor and thus the control. Since you are fine on the horsepower and output power, you don't want to give up control. I'd use the other XTi1000 channel for the center (again, you have plenty of power there) and the remaining 4000 channel for the shakers.


My experience with the Crowsons is that you want to put them under the body of the chair if you are getting too much arm shaking. If you look under your chair, there is often a connection point between the arm and body...or the body may have feet as well. That is where I put them. If you need more than 1 shaker per seat and you can't make it work with one, then I'd go to Clarks bolted to the frame of the chair in the middle with isolation feet under each chair. The Crowsons are good but they do depend on your seat being structurally very solid or they won't be anywhere near as effective as Clarks (or Buttkickers) bolted solidly to the body of the seat.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bridge the XTi-1000 for the Sub. When you bridge an amp, you halve the damping factor and thus the control. Since you are fine on the horsepower and output power, you don't want to give up control. I'd use the other XTi1000 channel for the center (again, you have plenty of power there) and the remaining 4000 channel for the shakers.
> 
> 
> My experience with the Crowsons is that you want to put them under the body of the chair if you are getting too much arm shaking. If you look under your chair, there is often a connection point between the arm and body...or the body may have feet as well. That is where I put them. If you need more than 1 shaker per seat and you can't make it work with one, then I'd go to Clarks bolted to the frame of the chair in the middle with isolation feet under each chair. The Crowsons are good but they do depend on your seat being structurally very solid or they won't be anywhere near as effective as Clarks (or Buttkickers) bolted solidly to the body of the seat.




Thanks. Do you think I should throw the center channel on the open XTi 4000 Channel and Bridge an XTi 1000 for the Crowsons?


Ruben


----------



## dreamhost

I noticed the exact same problem when I installed my buttkickers under a chairs leg with the dampeners under each of the other legs. I could very easily tell exactly where the buttkicker was and the effect wasn't all that pleasing.


I then tried installing the buttkicker directly to the chairs 'cross brace' and that made a little difference but still was nowhere as transparent as I was expecting.


Finally I built a low profile riser, see signature, and the difference was astounding. The entire platform now shakes and you cannot tell where the buttkicker is mounted. I have also been able to demo the buttkickers mounted into a real platform like everyone else here builds and that was even more effective. As my friend has really good subs, nowhere near yours, the buttkickers blend in perfectly with the actual bass in the theater room.


Long story short: I was never able to find a place on the chair itself to mount the buttkicker to that didn't feel localized and quite tacky. A riser application is hands down the only way to go for buttkicker at least.


----------



## SmX

I wonder if I would be better off cuting a couple trap doors into my platform and installing some clarks on the joists. Would that be better even though my platform is not resting on isolators. Any suggestions?


Ruben


----------



## BChap

Ruben,


Been readin your thread (w/jaw open, drooling) for a while. Just awesome, dude. I've had Crowsons for a long time. My buddy works there. I got one couch and one chair w/2 tactiles each and a their little box preamp the preamp makes a big difference.


I know for bigger installs they will do a wiring design - email the amp model, # chairs and arms, they send you a PDF. Some of them get craaazy complicated. He told me they are doing a 52 chair install in Orlando - some Circ de solle kinda thing -with ten 1500watt amps!


-B


----------



## Cam Man




> Quote:
> THX and I believe STMPe (spelling?) dictate horizontal and vertical viewing angles. There are a few threads on this on the site. Generally would probably spell out a smaller screen than we'd like. Here is an image I found in my reading.



That is a useful image. SMPTE specs an "optimum" for a 2.35/2.40 cinema screen at 45 degrees. The THX (pro cinema and home) screen viewing angle specs are not in conflict with this. The THX Certified Home Theater specs require >/= 36 degrees. See this Dolby Tech Library page for some interesting insights (drawn from SMPTE) that address screen specs and also how they relate to speaker positioning. Constant height is even covered a bit. You will notice that the balance of distracting picture artifacts and screen size were considered way back in the fifties and still apply today. We are seeing a rapid evolution of this in the home theater as resolutions, projector lumen output, deinterlacing technologies, scaling, anamorphic lenses, and screens all lend their improvements that will permit larger screen sizes. Fortunately, digital cinema and home theater do not have film projection mechanical artifacts. Still, 45 degrees defines a seating distance 1.2 times the screen width where there's plenty of wow factor, but plenty of visible artifacts. Will 1080p get us to 45 degrees? I'm hoping so. At home we can set the final spec, but it's nice to know the technical roots in the profesional cinema.


Here are two short articles by Tony Grimani that summarize professional industry standards, and discuss briefly translation to the home theater.

Video Standards for Home Theater 

Audio Standards for Home Theater 


Here is a link to the DCI Digital Cinema Standards . Section 8 is what applies to us. Table 11 is particularly helpful. The white chromaticity coordinates that are not D65 compensates for the 5400K lamphouse color (to which the movie is timed).


Ruben, glad to hear you are liking the Klipsch U2 system. Not surprised.


----------



## rking401




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A friend of mine has a pair of these sitting in his garage. I was thinking about picking them up to try them out in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and if they didn't work, I could always go this route...



Wow... amazing project. I just got started on this thread yesterday and came across your post mentioning JBL 4430's today. Here's a picture of them in my living room/home theater a few miles up the road from you. I bought these when I was in the pro audio business many years ago. I have no subwoofer in my system.


I used the 4435's (9 of them?) in an IMAX theater that I designed the sound for many years ago. They were supplemented with 6 18" custom subwoofs.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if I would be better off cuting a couple trap doors into my platform and installing some clarks on the joists. Would that be better even though my platform is not resting on isolators. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yes, much better. I am running 200 watts per transducer and barely turn them up, dont need a chiroprator with this setup using Clark Synthesis ( which are full range and I use EQing to get them down to below 80 hz)


Always put the transducers in the risers for a more dynamic feel, when they are attached to the seats they feel fake, when in the risers they are a real treat


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, much better. I am running 200 watts per transducer and barely turn them up, dont need a chiroprator with this setup using Clark Synthesis ( which are full range and I use EQing to get them down to below 80 hz)
> 
> 
> Always put the transducers in the risers for a more dynamic feel, when they are attached to the seats they feel fake, when in the risers they are a real treat



If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?


Joe


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Amazing looking screen Ruben.
> 
> 
> Reaper - there are more thorough answers, but the curve is to cancel out the impact of a anamorphic lense which will cause the picture to bow out a bit as it stretches (or compresses) 16:9 into 2.35. The type and quality of the lense, and the setup (length of throw) will dictate how severe these distortions are.
> 
> 
> Besides, it looks cool.



It has also been my experiance that on a flat screen the focus of a lens is sharpest at the center of the projected image...


Perhaps the curved screen would help this situation by compensating for the *out-of-focus* condition at the outer edges of the screen?


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?
> 
> 
> Joe



Only if that plywood is on isolators that allow the plywood to float.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Reaper,
> 
> 
> There is really no benefit doing a curved screen with the SmX AT material. The SmX material has a 160 degree consistant image veiwing cone from edge to edge with no hot spotting.
> 
> 
> I first wanted to do the SmX curved screen for the coolness factor. Then I got an ISCO lens to give me a wider picture and to be able to use all my resolution on my PJ. I had a short throw with the ISCO 2 lens so I got some decent pincushion (hour glass shape). The curved screen eliminated the pincushion because it brings the left and right of the screen forward (makes side images smaller) and the center of the screen back (makes center image bigger) thus reversing the pincushion.
> 
> 
> I got the screen radius by measuring the distance between the lens and the screen. This worked perfect for me. I know there is a big formula to do this, but my formula worked perfect as well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, my current projector can be focused very cleanly at the center of the image, but due to the quality of the lens used the result is a softer focus out at the edge...

*Ruben*, with regards to focus (if you can remember the flat screen), did the focus improve towards the edge of the screen when you went to the curved one?


Thanks,


----------



## dreamhost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if I would be better off cuting a couple trap doors into my platform and installing some clarks on the joists. Would that be better even though my platform is not resting on isolators. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Actually you don't want the isolators for a 'real' platform. I only used them because I had to keep my platform very short and close to the floor as to not interfere with my projector sitting on the counter behind my head. I went a bit overboard with the isolators as I have neighbors below me and I was trying everything I could think of to reduce the trasmission through my floor to their ceiling.


For your application check out the following thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=699283


----------



## dreamhost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I don't have a riser would something as simple as 3/4 inch plywood under the whole chair work? With the buttkicker under the plywood?
> 
> 
> Joe



First of all in that application you have to have the plywood isolated from the floor so that it can 'float' with the bass.

I tried at first with my platform putting the buttkicker underneath one of the sides, and then the middle edge, but the effect was no better, if not worse, than when I had them mounted directly to the chairs. I found it much better to mount it directly to the top of the platform in the middle underneath a chair arm.


Check my sig for photo examples as to how I did this.

It's not a perfect scenario, but if you cannot build a 'real' riser then it's the best way that I have found. I spoke extensively with buttkicker over the phone and this was the best scenario we could come up with for my application.


I would say that my only real annoyance is that the platform 'floats' so easily that when one person moves around in a chair the entire platform moves a bit. If you have 'fidgity' kids sitting next to you it will become annoying quite quickly.


----------



## Mark P

I dont and wouldnt use Isolators, some guru told me to use them and I tore them out of all the risers after I heard/felt the room without them.


Better yet just get the D-Box and be done with all the monkeying around.


Buttkicker never impressed me much, they always felt too mechanical. I wouldnt even mess with it unless youre going with Clarks Platinums or better


----------



## dreamhost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I dont and wouldnt use Isolators, some guru told me to use them and I tore them out of all the risers after I heard/felt the room without them.
> 
> 
> Better yet just get the D-Box and be done with all the monkeying around.
> 
> 
> Buttkicker never impressed me much, they always felt too mechanical. I wouldnt even mess with it unless youre going with Clarks Platinums or better



In a scenario where you are using a 'real' riser, of course you don't use isolators, whoever told you to go that route was mistaken.


For my application they were a must have as having the plywood sitting directly on the floor obviously wouldn't work to well. You need the 'flex' to have any effect.


IMHO I can't agree with the 'mechanical' feeling of the buttkickers. They blend in perfectly with the subs in my condo and add a really nice effect. I've yet to have any type of complaint from friends/family. Actually they all love the added 'perceived' bass in the room. The only real downside is they are not at all 'apartment friendly' like buttkicker tries to make them out to be. My downstairs neighbors can still hear them even with the huge amt. of isolators I have, though it's a lot quieter than when I was only running a few isolators. It's much quieter for them compared to when I had them mounted under the chair leg or onto the chair itself.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Better yet just get the D-Box and be done with all the monkeying around.



That's some great advice there. Nothing like having a dedicated 4-channel track as opposed to mono source from the LFE. The biggest drawback for the most powerful tactile transducers isn't in how they perform - it is the source. the Crowson is capable of much more than the LFE source will allow you to see.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks. Do you think I should throw the center channel on the open XTi 4000 Channel and Bridge an XTi 1000 for the Crowsons?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Nope. I'd throw the center on the 4000 (just make sure you be careful, that is a lot of power for the center...consider using the limiter on the amp) and then I'd use the XTi1000 in stereo and split the shakers up between the two channels. You don't need tons of power for the Crowsons (I've run them really well with some 100 w/ch Flying Mole digital monoblocks I sell) and it is better to keep the damping factor higher than to get more power with lower damping.


As for isolation...comes down to simple physics. You want enough mass and shakers for the platform to shake thruout its' entire length, but you don't want the platform attached to the ground since then the shaker will try to shake the planet earth. They may be powerful, but not that powerful.


The Crowsons aren't suited for platform shaking...they are not potent enough. The Buttkicker LFE and Clarks (particularly the Platinums) are specifically designed for this. They have far larger engines and create much more force. I second the idea of a sub-platform with shakers attached to it and the seats on top. The sub-platform doesn't have to stick out beyond the edges of the chairs but should float. I suspect this will be the best bet given the ultra potent system you have in there.


----------



## FoeHammer865




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As I mentioned in a recent post in this thread, my current projector can be focused very cleanly at the center of the image, but due to the quality of the lens used the result is a softer focus out at the edge...
> 
> *Ruben*, with regards to focus (if you can remember the flat screen), did the focus improve towards the edge of the screen when you went to the curved one?
> 
> 
> Thanks,



To the best of my knowledge, the reason the focus issue goes away with a curved screen is due to the distance the image at the edges has to travel from the lense to hit the screen.


Simple Trig shows that with a wide angle lense (as in CH) the difference between the distance in the center and to the edge are quite different. on a 9' wide screen the distance is 8.5" longer than in the center. When you focus it for the center, the outside then is too far away for that focul length. The curve takes in this distance and keeps the focul length the same as that at the center.


I believe this is the most important advantage to the curved screen (besides the cool factor







).


With a CH set up and wide angle lense this issue becomes more of an issue than without the lense. The mfg's took this into account when they give you a certain throw distance so it is much less an issue without a seperate lense.


Personally the cool factor is more of a factor for me than the focal length. The focus is just an added benefit










Good Luck

TREVOR


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> As for isolation...comes down to simple physics. You want enough mass and shakers for the platform to shake thruout its' entire length, but you don't want the platform attached to the ground since then the shaker will try to shake the planet earth. They may be powerful, but not that powerful.



Hence the reason I said to use isolators. You are not trying to stop the motion at all, but are trying to allow the platform to move when the effects tell it to move. If you have a platform that is liquid nailed to a cement floor and then you add Buttkickers, what have you done? You have tied the wood to the floor in a hard way, that will kill a lot of the motion you are trying to achieve.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's some great advice there. Nothing like having a dedicated 4-channel track as opposed to mono source from the LFE. The biggest drawback for the most powerful tactile transducers isn't in how they perform - it is the source. the Crowson is capable of much more than the LFE source will allow you to see.



As are the Clark Synthesis, full range transducers that are made for ourdoor decks, as well as inside swimming pools, you dont need isolators at all with the platinums, atleast not in a bonus room. I was told by the folks at Clark not to isolate the risers and that would cause a much better effect and they were right, I lost the isolation and it was a whole new experience.


Bad thing about D-Box is no HD, unless thats changed since a couple months ago when I was seeing if they had became more cost effective.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

There isn't anything that prevents D-BOX from working with HD. I have been using mine with HD for about 3 years now so perhaps you looked at them a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.


----------



## Mark P

I can use it watching King Kong HD? sweet


Some would consider Tualitin in a galaxy far, far away.


Something to the effect of having to wait for codes and at the time I think King Kong had just released and HD DVD was just around the corner with its DD


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FoeHammer865* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, the reason the focus issue goes away with a curved screen is due to the distance the image at the edges has to travel from the lense to hit the screen.
> 
> 
> Simple Trig shows that with a wide angle lense (as in CH) the difference between the distance in the center and to the edge are quite different. on a 9' wide screen the distance is 8.5" longer than in the center. When you focus it for the center, the outside then is too far away for that focul length. The curve takes in this distance and keeps the focul length the same as that at the center.
> 
> 
> I believe this is the most important advantage to the curved screen (besides the cool factor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> 
> With a CH set up and wide angle lense this issue becomes more of an issue than without the lense. The mfg's took this into account when they give you a certain throw distance so it is much less an issue without a seperate lense.
> 
> 
> Personally the cool factor is more of a factor for me than the focal length. The focus is just an added benefit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> TREVOR



Thanks Trevor...


Damn, now I have to figure how I am going to bend the aluminum to the right curve!


----------



## SmX

Right now I am setting up a 16 terrabyte storage solution for my home.

I have 2 16 bay hot Swappable Storcase Chassis's with 32 500 gig hard drives.


Does anyone here know anything about the Kaleidescape DVD ripping system (MrPoindextor)? I have 1,100 DVDs I am going to rip and do not wish to do them one by one. Also, how loud is the Kaleidescape Server? My servers are a bit loud but I found a great place for them that is outside my theater.


Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.


Ruben


----------



## tshepherd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.



Ruben, you may well be the king of scope creep (in a good way)!










Depending on how you want to deal with wiring, you might consider looking at a Control4 system ( www.control4.com ). They don't have a native solution for streaming video at this point, but their music streaming is pretty decent. I've got their Media Controller and 16 channel amp in a central closet in my house, with mini-touch screens in 4 rooms and several pairs of in-walls / in-ceilings. I've also got a video switch ( www.neothings.com ) setup so I can share components between 2 Sony LCDs. You could hook the HTPC into a video switch and use it to distribute video / audio as needed, the only catch being that you need to have a solution in place for getting the video around (component wiring or a CAT5 video distribution system). On the music side, C4 sells wireless / ethernet speaker points and wireless touch screens that can be used to distribute audio without significant wiring in place.


Of course you could also look at something higher end like a Crestron system which would be less of a compromise.


HTH.

Tom


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can use it watching King Kong HD? sweet
> 
> 
> Some would consider Tualitin in a galaxy far, far away.
> 
> 
> Something to the effect of having to wait for codes and at the time I think King Kong had just released and HD DVD was just around the corner with its DD




There is a bit of a wait for the codes since they are not programmed by the studios, but then we aren't depending on the studios for support. Think of it like DTS 6.1 - they are on the disc the day the film comes out, if they have them. If not, you never get them. D-BOX goes out and gets the title and programs it. They get them a little early, so the target for major releases is that the film is released on a Tuesday and they have the codes up for download on Friday. I personally think that isn't too long to wait.


King Kong was a bear to program. I spoke with D-BOX about their output. It seemed like every time they hired a new programmer, they didn't put out more titles per month and I made an inquiry. I was informed that movies are taking longer and longer to encode since they are getting more and more intense. King King is pretty intense during the last hour of the film and it took a lot of work to get the codes made up for it. However, they did have an advance copy of King Kong and had the codes up online before the film was released.


It turns out, Peter Jackson has a D-BOX system now, so they must be impressing the people who make the films. They did redo some of the codes for the Lord of the Rings trilogy recently.


----------



## miked2024

Ruben,


AFAIK the kaleidascape system is fully proprietary. i don't think you could use your storage array with the kaleidascape system, nor could you use their disc ripper to get your dvd content onto your array for use with theatertek.


-miked


----------



## mastiff34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now I am setting up a 16 terrabyte storage solution for my home.
> 
> I have 2 16 bay hot Swappable Storcase Chassis's with 32 500 gig hard drives.
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know anything about the Kaleidescape DVD ripping system (MrPoindextor)? I have 1,100 DVDs I am going to rip and do not wish to do them one by one. Also, how loud is the Kaleidescape Server? My servers are a bit loud but I found a great place for them that is outside my theater.
> 
> 
> Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Damn, and I thoought my 1.2 TB solution was crazy =). Nice man, nice, though I enjoyed ripping each movie individually, simply because I can cut the movie right before it starts and kill it right after it ends, and only get the best sound track off the disk, vs all the fluff.


Just wath the each, and make sure you do some serious raid 5 or better raid 10...


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now I am setting up a 16 terrabyte storage solution for my home.
> 
> I have 2 16 bay hot Swappable Storcase Chassis's with 32 500 gig hard drives.
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know anything about the Kaleidescape DVD ripping system (MrPoindextor)? I have 1,100 DVDs I am going to rip and do not wish to do them one by one. Also, how loud is the Kaleidescape Server? My servers are a bit loud but I found a great place for them that is outside my theater.
> 
> 
> Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


That is quite a server, but according to my calculations, you should be able to get by with much less right now if you haven't already purchased the drives. I don't know your O/S and/or RAID controller, but many have a 2TB limit so you might be looking at quite a few network drives.


The Kaleidescape servers are very quiet. I think my one home built server I had (3.5TB) would have been louder than perhaps 40 of the Kaleidescape servers and that isn't an exaggeration but a real estimate. My server sounded like a Cessna taxiing down the runway.


The Kaleidescape bulk _loading_ system is one of the coolest things, but it is proprietary. The drive system isn't a standard PC component so what you have is an SDK and it is up to the end user to make the software they need. I wanted one as a changer for an HTPC but couldn't find any control software for it. There are several programs for use with CD audio, but they are around a grand each and the loader costs several thousand dollars. Kaleidescape uses the loader and has a specially built PC that interfaces with it and uploads the data to the Kaleidescape servers.


In short, you are stuck with either loading your entire collection one disc at a time, hiring somebody to do that for you, or writing your own laoding program that will take advantage of the carousel and then it would depend on the version of the carousel that you have. Mine has two drives so it goes pretty fast.


eXperinet's MIRV system is going to be shipping a bulk loader soon, but it is the same type as Kaleidescape's with the same limitations. (I am a dealer for both and don't look forward to having to purchase a second bulk loader).


PM me your phone number, Ruben. I have something I want to talk to you about. I think you will find it worth the effort.


----------



## mike_somd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now I am setting up a 16 terrabyte storage solution for my home.
> 
> I have 2 16 bay hot Swappable Storcase Chassis's with 32 500 gig hard drives.
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know anything about the Kaleidescape DVD ripping system (MrPoindextor)? I have 1,100 DVDs I am going to rip and do not wish to do them one by one. Also, how loud is the Kaleidescape Server? My servers are a bit loud but I found a great place for them that is outside my theater.
> 
> 
> Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



You could always get a scsi dvd tower that has 7 drives or so and then use a script to rip dvds and then reload after the dvds are done. And that is one hell of a storage solution.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike_somd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You could always get a scsi dvd tower that has 7 drives or so and then use a script to rip dvds and then reload after the dvds are done. And that is one hell of a storage solution.




Is that possible? I have a friend that has a 14 Drive unit. It does 14 DVDs at a time. I could borrow it and rip 14 DVDs at a time.


Please let me know.


Ruben


----------



## mike_somd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that possible? I have a friend that has a 14 Drive unit. It does 14 DVDs at a time. I could borrow it and rip 14 DVDs at a time.
> 
> 
> Please let me know.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I don't have one, but have read in a mailing list where a guy on there used a version with cd drives to rip his collection.


I don't know if you could rip 14 DVDs simultaneously, but you could load up 14 and have them run consecutively, or as many as your hard drive thoughput would allow.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

You would be looking at around 109MB/sec sustained throughput, so you would either need a fiber connection or multiple GigE lines since that is above the capacity for sustained throughput for a single GigE line once overhead is taken into account. At that rate and assuming 15 minutes per disc, you would be looking at about 2-3 days of work but I doubt you could keep up with it easily so it would certainly take at least 3 days and pretty long days at that. There is no way you could keep up with it if you had to do any user interraction with the ripping program.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Hey, quick question, wouldn't a screen that has been curved to match a particular projector be pretty hard to match up to a different one down the road?


Wouldn't the "new" PJ have to be positioned at the same loaction etc.?


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Yes, it would have to be located the same place - or more precisely the same distance from the lens to the screen, but that is pretty easy as long as you have a fairly standard throw and don't have a vertical offset. Offsets are usually seen in business projectors and not home units, so that isn't likely to be a problem.


----------



## swithey

Ruben,


I sent you a PM.


----------



## BFauska

Ruben,


You would probably need a custom software setup or at least a script of some sort to rip sequentially, but this may be an answer to your current data transfer query. Sony media changer 

I don't have any experiance with it but it sounds promising, with 200 disks at a time, even if it took 100 hours between loads, you would only have to load this thing 6 times to transfer all of your disks.


I don't know how well it would work, but at least it's another option to wade through. Good luck,


Brian


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I decided to 86 the 3 Sony DVD jukeboxes because I am a sucker for direct movie playing without menus and the incredible video quality of TheaterTek with ffdshow and Dscaler. Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I like the direct playback too. I intensly hate the "downloading is a crime" intro that one of the studios is using. It is amazing, I went to play the 40th anniversary edition of Sound of Music and this really hard rock downloading is a crime' intro starts up.


So what I started doing is copying just the movie and audio portions of the DVD to DVD-R and putting it back into the Sony changer. It takes a while but I still get the 400 disk direct access through DVD Lobby and don't have to change my setup in taht area..


Regarding the playing through TheaterTek I know that Mario found a video card that has component IN. So I believe that you could play the DVD on the Sony and feed it into the video card and ahve TheaterTek process it.


But if you have already bought the hard drives then this is a moot point anyway.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Plus I want to stream my whole movie and music collection throughout my house.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Here is what I did. I went with a fairly inexpensive method.


To begin with I only needed sound in 4 areas of the house. Secondly I do not require HD video in the other parts of the house.


For the audio I purchased a MRC44 Xantech unit. This unit allows for the distribution of audio and video to up to 4 locations and uses keypads to control it. The control pads also receive and route infrared. I am using the MRC44 only for audio distribution and IR control. I send the IR output from the MRC44 to the USB-UIRT on the htPC and into MainLobby. From there I control all of the devices from the htPC. The only audio that I actually route throughout the house comes form the htPC.


For the video I am using a 4 channel RF modulator. Going this route made life very easy for my wife to figure it out and control all of the options. This allowed me to move my satellite receiver and my 2 digital cable box receivers down into the home theater racks. Now every single TV in the house can watch satellite, cable, PVR, or whats happening in the theater.


So everywhere throughout the house channel 82 is the digital PVR, channel 84 is satellite, channel 86 is whatever is playing on the home theater, and channel 88 is the second digital cable receiver.


The IR signals are received by the Xantech control pads and sent to the htPC which in turn controls the different devices.


If you ahve any interest in this type of setup I can provide more detailed explainations.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BFauska* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> You would probably need a custom software setup or at least a script of some sort to rip sequentially, but this may be an answer to your current data transfer query. Sony media changer
> 
> I don't have any experiance with it but it sounds promising, with 200 disks at a time, even if it took 100 hours between loads, you would only have to load this thing 6 times to transfer all of your disks.
> 
> 
> I don't know how well it would work, but at least it's another option to wade through. Good luck,
> 
> 
> Brian



You are my Super Hero. What a great find. I was searching high and low for something like this. Thank You Very Much.


Question now is, does it rip DVDs? Research time.



Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is what I did. I went with a fairly inexpensive method.
> 
> 
> To begin with I only needed sound in 4 areas of the house. Secondly I do not require HD video in the other parts of the house.
> 
> 
> For the audio I purchased a MRC44 Xantech unit. This unit allows for the distribution of audio and video to up to 4 locations and uses keypads to control it. The control pads also receive and route infrared. I am using the MRC44 only for audio distribution and IR control. I send the IR output from the MRC44 to the USB-UIRT on the htPC and into MainLobby. From there I control all of the devices from the htPC. The only audio that I actually route throughout the house comes form the htPC.
> 
> 
> For the video I am using a 4 channel RF modulator. Going this route made life very easy for my wife to figure it out and control all of the options. This allowed me to move my satellite receiver and my 2 digital cable box receivers down into the home theater racks. Now every single TV in the house can watch satellite, cable, PVR, or whats happening in the theater.
> 
> 
> So everywhere throughout the house channel 82 is the digital PVR, channel 84 is satellite, channel 86 is whatever is playing on the home theater, and channel 88 is the second digital cable receiver.
> 
> 
> The IR signals are received by the Xantech control pads and sent to the htPC which in turn controls the different devices.
> 
> 
> If you ahve any interest in this type of setup I can provide more detailed explainations.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yes I will be PMing you when I am ready. That sounds great.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## documentarymaker

Fauska -


That Sony changer you referenced only rips CD's, not DVD's. That wouldnt help Ruben at all.


I have a Universal remote MX-3000 that I use with a program called "DMX-3000" and my sony 777ES changer. Basically it has an icon for each movie in your changer(s) and you select the movie you want by touching its cover art. Like a mini- kaliedescope system.


You can see it here Ruben... DMX-3000 software 


Kevin -


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *documentarymaker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Fauska -
> 
> 
> That Sony changer you referenced only rips CD's, not DVD's. That wouldnt help Ruben at all.
> 
> 
> I have a Universal remote MX-3000 that I use with a program called "DMX-3000" and my sony 777ES changer. Basically it has an icon for each movie in your changer(s) and you select the movie you want by touching its cover art. Like a mini- kaliedescope system.
> 
> 
> You can see it here Ruben... DMX-3000 software
> 
> 
> Kevin -



Yeah, I found out earlier today. it was a good try. I have the storage already, I already had one 16 bay unit and bought another one recently off a friend.


There has got to be a person out there somewhere that can rig up some automated loader to load and rip DVD's to a hard drive. Even if it's one by one and can do it non stop overnight and all day. It takes me about 12 minutes to rip the DVD main feature on my machine which means I can do 5 DVDs an hour one at a time.


Anyone? I can pay.


Ruben


----------



## Ktulu_1

I understand that you'd rather have a more automated process but...


With the right case and right drive controllers you could put 4, 6, 8, or more DVD-ROM drives in a PC. You could manually load the thing, kick off the required number of DVDFab or DVDDecrypter apps, rip several at once, and walk away for a few minutes or hours. Your rip times per disc will go up for sure but your interaction would go way down. Kick it off before you go to bed or leave the house and you'd be done before you knew it.


----------



## mike_somd

Here is how you can rip your dvds with a dvd scsi tower with dvd decrypter. You will need to set up a batch file with command line calls to dvd decrypter with the correct switches. To see the switches at the command line use the switch /?.


The following is a sample of what a command line call to dvd decrypter would look like:

dvddecrypter /MODE IFO /SRC g: /DEST "D:\\[DISC_LABEL]\\" /VTS 1 /PGC 1 /START /CLOSE

or you can use

dvddecrypter /MODE FILE /SRC g: /DEST "d:\\[DISC_LABEL]\\" /FILES MOVIE /START /CLOSE


This command line call will rip only the movie off of the dvd with all the audio streams. You would put as manny calls to dvd decrypter as needed to cover all dvd drives in the batch file. You would have to change the source for each drive and edit the destination string to your liking.


DVD Decryptor will most likey not work on newer (after nov 05) dvds, since that is when the producer of dvd decryptor got sued and stopped updating the program. However on newer discs you will have to use a program like ripit4me along with dvd decryptor to rip newer discs, however you will loose the automated process.


To fully understand the command line switches of dvd decryptor check out the following post at digital video forums: http://forum.digital-digest.com/show...6&postcount=28 


You can also change settings in dvd decrypter for the size of the output vob files. This should give you a start and let you play with it until you get exactly what you want.


Hopefully this works for you, and I can say that I contributed to your magnificent home theatre.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike_somd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is how you can rip your dvds with a dvd scsi tower with dvd decrypter. You will need to set up a batch file with command line calls to dvd decrypter with the correct switches. To see the switches at the command line use the switch /?.
> 
> 
> The following is a sample of what a command line call to dvd decrypter would look like:
> 
> dvddecrypter /MODE IFO /SRC g: /DEST "D:\\[DISC_LABEL]\\" /VTS 1 /PGC 1 /START /CLOSE
> 
> or you can use
> 
> dvddecrypter /MODE FILE /SRC g: /DEST "d:\\[DISC_LABEL]\\" /FILES MOVIE /START /CLOSE
> 
> 
> This command line call will rip only the movie off of the dvd with all the audio streams. You would put as manny calls to dvd decrypter as needed to cover all dvd drives in the batch file. You would have to change the source for each drive and edit the destination string to your liking.
> 
> 
> DVD Decryptor will most likey not work on newer (after nov 05) dvds, since that is when the producer of dvd decryptor got sued and stopped updating the program. However on newer discs you will have to use a program like ripit4me along with dvd decryptor to rip newer discs, however you will loose the automated process.
> 
> 
> To fully understand the command line switches of dvd decryptor check out the following post at digital video forums: http://forum.digital-digest.com/show...6&postcount=28
> 
> 
> You can also change settings in dvd decrypter for the size of the output vob files. This should give you a start and let you play with it until you get exactly what you want.
> 
> 
> Hopefully this works for you, and I can say that I contributed to your magnificent home theatre.



So will this do it one disc at a time or all drives at once?


Ruben


----------



## mike_somd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So will this do it one disc at a time or all drives at once?
> 
> 
> Ruben



One disc at a time.


----------



## mike_somd

I also forgut to put that you need to put quotes around dvddecryptor in the command line with the path to dvddecryptor like the following: "c:\\program files\\dvd decryptor\\dvddecryptor"


You can also place @ECHO OFF at the top of the bat file to eliminate printing each command to the command line.


----------



## dastiberious

Ruben,


We use an "automated DVD duplicator" at my company to rip DVD/CD's, sometimes up to 100 at a time without stopping. It's really pretty neat to use...


The company is Disc Makers and you'll have to google it. I can't post a hyper yet...


I would think you could script the application to use this guy as your drive someway/somehow.


Either way, check it out and let me know what you think.


Brian


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dastiberious* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> We use an "automated DVD duplicator" at my company to rip DVD/CD's, sometimes up to 100 at a time without stopping. It's really pretty neat to use...
> 
> 
> The company is Disc Makers and you'll have to google it. I can't post a hyper yet...
> 
> 
> I would think you could script the application to use this guy as your drive someway/somehow.
> 
> 
> Either way, check it out and let me know what you think.
> 
> 
> Brian



Are you talking about this?
http://www.discmakers.com/duplicators/products/pico.asp 


I was looking at that already but it only rips cds. However, I am talking to a friend that programs and he said he may be able to program it to Rip DVDs using Clone DVD.


Ruben


----------



## dastiberious

Yep, but check out a couple of their other models. They do rip DVD's, not just CD's.


I used to use the thing all the time when I was on a different team...


After talking with one of the guys at work today, were felt pretty darn certain you could script the app to use this drive to automate what you're doing.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, it would have to be located the same place - or more precisely the same distance from the lens to the screen, but that is pretty easy as long as you have a fairly standard throw and don't have a vertical offset. Offsets are usually seen in business projectors and not home units, so that isn't likely to be a problem.



Wait a minute, a couple of threads over the HT PJ getting a lot of ink anf the one that I would like to set up a curved screen for id the Optoma HD81 and it definitely has an offset (27-33%)...


So what does this imply?


----------



## posde

Hi Ruben,



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There has got to be a person out there somewhere that can rig up some automated loader to load and rip DVD's to a hard drive. Even if it's one by one and can do it non stop overnight and all day. It takes me about 12 minutes to rip the DVD main feature on my machine which means I can do 5 DVDs an hour one at a time.



search for the NSM2000. It is a DVD jukebox, with a SCSI interface. Also, search for the autoripper.


Not tried any of the above, but they might prove useful for your quest.


rgds

posde


PS: I am another one of those, who registered on the AVS Forum because of your thread. Just awsome.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait a minute, a couple of threads over the HT PJ getting a lot of ink anf the one that I would like to set up a curved screen for id the Optoma HD81 and it definitely has an offset (27-33%)...
> 
> 
> So what does this imply?



It implies that to produce the Optoma quicker and cheaper, they took the internals from a business class projector and put the 1080p chip in it. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, but just remember that with an offset you will have to have the projector significantly higher than the top of the screen if you don't want to deal with keystone correction. Many people run their theaters with the screen around 1' from the ceiling and that just isn't going to work well with the Optoma HD81.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It implies that to produce the Optoma quicker and cheaper, they took the internals from a business class projector and put the 1080p chip in it. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, but just remember that with an offset you will have to have the projector significantly higher than the top of the screen if you don't want to deal with keystone correction. Many people run their theaters with the screen around 1' from the ceiling and that just isn't going to work well with the Optoma HD81.



FYI, the InFocus IN line of projectors have an offset as well. I was chatting with the guys in the thread about them and it turns out, I would have to tilt the projector up (ceiling mount) and use the keystone correction, since I can't lower my screen enough. Stupid to make an HT projector with an offset if you ask me. For instance, for a 100" screen, and not tilting the projector, I would have had to have the screen something like 2 feet lower than the center of the lens. 2 feet!! That would mean my screen would only be a foot from the floor or some stupid thing like that with an 8 food ceiling.


That is why I am replacing my Sony 10HT with another Sony, the VPL-HS51A (on sale now!).


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Scott, I wouldn't say it is necessarily stupid to make a projector with an offset - there is a market for them.


For example, let's say the top of your screen is 8' off the ground, but you have a couple risers in a room with a ceiling that slopes up as it moves away from the screen to 12' tall in the back of the room from 9' tall in the front. You could have the back row an additional 18-24" up, but if you used 1' risers your back row would need the projector lens to be 6' above the riser and that is going to be in head bumping range just about anywhere outside of Oaxaca.


There was a theater install I put a bid on that needed a projector with an offset, or at least could really use one but I think the Optoma was out of his price range, or at least their 1080p one was.


I think it is good we have both kinds and is only a pain when you see one you want and it is wrong in the offset/no offset department, but at least there are options for each. If you can do either, the one with an offset is generally better since it moves the projector farther from the people and cuts down on fan noise issues. In the future, if the person moves to one without an offset, all that needs to be done is to add a longer extension pole for the drop and interconnect extensions if the installer didn't make the cables long enough in the first place.


----------



## ebr

Yeah - I wish my Ruby had the capability for more offset than it does. I had to drop mine 3' off of my ceiling to avoid tilting/keystone. This puts it right at 6' off the ground. Not a problem for me, but I have a friend who is 6'6" and he needs to watch his head as he goes by.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *posde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> search for the NSM2000. It is a DVD jukebox, with a SCSI interface. Also, search for the autoripper.
> 
> 
> Not tried any of the above, but they might prove useful for your quest.
> 
> 
> rgds
> 
> posde
> 
> 
> PS: I am another one of those, who registered on the AVS Forum because of your thread. Just awsome.



Welcome to AVS, and Thank You for joining on the account of my thread. It is a great thing to have great people like you help out. I am learning so much from all you guys.


Thanks again!

Ruben


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Scott, I wouldn't say it is necessarily stupid to make a projector with an offset - there is a market for them.
> 
> 
> .....I think it is good we have both kinds and is only a pain when you see one you want and it is wrong in the offset/no offset department, but at least there are options for each...



I guess you are right. I was looking at the IN76 and was thinking it would be great, until I heard about the offset which doesn't work for me, but would be great for somebody with high ceilings who didn't want the extension pole like EBR had to do... EBR, that sucks that it has to be that low, did you put any of the yellow/black caution tape on it?


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I found out earlier today. it was a good try. I have the storage already, I already had one 16 bay unit and bought another one recently off a friend.
> 
> 
> There has got to be a person out there somewhere that can rig up some automated loader to load and rip DVD's to a hard drive. Even if it's one by one and can do it non stop overnight and all day. It takes me about 12 minutes to rip the DVD main feature on my machine which means I can do 5 DVDs an hour one at a time.
> 
> 
> Anyone? I can pay.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I think I have a script that might work for you. I'm out of pocket until Sunday but can probably get something to you on Monday (unless someone else does it 1st). Sounds pretty easy to do. I have a PC setup with (3) DVD drives I can use to test -- as I was planning to write something for myself anyway. I might even be able to write a small VB app to make things a bit easier. I'll post here once I get something working for you.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It implies that to produce the Optoma quicker and cheaper, they took the internals from a business class projector and put the 1080p chip in it. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, but just remember that with an offset you will have to have the projector significantly higher than the top of the screen if you don't want to deal with keystone correction. Many people run their theaters with the screen around 1' from the ceiling and that just isn't going to work well with the Optoma HD81.



Yep, I under stand all of that, but what I was curious about was your earlier comment about the offset as it relates to a curved screen?:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter
> 
> Yes, it would have to be located the same place - or more precisely the same distance from the lens to the screen, but that is pretty easy as long as you have a fairly standard throw *and don't have a vertical offset*. Offsets are usually seen in business projectors and not home units, so that isn't likely to be a problem.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

The throw relates to the distance from the lens to the screen in a line perpendicular to the screen. If you have the exact same throw but use a vertical offset, the distance from the screen to the lens will be the same horizontally, but there will be an added vertical element and thus you will have a slightly different distance. How much it will matter depends on the amount of the offset.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The throw relates to the distance from the lens to the screen in a line perpendicular to the screen. If you have the exact same throw but use a vertical offset, the distance from the screen to the lens will be the same horizontally, but there will be an added vertical element and thus you will have a slightly different distance. How much it will matter depends on the amount of the offset.



Ahhh, I see what you mean, within reason though this should account for only a slight difference though, as you say dependant on the amount of offset.


That look of the curved screen would look be though!










Do you agree with Ruben, the arc derived by the screen to lens distance would be reasonably close enough?


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys,


My graphik Eye is going to be hidden in one of my columns and I need a light switch outside my theater that I can tap into the Grafik Eye for the entrance. Can someone point me in the right direction to buy something compatible online?


Can't see to find anyone with anything.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## bpape

Don't have a link right now - sorry. But Lutron makes a switch just for that purpose - I use one. It's just a single button tap off/on to take the lights to the top preset/last setting.


Bryan


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

I will find the link for you shortly. They make a couple - one that has the same number of buttons your GrafikEye has and looks kind of like it but in a single gang. Then they have "See Touch" buttons that have several button counts and you can have them engraved to say the scene name, such as:


Intermission

Movie

Sports

Music

Party

Full

Off


What model of GrafikEye do you have?


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> My graphik Eye is going to be hidden in one of my columns and I need a light switch outside my theater that I can tap into the Grafik Eye for the entrance. Can someone point me in the right direction to buy something compatible online?
> 
> 
> Can't see to find anyone with anything.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I think this is what you are looking for. It's called the NTGRX-2B-SL .










They also have one that will allow you to select up to (4) scenes and have a Master on/off. It's called the NTGRX-4S 










There are a few others you might want look at also. HERE is the main page.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

I think this is a lot better:










They have a couple of versions and they are available in different colors. I am getting a black 7 button one for my theater.


They also are offered in a decora version.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> My graphik Eye is going to be hidden in one of my columns and I need a light switch outside my theater that I can tap into the Grafik Eye for the entrance. Can someone point me in the right direction to buy something compatible online?
> 
> 
> Can't see to find anyone with anything.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



I purchased a NTGRX-4S-BL The BL is for Black. I got it from an electric company in California for about $150. It works perfectly and you connect it with Cat5 cable. I have a grafik-eye 6 zone.


Here is an informational link

http://www.electricsuppliesonline.com/luntgreye5wa.html 


This might even be who I bought it from. It took about 14 days to arrive.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will find the link for you shortly. They make a couple - one that has the same number of buttons your GrafikEye has and looks kind of like it but in a single gang. Then they have "See Touch" buttons that have several button counts and you can have them engraved to say the scene name, such as:
> 
> 
> Intermission
> 
> Movie
> 
> Sports
> 
> Music
> 
> Party
> 
> Full
> 
> Off
> 
> 
> What model of GrafikEye do you have?



Thanks, I have the 3106. 6 zones 4 Scenes.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here are a few shots of one of the raids. I have 2 of these, one has 16 400 gig hard drives and the other has 16 500 gig hard drives. Hopefully when 1 terrabyte drives come out and become popular and drop in price like 400 - 500 gig drives did, I will upgrade to 32 of those







By the way, this mammoth weighs 110 lbs.


This shot shows the carriages going in..











Here is one carriage outside the case..











All drives installed and running...


----------



## J-dubb16

Ruben - you are a sick, sick man.


Having one of the most kick a$$ theaters was not enough. Now you have a mega computer to stream constant video. Happy ripping


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I have the 3106. 6 zones 4 Scenes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Just FYI - the 3106 (I have one too) can have more than 4 scenes - you just have to address them via IR as you only have 4 scene buttons on the front panel.


I can't remember exactly how many, but maybe 8...?


----------



## J-dubb16

ebe - That's great to know because scenes for bathroom breaks and such, you will always control from the remote. Now you can have more set scenes from teh console. I am assuming the manual guides you through this set-up


Thanks


----------



## ebr

I just looked in the manual - the 3000 series can store 16 scenes. 5-16 are only accessible via IR or a remote wall station.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I have the 3106. 6 zones 4 Scenes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



This is the same model taht I have. So the link that I posted earlier works great. You can access the first 4 scenes from the remote and have a dimmer also.


Joe


----------



## SmX

So I found a way to automatically rip DVDs using an automated dvd loader used for burning multiple DVDs. The unit I got coming does 75 DVDs before you have to reload it. This automated DVD loader teamed up with a program I had a programmer write allows you to rip non-stop using Clone DVD or another top ripping program. This way I can rip the main movie to HD and leave all the other junk behind.


Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I think I have a script that might work for you. I'm out of pocket until Sunday but can probably get something to you on Monday (unless someone else does it 1st). Sounds pretty easy to do. I have a PC setup with (3) DVD drives I can use to test -- as I was planning to write something for myself anyway. I might even be able to write a small VB app to make things a bit easier. I'll post here once I get something working for you.



Ruben,


I have good and bad news. The good news is it's relatively easy to rip the entire DVD (all VOBs) via batch. The bad news, it's hard (as I have not found a tool) to do a "Movie Only" rip in a batch type mode. I found a few possibilities but am waiting for emails back from tech support.


If you want to rip everything (the entire DVD with all the FBI warnings, coming attractions, etc), let me know. However, I don't think you'll want to do that (which is not my preference either). If I figure out how to do an automated RIP to get "just the movie", I'll let you know.


EDIT: Glad you found something to rip multiple DVDs. Let us know if you decide to take the custom app public







SMX-Ripper


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J-dubb16* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben - you are a sick, sick man.
> 
> 
> Having one of the most kick a$$ theaters was not enough. Now you have a mega computer to stream constant video. Happy ripping



Thanks man. I'm just looking for good quality movie watching throughout mi casa and it seems like this is the solution for me.


Ruben


----------



## dastiberious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I found a way to automatically rip DVDs using an automated dvd loader used for burning multiple DVDs. The unit I got coming does 75 DVDs before you have to reload it. This automated DVD loader teamed up with a program I had a programmer write allows you to rip non-stop using Clone DVD or another top ripping program. This way I can rip the main movie to HD and leave all the other junk behind.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Which automated DVD loader did you end up getting?? You'll have to let us know how easily it works out for you...


Brian


----------



## Mark P

Are you getting the D-Box? Structural engineer left me hanging by deciding he needed to go playing on the coast for a couple days before returning my call which is very unlike him but..........when ya gotta play, ya gotta play.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you getting the D-Box? Structural engineer left me hanging by deciding he needed to go playing on the coast for a couple days before returning my call which is very unlike him but..........when ya gotta play, ya gotta play.



Doesn't look like it for now. I really can't justify spending that type of money on some actuators on steroids. I'm sure it is incredible, but I can't find time to get to a dealer to test them to see if I can justify the expense. Once you get it installed, let us know your thoughts.


By the way, I didn't like V for Vendetta. Something about masks and way too much dialogue that loses me in movies. Three other people and myself fell asleep 20 minutes into the movie.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I have good and bad news. The good news is it's relatively easy to rip the entire DVD (all VOBs) via batch. The bad news, it's hard (as I have not found a tool) to do a "Movie Only" rip in a batch type mode. I found a few possibilities but am waiting for emails back from tech support.
> 
> 
> If you want to rip everything (the entire DVD with all the FBI warnings, coming attractions, etc), let me know. However, I don't think you'll want to do that (which is not my preference either). If I figure out how to do an automated RIP to get "just the movie", I'll let you know.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Glad you found something to rip multiple DVDs. Let us know if you decide to take the custom app public
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SMX-Ripper



Thanks for looking into it for me. The loader arrives tomorrow and I should start ripping mid this week. I will report how it works when ripping starts. I will probably eBay the loader once I am done ripping. No point in keeping it around to collect dust.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doesn't look like it for now. I really can't justify spending that type of money on some actuators on steroids. I'm sure it is incredible, but I can't find time to get to a dealer to test them to see if I can justify the expense. Once you get it installed, let us know your thoughts.
> 
> 
> By the way, I didn't like V for Vendetta. Something about masks and way too much dialogue that loses me in movies. Three other people and myself fell asleep 20 minutes into the movie.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


The magic of the D-BOX isn't in the actuators, (although they are quite impressive) but it is in the control and the F/X programming. I found a dealer near you who will have his showroom back up at the end of the week. I will let you know who to contact - it is pretty close to you, actually.


----------



## mastiff34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here are a few shots of one of the raids. I have 2 of these, one has 16 400 gig hard drives and the other has 16 500 gig hard drives. Hopefully when 1 terrabyte drives come out and become popular and drop in price like 400 - 500 gig drives did, I will upgrade to 32 of those
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, this mammoth weighs 110 lbs.
> 
> 
> This shot shows the carriages going in..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is one carriage outside the case..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All drives installed and running...



Damn skippy, I like that! What model is it? I gotta do some research on that. Does it support WOL as well?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> That is quite a server, but according to my calculations, you should be able to get by with much less right now if you haven't already purchased the drives. I don't know your O/S and/or RAID controller, but many have a 2TB limit so you might be looking at quite a few network drives.



Just to update you on this, you can do one large partition on Windows XP SP2 using an Atto card. I was able to do this. Also ripping 1100 DVD main features uses about 5 terrabytes.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn skippy, I like that! What model is it? I gotta do some research on that. Does it support WOL as well?



It's a 16 Bay Storcase InfoStation . They come in SATA to FIBRE or SATA to SCSI ULTRA 320.


Ruben


----------



## haaswood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for looking into it for me. The loader arrives tomorrow and I should start ripping mid this week. I will report how it works when ripping starts. I will probably eBay the loader once I am done ripping. No point in keeping it around to collect dust.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben -- I've been following this post for some time now and once again you WOW us with your ability to work a solution to any problem given enough time to figure it out (MacGyver style with a toothpick and some chewing gum).


I suspect there are a number of people here who are interested in doing the same thing -- I know I am. Maybe you can "rent" out the package (changer and custom program) before dumping it on Ebay??? I'll be first in line! I don't have quite as much HD storage as you do but enough to rip the library.


Make sure the program overlays a line at the bottom of the video during playback -- Ripped by SmX Video Systems. Or something like that.










Keep up the amazing developments...we will continue following for our daily fix of SmX. We try to not look but the withdrawal symptoms are just too much! And they thought that crack was addictive!!!


----------



## McCall

Hi Ruben,

Do you think you could answer some of the questions in Your SMX forum? Some are getting concerned.


----------



## SRH1

I have a question about this ripping process. If you put a DVD movie in your PC and just copy all the files over to your hard drive is that you need to do? Or do you need some type of ripping software to do this.


I have access to a 2000+ slot DVD jukebox with multiple drives in my lab. The software I have makes the entire library show up as a single Windows drive letter, each DVD shows as a folder under that drive letter, then all the disk contents in sub folders under that. If I had 2000 movies in the jukebox I could just grab all 2000 folders and drag them to my RAID, come back in a few days and everything would be copied over automatically with no intervention. Is it really that simple or am I missing something.


It also wouldn't be too much more work to just copy the movie file over if you didn't want all the other stuff on the DVD.


----------



## miked2024

commercial DVDs are encrypted to prevent such easy duplication. you need special software to break the encryption to create a backup, be it on dvd or hard disk. such software is regarded as illegal at this time, at least in the USA, but that's a whole other discussion.


anyway, you'd have to download some dvd decrypting software and play with it to see if it would work with such a large array. then you'd probably have to write a script to rip all your disks and somehow deal with the ones that can't be de-crypted automatically.


-miked


----------



## SmX

Plus, I would only want to rip the main feature and leave out all the special features, menu and extra junk.


The idea here is to hit play and the movie plays without a million previews and whatnot.


Ruben


----------



## laststarfighter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Plus, I would only want to rip the main feature and leave out all the special features, menu and extra junk.
> 
> 
> The idea here is to hit play and the movie plays without a million previews and whatnot.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I really hate the disks that force you to watch every preview and commercial.

they seem to be getting worse


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laststarfighter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really hate the disks that force you to watch every preview and commercial.
> 
> they seem to be getting worse



I agree. They even lock out the menus. But so far I have not found a single one that prevents me from using the next scene button and skipping them.


Try it.


Joe


----------



## advertguy2

thanks for the link skins... never would have found pics like that without your help...


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Well, after 360K views, Sandman's thread got spammed. Funny (& reported).


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By the way, I didn't like V for Vendetta. Something about masks and way too much dialogue that loses me in movies. Three other people and myself fell asleep 20 minutes into the movie.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Its my new Surround and bass demo, the first DVD where I had to turn the gain down on the sub amp due to concerns of structural damage and I use U-571 as my reference. I am fortunate I saw it in the theaters and knew what was coming later in the flick and could prepare for some what has to be 10hz action to the chest cavity.


I am sure you bought it, pop it in and go to chapter 26 and finish the movie at reference, I cant think of another DVD that gives all the aspects of Home Theater as good of a workout from Audio to Video.


As far as the Movie itself, I cant think of many this good made in the last five or six years, the group of 5 we had for the showing agreed and my teenagers watched it again as soon as it was over.


You can find 1000 movies to load on a server and fell asleep in 20 minutes to this, I loaded 500 and thought to myself " 400 of these are really crap, why am I wasting the time?" I probably couldnt think of 50 'good' movies I could watch twice.


Chapter 26- the Rolling Stones and tell us how you like your new sound system


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can find 1000 movies to load on a server and fell asleep in 20 minutes to this, I loaded 500 and thought to myself " 400 of these are really crap, why am I wasting the time?" I probably couldnt think of 50 'good' movies I could watch twice.



You should be able to find well over 50 here:

http://www.imdb.com/chart/top 


Then there are the cult classics that don't end up in that list but you can just sit down and watch anytime from any point in the movie and you find you end up watching until the movie is over - lots of them are on TNT. We often find ourselves watching one and then when the commercial hits, I load up the same title on the Kaleidescape and watch from that point until the end. Kind of funny how that works out, but once you are interested in seeing Rudy, that's what you want to watch.


----------



## miked2024




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Plus, I would only want to rip the main feature and leave out all the special features, menu and extra junk.
> 
> 
> The idea here is to hit play and the movie plays without a million previews and whatnot.
> 
> 
> Ruben



yeah, those forced previews are a pain. i'm creating a poor man's kaleidescape using xbmc and a linux server and ripping only the main movie. i've found a few movies that won't rip with dvdshrink or that require a 2-pass procedure using both dvddecryptor and dvdshrink, but i'm getting there.


and the WAF has been surprisingly good, considering i added yet another remote to the heap.


-miked


----------



## BasementBob

Mr. Poindexter


> Quote:
> We often find ourselves watching one and then when the commercial hits, I load up the same title



I do the same thing.


----------



## KERMIE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is the Trim For the Equipment Rack. This Trim is 2" thick to be flush with the wall treatments. This frame is made out of MDF and is Veneered.
> 
> 
> Front...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Front Close...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back






Ruben, did you do this for all of your Trim between panels? The wood looks great


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KERMIE* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, did you do this for all of your Trim between panels? The wood looks great



Yes


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Since it is now legal to make 'backup' copies of DVD's, consider ImgBurn, from the guy who gave us DVD Decrypter.


It can be found here: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7800.cfm


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since it is now legal to make 'backup' copies of DVD's, consider ImgBurn, from the guy who gave us DVD Decrypter.
> 
> 
> It can be found here: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7800.cfm



Where did this new "legal" status of making a backup get reported?


----------



## FusionRx

Reported here: http://news.com.com/Studios+to+OK+co...l?tag=nefd.top


----------



## miked2024




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Reported here: http://news.com.com/Studios+to+OK+co...l?tag=nefd.top



given the story's title "Studios to OK copying movie downloads to disc" and content, it is saying that content-on-demand customers will be able to burn their downloaded content to discs. it doesn't mention backing up commercial dvds.


----------



## mikeryan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miked2024* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> given the story's title "Studios to OK copying movie downloads to disc" and content, it is saying that content-on-demand customers will be able to burn their downloaded content to discs. it doesn't mention backing up commercial dvds.



Maybe this article is clearer: httx:// biz.yahoo.xxx/ap/060809/dvd_transfers.html?.v=2 (Sorry, I don't have 5 posts.)


From the article: "A film industry group is set to remove some of the procedural hurdles that prevented the legal recording of movies onto blank DVDs in a further sign that Hollywood studios are preparing to expand what consumers can do with downloadable movies."


We Apple afficionados are watching with interest as Apple is reportedly negotiating with the studios to hopefully offer Movies through the iTunes Music Store with the most user-friendly and liberal rights managemnt scheme allowable. If anyone can get the ground rules changed, Steve Jobs can. We'll see soon.


----------



## BasementBob




> Quote:
> Currently the archival exemption under section 117(a)(2) is limited to *computer programs*. This section allows the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of an additional copy of the program "for archival purposes," provided that "all archival copies are destroyed in the event that continued possession of the computer program should cease to be rightful."





> Quote:
> "If you circumvent [electronic locks] to get access to content that you may have a perfect, fair-use right to get, you are still subject to criminal penalties,"



I don't know what the current law in the USA is re backup-of-DVDs, but I remember the second last paragraph of this:
http://www.copyright.gov/reports/stu...executive.html 

where they basically said that

a) the Digital Millennium Copyright Act says it's still absolutely illegal (it's also illegal to load them onto a hard disk, and illegal to load them into RAM)

b) but the whole section may be struck down because of some other common practices for backup (i.e. poor wording, time shifting DVRs, the BetaMax case, fair use, etc) -- but as far as I know it hasn't been struck down yet (more the opposite), although I haven't really been following it since year 2000.


(IMO there's other things wrong with DMCA too: StorageTek, for a while it looked like all the anti-virus companies would have to move out of the USA, etc)


This is a nice summary, although a little biased against DMCA:
http://dvdxcopy.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/291998 


This list was amusing:
http://www.eff.org/endangered/list.php


----------



## HDLife

The last time I was here was sometime in April. I was amazed then but now I am blown away. All of you guys are definately masters of the AVSforum. I learn so much back then but now am inundately with so much information. If I did not have ADHD then, I am definately having it now.


1. Sandman, if that video on faux finish ever get done, please let me know. I would like to get my hands on it.


2. Is anyone on this forum in the DC area, I would like to get in on the HT club locally and get hook up.


3. I wish I got the money to buy the stuffs that Sandman end up not able to make it work on his system. Geez, that brings to the next point...


what do you guys do as your daytime job and at the same time be so knowledgeable... Awesome, Amazing, Astounding! What ever it is I will definitely try to emulate by your example.


----------



## bpape

Well, not all of us have the combination of time, money, and DIY talent that Ruben has - but there are a lot of very good rooms and a ton of folks with a lot of talent around here.


As for what we do during the day - really doesn't matter - it's what you do and can do in your off hours. You'll find people here from Dr's and Dentists, to lawyers, to computer systems folks to help desk techs, to small business owners, etc. It's pretty varied.


Roll up your sleeves and get dirty.


Bryan


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Yes, there are some great systems on here, but the level has really been raised in the last couple of years and the quantity of systems at that upper echelon has increased as well. In some ways, we are keeping up with our online neighbors. Seeing Art's room in person really drove the point home for me and got me in gear to step it up a notch. I am sure that Ruben has done that same thing to many people on the forum.


Hey Ruben, did you ever get over to check out that D-BOX system?


----------



## ebr

I give Sandman major credit in motivating me to take my recent build up another level. Still not quite the Art or Poindexter level - but I'm happy I took the extra time and ripped off some of the Sandman's ideas this time.


So, thanks again, Ruben - for the inspiration







.


----------



## laststarfighter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree. They even lock out the menus. But so far I have not found a single one that prevents me from using the next scene button and skipping them.
> 
> 
> Try it.
> 
> 
> Joe



I've come across a couple, the only thing that you can do is press ">>" to speed through them, talk about being force fed.

I'll try and find the movies in question.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Danley sub ripped a chandelier out of the ceiling upstairs so now I got some more work to do.



Did you ever fix your chandelier? did you improve it's mounting method?







ok, that was a stupid question... of course you did









but, to what extreem did you take it to?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I give Sandman major credit in motivating me to take my recent build up another level. Still not quite the Art or Poindexter level - but I'm happy I took the extra time and ripped off some of the Sandman's ideas this time.
> 
> 
> So, thanks again, Ruben - for the inspiration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Thanks, but all I did was rip off everyone elses ideas here that I liked most and maybe made slight modifications. My columns were my only original ideal.


So thanks to everyone one here on AVS that I ripped off










RUben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laststarfighter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you ever fix your chandelier? did you improve it's mounting method?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ok, that was a stupid question... of course you did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but, to what extreem did you take it to?



Nah, I just cut It down for now. I was going to change the chandelier up their anyway. Thank goodness no one was up there under it when it came down. I would of had to sue Danley for damages and their stocks would of went up










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, did you ever get over to check out that D-BOX system?



I called them up and they informed me they have a D-Box up and running off a Kaliedascape system with all the scenes needed for demoing. I will be up their Monday.


How heavy are Berkliner 075's? Those are the chairs I have.

I ask because I noticed the Odyssee only does 400 lbs per actuator and the XL version does 600lbs. I'm a big dude 6'3" weighing In at 400lbs (too much sitting reading AVS) between me and the chairs the thing may croke LOL.


I would imagine each chair must be at least 100 lbs.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The last time I was here was sometime in April. I was amazed then but now I am blown away. All of you guys are definately masters of the AVSforum. I learn so much back then but now am inundately with so much information. If I did not have ADHD then, I am definately having it now.
> 
> 
> 1. Sandman, if that video on faux finish ever get done, please let me know. I would like to get my hands on it.
> 
> 
> 2. Is anyone on this forum in the DC area, I would like to get in on the HT club locally and get hook up.
> 
> 
> 3. I wish I got the money to buy the stuffs that Sandman end up not able to make it work on his system. Geez, that brings to the next point...
> 
> 
> what do you guys do as your daytime job and at the same time be so knowledgeable... Awesome, Amazing, Astounding! What ever it is I will definitely try to emulate by your example.



Thanks for the kind words. I'm the cheapest dude In the world when I can't justify an expense. I have tools and took woodworking class in high school. I also built a couple things here and there so I saved allot of money building the theater myself.


I also like challenges and do dumb things every now and then like spend $1000 on a DVD duplicator hoping to find a solution to batch ripping DVDs (thought I had a solution but it's still in the works).


Like BPape said, there are allot of Dr's, realtors, lawyers, Nutty Professors







etc here. I am in the Music and Video business myself.


By the way, now is your chance to own some of the Sandman equipment







. I just listed a bunch of new/used gear in the AVS Marketplace.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I called them up and they informed me they have a D-Box up and running off a Kaliedascape system with all the scenes needed for demoing. I will be up their Monday.
> 
> 
> How heavy are Berkliner 075's? Those are the chairs I have.
> 
> I ask because I noticed the Odyssee only does 400 lbs per actuator and the XL version does 600lbs. I'm a big dude 6'3" weighing In at 400lbs (too much sitting reading AVS) between me and the chairs the thing may croke LOL.
> 
> 
> I would imagine each chair must be at least 100 lbs.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Sounds great - you will get to see a Kaleidescape in action at the same time.


About 100 lbs sounds right for a Berkline. My Fortress chairs averaged about 165lbs each (not counting D-BOX actuator weight) and they have a good amount more wood and some steel reinforcement for the motion systems as well as motorized recline so you would be looking around 100-125lbs each depending on options and sizing for a Berkline.


----------



## Mark P

I think what hes asking is, his chair and platform, and him weighs almost 600 lbs and if he adds another seat or more to the " platform" will this be covered in the warranty. 1600 lb total weight on the platform is known but does D-box have a formula where the actuators reside under a certain dimensioned platform with certain weights.


Have you weighed your aluminum frame, joists, and sheeting and how big is it? Does D-box have some charts or something that has examples of what you can get away with and stay covered under warranty? I will be constructing a total aluminum platform with reinforcement at chair legs only, I will also cantilever the joists a couple feet past the platform and I am guessing the platform alone will be atleast 400lbs add three seats and I am up to 1000 lbs, I weigh 250 in the winter and if I have 2- 200lbs friends join in a movie I am overloaded by 50lbs ( oops, I forgot carpet/pad/ insulation in joists, not to mention someones crazy girlfriend/wife swan diving onto the seat after a few drinks)


With all this figured in, does D-Box have acuator point recommendations? I am guessing its not out on the absolute corners or is it?


Also, how long after discontinued will you be able to have the accuators serviced or replaced?


Nevermind , I found this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=dbox Is this framing system a D-Box frame? What I was planning was much different than this but I see Johns platform is exactly what I am talking about as far as cantilevered ( sort of on his) and is this the same system I am getting or is this the 2400 lb system?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think what hes asking is, his chair and platform, and him weighs almost 600 lbs and if he adds another seat or more to the " platform" will this be covered in the warranty. 1600 lb total weight on the platform is known but does D-box have a formula where the actuators reside under a certain dimensioned platform with certain weights.
> 
> 
> Have you weighed your aluminum frame, joists, and sheeting and how big is it? Does D-box have some charts or something that has examples of what you can get away with and stay covered under warranty? I will be constructing a total aluminum platform with reinforcement at chair legs only, I will also cantilever the joists a couple feet past the platform and I am guessing the platform alone will be atleast 400lbs add three seats and I am up to 1000 lbs, I weigh 250 in the winter and if I have 2- 200lbs friends join in a movie I am overloaded by 50lbs ( oops, I forgot carpet/pad/ insulation in joists, not to mention someones crazy girlfriend/wife swan diving onto the seat after a few drinks)
> 
> 
> With all this figured in, does D-Box have acuator point recommendations? I am guessing its not out on the absolute corners or is it?
> 
> 
> Also, how long after discontinued will you be able to have the accuators serviced or replaced?
> 
> 
> Nevermind , I found this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=dbox Is this framing system a D-Box frame? What I was planning was much different than this but I see Johns platform is exactly what I am talking about as far as cantilevered ( sort of on his) and is this the same system I am getting or is this the 2400 lb system?



I don't really care about the warranty part of it at this moment. I am more concerned about if I am going to get the same motion effect as let's say if it was lighter?


So otherwords, is there more motion with less weight on them opposed to more weight with less motion?


The XLs look like they move around more weight at 600lbs per actuator.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think what hes asking is, his chair and platform, and him weighs almost 600 lbs and if he adds another seat or more to the " platform" will this be covered in the warranty. 1600 lb total weight on the platform is known but does D-box have a formula where the actuators reside under a certain dimensioned platform with certain weights.



The warranty isn't related to the weight. If you go overweight, it shuts down and then resets itself in about 5 seconds. It isn't harmful, but it certianly is going to be noticed.


D-BOX engineers platform frames. I have a couple of schematics for some. The measurements do not apply for everybody - rather you look at the size and weight and engineer the locations as best you can to cover that and give the most motion possible.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you weighed your aluminum frame, joists, and sheeting and how big is it? Does D-box have some charts or something that has examples of what you can get away with and stay covered under warranty? I will be constructing a total aluminum platform with reinforcement at chair legs only, I will also cantilever the joists a couple feet past the platform and I am guessing the platform alone will be atleast 400lbs add three seats and I am up to 1000 lbs, I weigh 250 in the winter and if I have 2- 200lbs friends join in a movie I am overloaded by 50lbs ( oops, I forgot carpet/pad/ insulation in joists, not to mention someones crazy girlfriend/wife swan diving onto the seat after a few drinks)



I have not weighed my platform, but I have only overloaded it once and that was understandable when I saw who was on the platform and how many people there were.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With all this figured in, does D-Box have acuator point recommendations? I am guessing its not out on the absolute corners or is it?



No, not absolute corners. Again, it depends on the install.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, how long after discontinued will you be able to have the accuators serviced or replaced?



They have parts for these in stock and they still use them for their programming bay so I feel we will have parts for them for a long, long time.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nevermind , I found this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=dbox Is this framing system a D-Box frame? What I was planning was much different than this but I see Johns platform is exactly what I am talking about as far as cantilevered ( sort of on his) and is this the same system I am getting or is this the 2400 lb system?



Yes, that is a D-BOX frame. John's system is the 2400lb system. Mine is also a 2400lb system.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't really care about the warranty part of it at this moment. I am more concerned about if I am going to get the same motion effect as let's say if it was lighter?
> 
> 
> So otherwords, is there more motion with less weight on them opposed to more weight with less motion?
> 
> 
> The XLs look like they move around more weight at 600lbs per actuator.
> 
> 
> Ruben



No, as long as you are under the weight limit, you will be fine. It doesn't move farther or faster with less weight.


----------



## Mark P

I knew I needed a reason to lose weight. Poindexters weightloss clinic now open.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Nothing wrong with packing on the donuts - just be prepared to shell out for the heavy duty D-BOX.


----------



## HDLife




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. I'm the cheapest dude In the world when I can't justify an expense. I have tools and took woodworking class in high school. I also built a couple things here and there so I saved allot of money building the theater myself.
> 
> 
> I also like challenges and do dumb things every now and then like spend $1000 on a DVD duplicator hoping to find a solution to batch ripping DVDs (thought I had a solution but it's still in the works).
> 
> 
> Like BPape said, there are allot of Dr's, realtors, lawyers, Nutty Professors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> etc here. I am in the Music and Video business myself.
> 
> 
> By the way, now is your chance to own some of the Sandman equipment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I just listed a bunch of new/used gear in the AVS Marketplace.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Talented, resourceful and humble as well. 2 things, can U tell me how the DVD on faux is going and how do one get into your line of business. My cousin is into filming and I would like to guide him


----------



## SmX

I demoed the D-Box today, very impressive. It has allot of motion and it is very nice how they program the motion to the movie. The D-Box sways as well.


I also demoed the Kaliedescape system today too and I wasn't impressed at all. It is way way way overpriced. The software didn't impress me either. The interface was pretty plain and I think people with Windows Media Center and a raid could get similar results. The place I went to quoted me $23,000 for the Kaliedescape Server with 12 500 gig drives and $4,000 for the dvd player and $2500 for the head unit. They charge $1,000 per additional 500 gig drive. I will stick to my set up.


Ruben


----------



## VorlonFog

Ruben, I'm not surprised what they wanted for how little they provide. I figured I'd have to either develop my own stuff (Linux-based) or wait for the open-source wizards to do something really slick. Let us know how your software setup works out. (I already know your hardware setup is GREAT.)


----------



## SmX

Well it looks like it's time for some more construction.


Special thanks goes to Alan Gouger here at AVS for giving me the deal of a lifetime on a D-Box Odyssey system. I really wasn't thinking about doing anymore construction in my theater but after demoing the D-Box Odyssey and getting a deal I couldn't refuse, I had to do it.


For those of you that don't know what the D-Box Odyssey system is, it is basically as good as it gets for motion platform seating. Basically, you install 4 actuators inside your free floating platform underneath the seating area and connect them to a controller box or a PC. They move The entire platform up, down, sideways, tilt etc. to the movie. So instead of having vibrations sent into your chair like with the Crowsons, ButtKickers and Clark tactiles, the entire platform elevates and moves with the movie.


The programmers at D-Box write the motion codes for new movie movements so the platform moves with the movie just like some Universal Studios EarthQuake ride. They write new motion codes every month for new release movies and video games.


The way the system works is you download all the movie and game motion codes from the D-Box site (which is $250 a year I beleive) and install them in your PC or D-Box controller. Then whenever you play a movie that has a motion code inside your PC or controller, it automatically runs the the motion sequence in sync with the movie. It adds 3D to the whole movie experience. So all I need to install now is the smell, air and water effects and then you will really be inside the movie.


For installation, basically I have to cut a big hole in my existing platform for the chairs to install the D-Box system. I will make a welded aluminum frame to support the platform and keep it stiff, solid and lightweight as much as possible.


The D-Box system will be arriving to me this Friday, so I will snap some preliminary pictures before the install.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Ruben,


When you attach the top of the platform to the frame, it would be wise to use some form of dampening material that is very dense. I used a thin sheet of dense rubber on top of the frame edges for my platform. Others have used other material, but it is to keep small resonances from transfering from the frame to the platform top. Even a little roofing felt would work for the task.


You are going to love that Odyssee system. I got my first one nearly 4 years ago and have never gotten my fill of it. I want it in every room of the house if I can get away with it.


----------



## CollinViegas

What is the MSRP on a D-Box system?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the MSRP on a D-Box system?



I just got a quote from a local retailer for $26,000.00 the other day for the complete XL Odyssey System.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> When you attach the top of the platform to the frame, it would be wise to use some form of dampening material that is very dense. I used a thin sheet of dense rubber on top of the frame edges for my platform. Others have used other material, but it is to keep small resonances from transfering from the frame to the platform top. Even a little roofing felt would work for the task.
> 
> 
> You are going to love that Odyssee system. I got my first one nearly 4 years ago and have never gotten my fill of it. I want it in every room of the house if I can get away with it.



Thanks for the tip. I was going to do that once I saw you did it. Here is a question for you, did You bolt the actuators to the frame and the floor or are they lose under the aluminum platform?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## Ktulu_1

Just when I thought this thread was winding down.


----------



## pathdoc

Sounds cool but I get very serious motion sickness and couldn't handle it. Good luck with you system.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What is the MSRP on a D-Box system?



MSRP on the actuators is $22,000 for a platform based system - their most expensive unit. A single Quest chair retails for $7,000 and includes a leather chair with motorized recline.


The controller is available in 2 options - a stand alone controller, the 340c, for $3200 or the PC3 controller, which attaches to a customer supplied computer and runs $1200.


Ruben's $26000 quote is above MSRP for an XL Odyssee system unless they are including a platform frame and those prices vary depending upon the size of the frame.


The platform systems are sweet, but they are also the most expensive D-BOX systems and so that price isn't indicative of the price for an average system.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pathdoc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds cool but I get very serious motion sickness and couldn't handle it. Good luck with you system.



They have intensity settings that are adjustable, much like the volume knob on the receiver or the output knob on the back of a subwoofer. I will admit that I had one person get motion sickness on my system, but that was watching one of the most intense demos there is. I have had literally hundreds of people demo the D-BOX at my house over the years. I think it also offers a fair and balanced view when I report that there was one lady who had an orgasm on the system as well.


----------



## advertguy2

If it was during a movie.... which movie gave her the orgasm?


----------



## zoebisch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it also offers a fair and balanced view when I report that there was one lady who had an orgasm on the system as well.




My gawd, that is the funniest thing I've read all week. ROFLMAO.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will admit that I had one person get motion sickness on my system, but that was watching one of the most intense demos there is.



I need to know what that demo was, sounds really good.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Ruben, that demo was The Matrix Reloaded - freeway chase scene. It think it is chapters 19-22, but I am not sure. It is a long demo.


advertguy2, that clip was Super Speedway: Mach 2 Special Edition and it was one of the racing scenes just prior to the spinouts. I dont' recall the chapter number since I just call it up from the kaleidescape's favorite scenes function.


----------



## zxlr8

How does a lady tell you she just had an orgasm on your chair? That has to be a very akward situation for her I would imagine. There has to be more to this story...


----------



## YldeSyde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, that demo was The Matrix Reloaded - freeway chase scene. It think it is chapters 19-22, but I am not sure. It is a long demo.
> 
> 
> advertguy2, that clip was Super Speedway: Mach 2 Special Edition and it was one of the racing scenes just prior to the spinouts. I dont' recall the chapter number since I just call it up from the kaleidescape's favorite scenes function.



hehe, I wonder how she would do with Nascar: The IMAX Experience.


----------



## rlindo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does a lady tell you she just had an orgasm on your chair? That has to be a very akward situation for her I would imagine. There has to be more to this story...



yeah I agree. I'd call BS but I don't know why anyone would lie about something so silly sooo, must somehow be true.


----------



## SmX

My D-Box Oddysey System arrive today, Thanks Alan!


I figured I would shoot some flicks to show what it is and all the components that comes with it.


Here is the whole D-box system. This is the PC3 system that is controlled by my HTPC.











Open up the small box











CDs, motion controller and power supply.





























Here is a close up of the motion controller. this hooks up to the PC via USB and the to the actuator control boxes via ethernet.


Front...












Back...


----------



## SmX

Continued...


Open up the big heavy box now...


These are the 2 boxes that hook up to the actuators along with the wire kit.











Underneath that is 2 Actuators and then under these 2 actuators is another 2 actuators.











Here is a shot of the complete D-Box Oddysey System...


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlindo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> yeah I agree. I'd call BS but I don't know why anyone would lie about something so silly sooo, must somehow be true.



I will let you guys know when i have my first orgasm on the D-Box, and in Rubens thread I will have to include detailed pictures and summary, I know you guys cant wait!


----------



## ronnie_jackson




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will let you guys know when i have my first orgasm on the D-Box, and in Rubens thread I will have to include detailed pictures and summary, I know you guys cant wait!




Dont forget to include the pics!











Ronnie


----------



## jmorris644

The actuators look so small! Are you sure you didn't accidentally get one of your neighbor's boxes by mistake? You know, your manager friend. They look more like a prop that Jenna would use in a video rather than something that can move 600 pounds.










Joe


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Ruben's only move 400 lbs per actuator, but I am sure Jenna could have some fun with one anyway.


----------



## ebr

Is that a brand new Danley that D-Box stuff is sitting on...?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that a brand new Danley that D-Box stuff is sitting on...?



Sure looks like it doesn't it. There goes the neighbor's chandalier.










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben's only move 400 lbs per actuator, but I am sure Jenna could have some fun with one anyway.



Meet day and you still have time to post? Is everything really that ready? AMAZING!!


Joe


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Checking for PM's and emails.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that a brand new Danley that D-Box stuff is sitting on...?



Yes it is, It came in last week. I am suppose to swap them out but I have had no helping hands here until after this weekend. Its impossible for me to lift the old sub from behind the screen wall by myself.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The actuators look so small! Are you sure you didn't accidentally get one of your neighbor's boxes by mistake? You know, your manager friend. They look more like a prop that Jenna would use in a video rather than something that can move 600 pounds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



LOL, Nah they are about 17" long and weigh quite a bit each.

Those bad boys would rip Jenna apart even with all her experience










All 4 of those combined move 1600lbs. I am probably going to put 3 berkliner 075's on them for now until they rip them apart and then upgrade to some other chairs.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I installed the D-Box software for the PC3 and it was pretty simple. The program even does a live update and downloads the latest motion codes automatically from the D-Box site. It took about an hour to download motion codes for every movie they have so far.


I got my aluminum guys coming tonight so I am going to give them the plans for the platform so they can make it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Guys, I just want to let you know that I will be selling my brand new D-Box Oddysee Platform system here at the AVS market place. I am going to get another type of system for my situation.


So if anyone is interested in owning a brand new D-Box Odyssey system for half the going price, send me a PM.

* HERE IS MY D-BOX LISTING ON AVS *


Thanks,

Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Just out of curiousity, why are you selling? You seemed all hot for it a while back, why the sudden 180??? Was the experience of these really that bad??


----------



## FusionRx

Ruben, isn't this the gizmo you have?? http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/01/s...ngs-the-hsdpa/ 


If its not out until Q4 this year, how'd you get your hands on one?


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just out of curiousity, why are you selling? You seemed all hot for it a while back, why the sudden 180??? Was the experience of these really that bad??



No, the experience wasn't bad - the system Ruben has is the 4400p and Ruben needs the 4600p for the application he wants to use with the D-BOX (application as in number of chairs in the install).


A 4400p is good for 2 chairs on a platform and just about any two people around or 3 chairs and 3 normal sized people or just slightly above normal size. You should not run over 3 recliners on a 4400p. I have 4 recliners on a 4600p and have had no problems, but I wouldn't recommend running that many heavy chairs on a 4400p. Remember that the 1600 lbs capacity is for the people, chairs, platform and frame and is the maximum static load. Live loads will vary depending on the size of the platform, but generally don't equate to more than 20% of the static load unless you are doing some serious cantilevering.


By the way, major news about D-BOX today:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718273


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> By the way, major news about D-BOX today:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718273



Pretty cool! Problem is, my wife won't let me get one unless I win the Lotto.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, the experience wasn't bad - the system Ruben has is the 4400p and Ruben needs the 4600p for the application he wants to use with the D-BOX (application as in number of chairs in the install).
> 
> 
> A 4400p is good for 2 chairs on a platform and just about any two people around or 3 chairs and 3 normal sized people or just slightly above normal size. You should not run over 3 recliners on a 4400p. I have 4 recliners on a 4600p and have had no problems, but I wouldn't recommend running that many heavy chairs on a 4400p. Remember that the 1600 lbs capacity is for the people, chairs, platform and frame and is the maximum static load. Live loads will vary depending on the size of the platform, but generally don't equate to more than 20% of the static load unless you are doing some serious cantilevering.
> 
> 
> By the way, major news about D-BOX today:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=718273



Yes, I am Fat










My chairs weigh 125 lbs each and all my freinds are big dudes too over 300 lbs. So I want to be able to do 3 of my chairs with 2 big friends and myself as the worst case scenario.


I would think if you have 4 100lb chairs and 4 200lb people you would be fine with this system. That's 1200lbs and you have 400lbs left for the platform which should weigh no more than 100lbs if you make it out of aluminum.


Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

It isn't the total weight I would worry about with 4 people on a 4400p, it is the width of the platform reducing the angular effect you can get.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, isn't this the gizmo you have?? http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/01/s...ngs-the-hsdpa/
> 
> 
> If its not out until Q4 this year, how'd you get your hands on one?



Yes that is the one I have. It is a Samsung Q1

I got mine here http://www.myicube.com/ 


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


How is the automation work going? Are you using the Q1 for any real purpose yet?


I bought 3 toshiba touch screen portables to place around the house to run Cinemar software.


I also purchased a small 7 inch touch panel that will reside just outside of my equipment rack. I am putting 4 cherry cabinet doors in fromt of my rack. This way I can control the htPC directly without opening up the doors.


But today I am putting my starred ceiling together.







Well, just the wood pieces anyway. The fabric arrives next week.


BYW, I found a GoM lookalike for 1/3 the price. I was searching for 703 and found this site. They also have the burlap (which is extremely close to the GoM)

http://www.atsacoustics.com 


One of these days, maybe this weekend, I am going to start my theater thread.


Joe


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Dazian Expocloth is supposed to be similar to GOM, 1/3 the price - - just limited selection. Just FYI.


----------



## SmX

Hi Folks,


I took some pictures in the theater last night. I am still doing some work on the room, like curving the screen wall to follow the screen, finish trimming the column covers, modify my projector hush box to accomodate the Isco lens, find some damn step lights that fit and some other little odds and ends.


Here are some pictures for the people that have been asking...

































































Those DVDs on the left of the theather are the first batch of DVDs I am archiving.

The Velodyne is the shiny black box on the right which I pulled out of there.











Here is one of the Klipsch THX Ultra 2's in a column without the cover











Here is the 16 terrabyte raid I am using for movie and music playback in the theater and the rest of the house. It still needs to be trimmed and finished. Those are the amps on the right that power the theater. I kept all this stuff outside the theater to keep noise and heat out of the theater. Those raids can be noisy.











Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here was one of Chirpies 3D renders of the theather...











Here is a picture from almost the sam angle...


----------



## CollinViegas

looks excellent, Did you sell 2 chairs? I thought you had 3 in the front and 4 in the back before?


Great work. Those stars really stick out!


----------



## Mark P

Spectacular!


Do your grille covers fit the way you want them to, or are they a little too tall?


----------



## SledgeHammer

Cool theater Sandman, but kind of not the smartest move building it in your garage. Its going to be impossible to sell your house now. Who would buy a house without a garage?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SledgeHammer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool theater Sandman, but kind of not the smartest move building it in your garage. Its going to be impossible to sell your house now. Who would buy a house without a garage?



Wow, I guess I should of thought of that before I did it. Too late now.










There are about 3 people in my neighborhood that use their garage to park cars, everyone else uses them to store junk. If and when it comes time to sell my house, the potential buyer will have the option to keep the theater or to get the garage back.


I made the theater without permanently altering the existsing garage. Yes, It will be a waste of about $10k in building materials if they chose to get the garage back, but that is not going to be the deal breaker. I much rather have a theater for a few years and tear it down and waste $10k than to not have one at all.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Spectacular!
> 
> 
> Do your grille covers fit the way you want them to, or are they a little too tall?



Thanks!


Stop being a wise ass Mark, you know they are too tall







I mentioned in the beginning of the above post with the pictures that I still have to trim them. They got pushed out a bit with the brackets I used to hold them in place. I have to take about 1/4" of them to be flush. When it stops raining here I will get to it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> looks excellent, Did you sell 2 chairs? I thought you had 3 in the front and 4 in the back before?
> 
> 
> Great work. Those stars really stick out!



Thanks,


I still have the chairs in the boxes. I will most likely be selling those. I am thinking about getting some less bulky chairs for the theater.


The stars are on full blast in those pictures. They are dimmable and get dimmed really low when watching a movie, they can be very distracting on full strength during a movie.


Need 2 more chairs?


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Stop being a wise ass Mark, you know they are too tall
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mentioned in the beginning of the above post with the pictures that I still have to trim them. They got pushed out a bit with the brackets I used to hold them in place. I have to take about 1/4" of them to be flush. When it stops raining here I will get to it.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Me knows nots how to read, just likes lookin at purdy pictures.


You really expect me to read when your mezmorizing me with those pictures?


----------



## SledgeHammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, I guess I should of thought of that before I did it. Too late now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are about 3 people in my neighborhood that use their garage to park cars, everyone else uses them to store junk. If and when it comes time to sell my house, the potential buyer will have the option to keep the theater or to get the garage back.
> 
> 
> I made the theater without permanently altering the existsing garage. Yes, It will be a waste of about $10k in building materials if they chose to get the garage back, but that is not going to be the deal breaker. I much rather have a theater for a few years and tear it down and waste $10k than to not have one at all.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yeah, I guess it depends where you live. Here in southern california, we are car fanatics. A lot of people down here wouldn't even rent an apartment without a garage. I'm a car / home theater fanatic, so I'm kind of stuck








.


I guess if you didn't alter the garage (like seal off the garage doors, etc) then its not as bad.


Must be nice to be able to "waste $10k" though


----------



## calv1n

Just amazing Ruben !!

Truly one of the best HT I've ever seen (as I'm sure most would agree).

If I did a walk through of your home after seeing that HT I'd forget to even ask (or care) if you had a garage.

Fantastic Job.

Cheers


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calv1n* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just amazing Ruben !!
> 
> Truly one of the best HT I've ever seen (as I'm sure most would agree).
> 
> If I did a walk through of your home after seeing that HT I'd forget to even ask (or care) if you had a garage.
> 
> Fantastic Job.
> 
> Cheers



Thank you very much. I did what I could with the space and skills I have. If I had a space to build a theater like Mark P, Art Sonneberg or MrPoindextor, I probably would of came up with a different idea. IF it was my choice, my ultimate theater size would be 20' x 30' x 12' maybe next house.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SledgeHammer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I guess it depends where you live. Here in southern california, we are car fanatics. A lot of people down here wouldn't even rent an apartment without a garage. I'm a car / home theater fanatic, so I'm kind of stuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> I guess if you didn't alter the garage (like seal off the garage doors, etc) then its not as bad.
> 
> 
> Must be nice to be able to "waste $10k" though



Yeah, out here in FL you need a car to get around. It's not like NY or CA where you got 24/7 public transportation. But mostly everyone around here parks their car in the driveway. I have a 4 car driveway so that is all I ever use.


The hardest part about me giving up the garage was about where was I going to store all my junk and tools. So I used a 5' x 20' part of my garage for the tools, threw away most of the junk, and stored the rest of my junk in guest bedroom closets in neat clean stackable containers. I recently went through all those closests and freed up some more space. I still got a ton of crap up there that I have no idea why I am saving.


Ruben


----------



## BritInVA

Sandman - it sure did turn out great. The star ceiling and curved ceiling look stunning!


----------



## SledgeHammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, out here in FL you need a car to get around. It's not like NY or CA where you got 24/7 public transportation. But mostly everyone around here parks their car in the driveway. I have a 4 car driveway so that is all I ever use.
> 
> 
> The hardest part about me giving up the garage was about where was I going to store all my junk and tools. So I used a 5' x 20' part of my garage for the tools, threw away most of the junk, and stored the rest of my junk in guest bedroom closets in neat clean stackable containers. I recently went through all those closests and freed up some more space. I still got a ton of crap up there that I have no idea why I am saving.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I used to live in NY, and yeah, you didn't really need a car because of public transportation or being able to get into the cab thats coming up the street.


California is not like that at ALL. There is pretty much *no* public transportation out here. We don't have subways, el-trains, etc. We have buses, but the schedules are very restrictive. You don't even really SEE cabs out here (except taking drunks home from the bars). Basically, if you want a cab, you call them, wait an hour or two for them to show up and you're off. There is ONE or TWO trains, but again, very restrictive. Pretty much, out here the deal is one car per driving member of the household.


You can't really park on the driveway, because there really isn't such a thing. Unless you are out in the boonies, or live in a much older area. With new homes, the drive way is about 2 or 3 feet long. Unless you get into the much more expensive homes. If you rent an apartment here with a garage and use it for storage, they'll send you a few warning letters and then toss you out.


As an example, a 1400 sq ft house with detached garage & 2 - 3 ft drive way in my area will run you about $600k these days. The real driveway is reserved for the million+ homes as a luxury item







.


Although one floor plan in my community optioned a bonus room above the garage. That would have been a sweet place to put a home theater.


----------



## phisch

Very nice job Ruben. Truely one of the nicest HT's I have seen.


----------



## Mr.Poindexter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - it sure did turn out great. The star ceiling and curved ceiling look stunning!



His ceiling is not curved - it just looks that way in one of the photos due to the light.


----------



## HDLife

Great planning, great vision with great result


----------



## SRHookEm

Sandman: I PM'd you. Did you get it?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Sweet pics Ruben. Im glad to finally see a series of shots in one place that shows everything.


Is that the Canon Rebel XT back in action?


Ronnie


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sweet pics Ruben. Im glad to finally see a series of shots in one place that shows everything.
> 
> 
> Is that the Canon Rebel XT back in action?
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Thanks Ronnie.

Yes, I got it back and now it has a pixel missing. Looks like it has to get sent out again.


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:

The room looks great.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SRHookEm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman: I PM'd you. Did you get it?




Yes I just responded to it.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> The room looks great.



Thanks Bob. Once I get my curved screenwall finished, I will post new pictures.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MATT LUKA 73* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Sandman,
> 
> I Just love what you've done to your HT. I've only just started reading your forum 2 days ago from Brisbane Australia and you've given me inspiration to build a great HT.
> 
> 
> As I've followed you're Thread(An Accomplishment in itself) I've followed you're highs and lows in regards to you're subwoofer system. Now down here where the Kangaroos jump around in our backyards we come up with our own ways of doing things. I started a small business a few years ago for intergrating furniture with subs. To cut a long story short, Iwas disappointed with the lack of tactile sensation you could receive with standard subs so we built high end recliners around sub boxes and attatched the arms, backs and everything else to the sub box. In effect creating a giant vibrating sub box, wrapped it in Nappa italian Leather and attatched the biggest stand alone Sub Amp we could get in Australia(350RMS Remote controlled). I Haven't had the pleasure of trying those motion Control Chairs ( I would Love To!!). But we had moderate Sucess in Manufacturing for high end HT Stores ( thin on the ground here in OZ). But I think I Was thinking to far In the future for our market and alas I Had to cut my losses and close the Business.
> 
> 
> The reason I Am writing to you sandman is that if anyone was to try an idea and run with it it would be you. I Have blown everyone one away with the sensation from the chairs including High end SubWoofer Reps. Your ass is only 6" inches away from a 10" inch down firing Sub so it makes it a "Personal" experience!
> 
> 
> With you're Awesome DIY Skills and the amount of gear you can source in you're country Im Sure that you could create the ultimate HT Experience. I Have enclosed some Photos of my buddy helping me put some chairs together a few years ago in which we hooked up 4 10" subs to One 350RMS Amp into two double loveseat recliners.
> 
> 
> I Have more photos and specs for anyone interestred.
> 
> 
> Keep up the Great work Sandman!



Sounds good, send me 2 of them


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman - it sure did turn out great. The star ceiling and curved ceiling look stunning!



Thanks Brit! The ceiling is not curved, the light gives it that effect though. I was going to do a curved ceiling but it was too much extra work for a slight curve.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SledgeHammer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I used to live in NY, and yeah, you didn't really need a car because of public transportation or being able to get into the cab thats coming up the street.
> 
> 
> California is not like that at ALL. There is pretty much *no* public transportation out here. We don't have subways, el-trains, etc. We have buses, but the schedules are very restrictive. You don't even really SEE cabs out here (except taking drunks home from the bars). Basically, if you want a cab, you call them, wait an hour or two for them to show up and you're off. There is ONE or TWO trains, but again, very restrictive. Pretty much, out here the deal is one car per driving member of the household.
> 
> 
> You can't really park on the driveway, because there really isn't such a thing. Unless you are out in the boonies, or live in a much older area. With new homes, the drive way is about 2 or 3 feet long. Unless you get into the much more expensive homes. If you rent an apartment here with a garage and use it for storage, they'll send you a few warning letters and then toss you out.
> 
> 
> As an example, a 1400 sq ft house with detached garage & 2 - 3 ft drive way in my area will run you about $600k these days. The real driveway is reserved for the million+ homes as a luxury item
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Although one floor plan in my community optioned a bonus room above the garage. That would have been a sweet place to put a home theater.



Cali is getting like NY I see as far as Real Estate pricing. Florida is getting outrageous too. The most expensive house on the market right now is in my county (Palm Beach County) made by Donald Trump and you can own it for a mere $125,000,000.00


Here is a HOUSE FOR SALE in my neighborhood with a Red and black movie theater and a star ceiling. They must of been reading AVS










Ruben


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben,


I am assuming that you switched out your center channel speaker to the Klipsch. At what height is it positioned? How did you mount it? Do you have any pictures? I think that is my question quota for the day so I'll stop there lol.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YldeSyde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I am assuming that you switched out your center channel speaker to the Klipsch. At what height is it positioned? How did you mount it? Do you have any pictures? I think that is my question quota for the day so I'll stop there lol.



Yes I did. I am waiting on my omnimounts 60.0's to mount them to the wall. I should be getting them Thursday. I'll be using the omnimounts Klipsch recommends because with that huge Danley laying on the floor behind my screen, there is no room for speaker stands. Right now the Klipschs are just resting on top of the Danley on top of rubber pads. They will be mounted a little below the middle of my SMX screen once they are mounted. I will be adding spotlights above them as well so when the lights are on in the theater you can see the speakers through the screen (thanks Art).


As soon as I get them mounted I will post pictures sometime this week.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I am Fat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My chairs weigh 125 lbs each and all my freinds are big dudes too over 300 lbs. So I want to be able to do 3 of my chairs with 2 big friends and myself as the worst case scenario.
> 
> 
> I would think if you have 4 100lb chairs and 4 200lb people you would be fine with this system. That's 1200lbs and you have 400lbs left for the platform which should weigh no more than 100lbs if you make it out of aluminum.
> 
> 
> Ruben




I feel your pain with the weight thing.. I am a meager 265lbs, but at 6'9" I carry it well







. Can't tell you the car seats (2) that I have broken, not to mention kitchen chairs(3), sofas (1), box springs (1) I have gone through, since manufacturers don't make these things for 'larger' people.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *phisch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very nice job Ruben. Truely one of the nicest HT's I have seen.



Thank You Very Much!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great planning, great vision with great result



Thanks HDLife. There was allot of changes throughout the build that changed from the original plans, but I am very happy I made them while I was going and not after it was all done. I saw better alternatives to things as I was building.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I feel your pain with the weight thing.. I am a meager 265lbs, but at 6'9" I carry it well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Can't tell you the car seats (2) that I have broken, not to mention kitchen chairs(3), sofas (1), box springs (1) I have gone through, since manufacturers don't make these things for 'larger' people.



Yeah I know what you mean. A real good friend of mine was on VH1's Celebrity Fit Club and lost 50lbs and gained it all back after it was over. He wants me to build his home theater, but I'm not trying to do this again until I get my next home.










Ruben


----------



## SledgeHammer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is a HOUSE FOR SALE in my neighborhood with a Red and black movie theater and a star ceiling. They must of been reading AVS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Nice house, now if only the bank would hurry up and open so I can get my certified $5M down payment







.


Yeah, I read about that $125M house. Somewhere on that list was the comment by the author that you can't even get in to look at these houses unless you have documented proof of 2x or 3x the price in CASH.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SledgeHammer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice house, now if only the bank would hurry up and open so I can get my certified $5M down payment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Yeah, I read about that $125M house. Somewhere on that list was the comment by the author that you can't even get in to look at these houses unless you have documented proof of 2x or 3x the price in CASH.



You can always put $2.5M down and pay $65,000.00 a month for 30 years.







That house is not even on the ocean or intercostal, it is in unpopulated area. The houses on the ocean are insanely expensive. I seen one for around $45M and I saw some empty land in between the intercostal and ocean for $88M


----------



## SmX

For everyone that keeps emailing me asking me for a link to my organized construction blog it is * HERE * . You must register to view it.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For everyone that keeps emailing me asking me for a link to my organized construction blog it is * HERE * . You must register to view it.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Is it against the rules to add the link to your signature?


Joe


----------



## Art Sonneborn
















Absolutely spectacular Ruben ! I guess now I need to read the whole thread .














A very very nice clean look which I personally like. Congratulations.










Art


----------



## YldeSyde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I did. I am waiting on my omnimounts 60.0's to mount them to the wall. I should be getting them Thursday. I'll be using the omnimounts Klipsch recommends because with that huge Danley laying on the floor behind my screen, there is no room for speaker stands. Right now the Klipschs are just resting on top of the Danley on top of rubber pads. They will be mounted a little below the middle of my SMX screen once they are mounted. I will be adding spotlights above them as well so when the lights are on in the theater you can see the speakers through the screen (thanks Art).
> 
> 
> As soon as I get them mounted I will post pictures sometime this week.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Do you have a link to where you found the Omni mount 60.0's? Their website only lists up to the 20.0's on their website. My center channel is 55lbs. so I wil likely need the same model as you.


Thanks for the help.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely spectacular Ruben ! I guess now I need to read the whole thread .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A very very nice clean look which I personally like. Congratulations.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Hi Art, Thank You for the compliment. I always wondered why you never posted in my thread.


As you may know, I modeled some of my design from your theater and I am now even going to use the lighting on the speakers behind the SmX screen like you did.


Ruben


----------



## Alan Gouger

Wow this is really something.


Very few theaters regardless of money come together where the colors and the design end up with that magic atmosphere.

I do not think it is something that can be planned. Its just happens and only a few get lucky.

Arts room is another one that has that magic atmosphere with the colors working together. Magic.

There are plenty of examples of theaters with everything mechanical done right with great effort and money spent and while the rooms turn out nice there is no guaranty everything will click for that seamless look and most do not have this magic. Nice rooms though. Hard to describe but this one clicks. Great work. Looks like a million dollars.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YldeSyde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to where you found the Omni mount 60.0's? Their website only lists up to the 20.0's on their website. My center channel is 55lbs. so I wil likely need the same model as you.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.



It took allot of research to find 3 of those. Nobody stocked them and there was 1 on ebay and 2 on some random sight. There is one on eBay right now for $50 eBay Item number: 160019128733 My speakers are back mounted so this stand works for me. If your speakers are bottom mounted, you may need another version of the 60.0. They have multiple versions of the 60.0 for different mounting situations ie. Wall mount, Ceiling and Floor mount and different extentions.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow this is really something.
> 
> 
> Very few theaters regardless of money come together where the colors and the design end up with that magic atmosphere.
> 
> I do not think it is something that can be planned. Its just happens and only a few get lucky.
> 
> Arts room is another one that has that magic atmosphere with the colors working together. Magic.
> 
> There are plenty of examples of theaters with everything mechanical done right with great effort and money spent and while the rooms turn out nice there is no guaranty everything will click for that seamless look and most do not have this magic. Nice rooms though. Hard to describe but this one clicks. Great work.



Thanks Alan, your theater and the whole AVS community gave me great inspiration as well. I love your colors and stage and thats what motivated me to do my stage and color choice in the fashion I did. When I saw a picture of your theater in the beginning, I never knew it was yours. I always thought Dennis Erskines theater was yours.


I'm now just happy to have a great room to enjoy movies in. I understand what you mean by "Magic" and I think when you have the opportunity to design and build your own room you can obtain that Magic by putting all your heart and soul into it. There are allot of great present and past theater builds here on AVS and everyone has their own great vision and had great results.


Now to just find a cheap Crestron system. My temporary harmony 880 is a big pain in the ass.


PS: I always wanted to see my theater in "The official 2.35:1 screen picture thread" Hint










Ruben


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Art, Thank You for the compliment. I always wondered why you never posted in my thread.
> 
> 
> As you may know, I modeled some of my design from your theater and I am now even going to use the lighting on the speakers behind the SmX screen like you did.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,

I'm embarrassed to say that I got away from the construction forum for a while so unless I saw a link in another forum like Mike's I missed it.







Glad to see there were things you liked about mine that you obviously improved upon.










The lighting behind the screen really does something to people I can vouch for that from my meet. I let the lights go completely down for a few second then these go on.


I'm glad to see that you are near the end so you will be able to just kick back for a while.


Art


----------



## CChoi83

Ruben, you get two thumbs and big toes up!









Congrats on such an amazing theater!!!


----------



## CAVX

WOW you've got my attention...


A well huge *WELL DONE*


Mark


----------



## laststarfighter

Looks like a $1,000,000 home theater.

Awesome Job!



are you still going to try the 2 subs together?


----------



## Mojo-TMH

Simply amazing. I've been lurking on this thread since day one and have enjoyed it immensely. It's nice to see the whole thing come together, even though you have a few odds and ends to tie up. And you'll probably decide that red and black is so 2005 and start from scratch










I don't want to get you off track but are you still working on the entrance to your theatre? Any progress there?


Again, amazing work Ruben you've inspired me and even though I'm not planning on building a dedicated theatre as nice as yours in my current home (fixer-upper I plan to sell in a few years) I am building a theatre on the cheap and I already have my SMX material to try my hand at building an AT screen.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I'm embarrassed to say that I got away from the construction forum for a while so unless I saw a link in another forum like Mike's I missed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see there were things you liked about mine that you obviously improved upon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lighting behind the screen really does something to people I can vouch for that from my meet. I let the lights go completely down for a few second then these go on.
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see that you are near the end so you will be able to just kick back for a while.
> 
> 
> Art



Why do you think I linked to him in the "whose the best designer" thread







as well as mentioned he probably doesnt have envy of even the most magnificent theater? Can you imagine what this would have been in some of the ultra large rooms around or one designed from the foundation up? After hours of conversations with Ruben I can assure you he takes this stuff seriously. How many folks arent happy with commercial screens so they go spend months researching to find an alternative that works better? We have discussed curtains several times and I have told him I would pass on the curtains altogether just because of the impact the room has now even though hes completely re-doing the front wall since he built his curved screen, last I talked to him, hes even pulling his chairs.


Simple and elegant while being complex and masculine at the same time is hard to achieve, the colors have been done before but seem to take on a different look because of how they are contrasted perfectly with the use of construction techniques used by the most qualified around. If its not the most spectacular theater around, its certainly the most incredible garage anyone will ever have.


----------



## kromkamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SledgeHammer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You don't even really SEE cabs out here (except taking drunks home from the bars). Basically, if you want a cab, you call them, wait an hour or two for them to show up and you're off.



I noticed this when I was down there a couple years ago. I knew there was no public transportation but what surprised be is how few taxis there are.


How do people go out for night on the town (including drinking)? It seems you always have to have a sober person, or hire a driver for the night! I guess the latter is what the beautiful people do, but I cant imagine thats what everyone does....


It would kill me not to be in a town where I can quickly wave a cab to get home at 3am










Andy K.


----------



## jwcrash




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kromkamp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I guess the latter is what the beautiful people do...



Don't you know that's all we are out here?


----------



## laststarfighter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> its certainly the most incredible garage anyone will ever have.



I think there's a garage over in Dubai that has a few formula 1 cars in it that might have that title, Jay Leno's is no slouch either


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CChoi83* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, you get two thumbs and big toes up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on such an amazing theater!!!



Thank You Very Much Ebert










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CAVX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOW you've got my attention...
> 
> 
> A well huge *WELL DONE*
> 
> 
> Mark



Thanks! I'm glad to see so many people like it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laststarfighter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like a $1,000,000 home theater.
> 
> Awesome Job!
> 
> 
> 
> are you still going to try the 2 subs together?




Thank You. Yes, I am going to try the pair of subs together this week.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mojo-TMH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Simply amazing. I've been lurking on this thread since day one and have enjoyed it immensely. It's nice to see the whole thing come together, even though you have a few odds and ends to tie up. And you'll probably decide that red and black is so 2005 and start from scratch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to get you off track but are you still working on the entrance to your theatre? Any progress there?
> 
> 
> Again, amazing work Ruben you've inspired me and even though I'm not planning on building a dedicated theatre as nice as yours in my current home (fixer-upper I plan to sell in a few years) I am building a theatre on the cheap and I already have my SMX material to try my hand at building an AT screen.



Thank You Very Much! I don't think I will get sick of the Red and Black combo anytime soon, like others said, it really clicks well and has a very good contrast.


In my last home I had a LCD projector shooting on a wall and it was a theater for me that I enjoyed. It was nothing like this, but I still enjoyed it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why do you think I linked to him in the "whose the best designer" thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> as well as mentioned he probably doesnt have envy of even the most magnificent theater? Can you imagine what this would have been in some of the ultra large rooms around or one designed from the foundation up? After hours of conversations with Ruben I can assure you he takes this stuff seriously. How many folks arent happy with commercial screens so they go spend months researching to find an alternative that works better? We have discussed curtains several times and I have told him I would pass on the curtains altogether just because of the impact the room has now even though hes completely re-doing the front wall since he built his curved screen, last I talked to him, hes even pulling his chairs.
> 
> 
> Simple and elegant while being complex and masculine at the same time is hard to achieve, the colors have been done before but seem to take on a different look because of how they are contrasted perfectly with the use of construction techniques used by the most qualified around. If its not the most spectacular theater around, its certainly the most incredible garage anyone will ever have.



I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. But in my next home, I will build or buy to have a bigger dedicated room. Then I will build a theater like Russel Simmons theater and be posting it on AVS again










Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *laststarfighter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think there's a garage over in Dubai that has a few formula 1 cars in it that might have that title, Jay Leno's is no slouch either



Dubai doesnt count, everything over there is insane http://images.google.com/images?q=pa...mages&ct=title 

We have checked into some of the do's and donts of this for a couple islands in Fiji that need some dredging and shaping for boats and such and the Dubai project like all their projects are based on insanity


----------



## chiphayes

Wow! Congrats Ruben! An absolutely spectacular looking room.


I too have been keeping tabs on this thread for many months, and have been waiting expectantly to see your final pics. The room really came together beautifully.


Now that we've finally started remodelling our new home, I'll be unabashedly copying many of the features you've implemented.


You're an inspiration and a true craftsman, and very generous for sharing your labors and the fruits thereof with all of us.


I can't wait to get my theater done and my SMX screen up!


Thanks for the many hours of education and entertainment...


Chip Hayes


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chiphayes* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow! Congrats Ruben! An absolutely spectacular looking room.
> 
> 
> I too have been keeping tabs on this thread for many months, and have been waiting expectantly to see your final pics. The room really came together beautifully.
> 
> 
> Now that we've finally started remodelling our new home, I'll be unabashedly copying many of the features you've implemented.
> 
> 
> You're an inspiration and a true craftsman, and very generous for sharing your labors and the fruits thereof with all of us.
> 
> 
> I can't wait to get my theater done and my SMX screen up!
> 
> 
> Thanks for the many hours of education and entertainment...
> 
> 
> Chip Hayes



Thank You for all the kind words. I wish you best of luck on your HT venture. Once it's done, it is an incredible experience to enjoy for many years. I am a huge movie buff and there is nothing better to me than having a dedicated theater for your at home movie enjoyment.


Ruben


----------



## The SAB

Ruben


I have beem following the progress on your home theater for many months now. I just wanted to say congratulations on building the best theater I ever seen.

Many happy years of viewing and please keep us posted on any new developments.


The Sab


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The SAB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben
> 
> 
> I have beem following the progress on your home theater for many months now. I just wanted to say congratulations on building the best theater I ever seen.
> 
> Many happy years of viewing and please keep us posted on any new developments.
> 
> 
> The Sab



Thank You very much! I will.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I am about to assemble my starred ceiling. Did you ever do anything about the seams? I remember at one point you had some different thoughts about them.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I am about to assemble my starred ceiling. Did you ever do anything about the seams? I remember at one point you had some different thoughts about them.
> 
> 
> Joe



I just left them there for the meantime. I don't really notice them unless it is really bright in the room from a real bright scene and I am looking at the ceiling. I was planning on getting some small black plastic T-moldings and wrap them with GoM and stick them in the seams.


Ruben


----------



## Haroon Malik

Ruben,


Your HT is truly amazing and beautiful.







It was a treat to read through this entire thread. Well worth it by far. Congratulations on a job well done. The creativity of yours is shining through in the finished product. Well done!


----------



## rlindo

Bah, that HT looks like CRAP.










Just kidding!!!! Ruben your HT is PHENOMENAL!!!


Your HT and Art's are by far my favourites here at AVS and if I were more into having a "fancy/detailed" HT with lots of trim, columns and stuff then I'd easily copy your design.










Again, incredible job there. Congrats.


----------



## SVonhof

rlindo, not to put down Sandman's or Art's theaters (they are both magnificent), but have you also drooled over MarkP's , Mr.Poindexter's , EBR's , JohnTech's .......


----------



## Jon V

Ruben,


> Quote:
> Thank You Very Much! I don't think I will get sick of the Red and Black combo anytime soon, like others said, it really clicks well and has a very good contrast.



Have you measured the contrast ratio of the seats?







Considering the level of detail elsewhere, i assume so.


Congratulations on a truly magnificent job, and thanks for all the inspiration and research. I hope to start on a Sandman-inspired star ceiling soon.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Haroon Malik* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Your HT is truly amazing and beautiful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a treat to read through this entire thread. Well worth it by far. Congratulations on a job well done. The creativity of yours is shining through in the finished product. Well done!



Thank You Very Much!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlindo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bah, that HT looks like CRAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding!!!! Ruben your HT is PHENOMENAL!!!
> 
> 
> Your HT and Art's are by far my favourites here at AVS and if I were more into having a "fancy/detailed" HT with lots of trim, columns and stuff then I'd easily copy your design.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, incredible job there. Congrats.



Thanks, I almost put a toilet in the middle of my theater










Like SVonhof said, there are many other very nice theaters here on AVS. For the most part I am very happy with how mine came out.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jon V* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> 
> Have you measured the contrast ratio of the seats?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Considering the level of detail elsewhere, i assume so.
> 
> 
> Congratulations on a truly magnificent job, and thanks for all the inspiration and research. I hope to start on a Sandman-inspired star ceiling soon.



Contrast Ratio on the chairs is 60,000:1










Thank You Very Much and good luck on the star ceiling build. If you need any help just ask or check out my theater construction blog at smxscreen.com


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Just a little update. I mounted lights behind my SmX AT screen to highlight the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers behind the screen before the movie starts. So basically, as the theater lights dim, the speaker lights behind the SmX screen raise for a few seconds and then dim once the movie starts. It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me










Ruben


----------



## v1rtu0s1ty

btw, how's your subwoofer doing? I remember I read somewhere on your thread that the subwoofer wasn't giving enough punch. Were you able to fix this issue?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *v1rtu0s1ty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> btw, how's your subwoofer doing? I remember I read somewhere on your thread that the subwoofer wasn't giving enough punch. Were you able to fix this issue?



Yeah, I got bigger sub, a Danley DTS-20 and a Klipsch THX Ultra 2 Series system. That fixed the problem.


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX:


You got that lights behind the screen to show the speakers idea from when you went to an IMAX theatre didn't you?

(BTW, if you keep this up, there will come a time when IMAX will come to you for help.)


----------



## chinadog

Yes, its pretty freakin' cool... no need to ask!


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX:
> 
> 
> You got that lights behind the screen to show the speakers idea from when you went to an IMAX theatre didn't you?
> 
> (BTW, if you keep this up, there will come a time when IMAX will come to you for help.)



I actually got the idea from Art Sonneborn. Although I have been told that IMAX does the same thing, I never have seen it done at the IMAX theaters I been to (maybe I get there too Late)?


Ruben


----------



## Driver

Sandman? You still selling that Velodyne HGS? PM'd you for a few picts a few weeks back...


By the way, the backlighting rocks, I'm sure the pictures don't even do it justice.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I love the effect of lighting the speakers up. I thought I mentioned it on here, but maybe I said it after Art? Did I even say it? I don't know anymore.


The IMAX movies I have been to where they light up the speakers is because they are showing off the 6-way speaker stacks that are MASSIVE as well as their subwoofer stacks which are even BIGGER! Way cool, but hard to copy in a home environment!


----------



## tshepherd

That is incredible Ruben. Simple touch but outstanding effect (at least from the picture).


Tom


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Very very cool !











Art


----------



## Dean Coop

Just need to add a life sized Alien figure behind there to scare the **** out of people










Sweet setup, the lights behind the screen would make listening to music better instead of staring at a big blank screen.


Dean


----------



## BritInVA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> . It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me.



Man - thats an understatement. Just when I think your HT can't get any better you pull another gem out the hat! Jeeze - you definently got my vote as best HT on the forum.


When are you actually going to sit back and enjoy?


Cheers,

Mark


----------



## zxlr8

You haven't seen ptrubeys then. His theater is far and away the best on the forum..


----------



## jandawil




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You haven't seen ptrubeys then. His theater is far and away the best on the forum..



Than you mis-read his quote. I believe he said


"you definitely got *my vote* as best HT on the forum."


That is his opinion so there is no need to correct him.


Ruben...that may be the coolest thing in a HT that I have ever seen that absolutely does nothing to enhance the audio/video quality of the movie. Who freaking cares...it just looks sweet!! I would just sit in there and look at my speakers. Great job on everything.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You haven't seen ptrubeys then. His theater is far and away the best on the forum..



I went to the thread for that theater and all of the image links are broken. Anyone know where I could find pics of this theater? Thanks.


Right now my favorite theaters on the forum are


- PeterS

- Art S

- Ruben


What can I say, I like the darker ones. That and I don't want too much stuff in the room, keep it clean and no gaudy crap.


----------



## CollinViegas

The term "best" is extremely subjective and changes with individual taste. For my taste Ruben has "MY" vote. I just looked at ptrubeys theater and while it is elegant, to me it seems way to over the top. Kind of like Steve Jenkins' theater. I am a more simple taste and mine would be a toss up between Arts theaater and Rubens for my favorite on the forum.


----------



## zxlr8

Well I guess you are all right. I like Ruben's a lot but it really is not even in the same class as ptrubey's. "ptrubey" could have bought multiple real movie theaters for the price he paid to have his one built. If it comes down to money spent at all, ptrubey wins by a landslide.

Each person has their own "perfect theater" they dream about. No doubt...


----------



## McCall

What's funny is we go to great lengths to conceal our speakers for a certain look, then light em up. LOL


Somehow I doubt my KEF bookshelfs and B&W Center would be all that impressive if I lit them behind my SMX screen.


Now if I has another projector that made it look like something was going on back there!


Hey Ruben it DOES look impressive, like everything else in your theater.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, I love the effect of lighting the speakers up. I thought I mentioned it on here, but maybe I said it after Art? Did I even say it? I don't know anymore.
> 
> 
> The IMAX movies I have been to where they light up the speakers is because they are showing off the 6-way speaker stacks that are MASSIVE as well as their subwoofer stacks which are even BIGGER! Way cool, but hard to copy in a home environment!



Thank You. I recently saw a post of Arts with his speakers lit and I loved the idea. I'm trying to find some blue 50 watt 120volt MR-16 style bulbs to use back there. The blue will look really good.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tshepherd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is incredible Ruben. Simple touch but outstanding effect (at least from the picture).
> 
> 
> Tom



Thank You, it looks much better In person to tell you the truth. It was hard to try to capture the room and the screen in a picture under the lighting conditions.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very very cool !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Thanks Art, and thank you for all the inspiration your theater gave me to do this build.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dean Coop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just need to add a life sized Alien figure behind there to scare the **** out of people
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sweet setup, the lights behind the screen would make listening to music better instead of staring at a big blank screen.
> 
> 
> Dean



Thanks! LOL, Now thats an idea










What looks really cool is watching the My Movies screen in Windows Media Center with the movie covers on and the speakers lit up behind the screen. It has this crazy futuristic floating effect like the image projected is a hologram floating in front of the speakers. I'm going to try to capture a picture of it, it may be hard though.


Ruben


----------



## prs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went to the thread for that theater and all of the image links are broken. Anyone know where I could find pics of this theater? Thanks.



http://htguys.com/archive/2005/September192005.html


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man - thats an understatement. Just when I think your HT can't get any better you pull another gem out the hat! Jeeze - you definently got my vote as best HT on the forum.
> 
> 
> When are you actually going to sit back and enjoy?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark



Thank You Very Much! I have been sitting back and enjoying It. I got 300 hours on the projector already.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You haven't seen ptrubeys then. His theater is far and away the best on the forum..



Yes ptrubeys theater is incredible, his theater is on a whole other level all together. The detail work and space the guy had was insane. My only complaint about his theater was I thought his screen was too small for such a big theater. I was trying to find a link without broken links to show Mark P a while back with no luck.


I thought I heard ptrubey was one of the owners of Yahoo! or something like that.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jandawil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben...that may be the coolest thing in a HT that I have ever seen that absolutely does nothing to enhance the audio/video quality of the movie. Who freaking cares...it just looks sweet!! I would just sit in there and look at my speakers. Great job on everything.



Thank You! When you listen to music with those lights on it seems like the music sounds better. Some weird perception thing I guess?


Ruben


----------



## zxlr8

Websense I believe...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I went to the thread for that theater and all of the image links are broken. Anyone know where I could find pics of this theater? Thanks.
> 
> 
> Right now my favorite theaters on the forum are
> 
> 
> - PeterS
> 
> - Art S
> 
> - Ruben
> 
> 
> What can I say, I like the darker ones. That and I don't want too much stuff in the room, keep it clean and no gaudy crap.



Thanks Chirpie. Also, thank you for doing the incredible life like 3D renders on my room.

Those renders helped me out big time in getting to where I went with this.


Do you have a link to PeterS theater? I did a search here but did not see any Theater construction threads started by him.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I guess you are all right. I like Ruben's a lot but it really is not even in the same class as ptrubey's. "ptrubey" could have bought multiple real movie theaters for the price he paid to have his one built. If it comes down to money spent at all, ptrubey wins by a landslide.
> 
> Each person has their own "perfect theater" they dream about. No doubt...



ptrubeys projector was $250k alone IIRC. If I was going to blow money like he did, my theater would look like Russel Simmons instead. I'm not big into the Victorian look right now. Maybe when I get a little older I will be into the Victorian look.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's funny is we go to great lengths to conceal our speakers for a certain look, then light em up. LOL
> 
> 
> Somehow I doubt my KEF bookshelfs and B&W Center would be all that impressive if I lit them behind my SMX screen.
> 
> 
> Now if I has another projector that made it look like something was going on back there!
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben it DOES look impressive, like everything else in your theater.



Thanks McCall. Since I have an audio transparent screen, I want to show visitors how the speakers are placed behind it. Keep in mind, the speakers are only lit up before the movie starts and then dim down as the movie begins. It's really only a coolness thing if you like that type of thing. Plus as was mentioned above, it gives you something cool to look at when listening to music.


Ruben


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I agree PTrubey spent a lot and got a lot but I wouldn't want it. The screen was tiny for that room and that projector which can easily light up a 20' wide screen ( but at 1500:1 sequential CR).


Art


----------



## zxlr8

Only at AVS would an 11 foot screen be called tiny...haha.. Seriously how big is the biggest screen on AVS? Mine is 10 feet and that is more than enough in my 15x25 room. I am not in the six figure salary range either...


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zxlr8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Only at AVS would an 11 foot screen be called tiny...haha.. Seriously how big is the biggest screen on AVS? Mine is 10 feet and that is more than enough in my 15x25 room. I am not in the six figure salary range either...



Wolfgang Mayer at just over 20' wide is the winner as far as I know. Understand this isn't a put down of anyone but just a preference thing. If I had a room with 15' ceilings and over 20' wide and 30' deep I'd have a 15' wide screen. The QX1 has the light and resolution I've seen it on a 20' screen.


Art


----------



## prs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I thought I heard ptrubey was one of the owners of Yahoo! or something like that.
> 
> 
> Ruben



http://www.sdmitforum.org/events/showbio.cfm?pre_id=10


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Chirpie. Also, thank you for doing the incredible life like 3D renders on my room.
> 
> Those renders helped me out big time in getting to where I went with this.
> 
> 
> Do you have a link to PeterS theater? I did a search here but did not see any Theater construction threads started by him.
> 
> 
> Ruben


 http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../500/ppuser/83 


Other than the slightly too busy carpet, I really like this theater. I particularly like the grill designs on the coulmns. If you like art deco, then you'll REALLY like it. I think Theo K. designed this one.


And I'm glad the renders helped.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, if you are watching a movie where you know that you have a scene where there is some lightning, you could flash the lights behind the screen at just the right time....











BTW, the most amazing thing about PTrubey's theater was what length he went through in order to even get it there! He built it below his driveway and lawn! I do agree though, why get a projector with such a large capacity onto to use a small (for that size theater) screen as well as only a portion of the available pixels.... Other than that, it is amazing. I have links to some other really cool theaters on my web site if people want to look:
http://www.vonhofs.com/theater/theaterlinks.html 


I think most of the links work, but Ruben needs to make a web site I can link to without requiring people to register!


BTW, check out:

Manthey's HUGE "Carpe Diem Theater" and Schindler's Theater in the heart of Switzerland liks.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank You. I recently saw a post of Arts with his speakers lit and I loved the idea. I'm trying to find some blue 50 watt 120volt MR-16 style bulbs to use back there. The blue will look really good.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Now isn't that a great idea.

I was lucky to be able to light mine at all now that I have the large Seaton mains. My front wall to the back of the screen is only two feet so the angle was bad. No question though at my meet when I turned the lights down I then hit those lights there were lots of whispers etc. Just the desired effect !










Art


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the speakers are only lit up before the movie starts and then dim down as the movie begins.
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Haven't you run out of Grafik Eye channels yet?










How are you controlling the Grafik Eye? Are you just using the scene capability in it or are you using something else?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Haven't you run out of Grafik Eye channels yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How are you controlling the Grafik Eye? Are you just using the scene capability in it or are you using something else?
> 
> 
> Joe



Actually I put those lights on a seperate Lutron spacer with an IR. So the remote tells it to raise for 5 - 10 seconds and then dim. On my graphic eye, I am only using 4 zones right now for


Stage Lights

Column Lights

Tray Lights

Starfield ceiling


I have a 5th zone wired for step lights (which I still need to find)

and a 6th zone for sconces (which I never installed)


I use all 4 scenes on the graphic eye.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Does anyone here know how to hook up a motion sensor to a Graphic Eye so when you walk into the theater the lights go to scene 1 or something?


Ruben


----------



## chinadog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 5th zone wired for step lights (which I still need to find.



Ruben,


I bought mine from here:
http://www.prolighting.com/steplighting.html I bought the first one "Incandescent Step Light 9-1/4"L 25W A19 Max"


A few other options: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...retry=4&af=349 


Bud


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I bought mine from here:
> http://www.prolighting.com/steplighting.html I bought the first one "Incandescent Step Light 9-1/4"L 25W A19 Max"
> 
> 
> A few other options: http://www.lightinguniverse.com/prod...retry=4&af=349
> 
> 
> Bud



Yes, I bought the same ones you did to realize they were way too big. I pre-cut my holes for 2 single gang boxes on each step. The low voltage Home Depot step lights would fit, but problem is I ran line voltage to the steps. So I need a regular sized step light in line vltage. The brick size step light will not fit.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## YONEXSP

Ruben, if you had to budget all the labout you put in, i.e for those of us aka Me, who are useless at construction, how much would you have had to pay?


I was gobsmacked by your setup, me wants me wants!!! It is the best along with Art's Ht I have ever seen! Incredible Kudos!


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YONEXSP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, if you had to budget all the labout you put in, i.e for those of us aka Me, who are useless at construction, how much would you have had to pay?
> 
> 
> I was gobsmacked by your setup, me wants me wants!!! It is the best along with Art's Ht I have ever seen! Incredible Kudos!



I would imagine if you had to pay a craftsman/carpenter to do what Ruben did, it would cost you 10s of thousands. That's if you could find someone who would put that kind of pride and dedication into it.


Perhaps Mr. Poindexter (if he's watching) can give a more definitive answer as, I believe, he hired out a lot of the work in his build.


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, I beleive there is a solution that somebody else posted on their construction thread, but right now, I just can't remember who it was that came up with it. Everything I remember is that it was line voltage, in a single gang box...


I don't know if I can find it, but I will look.


----------



## ebr

Here is one option I stumbled on http://www.ccl-light.com/docs/indoor...ght/index.html 


Maybe you could paint it...


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would imagine if you had to pay a craftsman/carpenter to do what Ruben did, it would cost you 10s of thousands. That's if you could find someone who would put that kind of pride and dedication into it.
> 
> 
> Perhaps Mr. Poindexter (if he's watching) can give a more definitive answer as, I believe, he hired out a lot of the work in his build.



It would be pretty pricey because it would first have to be someone that could perform the column work and curved screens and such. How many curved screens and columns have you seen on AVS? Exactly.


I am just guessing here but I would say $200 a square plus 10K for the labor


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know how to hook up a motion sensor to a Graphic Eye so when you walk into the theater the lights go to scene 1 or something?
> 
> 
> Ruben



I will be working on this in the near future but I have some ideas.


You can use an X-10 motion detector. This can talk to an X-10 receiver hooked to your htPC. Then you can use either Girder, Homeseer, or Cinemar to intercept the signal from X-10 and cause different actions to occur. One of the actions would be to send an IR signal through your USB-UIRT to tell the Grafik Eye what you want it to do.


I am currently using Cinemar and the USB-UIRT to control all of the IR in my component rack. So I can confirm that that much of the solution works perfectly. I also have Cinemar controlling X-10 lights in different areas of the house. So the 2-way X-10 receiver that I have works well too. I actually had to write a Cinemar plugin for the X-10 receiver that I have. I had purchased the X-10 USB one a while back. At some point I will change out X-10 for something more reliable. It is just not high on the priority yet.


I believe that all of the software mentioned above have either plugins or other ways to connect to X-10.


BTW, this would be the ONLY purpose that I would use X-10 for. IMO their equipment is extremely crappy and unreliable. But I have never had any problem with the motion sensors.


Also, I am pretty sure that I have all of the Grafik-Eye IR codes downloaded at home (I am at the office). I would be more than happy to send them to you if I do actually have them. FOr some of my components I populated the USB-UIRT Cinemar plugin via copy and paste rather than learning the IR from the original remote.


I hope at least some of this makes some sense.










Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will be working on this in the near future but I have some ideas.
> 
> 
> You can use an X-10 motion detector. This can talk to an X-10 receiver hooked to your htPC. Then you can use either Girder, Homeseer, or Cinemar to intercept the signal from X-10 and cause different actions to occur. One of the actions would be to send an IR signal through your USB-UIRT to tell the Grafik Eye what you want it to do.
> 
> 
> I am currently using Cinemar and the USB-UIRT to control all of the IR in my component rack. So I can confirm that that much of the solution works perfectly. I also have Cinemar controlling X-10 lights in different areas of the house. So the 2-way X-10 receiver that I have works well too. I actually had to write a Cinemar plugin for the X-10 receiver that I have. I had purchased the X-10 USB one a while back. At some point I will change out X-10 for something more reliable. It is just not high on the priority yet.
> 
> 
> I believe that all of the software mentioned above have either plugins or other ways to connect to X-10.
> 
> 
> BTW, this would be the ONLY purpose that I would use X-10 for. IMO their equipment is extremely crappy and unreliable. But I have never had any problem with the motion sensors.
> 
> 
> Also, I am pretty sure that I have all of the Grafik-Eye IR codes downloaded at home (I am at the office). I would be more than happy to send them to you if I do actually have them. FOr some of my components I populated the USB-UIRT Cinemar plugin via copy and paste rather than learning the IR from the original remote.
> 
> 
> I hope at least some of this makes some sense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



I'd like this type of functionality as well. However, it seems it may need to be a little more intelligent than you might first think. You would need some way to know if the lights were already on because you don't want your GE going to scene 1 every time someone moves a muscle in the theater...


Maybe you could put it outside, but then your dog/cat/kid walks by the theater while you're watching a movie and, whoa, let there be light.


Joe - have you thought about how to handle this situation?


----------



## Dean Coop

You would also have to worry about the event that someone needs to go to the can or get a drink or something during the movie...you don't want the lights to go on then either.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YONEXSP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben, if you had to budget all the labout you put in, i.e for those of us aka Me, who are useless at construction, how much would you have had to pay?
> 
> 
> I was gobsmacked by your setup, me wants me wants!!! It is the best along with Art's Ht I have ever seen! Incredible Kudos!




A couple people here on AVS took my plans to contracters to build an identical room like mine. They were quoted between $85k - $120k for just labor and building materials (equipment and chairs not included). I told them that was allot of money.


Ruben


----------



## tshepherd

Actually Ruben, it's not a lot of money for what you've accomplished. A friend of mine recently finished his basement and spent $90K to put in a media room, bar, small wine closet and pool table. Somewhat larger space than what you've got, but not twice as much, and he's got "white trim" throughout. About the only really expensive piece was the bar, and that wasn't all that much. So given your level of workmanship and the extra materials, I'd say those estimates are right in the ballpark, if not a little low.


Tom


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd like this type of functionality as well. However, it seems it may need to be a little more intelligent than you might first think. You would need some way to know if the lights were already on because you don't want your GE going to scene 1 every time someone moves a muscle in the theater...
> 
> 
> Maybe you could put it outside, but then your dog/cat/kid walks by the theater while you're watching a movie and, whoa, let there be light.
> 
> 
> Joe - have you thought about how to handle this situation?



Variable management. Within Cinemar (and I am sure the other software also) you can set variables as part of your action script. A very simple answer would be to set a variable that can be used to tell Cinemar to either send the Grafik-Eye signals or not. This variable can be set or reset in a number of ways. You can do it either via the motion sensor or even a key on a remote.


With the software there need be no direct relationship between a key on a remote and the functionality that it actually performs. For example, I took an old Denon CD player remote that I had sitting around. I programmed the keys of that remote, through USB-UIRT, Cinemar, and J.River Mediacenter and from anywhere in the house that I have an infrared receiver I can use the old CD player remote to control the MP3 files on my server. It works really slick!!! In this fashion you can use anything that generates an infrared signal and have it change the variable.


Joe


----------



## Mr.Tim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I bought the same ones you did to realize they were way too big. I pre-cut my holes for 2 single gang boxes on each step. The low voltage Home Depot step lights would fit, but problem is I ran line voltage to the steps. So I need a regular sized step light in line vltage. The brick size step light will not fit.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



You should be able to use the existing wiring for low voltage if the wiring is run to the step lights only and not tied in at any other boxes. You would just have to pull the wires from your line voltage Lutron box and connect them to a transformer.


Tim


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You should be able to use the existing wiring for low voltage if the wiring is run to the step lights only and not tied in at any other boxes. You would just have to pull the wires from your line voltage Lutron box and connect them to a transformer.
> 
> 
> Tim



Maybe I was being paraniod but I did not put any low voltage anywhere near my home theater. We had issues with hum in our kitchen with the low voltage and I definately did not want that issue in the theater.


Joe


----------



## wdill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone here know how to hook up a motion sensor to a Graphic Eye so when you walk into the theater the lights go to scene 1 or something?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Lutron does make an interface and motion sensor for just this purpose but I think as mentioned by others you may have problems with it activating when you don't want it to. I don't have a link to Lutron web site but look for a GRX-AV contact closure interface and motion sensor MOS-CM-15-WH. look in the commercial product line, not the residential. I think you would need a power supply for the motion sensor as well. total cost would be +- $500.00 for parts. Lutron make some pretty cool interfaces and other products for the Grafik Eye lineup.


by the way Ruben, fabulous room. I've quietly followed this thread from the beginning and was amazed and awed every time I looked.


I'm also the proud owner of your SMX screen and while I've only set up a temporary screen the picture it shows is awsome.


----------



## garykagan

If you get one make sure any motion from the seating does not trigger it off as well. That would blow...


Gary


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garykagan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you get one make sure any motion from the seating does not trigger it off as well. That would blow...
> 
> 
> Gary



No matter where you position it, it could be a problem. The only way this will work is with something like Joe described where the interface is intelligent enough to "know" (through status variables) whether or not it should trigger. I would think you would only want the motion to trigger a scene if your equipment was turned off or something like that.


Figures the Lurton solution would cost as much as the GE itself







. And, it wouldn't even work for our purposes.


----------



## SmX

Mini update,


I got some blue glass lens's for my lights behind the SmX screen to match the tray lights. Here are some shots...











Here is a closer shot of The Klipsch THX Ultra 2 speaker behind the SmX Screen...





























Ruben


----------



## McCall

Oh yes, that blue light makes it much more awsome!


----------



## datobin1

The blue makes it even better, very kewl effect.


----------



## laststarfighter

killer dude!



if you have any lights on while watching the movie you could have that output from the Grafik Eye trigger a relay to disconect the motion sensor.


----------



## mmoeller

Most impressive.....


I want to do an AT screen now just so it could be 1/10th as cool as yours. After all the hub bub about the sound quality, the cool factor just blew that away.


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,

You now need to get a big plexiglass SmX logo to put above the center speaker!


I am back in town now. Want to continue our discussions this weekend?


Joe


----------



## jbhungvt

Way Nice!!

You get the best of both worlds.


Show off your nice expensive speakers when not watching a movie. When watching a movie, your speakers are hidden out of sight.


Very nicely done.


----------



## Meddy

Don't know if you keep the door to the theater closed when not in use, but if you do, what about using a switch that inbeds into the door jamb and somehow hooks up to the GE. Then instead of motion, your lights would be triggered by simply opening the door. I've seen these used often in closets and I'm sure with your resourcefulness you would be able to make it work for your theater.


----------



## foolsandkings

The Omnimax Theater at the Boston Museum of Science does somthing silimar to this in their pre-show. There is a brief intro where they show-off the sound system of the theater by backlighting the screen.


Very cool indeed, sandman.


----------



## jmorris644

I was talking with Ruben about using the variable management process. The door is a good idea though. But you would still need to keep track of its state just like a motion sensor.


He had started down this road on his own but ran into problems. He is a really smart guy. I am confident we can work it out pretty satisfactorily.


The key for those interested is the USB-UIRT. A 2-way usb infrared device that can be totally controlled by the computer.


Joe


----------



## Neuner

I'm gone for a short while, and Wow, look what happens. Your theater is awesome. The HT in the real estate posting a couple of pages back cracked me up because that home was $12.9M and yours is so much better!


----------



## r2s26

Reuben


Sent you a PM concerning the Klipsch setup. did you receive it?


----------



## FusionRx

Just out of curiousity, since you seem to have most of the details in place, are you going to try and get the theatre THX certified? BTW, did you keep the dual Danley's? Or do you have the single Danley and the Klipsch sub(s)????


Great effect with the lighting. Does your theatre automatically play Metallica's: Enter Sandman when you step through the door?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *r2s26* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Reuben
> 
> 
> Sent you a PM concerning the Klipsch setup. did you receive it?



Yes I just responded to It. Sorry about the delay, But I get allot of PM's and emails everyday.


Ruben


----------



## miltimj

I like the blue better as well. Although I think the two light sources are distracting. Do you think it would look more evenly dispersed, yet still be able to direct it upward by using a rope light? How about on top and bottom, or on all sides? Perhaps use a pipe cut in half length wise with tin foil in it to direct the light toward the speakers. Just thinking out loud here...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I like the blue better as well. Although I think the two light sources are distracting. Do you think it would look more evenly dispersed, yet still be able to direct it upward by using a rope light? How about on top and bottom, or on all sides? Perhaps use a pipe cut in half length wise with tin foil in it to direct the light toward the speakers. Just thinking out loud here...



Yes, I am going to try to direct the light better. I just through a track light in there with 3 heads below the screen. The most direct way woud be to get some picture lights with long goose necks and postion them right next to the speakers. Or switch over to 12 volt lights and use spot lights instead of flood lights. They also sell light heads with canopies as well. I like the uplight look better than downlight on the speakers. It looks more dramatic. The blue light is allot dimmer than the white light so they are on full power with the lights really dim in the theater.


Ruben


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

If you could get the THX logo behind there too (perhaps above the speakers), that might look good.


Gary


----------



## FusionRx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Lightfoot* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you could get the THX logo behind there too (perhaps above the speakers), that might look good.
> 
> 
> Gary



I think he needs an SMX logo...


----------



## David Ferguson

I think you could keep the lights off the screen (and just on the speakers) by using a shade. Something could be made from sheetmetal easily enough, and you could prototype it with cardboard. For starters, just cut down a cardboard box and position it over your track lights.


If this doesn't make sense, I'll try to draw a picture.


----------



## Cesiumdeth

Ruben,

Could you elaborate a little more on your impressions of the Klipsch Ultra2 speakers in comparison to the other higher end speaker you had such as the Martin Logan and B&W? I currently just moved my 5.1 Sonus Faber system into the theater room I've been working on. I love the sound and soundstage for music, but I think the center channel (Sonus Faber Solo) just isn't detailed enough. I haven't set everything up yet, but even when I had the system in my living room I found myself straining to understand the dialog. I want to be able to watch a movie without having to try so hard. I'm powering them with a Krell HTS preamp and a Krell KAV-250a / 3 amp, so I don't think they are underpowered. I find it hard to believe that with such amazing sound and clarity the Sonus Faber Home system has in stereo, that the center speaker would be that far off.


I don't know maybe I have something setup wrong, but I'm very interested in the Klipsch Ultra2 for more of a movie theater experience and to clean up and give a more unified look to the front of the room. It is a dedicated home theater room, so maybe I did a wrong impulse buy thinking anything that sounded that good on music (the Sonus Faber Grand Pianos) must be a good choice for home theater.


Anyways, I'm babbling a little on my own personal situation, when I think the point is that many of us that feel that sound is just as, if not more, important than the video would be interested in having you compare the Klipsch to your previous Martin Logan and B&W speakers.


Thanks,

Daniel


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cesiumdeth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Could you elaborate a little more on your impressions of the Klipsch Ultra2 speakers in comparison to the other higher end speaker you had such as the Martin Logan and B&W? I currently just moved my 5.1 Sonus Faber system into the theater room I've been working on. I love the sound and soundstage for music, but I think the center channel (Sonus Faber Solo) just isn't detailed enough. I haven't set everything up yet, but even when I had the system in my living room I found myself straining to understand the dialog. I want to be able to watch a movie without having to try so hard. I'm powering them with a Krell HTS preamp and a Krell KAV-250a / 3 amp, so I don't think they are underpowered. I find it hard to believe that with such amazing sound and clarity the Sonus Faber Home system has in stereo, that the center speaker would be that far off.
> 
> 
> I don't know maybe I have something setup wrong, but I'm very interested in the Klipsch Ultra2 for more of a movie theater experience and to clean up and give a more unified look to the front of the room. It is a dedicated home theater room, so maybe I did a wrong impulse buy thinking anything that sounded that good on music (the Sonus Faber Grand Pianos) must be a good choice for home theater.
> 
> 
> Anyways, I'm babbling a little on my own personal situation, when I think the point is that many of us that feel that sound is just as, if not more, important than the video would be interested in having you compare the Klipsch to your previous Martin Logan and B&W speakers.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Daniel



Well first off, maybe your room needs to be treated. I loved the sound of my Logans in my main room but once I put them in the theater I just wasn't getting what I wanted. In movies, you need a system that has punch and detailed imaging. Like when I was watching Lucky # Sleven the other night, when the guy got shot in the beginning, I petty much felt the bullet hit me. It had realy good punch and that movie had some really nice bass parts too. Or in V for Vendetta when V was slicing up all the officers towards the end the blades were flying all around my room, the Domino scene was really good too.


We are all building dedicated theater rooms that are usually for movie watching and game playing. The Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers are made for movie watching and music stills sounds real good through them. So even if the music doesn't sound as good as my Logans in my main room due to the Logans being very transparent, the movies sound too good to pass up on the Klipschs.


My Logan Theater center channel was one of the best I've ever heard as far as dialog goes and I can happily say the Klipsch sounds just as detailed.


Also, the Klipsch high end smoothed out just like I was told that would happen. So now the Klipsch system sounds very smooth and not overly bright. I think Klipsch did a damn good job putting this system together. So if you are building a theater and have the money to spend its well worth checking out. You can also talk to Soundood here on AVS and maybe he can arrange a demo for you.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *David Ferguson* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think you could keep the lights off the screen (and just on the speakers) by using a shade. Something could be made from sheetmetal easily enough, and you could prototype it with cardboard. For starters, just cut down a cardboard box and position it over your track lights.
> 
> 
> If this doesn't make sense, I'll try to draw a picture.



It would be easier to buy new heads. You don't want things back there that rattle. I picked the heads I did because they didn't rattle at all. They make goose necks that attach to track lighting tracks. I may pick up 3 of those in black.


This is what I'm going to try in all black http://www.brilliantlighting.com/vie...e=204&pos=pos5 


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think he needs an SMX logo...



I really need a logo. Any Logo designers in the house?

How about best SmX logo design wins a free SmX screen?


Ruben


----------



## KERMIE

SandmanX,


Did you use the *KL*-525-THX for sides surrounds and the *KS*-525-THX for the rear or the other way around..?


----------



## KERMIE

A while back I was looking at doing


4- KS-525-THX for both my sides and rears


KL-525-THX LCR as all three front speakers


1- KW-120-THX sub


My room is 13x18 and it could be a little much with the 2 subs, plus I don't have the bucks right now...


Thoughts?


----------



## SmX

I used 3 KL-650-THX's as my Main L,C,R
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kl-650-thx.aspx 


4 KS-525-THX's for my surrounds
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/ks-525-thx.aspx 


and a Danley DTS-20 for my Sub.
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/DANLEY_dts20.htm 


Ruben


----------



## Gary Lightfoot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really need a logo. Any Logo designers in the house?
> 
> How about best SmX logo design wins a free SmX screen?
> 
> 
> Ruben



I'll start the ball riolling with a simple idea/design.


Gary


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I really need a logo. Any Logo designers in the house?
> 
> How about best SmX logo design wins a free SmX screen?
> 
> 
> Ruben



I'd be all about that. 


When you start the thread competition, post a link here, and I'll be happy to take multiple swings at it. ^_^


----------



## Mark P

on the pocket of a Pocket T-shirt











it has to fit on a screen frame with LED red











I guess if its going behind Rubens screen then


----------



## SVonhof

Ruben, if you want to re-do your lighting behind the screen, how about putting in a bunch of blue LED's that you mount in a DIY rail? Depending on the ones you get, they are very directional and if you need to dim them, it's a matter of changing the resistors that control how much power goes to them.


Just a thought.


They could be very compact and won't make any vibration noises or anything and don't put out much heat...


----------



## roar

I smell at photoshop, but I like the idea of incorporating your speakers in the graphic... though if you are looking for 'logo' I'd imagine you'd want something in vector that could be easily resized and manipulated.


----------



## YldeSyde

Ruben, how about a laser beam etching out whatever logo you choose on the front of your screen like at the rock concerts? and then a fog machine as well. Talk about POP. WOW. WHAM, and then they get hit with Danley subs!


P.S. Did you ever take pictures of how you mounted your center channel?


----------



## SmX

Hey Folks,


I am looking for a Logo for SmX. The winner with the best logo design will win a SmX Sound Screen. The contest will run for one week till Moday September 25th 2006. Winner will be determined by mass appeal and my personal judgement.


The Logo should Read "SmX Sound Screen" with SmX being dominate.

The colors I want to use is Red, Black and White. The Font I like is Copperplate which is the font used in the SmX logo below. You can use that font or another font of your choice. I want SmX to have an Uppercase "S" a lowercase "m" and an Uppercase "X"


Envision this being on the corner of the SmX screen frame on black velvet. I want it to be vectorized art as well. Keep it simple and easy to read and so the decal can have a nice die-cut shape.


Please post your Designs in the SmX Forum by clicking the link below...
* SMX LOGO DESIGN CONTEST *


Please Do Not post your logo designs in my AVS construction thread here. I will post the top 5 designs here for the final decision at the end of the contest. Make sure you use the link above to post your designs.


Here is an idea I was toying around with. Kind of Matrix looking I guess



















Good luck!!!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> on the pocket of a Pocket T-shirt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it has to fit on a screen frame with LED red
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess if its going behind Rubens screen then




LOL, Nice Slogan


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YldeSyde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> P.S. Did you ever take pictures of how you mounted your center channel?



All 3 speakers behind my screen are mounted the same way with Omnimount 60.0's to the wall. Basically it's a speaker wall mount with an isolation ball and pad to prevent transfer of energy to the wall.


Ruben


----------



## Cesiumdeth

Are you hooked on the slogan "Sound Screen"? I think something like "Acoustically Transparent Screen" may be a bit more descriptive and clear.


Just my .02


Daniel


----------



## McCall

I agree AT screen is better than sound screen that sounds like you are keeping sound out.


----------



## Wap

Dog, this theater is off the chain. I stumble on to this forum about a month ago, spent a week in the diy screen and then stumble on to this thread been reading it for 3 week. Just bought a house w/ a media room, tryn to hook it up. Im blown away with the the whole htpc, (over my head). Dog i plan on coping your exact htpc.


Would you change something since u had it for a couple weeks? Holla bac thanks.


Your theater is crazy! Im straight jacken. LOL


----------



## Tedd

Might pay to slow down there Wap! Vista is coming, hdcp video cards are slowly becoming available and Bluray and HD DVD drives should become available and cheaper.


Any of you htpc'ers following beatboy77's thread???

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=721358


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

Thanks for that link Ted.


I'd figured going this route was a little way off right now needing special mobo for the HDCP as well as the HDMI graphics card and Vista to run. By the time I'm ready to upgrade my HTPC things should be a little more avaialable (hopefully).


Gary


----------



## Tedd

HardOp has a list of hdcp enabled videocards and I beleive the Saphire X1600 Pro HDMI is the ony one with a hdmi, but there are DVI-hdmi adaptors and DVI-hdmi cables. Going from memory, all XT1950 and 7950 cards are hdcp enabled and there is a smattering of lesser video cards currently available.


Is a special motherboard needed for hdcp??? (I was about to spring for an Asus P5B Deluxe but hadn't heard anything about this.)


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

Hi Ted,


I read it somewhere on here, as apparently the HDCP has to pass from the source to the graphics card via the mobo, so that's why it has to be compliant. I've no idea if that will be the case though, but it seemed to make sense (I'm assuming beatboy77 didn't use a compliant mobo though?).


Gary


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cesiumdeth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Could you elaborate a little more on your impressions of the Klipsch Ultra2 speakers in comparison to the other higher end speaker you had such as the Martin Logan and B&W? I currently just moved my 5.1 Sonus Faber system into the theater room I've been working on. I love the sound and soundstage for music, but I think the center channel (Sonus Faber Solo) just isn't detailed enough. I haven't set everything up yet, but even when I had the system in my living room I found myself straining to understand the dialog. I want to be able to watch a movie without having to try so hard. I'm powering them with a Krell HTS preamp and a Krell KAV-250a / 3 amp, so I don't think they are underpowered. I find it hard to believe that with such amazing sound and clarity the Sonus Faber Home system has in stereo, that the center speaker would be that far off.
> 
> 
> I don't know maybe I have something setup wrong, but I'm very interested in the Klipsch Ultra2 for more of a movie theater experience and to clean up and give a more unified look to the front of the room. It is a dedicated home theater room, so maybe I did a wrong impulse buy thinking anything that sounded that good on music (the Sonus Faber Grand Pianos) must be a good choice for home theater.
> 
> 
> Anyways, I'm babbling a little on my own personal situation, when I think the point is that many of us that feel that sound is just as, if not more, important than the video would be interested in having you compare the Klipsch to your previous Martin Logan and B&W speakers.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Daniel



I may be just a little bit biased...but coming from a long time 2 channel background, I've found the THX Ultra 2 system is imminently satisfying as a music speaker. Its' home theater performance is just about unrivaled considering the size and price range...but we've been blown away by how good the music is in every Ultra 2 system I've sold and set up. We actually had a set of B&W Nautilus 801's and the matching Nautilus center that had been traded in when the Ultra 2 system first arrived and at the time we sold Legacy. After setting the Ultra 2's up and running them in...we did a comparo just for grins with a few good clients who had been waiting to hear the U2's. To everone's surprise, it was a toss up in many categories between the Nautilus 801's and the Ultra 2's which is one heck of a testimony to the Ultra 2 design considering the entire system cost less than the B&W Left center and right. For home theater, the Ultra 2 was very obviously better...but the music performance left everybody very impressed. Legacy quickly went bye bye.


Klipsch gets booted around a lot on the audiophile forums...but once folks hear that system, they tend to get very quiet and thoughtful. It is fun to see a little "Oh!" on their faces. Oh...and did I mention that it *is* a KICK BUTT home theater system too










Kevin


----------



## CollinViegas

I recently received my Klipsch Ultra 2 setup and did some A/B test with a few HD DVD's against a Definitive Technology Flagship Setup.


The front soundstage CLEARLY outperformed the Def Tech CLR3000 and BP7000sc in clarity and sound reprodction, the tones were as nice as I've ever heard. but I would have to say that the BPVX/P surround speakers from def tech came out on top of the KS-525-THX from Klipsch. They just seemed to have a bit more umph. There really is alot of bass information that is sent to the surrounds and the BPVX/P with their built in mini subs just made the back end of the room sound a bit fuller and more alive.


Overall I would say the Ultra 2 system is much more satisfying all around then the Def Techs so they were the clear winner and I am glad they arrived. I talked with Soundood a few times about purchasing my system from him, he was very polite and helpful I would recommend him anyday. I was actually going to buy Rubens other Danley sub from him but then I came across a crazy deal for 3x KL-650-THX and 4x KS-525-THX speakers {$2900 total} all brand new and factory sealed.


I still plan on going the Danley route in the future from Soundood, but It was just to good of a deal to pass on.


----------



## SmX

There is someone selling a Klipsch Ultra 2 system on eBay for $2700 right now. It comes with 3 KL-650-THX mains and 2 KS-525 surrounds. He also is selling the KW-120 Sub and Amp for like $1300 as a pair. The system is 1 year old the guy is saying.


Seems like a few people are selling their Klipsch Ultra 2 systems. There are used systems for sale on Audiogon as well.


Wonder why?


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wap* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dog, this theater is off the chain. I stumble on to this forum about a month ago, spent a week in the diy screen and then stumble on to this thread been reading it for 3 week. Just bought a house w/ a media room, tryn to hook it up. Im blown away with the the whole htpc, (over my head). Dog i plan on coping your exact htpc.
> 
> 
> Would you change something since u had it for a couple weeks? Holla bac thanks.
> 
> 
> Your theater is crazy! Im straight jacken. LOL



So, people who talk like this actually type this way as well?


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is someone selling a Klipsch Ultra 2 system on eBay for $2700 right now. It comes with 3 KL-650-THX mains and 2 KS-525 surrounds. He also is selling the KW-120 Sub and Amp for like $1300 as a pair. The system is 1 year old the guy is saying.
> 
> 
> Seems like a few people are selling their Klipsch Ultra 2 systems. There are used systems for sale on Audiogon as well.
> 
> 
> Wonder why?



Maybe they discovered DIY. J/K


Everyone has a different idea of what sounds good, some people like red, some like blue, some like flat, some like bright. Its funny when people talk about speakers and how they sound because what sounds bad to them may sound great to others. If you Klipsh sound good to you, dont listen to some audiophile nutjob telling you they dont.


The Klipsh K- horns from decades ago still sound better than some of the gimmicks they throw around these days for 50K, too me anyway.


----------



## CollinViegas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is someone selling a Klipsch Ultra 2 system on eBay for $2700 right now. It comes with 3 KL-650-THX mains and 2 KS-525 surrounds. He also is selling the KW-120 Sub and Amp for like $1300 as a pair. The system is 1 year old the guy is saying.
> 
> 
> Seems like a few people are selling their Klipsch Ultra 2 systems. There are used systems for sale on Audiogon as well.
> 
> 
> Wonder why?



There are a million reasons why someone would be upgraded or downgrading. Maybe they want to go from Movies to a high end 2ch system, or they are down on there luck and need a few bucks.


You can look for any brand of speaker on ebay and audiogon, there are tons of every kind for sale at great prices. There is even a Danley DTS-20 Sub for sale on Audiogon right now. Does that mean it is not an insane sub? No, It just means it doesn't fit in with that persons lifestyle or budget anymore.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is even a Danley DTS-20 Sub for sale on Audiogon right now.



Probably Ruben










Joe


----------



## Soundood

That DTS-20 is for sale because the guy is moving to a condo and I'm just venturing a guess that a common wall neighbor might be just a teeny bit ticked off by somebody bring a sub capable of 124 db at 20hz

















Definitely not Rubin's...that sub is supposed to have gone back to Danley to be fully checked over so it can be sold fully warranted, and will be available again once it has been blessed.


----------



## Wap

SVonhof


its harder to write then it is to talk. LOL


Whatz up big Rub? your HTPC is working good for you.


----------



## crackyflipside

Im definitely going to take your idea of lighting up behind the screen. WICKED cool, man. I'll probably do red lights, though.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Wap* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SVonhof
> 
> 
> its harder to write then it is to talk. LOL
> 
> 
> Whatz up big Rub? your HTPC is working good for you.



What up Cuz? Werd, my Ill ass HTPC be hittin it hard. nah mean? My jizoint be throwin' down for my dead homiez in da hizood, nah mean? This shiznit right here is the ill jump off. nah mean? Hollah back jacko.










One


----------



## Mark P

Exactly what I have been trying to say all along


----------



## warrenP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What up Cuz? Werd, my Ill ass HTPC be hittin it hard. nah mean? My jizoint be throwin' down for my dead homiez in da hizood, nah mean? This shiznit right here is the ill jump off. nah mean? Hollah back jacko.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One




Ahhh, the smile of my day so far. Thanks!











BTW, if you want to have some fun with this, please go visit: www.gizoogle.com Enter any domain name, and watch it get translated into, well, you'll see. In fact, go ahead and gizoogle the avsforum.com home page, you should get some laughs.


Now, back to the show!


----------



## chinadog

Good find WarrenP... I laughed my ass off:

http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php...2Findex.php%3F 


Bud


----------



## SRHookEm

The eBay auctions for Klipsch Ultra2 have been scams. I reported one and it was pulled almost immediately. They ask you to email and then they try to get you to send money overseas. SCAM!!


----------



## Wap

Thnks smx,


I knew u were feeling me; u heard me. On the real, I might have to try some of that SMX screen.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good find WarrenP... I laughed my ass off:
> 
> http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.php...2Findex.php%3F
> 
> 
> Bud



Man that link was the funniest thing I've seen in the last 2 years. I was laughing so hard I was crying. That is too funny.


"DVD Movie, Concerts, n Music Discussion n Reviews (29 Ho-slappin'

Chizzat on movies, concerts n tha like. This is not tha area fo` chizzay on DVD gangsta or pimp or multi-chizzles formats. NOTE...We do not allow tha C-H-to-tha-izzat on copy'n of software."


Ruben


----------



## warrenP

Glad you guys liked the link. Gizoogle.com has been around a while, and is always good for a laugh. I love to put serious stuff in there, so funny. My wife is a scrapbooker, and to see one of those pages translated... lots of fun.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man that link was the funniest thing I've seen in the last 2 years. I was laughing so hard I was crying. That is too funny.
> 
> 
> "DVD Movie, Concerts, n Music Discussion n Reviews (29 Ho-slappin'
> 
> Chizzat on movies, concerts n tha like. This is not tha area fo` chizzay on DVD gangsta or pimp or multi-chizzles formats. NOTE...We do not allow tha C-H-to-tha-izzat on copy'n of software."
> 
> 
> Ruben





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinadog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good find WarrenP... I laughed my ass off:
> 
> http://sites.gizoogle.com/index2.ph...%2Findex.php%3F
> 
> 
> Bud


----------



## SmX

Little update,


I was searching High and Low for some damn step lights that fit into my precut steps. Everywhere I went or looked they were too big, then I bought some online and got them and they were too big as well.


So the other day I was searching online for some Gooseneck track lights to use behind my SmX screen to concentrate the light better on the speakers then I came across this place in Boca Raton called Light Bulbs Etc. Every other place that had the goosenecks in stock only had them in white so I was going to get them in white and paint them black.


Then once I called Light Bulbs Etc. here in Boca they had 11 of them in Black. So I rushed over there to get them and while I was sitting in there at the counter I saw 4 step lights in black sitting on the counter. So I opened up a box and low and behold, it was exactly what I been looking for. They gave me a little transformer to pop in line and it was all set. So I finally got my step lights installed. It took me 6 months to find them, but I found them.















































Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


How much were the step lights and do they have any more? And did you hook them up to your Grafikeye?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How much were the step lights and do they have any more? And did you hook them up to your Grafikeye?
> 
> 
> Joe



They were $30 each, yes they have more.

Yes, they are hooked up to one of my Grafik Eye Zones.


I just grabbed an empty box and looked up the light online

Its a Dabmar lv106

http://www.dabmar.com/Page_B/lv603.htm 


They have them here locally...


Light Bulbs Unlimited

Address: 2273 N Federal Hwy, Boca Raton, FL 33431

Phone: (561) 338-5211


----------



## GPowers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> How much were the step lights and do they have any more? And did you hook them up to your Grafikeye?
> 
> 
> Joe



You can order them on-line for $24.29 at

http://www.arcadianlighting.com/lv-603.html


----------



## Mark P

I actually have 8 of them in my spare lights parts if anyone wants them, same identical light with black thumb screws instead of phillips. Mine have the boxes and I have mini transformers too. I wish I knew these were what you were after Ruben


----------



## Mr.Poindexter

Funny, I have the same thing in my theater. It only took me a week to find them, though.










Mine also have the thumb screws. Those are the same lights I have on the end panels of my seats as well.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Poindexter* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Funny, I have the same thing in my theater. It only took me a week to find them, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mine also have the thumb screws. Those are the same lights I have on the end panels of my seats as well.



I don't think I was looking hard enough. I saw the ones with the thumbscrews at home depot. They were too big as well, I needed a shallow box. Well at least it is now one more thing I get to check off the "To Do" list.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Are there any Z-Wave dealers here on AVS? If so, please PM me.

I am thinking about doing all the lighting in my house with Z-Wave RF switchers.

I may need about 50 Switches to start.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Regarding your HAi thermostats. If I read the info from the HAI website correctly these thermostats can be run via a serial connection. If you can get a serial cable from the thermostat to your htPC then you are all set. We can easily make it work. I am guessing that running serial over cat5 cable will work great too.


Joe


----------



## SmX

So Guys,


I decided to Make Cinemar my final choice for my theater and home automation. I was toying aroung with a few other automation softwares and decided I like Cinemar the best. I will be using it to control the lighting and temperature for my whole home as well as my theater.


I decided to go with Cinemar because the layouts you can make are endless and you can make some really super slick screens. Plus they have a plugin for TheaterTek which is my main movie player that I use. Their light control screens are incredible showing fans running in rooms and lights dimmed, etc.


I was thinking about using Control4 but I decided I don't like their unupgradable user system software.


Cestron and AMX are just too expensive and charge $500 to uprgade your software everytime you buy a new piece of equipment you'll be using with it. Plus if something happens with it, your assed out until a programmer shows up and fixes your issue.


So the next week here I will be setting it all up and posting some screen shots when done. I already started doing some layouts for it.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

So I figured I would post what I am doing now with my whole home and home theater automation.


First off I wanted to be able to control all the lights and tempurature in my house from my remote control and touch screen.


Unfortunately, my lighting in my house is not on its own individual breakers. My lighting and outlets for each room are tied together and run to a breaker for that room. So I needed to find a reliable solution to controlling my lights without rewiring my whole house.


So I first looked at x10, then ZWave, then Lutron Radio RF dimmers and finally insteon. x10 basically works off of your line voltage and sends signals through it to control devices. This is not 100% reliable because there are breaks in your lines and the signal sometimes does not make it to the receiving devices.


Then you have Zwave which is a dual mesh technology that uses RF signals and as well, uses the line voltage like the x10. After speaking to many automated zwave distributors, installers and users, everyone semed to recommend not using them due to their unreliability. So that killed the possibility of me using Zwave.


So next was Lutron Radio RF dimmer switches which uses the same technology as Zwave but is more reliable and more money. The Lutron dimmers average around $80-$90 per switch, whereas the Zwave switches are $40 each and x10 switches are around $10 each.


So after talking to many dealers, distributors, users and installers over the last 2 days, everyone recommended Insteon. Insteon is the same idea as Zwave, Lutron RadioRF and x10 and cost the same as Zwave except has a 99.97 reliability factor. So insteon is what I went with to control all the lighting in my home.


Here is a little info aout Insteon vs x10


A way to control your lights and appliances. INSTEON gives your hardwired lights, plug in lamps, and appliances an INSTEON address. Anything with an INSTEON address in your home can be controlled by INSTEON controllers. INSTEON uses an RF bridge to couple the two legs of your split phase electrical service . SmartLabs does not support INSTEON for 3 phase systems. INSTEON addresses are different than X10 addresses in that they are wholly unique, unlike the limited 256 possible addresses used in the X10 protocol.


Q2. Isn't INSTEON just like X10 only better? How is it better? What is the difference?


A2. Several things make INSTEON different from X10...


1. Both are powerline carriers, meaning they use the existing powerline in your home to communicate from product to product. However, INSTEON uses a duel-mesh network. RF link between two signal enhancers that bridge across the electrical phases in your home. In the future, more INSTEON products may be RF enabled.


2. INSTEON products make a network that is self re-enforcing for signal strength. Maintaining signal strength is X10's biggest challenge. INSTEON products, for the most part, inherently solve this issue.


3. The INSTEON network also has some built-in intelligence. The switches send back confirmation messages when they have received their commands. This helps assure reliability.


4. Each switch has it's own unique identification, called a MAC address (Media Access Control address). This allows many more possible addresses to be included in an INSTEON network. X10 only have 256 possible addresses.


5. INSTEON products can be associated with each other in almost unlimited ways through "LINKING". Each link can carry it's own settings for it's association with an INSTEON point of control, like a programmable button on a keypad, tabletop controller, or a 'master wall switch' that you create the links for, making INSTEON more flexible that almost any other remotely controllable lighting system on the market.


6. The switches are aesthetically very pleasing, and can be made to fit in with almost any décor.


7. The switches are very easy to install, because they are 25% thinner on the backside than other full-featured X10 switches on the market.


Q3. So why should I go with INSTEON instead of X10?


A3. One of X10's main weaknesses is signal strength loss, either from distance traveled, or interference from other devices, or perhaps the house that It is installed in does not have any X10 troubleshooting devices in place (like boosters, couplers, etc.).


With INSTEON, each of the INSTEON nodes (switches, modules, etc) is a repeater (like a booster) for INSTEON communications. This makes up for the main weakness of X10. The INSTEON system also has a way of coupling (bridging) across the phases in your home without a hardwired device (usually wired into your electrical panel) or a 220 outlet needed for getting the signal from one phase to the other.


With INSTEON we use 2 special RF linking devices that plug into regular grounded outlets for the signal bridging, so no special hardwired or 220 outlet is needed. Boosters are also not needed (in a system that has numerous INSTEON components) since the INSTEON products all repeat the INSTEON signal, making it a self-reinforcing system. X10 does not do this.


Q4. Ok, but INSTEON says it is compatible with X10. What does that mean exactly?


A4. All of the INSTEON switches and module are able to be given an X10 address, and controlled by X10 commands, and our V2 line of INSTEON products can be part of numerous Smarthome X10 Scenes.


Ruben


----------



## chiphayes

Ruben...


I've come to the same conclusions re: Insteon as well.


We're doing a complete remodel of our new house here, and I'm doing all the low-voltage wiring myself, as I have in our last couple of homes. I've decided on Insteon for the same reasons you have... it not only came out on top of the list for reliability, but it seemed to be a good bang for the buck, with basic switches only around $35.. I've since talked to a friend who has a modest Insteon system. He has had no problems with the system (no x10 type nightmares), and is very happy (he uses it only downstairs in the entertainmnent areas of his house.)


I had also been leaning toward Cinemar's ML product as a whole house controller, but as we're still in the demo/pouring footers phase, I hadn't made my mind up until your last post. That's when I re-visited the web site and saw how many more plug-ins they've added since the first part of the year.


I was already going with an Elk M1 Gold alarm system, and now that ML can interface with that (and both systems can interface with Insteon), I'm sold.


Now, hopefully ML will get a plug-in made for the Sonos system, which is what I"m using for whole-house music, and I'll be set.


Thanks for the affirmation on what I was leaning toward...


Chip


----------



## ebr

Funny - I guess we all think alike out here. I've got Insteon throughout my house with the new software (which is a bit clunky but works, mostly) to control it and I have an 8 zone Sonos system too.


I had RadioRA in my previous house and it worked flawlessly but was 2-3x the price of Insteon.


Ruben, I look forward to seeing how you tie all this stuff together.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Funny - I guess we all think alike out here. I've got Insteon throughout my house with the new software (which is a bit clunky but works, mostly) to control it and I have an 8 zone Sonos system too.
> 
> 
> I had RadioRA in my previous house and it worked flawlessly but was 2-3x the price of Insteon.
> 
> 
> Ruben, I look forward to seeing how you tie all this stuff together.



How is the Insteon working for you? As flawlessly as the Lutron?


Regarding the software, with Cinemar you won't need to use the insteon software. Cinemar has an Insteon plugin taht communicates directly with the insteon USB controller.


Joe


----------



## chiphayes




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How is the Insteon working for you? As flawlessly as the Lutron?
> 
> 
> Regarding the software, with Cinemar you won't need to use the insteon software. Cinemar has an Insteon plugin taht communicates directly with the insteon USB controller.
> 
> 
> Joe




And, as Ruben pointed out, it lets you create nifty room-layout diagrams to show you what lights/fans/controlled units are off/on.


----------



## Wap

Thanks again Ruben, for doing such great job on researching items. You may know this but you have many followers who rely on your attention to detail. You research it and we buy. I am also looking at a home auto system and will probably go with ireston and cinmar b/c of your great research. I have started building your computer (our computer







). Now i wish i had the funds like you







wife is trippen on the price







.


holla


----------



## ebr

Insteon is working fine. No, its not as flawless as RadioRA but for the price, its more than workable.


I don't really need the cinemar stuff as switches and keypads on the wall work very well to control lighting







- especially for the rest of my family and guests who would just be confused by a touch panel or other device to turn on a light. The SH software is rudimentary but it works to setup everything and I have timers and events that work well now.


I understand the appeal of Mario's stuff and I've looked at it several times, but, in the Theater and other AV situations I'm a "hard-button" guy. I even ditched the pronto and all other touch screens for my trusty MX-800 and MX-500s because I like to just "feel and hit" my play/pause etc. buttons with one hand.



As for music, the Sonos interface and controllers are very good so I don't really see a need to expand on that - but that's just me.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Insteon is working fine. No, its not as flawless as RadioRA but for the price, its more than workable.



So when you say Insteon is not as flawless as Lutron, what are the flaws Insteon has? It is suppose to have a 99.97% success rate.


Ruben


----------



## ebr

RadioRA was always rock solid, never had any issue at all. Insteon is pretty solid. As I said, definitely solid enough for normal use. Here are the "issues" I've had:


1) When you press a button on a RadioRA keypad everything tied to it responds instantly. Press "All off" and the whole house turns off right then. When you do the same with an Insteon keypad things respond, but slower. Depending on how many devices you have linked it can take anywhere from a couple to 15 or 20 seconds for everything to respond.


2) The above is exaggerated if you are using a separate controller to make the events happen. The software has some cool features like the ability to make a set of devices respond to double touches of keypads. When you run these events through the software there can be more of a lag.


3) I have had a couple of power surges hit my house where the power blinked off for a second or two. Each time, one of my Insteon keypads (different ones each time) went into some sort of "stuck" mode where all the backlights were on very dimly and it wouldn't respond to any button presses. I had to do a factory reset on the keypad and re-program all its functionality but the keypads did work properly after that.


4) Setting up the house is a bit trickier with Insteon than RadioRA. With RA you just put your repeaters in some obvious locations and everything talked nicely. With Insteon it takes a bit more trial and error in placing your Signal Enhancers around such that everything can talk together. But, once you do that, it works fine.


5) Tieing switches together in multiway circuits is a bit trickier with Insteon too - but also more flexible. RadioRA has special "accessory" switches/dimmers that go on multi-way circuits so they always are properly tied to their main switch (will always display the proper state of the controlled load). Insteon doesn't have any special switches for multi-ways. You just wire in a switch with no hookup to the load (cap off the traveller) and then use the programming functionality to tie it to the proper circuit. This drove my electrician nuts at first because he couldn't see how we were going to control a light when we didn't wire anything to it. I'm sure he thought it wouldn't work. It does work, but you have to be sure you cross tie everything properly so that the status lights work right. I still have some switches that aren't linked both ways I think because I keep finding switches with their LEDs all the way up when the light is off. Properly setup, this isn't an issue, though - except in one case and that is with sub buttons on a keypad. I have a keypad in my bedroom and when I hit the big "on" switch I want three different sets of lights to come on at pre-set levels. This works fine, but I also set the sub buttons to control the different lights independently. The problem is that when I hit the big "on/off" button the sub buttons aren't going to turn on and off properly because I cannot link them to the main on/off buttons as that would cause them to no longer control the individual loads properly. So, the net of all this is that the sub buttons pretty much never show the proper state of the load they are tied to so you may have to hit them twice to get them to operate properly.


6) The keypads are a bit cheesier looking than the RadioRA ones but I got over this pretty quickly.


7) I have a pet peeve with the backlights on the Insteon keypads and even the LEDs on the dimmers/switches - they are really bright. A keypad lights up my bedroom at night and I have it on the "dim" setting. I got over this pretty quickly too but it would really bother me in a theater room (I know you already have a GE in there so not an issue for you).



Having said all of that, there are things I can do with Insteon that I couldn't do with RadioRA - like the double click thing - and even though it is a bit slower to respond, everything does seem to work just fine in my Insteon system. I have no regrets about choosing it over RadioRA this time because it gives me the ability to have so much more of my house controlled for less money.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> RadioRA was always rock solid, never had any issue at all. Insteon is pretty solid. As I said, definitely solid enough for normal use. Here are the "issues" I've had:
> 
> 
> 1) When you press a button on a RadioRA keypad everything tied to it responds instantly. Press "All off" and the whole house turns off right then. When you do the same with an Insteon keypad things respond, but slower. Depending on how many devices you have linked it can take anywhere from a couple to 15 or 20 seconds for everything to respond.
> 
> 
> 2) The above is exaggerated if you are using a separate controller to make the events happen. The software has some cool features like the ability to make a set of devices respond to double touches of keypads. When you run these events through the software there can be more of a lag.
> 
> 
> 3) I have had a couple of power surges hit my house where the power blinked off for a second or two. Each time, one of my Insteon keypads (different ones each time) went into some sort of "stuck" mode where all the backlights were on very dimly and it wouldn't respond to any button presses. I had to do a factory reset on the keypad and re-program all its functionality but the keypads did work properly after that.
> 
> 
> 4) Setting up the house is a bit trickier with Insteon than RadioRA. With RA you just put your repeaters in some obvious locations and everything talked nicely. With Insteon it takes a bit more trial and error in placing your Signal Enhancers around such that everything can talk together. But, once you do that, it works fine.
> 
> 
> 5) Tieing switches together in multiway circuits is a bit trickier with Insteon too - but also more flexible. RadioRA has special "accessory" switches/dimmers that go on multi-way circuits so they always are properly tied to their main switch (will always display the proper state of the controlled load). Insteon doesn't have any special switches for multi-ways. You just wire in a switch with no hookup to the load (cap off the traveller) and then use the programming functionality to tie it to the proper circuit. This drove my electrician nuts at first because he couldn't see how we were going to control a light when we didn't wire anything to it. I'm sure he thought it wouldn't work. It does work, but you have to be sure you cross tie everything properly so that the status lights work right. I still have some switches that aren't linked both ways I think because I keep finding switches with their LEDs all the way up when the light is off. Properly setup, this isn't an issue, though - except in one case and that is with sub buttons on a keypad. I have a keypad in my bedroom and when I hit the big "on" switch I want three different sets of lights to come on at pre-set levels. This works fine, but I also set the sub buttons to control the different lights independently. The problem is that when I hit the big "on/off" button the sub buttons aren't going to turn on and off properly because I cannot link them to the main on/off buttons as that would cause them to no longer control the individual loads properly. So, the net of all this is that the sub buttons pretty much never show the proper state of the load they are tied to so you may have to hit them twice to get them to operate properly.
> 
> 
> 6) The keypads are a bit cheesier looking than the RadioRA ones but I got over this pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> 7) I have a pet peeve with the backlights on the Insteon keypads and even the LEDs on the dimmers/switches - they are really bright. A keypad lights up my bedroom at night and I have it on the "dim" setting. I got over this pretty quickly too but it would really bother me in a theater room (I know you already have a GE in there so not an issue for you).
> 
> 
> 
> Having said all of that, there are things I can do with Insteon that I couldn't do with RadioRA - like the double click thing - and even though it is a bit slower to respond, everything does seem to work just fine in my Insteon system. I have no regrets about choosing it over RadioRA this time because it gives me the ability to have so much more of my house controlled for less money.



Thanks for the breakdown ebr.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here is what I ordered today to begin the Home Automation Installation.


1 - ELK M1 GOLD Security and Automation System Panel


1 - M1 LIGHTING & THERMOSTAT INTERFACE - 12837


1 - INSTEON PowerLinc V2 Controller for the ELK-M1


50 - INSTEON SWITCHLINC V2 DIMMERS - 2476D


1 - 2-PACK INSTEON SIGNALINC RF - 2442P


1 - INSTEON POWERLINC CONTROLLER V2 USB - 2414U


1 - PANASONIC 971361 PAN/TILT WIRELESS CAMERA (IP-WEB)


2 - 3001 RS-485 THERMOSTATS


All this will tie into Cinemars Main Lobby so I can control


Whole house lighting

Temperature

Security Cameras (Pan, Tilt & Zoom)

Appliances (Ceiling Fans)


All the lighting, temperature and aplliances will talk back to the touchscreen remote via MainLobby to indicate if they are on or off, how dim the lights are, current temperature settings, Speed of ceiling fans, etc.


Ruben


----------



## accts4mjs

Is it possible to use a system like this to control a ceiling fan in conjunction with an HVAC thermostat. Let me explain ... our bedroom has a vaulted ceiling which is great in the summer because the hot air is up where we don't want it and the register is up high as well and sucks all the hot air out when the system is on. Unfortunately the exact opposite is true in the winter. The hot air is up high where we DON'T want it and it gets sucked out immediately while the system runs (registers are on the ceiling as well) and so our room tends to be colder than the rest of the house. If I turn the ceiling fan on real low with the fan blades pointed so it pushes the air down then the room is nice and toasty as it pushes the hot air from the registers to the floor before it can get sucked out the return vent (which I would assume gets the air displaced from the floor by the ceiling fan since it has to come from somewhere). However, just leaving the ceiling fan running doesn't work either as once the furnace turns off the room gets too cold from the breeze (I guess that's what it is). But if I turn the ceiling fan off as soon as the furnace shuts off the room is perfect.


So what I'd love is for a setup that turns the ceiling fan on when the furnace is on and turns it off when the furnace is off. Any suggestions from those of you that are familiar with this type of equipment?


Thanks,

Mike


----------



## AccessHA

Ruben,


Thanks for sharing your impressive build with the community here at AVS incredible job.


If you have any _*Insteon*_ related questions, stop by sometime.


AccessHA com
_*Access Home Automation*_


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it possible to use a system like this to control a ceiling fan in conjunction with an HVAC thermostat. Let me explain ... our bedroom has a vaulted ceiling which is great in the summer because the hot air is up where we don't want it and the register is up high as well and sucks all the hot air out when the system is on. Unfortunately the exact opposite is true in the winter. The hot air is up high where we DON'T want it and it gets sucked out immediately while the system runs (registers are on the ceiling as well) and so our room tends to be colder than the rest of the house. If I turn the ceiling fan on real low with the fan blades pointed so it pushes the air down then the room is nice and toasty as it pushes the hot air from the registers to the floor before it can get sucked out the return vent (which I would assume gets the air displaced from the floor by the ceiling fan since it has to come from somewhere). However, just leaving the ceiling fan running doesn't work either as once the furnace turns off the room gets too cold from the breeze (I guess that's what it is). But if I turn the ceiling fan off as soon as the furnace shuts off the room is perfect.
> 
> 
> So what I'd love is for a setup that turns the ceiling fan on when the furnace is on and turns it off when the furnace is off. Any suggestions from those of you that are familiar with this type of equipment?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



Abolutely doable. The thermostat will tell your control software (Cinemar) when it turns the furnace on and off. When it turns it off you can then have the software tell the fan to shut off and vice versa.


edit: BTW, Air movement does not affect a thermostat. Only temperature. So your fan pushing the warm air back down is, like you said, warming the room up. So the thermostat is seeing that warmer temperature and turning the furnace off.


Joe


----------



## AccessHA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is it possible to use a system like this to control a ceiling fan in conjunction with an HVAC thermostat.



Sure.



> Quote:
> So what I'd love is for a setup that turns the ceiling fan on when the furnace is on and turns it off when the furnace is off. Any suggestions from those of you that are familiar with this type of equipment?



How is your fan currently controlled? Is it simply connected to an on/off switch or do you have a remote installed?


You can use a system like Ruben describes to setup conditions like:.

IF the room reaches a certain temperature

THEN turn on the fan


AccessHA com
*Access Home Automation*


----------



## accts4mjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Abolutely doable. The thermostat will tell your control software (Cinemar) when it turns the furnace on and off. When it turns it off you can then have the software tell the fan to shut off and vice versa.
> 
> 
> Joe



Any links to where I could learn about the equipment and software I would need? And more importantly how much it will cost










Thanks,

Mike


----------



## AccessHA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any links to where I could learn about the equipment and software I would need? And more importantly how much it will cost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



Mike,


See my first post.


----------



## ebr

Ruben, not positive how big your house is but I'm guessing you will need a couple more signalLincs. I have 6 in my house.


----------



## Horta

Ruben


When you get a chance check you PM's. I have sent you two.


----------



## SmX

Update,


All my automated electronics arrived today. HEre is a quick picture of the Insteon light dimmer switch. I have 50 of these to install, lucky me




























Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Other than the number of LEDs, can you tell the difference between the v2 and the ICON switches? They seem to provide the same functionality at the 1/2 the price.


Joe


----------



## ebr

Joe - I can answer that as I have a few of the Icons in my system.


The Icon has a lower wattage rating than the std dimmer (300 vs. 600 I think). Also it has fewer options on ramp rates as well as not having any dimmer indicator lights. Other than that, they are pretty much functionally identical.


I put some Icons in some little-used locations where I still wanted control but didn't have to have the nice lights (front porch, under counter lights in kitchen, etc.). If you have some locations like that it can save you some $$ to use the Icons.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Other than the number of LEDs, can you tell the difference between the v2 and the ICON switches? They seem to provide the same functionality at the 1/2 the price.
> 
> 
> Joe



Hi Joe,


THe On/Off ICON switches don't dim. They are only for on and off. These ones I have dim so you can create moods for all your lighting. The On/Off ICONs are good for appliances with motors that need a direct on and off switch and fluorescent lighting. They do have dimmable ICON swithes though as ebr stated.


I got 20 light switches installed so far on the first floor of my house. It looks like I have one bad switch so far out of the first 20. I figured I will finish the rest tomorrow during the day when I can see what I am doing instead of dragging out extention cords and work lights tonight.


I also got a big water bubble blister on my index finger from twisting on 80 caps. It took me about 2 hours to do 20 light switches. I am going to see what else I need to do software wise to get these running off my PC with Main Lobby.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe - I can answer that as I have a few of the Icons in my system.
> 
> 
> The Icon has a lower wattage rating than the std dimmer (300 vs. 600 I think). Also it has fewer options on ramp rates as well as not having any dimmer indicator lights. Other than that, they are pretty much functionally identical.
> 
> 
> I put some Icons in some little-used locations where I still wanted control but didn't have to have the nice lights (front porch, under counter lights in kitchen, etc.). If you have some locations like that it can save you some $$ to use the Icons.




I just spoke to an Insteon rep and asked him the difference and he suggested to use them in closets at most for a higher end install. Also you can only control up to 30 Icons with 1 scene, whereas the V2's can do up to 417 switches with one scene. And 2 year warranty vs 1 year with the ICON.


Here are the the differences...


Scroll down to the chart..
http://www.smarthome.com/2876db.html


----------



## 68sting

Z-wave is only RF and doesn't use line voltage. Insteon seems to have lots of issues on the home automation forums. Check out www.cocoontech.com if want read up on home automation stuff.


----------



## jmorris644

LOL, Stupid me!!! I was looking and looking at this page and never clicked on the plus button to expand it and see the chart!!


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

OK, I have done some more reading and I think I understand but I am not sure.


If I am going to use MainLobby to control the lighting in the house do I really care about "scenes" in the dimmers themeselves? I would probably cinfgure maijnlobby to make the scenes.


Also I don't believe the speed of the level change is very important to me. A fixed .1 second would be fine. That would mean it will take 10 seconds to take an ICON dimmer from off to full. Correct? I cannot imagine a case where I would want 9 minutes between levels like the V2 dimmer offers.


I am only asking this mainly because of the price difference between the dimmers.


Joe


----------



## SmX

OK folks,


So I downloaded some free simple program from Smarthome to test out the 20 switches I installed so far. Everything works perfect so far.


This is what I did...


First I replaced 20 of my existing light switches with THESE 


Then I downloaded this simple free software to test the lights

Smarthome Manager Essential, Timer Software (.exe file) 3mb


Then I hooked up THIS to an outlet by my HTPC and hooked it up to the USB on my HTPC. This device sends the RF signal and line signal to the dimmer switches its called the POWERLINC CONTROLLER


Then I plugged in 2 of THESE in hidden outlets on the same floor of my house.


Then I opened the software and held a button on the POWERLINC CONTROLLER for 10 seconds until the software registered it and then you go push one of the light switches for 10 seconds until the software on the PC see the device ID. Then you name that dimmer and repeat the step again for each dimmer.


Right now I am controllng the lights in my driveway, swimming pool, courtyard, whole first floor all from my touch screen remote.


Pretty fricken rockin










Ruben


----------



## trpltongue

Ruben,


Do you know if the lights can be controlled via command line options or other "hidden" means? I'd like to be able to control my lights without having the software running in the background. I do that now via Girder and a Firecracker interface for X-10.


It sounds like a sweet setup!


Russell


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Also I don't believe the speed of the level change is very important to me. A fixed .1 second would be fine. That would mean it will take 10 seconds to take an ICON dimmer from off to full. Correct? I cannot imagine a case where I would want 9 minutes between levels like the V2 dimmer offers.
> 
> 
> ...



No, a .1 second ramp rate means the light basically turns on to its pre-set on-level instantly (in 1/10th of a second). That is the default, however, I like to use a .5 second ramp rate. Partially because that's what I was used to (that is the default with RadioRA) and partially because its kinda cool when your lights turn on and off "softly" like that.


The long ramp rates can be useful if you want to setup a timer that basically brings the lights up as the sun sets or something. Other than that, I agree, they're not really useful in real life situations.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Do you know if the lights can be controlled via command line options or other "hidden" means? I'd like to be able to control my lights without having the software running in the background. I do that now via Girder and a Firecracker interface for X-10.
> 
> 
> It sounds like a sweet setup!
> 
> 
> Russell



I believe you can assign X-10 addresses to Insteon devices and control them that way. Plus, there are several HA software packages that now support Insteon so there must be an API to send Insteon messages as well. Not sure how you get access to it, but maybe you could.


----------



## trpltongue

ebr,


The problem with using X-10 to control Insteon devices is that you loose the reliability and repeater functions of the insteon switches. I looked at insteon a while back and spoke to the smarthome folks about using insteon in X-10 mode. They advised that insteon switches in X-10 mode would be no more reliable than regular X-10 switches


----------



## mastiff34

The api for insteon is available for $100 =), I bought it and am working on a customer control solution for kicks =). Heck if it gets good maybe i'll sell it one day.


----------



## AccessHA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trpltongue* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Do you know if the lights can be controlled via command line options or other "hidden" means? I'd like to be able to control my lights without having the software running in the background. I do that now via Girder and a Firecracker interface for X-10.
> 
> 
> It sounds like a sweet setup!
> 
> 
> Russell



I believe Girder supports Insteon or they have a beta driver.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AccessHA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe Girder supports Insteon or they have a beta driver.



Yes they do and Cinemar is working on a beta.


Joe


----------



## AccessHA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes they do and Cinemar is working on a beta.
> 
> 
> Joe



Actually, Cinemar's is available now.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AccessHA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, Cinemar's is available now.



I just went to their website and it said it is still in beta.


Joe


----------



## AccessHA

Check this link:

http://www.cinemaronline.com/mlserver.mllighting.html


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AccessHA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Check this link:
> 
> http://www.cinemaronline.com/mlserver.mllighting.html



Ah, thanks. I was looking under the mlserver plugins from the link on the mlserver page and it stated there it was still under beta.


Joe


----------



## mcascio

That is correct. The Insteon Driver is available for MainLobby. We are continuing to add features though. We'll soon have an update that allows users to build groups and turn them on / off with a single command. The nice thing is that all the lights in that group will turn on/off rather than in a sequence.


Ruben,


By using the plugin, you won't have to do as many presses to the Set buttons like you have been. You only have to do it from the Switch to the PLC, but we are working on eliminating that step as well in a future release.


If you think you are having fun now, wait until you have it integrated into MainLobby and can select and control lights from the touch screen as well as see status. Or a ceiling fan spinning when it is on.











You can even dislay lifelike switches within MainLobby:


----------



## trpltongue

I can't believe Insteon is charging for the API ?


I'll look into Girder, though I am still running the old version so it probably isn't compatible.


Cinemar is looking light a really nice solution. I looked at Mainlobby way back in the day and decided it didn't have the additional features above myHTPC to warrant the price, but it looks like it's getting there now. I may have to look into Mainlobby for a future upgrade.


Russell


----------



## mcascio

Hi Russell,


Yes - we've been very busy the past year adding support for a lot of new devices. We just released the other day support for the NetCallerID box and an Speech plugin. So if you have an incoming call, you can have a voice speak the name and number of the caller over your whole house system.


You might act fast, we have a special right now running on MainLobby 3/MLServer 3 combo that expires September 30th.


----------



## ebr

Hey Mario. Sorry to hijack Ruben's thread here but its been quite a while since I last looked at your stuff (at least one theater build ago







). The only touchpanel device I have is an old progear. Did you ever get ML to run acceptably on such a low-powered device?


As I said before I am a "hard button" kind of guy, but I'm sure your interface would be much easier for the wife and kids to operate...


[Sorry, Ruben - Mario perhaps you can PM me to take this out of Sandman's thread]


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Mario. Sorry to hijack Ruben's thread here but its been quite a while since I last looked at your stuff (at least one theater build ago
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). The only touchpanel device I have is an old progear. Did you ever get ML to run acceptably on such a low-powered device?
> 
> 
> As I said before I am a "hard button" kind of guy, but I'm sure your interface would be much easier for the wife and kids to operate...
> 
> 
> [Sorry, Ruben - Mario perhaps you can PM me to take this out of Sandman's thread]



Naw, don't worry. Ruben is into this part of the process big time right now. I am sure he won't mind at all. In fact, I am going to be extremely rude







and copy a post that Mark P asked that I put into his thread. I think ,ebr, that you will find an answer to your tactile as well as graphic interface needs in my next post.










Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Here is an exact copy of my other post. If Ruben wishes me to delete it I will be moe than happy to.


Joe


---------------------------------

based on the title of this thread I am sure that this post is way off topic but Mark PMed me and asked if I would begin commenting here about the automation work that I have been doing.


Ok,


I thought that I would lay down some of my thoughts and experiences in working with the automation stuff.


First a few caveats:


1. I have spent about 9 months reviewing and testing different product combinations. I wanted a reliable and flexible solution that not only was priced reasonably but that fit my needs for capabilities and growth potential.


2. I am extremely computer literate so I probably lean more toward computer based solutions as they are not difficult for me.


3. After I had chosen Cinemar and Xantech for my combined solutions Mario hired my son as his flash developer. Although there are no current version of products with my son's work in them (all future stuff) I just want to make sure everyone understands that. Also, this did not make the financial part of Cinemar advantageous as I have paid full retail for all of the Cinemar software that I have.


4. I am just a DIY guy. I am no professional installer and I don't carry, sell, or recommend anything that I have not personally experienced.


5. These are all my personal opinions and nothing more. Please use them as you might see fit.


Ok, so here goes.


I have tried and/or used the following products: Cinemar, Xantech, Homeseer, USB-UIRT, CharmedQuark, Girder, X-10, Grafik-Eye, Windows Media Center, XP, CE, Pronto, Harmony, other non-name brand remotes, TheaterTek and more.


Devices that I am controlling X-10 lights, Grafik-Eye, Denon Receiver, 2 digital cable boxes, PVR, satellite box, DVD changer, DVD player, A/V house distribution system, multiple RF modulators, custom htPC which includes MP3 music and copied DVD movies, projector, multiple TVs.


My goals were to have whole house solution with a totally customizable graphical user interface that could interface with all of the devices above as well as the capability to control the same devices with a non-graphical handheld remote control.


With the exception of the X-10 lighting all of the devices above could be controlled via IR. Some have a serial control port but I focused mainly in IR. The only device that I am using serial control for is the Sony DVD changer.


With the requirement of both a customizable graphic interface as well as a handheld remote interface I narrowed the tools that I used down to Cinemar, Xantech, usb-uirt, and JP1 capable handheld remotes. I have successfully integrated all of these technologies into a suite that controls all of the devices in my house. I can talk about each of these in turn and why I chose them.


Cinemar - This is the main guts of which everything works. The combination of Cinemar and the usb-uirt device handles about 70% of the workload. The usb-uirt plugin from Cinemar provides the capability to learn and store the IR signals for each device that I wish to control as well as each button on the remotes for each device I wish to control. One afternoon I sat down and learned into the cinemar usbuirt plugin all of the remote control codes from all of the remotes that I have. Once having done this I now have the capability to "play" these codes on the htPC and the usbuirt device will transmit the appropriate ir signals. With cinemar's customizable screens it is then rather easy to associate an ir signal or series of ir signals to a button on the screen. Click the button and the ir signals are sent. It is literally that easy.


I know that the pronto and other remotes can do a similar activity but as I advance in the complexity of controlling the environment, with cinemar, I can begin to use state variables to keep track of whether devices are on or off, I can issue commands to the htPC windows environment and run programs, I can perform any activity on the Internet, and a host of other possibilities.


Xantech - I mainly use xantech for IR routing through the house and to the devices. It is fairly straight forward and works very well. The trickiest problem that I had with the IR was controlling the 2 cable boxes from different locations. Both cable boxes took the same ir signals so if my wife was watching the LIFE channel in the kitchen and I went to the theater and wanted to watch football it would also change the channel she was watching. Xantech makes a routable ir controller. So I simply tell this controller which port to routh the next coming ir signals and I can control which cable box sees which ir signals at what time. I thought this was just plain slick.


JP1 remotes - as I mentioned above I tried prontos, harmonys, and a myriad of other learning and programmable remotes. By accident I ran across JP1 remotes. These are remotes that are manufactured by a single Chinese company and have programmable eprom. A group of people have developed software that through a connection can completely program these remotes. I am in my early testing with the JP1 remotes but I have been able to take the codes that I learned into the usbuirt and copy and paste them into the JP1 remote just like I told a cinemar button what ir signal to send I am telling the JP1 remote buttons which signals to send. The process is ending up being fairly similar for both the gui based remotes and the tactile remotes. This is what I was hoping for.


Well, that is kind of where things are for me and what I have found to work. I hope that I have not intruded too much on this thread.


Joe


----------



## Skippard

I have to admit that I have long hoped that Ruben would get into DIY home automation. This is going to save me so much time on research and testing!!







Keep up the great work on everything Ruben!! HT came out spectatular!!


Skipp


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skippard* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have to admit that I have long hoped that Ruben would get into DIY home automation. This is going to save me so much time on research and testing!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep up the great work on everything Ruben!! HT came out spectatular!!
> 
> 
> Skipp



Thanks Skipp! Everything is coming along pretty good so far. I will update this thread shortly with my findings. So far the automated Insteon Dimmers work like a charm. They work everytime, the temporary free software I am using with it is a PITA though.


I basically spent the weekend laying out my floor plan for my whole house and outdoors to be used with the touchscreen. So basically, you click on the lighting button, your floorplan comes up and you click on the section of the house you want to control and it brings up all the switches for that part of the house.


I am only having a problem with Flash, because I don't know the application well. I am trying to make a simple 2 state button for each section of the floorplan. I can use Adobe Imageready to do it and output it as a .swf file but it doesn't work in a browser as 2 states when you click it. I have Flash MX but haven't used it for a while and can't seen to get it to do what I want it to do without making a huge project out of it.


Ruben


----------



## mcascio

Hi Ruben,


As far as creating clickable rooms, the trick to that is to just create the outline of the room and save it as a movie clip rather than a button. Then use the States capabilities of MainLobby to show whether the room is selected or not by adjusting the alpha level of that room. Just like the ones that ship with MainLobby.


If you want to send me some files I can provide a sample file of what a room would look like when created in Flash.


It's basically, import PNG into Flash onto Stage, trace Bitmap in Flash, then Save As. Not too much more than that on the flash side.


----------



## mcascio

Ruben,


Forgot to mention...you can customize the stock 0019 scenes that ship with MainLobby to fit your Q1 screen better. You could opt not to shrink the scenes down and develop for the true size of the Q1 which is 800x480. You'd have to manuever some of the content area around but it's completely up to the user how big they want their buttons and their placement. We just provide samples scenes to get you going and start the creative wheels a spinning.


For example, here are some scenes a dealer designed with MainLobby for his clients...completely different lighting scenes than what someone else may design.




















The only limit is your imagination.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> As far as creating clickable rooms, the trick to that is to just create the outline of the room and save it as a movie clip rather than a button. Then use the States capabilities of MainLobby to show whether the room is selected or not by adjusting the alpha level of that room. Just like the ones that ship with MainLobby.
> 
> 
> If you want to send me some files I can provide a sample file of what a room would look like when created in Flash.
> 
> 
> It's basically, import PNG into Flash onto Stage, trace Bitmap in Flash, then Save As. Not too much more than that on the flash side.



Say youre in a helicopter above your house and shoot an HD video of spinning down to just above your house, can you take this, make a AVI and then have it switch to a floor plan thats is rendered to look like youre actual house by a good renderer.


In other words when you bring up the floor plan your up above looking down and circle down, bust through the roof onto whatever floor you need?


----------



## Mark P

Anybody speak German? http://www.sbc-shop.nl/tatung-tx2000...87a05658db07af


----------



## posde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody speak German?



German, yes. Unfortunately your URL points to a site in dutch.


But what is your specific question with regards to that site.


rgds

posde


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *posde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> German, yes. Unfortunately your URL points to a site in dutch.
> 
> 
> But what is your specific question with regards to that site.
> 
> 
> rgds
> 
> posde



LOL, That is pretty funny (Don't worry Mark, I am laughing with you, not at you)










I think he would like it translated.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Mark,


A few to look at here.

http://www.akori.fr/eng_produits.html 


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben and Mark,


I just purchased a 10" air panel on Ebay. Should have it in a few days. I also got the person's name at Tatung to order from. I have sent her an email and will let you know as soon as I hear anything.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben and Mark,
> 
> 
> I just purchased a 10" air panel on Ebay. Should have it in a few days. I also got the person's name at Tatung to order from. I have sent her an email and will let you know as soon as I hear anything.
> 
> 
> Joe




Yeah, I told mark about that 10" Air Panel on eBay, but I guess he didn't go for it. Anyway, I personally think the airpanels are too slow. They are cool for browsing the internet and doing simple little things, but as far as a TouchScreen Remote with Flash graphics on it it takes forever to redraw pages everytime you change them.


I will stick with a Touchscreen with a built in HD and a dock. I do use the air panel everyday though to access my HTPC without going in the theater. It's great for installing programs and making setting changes in Main Lobby Server.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mcascio* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> As far as creating clickable rooms, the trick to that is to just create the outline of the room and save it as a movie clip rather than a button. Then use the States capabilities of MainLobby to show whether the room is selected or not by adjusting the alpha level of that room. Just like the ones that ship with MainLobby.
> 
> 
> If you want to send me some files I can provide a sample file of what a room would look like when created in Flash.
> 
> 
> It's basically, import PNG into Flash onto Stage, trace Bitmap in Flash, then Save As. Not too much more than that on the flash side.



Thanks Mario, I emailed you the floorplans I did.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I told mark about that 10" Air Panel on eBay, but I guess he didn't go for it. Anyway, I personally think the airpanels are too slow. They are cool for browsing the internet and doing simple little things, but as far as a TouchScreen Remote with Flash graphics on it it takes forever to redraw pages everytime you change them.
> 
> 
> I will stick with a Touchscreen with a built in HD and a dock. I do use the air panel everyday though to access my HTPC without going in the theater. It's great for installing programs and making setting changes in Main Lobby Server.
> 
> 
> Ruben



It is not the fact that it has a hard drive or not that makes the graphics slow. It is the processor speed. I agree that the air panel is too slow. That is why I think the tatung is the trick. It has a much faster processor.


Mark did try to buy an airpanel on ebay. He just missed the one I got.











Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *posde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> German, yes. Unfortunately your URL points to a site in dutch.
> 
> 
> But what is your specific question with regards to that site.
> 
> 
> rgds
> 
> posde



Dutch, German,

they all look the same too me, and I am German.


----------



## BasementBob

Subwoofers.


I came across this definition the other day, thought it was interesting in light of SandmanX's subwoofer situation/solution.



> Quote:
> from: Acoustics and Psychoacoustics 3rd by David M Howard, pg 315
> 
> 
> The cut-off region: the region below the lowest resonance, sometimes called the room cut-off region or the pressure zone frequency. In this region the room is smaller than a half wavelength in all dimensions. this does not mean that the room does not support sound propagation, in fact it behaves more like the air in a bicycle pump when the end is blocked. This means that the environment 'loads' any sources of sound in the room differently (such as loudspeakers or musical instruments), and often, but not always, the effect of this loading is to reduce the ability of the source to radiate sound into the room, and so results in reduced sound levels at these frequencies. this is because the acoustic impedance at the source is altered, making it harder for it to radiate sound. The low frequency cut-off can be calculated simply from
> 
> 
> f = 344 / (2 * L)
> 
> where L is the longest dimension of the room in meters,
> 
> and 344 is the speed of sound in meters per second.



Or to put it another way: more power too you.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is not the fact that it has a hard drive or not that makes the graphics slow. It is the processor speed. I agree that the air panel is too slow. That is why I think the tatung is the trick. It has a much faster processor.
> 
> 
> Mark did try to buy an airpanel on ebay. He just missed the one I got.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Joe, what's the plan for the airpanel? Remote control (Nevo) or surfin' ?


Al


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe, what's the plan for the airpanel? Remote control (Nevo) or surfin' ?
> 
> 
> Al



I have a 15 inch airpanel that I use for surfing. A saw a picture of Ruben holding the 10 inch in his hand and it looked much more wieldable so I wanted to get my hands on one. I will probably use it for both remote control(cinemar) and surfing. I think my wife, she's 5 feet tall and 100 pounds, will like the smaller footprint too.


In addition to the airpanels I have 3 toshiba tablet PCs that I plan on building frames for and placing on walls around the hose.


Joe


----------



## Mark P

Joe,

I snatched up a Toshiba laptop and the picture on the screen is amazing, do you like your Toshibas?


----------



## Zinema

Ruben,


first of all I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with us here - this is what makes this forum such a great place.


Your HT design and construction is fantastic - very well done! I have also started with real work on my HT project a few weeks ago and I hope you don't mind if some of my ideas are somehow influenced by your great work.










I have also a question concerning your sub - is it still placed beneath your screen? Did you experiment also with other locations?

The reason I ask is because I am going to build a sub myself which is pretty similar to your DTS-20. It is a dual transmission line with a 15 and a 14 driver - producing 114 dB at 20Hz, capable of reproducing 17-80 Hz.

I am going to place this monster on the rear end of the room behind the last row of seats and since my room dimensions are a bit smaller than yours I would like to get feedback about your bass set-up.


Thanks and keep up the excellent work!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe,
> 
> I snatched up a Toshiba laptop and the picture on the screen is amazing, do you like your Toshibas?



I bought some older ones with touch-screen. The touch screen is not as sensitive as the airpanels so you have to press much harder. I might be selling them soon on ebay. When I have time to play with them some more I will make a final decision.


Joe


----------



## Cesiumdeth

Ruben,

I went ahead and bought one Klipsch KL-650-THX speaker to try out before I bought the entire set. I love the sound and am planning on selling my Sonus Faber surround system and replacing it with the Klipsch. I have one question, the one speaker I got on the serial number sticker on the back of the speaker it says model number KL-650-THX *(L)*. I am being told by a dealer that there is a KL-650-THX *(R)* but no KL-650-THX *(C)* that the center uses a second KL-650-THX *(L)*. Could you check the model numbers on the back of your speakers and confirm this for me?


Thanks,

Daniel


----------



## jmorris644

I received my Airpanel 110 that I bought off Ebay. IT is so cute and tiny compared to the 15" model that I already had.


I really like it. I carry it all over the place and run all of my computers off just a litle 10" portable screen.


I think I might sell my Toshiba's and use these on the walls. I might take it apart and built it into a nice wood frame that I would mount on the wall. I agree with Mark, they are a little 60s scifi looking.


Joe


----------



## Nasty N8

Well it has only taken me 2 months to read through all of this but simply awesome I can not wait to get my new house and start my theater.


Nate


----------



## jmorris644

Hey Ruben,


You still around? I'll call you tonite.


Joe


----------



## SmX

Justanupdate,

We started framing out the new screenwall to accomodate the new curved SmX screen. My previous screenwall was straight with a 10 foot wide opening. The new screenwall is curved with a 12 foot wide opening.


Here is a quick picture of the framing almost done. I also have a live video feed of the theater being worked on but I an not figure out how to stream it over the internet. I do have an IP camera and access it via the web to see the video feed but it requires my personal password to see it.If anyone know show to stream webvideo let me know.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cesiumdeth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I went ahead and bought one Klipsch KL-650-THX speaker to try out before I bought the entire set. I love the sound and am planning on selling my Sonus Faber surround system and replacing it with the Klipsch. I have one question, the one speaker I got on the serial number sticker on the back of the speaker it says model number KL-650-THX *(L)*. I am being told by a dealer that there is a KL-650-THX *(R)* but no KL-650-THX *(C)* that the center uses a second KL-650-THX *(L)*. Could you check the model numbers on the back of your speakers and confirm this for me?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Daniel




Hi,


My speakers are labeled L, C & R. Even though the L & C are the same to my eyes, they were all individually identified.


Ruben


----------



## Frank D

Hey Ruben,


New frame for screen is looking really good.


How did you make those curved bottom and top plates? Did you take something like a 2x12 and cut it down to 2x4 in the shape of a curve?


Frank


----------



## Cam Man

The Klipsch THX U2 line doesn't have a specific center speaker. Either an additional left or right is used.


----------



## Cam Man

Ruben,

Did you consider placing your left and right main speakers out nearer the edge of your screen so that sfx pans got all the way across your screen? Seems like they will come up short/inside the corresponding visual as you have them now.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cam Man* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Did you consider placing your left and right main speakers out nearer the edge of your screen so that sfx pans got all the way across your screen? Seems like they will come up short/inside the corresponding visual as you have them now.



Yeah, now since I rebuilt my screenwall and spoke to BPape, I am going to spread them wider apart.


Also, I want to mention that ever since mentioned Fidelio Velvet on the forums, and need some now, everyone is sold out and backordered. I need some to finish some trim and may need to directly order a full bolt to get some. When I asked the few people that sell it why they are sold out, they said they don't know, it recently just started selling like crazy.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

I'll take some of that bolt










Joe


----------



## Tedd

I'd be interested in some of that bolt also.


----------



## Wap

I will take some


----------



## CollinViegas

What is the cost of Fidelio Velvet? I may be interested aswell...


----------



## accts4mjs

LOL! That's amazing! JoAnn's should give you a discount on the bolt since I'm sure the forum was what started the sellout. In fact, come to think of it you're the reason I bought it myself







I was reading up on what to do for my frame and saw a few threads on flat paint vs. velvet and saw a comparison on projectorcentral and then several threads referenced your photo of the different fabric comparisons and I was sold as soon as I saw how black that stuff is! It was like getting a mini black hole shipped to my house when I opened the package (someone on the forum sold me what they had left over).


Imagine you'd have an easy time offloading the rest of your bolt.


Mike


----------



## strange_brew

Sign me up for some of the velvet as well


----------



## jmorris644

Geez, now what the heck did I start. Are we doing to see SmX velvet now?










Joe


----------



## Mark P

We have Black velvet in abundance out here, the whole Fidelio is blacker than other black velvets is poo-poo from my comparison. Black Velvet is black velvet but then again I dont go to Jo-Anns. I use Upolsterer shops, Drapery places or any fabric store but Jo-Anns and their meek assortment


----------



## BasementBob




> Quote:
> Also, I want to mention that ever since mentioned Fidelio Velvet on the forums, and need some now, everyone is sold out and backordered. I need some to finish some trim and may need to directly order a full bolt to get some. When I asked the few people that sell it why they are sold out, they said they don't know, it recently just started selling like crazy.



I'm part of that problem.

I ordered a few yards of the stuff back in early September. It was back ordered then, with an estimated shipping date of October 10th. Hey, that's today. Maybe it'll arrive next week.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm part of that problem.
> 
> I ordered a few yards of the stuff back in early September. It was back ordered then, with an estimated shipping date of October 10th. Hey, that's today. Maybe it'll arrive next week.



JoAnns is suppose to receive it at the end of October and will be available in the stores 1st week in November. Use a 40% coupon and you can really save some $$ on a bolt of that stuff


----------



## BasementBob

swithey:

Is there an on-line link to JoAnn's for Fidelio Velvet ? I tried a search at http://www.joann.com but didn't get anything.


----------



## outsider142000

When I went a Joann's store in New Hampshire the store the manager said she had received many calls for it, so she called the ordering department to a get an accurate answer. Who ever she talk to told her that Joann's would get one final order in late October of 50 yards (not sure if that was for the northeast region or the country, but it was not for an individual store). Once this was sold they were going to switch to imported velvet at a reduced cost.


I needed 7 yards for a shadow box and she seemed to think only the larger Joann's would receive that much, so I ordered online.


"I ordered a few yards of the stuff back in early September. It was back ordered then, with an estimated shipping date of October 10th. Hey, that's today. Maybe it'll arrive next week. "


Sounds like we ordered from the same place and I just received noticed that it shipped today via priority mail and I should have it by the weekend!


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> swithey:
> 
> Is there an on-line link to JoAnn's for Fidelio Velvet ? I tried a search at http://www.joann.com but didn't get anything.



They do not show it online but you can call the online store and order it I think -- PN#1880251. You can also go into the store and special order it there as well.


----------



## Nasty N8

Hey Ruben I need some of that velvet too. The woman saw your screen and said we need to have a curved screen too.


Nate


----------



## SmX

Hey Folks,


I ordered some Blue LED rope light off eBay and just wanted to let you know its like 1 million times brighter (slight exaggeration) and bluer than the blue rope light I got from Loews.


So if your looking for rope light, I would consider LED before anyting else. I have my LED rope light plugged into a dimmable outlet in my soffit. It dims very nicely and doesn't color shift when it dims like the Loews rope light does.


Also, as some of you may know, I installed my Fiberoptic Star Ceiling light boxes inside my columns. Well those things were really loud and hot before I did my first modifications to them. So what we recently did was remove the fans from inside them and swapped the 50 watt MR-16 halogen bulb for a 21 LED MR-16 Style bulb.


Now the boxes are completely silent and run cool and the stars look much, much, much better. The stars now have that real authentic slightly blue color to them opposed to having the yellowish halogen color.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Folks,
> 
> 
> I ordered some Blue LED rope light off eBay and just wanted to let you know its like 1 million times brighter (slight exaggeration) and bluer than the blue rope light I got from Loews.
> 
> 
> So if your looking for rope light, I would consider LED before anyting else. I have my LED rope light plugged into a dimmable outlet in my soffit. It dims very nicely and doesn't color shift when it dims like the Loews rope light does.
> 
> 
> Also, as some of you may know, I installed my Fiberoptic Star Ceiling light boxes inside my columns. Well those things were really loud and hot before I did my first modifications to them. So what we recently did was remove the fans from inside them and swapped the 50 watt MR-16 halogen bulb for a 21 LED MR-16 Style bulb.
> 
> 
> Now the boxes are completely silent and run cool and the stars look much, much, much better. The stars now have that real authentic slightly blue color to them opposed to having the yellowish halogen color.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Are these both low voltage? If so, did you connect them to the grafik eye? Did you have to buy a low voltage adapter for the grafik eye? Where di dyou buy the MR-16?


Joe


----------



## VorlonFog

*Ruben:* I'm glad you mentioned the LED replacement bulbs. The noise and heat of a halogen or metal halide lamp is completely unnecessary when super-bright and ultra-bright white LEDs are in such widespread use these days. Do your boxes also have a twinkle wheel and if so, how loud is that motor?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Are these both low voltage? If so, did you connect them to the grafik eye? Did you have to buy a low voltage adapter for the grafik eye? Where di dyou buy the MR-16?
> 
> 
> Joe



The LED Rope light is line voltage (120v).

The fiber optic light boxes are line voltage as well with transformers inside them.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Thanks, I ordered a super white one. How did you plug it in? did you buy a receptacle from somewhere?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VorlonFog* /forum/post/0
> 
> *Ruben:* I'm glad you mentioned the LED replacement bulbs. The noise and heat of a halogen or metal halide lamp is completely unnecessary when super-bright and ultra-bright white LEDs are in such widespread use these days. Do your boxes also have a twinkle wheel and if so, how loud is that motor?



The twinkle wheel motor is very minimal in noise.

The noise of it does not travel any further than the columns.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I ordered a super white one. How did you plug it in? did you buy a receptacle from somewhere?
> 
> 
> Joe



It plugs right in the existing socket just like changing a regular MR-16 low voltage bulb.


Ruben


----------



## LewisCobb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Folks,
> 
> 
> I ordered some Blue LED rope light off eBay and just wanted to let you know its like 1 million times brighter (slight exaggeration) and bluer than the blue rope light I got from Loews.
> 
> 
> So if your looking for rope light, I would consider LED before anyting else. I have my LED rope light plugged into a dimmable outlet in my soffit. It dims very nicely and doesn't color shift when it dims like the Loews rope light does.
> 
> 
> Also, as some of you may know, I installed my Fiberoptic Star Ceiling light boxes inside my columns. Well those things were really loud and hot before I did my first modifications to them. So what we recently did was remove the fans from inside them and swapped the 50 watt MR-16 halogen bulb for a 21 LED MR-16 Style bulb.
> 
> 
> Now the boxes are completely silent and run cool and the stars look much, much, much better. The stars now have that real authentic slightly blue color to them opposed to having the yellowish halogen color.
> 
> 
> Ruben





Hi Ruben - are those light boxes dimmable? Just wondering as I would like to build a DIY light source based on these led lights and have been mulling over how to dim them....


Lewis


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LewisCobb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben - are those light boxes dimmable? Just wondering as I would like to build a DIY light source based on these led lights and have been mulling over how to dim them....
> 
> 
> Lewis



Yes, as long as you don't have fans in them.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, as long as you don't have fans in them.
> 
> 
> Ruben



When you dim it, how does it affect the spinning light wheel?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you dim it, how does it affect the spinning light wheel?
> 
> 
> Joe



Yes, right now the spinning wheel is on the same line and it slows down as the light dims. I will be putting another transformer in there to have 2 power sources for each box (one for the spinning wheel and the other for the light).


Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, right now the spinning wheel is on the same line and it slows down as the light dims. I will be putting another transformer in there to have 2 power sources for each box (one for the spinning wheel and the other for the light).
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


I was thinking about doing the same mod. Please let me know the specs of the transformer you used so I can do the same on mine.


On the twinkle speed, how fast is optimal? I was thinking about hooking up a cheap dimmer to control that independently of the light brightness.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I was thinking about doing the same mod. Please let me know the specs of the transformer you used so I can do the same on mine.
> 
> 
> On the twinkle speed, how fast is optimal? I was thinking about hooking up a cheap dimmer to control that independently of the light brightness.



With the LED MR-16 bulbs you wont really need to dim them. They are not an eye sore like the halogens were. I will snap a picture later of the difference between the two types of bulbs running trough the fibers since I have 2 light boxes and each box does 6 panels.


On the twinkle speed, slower is more realistic, fast spinning looks like a disco. Also you can control the randomness of the twinkle be positioning the fibers at different distances from the spinning wheel. So the closer the fibers are to the wheel, the more obvious the twinkle vs further away less obvious.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the LED MR-16 bulbs you wont really need to dim them. They are not an eye sore like the halogens were. I will snap a picture later of the difference between the two types of bulbs running trough the fibers since I have 2 light boxes and each box does 6 panels.
> 
> 
> On the twinkle speed, slower is more realistic, fast spinning looks like a disco. Also you can control the randomness of the twinkle be positioning the fibers at different distances from the spinning wheel. So the closer the fibers are to the wheel, the more obvious the twinkle vs further away less obvious.
> 
> 
> Ruben




I just want to let everyone know that those LED bulbs all burnt out. I don't know what happened, but they no longer work. They worked for about 15 minutes straight then died out. So back to the drawing board on that one.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just want to let everyone know that those LED bulbs all burnt out. I don't know what happened, but they no longer work. They worked for about 15 minutes straight then died out. So back to the drawing board on that one.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I bought one too. The sellers web site looks as if they would provide good support. You should give it a try.


Joe


----------



## Mark P

 http://www.convergentech.com/detail.aspx?ID=188 
http://www.dtresearch.com/prod_webDT366.html 


10.4 viewsonic altenative, I think I found the Tatungs as well


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.convergentech.com/detail.aspx?ID=188
> http://www.dtresearch.com/prod_webDT366.html
> 
> 
> 10.4 viewsonic altenative, I think I found the Tatungs as well



I still like the tx-2000 best.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> RadioRA was always rock solid, never had any issue at all. Insteon is pretty solid. As I said, definitely solid enough for normal use. Here are the "issues" I've had:
> 
> 
> 1) When you press a button on a RadioRA keypad everything tied to it responds instantly. Press "All off" and the whole house turns off right then. When you do the same with an Insteon keypad things respond, but slower. Depending on how many devices you have linked it can take anywhere from a couple to 15 or 20 seconds for everything to respond.



I wanted to comment on this. I have about 60 Insteon light switches installed and they all turn on or shut off simultaneously on the dime everytime with no delay. So otherwords, I have one button for all lights on and one for all lights off and they are on point. So far I have not had ant issues with them.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P

I must say that even with 120 Insteon Dimmers, switches, lamp dimmers, relays most everything works and nothing takes more than two seconds to operate but I do have switches that lose link after a couple days, If a switch is too close to the RF transmitters it seems the switch is overpowered by the transmitter somehow and takes more time for the PLC to find it when loading it for the first time. The 1000 Watt dimmers hum and you can hear them from 6' away. The Blue LED pipes are a must if you have 3-5 bay gangs or in all honesty they are needed everywhere if you dont want to be distracted by bright white LEDs shining at you. The blue really gives it that 2007 look that really looks cool compared to the old Lutron green LED thats so 1990 or maybe Hasbro or Mattel look.


The Insteons get hotter than heck for my comfort range but so far so good with almost 2 weeks of solid performance and last night got the " party" atmosphere workout for 12 hours which was everything instant on with individual ramp rates and then changing to different scenes via preset timers as the night wore on. I found that dimming them does cool them down considerably which suprised me, the old Lutrons had a habit of howling in very low dim mode, these dont, except the 1000 watt models but I have 800 plus watts on these and its not a loud hum but very faint.


If these still work this good 10 years from now they will get a two thumbs up at 1/2 the price of Lutron


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wanted to comment on this. I have about 60 Insteon light switches installed and they all turn on or shut off simultaneously on the dime everytime with no delay. So otherwords, I have one button for all lights on and one for all lights off and they are on point. So far I have not had ant issues with them.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I have some that seem to work instantly like that and others that don't. I think there are probably a couple of reasons. One, I had a devil of a time getting all my switches to "see" each other. I had to place those RF repeaters all over the place before I found spots that seemed to work consistently. This may or may not have to do with the fact that I have two electrical panels or the fact that my house is spread out across three floors. Two, I use the software for quite a few things (events and timers). This is cool functionality, but that is where the delays usually come from. My "away" event that shuts down most lights except for a few takes about 20 seconds to run completely as does my midnight, "shut down all the lights" timer. I also have had some times where one light just doesn't shut down when its supposed to - these are pretty rare, however.


In short, Insteon is worth it for 1/2 the price of RadioRA. I'm glad I went with it.


----------



## jmorris644

Hey Ruben,


I know that folks really liked your screen material but I had not realized how large you have branched out. Got your own fleet of trucks now huh?










Joe


----------



## mcascio




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have some that seem to work instantly like that and others that don't. I think there are probably a couple of reasons. One, I had a devil of a time getting all my switches to "see" each other. I had to place those RF repeaters all over the place before I found spots that seemed to work consistently. This may or may not have to do with the fact that I have two electrical panels or the fact that my house is spread out across three floors. Two, I use the software for quite a few things (events and timers). This is cool functionality, but that is where the delays usually come from. My "away" event that shuts down most lights except for a few takes about 20 seconds to run completely as does my midnight, "shut down all the lights" timer. I also have had some times where one light just doesn't shut down when its supposed to - these are pretty rare, however.
> 
> 
> In short, Insteon is worth it for 1/2 the price of RadioRA. I'm glad I went with it.



ebr,


Having dead or missing links in your switches/plc can cause slow downs when controlled from 3rd party software. You may see if you can remove the dead links and see if that improves performance.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben,
> 
> 
> I know that folks really liked your screen material but I had not realized how large you have branched out. Got your own fleet of trucks now huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe




Yeah, I had to start off small with 5 trailers, but after about 6 months in full production we should have about 50 trailers.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just want to let everyone know that those LED bulbs all burnt out. I don't know what happened, but they no longer work. They worked for about 15 minutes straight then died out. So back to the drawing board on that one.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I've be willing to bet the transformer in your lightbox is outputting too much voltage. 12 volt LED bulbs need a transformer that is both tightly regulated (anything over 13 volts is the kiss of death) and must not pass more than the rated wattage of the bulbs being driven or they will do just that...poof. If you did a plug and play thing, you likely plugged the bulbs into an unregulated transformer outputting WAY too much wattage at too high a voltage. It was likely designed to drive the regular MR-16's and probably the fans too. The Bulbs likely burned Nova bright for an LED bulb and then went poof.










Also, another thing to note...on most 120v LED rope lights, they will dim, but you may pretty seriously cut the life span of the light down (forget the 100,000 hour thing). You have to use electronic dimming drivers (usually PWM) to do it properly...not reducing the voltage or wattage, but instead turning them on and off VERY quickly (the more "off" time, the dimmer they are). The good thing is that when you properly dim them, they will last even longer.


One last thing...there is a myth that LED lights run totally cool. That is false. Individually, LED lights don't generate much heat, but together they can generate a good amount and you have to take it into account. The newer high wattage 3 and 6 watt LED modules run hot and ultra bright (the 6 watt you can't even look at). You may be tempted to run one of the 1 watt Luxeon MR-16's in your light box (particularly if the properly voltage regulated 22 LED bulb is too dim), but you should put a super quiet computer fan in there run off it's own power supply.


LED's are worth the effort since they offer a far more pure light, have zero electronic noise, and are WAY more efficient and last far longer than regular lighting. But they are a different beast from any other kind of lighting.


----------



## Rop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> . . . . . . and are WAY more efficient and last far longer than regular lighting. . . . . .



Nah! Production LEDs output between about 10 and 60 lumens per Watt (for example, see http://www.superbrightleds.com/edison.html for a list of bulbs that range from 10 .. 30 lumens/W). That puts them between halogen (at about 10 lumens/Watt) and compact fluorescents (at around 60 lumens/Watt). In other words, they'll also produce just as much heat per Watt as a halogen (on the low end) or CFL bulb (on the high end).


-Rob-


----------



## 408mustang

Reuben, how are your fiberoptic light boxes wired? i bought the same ones you used and am attempting to wire them using lutron's spacer system sps-600 dimmer, not so much to dim them but to turn them on and off by remote,that works but the light box hums when turned off and the spinner wheel doesn't work when turned on. so did you modify the internal switch or what did you do? BTW awesome theater


----------



## miltimj

He is going to use two power sources/transformers (as he mentioned 15 posts ago ).


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nah! Production LEDs output between about 10 and 60 lumens per Watt (for example, see http://www.superbrightleds.com/edison.html for a list of bulbs that range from 10 .. 30 lumens/W). That puts them between halogen (at about 10 lumens/Watt) and compact fluorescents (at around 60 lumens/Watt). In other words, they'll also produce just as much heat per Watt as a halogen (on the low end) or CFL bulb (on the high end).
> 
> 
> -Rob-



Actually, some of the newest LED modules are getting as high as 131 lumens per watt (and they keep pushing that up seemingly every few months). But yes, they do generate some serious heat per watt...though not as much as a big Halogen. No way to get bright light without either a really big LED array, or a small, but hot running bulb. LED's will re-write the book on fixture design since all fixtures today are pretty much designed around the ubiquitous ultra inefficient Edison bulb that only has one real advantage...it is small and bright. No reason that form factor has to continue with LED arrays allowing for all sorts of cool designs.


Oh...and CF is a BAD idea in a theater...way too much radiated noise from most of them. I actually have a bunch of CF PAR30's in one room in my home and had a pair of big Klipsch's stored in there...the speakers would hiss when the lights were turned on... and they weren't even hooked up to an amp! Once LED's get to the point where they are reasonably affordable and have the light output, it will be bye bye Edison and CF bulbs IMHO.


----------



## Craigo87

CF? What is this an abreviation for?


What about Xenon? I just picked up a six pack of under counter xenon lights at Lowe's for $29. That included a dimmer. The lights are rated at 20W each. Apparently the halogens they replaced were getting too hot and a potential fire hazard. I was amazed at the price.


Craig


----------



## miltimj

CF = Compact Flourescent


----------



## The Midnight




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A couple people here on AVS took my plans to contracters to build an identical room like mine. They were quoted between $85k - $120k for just labor and building materials (equipment and chairs not included). I told them that was allot of money.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Ruben if I wanted to build a theater like yours using your plans and could do most of the construction like you did how much would I have to spend?



BTW aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing theater man!!!!!


----------



## hibbz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Justanupdate,
> 
> We started framing out the new screenwall to accomodate the new curved SmX screen. My previous screenwall was straight with a 10 foot wide opening. The new screenwall is curved with a 12 foot wide opening.
> 
> 
> Here is a quick picture of the framing almost done. I also have a live video feed of the theater being worked on but I an not figure out how to stream it over the internet. I do have an IP camera and access it via the web to see the video feed but it requires my personal password to see it.If anyone know show to stream webvideo let me know.



damn dude it must be nice to have money up the ying yang


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Midnight* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben if I wanted to build a theater like yours using your plans and could do most of the construction like you did how much would I have to spend?
> 
> 
> 
> BTW aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing theater man!!!!!



I posted a detailed breakdown of costs to build this room a few pages back in this thread.


Thanks!!!!!


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hibbz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> damn dude it must be nice to have money up the ying yang



To be honest, this room came out costing allot less than most rooms done by pro contracters on this board because I did it myself and some friends helped me out occasionally. I never went to school for this profession, I just watched allot of DIY TV and read AVS for a while.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## hibbz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To be honest, this room came out costing allot less than most rooms done by pro contracters on this board because I did it myself and some friends helped me out occasionally. I never went to school for this profession, I just watched allot of DIY TV and read AVS for a while.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben




what ever your doing keep on doing it that room looks frikin awesome.. You and your crew are very talented. You guys should be doing this full time.. You have the best looking ht I have ever seen. The stars on the ceiling look amazing


Any chance you can fly me out so I can watch a movie on that thing


----------



## McCall

Then there is the fact that Ruben came up with SMX during this whole adventure, has sold a ton of it, and now will have a screen company and Make more money up the ying yang. Now that is the way to do things.


----------



## oldredtop




> Quote:
> I posted a detailed breakdown of costs to build this room a few pages back in this thread.
> 
> 
> Thanks!!!!!
> 
> 
> Ruben



Can someone please post a link or post number for this. I did a search *and* manually went back, read several pages, and couldn't find it.


Thanks in advance...


----------



## DKaps

Post #1499, Red.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To be honest, this room came out costing allot less than most rooms done by pro contracters on this board because I did it myself and some friends helped me out occasionally. I never went to school for this profession, I just watched allot of DIY TV and read AVS for a while.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



However you did it I just have to commend you on it. Now that you are approaching half a million posts though , I think it's time to start your own forum.







An index etc would come in handy.










Art


----------



## McCall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However you did it I just have to commend you on it. Now that you are approaching half a million posts though , I think it's time to start your own forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An index etc would come in handy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Surely you know that Ruben has his own forum the SMX forum.


----------



## AccessHA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However you did it I just have to commend you on it. Now that you are approaching half a million posts though , I think it's time to start your own forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An index etc would come in handy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Art, I believe SandmanX did just that... http://www.smxscreen.com/ 


You will need to register but he has the theater build chronicled there as well.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Surely you know that Ruben has his own forum the SMX forum.



No I didn't ,and don't cal me surely.













> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AccessHA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Art, I believe SandmanX did just that... http://www.smxscreen.com/
> 
> 
> You will need to register but he has the theater build chronicled there as well.



Thanks !


Art


----------



## oldredtop

Thanks for the post #, Dan. For those of you that are math challenged it's on page 50. (just kidding, guy and gals)










Great information there...thanks for sharing Ruben!


----------



## SmX

A little update,


Today I got my Tabletkiosk eo UMPC i7209 to use with my automated home and theater. I have the Samsumg Q1 as well, but I like the fact that the eo has a charging dock station and a built in camera.


Here are some flix showing the Q1 and the eo...


----------



## AccessHA

I've been looking at both of these for some time now. Interested in hearing about the pros/cons of each unit. How does the battery usage compare?


----------



## Mark P

Cons of the EO.

Loud, wireless fairly weak as compared to normal laptop, hard to work on and very slow when used to working on 4ghz processors, cannot come out of hibernate by touching screen (havent played very hard to see if possible), Seriosly need usb mouse and keyboard if plan on getting things done fast, used it by remote desktop but this seems to slow it down even slower so all programing needs to be done elsewhere and loaded. Bright labels that arent stickers, hopefully Ruben attempts removal before I do with sucess so I can copy. More to come but I only played with it for a couple hours last week.


Pros of EO.

Nice looking, small but large enough, camera, nice graphics, responsive, stable beyond comphrehension, nice dock ( bad powercord, bulky), blends well with a theater setting, doesnt have a toyish PSP look, voice activated and works suprisingly well. handles rich graphics fairly well.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cons of the EO.
> 
> Loud, wireless fairly weak as compared to normal laptop, hard to work on and very slow when used to working on 4ghz processors, cannot come out of hibernate by touching screen (havent played very hard to see if possible), Seriosly need usb mouse and keyboard if plan on getting things done fast, used it by remote desktop but this seems to slow it down even slower so all programing needs to be done elsewhere and loaded. Bright labels that arent stickers, hopefully Ruben attempts removal before I do with sucess so I can copy. More to come but I only played with it for a couple hours last week.
> 
> 
> Pros of EO.
> 
> Nice looking, small but large enough, camera, nice graphics, responsive, stable beyond comphrehension, nice dock ( bad powercord, bulky), blends well with a theater setting, doesnt have a toyish PSP look, voice activated and works suprisingly well. handles rich graphics fairly well.



What do you mean by "voice activated"?


Joe


----------



## Mark P

Voice recognition, the more you keep at it the better it gets. You read little paragraphs that soon turn to novels and it learn your speech patterns. Anywhere you can type, you speak. Im guessing it can be setup for Play, stop, pause digging deeper.


----------



## AnthonyP

voice activated is not a good idea for this job. I have yet to see an implementation that was less trouble then using a TS.


draw backs:


either too sensitive or not enough: will it understand you, wife, kids, babysitter. While avoiding the actors


inadvertent commands: saying stop it to someone and then the movie stops


exactitude: you miss something (or worst FF) and you want to rewind you say rewind (or whatever it is) then when you see what you want and give the play command so it over rewound (or FF too much)


command knowledge: was it freeze or pause.


----------



## Mark P

If it does work, My stuff is going to be set up to Hibernate in like 1 minute so I can hit the top power when and if I want control, the voice recognition is the best ever on these EOs


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cons of the EO.
> 
> Loud, wireless fairly weak as compared to normal laptop, hard to work on and very slow when used to working on 4ghz processors, cannot come out of hibernate by touching screen (havent played very hard to see if possible),
> 
> Pros of EO.
> 
> Nice looking, small but large enough, camera, nice graphics, responsive, stable beyond comphrehension, nice dock ( bad powercord, bulky), blends well with a theater setting, doesnt have a toyish PSP look, voice activated and works suprisingly well. handles rich graphics fairly well.



The EO isn't loud at all for me, in fact I can put my ear up to it and still can't hear it running. The Samsung Q1 is louder.


Wireless works just as good as everything else in my house.


Speed, well it's a tablet so it doesn't have Dual, Dual Core AMDs in it.

It does the job, it turns lights on and off and works the same as the Samsung Q1. They are both better than an Air Panel as far as video redrawing speed. I am still waiting on a good 10.4" tablet with a dock to come out.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P

Since yours isnt loud maybe the fan is broke and thats why the screen is moving around. I can clearly hear the thing 4' away. It would be in hibernate during a movie without a doubt.


All my laptops are dead silent, this thing trys to move alot of air out of those tiny holes. Might also be because I have it turned up bright and have it on its dock on a hardwood desk in a alcove and is amplified.


I would hope the wireless is good with 4 access points, I can go almost a block away with all other wireless components, this thing chokes 50' away and the routers in the attic. It will work great in the theater 30' from the router through 1 wall. It doesnt work in the den with a coffered ceiling. I might have to get some more routers and put them in every room, so far 1 has done the trick


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am still waiting on a good 10.4" tablet with a dock to come out.
> 
> 
> Ruben



March according to Joe at tabletKiosk, I may go for the 12" but a 10" er does sound appealing


----------



## Mark P

You're right, it can be quiet, I just turned it on and you cant hear anything the first minute or so. Open Mainlobby or go on the internet and tell me that thing doesnt purr. Then it wont stop until standby. Either way this is your baby to play with, get all my Main lobby stuff done and upload it by tomorrow please? I gave the thing a complement and now its back to sitting here howling in my ear, I guess howling isnt a fair description but it has a unique sound I am aware of at all times while on.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're right, it can be quiet, I just turned it on and you cant hear anything the first minute or so. Open Mainlobby or go on the internet and tell me that thing doesnt purr. Then it wont stop until standby. Either way this is your baby to play with, get all my Main lobby stuff done and upload it by tomorrow please? I gave the thing a complement and now its back to sitting here howling in my ear, I guess howling isnt a fair description but it has a unique sound I am aware of at all times while on.



That's cause the hard drive needs cooling. Use the power options and try setting the hard drive to turn off after 1 minute. The fan will probably turn off soon after that.


Now, don't forget. If you run a program or anything that uses the hard drive again the fan will probably turn on again.


What we really need is something like the EO that has no hard drive and uses flash memory. No fan neeed then.


Joe


----------



## Craigo87

Ruben,


Your theater is amazingly cool! Definite cool factor going on there. You've got style.


I was wondering if you still had that Outlaw Audio 990 in your audio chain and if so what are your impressions of it? I'm planning on getting one and will connect it with a digital coax SPDIF cable to my HTPC. Is that the way you have it set up?


thanks,

Craigo


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's cause the hard drive needs cooling. Use the power options and try setting the hard drive to turn off after 1 minute. The fan will probably turn off soon after that.
> 
> 
> Now, don't forget. If you run a program or anything that uses the hard drive again the fan will probably turn on again.
> 
> 
> What we really need is something like the EO that has no hard drive and uses flash memory. No fan neeed then.
> 
> 
> Joe



Certainly some serious setup can probably perfect it. I think I need the HD to deal with graphics Im dealing with plus it makes a nice guest room touch pad for when friends and family visit, they have their own personal PC in their room.


By the way, ROTFLMAO at your Email about post #93 in Automation, Have faith Joe, Im only 5693 days from being a automation power user


----------



## miltimj

What's a practical use of a camera on the tablet? Seems like it'd be about as good of quality as a cell phone's camera, but less useful since you're probably at home with it, where your camera is.


Joe, I think it'd be possible to use a flash card with an IDE->CF/SM adapter inside the tablet if you crack it open. Then there'd be no HDD, but obviously disk space would be at a premium.


----------



## Mark P

Video conferencing from anywhere you want using AIM or WM? Im not into that much but it is sort of neat, Ruben has showed this to me and it is cool for instructional purposes where the phone just doesnt cut it.


----------



## miltimj

Ah, as a webcam.. That makes sense. I was just thinking still pictures. Very cool.


----------



## SmX

Well after 500 hours on my Optoma H-79, the bulb has darken to the point I don't want to watch movies in my theater anymore.


It got that dark. So it looks like it's time for a new projector.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well after 500 hours on my Optoma H-79, the bulb has darken to the point I don't want to watch movies in my theater anymore.
> 
> 
> It got that dark. So it looks like it's time for a new projector.
> 
> 
> Ruben



LOL, that sure is a lame excuse for a new HD81!!


----------



## Mark P

Do they use the same bulb?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do they use the same bulb?



no


----------



## accts4mjs

That's the plan for my Optoma as well. It's about 300 hours and I've had to recalibrate it once because it got darker. Not too bad now (it helps with the black wall and columns to bring the contrast up so hopefully it'll last a bit longer than if I hadn't finished the room).


For now I'm thinking the Panny 900 but if the Optoma lasts a bit longer 1080 might come down in price and I might spring for that










What are you thinking for your next projector?


Mike


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are you thinking for your next projector?
> 
> 
> Mike



Well I was in Home Depot today and saw this really cool Epson Projector with a built in DVD player and built in speakers for $999.99 I was thinking about that.










Not sure yet, the Optoma HD-81 sounded great but the offset may be an issue. The new BenQ and Sharp are suppose to be top notch as well so I am sitting around waiting to see feedback. I may have to grab another bulb for the meantime.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey guys,


I just came across a crazy unheard of deal on 3 D-Box Odyssee XL Motion platforms. These are the top of the line big ones that can move 2600lb platforms up to 1.5" at 2gs of force. Problem is, I need to buy all 3 systems to get this incredible price on them and I only need one system for myself.


If anyone here is interested in jumping on this, I posted all the details about them here in the AVS Marketplace * CLICK HERE *


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Sandman, Provantage.com usually has a competive price on H79 bulbs, My first lasted 600 hours, my second is going strong at 400 but I've got a spare in my drawer just in case.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, Provantage.com usually has a competive price on H79 bulbs, My first lasted 600 hours, my second is going strong at 400 but I've got a spare in my drawer just in case.




Thanks for the tip. I use Provantage all the time and didn't even think they sold bulbs for this PJ there.


I was told to call Optoma and they should give me a free bulb since it's only been 500 hours on it. They are rated at 3000 hours so I was hoping for at least 1000










Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Thought you knew of this problem:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=79+bulb 


Over 60 % of those surveyed had dimming in less than 1000 hours on our toy.


The good news is that even with a 500 hour life on the bulb we are only looking at 70 cents an hour for this insane hobby.


Also from personal experience when you put a new bulb in, you will fall in love with your projector all over again. I wouldn't wait. When it starts going dim replace it right away and keep the used ones for a real emergency.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well after 500 hours on my Optoma H-79, the bulb has darken to the point I don't want to watch movies in my theater anymore.
> 
> 
> It got that dark. So it looks like it's time for a new projector.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben -- when your car runs out of gas, do you just sell it and get another?
























Seriously -- I'd buy the bulb and wait a year for the "higher end" 1080 projs to drop in price a bit.


----------



## accts4mjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I was in Home Depot today and saw this really cool Epson Projector with a built in DVD player and built in speakers for $999.99 I was thinking about that.



LOL! You made my stomach sink! I was about to hurl on my screen and my mind was screaming, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"


Mike


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman, Provantage.com usually has a competive price on H79 bulbs, My first lasted 600 hours, my second is going strong at 400 but I've got a spare in my drawer just in case.




I ordered my bulb last night at 7pm EST from Provantage and the Bulb was at my door the next day. Those guys are good! I paid for overnight shipping but they had a note on their site that orders after 3pm EST may not ship until the following day, but they still got it out at 7pm.


Ruben


----------



## BasementBob

SandmanX


> Quote:
> Well I was in Home Depot today and saw this really cool Epson Projector with a built in DVD player and built in speakers for $999.99 I was thinking about that.



Might make a good bathroom system. In case you can't convince the superbowl friends to pause the DVR. With enough beer, when you gotta go, you gotta go. You could store medicine and shaving equipment behind the piano hinged acoustically transparent screen.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BasementBob* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandmanX
> 
> Might make a good bathroom system. In case you can't convince the superbowl friends to pause the DVR. With enough beer, when you gotta go, you gotta go. You could store medicine and shaving equipment behind the piano hinged acoustically transparent screen.



LOL, Bob, you are not that far off.










With the AV distribution I put in the house I can watch what is being played in the theater on any TV in the house. Including the bathroom!!


Joe


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Hey this is the Sandman's house. he'll have two flat panels in the Bathroom. One for standers and one for sitters. Also the porcelain throne will have a buttkicker.


----------



## SmX

The hottest thing this Christmas, hotter than PS3










40 Yards baby


----------



## Mark P

The problem with the PS3 is Gears of War, CoD3, HD DVD drive, HD Movies and TV downloadable on the 22nd and the PS3 has...............Ridge Racer and a $600 price tag. I guess it has Blue Ray as well, Im hearing not to good of things about BlueRay so far.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The hottest thing this Christmas, hotter than PS3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40 Yards baby



So are you selling any?


Joe


----------



## VorlonFog

Yeah, what Joe asked!!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VorlonFog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, what Joe asked!!



I'm using this batch to finish up some things. If I have any left over I will let you guys know.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem with the PS3 is Gears of War, CoD3, HD DVD drive, HD Movies and TV downloadable on the 22nd and the PS3 has...............Ridge Racer and a $600 price tag. I guess it has Blue Ray as well, Im hearing not to good of things about BlueRay so far.



Yeah I heard they were big pieces of crap. However, a ToysRus PS3 presale receipt just sold for $9,100.00 yesterday on ebay. You know I will be standing in line for one










Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 40 Yards baby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> I'm using this batch to finish up some things. If I have any left over I will let you guys know.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Uhhh....doing the enitre bedroom in black velvet....?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Uhhh....doing the enitre bedroom in black velvet....?



Yeah, you now Ruben. Nothing in moderation.










Joe


----------



## VorlonFog

I heard he commissioned a few new Elvis portraits.


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *VorlonFog* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I heard he commissioned a few new Elvis portraits.



I wonder if he's going with..


The Young Elvis Or the Older "Peanut Butter Nanner Sandwich" Elvis







.  


Sorry Ruben -- I couldn't resist


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if he's going with..
> 
> 
> The Young Elvis Or the Older "Peanut Butter Nanner Sandwich" Elvis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Sorry Ruben -- I couldn't resist



Def the "Peanut Butter Nanner Sandwich" Elvis










Ruben


----------



## SmX

Hey Guys,


I get allot of PM's and emails from people starting home theaters asking me where to buy their equipment from. I'm gonna post this here because It's hard to keep up with answering the same PM's and emails over and over again.


I just want to say, I have not found anyone online or locally with better pricing or better service than AVS. I think allot of people that come to AVS don't realize AVS sells Home Theater products and even yet, for rediculously low prices.


When I first came here and even after being here for a while, I didn't really know that AVS sold allot of different HT products. So I ended up paying higher prices everywhere else during the build of my HT and I thought I was getting good deals too. Well towards the end, I got on the phone with Alan Gouger from here for some other reason and found out his prices were about 20 - 30% lower than what I was paying, boy was I pissed. So I manage to get my Lumagen Scaler off him and my First D-Box as well.


So for anyone reading this thread that is starting a home theater, save yourself a ton of money and time and contact [email protected] or [email protected] These guys are really good guys that know just about everything in the Home Theater business and carry all the equipment you need to boot!


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> I get allot of PM's and emails from people starting home theaters asking me where to buy their equipment from. I'm gonna post this here because It's hard to keep up with answering the same PM's and emails over and over again.
> 
> 
> I just want to say, I have not found anyone online or locally with better pricing or better service than AVS. I think allot of people that come to AVS don't realize AVS sells Home Theater products and even yet, for rediculously low prices.
> 
> 
> When I first came here and even after being here for a while, I didn't really know that AVS sold allot of different HT products. So I ended up paying higher prices everywhere else during the build of my HT and I thought I was getting good deals too. Well towards the end, I got on the phone with Alan Gouger from here for some other reason and found out his prices were about 20 - 30% lower than what I was paying, boy was I pissed. So I manage to get my Lumagen Scaler off him and my First D-Box as well.
> 
> 
> So for anyone reading this thread that is starting a home theater, save yourself a ton of money and time and contact [email protected] or [email protected] These guys are really good guys that know just about everything in the Home Theater business and carry all the equipment you need to boot!
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Do they carry good AT screens too?










Joe


----------



## FusionRx

People who liked Ruben's Samsung Q1 can get a good deal on it over at woot.com.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> People who liked Ruben's Samsung Q1 can get a good deal on it over at woot.com.




Those are refurbished, just so you know.


Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Yep, I have bought refurbed equipment at times and honestly wouldn't have been able to tell that it was unless someone told me. Not all of us are made of moneybags










Edit: Yay... 100th page achieved!


----------



## padishar

I've been ooking around on the web for more info on these and found the Q1 on Woot for $752 shipped:

http://www.woot.com/Blog/BlogEntry.a...ogEntryId=1666 





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A little update,
> 
> 
> Today I got my Tabletkiosk eo UMPC i7209 to use with my automated home and theater. I have the Samsumg Q1 as well, but I like the fact that the eo has a charging dock station and a built in camera.
> 
> 
> Here are some flix showing the Q1 and the eo...


----------



## barhoram

Ruben,


Between the tabletkiosk and the Q1, which is working better for a remote control? pro's / con's of each? I'm looking for a unit with a directional pad (hard buttos) that works well for navigating menus, etc. Between the two, which would have better directional buttons (up, down, left, right, enter)? Thanks.


----------



## Mark P

The two major downers for the Q1 are no dock and the thing is a fingerprint magnet, the EO has a camera. If someone could clarify if the Asus http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=4070 has a dock it sort of kicks the snot out of both because it has GPS and a couple other goodies, plus I like the look


----------



## FusionRx

I need a GPS to find my way to the seats...














Only you have need of this Mark....










Just kidding... Its amazing what they can cram into these computers nowadays....


----------



## Mark P

I was thinking GPS for the car since the wife always gets lost as in........." just take the touchscreen and it will lead you right to the place to pick me up 300 concrete blocks ( by hand)"


----------



## Mark P

These would be nice in a 10", hopefully Tablet Kiosks will be this nice http://www.savantav.com/panels.asp


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


I just installed the blue LED rope lights in my light tray. The ones I bought are 9 feet long, so I am using 6 of them. The funny thing is that when I plug them in, even though I have the channel on the Grafik eye totally down, they light up a little bit. Not enough to give off any reflection on the ceiling but if you look at them directly they are glowing.


Do yours do that too?


BTW, LED is definately the way to go. I bought a set of both types of blue lights and the standard ones you can hardly tell they are blue. I will be throwing some pics up on my build thread shortly and you can see the difference.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I just installed the blue LED rope lights in my light tray. The ones I bought are 9 feet long, so I am using 6 of them. The funny thing is that when I plug them in, even though I have the channel on the Grafik eye totally down, they light up a little bit. Not enough to give off any reflection on the ceiling but if you look at them directly they are glowing.
> 
> 
> Do yours do that too?
> 
> 
> BTW, LED is definately the way to go. I bought a set of both types of blue lights and the standard ones you can hardly tell they are blue. I will be throwing some pics up on my build thread shortly and you can see the difference.
> 
> 
> Joe



Hi Joe,


My rope shuts completely off. But listen to this, whenever I dim them off with the grafik eye, after they completely dim off they flash back on lowly for a quick half second then shut off completely.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barhoram* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Between the tabletkiosk and the Q1, which is working better for a remote control? pro's / con's of each? I'm looking for a unit with a directional pad (hard buttos) that works well for navigating menus, etc. Between the two, which would have better directional buttons (up, down, left, right, enter)? Thanks.



I sold my Q-1 and kept the tabletkiosk for the theater. It is working great so far. I am using Cinemar Main Lobby for the automation and it is working very well. Main Lobby is a very powerful program that allows you to do just about anything with automation and security. Plus Main Lobby comes with pre-made templates (called scenes) to work with and tons of graphics.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Joe,
> 
> 
> My rope shuts completely off. But listen to this, whenever I dim them off with the grafik eye, after they completely dim off they flash back on lowly for a quick half second then shut off completely.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I get some flickers too. Kind of weird. How about if you have the other light channels up bright and turn the LED one off. Does it still go completely dark?


Joe


----------



## SmX

For everyone that has those fiber optic lightboxes for the star ceilings, here is the mods we did to eliminate the noisy fan and hot halogen bulb and successfully use LED MR-16 type bulbs without burning out.


As some of you read before, I was blowing out MR-16 LED bulbs in 5 - 10 minutes with my fiber optic light boxes. We were able to modify the bulb to no longer blow out.


First here is the MR-16 LED Bulb. It has 31 LEDS in it...




















We used a knife to remove the LED Panel from the MR-16 type bulb











Here is what the inside of this bulb looks like...











The reason why my bulbs were burning out was because this little panel that is attached to the back of the LED panel was getting too hot and the solder from the wires melted and disconnected which made me think they burnt out.











So what we did was remove the little regulator panel from the LED panel as seen below...











And then we soldered the wires directly to the LED panel eliminating that little regulator panel.











Here is a before shot of the Fiber Optic Liught box on the inside. As you can see, there is a Transformer for the Halogen on the left side along with a fan. The motor and wheel on top are straight 120v, no transformer is used for the spinning wheel motor.











We began our light box mod by removing the Noisy Fan and existing AC transformer.











Here is a close up of the transformer. We snipped off the input and output wires to attach to our new DC transformer...


----------



## SmX

We then grabbed a couple 12v DC transformers I had in my junk wire box upstairs and cracked them open to use the DC transformers. We soldered the wires from the older AC transformer onto the new DC transformer and this is what we got...











We then popped the new DC transformer inside the light Box hooked up the modified LED bulb and hooked the power up.











SUCCESS!!!











The light boxes are now silent and run very cool (no fan needed anymore) and the stars look much more natural now with the LED bulbs. They now have a real nice bluish white look to them, whereas the halogens had a yellow look. The light box uses one source of power for the spinning wheel and lightbulb. These can be seperated to 2 different plugs if you wanted to have the spinning wheel and light bulb on 2 different dimmers.


The speed and brightness of the new modded box is perfect to my standards during movie watching and in all theater lights on mode.


The new modded light boxes have been running perfectly for 2 weeks straight now.


Ruben


----------



## mastiff34

Wow, nice, very impressive..


----------



## LewisCobb

Hi Ruben - Can you give me an idea of the rpm speed that your twinkle wheel turns? I am thinking of doing a DIY light box and want to source a small gear motor. A close up of that twinkle wheel might assist me as well, but I think I can scale everything from the pic that you have posted.


Cheers,

Lewis


----------



## jmorris644

Hey Ruben,


Perfect timing!!










I had just taken mine apart to see if I could figure out why yours was burning out. Well, I don't happen to have any transformers with a DC regulator laying around so don't you think that I could take the small regulator out of the bulb and wire it between the current transformer that is in the case and the bulb socket? Do you think if it is sitting in the open air it will still get hot enough to melt the solder? man, that is pretty hot!!!


Joe


----------



## qthai99

Hey Ruben,


About the MR-16 LED bulb, I see they have a 12V and also a 120V bulb at http://www.expresslighting.com/mrlowlinvolt.html Could I choose the 120V bulb and bypass the 12V DC transformer? Sidetracking, I also counted the LEDs in your bulb and it is more than 31.


Thai


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qthai99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben,
> 
> 
> About the MR-16 LED bulb, I see they have a 12V and also a 120V bulb at http://www.expresslighting.com/mrlowlinvolt.html Could I choose the 120V bulb and bypass the 12V DC transformer? Sidetracking, I also counted the LEDs in your bulb and it is more than 31.
> 
> 
> Thai



That link points to halogen bulbs. That is what Ruben is trying to eliminate because of the heat.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *qthai99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben,
> 
> I also counted the LEDs in your bulb and it is more than 31.
> 
> 
> Thai



Your right, it looks ike they have 48 LEDs in them. I must of ordered something else and forgot.


Ruben


----------



## qthai99

Woops,


Thanks Joe, was just browsing around and forgot the LED part. So where can I find the 12V DC transformer?


Thai


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So where do I start?
> 
> 
> Well today I got the Danley up behind the screenwall in position and wired up to the Amp/processor/DVD player. What can I say? I'm still not getting what I am expecting to get. Am I expecting too much? The Danley rattles everything in my room that isn't tied down, but doesn't produce any sound pressure.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,

I haven't gotten to the conclusion of this dilemma. I've been too busy clicking on the multitude of links- I feel like I've read The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire five times! I must admit, this is a better read.


Pink Floyd's Sorrow is great for low bass frequencies, if your pants don't shake violently during the intro, Kong won't roar.

Whenever I want to check for room rattles, I plug in my SWR bass amp and chase out the crickets.


You do great work.


Sincerely,

Alan


P.S. Perhaps Danley should rename the DTS-20 to "The Slaughterhouse Sub."


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Are your LED ropes actually dimming? I can go form totally off to the first dimmed position on the GE and the LEDs go on full strength.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Are your LED ropes actually dimming? I can go form totally off to the first dimmed position on the GE and the LEDs go on full strength.
> 
> 
> Joe



Yes I can dim them at any level. I can really fine tune the dimness as well. I do it all through the Lutron Grafik Eye.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes I can dim them at any level. I can really fine tune the dimness as well. I do it all through the Lutron Grafik Eye.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Dang. Maybe I bought the wrong kind.


Are you using line voltage to the LEDs? Or low voltage?


Where did you buy them from?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dang. Maybe I bought the wrong kind.
> 
> 
> Are you using line voltage to the LEDs? Or low voltage?
> 
> 
> Where did you buy them from?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



Line Voltage.

I plug them straight into my outlet in my light tray that is controlled by the Grafik Eye.


I got them off ebay from eBay seller "ledadvantage" they were "LED 59' BLUE 3-WIRE X-BRIGHT 120V ROPE LIGHT_3-WIRE_BIN" for $124.95


Ruben


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> "Originally Posted by SandmanX
> 
> So where do I start?
> 
> 
> Well today I got the Danley up behind the screenwall in position and wired up to the Amp/processor/DVD player. What can I say? I'm still not getting what I am expecting to get. Am I expecting too much? The Danley rattles everything in my room that isn't tied down, but doesn't produce any sound pressure.
> 
> 
> Ruben"
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I haven't gotten to the conclusion of this dilemma. I've been too busy clicking on the multitude of links- I feel like I've read The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire five times! I must admit, this is a better read.



Oh, I think he found the problem. Dilemma ends with a Chandelier being knocked off the ceiling upstairs soon as the preamp levels were sorted out


----------



## SVonhof

Soundood, you bringing up things from the past (including that the problem is no longer a problem) for a reason? A little behind on this post?







Lots of reading there, that's for sure.


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, I think he found the problem. Dilemma ends with a Chandelier being knocked off the ceiling upstairs soon as the preamp levels were sorted out



And to think I was only a page away.


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Soundood, you bringing up things from the past (including that the problem is no longer a problem) for a reason? A little behind on this post?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of reading there, that's for sure.



Nah...just helping Winkelmann catch up on this never ending epic thread and making sure there is no misunderstanding of the capabilities of the DTS-20 engine of destruction.


----------



## SmX

I'm posting this to be the 3,000th reply










Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm Posting This to Be the 3,000th Reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



We'll just call you Mr. 3000


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm posting this to be the 3,000th reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Wow, you finally got one of the milestone posts. CONGRATS!!


You were watching weren't you!!










Let's see,


I had post #1000, you got #3000. Who got #2000?


Joe


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm posting this to be the 3,000th reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



See, even my belated question helped to pump up your thread count.


I enjoyed every post. More pics.


Alan


----------



## lxjoe

Ruben,


This may be a repeated question, When you made curved screen where there any focus issue on the sides ? because you have mentioned the curve is around 9 inch from the straight line.


lx


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lxjoe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> This may be a repeated question, When you made curved screen where there any focus issue on the sides ? because you have mentioned the curve is around 9 inch from the straight line.
> 
> 
> lx



If there was, I wouldn't be having a curved screen in my theater










Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We'll just call you Mr. 3000




Damn, why didn't I think of that? Nice Job


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, you finally got one of the milestone posts. CONGRATS!!
> 
> 
> You were watching weren't you!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see,
> 
> 
> I had post #1000, you got #3000. Who got #2000?
> 
> 
> Joe




Tim, screen name "miltimj" got #2000, back on page 67 (if you are using the forum default of # of posts per page).


----------



## SmX

Man, am I pissed. I spent the last 2 days rewiring my system since I was now satisfied with all the components in my rack. So I organized and tied all my wires down really nice and clean. I triple checked every plug to make sure nothing went undone.


Well tonight I finished wiring and went to watch a movie and the projector is not syncing up wit my Htpc video nor my hd sat. box now. As the pc starts, I see the dos screen and then the windows start up screen but once it gets to the windows desktop the projector says "no signal". The sat box shows the on screen resolution when I switch to it, but I am also getting a blank screen with a "no signal" display. This is all happening through DVI, component seems to work fine. I spoke to Alan earlier and he told me that alot of people have been having Handshake issues with DVI.


Does anyone have any suggestions? My pj is an Optoma H-79, I tried hooking both devices up directly to the pj through dvi and the same issue occurs. I usually use a Lumgen HDQ for scaling and video switching.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Hmmm, so you pulled the Lumgen out and now there is a syncing issue? Have you tried putting it back in again just to try to narrow down the issue?


Ruben,


BTW. I finally got my SmX screen installed!!!! Take a look at my construction thread!! (Page 3 is where the screen installation starts.)


Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, am I pissed. I spent the last 2 days rewiring my system since I was now satisfied with all the components in my rack. So I organized and tied all my wires down really nice and clean. I triple checked every plug to make sure nothing went undone.
> 
> 
> Well tonight I finished wiring and went to watch a movie and the projector is not syncing up wit my Htpc video nor my hd sat. box now. As the pc starts, I see the dos screen and then the windows start up screen but once it gets to the windows desktop the projector says "no signal". The sat box shows the on screen resolution when I switch to it, but I am also getting a blank screen with a "no signal" display. This is all happening through DVI, component seems to work fine. I spoke to Alan earlier and he told me that alot of people have been having Handshake issues with DVI.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? My pj is an Optoma H-79, I tried hooking both devices up directly to the pj through dvi and the same issue occurs. I usually use a Lumgen HDQ for scaling and video switching.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Try leaving the PJ on and rebooting the HTPC as well as all your equiptment and see what happens.


----------



## Logic_BomB

Damit is all I have to say. I've been reading the thread for a few weeks during downtime at work and I've reached the end! I didn't want it to end... I suppose that's what makes the thread so great eh?


Origonally I was just looking for the finished design and then I figured it was somewhere earlier in the thread and started reading from page 1 and it got damn interesting damn quickly. I still look at your pictures and go "this...is....a....garage?!?!"


I'm only 23 years old but I've already budgeted 20k for a house in Ottawa, Ontario for the spring with my girlfriend and one of the major buying factors will be a basement with room enough for a home theater. This has given me excellent insparation! I'm by NO MEANS a handyman (no exp really) but I'm very much a read-learn-do type person which is how you are from the sounds of it. That gives me a lot of hope










My problem is learning everything at this point - it took me months of casual, spare-time research to buy my Paradigm 60 stereo system for the apartment. I'm going to just die trying to lock in components for a theater but I hope I have as much fun doing it as you have!


EXCELLENT THREAD! Thank you for the detail and explanations along the way!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Logic_BomB* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damit is all I have to say. I've been reading the thread for a few weeks during downtime at work and I've reached the end! I didn't want it to end... I suppose that's what makes the thread so great eh?
> 
> 
> Origonally I was just looking for the finished design and then I figured it was somewhere earlier in the thread and started reading from page 1 and it got damn interesting damn quickly. I still look at your pictures and go "this...is....a....garage?!?!"
> 
> 
> I'm only 23 years old but I've already budgeted 20k for a house in Ottawa, Ontario for the spring with my girlfriend and one of the major buying factors will be a basement with room enough for a home theater. This has given me excellent insparation! I'm by NO MEANS a handyman (no exp really) but I'm very much a read-learn-do type person which is how you are from the sounds of it. That gives me a lot of hope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My problem is learning everything at this point - it took me months of casual, spare-time research to buy my Paradigm 60 stereo system for the apartment. I'm going to just die trying to lock in components for a theater but I hope I have as much fun doing it as you have!
> 
> 
> EXCELLENT THREAD! Thank you for the detail and explanations along the way!



I spent 18 months reviewing and learning here at AVSForum before I even attempted starting my theater.










Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I spent 18 months reviewing and learning here at AVSForum before I even attempted starting my theater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe




Hey Joe, Check your PM real quick.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim, screen name "miltimj" got #2000, back on page 67 (if you are using the forum default of # of posts per page).



Hmm, I hadn't even noticed..










Ruben, what's your HTPC resolution?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, am I pissed. I spent the last 2 days rewiring my system since I was now satisfied with all the components in my rack. So I organized and tied all my wires down really nice and clean. I triple checked every plug to make sure nothing went undone.
> 
> 
> Well tonight I finished wiring and went to watch a movie and the projector is not syncing up wit my Htpc video nor my hd sat. box now. As the pc starts, I see the dos screen and then the windows start up screen but once it gets to the windows desktop the projector says "no signal". The sat box shows the on screen resolution when I switch to it, but I am also getting a blank screen with a "no signal" display. This is all happening through DVI, component seems to work fine. I spoke to Alan earlier and he told me that alot of people have been having Handshake issues with DVI.
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions? My pj is an Optoma H-79, I tried hooking both devices up directly to the pj through dvi and the same issue occurs. I usually use a Lumgen HDQ for scaling and video switching.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Just an update on my problem. I found out this afternoon that my Sat box and HTPC switched to some funky resolution that the projector couldn't understand. This must of happened when I unplugged everything. It was really wierd that it happened to both the HTPC and the Sat Box at the same time. Well its all fixed now. I set my HTPC back to 1280 x 720 and my Sat box was on 480i so I switched it to 720p and problems solved.


Ruben


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just an update on my problem. I found out this afternoon that my Sat box and HTPC switched to some funky resolution that the projector couldn't understand. This must of happened when I unplugged everything. It was really wierd that it happened to both the HTPC and the Sat Box at the same time. Well its all fixed now. I set my HTPC back to 1280 x 720 and my Sat box was on 480i so I switched it to 720p and problems solved.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Thats why I said leave PJ on and reboot, remember, youre running Media Center Edition XP with a projector


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...remember, youre running Media Center Edition XP with a projector



Ouch, I'll hold down Gates so you can pie him!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thats why I said leave PJ on and reboot



I originally tried that but that didn't work. Thanks for the tip though.

I see you turned into a Gears of War junkie now. 8 hour sessions?


Ruben


----------



## VorlonFog

*Ruben:* Glad to hear you got it sorted out so quickly. That's the frustrating kind of thing that's always a pain to deal with.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ouch, I'll hold down Gates so I can pie him!



It's not just Gates/Windoze. My Linux MythTV system with an nVidia card plays similar games whenever I turn off the projector but not the HTPC. Fortunately, my projector remote (InFocus ScreenPlay 5000) has a button/function to re-scan the inputs. That's one button press that's definitely going to be in my "Projector On" macro.


----------



## SmX

I want to comment on the new microsoft movie downloads. I paid $5.50 to spend 11 hours downloading a HD movie that ended up being a 4.51 gig file that I could only watch for up to 12 hours. Since when is a 1.45 hour HD movie 4.5 gigs? Standard definition dvd main movies are about the same size. They are obviously compressing the crap out of these HD movies so what is the point?


If you can't keep it on your drive, you mind as well rent it from Blockbuster so you can watch an uncompressed HD-DVD. I think Mark P told me it took him 18 hours to download an HD movie from microsoft that he played by mistake and lost it.


New movie rental releases are something most people want to rent and watch the day it comes out not tie up your bandwidth for 18 hours to download it so you can watch it the next day. They are going to need to make these movies streamable or on demand.


Ruben


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are going to need to make these movies streamable or on demand.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Look how long it took Hollywood to okay VHS rentals. They kept crying piracy. All you have to do is wander the streets of China to pick a blockbuster before it hits the theaters- they'll even include an FBI warning.


----------



## Driver

Time for NetFlix and setting your prefs for BluRay or HD-DVD. Done.


----------



## bembol

Lost track of this thread...can someone tell me the page where the (finished?) pics are.


Thanks!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bembol* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lost track of this thread...can someone tell me the page where the (finished?) pics are.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



* HERE *


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I originally tried that but that didn't work. Thanks for the tip though.
> 
> I see you turned into a Gears of War junkie now. 8 hour sessions?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Remember I have a son and he has friends, my longest bout was 5 hours straight when it first came out, my daughters boyfriend seems to show interesr in it as well. Ive been sort of busy with other things I should be posting pictures of


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Remember I have a son and he has friends, my longest bout was 5 hours straight when it first came out, my daughters boyfriend seems to show interesr in it as well. Ive been sort of busy with other things I should be posting pictures of



Yes, you should. You have been accomplishing a LOT and your thread has seen no activity for about a month now!!










Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, you should. You have been accomplishing a LOT and your thread has seen no activity for about a month now!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



LOL, I would but its buried so deep, I could never find it in the bottomless pits of the archives.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL, I would but its buried so deep, I could never find it in the bottomless pits of the archives.



Here you go. Always glad to help a friend out!!









http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&goto=newpost 


Joe


----------



## lormahoykyd2007

Where did you get the light boxes and cable from. I am going to start this process in my media room, and any help will be appreciated.


Chris


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lormahoykyd2007* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where did you get the light boxes and cable from. I am going to start this process in my media room, and any help will be appreciated.
> 
> 
> Chris



I got everything from http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/ 


Ruben


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Very nice, cheesy website but looks like they know thier stuff.


----------



## jmorris644

Man, I gotta tell ya. This starred ceiling is sure a LOT of work. Geez. I sure hope it is worth it in the end!!










Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, I gotta tell ya. This starred ceiling is sure a LOT of work. Geez. I sure hope it is worth it in the end!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Joe, quit ya complainin and get back to work!


It WILL be worth it. Don't worry about it!


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe, quit ya complainin and get back to work!
> 
> 
> It WILL be worth it. Don't worry about it!



LOL, Yeah, I know. My biggest problem now is that I have been watching movies!!


We got the SmX screen mounted and the projector installed before Xmas and all we want to do now is watch it!!


1080p on the SmX screen is absolutely breathtaking. We can't get enough!!


Well, probably this weekend I will tackle more of the ceiling.










Joe


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOL, Yeah, I know. My biggest problem now is that I have been watching movies!!
> 
> 
> Joe



I ALWAYS tell people to remember that as soon as the theater is functional, most progress will come to either a screeching halt or at least a major slow-down.


In order to get stuff done, you have to wait to get the electronics all hooked up. I am sure many others will agree with me on this.


----------



## jmorris644

I know, I know. I was warned many times over and still did it.










Oh well, off to watch another movie










Joe


----------



## BritInVA

Yeah, real weird how at the beginning your down there on your own building the HT......getting grief for amount of time you spend down there.....my HT was nick named the 'Girl Friend'......believe me at times would have been easier to have had an affair










Then once the equipment is hooked up you can't spend a weekend or an evening alone with the 'Girl Friend'. If its not Movie night the kids want to play PS2 in there. And what makes things worse I can't make too much noise while they are playing.










Can't complain too much though......we now spend much more time together as a family.










Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yeah same here I'm on my third theater, first one the wife didn't get, the second one she understood, now the third one she's driving me nuts get it done. But I'm doing all the work myself, I don't even try to ask for help. In the end she will watch more movies with her family, while I'm traveling for work....







still can't wait.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the end she will watch more movies with her family, while I'm traveling for work....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> still can't wait.



Oh, don't you HATE it when they call you at work and tell you how they showed it off to their friends who were in town and how impressed they were and you're thinking, "Damn it! That's the payoff I'm missing out on!" ^_^


----------



## SmX

I tell you one thing, I thought that after I was done building my theater I would end up using it only once a month if that. Well I was completely wrong, I use it almost every night, I am really loving it!!!


I love having a dedicated theater much much more than having a garage!










I am really enjoying Main Lobby as well!


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I am really enjoying Main Lobby as well!
> 
> 
> Ruben



Say What!


I thought you had given up on that!


Tell me more.


Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tell you one thing, I thought that after I was done building my theater I would end up using it only once a month if that. Well I was completely wrong, I use it almost every night, I am really loving it!!!
> 
> 
> I love having a dedicated theater much much more than having a garage!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am really enjoying Main Lobby as well!
> 
> 
> Ruben



I just wish Hollywood could make the experience worthwhile, I have watched every movie released in the last couple months and I have to say yuck. I was going to go see many at the theater this summer and Im glad I passed, sure would have been nice to have these HT setups before CGI. The nineties, earlt 2000s were pretty decent.


----------



## ebr

Ruben - in case you haven't been to the cinemar forums, I did figure out how to get the set aspect ratio commands to work in ML...


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tell you one thing, I thought that after I was done building my theater I would end up using it only once a month if that. Well I was completely wrong, I use it almost every night, I am really loving it!!!
> 
> 
> I love having a dedicated theater much much more than having a garage!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Well, congrats then! That's great that after having it up and running that you don't seem to have any regrets about the loss of the garage!


----------



## HawkeyeJosh

Impressive project!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben - in case you haven't been to the cinemar forums, I did figure out how to get the set aspect ratio commands to work in ML...




oh, this is great news. Can you shed some light on this for me?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Say What!
> 
> 
> I thought you had given up on that!
> 
> 
> Tell me more.
> 
> 
> Joe



Everything is working great. I've set up a dedicated server to run Main Lobby Server. Main Lobby pretty much does everything I need it to do (it is a very powerful program). I got TheaterTek on different PCs in my house all comunicating with Main Lobby Server. They all access my 16 terrabyte raid system to play different movies in different rooms. Automation is working great, I still need to get around to getting HomeSeer installed for timer control and remote automation from the cell phone.


My only complaint is that my 7" touchscreen tablet remote is too small for the dvd lobby screen. A 10" touchscreen is the way to go. I'm waiting on those 10" Tabletkiosks to hit the streets.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just wish Hollywood could make the experience worthwhile, I have watched every movie released in the last couple months and I have to say yuck. I was going to go see many at the theater this summer and Im glad I passed, sure would have been nice to have these HT setups before CGI. The nineties, earlt 2000s were pretty decent.



Go get Jackass 2, it is very worthy. Haven't laughed so hard in years.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HawkeyeJosh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Impressive project!



Thanks!


Ruben


----------



## BocaPimp

with out being laughed at, how come u went with the curved screen over the flat ?


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oh, this is great news. Can you shed some light on this for me?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Ruben



Sorry - didn't mean to be cryptic there. I thought maybe you had already figured it out.


The SetAspectRatio command documented in the TT plugin works but you have to give it a relative offset as its argument, not the name of your aspect ratio. For instance, if you have 4 ARs defined in TT as follows:


16x9

4x3

16x9 Pan and Scan

2.35:1


That show in that order in the AR menu, then their relative offsets are 0, 1, 2 and 3 respectively. So, to set the AR in TT to 2.35:1 (your custom AR that does the vertical stretch) you need to send the command:


AV.[yourdevicename]|SetAspectRatio~3


Unfortunately, this means you can't just use the AR field in DVDLobby like you wanted, but you could use another field that you put the offsets in. I know with your library that would be a daunting task, but maybe, since its an Access DB there would be a way to do a quick program that would fill them in automatically. For now, I've just put a button on my DVDLobby interface for each AR (16x9 and 2.35:1) that the wife can hit to adjust it if something is off.


TheaterTek says that they have the functions to query the AR names within their API and I have requested that Cinemar modify the plugin to allow us to send the command with the name instead of offset.


BTW - I've found the TT auto aspect control to work very well. I don't have many movies in my DB yet (about 50) but it seems to recognize and switch properly between the menus and the features such that I get the proper AR for each.


----------



## HDLife

Have been browsing and looking for Sandman's updated picture. You are probably no where close to finish yet. If you have time, can you post up some new pictures for us eager beavers.


TIA


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have been browsing and looking for Sandman's updated picture. You are probably no where close to finish yet. If you have time, can you post up some new pictures for us eager beavers.
> 
> 
> TIA



Huh?







I posted pictures about 20 pages back in this thread.


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Ruben - the following line inserted into a macro in your play command would do what you want with AR, I think:


MLConditional|IsEqual##{{media_os_{{clientname}}_formataspec tratio}}##2.35:1##AV.[aliasname]|SetAspectRatio~4


Replace [aliasname] with the alias for your TT device and the "4" with whatever offset relates to your 2.35 aspect in TT. You might need multiples of this command to check for things like 2.37:1 or 2.40:1.


----------



## HDLife

Yes I have seen those back in early Nov/06. I thought that you may have done more. I am just excited to see more of your handy work, that's all.


----------



## Denon2807

Simply wow! Great home theater Sandman. I hope to someday have one as nice as you. When I do it will once and for all make "going to the movies" an obsolete affair for me. I'm sure you said it somewhere in this thread but what did this whole thing end up costing you equipment and building materials and speakers and all? What was the grand total? I'm very interested to know so that I can set aside a budget myself.


----------



## Logic_BomB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Denon2807* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What was the grand total? I'm very interested to know so that I can set aside a budget myself.



Although it's great to figure out what the total for Sandman's theater was (back in the thread somewhere....), it should have next to zero bearing on what your budget will be. You should look at your current day-to-day budget and figure out the max you want to spend on a theater.


Also, Sandman did a good majority of the work himself as far as I can tell - contracting out some of this work could add up pretty easily I would imagine. Also, his equipment is more than likely going to be different in price, features and needs than the equipment another person will want/need.


----------



## SVonhof

Good point Logic_Bomb, I agree with your points.


Ruben did post costs somewhere in this massive thread and I am not about to try and find it, but it really has no bearing on anyone else's theater build. The biggest reason is because he did more work on his own than most people would ever consider. Not only that, he chose to do more than most would on every aspect of the theater as far as features and little touches. If somebody would get a contractor and tell him to make a theater like Ruben's the contractor would be seeing rolling dollar signs in his eyes as it is a LOT of work that they can charge a premium for.


For anyone to really get an idea of what it would cost for their own theater build, the general things that have to be considered are:

room size ($??)

existing room, new room inside of existing area, new addition ($??)

room style ($??)

acoustic treatments ($0-$15,000)

equipment ($1000-500,000)

furniture ($40-$40,000)

soundproofing? ($0-$10,000)

DIY or contractor ($time-$contractor time)


Each of these requirements have huge differences to each person as well as price tags and is totally dependent on if you install your own equipment, or actually build the theater on your own. I am sure I didn't even get everything there....


----------



## Palmtree

I haven't checked on this thread for a while--but I know it is impressive. I have spent about an hour now looking for final pictures and can't seem to find them. Can anyone point me in the right direction. Maybe the right month to look in or something. I mean--this thread is huge.

Thanks


----------



## Logic_BomB

Register here: http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/index.php 


This is SandmanX's forum. There is a hidden section that appears when you register that has NOTHING but construction pictures (including the finished ones).


Something I *DO* wish I had were solid raw-material costs. I'm still looking for a house so I don't know what the room I have to work with will look like but I get very nervous with the thought that I might not have the $$ to do what I want for a very long time.


I'm hardly rich (23 year old sales guy...) but I hope that it isn't going to be a 10-year endovor to save up enough cash to turn a basement into a simple theater room with isolation in mind (greenglued drywall, linacoustics, bass traps - simple stuff).


The whole subject of "how much will it cost" is such a slippery sloap that I think my only option will be to look at the room I get to work with and make a lot of calls.


----------



## Palmtree

Thanks Logic-bomb. I don't know if I am just blind or what but I still can't find pictures of the completed theater in that forum.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

SandManX you meantioned that you were able to source half rounds across the US, but they cost so much to ship it was not worth it. Could you post those links I have not been able to source anything locally, and so far have not found anything on the internet.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Palmtree* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Logic-bomb. I don't know if I am just blind or what but I still can't find pictures of the completed theater in that forum.



I posted the link 2 pages back in this thread when someone else asked. Here it is again
* CLICK HERE *


Ruben


----------



## jikkjack

Ruben - you might just want to put a link to final pictures in your signature. I have a feeling you are going to get that question a lot due to your thread popularity.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Hey Ruben, great job, makes me want to turf all of the stuff out of my garage and get crackin'!


I was wondering for my SMX install, does this picture you posted show the angle that the screen material is rotated off square?


Al


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, great job, makes me want to turf all of the stuff out of my garage and get crackin'!
> 
> 
> I was wondering for my SMX install, does this picture you posted show the angle that the screen material is rotated off square?
> 
> 
> Al



I think the general consensus when Ruben had his SmX screen thread ended up being 15 degrees. But you should really test it out in your own environment with your projector.


If you want to get a good flavor for what the 15 degree angle looks like on a full screen take a look at my build thread. I layed out the complete screen and took a picture of it prior to cutting the material.


Joe


----------



## Logic_BomB

I believe rotating is only needed if moire is a problem with your projector. Not sure if the problem it corrects is the moire but I know rotating is not needed in all situations.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think the general consensus when Ruben had his SmX screen thread ended up being 15 degrees. But you should really test it out in your own environment with your projector.
> 
> 
> If you want to get a good flavor for what the 15 degree angle looks like on a full screen take a look at my build thread. I layed out the complete screen and took a picture of it prior to cutting the material.
> 
> 
> Joe



Thanks for the link Joe, I am looking at now, still haven't got the the screen part though!










I too am looking at the HD81 for my theater, the room is 16x25 feet with an 8 foot ceiling so I should be ok. I just wanted to be sure about the SMX screen material and it's orientation. It's one thing to drape it off a roll but another to try and skell the fabric to see IF it affects the image...


And from Logic_BomB, I know that it may not be required, but since my setup will be very close to Joe's any information is appreciated. I just saw the picture of the speakers behind the screen in Ruben's theater and was curious.


Al


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's one thing to drape it off a roll but another to try and skell the fabric to see IF it affects the image...
> 
> 
> Al



Hey Al,


It is easier to tilt the projector!!!










Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Al,
> 
> 
> It is easier to tilt the projector!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Hey Joe,


Good news! Flash drive hard drives are around the corner. SanDisk Releases 32GB Flash Drive.


Samsung is releasing the Q1 called the Q1-SSD with the 32 gigabyte Flash Drive. This will eliminate the need for fans and heat and dramatically improve battery life (as you already know).

SanDisk has launched a 32GB solid-state drive using flash memory chips, intended as a replacement for conventional hard disk drives. 


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Here is something else I found interesting, Seagate is working on a 300 terabyte 3.5" hard drive. It is slated to be out by 2010.


Ruben


----------



## kezug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a little update. I mounted lights behind my SmX AT screen to highlight the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers behind the screen before the movie starts. So basically, as the theater lights dim, the speaker lights behind the SmX screen raise for a few seconds and then dim once the movie starts. It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Rueben,


Absolutely amazing!


I have been watching your build for a while and couldnt wait for the final pics. This is great. When I then heard of how you wanted to light up those speakers behind your screen, I couldnt wait for that either. But then when I saw this picture of those speakers lit....I couldnt help but hear the Song from 2001: A Space Odyssey. (song is called Also Sprach Zarathustra)


You need to add to the timing of your lights dimming to the parts of this famous tune and when the climax hits (in the song), you light those bad boys up behind your screen.


----------



## BocaPimp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Joe,
> 
> 
> Good news! Flash drive hard drives are around the corner. SanDisk Releases 32GB Flash Drive.
> 
> 
> Samsung is releasing the Q1 called the Q1-SSD with the 32 gigabyte Flash Drive. This will eliminate the need for fans and heat and dramatically improve battery life (as you already know).
> 
> SanDisk has launched a 32GB solid-state drive using flash memory chips, intended as a replacement for conventional hard disk drives.
> 
> 
> Ruben



There also releasing a Dock for the new units, thats what the samsung rep told me the other day. There is a 3rd party dock out right now overseas, a friend of mine is getting more info and possibly shipping me one very soon..


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Joe,
> 
> 
> Good news! Flash drive hard drives are around the corner. SanDisk Releases 32GB Flash Drive.
> 
> 
> Samsung is releasing the Q1 called the Q1-SSD with the 32 gigabyte Flash Drive. This will eliminate the need for fans and heat and dramatically improve battery life (as you already know).
> 
> SanDisk has launched a 32GB solid-state drive using flash memory chips, intended as a replacement for conventional hard disk drives.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Thanks. I had not seen that. And it is something that will be here in 2007.


I had been giving this stuff some thought. For the purposes of a remote control we really only need someting like 8Gb of space. All we really need the space for is MainLobby and the grafic files and the operating system. So 8GB would be more than enough.


You can take any laptop drive and replace it with a flash and and adapter. I have seen them but I have not had the time to do thorough research on them yet.


Woot! today has an interesting device. If the price was a little more reasonable I would probably buy one to play with it.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is something else I found interesting, Seagate is working on a 300 terabyte 3.5" hard drive. It is slated to be out by 2010.
> 
> 
> Ruben



That is absolutely amazing. I jsut saw for the first time over the holiday season that Maxtor offers a 1 Tb drive.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BocaPimp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There also releasing a Dock for the new units, thats what the samsung rep told me the other day. There is a 3rd party dock out right now overseas, a friend of mine is getting more info and possibly shipping me one very soon..



What do you mean? A dock for the flash drive? I am confused.










Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kezug* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Rueben,
> 
> 
> Absolutely amazing!
> 
> 
> I have been watching your build for a while and couldnt wait for the final pics. This is great. When I then heard of how you wanted to light up those speakers behind your screen, I couldnt wait for that either. But then when I saw this picture of those speakers lit....I couldnt help but hear the Song from 2001: A Space Odyssey. (song is called Also Sprach Zarathustra)
> 
> 
> You need to add to the timing of your lights dimming to the parts of this famous tune and when the climax hits (in the song), you light those bad boys up behind your screen.




Thanks! I temporarly disabled the lighting behind the screen after I rebuilt the curved screen wall. I have to pick up new fixtures and get the lighting back there again.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

Thanks Al!


Best bet is to temporarly set it up and see if rotation is necessary.

Everyones throw distance, screen size and projector may prove differently.


Ruben



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, great job, makes me want to turf all of the stuff out of my garage and get crackin'!
> 
> 
> I was wondering for my SMX install, does this picture you posted show the angle that the screen material is rotated off square?
> 
> 
> Al


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SandManX you meantioned that you were able to source half rounds across the US, but they cost so much to ship it was not worth it. Could you post those links I have not been able to source anything locally, and so far have not found anything on the internet.



There is a spot in Washington, DC and Long Island NY that carries them. I will try to find them online again.


Ruben


----------



## gpetilli

Originally Posted by SandmanX

Just a little update. I mounted lights behind my SmX AT screen to highlight the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers behind the screen before the movie starts. So basically, as the theater lights dim, the speaker lights behind the SmX screen raise for a few seconds and then dim once the movie starts. It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me



Sandman - Absolutely fricken cool !!!


I am just starting my theater and definately plan on using your SMX screen (now with backlighting). I love your theater an hope I can do half as well. Your pic raises some questions in my mind.


1) I am hoping to use the Klipsch Refrence series which have the copper cones. Is that going to be an issue with reflections behind the screen?

2) I was planning to use 1" 703 FG behind the screen with cut outs for the speakers to make the front wall acoustically dead. It does not look like you did this. Any issues with speakers "sofit mounted" in FG?

3) I have seen threads talking about curving the screen. Did you do this, is it nessasary, how do you do this?

4) Do I need all three speakers behind the SMX or can I put the mains off to the sides (behind GoM)?


Thanks again for sharing your great theater.


Gene


----------



## Don_Kellogg

So your looking to do a baffle wall like this?

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/3/308259.html 


I now have enough space behind my screen wall so I will probably do that myself. I'm not sure what Klipsch series your refering to but I have the RF 7 and RC 7 fronts with the RS62 rears they sound really nice.


----------



## miltimj

Gene,


3) Ruben describes the screen curvature in this thread as well as (more easily found) at smxscreen.com.


4) You can put your mains wherever you like, based on your preferences. IIRC, most sound engineers assume the L/R speakers are off the screen, and mix the channels accordingly. However, if they get separated too far, imaging/soundstage may suffer depending on the angle from listening position to the speakers and the speaker characteristics themselves.


----------



## gpetilli

sorry for the curve wall question, missed the thread in the excitement over Ruben's backlight pic.


I do see now that Ruben curved his screen both vertically and horizontal. This sounds difficult, so I am leaning towards only horizontal since that appears more common.


Yes, the RF7 and RC7 are part of the Klipsch reference series. I plan on using the newer versions of these fantastic speakers. My question on reflections is not accoustic but optical. The copper cones are kinda shinny and I am worried about the light leakage through the screen lighting them up. Any thoughts?


gene


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ahh that is an easy one then I do not see the cones through the screen at all.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpetilli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I do see now that Ruben curved his screen both vertically and horizontal. This sounds difficult, so I am leaning towards only horizontal since that appears more common.
> 
> gene



Rubem was considering doing a Torus screen, but it was too much work to get it to work correctly, so instead ended up with just a curve in the one plane (I would call it a vertical curve, but that's just me!).


FYI, the Torus screen was talked about quite a bit, but making the screen also acoustically transparent wouldn't work as torus screens have a fan or vacuum to pull the screen tight to get the proper curve and any screen with all those holes to allow the sound to pass through would have been too much work to overcome the holes with any kind of fan or vacuum.


----------



## miltimj

The horizontal axis is curved, Scott..










In addition to your valid points, the torus would also be one big air filter and perhaps not look the same after quite a bit of usage.


----------



## Wolf352




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by SandmanX
> 
> Just a little update. I mounted lights behind my SmX AT screen to highlight the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers behind the screen before the movie starts. So basically, as the theater lights dim, the speaker lights behind the SmX screen raise for a few seconds and then dim once the movie starts. It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me
> 
> 
> Ruben



Great!










I once visited a IMAX Theatre in Europa (think it was Vienna).

They introduced the Soundsystem by highliting each Spekaer with a Spotlight while it was playing a short tune.


CU

Wolf


----------



## Mark P

The curve is because it looks cool, has a benefit of helping with the Isco IIs pin cushion. The Torus was discussed by others I think but Im pretty sure Ruben always planned on Audio Transparent Screen about the second he discovered the Dalite moired a year ago. Once he found products close to Vutecs soundscreen, he knew what direction he was headed. The curve is purely coolness factor, Id be suprised to hear any different, I was excited as he started finding better and better materials because a curved screen became do-able almost instantly even though my curve is going to be ever so slight as compared to 9"-12" across 12' widths.


Curved screens just plain look great when nothings being projected. Another added bonus is having speakers equal distance from screen and closer to proper position without EQing, following HAAs advice that is.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is absolutely amazing. I jsut saw for the first time over the holiday season that Maxtor offers a 1 Tb drive.
> 
> 
> Joe



Hitachi will soon have these available:




> Quote:
> "Hitachi Global Storage Technologies on Jan. 5 unveiled what it says is the industry's first 1TB hard drive.
> 
> 
> The Deskstar 7K1000 offers users a high storage capacity that allows them to store their games, home movies, photos and music while also providing them with increased drive protection via a ramp load design that decreases the risk of shock damage, company officials said.
> 
> 
> In the 51st year, Hitachi is leading a new era for hard drivesnot only providing large amounts of affordable storage, but also customizing and optimizing hard drives to deliver products that are smarter, more durable and more useful to the consumer," Shinjiro Iwata, chief marketing officer of Hitachi Global Storage Technologies, said in a statement.
> 
> 
> To go along with the Deskstar 7K1000, Hitachi will also launch a CinemaStar version 1TB hard drive, which will provide users with a way to store more data on their digital video recorders, company officials said. The CinemaStar 7K1000 will also be able to retrieve up to 250 hours of high-definition programming, according to the company.
> 
> 
> The Deskstar 7K1000 will be available in the first quarter of 2007 at 750GB and 1TB capacities, with the 1TB drive priced at $399. The CinemaStar 1TB will be available in the second quarter of 2007; pricing information has not yet been released.


----------



## SmX

If anyone here does professional website design, please PM me.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## timbreb

SandmanX.


Do you still have the contact info for the person you got the metal grill material from? I looked through the thread and couldn't find it. Tried a search on ebay, found one guy selling chunks of it but he won't respond to my emails.


thanks

timbre


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gpetilli* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by SandmanX
> 
> Just a little update. I mounted lights behind my SmX AT screen to highlight the Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers behind the screen before the movie starts. So basically, as the theater lights dim, the speaker lights behind the SmX screen raise for a few seconds and then dim once the movie starts. It's pretty fricken cool if you ask me
> 
> 
> 
> Sandman - Absolutely fricken cool !!!
> 
> 
> I am just starting my theater and definately plan on using your SMX screen (now with backlighting). I love your theater an hope I can do half as well. Your pic raises some questions in my mind.
> 
> 
> 1) I am hoping to use the Klipsch Refrence series which have the copper cones. Is that going to be an issue with reflections behind the screen?
> 
> 2) I was planning to use 1" 703 FG behind the screen with cut outs for the speakers to make the front wall acoustically dead. It does not look like you did this. Any issues with speakers "sofit mounted" in FG?
> 
> 3) I have seen threads talking about curving the screen. Did you do this, is it nessasary, how do you do this?
> 
> 4) Do I need all three speakers behind the SMX or can I put the mains off to the sides (behind GoM)?
> 
> 
> Thanks again for sharing your great theater.
> 
> 
> Gene



The Klipsch Ref series speakers will work behind an SMX screen...but you'll need to do a blackout cloth (speaker grille cloth) or leave the factory grilles on. I recently did a theater for a local client who has a Dazian Screen (yes...an SMX screen update is in his future) and we did a trio of RB-81's behind the screen in a small theater room (which ended up sounding really good). Without the grilles, the cones were obvious so we ended up using the factory grilles and lining the entire rear wall with Linacoustic. The THX Ultra 2 sats have flat black cones and are pretty non reflective so they work well behind an SMX screen without grilles as long as everything behind is black.


I 'm not sure I'd do a baffle wall with Reference speakers. The THX Ultra 2's I sold Rubin (SandmanX) are acoustically designed for this type of mounting and will work well. It extends their frequency response downwards (now you just KNOW Rubin is going to be running out to Home Depot tomorrow for some MDF







).

Ref series speakers, on the otherhand, may end up getting pretty thumpy if you baffle mount them. They are designed for free air mounting. You can give it a shot to see what the results will be. Either that or call me and get a system like Rubin has


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

How does a baffle wall work differently to having in-wall speakers behind the screen? How is it constructed?


TIA


Gary


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Take a piece of plywood build supports so you can put a slight curve on it. Cut out openings about 1/2 larger than your speakers. Cover the front of the baffle wall with lin acoustic. Place speakers flush with the opening face.


Baffle walls get rid of cabinet effects.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Klipsch Ref series speakers will work behind an SMX screen...but you'll need to do a blackout cloth (speaker grille cloth) or leave the factory grilles on. I recently did a theater for a local client who has a Dazian Screen (yes...an SMX screen update is in his future) and we did a trio of RB-81's behind the screen in a small theater room (which ended up sounding really good). Without the grilles, the cones were obvious so we ended up using the factory grilles and lining the entire rear wall with Linacoustic. The THX Ultra 2 sats have flat black cones and are pretty non reflective so they work well behind an SMX screen without grilles as long as everything behind is black.
> 
> 
> I 'm not sure I'd do a baffle wall with Reference speakers. The THX Ultra 2's I sold Rubin (SandmanX) are acoustically designed for this type of mounting and will work well. It extends their frequency response downwards (now you just KNOW Rubin is going to be running out to Home Depot tomorrow for some MDF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Ref series speakers, on the otherhand, may end up getting pretty thumpy if you baffle mount them. They are designed for free air mounting. You can give it a shot to see what the results will be. Either that or call me and get a system like Rubin has




Wow that is strange I have Klipsch RF-7's and RC-7 I can't see them throught the screen at all.


----------



## Gary Lightfoot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Take a piece of plywood build supports so you can put a slight curve on it. Cut out openings about 1/2 larger than your speakers. Cover the front of the baffle wall with lin acoustic. Place speakers flush with the opening face.
> 
> 
> Baffle walls get rid of cabinet effects.



Thanks Don,


much appreciated. I assume the curve is to match the screen, and a flat screen would have a flat baffle wall.


Gary.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I have a flat screen I was directed to create a slightly curved wall behind it. It think helps with imaging. I do not believe the shape of the screen has anything to do with the shape of the baffle.


----------



## Cam Man




> Quote:
> I have a flat screen I was directed to create a slightly curved wall behind it.



Concave or convex? One large wall or mini-walls for each LCR?


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

I assume a single concave baffle wall - that way the LR speakers are being toed in towards the center viewing position in a domestic set up.


THX show one here for a commercial theater:

http://www.thx.com/cinema/builtTHX/baffle.html 


Gary


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow that is strange I have Klipsch RF-7's and RC-7 I can't see them throught the screen at all.



Probably depends on the setup. We had the speakers up a bit higher and we could see the copper cones thru the screen without the grilles. It is easy enough to pull the screen and pop the grilles back on if you see them.


Also, you will note the THX baffle wall picture shows part of the reason to use it is to damp reflections off the screen. A baffle wall with Linacoustic will help to absorb those reflections...but this isn't as much of a problem with a woven screen like an SMX, Dazian or Screen Research screen. The real reason I would do it is to extend the frequency response of the LFE speakers downward...but that may NOT be a good thing.


If you have a room that is peaky down lower and you've already had to do a lot of treatment and/or EQ to smooth the response...using a baffle wall may exacerbate the problems with more output and deeper response on your mains. You need to know the combined front channel/LFE response and your room before you add plywood. If you have a 10 DB peak at 40 hz you are already knocking down on the LFE channel and your mains are pretty rolled off by 50hz...extending them so they are flat to 40 may not be the best idea. I do a combined main/lfe response when I EQ the LFE to take their output into account. On the other hand...if you have a 10 DB dip at 40 you've been frustrated with...then grab yourself some materials!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Concave as stated the speakers point in a bit.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gary Lightfoot* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I assume a single concave baffle wall - that way the LR speakers are being toed in towards the center viewing position in a domestic set up.
> 
> 
> THX show one here for a commercial theater:
> 
> http://www.thx.com/cinema/builtTHX/baffle.html
> 
> 
> Gary



Interesting consideration, I will have to remember this when placing my speakers behind the screen...


Thanks for posting the link.


----------



## Gary Lightfoot

You're welcome Al,


My thanks to Don for bringing it and the link to the thread when he did - the Tom Holman movies are an excellent read and very interesting (well, to me anyway







).


I've not really thought about AT screens, but if my next theater has the room for one, I'll try to copy the THX layout. Anyone know what the material is that you place on the baffle wall (or is it in the thread and I've missed it)?


Gary


----------



## BocaPimp

ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW


i am prolly one of the only people on AVS that has gone to rubens theater, the room

Is amazing, the sound is awesome, the experience of the sound, the screen and the

Craftmanship of everything is TOP TOP notch, I only wish my theater can turn out like this (hopefully it will with rubens help). I am glad that I picked up the same amps and speakers and subs as ruben, because his system is banging. It sounds like you're in the movie. Even though he really only demo'd Aeon Flux for me, it still was amazing to hear the audio and the SMX screen looks awesome, cant wait for mine to come in


----------



## Winkelmann

I don't recall where I read it, but an article recommended that speakers (behind the screen) perform better if they are at least 12" behind the screen.

So, I e-mailed Michael Colter at Klipsch for their recommendation on how far back from the screen to mount the speakers. To which he replied, "I would think a couple of inches... THX speakers move some serious air. Personally, I wouldn't use them behind the screen."

I thought, _tell that to Ruben_.










As far as building a "baffle wall" for a small home theater... why???

I thought that was the idea of using linacoustic on the speaker wall. Plus, with all the air that a good speaker moves, doesn't it need all the air it can get?


Boca Pimp,

That's great to hear.



Winkelmann


P.S. I listened to the Klipsch THX Subs and was very pleased with the bass they produced. They were not only smooth, but I had to ask my friend if he had shakers in his riser; which is separated by a carpet over concrete floor.


----------



## markley11

Reuben:


Fantastic work, I'll be calling you for a screen when the time comes.


I don't think you answered how you did the curved top and sole plate framing for your screen a few pages back..... How did you bend those 2x4's into shape???


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markley11* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Reuben:
> 
> 
> Fantastic work, I'll be calling you for a screen when the time comes.
> 
> 
> I don't think you answered how you did the curved top and sole plate framing for your screen a few pages back..... How did you bend those 2x4's into shape???



Thanks! We just cut some curves out of 3/4" MDF and doubled them up to get 1.5"


Sorry I been busy building a mini anechoic chamber to do some preliminary testing of materials.


----------



## Mark P

So hows it test? And are you testing what I think your testing?


----------



## Winkelmann

Ruben,

Now you've got us drooling.










Is February still on for frames? I'm getting close to closing up the walls, then onto the screen wall.


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


This device might be our answer to the saga of finding an acceptable theater remote that will work with main Loby.

Athena 


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> This device might be our answer to the saga of finding an acceptable theater remote that will work with main Loby.
> 
> Athena
> 
> 
> Joe



Nice find, but the screen is way too small at 5". I am waiting for some 10" screens.


Hey Joe, I was looking back at the SmX shipping history and you are officially the first SmX Screen owner besides myself.










Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Joe, I was looking back at the SmX shipping history and you are officially the first SmX Screen owner besides myself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



That's really cool!!! Do I get a gold plaque at your new SmX corporate headquarters?







CUSTOMER #1!!!! WHOOHOO!!!!


Other than folks that were directcly connected with Optoma I was also the first one to get the new HD81 when it came on the market.










I gotta tell ya Ruben, I absolutely LOVE the screen. I am so grateful to you for doing that up front legwork and creating this stuff. Maybe when you get your new audio invisible screen I can be the first there too?


Joe


PS Thanks too for the stage design too


----------



## wcaughey

Hey Ruben,


I did a couple searches of this thread and couldn't figure out what distance you ultimately decided to place your rear row of seats from the back wall.


What did the distance end up being and from your experience (or likely your friends, since I know you've said you love the front row) were you happy with the rear channels in combination with the 075 chair height/headrest?


----------



## SmX

If there is anyone in south Florida that does audio calibrating / room EQing, please PM me.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


Did you install an Elk-M1? If so, what brand of wireless sensors did you use? I am having a little difficulty soring through the different possibilities.


Thanks


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Did you install an Elk-M1? If so, what brand of wireless sensors did you use? I am having a little difficulty soring through the different possibilities.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe



Give me a call. I'll PM my # to you again.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's really cool!!! Do I get a gold plaque at your new SmX corporate headquarters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CUSTOMER #1!!!! WHOOHOO!!!!



I already have your picture on the wall next to our first dollar bill










Ruben


----------



## LIZALOO

Hey Ruben, have been sitting for days reading this thread from front to back (well, I may have skipped a few pages)...cannot find details on doing your starfield ceiling. Everyone refers to your instructions as the best on AVS and yet I can't find them. Saw the finished product (AWESOME) and would love to see how you orchestrated it. Can you or someone direct me to the page?

Thanks!

Liza


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LIZALOO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben, have been sitting for days reading this thread from front to back (well, I may have skipped a few pages)...cannot find details on doing your starfield ceiling. Everyone refers to your instructions as the best on AVS and yet I can't find them. Saw the finished product (AWESOME) and would love to see how you orchestrated it. Can you or someone direct me to the page?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Liza



I have organized step by step details on the SmX forum. Just go to www.smxscreen.com and register and you will see my organized construction thread.


Ruben


----------



## LIZALOO

Went over to SmX and did several searches, came up empty handed with the search for starfield instructions...what am I missing?!


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LIZALOO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Went over to SmX and did several searches, came up empty handed with the search for starfield instructions...what am I missing?!



Make sure you are logged into his site and go here.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LIZALOO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Went over to SmX and did several searches, came up empty handed with the search for starfield instructions...what am I missing?!



Here is a direct link to the thread...
http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Make sure you are logged into his site and go here.



You beat me to the punch


----------



## swithey

Hey Ruben..


While we're speaking about the star ceiling -- I did have a question. I know you made some of the star panels out of OC703 vs. the masonite (in order to handle your 1st ceiling sound reflections). Did you build a frame and put the insulation inside that? If so, was there a small lip on the side to hold the edges of the insulation or did the black GOM have enough strength to hold the piece of insulation without a pucker?


My concern is if I do have a lip, there will be a 1/4" gap between the GOM and the insulation. I was worried this might produce a brighter light since the strand will have to travel an extra 1/4" behind the GOM before it pokes out the other side of the GOM. This may not matter but wanted to ask.


Hope that makes sense.


----------



## LIZALOO

Thanks Steve & Ruben...finally! I've been impatiently trying to find it for a few days!


If you don't mind me asking you Ruben, how much did it cost (approximately), including boards, GOM, light kit, fibers, shooting stars etc.?


I've found someone who is fairly reasonable to make/ship from FL (since Numinous out of CA who is RIDICULOUSLY expensive), was wondering how DIY chaulked up price wise?


How long would you say it took you from start to finish? We were thinking it would be a weekend job if my hubby and I did it ourselves? Realistic expectations or dreaming?


Thanks


----------



## strange_brew

Hi Ruben,


As has been said many times in this thread, your theater is absolutely stunning. I have a few very quick questions on your light trays / veneering for you if you don't mind:


1. Did you round off the bottom of your light tray with a router before wrapping your veneer? If so what kind of radius did you use?

2. Any reason why you didn't apply the veneer to the light tray first then put it up?

3. How far does your light tray "lip" stick out from the side of your soffit?

4. Do you recall the name of the glue you used to "blend" the veneer joints?


As you may have guessed I'm doing something similar. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery










EDIT: Forgot to add that my screen is an SMX. Can't wait to put that baby into action










Thanks!

Craig.


----------



## mmoeller




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben..
> 
> 
> While we're speaking about the star ceiling -- I did have a question. I know you made some of the star panels out of OC703 vs. the masonite (in order to handle your 1st ceiling sound reflections). Did you build a frame and put the insulation inside that? If so, was there a small lip on the side to hold the edges of the insulation or did the black GOM have enough strength to hold the piece of insulation without a pucker?
> 
> 
> My concern is if I do have a lip, there will be a 1/4" gap between the GOM and the insulation. I was worried this might produce a brighter light since the strand will have to travel an extra 1/4" behind the GOM before it pokes out the other side of the GOM. This may not matter but wanted to ask.
> 
> 
> Hope that makes sense.



Just paint the 1/4" of the fibre.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> As has been said many times in this thread, your theater is absolutely stunning. I have a few very quick questions on your light trays / veneering for you if you don't mind:
> 
> 
> 1. Did you round off the bottom of your light tray with a router before wrapping your veneer? If so what kind of radius did you use?
> 
> 2. Any reason why you didn't apply the veneer to the light tray first then put it up?
> 
> 3. How far does your light tray "lip" stick out from the side of your soffit?
> 
> 4. Do you recall the name of the glue you used to "blend" the veneer joints?
> 
> 
> As you may have guessed I'm doing something similar. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add that my screen is an SMX. Can't wait to put that baby into action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Craig.



Thanks! Here are the answers..


1. Did you round off the bottom of your light tray with a router before wrapping your veneer? If so what kind of radius did you use?


Yes, it was a small radius maybe 1/8" - 1/4" round cant remember.


2. Any reason why you didn't apply the veneer to the light tray first then put it up?


Seams. It is easier to line up the seams of the veneer on something in place opposed to trying to lining up seams on big heavy light trays already veneered. Plus there is no easy way to hide the screws after its veneered.


3. How far does your light tray "lip" stick out from the side of your soffit?


8 inches


4. Do you recall the name of the glue you used to "blend" the veneer joints?


IIRC, I posted a picture of it in this thread somewhere I believe. You can call Constantine wood in Pompono Beach, FL and ask them who makes the Veneer seam filling glue.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben..
> 
> 
> While we're speaking about the star ceiling -- I did have a question. I know you made some of the star panels out of OC703 vs. the masonite (in order to handle your 1st ceiling sound reflections). Did you build a frame and put the insulation inside that? If so, was there a small lip on the side to hold the edges of the insulation or did the black GOM have enough strength to hold the piece of insulation without a pucker?
> 
> 
> My concern is if I do have a lip, there will be a 1/4" gap between the GOM and the insulation. I was worried this might produce a brighter light since the strand will have to travel an extra 1/4" behind the GOM before it pokes out the other side of the GOM. This may not matter but wanted to ask.
> 
> 
> Hope that makes sense.



We framed it out and then put the 703 in place with a wood backing on the 703 as a spacer to be flush with the frame. There was a very small gap between the GoM and the 703 but not enough to cause any problems. The fibers I used were end glow only so you don't really see any light from the sides especially inside the GoM.


Ruben


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Seams. It is easier to line up the seams of the veneer on something in place opposed to trying to lining up seams on big heavy light trays already veneered. Plus there is no easy way to hide the screws after its veneered.



Thanks Ruben, that's helpful. Any tricks/tips you can share on veneering the trays? I'm doing this myself so I'm a little nervous about trying to handle an 8' long piece of veneer and getting everything line up just right. The other thing I'm trying to figure out is how to do the corners with a nice seam....


Craig


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Ruben, that's helpful. Any tricks/tips you can share on veneering the trays? I'm doing this myself so I'm a little nervous about trying to handle an 8' long piece of veneer and getting everything line up just right. The other thing I'm trying to figure out is how to do the corners with a nice seam....
> 
> 
> Craig



Did you read my Veneer thread at the SmX forums?


Ruben


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you read my Veneer thread at the SmX forums?
> 
> 
> Ruben



I did, yes. The part I was wondering about though is how you managed to get the veneer placement right when doing it alone? Did you clamp it onto the tray with paper between the contact cement first? A small piece i think would be reasonably straightforward - its just dealing with an 8' long chunk that I"m a bit concerned about. I'm reasonably confident with most DIY things but this will be my first veneer job so I'm a little paranoid about making a mistake. Most mistakes are fixable but veneer is a different story (as I'm sure you well know). And I hate the thoughts of having to tear down that light tray...


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did, yes. The part I was wondering about though is how you managed to get the veneer placement right when doing it alone? Did you clamp it onto the tray with paper between the contact cement first? A small piece i think would be reasonably straightforward - its just dealing with an 8' long chunk that I"m a bit concerned about. I'm reasonably confident with most DIY things but this will be my first veneer job so I'm a little paranoid about making a mistake. Most mistakes are fixable but veneer is a different story (as I'm sure you well know). And I hate the thoughts of having to tear down that light tray...



You might also check with ronnie_jackson . He veneered his light trays after they were installed in the room. I remember him saying it was a PITA but was very happy with the results.


----------



## jmorris644

Although I used hardwood instead of veneering I am glad that I put the trays together prior to mounting them. Take a look at my thread (in my sig) to see how we mounted them. I think you can use the same method for the veneered ones. That way you can veneer them on the floor and mount them when complete.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although I used hardwood instead of veneering I am glad that I put the trays together prior to mounting them. Take a look at my thread (in my sig) to see how we mounted them. I think you can use the same method for the veneered ones. That way you can veneer them on the floor and mount them when complete.
> 
> 
> Joe



Hey Joe,


I noticed you used a touchscreen for your rack. I am looking for one too like maybe a 12" or 15" I can mount on my wall. Any reccomendations? I see some on eBay and didn't know if they were any good.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## barhoram

I have a 15" ELO touchscreen that I use in the entry/lobby of my theater that I use. I am VERY happy with it. It's the intellitouch version, that works with a finger vs. fingernail or stylus, which I think is key. I'll see if I can post a few pics. It was very reasonable price-wise as well.


----------



## ebr

I just ordered a Lilliput 10.4" off of eBay to replace my progear (too slow running DVDLobby). I'll let you know how it turns out. I hope to receive it today or tomorrow.


----------



## zxlr8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barhoram* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 15" ELO touchscreen that I use in the entry/lobby of my theater that I use. I am VERY happy with it. It's the intellitouch version, that works with a finger vs. fingernail or stylus, which I think is key. I'll see if I can post a few pics. It was very reasonable price-wise as well.




I am using the same thing in my theater. Works well for xlobby. I also made a run for one next to my seat.


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You might also check with ronnie_jackson . He veneered his light trays after they were installed in the room. I remember him saying it was a PITA but was very happy with the results.



Thanks Steve! And thank you Ronnie! This is EXACTLY what I was after.


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Although I used hardwood instead of veneering I am glad that I put the trays together prior to mounting them. Take a look at my thread (in my sig) to see how we mounted them. I think you can use the same method for the veneered ones. That way you can veneer them on the floor and mount them when complete.
> 
> 
> Joe



Thanks Joe - but too late, they're already up


----------



## barhoram

A few touchscreen pics


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barhoram* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 15" ELO touchscreen that I use in the entry/lobby of my theater that I use. I am VERY happy with it. It's the intellitouch version, that works with a finger vs. fingernail or stylus, which I think is key. I'll see if I can post a few pics. It was very reasonable price-wise as well.



When you Said ELO 15" Touchscreen, I did a search and came up with some huge CRT monitors










Please post the model # if you could, I like those.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ifeliciano

 ELO TouchScreens


----------



## zxlr8












Pics of mine.


Barhoram, are you running Girder with mainlobby or xlobby? I am thinking about integrating girder into my setup...


----------



## SmX

THanks Guys, great pictures!


I want to get the ELO, where do I get them at a good price?


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## ifeliciano

I have bought them for my company directly from ELO in the past, but I don't know if they still do that. ....


Nope.



> Quote:
> _Call Elo at 1-800-557-1458 (choose option 2) for product assistance and to be connected with your local value-added reseller._




The last two I got from eBay were crap !!


----------



## zxlr8

I actually bought mine refurb'd from surpluscomputers.com. They are out of stock right now though. I paid $159 shipped.


----------



## barhoram

Ruben,


Do an ebay search for "elo touch". A 1525L is similar to the model I got. If you are going to wall mount it, then it will be pretty much the same (as mine has a short base that I thought looked closer to a Crestron type touchscreen...1529L). I see a New in box 18" Intellitouch for 18" for $359. You can remove the stands on just about all of the LCD's for wall mounting.


----------



## zxlr8

Barhoram, are you running Girder with mainlobby or xlobby? I am thinking about integrating girder into my setup...


----------



## barhoram

I do use Girder for all of the control, with Netremote as the front end. Girder sits on a laptop pc in the equipment room and controlls all of the components via serial (except the HD-Tivo which is IR) and lighting. Netremote talks to girder from the PC in my den, touchscreen in the lobby, and from my pocketpc (the seats). I did try Mainlobby, but I like Netremote because it comes with the ability to control Media Center PC's over TCPIP built in, and works well with a pocketpc.


----------



## zxlr8

Xlobby is working well for me in controlling via the pocketpc from anywhere in the house. I am considering adding girder to make it a lot more wife-friendly than the Harmony 880. How much did your implementaion software cost? I am seriously considering your way if you really like it and it works well. Xlobby integrates with girder just fine, but it's control and display of outside components may need more customization fthan what I have time for.


Now when you say it is controlling everything except for your HDtivo, how is that possible? Wouldn;t you just run an infrared to all?


----------



## barhoram

Don't want to take Sandman's thread too far off topic, so I'll be quick.


I believe Girder is $49.99.


As for the control of the other HT components, I'm using serial (hard wired) control instead of IR. My projector, preamp, dvd player, amp for bass shakers, and lighting system can all be controlled via a computer's rs-232 port with girder. Unfortunately the HD-Tivo does not have an rs-232 port on it for control, so IR must be used. However, the IR commands were learned into and are contrlled from girder as well.


----------



## mastiff34

What do you need to wire the touch screen up? a cat5e wire and an outlet?


----------



## irishgond

Does anyone have a link for the pics and construction of Sandman's curved DIY screen?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irishgond* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone have a link for the pics and construction of Sandman's curved DIY screen?



Go to www.smxscreen.com 


Joe


----------



## ebr

Just FYI - I got my Lilliput screen installed. Its not the absolute best quality screen I've seen but it works well as my main DVDLobby machine. Only 800x600 where the progear is 1024x768 but that doesn't make much difference for this application (big touch buttons). Its much faster than the progear and the touch screen reacts better without a stylus too. I'm happy for the price I paid (


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just FYI - I got my Lilliput screen installed. Its not the absolute best quality screen I've seen but it works well as my main DVDLobby machine. Only 800x600 where the progear is 1024x768 but that doesn't make much difference for this application (big touch buttons). Its much faster than the progear and the touch screen reacts better without a stylus too. I'm happy for the price I paid (


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just FYI - I got my Lilliput screen installed. Its not the absolute best quality screen I've seen but it works well as my main DVDLobby machine. Only 800x600 where the progear is 1024x768 but that doesn't make much difference for this application (big touch buttons). Its much faster than the progear and the touch screen reacts better without a stylus too. I'm happy for the price I paid (


----------



## ebr

Yes, DVDLobby only at this point. It is installed in my rack just for the purpose of selecting a movie (oops, those wires and things are not visible in real life - hate the flash...).











And here is a better look at my DVDLobby interface:


----------



## SmX

Nice Job ebr, I'm hoping Mario updates DVD Lobby so we can have more editing options like more movie covers displayed and default last movies added to library. I would love a set up like Kaliedescapes movie covers layout and how you select a movie and it brings up other movies you may like based on what you selected.


I got a new 15" inwall touchscreen on ebay for $195.00 made by IIYAMA. It retails for around $900.00


Ruben


----------



## ebr

I very much agree, Ruben. DVDL really needs more filtering/sorting options that work in a thumbnail view. The ability to customize how the thumbs show would be great too. It is a cool tool for the money, however.


You can see I covered up all the buttons that allow you to change out of the thumbnail view because I think that is the best way to interact with it - we just need to be able to filter and sort in that view. For the time being, all I really miss is the ability to see the overview but I didn't like the thumbs switching in and out for that so I changed the behaviour of my setup such that touching the big cover art brings up an overview scene instead of playing the movie (which I don't think is very intuitive). Here's my overview scene that comes up when you touch the big cover:











Wow, that's a great price on a touchscreen. Be sure and let us know how you like it.


----------



## SmX

Looks good ebr, I'm going to go start a new thread in cinemar with a dvd lobby wants list, hopefully you will come over and chime in.


Ruben


----------



## NeoOiler

Those look amazing. How do they work?? Media PC with dvds ripped?? I think i may have to add one to my system..hahah


Ryan


----------



## cnickersonjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NeoOiler* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those look amazing. How do they work?? Media PC with dvds ripped?? I think i may have to add one to my system..hahah
> 
> 
> Ryan



Yeah. I would like some info on how to set one of these up! Good job!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cnickersonjr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah. I would like some info on how to set one of these up! Good job!


 www.cinemaronline.com


----------



## cnickersonjr

Thanks.


----------



## jmorris644

ebr,


Awesome! Would you be willing to share your .MLS file?


Thanks


Joe


----------



## ebr

I can't take much credit for the design as I'm just putting together elements that Mario and his guys have created. They produce some top-notch graphics with which to work.


Joe - I'll share. There's really not much to it. PM me someplace to send it.


----------



## BB4X

Sandman,


I'm trying to sign up to view your SMX forums but on the registration page the Image Verification image is not showing up. Am I doing something wrong.


Thanks


----------



## jerseyjuls

I absolutely learned a lot from your work, all of your posts were excellent, thanks for taking the time and doing the write ups with all of the information. Your theater is amazing,











- julian


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BB4X* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> I'm trying to sign up to view your SMX forums but on the registration page the Image Verification image is not showing up. Am I doing something wrong.
> 
> 
> Thanks



Sorry about that, try now.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jerseyjuls* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I absolutely learned a lot from your work, all of your posts were excellent, thanks for taking the time and doing the write ups with all of the information. Your theater is amazing,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - julian



Thank you. I have to thank everyone on AVS that guided and inspired me through my build.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ebr,
> 
> 
> Awesome! Would you be willing to share your .MLS file?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe




It looks like AnyDVD now Rips HD DVD's has anyone tried this?


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ebr,
> 
> 
> Awesome! Would you be willing to share your .MLS file?
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Joe




It looks like AnyDVD now Rips HD DVD's and soon Blu-Ray has anyone tried this?


"Slysoft recently released a Beta (version 6.1.2.0) of its AnyDVD application, which will remove copy protection and regional codes (what they call on the fly remastering) for HD-DVD and AACS. In our full review of Anydvd we already touted its discretion and simplicity, and enjoyed how you can watch the DVD at the same time as it is being ripped by the program. No doubt this Beta will attract the interest of avid DVD users, however they'll have to make sure they're machines are up to the task. On the Slysoft forum there's a thread on what hardware is recommended to play back your ripped HD DVDs.


Even though the announcement was widely relayed over the Internet it hasn't spawned much controversy. Toshiba has kept quiet over the release of the AnyDVD Beta, which will rip its very own HD DVDs. It is widely expected that once AnyDVD comes out of Beta it will also be able to rip Blu Ray DVDs too. We'll see then if the news sparks more controversy in the DVD world."


Ruben


----------



## ebr

Talk about needing a lot of storage... 25-30gb per movie. Wow.


For that reason I'm not as concerned about ripping but I do wish TT would at least pretend they are going to add support for HD-DVD playback. From what I've read of PowerDVD - it is not ready for prime time.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It looks like AnyDVD now Rips HD DVD's has anyone tried this?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yup, been there. Done that. Old stuff now










Seriously, it works great!!! And the HD-DVD drive only costs $199 and you get King Kong 1080p with it.


PM me or call me if you want details.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yup, been there. Done that. Old stuff now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, it works great!!! And the HD-DVD drive only costs $199 and you get King Kong 1080p with it.
> 
> 
> PM me or call me if you want details.
> 
> 
> Joe



How big of a file does it really output? A full 20 - 30 Gigs? I have an X-Box 360 HD-DVD player already. I guess it's USB but it can't be as simple as hooking it up to your HTPC via USB and ripping, or can it?


Ruben


----------



## ebr

What do you play it back with, Joe? And, can it scale...?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How big of a file does it really output? A full 20 - 30 Gigs? I have an X-Box 360 HD-DVD player already. I guess it's USB but it can't be as simple as hooking it up to your HTPC via USB and ripping, or can it?
> 
> 
> Ruben



Oh yes it can baby!!!










King Kong took 27.5GB


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What do you play it back with, Joe? And, can it scale...?



I am using PowerDVD to play it back.


I don't understand the scaling question.


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am using PowerDVD to play it back.
> 
> 
> I don't understand the scaling question.
> 
> 
> Joe



I need the software to do a vertical stretch of the 2.35 image so my lens can then stretch it horizontally to fill my screen.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I need the software to do a vertical stretch of the 2.35 image so my lens can then stretch it horizontally to fill my screen.



I see. Sorry. I don't know if it will do that.


Joe


----------



## Ruzzty

Great DIY thread! I just spent 4 hours reading through it.


Sandman.... your HT is worth more than my entire house. =)


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruzzty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great DIY thread! I just spent 4 hours reading through it.
> 
> 
> Sandman.... your HT is worth more than my entire house. =)



If you read this whole thing in just 4 hours you must have jjust been looking at pictures










Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you read this whole thing in just 4 hours you must have jjust been looking at pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



from pages 67 to 103


----------



## Andy238

Welcome to the forum, Ruzzty! I've never met an Evelyn Wood graduate










Just kidding. We're a sarcastic bunch at times but it's in good fun


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> from pages 67 to 103



Hey Ruben,


I think someone found Mark in a dingly old attic and they must have dusted him off.


Welcome back buddy!!!


Joe


----------



## Ruzzty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you read this whole thing in just 4 hours you must have jjust been looking at pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



You guys are too smart! ok, I read the first 20 pages, THEN I skipped over a few to pictures. But its just amazing that he spent over a year building this HT. This is one hobby I could enjoy once I buy my first house. One day soon!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ruzzty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You guys are too smart! ok, I ready the first 20 pages, THEN I skipped over a few to pictures. But its just amazing that he spent over a year building this HT. This is one hobby I could enjoy once I buy my first house. One day soon!



Thanks for the kind commets. It took a while building my own theater because I worked on it whenever I had free time.


Right now we a building a theater for Boca Pimp here on AVS and it took about 3 weeks (including demolition) from start to finish for his which is very similar to mine. We should be done with his this Thursday-Friday.


Ruben


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


If I remember correctly you used the fiberboard panels for the front of your ceiling. How about covering those with the velvet? Would that be really difficult? I was thinking of doing the starred ceiling with all velvet covered fiberboard. Thoughts?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> If I remember correctly you used the fiberboard panels for the front of your ceiling. How about covering those with the velvet? Would that be really difficult? I was thinking of doing the starred ceiling with all velvet covered fiberboard. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> Joe



If you use that OC 703 on your whole ceiling it is going to deaden your whole ceiling which may not sound too good. Plus it is a huge PITA to feed the fibers through it.


Ruben


----------



## Winkelmann

Ruben,

I keep checking the SMX site for the big February announcement, any news?


Winkelmann


----------



## Winkelmann

No Reply? March it is then!


----------



## jmorris644

Sorry Ruben,


I cannot locate the info on the carpet.


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No Reply? March it is then!



Sorry for the delay in responding to this thread.

I been posting constant daily updates on the SmX forums. Please PM me if you are particularly looking for something.


Ruben


----------



## CrowmanChicago




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well Last Night I let the PC Idle all night with no Air Conditioning on in our house to see if anything Wierd would happened and the Tempature remained stable. It is running at 29 Celcius / 89 Degrees which is below what normal is. The Normal idle Tempature for an AMD chip is 45 - 50 Celcius. So I think we got ourself a winner.
> 
> 
> BigMouthInDC wanted a Breakdown of where I bought everything and What it cost so here it is...
> 
> 
> This is a List of what I ordered...
> 
> *I got the Following stuff from www.eWiz.com *
> 
> 
> Video Card
> 
> EVGA nVidia GeForce 7800GTX 256MB 2DVI/HDTV PCI-Express Video Card
> 
> Part # EV-7800GTX
> 
> Price: $467.50
> 
> 
> CPU
> 
> AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core Processor 4400+* (2.2GHz) Retail
> 
> Part # A64-44CDBX
> 
> Price: $498.52
> 
> 
> Hard Drive
> 
> Seagate ST3400832AS 400GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive
> 
> Part # HD-ST400BS
> 
> Price: $219.39
> 
> 
> Hard Drive
> 
> Seagate ST380817AS 80GB Serial ATA 7200rpm NCQ Hard Drive
> 
> Part # HD-ST80SB7
> 
> Price: $59.48
> 
> 
> Memory/Ram
> 
> 2 DDR400 1GB Kingston Original Memory
> 
> Part # DDR4001GKI
> 
> Price: $87.03 Price Each
> 
> 
> Mother Board
> 
> Abit KN8 SLI Socket 939/NF4 SLI/1394/ATX Motherboard
> 
> Part # MB-KN8-SLI
> 
> Price: $117.95
> 
> *Total For eWiz $1,536.90*
> 
> 
> The Following Stuff was ordered from www.pcalchemy.com
> 
> 
> Case
> 
> OrigenAE X15e HTPC Case w/TFT Touchscreen and IR Module, Black
> 
> PSU: Seasonic S12-500, 500W Silent PS
> 
> Card Reader: Black Internal 17-in-1 USB 2.0
> 
> Part # X15E-B
> 
> Price: $726.90
> 
> 
> TV Tuner Card
> 
> Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-500MCE
> 
> Part # 1081
> 
> Price: $139.95
> 
> 
> CPU Cooler
> 
> Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu Copper CPU Fan Intel 478, AMD 754/939/940
> 
> Part # CNPS7000B-Cu
> 
> Price: $36.95
> 
> *Total for www.PcAlchemy.com: $903.80*
> 
> *Total Cost for Building this PC: $2,440.70 plus shipping of Parts*



Sandman,


I am a computer novice, but am interested in trying to build something similar to what you have. Did you make any changes to the parts listed above when you finished your HTPC? Also, how did you create storage for this system (i.e. for burining DVD's etc. and how does that interface with the PC -- as just another drive?). Please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding these systems... Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I really want to do a HTPC over something like the Escient products because I like the idea of stripping all the BS from the DVDs such as trailers etc.


Could you tell me where in your thread I could find information relating to hard drives you used? Many thanks.


----------



## coastalb55




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrowmanChicago* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> I am a computer novice, but am interested in trying to build something similar to what you have. Did you make any changes to the parts listed above when you finished your HTPC? Also, how did you create storage for this system (i.e. for burining DVD's etc. and how does that interface with the PC -- as just another drive?). Please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding these systems... Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I really want to do a HTPC over something like the Escient products because I like the idea of stripping all the BS from the DVDs such as trailers etc.
> 
> 
> Could you tell me where in your thread I could find information relating to hard drives you used? Many thanks.



You can find all his HTPC info in this thread (you'll need to register at his site).


Being it has been quite a long time since he built his HTPC, I would imagine that he has upgrade or will be upgrading parts. The components he uses in his computer have definitely dropped in price. If you are going to do 1080P, plan to have a more powerful CPU and graphics card.


I'm in the process of building up a system, so I've done a fair amount of research lately.


Andy


----------



## CrowmanChicago




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coastalb55* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can find all his HTPC info in this thread (you'll need to register at his site).
> 
> 
> Being it has been quite a long time since he built his HTPC, I would imagine that he has upgrade or will be upgrading parts. The components he uses in his computer have definitely dropped in price. If you are going to do 1080P, plan to have a more powerful CPU and graphics card.
> 
> 
> I'm in the process of building up a system, so I've done a fair amount of research lately.
> 
> 
> Andy



Do you happen to have a list of components you used? Would it make sense for me to do a 1080p system even though I only will be using the system to watch DVDs? There are a few companies out there like Cellar Cinima etc. that are charging a fortune to build these systems and I wanted to try and save a little money. thanks a lot.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrowmanChicago* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sandman,
> 
> 
> I am a computer novice, but am interested in trying to build something similar to what you have. Did you make any changes to the parts listed above when you finished your HTPC? Also, how did you create storage for this system (i.e. for burining DVD's etc. and how does that interface with the PC -- as just another drive?). Please excuse my lack of knowledge regarding these systems... Any help you can give me would be appreciated. I really want to do a HTPC over something like the Escient products because I like the idea of stripping all the BS from the DVDs such as trailers etc.
> 
> 
> Could you tell me where in your thread I could find information relating to hard drives you used? Many thanks.



I was actually going to sell the HTPC I built. I ended up not ever using it due to using another server I had. If anyone is interested in it, send me a PM.


I use a 16 terabyte raid to store my media. The raid is connected to a whole home server. The HTPC I built has an 80 gig HD and a 300 Gig HD IIRC.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrowmanChicago* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have a list of components you used? Would it make sense for me to do a 1080p system even though I only will be using the system to watch DVDs? There are a few companies out there like Cellar Cinima etc. that are charging a fortune to build these systems and I wanted to try and save a little money. thanks a lot.



The HTPC I built does 1080 no problem. In fact when I first built it, I was playing 4 1080 movies on it at the same time. I posted screen shots of the system usage during the playback somewhere here in this thread I beleive. The system actually runs better than my Quad Xeon Mac.


Ruben


----------



## CrowmanChicago




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was actually going to sell the HTPC I built. I ended up not ever using it due to using another server I had. If anyone is interested in it, send me a PM.
> 
> 
> I use a 16 terabyte raid to store my media. The raid is connected to a whole home server. The HTPC I built has an 80 gig HD and a 300 Gig HD IIRC.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Sandman, I sent you a PM.


----------



## CrowmanChicago




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The HTPC I built does 1080 no problem. In fact when I first built it, I was playing 4 1080 movies on it at the same time. I posted screen shots of the system usage during the playback somewhere here in this thread I beleive. The system actually runs better than my Quad Xeon Mac.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Would something like this work with your HTPC?

http://cgi.*********/Dual-Core-3u-NA...QQcmdZViewItem


----------



## irishgond

Wheres the link/pics of how you achieved the THX on your screen? Thx


----------



## rx-8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irishgond* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wheres the link/pics of how you achieved the THX on your screen? Thx



Where is it stated that the SMX is THX certified?


----------



## richlo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rx-8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where is it stated that the SMX is THX certified?




I think he meant that the SPLASH startup of a movie on the SMX is showing THX, not necessarily THX certified...Basically as screen shot of THX..


OOpps..IM WRONG!!.hahahah..anyways not THX


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *richlo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think he meant that the SPLASH startup of a movie on the SMX is showing THX, not necessarily THX certified...Basically as screen shot of THX..



I never saw that.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I never saw that.



I know that one of your screen images had SmX on it. Maybe he looked at it real quiclky and thought it said THX?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that one of your screen images had SmX on it. Maybe he looked at it real quiclky and thought it said THX?
> 
> 
> Joe



I think we have a winner.


----------



## BocaPimp

no joe & ruben, i think hes talking about this..











Ha Ha..


----------



## jmorris644

Wow,


That is the exact room that I wanted to build underground before I started my current theater. Although my design had a slanted floor. But it was going to cost me over $100k just to do the digging and create the room exterior. And I would have had to dig up my basketball court.


Is this your room Derek?


Joe


----------



## irishgond

Yes, the one with SMX...looks like its silk screened on...photoshop? or image showing through the screen?


----------



## Chiahead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow,
> 
> 
> That is the exact room that I wanted to build underground before I started my current theater. Although my design had a slanted floor. But it was going to cost me over $100k just to do the digging and create the room exterior. And I would have had to dig up my basketball court.
> 
> 
> Is this your room Derek?
> 
> 
> Joe



No that is TrikinCurt's theater. I call it the bomb shelter theater.


----------



## SmX

Anyone considering getting the same amps I got (Crown XTi Series) should probably reconsider.


I am having major issues with my 5 amps. The volume controls do not work anymore on some of the amps. I turn the volumes all the way down to 0 on all the amps and I still here the audio as if I never touched them.


I looked into the Crown forums and allot of people are having issues with the volume control as well. They are great sounding amps, but they were not made to well.


Ruben


----------



## Winkelmann

Ruben,

I've had so many problems with pro audio gear. The pots usually suck, I always have to blast them clean with compressed air. My plan is to stick a few McIntosh's in my theater rack.


Winkelmann


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone considering getting the same amps I got (Crown XTi Series) should probably reconsider.
> 
> 
> I am having major issues with my 5 amps. The volume controls do not work anymore on some of the amps. I turn the volumes all the way down to 0 on all the amps and I still here the audio as if I never touched them.
> 
> 
> I looked into the Crown forums and allot of people are having issues with the volume control as well. They are great sounding amps, but they were not made to well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Wow, thanks!! I was just looking at amps and thinking of the Crowns. I had seen a pretty good price on some but had not started any real research yet.


Once again!! Super Ruben to the rescue!!










BTW, did you get my PM?


Joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I've had so many problems with pro audio gear. The pots usually suck, I always have to blast them clean with compressed air. My plan is to stick a few McIntosh's in my theater rack.
> 
> 
> Winkelmann



The funny thing is I never touched the volumes. Once I installed the amps, I put all the volumes to 100% and left them that way until the other day when I was trying to figure out why my center chanenel stopped working. Three channels on the amps no longer work at all as well (I forgot to mention that above). I use to have 10 working channels and now I got 7.


I may have to return all 5 amps for repair which I really did not want to do.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, did you get my PM?
> 
> 
> Joe



No, I never did.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I also forgot to mention that my Theater is going to be featured in one of the upcoming issues of Home Theater Magazine. So if anyone see's it, let me know the issue.


Ruben


----------



## Winkelmann




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The funny thing is I never touched the volumes.
> 
> Ruben



Were they ever exposed to dust or excessive humidity?


----------



## SbWillie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also forgot to mention that my Theater is going to be featured in one of the upcoming issues of Home Theater Magazine. So if anyone see's it, let me know the issue.
> 
> 
> Ruben



they didn't tell ya which issue?


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Winkelmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Were they ever exposed to dust or excessive humidity?



You'd think that dust or humidity shouldn't be an issue unless they actually gotten wet.

I mean some of these amps are used in gigs at some really crappy places. You knw the ones with cyclone fencing covering the stage.










Maybe try out the Mackie amps.


----------



## ebr

I've had zero problems with my QSCs so far [knock] [knock]...


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also forgot to mention that my Theater is going to be featured in one of the upcoming issues of Home Theater Magazine. So if anyone see's it, let me know the issue.
> 
> 
> Ruben



How could you forget such a thing !!! Congrats in advance !







Your theater will certainly get some sales for them I think.


Art


----------



## AnthonyP

Congrats Sandman


----------



## markley11

Congratulations on the magazine article. You really deserve it!


If you ditch the Crowns, you may want to look into the Cinepro amps. I bet you would really like them!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow congrats on the press, that has to feel really good...


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BocaPimp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> no joe & ruben, i think hes talking about this..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ha Ha..




Whos theater is this, I have some questions for them...


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whos theater is this, I have some questions for them...



Trikin Curt - here you go:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=754073


----------



## Art Sonneborn














For me ,there is just something special about that solid concrete "bunker" design !










Art


----------



## monsoon

Gotta love that retro Cold War motiff


----------



## TravisP

Woohoo !







after 3 and a half days of reading this thread from start to finish and 108 pages and 3230 post later







I finally made it to the end.


Ruben !


I got to first say that your HT is stunning and incredible.

I give you the highest congrats on your HT and the fact of it being published in a magazine is simpley AWSOME.


There is nothing more gratifying than doing a project on your own with your own designs "Even if you barrowed a few ideas" and to see the finished results is so self gratifying.


I'm in the planning process of my HT construction and I buy what ever I can afford and I'm always looking for great deals and discounts and cheaper ways to build things.

I buy a lot of my equipment on "Lay Away" payments, I'm a Cash only type of guy so I don't go in to dept.


I started out with a Mitsubishi HD1000U DLP projector "First time ever owning a projector" and a DIY 106" 16:9 screen.


My audio so far is a Yamaha RX-V2600 which I plan only using for a preamp/processor and use outboard amps.

But I have yet to choose a brand of amp yet.

I was looking in to the same Crown amps your are using untell I read your post about the problems you are having with them.

I was also looking at the Monster MPA 3250 SS 3-channels amp and the Monster MPA 2250 SS 2-channel amps but I'm not sure on those either.


Although I do plan on buying the Klipsch THX Ultra2 7.1 system, I was hooked and blown away after hearing them at my local store here in Portland Oregon.


I'm not sure if my Mitsubishi HD1000U DLP will work good for 235:1 format with a Anamorphic lens but I was planning on buying one of your SmX AT screens after reading all the info you have about them, I will be sending you a email some time soon on that.










I think I might have to upgrade my projector in the near future.










Thank you for the intensive thread full of great information, links, and detailed descriptions on how to build, columns and such, I will be using them for my prodject.


Thanks Again


Travis


----------



## crackyflipside




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me ,there is just something special about that solid concrete "bunker" design !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Damn, he even made a concrete riser. He has me beat there.... And I thought my HT had allot of concrete!


----------



## Soundood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone considering getting the same amps I got (Crown XTi Series) should probably reconsider.
> 
> 
> I am having major issues with my 5 amps. The volume controls do not work anymore on some of the amps. I turn the volumes all the way down to 0 on all the amps and I still here the audio as if I never touched them.
> 
> 
> I looked into the Crown forums and allot of people are having issues with the volume control as well. They are great sounding amps, but they were not made to well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I understand there were some problems with the internal ribbon cable data and signal connectors on the early XTi amps. You may want to open them up and check them to see if they are seated. The good thing is that Crown is one of THE most responsive companies out there and if there is an issue, they will take care of you. I've not had any issues with any of the XTi's out in the field I sold but I do know there were some problems with the early ones they are now finding out about. Thing is, those amps are stupid good for the $$ and the current production units have been pretty well sorted out so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.


Oh, and congrats on the HT Magazine article!


----------



## TravisP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Soundood* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand there were some problems with the internal ribbon cable data and signal connectors on the early XTi amps. You may want to open them up and check them to see if they are seated. The good thing is that Crown is one of THE most responsive companies out there and if there is an issue, they will take care of you. I've not had any issues with any of the XTi's out in the field I sold but I do know there were some problems with the early ones they are now finding out about. Thing is, those amps are stupid good for the $$ and the current production units have been pretty well sorted out so I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.
> 
> 
> Oh, and congrats on the HT Magazine article!



I wish they would have the option for a black face so they would match the rest of my equipment.











Soundood !


I see you are about 5 hours from me.

I live at the bottom of the state by the Columbia River Gorge about 30 minutes from Portland, Oregon


I have looked at the other Crown amps "With Black Face Plates"

Are the Crown amps like Ruben's the only model you would recommend for use in a HT or with Klipsch Ultra2's ?


If Crown has corrected the problems in the later production runs, then I might consider them.


Travis


----------



## jmorris644

Ruben,


We are getting some humidity up here in cold minnesota. There are spots in my ceiling that are sagging a little. What did you use to adhere the fabric to the masonite? I used 3M 77 permanent spray adhesive but obviously I did n't get it saturated enough everywhere.


Joe


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> .....Next, We pre-cut 12 50" x 50" pieces of Black GoM Fabric to have ready to Wrap the panels. We then Sprayed a light coat of *3M #80 Spray Adhesive* to the First Panel and then Stretched the GoM Fabric over the Top of it and smoothed it out by hand. We then pulled the fabric tighly and began stapling with 1/2" staples. Each panel used about 4 refills of staples.




Post is here : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=8&pp=30


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ifeliciano* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Post is here : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=8&pp=30



Actually, I think I used #90 3M spray glue. That works best. It's like contact cement, you spray a little on the fabric and on the masonite and let it sit a minute before applying. The use it for headliners in cars.


Ruben


----------



## rx-8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The funny thing is I never touched the volumes. Once I installed the amps, I put all the volumes to 100% and left them that way until the other day when I was trying to figure out why my center chanenel stopped working. Three channels on the amps no longer work at all as well (I forgot to mention that above). I use to have 10 working channels and now I got 7.
> 
> 
> I may have to return all 5 amps for repair which I really did not want to do.
> 
> 
> Ruben





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also forgot to mention that my Theater is going to be featured in one of the upcoming issues of Home Theater Magazine. So if anyone see's it, let me know the issue.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Ruben...do you have any updates regarding your amps and upcoming review in Home Theater Magazine?


BTW... I just love your theater.


----------



## calv1n

Ruben,


Congratz on the magazine spread your HT certainly deserves the press









One issue I'll be looking for once its out.


Cheers

Calvin


----------



## SmX

Thanks guys,


I got word it is suppose to be in Best Magazine too. I never heard of that magazine but I am looking out for both issues.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rx-8* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben...do you have any updates regarding your amps and upcoming review in Home Theater Magazine?
> 
> 
> BTW... I just love your theater.



Thanks.


No the amps are still in the racks. I haven't really had much time to get in the theater since the launching of SmX. I also have ground noise coming from my Outlaw 990 whenever I turn on a device such as Xbox, HTPC or any other digital audio feed.


I noticed that when the amps and Outlaw 990 preamp are on by themselves there is no ground noise. But once I turn on a source and select the proper channel on the Outlaw the hum begins. So I have some wierd ground loop issue somewhere in the mix. I'm using Monster Power conditioners and all my wiring is on point.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I also want to pull down my star ceiling and do it again.


I found some better methods that work better after we did BocaPimps theater. The modified light boxes keep going bad after a couple months so I want to relocate them outside the theater and purchase two new ones.


Ruben


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also want to pull down my star ceiling and do it again.
> 
> 
> I found some better methods that work better after we did BocaPimps theater. The modified light boxes keep going bad after a couple months so I want to relocate them outside the theater and purchase two new ones.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


A new LED based light box will be out in a few months from the same place you bought the fiber. It produces no heat (and has no fan) so you could keep them in your columns. It will have different speed and sparkle pattern options that "you" can select with the push of a button. I plan to get one for my room as soon as they come out. It will be similar to THIS one but larger and much more flexibility. Price will be around $100.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> A new LED based light box will be out in a few months from the same place you bought the fiber. It produces no heat (and has no fan) so you could keep them in your columns. It will have different speed and sparkle pattern options that "you" can select with the push of a button. I plan to get one for my room as soon as they come out. It will be similar to THIS one but larger and much more flexibility. Price will be around $100.



LED is cool but it isn't bright enough for a room with ambient lighting on. The stars dissapear with very little light in a room.


Ruben


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> No the amps are still in the racks. I haven't really had much time to get in the theater since the launching of SmX. I also have ground noise coming from my Outlaw 990 whenever I turn on a device such as Xbox, HTPC or any other digital audio feed.
> 
> 
> I noticed that when the amps and Outlaw 990 preamp are on by themselves there is no ground noise. But once I turn on a source and select the proper channel on the Outlaw the hum begins. So I have some wierd ground loop issue somewhere in the mix. I'm using Monster Power conditioners and all my wiring is on point.
> 
> 
> Ruben



If its a ground loop, its there all the time - whether the equipment is on or not. The reason you don't hear it unless you turn on a source is because your 990 is muting the outputs when there is no source.


So, its not necessarily one of the peices of equipment you turn on that is the cause. Do you have a cable box hooked up? The cable giving a path to ground is one of the main causes of ground loops. But, I've also found that these pro amps tend to cause them as well. I had to run a 12ga wire from the grounding terminals on my QSCs to the antenna ground on my AVR (used as pre-pro) to tame my hum.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also want to pull down my star ceiling and do it again.
> 
> 
> I found some better methods that work better after we did BocaPimps theater. The modified light boxes keep going bad after a couple months so I want to relocate them outside the theater and purchase two new ones.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


Would you mind sharing the better methods? My ceiling is sagging now that there is hunidity in the air. I am going to have to redo it.










Joe


----------



## wayhigh

Are these all on the same circuit? I saw some strange ground skew problems like this not too long ago. They went away after I moved things to the same circuit.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> No the amps are still in the racks. I haven't really had much time to get in the theater since the launching of SmX. I also have ground noise coming from my Outlaw 990 whenever I turn on a device such as Xbox, HTPC or any other digital audio feed.


----------



## SVonhof




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LED is cool but it isn't bright enough for a room with ambient lighting on. The stars dissapear with very little light in a room.
> 
> 
> Ruben




Maybe it depends on the LED's they are using? They do make some 3 watt LED's now that are either blinding or close to it if you look right into them.


----------



## Fatawan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> No the amps are still in the racks. I haven't really had much time to get in the theater since the launching of SmX. I also have ground noise coming from my Outlaw 990 whenever I turn on a device such as Xbox, HTPC or any other digital audio feed.
> 
> 
> I noticed that when the amps and Outlaw 990 preamp are on by themselves there is no ground noise. But once I turn on a source and select the proper channel on the Outlaw the hum begins. So I have some wierd ground loop issue somewhere in the mix. I'm using Monster Power conditioners and all my wiring is on point.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Other 990 owners have had success taming hum by using balanced connections vs. the RCA's. As was said previously, cable boxes are big sources of ground loop hum. Turn on your HTPC or Xbox and start unplugging other sources like the cable connectors. Hum takes time to tame!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fatawan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Other 990 owners have had success taming hum by using balanced connections vs. the RCA's. As was said previously, cable boxes are big sources of ground loop hum. Turn on your HTPC or Xbox and start unplugging other sources like the cable connectors. Hum takes time to tame!



I'm only using balanced connections from the Outlaw to the amps. The balanced cables are 15' Mogami Golds.


The sources are connected to the Outlaw via digital coax or fiber.


I have an HD Zenith Sat Box, I will disconnect it to see if the hum goes away.


Thanks

Ruben


----------



## aquafire

Hey Sandmanx,


Im sure this was posted but I cant find the answer.


Can you please list the brands of cables you used, models, and price?


Hdmi?

In wall speaker cable?

Out of wall speaker cable?

Component?


thanks!

Will


----------



## Lindahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone considering getting the same amps I got (Crown XTi Series) should probably reconsider.
> 
> 
> I am having major issues with my 5 amps. The volume controls do not work anymore on some of the amps. I turn the volumes all the way down to 0 on all the amps and I still here the audio as if I never touched them.
> 
> 
> I looked into the Crown forums and allot of people are having issues with the volume control as well. They are great sounding amps, but they were not made to well.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I think this problem has been fixed in the latest firmware (odd, but I remember reading it was a firmware issue). I've been running my XTi 4000 for a couple months now with no issues. How long did you have to wait before the pots stopped working?


----------



## barhoram

Are you using serial (rs-232) control of any of your equipment? I found that the AMP that powers my bass shakers (controlled via rs-232) was causing a bad hum on my system. Even If the amp was unplugged, the rs-232 connection to the automation PC caused a hum.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aquafire* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Sandmanx,
> 
> 
> Im sure this was posted but I cant find the answer.
> 
> 
> Can you please list the brands of cables you used, models, and price?
> 
> 
> Hdmi?
> 
> In wall speaker cable?
> 
> Out of wall speaker cable?
> 
> Component?
> 
> 
> thanks!
> 
> Will



DVI Cables

10 Gauge Zip Cable for speakers (out of wall)

No COmponent Cables (Everything is DVI except xBox 360 is Component)


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Lindahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think this problem has been fixed in the latest firmware (odd, but I remember reading it was a firmware issue). I've been running my XTi 4000 for a couple months now with no issues. How long did you have to wait before the pots stopped working?




About 8 - 10 months and they stopped working. I never touched them in between the time I installed the amps until 8 - 10 months later.


If a firmware update will fix them, that will be awesome. I just don't want to have to send them all out to be fixed as I have 5 amps.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *barhoram* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you using serial (rs-232) control of any of your equipment? I found that the AMP that powers my bass shakers (controlled via rs-232) was causing a bad hum on my system. Even If the amp was unplugged, the rs-232 connection to the automation PC caused a hum.



No rs-232 cables in my set-up. I still have to find time to get in there and start eliminating cables to see what is the cause of the hum. The cable feeds sound like a good start.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Would you mind sharing the better methods? My ceiling is sagging now that there is hunidity in the air. I am going to have to redo it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



That really sucks










When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.


Ruben


----------



## Iteki

I found this thread by accident, and was immediately hooked. I started from post #1 and just finished catching up after several days of near continuous reading (and following all product links, referrals, etc).


Great job Sandman, not just on the build but on your willingness to share your experiences with us. Kudos also go to those that helped Sandman out with info, it was a truly a collaborative effort on many levels. And it spawned a screen company!?!?!? Awesome 


My wife and I will be purchasing our first home very soon, a small one at 3300 square feet or so. It is a 1 and 1/2 story, with the 1/2 story being the upstairs bonus room. The builder will charge me $XX,000 to add a media room/game room up there, but now I'm of a mind to just let them build the bonus room and leave it as as (with a 1/2 bath) and all the space open. Seeing yours and others DIY builds has given me the itch to try my hand and perhaps save some $$ as well.


Thanks for the inspiration guys...and wish me luck lol I'm gonna need it!


----------



## ebr

Iteki - don't let your builder charge you to put in a "media room". To most builders that means the same room he was going to build but with some wiring for speakers in the ceiling and an inflated cost. You can do so much better yourself.


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No rs-232 cables in my set-up. I still have to find time to get in there and start eliminating cables to see what is the cause of the hum. The cable feeds sound like a good start.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Cable feed is definitely the first place to look, but it still might not fix it. I addressed the cable feed with THIS , but still had hum. Another part of the problem for me turned out to be between my amp and pre-amp. Even with everything unplugged from my pre-amp I still had hum. I called B&K and they told me that in a rack system, when you have different components with grounded plugs (both the amp and pre-amp are grounded as are the PC's), it can induce hum. The reason is that the rack is grounding the components together and so are the different 3 prong plugs. So you have multiple paths to ground. They told me to eliminate the ground on the pre-amp (not the Amp!) since it was chassis grounded anyway. I didn't want to take out the ground so I used one of THESE . That took care of most of it but I still have some that I think it being created by the Grafikeye. Another solution in a rack system is to wire all the component chassis together - I haven't tried that yet. Anyway, in my case there are at least 3 causes (and counting), and I'm still not there.

THIS is a great article on Hum and how it is created


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Iteki - don't let your builder charge you to put in a "media room". To most builders that means the same room he was going to build but with some wiring for speakers in the ceiling and an inflated cost. You can do so much better yourself.




Thanks ebr...I'm starting to understand that a bit better after seeing some of the builds on this forum. You're exactly right about the speaker wires...when I asked the builder how they soundproofed the room, they said "oh we can do that if you want, but it will cost more". So yes, they essentially build the same room, run some speaker cable (placed way up high on the wall near the ceiling and that's about it. No stage, no risers, no soundproofing.


I think I can do better.


----------



## McCall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iteki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks ebr...I'm starting to understand that a bit better after seeing some of the builds on this forum. You're exactly right about the speaker wires...when I asked the builder how they soundproofed the room, they said "oh we can do that if you want, but it will cost more". So yes, they essentially build the same room, run some speaker cable (placed way up high on the wall near the ceiling and that's about it. No stage, no risers, no soundproofing.
> 
> 
> I think I can do better.



For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.

If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.
> 
> If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.



Totally agree. Good advice McCall.


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For heaven sake never let the builder so "soundproofing" they do not have the faintest clue about it. Even when you hire a Home theater design company to do your room you are taking a big chance on Many of them, because even they don't really know what they are doing in a lot of cases. It is too easy to hang your shingle and call yourself a home theater designer. That said there are some real professionals out there as well, but you have to really do your home work to end up with one.
> 
> If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.



Good idea, thanks! I'll continue lurking and soak up as much as I can until then


----------



## Chiahead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you are willing to put in the time here you can do a great job yourself. As to your room, I would go as far as to tell the builder to leave the room to the studs. that is where you are going to need to start so why have to rip down the drywall they just put up. Plumbing rough in would be ok.



The builder probably can't do this. If they leave the drywall off, it most likely won't pass inspection, then they can't sell the house to you. Also builders don't want you coming in doing the work before they are done for insurance and if the house falls through before closing it is still there's. Most won't let you touch the house until you have closed.


----------



## McCall

Well I guess it depends where you live, I have not checked in the past 5 years but before that you could go to lots of New housing around here and find completely unfinished, Bonus, rooms in attic or over garages.

Even houses with completely unfinished upstairs, sold as starter houses with expansion.


----------



## Chiahead

I'm in Colorado, and that would have been awesome for some of the stuff in my house.


----------



## Lindahl

I'm no expert, but how is that any different from an unfinished basement? It's not like an unfinished basement will pass inspection, either. Just tell the builder you don't care if you don't get the full 'finished' square footage, on the house closing, just mark it as unfinished non-living space. No?


----------



## ebr

Yes - it could be done as unfinsihed or "partially finished" space and be fine.


But, chia is probably right about you being able to work on it before you move in. That probably won't fly with most arrangements. I was lucky in my past two builds as they were structured such that I was able to work on my finishes along side the builder's crews. So my theater was ready about the same time as the rest of the house. I did have to sign an insurance waiver, however.


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes - it could be done as unfinsihed or "partially finished" space and be fine.
> 
> 
> But, chia is probably right about you being able to work on it before you move in. That probably won't fly with most arrangements. I was lucky in my past two builds as they were structured such that I was able to work on my finishes along side the builder's crews. So my theater was ready about the same time as the rest of the house. I did have to sign an insurance waiver, however.



Thanks for the replies everyone...I'll be sure to inquire with the builder about the possibility of leaving the room unfinished. I wouldn't really need to work on it while the house was being built, I still have much to learn about the construction process. I think with the right tools and a few knowledgeable hands I could really take this project on. It wouldn't have to be all at once, and in fact financially it probably wouldn't be practical to tackle it all at once without going into more debt.


I can see myself taking the year to do it right and on a budget. Luckily, I work for a 4 star hotel in the IT department, and I've been helping people with their PCs for years at no charge. Hopefully this goodwill may earn me an afternoon or two of free or inexpensive labor from some of our Engineering staff (electrical, plumbing, evern sheetrock/painting) that I've assisted in the past.


I can keep my old 50" Sony Wega, Onkyo 602, Mirage S10 sub and Athena S.5 bookshelves in the downstairs living room until the HT is done. I will be replacing all of that for the HT, but I don't want to go without for a year, nor do I want to buy new 1 year before I need it and miss out on newer features, price cuts, etc.


I don't want to hijack Sandman's thread, so back to lurk mode for me  I'll open a thread of my own when I'm ready to start serious planning.


----------



## SmX

Well, this weekend I made some time to troubleshoot the hum in my system. When I first wired my system a year ago, there was no hum, then later on a hum mysteriously appeared. So I found the problem. It was a second powered Velodyne DD18 sub I had in the back of my theater.


The RCA wire was plugged in the sub and into the 2nd sub output on the back of the Outlaw. Once I unplugged the 2nd sub, the hum went away. The hum sound wasn't coming from the sub itself, it was just a ground issue caused by connecting an RCA cable to my 2nd sub.


So everything is back to normal now, besides my Crown XTI's not working properly. I spent half the day trying to figure out how to update the firmware on the amps because for some reason the System Arch. software was not seeing any of my amps via USB. So after trying every amp and Googling half the day, I learned that if the firmware version in the XTi's are lower than a certain version, the System Arch. software will not see the amps to do the firmware update.


So I looked at my firmware version on the XTi's and it said 0.00.00.1 BC (Before Christ)







. So now I had to find the older firmware updater that Crown use to use. So after trying to find that for another couple hours, I found out it comes in the System Arch. software zipped folder, DOH.


So I finally got all 5 of my XTi's up to the latest firmware and the channels are still not working. Silly me, I was hoping the firmware update would reset some internal settings and fix the pods problem, but it didn't.


So I guess I will call Crown support department tomorrow and see if they can make any DIY reccomendations for repair or if possible send me some new face plates with new pods.


Ruben


----------



## dbbarron

Doing it all over again, would you still use the XTIs, or would you use more conventional pro amps with appropriate external processing (DSP) as needed (xover, eq, etc.). Relying on the PC has made me a bit nervous, but it should really be a set and forget effort. I am drawn to the nice front panels and GUI of some of the external DSP and xover boxes.


I am in the decision making process and in need of 6 XTIs (5 XTI 1000s for LCRs and surrounds; and a XTI4000 for the subs).


db


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbbarron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doing it all over again, would you still use the XTIs, or would you use more conventional pro amps with appropriate external processing (DSP) as needed (xover, eq, etc.). Relying on the PC has made me a bit nervous, but it should really be a set and forget effort. I am drawn to the nice front panels and GUI of some of the external DSP and xover boxes.
> 
> 
> I am in the decision making process and in need of 6 XTIs (5 XTI 1000s for LCRs and surrounds; and a XTI4000 for the subs).
> 
> 
> db



The amps were good when they worked. I just sent all 5 back to Crown today for repair. Lets see if they get them to the latest working state. Crown customer service was great they emailed me overnight UPS labels to ship the 5 amps to them and will have them fixed or replaced within 24 hours they are saying.


Once I get them back, I will let you know how I like them. I am starting to thnk I never heard them in a full working state.


Why do you need 5 XTi's for the LCR's and Surrounds? Thats 10 channels. Do you have 4 mains or 6 surrounds?


Ruben


----------



## dbbarron

You're making me nervous about the XTIs.


Each of the LCRs is BiAmped, that's 6 channels; then 4 surrounds = 10 channels.


(plus the subs).


db


----------



## Fatawan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That really sucks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.
> 
> 
> Ruben



So you would do the exact same procedure that you outlined here before, except use the Fidelio Black Velvet instead of black GOM?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dbbarron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're making me nervous about the XTIs.
> 
> 
> Each of the LCRs is BiAmped, that's 6 channels; then 4 surrounds = 10 channels.
> 
> 
> (plus the subs).
> 
> 
> db



Crown got my amps in today and repaired 3 of them and are overnighting them back to me so I have them tomorrow. They are overnighting the other 2 tomorrow as they said the repair issues were more involved.


That's some fast ass service.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Crown got my amps in today and repaired 3 of them and are overnighting them back to me so I have them tomorrow. They are overnighting the other 2 tomorrow as they said the repair issues were more involved.
> 
> 
> That's some fast ass service.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I got my Crowns installed and they are all working fine now. Hopefully they stay working from here on.


Ruben


----------



## misterkit

I'm pretty sure thats what he is talking about. He just did a theater with BocaPimp and thats the method they use I believe.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fatawan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So you would do the exact same procedure that you outlined here before, except use the Fidelio Black Velvet instead of black GOM?


----------



## Lindahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I say better methods, I am going to use the black velvet for the ceiling panels to turn it into a true black hole. The black GoM reflects too much light for my low ceiling and it really bothers me.



Be careful that you don't make the room too dead in the highs. Velvet across the entire ceiling will suck out quite a bit of the highs.


----------



## jtwfan

Wonderful thread Sandman! Can you give us an update on the final pieces of equipment with prices that are in your theater? I'm putting together a budget for my own first HT to be modeled after your own and this info would be a great help.


----------



## Ragnarok

Does this guy own SmX Theater Solutions or something?


----------



## chinadog

It's where SmX started! He turned it into a company....


Bud


----------



## Ragnarok

What did he do before SmX? One hell of a home theater he's built.


----------



## ccoolidge




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ragnarok* /forum/post/11371201
> 
> 
> What did he do before SmX? One hell of a home theater he's built.



























Though it will take some time, read his thread. You'll get some clues as to what business Sandman was/is in outside of SMX.


By the way Sandman, I remember reading that you were planning on replacing your GOM ceiling panels with the Fidelio black velvet. Did that ever happen?


----------



## audiophyllic

Just a quick note of thanks, I have been lurking here reading........and reading..........and reading. I have also been reading some of the other notable theater builds like Poindexter's, Art's and so on.


Your thread has offered so much detail and documentation(success and failure) that I just wanted to thank you for your time and effort.


----------



## jeremy nebraska

what camera do you use?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/7836897
> 
> 
> I got a couple PMs and emails from guys asking me what I was using to trim out my SmX screen frame. What I'm using for the screen trim is Black Fidelio Velvet. This stuff Is the blackest of black your going to get in any Velvet, Velour, Duvetyne, Felt, Suede, etc. This material is like a black hole outside in Floridas Bright Sun. I took some pictures of it outdoors on a bright sunny day out here in Florida. To get an idea how much light is hitting it, that is a Dark Purple Feather on the Fidelio velvet that is being washed out by the bright sun.
> 
> 
> I ordered my Fidelio Velvet from HERE These are the only people I am aware of that carry it. They did a great packing job and sent me a large complimentary purple feather with the order
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The back of the material is a dark black as well, so you can see how well of a job the Fidelio Velvet does rejecting light. I don't know of any projector that is more powerful than the sun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These last 2 shots are extreme close ups showing the lint on it.


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeremy nebraska* /forum/post/11516199
> 
> 
> what camera do you use?


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...el#post7940326 


Rebel XT.


----------



## strange_brew

Suhweet! I was just on the verge of getting some crap velvet locally when Jeremy N. reminded me of Sandman's post. Just ordered 4 yds from the Millinery. Thanks again Ruben!


----------



## BritInVA

Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/11521550
> 
> 
> Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.



Joann hasn't setup shop in the Great White North to my knowledge. The local equivalents don't have much in the way of velvet either. The one good sample I did find locally was $60/yd.


----------



## The Hound




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/11521550
> 
> 
> Joann's supposidly sell JB Fidelio Velvet but never found it on line or seen a SKU.



Yes, JoAnn's does sell fidelio.

Every color but black, they can not order black either.

I went to 3 local JoAnn's with the same result.

In each store in each catalog the black has a huge X through it under which it says "Not Available".

I finally found it at a local mom and pop fabric outlet.

The price was no less then online but, I saved shipping.

The masking cost as much as the frame material.


----------



## roar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/11521450
> 
> 
> Suhweet! I was just on the verge of getting some crap velvet locally when Jeremy N. reminded me of Sandman's post. Just ordered 4 yds from the Millinery. Thanks again Ruben!



Craig...


Where did you check locally? The Fabricland on Rebecca had nothing to choose from but I went to Hamilton on Ottawa Street and found lots of Velvet that I thought looked pretty decent, I didn't buy, I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger, but the Fidelio Velvet online from the states seemed a little cost prohibative for me after shipping and everything.


Though if my theatre looked like yours I imagine I wouldn't let the cost of a little velvet bother me


----------



## jeremy nebraska

that's a nasty setup. and i mean nasty in the good way.

if i'm ever in your area, can i stop in to see what it looks like in person?


jeremy



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/8343261
> 
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> 
> I took some pictures in the theater last night. I am still doing some work on the room, like curving the screen wall to follow the screen, finish trimming the column covers, modify my projector hush box to accomodate the Isco lens, find some damn step lights that fit and some other little odds and ends.
> 
> 
> Here are some pictures for the people that have been asking...Ruben


----------



## jeremy nebraska

thank you.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/11516924
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...el#post7940326
> 
> 
> Rebel XT.


----------



## Jon V

Ruben,

Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.

JV


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jon V* /forum/post/11580244
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.
> 
> JV



Link? Would love to see the spread!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jon V* /forum/post/11580244
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> Congrats on the October HT/AV Interiors mag spread. Looks great there, but doesn't convey all the spectacular work and creative solutions you personally invested in this creation (and shared with us). Hope to finally have my SmX screen up soon after lots of upgrades to my room, many inspired by you. I hope the article brings you lots of screen sales.
> 
> JV



Thanks! I just heard about this 15 minutes ago from someone else. The magazine is not on shelves yet here at Barnes and Noble nor Borders here in Florida. I heard it is in the October issue of Home Theater Magazine with Halle Berry on the cover. It is also coming out in some other magazine I mentioned earlier in this thread.


I plugged as many people I could







including the Mecca home AVS, Brian Pape, Ryan Kramer (Chirpie), Green Glue, Cinemar and a few others (including SmX







). Hopefully everyone made it through the editors cut.


I have to thank everyone here on AVS that inspired me to build this theater and start a great company from it.


Can't wait to see it.


Thanks for the heads up!

Ruben


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Congrats on the article...


----------



## SVonhof

Hmm, now I have to keep looking in the mailbox to see if I got the latest issue of HT mag. What was the other one Ruben? I don't remember and really don't want to go through 110 pages of this thread to find it....


----------



## AccessHA

Yeah, congrats Ruben... I just found it on the shelves the other day. Well deserved but it should have been a full featured spread (no pun intended).


----------



## mbgonzomd

Read it last night. Good article, but does not even graze the surface of what you were able to create. Bpape and green glue made the cut, I think the others were edited out. Oh, the SmX reference made it also, but it did not sound like it was your company. Nothing like a little free publicity! Congrats.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/11588832
> 
> 
> Hmm, now I have to keep looking in the mailbox to see if I got the latest issue of HT mag. What was the other one Ruben? I don't remember and really don't want to go through 110 pages of this thread to find it....



Best Magazine.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11584784
> 
> 
> Congrats on the article...



Thanks!


Ruben


----------



## SmX

It's the October Issue of Home Theater magazine (has a yellow cover with Halle Berry on it). It was featured the Audio Videos Interiors section.


They kind of switched the wording around. I am not a Star Wars fan and I didn't do my star ceiling because I like Star Wars







. I actually almost hung myself through the last few Star Wars that came out. Star Wars was so much better when I was 7 - 12 years old. Trying to watch it now is like watching water boil for me










All and all, I guess they covered what they could in the space they had allocated for it.


My next home theater I build will be on the cover (hopefully)










Ruben


----------



## BritInVA

Ruben,


Nice to see a HT build I have grown with in major publication. One of the first that I've seen them mentioning other inflences other than HT Magazine (who uses them as an influence anyway?). Some good kudos to AVS, GG, Bryan, and of course SMX. It a shame they didn't showcase your HT more as it is one of the best DIY HT's I've had previlege of following.


Look forward to seeing more of the other great AVS builds in the Mag.....such as Buds (Chinadog), Craigs (strange_view), Jasons (Jikkjack), Mike (Zinema), Ronnie (ronnie_jackson), Steve (scaesare) and Steve(SWithey)...............and of course Jeffs (BIGmouthinDC).


Sorry if I didn't mention your build - your all heros and have been an inspiration now and always to me.


Cheers,

Mark


----------



## HeyNow^

Yeah,what they said, Ruben. That article didn't do your build any justice. Congrats.


----------



## strange_brew

let me add my $0.02. I ripped off so many of your ideas, its ridiculous. Thanks for the inspiration. And, I agree, the article did not do it justice. But we, we know the truth!!!


----------



## timbreb

Dang... day late and dollar short. Finally got to that section of the magazine and was surprised to see a name and pictures that I recognized. Congrats Ruben on the article.


----------



## calv1n

Ruben,


Congratulations on the recognition and the article. Glad to see you’re getting some press for your exceptional theater and great company (SMX).


All the best

Calvin


----------



## Mark P

Ruben,

Stash back a copy and send it with my screen, cant get a copy where I am


----------



## FusionRx

on a business trip and needed some reading material. Lo and behold what do I see, a theatre I watched progress. Congrats!!


Good product plugs and people plugs too.


----------



## eapleitez

I just finished going through the whole thread. Envy barely scratches the surface! Seriously, your theater is my favorite out of the whole forum that I have seen, and the fact that you did it all with your own hands makes it even more special! Outstanding job, hopefully one day I will have a theater even half as nice as yours.


----------



## jmorris644

Well Ruben,


It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I thought it was time to drop you a message. I have been kind of waiting for this post. And the time is right.


Your thread became one of the most watched threads on the whole forum. I know that way back when you were hoping it was going to be you that posted the 1000th post on your thread but somehow I beat you to it. Well, here I am posting MY 1000th post here on your thread.







(I can't wait to see what I get for 1000 posts!)


I was one of the first people to visit your thread and I watched as you built your theater. Doing some things right and doing some things wrong. And then redoing the things that you did wrong. And all along sharing it all with us.


We all learned a LOT from you and we also, through your thread, learned a LOT from each other. We also gained some good friends through your thread and your efforts.


Many of us, again thanks to you, took some of your ideas and used them in our own theaters. I for one used your stage design and your light tray design.


I was the first guy to purchase your new screen material way before you even had thoughts about a company. I still love the material and could not be more happier about it. Although, I am putting my order in for a frame!!










I just wanted to give you a big thanks for making the last 2 years of building a theater one of the most enjoyable projects that I have ever undertaken. I would never have developed the level of theater that I ended up with had it not been for the great example that you set.


I just wanted, on my 1000th post, to say...... THANKS!!!


Joe


----------



## jmorris644

WhooHoo!!!!


I am an AVS Special Member now!!!!































Joe


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/11834211
> 
> 
> WhooHoo!!!!
> 
> 
> I am an AVS Special Member now!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Yea, but you haven't figured out how to write your own ticket.


----------



## Logic_BomB

Nice to see you got a mention in the magazine. This was the thread that got me into the idea of building my own theater. Or should I say, got me into the idea of being able to do it myself. What I thought was daunting seemed do-able after this thread.


Congrats!


----------



## Iteki

Wasn't sure if this had been mentioned:

SMX mentioned in Electronic House


----------



## NeoOiler

Like Strange Brew above and a lot of people on here, I liberally "borrowed" HAAHHA a ton of ideas from Sandmans. I mean my stage is pretty much an exact copy and of course the centre piece is the SMX Screen.


Congrats on the magazine article. Cant seem to find one up here in Edmonton


Ryan


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/11834207
> 
> 
> Well Ruben,
> 
> 
> It's been a while since I posted in this thread but I thought it was time to drop you a message. I have been kind of waiting for this post. And the time is right.
> 
> 
> Your thread became one of the most watched threads on the whole forum. I know that way back when you were hoping it was going to be you that posted the 1000th post on your thread but somehow I beat you to it. Well, here I am posting MY 1000th post here on your thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I can't wait to see what I get for 1000 posts!)
> 
> 
> I was one of the first people to visit your thread and I watched as you built your theater. Doing some things right and doing some things wrong. And then redoing the things that you did wrong. And all along sharing it all with us.
> 
> 
> We all learned a LOT from you and we also, through your thread, learned a LOT from each other. We also gained some good friends through your thread and your efforts.
> 
> 
> Many of us, again thanks to you, took some of your ideas and used them in our own theaters. I for one used your stage design and your light tray design.
> 
> 
> I was the first guy to purchase your new screen material way before you even had thoughts about a company. I still love the material and could not be more happier about it. Although, I am putting my order in for a frame!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wanted to give you a big thanks for making the last 2 years of building a theater one of the most enjoyable projects that I have ever undertaken. I would never have developed the level of theater that I ended up with had it not been for the great example that you set.
> 
> 
> I just wanted, on my 1000th post, to say...... THANKS!!!
> 
> 
> Joe



Thanks Joe, CONGATULATIONS!!!!. Yes it is true, you were the first SmX customer (besides myself)









Thanks for making your 1,000th post in my thread. I wish I could be a little more active here myself except I have been exceptionally busy for the past few months.


You're welcomed. I need to thank all the AVSers that inspired my build which included Art Sonneborn and a couple other at the time I can't recall. I know I stole ideas here and there as well and made them work for my build.


I remember a couple years ago there was only a few theater builds in this section, it has grown drastically since then. I guess the HT market is booming! All and All, it's a beautiful thing.










There has been so many great construction threads over the past couple years that I followed. I still check into some of the new builds to see what is going on.


Your SmX screen is here waiting










Ruben


----------



## yongyh

I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....

What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yongyh* /forum/post/11910970
> 
> 
> I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....
> 
> What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??



Look for the room calculator at the bottom of the home page

http://www.tmlaboratories.com/


----------



## yongyh

Quote:

Originally Posted by yongyh

I really love to have a home theatre just like you guys.....

What is the ideal formula for lengthXwidth of a home theatre and also how big the screen should be from the first viewer??


Look for the room calculator at the bottom of the home page

http://www.tmlaboratories.com/ 

__________________

Kansas City Area Enthusiasts Unite!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for the reply ...how about the screen size ratio within the first row... i have been surfing the web and has few formula.... some use the triangle math formula some uses distance from the first row is 3 times the screen size diagonally.....do you guys have any practical ratio for the screen size...height?....thanks.....


----------



## theraapster

After about a week of on and off reading, I finally made it to the end and I must say this is very impressive. I have two questions for you though. First how did all the dvd ripping turn out, and second, have you started/completed your fish tank that you talked about?


----------



## JrCRXHF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CrowmanChicago* /forum/post/9964415
> 
> 
> Do you happen to have a list of components you used? Would it make sense for me to do a 1080p system even though I only will be using the system to watch DVDs? There are a few companies out there like Cellar Cinima etc. that are charging a fortune to build these systems and I wanted to try and save a little money. thanks a lot.



I have a AMD 3800+ at 2.3ghz and a 8800GTS do you think i can do 1080p to my TV with that hardware.


----------



## SmX

For anyone who did not get to see the article of our theater in Home Theater Magazine, Here Is The Article Online 


Enjoy!

Ruben


----------



## warrenP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/11985639
> 
> 
> For anyone who did not get to see the article of our theater in Home Theater Magazine, Here Is The Article Online
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Ruben



Nice! Great to see this online as well.


BTW, were you actually watching The Last Mimzy for the photos?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *warrenP* /forum/post/11985964
> 
> 
> Nice! Great to see this online as well.
> 
> 
> BTW, were you actually watching The Last Mimzy for the photos?



Nope, they just Photoshopped that in there. I actually had no clue what movie that was from, now I know










Ruben


----------



## bpape

Congrats Ruben. It would have been nice to get a little more space for what you accomplished in that space. Knowing it from the beginning, there's so much more than they could possibly cover.


Bryan


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Ruben, congrats, great article. It was very classy of you to plug the forum and its many great contributors/experts.


----------



## Mark P

The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.


Atleast it wasnt Gigli


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/11988692
> 
> 
> The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.
> 
> 
> Atleast it wasnt Gigli



Gonna get the poster?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/11988692
> 
> 
> The last Mimzy? AAAaaaaaRRrrrGgggggg.
> 
> 
> Atleast it wasnt Gigli



Yeah, you think the guy that built the theater would have a say in what movie he was watching!!


----------



## chirpie

That Star Wars quote from the article is too funny. Oh the joys of being simplified.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/11988814
> 
> 
> Yeah, you think the guy that built the theater would have a say in what movie he was watching!!



Im not sure it would be magazine appropriate


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/11989968
> 
> 
> Im not sure it would be magazine appropriate



Oops, yeah. I forgot we were talking abour Ruben










Joe


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/11990724
> 
> 
> Oops, yeah. I forgot we were talking abour Ruben
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



They do have those little blur filters and when used sparingly, could add some nice " features" to the article


----------



## Yellowmann

Wow, what an amazing design and work on your HT. Do you have final pics yet?


----------



## mbgonzomd

The final pics are like 30 pages back. Good luck finding them







.


----------



## judsonp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Yellowmann* /forum/post/12310110
> 
> 
> Wow, what an amazing design and work on your HT. Do you have final pics yet?



Here is what I found: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...61#post8343261


----------



## Kings Treasure

THIS IS SOME GREAT WORK.


has anyone thought of using sheer weave instead of burlap for bass traps and any other acoustic treatments. just wondering


----------



## SmX

Well its upgrade time. I recently switched out my Optoma H79 for the 3-Chip Infocus SP777. What an amazing upgrade that was. I was getting about 7 - 10 FL before with the Optoma (when the bulb was new and in High mode) and now I am getting about 30 FL. My 12' wide 2.35 screen looks as bright as a plasma now. The depth of field is incredible the 3D effect is incredible plus no more rainbow effects. The SP-777 uses 3 darkchip3 chips instead of 1 darkchip3 like my previous PJ. The 3 chips eliminate the color wheel.


The one downside to upgrading to this new PJ is that the PJ lens and anamorphic lens combo and throw distance has changed my projected image geometry. The projected Image is no longer as distorted as it was before so I must now change the radius of my screen and wall again. This is fine because I am installing a ProMask-Curv in there so I can change the wall to match the new screen/masking. I am going to go with a standard 40' radius curve. It will not be as dramatic as the previous curve, but the image will fit the screen much better.


Also as part of my upgrade path, I am moving all of my equipment out of the theater. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made in the first place. Having the equipment in the theater adds noise (xBox, HTPC), heat and distracting lights. I am putting 2 new racks right outside the theater entrance.


I will be posting some pictures soon.


Ruben


----------



## aquafire

Awesome theater.


Are the chairs for sale? Thought I read you may change them..


thanks,

WS


----------



## BasicBlak

Looking forward to seeing the results of the new upgrades, Ruben. Well done! (And congrats on your setup being featured recently in Home Theater Mag.)


----------



## Mark P

Mmmm 3 chipper, 3D look, mmmmmmm


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Since I also have a H79 I'm curious why you didn't opt for a 1080P upgrade?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/12482298
> 
> 
> Since I also have a H79 I'm curious why you didn't opt for a 1080P upgrade?



I'm not really into all the 1080 hoopla. I personally don't see any quality differences between 720 & 1080 just like many others here on AVS. Yes, the pixels are smaller on 1080 but from my seating distance that is irrelevant. Plus there are no current sources that make the 1080 outshine 720.


I wanted more light output and the solid feeling of a 3 Chip DLP with no rainbows and the great 3-chip immersive effect. Also, I am not willing to drop $40k on a 1080 3 chip so it can be worth half price next year. When I bought my Optoma H79 I paid $4200.00 for it which was a great deal at the time, now they are going for $900 new. It depreciated 5 times the original cost in such a short time. I still feel the Optoma H79 is probably one of the better single chip DLPs out today from all the PJs I have seen. It just doesn't have the light output I was looking for a larger screen.


I was considering the Sim2 C3X as well but after reading all the reviews and comparisons between the SP-777 and C3X I couldn't justify paying double the price getting the C3X for pretty close performance.


Some may consider the SP-777 to be the bottom line 3 chip DLP and they may be right. But from what I can tell you so far based on my personal pre-calibrated experience is that it is an incredible upgrade from the H-79.


I will take a 3 chip 720 over a 1080 single chip just like many others.


Ruben


----------



## SVonhof

Interesting take on things Ruben. I have had the 720p vs. 1080p debate many times with people and most of the time, they walk away with a new understanding. Most of the people that ask me about things like this are looking at getting a new TV (a few are looking at projectors) but they all sit so far away that it's a waste of money to make the jump to 1080p when the 720p technology will give them everything they need and more. They won't see any pixels because they are far enough away and that's the biggest thing to relate to them.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/12482228
> 
> 
> Mmmm 3 chipper, 3D look, mmmmmmm



Well look who came out of the woodwork.







Will you get your damn theater finished already, It's been like 2 years now










Ruben


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/12481121
> 
> 
> I am going to go with a standard 40' radius curve. It will not be as dramatic as the previous curve, but the image will fit the screen much better.



Have you found a place where you can get a good deal on a screen?










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/12483854
> 
> 
> Well look who came out of the woodwork.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



yeah, do you believe he actually called me when I was on my death bed? And he actually assumed I would have recognized his voice too!!!










Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/12481121
> 
> 
> 
> Also as part of my upgrade path, I am moving all of my equipment out of the theater. This was one of the biggest mistakes I made in the first place. Having the equipment in the theater adds noise (xBox, HTPC), heat and distracting lights. I am putting 2 new racks right outside the theater entrance.
> 
> 
> I will be posting some pictures soon.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben,


You might consider just having some custom cabinet doors made and put them over the front of the equipment rack. Here are a couple pics of mine.


Joe


----------



## SVonhof

Joe, I think you hit your limit for consecutive posts in somebody elses thread....










BTW, Mark, I second Ruben's comments! Tell your boss he will have to wait as you have more important things to do!


----------



## jmorris644

Sure, just cause I type fast you have to diss me.


----------



## streetdaddy

How much did you have to give for the infocus?


----------



## TreyS

Nice work Ruben!! 112 pages later and my head is spinning.










I have a 22' x 20' x 9' room in my basement that is empty. You, Ronnie and Steve make it look easy to DIY.


I can only hope that mine will look as good as yours!


Can't wait to see the updated pics!!


Trey


----------



## GamerJay

Sandman, just in case you haven't seen it, Anandtech has mentioned your theater and thread here in an article on his sight. I thought that was pretty cool.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=327 


Edit: After reading more of the article it is quite the advertisement for this site and many of the threads here in the construction section.


----------



## RoChess

SandmanX, congrats on your DIY-HT-room, just like GamerJay I stumbled on your thread via AnandTech and wasted the last 2 days reading every post on your struggles and enjoyed the pictures.


And if that wasn't enough I also got sidetracked on all the other awesome rooms that people posting in here linked to direct or via their signature.


You still owe this thread finished pictures from your professional photographer friend, as you stated early on when you started this and took pictures that didn't come out right. The last pictures still show unfinished parts, such as the open columns. And sure you might have them up at the smxscreen.com forum, but as you posted almost every other picture here, might as well keep up










And maybe then we can finally see the true color as you kept saying how the cherry red was not firetruck red hehehe.


Also do you have any pictures of the aluminium frame construction on the chair stage? You dumped the older system, because it wasn't powerful enough, but I caught a post where you said you got the bigger system installed.


Did you also finish replacing the GoM on the starfield yet with the velvet?


I'm sure I am not the only one hunger for fresh pictures to this thread.


It was funny though, when I started reading this thread it showed original post dates in 2005, and you where flying through construction. I assumed I was going to end the thread at a date somewhere in 2006 with you being totally finished and me being jealous that you enjoyed such a nice setup all that time. But just like my own ghetto setup has taken forever, I see I am not alone










I guess I should put up my own thread now on my ghetto theater. I just got a cheap $50 65"x65" screen, that I can pull down infront of the TV. Ceiling mounted $750 Acer PD120 DLP and $210 Logitech Z-5500 THX speakers. The DIY HTPC of $700 does finish it all off nicely, but my total theater cost so far has only been $1950 (including Nostalgia popcorn and hotdog machine). So it might be a ghetto setup right now, but watching movies for me is now priceless.


I guess I've been lucky with the natural livingroom construction, because the sound carries resonably well, including a good deep bass, though I'm sure you are getting a deep-tissue-massage with yours at maximum setting (and another chandelier coming down).


My next plan is a $100 X10 home-automation upgrade, so that all the lights dim and the equipment powers up, but inspired by your talk, I'm going to be looking for an AT screen as well and masking with the black velvet.


Another idea I'm toying with is eventually getting a PSP (PlayStationPortable) for $169 and using the homebrew SDK to turn it into a touchscreen + tacticle remote control for the HTPC and home-automation. I'm sure somebody has done something to that extend already, so I'm hoping I can tap into their work. Did you settle yet on a tablet PC yourself? Last post I remember you had the Samsung Q1 and another one and were still playing around.


The software I use for my HTPC is MediaPortal, which is open source, but I guess you are happy with your existing setup by now, just figgured I toss that in there, cuz all your posts are still like new to me, so I remember your struggles with other solutions.


Thanks for your inspiration to me and I'm sure many others to try to achieve a similar setup. Now I just have to convince the wife, but your pictures have helped a lot. Just gotta win that PowerBall lottery now so I step out from the "Ghetto" budget range and have you build it for me


----------



## urshurak776

Amazing thread. I also heard about this from anandtech. Some day I will build one as well and now I know where to start. Thank you for such a great read.


----------



## LexiconLogan

Nice topic! Perfects theater! Congrats!


----------



## alluder

OK, I'm really late posting any sort of question like this, but I gotta ask: why do so many of these high end theatres use rectangular rooms? From what I understand about acoustics, rectangles cause standing waves that can wreak havoc with lower frequencies (the worst case is a cube where all standing waves are at the same frequencies). If you look at many recording studios and performance spaces, you'll see the side walls are not quite parallel, and the ceiling is not parallel to the floor. Break the back wall into two halves with a slight dihedral between them and you've de-parallelized all your walls. This gets rid of standing waves, which smooths out the position dependent frequency response of the room.


One other hint: if you want to hear good bass, put your head near a wall. At the boundaries of the room there are velocity minima, and so pressure maxima. Your ear is a pressure sensitive device, so you'll hear more bass at the wall. I understand the practicalities of putting your viewing chairs in the center of the room, far from the boundaries, but try listening with the back of your head against the back wall, and tell us how much bass you hear.


----------



## dbbarron

Rectangular=space efficiency.


Standing waves are dealt with otherwise (multiple sub placement at proper nodal locations and bass traps).


----------



## trpltongue

No matter the room shape (within reason), you will have nulls and peaks that require attention. Even a completely non-parallel room will have wave collision and coincidence causing nulls and peaks. A rectangular room makes it easy to pre-identify those locations so that you can design your seating areas away from those deep nulls and peaks, as well as identify where you need to add counter-measures. Try modeling a non parallel dihedral room to identify the location of peaks and nulls sometime


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alluder* /forum/post/13418819
> 
> 
> OK, I'm really late posting any sort of question like this, but I gotta ask: why do so many of these high end theatres use rectangular rooms? From what I understand about acoustics, rectangles cause standing waves that can wreak havoc with lower frequencies (the worst case is a cube where all standing waves are at the same frequencies). If you look at many recording studios and performance spaces, you'll see the side walls are not quite parallel, and the ceiling is not parallel to the floor. Break the back wall into two halves with a slight dihedral between them and you've de-parallelized all your walls. This gets rid of standing waves, which smooths out the position dependent frequency response of the room.



The answer is simple. Even though Sandman's (and others out here) room looks (and in fact is) "high end" it is actually a relatively low-budget DIY room in a residential space. Non-rectangular rooms are very hard to pull off in residential spaces because they screw up the surrounding rooms. However, if you look, you will see a few out here (I remember one big one from a few years back). As others said, the problems of rectangles are dealt with by other means - one of which is paying attention to the relative lengths of all the walls.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alluder* /forum/post/13418819
> 
> 
> One other hint: if you want to hear good bass, put your head near a wall. At the boundaries of the room there are velocity minima, and so pressure maxima. Your ear is a pressure sensitive device, so you'll hear more bass at the wall. I understand the practicalities of putting your viewing chairs in the center of the room, far from the boundaries, but try listening with the back of your head against the back wall, and tell us how much bass you hear.



I'll tell you how much: too much, and all at a very narrow frequency band. One of the things we specifically do in most of these rooms (that are well designed and can afford the space) is keep our seating OFF the back wall because of this issue. The idea isn't just to see how much bass-loading you can achieve in order to squeeze your ear drums - its to get really good, rock your socks off sound in as wide an area of the room as possible. If we tuned our rooms to sound good in the corners or on the back wall, they would sound completely anemic in the majority of the space.


And this is coming from a bit of a bass junkie - look at my sub







.


----------



## newerakb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/12482738
> 
> 
> Also, I am not willing to drop $40k on a 1080 3 chip so it can be worth half price next year.



I know I'm a few months late on this reply, but dang, I wish _my_ reason for not buying a 40k projector had to do with depreciation...


----------



## Stealthlude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/8777029
> 
> 
> A little update,
> 
> 
> Today I got my Tabletkiosk eo UMPC i7209 to use with my automated home and theater. I have the Samsumg Q1 as well, but I like the fact that the eo has a charging dock station and a built in camera.
> 
> 
> Here are some flix showing the Q1 and the eo...



I know its a little late here in this thread... but what is the exact use for one of these? Control the media center?


Only thing I can think of is using Remote Desktop unless there is an application I dont know about.


Thanks.


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stealthlude* /forum/post/13604269
> 
> 
> I know its a little take here in this thread... but what is the exact use for one of these? Control the media center?
> 
> 
> Only thing I can think of is using Remote Desktop unless there is an application I dont know about.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I think Ruben is using Cinemar.


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/13604772
> 
> 
> I think Ruben is using Cinemar.
> 
> 
> Joe



I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.


But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/13604891
> 
> 
> I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.
> 
> 
> But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:



That is awesome. What do you use for a tactile interface?


Joe


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/13605064
> 
> 
> That is awesome. What do you use for a tactile interface?
> 
> 
> Joe



An MX-850. I am pretty much a hard-button guy when it comes to in-movie control (volume, transport, etc.). I use the touch panel to power up/down and find what I'm going to watch and then the 850 from there. The panel is also good for things like setting aspect ratio on my scaler because it uses RS232 for direct control.


(sorry for the hijack, Ruben)


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/13604891
> 
> 
> I know he used to. I'm not positive if he still does.
> 
> 
> But I use mine extensively. I can control pretty much everything from the tablet:



So are you actually using 'Mainlobby' to control your HTPC?


I am trying to figure out how to do what I need, I have a licensed copy of mainlobby that I never got areound to installing, now by HTPC runs Vista and I don't even know it will work.


Any tips and information how your set-up runs would be appreciated.


BTW I have a collection of Viewsonic Airpanels that I had planned to use to do the control aspect. I also have UMPC (Asus R2Hv that could be used)...



I checked out yout theatre, great job BTW!


Al


----------



## ebr

I don't want to hijack Ruben's thread any further. Check out the last few pages of my thread where I talk a bit about my ML setup and ask any detailed questions there. Thanks.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Will do, thanks!


----------



## SmX

Holy crap, I can't believe this thread has over 1 million views!

This must be an AVS record.










Here are the touch panels I am using with Cinemar. I absolutely love them over the Q1 and EO. They use flash drives (not hard drives) so the battery lasts longer, they don't get hot like the Q1 and EO, No annoying fan noise, awesome rechargeable docking station, very sleek looking. Plus the screen size works perfect for me. I never liked the size of the Q1 and EO.


They run a little slow (1ghz Celeron) if you try to use them as a client but I use them as remote desktops and they fly. I keep my client software on a dedicated server in my rack for speed and use these for convenience.


Cinemar is doing big things and I can't believe how much people sleep on them. You can pretty much control your whole life from a touch-screen with Cinemar.


I haven't had much time to get back into the automation side but I am squeezing in time here and there.






























Ruben


----------



## mastiff34

Ruben,

What are those? Can you provide a model and maybe a link to the manf. website? They look very nice!


-Matt


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/13716739
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> What are those? Can you provide a model and maybe a link to the manf. website? They look very nice!
> 
> 
> -Matt



Looks to be this site:

http://www.cinemaronline.com/products.html


----------



## mastiff34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iteki* /forum/post/13717778
> 
> 
> Looks to be this site:
> 
> http://www.cinemaronline.com/products.html



Yes, thats the software, i am want to know where he got the sweet LCD touch screens using cf cards.


----------



## SmX

I have no idea who makes the panels, I got them through a local guy that owns a home automation company. They are 100% OEM and there is no manufacture name on them. This company orders 100 at time for their business and then they screen print their company logo on them. I happened to get lucky and get them without any logos on them.


All I do know is these are the very same panels Cresteon and Elan use which is one of the reasons why I jumped on them.


These beauties didn't come cheap, they cost me close to $2k per panel. I searched the net high and low to try to find the OEM manufacturer of these with no luck. Hopefully someone knows here so I can get some more at a better price.


Ruben


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13718501
> 
> 
> I have no idea who makes the panels, I got them through a local guy that owns a home automation company. They are 100% OEM and there is no manufacture name on them. This company orders 100 at time for their business and then they screen print their company logo on them. I happened to get lucky and get them without any logos on them.
> 
> 
> All I do know is these are the very same panels Cresteon and Elan use which is one of the reasons why I jumped on them.
> 
> 
> These beauties didn't come cheap, they cost me close to $2k per panel. I searched the net high and low to try to find the OEM manufacturer of these with no luck. Hopefully someone knows here so I can get some more at a better price.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I might be able to help...my company (a hotel) ordered 4 of these through our POS Vendor (point of sale). They are used as mobile POS stations for bars, cash sales, etc.


I'll see what I can find out about the manufacturer.


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147

Except for the port on the face in the lower left corner, it looks a lot like an Escient EWP-2000.


----------



## mcascio

Hi Folks,


Those tablets are made by WebDT - looks like model WebDT 360.


----------



## mastiff34

I think mcascio has it, definately looks like the WebDT 360.


----------



## Epyx

Any chance of a small 2 or 3 link index at the front for the latest theater pics (Seating/screen etc)...ive been searching through the 120+ pages and haven't struck gold yet lol.


Thanks!


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/13719118
> 
> 
> I think mcascio has it, definately looks like the WebDT 360.



Contacted the company directly...they don't normally sell direct, only through resellers. But they are willing to make exceptions if people want to buy in quantity. I told him I'd post here and see if there was any interest in doing a 'group' buy. I myself am interested...anyone else PM me and we'll see how many total. I think Sandman said that he paid $2k through a reseller, so I'd hope to see a direct price much lower than that.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Epyx* /forum/post/13719368
> 
> 
> Any chance of a small 2 or 3 link index at the front for the latest theater pics (Seating/screen etc)...ive been searching through the 120+ pages and haven't struck gold yet lol.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Here are the last pictures I took...

* PAGE 87 *


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iteki* /forum/post/13719530
> 
> 
> Contacted the company directly...they don't normally sell direct, only through resellers. But they are willing to make exceptions if people want to buy in quantity. I told him I'd post here and see if there was any interest in doing a 'group' buy. I myself am interested...anyone else PM me and we'll see how many total. I think Sandman said that he paid $2k through a reseller, so I'd hope to see a direct price much lower than that.



Awesome, let us know. They are real nice panels but keep in mind, they are slow. The Q1 is much faster than these. They only work well when you use them like how Crestron and Elan uses them, as remotes.


Ruben


----------



## mastiff34

I'm interested, let me know.


----------



## SmX

Here is the Elan version http://www.elanhomesystems.com/produ...ia/via2_84.asp 


Here is the modified Crestron version
Crestron 


Ruben


----------



## Iteki




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13719702
> 
> 
> Awesome, let us know. They are real nice panels but keep in mind, they are slow. The Q1 is much faster than these. They only work well when you use them like how Crestron and Elan uses them, as remotes.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Will do. Interested parties please PM me. Thanks!


----------



## Dseal

Sandman, Did you build or buy those star panels? I wanted to buy them but the price is too much for me right now. If I could build them that would be great. I just don't know where to start when it comes time. You can check my thread as I am still on the framing stage but suggestions would help.


Thanks


----------



## Sands_at_Pier147

How about this one, for $1828:

http://www.buildyourumpc.com/NovaMob.../sunpadxpe.htm


----------



## Epyx

Thanks for the link!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dseal* /forum/post/13719863
> 
> 
> Sandman, Did you build or buy those star panels? I wanted to buy them but the price is too much for me right now. If I could build them that would be great. I just don't know where to start when it comes time. You can check my thread as I am still on the framing stage but suggestions would help.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I built them and I detailed the build of them in this thread. On what page? ...Now that's another story.










I just searched and found it it's on pages 7 & 8.
* STAR CEILING BUILD 
*

Ruben


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow Ruben I this thread keep going, and going..


Love the new remote.


----------



## shodoug

Over a million views...


Wow!


Doug


----------



## Don_Kellogg

You know if this thread does come to a stop, I'll have to rethink my daily routine.


Ruben;


I'm very interested in DVD Lobby, I've reviewed the stuff on their site. But I was wondering if you could do a Visio or diagram to show how you have the HTPC, CD Changers, RAIDS and Tablet all hooked together.


1. Are you using RDC into the HTPC via the Tablet?

2. Does the tablet actually run windows XP

3. Or you doing a thin client like setup.

4. Do you have the Cinema Client and Server on the same machine

5. How about your drive arrays, are they stand alone NAS, or Server attached storage?


----------



## AccessHA

Hi Don,


I'm not sure about Ruben's setup but the great thing about ML and DVDLobby is you can really do any of the above. I'm sure Ruben will chime in shortly.


In the past I used AirPanels to RDC into a client/server running ML and this worked fairly well. Wasn't the fastest solution but definitely usable and cost effective. I suspect Ruben is running either Windows XP or XPe on his touch panels and then using RDC to access MainLobby on another client (HTPC).


As for servers, I use both NAS and server attached (RAID5). Both work extremely well.


The latest release of DVDLobby (3.75) is extremely flexible, not only from a design/layout perspective but functionality as well. As with Ruben, I'm a big fan of Cinemar's products. They've done an exceptional job growing their entire suite of products and supporting their customers.


Have you DL'ed the trial version yet?


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I don't want to derail this thread too much. But I'm growing sick of my Pronto TSU7500, it does a very nice job, but I want more. I echo Ruben's statements that Kaleidescape although an attractive system costs way too much. I'd could afford the package if I so wished but, I just don't think it's fiscally responsible to do so. There are better places to focus my money. For quite sometime I've had my eye on DVD Lobby.


Having said the above, I'd like to setup a system like Ruben's. I'm looking for a tablet solution that can also do remote functions, with RS-232 feedback (Volume Level, ETC.) Not show stopper but I would really like that, if it can be done.


Ruben's past tutorials have help many, so I was hoping maybe he could chime in on the process. I'm getting ready to do a full rework of my controls.


----------



## ifeliciano

Don et al, maybe start a thread over at the Home Automation area that deals with all Cinemar products and setups.


Im also looking into MainLobby and DVDLobby.


----------



## GPowers

I'm using the thin client also with MainLobby. In my view it is too slow. Plus XP Pro (were ML is running) only allows ONE logon at a time. Unless you hack it. It would be cheaper to by a hand held PC running XP vs. running windows server to get more then one login at a time. Faster too.


The other option is your iPod Touch or iPhone using the built-in web browser.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Aiwa;


Yeah I will good idea.


Wish I could find one of those new panel Ruben snagged. I've played with the Samsung Q1, I like the look of the new panel better. I found a few places with things close to it.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Okay it's not my best work but I figured I'd just do a quick Visio layout. I'll refine it later.










*Questions still:*

Are you using the tablet to control AV equipment (IR,RF)
Is it better to do RDC to terminal services on the ML Server
What player are us using to play DVD's?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13740640
> 
> 
> Aiwa;
> 
> 
> Yeah I will good idea.
> 
> 
> Wish I could find one of those new panel Ruben snagged. I've played with the Samsung Q1, I like the look of the new panel better. I found a few places with things close to it.



When you do share the link here. I will chime in too.


joe


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13740707
> 
> 
> *Questions still:*
> 
> Are you using the tablet to control AV equipment (IR,RF)
> Is it better to do RDC to terminal services on the ML Server
> What player are us using to play DVD's?



Hi Don,


I have a whole home server I built which is fast. I used a Core 2 Quad Extreme QX6850 processor and Gigabyte GA-EX38-DQ6 motherboard that has 1600 MHz Front Side Bus support and 8 gigs of Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 1066 memory. I have my LG HD/Bluray combo-drive in this for ripping HD/SD. It also has an internal 80 gig HD running Windows XP pro (at the moment). This is all in a 4 space rack mount enclosure.


This server contains my MainLobby Server and Main Lobby client software. It controls my whole home lighting (Insteon Switches) using a PLM plugin from Cinemar in Main Lobby server. It also controls all my IR units (Theater equipment) through USB-URIT and a Xantech IR distributor/amplifier. This allows me to control up to 16 IR units from Main Lobby. It is basically the brain to everything you want to do.


Then I have an HTPC I built, another Core2 processor not as fast as the server but it is used as a head player in the theater. It contains an nVidia Geeforce 8800GTX video card and optical audio output. It is in a identical rack mount case as the server. On this HTPC I have PowerDVD Ultra which I use to play all my HD/BR/SD movies. This HTPC is connected to my Lumagen HDQ scaler and then from the scaler to the PJ via DVI. The optical audio output of my HTPC is connected to my Audio Processor (Outlaw 990).


For my movie storage, I have a 16 terabyte raid 5 which is really 14 terabytes. This is hooked up to the server via SCSI 360. This is a networked raid so I can access and playback movies/music from any room in the house.


The touch panel runs Windows XP embedded. I only use this to remote desktop into my server which is running Main Lobby client. This runs much faster than using a stand alone Q1 or EO with ML client on them and does not heat up, have fan noise or drain battery life like those units.


I had Windows server installed in my server before that allowed multiple clients and I will be putting that back on again soon. I just been so busy that I haven't found much time to get back into this.


Hopefully this helps a little. There is so much more to the set up and I left allot out.


Ruben


----------



## AccessHA

Don, the diagram you have should work just fine.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Thank you Ruben that is spot on for what I thought. I do have one stumbling block in my understanding still, sorry. The HTPC Head Unit does that also run the Client software, like the server. I get the Power DVD Ultra Part, just not sure if the client also runs on that. What would I need on each head unit to play. I'm planing on doing a full house as well.


So what rack cases are you using, I don't think the rack raids you have are still sold by that company. Looked for them a while ago, probably going with a SATA raid.


----------



## SmX

Hi Don,


The HTPC doesn't run the Main Lobby client.

It does run a PowerDVD client service provided by Cinemar. It basically listens out for commands coming from ML Server and talks to PDVD.


For rack cases I am using some crappy temporary antec rack mount cases. I will post a link to them when I get home.


Ruben


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I now I get it, plugins control players.


Thanks I was going to use the same HTPC case that you have on your site. But it looks like it's too wide for a standard 19" rack. As for the hot swappable rack array, I'll have to keep looking. Seems even Apple stopped sell theirs, sure there are other options..


This looks to be a good option so far 24 drives

http://www.acmemicro.com/estore/merc...pid=524&step=4


----------



## soonerfann

Ruben,


I looked through the entire thread and could not figure out how you have mounted the front Klipsch speakers behind the screen. Could you comment on this and how you treated the screenwall as I am about to begin this process with the very same speakers. Also, what kind of power do you think these speakers need?


Thanks,


John


----------



## Stealthlude




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13741941
> 
> 
> I now I get it, plugins control players.
> 
> 
> Thanks I was going to use the same HTPC case that you have on your site. But it looks like it's too wide for a standard 19" rack. As for the hot swappable rack array, I'll have to keep looking. Seems even Apple stopped sell theirs, sure there are other options..
> 
> 
> This looks to be a good option so far 24 drives
> 
> http://www.acmemicro.com/estore/merc...pid=524&step=4



That supermicro is a really nice case... I’ve built a server using that case before and open-e software. Best way to do this and to avoid having to use (expensive) hardware SCSI cards in both the storage server and the main server is to use iSCSI.


You can also use this as a NAS function system but iSCSI is the same thing as a SCSI 320 link but uses SCSI commands over an IP Network. SCSI 320 has its advantages but its more at an enterprise level. (if you want the Network Your Storage With IP by Stephanie Balaouras white paper explaining this) PM me and ill send it to you.


I am using open-e with an HP ProCurve managed switch. I have a 2 Gigabit Teamed NICs using jumbo frames beteween the Server and the Storage Server.


----------



## Dseal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13727792
> 
> 
> I built them and I detailed the build of them in this thread. On what page? ...Now that's another story.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just searched and found it it's on pages 7 & 8.
> * STAR CEILING BUILD
> *
> 
> Ruben



Thanks Ruben. Thats exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *soonerfann* /forum/post/13743665
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I looked through the entire thread and could not figure out how you have mounted the front Klipsch speakers behind the screen. Could you comment on this and how you treated the screenwall as I am about to begin this process with the very same speakers. Also, what kind of power do you think these speakers need?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> John



I used OmniMount 60.0 Series wall-mounts to mount the Klipsch KL-650s. The screen wall is treated with a 5.5" thick cotton and covered with a black cotton muslin fabric.


Ruben


----------



## SmX

The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...












Ruben


----------



## SmX

Or if you want to get a little more serious you can do one of these 40 bay monsters



















However, all this is going to be obsolete once Seagate releases their 300 Terabyte Hard Drive 


Ruben


----------



## jimfitz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13751552
> 
> 
> The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



I like it! Ripping BluRay movies???? I am very interested. I want to move my collection to storage but don't know of any programs that will help me do this.


Any suggestions.


----------



## mastiff34

Anydvd will do what your looking for.


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13751552
> 
> 
> The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben




Pretty impressive. Where does one start looking up information to setup these monsters ? I'm interested but don't know where to start.


----------



## mastiff34

I'd love to hear that one as well, I can build gaming rigs and stuff no problem, but I have no idea how you would get a controller to take that many hd's in.... A guide would be awesome =)


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/13740971
> 
> 
> When you do share the link here. I will chime in too.
> 
> 
> joe




Yeah, give us a link when you get your Cinemar question out there. I've just finished re-doing my DVDLobby setup to take advantage of 3.75 so I'll chime in as well.


----------



## Epyx

You need a beefy Raid 6 controller. Something like:

http://www.acnc.com/02_01_jetstor_sata_416s.html 


NOTE: Warning...expect sticker shock...not for the feint of heart


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Epyx* /forum/post/13757211
> 
> 
> You need a beefy Raid 6 controller. Something like:
> 
> http://www.acnc.com/02_01_jetstor_sata_416s.html
> 
> 
> NOTE: Warning...expect sticker shock...not for the feint of heart



Nah, you don't need that, you can use $500 16 port RocketRAID cards.


Ruben


----------



## Epyx

Ah nice. I will keep those in mind.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13751552
> 
> 
> The next raid I build is going to have the server built in using e-Sata-2 16 channel and 8 channel raid cards and making it all internal. It will house 24 one terabyte SATA-2 hard drives. This way makes the most sense (money-wise and speed-wise) The case looks something like this but will have full height LG BR/HD combo drive in front for direct ripping...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben;


Who makes this case I have not seen this one before. The Supermicro case I've been looking at is very similar. I have seen the forty drive model you mention. Have you found a full height optical drive case with 24 bays yet, if so would you share the manufacture or a source to get it.


----------



## mastiff34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/13757536
> 
> 
> Nah, you don't need that, you can use $500 16 port RocketRAID cards.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ahhh, so u just buy a raid card with enough ports, I think that was the only piece I was missing, thanks guys!


Tho, I think raid 5 would scare me with that much storage, 2 drives go down and its all dead... =(


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/13760404
> 
> 
> Ruben;
> 
> 
> Who makes this case I have not seen this one before. The Supermicro case I've been looking at is very similar. I have seen the forty drive model you mention. Have you found a full height optical drive case with 24 bays yet, if so would you share the manufacture or a source to get it.




Don,


I think that's a *Chenbro*. Geez from the prices i looks like I have a bunch of overtime to do


----------



## jmorris644

Check out circotech.com


That is where I bought my 6 drive eSata rack mount enclosure. THeir prices are very attractive.


Joe


----------



## ifeliciano

I like this one:











It has bays for optical drives. and enough HD bays for me.

@ Circotech 


This is a whole system case. For the PC and the RAID array all-in-one.


----------



## mastiff34

Nice find! 8 bays == 8tb of storage, so 7 tb of raid 5 =) give or take


----------



## RoChess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mastiff34* /forum/post/13760561
> 
> 
> Ahhh, so u just buy a raid card with enough ports, I think that was the only piece I was missing, thanks guys!
> 
> 
> Tho, I think raid 5 would scare me with that much storage, 2 drives go down and its all dead... =(



That's when you use RAID-6, which can sustain 2 drives failing at the same time without loosing any data. And the larger the RAID array becomes, the more hotswap spares you should keep around. That way when a drive fails, you instantly have a spare to hotswap the faulty one with, and then you can take your time to order a new one.


Dedicated XOR engine cards such as the "Promise SuperTrak EX16350 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card" go for about $700, and can handle 16 drives without a problem (also has open source Linux driver).


----------



## ifeliciano












@ Circotech 



Questions:


This unit is not going to run on Windows MCE ? Is it ?


My thinking (forgive my dumbness) Is that this unit will enclose a motherboard ,

SATA drives, and will run some type of server OS and my HTPC with MCE will be a client.


Am I even close to how this is supposed to work ?


----------



## jmorris644

I run it with XP MCE. There is really no compelling reason to run one of the server operating systems.


Joe


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RoChess* /forum/post/13768461
> 
> 
> That's when you use RAID-6, which can sustain 2 drives failing at the same time without loosing any data. And the larger the RAID array becomes, the more hotswap spares you should keep around. That way when a drive fails, you instantly have a spare to hotswap the faulty one with, and then you can take your time to order a new one.
> 
> 
> Dedicated XOR engine cards such as the "Promise SuperTrak EX16350 PCI-Express x8 SATA II Controller Card" go for about $700, and can handle 16 drives without a problem (also has open source Linux driver).



You can always run Raid 10










Joe


----------



## RoChess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ifeliciano* /forum/post/13771803
> 
> 
> Questions:
> 
> 
> This unit is not going to run on Windows MCE ? Is it ?
> 
> 
> My thinking (forgive my dumbness) Is that this unit will enclose a motherboard ,
> 
> SATA drives, and will run some type of server OS and my HTPC with MCE will be a client.
> 
> 
> Am I even close to how this is supposed to work ?



1kB = 1000 bytes (format that HDD manufactors use)

1KiB = 1024 bytes (technical correct format, which is what Windows uses inside Explorer, but calls it KB/MB/GB/TB instead of KiB/MiB/GiB/TiB)


Even FAT32 can deal with 8TB drives theoretically on Windows XP (all versions, including Home), and with NTFS it is architectual possible to do 16EB volumes (16 EB = 16000 PB = 16000000 GB). It is technically 16EiB - 64KiB, but that's a different story.


However there are also OS and partition limits, so the actual limit with 64KiB clusters is 256TB (256TiB - 64KiB), and for 4KiB clusters (the default when you format with NTFS and not change the values) it is 16TB (16TiB - 4KiB).


Also NAS setups are more and more the preference for HTPC setups, even for consumers. So you setup the storage in a nice closet/attic and via the network serve the data over. With 1GbE you can even handle High Definition streaming easy to multiple locations. Of course when you already have a server-client setup for HTPC going, and the server case is big enough, then having a seperate NAS is simply extra money you didn't needed to spend.


But then again nothing beats showing up with a nice portable NAS with 8TB of data to a friends HTPC setup


----------



## RoChess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jmorris644* /forum/post/13772100
> 
> 
> You can always run Raid 10
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe



Ok, say you got 6x 1TB drives, the following shows how much volume space you are left with:


RAID-0 = 6TB -- Pros: superfast / Cons: no backup, if one drive dies, you loose it all

RAID-01 = 3TB -- Pros: fast / Cons: 50% loss in storage, reasonable backup, but if 1 drive fails on both the original 3TB volume and 3TB backup volume you will be in pain

RAID-10 = 3TB -- Pros: fast / Cons: 50% loss in storage, little more redundancy when RAID-01, but not the kind of odds I like (hotspares fix some of those worries, but then you add more cost for the HDDs not even used)

RAID-5 = 5TB -- Pros: only 1TB is lost for redundancy / Cons: if more then 1 drive fails you loose it all + needs dedicated XOR engine to be fast

RAID-6 = 4TB -- Pros: 2 drives can fail at the same time without loosing anything / Cons: needs dedicated XOR engine to be fast


RAID-30 and RAID-50 are best choices if you want both speed and redundancy, however the key factor becomes cost.


A hardware XOR engine controller card easaly costs $400, and with a 1TB drive costing less then $200, then for volumes smaller then 3TB going with RAID-10 might be cheaper, especially when the onboard mainboard controller has enough connections (most new ones have 8x SATA-II on them).


I myself prefer off-line storage, and I use a QuickSwap bay to simply hotswap HDDs as if they were DVDs. Since the drives therefore don't run all the time when the HTPC is on, I not only save energy, but the drives last longer (assuming I don't drop one







). I made myself a storage case out of an old camcorder case and put in the anti-static foam padding that HDD manufactors use when they ship 20 drives in a box.


My HTPC still has 2x500GB in RAID-0 for recording HDTV shows, but any shows I want to keep are transferred to the off-line drives. Now tripping over the rug holding one of the off-line drives, made me realize I do want more redundant storage, without giving up the off-line benefits. So I'm switching over to an off-line QuickSwap RAID-5 solution, where I'll have to get two more QuickSwap bays ($30 each) to create a 3-bay QuickSwap solution. By hotswapping three drives at the same time, I'll only have two drives for storage, but a lot more peace of mind. The problem is cost, since I won't be able to just buy 1 drive, but will have to get 3 at a time.


----------



## Al Sherwood

Ruben, I am thinking of following your lead and installing ML3 Server etc.


I saw you mention that you were also using ML to control PowerDVD, I can't seem to find the plugin... is it still supported/available?


thanks, Al


----------



## mcascio

Hi Al,


Just responded to your email as well.


The PowerDVD plugin has been in beta but it will be available soon through our shopping cart. For now, you can download the 30 Day Trial from MLServer's Installation Assistant. From MLServer select HELP > Additional Software Downloads. You'll find the PowerDVD plugin under section 4 - Drivers (8a/8b).


----------



## ATLPilot

Well done Reuben. You've inspired yet another theater build.


----------



## adammb

Sandman X,


Can you give me a price breakdown of your system for storing movies including Blurays. I currently have a Control4 system that has 2 Sony 400 disc changers but I have no option for anyof my HD movies. Can you please let me know what I would need to achieve the storage of my HD content and maybe even my DVDs.


----------



## RoChess




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adammb* /forum/post/13830352
> 
> 
> Sandman X,
> 
> 
> Can you give me a price breakdown of your system for storing movies including Blurays. I currently have a Control4 system that has 2 Sony 400 disc changers but I have no option for anyof my HD movies. Can you please let me know what I would need to achieve the storage of my HD content and maybe even my DVDs.




Going for a 16TB RAID-6 volume, which leaves you with 12.73TiB effective space (TiB = 1024GiB what OS uses, TB = 1000GB what HDD manufactors use for marketing reasons) will run you almost $4k for the harddisks and controller card alone and is not something most of us can spare.


A more cost effective way would be a Thecus N5200BR Pro NAS box with room for 5 drives. Those are around $750 and then you can get 5x Samsung HD103UJ 1TB drives for $185 each (or Western Digital RAID optimized WD1000FYPS for $240), total of 5TB RAID-5 volume (3.64TiB effective) is then $1675. The Thecus N3200 with room for 3 drives costs around $340, so total for a 3TB RAID-5 volume (1.82TiB effecitive) is then $895. Of course most mainboards have 4+ SATA ports onboard, so you can also just go with that if you have the room in your case for all the HDDs, but a dedicated NAS box is much cheaper to operate 24/7.


You can then just add a Blu-Ray drive to your existing computer for about $200, and use Slysoft AnyDVD HD backup software for $79 to make copies for yourself. The legality of using that software is for you to decide, as not every country in the world has laws allowing such actions to be taken.


A DVD ISO takes about 4.35GiB or 8.4GiB space, but by stripping out the additional language tracks you don't care for, or the trailers/bonus features you can slim it down a little. There is also the option to transcode the MPEG-2 DVD format into H.264/AVC MPEG-4 format, which can usually achieve a compression ratio of 2-3x smaller without sacrificing much detail, but that's a personal choice. The Blu-Ray movies take up to 46.6GiB of space, and can also be transcode into a smaller size.


The important thing is to first find out what format your media player supports and go from there. Or purchase a new media player, such as the TviX HD M-7000A, which can playback Blu-Ray EVO/TS backups, DVD ISO backups and even a wide variety of other formats such as AVI/MKV/MPG/MOV/VOB/etc.


----------



## Mr.Hander

Complete – Finally


After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project





















). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….


I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.


Attachment 111107 

Attachment 111108 

Attachment 111109 


Thanks Again,

Mark

Minneapolis, MN


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Hander* /forum/post/13929278
> 
> 
> Complete – Finally
> 
> 
> After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….
> 
> 
> I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.
> 
> 
> Attachment 111107
> 
> Attachment 111108
> 
> Attachment 111109
> 
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Minneapolis, MN



Ok, I need to touch it to see if its real. When can I come over?


Joe


----------



## mastiff34




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Hander* /forum/post/13929278
> 
> 
> Complete - Finally
> 
> 
> After countless hours researching, product hunting' and constructing(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER.
> 
> 
> I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn't for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater's progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.
> 
> 
> Attachment 111107
> 
> Attachment 111108
> 
> Attachment 111109
> 
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Minneapolis, MN



Wow, very nice, you should post in your own thread to get proper credit. Any build pictures?


Excellent work!


----------



## ebr

Those are some great renders.


Is the stage a sub-woofer...?


----------



## jmorris644




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/13930285
> 
> 
> Those are some great renders.
> 
> 
> Is the stage a sub-woofer...?



That was going to be my guess.


Joe


----------



## Cerulaen

Ruben,


I'm curious if you are still using the Insteon lighting controls and how they are working out for you? Whenever a question like this is asked on AVS or Cocoontech it seems to devolve into a shouting match between the haters and lovers.


So given that you seem to be very meticulous about the products you choose, I was hoping to get your feedback.


Thank you.


----------



## BizarroTerl

Rubin,

Have you started the aquarium project?


----------



## Mr.Hander

The stage has two flush-mounted 10" drivers in it (with room for two more for a total of 4-10's). And for sub bass I'm using 2 JL Audio 13w7's that I have tucked away in the corner in a custom built ported box.


Hope that answers your question...


As for build pics, I don't have a whole-lot to post.


This one was taken after the framing and pre-wiring was done, and I just finished putting up the ump-teen bags of insulation.

Attachment 111132 



This one is of the room post drywall with the soffits mostly completed, along with the start of what would be my columns.

Attachment 111133 



And this one is with the columns, soffits, star-ceiling, and stage/riser complete.

Attachment 111134 





Mark

Minneapolis, MN


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Hander* /forum/post/13929278
> 
> 
> Complete - Finally
> 
> 
> After countless hours researching, product hunting' and constructing(not to mention the hours many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER.
> 
> 
> I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn't for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater's progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.
> 
> 
> Attachment 111107
> 
> Attachment 111108
> 
> Attachment 111109
> 
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Minneapolis, MN




Nice, but lacks originality...


----------



## danroliver

SandmanX,


At the expense of making this thread even longer, I must commend you for a truly fabulous job. Well done!


I have been a lurker on AVS for over four years now and I think my last post must have been more than 3 years ago. I say this, so that you know that for every one that posts a thank you, probably 20 or more remain silent and depend on the few, like myself, to do the thanking for them. This thread, and your contribution, deserves some praise.


Thank you for sharing with us all of the details of your construction including all of the detailed photographs and for your patient explainations of the entire process. You are an inspiration.


Keep up the good work. Don't ever get discouraged. We love you!










--Dan


----------



## Gerry S

Hey Ruben:


I noticed you're discussion forum at smxscreen.com has been down for awhile. Any plans to bring it back online?


-Gerry


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Hander* /forum/post/13929278
> 
> 
> Complete – Finally
> 
> 
> After countless hours researching, ‘product hunting’ and constructing…(not to mention the many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER….
> 
> 
> I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn’t for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater’s progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.
> 
> 
> Attachment 111107
> 
> Attachment 111108
> 
> Attachment 111109
> 
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Minneapolis, MN



OMG, that's insane! I swear I thought you just photoshopped the chairs and screen in my room. I am speechless, you did some great reproduction work. You should manufacture replica cars, you will make a killing! I guess the step by step details of my build process were easy to follow!










Great Job.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gerry S* /forum/post/14057202
> 
> 
> Hey Ruben:
> 
> 
> I noticed you're discussion forum at smxscreen.com has been down for awhile. Any plans to bring it back online?
> 
> 
> -Gerry



Hi Gerry,


It's still there but is a ghost-town because there is no links to it on the main page.
http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/ 


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danroliver* /forum/post/14053292
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> 
> At the expense of making this thread even longer, I must commend you for a truly fabulous job. Well done!
> 
> 
> I have been a lurker on AVS for over four years now and I think my last post must have been more than 3 years ago. I say this, so that you know that for every one that posts a thank you, probably 20 or more remain silent and depend on the few, like myself, to do the thanking for them. This thread, and your contribution, deserves some praise.
> 
> 
> Thank you for sharing with us all of the details of your construction including all of the detailed photographs and for your patient explainations of the entire process. You are an inspiration.
> 
> 
> Keep up the good work. Don't ever get discouraged. We love you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Dan



Thanks for The Kudos Dan. It was a fun time building the room. I'm happy this thread has inspired many people here to build their own. There was a few here that inspired me to build mine such as Art Sonneborn's theater. I used to email Art every week asking him questions about his room and just built off his layout and created my own.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cerulaen* /forum/post/13931081
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> I'm curious if you are still using the Insteon lighting controls and how they are working out for you? Whenever a question like this is asked on AVS or Cocoontech it seems to devolve into a shouting match between the haters and lovers.
> 
> 
> So given that you seem to be very meticulous about the products you choose, I was hoping to get your feedback.
> 
> 
> Thank you.



The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BizarroTerl* /forum/post/13932257
> 
> 
> Rubin,
> 
> Have you started the aquarium project?



Not yet, since the starting of SmX, my time has been fully consumed.

It is still coming though!


Ruben


----------



## SmX

I just want to add, I can't believe how fast time passes. This build is almost 3 years old and I can still clearly remember the day I started this thread. There wasn't a whole lot of activity in this Dedicated Theater Build Forum 3 years ago so I remember the responses were coming in slow. I guess allot of people didn't know what was going to come out of it based on my crude drawing I posted







.


I still enjoy the theater till this day and use it whenever I can. I probably use it 2 - 3 times a month due to my busy schedule.


It is an experience that every man/woman should get to experience once in their lifetime. The picture quality and sound is so much better than the out of focus movie theaters around here. Mostly I'm just sitting in my theater enjoying the incredible picture quality and sound.


Save your bucks and do it right and you will enjoy it for life.


Ruben


----------



## ntode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/14057392
> 
> 
> I still enjoy the theater till this day and use it whenever I can. I probably use it 2 - 3 times a month due to my busy schedule.




Finally, I've made it to the end of the thread. I would have paid for someone to simply give me a summary. Someone should summarize this thread and sell it. I'd be the first in line to buy just to have it for reference.


I think the statement you make above is sad. It sounds like success has cut into your free time quite a bit. Earlier in the thread you said that you use the theater every day. BTW, do you still have your day job, or has SMX become your day job too?


Thank you for taking the time to post so many details. It's been amazing watching you make choices, changing those decisions, buying stuff, replacing stuff, having stuff break then fixing it or replacig it. It's rare we get this level of insight into a theater lifecycle.


Lastly, if I had to choose the one thing about this thread to thank you for... It's the mistakes, and your willingness to discuss them and let us in on your decision processes around them.


Thanks again. I hope that some day someone takes the time to index this thread because I hate the thought of trying to go back through it again


----------



## danroliver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ntode* /forum/post/14065023
> 
> 
> Finally, I've made it to the end of the thread. I would have paid for someone to simply give me a summary. Someone should summarize this thread and sell it. I'd be the first in line to buy just to have it for reference.



I second that.


Ruben, I think if you talk to some publishers and show them the number of views this thread has, you can get an advance on collecting and expanding upon your constuction process into a sure-to-be-bestselling book. It doesn't hurt either that it is featured in some prominant HT magazines










Give it some thought. Just don't remove your posts from here; cheap-asses should be able to spend a few weeks combing through it if they so choose.











Just edit the first post to link to your book on Amazon. I'll be looking for it.










"Home Theater Construction for Dummies" anyone?


-Dan


----------



## danroliver




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/14057286
> 
> 
> The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Damn. Thanks for reporting back. Based on your "endorsement" earlier in this thread when you bought so many of them, and knowing how meticulous you are and how much consideration you put into your selections, I had settled on getting Insteon. Looks like I need to do more research, now.










--Dan


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Ruben did condense the thread in the (defunct) forum on his website. You need to register to read it though.

http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/


----------



## ntode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/14067072
> 
> 
> Ruben did condense the thread in the (defunct) forum on his website. You need to register to read it though.
> 
> http://www.smxscreen.com/forum/




Registration is closed. Anyone want to provide their credentials so we can all take a look?


----------



## Dan Hitchman

Ruben,


Whew! There're a lot of posts to go through! Are you still happy with your THX Ultra 2 speakers and Crown XTI-1000 amps?


I've seen some pretty good close out deals on the Crowns and was wondering if they're still recommended for the Klipsch system. I can get five of them for under $2,000 and use a Y-splitter for the second pair of side surrounds.


Thanks! Was thinking of using 3 of the KL-650-THX's up front and 6 of the KL-525-THX's for the surrounds (one pair for each row of seats) plus their two subs. I do not like dipole speakers, especially with 8 channel discrete mixes and with two rows of seating... why not have it like a commercial theater with a larger wall of sound?


Your thoughts?


Your theater is one of my favorites! Simply superb!


Dan


----------



## Soundood

I can comment on that since I sold Rubin his Klipsch system, his Danley sub and recommended the Crowns to him. They are excellent amps. Quiet, powerful, affordable and reliable. That being said, things do progress and I now prefer the Face Audio amps with the Klipsch...a bit smoother and more detailed. I still sell and recommend the Crown, but I recommend the Face Audio more.


On the Klipsch...the KS-525 surrounds are NOT dipoles. They are actually WDST surrounds, wide dispersion monopoles. The output from the two horns merges. The problem you can run into with using KL-525s is that their dispersion is limited. This is fine if you have enough distance between the speaker and the seats...but if your seats are close to the side (or back) walls, you may end up with a coverage hole. In these cases, we use KS-525's because their coverage is wider and has more vertical element to it.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan Hitchman* /forum/post/14184305
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> Whew! There're a lot of posts to go through! Are you still happy with your THX Ultra 2 speakers and Crown XTI-1000 amps?
> 
> 
> I've seen some pretty good close out deals on the Crowns and was wondering if they're still recommended for the Klipsch system. I can get five of them for under $2,000 and use a Y-splitter for the second pair of side surrounds.
> 
> 
> Thanks! Was thinking of using 3 of the KL-650-THX's up front and 6 of the KL-525-THX's for the surrounds (one pair for each row of seats) plus their two subs. I do not like dipole speakers, especially with 8 channel discrete mixes and with two rows of seating... why not have it like a commercial theater with a larger wall of sound?
> 
> 
> Your thoughts?
> 
> 
> Your theater is one of my favorites! Simply superb!
> 
> 
> Dan



Hi Dan,


Thanks for the Kudos! The Crowns kept breaking down on me, I sent them back to Crown 3 times to be repaired. They seem to be finally working now.


The channels kept dropping out and the volume pods stopped working.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *danroliver* /forum/post/14065561
> 
> 
> Damn. Thanks for reporting back. Based on your "endorsement" earlier in this thread when you bought so many of them, and knowing how meticulous you are and how much consideration you put into your selections, I had settled on getting Insteon. Looks like I need to do more research, now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Dan



Yeah, unfortunately the light switches keep crapping out. I'm about to pull them out and update them with the most reliable high-tech switches on the market...


These...


----------



## SmX

If anyone is interested, I am going to be selling the 10.4" touch screen and dock I recently got and the TabletKiosk EO with dock.


I could never find time to get to using these so they are both pretty much new, they have just sat in their boxes for a while. If you are interested PM me.


Here are some pictures...















































Ruben


----------



## rider




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/14057286
> 
> 
> The Insteon light controls have been crapping out left and light. Since the time I installed about 65 of them in my home 2 years ago, about 20 of them died. When they are working, they work fine.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I would also advise against purchasing the Insteon Deluxe Theater Recliner for home theaters...


----------



## viper20

Reuben


what happened to all your pictures in this thread???


----------



## Anthony A.

hey sandman, why did you not end up using the martin logan speakers? im very curious cause they are awesome for home theater.


----------



## AccessHA

SandmanX,


I suspect many people in the community are curious about what worked in your install and what didn’t make the cut. I know you’ve gone through a lot of hardware/software and I’m wondering what stuff you still recommended and what got pulled. For example, since you are selling both touch screens… how are you controlling your system? Are you still using MainLobby?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony A.* /forum/post/14605806
> 
> 
> hey sandman, why did you not end up using the martin logan speakers? im very curious cause they are awesome for home theater.



Hi Anthony,


No, they didn't deliver the punch that I wanted in the theater. We watch allot of action movies and the Logans didn't give me the output I was looking for. I'm using the Klipsch Ultra2's.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AccessHA* /forum/post/14606910
> 
> 
> SandmanX,
> 
> 
> I suspect many people in the community are curious about what worked in your install and what didn't make the cut. I know you've gone through a lot of hardware/software and I'm wondering what stuff you still recommended and what got pulled. For example, since you are selling both touch screens how are you controlling your system? Are you still using MainLobby?



I just didn't have enough time to set up Cinemar properly. I worked on it (on and off) for a couple years and could never get it to where I wanted it. They have some new cool updates but I just don't have the time to get back into it. I ended up going with WMC and Meedio, it was simple to set up and it works for me and Meedio has some really slick flash themes which is what I really wanted all along.


Allot of my light switches crapped out and to be honest, I never really used the touch screen for them. The funny thing is the switches I never used crapped out on me too. The automated lights seemed like a really cool thing to do a few years ago but the reality is, I never used them. I only use the automated lights in the theater with the Lutron Graphic Eye that has never failed me.


So I am now basically controlling my theater with a URC MX-980 and it works flawlessly every time. Alan Gouger and a few other people here tried to shy me away from using a touch screen in the theater a few years ago and now I understand why. The handheld remote is the way to go for me.


Ruben


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/14622493
> 
> 
> Hi Anthony,
> 
> 
> No, they didn't deliver the punch that I wanted in the theater. We watch allot of action movies and the Logans didn't give me the output I was looking for. I'm using the Klipsch Ultra2's.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Your using Klipsch Ruben? BAH!!!!!!

















Hope all is well with you.


Cliff


----------



## cambo16

I went through all 116 pages in one work day. Jesus i'm such a slacker. Nice job Ruben!!


----------



## Anthony A.

hahaha, you and me alike. it took me 7 hrs straight from 9am to 5pm. and i got paid that day too!!


ps i guess it took me like 6hrs 45mins cause i did manage to squeeze in some time for mid-day lunch.


----------



## SeanCJ

Fantastic home cinema! You did great work!

Question: How do you like the Klipsch Ultra II's now that you've had them up and running for a while? Have you considered switching to anything else?

I've been running magnepan 1.6s behind my AT screen for about 9 months now and they are pretty nice, but I still keep wondering how much 'better' the Klipsh Ultra IIs would sound. Back then, they were a bit outside my budget, but now I think I could find them a bit cheaper.

Thanks, and again, great job!

Sean


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SeanCJ* /forum/post/14926841
> 
> 
> Fantastic home cinema! You did great work!
> 
> Question: How do you like the Klipsch Ultra II's now that you've had them up and running for a while? Have you considered switching to anything else?
> 
> I've been running magnepan 1.6s behind my AT screen for about 9 months now and they are pretty nice, but I still keep wondering how much 'better' the Klipsh Ultra IIs would sound. Back then, they were a bit outside my budget, but now I think I could find them a bit cheaper.
> 
> Thanks, and again, great job!
> 
> Sean



Thanks! The Klipsch Ultra 2's are still doing their job. I had Martin Logans in their previously but they didn't have enough punch. So I went with a system that had decent punch and had surrounds I could fit in my columns. I wanted to put my Genelec system in there but I could not get the smaller Genelecs to fit in my columns without re-doing them.


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cambo16* /forum/post/14820782
> 
> 
> I went through all 116 pages in one work day. Jesus i'm such a slacker. Nice job Ruben!!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Anthony A.* /forum/post/14821826
> 
> 
> hahaha. lets be brothers. it took me 7 hrs straight from 9am to 5pm. and i got paid that day too!!
> 
> 
> ps i guess it took me like 6hrs 45mins cause i did manage to squeeze in some time for mid-day lunch.



No wonder why so many businesses are going under

















Ruben


----------



## SmX

In the next 2 - 3 weeks I will be tearing down my screen wall to instal a ProMask-Curv masking system. I got such an incredible deal from SmX on the masking system, I couldn't refuse










Basically, if anyone remembers, I first had a flat false wall with a curved SmX screen. Then I tore down the flat false wall and built a curved wall to accommodate the curved screen.


The previous curved screen I had was a 16' radius which was an extreme curve that worked okay with my first pj and lens combo but since I changed PJs now the distortion has changed.


So now I am going back to a flat false wall and with a 37.5' radius 12' wide 2.40:1 ProMask-Curv masking screen. I'm going to also redo the covering I had on the wall behind the speakers to clean it up and redo the lighting that highlights the speakers.


The ProMask is going to float off the false wall and I am going to try a subtle blue backlight effect behind the frame.


I will post some pictures throughout the process once it begins.


Ruben


----------



## jamis

Can't wait to see the modifications!



BTW, Ruben... we are loving our (much less complicated) ProLine screen.


----------



## AccessHA

Thanks for the update Ruben... look forward to seeing the end result.


----------



## Black Banshee




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/14622540
> 
> 
> I just didn't have enough time to set up Cinemar properly. I worked on it (on and off) for a couple years and could never get it to where I wanted it. They have some new cool updates but I just don't have the time to get back into it. I ended up going with WMC and Meedio, it was simple to set up and it works for me and Meedio has some really slick flash themes which is what I really wanted all along.
> 
> 
> Allot of my light switches crapped out and to be honest, I never really used the touch screen for them. The funny thing is the switches I never used crapped out on me too. The automated lights seemed like a really cool thing to do a few years ago but the reality is, I never used them. I only use the automated lights in the theater with the Lutron Graphic Eye that has never failed me.
> 
> 
> So I am now basically controlling my theater with a URC MX-980 and it works flawlessly every time. Alan Gouger and a few other people here tried to shy me away from using a touch screen in the theater a few years ago and now I understand why. The handheld remote is the way to go for me.
> 
> 
> Ruben



AMEN! I hate Cinemar - spent hours and hours and hours only to have it work sometimes and never the way I wanted. Very angry I spent the money on that when MyMovies can now do more than the Cinemar DVDLobby software. And MyMovies is free!!







I control everything with a Harmony 880. Much improved. Definitely don't recommend that folks go with Cinemar unless they are extremely bored and enjoy frustration.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Black Banshee* /forum/post/15007384
> 
> 
> AMEN! I hate Cinemar - spent hours and hours and hours only to have it work sometimes and never the way I wanted. Very angry I spent the money on that when MyMovies can now do more than the Cinemar DVDLobby software. And MyMovies is free!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I control everything with a Harmony 880. Much improved. Definitely don't recommend that folks go with Cinemar unless they are extremely bored and enjoy frustration.



I think Cinemar can work out great if you have a trained professional set it up for you. They have the most advanced plug-ins I have seen for different control options. If you try to do it yourself and don't have to make it to complicated, it may work out well. I have a friend locally here that uses it for basic stuff and it works really well for him. My biggest problem was with the networking falling in and out and my lack of time to troubleshoot it.


Ruben


----------



## Daveys

Just read till page 70, WAUW!!!!! is the only thing I can say. Will read the rest tomorrow. What a great forum this is.


----------



## SmX

Couple updates: Old screen wall torn down, new screen wall built. This will be my 3rd screen wall since I built this theater. First it was flat and designed for a 10' wide screen, then I tore it down and built a 16' radius curved false wall for a 12' wide screen.


Well now that I am finally installing a 140" wide 2.40:1 ProMask-curv masking screen, I wanted the curve of the screen to be more pronounced, so I went back to a flat false wall believe it or not.


Aesthetically, the black cloth on the acoustical treated wall behind the speakers wasn't really doing much for me. I wanted to do something that was a bit more dramatic looking when the lights backlight the screen. So I decided to go with these anechoic chamber wedges for both form and function.


Right now you see the blue lights hitting the speakers but I am also adding white spotlights that will be pointing straight down in front of the wedges to increase the dramatic contrast effect of the wedges. Once I tune the brightness on the lights, it should achieve what I am looking for.


I also slightly adjusted the left and right speaker positions for the masking panels. I should finally get to installing the masking system tomorrow.


Here are a couple quick flicks so far...




















Ruben


----------



## FusionRx

Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/15318057
> 
> 
> Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...



He only put them on the front wall so I'm sure it can only help. You want that wall to be pretty much totally dead. Any sound that is going that direction needs to pretty much die and not come back at you.


Looks really cool so far, Ruben. Of course, I would expect nothing less...


----------



## GPowers

Very cool high tech look.


----------



## miltimj

Let me add my "very cool!" comment..







..with a question.. are they easy/cheap to find?


----------



## swithey

Nice Ruben. How far off the "true" floor (not the stage) is the bottom of the white part of the screen? 24"?


----------



## SmX

It's nice to see some of you guys are still active in here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FusionRx* /forum/post/15318057
> 
> 
> Just curious what changes to the sound you hear? You always see these in recording studios etc... a room like this at work is dead (no echos) and is actually sort of disconcerting to be in...



Nothing really big in sound changed from what I have noticed with the little bit of playback in there. Like mentioned below, this was only applied to the screen wall behind the AT screen.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr* /forum/post/15319276
> 
> 
> Looks really cool so far, Ruben. Of course, I would expect nothing less...



Thanks ebr. It was upgrade time so I figured to make some changes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GPowers* /forum/post/15320620
> 
> 
> Very cool high tech look.



Thanks! How is your theater doing? You have one of the theaters I most admired before I started mine.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/15321562
> 
> 
> Let me add my "very cool!" comment..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..with a question.. are they easy/cheap to find?



How dare you use easy and cheap in the same sentence?







Brian Pape special ordered them for me. Not cheap and not easy to install as they aren't all cut to true squares. The sizes varied so you have to dry lay them out and work from there.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *swithey* /forum/post/15322734
> 
> 
> Nice Ruben. How far off the "true" floor (not the stage) is the bottom of the white part of the screen? 24"?



Hi Swithey,


Close, I'm 28" from the bottom of the screen surface to the true floor.


Ruben


----------



## mbgonzomd

Nice work, Ruben. It looks sweet.


BTW, how is the screen business going? Have you been able to take some of the market share from the big boys... or are you one of the big boys now







?


----------



## dr350x

dude

man, still pushing the envelope!!! we're not worthy, we're not worthy....


i' ve admired your theater since its inception, great work, keep it up...

you've helped alot of guys and gals over the last few years. thanks!!!


----------



## smakovits

It is funny when a man like Ruben has a beautiful theater that many will admire, but somehow he get ill in the head and decides it is not good enough, so he goes ripping things down just to rebuild in a feeble attempt to make it even better. It is plain amusing, especially as I slowly try to finish my own build for the first time through.


Very nice. If you are looking for somewhere to throw your old screen because you dont need it any more, I would be more than happy to PM you my address.


----------



## Cam Man

Hi Ruben,

Have you or anyone measured your final RT-60 and NC in your theater? BTW, great cool factor on the new absorbers.


----------



## rigman

Hi SandmanX


going to fit a new HC in my house when I get the extension finished. Will be 21 foot x 12 foot. I would just like to say thanks for all of the photos and ideas you shared when building your It has been a great inspiration to me and sent me off in design directions I have never even knew existed.


Is that Auralex on the front wall?


----------



## awilcox

Hi SandmanX,


I am planning to begin my theater soon and I hope you don't mind me borrowing some our ideas. This may have been covered but how did you handle the ceiling reflection points and the starfield? You show an image with 2 6" X 8' strips of 1' material but I missed how they are attached.


Great theater. Great thread!!!!


Awilcox


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awilcox* /forum/post/15336641
> 
> 
> Hi SandmanX,
> 
> 
> I am planning to begin my theater soon and I hope you don't mind me borrowing some our ideas. This may have been covered but how did you handle the ceiling reflection points and the starfield? You show an image with 2 6" X 8' strips of 1' material but I missed how they are attached.
> 
> 
> Great theater. Great thread!!!!
> 
> 
> Awilcox



Awilcox,


I believe I did something similar to Ruben for my starfield ceiling (except on a smaller scale ). I basically built a frame with a small lip all the way around to hold pieces of the 2" OC703 insulation - made it a tight friction fit. After they were installed, I added some furring strips to keep it from popping out by accident when I installed it in the ceiling coffer .


Ruben's installation may have been a little easier since he attached his panels directly to furring strips on the ceiling.


----------



## awilcox

Steve,


Thanks for clarifying those details for me. I took a look at your theater thread and it is very impressive. I do believe I will borrow some of your ideas also. Hopefully you don,t mind


Adrian


----------



## swithey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *awilcox* /forum/post/15353203
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> 
> Thanks for clarifying those details for me. I took a look at your theater thread and it is very impressive. I do believe I will borrow some of your ideas also. Hopefully you don,t mind
> 
> 
> Adrian



Steal away


----------



## sdiaz911

Hi Sandman,


Outstanding work, talk about attention to detail. Very impressive!!!


You have inspired me to move forward with my theater build. I will be building it in a room with roughly the same dimensions 20 X 16. I had already built my screen (143" diagonal"). I will eventually go the perforated route.


I have one question for you as I have never taken on a project like this, however, with the aid of all the pretty pictures and detailed explanation you have provided I believe I might be able to pull it off. Here is my question:


You put up three layers of drywall and green glue for the ceiling and double dry wall and green glue for the walls. A soffit is built and this along with the columns are how wires are routed and to maximize sound control (sound escaping the room).


How exactly are the wires routed into the soffet and room from the adjoining ceilings and walls without cutting too many holes and then how do you control the loss of noise control through the newly created holes. Is the ductwork that you installed within the soffet for air conditioning or is it for routing the wires?


I know this may be a silly question, however, as I mentioned earlier, I have never taken on a project like this, but it is the route I must take to control costs. I will be hiring contractors to install the electrical (in fact my brother in law will likely be handling this portion) but I want to make sure that only the holes required are made to route electrical.


Thanks in advance for any help you may provide, it will be greatly appreciated.



Steve


----------



## sdiaz911

By the way this build will be happening in the unfinished basement. Four 2 X 6 Studded walls.


Thanks

Steve


----------



## wheniwork




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/7110030
> 
> 
> Updates:
> 
> 
> Well today we finished up the electrical work.
> 
> 
> Installed the Motorized curtain track (that I feel I got cheated on). When I opened up the Track box, the track was a skinny, wimpsy, cheap white track with a small BTX Motor. When I ordered a BTX track in NY, they delivered me a real nice heavy duty Track with 2 nice big BTX Motors. I think you can get this same track (generic name) on eBay for $150. I paid $550.00 for the BTX name.
> 
> 
> We installed the Equipment Rack.
> 
> 
> We also thoroughly cleaned the theater out so Its ready for the Carpet people next week.
> 
> 
> I ordered my perforated metal Grils for the Columns to go under the GoM for extra Support. Cost was $350.00 for 6 25" x 44" perforated steel sheets with a 41% openness.
> 
> 
> The Prosceniums still need to be made. We are going to wait for the carpet before we install them. We did get all our wood painted Black for them though.
> 
> 
> And Yes, Finally, we painted the grooves on the columns and Removed the blue tape.
> 
> 
> So Here are the Pictures:
> 
> 
> Here is the Equipment Rack without the Wood Trim and with the service track Attached. Those are some of the custom rack shelves installed for the Amps and other equipment I have thats not rackmountable. Maybe this Weekend I will start hooking up the equipment in there...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Rack Rolls out..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Rotates in both directions so you can access the wires in the back. The rack is made by Middle Atlantic and Costs about $800.00 with the service track.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some theater shots so Far...
> 
> 
> That openening is where my Curved 2.35:1 Audio transparent Screen will be hanging and my 2 Main speakers, center channel and Sub will be in there too. You can see some of the treatments on the wall behind the screen wall. That is all 4" Cotton, the bottom 2 Feet gets paper faced and I will be GoMing that wall behind the screen as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!



Anybody know where to buy Middle Atlantic Products (the equipment rack) online? Or does anybody know of other manufactures of these types of products? In particular I am considering something like this:
http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/asr_hd.htm 

Thanks again. This forum has been super helpful and quick to the draw on all my posts.


----------



## NeoOiler

Looks awesome again Ruben. I had a flood in my theatre last week, so its pretty much lying in ruin right now. May need to order another screen hahaa. Is there any way to restretch my existing one?


Thanks

Ryan


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wheniwork* /forum/post/15460038
> 
> 
> Anybody know where to buy Middle Atlantic Products (the equipment rack) online? Or does anybody know of other manufactures of these types of products? In particular I am considering something like this:
> http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/asr_hd.htm
> 
> Thanks again. This forum has been super helpful and quick to the draw on all my posts.



Did you do a google search for Middle Atlantic Racks ?


It seems besides the main Middle Atlantic page every other link is a "online" dealer. You'll need to figure out what you want and piece it together.


----------



## bigDvette




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Black Banshee* /forum/post/15007384
> 
> 
> AMEN! I hate Cinemar - spent hours and hours and hours only to have it work sometimes and never the way I wanted. Very angry I spent the money on that when MyMovies can now do more than the Cinemar DVDLobby software. And MyMovies is free!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I control everything with a Harmony 880. Much improved. Definitely don't recommend that folks go with Cinemar unless they are extremely bored and enjoy frustration.



I think your comments are a bit extreme. I have been using cinemar for almost 2 years. It is not for people that don't like to tinker, but it is great for people that want complete control. If you are just looking for IR control with a movie library, there are lots of solutions that are easier.


My Cinemar implementation (I did this myself) controls lighting, A/V, Pool, HVAC, monitors energy usage, whole house sound and irrigation. They have lots of plugins. The biggest issue was lighting because Insteon is so buggy, but some of us adopted the ISY and now all is well.


My screens are here https://bigd.homeserver.com/cinemar/defaultnew.html and were built with their graphics libraries.


For a list of components I control without any issue.


Russound CAV

Russound ST2

Russound SMS3 (currently replacing SMS3 with Itunes plugin)

Onkyo receivers (2) via Serial (1 via GC100 downstairs)

1 pioneer receiver in son's gameroom via IR

2 Tivos via IR

1 Bluray via IR

1 XBOX360 via IR

1 AVATRIX-562 via serial that routes all the above sources to 6 different room

1 oppo DVD downstiars using a GC100 to route IR over an IP network

1 Sony projector, 2 Toshiba TVs and 1 Samsung TV.


Home DVDs are on a Windows Home server that runs Cinemar Server and serves 3 touchpanels.


1 DAvis Weatherstation for real-time data including sensors in A/V closet

1 compool pool controller (had to write my own plugin)

75 Insteon devices using ISY to control insteon and webservice to integrate to cinemar


TED Energy mangement monitor to monitor energy usage

Prophilix IP thermostats which are monitored along with wiring closet temps to control exhaust fans and A/C


Again, as Sandman says, it is best to use someone that configures cinemar professionally if you aren't a tinkerer.


If you want full control for less than the cost of a projector then it is a viable and workable option. My system has not been down in over a year unless I updated something and had to restart the sytem.


----------



## Black Banshee

Don't disagree, I'm sure Cinemar has good uses for more exotic control systems - just wanted to warn folks like me who are looking for a simple DVD and Blu-Ray playback system and possibly learn from my mistake. As you said, don't use Cinemar unless you like to do a lot of tinkering.


----------



## SVonhof

So Ruben, did you get it all back together and working to your satisfaction yet?


----------



## loma




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bigDvette* /forum/post/15467771
> 
> 
> I think your comments are a bit extreme. I have been using cinemar for almost 2 years. It is not for people that don't like to tinker, but it is great for people that want complete control. If you are just looking for IR control with a movie library, there are lots of solutions that are easier.
> 
> 
> My Cinemar implementation (I did this myself) controls lighting, A/V, Pool, HVAC, monitors energy usage, whole house sound and irrigation. They have lots of plugins. The biggest issue was lighting because Insteon is so buggy, but some of us adopted the ISY and now all is well.
> 
> 
> My screens are here https://bigd.homeserver.com/cinemar/defaultnew.html and were built with their graphics libraries.
> 
> 
> For a list of components I control without any issue.
> 
> 
> Russound CAV
> 
> Russound ST2
> 
> Russound SMS3 (currently replacing SMS3 with Itunes plugin)
> 
> Onkyo receivers (2) via Serial (1 via GC100 downstairs)
> 
> 1 pioneer receiver in son's gameroom via IR
> 
> 2 Tivos via IR
> 
> 1 Bluray via IR
> 
> 1 XBOX360 via IR
> 
> 1 AVATRIX-562 via serial that routes all the above sources to 6 different room
> 
> 1 oppo DVD downstiars using a GC100 to route IR over an IP network
> 
> 1 Sony projector, 2 Toshiba TVs and 1 Samsung TV.
> 
> 
> Home DVDs are on a Windows Home server that runs Cinemar Server and serves 3 touchpanels.
> 
> 
> 1 DAvis Weatherstation for real-time data including sensors in A/V closet
> 
> 1 compool pool controller (had to write my own plugin)
> 
> 75 Insteon devices using ISY to control insteon and webservice to integrate to cinemar
> 
> 
> TED Energy mangement monitor to monitor energy usage
> 
> Prophilix IP thermostats which are monitored along with wiring closet temps to control exhaust fans and A/C
> 
> 
> Again, as Sandman says, it is best to use someone that configures cinemar professionally if you aren't a tinkerer.
> 
> 
> If you want full control for less than the cost of a projector then it is a viable and workable option. My system has not been down in over a year unless I updated something and had to restart the sytem.




Could you provide some information on this?

Russound SMS3 (currently replacing SMS3 with Itunes plugin)


----------



## itsameian

I must say I am very impressed, I have been sitting in the shaddows reading this thread for the past week and it is very inspiring! I am currently renovating an older house that i bought from the frame up. This thread has given me several ideas for the whole house but particularly what will be my HT/Living room. It has also been really cool to watch the start of what i hope will become a very successful business! one quick question for anyone that will answer, is there an ideal width for a light tray? And do some ropelights have a more even coverage than others?


----------



## THE_FORCE

Hi Ruben. No questions from me I'm afraid, but just wanted to say what a fantastic experience you've created there - the attention to detail is simply astounding, and it's also both a great incentive and extremely informative for anyone wanting to replicate it.


From a simple UK homee


All the best

Jon


----------



## queendvd2

Those columns are awesome, along with everything else of course!


----------



## Deepsky4565

Hi Ruben! I got an SMX screen from you last Summer, a 130" wide 2.40 AT. I just bought a new house, and will start again on a theater, and came across your thread. You have a great theater, and looks very close to what I have in mind for a new theater. Your thread will be invaluable to my new project. Thanks again, lovin the screen.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

Hi Ruben!


Still as awesome a theater as ever!


I have a quick question: I know you had had some trouble with your Crown amplifiers a while back, so I was wondering if you kept them and if they've held up since sending them back to Crown for repairs, or if you've updated amps since then?


The Face amps look good, but are "a bit" more pricey. Looking at Klipsch THX Ultra2 system.


Have you ever looked into Emotiva amps?


Sounds like your screen business is going like gang busters. I always like to see some healthy competition in the start up sector to give those big boys a run for their money!


----------



## Daveys




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan Hitchman* /forum/post/15774539
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben!
> 
> 
> Still as awesome a theater as ever!
> 
> 
> I have a quick question: I know you had had some trouble with your Crown amplifiers a while back, so I was wondering if you kept them and if they've held up since sending them back to Crown for repairs, or if you've updated amps since then?



Hi Ruben and Dan,


First of all, a VERY awesome theater














.


I'm also very interested in the answer of this question. I've really been inspired by your setup Ruben and bought the Klipsch Ultra's as well. It will be in my living room so I choose 3 KL-650's as L-C-R, 2 KS-525's for L-R surround and 1 KW-120 (will be 2 because Danley was no option, they don't have it here in The Netherlands







).


The amps shall also be the Crown XTI's. Currently I'm running the set with a Marantz with no XLR outputs so the sub isn't playing yet. The Onkyo SC886 will be here in a couple of weeks for the processing so then I can finally hook it up







.


There allready is 1 XTI 1000 for the Klipsch sub and will be replaced with a XTI 4000 when the second sub will arrive. That's why I'm very interested to read your answer if you have the time







. If you have any sugestions from your experience I would be very glad to hear them.


BR, Dave


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dan Hitchman* /forum/post/15774539
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben!
> 
> 
> Still as awesome a theater as ever!
> 
> 
> I have a quick question: I know you had had some trouble with your Crown amplifiers a while back, so I was wondering if you kept them and if they've held up since sending them back to Crown for repairs, or if you've updated amps since then?
> 
> 
> The Face amps look good, but are "a bit" more pricey. Looking at Klipsch THX Ultra2 system.
> 
> 
> Have you ever looked into Emotiva amps?
> 
> 
> Sounds like your screen business is going like gang busters. I always like to see some healthy competition in the start up sector to give those big boys a run for their money!



I had to send the Crowns back 3 times and the third time they gave me all new amps. The new amps have been working ever since. Besides the faulty amps, Crown has been great to work with. The paid for all the shipping and next day everything.


I never looked at Emotiva amps.


Thank you!

Ruben


----------



## Daveys




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/15843437
> 
> 
> I had to send the Crowns back 3 times and the third time they gave me all new amps. The new amps have been working ever since. Besides the faulty amps, Crown has been great to work with. The paid for all the shipping and next day everything.
> 
> 
> I never looked at Emotiva amps.
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Ruben



Thanks for your answer.


----------



## Dan Hitchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/15843437
> 
> 
> I had to send the Crowns back 3 times and the third time they gave me all new amps. The new amps have been working ever since. Besides the faulty amps, Crown has been great to work with. The paid for all the shipping and next day everything.
> 
> 
> I never looked at Emotiva amps.
> 
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Ruben



Hi Ruben!


Thanks for the response... since they work now (same model, or a different upgraded model??), would you still recommend the Crowns with the Klipsch system if you had to do it all over again?


Thank you again!


----------



## marco916

Hi All, Newbie to this Forum, Would anybody know where I can find a good place online or in the Sacramento area would be great. A place that carry's USB faceplates along with VGA or HDMI ports. Building a kitchen counter with a mini ITX Desktop computer setup. Computer will be stored in a closet next to the kitchen, but with the monitor attached to a folding monitor arm under the counter cabinet. I found DataPro.com through Google, but never shopped with them before. Are they ok to buy from.


Thanks

Mark

Sacramento, CA.


----------



## miltimj

I don't know about the USB faceplates.. I suppose you could try Datapro.


I'd use Monoprice for the HDMI/VGA plates (and networking for that matter). They're especially cheap the more you buy from them.


----------



## SmX

Update:


I picked up a new super wide lens that doesn't distort the image to snap some new pictures of the theater. Here are some pictures with the new 140" wide 2.40 SmX ProMask-Curv masking screen installed.


I'm still trying to work on the lighting behind the screen. I need spot lights and hoods on the speaker lights so the light doesn't flood the screen surface so much. This will help me get a better picture of the behind screen lighting.






































To give you an idea of how wide this lens is, here are a few shots I shot the other night down in Miami.




















Now this is wide!











Ruben


----------



## queendvd2

Jaw drops to the floor







. Breathtaking.


----------



## Daveys

That ceiling looks awsome with that new camera.


----------



## Tedd

So what's the lense?


Those are some stunning snapshots!


----------



## oman321

Wow, that new screen looks amazing... Beautiful. Those pics of the city aren't bad either.


----------



## cuzed2

Awesome, simply AWESOME !


Please send some more of this eye candy, from the HT or the new camera lens - it's all good


----------



## chirpie

Time to set up an iStockphoto account and make some residual cash.


----------



## damnsam77

WOW, just WOW!!! Just when I thought your theater could't get any better!! Can anyone see the 3D depth of the Fish screenshots, it almost feels like the fish is gonna come out of the screen. What's the curve ratio of your screen? or better yet what is the center dip of the screen (4", 5", 6") ?


----------



## miltimj

Oh, that's his screen? I thought he turned his theater into a viewing room for his saltwater reef tank.


----------



## damnsam77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/15966775
> 
> 
> Oh, that's his screen? I thought he turned his theater into a viewing room for his saltwater reef tank.



It almost looks like a real big reef tank, lol. If someone where to say this is a 13 foot wide salt reef tank, I would have believe them, except that clown fish would have been too big in real life, lol


----------



## SmX

Thanks for all the cool comments.


The camera is a Canon 40D





















Lens is a Canon EFS10-22mm











Ruben


----------



## In2Photos

Nice shots Ruben. Room still looks fantastic. Did you have to stitch the pano shot or it just one image that you cropped?


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/15966775
> 
> 
> Oh, that's his screen? I thought he turned his theater into a viewing room for his saltwater reef tank.



Did we ever get pics of the reef tank he was going to build?


----------



## ronnie_jackson

Ruben, it looks like your using an HDR technique for those shots. What program are you using? CS3, CS4, PhotoMatix, etc? Just curios as I have done a lot of HDR stuff also.


BTW, awesome shots with lots of detail. Love the panorama's also.


Ronnie


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/15968372
> 
> 
> Did we ever get pics of the reef tank he was going to build?



I seem to remember a link to a reef forum that had it.. or maybe that was MarkP's?


----------



## smakovits

Looks awesome.


The camera and lens take some awesome pictures...they better considering their price tag.


remind me again, this is in a Garage right....?


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronnie_jackson* /forum/post/15968614
> 
> 
> Ruben, it looks like your using an HDR technique for those shots. What program are you using? CS3, CS4, PhotoMatix, etc? Just curios as I have done a lot of HDR stuff also.
> 
> 
> BTW, awesome shots with lots of detail. Love the panorama's also.
> 
> 
> Ronnie



Hi Ronnie,


No HDR, those are straight raw out the camera. There is no PS coloring or contrasting either. Screen shot was captured with lights off with camera on a tripod then composited over the theater shot with the lights on with tripod in same position. That camera and lens combo is quite nice. I previously was using the Rebel XTi and This camera is night and day in comparison. The 40D is very comparable to Canons full frame cameras in many cases people favor the 40D over the full frame 5D.


The lighting took a bit of tweaking to get a decent balance. I am still not happy with some of the upper columns getting blown out or the corner of the rear right chair but I wanted to keep the lighting theme of the theater true to what it actually is.


I included the shot info below of the first picture I posted (since I know you like that stuff) ;->.


File Name IMG_1246.JPG

Camera Model Canon EOS 40D

Firmware Firmware Version 1.1.1

Shooting Date/Time 03/01/09 18:54:51

Owner's Name

Shooting Mode Aperture-Priority AE

Tv( Shutter Speed ) 25

Av( Aperture Value ) 3.5

Metering Mode Evaluative Metering

Exposure Compensation 0

ISO Speed 100

Lens EF-S10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM

Focal Length 10.0 mm

Image Size 3888x2592

Image Quality Fine

Flash Off

White Balance Mode Auto

AF Mode One-Shot AF

Picture Style Standard

Sharpness 3

Contrast 0

Saturation 0

Color tone 0

Color Space sRGB

Long exposure noise reduction 0:Off

High ISO speed noise reduction 0:Off

Highlight tone priority 0







isable

File Size 2184 KB

Dust Delete Data No

Drive Mode Self-Timer Operation

Date/Time(UTC)

Latitude

Longitude

Altitude

Geographic coordinate system


Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *In2Photos* /forum/post/15968361
> 
> 
> Nice shots Ruben. Room still looks fantastic. Did you have to stitch the pano shot or it just one image that you cropped?



Thanks! That was one wide shot cropped. That was the first night I got the lens so I really haven't had much experience with it and the camera. I now know the prime settings for it so I will be heading back downtown this weekend to shoot another round. If you are familiar with Miami, that shot was composed from the I-395 bridge.


Here is the un-cropped version. The quality is not as clear as it should be due to web compression.











Ruben


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/15968372
> 
> 
> Did we ever get pics of the reef tank he was going to build?



No reef tank as of yet. I kind of lost interest after visiting the local shops out here and seeing the inventory on several occasions. I would of thought South Florida would of had the best selection to choose from.


Ruben


----------



## etvois

if you were as hot as patrick antonius you might be the ultimate human being and i'd be forced to stalk you. and i'm not even gay.


sometimes i pretend you never read my references to you in the early stages of my thread, but i know in reality you probably did and just think i'm a retard.


pwned










you da man sandman


----------



## Tom Bley

Ruben, what is the projector that you are using to light up that massive screen?


Thanks.


----------



## damnsam77




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tom Bley* /forum/post/15974109
> 
> 
> Ruben, what is the projector that you are using to light up that massive screen?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



It looks like a Sony (VW40, VW60, Pearl...etc). I am just wondering what type of AR lens are you using


----------



## W00lly

Ruben


Are you still using the Isco II or did you upgrade to the III


----------



## CollinViegas

The projector looks like an Infocus 777 3 chip DLP. they are 720p but throw an amazing image and have more than enough light for that screen.


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CollinViegas* /forum/post/15974702
> 
> 
> The projector looks like an Infocus 777 3 chip DLP. they are 720p but throw an amazing image and have more than enough light for that screen.



We have a winner ...


----------



## SmX

Yes, the projector in the shots is the 777 which I measured last week at about 22 FTL at the screen with 150 hours on the new bulb.


I also have a Sim2 C3X Lumis I will be installing in the next 2 weeks once I get some free time. I was waiting on a mount for it as well.


Lens is still the ISCO II which works fine. The ISCO III is probably about 10% better and will have less distortion which doesn't matter to me because I am using a curved screen to reverse distortion.


Ruben


----------



## osofast240sx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/15981343
> 
> 
> Yes, the projector in the shots is the 777 which I measured last week at about 22 FTL at the screen with 150 hours on the new bulb.
> 
> 
> I also have a Sim2 C3X Lumis I will be installing in the next 2 weeks once I get some free time. I was waiting on a mount for it as well.
> 
> 
> Lens is still the ISCO II which works fine. The ISCO III is probably about 10% better and will have less distortion which doesn't matter to me because I am using a curved screen to reverse distortion.
> 
> 
> Ruben



can i use a curve screen with a AE3000 without a lense temporary?


----------



## mikieson

Well I have to ask..."if you dont mind"...What do you think the final cost is for this wonderful theater??


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikieson* /forum/post/16186527
> 
> 
> Well I have to ask..."if you dont mind"...What do you think the final cost is for this wonderful theater??



Its in here, post #1499, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...36#post7196536


----------



## DaGamePimp

Awesome , still cannot believe that was a garage







, amazing work Ruben







!


- Jason


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Once again Ruben,fantastic theater !!! That lens is very cool, zooms down to 10mm ? !


Art


----------



## JDirty

Hey sandman, Im up in boynton and besides the HOA did you need any permits before you started? I figure since we are both in palm beach county you would have some insight. I am going to have an inspector out for the electrical, but just wondering if I needed to pull permits. The project is exactly the same situation as yours, room within the garage.

Thanks in adavance

J


----------



## shawnwalters




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/16187469
> 
> 
> Its in here, post #1499, here:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...36#post7196536



Wow, I thought for sure he would have spent atleast twice that










For my next theater I want to hire Dennis to design my room and Ruben to do the build out and install










That Sim2 C3X Lumis Host sounds amazing. Now I've got projector envy. Wonder if you'll have to wear sunglasses in there now


----------



## MKtheater

I have never scene this thread before. I spend most of my time on the audio section. I am redoing my theater and started looking over here. I have to say this is one of the best looking theaters I have ever scene. It is beautiful. You have given me some great ideas. I will combine some things from your room and Arts room. Again, awesome work. Are you using the Klipsch THX ultra 2 speakers? That is what I see behind the screen on the first page. I can see my equipment in that room. Just imagine the Klipsch on steroids.


----------



## GPowers




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shawnwalters* /forum/post/16326250
> 
> 
> Wow, I thought for sure he would have spent atleast twice that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For my next theater I want to hire Dennis to design my room and Ruben to do the build out and install
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That Sim2 C3X Lumis Host sounds amazing. Now I've got projector envy. Wonder if you'll have to wear sunglasses in there now



I think that the "Renders of Room" refers to 3d modeling renders. The stuff that Reaper doses. look at this post 


Not full blown Home theater design, engineering and drawings.


----------



## indygreg

i am glad to see someone installing a 777. i bought one when i built my theater and i have taken so long to finish it that i was starting to think that it was an antique by today's standards. i still think it throws a great image and i love all the lumens. besides i like the way it looks on the ceiling so much that i hate to think about someday replacing it with a pj that is 1/3 it's size and throws a better image.



















the new screenwall looks really great ruben!


greg


----------



## dolby0102

Ruben,


What type of attachment did you end up using to attached the star ceiling panels the the ceiling? z-clips? Thanks.


----------



## Riblet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/15972565
> 
> 
> No reef tank as of yet. I kind of lost interest after visiting the local shops out here and seeing the inventory on several occasions. I would of thought South Florida would of had the best selection to choose from.
> 
> 
> Ruben



There is always some shop in the area that will order exactly what you want, and hold in quarantine for a few weeks for you taking away the risk of internet livestock purchase. The store is willing to do it because they get to display an unusual creature that could generate more sales at little risk to themselves, since you have already paid for it. You get a guaranteed healthy creature of the exact species you want. Plus, there are reef clubs in your area you may want to check out.


Awesome screen shots and work on your theater by the way!


----------



## Dark Regent

Your theater is a work of art my friend.


----------



## luketo

Wow I'm really at the end of this thread. It was great!!!! Nice job Ruben.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *osofast240sx* /forum/post/16186433
> 
> 
> can i use a curve screen with a AE3000 without a lense temporary?



Yes, many people do it. You will get a bit of a barrel distortion but it is nothing you will See during normal movie watching.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaGamePimp* /forum/post/16191260
> 
> 
> Awesome , still cannot believe that was a garage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , amazing work Ruben
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !
> 
> 
> - Jason



Thank you!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/16194607
> 
> 
> Once again Ruben,fantastic theater !!! That lens is very cool, zooms down to 10mm ? !
> 
> 
> Art



Thanks Art. Your theater was the inspiration for mine. I use to always reference your build threads for ideas. The Lens goes down to 10mm. However I just picked up the new Canon 5D MKII and that lens doesn't work on that camera. So now I need to find another lens for the new camera.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JDirty* /forum/post/16201402
> 
> 
> Hey sandman, Im up in boynton and besides the HOA did you need any permits before you started? I figure since we are both in palm beach county you would have some insight. I am going to have an inspector out for the electrical, but just wondering if I needed to pull permits. The project is exactly the same situation as yours, room within the garage.
> 
> Thanks in adavance
> 
> J



The city wants their money. You will need to pull permits if you plan on doing it the right way.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MKtheater* /forum/post/16328491
> 
> 
> I have never scene this thread before. I spend most of my time on the audio section. I am redoing my theater and started looking over here. I have to say this is one of the best looking theaters I have ever scene. It is beautiful. You have given me some great ideas. I will combine some things from your room and Arts room. Again, awesome work. Are you using the Klipsch THX ultra 2 speakers? That is what I see behind the screen on the first page. I can see my equipment in that room. Just imagine the Klipsch on steroids.



Thanks MK. Yes I am using the Klipsch THX Ultra II's and a Danley DTS-20 sub.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *indygreg* /forum/post/16394028
> 
> 
> i am glad to see someone installing a 777. i bought one when i built my theater and i have taken so long to finish it that i was starting to think that it was an antique by today's standards. i still think it throws a great image and i love all the lumens. besides i like the way it looks on the ceiling so much that i hate to think about someday replacing it with a pj that is 1/3 it's size and throws a better image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the new screenwall looks really great ruben!
> 
> 
> greg



Thanks Greg. I still enjoy the 777. I just don't like the screen door it has at the first row viewing distance. Since I sit in the back, I don't see much screen door except occasionally in real bright scenes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dolby0102* /forum/post/16459143
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> 
> What type of attachment did you end up using to attached the star ceiling panels the the ceiling? z-clips? Thanks.



Furring strips and brad nails and I think some industrial velcro stapled to the panels and furring strips.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Riblet* /forum/post/16459482
> 
> 
> There is always some shop in the area that will order exactly what you want, and hold in quarantine for a few weeks for you taking away the risk of internet livestock purchase. The store is willing to do it because they get to display an unusual creature that could generate more sales at little risk to themselves, since you have already paid for it. You get a guaranteed healthy creature of the exact species you want. Plus, there are reef clubs in your area you may want to check out.
> 
> 
> Awesome screen shots and work on your theater by the way!



Thanks. I went looking at reef two weeks ago without finding anything interesting. I may have to join those reef clubs.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dark Regent* /forum/post/16471337
> 
> 
> Your theater is a work of art my friend.



Thank you my friend.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *luketo* /forum/post/16496019
> 
> 
> Wow I'm really at the end of this thread. It was great!!!! Nice job Ruben.



Thank you.


----------



## SmX

I think I may be installing this masking screen next









* ProMask-Quad *


Ruben


----------



## Daveys

I noticed you are using the Crown XTI's. I'm curious about your settings in the Crown's (if you changed anything offcourse







).


----------



## MPOverdose

That ProMask-Quad and a full D-BOX setup are unfortunately things I can only dream of having one day. Maybe in my next home theatre. I am super jealous man.







I nearly creamed my pants looking at that YouTube vid. (Can I say that here?)


Hey SandmanX, thanks for the inspiration by the way. My results probably will not come close to your accomplishment, but I'm trying to emulate your efforts where feasible.


----------



## MPOverdose




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MPOverdose* /forum/post/16530335
> 
> 
> That ProMask-Quad and a full D-BOX setup are unfortunately things I can only dream of having one day. Maybe in my next home theatre. I am super jealous man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I nearly creamed my pants looking at that YouTube vid. (Can I say that here?)
> 
> 
> Hey SandmanX, thanks for the inspiration by the way. My results probably will not come close to your accomplishment, but I'm trying to emulate your efforts where feasible.



More like plagiarise.


----------



## Mark P

I think it needs a year or so of testing, please forward me one and I will get started


----------



## Chiahead




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/16531341
> 
> 
> I think it needs a year or so of testing, please forward me one and I will get started



Mark, don't you need to finish the theater first?


----------



## Wrager

Ruben-

I followed your thread thru the 'early days." I bought my AT screen material from you (of course). It is/was the single best decision I made doing my theater. Thanks for your amazing contribution to this hobby!


----------



## mutchumbo

Outstanding job. A real credit to you.


----------



## ABBN

Best theater ever.


----------



## tony123

Ruben, first off, awesome room! I'm sure you enjoy it tremendously!


Question: I notice a few months back you said you were using the Klipsch U2's with a Danley, but your profile is showing Martin Logans. Did you change recently? or is the profile out of date?


I was researching your thread for any comments you made regarding the U2's, as I have just purchased the KL650's for my front three.


Also, would you comment on your sub choice. Did you first audition with the KW120's and then the Danley? what were your impressions of the two options?


Thanks,

tony


----------



## Moggie

Hey Tony, you should read the entire thread, it will only take .... 2 days!

The short story is that the Martin Logans were switched to the Klipsch mid way through the project as the ML were not the best choice for high energy HT use. Ruben was never satisfied with the KW120's impact so went with the Danley instead.


No go read the whole thread


----------



## tony123

Forgive me...







I have to get SOME work done during the day too. Is there an audio version of this thread published? Maybe I can listen to it on my commute?










Thanks for the summary Moggie. I'll be interested to hear some specifics from Ruben on the KW120 and the Danley then.


----------



## tony123

You know what! On second thought, I'm going to make it a weekend project to get through this thread line by line.










Edit: Read to post #2700 in 3.5 hours.... Eyes bloodshot and 1:30 a.m. !!!!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey SandmanX,


Brilliant HT! I was wondering if you had any pictures of how you ended up mounting your projector? Did you end up putting it in the hush box like you had planned?


I'm trying to work out what to do with my projector at the moment. I'm not sure if I should try to hide it in the soffit, a hush box or just attach it to the roof.


Cheers,

Simon


----------



## tony123

Ruben, no need to comment further on the Klipsch's. I'm catching all the discussions you've already had. And I've had mine long enough now to know that I don't need a second opinion! They are awesome and don't think mine will ever be replaced!


----------



## smith43017

I am new to forum. Thanks for all this info.


----------



## jlachanc

Ruben, thanks for inspiring so many of us to 'take it to the next level' in our builds. In my case the thanks is double, as I felt your design was worth duplicating. The old saying about imitation/flattery certainly applies in my case.


Cheers,

Jason


----------



## MidniteArrow

Does anyone know if SandmanX's more detailed blog of pictures is currently up anywhere? The last posting regarding it in this thread seems to have been that it was in the forum at smxscreen.com, but there doesn't appear to be a forum there.


----------



## SbWillie

congrats on the EH writeup!


----------



## didyouseethe

Hey!


I don't know if you still check this thread, SandmanX, but I've been a lurker here for a while and finally signed up....


I'm doing a High Quality 3D render of your Home Theatre and I would love it if I could get in contact with you and ask some questions to you directly.


Mainly things like exact dimensions, high quality photos of your carpet, walls, and chairs for texture mapping, and other things of that nature.


If you could get in contact with me or point me to a place where we can chat, I would be eternally grateful! I went ahead and send you a message through this forum but I wasn't sure if you check it anymore.


PM me when you receive this! Thanks!


----------



## Cathan

You should try to reach him through his business.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *didyouseethe* /forum/post/17071922
> 
> 
> Hey!
> 
> 
> I don't know if you still check this thread, SandmanX, but I've been a lurker here for a while and finally signed up....
> 
> 
> I'm doing a High Quality 3D render of your Home Theatre and I would love it if I could get in contact with you and ask some questions to you directly.
> 
> 
> Mainly things like exact dimensions, high quality photos of your carpet, walls, and chairs for texture mapping, and other things of that nature.
> 
> 
> If you could get in contact with me or point me to a place where we can chat, I would be eternally grateful! I went ahead and send you a message through this forum but I wasn't sure if you check it anymore.
> 
> 
> PM me when you receive this! Thanks!


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Didn't Chirpie alread do renders of this from during the build process?


Maybe you should render BigmouthinDC's instead







.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/17072861
> 
> 
> Didn't Chirpie alread do renders of this from during the build process?
> 
> 
> Maybe you should render BigmouthinDC's instead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yes, and but only if he puts in the planned 2.35 HT2.0 screen


----------



## cpotteke22

Awesome theater. Do you have any cose-up picks of the carpet? It looks like a pattern I have seen in another thread, but I can't tell for sure.

Thanks


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

It is the Masland Quadrate, it comes in various colors. I have gray his is black. Sandman had a guy dye all the little stripes red by hand. (you can't make this $hit up)

http://www.maslandcarpets.com/bldetail.asp?id=70


----------



## cpotteke22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/17080069
> 
> 
> It is the Masland Quadrate, it comes in various colors. I have gray his is black. *Sandman had a guy dye all the little stripes red by hand*. (you can't make this $hit up)
> 
> http://www.maslandcarpets.com/bldetail.asp?id=70



To quote the great thespian Keanu reeves- whoa


----------



## cpotteke22

BigmouthinDC- thanks for the link. Now that I've seen it closer, thats not the one I thought it was, but a nice option nonetheless. I've browsed about a hundred threads looking for the pattern I saw earlier this week to no avail. Guess i'll have to keep looking since I was too dumb to bookmark the thread when I saw it.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpotteke22* /forum/post/17080364
> 
> 
> Guess i'll have to keep looking since I was too dumb to bookmark the thread when I saw it.



You might be lucky and it is in the "Show me your carpet thread"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...me+your+carpet


----------



## cpotteke22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/17080465
> 
> 
> You might be lucky and it is in the "Show me your carpet thread"
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...me+your+carpet



Thanks for your help- I think I found it:

http://www.couristan.com/cms.aspx?Gu...1-3b2522b63264


----------



## didyouseethe

Yeah, it is a little too late to change which theatre I'm going to render. I tried calling the company but I'm not sure they know what's going on concidering I don't even know what Sandman's real name is. Does anybody know of a way I can contact him directly? Maybe an email or a first name?


Thanks!


----------



## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *didyouseethe* /forum/post/17102302
> 
> 
> Yeah, it is a little too late to change which theatre I'm going to render. I tried calling the company but I'm not sure they know what's going on concidering I don't even know what Sandman's real name is. Does anybody know of a way I can contact him directly? Maybe an email or a first name?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



He's not hard to find... are you for real? Just look for SMX and be sure you clear your render through him (Ruben).


----------



## MidniteArrow

Ruben Dallas isn't it? Or maybe Paul Rubens.


Just ask for Ruben, but good luck. To the best of my knowledge, he owns and runs the company, so they should know who you are talking about.


----------



## ifeliciano

No...His name is Ruben Ortiz. Find his number on http://www.smxscreen.com/contact-us.html 




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidniteArrow* /forum/post/17102349
> 
> 
> Ruben Dallas isn't it? Or maybe Paul Rubens.
> 
> 
> Just ask for Ruben, but good luck. To the best of my knowledge, he owns and runs the company, so they should know who you are talking about.


----------



## MidniteArrow

Those were both movie references [5th element, pee-wee herman], I'll try and limit my humor in the future.


----------



## ifeliciano




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidniteArrow* /forum/post/17104646
> 
> 
> Those were both movie references [5th element, pee-wee herman], I'll try and limit my humor in the future.



Yes, I figured that much. Humor is always welcome. I was just trying to help the noob


----------



## stereoking2

Ruben


I see you put a lot of the pics back up.

Thank you


----------



## luketo

This is one of the best looking room I've seen so far on this forum.


----------



## luketo

Great Job Ruben!!


----------



## mike2060

#3598 posts read in about a week, now I finally get to post in it! I think I have to give the now cliched "Amazing job!", etc etc..


----------



## GPowers

Here is David Bott co-owner of the AVSForum with Ruben. The video titled AVSForum presents to Ruben Ortiz is here for everyone that needs to know... It is a video from CEDIA a months back.


----------



## Jacob B




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX* /forum/post/6679209
> 
> 
> Like BPape Said, the Ceiling is treated to take care of the reflection points. The Ceiling and Light Trays are now finished and look awesome! The Light Trays/Soffits just need to be Paper Faced and Covered with the GoM now.
> 
> 
> Pictures coming soon.



Hi Ruben,

How did you combine the acoustic treatment of ceiling reflection points with your star light ceiling - I copying your star light idea










BPape advised me at some point to bass trap treat the ceiling area right above the primary row - how would I combine that with the starlights?

And how about 1st reflection points? Drill holes or cut squares in the masonite at starless areas, with OC703 behind?


My AT SMX 2.4:1 screen bought last year is still sitting in its box, progress in the HT 2.0 construction is slow










Cheers,

Jacob

Denmark


----------



## Chiahead

Sound would just reflect off of the masonite. You would need to use just the OC703, and wrap that and drill through for the fibers. I have not gotten that far yet, so have never played with OC703 to know if it is stiff enough to accomplish this task.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jacob B* /forum/post/17847734
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> How did you combine the acoustic treatment of ceiling reflection points with your star light ceiling - I copying your star light idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BPape advised me at some point to bass trap treat the ceiling area right above the primary row - how would I combine that with the starlights?
> 
> And how about 1st reflection points? Drill holes or cut squares in the masonite at starless areas, with OC703 behind?
> 
> 
> My AT SMX 2.4:1 screen bought last year is still sitting in its box, progress in the HT 2.0 construction is slow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jacob
> 
> Denmark



Happy New Year to everyone.


Hello Jacob,


I built the same tray with the masonite board and furring strips but turned the tray around so the masonite was on the back. The fiberglass was then stapled/glued inside the panel to the masonite. I drilled the holes for the fiber optics through the masonite and fiberglass together before wrapping it with GoM.


Ruben


----------



## HDLife

I am looking for the screen material that Ruben had decided upon but cannot anymore. Has the thread been modified since he started the SMX business?


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

In the beginning when Ruben started down the path of tinkering with screen materials he used a Phifer Sheerweave 4500 in caulk, that was fine for 720P, then he had the company do a special custom weave for 1080P and recently developed even another fabric.


Only the original fabric which he no longer uses can be sourced by the consumer. http://www.interiormall.com/cat/nsam...=113044&t=2182 


If you visit the screen forums both commercial and DIY there is a lot of discussion of alternative fabrics available.


----------



## HDLife

So does anyone know what he finally used for his home screen?


----------



## cbht

Hey Man


I have spent the last 2 days reading through this build Congrats on an incredible project!! I am looking into using a tablet PC with touchscreen to control my HTPC What software will I need to control this? and What is the best way to rip DVDs and Blu Rays? I tried DVD Clone and no success. Thanks man.


Corey


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife* /forum/post/18080349
> 
> 
> So does anyone know what he finally used for his home screen?



An SMX screen.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/18379538
> 
> 
> An SMX screen.



As if that was a surprise!


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/18379538
> 
> 
> An SMX screen.



Oh ho ho. You're a riot.


----------



## qtazure

Great job！

Very nice！

Thank you very much！


----------



## Mfusick

this is a great record and archive of the process and build-


looking back through it was great....


nice job OP


congrats


----------



## HDLife




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chirpie* /forum/post/18390935
> 
> 
> Oh ho ho. You're a riot.



I realize that there is always someone out there with a mouth smarter than mine. But the question is a legitimate one. I am wondering about the difference between his original one that he initially installed vs. the ones he ordered specifically for his SMX business. I would like to know what I am investing in before I drop a couple of thousand for the SMX screen.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

I would like to know that too as I have an unused roll of SMX1.0 from back when he was simply buying 30 ft rolls of Pfeifer 4500 and cutting it up for AVS brothers. I think I got a piece off the second roll. Little did we know that we were partially funding his start-up. Albeit a small portion. Since then he has been close to the vest with his "Proprietary" weave.


----------



## Mfusick

what would you assume is the total cost of the project?


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick* /forum/post/18589375
> 
> 
> what would you assume is the total cost of the project?



No need to assume.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...et#post7196536


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/18589427
> 
> 
> No need to assume.



I did a quick review of that list and found some items missing:


new Projector

Screen (at cost I hope)

switched out the speakers for Klipsh

went with a Danly Sub.

HTPC and servers.


----------



## dc_pilgrim

First rule of marital budget negotiation - never mention future upgrades.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/18590121
> 
> 
> First rule of marital budget negotiation - never mention future upgrades.



Oh yeah, you've got that right!


And imagine my surprise when I found out that the kitchen comes before the theater...


----------



## SmX

For those of you who don't visit the AVS screen forum often, I just wanted to let you know AVS has a few deeply discounted overstock SmX screens for sale. See the AVS post here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1247268 


Regards,

Ruben


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX* /forum/post/18651537
> 
> 
> For those of you who don't visit the AVS screen forum often, I just wanted to let you know AVS has a few deeply discounted overstock SmX screens for sale. [/url]



Eagerly waiting for my shipment, no real rush as I've wanted an SMX Screen for years. This sale was too good to pass up. I am working on hanging my new projector and lens today.


----------



## marlon1925

Any plans of expanding your operations in ASIA sir Ruben?


----------



## marlon1925




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jlachanc* /forum/post/17011457
> 
> 
> Ruben, thanks for inspiring so many of us to 'take it to the next level' in our builds. In my case the thanks is double, as I felt your design was worth duplicating. The old saying about imitation/flattery certainly applies in my case.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jason



What's your room dimensions and projection screen size sir?


Thank you.


----------



## marlon1925




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr.Hander* /forum/post/13929278
> 
> 
> Complete - Finally
> 
> 
> After countless hours researching, product hunting' and constructing(not to mention the many hours I spent at the second and third job I needed to fund this project
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I have completed my version of the World Famous SANDMAN THEATER.
> 
> 
> I would just like to say thanks to Ruben for taking the time and being so helpful to me during the completion of my theater. If it wasn't for him taking the time to post detailed pictures of his theater's progress along with step-by-step instructions for many to follow I probably would have given up long ago.
> 
> 
> Attachment 111107
> 
> Attachment 111108
> 
> Attachment 111109
> 
> 
> Thanks Again,
> 
> Mark
> 
> Minneapolis, MN




Same question I asked above sir, may I know your room dimension and projection screen size?


Thank you


----------



## marlon1925




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX* /forum/post/18651537
> 
> 
> For those of you who don't visit the AVS screen forum often, I just wanted to let you know AVS has a few deeply discounted overstock SmX screens for sale. See the AVS post here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1247268
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ruben



I hope you'll have a dealer for ASIA soon







he he


----------



## Cathan

Marlon - you will need to PM those people since they aren't the thread's original poster. The odds that they will read your question are practically zero. Or better yet, go to that builders thread. He has it in his signature file.


----------



## BmoreHunter

Ruben, I have been looking over your thread for the last 3 days continuously. WOW, what an incredible job. My only question is how did you hang the starlite panels to the ceiling? I see how you wrapped them, put the starlite in, etc. But don't know after they were wrapped, hot glued the starlite, etc how you hung it to the ceiling. Did you screw through the fabric into the ceiling?


Thanks


----------



## NightSkyMurals

I had posted something in this forum (about 4 or 5 years ago) and then after my computer crashed I never found my way back here. Now, today, I stumbled upon that old string posts... and see that I was asked a question that was never answered. So... let me do it now.


I mix my own paint that is both reflective (under a black light) and also Glow-In-The-Dark too. The glow, if the room is very dark, can last for up to 12 hours. I have a customer in California who uses the black light to see the night sky while the movie is playing... and then turns everything off to see the mural in total darkness after the movie. you get two different murals when you do it that way.


Jeff




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SVonhof* /forum/post/6645056
> 
> 
> So, Jeff, how does your system work? Is is reflective paint or glo-in-the-dark paint?


----------



## GRBoomer

Search this thread for "fiber optic". There is a central light source running fiber optics to each point of light.


----------



## Mister Fister

absolutely gorgeous, i'm jealous


----------



## roman911

Hi Ruben,


How did you manage to wrap the veneer around the front of the light tray radius area? it seems like you used two pieces but I tried doing that can't manage to do it without getting rincles. Did you use more that 2 pieces?


And yes. I did read your veneering page.


Thanks



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/7237485
> 
> 
> And now for a completely unrelated question...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For your light trays/soffit veneering, you said that you wrapped the veneer around the rounded edge for at least the two sides and back (which makes sense). However, what did you do for the front? Use two pieces? How do the corner edges match up as far as looks (compared with the side soffit corners)? I apologize if you mentioned this somewhere, but I couldn't find it..


----------



## roman911

Any body knows the answer to this? Please help.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roman911* /forum/post/19054390
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> How did you manage to wrap the veneer around the front of the light tray radius area? it seems like you used two pieces but I tried doing that can't manage to do it without getting wrinkles. Did you use more that 2 pieces?
> 
> 
> And yes. I did read your veneering page.
> 
> 
> Thanks


----------



## adammb

Has to be cut. No way you could do that wrap around with the curve and still look good. Unless of course there was some sort of special veneer


----------



## davey_fl

Aaargh! A bunch of the pics went missing last night. Looks like the domain that was hosting them expired. Can this be fixed please???


Thanks!


----------



## auburnu008




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davey_fl* /forum/post/19080713
> 
> 
> Aaargh! A bunch of the pics went missing last night. Looks like the domain that was hosting them expired. Can this be fixed please???
> 
> 
> Thanks!



x2


----------



## roman911

Well I have studied the sandmanx's pics of his radius curve front stage light trait and it only appears to seam at the center. almost indicating that only two large pieces were use. Half the radius being cover from one piece, wrap around from top to bottom. I tried replecating this with kraft paper but i get a couple wrinkles in the proccess. I heard of softning the veneer with special agent but I dont think the sandmanx went to that extreme. I have to tackle this project today and I think I can cut the whole bottom as one piece and the top bend as another and over lap them at the bottom curve and then cut and seam together but I would rather just find a way to wrap two pieces like sandmanx did cause otherwise the cut will have to be very straight and precise. Doing this on a curve keeping the same distance from the edge can be quite a challange.


If any body has any ideas please let them be heard now.


Thanks



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adammb* /forum/post/19054390
> 
> 
> Has to be cut. No way you could do that wrap around with the curve and still look good. Unless of course there was some sort of special veneer





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roman911* /forum/post/19054390
> 
> 
> Hi Ruben,
> 
> 
> How did you manage to wrap the veneer around the front of the light tray radius area? it seems like you used two pieces but I tried doing that can't manage to do it without getting rincles. Did you use more that 2 pieces?
> 
> 
> And yes. I did read your veneering page.
> 
> 
> Thanks





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/19054390
> 
> 
> And now for a completely unrelated question... For your light trays/soffit veneering, you said that you wrapped the veneer around the rounded edge for at least the two sides and back (which makes sense). However, what did you do for the front? Use two pieces? How do the corner edges match up as far as looks (compared with the side soffit corners)? I apologize if you mentioned this somewhere, but I couldn't find it..


----------



## davey_fl

Well it looks like the pics are gone. I haven't seen a response from Sandman and still no pics. Did anyone cache them? This thread was a wealth of knowledge for the AVS community but without reference pictures it's not much help... I could host the pics if someone has them....


----------



## chirpie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davey_fl* /forum/post/19100438
> 
> 
> Well it looks like the pics are gone. I haven't seen a response from Sandman and still no pics. Did anyone cache them? This thread was a wealth of knowledge for the AVS community but without reference pictures it's not much help... I could host the pics if someone has them....



Ruben is probably busy getting ready for cedia, hence the silence on this thread.


----------



## roknrol

Man, I was only on page 8 of the thread when the pics disappeared! Now I'm kicking myself for not reading faster.


----------



## davey_fl

Ruben: Thanks very much for taking care of the images problem. It's greatly appreciated!!









David


----------



## auburnu008

Anyone know if it is possible to save the whole thread to your computer? I see you can save it as a notebook without the pics, but I was hoping to save it without individually saving each picture.


----------



## marklabelle870

Yes...under thread tools you can choose Download this thread.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *auburnu008* /forum/post/19254922
> 
> 
> Anyone know if it is possible to save the whole thread to your computer? I see you can save it as a notebook without the pics, but I was hoping to save it without individually saving each picture.


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marklabelle870* /forum/post/19257289
> 
> 
> Yes...under thread tools you can choose Download this thread.



But the thread tools are usually hidden by the advertising that appears in that corner! Most annoying!


BTW auburnu008 is looking for the thread complete with pictures, the process you suggest only pulls down the text...


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood* /forum/post/19259037
> 
> 
> But the thread tools are usually hidden by the advertising that appears in that corner! Most annoying!



Not for subscribers


----------



## auburnu008

Yea, thread tools only saves text and not pictures. I just set me preferences to show 60 posts per page and used the "file save page as" in firefox and saved each page individually.


----------



## smakovits

3600 pages, 60 posts per page, thats still 60 saved pages...I havent looked, but is 60 the max posts per page I take it?


----------



## FRodgers

Ruben ...how did you install your rope lights and what type of lights did you used?


----------



## MichaelB14

I wrote the screen scaping tool in 5 minutes, so I doubt it is perfect but should be mostly there.

http://brumbelow.net/avs/sandman.pdf 


I am going to delete it in a couple of days so it doesn't kill my bandwidth...


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MichaelB14* /forum/post/19285532
> 
> 
> I wrote the screen scaping tool in 5 minutes, so I doubt it is perfect but should be mostly there.
> 
> http://brumbelow.net/avs/sandman.pdf
> 
> 
> I am going to delete it in a couple of days so it doesn't kill my bandwidth...



Thanks, that is a much better method to view/save this thread!


----------



## J_P_A




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MichaelB14* /forum/post/19285532
> 
> 
> I wrote the screen scaping tool in 5 minutes, so I doubt it is perfect but should be mostly there.
> 
> http://brumbelow.net/avs/sandman.pdf
> 
> 
> I am going to delete it in a couple of days so it doesn't kill my bandwidth...



You sir, are the man!


----------



## JapanDave

Awesome build Ruben! I am a little slow to the party, but your theater is stunning!


----------



## hangloose




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidniteArrow* /forum/post/17011799
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if SandmanX's more detailed blog of pictures is currently up anywhere? The last posting regarding it in this thread seems to have been that it was in the forum at smxscreen.com, but there doesn't appear to be a forum there.



Any update on this question?


I was registered over at http://www.smxscreen.com/forum , a year and a half ago and found Sandman's detailed write-ups absolutely invaluable. Anyone have an archived version, or does it reside somewhere else now?


I tried to look at the web archive version from 2008 but couldn't find any of the good writeups: http://web.archive.org/web/200805101...een.com/forum/ . You can see some good threads but none of Sandman's detailed write-ups.


Any info you guys could provide would be really helpful...


By the way, I know it doesn't have to be said but Sandman: you have the greatest HT I have ever seen. Big congrats!!!


----------



## starcat

Lots of the write ups and details were removed, including from these forums after he founded his new SMX company! No wonder, no?!


----------



## starcat




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MichaelB14* /forum/post/19285532
> 
> 
> I wrote the screen scaping tool in 5 minutes, so I doubt it is perfect but should be mostly there.
> 
> http://brumbelow.net/avs/sandman.pdf
> 
> 
> I am going to delete it in a couple of days so it doesn't kill my bandwidth...



Perhaps someone has an older saved version of the thread prior SandmanX removed all the details?


----------



## SmX

Those forums had all the same details that are in this thread except they were organized by category. If you have any questions, you can search this thread by using the "search within thread function" or ask me and I can answer.


Best,

Ruben


----------



## Active Speaker

Oldie, but goodie.


----------



## donjuanwater

How did you convert this to PDF? Can you explain the steps?


----------



## donjuanwater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *starcat* /forum/post/19615374
> 
> 
> Perhaps someone has an older saved version of the thread prior SandmanX removed all the details?



How did you convert this to PDF? Can you explain the steps?


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *donjuanwater* /forum/post/21220278
> 
> 
> How did you convert this to PDF? Can you explain the steps?



Are you looking for the process(?) because the link above with the thread already converted to PDF worked for me...


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Yes, the thread is still alive, just right click and save it to your computer. Be aware that it is 1227 pages long as a PDF.


----------



## triggernick

Amazing. apparently I'm 5 years late for the prom...

at 26 years old, my wife and I are in our first home and building a theater. this thread has provided a ton of ideas, sources, direction and inspiration. Thank you for your detailed instruction and taking the time to share your passion with every one.


SMX it's amazing how even 5 years later your HT is still evolutionalry! pretty cool. Our budget is going to be miniscule, but I think we can create a decent theater experience, and we are excited to get started!


and we are in the market for a AT screen







I think I have something in mind


----------



## Shopview

Amazing thread and build!


Would you have the final built dimensions you could post or PM me? We are trying to decide whether we can fit a 3 front 4 rear into our room and layout the risers and rear riser to screen/ front riser spacing like yours. We like the curve etc but I couldn't find the full dimensions to compare with our room.


Thank you for sharing


----------



## scl23enn4m3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Shopview* /forum/post/21355148
> 
> 
> Amazing thread and build!
> 
> 
> Would you have the final built dimensions you could post or PM me? We are trying to decide whether we can fit a 3 front 4 rear into our room and layout the risers and rear riser to screen/ front riser spacing like yours. We like the curve etc but I couldn't find the full dimensions to compare with our room.
> 
> 
> Thank you for sharing



Per the first post



> Quote:
> The finished inside room dimensions will be 20' x 16' x 8.5" ceiling



He's got a layout diagramed there too. (I'm sure he meant 8.5'.)


----------



## realestatecody

What was the final prize tag on this amazing HT, this thing is mind blowing.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

if you search this MASSIVE thread with the search term of "Total Cost" the question is asked and answered with a link to the exact thread where he posted the cost breakdown.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...36#post7196536


----------



## Shopview




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scl23enn4m3* /forum/post/21355246
> 
> 
> Per the first post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's got a layout diagramed there too. (I'm sure he meant 8.5'.)





Looking for more detail on the as built stage and risers..... Radius points, stair widths etc


----------



## rs691919

Just finished going through this thread from the beginning...the process of reading through this practically deserves a thread of its own. I was simply amazed that Ruben's quest to find the perfect screen led to a whole new company. Incredible. Makes me wish I had some DIY talent..alas.


----------



## TMcG

Hi Ruben. Long-time lurker and first time poster to this thread. First - like everyone else - big thumbs up for the room design and execution. You certainly solved a lot of challenging problems in your fight to get exactly what you wanted. Congrats.


Second, have you had the chance to run any 3D in this room on your AT screen? If so what is your impression of 3D performance with this woven screen? Thanks for your input.


----------



## SKINSnCANES

Great build. Ive been speaking with Bryan about the acoustics in my room and he mentioned yours.


I have a question, do you find there is enough light in the room? When I spoke with Ted from the Sound Proofing Company he strongly advised high hat lights above the seating area so you can see the remotes, what you are working on, etc, if you need too. He said he regrets in his theater not adding lights on the ceiling. You've had yours for a few years, do you have enough light?


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

Ruben's last post to his build thread was over a year ago, so don't hold your breath for a quick turnaround.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Skins you may want to reach out to Damelon (Bacon Race Theater) about lighting as we built a room with similar lighting to Ruben's at his place. His lighting is 15 of those small 3 inch recessed lights around the perimeter soffit. No down lighting.


Answer Part 2


My ceiling is riddled with recessed lights because I was young and foolish back then. The problem with thinking you are going to need a light for your remote is that when you are in the middle of a movie the lights will be turned off. Just invest in a good back lit remote, or think about the Ipad/Iphone remote options.


----------



## SKINSnCANES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/21429424
> 
> 
> Skins you may want to reach out to Damelon (Bacon Race Theater) about lighting as we built a room with similar lighting to Ruben's at his place. His lighting is 15 of those small 3 inch recessed lights around the perimeter soffit. No down lighting.
> 
> 
> Answer Part 2
> 
> 
> My ceiling is riddled with recessed lights because I was young and foolish back then. The problem with thinking you are going to need a light for your remote is that when you are in the middle of a movie the lights will be turned off. Just invest in a good back lit remote, or think about the Ipad/Iphone remote options.



My remote is definitely going to be an iPad...so now that I think about it that part isn't an issue at all. It somethings that Ted from Sound Proof Company warned me about when we were speaking. Though I am notorious for not being able to just sit and relax, I have to multitask. I don't sit and watch movies I sit with a movie on and my laptop open and doing whatever. If its a laptop you don't really need extra light but if Im doing anything that involves needing to look at paper then the light would be nice.


Im going to have a Crestron Prodigy control system so its more if I want to have a mode that has some lighting on while watching tv/movie. Ill have to spend some time in the automation forum to see how people setup their zones.


Ill look up the build you reference and see what his thoughts were on the lighting.


Thanks!


----------



## Shopview

Looking for a source to manufacture 6 or these speaker columns for me....any suggestions?


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

look for a local cabinet maker/woodworker craftsman.


----------



## SmX

Hello Friends,


its been a long time. I am getting ready to sell my house so I m going to break down the world famous SandManX Movie Theater and sell it.

When I originally designed and built it, I did so making the proper preparations so it could be completely dissasembled in the event I sell the house (room inside a room construction).


I am able to have our employees that break it down, reassemble it in your house if requested. Pictures and dimensions of the SandManX theater are in the first post of this thread.


This will include all the following:


Decorative and Acoustic Wall Panels

Bass traps

Wood work (Columns, Light Trays, and Trim).

Soffits

Fiber optic star ceiling

False Screen wall

Stagger Studded Wall frames

Stage

Riser platform

Carpet


7 Chairs


140" wide 2.40:1 SmX ProMask-Curv with acoustically transparent 2k CineWeave screen surface.


Also all the Klipsch THX Ultra2 speakers


Danley Sub


I have three different projectors as well.


5 Crown XTi amps


plus there is a ton of stuff .




If anyone is interested, please let me know.


Regards,


----------



## tlogan6797

I KNEW I should have waited 6 years before starting my build. I could have had a complete theater in less time than it's taking me to build. And better, too.


----------



## zxlr8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlogan6797*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22214884
> 
> 
> I KNEW I should have waited 6 years before starting my build. I could have had a complete theater in less time than it's taking me to build. And better, too.



Wow...I wonder how much..


----------



## tlogan6797

I'm afraid to even ask. But I'm guessing if you have to ask, you can't afford it.


----------



## snickers1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlogan6797*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22214898
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to even ask. But I'm guessing if you have to ask, you can't afford it.



also is all of it water resistant







....... LOL!!


----------



## zxlr8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlogan6797*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22214898
> 
> 
> I'm afraid to even ask. But I'm guessing if you have to ask, you can't afford it.



No offense but that is such a terrible saying. Even multi-millionaires ask costs. Most of my friends who are well off do not need to ask, but they do because that is how they got wealthy in the first place...being smart with their money.


----------



## tlogan6797




> Quote:
> No offense but that is such a terrible saying.



No offense, but usually when you start out a sentence with "no offense," you're about to say something offensive. It was a joke. Geezy-peazy. Would it have helped if I put smileyface after it?


----------



## zxlr8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlogan6797*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22215012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> No offense but that is such a terrible saying.
> 
> 
> 
> No offense, but usually when you start out a sentence with "no offense," you're about to say something offensive. It was a joke. Geezy-peazy. Would it have helped if I put smileyface after it?
Click to expand...

Well it depends if the person is trying to be offensive I guess. No, I was not. Judging candor is not very easy on the internet. Just know I am being light-hearted as well.


----------



## nickbuol



















There, I posted a couple of smiley faces. One for each of you.... And one for me --->


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22214859
> 
> 
> Hello Friends,
> 
> its been a long time. I am getting ready to sell my house so I m going to break down the world famous SandManX Movie Theater and sell it.
> 
> When I originally designed and built it, I did so making the proper preparations so it could be completely dissasembled in the event I sell the house (room inside a room construction).
> 
> If anyone is interested, please let me know.
> 
> Regards,



Interesting, I am making all preparations to my theatre build so it too can be dissassembled, but only because if I did this it would be to take it with me!


However if I thought that I could re-coup the majority of the cost of a well built system such as what Rueben has I would sell it with the home, giving me the excuse to do it all over again with newer/bigger better stuff!










So Rueben, a question, did the real estate agent suggest this was the best plan (clear it out) or do you have a buyer that doesn't really want/need such a room?


I will tell you why I ask, I have spoken to real state agents that view a room like this a too specialized to be of general interest and that it actually pulls down the marketability of the home. (pools in some areas have the same effect)



BTW, still lovin' my Cinemawide-HD SMX screen!


----------



## nickbuol

I was wondering the same thing Al. I wonder if it is because the theater is in the garage?


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickbuol*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22215109
> 
> 
> I was wondering the same thing Al. I wonder if it is because the theater is in the garage?



Could be part of the reason, I know that anybody that loves their ride as much as a good movie would be torn with such a decision!


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

Sorry to hear the grand old HT is going away - hopefully a buyer comes along to take care of it either in place or relocated.


Where are you moving Ruben? And what is your plan for the next HT?


----------



## tlogan6797




> Quote:
> There, I posted a couple of smiley faces. One for each of you.... And one for me ---> wink.gif



There, you made me chuckle. Thanks.


----------



## damelon

So interesting. I too wonder what the cost would be. I don't know that anyone has before had a pre-built home theater just placed into their house, that would be an interesting thread in and of itself. Watch a theater be torn down (Please photograph this for us!!!) and be put back up again. Would that be a first on here? I haven't seen it done, that's for sure! Someone will be a VERY happy buyer!!


Followup thought: Where are you moving to? Does this mean we should expect a Sandman 2.0 theater build soon????


----------



## Gary Lightfoot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damelon*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22215373
> 
> 
> Does this mean we should expect a Sandman 2.0 theater build soon????



Lets hope so










Gary


----------



## TMcG

Ruben - What are the rough dimensions this room will fit in?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3660#post_22214859
> 
> 
> Hello Friends,
> 
> its been a long time. I am getting ready to sell my house so I m going to break down the world famous SandManX Movie Theater and sell it.



Hope all is well with you. World famous is an understatement.


----------



## nickbuol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22215555
> 
> 
> Ruben - What are the rough dimensions this room will fit in?



From post #1:

"The finished inside room dimensions will be 20' x 16' x 8.5" ceiling"

Add some space for the actual construction and you will have an idea before he responds.


----------



## chinadog

Sucks to sell a place after working you ass off in it for so long, huh? I can relate....but gives me another opportunity to build another and a better one.







Hope all is well with you Ruben. Trying to get to CEDIA again this year through work, maybe I'll see you there again.


Bud


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tlogan6797*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3600_100#post_22215012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Would it have helped if I put smileyface after it?
Click to expand...


For the record. That never helps.


----------



## tbraden32

Any pricing info yet?


----------



## nebrunner




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22218701
> 
> 
> Any pricing info yet?



If you have to ask you can't afford it.


----------



## larryep

that is sad news


----------



## tbraden32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nebrunner*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22218766
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22218701
> 
> 
> Any pricing info yet?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have to ask you can't afford it.
Click to expand...


You have to ask in order to buy...!


If not how in the heck can I write a check or bring my suit case of Ben's with me?


----------



## Al Sherwood




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22220489
> 
> 
> You have to ask in order to buy...!
> 
> If not how in the heck can I write a check or bring my suit case of Ben's with me?



This is very true, only a fool would just say 'I don't care what it costs, just give it to me!'. Besides anyone with that much money would likely just commission their own custom built theatre...


----------



## BIGmouthinDC












IMHO after thinking about this and going back and reviewing the construction details, It would be far easier and cheaper to just strip out the insides of the theater down to the drywall and reassemble inside a new room built to the exact original dimensions. Think about this 16 ft wall over 8 ft tall, first it won't fit in any door except a garage door. It has overlapped double layers of drywall with Green Glue. It will weigh about 750 lbs so loading, unloading and transporting it isn't going to be easy. Then you need a pretty big truck. It would far easier to run down to the store and pick up some faming lumber and drywall and throw together a room. That way it would also fit in someones basement as the inside finishes can probably fit through a door and down a stair.


Also recall that the walls were originally one height with room within a room ceiling joists added at the top. Later it was decided that the room should be taller and the joists removed, Drywall and GG was added to the original garage ceiling and short wall sections fitted on top of the original framed walls. What this means is that the room comes without a ceiling, I know small point but another argument for just starting with a new wall and ceiling built to correct dimensions.


I think Ruben is looking for offers, Anyone buying it, I'm available for hire to *try* to put it back together. I do have a passport.


----------



## tlogan6797




> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by tlogan6797 View Post
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Would it have helped if I put smileyface after it?
> 
> 
> For the record. That never helps.


----------



## desertdome




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_22220656
> 
> 
> Think about this 16 ft wall over 8 ft tall, first it won't fit in any door except a garage door. It has overlapped double layers of drywall with Green Glue. It will weigh about 750 lbs so loading, unloading and transporting it isn't going to be easy.



The wall was actually so heavy that it had to be cut down into sections in order to be installed!


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/1300_100#post_7127738
> 
> 
> 
> Hardest?
> 
> 
> The Heavy work. Like trying to lift a double layered Dywall Wall off the floor and get it in position on Top of blue foam. This was a Stagger Studded Wall that was 16' x 8' that was movable without drywall. We had to double Drywall and GG the outer side first in order to put it against the garage door. Well we figured to lay it flat on the floor, propped up a bit and enough guys could lift it. Well we were Dead wrong. We had 4 guys (I'm a real big dude) and it would not budge. We also had no way to get any lift in position as well. So we had to cut the Wall in sections to put it in position after all that. So from that point on we made all the walls in 8 foot sections.


----------



## MatrixCinelounge

CHAPEAU !!!


Im speechless...Just AMAZIG whats goin on here, and how much work it was.


I wish you and your Family all the best and may the the force be whit you







)


creets from Germany


Stevie
Matrix Cinelounge


----------



## HDLife

So let's see if I understand what's going. I have been trying to contact SMXscreen for a quote in the past 2 months. No one got back to me until last week. He asked me the size and the projector that I will be using with the screen. I replied but haven't heard from him. Then there are people having similar problem and support issues with SMXSCREEN. Now, Ruben has to sell his place? Is there any relationship between the two?


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22566657
> 
> 
> So let's see if I understand what's going. I have been trying to contact SMXscreen for a quote in the past 2 months. No one got back to me until last week. He asked me the size and the projector that I will be using with the screen. I replied but haven't heard from him. Then there are people having similar problem and support issues with SMXSCREEN. Now, Ruben has to sell his place? Is there any relationship between the two?


Just because people are selling their homes it doesn't mean they HAVE to sell their home, some people get bored with their homes after a few years and most certainly after a decade or more. With Ruben I think it's more about being sick of the same ole, same ole. He's pretty adventurous and was actually out here on the west coast playing around in waterfalls and mountains with me for a couple weeks late summer and I think he's just looking for a change of scenery and lack of same weather and mosquitos 364 days a year. I also think SmX evolved into much more than home theater type stuff, not sure since we didn't talk shop too much but I thought it went to more of a commercial screen company several years ago.


----------



## damelon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDLife*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_22566657
> 
> 
> So let's see if I understand what's going. I have been trying to contact SMXscreen for a quote in the past 2 months. No one got back to me until last week. He asked me the size and the projector that I will be using with the screen. I replied but haven't heard from him. Then there are people having similar problem and support issues with SMXSCREEN. Now, Ruben has to sell his place? Is there any relationship between the two?



How are you contacting them, phone or email? (Try both) I called them and talked to Ruben directly, and the sales staff took it from there. They could just be really busy.


----------



## SKINSnCANES

I think it's far more than one poster. I was trying to order one and multiple dealers informed me they had unfulfilled orders for months and warned against ordering. I also had people PM me on here when I said I was interested and we chatted for almost two months as they awaited for unfulfilled orders to come in.


I think if you get a screen, it's not initially defective, then you'll probably not need service over the life of it. And I've heard good things about SmX screens but ya gotta be able to get one...


----------



## J_P_A




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKINSnCANES*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_23081372
> 
> 
> I think it's far more than one poster. I was trying to order one and multiple dealers informed me they had unfulfilled orders for months and warned against ordering. I also had people PM me on here when I said I was interested and we chatted for almost two months as they awaited for unfulfilled orders to come in.
> 
> 
> I think if you get a screen, it's not initially defective, then you'll probably not need service over the life of it. And I've heard good things about SmX screens but ya gotta be able to get one...



Hmmmm.... The two posts you were referring to didn't hang around long


----------



## SKINSnCANES

There's plenty more on the smx thread and Seymour thread. I guess I have to read posts from my email notifications before they're deleted lol


----------



## J_P_A

LOL!


----------



## sold5

Hi,


I'm trying to find out the speaker grill fabric type/ colour Ruben used in this build, but it doesnt seem to be mentioned anywhere in the build thread. I think it would suit my build perfectly.


Anyone know what exactly which fabric grill cloth was used?


Would really appreciate it!


Thanks,


Steve


----------



## mtbdudex

Considering what has happened to SMX and Ruben thread should be locked.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq*  /t/840473/official-smx-theater-solutions-screen-thread/1170#post_23161170
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darbear*  /t/840473/official-smx-theater-solutions-screen-thread/1170#post_23161129
> 
> 
> I am starting a case against Ruben if anyone has filed a report already and has a case number please forward it to me due to the fact that numerous people have been screwed makes it a criminal case not just cival which could mean jail time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got a DA interested?
Click to expand...


----------



## Al Sherwood

So where can I find out what has happened to SMX... ?


Anyway to get additional screen material?


----------



## auburnu008




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_23181423
> 
> 
> So where can I find out what has happened to SMX... ?
> 
> 
> Anyway to get additional screen material?


Check the SMX thread in the screen forum. Nobody is going to hear from them again without the assistance of their lawyer.


----------



## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *auburnu008*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_23181523
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Al Sherwood*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_23181423
> 
> 
> So where can I find out what has happened to SMX... ?
> 
> 
> Anyway to get additional screen material?
> 
> 
> 
> Check the SMX thread in the screen forum. Nobody is going to hear from them again without the assistance of their lawyer.
Click to expand...


??? What happened ??


----------



## marlon1925

pix are gone


----------



## NGiovas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marlon1925*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_23387900
> 
> 
> pix are gone



That's because they were hosted by SMX and SMX is gone.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Many pictures are showing up for me. There have been guys who have downloaded and saved the thread to disk if it ever does really totally disappear.


----------



## NGiovas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_23388975
> 
> 
> Pictures are showing up for me. There have been guys who have downloaded and saved the thread to disk if it ever does really totally disappear.


 

I think he is referring to the pictures of the finished theater from the first thread.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC

Just do a Google image search. there are plenty of the theater out on other sites as it was featured in many articles.


----------



## Mfusick

What made this build so famous ?


----------



## design1stcode2nd

My guess is it was a very nice theater which was made 8 years ago and still looks good today or would have if it were still around.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720_40#post_23389527
> 
> 
> What made this build so famous ?



Ruben was pretty good at showing what was going on in his garage to theater project. He also wasn't afraid to say that looks wacked, tear it out and re do it. He framed the walls and ceiling and decided it was too low, so he ripped it out and added wall extensions, He built square columns and decided he they were too ho hum. ripped those out and replaced with round beauties, He agonized over every detail, (or had his helpers agonize) He found a guy who was good at veneer and staining and you can see the result. He started with a basic frame and went to the first SMX curved screen, He didn't like his sub-woofers and changed them out. The list goes on. At every step he often asked for input from the forum regulars and he got it. He was a champion for the DIY guy and made his screen fabric available at a reasonable price. He had a web site forum mostly devoted to DIY frames. When he started his screen company his theater was the showcase. It was so good other vendors stole some of his images for their sites. His theater was featured in many on-line articles and were attached to his product releases. Bottom line there aren't many threads that have 2 million views.


He was also the underdog, taking on the likes of Stewart who feel their Acoustically Transparent screens are worth 4-5 times as much. Who couldn't like the guy? I bought a screen when AVS had a sale and communicated directly with Ruben. Later I got a screen for client directly from Ruben. As his company grew it became nearly impossible for the average guy to deal directly with him. He put together a dealer network and stopped responding to phone calls and e-mails. Often I heard of complaints of people never hearing back from the listed contacts on his Web site. Then something happened, no one who knows has come forward, people report that they are out their pre-payments with no product.


I saw a January 2013 picture of him and it looked like he had lost a lot of weight. The circumstances of the picture were something I'm sure he regrets. I hope he is well.


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mtbdudex*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3690#post_23180929
> 
> 
> Considering what has happened to SMX and Ruben thread should be locked.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq*  /t/840473/official-smx-theater-solutions-screen-thread/1170#post_23161170
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darbear*  /t/840473/official-smx-theater-solutions-screen-thread/1170#post_23161129
> 
> 
> I am starting a case against Ruben if anyone has filed a report already and has a case number please forward it to me due to the fact that numerous people have been screwed makes it a criminal case not just cival which could mean jail time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've got a DA interested?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Good post Big, like I said earlier out of respect for the good Reuben did this thread should be locked.



Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk


----------



## snickers1

Big said it all for sure and i don't think it could of been put any better... it is a theater that set standard and if look at all the great builds on this forum you will see little pieces of it in just about every build.


i think the Thread should just be locked it is and always will be a great reference.


----------



## NGiovas


+1 on locking this thread.  Preserve it for what it is to the AVS community.


----------



## GetGray

Build thread was cool, theater looked good, I've sold several of his screens over the years. A shame what was done to the brand. Now, as far as i can tell, from first hand experience, Ruben is an outright thief and and according to the detectives, and peer dealers I've spoken too, soon to be a wanted criminal, if not already. Whatever he used to be, he's not now.


----------



## nickbuol

Too bad locking the thread wouldn't have saved the pictures. They were all linked to his website and not stored on AVS, so locking the thread would have still lost them, unfortunately.


----------



## snickers1

here are some th pics he had in the beginning


----------



## TMcG

I have a number of pics myself and I am sure that between all Forum members we could probably reconstitute this entire thread's worth. I have a handful that I can post later for others that visit the site at a later point.



On another note, for those of you who were burned by SMX / Ruben, their former website www.smxscreen.com is currently available for auction purchase through GoDaddy.com: https://auctions.godaddy.com/trpItemListing.aspx?isc=GPPT05K201&ci=76420&domain=smxscreen.com 


I have seen instances where people purchase former defunct company's websites as a landing page for those disaffected by the company and seeking legal recourse. It's a good way to quickly find other folks who may have been burned by SMX but who are otherwise unaffiliated with the AVS Forum and would like to find others to get class certification for a civil case and/or help build a criminal case. Just a thought in case anyone is motivated to buy the domain and get everything legally set up.


----------



## J_P_A

I've got the thread as a .pdf. If someone can host the file I'll be glad to PM it to them. I have a data cap so I can't send it to everyone individually.


----------



## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *J_P_A*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_23393652
> 
> 
> I've got the thread as a .pdf. If someone can host the file I'll be glad to PM it to them. I have a data cap so I can't send it to everyone individually.



I'll put it in my dropbox and share the download link










Email it to me at [email protected]


----------



## nickbuol

Sweet. Thanks guys.


----------



## Mfusick

 https://www.dropbox.com/s/btbf9an1jxrabp2/SandmansHT.pdf 


There you go :


----------



## nickbuol

Thanks Mfusick!


----------



## Mfusick

No prob







I'll try to leave the link active as long as I can. PM me if it does not work.


----------



## rx-8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_23484684
> 
> 
> No prob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try to leave the link active as long as I can. PM me if it does not work.



FYI... I successfully downloaded the file just moments after you made the file available. Thanks for making it available to us all.


-- Bill --


----------



## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/180#post_6635612
> 
> 
> Here are some Updates...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the method we used to run the fibers to the back of each panel. This method was much cleaner looking on the back (even though no one will ever see them).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a Shot of the Front Light Tray. You can see the Star Panels Started going up. Also, Notice the Bass absorbtion in the Front Soffit. The Gap Between the Front Light Tray and Front Soffit is for the Automated Curtain Track (it is an 8" Gap).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Side Soffit (without Light Tray). Notice the bass absorbtion in there as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are 3 Panels up on the ceiling. Notice the Furring strips we used to hang them. 1"x 4"s and 1"x2"s. We used a Brad nailer to tack the Panels to the furring strips. The nails are completely invisable with the lights on. The panels are almost seamless with the lights on. They are completely seamless under Low light. You will also notice, we applied the GoM Fabric to the Side of the Soffit.
> 
> 
> 
> Side Shot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers Off)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers ON)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights OFF, Fibers ON)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay Tuned!



Is someone has the pictures and can load them back up into this thread that would be pretty cool.


The PDF is ok- but it does not do very well with the pictures.


----------



## vikgrao

Here is the dropbox link to the winrar zip file of the whole thread with the original resolution pics as uploaded on the thread. Each of the links are in MHTML format. so in order to view the links either set internet explorer to browse offline or disable internet temporarily on the laptop. I guess you can then open each link scroll and save individual pics you want! Hope this works!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l9s4np1jftknuyf/Sand%20mht.rar


----------



## damelon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_23508204
> 
> 
> Is someone has the pictures and can load them back up into this thread that would be pretty cool.
> 
> 
> The PDF is ok- but it does not do very well with the pictures.



I do have them.... nice benefit for using his theater as my template was that I saved them, and fortunately backed them up. I have 161 pictures from this thread on my NAS here.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Smx*
> 
> Here is the method we used to run the fibers to the back of each panel. This method was much cleaner looking on the back (even though no one will ever see them).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a Shot of the Front Light Tray. You can see the Star Panels Started going up. Also, Notice the Bass absorbtion in the Front Soffit. The Gap Between the Front Light Tray and Front Soffit is for the Automated Curtain Track (it is an 8" Gap).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the Side Soffit (without Light Tray). Notice the bass absorbtion in there as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are 3 Panels up on the ceiling. Notice the Furring strips we used to hang them. 1"x 4"s and 1"x2"s. We used a Brad nailer to tack the Panels to the furring strips. The nails are completely invisable with the lights on. The panels are almost seamless with the lights on. They are completely seamless under Low light. You will also notice, we applied the GoM Fabric to the Side of the Soffit.
> 
> 
> 
> Side Shot
> 
> 
> 
> From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers Off)
> 
> (dont have this photo, but have some other similar photos)
> 
> 
> 
> Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights on, Fibers ON)
> 
> (dont have this photo, but have some other similar photos)
> 
> 
> 
> Same Shot as above, From back of the room (Work Lights OFF, Fibers ON)
> 
> (dont have this photo, but have some other similar photos)


----------



## Mfusick

Would you mind sharing them with me ? I'm Mostly interested in the veneer and wood work stain


----------



## damelon

(removed due to thread silliness)


----------



## nathan_h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SmX*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins#post_6105356
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First off,
> 
> 
> 
> I want to thank all the people who posted incredible tips and techniques in avs that inspired me to get our home theater started. I studied avs and many other resources for over a year and learned a great deal of info. That, plus my building background lead me to get started on our theater.
> 
> 
> 
> I will use this thread as my journal and update it on a daily basis when possible.
> 
> 
> I will post progress pictures, material usage, cost and time. If anyone cares to add any comments, tips or dont forgets for me along the way, please feel free to chime in.
> 
> 
> 
> The space i am using to construct our theater is our 2 car garage which we only used for the past few years to store junk. The garage is constructed with cement walls on 2 sides, the garage door is metal, the back wall and ceiling is drywall and wood studs. The floor is cement.
> 
> 
> 
> The idea is to build a room inside a room. Outside noise is not really an issue due to the quiet neighborhood we are in and the house is a quiet home for my wife and i (no kids). Keeping noise from travelling out the theater is more of a concern, but the garage as is right now seems to keep noise within it especially well when I run power tools at 2 - 3am, but bass will be another story
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> The finished inside room dimensions will be 20' x 16' x 8.5" ceiling
> 
> 
> 
> Construction will be stagger studded walls all around with 5/8" and 1/2" sheet rock doubled layered on each side of the walls. There will also be insulation iside the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> The ceiling will be rsic-1 clips and channel hats with 5/8" and 1/2" sheetrock.
> 
> 
> The ceiling will finish as a fiber optic starfield cieling with 4 random shooting stars.
> 
> 
> 
> The screen will be 140" wide 2.40:1 SmX ProMask-Curv masking screen with the acoustically transparent CineWeave screen surface. First row of seating will be 135" from the screen.
> 
> 
> 
> There will also be a sand filled stage for the front of the theater. There will be a 10" high platform for the rear seating. The seating will be berkline 090's with wedges.
> 
> 
> 
> There will also be soffits containing lighting, vac and conduit to run future wire additions or upgrades all around the theater.
> 
> 
> 
> There will be columns containing side fills and rear surround speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> All lighting will be low voltage.


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## wse


+ Whoa the skills can you do mine plesae


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## ellisr63

AWESOME!!!


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## TMcG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_24631699
> 
> 
> + Whoa the skills can you do mine plesae



I'm not sure if you heard, but Sandman (Ruben) skipped town in a big hurry with a bunch of people's screen payment money while shuttering his company, SMX Screens, practically overnight. No doubt he did some fantastic work, though.


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## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_24632173
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wse*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_24631699
> 
> 
> + Whoa the skills can you do mine plesae
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if you heard, but Sandman (Ruben) skipped town in a big hurry with a bunch of people's screen payment money while shuttering his company, SMX Screens, practically overnight. No doubt he did some fantastic work, though.
Click to expand...


Out of respect for this thread I thought it was discussed to lock it.

To not dig up old wounds.



Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP


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## BIGmouthinDC

I hadn't been following the SMX saga since last fall. I got caught up last night and read about the situation on the SMX screen thread. If you are into soap opera gossip it is an interesting story. Ruben may have been the victim.


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## GetGray

Respectfully, as one on the other end of the phone speaking to him personally up to the moment all the lines were disconnected, trust me, he was no "victim". And it didn't happen overnight. I was a victim however, as well as a list of others literally from all over the world. To the tune of about half mil by my count. Fortunately for me, he "only" stole $4600 from me. I had to eat that prepayment and buy my customer a different screen. Several other dealers I now know had pre-paid orders on very, very expensive 4 way masking systems. Damn shame, I'd have bought the thing before he let it go down the drain.


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## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mtbdudex*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_24632352
> 
> 
> Out of respect for this thread I thought it was discussed to lock it.
> 
> To not dig up old wounds.
> 
> 
> 
> Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP




This is a terrible idea.


Considering this thread has tons of DIY home theater goodness and it's easily got the most views of any on this forum (for a reason) it would be a shame if it got locked, and a detriment to the community. If you look just a couple posts higher you would see the awesome long picture posts that was done very recently and never could have happened if this thread was locked.


The proper solution is probably just stay on topic of building home theaters, in which case this thread has a place here.


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## wse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TMcG*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3720#post_24632173
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if you heard, but Sandman (Ruben) skipped town in a big hurry with a bunch of people's screen payment money while shuttering his company, SMX Screens, practically overnight. No doubt he did some fantastic work, though.



I didn't know he was a crook, I had that experience once with a HiEnd retail Home Cinema Store. The owner left with several millions from down payment from multiple customers! His partner had to file chapter 11.


I wonder if they hunted him down!


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## mtbdudex

When good people turn bad how do you remember them?

This thread and it's originator sure did good for the HT community, does that now somehow payback those he supposedly stole money from?

Yes, I have to say supposedly stole money because I'm not aware he was tried and convicted in a court of law.

Has those facts been made clear here?

Court case #, dates, etc.


There are so many other threads with same and more recent information, this thread alone surely does not define the AVS Forum experience, right?


As to the re posting of those pictures back here, who is the copyright owner of those? Are you sure they are public domain, since it appears Ruben took them down.



Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP


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## Mfusick

I think once you post something publicly on the internet they become public domain, the same as if someone took a picture from a public place like a street or sidewalk. Even if it's you or your home it's legal. Once you post something public on the internet I think it's out there, you can't take that back.


I also doubt the OP took them down intentionally too. It's more likely the image or file hosting site he used lapsed or he failed to pay and his account was cancelled. Something like that seems more likely, it's been a long time. The old AVS did not store pictures they way most posters displayed them.


I still use the







method myself all the time...


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## Cksqurd

I have heard that who ever took picture owns the copyright to it. Put I could be wrong.


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## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cksqurd*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_24636648
> 
> 
> I have heard that who ever took picture owns the copyright to it. Put I could be wrong.



Possibly, but once you share them online the cat's out of the bag. And besides I doubt he is going to come forward and appear and request they get taken down







Sound like people want to find him more than he wants to take the pics down is my guess, I think he will stay hidden and I doubt we hear anything on the subject.


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## Cksqurd

I heard that when Ellen posted the pic from the oscars and posted to twitter,that Bradley cooper took picture and he owned the rights.


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## TMcG

Not to digress, but the use of the copyright imagery falls under Fair Use in many cases. This is probably the best and most straight-forward explanation I've seen on the subject: http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/copyright-fair-use-and-how-it-works-for-online-images/ 


I've had images from my past theaters used by AV dealers with no store or showroom, known as "trunk slammers", in the gallery portion of their website as if my theater was designed and installed by the company in question. This is not allowed as it seeks commercial gain and is a misrepresentation of the imagery. However, if the picture was posted on a design website for general commentary and criticism, Fair Use of the image is allowed, especially since it was published in the public domain and it is "in the public interest".


And for clarity, I didn't mean to start a firestorm with my original comment - only to make the point that the man did great work and it is unfortunate the way things ended up with him and his company and that he is no longer around.


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## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3750#post_24636654
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cksqurd*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_24636648
> 
> 
> I have heard that who ever took picture owns the copyright to it. Put I could be wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly, but once you share them online the cat's out of the bag. And besides I doubt he is going to come forward and appear and request they get taken down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sound like people want to find him more than he wants to take the pics down is my guess, I think he will stay hidden and I doubt we hear anything on the subject.
Click to expand...


No, once you share images they are not public at all!

I had 15 minutes of fame, my image was NASA APOD 2011 August 5 .

I own the copyright to that image, nobody else.

I learned more about copyright law than I ever wanted, including consultation with lawyers.

I authorized a handful of sites to host it, and filed cease and desist to more sites/IP hosters than I care to say.
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap110805.html 


Needless to say who re-posted those copyrighted images of Reuben's HT w/o the permission is taking risk into their own.

AVS Forum management also should examine their risk in this matter.


Stop stealing photos webpage, some might want to read that ...
http://stopstealingphotos.com/


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## ellisr63

Why can't we discuss the Home Theater the thread was made for instead of getting off track, and discussing what he did later, copyright issues, etc?


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## nickbuol

I have always loved this theater build.


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## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nickbuol*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_24637295
> 
> 
> I have always loved this theater build.




I agree










It has 2 million views for a reason.


I also admire his willingness to look at the result of hard work and say it wasn't good enough, tear it out and do it again. That's what makes it special.


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## mtbdudex

What I do like is this thread showed people they also can DIY to build a HT.

PDCA, plan do check act, also widely utilized.

Plan some thing, build it, check how it works, and tweak if needed.




Via Mikes brain/thumb interface, LLAP


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## W00lly

Rubens build thread was one of the first DIY builds that put me on the track to build my own theater. I didn't know I could go 2.35 until he installed one in his theater I was in Awe and really loved the thought of filling the whole screen wall with screen









I liked it so much I purchased a 12' wide 2.35 screen from Ruben when he first went into production and was vary happy with the service and response I received. I'm not sure what happened along the way










There where a bunch more theater build threads that I followed that had a major impact on my design and build so I to am glad that this thread has not been locked as there is a lot of great info in it to be read.


Here are just a few







thanks AVS


Ronnie Jackson : http://www.avsforum.com/t/638024/ronnies-home-theater-construction-begins 


BIGmouthinDC : http://www.avsforum.com/t/683853/big-mouth-in-dcs-beautiful-black-grey-theater 


Craig : http://www.avsforum.com/t/735097/must-create-reedzone-theater-thread 


Chinadog : http://www.avsforum.com/t/549924/blazing-ridge-cinema-construction-has-begun 


Calv1n : http://www.avsforum.com/t/706501/calvins-games-ht-construction-thread 


ejhuzy's : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1105275/ejhuzys-finally-done-thread-pictures-too#post_15478858


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## Mfusick

That's a pretty strong list ^


I remember reading this thread back when it was active and while I wasn't in any position to tackle my own project yet it certainly planted the seed and desire.


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## ebr

Me too. I was building my second room at about the same time Ruben was building his. Took a lot of inspiration and help from it as well as some of the others listed above.


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## Mfusick

You are MB3 EBR right? Mb3 developer and plugin author? I didn't know you are on AVS... Nice


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## ebr

Yes, I actually discovered MB through AVS Forums when I was building my second Theater room back in 06. Then I started talking to Sam and decided to contribute to the project. Once I got started I just got in deeper and deeper.


I don't get out here as much anymore because I'm plenty busy in our own forums







.


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## Mfusick

Where did you learn to do all that ?


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## ebr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3750#post_24726454
> 
> 
> Where did you learn to do all that ?



Do all what?


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## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ebr*  /t/574704/sandmans-home-theater-construction-begins/3700_100#post_24727317
> 
> 
> Do all what?



All the stuff you do for the MB3 project....


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## ebr

I was a computer professional by trade and mostly built development frameworks for use by developers so I'm a geek at heart. I hadn't actually done any programming in probably ten years when I got involved with MB and it was a great way to re-learn all of that stuff with new technologies.


----------

