# Sticky  Ultra HD Blu-ray Has Come to AVS Forum Blu-ray Reviews!



## zigzag666

Ralph,

As always, thanks for all your hard work and effort in doing these reviews.

In this particular case, however - I don't think viewing on the JVC projector allows you to critique the HDR aspects of these discs.

I too have a JVC projector and hope a real JVC 4K (not shifted) Dolby Vision project hits the markets in the next year or so. Until then, I do not think the front projectors can realize the HDR content. 

It will be very interesting to see what comes down the road in OLED/etc 4K HDR flat panels and how fast the pricing will fall. The LG Signature and Vizio Ref units should do an excellent job demonstrating HDR (among other things), but I'm not ready to jump into this game yet. 1st time for me to not be an early adopter. I guess I have too many arrows in the back.....

Best Regards,
J


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## Roudan

oh, my goodness, Ralph, I love this post very much. I have been waiting for someone to introduce me to UHD and also eager to see UHD review. Now you did it. I really appreciate it. I love this forum!!!. first question, at what UHD rating, the UHD picture quality is same as BD? I saw the first UHD only has 72 score. other questions, How is your JVC RS500? It has e-shift technology. Do you happen to compare it to true 4K projector? What HDMI cable do you use for UHD at what length? Thanks Ralph.


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## Mashie Saldana

Ralph, have you tested to connect the UHD player to a legacy HDMI 1.3 system? It would be interesting to see if the Atmos track still will be available when the image is forced to 1080p.


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## CinemaAwakens

What a lovely day


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## Ralph Potts

zigzag666 said:


> Ralph,
> 
> As always, thanks for all your hard work and effort in doing these reviews.
> 
> In this particular case, however - I don't think viewing on the JVC projector allows you to critique the HDR aspects of these discs.
> 
> I too have a JVC projector and hope a real JVC 4K (not shifted) Dolby Vision project hits the markets in the next year or so. Until then, I do not think the front projectors can realize the HDR content.
> 
> It will be very interesting to see what comes down the road in OLED/etc 4K HDR flat panels and how fast the pricing will fall. The LG Signature and Vizio Ref units should do an excellent job demonstrating HDR (among other things), but I'm not ready to jump into this game yet. 1st time for me to not be an early adopter. I guess I have too many arrows in the back.....
> 
> Best Regards,
> J


Greetings,

I agree in theory. I do think that while front projection for the home may not be capable of fully realizing the full potential of what HDR and Dolby Vision offers I believe that at this stage it will allow us the basis necessary to provide enthusiasts with a reasonable expectation of what the format can do. Thanks for reading and for offering your thoughts. 

Regards,


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## Ralph Potts

Mashie Saldana said:


> Ralph, have you tested to connect the UHD player to a legacy HDMI 1.3 system? It would be interesting to see if the Atmos track still will be available when the image is forced to 1080p.


Greetings,

I haven't tried it although I don't see why the Atmos track wouldn't playback at 1080p. 


Regards,


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## kriktsemaj99

When rating the resolution it would be good to have a standard rating (e.g. 2 points) that means it doesn't really look any better than 1080p. However you can't really use the regular BD for that comparison because it may well come from a different master. Somehow you should use the UHD disk but force it to play back in 1080p.

What may happen (as it did when the new lossless audio formats were introduced) is that people see/hear a big improvement in the new discs, but most of that improvement was just better mastering and could have been achieved with the old format. Same with HDR—I'm not convinced it really brings a lot to the table. but some people will see good shadow detail and claim it's a result of HDR when it's really not.


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## pedra12

Hi Ralf,

Thanks for posting. I too have been look forward to the Ultra 4K Blu rays since announced last year. I picked up a Sony 4K tv back in 2014 so unfortunately I won't be able to take advantage of HDR but I am still excited. I did not like the way the Samsung player looked, so I am hoping Sony and the other players will make some announcements soon. I did pick up some movies from Best Buy today (Kingsman, The Martian, and Sicario) and will enjoy the 4k image once I get a player. Keep up the great reviews.


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## mtbdudex

Bragging now are we Ralph? 
Now I have to seriously look at upgrading my basement HT system, which is on my bucket list as a 2017-mid item, and coming fast around the corner.....

Till then, I'll read your reviews and just dream away .....
(my family room 2015 55" Vizio P while 4k UHD is not HDR capable )


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## dnoonie

UHD BD reviews! Wow, awesome! Thanks Ralph!

This isn't an easy task with a moving target but you've got to start somewhere. It helps that you had a good number of titles to start out with that you could compare.

Ralph:
* Is there reference material, other than the reviewed disks, that you used to judge against? 
* If so what was it and how would you rate that materiel? Or, in other words, would you rate that reference material better than the best disk you've already reviewed?

Cheers,


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## Brian Fineberg

Wait wasn't your original review of mad max a 100 for the atmos? Are you saying that the HD Blu Ray atmos is worse?


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## Ralph Potts

Brian Fineberg said:


> Wait wasn't your original review of mad max a 100 for the atmos? Are you saying that the HD Blu Ray atmos is worse?


Greetings,

Brian, that is a typo. It most definitely is a 100 for the Atmos mix. I will amend the article to correct that..


Regards,


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## BrolicBeast

Ralph, to be honest, I base the majority of my sight-unseen movie purchases on your A/V reviews and have been doing so since 2010. Reliability never goes out of style. I am happy you're adding UHD under your purview, as I am getting ready to take the leap to UHD shortly. This is an encouraging article.


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## Dr.Evazan

Interesting that the highest rated film in the bunch was shot and edited in 2.5k, sounds like we have to up our standards if that got 5 stars for resolution. Can't wait to see films like the Dark knight (and Rises) that were shot or scanned at 4k plus resolution, and then retained taht resolution all the way through post (A rarity).


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## Skimanfz1

Could you please indicate at what resolution each movie being reviewed was filmed and/or mastered in. I understand that many of these first releases are not true 4K (or above) through the entire transfer process.


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## Pres2play

When is the release date for these movies?


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## ray0414

Dr.Evazan said:


> Interesting that the highest rated film in the bunch was shot and edited in 2.5k, sounds like we have to up our standards if that got 5 stars for resolution. Can't wait to see films like the Dark knight (and Rises) that were shot or scanned at 4k plus resolution, and then retained taht resolution all the way through post (A rarity).


the consensous amonst UHD disc owners is that smurfs 2 is #1 by a landslide.

Im not sure how Mad Max got rated ahead of smurfs 2, but smurfs is pure 4k all the way through. having seen both, Smurfs is ahead in resolution and its not even close.

I think Ralph just enjoyed Mad Max more and was a little giddy


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## olinda cat

*Gratitude*

Gratitude Brother Ralph!(Gladiator) I am so grateful for your detailed reviews and am excited about the advancement of our shared hobby! I will be waiting for the new Oppo player and the new AVR's that should be introduced midyear.I also bought the new JVC RS-500 and upgraded my Carada from 104"diag. to Carada 120"diag. which maxes out my wall space.I will be hanging on every word of your reviews of the new format films just like I do for your Blu-Ray reviews.By the end of 2016 I should be technologically caught up(moving target)by adding the 4 ceiling speakers ,Oppo player,and new Onkyo,Yamaha,Marantz or Denon AVR W/11powered channels and the removal of the compatibility glitches that are so typical of these early products. Exciting times if the studios and electronic company's make it simple enough for Mr.Joseph Sixpack to see an upgrade path that is both super desirable and fully sorted out.Once again Brother Ralph....Gratitude!


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## mumps

Ralph,
Thanks as always for your reviews. I will be probably purchasing desired titles even though I haven't made the jump to 4K yet (my Panny 65VT50 still looks fabulous) so I've been doing the sound upgrading first.
Can you tell me, if the included BD in these 4K packs, also contain the Atmos track (for ones that did not previously. Mad Max already had an Atmos release but Hancock did not, for example)? Or do I have to buy the player and have it downgrade the 4K pic to my 1080p?
I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this?

Thanks,

Chris


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## Ralph Potts

mumps said:


> Ralph,
> Thanks as always for your reviews. I will be probably purchasing desired titles even though I haven't made the jump to 4K yet (my Panny 65VT50 still looks fabulous) so I've been doing the sound upgrading first.
> Can you tell me, if the included BD in these 4K packs, also contain the Atmos track (for ones that did not previously. Mad Max already had an Atmos release but Hancock did not, for example)? Or do I have to buy the player and have it downgrade the 4K pic to my 1080p?
> I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris


Greetings,

The Blu-ray disc supplied with the Sony titles does not include the Atmos soundmix. They all seem to be the original Blu-ray release which includes either a DTS-HD MA or in the case of the older titles (Hancock for example) Dolby TrueHD.

Regards,


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## Ralph Potts

dnoonie said:


> UHD BD reviews! Wow, awesome! Thanks Ralph!
> 
> This isn't an easy task with a moving target but you've got to start somewhere. It helps that you had a good number of titles to start out with that you could compare.
> 
> Ralph:
> * Is there reference material, other than the reviewed disks, that you used to judge against?
> * If so what was it and how would you rate that materiel? Or, in other words, would you rate that reference material better than the best disk you've already reviewed?
> 
> Cheers,


Greetings,

dnoonie, I only covered the titles supplied to me by the studios. I have discs from Fox and Lionsgate that I picked up. I have a dozen or so that I used as a basis for this evaluation. Of course this medium being new our exposure is very limited at this point. As thing progress and we being to see more and more titles the comparative range will increase.

Regards,


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## cmdrdredd

Pres2play said:


> When is the release date for these movies?



They are all available right now in the US.


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## Patoloco19

I think the review is OK on a technical point, but why are you reviewing using a projection screen and not a TV? and I wanna know how much better it is in comparison to 1080P, is it worth the change? I don't get anything by reading the ratings of each movie, I wanna know how the technology performs, is the difference a huge improvement?


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## Woobieizer

mumps said:


> Ralph,
> Thanks as always for your reviews. I will be probably purchasing desired titles even though I haven't made the jump to 4K yet (my Panny 65VT50 still looks fabulous) so I've been doing the sound upgrading first.
> *Can you tell me, if the included BD in these 4K packs, also contain the Atmos track* (for ones that did not previously. Mad Max already had an Atmos release but Hancock did not, for example)? Or do I have to buy the player and have it downgrade the 4K pic to my 1080p?
> I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris





Ralph Potts said:


> I reached out to all of the studios that announced titles for release in Ultra HD Blu-ray to see about obtaining review screeners. I received titles from Sony and Warner Brothers. They are all catalog titles which I have previously reviewed. I will rate them using the parameters above. *The titles from Sony all include new Dolby Atmos mixes (YES!) so I will offer an Atmos rating for them as well.* To find out my thoughts on the bonus features and films please refer to my previous reviews.


http://www.dolby.com/us/en/experience/dolby-atmos/bluray-and-streaming.html
Dolby Atmos Releases on Blu-ray Disc
A
The Age of Adaline
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (UHD)
American Sniper
B
Bram Stoker's Dracula Supreme Cinema Series
C
Chappie (UHD) 
E
Enchanted Kingdom 
Everest 
The Expendables 3
F
The Fifth Element Supreme Cinema Series
G
The Gallows
Game of Thrones: The Complete First Season
Game of Thrones: The Complete Second Season
Gravity: Special Edition
The Gunman
H
Hancock (UHD) 
The Hunger Games: Mockingjay—Part 1 
I
Insurgent
J
Jupiter Ascending
John Wick
L
Léon: The Professional Supreme Cinema Series
M
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Man From U.N.C.L.E 
Minions 
Mission: Impossible - Rouge Nation 
O
On Any Sunday: The Next Chapter 
P
Pan
Pineapple Express (UHD)
Pixels
R
Roger Waters: The Wall 
S
Salt (UHD)
San Andreas 
Sherlock: The Abominable Bride
Sicario
The Smurfs 2 (UHD)
Step Up All In 
T
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Terminator Genisys 
Transformers: Age of Extinction
U
Unbroken


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## Pres2play

cmdrdredd said:


> They are all available right now in the US.



Thanks, just haven't come across any in the stores.


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## Ralph Potts

Pres2play said:


> Thanks, just haven't come across any in the stores.


Greetings,

Check your local Best buy..


Regards,


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## Naylorman32

so i just noticed on Amazon that they say The Revenant will come out on UHD as well! Can anyone confirm anything?


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## Woobieizer

Naylorman32 said:


> so i just noticed on Amazon that they say The Revenant will come out on UHD as well! Can anyone confirm anything?


https://www.google.com/search?q=UHD release dates&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#tbs=qdr:w&q=UHD+BD+release+dates


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## gratch42

Pres2play said:


> Thanks, just haven't come across any in the stores.


Our BestBuy had ~20 different UHD titles yesterday (2-8 remaining of each) in the area where they used to showcase 3D Bluray. None displayed in the new releases or other areas of the store that I could see.


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## ray0414

Naylorman32 said:


> so i just noticed on Amazon that they say The Revenant will come out on UHD as well! Can anyone confirm anything?


Its already up for pre-order at bestbuy.com


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## Pres2play

Yeap, BB had them in a different part of the store. Must say, this is very exciting. 


Hard to imagine The Martian can get any better than it already is on Bluray, though. 




Oh, and they were out of 4K Samsung players. Of course.


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## Lazarus Dark

Ralph Potts said:


> I am optimistic based upon what I have seen so far and hope that as the year progresses we see more support from hardware manufacturers and quality release from the supporting studios.


Sadly, they've just announced The Force Awakens Bluray release with zero word about UHD Bluray. Which is very disappointing, such a high profile release (THE highest profile?) would have been a great kickstart to the format. Then again, following the Samsung player thread, I feel this tech is not yet ready for mainstream with all of the handshake/hdcp issues and issues like the unplayable menu screen. So I guess its okay that no one is in a hurry to push it.


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## ray0414

Naylorman32 said:


> so i just noticed on Amazon that they say The Revenant will come out on UHD as well! Can anyone confirm anything?


you can actually pre-order it now from bestbuy.com and has an April 19th release!


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/the-rev...al-hd-copy/5059600.p?id=3551565&skuId=5059600


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## ray0414

Pres2play said:


> Yeap, BB had them in a different part of the store. Must say, this is very exciting.
> 
> 
> Hard to imagine The Martian can get any better than it already is on Bluray, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and they were out of 4K Samsung players. Of course.




overall, its definitely better. Theres some reviews of it and the reviewers took note of all the improvements, mostly the color and contrast.



Lazarus Dark said:


> Sadly, they've just announced The Force Awakens Bluray release with zero word about UHD Bluray. Which is very disappointing, such a high profile release (THE highest profile?) would have been a great kickstart to the format. Then again, following the Samsung player thread, I feel this tech is not yet ready for mainstream with all of the handshake/hdcp issues and issues like the unplayable menu screen. So I guess its okay that no one is in a hurry to push it.



Have no fear, the 4k HDR version is on its way according to one of the films creators! JJ Abrams is actually a big fan of the new HDR format according to him.


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/star-wars-producer-dishes-films-867387


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## Dave Vaughn

Great job Ralph.


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## mo949

congratulations Ralph. 

I think many of us avs videophiles would love to see the calibration reports from this brave new setup.


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## Ralph Potts

mo949 said:


> congratulations Ralph.
> 
> I think many of us avs videophiles would love to see the calibration reports from this brave new setup.



Greetings,

Me as well mo! Once calibration tools are available we all look forward to dialing things in. More to come.. 


Regards,


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## MarkMul1

Awesome reviews

I would flip the 1 and 2. Everyone is different and that's why we can leave comments. 

Smurfs 2 is in another league all around and Mad Max is one of my favorite movies and for me to pick Smurfs over it it makes me twitch.


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## Ralph Potts

MarkMul1 said:


> Awesome reviews
> 
> I would flip the 1 and 2. Everyone is different and that's why we can leave comments.
> 
> Smurfs 2 is in another league all around and Mad Max is one of my favorite movies and for me to pick Smurfs over it it makes me twitch.


Greetings,

I essentially agree that it was close enough that it could have gone either way. Decisions decisions... 


Regards,


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## Dave Vaughn

Ralph's just a Smurfist...he doesn't like blue people!


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## ThePrisoner

Great job as usual Ralph! Your my first go to for reviews. My favorite UHD disc so far is Mad max Fury Road. I was in amazement watching it on my set-up vs the 3D version which I really enjoyed but now prefer the 4K HDR version. I'm also getting ready to set an appointment up to get my Samsung JS8500 calibrated for HDR


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## Ralph Potts

ThePrisoner said:


> Great job as usual Ralph! Your my first go to for reviews. My favorite UHD disc so far is Mad max Fury Road. I was in amazement watching it on my set-up vs the 3D version which I really enjoyed but now prefer the 4K HDR version. I'm also getting ready to set an appointment up to get my Samsung JS8500 calibrated for HDR


Greetings,

Sweet! Best of luck and I am glad you're enjoying UHD! 


Regards,


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## SoCalCyclist

Dr.Evazan said:


> Interesting that the highest rated film in the bunch was shot and edited in 2.5k, sounds like we have to up our standards if that got 5 stars for resolution. Can't wait to see films like the Dark knight (and Rises) that were shot or scanned at 4k plus resolution, and then retained taht resolution all the way through post (A rarity).


True but Mad Max looks and sounds amazing. I also have Salt which is all 4k.


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## Doug Blackburn

I find the UHD disc reviews interesting (man, they couldn't have thought of a worse name for the format than the official name "4K UHD Blu-ray" the UHD discs don't play in Blu-ray disc players, none of them should actually contain 4K content either). Bit I am also troubled by the fact that most of the movies released so far come from movies with 2K intermediates, including The Martian. This includes all titles from Warner and Fox so far and some titles from Lionsgate. Sony titles are all from 4K intermediates (so far) and some Lionsgate titles had 4K intermediates (IMBD lists the camera resolution(s) and intermediate resolution). So what would be ESPECIALLY illuminating is not just an evaluation of how the movie looks, but how does the UHD disc look compared to the HD Blu-ray version (see the dumb format name now means you can't just say Blu-ray and have it automatically understood what format you are talking about. If the industry was smart, they would have used DVD 2.0 for Blu-ray, DVD 3.0 for HD 3D discs, and DVD 4.0 for UHD discs along with the color coded boxes)? This would be especially interesting to know when the movie had a 2K intermediate. The amount of work that goes into producing a 2K intermediate is considerable and is very costly. There's no budget to go back and create a new 4K intermediate for UHD discs because that would mean doing the whole movie over again... combine 4K or higher live action with 4K or higher SFX, color grading, editing, everything and anything done to the 2K intermediate would have to be replicated in the 4K intermediate... it's just too expensive to do that for a disc release. So as good as the Fury Road UHD disc might look, the real burning question is how much better does it look than the HD Blu-ray version? Yes, I know, HDR discs might be impossible to compare because the appearance of an HDR disc is going to be too radically different when comparing it to an HD Blu-ray. But at least the non-HDR UHD discs with 2K intermediates could be compared to the HD Blu-ray version to see if the studio really did produce something with more resolution than the 2K intermediate. Warner Bros. released a statement claiming that even though 2K intermediates were used, that they used techniques to enhance resolution and the discs justify the UHD name. But it read like some marketing guy dancing around the truth. The statement never came right out and said whether the UHD discs were legitimately UHD resolution or not. I don't know of any techniques to make a 2K intermediate look like a 4K intermediate. Anyway... any chance some of the UHD discs from Warner or Fox could be compared to the Blu-ray version if any of them are non-HDR (i.e. SDR)? I'm wondering because I haven't gone for the Samsung UHD player yet (only one that seems to be available right now). If the 2K intermediates are going to minimize differences between UHD and Blu-ray versions (without considering HDR of course), it's going to be a while before there are enough "real" UHD titles out there to make the format worth spending money on.


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## Dave Vaughn

Doug,

One of the issues of doing a quick comparison is the the sync times on the JVC are poisonously slow. Furthermore, you have to change picture modes, which is a separate gamma curve...in total, the quick switch takes about 60 seconds to do! I'd love to get 2 65" flat panels side by side in order to direct comparisons. 

I've personally noticed on The Martian, that the resolution is improved. Writing is a bit more legible, but it's not a massive difference. The colors are deeper and have more pop on the UHD version, but it's hard to tell if they're accurate or not because of no test patterns for calibration (yet). The UHD versions do look better than the BD versions (even with the 2K DI's), but I don't think the resolution is the selling point, it's the expanded color palette.


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## Ralph Potts

Dave Vaughn said:


> Doug,
> 
> One of the issues of doing a quick comparison is the the sync times on the JVC are poisonously slow. Furthermore, you have to change picture modes, which is a separate gamma curve...in total, the quick switch takes about 60 seconds to do! I'd love to get 2 65" flat panels side by side in order to direct comparisons.
> 
> I've personally noticed on The Martian, that the resolution is improved. Writing is a bit more legible, but it's not a massive difference. The colors are deeper and have more pop on the UHD version, but it's hard to tell if they're accurate or not because of no test patterns for calibration (yet). The UHD versions do look better than the BD versions (even with the 2K DI's), but I don't think the resolution is the selling point, it's the expanded color palette.


Greetings,

I would agree. As for non HDR encoded discs, I haven't run across a UHD Blu-ray/SDR encoding. Since HDR is one of the formats selling points I can't see a release that wouldn't support it.

All of this is till very new. Once we obtain some proper tools for calibration it will level the viewing playing field.


Regards,


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## sokh1985

Ralph Potts said:


> Greetings,
> 
> I would agree. As for non HDR encoded discs, I haven't run across a UHD Blu-ray/SDR encoding. Since HDR is one of the formats selling points I can't see a release that wouldn't support it.
> 
> All of this is till very new. Once we obtain some proper tools for calibration it will level the viewing playing field.
> 
> 
> Regards,


Well, I even thought that it was a format standard, but apparently that's not the case. 

Anyhow. I was dubious with that new format, but got the K8500 this W-E that I hooked up to my Sony 55X8509C, what a shock ! 

Even though my tv is only receiving 10 bits but the screen is 8bits, the difference is HUGE, mainly thanks to HDR and the large color palette / contrast it gives. 

Got Kingsman, Life of Pi, Mad Max, The Martian, and San Andreas for the moment. 

I'd say San Andreas is the least jaw droppping from what I've seen.

But overall, I'd say the only times i've seen a picture that good was during real IMAX screenings. 


Will read your reviews ralph, like I used to with standard Blu Rays. Keep up the good job


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## Ralph Potts

sokh1985 said:


> Well, I even thought that it was a format standard, but apparently that's not the case.
> 
> Anyhow. I was dubious with that new format, but got the K8500 this W-E that I hooked up to my Sony 55X8509C, what a shock !
> 
> Even though my tv is only receiving 10 bits but the screen is 8bits, the difference is HUGE, mainly thanks to HDR and the large color palette / contrast it gives.
> 
> Got Kingsman, Life of Pi, Mad Max, The Martian, and San Andreas for the moment.
> 
> I'd say San Andreas is the least jaw droppping from what I've seen.
> 
> But overall, I'd say the only times i've seen a picture that good was during real IMAX screenings.
> 
> 
> Will read your reviews ralph, like I used to with standard Blu Rays. Keep up the good job


Greetings,

Great! Thanks.. 

Regards,


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## Chewbacco

OPPO is preparing to enter the UHD arena...I won't be far behind!


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## boondongle

Hello Ralph et al,

Always enjoy reading your trusted reviews. 

I would like your opinion of HDR10 (or Dolby) vs Propietary Manufacturer HDR implementations.

I've got a 2014 Sony 65x950B that has a phenomenal picture to my eyes. However it uses Sony's propietary X-Tended Range Pro HDR. It will not apparently be supporting HDR10 or Dolby.

At some point I'll be getting a UHD 4K Player - but will build up my library first. I'll get the other benefits of UHD (resolution and sound) but not the HDR as intended by the filmmaker (right?).

So what's your opinion, if you have one, on how native vs proprietary HDR will compare?

Thanks,
Shawn


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## ajedrezz

boondongle said:


> Hello Ralph et al,
> 
> Always enjoy reading your trusted reviews.
> 
> I would like your opinion of HDR10 (or Dolby) vs Propietary Manufacturer HDR implementations.
> 
> I've got a 2014 Sony 65x950B that has a phenomenal picture to my eyes. However it uses Sony's propietary X-Tended Range Pro HDR. It will not apparently be supporting HDR10 or Dolby.
> 
> At some point I'll be getting a UHD 4K Player - but will build up my library first. I'll get the other benefits of UHD (resolution and sound) but not the HDR as intended by the filmmaker (right?).
> 
> So what's your opinion, if you have one, on how native vs proprietary HDR will compare?
> 
> Thanks,
> Shawn


HDR has no native standard, no owner whatsoever, it's just a video processing. Anybody do it the way they like it. I actually own a proprietary HDR processing as well, without metadata.


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## BADBOY125

So far I have Batman vs Superman and Xmen. Looking to make my list bigger. I use my xbox one S as the 4k player


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## Marv-O

Thanks for the great reviews Ralph! Just wondering if there are any plans on reviewing Man of Steel in 4k UHD? I'm undecided if I should upgrade my blu-ray.


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## Ralph Potts

Marv-O said:


> Thanks for the great reviews Ralph! Just wondering if there are any plans on reviewing Man of Steel in 4k UHD? I'm undecided if I should upgrade my blu-ray.


Greetings,

Thanks Marv. 

I don't have plans for coverage, however I have heard good things about it from others. If you really like the movie then I would say, go for it. 


Regards,


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## ALtlOff

Just as an FYI for everyone, Best Buy is currently showing pricing for almost all but the newest UHD releases at $19.99 for the holiday weekend.
I'm definitely talking advantage of this.


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## jt323bd

Do all UHD blurays that are produced with HDR have HDR? Or are there multiple productions, such that HDR is only available on some of them. I cant figure out how to tell whether it has HDR unless its visible on the box image.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## Plutotype

What is the test display of the reviewer to do reviews of UHD blu-rays? ZD9 or E6/B6?


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## maximuslcd

Thank you so much for all the info, as a new 4k display owner and I believe my wife is giving me a 4k player for christmas I will be keeping an eye on this thread for your expert reviews!


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## Protan71

Hurry up and Wait



Spend a ton of money for 4k hdr, atmos, dtsx system, and next thing you know it will be July for the next 4k atmos movie I want to see(Kong) and after that it's even bleaker...........WTF


----------



## JeffR1

*UHD Blu-ray Billy Lynn's Long Half Time Walk*

Just picked up an UHD Blu-ray player and was peeping at that version, I wanted to see just what 60fps looked like.
Looked pretty much the same as if someone had cranked up the Frame Interpolation to the max, it looked like DimtriRender but with no halo artifacts, not that DR is bad for halo artifacts.
Right before they all get into the limo, look at the trees in the back ground, the UHD version makes the trees look real, the regular Blu-ray suffers here a lot, there just isn't the fine detail to render the leaves and branches properly. What makes it even worse is the low frame rate of the Blu-ray, it's an absolute mess.

Another scene where the high frame rate cleans things up is the pan of the head stones _ nice and clean.
Again, the Blu-ray is an just a mess here. The low frame rate causes the stones to flicker _ I had to look away. 

Like, really, the director intended it to be that way _ a big juddery mess, I don't how any one can tolerate that. 

Even if the story is bad, I don't care, I'm really looking forward to watching this at 60fps at 4K _ no more fuzzy tree leaves !


----------



## jphillips63

Ralph,

Is there any chance of you putting together a tiered list of UHD movies as you had done with the Bluray editions? 
I've upgraded my AVR, TV and UHD player and now I'm seeking the absolute best of the best UHD movies available. Your list of the bluray movies was of great use over the years. So I'm hopeful that you'll do the same for the UHD movies now. 

James


----------



## Ralph Potts

jphillips63 said:


> Ralph,
> 
> Is there any chance of you putting together a tiered list of UHD movies as you had done with the Bluray editions?
> I've upgraded my AVR, TV and UHD player and now I'm seeking the absolute best of the best UHD movies available. Your list of the bluray movies was of great use over the years. So I'm hopeful that you'll do the same for the UHD movies now.
> 
> James


Greetings,

I have been considering this James, and plan on putting a list together in the near future. Stay Tuned! 


Regards,


----------



## JeffR1

*"The Great Wall" UHD*

Even though there doesn't seem to be a lot of great things said about "The Great Wall", I am looking forward to getting this in UHD.
Generally when the critics complain about a movie, I usually like them. 

Even if the story is said to be shallow, I think the cinematography in 2160p will make up for any bad story lines.


----------



## Ralph Potts

JeffR1 said:


> Even though there doesn't seem to be a lot of great things said about "The Great Wall", I am looking forward to getting this in UHD.
> Generally when the critics complain about a movie, I usually like them.
> 
> Even if the story is said to be shallow, I think the cinematography in 2160p will make up for any bad story lines.



Greetings,

The Blu-ray review is posted.. 


Regards,


----------



## Teremei

What are a few of the absolute best show piece 4K UHD discs? I see Planet Earth II got 100 PQ. I'm looking for something that has amazing demo quality. With great show off of HDR since I just got a new 75x940d which can get 3 times as bright as my OLED.


----------



## Teremei

ThePrisoner said:


> Great job as usual Ralph! Your my first go to for reviews. My favorite UHD disc so far is Mad max Fury Road. I was in amazement watching it on my set-up vs the 3D version which I really enjoyed but now prefer the 4K HDR version. I'm also getting ready to set an appointment up to get my Samsung JS8500 calibrated for HDR


Wow you really like the UHD version? I've heard a few people say the colors didn't pop as much as just the BD. That is def my favorite movie maybe I'll give it a try.


----------



## ThePrisoner

Teremei said:


> ThePrisoner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great job as usual Ralph! Your my first go to for reviews. My favorite UHD disc so far is Mad max Fury Road. I was in amazement watching it on my set-up vs the 3D version which I really enjoyed but now prefer the 4K HDR version. I'm also getting ready to set an appointment up to get my Samsung JS8500 calibrated for HDR
> 
> 
> 
> Wow you really like the UHD version? I've heard a few people say the colors didn't pop as much as just the BD. That is def my favorite movie maybe I'll give it a try.
Click to expand...

The UHD has a more earthy tone unlike the BD, which has a yellow tone. The HDR is questionable as a few effects, such as flames, look a little cartoonish to some. I enjoy the UHD a lot more.


----------



## Teremei

ThePrisoner said:


> The UHD has a more earthy tone unlike the BD, which has a yellow tone. The HDR is questionable as a few effects, such as flames, look a little cartoonish to some. I enjoy the UHD a lot more.


I was at best buy and even the pics on the box look sort of earthy and more natural. I enjoy the oversaturated look so in my case, my BD+3D is probably the best version for me, which I already own. Now I'm just looking for something 4k with vibrant poppy colors and great HDR.


----------



## JeffR1

Teremei said:


> What are a few of the absolute best show piece 4K UHD discs? I see Planet Earth II got 100 PQ. I'm looking for something that has amazing demo quality. With great show off of HDR since I just got a new 75x940d which can get 3 times as bright as my OLED.


 My projector doesn't have HDR, but I think the funeral scene from "The Great Wall" would be great.


----------



## MDJAK

Hi, Ralph. I am a bit of a Johnny-come-lately and noob so pardon my question if it's been answered before.

First, thank you for your reviews and your hard work. 

I just finished building a media room and have the Marantz 8802a along with 11 channels plus 2 subs. Among those are 4 ceiling speakers. 

I've just started to buy UHD Bluray disks. 

Should an Atmos disk say 7.1 or 11? Are the ceiling speakers not directional, if that's the right word, or discrete channels? 

Also, I note the 8802a has two inputs (outputs?) for front height speakers that I'm currently not using.

Would an Atmos disk play out of all 13 if I were using those? If so, should the disk say 13.1 for the soundtrack?

I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this question.

Thank you.
Mark


----------



## Selden Ball

MDJAK said:


> Hi, Ralph. I am a bit of a Johnny-come-lately and noob so pardon my question if it's been answered before.
> 
> First, thank you for your reviews and your hard work.
> 
> I just finished building a media room and have the Marantz 8802a along with 11 channels plus 2 subs. Among those are 4 ceiling speakers.
> 
> I've just started to buy UHD Bluray disks.
> 
> Should an Atmos disk say 7.1 or 11? Are the ceiling speakers not directional, if that's the right word, or discrete channels?
> 
> Also, I note the 8802a has two inputs (outputs?) for front height speakers that I'm currently not using.
> 
> Would an Atmos disk play out of all 13 if I were using those? If so, should the disk say 13.1 for the soundtrack?
> 
> I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this question.
> 
> Thank you.
> Mark


Mark,

Your questions probably would be best asked in the thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version.html which is a sticky at the top of the subforum http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/


----------



## Ralph Potts

MDJAK said:


> Hi, Ralph. I am a bit of a Johnny-come-lately and noob so pardon my question if it's been answered before.
> 
> First, thank you for your reviews and your hard work.
> 
> I just finished building a media room and have the Marantz 8802a along with 11 channels plus 2 subs. Among those are 4 ceiling speakers.
> 
> I've just started to buy UHD Bluray disks.
> 
> Should an Atmos disk say 7.1 or 11? Are the ceiling speakers not directional, if that's the right word, or discrete channels?
> 
> Also, I note the 8802a has two inputs (outputs?) for front height speakers that I'm currently not using.
> 
> Would an Atmos disk play out of all 13 if I were using those? If so, should the disk say 13.1 for the soundtrack?
> 
> I apologize if this is not the correct place to ask this question.
> 
> Thank you.
> Mark





Selden Ball said:


> Mark,
> 
> Your questions probably would be best asked in the thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-dolby-atmos-thread-home-theater-version.html which is a sticky at the top of the subforum http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/


Greetings,

Mark, Selden has provided the link to the thread that should address your questions. Let me know if I can be of any further help.


Regards,


----------



## Jeff Goldman

*Overall - Disappointing so far*

I went over and above (great price @ $1699) for an LG B6 OLED. I paired that with a XBox One S (quite a bit of XBox One and 360 content) for UHD HDR Playback. I also picked up a Vizio SB4451-C0 for surround. I picked a bunch of 4K UHD discs with Blu-Rays included: (All $20 or less so only a slight premium over Blu Ray alone)
Star Trek into Darkness
Lucy
John Wick 1
Hunger Games (no HDR)
Hunger Games Catching Fire (no HDR)
Bourne Identity
Of the 6 I watched only 2 (John Wick and Bourne Identity) showed noticeable differences between the Blu Ray and 4K UHD HDR versions of the films. That being said, the true test (for the non Videophile) is did my wife notice a difference and the answer is a resounding NO. The only time she has noticed a difference in video is the jump from a CRT to a 1080P LCD (way back in 2008) and when we went from 4K TV (a 2015 Vizio 
M60-C3 with Full Array Local Dimming) to the LG OLED. It looks spectacular even when viewing upscaled 720P/1080P content. It actually makes lower quality video (480P or a bad 720 stream) look a little worse. So, for right now, 4K content still has a long way to go to make it worth the price premium that Hollywood wants for its content. I believe that 4K mastering is the way to go even they downscale it to a 1080P Blu Ray. If the average 4K UHD video comes down to under $20 that will make it more mainstream.


----------



## Toe

Hi Ralph! 

Was just curious if you had a reference list of the top 10 or 20 best looking UHD titles or something similar? I'm looking to add a few more titles (only have about 5 right now) and was just curious if you had a best of type list for PQ in particular?

Also, is there any sort of resource anywhere that you know of that gives the nits info on a title by title basis?


----------



## BrolicBeast

Toe said:


> Hi Ralph!
> 
> Was just curious if you had a reference list of the top 10 or 20 best looking UHD titles or something similar? I'm looking to add a few more titles (only have about 5 right now) and was just curious if you had a best of type list for PQ in particular?
> 
> Also, is there any sort of resource anywhere that you know of that gives the nits info on a title by title basis?



Ralph is already on it!


http://www.avsforum.com/best-uhd-blu-rays-2017/ 

There is a website that accurately lists nits...It came up as part of the intensity mapping discussion on the Lumagen Pro thread. I don't remember what the site is though.


----------



## Toe

BrolicBeast said:


> Ralph is already on it!
> 
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/best-uhd-blu-rays-2017/
> 
> There is a website that accurately lists nits...It came up as part of the intensity mapping discussion on the Lumagen Pro thread. I don't remember what the site is though.


Much appreciated my friend!  Hoping I can track down Blade Runner at some point. I seem to keep missing it.

I'll track down that list on the Lumagen Pro thread. Thanks again.


----------



## Ralph Potts

Toe said:


> Hi Ralph!
> 
> Was just curious if you had a reference list of the top 10 or 20 best looking UHD titles or something similar? I'm looking to add a few more titles (only have about 5 right now) and was just curious if you had a best of type list for PQ in particular?
> 
> Also, is there any sort of resource anywhere that you know of that gives the nits info on a title by title basis?





BrolicBeast said:


> Ralph is already on it!
> 
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/best-uhd-blu-rays-2017/
> 
> There is a website that accurately lists nits...It came up as part of the intensity mapping discussion on the Lumagen Pro thread. I don't remember what the site is though.





Toe said:


> Much appreciated my friend!  Hoping I can track down Blade Runner at some point. I seem to keep missing it.
> 
> I'll track down that list on the Lumagen Pro thread. Thanks again.



Greetings,

Hey guys, thanks for checking in. BB, thanks for the assist on Todd's question. I have recently been adding the NITS info on reviews (in the details section). I will also be posting my annual Best Blu-rays (2017) list next month. Stay tuned! 


Regards,


----------



## Teremei

Thanks for your work Ralph. Your numbered rating for just the picture aspect is very valuable and sets you apart to other reviews. I always look to your reviews to see if an UHD update to one of my favorite movies is worth buying.


----------



## jorgebetancourt

Hi guys.. When buying an UHD movie how do I know if it was mastered at 1000 nits or 4000 nits.. I'm kind of guessing which curve I should be using for each movie I have one for 1000 and 4000 on my RS-520.. Thank you.


----------



## ALtlOff

Snatched up a Sony X-800 while BB has the referb's, and even doing HDR to SD conversion, there is an absolute benefit between the UHD & BR versions.
Did a back and forth with Oblivion and Starship Troopers over the weekend, while Starship Troopers had it's hits and misses (most of the live action suffered, the CGI had a phenomenal look to it), Oblivion was really good overall, noticeably brighter and even extra colors, with a good subtle Atmos soundtrack.
Close Encounters and Serenity are up for next weekend.


----------



## LibertasMan

@Ralph Potts 
(And anyone else who can provide an applicable answer)

I'm hoping you'll read this here. I sent you a "conversation" invitation about this 5-6 days ago. I know sometimes we members do not actually get notified of such things, so I'm trying this here as well.

Hi Ralph.

Sorry to bother you. But I can think of no other way/source to ask this question. Your time to read and reply is immensely appreciated.

I am very interested in acquiring the recently released UHD disc of The Thing.
However, it is in HDR10 only. I tend to prefer DV.
The review for this new release on highdefdigest states, "No doubt, there will be another 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray release of this film down the line - maybe with Dolby Vision or HDR10+ and we’ll have to reassess the whole thing again."
If that is truly the case, then perhaps I should wait.
So I ask you: Do you know of any such instances so far? I. e., of a film getting a UHD release with one format, then getting another with another format?
I find it hard to believe that (even with how money-grubbing some media entities are) this would be done.
Please let me know what you think of this. So I can make a more informed decision about whether or not to buy this UHD disc.

Again, your time to do so is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.


----------



## puddy77

LibertasMan said:


> @Ralph Potts
> (And anyone else who can provide an applicable answer)
> 
> I'm hoping you'll read this here. I sent you a "conversation" invitation about this 5-6 days ago. I know sometimes we members do not actually get notified of such things, so I'm trying this here as well.
> 
> Hi Ralph.
> 
> Sorry to bother you. But I can think of no other way/source to ask this question. Your time to read and reply is immensely appreciated.
> 
> I am very interested in acquiring the recently released UHD disc of The Thing.
> However, it is in HDR10 only. I tend to prefer DV.
> The review for this new release on highdefdigest states, "No doubt, there will be another 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray release of this film down the line - maybe with Dolby Vision or HDR10+ and we’ll have to reassess the whole thing again."
> If that is truly the case, then perhaps I should wait.
> So I ask you: Do you know of any such instances so far? I. e., of a film getting a UHD release with one format, then getting another with another format?
> I find it hard to believe that (even with how money-grubbing some media entities are) this would be done.
> Please let me know what you think of this. So I can make a more informed decision about whether or not to buy this UHD disc.
> 
> Again, your time to do so is greatly appreciated.
> Thank you.


Off the top of my head, I can think of only one: Labyrinth. And that's 5 years between the two. And another studio. So I'd recommend getting it now and enjoy it. If another one comes out in 5 years, worry about it then.


----------



## Ralph Potts

Greetings,



LibertasMan said:


> @Ralph Potts
> (And anyone else who can provide an applicable answer)
> 
> I'm hoping you'll read this here. I sent you a "conversation" invitation about this 5-6 days ago. I know sometimes we members do not actually get notified of such things, so I'm trying this here as well.
> 
> Hi Ralph.
> 
> Sorry to bother you. But I can think of no other way/source to ask this question. Your time to read and reply is immensely appreciated.
> 
> I am very interested in acquiring the recently released UHD disc of The Thing.
> However, it is in HDR10 only. I tend to prefer DV.
> The review for this new release on highdefdigest states, "No doubt, there will be another 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray release of this film down the line - maybe with Dolby Vision or HDR10+ and we’ll have to reassess the whole thing again."
> If that is truly the case, then perhaps I should wait.
> So I ask you: Do you know of any such instances so far? I. e., of a film getting a UHD release with one format, then getting another with another format?
> I find it hard to believe that (even with how money-grubbing some media entities are) this would be done.
> Please let me know what you think of this. So I can make a more informed decision about whether or not to buy this UHD disc.
> 
> Again, your time to do so is greatly appreciated.
> Thank you.





puddy77 said:


> Off the top of my head, I can think of only one: Labyrinth. And that's 5 years between the two. And another studio. So I'd recommend getting it now and enjoy it. If another one comes out in 5 years, worry about it then.


I would have to agree with @puddy77. Sorry I missed your private message! I don't get notifications for them for some reason.


Regards,


----------



## Panson

puddy77 said:


> Off the top of my head, I can think of only one: Labyrinth. And that's 5 years between the two. And another studio. So I'd recommend getting it now and enjoy it. If another one comes out in 5 years, worry about it then.


The Thing (1982), maybe in 2031 or thereabouts for the 2032 50th Anniversary. Gee, by then, we may know if 8K's made anymore inroads.


----------



## LibertasMan

puddy77 said:


> Off the top of my head, I can think of only one: Labyrinth. And that's 5 years between the two. And another studio. So I'd recommend getting it now and enjoy it. If another one comes out in 5 years, worry about it then.





Ralph Potts said:


> I would have to agree with @puddy77. Sorry I missed your private message! I don't get notifications for them for some reason.





Panson said:


> The Thing (1982), maybe in 2031 or thereabouts for the 2032 50th Anniversary. Gee, by then, we may know if 8K's made anymore inroads.


Thanks folks!
Thanks puddy77 for the specific instance.
Ralph, is there an account setting that maybe needs to be adjusted for you to get private message ("conversation") notifications? I don't know. Just a suggestion for something to check. Thanks for replying here, anyway.
Good line Panson!

I figured it was unlikely to happen frequently.
I think you're all right, I will go ahead and get it now.

I just hope the HDR10, as opposed to DV, doesn't let me down. The Blade Runner Final Cut UHD disc is in HDR10 as well---and it appears a bit excessively noisy to me at times. Particularly in the fog out of which the unicorn appears during the daydream scene---it seems to be populated with tiny black specks. As I have stated in other posts, I am familiar with normal film grain of various periods of cinema, but this seems excessive. Don't get me wrong, it still looks excellent for the most part.
The Shout Factory ltd edition steelbook bluray (from a 4k scan) of The Thing was not very good to my eyes on my tv. As I've mentioned in other posts, the Norwegian's blue coat at the start in the helicopter and one or more night exterior shots were really egregious. The coat had white specks throughout it and so did the night sky on one or more exterior shots (when the sky should've been black). So I really hope this UHD HDR10 image doesn't disappoint on my tv.
E.g., I just viewed the UHD disc of Dr Strangelove. It is HDR10. It looked excessively noisy in a lot of faces, etc. It didn't look much (if any) better than my tv does with most B/W film images---be they via streaming or blurays.
This time I tried:
various adjustments to sharpness on my tv (TCL 55R625) and my player (Panasonic ub820), and the mosquito NR on the player, and turning the HDR optimizer on/off on the player. And different HDR and Brightness settings on my tv. All to no avail.
Do you think I should try adjusting the Tone Curve (white/black) on my player? and/or the System Gamma on my player? Do you think one or both might help?
Please reply with any comments/advice on these questions I just asked. Thanks very much if so.

Anyway, I think I have to take the chance with The Thing. So I'll go ahead and buy it.

Thanks again!


----------



## puddy77

LibertasMan said:


> I just hope the HDR10, as opposed to DV, doesn't let me down. The Blade Runner Final Cut UHD disc is in HDR10 as well---and it appears a bit excessively noisy to me at times. Particularly in the fog out of which the unicorn appears during the daydream scene---it seems to be populated with tiny black specks. As I have stated in other posts, *I am familiar with normal film grain of various periods of cinema, but this seems excessive*. Don't get me wrong, it still looks excellent for the most part.
> The Shout Factory ltd edition steelbook bluray (from a 4k scan) of The Thing was not very good to my eyes on my tv. As I've mentioned in other posts, the Norwegian's blue coat at the start in the helicopter and one or more night exterior shots were really egregious. The coat had white specks throughout it and so did the night sky on one or more exterior shots (when the sky should've been black). So I really hope this UHD HDR10 image doesn't disappoint on my tv.
> E.g., I just viewed the UHD disc of Dr Strangelove. It is HDR10. It looked excessively noisy in a lot of faces, etc. It didn't look much (if any) better than my tv does with most B/W film images---be they via streaming or blurays.
> This time I tried:
> various adjustments to sharpness on my tv (TCL 55R625) and my player (Panasonic ub820), and the mosquito NR on the player, and turning the HDR optimizer on/off on the player. And different HDR and Brightness settings on my tv. All to no avail.
> Do you think I should try adjusting the Tone Curve (white/black) on my player? and/or the System Gamma on my player? Do you think one or both might help?
> Please reply with any comments/advice on these questions I just asked. Thanks very much if so.
> 
> Anyway, I think I have to take the chance with The Thing. So I'll go ahead and buy it.
> 
> Thanks again!


Your opinion of what is normal grain and what is excessive is just that: your opinion. It seems you don't like grain. It's ok. Lots of people don't. But it's the nature of the medium. 4k scans of 35mm film usually resolves all the resolution of the grain. And HDR can actually make it more noticeable than before. That's why digital noise reduction is a thing, and a common complaint among UHD enthusiasts. I don't think there's anything you can do except get used to it.

Oh, and HDR10 vs DV has nothing to do with DNR. It can be applied in either case. If you haven't seen the Terminator 2 UHD disc, it is scrubbed to death with DNR, and it is HDR10. 

I know it's bad manners to link to another forum, but here's a list of DNR discs you might want to check out if you don't like grain.


----------



## LibertasMan

puddy77 said:


> Your opinion of what is normal grain and what is excessive is just that: your opinion. It seems you don't like grain. It's ok. Lots of people don't. But it's the nature of the medium. 4k scans of 35mm film usually resolves all the resolution of the grain. And HDR can actually make it more noticeable than before. That's why digital noise reduction is a thing, and a common complaint among UHD enthusiasts. I don't think there's anything you can do except get used to it.
> 
> Oh, and HDR10 vs DV has nothing to do with DNR. It can be applied in either case. If you haven't seen the Terminator 2 UHD disc, it is scrubbed to death with DNR, and it is HDR10.
> 
> I know it's bad manners to link to another forum, but here's a list of DNR discs you might want to check out if you don't like grain.


We'll have to agree to disagree about your estimation of my alleged dislike of film grain---and the validity of my opinion of what comprises normal grain. I have 40 years experience as a film aficionado. I honestly do not dislike film grain---regardless of the film's vintage.
I think what I am seeing is better described as noise. On some faces, etc., sometimes the specks even appear to "dance" slightly.
When I view a DV UHD disc, I don't encounter this issue. Except in very isolated areas---and only rarely. The Shining and 2001 and Apocalypse Now don't exhibit this---they are all DV. Yet they still have normal film grain.
...And I happen to like that grain.

But thanks for your reply anyway.

As always, all helpful replies appreciated to my original post above (#86). Sincere thanks.


----------



## puddy77

LibertasMan said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree about your estimation of my alleged dislike of film grain---and the validity of my opinion of what comprises normal grain. I have 40 years experience as a film aficionado. I honestly do not dislike film grain---regardless of the film's vintage.
> I think what I am seeing is better described as noise. On some faces, etc., sometimes the specks even appear to "dance" slightly.
> When I view a DV UHD disc, I don't encounter this issue. Except in very isolated areas---and only rarely. The Shining and 2001 and Apocalypse Now don't exhibit this---they are all DV. Yet they still have normal film grain.
> ...And I happen to like that grain.
> 
> But thanks for your reply anyway.
> 
> As always, all helpful replies appreciated to my original post above (#86). Sincere thanks.


Sure. I agree to disagree on your acceptance of film grain. But comparing different films for their amount of grain means nothing. Not only are film stocks different from film to film, but grain can vary depending on how it's shot, and countless other variables. There is no such thing as normal film grain, even when you're comparing the films of the notoriously exacting Kubrick. You can only compare the same film to different iterations of itself. And in the case of DV vs HDR10, I think the only experiment you can make is to compare the HDR10 disc of Labyrinth to the DV one. But then, you also have to take into consideration compression encoding, bitrate differences, etc... Here's a good review trying to do just that. Or if you have a player that can turn off the DV layer, try comparing the two versions on the same disc.


----------



## Panson

LibertasMan said:


> Thanks folks!....
> 
> ....Good line Panson!....
> 
> ....This time I tried:
> various adjustments to sharpness on my tv (TCL 55R625) and my player (Panasonic ub820), and the mosquito NR on the player, and turning the HDR optimizer on/off on the player. And different HDR and Brightness settings on my tv. All to no avail.
> Do you think I should try adjusting the Tone Curve (white/black) on my player? and/or the System Gamma on my player? Do you think one or both might help?
> *Please reply with any comments/advice on these questions I just asked. Thanks very much if so.*
> 
> Anyway, I think I have to take the chance with The Thing. So I'll go ahead and buy it.
> 
> Thanks again!


Usually when I read something like this I think of HDMI *cable or settings*. Trying a new or different HDMI cable. Rechecking settings, what's doing the video processing, display or player? Conflict 'tween the two? If AVR's in the chain, got it on passthrough for the aforementioned?

Sounds like you've been to hell and back. Hope things get solved shortly. Good luck.


----------



## LibertasMan

Panson said:


> Usually when I read something like this I think of HDMI *cable or settings*. Trying a new or different HDMI cable. Rechecking settings, what's doing the video processing, display or player? Conflict 'tween the two? If AVR's in the chain, got it on passthrough for the aforementioned?
> 
> Sounds like you've been to hell and back. Hope things get solved shortly. Good luck.


Thanks again.
Thanks for the well wishes.
Sorry for the delay in replying.

I don't think it's my HDMI cable. It works great with Dolby Vision discs, as far as I can tell.
Whatever is doing the processing (player or tv) is working great with DV.

There's no AVR in the chain.

I'm going to watch a recently produced film, Jojo Rabbit---which is also only in HDR10. That is the only recently produced film I have in UHD that isn't in DV. The only other recent one I have in UHD is Joker---and it is DV.
When I view Jojo, I should be able to tell if there's a glitch somewhere or if the problem only presents itself with older film material. I.e., maybe the player (Panasonic ub820) or the tv (tcl 55r625) is over-accentuating the grain and making it look more like noise only with older films. (Again, Strangelove's noise even appears to dance slightly sometimes on their faces/other skin.) Viewing Jojo should help determine that, I think. I hope.

Now I've got The Thing and A Clockwork Orange 4k uhd's on the way. Unfortunately, they are both HDR10 only. So I hope they look good to me when I get them! I'm really disappointed that they didn't use DV for ACO---like they did for 2001 and The Shining! Oh well. We'll see what happens.

Thanks.


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## Panson

LibertasMan said:


> Thanks again.
> Thanks for the well wishes.
> Sorry for the delay in replying.
> 
> I don't think it's my HDMI cable. It works great with Dolby Vision discs, as far as I can tell.
> Whatever is doing the processing (player or tv) is working great with DV.
> 
> There's no AVR in the chain.
> 
> I'm going to watch a recently produced film, Jojo Rabbit---which is also only in HDR10. That is the only recently produced film I have in UHD that isn't in DV. The only other recent one I have in UHD is Joker---and it is DV.
> When I view Jojo, I should be able to tell if there's a glitch somewhere or if the problem only presents itself with older film material. I.e., maybe the player (Panasonic ub820) or the tv (tcl 55r625) is over-accentuating the grain and making it look more like noise only with older films. (Again, Strangelove's noise even appears to dance slightly sometimes on their faces/other skin.) Viewing Jojo should help determine that, I think. I hope.
> 
> Now I've got The Thing and A Clockwork Orange 4k uhd's on the way. Unfortunately, they are both HDR10 only. So I hope they look good to me when I get them! I'm really disappointed that they didn't use DV for ACO---like they did for 2001 and The Shining! Oh well. We'll see what happens.
> 
> Thanks.


Thanks for replying. I've Googled a bit more for your issue.

Wondering if HDR10 somehow has been turned off for your TCL display?

Related:









How to Turn Off HDR on a TCL TV


High Dynamic Range (HDR) is excellent for watching programs with high-quality video. However, some TV sets don’t always maximize HDR’s full potential. For one, the immediate area’s lighting can have a huge effect on picture quality.




www.alphr.com





Continued good luck.


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## LibertasMan

Panson said:


> Thanks for replying. I've Googled a bit more for your issue.
> 
> Wondering if HDR10 somehow has been turned off for your TCL display?
> 
> Related:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Turn Off HDR on a TCL TV
> 
> 
> High Dynamic Range (HDR) is excellent for watching programs with high-quality video. However, some TV sets don’t always maximize HDR’s full potential. For one, the immediate area’s lighting can have a huge effect on picture quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.alphr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Continued good luck.


Thanks again!

I don't think HDR10 is turned off, because I'm still getting the tv's HDR pop-up notification in the upper right corner of my screen when I play HDR10 discs.

And, I forgot that I also have another recent film in HDR10---Blade Runner 2049. I don't recall there being any noticeable flaws with it the one time I watched it so far---I could be wrong. And I am still going to view my new copy of Jojo Rabbit tonight for the first time.

I re-viewed Blade Runner Final Cut last night. This time I used the HDR Optimizer on my player. It looked better this time, I think. Except for that pesky unicorn daydream scene---it still has the fog populated with tiny black specks. I wish people who have that film on UHD disc would tell me whether or not they see those specks. There is one person on this forum who is going to check for me on their TCL tv. But additional input would be better. I'll try again on the review thread to get people to reply.

Thanks!


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## LibertasMan

@Panson 

Update:
Good news! I viewed a recently acquired 4k UHD copy of Unforgiven (Clint Eastwood). It is HDR10 only. I've left the HDR Optimizer on my player on.
The PQ was beautiful! No issues whatsoever!

Maybe my comparatively low-end TCL tv just accentuates high levels of grain (e.g., with the aforementioned Blade Runner Final Cut HDR10 UHD disc) to a point of turning it into noise. Like it seems to do with all B/W content---even streaming. E.g., when I streamed B/W episodes of The Beverly Hillbillies on PlutoTV, there was dancing noise (especially in the lighter shades). And when I viewed a bluray of Psycho (from an excellent German-issued Psycho collection) it did the same. And then, as I've mentioned here, the same effect occurred with the UHD HDR10 disc of Dr Strangelove---even with the Optimizer on, etc.
I can't think of another likely explanation. Grain shouldn't appear to dance.
I just wish I could confirm this phenomenon with other TCL owners---but nobody is replying (or posting at all, for that matter) on the discussion thread for my tv on this forum. I don't know why. I know the tv model is 2 years old, but surely most of the owners still use it. And I've asked politely and thanked them in advance for replies. Oh well.

I still haven't checked Jojo. I hope to this weekend, along with The Thing and ACO. I just hope The Thing doesn't suffer from the same problems as the Shout Factory steelbook bluray (made from a 4k scan)!

Have a great weekend.


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## puddy77

LibertasMan said:


> @Panson
> 
> Update:
> Good news! I viewed a recently acquired 4k UHD copy of Unforgiven (Clint Eastwood). It is HDR10 only. I've left the HDR Optimizer on my player on.
> The PQ was beautiful! No issues whatsoever!
> 
> Maybe my comparatively low-end TCL tv just accentuates high levels of grain (e.g., with the aforementioned Blade Runner Final Cut HDR10 UHD disc) to a point of turning it into noise. Like it seems to do with all B/W content---even streaming. E.g., when I streamed B/W episodes of The Beverly Hillbillies on PlutoTV, there was dancing noise (especially in the lighter shades). And when I viewed a bluray of Psycho (from an excellent German-issued Psycho collection) it did the same. And then, as I've mentioned here, the same effect occurred with the UHD HDR10 disc of Dr Strangelove---even with the Optimizer on, etc.
> I can't think of another likely explanation. Grain shouldn't appear to dance.
> I just wish I could confirm this phenomenon with other TCL owners---but nobody is replying (or posting at all, for that matter) on the discussion thread for my tv on this forum. I don't know why. I know the tv model is 2 years old, but surely most of the owners still use it. And I've asked politely and thanked them in advance for replies. Oh well.
> 
> I still haven't checked Jojo. I hope to this weekend, along with The Thing and ACO. I just hope The Thing doesn't suffer from the same problems as the Shout Factory steelbook bluray (made from a 4k scan)!
> 
> Have a great weekend.


I checked the unicorn scene on Blade Runner. The only black specks I saw were the clumps of dirt kicked up by the horse. But I did notice that scene was significantly grainier than the rest of the movie. Probably because it’s slow motion. That usually requires more light, but it’s a low light scene. So they probably used a higher ASA film stock and maybe pushed the negative. All results in more grain.

I don’t have TCL or Panasonic (Vizio and Oppo here), but check your sharpness settings (maybe turn down to 0) or turn off any noise reduction settings.


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## LibertasMan

puddy77 said:


> I checked the unicorn scene on Blade Runner. The only black specks I saw were the clumps of dirt kicked up by the horse. But I did notice that scene was significantly grainier than the rest of the movie. Probably because it’s slow motion. That usually requires more light, but it’s a low light scene. So they probably used a higher ASA film stock and maybe pushed the negative. All results in more grain.
> 
> I don’t have TCL or Panasonic (Vizio and Oppo here), but check your sharpness settings (maybe turn down to 0) or turn off any noise reduction settings.


Thank you for checking that scene! Much appreciated!
I tried zeroing out the HDR sharpness setting on my tv and on the player when I viewed Strangelove---it didn't help. I chose not to bother to try when I viewed Blade Runner. I might next time. Also, I always have sharpness on zero when streaming on my tv and when viewing DVDs/BDs. It still happens with B/W (and some color) film content then.
All Noise Reduction settings are always off on both the tv and player.

So far, on the thread for owners of my tv, one fellow TCL owner has posted that he agrees that it seems to be some intrinsic attribute of the TCL tv. I'm hoping for more replies---just to try for a small consensus.

Thanks again.
Have a great week.


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## LibertasMan

To all posters:

Question and update:

The Thing and A Clockwork Orange UHD discs look excellent!

Finally viewed these discs this week.

Happily, The Thing does not suffer from the same issues that the Shout Factory steelbook bluray (from a 4k scan) does.
No white specks in the Norwegian's coat and no white specks in the black night sky. Beautiful!

ACO disc's only problem is:
When the film starts, a small grey popup box appears stating what audio and subtitle selections are playing. Very annoying! It is imposed for a few seconds over the film itself---the solid color screens at the start.

Anyone else seeing that with this disc---and/or others?

I think it happens only if you select a non-default audio track. E.g., on the ACO disc, I selected the original mono track.
I don't think it happens with any DVDs/BDs.
I use a Panasonic ub820 UHD player.

Does anyone else have this experience with UHD discs?
I'd like to determine whether it happens with other players as well or if it is an anomaly of the ub820. If it does happen with other players, then it must be prompted by the disc to be displayed by the player.

Please let me know either way whether or not you experience this. I'm trying to get some consensus. If you are willing, please try playing a UHD film after selecting a non-default audio track on the disc. Your time and effort to do so is much appreciated.
Sincere thanks.


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## King Dazzar

If you have a high nit display, you simply must revisit Chappie. Its stunning. Over 8000 nits MAXCLL and 1500 nits MAXFALL. And whilst numbers can mean nothing. This film in HDR is amongst the best HDR presentations I've seen to date on my 3000nit Z9J. It looked good on WOLED, but on high end LCD's this looks superb and I imagine more recent QD-OLED's would be great too. Highly recommended.


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## sukumar

I got 4k sony projector. Any movies that I can buy to test 4k content with 16:9 screen? Appreciate recommendations on few movies to collect that has good video/audio


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