# Official Optoma Graywolf screen thread.



## guitarman

I just got a 106" diagonal Graywolf screen. Right now they only come in pull down form. Anyway I was hoping becasue the material is retro-reflective that I wouldn't be bothered by the waves the non tensioned screens pick up. Well prayer answered, you cannot see waves with video on the screen. I ran every IRE shade of gray with Avia and just saw a flat image.


The screens color is a very dark gray and there's glass beads in the surface to get the 1.8 gain. Watching a few movies I wasn't bothered by sparlies from the surface. Didn't see hot spots either. The material is a great match for the H79 which is a bright projector. It made the video look very 3D w/dark blacks, colors got extremely stronger and the ANSI contrast looked very high.


For those wanting a higher end screen there will be fixed and Electric models in the near future.


Optoma Graywolf - Dark Gray material, 1.8gain, retro-reflective.


__________________


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## ssj2

Thanks for the review Tom. Just for clarification, the retro-reflective surface is best suited for tabled mounted projectors?


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## guitarman

Yes but you still get extra gain punch ceiling mounted. I'll run a test to see what the drop off is.


I'd expect this screen to become a hot item. When Dalite came out with their gray screen tons bought it, mainly for the better blacks. But it had a problem showing waves with video for sure. Plus this new screen has the advantage of higher gain.


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## JeffKB

Tom - sounds like an interesting screen. How's it hold up off angle? Is it as narrow a cone as the HP?


Thx


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## HeadRusch

And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?


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## Robert Clark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?




A very good question...


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## guitarman

If you go far off to the side brightness goes down, much like the HP. But colors, colors go ten fold, very rich and black goes off the charts. You can see the glass beads if you try but during a movie you tend to ignore it because it's not so profound. This dark of a gray needs the glass for the punch.


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## talon95

Very interesting. Thanks for the review. What I noticed was that this screen is dirt cheap too. I might be interested if they make some larger sizes.


Dave G.


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## HeadRusch

MSRP on these screens?


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## JeffKB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MSRP on these screens?


 http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/p...ory_screen.jsp


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## guitarman

Using the Graywolf is the most fun I've had lately with my setup. I had a real problem using the HP screen, I was at 34ftl's. Far from the 12ftl's for ideal HT. Much closer now, great blacks, great color, no wave hassels and cheap price.


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## HeadRusch

Hmmm....I wonder if they'll make a 120" anytime soon...looks like 106 is the biggest?


Who carries these? AVS?


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## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And does it suffer the fate of the other flat grey screens that punch up the CR but also tend to make colors look dingy or dim?



I loaned my 80" wide GrayWolf to a friend who had tried the High Power with his HS20 and he felt that it did make things look kind of dingy. He also said that people looked a little sickly with it, but he wasn't sure why. There is also a whole thing about gray screens messing up colors that many people have mentioned and I cannot find any physical reason for this (other than lower ft-lamberts throwing people off). So, I ran a test. I discovered that with my Sharp 11k, putting it in the brightest iris choice on the High Power with the Graywolf gives close to the same ft-lamberts as putting it in the dimmest iris choice on the High Power. In my mostly black velvet room I didn't tell my friend which screen was which and had him close his eyes between my changes. In this testing he could not tell any difference between the colors on the High Power and those on the Graywolf with about the same ft-lamberts. He did mention that he could tell which screen was which because the High Power mostly disappears while it is possible to see the surface on my Graywolf and so for that reason he prefered the High Power in this test.


I got the 80" wide one a little while ago and thought about doing a whole review thread here, but figured I would wait for the 92" wide one I ordered. However, when that one arrived it turned out to be a white screen and I need to get it replaced. The model numbers are the same for the white screens and the Graywolf, so hopefully they will fix this as I've heard of other people also getting the wrong screens.


Anyway, I did post some stuff on the >$3.5k projector forum and I'll include some relevant parts from those early thoughts here now thought Tom has this thread:


--- start here ---

- The viewing cone seems to be very similar to the Da-Lite High Power. Basically, it looks to me like the gain at an angle could be pretty well calculated by taking the gain of the High Power at that angle and dividing by 2.3. Even though the High Power is rated at 2.8, I believe its peak gain is closer to 3.3 (and somebody else with some good equipment found about this after I mentioned that I thought it was higher than 2.8 and even than the 3.1 or so I have on a graph). If the High Power is 3.3 peak and about 1.4 at 15 degrees off angle, then that would put this at just over 1.4 peak and 0.6 at 15 degrees off. I believe the graph I have a printout for with the High Power is from measurements that Stewart did of the High Power and I can post some numbers for different angles later.


- The screen has a gray white pattern that I am wondering how to describe. It might almost be like a bird or wolf that is gray, but when you get up close you see that it isn't completely uniform. It looks to me like they sprayed a gray mixture on a white screen and when it dried it left things a little patchy. With my 1280x720 Sharp 11k the resulting grainyness was in the range of the pixel sizes or bigger (like streaks of narrow gaps). Unfortunately, I can see a dirty look that I attribute to this pattern even at over 2x. People should note that I tend to notice things like this that others don't notice at all (I don't like the sheen I've seen with the SilverStar for instance).


- When I first pulled the screen down, besides getting a strong paint smell, there was a piece of plastic covering about the top 1/3rd of the screen. This might be a good idea for protecting the screen, but after taking this off it left a horizontal line that I can see in the images at times. Especially with uniform colors. If this wasn't a mistake on my screen then I think that Panoview needs to fix this and cover the whole screen if they want to do this.


- I tried this in my off-white walled living room and measured higher ANSI CR than my High Power. I also think the depth perception was better with the GrayWolf than with the High Power in there. But, I had to open the iris on the 11k to get enough lumens for this screen, so it is important to have enough for it.


- I've been hoping for a gray version of the High Power and this is close. One great thing about the High Power is that the surface mostly disappears and so this is missing that one attribute for me though.


The main suggestion I have for Panoview is to take care of this issue with the plastic covering the screen surface. Either cover the whole screen or none of it for shipment. And then I would like to know if this patchy/grainyness thing is on purpose or if they could spray more of one layer on there so that the screen would be more uniform in small areas. I could personally give up some gain for less patchiness. I like the screen for certain situations, but think it may be possible to make it even better.

--- end here ---


Also, I have a hardcopy of a graph of measurements for the High Power that I believe came from Stewart. It shows about 3.1 for the peak gain at zero degrees, but I believe that is actually closer to 3.3-3.4 with my High Powers (and someone else who measured for me) based on what some other screens have for gains.


Here are some points off the curve:
Code:


Code:


0 ----- 3.1
5 ----- 2.5
10 --- 2.05
15 --- 1.4
20 --- .95
25 --- .8
30 --- just above .7
35 --- just below .7
40 --- .65
45 --- just above .6
50 --- .6
55 --- .58
60 --- .57

Those are for the High Power, but as I mentioned above, I think dividing those by about 2.3 will get you pretty close for the Graywolf for any angle. Or maybe 2.2 from this chart would work better if the High Power is really more like 3.3-3.4 peak.


Also, please remember that the table mount recommendation for retro-reflective screens is just a guideline. The angles are what matters and having the projector a little overhead tends to work very well (especially since it doesn't take up the best seat in the house or force you to have a projector in your field of vision).


--Darin


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## jonjandrews

I wonder how this screen compares to the Firehawk. Specifically, in those fade to black scenes where blacks turn grey, does this screen improve in that area where you can be sold on the black level?


Is the grey material darker than that of the Firehawk?


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## krasmuzik

darinp2


These people that think grey makes things dingy are basing that claim by placing a grey sample on a white screen . They would say the exact same thing for a white sample on a high power screen.


As you pointed out - equalize the brightness - and that goes away.


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## Robert Clark

Thanks, Darin.


Disappointing to hear about the texture. That's what would make a grey Highpower so attractive...


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## ssj2

Tom, does your Graywolf also have the texture Darin describes?. Did yours also come with the plastic covering the top 1/3 of the scrren -- if so did it leave a mark?


For those who own or have seen this screen, is it available with a black case & black pull-down bar? White would really stick out in my theater.


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## jkirby

I just checked the MSRP on these. Is it just me or are these insanely low prices? People are comparing it to Stewart screens? Aren't they almost 5 to 10x the amount of $ of a Graywolf?


I know that people in this forum want 'the best' of everything - and that is certainly desireable. But for those of us on a budget, the price/performance ratio is important.


What I am trying to say is that - all things considered - is the Graywolf great for the $ for those who can't afford Stewart/Vutect?


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## guitarman

Mine had the plastic but it didn't impress a line in the material. I've been viewing this screen non stop with the H79 because HP is just too bright for the projector. I'm liking the deepness I got back to the image. Mine is pretty uniform in that it's gray with glass beads mixed. I'm not bothered by the glass beads, it's what gives it it's higher gain power. Hard to describe, sotra like a plasma effect but blacks are dark.


As far as colors they look excellent because I used colorfacts with the Gregtag one/eye facing the screen material for a match up.


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## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonjandrews* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder how this screen compares to the Firehawk. Specifically, in those fade to black scenes where blacks turn grey, does this screen improve in that area where you can be sold on the black level?
> 
> 
> Is the grey material darker than that of the Firehawk?



The biggest difference between the screens (other than price) is that the Graywolf is retro-reflective and the Firehawk is angular-reflective. This means different restrictions and performances under different conditions. If things are setup right I think it can mean better uniformity on the Graywolf (the Firehawk tends to dropoff towards the sides unless the throw and viewing ratio are both large). The Firehawk does have a more uniform surface to my eyes, but I'm hoping this is something that can be addressed with the Graywolf. I like the retro-reflectivity and the fact that it is a pull-down as I can move it between my setups easier. I will probably be selling my fixed Firehawk screen to somebody later this week and using a Graywolf instead when I want to test or use a gray screen. I haven't checked them against each other for how dark the gray base is (this requires not getting thrown off by the different reflectivities). My guess is that they are close, but if anything I would guess the Graywolf is darker just based on my calculations of somewhere in the .43 range for the gray base for it.


As far as the case color, the Graywolf I got came with a white case and the white case they shipped as a mistake came with a black case. I was excited to see the black case with the 2nd screen, but disappointed to find out it wasn't the Graywolf material.


--Darin


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## ssj2

The info I've seen online says it has a large black border on top. Are the side and bottom borders 2"? Can the roller be stopped so that there's only roughly a 2" border on top? The extra black border would cause me not to be able to use the screen otherwise. Thanks.


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## guitarman

The upper boarder is 13" when the screens all the way down. I have trouble getting a two inch border. It likes to stop at 4" and 1/2" borders. I'm using the 1/2" spot. Looks ok but painting the case black would be a good idea. Or mabye you could order black


The border is for letting you install the screen flush with the ceiling, cleaner look. With the long drop down your video will be closer to eye level


Here's the screen with the H79 and Oppo DVD player.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg


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## ssj2

Thanks Tom. Time to order mine.


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## bob53

Any idea if Optoma will send out a small sample to test? Also, I wonder how difficult this would be to buy as the fabric alone and mount it as I have a DIY fixed screen.


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## ssj2

bob53, I sent an email asking Optoma if they would send a sample this morning. No response yet. I sent it to the same adress Darin mentioned -- I don't think he ever got a response. I'll post & let you know the response.


I'm still trying to find one with a black case -- anybody know if it exists? I asked this of Optoma as well. I hope they respond.


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## bob53

Black case? Thanks for your efforts, I look forward to the followup - this screen seems like what a few people are trying to homebrew - I like DIY but I've done too much of it lately and I'm starting to feel like I value my freetime more than my money










Bob


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## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bob53* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I wonder how difficult this would be to buy as the fabric alone and mount it as I have a DIY fixed screen.



My guess is that with the low price you might be better off just buying it with the pull-down case and cutting the fabric out. Much like people do with the High Power.


--Darin


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## nirvana_av

Buy.com appears to be the only reseller of the Panoview Graywolf screen. Are there other sources?


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## HeadRusch

Tom, those screenshots look too dark to me......like the colors on the blue and red don't seem as punchy and vibrant. Maybe, when/if you have time, you might do a few of the shots you had for the H31 thread...the Gandalf Face or the Chronicles of Riddick shots.


Please, no more Leelu


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## MickeyDora




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nirvana_av* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Buy.com appears to be the only reseller of the Panoview Graywolf screen. Are there other sources?



BB has it also...I think

BB link


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## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom, those screenshots look too dark to me......like the colors on the blue and red don't seem as punchy and vibrant. Maybe, when/if you have time, you might do a few of the shots you had for the H31 thread...the Gandalf Face or the Chronicles of Riddick shots.
> 
> 
> Please, no more Leelu



They look pretty good on my laptop monitor. Notice the contrast of the first shot, girls hair vs the snow. Second one had good contrast also but no black in the picture. This is the H79 and the H79 has a ten fold deepness of red over the H30 ahd H31. Red is actually an overstaturated color with the H79, but it will still look natural and not go Crimson.


I put more Graywolf screen shots over the the H79 review thread. Some with added sharpness some without, like the ones above.


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## jkirk

I know that screen shots are a poor way of doing an analysis but, do you think that the blacks/dark colors are over emphasized? (I probably committed some sort of heresy with this questions.)


Also, I know this is a very reasonably priced screen. Do you know whether the electric model can have additional leader at the top. I need between 2 and 3 feet to lower it to the proper level.


Last question. I will be putting it in a soffit. Do you know the dimensions of the electric screen case yet?


thnx


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## HeadRusch

I'll take a look Tom, if the freebie Elite screen that came with my PJ doesn't make the long-term cut with me, I will definately consider this screen as a possibility.


Hmmm....I really hope they will send out samples or swatches......would be nice to demo it in your own home.


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## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkirk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know that screen shots are a poor way of doing an analysis but, do you think that the blacks/dark colors are over emphasized? (I probably committed some sort of heresy with this questions.)
> 
> 
> Also, I know this is a very reasonably priced screen. Do you know whether the electric model can have additional leader at the top. I need between 2 and 3 feet to lower it to the proper level.
> 
> 
> Last question. I will be putting it in a soffit. Do you know the dimensions of the electric screen case yet?
> 
> 
> thnx



It's hard to tell about tunups with screens shots. They do look good on my old T22 IBM laptop so I'd imagine they'll look great on the store 19" CRT monitor. I tuned the monitor to correct blacks and whites so I'll be able to tell better there. Some were questioning the sharpness or lack of at the H79 review thread. I explained how there's zero shaprness on the PJ and the Oppos sharpness which defaults at low is turned to off (even lower). I feel the exagerated sharpness takes away from a smoother image which I'm use to from CRT.


Electrics and fixed screens are still on the drawing board, no details are set yet.


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## SMP01

Hey


Does anyone know if Optoma might be putting together a screen/projector bundle in the near future?


I really like the look of the black casing.


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## FlyingGimp

Has anyone ordered this recently and actually got the right screen? Also when this is dropshipped from Optoma, where does it come from? My first incorrect order came from Oakland and my second currently in progress order is coming from Bloomington, CA.


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## ssj2

I just received a response from Optoma confirming that the Graywolf does come with a black case. I asked if there was a specific model number for black, and there isn't. Rather, it was suggested that a black case be specified when ordering.


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## dannypanny

I ordered a graywolf screen from buy.com on saturday and it arrived today.Guess what?Wrong type screen.They shipped me a used white screen.I would wait to order this screen .


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## guitarman

A used white screen? I guess they'll handle all the expense. Are you going to ask for a black case and a new one? sri


Mine is a white case, didn't know about the black. Darin got a mix up also I think. You better impress upon the cust service guy to double check they will ship out the exact order. Mention the slip ups.


Screen sales growing pains for sure. I'll check the box mine came in to see where it's from.


Oh this screen is stinky when you first draw it down. The smell goes away pretty quickly though. Keep the doors and windows open. The HP dalite was this was also.


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## dannypanny

I sent them an e-mail.The casing is black.The screen is white.I havn't heard back from them yet.Very dissapionted.


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## guitarman

Looks like the shpping is fast maybe you'll be jake by Friday.


Here's some more pictures incase they were missed. These with sharpness added by the projector and Oppo player.


Murky blacks scene, sharpnesses on.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf7.jpg 


Lady with projectros sharpness at middle
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf8.jpg 


Lady w/pj's sharpness and the Oppos sharpness in default which they call low
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf9.jpg 


Excellent deinterlacing scene, end of Greatness of Rome. nice 3D also, both sharpness adds
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf10.jpg 


More of the Oppos sharpness feature, notice the ringing left side of face.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg


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## ssj2

Update from Optoma. There is no Graywolf in a black case. White only.


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## hmbeal

Danny, please give us an update when you can I almost ordered one from buy.com today. I hope everything works out for you.


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## dannypanny

Will Do


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## guitarman

Ah, Darin was happy to see the second screen came in a black case, but not happy it was mat white. Thanks for clearing that up.


I guess Danny asked for a black case?


Looks like Graywolf owners will have to paint it black themselves. The Graywolf logo is kinda cool. You could cover it up with vasoline to keep it, or paper tape even better.


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## dannypanny

The case is flat black and there's a sticker that says MovieTime.


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## guitarman

Another clue, lol


My white case says, Graywolf on the left, Optoma on the right.


Whoops, Graywolf on the right, Panaview on the left.


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## dannypanny

This case doesn't say optoma.The cardboard box it came in says panaview.


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## guitarman

I just looked at the site. You'll notice all the Panaviews are black as soon as the Graywolf line is up there they're all white.


I think we have it figured out now. They must be told you want the Graywolf in the white case. If they mess up after that I don't know what to say.


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## dannypanny

Tom,I did order correctly.My confirmatiom e-mail says graywolf 1.8 screen.


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## FlyingGimp

darinp - Has Optoma contacted you or sent you the correct screen yet?


I imagine my next buy.com screen will be wrong as well, so I'll probably be calling optoma directly. If anyone has a direct number to someone at optoma or panoview that knows about the model number screw-up, I'd appreciate getting it.


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## guitarman

Gimp, you're on the right track. Talk to a person, no buy it now.


This is a pretty wild screen. I'll call it Plasma Gray. Wavey non-tensioned that doesn't show waves with video, you'll see.


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## hdefjunkie

This screen might turn out to be a viable option for those who want the

best of both worlds. Drop this inexpensive screen in front of a traditional

white fixed. Too bad an electric, sofit mounted one is not available.


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## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FlyingGimp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> darinp - Has Optoma contacted you or sent you the correct screen yet?



I don't remember who B&H Photo said was supposed to call me to setup sending my screen back and getting the correct one, but I haven't heard anything. I've been hoping UPS would just drop off the correct one and then we could worry about getting the other one back, but no word so far.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdefjunkie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This screen might turn out to be a viable option for those who want the
> 
> best of both worlds. Drop this inexpensive screen in front of a traditional
> 
> white fixed. Too bad an electric, sofit mounted one is not available.



I agree. When somebody needs a wider viewing cone for more guests or something they could go to a different screen and take advantage of how this one tends to help retain ANSI CR when they can deal with the more narrow viewing cone. Or one screen for movies and one for sports, etc. My plan is to hang a 92" wide one of these behind my 116" wide High Power and then maybe use this one when the lights are on.


--Darin


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## ronaldk988

I ordered mine though BB.com, was ready for pick up the next day. I picked it up yesterday, correct screen, and mounted it.


No defects that I could see. It's a thin case, very tightly wound. Pretty light. Panoview on the left, Greywolf on the right. Very wide viewing cone by my eyes.


Played with it last night using my SP 4805 and the picture looked great to my unprofessional eyes.


And, as an added bonus, the chemical smell from the screen (like an old mimmeograph page) was so strong, we were high for the first hour.


Ron


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## hmbeal

Did you order the 92" or the 106" screen from BB.com it looks like the 106" would be the one but the 92" say's that it is white.


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## ronaldk988

I ordered the 106" and it is the GreyWolf. The case is white.

We are sitting about 15' back and it is BIG! I hope I didn't make a mistake!

Ron


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## SMP01

can someone please post the dimensions of the shipping box. I'm interest in the 92" but others may want to know about the other.


Also any comments on how the screen is packaged would be appreciated. ie How well it can survive in the back of the truck.


Thanks


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## HeadRusch

I have another thread here in the SCREENS section, does anyone notice the screen texture on this greywolf screen from reasonable seating distances?


On the cheaptacular ELITE white screen I received with my H31 I notice the texture of the screen in some shots......


I just checked the buy.com price on the 106". WOW thats cheap. I may order one just to demo it, but before I do I have to check with Tom.


Tom, you've run the H31 and you're running the H79 right now I think...tell me, are we talking about a significant image improvement going from a matte white screen to this Greywolf? Is it a new keeper?


Also.....will the grey become a problem as the bulb reaches halflife or begins to age more than a matte white screen would?


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## hmbeal

Has anyone found where to get the 92' Graywolf, I am not sure if BB.com 92" is the graywolf or not and BUY.com seems to have problems from what I have heard.


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## ronaldk988

my 106" screen came in a cardboard box, not very thick. It was about 105" long by about 8-10" wide. There were about 6 styrofoam braces holding the screen in the box. I wouldn't subject this box to too much stress!


Ron


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## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ronaldk988* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered mine though BB.com, was ready for pick up the next day. I picked it up yesterday, correct screen, and mounted it.
> 
> 
> No defects that I could see. It's a thin case, very tightly wound. Pretty light. Panoview on the left, Greywolf on the right. Very wide viewing cone by my eyes.
> 
> 
> Played with it last night using my SP 4805 and the picture looked great to my unprofessional eyes.
> 
> 
> And, as an added bonus, the chemical smell from the screen (like an old mimmeograph page) was so strong, we were high for the first hour.
> 
> 
> Ron



Sounds good, especially the free stone.







Hmmm Optoma Graywolf and the Infocus meet.










At 15' back you're ok. I've been using this size of screen for a while and it's been looking small lately. I still have to use this size though, it is plenty big.


Tell them about how gray looking this baby looks? I haven't seen any other gray screen other than the Grayhawk. I wonder if any other gray screens tone, is as dark as this one?


Darin, what's the tone like a 40 or 50 IRE pattern with Avia?


Texture, I don't see it as a problem, the texture looks like a dark gray with glass beads in it and sprayed uniformly across the screen. When video is going you get like I said a plasma kind of look from the gain (whites are sizzling) and strong black levels from the gray.


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## gman38

Amazon has these


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## MickeyDora




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gman38* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Amazon has these



and the price is incredible!!!


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## dookie1

...with free shipping...


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## Audionuttt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MickeyDora* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> and the price is incredible!!!



But only in 92" variant


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## ssj2

Tom, I seem to recall a few posts back you were going to try to measure the gain when the projector is ceiling mounted. Is that something you were able to do?


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## hdefjunkie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Audionuttt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But only in 92" variant



Try searching by the Optoma model number or part number DS-9106PM or

DS9106PM.


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## guitarman

It has to be done in an absolute black out. I've been sleeping on the job.










I'll get around to it, but I'm off to the beach for a few days vactaion. Can't wait to get back and see who's got their Graywolf and how they like it.

cya


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## MickeyDora




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Audionuttt* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> But only in 92" variant


 Try this linky


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## MickeyDora

Since this is a retro-reflective screen and works best with table mounted projectors, what do you guys think will be results with the following combo:


Sanyo Z2 shelve mounted about 7 feet above the floor


Screen about 11.5 feet away


Seating is 11 feet away from screen with an eye level of 32-36 inches high.


Will the retro-reflective make it too dark at that angle???


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## krasmuzik

guitarman


Have you measured viewing angles yet or compared against other gain samples?. It would seem that with an ceiling mounted lens offset projector you would be better off with High Contrast Matte White (1.1) as far as getting any gain since it is going to go all back up to the ceiling


----------



## miltimj

Am I missing something, or is this truly the best of both worlds, having an increase in gain and contrast? How does the actual brightness compare for the screen compared to 1.0 gain? (I currently have an unpainted Parkland Plastics Bright White as my "screen").


Secondly, with HD sources, do you notice any degradation at all in resolution capability (as far as how crisp and detailed it is)? Especially given the beaded surface... I really liked what an absolutely flat PPBW sheet did compared to the slightly textured bare wall that I had before that.


----------



## hmbeal

I cant seem to find the 92" Graywolf at Amazon just the 106", can someone post a link to the 92".


----------



## Audionuttt

 http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_.../10390774.html


----------



## dannypanny

Don't order from buy.com.You will recieve wrong item.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *krasmuzik* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Have you measured viewing angles yet or compared against other gain samples?



I believe it has about the same gain curve as the High Power as far as angles after doing measurements with both, but just with a darker base. So, the same issues with ceiling mount as the High Power (except maybe to even more extent since there is more opportunity for the darker screen to make things too dark at an off angle).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am I missing something, or is this truly the best of both worlds, having an increase in gain and contrast?



Without ambient light no screen is going to help the on/off CR, so this "best of both worlds" that people want with a higher gain for white than for black doesn't exist. The gain is the same for 100 IRE as 0 IRE from any angle (other than some minor complications for certain conditions like different color temps that I won't get into here). But, the gray surface can help ANSI CR and can allow you to use a brighter mode or projector when lights are on in a room without getting overly bright images.


--Darin


----------



## ssj2

So, in the end will this screen increase black level? One of the reasons I'm interested in a gray screen is to reduce black level.


----------



## miltimj

It's quite ridiculous that both 106" screens have the model number DS-9106PM... but I just ordered mine from Amazon. Supposedly won't get it for two weeks though. I guess it's worth a shot at this price.


----------



## gman38

Apparently the 92" at Amazon is not the 1.8 gray. They do have 1 106" left:


106":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...onics&n=507846


----------



## jjmd

I also ordered the 106" from Amazon today (right now I have a 4'x8' piece of melamine) and a H77 shelf mounted. I'll report on how it works when I get it in about 1.5 weeks.


Jay


----------



## miltimj

Gman, FYI, it said there was one left before and after I ordered it...


----------



## bootron

so how well does this screen work with ambient light? i saw darin said that he would use the 92" in front of his high power, but the high power was a much larger size. does this retain colors better in ambient light but just isnt quite as bright?


----------



## jkirby

so no good for a ceiling mount? arrgh - just spent bokoo $ (e.g. lots) on wiring for a ceiling mount. Will this not give me any benefit?


also, how do the black bars on DVD sources look (e.g. top/bottom for widescreen or sides for 4:3 material)? Are they discernable or should I look at a 4:3 graywolf also (which I couldnt' find, btw)


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, in the end will this screen increase black level? One of the reasons I'm interested in a gray screen is to reduce black level.



It depends on which black level you are talking about. If you are talking about absolute black level or full screen "black" (blackout) then it will only lower that if you are sitting in a viewing position with low enough gain that it is also lowering the white level. If you are talking about blacks in mixed scenes, then a gray screen can help these compared to a white screen by killing some of the reflections that go to the walls and then back to the screen. This is really the main "magic" of gray screens. Reducing the effect of room reflections. But this doesn't really apply to blackout scenes because any reduction of reflections is the same percentage for blackout scenes as for full white scenes (and thus no change to on/off CR).


--Darin


----------



## ssj2

It's not that it isn't good with a ceiling mount. Rather, the full benefit of the gain won't be realized with a ceiling mount.


I had previously owned a ceiling mounted dlp with a high power screen (retro reflective) and while I lost some of the gain, it was great at minimizing reflections and obscuring any waves in the material.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Well, if you have been following the Toshiba MT700 thread you would have seen that as soon as I read about this screen I became so excited that I ran right out and bought it at BB. I paid retail but I'm considering it a 30 day trial after which it will go back if either if I can find it cheaper elsewhere (but want to keep it), or find I prefer something else.


The 106" Graywolf is replacing a 4x8' sheet of Parkland Plastics Durotherm-Lite that is bare white and 5/16" thick. As stated before, I am running it off of a ceiling-mounted Toshiba MT700 that (was) calibrated with Avia. The lamp has 208 hours on it. My room can be viewed at the link in my signature below, but it is an essentially 95% light controlled finished basement. It is only light controlled when I bother to use blackout cloth to cover the 5ft wide window that sits at chest level directly opposite the screen. My seating it at approx 12.5 ft back under the pj. I viewed random HD samples from my Cox Motorola HD/DVR, both recorded and live.


I am definatley not an expert in HT, nor in screens, but these are my first impressions of the Greywolf in my setup in comparison to the Parkland:


1) Lowest black level is noticeably improved. The largest difference is when I have the window uncovered - the change is worthwhile to say the least. Now I can throw a football party and not have the room be a cave. With the lamp set on high it looks very, very good in ambiant light compared to the Parkland (washed out like crazy). The difference is smaller when the room is dark - the Parkland seems a hair brighter when seated, but the Greywolf still has better blacks.

2) Contrast is improved, but whites are only somewhat as hot as the Parkland when I am standing due to #3.

3) Viewing cone is acceptable out to 90 degrees at least, but I lose some gain by sitting since the PJ is ceiling mounted (works perfectly for the spot where my bar will go!). When standing the Graywolf seemed about as bright as the Parkland to me. Seated viewing is still very good. There is a small drop in brightness (I'd guess 5-10%) at about 30 degrees (left or right), but then it looks uniform out to about 45ish.

4) No hotspotting that I could see, the Parkland has a minor hotspot in the middle.

5) The texture is...interesting. I would tend to agree with the "Plasma" comment earlier. I don't think it is having a detrimental effect on HDTV clarity/resolution, but it will take some getting used to for me, since my eye has become used to the smooth Parkland. It is not really a negative, but I would give the edge to the Parkland in this deptartment with the caveat that the preference may only be due to my months of getting used to the plastic.

6) I smelled the nice fumes, but they went away quickly.

7) The small plastic covering on the top of the screen removed easily and did not leave any impression that I could see.

8) Without changing settings on the MT700, the Parkland appeared to have a yellow tint in whites and greys compared to the Graywolf. Once compared side by side, I liked the greywolf more in this regard. However, I'm sure this is something that proper calibration would take care of.

9) The 2" black border around the actual screen area is nice, but close up it has some tiny white spots where the black material didn't cover. I can't see the spots from more a few inches away.

10) The one thing I would change...right now...is the color of the case. I can live with white, but this screen deserves a shiny black casing that melts into the background, not a flaring white one. A deep gray one would work better as well.

11) Call me crazy, but viewing the "Grid" test pattern in the PJ, I swear there is a significant, drastic reduction in RBE. I can see RBE any day of the week on my PJ (which is supposed to be very good about them - I can just see them on almost any DLP for some reason), but the Graywolf made a huge difference. Nice bonus there.


To sum up - I am happy with the Graywolf after my initial impressions. It may be a keeper for my setup, but I have 30 days to figure that out. I plan to get some screen samples for more informal comparisons. As you read my notes above, do keep in mind this is my first projector and first real screen other than the parkland. Hope this info helped....


Also - for a couple quick photos of the Greywolf (boxed and hung) check:
http://community.webshots.com/album/331614577HhULDO/1 

*** LAST THREE PHOTOS ONLY: OTHER SCREENSHOTS ARE FROM THE PARKLAND***


----------



## ronaldk988

I dont understand why there would be an optical difference between a table mount shooting 27 degrees up or a ceiling mount shooting 27 degrees down.


Ron


----------



## miltimj

That's great news in general, Jon. My main concern is #5, as I'm also used to the smooth crispness that the plastic provides for illuminating every detail of the resolution. However, I'm also probably used to the washed out image that the plastic portrays.. when I put up the screen, the tradeoff was worth it (still is), but I'm hoping for the best of both worlds... not being washed out, but not being able to see texture on the screen while viewing either.


Ron, since the screen is apparently retro-reflective (as opposed to angular-reflective), the screen will tend to reflect light back toward the source. Most viewers view in line with the lower part of the screen, thus a table mount will display a brighter image.


----------



## ssj2

Ron, it's the retro-reflective character of the screen that makes the gain greater when viewed at the same level as the light source..


----------



## MnkyBiz

Does anyone know if there is a How To, if say I wanted to purchase the 106 & make it into a fixed screen?


Any/all input would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## miltimj

Most likely not yet, since this is a relatively new screen. But you sound like a volunteer!...


----------



## bob53

MnkyBiz,


That is my current plan as well... I have a DIY screen that has a boarder and a removable center frame for the screen. Currently I have BO as the screen but assuming the 1.8 gain screen can be pulled tight, I'll probably staple it over the BO... I'll have to see if the screen can take such abuse.


Bob


----------



## MickeyDora

So now that we agree that this screen is not as good for ceiling mounted projectors...here is a good question...


What would be the gain on the ceiling mounted projector compared to a table projector assuming that the table gain is 1.8?


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MickeyDora* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What would be the gain on the ceiling mounted projector compared to a table projector assuming that the table gain is 1.8?



It completely depends on the angles and so there is no one number. And the true angle needs to be used, which includes offset both horizontally and vertically. Here I have converted curves for the High Power with a .45 multiplier and believe this is pretty close for the GrayWolf for gain at different angles:
Code:


Code:


0 ----- 1.4
5 ----- 1.13
10 --- .92
15 --- .63
20 --- .43
25 --- .36
30 --- .33
35 --- .31
40 --- .29
45 --- .27
50 --- .27
55 --- .26
60 --- .26

--Darin


----------



## FlyingGimp

Mark down another white screen from buy.com. I'm done with them. It will be interesting to see if optoma can help or if I'll just need to pay more from someone else.


----------



## dannypanny

Bummer


----------



## bootron

i just forked over the money to purchase the screen from bb.com and no matter it wasn't worth the money, or dealing with the incompetent employees. so i have decided that i will return this screen just because of my adventure and i don't deal well with pitiful customer service. that said, i haven't even had a chance to project onto the screen, but tonight it should be getting a good test. i've already made sure to get it hung and pulled down to kill that smell. i think if you bought this screen and a projector and tried to go home and watch for the first time you might blame the projector for the headache because although the smell wasn't overbearing it was definitely powerful. the texture i believe darin hit spot on. its not exactly uniform but it seems to be from even a short distance. i checked to see if i could spot the texture with the lights on full blast in the room and no luck. due to the larger size of the screen, i purchased the 106" model, i had to find a new location and so the only projector at my disposal is an x1 with many many many hours on the bulb, somewhere in the upper 3000's but i can't be sure right now. hopefully the screen can still give me a good image but it will be a while before i can get another projector down and move it. i'll be sure to provide any information i can and with various lights on and off in the room to see just how well this screen will perform. i might only use part of the screen since i dont have a light cannon and its on its last leg. this will help me see just how well those inconsistencies in the screen really show up if hit with a few more lumens.


----------



## bootron

once the projector hit the screen the waves disappeared!







viewing angle seemed much wider than high power







the screen really gave me a beautiful crisp image







SDE greatly reduced ( this is with the x1 and results may vary. the lines basically blended into the screen and i could definitely sit much closer to this screen than with a high power)










then i turned on the lights







sitting close to the projector was ok, but either side was out of the question.







the high power i can have lights on one side of the room, sit on the other as if they weren't on. not so with this screen. i had a lamp tucked in a corner away from the screen and the image was still washed out. was very upsetting because i thought this might have a chance. i think for those with light cannons thinking about the high power this is a much better choice. i think it would have better color saturation in ambient light with a few more lumens hitting it. i really want to get ahold of some other projectors and have some comparisons.


very film like image. i liked the fact that even though i wasn't completely filling the screen the gray color didn't stand out like the high power. for the first time with the projector i felt as though i was in a theater. hard to explain but usually the high power has a very sharp 3d image. although you could say dingy and muddy colors with the gray wolf i would have to disagree. instead they just felt perfect. of course i'm used to watching HD and the best i had was composite. it did remind me of just how well the x1 can perform with sdtv though. i'm going to connect some quality source material tomorrow and see what results i can achieve.


with the high power i can easily notice the viewing cone when moving around. thankfully with the graywolf it was barely noticeable. however, the cone may be the same its just that the high power is so bright in the cone that its easier to tell. i will edit this tomorrow and provide a better more concise summary once i have had time to tinker with settings.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bootron* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> once the projector hit the screen the waves disappeared!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> viewing angle seemed much wider than high power



Just want to check one thing to be sure.







Does the case say GrayWolf on it?


--Darin


----------



## gman38

How high on the wall should the case be mounted with the 92" version for optimal viewing , about 12' back on a regular sofa?


----------



## MikeE

One of the most frustrating aspects of this screen is trying to find a reliable vendor with a good price. If you search the part no. for this screen, you will see that a lot of vendors have it listed as a matte white screen with a black case. A few have it listed correctly, but it looks like some of those are still shipping the wrong part.


----------



## ssj2

The problem is that the matte white screen with black case is the same part number as the Graywolf screen with white case.


I ordered mine a few days ago from B&H photo. They assured me I would get a 1.8 gain Graywolf with a black case. I now know that doesn't exist. I'm curious which one I'll get -- I'm guessing it will be the matte white screen.


----------



## bootron

the box clearly stated graywolf 1.8. the case also says graywolf on it


----------



## MikeE

SSJ2


Please let us know how it all works out, becuase I would like to have the Black case also. Heck I would be happy just to know I was getting the Graywolf screen.


----------



## HeadRusch

Just remember guys, dont let the white case be a deal-breaker. Roll it up and set upon it with a can of KRYLON and you'll be in business in about 10 minutes.


In fact you could probably do it as FlatBlack instead of the gloss that comes on most black cases, further reducing the chances of light reflectivity.


----------



## miltimj

The white case will actually be a benefit for me initially because it's in my living room and will look better when it's not dark (80% of the time we're in the room). Once I build a dedicated HT (obviously only in use when dark), I'll be using a 2.35 screen and will thus need a different one anyway. Good point about how easy it is to paint it though, HeadRusch.


----------



## hdefjunkie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The problem is that the matte white screen with black case is the same part number as the Graywolf screen with white case.
> 
> 
> I ordered mine a few days ago from B&H photo. They assured me I would get a 1.8 gain Graywolf with a black case. I now know that doesn't exist. I'm curious which one I'll get -- I'm guessing it will be the matte white screen.



I'm also curious to see what you get as I was going to buy from B&H. I'm north

of the border (Canada) and doing exchanges across the border is a real PITA.


Hopefully these ordering bugs will be ironed out soon.


----------



## guitarman

I'm back,








Retro-relect screens being better for a table or low shelf mount doesn't mean they won'twork good and solve problems for ceiling mount users, we been setting up ceiling mounted with the Retro-reflects for years and happy. You'll get a brighter picture than mat white 1.0. I'll run a test but if the graywolf reacts like the HP we'll drop to near 1.3 or 1.4 gain using a ceiling mount.


The screen gets bonus points for lowering reflections users with white walls and ceilings get, like Darin just said.


Plus a non-tensioned pull down that won't show waves badly with video on it.


Then an amount of added gain. It has it's uses, love it with the H79.


----------



## HeadRusch

Tom, seriously....I'm sure I speak for everyone here.


If you go away on vacation or business, please, let us know. We were worried.

We were about to send out the Dogs


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll run a test but if the graywolf reacts like the HP we'll drop to near 1.3 or 1.4 gain using a ceiling mount.



You're already near 1.3 to 1.4 gain if you are at the projector with the GrayWolf. For your eyes at 42" off the floor and the projector 7.5' (or 90") off the floor and 16' from the screen, for the straight ahead spot from the viewer, the angle is about 16.8 degrees. I believe the gain is then about .56 for the GrayWolf and about 1.25 for the High Power.


--Darin


----------



## guitarman

With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?


What I did with the HP and the light meter is, face the meter to the screen just off side of the lens, then same facing I dropped the meter to where my eyes would be. I got a .08 difference.


With the H79 I see plenty of gain power. Way too much with the HP screen though. Much happier with the Graywolf. You've tried your H79 with both, which look do you prefer?


I have a spare Cosmo roller with Mat White on it same width size, so I'm thinking of carefully installing the Graywolf to it. I like the fact I can hang the case high and use the Graywolfs huge dropdown. You've figured it out haven't you this is a 120" 4.3 screen with large masking at the top, very useful for me.


Using the GW with a 16.9 dropdown I can't get a the 2" border spot, anybody get a clean stop at a 2" border at the top? I wonder if there's and adjustment inside to fix this problem? If I'm going to be taking it apart I guess I'll find out.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom, seriously....I'm sure I speak for everyone here.
> 
> 
> If you go away on vacation or business, please, let us know. We were worried.
> 
> We were about to send out the Dogs



I only said something about the beach Vac in this thread. New hot item


----------



## bootron

the viewing cone and ambient light are a bit more frustrating than i thought before. of course with lights off it produces a beautiful image from all seating positions. however once the lights come on you really have to be close to get a visible image.


i have a friend bringing an hc3 over but probably not for another week. its a very bright projector with very visible SDE. hopefully this screen will reduce the SDE that is so visible on white screens. also, i believe the added ability to retain a little contrast when ambient light is present will be a huge benefit and a great match.


edit: i'm really excited to see how well this setup works because it could be a great new deal for people on a very tight budget. the hc3 dropped in price and can be found very cheap and the screen can be found cheap, especially when compared to the high power. poor contrast at 500:1 is disheartening nowadays, but for entertainment rooms and nondedicated areas it could be a crowd pleaser.


----------



## ssj2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You're already near 1.3 to 1.4 gain if you are at the projector with the GrayWolf. For your eyes at 42" off the floor and the projector 7.5' (or 90") off the floor and 16' from the screen, for the straight ahead spot from the viewer, the angle is about 16.8 degrees. I believe the gain is then about .56 for the GrayWolf and about 1.25 for the High Power.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Would a reflective gray screen material with a .8 - 1.1 gain (I.E. Da-lite HCCV/HCMW) provide more gain for a ceiling mounted projector? Other than eliminating the visibility of screen waves, does a retro-reflective gray screen offer benefits that a reflective gray screen does not?


----------



## guitarman

"With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?"


I've tested visually the difference in brightness with the Graywolf by standing up and sitting at the viewing spot many times. The brightness ofcourse will drop a little but to my eyes it's still very bright when seated. More then livable brightness level with added blacks, colors look excellent also. Any time you start adding more blacks the colors increase in depth also.


You should see the Incredibles on this screen. Anybody else that's ceiling mounted their PJ with this screen want to chime in on the perceived difference when testing standing up vs the seated viewing spot?


This weekend I'll wait for a pictch black enviroment and get the light meter out to give you a sure idea on the light difference with a ceiling mounted PJ.


----------



## Smooth317

Waiting on pins and needles to hear if someone has cut one of these and mounted it to a fixed frame. Wish I had a concrete date (and price) for when they'll start selling fixed wall-mounted versions. The wife is giving me a huge no to having a case up on the wall and I'd have to agree with her. I suppose we had to agree on something at some point.


My setup will be ceiling mounted as well, but I do have beige walls / white ceiling so this may be the way to go for me. The only gray screen I've ever seen was the Sony version on an HS51 at a Fry's where the image looked muted, but then again their setup and environment blew.


I'll probably pick one up at BB to test it out if anyone can confirm that cutting and applying it to a wall-frame is do-able. Maybe they'd take it back in pieces if it turns out not to be?


----------



## mystery

Tom,


As you know I have the H57 which is a bright projector. 1100 lumens spec. Probably that's using britemode right? I don't know what it would be using econo mode. Maybe 800 lumens??


Anyway, it's far too bright for my High Power and I've been using an ND2 filter which has made the image great.


However, I've recently gone back to my old HCMW screen which I initially used with my X1 when I had off-white walls. I have found this HCMW screen to be really nice as a complimentary piece to the H57.


My question is, if the HCMW is this good with the H57, will I even need to get the Greywolf? I have tensioning and waves on the HCMW so I know that the Greywolf will be a step up in that regard. But the 1.0 or 1.1 gain that I'm getting now with the HCMW is probably about the same that I'd get with the Greywolf is it not? My projector is almost exactly as high on the wall as yours. 6'4" lens to floor. And my screen's bottom is only 14" off the floor so the sweet spot and the cone are in my favor for brightness.


What do you think? Would I be gaining enough to warrant a change. I know that I'd lose the angular reflectiveness from the HCMW but I think that if the image from the Greywolf is at least as bright as the HCMW, it may be worth switching screens to get rid of the waves.


Wayne


----------



## jjmd

I just remembered that mine will be going in front of a window (I'm using a piece of melamine now so I forgot about the window). Is this an opaque screen (like the Firehawk) or do I need to get a blackout blind by next Friday?


Thanks,

Jay


----------



## guitarman

Wayne it's worth it for eliminating the waves alone. You know how it is with the waves, like any video perfectionist you'll be looking at them all the time.










I think you'll be surprised with the added blacks and how the image looks nice and bright at the same time with your H57.


Re backing, pretty sure it's black like the dalite screens, but not certain. I felt the thickness of the material and thought I saw black on the back. I'll double check tonight.


----------



## mystery

Thanks Tom,


Looking forward to your light meter readings when you get the chance.







I'm seriously considering trying this screen out.


Wayne


----------



## KramerTC

The backing is black and it doesn't let any light through. Just got this yesterday from Best Buy and installed it today. I'm a rookie at this but I like it.


Oh, and you guys weren't kidding about the smell. It took about 3 hrs for the strong smell to go away.


----------



## hmbeal

I'm just curious what are the cleaning instructions for this screen I was all set to order one but remembered that my kids love to touch everything with dirty hands.


----------



## miltimj

In that case, you could always roll it up when not in use.


----------



## hmbeal

miltimj,

Where did you get your screen from did you get it locally or over the net I checked with the local BB but they only carry the 106" which is to large for my theater room.


----------



## freychris42424

Anybody hear if optoma will put out bigger sizes? I would like to see this and maybe upgrade but wouldn't be worth the upgrade if the size would be the same as the high power I have now.


Chris


----------



## miltimj

hmbeal,


I got mine from Amazon, but note that I did get the 106". I didn't look very closely for the 92", but it seems that there may be a problem from the various dealers sending the wrong one (white instead of gray screen, etc). I haven't received mine yet -- it's set to arrive on Wednesday.


----------



## Smooth317




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *freychris42424* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody hear if optoma will put out bigger sizes? I would like to see this and maybe upgrade but wouldn't be worth the upgrade if the size would be the same as the high power I have now.
> 
> 
> Chris



What size were you wanting? I think max I can go is 120" or so.


Go Boilers


----------



## freychris42424

I was thinking 120" or 133".


I sat 7 feet from a 4:3 120" screen in my dorm room, and it was only a tad too big. I like to sit 1.0x screen distance away from my screen. But then you could just say why not just move closer to a bigger screen. Or you could just sit 8 inches away from a 13" tube tv







.


Chris


----------



## Assayer

You would want a light cannon for a 133 incher unless you plan to sit in the absolute peak of the gain curve. Remember that Darin's measurements suggest the graywolf has a gain of slightly less than half the high power for any given angle.


----------



## guitarman

Using a light meter the screen gain dropped exactly to half from a flat ceiling mount to the eye viewing area. That's with a flush mounted projector (HT1000). The H79's shelf mount put the projector 12" closer to eye level or center lens, I'm not sure how much extra gain I pick up with the lens 1/3 closer, figure .2 or .3 more gain.


Image looks bright with the H79 and even worked well with the HT1000. My main hope was to tone down the H79 which the Graywolf did.


I have both the HP and Graywolf permanantly installed now. I've a/b'ed the two many times and prefer the Graywolf with the H79 and the HP with the HT1000.


----------



## freychris42424

I asked optoma if they would make the screen bigger and they said no, biggest is 106.


Chris


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With my ceiling/shelf mount the PJ center lens is at 6.5" up from the floor, 12' back from the screen. Where am I at now?
> 
> 
> What I did with the HP and the light meter is, face the meter to the screen just off side of the lens, then same facing I dropped the meter to where my eyes would be. I got a .08 difference.



It is the percentage difference that matters here, as you found with the half gain.


With 6.5' up from the floor and 12' back I get around 14 degrees off angle. Here is how I calculated that.


6.5' is 78". Assuming that the viewer's eyes are at 42", this is a difference of 36".


12' is 144". Draw a right triangle with 144" across the bottom and 36" for the height. The tangent of an angle is the opposite length over the adjacent length. In this case 36/144 = 0.25. Bring up the calculator in Windows under Start-Accesories and put in Scientific mode under View. Put in .25, click the Inv box, then hit the tan button. The result is 14 degrees. And 14 degrees would be a little under .7 gain for the table here if 1.4 is the peak gain.


--Darin


----------



## guitarman

What made you see peak gain at 1.4 instead of 1.8? How about the HP material, isn't it higher than the stated 2.8? 3.2 I read posted here somewhere.


Trying to figure a way to use the light meter to judge actual screen gain? Just ran this test to see differences in off screen level. I'll get a 2.00ftcandle read with the Graywolf, 3.0ftc with a mat white and 4.00 with high power. These are taken close up to the screen sensor facing the screen.


I just took a viewing area reading using the HP screen and got 1.8ftc at lens level and 1.0ftc at viewing level. Which is what I got the last time I checked. I figure the dropoff off .08 which is less than half, puts the HP screen with a ceiling mount at 1.7gain, that's if the true gain is 2.8.


----------



## FlyingGimp

Has anyone had any luck tracking someone down at Optoma who will take care of replacing a white screen with a gray one? So far I've had no luck. I got a message asking if I'd bought it directly from Optoma and replied, but have had no response as yet.


----------



## guitarman

The email system is slow (snail mail), it's best to call cust service, you'll find phone numbers at the website.


Ofcourse you'll have to do exchanges with the place you bought it from. Did you buy it from Optoma Direct?


----------



## FlyingGimp

I've been on hold a few times with Optoma support (just got hung up on/disconnected a few minutes ago). I bought from buy.com.


Darinp got his from bhphoto which definitely drop ships directly from Optoma. In his case Optoma would be doing the exchange.


I'm going to try to get Optoma to send me a gray screen either via purchase or exchange. It seems like there's no guarantee anywhere online (buy.com, bhphoto are both sending the wrong screens and bestbuy lists the 92" as white), so if Optoma can't deliver directly then I guess I'll stick with my old matte white for the time being.


----------



## Rickknyc

I got a 92 inch Gray Wolf from buy. I ordered in Tuesday night online and it arrived Friday with standard ground shipping. Only problem is UPS put a few dents in the case - it is not very well boxed - but I decided it is not worth the bother to return since they are not too visible.


----------



## guitarman

Rick in Ramones land, how does it look?


----------



## FlyingGimp

Rick,


Is the screen gray and is the case white with GrayWolf on it? Both of my matte white buy.com screens have had black cases with "MovieTime" written on them.


----------



## Rickknyc

The case is white and says Gray Wolf on it. It is very light and easy to install. The pull down mechanism seems to work well. For the price, it seems like a steal.


The screen looks very good - there are no sparkles or wrinkles when viewing it so far in a limited try out. I am currently using it with an old Sony 400Q with an old bulb so it is not very bright, so it is a bit dim but very watchable. It works a lot better than my matte white with a little ambient light. I will try it this weekend with my Toshiba MT700, which is very bright - it should be good combination. It


----------



## mystery

How many lumens on that Toshiba Rick?


Wayne


----------



## miltimj

1000 for the Toshiba MT700 -- it is indeed a bright projector, enough so that many are using ND2 filters in a light controlled environment.


All this talk of the wrong screen being sent is making me nervous.. mine gets shipped tomorrow, so I'll report back then.


----------



## FlyingGimp

After Rickknyc's positive experience with buy.com, I ordered yet again from them. I know I'm a glutton for punishment. Or maybe I just have faith... $100 cheaper than bestbuy keeps making me come back for more pain. I need a return policy in case I hate the texture or the line like darinp got.


Anyway Rickknyc - I blame you if I end up with three matte white screens.










I agree that the Panoview screens seem well made. I'm somewhat tempted to keep one of my matte white screens. No visible waves at my 8-10 ft seating distance (there are a couple *very* minor ripples that can be seen from 2-3 feet with no image on the screen, but I think most/all non-tensioned screens will have these. My work has a lot of Model B Da-Lites, which are wavy like crazy.


----------



## dookie1

bad news Tim...


i ordered the 106" graywolf from Amazon the day before you did. it arrived today...


black case, white screen, dented.


grrr!


dookie


----------



## miltimj

Oh great... well I guess I'll mentally prepare myself for a return..let me know how yours goes (I'm assuming you're returning it?)


One question for those who have received it already... how does it get mounted? Are there brackets, and if so, are they adjustable to the point that you could find a stud and mount it there, or would you have to put some kind of bracing between two studs and attach it to that? Are people ceiling mounting the screen, or wall mounting?


----------



## dookie1

no worries on the return apparently...


amazon no longer lists the graywolf, so it won't be an exchange. they are however providing a pre-paid shipping label and full credit once they receive the return.


for what it's worth, mounting options (on this non-graywolf) are at the endpoints only...either keyhole slots on the back of the endcaps or d-rings running through the top of the endcaps.


time to start shopping again...


dookie


----------



## Ja Phule

Looks like a nice screen. Anyone using this screen with a table mounted set up? Would it be too bright to use with the Infocus 4805?


----------



## guitarman

The 106" lines up with the wall studs at my house. I use L-brackets and threaded hooks, the threaded hooks allow you to adjust for perfect leveling. You can nail these flat on the wall, it's tricky finding a level spot though. The screen is light so if studs don't match you could probably use butterflys and be ok.


----------



## dookie1

just got off the phone with optoma...


the sales rep confirms 'thousands' of graywolfs in both sizes currently in stock in their warehouse. they caution that if the vendor you order from does not explicitly state 'graywolf' on the drop-ship order, a white screen will be sent. and if you order from a vendor with their own stock (i.e. - not drop-shipped from optoma), it's up to you to make sure the vendor understands what you're looking for.


i suggested perhaps a different part number was in order...amazingly optoma thinks it's clear enough. DS9106-PMG anyone?


sheesh...


dookie


----------



## madpoet

I' actually considering this to replace my hi power just because of waves! They are driving me freaking batty







. DaLite actually replaced my screen once under warranty, but is refusing to do so again.


----------



## HeadRusch

I thought the High-Power was supposed to be about as resistant to waves as a non-tensioned screen can get?


Do you think you will fare any better with this one?


What are you doing, taking Tarzan swings on the thing!?!?!


----------



## madpoet

Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy







.


A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.


----------



## batorok

madpoet,

I thought the retroreflective properties of the highpower made waves less/invisible when actually viewing video, do you find this to be the case? I have been very close to buying a dalite HP or this optoma, as my matte white dalite has very visible waves now...but if that won't solve the problem, I may have to get more creative.


----------



## HeadRusch

The Craptacular Freebie ELITE 100" I got with my H31 also has the V waves....if I pull on one of the upper edges of the screen I can eliminate the waves but honestly they dont bother me enough to really care.



*yet*













As we all know in this hobby what you ignore today you tirelessly obsess over tomorrow.


"Must...Converge...One...Last...LINE....MUST.....CONVERGE..."etc


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *madpoet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope. It just gets them in a V pattern from the pulldown center out to the top edges. I've got the Model B Hi Power with CSR, and it still waves like crazy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> A tip for those with the white case, get black duvytene (sp?) tape. It's meant for photography work and all. I bought a 25' roll cheap online, and taped it to the underside of my case right up against the screen opening. Completely eliminated the annoying reflections, and looks pretty good.



My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.


Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.


----------



## boarder

So what do people think of the GrayWolf and a Panny AE700 ? I've been looking to replace my blackout cloth screen, and currently have HP and Graywolf as my first 2 choices and maybe an HCCV as a third. I'd like some extra gain, but I don't know if the HP is too much. I don't know what the 700 actually puts out in lumens vs stated.


The Gray might help the percieved blacks on the 700. Its really hard to tell with the micro-sample I got from Da-lite, but I understand its free







Obviously, opinions are welcome. I'd like some small ambient light rejection, but not looking for any miracles.


----------



## chengka

I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.


What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?


----------



## guitarman

The Graywolf would help the Pany out greatly. Your black level will be much better, colors will be deeper. For your projector I'd choose it over the HP material. Not sure the HCCV material in non-tensioned will be free of waves with video on it. If it's not retro-reflective you'll be seeing waves with your video.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chengka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think this was asked earlier, but with the numbers growing, I'll ask again.
> 
> 
> What do you think of this as a candidate for removing from the case and affixing to a frame? Is the backing too thick for wrapping around a frame?



It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is the percentage difference that matters here, as you found with the half gain.
> 
> 
> With 6.5' up from the floor and 12' back I get around 14 degrees off angle. Here is how I calculated that.
> 
> 
> 6.5' is 78". Assuming that the viewer's eyes are at 42", this is a difference of 36".
> 
> 
> 12' is 144". Draw a right triangle with 144" across the bottom and 36" for the height. The tangent of an angle is the opposite length over the adjacent length. In this case 36/144 = 0.25. Bring up the calculator in Windows under Start-Accesories and put in Scientific mode under View. Put in .25, click the Inv box, then hit the tan button. The result is 14 degrees. And 14 degrees would be a little under .7 gain for the table here if 1.4 is the peak gain.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Darin,

I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a thicker material than my HP and Mat White but it's plenty flexible. How do you plan to attach it to the frame?



I fancy staples, probably to the side or back of the frame. I'd lose the built in matting, but I could add that easily enough.


----------



## MGD

A minor miracle happened today. The UPS guy drove up indicating he had 3 packages for me. I had expected the projector (PE7700) to arrive but surprise, surprise, the 92" graywolf screen arrived as well as a HDMI cable from RAM. Nice to have everything come at the same time.










I had previously ordered the screen from Buy.com but like others received the wrong screen. With some intrepedation, I then ordered the graywolf screen from BHphotovideo and it came as ordered. Looking forward to seeing how the PE7700/graywolf perform together.


----------



## Rickknyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Audionuttt* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_.../10390774.html



I ordered it using the link in this post from Audionuttin this thread. I just clicked on it and it is showing Gray Wolfs in stock.


----------



## hmbeal

I went and ordered from Buy.com but thought I would let people know that I talked to BB.com and they confirmed that both the 92" and the 106" screens are labeled Graywolf in thier online order form. I'll let you know how my Buy.com order goes.


----------



## jonnyozero3

I just ordered from buy.com as well. The price was too good to pass up. If I receive the correct screen from them I'll just return the one I paid retail for to BB and enjoy the new one







It said the 106 is on order btw.


Also, I had a few updates on the screen to add to my previous tome of comments:


1) I was originally going to post a more negative thought about the texture on the screen. I have, however, already become more used to it than before after several days of viewing.

2) There is one glass bead (yes just one itty bitty teeny tiny one) that makes a flaring bright spot less than the size of a pixel (I cannot stress how tiny it is), but only when viewed from the far left seat in my setup. It doesn't bother me much, but it's there for that one seat. I doubt anyone else *not from an a/v forum* would ever notice.

3) It is a PITA to retract this screen if the top casing is not secured well. I had to yank and pull about a million times to get it to work since mine is hanging from chains in the ceiling. When my g/f came downstairs and held the top case in place it worked smoothly and just fine. Keep that in mind so you don't beat the hell out of the screen like I did in frustration.

4) I can see one or two minor waves in the screen, but they are hidden by images - unless there is a horizontal pan like in the text on the HQV test disk. I can see the subtle bend, but it isn't bad. Just wanted to make a note that waves can exist in the screen. It would benefit from being tensioned, but it would be a minor improvement and not normally noticeable.

5) I had a group of people over this weekend, and several are interested in HT in at least a cursory manner. A few asked how much the screen cost and gasped when I told them three-hundred. They were impressed.


I think I had other things to say, but it's getting late and I'm forgetful. Time to go read harry potter.


----------



## guitarman

Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.


----------



## madpoet




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My HP screen has the least physical waves I've seen but still I have some. The Cosmo electric has a huge roller which helps. Anyway if you view straight on you won't see waves with video or a blue screen either. Same deal with the Graywolf. If knowing the phyiscal waves are there bothers you, you won't be happy with the Graywolf non-tensioned.
> 
> 
> Alot of the problem is the roller, I even tried stuffing pen light batterys at the center case. I did away with the V-waves and turned thme into straight waves. No win situation.




I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass







.


----------



## Audionuttt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds good John, yes the list is low but I'm very surprised at the deal level these are going for. I hope AVS picks up on them with similar so we can get the better service to boot.



That and I wouldn't mind a 120" wide (horizontal- 130" in 2.35 to one) variant.


106" is a bit smaller than I'd like


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *madpoet* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree, straight on no waves. If I go slightly off axis though they become all too noticeable to me. If the Greywolf is the same, then I'm going to have to pass
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



Yes if you look at the screen from a side angle you can see wave shadows with video.


----------



## madpoet

Thanks Tom. Someday I'll convince the wife to let me redo the basement and have a fixed screen


----------



## HeadRusch

I'd love a 120 incher, thats probably my perfect size...but for that size screen I'd need a PJ with lens-shift of some sort.


I'm tempted to order this screen if Toms giving it the thumbs up of pproval, and the price is right, but now I'm afraid of getting the wrong one in the mail!


----------



## ssj2

Good news, B&H had the correct screen drop-shipped. My wife just called to tell me the screen arrived. The carton is labeled Graywolf, and the casing is white. This is a minor miracle given that B&H assured me I would be getting a Graywolf with a black case, which we know doesn't exist.


I'll be spending all night at my son's basketball game and won't be able to check it out. Should be able to post my opinions tomorrow.


----------



## batorok

no one has answered the cleaning question- How does optoma recommend one clean the graywolf? That was one advantage the HP has, you can wash it (vs dalite's regular glass bead screen, where washing rubs off the beads...)


----------



## ssj2

Batorok, the manual available on-line recommends using a "very soft duster brush gently to remove foreign particles."


----------



## HT cOz

Lets keep thinking of ideas on how to get it mounted in a frame. I have a plexiglas screen that I painted, could this screen be glued to the plexiglas?


----------



## ssj2

Well I opened up the carton and there are about a 1/2 dozen dents in the case -- two of which are rather significant. Oddly, the shipping carton doesn't look bad at all. This one's going back.


I did pull out the screen to have a loock at the material. This is one very gray gray screen. Nothing at all like the sample of Dalite's HCMW screen.


----------



## Randy S

HT cOz - I don't see why not; you could use aerosol contact cement to attach it to the plexiglass. What sort of frame do you have for the plexi? What size?


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What made you see peak gain at 1.4 instead of 1.8? How about the HP material, isn't it higher than the stated 2.8? 3.2 I read posted here somewhere.



I think the High Power is somewhere in the 3.2-3.4 range right at the light source. I did measurements from different angles with the High Power and GrayWolf and that is where I got a multiplier of something like .43 between the two. This put the peak gain for the GrayWolf around 1.4. I wouldn't worry about the specs so much as they also say that the GrayWolf has a 100 degree viewing cone. I believe that the viewing cone is supposed to be inside the half gain angle, which means it is more like 25 degrees according to the data I have.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Trying to figure a way to use the light meter to judge actual screen gain? Just ran this test to see differences in off screen level. I'll get a 2.00ftcandle read with the Graywolf, 3.0ftc with a mat white and 4.00 with high power. These are taken close up to the screen sensor facing the screen.



I'm not sure what to make of those since you got a .5 multiplier from the HP to the GW if those are right, but would also indicate only 1.5 gain for the HP and .67 for the GW (based off the matte white).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just took a viewing area reading using the HP screen and got 1.8ftc at lens level and 1.0ftc at viewing level. Which is what I got the last time I checked. I figure the dropoff off .08 which is less than half, puts the HP screen with a ceiling mount at 1.7gain, that's if the true gain is 2.8.



What you say "at lens level" do you mean that you are about as close to the lens as you can reasonably get, or that you are off to the side? If off to the side then you wouldn't get the peak gain since the horizontal angle matters also.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chengka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am wondering how this number would change across the vertical height of the screen? A 92" screen is 45" high. With the top at or about 68", the center of the screen would be at 45.5" That would put the center of the screen at 1.2degrees off axis to the viewer. But, the light striking the center of the screen is at a 8.9 degree angle from the lense. Does that mean it leaves the screen at the same 8.9 degree downward reflecting 1.8 gain at 22.5" lower still? This may be overdoing it, but I'm curious as to the effects across the screen. We always talk as if the screen is a point, but it is a very large surface given the distances involved. Is the gain significantly different across it's surface? Is the perceived gain worse still at the center of the screen, given the scenario described?



You are right that the gain won't be exactly the same over the whole screen. This goes into hotspotting and unformity though. The uniformity with this will generally be better if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewers. For a viewer sitting just underneath the lens, the angle that matters for determining the gain is the same for the spot at the same height as the viewer's eyes as it is for the spot at the same height as the projector lens. It would be easier to draw the two triangles and show that the angles are the same than to do it here though. Also, once you start looking at the horizontal offset you will see that the angles are somewhat different at different points across the screen, so different gains. However, if the projector is at the same distance from the screen then the images should be a lot more uniform than with a high gain angular-reflective screen (which is most other high gain screens). The reason is that in that case the angles used are from the reflection out to the sides and the line from the viewer to the screen, so the center of the screen should be brighter than the far sides in that case. With a retro-reflective screen the angles used for the center of the screen and the edges aren't a lot different if the projector is about the same distance from the screen as the viewer is. Move the projetor a lot closer or a lot further away with a retro-reflective screen and that no longer becomes the case though.


I hope at least some of that makes sense.










--Darin


----------



## miltimj

Well, I received my screen from Amazon yesterday -- or should I say, someone else's screen? (Because that's whose its going to be some day...) They sent me the white panoview (black case) as well... I think I'll put up the two screws to hang it (grr.. they had to have the keyhole brackets be 98+" apart, instead of 96"..) So I'll see how it looks (though looks very similar to my Parkland Plastics sheet at first glance). Then I'll be sending it back, and probably ordering from B&H as others have had success there...


----------



## Airboss

There is some confusion with the part numbers for the Optoma Gray Wolf screen. To insure you get the proper screen look for one of the following part numbers: for the 92" screen DS9092PMG or DS-9092PM-G or DS 9092PM G,

for the 106" use DS9106PMG or DS-9106PM-G or DS 9106PM G. The Gray wolf screen have the "G" or "Gray" at the end of the part number.


Optoma also has the Gray Wolf screens listed as DS-9092PM and DS-9106PM but using these numbers you may get the wrong screen since they have another screen which uses the numbers DS 9092PM and DS 9106PM (no "-" between the letters and numbers). This is the white screen with the black case. I have a link to a Yahoo store which carries these screens and shows all of them on one page. Not sure if it's OK to post a link to a store page or not, if it is let me know and I will post the link.


Randy


----------



## guitarman

"What you say "at lens level" do you mean that you are about as close to the lens as you can reasonably get, or that you are off to the side? If off to the side then you wouldn't get the peak gain since the horizontal angle matters also."


About 6 inches in front of the lens was working good. I tried just to the side also and the reading was similar.


Someone mentioned it's gray gray not like HCMW. That's what I first noticed, how dark gray it is, almost like there's some black in there. I have it permanently installed along with the HP screen. I can have a half/half setup to see the difference. The Graywolf is quite different from the HP. Much darker, making blacks deep and colors are looking stronger and pretty accurate also.


The Graywolf is flush with the ceiling and I make use of the large black border on top. The border is a big help at keeping light reflection off the white case.


----------



## mpgraphix

Sounds good - i'll probably be trying out this screen as well


jon, how long u been in papio? i used to go to school there


----------



## Bajajim

I'm new to HT and just got a Panasonic AE700U and am considering getting the 106in Graywolf. It will be going in a 12' x 18' room with the PJ on the rear wall. My question is how far up the wall should the PJ set to obtain the best possible picture - I was thinking that it should set about even with the center of the screen. Is this optimum? any comments would be appreciated, thanks


----------



## bootron

i still really feel like you need some lumens hitting this screen to get it to work perfectly. on-axis this screen is plenty bright and a gray high power would not need be any brighter. however the viewing cone was indeed distractingly narrow and the gain drop off was obvious (at the 1.8 gain i really was expecting a 100 degree viewing cone, and this was probably my biggest disappointment). the best thing about this screen is that off-axis the colors and details all seemed much better than my high power. for some reason off-axis the high power looses the punch and doesn't look quite as good. however the gray wolf just seemed a little too dark off axis for me. the high power seems brighter off-axis and the vibrant colors don't seem lost unless you move in and out of the cone or you can compare it directly with the graywolf. sitting in the cone with the lights on is fine because this screen still does a decent job with keeping colors and contrast, but its peak brightness isn't that of the high power and so things seem muted because they just lack the pop.


a high power has a silky image quality. its hard for me to explain but the screen surface is smooth, you don't notice any waves, and it probably feels more digital and 3d. the gray wolf has a very cinema quality about it, and you also don't notice waves (my screen had less waves than my high power, but what was there was invisible). everything seemed richer and more detailed, even though the picture was softer. you could get right up to the gray wolf (with the 2 projectors i tried) and have trouble finding screen door which was a definite advantage. the gray has many many attributes to it, but i think we are not far off from a better screen but will probably cost a few more dollars. this screen can be found relatively cheap and the build quality is nice, but the packaging sucks. dents are a quarantee, but who cares because its white and you will most likely cover it up. the border was amazing. a nice drop black border at the top and the sides was a bonus over anything from da-lite. it really will make you appreciate the effect a black border has on perceived image quality. one problem i had was the blasting seemed to be done to the border also. it was hard to notice but if you use the border for overscan and light up the black parts you will notice that there is gray flecks that shimmer (very disappointing.) also, since this screen is glass beaded i worried about constantly rolling up and down and although i never tried (but wish i had) i wanted to try and scratch off the flecks from the border just to see how easily the screen could be damaged.


if you want local pickup look around i'm sure there are stores that carry this screen. i decided it wasn't for me, but its still a decent screen. for those of you watching in the dark and in a non-dedicated room this screen might be the answer. its manual roll-up so it will hide away. the border is a wonderful bonus that will help hide your white walls.


bestbuy and micro center both have this screen listed on their websites at around the same price. MC only has the 92" available and its listed under panoview.


----------



## bootron

the projector will be brightest the closer to your head it is. i'm not familiar with the offset of the ae700 so somebody will probably be able to help you more. relative to the screen isn't going to help anybody give you optimum performance. instead relative to the viewer is whats important.


----------



## HeadRusch

If this thread isn't BEGGING for some comparison shots (50/50) I dont know of one that IS










HiPower vs Greywolf

Matte White vs GreyWolf


..uhh..cheaptacular Elite Freebie vs Greywolf


----------



## Bajajim

Bootron


thanks for the info


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bajajim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm new to HT and just got a Panasonic AE700U and am considering getting the 106in Graywolf. It will be going in a 12' x 18' room with the PJ on the rear wall. My question is how far up the wall should the PJ set to obtain the best possible picture - I was thinking that it should set about even with the center of the screen. Is this optimum? any comments would be appreciated, thanks



Sounds like you'll have the ideal setup, wish I could do that. Have it as close to your viewing area as possible, you'll get some good gain. Plus the blacks will get much better for the Pany. That Pany is a very birght projector also, defintely an excellent match for the gray screen.


----------



## guitarman

Sorry, here's the whole slew of graywolf pictures with the H79.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf2.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf3.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf4.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf5.jpg sharpness off pj&oppo
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf6.jpg sharpness off pj&oppo
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf7.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf8.jpg oppo sharp off PJ mid lvl
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf9.jpg oppo/pj/sharpness on
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf10.jpg 
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf11.jpg 


The dicussion came up in the DVD forum re Oppo and sharpness levels.



Projector calibrated by me, using Colorfacts and the Gretag Eye-one directly off the screen.


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ja Phule* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like a nice screen. Anyone using this screen with a table mounted set up? Would it be too bright to use with the Infocus 4805?



Anybody?


I have the 4805, too, and will probably table mount in my bright (white walls and ceiling) living room. There's one window which I'll add drapes to. What do you guys think?


----------



## guitarman

Yes Graywolf would be an excellent match for the 4805. You'll see less SD, better blacks, colors, brightness will be at a better HT level. Someone up around page 3 got one for his 4805 and loves it.


----------



## irallamecniv

Excellent, thanks!


----------



## HeadRusch

So where's the best place to order this thing with the understanding that you'll actually GET the right screen.


?????


I'd be intersted in the 106" version


----------



## newsguy

I see you are recommending this screen for the panny 700, will a Z2 or Z3 be a good match for this screen?


----------



## guitarman

For sure with the Pany because it's a bright projector, not up on how bright the Sanyo's are.

The pany reads out at 0.18 & 13.5. 13.5 tells me it's a pretty birght projector that could benefit by the gray screen. It will still be plenty bright and pick up a much better black level.


----------



## KenLand

Any chance they'll put this in the insta-theater?


I'm starting to think that without dark screen material its absolutely impossible to get a good image in normal ambient light.


See this post by Kevin and Darin. We're talking lower than 100:1 !

CR at Ambient... 


Yet CRT direct views and plasmas and RP's, all with dark screens do just fine with the same peak whites.


If you have .5-1 footlambert of ambient and 12-35 footlamberts peak white you have 12:1 to 70:1 CR on a white screen.


Ken


----------



## newsguy

This is a really dumb screen question, (I've always projected onto the wall) but do waves on pulldown screens appear from lots of rolling up/down? Meaning, could I have a pulldown screen in the "down" position all the time and avoid waves?


----------



## bootron

probably not. most screens just have waves straight outta the box and there is nothing to be done about it. leaving it down would help, but cutting the material off and stretching it over a DIY frame is the best thing to lose the waves


----------



## HeadRusch

My Elite screen had waves right out of the box the first time. However, mine aren't all that noticible unless I look for them. They SEEM to be less pronounced, however, if I leave the screen down for a length of time...I guess gravity, over days and days, lets the screen stretch and settle just a little bit...takes the edge off the waves....


----------



## ronaldk988

Well, my SP 4805 is now perfectly ceiling mounted ( 2 foot drop on a cathedral ceiling) on a home made Plexiglass mount (thanks to Tim's plans). I don't see much of a difference in brightness. And I love having the projector out of the way!


Ron


----------



## HeadRusch

Amazon now only shows 1 available, and its used.


Buy.com is sold out, and they are shipping the wrong screen to pretty much everyone anyhow.


BestBuy has it..but guess what...its MSRP, making it more expensive than a DaLite HiPower, so no bargain (and no sale) there...











Woe Is Me


----------



## ronaldk988

I bought mine via BestBuy.com - do they price match to other internet dealers?

Ron


----------



## ronaldk988




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes Graywolf would be an excellent match for the 4805. You'll see less SD, better blacks, colors, brightness will be at a better HT level. Someone up around page 3 got one for his 4805 and loves it.



So now I'm somebody up on 3!?! Actually, I'm somebody up on page 2!!!!!! (just kidding!)


But the my SP 4805 looks great on this screen. I bought the 106" model. I was using the 76 Infocus screen that came with the projector when I bought it. I love the 12" leader on top, the free in focus screen didn't have any border on top.


And don't forget the great bonus of getting high the first hour you use the screen!!!


Ron


----------



## miltimj

I pulled out the white version/black case that I got (was supposed to be the Graywolf) from Amazon. I have it hanging with it pulled all the way out, and the extra black on the top makes me want to paint the whole wall black...


Anyway, the white screen is pretty decent, but I think I'm going to go to Best Buy and pick up the Graywolf and A/B it, since the mounting should be the same (I put two screws 98.75" apart near the ceiling).


My wife was getting a headache from the smell... fortunately (I guess) I had allergies kick in this week and can't smell much of anything right now. Glad you like your mount, Ron.


----------



## Airboss

Theres another place that carries the Graywolf. I don't have five post yet so I can't post a hyperlink. If you Google for "ds-9106pmg" the link will show up as the only search result. Prehaps someone who can post hyperlinks will post it. The price is cheaper than BB.


I've ordered mine from them just a day ago so it hasn't arrived yet. This is the store I spoke of in an eariler post.


Randy


----------



## Jefftaz

Has anyone tried the screen with a H31?

I currently have the Panoview in matte white and like it a lot, waves are not too bad but I do notice them on occasion.


----------



## Audionuttt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you Google for "ds-9106pmg" the link will show up as the only search result. Prehaps someone who can post hyperlinks will post it. The price is cheaper than BB.
> 
> Randy



http://store.salestores.com/optoma3.html 


MAN I WISH these came larger!


----------



## Airboss

Audionuttt, thanks for posting the link.


----------



## Audionuttt




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Audionuttt, thanks for posting the link.






Not too hard to google.


----------



## hmbeal

Well My Buy.com order showed up today and is going back, recieved the movietime screen that everyone else has. This is unacceptable for a company to continue to do this to its customers.


----------



## ssj2

Humbeal, was your screen poorly packed and dented all over? I'm nervous for the replacement I'll be getting.


----------



## hmbeal

The screen packing was poor at best but luckily it was not damaged. I talked with Optoma today and they are happy to replace the buy.com screen with the Graywolf but I would be responsible for the shipping which is going to be $60 so I think this one goes back to Buy.com. As far as Salestores, they have terrible customer service .


----------



## irallamecniv

So, it looks like my best bet would be to get this from bhphoto, right?


----------



## miltimj

It's looking like that, irallamecniv... I'm going to be picking it up from Best Buy sometime in the next couple days and A/Bing it with the matte white I was sent by Amazon. Maybe I'll like the matte white better; then it'll be easier to just return the gray to BB. If I like the gray better, I'll return both and get it from B&H I think. We'll see...


----------



## hmbeal

Just an update I talked to Optoma again and explained the shipping rates to them. Optoma is going to issue a call tag and pick up the shipping charges. Talk about A++++ service


----------



## guitarman

It's ridiculous how many wrong screens are being sent out by the online store. You'd think after the first two mishaps the shipping and order department would catch on. A mgr at buy.xxx s/b be contacted to straighten out the sales order/ship team.


----------



## irallamecniv

Hey guys,


I've had my 4805 for about a month or two (my first pj) and I love the damn thing. I've only started researching and learning about screens yesterday, so I'm still pretty green. Anyway, I'm almost entirely set on the Graywolf, but I've noticed lots of High Power love around here, so I was wondering if you guys could give me your recommendation between the two, or any other possible alternatives. Here's my situation.


My budget for the screen is around $200-300ish. I'll be projecting in my living room with only one window to worry about. I'll probably get drapes for it, so light control should be pretty decent. I plan on table mounting (I can't ceiling mount - I'll be in an apartment). It'll be a bright room (white walls and ceilings). I'll mostly be watching DVDs, playing a videogame every once in a while, and probably some sports (mostly football once the season starts). It would be nice if I didn't have to watch football in a cave. Most of my viewing time will be DVDs, though.


My lamp has just under 100 hours on it, so it's relatively new. I also slapped an ND2 filter on the pj. I'm planning on having a 106" diag picture, sitting about 13-16 ft back with the throw about the same, give or take. I do prefer better contrast and deeper blacks and a theater-like look than having an extremely bright plasma-like image that pops.


If someone can confirm that the Graywolf would work well in a room with moderate to low ambient light for occasional sports on TV, I'm sold. In the end, though, I care a lot more about DVD viewing. Thanks for putting up with all the noob questions, guys.


----------



## mystery

Either a High Contrast Matte White or the Greywolf would be perfect for you. These gray screens will deepen your perception of blacks and contrast ratio. You need a screen that will diffuse the reflections of light bouncing off of your light colored walls and then back onto the screen.


I have both the High Power and HCMW. I preferred the HCMW when my walls were off white. Once I painted them a semi-dark green, the HCMW looked way too dark and I bought the High Power which gave the images back the punch that they lost after painting.


Your Infocus 4805 is a bright projector and should work well with one of the gray screens. So, you've got a bright projector, bright walls and you prefer a more theater like presentation. In my experience and opinion, until you darken your walls, your best option is to go with a gray screen and since you want a 106" one, I'd go with the Greywolf because of the extra gain. Especially so since you'll be table mounting and making use of most of the 1.8 gain.


Wayne


----------



## guitarman

Same opinion here, but find a place that knows what screen type they're sending out. Research the where to buys in this thread. Ask for Garywolf 1.8 gain in the white case.


----------



## HeadRusch

So Tom, this screen really is the real deal huh? The ELITE screen is more of a silvery than a white, per say, or so my eyes tell me...that probably accounts for the sparklies and why the blacks look not-too-bad........but I am so tempted now to go with this GrayWolf based on your statements.


So this thing really wakes an H31 up then huh? No real negatives??


----------



## irallamecniv

Thanks guys, your input is very much appreciated.


----------



## guitarman

With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000


----------



## mystery

Good for the H57 too!










Wayne


----------



## foxdvd

Not to get into price, but you might want to try out pcnation.com Good price, and free shipping. Also, very good place to shop from.


----------



## HeadRusch




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000



A shame since I just ceiling mounted mine...


Guess I'll stay with the elite awhile longer, although even with lower gain it can't actually hurt can it.....?


----------



## guitarman

It's not bad but I think you would miss the brightness.


----------



## dannypanny









HeadRusch.I got the 100'' elite freebie with my purchase of infocus 4805.I hate that screen.So I ordered a graywolf and got a mattewhite.I was going to send it back but i said what the heck,and so I took down the elite and up went the panoview.I think it looks very good.So i'm going to keep the mattewhite .It works for me.


----------



## Greg Matty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the H31 you're better off table mounting with the Graywolf. You'll like the inceased brightness this way plus the black still stay better. It would be an excellent match with the H31 for that setup. This screen is best for bright projectors like the Pany or 4805, H79, Z2000



That is disappointing to hear. I am about to upgrade to an H31 and insist it be ceiling mounted. My X1 has been on a table top for the past two years and is too close to my seating area so I am finally going to mount it to the ceiling tomorrow. I also hate having all the cables strewn about the floor. I guess I can always go with a different type of screen like the Matte white. Good thing I read all eight pages here.


Greg


----------



## FlyingGimp

But lowered brightness may be attractive depending on your pj's brightness and screen size. A gray retroreflective screen should be a *far* better than an ND2 for lowering brightness, since it should minimize secondary reflections from light bouncing around the room. And you also can get good bang for your buck darkening just the "in the line of fire" wall space.


Of course I have no real world experience as I just received my third white screen from buy.com... Back to on hold with Optoma.


----------



## HeadRusch

I dont hate the Elite screen myself, in fact, for all intents and purposes I have no real problem with the image the H31 puts out when projected on it. Its just that I know when looking at it that I'm looking at the bottom of the barrel, so when a screen like a GrayWolf comes out I immediately know I can make the image a whole lot better for just a few dollars (comparitively).



I'm sure some purists and HT snob-types can point out a dozen different areas where the Elite screen fails miserably, the only thing that bothers me about it is that I saw the screen texture appear and sparklies in a few scenes in one movie I watched, it was only distracting for a moment. But at the same time, I know I'm using the same screen technology that my grandfather used in the 70's for projecting his vacation Slides


----------



## Randy S

FlyingGimp - I presume Buy.com is covering all return costs and you're only out time and a fair amount of frustration?







Has _anyone_ received the correct screen from Buy?


----------



## FlyingGimp

They pre-pay the return shipping and I'm expecting a full refund of the original amount. If not then I think I have Amex on my side. I am taking a picture of the screens/boxes just to prove they're white 1.0 gain screens.


BTW, on the first wrong screen I did notify Buy.com, but they seem to just send a form reply so I doubt anyone noticed. From what I've read on the net phone calls are routed to India where you get read the same form letter.


Buy.com also seems to be dropshipping from distributors. My last one came from Ingram. Ricknyc probably got his from an east coast warehouse which has the right model screen.


----------



## miltimj

I picked up the Graywolf at Best Buy today and watched four chapters of Band of Brothers with some ambient light in the room (about 80% dark). Multiple people preferred the Graywolf to the matte white Panoview. I'm not so sure I like the texture of the graywolf as much as the panoview though. It seems like the matte white would be better for HDTV, and the graywolf for movies. Or maybe it's just that the graywolf is better with very good light control, and I need to get better control over that in my setup if I want to continue to use the Graywolf.


I still have a couple weeks to decide between the two, and will be going back and forth quite a bit. On another note, my wife really can't stand how bad this thing smells.. it's only been 12 hours that it's been out though; it's now in the garage with a fan blowing on it. She's sensitive to things like that though, that's for sure.


----------



## HeadRusch

So what were the pluses on the Greywolf.........deeper blacks, bright picture? was anything noticibly muted, and did you recalibrate for the new grey display?


I understand that any retroreflective screen is going to give you that issue if you sit close that you'll be able to make out the screen texture.....The only real option there is to sit further back I'm guessing.


I really want to drop the hammer on one of these but now Tom has me all scared it'll be too dark


----------



## miltimj

I'll elaborate a bit, as a few things have sunk in since I posted last.


I have a ceiling mounted projector, lens at 78". Screen is about 32" off the floor. Viewer height is about 42".


The brightness is definitely different between sitting and standing, about 30-40% brighter standing. The difference in brightness left to right (as in, a 160 degree angle) is very minimal. I'm using a brighter projector (PE7700) in economical mode. One friend in particular mentioned how much better he liked the Graywolf... I can't remember the adjective he used, but something about being fuller/richer/engrossing. I suggested that the matte white looked more washed out than the graywolf and he absolutely agreed. The graywolf definitely gave darker blacks, though in some of the darkest scenes I thought that it might have been even too dark, but I think that was the scene, and not the screen causing that. The matte white was an overall brighter picture, but more washed out as I said.


Regarding the texture, I wouldn't want to sit back any further for this screen size (106")... (nor can I, given the size of my room). It's something I'll probably have to get used to if I choose it -- I was used to a very smooth Parkland Plastics bright white (plain) screen.


I didn't calibrate between the two displays -- perhaps that would make the gray look even better. I think it's more calibrated toward the white, but I haven't really messed with that. Maybe I will, but I think I'll be able to choose between the two without having to recalibrate each time.


Unfortunately, it'll be easier on me logistically if I return the graywolf (easier to return to best buy), because if I want to keep it, I'll end up returning both screens and buying from an online store because it's cheaper. I'm trying not to let that influence my decision too much though.


Oh, let me reiterate that if you have a totally light controlled room, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy/keep the Graywolf. I'm just trying to fight with some ambient light issues as well.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I picked up the Graywolf at Best Buy today and watched four chapters of Band of Brothers with some ambient light in the room (about 80% dark). Multiple people preferred the Graywolf to the matte white Panoview. I'm not so sure I like the texture of the graywolf as much as the panoview though. It seems like the matte white would be better for HDTV, and the graywolf for movies. Or maybe it's just that the graywolf is better with very good light control, and I need to get better control over that in my setup if I want to continue to use the Graywolf.
> 
> 
> I still have a couple weeks to decide between the two, and will be going back and forth quite a bit. On another note, my wife really can't stand how bad this thing smells.. it's only been 12 hours that it's been out though; it's now in the garage with a fan blowing on it. She's sensitive to things like that though, that's for sure.



My wife belly ached about the smell but it did disapate quickly. It was like that for my HP screen.


Headrush, yes it does deepen the black level greatly, which is the best part I like about the screen. My H31 is wearing down, too much moving around and testing, this burns the bulb down quickly. You may try the graywolf and love it with your H31. At $150 maybe you should give it a look. For sure you'll pick up the no waves with video part and ambient light rejection..

See what you think.


My guess is you'll see a much deeper 3D image with better color, less wall and ambient light reflection. A deeper more colorful picture overall.


----------



## Jefftaz

Headrush,


If you do get the Graywolf please report back on how it matched up with the H31. There are a number of us H31 owners that would like to see if it would be a good option or not. I currently have a Panoview in matte white and am not sure if the Graywolf would be a imporvment - but am curoius


----------



## HeadRusch

Last night at about 1:30am, after slogging it out with TEAM AVS in Battlefield 2 for many an hour, I decided I wanted to watch a movie, so I popped in War Of The Worlds (the original).


This was also the first time I noticed I was crushing blacks to an unacceptable level. While the ELITE screen was doing a pretty good job with the projected image, I could see now that I was over-compensating for the screen by dialing down the H31 and, as a result, crushing my black levels. Oh sure I was getting decent blacks, but at the expense of details. Now I'm even more tempted to go with a GreyWolf, so I can bring the balance up on the H31 and let the screen help with the deeper blacks.


I have some other ticket items to order today (new camcorder and digital camera), I will probably add the GrayWolf to that order since they sell em where I'll be shopping.


PS: The GrayWolf I think is in this weeks BestBuy ad (at least here on the East Coast), along with a full page spread on Front Projection. Only 1 system is shown (Mits DLP) but its the first time in any recent memory that I've seen a major retailer even promote the concept of front projection, with a huge graphic and "simulated projected image" kind of thing showing people who dont know "what a front projector is". Interesting.


This can only mean 2 things:

1) If more people buy in, cheaper prices, cheaper bulbs

2) The AV snobs will now need to find new ways to one-up their fellow man







"What? 100" Screen? Pfeh...everyone has one of those now....we just added a full multiplex onto our house with 20 foot screens"


----------



## SKoprowski

I currently have a Panasonic XGA projector (PT-LC75U- which was a good HT projector 3 years ago) and a Dalite Model B HP screen. Do you guys think I would benefit from the Graywolf screen? My projector only has a 400:1 contrast ratio and I was looking for somethng that would improve my image while I save up for a major upgrade next year. I have a local Microcenter and was thinking about picking one up.


----------



## HeadRusch

I just ordered a GrayWolf from B&H, so hopefully by this time next week I'll be able to give you guys my untrained-eye Opinion of the thing and how it mates with the H31 ceiling-mounted.


I also noticed waves in my cheapie screen last night and found them distracting in some areas.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Well, Buy.com has failed me as well. I emailed them this:



> Quote:
> Hello Buy.com,
> 
> >
> 
> > My shipment actually hasn't shipped yet, and I understand that my screen is
> 
> > on order. But, I wanted to double check something with you.
> 
> >
> 
> > I spoke with several people who have purchased this Panoview Graywolf
> 
> > screen from your site but were shipped the incorrect Matte White version of
> 
> > the screen since both versions share the same part # in your database.
> 
> >
> 
> > I wanted to ask you to send a note with my order to the warehouse asking
> 
> > them to verify that the outside of the box says "Graywolf 1.8 gain" in big
> 
> > bold letters. If it does not and you cannot locate the correct 106" screen
> 
> > then please hold my order until we can try to work the issue.
> 
> >
> 
> > I appreciate your time and consideration in this matter - I'm only trying
> 
> > to save time and money on shipping for both of us by catching the problem
> 
> > before it happens.
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks again.
> 
> >
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Jon O.



Unfortunately this was their response:



> Quote:
> At Buy.com we strive to provide the widest assortment of high-quality products at everyday low prices. However, sometimes circumstances beyond our control affect our selection.
> 
> 
> We regret to inform you that supplier is unable to fulfill the order. We would request you to cancel the order and place a new order for it.
> 
> 
> We sincerely apologize for this inconvenience. Please note you will not be charged for this cancelled item. If you have any questions, please visit customer support



So, this tells me that they do not have graywolf screens in the warehouse that services Nebraska. It doesn't make sense to place a new order as they request, so I think I will take my business elsewhere.


I don't want this thread to degenerate completely into a vendor discussion, but I thought everyone should know that even if you are very very specific about what you want it probably won't work.


----------



## FlyingGimp

I bet that's just the form letter that's the closest match to your request (i.e. the response to someone asking to change their order). Just order from buy - you'll soon have a sweet-ass stack of matte white screens in your garage like me!


----------



## dannypanny

I can relate.


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, let me reiterate that if you have a totally light controlled room, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy/keep the Graywolf. I'm just trying to fight with some ambient light issues as well.



What about for watching sports? Do you think I'll have to watch football in a cave in the morning or afternoon?


----------



## KenLand

Tom or someone who has the correct Greywolf screen -


Can you tell me how gray the screen is with the lights on? How dark is it? Any pictures anywhere? Is it as dark as the Goo Screen Digital Gray?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## HeadRusch

Someone said its very grey...darker than the Dalite and Carada grey, or so I read here in another (or this) thread....


The Dark Grey gives the deep blacks, the glass beaded surface over it I guess is what punches up the gain so colors aren't muddied out and brightness isn't hurt....(???)


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irallamecniv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What about for watching sports? Do you think I'll have to watch football in a cave in the morning or afternoon?



I have one light in my living room which points up toward the ceiling. I've watched my Graywolf with this light on and it is watchable, but I prefer watching with the light out.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KenLand* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom or someone who has the correct Greywolf screen -
> 
> 
> Can you tell me how gray the screen is with the lights on? How dark is it? Any pictures anywhere? Is it as dark as the Goo Screen Digital Gray?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ken




Here are some pics I took of my Graywolf screen, hopefully this will help you judge the grayness. Hand held Nikon Coolpic 990 with flash, straight-on and from the side.


Sorry, see next post.


Tried to add URL but unable due to only 4 previous posts, should be able to add URL now.


----------



## Airboss

Ken, here are some pics of the Graywolf screen.

BTW, in these first two photos you can see the line across the top of the screen that someone mentioned in an earlier post. I spoke to Optoma and was informed that the line should go away. It is noticeable in bright scenes.

Graywolf 1 

Graywolf 2 


A couple of screen shots, Graywolf and Sharp DT300. These are the typical 'Leeloo' shots. Same camera, hand held, no flash, once I get a tripod I'll shoot some more.

Leeloo 1 

Leeloo 2


----------



## dannypanny

Nice,I wish I had a graywolf.


----------



## KenLand

Thanks Airboss!


Not as dark as I was hoping, but definitely darker than my WidePower and HighPower screens. I went to my local BB to try a Greywolf, but no stock.


Ken


----------



## talon_3

HI all,

I have been following this thread with much interest thanks for all that posted reviews and screenshots. I have an Hitachi Home -1 and would like something to help the blacks. I have the "all white walls" and even though it looks good I am maybe looking on investing in a screen. It will have to be put up when not in use as there is a door way. Will it survive that?

My projectors sits just under eye level between two recliners so it sounds like I should be right at the right height for this screen yes?.

I have a fairly dark room using blackout cloth on the windows but do have some ambient light in the daytime.

The image I project is less than 70" diag.

Here are the specs on my projector..

● Three 16:9 LCD Panels

● 854x480

● 700 ANSI Lumens

● 800:1 Contrast Ratio

When in whisper mode the light output is more like 285 lumens.


Would this work better than gettng a High Power 1.8 gain Da-lite?


Thanks for all the posts!!


P.O.


----------



## ssj2

Ken, the shots Airboss posted do not reflect the gray of the screen. It's quite dark. I only had mine for a day before sending it back due to the badly dented case. But it's nowhere near as light as the shots posted.


----------



## KenLand

Steve,


I'm looking fwd to try it. I hope my local BB gets it so I can return if I'm not impressed.


Anyone know if you can return a BB web purchase to the local B&M?


The local BB flyer had a 106" Optoma screen special. Is this the GW?


Thanks,

Ken


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI all,
> 
> I have been following this thread with much interest thanks for all that posted reviews and screenshots. I have an Hitachi Home -1 and would like something to help the blacks. I have the "all white walls" and even though it looks good I am maybe looking on investing in a screen. It will have to be put up when not in use as there is a door way. Will it survive that?
> 
> My projectors sits just under eye level between two recliners so it sounds like I should be right at the right height for this screen yes?.
> 
> I have a fairly dark room using blackout cloth on the windows but do have some ambient light in the daytime.
> 
> The image I project is less than 70" diag.
> 
> Here are the specs on my projector..
> 
> ● Three 16:9 LCD Panels
> 
> ● 854x480
> 
> ● 700 ANSI Lumens
> 
> ● 800:1 Contrast Ratio
> 
> When in whisper mode the light output is more like 285 lumens.
> 
> 
> Would this work better than gettng a High Power 1.8 gain Da-lite?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the posts!!
> 
> 
> P.O.



Because of your setup I think the Graywolf would be best. You'll get the gain plus the added black level, wall color reflect rejection, a ton of pluses really.I'd try one out.


----------



## KenLand

Where is everyone getting these? Optoma says the part # is DS9092PM. There are a ton of online suppliers, but the descriptions don't match. Some will say 1.8 gain or Glass Bead and then Matte White.


Anyone figured out this confusion?


For the price its worth trying on a whim.


Ken


----------



## KenLand

Just ordered from B&H. They have the full correct description that gives me the warm fuzzy. Also nabbed a Hoya mulit-coated ND filter










Ken


----------



## jkirk

The pcnation site lists 2 Optoma electric control drop down screens, a 133" 1.1 gain and a 103" 0.8 gain. I don't see these on the Optoma site and no details are provided on the pcnation site. Does this mean that a wider electric would be possible soon? Has anyone had any experience with the performance of these electrics?


----------



## miltimj

Ken, what projector are you using? I have a relatively bright projector (BenQ PE7700), and I wouldn't want it much darker (I'm trying to compare when it's dark here, since I don't have total light control). In other words, I'm not going to be using an ND2 filter, and almost prefer the Graywolf with the PJ in normal bulb mode, as strange as that seems (I'll be calibrating soon).


Also, as Steve said, Airboss's screenshots don't show how very gray the screen is. (Thanks for the pictures anyway though, Airboss..). I have both the Matte White and Graywolf screens right now, and will take a picture of both of them side by side tonight, if I get a chance.


----------



## miltimj

Here are a few screenshots comparing the Panoview Matte White (that many are mistakenly being sent instead of the Graywolf), next to the Graywolf.


Here is the setup for these comparison shots:

- Graywolf is on the top, Matte White on the bottom.

- Picture taken from viewing position (just above top of couch)

- Ceiling mounted BenQ PE7700 used with normal light mode

Ambient Light, No Flash (How they look/compare normally)

Ambient Light, With Flash (It looks opposite because the Graywolf is high gain and reflecting directly back to the camera)

Ambient Light, No Flash (Picture is blurry due to the motion involved..notice difference in water color between the screens)

Dark room, No Flash (Pic of birds) (Picture blurry due to shaking the camera...)

Dark room, No Flash (Pic of Bonds) 


Now that I've seen them next to each other (which typically favors the white screens), whether in ambient light or a dark room, I'm favoring the Graywolf by a decent margin. Time to send them both back and get a better deal online... If anyone else is looking for a specific comparison shot with these two, let me know. I have an HD source, SD source, DVD, and computer as options.


----------



## KenLand

Tim,


Thanks that's just what I wanted to see. I'm realizing that your black level and therefor CR for a given peak brightness is determined by your projector in the dark, but by your screen color when there is ambient light. Thats how direct view CRT's and Plasmas and RP's work so well all day.


All a projector or any display can do is take away light. Therefore black is what's left. Your "Ambient Light, No Flash" tells the whole story.


I'd like to find a screen that is close to a directview CRT or Plasma without power. Then use a projector that can put out a bright image. Now you can use your projector all day and all night.


This screen isn't as dark as I'm looking for, but its much much darker than my current screens and cheap enough to try. The retro-reflectivity is a big winner.


Ken


----------



## irallamecniv

Thanks for those pics, Tim.


----------



## steinre1

Great pics, tim. I'm down to the graywolf or the high power. The deciding factor for me will be which one of those handles ambient light better (for a ceiling mount). Anyone have those pics of those 2 side by side?


----------



## talon_3

Thanks for the advice Tom, and thanks for the screen shots Tim. Looks good!

Now where did I leave my money...


----------



## LoneAspen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just ordered a GrayWolf from B&H, so hopefully by this time next week I'll be able to give you guys my untrained-eye Opinion of the thing and how it mates with the H31 ceiling-mounted.
> 
> 
> I also noticed waves in my cheapie screen last night and found them distracting in some areas.



HeadRusch - That's exactly what I was going to do, order the screen from B&H, and use it with a ceiling-mounted H31.


Please let us know how that works out, and what the image quality is like with the H31 on the ceiling. I'm very curious. Thanks!


----------



## KramerTC

Speaking of waves. I can now see the waves on my Greywolf on some fast pans. They aren't bad but they are there. It's only on some pans, not all. I think ceiling mounting the projector may have made them more visible since the brightness decreased a little.


It's still a very good screen. Just don't expect wave-free nirvana.


----------



## guitarman

You want waves, http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/waves.jpg 

That's the Dalite Video Spectra.


Looking at Tim's pictures, excellent job by the way, it proves my point. Hard to see waves with video on the Graywolf and Mat white.


----------



## miltimj

Agreed, Tom. I forgot to mention that -- I haven't seen any waves at all yet (on either screen), though probably only 10 hours of viewing total.


----------



## guitarman

Yeah it's the reflectivity. Here's the High Power which has the same physical waves as the Video Spectra above.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/highpower.jpg 


But not to down play Kramers findings. With panning you can detect a motion if you look for it, the key is you don't see shadows/dark toned V-waves like in the Video Spectra shot. You'll just see white.


----------



## HeadRusch

YIKES...thats some bad waves, man!


----------



## KramerTC

Tom,


The Graywolf screen I have shows nothing like those waves in your pic of the the Video Spectra material. Like I said they are rare and have only happened on a particular type of fast pan.


With no image projected and all the lights on the screen has very few waves and they are small. Not the huge V kind that runs from top to bottom accross the height of the screen. The quality is better than what I expected at this price for a non-tensioned screen.


I paid MSRP locally at BB because I wanted to make sure I was getting the right screen and also have the flexibility of returning it if I didn't like it.


This screen coupled with a Sharp DT-300 makes a front projection rookie very happy


----------



## utente

I tried a search for h30 but didn't get anything. So, sorry if this has been addressed:


Would this be a good match with an h30?


----------



## MikeE

Ok, I have caved into peer pressure







I ordered a 92 incher from BH. My Model B Video Spectra looked exactly like the one Guitarman posted. I was just so ashamed..................


----------



## guitarman

Good move, we weren't alone with the video spectra, I saw many photos of members with the HCMW complaining about the all time waves. You'll most likely love the new screen. You don't hear many complaints about how it helps video, everybody wants to keep it. Me too


----------



## mystery

Yes, I have the HCMW screen model B with a tensioning bar from Da-Lite and the waves look exactly like Tom's picture with the video spectra. This is a gray screen by the way. In contrast, my High Power screen exhibits some very small waves without an image projected onto it but once the lumens hit the screen, there isn't one wave that's visible. Not one!


Wayne


----------



## Bajajim

Foxdvd,


I couldn't find the Graywolf screen at the site you mentioned, any further information?


----------



## Assayer

Can anyone else comment on the severity of the Graywolf's texture? Is it a sparkle like the HCCV or more of a subtle brightness variation between adjacent plxels similar to fixed pattern noise on an LCD? I realize it will be most noticable in fast pans, but how visible is it in stills or slow moving shots?


The smoothness was one of the things that originally attracted me to my high power screen, but a light room decor coupled with a white screen is not helping my ansi contast.


----------



## miltimj

I would describe the Graywolf's texture (from a reasonable distance, ie >3 ft) as a uniform sparkling texture. It's probably similar to the HCCV, except it's gray obviously, but I don't have a direct comparison that I can make between those two.


I've taken two pictures from closeup near the screen, in the same location (though not exactly), one with the flash off and one with it on.

Graywolf Screen Closeup - No Flash (This is what it looks like closeup normally)

Graywolf Screen Closeup - With Flash (This is what it looks like when viewing an image... it's more subtle with an image of course, but this is somewhat like the "background" of the image)


----------



## guitarman

Love that gray







I've been running the HT1000 with the Graywolf and it looks great. The HT1000 isn't a super bright projector either. Go gray!


----------



## Jefftaz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Love that gray
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been running the HT1000 with the Graywolf and it looks great. The HT1000 isn't a super bright projector either. Go gray!



So us ceiling mounted H31 owners should be good to go on this screen Tom?


Personally I would like to throw a 92 inch diagonal picture about 12 feet to the screen.


----------



## foxdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bajajim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Foxdvd,
> 
> 
> I couldn't find the Graywolf screen at the site you mentioned, any further information?



http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?item=F29043


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxdvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?item=F29043



Would anyone care to comment on whether or not this one is Gray or White? That looks like a matte white screen part number and the description doesn't mention gray. Too bad too, I'd have to grab one at that price with free shipping.


----------



## utente

Based on everybody's comments and the screen shots, I'm ready to get one. But, before I order it I'm curious if anybody knows what it would be like with an H30.


Thanks


----------



## HeadRusch

Patiently Waiting for the B&H dropship to arrive now.......hopefully this week (it had better be this week!).....saving up Constantine to demo with the GreyWolf.


Elite Screens Days are numbered........I can smell its fear...


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chengka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on whether or not this one is Gray or White? That looks like a matte white screen part number and the description doesn't mention gray. Too bad too, I'd have to grab one at that price with free shipping.



If you go to Optoma's site the part number matches. But I would get someone on the phone and detail you want the Graywolf 1.8 gain screen in the white case.


----------



## Ximori

I got the Gray Wolf from my local Best Buy store after reading this thread. Never have I realized how much of an impact this screen can make to my current set up. I've had my Sony HS20 and parkland plastic for years now and thought it was time for improvement.


I've always limited my viewing size to 92 b/c whenever I go larger and beyond 100 from my 13-14 ft viewing distance, noticeable sde and loss of light gets apparent. I took a chance of grabbing the 106 Gray Wolf since there weren't any other sizes available. And once I popped in the image I was very impressed with the picture. Brighter and more vibrant colors in the correct seating position were quite enjoyable to watch; just couldn't believe I was able to get this vibrant image at this size, w/ hardly any loss of light. And not only were the colors, but the blacks as well improved boosting the overall contrast image. It's quite remarkable; the chemistry between my Sony and this screen works so well and getting this screen becomes a more viable solution to an expensive upgrade.


However, there is one minor caveat. I can't really tell if screen door totally disappeared b/c there seems to be that grainy texture masking that effect. It's like the fixed pattern noise I saw on the Panasonic PTL300u images awhile back that made me favor the Sony. Quite interesting though how well this texture works on improving a sde image. I can't really explain why I seem to prefer the slightly dirty look to one having some noticeable sde but the overall image is very good - no distracting sde (w/c were prominent on my white screen at this size).


Also, having just experienced viewing the properties of a retro-reflective screen, it seems to work very well with gray screens. Even as I go with a larger size, there was hardly any loss of light on the image. And not only did it retain the vibrant image but allow me to expand my seating or viewing area as well. I wonder now if an angular reflective type of screen would even be more preferable for this situation. Does it share some similar properties w/ retro in shedding off ambient lighting, but instead giving you a wider viewing area?


Overall though, I really enjoyed watching movies on this screendefinitely a keeper.


----------



## foxdvd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you go to Optoma's site the part number matches. But I would get someone on the phone and detail you want the Graywolf 1.8 gain screen in the white case.




I called. They said they just gots these in. She had pictures of the product on her computer and she said that it was the Graywolf. White case, and that in the detail list it says it is a Graywolf. She also noted that they are selling very well. I plan on making an order for it Thursday, so I will know for sure by I would guess Monday if it is the right screen.


----------



## Itsdon

Really really dumb question here.... I currently have a Da-Lite HC 4:3 screen that is physically 84" wide (left to right), and that's about as big as my room can handle







Is the 92" diagonal GrayWolf screen also 84" wide?


OK, another dumb question (sorry!) currently my existing screen let's me watch SD/HDTV/1:85 (yikes) and 2:35 movies and all I need to do is adjust the height of the screen to match whatever I'm throwing up on it. Will the Graywolf, being strictly 16:9 eliminate some of those options. Thanks for indulging the noob.


----------



## Bajajim

I called pcnation and they only carry the 92in screen and have no immediate plans to carry the 106in - which is what I'm looking for.


----------



## miltimj

Itsdon, the 92" screen is 45"x80" and the 106" is 52"x92".


We need more information about your setup to explain how it will work for you. What PJ do you have (16:9? 4:3?). It seems that you essentially have a constant width setup. With a 16:9 screen, you will have kind of a happy medium.. HDTV & 1.85 movies will be very close or exactly this screen size, SDTV & 1.33 movies will have black on the sides, and 2.35 movies will have black on the top and bottom.


----------



## Randy S




> Quote:
> I called pcnation and they only carry the 92in screen and have no immediate plans to carry the 106in - which is what I'm looking for.



hmmmmm, it's listed on their website.....

http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?item=F29044


----------



## grandeau

Buy.com has a 10% off coupon, which brings the 92" down to under $120. Has anyone gotten the correct screen from Buy.com? A deal isn't a deal if you have to send it back...


----------



## Itsdon

Tim -

Thanks for the reply. I currently have a Sharp DT-300 (1024X576 Matterhorn) that is a short throw PJ ceiling mounted about 9'6" back of the screen. I currently run it in eco mode and have no problems. I have 8' ceilings and the PJ hangs down about 4" on it's mount, dead center to the current 84" Da-Lite. The PJ has a verticle lens shift which makes height adjustment quite easy. I expect I'll have to kick it to full power with the GrayWolf, right? I'm looking for basically 3 things, better blacks, more vibrant colors and better ambient light tolerance.


My room (and ceiling) are white and according to my significant other, will remain white. I do have 'some' light control (heavy curtains etc.) and actually do most of my viewing at night time but so far I've not been impressed with daytime viewing at all.


At 80" wide I'll be getting a smaller picture







that what I currently have and 92" wide simply won't work. Much as I hate going smaller, it's only a little bit and, perhaps worth it?


----------



## Randy S

I cancelled my order with Buy.com due to the quantity of incorrect shipments and lack of a clear answer from their customer service department as to which item would ship.


I exchanged email with PC Nation's support today; they were very responsive. This is what they sent in response to my request for validation of the 106" screen.


> Quote:
> Model: DS-9106PM
> 
> Part # : DS9106PM (gray)
> 
> Description: Cinema HDTV Gray Screen
> 
> * 106" diagonal; 16:9 Screen size
> 
> * 1.8 gain for enhanced image viewing excellence
> 
> * Gray Wolf(tm) enhance image black levels, shadow details and contrast
> 
> * Extra large black border for true wide 16:9 cinematic experience
> 
> Specification Datasheet
> 
> Detailed screen drawing
> 
> User Manual



Free shipping as well. Sounds like a deal.


----------



## miltimj

Randy, since it seems you'll be ordering it, let us know how it goes...










Itsdon, the Graywolf seems like a good fit based on what your challenges are, but the screen size is definitely up to your discretion. Keep working on your SO to be able to paint the room dark..


----------



## nowonder

Did anyone get theirs from B&HPhoto yet? Just wanted to check before I ordered that they are shipping the right thing.


thanks

--nw


----------



## spyfy

Any tips from Graywolf 106" owners about mounting this thing? Just picked one up at my local BB and I'm about to hang it.


----------



## chengka

Just ordered from PCNATION. Very nice rep, assured me it's grey. The price was just too good to pass up. I'll report back my impressions.


----------



## Itsdon

Yeah, me too. The more I read about it the more I want it. God, I'm a sucker for hype! I woulda been just fine with my 'old' screen if I hadn't heard about this. Ignorance is bliss.... (and this forum is dangerous!)


----------



## utente

I also ordered one from PCNATION today. Same experience, and he assured me that it's gray. I was hoping that somebody here could tell me what it's like with an H30, but I guess not. So, I'll see for myself and then report.


----------



## miltimj

I'd recommend mounting on the keyhole mounts, not via the metal loops, so you can minimize movement. I just measured exactly the distance between the two keyholes, and screwed in two 3" #10 screws through the drywall into a horizontal 2x4 that runs along the top of my wall, and had them stick out about 3/8" (very lucky since the wall I'm mounting on is a foot higher than the adjacent space, so they needed a horizontal nailer there). I mounted it near the top of the ceiling, and pull it all the way down, so I can make use of the extra black border on the top (beige walls), and it will rollup higher, near the white ceiling when desired.


The main unfortunate thing with mounting is that the mounting keyholes are something like 98.75" apart, which doesn't fit a 16" OC stud layout.


----------



## Bajajim

Randy S,


Your right, guess the person I talked to was not well informed - but it does appear that the 106in is currently on backorder, better get my order in quick. Thanks


----------



## Bajajim

Randy S,


I was placing my order for the 106in screen with pcnation when I decided to call, just to play it safe. I told Rebecca that I wanted to verify that the screen I was ordering was Gray and not white - she asked "is this the Optoma screen?" and then told me that the screens they were shipping were all white and were being returned. This of course is totally different from the info you obtained by email -- guess I'll wait awhile.


----------



## Itsdon

I sent an e-mail asking for clarification (since the site info is sparce) about the details of the product. Here is their response:


Hi Don,


Below are the specs on mfg# ds9092pm


It does not mention the case being white.


Model: DS-9092PM

Part # : DS9092PM (gray)


Description: Cinema HDTV Gray Screen

92" diagonal; 16:9 Screen size

1.8 gain for enhanced image viewing excellence

Gray Wolf enhance image black levels, shadow details and contrast

Extra large black border for true wide 16:9 cinematic experience

Specification Datasheet

Detailed screen drawing

User Manual


MSRP: $199

To Purchase


Cut and pasted right off of Optoma's website. I specifically asked about the white case and they didn't know. If Optoma is ONLY making these with white cases (as a previous poster mentioned) I should be OK. I'll know on Monday....


----------



## Randy S




> Quote:
> she asked "is this the Optoma screen?" and then told me that the screens they were shipping were all white and were being returned.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *utente* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried a search for h30 but didn't get anything. So, sorry if this has been addressed:
> 
> 
> Would this be a good match with an h30?



I'll try the H30 out tonight. My guess is yes, because it is excellent with the HT1000 which is ceiling mounted. The H30 I have is brighter than the HT1000 so it should work fine.


I'm expecting to see more vivid colors and much deeper blacks and a boost in contrast.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spyfy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any tips from Graywolf 106" owners about mounting this thing? Just picked one up at my local BB and I'm about to hang it.



Since mine needs to pull down in front of my RPTV I mounted it from the ceiling using the metal loops, see pic below. Screen does not move while viewing movies and no problem raising and lowering screen.

Ceiling mounted Graywolf


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bajajim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I called pcnation and they only carry the 92in screen and have no immediate plans to carry the 106in - which is what I'm looking for.



Bajajim, Best Buy carries the 106" Graywolf but they sell it at MSRP. I picked one up at BB but will be returning it since it has the discoloration across the top of the screen.


I've ordered another 106" from Sale Stores which is scheduled to arrive this Friday. Sales Store drop ships directly from Optoma so it should be the correct screen, I will know for sure Friday once FedEx arrives. Only problem is it takes so long to ship from west coast to east coast, i ordered this last Thursday.


Randy


----------



## spyfy

Anyone having a problem w/ their projector not filling out this screen? If I make the picture exactly wide enough then I have a 1.5 to 2 inch strip at either top or bottom depending on where I shift my PJ that has no video on it. Using AE700 and HD-Tivo hooked up via HDMI. I did not have this problem with my old DIY blackout cloth screen. The strip is slightly smaller maybe 1" to 1.5" when using component.


----------



## miltimj

I'm having a similar problem, but not nearly to that extent... I just measured and it's exactly 92 1/8" x 52". It should be something like 92 1/2" x 52"... The good part is you only lose a few pixels, and the black border soaks it in pretty well.


----------



## Randy S

From Buy.com's cancellation confirmation they sent....


> Quote:
> sku - 10390775 : description - GrayWolfT by PanoviewT 106" Cinema High Contrast HDTV Gray Screen



Someone in their purchasing or web development organization isn't reading the same spec sheet.


----------



## HeadRusch

I have the same problem with my freebie ELITE 100" Diagonal that came with the projector.

I basically futzed around with it until I had just about 1/2 an inch of overscan on either side of the screen (sounds like alot, but its not), but the top and bottom are centered just about perfect with the black bar.


----------



## spyfy

I'm also getting some hotspotting on bright screens. This with a ceiling mounted AE700. It's not bad and maybe it's more of a sheen than hotspot.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Re: PCNation


I placed my order with pcnation today as well. As soon as I did I called customer service and asked them to ensure that the box said "Graywolf 1.8 gain" on the outside. I heard the lady typing the note into the file. She was a little confused that I was so insistent about it but she was nice and took care of it. I am hopeful that I will receive the correct screen.


Re: Mounting


I mounted my BB-bought Graywolf using steel eye screws, some small chain, and some s-shaped hooks. It cost me a couple bucks. I would have used screws for the key holes, but because my drywall is only 1/4" thick with concrete behind it (no studs) I have to go through to the ceiling joists above. It worked, but I have some adjustments to do. I would definately reccomend the keyhole method to minimize movement as miltimj said; mine moves quick a bit when I try to raise or lower it. I've already scratched my wall a bit with the case.


Re: Image not fitting


My image also doesn't line up correctly, but I assumed it was a problem caused by the manner in which I mounted the pj. Either way I'm only losing about 4 pixels on the left side so I'm not overly concerned.


Re: Graywolf Texture


I am enjoying the extra contrast the graywolf provides, but I am going to audition other options as the texture contiues to nag at me. I don't think I'm actually losing any resolution per se, but there is the perception that the image is fuzzier. It's odd. I'm getting samples from Carada and Da-lite to see how they look in comparison. I'll post thoughts (But no photos since my camera will be out of town).


Here's a couple semi-fuzzy photos of the graywolf just for kicks...


----------



## D200




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spyfy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any tips from Graywolf 106" owners about mounting this thing? Just picked one up at my local BB and I'm about to hang it.



The easiest way to mount a pull down screen is to nail a .5" X 3" X [screen lenth]" piece of wood to the stud on the wall. Then put a screw on each end of the wood to hang the screen on using the wall mounting holes in back of the screen.


----------



## guitarman

"I'll try the H30 out tonight. My guess is yes,"


Verdict is yes the Graywolf matches nicely with the Optoma H30. Just like I thought deeper color, deeper blacks, still plenty bright in econo with 600hrs on the bulb. Man I forgot how great the H30 is. Very nice color and details in the blacks, low SD factor and very clean and sharp. No wonder this PJ was voted best deal budget buy.

enjoy


----------



## mystery

Hey Tom,


While you're rummaging through your attic looking for 'antiques'







, why not set up your H57? I'd like to hear what you have to say about that pj in connection with the Greywolf. What? You don't have an H57.
























If you don't have one I'll bet you know how to get one.







Any chance on trying this out for us H57 owners?










Wayne


----------



## guitarman

I missed the boat on the H57, really I wanted an H56 at one time. Any projector moderately bright will beneifit from the blacks and gain the Graywolf adds. The H57 is a bit of a light cannon I hear. Any LCD's will be helped out also, anything like the Pany AE700, Z3, Mits HC3.


----------



## herd1978

I ordered a graywolf yesterday through PC Nation... 92" for my 4805. One thing I did notice is that when I did a comparison b/w the 92 and the 106" screen was that in the decription, it states gray for the 92" and not the 106". The lady on the phone also assurred me the 92" was gray.


----------



## Randy S

I spoke to several individuals at PC Nation and Optoma this morning. Here's the scoop. The part number, according to Optoma (Marcia?), IS THE SAME for the matte white or gray. When the screen is ordered, the purchase order should specify GRAY somewhere in the description and Optoma will read this and ship the correct screen. Pretty weak IMO.


PC Nation gets their screens from a distributor, so the odds of getting a gray screen from their channels is a dice roll.










EDIT: For clarity, my conversation was focused on the 106" screen - PC Nation item # 6492-F29044-1316, with Optoma part# DS-9106PM (106IN DIAG MANUAL PULLDOWN).


----------



## herd1978

just spoke with a sales rep at PC nation again and she laughed a little when i asked about the optoma screen... she said that the 92" they have called the distributor and verified that this screen is in fact gray.... but the jury is still out on the 106". i guess i'll definately know friday


----------



## Randy S

herd1978 - You've hit on the differentiator; the main product descriptor for the 92" specifies "gray" at the end. The part number apparently identifies the screen *size* and the description calls out the screen *material*.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I missed the boat on the H57, really I wanted an H56 at one time. Any projector moderately bright will beneifit from the blacks and gain the Graywolf adds. The H57 is a bit of a light cannon I hear. Any LCD's will be helped out also, anything like the Pany AE700, Z3, Mits HC3.




Guitarman, and the Gray Wolf also allows a lower lumens pj to reflect back more vibrant images b/c of it's retro-reflectivity property, correct? probably it's stronger feature...


----------



## guitarman

With a lower lumens projector table mounting will about double the gain. Though from what I've seen with ceiling mounted pj's the image is bright, the improved contrast probably helps here.


----------



## Bajajim

Think I've found another dealer with the Graywolf at a low price, it says 1.8 gain screen, but it seems to be on backorder too. pagecomputers.com


----------



## Hughman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Any projector moderately bright will beneifit from the blacks and gain the Graywolf adds.



Since you're speaking of projector gains I gather the gains proposed are real ansi contrast readings as apposed to perceived. Have you had a chance to take measurements which could be compared to other screens such as your Highpower?


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nowonder* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did anyone get theirs from B&HPhoto yet? Just wanted to check before I ordered that they are shipping the right thing.
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> --nw




I ordered mine last Thursday and it was supposedly shipped Friday using 3 day shipping with no sign of it today.


----------



## edfowler

Got one at Best Buy last night. Will put it up tonight and see what all the fuss is about. How much is everyone saving off of this $300 screen anyway? Guess I'll have to read the rest of the thread.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Love the avatar man...Mal rocks.


People are saving....I'm not sure.....don't want to get in trouble...(Shhhhh...its around four point five, times ten, percent!)


----------



## nowonder




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered mine last Thursday and it was supposedly shipped Friday using 3 day shipping with no sign of it with today.



Thanks for the update... keep us informed.


--nw


----------



## ssj2

My 3-day shipping from B&H took twice that long, and they would never give me the UPS tracking number despite daily calls. When my screen arrived (drop-shipped from Optoma) the case was badly damaged, so I had to send it back, and am starting over with the 3-day shipping thing with B&H. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## HeadRusch

I received my order from B&H the next day, which is normal because I'm in CT and they're in NY and thats overnight via UPS ground. But the case from Optoma I have no idea when its due to arrive, because i have no idea where Optoma ships from. Its been 4 days so I'm hoping it shows up today or tomorrow at the latest.


----------



## LoneAspen

So is there any place out there people have ordered from that ships the correct screen 100% of the time, AND ships a dent-free case?


It's sounding like ALL of these companies are having problems either sending the wrong screen, or one so dented up people send it back.


Is any vendor out there right now doing it right?


Also, where are these Best Buys that have it in the store? I've checked several here in Colorado and none have it. Anybody know of a BB in Colorado that has them in stock? I'll pay more to buy it locally and know I'm getting the right thing.


Lastly, is it possible to order from Optoma directly?


Thanks


----------



## Randy S




> Quote:
> Lastly, is it possible to order from Optoma directly?



Yes, at MSRP.


----------



## LoneAspen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Randy S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, at MSRP.



Cool, thanks. I'd rather pay a little more and get it first-hand from Optoma. I get really bent out of shape when I have to return products through the mail, so ordering direct would work out better for me.


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bajajim, Best Buy carries the 106" Graywolf but they sell it at MSRP. I picked one up at BB but will be returning it since it has the discoloration across the top of the screen.



I was under the impression (from a previous post) that the discoloration you mentioned will go away in time (how much time, I'm not sure). I just picked up one of the 106-inchers from BB today, and I have the discoloration myself (the top of the screen is brighter than the rest of the screen where the protective plastic was in place).


I mentioned it to my wife, and she couldn't see what I was talking about. I even used a laser pointer. Still, she couldn't see it. When I finally stood up to show her where the line was...it disappeared. Seems like the viewing cone really changes the reflected light. She was off-axis to the left, so it was invisible to her. And when I got the projector, I switched from ceiling- to floor-mount, and the bright discoloration was invisible when my projector was ceiling mounted, and became apparent when I put the projector on a table.


Anyway, for the person who said they talked to Optoma and were told the discoloration goes away...has it gone away yet? Did Optoma give you an indication of how long it would take? I'm not worried just yet, as BB has a 30-day return, but I want to see if I should be placing an order somewhere else in the meantime.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeffinator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was under the impression (from a previous post) that the discoloration you mentioned will go away in time (how much time, I'm not sure).
> 
> 
> Anyway, for the person who said they talked to Optoma and were told the discoloration goes away...has it gone away yet? Did Optoma give you an indication of how long it would take? I'm not worried just yet, as BB has a 30-day return, but I want to see if I should be placing an order somewhere else in the meantime.



Jeffinator, I was the person that spoke to Optoma. They told me that the line would go away, but the person I spoke to did not know how long it would take. He said it would probably take more than 30 days. I've had my screen for approx. 2 weeks and the line is still there. It's only noticeable, to me any way, in very birght scenes such as a scene where the sky is bright.


Randy


----------



## Neo19

I ordered the 106" through B&H last Thurs, got a email saying it shipped 3-day UPS on Friday, and it showed up today about 5 min ago. The box had a big nick in the middle where it actually tore the cardboard. I opened the box expecting the worst but although it even tore through the plastic bag around the case, there was no damage (whew). So I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Optoma ships these direct for B&H so I couldn't justify MSRP. I'll get the thing hung tonight and tear down the sheet I've been using since my PE7700 showed up on Monday.


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> He said it would probably take more than 30 days. I've had my screen for approx. 2 weeks and the line is still there. It's only noticeable, to me any way, in very birght scenes such as a scene where the sky is bright.
> 
> 
> Randy



Hmmm. Not sure what to say about that...did they offer some sort of guarantee that it will go away? It's only noticeable to me under the same circumstances you mentioned, but it is indeed noticeable. I would hate to keep the thing for two months and then still see the line...I suppose I could point a fan at it or something to try to speed up whatever process has to happen for it to go away.


Is anyone out there using this screen with a floor-mounted projector NOT seeing the same problem?


On a more positive note, other than the bright area, I have to say that it makes my Parkland Plastics screen its b****, and is probably THE definitive bargain in screens today, even at MSRP.


I can't wait for my BenQ 7700 to arrive so I can really put the Graywolf through its paces!


----------



## Brajesh

Is everyone who's received the screen seeing this line on the screen?


----------



## Airboss

In the following pics you can see how the top part of the screen is a lighter shade than the bottom part. This is the discoloration that has been mentioned. It causes that part of the screen to show up lighter in bright scenes.

Pic 1 

Pic 2


----------



## guitarman

First thing I looked for because Darin said the protective plastic they put up top near the black masking made a line in his screen. He's had one for a while wonder if it went away Darin?

Mine when I took the P/sheet off it had no line. Definitely no discoloration.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/graywolfgray1.jpg 


Notice the fine Record Player setup







Yes I still play Albums, see Jimi Hendrix Axis bold as love.


----------



## Rich4av

Neo19 - does your screen have the plastic protector that causes the lighter area or did Optoma remove it?


----------



## utente

Tom-



Thanks for setting up your H30 to see how it looked. Can't wait to get my screen. My H30 image looks great (on a wall), and I can't imagine how much better it could be!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "I'll try the H30 out tonight. My guess is yes,"
> 
> 
> Verdict is yes the Graywolf matches nicely with the Optoma H30. Just like I thought deeper color, deeper blacks, still plenty bright in econo with 600hrs on the bulb. Man I forgot how great the H30 is. Very nice color and details in the blacks, low SD factor and very clean and sharp. No wonder this PJ was voted best deal budget buy.
> 
> enjoy


----------



## HeadRusch

WOAH thats pretty bad banding there....I hope when my screen arrives it doesn't show that same differentiation.......how does the plastic thing affect the greyness of it all....I mean, how could some plastic lead to such a discoloration!?!?!


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> WOAH thats pretty bad banding there....I hope when my screen arrives it doesn't show that same differentiation.......how does the plastic thing affect the greyness of it all....I mean, how could some plastic lead to such a discoloration!?!?!



On mine the area below where the plastic was shows some thickness to what was put on there, almost like fur. The part under the plastic was compressed down flat and thus the difference. I mostly only notice it on uniform colors that go across that line though.


I'm still trying to figure out how to get a replacement Graywolf for the white screen I got about 3 weeks ago. I got an RMA number yesterday, but I'm trying to figure out if they are going to pay shipping (I sent them an email about this) and I don't want to have to take 45 minutes to an hour to take this to the UPS office, so would like them to pick it up where they dropped it off. I'm not planning on paying extra shipping for their mistake that looks like it was caused by them using the same model number for 2 different products.


--Darin


----------



## Neo19

Rich, I don't know if the plastic is on the screen or not yet. I had it delivered to my work address and It's still in the box. I'll let you know.


----------



## guitarman

Sounds resonable, Optoma would see it your way. Emails are slow, call up the customer service or product managers and you'll get results.


----------



## miltimj

Darin, which retailer did you get it from? Straight from Optoma? I need to deal with returning a white screen to Amazon...


Regarding the plastic causing the banding, I didn't notice that at all on my Graywolf purchased from Best Buy.


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darin, which retailer did you get it from? Straight from Optoma? I need to deal with returning a white screen to Amazon...
> 
> 
> Regarding the plastic causing the banding, I didn't notice that at all on my Graywolf purchased from Best Buy.



Right. I didn't notice it either...until I moved my projector from the ceiling to a table, then it became apparent. You have a ceiling-mounted projector, right miltimj?


Is anyone with a *floor* or *table* mounted projector not seeing this band when looking at bright screens? Plenty of people aren't seeing the band, but if they have ceiling-mounted projectors, I don't believe they will see it.


For those of you that have seen the band, does it go away in time? Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that it was still around after two weeks.


----------



## miltimj

Yes, my PJ is ceiling mounted. The strange thing is I would imagine that I'd be able to see at least _something_ at _some_ angle, regardless of the PJ mounting, but I can't. Anyway, ignorance (or luckiness) is bliss in this case... although I'm probably going to return it and get a better deal... maybe I should get a different one first, then return the worse one...


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, my PJ is ceiling mounted.



I would think that even with a ceiling-mounted projector, you would be able to see something odd if you stood on a chair, up closer to where the light is being reflected back at the projector.


If you can't see anything from any angle, it probably means that those of us with the line have defective screens. Anyone else?


----------



## Earz

Mine showed up today from Optoma with the plastic and the banding at the top were evidently the plastic was.

I can see the lighter banded area at the top of the screen over 50% of the time so I sure hope it somehow cures or something.


----------



## Earz

BTW....my pj is shelf mounted.


----------



## LoneAspen

Regarding the plastic and banding on these screens...


I'm assuming this plastic stuff sticks to the screen? Like lightly adhesive'd on one side?


Anybody tried putting that plastic right below where it was, rolling the screen up for maybe an overnight, and keeping moving it down until the whole screen has been done? Maybe plastic'ing the whole screen would help with the banding?


Not sure if this would be good for the screen or not, but if people are going to return it anyway because of banding, maybe it would be something to try?


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LoneAspen* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Regarding the plastic and banding on these screens...
> 
> 
> I'm assuming this plastic stuff sticks to the screen? Like lightly adhesive'd on one side?
> 
> 
> Anybody tried putting that plastic right below where it was, rolling the screen up for maybe an overnight, and keeping moving it down until the whole screen has been done? Maybe plastic'ing the whole screen would help with the banding?
> 
> 
> Not sure if this would be good for the screen or not, but if people are going to return it anyway because of banding, maybe it would be something to try?



On my screen the plastic basically fell off after pulling the screen down....so theres not much if any adhesive involved here.....its more like a static cling.


There is a strong chemical paint like smell coming from the screen so I am hoping this band at the top cures out or something.


----------



## guitarman

That plastic thing is more trouble than it's worth. I figure they're using it to keep the newly done screens from sticking. The large black mask at the top from sticking to the backing mainly. If they have to use it it should be cut so it doesn't go on the video area. Next time I call in I'll recommend it.


If we had a tally I wonder how many got a problem and how many didn't.


Write me down for #1 with no problem


If you have the problem I'd keep it rolled up when not in use, it may help. Well at least help the crease. The lighter coloring I'm worried about.


----------



## MGD

The 92" that I ordered from B&H and drop shipped direct from Optoma had the line where the plastic film ends. The line is there but I haven't noticed a brighter band. But I haven't looked for it either.


Other than the texture that is most observable during shots of light colored bankgrounds, I'm very happy with the screen. This is my first screen and projector (BenQ 7700) so I have nothing to compare it to other than my 50" DLP Samsung. What I'm most impressed with is the quality of such a large picture particularly with HDTV sources (satellite and OTA) and DVD's through DVI output player using the HDMI input.


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you have the problem I'd keep it rolled up when not in use, it may help. Well at least help the crease. The lighter coloring I'm worried about.



There's no crease, per se, and no visual indication of a difference in texture on the screen at the point where it changes. But if you shine a bright, uniform image on the entire screen, and you're in a good position to observe the light bouncing back toward its source, you'll see it. I'm just (again) wondering if anyone with this thing has had the line disappear after a while...if not, I've got to start thinking about returning it.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jeffinator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There's no crease, per se, and no visual indication of a difference in texture on the screen at the point where it changes. But if you shine a bright, uniform image on the entire screen, and you're in a good position to observe the light bouncing back toward its source, you'll see it. I'm just (again) wondering if anyone with this thing has had the line disappear after a while...if not, I've got to start thinking about returning it.



No crease on mine either just a uniform band that is very easy to see at least half of the time.

Its like having an 8" strip of whiter screen at the top.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No crease on mine either just a uniform band that is very easy to see at least half of the time.
> 
> Its like having an 8" strip of whiter screen at the top.



Exactly, no crease on mine either, just whiter screen at the top.


I received my second Graywolf today, I ordered it through Sale Stores and it was drop shipped from Optoma. There were a couple of holes in the box it was shipped in and the screen case had a couple of dents by the pull down handle.


After hanging and removing the plastic strip I took some photos (see below). The banding is present but not as bad as my first screen. Although I did notice what appears to be a darker band below the top whiter band. The texture on this screen does not appear to be as uniform as the texture on the first screen.


On this second Graywolf the top band is not noticeable while watching a movie, unless you really look hard for it, whereas on the first screen it jumps out at you.


The darker band is also noticeable if you look for it.

Comparision of Graywolf screens 


Overall I think I like the first screen better. No dents, the screen surface is more uniform and hopefully the banding will go away. The darker banding on the second screen brothers me more than the top banding.


----------



## Earz

I am hoping the band at least some what cures and blends in as these screens seem to have a lot of potential for very little money.

I would actually like to buy a second one and mount it right up against the first on the ceiling and paint some black borders on one of them for 2.35.1 movies and use the other for 1.85.1 and hdtv.


----------



## chengka

My 92" arrived from PCNATION yesterday and I ordered it fairly late Monday! Free 3 day shipping rocks.


I have not opened it yet, but the box says Grayhawk, so it looks like PCNATION are in fact shipping gray screens. Now I have to hope I don't have the "plastic" issue.


----------



## miltimj

They must've sent you a Stewart Grayhawk screen..







(I know you meant Graywolf..) So it seems there's a valid 92" retailer... just need to confirm the 106". I think I may get it from one of the retailers that people have been having success at least getting the correct screen from, and then hope it's not too visibly damaged on the outside, and I can return that one to Best Buy and keep my one from BB; easier than packing and unpacking again.


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They must've sent you a Stewart Grayhawk screen..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I know you meant Graywolf..)



Don't I wish. I would take a Grayhawk RS in a second. Too bad Stewart wants so much for them.


----------



## g3dahl

My first post!


I ordered a 92" Graywolf from PCNation, which is due to arrive Tuesday. Has anyone had the band-across-the-top problem with this version?


Gary Dahl


----------



## William L Carman

I called Monday morning (PST) and ordered the 92" Graywolf video screen. As of

9:59 AM Friday morning, it still has not been drop shipped. I called yesterday to inquire about my order, and was told "this is normal.... it usually takes 7 to 10 days." I also was told (after I asked) that my credit card had already been charged! Just a little heads up for others (like me) that don't understand how the online thing works.


----------



## batorok




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chengka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 92" arrived from PCNATION yesterday and I ordered it fairly late Monday! Free 3 day shipping rocks.
> 
> 
> I have not opened it yet, but the box says Grayhawk, so it looks like PCNATION are in fact shipping gray screens. Now I have to hope I don't have the "plastic" issue.



so do you have the banding problem others have mentioned?

thanks


----------



## foxdvd

I ordered the 92" screen from pcnation late Wednesday, and it showed up today. It shipped from Texas, to Oklahoma, so that is why it got here so quick, but for free shipping, that was FAST. The box was in perfect shape, no dents. The plastic on the upper part of the screen that everyone has been worried about just fell off by itself as soon as I pulled it down. No line, and no faded color at all. Perfect from top to bottom. I currently have a Draper M2500. With a table-top H31 this screen blows the M2500 out of the water. Blacks are awesome. Dark scenes come alive. I have had a problem in the past with some parts of Star Wars episode 4, but all those dark scenes shine. Colors seem more vivid, and I had very little calibration to do with Avia going from the silver screen to this one. For the price, I would not think twice about getting it. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. A better deal in my mind then even the H31 or 4805.


I wasted money on the M2500.


----------



## jeffinator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxdvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The box was in perfect shape, no dents. The plastic on the upper part of the screen that everyone has been worried about just fell off by itself as soon as I pulled it down. No line, and no faded color at all. Perfect from top to bottom. I currently have a Draper M2500. With a table-top H31 this screen blows the M2500 out of the water. Blacks are awesome. Dark scenes come alive..



Sounds great!


But if you have a table-top projector and no line, looks like I should order another one and return the one I bought to BB.


----------



## joealtus

anyone have a link to PCNation for the graywolf? do they have both sizes?


----------



## g3dahl

Hi joealtus,


On the pcnation web site, enter "optoma" into the search box. When the results come up, click on the "miscellaneous products" link at the bottom. This will bring up a list that includes all of the screens they carry.


Gary Dahl


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *batorok* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so do you have the banding problem others have mentioned?
> 
> thanks



Nope, no banding. The plastic was there, the rear of the case is dented, but no damage to the screen. My projector is at 74" and seated eye height is about 39", seating just under 12'. Optoma H76 with under 50 hours. Previous screen was Draper M1300. VERY VERY poor light wall/ceiling color yellow/white







There is a difference in brightness from standing to sitting, but that's a good thing to me. I would not want to use it at 1.8 gain.


I did a quick AVIA contrast/brightness adjustment and popped in FOTR and ROTK. I like the improved blacks. I'll have to watch some more neutral colored films and I'm curious how The Incredibles will look.


To me there is a sheen/sparkles similar to HCCV. In the past, this bothered me when viewing HCCV samples. One manufacturing "defect", they sprayed the beads on the black matte. Don't really need reflective coating there! For $135, I'm giving it a chance


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxdvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered the 92" screen from pcnation late Wednesday, and it showed up today. It shipped from Texas, to Oklahoma, so that is why it got here so quick, but for free shipping, that was FAST. The box was in perfect shape, no dents. The plastic on the upper part of the screen that everyone has been worried about just fell off by itself as soon as I pulled it down. No line, and no faded color at all. Perfect from top to bottom. I currently have a Draper M2500. With a table-top H31 this screen blows the M2500 out of the water. Blacks are awesome. Dark scenes come alive. I have had a problem in the past with some parts of Star Wars episode 4, but all those dark scenes shine. Colors seem more vivid, and I had very little calibration to do with Avia going from the silver screen to this one. For the price, I would not think twice about getting it. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. A better deal in my mind then even the H31 or 4805.
> 
> 
> I wasted money on the M2500.



Sounds good glad you like it. You do get improved colors and more important higher perceived contrast ratio because of the blacks and the gain, less reflections also.


I told my contact at Optoma about the plastic protector Panoview is using. I suggested they not let the plastic enter the video area.


The Incredibles was mentioned. This was the first movie I checked out with the Graywolf. You won't believe how incredible it looks with this screen.


----------



## HeadRusch

Has anyone ordered from B&H Photo? I ordered and I knew it was going to be a dropship, but probably direct from Optoma or whoever they farm out their warehouse business to.


Problem is, its been a week and no screen. I dont even have an idea of when or what method they used to ship it. It cost $20 bones to ship, I'm guessing thats either UPS ground or FedEx Supersaver.


B&H has been polite in their emails but all I get is "We haven't heard back from our distributor, when we get info we'll let you know". Which translates to "When it shows up on your doorstep, you'll know your screen has arrived...and not before!"










I'm in CT...was just curious if anyone who ordered from B&H received theirs, where it shipepd from, and how long it took to reach you. I dont mind the price at B&H, but I was expecting to get much speedier delivery than its taken so far.


...and mostly I'm pissed cuz I had a whole bunch of "lets test the graywolf" movies lined up for today


----------



## William L Carman

HeadRusch: Please read my post further up this page. I am having the same problem with

B&H Photo. I ordered a 92" Gray Wolf screen last Monday morning (Pacific Daylight Time.)

It still apparently hasn't shipped! I called their number Thursday, and was told that this was "normal" and that it usually takes 7-10 days!! (But they charge your card immediatly!


----------



## ssj2

Ditto. Shipping has taken longer than promised for me from B&H photo as well.


----------



## MikeE

Ordered from B&H Monday 7/25. Still waiting


----------



## Rich4av

Maybe Optoma has put the screens on a "quality hold" given all the returns and problems?


----------



## Randy S




> Quote:
> Maybe Optoma has put the screens on a "quality hold" given all the returns and problems?



We can only hope. With the varied reports of inconsistent splotchy finish, bands, and part number confusion, Optoma/Panoview needs to clear this up.


----------



## HeadRusch

So it looks like we're all in the same boat, although all of us apparrantly ordered within the past week. 7-10 days for a dropship? Thats kinda nuts.....wish I had known that before ordering.....I might have given the PCNation guys some business...but I was ordering other things from B*H anyhow, I just tagged the GrayWolf onto the bigger order


----------



## guitarman

Tracking numbers would be nice. Probably a problem for them since a second party is doing the shipping.


There's no short supply, I heard there were tons at the factory.


----------



## kel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeE* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ordered from B&H Monday 7/25. Still waiting




Mine was shipped, according to invoice, on 7/25. Got my tracking number yesterday. Says that it is due to arrive on Aug 1. Also says it really shipped on 7/26. So you might get yours on Monday as well.


- Kel


----------



## HeadRusch

Oh I'm not worried it wont show up.......I just wanted it, you know, yesterday










When its shows up, it shows up......I was just curious to see where it shipped from, since I'm on the East Coast.


----------



## NoMore

I read entire thread today, I think I'm in for the Gray screen, probably not for another few weeks when I get my 4805 and ceiling mount (this is for a basement setup). Thank you very much for all the pics!


----------



## guitarman

You bet, for the 4805 and your setup. Deeper more 3D image, colors, (Still very bright).


----------



## kel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh I'm not worried it wont show up.......I just wanted it, you know, yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its shows up, it shows up......I was just curious to see where it shipped from, since I'm on the East Coast.



California, according to the tracking number.


I am also on the East Coast, btw.


- Kel


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *William L Carman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HeadRusch: Please read my post further up this page. I am having the same problem with
> 
> B&H Photo. I ordered a 92" Gray Wolf screen last Monday morning (Pacific Daylight Time.)
> 
> It still apparently hasn't shipped! I called their number Thursday, and was told that this was "normal" and that it usually takes 7-10 days!! (But they charge your card immediatly!



Mine took 6 business days to arrive when ordering from b&h.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HeadRusch* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh I'm not worried it wont show up.......I just wanted it, you know, yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When its shows up, it shows up......I was just curious to see where it shipped from, since I'm on the East Coast.



The one I ordered from Sale Stores shipped from Ca. I'm on the East Coast also and it took seven days to receive it.


Randy


----------



## edfowler

Stumbled accross this thread Wed and picked up the 106" greywolf that night at BB.

Set it up last night and regretted the whole year and a half I spent watching movies on my diy screen.What a difference!


This almost got me to thinking about selling the new crt I have sitting out in the garage, the improvement was so good. More contrast, more 3-d and way better blacks on my Sanyo Z2.


After I watched a ton of dif stuff til about 3am, I realized that the crt is still so much better than the Z2 even on this screen with a panamorph. The panamorph was necessary because the screen door seems much more evident with the graywolf screen.


What was I thinking? I even mentioned to my wife that we might sell the crt. Fortunately, she help me set up the Barco in the garage and she remembers what a gorgeous picture it produced, so she didn't jump all over getting rid of it.


Can't wait to get the theater built and the crt set up in earnest.


----------



## edfowler

BTW, I'm definately keeping the Graywolf and the Z2 with the panamorph for video games and other casual veiwing. It is a nice feature to have a pull down screen for the digital projector that can disappear in front of the serious torus that will be the main veiwing screen. The torus is going to be a couple of feet wider than the 106" Greaywolf anyway.


----------



## NoMore

Tom/Tim/anyone else getting the screen,

I'm new to projector and screen, I'm putting my screen in the basement, just curious on how to maintain a screen and make it last. I'm lazy, can I leave the screen down all time time? Do I need to roll it back up when I'm not using it? Also, I live the midwest so it's pretty humid, I run a dehumidifer once a week, will it dry out the screen if I leave it down? I saw that picture of the tidal waves, I don't want my screen to be like that. Thanks.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edfowler* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stumbled accross this thread Wed and picked up the 106" greywolf that night at BB.
> 
> Set it up last night and regretted the whole year and a half I spent watching movies on my diy screen.What a difference!
> 
> 
> This almost got me to thinking about selling the new crt I have sitting out in the garage, the improvement was so good. More contrast, more 3-d and way better blacks on my Sanyo Z2.
> 
> 
> After I watched a ton of dif stuff til about 3am, I realized that the crt is still so much better than the Z2 even on this screen with a panamorph. The panamorph was necessary because the screen door seems much more evident with the graywolf screen.
> 
> 
> What was I thinking? I even mentioned to my wife that we might sell the crt. Fortunately, she help me set up the Barco in the garage and she remembers what a gorgeous picture it produced, so she didn't jump all over getting rid of it.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get the theater built and the crt set up in earnest.



Yep, I've been recomending this screen like crazy to any LCD owner or super bright DLP owner. Dark gray makes a difference.


----------



## steinre1

To anyone who currently owns a graywolf-


How does the graywolf retract? Does it have a mechanism like the Da-lite CSR (smooth rollup if you let go) or will it just shoot right up like a non CSR screen?


Thanks!


----------



## miltimj

NoMore, I leave my screen down the whole time. As long as you don't have it near a high traffic area (or kids near it all the time, etc), it should be fine. I haven't read the cleaning instructions but I think others have mentioned this earlier in this thread. It won't "dry out" either, that I'm aware of.


steinre1, the screen shoots up... you need to hold onto it the whole way.


----------



## NoMore

Tom/Tim, thank you for all your help and (most importantly) the comparison pictures. Hopefully I can post my complete setup pictures here soon!


----------



## foxdvd

I plan on leaving the screen down at all times, but the one bad thing about this screen is it is kind of rough to get it to go back up.


----------



## KramerTC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 2) There is one glass bead (yes just one itty bitty teeny tiny one) that makes a flaring bright spot less than the size of a pixel (I cannot stress how tiny it is), but only when viewed from the far left seat in my setup. It doesn't bother me much, but it's there for that one seat. I doubt anyone else *not from an a/v forum* would ever notice.



Sadly, I took mine back to Best Buy because of this. If all I saw was one glass bead I would have lived with it. But unlike you I could see many glass beads on any clear/bright colored areas. I got used to seeing the texture of the screen; wasn't bad at all. But the sparklies... oh no; the sparklies where there for me every time whatever image being shown had light areas.


I wonder if this is like rainbows. Some people see them, some not. Hardly anyone else has reported sparklies.


At any rate the Sharp DT-300 is too dim, in my opinion, for ceiling mounting coupled with a Graywolf. And that was with less than 20 hours on the bulb.


----------



## miltimj

This is kind of going off on a side track, but my wife and I were discussing the various benefits on the matte white vs the graywolf, and we like each of them in different scenarios. We're beginning to consider the option of mounting them both, and using each in different scenarios. Basically, the graywolf for movies and darker TV shows, and the matte white for everything else (which makes it about 50/50).


The problem is in a year or so we'll probably not have either screen, and I don't really want to have to worry about getting rid of two of them then... but it may be worth it at these prices. Anyway, just thought I'd share..


----------



## mystery

Tim,


I've been alternating between two and/or three screens for almost two years now. I have High Power and HCMW screens suspended by chains above and just in front of our TV. Whenever I feel the need to change from one to the other it's just a matter of simply switching the screens from one set of chains to the other. It doesn't take long and makes it feel like we've just bought a new screen everytime we switch.







So if we want more 'punch' we view the High Power, if we want better blacks and CR, we switch to the HCMW. We generally stay with one screen for a fair while though, basically until we kind of tire of it and want a change. We had a third screen, a matte white 100" 4:3 that we used exclusively for that aspect ratio but we sold it along with the X1 when we 'graduated' up to the H31 and then onto the H57 which we currently enjoy.


Anyway, it's a doable exercise if you're considering it.


Wayne


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edfowler* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Stumbled accross this thread Wed and picked up the 106" greywolf that night at BB.
> 
> Set it up last night and regretted the whole year and a half I spent watching movies on my diy screen.What a difference!
> 
> 
> This almost got me to thinking about selling the new crt I have sitting out in the garage, the improvement was so good. More contrast, more 3-d and way better blacks on my Sanyo Z2.
> 
> 
> After I watched a ton of dif stuff til about 3am, I realized that the crt is still so much better than the Z2 even on this screen with a panamorph. The panamorph was necessary because the screen door seems much more evident with the graywolf screen.
> 
> 
> What was I thinking? I even mentioned to my wife that we might sell the crt. Fortunately, she help me set up the Barco in the garage and she remembers what a gorgeous picture it produced, so she didn't jump all over getting rid of it.
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get the theater built and the crt set up in earnest.




I knew the Graywolf would match up well with the Sanyo's. It can do a great job for many DLP's also.


I love my Graywolf Cheapie


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KramerTC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sadly, I took mine back to Best Buy because of this. If all I saw was one glass bead I would have lived with it. But unlike you I could see many glass beads on any clear/bright colored areas. I got used to seeing the texture of the screen; wasn't bad at all. But the sparklies... oh no; the sparklies where there for me every time whatever image being shown had light areas.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this is like rainbows. Some people see them, some not. Hardly anyone else has reported sparklies.
> 
> 
> At any rate the Sharp DT-300 is too dim, in my opinion, for ceiling mounting coupled with a Graywolf. And that was with less than 20 hours on the bulb.




Wow, the fact that there's glass for gain bothered you that much? I've had a couple like this, the video spectra was similar. Neither really bother me that much. The Silverstar I saw did bother me because images had a strong powdery glistening effect. The Graywolf is much more subdued than that.


DT-300 I'd recommend Dalite High Power next.


----------



## Kaimenite

I'm new to this forum, have read all the informative comments, and can't say thanks enough to everyone's expert advice. I purchased an Optoma H77 recently (once again, thanks to Guitarman & everyone else's input) and will be ceiling mounting it 15' away from a screen, although I have 1-2' play on where I position the screen. My ceiling height is 7 1/2' and the room dimensions are 17'X33' although the bar area occupies about 1/2 of the 33' length. Walls are painted a deep red and I have many windows on one wall with sliders that walk out to a patio area. Although it's technically a basement room, there is some light that comes through the windows. I'm in the market for a screen (either a 92" or 106"--not sure yet) and have been reading alot of your opinions on the Gray Wolf. Since I'm a newbie, I'm real interested in knowing what your opinions are on what type of screen to purchase, which will go well with the H77 (ceiling mounted) and whether you would opt for the 92" or 106" screen. I will be watching predominantly HDTV and sporting events, so I would like to have some light in the room while entertaining for big sporting events (Super Bowl). Screen is to be mounted across the 17" side of the room with the windows on the left hand side wall. Would matte white work better in this configuration? Any other screen products you would suggest? Thanks for any and all comment--this is a great forum!!


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KramerTC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sadly, I took mine back to Best Buy because of this. If all I saw was one glass bead I would have lived with it. But unlike you I could see many glass beads on any clear/bright colored areas. I got used to seeing the texture of the screen; wasn't bad at all. But the sparklies... oh no; the sparklies where there for me every time whatever image being shown had light areas.
> 
> 
> I wonder if this is like rainbows. Some people see them, some not. Hardly anyone else has reported sparklies.
> 
> 
> At any rate the Sharp DT-300 is too dim, in my opinion, for ceiling mounting coupled with a Graywolf. And that was with less than 20 hours on the bulb.



Were you using the Sharp on eco mode? I also have this PJ (ceiling mounted) and the 92" Graywolf screen coming in tomorrow - hopefully my results won't mirror yours.


I'm currently using a Da-Lite 1.0 gain (light grey) screen and have been happy with it but want brighter colors, deeper blacks and hopefully with a 1.8 gain, a brighter picture. My walls and ceiling are white but I have pretty decent light control, not total but pretty good. You're the first guy I know who has the same combination as I, hopefully our results will be different!


----------



## mystery

You'd appreciate the High Power screen if you want some light in the room and if you're watching sports. This screen will give you 'punch' whereas the gray screens will contribute more to a 'theatrical' experience and atmosphere. If the H77 is too bright for the High Power you could put an ND2 filter on the projector to cut the lumens.


Just a suggestion of course.










Wayne


----------



## guitarman

The Graywolf is almost too cheap for any once $9,000 dollar projector.







But it would work very good with the H77.


At first when I was trying it out I was thinking a projector with lower tuned lumens around 385 wouldn't be great with this screen but I was wrong. The H31 has 385 tuned lumens, I thought no go with this one but my bulb was worn out by testing. Recently I've used the NEC HT1000 with the Graywolf and the combo is excellent and the NEC only does 275 tuned lumens.


If you want a fancier screen you could look at Dalite Fixed models with gain, like Cinema Vision. Carada has a 1.5 gain fixed I think.


----------



## Jason Turk

We just got access to these as well. Anyone interested please feel free to contact us!


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To anyone who currently owns a graywolf-
> 
> 
> How does the graywolf retract? Does it have a mechanism like the Da-lite CSR (smooth rollup if you let go) or will it just shoot right up like a non CSR screen?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



It's like the Model B, less precise stops.


----------



## guitarman

Alright! AVS sending out the correct screen. It wasn't me but sorry about all the buy it here, buy it there. Most of those co's sent the wrong product anyway.


From now on AVS should be mentioned as THE place to buy.


----------



## miltimj

That's awesome news, Jason. You'll be hearing from me...


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Jason Turk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We just got access to these as well. Anyone interested please feel free to contact us!



Since it has been such a pain trying to figure out how to get a GrayWolf instead of the white screen they sent me, maybe I should just keep the white screen and order one of these from you.










--Darin


----------



## jonnyozero3

Can we ask for the AVS price for the two different sizes here in this thread?


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Alright! AVS sending out the correct screen. It wasn't me but sorry about all the buy it here, buy it there. Most of those co's sent the wrong product anyway.
> 
> 
> From now on AVS should be mentioned as THE place to buy.




Tom, would you happen to know if an electric/ motorized version be able to fix or minimize the wavy issue?


----------



## miltimj

Jon, it's my understanding, that the pricing may change and thus won't be posted in a thread else it get outdated (I could be wrong though!). AVS is typically very competitive in their pricing, and the philosophy of calling/emailing/PMing is common to many (or all?) of their products.


Ximoni, what do you mean by wavy issue? One of the primary benefits of the Graywolf is it's very minimal waves. In any case, a motorized screen wouldn't reduce this -- it could only be fixed by tensioning, such as stretching across a fixed frame.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ximoni, what do you mean by wavy issue? One of the primary benefits of the Graywolf is it's very minimal waves. In any case, a motorized screen wouldn't reduce this -- it could only be fixed by tensioning, such as stretching across a fixed frame.



Well, it's the one that disappears when the video is on










I know it's a minor thing but since I've never had such experiences with pulldowns nor electric screens I thought of just asking...


thanks.


----------



## KramerTC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, the fact that there's glass for gain bothered you that much? I've had a couple like this, the video spectra was similar. Neither really bother me that much. The Silverstar I saw did bother me because images had a strong powdery glistening effect. The Graywolf is much more subdued than that.
> 
> 
> DT-300 I'd recommend Dalite High Power next.



Not quite the fact that there's glass to produce gain. What bothered me were sparklies. Makes sense? Dozens of tiny and bright spots from my viewing distance. It is possible I had an irregular unit. No one else is reporting anything like it.


----------



## KramerTC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Were you using the Sharp on eco mode? I also have this PJ (ceiling mounted) and the 92" Graywolf screen coming in tomorrow - hopefully my results won't mirror yours.
> 
> 
> I'm currently using a Da-Lite 1.0 gain (light grey) screen and have been happy with it but want brighter colors, deeper blacks and hopefully with a 1.8 gain, a brighter picture. My walls and ceiling are white but I have pretty decent light control, not total but pretty good. You're the first guy I know who has the same combination as I, hopefully our results will be different!



Yes, I was using the DT-300 on eco mode. This is all very subjective... to my eyes 106'' diagonal was too big for this projector and screen. At 92'' you'll probably be very happy.


There's another thread started by Ken Land. He really nailed it on the 10-15 degree vertical viewing cone for brightness for ceiling mounting. If I halfway stood up I really liked the brightness. That was placing me in that 15 degree cone.


I also have a white ceiling and very light walls. I thought the Graywolf was very good at minimizing the reflections off the walls and ceiling.


----------



## Airboss




KramerTC said:


> Yes, I was using the DT-300 on eco mode. This is all very subjective... to my eyes 106'' diagonal was too big for this projector and screen. At 92'' you'll probably be very happy.
> 
> 
> I agree, it is very subjective based on ones personal viewing likes and dislikes. I also have the DT-300 running in eco mode with a 106" Graywolf and I think it looks great. My projector is mounted exactly 48" from the floor to the center of the lens and fires directly to the center of my 106" screen. I sit 10 ft. from the screen and about 6" to the left of the center of the lens and my eyes are at approx. 36" from the floor. Sitting up to 3 ft. to the left or right gives an acceptable image with a minimal drop in brightness in a room for which I have complete light control.
> 
> 
> At this viewing distance the texture of the screen is noticeable but I find that as I get into a movie the screen texture disappears. Once I recess my RPTV into the wall I will be moving my screen back 2 feet, this should help make the screen texture less noticeable.
> 
> 
> Randy


----------



## foxdvd

This screen is great if you sit about 1.75-2X away from the screen, but the grain-like material will start to show itself the closer you get. Also, I might just be lucky, but I don't even have the smallest wave in my screen yet.


----------



## guitarman

The material is very thick, the Graywolf has far less physical waves then the HP screen I have. Seems the more you keep it down and in balance the material straigthens out. Not that it matters though you still can't see anything with video.


I don't see tons of sparklies either. It's ridiculous but it's the only screen I use now. Nothings done a better job than what I'm seeing now. That's with several different projectors.


----------



## NoMore

I've been reading the HP thread and (re)reading this thread. Sounds like the graywolf has less waves. I also read about what Ken said about the narrow cone, but my basement room is small (12'w), so I'll take a chance. The person sitting against the wall will suffer a little bit.


BTW, I got my 4805 tonight, man this thing is bright! I projected on a wall about 60" and it was cool, can't wait for the 92" screen.


----------



## herd1978

Well I received my screen from PC Nation last night.... no discoloration on the gray surface, a little bit on the black border, and a tiny dent on the case. overall, looks good though, since these are very minor.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foxdvd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I might just be lucky, but I don't even have the smallest wave in my screen yet.



I thought the same thing, that is, until I looked at the screen from the side. Shine a flash light across your screen from the side (see photos below) and you will see what I'm talking about. I was very surprised since there isn't any indication of waves when viewing a movie.


Here are some pics from two different Graywolf screens:

Screen 1 Side view 1 looking from the right side.
Screen 1 Side view 2 looking from the left side.

Screen 2 Side view 1 looking from the right side.
Screen 2 Side view 2 looking from the left side.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herd1978* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I received my screen from PC Nation last night.... no discoloration on the gray surface, a little bit on the black border, and a tiny dent on the case. overall, looks good though, since these are very minor.




herd1978, the discoloration is not visible when viewing the screen without some type of bright light source shinning on it. Check it out when viewing a movie with a bright sky scene or something similar.


I am glad to say that the banding on my screen appears to be going away, it is not nearly as noticeable as it was a week ago.


Randy


----------



## NoMore

Just ordered the Gray 92" from PCNation. I live in IL, and I think their center is in IL, so hopefully I'll get it this week so I can test it out over the weekend.


----------



## kel

I got my 106" Graywolf last night and was happy to see that it was the right one and only had one extremely minor dent in it. After setting it up, however, I noticed a couple of problems. The occasional sparklie...but they don't seem to show until about 15-20 degrees off center so maybe I can live with that. Plus, I am wondering if I can just pinpoint them and go rub off the offending bead or something.


The one that bothers me, though, is that a lot of materials or colors (in the picture) take on an -extreme- graininess. I was watching Sixth Sense and in the part where the guys are crowded around watching the VHS tape, the gentlemen wearing the dark coats looked like they were wearing coats made of crawling insects.


It should be said that I am entirely new to FP and my only comparison right now is a dingy white wall and my PJ (an H77, which I really like, btw) isn't even properly calibrated yet. It also may be that the graininess is something that afficionados approve of as being more film like and I am just too "Joe Consumer" too appreciate =)


That said, is there anything that can be done to minimize the graininess without completely ruining my picture, other than just moving seating back until I can't see it ?


----------



## mystery

I have a gray screen called HCMW (high contrast matte white) from Da-Lite and I'm using the Optoma H57 with it and I also see a grainy texture, especially on brighter backgrounds. Mine isn't a high gain screen though as it's only about 1.1. I've gotten kind of used to the graininess and it doesn't bother me half as much as some other screens that can't match these gray screens for deeper blacks and greater contrast ratio that can be perceived.


Wayne


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought the same thing, that is, until I looked at the screen from the side. Shine a flash light across your screen from the side (see photos below) and you will see what I'm talking about. I was very surprised since there isn't any indication of waves when viewing a movie.
> 
> 
> Here are some pics from two different Graywolf screens:
> 
> Screen 1 Side view 1 looking from the right side.
> Screen 1 Side view 2 looking from the left side.
> 
> Screen 2 Side view 1 looking from the right side.
> Screen 2 Side view 2 looking from the left side.



Looks like your screen is high on the right side. Anybody using L-brackets can use threaded hooks for leveling.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystery* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a gray screen called HCMW (high contrast matte white) from Da-Lite and I'm using the Optoma H57 with it and I also see a grainy texture, especially on brighter backgrounds. Mine isn't a high gain screen though as it's only about 1.1. I've gotten kind of used to the graininess and it doesn't bother me half as much as some other screens that can't match these gray screens for deeper blacks and greater contrast ratio that can be perceived.
> 
> 
> Wayne



"doesn't bother me half as much as some other screens that can't match these gray screens for deeper blacks and greater contrast ratio that can be perceived."


A quote that should be memorized.










As far as texture and glass. The graywolf is a new concept screen, very dark gray in color with a glass in texture to give it a 1.8gain. If you're going to be bothered by looking for a sparkle or grain texture a Mat white screen would be better for you. Panaview has a Mat White also. But you know what, Mat White equals boring next to the Graywolf. IMO


----------



## grandeau

How far back from the screen do people sit to NOT be bothered by sparklies or grainy texture?


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought the same thing, that is, until I looked at the screen from the side. Shine a flash light across your screen from the side (see photos below) and you will see what I'm talking about. I was very surprised since there isn't any indication of waves when viewing a movie.



Wow, that doesn't look anything like mine looks. I agree with Tom that it looks slightly off-level (especially if only one side is waving). At first, with my Graywolf, I couldn't see any waves at all from the front (still can't); then I went to the side as you did, and I have very slight ripples at the bottom, where the bottom part (gray meets black) is a slight curve back and forth every 8" or so, but it's nothing. Maybe I'll take a picture when I get home tonight of what mine looks like.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BTW, I got my 4805 tonight, man this thing is bright! I projected on a wall about 60" and it was cool, can't wait for the 92" screen.



FYI, the 4805 isn't even considered a bright projector, so you have room to grow! The reason that may be necessary is that you should consider that a 92" screen will be less than half as bright due to more than double the surface area (3600 sq in) of the screen compared with a 60" (1500 sq in). Just something to consider and be prepared for when your screen arrives..


----------



## mystery

Tim,


I don't own the 4805 (I've got the H57) but I've read that the 4805 is brighter than the H31 which is considered a fairly bright pj. I had the H31 in my possession for about month or so before I upgraded to the H57. Prior to the H31 I had the X1 which I found to be really dim.


Your point is a good one though. Going from a 60" to a 92" will bring a bit of 'culture' shock to 'NoMore' and a bright projector surely is needed to compensate. If anything, I'd bet that the 4805 would be WAY too bright for a 60" screen and moving to 92" might be a perfect fit.


Even so, Kraszmuzik would no doubt recommend an ND2 filter







for that set up.


Wayne


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kel* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got my 106" Graywolf last night and was happy to see that it was the right one and only had one extremely minor dent in it. After setting it up, however, I noticed a couple of problems. The occasional sparklie...but they don't seem to show until about 15-20 degrees off center so maybe I can live with that. Plus, I am wondering if I can just pinpoint them and go rub off the offending bead or something.
> 
> 
> The one that bothers me, though, is that a lot of materials or colors (in the picture) take on an -extreme- graininess. I was watching Sixth Sense and in the part where the guys are crowded around watching the VHS tape, the gentlemen wearing the dark coats looked like they were wearing coats made of crawling insects.
> 
> 
> It should be said that I am entirely new to FP and my only comparison right now is a dingy white wall and my PJ (an H77, which I really like, btw) isn't even properly calibrated yet. It also may be that the graininess is something that afficionados approve of as being more film like and I am just too "Joe Consumer" too appreciate =)
> 
> 
> That said, is there anything that can be done to minimize the graininess without completely ruining my picture, other than just moving seating back until I can't see it ?



I'm going to guess that your H77 is table mounted for now. This puts you in a high gain level so you'll see more artifacts in your video. Lower your H77's sharpness to the minimum 1. This is the best you can do for now, ceiling mounting the projector will tone down the artifacts allot more.


----------



## Earz

I have decided to make a 2.35 screen out of my first Gray Wolf as the 8-10 inch strip of lighter gray is not going anywhere.


Does AVS or any other seller offer to check the screen before shipping so that I can order another for 1.85 that is uniform without the banding?


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FYI, the 4805 isn't even considered a bright projector, so you have room to grow! The reason that may be necessary is that you should consider that a 92" screen will be less than half as bright due to more than double the surface area (3600 sq in) of the screen compared with a 60" (1500 sq in). Just something to consider and be prepared for when your screen arrives..



Actually, that's a good thing. I was watching Matrix Reloaded (hwy scene) about 8ft away from the kitchen wall. I had all the lights turned off, the 60" was so bright I had to turn the brightness down. So like you said at 12ft away a 92" would be ideal for me. I really wanted to push for the 106", but my project can only go back 13ft max (basement A/C duct), plus it'll look really crazy big in the backwall.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> it'll look really crazy big in the backwall.



...and that's a problem... why?










It seems that the brightness of the 4805 is a good match for your setup. Glad to hear that.


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ...and that's a problem... why?



Because I'll only have a 92" of the 106" filled out. I guess it'd be cool to have the black AND the gray border.


----------



## miltimj

Ahh, I see... Didn't catch the part about your throw limitation.


----------



## kel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm going to guess that your H77 is table mounted for now. This puts you in a high gain level so you'll see more artifacts in your video. Lower your H77's sharpness to the minimum 1. This is the best you can do for now, ceiling mounting the projector will tone down the artifacts allot more.



It is mounted right behind seating, about 2 feet above sitting eye level. From reading, I understand that is pretty much similar to a table mounting, as far as gain from the retroflective angle. So basically yes










I actually don't see any other artifacts right now and even the sparklies, I can deal with since they aren't viewable from every angle. The graininess is the real problem. I definitely appreciate contrast but the grain makes the picture seem a lot less clean and sharp.


I will make sure the sharpness is turned down and give it some more time. If anyone else has any suggestions on reducing graininess, let me know.


Thanks !


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looks like your screen is high on the right side. Anybody using L-brackets can use threaded hooks for leveling.



Good catch, although it was actually high on the left side as seen from the seating position. I've corrected that and the screen is now level across the top.


----------



## herd1978

i set up my screen last night. put the 4805 on the table (haven't ceiling mounted yet) and the picture looks good. very uniform, no banding. no sparklies. the viewing angle is a little smaller than i had hoped. looks great straight on, but looses brightness quite a bit off center. however, i expected a drop off reading some other reviews. straight on, it looks as bright as my white screen (with an ND2 filter), better contrast, and very little light spill around the screen. for the price i paid, i love it.


----------



## SuperGoop

I am getting desperate, but I don't want to break any forum rules. I have been following this thread and want to buy this screen, but I can't find any Canadian reseller. Getting it shipped from the US + duty + cross-border hassles may be too much.


May I ask where I can buy it in Canada? Thanks.


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *herd1978* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the viewing angle is a little smaller than i had hoped. looks great straight on, but looses brightness quite a bit off center. however, i expected a drop off reading some other reviews. straight on, it looks as bright as my white screen (with an ND2 filter), better contrast, and very little light spill around the screen. for the price i paid, i love it.



Herd, when you say drop off quite a bit. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best. From Center you're giving it a 10, what do you give when you're 6ft to the left or right?


----------



## herd1978

well if you wanna do 1 to 10 scale, 10 straight on, but outside of the middle area, id say its more like 6 or 7. its not drastically horrible, but definately enough to see the dropoff. this screen is best for a stadium seating setup. the outer area looses the punch, leaving more of a dimmer picture. one nice thing i noticed is that the screen door effect is barely visible now. i need to be less that a foot away from the screen to see it really. (just a note again, the 4805 is table mounted right now, cannot comment on the ceiling mount setup yet)


----------



## Itsdon

I agree, 10 straight on and a 6-7 while sitting. This is from my ceiling mounted PJ. I just put up this screen last night - loved it while standing and hated it while sitting. If nothing else it made me realize that I do need a screen with a good gain for my situation. The Da-Lite HCMW 1.0 I currently have just can't compete with the Gray Wolf when viewed straight on. Anyone have a suggestion on a moderately priced 92" screen with both good gain and a wide viewing angle (wider than the GW I at least)?


----------



## herd1978

itsdon, my situation was the exacty oppsite (probably cause yours is ceiling and mine is table). when i sat down, it got brighter. going left or right from the screen, is when i really see a difference (kinda to be expected though with the glass beads) no hotspotting btw


----------



## HeadRusch

Mine is being hit by my ceiling-mounted H31, which is about 3 feet above my head when in primary sitting position.


It doesn't get noticibly brighter when I stand or sit.....if it does its not by much, but then again I owned a RPTV....and my 65" set also gets noticibly brighter when I sit down versus when I stand up, so I might be used to that "shift in brightness" as most RPTV's do the same thing.


Off-Axis I didn't seem to notice a real problem, but my off-axis seating is still within the boundaries of the edges of the screen.......so the dropoff didn't appear to be too significant to me. Then again, it all comes down to the cone angle.....my off-axis seats are probably still within that cone where dropoff might be noticible but not detract from the image, versus sitting further off axis or closer to the screen, where it becomes a real problem.


----------



## herd1978

when i sit down, the picture get slightly better, nothing drastic, but just enough to tell (nowhere close to a rear projection tv). as long as im sitting somewhere in front of the screen area (left to right), i see the best picture.


----------



## mystery

SuperGoop,


I'm not aware of any of the usual suspect online vendors in Canada that sell this but traditional Optoma dealers that sell their projectors in Canada can get this screen for you. The MSRP in Canada for the 92" screen is $250.00 and the MSRP for the 106" is $350.00. This I was told over the phone by Optoma Canada. You can probably get it for much less by speaking to one of Optoma's authorized dealers in Canada.


I would first give AVS a shot and email Jason or one of the other sales reps and see what kind of deal they can pull off for you since you're in Canada. But do compare their quote with your local Optoma dealer because it may turn out that it's not worth the hassle of cross border shipping.


Wayne


----------



## Hughman

SuperGoop,


In addition to what Mystery has suggested, I have noted that Futureshop.ca caries a Panoview 80" pulldown, though not the GW perhaps one could be special ordered for you.


----------



## Earz

Anyone with a 106" GW with absolutely no band that doesn't want to pay a restock fee and is unhappy with the GW ....P.M. me please.


----------



## SuperGoop

Hugh2 and Mystery, thanks for the suggestions... I'll see how it goes.


----------



## basement

I have read most of the greywolf posts with interest and I would appreciate comments on whether my intended setup can benefit from the use of the Greywolf - or alternatively, a High Power as it's compared to sometimes (I assume it's Da-Lite high power?)


I'm currently using a basic 4x3 100" diagonal draper,pull down, matte white with the Benq pe7700, ND2, and looking at possibly upgrading, certainly for an equivalent 16x9 size - 92".


The one thing of note for this particular PJ, with its zero offset throw, is that in setups where it can be made to work with no keystoning, I'm thinking that it's a strong candidate to be paired with the Greywolf, i.e. The PJ would tend to be closer to the viewing height.


- HT room about 15x15 in basement and also doubles as a family room.

- Walls are colored but the color palette tends towards lighter not dark. The ceiling is off-white.

- There are some side windows with existing drapes. Drapes are dark but does not entirely block out the light

- The PJ and the existing pulldown is mounted about 6' off the floor on dropped areas of the ceiling.

- My main seating is right under the PJ - view level about 3' from the PJ, about 1.5 widths from the screen. I also have occasional seating just off to the side of the main seating - just outside of the screen area

- The PJ is currently throwing an image lined up close to the screen casing. The current screen is used retracted so the bottom of the screen lines up with the bottom of the image


- Can the greywolf support a minimal drop - say less than 2" from the casing?

- Is the main viewing area optimal for the screen and it's primary benefits - rejecting ambient light, improved colors and contrast?

- Would the viewing experience outside of the main seating be equivalent to what I have currently with the Draper? I could live with that if the picture quality in the main seating is much improved.

- Is this a significant upgrade from my Draper Luma matte white?

- Alternatively, would the Da-lite high power work better for me?


Unfortunately, in my area, it's difficult to find a venue where screen comparisons can be made, short of ordering small samples. For the price of the Greywolf and maybe even for the High Power I can make the leap of faith and buy it sight unseen, with your help of course.


TIA


----------



## HeadRusch

The graywolf only has 2 stops for its top black border: 4" (I think) or like 1/4 to 1/2". At least thats the way mine is. For me, that means I go with no top border as my room wont support a 4" drop. Those 2 inches make a big difference.


But its not as much of a problem since I adjusted my image to be about 2" down from the case anyhow.....its so dark that not having a black strip up there isn't a particuarly big deal in my case. Although I am considering painting the whole thing black.


----------



## Itsdon

My 92" has a full 12" black top border with stops every 4" (12", 8", 4" & 0) The black boarder makes a huge difference in perceived contrast (vs. a 4.3 screen without one) and it does a stellar job of absorbing the ambient light that would otherwise hit the ceiling and reflect back.


----------



## depesz

Hi


Is there anybody who can sugest which one "Graywolf" or DA-Lite Model B Screen


High Power will be more sufficent for my panasonic PT-L500U?

I am thinking about gray wolf but there is to much confusions where to get the correct one.Any suggestions.Thank you.


----------



## guitarman

The Graywolf will enhance your LCD projector better. Buy from AVS right here, they'll make sure you get the right screen.


----------



## depesz

Thanks. I was very confused for last couple days. I thought the same .My only concern was if I will not last much of the brightnest with my set up.I have projector mounted on the 7 feet celling and will try to watch the movies in sitting position. The biggest problem with greywolf is to get correct one.There is a lot confusing links in this forum>i will order it from AVS, but ...I dont know how.Could you help?


----------



## mystery

This page might help you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/sendmessage.php 


Wayne


----------



## SKoprowski

So do you all think my 400:1 contrast LCD projector would benefit from this screen? My local Microcenter has one and I'm considering one.


----------



## guitarman

LCD projector? Absolutely. Big increase in blacks will make a hugh difference, plus the extra contrast with ambient light rejection.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LCD projector? Absolutely. Big increase in blacks will make a hugh difference, plus the extra contrast with ambient light rejection.



yep, also helps in masking sde...depending how far you sit.


tom, i've been following that thread with the new Optoma Movietime DV10. can't wait to see how it matches with the GrayWolf. this might be the one that could move the market in favor of pjs.


----------



## SuperGoop

I was seriously thinking about buying this, but now I am worried that it won't work with my ceiling mounted PJ.


People were saying that on a ceiling mounted PJ, it looks bright and achieve the advertised 1.8 gain while standing. As soon as you sit down, the gain is greatly reduced to a point it looks dim.


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperGoop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was seriously thinking about buying this, but now I am worried that it won't work with my ceiling mounted PJ.
> 
> 
> People were saying that on a ceiling mounted PJ, it looks bright and achieve the advertised 1.8 gain while standing. As soon as you sit down, the gain is greatly reduced to a point it looks dim.



I don't think it's bad at all with my 4805, it definitely does not look dim. I have a ceiling mount 7' high and it's plenty bright sitting undearneath it...even outside the cone. Yeah you'll see a little difference if you keep moving around and testing your eyes, but no one is going to do that through a 2hr movie.


----------



## HeadRusch

I guess it really must depend on how high and off-axis your seating and PJ is. My H31 is ceiling mounted, and while I lose some gain sitting down, it hardly looks "dim". I adjusted my gamma up a bit and that compensated for any loss of shadow detail, but everything still is bright and pops.


On bright "white sunlight" scenes I'm still squinting like it was a real sun...


----------



## V.X.Donique

can't wait until the fixed versions come out.....


very exciting stuff, and it's only pre-cedia


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperGoop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was seriously thinking about buying this, but now I am worried that it won't work with my ceiling mounted PJ.
> 
> 
> People were saying that on a ceiling mounted PJ, it looks bright and achieve the advertised 1.8 gain while standing. As soon as you sit down, the gain is greatly reduced to a point it looks dim.



I tested a half/half setup of my High Power and Graywolf during the day (dimmed room) yesterday. Guess what, the high power got rolled back up. It looked washed out, I lost all my colors and blacks comparred to the graywolf.


----------



## miltimj

Tom, did you 50/50 top and bottom or left and right?


----------



## g3dahl

Well, I finally lost patience and set everything up temporarily so I could have a look at the Graywolf. The permanent installation is still at least a couple of weeks away, pending completion of painting and flooring.


My 4805 will eventually be ceiling-mounted, with the lens at 8 feet, and a 13-foot throw to the 92" Graywolf. Viewing position will be directly under the projector. But for temporary use, the projector is on the floor. I mounted the screen on a 2x4 nailed across the top of a bookcase.


The first few nights of viewing have been lots of fun. Inside the cone it is especially impressive, with great blacks, colors and lots of punch, maybe even a bit too bright. Moving away from the projector calms things down quite a bit. I'm still trying to decide what to think of the results when viewing from the same angle I will have in the permanent installation. I haven't yet changed any of the projector's settings. It does look quite good, but I haven't had the chance to compare it with anything else.


This screen is very impressive at its price, but the jury is still out. Is there some other screen out there that is an especially good match for a ceiling-mounted 4805?


Gary Dahl


----------



## guitarman

Nothing will come close to what you'll get with the Graywolf/4805.


Tim

Half & Half, graywolf up top, HP on the bottom. The difference was very clear. Graywolf stayed down HP went up and away.


----------



## DAMAC

I read a post earlier stating this this screen will also come in a fixed frame version sometime. Anybody have an ETA on this?


I will probably go ahead an order one today if the fixed version is awhile off. Thanks


David


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> Half & Half, graywolf up top, HP on the bottom. The difference was very clear. Graywolf stayed down HP went up and away.



but tom, would this have been a fair comparison relative to the pj and your viewing position?


----------



## guitarman

The test worked out ok. If you think about actually the Graywolf had a disadvantage being at the top. It still out did the HP.


----------



## SMP01

I will be getting this screen soon.


I am waiting for the new 'black-screen' technolgy to mature and problably upgrade in a few years. For the price of the graywolf, this screen is a easy choice to hold me over.


----------



## Bajajim

I received my Graywolf from Amazon today, 6 days before the scheduled arrival date of 8/15, the box had been torn open at one end and had a hole near the middle. When I opened the box I found only one, so far, dent in the case, almost below the "P" in Panovision. I took it to the garage to air it out and had trouble pulling down the screen (no place to hook it on to and only me), so I hooked the pull down handle to a nail locked in a vise and, holding the case, I walked straight back, keeping it level with the floor, and it opened up fully...but it wouldn't lock open. I pulled it back as far as it would go and when I would let up on the pressure it would try to retract.

My question is, does it have to be hanging down to stay down or could there be something wrong with it? This is going in my place down in Baja, but it'll probably be a month or more before I get down there, so I'd like to make sure it works properly before taking it down there and while I can still return it. Any help would be welcomed...thanks,


----------



## miltimj

I had problems keeping it retracted when not in the normal upright position as well (but I also was being careful not to damage it). I ended up strapping a tie-down strap to my roof trusses in the garage and hanging it fromt those hooks. I used this to air out each of my screens (panoview matte white & graywolf)


----------



## mystery

Tom,


I'd like to know a little bit more about your comparison. Which screen did you have your projector optimized for? I know that my AVIA settings change from one screen to the other. I have both the High Power and HCMW and if I were to do the same test as you did it would be kind of unfair to one screen because the image on it would naturally look bad due to the fact that the contrast and brightness settings would be calibrated to the other screen.


The other comment I have is that I'd like to, if you don't mind, hear what your impressions are in a totally darkened environment testing the two screens. Is it possible that you may prefer the High Power when ambient light issues aren't present?


What do you think?


Wayne


----------



## miltimj

I would imagine the Graywolf would perform better than the High Power with complete light control. That's what I'm using it for... currently I actually prefer my Matte White with ambient light, though I still need to A/B some more in different situations. If I had complete light control it'd be an easy choice: the Graywolf.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystery* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> I'd like to know a little bit more about your comparison. Which screen did you have your projector optimized for? I know that my AVIA settings change from one screen to the other. I have both the High Power and HCMW and if I were to do the same test as you did it would be kind of unfair to one screen because the image on it would naturally look bad due to the fact that the contrast and brightness settings would be calibrated to the other screen.
> 
> 
> The other comment I have is that I'd like to, if you don't mind, hear what your impressions are in a totally darkened environment testing the two screens. Is it possible that you may prefer the High Power when ambient light issues aren't present?
> 
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> 
> Wayne



Good point, the projector I used was the HT1000 which was calibrated for the HP screen. So the HP had an advantage yet the Graywolf still looked better. Light was in the room, defused a little but still there.


----------



## Bajajim

Miltimj,


Thanks for the input - I don't have rafters in my garage but will try to hook-up something..


----------



## mystery

Thanks Tom. That's very interesting.







So the Greywolf won even at a disadvantage?


Tim, I'm wondering what your wall colors are. I know Tom's are white or off-white. Mine are a semi-dark green on the sides and ceiling while the back is painted black. I've found that with my H57, which is a very bright projector (1100 lumens brite mode), when I'm using the High Power with an ND2 filter, the image is slightly more preferable than when I use the HCMW without the filter. Both screens are nice but the High Power gives it a bit more punch albeit possibly at the expense of a little black level and contrast ratio.


I realize that the Greywolf may replenish some of that punch that I'm missing on the HCMW. I'm also curious about how the High Power and Greywolf screens would compare with darker walls such as mine. It's been my experience that the gray based screens seem to work better with either brighter projectors or bright walls. Before I painted my walls green and black, they were off-white and the HCMW screen was a better match. After painting, the images became too dark and the High Power turned out to be just the ticket.


Is there anyone who has these two screens with dark or semi-dark walls who could do an A/B test like Tom did? I would be interested to find out if the Greywolf would still win as Tim suggests.


Wayne


----------



## richh

Some comments from another Graywolf owner...


Today I received my 106" Graywolf that I purchased from buy.com. Box was in good shape, however the screen itself was a bit banged up. The metal casing had two small dents in about the middle. The metal was thin enough that I could bend it just about back to where it should be. The white plastic encaps were scuffed up on the ends, and there was a few black smudges on the metal case, some that I could wipe off, others I could not. I hung it up in the basement just to see what it looked like in the extended position. The screen is mostly flat, but near where it attaches to the bottom bar, there are a few waves. The black border on the right side had a regular pattern of gray spots every 2 or 3 inches; very noticeable from a few feet away, but not at my seating position. I did not get the line from the protective plastic as other have reported, but I did have problems removing the film. I pulled as gently as I could, but I ended up with a few white spots in the black border where the adhesive stuck too well and ended up taking up some of the black paint.


So a few annoying quality issues, but none I would consider show stoppers. The real test happens on Thursday when the H78 arrives.


----------



## theinvid

Hi, i'm a 1st timer and could use some advice.

I ordered a Sanyo Z3 and a 106" Graywolf 1.8gain screen.

According to an online calculator my projector is way too brite for this size screen and gain rating.

has anyone already done a z3 with this screen? should i refuse shipping and order a different screen or give this screen a shot??


the only way to get into the recommended briteness levels and all that is to have the screen be 130" at full zoom from 13ft.

Projector Calculator (adjust the gain to 1.8)


btw, my room has total light control and is 19.5 x 14.5


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theinvid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> According to an online calculator my projector is way too brite for this size screen and gain rating



I like projectorcentral.com, but I think their ftL calculators are some of the worst pieces of misinformation around. For example, the HS51 is rated at something like 1200 lumens, projectorcentral.com measured their's at I believe under 400 lumens, and yet that calculator uses the wrong number (the spec). I don't know how much dimmer the Z3 is tha specs, but I would ignore that calculator (or recalculate based on getting calibrated numbers lumens from somebody that are probably half that) and keep this screen. Even if it ends up being a little bit on the bright side that means you would have room to add a color filter to the projector and get better contrast ratio.


Also, according to my measurements the GrayWolf is closer to 1.4 if you are at the projector and falls off from there.


--Darin


----------



## miltimj

Wayne, my walls are essentially biege. I would submit that darker walls would help the Graywolf. See my comments below.


theinvid, there's no way the Z3 is too bright for the Graywolf. In fact, if any projector seems too bright, it's better to use a gray screen and then add filters as necessary anyway. There's not 1.8 gain, especially if you are ceiling mounting it, and your Z3 isn't close to its rated lumens (as Darin points out).


Okay, so now to my most recent, and continued, assessment of my matte white vs graywolf. I'm beginning to like the matte white more, but understand that it's because I have ambient light in the room 70%+ of the time that I use the PJ. In my viewing opinion, the matte white is a better fit with ambient light, but the Graywolf is a better fit with complete light control. It basically comes down to me wanting to keep both, and mounting them simultaneously, and using each in the right circumstances.


Granted, I haven't calibrated for each screen, so I'll probably calibrate for each, in each screen's ideal environment (as stated above), and then save the settings for each and change as necessary. I'll continue to update as I continue to tweak the setup...


----------



## theinvid

what filters would you recommend for my z3 and graywolf screen??? I'd just as soon order those right now also.

Thanks for the advice....i feel a little better about having ordered this screen.


----------



## maitak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wayne, my walls are essentially biege. I would submit that darker walls would help the Graywolf. See my comments below.
> 
> 
> theinvid, there's no way the Z3 is too bright for the Graywolf. In fact, if any projector seems too bright, it's better to use a gray screen and then add filters as necessary anyway. There's not 1.8 gain, especially if you are ceiling mounting it, and your Z3 isn't close to its rated lumens (as Darin points out).
> 
> 
> Okay, so now to my most recent, and continued, assessment of my matte white vs graywolf. I'm beginning to like the matte white more, but understand that it's because I have ambient light in the room 70%+ of the time that I use the PJ. In my viewing opinion, the matte white is a better fit with ambient light, but the Graywolf is a better fit with complete light control. It basically comes down to me wanting to keep both, and mounting them simultaneously, and using each in the right circumstances.
> 
> 
> Granted, I haven't calibrated for each screen, so I'll probably calibrate for each, in each screen's ideal environment (as stated above), and then save the settings for each and change as necessary. I'll continue to update as I continue to tweak the setup...



I'm surprised the Graywolf isn't doing better in ambient light than a matte white screen. What about the picture quality are you finding inferior with the Graywolf?


----------



## Jefftaz

I am confused about the greywolf vs. matte white as well. Most reviews on the greywolf state that it performs much better than matte white with ambient light present. In fact someone posted pictures where it did show the greywolf taking the clear advantage. Tim, are you giving the edge to the matte white based on viewing angles?


----------



## V.X.Donique




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In my viewing opinion, the matte white is a better fit with ambient light, but the Graywolf is a better fit with complete light control.



Tim you just confused the hell out of me with this one










i thought it would be the other way around, no?


----------



## mystery

Yeah, sorry Tim.







I guess I started all this. But I've got to admit that it's been my experience that the brighter the projector and the brighter the walls, the darker my screen needs to be otherwise I get extreme washout characteristics and poor blacks/contrast ratio.


I have noticed though that my High Power screen has an amazing ability to deflect ambient light from off to the sides.


Diverse opinions make this thread interesting.










Wayne


----------



## miltimj

Hehe, I knew I'd probably get some confused "looks" after my last post... I didn't quite have time to finish my explanation. Anyway, here goes:


First, my room conditions: My projector is a relatively bright one (PE7700), but it's ceiling mounted in my living room (which is also openly connected to my dining room and kitchen). There is a 4'x7' window in my living room (5' away from the screen and perpendicular to the screen wall), french patio doors in the dining room (same wall as LR window), and a 3'x3' window in the kitchen, 25' away from the screen (offset on the opposite wall). The LR window has some dark blue cloth over them that blocks about 70%, DR doors has vertical blinds that blocks 90%, and the kitchen drapes block 70%. With the projector off, I would say it's "dim" but not dark.


Now for my observations. If I stand up just in front of my seating position, where my eyes are less than 1' under the lens, the Graywolf looks good. I was most recently using the scene from SW2:AOTC, where Yoda fights Dooku (sorry if I spoiled anything







), which is an already dark scene. It looked good standing up, but as soon as I sat down, the only thing I could see was light sabers and the other glimpses of light in that scene. When I put up the matte white, I can see everything (but it certainly looks more washed out than the graywolf when standing).


At night when I can have it completely dark, the matte white looks washed out, but the Graywolf looks great. As one friend put it, it's much deeper and fuller/richer looking. Without a doubt I prefer the Graywolf.


You'd think that due to the high gain, the graywolf would reject ambient light well, but I think the gain is making up for its gray material to an extent, and is only 1.0+ gain when in the cone of the retroreflectivity.


Let me add that the graywolf looks decent with brighter sources, such as an HD baseball game I watched right after the SW2 segment. However, the matte white looks good as well, but in a different way... brighter, but more washed out. In that situation it depends which way you prefer, bright or "deep" looking.


To summarize, without a doubt the graywolf wins hands down with complete light control, even for a ceiling mounted projector, and even for a horizontally wide viewing angle. In ambient light, it doesn't reflect enough (IMO) to best a matte white screen. For these reasons I'm either going to keep both screens and mount them simultaneously and use them in different situations (downside is I have to adjust zoom and focus each time I switch), or just return the graywolf and use the matte white because it seems like I watch shows with a lot of ambient light. I think I'll end up keeping the graywolf because the days will be much, much shorter through the fall and winter. I hope this clears some of my thoughts up, and feel free to ask away, or other graywolf owners, offer your opinions as well...


If I've learned anything from front projection, it's that ambient light sucks!


----------



## miltimj

One more thing to add.. remember I haven't calibrated yet, so take this with an initial grain of salt. I'll calibrate and do some more tests/observations soon.


Jeff, which pictures are you referencing? The ones I posted? Remember the ones with the flash will make the Graywolf reflect light directly back to the camera and seem brighter than when off axis (with a ceiling mounted PJ).


Vashon, it's basically a matter of the dark scenes being too dark with the combination of vertically off-axis viewing, and a gray screen, when there's already a lot of ambient light. I don't think it rejects ambient light as much as it enhances contrast.


----------



## steinre1

Tim-


Your lighting situation sounds very similar to mine. I think I've settled on purchasing the High Power from Da-lite. It sounds like it would be a nice compromise between the Graywolf and the Matte White in our environment (retroreflective for ambient light rejection, white - so it doesn't get TOO dark out of the cone, higher gain - so when ceiling mounting you're still likely to achieve a 1.1-1.5 gain). All of that plus the quality control issues associated with the Graywolf have me leaning towards the high power. The price of the 106" is only about $30 more (non CSR). Also the fact that I have little kids, perhaps paying the extra ~75 for the CSR (which is not available on the graywolf) is probably a good idea and makes my decision that much easier...


Do you have any experience with the high power, tim? I know guitarman said he prefers the graywolf in ambient light to the HP, but I've seen at least a couple of people on this and other threads stating the the HP does a much better job. I guess it could come down to calibration and what you are really trying to achieve in your ambient light situations...greater contrast, or a brighter picture with more pop...


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One more thing to add.. remember I haven't calibrated yet, so take this with an initial grain of salt. I'll calibrate and do some more tests/observations soon.
> 
> 
> Jeff, which pictures are you referencing? The ones I posted? Remember the ones with the flash will make the Graywolf reflect light directly back to the camera and seem brighter than when off axis (with a ceiling mounted PJ).
> 
> 
> Vashon, it's basically a matter of the dark scenes being too dark with the combination of vertically off-axis viewing, and a gray screen, when there's already a lot of ambient light. I don't think it rejects ambient light as much as it enhances contrast.



Tim,

What were you drinking last night?










It's your picture here he's talking about. Hope you don't mind I copied it.


Graywolf vs Mat white both at the same time with ambient light. Graywolf ontop.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/graywolfmatwhite.jpg


----------



## miltimj

First, I would say that retroreflective isn't going to help as much with ambient light rejection in itself as much as angular reflective would (assuming a ceiling mounted PJ). White vs gray with similar gain will seem brighter -- keep in mind that the cone is minimally different horizontally (at least with the graywolf). I haven't used a high power yet.


I'm not sure how much CSR is really worth compared with a standard pulldown. I suppose it's proportional to how often you'll pull it down and up; I just leave mine down for all but the rarest occasions. After playing with these various screens, I think my ideal screen in my situation would be an angular reflective high gain gray screen. If the graywolf were angular reflective, I'd be set.


Also, bear in mind that my decisions of whether to keep it, etc, are tainted by my upcoming move (in less than a year) to a new house where I'll build a dedicated HT and have complete light control.


----------



## darinp2

When you have a high gain screen and are in the viewing cone with random ambient light, you have helped your ANSI CR from the fact that you are getting higher gain from the projector than from the random ambient light. But, if you are outside the cone to where you are getting much less gain, then the random ambient light can have higher average gain than the light from the projector and in this case you have hurt your ANSI CR. This doesn't count the gray factor and is just a guideline though.


As an example, if you use a High Power and sit near the projector with a light on off to the side, then you have helped your ANSI CR (decreased the washout) compared to a Matte White screen. But, if you use a High Power with the projector high on the ceiling with you down below and have a light on right next to you, then you have increased the washout effect from that light compared to a Matte White screen.


--Darin


----------



## miltimj

Whatever it was, Tom, it was good...










Actually, I think that picture provides a good example of why a brighter picture looks better with the graywolf. But a darker one doesn't. I wish I would've taken a picture of a scene like the Yoda/Dooku fight, so you can see how black the image is. Unfortunately I don't have them both up right now.. I think I'll have to do that again, and use some darker source material.


Thanks for the reminder of that scene, though. I think it really comes down to calibration, which is why I've put the disclaimer on all of my opinions that I haven't done that yet. I think I need to calibrate it with an average amount of ambient light and using the graywolf, and see if I can get it to display a good image in that situation. I think I may be able to...


So to add to the explanation of my comments, I'll say this: "Stand by, Houston! Calibration underway!"


----------



## HeadRusch

I noticed while watching some episdes of FIREFLY that while scenes where the blackness of space were set against the larger ship or a planet, everything looked nice and black...but that in dark scenes aboard the ship, where the majority of a scene was dark or black and only 1/2 of a persons face might be illuminated, that there was definately a loss of shadow detail....it reminded me of when I had my LCD projector for a week....when I'd try to madly adjust the settings to bring out detail in the blackness that the projector just couldn't bring out.


However I noticed the same thing with the old ELITE screen, and just accept that it is a limitation of a 2000:1 contrast ratio and dont really blame the screen...some detail is going to be lost in those dark, dimly lit scenes.


In the case of Firefly, its almost always a problem when Inara's jet black hair is in or out of shadows. Out of shadows, detail in her curly black hair can be seen easily. IN shadows, all that detail is lost or significantly diminished...her hair disappears into a black shape without any highlight detail. Other objects in the scene are perfectly viewable. I imagine adjusting the overall black level while leaving gamma at "3" might solve that problem, but then I'd wash out my blacks just a bit more. So its a trade off.


I still think this GrayWolf is the good stuff........making the most of what this little PJ can do (and what it can't).


----------



## KramerTC

Tim,


Please tell me about the Optoma matte white...


Does it have the same 2'' black border on the sides and bottom as well as the 13'' black drop at the top?

How is it with showing/hiding waves during viewing?

Can you see any texture from your viewing distance?

Is the case of the same dimensions (distance between hanging hooks) as the Graywolf?

And... how would you compare it to your Parkland board?


----------



## ssj2

My 1st Graywolf arrived too damaged to keep. The 2nd arrived today. A couple minor dents in the case, but otherwise OK. There is the slightly brighter area near the top of the screen where the plastic was. I'm hoping this fades as others have suggested.


I have a ceiling mounted Toshiba MT700 (a fairly bright HD2+ projector), beige walls, complete light control, and a couple feet of black material on the ceiling in front of the screen. Seating positions are all within the width of the 106" diagonal screen, about 14' back.


My current screen is a Da-Lite 1.5 gain Video Spectra. The 1st thing I did was check the brightness & Contrast settings with the HDNET test patterns (recorded on Dish 921 DVR). There were no changes needed. I was worried that I would lose brightness compared to the Video Spectra. If that happened I certainly can't tell. In fact, I use an ND2 filter with the MT700, and am keeping it on.


Shadow detail and contrast are better, creating more depth to the image. Although there are a few waves, they disappear entirely with a projected image. The white case and pull-down bar do not bother me as much as I thought they would, but I'll still be painting them black.


For me this looks like it will be a very worthwhile investment -- especially given the reasonable cost. The Video Spectra will be going up for sale shortly.


----------



## Ximori




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When you have a high gain screen and are in the viewing cone with random ambient light, you have helped your ANSI CR from the fact that you are getting higher gain from the projector than from the random ambient light. But, if you are outside the cone to where you are getting much less gain, then the random ambient light can have higher average gain than the light from the projector and in this case you have hurt your ANSI CR. This doesn't count the gray factor and is just a guideline though.--Darin



would this be true for both retro and angular? i'm trying to see where else an angular can be more beneficial under certain lighting conditions. is the optimal angle within the viewing cone horizontally the same degree as vertically?


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KramerTC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim,
> 
> 
> Please tell me about the Optoma matte white...
> 
> 
> Does it have the same 2'' black border on the sides and bottom as well as the 13'' black drop at the top?
> 
> How is it with showing/hiding waves during viewing?
> 
> Can you see any texture from your viewing distance?
> 
> Is the case of the same dimensions (distance between hanging hooks) as the Graywolf?
> 
> And... how would you compare it to your Parkland board?



Same black 2" border, same top border.

Neither of the screens really show waves for me.. You can only barely see a few waves, and certainly not when there's an image (as was posted by someone earlier w/a picture from the extreme side).

I can't see any texture from 13' away (whereas I can see it with the Graywolf).

It's, well.. bigger than my parkland board... I actually have a border around the screen surface now, and the texture is better (I could see wavy lines of texture in the PP sheet).


----------



## KramerTC

Tim,


Thanks for your prompt and clear responses. I am in the minority in that this experience has pushed over the matte white side. I prefered the image on a 2'x2' dalite mw sample to the Graywolf.


I did like the design and quality of the Pannoview screen. The long drop and borders were very nice. I think I may get the matte white version.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 1st Graywolf arrived too damaged to keep. The 2nd arrived today. A couple minor dents in the case, but otherwise OK. There is the slightly brighter area near the top of the screen where the plastic was. I'm hoping this fades as others have suggested.
> 
> 
> I have a ceiling mounted Toshiba MT700 (a fairly bright HD2+ projector), beige walls, complete light control, and a couple feet of black material on the ceiling in front of the screen. Seating positions are all within the width of the 106" diagonal screen, about 14' back.
> 
> 
> My current screen is a Da-Lite 1.5 gain Video Spectra. The 1st thing I did was check the brightness & Contrast settings with the HDNET test patterns (recorded on Dish 921 DVR). There were no changes needed. I was worried that I would lose brightness compared to the Video Spectra. If that happened I certainly can't tell. In fact, I use an ND2 filter with the MT700, and am keeping it on.
> 
> 
> Shadow detail and contrast are better, creating more depth to the image. Although there are a few waves, they disappear entirely with a projected image. The white case and pull-down bar do not bother me as much as I thought they would, but I'll still be painting them black.
> 
> 
> For me this looks like it will be a very worthwhile investment -- especially given the reasonable cost. The Video Spectra will be going up for sale shortly.



Sounds good, I like what I'm hearing about the Toshiba. Some extra brightness doesn't hurt and the added blacks and 3D the Graywolf can add is a great match.

enjoy


----------



## johnbe

I decided to try a Gray Wolf. Picked it up at Best Buy a couple weekends ago when I could use the 12% off and I had a reward certificate so the price was right. I am using a ceiling mounted NEC HT1000. As I have been using a diy screen the upgrade has been amazing. My original plan was to get a high power when the funds became available but this looks like a keeper for now. No bad areas where the plastic was. No detectible wrinkles. My problem is I can not get the screen to go up no matter how hard I try. Since I need to move the screen to paint the wall this weekend, that does present a problem. Anyone else have this problem? Did you solve it?


----------



## V.X.Donique

geez with all these delivered damaged screens, parcel services need to address these issues asap. what do they think these things are, camping gear....tents.....volleyball nets!?! maybe QC needs to stepped up from the warehouse? don't know, but it seems its starting to become an annoyance....


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnbe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I decided to try a Gray Wolf. Picked it up at Best Buy a couple weekends ago when I could use the 12% off and I had a reward certificate so the price was right. I am using a ceiling mounted NEC HT1000. As I have been using a diy screen the upgrade has been amazing. My original plan was to get a high power when the funds became available but this looks like a keeper for now. No bad areas where the plastic was. No detectible wrinkles. My problem is I can not get the screen to go up no matter how hard I try. Since I need to move the screen to paint the wall this weekend, that does present a problem. Anyone else have this problem? Did you solve it?



It should go up, a fast jerk down should do it. So what do you think the Graywolf does for the image of the HT1000? Actually I thought it wouldn't work with the HT but was surprised when I liked it over the HP screen with that projector.


----------



## ssj2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vashon Donique* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> geez with all these delivered damaged screens, parcel services need to address these issues asap. what do they think these things are, camping gear....tents.....volleyball nets!?! maybe QC needs to stepped up from the warehouse? don't know, but it seems its starting to become an annoyance....



I've ordered various Dalite screens previously (4), all drop-shipped from the factory. None have been damaged. The screen cases are sturdier, and the packaging is much better. To me it seems the GreyWolf is not packaged properly to withstand the normal abuse of shipping.


----------



## guitarman

It's packed similar to the dalite screens I've got. It has styrofoam at the ends and along the lenght of the screen. The problem is the metal case is thinner and UPS is bouncing them on the ends. That's why we're getting outward bends along the screen opening. Most everyone's seeing bend creases outward right? I have one in the middle area. I didn't bother to press it back, probably could though.


----------



## HeadRusch

Yeah I dont think the problem is the packing....seems to me this is the type of problem that can happen in manufacturing. My bend is also in the dead center middle.


Hell for all I know it might SUPPOSED to be there, mine is exactly dead center...


But thats its only flaw...no scrapes, no chips, no bends or breaks....


----------



## guitarman

The metal is pretty plyable we could probably make it straight. The screen surface on mine seems to be flatter than day one, almost no physical waves. At the bottom you can pull the material over on each side which helps a little.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 1st Graywolf arrived too damaged to keep. The 2nd arrived today. A couple minor dents in the case, but otherwise OK. There is the slightly brighter area near the top of the screen where the plastic was. I'm hoping this fades as others have suggested.



This band across the top ....does not fade and is there for good unfortunately......and seems to be a problem on all...or most 106" versions.


----------



## ssj2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This band across the top ....does not fade and is there for good unfortunately......and seems to be a problem on all...or most 106" versions.



Without re-reading all the posts, I thought I recalled somebody had some success with either minimizing the band - or that it faded. If not, darn!


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Without re-reading all the posts, I thought I recalled somebody had some sucess with either minimizing the band - or that it faded. If not, darn!




Who ever said that probably never had the problem with seeing the banding like your describing while in use.


Different pj's with different lumens ect as well as brighter lit scenes in movies or hdtv.


The band IS a factory defect ....one way or the other and is unacceptable.


I am making my original "defective band"Gray Wolf into a 2.35 screen and will not be getting a second one until there is a reliable source to buy one from that assures no band.

Who wants to ship screens back and forth.....not me.

Mine came from B&H Photo....drop shipped from Optoma and has the band...and has not faded in three weeks at all.


Other than the band on the 106" model....this screen is a bargain imo.


----------



## jonnyozero3

My 106" GW from Best Buy had no discolored band or line underneath the plastic. I just recieved my 2nd 106" GW from pcnation, and will be checking it for a band tomorrow. I think many of the 106"ers are fine.


----------



## Randy S

So, PCNation shipped you a graywolf, not the white screen? Which part # did you order? I wonder if their sales people are linked with the warehouse; they weren't a few weeks ago.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My 106" GW from Best Buy had no discolored band or line underneath the plastic. I just recieved my 2nd 106" GW from pcnation, and will be checking it for a band tomorrow. I think many of the 106"ers are fine.



I guess I will call the three local BB's tomorrow and see if they stock the Gray wolfs then.


Its likely that BB has its own supply of them in a warehouse somewhere other than the ones coming from Optoma...drop shipped.


----------



## johnbe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So what do you think the Graywolf does for the image of the HT1000? Actually I thought it wouldn't work with the HT but was surprised when I liked it over the HP screen with that projector.



I am surprised how much punch the image has. Thought it might be a problem with ceiling mounting of the projector. For dvd's I am using it with an oppo player and the dvi out. I am still experimenting with the image from the sitting position but my wife and kids have really noticed a big difference over the homemade matte screen I had. It really shines on the hdtv from the comcast box too. Currently using that over component because I don't want to keep switching cables. We went from an X1 to the HT1000. This is like going up another notch. Right now I plan on keeping this screen and not upgrading to a HP screen. Still having trouble getting it to go back up though.


----------



## johnbe

For those wondering if the Best Buy in your area has it in stock. The best way is to go online and put in in your cart and select in-store pickup. Then when you put your zip code in it will scan the stores in your area and let you know if it is in stock in any of those stores. That's how I did it a few weeks ago. Here is the actual screen link for anybody wanting to try it.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1110263397650


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> So, PCNation shipped you a graywolf, not the white screen? Which part # did you order? I wonder if their sales people are linked with the warehouse; they weren't a few weeks ago.



Yup, it is a graywolf. I ordered it back on July 26 or so and it took awhile to get in stock, but I did get it. I called twice and both times asked customer service to attach a special note to my order requesting that the warehouse people double-check to ensure the box said "graywolf 1.8 gain." I explained quickly that the part numbers for the white screen and the gray one were the same, and that's why I was making the request. They didn't have a problem accomodating my request at all. Nice people and a good price.


I checked for a discolored band on the 106" in normal light and didn't see anything, but I will be running the PJ tonight and will double-check then.


----------



## theinvid

got my 106" graywolf last night and hung it on the wall.

case has some denting in it...1 big one...and 2 other smaller ones i was able to bend back into shape (for the most part)


I very slowly pulled off the plastic at the top...very slowly...and i still can see a lighter line there. My z3 projector hasn't arrived yet so i'm not sure how it will affect the image.


Has anyone been able to 'rig a repair' for that lighter line in the velvet at the top caused by the tape??


----------



## miltimj

I don't really notice the line in the black border. Also, FWIW, my plastic came falling off of both of my screens as soon as I opened them for the first time (and I don't see the banding).


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theinvid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> got my 106" graywolf last night and hung it on the wall.
> 
> case has some denting in it...1 big one...and 2 other smaller ones i was able to bend back into shape (for the most part)
> 
> 
> I very slowly pulled off the plastic at the top...very slowly...and i still can see a lighter line there. My z3 projector hasn't arrived yet so i'm not sure how it will affect the image.
> 
> 
> Has anyone been able to 'rig a repair' for that lighter line in the velvet at the top caused by the tape??



My plastic just fell off when I pulled the screen down and has the lighter band which in my set up is showing up more than half of the time.


I don't see any way to repair it....other than blackening that part out and making a 2.35 specific screen out of it.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnbe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For those wondering if the Best Buy in your area has it in stock. The best way is to go online and put in in your cart and select in-store pickup. Then when you put your zip code in it will scan the stores in your area and let you know if it is in stock in any of those stores. That's how I did it a few weeks ago. Here is the actual screen link for anybody wanting to try it.
> 
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1110263397650



None of the three local BB's or two others 30 miles away have these in stock....but thanks for the link as it saved me several phone calls.


Can I order online.....and return locally if there is a light band?


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can I order online.....and return locally if there is a light band?


 Yes, you can.


----------



## HeadRusch

Has anyone here received a 106" Greywolf that did NOT come with a plastic sheet?


On mine I saw no difference in screen until I saw a light blue sky projected....i could then see the band of lighter color along the top........


I still have the box...I'm wondering if Optoma is aware of htis problem and if they intend to replace the screens.


As it is, mine is hardly a distraction and its only noticible on all light colored backgrounds, primarly blue....on all other content, I look hard and still can't see it.....but on blue sky backgrounds, I do notice it IF I look specifically for the line where the differences occur.


----------



## theinvid

I wonder if a black sharpie would fix the problem.


So, no one is aware of a solution?


----------



## SMP01

Am I noticing a trend that only those with 106" screens are noticing the light band. Anyone with the 92" screen see the banding?


I could be way off here.


----------



## mystery

I don't think that any of the 92" screens have had this problem yet but I could be mistaken.


Wayne


----------



## richh

looks like there are two "banding" issues that might be getting mixed up; one being in the top black border where the adhesive for the protective film was (about an 1 1/2"). the other being in the actual gray viewing portion of the screen (about 12"?).


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/0
> 
> Yes, you can.



Thanks...thats good to know.

I think I will wait to see if jonnyzero reports a band on his 106" from pcnation before ordering one though.


I just got done painting my ceilings a very dark grayish/brown and my walls a dark gray/greenish color so by tommorow....I will be able to compare the Gray Wolf in a dark room with complete light control.


Off to get some flat black paint for the white casing now.....and as soon as I can get my hands on another 106" without the banding.....I will be painting my first 106" for 2.35 use only.


----------



## Ximori

Tom, you must be enjoying your new toy today - the Optoma Movietime DV10. Pls tell us how it stacks up against the H31 (using Oppo) on the Graywolf.


I'm guessing the image might have some uniformity issues, with the DV10 positioned somewhat closer up front and lower to the screen. On the other hand, it's brightness can make up and give a better look overall. Anyhow, I would like you, of course, to compare them from a 1.5x screen width viewing distance. Some comparison shots from the same angle will greatly be appreciated.


----------



## ssj2

I just sent mine back to B&H due to the band -- it's a great screen, but that's a deal killer. I'm going to keep trying until I get one without the band. The next one will be coming from PCNation.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ximori* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom, you must be enjoying your new toy today - the Optoma Movietime DV10. Pls tell us how it stacks up against the H31 (using Oppo) on the Graywolf.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing the image might have some uniformity issues, with the DV10 positioned somewhat closer up front and lower to the screen. On the other hand, it's brightness can make up and give a better look overall. Anyhow, I would like you, of course, to compare them from a 1.5x screen width viewing distance. Some comparison shots from the same angle will greatly be appreciated.



Not yet, they just called me, it's on the truck today so Monday or Tuesday. Can't wait to try in on the Graywolf.. One thing I'm going to do is use it outside on the garage door, Nemo for the neighborhood kids should be interesting.


----------



## g3dahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SMP01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Am I noticing a trend that only those with 106" screens are noticing the light band. Anyone with the 92" screen see the banding?



I have the 92" Graywolf from PCNation. It came with the plastic screen protector, same as on the larger model. There is indeed a _verrrry_ slight band across the top, not bad but it is there. I haven't ever noticed it during a movie.


Gary Dahl


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g3dahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the 92" Graywolf from PCNation. It came with the plastic screen protector, same as on the larger model. There is indeed a _verrrry_ slight band across the top, not bad but it is there. I haven't ever noticed it during a movie.
> 
> 
> Gary Dahl



I got a 92" from PCNation too. There were 2 big dents right in the front. I called PCNation last week and Optoma today. Both said they "could" exchange it, but I'd have to pay for my shipping. I dents are noticeable, but for the work I have to go through plus there's no guarantee the next one will be perfect, I think I'm just keeping the one I have.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Earz -


Well, much to my chagrin I noticed a light band at the top of the grey portion of my new 106. I knew I should have just brought this new one to BB and kept the original, haha.


Anyhow, even though I have noticed it on a solid PJ-menu-produce background color (blue or gray), I didn't notice it at all watching Battlestar Galactica tonight. I think I'll probably just keep the screen because it is barely noticeable. My screen casing is bent outwards lighlty in two places as well (ups standing it on end I guess), and the screen doesn't come down evenly (1/4-1/2" difference of black border on the top of each side). Optoma needs to revise the packing method and maybe do some quality control on the production side.


That said, this is all to my overly anal-retentive-critical eye. I'll probably be keeping the screen because, for $167 it's a steal. I have less "super quasar bright" glass beads on this one. I may augment the setup with something from Carada down the road, but for now my money will be going towards figuring out what damn dvd player to get and to saving for an Hsu VTF-3 HO.


My wallet and the moths in it hate my hobbies.


----------



## Itsdon

Quick question. If the Grey Wolf was too dim for me (while seated) using my ceiling mounted Sharp DT-300, would the highpower be any better (or worse)? Currently my Da-Lite B HCMW is pulling all the duty but it's displaying moire patterns. The Grey Wolf didn't but I sit outside the cone and and the picture dims to unusable levels. Anyway, I've been contemplating a HP and was wondering if anyone who has used both can offer up some advice. Would I still be sitting outside the 'cone' with the HP?


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Quick question. If the Grey Wolf was too dim for me (while seated) using my ceiling mounted Sharp DT-300, would the highpower be any better (or worse)? Currently my Da-Lite B HCMW is pulling all the duty but it's displaying moire patterns. The Grey Wolf didn't but I sit outside the cone and and the picture dims to unusable levels. Anyway, I've been contemplating a HP and was wondering if anyone who has used both can offer up some advice. Would I still be sitting outside the 'cone' with the HP?



Let me preface this by saying I have seen neither screen in person, but I've been following this thread closely and I think I can summarize most people's findings....


You will still be out of the "ideal" cone for the HP. However if you are looking for added brightness, the HP should still improve your picture for 2 reasons:


1) The gain of the HP is much higher to begin with, so sitting outside the cone (depending on your projector height) you should still see gains of something between 1.1-1.5. The graywolf starts at 1.8 and assuming a similar angle for the cone, you would be well below that.


2) The HP is white. The graywolf is dark gray. Hence all things being equal, the HP should reflect more light and have a brighter picture.


The tradeoff for your brighter picture? You will be losing contrast. It depends whats important to you. But if the extreme angle makes the graywolf unwatchable, then your choice is an easy one. If you still don't like the punch of the HP, then you're probably going to have to stay away from retro-reflective screens altogether.


----------



## darinp2

Tom,


One more possible improvement they could make to the GrayWolf, IMO. I think it has a blue push and with UHP bulbs (like Optoma's) I think that giving it a red push (if anything) would likely be better for use with these projectors. My guess is that they could just change the mixture in the gray used to have a little more red push.


--Darin


----------



## Randy S

Best estimates (someone may have taken actual readings earlier in this thread) for this retro-reflective screen in conjunction with a ceiling mounted PJ indicate that it will yield roughly 0.8 gain. Do the fl math and see if you come a with a number that will be acceptable to you.


FOOT LAMBERTS = (LUMENS X GAIN) / (SQ. FOOTAGE OF SCREEN)


Example for a 106" diagonal screen with a 578 lumen projector


578 lumen PJ X 0.8 gain screen = 462.4 effective lumens


52"x92" screen = 4784 sq. inches 4784 / 144 = 33.2 sq ft


462.4 / 33.2 = 13.9 foot lamberts


----------



## Nedtsc

Anyway to retrofit an electric motor?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnbe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am surprised how much punch the image has. Thought it might be a problem with ceiling mounting of the projector. For dvd's I am using it with an oppo player and the dvi out. I am still experimenting with the image from the sitting position but my wife and kids have really noticed a big difference over the homemade matte screen I had. It really shines on the hdtv from the comcast box too. Currently using that over component because I don't want to keep switching cables. We went from an X1 to the HT1000. This is like going up another notch. Right now I plan on keeping this screen and not upgrading to a HP screen. Still having trouble getting it to go back up though.



The blacks and contrast help allot with the HT1000. You probably noticed how your colors all got more intense. I was surprised it worked also with the HT being under 300lumens in econo, but it did look better.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tom,
> 
> 
> One more possible improvement they could make to the GrayWolf, IMO. I think it has a blue push and with UHP bulbs (like Optoma's) I think that giving it a red push (if anything) would likely be better for use with these projectors. My guess is that they could just change the mixture in the gray used to have a little more red push.
> 
> 
> --Darin



I'll mention that to Wing, he had part in the formula. I tuned the screen up with the Gretag Eye-one early on. Colors look pretty good. Can you see tint's in this image? Here's that lady again.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h79graywolf1.jpg


----------



## mystery

Warning! Example of extreme stupidity and ignorance coming up


Brick and Mortar stores are clueless about this screen. Even the ones that are Optoma dealers.


Case in point: I'm so angry at the way I was treated on Thursday by 'The Power Station' in my hometown, a reputed 'high end' electronics boutique don't ya know. I paid a visit to them knowing that they are Optoma dealers for Home Theater in this area and inquired about the Greywolf screen.


Surprise, surprise! They hadn't heard of it. And furthermore, I was told by one enlightened salesperson that "Optoma doesn't make screens". I replied, "Oh yes they do!". His comeuppance? "Well, I can guarantee you that somebody made it for them". I told him I didn't care who makes it, I just wanted a bloody quote on it.


So here's an Optoma dealer, clueless about the new product, being educated by me, a consumer, after having displayed his ignorance and his belligerence. I imagine that I had rudely interrupted him while he was reading Dale Carnegie's 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'.


I could go on analyzing this for you but you all get my drift I think.


I had to share this experience. Maddening I tell you.


Wayne


----------



## Scruffy

Wayne,


I received the following e-mail from Optoma Canada on 04 August 2005:


To purchase the screen, what I can do is give you a name of one of our distributors who would have a dealer within your area, as we do not sell to the public directly.


Our distributor is xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx, the contact there is xxxxx xxxx and the phone number is xxx xxx xxxx.


In terms of price, the manufacturers suggested retail price (MSRP) on the screen is 250, so you should be able to find the screen at approximately that price.


I phoned the distributor and he was unaware of the Gray Wolf. I forwarded my e-mail exchange with Optoma Canada and requested that he get back to me wrt the availability of the screen. I e-mailed him again yesterday (Friday); but, there has been no response.


Peter


----------



## mystery

Thanks Peter,


I've found the screen locally through another Optoma dealer that specializes in business projectors. They weren't aware of it either but they were professional and didn't hesitate to offer to learn about it and get back to me with a price. They did that and it's very competitive, even lower than MSRP.


Wayne


----------



## jkirby

The installation guide says to put the screen up when not in use. Since I have this in a dedicated HT room, I was planning on having it rolled down constantly. is this okay? or this really a good reason to roll it up when not in use?


----------



## jonnyozero3

I'd say keep it rolled down. I have to beat the crap out of mine to get it to roll up







If it gets dusty you can wipe it down gently with a gentle cloth.


----------



## Nomad_33FW_58FS

This may sound stupid, but I am sure someone else has already tried this and can save me a little trouble. I picked up a 106" Gray Wolf at BB to use with my X1. My X1 is mounted about 8" from the ceiling, and 11 ft or so back. I know this screen is made for table top projectors. My question is; if I mount the screen upside down, will it change the reflectivity? When I stand up at projector height the image is beautifully bright. When I sit down it looks ok, actually with movies and such it looks pretty good, compared to the wall I was projecting on.


----------



## DAMAC

A table-mounted PJ works better because the angle of reflection back to your eyes is smaller than the angle made from a ceiling-mounted PJ to your eyes. Turning the screen upside down won't change anything.


----------



## Itsdon

Damac is right, the screen will reflect the light back to the source no matter what position it in. I had the exact same issues and promptly sold my Gray Wolf. Just didn't cut it for me and my ceiling mounted PJ. I just ordered up a Da-Lite High Power from Jason (great guy!) and am expecting it in a week or so. I understand that I'll still be out of the 'cone zone' but at least with a much higher gain (2.8 vs. 1.8) to begin with, I can afford to lose a bunch and still be as good if not better than my HCMW. We'll see.


The Gray Wolf did put out a fantastic picture for those in the zone though, I just couldn't watch every movie standing up!


----------



## NoMore

I heard a lot of people like the HighPower, but the GrayWolf is more competitively priced than the HighPower. So to me the Graywolf was a better choice.


----------



## johnbe

How high off the ground are you guys putting your projectors. The center of my lens is 7 feet off the ground and I am losing no noticable brightness when I am sitting in my front row and I am 12 feet back. My kids lay on the floor so after reading how bad it was, tonight I tried that and it was a very watchable picture. As a matter of fact, my 12 year old ask me tonight why the picture looks so good?That was with ESPNHD Steelers game. It lost very little brightness. I would say way less than 10%. This is with a NEC HT1000.


----------



## miltimj

I have mine at 6.5' high, and sit about 13' back, and the difference between standing and sitting on the floor is easily 30-40%. If you have a completely black room, it's going to look much, much better though, and a graywolf will be fine for a ceiling mount. Since I have a lot of ambient light most of the time, it didn't work for me (just got rid of it...)


----------



## Nomad_33FW_58FS

Mine is almost 8 ft, I could lower it a little but then end up with a smaller picture. Still though, it looks fine in a dark room and that is normally how I watch it. I will have to mess with it a little more and see what I can do, maybe time to buy some new furniture so I can table mount the projector.


----------



## jonnyozero3

I have mine at about 6.5' high also, I sit about 12.5 ft back and I see a difference, but the picture is still plenty good. But, there is a noticeable drop in brightness.


Regarding the Graywolf and the Da-Lite High Power - I have a stack of Da-Lite screen samples and I did not like the HP at all in any use. The black level was far to elevated for me. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or if my setup is biased against it, but it didn't do it for me. The HP has great "neon" looking colors, but it seemed very unnatural to me, and the medium gray blacks were horrendous. I'm sure it has it's uses for many people, but it has none in my HT. I liked the Carada samples and a few of the other Da-Lite samples as well. However, because it's so cheap the Greywolf is staying for the time being; maybe someday in the next year or so I may upgrade, but it's fine for now.


----------



## Ken00b

I'm brand new so give me a second on my soap box. You guys and this forum rock. I've been researching and snooping into home theater for ~3yrs now and this thread finally got me to pull the trigger.


I'm on a very low budget, but I just ordered a graywolf, 4805 (JBL SCS300.7, too). I'm scared to see how mine will look because I'm doing ceiling mount at ~8.5' and want to be able to handle ambient light. Since I've never had anything other than a borrowed bus. proj. from work I'm hoping my eyes aren't yet too picky. I'll give you my (ignorant) opinions after I get the equipment this Thursday.


THANK you all for the time you take to share your info!


----------



## Itsdon

Ken00B, welcome to the obsession!







I believe the Gray Wolf to be very situation dependent. Certain PJ's at certain mounting points with certain seating areas will alternately produce great to ghastly images. I'm sure there is a formula for finding out just what to expect but I haven't found it yet.


My 'situation' is (was) having a short throw, low lumen PJ (I hate the word Dim







) ceiling mounted, 9' back of the screen. My seating area consists of a leather sofa 15 feet back. I believe the "cone" is smaller for me because my PJ is not above my head where I would benefit from the retro reflective nature of the GW. The light is finding it's way back to the source which is 6' in front of me. There was no situation where I could get a decently bright picture from the GW unless I stood up. The brightness drop off while sitting wasn't minor - it was dramatic. Perhaps if the DT-300 where a light canon the brightness drop off would be welcome but with it's 700 Ansi lumens (on full brightness) it just didn't have the nads to bring a bright picture to those sitting outside the cone. I'm hoping the HighPower will change all that.


----------



## johnbe

I can watch high-def material with my two 60 watt recessed ceiling lights on. Of course, it is washed out somewhat, but if I want to read a paper or get on the computer in the room I can with no problems. So it must be the lumens of the projectors or the quality control of the screens. But the HT1000 is no light cannon. I can't imagine a 30-40% drop-off for every ceiling mounted projector. They wouldn't be selling very many of these things. Maybe if I get time this weekend I will snap a picture so you can see the difference.


----------



## Ken00b

Wow, I never thought of the ceiling mount with those angles (obtuse). I can see how the cone could really be affected by angles. My setup will be 4805 at 8.5' height and 13' back. Sofa at 13' back as well. I'll give a report once I've got it setup. johnbe, what're your measurements?(







)


----------



## miltimj

Itsdon, great point about the throw of the projector. I have a short throw PJ, and that definitely contributed to the larger angle difference between my eyes and the PJ. A long throw projector would bring the cone much closer to your eyes.


----------



## SMP01

Anybody paint the case black yet? I assume flat black.


Also, did you also paint the pull-down bar?


Results?


----------



## guitarman

I tried the Optoma Movie Time with the Graywolf. Since the MT has to be table mounted I picked up all sorts of gain. Almost way too much for this projector, it's producing up near 1,000 lumens. That's like 40Ftl off the 106" screen.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SMP01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody paint the case black yet? I assume flat black.
> 
> 
> Also, did you also paint the pull-down bar?
> 
> 
> Results?




I painted both flat black....but also just painted my ceiling very dark and my walls a darker color than they were.


While watching the new Sin City release(Which is the bar setter imo of all dvd transfers) My entry level Infocus 4805 had me thinking I already had purchased an h-78







.....thats how much difference it made in combination with the room.


I found the white case and bar distracting before painting them flat black.


----------



## ssj2

Earz, what kind of paint did you use, and how did you apply?


----------



## johnbe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ken00b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, I never thought of the ceiling mount with those angles (obtuse). I can see how the cone could really be affected by angles. My setup will be 4805 at 8.5' height and 13' back. Sofa at 13' back as well. I'll give a report once I've got it setup. johnbe, what're your measurements?(
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



My room is 12 x 18 and total light control. Ceiling height at the projector is 7 1/2 feet. 1st row of seats are 13' back and 2nd row is 17' back. I have the projector 14' back ceiling mounted. There are no bad angles in my theater with this setup.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Earz, what kind of paint did you use, and how did you apply?



I just used your common Rustoleum brand black flat enamel.


This is oil based so you either need ventilation or an open garage.

I took the screen out to my garage and scuffed up the case and bottom bar with 220 grit sandpaper, then I sprayed all but the very top of the case which you can't see with two coats and 3 hours dry time in between coats.


Then after that dried, I hung the screen upside down from a nail to get at the rest of the bottom bar.


Other than the dry time , its a quick and easy process and any over spray that hits the black border will not hurt anything.


If you hang it upside down to get the bar, you may want to tape off within the black border in order to keep from possibly getting over spray that could drift into the gray part of the screen.


One can of spray paint is plenty....and you let the screen sit overnight after the second coat before handling imo.


----------



## jkirby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnbe* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My room is 12 x 18 and total light control. Ceiling height at the projector is 7 1/2 feet. 1st row of seats are 13' back and 2nd row is 17' back. I have the projector 14' back ceiling mounted. There are no bad angles in my theater with this setup.



Do you mean the project lens is 7.5' off the ground? or is the ceiling height itself 7.5' high - so the projector hangs even lower?


I have 9' high ceilings and a ceiling mount that can drop 12".... so PJ lens will be about 8' off of ground. room is 13x16 total light control. Will sit 14' back and PJ will also be about 14' back (right above me). Installing screen next week in room - hope this will work for me!! Don't want to paint the casing black if I have to return it!


----------



## guitarman

With the Graywolfs very large upper black border there isn't much reflection on the white case. Not like the Dalites with the 2inch border, with these the white case lights up.


----------



## Itlnstln

I am considering one of these screens to replace a BO Cloth screen (80"). I have a ceiling-mounted PJ (Mits HC 100u). It has a 27 deg offset , and sits about 14" or so from the ceiling. In the main seating position, my eyes are middle of the screen (the bottom of the screen is about 15" from the floor). With this in mind, I should be in the viewing cone for the Graywolf, correct? Unfortunately, I do not have any exact measurements available since I am at work.







I'll try to get those up ASAP. Thanks.


----------



## johnbe




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkirby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you mean the project lens is 7.5' off the ground? or is the ceiling height itself 7.5' high - so the projector hangs even lower?



The ceiling height is 7.5'. The center of the lens of my projector is 7'.


----------



## guitarman

You're not out of the outside area's of the viewing cone. Ofcourse you're missing some gain from the ceiling mount but if rprojectors anywhere near 300 tuned lumens you should like the image you'll get. You'll pick up the other benefits, no waves with video, better blacks, colors, light reflections.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the Graywolfs very large upper black border there isn't much reflection on the white case. Not like the Dalites with the 2inch border, with these the white case lights up.




Yes...but not everyone uses the full pulled down screen with every situation....mine has about a 1inch border and so it was a must to paint the white while using my 4805.


My stand mounted cc is out of the picture with this set up.


When I get my H-78 shelf mounted on friday....I will have to see how that pj fits the screen... so this may have to change.


----------



## ssj2

I just received my 3rd GrayWolf today. the 1st from B&H was too badly damaged to keep. The 2nd from B&H had the horizontal band near the top -- very distracting.


3rd time must be the charm. That, or it's PCNation's stock, because the one from them which arrived today (for $40 less) has no band at all! It's a keeper!


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just received my 3rd GrayWolf today. the 1st from B&H was too badly damaged to keep. The 2nd from B&H had the horizontal band near the top -- very distracting.
> 
> 
> 3rd time must be the charm. That, or it's PCNation's stock, because the one from them which arrived today (for $40 less) has no band at all! It's a keeper!




Is it a 106" version?


----------



## HeadRusch

Better check hard on that 106"....mine has the band, but its inperceivable in room lighting with the screen down. Only when an image is projected does the band actually "show up". Still, its not bad enough for me to warrant a return........


Even I forget about it most of the time...meaning its almost imperceivable...


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ssj2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just received my 3rd GrayWolf today. the 1st from B&H was too badly damaged to keep.



Maybe they sent me your's.







I first got a white screen and then sent that back, then yesterday the replacement showed up. The screen case is pretty beat up in the center. That wouldn't bother me, except that the screen has maybe 8 dots evenly spaced vertically right down the center of the screen. I'll look to see if there is anything I can do about it, but I doubt it.


--Darin


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes...but not everyone uses the full pulled down screen with every situation....mine has about a 1inch border and so it was a must to paint the white while using my 4805.
> 
> 
> My stand mounted cc is out of the picture with this set up.
> 
> 
> When I get my H-78 shelf mounted on friday....I will have to see how that pj fits the screen... so this may have to change.



I know I had mine first set with the 1/4" upper border and couldn't wait to set it up at the ceiling for the full black border. The screen made a hugh difference for me from the HP with the Dark Chip3. Kids were over watching Sin City last night, I took a couple of looks and the black and contrast on the movie looked incredible.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe they sent me your's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I first got a white screen and then sent that back, then yesterday the replacement showed up. The screen case is pretty beat up in the center. That wouldn't bother me, except that the screen has maybe 8 dots evenly spaced vertically right down the center of the screen. I'll look to see if there is anything I can do about it, but I doubt it.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Maybe we should tag it "Graywolf third times the charm" take another swing at it.










Better luck


----------



## Itlnstln

OK, I got my measurements. My eye level is 37" pj lens center is 71" and bottom of the screen is 18" (top is 47") from the floor. Since my eye-level is about dead-on to the center of the screen, I should be right in the "sweet-spot," correct? I have also been thinking about using either Dalite's CV or HCCV material (my current screen is a melamine board covered w/the BO cloth, and, frankly, I like the way the fixed-frame screen looks vs. a pull down esp. since there is no chance for waves). Would the Graywolf be a worth scraping the BO cloth for vs. using one of the aforementioned Dalite items? Thanks.


----------



## guitarman

You could try it out as a pull down at first, then turn it into a fixed DIY if you want. Since your PJ is ceiling mounted, if you consider the Mits a bright projector the Graywolf would work for better blacks. If the PJ is on the dim side the CV might be better but your giving up the added black.


----------



## ssj2

Yes, mine is the 106" version.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know I had mine first set with the 1/4" upper border and couldn't wait to set it up at the ceiling for the full black border. The screen made a hugh difference for me from the HP with the Dark Chip3. Kids were over watching Sin City last night, I took a couple of looks and the black and contrast on the movie looked incredible.



Well Sin City is a fantastic transfer and theres no reason why big kids like us can't also get in on the action










Speaking of kids, I bought my 13 year old son a Gibson SG as well as an English made Marshall tube/hybrid amp for his birthday.....are these current generation kids spoiled....or what?


All I got was a used Yamaha classical that cost about 50.00 when I was his age


----------



## A2D

I finally finished reading all the posts, gees it took me 6 hours.

Anyway, I am leaning towards getting a GW for my DT300. It is table mounted, will GW be brighter than my homemade blackout cloth screen? I do not want to loss any light output.


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know I had mine first set with the 1/4" upper border and couldn't wait to set it up at the ceiling for the full black border. The screen made a hugh difference for me from the HP with the Dark Chip3. Kids were over watching Sin City last night, I took a couple of looks and the black and contrast on the movie looked incredible.



I watched Sin City tonight on my 4805 and Greywolf too. The black/white contrast was incredible. Mine is ceiling mount so it's not quite as bright, but it was still plenty bright in my opinion. Too bad I have to part with my greywolf for a few weeks because the one I got came with dents, so I'm sending it back for a new one, and they said the turn around time will take a couple of weeks. Sigh....


----------



## miltimj

A2D, since it's table mounted it will be a bit brighter, but more importantly it will look much better than your blackout cloth (for not much more of a price).


----------



## bradbissell

I currently have a 92" Firehawk with my tweaked Panasonic AE700U and was wondering how the GreyWolf compares against the Firehawk? I'm most interested in moving up to the 106" and if it has too many waves cut it down to fit the Stewart frame. My projector is now table mounted and I would definately be sitting in the viewing cone. Any thoughts???


Also, so far which place has had the most sucess with undamaged/light streaked screens? Obviously my first choice would be AVScience, but other places are also on the table. I prefer free shipping, as most here probably do.










Thanks!


-Brad


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well Sin City is a fantastic transfer and theres no reason why big kids like us can't also get in on the action
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of kids, I bought my 13 year old son a Gibson SG as well as an English made Marshall tube/hybrid amp for his birthday.....are these current generation kids spoiled....or what?
> 
> 
> All I got was a used Yamaha classical that cost about 50.00 when I was his age




Funny, my first new guit was $35 a Harmony Montery F-hole job added a Lafayette pickguard pickup with volume nob, real high tech. New tunes at the time were Gloria, and the first Stones album. How'd I get old so fast, but near as old as Mick Jagger.










How about that Graywolf, heh!


----------



## A2D

I just got a email reply from Jason, AVS stop selling GW due to quality issues. So which place has the best successful rate for 106? No Bestbuys within 100 miles has it in stock. Guess I have to order online.


----------



## Bajajim

Paid about $35 for my first guitar also, bought while stationed in Japan in 1960, wish I'd kept it, seems like most guitars are made in Japan now. Still got an Ovation from 1970, a 20 year old Washburn Monterey, an Ovation Adamas, and have just ordered a Washburn HB35 - wish I was as good a player as these guitars deserve, but I'm still at it and older than Jagger.


Still haven't been able to try out my new GW 106", its going to Baja and no place to set it up here -- maybe Labor Day weekend.


I got my GW from Amazon (one dent) with free shipping - Buy.com does have it cheaper tho.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Maybe we should tag it "Graywolf third times the charm" take another swing at it.



At least my first one (80" wide) arrived fine and I've been enjoying it for a while. I looked closer at the new one (the 92" wide) and part of the material is scraped off the screen at each of the dots running down the center, so I'm going to have to send it back.


--Darin


----------



## SKoprowski

A while ago I talked with Dalite about a gray HP screen material and they said they were looking into it. Let's hope Dalite is serious about one- looks like Optoma was reading this same forum when it was suggested. I had a Graywolf in my hands yesterday, but put it down because of the white case and reading all these quality problems. I hope Optoma sorts this out. My local Microcenter had 2 of them.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bajajim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Paid about $35 for my first guitar also, bought while stationed in Japan in 1960, wish I'd kept it, seems like most guitars are made in Japan now. Still got an Ovation from 1970, a 20 year old Washburn Monterey, an Ovation Adamas, and have just ordered a Washburn HB35 - wish I was as good a player as these guitars deserve, but I'm still at it and older than Jagger.
> 
> 
> Still haven't been able to try out my new GW 106", its going to Baja and no place to set it up here -- maybe Labor Day weekend.
> 
> 
> I got my GW from Amazon (one dent) with free shipping - Buy.com does have it cheaper tho.



It looks like most will have dents, because the case metel is so thin and shipping care. I wouldn't worry about case cosmetic flaw. You could use a rubber hammer and straigten them out, or even your palm. You're all seeing the same thing right, the metal bends outward? Definetly from banging on the ends. Screen surface flaws is another thing.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *A2D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got a email reply from Jason, AVS stop selling GW due to quality issues. So which place has the best successful rate for 106? No Bestbuys within 100 miles has it in stock. Guess I have to order online.



They don't want to deal with returns until a pristine one gets sent out. Plus again the UPS guy will have his way with it. lol


I don't blame them


----------



## V.X.Donique




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Vashon Donique* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> geez with all these delivered damaged screens, parcel services need to address these issues asap. what do they think these things are, camping gear....tents.....volleyball nets!?! maybe QC needs to stepped up from the warehouse? don't know, but it seems its starting to become an annoyance....



AH....YUP.


----------



## Itsdon

Can anyone help me determine what my viewing angle is (I suck at math or geometry or whatever it is!)? MY PJ is ceiling mounted and the center of the lens is 88". The lens is approx. 9' back of the screen which also hangs from the ceiling (92" diagonal). I sit back 15' from the screen and my eyes are at 43" (or 33" if the movie sucks!). I know my daughters calculator can figure this out with one or two of the 14,000 buttons it has, I just don't know which ones to push!


I'm trying to figure out if the Da-Lite High Power will be a better choice for me than the Gray Wolf was. Da-Lite says it has a 30 degree cone for optimal viewing. I thought the Gray Wolf did also but it dropped of a bunch when I sat down to my normal view position. Any bored mathematicians out there?


----------



## Assayer

The UPS guy had his way with my new GW as well. I was planning to cut it off and mount on a custom-sized DIY frame anyway, so this was not a big deal. At least Amazon's fulfillment house is now sending out the correct screen.


I'm not very impressed with the construction quality of this screen and the sparkle/texture is annoying for viewing from less than about 15' back, but it does help a lot with my ambient light problem. I so wish Dalite would hurry up and develop a gray high power. Since their plant is only about thirty miles from here, I should probably go raz them about it.


----------



## Hughman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can anyone help me determine what my viewing angle is (I suck at math or geometry or whatever it is!)? MY PJ is ceiling mounted and the center of the lens is 88". The lens is approx. 9' back of the screen which also hangs from the ceiling (92" diagonal). I sit back 15' from the screen and my eyes are at 43" (or 33" if the movie sucks!). I know my daughters calculator can figure this out with one or two of the 14,000 buttons it has, I just don't know which ones to push!
> 
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if the Da-Lite High Power will be a better choice for me than the Gray Wolf was. Da-Lite says it has a 30 degree cone for optimal viewing. I thought the Gray Wolf did also but it dropped of a bunch when I sat down to my normal view position. Any bored mathematicians out there?



Your viewing angles range from approx 17 degrees from top of screen to 23 degrees at bottom, center of screen should be about 20 degrees. These angles are outside the gain cone of the HP therefore you will be in the negative gain range with your setup. If you're looking to reduce light output added with some ambient ligt rejection qualities then these screens will work well for you. Perhaps you'll even find a GW which didn't get too banged up during the boat ride from China.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tested a half/half setup of my High Power and Graywolf during the day (dimmed room) yesterday. Guess what, the high power got rolled back up. It looked washed out, I lost all my colors and blacks comparred to the graywolf.




Tom-


Is there any way you could post pictures of this scenario (ambient light) using your ceiling mount projector? That would really seal the deal for me...My local Best Buy has 2 in stock and I've been waffling between the two for some time.


Thanks!


----------



## trbizwiz

Sorry for getting off topic a bit, but i think this is the best place for my question. I am getting an optoma h79 today (last one I could find for the old street price) and iI am a few weeks away form setting up my HT room (construction). herin lies my problem, my pj distance requires 114 in screen or larger, and my pj will be mounted 6' 8" high behind seating directly overhead. i have been looking at the carada 114 fixed screen probably the gray (.8 gain) with the 3.5 inch beveled border and black hole cover, how does this screen compare to the gray wolf in pq?


----------



## kel

While I can't deal with the screen texture, for anyone who is buying one, I will add that I got a close to perfect 106" from B&H. They sent the right one the first time, the plastic strip at the top fell out when I rolled the screen down and, after looking (with images and without), I didn't see any vertical band. There is one really minor cosmetic ding in it that you can't see from more than maybe 3 feet away. Can't guarantee anything, just adding my experience if there is anyone taking a poll










- Kel


----------



## cpumechanic

Hi


Just spoke to "Sales" at PCnation and they agreed to order the screen with a comment that indicated "grey only".

Yesterday they indicated that I "should not order" because there was so much confusion.


I also spoke to "customer service" and indicated that I wanted to be sure that I got the grey screen... not the white screen... and they were not very helpful. Understatement and Sarcasam on.


They Indicated that "part #" was the only thing they would go by and did not know anything about adding any "comment" to the try to get the correct item shipped.


They did indicate that I could "refuse" the shipment (unopened) and that is my plan if the wrong unit arrives.


Sigh.. sure wish this was easier.


CPU.


----------



## jonnyozero3

That's odd - I had two different customer service rep's at PCnation make a note to attach to the order indicating Grey only. My experience went smoothly. Interesting.


----------



## mw1030

My experience went smoothly too. I talked to a Rebecca in Sales today and she was very helpful. She indicated it had been a big mess because of the part number, but she put a note on there to make sure the gray one was shipped. She also said it was a very good thing I called to make sure it was the gray one sent or I most likely would have received a white screen! So, if anyone is going to order this Optoma screen from PCNation you'd better follow up with a phone call to make sure it is shipped correctly. Apparently PC Nation is shipping a ton of these screens!


Michael


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hugh2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your viewing angles range from approx 17 degrees from top of screen to 23 degrees at bottom, center of screen should be about 20 degrees. These angles are outside the gain cone of the HP therefore you will be in the negative gain range with your setup. If you're looking to reduce light output added with some ambient ligt rejection qualities then these screens will work well for you. Perhaps you'll even find a GW which didn't get too banged up during the boat ride from China.



Thanks for doing the math, I appreciate it. I'm actually trying to increase my brightness, not decrease it. I had a Gray Wolf up but the combination of the narrow cone and 1.8 gain made it less bright for me than my HCMW screen when seated. I know I'll be out of the cone with the HP also but the cone appears to be bigger and the gain is 2.8 to begin with. Is there more math we can do to determine what my actual gain would be with the HP if I'm sitting 10 degrees outside the cone (30 degree cone, 20 degree seated position)?


Man, where were you guys when I was in high school? I always ended up cheating off of the dumb kids....


----------



## Hughman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for doing the math, I appreciate it. I'm actually trying to increase my brightness, not decrease it. I had a Gray Wolf up but the combination of the narrow cone and 1.8 gain made it less bright for me than my HCMW screen when seated. I know I'll be out of the cone with the HP also but the cone appears to be bigger and the gain is 2.8 to begin with. Is there more math we can do to determine what my actual gain would be with the HP if I'm sitting 10 degrees outside the cone (30 degree cone, 20 degree seated position)?
> 
> 
> Man, where were you guys when I was in high school? I always ended up cheating off of the dumb kids....



On the first page of this thread Darinp2 has listed, in a table, viewing angles and associated gain for the HP.


"cheating off the dumb kids", that's funny!


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hugh2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> On the first page of this thread Darinp2 has listed, in a table, viewing angles and associated gain for the HP.
> 
> 
> "cheating off the dumb kids", that's funny!



Thanks, I thought I read the whole thread - guess I just bypassed that part. So if your earlier calculations were correct (you were one of the smart kids, right?







) then I should have a gain of 2.05 which is awesome! If my blacks don't suffer too much it should keep me happy (and quiet!) for a while. Thanks.


----------



## NoMore

I got a 92" from PCNation a few weeks ago, it had a few dings, but the screen was perfect. I requested a RMA and they offered to pick up the screen and return shipping for free. Now that's customer service!


Just FYI, the email says the turn around time is about 2-3 weeks. I don't want not having a screen for 3 week and risking the next one I get have the plastic line, so I'm going to cancel the RMA and live with those dings. I'd definitely buy from PCNation again.


----------



## Hughman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks, I thought I read the whole thread - guess I just bypassed that part. So if your earlier calculations were correct (you were one of the smart kids, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) then I should have a gain of 2.05 which is awesome! If my blacks don't suffer too much it should keep me happy (and quiet!) for a while. Thanks.



Not quite, 10 degrees outside a 30 degree "cone" will put you 25 degrees off axis which will yield a gain of about .8.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know I had mine first set with the 1/4" upper border and couldn't wait to set it up at the ceiling for the full black border. The screen made a hugh difference for me from the HP with the Dark Chip3. Kids were over watching Sin City last night, I took a couple of looks and the black and contrast on the movie looked incredible.



Well I ended up having to pull the screen all the way down with the h-78....which means I will have to find a much shorter and angled stand for my cc now.


On the bright side....I believe I can still black out the top/bottom sections and make a 2.35 screen....and buy another 106 for 1.85.


The combo of the h-78, Pany s-97(my second set up player) and Gray Wolf is netting a gorgeous picture.....but I have noticed the lumen output is less than an Infocus 4805 with 1400 hours on it.

My only concern with this set up is the thought of having to buy a new bulb after 1000 hours or less to keep things bright enough.

Guess I will be ordering an h-79 bulb for that last 25% ...hey Tom?










The inky CRT looking blacks and the vivid reds and overall eye popping colors and great contrast of this combo is a definite winner imo.


My main dvd player was left on during a storm...and needs its hdmi out fixed as a result....but I can't wait to get it back and get 200 hours on the 78 so I can have it all ISF calibrated.


I can't hardly believe I will be using a 4k pj with a 2k dvd player.....on a 300.00 screen


----------



## cpumechanic

I also spoke to Rebecca in sales and I agree she was very nice and she also included a comment in the order stating "grey only".


Customer Service was unhelpful... first not wanting to talk until an order placed, then not wanting to help ensure correct part shipped after order placed with sales, but...maybe I just got a couple of "grumps" on Friday afternoon.










Have email that unit shipped ....and........ I did all I could do to ensure it was grey.. will see what the UPS gods deliver.


Can anyone confirm that I do not need to open box to confirm contents? I read above that box should clearly state "greywolf" 1.8 gain. If it does not I will refuse shipment.


Willl update on results of my 106" diagonal order when it arrives.


CPU


----------



## bootron

you will be able to deny shipment once it arrives because it is very easy to verify from the box which screen you are receiving. my box said greywolf and i'm pretty sure had a little wolf logo on it, but in any case it is very clearly stated. hopefully you receive the proper screen


----------



## John Kranthos

Thanks for the info guys, very helpful!


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I ended up having to pull the screen all the way down with the h-78....which means I will have to find a much shorter and angled stand for my cc now.
> 
> 
> On the bright side....I believe I can still black out the top/bottom sections and make a 2.35 screen....and buy another 106 for 1.85.
> 
> 
> The combo of the h-78, Pany s-97(my second set up player) and Gray Wolf is netting a gorgeous picture.....but I have noticed the lumen output is less than an Infocus 4805 with 1400 hours on it.
> 
> My only concern with this set up is the thought of having to buy a new bulb after 1000 hours or less to keep things bright enough.
> 
> Guess I will be ordering an h-79 bulb for that last 25% ...hey Tom?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inky CRT looking blacks and the vivid reds and overall eye popping colors and great contrast of this combo is a definite winner imo.
> 
> 
> My main dvd player was left on during a storm...and needs its hdmi out fixed as a result....but I can't wait to get it back and get 200 hours on the 78 so I can have it all ISF calibrated.
> 
> 
> I can't hardly believe I will be using a 4k pj with a 2k dvd player.....on a 300.00 screen



Nice combo, very strong reds indeed. When I use my HT1000 I see the pale reds of the old boy. The H78 is similar to the reds of the Seleco Brand very deep dark reds, that don't go to crimson on the H78.

enjoy


----------



## Ken00b

I finally got my GW and 4805. The GW box looked OK, but I had one dent/ripple near the middle of the case - I'm now an official member of the GW owners club! What's really killing me is that I won't be able to set this up for another week.


My setup will put the lens 90-96" off the floor and 13' back. Seating will be standard-ish height (43") and 13' back. I think I'm very near "the cone" and hoping near enough. I'll report back hopefully in a week









Ken


----------



## Itsdon

Ken00b, my setup was closer to the cone than yours and I had a pretty bad experience. My lens was 88" up and my seating height was the same as yours. I had a major dropoff in brightness and ended up selling the screen. My PJ is a Sharp DT-300 and it's possible your 4805 is brighter than mine and that'll help. Good luck!


----------



## steinre1

I finally broke down and picked up a 106" greywolf yesterday at Best Buy. I know I can get it cheaper online, but I thought the hassle of having to make a return outweighed it. They showed 2 in stock, but they had trouble finding them. He finally came out with an open box screen. My first thought was "There is no way I'm taking someone else's screen that had to be returned." I started babbling about the dents in the case and the line from the plastic screen. I think they thought I was crazy. The salesman assured me that he remembers the person who bought this screen and it was only brought back because the size did not work for his room. We broke open the tape on the box and sure enough, the screen appeared to be still in the plastic bag inside the box and did not look like it had ever been opened. There was no hardware, however. Not that I can't use my own 2 screws, but did this thing come with hardware brand new? Anyways, I inspected the case, and I couldn't feel any dents, so I thought what the hell, I've got 30 days to take it back.


I got it home and when i took off the plastic bag, I did notice a dent (crease) about a 1/3 of the way down on the bottem of the case. When my friend and I pulled down the screen, the plastic layer just peeled itself off and fell to the floor. I could see no line whatsoever. I know that some people say they can't see the line until the projector shines on it, but I'm feeling pretty good since most people who's plastic fell right off don't seem to have the issue. Only time will tell...


I'm thinking of keeping the screen even with the dent (crease). I'm not sure how to take it out even if I wanted to. I did take some needlenose pliers (with a t-shirt in between), but it didn't seem to do much. I have a feeling I would do more harm the good.


I will be mounting a panny ae700 about 85" from the floor with a 12' throw. Seating will be 12' and 17' back. I didn't plan to add a filter to the projector anyways (like many people do), so perhaps the dark screen and being slightly outside the cone will be just right for me (fingers crossed). My main goal is to have a watchable screen for viewing with some ambient light. I'll have everything set up in about a week, and will report back with my results as it seems there are a lot of people on the fence about this screen with the same general setup as mine.


----------



## albo75

Read through this thread yesterday and picked up a 106" from BestBuy this evening. Projector is a ceiling mounted H31, but I wanted to see for myself what others were describing.


The unit looked brand new and unopened, but had a large dent at the front of the casing when I took off the plastic wrap. The paint around the dent had cracked and was peeling off. No install hardware.


I took down my homemade frame, hung with the free Elite 100" screen I received with my projector, and screwed in a couple of large wood screws to hang the new screen. Simple to install, though hardware on the screen is similar to the cheap hardware of the Elite screen.

Pulling down the screen for the first time revealed the plastic covering a small part of the top of the screen. Peeling it off left no mark on the grey area, but noticeable residue marks in the black area. These marks could only be seen in a well lit room.


After a short viewing test I saw what the these folks meant, regarding ceiling mount vs. table mount. When standing up to view the image, contrast was excellent and whites were white. Sitting down however was a whole other story. Whites became murky greys, and the contrast was dull, a world of difference.

Do not get this screen for a ceiling mounted projector as it doesn't do it justice.


The texture of the screen was not visible to my eye. Waves were non-existent, even though they were on the screen when viewing in normal light. No shimmer. I couldn't tell a difference in lumens between the two screens when placed side by side. Better contrast was instantly seen on the Greywolf, while the Elite appeared washed out.


I took the screen down, carefully packed it up, and will be making a trip back to BestBuy tomorrow.


I'm still on the lookout for a high quality pull-down or motorized screen the replace the Elite, so if anyone has suggestions for something I could get for under $300, preferably waveless and of high build quality, I'd very much appreciate it.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *albo75* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After a short viewing test I saw what the these folks meant, regarding ceiling mount vs. table mount. When standing up to view the image, contrast was excellent and whites were white. Sitting down however was a whole other story. Whites became murky greys, and the contrast was dull, a world of difference.
> 
> Do not get this screen for a ceiling mounted projector as it doesn't do it justice.
> 
> 
> I'm still on the lookout for a high quality pull-down or motorized screen the replace the Elite, so if anyone has suggestions for something I could get for under $300, preferably waveless and of high build quality, I'd very much appreciate it.



Now you've scared me. I have a bad feeling I will have the same experience as you once I hang mine up. How high is your projector mounted? Another alternative for you would be the da-lite high power pulldown. Give Jason from AVS a call - shouldn't be more than about $230 plus shipping for a 106". Of course it can get more pricey if you add options or different models. I think this will work better for you since the gain on the HP is documented to be about 3.0. For a typcail ceiling mount you'll end up with a gain of about 1-1.5 seated and without the grey coloring, the whites will stand up better. The only thing you will be losing is contrast. But to the eye, you may not notice the difference in contrast that much since colors will be brighter. The HP is definately Plan B for me if the graywolf is unacceptable. Also, the HP will have some waves, but due to its retroflective properties everyone says that they are practically invisible when viewing.


----------



## albo75




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How high is your projector mounted?
> 
> 
> Another alternative for you would be the da-lite high power pulldown. Give Jason from AVS a call - shouldn't be more than about $230 plus shipping for a 106". Also, the HP will have some waves, but due to its retroflective properties everyone says that they are practically invisible when viewing.



My projector is 7 1/2 feet from floor to lens. It seemed to me that with any distance below the lens, the picture became more and more murky. It was like looking at a rear projection CRT televison set. Any movement away from the sweet spot and you're looking at a lousy picture.


Thank you for the screen information. I'll call Jason and see what he suggests.


----------



## shanemcr

Ordered my GW yesterday. My projector will be about 78", so fingers crossed. If it's really terrible, I have an option to place the projector just above head height (on a cabinet that's just the right height), though then it won't be nearly as convenient as a ceiling mount and I'll have to deal with cat shadows from time to time as they like to walk on the back of the sofa.


----------



## Nomad_33FW_58FS

Is the 84" 4:3 matte white screen retro-reflective also? Thinking about taking my 106" GW back for one of those. Table mounting my PJ just wont work for me.


----------



## guitarman

Table mouting isn't a must for the graywolf. You don't have to have 1.8 gain. What we're getting here with any anverage lumens projector is a more 3D image with better blacks and colors, plus better light rejection.


If you have a projector with decent lumens or nice bright bulb ceiling mounted you'll get an image closer the the 12 foot lumens that were looking for.Many people are putting ND filters on their projectors to get the proper brightness level.


For me it's a tad too bright with the H79 which is 585 lumens, not bad much better than the high power screen I have. With the HT1000 I have which is a mere 300 lumens it helps that pojeector because for me it's still bright enough but it's helped the colors look deeper and contrast gets more 3D.


If someone wants a plasma type screen the Silverstar 6.0 gain is out there. Or a high power or graywolf with e table mounted projector would get you closer.


----------



## Ken00b

Well, I've got some feedback because I just couldn't let that stuff sit around for a week. I figured since everyone recommended airing the GW out for a while, I'd temporarily setup the pj in the (unfinished) basement while the screen hangs. I had a bit of natural ambient light ( garden level basement w/o window covering in the afternoon), set the pj in a tablemount fashion and played a few movies. Colors, contrast and picture were very nice @ 92" screen size from ~12' away. Ambient caused a bit of washout, but nothing terrible. I moved up and down and around the room and I couldn't find a noticeable cone at all. Maybe it has a lot to do with personal preference/perception. Real test will be in a week when I get it ceiling mounted....


----------



## Jefftaz

I have been thinking about this screen, however now the reviews seem very much split down the middle. Some say it will perform great with a ceiling mounted projector and others are sending them back. It must come down to personal preference. I think I will give it a shot here soon. I have been waiting for it to start getting darker sooner as I have my step up in my living room and have no light control to speak of. As soon as the middle of October hits I will order a Greywolf and post my opinion and screen shots. I will be using a ceiling mounted H31 and a 92 inch grey wolf, throw distance is 12 feet.


----------



## flyNAVY

Every time I feel confident enough to give this screen a try, I read this thread and get confused again by people saying it's no good for ceiling mounted projectors...only to be encouraged again by Guitarman's detailed posts in favor of this screen.


Please help me to finally decide whether or not to pull the trigger on this screen. My setup will be a Ceiling mounted Sanyo Z2 (about 13-14' throw) in room with good control on ambient light (though we would like to be able to watch with dimmed lights for the kids), a 106" screen, black rear and front walls and light colored ceiling and upper portion of side walls (this room will also be used for the kids to play in).


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Every time I feel confident enough to give this screen a try, I read this thread and get confused again by people saying it's no good for ceiling mounted projectors...only to be encouraged again by Guitarman's detailed posts in favor of this screen.
> 
> 
> Please help me to finally decide whether or not to pull the trigger on this screen. My setup will be a Ceiling mounted Sanyo Z2 (about 13-14' throw) in room with good control on ambient light (though we would like to be able to watch with dimmed lights for the kids), a 106" screen, black rear and front walls and light colored ceiling and upper portion of side walls (this room will also be used for the kids to play in).



I agree, this particular thread does have it's share of both good and bad. The only way you will really know if it's the right screen for you is if you actually try it. No ones rooms, PJ, light control, wall paint etc. is exactly the same, nor is everyones expectations the same. Just make sure you get it from a place with a good return policy and you should be set.


I'm one of the "it doesn't work well with ceiling mounted units" people and ended up selling mine. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment because I went and ordered a Da-Lite highpower screen to replace it. It is also retro-reflective and everything in Da-Lites brochure says it works best with table mounted units. Other folks here however have said it's good for ceiling mounts sooo.....







The only way I'll really know is if I try it! I should have it this week and will post my comparisons between the two when I can.


----------



## PastorDan

I read through the first dozen pages, but I'm at work, so forgive me for asking a question that may have already been answered.


I got my 92" GW from J&R. It's incredible with my new DV10, but I do see the banding at the top where the plastic sheet was. Can anyone confirm that the banding will fade with time, or do I need to return it?


Also, is it better to roll the screen up when not in use, or to leave it down? Does it not matter? (This is more a general screen question, not specific to GW I guess).


If these have already been answered, and you don't want to repeat it in this thread, I can be emailed at dholmes97 at gmail.com


Thanks!


----------



## clim422

I just hung the 106" Graywolf screen, and I am using the Movietime projector. I purchased them from Shop at Home tv. The screen was free with the purchase of the projector. Unfortunately, it took three weeks for the projector and screen to arrive. Luckily, they both came intact.


After watching a movie on the screen, I tried to retract it, but the screen refuses to go back up. The screen is now almost all the way down. Does anyone have any suggestions to get this screen back up? Thanks.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Clim422 -


It is a bit finicky. If the top case is not held secure the screen doesn't want to roll up. Have someone hold the case in place if it is hanging or not secure. Then try to roll it up without killing it. I can't help anymore than knowing that case likes to be held in place....sorry.


I would reccommend leaving it down if you can as well.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clim422* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just hung the 106" Graywolf screen, and I am using the Movietime projector. I purchased them from Shop at Home tv. The screen was free with the purchase of the projector. Unfortunately, it took three weeks for the projector and screen to arrive. Luckily, they both came intact.
> 
> 
> After watching a movie on the screen, I tried to retract it, but the screen refuses to go back up. The screen is now almost all the way down. Does anyone have any suggestions to get this screen back up? Thanks.




I haven't had any problems retracting my screen, here is the procedure I use.


My screen is ceiling mounted and the screen is extended completely.


I place my hands on the bottom bar about 1 1/2 feet on each side of the center of the bar. I then move the bottom of the screen toward me (about 1 foot from hanging vertical), gently pull down and then push gently upward on the screen as it rises. This works for me 99.5% of the time. I'm 6' tall so I have no problem holding onto the screen and 'helping' it retract for the full retraction.


Randy


----------



## Dave Mack

Wow, I was all set to get this today and then, DUH! I realized we had CATS. CATS with CLAWS! hmmmmm... How easy is it to roll up?








d


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dave Mack* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, I was all set to get this today and then, DUH! I realized we had CATS. CATS with CLAWS! hmmmmm... How easy is it to roll up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> d



Depends on if there is a cat stuck to it







, seriously though, it's a little stiffer than my Da-Lite but all in it's pretty easy. It likes to roll up fast though.


----------



## Dave Mack

Just ordered from PCnation through Rebecca and it couldn't have gone smoother and she couldn't have been friendlier! HIGHLY reccomended!








d


----------



## clim422

Thanks for all the suggestions! I took the screen down and layed it on the floor. I then had my son hold onto the frame while I pulled the screen, and the screen finally retracted. I placed the screen back on the wall, and pulled down again. Once again, the screen refuses to retract. Luckily, the screen is much higher now, and I think I will just leave it as it is. What are the drawbacks with leaving the screen down all the time? My wife will not like it down all the time, but I think I do not have a choice.


My Optoma Movietime projector is my first, and I am having a lot of fun with it so far. My brother helped me with the screen install, and he was impressed with the image quality.


----------



## jkirby

ok- HT FINALLY installed. H78 ceiling mounted - 15" down from 9' ceiling. Greywolf hung about 9" from top. Picture is AWESOME! I honestly couldn't figure out what people were complaining about. So I stood up.. Ok - the picture was a TAD punchier, a TAD brighter - but I am thinking maybe 10% difference? So I changed the H78 from bright off to on and the picture looked as good sitting down as standing up. VERY happy. My room is 100% light controlled, black walls, etc. so maybe that makes the difference?


As far as the screen it self goes - yup- quality is an issue. Dented in the middle( sounds like common problem) and can NOT get it to roll back up - but honestly, I couldn't care less since the room is a dedicated HT. Still, pretty ridiculous for a pull down screen not being able to be pulled back up.


No noticeable lines from the plastic liner either...


$, always, has a lot to do with my satisfaction. If this screen cost me $800 I probably would be saying some not nice things as I was trying to roll up the screen, calling it crap and returning it.. But for $170, I am just letting it stay down and smiling at the picture.


Not sure why so many people are unhappy. The H78 isn't THAT bright of a projector. Note: watched LOTR:ROTK - thought that had enough dark scenes to test this out. Will report if other movies make any difference in my happiness.


The only thing I did notice is that sitting on the sides the picture was a little dimmer - but nothing I would call drastic....


Anyway - sounds like everyone's experience is different - just thought I'd throw mine into the mix!


----------



## mystery

jkirby,


What you need to do is stand on a small ladder or stool so that your head is about level with the projector's lens. Then look at the screen and step down. I guarantee you that you'll see a significant difference in brightness. The reason why you're not seeing what others are seeing is because you have your projector mounted higher than many do and your screen as well. At that height, you've already given up most of the added gain and standing up won't make much of a difference.


The best way to use a screen such as this is to be in the cone. You are not in the cone. It's passing you by for the most part. What you need to do is somehow get your projector and screen as low as you can without speaker and the floor etc...getting in the way. In other words, you need your head to be as close to the line of fire between the lens, the sreen and back to the lens again. I know. I have a retro-reflective High Power screen @ 2.8 gain. My Optoma H57 is mounted at 6" 3" up the wall and my 92" diagonal screen begins at 14" up from the floor. Believe me, I am in the cone big time and the image is very bright. In fact, I have to have an ND2 filter on the lens because the image is just way too bright otherwise.


The best way for you to see all of this yourself is try doing what I said. Putting your head beside the projector and then looking at the screen will give you an idea of what those who table mount this combo are seeing. Then step down and compare what you just saw with what you are seeing sitting down. The difference ought to be night and day.


If you're happy, that's fine. I thought I'd help you understand what can bother people about this type of setup.


Wayne


----------



## kiwishred




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mystery* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What you need to do is somehow get your projector and screen as low as you can...



I understand why it necessary to get the projector close to eye level (and, also, as Darin has pointed out, preferrably close at the same distance as well). But I am wondering if it is really necessary to have the screen low too ?


There may be some other good reasons for doing this (like avoiding neck strain







). But, in general, if a screen is retro-reflective doesn't that mean its reflectivity is largely independent of angle. In other words, if the projector and eye are at equal angles does it matter if both angles are 0 degrees, 20 degrees, 40 degrees or whatever ?


Brent


----------



## mystery

Brent,


I guess it may depend on the offset of your projector. Mine is pretty steep at 37% or thereabouts which means that the lower the H57 is that I own, the lower the screen by necessity must be. If you have a projector with a low offset, then the screen will be higher. I still think that this is where the larger offset projectors are better suited to retro-reflective screens. The triangulation is closer to your line of sight. It might not be too bad of an idea to lower the screen a bit even when using a low offset projector. This would mean keystoning to square the image up but a little of that might help in the long run if lowering the screen could result in a brighter image.


Wayne


----------



## flyNAVY

I pulled the trigger tonight and purchased the 106" from Buy for $150 (special promo). AV Science doesn't sell this screen.


I figured with all the different opinions here, the ONLY way to know for sure was to try it myself. And at that price, what have I got to lose?


I will be using it with a ceiling mounted Z2 and will post results next week.


----------



## therapyjon

I have been patiently waiting for BB to have a promo. Their price on the screen was so much higher than PC and others but I wanted to be able to easily return it if the quality problems others have been talking about turn up. I'm also concerned by the seemingly sudden appearance of screen retraction issues because I don't have a dedicated room and need a now you see it now you don't' setup for a positive spousal satisfaction rating. Thanks, Jonathan


----------



## Earz

Has anyone inquired if BB will price match at all?


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *therapyjon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been patiently waiting for BB to have a promo...I'm also concerned by the seemingly sudden appearance of screen retraction issues because I don't have a dedicated room and need a now you see it now you don't' setup for a positive spousal satisfaction rating. Thanks, Jonathan



I'm with you on the retraction issues. Our HT will be serving two purposes so it better retract with no problems or it's going back.


BB will likley not have a promo. I got it from Buy dot com with 10% off.


----------



## lunchblaze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm with you on the retraction issues. Our HT will be serving two purposes so it better retract with no problems or it's going back.
> 
> 
> BB will likley not have a promo. I got it from Buy dot com with 10% off.




just to weigh in, my 92 is hung from hooks (not firmly fixed) and retracts fine. could be yet another "graywolf variable"


----------



## Ken00b

Forgot to report all my screen variables. 92" from B&H. Does have dent near middle. plastic film needed to be peeled off (didn't just fall off like some 106's in this thread). No visible "line" whatsoever. No visual effects due to screen coating texture. Cone isn't that noticeable (not the 30-40% difference some have reported). Maybe the 92 is less suscept?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkirby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ok- HT FINALLY installed. H78 ceiling mounted - 15" down from 9' ceiling. Greywolf hung about 9" from top. Picture is AWESOME! I honestly couldn't figure out what people were complaining about. So I stood up.. Ok - the picture was a TAD punchier, a TAD brighter - but I am thinking maybe 10% difference? So I changed the H78 from bright off to on and the picture looked as good sitting down as standing up. VERY happy. My room is 100% light controlled, black walls, etc. so maybe that makes the difference?
> 
> 
> As far as the screen it self goes - yup- quality is an issue. Dented in the middle( sounds like common problem) and can NOT get it to roll back up - but honestly, I couldn't care less since the room is a dedicated HT. Still, pretty ridiculous for a pull down screen not being able to be pulled back up.
> 
> 
> No noticeable lines from the plastic liner either...
> 
> 
> $, always, has a lot to do with my satisfaction. If this screen cost me $800 I probably would be saying some not nice things as I was trying to roll up the screen, calling it crap and returning it.. But for $170, I am just letting it stay down and smiling at the picture.
> 
> 
> Not sure why so many people are unhappy. The H78 isn't THAT bright of a projector. Note: watched LOTR:ROTK - thought that had enough dark scenes to test this out. Will report if other movies make any difference in my happiness.
> 
> 
> The only thing I did notice is that sitting on the sides the picture was a little dimmer - but nothing I would call drastic....
> 
> 
> Anyway - sounds like everyone's experience is different - just thought I'd throw mine into the mix!



I feel the same way about it. We have considerably bright projectors the gain drop by ceiling mounting actually helps us. Helps you get much better blacks which makes for deeper coloring. Our PJ's are at an average 600 to 800 tuned lumens.


I tried to sum it up early one that people with bright projectors could benefit from this screen with a ceiling mount. I figured LCD owners could benefit from the gray for blacks and light rejection. For projectors that aren't very bright like the Sharp DT300 they could benefit if they table mounted, tuned lumens close to 300.


The 4805 guys should be in nirvana also at their 685 tuned lumens. The H31 is around 350 lumens in dim mode 500 something in bright, with that projector they should table mount or use bright mode with a ceiling mount.


----------



## bradbissell

So do we know if PCNation sells the 106" version? I called and they said they were white? Just want to make sure they do sell the 106" Greywolf. Alternatively, if I ask them to put a note saying grey on it that optoma will ship out the right screen.


Thanks!

Brad


----------



## jkirby

Mystery. Yes - I see what you are saying. Perhaps a table mount would give me a 1.3 gain vs the .8/.9 gain I am getting now. But bottom line is that I'm happy. Seems more like a firehawk without the hot spot to me....if I wanted a true 1.8 gain, then I would be unhappy. It's all relative. sorry it didn't work out for you.


----------



## mystery

jkirby,


I'm glad you're happy. So many of us on this forum are never satisfied.







Always on to the next best and greatest tweak or item etc...


At least you now know what to do if you decide that you'd like a little brighter image.


I'm actually happy as well. I never did order the Greywolf because I have two screens already, the HCMW and the High Power, the latter of which I favor and currently use. I prefer the bright, punchy image which the combo of my projector and High Power provide.


Anyway, glad it's working out for you. Projectors are fantastic aren't they?


Wayne


----------



## johnbe

Eventually Best Buy will have the 10% off home theater weekend. They do that every once in a while. I did that when I bought my gray wolf. It was 12% if you used your rewards card that weekend plus I all ready had a reward certificate so it made it a pretty good discount. Plus I guess it qualified me for another certificate or two. They seem to have these every other month or so.


----------



## Earz

Found another best buy 40 or so miles away that had 2 Gray Wolfs in stock when I called.

I asked before driving there if they would match internet pricing and they said if there were a local store that had it in stock.


To make a long story short...they sold me a Gray Wolf for B&H's current price.

They said the other pricing discussed here was below there cost.


So I drove there and had the guy bring both GW's out from the back with one being a return with a huge dent in the case and the other being new in box.


He held the screen case and I pulled the screen out and guess what.......there was the light band across the top which two different employees could both see....hmmmmmm.


I just got home a while ago and have not opened the screen I bought....but they said I could return it to any location if theres a light band.


----------



## NoMore

Earz,

Don't be surprised if you see dents on your new screen. Why they don't even use bubble wrap on a 8ft screen is beyond me. As long as you don't get the band you're fine. Hope you like it and good luck.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Earz,
> 
> Don't be surprised if you see dents on your new screen. Why they don't even use bubble wrap on a 8ft screen is beyond me. As long as you don't get the band you're fine. Hope you like it and good luck.



Yes I already have a Gray Wolf with the band that I am going to make into a 2.35 screen which has a small crease that doesn't bother me.....especially since I sprayed all the white with flat black spray paint.


For this kind of money, the dents don't bother me....but the open box had a huge dent caused by either someone in the back room or something of that nature.


Now that dinner is over with....time to go band checking


----------



## BanjoWrangler

Rebecca at PCNation told me today that "They" (referring to their distributor) are shipping white screens and not the GrayWolfs. She did not want to take my order for the GrayWolf because of all the mixups. So I purchased the 106" GrayWolf screen from Visual Apex, where you can find the GrayWolf's by clicking on any Optoma projector and then scrolling down through the Accessories. Nancy at V.Apex was very helpful and stated they have the 92" GrayWolfs in stock for shipping directly fom VA in Washington state, but that the 106" GrayWolf will drop ship directly from Optoma in California. I should have it next week and will post again then.

BW from Oregon

BW


----------



## shanemcr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mine took 6 business days to arrive when ordering from b&h.



Ordered mine Saturday, and UPS says it's on time to arrive Thursday--4 biz days from NY to Seattle. Wonder how many dents it'll get in those four days?


----------



## cpumechanic

Hi everyone.


I pulled the trigger on Friday and ordered the 106 diagonal from PCnation. Rebecca took the order and added a comment that indicated "grey only" .

See my other posts about trying to talk to "customer service" at PCnation. To say the least they were unhelpful in my quest to ensure delivery of the correct (grey) screen.


Screen arrived today (eastern PA) and was perfect as far as I can tell. Box had a small dent, but screen and screen case are perfect. No dents, no "stripe". Box stated "greywolf" and my understanding is that as long as I did not "open" the box.. I could call and refuse to accept it and have it returned at no added cost. (FEDEX brought it).


I may be wrong on the refuse to accept.. but I am happy with the Screen. Infocus 4805 on bottom shelf of coffee table projects a nice image at about 17 feet back and 5 inches off the floor.


The result is so far superior to the "free" screen from Costco, I find it hard to complain. Especially for the delivered price of less than 2e2 .


I also find in funny to read that others talked to "Rebecca" at PCnation and she refused to accept the order. She did the same thing to me on Thursday. But when I called on Friday she was happy to accept the order and add the comment about "grey only". Maybe there are two Rebeccas at PCnation?










I find it hard to believe anyone can beat this screen for the delivered price. But.. of course I am just a projection "rookie".


First movie on OPPO DVD player was nice... (East of Eden).


PCnation did right by me.. but.. I may just be lucky on this one.


Good luck to all.


CPu


----------



## A2D

300 Lm for DT300 and 685 Lm for 4805?

Interesting.

Another thread comparing DT300 and 4805 side by side only shows slight difference in brightness.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=2&pp=30


----------



## Earz

Well my third screen that was new in box from BB also has the light band were the plastic was










Thats two screens from BB were nobody has reported the lighter band until these two....and one drop shipped from Optoma via B&h Photo.


Me thinks every 106" screen has the lighter band....but its just not noticeable in some set ups evidently as I can only notice while in use during lighter scenes and rarely notice it in a darker movie.


It doesn't matter whether the plastic falls off all by itself....or takes a little effort to pull off either....its there either way.


It must be the combination of shelf mounting......a very dark painted room ect that makes it easier to see......that or I am batting 0-3 which would make me.....out or something


----------



## NoMore

Ouch, sorry dude.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cpumechanic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi everyone.
> 
> 
> I pulled the trigger on Friday and ordered the 106 diagonal from PCnation. Rebecca took the order and added a comment that indicated "grey only" .
> 
> See my other posts about trying to talk to "customer service" at PCnation. To say the least they were unhelpful in my quest to ensure delivery of the correct (grey) screen.
> 
> 
> Screen arrived today (eastern PA) and was perfect as far as I can tell. Box had a small dent, but screen and screen case are perfect. No dents, no "stripe". Box stated "greywolf" and my understanding is that as long as I did not "open" the box.. I could call and refuse to accept it and have it returned at no added cost. (FEDEX brought it).
> 
> 
> I may be wrong on the refuse to accept.. but I am happy with the Screen. Infocus 4805 on bottom shelf of coffee table projects a nice image at about 17 feet back and 5 inches off the floor.
> 
> 
> The result is so far superior to the "free" screen from Costco, I find it hard to complain. Especially for the delivered price of less than 2e2 .
> 
> 
> I also find in funny to read that others talked to "Rebecca" at PCnation and she refused to accept the order. She did the same thing to me on Thursday. But when I called on Friday she was happy to accept the order and add the comment about "grey only". Maybe there are two Rebeccas at PCnation?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find it hard to believe anyone can beat this screen for the delivered price. But.. of course I am just a projection "rookie".
> 
> 
> First movie on OPPO DVD player was nice... (East of Eden).
> 
> 
> PCnation did right by me.. but.. I may just be lucky on this one.
> 
> 
> Good luck to all.
> 
> 
> CPu




Do you think Rebbeca can have a gray 106" screen inspected for the plastic band before shipping?


----------



## NoMore

Just a quick question, has anyone tested between 480i and 480p using the Graywolf? I tested the Incredible using 480p and I thought it was a bit clearer than 480i. The color and contrast was a bit punchier and sharper. I also watched some fights scenes in the The Gladiators using 480i and I thought the grainy gray made the movie looked old. I haven't tested The Gladiators using 480p, but I will eventually.


I only have a 480i DVD changer, I used my xbox to play 480p, so I'm wondering if I should get a 480p DVD to take advantage of the screen. I assume all you experts already have a progressive scan player.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just a quick question, has anyone tested between 480i and 480p using the Graywolf? I tested the Incredible using 480p and I thought it was a bit clearer than 480i. The color and contrast was a bit punchier and sharper. I also watched some fights scenes in the The Gladiators using 480i and I thought the grainy gray made the movie looked old. I haven't tested The Gladiators using 480p, but I will eventually.
> 
> 
> I only have a 480i DVD changer, I used my xbox to play 480p, so I'm wondering if I should get a 480p DVD to take advantage of the screen. I assume all you experts already have a progressive scan player.



Use whichever works best for you with your set up.


Imo...the x box is a terrible dvd player....so just about any player would be better at 480p.


If you list a budget I am sure someone can suggest a better player in any price range when your ready to upgrade.


----------



## NoMore

Probably a refurb Onkyo or Denon. Just curious if a 480p player would improve the screen pictures.


----------



## A2D

Received GW 106" from buy.com. Will test it tonight.


I can see three bands if the projector shines a uniform color (e.g. blue or light gray) on the screen. The top band is bright as everyone else sees. Also there is a bottom band which is about as bright as the top band. The center band is slightly darker.

My projector is table mounted (~2"), I can see the three bands while sit down. However, once I stand up, the light drops and these bands are not as noticeable. The light bands does not bother me at normal viewing conditions. I can see it occasionally just like rainbows


Brightness: GW seems about equal or slightly better than BO in the cone. Not sure about the 1.8 Gain.


Sharpness: GW appears sharper than BO due to better contrast


Overall: Image on GW appears very solid and focused. This probably due to the better contrast.


Here is a screenshot:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...16256/size/big 

Top: Graywolf

Bottom: BO


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Probably a refurb Onkyo or Denon. Just curious if a 480p player would improve the screen pictures.



Over the Xbox....it is certain.....but some 480p players are better than others.....for even more improvement over the Xbox.


There is only one Onkyo worth owning and its the SP1000 which has no refurbs...and is very rarely found used....for good reason.


From my experience....there are probably lots of re-refurbed Denon's....but if your looking at spending ...say 300.00 or less...then I would reccomend a Pany s97 over a Denon.


----------



## cpumechanic

Hi


I called PCnation today and asked if Rebecca could personally inspect each screen.

She said no.. but maybe customerservice could help.


Just kidding.











Still happy with the screen, now if my boss would take 2 valium and call me in the morning.


CPU


----------



## jonnyozero3

Just to add to the confusion - I've had two 106" GW's. The first (from BB) had no band at the top at all, no matter how closely I looked. The plastic also fell off when I first opened it.


The second screen from PCnation has a very light band at the top, but not bad enough to return for the price I paid. The plastic was stuck on very tightly.


Like I said, not bad enough to return, but Optoma/Panoview need to do some QC on these.


----------



## trbizwiz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Over the Xbox....it is certain.....but some 480p players are better than others.....for even more improvement over the Xbox.
> 
> 
> There is only one Onkyo worth owning and its the SP1000 which has no refurbs...and is very rarely found used....for good reason.
> 
> 
> From my experience....there are probably lots of re-refurbed Denon's....but if your looking at spending ...say 300.00 or less...then I would reccomend a Pany s97 over a Denon.



i hear the oppo is pretty sweet or $199, it is supposed to compare to the very high end dennon


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *trbizwiz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i hear the oppo is pretty sweet or $199, it is supposed to compare to the very high end dennon



Thats another alternative if your budget is only 200.00 for sure.


Although the highest rated players are not equaled by these 2-300 dollar wonders.... they probably aren't the bargain either overall....unless you want that last 10% for video and are into a better than average audio set up.


But don't kid yourself....The Denon 3910,Onkyo SP1000 both offer a superior picture to these high rated cheaper players....and I imagine by all accounts....the 5910 is slightly better than these two....at least for video.


The reason I bought the Onkyo....is in direct comparison...I slightly preferred the player for video over my 3910 and previous 5900....and highly preferred it for audio as well as a the much superior build.


However....if I did not have the money at the time....I probably would have bought an Oppo if they were released yet....or the S97....and called it a day.



Back on topic.....even though I have the plastic band....as I like to call it...it looks like I am going to keep one Gray Wolf....and wait until a later date to purchase a second one without the banding.


It seems from reading all I could on this screen that one person said it was some what close to a Gray Hawk for picture quality....not build in the display section.


I would have a hard time spending a lot of money on a screen....because who knows how it will work with the next pj down the road.....and used screens are hard to sell...imo.


I guess I will just be patient on the plastic band issue...because the screen itself is a major bargain imo.


----------



## NoMore

I'm trying to get the best pic possible on the Graywolf. I just looked at the OPPO & S97, both will only upconvert if output via DVI. My Panny receiver takes component, s-video, RCA, so am I out of luck with these upscaling DVD players? Right now I have component connection from my receiver to 4805.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get the best pic possible on the Graywolf. I just looked at the OPPO & S97, both will only upconvert if output via DVI. My Panny receiver takes component, s-video, RCA, so am I out of luck with these upscaling DVD players? Right now I have component connection from my receiver to 4805.



This issue definitely belongs in another forum so in that vein I'll be brief. Look at the Samsung HD941. It can be had very inexpensively, has HDMI, Faroudja DCDi and will upconvert over component. All the negative reviews you'll find were before the latest firmware which fixed everything. Very nice player and a bargain to boot.


OK, just stay on subject, sorta, anyone in the Bay Area who is recieving banged up Gray Wolf screens and/or are having banding problems, you can get an absolutley perfect one by driving to their headquarters in San Jose and exchanging it. The one I got from PCNation was manhandled by Fedex before it got to me. I simply called Optoma HQ and asked for a replacement. They did it no questions asked. While you're there check out their media room - the H97 one the massive Da-Lite screen is a site to behold.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm trying to get the best pic possible on the Graywolf. I just looked at the OPPO & S97, both will only upconvert if output via DVI. My Panny receiver takes component, s-video, RCA, so am I out of luck with these upscaling DVD players? Right now I have component connection from my receiver to 4805.




Check your P.M.


----------



## NathanGU

Well I took delivery of a 106" Greywolf screen a couple days ago. Took about 45 minutes to position and mount it on the wall where I'd previously been projecting everything.


The difference is INCREDIBLE. I can turn on both bright overhead lamps in the room and still be able to see the projected image perfectly well, with just the blacks becoming effectively the dark grey color of the screen. The ability of the screen to reject ambient light is very good. My theater area is no longer completely lit up by the projector being on, and when someone turns on a light in the hallway or the ajoining kitchen it has little impact on the image.


I'm using a Panasonic L300U projector ceiling mounted (well it hangs down from the ceiling quite a bit) so that the final height from the floor is about 6ft, and the height above the seating position is roughly 3ft. I sit about 10ft from the screen and can't see the screen texture at all while playing movies.


There is an increase in brightness when I stand right at the projector, but everything looks outstanding from the seating position, which is also the point from which I calibrated the projector to the screen.


This screen has given me better focus, more detail, an ability to watch in a pretty well lit area (Gonzaga basketball parties won't be an issue at all), and have massively improved contrast details compared to my matte white wall, and is an improvement over sections for testing that I have for Da Lite HCCV and MWCV.


In an incredible surprise I also got my Denon DVD3800 back from repair and recalibrated everything last night, threw in 5th Element : Superbit, Sin City, and Monster's Inc.


All I can say is HOLY CRAP. This setup is so much more impressive than the 64" Pioneer Elite 730HD television I had before, even after having it ISF calibrated too... and the whole shebang has cost me 1/5th as much money.


-Nathan


----------



## guitarman

Sounds great, good match up Pany AE300 and a very gray screen.


----------



## MikeSRC

Hmmm, I guess I'll have to pick up one of these to try.


Tom, any word on when a fixed version will be available?


----------



## guitarman

Nope nothing new on that yet. Mike the first thing you'll notice is how dark gray the color is. I've never seen anything like it. Since the Tosh is pretty bright you'll notice a very nice difference in blacks and colors. The materials very thick and hangs pretty flat, not that you'll notice any waves with video if you tried.


The + list

1. Dirt cheap

2. Rejects ambient light

3. Retro reflect = no waves w/video on non-tensioned.

4. Black levels are darker

5. Colors get stronger/deeper

6. Gain is added with table mounts


With the H79 I needed the gain drop with a ceiling mount, you probably will also.


----------



## nonstatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HI all,
> 
> I have been following this thread with much interest thanks for all that posted reviews and screenshots. I have an Hitachi Home -1 and would like something to help the blacks. I have the "all white walls" and even though it looks good I am maybe looking on investing in a screen. It will have to be put up when not in use as there is a door way. Will it survive that?
> 
> My projectors sits just under eye level between two recliners so it sounds like I should be right at the right height for this screen yes?.
> 
> I have a fairly dark room using blackout cloth on the windows but do have some ambient light in the daytime.
> 
> The image I project is less than 70" diag.
> 
> Here are the specs on my projector..
> 
> ● Three 16:9 LCD Panels
> 
> ● 854x480
> 
> ● 700 ANSI Lumens
> 
> ● 800:1 Contrast Ratio
> 
> When in whisper mode the light output is more like 285 lumens.
> 
> 
> Would this work better than gettng a High Power 1.8 gain Da-lite?
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the posts!!
> 
> 
> P.O.




i'm actually in the exact same situation with the same projector, only mine is mounted just above me on a shelf upside down. would i still benefit from this screen at all? i'd like to be able to view the image with a little more ambient light. i have blackout curtain liner for daytime but even then the image is too washed out for me. i'm currently just projecting on a textured white wall.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nope nothing new on that yet. Mike the first thing you'll notice is how dark gray the color is. I've never seen anything like it. Since the Tosh is pretty bright you'll notice a very nice difference in blacks and colors. The materials very thick and hangs pretty flat, not that you'll notice any waves with video if you tried.



Thanks Tom. I just ordered one from my distributor. If they get it out today, I'll have it tomorrow (Saturday at the latest) since they're right up the road from me. I'll let you know what I think.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nonstatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> i'm actually in the exact same situation with the same projector, only mine is mounted just above me on a shelf upside down. would i still benefit from this screen at all? i'd like to be able to view the image with a little more ambient light. i have blackout curtain liner for daytime but even then the image is too washed out for me. i'm currently just projecting on a textured white wall.



Yeah you'll pick up some gain plus the other goodies.


Mike,

I'm sure you'll let us know.







Everybody likes a more 3D image, pop on the Incredibles for color.


----------



## jkirby

fyi - found out the problem with my H78 (will post there too).. the screen is not 100% rectangular! one side is 52" long and the other side is 51.75" long. not going to send it back for .25" but sheesh - Optima really needs to look at their QC.


----------



## Earz

I finally got around to calibrating my H-78 and Onkyo SP1000.....and I got to tell you the picture is soooooo great that I hardly notice the band at the top....I am too busy drooling at the gorgeous picture on the Gray Wolf.


You would have to see the end result to believe it....but this was my face during the 25th(guess) viewing of The Fifth Element


----------



## shanemcr

Well, I got my GW on time from B&H via UPS. Unfortunately, it's bent. Not just dented, but actually bent about 1/3 of the way in from the left. The packaging looked okay until I opened it and saw that the styrofoam "pad" (being generous) at the left end had basically exploded from some kind of impact. So this one's going back and I guess I'm headed to BB to pay MSRP but pick out a nice straight one.


Frankly I think this packaging is ridiculous. It's clear that UPS is no way to send these.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shanemcr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Frankly I think this packaging is ridiculous. It's clear that UPS is no way to send these.



I wanted to continue doing some testing for a little while without having to be without the GW even though the last one I got from BH and UPS was damaged. I just kind of gave up and decided to order one from Buy.com before sending the damaged one back. The one from Buy.com was shipped with FedEx and came with no damage to the box or screen yesterday. Now I'll send the damaged one back and hope they can get it right the 3rd time. Once I get one that is the correct screen without problems I will probably pass it on to a friend or somebody else locally, but at least I have one good 92" wide one now.


--Darin


----------



## Miles

Those who are using this screen w/ a ceiling-mounted 4805, have you decided to move away from bulb's econo-mode to couter-act the darkening of the picture? I'm currently using the 4805 ceiling mounted on a matte-white Draper pull-down and I'm interested in using this screen as I could benefit from the increased contrast and minimized screen waves.


----------



## flyNAVY

Just received my GrayWolf 106" from Buy.com yesterday. Perfect condition. Shipped via FedEx. Received an arcade (Quasimoto) few weeks back via UPS. Result: Five of the six boxes were damaged and now I am probably going to get less in reimbursement than what the contents are worth.


Beware if the company you ordered your screen from is using UPS. My Dad is retired UPS and he would tell me of how he observed the boxes being "placed" on the truck.


----------



## NoMore




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Miles* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those who are using this screen w/ a ceiling-mounted 4805, have you decided to move away from bulb's econo-mode to couter-act the darkening of the picture? I'm currently using the 4805 ceiling mounted on a matte-white Draper pull-down and I'm interested in using this screen as I could benefit from the increased contrast and minimized screen waves.



I tried. I sit 13ft from the screen and the ceiling mount 4805 is above my head. The fan noise in non-econo-mode is crazy loud, but the picture does get the additional boost in brightness. If you can stand the loud fan noise I think you should give it a try. BTW, I don't get any waves nor SDE in econo-mode.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally got around to calibrating my H-78 and Onkyo SP1000.....and I got to tell you the picture is soooooo great that I hardly notice the band at the top....I am too busy drooling at the gorgeous picture on the Gray Wolf.
> 
> 
> You would have to see the end result to believe it....but this was my face during the 25th(guess) viewing of The Fifth Element



Man there's a ton of members with the Optoma 79/78. Wonder how that happened?









enjoy


----------



## trbizwiz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man there's a ton of members with the Optoma 79/78. Wonder how that happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enjoy



HMMMM i wonder too, but thanks for the tip, this thing is sweet!


----------



## Ken00b




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NoMore* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried. I sit 13ft from the screen and the ceiling mount 4805 is above my head. The fan noise in non-econo-mode is crazy loud, but the picture does get the additional boost in brightness. If you can stand the loud fan noise I think you should give it a try. BTW, I don't get any waves nor SDE in econo-mode.



I'd have to agree on the fan noise, but eco-mode is plenty bright for me anyway. I'm 13' from the screen as well and the pj is 8'+ up. Don't know what I'm doing right (well, I _did_ get the GW







), but couldn't be happier with the picture


----------



## Ximori

I must be one the few here who prefers to view this screen just a tad off or slightly away from the viewing cone. With pj table mounted, I stood up and walked back beyond 2x the screen width viewing distance and saw a nice overall uniformity in the image.


----------



## shanemcr

Well, I unrolled the bent GW just enough to compare it (not enough to release the plastic bit) and I'm afraid it just doesn't work for us. Both of us really noticed the texture or the sparklies or something--the picture on the screen was just a lot grainier than on my matt white, er, "screen" (okay, sheet). The blacks were nice and deep but the graininess was just not on for us (it especially bothered Stephanie).


Guess I'll be spending a bit more money. :-(


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man there's a ton of members with the Optoma 79/78. Wonder how that happened?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enjoy



I am not sure how that happened....but I was half expecting a fine cigar to be included in the H-78 box or something


----------



## A2D

Well, I must be in the minority that prefer matte white to Graywolf.

I was initially impressed by the higher contrast and darker blacks. Then I realized that it comes at the expenses of shadow details and a slight shift of color in darker scenes. The skin tone becomes slightly unnatural to me at darker scenes.


----------



## mystery




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not sure how that happened....but I was half expecting a fine cigar to be included in the H-78 box or something



That's funny.










Hey Tom, it's a good thing you aren't in the birth control business!










Wayne


----------



## jkirby

btw - I tilted my H78 a tad and used some minor keystoning to see if it would make a difference. It did - definitely punchier and brighter.. Now can take H78 off of high bright mode.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am not sure how that happened....but I was half expecting a fine cigar to be included in the H-78 box or something




Good idea I should add a cigar on the return of all the PJ's I'll be tuning soon.


Colors look different?

Ofcourse you'll have to re-tune to the graywolf from mat white. Colors look extremely natural on my setup. Use your graysteps patterns and clean up the gray. I use colorfacts but you can do it by eye.


----------



## A2D

I am no expert on this issue. From my amateur eye, bright seems brighter and dark seems darker on Graywolf compared to matte white. Therefore, the contrast ratio is enhanced and shows more punch especially for brighter pictures. For darker pictures, I prefer matte white since it show slightly brighter and more details

There seems a light level somewhere in between black and white. Above that level, the light is enhanced; below it, the light is reduced. Therefore, the Graywolf represent a nonlinear display device compared to matte white. I might be wrong on this; however, I have a hard time to think that both screens are linear at the same time.


----------



## johnbe

I experienced just the opposite. From matte to gray wolf. I just eyed mine in to where I liked it. Seems natural to me. One day I will pull out my setup disc and do a true optimization. But like everything else, you go with what you like. I was happy with my diy matte white screen (using 1.0 gain screen material) and only got this because it was cheap to try and I knew I could take it back. My plan was to get another screen when my theater remodeling was thru but now I am putting my money on different upgrades instead. It seems this screen is really projector dependant and how everything is mounted. Some complain about ceiling mounting and yet I experience none of that. But mine is more than likely because it is not as high up on the ceiling as theirs. Sometimes makes it hard to decide what you want when your time and funds are short.


----------



## Ken00b

I finally got my gear installed and WOW







. Just to recap I've got a 92" GW and 4805 in eco mode. PJ is 13' back and ceiling mounted at 90". Main seating is 13' back (directly under pj). I've watched movies with ambient light and full dark (Incredibles, last night) and I couldn't be happier. I do have a viewing cone, but there's _maybe_ a 10% drop outside of the cone.


After all the discussion in this thread I'm thinking there are only 3 explanations for the people who see a noticeable cone: 1)personal preference 2)pj brightness and 3)maybe the GW's have QC issues on the screen coating itself?


I'll take some shots and send the link later today...


Ken


----------



## Jack Gilvey

Ken, thanks for the observations. I think most 4805-ers are ceiling mounting, and that's what I want to hear the GW working well in. I'm going to be installing a 4805 for my brother in his basement, and he really needs a pull-down. It'll be darkened (most viewing at night), but certainly not light-controlled. I'm think the GW would work well with the pj ceiling mount to bring the brightness down w/o using the ND2 filter I'm using now.

Went to the local BB today, was told they don't carry any pull-down screens. This was while standing next to their row of projectors. I guess they sell walls.


----------



## steinre1

I installed my graywolf a couple of days ago. I am using a panasonic ae700 ceiling mounted about 7.5 feet off of the ground. Here are my initial impressions. I plan to do a comparison of the graywolf and the da-lite high power sample I have soon, but that will have to wait a little while as I have 2 fantasy football drafts in the next 2 days. Also, keep in mind that my projector has not been calibrated at all:


The case was slightly dented, but only on the bottom and you don't really notice it once the screen in hung. I have no line where the plastic was (plastic fell right off). I have a little trouble getting the screen to retract - usually takes me about 10 times. I have the screen ceiling mounted from hooks. I'm not quite sure if my retraction problems are manufacturer related or user error. I'll see if I get the hang of it in the future. Now for the good stuff...the picture looks very good to me. Granted, the only thing I have to compare it to is the beige wall that is behind it. It looks great in a dark room (frankly, are there any screens that don't?) and the ambient light rejection seems very good. I can have recessed lights on to the right of the screen or light streaming in from non-darkening blinds about 15 feet off to the side and the picture is still very watchable. Faded? Sure. But still very watchable. The cone is not very noticeable. If I put my head next to the projector is does get brighter, but the difference between sitting or standing is not very noticeable - almost like sitting or standing in front of a rear projection CRT TV (the newer models, not the old school ones). Off axis viewing doesn't really change that much (most likely because I'm already outside the cone). I do have some v- shaped waves. watching straight on, they are not very noticeable, but I think I may have seen something on some quick panning shots. Viewing from an extreme angle, they become very noticable - I was watching a HD football game, and the line markings looked all funky (not straight) where the waves were.


All in all, I am pleasantly surprised. I did not anticipate liking this screen as much as I do. Maybe when I do the high power comparison I will change my mind, but that thread is for a later day. My main concern was the ambient light issue. I think it is really difficult to glean that type of information from these threads, because it really comes down to what an acceptable picture is to you - maybe I'm just not that picky. I'm hoping to use this or the HP for a couple years until the black screens come way down in price (I'm not a big early adopter kinda guy)


- Rob


----------



## Itsdon

Rob, I look forward to your comparison of the GW & HP. I just went from one to the other (with the HCMW in between) and I think I found a keeper in the HP. Here's a 'Readers Digest' version of my situation.


For a year I was perfectly happy with my X1 projecting onto my HCMW screen. When the upgrade bug hit (and it always does!) I swapped the X1 for a short throw Sharp DT-300. I mounted the Sharp 9' back of the screen (83" high) whereas the X1 was 15' back. For some reason the combo of the DT-300 and the HCMW produced a moire image on the screen, very faint but totally noticeable in light scenes, the X1 never did. I tried every setting and option to get rid of them but could not. I then decided to get a new screen and low and behold the Gray Wolf had just come out, perfect! Upon hanging the GW and projecting my first image I was in love - the Grey Wolf was spectacular. Inky black, vibrant color and NO moire! Life was good - then I sat down and my world crumbled. The picture faded to black.


I again tried everything I could think of but nothing, short of standing up was going to bring me an acceptable picture - I was out of the cone. The difference between me and 4805 (or other long throw PJ) owners is that my PJ is mounted 6' in front of me and that is the source of the light to which the screen will reflect back to. I expect that had my PJ been mounted above my head I would be writing a different message here - live and learn! So, now I have 2 screens and neither work. I went back to work on the HCMW. I contacted Da-Lite and they swear that getting a moire pattern is impossible on a non-perforated screen - I beg to differ. I sent them screen shots to which they passed around amongst themselves and their response came back that my PJ must be throwing artifacts out, BS guys. A moire pattern on a non-perforated screen does happen and I gave them proof. Even after telling them that there were no such pattern lines on the Gray Wolf they still stood on their high horse, whatever guys.


So my research continued. I sold the GW and put the HCMW back up. If the moire pattern wasn't present I would keep that screen - the picture was just great. Keeping within my budget I decided to try the High Power. I spoke with Jason (AVSFORUM) and after explaining my situation (wants & needs) we decided that the HP would be the best choice, even though it's still retro-reflective we determined that at it's worst I should still be at a 1.0 gain or better. Many folks here helped out as well with some calculations, thanks.


The HP arrived on-time and flawlessly packaged (are you listening Optoma?), a perfect, dent free unit. I ordered it with a 10" blackdrop on top to go with the standard 2" masking. Upon putting the screen I immediately was impressed with the smooth operation of the mechanism (B) and the impressively silky texture of the screen material. I had the windows open, the skylight beaming and the screen shimmered - like it was plugged in! Then I waited for darkfall.


The first movie I played was "A Lot Like Love" and there is a line in that movie that goes "if it wasn't love, it was a lot like it" and that's how I felt about the HP. I definitely sit outside the cone but the picture was so much better than I expected. No hotspotting at all and moving around the room produced nothing a but a pleasing picture, even at extreme angles. Just for fun I stood up on the couch to bring my eyes level with the PJ and the picture was blindingly bright, to the point where I would most certainly have to tone down the Sharp if that was my normal seating position, but sitting back down brought the picture back to it's beautiful self. The blacks aren't as black as they were with the HCMW but they aren't bad either. The colors however came alive and virtually leapt off the screen. Moire pattern became a distant memory.


I spent some time calibrating and now feel I have the best possible picture I can get out of the budget equipment I own. The cone on the HP is probably about the same as the Gray Wolf but the 2.8 gain and punch of the white material (vs. gray and 1.8 gain) more than made up for it. I now feel that the High Power is delivering a picture outside of the cone that would be equivalent to what the Gray Wolf was delivering while viewing in the cone. The overall quality of this screen far surpasses the quality of the Optoma. Of course it cost twice as much but it 's worth every penny, this is the best screen I've ever used. I'll put the HCMW up for sale tomorrow as I can't see a reason ever to go back to it.


I can't imagine how nice this screen would be if I had a table mounted PJ and sat within the cone. Perhaps a demo of the DV10 is in order! Anyway, I thought I'd pass along my experiences with these three screens in case anyone else has found themselves in this same predicament. Thanks again to all who've helped out and especially Jason at AVS, your service was beyond reproach.


----------



## aravi2

Just in case the following hasn't been mentioned. The Graywolf screens are available at Frys. Bought mine from the Willsonville store in Oregon. Price is high though. I am using it with a 4805 (ceiling mount -- had to drop it down to 7ft from 9ft). Mixed reaction to the screen. There seems to be a large contrast improvement. Sparkles on the screen are annoying and you can see the grain of the screen. Everybody else in the house is in love with it though -- so it stays.


----------



## flyNAVY

Finally had a chance to pull out the screen for the first time. Plastic did not fall off, but it was not attached to the screen at all. It was only attached to the black border so there did not seem to be any lighter area on the acreen. Maybe this is now how Optoma is attaching the plastic. And it smells like a print shop!


Couldn't try using the projector as our wall is not plum so I couldn't mount the screen securely. But everything you read about retracting it is true. This one was truly a pain! It took us about 5-10 minutes to get it fully retracted. Is this a deal breaker? Absolutely not. The screen seems to be a great quality and for $150, you can't go wrong when it is receiving so many positive reviews.


----------



## Lyion

Wish I woulda known they were availiable at fry's in wilsonville.

Just purchased mine from pcnation a few days ago, should be here wednesday.


If it is unfortunately the wrong one I'll probably go pick it up there instead.


Thanks


----------



## guitarman

"Plastic did not fall off, but it was not attached to the screen at all. It was only attached to the black border"


Well how do you like that. The exact suggestion I made to Wing Optoma's Engineer. Told him if they need to use the plastic to protect, have it not enter the viewing area.


----------



## MikeSRC

Mine's being delivered today. This should be interesting, because with the MT700's zero offset, there's not much difference in the distance between the projector and your eye whether it's ceiling (or in my case, rear wall) or table mounted (it's a couple of feet either way). So, the retroreflective nature of the screen shouldn't be much of an issue.


----------



## basement

Mike SRC,


I would be very interested to hear your review with an MT700. I'm using the BENQ 7700, mounted about 6' high (screen same height). I'm currently using a Draper matte white.


My setup is a combination family room/theater basement setup, middle-tone coloured walls, off-white ceiling, maple coloured laminate floors, and a couple of draped windows (75% blockage I would guess).


I'm looking for a versatile screen that's not only good in a darkened environment but also reasonable with some dimmed pot lighting. I also use it for PC applications, TV (HDTV), and games. I understand that my current setup likely already generates ambient light from reflections off of the ceiling and floors.


I generally like a bright image, ala plasma, CRT, or RP. If the lights are on I wouldn't be too picky about the image quality. I was thinking that I could use an ND2 to lower brightness during lights out movie conditions. I would take off the ND2 when I need more brightness such as for casual TV or other viewing.


My other choice would be the Da-Lite high power. Any thoughts on the High power vs the Greywolf would be great as well (thanks Itsdon!)


Regards


----------



## Dave Mack

Mine should be here ANY minute... It's after 4pm. When does FedEx deliver in Berkeley if anyone knows...?








d


----------



## MikeSRC

Well, I got mine (92" model) yesterday and much like others here have experienced, the case was dented. The box looked fine, but the cardboard's not thick enough to withstand denting and the case is vulnerable as a result. The screen itself was in perfect shape though. Plastic fell right off while pulling the screen down and no lines or other visible defects. I'll probably keep it even with the dent, as I would cover the entire case with a wood valance or similar if I mount it to the wall.


First impressions are very good. No waves, nice deep blacks and I don't notice any sparkles unless I get close to the screen. I haven't recalibrated my MT700 yet for the screen, but it does seem to be causing some slight color shift. The increased black level, contrast and brightness over my matte white screen are welcome improvements, but it might also be imparting a slight graininess as well. I'll have to get back to you on that one.


Sin City looked great on the GreyWolf and a short test today with some ambient light in the room (coming from a window to the left side of the screen) confirmed the GreyWolf's ability to present a picture that wasn't anywhere near as washed out as it was with the matte white.


Since I was able to temporaily mount the GreyWolf on top of my matte white screen, I pulled it halfway down so the top half of the image was on the GreyWolf, with the bottom half on the matte white. I have some pictures I'll post in the gallery. They're pretty good for showing the black levels and relative brightness. All in all, a very nice screen, especially for the price.










Here are the links for the gallery pictures:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../16379/cat/508 
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../16380/cat/508 
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot.../16381/cat/508 


The first are the two screens in ambient light. The second is the same shot with the room darkened. The third is the two screen without an image projected.


----------



## guitarman

Graywolf, definitely unique.










Mike was the plastic cut so it doesn't enter the screen area?


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike was the plastic cut so it doesn't enter the screen area?



I'm not really sure. I just pulled the screen down and the plastic just fell out before I even saw where it came from. I don't believe it was any larger than the the black area above the screen. There's no indication of it in the least on the screen.


----------



## braidkid

Hi,

Can someone please tell me if the screen can be partially pulled down or is it all the way down or all the way up?


Also, if someone could please give me the height of the metal casing at the top.


----------



## Itsdon

It can be all the way down, all the way up or several stops in the middle, lot's of options. The case thickness is around 3".


----------



## Dave Mack

Hey guys!


Ok, had some time with the screen which came via FedEx in PERFECT condition! And Tom, the plastic was ONLY attached in the black part! Woo-hoo!

My h57. PQ compared to white wall is now dimmer which makes sense, grey vs. white. There is DEFINITELY a "cone" that the image looks best in. Since I have my PJ currently 12" off the floor. pic. looks great and punchy from my seated position. However, if I stand up picture noticeably dims and washes out. Now I'm sure one could increase brightness/contrast and maybe take off nd2 filter. Dunno. One GREAT thing now is that in bright scenes, the walls and ceiling are not all lit up by reflecting light. Screen easily retracts/pulls down for me which is great due to the kitties.

I will need to do some more viewing to really get into depth. Hopefully tom'w nite. Unfortunately, our new apt. window faces the sunset so until sun is down, even with blinds room is WAY too bright for optimal viewing. During day here, forget about it.

All told I'd say for the $$$ I am very happy. I recommend PCnation. Good service and great price. My fiancee did not notice ANY difference with the screen. But we have only been watching ANGEL which is not exactly reference video. She sees me popping in "5th element SB", "The Incredibles" and my calibration disc over and over and thinks I'm nuts.


But we love them, yes...????


Nite all! More tom'w! shd (screen having Dave)


----------



## flyNAVY

Plastic sheet on mine was the size of the upper black area. It must be there to protect a newly painted screen from getting any of the black onto the grey surface. Maybe they should let it air out longer before rolling it up?


It was attached a couple of inches onto the upper black, and down the left and right sides of the black. No adhesive was used to attach onto the grey area. Screen received in perfect condition last week from Buy.com.


----------



## MikeSRC

Dave Mack, you definitely need to adjust brightness and contrast (with Avia, DVE or THX Optimizer) with the GreyWolf vs. a white screen. It's quite a bit different.


For those considering this screen, your chances of getting a dented case are the same no matter where you buy the screen. There's no way to tell until you open the box and few (if any) of the retailers actually stock the screens. They just ship them direct from a distributor. If I wind up permanently instaling the screen, I'll be covering the case anyway (wife did not like the look of it) and probably painting the bottom piece black.


----------



## KramerTC

A quick comment on the dented cases.


When I bought it at BB they had two in stock. One box was opened and I observed that the case was fine. I took home the unopened box and the case was fine as well. From reading so many reports of screens arriving with dented cases I presume that BB must have shipped those two I saw inside a larger container or something like that. The cardboard of both was pristine.


Optoma could greatly reduce the number of dented cases if they would just slap a sticker "DO NOT BEND" or "MUST LAY FLAT" on the cardboard. Long term the screens need to have more styrofoam bracing inside but this could be a quick fix until they improve the packaging. They have got to be getting many returns due to dented cases.


Or maybe they don't care. I hope this is not the case, pun intended.


----------



## Itsdon

They could take a lesson from Da-Lite. The screen I got had 4 very rigid "L" shaped corner braces put next to the cardbaord corners. The box was then stapped tightly closed. Inside the box the screen was held with 2 styrofoam end caps and 4 styrofoam top/bottom combo pieces. The cardboard itself was thicker than what was used on Optoma's screen. My Gray Wolf was bashed up, my Da-Lite was pristine.


The return costs Optoma must be incurring has to be wiping out any profits they are realizing on this screen.


----------



## TheLongshot

Just got my 106" graywolf yesterday from Buy.com. Box was is pretty good shape. Unpacked the screen, and saw no obvious damage, so I'm happy. I'm pretty convinced that the dimple in the center is there by design. Put it up in the evening and pulled it down. Removed the plastic which was bunching at the top. No line, like others have described. This one was a keeper.


Pulled it part of the way down to compare with my Mississippi Mud painted screen and threw in The 5th Element and Dark City. Results were a little bit of a mixed bag. Definitly blacks were much better with the Graywolf, but skintones seemed to be a different matter. Outside the cone, where I was sitting, skin seems to take on a grayish tone. It was better when I was standing in the cone. Colors didn't have as much punch, but I chalk that up with the gray screen.


Now, I still need to calibrate my H77, so things might change with that. (Doesn't help that I can't find my copy of Avia anywhere right now...)


Jason


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dave Mack, you definitely need to adjust brightness and contrast (with Avia, DVE or THX Optimizer) with the GreyWolf vs. a white screen. It's quite a bit different.



Why do you say that? As an example, let's say that a person has a DLP projector and no lights on in the room. There is a certain brightness setting where the DLP mirrors will be off for video black (16) and on for things a little above that, just as there is a certain contrast setting where there won't be crushing below video reference white (235) or peak white (254). If you raise your brightness setting up higher so that the DLP mirrors are on for video black just because you are using a darker screen then you are getting less on/off CR, just as if you lower your contrast setting because you are using a brighter screen then you are reducing your on/off CR. Are you saying that the pluge bars aren't visible and so you are raising the brightness setting when you go to the Graywolf?


I did some measurements the other day and I believe that the GrayWolf was something like 4%-5% stronger in blue than the High Power, but other than that the colors were about the same. So, there could be some adjustment for that.


--Darin


----------



## Dave Mack

I am going to try the greywolf without the nd filter tonite. I did recalibarte a bit after but it wasn't that drastic.

What sucks is that until 8pm or so, it's kinda pointless in our current situation unless I get a bunch of curtains. Roll on fall!








d


----------



## KramerTC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *A2D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I must be in the minority that prefer matte white to Graywolf.
> 
> I was initially impressed by the higher contrast and darker blacks. Then I realized that it comes at the expenses of shadow details and a slight shift of color in darker scenes. The skin tone becomes slightly unnatural to me at darker scenes.



You and I are. My impressions were very much the same as yours. Nevertheless there's many more reports of very stasfied customers with the GW. It just wasn't for me.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you saying that the pluge bars aren't visible and so you are raising the brightness setting when you go to the Graywolf?



No, you're right. I went back and checked again and there was difference. Someone else (accidently) changed my C and B settings, so when I put up the GW screen they were off. Thanks for mentioning it.



> Quote:
> I did some measurements the other day and I believe that the GrayWolf was something like 4%-5% stronger in blue than the High Power, but other than that the colors were about the same. So, there could be some adjustment for that.
> 
> 
> --Darin



I haven't checked it out with OpticOne yet, but I'm seeing some increase in the reds as well.


----------



## guitarman

Nice job on the pictures Mike colors were looking better to me also.


----------



## SuperGoop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SuperGoop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am getting desperate, but I don't want to break any forum rules. I have been following this thread and want to buy this screen, but I can't find any Canadian reseller. Getting it shipped from the US + duty + cross-border hassles may be too much.
> 
> 
> May I ask where I can buy it in Canada? Thanks.



I found a local retailer in Toronto, but also just noticed the 92" Graywolf is _finally_ available in Canada online here with free shipping.


I hope I didn't break any forum rules. I think there are a lot of Canadians wanting to buy this screen, but it is very hard to find in Canada. Hope this helps.


----------



## guitarman

That Tiger add is confusing. Shows black case which equals mat white. The text talk about mat white also. keep looking


----------



## SuperGoop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That Tiger add is confusing. Shows black case which equals mat white. The text talk about mat white also. keep looking



The Gray Wolf "code" on the Tiger ad appears to be correct. It reads:

_"Gray Wolf *DS9092PM* 92" Manual Cinema Pull Down Screen"_


The code is same as on the Optoma site . It's better to call Tiger first to be sure, but I doubt telephone reps will be very knowledgeble.


I am still hopeful...


----------



## buzz

I called tiger direct near me in the states & they told me their gray wolf screens were of the matte white variety.....no gray. I ordered today from visual apex & they assured me it is the gray screen. I tried pc nation but they couldn't guarantee me it was going to be the correct screen so I spent a little more with visual apex. Cant wait to get it, I have been using a painted piece of masonite for about a year with my 4805. I hope I am close enough to the cone to be ok.



buzz


----------



## MikeSRC

If you scroll up the page on the Optoma website, you'll see that the white screen has the same DS9092PM model number as the GreyWolf. I don't know why they didn't change the model number, but it causes a lot of confusion.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't checked it out with OpticOne yet, but I'm seeing some increase in the reds as well.



I went back to my notes and with the EyeBeamer it seems that I got just a touch less red with the GrayWolf than with the High Power and the blues were 6% higher. Here is what I got for RGB percentages and cd/m2 before calibration with the sensor in one spot and just pulling the High Power down in front of the GrayWolf (probably a couple of inches apart):


GW: 88, 103, 104 ---- 16.2 cd/m2

HP: 90, 103, 98 ---- 36.6 cd/m2


That puts the gain of the GW from there at about 45% of that of the High Power, which is close to what I got before with a Minolta LS110.


--Darin


----------



## braidkid

Well, I got my graywolf today. I bought it from buy.com and was delivered in 3 days. I did receive the graywolf and not a matte white screen!! Absolutely not a ding on the case or anything. Perfect condition and the clear plastic fell off upon pulling the screen down.


I am very happy with my first screen.


----------



## guitarman

Beginners luck I guess.

enjoy


This is an exceptional screen for low dollars.


Darin the more proper gain level is what I needed for the H79. Any bright projectors can benefit with the Graywolf screen, pj ceiling mounted. If you have a lower lumensed projector and can use a table mount you'll be better off also.


I love this cheap solution.







Kudos for this cheap Gray retro reflect.


----------



## kel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *A2D* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, I must be in the minority that prefer matte white to Graywolf.
> 
> I was initially impressed by the higher contrast and darker blacks. Then I realized that it comes at the expenses of shadow details and a slight shift of color in darker scenes. The skin tone becomes slightly unnatural to me at darker scenes.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *KramerTC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You and I are. My impressions were very much the same as yours. Nevertheless there's many more reports of very stasfied customers with the GW. It just wasn't for me.



Add me in there. Though not for shadow details (albeit, the wall is the only comparison I have there), so much as the 'dirty screen' texture.


----------



## A2D

Well, after watching graywolf for a few days, my preference slowly shifted towards GW. Either GW or MW has their advantages. For bright or higher contrast movies, GW has a clear advantage. I know I cheated my eyes by having better contrast and less details, but somehow I started to like to now.

Also I was pleasantly surprised by the 3-D effect at the beginning of the Spiderman which is not as apparent on a white screen.

I still prefer white screen for darker movies like the beginning of the Gladiator.


----------



## Brajesh




> Quote:
> Well, I got my graywolf today. I bought it from buy.com and was delivered in 3 days. I did receive the graywolf and not a matte white screen!! Absolutely not a ding on the case or anything. Perfect condition and the clear plastic fell off upon pulling the screen down.
> 
> 
> I am very happy with my first screen.



Praying I have your luck! I'm excited about having a real screen having tried only DIY options for the last two years of my front PJ life.


----------



## guitarman

I was testing for sparlies and screen texture this morning. I had to go 2' up to the screen to see the glass. Back at 14' where I view I don't see the glass and I couldn't be bothered by the texture when seated texture also, the projector is ceiling mounted. The pluses far out weigh the negatives for me.


----------



## TheLongshot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brajesh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Praying I have your luck! I'm excited about having a real screen having tried only DIY options for the last two years of my front PJ life.



So far, Buy.com looks like it is a good place to order from. My screen came undamaged as well.


As for the texture, it does bother me a little bit. I'll need more time with it...


Jason


----------



## MikeSRC

Buy.com drop ships from the same distributor I bought my (dented) screen from, so it's hit-or-miss buying from them (or anyone else for that matter).


I'd have to add that the viewing cone is much smaller than with my matte white screen. There's a definite drop off in brightness and the screen surface texture starts to appear in the image when you move to the side. Not great for filling the room for a Superbowl party. Sitting anywhere in front of the screen is fine though. At normal viewing distances, I don't have any problems with sparkles or texture issues either.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> . There's a definite drop off in brightness and the screen surface texture starts to appear in the image when you move to the side. Not great for filling the room for a Superbowl party. Sitting anywhere in front of the screen is fine though. At normal viewing distances, I don't have any problems with sparkles or texture issues either.



I disagree on that point - yes you lose brightness as you move to the side, but this screen is ideal for a superbowl party as its performance with ambient light is very good. You can have some lights on and still have a very watchable picture. A Matte white or even HP will be "brighter", but will have SIGNIFICANTLY more washout in that scenario. It think that outweighs the texture people may see from an angle, at least IMO.


----------



## MikeSRC

Good point. I was just thinking of my room, which can be darkened even in the daytime, so the ambient light rejection's not an issue.


----------



## Lyion

Well I have got my graywolf up now. Bought the 106" from Pcnation.

Came with 1 minor dent on the front of the case near the pulldown handle. Considering some peoples luck with dents I'm glad I only have one.

I pulled it out and the plastic was attached to the screen in the top black area but not attached at all to the gray portion. No different shade here.


Now I know what you guys mean about smell, It wasn't too bad after the initial opening but man it was strong. My graywolf also has some of the gray beads in the black outline portion. It looks like some wore off and they should just wipe off if I tried hard enough. They should come off in time.


The image, is incredible. I was going from just a white sheet with my table mounted 4805 with 100h on bulb now. I am actually able to watch a movie without blackout curtains yet in the day(Just finished mounting.) I wouldn't have been able to see more then outlines with the sheet. I think If i turned it up to bright mode instead of econo I could probably watch a darker film right now too. So once I have blackout curtains this thing should be perfect. I was rather surprised at how well it did reject the ambient light from my side window.


It was a little hard to get up after pulling down too far and locking it but a few tries and it moved up. I will probably leave it pulled down most of the time for a few days to get the smell off.


VERY worth the price in my newbie opinion.


----------



## guitarman

4805 and the graywolf have to be a great match.

enjoy


I also like the way it looks flat even when no video is on it. Almost looks like a fixed screen.


----------



## Dave Mack

Well, I tried the screen without my ndh2 filter with the h57 last nite and at first, I was all "ooh! ahhh!" but then the rainbows seemed ALOT more noticeable even after calibrating. So, filter is back on. Damn rainbows...


Anyways, I am VERY happy as this is my first PJ and screen.


dave


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also like the way it looks flat even when no video is on it. Almost looks like a fixed screen.



Funny you say that as I was thinking the same thing when I first opened it up.


Regarding the lack of dents from those ordering from Buy.com, maybe it has something to do with the shipper. Buy.com used FedEX to ship mine. I've read that those receiving from UPS have some type of damage.


----------



## MikeSRC

I use FedEx exclusively after having problems with UPS in the past. Neither one is perfect, but I get better service from FedEx.


The distributor that ships for Buy.com does use FedEx, but Optoma usually uses UPS, so the screens probably go to the distributor via UPS. In my case, the screen shipped from Northern CA to Southern CA (from Optoma to the distributor's main location about 50 miles from me), then to me via FedEx. Box looked perfect, but there was still a crease on the front of the case. It's hit-or-miss until the packaging's improved.


Still haven't decided whether I'll stick with the GreyWolf yet. I'll have more time this weekend to check it out more throughly. Sure is a great value though.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Regarding the lack of dents from those ordering from Buy.com, maybe it has something to do with the shipper. Buy.com used FedEX to ship mine.



I was going to post basically the same thing. Maybe the buy.com and FedEx combination isn't luck. I'm getting ready to send back the second screen I got from when I ordered from B&H Photo over a month ago because it arrived damaged (the first one was wrong). In the meantime I ordered another one from buy.com and got it in less than a week with no problems. I recommended this combo to somebody else and they ordered on Sunday, chose 2 day FedEx and had it on Wednesday (near Seattle).


--Darin


----------



## 4eyes

A couple of questions for anyone familiar with the inner workings of an optoma roll-up screen:


I just received a 92 inch graywolf screen and am trying to make two adjustments to the way it hangs.


First, I would like to mount the screen on the wall, but have the screen itself hang a couple of inches away from the wall (rather than flat against the wall, which is the default). It looks like I could remove the octagonal end caps and rotate them one notch (to the next flat spot on the octagon). That way the screen would come out from the lower front of the case, instead of the lower back. Has anyone done something like this with an optoma screen? Is it easy to rotate the caps, or are they also an integral part of the wind-up mechanism? Would it hurt the screen to be hanging down angled out from the front of the case, rather than straight down from the roller?


Second, the screen locks in place roughly every four inches and the smallest top border for my particular unit is 3 inches. I need a small top border (less than an inch) otherwise the bottom of the screen hits a countertop (even with the screen mounted all the way to the ceiling). But if I try to roll the screen up to make the top border smaller, it doesn't "lock" again until an inch of the screen is inside the case. Are other people who own the 92 inch graywolf able to lock in a top border of less than an inch? Is this something I can adjust? Can I take the screen apart to adjust it (and how hard would it be to put everything back together)? Worst case, could I use something on the counter to hold the screen's bottom bar in place (wind-up spring would be under tension), or would that damage the screen over the long term?


----------



## guitarman

Mostly they drop stop leaving 1/2 to 1/4" of black at the top. If you want it out from the wall use small L-brackets. The brackets I use are prefect for leveling the projector which is very important. I use hooks that have threads attached to the L-brackets and can adjust them for perfect balance.


You may be able to adjust things inside the case, you'll hv to experiment.


----------



## basement




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *buzz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I called tiger direct near me in the states & they told me their gray wolf screens were of the matte white variety.....no gray. I ordered today from visual apex & they assured me it is the gray screen. I tried pc nation but they couldn't guarantee me it was going to be the correct screen so I spent a little more with visual apex. Cant wait to get it, I have been using a painted piece of masonite for about a year with my 4805. I hope I am close enough to the cone to be ok.
> 
> 
> 
> buzz



FYI. Tigerdirect.ca now has the gray Gray Wolf 106" listed.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...0446&CatId=625


----------



## g3dahl

Hi Guitarman,


Thanks for your encouragement about the 4805/Graywolf combination. I was reading posts in this thread as I was working on putting my new HT room together, and became concerned about the possibility of losing too many lumens because of ceiling mounting.


The HT room is now up and running, and I have had several nights of movie watching. Yes, it is true: the image darkens significantly when I sit down. I keep trying to decide whether it is too much. And yes, the blacks are great. But I needed another point of reference to judge the results I was getting.


I decided to try a matte white screen to see what the difference would look like. I picked up a "DoAble" board at HD and made some comparisons. At first, the DoAble screen was very impressive: crisp and bright. My fears of potential hot spotting were unfounded. But along with this crispness came an unwelcome helping of screen door and pixel structure. The blacks were not as deep, but still not bad. I'm expecting to eventually paint the DoAble board with UPW or SS and have another look. But for now, the GW is back in service, and I am enjoying it more than ever.


It does become brighter if I stand up, but then the sparklies start to show up a bit, and I lose some of the smoothness.


And now my Panamorph U100 has just arrived, so more experiments are on the way. Fun!


Gary Dahl


----------



## SuperGoop




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *g3dahl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for your encouragement about the 4805/Graywolf combination. I was reading posts in this thread as I was working on putting my new HT room together, and became concerned about the possibility of losing too many lumens because of ceiling mounting.



I also have the same concern with my 4805. However, I have a low ceiling. My floor to lens distance is about 7' only. How high is your 4805 mounted?


I wonder if Gray Wolf's cone issue for ceiling mounts is a non-issue with low ceilings.


----------



## hmcewin

I tried the Graywolf with the 4805 ceiling mount. My current screen is a Vutec White screen with a gain of 1.4. With the 4805 mounted at 6' 9" from the floor and the Graywolf hanging in front of my screen for comparison the Graywolf was achieving about 1.0 gain with me seated. There is a very noticible drop in lunens when seated.


I had a sample of the Dalite Hi Power and taped it on the GrayWolf. In the same conditions as the above the Hi Power was much brighter than the GrayWolf and slightly brighter than my Vutec 1.4 gain white screen. Probably about 1.8 gain with a very smooth image.


There is visible texture on the Graywolf in some scenes and the color does not pop like on the white screen. Other than this, the picture on the Graywolf was very pleasing. However it is not bright enough for me with the ceiling mount. When I stood up the picture had punch and looked very good. If I had my projector on a table I would strongly consider keeping it.


After the comparison, I still prefer the white screen and the wide cone for viewing of the Vutec. If I do get a new screen, it would probably be the Hi Power. I think you just lose too much with the Graywolf when ceiling mounting.


Oh yes, I have a dedicted home theater room so can not comment how it works with ambient light.


Hope my experience helps those considering the Graywolf.


----------



## guitarman

I don't think a High power screen is a good match for the 4805 even ceiling mounted. Doesn't the 4805 put out 600 tuned lumens in econo? If so you'll be better off with a Graywolf or Mat White if you're ceiling mounted. Better off for a more reference brightness level off the screen. Reference is 12fl lumens, even so you'll still be over that with a ceiling mounted pj and the GW or MW. HP is only going to make it worse unless you want a blown out plasma look, nothing wrong with that but majority like to get closer to reference 12ftl.


Pluses with a bright projector ceiling mounted with the Graywolf are less artifacts or screen texture, less screen door, much deeper black level. I have the High Power screen right behind the Graywolf and have a projector that is 600lumens. I noticed too much video noise/artifacts with the HP screen. Graywolf is much better and the Mat white I have is also much better than the HP for my taste.


----------



## Sam Samuelian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I pulled the trigger tonight and purchased the 106" from Buy for $150 (special promo). AV Science doesn't sell this screen.
> 
> 
> I figured with all the different opinions here, the ONLY way to know for sure was to try it myself. And at that price, what have I got to lose?
> 
> 
> I will be using it with a ceiling mounted Z2 and will post results next week.




Hello FlyNavy....

Do you have your receipt for the purchase of the Optoma DS 9108PM Graywolf screen? Our best buy locally will only give me that price of $150.00 if I show them the receipt. They say it is very close to cost.

Otherwise, I will keep the screen I just got and had to pay $179.95 plus $10.79 in PA state tax. They reduced it because it had two noticeable dents right out of the newly opened box. I guess after reading all that this thread has contained, I should not have been surprised.

So far, I LOVE what I have seen comparing it to be three year old Greyhawk...better blacks, more vibrant colors, but especially the twenty percent increase in brightness using my Sharp Z9000 with a bulb at one third life AND best of all having a picture with punch even with a 250 watt bulb burning. I put the screen on the floor and pulled it up and "hung" it on the tensioning wires of the Stewart about halfway up to make the test.

Thanks to everyone for reporting their experiences, which prompted me to buy this great screen. Now I am anxiously awaiting another highly touted piece of equipment, the Optoma Movietime DV 10, which should be here in a few days.


PS. FlyNavy...What was the "special promo" you mentioned. No one locally ever heard of it. BTW, I only need a COPY of your receipt for proof. The only reason I got a discount was because of the damage. It really isn't fair to pay thirty dollars more than a person did in another Best Buy...especially if the product is damaged!


----------



## irallamecniv

So, is buy.com the place to order the GW online? I'm about to finally pull the trigger here, and it's between pcnation and buy.com.


----------



## TheLongshot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irallamecniv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, is buy.com the place to order the GW online? I'm about to finally pull the trigger here, and it's between pcnation and buy.com.



It seems to be. So far, it seems like everyone who has ordered from them so far has gotten a winner.


Jason


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think a High power screen is a good match for the 4805 even ceiling mounted. Doesn't the 4805 put out 600 tuned lumens in econo? If so you'll be better off with a Graywolf or Mat White if you're ceiling mounted. Better off for a more reference brightness level off the screen. Reference is 12fl lumens, even so you'll still be over that with a ceiling mounted pj and the GW or MW. HP is only going to make it worse unless you want a blown out plasma look, nothing wrong with that but majority like to get closer to reference 12ftl.
> 
> 
> Pluses with a bright projector ceiling mounted with the Graywolf are less artifacts or screen texture, less screen door, much deeper black level. I have the High Power screen right behind the Graywolf and have a projector that is 600lumens. I noticed too much video noise/artifacts with the HP screen. Graywolf is much better and the Mat white I have is also much better than the HP for my taste.



Curious. I had the exact opposite experience as what you describe. I have a low tuned lumen PJ (DT-300) that is similar to the 4805, low ceiling mounted (88") and found the graywolf to be completely unacceptable and dark when seated. The High Power by comparison was/is far superior. It is at least as bright as my HCMW (1.1 gain) and probably brighter - at least it feels that way as I don't have any professional calibration tools (just my eyes!).


After calibrating the HP I don't feel like it is a blown out plasma, I just get a very pleasing bright, sharp image and screen door is not an issue at all. I guess you are right though - it ultimately comes down to personal taste.


The Gray Wolf and a table mounted PJ would most certainly be a winning combination though.


----------



## Robbie E

To Guitarman and others that have tried the DV10 and the Graywolf combination. Do you recommend the combination? I have the DV10 about 9.5 ft back and the lens center is 6 inches off the ground. It's in a walkout basement so I have decent light control. Our seating is about 14-15 ft, but as close as 11 ft. We like the screen low, so I have it angled down slightly with the huge offset. The bottom of the image is 2 ft off the ground.


I am currently projecting on a beige wall about 100" and wanted to upgrade to a screen. I lurked around the DIY threads and decided the time and money for a DIY screen is more than a Graywolf.


Do you recommend the 106" Graywolf for this setup? If not what do you recommend? Price is a factor, I'd like to stay close to the Graywolf price.


BTW - This forum is incredible. I've only had a projector for 5 days and the whole family loves it. Even our 3 month old. Baby Einstein looks great huge.


Thanks


----------



## quickfire

Hey.....i ordered my 106" screen from PC Connection...it was supposed to be the Panoview White Matte screen...but they sent me a 106" Graywolf instead......I called them about this and they said that was all they had in stock for the time being....so those who want to get a Graywolf for around $190.00 it would be worth a try!


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sam Samuelian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FlyNavy...What was the "special promo" you mentioned. No one locally ever heard of it.



Sam,

Check your PM.

-FLYNAVY


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irallamecniv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, is buy.com the place to order the GW online? I'm about to finally pull the trigger here, and it's between pcnation and buy.com.



Got my GW at Buy.com for only $150 after applying a 10% off coupon I found online. Great deal, and it came in perfect condition through FedEx.


Highly recommend Buy.com for this screen.


----------



## hmcewin

Robbie,


The Graywolf with the projector mounted as you indicated would be very good. That is the best possible case with your setup. With the screen at 2' and projector anywhere near that you are good to go.


I experimented with the 4805/Graywolf on a small table by the side of my seat and it was fantastic. However I wanted to ceiling mount mine and when I did this at 7' from the floor, I lost the gain of the Graywolf. In my case the Dalite Hipower will work a lot better. My experience reflects that of a post by Itsdon a couple of post back.


I am basing my conclusions on what I observed and not calculating ft lamberts etc. I would not be happy with a ceiling mounted projector and the Graywolf...just too dim. I wish it would have worked for me at the price of the Graywolf. I had gotten mine at BB so it was no problem taking it back.


Good luck with your setup.


----------



## Robbie E

Thanks for the reply hmcewin. I still question as to whether this woule be a good setup. The projector is mounted only 6 inches off the ground and seated eye level is around 44 inches. If your projector is 84 inches off of the ground, the difference to eye level is about the same.


Does this mean I would get a dark picture too?


Sorry if these are really newbie questions but I would hate to waste the money.


I do angle the image lower, to 24 inches off the ground, and correct with keystone. Should that help?


Thanks


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robbie E* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply hmcewin. I still question as to whether this woule be a good setup. The projector is mounted only 6 inches off the ground and seated eye level is around 44 inches. If your projector is 84 inches off of the ground, the difference to eye level is about the same.
> 
> 
> Does this mean I would get a dark picture too?
> 
> 
> Sorry if these are really newbie questions but I would hate to waste the money.
> 
> 
> I do angle the image lower, to 24 inches off the ground, and correct with keystone. Should that help?
> 
> 
> Thanks



The Movie Time is extremely bright 850lumens on a 106" 1.0gain screen. Mainly you want a low priced non-tensioned screen that won't show waves with video. So since the MT is so bright, I'd suggest a Dalite Mat White Screen. I've been using my Movie Time with a 1.0 Mat white screen and it's good match.


Here's the thing. When a screen pushes Ftl too high you get elevated blacks, less color and video noise is raised. You'll be in the cone with the Graywolf and gain will be too high for that Movie Time.


A member said the HP is better with his DT300 over the Graywolf ceiling mounted. We agree 100%, I recommend the HP for the Z200 or DT300 because it's lumens level is low, under 300 I think.


----------



## Robbie E

Thanks Guitarman.


So a Model B Matte White would be best? The deluxe includes a tensioning arm and a keystone adjustment. Is the upgrade worth it?


Also is high contrast matte worth the upgrade?


This should run around the same price as the graywolf.


----------



## guitarman

The HCMW has the video waves issue also.


The keystone adjustment sounds good, it might come in handy. Plus you might get lucky like hmcewin and get a screen that hangs flatter.


----------



## irallamecniv

Ordered the Graywolf yesterday from buy.com. Let's hope I get the right one that's *hopefully* not damaged.


----------



## Brajesh

First off, thanks much to guitarman for starting this thread. Got my screen from buy.com & put it up just now. Minor dent in metal casing, but not bad at all. PQ is fabulous--much better than my DIY blackout cloth screen. However, I definitely notice a clear line where the plastic was--the top part being brighter than the bottom. Doesn't bother my wife, but does bother me. Should I try to exchange for another screen (a hassle) or just live w/the issue for a while? For those who got the screen w/discoloration issue, has the line diminished by now or is it just as pronounced?


----------



## guitarman

It's a matter of how bad it bothers you. Several new owners reported the plastic being shorter and not entering the video area. You must have got some old stock.


How is buy.xxx handling the return ship expenses? If it's no charge I'd try to get a cleaner one. Even some old stock may not show the pressing, mine didn't.


----------



## df4801

Boy what a long thread, and I think I read the whole thing!


Anyway, if with a ceiling mount, the greywolf really has a gain of around 1.4, then how would it compare to a firehawk?

Granted, much cheaper! But how would pq and ability to handle ambient light be different, if at all?

I would think that they should act pretty similar or am I missing something?


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brajesh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First off, thanks much to guitarman for starting this thread. Got my screen from buy.com & put it up just now. Minor dent in metal casing, but not bad at all. PQ is fabulous--much better than my DIY blackout cloth screen. However, I definitely notice a clear line where the plastic was--the top part being brighter than the bottom. Doesn't bother my wife, but does bother me. Should I try to exchange for another screen (a hassle) or just live w/the issue for a while? For those who got the screen w/discoloration issue, has the line diminished by now or is it just as pronounced?



I bought two screens from BB and B&H photo that both have the plastic band....however...one was worse than the other.


I also checked a second open box screen at BB....that also had the plastic band fairly bad.....and even two BB emplyees could see it.


Until there is a pretty much gauranteed place to buy without the plastic band....I am holding off on a second GW.


----------



## braidkid




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *df4801* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Boy what a long thread, and I think I read the whole thing!
> 
> 
> Anyway, if with a ceiling mount, the greywolf really has a gain of around 1.4, then how would it compare to a firehawk?
> 
> Granted, much cheaper! But how would pq and ability to handle ambient light be different, if at all?
> 
> I would think that they should act pretty similar or am I missing something?



Well, the firehawk is angular reflective whereas the graywolf is retroflective. The difference is, the firehawk will reflect light to the sidewalls while the graywolf reflects light directly back toward the projector or rear of the room. If your side walls are closer to the screen than the back wall, you may want to go with the graywolf since it is retroflective. However, if your side walls are far enough away from the screen, you may want to go with the firehawk. All things being equal, it would be hard not to go with the graywolf since they are pretty much giving them away at the asking price.


Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Earz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a matter of how bad it bothers you. Several new owners reported the plastic being shorter and not entering the video area. You must have got some old stock.
> 
> 
> How is buy.xxx handling the return ship expenses? If it's no charge I'd try to get a cleaner one. Even some old stock may not show the pressing, mine didn't.



Tom it looks as if your using a matte white screen according to you posts in the pj forums....which screen are you currently using with your H-79?


----------



## guitarman

The Mat White's in mothballs. I have a High Power screen for the HT1000, the Graywolf is a better match with the H79.


df4801

Ceiling mounted PJ will only get about half the 1.8gain. Still plenty for a bright projector and you still get the ambient light reflection quality. If you have a bright projector it's a good match.


----------



## df4801

thanks guitarman,

informative as always!


Problem is I have a dim projector (at least if I want max contrast with the iris closed). So I quess its back to the drawing board. I was hoping the graywolf could be a short term alternative until supernova prices come down.


----------



## Assayer

I just saw GWs for sale at a Fry's store. For those who are looking for a brick and mortar alternative to BB, and are afraid of getting a dented up case online, this might be a possibility.


----------



## LejfK




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ceiling mounted PJ will only get about half the 1.8gain. Still plenty for a bright projector and you still get the ambient light reflection quality. If you have a bright projector it's a good match.



What qualifies as a "bright projector"? I've got a Benq 7800 I plan on using w/ a 92' screen in a 14 x 14 room. Benq says 800 lumens, but we know that's ballpark. The projector calculator says a 92' screen with a throw around 12-13' is becoming "too bright" and producing 24 foot lamberts. I know these are only approximate numbers, but am I in the range for a Greyhawk with a ceiling mounted 7800?


----------



## Sam Samuelian

What do you think would be the best portable screen surface (like an easy to set up Da-Lite Home Insta Theater) between 92 and 106 inches in size that would match up with the Movietime? Good picture quality and ESPECIALLY the ability to look better with ambient light in rooms hard to darken completely would be the goals in the case of "Have Home Theater Will Travel".


----------



## TheLongshot

Just as a note, I actually shined my flashlight at my screen, and was able to see the line that way, so it is there. Thing is, in general use, I don't notice it. I had to look for it with my flashlight to see it.


Jason


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LejfK* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What qualifies as a "bright projector"? I've got a Benq 7800 I plan on using w/ a 92' screen in a 14 x 14 room. Benq says 800 lumens, but we know that's ballpark. The projector calculator says a 92' screen with a throw around 12-13' is becoming "too bright" and producing 24 foot lamberts. I know these are only approximate numbers, but am I in the range for a Greyhawk with a ceiling mounted 7800?



Anything that can do near 500 tuned lumens and up I'll call bright enough. If your ballpark now is 24ftl you'd be ok.


----------



## NickB

I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm disappointed with Optoma and how they have handled my problems with this product.


I received my screen about a week ago and got all excited because the case was in perfect condition. However, once I mounted the thing and pulled it down I noticed something that looked like a paint splotch on the bottom center of the screen. This defect was bad enough, but I also had the same problem as others with the plastic covering the top portion of the screen (I was hoping it wouldn't be an issue)


Last night my wife and I fired up the projector for our first look at the GrayWolf. It took only about 2 minutes for my her to notice the light band across the top 12" of the screen. I was hoping it would go un-noticed, but it bothered us both so much that we had to switch to the RPTV downstairs to finish watching the movie.


Since I live about an hour from Optoma's offices in Milpitas, I decided to call them and see if I could exchange it in person. I saw a post from Guitarman stating they would do this, so I took them up on it. When I called, I specifically asked if I could come in and exchange it for one without the defects. I was told that it wouldn't be a problem, so today I took off a few hours from work and went down there.


Upon arrival I was given the new screen. I showed them the flaws in my old screen and then unboxed the new one to find that it had the same plastic sheet covering the top portion of the screen. I explained to the Senior Customer Service rep that this was the cause of the many complaints (and returned screens) that I've read about in this forum. He said that they (Optoma) were completely unaware of this being an issue and that if it was, they would surely know it by now.


At this point I was told that the new screen should be fine. I dissagreed and asked that before I left, could we at least throw an image on it to see if the plastic left the same light imprint. I know that Optoma must have a couple of demo rooms and it wouldn't have taken more than 5 minutes to check things out. Unfortunately I was told no, they just wouldn't do it. In a last ditch effort I asked if we could try one more screen, but the guy just told me there was no way he was going to spend an hour and a half unboxing screens for me (which is not at all what I had asked). He told me that if I didn't like this one, to just return it to the place I bought it from for a refund.


Considering what these screens cost, I can understand that Optoma might not want to spend the time required to make me a satisfied customer. However, what I don't understand is why they didn't want to spend the 5 minutes required to show them the defect. They are sure to learn of it later, and the costs of shipping these things back and forth has got to be killing their margin.


So I'm not sure if I should send this back for a refund or an exchange, has anyone noticed if this band goes away over time?


NickB


----------



## guitarman

I can see why AVS didn't want to sell them. I'd say if the seller doesn't hit you for return ship prices, send it back until you get one that's perfect or at some point the dealer will decline and refund your money. Allot of guys got them without the defect so luck could be on your side.


Panoview must have got the word becuase a few new owners said the plastic was short and didn't enter the screen area.


----------



## NickB

Well the replacement screen is up and it looks like the band on this one is a few shades lighter than the last screen. Once it's dark out, I'll throw in a few more movies and see what the boss says. This one may be a keeper.


NickB


----------



## Brajesh

I've got two more 106" screens coming from buy.com ... will report back on top area band/shading issue. If as noticeable as my first one, I guess I'm done w/the Graywolf.


----------



## guitarman

I've been watching the HT1000 with the Graywolf for the last couple of days and it looks excellent. The HT1000 isn't extremely bright, maybe a little over 300 lumens. But the HT1000 lacks some depth on the color red. The Graywolf deepens the red to mimic closer to projectors that have extra red due to their colorwheels. Blacks and depth make up for the lower lumens which creates a 3D more movie theater experience. Overall Movies look much better, more 3D/heavy blacks/enriched color.


Nice cheap screen.


Once again even ceiling mounted, it works.


----------



## Jeff412

I just picked up one of these screens at BB. I'm using it with a Sanyo Z2 that is mounted at 5' 8". Here's my take.


I was using a Da-Lite matte white screen. There is definately a noticeable difference. Though not all the differences are good.


1. The blacks are much better.


2. Colors seems very rich.


3. The 100% whites seem dull, especially in scenes with a lot of white, like snow scenes.


4. Sparkles are visible in the bright scenes.


5. Build quality is poor compared to DaLite.

a. The retraction spring seems weak. It doesn't want to pull the screen al the way back up.

b. The fabric is much thinner than the DaLite and seems to be stretched at the edges.

c. I don't have anything to compare to, but the glass beads seem to get all over everything. That may be normal though.



Overall the jury is still out, but I am leaning toward returning it and going with the DaLite High Contrast Matte White screen.


Jeff


----------



## guitarman

A pull down dalite HCMW will show waves with video, don't get it.


----------



## Itsdon

Again I find that curious. My Da-Lite HCMW showed no waves, ever. My Da-Lite HiPower shows no waves either. The Gray Wolf I returned (for other reasons) definitely showed waves. Perhaps it's because my PJ's (X1 & DT300) are not light cannons? Not sure why my observations/experiences differ from yours but they do. Both of my screens are the standard model "B" with no pretentioners.


----------



## mystery

The HCMW screen from Da-Lite will show waves if it has the tension bar attached at the back. My model B exhibits this and is especially noticeable during bright and/or panning scenes. My High Power screen shows no waves whatsoever during projection but it's not tensioned.


Wayne


----------



## Prelude2244

Hi. Newbie question.....will this screen be a good match for H31 or 4805? The projector will be about 14 ft. from the screen and the viewing distance is about 11 ft. Viewers will be mostly at the center. I really don't want to spend more than $200 for a screen. Thanks.


----------



## Robbie E

I received my 106" Graywolf today from Buy.com. A couple of very small dents and no problem with the lighter band where the plastic was. The box looked like hell but Fedex must have been kind because the case was really in good shape.


I just finished hanging it and testing it out on LOTR ROTK. I've got an Optoma DV10 Movietime sitting 6 inches off the ground and the bottom of the screen is around 24". Seating is 15 ft back. I've only played with it for about 20 minutes but my initial impression is that it looks a little dark. When I put my head really close to the projector, within a foot or so, it looks really bright, perfect for me. To adjust for normal viewing height, I set the projector to bright mode and turned up the brightness a tad to get it how I like it. The stand up sit down thing and seeing a drastic change in brightness is annoying.


After the adjustment, when compared to my theater lite white matte screen, the graywolf colors look much deeper. Another thing that has been eliminated is the SDE. This is drastically reduced and I can watch pretty close as 10 ft away with no problem.


I must admit, I like a very bright picture and my first impression is that the Graywolf is dark, but I think with projector adjustments it can be great.


The few waves that exist seem to disappear with video.


I guess there are always tradeoffs. Maybe I'll have to get a MW as well.


----------



## Jeff412

I think I have to agree. I think I am going back to my matte white screen. I just can't stand how dark the picture gets. I love the blacks though. Has anyone tried the DaLite Silver screen? The samples that I got look pretty good, but its only a 6" x 6" sample.


Jeff


----------



## SMP01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robbie E* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Another thing that has been eliminated is the SDE. This is drastically reduced and I can watch pretty close as 10 ft away with no problem.




Wow, I don't think that has been mentioned before. Can anybody else with a 480p DLP projector with this screen comment on this.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Again I find that curious. My Da-Lite HCMW showed no waves, ever. My Da-Lite HiPower shows no waves either. The Gray Wolf I returned (for other reasons) definitely showed waves. Perhaps it's because my PJ's (X1 & DT300) are not light cannons? Not sure why my observations/experiences differ from yours but they do. Both of my screens are the standard model "B" with no pretentioners.




It's been documented along time ago when the gray Dalight screen came out. Everybody was complaing about visable shade waves with video. Plus tons of unhappy pictures were posted.










You won't get that with a retro reflect. The fact that you're saying the graywolf definetely showed waves is odd. Too many people right here have the screen and post all the time how waves are gone with video. You're right about one thing though the DT300 is too dim, I recommend a dalite high power for that machine and table mount would work best.


----------



## wad06

This seems to be about the best screen deal out there, but the inability to see it in action is what scares me.


I've got an NEC LT240k (some would consider it a light cannon). It is a 4:3 projector, but, I generally only view 16:9 material these days. So, I was thinking of getting this screen and just figuring a way around the 4:3 problem (suggestions appreciated).


Anyway, my NEC is in a table top configuration (actually it sits in a small cabinet under the table with my current screen - 100 inch DIY blackout cloth on a wood frame - sitting 15" off the ground). I do a good bit of Saturday and Sunday afternoon viewing (football) in a room with some ambient light (shaded windows). But I also do a lot of evening/light controlled viewing of HD and/or DVD content. I probably go about half and half with ambient light and light controlled.


I understand that there may be a problem with sparklies, and I can live with some of that. I have two questions though:


1) With my projector being under the table (about two feet below eye level), will I be inside the viewing cone and getting the full benefit of the 1.8 gain?


2) To alleviate any wave concerns, how doable do you think it would be to cut the screen off of the pull down mount and staple it to a fixed frame?


Thanks for the input,


Wad


----------



## Jeff412

Best Buy has them. They are more expensive, but at least you can return it if you don't like it.


Jeff


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robbie E* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I received my 106" Graywolf today from Buy.com. A couple of very small dents and no problem with the lighter band where the plastic was. The box looked like hell but Fedex must have been kind because the case was really in good shape.
> 
> 
> I just finished hanging it and testing it out on LOTR ROTK. I've got an Optoma DV10 Movietime sitting 6 inches off the ground and the bottom of the screen is around 24". Seating is 15 ft back. I've only played with it for about 20 minutes but my initial impression is that it looks a little dark. When I put my head really close to the projector, within a foot or so, it looks really bright, perfect for me. To adjust for normal viewing height, I set the projector to bright mode and turned up the brightness a tad to get it how I like it. The stand up sit down thing and seeing a drastic change in brightness is annoying.
> 
> 
> After the adjustment, when compared to my theater lite white matte screen, the graywolf colors look much deeper. Another thing that has been eliminated is the SDE. This is drastically reduced and I can watch pretty close as 10 ft away with no problem.
> 
> 
> I must admit, I like a very bright picture and my first impression is that the Graywolf is dark, but I think with projector adjustments it can be great.
> 
> 
> The few waves that exist seem to disappear with video.
> 
> 
> I guess there are always tradeoffs. Maybe I'll have to get a MW as well.



Put the Movie time in sRGB and color temp 2, that's a bright setup and colors are more natural.


You know users shouldn't fool themselves by noticing the difference in brightness when they get closer to the cone. Then they're feeling left out and want the lost brightness. Again any projector with decent gain will get great benefits from the image being more towards HT brightness levels. Out of the cone.


Lets say out of the cone you're closer to a mat white gain. For a bright projector this is good. You'll see less of the artifacts, the screen texure, less screen door, much deeper black level and colors this way.


I'd say don't get greedy wanting for the brightness you see when standing up.

jmo


Movie Time, hey I was worried the MT wouldn't match up with the Graywolf because it's extremely bright. I measured 850lumens on a 1.0 106" screen. This is 250lumens higher than the 4805 and 465lumens higher than the H31 and H27. If you're in the cone a little you're really pushing the brightness level. Lets say the Graywolf adds 1.5gain, then you're at 1275lumens. This is going to give you elevated blacks, not great for HT viewing. Ok for daytime football but that's it.


----------



## Robbie E

Thanks for the tip Tom. I'll try it and see how it looks. I've been running it in sRBG temp 1, I'll see if upping the temp to 2 will help.


----------



## TheLongshot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wad06* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've got an NEC LT240k (some would consider it a light cannon). It is a 4:3 projector, but, I generally only view 16:9 material these days. So, I was thinking of getting this screen and just figuring a way around the 4:3 problem (suggestions appreciated).



Well, you can zoom in so that the picture fills up the screen. Light spill may be a problem, tho. Also, you could get an anamorphic lens, but that would add cost.


Jason


----------



## guitarman

"Movie Time, hey I was worried the MT wouldn't match up with the Graywolf because it's extremely bright. I measured 850lumens on a 1.0 106" screen. This is 250lumens higher than the 4805 and 465lumens higher than the H31 and H27. If you're in the cone a little you're really pushing the brightness level. Lets say the Graywolf adds 1.5gain, then you're at 1275lumens. This is going to give you elevated blacks, not great for HT viewing. Ok for daytime football but that's it. "


To give you a better idea on brightness level vs HT applications. Reference HT is 12ftls off the screen. The Movie time with its 850lumens is 33.8ftl off a 106" diag 1.0gain screen. This is high brightness. For HT I'd test out a ND filter which you could take off for daytime football/sports etc.


The 4805 with this setup is 23.8ftl off the screen.

The H31/H27 are 15.8ftl off the screen.


This is why you'll hear many say the black level looks so great with the H31 & H27. Also the reason why I say don't be greedy for brightness levels. Super bright projectors can be useful in that you can remove tricks to make the darker for sports viewing or ambient light viewing. Night viewing for reference HT, use the filter again.


----------



## irallamecniv

Got my Graywolf today from buy.com, shipped FedEx. No dents on the case at all. The plastic didn't fall out by itself. It did cover a top portion of the gray screen area, but it was only stuck onto the black border. I shined a flashlight to check for the light band, and so far there doesn't appear to be one. I'm going to mount it today and check it out more carefully, but so far so good. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.


----------



## guitarman

Sounds like a wiinner. I have to buy a second one for my cigarstore. I brought my H30 there today to size up a screen, used a sheet and the image looked very good, good and wavey. No doubt the Graywolf with ambient light will look way better. Very usefull screen for me. Big screen cigar store here I come.










Oh I wouldn't want the High Power there or a Mat White, sold on the Graywolf. Graywolf for a store with moderate light filtering in, projector table mounted, can't go wrong.


----------



## irallamecniv

Well, I've been able to spend some quality time with the Graywolf. First, here's my current set up:


I've got an InFocus 4805 with about 150 hours on the lamp. I ceiling mounted the 4805 about 7'6" high, about 15' from the screen. The bottom of the screen is about 26" from the floor, and eye level is at about 46". I sit about 11' back from the 106" screen (yeah, I know I'm wayyy closer than the recommended 2x seating distance, but due to the layout of my living room, I don't really have a choice). Bright room (3 white walls, and then it opens up into the dining room and kitchen). I'm running in eco mode without my ND2 filter. I did a quick recalibration using AVIA. 4805 is hooked up using component cables to a Sony DVD player.


Like I said in a previous post, I got my Graywolf today from buy.com, shipped via FedEx. I guess I got lucky because there were no dents on the white case at all. When I pulled down the screen, the plastic covered a portion of the top of the gray screen area, but it was only attached to the black border. I had to peel it off. I looked for the infamous light gray band, but there was none at all. I even shined a flashlight on it, but it was perfect.


I didn't notice a strong smell from the screen. I noticed a slight smell from it when I first pulled it down, but nothing too harsh. But then again, maybe I was used to it since I had spent most of the day spray painting my DIY monkey_man ceiling mount.










Anyway, I fired up the pj and pulled the Graywolf down halfway so that I could compare it to my white wall. I also had the lights on in my dining room and kitchen (my living room opens up to them). The Graywolf produced a watchable picture while the wall, unsurprisingly, produce a very washed out, unwatchable picture. Tomorrow, I'm going to try to watch during the day where I have a window on the left wall in the viewing area. But so far, I'm very happy with the way it performs with ambient light.


Then, I turned off all of the lights and walked around standing up. Great picture, great contrast, awesome blacks. I stood on a chair and put my head next to the pj and it was even better. People who table mount must be in heaven. Next, I went to my seat and sat down....


I did notice a slight drop in brightness, but that was to be expected. But I must emphasize that in my case, it was not at all drastic. Noticeable, yes. But it really wasn't that huge of a deal, and it was still a very good picture. My roommate and I watched an episode of CSI and it was awesome. I moved around to each side of the room to see what the dropoff is like. I sat at the worst angle in my set up -- about 3 feet to the right of the screen and 2 feet back, on the extreme right side of my living room, against the side wall -- and while it was slightly dimmer than the main seating, it was still watchable. Not bad at all!


It did seem to reduce SDE a little bit. It doesn't make it go away completely, but it does reduce it. Regarding the screen's texture.. doesn't bother me at all. I don't even really notice or see it, even sitting about 10-11' back from the 106" screen. The only time I may notice it is when there's a shot of the sky or something similar to that, but even then it's not that big of a deal to me, and I really have to look for it. I can be really picky sometimes, but in this case it's not that big of a problem. I haven't seen or noticed any sparklies, either. No waves at this time.


So, that's about it for now. I'm pretty satisfied with the Graywolf. Keep in mind, that it's my very first screen. I had been projecting onto a white wall for the past few months so that's all I really have to compare it to -- so take my views with a grain of salt. Bottom line, I'm glad I got the Graywolf.


----------



## Brajesh

Well, I got my two new 106" screens from buy.com. The original one with the clearly noticeable banding (where the plastic was) is on its way back. Thank goodness for buy.com's free return UPS shipping. I got two news ones because my brother wanted one for his InFocus SP4805 as well. I have a Panny AE700U.


One of the two new screens also had the banding issue, but not as severe as my original Graywolf. Seemed like another older stock screen (with the plastic covering part of the gray screen surface). My brother wasn't bothered by this, so off this screen went to him







.


The third screen was near-perfect: no banding (the plastic only covered the top black masking area), w/only minor waves. This one's a keeper for me--third time was the charm







. I'm guessing Optoma has addressed the issue (in newer stock screens) by moving the plastic covering higher to the black masking area only.


I did some tests (dark room w/no ambient light) with the Graywolf compared to my DIY blackout cloth screen:


Plusses:

+ The blacks are improved (as Jeff noted above)

+ Colors appear richer (as Jeff noted above)

+ Looks professional compared to a DIY screen

+ Build quality is okay (didn't have retraction issues with any of the three screens)

+ Awesome value, awesome value, awesome value! (I was about to get a Carada for a lot more until I stumbled upon this thread)



Minuses:

- Quality control issues (banding namely, which now seems fixed maybe)

- Minor sparklies (as Jeff noted above)

- Bright scenes (sky, snow) appear dull, showing color/texture of gray screen itself

- Wish they had a size between 92" & 106"--one's too small for me; the other's a little too big (a 96" or 100" would've been perfect)


With my DIY blackout screen, I used a B+W filter to achieve better contrast/blacks. The picture looks better w/o the filter on the Graywolf. Need to spend more time calibrating/optimizing the PQ.


----------



## kel

Although I have other problems with the GW (dirty texture, mostly), I would say that the waves are not noticeable with film material. I occasionally see them but only when there is a horizontal line that I know should be straight (such as computer desktop or menu guides). During normal film material, I don't see them at all.


----------



## steinre1

I'm thinking of taking my graywolf back and exchanging it because of the waves. I've read reports of people getting this screen with "minimal" amount of waves so I will try for one of those. I notice them on any type of panning - and god forbid the score update from around the league pops up during football - I actually get seasick! I know that having my projector ceiling mounted does not help - but I hope I can get one better than this...


PS - the waves have definately gotten worse over the month that I have owned the screen.


----------



## jonnyozero3

I'd like to add that my second graywolf, which I've had for awhile now, has much more noticeable waves in it than the first one. The first was perfect, but this one isn't. It's almost like the screen is installed in the roller 1/4" crooked.










Since my PJ has been busted I'd forgotten about it.


----------



## guitarman

You could cut the material out and build a DIY frame. If you need a pull down screen your only choice is a tensioned one ($1800) ouch.


I'm just happy is does well in many areas. At least you don't see shadow waves in the video like you would with other materials. Make sure the screen is perfectly level. If you suspect there's an angle from the roller try leveling at the bottom bar if you can.


----------



## jonnyozero3

I just went up and measured - there is 3/4" of black material on the left side showing above the screen, and 1/4" showing on the right side above the screen. It's really easy to see. I just wish I had bothered to notice when I first recieved the screen. Damnit.


----------



## guitarman

Thats a real defect. Maybe you can get Optoma to exchange it for you.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Yeah, I'll give them a call. Between the blown PJ bulb and the crooked screen, I'm just waiting for my receiver to die or something


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem

Right now I hate i dont live in the US.

They are selling out the 106" greywolf for 163$ at buy.com right now (plus a 30$ extra discount if you got their visa







)

But since i Live in Sweden (Europe) i cant order










You lucky americanos - a 1.8 gain greyscreen with 106" diag for stunning 163$.... *sighing* Me want also si si....


Regards

Boogieman


----------



## KramerTC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *[Europe]Boogiem* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Right now I hate i dont live in the US.
> 
> They are selling out the 106" greywolf for 163$ at buy.com right now (plus a 30$ extra discount if you got their visa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> But since i Live in Sweden (Europe) i cant order
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You lucky americanos - a 1.8 gain greyscreen with 106" diag for stunning 163$.... *sighing* Me want also si si....
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Boogieman



You should see what Epson is going to charge for the US version of the TW600.

So, we're even then


----------



## JimmyDaves

Is the Greywolf only available in a Pull down screen? Also, are the available sizes only 92" and 106"? Ideally I would like a fixed screen and size around 75" to 80". Is it possible to get a pull down screen and transform that into a fixed screen?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, I'll give them a call. Between the blown PJ bulb and the crooked screen, I'm just waiting for my receiver to die or something



Cheer up, I blew my Marshal Stack up when a can of Orange soda tipped over. Sheet happens.










Better luck


----------



## Sam Samuelian

Originally Posted by [Europe]Boogiem

Right now I hate i dont live in the US.

They are selling out the 106" greywolf for 163$ at buy.com right now (plus a 30$ extra discount if you got their visa )

But since i Live in Sweden (Europe) i cant order


You lucky americanos - a 1.8 gain greyscreen with 106" diag for stunning 163$.... *sighing* Me want also si si....


Regards

Boogieman



I just ordered the screen and it came to $156 (after the rebate for opening a credit card) because Buy.com is charging $22.00 with shipping. Didn't I see free shipping on this screen only last week...or are my eyes fooling me?

Sam

PS. Note that I also ordered the great deal CompUSA is offering on the Movietime including a 92 inch screen, a subwoofer, two DVD's, and 32 packs of popcorn and assorted candy, nuts, etc. The screen was listed as white matte, but happily came in as the Graywolf!


----------



## Smarty-pants




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JimmyDaves* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the Greywolf only available in a Pull down screen? Also, are the available sizes only 92" and 106"? Ideally I would like a fixed screen and size around 75" to 80". Is it possible to get a pull down screen and transform that into a fixed screen?



I was wondering the same. Only I want bigger... would need to be 124" diagonal 16:9, then convert to 108"x46" 2.35 screen. Can just the material alone be ordered??


----------



## jmnaas

Any good online sellers for the stewart screens?


----------



## Robbie E

I sent back the Graywolf we were using with our DV10.


It definitely helped with the blacks and SDE, but my wife and I are suckers for brightness, and having the projector pretty much on the floor, it didn't do it for us. When I sat right next to the floor, the screen was fabulous, but in the seating it just seemed dingy, because of the poor viewing angle. When sitting off to the side, it got even darker.


The waves would disappear with video, but aesthetically the wavy screen is pretty ugly when not in use. And rolling it up each time, is a real pain since I was having the same problem with retraction that many here have discussed. That was my wife's problem with it. So that means I'm probably going to get a Dalite permwall. At least it should take care of the waves.


In the meantime, I finished painting our wall Behr UPW flat to use as our screen, and I have to admit I like the change. The SDE has returned slightly, but I'm the only one that it bothers. I'm glad I got my viewing angles back.


Anybody here tried both the HCCV permwall and the graywolf?


----------



## Randy S




> Quote:
> Any good online sellers for the stewart screens?



AV Science, call or PM Jason Turk.


----------



## TheLongshot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sam Samuelian* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just ordered the screen and it came to $156 (after the rebate for opening a credit card) because Buy.com is charging $22.00 with shipping. Didn't I see free shipping on this screen only last week...or are my eyes fooling me?



Your eyes were fooling you. They weren't offering free shipping on the screen.


Jason


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TheLongshot* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your eyes were fooling you. They weren't offering free shipping on the screen.
> 
> 
> Jason



Maybe he was thinking about PCNation.


----------



## Bajajim

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLongshot

Your eyes were fooling you. They weren't offering free shipping on the screen.


Jason



Maybe he was thinking about PCNation.



......or Amazon


----------



## harmil2

Anyone know if we can get the screen material only w/o the dented case with poor retraction? I am thinking of designing my DIY b/o cloth fixed screen with graywolf on the other side. Fortunately mine is light and would be easy to flip.


Any quesses how GW would work with a new Z4 or pany 900? I am about to upgrade from my Z2 (ceiling mount.)


----------



## guitarman

You can't buy the material seperate. It's cheap enough with the case, you can just cut it out. Which is easy with the larger black border on top.


----------



## A2D

Well, I guess not all Graywolfs are made equal. My first one has its spring broke in less than a week.

The replacement works like a charm. No light bands. No loud spring noise when pulling down.

Most of all, the colors are much better now, I did not see the dingy color as from the first one. The second one shows less black levels somehow, however, to my surprise, I can see much more details now. The dark scenes were not pushed heavily to the darker side as the first one. The viewing angle also appears wider.

I am very happy with my new Graywolf now


----------



## johnbe

Anyone new reading this thread would get no idea about this screen. Except it seems there is very little quality control in building it. Too bad someone from the company hasn't come on to defend the product.


----------



## hgaibor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bajajim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I received my Graywolf from Amazon today, 6 days before the scheduled arrival date of 8/15, the box had been torn open at one end and had a hole near the middle. When I opened the box I found only one, so far, dent in the case, almost below the "P" in Panovision. I took it to the garage to air it out and had trouble pulling down the screen (no place to hook it on to and only me), so I hooked the pull down handle to a nail locked in a vise and, holding the case, I walked straight back, keeping it level with the floor, and it opened up fully...but it wouldn't lock open. I pulled it back as far as it would go and when I would let up on the pressure it would try to retract.
> 
> My question is, does it have to be hanging down to stay down or could there be something wrong with it? This is going in my place down in Baja, but it'll probably be a month or more before I get down there, so I'd like to make sure it works properly before taking it down there and while I can still return it. Any help would be welcomed...thanks,



Bajajim, did you order the 92" or 106" from Amazon?, I am ready to pull the trigger on this but want to make sure that Amazon is sending out the correct (gray) screen.

Thanks!


----------



## guitarman

I defended it. Hey it's a $150 screen that will give you million dollar results. Me I don't care about a ding in the $150 case. I had one and pressed it back. Screen texture I don't get into it, ceiling mounted pj it's far less noticable which is probably why it's light for me. The Gray adds blacks and color for my setup. Plus it puts my off screen brightness level closer to SMPTE standards (12fl). Gray helps major with my white walls and ceiling. Best you can get for a non tensioned screen is this retro-reflect.


Like I said a $150 with million dollar results


----------



## Bajajim

Hgaibor,


I got the 106" screen


----------



## mark4x4




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Again I find that curious. My Da-Lite HCMW showed no waves, ever. My Da-Lite HiPower shows no waves either. The Gray Wolf I returned (for other reasons) definitely showed waves. Perhaps it's because my PJ's (X1 & DT300) are not light cannons? Not sure why my observations/experiences differ from yours but they do. Both of my screens are the standard model "B" with no pretentioners.



I see that you live in San Jose, I live in San Jose myself. I was looking to purchase a Dalite screen for my Optoma H78. One of my choose was the HCMW, the other was the Video Spectra, in the Model C CSR. I wanted your opinion on the HCMW as far picture quality and build quality overall and if you have any experience with the Video Spectra material.


Regards,

Mark


----------



## LoneAspen

My (very unofficial and very subjective) Graywolf review:


Well, I've had my Graywolf for about a week now, and have mixed feelings about it. The first one I got had blotches on the screen, but it was easy enough to RMA through Optoma, and the replacement screen arrived with no dents in the case, no marks on the screen, and no band from the plastic.


After watching about one movie a night on it, projected by a ceiling-mounted Infocus 4805, here's my thoughts...


I like the contrast, and the black levels are amazing. I also like the fact this screen can deal with some ambient light, which is nice if watching movies during the daytime. However, for my judging this screen, I only based it on watching movies at night when the room was totally dark.


But then there are the negatives. First, the waves. I really noticed them when certain scenes with horizontal elements panned left or right. Now, to be fair, I'd bet most all pull-down non-tensioned screens will exhibit waves, so I'm not faulting the Graywolf specifically. It's just something I noticed.


Second, the sparklies. While not overly distracting, I did notice them. Of course, since this screen is retro-reflective, when you stand up and your eyes are more in the viewing cone, they tend to go away. But sitting down with a ceiling-mounted projector, they are noticeable.


Third, and the reason I'll probably get a different screen...Brightness just falls off too much for me when sitting down. When I stand up, the image looks amazing. But when I sit down, brightness just falls off too much, even in a completely dark room. While not unwatchable by any means, the image is nowhere near as good as it could be. Unfortunately, to get the image this good would mean table-mounting my projector, which just isn't a possibility. I'm also not willing to run the 4805 on High-Power mode because of the fan noise, it's just too loud.


So, I'll probably end up getting a different non retro-reflective screen in a couple months. If the image on the Graywolf from a ceiling-mounted projector was as good sitting as standing, I'd keep it, no questions asked. But the brightness falls off too much for my tastes when I sit down, as the image goes from "Wow!" to "Okay."


So anyway, that's my .02 on the Graywolf.


- LoneAspen


----------



## guitarman

I thought the 4805 tuned is 600lumens? Plus people were using ND filters to cut down the brightness and get a better black level. You need more brightness?


If you go fixed you have some choices but in a low priced non-tensioned choice, you're limited. Dalite High Power is the best but I wouldn't recommend it for the 4805. Also you said it right about waves. You don't see shadows on the screen, just notice movement on a pan. Other materials non-tensioned you'll not only notice the movement but you'll also have all the time shadows in the video. Go fixed and you'll be alright.


----------



## guitarman

"Itsdon

Again I find that curious. My Da-Lite HCMW showed no waves, ever. My Da-Lite HiPower shows no waves either. The Gray Wolf I returned (for other reasons) definitely showed waves. Perhaps it's because my PJ's (X1 & DT300) are not light cannons? Not sure why my observations/experiences differ from yours but they do. Both of my screens are the standard model "B" with no pretentioners"





mark4x4 said:


> I see that you live in San Jose, I live in San Jose myself. I was looking to purchase a Dalite screen for my Optoma H78. One of my choose was the HCMW, the other was the Video Spectra, in the Model C CSR. I wanted your opinion on the HCMW as far picture quality and build quality overall and if you have any experience with the Video Spectra material.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> This gentleman is one of the very rare few who claimed he gets zero visable waves in video with these non-tensioned screen choices. This is a huge gamble for sure, your two choices are notorious for having major wave problems.
> http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/waves.jpg
> 
> 
> Do a search the the very first HCMW screen buyers and you'll see many pictures like the one I just posted. If you want to go with one of these choices think fixed screen.
> 
> 
> Here read this one.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=473672
> 
> 
> Here's another one, he doesn't mention what screen at first but does, Video Spectra.
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=444225


----------



## Robbie E

Guitarman, I returned my Graywolf, because I thought it was too dim as well. And when compared to my beige (now flat white) wall, it was considerably darker, I am sure it was because of the limited viewing angle since my projector was pretty much on the ground. I could also see a few annoying sparklies in my screen.


I admit it was a bargain, but I am much happier with my flat white wall which looks better when not watching a movie, because of the waves in the graywolf.


----------



## SMP01

Well, I got my 92" from PCNation. No dents, no line that I have noticed, never had a problem retracting the screen. You do need a quick, short pull for it to start to retract. In my current setup I needed a pulldown.


Projecting a completely uncalibrated Sanyo Z3, table mounted. So far so good. A few months ago I borrowed BenQ6100 projected onto blackout cloth. This is a big step up from that. Biggest improvement was I can now watch with a fair bit of daylight in my room (lots of windows) I had purchaced this thinking this was an afterdark hobby, a conssesion I was willing to make vs getting a RPTV. I was pleased to see I can at least watch it during the day, although much better at night. The blackout cloth was a complete washout with any kind of daylight. And as everyone has eluded to, the blacks are darker. I do need to calibrate still.



The viewing cone does brighten up in the center, but not that bad outside of it. I'm not sure if this is worse if ceiling mounted. That is, is the side view worse depending on table/ceiling mount? We know that brightness drops at the center line depending on mount position. I will likely rig up a ceiling mount some time and do some tests, but that will be a few weeks.


I have DVE waiting to calibrate, but we have guests arriving this weekend so that may have to wait.


As a first time projector owner, I am please with this screen. For me, the small investment is very much worth it over the blackout cloth solution. I cannot comment on other screen materials though.


Steve


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark4x4* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see that you live in San Jose, I live in San Jose myself. I was looking to purchase a Dalite screen for my Optoma H78. One of my choose was the HCMW, the other was the Video Spectra, in the Model C CSR. I wanted your opinion on the HCMW as far picture quality and build quality overall and if you have any experience with the Video Spectra material.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mark



Mark, What part of San Jose are you? I'm in Cambrian. Anyway, to answer your question(s) here's my quick 'n dirty view on the HCMW vs. Gray Wolf vs. Hi Power. I first must let you know that I'm using what some folks call a 'dim' projector (Sharp DT-300) that's rated at 700 ansi lumens. I've owned an Infocus X1 and an Infocus 4805 and it is brighter than either of those for what it's worth. Others may dispute this because of the artificial numbers flying around but I've owned all three and the Sharp is the brightest. It's also ceiling mounted at around 88".


Of the three screens mentioned, quality/build of the Da-Lite isn't just a little better, it's a lot better than the Gray Wolf. The case is a thicker, sturdier material and the internal mechanics are much smoother. It feels like a high quality piece vs. the Optoma. Casing aside let's move to the screen material itself which is really what matters. There's not much more I can write about the Gray Wolf that hasn't already been written. The screen I had was a perfect factory fresh unit that I picked up from the factory so there was no Fedex abuse. It was the first screen I had seen that displayed waves when any video showing scrolling text or side motion video was shown and it was an eye opener. Standing to the side of the screen and peering from left to right (and right to left) the waves in the material were clearly visible. Contrary to some of the horrific photos being shown in this forum, neither my HCMW or my HiPower show ANY waves. The screens lay absolutely perfectly positively FLAT - both of them. They are standard model "B" non-tensioned units. I expect there are some screens out there that are less than perfect in this department but either I'm really lucky or the waves issue for Da-Lite screens is being overblown. How did I get lucky twice? I can't even get three stupid numbers in the lottery!










The Gray Wolf, in my opinion, is best suited for low lumen table top projectors or high lumen ceiling mounted ones. As stated before by myself and many others if you are in the cone the picture is stunning. Out of the cone is a different matter altogether. To some the picture may be acceptable (depending on their individual PJ setups) but to others, myself included, the combination of the waves and the severe drop in brightness out of the cone is enough to return it.


The HCMW was my screen before the Gray Wolf but when I got the new projector it didn't play nice with the screen. I was getting some slight moire patterns in the lighter scenes that baffled myself and both Sharp and Da-Lite tech support folks. It was this unfixable anomaly that led me to search out and buy the HiPower. Had it not been for that issue I would still be using it as the picture (color, brightness, lack of waves and viewing angles) was dead on perfect.


The HiPower is an amazing product. The screen material is thick and silky with a theaterlike shimmer to it. With it's stated 2.8 gain in the cone it would be well suited for any low lumen projector either ceiling mounted or table mounted, you would simply need to run your PJ in hi or low lamp mode depending your application. The picture for me is a bit brighter than the HCMW which was a 1.1 gain screen - I'm guessing I'm at about 1.2 or 1.3 because, again it's retro reflective and I'm out of the cone. I don't have any official test equipment in this area, just my eyes. My initial big concern about losing the black level proved unfounded. Yeah, it's not Gray Wolf dark but it's still really good, as good as the HCMW in my opinion. If I stand up the picture is super bright, so much so that I'd have to run the PJ in low lamp mode. As it is, with the PJ in high lamp mode, it makes as much noise as the 4805 but puts out a much sharper picture and I don't have the moire issue that plagued the HCMW.


OK so my quick 'n dirty turned into a long winded spiel but I wanted to be clear about what to expect if you were to compare this same hodge podge of projectors and screens that I did. Quality wise the Da-Lite is top notch. Image wise if you have the proper match of lumens, coneage (I made that word up!) seating and don't mind the slight quality issues then the Gray Wolf is a bargain. There's nothing else on the market like it and the only way to know if it's right for you is to try it. I've never seen or used the Video Spectra but would expect the build quality to rival other Da-Lite products. Perhaps someone here who has one can provide you with that review.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Robbie E* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guitarman, I returned my Graywolf, because I thought it was too dim as well. And when compared to my beige (now flat white) wall, it was considerably darker, I am sure it was because of the limited viewing angle since my projector was pretty much on the ground. I could also see a few annoying sparklies in my screen.
> 
> 
> I admit it was a bargain, but I am much happier with my flat white wall which looks better when not watching a movie, because of the waves in the graywolf.




The Dim part seems odd for the Movie time because the one I tested was 850lumens.


Here's an example. For HT and nirvana black SMPTE reference is 12fl off the screen.


Lets say the Graywolf with your setup was 1.0gain that puts you at 27fl off the screen. Which is far off reference. Being so high you lose blacks and wash out a good amount.


----------



## Robbie E

If the gain was 1.0 then wouldn't the beige wall be darker than the Graywolf? The wall was actually considerably darker, and the matte white wall now is much brighter than the graywolf.


I should have listened to your original suggestion and purchased a dalite matte white screen.


----------



## Bajajim

How do you figure what is "in the cone"? I will be using a panny 700, on a shelf about 4' high onto a 106' Graywolf - the room is 12' x 18'. I assume that if I'm seated near the PJ I'll be in the cone, but how far out does the cone extend?


----------



## guitarman

If you get anywhere in the vicinity of the projector the brightness shoots up. Looks like you'll be 1ft away so the image s/b nice and bright.


----------



## brm

I posted this in the PJ TX100 thread and got no response, so I'll try here: Has anyone tried the Greywolf with the TX100? How did it look? Alternatively, any speculation as to their compatibility by someone who can hazard an educated guess?


----------



## clamrade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "I'll try the H30 out tonight. My guess is yes,"
> 
> 
> Verdict is yes the Graywolf matches nicely with the Optoma H30. Just like I thought deeper color, deeper blacks, still plenty bright in econo with 600hrs on the bulb. Man I forgot how great the H30 is. Very nice color and details in the blacks, low SD factor and very clean and sharp. No wonder this PJ was voted best deal budget buy.
> 
> enjoy




Guitarman---


Thanks to you, I bought an H30 last year and have enjoyed every moment of it. Now, thanks to you again, I think I'll buy the Graywolf 96", but I have the H30 mounted 9 feet above floor. The center of the screen will be 5' 8" above floor, ~11ft from the H30. I'm kinda worried that the gain will drop off too much in this configuration. Or should I go with a High Power? What do you think? Thanks again for all your help. You have been like a lighthouse for a poor newbie in rough waters.


----------



## steinre1

I will be swapping out my graywolf for another at BestBuy tomorrow. I hope the waves are not as horrific as the one I have now...I will update tomorrow - hopefully my current one is just a bad one...


----------



## non-ricer

anybody use a ceiling mounted benq pb6100 with this or have thought on it?? thnx!


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will be swapping out my graywolf for another at BestBuy tomorrow. I hope the waves are not as horrific as the one I have now...I will update tomorrow - hopefully my current one is just a bad one...




I swapped out my graywolf for another one at the local BB. The new one has no dents and the plastic was a non-issue. Unfortunately, the waves only appear to be marginally better. Bummer.


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't had any problems retracting my screen, here is the procedure I use.
> 
> 
> My screen is ceiling mounted and the screen is extended completely.
> 
> 
> I place my hands on the bottom bar about 1 1/2 feet on each side of the center of the bar. I then move the bottom of the screen toward me (about 1 foot from hanging vertical), gently pull down and then push gently upward on the screen as it rises. This works for me 99.5% of the time. I'm 6' tall so I have no problem holding onto the screen and 'helping' it retract for the full retraction.
> 
> 
> Randy



Excellent advice. I tried this tonight and it worked like a charm. Thanks!


----------



## romanesq

Just ordered a Graywolf from PC Nation and have one question for anyone who is up to it. I have the AE700 sitting horizontal about a foot and a half on a shelf 12 feet to a Dalite HCMW 92" screen.


So when the new 106" screen comes, will I need to completely center the Panny AE700 on the shelf behind the couch.


Also, after a year with the AE700, and months with the B&W filter, I removed that and made some mods to the Normal mode and it's much better now, especially for sports.


Anyone have any comment on the placement for the AE700 with the Graywolf? Currently it sits 5 feet high, several feet from eye height on a stand and off to the right side behind the couch.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clamrade* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guitarman---
> 
> 
> Thanks to you, I bought an H30 last year and have enjoyed every moment of it. Now, thanks to you again, I think I'll buy the Graywolf 96", but I have the H30 mounted 9 feet above floor. The center of the screen will be 5' 8" above floor, ~11ft from the H30. I'm kinda worried that the gain will drop off too much in this configuration. Or should I go with a High Power? What do you think? Thanks again for all your help. You have been like a lighthouse for a poor newbie in rough waters.



The H30 is about 385lumens tuned down to D65k. Not super bright but bright but decent. Ceiling mounted the Graywolf gain will be around .09 half of the 1.8 shelf mount gain. That put you at a little less than 10ft lumens off the screen. If you're looking for a brighter image and retro relect the High Power and ceiling mounted PJ will give you that.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *romanesq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just ordered a Graywolf from PC Nation and have one question for anyone who is up to it. I have the AE700 sitting horizontal about a foot and a half on a shelf 12 feet to a Dalite HCMW 92" screen.
> 
> 
> So when the new 106" screen comes, will I need to completely center the Panny AE700 on the shelf behind the couch.
> 
> 
> Also, after a year with the AE700, and months with the B&W filter, I removed that and made some mods to the Normal mode and it's much better now, especially for sports.
> 
> 
> Anyone have any comment on the placement for the AE700 with the Graywolf? Currently it sits 5 feet high, several feet from eye height on a stand and off to the right side behind the couch.



Can you lower the Pany down so it just skims off the back of your head? You'll get most of the gain this way.


----------



## romanesq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you lower the Pany down so it just skims off the back of your head? You'll get most of the gain this way.



I can certainly do that. I would just move that Italian 6 shelf stand toward the middle of the couch and bring it down from the top shelf to the 5th shelf. At that point, the AE700 would be whistling right above my head by less than a foot.


Will it make that much of a difference? We're talking no more than a couple of feet in the placement of the projector. Currently, I've been using the horizontal shift to set up the stand over the right seat and that has been providing an excellent picture with no quality loss at all.


Thanks much for your suggestion.


----------



## guitarman

It should make a huge difference. But it looks like you have easy options, first try it as is. See what the brightness difference is when you stand up closer to the lens.


----------



## romanesq

PC Nation just called me as I had left a note with customer service requesting that the shipment be checked first that it says Graywolf on the box. They said no way for them to know as it is shipped from a different location. Also said that they delayed the shipment to ask me about this.


Do I have anything to worry about when this delivery comes? They said it may come Friday (3 day PC Nation Shipping) but I'll know better with tracking tomorrow.


Wonder if I'll be watching the Yankees-Red Sox in HD on the new 106" screen?


Oh ye screen gods, pretty please.


----------



## wad06

Guitarman (and others),


I've been following this thread very closely, and I'm on the verge of making a decision. But I have one last question.


I have an NEC LT240k that will likely fall victim to the upgrade bug in the next year (panasonic ae900). My setup requires a pull-down screen. There is some ambient light in the room. The projector is currently housed in a custom made table (about two feet below eye level).


I have seen written over and over that, for a $130 screen, the Graywolf is amazing. There seem to be some quality control issues, but that looks like it can be worked out with a couple of returns. What would you say to a buyer where price was not the most important factor. If I'm willing to pay up to $800 on a screen, is the Graywolf a good option?


In other words, I don't need to pay that much, but I am willing to for a great picture. How does the GrayWolf measure up (independant of price) to other ambient light oriented screens?


By the way, I have a somewhat unrelated question. I've been told that eye level should be 1/3 the way up the screen. Given that, it seems that the NEC LT240K would be impossible to be a table-top projector without some leaning and adjusting (or a really short table). The math won't allow it. Why would NEC do this?


Thanks,

Wad


----------



## wahchile

I got my graywolf yesterday from buy.com. I decided to take my chances because their website looked like it was updated and i thought I would get the right screen, which I did (thankfully)







In fact, there is not one dent or ding on the box or the screen itself- it's perfect. I see that many people say that a ceiling mounted projector with this screen isn't ideal. My projector will be mounted on a soffit above my head at maybe 5' off the floor or so. Isn't this basically the same height as a table mounted projector would sit at? I don't want to lose too much gain with my H77, but I don't see much difference in the elevation between table top and ceiling mounted. Any opinions?

thanks


----------



## Brajesh

You'll be fine wahchile. My projector is also ceiling mounted about 5-6' from the floor & the PQ on the Greaywolf from my sofa is just fine.


----------



## Sam Samuelian

I saw today that CompUSA (who has the great deal on the Movietime that includes a full home theater package for the regular price of the projector) had on their floor a pile of Panoview screens in the 84 inch size, pulldown, matte white. Priced at $129 each.


You would think they would have the Movietime on display by now, but they only had a business style Optoma and a couple other projectors.


At least at the store there will be no confusing the Graywolf with the white matte!

Sam


----------



## nonstatic

i decided to take the plunge and my 92" arrived today from buy.com. small dent in the case but it's completely unnoticable where it is mounted.



i've got a hitachi home-1 mounted upside down on a shelf just a foot above my head, so i think i'm taking most of the gain benefit. in fact, the image looks exactly the same when standing up vs. sitting down. however i find the cone to be very tight when moving side to side (the projector is about 9.5ft away from the screen so i'm not sure if that tightens the angle). even moving 3 feet to the side will make the image noticably dimmer. i will have to see if guests complain when they check it out.


i have to keep my image around 90" or else my SDE gets too annoying. the waves i can see at the side of the screen are not noticable at all while viewing content.


where this screen helps most for me is contrast/blacks. i put in the night scene of _crouching tiger, hidden dragon_ where the sword is first stolen. i've always had serious problems seeing things in this scene even back when i was only projecting a 53" image. so here is where i have to say the obligatory WOW. FINALLY i can see people's faces clearly in dark scenes. and when they are wearing dark clothing it doesn't end up looking like a solid shade anymore. perhaps i'm seeing some of the retro-reflective surface in action as my apartment has the all-white walls/ceiling complex.


mind you, i first watched that scene with some ambient light coming from two different places and it already looked better than in pitch black on the plain wall! i have to say i'm very pleased.


for me the improved contrast on my 800:1 (540:1 calibrated according to secrets) projector makes this a very worthy and cheap upgrade!


----------



## romanesq

Just got the screen from PC Nation and thank heavens it was the Graywolf and was labeled so on the box. Anyway, got it on a two day delivery via Fedex. The box did not appear brutalized at all and upon opening the white case looked fine.


Mounted it and replaced a Dalite 92" HCMW. First thing well, 106" is a nice increase in the real estate but more importantly daytime viewing is really an option now in a room with imperfect light control, hey it's my living room with three large windows and a side area kitchen with a skylight no less.


Saw the nice boost and the dimming off axis but since this is really straight on, not an issue from a three seat couch. Found out the horizontal setup is still possible as well and that's quite a nice surprise. The excellent reflective properties are preserved from the horizontal position by just moving the AE700 from the top 5 foot shelf to the 4 foot shelf.


For the money, this is pretty much a scream. Even 4:3 movie material not in HD looks fine.

The HD is of course more dynamic.


What's so impressive with this is the pop is a real boost in the daytime. I'll have to do some calibrating here and there but it seems like a very nice boost but not overdone at all. It's just quite nice.


Thanks to Guitarman and all the other posters who shared their experiences here.


----------



## guitarman

I'm glad it's working out for many LCD projector users. A couple didn't like it but looks like the majority does. I've been saying the pluses out weigh the minuses for sure.

enjoy


----------



## romanesq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm glad it's working out for many LCD projector users. A couple didn't like it but looks like the majority does. I've been saying the pluses out weigh the minuses for sure.
> 
> enjoy



Well the new screen is so impressive in daylight, I was curious about night time results. Definitely very dynamic and although I didn't think it was an issue, watching the NY Mets in their last homestand of the year, you can really see how deeper black the uniforms are and distinguish the player's uniform at home plate from the umpire's dark blue.


Had previously used the filter everyone was talking about, but that's not going to happen now. Did put the lens up but it was not a positive. There's plenty of contrast improvement and I would dare say an improvement along the lines of a new projector. Colors are more vibrant and the grass at Shea Stadium is a bit scary.


Based on Guitarman's recommendation, I did move the Panny AE700 to a lower shelf so it still can be situated from the optimum horizontal position but now lower and the cone is well within all three seating positions. But I can understand how people would not be thrilled if they had the outside the cone picture as their is a very strong dimming affect. It's clear that for many folks, ceiling mounting will not provide the optimum results this screen is designed to produce. (In fact I really don't know how a ceiling mount will permit the reflective benefit.)


It's really an impressive improvement across the board. Would describe it as a combination of plasma rich colors with a film quality. This graywolf screen loves quality HD material. Watching HBO's series Rome is absolutely stunning. It's not only a beautiful picture, it's so smooth I kept looking for some flaw but couldn't find any. Pretty darn good.










Anyone need a Dalite Model B CSR 92"?


----------



## cant wait

I am thinking of getting this screen and the h31. The projector will be ceiling mounted. The room is 20 feet long 14 feet wide with 9 foot ceilings Planning on a 92 inch screen Seating approx 13 feet away. Light controled room. How well will this screen work or would a diy screen work better? Larger viewing cone??? What has a wider viewing cone Black out cloth or painted screen


----------



## guitarman

You'll be at a near 12.8ftl off the screen which is reference levels. Down the road when the bulb ages you could opt for brightness mode and when the bulb wears out just buy a new one. With your 92" screen looks like this will work for you.


----------



## guitarman

"Watching HBO's series Rome is absolutely stunning"


You know it brother and especially the opening collage.


----------



## ForzaMilan




romanesq said:


> Based on Guitarman's recommendation, I did move the Panny AE700 to a lower shelf so it still can be situated from the optimum horizontal position
> 
> 
> Thx for the info; I have a panny also, it is ceiling mounted 13" from the ceiling and I'm thinking of getting the 106 gray wolf; I'd be seating aprox 13.5' from the screen and the top of the screen would be parallel to the projector. would I benefit from this screen or not?


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem

Hmm - really thinking of buying a screen now that I got a tip from a guy who sells them to sweden.

I own a Sony HS-50 and have tested toward a Stewart Firehawk but I thought the FH brought down the whites and colours a bit to much. Whites turned a bit grey (though a lot better than normal grey screens) and colours went quite dark even after calibration IMO.


Though i think i will not benefit from the GreyWolf gain due to my pj positioning that from the floor is positioned at:


- PJ Height: 2,6m

- PJ to Screen distance: 5,5m

- Viewer to Screen distance: 4m

- Head to floor distance: 0.8-0,9m

- Screen centrum (from floor): 1,55m


So basically the reflection angle is 10,8 degress from being angular, but i dont know if that is too much with regards to the viewing cone?

Anyone know the specs for it?


Regards

Boogieman


----------



## guitarman

Hey Boogyman







HS50, any way you can aim the screen at the projector you're going to pick up some nice gain level. Go for it. I'd give the cone a 2ft leeway and you'll be smoking.


----------



## romanesq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Watching HBO's series Rome is absolutely stunning"
> 
> 
> You know it brother and especially the opening collage.



I didn't see the opening collage but just seeing additional HD material at night, you would swear the AE700 is not the same projector. The contrast is so improved it blows away the filter approach so many thought was a great improvement. (I find it to be more like wearing amber sunglasses indoors now.) Also, sports in HD, especially at 1080i is mesmerizing.


Let me say something again on this Graywolf. If you can mount your projector on a tabletop there's little question you should benefit from this screen. It's worth every cent and then some, but as for the geometry of a ceiling mount, that's tricky.


I would suggest anyone with the capability to mount their projector near eye level on a table top or rear shelf to go right ahead and try this screen. The results are just too good and the price is too cheap not to give it a try. And at PC Nation, I not only got a great price but FREE 2-3 day shipping.


----------



## kiwa

just recieved mine today from pc nation,gonna put it up tomorrow with my opotoma h31 and see how it compares to my white wall. it is well packaged,no dent no scratch, white case.on the package it says graywolf 1.8, i have good feeling about this


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Boogyman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HS50, any way you can aim the screen at the projector you're going to pick up some nice gain level. Go for it. I'd give the cone a 2ft leeway and you'll be smoking.



My idea was to buy the 106" GW screen - rip out the screen material (since the casette seems like crap anyway) and frame mount it (easy as 1,2,3 to build a solid screen black velour frame with 45 degre inclination edges).


That means i have to put the lower edge of the screen about 1dm further out from the wall and that will for once look silly and secondly it wont help me on the viewing cone side since the only thing i will be doing is making things worse aiming the screen at the PJ (since the retroreflective surface will bounce the light right back at the PJ and even less light will "bounce" towards the seting position).


If I should take optomas word for it the viewing angle is 100degress (really doesnt sound like it on the discussion going here - maybe you can see the picture at +-50 degrees but certainly the image will darken if i interpret you correctly.


Since the angle between the PJ and the viewing seat in my case will be 22 degrees it sounds like it shouldnt be a problem unless the vertical viewing angle is MUCH worse than the horisontal one (which i understand it is on the comments here).


The last problem is that the screen is about 10cm to small horisontally.

Today I have a 240cm (94,5") wide screen and it is about 5 cm to small to capture the entire picture of the HS50 and i cant move the PJ forward due to ceiling ornaments







so im kinda stuck unless i move the screen some cms out from the wall and hang it in the ceiling but then i cant frame it.


Argh :-S waht to do.

I wish i could just buy the materuial in custom size or at least a bigger screen o that i could rip it apart and fit the needs - that would be great.


Wonder if there is anyone in sweden close to malmoe that owns a GW - would be interesting to se the performance of it.


Link to pdf i am talking about with viewing angle aso.
http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/d..._DS92106PM.pdf 


Regards

Boogieman


----------



## KramerTC

Boogiem,


Yes, the vertical angle is much smaller than the horizontal one. Check the beginning of this thread and another review thread started by Ken Land. If your projector is dim (as was mine) and you're ceiling mounting this screen may not for you.


----------



## johnhenry

I have one (Greywolf) in perfect condition and will let go for low. Minimum wave and no plastic marks. I love the black and depth, but have to go with hipower since my SHARP DT-300 is a low lumine PJ. Also have the Parkland screen for local pickup. email me if interested, [email protected]


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnhenry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have one (Greywolf) in perfect condition and will let go for low. Minimum wave and no plastic marks. I love the black and depth, but have to go with hipower since my SHARP DT-300 is a low lumine PJ. Also have the Parkland screen for local pickup. email me if interested, [email protected]



You are making the right move. I'm only a month or two ahead of you and did the exact same thing. I paired the Graywolf with my ceiling mounted DT-300 and found the results completely unacceptable. After much research I purchased the Hi Power from Jason at AVS and it made a world of difference. Sure there is a slight brightness drop while sitting but nothing like what I experienced with the Graywolf. I have to run my PJ at full lamp mode (not eco) but the resulting picture is just great. Good luck.


----------



## johnhenry




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are making the right move. I'm only a month or two ahead of you and did the exact same thing. I paired the Graywolf with my ceiling mounted DT-300 and found the results completely unacceptable. After much research I purchased the Hi Power from Jason at AVS and it made a world of difference. Sure there is a slight brightness drop while sitting but nothing like what I experienced with the Graywolf. I have to run my PJ at full lamp mode (not eco) but the resulting picture is just great. Good luck.



Great !


What input are you using ? and your settings ? The color seems a bit off for me. Otherwise, it's a great projector.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnhenry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Great !
> 
> 
> What input are you using ? and your settings ? The color seems a bit off for me. Otherwise, it's a great projector.



I'm feeding the PJ a HDMI/DVI 720P signal from my Sony NV70 DVD player. I have color temp set to 6500 and then calibrated from there. Brightness is down a few clicks and contrast is at the factory default. I agree though - it is a nice PJ. I have only about 70 hours on mine and it's been wonderful. I like that it has sealed optics (no filter cleaning - just vacuum it out!), a lens shift and 4000 hour lamp life. Good luck.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnhenry* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have one (Greywolf) in perfect condition and will let go for low. Minimum wave and no plastic marks. I love the black and depth, but have to go with hipower since my SHARP DT-300 is a low lumine PJ. Also have the Parkland screen for local pickup. email me if interested, [email protected]




I have the DT-300 and a Greywolf 106" screen and the picture is fantastic. This just shows the difference between ceiling mounted and shelve mounted. My projector is mounted on a shelf with the center of the lens 47" from the floor and my eye level when seated is 36". Great blacks, depth and bright colors.


----------



## CraigW

I am also a DT300 user. I am currently finishing the room and I have purchased a 92" Graywolf so I am a little concerned.


Itsdon and johnhenry, what were the specifics of your setup? (Ceiling mounted, height of lens from floor, height of viewers eyes, Throw distance)


I am going to ceiling mount but use a drop of an additional 3" so my projector lens will be at a height of 6'8". Also I am going to use the lens shift so the image is projected slightly upwards (ie. the top of the image will be higher than the center of lens). The setup will be close to the maximum projection distance for a 92" screen and the 1st row viewers will be about 3' behind the PJ and the second row will be about 7' behind but will be seated 9" higher.


I know the DT-300 is not a light cannon, but is it truely a low lumen PJ. The bulb is 210W/168W. Is the optical path poorly designed that it is not very efficient?


I would also like to know were users expecting a Plasma look 40-50ftL. Is the DT-300 under 12ftL in low power mode with the Graywolf?


By my calculations in low power mode (80% of 700Lumens = 560 Lumens, take away another 30%, based on over stated specs = 392 Lumens) 392Lumens/25sq ft = 16 ftL.


Even if the viewers did not benefit from the gain characteristics of the screen the viewer would get roughly a brightness level of 16ftL. Or is the dropoff so drastic that the viewer would get lower than unity gain while seated.


----------



## Itsdon

CraigW


My DT-300 is ceiling mounted with the lens at 88". My PJ is mounted 9' back of the screen which is also ceiling mounted. I sit about 5' behind my PJ with my eyes at about the 44" mark. With that configuration the Graywolf was horrible with most of the brightness disappearing while seated even with the PJ in Hi Mode. By contrast the same projector in low mode produced a wonderful picture on my HCMW screen. That screen had a moire effect when used with the Sharp so it got sold. The Hi Power screen produces a very nice image when the PJ is in Hi Power.


Here are my thoughts on why this is. I had a 4805 PJ to compare the Sharp to and the Sharp was a brighter machine yet the 4805 produced a better image on these screens. The reason is that the 4805 was mounted above my head. Retro reflective screens, as you know, reflect light back towards the source. Since the source (DT-300) is now several feet in front of me (instead of above me) more of the brightness is lost because I'm now further from the source. It's a short throw/long throw issue here. Mated to the correct screen the DT-300 is a dynamite PJ.


I figure I'm at about 1.1 gain from my HiPower although I have no professional equipment to verify this, just my eyes.


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You are making the right move. I'm only a month or two ahead of you and did the exact same thing. I paired the Graywolf with my ceiling mounted DT-300 and found the results completely unacceptable. After much research I purchased the Hi Power from Jason at AVS and it made a world of difference. Sure there is a slight brightness drop while sitting but nothing like what I experienced with the Graywolf. I have to run my PJ at full lamp mode (not eco) but the resulting picture is just great. Good luck.



I am very surprised so many people like the Hi Power so much. I couldn't stand how everything looked neon, out of whack, and with blacks that looked more like grays...by a lot. I preferred blackout cloth, or parkland plastic to the hi power by a wide margin in my setup - due to the factors listed a moment before. I had really high expectations for it, but the sample didn't do it for me at all, in ambient light or in darkness. Hmmm.


I'm not bashing the Hi Power, I'm sure it works well for most. But, I just wanted to play devil's advocate and let our dear readers know that not everyone loves the HP.










BTW - my setup is a Tosh MT700 (with a working bulb...for now) ceiling mounted throwing a 106" image, with the viewer directly below the PJ on the couch.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am very surprised so many people like the Hi Power so much. I couldn't stand how everything looked neon, out of whack, and with blacks that looked more like grays...by a lot. I preferred blackout cloth, or parkland plastic to the hi power by a wide margin in my setup - due to the factors listed a moment before. I had really high expectations for it, but the sample didn't do it for me at all, in ambient light or in darkness. Hmmm.
> 
> 
> I'm not bashing the Hi Power, I'm sure it works well for most. But, I just wanted to play devil's advocate and let our dear readers know that not everyone loves the HP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW - my setup is a Tosh MT700 (with a working bulb...for now) ceiling mounted throwing a 106" image, with the viewer directly below the PJ on the couch.



Did you base this on an actual HP screen or on just the 12" square sample they send out? Just curious.


----------



## A2D

I am very happy with Graywolf paired with my table mount DT 300. I have to slightly tune down the light output after calibration using AVIA in low lamp mode. Not sure where are the numbers of "low lumen" come from. Anyway, DT300 is brighter than my 1000lumen Epson Home10 LCD.


----------



## Si/TO

Hi Tom/guitarman:

I plan to buy the Optoma H78 and have it ceiling mounted 16.5 ft away from the Graywolf (Gray, 106") screen, 30" above floor. Will the picture be bright enough for movies in normal mode or I should get a matte white instead?

The size of my room is 20' x 12'(wide)x 8'(high).Light is controlled and I will be sitting 12' away.

Thanks for your help. I have learned a lot from you. I am resolving to have this combination but I just need you to confirm one more time.

Si


----------



## ggavigli




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Si/TO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Tom/guitarman:
> 
> I plan to buy the Optoma H78 and have it ceiling mounted 16.5 ft away from the Graywolf (Gray, 106") screen, 30" above floor. Will the picture be bright enough for movies in normal mode or I should get a matte white instead?
> 
> The size of my room is 20' x 12'(wide)x 8'(high).Light is controlled and I will be sitting 12' away.
> 
> Thanks for your help. I have learned a lot from you. I am resolving to have this combination but I just need you to confirm one more time.
> 
> Si



I have an H78 paired with the Greywolf and brightness is not an issue. I have an even greater angle between the PJ and the sitting position than you do but I'm only generating an 88" screen. (PJ ceiling mounted 10 feet back and sitting position is 10' back)


The only thing I wonder is if retro-reflective screens reduce sharpness/resolution? Does the H78 with the smaller distance between the mirrors really need a Graywolf? I know it helped the H77 I had a lot.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Si/TO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Tom/guitarman:
> 
> I plan to buy the Optoma H78 and have it ceiling mounted 16.5 ft away from the Graywolf (Gray, 106") screen, 30" above floor. Will the picture be bright enough for movies in normal mode or I should get a matte white instead?
> 
> The size of my room is 20' x 12'(wide)x 8'(high).Light is controlled and I will be sitting 12' away.
> 
> Thanks for your help. I have learned a lot from you. I am resolving to have this combination but I just need you to confirm one more time.
> 
> Si



The Graywolf will be a good match with your setup. Mat White won't help the H78 like the Graywolf will.


----------



## guitarman

"I am very happy with Graywolf paired with my table mount DT 300"


That's the ticket. Table mounted with the DT300, lets say the DT300 is 300 lumens when tuned in econo. Add the 1.8 gain with your setup and your at 524 lumens, plenty bright. Almost at bright as the H79 in econo.


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you base this on an actual HP screen or on just the 12" square sample they send out? Just curious.



It was just the 12" square sample. One contributing factor could be that the ambient light in my room comes from a window at the far rear of the room which is directly opposite the screen. So in order of height it goes floor->eyes->window->projector->ceiling at various distance in a straight line. I'm thinking that the angle of the incoming window light reflected at maximum gain to my

eyes and that probably hurt it in ambient light situations. That said, I still found the black level to be lacking in a dark room as well.


Everyone's setup is different so it could just be something peculiar about mine or my tastes. I did have my thoughts checked by two friends into A/V & HT stuff and they also didn't like the HP. Note, that was after me telling them I didn't like it to begin with, but they were the kind of people who would disagree with me no problem.


Also - if you are more curious about accurate distances and such check the link in my sig to my webshots.


As an additional side note - I have my quibbles with the Graywolf as well. I haven't found that *perfect* screen just yet, but because of the price & overall performance in my HT the GW is going to stay for awhile.


----------



## Zyll

I'm planning on getting a Sanyo Z4 and a new (larger) screen to go with it. I'm a little confused about whether the graywolf would work well with my high-mounted PJ. The PJ is about 4-5' above the viewers heads, but since it is about 16' away from the screen the angle (at the screen) between the lens and the viewer is about 15-18 degrees. This seems to be in the range that would work? Or would I be better off sticking with a HCMW screen?


Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was just the 12" square sample. One contributing factor could be that the ambient light in my room comes from a window at the far rear of the room which is directly opposite the screen. So in order of height it goes floor->eyes->window->projector->ceiling at various distance in a straight line. I'm thinking that the angle of the incoming window light reflected at maximum gain to my
> 
> eyes and that probably hurt it in ambient light situations. That said, I still found the black level to be lacking in a dark room as well.
> 
> 
> Everyone's setup is different so it could just be something peculiar about mine or my tastes. I did have my thoughts checked by two friends into A/V & HT stuff and they also didn't like the HP. Note, that was after me telling them I didn't like it to begin with, but they were the kind of people who would disagree with me no problem.
> 
> 
> Also - if you are more curious about accurate distances and such check the link in my sig to my webshots.
> 
> 
> As an additional side note - I have my quibbles with the Graywolf as well. I haven't found that *perfect* screen just yet, but because of the price & overall performance in my HT the GW is going to stay for awhile.



I was very concerned about losing my blacks also. I only had the sample and they didn't look too good. After reading many posts here and speaking with Jason I was feeling confident enough in it that I ordered it. The sample does not do it justice (they actually are probably losing sales because of the sample) sure my blacks aren't 'black' but they aren't bad. Colors are simply delicious and everything is super sharp. If Da-Lite ever makes a HiPower Graywolf







I'll be all over it!


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zyll* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm planning on getting a Sanyo Z4 and a new (larger) screen to go with it. I'm a little confused about whether the graywolf would work well with my high-mounted PJ. The PJ is about 4-5' above the viewers heads, but since it is about 16' away from the screen the angle (at the screen) between the lens and the viewer is about 15-18 degrees. This seems to be in the range that would work? Or would I be better off sticking with a HCMW screen?
> 
> 
> Thanks for any advice.



If you have any projector that has decent lumens levels and ceiling mount you'll benefit greatly from the Graywolf. If you have a not so bright projector you'll benefit with the Graywolf with a shelf mount.


The key features being the best blacks and more vivid colors vs the the best blacks/ vivid colors and added brightness.


Is the Z4 a dim projector? I don't think so. Anything approaching 400 tuned lumens is plenty bright these daysl.


----------



## MikeSRC

A little update on my GreyWolf:


I've had a 92" GW for a month and a half now and have enjoyed the brighter picture and deeper blacks. Having the screen surface appear in bright (or white) scenes is not a plus, but it can be overlooked for the other benefits. It also has developed some waves that it didn't have initially.


My case had a big dent in it, but it didn't affect operation and I'm planning on covering it up anyway. However, the black coating on the border (at the top right corner where it meets the screen surface) started to flake of a little, so I decided I'd return the screen to my distributor and get a new one. They actually shipped the new one immediately, so I got it before they came with the call tag for the old one. I was disappointed to find that the new one not only had more dents, but also the plastic was stuck to the screen and created the "line" about a foot down that others have experienced.


I wound up putting my old screen back up and sending the new one back. I still like this screen, but it would do much better as a fixed screen. I would rather that Optoma raise the price and do a better job of QC and packaging. This has to be a losing proposition for them and their resellers with the rate of return as it is. I'd hate to see them discontinue it because no one's making any money off the sales.


On a side note, I have a new Panasonic AE900 in house right now and it's a great match with the GW. Because the AE900 lines up with the center of the screen (in default lens shift position), it doesn't end up far from the viewer when mounted. It's also extremely quiet, so it's not a problem to have it close. This plays to the strength of the GW, since it looks best close to the projector.


----------



## mystery

Mike,


Sounds like the AE900 would be a terrific match for the High Power. How do you compare this projector with some of the more popular DLP units?


Wayne


----------



## guitarman

How close can the Pany get to the 92" screen?


----------



## Kadath

How much leeway is there with the 106" as far as amount of 'black' above the grey that allows you to roll it lower to the ground? On one hand I need to keep my bottom above the top of my speakers, on the other hand I dont want to be constantly looking up at the screen.


----------



## guitarman

There's about a foot of black at the top.


----------



## Kadath

Awesome. Thanks. Oh and hey, I noticed the users manual is actually on the Optoma site as well, it shows how easy it is to hang this from a ceiling using 'eye' style hooks screwed into a stud. Sweet!


Sam


----------



## cant wait

If I ceiling mount my h31 9 Foot ceiling. use the 92" screen seating 12 feet away how wide would the ideal viewing cone be my room is about 15 feet wide.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How close can the Pany get to the 92" screen?



Pretty close, about 9'.


----------



## Senator

This might sound strange, but has anyone cut the screen material from the roll down screen, and attached it to a fixed frame to add tension and prevent waves?


What were the results like, better, worse?


Would less rolling up / down also help with waves?


Does leaving a screen rolled down 99% of the time have any adverse effects?


Cheers


Sen


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Senator* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This might sound strange, but has anyone cut the screen material from the roll down screen, and attached it to a fixed frame to add tension and prevent waves?
> 
> 
> What were the results like, better, worse?
> 
> 
> Would less rolling up / down also help with waves?
> 
> 
> Does leaving a screen rolled down 99% of the time have any adverse effects?
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> Sen



I have not, but that is my plan. I can't see how it would be worse. However the material doesn't stretch, so it may not work as well as we might hope.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cant wait* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I ceiling mount my h31 9 Foot ceiling. use the 92" screen seating 12 feet away how wide would the ideal viewing cone be my room is about 15 feet wide.




You don't want to view outside the sides of the screen. Maybe the best area is 4ft or 5ft towards the center.


----------



## cant wait




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You don't want to view outside the sides of the screen. Maybe the best area is 4ft or 5ft towards the center.




Are you saying only the center 5 feet of the room will have a good picture or 5 feet each side of centre??


----------



## guitarman

Center of the screen moving off 2.5 ft in either direction would be the sweet spots. It's not awful when you're at the screen border. When you're outside the screen is when the brightness drops way off plus other things, you can see the texture more.


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chengka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not, but that is my plan. I can't see how it would be worse. However the material doesn't stretch, so it may not work as well as we might hope.



Dont worry about non stretchy (vinyl base?) material.

I have a Eusroscreen that is based on a pretty stiff vinyl based material.

It is fastened in a (weak) aluminum frame that i have supprted with a extra "shaft" in the middle of the screen (supporting bottom to top) and it works excellent eevn if the screen is 240*135 cms (exlusive the 5cm black border).

And it is fitted only with velcro. With some effort i have managed to get it allmost 99% flat (of course if you look from the side you can spot some very minor waves but not more than on std non tab tension roll down screen


My idea was to build a better aluminum frame from extrudes and mount eyelets around the screen materials outer edges (lest say one eyelet each 5") and attatch springs between the eyelets and the screen frame (or actually attatch it to some screws that i put in the frame).

This would make the screen "autostretch and keep it flat at all time.


If only greywolf came in bigger sizes or screen material only i would buy one but with my current setup i need at least a 110" screen (as my current one) but preferrably i would like 115-120" diagonal.


Good luck with the project.

Boogieman


----------



## cant wait




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Center of the screen moving off 2.5 ft in either direction would be the sweet spots. It's not awful when you're at the screen border. When you're outside the screen is when the brightness drops way off plus other things, you can see the texture more.




Thanks for the info Do you think I would be better off with a diy screen as I would like seating all the way across my room 14 feet wide

Thanks Wayne


----------



## guitarman

Yes, if you're going to have people sitting at the outsides of the screen better try something else.


----------



## steinre1

I've tried 2 graywolfs from my local bestbuys. The first had a dented case and the second that the horizontal line from the plastic. Both had pretty significant waves that were bothersome. Note that I am ceiling mounting my projector and when I stand close to the projector lense, the waves are not nearly as bad.


Anyway, a couple of the best buys near me just got new shipments in of the graywolf, so I went to today and swapped mine out. Here are the differences I noticed in the new screen:


1) The ceiling hooks were rounded instead of a pointed end. Not a big deal, but it's the first thing I noticed different.


2) There was no plastic attached to the screen at all! That's right, not just no line, but no plastic! I guess they finally figured it out.


3) The packaging was slightly different. Instead of just the 4 sets of styrofoam pieces, there were 2 hard cardboard pieces holding the screen in place. I don't know if this is an improvement or not, but my screen case was received in perfect condition.


I still have waves, but I think there's not much I can do about it...Are these changes I noticed just some minor changes in the new batch or were they made consciously? Hmmm....


----------



## steinre1

I'm not sure if I should post this in the graywolf thread, DIY, or another, but whatever...


The only thing that keeps me from enjoying my graywolf fully at the moment are the waves I see when video is panning. While the screen was down and I gently pulled on the screens side, it tightened up nicely and the waves pretty much went away. Would there be a way to rig up something to keep the screen nice and tight? I was thinking something as simple as a long, thin, light piece of wood cut the length of the screen. On the back of the screen place a little velcro on the back at the outer edge in the middle of the the screen and attach the piece of wood to give it a little tension?


Is this a dumb idea? Is there a more reasonable way to accomplish this (other than buying a fixed or tab tensioned screen







)?


Just started brainstorming today and wanted to see if anyone has ever attempted something like this with this screen or any other...


----------



## steinre1

I've done some searching on avs and found some threads talking about waves. I've gotten some ideas and will report back if anything works...


----------



## kiwa

grrrhh, the graywolf screen i got have some missing paint in 1 spot, if i sit down there's a big black spot like dead pixel on the screen when picture project on it,, but when i watch standing it's actually ok.. what should i do?...i am thinking of exchange for another, .i really like the pict quality except that missing paint..


----------



## Mgibsoj

Is it possible that use of the center pull-down slightly bends/bows the bar and causes waves? I lowered it by gently pulling on the bar with both hands about 2 feet (both sides) off center. No waves at all even during pans of crowds. There's only minimal waves at the bottom slightly visible in normal light when viewed way to the side. The screen came with the clear plastic insert at the top, but no horiz. line resulted from it. It has the rounded ceiling mounts, and arrived in perfect condition with the styrofoam packing via FedEx Ground. This screen, BTW, works miracles for the table-top X1 (but it isn't bright enough IMO to fill the whole screen, just about 80" diag.). I've spent some time working DIY screens, but they didn't come close to the performance of this low-cost wonder. The only issue is that it doesn't seem to retract - but my fear of causing a wrinkle/waves makes me think this is a good thing.


----------



## Mgibsoj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiwa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> grrrhh, the graywolf screen i got have some missing paint in 1 spot, if i sit down there's a big black spot like dead pixel on the screen when picture project on it,, but when i watch standing it's actually ok.. what should i do?...i am thinking of exchange for another, .i really like the pict quality except that missing paint..



If it will bother you in your normal viewing position, then I'd seek a remedy. I don't know what the policy on that type of defect would be though...


----------



## Patrick McGuire

Can anyone give an estimate of loss of detail from the glass beading. Is this screen less sharp than a typical matte white? Some have said SDE is less visible. Is this not an indication that the image is being slightly blurred by the glass beading?


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've done some searching on avs and found some threads talking about waves. I've gotten some ideas and will report back if anything works...




Ugh....I can't get the waves out after trying all sorts of things - I'm seriously considering making a fixed screen out of this material. I don't know what to do at the moment - I just know I can't live with the waves.


Good tip about not pulling down in the center - I have no idea if that helps or hurts things. Probably the best thing you have going for your screen in terms of waves is that you are table mounting your projector...


----------



## jbann27

Does anyone know why it is such a pain to retract this screen?


Got the screen today, set it up, it has the round hooks up top and was packed with styrofoam and cardboard. No dents in the case and the plastic was there, but there is no line visable. I have very minimal waves that can only be seen from looking at it from the side.


My only concern is that I need to retract the screen when I am done with it as my 2 year old daughter will tear it up if she gets the chance. It literally took me 15 minutes to get this thing rolled back up with constant tugging back and forth. Is this going to cause me more waves in the future or am I ok retracting it every time I am done with it? Is there a secret trick it getting it to retract in one motion? Thanks


----------



## Earz

Question for Tom....or anyone who may know..


I have a table mounted H-78 and love the GW for hi def sports in my almost bat cave theater.

I also like it a lot for average to brightly lit movies on dvd and dvhs.


My problem is with very dark movies which mostly come in the 2:35 ratio....the combo of bat cave....lots of hours on the H-78...and the dark gray screen make it impossible to see the detail in the blacks in very dark movies....and turning the brightness way up...running the 78 in bright mode and also turning the 78's gamma up are not a good way imo to fix this.


Bottom line....I need a second screen to be used for extremely dark mostly 2:35 dvd and dvhs movies....and my question is....is the hi power available in 2:35....and do you think it would work out in my situation as a second screen?

I prefer to be able to use the H-78 in low power without turning up the brightness or messing with the gamma.


I have come to the conclusion that many others have already figured out.....there is no one screen that works for everything.


----------



## SMP01

I've had my screen for about 45 days now.


I've had no problems retracting the screen, which I do after every viewing. I always do a short-quick pull down and then help it retract all the way back up.


I have a table mounted Z3 and it looks great. I also have a blackout cloth screen and the difference is there, especially for ambiant light situations. For the cost of this over DIY blackout, I would get the graywolf.


----------



## braidkid

I have the 92" in graywolf but really only need a 80" due to my seating position. Does anyone know of a way I could mask the sides and top? Is there a black spray paint or anything I could apply? I wonder how the existing masking on the border and top is done and if I could just expand upon that?


----------



## JimmyDaves

I'm in the same boat as braidkid.


----------



## jcg

Is the 106" version of the GrayWolf available at BB stores or only online? I just got a Panny AE900 and am currently use a Parkland Plastic from Home Depot as a temporary test screen. I'd like to pick up a GrayWolf to test out if possible.


jcg


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the 106" version of the GrayWolf available at BB stores or only online? I just got a Panny AE900 and am currently use a Parkland Plastic from Home Depot as a temporary test screen. I'd like to pick up a GrayWolf to test out if possible.
> 
> 
> jcg




Both. When you go online, you can enter your zip code to see what stores near you have one in stock


----------



## Rheal_Dubreuil

Guitarman,


Would this be a good screen for a ceiling mounted BenQ PB6100 DLP 800 x 600 projector?


Room is total light control and I currently use a Blackout cloth screen.


Do you think Optoma will give a sample of the screen out you know one of the little pieces the size of a sheet of paper?


Also I am not familiar with this type of screen. Would I be able to take it out of the case and put it on a existing fram by stapling it to the frame?


Thanks.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Earz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question for Tom....or anyone who may know..
> 
> 
> I have a table mounted H-78 and love the GW for hi def sports in my almost bat cave theater.
> 
> I also like it a lot for average to brightly lit movies on dvd and dvhs.
> 
> 
> My problem is with very dark movies which mostly come in the 2:35 ratio....the combo of bat cave....lots of hours on the H-78...and the dark gray screen make it impossible to see the detail in the blacks in very dark movies....and turning the brightness way up...running the 78 in bright mode and also turning the 78's gamma up are not a good way imo to fix this.
> 
> 
> Bottom line....I need a second screen to be used for extremely dark mostly 2:35 dvd and dvhs movies....and my question is....is the hi power available in 2:35....and do you think it would work out in my situation as a second screen?
> 
> I prefer to be able to use the H-78 in low power without turning up the brightness or messing with the gamma.
> 
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that many others have already figured out.....there is no one screen that works for everything.



That's surprising because you're in the cone. But if you want real bright for sure the HP will get you there. Give it a try


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rheal_Dubreuil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guitarman,
> 
> 
> Would this be a good screen for a ceiling mounted BenQ PB6100 DLP 800 x 600 projector?
> 
> 
> Room is total light control and I currently use a Blackout cloth screen.
> 
> 
> Do you think Optoma will give a sample of the screen out you know one of the little pieces the size of a sheet of paper?
> 
> 
> Also I am not familiar with this type of screen. Would I be able to take it out of the case and put it on a existing fram by stapling it to the frame?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



The Graywolf should match up well with the PB6100 and PJ ceiling mounted. You'll still be plenty bright and you'll pick up better blacks and light rejection.


For those wanting to DIY a fixed graywolf. The material doesn't stretch but if you're precise when you staple it should stay straight.


----------



## braidkid

So no one has any ideas on how to mask the graywolf?


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *braidkid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So no one has any ideas on how to mask the graywolf?



I used this stuff on my 4:3 HCMW and it worked really well. Not sure about the Gray Wolf but it's something to look into.


Search eBay for "Projection Screen Border Tape"


Tried to post a link here but it didn't work....


----------



## Kadath

My 92" is on the way.


Now just to finally bite the bullet and figure out whether I'm getting a Z3 or paying the premium for Z4 or Panasonic 900.


Sam


----------



## Rheal_Dubreuil

OK thanks Guitarman.


Rheal.


----------



## Neuromancer

Long time lerker, first time poster. guitarman and ggavigli recommended that I purchase a Graywolf screen. Right now I have an Infocus screen that came with my 4805, and I was thinking of putting the Infocus screen into another room as a backup or for when we have more guests over. The problem I have is the location I am choosing for ceiling mounting is not up against a wall.


The screen will have noticeable ripples because of uneven weight distribution and my inability to hang anything straight. Outside of making sure the screen is perferctly level, is there anything else i can do to remove any screen distortion I may run into?


Any help with this setup will also be useful for the new Graywolf because I may change my current home theater setup to open up more seating, and wall space is rapidly becoming sparse.


----------



## SMP01

I used Guitarmans tip for hanging which was great.


Use L-brackets or some other bracket fastened to ceiling or wall. Run threaded eye-bolts/hooks through the bracket. Now you can minutely adjust the level of the screen by simply turning the nut of one or both of the bolts.


----------



## Neuromancer

SMP01 -


Do you have any noticeable ripples in this setup? I have a friend who did straight ceiling mounting, and it is warped like no tomorrow. Reading credits at the end of a movie makes me feel like I am looking at waves.


Either way, I will have to try this out. Thanks for the tip.


I did a search and didn't find any information (my searching skills could be to blame, though), but is it possibile tro straighten an already warped screen? I ask this just in case I need to do some "emergency" repairs to badly mounted screen.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neuromancer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> SMP01 -
> 
> 
> Do you have any noticeable ripples in this setup? I have a friend who did straight ceiling mounting, and it is warped like no tomorrow. Reading credits at the end of a movie makes me feel like I am looking at waves.
> 
> 
> Either way, I will have to try this out. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> 
> I did a search and didn't find any information (my searching skills could be to blame, though), but is it possibile tro straighten an already warped screen? I ask this just in case I need to do some "emergency" repairs to badly mounted screen.




Someone correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't really see how the method of mounting the screen would effect the waves. I've been using a ceiling mount with hooks, but even if I wall mounted, it would still only hook onto the ends anyways....I'm willing to try anything at this point. The waves are bad, and now when I sit with my nice new bright laptop, the screen looks really dinghy. I'm thinking of just throwing my hands up and going for a high power, black level be damned! I know some of those have waves too, but it seems less common and it sounds like da-lite will swap it out if it does. Either way, I suppose I will live with the GW a little longer


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't really see how the method of mounting the screen would effect the waves. I've been using a ceiling mount with hooks, but even if I wall mounted, it would still only hook onto the ends anyways....I'm willing to try anything at this point. The waves are bad, and now when I sit with my nice new bright laptop, the screen looks really dinghy. I'm thinking of just throwing my hands up and going for a high power, black level be damned! I know some of those have waves too, but it seems less common and it sounds like da-lite will swap it out if it does. Either way, I suppose I will live with the GW a little longer



Not to tease you any but my HiPower is absolutley completely wave free. I don't sweat the black level difference any more, sure the Gray Wolf's blacks were blacker but the HiPowers blacks aren't too far off (they still look black) but the colors and whites are (at least for me) superior to the GW. That and the HP will retract without a fight when I ask it too.







I see the HP as an upgrade to the GW, not a frustration move.


----------



## SMP01

I don't see any ripples or waves when viewing. There is a small slight wave I can see without an image viewed from the side.


This is my first screen so I don't have any history with the problem.


I do think that waves can happen if your screen is not level. How severe? I don't know.


I would prefer a fixed frame, but my current setup won't allow for that. I will keep this for now and possibly upgrade later to electric. I can't even mention any future purchases to my wife just yet.


----------



## eddieb187

I got my Panasonic AE900U this w/e.

Great match for the 106" screen if you shelf mount.

PJ is 11' from screen, lens is dead center height.

Seating is 12' back under and to side of pj.

My room has a 17' ceiling and is very bright, so daytime is not so good.

I can block out some of the light but...

Nightime is fantastic! I can leave most of the lights on and still get a bright picture.

This is great, I hated having company and sitting in the dark.

It does dim some to the side but even all the way is quite watchable.

I don't notice any waves at all with my screen. It's new though.

I can see screen surface sometimes with bright color esp.whites.

It's not often, and when viewing HDTV I don't notice it at all.

I did notice yesterday that the side black border ends curled in when I pulled the screen down.

Leaving the screen down all night corrected this.

I think you should try to leave it down if you can.

Seems to me, pulling it up and down all the time will stretch the fabric creating the dreaded waves.

Anyway, I could not be happier with this combo for HDTV cable signal and being able to leave the lights on at night.

Sunday football and baseball games were amazing!

I can't wait for MNF.


----------



## brm

I've had the PJ and screen for about a week and a half now. I haven't tweaked anything on the PJ except the iris setting, down to a 4. I cannot compare the combo with any others, as FPs are rare at local shops. My experience is similar to some, different from others. I ordered the screen from Buy.com on Sunday night; it arrived Tuesday afternoon, CA to MN. The carton was a little beat up, but the screen case was unmarred. It was the correct screen, had the older rounded mounting hooks, and the plastic, which left no visible line. I hung it in the garage for a day to lessen the smell (which is still there, albeit substantially reduced), then mounted it from hooks into a beam in my 12x18x7.5h family room. It's about 14' from my shelf-mounted projector, which is 53" high, as is the approximate center of the screen; I am using no lens shift. The room is mostly white or off-white, with the exception of the screen end, which has mahogany cabinets and an old-brick fireplace.

The screen is not perfectly flat; it does have some typical "V"-shaped waves when viewed from the side, but I was prepared for that and have no choice other than a pull-down because of the WAF. They are not noticeable in viewing either DVDs through my old Toshiba interlaced player or the just-purchased VOOM HDTV OTA tuner. Retraction is a PITA, although the tips on this forum have been of some help: the screen has never gone all the way up in one retraction. The best I've done is 2 tries, but most of the time it takes several pulls and some fiddling. Not a deal-breaker at the price.

The PJ has a bit better light output than some which, coupled with the 1.8 screen gain, makes for a bright picture. I wanted a gray screen to enhance the blacks because some reviews of the PJ said that its black levels were not good, and I thought that the Graywolf's gain would offset the decreased reflectivity of the gray screen. It seems to have worked.

To my untrained eye, there are times when the whites appear to be too white, despite the gray screen; I am sure that I can adjust that once I start tweaking. The blacks seem OK although, as I said, I have no point of reference. I have noticed the screen pattern once or twice in scenes with a broad swath of a single light color, but I almost had to be looking for it. There is very little difference in vertical brightness whether lying, sitting or standing in front of the screen, probably because of the central location of the PJ. Standard seating position is directly beneath the PJ, approximately 14' from the screen, and there is no SDE whatsoever either on DVD or HDTV with an OTA signal and the VOOM box set at 720p. I haven't walked up to the screen to see where SDE begins, but it's definitely not a problem, and the picture is SHARP, especially with HDTV. There is noticeable light fall-off as you move to the side of the screen. It actually dims just before you reach the edge, but the picture is still acceptably bright, and with a 92" wide screen in a 12' wide room, no one has a bad view.

Watching the last few innings of the World Series last night, I could turn on several room lights and still have a good picture; with all the lights off and the PJ in "Sports" mode it was too bright for my 15-year old son, although I liked it. In all, I am very pleased for the price.


----------



## jcg

So I picked up the GrayWolf at BB, and have watched a couple movies on it now. I agree that it does tend to have a small bit of a dirty look to it depending on the scene. Mine came with the plastic piece along the top of the screen, but when I removed it I can't see any difference or line from where the plastic was. Mine also has some waves that are noticeable when just hanging, and I only tend to notice it during movies once in awhile depending again on the scene.


I also have 2'x2' High Power sample which I hung up over a portion of the GrayWolf to compare them. The HP definately gives more punch to colors, but obviously isn't as good on the blacks. For me I definately prefer the punchier colors, and am willing to sacrafice on the blacks. The main issue with both screens is the viewing cone which drops off quickly when not on center.


In my setup I need a pulldown screen as it pulldowns down in front of an entertainment center when I'm using the projector. Does anyone make a pulldown screen that compromises on the viewing angle vs the gain, so that you maybe get a gain of 1.5 but have a 50 degree viewing cone (vs the HP which is 2.8/25 degrees)? I have setting which is close to 40-50 degrees on both sides of the screen so I'd really like a wide viewing cone, but also would love to get some gain for those punchy colors. Oh, and I don't want to spend more than $1000 on a 52"x92" so any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


jcg



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is the 106" version of the GrayWolf available at BB stores or only online? I just got a Panny AE900 and am currently use a Parkland Plastic from Home Depot as a temporary test screen. I'd like to pick up a GrayWolf to test out if possible.
> 
> 
> jcg


----------



## tones3311

Hey guys,


I got my 92" GW and H31 combo setup this weekend I have to say I am impressed. I was happy when I received my GW and there were no dents, minimal waves and no marks left from the plastic...and also a nice smell that gave me a cheap high for a couple hours...










My only problem with this screen is retracting the darn thing. It took me about 5 mins to get the screen back up last time I used....Am I doing something wrong or are all of them this bad for retracting. I tend to give the screen a quick pull of 2 inches or so and try to get the retracting started...Usuallly I will only get about 6 inches before it stops and I have to do it again.


Hopefully I am doing something wrong as this is a big pain in the buttocks. Is there anything that can be done to fix like take off case and adjust anything?


Thanks.


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I got my 92" GW and H31 combo setup this weekend I have to say I am impressed. I was happy when I received my GW and there were no dents, minimal waves and no marks left from the plastic...and also a nice smell that gave me a cheap high for a couple hours...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem with this screen is retracting the darn thing. It took me about 5 mins to get the screen back up last time I used....Am I doing something wrong or are all of them this bad for retracting. I tend to give the screen a quick pull of 2 inches or so and try to get the retracting started...Usuallly I will only get about 6 inches before it stops and I have to do it again.
> 
> 
> Hopefully I am doing something wrong as this is a big pain in the buttocks. Is there anything that can be done to fix like take off case and adjust anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Try Airboss's method. I was having trouble retracting mine, too, but Airboss's way seemed to do the trick for me:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't had any problems retracting my screen, here is the procedure I use.
> 
> 
> My screen is ceiling mounted and the screen is extended completely.
> 
> 
> I place my hands on the bottom bar about 1 1/2 feet on each side of the center of the bar. I then move the bottom of the screen toward me (about 1 foot from hanging vertical), gently pull down and then push gently upward on the screen as it rises. This works for me 99.5% of the time. I'm 6' tall so I have no problem holding onto the screen and 'helping' it retract for the full retraction.
> 
> 
> Randy


----------



## flyNAVY

How Randy described the process is exactly what we do and it works practically every time. When it doesn't work is when I slow up towards the top so as not to hit the header so I may end up with 6" sticking down. I simply pull it down some and it retracts the rest of the way. The more you do it though, the better you get at knowing when to stop pushing up as it takes over for the last few inches.


This screen has probably been the best deal we've gotten so far in the HT.


----------



## g3dahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> My only problem with this screen is retracting the darn thing. It took me about 5 mins to get the screen back up last time I used....Am I doing something wrong or are all of them this bad for retracting.



This might not be the cause of your problem, but I did notice that mine is sensitive to the position of the case. If it is rotated toward me a bit, it doesn't retract easily. I discovered this before I ever had it mounted. The screen was laying across the top of two really tall speakers. I had trouble retracting it, then found that it worked much better when the case was held at a particular angle.


If your screen doesn't retract well with your case at the position it is mounted, but you find that rotating it a bit helps, then perhaps you can add some shims to adjust the mounting angle. Might at least be worth a try.


Good luck!


Gary Dahl


----------



## Kadath

Gotta add that I am VERY happy with the Greywolf and AE 900 combo, I have it table mounted (plus a few cardboard boxes!) and will be builing a wall shelf mount for it this weekend. My ONLY complaint is that the action to retract the screen is REALLY finicky, it sometimes takes me 10 pulls to get it quick enough to scroll back, and it often leaves 6" still below =(


Sam


----------



## SMP01

when I retract the screen I always "help" the screen back up by slightly lifting the bottom bar. It goes up no problem. I can't remember the last time it didn't go all the way back up on the first try.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> 
> I got my 92" GW and H31 combo setup this weekend I have to say I am impressed. I was happy when I received my GW and there were no dents, minimal waves and no marks left from the plastic...and also a nice smell that gave me a cheap high for a couple hours...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My only problem with this screen is retracting the darn thing. It took me about 5 mins to get the screen back up last time I used....Am I doing something wrong or are all of them this bad for retracting. I tend to give the screen a quick pull of 2 inches or so and try to get the retracting started...Usuallly I will only get about 6 inches before it stops and I have to do it again.
> 
> 
> Hopefully I am doing something wrong as this is a big pain in the buttocks. Is there anything that can be done to fix like take off case and adjust anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks.



A long snap down and a floating action up all the way to the top works well.


----------



## jcg

So any suggestions (see below) or comments on the GrayWolf white screen?


jcg



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I picked up the GrayWolf at BB, and have watched a couple movies on it now. I agree that it does tend to have a small bit of a dirty look to it depending on the scene. Mine came with the plastic piece along the top of the screen, but when I removed it I can't see any difference or line from where the plastic was. Mine also has some waves that are noticeable when just hanging, and I only tend to notice it during movies once in awhile depending again on the scene.
> 
> 
> I also have 2'x2' High Power sample which I hung up over a portion of the GrayWolf to compare them. The HP definately gives more punch to colors, but obviously isn't as good on the blacks. For me I definately prefer the punchier colors, and am willing to sacrafice on the blacks. The main issue with both screens is the viewing cone which drops off quickly when not on center.
> 
> 
> In my setup I need a pulldown screen as it pulldowns down in front of an entertainment center when I'm using the projector. Does anyone make a pulldown screen that compromises on the viewing angle vs the gain, so that you maybe get a gain of 1.5 but have a 50 degree viewing cone (vs the HP which is 2.8/25 degrees)? I have setting which is close to 40-50 degrees on both sides of the screen so I'd really like a wide viewing cone, but also would love to get some gain for those punchy colors. Oh, and I don't want to spend more than $1000 on a 52"x92" so any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> jcg


----------



## guitarman

That's Mat White which is also good for not showing waves with video. Simple 1.0 gain white and neutral for color.


Graywolf has the advantage of gain in the cone and great ambient light rejection. The light rejection is major for anyone with white walls, daylight football games or just a small light to light up the room. People with bright projectors can benefit with these pluses by ceiling mounting. Sure beats using an ND filter.


----------



## ericlhyman

I contacted Optoma about whether they planned to offer larger sizes of the Gray Wolf. They said that they will do custom orders . I sent them a follow-up asking about a larger screen in a fixed frame wall mount.


If I can avoid the problems with the pull-down mount, would this screen be preferable to the Da-Lite High Power with the Sony Ruby projector under the following conditions: Table mount projector 51" from the floor. Top of screen 35" higher. White walls and ceiling, but some bookcases on 1 side wall and equipment racks on opposite wall to screen. Room has large sliding glass door to right of screen, but covered with a blackout curtain and drapes. Projector to screen distance of 17.5 feet. Distance from screen to seating = 13.5 ft. Only 1 row of seats for 2 people. Screen size of 120".


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiwa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> just recieved mine today from pc nation,gonna put it up tomorrow with my opotoma h31 and see how it compares to my white wall. it is well packaged,no dent no scratch, white case.on the package it says graywolf 1.8, i have good feeling about this




do you have a link i looked and i cant find it on PCnations website and did buy.com get there act together. They have the 92 inch for a good price is it the right one.


----------



## Pedro2

I'm pretty sure this is the screen for me, but can't decide between the 92 and 106 inch. Viewing distance is about 11 feet, with some ambient light in the room. I suppose I could get the larger of the two and then just project a smaller image if it is too large--but perhaps one loses something by not filling out the screen and using the black borders. Obviously the benefit of 106" is the bigger size, but is the picture noticeably better at 92"? I will be using a Panasonic AE700U, so screen door effect should not be an issue. Any advice?


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pedro2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this is the screen for me, but can't decide between the 92 and 106 inch. Viewing distance is about 11 feet, with some ambient light in the room. I suppose I could get the larger of the two and then just project a smaller image if it is too large--but perhaps one loses something by not filling out the screen and using the black borders. Obviously the benefit of 106" is the bigger size, but is the picture noticeably better at 92"? I will be using a Panasonic AE700U, so screen door effect should not be an issue. Any advice?



I am using a 106" GW, with a Z2 that is about 15' away. Sitting at 11-12' from the screen, I rarely notice any SDE. Maybe 5% of the time.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ericlhyman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I contacted Optoma about whether they planned to offer larger sizes of the Gray Wolf. They said that they will do custom orders . I sent them a follow-up asking about a larger screen in a fixed frame wall mount.
> 
> 
> If I can avoid the problems with the pull-down mount, would this screen be preferable to the Da-Lite High Power with the Sony Ruby projector under the following conditions: Table mount projector 51" from the floor. Top of screen 35" higher. White walls and ceiling, but some bookcases on 1 side wall and equipment racks on opposite wall to screen. Room has large sliding glass door to right of screen, but covered with a blackout curtain and drapes. Projector to screen distance of 17.5 feet. Distance from screen to seating = 13.5 ft. Only 1 row of seats for 2 people. Screen size of 120".




It's a matter of how much brightness the new Sony can do. You're going large screen at 120" which adds to the brightness problem. Safe side says the High Power would be less of a gamble for you.


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ericlhyman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I contacted Optoma about whether they planned to offer larger sizes of the Gray Wolf. They said that they will do custom orders . I sent them a follow-up asking about a larger screen in a fixed frame wall mount.



Please let us know of their answer and price.

Did you also ask if its possible to buy just the screen material (if one wants to get it to Europe and then frame it oneselves).

A roll of material would be just great since the casette seems kinda .... "not very good" anyway










Regards

Boogieman


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a matter of how much brightness the new Sony can do. You're going large screen at 120" which adds to the brightness problem. Safe side says the High Power would be less of a gamble for you.





Guitarman has it been verified that buy.com has the correct screen here is the link i was going to use to purchase


http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_.../10390774.html


----------



## ericlhyman

I haven't heard back from him yet, but you could contact David Tuttle [email protected] I would guess that you could buy just the screen material.


This is what he wrote to me:



Hi Eric,


We don't advertise it yet but we can do custom screens.


Please tell me the size (diag), matt, gain, and frame and I can put together

a quote for you.


Regards,

David T.


----------



## sub0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am using a 106" GW, with a Z2 that is about 15' away. Sitting at 11-12' from the screen, I rarely notice any SDE. Maybe 5% of the time.



I am considering getting the GW for my Z2 too. Is your Z2 ceiling or table mount?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guitarman has it been verified that buy.com has the correct screen here is the link i was going to use to purchase
> 
> 
> http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_.../10390774.html



Figure they must have it sorted out by now. Add looks correct but out of stock.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Figure they must have it sorted out by now. Add looks correct but out of stock.




thanks due to some WAF what do you think of this screen mated to the AE900u

http://www.draperinc.com/Screen_Page...ion_screen.htm 


i was going to get the hi contrast grey in the 92inch version


of course its 3-4 times more epensive then the greywolf


----------



## guitarman

Graywolf is such a deal you may want to give it a look first. Personally I love the screen, I'm not bothered by the screen texture. Really got use to it early on. The increased blacks and ambient light rejection is worth it to me alone, the video/wave rejection also. I really like the added dark border on the top. This keeps light from reflecting off the white case, the list keeps going on. Worth I try I think


----------



## boykster

Well, add me to the GrayWolf owners list...I just ordered one to make a fixed screen to mate with my soon-to-be ordered AE900.


I have read and read and read and was planning on using HCCV to build my frame, but decided to give GrayWolf a shot first. Sounds very promising. I have a 12x18 theater, 80" or so fixed 16x9 screen (to be built), 1st row at ~9', second row at 14'.


I currently have a 42" panasonic ED plasma in the theater and am looking forward to something bigger!


Cheers,


Rich


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *boykster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, add me to the GrayWolf owners list...I just ordered one to make a fixed screen to mate with my soon-to-be ordered AE900.
> 
> 
> I have read and read and read and was planning on using HCCV to build my frame, but decided to give GrayWolf a shot first. Sounds very promising. I have a 12x18 theater, 80" or so fixed 16x9 screen (to be built), 1st row at ~9', second row at 14'.
> 
> 
> I currently have a 42" panasonic ED plasma in the theater and am looking forward to something bigger!
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Rich




where did you purchase from?


----------



## boykster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> where did you purchase from?



I ordered the 106" screen from Buy.com. I figured that if I got the wrong one, I could return it pretty easily as buy.com has always been a great vendor to me.


http://www.buy.com/prod/GrayWolf_by_.../10390775.html 


Description sounds good, and from sifting through the thread, it seems that buy.com has the correct stock (just a matter of getting the correct one sent).


They also have the 92" screen, but it is on backorder.


Rich


----------



## jcg

So I returned my Graywolf, and trying to find the white version to no avail. I live near Optoma headquarters so figured I'd call them to see if I could pick one up direct, and was told the white one is only sold in Canada? What's up with that. Is Optoma just rebadging someone elses screen and can't sell it in the US?


It seems like DaLite and this white GrayWolf are my only 2 options for a pulldown with a cost of less than $1000 MSRP. So if anyone has any leads on how to obtain a white version please let me know. I'm sure I could get one online, but I want the option of returning it if I don't like it.


jcg



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's Mat White which is also good for not showing waves with video. Simple 1.0 gain white and neutral for color.
> 
> 
> Graywolf has the advantage of gain in the cone and great ambient light rejection. The light rejection is major for anyone with white walls, daylight football games or just a small light to light up the room. People with bright projectors can benefit with these pluses by ceiling mounting. Sure beats using an ND filter.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So I returned my Graywolf, and trying to find the white version to no avail. I live near Optoma headquarters so figured I'd call them to see if I could pick one up direct, and was told the white one is only sold in Canada? What's up with that. Is Optoma just rebadging someone elses screen and can't sell it in the US?
> 
> 
> It seems like DaLite and this white GrayWolf are my only 2 options for a pulldown with a cost of less than $1000 MSRP. So if anyone has any leads on how to obtain a white version please let me know. I'm sure I could get one online, but I want the option of returning it if I don't like it.
> 
> 
> jcg



Perhaps I missed some of your earlier posts but is there a reason you don't want to go with Da-Lite? I returned my Graywolf and ended up with the Da-Lite HiPower which is a far better quality screen. The price is only a hundred or so more than the Graywolf so it's well within your budget. The Da-Lite HCMW at 1.1 gain would also be a good choice.


BTW - if you get a chance, you should stop in to Optoma's headquarters, I did (when I exchanged my Graywolf) and they have a big dollar demo room with the H78(?) and the DV10 in there. It was a phenominal experience!


----------



## jcg

I have a 2'x2' sample of the high power and I love it when in the cone, but I have seating 45 degrees off axis on both sides of the screen. I just got a sample of the DaLite matte white, but haven't been able to test out yet. I have no problem going with a version of the DaLite, it's just that I was looking for feedback on any other options before I made a final decision. Hey I may even go with the HP since my seat will always be right in the middle of the cone










jcg



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Perhaps I missed some of your earlier posts but is there a reason you don't want to go with Da-Lite? I returned my Graywolf and ended up with the Da-Lite HiPower which is a far better quality screen. The price is only a hundred or so more than the Graywolf so it's well within your budget. The Da-Lite HCMW at 1.1 gain would also be a good choice.
> 
> 
> BTW - if you get a chance, you should stop in to Optoma's headquarters, I did (when I exchanged my Graywolf) and they have a big dollar demo room with the H78(?) and the DV10 in there. It was a phenominal experience!


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 2'x2' sample of the high power and I love it when in the cone, but I have seating 45 degrees off axis on both sides of the screen. I just got a sample of the DaLite matte white, but haven't been able to test out yet. I have no problem going with a version of the DaLite, it's just that I was looking for feedback on any other options before I made a final decision. Hey I may even go with the HP since my seat will always be right in the middle of the cone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcg



Gotcha. I sit outside the cone with my HP and it's awesome! Inside the cone it would be too bright and I'd have to deal with that some other way. As it is, my PJ (Sharp DT-300) is ceiling mounted (88" high) 9' back of the screen and I sit 15' back.


The drop off on severe angles isn't bad. Once you are outside of the cone nothing changes, when you are out, you're out and the brighness is consistent. My daughter sits right 'next' to the screen while she works on her laptop and I'm always catching her looking to her left to see what's happening on the screen. I tried that and was shocked to see that picture is still totally watchable!


The sample of the HP is nice (I got one also) but when you see the 'whole' screen the imperfections of the 12 X 12 swatch aren't nearly as pronounced.


----------



## nclee

Hello, just got my 106" gray wolf from buy.com, have one question though? Does it come with the mounting screws or hangers?


Thanks,


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nclee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello, just got my 106" gray wolf from buy.com, have one question though? Does it come with the mounting screws or hangers?
> 
> 
> Thanks,




No.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nclee* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello, just got my 106" gray wolf from buy.com, have one question though? Does it come with the mounting screws or hangers?
> 
> 
> Thanks,




A good way to setup is to use L-brackets from a hardware store, while there pick up some hooks with threads on the ends so you can balance the screen perfectly.


----------



## Sam Samuelian

Even my eighteen hundred dollar Stewart screen did not come with mounting gear!


----------



## nclee

Got it, hardware store here I come. I was hoping to do a wall mount, but the mantle on the fire place is in the way. Guess have to ceiling mount 1 ft+ away from the wall.


----------



## gvera

I need a 82" diag screen and was considering cutting a 92" Graywolf.


I have a friend with all the necessary tools to do that


Did anybody disassembled his graywolf?


Do you think this is possible?


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvera* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I need a 82" diag screen and was considering cutting a 92" Graywolf.



A couple pages back, someone said that Optoma will make custom sizes. However, they haven't yet responded to my e-mail.


----------



## gvera

WabashMX5,


Thanks for your answer, but being in Uruguay makes things harder.

I can't just buy from Optoma USA directly.

I'll try to convince the Uruguayan Optoma importer to get one for me but it will take months.


----------



## jcg

I got a chance to test out the DaLite matte white last night. I had a 2'x2' sample of DaLite High Power and DaLite Matte White taped to a Parkland plastic temp screen. Turns out that Parkland plastic is quite a good screen as it seemed just a tad brighter than the Matte White in certain scenes, but for 95% of the time they seemed almost identical. The High Power is much brighter when in the cone and darker than the PP/MW when outside the cone, but not that much darker. Bright colors (reds/greens/yellows/blues) are amazing when in the cone on the HP, but darkers scenes seem somewhat washed out when compared to the PP/MW.


So at this point I'm leaning towards the HP, but have one more sample of Stewart 1.3 gain material I'm trying to get. I don't really want to spend as much as the Stewart costs, but if it was a really awesome screen I might consider it. I'll post in the other thread I started about my screen search too, but haven't been getting any replies in it.


jcg



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jcg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 2'x2' sample of the high power and I love it when in the cone, but I have seating 45 degrees off axis on both sides of the screen. I just got a sample of the DaLite matte white, but haven't been able to test out yet. I have no problem going with a version of the DaLite, it's just that I was looking for feedback on any other options before I made a final decision. Hey I may even go with the HP since my seat will always be right in the middle of the cone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jcg


----------



## salavs

It seems some people are posting that they have gotten their screens without any plastic covering the gray portion of the screen, and others are saying that they have gotten screens which do have the plastic going over the screen, but stuck only to the black portion of the screen.


Trying to figure out if these two are the same case, i.e. the real problem with the early ones was that the plastic was actually *stuck* to the gray portion?


Mine was of the variety where the plastic was only stuck to the black part, but was partially covering the gray part. I have to say initially I could very clearly see the difference between the two sections of the screen. Since then I have been very busy and have not really done any critical watching. Just the occasional "Good Eats" at night with the lights one







. With that much ambient light, everything gets slightly washed out and I can't really notice the difference so I don't know if the effect has faded over time. I got my screen just over 2 weeks ago from buy.com and am wondering whether I need to look into a replacement for these supposedly newer models which don't have the plastic covering any portion of the screen.


----------



## WabashMX5

Looks like Best Buy has removed the in-store pickup option for the GrayWolf (at least the 92"). However, I called a few regional stores to try to find one in stock -- and after driving an hour for a false "yes" answer, that store is now ordering one for me at a price close to that of mail-order. Should be the best of both worlds, since should get more careful handling in shipment on BB's own trucks than via UPS. Between that, and the chance to inspect before I even leave the store, I'm willing to pay a few extra bucks.


----------



## WabashMX5

...and I suppose that I should ask (now that I've already ordered so it's too late):


My Z3 is mounted about 18" above and less than 12" behind the viewer's heads. From what I read (in all 33 pages!), that should be just about ideal to utilize the retroreflective coating?


Thanks to all previous posters for all the helpful information -- a little time-consuming to slog through all of it, but very helpful. Great forum you've got here.


----------



## boykster

gvera,


I'm getting ready to (probably tomorrow) dismantle my 106" graywolf to make an 82" one (i bought the 106 because it was in stock). I'm going to use pretty standard DIY screen construction techniques.


I'll let you know how it goes..


Rich


----------



## alan2005

Does anyone have the AE900 setup with the Gray Wolf? If so, how do you have it mounted - shelf, table, ceiling? How is the brightness and drop-off on the sides and between sitting and standing?


Thanks,


Alan


----------



## MikeSRC

I have an AE900 with the GreyWolf. I have a few comments earlier on this thread, but basically I have the AE900 mounted on the back wall with the lens height just below the top of the screen. This puts the projector closer to my seated eye height (as well as minimizing lens shift). As a result, there's not much difference between the seated and standing positions. As mentioned on this thread, the drop-off in brightness and PQ as you move outside the horizontal limits of your screen is rapid, regardless of the projector. Basically, due to its retroreflective nature, you want your vertical viewing position to be within a few feet of the projector if possible. Horizontally, I don't like to be more than a few feet outside the screen width limits.


----------



## alan2005

Thanks, Mike. I read the thread but I guess I missed your comments... Hopefully my room and mounting will make the GrayWolf a hit. I don't think side to side will be a problem for me since my room is only about 12'6" and I'll be using a 106" screen. Up and down could be a problem depending on where I mount it. I think I might shelf mount it behind me at about 5'6", or ceiling mount it somewhere around 6'.


Alan


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alan2005* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I might shelf mount it behind me at about 5'6", or ceiling mount it somewhere around 6'.
> 
> 
> Alan



Either one should work fine. I believe mine's at about 5'-6".


----------



## alan2005

Mike - I talked with a sales person who was almost discouraging me from getting the GW because of the 1.8 gain. She thought it would be too bright based on the Projector Central applet. However, I've heard multiple people say that the brightness figures are off because it is going off of advertised lumens, not calibrated lumens (which usually end up much lower). Now that you've had the GW for a while, and it sounds like you have other screens as well, what do you think overall of the colors, brightness, black levels, etc? I found your old posts and you said the AE900 and GW are a great match. Any change in opinion? Have you found a screen you like better?


Thanks!


Alan


----------



## boykster

You can always add a ND filter to reduce brightness...its difficult to add it.


Rich


----------



## boykster

gvera,


Well, I made my DIY frame for my graywolf today, and mounted the material. My screen is 74" x 41 5/8" for an approximate 85" diag screen. I used a 106" graywolf, and while I had a fair bit of extra material, depending on your construction, using a 92" might be pushing it. I'd recommend grabbing a 106" screen (not much more $$) and using that as the donor.


My comments on the process:


- the hardest single part was removing the material from the roller! I had the darnedest time getting the screen to stay "down" (while laying on the floor), and I was working by myself, so i had to rig up a few things.


-be careful not to crease or wrinkle the screen material once it's free. Again, a second set of hands would be useful to keep creases out of the material. On the upside, if you do get a light wrinkle or crease, it seems to settle out after stretching the material and letting it "settle"


-the material is very vinyl feeling, and doesn't stretch too much per se. But it was not too difficult to get a nice tight screen surface. I didn't use canvas pliers, but if I did it again, I probably would, just to get that extra special tautness. I have one spot that I need to revisit to even out just a tad, but overall the material was easy to work with.


Here's the construction technique that I used:

http://www.eldamar.net/house/ht/screenHowTo.html 


I used his frame building as a guide, but used L-brackets, glue, and screws, rather than just glue and a jig to make the frame (I'm impatient and wanted to finish in an afternoon). I did use the quarter round approach to lift the material off the surface of the 1x3's.


Anyway, it is doable, and pretty easy. This was my first DIY screen, but I have worked with fabric and staplers before (theater is entirely covered in cloth, have reupholstered before). I DO heartily recommend either an electric staple gun, or an air one....


Rich


----------



## gvera

Hi Rich


Thanks for your post.

My idea was to build a smaller rollup screen by cutting the roller, case and putting everything toghether again.

I have a friend that repairs cars and has all tools required to work with sheet metal.

My concern was if the GW is built in a way that once dismantled it cannot be put together again. Is this the case?

Did you have to broke something to disassemble the GW?


Thanks again


Gustavo


----------



## chengka




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gvera* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Rich
> 
> 
> Thanks for your post.
> 
> My idea was to build a smaller rollup screen by cutting the roller, case and putting everything toghether again.
> 
> I have a friend that repairs cars and has all tools required to work with sheet metal.
> 
> My concern was if the GW is built in a way that once dismantled it cannot be put together again. Is this the case?
> 
> Did you have to broke something to disassemble the GW?
> 
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> 
> Gustavo



Gustavo,


I have disassembled my Greyhawk, but I have not attempted to reassemble it. You do not not need to "damage" anything, just remove 2 screws which hold an end cap and you are done! The Material is attached to a metal roller just like a window shade.


WARNING, just like a window shade, there is an internal spring in the roller. One end caps has a square whole which holds the spring and creates the tension. You will have to rewind the spring once you are done. I have not done this, but I think it should be quite simple.


The material seems to be glued to the rod, so removing it, cutting it and reattaching should be possible. The material slides into a slot on the bottom bar, with end caps. That should be easy. The case could be cut by someone with tools and skills. I think the spring could be the problem with your plan. If it runs the length of the rod, how do you cut the rod without ruining the spring? Heck, the whole spring roller mechanism stinks anyway. Maybe you should modify it to use draw chain like some miniblinds.


Good luck. Mine is hanging upside down, without the case, in from of my white screen while I finish my room. Let me know if you need to know anything specific.


Ken


----------



## gvera

Ken,


Thanks for your answer.

I'll buy a 92" and see what happens.

The screens should be available in Uruguay by December.

I'll post the results after I do (or try to do) the mods.


Regards

Gustavo


----------



## louisdamani

Provantage.com has this screen at a nice price. I ordered a 92" screen at 12: AM Tuesday morning and got it today (Wednesday). It came from Illinois and I'm in Michigan. Its in the correct box as pictured earleir in the post. I haven't opened it yet. The box is in good condition though.


----------



## talon_3

I have a unique situation where I will have to hang this above a door.

Can someone tell me how long the 92" screen is when pulled all the way down?

I know the viewing area is 45x80 but how long is the black border at the top?

Would this add another 12" on the 45" width? I need at least 50 to 55" to hang it low enough for my coffe table mount.


Thanks to all for who have reported on this screen.


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> how long is the black border at the top?
> 
> Would this add another 12" on the 45" width?



Some of the online retailers I've seen claim an overall screen length of 57" -- which sounds like exactly the 12" drop you (and I) are looking for.


----------



## talon_3

Louisdamani

Can you verify that this the correct screen? They have the best prices I have seen and I am ready to pull the trigger but I want to make sure this is the Grey Wolf. Give us a full report on how you like it..


Enjoy!!!!


----------



## louisdamani

SORRY I TOOK SO LONG


Talon it is the correct screen. The box said Panoview Gray Wolf. The housing is white and has Panoview on the left, Gray Wolf on the right. I cut mine of the pull down and glued it with 3M Super 77 to one side of my Gatorboard screen. I turned on X2 and could damn near watch it with the light on, so it can handle ambiant light without a doubt. Due to room constraints I could not mount the housing because its to long ( I live in a Bungalow and my upstairs ceiling arches) and not enough space to pull down the screen either (its over a built-in book shelf). The space I'm using can fit a bigger stationary screen. It fits perfect on the Gatorboard that is 7' x 4' which make a perfect 92" screen with borders or 94" without. If went to the Optoma site and got the dimensions for the screen before I opened the box. They are 2130mm x 1490mm including the extra black at the top of the screen.


Talon, make sure you check the shipping cost to your state on the Provantage site. It cost me $40 extra for shipping which is still a good price for the screen plus no hassles with the wrong screen coming. Pay attention to their return policy also. (unopened only I think)


GOOD LUCK!!!


----------



## oldfolkie

Does anyone know the exact length--end-to-end--of the case for the 106" screen? I'm thinking about getting this screen and hanging it in front of a large picture window in our living room. The window is in a 24" x 100" boxed-out area of the living room (the side walls may be up to 100.25" apart).


According to Optoma's site, the length of the case for the 106" is 99", which would seem to fit--barely. But also according to Optoma's site, the distance between the keyholes is about 98.8". This would leave only .1" between each keyhole and the end of the case, which doesn't seem right (the 92" case is supposed to be 88" long, with 86.6" between keyholes--leaving .7" between each keyhole and the end).


Anyway, does anyone know if I'd be able to fit the case for the 106" screen within the 100" distance between the two side walls?


----------



## Airboss

oldfolkie, the 106" screen should fit, although barely.


The total length of the 106" case is just a hair under 100" if you use the keyhole for mounting, but if you use the ceiling mount it might be a little over 100". Also, even if you use the wall mount you may have to remove the triangular metal piece used for ceiling mounting since it extends pass the end of the case (see photos).


As far as using the wall mount, it would be possible to shave away part of the plastic that extends pass the end of the case if necessary.


Photo 1 

Photo 2 

Photo 3 

Photo 4 


Randy


----------



## xxThe Deanxx

From this thread I am gathering that the 106" Grey wolf HDTV grey screen should do just fine with the AE900U?

It looks awesome with the X1 and my Panny comes Monday and I am crossing my fingers it will look right but that proj. calculator threw me for a loop when I saw it.

Some of you have said they are having a difficult time finding retailers other than Best Buy. I got mine from Tiger Direct.


----------



## RyanBosma

Folks,


Does anyone know if it is possible to flip the roll of the material inside the grey wolf case? I have a situation where my current DIY screen is hidden behind a valance and rolls out in front of some drapes. With the slot where the screen rolls out being at the back of the case the screen would come down behind my drapes. Can I turn the case around so the slot that the screen rolls out of is toward the front requiring the screen material to be flipped inside. I can't just simply move the case forward so that it would drop in front of the drapes because of the valance I mentioned earlier. I'm not explaining this very well but I hope you're getting the idea behind this babbling. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Ryan


----------



## oldfolkie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oldfolkie, the 106" screen should fit, although barely.
> 
> 
> The total length of the 106" case is just a hair under 100" if you use the keyhole for mounting, but if you use the ceiling mount it might be a little over 100". Also, even if you use the wall mount you may have to remove the triangular metal piece used for ceiling mounting since it extends pass the end of the case (see photos).
> 
> 
> As far as using the wall mount, it would be possible to shave away part of the plastic that extends pass the end of the case if necessary.



Thanks for your reply, Randy. Good info and helpful photos. It looks like it may be doable...although very tight.


Thanks again for taking the time to take the measurements and the photos.


Oldfokie


----------



## talon_3

Louisdamani,


Thanks for the reply. I went ahead and bought mine from Buy.com. Hopefully it will be here by Wed. Now I just have to figure out how to hang it on Lathe and plaster.

Any ideas from you people about the plaster walls??



Cheers


----------



## alan2005

I received my GrayWolf 106" on Friday and got it mounted by Saturday. Somewhat of a rarity, the case showed up in perfect condition. However, mine had the plastic down into the screen area. It came off without any problems, but the dreaded lighter area is there. It's actually more of a band. The very top few inches of the screen is fine, then a few inches of lighter looking area, and finally the rest (majority) of the screen is as it should be. The lighter area also appeared to be rippled, as if it was a problem with warping inside the case. (Just a guess, I'm not sure if the plastic is the cause, or a possible attempted solution). So far it is only somewhat noticeable during full-screen movies, and barely noticeable on movies with slight letter-boxing. And usually only during bright screens... (you can also see the screen material during really bright scenes as well, but isn't really bothersome). One other thing about quality, there appeared to be a streak on the right side of my screen, but I really haven't noticed it while watching a movie.


As for performance, the GrayWolf is awesome! I've seen Stewart screens, and sure, they are nice, but nicer at 10 times the price of a GrayWolf??? I'll have to think about that. I guess it depends on how "perfect" you want your theater to be. Maybe my mind will change after I've had it for a while (and since I'm a first time PJ owner, I'm amazed at just about everything right now). At first I was projecting my AE900 onto the wall and lights would wash it out bad. After I got the screen mounted, I was impressed at how well the GrayWolf holds up to ambient light.


Score card:

Qualtiy: C- (probably more like a D+ for most people with dented cases)

Performance: A

Overall: B


Good luck getting a perfect one though! It seems like Optoma has a serious QC issue.


Alan


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oldfolkie, the 106" screen should fit, although barely.
> 
> 
> The total length of the 106" case is just a hair under 100" if you use the keyhole for mounting, but if you use the ceiling mount it might be a little over 100". Also, even if you use the wall mount you may have to remove the triangular metal piece used for ceiling mounting since it extends pass the end of the case (see photos).
> 
> 
> As far as using the wall mount, it would be possible to shave away part of the plastic that extends pass the end of the case if necessary.
> 
> 
> Photo 1
> 
> Photo 2
> 
> Photo 3
> 
> Photo 4
> 
> 
> Randy




Can you tell me with the screen fully extended what the measurement is top of screen case to the bottom of the screen.


I assume 52 inches plus the 12 inch border plus say 4 inches for the casing


68 inches???


is there a minimum it has to hang from the ceiling or can you just put it flush


thanks


----------



## Bytehoven

A couple of folks have bought the Grey Wolf and cut it down for a permanent install.


Would anyone who did this, have a piece of the screen they could send me to test on my wall?


If yes, please drop me an email and we can work out the details.

[email protected] 


Thanks


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can you tell me with the screen fully extended what the measurement is top of screen case to the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> I assume 52 inches plus the 12 inch border plus say 4 inches for the casing
> 
> 
> 68 inches???
> 
> 
> is there a minimum it has to hang from the ceiling or can you just put it flush
> 
> 
> thanks



manufanatic, on my screen the black part at the top is 13", from the top of the case to the bottom of the screen is 70". I have mine ceiling mounted with the attached hooks and the top of the case is 3" from the ceiling.


Randy


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> manufanatic, on my screen the black part at the top is 13", from the top of the case to the bottom of the screen is 70". I have mine ceiling mounted with the attached hooks and the top of the case is 3" from the ceiling.
> 
> 
> Randy



stupid questions but do you have to extend the screen to show the entire 13 inches of black top and what should i be looking for at the store to put into the ceiling to mount this screen?


----------



## angel95135

I have the graywolf 106" , Does anybody had converted this to a motorized screen?


----------



## WabashMX5

Well, Best Buy had the 92" GW on backorder, so I just ordered one through Provantage, based on LouisDamani's experience.


Can anyone who's ordered through Provantage chime in about whether they had the plastic and/or the banding problem?


----------



## steve4459

Anyone have any ideas where I can order the Matte White version of the 106" Optoma GrayWolf. I have the GrayWolf now, but would also like to have the Matte White version also. I have been told that the cases are identical on both of these, meaning the mounting holes are in the same spots in both cases. I know there has been alot of confusion on receiving the correct screen material on the Optomas before, so thats why I'm hoping someone will let me know where they ordered and received a Optoma Matte White screen. Any info would be appreciated.


Thanks, Steve


----------



## GreenMonkey

Too bad they don't make a 4:3 Graywolf


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GreenMonkey* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Too bad they don't make a 4:3 Graywolf



They make at least an 84" in 4:3 don't give up yet!


----------



## LeeTpa

I received a graywolf 96" from buy com and it was in perfect condition... no dents in the case. no line from the plastic witch just fell off when i opened the screen... and no waves in the material.. hopefully Optoma got their QC corrected.. The box it came in was a heavy double wall box... and the difference in the picture going from a matte white screen to the graywolf is amazing. Thanks to the people in this thread for the information on the screen.


Lee


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LeeTpa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I received a graywolf 96" from buy com and it was in perfect condition... no dents in the case. no line from the plastic witch just fell off when i opened the screen... and no waves in the material.. hopefully Optoma got their QC corrected.. The box it came in was a heavy double wall box... and the difference in the picture going from a matte white screen to the graywolf is amazing. Thanks to the people in this thread for the information on the screen.
> 
> 
> Lee



92 or 106? dont believe they make a 96 but if they do please send me the link



for those of you who purchased from provantage is this the 92 inch greywolf

http://www.provantage.com/buy-7OPTO0...m-shopping.htm 


it dosnt stipulate gray but i believe its the same product number as the graywolf


----------



## LeeTpa

sorry... it was a typo... it is a 92" not 96"







and btw.. it is a pain to roll it back up.. but eventually it does.


Lee


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> for those of you who purchased from provantage is this the 92 inch greywolf
> 
> http://www.provantage.com/buy-7OPTO0...m-shopping.htm



I sure hope so, because it's what I've ordered and in any event, the "1.8 gain" in the description would only apply to the Graywolf.







It's set to arrive tomorrow, so I'll know for sure and will post up.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WabashMX5* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I sure hope so, because it's what I've ordered and in any event, the "1.8 gain" in the description would only apply to the Graywolf.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's set to arrive tomorrow, so I'll know for sure and will post up.




let me know please Im just itching to purchase.


----------



## eb50

provanage shipping charge is ridiculous.. 40$


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eb50* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> provanage shipping charge is ridiculous.. 40$



Well, we're only allowed to mention MSRP instead of street prices but suffice to say that their street price is so low that, even after the huge shipping charge, it's the cheapest I've found by a LONG shot.


However, FedEx looks to be taking a day longer than expected, so no word on my screen yet. Tomorrow, it looks like.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WabashMX5* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, we're only allowed to mention MSRP instead of street prices but suffice to say that their street price is so low that, even after the huge shipping charge, it's the cheapest I've found by a LONG shot.
> 
> 
> However, FedEx looks to be taking a day longer than expected, so no word on my screen yet. Tomorrow, it looks like.




Cool post as soon as you can


----------



## derek murray




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eb50* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> provanage shipping charge is ridiculous.. 40$



you think that's bad... they are wanting $123.00 to ship to Canada... we're not 'that' far away


----------



## rbastedo

buydotcom has free shipping on that item









Mine is "on the way"!


Ok, now I am home & have a little more time to type this.


I have an H31 and my seating is 11 feet from the screen.

I see a little SDE with the Panoview that came bundled with my H31.

I've read here that the higher gain and the other features of this screen should help with this and make my 11 foot seating a little more palatable.

Anybody have some input about this?


----------



## dvdvideo

Is there anywhere I can get the grey wolf in Canada?


If not do the avs guys sell them, and if so who do I contact?


Thanks!


----------



## WabashMX5

ProVantage shipped my 92" Graywolf promptly, but FedEx took a day longer than estimated with it. However, it arrived yesterday, and here's the summary:


1. It's the right item, for anyone who was concerned.


2. The box looked completely intact, but there were a three minor dings in the case one on the back where it mounts to the wall (no biggie), and two "door ding"-sized dents on the front which are about impossible to notice unless you're looking. My wife and I can live with them.


3. To answer a question from *way* back in the thread, our 92" had the dreaded plastic sheet at the top. However, it came off on its own the first time we unrolled the screen. No sign of any lines, lighter areas, or any other ill effects from it having been there.


4. So far, looks like ours takes a little special technique to roll up, just like nearly everyone else has reported. I'm getting the hang of it, though.


5. Didn't notice any distracting sparklies, at least not last night while inaugurating the screen with "Mr. and Mrs. Smith."


So overall, all's well, especially for the very low price. Sorry to hear ProVantage's shipping is so expensive to Canada, though don't know who might have the best deal for our northern neighbors.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WabashMX5* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ProVantage shipped my 92" Graywolf promptly, but FedEx took a day longer than estimated with it. However, it arrived yesterday, and here's the summary:
> 
> 
> 1. It's the right item, for anyone who was concerned.
> 
> 
> 2. The box looked completely intact, but there were a three minor dings in the case one on the back where it mounts to the wall (no biggie), and two "door ding"-sized dents on the front which are about impossible to notice unless you're looking. My wife and I can live with them.
> 
> 
> 3. To answer a question from *way* back in the thread, our 92" had the dreaded plastic sheet at the top. However, it came off on its own the first time we unrolled the screen. No sign of any lines, lighter areas, or any other ill effects from it having been there.
> 
> 
> 4. So far, looks like ours takes a little special technique to roll up, just like nearly everyone else has reported. I'm getting the hang of it, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Didn't notice any distracting sparklies, at least not last night while inaugurating the screen with "Mr. and Mrs. Smith."
> 
> 
> So overall, all's well, especially for the very low price. Sorry to hear ProVantage's shipping is so expensive to Canada, though don't know who might have the best deal for our northern neighbors.





what about performance??


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what about performance??



Worlds better than the white bedsheet we'd been using temporarily.







I'm new enough to FP that I don't trust my ability to discern or describe major critical judgments yet.


There's still noticeable SDE with our Z3, but I haven't done the "Z3.5" tweaks yet, since I'd been waiting on this screen to arrive. Also, we're breaking the 1.5:1 rule; we're closer to 1.25x screen width, so it'd be more apparent in our setup anyway. (It's why I'd hoped to get an 84" widescreen Graywolf.)


The gain is nice. There's one noticeable "sweet spot" smack dab in the center, but that's because our PJ is rear shelf-mounted immediately behind and less than 2' above viewer's heads. Really, it's a "super-sweet" spot; there's a very reasonable viewing cone for the remaining width of the couch, which is about the same as the screen width.


With all the lights on (a recessed light immediately over the screen, in a medium-tan room with light-tan carpet and white ceiling), there's obviously a lot of shadow detail lost -- but the rest is otherwise still amazingly watchable. I'd suspect that sports (where shadow detail is less critical) would be perfectly watchable in full broad daylight. And come to think of it, that's with the PJ running on half-lamp mode.


So, especially for the pittance we paid, I see no room for complaints. Maybe in our next house, I'll try to go fixed-screen with a BFLF homemade screen (man, those DIY guys are hardcore!). In the meanwhile, especially for our first FP setup, it's great.


Hope that's helpful.


----------



## flyNAVY

I'll second everything that WabashMX5 said. We have the 106" paired with a Z2. We are also sitting closer than we "should" be but even so, we rarely (I mean maybe 5% of the time) do we notice any SDE. Our friends and family have even commented on the same expecting beforehand to at least see some. Viewing with house lights on does decrease shadow detail, but as mentioned above, it is amazingly clear and is completely viewable. Perfect for large gatherings or sporting events. I have a feeling our new setup will get lots of HD action when the Olympics roll around in a few months. Only time we ever had trouble rolling it up was the first few times. No problems since.


Bottom line: I HIGHLY recommend it. Amazing deal for well under $200.


PS: I can't believe this thread is 35 pages long now!!! This certainly is a popular screen.


----------



## WabashMX5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flyNAVY* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bottom line: I HIGHLY recommend it. Amazing deal for well under $200.



Even more amazing for "roughly" 5/8 that amount for our 92". (Hope that doesn't break the rules; I just couldn't resist anymore!)


----------



## WabashMX5

And I forgot to mention a few waves towards the bottom of the screen, but nothing we noticed during yesterday's movie in actual use. I may try keeping it down as much as possible for a couple days and see if that helps. Still, I doubt you'd even notice them with scrolling text over them....


----------



## manufanatic

thanks due to this great forum i purchased one today from buy.com with the free shipping. I will report when i receive.


do have a question i plan to mount this hanging from the ceiling can anyone tell me the distance between the mounts on the screen. I would like to have the hooks up and ready so i can just mount it when it comes. Forgot to mention i have the 92 inch version


thanks


----------



## WabashMX5

I think that it was 86 3/4" (maybe 85 3/4"? I've already forgotten) between the wall-mount eyes on mine, and I think the ceiling-mount hooks have the same spacing. Don't have the numbers in front of me, but that's the ballpark if it helps your planning.


----------



## manufanatic

geez the fedex website said it will be here tomorrow. i cant believe that. WOW


update its at the local Rockledge Fedex today. Man that was quick for 7-9 days shipping! ordered on tuesday its here today...


Hopefully will report tonight!


----------



## koolpuppy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dvdvideo* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there anywhere I can get the grey wolf in Canada?
> 
> 
> If not do the avs guys sell them, and if so who do I contact?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I believe you can get the screens from TigerDirect.ca


----------



## manufanatic

well I received the screen yesterday and of course there is a huge dent right in the middle of the case on both sides. this screen was purchased from buy.com. it was obvious to me that the FEDEX people did this since the box had a hole in it.


It dosnt impact the quality of the screen and i really dont want to have to pay to ship it back unless buy.com will send me a new one and pick up the old one for free. The roll up mechanism sucks as others have reported


as far as the performance



Wow is all i can say what a difference from the white dry wall. I cant believe it could be this much better. I will try to post some images later maybe of the HD football today..


I robot was breathtaking on HBOHD last night and i watched Gladiator and Schindlers list last night.


So as others have said


Performance is a knock out but the shipping QC issues need to be sorted


----------



## Bud Fox

I just purchased an Infocus 4805 and a 106" Graywolf. I've got the projector rear shelf mounted about 3' above our heads.


My wife would really like me to ceiling mount it. (The rear shelf is not a bookcase but a single shelf above a window that is not very appealling, aesthetically.)


My question is this: If I ceiling mount the pj, am I only losing the extra gain? Will the quality and contrast still be good? I don't care too much about the gain, since I have no light control and only use the pj at night.


Another way to rephrase this...will ceiling mounting a pj make the graywolf worse than a "typical" gray screen? (typical meaning modest cost or whatever).


Thanks,


Bud


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Bud Fox* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just purchased an Infocus 4805 and a 106" Graywolf. I've got the projector rear shelf mounted about 3' above our heads.
> 
> 
> My wife would really like me to ceiling mount it. (The rear shelf is not a bookcase but a single shelf above a window that is not very appealling, aesthetically.)
> 
> 
> My question is this: If I ceiling mount the pj, am I only losing the extra gain? Will the quality and contrast still be good? I don't care too much about the gain, since I have no light control and only use the pj at night.
> 
> 
> Another way to rephrase this...will ceiling mounting a pj make the graywolf worse than a "typical" gray screen? (typical meaning modest cost or whatever).
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Bud




I havent heard the 4805 having issues with greyscreens like some of the ceiling mounted LCDs like my ae900u. I think you should be fine. Hey i just moved from the central coast (Lompoc) I really miss the scenery but i did make a very nice profit on my house.


what part of SLO do you live in?


----------



## rbastedo

I just got mine today, it is so cool. I can watch with light coming in the windows now!


This does look good, and I haven't even seen it in the dark yet!!


There was one small dent in the housing, but it was on the back side.


----------



## Greg Matty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I havent heard the 4805 having issues with greyscreens like some of the ceiling mounted LCDs like my ae900u. I think you should be fine. Hey i just moved from the central coast (Lompoc) I really miss the scenery but i did make a very nice profit on my house.
> 
> 
> what part of SLO do you live in?




Shouldn't ceiling mount be independent of PJ technology? When someone says the greywolf's retroreflective nature makes a ceiling mounted AE900 (from your post I am not saying this is the case) look bad, why wouldn't a DLP have the same issues in the same position?


Greg


----------



## Greg Matty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *manufanatic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> well I received the screen yesterday and of course there is a huge dent right in the middle of the case on both sides. this screen was purchased from buy.com. it was obvious to me that the FEDEX people did this since the box had a hole in it.
> 
> 
> It dosnt impact the quality of the screen and i really dont want to have to pay to ship it back unless buy.com will send me a new one and pick up the old one for free. The roll up mechanism sucks as others have reported
> 
> 
> as far as the performance
> 
> 
> 
> Wow is all i can say what a difference from the white dry wall. I cant believe it could be this much better. I will try to post some images later maybe of the HD football today..
> 
> 
> I robot was breathtaking on HBOHD last night and i watched Gladiator and Schindlers list last night.
> 
> 
> So as others have said
> 
> 
> Performance is a knock out but the shipping QC issues need to be sorted




Which PJ are you using and is it ceiling mounted?


Greg


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg Matty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shouldn't ceiling mount be independent of PJ technology? When someone says the greywolf's retroreflective nature makes a ceiling mounted AE900 (from your post I am not saying this is the case) look bad, why wouldn't a DLP have the same issues in the same position?
> 
> 
> Greg




My ae900u is mounted on the top of my bdi axis 8022 stand

http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/axis_8022.shtml 


I have read other posters here saying that there is some issues with this projector ceiling mounted with this screen. I believe for most of us there wouldnt be an issue.


The screen is great but as i said the housing or how they pack the housing needs to be addressed. there really is no excuse for it to arrive with multiple dents.

I believe if you look in this thread there is some talk about the issue of ceiling mounting and this screen.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg Matty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Which PJ are you using and is it ceiling mounted?
> 
> 
> Greg




Panny AE900U mounted on the axis 8022 from BDI

http://www.bdiusa.com/avfurniture/axis_8022.shtml


----------



## rbastedo

My H31 is ceiling mounted but it is a angled ceiling behind my seating so it is only about 6 ft high. This puts it less than 2 feet above our heads, and I really could see no difference moving all around my seating area. I admit my seating area is small, but my whole HT is small so I don't think it could ever be an issue for my set up.


They did have some styrofoam in the box, and there was very little sign of abuse to the outside of the box - yet there was a dent about the size of a nickel up on the right end near the back top of the housing. I think they would have to encase it in padding to keep these things from happening.


The extra experienced brightness really helps, my wife can sit & read & I am not nearly a distracted as before by the ambient light.

Colors seem better, everything has more pop!


----------



## Starman1

*I have the 106" Optoma Greywolf Screen with 1.8 gain. Currently I am using my PJ as table top mount about 2 1/2 feet from the floor and about 12 feet from the screen. I watched Saving Private Ryan and Star Wars Revenge of the Sith and you talking about a jaw dropping display! I even had lights on in adjacent rooms and the picture never washed out. I actually had to dim the PJ-Optoma H27 because it was too bright. I plan on mounting my PJ from the ceiling after completion of my dedicated HT. I hope I still get the quality screen image from the Greywolf despite what I have heard of this being a retroreflective screen not designed for ceiling mounts, if I understand right from previous post. If not I will arrange to put it tabletop which I really don't want too. Also I had two small dents on the top front case of my Greywolf screen, but not visable after mounting it on the wall. I must say I am very happy with the screen image so far. As a previous poster mentioned the shipping box was not banged up from outward appearances but there was minimal damage to the case as previously noted.*


----------



## ptaaty

I am looking for a roughly 80" Graywolf. Darin had mentioned having one before, anyone know where I could buy a 16:9 Graywolf that is about 80"??? Or if not some options for a Gray screen in roughly the same price range?


Thanks!


----------



## ARfromAfar

I just received my graywolf from bhphoto, shipped on Monday and it arrived to me in Toronto today, Wednesday.


I just rolled it down, I am pleased that I got one without any dents on the case or more importantly, the lighter area on top where the plastic was. The only thing I noticed was some waves at the lower 1/4 area of the screen on the sides, but like I said, I just rolled it down a few minutes ago (to air it out), they may go away.

Tigerdirect canada which is 20 minutes away from me unfortunately does not have these, but I'm happy with this purchase. Can't wait to fire up a film...final exams won't allow me time until the weekend.


ptatty, I think your best bet would be to buy the 92", remove the screen material and mount it on a permanent frame. At this price, you can't go wrong.


----------



## ptaaty




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ARfromAfar* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just received my graywolf from bhphoto, shipped on Monday and it arrived to me in Toronto today, Wednesday.
> 
> 
> I just rolled it down, I am pleased that I got one without any dents on the case or more importantly, the lighter area on top where the plastic was. The only thing I noticed was some waves at the lower 1/4 area of the screen on the sides, but like I said, I just rolled it down a few minutes ago (to air it out), they may go away.
> 
> Tigerdirect canada which is 20 minutes away from me unfortunately does not have these, but I'm happy with this purchase. Can't wait to fire up a film...final exams won't allow me time until the weekend.
> 
> 
> ptatty, I think your best bet would be to buy the 92", remove the screen material and mount it on a permanent frame. At this price, you can't go wrong.



I guess I might have to...I was just hoping there was one around without doing that. I guess my christmas break I can try my hand at building one.


----------



## alan2005

Well, I got my second 106" GW screen. No light band this time! Woohoo! There was a minor bend in the case that I was able to carefully bend back. I noticed that the grey area on the new screen just seems better, more uniformly sprayed and not blotchy like the last one. As a result, the screen material is much less noticable during bright screens on the new one. I am extremely happy that I went through the effort to get a second screen.


As for the table mount / ceiling mount debate - I have an AE900 ceiling mounted down to about 6'1/2" (I can barely walk under it without hitting my head). The top of the screen is slightly higher so I can use less vertical lens shift. Like rbastedo said, I can't really tell the difference in light reflected from the screen between standing, sitting, or walking around. Even off to the very extreme sides of the screen the image still looks great (much brighter than any RPTV I've ever seen!). I would say if you want to ceiling mount it, do it. Perhaps if you were mounting it much higher (which the AE900 really won't allow), then you might run into intensity problems, but at the 6' or so level, it works great.


Alan


----------



## talon_3

I got my Grey wolf and I have the light band, but it is no big deal as I only

project a 55" wide image as I am 8' from the screen.

It was in good shape from Buy.com no dents.


The texture is what I cannot get used to.. It detracts from the picture and makes HDTV look soft. Can all of you chime in on the texture?


I can see swirls on the screen in light scenes.

For this reason and this reason only I am thinking of returning it.

It does alot of things right but seeing texture in all light scenes drives me crazy.

















Do you see texure and is this how they all look??

If this is how they look, what screen would you advize?


Please respond so I can decide if this is a defect and send back..


Talon


----------



## flyNAVY




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Do you see texure and is this how they all look?? Talon



Talon,

I don't see any texture. In fact, when I first saw HD on this screen, I had to pinch myself!! Critical viewers have even been surprised by it's clarity, slowly walking up to the screen trying to find the point where they start to notice the texture and/or SDE. It's usually about 4-5 feet away.


Overall, I am 99% pleased with this.


----------



## manufanatic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got my Grey wolf and I have the light band, but it is no big deal as I only
> 
> project a 55" wide image as I am 8' from the screen.
> 
> It was in good shape from Buy.com no dents.
> 
> 
> The texture is what I cannot get used to.. It detracts from the picture and makes HDTV look soft. Can all of you chime in on the texture?
> 
> 
> I can see swirls on the screen in light scenes.
> 
> For this reason and this reason only I am thinking of returning it.
> 
> It does alot of things right but seeing texture in all light scenes drives me crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see texure and is this how they all look??
> 
> If this is how they look, what screen would you advize?
> 
> 
> Please respond so I can decide if this is a defect and send back..
> 
> 
> Talon



I understand what your saying I noticed this during some scenes in WOW and Stealth. however i can deal with it. Im still p od about the dents in the casing though.


----------



## Starman1









I'm curious Talon, how is your PJ mounted? Ceiling or Tabletop? I have not noticed swirls but I have seen what I would describe as sparkles on bright scenes but not often enough to distract me from the awesome screen quality.


----------



## tubaprde

What up all. I'll try to keep this brief...


-I got my AE900 2 weeks ago. Love it.

-Just got my 106" gray hawk. Haven't seen an image on it yet.

-My question: Can I mount the projector from an 8ft ceiling and project the image to the gray hawk from about 11ft away--and still have a great looking picture?

-My concerns: I gotta use a whole lot of vertical lenz shift for this setup--is this bad? And, I gotta use some keystoneing adjustments otherwise it looks like a trapezoid---is this bad?

-Last question: Should i pay the 200$ for the "good" ceiling mount? Can i get a cheapie 50$ one?


Anyone got a setup like this? Thanks for your help!


----------



## MikeSRC

You don't want to use full vertical lens shift with the AE900 if you can avoid it. Full shift causes some misconvergence issues that can not be adjusted. I've found it's best to keep the AE900 mounted such that the lens is within the vertical height limits of the screen. If you're able to do so, place it on a shelf on a back wall. Since the GreyWolf is retroreflective, you also get the most benefit the closer you are (vertically) to the projector. So, keeping the projector inside the height limits of the screen also is the best setup for the GreyWolf.


----------



## tubaprde

Thanks Mike, Very interesting. I have no problem putting it at the back of the room (20 ft long), its just that people will obstruct the image when walking by--something we can just live with i guess...plus i'll save tons o money w/o having to buy long cords/mounts ect... thanks for all your help!


Has anyone tried to mount the grayhawk upside down (pulling the screen up from the case)? I thought that would look cool cause u could hide it in a cabinet from the floor--just a thought (maybe that could cause screen damage though)


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks Mike, Very interesting. I have no problem putting it at the back of the room (20 ft long), its just that people will obstruct the image when walking by--something we can just live with i guess...plus i'll save tons o money w/o having to buy long cords/mounts ect... thanks for all your help!
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried to mount the grayhawk upside down (pulling the screen up from the case)? I thought that would look cool cause u could hide it in a cabinet from the floor--just a thought (maybe that could cause screen damage though)



This is the second post where you mentioned the grayhawk. Do you mean graywolf or are you talking about a different screen?


----------



## alan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *talon_3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got my Grey wolf and I have the light band, but it is no big deal as I only
> 
> project a 55" wide image as I am 8' from the screen.
> 
> It was in good shape from Buy.com no dents.
> 
> 
> The texture is what I cannot get used to.. It detracts from the picture and makes HDTV look soft. Can all of you chime in on the texture?
> 
> 
> I can see swirls on the screen in light scenes.
> 
> For this reason and this reason only I am thinking of returning it.
> 
> It does alot of things right but seeing texture in all light scenes drives me crazy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you see texure and is this how they all look??
> 
> If this is how they look, what screen would you advize?
> 
> 
> Please respond so I can decide if this is a defect and send back..
> 
> 
> Talon



Talon,


Regarding the texture, there seems to be a difference in texture from screen to screen. My first GW screen had horrible blotchy texture which was VERY noticeable during bright screens (good thing it had the bright band problem causing me to exchange it). My second screen has a much finer, smoother texture. Far less noticable during bright scenes. As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, it appears that Optoma has a big QC problem. Bright band, no bright band. Bad texture, good texture. Some people complain about sparklies also. I think I've seen exactly one sparkle... but rarely ever see it.

One last thing to note, I have heard people complaining about texture and sparklies on $2000 screens as well, so you might just want to sit back, enjoy the movie, and be thankful that you saved $1800 on a screen. However, you might have a screen more like my first screen - it might be worth an exchange to see if a second one ends up more to your liking...


Good luck getting a good one!!!


Alan


----------



## JimmyDaves

I have the Panasonic 900 with a 92" Graywolf screen and I feel that the picture quality isn't as good as it could be. The Graywolf seems to make the picture more "grainy" as opposed to showing it on my plain white wall. I like the gain of the screen, but it seems unequal. Light/bright scenes are almost too much and dark scenes are more gray than black. I've tried adjusting the Panasonic to get full effect from this screen, but I must be missing the boat here.


----------



## Jack Gilvey

I picked up a 106" GreyWolf at BB a few days ago out of curiosity since returns are very easy at this one. I've got my Panasonic AE900 shooting from 10.5' back and its mounting height puts it pretty much right in the middle of the new screen with extremely minimal vertical or horizontal shift needed. My head is about 2' below the pj when seated in the middle of the couch, and I'm 10' away from the 92" wide screen. The screen itself looks flawless, no dents in the case and no light-colored area (it did have the plastic at the top) or waves/wrinkles.

My impression is that my room is light-controlled (external and reflected) enough that I'm not seeing many of the benefits others would. Contrast is about the same as with my blackout cloth screen, but there's noticeable dimming from the ends of my couch (still within the screen boundaries) and hotspotting from the middle. My pj is apparently low enough, and my head high enough, that I don't see a huge difference in brightness when I raise my head up to pj level. Brightness at my regular height is fine, even given the retroreflective nature of the screen and the "Cinema 1" setting's relative dimness, but it does drop off at the sides as I mentioned. I'd imagine this would be seen with any screen of appreciable gain given the rather large subtended angle.

I do notice a texture that tends to lend a dirty look to whites, and sparklies are also somewhat evident.

Had I been impressed, I'd have bothered to get a much better price and use the material to cover my 2.35 screen, but I don't think I'll go ahead with that. Given my room conditions and wide angle, I think I'm better served with matte white.

I do plan on bringing this screen to my brother's this weekend and trying it on my 4805 in his white non-light-controlled basement, this screen is really meant to shine under such conditions.


----------



## tubaprde

Typo, sorry, GW -GrayWolf, ---not greyhawk.... Does anyone know the difference between using vertical lenz shift vs. just placing your projector at an angle towards the GW? Is there a quality diff. here?


According to previous threads, there is a difference, brightness or "gain". I try simulating a ceiling mounting tonight and get back to you all what I think. Cheers!


----------



## johnsmith808

I just purchased the graywolf here in Hawaii at CompUSA for msrp because shipping from the mainland was outrageous. Plus, reading on this forum of the QC issues I thought it better to buy it from a place 10 minutes away from my house. I love the screen so far. Thank you contributers to this forum for bringing this screen to our attention. It is really all you've said it was. It's the poor man's firehawk. Either that or the smart man's firehawk. You decide. Running a BenqPe7700(oringinal bulb still going at 460 hours). Black level definitely improved as well as brightness and contrast. Rejects light bouncing of my white carpet and light colored walls as well. I tablemount so it's actually too bright in the dark. Luckily I have a nd2 on the way. Anyway I know posters have mentioned that waves are just part of the nature of pull-down non-tensioned screens but I am wondering how much waves I should accept as normal. When I put up a test grid that covers the whole screen, it looks like a crt with horrible geometry issues. When playing movies or gaming though, I really don't notice it. I also have that horizontal line going across the top third of the screen. It is fairly minor and can only be noticed on videogames on extremely bright areas. My question is should I expect more out of this screen and exchange it in hopes of getting a better one? Or do the majority of these screens have these imperfections?


----------



## Turbo442

First post for me,


I have an NEC LT240K ceiling mounted and the 106" greywolf hanging about mid height on the wall. The Projector is about 16' from the screen and the viewing sofa places your head about 15' from the screen. If I stand up with my head closer to the projector height the image gets brighter. Obviously I can lower the projector but that would put the fan closer to my ear. My question is, If I frame mounted this screen to allow me to pull the top of the screen 6" from the wall but left the bottom tight against the wall, would this screen angle relative to the projector simulate a table mount?


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Turbo442* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First post for me,
> 
> 
> I have an NEC LT240K ceiling mounted and the 106" greywolf hanging about mid height on the wall. The Projector is about 16' from the screen and the viewing sofa places your head about 15' from the screen. If I stand up with my head closer to the projector height the image gets brighter. Obviously I can lower the projector but that would put the fan closer to my ear. My question is, If I frame mounted this screen to allow me to pull the top of the screen 6" from the wall but left the bottom tight against the wall, would this screen angle relative to the projector simulate a table mount?



Besides messing up your geometry, this will not have any effect - the light will reflect back to the source at any angle.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *johnsmith808* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just purchased the graywolf here in Hawaii at CompUSA for msrp because shipping from the mainland was outrageous. Plus, reading on this forum of the QC issues I thought it better to buy it from a place 10 minutes away from my house. I love the screen so far. Thank you contributers to this forum for bringing this screen to our attention. It is really all you've said it was. It's the poor man's firehawk. Either that or the smart man's firehawk. You decide. Running a BenqPe7700(oringinal bulb still going at 460 hours). Black level definitely improved as well as brightness and contrast. Rejects light bouncing of my white carpet and light colored walls as well. I tablemount so it's actually too bright in the dark. Luckily I have a nd2 on the way. Anyway I know posters have mentioned that waves are just part of the nature of pull-down non-tensioned screens but I am wondering how much waves I should accept as normal. When I put up a test grid that covers the whole screen, it looks like a crt with horrible geometry issues. When playing movies or gaming though, I really don't notice it. I also have that horizontal line going across the top third of the screen. It is fairly minor and can only be noticed on videogames on extremely bright areas. My question is should I expect more out of this screen and exchange it in hopes of getting a better one? Or do the majority of these screens have these imperfections?



I've tried 3 different screens - all had almost identical waves. Only 1 had the light band. I think you should try another to get one without the light band, but you may have to live with the waves. Some have said they have screens without waves, but I'll believe it when I see it. You can lessen the waves by using the screen in the fully retracted position or by removing the rod at the bottem altogether.


----------



## ThunderGod66

So would this be a good screen to have if you liked watching TV with some lights on...like a couple 60watt bulbs? I'm about to order the Panasonic ae900u and I'm looking for a decent screen. I've never had a projector before but I usually only turn the lights off when I'm watching a movie and keep them on when I'm watching TV.


----------



## talon_3

Thanks to all who posted on the texture problem. I have been working OT and haven't had any time to check. I just got a frame from a friend and last night I bought some B.O. cloth and attached it all up. It looks great and no TEXTURES. I admit the Graywolf looks great as far as blacks go. It is closer to black and less grey. the brightness was good as long as your in the cone, but I found it to be too narrow. If there were no texture problems I would keep it. For the money spent it did everything said about it in this forum. I just can't live with the textures. They are distracting to me and keep me from really enjoying the movie. I don't get asorbed as usual. My friend looked at it and thought it looked great and the textures never bothered him. (My luck to be so picky).


I have decided that the B.O. looks good for what it is and for less than $10.00 for the cloth it meets the price point.

Now to get the Graywolf back. Hopefully the Graywolf will make it back to Buy.com in one piece and I can get my money back. With my luck probably will get smashed in transit, but it is doing me no good as of now, so back it goes.


Thanks to all who have posted in this thread and glad you had better luck than me with the Graywolf. Thanks to Guitarman for finding this product and spending so much time answering questions etc.


The search goes on...


Talon


----------



## dallasgator

I have a 4805 in a 12x15 light controlled room. I used to just watch on my off white wall, no bashing please, but recently painted the room. I would like to make a screen from the DIY thread but don't really have the time now plus have to deal with the wife factor. My screen size is between 72" and 80" and I don't want to go much bigger due to the small size of my room. I has going to pickup the 76" Infocus just to have something, but it looks like this Graywolf may be what cosumer reports would call a "Best Buy". My question is, would it look rideculous to buy a 92" Graywolf and only project a 75" image? Also, any other recommendations for something in this size range for under $300. I just started reading and will read lots more, but was hoping I could get some quick pointers.


TIA


----------



## talon_3

dallasgator, I don't know about anyone else, but I was projecting a 50" wide image on the Graywolf and it was excellent. Because it is gray it would absorb the light better and for what it cost it is an excellent choice. If it wasn't for the texture problem I would have kept it. Who cares if you utilize the whole screen. With the light band defect that you can read about in this forum you may project an image where even if it has that defect it won't bother you. Mine has it and I never project an image big enough to even worry about it. that's a plus for a smaller image. YMMV though. good luck.


T


----------



## spyfy

Well I supported the Graywolf when I first got it for the ambient light rejection and increased blacks. Problem is I've got a light controlled room and rarely have much if any ambient light. Couple of buddies over for football asked me why I stopped using my old screen I "made." Said it was brighter and didn't have those waves in it. When you're watching sports or ESPN or anything w/ straight lines being displayed the waves really stood out. The convinced me to hang my blackout cloth screen back up to do some A/B comparisons and it was no contest. The BOC had no texture and just displays what the projector puts out w/ no attempt to alter it. Blacks are plenty deep enough and the brightness, color pop and lack of waves makes my $50 BOC screen a much better option for my setup. YMMV. Anyone want a 106" Graywolf on the cheap?


----------



## foobart

In a screen like the Graywolf, at different viewing positions is the only thing that's supposed to change the gain, or do any other characteristics of the picture change, like colors, detail etc. ?


I've got the 92" graywolf with a ceiling mounted 4805, and I'm trying to see if there are better options for my PJ situation.. I'm not completely happy with the "pop" in the colors ..


----------



## crussader

If i ceiling mount, can I get the lost gain back by arranging the screen where it is pulled up rather than pulled down? Or would this only work if the chairs were also attached to the ceiling?


----------



## Yeldarb43

Can anyone send me their settings for the Sharp DT-300 paired with this screen? My calibration seems off. Thanks!


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crussader* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If i ceiling mount, can I get the lost gain back by arranging the screen where it is pulled up rather than pulled down? Or would this only work if the chairs were also attached to the ceiling?



I asked that same question months ago! The simple answer is yes, you'd have to mount your chairs to the cieling as well. The projector has the best seat in the house and the screen will reflect the light back to the source no matter how the screen is oriented. Keeping your eyes as close to the projector as possible will yield the best viewing experience.


I had this screen coupled with my ceiling mounted (84" H) Sharp DT-300 and the picture was only great when I stood up. All the gain (and then some) was lost when I sat down. I sold it.


----------



## Jack Gilvey




> Quote:
> Well I supported the Graywolf when I first got it for the ambient light rejection and increased blacks. Problem is I've got a light controlled room and rarely have much if any ambient light.



I also found that if you don't have the problem the screen is designed to combat (ambient light), you see little benefit and mainly drawback (hotspotting in my case).


----------



## dallasgator




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spyfy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I supported the Graywolf when I first got it for the ambient light rejection and increased blacks. Problem is I've got a light controlled room and rarely have much if any ambient light. Couple of buddies over for football asked me why I stopped using my old screen I made. Said it was brighter and didn't have those waves in it. When you're watching sports or ESPN or anything w/ straight lines being displayed the waves really stood out. The convinced me to hang my blackout cloth screen back up to do some A/B comparisons and it was no contest. The BOC had no texture and just displays what the projector puts out w/ no attempt to alter it. Blacks are plenty deep enough and the brightness, color pop and lack of waves makes my $50 BOC screen a much better option for my setup. YMMV. Anyone want a 106" Graywolf on the cheap?



Sounds like I'd be better off with the Infocus 76" since I have a light controlled room. I ordered the GrayWolf, but think I will cancel and do more research.


----------



## Mgibsoj

I've had the 106" diag. for several months now, with an X1 pj. After having tried various pj locations, it appears the screen is optimized for the projector beam just over the heads of viewers. For my setup, the X1 lens is about 1/3 down from the top of the screen image area (requiring keystone correction with pj upside down) with the tops of the viewer's heads (sitting halfway between pj and screen) casting a shadow just below the bottom of the image (no tall hairdos allowed!). Not sitting off to the side. Ceiling mount above the screen or low table mount has major drawbacks of loss of contrast, brightness, and color saturation (i.e., dull) in comparison (but, to be fair, still quite good). The only apparent problem with this arrangement is a tad of vertical height crush, but only noticeable by the 1" margins at the top and bottom of screen. Using this arrangement, the image produced by the X1 is amazingly bright, detailed, and has pop. The other arrangements did not allow for comfortable sitting in the cone, and this screen performs best with the pj beam straight on. I'm still highly pleased with this screen, as my BO cloth was too much a light sink for the low-lumens X1. The minor waves in my screen are rarely noticeable with this arrangement also, and the pj settings required adjustment to the screen. YMMV, but I'm very picky.


----------



## foobart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I had this screen coupled with my ceiling mounted (84" H) Sharp DT-300 and the picture was only great when I stood up. All the gain (and then some) was lost when I sat down. I sold it.



Itsdon,


What did you replace this with?


I'm trying to use this with a ceiling mounted 4805, and I'm not sure I like the colors..


If you think you've got the setup running to your satisfaction, could you do a demo for me? I live in Fremont and work in Sunnyvale so shouldn't be too far from you.. You can PM me..


Thx.


----------



## Itsdon

I replaced it with a Da-Lite HiPower and the difference in picture quality was superb. I still have a little cone issue and that bothers me - I hate not having the absolute best picture possible from my seated position. The HiPower delivers a much more satifying picture than the Gray Wolf ever did, but I'm sure it's because I was using it with a fairly low lumen PJ that was ceiling mounted. I'm currently trying out a Fotodiox 92" 1.3 gain high contrast screen (eBay) and am pretty impressed with it. The quality of the case and materials is not up to Da-Lite stands but not having a cone issue 'at all' is very refreshing. The picture is great at every angle. I haven't found the perfect PJ/screen match yet (I did with the PJ/DVD player -Sony NS70H) so I'm still looking for that elusive mix. The Gray Wolf however simply didn't cut it.


----------



## crussader

Can someone give me a height measurement of the 106" screen at full extension from the top of the case to the bottom of the rod across the bottom of the screen?


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *crussader* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone give me a height measurement of the 106" screen at full extension from the top of the case to the bottom of the rod across the bottom of the screen?



70 3/4"


----------



## crussader

Thanks much Airboss!


----------



## crussader

Ok, my mounting delima comes down to this. If I ceiling mount the screen I have to drop the the top of the case 24" below the ceiling. If I wall mount, I need the screen to drop 16" away from the wall. Anybody got a suggestion for either option that won't look too out of place in a family room (think WAF)???


All ideas greatly appreciated.


----------



## johnsmith808

Is it true that the graywolf actually raises the black level because of the screen gain? At first, I thought it lowered it, but in a completely dark scene with no bright whites to contrast with the black, the black level was actually higher. So in reality, this screen does not benefit you if you are going for the lowest black level, but is great for improving contrast and perceived black level in a mixed bright/dark scene.


I'm using a Benq Pe7700 on a 92 inch screen. If more brightness is not my concern, would going for a gray screen with a 0.8 gain be better for lowering actual black level? I previously had a Sony rptv crt and really miss those blacks. Any suggestions on which screen to get? Also do these type of screens really kill the pop of a projector?


----------



## jonnyozero3

AFAIK, my graywolf was darker on a full black screen than the white blackout cloth I had. I haven't had the BO up in awhile though. I don't think the actual black level is raised, but I could be wrong and skewed by "perception"...


----------



## SteelyFan

If your walls are white/off-while, the retro-reflective nature of the GreyWolf screens means less light is going to bounce back from the walls, and thus improve your black level.


The negative side effect of this is a decrease in screen brighness when moving away from the axis of projection (sort of like how the image brightness goes down when standing up if watching an old RPTV).


----------



## foobart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I replaced it with a Da-Lite HiPower and the difference in picture quality was superb. I still have a little cone issue and that bothers me - I hate not having the absolute best picture possible from my seated position. The HiPower delivers a much more satifying picture than the Gray Wolf ever did, but I'm sure it's because I was using it with a fairly low lumen PJ that was ceiling mounted. I'm currently trying out a Fotodiox 92" 1.3 gain high contrast screen (eBay) and am pretty impressed with it. The quality of the case and materials is not up to Da-Lite stands but not having a cone issue 'at all' is very refreshing. The picture is great at every angle. I haven't found the perfect PJ/screen match yet (I did with the PJ/DVD player -Sony NS70H) so I'm still looking for that elusive mix. The Gray Wolf however simply didn't cut it.



Itsdon,


Did you try the Da-lite HCMW ? It's got pretty good reviews from its owners, right?


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *foobart* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Itsdon,
> 
> 
> Did you try the Da-lite HCMW ? It's got pretty good reviews from its owners, right?



I did, the HCMW was actually my first screen. It was a 4:3 that I used with my X1. Loved the screen with the X1 & 4805 but when I upgraded to the DT-300 the screen /PJ combo produced a 'moire' pattern that was very visible during white scenes. I attempted everything to get rid of it but was unsuccessful. Da-Lite tech support swore up and down that what I was seeing couldn't be possible. I snapped some photos of the anomaly and e-mailed them to Da-Lite. They hemmed and hawed and scratched their collective heads but couldn't come up with a solution. Neither the High Power, the Gray Wolf or the Fotodiox have this issue. It's a strange HCMW/DT-300 issue. Great screen otherwise.


----------



## foobart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did, the HCMW was actually my first screen. It was a 4:3 that I used with my X1. Loved the screen with the X1 & 4805 but when I upgraded to the DT-300 the screen /PJ combo produced a 'moire' pattern that was very visible during white scenes. I attempted everything to get rid of it but was unsuccessful. Da-Lite tech support swore up and down that what I was seeing couldn't be possible. I snapped some photos of the anomaly and e-mailed them to Da-Lite. They hemmed and hawed and scratched their collective heads but couldn't come up with a solution. Neither the High Power, the Gray Wolf or the Fotodiox have this issue. It's a strange HCMW/DT-300 issue. Great screen otherwise.



I'm trying to find the right screen for my 4805 (ceiling mount). I'm happy with using it only in the nights, because it's the living room and complete daytime light control is a dream and I don't want to compromise on the night-time experience. Walls and ceiling are beige, but the ceiling is vaulted. I don't want to optimize for the third order effects, but want good picture with punch. PJ is mounted 14 ft from screen, at 7.5 ft height.


How would you compare HCMW and Hi-power for this ?


Have you found any local dealers in the bay area for Da-lite products? Frys has the Optoma screens but didn't find any Da-Lite 16:9s .


----------



## johnsmith808

I stand corrected on my earlier post about the graywolf raising black level. I finally did a simultaneous comparison with my da-lite high contrast matte white and could noticeably tell that the graywolf was definitely darker on a pure black image. For some reason when I put up the screens one at a time to compare, I thought the graywolf was lighter. My bad.


----------



## Dex

Great thread folks!!! I was all set to buy an Elite screen and then noticed this one in the store (GrayWolf 92"), and decided to come here and see if anyone knew anything. I'll be getting one now for sure!!!


By the way, an online retailer to try is http://www.tigerdirect.ca (there may be a dot.com version, they seem multinational).


I'm in Toronto Canada and there's two physical stores here and they have stacks of different projector screens to pick from.


----------



## tubaprde

Hi Everyone,


Here's my setup:

ae900u, 12 feet back, 106 greywolf, 1 inch above the screen. -use of lenz shift, but def. not 100% of it.


-its really dark when viewing from the couch or any sitting position, 2-5 feet off the floor







I really need to get a different screen, this one is not going to work, this setup makes my regular wall look a ton brighter than the greywolf.


Anyone else run into problems like this? What screen did u go for next?


lates


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Greg Matty* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Shouldn't ceiling mount be independent of PJ technology? When someone says the greywolf's retroreflective nature makes a ceiling mounted AE900 (from your post I am not saying this is the case) look bad, why wouldn't a DLP have the same issues in the same position?
> 
> 
> Greg



THIS IS SOOO TRUE...!


----------



## alan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> 
> Here's my setup:
> 
> ae900u, 12 feet back, 106 greywolf, 1 inch above the screen. -use of lenz shift, but def. not 100% of it.
> 
> 
> -its really dark when viewing from the couch or any sitting position, 2-5 feet off the floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really need to get a different screen, this one is not going to work, this setup makes my regular wall look a ton brighter than the greywolf.
> 
> 
> Anyone else run into problems like this? What screen did u go for next?
> 
> 
> lates



How high is your 900 mounted? What is your room like? White/Black walls? (I'm not sure I can comment about the screen performance regarding wall colors, etc, but maybe somebody else can.) My setup is as follows:


106" GW screen (obviously) , AE900U center lens mounted at about 6'2", slightly into the screen, 14-15' back from screen. Seating about a foot in front of the projector. I am in an unfinished basement with medium brown carpet - so not optimal conditions. I think there is minimal difference between standing and sitting when in the center of the screen. I have noticed that the further you get to the left or right from center the more the image dims, but it's still an enjoyable picture, and it's still brighter than any RPTV that I have seen at moderate to extreme angles.


Friends that recently came over were blown away by the picture and said I should charge admission. (I was sitting the most off-axis and still completely enjoyed the movie, SW-E3) Although, I suppose that comment was from amateur eyes compared to what ultra critical FP enthusiasts might say.... As for myself, I am a first time projector/screen owner and I'm loving it! Take it with a grain of salt, but I don't think I could be much happier with the setup/combo for the price.


Alan


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *alan2005* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How high is your 900 mounted? What is your room like? White/Black walls? (I'm not sure I can comment about the screen performance regarding wall colors, etc, but maybe somebody else can.) My setup is as follows:
> 
> 
> 106" GW screen (obviously) , AE900U center lens mounted at about 6'2", slightly into the screen, 14-15' back from screen. Seating about a foot in front of the projector. I am in an unfinished basement with medium brown carpet - so not optimal conditions. I think there is minimal difference between standing and sitting when in the center of the screen. I have noticed that the further you get to the left or right from center the more the image dims, but it's still an enjoyable picture, and it's still brighter than any RPTV that I have seen at moderate to extreme angles.
> 
> 
> Friends that recently came over were blown away by the picture and said I should charge admission. (I was sitting the most off-axis and still completely enjoyed the movie, SW-E3) Although, I suppose that comment was from amateur eyes compared to what ultra critical FP enthusiasts might say.... As for myself, I am a first time projector/screen owner and I'm loving it! Take it with a grain of salt, but I don't think I could be much happier with the setup/combo for the price.
> 
> 
> Alan



Thanks Alan. I think you're giving me hope with this screen... we have very similar setups. Mine is in a living room, white walls and ceilings, but at night time is very dark. I'll jot down the exact distances and post again in a few minutes...god i hope i didnt mount the pj to close to the screen!


----------



## tubaprde

OK. 8ft ceiling. Screen is 8 inches from ceiling, projector is also exactly 8 inches from ceiling. Projector is 11 feet 9 inches back... eeek, maybe thats my problem. This is my first pj too, but i can see that the picture gets loads brighter when i climb a latter and put my face next to the lenz (or even sitting vs. standing).


Alan- it sounds like your pj is setup more 2ft further back than mine... maybe thats the issue? B/c mine is so close to the screen, i gota use a ton of lens shift...arg! OH, but your screen is a foot lower than mine too...that could be the problem i'm having.... your lens is within 3 feeet or so of veiwing from the couch--mine is about 4 feet 5 inches.


Also, do you have a problem with the bottom of the image bending? Its like the middle bottom is 1inch higher than the lower right and left bottom portions of the screen?


Maybe if i mount it lower (like 12 inches) it wouild be better? ---THE WIFE HATES THAT IDEA, and i dont blame her there. My head would almost bang into the thing. argggg.


ANYONE????? HELLLP! THANK YOU!


----------



## wwu123

There have been several discussions of the effects of ceiling mounting and vertical lens shift, but I'm not sure how to apply those to horizontal lens shift.


Could those who have the Graywolf advise whether it might be suitable for my particular situation? My primary interest is ambient light control from floor-to-ceiling windows with no drapes. My concern is where the viewing cone is with extreme horizontal lens shift, and furthermore whether the retroreflective screen will help given my window locations.


My current setup is a Z2 projecting on a 7' wide Da Lite matte white. The couch is 12 feet away against the opposite wall. The projector sits on a AV rack next to the couch, about the same height as one's head when sitting on the couch, and almost no vertical lens shift. This being the living room, the couch location ends up centered with the screen, therefore the projector sits at the right edge of the screen, and I'm using the limits of the horizontal lens shift.


If one is sitting in the middle of the 7' couch then, about 4 feet to the left of the projector, will the left edge of the screen start to dim because of the much sharper angle from the projector? What happens when sitting at the far end of the couch, about lined up with the left edge of the screen?


To complicate things, the floor-to-ceiling windows start about 1.5' to the right of the projector along the back wall. There's nine feet of windows along the back wall, and then a 90 deg corner with 12 more feet. There's no direct sunlight landing on any interior wall or floor, but the indirect light from all that glass (plus white walls and carpet) makes the white screen unviewable until sunset. Can I expect indirect light coming in from the closest window to have almost no attentuation, since it's literally next to the projector, while there fairly good attenuation of the farther windows, which are more severely off to the side of the screen?


----------



## tubaprde

ahhh-- i think i found the problem with the "bowing effect on the bottom of the image...i think its just the waves in the screen... one side of the screen is closer to the pj than the other...



wwu

--i would not recomend this screen for that config u have...the light from the screen will bounce back to the pj...not the audiance...-just my thoughts


----------



## Dex

I'm not well versed in the terms people use here, but I too notice that the screen is brighter when I watch from closer to the projector's level. My projector is at about 7 ft up from floor, my seating is below by ~5 ft, and from the seating I can clearly see the reflection/light strength isn't as strong.


I know this sounds a little odd, but what about pulling the bottom of the screen back a few inches from the top of the screen? (assuming a ceiling mount not flush with the wall). The way I see it, this would change the angle the screen is reflecting at, and then keystone correction could help compensate for the shift of image size on the bottom of the screen.


Has anyone tried this? I mounted my screen in a temporary fashion for now, and am evaluating these issues before I get out the hammer drill.


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not well versed in the terms people use here, but I too notice that the screen is brighter when I watch from closer to the projector's level. My projector is at about 7 ft up from floor, my seating is below by ~5 ft, and from the seating I can clearly see the reflection/light strength isn't as strong.
> 
> 
> I know this sounds a little odd, but what about pulling the bottom of the screen back a few inches from the top of the screen? (assuming a ceiling mount not flush with the wall). The way I see it, this would change the angle the screen is reflecting at, and then keystone correction could help compensate for the shift of image size on the bottom of the screen.
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried this? I mounted my screen in a temporary fashion for now, and am evaluating these issues before I get out the hammer drill.



I see what your saying here, and it sounds logical to me. However, if you read back in this forum there is someone else who asked the same question, and as I recall, at least one replied with flat out no answer, it won't help, the image will still be projected back to the pj at the same angle. -I wish optoma made a non-retroreflective GW screen... oh, and when i called them, the guy i talked to had no idea what i was talking about... go figure


How far back is your pj from the screen DEX? is the lens inline with the top of your screen?


----------



## Dex

My projector is ~ 13 ft back from the screen, and it's level with the top of the grey portion of the screen, ie. lower than the very top by just a few inches.


I can't see why a change in angle of the screen wouldn't help the issue. Mind you, I'm not overly upset about the lower brightness from the viewing area, but it has made me wonder if I should try to resolve it or not.


----------



## tubaprde

gotcha, yeah, its not a really big deal for me, its just that it bugs me to know that i could have a "better" picture--if i stand up, or secure the couch to the ceiling










anyone here got a recomendation for a screen like the GW, but reflects on an angle?


----------



## CraigW

I finally finished the room and got the ceiling mounted DT300 paired with the GW.


I will agree with Itsdon that the brightness definately drops off while seated but its not enough to be a deal breaker for me.


The setup info:


DT300 ceiling mounted with the lens at about 80" from the floor and and a little over 9' from the screen.

GW bottom of image about 38" from the floor.

First row about 11' back with viewers eyes @ 42"

Second row about 16' back with viewers eyes @ 51".


The second row definately gets the advantage of a brighter image.


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CraigW* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finally finished the room and got the ceiling mounted DT300 paired with the GW.
> 
> 
> I will agree with Itsdon that the brightness definately drops off while seated but its not enough to be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> 
> The setup info:
> 
> 
> DT300 ceiling mounted with the lens at about 80" from the floor and and a little over 9' from the screen.
> 
> GW bottom of image about 38" from the floor.
> 
> First row about 11' back with viewers eyes @ 42"
> 
> Second row about 16' back with viewers eyes @ 51".
> 
> 
> The second row definately gets the advantage of a brighter image.




How far back is your pj from the screen? Do you have to use keystone? I'm using negative 3, not that much.


----------



## CraigW




> Quote:
> How far back is your pj from the screen?





> Quote:
> a little over 9' from the screen.





> Quote:
> Do you have to use keystone?



Not using any right now, but I have to tilt the screen a little on the right side to square it up better. I need more time, but with the holidays coming up and guest arriving shortly it will have to do for now.


----------



## alan2005




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK. 8ft ceiling. Screen is 8 inches from ceiling, projector is also exactly 8 inches from ceiling. Projector is 11 feet 9 inches back... eeek, maybe thats my problem. This is my first pj too, but i can see that the picture gets loads brighter when i climb a latter and put my face next to the lenz (or even sitting vs. standing).
> 
> 
> Alan- it sounds like your pj is setup more 2ft further back than mine... maybe thats the issue? B/c mine is so close to the screen, i gota use a ton of lens shift...arg! OH, but your screen is a foot lower than mine too...that could be the problem i'm having.... your lens is within 3 feeet or so of veiwing from the couch--mine is about 4 feet 5 inches.
> 
> 
> Also, do you have a problem with the bottom of the image bending? Its like the middle bottom is 1inch higher than the lower right and left bottom portions of the screen?
> 
> 
> Maybe if i mount it lower (like 12 inches) it wouild be better? ---THE WIFE HATES THAT IDEA, and i dont blame her there. My head would almost bang into the thing. argggg.
> 
> 
> ANYONE????? HELLLP! THANK YOU!




Tubaprde,


I think the main difference is the height at which your projector is located (and the lens shift may be making matters worse). Since mine is about 2' lower than your's, I would have to stick my head down an additional 2' to get the same light drop-off. If I get a chance, I'll try that tonight and see what I think.


If your wife can handle it, maybe you two can split the difference and mount the projector down to 7'.... or 6'6" if she's bad at math.










Alan


EDIT - I forgot - I'm not experiencing any image bowing. The picture is great!


----------



## tubaprde

Thanks. Yeah, thats a good idea, trying to mount it a bit lower... to bad they don't make electical sliding projector mounts...


----------



## corba

i sure would like to find a online retailer that has the 106" GW in stock (most are selling at 1/2 MSRP, when they have stock.....)


a friend got the 92", looked good.


anybody know of one?


DIY Silverscreen is looking better all the time......


----------



## jkresh

corba, did you find anyone who as the 106 in stock?


----------



## anjony

Just got the 92" model. I am having the darndest time retracdting this screen. I have tried all angles and tips in this forum to no avail. Funniest thing though is if i take it down from the ceiling and lay it on the floor, it retracts back no problem. Any suggestions?


Also, when fully extended, i noticed the black mask is uneven meaning the right side is the full 12" while the left side as i measured is approx 11.5"....is this normal?



Thanks for any input


----------



## corba




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkresh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> corba, did you find anyone who as the 106 in stock?



no, i'll build DIY silverscreen if i dont find one in a few weeks, i've heard they are better.


----------



## Dex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *anjony* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just got the 92" model. I am having the darndest time retracdting this screen. I have tried all angles and tips in this forum to no avail. Funniest thing though is if i take it down from the ceiling and lay it on the floor, it retracts back no problem. Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> Also, when fully extended, i noticed the black mask is uneven meaning the right side is the full 12" while the left side as i measured is approx 11.5"....is this normal?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for any input



Yeah, same challenge for me. The trick is simply to pull quickly, then raise even faster and it'll go. Sharp pull, raise really fast.


I think mine is getting better the more I raise it.


----------



## lax01

has anyone had any problem with using one of these permanently? I was thinking of hanging a fixed wall screen from the ceiling but now that I think about it, thats pretty useless...just hanging dead weight....what I was thinking was, hanging a GrayWolf from the ceiling and just leaving it there permantently...has anyone tried it?


Anyone know a good place in Washington DC that stocks these screens? Do they sell these in any major chains? Or know of any online store that would ship pretty fast? I'm anxious to get a screen and I think the GrayWolf is the answer...


----------



## derek murray

The attached sketch shows the general layout of my basement rec room / kids play area / music room.... and home theater. I have read and re-read this thread (well most of it) many times and would appreciate a Graywolf owners opinion on whether this screen will work for me... or in other words, are the benefits of this screen taken full advantage of and the drawbacks minimized.


The HT is in the basement with the wall behind the sofa being dark grey and all others being off-white. The carpet is darker, but the ceiling is dead white. The 92" screen will be hung from a low 7.5' high ceiling, just behind a small bulkhead... located about 11' from where we sit. The projector will be shelf mounted behind the sofa with the lens centred within the upper 1/3 of the screen or about 18-24" above my seated head.


For some of the time there will be no ambient light other than what bounces around the room from the projector. However, from time to time, we will want to have a pot light or two just slightly on.


I hope this adequately describes my situation and I look forward to any and all replies.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lax01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has anyone had any problem with using one of these permanently? I was thinking of hanging a fixed wall screen from the ceiling but now that I think about it, thats pretty useless...just hanging dead weight....what I was thinking was, hanging a GrayWolf from the ceiling and just leaving it there permantently...has anyone tried it?
> 
> 
> Anyone know a good place in Washington DC that stocks these screens? Do they sell these in any major chains? Or know of any online store that would ship pretty fast? I'm anxious to get a screen and I think the GrayWolf is the answer...



There is no reason why you can't leave the screen permanantly in the down position. I live in Maryland and bought one locally at the Best Buy in Columbia. I would suggest you go to their website and check their inventory online at the stores closest to you. The downside is you will pay full MSRP (300), but the upshot is that you can return it with no questions asked for 30 days without having to fool around with shipping it back...


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *derek murray* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The attached sketch shows the general layout of my basement rec room / kids play area / music room.... and home theater. I have read and re-read this thread (well most of it) many times and would appreciate a Graywolf owners opinion on whether this screen will work for me... or in other words, are the benefits of this screen taken full advantage of and the drawbacks minimized.
> 
> 
> The HT is in the basement with the wall behind the sofa being dark grey and all others being off-white. The carpet is darker, but the ceiling is dead white. The 92" screen will be hung from a low 7.5' high ceiling, just behind a small bulkhead... located about 11' from where we sit. The projector will be shelf mounted behind the sofa with the lens centred within the upper 1/3 of the screen or about 18-24" above my seated head.
> 
> 
> For some of the time there will be no ambient light other than what bounces around the room from the projector. However, from time to time, we will want to have a pot light or two just slightly on.
> 
> 
> I hope this adequately describes my situation and I look forward to any and all replies.



This screen should work very well for your situation. Having the projector close to eye level is the key. However, it sounds like ambient light is not too bad in your situation....I might choose the dalite HP over the graywolf due to better overall quality and NO WAVES. The GW is a very good screen for fighting ambient light. If that is not a huge issue, I would not recommend it to anyone, and I own one. Check out my thread comparing a HP and GW to see a direct comparison with screen shots.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is no reason why you can't leave the screen permanantly in the down position. I live in Maryland and bought one locally at the Best Buy in Columbia. I would suggest you go to their website and check their inventory online at the stores closest to you. The downside is you will pay full MSRP (300), but the upshot is that you can return it with no questions asked for 30 days without having to fool around with shipping it back...




yup, I got mine today at CompUSA in Gaithersburg....$199....the box was a little beat up and they obviously haven't sold too many of them (date on the screen was May)...should be up tommorow...can't wait to see how it looks with the AE900...any special calibration tricks with the 900?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I replaced it with a Da-Lite HiPower and the difference in picture quality was superb. I still have a little cone issue and that bothers me - I hate not having the absolute best picture possible from my seated position. The HiPower delivers a much more satifying picture than the Gray Wolf ever did, but I'm sure it's because I was using it with a fairly low lumen PJ that was ceiling mounted. I'm currently trying out a Fotodiox 92" 1.3 gain high contrast screen (eBay) and am pretty impressed with it. The quality of the case and materials is not up to Da-Lite stands but not having a cone issue 'at all' is very refreshing. The picture is great at every angle. I haven't found the perfect PJ/screen match yet (I did with the PJ/DVD player -Sony NS70H) so I'm still looking for that elusive mix. The Gray Wolf however simply didn't cut it.




Interesting and I have another opinion.


I have the high power and graywolf setup at the same time. I use the graywolf exclusively. I have to use it with the H79 because the H79 in econo tuned is 600lumens. Another PJ I use is the HT1000 (-300lumens) and it looks better on the graywolf compared to the HP. Mainly I get what I like for HT, a deeper image with much stronger color. There's no right way, this comes down to taste. Deeper blacks/deeper colors or whiter whites, raised blacks and less saturated color. It's really a personal choice.


Users that shelf mount or table mount with the Graywolf get both advantages. I found that when you're in the cone you still retain good black and color saturation even though the whites or bright parts in the scene glow out more.


I would say to Graywolf owners to relax and revile in the richness of the image.



















It's a $150 screen.


----------



## DreamCatcher











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Interesting and I have another opinion.
> 
> 
> I have the high power and graywolf setup at the same time. I use the graywolf exclusively. I have to use it with the H79 because the H79 in econo tuned is 600lumens. Another PJ I use is the HT1000 (-300lumens) and it looks better on the graywolf compared to the HP. Mainly I get what I like for HT, a deeper image with much stronger color. There's no right way, this comes down to taste. Deeper blacks/deeper colors or whiter whites, raised blacks and less saturated color. It's really a personal choice.
> 
> 
> Users that shelf mount or table mount with the Graywolf get both advantages. I found that when you're in the cone you still retain good black and color saturation even though the whites or bright parts in the scene glow out more.
> 
> 
> I would say to Graywolf owners to relax and revile in the richness of the image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a $150 screen.



Well said.... in my case, the 106" GrayWolf, it's a $200 screen for crying out loud!

And a darn good one even at three times the price









Right now watching the ESPN HD NFL highlights.... crazy good picture!


dc


----------



## Devedander

I tried searching the thread but can't really figure out what to search for...


The biggest I can get my picture is 85 inches diag. I am looking at making my own screen but with the 92" graywolf going for a 125 (am I allowed to say that?) it's tempting... problem is I would have to some how cover up the remaing screen.


I was thinking some wide electricians tape or something but figured this might be bad for the screen as it gets rolled up and such.


Is this a bad idea to even try?


----------



## jkresh

tape would be a bad idea, try black felt or something like that


----------



## lax01

just watched Fantastic 4 and the BSG Mini-series and both looked absolutely incredible on the 92" Graywolf...everyone is incredibly impressed with it


Can't wait to try HD next week


----------



## johnsmith808

Are they no longer making the 106" graywolf? Can't find it anywhere. Anybody know anything about this? 92" is widely available but no 106" I can find.


----------



## jkresh

bestbuy still has the 106, at about retail, but no shipping since you can pick it up.


----------



## johnsmith808

Thanks for the tip. I just went down to Best Buy but they were sold out. Had to prepay for one that was still in their California warehouse(I'm in Hawaii). They said should be here in about 2 weeks or less.


----------



## Dex

I just wanted to give some comments on my 92" now that I've had a chance to run it through all the input types I have, namely TV, sports on TV, fullscreen DVD, widescreen, and of course XBox










First off, I've got the projector mounted about 4 feet to the right of my couch around 2 feet down from the ceiling. This is due to a trapezoid shaped room. So, I'm not at the optimal seating location. At first this bugged me but I've now decided I'm just fine with it as moving my projector or screen aren't feasible. It's a minor difference to me now.


After projecting all kinds of things onto this screen, I can now say I LOVE IT! I'm extremely impressed with the vividness of everything. Colours look fantastic and seem to "pop", blacks and grey scenes look really rich, bright scenes aren't washed out as they were with my previous black-out cloth.


The texture of the screen becomes apparent with things like watching hockey (ie. a lot of camera panning with a white background), but it's not something that bothers me too much.


XBox gaming is very impressive! I have an old Xbox with the HD pack, and running with all XBOX HD options enabled (ie all up to 1080), it looks awesome. Games like NHL2006 are crisp without being too bright, darker shadowy games like FarCry look much richer as well. I used to think whiteout cloth looked alright, and it did, but with this grey screen I'm definitely seeing things a lot better, from the darkest scenes through to the brightest.


I couldn't make much use of my old screen during the daytime because it looked so washed out and I had to brighten the projector image a lot to make everything visible. With this new screen, somehow it works a lot better daytime or night, lights on in the room or not.


The retroflective format of the screen is interesting because I now have a noticeably reduced amount of light reflecting in the room. This really helps enhance the "theatre" feel of the screen.


The retracting of the screen was initially a problem, but now it's working much better. I give it a quick yank, then help it run up quickly and voila, it's closed. I think part of the issue is learning how it works, part is the screen breaking in a little.


Overall, I know I can get more from the screen by repositioning my projector, but at this point it's not that big a deal and I'm sooooo pleased with the screen I just don't see any need to improve things right now.


The last screen I had was a DIY blackout cloth. Cost: ~$40. This new one, cost ~220 CDN, and I think even at twice the price it would be a great value.


To give you an idea of what I'm working with, I'm in an apartment, have a huge window, and the screen fits perfectly between the pillars on each side. I surrounded the screen with burgundy velvet left/right and a matching valens on top to cover the screen case and enclose the screen with a theatre feel. I added some "rope lights" on the outside left and right, which give a little light that doesn't hit the screen because the velvet blocks it. The projector is a Benq 5120, which I'm very happy with.


When not in use, the screen goes up and I have a nice bright window, when I want to watch something I just pull the screen down and I'm looking at a nice dark screening area.


If anyone is debating buying this screen, from my standpoint you can't go wrong, period.


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *corba* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> no, i'll build DIY silverscreen if i dont find one in a few weeks, i've heard they are better.



Is there truth to this statement? Any one here seen both? i'm all ears...


----------



## Dex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is there truth to this statement? Any one here seen both? i'm all ears...



I haven't done a DIY silverscreen. Consider, I paint regularly, have an airbrush, and read all kinds of posts about making your own DIY silverscreen. That said, I just didn't think that making my own, painting it with multiple layers of various materials and hoping to get a nice end product was worth the trouble when you consider the prices of some screens available in stores.


One thing for sure, no finish I could have done myself would have been as good as the Gray Wolf screen, and besides, who needs to go to all the trouble when you can buy a 16:9 screen for $200?


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> One thing for sure, no finish I could have done myself would have been as good as the Gray Wolf screen, and besides, who needs to go to all the trouble when you can buy a 16:9 screen for $200?



A great looking 16:9 screen for $200











Been watching HD all day yesterday and the colors literally pop and the image is so 3D...truly worth the $200


----------



## tubaprde

Anyone know if you optoma will come out with a non-retro reflective greywolf? Anyone know of a screen that is comparable to the greywolf that is non-retroreflective?


----------



## harmil2

I am staying with a ceiling mount and also want get a screen that is non-retroreflective. Frustrating to see all the kudos for the greywolf, but not for ceiling mounts. Appreciate any suggestions even close to the 106" greywolf price. I will have good light control, dark walls/floor, lighter ceiling, and running my Z4. I am pleased with my diy b/o cloth screen, but am moving and want a pulldown to cover a window.


----------



## tubaprde

How about those elite screens? They're cheap. Anyone compare it to a greywolf?


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did, the HCMW was actually my first screen. It was a 4:3 that I used with my X1. Loved the screen with the X1 & 4805 but when I upgraded to the DT-300 the screen /PJ combo produced a 'moire' pattern that was very visible during white scenes. I attempted everything to get rid of it but was unsuccessful. Da-Lite tech support swore up and down that what I was seeing couldn't be possible. I snapped some photos of the anomaly and e-mailed them to Da-Lite. They hemmed and hawed and scratched their collective heads but couldn't come up with a solution. Neither the High Power, the Gray Wolf or the Fotodiox have this issue. It's a strange HCMW/DT-300 issue. Great screen otherwise.



Hi, did the Fotodiox have good black levels? I looked this screen up and it looks like it is a matte, the GW is a grey screen--can u give me a comparison? thanks!


----------



## lax01

has anybody had any problems with wrinkles and stretch lines in the screen? Especially along the bottom? You can't really see it when an image is being projected but with the lights on, you can see it....can you use a hair-dryer to fix this like with the HCCVs?


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lax01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> has anybody had any problems with wrinkles and stretch lines in the screen? Especially along the bottom? You can't really see it when an image is being projected but with the lights on, you can see it....can you use a hair-dryer to fix this like with the HCCVs?




Yes, I would like to know the same thing...


How do you like your 1x2 hdmi splitter--is it 1 hdmi to 2 dvi?


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I would like to know the same thing...
> 
> 
> How do you like your 1x2 hdmi splitter--is it 1 hdmi to 2 dvi?




no, its an HDMI switcher....2 to 1....so I can run my DVD player and HDTV receiver thru one input on my projector...its working out great...no quality loss


----------



## soupbone

Does this 92 or 106" screen work well for a back wall mounted AE900? Not quite ceiling mounted so will retro reflective work ok? Does this company send out samples?


Details:


Seating is 12 feet back from wall.


AE900 on Peerless 13" TV wall mount 6' 5" up from floor. 12 Foot throw.


Walls / ceiling all white and light brown carpet.


Large White Vertical blinds.


----------



## i8piglet

Ok, I have read through the first 25 or so pages of this thread, and I have gone from totally psyched to totally paranoid.

*My predicament*: I have an x1, ceiling mounted, in a semi finished basement, with a DIY foam board/ blackout cloth screen that is about 60" wide. I want to move to something larger and I can accommodate something about 80" wide. I was all set to order a da-lite matte white model B, when I stumbled across this thread. I want to spend as little as possible, as this is only a temporary setup.


My ceiling is pretty low, 7-7.5' ish, the projector is mounted about 4-6" down, so it is pretty low. Because of the low ceiling, the screen will necessarily be fairly low as well - I would estimate that sitting down, eye level will be somewhere around the bottom third of the screen. The couch is pretty much centered with the screen about 13' back from the screen, and directly under the projector. The room is less than 10' wide so viewing from side angles won't be much of an issue, although some folks do like to sit on the floor.

*Questions 1*: Considering that this is a ceiling mounted setup, how far outside of the viewing cone will I be, and how much pq can I expect to loose?

*Questions 2*: Has the shipping situation with the greywolfs gotten any better? Can anyone recommend a good retailer? (No BB in my area has any instock)

-Does anyone know of any retailer that has a decent enough return policy that will allow me to exchange it for a matte white screen if need be?

-I'm leaning towards PCnations because of that three day shipping.

*Question 3*: How tall (?) is the case? I know that the screen is 80x45 and the boarder is 2 around, and the top has stops at 0, 2, 4 etc, but how much do I have to account for the height of the case? I need to know how much total wall space I need to accommodate for (I may have to play with the speaker stands).


----------



## leo122

I bought a GrayWolf and was very disappointed.


This screen totally destroyed the beautiful picture of my projector. It presents the image in a rough way as opposite of smooth. It makes the pictures look like plastic/glass.


The viewing cone is ok for me. This screen also rejects the lamp light a little bit better than the bare white wall.


There are multiple dents on the case. Retracting the screen is quite a challenge. You have to raise it very fast.


I am glad I bought it from a local store and paid MSRP for it so I could return it without problem.


----------



## talon_3

I agree with leo122, The GW did some things right but the rough picture made things blurry and like it was under glass. It did improve blacks and the colors were good but I couldn't live with the swirls of texture in the light scenes and HDTV looked blurry always.


----------



## cartbaby

I got the 106 GW yesterday at a local store. Black looks deeper now. But I was wondering for people who've had the GW for awhile now, does the faint lighter top 1/3 of the screen go away. Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cartbaby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got the 106 GW yesterday at a local store. Black looks deeper now. But I was wondering for people who've had the GW for awhile now, does the faint lighter top 1/3 of the screen go away. Sorry if this has been mentioned in the thread.



Cartbaby, the line across the top of my screen is no longer visible. I've watched several movies this weekend and specifically looked for the line and I can no longer see it.


I've had my screen for 5 months, I first noticed that the line appeared to be fading a month or so ago and now it is gone.


Randy


----------



## cartbaby

Thanks for the reply. Good to know it can fade eventually. I've had it over a day now and the band is faded abit and the picture is more watchable now. I hope it gets better because this screen is good for my living room. It's my first real screen.


----------



## Bolero




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *i8piglet[b* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My predicament[/b]: I have an x1, ceiling mounted, in a semi finished basement, with a DIY foam board/ blackout cloth screen that is about 60" wide. I want to move to something larger and I can accommodate something about 80" wide. I was all set to order a da-lite matte white model B, when I stumbled across this thread. I want to spend as little as possible, as this is only a temporary setup.
> 
> 
> My ceiling is pretty low, 7-7.5' ish, the projector is mounted about 4-6" down, so it is pretty low. Because of the low ceiling, the screen will necessarily be fairly low as well - I would estimate that sitting down, eye level will be somewhere around the bottom third of the screen. The couch is pretty much centered with the screen about 13' back from the screen, and directly under the projector. The room is less than 10' wide so viewing from side angles won't be much of an issue, although some folks do like to sit on the floor.
> 
> *Questions 1*: Considering that this is a ceiling mounted setup, how far outside of the viewing cone will I be, and how much pq can I expect to loose?
> 
> *Questions 2*: Has the shipping situation with the greywolfs gotten any better? Can anyone recommend a good retailer? (No BB in my area has any instock)
> 
> -Does anyone know of any retailer that has a decent enough return policy that will allow me to exchange it for a matte white screen if need be?
> 
> -I'm leaning towards PCnations because of that three day shipping.
> 
> *Question 3*: How tall (?) is the case? I know that the screen is 80x45 and the boarder is 2 around, and the top has stops at 0, 2, 4 etc, but how much do I have to account for the height of the case? I need to know how much total wall space I need to accommodate for (I may have to play with the speaker stands).



I was in a very similar situation. I have an X1 that is wall mounted immediately above my viewing position (the ceiling is a vaulted, angled ceiling) which is about 12.5 feet back from the screen position (which is on the opoosing wall). The project is a good 4 feet above the viewing position. From there I would say that I am loosing about 10% of the brightness than when I am standing at the viewing position. Otherwise the picture is really good. It shrugs off ambient light pretty well and the color is really good.


Prior to this, I was using a DIY screen of blackout cloth around a homemade frame with MMud on the blackout cloth (applied with a roller). It wasn't the best screen, but I think a lot of the quality decrease in that wasn't from the MMud but from my weak assembling skills. However, I do like my new GrayWolf. I just got it last night from Fedex. The package was dirty but not busted up. My vendor was buy.com.


----------



## mboy

I received my 92" greywolf from buy.com last night (under $155 shipped).

Box was in decent shap.

After brief inspection, the case appears to be fine. Did not pull down screen yet as I am trying to figure out how the hell I am going to mount it on my 7.5' wide wall unit to pull down in front of my TV.


Will update in week or 2 whenever I figure it out.


----------



## mboy

Ok, well, got it mounted, at least temporarily until my buddy from work fabs me some custom brackets.


The plastic sheet did fall off when I pulled the screen down. No noticeable banding what-so -ever.

Case was mint.

Screen was perfect as a whole.


Def noticed it a bit brighter standing up, but drop off was not that big of a deal, my 4805 ceiling mounted is plenty bright.

Colors did pop for sure, especially blue (have not calibrated with Avia yet).

Blacks were good too. Textures was not too bad as some others have stated.

The Da-lite Video Spectra material I was using before was far worse in texture, blacklevel,colors. Just about every aspect was worse then the Greywolf.

I was going to order a high Contarst Mat white to checdk out, but for $112, I am very satisified for now with my Greywolf.

When I buy a house, have a dedicated room painted black, I will make or purchase a better screen. For now, I am happy with it for sure.


----------



## i8piglet

Well, I decided against the Graywolf, because of the ceiling mount and the fact that I have nearly total light control.


Because of the recomendations in this thread I ordered my screen from Provantage.com. While the shipping was awfully high, their price was so low that it still was the cheapest price I could find. I placed my order on Monday (a national holiday) the screen shipped on tuesday, and it was delivered yesterday (thursday).


Thankfully, I cannot comment on their customer support.


----------



## mboy

What screen did you order, then?


I was far more impressed with the Greywolf last night, then I ever was with my Da-lite Video Spectra.


With 1-2 40 watt bulbs in a rear room lamp, the image was easily watchable.

Colors were great for most part with no calibration (whites a little dingy,b ut not terrible and not worse then the Video Spectra), blacks were faaaaar better and their was only a SLIGHT loss of brightness when seated vs. standing.


----------



## i8piglet

I went with the matte white Da-Lite and it is more than sufficent for my needs. I got the screen up last night and temporarily rigged up the PJ, and its great. This setup just needs to get me through graduation in May, and then once I start into my career, and start making money we'll look into buying a home in a better area, then I can go nuts







.


Its probably good that I didn't go with the Graywolf, because of the size of the screen and the location of stairs in in the front left corner of the room the left edge of the screen had to stay about where it was with the small screen. This moved the PJ and the center of the image over a good 2-3 feet, which would have put me even further outside of the viewing cone.


----------



## tubaprde

Does anyone know what tool I should use to cut a long and thin passthrough hole in the ceiling for my greywolf screen? Is there a saw out that works best for this type of job? The hole will be about 1 inch wide and 98 inches long (just enough room for the gw to be pulled down into the room, from the attick).


thanks!


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what tool I should use to cut a long and thin passthrough hole in the ceiling for my greywolf screen? Is there a saw out that works best for this type of job? The hole will be about 1 inch wide and 98 inches long (just enough room for the gw to be pulled down into the room, from the attick).
> 
> 
> thanks!



do you have ceiling tiles? we just used a drill with a large bit and it worked fine...they have circular drill bits which create perfect holes though


----------



## jkresh

just set up my grey wolf (with an sp 5000), makes a big difference over a bair wall. Away for a week so I cant try it out too much but so far I am impressed.


----------



## thrash64

can any one post a pic of the screen surface w/o any thing projected onto it?


----------



## Hinton777

Hello - I just purchased an infocus sp5000, recently brought it over to a friends house who has the graywolf with an infocus 4805. We hooked HD up to the 5000 and I was blown away, I love the screen, only problem is that it is too big. I only want around 76". I am using it in my living room to watch TV and DVDs also, there is some ambient light but there was in his basement also and I was satisfied with the picture. I saw the Dalite Hi Power that is 77" but it costs 2x as much. I liked the blacks on the graywolf and the 1.8 gain. How do you think the Dalite HCMW would compare to the graywolf? Room is lighter colored, a couple of windows that are away from the sun all day and are also covered, ceiling mounted. thanks for your help.


Harley


----------



## mboy

For the price you can get the Greywolf for


----------



## Hinton777

That's what I was thinking, would there be any issues with the edges if I project a 76" on a 92" screen? The only thing I was concerned about was having to turn my head back and forth when watching sports or something of that nature. I am also sitting about 12' back, I want the 92" but the wife is not so sure. I may borrow my friends and see what I think. Thanks for the help


----------



## mboy

You will have ZERO trouble with 92" from 12' back, not 1 bit of trouble.

PERFECT size (and is well within the recommended for my 4805).


Why waste time with 76" @ that distance?


----------



## Hinton777

OK, you've convinced me, the place that has it for $129 (can't post URLs yet) is b/o right now but as soon as they get it back in stock I will get it, thanks for your help. I appreciate it.


----------



## mikes1965

Hello My name is Mike and Im new to this form I have a quick ?

Im getting a new SHARP XR-10X 1024x768 DLP Projector 2000 ANSI Lumens Standard Mode; 1750 ANSI Lumens Low Power Mode 2000:1


I would like to know which one of this 2 are the best screens for me

#1 Da-Lite 93166 Model-B Pull Down Manual Screen 106" HDTV Fomat (16:9 Aspect) High-Contrast Matte White

#2 Panoview 106" Cinema HDTV Screen


I just dont know that much about this and could use some help please

Thank you

Mike


----------



## SKoprowski

So is the case color white or black? The pics I see indicate they are black. My current 92 High Power has a black case and I thought of doing a quick switch with a Graywolf before the Mrs finds out







I live in North Canton where Proadvantage is


----------



## mikes1965

black


----------



## lax01

heh mine's white...


----------



## Al O

Hinton777- go to Provantage.com they have the 92" and smaller screens in stock.


----------



## mboy

Greywolf case is white, no doubt!


----------



## mikes1965

I dont want a smaller screen I just want to know which of the 2 are best


----------



## RoodyPooUS

Finally Provantage has the 106" one IN STOCK (21 left so hurry), I ordered it weeks ago and they finally shipped it today! Great price, and hopefully great service/product.


I almost ordered from B&H for $40 more shipped because they just got in stock too, looks like Optoma shipped out a large batch of them lately to their dealers.


----------



## Hinton777

Al O - Shipping at provantage is 39.50 for NY, so it is $141.33, I got it from pagecomputers for $134 shipped, I work for a consumer electronics distributor and could have gotten it for $110 but we aren't going to see any for 2 weeks and I didn't want to wait. Also, the smallest they make the graywolf currently is 92" and that is the screen I want.


mikes1965 - I think Al O was saying they had smaller screens to me., also I may not be able to answer which screen is best but whoever can will prob. need to know what enviroment it is going into, windows? controlled lighting? etc.


----------



## mike.armf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RoodyPooUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Finally Provantage has the 106" one IN STOCK (21 left so hurry), I ordered it weeks ago and they finally shipped it today! Great price, and hopefully great service/product.
> 
> 
> I almost ordered from B&H for $40 more shipped because they just got in stock too, looks like Optoma shipped out a large batch of them lately to their dealers.




Thanks for the heads up! I've been waiting for a reasonably priced option on this screen...I ordered mine a couple of hours ago and there were 16 left when I got done...Now, I am hoping it arrives in good shape and it's an improvement over my Draper silver screen...


----------



## Hinton777

Just a heads up, pagecomputers.com has the 106" screen for $146 shipped, it is on b/o right now but they should have it soon. They also pay for shipping on the way back to them if your item is defective.


----------



## RoodyPooUS

Just a heads up for you guys waiting to pull the trigger, I was just checking my order status at provantage and saw they only have 7 of the 106" Graywolf left in stock, it will probably sell out today.


----------



## apurav

I Just Bought Panoview 106" 1.8 Gain Greywolf From Provantage for $165 Including Shipping. I Think That Was The Lowest I Could Find On Internet


----------



## King88mob

Just got my Greywolf from Nova Visual Solutions (an Ottawa based Optoma distributor). They were significantly more expensive then getting it shipped, but they guarrantied that it would show up undamaged, and they are local so exchange is a breeze.


Futureshop and Best Buy no longer carry this screen, so the options are limited for Canadians. The best way to find a local reseller really is to call Optoma (canadian or US office) and see who they recommend.


I'll be giving this screen a shot this weekend. My setup is an H27 13' away from the screen, mounted 6 1/2 feet from the ground, so we'll see how it works out.


Viewing angle is straight on, but sitting so i may end up losing some brightness. I'll post a report when i get it up and running.


If i do like it, however, i'll be getting an aluminum frame made, and i'll be taking the material off the roller and perma-fixing it.


----------



## guitarman

So have all you Graywolf owners been enjoying the high contrast you're getting for these daytime Football playoff games? This morning with the sun out I had to say my my look at how contrasty the image looks, during the day with my boring white walls. This thing was very watchable today. Great games!


----------



## apurav

I have a combo of H31 and 106" Greywolf. i plan to ceiling mount H31 @ 15 ft from wall mounted screen and my seating will be @ 17 ft from screen. The PJ will be mounted 4" from ceiling and will have to to use keystone for correction as i do not want to use lens shift. Will there be any gain, color or contrast issues with this setup???


----------



## edgebsl

I currently have a DIY screen 82" diagonal. I want to go bigger. My seating distances are between 11 and 15 feet. Am I nuts for wanting the 106"?


I projected different size images on my wall tonight and the 92 just doesnt quite give me that "theater" feel. If only they had a 98 or 100 inch.


What do you guys think? Am I nuts?


My pj is a Hitachi tx100


----------



## BlackHawk77

I finnaly got my 106 set up and I would definitely not recommend this to anyone ceiling mounted. I know it is not meant for it but for the cost I had to try it. It doesnt look terrible but it is definitely a little dull.


----------



## guitarman

It all boils down to how bright the projector is. The H31 is around 385 lumens in econo which puts 1.0 gain at about 10ftl off the screen. Ideal number is 12ftl so use bright mode this will take you up to 14.5ftl. I wouldn't worry about saving pennies by using econo, the H31 bulbs msrp is only $299. It takes over a year to put over 1,000hrs on a bulb even if you're an aggressive viewer, like me.










106" is a decent size, some think it's small.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edgebsl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently have a DIY screen 82" diagonal. I want to go bigger. My seating distances are between 11 and 15 feet. Am I nuts for wanting the 106"?
> 
> 
> I projected different size images on my wall tonight and the 92 just doesnt quite give me that "theater" feel. If only they had a 98 or 100 inch.
> 
> 
> What do you guys think? Am I nuts?
> 
> 
> My pj is a Hitachi tx100



No, you're not nuts. My seating is 11 feet from my 106" Graywolf and I wish I could bigger.


As long as you enjoy it, it doesn't really matter what anyone else's idea is of the perfect seating position.


Randy


----------



## edgebsl

lol!


I guess so. I have basically 4 available seats, 10ft,11ft,13ft and 15ft from the screen. I do think at 10ft its a little big.Almost 1:1. Too bad there's no in between. I just think the 92 will be a little dissapointing. I like the big theaters with the wide screens and stadium seating and I'd like that feel at home.Some people dont like that though. My fiance is always saying "Dont pick a seat too close"


I did think that if I moved the 92 1 foot away from the wall that would theoritically be like going up a size. It would make the 11ft seat a 10 ft which is close to the ideal for a 6 and a half foot wide screen..


I'll have to sleep on it.


----------



## dcouzin

The gain vs. angle data from darinp2.


0 ----- 3.1

5 ----- 2.5

10 --- 2.05

15 --- 1.4

20 --- .95

25 --- .8

30 --- just above .7

35 --- just below .7

40 --- .65

45 --- just above .6

50 --- .6

55 --- .58

60 --- .57


If you graph this data it doesn't have the Gaussian look which beaded screens must have. In particular the derivative at 0 must be 0. But the data is useful for the middle angles. Thanks.


----------



## edgebsl

My setup is ceiling mounted but my room is only about 13 ft wide.


Are there any gray pull downs that anyone would recommend? I'd like to at least achieve 1.0 gain with some gray to increase blacks.


Would I get that from the graywolf?

The Hitachi is a light cannon. It looks pretty watchable on my dark gray wall in whisper mode with some light on.


----------



## mboy

I still use an ND2 filter on my almost ceiling mounted (lens is about 86" from floor-screen top about 74") with my 4805 and while brighter when standing, it is actually too bright. Just about perfect when seated.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edgebsl* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My setup is ceiling mounted but my room is only about 13 ft wide.
> 
> 
> Are there any gray pull downs that anyone would recommend? I'd like to at least achieve 1.0 gain with some gray to increase blacks.
> 
> 
> Would I get that from the graywolf?
> 
> The Hitachi is a light cannon. It looks pretty watchable on my dark gray wall in whisper mode with some light on.



I had the Gray Wolf and it simply didn't cut it for me and my low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. Since then I have been on the hunt for the perfect match and I think I may found it. I have a High Power and I really like it but it's currently in a box in the garage waiting for my 'next' projector.


In the meantime I tried the Fotodiox I got from eBay. It is supposedly a high contrast screen with 1.3 gain - not. It's OK, kinda cheaply built and not exactly 92" (88" diameter







which must be a Chinese thing since that's where it's built) but the picture was pretty good. It wasn't gray though.


I stumbled across a really good deal from Infocus and ended up with their gray high contrast 92" screen and it is really nice. Here's a Link 

to the 106" version. This screen is GRAY, not Gray Wolf gray but slightly lighter and much smoother. It claims to be 1.1 gain with a very wide viewing angle and I believe it. There is absolutely no drop off in picture brightness or quality from any angle, even ultra severe ones like lying on the floor underneath it!


The build quality is decent, not great by any stretch but not "Elite" quality either. The screen has a 2" border on 3 sides and a 6" border on top. I think I read somewhere that the screen is made by Draper for Infocus. Since I've never had a Draper screen before I can't verify that. It's certainly not as good a screen, quality wise, as the Da-Lite High Power but it is a much better match for my Sharp PJ than any of the other screens were. The price was really good too, it's a keeper - for the moment!


----------



## cfjh

I think I got the last Graywolf from Provantage. I'd post some reactions, but if I leave the screen down tonight for much longer, I'm going to pass out. It is really fragrant! But so far, it is great. It arrived in perfect shape, and the screen itself is flawless.


I'll let it air out tomorrow.


Jeremy


----------



## leo122




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had the Gray Wolf and it simply didn't cut it for me and my low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. Since then I have been on the hunt for the perfect match and I think I may found it. I have a High Power and I really like it but it's currently in a box in the garage waiting for my 'next' projector.
> 
> 
> In the meantime I tried the Fotodiox I got from eBay. It is supposedly a high contrast screen with 1.3 gain - not. It's OK, kinda cheaply built and not exactly 92" (88" diameter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> which must be a Chinese thing since that's where it's built) but the picture was pretty good. It wasn't gray though.
> 
> 
> I stumbled across a really good deal from Infocus and ended up with their gray high contrast 92" screen and it is really nice. Here's a to the 106" version. This screen is GRAY, not Gray Wolf gray but slightly lighter and much smoother. It claims to be 1.1 gain with a very wide viewing angle and I believe it. There is absolutely no drop off in picture brightness or quality from any angle, even ultra severe ones like lying on the floor underneath it!
> 
> 
> The build quality is decent, not great by any stretch but not "Elite" quality either. The screen has a 2" border on 3 sides and a 6" border on top. I think I read somewhere that the screen is made by Draper for Infocus. Since I've never had a Draper screen before I can't verify that. It's certainly not as good a screen, quality wise, as the Da-Lite High Power but it is a much better match for my Sharp PJ than any of the other screens were. The price was really good too, it's a keeper - for the moment!



Itsdon,


Where did you get your HP? I have tried GW and didn't like it. After read Tryg's review I decided to give HP a try.


Thanks


----------



## apurav

thanks Tom, I will be setting up my PJ and screen next week when I move to a new apartment, will post some pics then. The gain vs angle chart might be a big help in setting up my PJ distance for right angle. Also Tom I agree with you about the britemode in H31. Usually i run it with britemode off as i feel it is a bit brighter with on setting, all this on a wall, so i guess on a 1.8 gain screen it should be fine.


Amol


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leo122* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Itsdon,
> 
> 
> Where did you get your HP? I have tried GW and didn't like it. After read Tryg's review I decided to give HP a try.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I got it from Jason here at AVS. Great service and an even better price!


----------



## edgebsl

I have been looking at some graywolf pics in the gallery and it sems like all of them have waves. Waves really do bother me so I want a screen that isnt too prone to show waves.I hear the high power is great for that but I like my blacks and the hitachi is a small sun. I watched a movie in whisper mode the other night with all lights off and I actually got a little fatigued.I have Hurley superglo fabric and it is extremely bright.Its angular reflective. I have a small silverstar sample and I tell you they look so close side by side its not funny.


But I must say that now that I have a brighter pj I dont need all that gain..dont want a dull image but I'm less concerned about watching the screen in daytime now.I want nice blacks and a big "film" like image that makes me feel like im in a theater, not watching a giant plasma.


But if I cant find a gray screen I like in a pull down...I may end up building a new frame and ordering more material from hurley.A pull down would be so much more practical but the waves are a real bummer.


----------



## lax01

all pull-down, non-tensioned screens are oging to have waves....just a fact of life


we've tried tensioning it more by adding weight to the bottom, but it really doesn't seem to help...probably be best to mount it to a frame and then tension...


but honestly, you can't see the waves when you're looking straight at it....the screen looks flat..


----------



## minnegopher

I've been following this thread for some time now. I have owned a 106" Greywolf since October, paired with a Panny AE900. I really like this combo! Maximum bang for the buck.


I'm considering the conversion to a fixed screen as I hate looking at the pull-down paraphenalia. I have been searching for some concrete evidence of someone who has done this, but I have come up empty.


Could anyone who has converted their Greywolf screen, from manual pull-down to the fixed type, please provide some feedback? I'm hoping to learn how the process went, specifically:


a) what type of frame? wood, aluminum, etc.?

b) did you cut the screen off the roll?

b) how did you fasten the screen material to the frame? velcro, staples?

c) did the material stretch sufficiently? did the screen remain intact w/o microtearing the (painted?) finish?

d) how does it look now that it's completed? would you do it again?


I don't want to trash my screen prior to learning from someone who as already performed the surgery. Thanks in advance for your comments.


-minnegopher


----------



## edgebsl

My fixed screen is supported material which is very hard to stretch.


I recommend a stretchy fabric with no backing for a fixed screen.


----------



## Russ D




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cfjh* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I got the last Graywolf from Provantage. I'd post some reactions, but if I leave the screen down tonight for much longer, I'm going to pass out. It is really fragrant! But so far, it is great. It arrived in perfect shape, and the screen itself is flawless.
> 
> 
> I'll let it air out tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Jeremy




Not too sure about that... I just checked and the web page says they have 241 left. I ordered one on Monday and they had about 260. FedX says it should be here tomorrow







.


Just wondering... has anyone tracked prices at Provantage? I was going to order one last week and decided to wait out the weekend to see if prices would drop. They were about $35 more than a member here at AVS had told me he paid. They also only had about 15 left on Friday. Well on Monday they had 260 and the price dropped $25. Do they raise prices when their stock gets low?


RD


----------



## mike.armf

I received my Graywolf screen yesterday from Provantage - took a week from order to delivery... I believe we aren't supposed to quote street prices, so I'll just say it was significantly under the MSRP. PM me for more details if you like.


Thanks to many of the guys on this thread, I was ready for the odor - so I hung it last night - screen down position - in the garage. It's already started to lose that strong chemical odor just 12 hours or so later.


I hope to do an a/b test this weekend with my current screen - a 106" Draper silver...


mike


----------



## mboy

I have had my 92" for a few weeks now. Easily logged in 50+ hours on it.


No waves and the blacks are OUTSTANDING.

Ceiling mounted 4805 AND have the ND2 filter on.


Using a Bravo D1 DVD 1:1 Pixel mapped @ 854x480 @ 47.xx hz, SW III and Fifth Element SB space sceens look unreal.

I mean even to the point where you can tell the sapceships are not real (5th element especially).


----------



## King88mob

promised a follow up to my screen situation, and here it is:


the screen is the 92" Greywolf. The projector, and H27, is approx 12 feet from the screen, about 6 1/2 feet from the ground. The seating position eye level is about 4 feet from the ground.


Right now, I'm really getting a kick out of the screen when i have all the lights off. It lets me dissable the bright mode (no fan noise) on my projector for those dark, quiet movies i've been watching of late (mullholland dr... what a strange movie).


Do i see a difference when i stand on the couch to get a projector-eye-view of the screen ? Definately. Does it bother me? Not really.


I toned down the contrast on my screen, and worked on the brightness levels using GetGray's calibration disc (see other forum for it) and i'm pretty happy with the results.


One thing i'd like to point out is that i have some indirect light in the room during most casual (tv shows etc.) viewing, where i have 2 60watt spotlights pointing at the back of the room, and for most shows, this causes no problems. For dark shows and movies however, full black out is required.


I can see no waves at all when projecting (in fact, the texture is less distracting overall then my primer painted wall i was using before)



The colours really do stand out a lot more, and by adjusting the contrast and brightness I got a lot of the shadow detail back, but at the cost of a little higher overall brightness.


Do i love this screen? no, am i satisfied considering the amount i spent, definately.


I'll probably play around with some DIY solutions over the summer, but for now, it was more then worth the money i spent.


----------



## guitarman

Here's an old picture someone posted comparing the Graywolf and the Mat White at the same time with ambient light.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/graywolfmatwhite.jpg 


I have the high power up at the same time and get a similar effect. Also I have several projectors and the Graywolf get used exclusively. I just like the dark black border on the top for reflections and the overall depth I get to the images. Even the low light output of the NEC HT1000 gets the benenfits.


Right it hard to see waves with video but mine has physical waves. I was looking at the bar as it sits when retracted and notice it's bent down in the middle from many pull downs. I think if we can rig up a more solid bar or support it will do away with allot of the waves problem. The material is pretty thick and wants to hang flat.


----------



## cfjh

Here's a brief review for those of you (us) new to projectors in general: The Graywolf is great. In my uneducated opinion, a new user of projector will be thrilled with the screen. It is cheap, a good size, and makes the image really punchy. As a matter of fact, I find it to be nearly too much for film; it is so bright and saturated (I have an ae900) that it looks a lot like video. For new users of FPs, this may be a good thing since you may be used to overly bright and overly saturated pictures. I'm really happy, and I think that you could look at a lot of the criticism as splitting hairs.


I defer to those with a more experienced eye, but my setup has a serious wow factor to it, and it is really basic. So if you are new to the scene, purchase without fear.


I'd be interested in making a permanent white screen when we move to a new house, and rolling the graywolf down in front of it depending on the content.


----------



## HT cOz

What is the material like on the back of the screen. Does anyone think it would be possible to glue it to a hard fixed surface?


Thanks,


----------



## eldithomaso

Oh here goes - searched the forum but found some bad advice:


Anyone have a method for CLEANING the Graywolf Screen - say just to get the dust off of it if you leave if open/down all the time?


Feather Duster - seems like a risk with the texture?

Microfiber Duster- seems possible

Vacuum?

Rag with a light spray of Simple Green (TM)?


Other?


Any thoughts are much appreciated...


Signed: Dusty the Grey.


----------



## FremontRich

What's the latest news on when Optoma will be shipping electric Graywolf screens?


Rich


----------



## edgebsl

Guitarman....I went back through the threads today and was suprised to find all your graywolf screenshots and shots with the screen and the h79 are down.


I'd sure like to see some pics










I ordered the 106 today so I have my fingers crossed!


----------



## King88mob

eldithomaso: I'm guessing something like a Swiffer would be your best bet, since it's the static that will dust, not the friction. I don't think i'd use anything like a feather duster.


----------



## TrickMcKaha




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the latest news on when Optoma will be shipping electric Graywolf screens?
> 
> 
> Rich



And larger ones?


----------



## blueshift

I got my 92" Graywolf today to match up with my H31. I'm very impressed with it. Definate improvement in dark scenes....improves the contrast level a noticable amount. Perfect size is perfect for the room I've got it in.


My H31 is table mounted so this screen works quite well for me. Although if I decided to ceiling mount it I might look for another screen because it definately provides the best picture from an angle similar to the source.


My only complaints....as many have mentioned the packaging (the box) does not provide adequate protection...I had a minor dent in my screen casing....nothing to worry about but of course nobody WANTS dents. Other than that....getting the screen to roll back up can be tricky....not rocket science, but usually takes several tries. An electric model would be sweet if the price still remained reasonible.


I'm extremely happy with my purchase...what a bargin!


----------



## Russ D

Kinda funny... I came here to post my first impressions and it's pretty much the same as this last post behind me. I've had my 92" for 5 days and...


1. How many Graywolf owners have a little trouble getting it to roll back up?

Mine really doesn't like to go up and makes some pretty hard clicking noises on the first click up. & most times on it's way up it stops and I have to start again... I guess you get what you pay for but I'm thinking mine might be a little faulty?


2. My screen showed up... box was in good shape... no dents on the casing... but on the top Black border there's a spot (the shape of California) 2" long that is a Dull flat black w/ a couple white specks on it. Very noticable in a lighted room. Not too big of a deal but kinda lame.


3. My PJ is Ceiling mounted... I definitly don't get the extra vibrant colors of the Graywolf. When standing up, as you sit down, it's like a dark film rolls on the screen... BUT... it still does look good w/ my 4805. It's too bad they don't have this screen in a model designed for those w/ a ceiling mount. (Don't the majority of PJers Ceiling Mount?) Basically it is marginally better than Blackout cloth Ceiling mounted and Much better than BOC when Table mounted.


I must say for the price I paid I can't complain and I do like the GW screen... but I may end up looking for another option

RD


----------



## Dex

Regarding roll-up of the screen, I'm having zero problems now. Just give it a sharp yank and then help it go up really fast and it'll keep going. Seems much better now than when I got it.


Overall, I don't have my projector at the optimal height (it's about 4 feet higher than my viewing area), and I can see a difference if I stand closer to the projector's level, but I'm still extremely pleased with this screen!!!


----------



## Rod S

Mine doesn't like to go up either. That's my only real complaint though. It does a great job. I was initially worried about the viewing cone being too small but turns out that isn't an issue with this screen at all.


----------



## Z3r0




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Rod S* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mine doesn't like to go up either. That's my only real complaint though.



I had difficulty getting it up the first couple of time too. To get it up in one shot pull down a few inches and then push upwards and it should go right up. If doesn't work like the spring loaded window blinds where you jerk down then it goes up.


----------



## Dosdemoaner

OK, so I've tried to order a graywolf 106 but have been told that they are out of stock and it doesn't seem clear if ther intent to do anything about this.


So what do you all suggest as a good screen for me to use in the the $250 US ($300 Cdn) price range ?

any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Z3r0* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had difficulty getting it up the first couple of time too. To get it up in one shot pull down a few inches and then push upwards and it should go right up. If doesn't work like the spring loaded window blinds where you jerk down then it goes up.



Is it just me or are you talking dirty?


----------



## Dex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dosdemoaner* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK, so I've tried to order a graywolf 106 but have been told that they are out of stock and it doesn't seem clear if ther intent to do anything about this.
> 
> 
> So what do you all suggest as a good screen for me to use in the the $250 US ($300 Cdn) price range ?
> 
> any help would be appreciated.



try tigerdirect.ca or tigerdirect.com

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...ojector+screen


----------



## qposner

I have been going through this thread, but it is quite lengthy and I did not find an answer. I have a 92 in Greywolf on order to pair with a 4805. The lens will be approx 14.5 ft from the screen. Ideally, how should the lens be positioned relative to the center of the screen? How should the center of the screen be relative to my sitting eye level? I want to make sure I do not mount the 4805 too low or high on my wall. Is there a ratio to use with this screen so I get the full impact at my sitting eye level?


Thanks!

Quinn


----------



## Rod S

For my setup I found that having the bottom edge of the screen at eye level and the PJ sitting on a 22" high table top seemed to work really well. If you stand up you see the image darken slightly. If you sit on the floor so your eyes are at PJ level it's almost the same as being seated in the chair. This works great for me and you may have to play with it a bit to find your sweet spot. H31/graywolf 12-18 feet back.


----------



## qposner

Thanks. I would like to wall mount it, so that would change things. My issue is my seating is against the back wall about 14.5-15 feet as well so that would put the pj in my lap. I also don't want to keep putting holes in my wall by moving the shelf up and down, looking for the sweet spot. Perhaps I can put it on a stand and use books, etc to raise and lower until I find a good spot, then mount it.


----------



## Dosdemoaner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dosdemoaner

OK, so I've tried to order a graywolf 106 but have been told that they are out of stock and it doesn't seem clear if ther intent to do anything about this.


So what do you all suggest as a good screen for me to use in the the $250 US ($300 Cdn) price range ?

any help would be appreciated.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

try tigerdirect.ca or tigerdirect.com

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...rojector+screen 


BUY.com doesn't want to ship to Canada, and TigerDirect.ca want $150 + to deliver it!!!



so my next question is.


The Draper Luma 106 or the Da-Light Model B which to choose?


any preferences out there?


----------



## qposner

I just ordered a 92in the other day and shipping actually appeared to be their cost and not a profit maker.

http://www.provantage.com/optoma-ds-9106pm~7OPTO045.htm


----------



## edgebsl

I just got my 106 from pro vantage. I love it!

I'm ceilint mounted about 7 ft up and my seats vary from 10 ft to 15 ft.It's big!


Standing under the pj you get a good gain smack....but its a little too much.Like I said before the Hitachi tx100 is a small sun.When I sit down its perfect...the side seats drop off a little but it still looks great. The blacks are awesome.I have the iris wide open and still have great black level. It even looks good when I lay on the floor.The dropoff is more subtle than the hp.


On a dimmer pj the gain off axis may not be enough for you.But if you have a hot pj ,I actually doubt it dips much below the .8 of most gray screens on the extreme sides. Having the gray is a big plus and it definitely doesnt take a hit when you turn the lights on as much.


I thought i had no wrinkles until I turned the pj off and flipped on the lights.I looked from the side and there is a few waves.Funny thing is ...they dissapear when you project an image on it! Its so weird.


I'm happy!


----------



## CraigW

On my 92", the waves disappear projecting but become visible during horizontal panning.


----------



## lax01

So we tried to remove the wrinkles by placing a 3/8 inch threaded metal bar at the bottom of the screen...I'm pretty sure its stainless steel. It really had no affect on it and probably made some of the lines more distinct. To really tension it, I think you have to unroll it and mount it...but I really didn't see any of the lines pre-bar so I think I'm just going to take the metal bar off...


----------



## Nedtsc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *edgebs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It even looks good when I lay on the floor.The dropoff is more subtle than the hp.
> 
> 
> I'm happy!



Compared to HP in your sitting position, which is brighter? Thanks.


----------



## RoodyPooUS

I have been using this screen (106) for two weeks now. For the price, the performance is great. There is some loss of brightness when you are not sitting in the optimal position (a few inches below the projector which is shelf mounted and in the center) but it is still tolerable. Also, it deals with ambient light much better than my old black out cloth.


----------



## lvfoster

We had the waves issue too! Having a fixed screen was not an issue in our theater so to resolve, we resorted to taking the bottom bar off and using black thumb tacks (yes pressed into the drywall!) on the black border to remove the waves!


----------



## GreenMonkey

Still watching eagerly for a 4:3 greywolf, or a big enough 16:9 greywolf to get my 80"x60" 4:3 image onto it.


----------



## RoodyPooUS

Upon closer inspection, it seems that the height of the screen is about 1/2" too large. Is this typical of other screens that the aspect will not be perfectly accurate? It is a small issue and I can deal with it but if it not the norm, I may want to go to Optoma headquarters and exchange it.


----------



## edgebsl

Mine was the same way. I think the measurements are off a pinch.


----------



## gameboy

For those who are looking, Graywolf is now available via Costco.com. Lower price than any other retailer.


----------



## turnshifthit

better deal at buy.com with free shipping


----------



## derek murray

Can I safely remove the end caps / mounting brackets with out damaging (or releasing) the internal mechanism?


Why I ask is that I would like to switch the mounting brackets from one end to the other. This way I can mount the screen on the backside of a bulkhead... or in other words, to have the screen face the "other way" when wall mounted.


----------



## nevets72

Hey all,


I always have to be different, so I just received a 92" Greywolf today, and I'm not even sure when I'm going buy a projector (been looking since October, think I may finally may just do it with the new rebates on the Panny AE900).







 I do know that there was no point in waiting for a new batch of these screens as mine is dated May05







, and it arrived in great shape, I was worried as others when outer box was busted up, but projector had not a scratch or dent to be found. I unrolled the first foot or so while just holding it, and it does have the overspray that some have commented on, but have not unrolled it the whole way to see what is going on at the top, hope nothing. I do have to say at the price and speed (just ordered it on Saturday, didn't process until monday) you can get these from the dealer in post #1213, I can't see a reason not to go for it.


One last thing that really made me happy with the vendor is that I have had troubles with FedEX in the past and there signature requirement (home is over an hour away from dispatch, and I work an hour away in the other direction) but when I made a comment asking for "no signature requirement" it went right on the package above my name, and was dropped off with out issue. Nice of FedEX to catch up to what UPS and the USPS have been doing with out being told for years.


Hope to start enjoying this screen sometime in the next few months.


John


----------



## Rod S




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RoodyPooUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Upon closer inspection, it seems that the height of the screen is about 1/2" too large. Is this typical of other screens that the aspect will not be perfectly accurate? It is a small issue and I can deal with it but if it not the norm, I may want to go to Optoma headquarters and exchange it.




I measured mine and it a 1/4" from left to right. It's starts out correct and then gets slightly bigger. I don't notice it while viewing only when all the lights are on because the screen doesn't line up with the bookshelf behind it.


----------



## millerwill

I haven't read all the thread, but a quick question: is the graywolf available yet in a fixed-frame version? Tx.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the thread, but a quick question: is the graywolf available yet in a fixed-frame version? Tx.




No


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I haven't read all the thread, but a quick question: is the graywolf available yet in a fixed-frame version? Tx.



Got a razor blade? a stapler? and some 2x4s?


----------



## loker

I have not been able to read this entire thread but is buy.com still having problems shipping out the correct screen?


----------



## joekun

I got one of these yesterday and it's really great. It almost completely elminated the SDE that I was seeing, and I was able to take off the ND2 filter I was using to do that before I got the screen. Now the image is nice and bright (even though I'm outside the cone with my ceiling mounted 4805). Only thing is I can't get it to retract!! I've read every post in this thread with the word "retract" in it but nothing worked. I mounted the screen more tightly to the wall, more loosely, tried pulling the screen out 1' from the wall, tried using the handle, tried putting my hands on the lower bar 1.5' on either side of the handle, EVERYTHING! It's really annoying to spend long periods of time trying to get it to retract. Half the time I have to take it down and lay it on the floor in order to finally get it back up, the other half I pull on it over and over again only to have it go up one notch. I repeat this process for 15-20 minutes or more finally getting it most of the way retracted.


Any help before I go insane would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Pit55

Hi from Germany, Joekun!

I had the same problem with the retract until I´ve read the manual :


"...Pull down on the pull bail,then raise quickly,as a window shade..."


I hope this will solve your problem,Pit


----------



## qposner

It will retract more easily over time. It took mine about 2 weeks before it retracts easily. Just remember to assist it on the way up so it doesn't stop.


----------



## joekun




> Quote:
> "...Pull down on the pull bail,then raise quickly,as a window shade..."



Thanks Pit, I did read that in the manual but didn't have any luck.



> Quote:
> It will retract more easily over time.



This is good news! Hopefully it will get better. Thanks!


----------



## thequietman









Hi, ordered the greywolf before Christmas, had it sitting there waiting to move to a new dwelling. Problem is, the screen was hung today but the screen literally fell out of the casing ( fully extended ) without having to pull on it. It retracts only 10" with no sign of any tension. i bought from buy.com. It is over 30 days from the order but the package was just opened today and found to be defective.


Buy.com tell me that they will see if it can be returned, (will inform me in 5 days by email).


Any advice, should i try tensioning the screen spring, if such a thing exists or persist with buy.com or optoma.










Thanks for any advice


thequietman


----------



## humbland

hi Tom/guitarman,

have you or any of the others here seen the graywolf with one of the new darkchip 3 projectors? they already have improved contrast and should work well with a white screen.

however, i want to set up a Benq PE8720 in a family room with ambient light issues. the PE 8720 is 1000 lumens, so it would probably work better with a ceiling mount.

any thoughts?

thanks,

eric


----------



## dr.c

I just purchased a Graywolf screen. I used it with ceiling mounted benq pb6200. I did a direct split screen comparison with my black out cloth screen. The blackout cloth was actually brighter at normal seating position. When I brought my head up towards the projector the Gray Hawk was actually brighter and showed improved contrast. This is definitely an item that works better if you are not using a ceiling mounted projector. I will be taking the Gray Hawk back for now and look for another option. I hope that helps anyone is on the fence that also has a ceiling mounted projector.


----------



## Nedtsc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dr.c* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just purchased a Gray Hawk screen. I used it with ceiling mounted benq pb6200. I did a direct split screen comparison with my black out cloth screen. The blackout cloth was actually brighter at normal seating position. When I brought my head up towards the projector the Gray Hawk was actually brighter and showed improved contrast. This is definitely an item that works better if you are not using a ceiling mounted projector. I will be taking the Gray Hawk back for now and look for another option. I hope that helps anyone is on the fence that also has a ceiling mounted projector.



You mean the graywolf don't you? If so it is retroflective screen. Grayhawk is a different screen from Stewart.


----------



## Nedtsc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *humbland* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hi Tom/guitarman,
> 
> have you or any of the others here seen the graywolf with one of the new darkchip 3 projectors? they already have improved contrast and should work well with a white screen.
> 
> however, i want to set up a Benq PE8720 in a family room with ambient light issues. the PE 8720 is 1000 lumens, so it would probably work better with a ceiling mount.
> 
> any thoughts?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> eric



Ambient light works better with gray screen + higher gain such as graywolf IMO.


----------



## dr.c




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nedtsc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You mean the graywolf don't you? If so it is retroflective screen. Grayhawk is a different screen from Stewart.



Yeah, my bad. I meant Graywolf. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Uatatoka

So I pulled the trigger last week and ordered a graywolf from buy.com - it was the correct version. The price was unbeatable with free shipping.


I can verify it is really just a gray screen with 0.8-0.9 gain when the projector is ceiling mounted. When my Z2 was on the coffee table I saw the 1.8 gain as it is retro-reflective. It really can help low light projectors if rear shelf or table mounted.


I have a light canon HD72 DLP on the way though so I may not need the gain. I'm thinking of using a dual screen setup - smaller fixed DIY screen (76") for standard def TV, and the 92" graywolf pull down over the fixed screen for HDTV & movies to be more in compliance with THX standards for film.


I'm not too pleased with "grainy" and "sparkley" look of the graywolf however, so I may end up ditching it. The waves of the non-tensioned screen can also be distracting. The price was great for what you get though.


Decisions, decisions...


----------



## alu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Uatatoka* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [...]



I was thinking of getting the same screen for my Z2, but "grainy" and "sparkley" sounds horrible I have to say. Also I can't believe how much of a difference ceilingmounted makes in the gain.


Are all pull-down screens non-tensioned?


----------



## Honu

my Costco GrayWolf showed up today excited to get it up and check it out









well box open I noticed the casing was Black ?? and read that others were white so the first flag was up that I had the wrong screen ?

well sure enough it was the matte white screen









so its going back tomorrow the one nice thing is Costco return policy so wasnt to worried more just a bummer


after reading more and more I am not sure it will be the screen I need anyway I am going to ceiling mount my Sharp DT400 which might be going away and replaced with a Optoma H78



anyway just a heads up for anyone ordering off Costco as you might get the wrong screen


----------



## corba

after seeing my friend's table mounted graywolf, i bought one and tried my ceiling mounted proj w/a 106" graywolf... no good with my Benq PE7700, even on bright.


if anybody near Orlando wants to pick up a 106" graywolf for $140, PM me.


----------



## drumsalong

After several years of thinking about installing a home theater, finally decided to go for it and purchased a Sanyo Z4 and a Greywolf 106" both purchased primarily because of the threads regarding these here on AVS. These are installed in a basement area about 22' X 15'. The projector is about 14' from the screen, with the main seating at 14' also. I have complete light control but the walls and ceiling are off white. I initially used the projector-coffee table mounted, and found the picture with the 'Living' setting of the projector to be good with the Greywolf, but kept going back to the off white wall-feeling it was better, primarily because it was brighter. The Greywolf did have better whites and would assume a better color balance due to the walls not being exactly white. I was using 'Rone's' tweak settings primarily, but made a few changes as these settings are calibrated using the HDMI input- not the component I'm using. I then decided to ceiling mount the projector as I didn't particularly like the projector on the coffee table nor the cables on the floor. I mounted the Z4 about 22"down from the 9' ceiling, putting the lens about 4" down from the top of the screens viewing area. The picture was then even darker as I'm sitting about 3' below the projector. Since I thought this was unacceptable but didn't want to go through the gyrations of returing the screen, I decided to see if I could adjust the projector to accomodate this setup. I found that by using the Z 4's 'Vivid' setting and turning off the enhanced sharpness in the advanced setting screen, and returning the color setting to '0', I now had a picture that was just incredible-nearly as good as my Mitsubishi 55" CRT HD upstairs. Of course because of the size of image the projector throws and the quality, it's hard to stop watching anything you become so engrossed in the images. I don't know how long the bulbs going to last with this setting as I know the iris is open and the bulb is on the brightest setting. Because the contrast is so good with this combination-daytime viewing with a limited amount of lighting is not bad. I probably just happened to find a mode that worked well because of the limitations of this screens setup. I do get an occasional 'splarky' but only one in the same place on the screen. I'm primarily using the Samsung TS-360 set top box for HD programming on 'D' at the 720p setting, running component video to the Sanyo. I just used my eyes to decide what I liked and didn't use any calibration tools although I'll probably do this sometime. I've also purchased a piece of 'Parkland' to see if I can get the same results using less 'bulb' and closing down the iris a bit.


----------



## BlackHawk77

I ran into the same issues with a ceiling mounted PJ and a 106 graywolf. I went with a Dalite model C in Video Spectra 1.5 gain($300) and I am really pleased with the difference. This screen is angular reflective unlike the retro of the graywolf. I will have to get pics one of these days.


----------



## mboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *loker* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have not been able to read this entire thread but is buy.com still having problems shipping out the correct screen?



Nope got mine for about $112 shipped from them back in Jan and arrived in MINT condition.


----------



## mboy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thequietman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, ordered the greywolf before Christmas, had it sitting there waiting to move to a new dwelling. Problem is, the screen was hung today but the screen literally fell out of the casing ( fully extended ) without having to pull on it. It retracts only 10" with no sign of any tension. i bought from buy.com. It is over 30 days from the order but the package was just opened today and found to be defective.
> 
> 
> Buy.com tell me that they will see if it can be returned, (will inform me in 5 days by email).
> 
> 
> Any advice, should i try tensioning the screen spring, if such a thing exists or persist with buy.com or optoma.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for any advice
> 
> 
> thequietman



Call Optoma, it is under warranty.


----------



## RyanJNielson

So what's the deal on fixed/electric models? Any ETA's???


----------



## sunnyvali

I installed the 92" yesterday and I was pleasantly surprised to see the vivid colors from my 4805 projector. Before this I was using DIY Parkland screen. My projector is mounted 7.5 feet from the ground and I must say that picture looks great... little dark while sitting, but I will take that over what I had. Parkland was good, but Greywolf is much better for my needs. I can now leave few lights on while watching a movie/games. My HT is setup on the main floor of the house...


----------



## taatjben

I have been reading up on these Graywolf screens and purchased one a few weeks back. Came from compsource. 92"


Screen is in good shape, but I have nothing to compare it too, really. the only issue I have is it doesn;t roll up smoothly, and wants to leave about an inch showing of the material when it;s all rolled up. Anyone have suggestions?


It does show a minor coloration/band on the top from the plastic. Not a big deal, in fact, only a couple of sceens could I notice it. Has anyone had a warranty clain with Optoma for this reason and was it successful and who paid shipping?

If it wasn;t too hard to do, I may try to get a new screen without the band.


Also, I found a great way to ceiling mount this thing. Go to Home Depot and but the stanley 2" corner braces. They are shaped like an L, with holes. I screwed it to the cieling, then used the top hole to bolt it to the keyhole slot on the screen. very sturdy and looks great. Much better than just hooks or chains.


Thanks for any suggestions on the two questions above.


----------



## brm

I've had my Graywolf for about 4 months now, about 130 hours on the projector (I know, I'm a piker), and the retraction has really gotten much better; it now usually stalls only once on the way up, a few inches from the top, and it takes only one or two quick jerks to get it to go all the way up. It still has some V-shaped wrinkles, but they're not noticeable if you're actually watching the show, rather than picking nits. I have a PJTX-100 mounted on a home-made torsion box floating shelf on the back wall of my viewing room. The PJ is almost exactly dead-center horizontally and vertically, and there is very little vertical or horizontal light fall-off at my viewing/throw distance of 12-14 feet. As for the banding issue, there's a lot of discussion about it earlier in the thread.


----------



## DaGamePimp

Well I just bought a 92" GrayWolf tonight for use with my Mitsubishi HC3000U that arrives tomorrow but after reading most of this thread I am not even going to open it ... back to CompUSA it goes . I have tried HCCV and HCDM but cannot stand the sparklie/dirty look of the image with those materials , it sounds like the GrayWolf is just as bad or worse in that regard . I will be ceiling mounted as well so not much point to the 1.8 gain GrayWolf for me . I guess I should have done more research on it before I made the purchase . Sounds like the only truly flat gray screen with no sheen is way more expensive (Stewart) .


--- Ah well , I guess it's back to my old 84" DIY BOC screen







.


-------- Jason


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DaGamePimp* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like the only truly flat gray screen with no sheen is way more expensive (Stewart) .



Did you mean among pull-down screens? There is the Carada gray in fixed for instance.


--Darin


----------



## DaGamePimp

Darin ,


--- I did not mean flat as in not wavy , I meant flat gray as in nothing added to the gray , no gain , no glass , no nothing







. I guess that Stewart makes such a screen and even though their quality is among the very best the cost most certainly is not







.


------------- Jason


----------



## ProjectorRookie

I'll toss in my 2c for the Graywolf. To people reading everything in these forums, and terrified of buying anything, the Graywolf is a great screen. I have the 106" and yes, it has a slight wrinkle on one side. When you project onto it, it completely disappears. The screen looks 100% flat. It has good gain, and no, it doesn't 'disappear' when you move 2 feet from the center. People here exaggerate horribly - I don't know if it's tweaker syndrome (I'm not a tweaker) or videophiles being videophiles, but it's a great screen.


Read all you can - yes. Don't let rants scare you - this site is chock full of negative opinions on just about every product in the marketplace. You just have to understand where a lot of it is coming from.


At least try *looking* at the Wolf before you assume it's this or that - you're not him or her, right?


----------



## sunnyvali

ProjectorRookie - I could not agree more with you. I was as hesitant as some of the members here but for $130, for me it was worth trying. And like I said in my previous post, I was surprised with the colors and blacks using this screen. I have 3 seat sofa and all 3 seats have good angle and that is what I was looking for. I don't have anyone sitting 6 feet on either side from the center! So this works for me. Looks profession and great value for the money.


----------



## Sloan1

I really enjoy my Graywolf, the image was better when projecting from coffee table, but I am now ceiling mounted, still great image, I find the viewing angle great, during larger gatherings people can be very far off angle with no complaints. Waves seem to come and go a little. However I have had problems with retraction mechanism from day 1. The screen will not retract more than a few inches, it's going back to Optoma for replacement.


This is might be a silly question but here goes! being retro reflective, & given that the image is not as bright when ceiling mounted, what would happen if the screen was cut from its housing and hung upside down....


----------



## Itsdon

It doesn't matter which way the screen is hanging, it will always reflect the light back to the source. I originally thought I could mount my couch to the ceiling to fix the cone issue...


----------



## Sloan1

Couch to the ceiling.... nice one, we could just watch standing up, how about a comfy tall bar stool....


All kidding aside, I understand it reflects to source.....hmmmm

I had it on a small table but it would only been a matter of time before kids knocked it off, (I almost knocked it off) I like the ceiling mount, but loved the image when table mounted.


----------



## Robert Clark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ProjectorRookie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll toss in my 2c for the Graywolf. To people reading everything in these forums, and terrified of buying anything, the Graywolf is a great screen. I have the 106" and yes, it has a slight wrinkle on one side. When you project onto it, it completely disappears. The screen looks 100% flat. It has good gain, and no, it doesn't 'disappear' when you move 2 feet from the center. People here exaggerate horribly - I don't know if it's tweaker syndrome (I'm not a tweaker) or videophiles being videophiles, but it's a great screen.
> 
> 
> Read all you can - yes. Don't let rants scare you - this site is chock full of negative opinions on just about every product in the marketplace. You just have to understand where a lot of it is coming from.
> 
> 
> At least try *looking* at the Wolf before you assume it's this or that - you're not him or her, right?




I've been playing with this screen for a couple weeks and I do agree with your thoughts. It is a fine screen for the price if you projector has adequate brightness, it really improved the blacks on my Panasonic AE500u. There is, of course a substantial lumens penalty for ceiling mounted projectors.


My thoughts compared to other screens I've owned are that the Highpower is still king if your projector isn't mounted too high and it has good black levels. I currently have a Draper M2500 screen (angular reflective) mounted so I can directly compare it with the Graywolf. The M2500 provides far more light and punch, with a terrific viewing angle.... BUT...... it has a distracting verticle texture that really rears it's ugly head in bright panning scenes. The Graywolf actually has a worse, more pronounced texture, but as it is completely even over the whole screen, it is actually much less noticable. Curious.


The M2500 could be the perfect cheap ceiling mounted screen if it wasn't for the damn vertical stripes....



Re: the wrinkle on one side, mine as a noticable sag on the left side, clearly it is not equally hung on the roller.


My solution was to go to "Osh" and get a small, very stong spring clamp. I lifted the left side of the screen with one hand, and clamped the left edge of the screen to the back opening edge of the white case. Voila, no more sag! It's very flat now...


----------



## drumsalong

I purchased a Draper Premier with 1300 screen material, after using the Greywolf for a while with my ceiling mounted Z4, and am very happy with this screen. Just brighter, more punch, wider viewing angle. Now I didn't want to change screens as the Greywolf was really perfect otherwise, light weight, easily mounted, I had no wrinkles at all and no problems retracting the screen although I planned to leave it down anyway. Great picture with the projector coffee table mounted. And at the price, it's a no brainer if you even think it might work in your situation. I think with so many variables thrown in the mix with different projectors, mounting methods, size, color and shape of room, not to mention our individual preferences and it's not unreasonable to see so many different opinions on any screen. I happen to gravitate toward the white screens as I think it looks snappier with my set-up. I'm happy with the black levels on this screen with the Z4. That's just my preference. I sincerely appreciate guitarman for introducing the Greywolf to me as I'm not one to spend money frivolously and am always looking for a good deal. Although it didn't work out for me in my configuration, it's definitely worth a look due to it's bargain pricing.


----------



## humbland

hi drumsalong,

we have a greywolf and i too am thinking of going to white electric screen...

what made you chooes the draper instead of da lite or some other electric screen manu.?

thanks,

eric


----------



## drumsalong

Hello Humbland, I just found the Draper at a great price and read a couple of posts (Tryg had a great synopsis on different screens and materials I remember reading in the DIY section I think) that indicated it was a good screen. Many other screen manufacturers have their champions as well here on AVS. Pretty much based mostly on price and the assumption the quality was good. I never had a chance to compare a cheap DIY screen like the Parkland, but before spending any large $, I would recommend you try this inexpensive ($17.00) approach (if available in your area) temporarily, and see if you like white better than the grey. You can always take it back if you like the Greywolf better. The Parkland screen will limit you to a 48" X 96" size (I'm using a 106" diag or 96" X 52" I believe) but will give you the differences.


----------



## AlienArchbishop

Hi!

I was thinking of getting a graywolf to pair up to an LG AN110, it is probably the best as it is retro reflective and the Projector will be on the wall. I'm just not too sure about the texture some of you say it has. Can someone post a picture of this? Is it very aparent for example on white scenes?


----------



## FlyOnTheWall

I posted this as a post of its own, but then reading this post, I think it belongs here instead..

here goes...


I have had my InFocus 4805 projecting on my white wall for a few months now. Overall, I am very happy with the picture, especiall with HD. I recently got a great deal on the Gray Wolf 92" (DS-9092PM) and have been reading up on this particular model.


My 4805 is celiling mounted, which I heard wasnt the best for this type of screen. All I really want to know, is if this will look better than my naked white wall has looked for the past few months.


Anyone have a simialr setup and would like to throw in their .02 cents.


Thanks


Scott


----------



## Robert Clark




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AlienArchbishop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I was thinking of getting a graywolf to pair up to an LG AN110, it is probably the best as it is retro reflective and the Projector will be on the wall. I'm just not too sure about the texture some of you say it has. Can someone post a picture of this? Is it very aparent for example on white scenes?




Hi AA,

What experiences have you had with other screens? That would give me a good idea of what you might consider objectionable.


The GrayWolf has a slight texture as is normal with a glassbeaded screen, but the texture is very even across the screen and I find it not to be objectionable (I was concerned with this as I have had several screens over the years that had pronounced texture.)


As soon as I saw it in person at CES I knew it would not be bad. It has a fe w sparklies, on white scences there is a mild texture visible. I would only use the Graywolf if I felt my projector needed help with black levels and ambient light rejection. Otherwise I would use the Highpower...


Using it with a wall mount projector such as the LG would probably be pretty good actually. It has a very narrow cone, one of the more narrow screens I've used.


----------



## foobart




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FlyOnTheWall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I posted this as a post of its own, but then reading this post, I think it belongs here instead..
> 
> here goes...
> 
> 
> I have had my InFocus 4805 projecting on my white wall for a few months now. Overall, I am very happy with the picture, especiall with HD. I recently got a great deal on the Gray Wolf 92" (DS-9092PM) and have been reading up on this particular model.
> 
> 
> My 4805 is celiling mounted, which I heard wasnt the best for this type of screen. All I really want to know, is if this will look better than my naked white wall has looked for the past few months.
> 
> 
> Anyone have a simialr setup and would like to throw in their .02 cents.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> Scott



I had the graywolf with my ceiling mount 4805 (about 7 ft high) for a few weeks, and was quite unhappy with it because it seemed too dull and lacked punch in the colors. I tried liking it but couldn't.


After some agonizing, looking at samples and researching here, I got the hipower (92"), and couldn't be happier. Colors are great and I don't have any complaints with the blacks either. Waves are (visibly) non-existent, which is a great plus. The screen build quality is great. It was about 120 bucks more (from thefinalclick.com) than the graywolf, but that wasn't even a consideration for me.


I use my PJ only in the night, so I didn't try to factor in daytime or high ambient light viewing conditions. I just gave up on this aspect because it was introducing too many complexities into the decision and compromising night-time viewing. I just use my 50" RP DLP for this, and wait for the night. But with some ambient light, the hi power is very viewable.


My experience is by and large similar to that of itsdon who's posted a bit about his comparison in this thread.


If one's perfectly happy with the graywolf, look no further, but if you're unhappy about the colors and punch it's definitely worth looking at the Hipower. It's almost a magical screen, I feel.


----------



## puppypilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkirby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I am trying to say is that - all things considered - is the Graywolf great for the $ for those who can't afford Stewart/Vutect?



The answer is yes. For the price that it can be had, the Graywolf delivers a very very credible picture with deeper blacks that can be accomplished by a white screen. For the kind of money, I believe it to be a better solution than even a DIY screen unless one really really wants to engage screen building.


----------



## puppypilgrim

Haven't finished reading all 43 pages of this thread but thought I would throw in my review here for those considering this screen.


BACKGROUND

I bought an Optoma DV10 DarkChip2 based DLP rated at 1000 lumens and 4000 CR using ImageAI from Futureshop.ca. Within a month of the purchase, I returned the projector to buy the same thing from Costco.ca except that this time, the purchase was $200 cheaper based on the manufacturer's coupon and came with a 92" 16:9 Panoview Graywolf screen. Up to this point, I was using a 72" 4:3 Draper matte white screen (that model name and number is not identified on the case).


PACKAGING & APPEARANCE

The screen was packaged in a lightweight cardboard box with a couple pieces of white polystyrene braces. This was very poor packaging and would be easily susceptible to shipping damages in my opinion. In my case, nothing was damaged (whew!). Pulling the screen from the plastic bag however, I note that the case is made of rather unsubstantial metal. Therefore, it is relatively light for its size. If the Draper metal case is akin to Mercedes sheetmetal, the Graywolf is akin to an early Hyundai.


The case is a shiny white with black letters on it. The case frankly looks cheap. Two white plastic hooks on either ends of the case allow you to attach the screen to the wall using screw. If you need to ceiling mount, you can adapt some hooks for this purpose too.


Pulling the screen from the case, I too discovered the clear plastic liner in the last 1/3 of the screen. I needed my wife's help to retract the screen.


The surface of the gray screen had sparklies. I wasn't sure if they would be visible during projection. More on this later.


So with great anticipation, I centred and hung the screen having levelled it with a 3 foot level. Until I read all the fuss about the white case in this thread, I never felt this to be a problem. However, I am in a 99% light controlled room.


ROOM, PJ & SCREEN SETUP

Several things to note as mitigating factors in my review. First, I am using a relatively bright projector. Second, my PJ is only 480 lines. Third, if you look at the link for my home theatre, you will see that the bottom of the screen is mounted roughly 30" maybe 33" above the floor requiring one to look up slightly towards the screen rather than down. This is not an issue with my family since we purchase an 81" wide reclining sofa (think a 3 person Lazy Boy) with a high back. Fourth, my projector is table mounted (the DV10 is designed that way).


The projector is setup in USER mode (very close to the Cinema mode) with Bright Mode OFF calibrated with Digital Video Essentials. I have to add that the DV10 is fairly accurate out of the box with a minor red push which I adjusted.


The room is 99% light controlled even during the day. The 1% consists of a 1" strip where the black curtains are unable to fully cover the light spill from the windows that also have venetian blinds during the day. Most of my watching is during the night so even the little bit of spill is not present.


FIRST IMPRESSIONS & COMPARISONS

I started noticing differences right away when I popped in DVE for calibration. The grey computer graphic backgrounds of the DVE disc were just that: truly gray! With my Draper matte white screen, I could never get a true gray. Yes, I tried different RGB gain\\offsets for each individual color and could never get the perfect neutral without a color tint.


Anyways, next came familiar movies like Hero, Die Hard 1 and even regular SD TV. Right away, I saw that skin tones were finally spot on and looked really like real skin tones. I never realized how colored the former skin tones were on the Draper until I saw more correct ones on the Graywolf. DLP projectors are known to be capable of good blacks. With the matte white, I perceived dithering on some dark areas of the picture and then only in certain DVDs. With the Graywolf, none. Just beautiful deep, inky blacks increasing my perceived contrast of the picture.


With the matte white screen, highlights were often over exposed or crushed (even after being correctly calibrated). This is apparent in areas of the screen with extreme brightness or hairlight or shoulder rim light on actors. No such case with the Graywolf. Highlight details were preserved. The colors were just more correct, richer without being over saturated and more substantive with greater depth. It's kind of like seeing a washed out over bright LCD and a properly adjusted plasma. The plasma looks richer, deeper and delivers a more three dimensional visual quality to the display.


Moving up from a 72" 4:3 to a 92" 16:9 screen with retaining a seating position within 6 inches of the former meant that I went from a 2.0x width viewing ratio to a 1.6x viewing ratio. This is usually not recommended for a 480 line projector as you can see picture structures at this viewing distance. Ideally one would want a 720 line projector to avoid seeing picture elements. I can see picture elements at this distance when I choose to. This is most apparent in whites. However if I focus on the story, I don't see anything at all. In anything except for bright whites, I cannot see either pixels or picture elements that are not part of the grain of the picture.


What about the sparklies and the screen wave from the untensioned screen? I stopped seeing the sparklies and didn't notice them. The screen wave is there but once you have a picture projecting on it, you don't notice it at all and it doesn't affect my sense of picture quality.


What about the white case? With my implementation (its higher on the wall than most people) it is simply out of my peripheral vision. I don't even know its there unless I cast my eyes to look at the case.


SOME THOUGHTS

I think you can tell by now that I really like the Graywolf. Previously under the old matte white screen, I had attributed picture imperfections to the limitations of projector technology without realizing the huge difference a screen could make. With the Graywolf, my dissatisfaction regarding highlights and shadows, rim light and white detail have been dealt with. Given what it does to whites and highlights, I have no issue believing that the Graywolf can reduce perceived RBEs. I have only seen RBEs in one DVD (Sin City) but this was with the old matte white screen. When I have time, I shall try Sin City again with the Graywolf. Perhaps the gray will not fatigue the eyes as much and reduce RBEs for my viewing of Sin City.


Much depends on the particular combination of effective projector brightness, the screen and picture settings on the PJ. With a bright projector like the DV10, a bright white screen is probably not the best choice as its too white for the light output. The DV10 with this Graywolf is a remarkable combination and at the price I paid for the projector and screen combo, represents and unheard of bargain in the landscape of home theatre in the Canadian market.


If you have a dim projector and need the boost, a white screen may be a better choice. If you have a bright projector and want a great quality screen at a low price, you may wish to try the Graywolf. The picture quality it delivers for its price is well worth it. If you have tweaked your projector to death and still cannot achieve picture nirvana (like I was), making a change in screen might be the final step in giving you what projector tweaking alone could not accomplish.


SUMMARY

Last night I put in the Celtic Women DVD. Its a musical concert that can be hard of video originated sources as the concert constantly has bright lights that shine directly onto the camera lens. The singers are variously backlit, side lit, hair light with rim light everything, dolly and crane shots that rotate around the performers with stage lighting constantly shining directly into the camera lens. I am very familiar with the DVD as I use it to judge various audio and visual elements of my tweaking. The Graywolf made a world of difference with this DVD. The high contrast, demanding lighting environment coupled with detailed close ups of the performer's faces, orchestra and soloists make great subjects to evaluate picture quality.


The Draper looked obviously video-like. No surprise. The capture source was video. The Graywolf made it look filmic. The perceived gamma curve of the gray screen picture is smoothed out with less hard clipping that a white matte displays. Colors, richness, depth,visual nuance, texture. Its all there. The Graywolf really lets the strength of the DV10's brightness and DLP contrast ratio really shine. The other night, my wife and I watched "Walk the Line". For once I forgot about tweaking a picture and just sat with the movie. Previously, I would watch the picture and start making a mental list of adjustments I should try to get a better flesh tone or something. Well, since I had the Graywolf setup, all I have been pressing is play, stop and aspect ratio switch on my projector remote control.


For me, I have at last discovered picture nirvana. At least until 1080p PJs come down to my price range.......


----------



## puppypilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *romanesq* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I didn't see the opening collage but just seeing additional HD material at night, you would swear the AE700 is not the same projector.



The effect is so dramatic that one would be tempted to think we got a projector upgrade instead of a screen upgrade. Like you, I found the picture to vastly improved (see my long review in this thread) and more filmic. Panning, slow dolly shots and cranes just look great.


Whereas my previous Draper looked coarse in comparison, the Gray Wolf looks smooth with a rich but not artificially saturated plasma screen like image.


Bang for buck I don't think this screen can be beat. For those with more disposable income, maybe a Stewart Firehawk is better. But for the price, it means I can buy another DV10 with the 92" screen!


----------



## Zanna

Hi everyone,


I just spoke with a reseller of graywolf here in canada and he told me that the "old" Graywolf model is not sold anymore and that they are making a new one with increased black drop, as well as the new glass beaded screen surface.


this apparently is also more expensive 400+ CAD$.


Anyone heard of this new model? is it any better?


I checked the Optoma website but there seems to be notthing new there


----------



## Honu

Zanna if thats true ?? that could be cool maybe they figured out a way to have less a grainy structure ?


also wonder if the fixed or electric models mentioned in the first post are what he is seeing ??


----------



## Zanna

I asked further clarification to the seller and he provided me with this info related to then new screen:


Product

DS-GWII9092PM

Specification

16:9 High Contrast Cinema Grey Screen

92" diagonal, 16:9 Screen size. Manual Pull Down

New Glass beaded gray screen, increased black drop.


Looking at the specification it seems that they are using a new glass beaded probably to solve the complain about granularity and also improved the blacks. But here is just me guessing.... I've no idea if it will be better. More expensive for sure.


Personally I went for the old model from another seller as I'm not up for the extra money.


PS: it also seems that they will have a 120" version.


Zanna


----------



## Honu

did he have any idea on when the new ones will be out ??

cool 120







if its better then might be a good option


----------



## 4armo

I know I've already posted this but if you're in Canada and looking for the Greywolf, try www.neutroncanada.com . Waaay cheaper than anything else you're going to find. It arrived this week and looks great. A little sparkly, but i've yet to really dial it in.


One another note, I'm wondering if there is a easy way to increase the tension in the retracting mechanism. I took off the harware on the sides to see if they were reversible (which they are not) and i let some of the tension off of the spring by accident.. any ideas?


Thanks


----------



## shovven

Did they say when the GW mkII would be avaliable??


If I understand correctly, they will use smaller beads... similar to da-lite High Power?? Will the screen be darker or the same as it is now??


Shovven


----------



## Zanna

I'm not sure about when GWII will be available. For what I understand it may be already available now!


You may want to ask them. The shop name was Ontario Acoustics.


All I have is this list of new screen offered by Optoma.


PS: I hope the attachment will wok as I don't see it in the preview


----------



## Honu

Zanna







thanks I see the attached

now if they get them in the US










since the main thing I did not like was the grainy texture my old GH went back

but if its better







could be a great screen for light colored rooms


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Zanna* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not sure about when GWII will be available. For what I understand it may be already available now!
> 
> 
> You may want to ask them. The shop name was Ontario Acoustics.
> 
> 
> All I have is this list of new screen offered by Optoma.
> 
> 
> PS: I hope the attachment will wok as I don't see it in the preview




Whoa! Anyone else notice in that list that they have confirmed they will be offering an electric 92" screen, and a fixed 106" screen!?!?!


My biggest problem I have with my 106 greywolf right now is the the waves - a fixed screen would definately fix that! I wonder what the pricing will be...


----------



## steinre1

Just found this:

http://www.optomausa.com/PressReleas...sp?Press_id=27 


Optoma Introduces its Family of Panoview High-Performance Projector Screens to Complement its Full Line of Projectors


The New Panoview Series of Screens Enhances Contrast and Brightness Levels


LAS VEGAS ( Jan. 5, 2006 ) - Optoma debuts the Panoview line of front projection screens. This high-performance line of screens brings to life the images and pictures to the home or corporate environment. The new Panoview screens come in four categories: motorized, fixed-frame, portable-lift and manual pull-down.


The Panoview screens by Optoma are a line of high-end projection screens that feature a full range of benefits, including increased contrast and brightness levels, greater light distribution, ambient light resistance and increased black levels to show vivid and brilliant images. With the Panoview screens, images are projected with superior brightness without compromising the depth through its 1.8 gain screen.


Motorized Screens:

The motorized Panoview screens feature a screen drop time of approximately 60 seconds*, quiet operation, a longer black drop and wireless remote control. The motorized screens come in 16:9 aspect ratio with sizes from 92-inches to 120-inches diagonal and 4:3 with 100- and 120-inch sizes in diagonal.


Fixed-Frame:

Panoview fixed-frame screens come with an elegant velvet frame to complement any professional installation. The fixed-frame screens also use a smooth-secure system, a proprietary locking system which securely fastens the screen to the frame. This allows for quicker installation of the virtually wrinkle-free screen. The smooth-secure system also renders a flatter installation in various temperature conditions.


Portable-Lift:

The portable-lift screens allow for quick and mobile transportation. The Panoview portable-lift screens feature the Sure-Reel guiding system for smooth and easy setup and packing. The Sure-Reel system secures the screen's fabric and makes sure that it doesn't get ripped or tangled when lifted up or brought back down.


Pull-Down (Manual):

The manual pull-down screens from Panoview are using a new glass-beaded, gray screen, making for crisper picture quality. The gray pull-down screen features an increased black drop, making for easier set-up. The manual pull-down screens are constructed for quick installation and discrete operation.


Model

Estimated MRSP


Motorized



DE-MW3100E 4:3, 100-inch

$599.00


DE-MW3120E 4:3, 120-inch

$699.00


DE-GWII9092E 16:9, 92-inch

$599.00


DE-GWII9106E 16:9, 106-inch

$699.00


DE-GWII9120E 16:9, 120-inch

$799.00





Fixed-Frame



DF-GWII9092F 16:9, 92-inch

$699.00


DF-GWII9106F 16:9, 106-inch

$799.00


DF-GWII9120F 16:9, 120-inch

$899.00





Portable-Lift



DP-GWII9084A 16:9, 84-inch

$399.00


DP-GWII9092A 16:9, 92-inch

$499.00





Pull-Down (Manual)



DS-GWII9092P 16:9, 92-inch

$299.00


DS-GWII9106P 16:9, 106-inch

$399.00


DS-GWII9120P 16:9, 120-inch

$499.00



*estimated time based on 92-inch 16:9 screen.


----------



## jonnyozero3

Wow, I think they're offering everything we've ever asked them to. Very nice. I would have hoped the prices would be lower, but I guess it's MSRP, so it isn't too bad.


----------



## lax01

$700 for a fixed frame? are they drunk?


----------



## GreenMonkey

Still no 4:3 graywolf, I see. *sigh*


----------



## Nedtsc

From your list above it looks like only the manual pull down has the new material.


----------



## millerwill

I've just about churned my way all throug these many pages and like just about everything about the GW. (Had been focusing on the Dalite HP, but the GW really sounds better for me.)


The only 'issue' that seems to be a problem is that I plan to sit fairly close ~ 1.5 x screen width, and wonder if the grainy texture that has been noted with be a problem at such a distance. What are the thoughts of you that actually have this screen? Tx much!


----------



## puppypilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The only 'issue' that seems to be a problem is that I plan to sit fairly close ~ 1.5 x screen width, and wonder if the grainy texture that has been noted with be a problem at such a distance. What are the thoughts of you that actually have this screen? Tx much!



If you sit that close I think you will start seeing the screen texture. What resolution and display type is your HT setup?


----------



## Assayer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I plan to sit fairly close ~ 1.5 x screen width, and wonder if the grainy texture that has been noted with be a problem at such a distance. What are the thoughts of you that actually have this screen?



The question is not how many many screen widths back you sit, but rather how many feet back. The texture doesn't scale with the screen size. I thought the texture was fairly annoying at 12' back, but started to fade below my perception threshold at 14'-15'. The actual distance for you will probably vary based on your eye sight and how picky you are. If they fix the issues with the gain layer in version 2, the point may become moot. I gave my old one away, but if they fix the quality and texture issues, I may have to give version 2 a try.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Assayer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The question is not how many many screen widths back you sit, but rather how many feet back. The texture doesn't scale with the screen size. I thought the texture was fairly annoying at 12' back, but started to fade below my perception threshold at 14'-15'. The actual distance for you will probably vary based on your eye sight and how picky you are. If they fix the issues with the gain layer in version 2, the point may become moot. I gave my old one away, but if they fix the quality and texture issues, I may have to give version 2 a try.



Hmm... I will be sitting ~ 12 ft away. Is 'version 2' soon to be out?


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *puppypilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bang for buck I don't think this screen can be beat. For those with more disposable income, maybe a Stewart Firehawk is better. But for the price, it means I can buy another DV10 with the 92" screen!



I have no doubt that the Stewart FH has much better 'build quality' than the Optoma GW, but I think that the retro-reflective character of the GW is preferable to the FH's angular-reflective character (which tends to hot-spotting quite frequently, and requires a very long 'throw'). I'm thus hoping that the new model (described above) GW's have improved build quality--especially the fixed-frame models that I'm interested in--and this will make they increased price worthwhile.


----------



## Honu

contacted Optoma

I asked about availability and if the texture or material has changed

this was the reply


"The screens are about 4 weeks away from shipping.

We will have all the information posted on our website once we nail it down."


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nedtsc* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From your list above it looks like only the manual pull down has the new material.



According to message #1282 all the new screens will be GWII which I presume will be the new material.


----------



## jennifer drayton

HELP!

I am interested in buying, from Costco, the Optoma

92" Cinema High Contrast HDTV Gray Projection Screen which is Costco item #967607 and Optoma Model DS-9092PM to go with Costco's Panasonic AE900U as well. I will be sitting about 11 feet back. Will this work for me or is it too close for this screen?


----------



## millerwill

You'll have a viewing distance-to-screen diagonal ratio of ~ 1.43, which is a bit closer than the oft quoted THX recommended value of 1.5, but not much (11.5 ft back would put you right at 1.5). But many people like sit quite a bit closer (1.2, etc.); it's all a very personal matter. I would like it at your distance just fine.


----------



## Honu

Jennifer just be ready to bring the screen back in case its the wrong one ??

not sure if everyone got white screens ? but I ordered a 92 and it was white not the gray

no biggy in a sense that costco is so good with returns







but good info to know


as far as distance you should be good









when you go to the theater are you the type that likes to sit in the last 1/3 or the front 1/3 ?


----------



## millerwill

Does anybody have a reference to any more info about the new GWII screens? These have me really excited, for I do want a high gain, gray, retro-reflective screen, and the GW is just about it. It's only drawback for me has been the reports of the screen texture and the lack of a fixed-frame model. Now they are coming out with fixed-frame models (though quite a bit pricier than the pull-downs), and reports of a new beaded surface raises the hope that the past surface irregularities will be corrected. Sounds VERY promising (but isn't everything until it actually arrives!).


----------



## jennifer drayton

Thanks for the input Honu and Millerwill. I hope it works out too. On Costco's site they say it is gray projection so I hope they send the right one. Their return policy alone is why I am buying it all there.


I like to sit in the middle of the theater


----------



## fnertz

Ambient Light Does anyone know how the Graywolf performs in high ambient light situations?


----------



## Honu

fnertz best to read the posts










but yes it does very well its a great screen and like anything there is a balance in that it has a sparkly grainy look in the white areas

but with its high gain and super dark surface its a great screen if you dont mind the grainy sparkly look

I hated it my wife didnt mind it ??

our room has white walls and even in bright mixed scenes the darks stayed dark










now with the version 2 I am excited to see how they have changed it


if I were doing a permanent theater room I would look at other screens though and get samples etc..


----------



## puppypilgrim

Previously on a Draper matte white screen I reported that at 72" screen width, I saw RBEs all over Sin City (high contrast black and white). This scared the living daylights out of me as I had not up to that point seen any RBEs on any type of material.


I was worried that I had somehow become RBE-sensitive and had jinxed my DLP projector. I recently had cause to upgrade to a 92" diagonal Graywolf Panoview which is gray in color with a 1.8 gain. Last night I was able to test Sin City again and am pleased to report that the Graywolf exhibited no RBEs this time. Whew!


I attribute this to two chief reasons: first, going from 72" wide to 92" diagonal reduced the effective brightness of the projector. Second, going froma matte white screen to a gray screen reduced the effects of RBEs.


----------



## obco

I just purchased a 92" graywolf screen. I've got it hanging in my garage to air out and when I pulled the screen down there is a 1" long thin black mark 12" in from the right side. Anyone have any ideas how to remove it?


----------



## obco

If solved the mark problem. I very gently rubbed the area with a soft cloth and the mark came right off.


----------



## millerwill

The 'Graywolfs' have been awfully silent of late. Any more info (or even rumors) about the GW II?


----------



## Mike Matheson

Anyone know of a source in the UK for the DS-9092PM?


----------



## akdude47

I have a question, I have researched, but havn't gotten and exact answer yet.


I have a Infocus X1 and it has kept me happy with a simple black out cloth screen I made a couple of years ago. I basically want to keep this for another year before I upgrade.


Would a Greywolf help me even though my projector is mounted at 7ft?


A bit more color punch and percieved contrast would be nice. Brightness would be great, but I don't expect the world considering it is retroreflective.


----------



## Assayer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akdude47* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would a Greywolf help me even though my projector is mounted at 7ft?
> 
> 
> A bit more color punch and percieved contrast would be nice. Brightness would be great, but I don't expect the world considering it is retroreflective.



With the projector mounted at 7ft, you will be outside the peak of the cone and will be lucky to see a gain of 1 in your best seat directly under the projector, so you won't improve color saturation and may lose some, especially in any secondary seats. But it would help tame any room reflections and improve ambient light rejection. My sense is that you are probably better off to apply the money towards your projector upgrade budget unless you are having light control problems.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Assayer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With the projector mounted at 7ft, you will be outside the peak of the cone and will be lucky to see a gain of 1 in your best seat directly under the projector, so you won't improve color saturation and may lose some, especially in any secondary seats.



What do you feel is a 'safe' distance above eye level that the GW can be mounted? I'm considering a GW--one of the new 'fixed frame' models that are supposed to be brought out within a few weeks--and the lens of the pj would be ~ 52" above the floor, compared to eye-level of ~ 38". I'm assuming that will be OK. Do you agree?


----------



## SUPERMAN180

I just mounted my greywolf screen and PJ, with the PJ mounted at 6'8" off the ground it looks great! There is some drop off in gain, for instance if I stand up the image definitely gets brighter but not by much. At 7' you would be a bit more out of the cone than my setup but you probably would still be ok.


Mike


----------



## Assayer

To be develope an half-way accurate gain estimate, we would need to dust off the old trig book from high school or college, and work out the viewing angles. Darin had taken some light measurements and estimated the peak gain as being about 1.4, which basically means we are looking at a glass bead gain curve with a 0.56 gray base. So calculate the angle from projector lens to the middle of your screen to your eye, reference a glass bead gain curve from dalite or draper product literature, and multiply by 0.56 to correct for the gray base. Don't forget to repeat this calculation for angles representative of your secondary seating locations as well.


If they have reformulated version 2, this math could all change to some degree so take it with a large grain of salt.


----------



## H20

greetings,


I'm very new to the PJ world and looking for some advice. I picked up a Infocus 4805 a few days ago, I am now trying to narrow down which screen will suit my needs/setup best. From what I have read in these pages, the 92" Graywolf seems like a very interesting candidate.


Viewing room is a 16' x 12' box of dull flat-white loviness. I've attached the 4805 to some plexiglass and mounted it to very sturdy professional camera stand (came out very nice BTW). Giving me the option to move PJ around if needed, and most important of all allowing me adjust height & angle as per needs too!










If I can keep proper screen set up and PJ close to eye level from viewing arrangement. Would a 92" Graywolf be a nice investment for me?


----------



## millerwill

Still no info about the new Graywolf, the GWII? I presume we will have a flurry of activity and reports when it finally appears (at least I hope so). If they have solved the 'screen surface texture' issue, this may be a really nice product, sort of a synthesis of the HighPower and Firehawk all in one. And also fixed screen versions!


----------



## iamfranki

I received a Grey Wolf II from Costco. It is marked so on the carton box and on the screen case










So far I just mounted it and It looks smooth with no area's of tracks.


I am awaiting a AE900 (due Monday) from costco as well. Ill Mount the projector hopefully this week and let ya all know how I feel.


Looks like GWII is out so that's my news.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I received a Grey Wolf II from Costco. It is marked so on the carton box and on the screen case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far I just mounted it and It looks smooth with no area's of tracks.
> 
> 
> I am awaiting a AE900 (due Monday) from costco as well. Ill Mount the projector hopefully this week and let ya all know how I feel.
> 
> 
> Looks like GWII is out so that's my news.



Wow--this is exciting! Let us hear all about it when you've got it going, with all the specifics of you set-up.


----------



## Chadci

I got my 92" Graywolf last week and I am using the Z3 projector. Its a great combo but having never had any other screen or projector thats not a very good review. did notice some of the texture right off but I am able to overlook it most of the time. The sparkles do get my attention quite a bit though.


I do have the faint line about 1/3 down from the top. I only really notice it on really bright scenes and while it does annoy me, thats really my only gripe and I can live with it. I am thinking of building a b/o screen just to compare but so far so good!


----------



## Chezbrgr2

I have an Infocus In72 on the way to replace my dead 4805.

Right now I have a 106' B/O cloth screen, I want to know if this Graywolf screen in a 92" size is a good match for this unit.


Need to order today so any advice would be great.


----------



## megalopav

I don't see the GWII at costco's website. can't even find information for it on google nor optoma's website.


any links to costco page with the GWII?


----------



## iamfranki

Im not sure what to say but costco list the DS-9092PM as the part number for the greywolf they carry.


This is exactly what I ordered on-line and when it showed up last week the box says "Grey Wolf II". I think the roman number II is unique to the GW II.


Anyhow, tonight Ill attach a JPEG of the box and screen case lettering just to make sure Im not misinterpreting what think it is.


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im not sure what to say but costco list the DS-9092PM as the part number for the greywolf they carry.
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I ordered on-line and when it showed up last week the box says "Grey Wolf II". I think the roman number II is unique to the GW II.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, tonight Ill attach a JPEG of the box and screen case lettering just to make sure Im not misinterpreting what think it is.




Yeah, I checked the Costco website too and they don't list the GW II screens... may be they're just late in updating the info on their website.


iamfrank: is your GWII a manual screen or electric?


----------



## iamfranki

FremontRich,


I have the manual pulldown 92" diagonal screen


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyhow, tonight Ill attach a JPEG of the box and screen case lettering just to make sure Im not misinterpreting what think it is.



Thanks. Could you maybe take a picture of the screen material from off angle without a flash? Or just look at it with bright white on the screen. The Graywolf I have from months ago has a pattern that is almost like teardrops of gray on white or like if gray paint was splattered on white and then hung to dry vertically (where the gray would run just slightly and not completely cover the white behind). Kind of hard to explain, but it is pretty evident from up close that the screen surface is not uniform. Especially when looking from the sides with the projector on or with the projector off and just normal room lights.


--Darin


----------



## iamfranki

Here a few low rez shot's of the screen case , shipping carton and screen.


From the label on the back of the case it lists 060218 as a date (must be 18FEB06) this could be date made or date inspected


----------



## Assayer

It's marked directly on the case in the pic, so this must be the real thing.


Can you comment on whether there is any distinct texture or significant sparkle? You should be able to determine this with a flashlight if your projector is not installed yet.


----------



## steinre1

any noticeable waves on the GWII?


----------



## iamfranki

The questions above -


Are there wrinkles ? - unfortunately yes, but I'm neither suprised or concerned. The wrinkles are near the bottom somewhat V shaped, perhaps 4 different wrinkles. This could be my installation as I haven't yet checked for horizontal or vertical levelness.


The screen is hanging from j hooks from a piece of woood a that I mounted into the ceiling joists. Hanging from a J hook should render it plumbed vertically.


Are there sparkles? - sort of, as I walk up close and look at and angle I can see some small flecks of shininess. From straight on it looks flat (i.e. no shine like flat paint). The screen color looks a bit more silver than I imagined but I can't say if it looks different than GW 1 as I haven't seen that screen.


Im working on the projector mounting and a soffit around the screen case for now.


To verify, the top of the screen picture is 20" down from the ceiling and I'll be ceiling hanging the projector at least 20" down from the ceiling - makes sense?


The projector will be 14' back from the screen(backwall) and seats are 13'.


----------



## millerwill

iamfranki: two questions/comments:


1) In the third photo above it looks like there are verticle stripes on the screen, particularly on the far side. Is this just an illusion in the photo, or are they really there?


2) It sounds like you are planning to mount the pj at the ht of the top of the screen. But I thought that the retro-reflective nature of the GW required it to be mounted as near to eye level as possible, e.g., no more a foot (or 2 at most) above eye level, at least for best results with it. Is this different with the GW II?


----------



## iamfranki

The photo of the screen - it looks like vertical stripes soley because of the way I took the picture and the low rez requirements of this site.


I am stuck with a ceiling mount due to WAF. Yes I know with the GW products (GW II hasn't changed this) shooting straight ahead from a shelf is the way to go but I cant go that route.


I was just checking if my ceiling mount plan looks reasonable not the best


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The photo of the screen - it looks like vertical stripes soley because of the way I took the picture and the low rez requirements of this site.



Would it be possible to take a picture from up close that would indicate any screen texture? Other than the sparkles, can you see any texture to the screen from up close?


Thanks,

Darin


----------



## iamfranki

darnip2


The screen material looks very uniform; no swirls, blotches or miore patterns.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> darnip2
> 
> 
> The screen material looks very uniform; no swirls, blotches or miore patterns.



just full of jpeg artifacts


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The photo of the screen - it looks like vertical stripes soley because of the way I took the picture and the low rez requirements of this site.
> 
> 
> I am stuck with a ceiling mount due to WAF. Yes I know with the GW products (GW II hasn't changed this) shooting straight ahead from a shelf is the way to go but I cant go that route.
> 
> 
> I was just checking if my ceiling mount plan looks reasonable not the best



I'm hoping Tom (Guitarman) will comment... he would be able to tell us how much the GWII material differs from the original GW screens.


----------



## mkerdman

Would you guys think this screen would be a good match for a Panasonic AE900 3LCD projector?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...opnav=&browse= 


Thanks!


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkerdman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would you guys think this screen would be a good match for a Panasonic AE900 3LCD projector?
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...opnav=&browse=
> 
> 
> Thanks!



heh, alot of us have the GW and we like it...however with the GWII coming out, I'd wait and see how its improved


----------



## mkerdman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lax01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> heh, alot of us have the GW and we like it...however with the GWII coming out, I'd wait and see how its improved



Thanks for the tip- I did not know about the GW II.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mkerdman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tip- I did not know about the GW II.



just look up like 2-3 threads...


----------



## Brajesh

Looks like buy.com will have the Gray Wolf II 106" soon for $350. The price is double that of the original Gray Wolf, but if it's a significant improvement, it may be worth it. I'd buy it if the material has a smoother surface and the sparklies are reduced.


----------



## smurdy

I also just received the Graywolf II from Costco. I have an original Graywolf up right now. From a quick glance, there is a texture that you can still see, but it is more even. There are still sparkles, but the whites seem whiter on this one. When I get some time this evening, I'll take some pictures of both to compare. If anybody has specific scenes from movies you want me to take pics of, just let me know. I'll do what I can as long as it doesnt get crazy.


-Smurdy


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smurdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I also just received the Graywolf II from Costco. I have an original Graywolf up right now. From a quick glance, there is a texture that you can still see, but it is more even. There are still sparkles, but the whites seem whiter on this one. When I get some time this evening, I'll take some pictures of both to compare. If anybody has specific scenes from movies you want me to take pics of, just let me know. I'll do what I can as long as it doesnt get crazy.
> 
> 
> -Smurdy



Did you just order the standard 92" Graywolf 1 shown on their website but got the GW2? Also, has the retracting mechanism been beefed up? The original one is a pain in the rear.


----------



## smurdy

Yes. I just ordered the standard 92 inch screen from costco. I think the retracting mechanism is the exact same, I'll take a closer look later.


-Smurdy


----------



## Brajesh

smurdy, can you try any DVDs and hi-def with bright white scenes. I'd like to know if the GWII makes those areas look 'dirty' like the original GW. Looking forward to your pics.


----------



## Assayer

Smurdy,


Is the grey base essentially the same shade of gray as GW1, or have they tweaked that also? How would you characterize the changes? This is of course, completely subjective. Are they very subtle or significant?


----------



## smurdy

 Graywolf II pics 


You can't really tell the difference too much. The GWII image seems to pop more. The texture is more uniform and there is no line across the top third like there is with the old one. The screen actually seems a little lighter gray, but thats really hard to tell for sure.


Also, another thing thats hard to tell for sure, but the sparkles seem smaller. It could just be wishful thinking.


I popped in the Narnia DVD and the snow seemed less 'dirty'. The whites do seem whiter, everything just seems deeper. But of course, not by much. It's really hard to tell when they are so close to each other.


I will try to get some pics of white tonight. Maybe some of that Narnia snow.


Oh and after further review, it seems like the exact same mechanism as the graywolf 1.


-Smurdy


----------



## Itsdon

Great photos, thanks. The GW2 does seem to be a tad brighter than the GW1. Still not a good solution for me with my Ceiling mounted Sharp PJ.


----------



## smurdy

Oh yeah, my panny AE900 is ceiling mounted about 6.5 feet up. The camera was 10 feet away from the screen and 42 inches high.


----------



## DS4

Weird question...but does the GW2 smell as bad as the GW1 out of the box?


----------



## smurdy

I actually think it was worse....


----------



## lax01

I've had 3 of them...the smell is gone within 24 hours


----------



## MetalAlien

I am happy for anyone who liked the GW screen but I did not. All the white areas appeared to have glitter on them. I tried to put up with it for a week and just gave up. I returned it.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *smurdy* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes. I just ordered the standard 92 inch screen from costco. I think the retracting mechanism is the exact same, I'll take a closer look later.



Since Panoview has messed up in the past and you got the Graywolf II after ordering the regular Graywolf, I decided to take a chance and ordered a 106" diagonal one earlier in the week from Buy.com (this was before they listed the Graywolf II on their site) because I wanted that size and costco.com didn't have it. I was hoping to get the new one, but when it arrived the box and the screen were marked as the old one. I sent it back today without taking it out of the box.


--Darin


----------



## MUCHO

I ordered the 92" Greywolf from Costco hoping to get the Greywolf II.


Nothing to lose except the time to return which is no problem since I go there once a week










I'll let ya know.


----------



## SKoprowski

Anyone know if Costco carries the screen in their store?


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since Panoview has messed up in the past and you got the Graywolf II after ordering the regular Graywolf, I decided to take a chance and ordered a 106" diagonal one earlier in the week from Buy.com (this was before they listed the Graywolf II on their site) because I wanted that size and costco.com didn't have it.



Just as an FYI, I get stuff from the same distributor that Buy.com uses and they're not even showing an ETA on the 106" or 120" GWII. The 92" one shows a due date of 4-24.


----------



## iamfranki

Thus far, I am pleased with my 92" GWII run by a panne AE900.


Some very minor sparkles in bright areas.


I also forgot to mention two big dents right in front which I don't care as it's covered by a soffit.


Roll up mechanism is "OK" once in a while it takes a few tungs to get it moving up.


In somewhat bright light exposure I still get a watchable but washed out pic.


Per viewing area's as I move from the center to seat ~1 ft outside the left screen area, the brightness remains much higher than I expected and I would not mind sitting there if I want to put my guest in the primary seats.


Frank I


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iamfranki* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thus far, I am pleased with my 92" GWII run by a panne AE900.
> 
> 
> Some very minor sparkles in bright areas.



How do you like the "whites"? That's been my main issue with the GWI in that they looked dirty. From smurdy's comments, it sounds like the GWII is better in that respect. Also, with the GWI, the black coating on the border tends to flake off after time. How's it look on the GWII? Hopefully, all of this is improved justifying the higher price.


----------



## stef2

Hi. I wanted to share my impressions about the GWII I just received from costco.ca. It shipped as a package with my new H78DC3.


Yesterday, I compared it with screen samples I have from Stewart (ST130 and Firehawk) and Carada Brilliant White.


The GWII impressed me a lot. The blacks it renders are almost the same as the ones I see on the Firehawk, but the GWII angle of vision is a LOT wider. When I move to the side of the screen, at one point the FH shows almost no image at all while the GWII still shows a very watchable picture. The GWII is probably just a bit less bright than the FH, but the difference is subtle, and sometimes I found the GWII to look brighter, depending on the image projected. One thing is sure, the whites don't look dirty at all on the GWII, certainly not dirtier than on the FH.


One thing that bothered me a little with the GWII are the sparkles. There are also some sparkles on the Firehawk, but they are more evident on the GWII. But I could only see the difference in bright scenes. Dark scenes didn't exhibit any difference.


Compared to the Carada Brilliant White, The blacks look a LOT darker on the GWII, while the CBW seems only slightly brighter. I would even say that the whites looked cleaner on the GWII versus the CBW. The Studiotek 130 looked a bit brighter than the CBW while exhibiting the same black level and a bit more accurate colors, but the whites weren't that much better.


So far, I appreciate the Graywolf II a lot. This screen came bundled with my projector. Unfortunately, I will not use it for very long. The screen I will order (later) will probably be a Graywolf II 106inches diagonal with a fixed frame. I wonder if anyone knows where and when it will be available?


The Graywolf II is an OUTSTANDING screen for the prices. To me it is VERY COMPARABLE to the Firehawk. The Firehawk might look a bit better generally speaking, but certainly the difference isn't worth thousands of dollars...the GWII is a steal!


----------



## brm

Further update on







Graywolf retraction problems: Like virtually everyone here, I had a lot of trouble retracting the screen at first. After a couple of months of light use, it got better, as previously reported. Now, about 6 months later, and used only a couple of times a week (less than 200 hours on the projector bought at the same time as the screen), it retracts perfectly, with no stops or hitches. It does click and clank, but for the money, it's great.


----------



## MikeSRC

Thanks for your comparisons Stef. I should be getting a GWII from Costco tomorrow (if that's what they shipped me), so we'll see how it compares to the GWI.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for your comparisons Stef. I should be getting a GWII from Costco tomorrow (if that's what they shipped me), so we'll see how it compares to the GWI.



Please report! The more independent evaluations the better. (And thanks to those of you who have already reported.)


----------



## DeathEvil

I don't know if you guys saw this yet, but Optoma posted estimated MSRP's and models they will release soon.

http://www.optomausa.com/PressReleas...sp?Press_id=27 


enjoy


----------



## guitarman

Wow Graywolf 2, I'll have to try one. Is there less texture on the GW2 vs GW1?


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm hoping Tom (Guitarman) will comment... he would be able to tell us how much the GWII material differs from the original GW screens.



Thanks for waking me up. I've been out of touch re GW2. I'll see if I can get one next week.


----------



## SKoprowski

If anyone wants to get rid of their GW I when they upgrade to a GW II- let me know







I'm from NE OH.


Scott


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If anyone wants to get rid of their GW I when they upgrade to a GW II- let me know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm from NE OH.



If you let people know what size you are looking for (if you have a preference) that might help.


--Darin


----------



## SKoprowski

92"


----------



## BlackHawk77

I have a 106 in the chicagoland area I am willing to part with


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DeathEvil* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't know if you guys saw this yet, but Optoma posted estimated MSRP's and models they will release soon.
> 
> http://www.optomausa.com/PressReleas...sp?Press_id=27
> 
> 
> enjoy



Allmost double the price for the fixed screen compared to the roll down.

That makes me wonder if they will sell "screen material only", since I'd rather build my own frame (or use my old one).

If the 120" roll down is MSRP 499 and the frame version is 899, then i guess only the material for a 120" should land on about 299-399 depending on if you do the border masking yourself or not.


But the big question is IF thy will deliver material only from some shop?


Best regards

Boogieman


----------



## stef2

I am disappointed to read that the fixed frame screen is double the price of the pull down screen for the same size







. Wow, 400US$ for a frame... (in canadian dollars, that's more like 500$...). This price becomes quite comparable to the Carada screens. I was satisfied with my pull down 92 inches GWII screen and was planning on buying an 106 inches fixed frame GWII, but at almost three times the price of my actual screen, which came bundled with my H78DC3, I might consider a Carada BW screen instead. They have a well known build quality and an outstanding customer service...


----------



## MikeSRC

Got my GWII yesterday. I'm going to try and mount it temporarily so that I can pull the GWI down over the top half of the GWII (like I did earlier in this thread with the GWI and a matte white screen). I try and get some pictures up of the two.


Regarding pricing, it will be interesting to see if the current pricing holds since the 92" pull down is currently available at the old price.


----------



## homeagain

Excellent. Looking forward to the pics.

Thanks, Rob.


----------



## megalopav

I ordered this (GWII??) from costco friday evening. I'm in LA county, wonder where they are shipping from?


anyway, this will be the second screen I'll be using with my 4805. I demod one of them 76" matte white screens that initially came with the projector. I ended up returning the projector at that time. But I was tempted to purchase it again, but have been using a BOC without masking, with many wrinkles as I don't have a frame. just hanging off the wall for a year now







anyway, only put about 212hours on the projector in nearly a year!! My viewing experience should change dramatically as the wrinkles will greatly reduce, moreover will have masking!


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered this (GWII??) from costco friday evening. I'm in LA county, wonder where they are shipping from?



They ship direct from Optoma (in NoCal), so you should probably get it Wednesday.


So far, I like the GWII. It's a darker gray than the GWI, so whites are not as bright, but blacks are much deeper. It has a greater viewing angle than the GWI and the surface is more uniform, not as mottled as the GWI.


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They ship direct from Optoma (in NoCal), so you should probably get it Wednesday.
> 
> 
> So far, I like the GWII. It's a darker gray than the GWI, so whites are not as bright, but blacks are much deeper. It has a greater viewing angle than the GWI and the surface is more uniform, not as mottled as the GWI.



MikeSRC:


Is the GWII retro-reflective like the GWI? Do you notice any difference in the image brightness when the projector is table mounted vs ceiling mounted?


----------



## megalopav

thanks Mike. will have someone at home keep an eye out for the mailman on wed/thursday










The dark scenes really suffer on the BOC. I'm hoping to change that with this projector, and by adding some dark drapes


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They ship direct from Optoma (in NoCal), so you should probably get it Wednesday.
> 
> 
> So far, I like the GWII. It's a darker gray than the GWI, so whites are not as bright, but blacks are much deeper. It has a greater viewing angle than the GWI and the surface is more uniform, not as mottled as the GWI.



This presumably means that the gain of the GW II is less than the 1.8 of the I, right? Any idea what it is?


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This presumably means that the gain of the GW II is less than the 1.8 of the I, right? Any idea what it is?



No, it's the same 1.8 as the GWI.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No, it's the same 1.8 as the GWI.



Mike, is this from a measurement you or someone else has made? The specs quoted on the Optoma seem to very much out of date. And with the Draper M2500 there was a pronounced drop in gain with their recent 'reformulation' of that screen surface. So I'm a little suspicious.


----------



## MikeSRC

It's not measured, it's just from what's stated on the box. That's a good idea though. I'll measure the lumen output from both and compare them to my 1.0 gain matte white screen.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MikeSRC:
> 
> 
> Is the GWII retro-reflective like the GWI? Do you notice any difference in the image brightness when the projector is table mounted vs ceiling mounted?



Yes, it's still retro-reflective, but it may work better than the GWI with a ceiling mount. I haven't had much of a chance to check it out completely yet.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's not measured, it's just from what's stated on the box. That's a good idea though. I'll measure the lumen output from both and compare them to my 1.0 gain matte white screen.



Mike, that would be great--thanks much!


----------



## MUCHO

Forgot to mention - Greywolf II from Costco


----------



## tubaprde

Anyone know of a place where i can buy a frame for my 106" greywolf pulldown? I've looked all over the net, nobody seems to have a big enough frame.


Also, has anyone tried to fix mount a greywolf? How did you buy/make your frame, and how is the screen holding up? Is it ok to staple the greywolf screen material? (I'LL DO ANYTHING TO GET RID OF THE WAVES!!)


Thanks!


----------



## megalopav

I don't see the Optoma screen listed anywhere on costco's website. My order status says "In Process" still.


I wonder if they are just updating from GWI to GWII.


----------



## AlienArchbishop

Hey Tub,


Im planning on making my own frame and stapling a GW II. I dont think there is any problem you just probably have to make sure you stretch it corretly.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see the Optoma screen listed anywhere on costco's website. My order status says "In Process" still.
> 
> 
> I wonder if they are just updating from GWI to GWII.



I think they finally realized that they were offering the GWII at the GWI price (the GWII should be double the price). Your order should be in under the wire.


----------



## MikeSRC

Attached is a picture of the GWI pulled down half way over the GWII. You can see the difference in grey, but it's hard to tell the smoother surface of the GWII.

GWI and GWII


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't see the Optoma screen listed anywhere on costco's website. My order status says "In Process" still.
> 
> 
> I wonder if they are just updating from GWI to GWII.



Costco constantly pulls things from their website with them reappearing days or weeks later. I don't know if it has to do with their supply or something else. I saw my denon receiver on the site about 4 different times in a 6 month span. I wouldn't read anything into it...


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Attached is a picture of the GWI pulled down half way over the GWII. You can see the difference in grey, but it's hard to tell the smoother surface of the GWII.



Is the GWII really that much darker, or is the picture not representative of what it looks like in real life?


----------



## gprro1

Buy.com may have the 92. Doesn't say graywolf in trhe desciption, but it's a 1.8 gain gray by optoma. ?? Don't know, free shipping though.


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, it's still retro-reflective, but it may work better than the GWI with a ceiling mount. I haven't had much of a chance to check it out completely yet.



MikeSRC:


Does the GWII have the same ability to reject reflective ambient light from ceiling and walls as GWI?


----------



## sgbdeals

Buy(dot)com has 2 different GW 92" screens for sale. Both say that they are delivered in 1-2 weeks.


Sorry I can't post URL's yet or I would... Just search for: Optoma 92"


I'm wondering what they would ship out if I were to order the $162 one? Can they even ship the GWI anymore?


----------



## MikeSRC

Yes, the GWII really is that much more grey. The picture is taken in daylight without a flash. The GWII seems to have the same ambient light rejection as the GWI.


Regarding places selling it, the GWII has that designation in the model number. Only the 92" one is available at this time. For example, the old 106" GW screen model number is DS-9106P. The new one is DS-GWII9106P.


Like I said previously, I work with the same distributor that supplies Buy.com and they don't even have the 92" GWII at this time (next week supposedly), but the price of the GWIIs are *twice* that of the GWIs. They do have the old 106" GWIs though.


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AlienArchbishop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Tub,
> 
> 
> Im planning on making my own frame and stapling a GW II. I dont think there is any problem you just probably have to make sure you stretch it corretly.



Ok cool. Let us know how it goes? How do you plan on making the frame? Have you thought about velcro? Ikea sells a 88" diagnol metal frame with painted canvas, I've bought that and plan to use the frame with my GW. Its a frame that doesnt require staples, instead it snaps the material/screen into place... the downside is that its only 88"diag (16:9) ---really small compared to the 106 GW--i'd have to cut it down quite a bit...so i'm not sure if i'm going to go through with it, may return it to ikea. Do you know of a place that sells these types of frames but in larger sizes?


Thanks guys.


----------



## megalopav

looks like buy.com increased their price on GWI.


for the build quality, a GWII isn't worth an additional $100. people are complaining about wrinkles. also, I've never really seen the GWI in action before. but I was ORIGINALLY expecting the GWI to be as dark as the GWII (as per mike's pic). having seen the pic, the GWI doesn't look that grey afterall


----------



## sgbdeals

What was buy com's original price on the 92". I think I recall that they had free shipping (which is now gone).


Thanks!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> looks like buy com increased their price on GWI.
> 
> 
> for the build quality, a GWII isn't worth an additional $100. people are complaining about wrinkles. also, I've never really seen the GWI in action before. but I was ORIGINALLY expecting the GWI to be as dark as the GWII (as per mike's pic). having seen the pic, the GWI doesn't look that grey afterall


----------



## megalopav

sgbdeals, I sent you a PM with the info. not sure if I can discuss the price here.


----------



## MUCHO

After using the Greywolf II for a night there seems to be very minor improvements, specifically in contrast due to less light spill. (Not sure if I'm using light spill correctly but it seems to reflect less light off of the screen which has the net effect of better contrast)


Also - although I could be imagining it - it appears to do slightly better with ambient light.


Beyond that I could tell nothing.


I am currently listing my GWI on craigslist but if I am going to take too big a hit financially I'll return the GWII to Costco.


----------



## sgbdeals

Thanks megalopav! I got it.


I took a chance and ordered the GWI from buy(dot)com. I'm hoping that they send me the GWII when it comes in stock!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> sgbdeals, I sent you a PM with the info. not sure if I can discuss the price here.


----------



## megalopav

BUY will most likely send you the GWI. Don't think they'll send you the new one. If you want the GWII, I would wait if I were you


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BUY will most likely send you the GWI. Don't think they'll send you the new one. If you want the GWII, I would wait if I were you



I don't think they'll send him anything and probably just cancel the order. The 92" GWIs are no longer available and as I mentioned earlier, their distributor shows that the GWIIs won't be available until 4-24.


----------



## sgbdeals

I'll update you guys as to what buy(dot)com does with my 92" GWI order... I have to say that I'm a bit sceptical myself...


We'll see!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MikeSRC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't think they'll send him anything and probably just cancel the order. The 92" GWIs are no longer available and as I mentioned earlier, their distributor shows that the GWIIs won't be available until 4-24.


----------



## kiwishred




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After using the Greywolf II for a night there seems to be very minor improvements ...Beyond that I could tell nothing....
> 
> 
> I am currently listing my GWI on craigslist but if I am going to take too big a hit financially I'll return the GWII to Costco.



MUCHO - Could you notice the "dirty sky" effect on the GW1 ? If so, do you see any change on the GWII.


Thanks,

Brent


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiwishred* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MUCHO - Could you notice the "dirty sky" effect on the GW1 ? If so, do you see any change on the GWII.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brent



Yes - and I still see it on the GWII. I thought that was more to do with my 480P projector and my viewing distance than the screen itself but if its the screen then so be it.


I don't know if there is a difference between the two screens in this area if you have a reference scene in a movie you want me to check out I may have the time tonight.


----------



## kiwishred

MUCHO - No particular scene but thanks for the offer. If you have a DLP projector the the "dirt" is likely to be the screen but if it is LCD then all bets are off as to what is causing it.


Brent


----------



## sethk

I have a couple of questions:

At ~17 feet from a 106" Graywolf, would I be able to see the 'dirt' / pattern? At what distance does the pattern become invisible?

Also does the Graywolf do a better or worse job of ambient light rejection (long narrow room, off-white wall / ceilings) than a Da-Lite high power?

Thanks!


----------



## SKoprowski




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiwishred* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> MUCHO - No particular scene but thanks for the offer. If you have a DLP projector the the "dirt" is likely to be the screen but if it is LCD then all bets are off as to what is causing it.
> 
> 
> Brent



Lets not start with the LCD stereotypes now


----------



## Honu

Seth here are my thoughts

the graywolf was way to dirty for me ? I am waiting to see how the GWII looks to my own eyes or else I am getting a firehawk

I think the dirty look is there no matter what distance you are at ? the whites just never get white and the grainy pattern is much like looking at a grainy picture so its there also no matter how you look at it

almost like it softens the image a touch like a grainy photo

so while you might not see it you will sense the pic is not as sharp


light rejection is good very good I think since I have light walls the darks were very good with the screen


my personal feeling is the HP is a fun screen but I would never want one as my main screen as the blacks are not as good as they could be now in a perfect theater it might be nice but in a non dedicated HT room I think the screen would have to be a fun 2nd screen to have


I have thought of getting a model b for not to much just for cartoons and stuff for our little one

and just like some will love the HP or the GW I think like anything you really need to get one in your place to see how you like it









you can get larger samples of the HP and other dalite screen samples by writing in after you get the small samples write back with asking if you can get a large sample of the HP


----------



## sethk

Honu,

Thanks for the input. If you wouldn't recommend a HP for a main screen (not dark enough with the blacks) and the Graywolf is too grainy, what would you recommend for a main screen (something with ambient light rejection)?


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honu,
> 
> Thanks for the input. If you wouldn't recommend a HP for a main screen (not dark enough with the blacks) and the Graywolf is too grainy, what would you recommend for a main screen (something with ambient light rejection)?



Don't assume the GW is too grainy until you've seen it with your own eyes. I'm not sure why you're looking at the GW but the picture it creates is fantastic and the dirty grainy look is only there is you're focused on looking for it. VERY minor.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honu,
> 
> Thanks for the input. If you wouldn't recommend a HP for a main screen (not dark enough with the blacks) and the Graywolf is too grainy, what would you recommend for a main screen (something with ambient light rejection)?



And don't assume a HP is not a good main screen due to the black level. I had the Grey Wolf and replaced it with a HiPower which is a much better screen IMO. I was hesitant to try the HP because of everything I read here about the black levels but enough folks who have the HP wrote to say "trust me, the blacks are decent, really" prompted me to try it and I'm so glad I did. The build quality far exceeds that of the GW and the picture it put's out is extremely sharp and vibrant. Sure the blacks are't BLACK (hardly any screen will give you that) but they aren't exactly grey either.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my personal feeling is the HP is a fun screen but I would never want one as my main screen as the blacks are not as good as they could be now in a perfect theater it might be nice but in a non dedicated HT room I think the screen would have to be a fun 2nd screen to have



If you aren't talking about having other lights on, then with the HP you can generally dim the projector down with a neutral density filter, or in the best cases, with an iris that improves the on/off contrast ratio. People often complain about a bright screen matched with an average light output projector, but 2x6 equals 12 just like 1x12 or 3x4. In other words, it is the pairing that matters and a brighter screen with a dimmer projector can give the same ft-lamberts as a brighter projector with a dimmer screen.


It is true that it won't reject reflections off the walls as well as the Graywolf, but better than a Matte White screen and without the texture of the original Graywolf. Also, if you have the room then going with a bigger screen is another way to dim everything down.


I just got an 80" wide Graywolf II the other day and just from looking at it next to an original I think the texture might be a little better. But I need to shoot a projector on both. I've had it hanging outside and then in the garage to keep the paint smell out of my theater. Also, it looks like it is a fair amount darker than the original to me, but I'll have to measure to see how much darker.


--Darin


----------



## Honu

want to say Ditto Mucho







I think everyone has to see screens with there own eyes and what they like as its all so personal


Itsdon

quick thoughts and again everything is personal so not disagreeing with you just staying why but my reasons for saying not the HP is he has light colored walls the HP is not a good choice I think since I have light walls and I tried it I found the blacks were not good !! some like over bright not quite correct colors which I think personally is what the HP gives ! I am a photographer for a living and quite used to colors and want them as correct as I can

again just my opinion







but want to say why I think that as I found it helps to know why people say what they do

also I agree the HP is a better quality screen as far as uniform color etc.. and build quality goes









and agree the darks are not gray but they are not as dark as they could be when one has white walls

and that is why I think if one has a controlled theater room the screen might be a alt choice for some but with white walls I found it was to washed out looking and also the color was to fake









again not disagreeing with you just saying why I think what I do







so please read with a smile


----------



## Honu

Darin looking forward to your thoughts on the new GWII compared


If it is not a lot better than the GWI I think I am going to end up buying a Firehawk which is out of my budget this year


----------



## megalopav

Costco shipped me a GWI. The screen is really dark. I can't imagine GWII looking darker? The build quality is pretty crappy. The handle/lever is loose, and it actually came off even before I could hang up the screen.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *megalopav* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Costco shipped me a GWI. The screen is really dark. I can't imagine GWII looking darker? The build quality is pretty crappy. The handle/lever is loose, and it actually came off even before I could hang up the screen.



Wow - that stinks! Sounds like you're the only one who got the GWI


Good news is you can return it no problem


----------



## MikeSRC

I think that the GWII gives you less of the "dirty" look that the GWI did with light colors, but there's still a little of it there. If you look at my photo of the two, you can see a little of the surface difference, as well as the obviously darker gray.



> Quote:
> Costco shipped me a GWI.



Sorry to hear that. I'm surprised that Optoma still had a GWI to ship to you.


----------



## megalopav




> Quote:
> Wow - that stinks!



YEAH!! Literally!!










well, I might end up keeping the GWI. I'll have to test it out further with different source material. but first impressions of projected images were good! from a table mounted pj. It's a dramatic improvement over the BOC. I played parts of Bad News Bears last night. I will try out some DVD's (with dark scenes) I felt, looked like ****, on the BOC.


caveats, the stench! as everyone mentioned, the build quality is horrible. It's hard to pull the screen down (because it keeps going back up). Once I got it down, I kept it down. The Whites ARE a little dirty, but I'll have to see the degree at which they bother me.


Optoma shipped directly from their wharehouse. The screen is dated back to Dec 05.


I am dissapointed that I got a series I rather than II, so buyer beware (esp if you already have a GWI).


----------



## fysa

If I were going to ceiling mount my projector with this screen, could I angle the screen back a bit to counteract? Maybe mount the top a few inches from the back wall and have some way to secure the bottom against the wall while pulled down?


How would the height at which I mount the screen affect this problem?


----------



## AlienArchbishop

Hey Tuba,


This frame sounds interesting, can you send me a link to it?

cheers!

AA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok cool. Let us know how it goes? How do you plan on making the frame? Have you thought about velcro? Ikea sells a 88" diagnol metal frame with painted canvas, I've bought that and plan to use the frame with my GW. Its a frame that doesnt require staples, instead it snaps the material/screen into place... the downside is that its only 88"diag (16:9) ---really small compared to the 106 GW--i'd have to cut it down quite a bit...so i'm not sure if i'm going to go through with it, may return it to ikea. Do you know of a place that sells these types of frames but in larger sizes?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys.


----------



## kiwishred




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fysa* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I were going to ceiling mount my projector with this screen, could I angle the screen back a bit to counteract? Maybe mount the top a few inches from the back wall and have some way to secure the bottom against the wall while pulled down?
> 
> 
> How would the height at which I mount the screen affect this problem?



Havn't read the whole thread so may not be understanding the context of your proposal properly. However the rule with retro-reflective screens like graywolf is that the angle of the screen doesn't actually matter. It is the angle between you and the projector that counts. So angling the screen should make no difference (at least within reason, this argument probably doesn't work when you are close to parallel to the screen).


Brent


----------



## jhasbeen

Thanks everyone for the info on the graywolf. I think I have the gwI and just installed it in my theater last week. I am a complete newbie, but I was impressed with the screens performance. I have it reflecting a panny ae900 and all I can say is the folks watching were impressed. Projector is ceiling mount. I agree with others that the build quaility is not stellar, but for the money I think it is a great deal. I don't retract my screen back up. The stench of the screen took a day to "air" out. Nice little high though. Not sure how many brain cells lost? Colors appeared great, even whites. Must admit though I do not have a comparison. Thanks again everybody for the input here. I have been lurking for months.


----------



## esaleris

I'm thinking of putting the graywolf in front of my existing TV set. That means that it'll be extended and retracted on a pretty regular basis.


How is the action of the rolling mechanism? Is it pretty good? Reliable enough to be pulled down and put up every day?


----------



## sethk

I know the GWII in 106" is not generally available yet, but the preliminary prices on the 106 GWII (manual pulldown) look to be about twice as much as the street prices on the GW (again, this is not for sure, just the pre-order pricing.)


I wonder if Optoma will sell both at the same time since there is such a large price gap.


I don't even plan to use the pull down - I would mount it tensioned on my existing 106" frame, but from comments on GWII owners the extra money is not going into a higher quality pull down mechanism anyways.


----------



## sgbdeals

I told you guys that I would update you when I got...


Well, I got it today, and Buy(dot)com shipped the GWII!







I'm happy!


They still have the 92" on their site for $161.00. It shows that it is the GWI but I received the GWII.


I'll post the link to the screen in the next post (since this is my 5th post!).


Thanks all!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgbdeals* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll update you guys as to what buy(dot)com does with my 92" GWI order... I have to say that I'm a bit sceptical myself...
> 
> 
> We'll see!


----------



## sgbdeals

Here is the link:

92" Screen on buy.com 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgbdeals* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I told you guys that I would update you when I got...
> 
> 
> Well, I got it today, and Buy(dot)com shipped the GWII!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm happy!
> 
> 
> They still have the 92" on their site for $161.00. It shows that it is the GWI but I received the GWII.
> 
> 
> I'll post the link to the screen in the next post (since this is my 5th post!).
> 
> 
> Thanks all!


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know the GWII in 106" is not generally available yet, but the preliminary prices on the 106 GWII (manual pulldown) look to be about twice as much as the street prices on the GW (again, this is not for sure, just the pre-order pricing.)



The other sizes are double the price of the GWI as well.



> Quote:
> I wonder if Optoma will sell both at the same time since there is such a large price gap.



Not likely. The GWI is being shown as discontinued by distributors.



> Quote:
> I don't even plan to use the pull down - I would mount it tensioned on my existing 106" frame, but from comments on GWII owners the extra money is not going into a higher quality pull down mechanism anyways.



That's true. There is no difference in the mechanical parts. Only the screen surface is different.


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok cool. Let us know how it goes? How do you plan on making the frame? Have you thought about velcro? Ikea sells a 88" diagnol metal frame with painted canvas, I've bought that and plan to use the frame with my GW. Its a frame that doesnt require staples, instead it snaps the material/screen into place... the downside is that its only 88"diag (16:9) ---really small compared to the 106 GW--i'd have to cut it down quite a bit...so i'm not sure if i'm going to go through with it, may return it to ikea. Do you know of a place that sells these types of frames but in larger sizes?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys.



Hi all,

I took my GW1 106" in to a framing company yesterday to get it framed. They're going to stretch it like a canvas onto a kiln dried wood frame (5 vertical and 4 diagnal support bars) and add a 3inch black velvet border!!! sweeet! no more waves for me.... charge: 195$ i think it'll be worth it...


i'll take some picks once its done... cheers!


----------



## AlienArchbishop

They are sold out!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgbdeals* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> 92" Screen on buy.com


----------



## sgbdeals

You can still place your order. That's what I did. I bought one even though it said sold out. It was shipped out 2 days later!


Good luck!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AlienArchbishop* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They are sold out!


----------



## gman123

I bought the 106" screen, this is my first projector screen, can you guys tell me how to mount this on the wall, should i get some special brackets? I also bought the panny AE900 projector can you guys tell me if it best to mount it on the ceiling or leave it on the table top


Thanks


----------



## megalopav




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sgbdeals* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can still place your order. That's what I did. I bought one even though it said sold out. It was shipped out 2 days later!
> 
> 
> Good luck!



congrats sgbdeals. what are your first impressions on the screen? what projector are you using? table/ceiling mounted?


anyway, my real question is, was your screen shipped directly from Optoma or Buy.com?


The whites("sparklies"?) are somewhat bothersome on the GWI, but it's easier to live with this than the bad blacks on the BOC. So I might end up returning it at costco (optoma shipped me GWI, incase you forgot)


thank you!


----------



## millerwill

Has anyone done a careful gain measurement for the GWII? Is it 1.8, as advertised, or much less?


----------



## BJM

Darin told me he measured the gain of his GrayWolf l at 1.4 and he has the new GrayWolf ll and thinks the gain is the same or even less than the original although he hasn't measured it.


Brent


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BJM* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Darin told me he measured the gain of his GrayWolf l at 1.4 and he has the new GrayWolf ll and thinks the gain is the same or even less than the original although he hasn't measured it.Brent



Hmmm. So quite a bit less than the advertised 1.8.


----------



## millerwill

Has anyone gotten a fixed-frame GWII yet?


----------



## CooLSpoT

Thanks for the info


----------



## nimous




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kiwishred* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Havn't read the whole thread so may not be understanding the context of your proposal properly. However the rule with retro-reflective screens like graywolf is that the angle of the screen doesn't actually matter. It is the angle between you and the projector that counts. So angling the screen should make no difference (at least within reason, this argument probably doesn't work when you are close to parallel to the screen).
> 
> 
> Brent



brent


I think what fysa meant was:


since the projector is ceiling mounted, fysa wanted to tilt his screen on an angle (top mount forward, and bottom pulldown hooked to something a few inches backward) in an attempt to get a better reflection off of the screen and onto the seated viewer..


I'm thinking of doing the same thing but am concerned with the screen curving a bit..



fysa


May I recommend, if it's possible, try positioning the screen lower so you get the optimal reflection by using screen position (vs what you are trying by angle)




I'm a couple of months away from finishing my basement (i've got my panny ae900u sitting in a box, serving as my carrot). I'll be trying this myself fairly soon..


----------



## Itsdon

Tilting or angling the screen will do nothing but mess up the keystone of the picture, it will not get you a brighter picture from the GW1, 2 or any other retro reflective screen, nor will lowering the screen for that matter. The very nature of retro reflective screens means that the light source (projector) has the best seat in the house, always. No matter what you do to the screen, it will always reflect light back to the source. To get maximum benefit from that type of screen you need to have your eyes as close to the the height of the projector as possible.


----------



## lax01

Anybody who originally had the GWI and upgrade to the GWII, was it worth it? Would you suggest everyone else do the same because it is THAT much better?


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lax01* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anybody who originally had the GWI and upgrade to the GWII, was it worth it? Would you suggest everyone else do the same because it is THAT much better?



Honestly I can't tell much of a difference and I am considering returning mine to Costco since I can't find a buyer for my GWI.


----------



## smurdy

They are really close. I like the Graywolf II better, but I don't know if it would be worth it to upgrade.


-Smurdy


----------



## Mr_You

I just back ordered a Graywolf II 106". This is my first screen and projector: Infocus SP5000 (got on special). If I like it then I might look at a portable ~96". Judging by the comments this seems to be a good bang for buck.


----------



## darinp2

I did some measurements of the HP, GW1 and GW2 and it looks like the gains of the GW1 and GW2 are about like this as a percentage of the HP:


GW1: 50%

GW2: 39%


The HP is rated at 2.8, but I think it is closer to 3.2 in the brightest spot. Using the 3.2, that would put the gains for the GW1 and GW2 at the brightest spots at:


GW1: 1.6

GW2: 1.25


As far as the textures, I think the GW2 is a little better, but I wouldn't rate it as a large improvement. I still see the texture to the screen even though I think it has a little less of the splattered mixture of gray and white look up close compared to the GW1, but the lower gain might be a bigger factor in less people noticing the texture.


I was hoping that they would change the color skew of the screen more towards red for help with projectors with UHP lamps (most of them), but it looks like the color balance is about the same between the GW1 and GW2. According to my measurements that is a little more blue push than the HP, which already has some blue push compared to the StudioTek 130 (pretty much the reference screen material). I got the following for the percent from the blue portion with Colorfacts and certain settings from a projector with the screens:


ST130: 94

HP: 98

GW1: 102

GW2: 102


I took these a few days ago and I'm not positive, but I think I took them with the Sony VW100 (Ruby) that has a Xenon lamp and different color map as far as wavelengths (spectral graph) compared to most UHP lamp projectors. I doubt it makes much difference in the color skews, but it might. I believe that when I first noticed the color skew when the GW1 came out last year it was with a projector with a UHP lamp.


--Darin


----------



## gprro1

I just bought a 106" GW1 from another forum member. It's a cool screen, but after a little time with it, the texture is very noticable in any brighter colors and whites. Nothing new or unexpected. I'm going to run dual screen setup anyway.


Something I am wondering about, it the lower maybe 2/5 of the screen appears darker with using a blank blue or white screen. Like it has less gain. not really noticable from left or right of the screen though. Almost not noticable with movies, unless a bright sky shot pans from top to bottom. Or on a complete sky shot.


Any ideas?


----------



## tubaprde




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I took my GW1 106" in to a framing company yesterday to get it framed. They're going to stretch it like a canvas onto a kiln dried wood frame (5 vertical and 4 diagnal support bars) and add a 3inch black velvet border!!! sweeet! no more waves for me.... charge: 195$ i think it'll be worth it...
> 
> 
> i'll take some picks once its done... cheers!



Its done and i brought it home...the picture looks great. NO MORE WAVES!!! These guys really stretched the heck out of it, they made it so tight that if you tap it, it sounds like a drum! Furthermore, the guy who stretched it said that the material is very very strong and should stay streched for a very long time... decades... that gives you an idea of how strong the screen materials are.


Ill take some pics soon and try to post them to the this thread.


P.S. its also very light. i'd say no more than 15 lbs. Later!


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I did some measurements of the HP, GW1 and GW2 ... put the gains for the GW1 and GW2 at the brightest spots at:
> 
> 
> GW1: 1.6
> 
> GW2: 1.25
> 
> 
> As far as the textures, I think the GW2 is a little better, but I wouldn't rate it as a large improvement. I still see the texture to the screen --Darin



Too bad that things don't look better for this screen; the gain of the GWI is about its advertised value (1.8), but the GWII has fallen to about that of the Firehawk (1.25). Does this mean that the GWII is essentially a poor (because of its texture) version of a FH? Of course a FH is quite a bit pricier.


I suppose the GWII should be better than the HP with ambient light (because it's gray), but since the HP is so much brighter, is this really true? And the HP has the wonderful character of no screen texture being visible.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does this mean that the GWII is essentially a poor (because of its texture) version of a FH?



Since the GWII is retro-reflective and the FH angular-reflective, I would say that they share traights, but also have some important differences (besides the texture). The FH has some texture also, but I think it is less than the GWII (although I haven't put them together).


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I suppose the GWII should be better than the HP with ambient light (because it's gray), but since the HP is so much brighter, is this really true?



The GWII will be darker with the projector set the same, but yes, I think it will be better at rejecting ambient light in general. Definitely as far as reflections off the walls and things. For lights that are on or light coming into the room, it is a little different as each can have the same ratio of: (gain for viewer for projected light) / (gain for viewer of lights on). In other words, if sitting in the peak gain position for each with ambient light where a viewer is getting half that gain, then for the HP it would just be 3.2/1.6 (or a 2:1 ratio) and for the GWII it would be 1.25/.625 (or a 2:1 ratio). *Although I used more significant digits than we really have. The reason the gray in the GWII means more help with reflections from the images and then off the walls is because that light gets reduced every time it hits the screen (so twice for light from projector->screen->wall->screen and three times for projector->screen->wall->screen->wall->screen) where the light from the projector only gets reduced by the gray once and the HP doesn't have the gray for killing the overall light with each reflection (I think it reflects something like 97 or 98% of the light that hits it, where the GWII looks like it reflects something like 38% of the light that hits it).


--Darin


----------



## AlienArchbishop

I can't wait to see you picks. I've been thinking of doing the same for a while now. Is the final viewing are also 106" or a little smaller?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tubaprde* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its done and i brought it home...the picture looks great. NO MORE WAVES!!! These guys really stretched the heck out of it, they made it so tight that if you tap it, it sounds like a drum! Furthermore, the guy who stretched it said that the material is very very strong and should stay streched for a very long time... decades... that gives you an idea of how strong the screen materials are.
> 
> 
> Ill take some pics soon and try to post them to the this thread.
> 
> 
> P.S. its also very light. i'd say no more than 15 lbs. Later!


----------



## netslayer

I have a new Optoma HD72 projector and trying to get a screen. For weeks I've been looking to get a Optoma 106" GW2 pull down or fixed frame.


Costco has told me they have a 106 GW? pull down screen coming up for around $151. It's been like this for weeks and until Optoma logs in and states that they have it available Costco[dot]com will not show it. So I could wait longer but i'm getting frustrated.


1. Where can I get the GW2 106" pull down for a reasonable price? 

2. Costco also sells a 100" fixed frame Da-lite da-mat perma mount screen with 1.0 gain, 60* viewing angle. How does this compare to the GW2?

Prodid 11071503


----------



## millerwill

I had the good fortune today to see a Dalite HighPower and a GrayWolf side-by-side, and I definitely liked the HP better; the whites on the GW looked dingy in comparison. (Is this just a result of the gain of the HP being ~2x that of the GW?) A 106" pulldown HP will be a little over twice what is noted above for a GW, but this amounts to only ~$200 and I would consider it worth it; but everybody has to decide this on their own, of course.


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had the good fortune today to see a Dalite HighPower and a GrayWolf side-by-side, and I definitely liked the HP better; the whites on the GW looked dingy in comparison. (Is this just a result of the gain of the HP being ~2x that of the GW?) A 106" pulldown HP will be a little over twice what is noted above for a GW, but this amounts to only ~$200 and I would consider it worth it; but everybody has to decide this on their own, of course.




Check out my comparison of the two screens:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...wer+comparison 


I thought the same thing as you until I lived with them for a while. It really depends what you are looking for and how much ambient light you anticipate. When you view 2 screens side by side, you eye always gravitates towards the brighter one...


----------



## millerwill

steinre1: Thanks for reminding me of your thread. I read this some while ago and learned very much from it. And you're certainly right that my impressions may have been just the reaction to the brighter image from the HP. (This was at Guitarman's house--thanks again, Tom, for the nice visit to check out these two screens and the new Optoma 7100--a VERY nice projector!)


I did play around a bit at Tom's house by opening the curtains to let some light in, but this didn't really change my preference. But you have certainly lived with the screens longer than I have, so I definitely would give your impressions more weight than mine. It's very hard to get a feeling about my own room as to how much ambient light I really have to deal with. The walls and ceiling are light-colored, so there's that amount; if that is all there is, is that enough for the GW's gray screen to be valuable? I don't think so, but then I'm really not that experienced in these matters. During the day there is no direct sunlight, but of couse some light does enter indirectly.


If the projector is bright enough--e.g., something like the new Mits wd2000u with its 3000 lumens--then I suppose one could go with a gray screen and have brightness, too. ('Have cake and eat it too'.) But these 'super bright' pj's tend not to have such good CR, which would be good to have when watching those dark movies at night with all the lights out.


To conclude my rambling, I guess I'm waiting for (1) a 1080p pj, since I want to sit close (~ 12.5 ft from a 133" screen), (2) a very bright pj, to behave like a giant tv during the daytime, for those Sunday NFL games, and (3) a CR > 5000:1 so that movies will look good at night with the lights all out. And at a price that I am willing to pay!


----------



## basement

I'm using the HP in a dual purpose room for darkened viewing as well as dimly lit for sports or TV situations. My wall and ceiling colours are typical family room with neutral shades on the walls tending a little bit towards darker with white ceilings. I went back and forth for a while trying to decide between the GW and the HP. With no chance of comparing these materials in advance I decided on the HP in the end. Initially, coming from a matte white, I found the HP tremendous, allowing me to use it the way I intended. However, and I suppose there's always a however , in darkened viewing the blacks can be slightly, but noticeably elevated on darker scenes. Going back to observations noted in darinp's post can something be done in my environment to reduce light reflections from walls making it back to the screen? Specifically, if I just repaint or darken the back wall with a material to soak up light coming from the screen, will this allow the HP to work better, short of re-doing all the paint colours in the room? This would be an acceptable compromise aesthetically.


----------



## gprro1

Anyone have a screen where the bottom 2 feet or so look like they have less gain/darker. Only noticable on brighter solid color shots. Sky etc. I have a 106 gw1.


any thoughts.


----------



## Donny Bahama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gprro1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone have a screen where the bottom 2 feet or so look like they have less gain/darker.



Sounds like a retro-reflectivity issue. Is your projector ceiling mounted?


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> steinre1: Thanks for reminding me of your thread. I read this some while ago and learned very much from it. And you're certainly right that my impressions may have been just the reaction to the brighter image from the HP. (This was at Guitarman's house--thanks again, Tom, for the nice visit to check out these two screens and the new Optoma 7100--a VERY nice projector!)
> 
> 
> I did play around a bit at Tom's house by opening the curtains to let some light in, but this didn't really change my preference. But you have certainly lived with the screens longer than I have, so I definitely would give your impressions more weight than mine. It's very hard to get a feeling about my own room as to how much ambient light I really have to deal with. The walls and ceiling are light-colored, so there's that amount; if that is all there is, is that enough for the GW's gray screen to be valuable? I don't think so, but then I'm really not that experienced in these matters. During the day there is no direct sunlight, but of couse some light does enter indirectly.
> 
> 
> If the projector is bright enough--e.g., something like the new Mits wd2000u with its 3000 lumens--then I suppose one could go with a gray screen and have brightness, too. ('Have cake and eat it too'.) But these 'super bright' pj's tend not to have such good CR, which would be good to have when watching those dark movies at night with all the lights out.
> 
> 
> To conclude my rambling, I guess I'm waiting for (1) a 1080p pj, since I want to sit close (~ 12.5 ft from a 133" screen), (2) a very bright pj, to behave like a giant tv during the daytime, for those Sunday NFL games, and (3) a CR > 5000:1 so that movies will look good at night with the lights all out. And at a price that I am willing to pay!



Bill:


Since you seem to be an expert on screens would you recommend the Graywolf II for a projector like the Samsung SP-H710AE? Or would Da-Lite's High Power be a better choice? My room will be a multi-use room and it has light beige walls and a white ceiling. I know both the Graywolf and High Power are retro reflective screens so some of the ambient light from the walls and ceiling will be mitigated by these screens.


Rich


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bill:
> 
> 
> Since you seem to be an expert on screens would you recommend the Graywolf II for a projector like the Samsung SP-H710AE? Or would Da-Lite's High Power be a better choice? My room will be a multi-use room and it has light beige walls and a white ceiling. I know both the Graywolf and High Power are retro reflective screens so some of the ambient light from the walls and ceiling will be mitigated by these screens.



I'm not Bill, but I would say that if you are going to mount the 710AE close to you (so you get good gain), then it mostly comes down to whether the texture of the Graywolf II would bother you and whether it would be bright enough for you when the bulb has aged some. The plus side of the Graywolf II is how well it rejects light bouncing off your light colored walls, but the High Power doesn't have the texture issue and has the higher gain that could come in handy when the bulb is dimmer.


--Darin


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not Bill, but I would say that if you are going to mount the 710AE close to you (so you get good gain), then it mostly comes down to whether the texture of the Graywolf II would bother you and whether it would be bright enough for you when the bulb has aged some. The plus side of the Graywolf II is how well it rejects light bouncing off your light colored walls, but the High Power doesn't have the texture issue and has the higher gain that could come in handy when the bulb is dimmer.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Hi Darin:


I'll be seated on my sofa and I plan to mount my projector just over and behind my head on a shelf. Would that work? I understand the texture of the GWII is finer and smoother than GWI so it would seem the sparklies so many are complaining about won't be a big factor. Am I wrong? I guess I would have to order each of these screens and judge for myself.


Rich


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bill: Since you seem to be an expert on screens ... Rich



Boy, am I glad that Darin jumped in quickly to reply to your question, since I'm about as far from an 'expert' as possible! He, Tryg, et al, are the experts. I'm musing over many of the same issues you raise.


I, too, would like to know whether the higher brightness of the HP, or the better ambient light-rejection of the GW, will result in a better pic (provided the texture in the GW is not too bad). I did have the chance to see these two screens side-by-side recently (it was the older, GW I), and my reaction was that I liked the HP better. The whites on the GW did look a bit dingy, as many people have reported. Of course, I may have just been temporarily swayed by the brightness of the HP, which seems to be very common; and sometimes, it seems, the dazzle of this brightness wears off with time, and one appreciates the more contrasty pic of a GW (or Firehawk) later on.

Ones does feel like Hamlet in trying to weigh all these considerations!


----------



## gprro1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Donny Bahama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like a retro-reflectivity issue. Is your projector ceiling mounted?



no , it's table mount. The other kind of weird thing is at a angular reflective angle the bottom may be a little brighter? I'm thinking the bottom glass beading may be less or have rubbed off a little. Also when I move off to the side of the screen outside the cone, it's not noticable. Suck's because I was going to try and sell it.


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll be seated on my sofa and I plan to mount my projector just over and behind my head on a shelf. Would that work?



That is just about ideal with either the GWs or the HP.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I understand the texture of the GWII is finer and smoother than GWI so it would seem the sparklies so many are complaining about won't be a big factor. Am I wrong?



There was probably some improvement with the GWII when I hung it with a GWI, but it wasn't that much to my eyes. It is hard to say if that will bother you though as the sheen/speckling with the SilverStar bothers me and doesn't bother some other people.


Unfortunately, I think if you were to put up both a High Power and either one of the GW screens with this setup for a day+ each you would be likely to conclude the same thing as many of us. That what you want is a gray HP (the smoothness of the HP with the gray of the GW). For now we basically have to choose as the ones that are available each have their advantages and some will prefer the advantages of one and some the advantages of the other.


--Darin


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is just about ideal with either the GWs or the HP.
> 
> There was probably some improvement with the GWII when I hung it with a GWI, but it wasn't that much to my eyes. It is hard to say if that will bother you though as the sheen/speckling with the SilverStar bothers me and doesn't bother some other people.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I think if you were to put up both a High Power and either one of the GW screens with this setup for a day+ each you would be likely to conclude the same thing as many of us. That what you want is a gray HP (the smoothness of the HP with the gray of the GW). For now we basically have to choose as the ones that are available each have their advantages and some will prefer the advantages of one and some the advantages of the other.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Tom (Guitarman) was suppose to get a GWII and compare it to the GWI but so far he hasn't posted his report.


Yeah, I think I'll have to make some hard choices and compromises... :-(


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Boy, am I glad that Darin jumped in quickly to reply to your question, since I'm about as far from an 'expert' as possible! He, Tryg, et al, are the experts. I'm musing over many of the same issues you raise.
> 
> 
> I, too, would like to know whether the higher brightness of the HP, or the better ambient light-rejection of the GW, will result in a better pic (provided the texture in the GW is not too bad). I did have the chance to see these two screens side-by-side recently (it was the older, GW I), and my reaction was that I liked the HP better. The whites on the GW did look a bit dingy, as many people have reported. Of course, I may have just been temporarily swayed by the brightness of the HP, which seems to be very common; and sometimes, it seems, the dazzle of this brightness wears off with time, and one appreciates the more contrasty pic of a GW (or Firehawk) later on.
> 
> Ones does feel like Hamlet in trying to weigh all these considerations!




What I found interesting is the perception of shades of black depending upon the background color.


Here:
http://www.colorcube.com/illusions/scindctn.htm 


and here:
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curricul...Contrast.shtml 


and here:
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/Curricul...ntrastII.shtml 


So what should we believe? Our eyes or the manufacturers each of whom claim their screens are better and provide better blacks or contrast than their competitors?


Rich


Rich


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What I found interesting is the perception of shades of black depending upon the background color. Rich



Yes, these are indeed interesting.


This line of thinking seems to advocate the HighPower, i.e., brightness, for then even though the blacks on the HP are not as black as on a gray screen by an absolute measure, compared to the bright picture they APPEAR very black.


----------



## Itsdon

The blacks look great on my HP, and this is from a low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. I had a GW and sent it back. For me, the HP is a far better screen. The smoothness of the picture and the overall quality of materials make this a winner for me.


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The blacks look great on my HP, and this is from a low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. I had a GW and sent it back. For me, the HP is a far better screen. The smoothness of the picture and the overall quality of materials make this a winner for me.



Itsdon:


What projector do you own?


Rich


----------



## AFH

Hey guys. I bought a 106in GW, don't know if it's a GW 1 or GW 2 from Best Buy 20 some days ago. How can I tell if it's a GW 2? I'm using it with a Sharp 2000 that I bought at the same time. I have white walls and a white ceiling with light colored furniture and a brown carpet. It pulls down over a window that has light sheers covering it and the window is 6ft wide. There is also a door next to to the screen that leads to my patio. The door also has a full lenght window. I'm sitting exactly 13ft from the screen and the projector is 14ft from the screen sitting on a stand behing the sofa. I can see the texture of this screen at times if I'm really looking for it when I have the iris on the Sharp set to High Brightness. But the only time I've used that setting is when I had some friends over to watch the game 7 of the Suns v. Lakers series. We watched with all of the blinds open on all of the windows in my apartment. Everyone that I've had over hasn't commented on the texture of the screen. I've noticed that the better I focused the projector, the finer the texture became.


I was surprised at how I couldn't notice the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen when I watched the Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions on a Yammy S2300 dvd player. I watch a couple of minutes of the opening of Bring it On and red seems correct. I watched the opening of Dark City and blacks look black until it the movie shows the guy with pocket watch where they appeared a slight veil, sort of greyish blacks. After that, blacks appeared black.


I've watched some HD of the Young and the Restless that I've recorded on the Directv Tivo through component. Very sharp. I have a 57in Mits CRT I bought last year and the program looks similar on both displays. The Unit from CBS and CSI Miami just blew away Las Vegas when I watched all three on the projector. While looking at the Halo 3 trailer last night on the 360, I did notice that sitting off to side, there is a decrease in brightness but not a huge increase. My friends didn't comment on it, but then again I had the iris open. People also commented how how punchy the whites looked. I'm using the same menu settings that Greg Roger's used when he reviewed the 2000 for Widescreen Review in May of 2005. I haven't used dvi from the Tivo yet, but I'll have it connected to the projector today with a 50ft HDMI to DVI cable that I bought from Monoprice. That way, I can have the Tivo connected to the Mits CRT using component and connected to the projector using DVI.


I'm thinking about buying the Sharp 3000, b/c Sharp says that it has 6500:1 on/off contrast. I wonder how this projector would look on the GW. It may be too dark. DarinP, do you think the 3000 would be too much with the GW?


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Itsdon:
> 
> 
> What projector do you own?
> 
> 
> Rich



It's the Sharp DT-300


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AFH* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys. I bought a 106in GW, don't know if it's a GW 1 or GW 2 from Best Buy 20 some days ago. How can I tell if it's a GW 2? I'm using it with a Sharp 2000 that I bought at the same time.



If it is a Greywolf II it will literally say Greywolf II on the white cover.


Greywolf 1 just says Greywolf.


----------



## MUCHO

I find myself wanting to try out a HP screen now, since now I'm having a hard time just enjoying the picture and I'm focusing in on the texture.


Thanks a lot guys


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, I think if you were to put up both a High Power and either one of the GW screens with this setup for a day+ each you would be likely to conclude the same thing as many of us. That what you want is a gray HP (the smoothness of the HP with the gray of the GW). For now we basically have to choose as the ones that are available each have their advantages and some will prefer the advantages of one and some the advantages of the other.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Darin, But even if one had a 'gray HP' (i.e., the GW without its texture faults), there would still be the question (in my mind) of which would do better with some ambient light (e.g., from side windows with the blinds closed, and light-colored walls/ceiling); I think I remember some comments from you in other places to the effect that there two ways to deal with ambient light: overpowering it with brightness, or toning everything down with a gray screen, and that you preferred the former.


Then, if one went with the present HP to 'over-power' the ambient light, which would be better in the evening with the lights out? Would the HP be too 'thin', i.e., not getting the darks scenes well? Or would this be more dependent on how good the pj is in doing black and CR? (Thanks as always for your very helpful comments and analysis!) Bill


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The blacks look great on my HP, and this is from a low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. I had a GW and sent it back. For me, the HP is a far better screen. The smoothness of the picture and the overall quality of materials make this a winner for me.



Itsdon, which model of HP do you have (i.e., model C pulldown, Permwall fixed-frame, etc.)?


----------



## AFH




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If it is a Greywolf II it will literally say Greywolf II on the white cover.
> 
> 
> Greywolf 1 just says Greywolf.



Thanks. Mine just says Greywolf, but the texture is a non-issue to me b/c I don't focus on it when I'm into what ever is on the screen. Now, if I'm not into what is on the screen, I notice the texture, but it's doesn't bother me.


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Itsdon, which model of HP do you have (i.e., model C pulldown, Permwall fixed-frame, etc.)?



I have the model "B" pulldown 92" with 12" added top border. I got it from Jason here at AVS. He's awesome for giving you accurate info. The price wasn't anything to sneeze at either!


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think I remember some comments from you in other places to the effect that there two ways to deal with ambient light: overpowering it with brightness, or toning everything down with a gray screen, and that you preferred the former.



The first part (high lumens) is really the necessity for dealing with lights on or light coming into the room and falling on the screen. Then the gray is to bring the ft-lamberts down to a more comfortable level for some people and it helps with reflections around the room. In other words, it is high light output from the proejctor that overpowerers the other lighting. The directionality (user getting higher average gain from the projected light than the other light) can help if that light is coming from an off angle, but that isn't really overpowering it.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Then, if one went with the present HP to 'over-power' the ambient light, which would be better in the evening with the lights out? Would the HP be too 'thin', i.e., not getting the darks scenes well? Or would this be more dependent on how good the pj is in doing black and CR? (Thanks as always for your very helpful comments and analysis!) Bill



It does depend on the projector, the room, and personal preferences. In bright mixed scenes blacks can still look black with a high gain screen and high lumen projector because they are relative, but if the absolute blacks from the projector aren't perfect then that combination will raise the visible level of the blacks in blackouts and near blackouts.


--Darin


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The blacks look great on my HP, and this is from a low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. I had a GW and sent it back.



Itsdon: how do you 'send a screen back'? I thought that one did not have a 30-day no fault return period (or something like it) as one does on tv's, dvd players, etc. In fact I've asked at several places if I could buy a HighPower and a Firehawk, and then return the one I didn't want to keep, and was told this was not possible. So do you have a 'special arrangement' with your source, or is this indeed possible? Tx, Bill


----------



## Itsdon

Sorry, bad choice of words on my part. I ended up selling the GW to a fellow (local) AVSer who was following this thread and saw where I mentioned that I'd be keeping the HP and selling the GW. Best Buy has a convenient 30 day return policy on the GrayWolf though.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Best Buy has a convenient 30 day return policy on the GrayWolf though.



Hey, thanks much; this is certainly very useful to know. Sounds like one could then definitely give the GW a try with no risk.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey, thanks much; this is certainly very useful to know. Sounds like one could then definitely give the GW a try with no risk.



Once Costco starts selling the Greywolf again I would use them instead of Bestbuy for two reasons.


A) Lower price

B) Return policy is much longer than 30 days


----------



## lummy

Any word on when the 106" and 120" will be shipping? I already have a 106" GW but wanted to get the larger 120" for my own personal drivein (sans cars).


----------



## jman311

I've had the 92" from Buy.com on order for about 2 weeks now, waiting for their stock to be refilled. Got an email this morning that the product is "no longer available".


----------



## marcellarm

Just thought I would post a quick note to let everyone know that Optoma got there GWII's in this past weekend. I spoke to Doug at Optoma and they have just finished getting them through the warehouse inventory process and are starting to ship out this week! I ordered mine from him so that I would get mine ASAP (although at the rich M.S.R.P.), but it is now on its way to my house. I am not sure of any other dates as far as when your favorite retailer will get theirs, but I am sure it will be very shortly now. Enjoy!


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *marcellarm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just thought I would post a quick note to let everyone know that Optoma got there GWII's in this past weekend. I spoke to Doug at Optoma and they have just finished getting them through the warehouse inventory process and are starting to ship out this week! I ordered mine from him so that I would get mine ASAP (although at the rich M.S.R.P.), but it is now on its way to my house. I am not sure of any other dates as far as when your favorite retailer will get theirs, but I am sure it will be very shortly now. Enjoy!



Let us hear how you like it! (Did you get the pull-down or new fixed-frame?)


----------



## marcellarm

Hi Bill. I ordered the 92" 16:9 manual pull-down. I would have liked the fixed-frame, but space doesn't allow. I had a friend do a CAD drawing of my livingroom to scale, and all we could get to work out was the pull-down. Oh well, still anticipating the GWII! I have been over at my parents watching their GWI 106" and all I can say is, I hope the GWII is as good or better than theirs. I love theirs', so I am anticipating REALLY loving mine! I will post a review ASAP after it arrives.


----------



## drewbie

I currently have a GWI and a matte white optoma screen and comparing them side to side, I definitely like the increased blacks and gain of the GWI. The color depth seems to be better with the GWI as well. The Matte White seems more washed out. However, I prefer the off-axis uniformity of the matte white.

*Does the GW II have better off-axis viewing than the GWI?*


Those of you who have both the GWI and II, can you tell me which you think is the best fit given the following setup:


Viewing distance from Screen = 11 '


Ceiling mounted Sony VPL-HS51a = aprox. 6.5 ' - 7 ' off floor (not permanently mounted yet), directly overhead of viewing position (11 feet from screen).


Walls are currently white, but I'm going to paint them brown.


Ambient light is fairly well controlled.


It would be possible to lower my projector closer to eye level if I moved it further from the screen, thus bringing the sweet spot of the GW screen closer to the viewing position, but this is a less ideal setup, logistically.



For those interested, I have tried three different GWI screens with varying results. I'll post comments on that if anyone would like.


Any comments or advice are much appreciated.


Thanks,


Drew


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drewbie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I currently have a GWI and a matte white optoma screen and comparing them side to side, I definitely like the increased blacks and gain of the GWI. The color depth seems to be better with the GWI as well. The Matte White seems more washed out. However, I prefer the off-axis uniformity of the matte white.
> 
> *Does the GW II have better off-axis viewing than the GWI?*
> 
> 
> Those of you who have both the GWI and II, can you tell me which you think is the best fit given the following setup:
> 
> 
> Viewing distance from Screen = 11 '
> 
> 
> Ceiling mounted Sony VPL-HS51a = aprox. 6.5 ' - 7 ' off floor (not permanently mounted yet), directly overhead of viewing position (11 feet from screen).
> 
> 
> Walls are currently white, but I'm going to paint them brown.
> 
> 
> Ambient light is fairly well controlled.
> 
> 
> It would be possible to lower my projector closer to eye level if I moved it further from the screen, thus bringing the sweet spot of the GW screen closer to the viewing position, but this is a less ideal setup, logistically.
> 
> 
> 
> For those interested, I have tried three different GWI screens with varying results. I'll post comments on that if anyone would like.
> 
> 
> Any comments or advice are much appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Drew




Tom (Guitarman) was supposed to get a GWII and evaluate it. So far no word from him. Hey, Tom, where's your report on the GWII?


Rich


----------



## tones3311

My canadian supplier when asked if they had the GWI or GWII said the 106" GW they have is part number DS-GWII9106PM. He is assuming this is the GWII.....is that correct? Does the GWII look any different so I can get him to confirm it actually is the GWII he has in stock.


He gave me a price of 455.00 Cdn...so Im not sure if it is the GWI or GWII.


Thanks.


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My canadian supplier when asked if they had the GWI or GWII said the 106" GW they have is part number DS-GWII9106PM. He is assuming this is the GWII.....is that correct? Does the GWII look any different so I can get him to confirm it actually is the GWII he has in stock.
> 
> 
> He gave me a price of 455.00 Cdn...so Im not sure if it is the GWI or GWII.
> 
> 
> Thanks.




The "GWII" in the part number "DS-GWII9106PM" is a GWII screen. So it appears Optoma is shipping them now.


----------



## jazzless

I just received a GWII today. I've realized that the colors are really muted and the black and contrast are really not noticably different from a white screen. I put one screen over the other and kept switching screens - and the white one always looked better.


I bought the GW after reading such great reviews here. But really, I can't see the value of a grey screen.


I have a Optoma HD72 which already has great contrast. Perhaps the grey screens are just for older projectors that aren't that contrasty? I'm new at this, but don't understand the grey hype.


So, does anyone know if I can get the same exact screen size, etc of the 106" diagonal (92" wide) from Optoma or another company - but in WHITE? Any recommendations.


Thanks - and sorry if this isn't the appropriate spot to post...


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jazzless* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just received a GWII today. I've realized that the colors are really muted and the black and contrast are really not noticably different from a white screen. I put one screen over the other and kept switching screens - and the white one always looked better.
> 
> 
> I bought the GW after reading such great reviews here. But really, I can't see the value of a grey screen.
> 
> 
> I have a Optoma HD72 which already has great contrast. Perhaps the grey screens are just for older projectors that aren't that contrasty? I'm new at this, but don't understand the grey hype.
> 
> 
> So, does anyone know if I can get the same exact screen size, etc of the 106" diagonal (92" wide) from Optoma or another company - but in WHITE? Any recommendations.
> 
> 
> Thanks - and sorry if this isn't the appropriate spot to post...




Is your HD72 ceiling mounted? If it is then you lose some of the advantages of the GWII. The GWII is a retro-reflective screen which means that the projector should be mounted just above your head or on a table in front of your seating position.


----------



## jazzless




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is your HD72 ceiling mounted? If it is then you lose some of the advantages of the GWII. The GWII is a retro-reflective screen which means that the projector should be mounted just above your head or on a table in front of your seating position.



It will be ceiling mounted. But I tested it out on a table and sat next to the projector. It's still has very dull colors. I'm using this to display photos as well as films. So, once I looked at my photos, it was obvious that the colors were muted by the grey. Too bad.


So, anyone know of a good white screen with the same dimensions - HD 92"x50" or so - 106"diagonal?


Thanks.


----------



## Itsdon

Look into the Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen. It gives some of the benefits of the GrayWolf but isn't retroreflective. The build materials and quality of the screen far surpass the GrayWolf. I currently have a Da-Lite HiPower and love it with my low lumen PJ but it would probably be too bright for your Optoma. Have Da-Lite send you samples of both (might as well get the Video Spectra sample while you're at it) and check them out in your AV room.


Don't forget to check with Jason at AVS before purchasing, pricing and service he offers is incredible.


----------



## SKoprowski

Waves are a big problem with the HCMW pulldown screens though since it isn't retroreflective.


----------



## jazzless




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Look into the Da-Lite High Contrast Matte White screen. It gives some of the benefits of the GrayWolf but isn't retroreflective. The build materials and quality of the screen far surpass the GrayWolf. I currently have a Da-Lite HiPower and love it with my low lumen PJ but it would probably be too bright for your Optoma. Have Da-Lite send you samples of both (might as well get the Video Spectra sample while you're at it) and check them out in your AV room.
> 
> 
> Don't forget to check with Jason at AVS before purchasing, pricing and service he offers is incredible.



How do you recommend I get samples from Da-Lite? Who should I contact?


And who is Jason at AVS and how do I contact him (sorry, I'm new around here). Thanks.


A


----------



## tones3311

Would the Da-Lite Model B be the same thing as the Da-Lite High Contrast White?


I am trying to find the Da-Lite High-COntrast White on this site.

http://www.projectorsplus.ca/Da-Lite...20Screens.html


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jazzless* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How do you recommend I get samples from Da-Lite? Who should I contact?
> 
> 
> And who is Jason at AVS and how do I contact him (sorry, I'm new around here). Thanks.
> 
> 
> A



Here you go http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=2104 I got my samples from Da-Lite simply by calling them. I'm sure Jason can help you out there also though. Welcome to the forums!


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would the Da-Lite Model B be the same thing as the Da-Lite High Contrast White?
> 
> 
> I am trying to find the Da-Lite High-COntrast White on this site.
> 
> http://www.projectorsplus.ca/Da-Lite...20Screens.html



Yes and no. Hi Contrast Matte White is the screen material. You can have that material in either the Model B or Model C housings. Here is some good educational reading http://www.da-lite.com/products/selecting.php


----------



## tones3311

Which would you recommend for the HD72? Maybe the High Contrast without the Hi-Power?


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jazzless* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a Optoma HD72 which already has great contrast. Perhaps the grey screens are just for older projectors that aren't that contrasty? I'm new at this, but don't understand the grey hype.



The gray is really for the room, not the projector. It helps kill reflections that go to light colored walls (or other things) and come back, thus giving more contrast ratio in mixed images in real rooms.


--Darin


----------



## sethk

Would anyone care to comment on whether the screen texture is visible at 15' back on the orginal GW (or GWII)? How about 17'?


Thanks!


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on whether the screen texture is visible at 15' back on the orginal GW (or GWII)? How about 17'?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Depends - how good are your eyes? For sure at 15' if you're looking for it you can see it. I don't know about 17' but I'm guessing you could still see it.


Bear in mind - you only see it when you're looking for it.


----------



## guitarman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would anyone care to comment on whether the screen texture is visible at 15' back on the orginal GW (or GWII)? How about 17'?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I asked Optoma this week about the GWII. The company worked to smooth the surface paint. So it should be less of an issue for some, though the GW's surface didn't bother me and seems to have gotten smoother with age. Maybe all the roll-ups helped.


They were planning on letting look at the GWII but I'd have to pick it up and drive it back. Shipping is high on the long box so it's not worth it for me. Enough owners and previous owners should have a good enough idea on how smooth the new Graywolf is.


Deifinetly the Graywolf light rejection makes for more contrast over the High Power I have. The High Power shows white video more white. Colors aren't muted like someone said, muted sounds like less vibrancy. Not so, colors are acutally richer on the GW vs the HP. White is Grayer, which you get use to in different video. Daytime scenes are still lit up and clouds look white.

jmo


----------



## richard_rd

If you compare a white screen sample and a grey sceen sample side by side, at the same time, you will always prefer the white screen. This is because the whites will look way better on the white screen (seem dull and grungy on the grey screen). Even though the blacks look blacker on grey screen, then on the white screen, your brain will always prefer the better whites on the white screen, verses the better blacks on the grey screen ,when the two screens are tested side by side, or one on top of the other.


What you don't realize is when you are viewing the grey screen by itself, without a white screen sample next to it, your brain automatically calibrates the whitest white image on the grey screen during the movie as pure white. So when you view the grey screen by itself, and there is no white screen sample around to bias you, your brain will be telling you those are purest whitest fluffy clouds you ever saw ( even though they are on a grey screen)!!!!


Another trick if you have lite colored walls is to make the front wall were the screen is mounted dark. If the wife won't let you paint the front wall a flat black or dark flat burgandy then condisder drapes or fabrick that can be opened and closed to surround your screen in a dark color while viewing movies. I finally conviced my wife to let be paint only the front wall a dark flat burgandy and it is amazing how much pop that adds to the image. It looks like the image on the screen is 3 dimensional and floating in front of the wall (Pop - poping off the wall).


----------



## Slink22

best/cheapest place to buy the gw2?

The best I've found online is tiger direct (92" pulldown, $200 shipped). Is it cheaper in any store?

What did costco have it for? Should I just wait for it to come back to costco


----------



## tones3311

What are the differences between the GWI and GWII. Looking at the specs for both they seem identical.


I wish Costco.ca would get the 106 inch to include with their PJ combos.


----------



## nate358

hey I was wondering where you can get a sample of these screens. I just called Optoma and they said they don't have them. GWI or GWII.


----------



## gprro1

What's the concensus on the gw2's. For the most part I hate the gw1, I've got a 106" gw1. Dirty. I may have to sell it or cut it up and make a 50-60" fixed frame for daytime and video games with lights on.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gprro1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the concensus on the gw2's. For the most part I hate the gw1, I've got a 106" gw1. Dirty. I may have to sell it or cut it up and make a 50-60" fixed frame for daytime and video games with lights on.



I'm not the right person to answer this since I tend to just watch the show but in my opinion the main difference between the two is its harder to see the sparkles with the GWII and _perhaps_ the GWII does a better job of rejecting ambient light. The dirty whites are still dirty and personally I see no difference between the two in that area.


When I say sparkles I mean with the GWI if I was looking (and only then) I could see light rays shining off the little sparkles imbedded in the screen but with the GWII I can't see them at all.


----------



## gprro1

the sparlies don'y bother me much, it's the dirty bright light colors, not just the whites. Tried watching Empire the other night. All the snow scenes were really distracting. I think my screen may be a little uneven too, so maybe this is making it worse. I wonder if a light sanding with super fine sand paper might help?


----------



## franssu

Is there a place where I can see/buy this screen in Montreal ?


In my future apprtment I will need the screen to be on a window, so it has to be moveable. So a pull-down one seems the way to go. So this scrren (or a Da-Lite High Contast Cinema Vision scrren in a model B or C pull-down version, but I don't think it exists) looks to me like a very good choice.


My PJ is a PT-AE500, it has no dynamic iris like its big brothers so I need the extra black of a gray screen.


----------



## Texas steve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *guitarman* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes but you still get extra gain punch ceiling mounted. I'll run a test to see what the drop off is.
> 
> 
> I'd expect this screen to become a hot item. When Dalite came out with their gray screen tons bought it, mainly for the better blacks. But it had a problem showing waves with video for sure. Plus this new screen has the advantage of higher gain.



Guitarman, Ive seen many of your posts and because of yours about a year ago I too purchased a H79. I currently use the 106" Da-Lite "high contrast Matte white" motorized ceiling screen (1.1 gain), 33.11 fL. I am considering switching to the da-lite "video spectra 1.5" 45.15fl. Any comments on this selection?


I have to go to da-lite so it will fit in my existing housing.


Thanks


----------



## steinre1

Costco is now selling the GW II 92" as a package deal with the sharp dt-500. The package explicitly states GW II. As of tonight you can not just purchase the screen on their site.


----------



## Honu

noticed today on costco site you can get the GWII 92 inch size on its own









now if they just had the 106 I would give it a shot


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> noticed today on costco site you can get the GWII 92 inch size on its own
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now if they just had the 106 I would give it a shot




What screen are you using, Hono?


----------



## Honu

FremontRich

I am just using a 92 matte white screen

I have the samsung H710 and had the GWI and returned it as it was to grainy but would like one for mid day viewing if the new one is cleaner ???? since I dont have a perfect light controlled room so far it might be worth trying to view with my own eyes and see as a 2nd screen or else the Dalite HP screen as a 2nd


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> FremontRich
> 
> I am just using a 92 matte white screen
> 
> I have the samsung H710 and had the GWI and returned it as it was to grainy but would like one for mid day viewing if the new one is cleaner ???? since I dont have a perfect light controlled room so far it might be worth trying to view with my own eyes and see as a 2nd screen or else the Dalite HP screen as a 2nd




Ever give any thought to a DaLite High Power? It is also a retro-reflective screen and it should give you lots of "pop" when viewing.


----------



## MUCHO

I'm most likely going to purchase the HD6800 at Costco which is currently bundled with a 106" GWII


I don't think the 106 will work for a variety of reasons in my setup but I sure don't mind trying it


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm most likely going to purchase the HD6800 at Costco which is currently bundled with a 106" GWII
> 
> 
> I don't think the 106 will work for a variety of reasons in my setup but I sure don't mind trying it




I checked the Optoma website and they don't list the HD6800. It sure looks a lot like the HD72 though!


I wonder if Costco made a typo with the model number of the projector.

http://www.optomausa.com/projector_home.asp


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wonder if Costco made a typo with the model number of the projector.



Not sure if it is a typo or maybe some exclusive model number, but the Costco site does have HD72 down in the description:


> Quote:
> The Optoma HD6800 projector is a true 720p, high-performance home theater projector. The HD6800 features new technologies to deliver brighter images and truer colors to the projected picture. The Optoma *HD72* DLP home theater projector provides great color saturation and subtle color details for the best image quality.



--Darin


----------



## Movie Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tones3311* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What are the differences between the GWI and GWII. Looking at the specs for both they seem identical.
> 
> 
> I wish Costco.ca would get the 106 inch to include with their PJ combos.



When I purchased my Optoma Movietime DV10 a little over 2 months ago I went out and bought a 92' Graywolf screen because I didn't have the patience to wait 6-8 weeks for my free 92' graywolf screen to arrive. Well, It just so happens I just received my free 92' screen and it happens to be a Graywolf II. I will post my opinions on the Graywolf II as soon as I have it mounted and have used it.


----------



## sethk

There is another thread in the


----------



## drewbie

I currently have two gwI screens hanging and the screen texture and color are vastly different. One is significantly darker gray than the other. The darker one has less visible texture as well, and seems to be more consistently gray, where as the lighter one is a bit more "splotchy". The lighter one seems to have more gain.


I just thought people may benefit from knowing there is such a variance in the same model screen. I'm wondering if the darker one is the GWII screen material in a GWI housing.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drewbie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just thought people may benefit from knowing there is such a variance in the same model screen. I'm wondering if the darker one is the GWII screen material in a GWI housing.



Sounds like it to me.


----------



## shippo

Had anyone tried ceiling mount PJ with the 92" GrayWolf Screen? Would it affect the bright level?


I'm sure this been discussed somewhere before but if anyone can provide a real experience, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Itsdon

It has been discussed in great length here but basically it will work fine for most high lumen projectors. Low lumen machines (like my Sharp DT300) do not output enough and the drop off is so severe that the combo makes for a very undesirable picture (IMO). Some folks have tried it and have been pleased but the dark muddy picture it gave me made me sell my GW in favor of the Da-Lite Hi Power. It's a much better match for a low lumen ceiling mounted PJ. Sure the blacks aren't "black" but they are pretty darn good. The colors and whites are startlingly vibrant with this screen.


----------



## drewbie

shippo,


i have a 92" with a Sony HS-51 projector ceiling mounted. The Sony is not a particularly bright projector, but the image quality is still quite good with this set-up. Everyone who has seen it has been blown away.


This is a retro-reflective screen, so ideally, the projector would be shelf or table mounted. When I stand up, the image is definitely brighter than when I am in the seated position.


Still, because of the price, I am seriously considering keeping this screen. The image is very watchable and has nice rich color. However, I have good light control, and watch mostly in the dark. As far as ambient light, it performs better with my halogen overhead light on than during the day with ambient sunlight.


Keep in mind there seems to be some quality control variance in these screens, so I would suggest buying from a retailer where you can exchange it.


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *drewbie* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> shippo,
> 
> 
> i have a 92" with a Sony HS-51 projector ceiling mounted. The Sony is not a particularly bright projector, but the image quality is still quite good with this set-up. Everyone who has seen it has been blown away.
> 
> 
> This is a retro-reflective screen, so ideally, the projector would be shelf or table mounted. When I stand up, the image is definitely brighter than when I am in the seated position.
> 
> 
> Still, because of the price, I am seriously considering keeping this screen. The image is very watchable and has nice rich color. However, I have good light control, and watch mostly in the dark. As far as ambient light, it performs better with my halogen overhead light on than during the day with ambient sunlight.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind there seems to be some quality control variance in these screens, so I would suggest buying from a retailer where you can exchange it.



I also have a HS51 ceiling mounted ut is currently using a matte white screen in a white room.


MY QUESTION.

From the floor calculated in meters preferably since i live in Sweden 

At what height is the projector

At what height is the center of your screen

At what height is your eyes?


I am considering changing to a GW2 if i can find one in the right size and if the colours, whites and blacks are good and if it has a decent ambient light blocking.


REgards

Boogieman


----------



## millerwill

I see that the GWII is now on the Optoma website: MSRP for a 120" diag fixed frame is $900. I would be willing to do this if the screen texture problems have been corrected. And is the gain on the GWII really 1.8? This is the figure given for the original GWI, but I thought that it had been reduced for the GWII in order to deal with the texture issue. Does anybody really know?


----------



## millerwill

I see that the GWII is now on the Optoma website: MSRP for a 120" diag fixed frame is $900 (not much different from a Dalite HP, and a bit less than half that of a Stewart FH). I might be willing to do this if the screen texture problems have been corrected. And is the gain on the GWII really 1.8? This is the figure given for the original GWI, but I thought that it had been reduced for the GWII in order to deal with the texture issue. Does anybody really know?


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I see that the GWII is now on the Optoma website: MSRP for a 120" diag fixed frame is $900 (not much different from a Dalite HP, and a bit less than half that of a Stewart FH). I might be willing to do this if the screen texture problems have been corrected. And is the gain on the GWII really 1.8? This is the figure given for the original GWI, but I thought that it had been reduced for the GWII in order to deal with the texture issue. Does anybody really know?



I really know that the texture is alive and well with the GWII. Thats about all I know ... it is particularly annoying to me when watching NBA HDTV on a light colored court ... and I'm not one to really sit there and look for the faults in the picture ... sometimes its just horribly obvious.


----------



## MikeSRC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I might be willing to do this if the screen texture problems have been corrected. And is the gain on the GWII really 1.8? This is the figure given for the original GWI, but I thought that it had been reduced for the GWII in order to deal with the texture issue. Does anybody really know?



The texture is only slightly better than the GWI. I have a picture of the two side-by-side, but it's hard to tell. Darin answered the gain question back in this post . That's pretty much what I've experienced as well.


----------



## millerwill

Mike, Thanks for reminding me of that. So the GWII's gain of 1.25 is the same as that of the Firehawk. The two are different, though, in the the GW is retro-reflective, and is best with the pj mounted 'low', while the FH is angular-reflective and is thus best with a ceiling mount. And the FH has much better build quality and a much better screen surface.


----------



## Mr2Spyder

I just purchased a Graywolf II 92 inch screen. I also have an 80' Da-lite insta-theater screen that is white. I have to say I prefer the graywolf screen. It does a good job of making the blacks blacker on both my panny AE900 and infocus 4805. The only drawback to the screen is that bright white areas can look a little dirty from the sparkly material however it is a small tradeoff for the deeper blacks. For the money this screen is a steal. One thing I did notice is that when I retract the screen it does not completely roll up into the case. About 1 inch still hangs loose. Is this normal? Does anyone elses screen not roll completely up?


----------



## tones3311

The roll-up issue is the same with my GWI 92 inch....I can get it to go right up if I pull on it a few times but its a pain. I just settle to have the 1 inch left hanging.


----------



## sresener

I know this question has probably been asked but i have a 92" graywolf II on order. My pe7700 is mounted on a shelf behind me, The projector has about a 11ft throw and is about 16inches above center of the screen. Now If i raised the screen a bit and I can lower the shelf a bit too and doing that I could get the projector about 10 inches above center. Well my question is will this setup reduce the performance of the screen.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sresener* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know this question has probably been asked but i have a 92" graywolf II on order. My pe7700 is mounted on a shelf behind me, The projector has about a 11ft throw and is about 16inches above center of the screen. Now If i raised the screen a bit and I can lower the shelf a bit too and doing that I could get the projector about 10 inches above center. Well my question is will this setup reduce the performance of the screen.



No but depending on where you're sitting you may be outside the "light cone" or whatever its called. All that means is your gain will not be as high as it would if your head was close to the projector. (Means less bright picture)


----------



## sresener

my eyes are about 28 inches below the projector


----------



## dissonant

I notice that on the sides of my GW 106" screen that when an image scrolls I get distortions. It's unoticeable normally. Mainly just when a scene scrolls. Sort of like a warbly image until the camera stops panning. Is this due to the GF being a roll down and not perfectly flat and having some waves? Any fixes?


----------



## steinre1

Is this due to the GF being a roll down and not perfectly flat and having some waves?


YES


Any fixes?


Short answer - NO. Long answer - I have tried 3 different screens and removing the bar and adding the bar and adding weights and adding support behind the screen, etc to no avail. There are some people who have rigged up some concoctions that may have helped. I suggest 2 things to really solve your problem - get a fixed screen or just learn to live with it as I have. It also helps not to have anything with a scroll running on the bottom like cnn - you might get seasick.


----------



## dissonant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is this due to the GF being a roll down and not perfectly flat and having some waves?
> 
> 
> YES
> 
> 
> Any fixes?
> 
> 
> Short answer - NO. Long answer - I have tried 3 different screens and removing the bar and adding the bar and adding weights and adding support behind the screen, etc to no avail. There are some people who have rigged up some concoctions that may have helped. I suggest 2 things to really solve your problem - get a fixed screen or just learn to live with it as I have. It also helps not to have anything with a scroll running on the bottom like cnn - you might get seasick.



I'm just glad it's not my projector! Eventually I'll get a fixed screen but for now I can live with the ripples considering the price of the GW. However I'm getting an xbox 360 to hook up to it soon so I'm a little worried with how noticeable it will be while gaming.


----------



## Matthieu

Hello there people. I'm new here and I'm glad to join in.


I wanted to buy the HD7100 with the new 120'' greywolf-screen.

I live in the Netherlands and they say that their is no ThemeScene version of the Optoma HD7100 coming to Europe.(ThemeScene is an upgrade version for the PAL-System we use here including a Faroudja De-interlacer. We have that with the HD72i)

I refuse to believe that, so I will wait for two months.

My room is not that big and because of the short trowlens of the HD7100, I can project a 120'' screen.

Because of the retro-reflection of the Greywolf I cannot ceilingmount the beamer, so I have to place the beamer next to my bench.

That is possible because thay decided to put a lensshift on the HD7100 afterall

See the latest review on projectorcentral.

(I cannot place a link, because I'm new here and I have to post five times here before they let me, because of SPAM. but you can make a link of it yourself)


Does anyone know what happens if I project on a Greywolf screen from the right side of about a third of the screenwide, because of the retroreflection?

Do I get a darker left image on the screen?


----------



## sresener

my 92 inch greywolf II came and i have really mixed feeling about this screen. I love how it is in ambient light but I hate how the texture effects the screen and I also dont like how narrow the idea viewing angle is. does anyone know of any decent high contrast screens that dont have the same texture but offer better ambient light than a white screen. I hate to say my cheap basic 92" luma kills this screen in when the room is dark.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sresener* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> does anyone know of any decent high contrast screens that dont have the same texture but offer better ambient light than a white screen.



The Steward Firehawk certainly fits this description, but it is quite a bit pricier.


----------



## firsttimegrayw

I just got my Graywolf 92" and I finished mounting it. Pulling down the screen was no problem. But now no matter what I do, I can't raise it. It is in the fully extended position but refuses to go up. For one brIef moment, it went up slightly and then stopped. I lowered it again in order to raise it more, but it didn't accept it and now it just won't roll up. I really can't t have this screen down all the time. There was a bit of plastic saran wrap kind of thing near the top but that came out. Was that part of the roller that should have stayed in?


HEEELLPPPP!!!!!!


----------



## gprro1

Oh well it's been fun, but



Moving, I'm selling my GW1 106 . I bought it from a member 2 months ago. It has some minor waves, and the texture is typical GW. a little uneven and dirty on whites. Case is OK, a little ding or two, none bad.

Any interest in LA area, let me know. PM.


----------



## firsttimegrayw

re HELP! Can't raise screen!


I tried and tried and nothing would make it go back up. I ended up taking the entire thing down carefully, rested the heavy part on the ground upside down and was able to have the screen retract itself inside, phew. BUT when I put the whole unit back up again and pulled down the screen the same situation occured where it wouldn't retract. Does anybody have ANY advice or had a similar situation happen to them?


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *firsttimegrayw* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> re HELP! Can't raise screen!
> 
> 
> I tried and tried and nothing would make it go back up. I ended up taking the entire thing down carefully, rested the heavy part on the ground upside down and was able to have the screen retract itself inside, phew. BUT when I put the whole unit back up again and pulled down the screen the same situation occured where it wouldn't retract. Does anybody have ANY advice or had a similar situation happen to them?



Seems like you received a bad one. Send it back for one that works!


----------



## iggymama

Has anyone ordered the GrayWolf II 106" screen from Staples.com and received the wrong screen from Optoma? I got the GrayWolf I screen TWICE! This is getting rediculous!


I'm about ready to try the HP screen. I hate the sparklies on the GWI! It also looks a bit washed out and loses detail in blacks (wall mounted PJ at 4' high). Maybe I need to calibrate my 900 PJ to get a better image. Has anyone tried calibrating the Panny 900 with the GWII to improve the image (assuming the sparklies go away, which is questionable)?


I just wish I could get the HP screen from a store I can return it to without paying for shipping and restocking fees, like I did with the GW (BB and Staples). I just wish Optoma would get their **** together and ship the new screen instead of trying to pawn off the old ones on unsuspecting customers!


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Has anyone ordered the GrayWolf II 106" screen from Staples.com and received the wrong screen from Optoma? I got the GrayWolf I screen TWICE! This is getting rediculous!
> 
> 
> I'm about ready to try the HP screen. I hate the sparklies on the GWI! It also looks a bit washed out and loses detail in blacks (wall mounted PJ at 4' high). Maybe I need to calibrate my 900 PJ to get a better image. Has anyone tried calibrating the Panny 900 with the GWII to improve the image (assuming the sparklies go away, which is questionable)?
> 
> 
> I just wish I could get the HP screen from a store I can return it to without paying for shipping and restocking fees, like I did with the GW (BB and Staples). I just wish Optoma would get their **** together and ship the new screen instead of trying to pawn off the old ones on unsuspecting customers!



Let me hear if you DO find a place where you can buy the HP and have 'right of return'!


----------



## iggymama

I looked at the build date on the three GWI screen I will end up returning because of the TEXTURE and SPARKLIES being unacceptable. I hate SEEING the screen! I hear the HP is supposed to disappear! Anyways, the GWI I bought at Best Buy was build date 12/12/05. The two GWI screen I bought at Staples.com for $80 more, which were supposed to be GWII screens, were built on 12/13/05 and 12/14/05! All within 2 days of each other. One was in a GWI box, but the sticker said "DS-9106P" which is Matte White, and had a dent in the casing.


I sent Optoma a somewhat nasty email, but haven't heard yet. I am going to call them and make a big stink. Pathetic that they would try to pawn off an old screen, probably figuring I wouldn't notice! I should report them to the BBB!


----------



## NickB

Yes, they just repackage the returned screens and sell them as new.


----------



## Honu

Costco now has the 92, 106 & 120 inch GWII in stock


----------



## iggymama

They do indeed have the 106" GWII for $350 plus shipping. Does anyone know how much they charge for shipping? I got mine from Staples for $400 including free shipping with a $30 coupon, so it's probably not cheaper, and you have to join or be a member. Many places charge $50 for shipping. Now if only they had the HP screen!


----------



## vishal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They do indeed have the 106" GWII for $350 plus shipping. Does anyone know how much they charge for shipping? I got mine from Staples for $400 including free shipping with a $30 coupon, so it's probably not cheaper, and you have to join or be a member. Many places charge $50 for shipping. Now if only they had the HP screen!



I added it to my cart and here's the final price (I am in Northern CA):


Summary

Subtotal: $349.99

Shipping & Handling: $18.84

Tax: $30.42

Order Total: $399.25


----------



## Honu

I ordered a 106 to our AZ place and it was $25.51


but if it develops probs in 2 years try to bring it back to staples







Costco you can not to take advantage of them but costco return policy has been discussed quite a bit here









its well worth it if you have one near you


OH I WISH they had the HP screen

I have a matte white for night time but want the GW for ambient I just hope its not as bad as the I version ?? I tried one of those and it was not so hot in my opinion









I will also be getting the HP screen in a electric pull down for some shows like CSI Miami its WOW !!!!


----------



## sethk

Anyone using a GW II on a fixed frame with no waves? Any comments on what difference this made to PQ, did it affect sparklies? Texture?


Also what are peoples opinion on whether the GWII is worth 2x the cost of the GW I?


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sethk* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Anyone using a GW II on a fixed frame with no waves? Any comments on what difference this made to PQ, did it affect sparklies? Texture?
> 
> 
> Also what are peoples opinion on whether the GWII is worth 2x the cost of the GW I?



In my opinion there is NO WAY the GWII is worth 2x the cost of the GWI.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sresener* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> my 92 inch greywolf II came and i have really mixed feeling about this screen. I love how it is in ambient light but I hate how the texture effects the screen and I also dont like how narrow the idea viewing angle is. does anyone know of any decent high contrast screens that dont have the same texture but offer better ambient light than a white screen. I hate to say my cheap basic 92" luma kills this screen in when the room is dark.



It's maybe 20% improved in the sparklies and texture, but certainly not worth 2x the price. I am probably going to get the DaLite High Power screen and a filter to tone it down until the lamp gets dimmer. I'm afraid it will be too bright (or crush the whites) without a filter (mounted in the middle of the back wall), at least for my taste. I hear good things about the HP screen when the PJ is table-height, not ceiling mounted. 2.8 gain and very smooth and bright. You can get 12" samples from Dalite for free. Xlnt shadow details and contrast ratio. It glows really bright like a plasma. It washes out with lighting near the PJ, but not with off-angle lighting like ceiling pot lights.


----------



## Rhy

I hate my 106 inch greywolf, my projector is ceiling mounted and this has a huge dimming effect on picture quality, also the screen gets very dark when the viewer is watching from the side, almost like a rear projection tv. I ended up painting a screen on the wall at a cost of like 40 bucks, and I like the picture on the painted wall 10 x more than the greywolf. eventually I will get a high power screen but for now the painted wall works fine.


----------



## iggymama

Yeah, ceiling mounting on the HP should look a lot better than the GW. Even a matte white screen would look better to most people with ceiling mounting. A grey screen is already dim. Even center of the wall mounting looks pretty dull on the GW and GW2.


----------



## Honu

well my 106 GWII came in from Costco as a dented up repackaged 92 inch !!!!!


its a GWII but it looked repackaged


the pull down bar is bent ! the case is dented in a crease fashion about 3 inches long


there is the typical color band problem at the top from that saran wrap thing they have on the top part of the screen


I will still stick it up tonight just to see how the sparklies look and overall dirty white looks if its any better ?

basically wanted a 2nd screen to watch durring brighter lighting but thiinking the HP will be the better way to go more and more mainly do to Optoma bad packaging etc.. to me Optoma is now a company I might just avoid


----------



## iggymama

Optoma quality control is a joke! Make sure the screen itself says GrayWolf 2 on the casing, not just on the box label. Maybe you got a GW1 like I did. Pretty pathetic that they gave you the smaller size. Is the screen in a 106 inch box?


I am going to get the HP screen as soon as I hear from Jason about the return policy on the HP screen, and price matching thefinalclick.com's prices (who has better prices, including free shipping, but Jason should match the total price). He is rather slow at responding...


----------



## Honu

well it was a GWII but the wrong size







heheheh


but put it up to check it out and see what I thought ?

well its still dirty and you can notice the texture with it

have a 2x2 foot sample of the HP but the one thing when looking at the HP is the noise in some pics really come out badly with it that is the one thing holding me back on that but the colors WOW of course compared

again I think a dual screen setup is the ticket










but the GWII is cleaner than the GWI but without side by side its hard to say ?

how do I know its cleaner ? well my memory and the fact I am very good with images etc.. and can remember parts of things that bugged me and how bad it was with certain parts of movies sparklies are reduced some also


will I try another 106 ? I still might now part of me thinks I should get the 120 cause it will be a newer screen







for sure and then mask in on it a bit myself to make it a 110 which is what I really want for the perfect size


can see that one really coming smashed up







but talked to Costco about the wrong size and they were cool made a note on my order number so hope not to have a hassle


is it a good screen ? maybe I would say its OK and still a nice 2nd screen maybe for times when you want a nice pic but there is some room light and for the money its not a bad deal still


----------



## Dave Mack

Hey guys! Is the viewing angle any wider on the GWII? We have the 92" GW1 and for the most part like it but do notice the kinda severe light dropoff if you go too far out.

Anyone have both now?




What does Optoma themselves say the difference is between the I and the II?

Thanks! d


----------



## iggymama

I have tried two GW1 and one GW2 106" screens with the Panny ae900 mounted in the middle of the back wall. The only difference I see is less texture and fewer sparklies. I still see some sparklies and at 13' I can still see the texture, just less. It still looks dingy in sky scenes. It's probably 20% improved over the GW1. I doubt the viewing cone is much different.


I will probably return the GW screens and get an HP screen and a filter. I figure I can remove the filter as the lamp ages, and double my lamp life!


----------



## Dave Mack

Thanks iggy.


----------



## Zipplemeyer

This Graywolf screen has ruined my life! Of course I'm exaggerating but ever since I hung this screen up and turned on my Panasonic AE900 I have not been happy. Tell me if this is a familiar story for any of you. My room is probably like many of yours. Medium colored walls with a white ceiling, the front projection wall is nicely draped with velvet but I get a bit of light bouncing off the side walls and ceiling. I hang the Graywolf, turn on my Panny and it is instantly the best image I have seen from this pj. Blacks are much blacker, the colors pop and are vivid, the sense of contrast was previously only hinted at. But oh that texture and those sparklies, after a while that's all I can see and I can't focus on the movie. OK so the texture drives me nuts I'll put my 1.2 gain white screen back into the mix. Oh oh, blacks aren't as black, colors look more washed out, contrast where have you gone? So now I'm in hell, I can't use the Graywolf because the texture is distracting and I can't use my matte white because I now realize what I am missing when I watch it. I find myself wishing that Dalite would make a gray highpower screen, or even a midpower screen. Is there any hope for me?


Moe


----------



## millerwill

Zipplemeyer: sounds like you need bite the bullet and shell out for a Firehawk.


----------



## Honu

I guess after having both the GWI and the GWII I think there is more than a %20 increase ?

but maybe this is there not so accurate QC coming through







hehehe


I would say the sparklies are almost gone unless you freeze the frame and look ? or if you get certain scenes you can see them a bit but nothing like the original


Texture ? yup its annoying and there but again I think a flat pic is just as annoying so pick your poison









but again compared to the first gen its way better (the texture)

in many movies and was watching the island last night to see it in all the white it was quite enjoyable and I really did not get anoyed where the GWI was nasty


comparing skin tones they are more dingy looking compare to the HCMW but in certain scenes it is hard to tell these two apart

then with skin tones the HCMW is nicer but yet with whites with the PJ mounted lower the GWII is not so bad ? but off angle its dirty so to answer the viewing angle thing I think it has gotten narrower !


in a mixed scene with over %50 white area the HCMW falls behind and looks washed out a bit

(my room has light walls)


so again pros cons to everything


for the money the GWII is not bad the HCMW is another nice choice as is the HP

if I had to have one screen of these only I would choose the HCMW I think ???

but the HP would be last as it blooms the colors and they are a bit to fake and bright ? but some people like this so again not my place to say what others like and I always say you have to get a screen in your place and decide for yourself


maybe this Xmas we will treat ourselves to a new Stewart screen










till then for the price of these screens get two







that is my theory


also Band of Brothers on the GWII is great cause the texture ads to the older look


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the HP would be last as it blooms the colors and they are a bit to fake and bright ? but some people like this so again not my place to say what others like and I always say you have to get a screen in your place and decide for yourself



Hey Honu. Have you tried the HP screen (and calibrated your PJ), or are you just going by samples? How is your PJ mounted?


I understand the proper filter should make the HP screen pretty much perfect once your PJ is calibrated for it. There are a lot of High Power lovers out there who say the colors pop, but the whites don't bloom as long as you tone down the gammas and calibrate with Avia or DVE. You can't go by samples.


----------



## Honu

Iggy









I had one to test and also still have 2x2 foot samples so both









calibrated yes but not with super high end gear my eye using Avia but the PJ I have is very close and I have a very good eye










my PJ a Samsung H710 is mounted behind me just above head height

to test the HCMW its mounted up over 7 feet (I have a tall AV rack) that all my gear is in


I agree there are a lot of HP lovers out there and I am one of them for certain uses !

its not the whites that bloom its the colors ! some of them more than others of course colors like red and stuff when near clean edges can bloom a touch


for shows like the Incredibles etc.. that are not real the colors are killer !!!! I mean super killer and WOW

but for some other things I think its over the top and that is why these screens are cheap enough why not have a few screens ! and enjoy the benefits and advantages that each one has


if you read my post







I tried to be mellow and say its all personal hehehehhe


also I think I am more critical than some ?

I do photography for a living







and as I say if you have been to Maui chances are you have seen my work from calendars to a lot of work for Kapalua and also work in Arch digest and other magazines so maybe I lean toward real colors and why I am happy with the 710 for my budget as I think its been the first PJ I have liked and I went through 5 in my home previewing including the screens

I work on a profiled monitor using gretag gear all day long so again I think my eye is good for what I am used to and I like










I still have plans on buying a HP and think its a great 2nd screen just not for me as a primary screen while the colors are punchy I think they are to punchy

now in some of my work I love punchy colors and I think the HP has that punchy Photoshoped look which again can be a good thing but not all the time



and this really boils down to there is no perfect combo for anyone since everyones taste differ so much


also want to agree with you %100 you cant go with just samples you need the full screen ! just like you need a PJ in house and that is the only way to know









YOUR HOUSE YOUR EYES


----------



## iggymama

Thanks for the clarification, Honu (is that short for Honolulu?). I am still debating over the HP screen. I thought it looked a bit too bright and "cartoonish" with the 1 foot square sample, but everyone says it can be adjusted down. I have a Panny 900 mounted mid wall at 13' from the screen. I hate the GW2 screen for it's dingy colors and noticeable texture and occasional sparklies, and my hubby loved the look of the HP sample. Maybe I should get the Model B since it's so cheap. Then if I don't like it all the time, I can do what you did and get a second cheap screen later, and mount one behind the other!


Have you tried the HP screen with a filter on your PJ? Is the 710 a "light cannon"? They say an ND2 filter willl mellow it out quite a bit. Other 81 filters also adjust for color weakness with the ae900.


I wish I could try out a full sized screen and not get stuck with it if I don't like it. 20% restocking fee and $40-100 for shipping hardly makes it worth exchanging.


----------



## iggymama

Great, now my brand new GW2 screen is starting to fail to stay down. I have to go up and down several times before it will stay. I fear imminent demise! I must get a new screen soon! Say what you will about the look, if it won't stay down or retract after only a week of use, what's the use? I have heard so many negative reports about these Optoma screens!


----------



## iggymama

I just measured my viewing distance (before I was just estimating), and I am actually only 10 feet from the screen, with the PJ at 4 feet high and 11 feet from the screen. Maybe if I were a few feet further back I wouldn't notice the texture and little sparklies with the GW2 screen. Alas, it will probably fail soon anyways...


----------



## Honu

Iggy









its Hawaiian for Turtle (sea turtle)

I have about 5000 dives under me and love turtles so kinda my nick and my aumakua (spirit guradian ) is the quickest way but it goes deeper







kinda fun to research new things if you are more curious


well last night I decided NOT to get another GW chatting with the wife etc..

like she said this is the 3rd Optoma screen I have had probs with ? from bad packaging to the line across the top


going with a Electric HCMW


Iggy you can get 2x2 foot samples buy asking them







helps out a lot


also I know there are lots that love the HP with the Panny







so might be a good combo

returning a screen is a hassle !!!!! I so wish the companies could come up with trial rental screens ! to use even if it was like $100 for a week or something to determine if we like it but as you mention the %20 restocking fee of a screen is the only way to try it out and also the GW from costco was safe and no restocking but with this last one coming in dented ! the line on the top ! and the wrong size ! I am done with Optoma for good !!!!!!!!

I hated trying out screens and Projectors and returning them !!!!

what got me more upset is how horrid retail locations are to help !!

I even told them straight up I will buy from you but you better offer me service and some ways to see if I like it ! when they basically shoved me off I just said well then you wonder why so many go with mail order !!!!!!!



from my own thoughts the C model is worth the extra to have the larger roller etc..


I hear ya on the dingy though while its better than it was ? still not as nice as others


the 710 is not a light canon really just extremely accurate I think

you can look it up in the over $3500 Samsung H710

I had tried a ND filter but that really only cuts overall output

read some threads on using color filters etc. with the Panny



all I can say is it seems to have taken me a long time to get it down where I wanted and at 2x the budget I started out at









as my adventure started out at looking at a 50 inch plasma to replace my 42







hehehehe

would I do it again knowing what I know now ??

YUP cause the look of a 106 inch image is so so so nice and balances my sound setup nicely


Iggy sure you will figure it all out and I really think having them in your place is the only way to tell


and just cause I think the HP was to bright isnt saying much







heheheheh

kinda like asking a person what they like better ? BMW or MB ? or analogy here







heheheheheheh



I can say this it was funny as the UPS driver was laughing and saying "Havent I delivered a few of these things here what are you doing with them all"


he must think I have some insane theater


also I think still as mentioned I will get a HP as a 2nd screen as they are so bright for that wow factor


best of luck


----------



## iggymama

Hey Honu! Do you do underwater photography? Do you have a web site with some of your pics (PM me if you like)? I love diving (and hiking, skiing and riding motorcycles... hey chicks like to have fun, too!). Have you ever swam with dolphins in Hawaii?


Anyways, I digress. I am thinking of the Model B with CSR because I heard they may have fewer waves because they don't roll up as tight, and probably will last longer (more roll-up & downs) than the Model B, while being $73 less and 20 lbs lighter than the Model C. May be cheaper to ship if it needs replacement (if I can ship via UPS), and easier to hang. We may be bringing the PJ and screen in the RV to do presentations on the road, so I'd like to have it as light and compact as possible while still being reliable. Although I might not wan't to lug a 106" screen around, so we may end up getting a smaller screen for this purpose. I am really struggling to decide between the Model B, B with CSR, or C - the price and wieght differences put me off.


I know what you mean about the UPS driver wondering why I keep buying screens. I bought the GW1 from BB online first (and returned it to the store), then ordered the GW2 from Staples.com. They shipped the wrong (GW1) screen TWICE (both are going back to Staples store), then finally shipped the GW2, which is now failing to lock in place (going back as well - as soon as I get a replacement - the HP?)! Optoma has the worse reliability and quality control I have ever seen!


I am a Fault Isolation Engineer for a Pacemaker company, and if our pacers had the quality control problems of Optoma, we would be killing patients and be out of business! It's amazing how these companies can stay in business (and retail stores still sell their crap instead of the good quality screens - like DaLite) with so many complaints. Does Optoma even give a rat's ass?


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Honu! Do you do underwater photography? Do you have a web site with some of your pics (PM me if you like)? I love diving (and hiking, skiing and riding motorcycles... hey chicks like to have fun, too!). Have you ever swam with dolphins in Hawaii?
> 
> 
> Anyways, I digress. I am thinking of the Model B with CSR because I heard they may have fewer waves because they don't roll up as tight, and probably will last longer (more roll-up & downs) than the Model B, while being $73 less and 20 lbs lighter than the Model C. May be cheaper to ship if it needs replacement (if I can ship via UPS), and easier to hang. We may be bringing the PJ and screen in the RV to do presentations on the road, so I'd like to have it as light and compact as possible while still being reliable. Although I might not wan't to lug a 106" screen around, so we may end up getting a smaller screen for this purpose. I am really struggling to decide between the Model B, B with CSR, or C - the price and wieght differences put me off.
> 
> 
> I know what you mean about the UPS driver wondering why I keep buying screens. I bought the GW1 from BB online first (and returned it to the store), then ordered the GW2 from Staples.com. They shipped the wrong (GW1) screen TWICE (both are going back to Staples store), then finally shipped the GW2, which is now failing to lock in place (going back as well - as soon as I get a replacement - the HP?)! Optoma has the worse reliability and quality control I have ever seen!
> 
> 
> I am a Fault Isolation Engineer for a Pacemaker company, and if our pacers had the quality control problems of Optoma, we would be killing patients and be out of business! It's amazing how these companies can stay in business (and retail stores still sell their crap instead of the good quality screens - like DaLite) with so many complaints. Does Optoma even give a rat's ass?





I would think the smaller roller on the Model B would cause the screen to roll up tighter because it has a smaller diameter than the Model C. Several other posters have already indicated that waves and ripples are less often to happen with the Model C because of it's larger diameter roller.


----------



## iggymama

I was referring to the Model B with CSR not rolling as tight as the Model B without CSR. I'm sure the Model C would be the best as far as waves and probably durability, but the cost (with shipping) and weight difference puts me off, since I don't even know if I will like the HP fabric.


I am thinking the Model B with CSR might be a good compromise.

Does anyone HAVE this screen who can comment here? Do you see waves, and have you had any problems with reliability (rolling up & down)?


----------



## SKoprowski

I wouldn't bother with CSR- a lot of people who paid extra for CSR still had issues with waves (including me) and the HCMW fabric. Personally, I would not bother with the HCMW Dalite fabric at all- you can't avoid the waves with it regardless if you get a Model B or C or get CSR. I would try the High Power fabric- you'll still get waves but you will not see them when viewing a movie like you would with the HCMW.



I am anxious to try the new GWII screen- I've seen it for under $160.00 online and may give it a try but I am kind of concerned about the quality issues- may be better off buying it locally. BTW-Dalite isn't exactly defect free either with their screens.


----------



## iggymama

$160 is really cheap for the GW2, and it probably doesn't include shipping and tax. I paid $400 for the 106" screen, got the wrong (GW1) screen shipped to me by the Optoma warehouse twice, and I still don't really like the texture of the GW2 screen, or the waves. And now it is already getting hard to lock down in place. There have been so many similar reports from so many people in this thread, I find it hard to recommend.


I have heard very few complaints about Dalite as far as quality of the screen rolling mechanisms, only with certain fabrics, like wrinkles on the HCMW. So you think the HCMW screen would show wrinkles on a small 50x50" screen (for the RV)? Where did you see these complaints about Dalite (which threads)?


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't bother with CSR- a lot of people who paid extra for CSR still had issues with waves (including me) and the HCMW fabric.



By the way, have you tried the Dalite screen with CSR or are you going by what other people said? I'd like to know how well the Model B CSR screen works (locking in place and rolling up) and how reliable it is, aside from waves.


I really don't understand why people don't see waves with HP fabric, but I do with the GW, when they are both retroreflective.


----------



## XYZVector

Grey Wolf 1 Experience



However my eyes are not well trained for screens, because my first experience is with the GW1 and before that I had a off white textured wall, so anything is better than that. However I did do alot of comparison shopping, and actually found a store that had a very simular setup to my home theater, with different screen materials, and even the same projector, They had somthing that I think is almost manditory for any home theator show room a neat mount that they could move around the room to show how the different screen materials look with different setups. I almost bought a GrayHawk 2 however it was more than 3 x the price of the GW1, and I couldn't discern any real advantage, for the price, yes the GH2 did look marginally better, however the angular reflective glass coating didn't impress me much except provide a little additional gain at the cost of having to place my projector farther from the screen which is impossible with my room's configuration. Anyways I have a projector that I think is bright enough, my projector is a Sharp DT-400

with a short throw lens.


However keep this in mind as you are shopping around. Glass beads increase gain on axis at the cost of OFF AXIS brightness, so you should only really consider them if you have a narrow room, and narrow view angles. Also glass beads introduce noise into the picture becuse they add texture, to the surface of the screen medium. Another thing to keep in mind with glass beads, and the salesman at the theater store showed me, is that at certian angles the beads can start causing specular reflections, this is what causes the shinies. It was cool to test drive several different screens, and actually see how they worked. I also overpayed for my screen aprox at a price of 315.00 after tax, however being able to see the screen, and check it's quality is aparently worth the extra money, becuse some of the horror stories that i have read on this form makes it well worth the extra expense. As the salesman warned me about the GW it is a fragile piece of equipment, and drop shipping is haphazzard at best, it was well worth the extra expense of not having to deal with UPS hell of a damaged screen. I cannot say the GW is the best screen on the market, it was the best screen for my budget, and application. I'm very happy with the picture quality, and amazed at how much difference the right screen makes for any home theater. I do agree though the QC sucks for Optoma screens, and the salesman told me he actually opens up each screen he receives, and tests it for quality, damage, and if it doesn't perform, I.E. the plastic causing a coldspot/hotspot line, it goes right back to Optoma. So when I got home I didn't have a plastic slip, and the screen performed exactly as it did in the show room. I guess that is where the 200% markup goes. Jerry's audio and video is the place to go in Scottsdale, AZ. I just wished everyone had access to a store like this. Even though my budget was modest the salesman made me feel like I was as important as the rich guy that had all the money in the world to spend on a home theater. Now that is customer service, I wished you all could have the pleasure of shoping at this store. Whenever I need anything for my home theater I will return to the place, even though I know I'm being fleaced on prices, however the level of customer service is well worth the price.


My advice is the Grey Glass beaded screens have a particular application, and in my research each screen technoligy has it's tradeoffs. You just have to find the technoligy that complements the theater room, and equipment that you have. Unfortunatly if you don't have access to a Jerry's audio & video or specialty theater showroom you will probably have a hard time determining what will work for your home theater enviroment.


-------------------------------------------------------

System Specs

-------------------------------------------------------

Sharp DT-400 DLP Projector

Onkyo 790 HIT 7.1

XBOX

XBOX 360

DIRECTV SDTV (BLAH)

OPTOMA Grey Wolf 106" 16:9 Screen


----------



## Dave Mack

So all in all, I have a 92" Graywolf. Worth the upgrade to the GWII...? I have white walls and ceiling, (rental apt. so can't change...)


Thanks! d


----------



## Dave Mack

Anyone...?


----------



## MUCHO

Dave -


I'd say no.


The main difference is that with the GWI I could occasionally see the sparklies if I was looking for them and with the GWII I haven't seen them once.


Some have said the texture is less on the GWII but frankly I didn't notice it being much if any different.


Finally - I could be imagining it - the GWII is slightly better at rejecting ambient light.


----------



## iggymama

Dave,


You should read the previous posts. There has been MUCH discussion.


How is your PJ mounted? How far are you from the screen? How much more is the GW2 than you paid for the GW1? It is better, but not good enough for some (I think sitting closer than 12 feet you would be bothered by the texture and occasional sparklies), and it is fairly dark. Skies still look dirty. Optoma quality control is abysmal! The CR is pretty good, though. Some movies might look better than a white screen with the texture (adds to film-like appearance).


I am still waiting for delivery of my 106" High Power screen (tomorrow?).


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dave -
> 
> 
> I'd say no.
> 
> 
> The main difference is that with the GWI I could occasionally see the sparklies if I was looking for them and with the GWII I haven't seen them once.
> 
> 
> Some have said the texture is less on the GWII but frankly I didn't notice it being much if any different.
> 
> 
> Finally - I could be imagining it - the GWII is slightly better at rejecting ambient light.



Out of curiosity, how far are you from the screen? How high is your PJ mounted? I am wondering if the screens are manufactured differently, or I am just too close, so the sparklies are more noticeable for me.


----------



## Dave Mack

Thanks all! Actually I did read all the thread but it was mostly by owners who only had one model, not both.

I have the 92" version. we sit about 11 feet away. PJ is table mounted. We rent an apt. and have white walls and ceiling so the graywolf is good for our light issues. I can get the model II for $20 more than I paid for the original.


----------



## iggymama

Several people have reported the GW2 being somewhat better, but not worth the typically $100 increase in price. For an extra $20, it could be a good deal, but make sure you really get the GW2. Where did you see it for that price? Can you return the GW1? If so, go for it! If not, you will have to TRY and sell the old one, right? Good luck with that!


Many, including myself have been shipped the wrong screen (twice for me through Staples.com!), or had a damaged screen or one that won't roll or down. Make sure you won't get stuck with restocking or shipping charges if that happens.


----------



## Dave Mack

Amazon, my brother!!!

I have my screen on Craigslist for $120. We'll see...


----------



## millerwill

Does anyone know what the gain ACTUALLY is for the GWII? Optoma still lists it as 1.8, but I don't think anyone believes that it is really this high.


----------



## Honu

sorry for the sucks







but man this company steams my twinkies !!!!!



IggyMamam







the wrong screen ship thing is getting funny







in a sad way


OK I was stupid someone slap me I decided to be cheap and try to order the Optoma one more time from Costco


SO the 120 showed up today and my thoughts were cool they packaged it super nice with this extra corner edging from Uline that was super strong and on all the corners !

the corner edging ran the full length and is strong enough that it would not bend


well excited thinking whheeee finally one with no dents and I unpack it and there is a big old dent in the case !!!

but the thing is no damage on the box ?? so to me this is a repacked unit or else its getting dented in the factory and they dont care ?

either way OPTOMA SUCKS AS A COMPANY !!!!!!



I am not the only one to get dented cases and what looks like to be repackaged units ?

the last one that was suposed to be the 106 came to me as a 92 ?

and of course had the line across the top from the saran wrap !!!



BUT this is a first for me the plastic wraper around the screen I look and think how did it get dirty ?

wait thats not dirt its RUST or something very close to it


sorry for the bad pics was with a point shoot and super quick !!! arrgghhhh

you can see what the stuff is a bit closer in the one pic


so I am thinking man this is cool new screen and it has bunch of rust in it !!!!


well for sure %10000000 I will never buy another Optoma product again with this kind of QC I dont trust them !!!

also will make sure that anyone I talk to about HT stuff knows that they should be avoided


sorry to rant but hope it helps someone stay away from them and avoid them !!!


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, how far are you from the screen? How high is your PJ mounted? I am wondering if the screens are manufactured differently, or I am just too close, so the sparklies are more noticeable for me.



Are you talking about the GWI? I could see the sparklies if I tried, moved my head around ect ect. Can't see them at all with the GWII.


To answer your question the PJ is shelf mounted, inverted, about 6 feet up, 12 feet from the screen. My head is about 11 feet from the screen. 92" version.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> well for sure %10000000 I will never buy another Optoma product again with this kind of QC I dont trust them !!!
> 
> also will make sure that anyone I talk to about HT stuff knows that they should be avoided
> 
> 
> sorry to rant but hope it helps someone stay away from them and avoid them !!!



I'm far from the Optoma defender but my experience has been 100% different than yours. My point? Instead of giving up on Optoma why not contact them and let them know whats going on? Surely they would want to know.


----------



## iggymama

Well, Mucho, maybe that extra foot from the screen to your "heat" (head I presume, or do you mean you are hot-headed - ha!) makes the texture less noticeable, or you don't mind a grainy picture, or your screen is actually smoother than mine. I don't know. I have heard different opinions from different people, and some people are bothered by the texture more than others.


I finally recieved my HP screen and spent a couple hours tweaking it. I had to drop the contrast to -24 to get the whites to stop blooming or crushing in scenes with a lot of contrast. Blacks are not as dark as with the GW. I just hope my HP screen can be made better by a filter (81EF?). It seems a bit too bright to me, in the very low and very high IREs. People in the ae900 tweaks thread seem to like the results with the 81C or 81EF filters (better blacks, better CR, better dark details, better grayscale).


With the cash I saved on the HP screen (it was $123 less than the 106" GW2), I can get a filter for $55 and still save money. When the lamp dims, I can remove the filter and probably double my lamp life with the HP screen. More cash in the bank!


----------



## Honu

Mucho good point I have told them but it seems to fall on dead ears ??????


that is the prob I am not sure if anyone knows who to call or talk to as I would rather have them know about it I think









but I also think why ???

they seem to not care and repack things ? or pack them dented ? or damaged etc..


so to me its almost like let them keep doing what they want and they will hang themselves


or maybe not ? seems people these days accept things in our disposable society and are very quick to forget


decided to hang it up tonight to see what it would look like and the handle fell off







heheheh

and there are so many waves its amazing I mean really really bad ones ???

so I look down the bottom bar with the handle on it and its bent !!

I am now wondering if this was a retturn and repack for sure !!!!


dented !

handle broken !

tension bar (or whatever its called) bent !

rust !

waves !


----------



## Honu

iggy







glad ya got the screen and bet you are stoked to get the filter


----------



## umdivx

can anyone recomend a gray screen alternative to the WF? thats around the same price range?


- Josh


----------



## Honu

umdivx the HCMW by dalite is close in a way ? not as much gain but the colors are a bit nicer and cleaner

in room with some ambient light the GW looks less washed out but in a dark room with a small amount of light they are close ? the GW has a bit better darks and the HCMW has nicer whites ?

the color on the HCMW is more acurate overall


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> umdivx the HCMW by dalite is close in a way ? not as much gain but the colors are a bit nicer and cleaner
> 
> in room with some ambient light the GW looks less washed out but in a dark room with a small amount of light they are close ? the GW has a bit better darks and the HCMW has nicer whites ?
> 
> the color on the HCMW is more acurate overall



I have heard a lot of complaints about the HCMW having waves and streaks in the screen material, and also the same kind of grainy texture as the GW.


----------



## MUCHO

Hey Iggy I just noticed you're onlyabout 20 minutes away from me. (I'm in Valencia). Maybe I could come by some evening to check out your screen?


----------



## BoomieMCT

I just sent my Graywolf back for an exchange. It had a dented tension bar and uneven tension on the roller (causing one BIG wave on the left side). Also, the roller really didn't retract easily. The picture actually still looked great except in panning shots. The small waves I couldn't see but the one BIG wave I couldnt' stop seeing! We'll see how the replacement looks.


As a note, my office has about a half dozen 120" or so Da-lite Model C screens. They have been hanging for years. Still they have less waves then my GW had new (or new after hanging for a week). On the other hand, because of the material the little waves they had are *much* more noticeable.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> umdivx the HCMW by dalite is close in a way ? not as much gain but the colors are a bit nicer and cleaner
> 
> in room with some ambient light the GW looks less washed out but in a dark room with a small amount of light they are close ? the GW has a bit better darks and the HCMW has nicer whites ?
> 
> the color on the HCMW is more acurate overall



Where can I find this screen? Any reputable retailers?


- Josh


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Iggy I just noticed you're onlyabout 20 minutes away from me. (I'm in Valencia). Maybe I could come by some evening to check out your screen?



I think we could work that out some evening. I'll be in touch!


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey Iggy I just noticed you're onlyabout 20 minutes away from me. (I'm in Valencia). Maybe I could come by some evening to check out your screen?



By the way, I will be returning the GW2 in the next few days (30 days almost up), so let me know if you wanted to see that screen or the HP.


----------



## Honu

Josh call Jason here on AVS he is on top of many threads as a sticky







so he is easy to find


I just ordered a 106 electric today from Costco online


best price is from here on AVS for sure but costco has the best long term return policy and I do a ton of biz with them so I will pay a bit more but for me its worth it










also there are a few of the avs member companies up above that I am sure sell them


call them up and get some large samples sent out most likely they will only send a few large samples otherwise they will send you a complete kit with all the samples mounted to paper and they are so small and hard to do anything with

they will send you 2x2 foot samples but you have to email in and request or call them up and request two large samples !!!! !

you still need a full screen but the large samples can help you narrow it down to what you like


----------



## Mr2Spyder

Wow. Sounds like a lot of people have been receiving bum screens. I was so happy with my GWII I ordered a second one. I havent had the problems with either screen as so many people seem to be having. It is funny as I have seen the stewart firehawk screen at two different stores (at @ $1000) and was very unimpressed with the picture quality. There are slight imperfections with both my GWII screens but they dont effect the picture quality that is noticeable. Just wanted people to know that not all GW II are bad especially for the price.


----------



## umdivx

ok well I pulled the trigger and bought the Panny AE900. Got it setup last night and just initial image on the wall looks friggen awsome.


so anyways I have a new delema. I have an oportunity to buy a used 106" Graywolf 1 screen for $100 delivered to my house (from a local HT nut)


But will the small room that I have, just from the measurements I did from measuring the projected image on teh wall I am getting around 99" to 101" screen.


So If I bought the 106" graywolf I wouldnt be filling the screen totaly in. Would I have any ill effects, noticable anoyance's, or anything by not filling the screen totaly in?


thanks,

Josh


----------



## dubs29

Well ordered the Optoma H27 and free Graywolf screen. Got the projector, and great item will work for my needs. Opened the screen box today, since its my first day off. The box lists a 92in Graywolf II Gray screen. SWEET!!!!!, opened it up and it looks to have been previously opened. Sure enough the case is damaged, the part number don't match the box and I got a panaview White Matte Screen. BU##$#^T!!!!!

Contacted Costco, waiting to here what to do next. Well looks like I'll have to wait another 10 or more days. Just lovely. Any ideas out there? At least any ideas that won't have me going to jail?


----------



## FremontRich




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Josh call Jason here on AVS he is on top of many threads as a sticky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so he is easy to find
> 
> 
> I just ordered a 106 electric today from Costco online
> 
> 
> best price is from here on AVS for sure but costco has the best long term return policy and I do a ton of biz with them so I will pay a bit more but for me its worth it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> also there are a few of the avs member companies up above that I am sure sell them
> 
> 
> call them up and get some large samples sent out most likely they will only send a few large samples otherwise they will send you a complete kit with all the samples mounted to paper and they are so small and hard to do anything with
> 
> they will send you 2x2 foot samples but you have to email in and request or call them up and request two large samples !!!! !
> 
> you still need a full screen but the large samples can help you narrow it down to what you like




Hono: I just visited the Costco website and I don't see the Graywolf electric listed. They only show the manual Graywolf II in three sizes: 92," 106," and 120." Where is the electric listed?


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dubs29* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well ordered the Optoma H27 and free Graywolf screen. Got the projector, and great item will work for my needs. Opened the screen box today, since its my first day off. The box lists a 92in Graywolf II Gray screen. SWEET!!!!!, opened it up and it looks to have been previously opened. Sure enough the case is damaged, the part number don't match the box and I got a panaview White Matte Screen. BU##$#^T!!!!!
> 
> Contacted Costco, waiting to here what to do next. Well looks like I'll have to wait another 10 or more days. Just lovely. Any ideas out there? At least any ideas that won't have me going to jail?



It figures! Costo-purchased GW screens are notorious for being received damaged and/or the wrong screen. I purchased my 106" GW2 thru Staples.com and got the wrong (GW1) screen twice. Then, I bitched to Optoma's customer service.


I was put in contact with Douglas Ma (direct line 408-456-3809), and asked him to go to the warehouse and find out what the hell is going on. He said they must have been at the bottom of a pile of screens and had some old ones mixed up, or some BS. I told him I would never purchase another Optoma screen because of their dismal quality control, but he offered to ship the correct screen, with free expedited shipping. I reluctantly agreed. I asked him to go to the warehouse and make sure they shipped me the GW2, and he did! He was very cooperative and helpful!


I finally got the right screen, as promised! It was undamaged. I ended up returning it to Staples anyways, because I still was bothered by the waves, texture and some sparklies, probably because I am sitting only 10 feet from the 106" screen. If I sat a few feet further back, it probably would be fine (other than the waves on the right side, which they ALL had, which made me seasick in panning shots).


I got the High Power screen from Jason Turk from AVScience (good price and service), but now I am having issues with blacks not being dark enough, and blue tint in the blacks with my Panny ae900 PJ.


So, I got a Cokin 81EF filter, but now faces look too yellow and there is still green push (green tinge around the edges of objects) with my ae900 PJ. CPCAT has similar complaints with a very similar setup and newer ae900.


Other that that, I love the HP screen. It is heavy, so there are no waves at all, and it is bright, clear and has no perceivable texture. I have seen one or two sparklies on occasion, but nothing like the GW screens. I am still trying to figure out the right filter.


----------



## davedeal

iggymama,


In retrospect do you think going with the Dalite HCMW would have been a better choice? I am coming off a GWII also with the same complaints (waves, texture), also sitting only 11' away. Everything I am reading seems to point to great colors and brightness with the HP but with signficant trade offs (black levels, noise, etc). So this has me wondering if I should go for the HCMW or equivalent.


----------



## iggymama

I have been reading a lot of complaints with waves with the HCMW screens. There is no perfect affordable screen. Everything is a trade off. That's why I got the HP. Waves really bother me. I figured I could tweak the color and improve the black level with fiters.


I am experimenting with Dynamic mode with the 81EF filter, and I think I prefer it to Normal mode with my PJ and the HP screen, which surprises me. I thought it would be too contrasty, and others said the gamma could not be tamed. But it seems to have less green push with my settings. I don't know about the gammas, without a meter or cal software, just my eyes and DVE. I need to watch more sources & programs before I decide. I think the newer build ae900s are quite different from the older ones.


----------



## Honu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *FremontRich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hono: I just visited the Costco website and I don't see the Graywolf electric listed. They only show the manual Graywolf II in three sizes: 92," 106," and 120." Where is the electric listed?



the dalite is the electric







sorry about the confusion so that is the Dalite 106 HCMW I ordered and am still waiting on ???


----------



## Honu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davedeal* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> iggymama,
> 
> 
> In retrospect do you think going with the Dalite HCMW would have been a better choice? I am coming off a GWII also with the same complaints (waves, texture), also sitting only 11' away. Everything I am reading seems to point to great colors and brightness with the HP but with signficant trade offs (black levels, noise, etc). So this has me wondering if I should go for the HCMW or equivalent.



if and when I get my HCMW







I will have both the GWII and HCMW up for a bit







and can give you some thoughts


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Honu* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> if and when I get my HCMW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will have both the GWII and HCMW up for a bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and can give you some thoughts



That would be very useful! Thanks much.


----------



## Honu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is no perfect affordable screen. Everything is a trade off. That's why I got the HP.



I think this is so so so so true at any price







as even with the firehawk some complain of sparklies etc..


sadly my thoughts are unless one has a perfect %100 black out dedicated theater there never will be the perfect overall screen for every thing


----------



## MUCHO

Yeah - although I have texture I'm not drawn to it like a moth to flame. I only see it when looking for it or ... when watching HDTV basketball.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MUCHO* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah - although I have texture I'm not drawn to it like a moth to flame. I only see it when looking for it or ... when watching HDTV basketball.



I was drawn to the texture, waves and sparklies of the GW2 "like a moth to flame" as you succinctly stated, Mucho!


Best of luck with the HCMW, and I am sure you will enlighten us with your opinion of it, much anticipated! (I just finished watching Deadwood, so please excuse my exaggerated tongue!)


----------



## dubs29

Well I just talked to Costco. Here is what I was told.

Ship it all back, Wait till everything gets there to get a credit to my account and then try to reorder the same set-up and hope its in stock.

All total about a month to get accomplished. 7-10 days for a return shipping label. 6-9 days return to sender. 3-5 days for return authorization to credit account. 3-5 days to get credit. 1-3 days for credit card company to show credit. Pray still in stock after already waiting minimum 20 days. Reorder system 2 days to show order in system. 8-10 days to ship back to me to do all over again.

NOT ACCEPTABLE!


Well I'll look into other avenues to correct this situation. I do not want to jack around for a month only to tempt fate and see if this happens again as it already has for others or if this will still be in stock then. I have read thru this thread and also read some other online rants about this very problem with optoma and costco. It seems it happens over 65% of the time that something is wrong. I just want the friggin screen I was promised and sold. Why in the world would someone want you to ship everything back just to restart the process. Just correct the error in the screen! Is it really that difficult to use common sense here? Why pay to ship all that back when you can simply take care of the one issue and be done with it. I guess it makes sense to be just throw money away.


----------



## iggymama

Why don't you call Douglas Ma (direct line 408-456-3809) in Optoma's customer service?


----------



## dubs29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why don't you call Douglas Ma (direct line 408-456-3809) in Optoma's customer service?



Working on it now. I'll let you know if I reach him or someone that can get this handled.


----------



## dubs29

Well got a hold of Douglas Ma. He wanted to know how I got a hold of his number. I told him that a CSR had sent me his way. Well after speaking with him for some time I came to find out another guy was in charge of the Costco Accounts. Same scenario alot of questions, how did you get the number, why are you contacting me, so on and so on. Again I explained the situation that I refuse to have to send in the projector along with the screen and play a month long game of tag for what appears to be bait and switch on someones part. He agreed to contact Costco and get an idea about me shipping back to Optoma and then they resend the proper screen to me. Well long story short He agreed after he talks to his people about getting the ups paperwork to me to ship to them and have the new screen shipped back. I am waiting for his e-mail from the folks for the return authorization. I hope this all works out. Thanks Iggymama for your assistance! I really only bought this thing for my wife for her school and it's use showing movies and short story items in her literature class. I would do anything to help her teach these kids that she has to deal with. Mostly way inner city, illegal, and mentally and emotionally disturbed. Its not where you teach, it just how you teach that makes these kids better than their surroundings.


----------



## iggymama

Oh, yeah! I forgot Doug Ma was the Staples rep. Hopefully he can help you, or connect you with the Costco rep who will. Maybe if enough people call customer service, they will get the message that they need to get their **** together! Hey, if you do get the name and number of the Costco rep, maybe you can post it for others in the same boat!


----------



## millerwill

Has anyone gotten a fixed-frame GWII? I would presume that it would have no wrinkles in it, though the 'texture issue' would presumably still be there for those that are bothered by it. Would be interested to hear from anyone that has one of these.


----------



## iggymama

You can always make one from a pull down. Try the pull down first to see if you like the material. See the DIY screens section.


----------



## dubs29




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh, yeah! I forgot Doug Ma was the Staples rep. Hopefully he can help you, or connect you with the Costco rep who will. Maybe if enough people call customer service, they will get the message that they need to get their **** together! Hey, if you do get the name and number of the Costco rep, maybe you can post it for others in the same boat!



Got the Guys Name and # for Costco Rep at Optoma.

His name is Paul, sorry no last as of yet. His phone # 1-408-456-3846

I talked with him for a while. As of 6pm I still had not heard back from him or gotten an e-mail to confirm the return of the screen. I only have his word that that are waiting on the return authorization from his people, but he called me and assured me as soon as they have it, he will make sure everything is taken care of. He promised to e-mail me the return authorization for UPS to get this handled quickly and as soon as they get it they will overnight the new screen. Lets hope it happens this way. Again, Thanks Iggymama for Dougs # to get the ball rollin.


----------



## iggymama

Any Time!!!


----------



## Rosso_Corsa

I just bought an HD6800 + GWII package from costco. See my post in the 6800 thread here .


Looks like you guys were right about the GW QC. Even my apparently brand new screen had a twist/bowing on part of the case (see pictures in my link). It hasn't affected the performance so far and the fabric is flawless so I won't pursue an exchange.


I do have one question though, about roll-up screens. To minimize the appearance of waves, what's the best thing to do?


a.) Roll up the screen after each use.


b.) Never roll the screen up.


c.) Roll it up occassionally.


The manual suggests rolling it up to avoid collecting dust, but Im far more concerned about the waves.


Other than that, I love the screen. It's bright and contrasty and I see no sparklies or texture whatsoever. It's beautiful with the HD72/6800.


Please let me know about the screen care.


----------



## iggymama

Good that you don't see noticeable sparklies or texture. I did, but I am 10' from the screen. Does the metal frame label on the screen say GrayWolfII on it? Make sure it has the 2 or II at the end, or you have the GW1 instead (a common QC problem). Unfortunately, you can't really clean glass beaded screens (incl. GW), so I would roll it up to keep it clean. One nice thing about the HP screen - it is smooth and can be easily cleaned.


There are no solutions to waves that I have seen. HP screens don't have this issue, possibly due to the heavier fabric, better DaLite quality rollers, or bent/twisted rollers (or whatever?) on Optoma screens.


----------



## Rosso_Corsa




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Good that you don't see noticeable sparklies or texture. I did, but I am 10' from the screen. Does the metal frame label on the screen say GrayWolfII on it? Make sure it has the 2 or II at the end, or you have the GW1 instead (a common QC problem). Unfortunately, you can't really clean glass beaded screens (incl. GW), so I would roll it up to keep it clean. One nice thing about the HP screen - it is smooth and can be easily cleaned.
> 
> 
> There are no solutions to waves that I have seen. HP screens don't have this issue, possibly due to the heavier fabric, better DaLite quality rollers, or bent/twisted rollers (or whatever?) on Optoma screens.



Yes, if you had seen the post that I linked, I posted a picture that showed the GWII logo. But thanks for asking. Here is the pic, again just so everyone knows what to look for:











So you're telling me that I can't prevent waves either way? Rolling up or not rolling up, it'll still be wavy soon enough?


----------



## lax01

Mine stays down 100% of the time and we tried weighting the bottom of the frame and the waves were still present, but hardly (if at all) noticable once the projector was on


----------



## BassTek

I'm looking at getting the HD6800 + 92" Graywolf II package but I'm not exactly sure what to do with the screen. I only plan to project an image around 80", so I would need to mask it off. I would assume adding screen tape will only compound the wave problem. The other option is to use it unmasked with borders on the side and bottom which may work, is anyone currently using their screen this way?


I'm trying to decide if I should just buy a smaller 77' HP screen, but it's hard to justify the cost when a free Graywolf is sitting in my closet. I suppose I could try the Graywolf first and then get the HP if I change my mind, but I would like to install one screen and leave it there. This is a rental apartment and the fewer the holes in the wall the better.


My goal is better daytime viewing conditions as I have to deal with some ambient light reflected indirectly off blinds. The Graywolf is probably better for this although the HP seems to be a better long term option as it hasn't had as many (any?) wave complaints.


----------



## iggymama

BassTek, try it out! Why mask it? If you really want it smaller, and are willing to leave it down all the time, cut out the fabric and staple it to a frame! No more waves! You may like the 92" too much to make it smaller, though! How far are you sitting?


----------



## BassTek

After thinking it through I probably won't mask it, too much trouble and there will still be spaces on the top for wide aspect films. I'm sitting from around 9', so depeding on setup my max image size will be 78-82' which should be fine from that distance. The fixed frame idea is a good one, I might go that route after a few months. The only problem with that is if I need to return the projector for whatever reason, I have to return the screen as well and it would be hard to explain how it got all cut up under normal use. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Tablenn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BassTek, try it out! Why mask it? If you really want it smaller, and are willing to leave it down all the time, cut out the fabric and staple it to a frame! No more waves! You may like the 92" too much to make it smaller, though! How far are you sitting?



I was also going to say you could always cut the material and place it on a flat surface. There are some drawbacks to that. I have just ordered my Optoma H27 w/GW screen from CostCo. If it has damage to the screen's casing like some have experienced then I might just cut it and try that idea out. Otherwise, I'll just make a screen like I had planned before I found this deal.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BassTek* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> After thinking it through I probably won't mask it, too much trouble and there will still be spaces on the top for wide aspect films. I'm sitting from around 9', so depeding on setup my max image size will be 78-82' which should be fine from that distance. The fixed frame idea is a good one, I might go that route after a few months. The only problem with that is if I need to return the projector for whatever reason, I have to return the screen as well and it would be hard to explain how it got all cut up under normal use. Thanks for the suggestion!



I just bought a used GW1 106" and I am sitting a little more than 10' from the screen. I am not filling it all the way, I have bout 1" on each side (top, bottom, left and right) of area where I am not filling the entire screen.


I can honestly say for the price I got the screen used, $125 delivered to my door, that its well worth it. I think that if you can do a 92" screen and your sitting at 9' i'd fill it all the way up. 106" at 10' is perfect, I think 92" would almost be too small.


so how far is your throw distance going to be? if you can get like 11 to 12 feet 92" would be perfect. Have you gone to projector central and used the calculator?


Also why and the hell would you have to send the screen in with the projector? When you buy a projector only the first 30 days is supported by the vendor you bought it from, after that the projector is sent to the manufacture for fixing, so I guess I just don't understand the reasononing for having to send teh screen back unless you where having issues with teh screen as well.


I was on the edge for a long time thinking that 106" would be too big for my seating area but its just right, and i wouldnt have like 92" becuase it wouldn't have been big enough.


- Josh


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just bought a used GW1 106" and I am sitting a little more than 10' from the screen. I am not filling it all the way, I have bout 1" on each side (top, bottom, left and right) of area where I am not filling the entire screen.
> 
> 
> I can honestly say for the price I got the screen used, $125 delivered to my door, that its well worth it. I think that if you can do a 92" screen and your sitting at 9' i'd fill it all the way up. 106" at 10' is perfect, I think 92" would almost be too small.
> 
> 
> so how far is your throw distance going to be? if you can get like 11 to 12 feet 92" would be perfect. Have you gone to projector central and used the calculator?
> 
> 
> Also why and the hell would you have to send the screen in with the projector? When you buy a projector only the first 30 days is supported by the vendor you bought it from, after that the projector is sent to the manufacture for fixing, so I guess I just don't understand the reasononing for having to send teh screen back unless you where having issues with teh screen as well.
> 
> 
> I was on the edge for a long time thinking that 106" would be too big for my seating area but its just right, and i wouldnt have like 92" becuase it wouldn't have been big enough.
> 
> 
> - Josh



I would concur with your viewing distance and screen size. At present, I using a 120" GWII, viewing it from ~12.5 ft, and find it great, an impressive pic. Of course my wife said it was too big, but she's even beginning to soften her comments after a week or so!


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would concur with your viewing distance and screen size. At present, I using a 120" GWII, viewing it from ~12.5 ft, and find it great, an impressive pic. Of course my wife said it was too big, but she's even beginning to soften her comments after a week or so!



I got lucky with my wife, at first she was hesitant on the whole projector/screen setup. I explaned to her that it would add more space to the room as the tv and tv stand would be gone and the projector is up out of the way, and the screen is flat against the wall.


She also liked the fact that I got the screen cheap, well actually got everything cheap. I sold my tv, tv stand, and av rack wich funded the cost of the projector and mount. Then $125 for the screen so really no major costs to me.


I got everything setup this past weekend, we were watching the Twins get their butt's kicked in HD by the tigers Friday night and the wifes goes " I kind like this " meaning that she actually liked it and didn't want to admit she was wrong










hehe....


- Josh


----------



## millerwill

umdivx: Sounds like a similar experience!


----------



## iggymama

Sounds like a good size for that viewing distance! The WAF is so importantant (and hard-earned)! I am still working on the HAF! He's sick of my excessive tweaking. I'm getting close, though (I hope) with my 106" HP screen, ae900 and 81EF filter.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like a good size for that viewing distance! The WAF is so importantant (and hard-earned)! I am still working on the HAF! He's sick of my excessive tweaking. I'm getting close, though (I hope) with my 106" HP screen, ae900 and 81EF filter.



hehe, for some reason that just cracks me up. I just couldn't see my wife doing anything like this.


- Josh


----------



## BassTek




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just bought a used GW1 106" and I am sitting a little more than 10' from the screen. I am not filling it all the way, I have bout 1" on each side (top, bottom, left and right) of area where I am not filling the entire screen.
> 
> 
> I can honestly say for the price I got the screen used, $125 delivered to my door, that its well worth it. I think that if you can do a 92" screen and your sitting at 9' i'd fill it all the way up. 106" at 10' is perfect, I think 92" would almost be too small.
> 
> 
> so how far is your throw distance going to be? if you can get like 11 to 12 feet 92" would be perfect. Have you gone to projector central and used the calculator?
> 
> 
> Also why and the hell would you have to send the screen in with the projector? When you buy a projector only the first 30 days is supported by the vendor you bought it from, after that the projector is sent to the manufacture for fixing, so I guess I just don't understand the reasononing for having to send teh screen back unless you where having issues with teh screen as well.
> 
> 
> I was on the edge for a long time thinking that 106" would be too big for my seating area but its just right, and i wouldnt have like 92" becuase it wouldn't have been big enough.
> 
> 
> - Josh



Thanks for your comments and sharing your screen size experience.


Well it's a Costco package, pretty much the best deal in Canada right now for a 720 FP system. They have a great, pretty much no questions asked return policy for 1 year but part of the catch is that you have to have everything you got the item with. So screen, cables, remote, instructions. I can't see myself returning it after the first 30 days, but with new LCD models around the corner... who knows.


I would like to go bigger and fill the 92", but with the model I'm choosing (HD72) the max will be 82" at most. I mapped it out on the wall and it should be fine but I can't go bigger if I like because it's a pretty small apartment and the PJ will be shelf mounted on the back wall fairly high over the couch.


I think I'll hold off doing anything with the screen and try it for the first few months with the grey walls that we currently have. Once the initial awe wears off I might cut the screen up and mount it to a frame. By that time I should have a better idea what the market will be like and can decide if I want to keep it long term.


82" may seem small to you folks, but I'm currently using a 27" direct view CRT so the difference should be amazing. I can't wait!


----------



## steinre1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got lucky with my wife, at first she was hesitant on the whole projector/screen setup. I explaned to her that it would add more space to the room as the tv and tv stand would be gone and the projector is up out of the way, and the screen is flat against the wall.
> 
> 
> She also liked the fact that I got the screen cheap, well actually got everything cheap. I sold my tv, tv stand, and av rack wich funded the cost of the projector and mount. Then $125 for the screen so really no major costs to me.
> 
> 
> I got everything setup this past weekend, we were watching the Twins get their butt's kicked in HD by the tigers Friday night and the wifes goes " I kind like this " meaning that she actually liked it and didn't want to admit she was wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hehe....
> 
> 
> - Josh




You got lucky with your wife? You must still be newlyweds...


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steinre1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You got lucky with your wife? You must still be newlyweds...




haha na... we've been married 3 years now, but been together for 10.


- Josh


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hehe, for some reason that just cracks me up. I just couldn't see my wife doing anything like this.
> 
> 
> - Josh



Yeah, I'm definately not typical (normal? - whatever!). We kinda have reverse roles. I work as an Fault Isolation E.E. at a pacemaker mfg. company, and he is a screenwriter and owns his own pest control business. He is home most of the day cleaning the kitchen, talking on the phone and puttering around the house, while I am at work. I cook and he washes the dishes. I make more money than he does. What can I say?


I decided a long time ago I didn't want to end up like my mom, divorced with no career and having to go back to college in my 50's. So I got paid to learn electronics in the CETA program, became a tech, and then changed my major from Biology to Engineering. I went to school at night for my BS degree while working full time at this company (I've been there for 22 years!). That's a long friggin' time at the same place! Sometimes I can't beleive I've been there that long myself. Now if only they'd pay me what a man would be making with 22 years at the company! Anyways, enough whining. At least I have job security, and I probably won't get outsourced! Plus I learned a lot about computers at this job!


I wonder what ISF techs typically make in the L.A. area...


----------



## iggymama

Oh, and we've been together for 17 years! We both ride motorcycles, which we load onto racks on the front and back of our 32' Itasca Spirit RV, with two Kayaks on the roof. We hike all the time, and we downhill ski every winter.


I have a 6' red tail boa and a 12 year old iguana named Ziggy (hence the username iggymama). We raised a rescued fox tree squirrel from a baby. I built her a big cage with a nesting box (next to Ziggy's cage), and when she was 8 months old, we opened the door. She ran around, got her assed kicked (and knocked out of the tree twice) by Tony Soprano Squirrel, and then had his babies in her nesting box. She finally built a nest in our tree, and now her babies are probably nursing their own babies in nests that they built. She still visits me several times a week and lets me feed and pet her. Still my little girl (I have no kids, so they are like my kids only better - no college tuition, they never borrow my car, and food is a lot cheaper!).


A "little" off-topic, but I couldn't resist. Hope I didn't annoy anyone! Squirrels just wanna have fun, right?


----------



## ctviggen

I'm also an EE (MSEE, now patent attorney), though I'm male. My college sent me a recent letter saying that female enrollment was up to a shocking 25 % or so. When I was there, it was near 10% and typically near 0% in upper level classes. Anyway, I'm not sure I'd want to be an ISF tech. They travel all the time.


----------



## iggymama

Yeah, I do hate driving, especially around L.A. I just thought I could work for myself someday, and be free of the BS company politics. This company has gone through an amazing amount of ****, and many in upper managemant don't seem to have much respect for women engineers. If only he would sell one of his screenplays!


----------



## iggymama

Hey, I didn't know this forum was sensored!


----------



## Mike N Ike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would concur with your viewing distance and screen size. At present, I using a 120" GWII, viewing it from ~12.5 ft, and find it great, an impressive pic. Of course my wife said it was too big, but she's even beginning to soften her comments after a week or so!



Bill,


How did you come by a 120" GWII? I was interested in the GW but quit looking when I thought the biggest was the 106". Is yours a fixed frame? Does that mean Optoma will make them in custom sizes? I'm looking to get a fixed frame 46.75" x 110" (2.35:1).


Thanks,

Mike


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike N Ike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> 
> How did you come by a 120" GWII? I was interested in the GW but quit looking when I thought the biggest was the 106". Is yours a fixed frame? Does that mean Optoma will make them in custom sizes? I'm looking to get a fixed frame 46.75" x 110" (2.35:1).
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



It's a manual pull-down, from Costco on line. I'm probably not discriminating enough to see the faults in the GW that others do, for it looks excellent to me; no wrinkles, no 'dirty whites' to my eyes (which are 20/20, but not very experienced in FP).


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mike N Ike* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> 
> How did you come by a 120" GWII? I was interested in the GW but quit looking when I thought the biggest was the 106". Is yours a fixed frame? Does that mean Optoma will make them in custom sizes? I'm looking to get a fixed frame 46.75" x 110" (2.35:1).
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike



http://www.visualapex.com/accessorie...a&Type=Screens 



- Josh


----------



## Airboss

Just some comparison shots of a 106" Graywolf I and a 119" Da-light Model C High Power.


The Da-light definitely has better construction, as you can see in this photo:











Screens without image:











A few images for comparison:

































































After a couple of weeks of using the High Power I've found that for most of the movies I've watched, I prefer the Graywolf over the High Power. I like the blacks being black, more than I care about the whites being white.


For movies which are outdoors and/or comprised mostly of bright scenes, such as "Open Range", the High Power looks good.


----------



## millerwill

Airboss: Thanks much for these very informative pics! I currently have a GWII (120"), and after reading about its many shortcomings, am surprised by how nice a job it does. Does seem to give a rich pic. I only have some HighPower samples, so it was very hard for me to get a reasonable comparison; so your pics are very helpful. BUT NOTE: I'm really a FP novice, so my observations may not at all be perceptive!


I tend to agree with your evaluation, with the possible caveat: if one re-adjusted the Brightness and Contrast with the HighPower, would one be able to tone down the blazing whites and get a comparable pic to the GW? I.e., it seems like each screen needs different Brightness and Contrast settings to optomize the pic, so this makes it less meaningful to show the two screens side-by-side. Does this make sense?


----------



## millerwill

Airboss: So you were able to get a HighPower with 'right of return'? Can you say, or PM me from whom you were able to get it? TIA


----------



## lax01

Honestly, i think the Graywolf looks better too...you can only tell teh whites are very bright when you have something to compare it to...like the HP....color is better as well on the GW


----------



## iggymama

The High Power screen CAN look great - if you add a FILTER and tweak it properly. You really can't compare the HP and GW2 with the same settings - it's just not a fair comparison.


I got the 81EF Cokin P filter, 77mm adapter and filter holder for a very reasonable price at adorama (cheaper than 77mm threaded 81EF filters), and adding more filters is very cheap if you want to experiment. They are ~3 1/4" square glass filters, so they won't fade like gel filters. You can stack 3 filters in one holder plus threaded ones on the front.


Here are my settings for my April, 2006 ae900, MOXI HDTV via component with the 81EF filter and 106" High Power screen, seating at 10', PJ at 12' mid-wall (4' high). It looks pretty good to my eyes (without a color meter) for HD sources. First I tweaked the DVD over HDMI with DVE and saved the user setup, then loaded the settings with the component input and re-tweaking for HDTV by eye.


Normal

Contrast -7

Brightness +7

Color -15

Tint -3

Sharpness -6

Color Temp +6


Gammas

H -4

M 0

L +5


Contrast

R -8

G -16

B -10


Bright

R -3

G -12

B -4


Anyone with a similar setup who wants to try out my settings, please let me know what you think (especially if you have cal equipment). I got rid of the green push for most sources with these settings. The white crush is eliminated, too!


I'm liking my HP screen more and more, and the quality of the material and the roller assembly is much better than the GW. Maybe two Cokin filters (like 81C + CC20M or 81B + CC30M) would fix the green tinge, but possibly at the expense of sharpness, depending on the quality of the filters. I have not tested the filter with binocolars yet (looking for a double image, which would be bad). One CC40R would probably be best, but they are pretty pricey.


I must say, the price of that GW2 120" is pretty good, even with shipping, assuming it arrives in good condition - and is the right screen!


I think I need to start a 12-step meeting - TA - tweakaholics anonymous!


----------



## iggymama

Here are some pics of HDTV with my HP screen and 81EF filter.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Airboss: So you were able to get a HighPower with 'right of return'? Can you say, or PM me from whom you were able to get it? TIA



millerwill, I was not able to get the High Power with 'right of return', I'm hoping, if I decide to sell it, I will not take a hugh loss. I have a Graywolf II 120" on order and will decide after watching both (and adjusting projector for each) for awhile which I will keep.


In the pics above the projector was adjusted for the Graywolf. I will take some pics with the projector adjusted for the High Power. I've tried several different settings using Avia and DVE, but have been unable to get the deep blacks with the High Power (haven't tried filters though).


I'm like you, just a novice, but I know what I like, even if I can't give you a technical reason why. There are some movies that look great on the HP but, at least for the movies I've been watching the past couple of weeks, there are more that look better on the GW.


----------



## ctviggen

I'd rather not have to add a filter. To me, if you have the time and like tweaking things, then a filter is the way to go. My life is so busy and time-constricted that messing around with filters is the last thing I want to do. I'd rather put up the screen and be done with it. In every non-filtered HP shot I've seen with a comparison shot, I've always thought the whites were overly bright in the HP. In the pictures above, the GW II looks better.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the pictures above, the GW II looks better.



ctviggen, in the pics above the screen is a GW I.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> millerwill, I was not able to get the High Power with 'right of return', I'm hoping, if I decide to sell it, I will not take a hugh loss. I have a Graywolf II 120" on order and will decide after watching both (and adjusting projector for each) for awhile which I will keep.
> 
> 
> In the pics above the projector was adjusted for the Graywolf. I will take some pics with the projector adjusted for the High Power. I've tried several different settings using Avia and DVE, but have been unable to get the deep blacks with the High Power (haven't tried filters though).
> 
> 
> I'm like you, just a novice, but I know what I like, even if I can't give you a technical reason why. There are some movies that look great on the HP but, at least for the movies I've been watching the past couple of weeks, there are more that look better on the GW.



If you don't want to bother with the filter (which is only about $45 shipped, plus $20 for additional filters if you want to experiment, and easy to install), then you probably won't be happy with the HP screen. I wasn't happy filterless, but now I am! Whether you have a filter or not, you still need to tweak the colors and gammas, etc. for maximum contrast and accurate skintones. It's a little trickier to tweak with the filter if you have a newer ae900 than an older one because no one in the ae900 tweaks thread with cal equipment has posted their settings, and the newer ones seem to have more green push, especially with the HP screen, which seems to emphasize green/yellow more (or makes it more apparent because it is brighter). That's why I posted my settings.


If you are sitting 12' or more from the screen, then the GW2 is probably fine, but you still may have issues with dingy dirty skies, and big waves, especially with a 120" screen! I don't see waves on the HP at all. The material is nice and heavy and seems to lay flatter than the GW2, and the frame is better, even the model B. Plus, you may end up having to return the GW2 several times if it is defective, damaged or the wrong screen! To me, that's more of a hastle than tweaking!


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In the pics above the projector was adjusted for the Graywolf. I will take some pics with the projector adjusted for the High Power. I've tried several different settings using Avia and DVE, but have been unable to get the deep blacks with the High Power (haven't tried filters though).



Airboss, Yes, it would be great to have some comparison pics with adjustments to favor the HP as much as possible. Really appreciate your doing these comparisons, for it is almost impossible to get this kind of info.


----------



## millerwill

Airboss: Just re-read your 1st post again and realized that it is the GWI which you presently have, with the GWII on order. So I will eagerly await your comparisons of the GWII and the HP. And with all the enthusiasts around here, I'm sure you won't have any problem selling the HP if that is what you decide to do.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you are sitting 12' or more from the screen, then the GW2 is probably fine, but you still may have issues with dingy dirty skies, and big waves, especially with a 120" screen! I don't see waves on the HP at all. The material is nice and heavy and seems to lay flatter than the GW2, and the frame is better, even the model B. Plus, you may end up having to return the GW2 several times if it is defective, damaged or the wrong screen! To me, that's more of a hastle than tweaking!



iggymama, I don't see waves on my 106" GrayWolf and have not seen any on the HP either. I'll have to wait and see if any appear on the 120" GW II when it arrives.


You are correct the HP is constructed of much nicer material and is heavier and sturdier than the Graywolf, of course it is more expensive also. The packaging for shipment of the HP was much nicer also, very well packed.


I may experiment with filters down the road and that may improve the HP image but there is one area where the HP cannot compete with the GW with or without filters and that is ambient light rejection. There are many TV shows in HD which I like to watch with at least one light on. This light is located behind my sitting location, off my right shoulder and points directly at the ceiling. With this light on the GW image looks great , but the HP image is washed out on the lower 1/3 of the screen. That's the main reason I decided to go ahead and order a 120" GW II.


I will probably end of mounting both screens and using the one most appropriate for the movie or source I wish to view.


Randy


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> iggymama, I don't see waves on my 106" GrayWolf and have not seen any on the HP either. I'll have to wait and see if any appear on the 120" GW II when it arrives.
> 
> 
> You are correct the HP is constructed of much nicer material and is heavier and sturdier than the Graywolf, of course it is more expensive also. The packaging for shipment of the HP was much nicer also, very well packed.
> 
> 
> I may experiment with filters down the road and that may improve the HP image but there is one area where the HP cannot compete with the GW with or without filters and that is ambient light rejection. There are many TV shows in HD which I like to watch with at least one light on. This light is located behind my sitting location, off my right shoulder and points directly at the ceiling. With this light on the GW image looks great , but the HP image is washed out on the lower 1/3 of the screen. That's the main reason I decided to go ahead and order a 120" GW II.
> 
> 
> I will probably end of mounting both screens and using the one most appropriate for the movie or source I wish to view.
> 
> 
> Randy



If you see no waves when the camera pans on the GW, you are lucky. I saw waves on both GW1 and the GW2 106" screens! I have the Model B HP screen, and it was much cheaper than the GW2 thru Jason Turk at AVScience than Staples price for the GW2, and Staples allows returns with no restocking or shipping charges, whereas online dealers won't. Even with the filter, the HP was cheaper!


----------



## iggymama

I will repeat one more important defense of the HP screen. If you get a filter when the lamp is fresh, then when the lamp starts to age and get dim, you can remove the filter, re-tweak a few settings, and keep using the PJ on low lamp mode. Then as the lamp ages, you can switch to high lamp mode. This way, you can increase your lamp life by around 30%.


The GW screen is dark to begin with, and will never be any brighter without switching to high lamp mode. Therefore you will end up replacing your lamp sooner.


The HP screen may get you an extra year of lamp life in the next 3 years, which will save you close to $100 in the first 3 years. Think of the long term benefits!


----------



## millerwill

I asked this question some while ago and got no response: has anyone bought the fixed-frame version of the GWII? This would presumably eliminate the possibility of an wrinkles in the screen; and in the pictures, the border of the frame looks quite nice. Can anyone report on one of these?


----------



## elvisripley

Tubaprde posted a while back and had mounted a pull down screen on a frame.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elvisripley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tubaprde posted a while back and had mounted a pull down screen on a frame.



I was actually interested in the 'ready-made' fixed frame model rather than a DIY version.


----------



## ctviggen

My concern with filters isn't the benefits, it's the detriments, mainly time. Right now, I barely have time to figure out which projector and screen to get. Once I get the projector and screen installed, I want to set up the projector and then that's it. I don't want to futz around with the stupid thing to figure out what filter to get, redo all my settings, etc. I'd rather spend the time building amplifiers for my Linkwitz Orions. It all depends what you want from a system, and I don't want to be a slave to my projector system.


----------



## BoomieMCT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BoomieMCT* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just sent my Graywolf back for an exchange. It had a dented tension bar and uneven tension on the roller (causing one BIG wave on the left side). Also, the roller really didn't retract easily. The picture actually still looked great except in panning shots. The small waves I couldn't see but the one BIG wave I couldnt' stop seeing! We'll see how the replacement looks.



I got and hung my replacement GWI yesterday. Let me say that it had *none* of the defects my old GWI screen had! This one retracts easy and has no big waves. It is actually one of the most wave free non-tensioned screens I've seen so far. I am *very* happy.


That being said, from reading here and my own experiences it seems like either Optoma's quality control needs some work or they need better packaging materials. As happy as I am with my replacement GWI screen, it merely highlights how much of a lemon my first one was.


If Optoma ever made one with a heavier housing or sturdier materials I think I'd be interested.


----------



## I. M. Fletcher

I bought the costco special. I finally got everything hooked up a couple days ago. I'm really happy with the projector, but wow, this screen is junk. I have tons of waves and SDE. I'm sitting about 10' away from a 87" image. The SDE is only slightly noticable, but the waves are unbearable. Any pan about makes me sick. I've done a quick search and it doesn't seem like there are any solutions to this. I wonder if costco would take back the screen only and send me a new one to see if it's any better?


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *I. M. Fletcher* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I bought the costco special. I finally got everything hooked up a couple days ago. I'm really happy with the projector, but wow, this screen is junk. I have tons of waves and SDE. I'm sitting about 10' away from a 87" image. The SDE is only slightly noticable, but the waves are unbearable. Any pan about makes me sick. I've done a quick search and it doesn't seem like there are any solutions to this. I wonder if costco would take back the screen only and send me a new one to see if it's any better?



All of the 106" GW screens (2 GW and 1 GW2) had waves that had the same effect on me. The HP screen does not do that. I am also 10' from the screen. Another issue with GW is you can't really clean it. You can easily clean the HP screens, and the quality of Dalite is light years above Optoma!


My filtered ae900 and HP screen is quite nice, and was cheaper than the GW2 even with the $45 filter!


----------



## I. M. Fletcher




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All of the 106" GW screens (2 GW and 1 GW2) had waves that had the same effect on me. The HP screen does not do that. I am also 10' from the screen. Another issue with GW is you can't really clean it. You can easily clean the HP screens, and the quality of Dalite is light years above Optoma!
> 
> 
> My filtered ae900 and HP screen is quite nice, and was cheaper than the GW2 even with the $45 filter!



I think I'm going to do a DIY screen. I really don't want and don't need a retractable. I like DIY projects so I think I might make a screen this weekend. But now I've got lots of reading to do










Also, this isn't a 106" it's a 92" and it's still really wavy.


----------



## iggymama

You say you have SDE. Do you mean you see the texture of the screen? Do you see sparklies sometimes? Those anomalies will not go away in a fixed frame, so you probably want to be sure you like the material before you commit to a DIY.


----------



## millerwill

I'm probably displaying my inexperience with FP (this is the first one I've had in my home)--BUT, I currently have a 120" GWII on a 'trial', and to me it looks great! I don't see any screen 'texture' (probably just don't know what to look for!), waves, or dirty whites. I do see SDE because I'm sitting so close (12.5 ft away) with a 720p dlp projector (IN76), but I going to wait and get one of the new 1080p 1-chip dlp's, so I'm not concerned about that.


I do like the gray screen; does a good job with the low level of stray light I have. But frankly, I wasn't expecting to like this screen; had been assuming that I would want a Firehawk. though now I'm reconsidering, especially given the price. The only downside I can see is that I would not be able to ceiling mount the pj for best results (right now it is on a table ~ eye level), but I have been assuming that I would ceiling mount the pj that I finally get. Confused.


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm probably displaying my inexperience with FP (this is the first one I've had in my home)--BUT, I currently have a 120" GWII on a 'trial', and to me it looks great! I don't see any screen 'texture' (probably just don't know what to look for!), waves, or dirty whites. I do see SDE because I'm sitting so close (12.5 ft away) with a 720p dlp projector (IN76), but I going to wait and get one of the new 1080p 1-chip dlp's, so I'm not concerned about that.
> 
> 
> I do like the gray screen; does a good job with the low level of stray light I have. But frankly, I wasn't expecting to like this screen; had been assuming that I would want a Firehawk. though now I'm reconsidering, especially given the price. The only downside I can see is that I would not be able to ceiling mount the pj for best results (right now it is on a table ~ eye level), but I have been assuming that I would ceiling mount the pj that I finally get. Confused.



I don't see how you're possibly seeing screendoor and not texture but ... I'm glad you're enjoying it.


----------



## chipvideo

I have had my screen down since I bought it 7 months ago. Figured there was no reason to keep lowering it and closing as I feared that I would have the dreaded problem of it getting stuck in the wrong position.



Now I think it is time to clean it. What is the easiest way to clean it without damaging the surface?


Also would having this screen down for such a long time tend to make color shifts more noticable. My point is would I notice a improvement in quality if it was clean and free of microdust.


----------



## umdivx

For cleaning what I do is just take my air compressor and spry it down, that seems to do the trick.


As for others about the side effects to this screen, like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. For me this was my first FP setup and I absolutely love it. I bought this screen used. I does have waves, texture issues, ect... but like I said you get what you pay for.


for the money you can't beat the GW, yes the HP screen is damn near close but you have so downfalls to that screen as well. There is never a happy medium for anyone. We want everything for nothing. Thats just how ppl are.


As far as I am concerned this is a great screen for the beginners just getting into FP setups, the quality isn't the absolute best but to me for the money you can't beat it.


- Josh


----------



## dfojtik

I am new to FP and I wanted to know if there are any differnences between the GWI and the GWII other than the price? Is GWII that much better?


----------



## iggymama

Yes, the GW2 is better, but not perfect. I still saw the texture from 10' away, and some sparklies, but not as bad. Both have a lot of waves that made me sick when the camera pans.


----------



## Airboss

Just received my 120" Graywolf II today, will post pics and more info later in the week after I've had time to watch a few movies and make comparisons to the Da-Light HP.


Randy


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just received my 120" Graywolf II today, will post pics and more info later in the week after I've had time to watch a few movies and make comparisons to the Da-Light HP.Randy



Very much look forward to your impressions!


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For cleaning what I do is just take my air compressor and spry it down, that seems to do the trick.
> 
> 
> As for others about the side effects to this screen, like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. For me this was my first FP setup and I absolutely love it. I bought this screen used. I does have waves, texture issues, ect... but like I said you get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> for the money you can't beat the GW, yes the HP screen is damn near close but you have so downfalls to that screen as well. There is never a happy medium for anyone. We want everything for nothing. Thats just how ppl are.
> 
> 
> As far as I am concerned this is a great screen for the beginners just getting into FP setups, the quality isn't the absolute best but to me for the money you can't beat it.
> 
> 
> - Josh



I don't agree. I think for the money the HP screen is better, with a filter on the PJ. I paid $130 less for the HP screen than the same size GW2, with shipping, and the filter was only $45.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't agree. I think for the money the HP screen is better, with a filter on the PJ. I paid $130 less for the HP screen than the same size GW2, with shipping, and the filter was only $45.



link to the screen and filter please? Also I think that the HP screen might be a little too bright, and also how does it handel ambient light?


Also I you have to again relaize this is my first FP setup, and I got the GWI screen for $125 used and delivered to my home.


- Josh


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> link to the screen and filter please? Also I think that the HP screen might be a little too bright, and also how does it handel ambient light?
> 
> 
> Also I you have to again relaize this is my first FP setup, and I got the GWI screen for $125 used and delivered to my home.
> 
> 
> - Josh



Try Adorama for the filter, and pm or email Jason Turk at AV Science for the HP screen ([email protected]).


The HP screen blacks look good with the 81EF filter, although the colors are not perfect. I am awaiting the 81C, so I will post once I get my ae900 PJ tweaked again.


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I don't agree. I think for the money the HP screen is better, with a filter on the PJ. I paid $130 less for the HP screen than the same size GW2, with shipping, and the filter was only $45.



Just wanted to post a conflicting opinion - I found the GW(I) to be much better than the HP in my setup. I couldn't get over the elevated (worse) black level on the high power. Now, I didn't use a filter or anything, but the difference wasn't subtle. YMMV of course, and it all depends on the setup. Point is, I think different screens will be better for different people for different reasons, so it's worth it to check out the options yourself.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wanted to post a conflicting opinion - I found the GW(I) to be much better than the HP in my setup. I couldn't get over the elevated (worse) black level on the high power. Now, I didn't use a filter or anything, but the difference wasn't subtle. YMMV of course, and it all depends on the setup. Point is, I think different screens will be better for different people for different reasons, so it's worth it to check out the options yourself.



Yes, the blacks are better on the GW than the HP without a filter. That's why I got the filter and highly recommend it for anyone with an LCD PJ and a white screen. The GW is better at ambient light rejection. That's the only advantage that I can see. In every other respect the HP is a better screen. The blacks can be made almost as dark as the GW with the filter and good light control!


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Point is, I think different screens will be better for different people for different reasons, so it's worth it to check out the options yourself.



And that's the rub: it's very difficult to 'check out the options yourself', in your own room, without buying all the various screens (not very practical!). So we just read all the various opinions, see what we can, and try to make an educated guess!


So thanks for your input! What is the lighting situation in your room (external light?, wall color, etc.), and screen size, viewing distance, etc., to see how it approximates various ones of our set-ups.


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And that's the rub: it's very difficult to 'check out the options yourself', in your own room, without buying all the various screens (not very practical!). So we just read all the various opinions, see what we can, and try to make an educated guess!
> 
> 
> So thanks for your input! What is the lighting situation in your room (external light?, wall color, etc.), and screen size, viewing distance, etc., to see how it approximates various ones of our set-ups.



I used a sample kit from Da-lite when I checked out the HP (I had the GWI at the time, some Blackout cloth, and Carada samples as well). I know a sample swatch isn't a perfect way to do it, but it was good enough for me.


Anyhow, this is my room:

http://community.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV 


The diagram is old...couches have moved some to improve subwoofer performance, and a lot of the clutter in the back is reduced (PC/Desk gone), but it's essentially the same (equipment has changed slightly as well).


Anyhow it's 24.5x17.75x7.0' with a corner missing and a window with ambient light behind the seating which t casts light at the screen from directly behind the projector during the day...the GW helps with that a lot. 106" 16:9 Screen, viewed at ~13.7ft, dark Blue walls in front with dark grey ceiling, Tobshiba MT700 DLP pj. It's a dedicated HT so normal lighting isn't an issue. Did I cover it all?


----------



## millerwill

Jon O.: thanks much, and congrats on a very nice HT! Your room is a more dedicated HT than I have, but I can understand that the HP would not handle the light from behind the pj very well. I am trying out a GWII at present, and also have some of the HP samples. I actually like the GWII in many ways, but I'm afraid I am beginning to be conscious of the 'texture' in it that many people have mentioned. The HP samples certainly show that it doesn't get the blacks as 'black', though if I put the sample on a part of the pic that has 'black' and very light color, and focus my eyes just on the sample, the HP's contrast between the light and dark parts of the pic seems to be about the same as the GW (if that makes any sense!) It's all rather confusing, hard to draw any definite conclusion. I think I would prefer the GW if it didn't have this 'texture' issue.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, the blacks are better on the GW than the HP without a filter. That's why I got the filter and highly recommend it for anyone with an LCD PJ and a white screen. The GW is better at ambient light rejection. That's the only advantage that I can see. In every other respect the HP is a better screen. The blacks can be made almost as dark as the GW with the filter and good light control!




If you use a filter to correct the blacks but it throws the color off then what good is it? Your correcting one fault and creating another. On top of that, not all projectors have the ability to screw a filter on the lens, then you have to have some type of contraption sitting in front of your lens. Too much hassle for me.


I now have a 119" Da-light HP and a 120" Graywolf II, I will be testing both in the coming days, will also take some pics.


Here are my first impressions of the Graywolf II/Da_Light HP.....


Shipment protection:


GW II packing for shipment is no where near as nice as the Da-Light's packaging. The GW comes in a flimsy cardboard carton with only a couple of styrofoam spacers inside. The Da-Light is very well protected! I'll post pics of the packing materials later.


Screen Housing material:


GW II - very flimsy, easily dented

HP - Heavy duty, you'd have to hit it pretty hard to dent it. (See my previous photos).


Screen material:


GW II - thinner than the HP, has some waves (not noticeable to me when viewing).

Very thin bottom bar (3/4" compared to the HP 1 1/2" - you can see this in previous photos also)


-------------------------

120" GW II compared to my 106" GW I:


GW II screen surface looks even, although there are 3 horizontal lines approximately 1/8" wide and 8 " long toward the center bottom of the screen. Not noticeable when viewing movie.


The GW II retracts very easily.


Haven't noticed any sparklies yet, but the screen texture is visible (but not as much as the GW I).

--------------------


I have both the GW II and the HP hung so I can use them both at the same time. I viewed several scenes from a few different movies with half of each screen showing using the calibration for the HP screen - so far I prefer the GW II to the HP, here's why;


Until I re-arrange my setup I am viewing a 119" (or 120") image from 11 ft. Screen door is very evident when using the HP. With the GW II, only occasionally is it visible.


The deep dark blacks! There's just no getting around this for me, I prefer blacker blacks over whiter whites. The dark blacks add depth and just make the whole image look better, I can't live without them.


Last night I re-watched SW I TPM on the GW II and the HP. On the HP it did not look half as good as on the GW II. I mean, after all, outer space is black, not hazy black or sorta black.


Watching SW I on the GW II was like a breath of fresh air. For the past couple of weeks while watching movies on the HP I felt like something was missing, and it was... the blacks!


So, so far the GW II has my vote. I haven't given up on the HP yet, I will be viewing each screen with the same movie over the next week but right now the GW II is in the lead.


So, to recap.. for quality the HP has the GW beat hands down! Better material and better packing for shipment.


For certain movies (mostly bright outdoor type movies like "Open Range" the HP would have a slight edge on the GW. But... and this is a big but... for just about every other movie, if you like black blacks then then the GW II wins hands down.


The next few movies you watch make a mental note of how many times you see a bright sky compared to how many times you see shadow detail and black areas of the screen. You'll see that the shadow detail is just about in every scene and you may or may not even have any bright sky scenes (that's when I notice the screen texture).


This is just my opinion, I am by no means an expert. I would imagine if you are good at tweaking you could get the HP to have darker blacks while maintaining the proper color balance.


iggy, you mentioned cost, I paid 157.00 less for my 120" GW II than I did for my 119" HP, that's a pretty good difference, and as you stated, the GW II is better at ambient light rejection.


One thing to keep in mind, everyone has their on likes and dislikes. The best way to decide what looks the best to you is to view different screens. I know it's not practical for everyone to buy two or three screens, but if you know someone that has the screen you are interested in, go check it out.


Randy


----------



## millerwill

Randy, thanks so much for your detailed observations. I understand that everybody has different values in PQ, but yours seem very much along the lines of mine. I am actually surprised at how much I like the 120" GWII that I now have. I've tried to withhold judegement with the Dalite HP samples (~ 1 ft square) that I have, but what I've been able to see seems consistent with your comments. The Gray screen really does work well in my room (essentially no external light, but light-colored ceiling/walls), and if it's not going to be the GW, then it seems like it has to the the Firehawk, at many times the price. Compared to the cost of a Firehawk, one could buy BOTH a GW and an HP, using the HP during the day and the GW at night!


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Jon O.: thanks much, and congrats on a very nice HT! Your room is a more dedicated HT than I have, but I can understand that the HP would not handle the light from behind the pj very well. I am trying out a GWII at present, and also have some of the HP samples. I actually like the GWII in many ways, but I'm afraid I am beginning to be conscious of the 'texture' in it that many people have mentioned. The HP samples certainly show that it doesn't get the blacks as 'black', though if I put the sample on a part of the pic that has 'black' and very light color, and focus my eyes just on the sample, the HP's contrast between the light and dark parts of the pic seems to be about the same as the GW (if that makes any sense!) It's all rather confusing, hard to draw any definite conclusion. I think I would prefer the GW if it didn't have this 'texture' issue.



Regarding the texture - it bothered the hell out of me for awhile. Not that there was anything wrong with it, or that it was hiding detail. It was just...different...and I noticed it. I went from a super flat 4x8' sheet of parkland plastic to the GW1, and the change was hard to bear. But, the deep blacks and popping colors were fanstastic, so I stuck with it. I have to say, I'm glad I did. The texture doesn't bother me one bit anymore, and if anything it makes the image feel more film-like because it hides SDE very well. I've had the GW1 for a year now, and I don't want to change it for anything else yet (well, within reason). One of my buddy's has a Carada Grey screen, and while nice, the whites are dirtier and it doesn't have the pop of the GW. I think the GW is a great compromise screen. Now, I wish I had a Carada frame, but that's a different story


----------



## millerwill

Jon: again, very interesting obervations!


----------



## jonnyozero3

I'm here to please


----------



## savagekei05

Hey guys!


I have read somewhere that you guys were having problems getting the right GWII screen.


Where is the best place to order one?


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *savagekei05* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> I have read somewhere that you guys were having problems getting the right GWII screen.
> 
> 
> Where is the best place to order one?



savagekei05 you have a PM.


----------



## supraholic

Optoma 106" Widescreen Pull-Down Wall/Ceiling Projector Screen

Model: DS-9106PM


It says this pj is a cinema grade silver. Is that different than the greywolf? If so did besbuy discontinue their 106" greywolf.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraholic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Optoma 106" Widescreen Pull-Down Wall/Ceiling Projector Screen
> 
> Model: DS-9106PM
> 
> 
> It says this pj is a cinema grade silver. Is that different than the greywolf? If so did besbuy discontinue their 106" greywolf.



It should be the GW1 (definately not the GW2). They call it silver, but it's grey. I would not recommend the GW1 unless you are at least 13' from the screen. The texture and sparklies are quite noticeable.


----------



## supraholic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It should be the GW1 (definately not the GW2). They call it silver, but it's grey. I would not recommend the GW1 unless you are at least 13' from the screen. The texture and sparklies are quite noticeable.



Yeah your right its probably gw1. Leave it to bestbuy to call it a white-matt.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *supraholic* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah your right its probably gw1. Leave it to bestbuy to call it a white-matt.



Didn't they call it silver?


----------



## Anthony

Question regarding GWII and off-axis projecting.


The ideal setup in my room is the projector about 3 feet right of the screen center, 18 foot throw onto a 92" or larger screen. It would be on a shelf atop the gear rack, roughly even in height with the top of the screen. It will be a Sanyo PLV-Z4, and this seems well within the lens shifting options.


Due to the retro-reflective nature of the screen, won't this arrangement only put the high gain back towards the projector?


Seats are about as wide as the screen, so very little off-axis viewing, but according to a couple of calculators, I need at least 1.5 gain to be able to watch with the dim room lights on (i.e. Super Bowl party).


Just looking for some advice or insight here. I've seen a GW I and was impressed.


Thanks in advance,

A


----------



## dubs29

Hey folks,


I have a quandry I hope you can help me with. I recently purchased a projector and a graywolf screen from a big box store. Well the screen that came in the box was the wrong screen. So I complained to Optoma's people and they shipped me another screen to replace the wrong one. Wel I had also contacted the Big Box store and they said they wanted me to ship the screen and the projector back to them and then wait and see if they still had it in stock they would reship new stuff to me. Well Yesterday I got a new GWII screen shipped to me from the BigBox store. I am sure they are going to want the old screen I had complained about getting from them back. Well as I stated I already had that handled by Optoma. So now I have Two 92in GWII screens. What I am suggesting is if someone out there has a new 92in panaview white matte or gw1 that is new and wants to maybe switch it out with this new GWII I might be inclined to work it out. You need to live near the Lubbock, TX area though. The Big Box has not contacted me yet for the return but I know it will happen soon. So long story short if someone is interested, then contact me hear by pm and I'll see what I can do. I hate to send back a perfectly good GWII when it was the Big Box's fault in the first place. Let me know.


----------



## supraholic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Didn't they call it silver?



First they call it a matt white


"Bring the theater home when you watch movies on this 106" diagonal, soft, matte-white widescreen. Mounted flush to the ceiling or wall, you will enjoy crisp, clear images. "


Then they say its silver.


"High-contrast, cinema-grade silver screen for very good black levels, brilliant whites and deep colors"


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Regarding the texture - it bothered the hell out of me for awhile. Not that there was anything wrong with it, or that it was hiding detail. It was just...different...and I noticed it. I went from a super flat 4x8' sheet of parkland plastic to the GW1, and the change was hard to bear. But, the deep blacks and popping colors were fanstastic, so I stuck with it. I have to say, I'm glad I did. The texture doesn't bother me one bit anymore, and if anything it makes the image feel more film-like because it hides SDE very well. I've had the GW1 for a year now, and I don't want to change it for anything else yet (well, within reason). One of my buddy's has a Carada Grey screen, and while nice, the whites are dirtier and it doesn't have the pop of the GW. I think the GW is a great compromise screen. Now, I wish I had a Carada frame, but that's a different story



Regarding the texture of the GW II, I spent the weekend viewing movies on my new GW II and without a doubt the texture is a lot less noticeable than on the GW I. You can still see it but I found myself having to 'look' for it most of the time.


Other observations of the new screen... there are waves, and even though I was looking for them, I only noticed them once during a very long panning scene. As mentioned earlier there are a couple of thin lines toward the bottom center of my screen that are darker than the rest of the screen, I did not notice these at all while viewing any movies.


The materials used in construction of GW II look and feel cheaper than those of the Da-Light HP, but of course GW II cost less than the HP.


I didn't take any comparison photos of the screens this weekend because I wanted to spend the time watching movies, but I did get some shots of the boxes the screen were shipped in, which I will post later. Da-light has much better packaging as you will see when I post the photos.


Randy


----------



## iggymama

Maybe you can find the GW2 cheaper than the HP online, but will you get the screen you ordered? Is it worth the hassle of returning it, and possibly paying for shipping? I got mine at Staples.com becasue I could return it to the store. The HP was not available from any B&M store, so I got a good deal from Jason at AVS. I paid a lot less for the HP than the GW2. How much is your frustration worth? I paid less than 300 for a 106" HP. I have no complaints, other than needing the filter, which took a while to tweak the PJ for, but now I am happy. I think a matte white screen with the filter would look fine. I ordered one for my RV, so I will find out. I think the HP does wash out more with ambient light than a matte white, from the samples I looked at. I got a 60x60" 'matte white' screen thru Staples, but it looks like HCMW - kinda sparkly and textured. I don't like the texture. It reminds me of the GW. I put up samples of the DaLite HP and Matte White, and I like the look of their matte white better (it didn't wash out with a table lamp as much as the HP)!


----------



## Airboss

Ok, here are the photos of the shipping packages for the Da-Lite HP and the Graywolf II. There's no doubt the HP is packed better, but, if you prefer the image the GW II has over the image of the HP you have to accept this and take the risks of receiving a damaged GW II.


Both packages, GW II & HP, notice the HP has 'Fragile' sticker on it.










Close up of the inside of the HP box, notice the double thickness.










Inside of the GW II box (it did have some styroform also).










I still prefer the GW II over the HP for my setup, just wish the GW II had the same quality materials that the HP uses although I'm sure it would cost more.


I've though about taking both screens apart and putting the GW II screen in the HP casing and vice versa. The GW II would have to be trimmed a little since it is 120" vice the 119" HP.


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have no complaints, other than needing the filter, which took a while to tweak the PJ for, but now I am happy. I think the HP does wash out more with ambient light than a matte white, from the samples I looked at.



How does the HP + filter compare to the GWII (apart from screen texture); does it do the blacks and contrast as well? Also, I presume that if one's pj has an adjustible iris, that one could simply close down the iris with the HP if it were too bright, essentially doing the same thing as a filter; is my understanding of this correct? Or does the iris do something better than the filter?


----------



## millerwill




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I still prefer the GW II over the HP for my setup, just wish the GW II had the same quality materials that the HP uses although I'm sure it would cost more.
> 
> 
> I've though about taking both screens apart and putting the GW II screen in the HP casing and vice versa. The GW II would have to be trimmed a little since it is 120" vice the 119" HP.



I imagine that the fixed-frame version of the GWII would perform better--i.e., no wrinkes, and maybe even better 'texture'--than the pulldown version, but it is more expensive. I have asked here a couple of times if anyone has tried the fixed-frame version but gotten no replies; it seems that everyone getting the GW wants a budget screen and is not interested in a higher priced version.


----------



## easylistener

I have a manual pull down 92" grey wolf II screen for sale. It is a 16:9 ratio and only 1 week old. PM me if you want


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I imagine that the fixed-frame version of the GWII would perform better--i.e., no wrinkes, and maybe even better 'texture'--than the pulldown version, but it is more expensive. I have asked here a couple of times if anyone has tried the fixed-frame version but gotten no replies; it seems that everyone getting the GW wants a budget screen and is not interested in a higher priced version.



If I had a dedicated HT room I would prefer a fixed screen but since my room is not only dedicated to HT I must use a pull down.


----------



## millerwill

Airboss: Your posts are extremely useful since you have the rare opportunity of viewing both the GWII and HP side by side. I have a 120" GWII at present, I'm quite suprised at how much I like it. On pans of open skies, etc., I do see the 'texture' that everybody talks about, but I agree with you in how much I like the rich blacks and good contrast. I only have some small HP samples, so it's very hard to compare; so I'm best reading your comments with extreme interst.


To get a better feeling of your situation, can tell (or remind) me of your room situation, i.e., whether or not there is much external light, or only light ceiling/walls. Also which pj you have, and any other relevant parameters.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How does the HP + filter compare to the GWII (apart from screen texture); does it do the blacks and contrast as well? Also, I presume that if one's pj has an adjustible iris, that one could simply close down the iris with the HP if it were too bright, essentially doing the same thing as a filter; is my understanding of this correct? Or does the iris do something better than the filter?



I'd say the HP has pretty decent blacks, maybe not as dark as the GW2, but pretty good with the filter and proper tweaks to maximize the contrast ratio and black levels, while providing good shadow details. I have the Panny ae900, which has an auto-iris, so for my PJ, closing the iris is not possible. One advantage of the GW screens is much better rejection of ambient lighting. I ordered a matte white Dalite screen for my RV, so I will do some comparisons when I get it.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To get a better feeling of your situation, can tell (or remind) me of your room situation, i.e., whether or not there is much external light, or only light ceiling/walls. Also which pj you have, and any other relevant parameters.



millerwill, I have complete light control in my room via black velvet drapes on the two side walls and black velvet masking around the screen. The rear wall is a dark blue. The way the room is set up the lens of my projector, a Sharp DT-300, is 11 ft from the screen and about a foot above my head when seated (the lens is centered on screen center. I'm projecting a 120" image, using econo mode for lamp setting.


I will be changing the setup in a couple of weeks and will be moving the projector back to a distance of 14 ft, as well as moving my seating back a couple of feet. Not sure how this will affect the brightness, I may have to use the regular mode vice econo mode for projection from that distance. I will have both the GW II and the HP mounted one behind the other so that I can do some comparison testing.


Right now I am very pleased with the GW II and am anxious to see what happens when I re-arrange the setup. If you have any other questions just let me know.


----------



## millerwill

Airboss: Wow, sounds like a very nice room, quite a bit more 'optomized' than mine (I can exclude essentially all external light, but do have light-colored ceiling/walls). I'm primarily interested in a gray screen because it will reduce the effect of reflected light, but this is certainly not an issue for you. I do like the way the 120" GWII (that I'm trying out at present) handles reflected light, but I'm afraid that I do see the coarse 'texture' that so many refer to. For a gray screen other than the GW, the best choice would be a Firehawk, quite a bit pricier.


With your room, do you really need a gray screen? Is your projector not so good with black level, so it is to compensate for this? (I'm a novie in FP, still trying to educate myself.) If the HP is too bright, what about just a good white screen, e.g. a Carada BW, some Dalite, etc.?


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> With your room, do you really need a gray screen? Is your projector not so good with black level, so it is to compensate for this? (I'm a novie in FP, still trying to educate myself.) If the HP is too bright, what about just a good white screen, e.g. a Carada BW, some Dalite, etc.?



I'm like you, new at this. Since I don't have a room I can dedicate for a HT I use the curtains to convert my living room into a theater. The 106" GW I is the first screen I bought and I liked it a lot, except for the screen texture. After viewing it for awhile I realized I wanted a bigger screen, especially for movies formatted in 2.35:1. I read about the HP and decided to get one of those and then the 120" GW II became available. I really missed the blacks of the GW I when viewing the HP that's why I got the GW II. For me the texture of the GW II isn't a factor, it's only noticeable occasionally.


I'll have to see what the picture looks like when the projector is moved further back. Since the DT-300 is not one of the brighter projectors I'm not sure how the image will look. I'll find out the first week in Sept. once I change my setup. I may need the HP for the added brightness.


----------



## esaleris

Just to let everybody know, bestbuy.com and compusa.com carry the Graywolf II now, for $180 and $200 respectively. However, BB charges shipping, CompUSA doesn't. (Search for "Panoview" on BB's site; search for "339888" - the SKU - on CompUSA's)


I got a 92" shipped to me from BestBuy. My reasoning was that if it was broken or whatever, I'd just take it to the local store to return. So far, though, the exterior is perfect - no dings, no dents, no scratches. Ordered it Sunday, arrived Wednesday from OH via UPS.


It is the white casing, though, if that bothers some of you. I haven't had time to hang it up and get a chance to evaluate the image yet - that's for this weekend!


CompUSA will also ship you the unit, for cheaper, but their online return policy states that sometimes, depending on item, they will make you mail the until back the way it came for an exchange; other times they'll take it in-store. I didn't want to take that chance.


Another notable retailers that carry it is Buy.com, but that's $250 right there.


----------



## umdivx

Visual Apex: http://www.visualapex.com/accessorie...a&Type=Screens 


one of the forum sponsors.


- Josh


----------



## iggymama

CompUSA will not take returns on the GW2 - I called them before I got mine at Staples. I thought BB only had the GW1. DS-9106PM is the GW1, not the GW2. They don't advertise the GW2 on their web site. Are you sure it's not the GW1? Does the case of the screen itself say Gray Wolf 2?


----------



## coolcoach2u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One advantage of the GW screens is much better rejection of ambient lighting. I ordered a matte white Dalite screen for my RV, so I will do some comparisons when I get it.



Iggymama, I also have the Panny 900, I am in the process of hooking it up. It will be mounted on a counter stand about 15 feet from the screen. Seating distance will be 7 to 11 feet. I want a 106" 16X9 screen.


The room I am using is my family room, 16X20, hardwood floors, open to Nook, open to dining room. At night, I can have total darkness, during the day, there will be ambient light. Do you feel the Grey Wolf II would be a good fit for the Panny 900 and my setup?


One more question, if I decide to go with an electric screen, I would like to get the Draper Salara Plug and Play 106" screen, so I do not have to worry about an electrician. (it is my understanding that with other screens such as the Da Lite High Power, an electrician is needed for wiring). If I do go with the Draper Salara Plug and Play would I be better off getting the matte white or high contrast grey?


Thank you.


Doug


----------



## esaleris




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CompUSA will not take returns on the GW2 - I called them before I got mine at Staples. I thought BB only had the GW1. DS-9106PM is the GW1, not the GW2. They don't advertise the GW2 on their web site. Are you sure it's not the GW1? Does the case of the screen itself say Gray Wolf 2?



No, if you go to their website and search for "panoview" you'll find it. Yeah, it has the nifty GrayWolf II logo on it - the first thing I looked for when I got it.


----------



## iggymama

I searched for projector screens and it didn't come up. I searched for panoview and it did! Good price too! Interesting...


Coolcoach2u, the GW2 should be fine for the second row, but I think the texture will be too noticeable for the first row at only 7 feet. It bothered me at 10 feet.


I have not seen the Draper screens. You should research the forums. I assume their electric screen has a standard AC plug you can use an extension cord with (plug and play)? My High Power is not electric, so I can't say. You would have to research this online. Or call Jason Turk at AVScience. He is very knowledgeable and sells DaLite screens for good prices.


----------



## coolcoach2u

Airboss, after reading your posts, I am seriously considering purchasing the Grey Wolf II. Here are some facts: seating distance of 11 feet, Panasonic PT-AE900U, the projector can be mounted at a throw distance of 15 feet, or 20 feet. I have three questions. I hope you or others can help answer. Here are the questions:


If I mount the projector at 15 feet with the seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?


If I mount the projector at 20 feet with a seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?


For my setup of the Panasonic PT-AE900U, seating distance of 11 feet, which of the above throw distances and screen size is best?


Thank you.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coolcoach2u* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Airboss, after reading your posts, I am seriously considering purchasing the Grey Wolf II. Here are some facts: seating distance of 11 feet, Panasonic PT-AE900U, the projector can be mounted at a throw distance of 15 feet, or 20 feet. I have three questions. I hope you or others can help answer. Here are the questions:
> 
> 
> If I mount the projector at 15 feet with the seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?
> 
> 
> If I mount the projector at 20 feet with a seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?
> 
> 
> For my setup of the Panasonic PT-AE900U, seating distance of 11 feet, which of the above throw distances and screen size is best?
> 
> 
> Thank you.



coolcoach2u, screen size and seating distance are determined by personal preference, however there are some guidelines you can use. Here is a very good article which discusses this issue, Your Screen: How big should it be? and here's a link to a Viewing Distance Calculator that may be helpful. You can also find many threads on the subject here on AVS.


I'm not familiar your projector but I can tell you what I see with my projector, a Sharp DT-300. I'm seating 11 ft from a 120" image and I find it acceptable when viewing on the GW II, but not optimum. With viewing on the Da-Light HP the screen door effect is very visible and I find this very annoying and unacceptable.


With the GrayWolf II the screen door effect is barely visible, but occasionally, I do notice the screen texture. I prefer the GW II over the HP because I find the SDE to be more annoying than occasionally seeing the screen texture. Additional benefits of the GW II; cost, blacker blacks and better ambient light rejection, but keep in mind the GW II is definitely not as well made as the HP and Optoma's quality control leaves a lot to be desired. Even with that in mind I did not have any problem deciding to get a GW II.


Over the Labour Day weekend I will be rearranging my setup and moving my projector and seating back a couple of feet further from the screen. Once I do that I will re-evaluate both screens.


As I said, right now I prefer the GW II because, for all practical purposes, it eliminates the SDE, gives me blacker blacks and has better ambient light rejection than the HP.


I know I did not give you a specific answer to your questions but hopefully the information I provided will help you decide. For what it's worth, I origianlly purchased a 106" GW I and after viewing it for a few months decided I wanted a larger screen.... now I'm starting to feel the same way about the 120" screen.


----------



## iggymama

Airboss, what PJ are you using? I see no SDE with my ae900 on the HP screen.


----------



## iggymama




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coolcoach2u* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Airboss, after reading your posts, I am seriously considering purchasing the Grey Wolf II. Here are some facts: seating distance of 11 feet, Panasonic PT-AE900U, the projector can be mounted at a throw distance of 15 feet, or 20 feet. I have three questions. I hope you or others can help answer. Here are the questions:
> 
> 
> If I mount the projector at 15 feet with the seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?
> 
> 
> If I mount the projector at 20 feet with a seating distance of 11 feet, what screen size should I buy?
> 
> 
> For my setup of the Panasonic PT-AE900U, seating distance of 11 feet, which of the above throw distances and screen size is best?
> 
> 
> Thank you.



Are you still planning a first row at 7 feet? I doubt SDE would be a consideration for you with the ae900. I would agree with Airboss on the size. At least 106", and maybe 120" would be nice.


----------



## ctviggen

What's the gain of a GWII? According to:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm 


At 106", there's barely enough recommended image brightness for dark rooms with a screen gain of 1.0. Anything less, and this particular calculator says there's not enought brightness.


----------



## umdivx

I have an AE900, with the 106" GW1. I am sitting at around 9.5 to 10 feet, throw distance is about 10.5 feet (projector is just above my head) not the most ideal setup but works for what I have. (check out my signature for pictures)


But anyways I am throwing slightly under the full 106" of the screen, at times its a little anoying but for my first setup, and the fact that I got the screen used I can't complaine.


Anyways definately use the projectorcentral calculator its the best guide you can ever go by it'll definately work for what you need.


- Josh


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's the gain of a GWII? According to:
> 
> http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm
> 
> 
> At 106", there's barely enough recommended image brightness for dark rooms with a screen gain of 1.0. Anything less, and this particular calculator says there's not enought brightness.



1.8 is the gain, however the gain properties of the screen only work when you do a coffee table or shelf mounted setup, if you are doing a ceiling mounted setup the gain features don't work. I notice this every time I stand up from the couch the image gets brighter the more I stand up, and darker the more I sit down.


- Josh


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Airboss, what PJ are you using? I see no SDE with my ae900 on the HP screen.



iggyman, I'm using a Sharp DT-300 and sitting 11 ft. from the screen. On my 106" GW 1 SDE was not noticeable. On the 119" HP SDE is noticeable just about all the time, especially in bright scenes. On the 120" GW II SDE is only barely noticeable if the scene is bright and I'm looking for it, otherwises I don't notice it at all.


----------



## iggymama

I think that PJ has more SDE than the ae900 (according to one review I just looked at), which has very little. It's also brighter, right? These things can make a big difference when comparing screens.


----------



## ctviggen

Josh,


Any idea how much relative decrease in gain for a ceiling mount? I ask because I basically have to ceiling mount a projector due to room considerations, and I'm thinking of both the Panasonic 900 and the GWII. (Although by the time I'm ready to buy, there might be a better projector on the market for not much more money.)


Bob


----------



## iggymama

It would probably be too dark for that combination.


----------



## umdivx

Can't really give you an exact number on what the gain decrease will be, but I can tell you its definately notiable.


I am going to be turning my GW1 screen into a fixed frame setup, over the winter, and I want to see if I can invert my screen to see if that helps or not, I bought it will but since I am turning it into a fixed frame setup (mostly to fix the wave issues) it won't hurt to test out my theory.


- Josh


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can't really give you an exact number on what the gain decrease will be, but I can tell you its definately notiable.
> 
> 
> I am going to be turning my GW1 screen into a fixed frame setup, over the winter, and I want to see if I can invert my screen to see if that helps or not, I bought it will but since I am turning it into a fixed frame setup (mostly to fix the wave issues) it won't hurt to test out my theory.
> 
> 
> - Josh



Inverting the screen won't help. The screen reflects light back to the source no matter which way it's oriented. Rule of thumb - when it comes to retro-reflective screens the projector always has the best seat in the house.


----------



## umdivx

oh well.... but like i said the fixed frame setup is mostly to fix the the wave issues. I am planning to do a 1/2" square metal tube frame, hopefully self tensioning, still trying to figure out my ideas, as I've got acess to both a tig and mig welder, chop saw, ect.... so hopfully it'll work out the way I want.


- Josh


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think that PJ has more SDE than the ae900 (according to one review I just looked at), which has very little. It's also brighter, right? These things can make a big difference when comparing screens.



iggy, actually it's quite a bit dimmer. The DT-300 is rated at 700 ANSI lumens compared to the AE900's 1100 ANSI lumens.


----------



## aaroen

Can someone tell me the difference between the Opoma panoview 106 grey screen that BB sells and the Optoma panoview greywolf II 106. They seem to have the same specs but the greywolf II is about $100 more and has the black borders. They both say gain 1.8 high contrast. Different model number also.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aaroen* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can someone tell me the difference between the Opoma panoview 106 grey screen that BB sells and the Optoma panoview greywolf II 106. They seem to have the same specs but the greywolf II is about $100 more and has the black borders. They both say gain 1.8 high contrast. Different model number also.



the BB is is the GWI.



- Josh


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Airboss* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> iggy, actually it's quite a bit dimmer. The DT-300 is rated at 700 ANSI lumens compared to the AE900's 1100 ANSI lumens.



I have the DT-300 also and while it's not "the brightest projector on the block" I think the 700 ANSI lumens rating is a little shy of accurate. I had a 4805 prior to this and the Sharp is brighter (on full mode, not Eco). I've been wanting to scratch my upgrade itch (darn these forums!) and get a Z4 or AE900U but the stupid Sharp throws up such a sweet picture time after time that I keep questioning my motives.


I did try this unit (mine is ceiling mounted) with the GW1 and the results were horrible.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the BB is is the GWI.
> 
> 
> 
> - Josh



Actually they do have the GW II, here and here. 


Do a search on BB site for 'Optoma'.


----------



## Airboss




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Itsdon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have the DT-300 also and while it's not "the brightest projector on the block" I think the 700 ANSI lumens rating is a little shy of accurate. I had a 4805 prior to this and the Sharp is brighter (on full mode, not Eco). I've been wanting to scratch my upgrade itch (darn these forums!) and get a Z4 or AE900U but the stupid Sharp throws up such a sweet picture time after time that I keep questioning my motives.
> 
> 
> I did try this unit (mine is ceiling mounted) with the GW1 and the results were horrible.



I agree with you on this Itsdon, the Sharp does throw up a sweet picture! On the HP screen it throws a very bright image, even in econo mode (which I use 99% of the time). Mine is mounted where the center of the lens is centered on the center of the screen, in a seated position my eyes are about 1 foot lower than the lens center.


----------



## coolcoach2u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Are you still planning a first row at 7 feet? I doubt SDE would be a consideration for you with the ae900. I would agree with Airboss on the size. At least 106", and maybe 120" would be nice.



Iggymama, there will be no seven feet seating distance. All seating will be from 11 feet. However, I do need decent viewing angles for the seats on the side. Do you think I should go with a grey contrast screen such as the Grey Wolf, or a white screen such as the High Power? I do not want to hassle with tweaking and filters. Also, depending on what screen you recommend, what should the mounting distance be for the Panny ae900, 15 feet or 20 feet?


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coolcoach2u* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Iggymama, there will be no seven feet seating distance. All seating will be from 11 feet. However, I do need decent viewing angles for the seats on the side. Do you think I should go with a grey contrast screen such as the Grey Wolf, or a white screen such as the High Power? I do not want to hassle with tweaking and filters. Also, depending on what screen you recommend, what should the mounting distance be for the Panny ae900, 15 feet or 20 feet?



use the calc man!!!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm 


from that calc if you went with the 106" GW2 you'd want a throw distance of 10.7' to 21.4'


then for a 120" GW2 you'll want between 12.1' to 24.3'


does that help?


- Josh


----------



## VolleyballGuy2U




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> use the calc man!!!
> 
> http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm
> 
> 
> from that calc if you went with the 106" GW2 you'd want a throw distance of 10.7' to 21.4'
> 
> 
> then for a 120" GW2 you'll want between 12.1' to 24.3'
> 
> 
> does that help?
> 
> 
> - Josh



Thank you for the calculator link.


----------



## coolcoach2u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> use the calc man!!!
> 
> http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...ulator-pro.htm
> 
> 
> from that calc if you went with the 106" GW2 you'd want a throw distance of 10.7' to 21.4'
> 
> 
> then for a 120" GW2 you'll want between 12.1' to 24.3'
> 
> 
> does that help?
> 
> 
> - Josh



Yes, that helps thanks.







I was also asking about seating distance. Iggymama owns a Panny 900 and she has tried several different scenarios, so I wanted hear her opinions and opinions from others on screen size, seating distance, and throw distance specific to the Panny 900.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *coolcoach2u* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, that helps thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was also asking about seating distance. Iggymama owns a Panny 900 and she has tried several different scenarios, so I wanted hear her opinions and opinions from others on screen size, seating distance, and throw distance specific to the Panny 900.



Ah well from my experience, I've got 106" GW1 and the Panny 900. I am sitting around 9.5 - 10 feet and I think its perfect, no SDE, or anything. My only gripe is the waves in teh screen, and teh fact that it's not an absolute bright screen becuase I am doing a ceiling mount. But hey I can't complain as this is my first FP setup and I got eveything cheaper than what I paid for my 42" sony LCD hdtv a year ago.


- Josh


----------



## coolcoach2u




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ah well from my experience, I've got 106" GW1 and the Panny 900. I am sitting around 9.5 - 10 feet and I think its perfect, no SDE, or anything. My only gripe is the waves in teh screen, and teh fact that it's not an absolute bright screen becuase I am doing a ceiling mount. But hey I can't complain as this is my first FP setup and I got eveything cheaper than what I paid for my 42" sony LCD hdtv a year ago.
> 
> 
> - Josh



I am curious how do you have your Panny connected? Are you using HDMI or Component? Also, how are you running the cables, in the wall, across the floor, raceways...?


----------



## ctviggen

If you're really considering a 120 inch screen, you might think about a higher power screen (if you can afford it). That's a large screen, and the Panny 900, while not too shabby in the light output department, is going to need help. Also consider mounting and seating position, as this affects the gain.


----------



## irallamecniv




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ah well from my experience, I've got 106" GW1 and the Panny 900. I am sitting around 9.5 - 10 feet and I think its perfect, no SDE, or anything. My only gripe is the waves in teh screen, and teh fact that it's not an absolute bright screen becuase I am doing a ceiling mount. But hey I can't complain as this is my first FP setup and I got eveything cheaper than what I paid for my 42" sony LCD hdtv a year ago.
> 
> 
> - Josh



I have the same set up. 106" GW with the Panny 900. I sit around 10' back. I agree that the waves are bothersome, which is why I'm going to replace it with a High Power. Not only that, but the texture is starting to really get to me. I need something with a little more pop.


----------



## irallamecniv

How can I safely put samples of other screen material on my graywolf? I have a 12"x12" sample of high power screen material, and I was wondering if I could use electrical tape or something to stick it on the GW without damaging the GW?


----------



## Honu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *irallamecniv* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How can I safely put samples of other screen material on my graywolf? I have a 12"x12" sample of high power screen material, and I was wondering if I could use electrical tape or something to stick it on the GW without damaging the GW?



dont tape it










try this get some other material and tape it to that then roll down your GW a few inches get the top of the other material started then go back up this way the other material is against the black part of your GW and wont hurt it then your material hangs down in front of the screen

this is how I tested samples and I just used other samples as the material I taped to










ALSO as I am sure you are aware you really need the complete screen in front of you to really see things clearly


----------



## DanLW

I'm considering the 92" GWII. I'll probably end up frame mounting it in the end. But I do have some questions, which I suppose is why I'm posting here.


For those with a ceiling mounted projector, does the screen seem to have a uniform brightness, or does the top/bottom appear brighter than the bottom/top? Since I'll be ceiling mounted, I understand the gain will be pretty much 1. So, is it worth it for this setup, or should I just get some parkland, paint it with Behr SilverScreen, and use that?


----------



## amberry22

Hello,


This is my first post, so pardon my "newbieness." I just purchased a Optoma H31 from VisualApex that should be arriving on Tuesday. Does anyone have this same projector (or a very similar one at the least) and a GreyWolf 120" screen? I will be mounting it overhead about 15 to 17 feet from the screen and sitting about the same distance from the screen. The projector should be about 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 feet from the floor. The room will be almost all dark but rarely there may be ambient light. For the most part it is a controlled enviornment though.


My question is is the 120" too big for my projector or should I go with the 106" GreyWolf? Also, because of the reflective surface, will a 120" or even a 106" inch GreyWolf be too dark because of the loss of gain from mounting the projector overhead?


The specs of my projector can be obtained from VisualApex's website.


Thanks guys!!!


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amberry22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> 
> This is my first post, so pardon my "newbieness." I just purchased a Optoma H31 from VisualApex that should be arriving on Tuesday. Does anyone have this same projector (or a very similar one at the least) and a GreyWolf 120" screen? I will be mounting it overhead about 15 to 17 feet from the screen and sitting about the same distance from the screen. The projector should be about 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 feet from the floor. The room will be almost all dark but rarely there may be ambient light. For the most part it is a controlled enviornment though.
> 
> 
> My question is is the 120" too big for my projector or should I go with the 106" GreyWolf? Also, because of the reflective surface, will a 120" or even a 106" inch GreyWolf be too dark because of the loss of gain from mounting the projector overhead?
> 
> 
> The specs of my projector can be obtained from VisualApex's website.
> 
> 
> Thanks guys!!!



Nice purchase, if you havn't already check out www.projectorcentral.com 

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-H31.htm 


from there check out the calculator on the site, it will allow you to determin the optimal screen size for your distance.


based off of what I did for you, with that projector, running a 1.61 zoom, doing a throw distance of 15 feet, you could easily do 120" screen however, it recomends running a higher gain screen, even though the GW is a higher gain screen (1.8) the gain properties of the screen only work when the projector is coffe table mounted or shelf mounted.


A ceiling mount setup for this screen negates the gain properties of the screen.


- Josh


----------



## amberry22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice purchase, if you havn't already check out
> 
> 
> from there check out the calculator on the site, it will allow you to determin the optimal screen size for your distance.
> 
> 
> based off of what I did for you, with that projector, running a 1.61 zoom, doing a throw distance of 15 feet, you could easily do 120" screen however, it recomends running a higher gain screen, even though the GW is a higher gain screen (1.8) the gain properties of the screen only work when the projector is coffe table mounted or shelf mounted.
> 
> 
> A ceiling mount setup for this screen negates the gain properties of the screen.
> 
> 
> - Josh






Thanks for your reply Josh. It is great to know it is possible, however it concerns me that the GreyWolf may not be my best option because I will be mounting it overhead. Is there an alternative that is withing the same price range, but more appropriate gain for my setup? Or is it possible to still stick with the GreyWolf?


Thanks!


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amberry22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for your reply Josh. It is great to know it is possible, however it concerns me that the GreyWolf may not be my best option because I will be mounting it overhead. Is there an alternative that is withing the same price range, but more appropriate gain for my setup? Or is it possible to still stick with the GreyWolf?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



It is definately still possible to use the screen, you'd just need to mount the projector closer to the screen.


As far as alternative screens, there really isn't any Gray colored screens in this price range. However a few ppl are starting to use the Da lite Model B Hi Power (aka HP) screens. Jason at AVS here quoted me at just above $200 for a 52" x 92" or 106" diagnal.


Granted this screen isn't a gray screen so the colors and black level boost you get with a gray screen doesn't happen with the HP screen. But you can counter this by using a lense filter.


- Josh


----------



## amberry22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is definately still possible to use the screen, you'd just need to mount the projector closer to the screen.
> 
> 
> As far as alternative screens, there really isn't any Gray colored screens in this price range. However a few ppl are starting to use the Da lite Model B Hi Power (aka HP) screens. Jason at AVS here quoted me at just above $200 for a 52" x 92" or 106" diagnal.
> 
> 
> Granted this screen isn't a gray screen so the colors and black level boost you get with a gray screen doesn't happen with the HP screen. But you can counter this by using a lense filter.
> 
> 
> - Josh





Josh,


When you say "closer," do you mean how close the lens is from the screen (i.e. mounting it at say 12 feet from screen instead of 15) OR moving the projector down a bit vertically to center the lens with the screen as much as possible to get a better gain? Would both work, or just one of the two changes I just mentioned work independently?


Also, I guess I could find some sort of floor stand/shelf that sits the projector 5 feet off the floor and still shoots it from 15 to 17 feet just barley over the seating area if that is the only solution. Would this do the trick more efficiently and give me back a much higher gain since I will be sitting at about 3 1/2 feet on a sofa? In essence, I would be dropping the projector down at a 4 foot mount from the ceiling instead of a flush


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amberry22* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Josh,
> 
> 
> When you say "closer," do you mean how close the lens is from the screen (i.e. mounting it at say 12 feet from screen instead of 15) OR moving the projector down a bit vertically to center the lens with the screen as much as possible to get a better gain? Would both work, or just one of the two changes I just mentioned work independently?



Moving the projector closer to the screen, IE shift the whole unit closer, as in 11 - 13 feet instead of 15 feet from the screen.


As far as moving it down vertically, I am not quite sure. I will leave that up to other ppl here, the only thing I can see as a down side would be hot spotting. But I could be wrong there.



> Quote:
> Also, I guess I could find some sort of floor stand/shelf that sits the projector 5 feet off the floor and still shoots it from 15 to 17 feet just barley over the seating area if that is the only solution. Would this do the trick more efficiently and give me back a much higher gain since I will be sitting at about 3 1/2 feet on a sofa? In essence, I would be dropping the projector down at a 4 foot mount from the ceiling instead of a flush


----------



## amberry22

You have been more than helpful Josh! I think I am going to try to find either a stand mount or highly adjustible ceiling mount to try and do the trick. I hope that sitting the projector at 5 feet from the floor and 15' - 17' back will render my setup effective, expecially for the 120" GW screen that I will likely be purchasing within the week.


----------



## millerwill

Yes, you do want the GW to be mounted 'low', just above (and behind) the viewers heads, for optimal performance. It is a retro-reflective screen, just like the Da-lite HighPower, and its optimal location is the same.


----------



## rbastedo

FYI I contacted Optoma and they told me the Graywolf screen has no Optoma recommended methods for cleaning it.


I have an issue where there was something sprayed on part of my screen, seemed organic. Maybe one of the dogs shook his head & sprayed slime or maybe it was one of the kids having some kind of food fight.


So I tried the mild soap & water method.

This left a smudge.


So I tried the oxygen peroxide method.

Smudge still there.


Next I guess I'll try the "get a new screen" method.


Unless someone here has a better suggestion.


----------



## mjcanuck

I'm picking up my new Panny AX100 next week, and I'm trying to decide if I should get a Greywolf sceen or not? The Panny is supposed to be very bright , but I will have it shelf mounted about 5.5 -6 feet off the floor and 16.5 feet from the screen. my seating will also be against the same wall that the projector is shelf mounted on, so i guess I have two questions, 1. will the combo of the Greywolf and the Panny be too bright? and 2. will the projector be too loud mounted about 2 feet above my head? Thanks in advance for any input


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjcanuck* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm picking up my new Panny AX100 next week, and I'm trying to decide if I should get a Greywolf sceen or not? The Panny is supposed to be very bright , but I will have it shelf mounted about 5.5 -6 feet off the floor and 16.5 feet from the screen. my seating will also be against the same wall that the projector is shelf mounted on, so i guess I have two questions, 1. will the combo of the Greywolf and the Panny be too bright? and 2. will the projector be too loud mounted about 2 feet above my head? Thanks in advance for any input




One thing thats nice will a birght setup is you can have more ambient light and not always have to have it dark.


Also you can also turn down the birghtness levels of the projector which in return will increase the bulb life.


So for the money and what you get out of the screen I'd say give it a try.


- Josh


----------



## Pedro2

I'm in the same situation, new panny projector on the way, already have the Graywolf I and wondering how much better the Graywolf II is...is this a slight or noticeable difference between the two?


----------



## SKoprowski

Today I walked into a national Computer store here in the USA







and they had an unopended 92inch Graywolf 1 screen marked down to $98.00! The sticker on the box looked like they have had it since November 2005- no dents in the box at all. I'm hoping this one won't have the problems as the early ones have had. I was considering getting a new projector but I am going to try this out to see if it helps improve my 4 year old 400:1 XGA lcd projector (don't laugh it was the sh&t in 2002).


Scott


----------



## JarJarMamma

I was wondering is the screen transparent or solid? I was hoping that before I buy one can you put your center speaker behind the fabric to hear it like a real theatre or do you have to mount you speaker below or above the screen?


----------



## Itsdon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JarJarMamma* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was wondering is the screen transparent or solid? I was hoping that before I buy one can you put your center speaker behind the fabric to hear it like a real theatre or do you have to mount you speaker below or above the screen?



It's completely solid, your center channel would need to be mounted, as you say, above or below the screen.


----------



## SKoprowski

Well...played with the Graywold last night. Not as huge a difference as I thought it would be over the HP. I had thought that it had the same retroreflective properties of the HP but during panning the waves in the GW where evident- this does not happen with the HP. I'll do more calibration tonight and report back.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SKoprowski* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well...played with the Graywold last night. Not as huge a difference as I thought it would be over the HP. I had thought that it had the same retroreflective properties of the HP but during panning the waves in the GW where evident- this does not happen with the HP. I'll do more calibration tonight and report back.



There's not much of a difference in gain properties but you'll see better color's and black's with the graywolf. I find that that HP with out any lense filters produces a washed out image.


- Josh


----------



## jpo99

I have 120" GWII. Is it safe to leave it pulled down all the time?


----------



## jonnyozero3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpo99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have 120" GWII. Is it safe to leave it pulled down all the time?



Well, I've had my 106" GW I pulled down for about 1.5 years now and it hasn't burned down my house, given me herpes, or caused me to run with scissors....yet.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpo99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have 120" GWII. Is it safe to leave it pulled down all the time?



mines (GWI) been pulled down since I bought...no problems here....been about 8 months


----------



## DanLW

Okay, so in search for the best black levels, I blacked out my living room using black sheets on the walls and ceilings. This has definitely helped... but now would a GrayWolfII still be good for me, or should I just go and do a BlackOut cloth solution? I plan to get the Optoma HD73, a DC3 projector, ceiling mounted, and a 92" screen.


----------



## jberylec

I may have missed it, because I skipped a few pages, but can someone please explain the differences between the GW and GWII ??


Also, FYI... I am still trying to decide between HCCV, GHawk, FHawk, or GWolfII.

All I have are samples, and with my projector shelf mounted right above my head, I'm still not getting enough uniformity from the FHawk!


I think it's because I'm projecting 100" and viewing from only 12ft or so. Cone is too small on these high gain greys! I fear the same problem with the GWII (sample is on it's way!).


I'm assuming the HCCV and GHawk compete (no gain, grey), while the GWolfII and FHawk compete (high gain retro-reflect, grey).

Correct?



Thank you much!


----------



## millerwill

jberylec: The FH is angular-reflective, rather than retro. Therefore it is always recommended that the pj be ceiling mounted for it, and at a throw ratio >/= 1.6.


So with your pj mounted as you describe, the GW is a possibility, as is the Dalite HighPower.


----------



## jberylec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *millerwill* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> jberylec: The FH is angular-reflective, rather than retro. Therefore it is always recommended that the pj be ceiling mounted for it, and at a throw ratio >/= 1.6.
> 
> 
> So with your pj mounted as you describe, the GW is a possibility, as is the Dalite HighPower.



Oh the FH is angular?! That's good news kind of... I was getting worried I was seeing things while trying to figure out why it looked so good in some spots and so poor in others! Too bad I can't use it, cause it's hot










And the HP is out of the question for me, it kills the blacks and washes out colors in my environment.


Now I'm really excited to receive the GWII sample! I think I've finally narrowed down my search to GWII, HCCV, or GreyHawk










Thank you for the info!! I'm still looking to learn the differences between GW and GWII... anyone?...


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jberylec* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh the FH is angular?! That's good news kind of... I was getting worried I was seeing things while trying to figure out why it looked so good in some spots and so poor in others! Too bad I can't use it, cause it's hot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the HP is out of the question for me, it kills the blacks and washes out colors in my environment.
> 
> 
> Now I'm really excited to receive the GWII sample! I think I've finally narrowed down my search to GWII, HCCV, or GreyHawk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for the info!! I'm still looking to learn the differences between GW and GWII... anyone?...



I believe its how they did the glass beading on the screen to reduce "sparklies" I could be wrong but I thought thats what the difference was.


I have a GWI and I love it, though I love it because I bought it used for $100, and the guy delivered it to my home.


But if your doing a shelf mount I thing the GWII will be a good choice for you, plus man its cheap!!!


- Josh


----------



## leviathan125

Can the graywolf II screen lock where the top of the black border is 2" from the case and not the full 12"?


----------



## jberylec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I believe its how they did the glass beading on the screen to reduce "sparklies" I could be wrong but I thought thats what the difference was.
> 
> 
> I have a GWI and I love it, though I love it because I bought it used for $100, and the guy delivered it to my home.
> 
> 
> But if your doing a shelf mount I thing the GWII will be a good choice for you, plus man its cheap!!!
> 
> - Josh



Thank you for the info. Not so cheap for me, cause I'm going the fixed frame route. Still cheaper than most others, but it's not a $100 steal like you got










Anyone here get the fixed frame? How's the build quality? The velvet? etc...


Thanks in advance


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jberylec* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you for the info. Not so cheap for me, cause I'm going the fixed frame route. Still cheaper than most others, but it's not a $100 steal like you got
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone here get the fixed frame? How's the build quality? The velvet? etc...
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance



Where are you finding a fixed frame GWII?


- Josh


----------



## jberylec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where are you finding a fixed frame GWII?
> 
> 
> - Josh



Their webiste!








http://www.optomausa.com/store_proje...%20fixed-frame


----------



## fragnot

I just put in an order for a fixed frame 106" Graywolf II. If anyone has this screen I'd love to hear your opinion on it. I got the screen to go with my PT-AX100U and I cant wait for delivery.


The build quality seems low compared to other screens, cheaper materials thinner metals and more plastic. But I don't plan on hanging from the screen so I doubt thats a problem.


I purchased the screen after I saw a Stewart Firehawk at Magnolia. I came away less than impressed with it. The image was very washed out in limited ambient light. I felt my Projector had more contrast on white walls.


----------



## umdivx

the biggest complaint I have with the GW screens is the waves, but if your getting the fixed frame that will fix any of the issues with the screen. I am in the process of building my own frame for my pull down GW I screen.


going off of these instructions:
http://www.b-adeals.com/ProductScree...structions.htm 


should be able to build the whole frame for under $30 which aint a bad deal at all.


I love the graywolf because the black levels and colors it produces. The only other downside is that if you do a ceiling mount setup its not the most ideal setup for it. Shelf mounted or coffee table mount is the best setup for this screen.


But for the money you can't beat its performance and picture quality.


----------



## HDinPA

Well I have been reading this thread, as many pages as i could get though. And was wondering what your opinions are on a ceiling mounted HD70 with a grey wolf screen. This obviously an entry level setup, just trying to make sure I spend the money wisely










Here is my planned set up (nothing purchased yet but it is wife approved!):


optoma - DE-GWII9092E 92" diagnol electric screen

viewing 12 feet from screen (give or take)

projector 10.5 to 11.5' from screen ceiling mount (80" to 90" off floor)

projector HD70


from what i have seen the offset will be around 14 to 15 inches which sounds to me like it will work out perfect but im a newbie!

I have full control over lighting so the room will most likely be blacked out for movie watching, but I am hoping for the ability to watch movies with some ambient light.

Also, has anyone tried a center speaker behind these screens? I know they are not accoustically transparent, just curious.


----------



## JRace




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *leviathan125* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Can the graywolf II screen lock where the top of the black border is 2" from the case and not the full 12"?



I have the 92" pull-down graywolf II. It can lock in positions other than the full 12".


It will lock at 3.5" - that is the closest I could get it.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDinPA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well I have been reading this thread, as many pages as i could get though. And was wondering what your opinions are on a ceiling mounted HD70 with a grey wolf screen. This obviously an entry level setup, just trying to make sure I spend the money wisely
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my planned set up (nothing purchased yet but it is wife approved!):
> 
> 
> optoma - DE-GWII9092E 92" diagnol electric screen
> 
> viewing 12 feet from screen (give or take)
> 
> projector 10.5 to 11.5' from screen ceiling mount (80" to 90" off floor)
> 
> projector HD70
> 
> 
> from what i have seen the offset will be around 14 to 15 inches which sounds to me like it will work out perfect but im a newbie!
> 
> I have full control over lighting so the room will most likely be blacked out for movie watching, but I am hoping for the ability to watch movies with some ambient light.
> 
> Also, has anyone tried a center speaker behind these screens? I know they are not accoustically transparent, just curious.





All the GW screens are retro reflective screens, meaning that the gain properties of the screen will only with work coffee table and shelf mounted setups. If your doing a ceiling mount you won't get the full gain properties out of the screen.


I am doing a ceiling mount myself, with a Panny AE900 and I love it, I know its not perfect or the absolute best it can be, but its good for me.


If you spending the money for a electric screen, I'd honestly say look somewhere else, my opinion is that these screens are great for the beginner in the manual form but if your going the extra mile spending on a electric screen, the GW might not be the league of screen your looking for, again this is just my opinion and you can take that with a grain of salt.


But how I look at these screens, are they are a great "budget" gray screen. You won't find a screen that will give you the colors, black levels, and gain properties as the graywolf.


and if your dong a ceiling mount, you could, to get back some of the gain properties is use a pipe extension and move the projector closer to the floor, the more even you have the projector with the center/lower center of the screen you'll get back more of the gain properties back.


Also you will hate the center speaker behind this screen, it'll kill your audio quality totally.


finally I have a ceiling mount, which defeats the gain properties of the screen an I am still fully able to watch tv, and football games in a lot of ambient light with no issues was so ever.


so take this info however you want, but know that I think the only way this screen is worth it, is in manual pull down form, trust me, when you get this setup, you'll find that you'll end up keeping it down all the time and wonder why you got the electric motor for it.


- Josh


----------



## HDinPA

Thanks for the info Josh.

I think in my situation I have to do a ceiling mount. The table idea wont fly with my wife, and Im not wild about it either. Extending it from the ceiling may work, but I have the problem of my seating area and the projector being at almost the same spot. So Im not sure that will work either. I do want an electric screen but am always up for a good compromise. Would I be better off with a white screen with around the same gain? I understand this is a bright projector and I want the best image I can afford. That said for the $500 or so I was willing to spend on the GW electric and suggestion on how i might better spend it?


I have seen some VERY cheap deals on Ebay and was curious if anyone has any experience with those screens? Here is one that sounds too good to be true.

Saaria® Ultra Matt White ™ 92" diag with IR remote and 1.3 gain on a white matte screen. Will I loose more quality moving to a white screen then if I stay with my plans of a GW and a ceiling mount setup? Maybe a white screen and a lense filter?


----------



## umdivx

I wouldn't go with a white screen at all becuase of the lack of black levels, and the colors look washed out.


I an not extreamly familair with this screen:

http://www.visualapex.com/accessorie...e&Type=Screens 


but it might be a good option as its a gray screen but I am not sure if its a retro reflective screen like the GW is, if its not, it'd be great for ceiling mount setups.


- Josh


----------



## HDinPA

Thanks for the feedback. I will probally go with the GW and play with the projector height till I'm happy. By the way I checked out your HT very nicely done, looks similar to the space I will be working with, hopefully in a few months (project starts in january) I'll have some pics to share


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HDinPA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. I will probally go with the GW and play with the projector height till I'm happy. By the way I checked out your HT very nicely done, looks similar to the space I will be working with, hopefully in a few months (project starts in january) I'll have some pics to share



Thanks the room isn't anything spectacular compared to most ppl's setups here, but it gets the job done.


- Josh


----------



## jberylec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wouldn't go with a white screen at all becuase of the lack of black levels, and the colors look washed out.
> 
> I an not extreamly familair with this screen:
> 
> http://www.visualapex.com/accessorie...e&Type=Screens
> 
> 
> but it might be a good option as its a gray screen but I am not sure if its a retro reflective screen like the GW is, if its not, it'd be great for ceiling mount setups.
> 
> - Josh



The screen you linked to is the Elite HCG. It doesn't have any reflective issues, and has a very very wide viewing cone. Simply because it doesnt have positive gain like the Gray Wolf.


I actually highly recommend the Elite HCG because it's only a fraction of the cost of a Stewart GreyHawk! And they compare very nicely










I found that the Optoma Gray Wolf has too much gain, making the image brightness less uniform from different angles/seating positions. I had to rule it out for my environment, it just wouldnt work unfortunetly


----------



## umdivx

do they make the Elite in a manual pulldown, meaning a cheaper version of it?


- Josh


----------



## jberylec




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *umdivx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> do they make the Elite in a manual pulldown, meaning a cheaper version of it?
> 
> - Josh



While I know fixed frames wont fit in everyones space, if you're already considering the cheapest fixed frame (Elite) which is not much more expensive than other brand's pull downs... I strongly suggest staying away from the manual pulldown. What I mean is, don't try to save even more dough just by going with a pull down. They develop ripples and/or waves. Most people can see those in the image.


Stick with tensioned, or fixed frame. My .02

That said, yes they make a pull down. Here is their stuff: http://www.elitescreens.com/homecinema.html 


Enough on that topic though, before we get in trouble







After all, this IS the Gray Wolf thread


----------



## NewPannyGuy

I'm considering 106" motorized GW II, but a bit worried about its retro-reflective properties. I'll be "shelf" mounting the projector about 8 ft off the floor (so its more like a ceiling mount) about 20 ft from the screen, with the lens being about 8-10" above the top of the screen. The seating position is 20 ft from the screen (right below the pj). Is there any info available for this screen about how much gain "loss" results from mounting the projector above the screen. I'm looking for at least 1.3-1.4 gain on the screen.


Is anybody using this screen in a similar setup. If so, please let me know how much difference do you notice between the optimal and your actual viewing position.


----------



## fragnot

I just got and assembled my 106" Optima Grayewolf 2 fixed frame screen. I bought the screen in its fixed frame form. Here are a few thoughts.


Wow! this is a huge step up from my white walls. The material works great with my PT-AX100U. Whites are pure and very bright. Blacks are dramatically improved. My wife can read with lights on while I watch a movie. As I said earlier I got the screen after being very unimpressed by Stewart and Screen Technologies gray screen, which I saw at Magnolia. The Graywolf screen with my projector is easily better, by a lot. Enough that I'm thinking there must have been a problem with the setup at Magnolia.


Now for the things I don't like.


All those posts about the poor packaging are very true. Please believe those posts. I got the box with one end open and parts falling out. Optimum needs to address this. It is bad enough that I would not ever order from them again. Lucky for me there was only one very small dent on a corner piece which does not bother me enough to warrant a return. Also at some point the baggy of screws got opened but nothing fell out.


Assembly on this screen is an absolute nightmare. You can download the "assembly instructions" (I reccommend you do this before you order) which illustrate the tensioning system. The problems here relate to warping of the frame as you try - sweet falling from your brow - to get even tension around the whole screen. It takes several attempts and the tension must be very minimal or the frame will twist out of shape.


Next don't forget to put in the nuts before you complete putting the frame together, or you'll have to break it down and reassemble like me.


The frame itself is very light and sturdy, it feels well made. There is spray coating of velvet like material on its surface. It does and very good job of soaking up the light spill. It is not a fabric covering though and is easily scratched revealing the aluminum frame beneath.


Surprisingly the plastic elbow joints which join the frame together are very solid. Think Glock style plastic. I have no concern there.


The hanging system sucks. The screws can easily rip the screen material. Terrible design. Plus there is no bottom frame mounting so a 106 screen will never really be flush mounted to all but the most perfectly flat walls. The bottom of the frame hangs loose, and only two screws are used to hold the top of the screen to the wall.




So minor gripes:

Corners do not meet flush, there is a very small gap.

Very SHARP cut your fingers edges.

Poor quality plastic protectors for back of frame one broke during assembly.


Here's my main gripe. The stitches on the left edge and bottom edge of on the screen itself are visible and not hidden behind the frame borders. This does not really show up though after you turn on your projector still I think it's very unacceptable. By adding another 1 inch of material to the top and bottom Optima could resolve this problem.


As good as the picture looks, I would not buy this screen fixed frame again.


----------



## SollyD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fragnot* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just got and assembled my 106" Optima Grayewolf 2 fixed frame screen. I bought the screen in its fixed frame form. Here are a few thoughts.
> 
> 
> Wow! this is a huge step up from my white walls. The material works great with my PT-AX100U. Whites are pure and very bright. Blacks are dramatically improved. My wife can read with lights on while I watch a movie. As I said earlier I got the screen after being very unimpressed by Stewart and Screen Technologies gray screen, which I saw at Magnolia. The Graywolf screen with my projector is easily better, by a lot. Enough that I'm thinking there must have been a problem with the setup at Magnolia.
> 
> 
> Now for the things I don't like.
> 
> 
> All those posts about the poor packaging are very true. Please believe those posts. I got the box with one end open and parts falling out. Optimum needs to address this. It is bad enough that I would not ever order from them again. Lucky for me there was only one very small dent on a corner piece which does not bother me enough to warrant a return. Also at some point the baggy of screws got opened but nothing fell out.
> 
> 
> Assembly on this screen is an absolute nightmare. You can download the "assembly instructions" (I reccommend you do this before you order) which illustrate the tensioning system. The problems here relate to warping of the frame as you try - sweet falling from your brow - to get even tension around the whole screen. It takes several attempts and the tension must be very minimal or the frame will twist out of shape.
> 
> 
> Next don't forget to put in the nuts before you complete putting the frame together, or you'll have to break it down and reassemble like me.
> 
> 
> The frame itself is very light and sturdy, it feels well made. There is spray coating of velvet like material on its surface. It does and very good job of soaking up the light spill. It is not a fabric covering though and is easily scratched revealing the aluminum frame beneath.
> 
> 
> Surprisingly the plastic elbow joints which join the frame together are very solid. Think Glock style plastic. I have no concern there.
> 
> 
> The hanging system sucks. The screws can easily rip the screen material. Terrible design. Plus there is no bottom frame mounting so a 106 screen will never really be flush mounted to all but the most perfectly flat walls. The bottom of the frame hangs loose, and only two screws are used to hold the top of the screen to the wall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So minor gripes:
> 
> Corners do not meet flush, there is a very small gap.
> 
> Very SHARP cut your fingers edges.
> 
> Poor quality plastic protectors for back of frame one broke during assembly.
> 
> 
> Here's my main gripe. The stitches on the left edge and bottom edge of on the screen itself are visible and not hidden behind the frame borders. This does not really show up though after you turn on your projector still I think it's very unacceptable. By adding another 1 inch of material to the top and bottom Optima could resolve this problem.
> 
> 
> As good as the picture looks, I would not buy this screen fixed frame again.



I was thinking of buying this as a first screen. Good idea or bad idea? any other suggestions?


----------



## fragnot

I think it's a great screen. You're paying three times as much for an image which is IMHO comparable with Stewart and the other "serious" screens. Remember it's not like your watching A/B comparisons at home. So much of what we see is relative anyway. My perception is that first and most important, my wife can use enough light to read while I watch TV on the projector. Even darkish content shows up well. So from this perspective the Graywolf is the right screen for me.


I would stay far away from the fixed frame version. It does look good and no waves for me. But the build quality and assembly in particular are so poor that it should bring terrible shame to Optima. I'm talking about interdepartmental meetings with pointed fingers shame. The screen parts taken individualy are well made, but they do not fit together correctly. Putting this screen together was a brute force exercise. Still nothing fits quite right. Sure you don't notice from 12ft back, but I'm still annoyed and you will be too.


I think if Optima put another $10 per unit into better packing and parts finishing they would have a gold standard product. Instead they have junk.


You might consider giving the Costco (those suckers will take anything back) Graywolf pull down screen a shot. It's also allot cheaper. If you don't like it you can take it back... unlike me.


----------



## Phaffendorf

Hey guys,


I currently have the Optoma HD6800 bundle package (92'' graywolf II + mount) from Costco.ca which I bought for $1745 including taxes + delivery. Anyways.... I have a unit with the dreaded whine sound & I'm considering my options. I would like to buy the Panny PT-AX100 when it comes down in price in Canada.... meaning I would need another screen because I would have to return everything back to Costco. (or I could sell the screen, mount & proj. seperately on ebay) Anyways... If I purchase the Panny I would like a larger screen because I will have many more mounting options due to the easy placement of the AX100. (not ceiling mounting) Where can I get the cheapest 106'' or 120'' graywolf II from Canada?? I don't want to deal with deadly brokerage fees etc. that comes with buying across the border. I was wondering if I could make a deal with Costco & trade my 92'' + cash for a 120'' but I doubt this is possible.


Please PM me if you know where to buy a graywolf II cheap in Canada.


Any thoughts appreciated...


Thanks.


----------



## Ballan

 http://www.eastporters.com/estore/cart.php?page=screens 

These 1.8 gain are the same screen fabric as the Graywolf II (I was told anyways) Great customer service and good return policy. Cheap too!!









http://www.costco.ca/en-CA/Browse/Pr...opnav=&browse= 


Costco.ca also sells them to. The price just when up $ 30.00 on the 120 inch today. Rats!!


Costco only sells 92 and 120 inch too. I want 106 inch so I'm going to try out eastporters.


----------



## jonnyozero3

hmm, where did you hear that these are the same as the GW's?


----------



## Ballan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmm, where did you hear that these are the same as the GW's?




Eastporters sales person.


I read somewhere that the material is out of the same factory so I asked the sales person. I guess he could be lying? I'm trying to decide between this and a Da-lite High Power for my new AX-100? I have ambient light issues and can't decide between bright and Gray (GW) and just really really bright with the HP. Which is better for a living room HTPC?


----------



## fragnot

Those screens use exactly the same frameing system as the Graywolf II fixed frame rig I've been complaining about. See my earlier posts. Same instruction manual, parts etc. I suppose they could be using a different fabric, but i doubt that's the case.


----------



## fragnot

Here are a few shots I took of my GWII.





























Im sure that the EluneVision screens from eastporters are the same frame if not materials. Check Optimas site for their user manual. Compare that manual with EluneVision and the only difference is the cover.


The thread on EluneVision has alot more on these screens: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1&page=4&pp=30


----------



## frny

I have a 92" GW which I really love except for the texture (BTW I have a Panny 900). The sparklies and waves don't bother me too much but the texture is really annoying, to the point that it will distract me from the movie I am watching. So would the GWII be better (much better?). Any other + or - compared to the GW (is the real gain the same - the specs say it is but I read that GWII has in fact less)? The upgrade would cost me around $100 so I am trying to find out if it is worth it.


Thanks


----------



## CHIA

I have a new Elunevision 106" pull down screen from Eastporters, and was told it was the same unit as the GWII. After looking at pictures of the GWII, I would agree, it looks identical.


This is a new model, that is not actually listed on their website. I have a PTAX100 which will be ceiling mounted soon, and am not sure I'm going to keep this screen ort send it back?


After reading 60 some pages of GW info, I'm worried that my ceiling mount may not be the best application for this screen.


Anyway, just thought I would add my 2 cents to anyone looking to buy this screen from Eastporters.....so far, my experience has been positive. Given that this model is not listed on their site, I don't imagine too many people are going to be looking for it though.


The screen shipped fast, arrived without a mark, and while testing it with my projector slightly above eye level, the image is pretty stunning. The whites seem to sparkle sometimes, and this I'm not 100% used to. The good news is that most movies aren't overwhelmed with extended bright white scenes.


CHIA


----------



## Bud-man

I got a free screen today from optoma its model # DS-9092PM, i dont think its a greywolf 2, i'm at work so i cant open the box here.

I saw there selling it on compusa's site for $79.

Did i get a crummy screen?


----------



## wwu123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jpo99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have 120" GWII. Is it safe to leave it pulled down all the time?



I leave my 92" GWII pulled down for days at a time, but give then the posts above about the dog/child slime and no manufacturer-sanctioned method for cleaning it, one should consider their own surface exposure risks.


My unfortunate exposure was with a Da-Lite Cosmopolitan Electrol (the nice tensioned electric one) that hangs above and rolls out over the GWII case. I left it open for a few days this summer during a heat wave. The black "Gray Wolf" lettering on the GWII case transferred to the back of the Da-Lite screen, which then promptly transferred it to the front of the screen after I rolled it up. Also the two bottom corners of the Da-Lite were touching the raised ends of a black lacquer cabinet (this is all in the living room), and black lacquer in the shape of the cabinet is melted onto the two bottom corners!


Haven't had any accidents with leaving the GWII down yet. Fortunately I really just use the GWII now, and the Da-Late matte white surface was already in mediocre shape with visible cleaning swirls. I was only keeping the Da-Lite in the hopes of eventually getting new screen material for the motorized casing.


----------



## jas722

I have a Graywolf 1 92" and was always wished that the texture was a bit better, only really notice it on bright scenes but anyway I just learned of the Graywolf 2 (been away from board for a bit) and was wondering if anyone had any pics comparing the 2 ?


It would really help me out.

Thanks


----------



## jas722

no help ?










I'm currently using a infocus 4805 and thinking about upgrading to an Optoma HD70 but I'm rethinking as of late.


Can Someone help with the differences between the Graywolf 1 and 2 using a 4805 ceiling mounted.


Thanks


----------



## jkirby

okay. have the graywolf 106" with Optoma H78 for almost a year. dimming of bulb is getting to me and ceiling mounted PJ isn't helping.


What can I do to get more light from the screen? Picture is pretty much where I want it positionally. If I tilt the PJ down a bit and then use horizontal lens movement to move the picture up on the screen (to be where it is now) does this do anything??


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jkirby* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> okay. have the graywolf 106" with Optoma H78 for almost a year. dimming of bulb is getting to me and ceiling mounted PJ isn't helping.
> 
> 
> What can I do to get more light from the screen? Picture is pretty much where I want it positionally. If I tilt the PJ down a bit and then use horizontal lens movement to move the picture up on the screen (to be where it is now) does this do anything??



No the ONLY way to get more reflective gain properties is to have the projector coffee table setup or get an extension pole and drop the height of the projector the closer to your head or lower the projector is the more gain properties you will get out of the setup.


If you stand up you'll notice the image gets brighter and thats becuase with this screen the brightness is reflected back to the same point where the light is coming from, IE the ceiling located where the projector is mounted, so the closer the projector is your your eye level the brighter the image is going to be.


- Josh


----------



## Betrarn

I ordered a GW II manual pulldown screen as part of the deal Costco offered a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to get the best possible performance out of my screen, and according to posters in this forum, one of the biggest obstacles to achieving that goal will be contending with the screen's tendency to create waves.


How can I get around this? Are there any methods for eliminating image-distorting waves in the GW II?


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Betrarn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ordered a GW II manual pulldown screen as part of the deal Costco offered a couple of weeks ago. I'd like to get the best possible performance out of my screen, and according to posters in this forum, one of the biggest obstacles to achieving that goal will be contending with the screen's tendency to create waves.
> 
> 
> How can I get around this? Are there any methods for eliminating image-distorting waves in the GW II?



take the screen out of the housing and mount it to your own custom built frame.


- Josh


----------



## Betrarn

Is that really the only way? I'd prefer to keep it in the housing so that it could be rolled up after use.


How prominent are the image problems, anyway? If they aren't very distracting, I may not do anything about it.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Betrarn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Is that really the only way? I'd prefer to keep it in the housing so that it could be rolled up after use.
> 
> 
> How prominent are the image problems, anyway? If they aren't very distracting, I may not do anything about it.



well if you watch alot of things with panning/scrolling video IE Nascar or CNN then you've got nothing to worry about.


- Josh


----------



## rlpip

OK I have a Sony VPL-HS51 projector in a controlled light, black ceiling, black carpet, brown walled dedicated home theatre. I have been reading the posts about the Graywolf II screens, and am thinking the DFGWII9106F fixed frame version may be a good option / sounds like an almost Firehawk at a better value. A couple of questions:


Does anybody have this screen in a similar setup? If so, how do you feel about screen brightness in the darkened room -- is the gray too dark / better off with matte white?


In cinema mode, the Sony doesn't throw a lot of light. This isn't a problem on my homemade flat white job with the door closed -- but door open with some ambient light and you start to loose detail. (This is why I am looking for a screen with a higher gain.)


Is the screen cleanable if my kids get popcorn hands on it?


----------



## umdivx

well depending on your throw distance and all that you might experience "hot spotting" "sparklies" and all the usual with the screen that everyone else see's.


Not to mention the texture, thats my biggest complaint with this screen, is the texture. I'd go for a screen with gain, and one with smooth texture over the GW any day of the week.


- Josh


----------



## bqmeister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rlpip* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> OK I have a Sony VPL-HS51 projector in a controlled light, black ceiling, black carpet, brown walled dedicated home theatre. I have been reading the posts about the Graywolf II screens, and am thinking the DFGWII9106F fixed frame version may be a good option / sounds like an almost Firehawk at a better value. A couple of questions:
> 
> 
> Does anybody have this screen in a similar setup? If so, how do you feel about screen brightness in the darkened room -- is the gray too dark / better off with matte white?
> 
> 
> In cinema mode, the Sony doesn't throw a lot of light. This isn't a problem on my homemade flat white job with the door closed -- but door open with some ambient light and you start to loose detail. (This is why I am looking for a screen with a higher gain.)
> 
> 
> Is the screen cleanable if my kids get popcorn hands on it?



i have a manual pull down graywolf ii (106").


Screen brightness in a darkened room is fantastic. I've only used this screen, but I'd think it would be brighter than a 0 gain matte white.


the screen is NOT cleanable. Looks like if you tried to clean it, you'd clean the beads off.


I have no waves, no sparkles, no hot spots, no complaints. The viewing cone for this is more than perfect in my 14 foot wide room, even sitting on the edges at about 8-10 feet from the screen.


I do have my projector mounted on a stand at 2 feet high, so I think that helps the gain significantly.


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bqmeister* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> .....
> 
> I do have my projector mounted on a stand at 2 feet high, so I think that helps the gain significantly.




yes the lower the the floor or closer to eye level your projector is, the more gain properties you get.


- Josh


----------



## luna digital

I just found a nasty little scratch on my screen. I think my daughter or one of her friends put in there. It looks like a nail scratched across the screen and took some of the glass beads with it. Anyone know of a way to fix this?

The scratch if barely visible on its own but when the projector is on.....you CANT miss it!!


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *luna digital* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just found a nasty little scratch on my screen. I think my daughter or one of her friends put in there. It looks like a nail scratched across the screen and took some of the glass beads with it. Anyone know of a way to fix this?
> 
> The scratch if barely visible on its own but when the projector is on.....you CANT miss it!!



Sorry to say but no. there is no way to fix it. Only way is to replace the screen.


- Josh


----------



## angel2167882

Costco Canada have a sweet deal right now
http://www.costco.ca/en-CA/Browse/Pr...rodid=10290871 

For 1899$ CND, it come with:

-Optoma HD6800 (HD72 clone) PJ

-Optoma GreyWolf II 92" pull-down screen

-DVI-to-DVI 5m cable

-Ceiling mount (look's like OEM Optoma mount on picture but text don't mention it)

-Shipping & Handling included


But there's one thing I don't understand here










After all I've read on the Optoma GreyWolf-II screen, it seems that ceiling mount PJ really don't work great because of the retro-reflective of the screen, most of the brightness is reflected back to the light source, which means up the ceiling mounted PJ, and not to the seated folks on the ground.


I've done my homework thus... I did made the maths according the the HD72 owner's manual for optimal position of the setup according to my room.


At 12' PJ distance for a 92" screen, a "very flush" mount would start to project at around 16" below ceiling. Counting the screen 12" black drop and 4" casing, I could mount the screen at the very top of the wall.


But I don't want that right because of the Grey-Wolf screen, I would need to suspend the PJ as low as possible, so light will reflect back to a lower point above ground (and also not to have the neck always toward up anyway).


I also have another issue which is the screen will indeed block one of my basement window when pull-down, which mean I cannot attach the screen casing below 12" from ceiling.


So, with a 96" ceiling (8'), here's what I've figured out:


-PJ distance will be at 144" (12''), let's call it *D*


-PJ will be suspended 84" above ground (12" from ceiling), let's call it *P*


-Screen image will project from 24" up to 68" above ground (44" screen height)

--Screen total height is 44", let's call it *SH*

---So center of the screen image will be at 46" above ground, let's call it *SC*


-Audience eyes (mine and girlfriend) will be at about 36" to 48" above ground (sitting on a futon)

---So average eyes height will be at 42" above ground, let's call it *E*


Calculation would be made with a free trigonometry calculator








http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp 


Roughly, it give me a vertical reflexion angle of 75° from light source to eyes...


I know the GreyWolf II specs a 100° viewing angle but how in reality it will affect my cinematic experience? I also want to point out this will be an HTPC driven which I also want to play PC games on it...


Oh and the room will be black-out during movie and little dimmed light on me for PC gaming...


Should I get the Costco deal and give it a try first... and if I'm not happy sell the 92" Grey Wolf II screen and get a 106" matt white one instead? (why not a Mustang/Elite VMAX motorized







)


----------



## CHIA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *angel2167882* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Should I get the Costco deal and give it a try first... and if I'm not happy sell the 92" Grey Wolf II screen and get a 106" matt white one instead? (why not a Mustang/Elite VMAX motorized
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



Yes.


----------



## JackLT

You cant make a mistake with Costco










But your right, with a retro reflective screen it needs the projector as close to eye level as possible. Makes a big difference. I think your plan has it too high. It will look much better standing up than sitting down










It's really not the best projector for a retro screen, if you want the full retro effect.



The best projectors for a retro screen are the ones that can be placed below the top of the screen. Look at the 7100 package too.


----------



## ludersven

If your interested in the motorized 106" GWII then check out Circuit City's web.

Pretty good price, I have not found better, it almost looks like a mistake if you compare to the manual GWII prizing.

I just bought one for my new HD1000U, picked up in-store so no shipping.


----------



## Blaine Sellie

As mentioned above, Circuit City's web price for the Graywolf II 106 electric is $499 right now. I picked mine up at the store as well. I also bought the Optoma HD 72 online for $1849 - $400 rebate = $1449.


So under $2000 for the whole set up. I will ceiling mount the PJ, but must admit, after reading this post, I am a little worried about this combo.


Blaine


----------



## Ikari Warrior

I have pretty much the same setup (HD72, 92" Greywolf II) ceiling mounted to about a 7' ceiling and it looks terrific. Sure, it looks a bit brighter when you stand up due to the screens retroreflective nature, but it still looks amazing from the seating area. I wouldn't worry too much.


----------



## bqmeister

Speaking of Circuit City - they have a $150 rebate on the 120" graywolf II. Sale ends Friday or Saturday. Looks like they may have bumped the screen price up $100 but still with the rebate, that's a $50 savings.


I jumped on it this morning.


----------



## angel2167882




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ikari Warrior* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have pretty much the same setup (HD72, 92" Greywolf II) ceiling mounted to about a 7' ceiling and it looks terrific. Sure, it looks a bit brighter when you stand up due to the screens retroreflective nature, but it still looks amazing from the seating area. I wouldn't worry too much.



Great to know... I've just ordered the Costco deal with HD6800 and GWII 92"... the PJ should also be mount at around 7' on my setup... I'll see how it goes with the GWII and if I'm not enough happy with, I will get a 100" matt white Elite VMAX motorised at TigerDirect.


I'll let you know my tought and post pictures once the setup is done


----------



## Movie Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frny* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have a 92" GW which I really love except for the texture (BTW I have a Panny 900). The sparklies and waves don't bother me too much but the texture is really annoying, to the point that it will distract me from the movie I am watching. So would the GWII be better (much better?). Any other + or - compared to the GW (is the real gain the same - the specs say it is but I read that GWII has in fact less)? The upgrade would cost me around $100 so I am trying to find out if it is worth it.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I was using a 92 " Graywolf 1 with my table mounted Optoma DV10 but replaced it yesterday with a Graywolf II. There is a significant difference with the GW II. The picture quality is much better. It's a lot brighter and the colors are much more vibrant. Put it this way, the difference to me was so noticeable that is felt like I went from watching standard resolution to watching high def. Yes, that's how much of a difference I seen. I haven't been able to stop watching movies. That's how happy and impressed I am. So, all I can say is if it's only gonna cost you $100 to upgrade do it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. However, keep in mind that they do say that having the projector on a coffee table or floor mounted will give you a little more gain thus maybe the reason I'm getting such a fantastic picture? All I can say is I'm one happy puppy right now!


----------



## tattootearz

I just replaced my 92" GWII with a Matte White 1.0 Gain and it was the best move I could have made.



Anyone in the NYC area need a 92" GWII Manual Pulldown in mint condition? PM Me!


----------



## JackLT




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tattootearz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just replaced my 92" GWII with a Matte White 1.0 Gain and it was the best move I could have made.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone in the NYC area need a 92" GWII Manual Pulldown in mint condition? PM Me!



What projector are you using, why is the matte white better?


----------



## tattootearz

HD70 Ceiling mounted.



Since I've been a PJ owner, I have learned from experience and alot of reading on these forums that it all depends on the environment.


I have a 100% Light controlled room with Red walls... my projector is ceiling mounted. When I first got my setup, it looked phenomenal, despite all the advice I read about how the GWII was not ideal for a ceiling mounted setup.... well... no soon as my bulb went through a slight dimming phase, I immediatly realized why the GWII was no longer ideal for my setup.


I think it's a great screen.... but for my setup, the Matte White blows it away. It's brighter than the GWII ever was in my application.... infact I had to restore the PJ to the low bright settings and tone down the Black & White levels alot to accomodate the new screen.... the color "white" is no longer gray... and the overall color representation is much more pleasing to my eyes. (oh... and no more fuzzy picture texture!)


Overall, it is excellent.


----------



## Movie Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tattootearz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HD70 Ceiling mounted.
> 
> 
> 
> Since I've been a PJ owner, I have learned from experience and alot of reading on these forums that it all depends on the environment.
> 
> 
> I have a 100% Light controlled room with Red walls... my projector is ceiling mounted. When I first got my setup, it looked phenomenal, despite all the advice I read about how the GWII was not ideal for a ceiling mounted setup.... well... no soon as my bulb went through a slight dimming phase, I immediatly realized why the GWII was no longer ideal for my setup.
> 
> 
> I think it's a great screen.... but for my setup, the Matte White blows it away. It's brighter than the GWII ever was in my application.... infact I had to restore the PJ to the low bright settings and tone down the Black & White levels alot to accomodate the new screen.... the color "white" is no longer gray... and the overall color representation is much more pleasing to my eyes. (oh... and no more fuzzy picture texture!)
> 
> 
> Overall, it is excellent.




You hit the nail right on the head. It all depends on your enviroment. I am using a tabletop Optoma DV10 thus the reason I'm seeing such great results from the

GW II. From what I hear the results will not be as good when using a ceiling mounted projector thus the reason you probably noticed your picture got dimmer when using the GW II? However, I'm glad your getting satisfying results with your Matte White screen.


----------



## iggymama

Yeah, after trying a cheap 96" Matte White screen and returning it because it looked too bright (when I first set up my PJ), I bought and returned the 96" GW1, the 106" GW2, and bought a 106" HP. I also got an 80" Matte White Dalite for the RV (sitting 8 feet away) and I like the Matte White better than any of the others. I put a filter on my Panny ae900U to improve the black levels, so now it looks much better with the Matte White screen. The HP washes out really bad when I turn on a lamp near my chair - much worse than the Matte White did. If I had it to do over, I probably would have gotten a 106" Matte White for the house, too (with the filtered PJ).


----------



## Brajesh

I sold my GWI & got a Dalite HP. Huge improvement. You get even higher gain than the GW plus the screen texture is smooth. No more dingy, dirty-looking bright or white scenes. I got a standard model B pull-down & it's a perfect fit in the same spots where I had hung my GWI 106".


----------



## iggymama

I couldn't stand the sparklies and texture from the GW screens (even GW2). I agree the HP is much brighter (106" model B), smoother and less wavey, but it seems to wash out more than GW or Matte White with a lamp next to my chair, even with a scarf over the shade to block most of the light from the screen. Also, the blacks aren't nearly as dark with the HP screen, even with no ambient lighting.


----------



## Movie Guy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I couldn't stand the sparklies and texture from the GW screens (even GW2). I agree the HP is much brighter (106" model B), smoother and less wavey, but it seems to wash out more than GW or Matte White with a lamp next to my chair, even with a scarf over the shade to block most of the light from the screen. Also, the blacks aren't nearly as dark with the HP screen, even with no ambient lighting.




I did notice a few sparklies on my Graywolf 1 but I have not seen a single one on my Graywolf 2. I guess I got lucky?


----------



## bqmeister

I just returned my 120" graywolf and will be ordering an HP this week. I've got a 106" graywolf that I'm overall very happy with, except for the size. But the 120" had a defect (lines in the screen that were only visible from my seated position, but really annoying).


But the main thing I was unhappy with the 120 for - I could really see the texture. It was very distracting. I didn't notice it nearly as much on the 106, but I still noticed it. Dark and/or colorful scenes don't present a problem, but bright and or whiter scenes - the texture always took me out of the immersion feeling I was looking for. I spent more time looking at the screen rather than watching material.


I hoping I'll be happy with the HP.


----------



## bqmeister

The defect I mentioned -


Reading back through this thread, it's like one of the posts on the first page - I think the plastic covering the screen is what caused the lines on the screen.


----------



## iggymama

I saw discoloration on the top 6-8" of my HP screen, so I washed off some adhesive from the plastic film that is apparently used for protecting the screen during transporting. The discoloration was gone. I don't know how you can safetly clean a GW screen, as it is not smooth like the HP.


My primary complaint about the HP is the blacks are not very dark, and despite claims to the contrary, it does reflect ambient lighting and wash out - even lighting from the sides. I don't understand why people say it doesn't. At least I don't notice the waves, which are very visible and common on the GW.


I might have done better with a Dalite Matte White, like I have in my RV. No texture or sparklies, and maybe better blacks, and a much wider viewing angle than the GW or HP. I'm not sure about waves, as the screen in my RV is only 80x80, while the one in the living room in 106" diagonal.


I am using an 81C filter on my PJ to improve the blacks and prevent white crush, but good light control is still necessary.


----------



## bqmeister

I never saw waves with my GW.


Is the viewing angle for the HP similiar or smaller than the GW?

As far as cleaning a GW, I'd guess it'd be impossible. I had another minor imperfection on mine - saw texture really bad in one small area. Examined it closely and could easily feel a 'bump' in the texture and I was able to 'rub' that piece of texture off.



I didn't notice any adverse affects from doing that, but it was a very small area. I imagine if it had been a larger area, the screen would have been completely ruined.


----------



## iggymama

I saw a lot of waves on my GW2! The HP has a few waves, but I never notice them during viewing. I only see the waves with ambient lighting from the side. I'd guess the viewing angles are similar, but the HP screen is much brighter, so it may seem to have a wider viewing angle because of the extra lumens. Matte White screens have a much wider viewing angle, and are easy to clean.


----------



## bqmeister

I don't need a wide viewing angle. My room is 14 feet wide by 27 feet deep. front row of seating starts at 19 feet back. Sure, there is some overflow seating in the front at about 12 feet back, but it's overflow only. My narrow room should be perfect for a high power.


The high power is easy to clean too, right?


----------



## iggymama

Very smooth surface. Cleans easily with a damp cloth, maybe a bit of dish soap if water doesn't work. Very heavy material, too.


If you are ceiling mounting the PJ, it will affect the image brightness, as the viewing angle goes horizontally and vertically. Kinda like an LCD laptop screen. Particularly if the PJ is closer to the screen, as the angle would be greater. Best mounting for the HP is as close as possible to head-height.


----------



## bqmeister

The projector is mounted on a stand 22 inches high and about 15 feet back. I sit directly behind the projector at about 19 feet back.


I should be golden.


----------



## Greg T

Be careful at Best Buy. I bought a supposed Gray Wolf II 106" screen at best buy about a week ago. It was my first screen so didn't know the difference. I just noticed this Morning that they sold me a GWI. So Today I took back the GWI to exchange for the actual GWII that I paid for.

Wow, what a difference much brighter whites and brighter colors with the GWII. Not a complete loss.. it was on sale Today $30 cheaper and I got 15% off with a coupon.


----------



## rbastedo

I started out with an old silver coated screen from a thrift store, then I bought the H31 and got the free screen - Panoview matte white 1.0 gain.

That was great, but I read how much brighter the Graywolf was so I bought one.


I'm the guy with the dogs & the kids & something that got splattered on the screen.

Attempts to clean it made matters worse.

The smudges are only visible in bright scenes.


Now I'm taking down the GW and getting an electric matte white 1.2 gain screen.

I have five reasons:


1. I see brilliant sparkles

2. there are vertical lines whenever a certain color of yellow is displayed.

3. this thing is not cleanable

4. small viewing cone

5. wow factor of the electric screen


I don't think I'll miss the GW. If I do I can always hang it back up there for a while and remember what it was like. Maybe it will make a nice outdoor screen...


----------



## jkirby

which matte are you getting? brand/model?


----------



## rbastedo

I'm getting the Focupix HDVio 92" electric.

It should be here on Thursday.


----------



## beenlooking

great thread on the gw2.Had dv10 till pj gave me the big red light .Had the gw2


screen also.Up graded to optoma 6800 with 92"gw,great projector,screen was poorly packaged,plastic wrap was opened,foam supports non existant,with metal casing damaged.Pj was good with table location,but last week ceiling mounted ,at about 7 ft4in to lens,even with pj adjustments sparkles,and a definate cone is

visible.Bothered enough to make up 96x54 wood frame with 2 layers white sheets for now,no more sparkles or cone effect,colour is good blacks just a small difference.any ideas on what has worked for your setup.Can't really lower the screen more than 36 in from floor .Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thx


----------



## iggymama

That's why I returned one GW1 and two GW2 screens! Never happy with the results - sparklies, waves, narrow cone, and dark image. I have the Dalite 106" HP Model B, and am pretty happy with an 81C filter on my Panny AX100 PJ to tone down the white crush and improve the contrast a bit. No visible waves. My 80" Matte White in the RV looks great too, and a much wider viewing angle, but I don't know if it would show waves if it was 106". Good luck!


----------



## OBSSSD

Will the manual GWII 120" look ok with my HD1000U? Ceiling mounted at 7-1/2 ft with a TD of 15 ft. There is ambient light in the room.


Thanks!


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *OBSSSD* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Will the manual GWII 120" look ok with my HD1000U? Ceiling mounted at 7-1/2 ft with a TD of 15 ft. There is ambient light in the room.
> 
> 
> Thanks!



I just ditched my GWI, i was getting tired of sparklies, waves, dirty whites, ect....


I honestly don't think you'll be happy with a ceiling mount when using the GWII, I was doing a ceiling mount setup with it, 10ft TD, and after upgrading to the Elite 106" fixed frame setup, I am truly much happier with the setup now. No more waves, no more dirty whites, no more textures, ect...


- Josh


----------



## AustinHorn

Help! I just replaced my 92" GW with a 106" GW II. However in taking down the 92" my son dropped his end and did some minor damage to the center of the screen. To try and repair it, I have some GWII samples that I taped to it but they don't match - obviously. So I called OptomaUSA to see if they had any old samples of the original GW screen samples but they don't. So I'm hoping someone on the forum may still have a small sample laying around that they would be willing to part with. If anyone has such a sample please PM me> If anyone has another/better suggestion, please let me know.


----------



## heiwi

I just bought another GW II 92 inch screen and noticed that it is about 10 inches shorter then the one I bought 2 month ago. I certainly expected it to be the same length of about 65 inches.

Anybody had the same experience? I will send it back since it does not fit our set up in that length.


----------



## AustinHorn

Earlier I'd sent a message asking for a GW screen sample or even some scraps to repair some damage I'd had with me original GW screen. I still need help. Surely, someone who reads this thread has some small pieces of a pull-down screen they've cut up and mounted or still have some small samples they'd used for some tests. I only need a piece a couple of inches wide and 3 or 4 inches long that I can cut up further to repair 4 small damaged spots. If you have some scraps laying around and are willing to part with them please p.m. me. I'm even willing to buy a sample if that is the only way someone will part with an original GW screen sample. Any help would be much appreciated.


Just an FYI that I'm sure others already knew, but was news to me, the GW II samples are considerably darker than the GW. I didn't expect that. At least with my Hitachi PJ-TX100, I think I prefer the GW over the GW II, but I am aware a sample may not give one a true representation of what a full screen would look like. Anyway, with my projector, the GW looks brighter and has more pop than the GW II sample seems to. The GW II sample does seem to have slightly better blacks though.


Again, if anyone has either some scraps or samples they'd be willing to share or even some suggestions on what else I could do to repair the damage please advise. It is a 92" screen and I've thought about cutting it down to a 90" fixed screen and using the left over pieces to do the necessary repairs but that is a last resort. I sometimes like to move the screen and watch it in the back yard on nice evenings and if I wouldn't be able to do that if I cut it up. Anyway, I'm still hoping someone has an old sample or scraps they're willing to part with. Thanks, JS


----------



## eightninesuited

I've got some of the black felt wearing off on the bottom side of my pull-down screen. Nothing major but I can see the silver portion underneath. I was just wondering if I can use some type of flat paint (if so, which would you recommend) to do a bit of touch up.


----------



## eightninesuited

double post.


----------



## fyib

Thanks


----------



## MK153

Just tried a 92" GW II - did not like it one bit. The whole picture just looked dingy in comparison to my DIY matte white screen (84" Optoma matted to a 76" 16:9).


Blacks might have been deepened - but totally not worth it for the screen texture and gray whites.


Does anyone have any experience with an Epson 200+ and a ND2 filter using a white screen? I am thinking that a ND2 filter would be the best way to deepen blacks as I have a light controlled (mostly) room.


----------



## iggymama

I had the same experience with GW1 and GW2 (not as bad, but still too sparkly, waves galore, and not very vibrant). I replaced the GW2 with an HP screen and installed an 81C filter on my Panny ae900u (later moved to the ax100) PJ with pretty good results. Blacks will never look like the GW screen, but so much cleaner and brighter! The filter somewhat improves the blacks if you tweak it with DVE or AVIA properly. It also reduces the white crush. I'm happy with the combo most of the time.


----------



## MK153




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I had the same experience with GW1 and GW2 (not as bad, but still too sparkly, waves galore, and not very vibrant). I replaced the GW2 with an HP screen and installed an 81C filter on my Panny ae900u (later moved to the ax100) PJ with pretty good results. Blacks will never look like the GW screen, but so much cleaner and brighter! The filter somewhat improves the blacks if you tweak it with DVE or AVIA properly. It also reduces the white crush. I'm happy with the combo most of the time.



All an 81c is meant to do is lower the color temp correct? How does this help with white crush and black levels?


Is there a reason you havent used a ND filter?


----------



## sambow87

Just saw this thread and just got my GWII. I have some waves in the screen, but I can not notice them unless I am pretty close (about 2') or standing at the side. I have yet to set my projector up so I don't know if it's going to be present either.


I would like to leave the screen down full time. Is there a problem to that? (it's a manual pull down). I have some compressed air for dust removal to help with it. I think i'd leave the screen up but the retraction is very hard to work. I think I might pop the whole screen out of the screws in the wall.


I think I plan on putting some velcro on the bottom corners of the of the pull down bar so the screen will kind of stay put when the A/C comes on. Screen looks good so far. I'll be sitting about 11 and a half feet back with the 92" screen.


Thanks!


Sam


----------



## Kamikaze13

I have a 92" GW2 and unfortunately when I retracted the screen somehow a couple of moths got squished onto the screen. The next day I pulled down the screen to find dried moth and guts stained onto the screen. I tried to gently remove the stain but was unsuccessful. Then I noticed I had completely rubbed off the finish in one spot of the screen. I now have a golf ball sized spot in the middle of my screen that is very noticable on bright scenes.







I am hoping there is some sort of repair paint to recoat that spot, I am guessing not but if anyone knows of anything please let me know. You would think they would have a way to fix that sort of thing.


----------



## iggymama

Same thing happened with my HP screen, which is supposed to be washable, but I had to scrub pretty hard to get off all the stupid moth stain that I didn't realize I had rubbed off a small spot of the finish. Godammed little moths! Can't get rid of them once they get in the house (in cereals, nuts, grains, clothes, etc.). They fly in front of my screen as I'm watching, being attracted by the light! Really annoying!


Anyhow, I got a bunch of samples from Dalite before buying the screen, so I got the idea of cutting a piece off the sample and gluing it to the screen with a tiny bit of sylastic (flexible) adhesive, trying really carefully not to let the adhesive overflow the patch (not easy!). It looks a LOT better, although I can still see the edges of the patch.


I don't know if that would work for the GW material (or if you can get samples), being glass beaded, but it's a thought. You have to be really careful not to overflow the glue or you will see it!


----------



## Orta

I wasn't aware such a massive Greywolf thread existed. I wish I had found this before I tried one. To toss in my 2 cents, I wasn't just disappointed with the 92" Greywolf II, I was offended. Being a new PJ, I didn't have any problems with grey whites, but the sparkles and visible texture were some of the worst image quality flaws I have ever laid eyes on. I guess you might over look them on a dimming bulb paired with a moderate amount of ambient light, but if you try to argue any other conditions, I'd probably recommend an eye exam. I was shooting straight on from the mid line and center point of the screen in a fully darkened room, but optimal positioning did nothing to enhance this things performance. My opinion is to stay very far away unless you're looking for a bargain screen for a dimmer unit in a slightly brightened room.


Iggymama, are you referring to a Da-Lite HP? Do you have any experience with the Greywolf so as to draw comparisons. Are the sparkles and texture anywhere near as visible? The HP is also a glass beaded material isn't it?


----------



## bqmeister

I've used both an HP and graywolf II.


I completely agree with the texture and sparklies issues with the graywolf II.


the HP does NOT exhibit these flaws. The HP is glass beaded, but much smaller beads and a very very smooth surface. The surface completely disappears with the HP - no screen texture at all.


I highly recommend the HP.


----------



## iggymama

I agree with you both, although I'm not sure the HP is glass beaded. It looks nothing like the GW. It's very bright when your are in the cone, almost too bright in some cases, like with snow or clouds. I use an 81EF filter on my Panny AX100 PJ (a bright PJ) to mellow the image with the HP screen, and it looks great. Even a Dalite Matte White screen looks way better than either GW screen from any angle!


----------



## iggymama

Oh, and the filter improves the black levels, which the HP screen is lacking, once the PJ is properly calibrated.


----------



## bqmeister




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *iggymama* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I agree with you both, although I'm not sure the HP is glass beaded. It looks nothing like the GW. It's very bright when your are in the cone, almost too bright in some cases, like with snow or clouds. I use an 81EF filter on my Panny AX100 PJ (a bright PJ) to mellow the image with the HP screen, and it looks great. Even a Dalite Matte White screen looks way better than either GW screen from any angle!



I didn't think it was glass beaded, but was corrected here about a month ago or so.

It uses much much smaller glass beads and coats them afterwards for the smooter, texture free surface.


----------



## Orta

Where did you guys buy your HP's from if you don't mind my asking?


----------



## Itsdon

Got mine from Jason here at AVScience - great price, great service.


----------



## iggymama

Jason, too!


----------



## sambow87

Just wondering, is it a problem to leave the Greywolf II 92" manual pull down screen down all the time? I have a can of compressed air for dust, but do I really need to roll it back up in the case?


----------



## bqmeister

Got mine from Jason. Great transaction.


Sambow, I had my graywolf pulled down all the time. I think it's probably better for it to do that. Less chance of messing up the rolling mechanism if you don't use it. I only rolled it up when I needed access to the window behind the screen (seldom). I keep my hipower down all the time too.


I probably would've opted for a fixed screen except for the window behind the screen and the fact that pulldowns are generally significantly cheaper than fixed, for the same quality.


----------



## lax01




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sambow87* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wondering, is it a problem to leave the Greywolf II 92" manual pull down screen down all the time? I have a can of compressed air for dust, but do I really need to roll it back up in the case?



Have had my GWI down for over 2 years...no problems...I don't even clean it off


----------



## Orta

Thanks for the recommendations guys, what was the order time on those things? I had to pick up a matte white Draper after returning this Greywolf II, but I was just looking for something quick and cheap. I think I'm probably going to pick up the HP in a couple months.


----------



## sambow87

Thanks for the responses! I am going to keep it down as much as possible. It might go up today since they are redoing the counter tops in the apartment (not sure if they are going to sand it or not) but for the most part it is going to be kept down.


My only problem right now, with the pull down screen (would be any pull down, not just Graywolf) is that when the AC comes on it tends to move a little bit. I tried putting some velcro on the ends of the pull down bar but it still does it. I only noticed it once when I was watching 300 but I was thinking of either getting a string to attach to the bottom of the hook and my center speaker stand or applying some velcro on the black border at the very bottom (like in the left and right corners). Would this be advisable or are there any other ways of doing this?


One other thing. I have light coming in from sliding glass doors (on the opposite wall is the screen). It does not look like direct sunlight would ever really hit the PJ screen, but is it bad for any natural light to hit it (I know i'm being overly paranoid but this is my first FP and screen configuration I have messed with).


Thanks again for all the responses, really helped me a lot!


Sam


----------



## iggymama

Waves were another reason I hated the GW screens. No waves are visible on the HP. Even though there are a few waves (from the material getting pulled out of the bottom rod - my fault - you can't see them when viewing. Really bad SPARKLIES (and dingy whites) were way too annoying from my 9 foot seating distance!


----------



## westernjohn

I just installed my replacement Graywolf II motorized 106" screen and am having motor problems. There is clicking from the low-voltage switches when the hand-controller, remote, and projector trigger are initiated, but the up/down motor never activates. The screen is down because i gave it a slight pull to engage the motor once. But it won't go back up.


I've tried readjusting the limit switches with no significant differences. This is the second screen from the factory that "clicks but doesn't move." Any ideas what's up with this product?


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lax01* /forum/post/11307579
> 
> 
> Have had my GWI down for over 2 years...no problems...I don't even clean it off



I've had my GWII down for a year - no problems. I dust it rarely.


Also - though I've said it before - the Greywolf II has no sparklies that I have ever seen. (The GWI did tho)


----------



## waykohler

Hello.


I just got an electric GWII screen.


When I mount it on my wall as high up as I can and let the motor pull the screen all the way down it almost touches the floor and is way to far down.


One of the reasons I bought this screen was to use the 12v switch so it goes down when I turn the projector on.


Anyone knows if you can change where/when the motor stops pulling down the screen? I could not find anything in the manual.


EDIT: Well, dumb me. I guess The thing I was missing was what to google on. If someone else gets here "Limit switches" is what you want to search for..


----------



## [Europe]Boogiem

OT about moth problem on screen 


You probably have the "small moths" that live on flour-based food - in sweden they are called "flour-moths".

I had the same problem, contacted a pesticide company in sweden who told me to throw away all old flour-based food from my cabinet, then they sprayed som goo in there and i waited a couple of days for it to still down and then bought new food.


Since then they are totally gone.


----------



## GardenVariety

I have experienced something quite bizarre. A year ago I purchased a 92" graywolf 2 fixed screen. I have used it up until recently when the spot (which can't be cleaned) in the right corner of the screen became too much of a distraction. I recently purchased a 92" pull down version of the same screen (until I can afford a firehawk) Although they both say Graywolf 2 on them. The fixed screen had considerably more sparkles on it then the pulldown I just purchased. I am confused. Could the Fixed Screen have been a Graywolf 1 in a Graywolf 2 frame? WTF?


----------



## jonnyozero3

Running product line changes and improvements, maybe?


----------



## daddibox

I just bought a GRAYWOLF II 106E..


I got everything installed, hooked up the 12v to my projector, set the projector to trigger, the screen came down!!! Lokks goos, BUT


now I can't get the screen to go back up!!! I freekin' tried everything...


can somebody help me out, or is there something I'm missing?!?!?!


THANKS!!!


----------



## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jonnyozero3* /forum/post/12922731
> 
> 
> Running product line changes and improvements, maybe?



I dont know - I can't see any sparklies in my GWII - but they were easy to spot in my GWI


----------



## thebigeast44

I purchased a 92' pull down Greywolf II to go with my Panny AX-200. I'm returning it and replacing with a Carada 106' fixed frame Brilliant White.


I did not like the Greywolf due to the texture on the screen - it created a graininess to the picture that precluded the seeing through a window effect of good HD. You could see the sparklies as well. The minimum viewing angle was another drawback. The most serious drawback by far though was the screen texture. For that reason alone, I would not recommend this product.


----------



## foofoobar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thebigeast44* /forum/post/12967208
> 
> 
> I purchased a 92' pull down Greywolf II to go with my Panny AX-200. I'm returning it and replacing with a Carada 106' fixed frame Brilliant White.
> 
> 
> I did not like the Greywolf due to the texture on the screen - it created a graininess to the picture that precluded the seeing through a window effect of good HD. You could see the sparklies as well. The minimum viewing angle was another drawback. The most serious drawback by far though was the screen texture. For that reason alone, I would not recommend this product.



I concur completely with the texture comment -- it was impossible to watch movies with a lot of brightness in them.


Is this a problem with HD-content only is there some "rainbow effect" element to it, i.e., only some people are affected by it? Considering the fact that these screens have enjoyed a fair degree of success, it must not bother everyone...


----------



## lithiumus

I'm considering the GWII motorized as a cheap entry screen. I pretty much have to go motorized as the wife does not want a fixed screen installed. I wonder if the electric vs. pulldown has the same issue with waves? I'll be using a Panny AX200U rear shelf mounted about 18 feet away.


----------



## foofoobar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lithiumus* /forum/post/13087795
> 
> 
> I'm considering the GWII motorized as a cheap entry screen. I pretty much have to go motorized as the wife does not want a fixed screen installed. I wonder if the electric vs. pulldown has the same issue with waves? I'll be using a Panny AX200U rear shelf mounted about 18 feet away.



If your only criterion is a well built cheap electric screen, I would recommend looking at the Flexio screens from HTDepot.


If you really want a high gain gray 1.8 screen (not my choice BTW), they do have a (cheaper) electric screen that seems virtually identical to the GWII.


Anyway, most non-tensioned pulldown or electric screens will have some degree of problem with waves and curling. Depending on your tolerance level, you may want to opt for a tensioned screen...


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## MUCHO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thebigeast44* /forum/post/12967208
> 
> 
> I purchased a 92' pull down Greywolf II to go with my Panny AX-200. I'm returning it and replacing with a Carada 106' fixed frame Brilliant White.
> 
> 
> I did not like the Greywolf due to the texture on the screen - it created a graininess to the picture that precluded the seeing through a window effect of good HD. You could see the sparklies as well. The minimum viewing angle was another drawback. The most serious drawback by far though was the screen texture. For that reason alone, I would not recommend this product.



I have to agree with you on the texture. On any scene with a lot of white or other light color it is easy to spot and annoying.


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## R Harkness

Today I happened upon a set-up (in a store) using an Optima projector and a Graywolf screen. I don't know which gen the screen was (but I'm pretty sure the projection room was a new addition to the store)...but the screen structure was just brutal.


Admittedly I'm pretty sensitive to screen artifacts, but this was frankly the worst I've experienced on a projection screen. For bright images it actually made the image hard to watch for me, the sparkly screen overlaying the image was so distracting.


FWIW.


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## foofoobar




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/13133370
> 
> 
> Admittedly I'm pretty sensitive to screen artifacts, but this was frankly the worst I've experienced on a projection screen. For bright images it actually made the image hard to watch for me, the sparkly screen overlaying the image was so distracting.
> 
> 
> FWIW.



Try watching "The Shining" with this screen -- it gives a all too literal interpretation of of the title







.


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## engtaz

What are the differences between Graywolf and Graywolf II?


Thanks,

engtaz


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## LelandHendrix

There's a guy on ebay with 36 of the Greywolf 109" pull down, grey with 1.8 gain, and if you offer him $20.99 for it (it's a buy-it-now or make-an-offer ebay listing) he will accept it.


I got my screen and put it over a window and in full daylight this screen blocks ALL THE LIGHT BEHIND IT, with no bleed.


It has dramatically enhanced the blacks with my Optoma 617 ( 2000 lumens, always using 1600 in eco mode)


If you are using a dlp like mine is and you have a setting like I do for "White Peaking," you can dial that waaaay down to get a very natural tone--otherwise your whites will clip badly and be distracting on this high-gain screen.


My projector is ceiling mounted, as well, which causes any seated viewers to be slightly out of the most reflective zone, but it looks great when standing, too--just more bold.


Be aware--this screen gives much more of a film feeling, and screen door effect (SDE) is greatly reduced or completely obliterated.

*IF YOU TAKE THE TIME, to calibrate your projector using something even as simple as the wizard in Vista Media Center (which is what I use) you can have a FANTASTIC viewing experience with this screen.


I use a projector because I like to best recreate a movie-going experience. That's what this screen does, you see the what some people describe as sparkles are really just the re-creation of film grain, which makes viewing much more big-cinema like. Heck, it says professional cinema screen on the side of the box.*


If you haven't seen this, again think of a deep gray with glass beads that give 1.8 gain--you get blacker blacks and no color shift, and the glass completely eliminates the pixelation of screen door--rendering an image MUCH more like film. IMO, much more like a projector displaying 35mm film reels. How much closer can you get?



If you have any questions, please ask me. I'm not trying to sell these screens, I'm just a customer, and I'm going to share where they are available at a low cost, _just like people did in the beginning of this thread._



Ebay Item number: 200263407349 , "Panoview Graywolf DS-9106PM 106" Cinema Display Screen"

Just go to ebay and paste that number in the search box.


Right now there are 35 left, and I have to say that my experience with this vendor has been quite good. These are apparently b-stock or the result of some of the people in this thread that didn't care for it and sent it back, or returned it b/c they found one somewhere else for $20 less. They also have matte white (Item number: 200265999944 or Item number: 200266005711). And they have 96" (150305107822) in 4:3 or 106" like I got in 16:9, 200263407349


Anyway, mine came in the manufacturer's box and still had the strong smell associated with the new ones. That smell was quite distinct after I had it pulled down and I immediately realized what had been mentioned earlier in the thread. It had to air out quite a bit.


Anyway, guys... 20.99 for the screen. Can you possibly beat that?


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## LelandHendrix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *engtaz* /forum/post/14421113
> 
> 
> What are the differences between Graywolf and Graywolf II?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> engtaz



BUMP!


I'd really like to know this, too. I have a first edition, and wonder exactly what is "upgraded" in Greywolf II.


I think (do not assume true) that I heard someone describe it as having a wider optimum viewing cone.


I still think the 100 degrees originally specified is quite optimistic.


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## kkw3221

Hi. I am in the market for my second screen.


How do you think about the combination of those two?


Is it better to get white matte instead of gray?


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## heiwi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kkw3221* /forum/post/15167178
> 
> 
> Hi. I am in the market for my second screen.
> 
> 
> How do you think about the combination of those two?
> 
> 
> Is it better to get white matte instead of gray?




I use the Graywolf II with the HD65 and it is spectacular in my set up. Make sure you don't sit too far from the center axis and have a table top set up. Not good for ceiling mount pj since this screen is retro reflective. This screen is also perfect for not light controlled rooms during the day. With the high lumens of this HD65 you can easily watch during daytime with this screen.

Have no hot spots as you might have on glass beaded screens. Make sure you calibrate brightness and contrast properly - could be too bright at night.

My manual pull down graywolf is hanging now for over 3 years and there are no waves at all. I roll it up every time after use. In my conditions a perfect screen for the HD65.


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## Topsel

Hi everybody,


I'm looking for an input on this combo DE-GWII9120E and Yamaha DPX-1000 DLP? The projector is a used unit but the screen I think will be brand new, should I go with the fixed rather than motorized? Should I be concerned about wrinkles later down the road on the motorized unit? Is there a better match for this projector? Any input will be helpfull







thanks in advanced.


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## durazor

I just bought this screen for $134 at one of the closing Circuit City stores here in Sacto & was wondering can someone recommend a good Projector for it.


I just don't know which direction to go, as far as DLP, LCD LCOS etc...


My price range is somewhere around $1,500-$2,000


Thanks for your input!


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## FLBoy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *durazor* /forum/post/15873973
> 
> 
> I just bought this screen for $134 at one of the closing Circuit City stores here in Sacto & was wondering can someone recommend a good Projector for it.
> 
> 
> I just don't know which direction to go, as far as DLP, LCD LCOS etc...
> 
> 
> My price range is somewhere around $1,500-$2,000
> 
> 
> Thanks for your input!



This screen is retroreflective and will perform best if you get a projector that can be mounted at viewer's eye level. Most LCD projectors in your price range can. Most DLP projectors cannot. LCOS can, but is probably not in your price range. If you want to ceiling mount your projector, you bought the wrong screen.


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## Haydee

I got the motorized one, but I lost the wall bracket. Is there any replacements you can use for them? I tried emailing Optima, and they said they don't sell the brackets individually.


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## Chadci

I used L shelf brackets with a center support for my screen. I used to have a 92" Graywolf 1 manual pull down and now a 119" DaLite HP screen and they have both been perfectly sturdy on the $10 brackets... I even painted them out to match the wall. My HP screen is for sale as I need to downsize but I'll continue to use the brackets.


Basically, I ran an eye bolt through the top screw down hole of the bracket and then you can either use an S hook to connect the screen to the eye but I used a locking O ring to keep it secure... Just make sure you get the brackets in a stud, I would not trust anchors with a screen.


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## neo_2009

I've a chance to buy the 92" GREY WOLF II, fixed frame, for about 170$.


My room is surrounded by white walls, and the projector will be ceiling mounted, 7,5 feet from floor, at a 100 feet distance.


The projector its a new Mits HC3100.


I've read the guitarman review using the HD79 (almost equal to HC3100), and i understand that for best results the projector should be table mounted, but i'm curious if the GWII, in this conditions would be a good buy at that price.


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## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neo_2009* /forum/post/19865062
> 
> 
> I've a chance to buy the 92" GREY WOLF II, fixed frame, for about 170$.
> 
> 
> My room is surrounded by white walls, and the projector will be ceiling mounted, 7,5 feet from floor, at a 100 feet distance.
> 
> 
> The projector its a new Mits HC3100.
> 
> 
> I've read the guitarman review using the HD79 (almost equal to HC3100), and i understand that for best results the projector should be table mounted, but i'm curious if the GWII, in this conditions would be a good buy at that price.



You sure that you are trying to do 100 foot throw distance? Based of of the model of projector you are using the the screen size you have, the absolute MAX throw distance you can do is 13 feet 3 inches.


check projectorcentral's website it has a pretty comprehensive calculator for projectors: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...ulator-pro.htm 


-Josh


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## neo_2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by *umdivx* 
You sure that you are trying to do 100 foot throw distance?

-Josh


I'm sorry, i've made a mistake







I wanted to say 10 foot (3m).


Regarding my setup, would the gray wolf be a good choice ?


----------



## umdivx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *neo_2009* /forum/post/19866124
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, i've made a mistake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to say 10 foot (3m).
> 
> 
> Regarding my setup, would the gray wolf be a good choice ?



3meters it too close to get 92" diagonal. the shortest throw distance you can do is 10 feet 11 inches, so 3.3274 meters.


Your ideal throw distance should be 12 feet or 3.6576 meters.


The largest screen you can do at 10 feet/3meters is and 85" diagonal screen.


-Josh


----------



## neo_2009

I forgot about this thread










I managed to get the greywolf 92" fixed screen (refurbished) for about 150$, and the combination with the HC3100 is Amazing !!!!


In the seating position i loose about 20% of brightness comparing to a standing position, but even with the lamp in low mode, it is an amazing combination.


The grey screen really helps with the white walls and the velvet frame adds another level perceiving the film boundaries.


When viewing 1.85:1 films , it seems a gigantic plasma :-D


----------



## Dave Mack

Can anyone find a 92" gray wolf ii?


I have the original and I have heard the ii is better


Thanks


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## Robert Fitzgerald

*GrayWolf 2*

I have the fixed frame 120 inch graywolf 2 and the Epson 5030UB 2400 lumen projector. My projector is 15 feet from the screen and my room is 18W X 20L and I have to admit the screen is absolutely flawless in my opinion and yes it's bright but it's a 1.8. I would not trade it for another one at all. Very happy with it.


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## CoryW

I've been using the 92" pulldown GrayWolf II for almost 10 years now! I still love it and even enjoy the fact that my HC8000 is ceiling mounted because I lose a good bit of gain in the seated position and the perceived black level is improved.

I wonder what gain I'm actually getting at seated level.... 

Also at seated level with less punch, the screen texture is barely even noticeable.


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## FFWD

Does anyone know how to pair the IR remote to the screen? My screen works with manual wired control. The remote battery died a couple years ago, and when I replaced the battery, it still didn't work. The red LED on the remote wasn't lighting up when any of the buttons were pressed. Thinking this was an Elunevision screen (long story), I followed their remote reset procedure (hold stop for 10 seconds). The red LED on the remote flashed twice, but still nothing. Pressing the stop button results in the red LED coming on for as long as I hold it, but does not light up when pressing up or down.


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## FFWD

I have also tried a loading a couple of the Optoma Panovision Graywolf devices in my Harmony Hub, but they also don't work.


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