# Best DVR for Over-the-Air recording



## nwest

I found a great thread answering my question, but it's several years old:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1178472/best-dvr-recorder-for-over-the-air-use 


I just want to cut the ties with my cable company, and I get several channels OTA that I'd like to record. I just need a good, cheap DVR, with HD tuner(s), no monthly subscription, and a nice interface (pause, rewind, fast-forward, stop/resume without hassles). I'm hooking up directly to my TV, not my PC. I really like the chart in the other thread. Can someone post an updated version of this chart for 2013?


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## nwest

Forget the chart. Can anyone recommend a good DVR I can hook up to my TV with the following features:


OTA HD tuner(s)

HDMI output

No monthly fees

Simple interface that works similar to a Comcast DVR


Any success stories? I know I can't be the first person trying to do this...


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## [email protected]

I was in the same dilemma two years ago and I settled with the Tivo Premiere and I've been paying the monthly fee.


It's a shame, because honestly the Tivo Premiere is one of the worst devices I've ever used. Locks up constantly, reboots take forever, and the netflix client is terrible.


I wish there was a clear cut answer for this. Seems like a really good opportunity for someone to build something awesome to disrupt this space. But I guess that won't happen until Google or Apple decide to build something to address the problem.


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## gusman1

I just bought a Digital Stream DPH-1000R HDTV receiver from Amazon. It has dual digital tuner, HDMI & component output and has 320 GB hard drive. It records in HD from the OTA or clear QAM. There is a thread here on AVS Forum discussing it under the name RCA. The PQ of the HD tuner is not quite as good as my Vizio, but over all I am happy with it. It sells for $235 at Amazon and other online retailers. The TVguide is based on PSIP data put out by TV stations. There is no subscription.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1402738/rca-dph-1000r-hdtv-recorder


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## Josea

NWest see http://www.amazon.com/Magnavox-MDR537H-Recorder-Digital-Tuner/dp/B009I5KWLK and check out the review by Wajo - there is a huge thread on this site (referenced in the review) if this piques your interest , I had one in my cart at walmart.com for $258.00 yesterday but when I checked out and assigned a payment method it jumped to $278 so I got angry and canceled it. (I would have also got a 20 dollar rebate because I opened a credit card )

Thanks Gusman1 I will look at that unit, I much prefer buying from Amazon


Not to be a PITA but this thread should be in a different sub forum for better exposure.


NWest, you specs are exactly what I need... do you only want a new unit? (I do)


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## texaspledge

I think this may be a little more complex than what you are looking for but for information sake, i was in the same situation as you last year. I ended up adding a tuner and antenna to my home PC, running media center and using Xbox 360s as extenders.


While it is more complicated, you have the benefit of a whole house DVR and the media center DVR is by far the best interface I've used.


Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2


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## scoosdad

This looks like it might be what you need:

http://www.channelmaster.com/Digital_TV_and_HDTV_HD_digital_recorder_CM_7000PAL_DVR_s/120.htm


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## rxheaven

Just know that the Magnavox units aren't HD. But they do "upconvert" to HD.


This means less PQ, but more efficient use of HDD recording space.


Been using the MDR513 for over a year, and once you figure out the limitations (no guide, single tuner, no HD) etc, it's still the best bang for the buck and most user-friendly for OTA users.


The Channel Master might be my second choice, because it's HD, but it has its own issues.


There's very limited options/manufacturers available, because of copyright issues and lobbying etc. It's a shame.


With the 65$ I save per month not having cable TV, I can replace it with 2 or 3 "movie nights". Or you can subscribe to Nexflix or Hulu Plus etc for less $$$ and enjoy the content in the confort of your home. There are so many better options than subscription TV.


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## Josea

AFA channel Master, what do you mean it is HD, it has its own issues?

I was ready to order one, but read a few reviews that the "7000" overheats (in fact one guy had to add a notebook cooler) http://reviews.walmart.com/1336/13968952/channel-master-cm-7000pal-antenna-compatible-dvr-reviews/reviews.htm?page=2 

I also looked that the CM 7400 and on Amazon the one star reviews are double the 5 star & the overheating seems to also occur to some..


I just want to record OTA. I have a laptop with a fault display but a decent video card (ATI 5870M with 1 GB) - 2 internal hard drives (80 GB SSD for OS and 500 GIG for storage). Does anyone make an external tuner that I could use with it and is there any software that will allow me to record OTA on the laptop (it only has HDMI out).

My internet speed is 5 Mb/s up and 4Mb/s down. PS no room for a desktop


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## leftcoastjayhawk

Josea, I have no personal experience with it, but I think the SiliconDust HDHomerun (not the Homerun Prime, which is a cablecard tuner) might be the thing to use with your laptop. It tunes OTA channels, and attaches via USB. Then, if your laptop is using Windows 7, Microsoft's Windows Media Center is included and it will provide the DVR functions and user interface, including channel guide info, that you need. (I think Media Center is on Windows Vista, also.)


I have recently added an internal tuner card to a PC (a cablecard tuner, since I'm on a cable company feed) and turned it into a DVR using Media Center and I'm very pleased with it. Have even added a couple of Ceton Echo extenders so a couple of bedroom TVs now work off of it also, in addition to the family room TV where the HTPC is located. Took some tweaking to get everything working, but now I can cancel my cable company DVR equipment fees.


Hope this helps. There are a number of active threads in the Home Theater PC (HTPC) forums here about using a pc and Media Center for a DVR.


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## Josea

Thaniks a lot LeftCoastJayHawk... that helps a lot, I did not want to "settle" for a Magnavox 5 series and this seems to be an excellent solution!


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## mhufnagel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Josea*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording#post_22899717
> 
> 
> Thaniks a lot LeftCoastJayHawk... that helps a lot, I did not want to "settle" for a Magnavox 5 series and this seems to be an excellent solution!


Just to let your know, the Silicon Dust HDHR3 connects via ethernet and not usb. It's made to connect to a network, but you can still connect it to an ethernet port on a pc/laptop. You might need to alter your Windows Firewall settings though. And I agree that Windows Media Center is more usable than a Magnavox dvd recorder as a dvr because it has a guide.


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## hifiaudio2

Been using two HDhomerun units paired to ClearQam cable and OTA for years now. Windows media center works quite well most of the time.. minor tweaking or small issues every once in a while, but no deal breakers. And of course you get all the flexibility that comes with a PC. Just connect the HdHomeruns to your network and every PC on your network that is running Windows media center can choose from the pool of tuners the Hdhomerun provides, which means you can have more than the two tuners offered in these standalone boxes. You can have up to 6 in Windows, and more with a simple registry hack. You can also buy "extenders" that can communicate with the main PC in your setup. These can be devices like the Ceton extender, or an Xbox 360.


If you dont want to run Windows Media center, XBMC Frodo can do most of these same features. I have been playing around with it a little, and have not successfully set up the DVR and live TV with guide yet. But its certainly possible.


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## northernlight11

It has a few bugs, but I use the tvix 6620n plus, and I LOVE IT!!! http://www.avsforum.com/t/1195962/official-dvico-tvix-m6620n-hd-atsc-qam-tuner-topic , you can find em for $300 without hdd and worth every cent


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## gaidin43

Buy a TiVo premiere with a lifetime subscription off eBay. It will be the best interface easiest to use and most accessible and expandable over the years. It is better than paying for the monthly subscription and not getting anything out of it in the end.


This way you have something of value that is very easy to set up plug-and-play and be done with it the guy data and the rest of the features it offers is the best all-around solution. The Netflix app has been revised it is actually not all that bad anymore


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## mdwest

I have exactly the same question. Cable and satellite are expensive and

customer service terrible. I'm buying an antenna and want to record the

relatively few shows I watch. Any recommendations on DVR devices that

connect to TV (not PC) and handle HD?


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## WizzardofWatts

The Tvix M6640n is expensive and it does not come with a hard drive. The hard drives that can be used in them are expensive and hard to find, Even with these problems it is the future of over the air DVRs. It's software is a version of google's very stable android platform. Pair it with a media jukebox (from TVIX) & it is a joy to own. I have used them all & this is the best. It has played every video and audio file type I have thrown at it.


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## dschulz

I went through this search a couple of years ago. There are many ways to go if you are using a Home Theater PC (HTPC), or do most of your viewing on computers or otherwise somehow on the internet. If what you want is a piece of home theater equipment that is basically plug and play via HDMI, I found only two options:


1) The Channel Master CM-7000PAL. Readily available from Amazon and other retailers, a bit pricey for what you get IMHO. Upside is it does exactly what you want, which is basically the same functionality that VCRs had but for broadcast HDTV. Downside is it has a fairly clunky interface, and according to some has spotty reliability (I've been using mine for 2 years and have had no problems so far).


2) Tivo. Upside is the user experience - nice interface, and the system is "smart" in the sense that it knows you mean to record specific programming, not time slots. If your show is delayed 10 minutes because the baseball game on previously ran long, Tivo is usually smart enough to pick that up. The Channel Master is just dumb clock, recording Channel 7 at 8:00pm for 2 hours. Downside to Tivo is in addition to the cost of the box, there is a monthly fee.


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## gdadv10

I bought the *DTV-PAL DVR* that Dish network made three years ago and absolutely love it. I think it died on me last night though. It showed it had strong signal strength, but no picture. I had been using it with an old Zenith tube TV, but bought a new Samsung 40" LCD TV a couple of months ago. It worked great after hooking it up with an HDMI cable. I'm thinking the antenna converter thing wore out?


They stopped making it, but others have said it is the exact same thing as the *Channel Master 7000*. But the PAL only cost $165 (maybe it was $265?) so I'm hesitant to buy the CM 7000 for $340 just yet. They had it on sale a few months ago for cheaper. But if it lasts 2 years, that is only about $16 a month. I refuse to spend $100 a month on cable just to have a DVR.


A great feature they both share is the 30 second skip button. Yes, these are simple machines, but I find the remote and functions much more intuitive than my Mom's Time Warner Cable DVR.


With the PAL, there were some software bugs, the biggest is not recording shows set to record, so I wonder if the same work around will work the the CM. Actually, I wonder if it is the exact same software. For example, if you have one show set to record at 8pm, and two set to record at 9pm, about 30% of the time the PAL won't record both 9pm shows. The work around is to set two shows to record at 8pm too.


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## videobruce

I don't know why the modulators added this sub forum since there already is a DVR forum;
http://www.avsforum.com/f/42/hdtv-recorders 


The differences between a PVR and a DVR are really debatable, but they are both practically the same thing. Anyway, there is a thread that has a list of HD DVR's that are not computers or media streamers here;
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460149/updated-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs-in-the-us


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## oshunluvr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WizzardofWatts*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording#post_23149613
> 
> 
> The Tvix M6640n is expensive and it does not come with a hard drive. The hard drives that can be used in them are expensive and hard to find, Even with these problems it is the future of over the air DVRs. It's software is a version of google's very stable android platform. Pair it with a media jukebox (from TVIX) & it is a joy to own. I have used them all & this is the best. It has played every video and audio file type I have thrown at it.


Other than it being expensive, the information about the TViX 6640/6620 is incorrect. It has some issues for sure - hard drive cost is not one of them. Any standard SATA 3.5" hard drive works. So will 2.5" if you have a 3.5" adapter.


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## videobruce




> Quote:
> the information about the TViX 6640/6620 is incorrect.


Where? In the DVR comparison thread, or elsewhere?


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## png5




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *videobruce*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording#post_23350264
> 
> 
> Where? In the DVR comparison thread, or elsewhere?



Below are consumer DVR/PVR comparison,
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460149/updated-list-of-consumer-available-dvrs-in-the-us 


I only have couple of devices experience.

I get IVIEW-3500STB first and get another simular HOMEWORX HW150PVR

My intension is to replace VCR, which is ready to die anytime

For IVIEW-3500STB - Daily/Weekly Record fail because fail to calculate the next record date correctly,

still waiting for FIRMWARE correction, is a broken product ,

Another bad is remote button, very small and cloud, not user friendly


For HOMEWORX HW-150PVR - All major function work, Daily/Weekly Recording.

It still no a user friendly product, such as key sequence and layout.

Remote is ok, 1000 times better then IVIEW-3500.


Both can record with a FAST USB flash drive. I use Corsair Voyager 64GB (double the price of HOMEWORX or IV3500)


So far for me, HOMEWORX HW-1500PVR is a workable and functional daily product. Util IVIEW-3500STB fix firmware,

IVIEW-3500STB is broken product.


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## cjvnyc

I just bought the "Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-950Q USB TV Tuner Stick/Hybrid Video Recorder with Remote Control" from Newegg for $45 after $20 mail-in rebate. The PQ thru the stick for OTA is absolutely fantastic- better than my FiOS. The tuner is very sensitive, rendering stations my TV refuses to on its own. I'm not (yet) using Media Center- so far I just have a browser window open to TitanTV and another to the Recordings Scheduler. And the Recordings are equally beautiful in terms of PQ. I'm going to play around a bit with it to try to tune it to optimize the performance, as it takes almost 40 seconds to wake up to record, tune the station, buffer, then finally render and record. HD stations recordings files roughly 7GB/hour.


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## hifiaudio2

I second a media PC with Windows... also you might want to give Jriver media center a try. The TV part of it, along with guide data and time shifting, has finally come far enough that it is a viable, and possibly better, option for Clear Qam and OTA. I dont have a cable card so I havent tested that part.


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## wizwor

Good news on this front: echostar is going to make a new line of DVRs for Channel Master...

http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/echostar-to-release-two-new-ota-dvrs/ 


I have five DTVPals and while I have a 'whole house' DVR that feeds Plex for streaming to Rokus, almost everything is recorded from air to DTVPal in my house.


> Quote:
> EchoStar states that the Channel Master K77 models will combine access to broadcast programming with over-the-top and DVR functionalities, promoting consumer choice in both retail equipment and in services for households seeking a non-MVPD option for video programming. EchoStar maintains that requiring an analog tuner “would dramatically increase the device’s cost, size, and energy consumption without any countervailing benefits to consumers.”


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## calculon68

I was using the Silicon Dust HD Homerun in conjunction with WMC to record OTA for past 3-4 years. Viewed the recordings on the desktop and on my downstairs TV using the BD player via DLNA/network. It worked well- but I found it kludgey at times. WMC would record reruns *and* first runs, when all I wanted were first-runs. Sometimes it wouldn't see _available tuners_ on the HD Homerun and I occasionally missed a recording . Playback options on the BD player were limited, you couldn't FF/REW without it advancing to the next recorded program in the folder. And I did not want to put a HTPC in the living room.


I also have a TiVo HD that I purchased in 2007. The series 3 TiVos are OTA capable and have excellent tuners, and I had DIY-expanded the record drive to 750GB (roughly 100 HD hrs) in 2008. I cut the cord in 2010, and cancelled TiVo in 2011. After I cancelled, TiVo kept spamming me offers to pay a one-time price for lifetime support on my TiVo HD. When the price got down to $50, I pulled the trigger. The HD Homerun is hardly used now. And although the DVR is six+ years old; I'm going to drive it until the HDD dies. TiVo is still the best OTA DVR experience.


The lifetime TiVos w/ expanded storage have strong resale value on eBay. ($250-400) That is your least expensive bet if you don't want to go the WMC/HTPC route.


And TiVo unveiled an entry level OTA-friendly DVR called Roamio that's $200 + $15/mo. (only 75 HD hours) A Roamio plus lifetime support would set you back $700.


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## wizwor

I did that too (HDHR to WMC), but WAF was not there. She likes to pause/rewind/record via remote. I have come close to buying a TiVo on a couple occasions, but it's $700 per room. I only paid $1k for my five DTVPals -- and one has a 1t disk.


It's great that echostar is back. I got a note from them a short time ago. The new DVRs will be available for Christmas. There will be two versions -- one with internal storage PLUS USB and the other with only USB. There will be a program guide as well.

http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/echostar-dvr-details/


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## freetvEE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wizwor*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording#post_23652901
> 
> 
> I did that too (HDHR to WMC), but WAF was not there. She likes to pause/rewind/record via remote. I have come close to buying a TiVo on a couple occasions, but it's $700 per room. I only paid $1k for my five DTVPals -- and one has a 1t disk.
> 
> 
> It's great that echostar is back. I got a note from them a short time ago. The new DVRs will be available for Christmas. There will be two versions -- one with internal storage PLUS USB and the other with only USB. There will be a program guide as well.
> 
> http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/echostar-dvr-details/



I know what you mean on the WAF, there are a lot of complicated solutions out there if you aren't techy. Sounds like you just didn't have the right remote for your WMC setup, there are several good ones that have all of those functions plus a built in mouse too-so you can hit up any website you want unrestricted! Not only does it hit the WAF, but my 4 year old can even use it to play a show and skip commercials... :eek


Thanks for the info on the new DVRs, hopefully they will work in practice as good as they sound in theory-also curious on what the prices will be too.


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## wizwor

People look at television in different ways. I don't think it's particularly useful to try to convince the world that one way is better than the others. I just try to let people know what the options are -- hopefully, providing sufficient information that they can make an informed decision they will not regret.


I love television and have no memory of there being no television. I have embraced every iteration from broadcast to cable to satellite and back to cable then broadcast with a smattering of OTT. I think cable is amazing but our favorite premium provider was Dish.


My decision to cut the cable was a complicated one. Ronald Reagan famously said, "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me." I feel the same way about Comcast. I didn't leave because their prices were too high. I left because, increasingly, their service did not meet my needs. The idea that I needed a box to watch HD channels did not appeal to me. HBO going from movies I wanted to see to nitwits talking sports and politics did not appeal to me. Waking to infomercials did not appeal to me. But there was more to the decision than that. I live in rural New Hampshire and deregulation of the utilities has lead to routine power outages of a week or more. When the power is off, cable doesn't work. We have all installed generators, but Comcast has done nothing at their end. Consequently, when you need news and entertainment the most, there is none.


My OTA adventure began during one of these outages. I installed a small antenna we take camping in my attic during a week long outage. To my delight, we received dozens of channels and the quality was amazing. When the power and cable were restored, I left the tv in my bedroom attached to the antenna. As Comcast moved more channels to areas that required a box, my kids asked to be attached to the antenna. The rest, as they say, is history.


We have seven televisions -- five that are used regularly. The five all have a Roku and a DTVPal DVR attached. Some also have SMP-N200s and Blu-ray players. The one in my bedroom/office has a PC attached. That PC runs Playon, Plex and WMC. We have a WII, a PS3, and an xBox 360. All of these devices are, to some extent, media centers. The xBox, of course is a media center extender. We have a Chromecast -- which I think may be a game changer...just not this week.


When we cut the cable, there was some remorse about loss of programming. Not HBO or Showtime, but the History Channel and the Food Network. To remedy this, I bought the Rokus and a lifetime subscription to Playon. The big problem, though, was the loss of the DVR. I did not expect this. I had been monitoring DVR use in the months before we cut over and it was nil. Bonnie Hunt and Who Wants to be a Millionaire were the only shows recorded. What I did not realize is that there was another use for the DVR -- PAUSE. It turns out that my wife actually answers the phone and she was in the habit of pausing whatever she was watching while she gabbed. And, during Jeopardy, she pauses the program to ponder the tough questions. She also hit the rewind button a lot. Not just in football games. So we needed something. I looked at MythTV, XBMC, Plex, Boxee, and all the PC based solutions. They were all pretty expensive and a lot different than we were accustomed to.


We had loved Dish. It was the best premium provider we had ever had and we liked the interface a lot, so the DTVPal was familiar and quickly embraced. It's been three years and all five have performed flawlessly. When Rovi pulled the plug on TVGOS, PSIP was good enough. The kids probably watch Netflix and YouTube more than anything, the wife is about 50/50 broadcast and Netflix, but I still mostly watch broadcast television. I'm old, so most of my vast DVD collection predates the ban on format shifting. I purchased box sets of my favorite shows and hundreds and hundreds of movies.


A lot of people are asking about DVRs. Most of the options are complicated, expensive, or disappointing. I just wanted to let people know that EchoStar is going to market a modern DVR that does not require a monthly fee or a computer science degree...and that I am very excited about that


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## Chere

The just announced Tivo Roamio is probably the best option right now. You can record up to 4 shows while watching a fifth but on the downside you'll will have to pony up about $700 plus tax with lifetime service.


Early reviews on it look really good but I haven't seen anything out there yet regarding the tuner and how good it is.


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## hifiaudio2

That OTA TIVO is very interesting... of course the lifetime service is a rediculous $500 ... but still... maybe something I would be interested in replacing a HTPC with. Have to research.


My concern is that the TIVO can only have up to a 3 year warranty (comes with a criminal 1 year unless you upgrade). But once it craps out sometime after year three... they could charge whatever they want to fix it, since you are stuck with a device that has your lifetime service married to it.


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## qz3fwd

I have 3 Tivo S3's (OLED Display), and a Premiere.

I will be upgrading to add a Tivo Roamio (Base) with the 4 OTA tuners soon.

I will eventually dedicate this to OTA and later pick up the next model up for cable DVR purposes.


I dont have lifetime on any of my current boxes though.


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## wizwor

So, $60-$75 per month for TiVo? Plus cable?


Have you considered using 'minis' -- even with lifetime, they are only $250.


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## hifiaudio2

Anyone have any inside knowledge of if, and how soon, WatchESPN might be coming to the Roamio?


Also, anywhere I can see the back of the base Roamio with 4 antenna tuners? Cant find that on their site. I assume its one connection that is split internally?


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## calculon68

Internally split. Only ONE Cable/Antenna input.

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-roamio-series5.php 


The cable card inserts at the bottom of the base Roamio.


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## hifiaudio2

Great, thanks. Is the TIVO software stored on a chip inside somewhere or on the internal hard drive? Is upgrading the hard drive as easy as swapping it out for a new one?


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## calculon68

That's what the TCF people are saying. Straight drop in replacement, but it's done BEFORE the first TiVo boot.


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## shanewalker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wizwor*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording#post_23654335
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> When we cut the cable, there was some remorse about loss of programming. Not HBO or Showtime, but the History Channel and the Food Network. To remedy this, I bought the Rokus and a lifetime subscription to Playon. The big problem, though, was the loss of the DVR. I did not expect this. I had been monitoring DVR use in the months before we cut over and it was nil. Bonnie Hunt and Who Wants to be a Millionaire were the only shows recorded. What I did not realize is that there was another use for the DVR -- PAUSE. It turns out that my wife actually answers the phone and she was in the habit of pausing whatever she was watching while she gabbed. And, during Jeopardy, she pauses the program to ponder the tough questions. She also hit the rewind button a lot. Not just in football games. So we needed something. I looked at MythTV, XBMC, Plex, Boxee, and all the PC based solutions. They were all pretty expensive and a lot different than we were accustomed to.
> 
> 
> We had loved Dish. It was the best premium provider we had ever had and we liked the interface a lot, so the DTVPal was familiar and quickly embraced. It's been three years and all five have performed flawlessly. When Rovi pulled the plug on TVGOS, PSIP was good enough. The kids probably watch Netflix and YouTube more than anything, the wife is about 50/50 broadcast and Netflix, but I still mostly watch broadcast television. I'm old, so most of my vast DVD collection predates the ban on format shifting. I purchased box sets of my favorite shows and hundreds and hundreds of movies.
> 
> 
> A lot of people are asking about DVRs. Most of the options are complicated, expensive, or disappointing. I just wanted to let people know that EchoStar is going to market a modern DVR that does not require a monthly fee or a computer science degree...and that I am very excited about that



Great post, aside from your rural location, a LOT mirrors our viewing experiences (likewise, Dish is my fave premium service--Voom before that) and my current focus on the DVR experience as a requisite for 'cord cutting' w/out undue withdrawal.


The Tivo Roamio, a Stream and a couple of Minis are on my 'wish list'. I'm supposing I should get a good antenna installed either in the attic or on our soon-to-be decommisioned sat dish first though.


We also just upgraded our network w/ a dual-band Netgear and I plan on dedicating the 5Ghz to the Tivo/Streaming, and would like to put a NAS on the router to store archived content...which should be do-able w/in the Tivo ecosystem, correct? And as for the Roamio entry-level, you can expand it w/ external drives, right?


Glad I found this thread--when Roamio was announced I was excited "This is it!"...and looks like I'm not alone.


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## Chris Gerhard

I have been using TiVo for OTA for a long time. I have two TiVoHDs running now, two models behind but for OTA as good as any. The only TiVo hardware failures I have had after 13 years have been hard drives which I have replaced myself and those are rare. Total cost including hardware and service has been very low, certainly less than $10/month per DVR but I use them a long time. I expect the two I am using now to last several more years, I have replaced one hard drive in one TiVoHD which was also inexpensive, salvaged from a used TiVo I purchased at a garage sale.


I read the nonsense about monthly fees, I don't want to pay a monthly fee either so I don't, always have purchased lifetime subscriptions, three total now over 13 years, the first two $200, the last $300. If I bought a new TiVo today, I would have to pay $400 lifetime subscription. TiVo just works and although I could make one of the dumb DVRs like Channel Master work if I wanted, I don't want to since it wouldn't save me much money. I don't think there is a close second best OTA DVR personally but second best is still the Windows Media Center in my opinion, it is brutal to set up and use compared to TiVo but again, I could make it work if I wanted.


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## tveli

Maybe we need two categories to know all we need to know about "Best DVR for OTA".

1. Best non-TIVO DVR for OTA (no additional license fee up front or monthly.)

2. Best TIVO model for OTA .


TIVO's UI sure is the best I've ever seen, with WMC in second place....


Maybe the new channelmaster K77 will have a nice UI. Seems like it will be devoid of additional/monthly/followup/lifetime/whatever licensing fees, so that's a big win for some of us!


----------



## Chris Gerhard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tveli*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording/30#post_23695737
> 
> 
> Maybe we need two categories to know all we need to know about "Best DVR for OTA".
> 
> 1. Best non-TIVO DVR for OTA (no additional license fee up front or monthly.)
> 
> 2. Best TIVO model for OTA .
> 
> 
> TIVO's UI sure is the best I've ever seen, with WMC in second place....
> 
> 
> Maybe the new channelmaster K77 will have a nice UI. Seems like it will be devoid of additional/monthly/followup/lifetime/whatever licensing fees, so that's a big win for some of us!



With no fees for guide data or software updates, the outcome has usually been the DVR quickly falls behind any DVR that has provisions for these services which obviously cost money to provide. This must be built into the cost of the DVR or paid in the form of a periodic subscription fee. Over the long run, TiVo doesn't cost much more than the competition if lifetime service is purchased. If someone can't afford lifetime service, I would just say wait until you can.


----------



## hifiaudio2

Its good to hear that you have had good long term reliability with the Tivo boxes. My main issue with paying for lifetime service is that if the box dies, you are stuck buying the service again. Tivo tells me that they charge $199 to transfer a lifetime service to another box if one fails, but I find that ridiculous. If their hardware fails, you should be able to transfer for free.


----------



## Chris Gerhard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hifiaudio2*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording/30#post_23695815
> 
> 
> Its good to hear that you have had good long term reliability with the Tivo boxes. My main issue with paying for lifetime service is that if the box dies, you are stuck buying the service again. Tivo tells me that they charge $199 to transfer a lifetime service to another box if one fails, but I find that ridiculous. If their hardware fails, you should be able to transfer for free.



Few things in life worth having come risk free. It would be absurd to offer a free lifetime transfer to a new TiVo if the old out of warranty TiVo fails, so TiVo doesn't do it and neither has any other DVR company. I accept that risk because there is no better alternative than TiVo and paying a monthly fee guarantees a bad outcome, lasts 10 years, you will have paid for 10 years of service. I always choose an option that can result in a good outcome and TiVo lifetime service at least offers that possibility, in my opinion the most likely outcome is a good one.


----------



## tveli

Chris,


Perhaps you can identify particular/specific TIVO models for those willing to consider it for OTA?

Are there older/preferable models available on Ebay for example?

Or is there a new model that would be best?


Maybe you can break it down for the two group of folks willing to pay monthly or 'lifetime' "protection" to TIVO:

- What's the best new or old TIVO to get for OTA use, for those who prefer to pay monthly protection/licensing to TIVO?

- What's the best new or old TIVO to get for OTA use, for those who prefer to pay "lifetime of the hardware" protection/licensing to TIVO?


thank you,


/e


----------



## Chris Gerhard




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tveli*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording/30#post_23695876
> 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> 
> Perhaps you can identify particular/specific TIVO models for those willing to consider it for OTA?
> 
> Are there older/preferable models available on Ebay for example?
> 
> Or is there a new model that would be best?
> 
> 
> Maybe you can break it down for the two group of folks willing to pay monthly or 'lifetime' "protection" to TIVO:
> 
> - What's the best new or old TIVO to get for OTA use, for those who prefer to pay monthly protection/licensing to TIVO?
> 
> - What's the best new or old TIVO to get for OTA use, for those who prefer to pay "lifetime of the hardware" protection/licensing to TIVO?
> 
> 
> thank you,
> 
> 
> /e



Well, I am two models behind with no plans to upgrade so I am not the best to compare models but I do know a little about the models I haven't owned.


I understand only the basic TiVo Roamio comes with OTA tuners, the more expensive Roamio models are designed for cable and this makes sense, the market for an OTA DVR is small and doesn't include consumers willing to pay a high price for recording free over-the-air TV, in fact it is a budget conscious market. I do think some small market would be willing to pay for a 4 OTA tuner DVR but not me, I have never had conflicts requiring more than 2 tuners but I do have two 2 tuner TiVoHDs with service just in case that ever happens. I like having two TiVos with service, even though I rarely transfer recordings from TiVo to TiVo or TiVo to computer. I also have a third TiVoHD without service, backup for parts and without service, it does 30 minute buffer on two tuners and I can get guide data and control the unsubscribed TiVo by using Google TV. Of course no recordings beyond the 30 minute point are possible. I think the TiVo Premiere with recent firmware and TiVo Roamio will not have the thirty minute buffer without service.


I am not aware of any quality differences in the tuners used for OTA, that includes TiVoHD, TiVo Premiere, and TiVo Roamio. I have read anecdotal tales of differences but those are all over the place. I can say the TiVoHD tuners have been the best ATSC tuners I have used. Buying a used lifetime TiVoHD or TiVo Premiere for OTA is a risk I would be willing to take. Over the years I have been using my TiVoHDs, I have received many offers from TiVo to buy a TiVo Premiere with lifetime for $450, so the price I would pay for a used one would certainly be significantly less than I would pay for a TiVo with warranty from TiVo. I would say $200 for a TiVoHD and $275 for a TiVo Premiere at this point and as time passes, of course that price goes down. Hard drive size and accessories included can cause the price I would be willing to pay to vary considerably.


The TiVo Roamio should be the best in terms of internet access so if that is important then I would say TiVo Roamio is the best DVR. I don't care about using TiVo for internet streaming, I use Google TV and Roku, and the TiVoHD is the worst of the three for the internet services. For simple OTA DVR functions, I am not aware of any advantage among the models. The TiVoHD doesn't work with the peripheral boxes offered from TiVo, like TiVo Stream and TiVo Mini, and I am not sure of how those work with the newer models since I don't care about those boxes. I am happy with the rudimentary free options I use, TiVo Desktop and TiVo transfer to another TiVo. I believe TiVo Desktop is no longer free and I don't know how much it costs.


----------



## tveli

thanks man, that's good stuff, very helpful.

Based on your input, I'll take a detailed look at that low-end TIVO Roamio and compare it with other options including WMC & channelmaster K77, costing it per-year, while also considering the good-outcome/bad-outcome approach you had mentioned ...

best regards....


----------



## SoNic67

Silicondust HDHomeRun DUAL is on sale on Amazon for $69 . If you have a mini PC with Windows7, you have a subscription-free DVR with two tuners that works with ATSC Digital TV (antenna) or Unencrypted Digital Cable TV (Clear QAM).


----------



## wizwor

Today, SiliconDust and Simple announced that the Simple.TV v2 would be a two tuner DVR powered, manufactured, and distributed by SiliconGraphics. Sounds like a Home Run to me









http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/silicondust-to-power-simple-tv-2-0/


----------



## hifiaudio2

need 4 tuners though.. 2 just isn't enough. Still looks like either two hdhomeruns and wmc or the new roamio


----------



## wizwor

I don't have Simple, but my understanding is that multiple tuners can be accessed using the Roku/browser software. With HDHR and WMCC, tuner selection is in the background. I would guess that Simple TV 2.0 will support multiple devices in this manner. That would be better than TiVo since, for many, four tuners is not enough.


----------



## hifiaudio2

If the Simple product does have the ability to pull from a "pool" of multiple HDhomerun devices, then it sounds like a contender.


----------



## wizwor

hifiaudio2, are there pictures of your completed theater?


----------



## hifiaudio2

Should be in my build thread. I think that is what is in my signature, but I am on a mobile right now and can't check. If not, the thread is titled Tennessean Cinema. I never did " final final " pics because I still have not bought my two rows of matching chairs.


----------



## wizwor

Please post the final final when the chairs come in. Looks great!


----------



## hifiaudio2

Thanks! Will do.


----------



## Crist Clapper


*Best DVR for Over-the-Air recording?*


 

I found this thread... Read it... Checked out the links... Did I miss an answer with a simple solution to the the above question?  I have DVR's with on-screen TV programming.  Need another.  Are they illegal to purchase now?  It seems like a simple technical solution with a high demand.  Help?


----------



## freetvEE




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crist Clapper*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording/30#post_23770896
> 
> 
> *Best DVR for Over-the-Air recording?*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this thread... Read it... Checked out the links... Did I miss an answer with a simple solution to the the above question?  I have DVR's with on-screen TV programming.  Need another.  Are they illegal to purchase now?  It seems like a simple technical solution with a high demand.  Help?



Seems like your best options are either a Tivo Roamio or a HTPC, depending on your needs... Cost is about the same considering a lifetime subscription to Tivo, HTPC is more robust and flexible, Tivo is more plug and play for some folks.


----------



## jodymayes


Did you ever find a good OTA recording device preferrably a DVR  we just ordered the Lava HD antenna.  We are tired of the high dish bills, we figured it up and how much we could of saved over the years not having DISH.  So any advice you could give us with this would be awesome.  My email is [email protected] 

 

Thank you,

 

Jody


----------



## Crist Clapper


~BUMP~

 

Still looking for an OTA no-monthly cost solution... Help?


----------



## Crist Clapper


*Magnavox HDD and DVD Recorder with Digital Tuner - Models MDR-533/535/537*


----------



## Aero 1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crist Clapper*  /t/1448951/best-dvr-for-over-the-air-recording/30#post_23806220
> 
> 
> ~BUMP~
> 
> 
> Still looking for an OTA no-monthly cost solution... Help?



freetvEE already answered you a week ago.


----------



## tveli

None have software/UI anywhere near as good as TIVO or WMC, but these devices handle OTA with no monthly fee or "lifetime-of-the-hardware" fee.

channelmaster 7000.

channelmaster 7400.

channelmaster k77.

HD Home-Run

"PHD-VRX" (you gotta add an external drive to get the DVR functionality) .


----------



## calculon68

FWIW, a lifetime-equipped used TiVo from eBay is another option. $300 for a Series 3 / TivoHD with a 1TB HDD. (2 tuners, 150 Hrs HD recording). The Series 3 is seven-year old hardware. TiVo still does the guide programing updates, but not the software. I'm using a lifetime TiVo HD- and prefer it to the HTPC / WMC / HomeRun HD I was using before.


I am saving the pennies for a lifetime-TiVo Roamio and 2TB HDD. $800.00.


----------



## wizwor

I just got a Simple off Woot for $100 w/lifetime premium. I plan to use it to record unique episodes of current programming for playback on the Rokus. Seems like an inexpensive alternative. I'll review it on the blog in my sig. With SiliconDust helping Simple with a v2, there is hope that I have snagged a gem.


----------



## wizwor

I love my simple.tv DVR. Considering that Premier service is licensed per viewer rather than per device, this is a very inexpensive alternative to Tivo...

http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/simple-tv/


----------



## Charlie46227

I've not read posts on this thread, but want to mention that Amazon has a little ATSC digital converter box called HomeWorx HW-150PVR that has HDMI out and has 'cable loop through'. I have gone through two cable boxes that I bought on ebay for my projector, but neither had the HDMI out and this little box records also (though you cannot watch one station and record another). The unit is very basic and has a really funky remote control (not a very good interface, but works fine), but is only like $45 (free shipping with Prime acct). Oh, I should mention that while it does not have a hard drive, it does have a USB port to which you attach a flash drive. Pretty convenient really. It picks up all the stations offered in Indianapolis, IN area.


----------



## Jim1348

I am considering something like this, too. Is there anything else new on the horizon or should I just buy a Simple TV? Would any of these work better with SlingBox than others?


----------



## laridae


There's a lot of info on this question over here:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/f/42/hdtv-recorders


----------



## nwest

Just revisited this thread for the first time in about 8 months and thought I'd give my update (since I started the thread...)


I tried the Magnavox DVD recorder that was mentioned, and I ended up returning it 2 days later to Walmart. Maybe I got the wrong one, but it couldn't record HD which was a deal breaker.


In the end, we just decided to get the TiVo Roamio with the monthly fee. I love it. No hassle. 4 tuners. HD, with channel guide. I never found a good fee-free solution that did everything I wanted. Maybe someday Google or someone else will make a box I can buy off the shelf that does basic HD DVR without a monthly fee... Until then, TiVo is great.


----------



## nwest

Tried it. It can receive HD signals, but won't record it to the DVD.


----------



## wizwor

 http://thebeersoncomcast.wordpress.com/2013/12/31/channel-master-dvr/ 


The DVR+ is an excellent DVR and I highly recommend it.


----------



## homemadebox




> Quote:
> Posted by Charlie46227:
> I've not read posts on this thread, but want to mention that Amazon has a little ATSC digital converter box called HomeWorx HW-150PVR that has HDMI out and has 'cable loop through'. I have gone through two cable boxes that I bought on ebay for my projector, but neither had the HDMI out and this little box records also (though you cannot watch one station and record another). The unit is very basic and has a really funky remote control (not a very good interface, but works fine), but is only like $45 (free shipping with Prime acct). Oh, I should mention that while it does not have a hard drive, it does have a USB port to which you attach a flash drive. Pretty convenient really. It picks up all the stations offered in Indianapolis, IN area.


 

+1 for HomeWorx HW-150PVR.

 

Thank you Charlie.  So awesome.  I'm in the Toronto, Ontario area and saw this post and immediately went out to BestBuy and price matched with NCIX to get this for $42 CAD. Tried it for a couple days and works like a charm as an OTA PVR.  And as a bonus, it even picks up an extra channel (CHCH) that my TV's built-in digital tuner doesn't get. 

 

I like that you use your own flash drive so you can watch what you record on other devices too.  Mine is version 14 so no firmware update was needed and everything works great.  Thanks again! 

 

Note there's also another similar device on Amazon - the iView 3500STB which I almost got 'cause it's even cheaper and has a QAM Tuner (although some say doesn't work) but it seems the DVR software is buggy and there is no support.  So I went with the HomeWorx and couldn't be happier.


----------



## Doug O

Can't use the Homeworx in Thunder Bay. 3 OTA channels and Shaw cable scrambles all channels. Not much use in these parts unfortunately...


----------



## mtcsbear


how do I do that?


----------



## coleman100

*Channelmaster 7000PAL*

My personal favorite is the ChannelMaster 7000PAL. I would describe it as not perfect, but good enough. It has two tuners and built-in 320GB hard drive. You can replace the hard drive with something bigger. (This voids the warranty, but the machine hasn't been built in years -- the warranty is long gone!) You can record on two channels while watching a recording. It remembers up to an hour of the current channel, allowing you to rewind, fast forward, pause, or slo-mo. If you decide the program you're watching is a keeper, you can record the entire show, including the part you've already seen. It has an onscreen program guide you can use to schedule recordings, and recordings can be one-time, daily, weekly, or Mon-Fri. There is also a program search feature -- if a program you like will be on in less than two weeks, the machine will find it. and let you schedule a recording. No monthly fees -- just buy the machine, plug it in, and hook it up just like a vcr.

However it does not record satellite or cable channels. You cannot offload programs to your computer or smartphone.

The machine is not made anymore, but you can find a good used one on Ebay for about $150.


----------



## woodstickers

*Channelmaster DVR+1

*Just purchased one and picture look great from all stations with sensitive tuner compared to Dish HD DVR OTA tuner. Been having issues though with downloading program guide. Only getting 12-24 hours of guide info from local stations. Emailed customer support at Channelmaster and they are trying to help me get the guide info worked out. Remote a bit hard to navigate - been spoiled by Dish remote. Wish it could record one more channel at the same time since all the local stations put their network news on at at 6:30 PM.


----------



## musicfiend

woodstickers said:


> *Channelmaster DVR+1
> 
> *Remote a bit hard to navigate - been spoiled by Dish remote


Does anyone make a decent remote for PVRs? I find the Humax pretty illogical as well. Is it just a case of having to buy a programmable remote?


----------



## neoflyer

History Channel? Oh, you mean the Pawn Stars Channel. Why they don't just change the name to that I'll never know. Which brings up back to the Ronald Reagan quote.


----------



## wizwor

*DVR+ One Year Later*

I have been excited about the DVR+ since late 2012. I had inquired of EchoStar if they would consider reentering the OTA market and Shelley O'Connell replied that they talk about it every day. Six months later, a device was going through the FCC process and in December of 2013, I had one in my hands. That one would be a gift to my internetless in-laws, but I was very impressed. Over the summer, two of my DTVPal DVRs started acting up, so I purchased three DVR+ DVRs on Black Friday. I am so happy.

A lot of people speculated that the $175 price was a sell-off in advance of a new model. Channel Master has denied this and, in fact, announced a MAJOR FREE upgrade for these DVRs. In the first quarter, the DVR will get an upgrade that enables something called Linear OTT. Linear OTT puts streamed 'channels' in the guide. While On-Demand has it's place, those of us who like to fall asleep to TV will enjoy linear programming. This is in addition to streamed apps like Vudu, Pandora, and YouTube. 

This is THE box that ought to be on every cord cutter's television. If you have questions, please feel free to ask. I'll answer to the best of my ability.


----------



## cjwdfw

*DVR for Antenna*

I have seen this before but recently unable to locate it. I am not concerned about "cheap" or "low price". I just want a DVR for OTA Broadcast. Frustrating...


----------



## wizwor

http://www.channelmaster.com/Products_s/329.htm#DVR+


----------



## Haywood Jablomi

I have been using a quad-tuner Tablo DVR since last summer and really like it. It is extremely simple to set up and use and is rock-solid stable. I've had zero problems with it. It works great with my Roku boxes, but also works well on my tablets and PCs. It even works well on my phones and other devices via a Plex channel. The lifetime program guide subscription is $150 and is the lifetime of the account, not the device. You can buy as many devices as you want without having to pay again, which makes it a much better deal than TiVo.


----------



## Aerumas

I've been considering cutting the cable for some time... I just never could find a good dependable home DVR that didn't come with its own subscription. Looks like a few new options are on the market... it may be time to take the plunge.


----------



## darkesha

Haywood Jablomi said:


> The lifetime program guide subscription is $150 and is the lifetime of the account, not the device. You can buy as many devices as you want without having to pay again, which makes it a much better deal than TiVo.


I wonder if they provide subs for Canadian TV listings ?

If anyone knows of PVR that does provide Canadian listings please update.


----------



## Haywood Jablomi

Tablo is a Canadian product, sold in the Canadian market and they do have Canadian guide service.


----------



## Bismarck440

wizwor said:


> I have been excited about the DVR+ since late 2012.
> 
> A lot of people speculated that the $175 price was a sell-off in advance of a new model. Channel Master has denied this and, in fact, announced a MAJOR FREE upgrade for these DVRs. In the first quarter, the DVR will get an upgrade that enables something called Linear OTT. Linear OTT puts streamed 'channels' in the guide. While On-Demand has it's place, those of us who like to fall asleep to TV will enjoy linear programming. This is in addition to streamed apps like Vudu, Pandora, and YouTube.
> 
> This is THE box that ought to be on every cord cutter's television. If you have questions, please feel free to ask. I'll answer to the best of my ability.


This Channelmaster seems like a perfect replacement to a VCR for OTA, I currently use a VCR & STB for the little recording I do..

The bad thing about this is that it's not available via any retailer, & apparently only an online purchase. (Which I no longer do).

I personally don't need 'guide' services & would just like the option to manually program on & off time. 

$175?? I thought these were more like in the $299 range?


----------



## Haywood Jablomi

wizwor said:


> This is THE box that ought to be on every cord cutter's television. If you have questions, please feel free to ask. I'll answer to the best of my ability.


Based on my research, I agree if you are looking for a single TV solution. The simplicity alone makes it a gem and the value proposition is truly outstanding. The main reason I did not go that route is that I needed television on multiple screens around the house, already had a Roku in every room, was already using Plex Media Server and already had very good network infrastructure in my home. Tablo was a very natural fit for me and I am extremely happy with it. The flexibility is outstanding. I love being able to access my DVR from anywhere in the house and from all of our many mobile devices outside of the house. It is more costly, however.


----------



## wizwor

HJ, I own seven Simple DVRs and toyed with the idea of sampling the Tablo. Both suffer some similar problems -- cost, tuner management, and library management. The cost of a dual tuner tablo with lifetime subscription, a 1t disk, and a Roku is about $480. The cost for a dual tuner DVR+ with 1t usb disk is $300 -- more than 50% more for the tablo. That gives one tuner for recording and a second for watching live tv.

If you want to go with a two television setup, the DVR+ cost doubles to $600. If you want to add another tv to the tablo setup, you could add another roku, another tablo, and another disk raising the price to $780. This is the most comparable upgrade and it still rings up at 30% more. You could go with a four tuner tablo with a 2t disk, lifetime, and a pair of Rokus for $710. I would caution, though, that failure of one disk or DVR and you are 100% out of business.

In my experience, the time required to change channels on a whole house DVR is noticeably longer than on the DVR+. Sometimes, the tuner would time out and require a second try. This is with the Simple DVR, mind you, so YMMV with tablo.

I have found it very simple to download and convert files recorded on my DVR+ for playback via my Plex server. The quality is much better than doing the same with the Simple DVRs (though playback directly from the DVR was very good quality).

I do still use the Simple DVRs for access to my antenna from laptops and tablets via my WLAN and remotely. 

One other small thing is that the DVR+ does not have to be tethered. If there is no network connection, it populates its grid style guide using OTA data. I like this feature when I am camping, when we lose power, and when the network guide goes away (Rovi pulled the plug on their OTA guide) or just sucks (Simple's).

Lots of things to consider before choosing a solution.


----------



## Haywood Jablomi

I have a quad tuner Tablo with a 1.5TB hard drive feeding four televisions via Roku. I do not include the cost of the Roku boxes, because I already had them for use with Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Plex, Vudu, Spotify, Pandora and other stuff. The Tablo, antenna, hard drive and lifetime subscription was $600. A single quad tuner box is plenty enough for my family of four and I am about to experiment with sharing it with my parents who live too far out for OTA, but have good internet service. We rarely watch live TV and we spend a lot of our TV time viewing other content, so the DVR almost never has more than one user at a time. Because we are such light users, the Tablo was a really good value proposition and it gives us access to our programming literally anywhere without having to transcode stuff and move it to my NAS. Tablo is also supposed to be working on NAS storage support, which will make things even better. The software has steadily improved over time. The stability is fantastic and the box does not overheat. I couldn't be happier.


----------



## wizwor

Glad you're happy. A lot of people like the whole house DVRs. If you came to me saying you had a house full of Rokus, I would certainly recommend you start with a whole house DVR. Even if you decided to go with a set top DVR, the other would be good for other devices. The Simple DVR is particularly good for remote access.

Still, for someone looking to cut their cable, who has no existing infrastructure, I am always going to recommend running a coax from an attic or roof antenna to a DVR+. For most people, this is very close to the cable experience and a very good price.


----------



## wizwor

Have spent the last week playing with a TiVo Toamio OTA. Bought two @ $299.99 with Lifetime and wish I had bought three. You do need to have internet or dialtone with the TiVos, but there are no monthly fees and $299.99 is competitive with the Channel Master DVR+. I would advise everyone to keep an eye open for an encore of this deal.


----------



## jaxstraww

Your big on the Channelmaster DVR+ solution.

I have the Fios local channel package. Not using OTA for my main TV that needs a DVR. TV is a newer Sharp with QAM so I just pipe the coax cable into the TV and get my main locals which is what the wife wants. We supplement other TV using Netflix & a Hulu+ solution. Streaming box is a Nvidia Shield.

Would this Channelmaster work with a QAM setup as I explained? I'd like to pipe the coax with my Fios local package into the DVR and then run the DVR into the TV using HDMI. For internet connectivity I would use a wireless thumb drive I have laying around. No access to an Ethernet connection for Internet.


----------



## jaxstraww

Well, after some reading the channelmaster won't work. After reading some Amazon questions it looks like only an OTA feed will work. No QAM tuner built in.

Do you have any recommendations for a similar DVR device that I can use QAM on? OTA antenna is not an option for this TV.


----------



## wizwor

When you say an antenna is not an option for 'this tv', are you saying there is no OTA at the set or at the location (address)? The only QAM DVR I have experience with is the Simple DVR. These are no longer generally available and require a software license.

Take a look at this...

http://www.amazon.com/3500STBII-Multi-Function-Converter-Recording-Playback/dp/B00GOILYB6


----------



## lrhyne11

Help - "VCR" type recorder needed
Okay, if I'm in the wrong forum, feel free to redirect me. I have cut the cord, but have a question. I have two HD TVs and two Rokus (subscribe to Netflix and Sling TV for most of the year). I am lucky and can pick up a decent # of OTA local & PBS stations with $10 indoor antennas. Occasionally, there are two OTA network shows on at the same time that I wish to watch. Since my circa 1990's VCR no longer works, what is the least expensive way to be able to record one show on just one TV. I don't need to be able to skip commercials or anything like that. It would be nice to be able to set ahead of time (i.e. set to record every Thur @ 10pm on channel 9.1) I don't wish to pay a monthly fee since I will only use this 15 - 20 times a year for an hour or so each time. Most of the DVRs I've looked into seem to be overkill for my needs. 

Thanks for any help!


----------



## avshelden

lrhyne11 said:


> Help - "VCR" type recorder needed
> Okay, if I'm in the wrong forum, feel free to redirect me. I have cut the cord, but have a question. ... Since my circa 1990's VCR no longer works, what is the least expensive way to be able to record one show on just one TV. [...] Most of the DVRs I've looked into seem to be overkill for my needs.
> 
> Thanks for any help!


While I'm know there are many users whose experience was not what mine was and would not make this recommendation, I would recommend you try to find a DTVPal converter box (TR40). There is a lengthy forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/186-c...l-echostar-tr40-digital-analog-converter.html

This should work with your VCR and allow you to program both to do the recordings. We did this for quite a while but ultimately decided we wanted a real HD DVR and bought the DTVPal+ DVR/Channel Master 7000 (I think) which is no longer sold. We have been extremely happy with ours although we do still deal with issues when we go through daylight savings time changes. (forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1099071-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic.html)

I saw a couple of the DVR models available on ebay today and would highly recommend that route as a low cost (but not bulletproof) solution.


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## wizwor

avshelden said:


> While I'm know there are many users whose experience was not what mine was and would not make this recommendation, I would recommend you try to find a DTVPal converter box (TR40). There is a lengthy forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/186-c...l-echostar-tr40-digital-analog-converter.html
> 
> This should work with your VCR and allow you to program both to do the recordings. We did this for quite a while but ultimately decided we wanted a real HD DVR and bought the DTVPal+ DVR/Channel Master 7000 (I think) which is no longer sold. We have been extremely happy with ours although we do still deal with issues when we go through daylight savings time changes. (forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-hdtv-recorders/1099071-official-avs-dish-dtvpal-dvr-topic.html)
> 
> I saw a couple of the DVR models available on ebay today and would highly recommend that route as a low cost (but not bulletproof) solution.


The DTVPal has not been manufactured for a half dozen years. I happen to own three and love them, but cannot recommend one now due to the age of the hardware.

Right now, I would recommend the TiVo Roamio/OTA at $300. It is the best DVR at any price and at $300 it is very reasonabley priced.


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## rsamos

Just last week I hapened to stumble onto a link to the $300/lifetime deal on an OTA that wizwor mentioned above and couldn't pass that up. I also picked up a Mini to go with it.

I've put in the needed hardwired network connections for the Mini, and this weekend will be moving the antenna that's sitting on a floor pointing out a window up to the roof. After that, I should be ready to deal with the Dish Customer Retention Specialist and cut the cord. 

This is my first experience with Tivo. While the interface is admitedly a bit clunky, it's not at all a deal breaker for me. In every possible way this DVR is _signifcantly_ better than the Dish DVR (Hughes?) I've been using for years. 

One thing I've been wondering is if Tivo ever updates their streaming apps. I was hoping that maybe by winter the HBO Now app would show up.


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## wizwor

rsamos said:


> Just last week I hapened to stumble onto a link to the $300/lifetime deal on an OTA that wizwor mentioned above and couldn't pass that up. I also picked up a Mini to go with it.
> 
> I've put in the needed hardwired network connections for the Mini, and this weekend will be moving the antenna that's sitting on a floor pointing out a window up to the roof. After that, I should be ready to deal with the Dish Customer Retention Specialist and cut the cord.
> 
> This is my first experience with Tivo. While the interface is admitedly a bit clunky, it's not at all a deal breaker for me. In every possible way this DVR is _signifcantly_ better than the Dish DVR (Hughes?) I've been using for years.
> 
> One thing I've been wondering is if Tivo ever updates their streaming apps. I was hoping that maybe by winter the HBO Now app would show up.


They do.


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## rsamos

wizwor said:


> They do.


xlnt.

Thanks.


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## isamu

Hello. I too am in the same boast as the OP. I talked to someone here in LA that is willing to hook up a OTA installation for me for fairly decent price.

My main concern is record and playback performance. I used to watch OTA and had a Conaxsat Trio many years ago(2008) and its performance was terrible! Video would always stutter and freeze. Do these newer boxes suffer from these issues? Which box excels in the areas of performance in your opinion?


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## wizwor

As far as I know, all the modern DVRs are excellent recorders. They distinguish themselves on features and price.

https://freetvforme.wordpress.com/2016/01/16/new-magnavox-ota-dvrs-announced/
https://freetvforme.wordpress.com/2014/10/04/channel-master-dvr/
https://freetvforme.wordpress.com/2015/01/18/back-to-basics-in-2015/

I don't have any hands on experience with the new Magnavox DVRs, but they sound like a nice alternative to TiVo and DVR+. I have both TiVo Roamio/OTAs and Channel Master DVR+s. Both work great and make excellent recordings.

TiVo just released a new Bolt DVR which is OTA and cable. It's probably a great DVR, but VERY expensive with monthly fees or a $600 once time fee (on top of purchase price). After using a TiVo for nearly a year, I am using a DVR+ again (wife prefers the TiVo). TiVo has apps for top services, DVR+ has free linear streaming apps, and Magnavox has no apps at all.


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## isamu

Thank you very much for your reply. May be a dumb question, but what exactly is the difference between a PVR and a DVR? Can a PVR box, assuming there's a seperate USB Hard Drive attached, function the same way a box with a built in DVR can? Can I rewind, pause, etc with the PVR box?


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## wizwor

Digital Video Recorder vs Personal Video Recorder? No idea. I would suggest you pay more attention to features and price than to name. If you have some specific devices in mind, it might make more sense to compare them.


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## Mark12547

isamu said:


> what exactly is the difference between a PVR and a DVR?


They appear to be different terms to mean the same thing.

E.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_video_recorder opens with this statement:


> A *digital video recorder* (*DVR*), sometimes referred to by the merchandising term *personal video recorder* (*PVR*), is a consumer electronics device or application software that records video in a digital format ...


http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/personal-video-recorder-PVR


> A personal video recorder (PVR) is an interactive TV recording device, in essence a sophisticated set-top box with recording capability (although it is not necessarily kept on top of the television set). Vendors and media also refer to the units by these names: _digital video recorder_ (DVR); _personal TV receiver_ (PTR); _personal video station_ (PVS); and _hard disk recorder_ (HDR).


http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/P/PVR.html


> A PVR is also referred to as a _hard disk recorder (HDR), digital video recorder (DVR), personal video station (PVS) _, or a _personal TV receiver (PTR)_.


http://www.differencebetween.net/object/gadgets-object/difference-between-pvr-and-dvr/


> 3. Both are basically referring to the same product


This last link above actually tries to draw a distinction between the two by mentioning that "PVR" means that one can "personalize" whereas "DVR" emphasizes "digital", but the two terms have grown to mean the same thing and one has to look at the feature set of any prospective device, not whether it was labeled PVR or DVR. And, according to the same article, the term "PVR" is "largely obsolete".


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## white_noise

Haywood Jablomi said:


> I have a quad tuner Tablo with a 1.5TB hard drive feeding four televisions via Roku. I do not include the cost of the Roku boxes, because I already had them for use with Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Plex, Vudu, Spotify, Pandora and other stuff. The Tablo, antenna, hard drive and lifetime subscription was $600. A single quad tuner box is plenty enough for my family of four and I am about to experiment with sharing it with my parents who live too far out for OTA, but have good internet service. We rarely watch live TV and we spend a lot of our TV time viewing other content, so the DVR almost never has more than one user at a time. Because we are such light users, the Tablo was a really good value proposition and it gives us access to our programming literally anywhere without having to transcode stuff and move it to my NAS. Tablo is also supposed to be working on NAS storage support, which will make things even better. The software has steadily improved over time. The stability is fantastic and the box does not overheat. I couldn't be happier.



Been a happy Tablo user also, great little boxes. I've been using the dual tuner model since they first released them.
Very wife friendly also


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## DavidinCT

You could always use a old Windows 7 PC and add a tuner or 2 to use Windows Media Center. If tweaked right, they do make a great DVR. 


1. An old PC (as long as designed for Windows 7), a tuner (or 4), and a WMC remote kit (under$25 on ebay)
2. Free Guide data
3. HDMI, Component, S-VIDEO, or even composite video is possable depening on the video card you have.
4. Supports OTA, cablecard or other formats (depending on tuner)
5. More than 4 tuners is possable (registry hacks will alow 30+ tuners if NEEDED/WANTED)
6 Custom guide data and tuner managment, use one Attenna for a few channels, use another one for other channels and combine them in 1 guide.
7. DVR storage is up to how much space you want to add
8. Interface has options for FM radio, Movie Libray and even 3rd party addons to put like youtube and other things.
9. A internet connection IS required for guide data. 


WIndows Media Center was designed for single core/dual core CPUS (Windows 7 release), so it does not need a high end PC to run.

If you wanted to TWEAK your setup for what channels you get, Windows Media Center with a good tuner can be a very powerfull system.


It would be a PC so there is always little things to them but, a good solid system backup and disable all updates....stays working rock solid.


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## jrschultz

I just hooked up my 2 tuner Tablo box with a 500GB hard drive for recording. It's a great solution for me.
I already had a couple Roku's, so it was easy for my wife to learn. I'm very happy.


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