# crestron programming/pricing?



## cabledawg

well im one of those who has purchased crestron and actually continue to purchase crestron from fleabay.i used to work for a local company installing intrusion/fire alarms,cctv,home theater,access control and structured wiring.


my home of course is wired more than the wife likes.its a 2000sf single floor and i have approximately 4000' cat5e,1000' cat6,2000' rg6qs,1000' 14/4,500' 12/2,500' 22/3(IR),750' 22/4 SHLD,500' 22/2(alarm),300' 22/4 alarm,18/2 plenum SLD(fire),16/4 plenum SLD(fire),1000' siamese(cctv) and various other.


i spent quite a deal on the infrastructure and security when we first moved in as security was a priority.


ive been using x10 since i was knee high to a grasshoper and recently started using insteon.now id like to use the crestron ive been buying.the local installer wont even touch it,even asked if i had a no warranty/no callback contract drawn up but still no go.


getting an installer up from miami is way too expensive.ive tried to track down the required software but of course its hard to come by.ive only managed to secure the database and SIMPL, i even went so low as getting my nephew to find it on one of his file sharing sites,still no go.


so,im down to trying to purchase the software(probably not going to happen this century) or finding someone to program it remotely and upload myself.


my question is how much hourly is the going rate?i have the GUI i want to use,i know what i want to control and how.it would probably be 2-3hrs,so what can i expect to pay for this?


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## QQQ

cabledawg, I hope you have thick skin because you may be about to get hit with lots of posts criticizing you for daring to ask for the software. Personally I believe it should be available and am not threatened by the idea that a small percentage of people want to try to program it themselves. Most will fail and those who don't are not in need of my services anyhow. But unfortunately I am not allowed to give it out. Good luck.


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## Syphon Filter

Yeah, dealers and programmers are not supposed to give out software so I dont think you will get much luck there.


Also the time required to program is really dependant on what/how much equipment you have.


Do you have any more details on what you require?


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## cabledawg

im a red headed southern irishman so im uses to getting bashed







it doesnt bother me that programmers will raise a fuss honestly.im not looking to become a cert. programmer,nor want to attempt install in customer homes.i just want a decent system for myself as im a low-voltage super-freak.


up until recently i had a 10x25' storage unit filled with anything you could image,old CCTV,satellite,alarm panels,fire panels computers,servers, alot of stuff.but being the economy is in the slumps my wife made me pick thru it and whatever didnt fit on 'my' side of the garage had to go.


just like the nike/muhammed ali poster "impossible is nothing".i understand that the programming is a pain,as ive been reading up on it .in 1987 my friends said i couldnt build a apple mac clone but i did.if it takes me 6mos to a year to program a crestron system it will still be worth it IMO.i look at ebay as sort of a "low end" crestron setup(as crestron only aims at high end i.e. wealthy clients)most other companies make products for high and low consumers,so ebay is just my take on the companies low end.


ive had people suggest everything from x10(still have alot of modules(not in use)) to a server running CQC and I/O boards but its not a crestron.


to answer your question,i have currently x2 cnmsx-pro/x1 cnmsx-av/x2 stx-1550c/x1 cresnet IIms/x1 cnrfgw/x1 st-cp/x1 cnxb4a/x1 tps-3000/x1 strfgwx


software: crestron toolbox 1.12.027.02,database 19.06.010,SIMPL debugger,SIMPL scripter,TIA menu builder,VPT address book,VPTcomserver,test console,test pullers and a corrupted winDEAL IRlearner.


i have amassed all this in under a month.as well as EVERY document off the crestron site and some off-site(i love retrevo.com)


i dont plan on using everything i have, and to do what i want there are still some pieces i need to acquire.


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## GoGo Delicious




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16291481
> 
> 
> . . .so,im down to trying to purchase the software(probably not going to happen this century) or finding someone to program it remotely and upload myself.



That will be the hardest part.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16291481
> 
> 
> my question is how much hourly is the going rate?



As far as pricing goes there are a lot of factors to consider. 1st project factors. How complex is this project, are you just doing AV or AV, Lighting, Shades, etc.


The second fact you will be looking at is skill level. Do you want some who just went to 1 or 2 programming classes, do you want some one who went through all the classes and has years of experience but not Crestron Certified, do you want a Certified Crestron Programmer or even a Crestron Master Programmer? For a experienced programmer who knows what they are doing you are looking at starting rates of about $125 - $175 per hour and they will go up from there. This is not the 1 or 2 class, 3 project System Builder, with 2 years of experience type of programmer either.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16291481
> 
> 
> i have the GUI i want to use,i know what i want to control and how.it would probably be 2-3hrs,so what can i expect to pay for this?



Having the GUI is not a big issue and saves little time. The programmer still has to program the TP in VT Pro-e and again depending how complex you want the programming will dictate pricing. For example, if you have Sirius or XM and you hold down a favorite settings button to remember a station do do you want to automatically pull in the station logo or just display the name?


As far as programming hours go how do you come up with 2-3 if you never programmed a Crestron system before? Your posts does not mention that you did, so how do you know what it will take and what the complexities are?


These are just a few things to think about.


Also, out of curiosity, what Crestron equipment do you have and what versions of the DB and SIMPL Windows?


Good luck on your quest in obtaining the software.


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## cabledawg

yeah i know getting the software is the hard part,and there is going to be those who blast me for even asking im sure.but it doesnt hurt to ask.


starting off i want it to be pretty simple i guess.mainly control my simple theater,eventually control all A?V in house which is still pretty basic setup.HVAC and lighting would be nice but not necessary at the moment.i can get by with my insteon for now as im just controlling a few lights with switches and PIR's and 3 remotes.


i have never programmed any crestron,if i had i would have the software needed for this project.i know that there have been people who say that they are willing to try and have some computer language skills.i only claim to have the patience and the desire to try.if it takes me 6mos to a year to program an entry level setup it will be worth it.im one of those that always wants great products in different fields.i have 2 hp rackmount servers which i rebuilt and im in the process of configuring,and i just started with servers 2 weeks ago.if you have patience and a solid determination anything is possible










as far as the 2-3hrs it was just a estimate talking with several installers and explaining what i had and wanted.basically i just want 1 touchpanel and control over my theater setup which as i said is basic compared to those here.for now i have a sony 61" rear-proj(ive had this for over 6yrs since i bought it new for 2600.00,i take care of my electronics,dusting weekly and air dusting monthly)a sony receiver 7.1ch,a HDTV DVR,a nFusion solaris FTA.thats abut it,i would also like to control my HTPC but not if its a hassle.


currently im controlling everything with harmony 880's and xantech IR.it works,but having a GUI touchpanel and the ability to integrate everything at some point on one system would just be tits










once again if ive offended anyone by just asking for software i meant no harm.but at the same time i dont apologize either.i could have paid a local integrator $2700 to do my infrastructure wiring,but i did it for a fraction of the cost the same if not better.plus i received the satisfaction of doing it myself.


anything is possible.if one has the determination and financial backing,breaking into fort knox and stealing the gold is possible,not easy,but possible.


*i had tried posting a reply earlier to one of the above posters but it didnt make it here for some reason.


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## stefuel

When you finally come up with the software, I'll bet you won't have one device working in three hours









If it sounds like I've been in that boat it's because I have. Damn near sank the boat.


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## cabledawg

your funny







,and sarcastic







i like that.3hrs, i might have something working,might not.but i dont plan to try and rush into it.if it takes me 6mos to a year to get everything working ill be happy.


ive been living with x10 and insteon so i can keep using those while i work on this.


now,if i do have something working in 3 hrs,what do i win?and if i dont what do i lose?


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## wolfsnake

Cabledawg - I understand your desire to want to "do-it-yourself". But Crestron programming is kind of like running new plumbing in your house - you can do it yourself, but you're not sure in the end if it's going to right. I'd say your best bet is to find a programmer that won't gauge you in price, but is concerned with doing the job right. I don't know that they will show you how to program, but they might not mind you looking over their shoulder.


If you'd like - i can take a look at your system and program it for you. Where are you located?


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## cabledawg

thanks for the advice.im getting blasted in PM's and email but unless its my wife or brother doing it it doesnt bother me a bit










with my latest purchase on ebay i think i have the ability to acquire another piece of software needed.ive spent the last 3 days 'learning' vtproe,so far i have 6 pages,not anything to brag about but being that i first used vtproe 3 days ago i think im 'not doing bad'.


as far as my system,its nothing major,yet.for crestron i have

x2 cnmsx-av(1 not verified working)

x1 cnmsx-pro(cant verify if working)

x1 st1550

x1 st1550c

x1 cnmk

x1 st-10

x1 st-cp

x1 st-vs

(plus a few other misc. pieces that i need to find in my low voltage mess)

i still need the db9-db9(does this have to be crestron made?)


equipment list,not sure exactly what i can control with what i have so far.im still 'mapping' things out.


media closet:

x2 scientific atlantic hd dvr

x2 nFusion solaris fta

x3 sony 200disc cd changers(hardly used-mainly mp3's played off HTPC)

x1 toshiba dvd player

x1 jvc 5.1ch(getting swapped to sony 7.1)used in liv rm

x1 sony 5.1ch(feeding 5.1ch into my ofc.spkrs B feeding selector)

hp proliant ml530 server(stores mp3's/dvd rips/scheduled backups)

hp proliant dl350(trying to get configured for ftp/web serving)

scientific atlanta 2100 cable modem

motorola sb5101 cable modem

3com cr870-95 VPN

linksys srw208g gigabit


living rm:

sony 61"(cctv/hd dvr/fta accessed via modulation)


my office:

sony 36"(cctv/hddvr/fta accessed via modulation)

HTPC(currently running A/V into closet to receiver.cant control in livrm)


master ste:

sony 36"(catv normal.hd dvr/fta/cctv accessed via modulation)

clg speakers from speakers 'b' thru 6ch soundcraft selector-no ir control


master ba:

clg speakers "same as above"


din rm:

clg speakers "same as above"


garage:

sony 27"(catv- hd dvr/fta/cctv accessed via modulation)

clg speakers "same as above"


porch:

sony 27" 'same as above'

speakers "same as above"


horseshoe pits:

rock speakers-2pr "same as above"


dont know if you still need more info


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## cabledawg

adding to above,i also have 2 reef tanks being monitored/controlled by a neptune systems ACpro.it uses x10 4&8 outlet power strips as well as x10 modules.i can access it via web or telnet.having the status available on a touch panel would be nice but being that the main tank is in liv rm its not a major deal,depending on price/programming dificulty.


im currently using insteon to control lighting inside and out.at some point i would like to get them configured on the crestron,but the price to swap over to crestron sw/dim isnt an option yet.


i would like to swap the speaker selector to something that i dont have to manually push buttons.im still researching this on the web.


my cctv cameras arent individually IP but the dvr has IP.viewing on a panel isnt necessary as i can switch inputs on TV


the HTPC is in my office as i also use it as my PC.its a intel P4 3.0ghx/4g ram/120g os drive/320g whatever drive.it currently has XPpro/MCE and im evaluating sageTV/beyondTV trying to decide which one to go with.


ive heard mention here and there that crestron can do security which might be an option in the future.currently im using a DSCpc5020/x3 pc5108/pc5132/4 lcd kpds.it currently has 58 zones so switching to crestron might be expensive.


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## wolfsnake




> Quote:
> if it takes me 6mos to a year to get everything working ill be happy.



Sounds like you're going to attempt this yourself...Good luck - let us know how it turns out!


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16308274
> 
> 
> ive heard mention here and there that crestron can do security which might be an option in the future.currently im using a DSCpc5020/x3 pc5108/pc5132/4 lcd kpds.it currently has 58 zones so switching to crestron might be expensive.



Theoretically speaking yes Crestron could do security. Practically speaking it never does. No reason to. You just integrate it with a security system via the RS-232 port on the security system at which point you can control security via Crestron. You'd have to check on the model of the system you own to see how well it can be integrated, if at all. If not, GE Concord, HAI and Elk are three of the better systems out there for integration.


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## cabledawg

thanks guys.i know lots of installers integrators try and steer DIYer's away from this but im on a mission.im not expecting to have some 'mtv cribs' type of setup but over time and with great help i think i can have a system to be proud of.


security wise,im a DSC man hands down for several years.i can almost program them in my head.i dont think that they can tie into and integrated controller but the DSC MAXXYS might as it is higher end.i have the model just below that a 5020,it can do 32 address x10 with the optional ESCORT module but thats about it.


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## smoothtlk

I am pretty sure Homeseer PC HA software supports one or more DSC panels...therefore it is possible. Not sure if there is a Crestron driver written for it.


If you are thinking of taking on Crestron programming, then switching to an ELK security panel and learning how to program that is a piece o cake. That panel (and HAI) is supported by Crestron.


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## CJO

You have a long journy ahead of you.. take it from someone who knows. The first thing that I would do, if I were you, would be to sit down with a Crestron catalog, map out your system, and see what equipment you really need. One thing that I didn't see in your list of cabling is Crestnet- have you run any of it?


CJ


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## Neurorad

The Elk M1 is Crestron compatible - but not very much so, from what I've read. Limited integration.


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## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16318599
> 
> 
> thanks guys.i know lots of installers integrators try and steer DIYer's away from this but im on a mission.im not expecting to have some 'mtv cribs' type of setup but over time and with great help i think i can have a system to be proud of.
> 
> 
> security wise,im a DSC man hands down for several years.i can almost program them in my head.i dont think that they can tie into and integrated controller but the DSC MAXXYS might as it is higher end.i have the model just below that a 5020,it can do 32 address x10 with the optional ESCORT module but thats about it.



CableDawg your best bet is to give crestron a call directly and tell them your situation and see if they'll release the software to you. They probably wont but apparently you're not afraid to ask so what could it hurt?


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## GregH

If you want to get a ballpark figure for programming a system I usually start with about 3 hours/device. So lets say you a a TV, receiver, DVD, DVR and a VCR. That'd be 15 hours which works out to about 2 days and that's pretty close. If you add side monitors or extra zones of audio then you might take that number and add .5 per zone. In the case of client owned gear (particularly scavenged off Ebay) a programmer might just double their estimate because you can spend half a day trying to find codes, getting an emitter in the right spot or some other time sink just because you can't assume anything in that situation.


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## fstsk8er

How is the project going do you have a update for us.


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## cabledawg

Well I have had reservations on posting this but with the large following and PM's here we go.


First to all those who said I was wasting my time,wouldnt get anything working and it is too hard of a system to DIY,now is the time where I say... bow down!bow down you self righteous,thinking your high and mighty ghost of a shell, (insert remark here).


Im not saying that I could go out and do what you certified programmers can do by any means,Im just sad that you think you have the right to blast those that want to try a Crestron DIY project because they cant justify spending $8k on a system.


In two months I went from having nothing but a desire to have a Crestron setup to having one SELF PROGRAMMED and FUNCTIONAL.I did have assistance from a generous person who was in my shoes 3 years ago.I admit the logic is tricky at times.The problem I was having was I was looking to deep into the logic,making it harder to understand.After some advice and taking a step back and looking at it in simpler aspect it started to become a lot easier.


once again Ill state that Im not some expert yet,but going from zero to functional in 2 months is a great start,it is possible.One thing that didnt help was from the certified programmers hyping the programming up to be so hard that there was why I was looking into it too deeply.Its not easy at all,but once you commit yourself(and have someone to answer questions) you can do it.


here is where Ill get some more bashing aimed at me(as if Im not already immune by now).my system is pretty basic but I will be upgrading soon.Another thing I cant stress enough is the initial purchases of equipment.Dont rush out like I did and end up with equipment that isnt compatible or is outdated fro what you want to accomplish.Take you time,look at the products,have a game plan for A)what you want to accomplish control wise at the start and B)what you might want in the future.


my first mistake in purchasing was with a st1550 and a cnmsx-av.I received the items and downloaded the PDF's from crestron to find out I couldnt use them without a gateway for the panel to communicate with the processor.Then realized that the st1550 is only 1way communication which wasnt going to work for what i needed(but i did find a use for it as Ill explain later).


so,after purchasing a second gateway(first one was 418mhz and st1550 was 433mhz) i had the basic components to start my project.


Software,this is the biggest most soul crushing part od the whole project,getting copies of it.After getting bashed and receiving several non-inspiring emails about even asking for the software on forums,I even tried file sharing sites with no luck.finally one night I was determined(and zeeked out of my mind on mountain dew,DO THE DEW!) I did a google search and went thru page after page of links and found a site that actually has it available for download.Now it wasnt easy and I dont know what kind of site it is but there it was,basically every crestron software available for immediate download.


Now I had to do several searches on the site itself in different fashion to get everything.searching crestron deal ended up with different results than searching crestron DEAL.Some of the sub-sites it sends you too,contain German and Duetch language,but the software is English versions and labeled as such.I now have crestron toolbox,database,DEAL,SIMPL,SIMPL+,engraver,systembuilder and some assorted others.


Now to my next mistake,obtaining the correct programming cables.I ordered 2 cables off ebay and the one supposed to be for the touchpanel was actually for a series I didnt have.I ended up making one from a 3.5mm interconnect and a phoenix adapter.The cable from the PC to the processor is just a DB9-DB9.


Ok,now it was time to do the GUI on the touchpanel.having a st1550 limits you to its appearance,no color or oblong buttons.this is actually a godsend as its easy to start learning in the most basic way,limiting you to not trying Picasso like GUI.The pages gave me a problem as I wasnt joining them I was trying to do page flips and doing it wrong anyway.after several attemts and about 5 hours I had 2 pages.Next mistake,not putting a 'home' or 'return' button on the second page allowing me to get back to the 'main' page.So finally I ended up with a 'main' page and a 2nd page for TV,now to use SIMPL to program the processor.


SIMPL is a pretty good name for this program(basically) as it allows drag and drop of devices,both crestron and user.Now to add logic,this is where I started looking to deep into things.I saw button press symbol in logic drop down and thought hey,I need to push a button to get things to work so I need one of these for every button.Big mistake(how many am I on so far),next mistake(this is getting repetitive) just dragging logic symbols over and not labeling the inputs and outputs.


Another word of advice,save each program you make,even if the end product doesnt work.I learned so much from going back and looking at my mistakes.


also,there is Help option in programs,use it.say you dont understand an 'interlock' logic symbol.Help will define it and give you an example diagram.Now not all of the help gives a diagram but usually the more intricate ones do.



Now to my system as of today.x1 MC2e with a CNMSX-PRO on a COM port(actually this is a stand alone processor but its being used for its 8 Ir ports and i/o ports),x1 st1550(remember earlier I told you I found a use for this.Its next to my horseshoe pits!dont need anything fancy there),x2 stx1700's,st-vs,st-io,x1 cnrfgwa,x1 cnfrgwx.


This setup controls 3-4 TV's,3 recievers,2 cd chngers,1 bluray,2 dvd players my caddx alarm and my garage door(I hate having to get up and check to see if its shut)


Now this wouldnt be possible without the superb help of someone that was in my shoes years ago and getting me pointed in the right direction,I owe him a lot of gratitude.I hope to someday be more knowledgeable and can do the same for someone like me.


I am seriously entertaining the idea of getting an extra sever of mine up and running for a crestron DIY site,where ANY! and ALL! are welcome.If anyone is interested in this please contact me.


Please help keep the dream alive of DIYer's wanting to have Crestron systems.



DISCLAIMER's


****I will try to help anyone who asks,I will however not post nor send software to you for legal reasons,if theres a lawyer in the house give me a PM,otherwise I have no problems posting or sending examples of MY programming and such.****


****please,please if you do get equipment off ebay,realize that it is not covered by Crestron warranty and do not contact them for any reason,this is a part of why it is so hard for DIYer's to accomplish this.Crestron should not be contacted for ANY reason,not onluy are you wasting your time,but you are also wasting theirs****


****if you are a certified dealer or programmer and are offended by this,please realize that I dont care and continue to bash me and send hateful PM's as much as you like****


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## cabledawg

QQQ

AVS Special Member


Join Date: Jan 2002

Posts: 10,615


cabledawg, I hope you have thick skin because you may be about to get hit with lots of posts criticizing you for daring to ask for the software. Personally I believe it should be available and am not threatened by the idea that a small percentage of people want to try to program it themselves. Most will fail and those who don't are not in need of my services anyhow. But unfortunately I am not allowed to give it out. Good luck.



this statement is exactly what Im talking about as quoted from above


"I believe it should be available and am not threatened by the idea that a small percentage of people want to try to program it themselves. Most will fail and those who don't are not in need of my services anyhow."


thank you QQQ,I agree that there are very few and from that, it doesnt affect the delear/programmer in a catastrophic way.


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## fstsk8er

Hey Cabledawg, I am a certified programmer and I started just the way you did all I have to say is RIGHT ON MAN. it is a hard thing to get started with no help and get something working. like I said RIGHT ON MAN. if you need or want anyone to look at your code let me know I am willing to look at it. I think that it is cool that you got it working. keep up the good work!!!!!!


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## cabledawg

Thank you very much fstsk8tr,its good to hear positive input,all the negative comments that Ive been receiving have been overwhelming.Instead of people wasting their time to post and PM negative remarks,giving positive input or none at all would be better.


And as you say,its hard to get started without any help.thats how it was for me when I was 9 years old and I wanted to learn how to install alarm systems,everyone laughed at me due to my age.I finally got some help from a tech who was swapping out a panel at my fathers business,not only did he give me the old equipment,he gave me some wire and a copy of the installation manual and programming worksheets.about 2 weeks later I had an alarm in my tree fort










thanks again for the kind comments


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## CJO

I'm not sure how bad the PM's were that you got, but all of the posts here seem to be mainly supportive. In fact, I'm a little bit jealous of you. I started out trying to DIY my Crestron system a couple of years ago. I have it up and working fairly well using SystemBuilder, but I still haven't gotten around to learning SIMPL.


CJ


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## cabledawg

Its been pretty mixed as of lately,I was referring to all forum sites in general as some are members of more than one.The PM's here havent been as bad or numerous as other forums,I will admit that I hav been a time bo,b that finally timed up.Ive never understood why people will take their time to write something negative,or blast someone saying it cant be done.


Ive never used systembuilder,mainly because I couldnt find a copy anywhere to download that worked,I havent even seen screenshots of it.


I dont know the learning curve on systembuilder,SIMPL to me is still a process.I have my system working,altho its mainly touchpanel straight to IR,the COM programming for the hookup between the two processors was mainly done by a friend whos been helping me.He took the time to email me,instruct over the phone and even do a remote assistance so I could actually see what he was doing.Finding someone whos willing to help show you is really helpful getting started.Thats what I couldnt believe in all the forums,everybody wanted to help,but at a price and they wanted to do it themselves without allowing me to 'look over their shoulder' so I could learn.


I still stand by my statement that I have alot to learn about this great product,and in time I will get a better understanding.I just want to show people that it is possible to DIY crestron and that they shouldnt give up easily.


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## cabledawg

Oh and CJ dont be jealous,you couldnt even believe how many times at sat and stared at the processor wanting to hit it with a sledge-hammer,or how many times I held the touchpanel in my hands wanting to throw it.


My next step is going to be learning how to design a better GUI,the st1550 is of course just basic design and the stx1700's pretty much the same with just a splash of color.Ive done several searches for templates but all end up with needing to be purchased for $300 or more.Being that I have no intention to become a programmer,I dont want to spend the money on something just to have the rights to use it commercially.It would be just for my mediocre system.Id rather try the GUI myself and save the money for another touchpanel or device.


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## CJO

Talk to IVB about GUI design... He's done a great job with CQC.


CJ


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## cabledawg

Thanks for the heads up CJ.this is what forums are for,helping others out.


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## IVB

any of youse guys know whether you can import photoshop into Crestron? I got a PM from cabledawg, i've got tons of photoshop stuff that's my creation, not sure whether it can be pulled into crestron or not.


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## cabledawg

I was just on the crestron site and their free templates are in photoshop.has anyone downloaded these or tried to use photoshop?


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## da_pirate

i've tried some of their free templates. they are just image. Meaning of buttons, or backgrounds or both. You can put anything into VT-Pro (crestron's gui design tool). Depending on the panel (whether it supports PNG), you simply save your images or export from photoshop in bmp or png. PNG is always my preference for transparency. However, some of their older panels don't natively support it. The newer ones all do. So basically if you made a button say size 45X45 in photoshop, you would just create a standard button in VT-Pro the same size and then add your graphic on it and then that would be your button. Same as you do for say pronto software. You just have to do active and inactive states. Also if you have a cool background you are trying to place, draw an object the size of the panel or background and place your image there. Easy as 1-2-3


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## cabledawg

Thanks Pirate,I was hoping it was something that easy.Ive been using p'shop since it came out on the Mac years ago and have kept up to date with the newer versions.


For the moment Im using a st1550 and 2 stx1700c so not too fancy but I would like something better than what I have now,and for when I upgrade panels.


thanks again,Mark.


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## 39CentStamp

VTPRO has a button tool that allows you to draw any size button you want. Then you can edit the properties of the button and add an image as the active state and an image as the inactive state. This is how every touchscreen based controller is that i have ever come across. da_pirate covered this above.


Some of the older panels that did not support transparent .pngs... will now, with a firmware update. TPMC-10 is one i know for sure because i did it a few months back. The ST-1550 wont play well with flashy graphics, the stx-1700 is a little better. Neither will work with transparent images (i think) but both will work with flat PNG files which IMO look the best.


The best way to go about it with your touchscreens cabledawg is to use a solid background in your vtpro file and create buttons on top of a solid color in photoshop so that you can move your sliced buttons wherever you want in vtpro.











The other option is to completely layout the touchscreen in photoshop and slice it all up and put it back together in vtpro. This will allow you to have fancier looks but it will limit your ability to tweak placement later.


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *IVB* /forum/post/16457012
> 
> 
> any of youse guys know whether you can import photoshop into Crestron? I got a PM from cabledawg, i've got tons of photoshop stuff that's my creation, not sure whether it can be pulled into crestron or not.



You can indeed. But it all depends on the capability of the touch screen you are creating the UI for. Some support PNG transparency others do not.


In the case of the ones that don't you can bleed on a solid colour though, for example you could create a button with a solid red (255,0,0) border around it and get the crestron software to bleed (basically remove) all pixels of that particular object which are a match for the red (255,0,0).


It's a bit difficult to explain, perhaps I am not being articulate enough. If you need more help PM me and we can talk MSN or something.


EDIT:


The description above is good but the way I work is to ahve the background as anything I want (usually not a solid colour). Then the buttons I create in photoshop have a solid border (as I describe above) and any layer effects (bevels, highlights etc) go INSIDE the button border. This way you can make nice looking buttons which have all the layer effects etc within the solid border which can then be bled out of view. This way I can achieve the abiliy to move the button about anywhere i like on my layouts but also have ncie layer effects on the button and a background that is more than just a solid colour.


Also the suggestion of creating your entire layout in photoshop and then slicing/exporting is great and it will work, but it's incredibly labour intensive IMO as every button will be a seperate image (ie an image for every button in every position). The way I work is to create a style/theme which consists of a background image (which gets used through all pages of the layout) and a selection of buttons, say 5, each with an inactive and active state (more if various button modes are used). That way I can create complete layouts with a reduced number of images whilst maintaining flexibility.


----------



## 39CentStamp

Im interested in the 'bleed' technique Syphon Filter. If you have time would you mind sending me a vtpro file that has a single page with a single button in it so that i can see what your doing? Thanks if you can, if you cant i understand







.


----------



## Syphon Filter

Quote:

Originally Posted by *39CentStamp* 
Im interested in the 'bleed' technique Syphon Filter. If you have time would you mind sending me a vtpro file that has a single page with a single button in it so that i can see what your doing? Thanks if you can, if you cant i understand







.
I'll do it shortly and add it as an attachment to a post in this thread (this particular post if there have been no further replies...)


EDIT:


Right, I dont have all my graphics libraries and stuff with me so I've had to knock up a fairly ropey looking example. Check out the VTP file in the attached zip file.


If you open up one of the button's properties and click the graphics tab you will have a drop down on the right hand side of the middle area.


Select the "Background" option. You should now see two radio buttons, "Opaque" and "Transparent".


Opaque means no bleed colour and what you see on your button graphic is what you get. If you change to transparent you can now pick a colour (any RGB 0-255 colour you want) and when you do so, VTPro-E will "bleed" (read: magic away) any pixel that matches your chosen RGB value from the button graphic. In my example I have used 255,0,0 (pure red) as my bleed colour and so every pixel in my button graphic that is 255,0,0 is no longer visible.


Obviously doing this means you have to pick a bleed colour that you do not intend to use anywhere in your button graphics but I dont find this a problem. Also, as it is has to match an exact colour it's easy to pick something, like pure red, and then if you find you need to use it, just use one RGB value off, so for pure red you could use 255,1,0 which would near as damnit be pure red.


I hope this makes sense and the attached example helps. Any questions, let me know and I'll try to help out.

 

Colour Bleed Sample.zip 62.3369140625k . file


----------



## CJO

39CentStamp- good to see you over here!


CJ


----------



## 39CentStamp

Thank you Syphon Filter. The example file is exactly what i was looking for and you explained it perfectly.


By leaving the edges of the button "hard" instead of anti-alias you can take advantage of the bleed feature in VTPro-e. Perfect solution for panels that dont support transparent png's.


Edit......


Adding this screenshot of my testing


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CJO* /forum/post/16470501
> 
> 
> 39CentStamp- good to see you over here!
> 
> 
> CJ



No freaking way are you Dark Knight theater! Ha.. i never made the connection before.


Everytime i look thru a theater build thread i walk by my plasma and give it a dirty look







.


----------



## CJO

Don't get too jealous (at least with mine). At least you can turn your plasma on. I haven't even ordered a projector yet!


CJ


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *CJO* /forum/post/16470971
> 
> 
> Don't get too jealous (at least with mine). At least you can turn your plasma on. I haven't even ordered a projector yet!
> 
> 
> CJ



Might i make a suggestion...


----------



## CJO

I'll provide the space if you provide the hardware










CJ


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks guys,your input and examples were very helpful.Im going to start with the solid background at first.I dont have any great panels,still using a st1550 and 2 stx1700 so nothing flashy.


thanks again,I hope other DIYer's see this and want to get on board.


----------



## Syphon Filter

If you want, why don't you post your program (in zipped archive format) and some of us could take a look at it for you and give you some pointers etc?


----------



## kylekaplan

I too started out much like you, knowing nothing about Crestron and learning on the fly! I work at a high-end A/V store in Michigan and have recently taken over the IT guy position and that includes Crestron! I was taught by the previous IT guy and have learned by playing around with an AV2 with a few touch-panels including TPMC-8x, TPMC-12L, TPMC-4xg, as well as others. I have used Crestron's TrueBlue tech support to no end and found the guys who understand where I'm coming from and like to help me out. I would be more than willing to take a look at your programs and give you any help that I could. I think that the more we look at how others do things and it helps us get a new perspective on, what we can all agree can get complicated very quickly! Hope we can all work together to share out knowledge.


----------



## Dahwoo

I would just like to note that if you do have any of "us" look at your code you may get a mixed bag of opinions. There are many ways to get to the same place and a lot of us think our way is the best.


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/16484304
> 
> 
> I would just like to note that if you do have any of "us" look at your code you may get a mixed bag of opinions. There are many ways to get to the same place and a lot of us think our way is the best.



Quite right. Programming is one of those cat skinning'esque things...


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16448048
> 
> 
> ****if you are a certified dealer or programmer and are offended by this,please realize that I dont care and continue to bash me and send hateful PM's as much as you like****



Whats the point of bashing you if you dont care. Your no fun.


----------



## cabledawg

39CentStamp-"Whats the point of bashing you if you dont care. Your no fun"


Ok ok,if I shed a tear here and there will that add some fun to the game?If it helps me get a better grasp of Crestron I might even get into the fetal position and suck my thumb


Im not bashing every programmer or dealer,just those that were...well,not so nice to me and others talking about DIYing Crestron.


well new development,some of my equipment crapped out on me,no refund with ebay purchase so back to using the CNMSX-pro until I can get another processor.


new project is controlling a garage door,having major trouble trying to get correct logic that if I press door close button on panel AND the NC contact on door is closed that it wont open the door.


NOT's,AND's and OR's are killing me.I have the SIMPL primer PDF and SIMPL cookbook,but maybe Im just not seeing what I need....learning from my mistakes are helping.


----------



## cabledawg

Im getting too far ahead of myself with the garage door idea.Im still not knowledgeable enough to get my program trimmed out.It works,but its not finished and as I add more of my equipment in the mix I find myself making more mistakes.


I dont have anything fancy as most guys here,I dont even have a flat screen as it was broken during my move.I did just buy a Sony DA4ES recently and this is probably my nicest piece of AV equipment.I have more money tied up in my intrusion alarm and CCTV system.


Ive been looking into the DSC IT-100 interface to connect my alarm to the Crestron but havent even looked into serial programming so that will be a 'learning' project.


I also have several reef tanks and need to get equipment that supports xpanel so I can interface with my reef controllers.


..and then...who knows,maybe wire my wife into the mix so I have more control


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16487123
> 
> 
> ..and then...who knows,maybe wire my wife into the mix so I have more control



Perfect timing. I just added an entry @ my blog about a touchscreen screenshot, i saw while browsing a remotecentral forum reg's home page :

* GIRLFRIEND CONTROLS *


----------



## cabledawg

Sweet! I actually drafted a touchpanel page as a joke for my wife that had funny control buttons.She's a good sport and got a kick out of it,


...little does she know Im actually going to have a page like it on one of the touchpanels


----------



## CJO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16487123
> 
> 
> I also have several reef tanks and need to get equipment that supports xpanel so I can interface with my reef controllers.



I would definitely leave this until last if you are planning on controlling it with Crestron. Just think of what might happen if you put in an OR when you should have used an AND..


CJ


----------



## cabledawg

I wasnt going to control the Aquacontroller III with crestron,just use xpanel to view status.


Christ,it took me 3 yrs to trust using the AC III on my tanks,Its been 1 year since I added it and I cant remember why I didnt earlier.Takes the constant user required tasks and makes them easier.


----------



## cabledawg

Well I had a problem with some hardware so Im back to using the CNMSX-pro.Ive looked at the ISC and was wondering if I could use these to have both processors connected.I know you can only have 1 processor on cresnet but I was hoping to use the second for just my alarm as I've heard that alarm panels create alot of talk on communictioans line.


Also would like to get the rain8net to replace current basic irrigation control and have it on the second processor as well.


Any hint to using the Inter sysytem Control modules from anybody?


And finally concerning the digital I/O's,can I use a NC magnetic contact to trigger or is a low-voltage trigger required?


----------



## fstsk8er

you can have more then 1 proc on the network just you have to set up one as a slave. at that point is nothing more then ports.


----------



## spinsic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16504907
> 
> 
> Well I had a problem with some hardware so Im back to using the CNMSX-pro.Ive looked at the ISC and was wondering if I could use these to have both processors connected.I know you can only have 1 processor on cresnet but I was hoping to use the second for just my alarm as I've heard that alarm panels create alot of talk on communictioans line.
> 
> 
> Also would like to get the rain8net to replace current basic irrigation control and have it on the second processor as well.
> 
> 
> Any hint to using the Inter sysytem Control modules from anybody?
> 
> 
> And finally concerning the digital I/O's,can I use a NC magnetic contact to trigger or is a low-voltage trigger required?



Nice work cabledawg. I started the same way you did about 7 years ago... It sounds like you're well on your way.


Before I get in too deep, remember that F1 is your friend. Click on an EISC symbol in Simpl and hit F1. You'll learn more that way about symbols and how they work than you will at a Crestron programming class.


The EISC symbol should work for you just fine. Enter the IP address of the other processor in each EISC symbol (Simpl configure view). Set both to the same IP ID. Leave both symbol definitions blank in the program view, compile and load. After the 2 series reboots, connect to it in toolbox, go to text console, and type the command "EST" (ethernet status). The EST command is Crestron's equivalent of a DOS ipconfig command. It will show various ethernet info, but most importantly in your case, it will show the connection status of each IP table device. Look for the IP ID that you set up for the EISCs in Simpl. If it shows connected, you've successfully bridged the communication gap between processors.


Now that you're connected (hopefully), open up the EISC symbol in program view on the 2-series. It will, for the most, part resemble a 2-way touch panel definition. It's very simple how it all works. Start off by creating a button press signal from one of your touchpanels. Call it whatever you want. Connect that signal to "dig-o1" on the EISC. Next, type in a signal on "dig-i1" on the x-gen EISC, call it the same as you did on the 2-series if you'd like. At that point, you've created a signal path between the two processor and can use the signal on "dig-01" for a program trigger on the x-gen. Think of it as outputs and inputs (thus the definition naming of dig-o1 and i1). You take a signal and "output" it from one EISC and "input" it to the other


I may have made it sound more confusing than it is.....F1


Yes, you can connect your magnetic contact to an I/O. You may need to use it in conjunction with a "not" symbol to achieve the results you're looking for. If the contact is something you can put on your security system, why not monitor the contact through it, assuming your alarm panel provides individual zone feedback.


Enjoy your new system!


----------



## spinsic




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fstsk8er* /forum/post/16505587
> 
> 
> you can have more then 1 proc on the network just you have to set up one as a slave. at that point is nothing more then ports.




He's trying to get his chatty security panel separated from the main system. Slaving them doesn't do that...


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks for the advice guys,unfortunately I dont have an IP capable processor yet.I want to connect a CNMSX-pro to a CNMSX-av thru the COM ports.When I do get a enet processor,which hopefully will be soon,I probably wont need a second processor,my house isnt that big and I dont have too many sources to control.


I have a DSC 5020 with 52 zones.What Im trying to control with the magnetic contact is my garage door.It is already being monitored,I just want the ability to close my overhead door from touchpanel.I already added a second magnetic contact for this.


Im thrilled that knowledgeable people are willing to take the time to help those up us who cant afford 10k systems.


----------



## 39CentStamp

I spent the last 2 days creating a GUI for panels that dont support transparent .png's. This would have been a bit more difficult without your tip Syphon Filter. Thank you!


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *39CentStamp* /forum/post/16519532
> 
> 
> I spent the last 2 days creating a GUI for panels that dont support transparent .png's. This would have been a bit more difficult without your tip Syphon Filter. Thank you!



hehe! No worries. The older panels are pretty basic in terms of the graphics abilities but the bleed option goes some way to helping you make them look half decent.


Obviously with the newer panels with PNG support it's a whole lot easier!!


----------



## summittrekker

First, this is my very first post so please be gentle. Although I have come to AVSforum many times over the years to get opinions and education on this constantly changing hobby of ours. However, I must give two thumbs up to cabledawg! Many of the HA firms have such closed systems that it actually prevents consumers from dipping their toes in the water. I applauded you for all the DIYers around the world. I am going to take the LEAP!


I was thinking about purchasing a Control4 HC-300 or a Crestron Adagio AES off of Ebay to run a very simple home heather setup. My question; which one would be easier and how hard is it to DIY a simple HT setup.


I currently have a Tivo Series 2 box, DISH Sat, HD-DVD, a Sony XBR TV, Squeezebox Duet, a networked 1tb HD with about 300gbs of music and a Yamaha RX-V1 receiver that I would control via RS232 interface and Martin Logan Aerius speakers. Since my home is already up I would need an all wireless solution although we do have structured Cat5 wiring to each room. It was my hope to combine all the remotes and possibly use my Iphone down the line to control everything. At some point (6 months) if we move to a new house add 2-4 zones of music only, have 3 - 5 lights controlled, temp and add a closeout Pioneer KURO PDP-5020FD and Classe SSP-600 .


Thanks


----------



## Blowne30M3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *summittrekker* /forum/post/16590309
> 
> 
> First, this is my very first post so please be gentle. Although I have come to AVSforum many times over the years to get opinions and education on this constantly changing hobby of ours. However, I must give two thumbs up to cabledawg! Many of the HA firms have such closed systems that it actually prevents consumers from dipping their toes in the water. I applauded you for all the DIYers around the world. I am going to take the LEAP!
> 
> 
> I was thinking about purchasing a Control4 HC-300 or a Crestron Adagio AES off of Ebay to run a very simple home heather setup. My question; which one would be easier and how hard is it to DIY a simple HT setup.
> 
> 
> I currently have a Tivo Series 2 box, DISH Sat, HD-DVD, a Sony XBR TV, Squeezebox Duet, a networked 1tb HD with about 300gbs of music and a Yamaha RX-V1 receiver that I would control via RS232 interface and Martin Logan Aerius speakers. Since my home is already up I would need an all wireless solution although we do have structured Cat5 wiring to each room. It was my hope to combine all the remotes and possibly use my Iphone down the line to control everything. At some point (6 months) if we move to a new house add 2-4 zones of music only, have 3 - 5 lights controlled, temp and add a closeout Pioneer KURO PDP-5020FD and Classe SSP-600 .
> 
> 
> Thanks



I won't speak on the Control4 solution as I don't like their product and I think it fails in comparison to Crestron. As for the AES, it will definitely give you want you need now and later down the road. It comes with multiple IR outputs, 2 COM ports, ethernet connectivity, and 6 zones of amplified audio. You can also use your iphone from the getgo.


As for DIY programming, it depends on your skill level with computers. Crestron programming takes some learning to get used to, but the Adagio systems make it fairly easy for small systems. I would suggest getting someone here to write you a program for fairly cheap, taking that program and learning how it works, i.e. tinker with it from there.


And hey, if you need the AAE expander, I have an extra one here in my office I am willing to sell under cost. Let me know if you need any help on the programming side of things.


----------



## cabledawg

Sorry guys,Ive been sick and it seems Ive missed some good tips and ideas while I was under the weather.


newest update.Im down to a basic system as far as Crestron equipment,as the other peices werent fully functional or DOA with no return policy.


While I was sick I spent alot of time on the PC tinkering around in SIMPL,I redid the original program to add the START/STOP and SOURCE SELECTION modules.I still dont have anywhere near a full understanding but with trial and error,so far so good.


Ive posted several questions on the Yahoo Crestron Group but pretty much only get laughed at or they start off on the topic in a different direction that doesnt help me get an answer.


I have a question concerning the I/0's.Can I use an magnetic NC alarm contact to monitor a device?i.e. if my garage door is open can it send the info to a TP?


Im also interested in controlling my Sony DA7ES receiver thru rs232.Does anyone have any helpful info to lend?


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks Summittrekker,I hope we can keep this DIY thread going.


I have no knowledge of Control4 aside from what Ive read on their site and in subscriptions.


As far as Crestron,I know very little.I am however becoming more comfortable with SIMPL and VTPROe programming everyday.I still have a lot to learn of course.Being that you are just trying to control a theater room,I dont see a problem.Im currently trying to control 4 zones and Im off to a great first start.I havent tried getting into lighting control yet with the Crestron.Im still usingx10 and Insteon,altho Im thinking of buying a seriallinc so I can do lighting.Lutron and others are too expensive at the moment and being I already have the existing system Im going the cheap route for now.


Ive heard great things about the AES and its user setup/configuration as well.I could never find a viable price to purchase on tho.


----------



## cabledawg

crap! I forgot about the exterior lighting.Currently I have 2 sets of landscape lighting out front as well as 1 set in rear yard.x5 flood lights around house an 2 in rear yard.all lighting is controlled by x10/insteon currently.


----------



## Tony Golden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16608866
> 
> 
> Ive posted several questions on the Yahoo Crestron Group but pretty much only get laughed at or they start off on the topic in a different direction that doesnt help me get an answer.



I seriously doubt if that really happened, and would like to see a link to a thread where it did...


----------



## SweetSpot

I'd have to agree with Tony. I'm on the Crestron Yahoo group everyday and have not seen anyone get "laughed at" for asking legitimate questions.


----------



## cabledawg

I didnt try to link.It was the thread asking about controlling a overhead garage door.Not laughed at in this one but no answers either,people spun it off into mailbox automation,and anti-mailbox baseball security and such.never came close to an answer on my question.


I cant remember the other posted question,I think it might have been about lighting control with Insteon cross platform integration or about connecting my reef tank controller into system for monitoring,not control,


The only other question a I have asked on the site was concerning remote powering a server on/off,my idea was to tie onto the server power switch thru a digital output.Not knowing much about Crestron,this received the most laughed at response.


I have asked 4 questions on the site and havent received any returned input that wasnt criticism or jokes.I guess being that I stated I was a DIYer didnt help me,I dont fit into the 'click'.


----------



## CJO

While they do sometimes go off topic, I have rarely seen much direct criticism on the list (though constructive criticism does happen often), whether to DIY'er or professional. The response you get does seem to be directly related to how the question is phrased. I have asked quite a few questions on the list and have always gotten excellent responses. You may want to try again.


As far as the insteon stuff goes, questions regarding that have been asked several times. It seems that they have a fairly tight NDA so that the people who do have access to the protocol can't really help anyone who doesn't.


CJ


----------



## Tony Golden




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16617122
> 
> 
> I didnt try to link.It was the thread asking about controlling a overhead garage door.Not laughed at in this one but no answers either,people spun it off into mailbox automation,and anti-mailbox baseball security and such.never came close to an answer on my question.



I vaguely remember that thread, and think an answer *was* provided. However, without a specific thread or message link, it's difficult to say for sure. I do know that garage door control has been discussed many, many times on the Group, so a search of the message archives will probably return more than enough information.



> Quote:
> I cant remember the other posted question,I think it might have been about lighting control with Insteon cross platform integration or about connecting my reef tank controller into system for monitoring,not control,



I'm certain the Insteon question was answered, although as CJO mentioned, it might not have been what you wanted to hear 


You can't fault the Group for not providing the answer you expect  In regard to the reef tank controller, again as CJO mentioned, you probably didn't provide enough details.


It's also okay to ask more than once - just don't be obnoxious about it. All of the more knowledgeable guys on there do have day jobs, and don't just sit around staring at the PC, waiting for *your* question to pop-up, so they can spend valuable time researching the perfect answer, just for you. Many times a question is missed the first time around, but a second request might get several responses. This has even happened to me, more than once.



> Quote:
> The only other question a I have asked on the site was concerning remote powering a server on/off,my idea was to tie onto the server power switch thru a digital output.Not knowing much about Crestron,this received the most laughed at response.



Probably because the answer could be easily determined by reading the CNMSX and PC manuals, or doing just a little research on your own.



> Quote:
> I have asked 4 questions on the site and havent received any returned input that wasnt criticism or jokes.I guess being that I stated I was a DIYer didnt help me,I dont fit into the 'click'.



That's definitely not true. DIYer's and professionals are welcome, and one of the moderators is technically a DIYer.


Many times, DIYers don't phrase the questions well (since they don't do it for a living), don't research enough on their own before posting a question (and asking someone else to take time from their own work), or they have a sense of entitlement or arrogance that minimizes the number of responses.


----------



## David Richardson

The Crestron Board is one of the most professional forums around. I have been a member here longer than the Crestron Yahoo group, but not by much.


Please keep in mind we are pretty much all geeks over there. Some more some less. That Yahoo forum is what this forum was in the early years. Great with people bending over backwards to help each other.


Like Tony pointed out most of us have jobs so please keep that in mind.


Dave


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> I have a question concerning the I/0's.Can I use an magnetic NC alarm contact to monitor a device?i.e. if my garage door is open can it send the info to a TP?



I don't think this was answered, but, yes. The best method IMHO is to have the garage door monitored as a dedicated zone on a security system. You can maintain the status of the door (open/closed) in Crestron. A contact closure to the door's push bottom can be used to open/close the door.


----------



## stefuel

I have been a member of the Yahoo group for about 4 years. I was as green as it gets and was never made to feel like a sub-creature. One thing you need to understand about Crestron. It lends it's self to different ideas and ways to do things. There's more than one right way to do things. Just some ways are more efficient then others. That's the beauty of Crestron. Just be patient and one day it will be like someone flipped on a switch in your head.


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/16629300
> 
> 
> I don't think this was answered, but, yes. The best method IMHO is to have the garage door monitored as a dedicated zone on a security system. You can maintain the status of the door (open/closed) in Crestron. A contact closure to the door's push bottom can be used to open/close the door.



This is the way I do it as well


cheers


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks guys,Im beginning to see all of your points as there are more than one way to do things and do agree that I need to word my questions differently at the same time.Ive posted more on the group and have been getting better responses now that Im wording a bit different.Everyone has been very helpful.


I already have the garage door connected to my alarm system,however my alarm isnt connected to my Crestron system yet.I wanted to add a 2nd contact that goes directly to an versiport on the controller so I could do a AND NOR logic.


Someone stated that I could connect one of the outputs to the door button,I havent looked into this yet but have run a 2c to the motor itself.It has 2 terminals on the side and I tested them by using a jumper wire from one to the other and it opens/closes the door.Do you suggest running to the button or to the motor?


----------



## cabledawg

I almost forgot.I was doing a search on google for Crestron modules and came across this http://www.controllercodes.com/.Its a brand new site that has very reasonable prices on Crestron modules and IR codes with no discrimination on who you are,they are available for anyone to purchase I believe.


This is great for any DIYer's who are having a hard time getting IR codes or are looking for programmed modules.


I recommend checking them out.


----------



## gsr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tony Golden* /forum/post/16619083
> 
> 
> Many times a question is missed the first time around, but a second request might get several responses. This has even happened to me, more than once.



Next time that happens, we can just start deleting random members from the list to get their attention







.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tony Golden* /forum/post/16619083
> 
> 
> I'm certain the Insteon question was answered, although as CJO mentioned, it might not have been what you wanted to hear



Insteon is definitely not DIY friendly, which IMO is a foolish move on SmartHome's part given their target customer (DIYers for the most part). Their devices just aren't high-end enough to justify making the protocol locked by NDA. For example, the dimmer switches don't send their current status back so your program can figure out if they're on or off - which makes it difficult to have reliable control in some situations. If one gets a bit clever with Google, the serial protocol can be found. Once found, do not post it publicly (and don't ask me for a copy) as it is covered by NDA. I also don't find the build quality of their dimmer switches to be very good.


I've purchased some Crestron infiNet dimmers and the difference is night and day. The build quality is much higher and they provide useful feedback so your program always knows what state they're in. Programming them in SIMPL is very simple







. As a DIYer, if you buy them on ebay they really aren't that much more expensive than the Insteon dimmers and well worth the difference.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tony Golden* /forum/post/16619083
> 
> 
> That's definitely not true. DIYer's and professionals are welcome, and one of the moderators is technically a DIYer.



I resemble that remark.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/16646637
> 
> 
> I almost forgot.I was doing a search on google for Crestron modules and came across this http://www.controllercodes.com/.Its a brand new site that has very reasonable prices on Crestron modules and IR codes with no discrimination on who you are,they are available for anyone to purchase I believe.
> 
> 
> This is great for any DIYer's who are having a hard time getting IR codes or are looking for programmed modules.
> 
> 
> I recommend checking them out.



I suspect you're not going to see that site grow too fast. If you read their terms, they pocket 50% of sales







. They also don't send the money to the seller until they reach a minimum amount of money in their balance and only once a month. That doesn't strike me as a recipe for success from the standpoint of posting my own stuff there for sale. I usually post any IR drivers or modules I've created for free on the Yahoo forum and I don't want someone taking 50% of sales of my IR driver editor software when I can post it on my own site.


----------



## stefuel

You still haven't got the garage door to open yet.









Clue...

1. Relay

2. Momentary button


----------



## sic0048

Not to start a systems war on here, but for those looking at a DIY friendly automation system, I'll simply suggest that you look at Charmed Quark Systems - otherwise known as CQC . It is a professional level system that is being used by integrators across the country, but also has a DIY option (with a very attractive price - only $333 right now). There is a extemely active forum with lots of DIYers and System Integrators participating. I'm a DIYer in case you wanted to know.


It is a software based system rather than the hardware based controller like Crestron, but it is extremely stable.


Just a thought for those that know they want to do it themselves (whether out of pure desire, or as a way to lower costs, or both).


----------



## stefuel

He has made his decision. He wants to do his own Crestron system. He is aware of the learning curve but is still willing to go for it. So I guess we'll just have to keep giving him little nudges in the right direction.


----------



## Syphon Filter

If he needs help i've offered to take a look at his program and shoot ovre some pointers. He'll get there, we're all here to help out.


----------



## stefuel

Help is one thing. Doing it for him is another. If he wants to learn, he needs to take the advice and make it work. Without the benifit of training I would suggest that he start from scratch and select a simple function (one button program) and make it work. Forget about everything else until he masters that function. The simplest of which would be to close a selected relay on his Pro with a momentary button and use it to open/close he garage door. He'll think he died and went to heaven when he does that. It's the stupid little things like that, that open peoples eyes. I remember when I made my first device work. It was almost better than sex.


----------



## portmanteau

Greetings from the antipodes. I see that I need 3 posts to be able to PM, so may as well start by saying Hi in here. I think I could be spending a bit of time on this particular thread!


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/16678777
> 
> 
> I remember when I made my first device work. It was almost better than sex.



Uhhh no... lol but it did make me want to ask for a raise.


speaking of that I remember one time(a very long time ago) where I needed to control power on a VCR and it didn't have discrete codes I ended up using like 15 symbols(and about 3 hours) to make it work.. it was hilarious when the senior programmer came over and said why are you doing that trashed the whole thing and showed me a more reasonable approach in less than a minute. That's what you call back to the drawing board


----------



## electronink

Yes.


You simply produce graphics of the specific size and style that you want (or cut the graphic to the size with Pshop), and import.


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *electronink* /forum/post/17158130
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> You simply produce graphics of the specific size and style that you want (or cut the graphic to the size with Pshop), and import.



? where did this come from? the real answer is yes, but it depends on the touchpanel because some of them do not (as stated above so, i dont know why I am repeating) support png transparency so there is a feature that will let you use bitmap and jpeg and then bleed out a color (usually black is the easiest) and make it look transparent.


----------



## Blowne30M3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/17160208
> 
> 
> ? where did this come from? the real answer is yes, but it depends on the touchpanel because some of them do not (as stated above so, i dont know why I am repeating) support png transparency so there is a feature that will let you use bitmap and jpeg and then bleed out a color (usually black is the easiest) and make it look transparent.



All new (within the past year or two) Crestron touchpanels support PNG's. I haven't had to use JPEG's since the TPS-5000 years ago.


And on the matter of photoshop, layer comps and slices are your best friends.


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Blowne30M3* /forum/post/17160745
> 
> 
> All new (within the past year or two) Crestron touchpanels support PNG's. I haven't had to use JPEG's since the TPS-5000 years ago.
> 
> 
> And on the matter of photoshop, layer comps and slices are your best friends.




I know this but I think somewhere earlier in the thread someone said they were working with a tps-1700 or something like that


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/17162392
> 
> 
> I know this but I think somewhere earlier in the thread someone said they were working with a tps-1700 or something like that



I think it was an STX-1700.


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dahwoo* /forum/post/16688710
> 
> 
> Uhhh no... lol but it did make me want to ask for a raise.
> 
> 
> speaking of that I remember one time(a very long time ago) where I needed to control power on a VCR and it didn't have discrete codes I ended up using like 15 symbols(and about 3 hours) to make it work.. it was hilarious when the senior programmer came over and said why are you doing that trashed the whole thing and showed me a more reasonable approach in less than a minute. That's what you call back to the drawing board



He he he, But just the fact that you were able to think you're way through those 15 symbols and make it work is enough to make you feel like King Schit









My first home brewed module was for my own irrigation system. It must have 25 symbols in it. I know it's a mess but it works perfectly so I'm still using it.


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stefuel* /forum/post/17163456
> 
> 
> ...I know it's a mess but it works perfectly so I'm still using it.



This applies when I look back at some of my old projects!! They're a mess and a real chore to make changes too but they work and are still doing their thing years on!


----------



## stefuel




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Syphon Filter* /forum/post/17165354
> 
> 
> This applies when I look back at some of my old projects!! They're a mess and a real chore to make changes too but they work and are still doing their thing years on!



That's kind of the beauty of Crestron. I know that many will insist that there's only one way (their way) do do things, but in fact Crestron affords many ways to get things done. Some ways are just better than others.

If it's been working perfectly for many years it can't be to wrong.


----------



## Syphon Filter

You're quite right, as with all programming, there's definitely more than one way to skin a cat with a Crestron system.


The issue I have is that the first couple of systems I programmed were before I had had any formal training. I was given a few pointers by some chap who had figured out the basics for himself and then I was onto my first job, which happened to be a 17 zone, 21 touch-screen system!!! The system works for sure, the family (who I have gotten to know very well over the past 5 years) have been living in the house and using it on a daily basis to control their AV, HVAC and lighting but from a programmers point of view, especially now that I have a few years experience and much more training and a certification under my belt, it's a bit of a birds nest! Also that project was a pain and there was a real issue about site presence, as such most of it was programmed on-site whilst the place was still a building site which is not an ideal location for programming of a system!!!


Hey ho, you live and learn and as long as the system works I see no issue. My more recent work is constructed in a much more methodical manner and is much easier to manipulate "after the fact" as it were.


----------



## gamelover360

What is the simplest and most cost effective crestron solution for a one room HT room, one zone, just looking to control my AV components and the room lighting? Also would like a touchscreen wireless control panel. A lot of the crestron stuff seems complex and pricey. Thanks


----------



## Syphon Filter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gamelover360* /forum/post/17170190
> 
> 
> What is the simplest and most cost effective crestron solution for a one room HT room, one zone, just looking to control my AV components and the room lighting? Also would like a touchscreen wireless control panel. A lot of the crestron stuff seems complex and pricey. Thanks



Couple of options but it depends on what you need the system to control. What is this single zone going to consist of? How many items of HT equipment (displays, sources etc) are there that need to be controlled? Do you intend to control other things such as lighting or A/C in the room?


There are a number of solutions and while none of them are what I would consider cheap they do vary greatly in price.


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gamelover360* /forum/post/17170190
> 
> 
> What is the simplest and most cost effective crestron solution for a one room HT room, one zone, just looking to control my AV components and the room lighting? Also would like a touchscreen wireless control panel. A lot of the crestron stuff seems complex and pricey. Thanks



Assuming that this is a typical home theater/ media room with 2 display devices (TV or PJ) maximum and you already have or are willing to purchase products that have serial control or discrete IR. TPMC-8X or TPS-6X will cost you apx $8000.00 installed & programmed. This includes gateways or wi-fi gear, user interface design and control system installation.


It may cost more if you require installation of your AV hardware. The $8000 estimate i gave assumes your AV gear is installed and functioning properly.


----------



## ibdoomed




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gamelover360* /forum/post/17170190
> 
> 
> What is the simplest and most cost effective crestron solution for a one room HT room, one zone, just looking to control my AV components and the room lighting? Also would like a touchscreen wireless control panel. A lot of the crestron stuff seems complex and pricey. Thanks



I'm on the verge of doing exactly what you describe using the TPMC-3X wand remote (it has a 2.8" touchscreen). Were you thinking more of a two handed touchpanel? I was going to mate my 3X with an MC2E and do the programming myself all for under $2k. I can't speak for how much programming a system that simple would cost, I've only paid for auditoriums and larger in the past.


My Equipment:

Epson PJ

Denon AVR

HTPC

PS3

DTV


----------



## Tony Golden

Depending on the complexity of your interface, or any "special features", a system like that could be programmed in anywhere from 2 to 8 hours. That assumes it's an experienced programmer, using graphic templates they already have, or are familiar with. Custom graphics could increase sthe time required, significantly.


----------



## snowman21

im thinking of purchasing a crestron home controller off ebay does anyone have any advice on the equipment i may need for home theater control


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18384420
> 
> 
> im thinking of purchasing a crestron home controller off ebay does anyone have any advice on the equipment i may need for home theater control



You'll get plenty of advice but you should put in some details about what you are trying to achieve, like level of control(lighting, climate, none, etc..) number of zones (audio and video), If you want to use a basic looking remote, touch panel, in wall panels? You may also want to start a new thread.


----------



## snowman21

thanks for the feed back! im thinking of starting with just a home theater setup moving on to home automation in the near future. what do you think of a cmnsx-pro and a touch screen remote any suggestions.

equipment list:

pioneer elite receiver

sony 400 disc changer

sony blu-ray

htd whole house audio

panasonic projector


----------



## gsr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18384420
> 
> 
> im thinking of purchasing a crestron home controller off ebay does anyone have any advice on the equipment i may need for home theater control



If you aren't a Crestron dealer / CAIP / etc. - before you spend a dime on Crestron equipment on ebay, make sure you've figured out a way to program it as the software isn't legally available to end users. We've had more than a few people show up on the Yahoo Groups Crestron list who have gotten themselves into this unfortunate situation...


----------



## snowman21

i take it you woud'nt suggest buying crestron from ebay? im looking to break into the home automation game. i've wired the house with 2 strands of cat5 wire in every room,

put in a whole house audio system and have a home theater im looking to bring everything together with a home controller thru rs232. crestron items on ebay came to mind


----------



## gsr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18385326
> 
> 
> i take it you woud'nt suggest buying crestron from ebay? im looking to break into the home automation game. i've wired the house with 2 strands of cat5 wire in every room,
> 
> put in a whole house audio system and have a home theater im looking to bring everything together with a home controller thru rs232. crestron items on ebay came to mind



I wouldn't suggest buying Crestron equipment anywhere if you don't you have a way to program it. Without access to Crestron's software (you can't download from their web site without a login), the hardware will be completely useless to you. If you do have access to the software, you can find some great deals on ebay.


If you want to program it yourself and have no Crestron programming experience be aware that it's a lot more difficult than programming a Logitech Harmony or a Pronto.


You could always pay a dealer to program it for you, but they aren't likely to be thrilled about using hardware you bought on ebay and some dealers probably won't even take on such a job. A non-trivial part of the profit comes from selling the hardware and if they sell it to you there's no confusion over who's responsible for what if something doesn't work.


I'm not trying to scare you away - I just don't want to see you get stuck with a pile of hardware that you can't use. If you haven't done so yet, research the programming side of the equation before you buy any Crestron hardware.


----------



## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18385326
> 
> 
> i take it you woud'nt suggest buying crestron from ebay? im looking to break into the home automation game. i've wired the house with 2 strands of cat5 wire in every room,
> 
> put in a whole house audio system and have a home theater im looking to bring everything together with a home controller thru rs232. crestron items on ebay came to mind



What are the 2 strands of Cat5 for?


----------



## snowman21

i ran 2 strands of cat5 for expansion, first strand for house audio keypads, second one is for cat5 balun to video matrix switcher (yet to be purchased)

ideas for system but nothing to pull it all together. crestron control with RS-232 very good option but no programming know how


----------



## amirm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18385931
> 
> 
> i ran 2 strands of cat5 for expansion, first strand for house audio keypads, second one is for cat5 balun to video matrix switcher (yet to be purchased)
> 
> ideas for system but nothing to pull it all together. crestron control with RS-232 very good option but no programming know how



For HDMI routing, you need two cat-5 (better yet cat-6). And for Crestron version of the same, you need a cresnet for control.


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snowman21* /forum/post/18385931
> 
> 
> i ran 2 strands of cat5 for expansion, first strand for house audio keypads, second one is for cat5 balun to video matrix switcher (yet to be purchased)
> 
> ideas for system but nothing to pull it all together. crestron control with RS-232 very good option but no programming know how



I think at best what you have described is an underwired system and that you want to purchase Dated/obsolete equipment in which you've never dealt with. You are better off doing a little more research before you purchase anything. and you may want to try and run a few more cables if you are looking for "expansion". Sorry so short I'm heading out the door.


----------



## gsr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *amirm* /forum/post/18386001
> 
> 
> For HDMI routing, you need two cat-5 (better yet cat-6). And for Crestron version of the same, you need a cresnet for control.



There are some single CAT5e / CAT6 HDMI baluns. I've got one of the Laird balun pairs that I've been playing around with to connect a PC in my basement that will be serving as my DVR once the Ceton CableCard tuner ships to my home theater system. So far, it seems to be working just fine with a CAT6 cable.


But it is true that most of the current HDMI solutions require a pair of cables and a pair of CAT5 cables definitely doesn't leave much, if any, room for expansion.


----------



## cabledawg

So after over a year away from here...Im back.


First off I would like to thank everyone who participated and provided helpful input on this Crestron DIY thread,thank you all.


After many night of Mt Dew fueled programming sessions and lots of help from you guys,i managed to get a very simple and basic system up and running(CNMSX-pro/ST1550). Majority of logic is just IR.


Now I'm currently trying to upgrade to a 2 series processor and a better touchpanel and include xpanel.Im looking at either an mp2e or av2 with tpmc10 touchpanel with possibly a tps-???? as well.


so being out of SIMPL programming for a year,im having to start back at the basics and re-learn everything all over again.


----------



## Crestron_Junkie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/18974531
> 
> 
> So after over a year away from here...Im back.
> 
> 
> First off I would like to thank everyone who participated and provided helpful input on this Crestron DIY thread,thank you all.
> 
> 
> After many night of Mt Dew fueled programming sessions and lots of help from you guys,i managed to get a very simple and basic system up and running(CNMSX-pro/ST1550). Majority of logic is just IR.
> 
> 
> Now I'm currently trying to upgrade to a 2 series processor and a better touchpanel and include xpanel.Im looking at either an mp2e or av2 with tpmc10 touchpanel with possibly a tps-???? as well.
> 
> 
> so being out of SIMPL programming for a year,im having to start back at the basics and re-learn everything all over again.



I say pass over the tpmc-10. I've never heard of a high customer satisfaction with it. Unless you need the big size, I say look for a 4x or 4xG. You might spend a little bit more, but its a much better remote IMO.


For your system, an AV2 would probably be overkill. It's basically a Pro2 without the front panel, and its designed for many different subsystems working together. An MP2e or CP2e would give you Xpanel control and cost a bit less.


If you need any programming help, feel free to PM me. I can't say i'm the most advanced-level programmer here, but i'd be happy to take a look at your program or answer any questions to help you get back into the SIMPL game.


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks for the input on the TPMC, I do like the size and the prices on ebay are within range(under $500 for most)


I was thinking on the av2 that it would be overkill but i would rather pay an extra 400 or so and have it in place if I ever get carried away with control.


I was reading through a SIMPL PDF guide to refresh and noticed something.'equipment crosspoint routing'. I looked in my logic folder and its not there, even the 'signal routing' subfolder that its supposed to be in isnt there.anyone have any ideas why im missing this folder?


----------



## petemcn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/18974531
> 
> 
> So after over a year away from here...Im back.
> 
> 
> First off I would like to thank everyone who participated and provided helpful input on this Crestron DIY thread,thank you all.
> 
> 
> After many night of Mt Dew fueled programming sessions and lots of help from you guys,i managed to get a very simple and basic system up and running(CNMSX-pro/ST1550). Majority of logic is just IR.
> 
> 
> Now I'm currently trying to upgrade to a 2 series processor and a better touchpanel and include xpanel.Im looking at either an mp2e or av2 with tpmc10 touchpanel with possibly a tps-???? as well.
> 
> 
> so being out of SIMPL programming for a year,im having to start back at the basics and re-learn everything all over again.



I've also been playing around with simple IR programming in Simpl. My issue is a lack of time to take it to the next step. I do hope to purchase a better controller than the ML-600 I've been playing with. I can't decide if I should go with a TPMC 3x, 4x, 8x or a TPS-6x. The 3x and 6x are the lowest markdowns (since they are typically only sold new) but it also seems like an 8x would be a much bigger endeavor than the 4x. What other touchpanel/remotes do people around here recommend (preferably older ones which can be purchased cheaply used)?


Also, thank you to all the programmers around here and on the Yahoo Group (I'm sure some people here answer questions there). There is so much great information which lets me know that if I ever can invest the time to take it to the next step, I certainly can do that.


----------



## SweetSpot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/18978902
> 
> 
> I was thinking on the av2 that it would be overkill but i would rather pay an extra 400 or so and have it in place if I ever get carried away with control.



If you end up going with an AV2 (or PRO2) just remember that an ethernet card (C2ENET-1, C2ENET-2) is not included and must be purchased separately at additional cost.



> Quote:
> I was reading through a SIMPL PDF guide to refresh and noticed something.'equipment crosspoint routing'. I looked in my logic folder and its not there, even the 'signal routing' subfolder that its supposed to be in isnt there.anyone have any ideas why im missing this folder?



Goto _Options_>>_Preferences_>>_Program Editing_ and select 'Special' under 'Symbol Set.'


----------



## cabledawg

Thanks guys,i was able to get to the crosspoint logic finally with both your help.


I have seen several AV2's with the 1net going for as low as $850 and most under $1100 so I wouldnt mind spending a little more on it than trying to replace a mp2e or cp2e later.unless i win the lottery,i would never need more than an av2.if i did,i would be able to afford a top of the line system anyway







.


* on a side not * my programming involves the use of modules created by other programmers so any upload of my program will not include those modules out of respect for their developers.


----------



## weddellkw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/18978902
> 
> 
> I was reading through a SIMPL PDF guide to refresh and noticed something.'equipment crosspoint routing'. I looked in my logic folder and its not there, even the 'signal routing' subfolder that its supposed to be in isnt there.anyone have any ideas why im missing this folder?



Unless you are utilizing a large number of rooms/devices/interfaces you can probably save yourself a lot of time/headache by largely ignoring crosspoint routing...in a small/basic system you're generally better off using buffers/interlocks to accomplish the same thing.


Better off may not be the right words. It is just simpler.


----------



## cabledawg

I am building my house as a homeowner contractor(with help of friends in different trades) and saving thousands,its just a slow process.I just had the footing poured last week so it is just underway.


It will be a moderately sized house(3225sf) and with systems to match.I am wanting to implement an AV2 as it will handle majority of systems without a hitch.If it comes down to it I can always slave another processor to it.


At some point I would like to have all systems under Crestron control or at least monitored by it to some extent.You will see in the program attached my system/sub-system folder tree.I did the tree and folders first so I start organized.Before anyone gets worried about the 'fire alarm' folder I want to point out that Crestron will not be controlling it,I have a Silent Knight panel for this.I just want to maybe include monitoring/annunciation/equipment shutdown.


I have a grid-tie solar system to be installed and at some point i would like to have touchpanels to be able to display status/condition.I just did research on Crestrons Greenlight system and it seems like a viable option to add at some point.I still need to research more 3rd party modules that might be able to provide status indication to the Crestron system.


I know it might seem like a lot for a DIYer but I have the time and desire to get it done, with the help of experienced programmer's/designers her of course.


Mark

 

new av2 7.29.10.zip 6.341796875k . file


----------



## Leifashley27




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am building my house as a homeowner contractor(with help of friends in different trades) and saving thousands,its just a slow process.I just had the footing poured last week so it is just underway.
> 
> 
> It will be a moderately sized house(3225sf) and with systems to match.I am wanting to implement an AV2 as it will handle majority of systems without a hitch.If it comes down to it I can always slave another processor to it.
> 
> 
> At some point I would like to have all systems under Crestron control or at least monitored by it to some extent.You will see in the program attached my system/sub-system folder tree.I did the tree and folders first so I start organized.Before anyone gets worried about the 'fire alarm' folder I want to point out that Crestron will not be controlling it,I have a Silent Knight panel for this.I just want to maybe include monitoring/annunciation/equipment shutdown.
> 
> 
> I have a grid-tie solar system to be installed and at some point i would like to have touchpanels to be able to display status/condition.I just did research on Crestrons Greenlight system and it seems like a viable option to add at some point.I still need to research more 3rd party modules that might be able to provide status indication to the Crestron system.
> 
> 
> I know it might seem like a lot for a DIYer but I have the time and desire to get it done, with the help of experienced programmer's/designers her of course.
> 
> 
> Mark



The av2 is a good choice. I started out with a cp2e but am now upgrading to an AV2 as once you start implementing mobile pro devices you can run out of memory pretty quickly. I've got my room almost done DIY with a cp2e controlling a few devices over rs232 and ir, a tstat, and a c6 rf lighting controller. I need the additional memory to get into the rest of the house.


----------



## Dahwoo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/18979781
> 
> 
> Thanks guys,i was able to get to the crosspoint logic finally with both your help.
> 
> 
> I have seen several AV2's with the 1net going for as low as $850 and most under $1100 so I wouldnt mind spending a little more on it than trying to replace a mp2e or cp2e later.unless i win the lottery,i would never need more than an av2.if i did,i would be able to afford a top of the line system anyway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



I'm pretty sure that you're house/system would not need anything more than a CP2e. it's just as good as a Pro2 ESPECIALLY if your system isn't large and out of control. Plus its a very sleek 1U unit.


**More importantly since they will be coming out with a Pro3 by the time you'll want to upgrade you might as well save the money. However someone mentioned the mobile pro and it is a good point but if your project is simple enough you would be fine as far memory is concerned.. really depends on the level in which you are approaching this.


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## cabledawg

Thanks everyone.I would just hate to purchase a cp2e/mp2e and then need to upgrade later. A Pro3 sounds nice,cant wait to see the tech/spec's on that but would be out of my price range more than likely.I really think the AV2 is a great starting point,and I can add a cp2e later if needed but hopefully it wont come to that.Im planning on the AV2 with a net card running me $950-$1100.I dont have a 'budget' as of yet.My money is going primarily into the construction of the house.Whatever is left will be put towards electronics,furniture and misc.


Im working on the program here and there in what little 'spare' time I have.Im trying to program everything ahead of time and Im just commenting out what will not be utilised at the start.


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## Tony Golden

You can probably get a PRO2 for that amount, but I definitely recommend at least an AV2. The memory card slot alone makes it worth it.


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## stefuel

I would guess that when the 3 series stuff hits the street, the price of used 2 series stuff should drop considerably. At least that's what I'm hoping for.


I need to upgrade from my old straight Pro to a Pro2. There is other 2 series stuff and modules that I would like to use so the time is near.


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## cabledawg

Tony,I have seen Pro2's at that range but not with a Net card(which is another $400 for a Net1).I dont require the front panel display/control so an AV2 seems good.

Hopefully by the time my house is ready(looking like 12-14mos) the prices will come down and I can afford to buy more devices.


I took a break from the program last night as I was getting frustrated and didnt want to make any mistakes.Having not been in SIMPL in over a year I kinda lost the basics.


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## cabledawg

Hello all,Im back.


I know its been almost a year since my last post and Im not doing a 'bump' for giggles. I had several speed bumps during this time and didnt have the time nor finances to continue with this project. I have received several emails from members who wish to try their hands at DIYing a Crestron system so Im hoping to bring this thread to life again. I also feel bad that I didnt follow this through to completion and disappeared but as I stated had had some things going on in my life.



*** Just to clarify what I stated earlier, I will not send software to anyone asking. I do feel that it shouldnt be an issue as it would in no way comprimise the Certified Programmers community.Anyone DIYing a Crestron system wouldnt be paying thousands of dollars for NEW equipment or programming to begin with.But I do not wish to burn any bridges with those who have helped me.***


*** I have no problem attaching programs I have done,however I will not post the final program as it contains modules created by Certified Programmers and I will not put their hard work where anyone can use***


I have been spending the last few hours reading this thread from the beginning to catch up and decide how to proceed.


I would first like to sincerely thank several members here who have contributed to this thread and provided great assistance---Stefuel,Tony Golden,Spisnic,dahwoo and several others.forgive me if I left your name out but it wont let me view previous pages without losing the message current.


As I stated in the emails and PM's I just sent out,I am sincerely sorry for not answering them sooner but promise to follow through from now on.


I have sold all Crestron equipment that I had in order to help with purchasing more up to date equipment. With the release of Prodigy,prices of 2series equipment is coming down some and by the time Im ready they should be at a right price for me. Im wanting an AV2 or Pro2 and getting one for under $1000 shouldnt be an issue.Im also needing to purchase new touchpanels and will at least start off with a TPMC-10 along with Xpanel.TPMC-10's are going for $300-$500 and will work as a start for me. Im still trying to figure out my audio/video switching options as the Crestron units are still well over $1000.


As for the programming Im thinking of taking a different approach than I did last time. I am going to lay out my Logic folders in a way that "I" can navigate and understand better. Im also going to do the folders for the house I hope to be in in the future and will just comment out the rooms/zones/devices that will not be used in my current rental.The new programming will exclude the modules used in the previous program so I can attach it in its entirety without other Programmers modules that they charge for.


I do have to locate my Crestron CDs to reinstall the software and the programs I did.


Once again Im sorry to those I let down and many thanks to those who have helped and gone out of their way with this thread.


Mark


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## cabledawg

Here is one of the first programs I did. Its pretty messy and not fluid at all but It was the beginning of my 'learning' programs. You can critique it if you wish,I already know its a POS but I didnt know much back then,not that I know a whole bunch now LOL

 

6-2-09_2am.zip 18.1787109375k . file


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## Blowne30M3

Not really sure what we are supposed to be looking at with that program. It's a bunch of unfinished sub-folders and blank buffers. It doesn't even compile.


It's impossible to give you any feedback on that because nothing is done. If anything I would say take a class after looking at something like that.


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## cabledawg

Sorry, I thought it was one of the completed programs I did in the beginning,I dont have SIMPL installed on my laptop at the moment so I cant verify the programs. It wasnt meant to be put up for correction as it was put up for the DIYers who obtained the software to view. Ive had requests for direction and to view my program(both of which I dont really have a clue of the merit) but some wanted at least something to look at.I have never seen someones program online and I understand why(created modules $$$) and I wish that in the beginning I could have at least viewed one or a couple. You cant find a program anywhere and I intend to help by posting mine(yes,some of which are unfinished or unnecessary).


All you DIYers should have a look at these PDF's, 'SIMPL Primer' and 'crestron programming cookbook',both available online with a Google search.The first will give you some basics on logic and symbols and show how they can be used( yes,it includes pictures/diagrams).I dont remember the second too well so I will have to download and view again.


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## cabledawg

So I havent heard back from my reply's to PM's and emails I sent yesterday but Im going to try and start things forward.


I have found my installers and old programs and such so Im going to start fresh in hopes of helping as best I can with others trying to DIy as well.


- download the PDF's I suggested earlier and see if its something your ready to get headaches over( good supply of Aleve helps) READ,READ,READ and then READ some more.Take note of logic signals and uses.There isnt a "Crestron for Dummies" book yet and probably never will be.


- Acquire the software(this will be the hardest hurdle aside from the programming)You will need at minimum SIMPL,VtPro-e as well as the databases.


- itemize your current equipment(TVs,DVD's,CD's receivers etc.) decide what will be installed where and accessed by location.Depending on your infrastructure distribution,you may want the CD player to be able to be controlled from multiple rooms or just the living room.Your wiring will play a part in what can be done as well.Dont forget your wiring for the Crestron equipment as well.I didnt use the Crestron brand but something similar at a lower cost.


-Once you have everything laid out on paper and your structured wiring/Crestron wiring in place. Research what Crestron equipment you will need.PLEASE research, I didnt and ended up with equipment that was truly outdated or I couldnt use and a wasted money.Ebay and forums are the best sources for used equipment at decent prices.You can get a decent controller for $200-$1000(dependent processing power required) and a touchpanel for $200-$800.I suggest a 2 series controller with ethernet but some can get by with the older CNMSX units.


-my very first program was simple as it could be.All I did was take the signals from the touchpanel straight over into the IR symbol and viola I now had a simple touchpanel remote system I paid around $500.This is in no way a end all cure for the Crestron blues(unless just want your friends to be envious and let them see the Crestron logo). After the first program I started playing around a bit(and making mistake after mistake) trying to expand its capability.Let me tell you the first time I saw someones program my jaw dropped and I started to cry.It was a Pro2 with 5 TP's(touchpanels) and it controlled lighting,irrigation and HVAC and had roughly 13 rooms/zones, it also had a 'slave' processor to absorb some of the processing burden.


-- Im in the process of acquiring newer equipment but Im going to stretch my neck out and start to program based on what I hope to end up with.I am also going to layout the program as I want it to be with my final house so it will look a bit much( I will comment out the equipment/zones not being used right away) for instance my program includes a 'game room' that has 4 tvs.I am currently renting a 3/2 house and there is no game room.


I am going to try and post screen pics here and there if I can figure how to so other DIYers can understand better visually.


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## Blowne30M3

First off, I need to point out something.


Without being a licensed Crestron programmer or dealer, you will not have access to software updates, modules, or tech support.


There is no such thing as a DIY Crestron programmer because the software is not available to unlicensed people. If you do happen to have copies of it, it is because someone broke the rules.


Secondly, any of the new gear you want to get will require new firmware or may in the future to fix potential bugs or glitches. You will not have access to this stuff either.


Hell, your databases probably don't even contain the new equipment in the first place. May want to check on that before you begin. This is why we pay money to be Crestron dealers and programmers.


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## cabledawg

Actually when I had the software installed last time(under a year ago) the software updated automatically. I cant locate the installers I used last time(all software) but Im currently using SIMPL,VTPROe and DEAL but they are not updating like the last versions I used.


I understand about the firmware not being able to be updated,but I hope that I will have a workaround for that if the time comes.


Heres my view on Crestron DIY. Yes,I understand that you and others go to school/training for programming either by paying or under a CAIP/Blue I assume.You spend the time and and money as you want to program Crestron as a living so you are entitled to the nice pay rate as well as having access to support.I dont knock you guys and I am actually envious as well.


I have been in the low voltage field ever since I installed an old alarm(Moose Z1100) in my fort at age 11. I have been a subscriber to many magazines since I was 13. I have always wanted Crestron ever since I saw the first ad but it has always been unattainable as pricing/programming for even a 'light' system would be several thousand dollars and most likely tens of thousands.


If taking the entry level course in Pa? was financially viable I would. I have no intention of ever being a programmer as a trade, I just want a nice system that I have dreamed of for over two decades. I have come to realize that others do as well.


The subject of Crestron DIY has always been a sore subject and probably will remain that way. I dont see why I need to spend an outrageous amount of money(Only way would be the lottery but even then I would still want to give it a go myself first) to have the ultimate in HA. Luckily there are programmers and enthusiasts who are willing to help and give a little advice.


In no way is the DIY taking away from Certified programmers/Installers.Those who want to try would never be able to afford professional installs anyway.


I dont want to burn any bridges or piss off a whole community of people therefore I do tread lightly. I try and research things myself,I will not post the software,nor will I post modules or certain parts of programs by others. I will post anything I have done as well as try and help others who are doing the same,Im still really green and I am thankful that others are willing to step up and help out. I do ask questions(some redundant do to my lack of knowledge), I dont expect answers however when the are given I am sincerely greatfull and give respect do.


I have received enormous help from members here and on Yahoo group as well as some local sympathizers here in Central Florida as well as Germany.


Mark


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## cabledawg

..and by the way you are correct. I do not have any Prodigy in databases but I can if I ask , but will not do prodigy anytime soon so no big complaint here.


And I hope to have above 'end user' access to crestron.com soon.


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## cabledawg

Gkornato,thepainter,YaboTech, Here is my folder organization. Please note that I wont be delving into the lighting,HVAC,security,irrigation or energy systems yet. I will concentrate on the zones,touchpanels,sources and general control.


Im having enough problems/headaches with the basics that I am nowhere close to getting into the other systems yet.


Just to note that this program will be setup for my log cabin being built in NC so I will comment out the system in parts as they do not pertain to my current house being leased in Orlando.


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## cabledawg

Here are the 'Zones' and 'Sources' folders expanded. I havent labeled the sources yet as I am still on the fence about which way Im going on a couple of devices.


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## total control

yikes, your database is ancient









close to 2 years...


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## cabledawg

unfortunately it is what it is.all the programs I wrote for my old cnmsx-av and then the cnmsx-pro without any hitches,but hopefully i wont run into any problems with a new AV2.


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## ktrdsl23

I am also a Crestron DIY. Earlier you said, "If taking the entry level course in Pa? was financially viable I would." Does this mean if you take the course you are allowed access to the software? I am up-to-date through the end of Live Update. I don't have access to Master Installer or any of the newest versions of the software. It hasn't been an issue for me yet as all of my software is older, but I could see years down the road it being problem. Firmware updates haven't been a problem as of yet as I can do them all through Toolbox and Toolbox does seem to download the newest firmwares. Granted every time I do it I have to hold my breath.


If I were willing to pay for some courses (no idea how expensive they are) would I be able to obtain access to the software? I would be willing to sign any forms prohibiting redistribution. I have no interest in selling products or services, just like others enjoy HA and have been able to handle my own basic system through the advice of people in the groups and forums.


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## cabledawg

Heres what I received back from the CAIP email I sent.


"Hello,

Our training program and software are only available to Crestron authorized dealers and partners. If you are interested in attending our classes but are not an authorized dealer or partner, you will need to be sponsored by one and have a minimum of 2 years audio/visual industry experience. Each Class is 1000.00 each.


Once you have completed the training you will need to pass certification, please contact me so can proceed with the CAIP process.


If you have any further questions on the training process please contact Randy Surovy at [email protected] "


I assume that if you enroll in the class you would receive the software, however in order for the updates I also assume that you will have to pass the class in order to become a certified partner,hence allowing you to have an access to their site beyond 'user level'. Im not 100% sure of this so I hope someone else can chime in.


I have the ability to call in a favor and get sponsored by a partner in California,I have over 14yrs in the LV industry so that covers the 2yrs minimum requirement. I could possibly find $1000 to spend on enrollment,however I dont have the time/finances to travel out of state for a week and get a hotel room. I hear the food is pretty good and is part of the enrollment so that saves just a tad bit of money.




Thank you,


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## weddellkw

They definitely treat you right while you're at class.


I know that, as a Dealer, we're told to have the latest versions of all software installed before showing up to class. No idea if they'll give you access to the servers/FTP/etc necessary just for enrolling, I would definitely clarify before shelling out.


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## thepainter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Heres what I received back from the CAIP email I sent.
> 
> 
> "Hello,
> 
> Our training program and software are only available to Crestron authorized dealers and partners. If you are interested in attending our classes but are not an authorized dealer or partner, you will need to be sponsored by one and have a minimum of 2 years audio/visual industry experience. Each Class is 1000.00 each.
> 
> 
> Once you have completed the training you will need to pass certification, please contact me so can proceed with the CAIP process.
> 
> 
> If you have any further questions on the training process please contact Randy Surovy at [email protected] "
> 
> 
> I assume that if you enroll in the class you would receive the software, however in order for the updates I also assume that you will have to pass the class in order to become a certified partner,hence allowing you to have an access to their site beyond 'user level'. Im not 100% sure of this so I hope someone else can chime in.
> 
> 
> I have the ability to call in a favor and get sponsored by a partner in California,I have over 14yrs in the LV industry so that covers the 2yrs minimum requirement. I could possibly find $1000 to spend on enrollment,however I dont have the time/finances to travel out of state for a week and get a hotel room. I hear the food is pretty good and is part of the enrollment so that saves just a tad bit of money.
> 
> 
> Thank you,



Cabledawg be careful if you take the course you might get brain washed and come out saying you refuse to help anyone, and only authorized dealers should use/program Crestron equipment. DIY'ers are looking to take food from your mouth and are the scum of the earth not capable of figuring out how to get it to work........ Be careful.


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## cabledawg

I would never turn into one of those people.Ive always been a helper/guider. whenever im in lowes or home depot i always manage to work my way over to the low voltage aisle and there is usually some one there holding several items the store clerk has instructed them to buy and are completely unecessary.I always lend my opinion and 9/10 get a handshake and a sincere thank you which makes me feel good inside.


i would only take the essentials course to help me have my own system and help those who want the same possibly.


I recently remodeled my house. I added 1400sf and updated my wiring.I do 90% of the work myself and saved over $18k in labor by doing so. A local AV company wanted $5600 to do my structured wiring, I did the same work,plus a few add-ons for under $1300. I saved $4200 by installing the metal roof myself.I saved $2500 by doing my own electrical( had to hire a contractor to tie in to panel).I saved $1700 by running my own a/c duct work. everything I did passed on the first inspection except for the framing i did,I had to add several hurricane straps in a few places.


DIY field will always be around and yes,some who do try it,shouldnt of course but for the most people like me will help to keep it thriving.


...and just to add,I just purchased an AV2,Pad8a and several DIM's and Sw's for my upgrade.so far doing it myself hands on and from some of you I am getting more comfortable with the programming.


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## Neurorad

Crestron's business model has been working remarkably well, for Crestron, the past 10 or so years. If anyone can propose a system that will allow for DIYing, and continue to support the pro programmers, let's hear it.


I think the A+ Partners program is meant to be a step in that direction.


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## 39CentStamp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thepainter* /forum/post/20588009
> 
> 
> DIY'ers are looking to take food from your mouth and are the scum of the earth not capable of figuring out how to get it to work........ Be careful.



I have run into this with painters, mechanics, car audio guys, sign makers, and even brain surgeons.


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## thepainter




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cabledawg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would never turn into one of those people.Ive always been a helper/guider. whenever im in lowes or home depot i always manage to work my way over to the low voltage aisle and there is usually some one there holding several items the store clerk has instructed them to buy and are completely unecessary.I always lend my opinion and 9/10 get a handshake and a sincere thank you which makes me feel good inside.
> 
> 
> i would only take the essentials course to help me have my own system and help those who want the same possibly.
> 
> 
> I recently remodeled my house. I added 1400sf and updated my wiring.I do 90% of the work myself and saved over $18k in labor by doing so. A local AV company wanted $5600 to do my structured wiring, I did the same work,plus a few add-ons for under $1300. I saved $4200 by installing the metal roof myself.I saved $2500 by doing my own electrical( had to hire a contractor to tie in to panel).I saved $1700 by running my own a/c duct work. everything I did passed on the first inspection except for the framing i did,I had to add several hurricane straps in a few places.
> 
> 
> DIY field will always be around and yes,some who do try it,shouldnt of course but for the most people like me will help to keep it thriving.
> 
> 
> ...and just to add,I just purchased an AV2,Pad8a and several DIM's and Sw's for my upgrade.so far doing it myself hands on and from some of you I am getting more comfortable with the programming.



Proud of you cabledawg, keep up the good work. I look forward to your posts.


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## danhawk911

What part of fl do you live in? I might know of a local person who might make the drive to you


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