# Sticky  HDMI over Cat5e problems and solutions, read before posting



## audiodane


*Welcome to the HDMI Extension Discussion Thread!*

This thread exists to serve several devious purposes:
document which combinations of equipment work great/okay/poorly
civilly discuss the nature and technology of HDMI extenders

 

*Public Service Reminders*

In my personal experience with all that this thread has had to offer, the most important lessons learned are as follows:
Most all extenders will work at 1080i60 and many also at 1080p24 without issue. If anyone is planning on running only 1080p24, 1080i, 720i/p, or less, then they shouldn't stress and instead just go try any of the LESS expensive extenders first.
1080p60 is a much different beast with *double* (or more) the data rate for full 1080p60 than other formats (1080i, 1080p24, 720p, etc). Doubling the data rate for full 1080p60 is a pretty daunting task and is where most extenders differentiate themselves or flat out fall apart.
All the wireless extenders that I have researched (as of mid 2011) add compression. Whether or not the compression will bother the viewer, of course, can only be decided by the viewer. My recommendation is to always buy-and-try (whether wired or wireless), but *make sure you have a good return policy*, covering even if you simply and SUBJECTIVELY do not like it. Many retailers will only *exchange* and *only* in the case of a faulty unit. Others charge obscene "restocking" fees. Still others make you pay for shipping both ways and only refund the pre-shipping purchase price. Don't expect a full refund plus shipping charges both ways- few offer such generous policies. But be aware of what you WILL be charged should you not like your choice or it not work out as you hoped.

*Keep in mind also that these are all generalities and the internet phrase "YMMV" (your mileage may vary) applies greatly to this entire thread!*

 

*"Try This First" Tips and Tricks*

There are a few things to try first; include results of these tests in your posts to let people know what you've already tried (and how each went). If some tricks kind-of work, let folks know that. All of this information will be useful to those trying to help you solve your HDMI extension problems. *Good Luck!*

 
Try turning off your "bandwidth increasers--" deep color, 3D, etc.  If the link is unstable because you're pushing too much water through the proverbial pipe, then reducing the flow can help.

 
Try to go down a resolution notch or two..  try 1080i, try 720p, even try 480p. There is always a chance that the adapter is DOA (dead on arrival). Rare, but it happens.  Likewise, there is a chance that the adapter simply doesn't work with your source hardware.  Some boxes require HDCP that the source (like a PC) might not provide. Other adapters don't support HDCP that the far-end display requires.

 
Try a short pre-made patch cable.  DIY terminations can and have been causes of some people's problems in the past.  If you have a 6' premade Cat5e or Cat6 patch cable, try it first.  Caveat to that statement is that some extenders are expecting to run over a longer distance and sometimes "overdrive" the cable on the signal, meaning that if you use a short patch cable, it may overdrive the receiver and not work, where a longer cable would. (After all, if you have a short run between adapters, why use the adapters in the first place?) Along those lines, if you have access to long pre-made patch cables (50' or more), try it too.  Even if you only need 15', if a 50' cable works, find a place to coil up the remaining 35' and just leave it!

 
Try other sources. You're PS3 is having problems? What about a Bluray player? DVR? DVD player with HDMI out? AVR?

 

*Which is better- HDMI or Component Video?*

Let's be clear here with a few things:
As far as physics go, triple run RG6 for Component Video (5x run if you also want L/R stereo sound with each wire on its own RCA connector) *beats the pants off HDMI*
RG6 / RG6QS can carry a much higher bandwidth signal, much farther, with much less loss (or skew). It's not RG6 that's the problem, it's the industry and the content producers. In short, it's *content protection* that is the problem.
Content producers lobbied hard (and quite successfully) for TV equipment makers to restrict component video inputs and outputs to 1080i60, and in many cases, even less than 1080i. So even if you WANT to run component video- often you can't. At least, not a full 1080p signal.
HDMI does work well- when it works. But it was never designed to span long distances, or chain through a dozen different devices. It supports 1080p60 and higher, with embedded audio, CEC, audio-return, Ethernet, and said content protection, all in ONE multi-conductor cable. *For what it is, it's a remarkable creation!* But for what it is, it's also wrought with problems from implementation differences (interoperability problems between devices from different manufacturers) to signal glitches over longer runs, to strange, unexpected random problems when a cable starts going bad. It's technology at it's peak- remarkable when working properly; a nightmare when it's not.

So that leaves the unassuming user at a crossroads. 1080i over component video is rock solid all the time and even at absurdly long lengths-- but it's only 1080i. HDMI cables are markedly more feature-rich and much more convenient, with limitations in connector rigidity (bend/tug/weight stress on HDMI connectors generally decreases reliability life) and overall length.


HDMI extenders are trying to bridge the gap. From all we've seen in this unscientific thread, solution "A" will work absolute wonders for some users and be abysmal for other users. solution "B" will be the opposite. It does not look yet like any one single solution is a true "problem solver for everyone."


New HDbaseT solutions are beginning to hit the market. It will be interesting to see how they fare.

 

*Please read this paragraph before posting*

The bottom of this first post documents the combinations reporting to this thread as of the last-edited-date. Whether you are just beginning to search for an HDMI extender, or if you're ready to throw your Wii remote at your Plasma because nothing is working, check out the list below to see if there is a combination already tried that may be similar to your setup.*No matter what you do -- please contribute to this thread!* What worked well, what worked poorly, and everything else in between. If you don't know whether or not your cable is Cat5, 5e, 6, 6, shielded, termination style, etc-- don't worry. Give us the information you have and we'll go from there.


For the list, scroll down to "*Products that are being used in this thread and their success*"


Good luck!

..dane

 

*Original Thread Post*


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane on 25 Aug 2010* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm ASSUMING that this is related to power glitches, but I wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this and could give me some other things to look into...
> 
> 
> When the air conditioner kicks on OR off, video on my panasonic tc-p50g10 blanks out for a moment, then recovers. When A/C kicks on, the blank lasts a little longer and has to renegotiate HDMI.. When the A/C shuts off, the video blinks but doesn't have the delays associated with renegotiation.
> 
> 
> I am assuming that this is causing powerline glitches, and that it's not some sort of EMI issue. I was EXTREMELY careful when building this new family room though-- it has its own dedicated 30A circuit with nothing else on it besides my A/V equipment (no lights, dimmers, fans, etc)... I also took care to run the power and A/V cables away from each other, and also isolated from OTHER circuits around the house. This circuit goes up and across the ceiling rather than "around the room" through the studs like all the other outlets.
> 
> 
> I don't seem to recall it happening before I got my DVDO Edge video processor, but then again I wasn't running HDMI exclusively before the Edge. HDMI was only for bluray before the Edge was put in place.. I have since added a high def Tivo that has HDMI out, so that is another option to try (in case the Edge might be more/overly sensitive to power glitches than everything else in the system). To be clear though, it was already happening before the new Tivo came along, so I know it's not the Tivo.
> 
> 
> I am borrowing two UPS's from the office tonight and am going to plug in all A/V equipment to them (TV in one, A/V rack in the other) and see if it still happens. But aside from that-- are there any other things I should look for? Are there any small yet useful tools that can be had inexpensively to measure such "glitches" on the A/V power circuit?
> 
> 
> thanks!!
> 
> ..dane


 

*First Thread Update*


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane on 17 Nov 2010* /forum/post/0
> 
> ( extracted from thread reply #84 )
> 
> 
> Well I'm pleased to say that I have been testing out a single-CatX extender (as opposed on the dual-CatX extender that a I have been using) for the past week or so and my problems seem to have vanished. Still using the same Cat5e self-terminated cable (just one instead of two). I don't want to be too premature, but so far I have yet to see any glitching occur--- even when I flip the ceiling fan switch like a mad-man (fast, repeatedly, one-shot, super-slow to hear the arc'ing inside the switch, etc).
> 
> 
> I don't know how these single-CatX adapters work (yet, tee hee hee), but if this unit is any indication of the single- vs dual-catX technology, then I'd recommend folks start looking into the single-CatX solutions. Until I saw beemer533's post above about a single-CatX extender for $95, I wasn't sure of any single-CatX extenders out there that hit the same price-point as the (lower-cost) dual-CatX extenders. I would very much be interested in trying out the $95 PI single-CatX extender but at this point I have a solution and I'd just as soon leave it well-enough-alone!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am now using one of these:
> XTENDEX® ST-C5HDMI-150
> 
> 
> It is truly "plug and play." --- But to be fair, the Arkview extender was truly "plug and play" as well, but just had this debilitating vulnerability to AC motor on/off cycling --- This unit however (*so far!*) does not seem to have the same vulnerability, and I also like that I can plug in the AC wall adapter for the pair at the source end rather than forced to plug in power at the destination end (the Arkview extender). All that's now plugged into the power strip at the far end now is the TV, and I'd rather keep it that way...
> 
> 
> Good luck to EVERYONE else experiencing this problem. With as many views as this thread has received to-date, it is clear there is a problem out there that is not yet well enough understood to fix it once-and-for-all.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane


 

*Latest Thread Update

Products that are being used in this thread and their success*

last updated 10 May 2013
user: audiodane

try #1

- Source-end: DVDO Edge Video Processor

- CatX Adapter: Arkview HDMI-EXTC HDMI Extender (Amazon,


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## airscapes

Can you try a component cable from your source bypassing everything else directly to the display and see if you still loss the picture.... If no, then use HDMI from a source direct to the display and see what happens.. then add your components back in one at a time. Standard trouble shooting, process of elimination.

Good luck and let us know what happens.


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## mbec

You should be able to find an Electrical Contractor locally who can bring out a meter that measures power quality over time and generates a report.


I'd start with making certain all terminations in the load center, A/C disconnect, and equipment branch circuit are installed securely, and that the branch circuit supplying the A/C is sized per NFPA70 310.16 at 75 degrees.


If the above checks out, I think you may have a processor that is very sensitive to voltage fluctuation. If that is the case, installing a drive or slow start on the A/C and/or using a voltage regulator for the equipment rack may be your solution.


Good luck and let us know how it pans out.



Rob


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## audiodane

It looks at first glance to be mainly DVDO Edge related. If I take the DVDO out of the chain the problem seems to all but go away. Unfortunately the newer DVDO Edge (as compared to their older VP series) uses an internal power supply, so I'm not sure what I can do to improve it short of opening up the box and adding caps to the DC voltage rails..










any ideas?

..dane


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## Enitime




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19157927
> 
> 
> I am borrowing two UPS's from the office tonight and am going to plug in all A/V equipment to them...
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the newer DVDO Edge (as compared to their older VP series) uses an internal power supply, so I'm not sure what I can do to improve it short of opening up the box and adding caps to the DC voltage rails..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> ..dane



The UPS solution seems much simpler than adding smoothing caps to existing power supplies and cheaper than fixing house electrics. It wouldn't need a lot of capacity so it wouldn't cost much, and has other advantages as well.


Is there a reason you don't want one?


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## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Enitime* /forum/post/19160658
> 
> 
> The UPS solution seems much simpler than adding smoothing caps to existing power supplies and cheaper than fixing house electrics. It wouldn't need a lot of capacity so it wouldn't cost much, and has other advantages as well.
> 
> 
> Is there a reason you don't want one?



Pretty simple really, it didn't fix the problem. I have nothing against a UPS, and it'd be nice to have one on the Tivo anyway. But I'm mainly trying to figure out when the HDMI feed is blanking out when the A/C cuts on or off, or when I turn the ceiling fan in the room on/off.


That's my primary concern, and the UPS didn't help. Taking the Edge out all but fixed it. The blanking is but a mere 1/4 of a second or so without the Edge (Tivo S3 -> TV [hdmi]). Add the Edge back in and we're back to 1-3 seconds blankout.










..dane


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## frank1940




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19160754
> 
> 
> Pretty simple really, it didn't fix the problem. I have nothing against a UPS, and it'd be nice to have one on the Tivo anyway. But I'm mainly trying to figure out when the HDMI feed is blanking out when the A/C cuts on or off, or when I turn the ceiling fan in the room on/off.
> 
> 
> That's my primary concern, and the UPS didn't help. Taking the Edge out all but fixed it. The blanking is but a mere 1/4 of a second or so without the Edge (Tivo S3 -> TV [hdmi]). Add the Edge back in and we're back to 1-3 seconds blankout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..dane



You might want to check on the forum for your display and see if anyone else is reporting a problem. If not, it sounds like you have a power and/or a wiring issue in your house. Some type of power surge, arcing or ground current fault is causing a disruption in the HDMI lock and adding the Edge into the string is just increasing the total time it requires to relock the ENTIRE system back up since each device must lock before the next one in the string can. At this point you are troubleshooting the symptom and not the cause.


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## audiodane

I have posted in the display thread as well. I agree I believe it's some sort of wiring issue... the question though is how to diagnose it, and then how to resolve it!










..dane


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## Enitime




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19160754
> 
> 
> Taking the Edge out all but fixed it. The blanking is but a mere 1/4 of a second or so without the Edge (Tivo S3 -> TV [hdmi]). Add the Edge back in and we're back to 1-3 seconds blankout.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *frank1940* /forum/post/19161086
> 
> 
> Some type of power surge, arcing or ground current fault is causing a disruption in the HDMI lock and adding the Edge into the string is just increasing the total time it requires to relock the ENTIRE system back up since each device must lock before the next one in the string can. At this point you are troubleshooting the symptom and not the cause.



Right, so the Edge should not be the problem, it merely amplifies the issue.


A UPS _should_ take care of power fluctuations like those caused by turning on the AC, which makes things a bit interesting.


Does it happen only with the Tivo or with a DVD player as well?


I would try it with the UPS again, but disconnecting any RF leads from the wall. Perhaps there's a signal booster somewhere on that line, you could be getting a fluctuation from that coax instead of the power leads.


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## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Enitime* /forum/post/19169774
> 
> 
> Right, so the Edge should not be the problem, it merely amplifies the issue.
> 
> 
> A UPS _should_ take care of power fluctuations like those caused by turning on the AC, which makes things a bit interesting.
> 
> 
> Does it happen only with the Tivo or with a DVD player as well?
> 
> 
> I would try it with the UPS again, but disconnecting any RF leads from the wall. Perhaps there's a signal booster somewhere on that line, you could be getting a fluctuation from that coax instead of the power leads.



I am pretty sure it happens regardless, but I will need to run some of those tests to be sure, thanks for the reminder. I do NOT believe I ever saw the problem with non-hdmi inputs, but need to re-check that. I can probably decently easily pull the Oppo BDP80 out and set it by the TV using a much shorter HDMI cable. If it still exhibits the problem then the Arkview is certainly not the culprit. Not sure which I'd rather hope for...










No RF going to the TV. Just hdmi. RF of course goes into the Tivo and cable-modem, but that's it. I also have surge-stoppers and DC-blocks on the RG6 CATV cable coming into the house.


..dane


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## ctviggen

How familiar are you with messing around with wiring in your panel? You might see where the breakers are for the AC relative to where they are for your HT equipment. If the AC breaker is further away from the main breaker than is the breaker for the HT, you could reverse the positions if possible to see what would happen. Supposedly, placing the high current (AC, dryer, heater, etc.) breakers closer to the main breaker reduces the chance that "downstream" breakers will see a temporary drop in voltage. Or at least this is what my electrician told me. As an EE, I find this hard to believe, but I've also not tested it.


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## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctviggen* /forum/post/19171358
> 
> 
> How familiar are you with messing around with wiring in your panel? You might see where the breakers are for the AC relative to where they are for your HT equipment. If the AC breaker is further away from the main breaker than is the breaker for the HT, you could reverse the positions if possible to see what would happen. Supposedly, placing the high current (AC, dryer, heater, etc.) breakers closer to the main breaker reduces the chance that "downstream" breakers will see a temporary drop in voltage. Or at least this is what my electrician told me. As an EE, I find this hard to believe, but I've also not tested it.



Given that the inrush current is so great I too would question how much benefit is gained by doing so, but regardless, my air conditioner units are the first breakers in the panel.







I'm going to try and put my Fluke in MAX/MIN mode on one of the outlets tonight and give her a whirl...


..dane


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## Colm

The voltage drop in the AV circuit is due to the IR loss in the line from the transformer to the house. The distance between breakers in the panel is insignificant. The only exception would be if both the AV circuit and the air conditioner are on a subpanel, and the same subpanel. Then moving one to the main panel or a different subpanel might help.


You might want to make sure all the screws in the panel are torqued to the appropriate value. Also check all the connections between the panel and the air conditioner.


When the compressor starts, you get a voltage drop and potentially a lot of noise on the line. When it stops, you get a transient (surge) when all the energy in the coil feeds back into the line. You might want to consider a hard-start kit for the compressor if you don't have one now. You might also want to consider a surge suppressor at the compressor.


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## audiodane

Update..


First, I pulled the OPPO BDP-80 out of the loop and placed it right up at the TV with a short HDMI cable, and kicked the ceiling fan on and off several times (waiting for it to completely stop), and the glitch did not happen at ALL.


Next, I put the OPPO back in the rack but bypassed the DVDO Edge and ran the OPPO's HDMI straight into the baluns. I also set the OPPO to forced 1080p for the highest bandwidth to the TV (most sensitive signal I would imagine), and re-tested with the ceiling fan... again, NO PROBLEMS.


However running through the Edge, or running the Tivo standalone to the baluns, the problem still occurs.


This is lending me to believe that the OPPO HDMI output must be "stronger" (higher current output? better signal levels?) than the EDGE and TIVO standalone.


I'm curious now about a powered HDMI "booster" perhaps? I wonder if that would solve my problems if I could send a "stronger" HDMI signal through the baluns?


cheers,

..dane


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## Colm

Well, now you have added some information we didn't have before. You are using baluns and the ceiling fan causes problems, too. A ceiling fan can cause similar problems to the AC compressor, but on a smaller scale. UTP fed by baluns seems to often have problems in electrically noisy environments. How long is the run?


Results can very well differ depending on the capabilities of the electronics on both ends of the cable.


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## audiodane

Sorry, I posted in the thread for the TV that I'm using as well, and I must have left that information out from this thread. My apologies. Anyway, the baluns do not have trouble when the OPPO BDP80 is running through them straight to the TV. But both the TIVO and DVDO EDGE video processor have the problems, it seems. That's why I'm starting to think it has very little to do with the electrical wiring and more to do with inadequate signal levels. Otherwise I would expect the OPPO running straight to the baluns would still exhibit the problem. And putting ANY of the devices (baluns, TV, source devices, etc) on a UPS did not solve the problems, so I'm not sure that ground loop is the cause either.


I'm going to start looking around at some "signal boosters" and see if they can be found relatively inexpensively and insert one right before the source-side balun.


..dane


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## Colm

If the problem were inadequate signal levels, why wouldn't it be a problem at other times as well?


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## audiodane

As an EE, I would expect different chipsets and even different implementations of chipsets can cause very different "power" output levels, as well as different signal-to-noise ratios. The fact that the BDP doesn't exhibit the problem, the TIVO does ever so slightly, and the EDGE does tremendously, with everything else the same (same baluns, same time of day, same wiring, etc), leads me to believe that signal levels (either raw "voltage" output, current source capabilities, or output SNR) are the culprit.


However, not being an expert on HDMI itself, this is merely my hypothesis.










After some searching, I went ahead and submitted an order tonight to monoprice for one of these:

HDMI Active Equalizer Extender Repeater 


Reading reviews on this product reinforce that this might be just what I need. I'm going to put it as the very last device in the chain just before the baluns, and see what happens. It'll probably be a week before it arrives, but I will be sure to write back after I get it installed and tested.


cheers,

..dane


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## snickel

for 13.35 it's worth a try


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## Colm

So, you are hoping that the output of the equalizer/repeater is better than the output of the devices you have trouble with, and sufficient to give you some headroom when whatever is interfering with the signal occurs. The equalizer function isn't going to buy you much if anything close to the source. Sounds like a crap shoot. Let us know what happens.


FWIW have you considered using a good HDMI cable, with or without equalizer/repeater, instead of UTP and baluns? It takes Cat 7, properly grounded, to equal the performance of a good HDMI cable.


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## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *snickel* /forum/post/19177919
> 
> 
> for 13.35 it's worth a try



That's what I figure.. here's hoping..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19178241
> 
> 
> So, you are hoping that the output of the equalizer/repeater is better than the output of the devices you have trouble with, and sufficient to give you some headroom when whatever is interfering with the signal occurs. The equalizer function isn't going to buy you much if anything close to the source. Sounds like a crap shoot. Let us know what happens.



When you say "isn't going to buy you anything close to the source," do you mean "isn't going to improve over the existing source signal quality," or do you mean, "would achieve better results placed at the far-end of the baluns?"


If the FORMER, then yes, that's exactly what I'm hoping.







Obviously you disagree though, so what makes you think that an active powered repeater won't make for an improved SNR? And, a "crap shoot?" Well, it's true I have limited information. But aside from getting my o'scope out and actually looking at signal levels, I think it's a reasonable hypothesis. But who are we kidding-- you must have a better hypothesis that you've been hiding...










If the LATTER, however.... then can you point me to some reference material that can better explain what these repeaters are doing electrically and what locations in the signal chain are recommended for best performance? I certainly don't care putting the repeater pre- or post- balun... I just assumed pre-balun would provide a stronger signal to travel through the balun network. I would just as easily understand, however, that post-balun might provide a more sensitive pickup mechanism and re-create the signal better than the TV's internal receive circuitry (which could always turn out to be the limiting factor).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19178241
> 
> 
> FWIW have you considered using a good HDMI cable, with or without equalizer/repeater, instead of UTP and baluns? It takes Cat 7, properly grounded, to equal the performance of a good HDMI cable.



Yes, I have considered a good HDMI cable. And it costs a fortune (BlueJeansCable, NOT Monster, heh heh). And I have a 45 foot run through a 1" conduit between the A/V rack and the TV. And the HDMI cable alone would have been quite difficult to navigate a 1" conduit's 90-degree corners with a molded 3/4" wide HDMI connector on the end. So, after plenty of research seeing quite positive results among many others using dual UTP Cat5e, I took my shot. And for the most part it's worked out well.


But I appreciate the positive reinforcement.










By the way, do you have and links to test reports indicating that it takes properly grounded Cat7 to equal the performance of a good HDMI cable? I have read only quite the opposite, that long HDMI runs suffer quite dramatically over HDMI cables. The user reviews on Monoprice for the very item I linked to are further support to that argument.


cheers,

..dane


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## taylor910

Simple fix:


Leave your a/c fan on all the time. The system kicking on and off is when it pulls the most power, like around 10 times as much as it normally needs.



Just leave it on, you won't (shouldn't) notice a difference in your bill.




(has this been suggested already? I didn't read all the posts)


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## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19178554
> 
> 
> When you say "isn't going to buy you anything close to the source," do you mean "isn't going to improve over the existing source signal quality," or do you mean, "would achieve better results placed at the far-end of the baluns?"



From reading an application note for the equalizer chip (MAX3815) used in that product, it appears that it applies just the equalization necessary to restore the signal (square up the rounded off corners?). It doesn't supply added emphasis for the high frequency component to make up for any losses that occur downstream. So, if you equalize before the long run, I don't think it will help. The high frequency components of the square wave are still going to be attenuated more than other frequencies, rounding off the nice square wave we want to see at the other end.


I think effectively, you will have whatever capabilities the repeater portion of the circuitry provides. Hopefully it is enough better than the devices you are having problems with now, but you won't know until you try. The only caveat I have for that is that it appears this device is powered by the HDMI 5V line. Folks seem to have problems with devices powered by HDMI. There might be better choices for repeaters. But who knows? Try it and see.


FWIW monoprice says to connect the device at the end of the long run...


> Quote:
> By the way, do you have and links to test reports indicating that it takes properly grounded Cat7 to equal the performance of a good HDMI cable?



Will you believe National Semiconductor ? It also fits in with what I read some time ago from a cable manufacturer (I forget which one) about the need for pair shielding at gigabit ethernet speeds and above. Their contention was that the shielding was necessary to achieve acceptable crosstalk figures and it was supported by testing. I don't think Belden agrees, though. Of course, ethernet can stand some errors because of error detection and the possibility of retransmitting frames. With HDMI, we don't have that luxury. And there is no error correction on the video.


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## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *taylor910* /forum/post/19181592
> 
> 
> Leave your a/c fan on all the time. The system kicking on and off is when it pulls the most power, like around 10 times as much as it normally needs.
> 
> 
> Just leave it on, you won't (shouldn't) notice a difference in your bill.
> 
> 
> (has this been suggested already? I didn't read all the posts)



Hasn't been suggested yet, however it also occurs when we kick the ceiling fan up from medium to high speed for those occasional really hot afternoons.. But thanks for the suggestion!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19182174
> 
> 
> From reading an application note for the equalizer chip (MAX3815) used in that product, it appears that it applies just the equalization necessary to restore the signal (square up the rounded off corners?). It doesn't supply added emphasis for the high frequency component to make up for any losses that occur downstream. So, if you equalize before the long run, I don't think it will help. The high frequency components of the square wave are still going to be attenuated more than other frequencies, rounding off the nice square wave we want to see at the other end.
> 
> 
> I think effectively, you will have whatever capabilities the repeater portion of the circuitry provides. Hopefully it is enough better than the devices you are having problems with now, but you won't know until you try. The only caveat I have for that is that it appears this device is powered by the HDMI 5V line. Folks seem to have problems with devices powered by HDMI. There might be better choices for repeaters. But who knows? Try it and see.
> 
> 
> FWIW monoprice says to connect the device at the end of the long run...



Awesome-- thanks. I missed the suggestion as to which side until you just pointed it out. I also was unaware of the chipset apparently used within the device. Thanks for that too. We'll have to see what happens.. And as to voltage, I could always crack the thing open and add an external 5V source.










Looking at the transitions that were recovered on the MAX3815 chip was impressive. Not knowing exactly what my own waveforms look like normally or under a "fan turning on" situation, I obviously can't say whether or not this chip is the solution. But I think it's worth a shot, and with the datasheet handy I have a bit more to reference if I need to get my scope out...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19182174
> 
> 
> Will you believe National Semiconductor ? It also fits in with what I read some time ago from a cable manufacturer (I forget which one) about the need for pair shielding at gigabit ethernet speeds and above. Their contention was that the shielding was necessary to achieve acceptable crosstalk figures and it was supported by testing. I don't think Belden agrees, though. Of course, ethernet can stand some errors because of error detection and the possibility of retransmitting frames. With HDMI, we don't have that luxury. And there is no error correction on the video.



Well, everybody wants to sell you silicon.







Regardless, I'll read your link in more depth.


thanks,

..dane


----------



## audiodane

I just did a good bit of testing..
Once again, the OPPO BDP-80 (hdmi out) to Arkview dual-Cat5e baluns to TV work perfectly.. 36bit color, clicking the ceiling fan speed anyhwere (even from OFF to FULL, the hardest momentary power draw for the fan) has absolutely no dropouts of any kind.
Oppo to the DVDO Edge to the Baluns to the TV glitches up when the ceiling fan speed is changed
Additionally, the DVDO Edge to balun to TV combination, upon further examination, cannot pass 30- or 36-bit color depth, but only 24bit. I am trying to secure a long HDMI cable to drape across the room straight from the DVDO Edge to the TV to see if the baluns are causing the lack of deep color problem or if it is the EDGE itself. Wouldn't that be a fun revelation...








Adding the newly received HDMI Repeater (which based on recent education should probably be called an HDMI Signal Rebuilder rather than a Repeater, but I digress...) placed at the DVDO Edge (source) end did nothing to help the situation, as expected (mentioned in an above post).
Placing the HDMI Recovery device at the far end (just after the far-end receiver balun) helped things, but did not completely erradicate the problem. 30bit color could be passed with sparkles, but still not 36bit color depth. Video dropouts still occurred with ceiling fan activation, but to a lesser extent. (But I want a _complete_ solution/resolution...)
Any combination thus far with the Edge causes video dropout during ceiling fan activations.








Since the ceiling fan issue is so much easier to replicate (the switch is in the room), I focused on that root cause for tonight's experiments.
Even disconnecting all other inputs to the DVDO EDGE and having only the OPPO BDP-80 (apparently the strongest single source in my equipment rack) into the DVDO EDGE and then out to the baluns and TV still exhibit glitching during ceiling fan activations.









My next curiosity centers around why the OPPO device can pass 36bit color (much higher bandwidth than 24bit color) and have absolutely no glitching that I could see even with ceiling fan activations, while the DVDO EDGE cannot even pass 30bit color reliably withOUT problems... much less during ceiling fan activations.


curious-er and curious-er...


..dane


ps.- time to email DVDO I think...


----------



## SirNickity

Hey just some random thoughts here...


The UPS doesn't help because typically they are passthrough devices (no more special than a surge protector) until running from battery. On battery, some provide nice, smooth sine waves, others provide approximated stair-steps. The latter may be worse than dirty A/C. Try it unplugged from the wall and see if it makes any difference. If you want one that runs off the inverter 100% of the time, you're looking for an "online" UPS (vs. line-interactive or standby) and it'll cost you more.


If you want really clean power, look into a power conditioner. They usually run about as much as a good UPS. It isn't adequate if it's a bullet item on the back of a $13 power strip.


I'm not sure exactly what the Edge is, and I'm typing this on a phone so I haven't researched it at all, but by the context it sounds like a scaler or processor of some sort. Any chance you can run that at your TV end with a short cable instead? If I mistook the functionality and it's some sort of HDMI aggregation device, that probably isn't practical. But it's an idea and the resulting behavior could be interesting.


From what I understand about HDMI, it's entirely normal for devices to play nicely (or not) with other devices. It's no indicator of quality. Also in high-speed applications, there are typically design trade-offs between implementations that are well-suited to long cable runs and those that expect minimal cable loss. IE., there may be a conscious decision to accept poor performance over 45ft of cable in order to optimize... well, some other aspect anyway. 


Read any amount of circuit design theory and you'll see... you never get the best of both worlds. Good designers straddle lines all day.


----------



## SirNickity

Oh I forgot... The purpose of having large mechanical devices closest to the main breaker is to minimize the effect on grounding. All the "noise" and stuff is fed straight to ground. Ground is also the reference point for voltage.


If a device dumps transient voltage to ground, and some other circuit takes its reference point between the earth rod and that device, there is a period of time where its reference point is not exactly 0V. (I suppose you could argue that 0V is always relative to something, and you may never REALLY have 0V, but that's just pedantic.)


Grounding principles dictate that you should only connect grounds in a star pattern, with all leads equidistant from the earthing point. Bus bars smack face first against this principle, but before devices clocking in at GHz, and running square waves over tens of feet where mere mV of noise could be the difference between good and bad... Well, who cared? Your Oppo may just have particularly good PSU isolation.


----------



## audiodane

Yes, the DVDO EDGE is both a video processor as well as a multi-format media aggregation device (composite, svid, hdmi, etc).. And I understand all day long that device designers make compromises.. I'm an EE that designs electronics for a living.







It could be the reality that it has a lesser capable output because they've shoved so much other high performance stuff in there. But if that's the case, while understandable, it's still quite unfortunate. I have emailed them about this thread as well as a summary of my situation. Hopefully I'll hear back from them by early next week..


Interesting point about the EDGE possibly just having poor PSU isolation. I have been focused on the output section, but as you say it could be the input that is the problem. And I have learned recently that not all UPS devices are created equal. And I'm not looking to spend tons and tons of money on this. I'd be more likely to get rid of the EDGE before spending a whole lot of money on the problem..










thanks!!

..dane


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Colm

What version firmware are you running on the DVDO Edge?


----------



## audiodane

v1.50, build 1.27


----------



## bigDvette

I hope you find a solution to this.


I have been having this cutout problem myself and just tonight tied it to the AC kicking on which made me do a search that led to this thread.


I am using the monoprice HDMI wallplate extenders. Today I re-ran Cat-6 cable instead of the 5e I was using and this made no difference. Tonight I just realized it was tied to the AC turning on/off. More specifically the upstairs unit.


Everything in my rack except the HDMI splitter was tied in to the Belkin Pure AV UPS. I plugged the HDMI splitter in to the UPS and it made not difference. I am having this problem with my Series 3 Tivos. The thing that makes me think it is not HDMI signal strength is because the HDMI 4x4 splitter is providing all the sources to the extenders. My HDMI cable length from the Splitter to the wallplate is only 1 foot, then 50ft of cat6 and then a 3ft cable to the tv.


I'm thinking it is either the power at the TV somehow affecting or creating a feedback through the HDMI and wallplate or somewhere my cat6 is running near a power wire that goes to my AC. Maybe using sheilded Cat6 would help in this case.


I'm considering taking out the splitter as a first test.

Pluggin the TV in to a wall outlet in another room to see if it is a circuit problem.

Trying an HDMI cable with ferrite cores on each end.

Last option is re-running sheilded Cat6 which I think is the most likely fix.


btw - there is similar thread with some av installers here:

http://www.avrev.com/forum/hdmi/4227...ng-baluns.html


----------



## bigDvette

Just in case this helps you with your diagnosis.


I removed the splitter and hooked my Tivo directly to my cat6 wallplates and the signal does not drop out when the AC goes on.


I thought maybe I needed to boost the signal going in to the wallplate and tried to use an active extender powered by the HDMI bus (the one you ordered from monoprice) and I found something out about the extender. When I hook my source in to the extender and then plug in to my wallplate, the wallplate stops working (no LED). IT seems the extender steals too much of the 5v to power the wallplate. I'm wondering if the splitter is not providing a solid 5V power signal and the dropout is actually occuring in the HDMI cable going in to the TV.


I tried the HDMI extender on the TV side and I get no signal at the TV.


So I plan to purchase a powered extender and see how that may help the signal or not. I'm pretty sure it isn't EMI as I tried plugging things in different places and again removing the splitter removes the problem.


----------



## audiodane

Thanks for your input, bigDvette!! This makes me feel so much better that I'm not just going crazy, that this really is an issue with baluns.


Also I had not seen the link on avrev.com, thanks for that. There was one poster that indicated baluns by "Audio Control" seemed to work well, but a post by others may indicate that it's not a particular brand that matters but rather a pairing of "likeminded gear" ..










I would be very interested to hear how it goes with your active powered splitter also!


The baluns I use have a powered receiver. This no doubt is to supply the power over HDMI (per spec) as needed. So the extender (or rather "recoverer") device does power-up when connected to either end of the baluns. Installing at either end does not solve the problem, however. I *STILL* have not broken out my o'scope in all of this... I'm not sure it would help tremendously, I only have a 100mhz scope. I understand these bitrates to be much higher than that. I MAY be able to see "signal level" (e.g. voltage) differences, but most likely not signal-_quality_ differences (edge-rates, eye diagrams, etc).


Since my Tivo S3 and OPPO BDP-80 do not exhibit the problem from their direct outputs, I am pretty sure it is an inferior output form the DVDO Edge. Funny, since it's a video processor.










Hopefully this can get fixed by Christmas..










Please post back any additional insights you find.. I will of course do the same.


thanks,

..dane


----------



## audiodane

Another virtual shot-in-the-dark...


Reading up some more based on bigDvette's posts, I have read about some successes related to a little device like this one:

Cables To Go 42223 RapidRun Digital HDMI Voltage Inserter 


While I still believe my problems to be related to signal-to-noise ratios (SNR) rather than a power pin dropout, I have read reviews on various sites about products much like this one with varying degrees of success. Some reviews that report similar situations have had their problems disappear. Others with similar problems have not seen such success.










More and more I am understanding what people mean by HDMI being so "difficult." Component Video was nowhere near the trouble... and from everything I understand, it has PLENTY of bandwidth to carry a 1080p (even a 2K res.) signal. It's the industry folks who get scared over an "analog" signal being too easily cracked. Silly, really-- NOTHING they do will keep the big big disc copiers from doing their (illegal) thing. It may keep a few (non-college) kids from making copies, but the real result is that it causes more and more headaches for the average consumer... --- _sorry.. rant over!_


Anyway, $15 for the hdmi recoverer.. another $15 for this guy.. I hate it. But the manual labor effort and cost involved to get an actual HDMI cable from AV closet to screen is still a MUCH more daunting task...


Anybody here try and of these 'hdmi voltage insert-ers' that could share their story?


cheers,

..dane


----------



## markrubin

if a ceiling fan speed change also causes the problem than possibly it is EMI


agreed about component video: and you could switch it instantly : no handshake required


soon they will limit the resolution fed over component video to comply with ..more copy protection rules


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/19219093
> 
> 
> if a ceiling fan speed change also causes the problem than possibly it is EMI
> 
> 
> agreed about component video: and you could switch it instantly : no handshake required
> 
> 
> soon they will limit the resolution fed over component video to comply with ..more copy protection rules



Normally I would tend to agree, but the Tivo (S3) and Oppo Bluray player both operate just fine with the fan clicking even from fully still to fully on.. So EMI is a possibility. But I think the root is something more nuanced. I am curious if it's the DVDO Edge not supplying enough "umph." That would LOOK like EMI problems, and may be exacerbated by EMI noise-- but it's not EMI that is the root cause but a poor/weak signal output... (in my opinion)


..dane


----------



## bigDvette

Thing that is just off to me is that my power is on ups/ conditioners on each end. Why would removing the splitter only do anything to keep the signal in sync. Theoretically nothing should change when ac goes on, but I believe the whole thing is at risk because I believe my mono price wall plates are stealing all the power off the hdmi line which is why if I use the extender on the tv side, I get no signal and when I use it between the source and the wall plate, the wall plate doesn't power. So I plan to hook in the powered booster right after it comes out of the wall plate to the tv and see if it the tv loosing sync due to a weak signal. Will only be a 2' run.


----------



## audiodane

(Sorry, ultra-long-winded answer follows... I did not have time to trim it down)

*SHORT ANSWER*


I am thinking more and more now that the *root cause* is that the last device in the chain just before the HDMI/Cat5e baluns is not putting out the full power necessary on the +5V line (pin 18 on a HDMI Type-A connector) for the HDMI sender-balun to properly apply the necessary pre-emphasis on the HDMI signals to run over long Cat5e links. The _far_ end receiver is powered by a DC adapter so that _its_ chip has power and to provide the +5V on pin18 to _its_ downstream device. But the SENDER balun does not have a +5V DC power plug.. Nor should it need one. The HDMI spec says that the upstream device should provide that power..... but maybe that upstream device is NOT providing that power (or enough of it)...

*LONG ANSWER*


Well in theory, those opinions talking about EMI and ground loop issues (the two are extremely closely related) I believe are probably correct-- HOWEVER, I do NOT believe they are the *ROOT* cause, which is why using shielding Cat-X cables don't always fix the problem. In my case, I am stuck with what I have, running a new (HDMI) cable would be _extremely_ difficult and costly. So the whole shielding issue is a moot point for me.


In my mind there are one or two things big possibilities..


(_DISCLAIMER! I am not a pro on the HDMI spec! This is all just speculation on my part!_).


On the one hand you have differential signaling (LVDS) being used on some the data lines. On the other hand you have NON-differential I2C communications going on for the DDC link.. *At least this is my understanding.* So the DDC link does not benefit from the differential techniques that the other data lines use. And since DDC is used in the HDCP handshake process, it's left to be more vulnerable over long runs. This *could* be helped by using shielded Cat5e/Cat6 cables, but again is not the root cause (in my mind)... Now it is true that I2C communication is extremely slow (Almost at a stand-still in comparison to the other channels in an HDMI link), and that's probably the reason that it is not differential (less costly). _So that issue is probably not the root cause either._


Now, the second aspect is this +5V signal that's carried on pin 18 of a type-A HDMI connector. Reading various forums over the past couple of days looks like not all devices put out the max allowable power draw. The simple net result is that any downstream device that needs power to do its job (and expects it per the HDMI spec) is set up to be a disappointment if the upstream device can't power it sufficiently. Certainly active (chip-based) HDMI/Cat5e baluns need power for their chips to do their job. They act as a buffer/isolator/repeater device. _But as with any electronic device, if power is 'starved,' then the device will work sometimes, but not other times. It becomes extremely "situational dependent."_ (hmmmm.... beginning to sound familiar, isn't it?)


In the baluns I use (Arkview), only the far-end (TV side) receiver is powered by a DC power adapter. I always wondered WHY the source-end adapter was not powered. Foolishly I thought that the far end device was simply supplying power to both sender and receiver. But that wouldn't really make sense-- Cat5e isn't really made for power distribution (though it CAN be used for it... just look at the PoE standard). So in retrospect I _now_ believe the sender-balun is simply expecting to draw _its_ power (because the HDMI spec says it can) from the upstream HDMI device. But not all upstream devices may actually provide the balun what it wants/needs (or maybe just not as cleanly as it should?), resulting in the sender-balun in some situations not having enough power to properly do its job..... The sender balun is being starved, which not only yields for a much WEAKER signal going through the Cat5e wires, but also makes those signals (and the transmitter device itself) much more vulnerable to EMI spikes.. even static electricity from a hand-to-doorknob-static-discharge). This *could* be the cause of these HDMI - Cat5e baluns not working the way they should with some devices, and working flawlessly with other devices. It sure is lining up with my understanding of electronic devices and what happens when you starve them of their full necessary power..


In fact, glancing quickly at an HDMI/Cat5e extender at Amazon finds this review.. sounds familiar.. the first comment listed below also sounds familiar.. the second comment I quote below is about the 10th time in the past couple of days that I have heard that bit of information, which is where I began formulating the above hypothesis.


Item: Tripp-Lite (Model P167-000) HDMI over Cat5 Active Extender Wall Plate Kit 


Review: Amazon.com Customer Review 



> Quote:
> By John A. Gorrilla (August 4, 2009)
> 
> 
> I just got off the phone with Tripp Lite and am sorry to report the HDMI over Cat5/6 extender will not work through a receiver. No explanation from Tripp Lite other than it has to be plugged into a source directly.
> 
> 
> There does not seem to be anything about this in the product literature unless I just missed it, but since I am sure I am not the only person who has dreamed up this configuration, I thought I would pass along the information.
> 
> *Comments*
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Timothy M. Vann says:
> 
> I had the same problem.
> 
> The tripplite would work with the PS3 plugged directly into the tripplite like this:
> 
> PS3-->Tripplite-->TV
> 
> but it would not work going through the receiver like this:
> 
> PS3-->Pioneer VSX 94 Receiver-->Tripplite-->TV
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> J. Kolb says:
> 
> Hi, i was very excited by my recent discovery of a solution to this problem so I thought i would share. Apparently, alot of receivers do not comply to the HDMI specification requiring 5V of power over one of the pins. On a hunch, i bought this from amazon for $15 Cables To Go 42223 RapidRun Digital HDMI Voltage Inserter (Black). They are also sold on other websites.
> 
> 
> This piece solved my problem and now I have pretty much flawless picture!
> 
> 
> I had the problem on two receivers, yamaha 663 and brand new onkyo ht-rc180. It fixed it on both! Definitely a much cheaper solution that buying a new balun.
> 
> 
> Please note, i also instead a viewhd 2 port powered splitter, which gave me a picture but not without significant "sparkling" of the picture. Using the voltage inserter, i get perfect picture, although every now and then I notice a 1 frame flicker of grey fuzz, which may very well be the source i have hooked up, but i havent connected any other devices yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...




Looks like I've convinced myself to buy one of those HDMI Voltage Inserters....











cheers,

..dane


----------



## SirNickity

You were right the first time Dane.. Many of the active HDMI baluns do indeed only require power on one side. Some aren't even particular about which side you power. Power is delivered to the other side via the UTP cable between.


Now, UTP cable is just copper. You can send power on it just fine so long as 1) the voltage isn't high enough to break down the insulation (it isn't), and 2) the current draw isn't so high, and/or the distance so long, for resistance to be an issue. We're talking about mA here. A couple watts at best. Not a problem for Cat5/6 at 24AWG.


In regards to HDMI signalling, the digital video data is in fact differential. That makes UTP media convenient. BUT, the problem is, differential signalling is a noise-reduction technique based on the assumption that noise will be in-phase on both signal pins, where the valid signal will be out-of-phase. On the receiver, noise is easily summed out.


As the frequency goes up, the benefits start to disappear. The frequency is starting to get high enough that differences in wire length can cause timing problems between the + and - signal. (2GHz has a 6" wavelength.) At the very least, there may be a few degrees phase difference which can blur the edges of the square waves in relation to one another. As I understand it, capacitance is higher in twisted pair (but I could be mistaken on that) which is detrimental to HF signals (and pulses are as HF as you can get!) Finally, your noise profile (inducted AC, etc.) is likely to be considerably lower in frequency than the signal component, so standard HP filtering would be trivial, making differential signalling pointless anyway.

_I.E. It probably should've been shielded coax!_ But hey! We got DRM for free! *thumbs-up!*


DDC is +5V TTL. As you said, not differential. But being 5V logic, it has a ton of room to degrade. Your biggest problem here will be TTL lines bleeding into each other, or the video LVDS.


The HDMI Spec ( http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=6#42 ) specifies +5V at ~55mA should be available from the SOURCE component. I think the intention of the 5V line is to facilitate hotplug notification, but I haven't researched it thoroughly. At any rate, it's highly recommended to ALWAYS buy externally-powered HDMI repeaters/extenders. I've never seen a passive balun, or an inline-powered balun, that was worth a crap. The Audio Control is highly regarded it seems, but I don't have a local distributor, and they're one of those companies that doesn't want their products to be sold as a commodity. Otherwise, I'd have one already. Too bad for them.


----------



## audiodane

Indeed. The +5V voltage inserter did not help. Below is the message I sent to Ken at DVDO tonight:



> Quote:
> Hello Ken. I am sorry for the delayed response.
> 
> 
> I have updated the DVDO Edge to firmware v1.5.1 and retested. No change. I ensured that the output frame rate was set to UNLOCK as well. Still no change. I have attached images of the DVDO settings, as well as a short MPEG-4 clip of the fan being turned on and off and showing the A/V glitch taking place just about every time (probably 90% of the time).
> 
> 
> To summarize:
> 
> 
> 1) I have tried an HDMI Extender ("recovery device") both just before and just after the HDMI-CAT5E baluns. Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 2) I have tried a +5V Voltage Inserter just before the HDMI-CAT5E baluns. Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 3) I have tried the OPPO BDP-80 Bluray player straight to the baluns (bypassing DVDO EDGE). NO GLITCH
> 
> 
> 4) I have tried the TIVO S3 straight to the baluns (bypassing DVDO EDGE). NO GLITCH
> 
> 
> 5) I have tried an HDMI switch between the DVDO EDGE and the HDMI-CAT5E baluns. Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 6) Setting everything back to normal (DVDO EDGE -> baluns -> Panasonic TC-P50G10). Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 7) Tried with DVDO EDGE firmware 1.5 and 1.5.1. Glitch Occurs with BOTH FW Versions.
> 
> 
> 8) Disconnected ALL inputs to the DVDO EDGE and activated DVDO EDGE menu for visual content. Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 9) Tried with both SD (480i) and HD (1080p) input feeds. Glitch Occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me what other types of tests I can run to help you diagnose the problem. Alternatively if you would like to try swapping out my DVDO EDGE for another one, I would be willing to do that as well. This problem is quite annoying. While the ceiling fan doesn't get changed very often,--- the SAME glitch occurs when the Air Conditioning or Washing Machine kicks on/off, which is much more difficult to control when watching a movie!
> 
> 
> I look forward to hearing back from you again soon.
> 
> 
> thank you!
> 
> ..dane


----------



## Colm

Ready to try a good HDMI cable yet?


----------



## audiodane

If you can tell me how to get a good HDMI cable run through a 1" conduit with 90deg turn joints, sure. Oh, and the cable has to be less than $50... Oh, and I need to fit one Ethernet and three RG6 coax through the same conduit as well....











..dane


----------



## Colm

Well, that sucks...Why in the world did you use a single 1" conduit for all that?


----------



## markrubin

actually there is a solution: and it works well


HDMI over single RG6

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19076025


----------



## Colm

There are a number of solutions that will work. They are all over his $50 limit.


----------



## SirNickity

Did you try the voltage insertion box at the TV end? +5 comes from source end. Not much point putting it there unless the source current supply is just too weak for passive electronics in between. (Which could be.)


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19247689
> 
> 
> Well, that sucks...Why in the world did you use a single 1" conduit for all that?



Hahaha... because at the time I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I had a whole bunch of 1" conduit laying around in the garage and thought oh what the heck, I'll throw a conduit in there for later..


Well that later came when we finally ditched our 32" sony trinitron tube and upgraded to HD. I have plenty of speaker wiring around the place, but nothing run for future video use. The three RG6 is actually for the kids' game systems to run back into our video switch.. One Cat5e is for ethernet, one for IR blasting back into the AV rack. I knew once I started investigating that I couldn't pull an HDMI connector through the conduit (_if I only knew then what I know now....)_, spent a couple weeks researching baluns and decided to pull four additional cat5e's through the conduit. two for a balun, and two to spare. Makes for one TIGHT conduit. But, it all fit.










If only there were HDMI over QUAD Cat5e... I'd gladly use my two spare for additional bandwidth!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19247991
> 
> 
> There are a number of solutions that will work. They are all over his $50 limit.



I could reasonably push to $100. But I couldn't reasonably spend over $100. I think I'd have to just accept it for what it is before spending much over $100.


At *some* point, the HDbaseT thing might actually become affordable. Then I could go with something like that...


I was talking with a semi-local installer (2 hrs away) who said to give him a call back after they returned from CEDIA. He says that they have always had hit-or-miss with ANY of their balun installs, and that up until now the baluns have had a relatively smaller audience. But that since more and more people are starting to use them (and have problems with them), that he is hopeful their reliability will begin increasing soon...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SirNickity* /forum/post/19247992
> 
> 
> Did you try the voltage insertion box at the TV end? +5 comes from source end. Not much point putting it there unless the source current supply is just too weak for passive electronics in between. (Which could be.)



No, I didn't try that.. the receiver end (at the TV) is the end powered by the DC power adapter for the baluns, so I didn't imagine that end could need a +5V insertion. But hey, I'll try it before I go to bed. Easy enough to do tonight.





I did some more reading today and am going to open up the Arkview to determine exactly what chipset they're using (hopefully) and look up the datasheet on that chipset (hopefully) for a pinout. I read earlier today that most of these chipsets are not pinned out to nicely route to the standard Ethernet wiring diagrams, and that re-terminating your RJ45 connectors to match the chip's +/- differential signal pairing can help.... I'd love it to be that simple. First I'll break out the manual for the Arkview and see if it had a recommended pinout that I might have overlooked the first time I read through the manual...



cheers for tonight,

..dane


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19248900
> 
> 
> At *some* point, the HDbaseT thing might actually become affordable. Then I could go with something like that...



Yeah, it sounds like promising technology. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of manufacturers using the Valens chipset (apparently in proprietary ways) and the price is about as high as their fiber solutions.


If it makes you feel any better, at least I won't be making the same mistakes when I do a similar run because of your experience and the experience of many others who have posted in these forums. But then, I will probably run into yet another problem...


Most important thing I think I have learned is to test everything before it goes in the walls. If it doesn't work outside, it isn't going to work any better inside, and maybe worse.


----------



## audiodane

Triple-post, by the way, for some odd reason.. each successive post had an added paragraph.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19248978
> 
> 
> Yeah, it sounds like promising technology. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of manufacturers using the Valens chipset (apparently in proprietary ways) and the price is about as high as their fiber solutions.



I would not be against looking for an _affordable_ single-coax solution... If I had run one of those 5 mini-coax cables instead of three discrete RG6QS cables, I could have used an hdmi-5coax solution. (though I don't know if they're any more affordable). As it is, I have essentially 4 RG6 coax cables available for use. The three currently used for the kids game systems (which I could put on MUCH less sensitive AV-Cat5e baluns running 240p/480i) plus the CATV cable that I'm currently not using (but had considered to bring digital audio back from the TV to the receiver).


I've got tons of cabling, pulled that way on purpose, thinking that surely I could make it work in spite of not being able to fit an HDMI cable through the conduit...











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19248978
> 
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, at least I won't be making the same mistakes when I do a similar run because of your experience and the experience of many others who have posted in these forums. But then, I will probably run into yet another problem...



Well that would be a good offshoot of this thread I suppose!







Selfishly I would rather this thread have a happier ending for myself, but if others gain from my problems, then I guess I can be happy with that....







and +1 to your last sentence.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19248978
> 
> 
> Most important thing I think I have learned is to test everything before it goes in the walls. If it doesn't work outside, it isn't going to work any better inside, and maybe worse.



Although I **do** admit to not pre-testing the Cat5e extenders, all of this testing shows that it *would not have helped* because at the time I did all my wiring, I did not yet have the DVDO Edge video processor, nor the Tivo S3. (While I had an idea I _would_ be getting the DVDO Edge at some point, I did not know such a good deal on a used Tivo S3 would come about so quickly.) So at the time, I was running straight out of the Oppo bluray player. And testing continues to show that the bluray straight into the Arkview baluns poses no problems whatsoever.












Last update for tonight. The Arkview folks did a real nice pinout of their RJ45 connectors. Contrary to their box labeling (which I can only assume was done for the end-user to not get the cables mixed up), the four LVDS pairs are transmitted on pins 1/2 and 7/8 of each cable. In other words, video data is in fact on BOTH cables. +5V, CEC, HEC+/-, etc are also scattered between the cables---- but in intelligent ways. Their pinout means that both T568A or T568B will work equally well (or poorly, as in my case). Both cables have a GND pin also, which is good... Diagram below..











Second, putting the voltage inserter at the far (TV) end improved nothing.


Third, I hadn't thought of it before but I tried swapping my other two (currently unused) Ethernet cables around with the two I had been using. Swapping them around in about 4 different pairing combinations also improved nothing. At least I can say that they're behaving consistently.











cheers,

..dane


----------



## bigDvette

Well, this weekend I did some tinkering with my similar problem.


I used powered extenders on each end independently and on both ends at the same time. No change.


I do have a 75' (50' + 25') HDMI running to a TV in the living room, so I decided to see what would happen without the cat5 in the mix.


When connected to my 4x4 monoprice switch, the TV can not get a sync signal. Says the signal is too week and turns orange on the connection list of the TV. Take the 4x4 switch out of the mix and plug directly in to the Tivo and it works fine. Now at least the cat 5 plates get a signal to the TV, but they lose sync on occasion so I am going to blame the 4x4 switch. I ordered a replacement 4x4 switch from HDTVSuppply with an EDID lock and I am going to see if I have better luck. It could simply be an incompatability in the chips or a weak 4x4 splitter.


Anyway, that seems to be my weak link.


----------



## audiodane

bigDvette, please keep us posted on your progress...


I heard back from DVDO with the following:



> Quote:
> Dane,
> 
> 
> Thank you for your report and for sending the video clips.
> 
> I am in discussion with the engineers here.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Ken Nguyen
> 
> Technical Support



Followed by this reply a few days later:



> Quote:
> Dane,
> 
> 
> Some questions from our engineer:
> 
> 
> 1) What is the state of the front panel LED when the problem happens? Does it stay solid blue or change color?
> 
> 
> 2) Can you hear if there are any loose parts inside the EDGE?
> 
> 
> 3) Can you try plugging EDGE into a different power outlet with an extension cord etc....? Can you try putting a power conditioner between the EDGE and AC outlet.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Ken Nguyen
> 
> Technical Support



I tested and sent this reply:



> Quote:
> Hello again Ken--
> 
> 
> Before I reply, I wanted to pass along a note from my wife.. When I explained what I was doing by telling her that you guys were working with me and your engineers to figure out what's going on, she said, "Really? Well GOOD for THEM! Way to go for working with you to try and get this fixed!" She was very impressed. I am too. Kudos guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried everything you asked:
> 
> 
> 1) Good question, didn't think to check that before. SOMETIMES it remains blue the entire time. USUALLY, however, it seems to go "Blue-Red-Blue-Red-Blue" with the first RED being longer (1/2-sec?) than the second RED (1/4-sec?).
> 
> 
> 2) Definitely no loose parts inside..
> 
> 
> 3a) Tried an extension cord to another circuit-- no change (still glitches). Tried the same outlet the TV is on-- no change (still glitches). FWIW-- The original outlet the DVDO was plugged into is already on the same circuit as the TV, but was a different outlet. But changing to a different circuit had no effect.
> 
> 
> 3b) I must have forgotten that in my earlier email. I brought home a UPS from my office and tried the Edge plugged into the UPS. No change. I tried the TV plugged into the UPS -- no change. I tried both plugged into a UPS (I brought two home one night) -- no change.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a "debug" mode I could enable on the Edge for question (1) that you asked, something that would dump an internal log via USB or something that I could send you?
> 
> 
> Also, in case I didn't already mention it, I am using an Arkview HDMI-EXTC hdmi-over-cat5e balun set. Can be found here:
> http://arkview.com/eshop/goods.php?id=25
> 
> and
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812797004
> 
> 
> 
> I would also recommend checking out the output stage of an OPPO BDP-80 bluray player. Since Oppo is a partner and the BDP-80 has been discontinued, they may be willing to let you take a look at it for comparison purposes..
> 
> 
> 
> thanks again, look forward to our next exchange...
> 
> ..dane



Realizing now that a UPS isn't quite the same thing as a power conditioner. Unfortunately I don't have access to a power conditioner.










As mentioned above, I've been pleased with their level of effort thus far.







Issue isn't resolved yet, but they're involved and being responsive. A good thing for sure.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Colm

Interesting that the front panel LED is going from blue (signal received) to red (no signal received). Of course, precisely what that means is open to question.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19267617
> 
> 
> Interesting that the front panel LED is going from blue (signal received) to red (no signal received). Of course, precisely what that means is open to question.



Well it could also mean the output sync is lost, right? Or there could even be some strange back-EMF event occuring that causes the internal DVDO guts to simply "get confused." I'm sure there are other possibilities also..


At least they're working with me! Makes me wonder if they have other customers reporting similar issues...


..dane


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19269466
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are other possibilities also..



Could mean anything. I am sure it is microprocessor controlled.


> Quote:
> Makes me wonder if they have other customers reporting similar issues...



Almost a given IMHO...


----------



## Conchuot




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19269466
> 
> 
> Well it could also mean the output sync is lost, right? Or there could even be some strange back-EMF event occuring that causes the internal DVDO guts to simply "get confused." I'm sure there are other possibilities also..
> 
> 
> At least they're working with me! Makes me wonder if they have other customers reporting similar issues...
> 
> 
> ..dane



..Dane,


I am having the same problem as you have with HDMI extender over CAT5e. I have not seen any new post to this thread. Have you found a solution yet? If yes, please post how did you fix it. Thanks.


----------



## audiodane

Well it's only been a week or so since my last post...










Anyway, I was extremely busy this past week at work and had no time to answer DVDO's next set of questions. I answered their email last night however. Problem remains unchanged, but DVDO has been responsive to my emails which I find encouraging.


Your PM to me on the same topic indicates that you have both an IOGEAR HDMI extender and SIIG HDMI extender, if I understand it correctly? Can you detail your setup configuration here, as well as any different kind of circumstances that you experience the problem? The more we can document in one place may be a good thing for others experiencing the same situation. Do you use a DVDO Edge, or just baluns?


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Conchuot

I am using IOGEAR HDMI extender to connect from my Pioneer receiver to my Sony plasma TV. Config below:


- Reveiver-> 60 ft CAT6 shield cable using HDMI extender -> Sony TV.


My TV is blank out every time I turn on the light switch or AC turn on.

I use Panamax for power condition but not help. Same problem


----------



## whitmans77

I am experiencing a simlar problem. I am running a tivo s3, ps3 and scientific atlanta cable box through a monoprice 4x4 matrix. Running monoprice hdmi/cat6 wall plates. I get black outs when certain lights turn on or the AC kicks on. Ill be deconstructing my setup to try and find the issue.


----------



## audiodane

Still no resolution, but now I know it's bugging my wife pretty badly too. That ups the ante on getting it resolved... She came to me and said, "well, now I know to never do the laundry on 'delicate' while trying to watch a show.







" The delicate cycle churns a bit then stops, sits a bit (soaking more) and churns just a tad more.. repeatedly.. every time the screen blanked out. Completely frustrated her (I wasn't home at the time).


I'm seeing a few products -- much more expensive than my $50 marker though:

MilesTek #90-12024 

- Milestek.com has it for $400  

Intelix DIGI-HD-COAX-S 

- tselectronic.com has the pair for $460  

Vanco HDMI over Single Coaxial Extender 

- Ram Electronics has for $500  

Audio Authority HXE-11 

- Markertek has for $540  


But I'm being pretty tempted by them.. I may even just sell the DVDO Edge to offset the cost. The MilesTek is apparently rated to 10Gbps..


Price is outrageous.. Still, I'm tempted... very tempted...


..dane


----------



## Conchuot

Audiodane,

I just found out an wireless HDMI from Brite View after I ordered Gefen HDMI extender for 599.00. It calls Airsync HD for 179.00. May be you can check it out to see if it work for you.

I will report if the Gefen work for me when I receive the box end of the week.


----------



## audiodane

Yes I was looking at them earlier today, and posted a question in their home forum asking if one of the models could be adapted to run over RG6 instead of wireless. My situation (Tx and Rx units would both be inside/behind wooden doors, 30ft away from each other) puts their units on the extreme end of their advertised range for 1080p service.







However, if their outputs can go to a coax cable instead of an antenna, that'd be sweet! I like the security of a wire over wireless, when I can swing it...










Please keep us posted on your progress as well!


..dane


----------



## audiodane

Got a reply back-- no RG6 support for the Brite-view AirSyncHD. I have asked several more questions regarding compression and actual bandwidth for 1080p broadcasts. I'm not in the mood for lossy 1080p from a bluray...


will keep everyone posted as I learn more...



also, I have asked that this thread be renamed and moved to a more appropriate location:


New Title: HDMI over Cat5e Problems (Video blanks when fan, light, or air conditioner is turned on)

New Location: AV Control & Automation -> Subforum "Home A/V Distribution"


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Ward216

Hi Dane,

I work for a company that designs and manufactures UTP extenders. As a bench tech and phone support I'm familiar with the market and it's problems. Some thoughts that came to mind while reading about your problem:

1) All digital (LVDS/TMDS) signalling performs much better over CAT6/solid core/500Mhz cable. Analog RGBH&V works better over CAT5e solid core or better yet over specialty low skew UTP cabling.

2) Brute force pre-emphasis type extenders are more susceptible to outside influences such as lamp ballasts, motor startup, & solenoid actuators.

3) You are correct in that I2C bus traffic does not always utilize differential signaling. Some of the entry level extenders don't utilize an additional differential line driver for data.

I'd like to help if possible. It does seem like it might be tough what with you having CAT5e in an in wall installation without the ability to pull anything else.

Regards,

-Ward


----------



## audiodane

Hey Ward.. If you're willing to chat sometime next week I'll send you a PM to get your phone number. Our room is in such a layout that I could possibly tuck two Cat6 cables around the baseboards. I just don't want to spend a whole lot more on disappointment.










will shoot you a PM.

..dane


----------



## Conchuot

Gefen HDMI extender works fine for me. No more issues but it is very expensive 600.00 + tax.


Please continue to post your update. It will help other members if they have the same problem with us.


----------



## SirNickity

I would never buy another Gefen product again. Three times I sent my DVI extender back for repairs. It kept shutting itself down as soon as the sending box was attached, but of course they "couldn't find a problem". The third time, I sent a picture of the charred SMT capacitor to the support manager, who promised that I would get a brand new, in the box, set in return. The set I got back had scratches all over it, and - surprise - still didn't work. At least that time, I got a picture for 15 seconds before it lost sync. $350 of junk.


----------



## audiodane

I spoke with MilesTek today asking about their 20% restocking fee and long story short I was put in touch with one of their tech support people who said even the coax extenders do not work well with switchers or video processors, that they are designed to work "point to point" (bluray to TV, etc). And that I would likely _still_ have problems (because I feed all my sources into a DVDO Edge video processor, and that if I did have problems I would be subject to their 20% restocking fee because it would not be a faulty product situation (after all, they're advising me that in fact it will not work in my configuration).










So that leaves me wondering, even if I got rid of my DVDO Edge input aggregator, I still wouldn't be able to run the bluray (Oppo) output into my AVR (Marantz) for lossless audio and then on to the TV...







So what, these extenders don't support AVR outputs either? Source-Extender-TV is all that works? Surely there must be more to this puzzle than that!










I have a call scheduled Monday morning with the lead engineer at Vanco (who also makes a coax extender) who apparently is quite an expert on the matter and plan to ask him "what do I do?" I am willing to sell the DVDO Edge in lieu of something different, but I most certainly am not interested in going back to lossy optical audio out of my bluray player. At a minimum I would still need the HDMI going through my AVR and then on to the extender...


If only I knew all of this 3 years ago when the addition was built I would have run a 2" conduit with 45deg angles so that I could get HDMI cables _with repeaters_ pulled through to the TV.


I might also end up having to try the Brite-view wireless HDMI. I'm not thrilled about it though since I have read folks having occasional dropouts there too. Last thing I want is to swap one problem for another.


Uggg....











..dane


----------



## SirNickity

That doesn't make much sense. What's the difference between HDMI from a Blu-ray player and that of a video processor. I can understand signal level and output stage differences, but that won't relate to classes of hardware.


----------



## audiodane

Agreed- I'm totally baffled by that statement. Which is why I have a call scheduled to the lead engineer at Vanco. I'm hoping to get a log more details (engineer-to-engineer). I will of course relay what I find out here.


..dane


----------



## audiodane

Spoke with the lead engineer at Vanco this morning. Super duper nice fellow. We spoke about twenty minutes or so...


In no particular order, things that were discussed:
Annually the HDMI 'members' get together and test all their equipment's interoperability-- HDMI is tricky enough that this is necessray. If DVDO/ABT is not involved in this testing, there could be problems with their HDMI output.
He has had some of his customers try everything under the sun with no success and finally he suggests to them "just try pulling a cable off your computer and try it" and low-and-behold it works! He indicated that even if you are careful and don't cross any wires, etc, etc., that terminating using insulation displacement connectors can just cause problems due to the ultra-high-speed nature of the digital signals traveling over them. He said to try using two long pre-made patch cables just to make sure that isn't the problem.
In his opinion, Cat6 vs Cat5e shouldn't make much of a difference for 50ft. lengths. He indicated if you're running 100ft or more then it would make sense to go to Cat6.
He said that while Europe uses shielded cat6, that generally speaking UTP works just fine.
HDMI requires a nice and solid 5V output, and if you start dropping below 4.7V or so, it just won't work. When I told him that I tried a 5V inserter, he agreed that wasn't my problem then.








Many of his customers also have their devices on the same circuits as lights (CCFLS, dimmers, etc) and appliances (dishwasher, washing machine, etc). Particularly causing problems in the hot summer when the power grid (in the US at least) is already sagging a bit due to high demand. When I indicated I had a dedicated breaker for the A/V equipment he agreed that was likely not my problem either.
In his experience the HDMI-over-RG6 extenders have a higher signal-to-noise radio, which means they can go a lot longer distances before signal loss becomes a big problem. But more importantly, being RG6, it is shielded, and is much less susceptible to EMI and other radiated interference.


So my next plan of attack is to get two pre-made Cat6 patch cables today and try it tonight. I'm also going to hook up the output of my Marantz AVR to the Cat5 baluns to see how susceptible it is compared to the DVDO video processor.


After that I am thinking about getting the MilesTek hdmi-over-coax extender. I will likely have to sell the DVDO to pay for the extender. That causes some auto-input-switching inconvenience, but if the coax extender fixes the blank-out, then I'll consider it a worthy trade-off.


Then I may consider a Harmony remote for switching sources if the DVDO is out of the loop. But that bridge is a little further down the river and I'll cross it when I get there.


But first things first-- Cat6 50' patch cables...


..dane


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19411117
> 
> 
> ...If only I knew all of this 3 years ago when the addition was built I would have run a 2" conduit with 45deg angles so that I could get HDMI cables _with repeaters_ pulled through to the TV...



Agreed! Perhaps we should come up with a good list of things to know before using extenders. We could call it "101 things you didn't think were relevant for your installation".


----------



## Enane

I have 2 DTV HD receivers, Control4 HC300 and Acer Aspire Revo to a Monoprice 4x4 switch plus their wall plates experiencing the same issues. Whenever the A/C or wall oven kick in, I lose the picture for about 1 second on 2 different TVs (32" LG LCD and 50" Samsung Plasma). Quite frustrating and still looking for a solution. The 4x4 switch was a temporary solution I threw in while I finish building my home automation system (Control4). I'm really looking for a 8x8 HDMI switch/matrix for the final configuration and I saw several options on eBay between 2k and 5k some of them having RJ-45 outputs to proprietary baluns.... my only concern is: are those baluns going to be any better than the ones Monoprice sells?? Please let's keep this thread alive and let's see if somebody can find a solution or at least an alternative that works.

Good luck!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216* /forum/post/19422324
> 
> 
> Agreed! Perhaps we should come up with a good list of things to know before using extenders. We could call it "101 things you didn't think were relevant for your installation".



Good idea! It would have to be wiki-based so that many folks could add their nugget of knowledge. Everybody has different wishes for their setup and I'm sure my experiences would only help a certain subset of people. And there would have to be subsets of the information base-- not everyone would probably be able to afford everything on the list. It would make more sense to include a "reasonable price-point" portion of the list so that people could get a feel for what they're wanting to do and how much it might cost them (pro installer labor costs excluded)...


Get somebody to setup a reputable wiki and I'll add my part!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Enane* /forum/post/19424778
> 
> 
> I have 2 DTV HD receivers, Control4 HC300 and Acer Aspire Revo to a Monoprice 4x4 switch plus their wall plates experiencing the same issues. Whenever the A/C or wall oven kick in, I lose the picture for about 1 second on 2 different TVs (32" LG LCD and 50" Samsung Plasma). Quite frustrating and still looking for a solution. The 4x4 switch was a temporary solution I threw in while I finish building my home automation system (Control4). I'm really looking for a 8x8 HDMI switch/matrix for the final configuration and I saw several options on eBay between 2k and 5k some of them having RJ-45 outputs to proprietary baluns.... my only concern is: are those baluns going to be any better than the ones Monoprice sells?? Please let's keep this thread alive and let's see if somebody can find a solution or at least an alternative that works.
> 
> Good luck!



Welcome Enane-- thanks for sharing your story. I'm really hoping this thread can be of use to people-- if nothing else than to warn them of potential problems with current generation Cat5/6/7 extenders. I'm also hopeful that we'll find at least one (ideally more) viable solution!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19419716
> 
> 
> So my next plan of attack is to get two pre-made Cat6 patch cables today and try it tonight. I'm also going to hook up the output of my Marantz AVR to the Cat5 baluns to see how susceptible it is compared to the DVDO video processor.
> 
> 
> After that I am thinking about getting the MilesTek hdmi-over-coax extender. I will likely have to sell the DVDO to pay for the extender. That causes some auto-input-switching inconvenience, but if the coax extender fixes the blank-out, then I'll consider it a worthy trade-off.



Well I got two 100' Cat6 (unshielded) patch cables from a reputable local supplier. Brand of cable was StarTech. Don't know if that's good or not, but it was the more expensive of the two brands they carried in Cat6. I got 100' because if it worked I was going to need to run them all the way around the room (behind/under the baseboards) since the conduit is full and I'm not interested (yet) in yanking it all out and starting over.


I unwound about 25' of each 100' cable, enough to reach across the floor to both extenders. ... (drum roll) ... no change. glitch still occurred.










Shielded Cat6 _may_ in fact work better, I don't really know. In my mind if it really is an EMI burst causing problems then the extenders should be designed to handle/accommodate the bursts. I'm not really interested in attempting to design a Cat5 extender, but the question is still begging to be asked why the extenders cannot handle the EMI if that's in fact the root problem.


I then moved the source-side extender to connect to my Marantz SR8001 AVR. Seemed to be quite more resilient to the ceiling fan than the DVDO Edge's output. Glitch still occurred though. If that had fixed the problem then I would be considering a Harmony and use the Marantz AVR as my input switcher.


Someone contacted me via PM and had something for me to try-- I said I most certainly would. If that doesn't work then I'm relatively sure that I'll be ordering one of the MilesTek HDMI-over-Single-RG6 extenders and giving that a shot. Unfortunately due to their 20% restocking fee, I'll likely have to resort to selling it on eBay if it doesn't work.


..dane


----------



## SirNickity

I cannot imagine it's radiated interference, as the levels emitted by a fan or AC would have to be so low that if your problems really were RF in nature, you wouldn't be able to turn on a cell phone without dropping sync. This HAS to be sensitivity to power line noise.


Lest anyone think long HDMI cables are a panacea, I have three conference rooms at work where we laid high-quality shielded 50' HDMI cables from the table to wall-mounted LCDs. Some sources work flawlessly while a few laptops won't drive the displays at higher than 800x600. A short cable directly to the TV, or using a VGA-to-HDMI box instead works absolutely fine.


We're going through the product process of elimination as well. Tried some Tripp-Lite extenders with a WDTV media player and got tons of sparkles at 1080p when there was much activity on-screen, though at least it would show a picture.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SirNickity* /forum/post/19428224
> 
> 
> I cannot imagine it's radiated interference, as the levels emitted by a fan or AC would have to be so low that if your problems really were RF in nature, you wouldn't be able to turn on a cell phone without dropping sync. This HAS to be sensitivity to power line noise.
> 
> 
> Lest anyone think long HDMI cables are a panacea, I have three conference rooms at work where we laid high-quality shielded 50' HDMI cables from the table to wall-mounted LCDs. Some sources work flawlessly while a few laptops won't drive the displays at higher than 800x600. A short cable directly to the TV, or using a VGA-to-HDMI box instead works absolutely fine.
> 
> 
> We're going through the product process of elimination as well. Tried some Tripp-Lite extenders with a WDTV media player and got tons of sparkles at 1080p when there was much activity on-screen, though at least it would show a picture.



I would normally agree-- but I've run the units off a UPS. If it is powerline noise and the powerline noise is too quick for a UPS to do anything about, then what's the next step solution? A $1500 power AC regenerator on each end (AV cabinet and TV)??
























But your comment as re-sparked my curiosity.. So just for grins I'll see if I can again borrow two UPS's from the office, one for the TV and one for the AV rack, and I'll put them all on, running off BATTERY power (so they're fully disconnected from the power outlets) ... That should let us know once and for all if it's conducted or radiated problems.. I'll try to do this tonight and report back tomorrow...


If it's in fact _powerline_ noise, then I just need a really good filter (hopefully) on both ends...


cheers,

..dane


----------



## SirNickity

If they're not on battery, they're no better than a power strip. I'm anxious to see how this turns out. (I'll just feel better ruling it out for good!)


----------



## audiodane

Quote:

Originally Posted by *SirNickity* 
If they're not on battery, they're no better than a power strip. I'm anxious to see how this turns out. (I'll just feel better ruling it out for good!)
Tried them last night. Unfortunately neither UPS could handle the TV power requirement. They must be getting aged a little. But they could handle the entire AV rack just fine. So with the entire AV-rack running off UPS battery power and the TV plugged into the wall --- (drum roll please) --- glitch still occurred.


duh-oh!


I was pulling for it being a power problem. And who knows, it still could be. The TV was still plugged in.


I have previously run the Arkview Cat5e balun wall adapter (located at the TV side) off a UPS (in battery mode), and the glitch still occurred. So last night was a good test. Unfortunately no change. A bit frustrating to be sure...


..dane


----------



## Serge5

I have personally gone through all of this myself, the solution was a 1wire balun instead of 2wire. I tied many different 2wire baluns, all had the same issue. Used the Binary 1wire balun. All voltage problems were solved!


Hope this works for you.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Serge5* /forum/post/19450197
> 
> 
> I have personally gone through all of this myself, the solution was a 1wire balun instead of 2wire. I tied many different 2wire baluns, all had the same issue. Used the Binary 1wire balun. All voltage problems were solved!
> 
> 
> Hope this works for you.



very interesting! I would be curious about how many other readers of this thread have experienced similar results (single cable baluns working better than dual cable baluns).


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Colm

I certainly see a problem with some dual cable media adapters, the ones that split the video across two cables. Inter-pair skew is a significant problem with HDMI signals, and if you split the three video pairs and the clock pair across two separate cables, you are bound to have worse skew than if you kept them on a single cable. What are the odds that two pre-made cables of the same nominal length are exactly the same length? Not very good. What are the odds that two cables run through walls and terminated on site are the same length? Even less.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19458060
> 
> 
> I certainly see a problem with some dual cable media adapters, the ones that split the video across two cables. Inter-pair skew is a significant problem with HDMI signals, and if you split the three video pairs and the clock pair across two separate cables, you are bound to have worse skew than if you kept them on a single cable. What are the odds that two pre-made cables of the same nominal length are exactly the same length? Not very good. What are the odds that two cables run through walls and terminated on site are the same length? Even less.



wish I'd known that before I started!










So are all single-cable adapters better than dual-cable? I had just naturally thought that dual-cable adapters were "better" because they weren't trying to shove as much through so few wires. I was actually wishing there were quad-cable adapters since I had two extra Cat5 runs in the wall to spread out the signal even more (thinking it would be _more_ stable)......


..dane


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19458060
> 
> 
> ...if you split the three video pairs and the clock pair across two separate cables, you are bound to have worse skew than if you kept them on a single cable. What are the odds that two pre-made cables of the same nominal length are exactly the same length? Not very good. What are the odds that two cables run through walls and terminated on site are the same length? Even less.



Not to worry Colm as the 2 wire extenders just use a combo line driver/EQ like the Maxim 3814 and 3815 here: http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/6344 and here:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/5427 

Power, DDC/EDID, CEC serial control all run through the 2nd wire.

These are low priced for a reason given the simple design, single layer PCB, limited or no ESD & noise protection and no diode blocking for 5v loop back.

And yes, I have connected the transmitter and receiver with 100ft & 3ft UTP cables and it still works fine.

Regards,

Ward


----------



## Beemer533

I've been following this thread for a while, I feel bad for you guys having such trouble with these extenders....


I've been using this extender for my LCD for about a year with no issues (knock on wood..) it is a dual CAT5e unit, but I am using STP cable with one end grounded....


They now offer a single CAT6 unit for $95.


I'm really surprised the test with the UPS didn't help.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216* /forum/post/19485382
> 
> 
> Not to worry Colm as the 2 wire extenders just use a combo line driver/EQ like the Maxim 3814 and 3815 here: http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/6344 and here:
> http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/5427



But unfortunately the Arkview HDMI-EXTC dual-Cat5e extenders are only using equalizers on the TDMS lines. The other wires (including DDC channel) are strictly pass-through. I suppose the thought is that it is higher voltage (5V) and slower (I2C, so probably 100kHz). Whatever they're doing, it wasn't working for me at least...



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beemer533* /forum/post/19485968
> 
> 
> I've been using this extender for my LCD for about a year with no issues (knock on wood..) it is a dual CAT5e unit, but I am using STP cable with one end grounded....
> 
> 
> They now offer a single CAT6 unit for $95.



Hey beemer533, yes it's been quite frustrating for me, I can only imagine everyone the frustrations of everyone else going through the same situation(s)! I most certainly am very glad that your dual-catx extenders have not given you any trouble!



*Now for an update on my story...*


Well I'm pleased to say that I have been testing out a single-CatX extender (as opposed on the dual-CatX extender that a I have been using) for the past week or so and my problems seem to have vanished. Still using the same Cat5e self-terminated cable (just one instead of two). I don't want to be too premature, but so far I have yet to see any glitching occur--- even when I flip the ceiling fan switch like a mad-man (fast, repeatedly, one-shot, super-slow to hear the arc'ing inside the switch, etc).


I don't know how these single-CatX adapters work (yet, tee hee hee), but if this unit is any indication of the single- vs dual-catX technology, then I'd recommend folks start looking into the single-CatX solutions. Until I saw beemer533's post above about a single-CatX extender for $95, I wasn't sure of any single-CatX extenders out there that hit the same price-point as the (lower-cost) dual-CatX extenders. I would very much be interested in trying out the $95 PI single-CatX extender but at this point I have a solution and I'd just as soon leave it well-enough-alone!










I am now using one of these:
XTENDEX® ST-C5HDMI-150 


It is truly "plug and play." --- But to be fair, the Arkview extender was truly "plug and play" as well, but just had this debilitating vulnerability to AC motor on/off cycling --- This unit however (*so far!*) does not seem to have the same vulnerability, and I also like that I can plug in the AC wall adapter for the pair at the source end rather than forced to plug in power at the destination end (the Arkview extender). All that's now plugged into the power strip at the far end now is the TV, and I'd rather keep it that way...




Good luck to EVERYONE else experiencing this problem. With as many views as this thread has received to-date, it is clear there is a problem out there that is not yet well enough understood to fix it once-and-for-all.



cheers,

..dane


----------



## Hyrax

I'm just starting to rewire my home theater and really like idea of using Cat5/6 instead of HDMI cables. However, now that we're on the dawn of 3D video (and the Edge is supposedly going to pass it through), are any of these extenders going to have a problem passing through 3D signals? I've no idea if 3D is worth the worry, but don't want to do something now that I could regret in a couple of years.


----------



## Colm

You are going to need to consider the bit rate the device will support, particularly if you are planning on running Deep Color.


----------



## Beemer533




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19501700
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is truly "plug and play." --- But to be fair, the Arkview extender was truly "plug and play" as well, but just had this debilitating vulnerability to AC motor on/off cycling --- This unit however (*so far!*) does not seem to have the same vulnerability, and I also like that I can plug in the AC wall adapter for the pair at the source end rather than forced to plug in power at the destination end (the Arkview extender). All that's now plugged into the power strip at the far end now is the TV, and I'd rather keep it that way...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck to EVERYONE else experiencing this problem. With as many views as this thread has received to-date, it is clear there is a problem out there that is not yet well enough understood to fix it once-and-for-all.
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



Glad to see you found something that works!


I agree about the power supply; my unit has the supply at the TV end as well. I would have rather had it stuffed in my rack with everything else...


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hyrax* /forum/post/19508378
> 
> 
> I'm just starting to rewire my home theater and really like idea of using Cat5/6 instead of HDMI cables. However, now that we're on the dawn of 3D video (and the Edge is supposedly going to pass it through), are any of these extenders going to have a problem passing through 3D signals? I've no idea if 3D is worth the worry, but don't want to do something now that I could regret in a couple of years.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19508742
> 
> 
> You are going to need to consider the bit rate the device will support, particularly if you are planning on running Deep Color.



+1 what Colm said ... Different units handle different bitrates. [email protected] is so much bandwidth. [email protected] is (much) more. [email protected] is going to be even double that.


For grins I switched the DVDO Edge to 36bit color (Edge supports 24bit, 30bit, and 36bit), which the Arkview extender (that I was using) couldn't handle at ALL.. The new NTI one works perfectly. I've left it in 36bit color mode not because I can tell any difference but because I want to preset the absolute worse-case-scenario to the extender to see how well it's holding up. If it glitches occasionally at 36bit and none at 30bit, then I can leave it at 24bit and never have a cause for worry.. _However, as it stands now, it's been running for a week at 36bit and has not yet glitched once!_ So I'm pretty excited about that. And it's running on Cat5e (not even UTP-Cat6, much less STP-Cat7)!


Anyway, you can call NTI (or whomever's adapter you end up looking into) and ask them if their unit(s) support [email protected] rates or not... They'll be able to tell you best...


Good luck!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beemer533* /forum/post/19509199
> 
> 
> Glad to see you found something that works!
> 
> 
> I agree about the power supply; my unit has the supply at the TV end as well. I would have rather had it stuffed in my rack with everything else...



You have no idea how glad I am to have this problem solved. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but every day that goes by without my wife or me noticing any glitches allows me to forget about this whole saga a little bit more.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Conchuot

Audiodane,

Glad to see that you got your problem solved.

How much did you pay for your single extender?

I am trying to get one to install for my mom

Thanks


----------



## audiodane

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Conchuot* 
Audiodane,

Glad to see that you got your problem solved.

How much did you pay for your single extender?

I am trying to get one to install for my mom

Thanks
I think the pair was around $350? Follow the link above... good luck!


----------



## whitmans77

I was having the same issue, so i ordered some single cat extenders from amazon and so far so good. i havent experienced the drop outs yet. Crossing my fingers!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whitmans77* /forum/post/19518537
> 
> 
> I was having the same issue, so i ordered some single cat extenders from amazon and so far so good. i havent experienced the drop outs yet. Crossing my fingers!



thanks for that feedback--- do you mind telling us what product you're now using? If this thread could contain links to products that worked for people, that'd be great...


cheers,

..dane


----------



## whitmans77

no problem. i ordered these

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Extender-...0342704&sr=8-4 


i have a Ps3, TivoS3 and a cable box running through a Monoprice 4x4 hdmi matrix switcher to 2 insignia 42 inch plasmas and a Sony projector. I only hooked up the new single cat extenders to the projector and 1 one of the plasmas. On the plasma with the double cat extender I was still getting droupouts occasionally. Before reading this i though the problem was the 4x4 matrix but before i hooked everything up i ran my ps3 straight to the monoprice extender wall plates then to the projector and the dropouts still occurred so i am thinking the wall plate extenders were to blame.


----------



## whitmans77

Just a quick update, the single Cat baluns have done the trick . Its been a few weeks and I have had no glitches from the TV of the projector. I have 2 identical TVs side by side one has a single Cat and the other has a dual cat on it. Whenever my skybox fridge cycles the TV with the dual cat blinks for a second. So for me the fix was going to a single


----------



## Cyntax

Thank you so much for this thread. I have had the same problem as many of you for the past few months.


I run a central HTPC in my basement that I run to 3 tv's in my house. When we were doing renovations I got a chance to run 2xCat6 to the 3 different rooms and use the monoprice extenders (along with monoprice 4x4 splitter). The TV in the kitchen has been giving me dropouts anytime there is any power fluctuation in the house(including just flipping a light switch). Its been driving me crazy, i've tried just about everything including investing in an expensive power conditioner which has not solved the problem.


I am going to try out those single cable connectors mentioned above and will report back if that helps.


Thanks for all the research you guys have done so far. Its greatly appreciated


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whitmans77* /forum/post/19625650
> 
> 
> Just a quick update, the single Cat baluns have done the trick . Its been a few weeks and I have had no glitches from the TV of the projector. I have 2 identical TVs side by side one has a single Cat and the other has a dual cat on it. Whenever my skybox fridge cycles the TV with the dual cat blinks for a second. So for me the fix was going to a single



Great!! Thanks for the update. It's also QUITE awesome that you have found us a single-Cat extender that is priced not-much-higher-than the dual-CatX extenders. Yours is over Cat6, mine over Cat5e, so we don't yet know how that might affect things. I'm planning on keeping mine just because it's been rock solid since day-1, and I really don't want to mess with it anymore! But I'm glad for others' sake that you have found a lower-priced alternative. Thanks again for the update....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cyntax* /forum/post/19633025
> 
> 
> Thank you so much for this thread. I have had the same problem as many of you for the past few months.
> 
> 
> I run a central HTPC in my basement that I run to 3 tv's in my house. When we were doing renovations I got a chance to run 2xCat6 to the 3 different rooms and use the monoprice extenders (along with monoprice 4x4 splitter). The TV in the kitchen has been giving me dropouts anytime there is any power fluctuation in the house(including just flipping a light switch). Its been driving me crazy, i've tried just about everything including investing in an expensive power conditioner which has not solved the problem.
> 
> 
> I am going to try out those single cable connectors mentioned above and will report back if that helps.
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the research you guys have done so far. Its greatly appreciated



You're very welcome! That's why I asked this thread to be made sticky and re-titled more appropriately-- because it gets so many views I know there have to be plenty of folks out there with this same (frustrating) problem..


Please do get back with us and let us know how the single-cable extender works for you. Also your configuration (cable type and length, adapter model number, etc) and of course whether or not it solved your problems so that I can update the first post with your info.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Cyntax




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19636563
> 
> 
> 
> Please do get back with us and let us know how the single-cable extender works for you. Also your configuration (cable type and length, adapter model number, etc) and of course whether or not it solved your problems so that I can update the first post with your info.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



I am happy to report that using the single cable extender has solved my problem in the kitchen. No amount of light flipping, fridge opening, or dishwasher running could cause this new unit to skip a beat. I am very very happy










To be specific:


I am running approx 20 feet of Solid Core Cat6 from a 4x4 monoprice splitter to a Dell monitor in the kitchen. I purchased this ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product ) from amazon and it has worked great for me.


Its unfortunate that it requires to be plugged in to power at both ends, but i'll take that over the horrible drop outs


----------



## audiodane

Cyntax-- awesome! thanks for the update. I have included your success in the original post...


Merry Christmas!

..dane


----------



## madmart

Thanks guys for all the info.


Just ordered the Amazon single cat HDMI extender and can't wait to try it.


I am also experiencing the drops when turning on a light switch or the AVAC turns on, etc...


I'm currently using the dual cat wall plate extender from Monoprice with a 4x4 Matrix.


Crossing my fingers that it fixes my problem. I will report back once it is installed and that it had run for a couple of days.


----------



## madmart

Forgot to ask.


Do you guys have a patch panel between the HDMI singe cat transmitter and receiver?


Was reading on another forum that we should remove the patch panel in the line so you have the least number of terminations. Just want to know if I should remove my wires oing through the patch panel and plug them directly in the extender.


Let me know


Thanks


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *madmart* /forum/post/19756019
> 
> 
> Was reading on another forum that we should remove the patch panel in the line so you have the least number of terminations.



I read that too so I have my wires going straight to the adapters with no couplers/patch-panels/etc in between. Have not tried to see if any such couplers would really make a difference though.


if you can go straight through, go for it and save yourself one potential problem up-front...


good luck, and be sure to report back!

..dane


----------



## madmart

Hi Everyone


Happy to say that the signle cat HDMI powered extenders fix the problem. No more image flickering when you turn on a light switch or the heating system turns on, etc...


The only thing is that I noticed that with these extenders ( http://www.amazon.com/Menotek-EXTEND...4403275&sr=1-2 ) I canot get more then 2 channel LPC audio. I do get the 1080P with no problem and even if they are HDMI 1.2a there is no handshake problems.


Any of you know of any other HDMI over single Cat that would also send 5.1 sound on top of 1080P video?


Let me know


Thanks


----------



## audiodane

Thanks for your update madmart, I will update the first post of the thread with your information.


I only send 2ch information over HDMI to the TV anyway, so I wouldn't have an answer to your question. I have an AV rack with everything in it (except the TV) and the Cat5 adapter is the long-haul from the final rack device (DVDO Edge) to the TV. Nothing comes back from the TV in my setup...


Maybe someone else can chime in with more support to your question..


btw, what kind of display are you using and how long (and what type) is your Cat5e/6/7 cable?


cheers,

..dane


----------



## madmart

Hi


My display is a 50" Panasonic 1080P. My cable is UTP Cat6 and the length is approx. 40'


I do notice now that the handshake takes a bit ot time when I switch between my PVR 8300HD and the PS3.


Not sure if it's because it's only HDMI ver 1.2b. Wondering if I could get the same results with powered extenders ver 1.3 which use Dual Cat wires?


Anybody with positive results?


Thanks


----------



## Colm

Cable powered media adapters have a lousy track record. Externally power ones seem to do better. The best seem to be the ones that use a single cable. I think you need to go back and read the thread.


FWIW if you aren't doing deep color or 3D you would probably do at least as well at that length with a passive HDMI cable like the Blue Jeans Cable Series 1. BJC claims to have done 125' at 1080P with that cable. Of course performance depends on more than just the cable. It also depends on all the electronics involved, the bit rate, and the environment.


Your handshake issues are likely due to the less robust method of transmission used for the handshake signals compared to the actual video/audio data.


----------



## audiodane

Agree with what Colm has written. This thread is only 4 pages long and can be read in a single sitting quite easily. A lot can be learned from these first 4 pages. Single cable extenders seem to fair **significantly** better than their dual-cable counterparts. I even kept my old Cat5e UTP cables that I had already run. I am not even running Cat6 much less Shielded Cat6, or Cat7. And I put quite a bit more than the recommended "max pull tension" on the bundle when pulling 6 Cat5e plus 3 RG6QS through a 1" conduit for ~55ft. That was back when I thought dual-cable extenders would work better. Now I've got more Cat5e cables in that one conduit than I know what to do with! ... "Had I known then what I know now" applies heavily to my experience in this thread, and I imagine others as well!










The bottom of the first post in this thread has a summary of adapters that have been tried in this thread and reported as successful. If you are not pleased with yours, give feel free to give one of the others mentioned a shot.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## oldskool75

I've been following this thread for a while now. Firstly, thanks to everyone who has contributed to it so far! It's been very informative to date!


And have switched my purchasing decision from dual catX extenders to direct long (100') HDMI cable to now single catX extenders. I made the purchase but am waiting for delivery. Biggest problem for me is that I'm in Canada, and most places don't ship don't ship to here (including Amazon), so I have to ship via mule/friend.


More details when I finally receive this thing (at the end of this week) and get to test it out.


My concern revolves around madmart's first issue he mentioned (about no more than 2-channel LPC audio. Up to this point, it never occurred to me that no one was doing more than than 2-channel sound! Now I'm a bit concerned that this thing I bought (weeks ago) won't suit my needs afterall.


Has anyone successfully tried surround sound audio (5 or more channels) via HDMI using the single catX extenders? (Raw or encoded, although I'm particularily concerned with raw/lpc)


----------



## david_nc

I just received a set of the cheap-o Monoprice dual Cat5 extenders. I didn't have two 50' cables on hand to test, so I used a 50' and a 75' between my Dish 722k HD DVR and low-end 26" LCD TV in the kitchen. The sat. box is set to output 720p that matches the resolution of the Toshiba in the bedroom (on component outputs from the Dish box) and the one in the kitchen. The Monoprice ones are available from monoprice.com or from Amazon (which seems to ship quicker). For the price, they seem like they're worth trying out.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oldskool75* /forum/post/19800033
> 
> 
> Has anyone successfully tried surround sound audio (5 or more channels) via HDMI using the single catX extenders? (Raw or encoded, although I'm particularily concerned with raw/lpc)



If the video gets through OK, so will the audio. It is transmitted on the same wires as the video, at a much lower bit rate.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *oldskool75* /forum/post/19800033
> 
> 
> More details when I finally receive this thing (at the end of this week) and get to test it out.
> 
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
> Has anyone successfully tried surround sound audio (5 or more channels) via HDMI using the single catX extenders? (Raw or encoded, although I'm particularily concerned with raw/lpc)



Look forward to hearing your test reports! Please give all pertinent info (see post #1) so I can properly add it to our "database" ...


As for multichannel, you may need to try another thread. There are plenty of threads on here relating to HDMI extenders. This one is fairly dedicated to the loss-of-HDMI-on-power-glitch problem though, and I don't know that it gets enough views of people familiar with the multichannel capabilities of single-CatX HDMI extenders. I would *imagine* that these extenders are capable of the full surround sound formats because realistically the audio bandwidth is small compared to the video bandwidth on an HDMI link. If you find some answers please do consider dropping us a line back here also..


good luck!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *david_nc* /forum/post/19805634
> 
> 
> I just received a set of the cheap-o Monoprice dual Cat5 extenders. I didn't have two 50' cables on hand to test, so I used a 50' and a 75' between my Dish 722k HD DVR and low-end 26" LCD TV in the kitchen. The sat. box is set to output 720p that matches the resolution of the Toshiba in the bedroom (on component outputs from the Dish box) and the one in the kitchen. The Monoprice ones are available from monoprice.com or from Amazon (which seems to ship quicker). For the price, they seem like they're worth trying out.



It is generally *NOT* recommended to use CatXX cables of different lengths. The fact that you're only running 720p helps you significantly, but I'm still surprised that a difference of 50% (25') between the two cable lengths works at all. Extenders can usually go crazy distances with 480p and 720p and even 1080i, but 1080p datarates drop the transmission length pretty dramatically.


did you have dropout problems before with previous extenders? you didn't seem to mention prior difficulties ..


cheers,

..dane


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19805731
> 
> 
> If the video gets through OK, so will the audio. It is transmitted on the same wires as the video, at a much lower bit rate.



said much more succinctly than me ... thanks Colm...


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19805768
> 
> 
> It is generally *NOT* recommended to use CatXX cables of different lengths. The fact that you're only running 720p helps you significantly, but I'm still surprised that a difference of 50% (25') between the two cable lengths works at all.



Except for the fact that one cable may just be too long, I think it is only an issue for the four TMDS pairs used to transmit the clock and video data. Putting some of those pairs in one cable of one length and others in a cable of a different length might result in excessive inter-pair skew. I think most dual cable media adapters put all four TMDS pairs in the one cable and everything else in the other cable. But I seem to recall seeing at least one that didn't.


----------



## Imageek2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19805942
> 
> 
> Except for the fact that one cable may just be too long, I think it is only an issue for the four TMDS pairs used to transmit the clock and video data. Putting some of those pairs in one cable of one length and others in a cable of a different length might result in excessive inter-pair skew. I think most dual cable media adapters put all four TMDS pairs in the one cable and everything else in the other cable. But I seem to recall seeing at least one that didn't.



I have 2 pairs of the Monoprice wallplate baluns along with pairs of 50' and 75' CAT5e cables purchased from Monoprice. On the 50' run I had to cut the connectors off to go through a wall. When I redid the connectors I wired them incorrectly, one of the inner pairs was reversed on both cables. No signal. I rewired cable 1 correctly and was about to do the same with cable 2 when I remembered reading that on baluns with IR control the IR runs through cable 2, that cable 1 is doing the heavy lifting. I plugged in cable 2 with no modifications and had signal. Haven't had a problem since. Seems like the Monoprice wallplate baluns aren't using all the pairs on cable 2.


At some point I will correct the mistake on cable 2 but at that point I was just so happy to have it work I figured leave well enough alone. I haven't had any problems with interference on either run with the dual baluns, but I am happy that if I did this thread would provide a solution!


----------



## david_nc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19805768
> 
> 
> 
> It is generally *NOT* recommended to use CatXX cables of different lengths. The fact that you're only running 720p helps you significantly, but I'm still surprised that a difference of 50% (25') between the two cable lengths works at all. Extenders can usually go crazy distances with 480p and 720p and even 1080i, but 1080p datarates drop the transmission length pretty dramatically.
> 
> 
> did you have dropout problems before with previous extenders? you didn't seem to mention prior difficulties ..
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



I definitely wouldn't install these with mis-matched cables like that; I just wanted to see how much better that TV would look with HD and to see how / if the extenders would work (I hate waiting to test out my 'toys'!) Plus, it was a 'worse case' test. I ordered two 50" Cat6 cables to be used when this is installed. I've not used any extenders before (if that question was for me); I had Output 2 from my 722k connected over coax to the old CRT TV until recently.


----------



## jc8587

Thanks for all the great info in this thread.


I am attempting to place all of my components in one place and ship HDMI out from my Denon, over cat-6, and on to the Panasonic. The previous owner of this house used component extenders with success, but I wanted to upgrade to HDMI.


I wanted to add my experiences with the following units:


1) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product 

Would transmit any signal 480p and below, but nothing 720i and up. I tried on a very short 3' run and on my 50' run of cat-6 I am attempting to set up. So we have an HDMI extender that does not extend HD. Awesome (sarcasm). These are going back tomorrow.


2) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product 

I thought I would have a backup with these component extenders... I was wrong. The audio was sickening to listen to and the video had many random lines flowing all over the screen. Needless to say these are going back to amazon as well.


3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product 

I know these are the two-wire extenders that people do not recommend, but they get good reviews. I am going to test these out next and will update with my results when they arrive.


In the meantime, are there any other affordable solutions? I am this close (--) to tying a 50' HDMI cable to my cat-6 and yanking it up and over the attic.


PS.. the Menotek and the Conversion Technologies are the exact same product/user manual/packaging ect...


----------



## Phillie14586

The #3 ones I have and need to return. I used to get about 30 sec out of them before it would drop the signal and now they wont even connect. I am running about 80 ft of Cat6 between them.


----------



## david_nc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jc8587* /forum/post/19826817
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the great info in this thread.
> 
> 
> I am attempting to place all of my components in one place and ship HDMI out from my Denon, over cat-6, and on to the Panasonic. The previous owner of this house used component extenders with success, but I wanted to upgrade to HDMI.
> 
> 
> I wanted to add my experiences with the following units:
> 
> 
> 1) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> Would transmit any signal 480p and below, but nothing 720i and up. I tried on a very short 3' run and on my 50' run of cat-6 I am attempting to set up. So we have an HDMI extender that does not extend HD. Awesome (sarcasm). These are going back tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 2) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> I thought I would have a backup with these component extenders... I was wrong. The audio was sickening to listen to and the video had many random lines flowing all over the screen. Needless to say these are going back to amazon as well.
> 
> 
> 3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> I know these are the two-wire extenders that people do not recommend, but they get good reviews. I am going to test these out next and will update with my results when they arrive.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, are there any other affordable solutions? I am this close (--) to tying a 50' HDMI cable to my cat-6 and yanking it up and over the attic.
> 
> 
> PS.. the Menotek and the Conversion Technologies are the exact same product/user manual/packaging ect...



I went even cheaper ($25) with the Monoprice 2-wire extenders. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product . I run 720p and 1080i (the limits of my TV) and use 50' Cat5e cables. The only issue I had, when I was testing the extenders and had the Cat5 cables laying on the floor, was when I changed speeds on a small floor fan. The image would blank for a couple of seconds. Moving the cable so it wasn't laying along side of the fan's cord took care of the problem. Since I installed the 'real' cables over the weekend, I've had no more problems.


One thing to be aware of... these extenders seem to use every wire in a Cat5/6 cable. One of my new (pre-made) cables was bad. Of course, I found out after running them in the walls, crawlspace, etc. After switching out the offending cable, all is well. That bad cable is still good for Ethernet, though. I ran my Seagate FreeAgent Theater + on it with no problems.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19805942
> 
> 
> I think most dual cable media adapters put all four TMDS pairs in the one cable and everything else in the other cable. But I seem to recall seeing at least one that didn't.



The Arkview / Sabrent dual-cat5e extenders do in fact split the video across both cables ( see here ). It's a nice pinout option in that it does not matter if you terminate with T568A or T568B technique, but does not keep all the TMDS pairs on one cable.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Imageek2* /forum/post/19809249
> 
> 
> Seems like the Monoprice wallplate baluns aren't using all the pairs on cable 2.



which might be why more people have better luck with them-- if they're _re-encoding_ the down to primarily one cable, then that's doing the trick to fix the EMI vulnerability. From what I am reading, it seems that most dual-cat5e adapters do not down-encode to one cable but simply attempt to impedance-match and cleanup/recover the signal on the far-end.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Imageek2* /forum/post/19809249
> 
> 
> I haven't had any problems with interference on either run with the dual baluns, but I am happy that if I did this thread would provide a solution!



...trying to, anyway!












> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jc8587* /forum/post/19826817
> 
> 
> Thanks for all the great info in this thread.
> 
> 
> I am attempting to place all of my components in one place and ship HDMI out from my Denon, over cat-6, and on to the Panasonic. The previous owner of this house used component extenders with success, but I wanted to upgrade to HDMI.
> 
> 
> I wanted to add my experiences with the following units:
> 
> 
> 1) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> Would transmit any signal 480p and below, but nothing 720i and up. I tried on a very short 3' run and on my 50' run of cat-6 I am attempting to set up. So we have an HDMI extender that does not extend HD. Awesome (sarcasm). These are going back tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 2) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> I thought I would have a backup with these component extenders... I was wrong. The audio was sickening to listen to and the video had many random lines flowing all over the screen. Needless to say these are going back to amazon as well.
> 
> 
> 3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product
> 
> I know these are the two-wire extenders that people do not recommend, but they get good reviews. I am going to test these out next and will update with my results when they arrive.
> 
> 
> In the meantime, are there any other affordable solutions? I am this close (--) to tying a 50' HDMI cable to my cat-6 and yanking it up and over the attic.
> 
> 
> PS.. the Menotek and the Conversion Technologies are the exact same product/user manual/packaging ect...



Thanks. While the Menotek and CT60S look to be the same, since I don't personally own both I am hesitant to make such a sweeping statement. Most likely however they are both OEM'd from the same source...


There is always a chance to get more information for everyone's configuration. If you (and anyone else) have a chance to go back to the first post to see what newer information I'm looking for, that'd be great.


One question I have for you is whether or not you're using pre-terminated cables, or if you are terminating them yourself. Also in question is whether or not you subjected the cables to excessive force while pulling the cables from location A to location B. Also in question is whether or not your cable runs are run adjacent to 120V power lines, "noisy" fluorescent lights, "noisy" incandescent/tungsten dimmers, etc..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phillie14586* /forum/post/19836580
> 
> 
> The #3 ones I have and need to return. I used to get about 30 sec out of them before it would drop the signal and now they wont even connect. I am running about 80 ft of Cat6 between them.



If the video is dropping out within 30 seconds without anything else going on (light switches, dimmers, air conditioning/heating units, etc), then it might be an HDCP issue (content protection). Are you sure everything in your chain is HDCP-compliant?


Regardless, thanks for that info. please check the first post for lots more info. that can be provided to give the most benefit for other readers...



thanks again to everyone for your continued support in this thread!

..dane


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *david_nc* /forum/post/19852104
> 
> 
> I went even cheaper ($25) with the Monoprice 2-wire extenders. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ef=oss_product . I run 720p and 1080i (the limits of my TV) and use 50' Cat5e cables. The only issue I had, when I was testing the extenders and had the Cat5 cables laying on the floor, was when I changed speeds on a small floor fan. The image would blank for a couple of seconds. Moving the cable so it wasn't laying along side of the fan's cord took care of the problem. Since I installed the 'real' cables over the weekend, I've had no more problems.
> 
> 
> One thing to be aware of... these extenders seem to use every wire in a Cat5/6 cable. One of my new (pre-made) cables was bad. Of course, I found out after running them in the walls, crawlspace, etc. After switching out the offending cable, all is well. That bad cable is still good for Ethernet, though. I ran my Seagate FreeAgent Theater + on it with no problems.



very interesting, thanks for that update!


and yes, they use every wire of both cables...


----------



## jc8587




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19852128
> 
> 
> Thanks. While the Menotek and CT60S look to be the same, since I don't personally own both I am hesitant to make such a sweeping statement. Most likely however they are both OEM'd from the same source...
> 
> 
> There is always a chance to get more information for everyone's configuration. If you (and anyone else) have a chance to go back to the first post to see what newer information I'm looking for, that'd be great.
> 
> 
> One question I have for you is whether or not you're using pre-terminated cables, or if you are terminating them yourself. Also in question is whether or not you subjected the cables to excessive force while pulling the cables from location A to location B. Also in question is whether or not your cable runs are run adjacent to 120V power lines, "noisy" fluorescent lights, "noisy" incandescent/tungsten dimmers, etc..
> 
> 
> !
> 
> ..dane



Dane,


Judging by the Menotek and CT user manuals, which contain the exact same broken english and performance stats word for word, I am going to say you are correct in that they are sourced by the same OEM manufacturer.


These cables were installed prior to my purchase of the house. I'm sure they were terminated by the previous owner. I know for a fact, since he built the house, he ran the cables clear of 120 lines and had access to the walls pre-drywall so no pulling/stress was induced to the runs. The previous owner ran Component over cat-6 using similar baluns with full 1080i compliance. I even witnessed 3d over cat-6 on components while at the house prior to me moving in.


I also ordered another set from monprice which will come today and I will report on it when I get a chance. ( http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 )


Still waiting on the other set from amazon. Should be in today or tomorrow.


Thanks again for all your work, Dane. I hope I can figure this situation out without running HDMI or more cat-6 lines. Are wireless soltutions feasible?


-Chris


----------



## eliteconcept

I have been working through my first pass at hdmi over cat6 at my new home.


I had attempted to use the HDMI over cat6 wallplates from monoprice with a 4 port hdmi switch from monoprice with cat6 cables from monoprice going 50 feet.


I found that the wall plate itself worked well with my comcast motorola cable box to my samsung 8000 series tv. I did not notice a difference between hdmi and hdmi over cat6. The playstation would not work with the hdmi over cat6 hooked up, UNLESS deep color was turned off. With deep color turned off we watched an entire movie with no issues. I tested this setup for 2 days before trying the hdmi switch.


When I tried to put the hdmi switch into the setup the playstation 3 would not work no matter what port, deep color on or off. Using all new cables and old known good cables.


Both the switch and wall plates are going back because the wall plates cat6 connection was a bit loose and a slight bump seemed to cause them issues. I bought the 4x2 matrix from monoprice and the powered hdmi over cat5/6 adapters from monoprice hopefully all the components will get along. We'll see


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jc8587* /forum/post/19856674
> 
> 
> Dane,
> 
> 
> Judging by the Menotek and CT user manuals, which contain the exact same broken english and performance stats word for word, I am going to say you are correct in that they are sourced by the same OEM manufacturer.
> 
> 
> These cables were installed prior to my purchase of the house. I'm sure they were terminated by the previous owner. I know for a fact, since he built the house, he ran the cables clear of 120 lines and had access to the walls pre-drywall so no pulling/stress was induced to the runs. The previous owner ran Component over cat-6 using similar baluns with full 1080i compliance. I even witnessed 3d over cat-6 on components while at the house prior to me moving in.
> 
> 
> I also ordered another set from monprice which will come today and I will report on it when I get a chance. ( http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 )
> 
> 
> Still waiting on the other set from amazon. Should be in today or tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Thanks again for all your work, Dane. I hope I can figure this situation out without running HDMI or more cat-6 lines. Are wireless soltutions feasible?
> 
> 
> -Chris



Thanks for comparing the user manuals, jc8587. I'm guessing then that the 3D was 1080i/3D, since it was over component video? 1080i is 'half as demanding' as 1080p, and many more devices exist out there that can do 1080i than can do 1080p as a result.


eliteconcept's post is a good reminder of some of the funky problems that I ran into in my own early difficulties.. The bluray player output worked great, the DVDO's output didn't hardly work at all. There is still no true "understanding" of the problem, aside from the fact that _*in general*_, the dual-cable baluns don't work as well as the single-cable baluns. Since there is no publicly known "root cause" yet, a generalized statement is about as good as we can probably expect.


I wish you luck with your dual cable baluns. Many have had poor luck with them, but a few have had success. Hopefully you will fall into the latter category!


EDIT: I forgot to address your wireless question. I have heard good things on the new offerings from BriteView. There is at least one thread here on AVS about it. I am pretty anti-wireless myself but was "this close" to buying it because it was less expensive than the route I finally settled on. There will be tradeoffs for both wired- and wireless- solutions. And with others pointing out some more affordable wired solutions than the one I bought, the number of affordable options (wired and wireless) are increasing.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eliteconcept* /forum/post/19858751
> 
> 
> I have been working through my first pass at hdmi over cat6 at my new home.
> 
> 
> I had attempted to use the HDMI over cat6 wallplates from monoprice with a 4 port hdmi switch from monoprice with cat6 cables from monoprice going 50 feet.
> 
> 
> I found that the wall plate itself worked well with my comcast motorola cable box to my samsung 8000 series tv. I did not notice a difference between hdmi and hdmi over cat6. The playstation would not work with the hdmi over cat6 hooked up, UNLESS deep color was turned off. With deep color turned off we watched an entire movie with no issues. I tested this setup for 2 days before trying the hdmi switch.
> 
> 
> When I tried to put the hdmi switch into the setup the playstation 3 would not work no matter what port, deep color on or off. Using all new cables and old known good cables.
> 
> 
> Both the switch and wall plates are going back because the wall plates cat6 connection was a bit loose and a slight bump seemed to cause them issues. I bought the 4x2 matrix from monoprice and the powered hdmi over cat5/6 adapters from monoprice hopefully all the components will get along. We'll see



Yes, I had similar problems where deep color would not work as well (if at all), and where some devices seemed to work fantastically where other devices would hardly work at all. It led me down a very deep rabbit hole about looking into the "hdmi output quality" of the various devices, but I could never find any way to make the output of the DVDO Edge (for instance) work as well over the dual cable balun as the Oppo BDP80. In the end I got a single-cable adapter, and all my problems instantly vanished-- AND it's now set to deep color (36bit) all the time (being always fed from the DVDO Edge). I haven't had any problems since and have hardly even thought about it aside from keeping this thread updated and offering help to others....


good luck, keep us posted. With over 9,000 views to-date, I know a lot of people are keeping tabs on our collective progress..


..dane


----------



## jc8587

Well guys...


...this product from monoprice solved my major dilema (no not spelling): shipping HDMI @ 1080p over 50ft Cat-6 runs.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...=2#description 


I have a BR player(HDMI), DVR cable box(HDMI), Xbox 360(Component), and a Wii(Composite) all connected to my Denon AV591 AV Receiver. From the Receiver I plug up this great product's sender unit and ship the signal over 50ft of Cat-6 cables (not exactly equal length or twin cables, but close) to receiver unit bhind my TV. From the receiver unit to back to HDMI cable then to the TV. It works great and delivers full , crisp, stable 1080p video with HDCP compliance!


There are downsides, however, because this is not compliant with HDMI 1.3 or 1.4 (only 1.2a) this product is not compatible with 3D, nor is it able to ship ethernet over HDMI nor is it ARC capable.


The last issue that I don't have an answer to is why my audio will not come through to the TV. It could be a wiring issue on my end, but even though I get full 1080p video, I cannot use my TV speakers. This is only troubling if we're watching the news or I don't want to blast the surround sound while the lady is asleep.


Overall this is a great product and fits the solution I needed for my setup.


The Mediabridge product from amazon turned out to be another implementation of the CT and Menotek products, and again, did not work in my situation.



Dane, here are the credentials for the first page.



jc8587:

try #1:

- Source-end: Denon AVR 591

- CatX Adapter: Menotek HDMI Extender (same as Conversions Technology?) (Amazon,


----------



## audiodane

Chris-- awesome that it's working for you (video, at least). I'm by no means a CI (custom installer), but more and more I'm reading of the strangest things that occur with HDMI that never occurred with pre-hdmi technologies. Hopefully it will improve over the years as HDMI continues to mature. Please also keep us posted when you get your audio problems sorted out, just in the off chance that it has some application to the topics at hand here...


And thanks so much for going ahead and formatting all your data for me-- you have no idea how much easier it makes it for me! 1st post updated with your latest results.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## jc8587




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19865340
> 
> 
> Chris-- awesome that it's working for you (video, at least). I'm by no means a CI (custom installer), but more and more I'm reading of the strangest things that occur with HDMI that never occurred with pre-hdmi technologies. Hopefully it will improve over the years as HDMI continues to mature. Please also keep us posted when you get your audio problems sorted out, just in the off chance that it has some application to the topics at hand here...
> 
> 
> And thanks so much for going ahead and formatting all your data for me-- you have no idea how much easier it makes it for me! 1st post updated with your latest results.
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



Well, I apologize, but you'll have to update that first post one more time










The audio was actually a setting on the Denon Receiver. You can set it up multiple ways and deliver audio to the TV+Stereo, TV only, Stereo only, or even pass through the HDMI signal with the reciever in standby mode. I played around with the settings (there are so many on this Denon!) and poof audio through the TV!


Looks like the extenders are doing their job afterall!


I also received my Logitech Harmony 890 + RF extender. What an awesome product. I had it setup through the software in less that an hour and, with the "help" button on the remote, was able to troubleshoot any issue without the use of the software at all! (I recommend ebaying one for cost reasons)


Like Dane said, I hope this thread helps others who are looking for a good way to ship HDMI.


I have tested 4 products and the last, and cheapest, one worked... funny how that happens. As a side note, Amazon has a very trouble-free return process. Just click on "return item" and drop it off at your local UPS store. Easy.


Thanks again, Dane!


-Chris


----------



## eliteconcept

I borrowed a blu-ray for giggles to test on my setup with the dual catX passive wall plates from monoprice, while I wait for the powered catx adapters to arrive.


Eliteconcept

try #1:

- Source-end: PS3 / comcast motorola cable box

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice 
- CatX Cables: ~50ft Cat6 STP x 2

- Far-end: Samsung UN55B8000

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 1080i/p

- Status: Feed from comcast cable box worked good. Standard def and hi def channels work great with respect to audio and video quality, achieved 1080i from comcast cable box hi def channels. Had maybe 2 dropouts of 1-2 seconds after using for 5 days. DVD over ps3 worked well get video and audio. Blu-ray works well from ps3 passes at 1080p at 24fps, watched for 1 1/2 hours and had only 1 dropout.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jc8587* /forum/post/19868789
> 
> 
> Well, I apologize, but you'll have to update that first post one more time



no problem (done)...








glad you got your audio fixed!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eliteconcept* /forum/post/19869185
> 
> 
> I borrowed a blu-ray for giggles to test on my setup with the dual catX passive wall plates from monoprice, while I wait for the powered catx adapters to arrive.
> 
> 
> Eliteconcept
> 
> try #1:
> 
> - Source-end: PS3 / comcast motorola cable box
> 
> - CatX Adapter: Monoprice
> - CatX Cables: ~50ft Cat6 STP x 2
> 
> - Far-end: Samsung UN55B8000
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 1080i/p
> 
> - Status: Feed from comcast cable box worked good. Standard def and hi def channels work great with respect to audio and video quality, achieved 1080i from comcast cable box hi def channels. Had maybe 2 dropouts of 1-2 seconds after using for 5 days. DVD over ps3 worked well get video and audio. Blu-ray works well from ps3 passes at 1080p at 24fps, watched for 1 1/2 hours and had only 1 dropout.



thanks for the update Eliteconcept. I have updated the first post with your info as well, though I trimmed your status to read "occasional 1-2 sec dropouts from both cablebox and PS3" to be more concise. If that is an incorrect summary, please let me know. also if you could give a few more details (link to exact monoprice wallplate [or item number], and more details on cat cable termination and stressing), that'd be appreciated also.




As a side now, if anyone wants to spearhead an effort (I don't have time right now) to package up all this data in a better format, that'd be great. I don't know the best way to do it. a spreadsheet might work, but might just make it *more* messy (and might not lend itself to easy incorporation into the thread).. a graphic? might be too difficult to maintain. With a growing list of user experiences (thank you everyone!!), it would be nice to package it under four categories:
RED- very unreliable (no signal, etc)
ORANGE - fairly unreliable (many dropouts)
YELLOW - fairly reliable (few dropouts)
GREEN - highly reliable (no dropouts)
?? - products that look interesting based on knowledge in this thread but have not yet been tested?? (e.g. PI single-CatX extender )


Then again, some products are GREEN for some users and ORANGE for others, so maybe that's not the best way to present the data ....










If anyone has a super-dooper idea how to present data in this way, please let me know..










thanks again everyone,

..dane


----------



## Dan Hitchman

For those getting no audio, be sure to check your player and receiver settings. You may have HDMI audio throughput turned off on your pre-amp or receiver.


Some receivers' HDMI audio out settings have this listed as a choice of RECEIVER + TV or just RECEIVER. You'd have to select RECEIVER + TV to allow the audio stream to continue on through the HDMI monitor output.


FYI


----------



## audiodane

good reminder-- thanks Dan.


----------



## eliteconcept

dane,


I used these hdmi wall plates .

cables are terminated per T568B guidelines.


----------



## eliteconcept

I got my powered hdmi catX adapter and 4x2 matrix this afternoon and got it all hooked up.


Been watching tv all evening and will do an early report of my results.


Eliteconcept

try #2:

- Source-end: PS3 / comcast motorola cable box

- CatX Adapter: MonoPrice 

- CatX Cables: ~50ft Cat6 STP x 2

- Far-end: Samsung UN55B8000

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 1080i/p

- Status: very very minor audio/video freezing. Could be cable box to early to say, but will monitor and report back



UPDATE

So far so good. Watched despicable me last night no problems. I'll note that I'm also using an HDMI switch between the cable box/ps3 and CatX adapter.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

What matrix switch are you using? What are you terminating your Cat6 STP cables with?


----------



## eliteconcept

I am using this hdmi matrix from monoprice 


What am i terminating the cat6 with? Standard rj45 network ends that conform to T568B termination standards.


----------



## Dan Hitchman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eliteconcept* /forum/post/19905012
> 
> 
> I am using this hdmi matrix from monoprice
> 
> 
> What am i terminating the cat6 with? Standard rj45 network ends that conform to T568B termination standards.



The reason I asked was that I've been told you need to use shielded ends for STP Ethernet cable.


----------



## eliteconcept

one end is sheilded one is not. I had to cut the ends in order to get them down the conduit at my house and then re-terminate them. Bought the cable with the ends on them.


So one end is sheilded one end is not on each of the cables.

Figure that many people run UTP cat5/6 should be ok if the ends are the only part not shielded but if I run into issues then I'll re do the ends.


----------



## Dan Hitchman

Gotcha!


----------



## whitejk

So, I have been following this thread for a while because I have been experiencing the same issues. Anytime my dishwasher runs, I turn the overhead fan on or of, or if my heat or air cuts on or off; my direct tv signal would cut out. I thought it might just be direct tv but when I connected the tv with the receiver with an hdmi cable there was not any problems. However, my setup includes the monoprice hdmi extender 6177


So, I have tried other extenders and FINALLY found one that works and doesn't drop my signal. The monoprice hdmi extender 6532



Now, I can watch TV while my dishwasher is running, with the heat cutting on and I can turn on the overhead fan without signal interruption. Hopefully this helps someone else because the dropout problem was starting to make me crazy!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eliteconcept* /forum/post/19895618
> 
> 
> UPDATE
> 
> So far so good. Watched despicable me last night no problems. I'll note that I'm also using an HDMI switch between the cable box/ps3 and CatX adapter.



So, let me understand this .. you kept the same HDMI-CatX adapter, but just added a monoprice 4x2 switch in between your source devices and the CatX adapter, and the situation has improved that much? Wow-- that's great!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *whitejk* /forum/post/19918016
> 
> 
> So, I have been following this thread for a while because I have been experiencing the same issues. Anytime my dishwasher runs, I turn the overhead fan on or of, or if my heat or air cuts on or off; my direct tv signal would cut out. I thought it might just be direct tv but when I connected the tv with the receiver with an hdmi cable there was not any problems. However, my setup includes the monoprice hdmi extender 6177
> 
> 
> So, I have tried other extenders and FINALLY found one that works and doesn't drop my signal. The monoprice hdmi extender 6532
> 
> 
> 
> Now, I can watch TV while my dishwasher is running, with the heat cutting on and I can turn on the overhead fan without signal interruption. Hopefully this helps someone else because the dropout problem was starting to make me crazy!



whitejk-- I am so glad that you seem to have your problems resolved as well. To be most useful for everyone else reading this thread in the future, could you please give me as much detail as possible regarding both your previous setup and your current setup? Look near the bottom of the first post for a template of the type of information we're looking for.


thanks!

..dane


----------



## whitejk

Audiodane, here you go...thanks for compiling all this information!


try #1:

- Source-end: PS3 and Direct TV HD DVR Box

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender in Wallplate form PID 6177 ~ $19

- CatX Cables: ~50ft Cat6a STP x 2 (T568B terminated)

- Far-end: LG 47LH90

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 1080i/p

- Status: occasional 1-2 sec dropouts from both cablebox and PS3 when overhead fan is turned on/off, dishwasher is on and when a/c cuts on/off


try #2:

- Source-end: PS3 and Direct TV HD DVR Box

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender PID 6532 ~ $35

- CatX Cables: ~50ft Cat6a STP x 2 (T568B terminated)

- Far-end: LG 47LH90

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 1080i/p

- Status: so far so good, no dropouts experienced


----------



## audiodane

thanks whitejk .. I have updated the first post with your information.


Soon when I have a good chunk of time to dedicate to it, I will update the first post with an updated compilation of everyone's findings. *Interestingly, for some that a single-catx adapter gives trouble, dual-catx adapters seem to help. For others that a dual-catx adapter gives trouble, single-catx adapters seem to help. It's very peculiar indeed!*


cheers,

..dane


----------



## eliteconcept

Dane,


No I changed out the hdmi catX adpater I was using...the passive one...and started using the powered hdmi catX from Monoprice 


i just wanted to note that i my situation i am also using a matrix.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *eliteconcept* /forum/post/19925774
> 
> 
> Dane,
> 
> 
> No I changed out the hdmi catX adpater I was using...the passive one...and started using the powered hdmi catX from Monoprice
> 
> 
> i just wanted to note that i my situation i am also using a matrix.



Ahhh.. I gotcha now. I have updated the first post once again .. hopefully your information is correct this time.


thanks,

..dane


----------



## notenoughcash

Finally got to try this out after moving all my gear today to new location:


Intelix DIGI-HD-UHR2 / DIGI-HD-UHR2-R HDMI over single CatX cable


Source -- Pioneer 92-THX with HD-XA2/BDP-05/TW cable DVR switched thru it

Cable -- 45' CAT6 thru patch panel and wall plate

Destination -- Mitsubishi WD65833

Resolutions tested -- 1080i / 480i (need to try a BR tomorrow for 1080p)

Status -- interesting handshake issues when changing resolutions(channels) from DVR, changing inputs on the receiver to re-handshake solved, will investigate more tomorrow


----------



## limaxray

I've been doing some research for a digital signage application I'm about to tackle and have been considering using HDMI baluns and UTP. This is my first experience with this type of setup (long-distance runs) as I usually work in short-distance industrial applications. I have a few questions and thought I could add a couple of points that I don't think I've seen discussed here.


First, are these baluns really baluns? The total lack of any useful specifications on these things makes me very uneasy. I find it hard to consider asking a customer to cough up $300+ for a product that might as well be sold as running on magic. So are isolation magnetics used on the outputs of these things, or are they just overpriced differential line drivers? I see no mention of isolation voltage, CMRR, termination impedance, etc. These are all figures that should be required for such an application and it's very hard for me to consider using such a product without a proper, professional datasheet.


Are they really balanced? I get the feeling that most are not. Sure, HDMI uses differential signaling, but balanced and differential are two very different things. I find it hard to believe STP would make much of a difference for the average home installation if they were truly balanced and differential. If these really were baluns, 500 MHz Cat6 UTP should be all you need for HDMI 1.3a - over distances much greater than a measly 100'.


Speaking of which, to those who run the STP, I see some are only grounded at one end. This is correct. You should never, ever have your shielding grounded at both ends - the shield isn't meant to be a current path, and by grounding both ends, you will undoubtedly be conducting current through the shielding. This current will couple on to the signal, largely defeating the purpose of the shielding. So, if you must use STP, only ground on one end and leave the other end floating.


As for the original problem experienced in this thread - have you tried using ground isolators on the transmitting and/or receiving equipment? It sounds like you're experiencing a ground loop problem - your fan/light/motor is using your Cat5e as a return path to the breaker panel, again reinforcing my opinion these are not really baluns. I suggest anyone experiencing this problem try something like the "Ebtech Hum X Voltage Hum Filter" sold on Amazon and see if it helps. No guarantees though as I've never used such a product - I work with all DC equipment and use isolated DC-DC converters for this purpose - but it would be worth a try as isolating supplies makes a HUGE difference.


A UPS doesn't provide any isolation (unless it's unplugged and running on the battery) and I don't know about the 'power conditioner' products out there. Has anyone tried seeing if running one end on an unplugged UPS makes a difference? If the problems go away while running on an isolated battery, you've found your culprit.


As for the 2 cable units - someone previously pointed out that the 4 TMDS signals are spread out across both cables and not kept on a single cable. This is bad design. Very bad design. At these frequencies, matched cable length is critical. A couple inches of difference with throw the signals catastrophically out of phase. It would be interesting to add an additional data point to your survey for those using these products - are you using factory terminated or self terminated cables? I would imagine factory measured and terminated cables will yield the best results since they will have much higher tolerances than are possible by hand.


I would bet that the greatest threat to successfully running HDMI over a long distance is clock skew, and while pairs inside a single cable may have a controlled skew, the skew across multiple cables depends solely on the accuracy of your measuring tape and the consistency of the cable.


Anyway, has anyone taken any of these apart? It would be really swell to see some pictures to get a better idea of how they tick and if they're really balanced. I'm convinced HDMI should work very well over Cat6 and the problems people are experiencing are purely the result of garbage baluns. I'm almost tempted to design and layout my own if I ever have the time.


----------



## audiodane

limaxray, welcome to the discussion. Your first post was a doozie of topics, so let me just bullet-reply. I am speaking for myself only.
digital signage-- why not run 1080i over component video cables? You can get a bazillion feet using that method and no baluns or extenders are required at all.
"are these baluns really baluns?" -- by the proper definition, no. It's somewhat of a misnomer, but the terminology has somewhat stuck.
if a customer is going to have trouble coughing up $300 for an extender, then how inexpensive a digital signage project are they using? The "little" digital sign alone that is at the church I go to was many thousands of dollars. a couple hundred for a proper video extender (if not using wireless) seems a minor cost increase
If you go searching the various models of extenders available, you will undoubtedly see much better documentation with the much higher priced items. This is par for the course. A manufacturer selling a widget for $30 shipped CAN'T be spending much on it if they wish to make their profit margins (which undoubtedly they are or the items would be discontinued)
Are they really balanced? Well not in the traditional sense. Within HDMI cables they are-- each TDMS line has a +, -, and shield line. 2xCATx does not offer that many conductors (HDMI is 19 conductors. 2xCATx is only 16 conductors). Several solutions come to mind: a) make shielding compromises, b) use THREE CATx cables [24 conductors], or c) re-encode the 4 TDMS + control signals onto a faster-but-fewer-conductor cable. (a) are the less expensive dual-CATx "baluns." I haven't seen any (b) solutions. And (c) solutions are the more expensive single-CATx extenders.
STP shielding-- yes, ideally you only ground one side. Though depending on the amount and intensity of noise, shielding will only do "so much." True differential receivers provide much better benefit. Both (shielding and differential reception) increase effectiveness still more. You *can* make a perfect system, but you will price yourself out of the mass-market. Compromises are key in a consumer market; some products seem to work well for one customer where others don't. For another customer the latter choices work and the former options don't. This is what I'm seeing based on the data people are providing in the 1st post of this thread.
Termination style and 'stresses' placed on the cable run(s) (such as me PUUUUULLLLLing on them to get the bundle through the conduit) will affect their performance. To what degree has surely been tested elsewhere, but not within this thread.
I don't think the single greatest threat to long runs is clock skew. It is an important aspect, to be sure. EMC susceptibility, ground loops, proper impedance termination, signal recovery, ... these are all important aspects as well.
Yes I've taken a dual-CATx "balun" apart-- the Arkview balun. I don't believe I took pictures.


I don't want this thread to get bogged down with theories-- theories are great, but are a dime a dozen. If you have any time to spend debugging the various issues at play, we'd love to hear what you discover.


What we need is empirical evidence. For some that means relaying their experiences (good and bad) to this thread so that we can look for large-scale "patterns" that we can use to better guide newcomers. For others empirical evidence means breaking out an oscilloscope and looking at signals as they go through different length of cables and with EMI pulses how the waveforms are affected. For still others empirical evidence may be actually modifying inexpensive "baluns" so that they perform better and giving us the results of their testing/findings.


To whichever degree you can help, it would be appreciated. To my knowledge there are no other message threads "out there" in the interweb doing even as little as we are to try and gather evidence, much less promote solutions. I want to do the latter. But can't do it alone.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *limaxray* /forum/post/19970394
> 
> 
> I'm convinced HDMI should work very well over Cat6 and the problems people are experiencing are purely the result of garbage baluns.



Keep in mind three important things. The first is that the raw bit rate of a HDMI signal can exceed the capacity of gigabit ethernet. The second is that HDMI uses a two level encoding scheme system that sends one bit per symbol while gigabit ethernet uses a five level encoding scheme that sends 3 bits in a single symbol. The third is HDMI uses 3 pairs for data and gigabit ethernet uses four pairs.


I think it is quite a feat to be able to send HDMI reliably as far as we can with an HDMI cable which is designed for the purpose, let alone Cat 5/6 cable which is not designed for the purpose. I posted a link in one of these threads to an application note from National Semiconductor that states that the closest equivalent to HDMI cable would be Cat 7, which has shields around the individual pairs and the whole cable. If a quality HDMI cable does not work, simply replacing it with a Cat 5/6 cable and dealing with the difference in characteristic impedance isn't going to cut it.


Balun never seemed to me to be an appropriate name for HDMI extenders. They don't connect a balanced line to an unbalanced line.


I think you are referring to something I posted when you mentioned two cable devices that split the TMDS lines between cables. I didn't mean to imply that all, or even most, did this, just that I have seen at least one which did. Obviously this could lead to problems with interpair skew. The real killer, though, IMHO is intrapair skew. The limits are specified in picoseconds. Of course that isn't the only factor affecting performance.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19972783
> 
> 
> I think it is quite a feat to be able to send HDMI reliably as far as we can with an HDMI cable which is designed for the purpose, let alone Cat 5/6 cable which is not designed for the purpose.



amen, brother. I'm pretty impressed by it too (when it works). HDMI v1.3 has a total max bitrate (all TDMS channels combined) of somewhere north of 10Gbits/s. Pretty impressive that I can squeeze that into a single Cat5e cable. Granted I'm "only" running it about 50 ft.


..dane


----------



## limaxray

For the signage application, I may very well go component, but this is more of a personal interest matter since this is the type of thing I usually design for a living and for fun. The cost issue is more a matter of needing a dozen or so runs and that $300+ a pop adds up quickly. While this is more of a side job for a local small business owner on a relatively tight budget, I'd have the same concerns with my usual customers whom I bill well into the 6 figures.


As for datasheets, I'm directly referring to Gefen. While their 'datasheets' are better than the cheap units, they are still comically lacking. I understand this is common for consumer grade kit, but I still find it difficult to take these supposed premium products seriously when they don't include the most basic information that any engineer would expect to see. This lack of professionalism makes me think these products are bogus and designed by clowns - not saying that they are, just that it gives me a lack of confidence in their design and testing methodologies.


As I said earlier, HDMI is absolutely NOT balanced. It uses a differential mode signaling technique to simulate balancing, but it is not actually balanced. Differential signaling and balanced transmission lines are two very different things. Ethernet is balanced and differential. Professional audio is balanced and differential. HDMI is only differential and this is why HDMI cables need all the shielding they have and are so distance handicapped compared to Ethernet with a similar bit clock.


Trust me, if you are properly balanced, receiving EMI is not much of a concern since your CMRR is so high (as the balancing approaches perfection, the CMRR approaches infinity) - radiating EMI is the bigger issue when it comes to passing EMC which is not much of a concern here. This is why I use STP professionally - so my cables don't interfere with other devices, not so other devices don't interfere with my cables.


Don't count the number of conductors in an HDMI cable as that's not applicable here. You can very comfortably fit all of the signals on two cables while maximizing performance. You can fit them all on one cable by transmitting the low speed signals in common mode across the pairs but at some expense.


The other issue is matched impedances. I don't see any ratings on the termination impedances leading me to believe this wasn't taken into consideration. At these lengths and frequencies, reflections become a major issue and become another cause of possible degradation.


The maximum bit clock of HDMI 1.4a is 340 MHz. 10GBase-T is rated up to 500MHz at 100m using 16 levels over Cat6a (although most Cat6 cable exceeds the minimum ratings enough to come close to this requirement). As was pointed out, HDMI is only 2 levels, making it much easier to recover than 10GBase-T. You can not directly compare data rates since Ethernet is bidirectional and full duplex while HDMI is not. The capabilities of modern UTP exceed the requirements of HDMI and that is my point. The limiting factor here are the 'baluns' as I doubt they are properly designed for this application. HDMI is not magical, it is a cheap digital interconnect where low cost and small footprint are more important than cable length and EMI tolerance.


I promise you clock skew is the biggest problem you'll have - with a properly designed transmitter and receiver. Everything else can be mitigated away and clock skew is the hard ceiling you'll eventually hit due to the synchronous nature of HDMI. That of course isn't the issue here - except for the dual cable models where we're talking about inches of difference in cable length. This isn't just some theory, this is a fact of life and is a major design consideration when dealing with such signals. Whoever thought it was a good idea to divide the high speed signals across multiple cables doesn't understand digital signal transmission.


I'm also fairly certain your issue is your equipment and Cat5e runs are being used as a return path for your lights, fans, etc. I see it all the time and is probably the most common cause of such interference. The solution is to isolate your devices somewhere in the loop to prevent unwanted currents traveling through them. With Ethernet, the cables are all magnetically isolated to prevent this. Here, I bet they are not. The next best place (though significantly less ideal) to break this loop is at the outlet using a ground isolator.


I see no reason this can't be done on the cheap using commonly available 10GBase-T components - I've even started looking into it and will be looking into finding an excuse to design my own. I do have oscilloscopes, function generators, and spectrum analyzers at my disposal - maybe if I do decided to give these devices a try and have the time, I can test them out and provide my professional opinion. Until then, I can only provide advice to others based on my experiences in related fields.


----------



## WaycoolJr

Ok. So which is the least expensive single cable kit that is known to work well? I'm only going 50 feet so that shouldn't be a problem. I'd still prefer powered though.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *limaxray* /forum/post/19977351
> 
> 
> The maximum bit clock of HDMI 1.4a is 340 MHz.



Yes, but ten bits are transmitted for every clock. The symbol rate is ten times that.



> Quote:
> Until then, I can only provide advice to others based on my experiences in related fields.



Unfortunately, you don't seem to know enough about HDMI yet to apply your experience aptly. I am sure that you could pick it up fast enough if you wanted to, though.

Here is a short explanation of the problems involved in transmitting HDMI over Cat cables.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *limaxray* /forum/post/19977351
> 
> 
> I see no reason this can't be done on the cheap using commonly available 10GBase-T components - I've even started looking into it and will be looking into finding an excuse to design my own.



No need, Valens has a chip set that they are trying to establish as a standard ( HDBaseT ) that transmits HDMI over a single Cat cable up to 100m. Don't know if that will ever happen. Only a few companies seem to have joined the organization, and consumer devices incorporating the technology are still missing. But some companies, including Gefen, use the chipset in some of their HDMI extenders.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *WaycoolJr* /forum/post/19978498
> 
> 
> Ok. So which is the least expensive single cable kit that is known to work well?



Ah, that is the $64,000 question. Unfortunately there is no clear answer. HDMI performance depends on the cable, all the electronics involved, the bit rate, and the environment. Each of our situations is different. What works for someone else may not work for you.


> Quote:
> I'm only going 50 feet so that shouldn't be a problem.



Apparently you did not read the posts above...


Some trends seem clear. Inexpensive unpowered or line powered devices seem to have a dismal record. Powered two cable devices seem to work for some but not for others. And expensive single cable devices seem to work quite well.


The primary purpose of this thread is to identify combinations that are known to work. So, when you find one, please document everything here.


----------



## cavchameleon

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Colm* 
Yes, but ten bits are transmitted for every clock. The symbol rate is ten times that.



Unfortunately, you don't seem to know enough about HDMI yet to apply your experience aptly. I am sure that you could pick it up fast enough if you wanted to, though.

Here is a short explanation of the problems involved in transmitting HDMI over Cat cables.
Interesting Article Colm. Thanks fore the link!


----------



## audiodane

Since Colm seems to have already answered everyone's recent posts, I'll just add a few notes. Thanks Colm!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/19979060
> 
> 
> No need, Valens has a chip set that they are trying to establish as a standard ( HDBaseT ) that transmits HDMI over a single Cat cable up to 100m. Don't know if that will ever happen. Only a few companies seem to have joined the organization, and consumer devices incorporating the technology are still missing. But some companies, including Gefen, use the chipset in some of their HDMI extenders.



I do wish this would take off. It seems to be the "thought out approach" that custom-installers and enthusiasts alike would faun over. Alas the "best" solutions aren't always what make it main-stream...










The other point worth mentioning here is that Gefen extenders are not all created equal either. I am by FAR no pro on Gefen equipment, but being "this close" to buying some during this journey led me to reading all the forum posts about their equipment and I found far more negative posts than positive ones. I do realize people tend to get online more when there is a problem than when it works the way it should, but the sheer number of negative posts web-wide about Gefen equipment made me look elsewhere.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *partial quote from Colm* /forum/post/19979145
> 
> 
> Unfortunately there is no clear answer. HDMI performance depends on the cable, all the electronics involved, the bit rate, and the environment. Each of our situations is different. What works for someone else may not work for you.
> 
> 
> Some trends seem clear. Inexpensive unpowered or line powered devices seem to have a dismal record. Powered two cable devices seem to work for some but not for others. And expensive single cable devices seem to work quite well.



Interestingly it seems a few people had better luck with powered dual-cable extenders than powered single-cable extenders. Since all we have to go on is their word, there's no way to judge definitively what is the "best" equipment for your situation. The "over-generalized-trend" however is as Colm mentioned-- single extenders seem to work better than dual extenders.


The bottom of the first post is intended to capture the test cases (and their success rates) of those reported to this thread to-date. Have a look there and see if anyone's configuration looks similar to yours. Maybe that can help guide you for the best place to start.


Other than that, just make sure you buy from a company that has a return policy, in case you need to try different solutions before settling on the best approach for your situation. Be aware that many online retailers now charge restocking fees even if returned in mint condition. Sometimes even if still in plastic wrap.


good luck, and report back what you try and how it works out!


cheers,

..dane


----------



## audiodane

Just as a quick note ... Since the thread is getting long enough now that people aren't reading through all of it -- I have reformatted the first post of the thread hopefully to be more readable and help better guide newcomers to our corner of the site.


If a different organization would be better, feel free to drop me a message .


..dane


----------



## cavchameleon

Audiodane,


Great compilation! Maybe you may want to re-name the thread as just HDMI over Cat5/Cat6? Just a thought - I still found this thread, but the last part with 'video/fan etc." almost threw me off.


Good thread BTW!!! And, lots of great info from Colm. I'll post once I get and extender (was doing my research and this thread is great for that).


Thanks,

Ray


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cavchameleon* /forum/post/19988171
> 
> 
> Audiodane,
> 
> 
> Great compilation! Maybe you may want to re-name the thread as just HDMI over Cat5/Cat6? Just a thought - I still found this thread, but the last part with 'video/fan etc." almost threw me off.
> 
> 
> Good thread BTW!!! And, lots of great info from Colm. I'll post once I get and extender (was doing my research and this thread is great for that).
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ray



Tee hee hee, this thread has already been renamed two or three times, as it has evolved to what it is today.







Most people find this thread because they are actually having problems with fans, A/C units, etc. So it helps to have that in the title. That said, feel free to recommend something different. It can't be anything longer than it already is ..










cheers,

..dane


----------



## cavchameleon

^^^ Ahhh, thanks for clearing it up - I'm new to this thread. Keep it as is then if people are using those words in the search.


Keep this thread up! I think it'll get a lot more traffic in the future when folks move over to projectors (or want to move their equipment out of the movie room).


Thanks,

Ray


----------



## calimark

I had this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?t=1307318# 


and it didnt work past 720P.


I bought this like most other people:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=6532 


and I'm good to go. I havent tested 1080p/24 yet, everything else is good. it is as advertised HDMI 1.2a and does not support 'deep color'


----------



## bletour

Hey all,


So I finally tried to jump into this technology as well. I've been watching this thread and technology for months hoping that these solutions would solve my issues as well. Jump to the summary if you just want the raw data. I figured I would give my system details for completeness.I have a basement distribution setup with dual Russound CAV6.6 units, Scientific Atlanta cable boxes (Comcast), Sony Blu-Ray changer and Roku media streamer. Most rooms are wired with a single RG-6 and single Cat 5E (done before I purchased the house or there would have been more). Up to this point I have been using the CAV composite (yuck ) output to distribute to most rooms except the family room where there is component. So I have been watching this technology and also HDMI over single coax as options.I picked my longest run from the basement at ~90FT of CAT5e as my test port. This means to get to this location would be Source HDMI->Balun->Cat5e/6 15ft->Punch down panel->~90Ft Cat5e->Wall plate->2 Ft Cat5e/6->Balun->HDMI->TV. So this is a fairly tough run for many of the devices that list 100-150Ft for 1080P. Especially due to loss with the punch down/wall plate connections. Due to this I decided to go with HDBaseT solution since it is digital and good for 100M (330 Ft). I looked around and picked the Conversions Technology CTHMDI-100E since others had luck with the CT60 series analog unit.

*SUMMARY*
Unit: Conversions Technologies CTHDMI-100E (HDBaseT based)
Runs: ~110Ft Cat5e with punch down panel and wall plate connections at ends
Display Device: Samsung LN46C630


Source: Sony BDP-CX960 Blu-Ray Changer

Results: *Success* at full 1080P with HDCP


Source: Roku XD|S Media Streamer

Results: *Success* at full 1080P without HDCP (Roku didn't request it)


Source: Scientific Atlanta 4250HD Cable Box (Comcast)

Results: *Failed* to negotiate HDCP (CTHDMI displayed HDCP enabled but cable box claimed no HDCP support)


Source: Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR Cable Box (Comcast)

Results: *Failed* to negotiate HDCP (CTHDMI displayed HDCP enabled but cable box claimed no HDCP support)


Both cable boxes work perfectly directly connected to the display. I even went into the diagnostic screen on the SA box and watched the HDCP status screen. When plugged into the CT HDMI100E units it would switch to unknown display type and disable output. Once connected to TV it would immediately switch back to authorized within seconds.


So...in general I was impressed with the ease at which this unit dealt with a tough connection/distance run BUT obviously there is an incompatibility with the HDCP implementation on the SA boxes and this unit. I have put a request into CT support to see what they say but I assume it will be a no go. May try a CT60 unit as a replacement.



--Bill


----------



## audiodane

Sorry, busy busy at work the past two weeks... starting to slow down again now.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *calimark* /forum/post/20009775
> 
> 
> I had this:
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?t=1307318#
> 
> 
> and it didnt work past 720P.
> 
> 
> I bought this like most other people:
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?p_id=6532
> 
> 
> and I'm good to go. I havent tested 1080p/24 yet, everything else is good. it is as advertised HDMI 1.2a and does not support 'deep color'



Thanks for the update. I will update the original post later (no time tonight). I recommend you go ahead and try to push it as hard as you can (1080p60, etc) while also cycling things like ceiling fans, washing machines, Air conditioning units, etc. For some the monoprice device you purchased work great. For others (like myself), the link is dropped momentarily when A/C glitches occur. Hopefully the one you picked will work flawlessly for you!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bletour* /forum/post/20013661
> 
> 
> I picked my longest run from the basement at ~90FT of CAT5e as my test port. This means to get to this location would be Source HDMI->Balun->Cat5e/6 15ft->Punch down panel->~90Ft Cat5e->Wall plate->2 Ft Cat5e/6->Balun->HDMI->TV. So this is a fairly tough run for many of the devices that list 100-150Ft for 1080P. Especially due to loss with the punch down/wall plate connections. Due to this I decided to go with HDBaseT solution since it is digital and good for 100M (330 Ft). I looked around and picked the Conversions Technology CTHMDI-100E since others had luck with the CT60 series analog unit.



Wow Bill, thanks for the detailed post. You've got quite a setup there. A few points to note:


- I'm surprised that you are running your connections through so many patch panels/connectors. I imagine you've seen all the suggestions elsewhere on the interweb that any inline-coupler/connector is a bad idea. Is there any possible way you can run a single cable all that way and retest? It would be an interesting datapoint.


- The fact that some devices work and some do not does not surprise me at all, based on the way this thread has progressed. The monoprice 4x2 swtich seems to work well for many people. Have you considered trying it between one of your problem devices and the HDMI extender? It could be that the cableboxes don't have a "good enough" HDMI output to properly drive your extender. Such an idea seems quiet extremely silly ("a digital output is a digital output, right?" .. apparently not?), but that's the reality of what I've found in my testing.


I'll update the first post later with your to-date testing as well. thank you for the submission!


..dane


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bletour* /forum/post/20013661
> 
> 
> ...there is an incompatibility with the HDCP implementation on the SA boxes and this unit.



The question is, is the problem in the extender, the cable boxes, or both? FWIW some source devices don't handle HDCP with repeaters well. And cable boxes in general have a dismal record as far as HDMI goes to start with.


----------



## bletour




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/20023915
> 
> 
> 
> - I'm surprised that you are running your connections through so many patch panels/connectors. I imagine you've seen all the suggestions elsewhere on the interweb that any inline-coupler/connector is a bad idea. Is there any possible way you can run a single cable all that way and retest? It would be an interesting datapoint.
> 
> 
> - The fact that some devices work and some do not does not surprise me at all, based on the way this thread has progressed. The monoprice 4x2 swtich seems to work well for many people. Have you considered trying it between one of your problem devices and the HDMI extender? It could be that the cableboxes don't have a "good enough" HDMI output to properly drive your extender. Such an idea seems quiet extremely silly ("a digital output is a digital output, right?" .. apparently not?), but that's the reality of what I've found in my testing.
> 
> 
> ..dane



I did try a single cable run as well. I actually hauled the cable box, a single 6Ft Cat6, and both Extender pieces to the TV. Still no such luck. So the cable box had a 3Ft HDMI to extender -> 6 Ft Cat6 -> extender and then 3Ft HDMI with the same results. So that didn't work.


From reading posts online on these SA cable boxes the HDMI seems to be an issue in general for a lot of people. Many have issues if they try to put the HDMI through their AV Receiver to switch as well. I am pretty certain they are slightly "non-compliant" and although they work with the TV directly the don't like the HDCP going through the extender.


Putting another switch in the middle is possible... I can try that.


--Bill


----------



## bletour




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/20024353
> 
> 
> The question is, is the problem in the extender, the cable boxes, or both? FWIW some source devices don't handle HDCP with repeaters well. And cable boxes in general have a dismal record as far as HDMI goes to start with.



That is the $1000 question. According to many online posts these SA boxes have issues switching through things like receivers as well so I am leaning towards them being the issue. Especially since the extender worked so well with the Sony Blu-Ray and Roku. I can't 100% confirm it but the cable box is my gut feeling.

I have contacted Comcast about any possible firmware upgrades for the cable boxes or a possible swap out with a newer model (if available). I will see what they say.
--Bill


----------



## theOriginalGuru

i'm relatively new here, but thought I'd report my success with the Mediabridge - Dual-Cat5e HDMI Extender; got it for $38 on Amazon.


Source: Cox Communications CableTV HD-DVR

Test Setup: HD-DVR -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat5e cable (slightly different lengths due to a crimping failure on one) -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 6' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.


Video Resolutions tested: 1080i,720p

Status: success/ok

Audio: success/ok (i saw some reports of audio not working, so i wanted to mention this)


Also tested the following for 1080p:


Source: Samsung BD-P1600 blu-ray player

Test Setup: Blu-Ray player -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat5e cable (slightly different lengths due to a crimping failure on one) -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 6' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.


Video Resolutions tested: 1080p

Status: success/ok

Audio: success/ok


I'm in the middle of re-building my theater setup/room and so before I put this stuff inside the wall, i've been testing it. So far, I'm very satisfied with this Mediabridge solution as it solves an issue I was having with HDMI cables getting through a corner of a wall. I actually still need to test it with the receiver which is what will eventually be connected to the TV directly.


I had a cat5e issue where one of the cables wasn't giving me 1Gbps transfer speeds (about 125MBytes/sec if your testing software tells you in bytes instead of bits, but I'm usually happy if I see 110MBytes-120MBytes/sec) when I tested the cable on the computer network. the issue was narrowed down to a bad crimp in one of the RJ-45 connectors. Once i cut that off and crimped on a new connector the issue went away completely. This is why one of my cat5e 14' cables is about 1 inch shorter than the other. The tiny length difference hasn't shown any issues. This is just for testing right now as I had a spool of cat5e laying around. Ultimately, I'll be using cat6 cable as I don't want to cut open the drywall again once i put the cable in the walls.


----------



## theOriginalGuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theOriginalGuru* /forum/post/20079814
> 
> 
> i'm relatively new here, but thought I'd report my success with the Mediabridge - Dual-Cat5e HDMI Extender; got it for $38 on Amazon.
> 
> 
> Source: Cox Communications CableTV HD-DVR
> 
> Test Setup: HD-DVR -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat5e cable (slightly different lengths due to a crimping failure on one) -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 6' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.
> 
> 
> Video Resolutions tested: 1080i,720p
> 
> Status: success/ok
> 
> Audio: success/ok (i saw some reports of audio not working, so i wanted to mention this)
> 
> 
> Also tested the following for 1080p:
> 
> 
> Source: Samsung BD-P1600 blu-ray player
> 
> Test Setup: Blu-Ray player -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat5e cable (slightly different lengths due to a crimping failure on one) -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 6' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.
> 
> 
> Video Resolutions tested: 1080p
> 
> Status: success/ok
> 
> Audio: success/ok
> 
> 
> I'm in the middle of re-building my theater setup/room and so before I put this stuff inside the wall, i've been testing it. So far, I'm very satisfied with this Mediabridge solution as it solves an issue I was having with HDMI cables getting through a corner of a wall. I actually still need to test it with the receiver which is what will eventually be connected to the TV directly.
> 
> 
> I had a cat5e issue where one of the cables wasn't giving me 1Gbps transfer speeds (about 125MBytes/sec if your testing software tells you in bytes instead of bits, but I'm usually happy if I see 110MBytes-120MBytes/sec) when I tested the cable on the computer network. the issue was narrowed down to a bad crimp in one of the RJ-45 connectors. Once i cut that off and crimped on a new connector the issue went away completely. This is why one of my cat5e 14' cables is about 1 inch shorter than the other. The tiny length difference hasn't shown any issues. This is just for testing right now as I had a spool of cat5e laying around. Ultimately, I'll be using cat6 cable as I don't want to cut open the drywall again once i put the cable in the walls.



just wanted to follow up on this with some disappointing news. I finally got around to test the setup with my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR707) with this Mediabridge HDMI extender, a lot of stuff stopped working. I even upgraded to some high quality cat6 of equal length (14ft) and still no go. Here's the specific setup:


Source: Cox DVR, Samsung BD-P1600

Test Setup: Onkyo TX-SR707 -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat6 cable -> Mediabridge HDMI/cat5e receiver -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 3' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.


My Cox DVR, BD-P1600 blu-ray player are connected to the TX-SR707. Cox outputs 1080i, but I get nothing on the screen. When I play a blu-ray movie, it only outputs 480/p. When I play a DVD in the blu-ray player, it works fine (480p). Using passthru video on the TX-SR707, but even when I tried to set the output manually, doesn't work.


When I take the TX-SR707 out of the picture, i get 1080/p out of the blu-ray no problem. Anyone think it's worth trying cat6a STP instead? Or is there just something between the Mediabridge extender and the TX-SR707 that just doesn't want to work regardless of cable quality?


----------



## bletour

Quote:

Originally Posted by *theOriginalGuru* 
My Cox DVR, BD-P1600 blu-ray player are connected to the TX-SR707. Cox outputs 1080i, but I get nothing on the screen. When I play a blu-ray movie, it only outputs 480/p. When I play a DVD in the blu-ray player, it works fine (480p). Using passthru video on the TX-SR707, but even when I tried to set the output manually, doesn't work.


When I take the TX-SR707 out of the picture, i get 1080/p out of the blu-ray no problem. Anyone think it's worth trying cat6a STP instead? Or is there just something between the Mediabridge extender and the TX-SR707 that just doesn't want to work regardless of cable quality?
I would lean towards something between the Mediabridge and the TX-SR707. I know there is some sort of HDCP passthrough that needs to be used when switching through a receiver and maybe the Mediabridge doesn't like that bit set and HD is getting rejected.


Only my best guess but it doesn't sound like a distance issue to me.


--Bill


----------



## theOriginalGuru

Quote:

Originally Posted by *bletour* 
I would lean towards something between the Mediabridge and the TX-SR707. I know there is some sort of HDCP passthrough that needs to be used when switching through a receiver and maybe the Mediabridge doesn't like that bit set and HD is getting rejected.


Only my best guess but it doesn't sound like a distance issue to me.


--Bill
I tend to agree that the problem is probably with the mediabridge... they were kind enough to send me another one to try out, but i'm not 100% hopeful about it. their support by the way has been very friendly and professional; no hassle at all.


Although, doesn't the blu-ray player to TV connection require HDCP too? that worked with the mediabridge w/o the receiver... so, i can't understand why it won't work now with the TX-SR707 in between... it does seem to be a "HD" related thing as 480/p works....


----------



## jc8587

Looks like the Monoprice extenders I am running finally bit the dust. I attribute the failure due to extreme heating of the receiving unit. It is powered, unlike the sending unit, and it was very very hot to the touch. I'll send it back and get another pair. My plan is to either unplug when not in use (it has been plugged in since I posted in this thread originally) or devise a simple fan/heatsink for the device.


I'll post more when I get time to work on it.


Thanks!


-Chris


----------



## variant

What would be the best(cheapest) solution to run 1080p and 2.1 audio around 75 feet?


----------



## shaggy244

I am using a J-tech hdmi extender using cat7 cable. The cable is 25' long and the two hdmi cables on each end are 3' mediabridge hdmi over ehternet cable. I am connecting a DVDO edge (LG Blueray connected) to a Knoll HDP-1200 projector. When entering into the EDGE settings, it does not allow me to access the deep color output settings. Has anyone used this hdmi extender, and what exactly are the implications of the Edge problems? THANKS FOR ANY HELP.... I originally started with a 50' Monster HDMI cable but had connection problems.


----------



## shaggy244

I am actually going to use 50' cat7 sstp cable. My hopes are to create a system which allows quality equal to the use of a short run HDMI cable rated at 10.2 Gps...Is that even possible? The extender uses 2 cat 7 cable and has a 5v power adapter for the receiver. Thanks again


I realize that this info may be found elsewhere in the myriad of threads, but was hoping you guys would allow me this one indiscretion since I need to make a decision soon on additional equipment which I might have to buy.


----------



## pumori

So finished up my basement remodel and two long HDMI runs that worked fine on testing prior to putting up the drywall aren't working. Luckily I had also run CAT6 to all locations (just in case) as well as conduit. Purchased 2 NXG adapters through Amazon. These are HDMI over a single CAT6 cable.


- Source-end: Comcast cable box, OPPO BDP-83

- CatX Adapter: NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 (Amazon, $84.99)

- CatX Cables: Single cable runs (~50 foot and ~35 foot) of CAT6 (UTP, solid-core, Monoprice)

- Far-end: Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector or (old) Viewsonic N3250W LCD

- Resolution(s) tested: 720p, 1080i, 1080p60, 1080p24

- Status: Perfect video, no dropouts


Note that this also seems to work just fine running through the Monoprice 4X4 True Matrix HDMI 1.3a Powered Switch. No HDCP handshake issues.


----------



## david_nc

I'd just like to add an update about my setup with dual cable passive extenders. They're still working fine. Amazon screwed up twice (the first time in all the orders I've placed with them) and sent Cat5e instead of Cat6 patch cords (molded connectors). Either way, they work fine.


To recount, I have a cheapo iSymphony 26" 720p TV in the kitchen connected via HDMI over the Monoprice extenders from Amazon. The source is a Dish 722k DVR, and the cables are 50' long. I still have no issues whatsoever. I did have an occasional problem when a rechargeable vacuum was plugged or unplugged into the same power strip as the TV, but connecting the TV directly into the outlet (instead of the strip) took care of the problem. If I had it to do again, I'd still go this route, as it was extremely cheap and works perfectly for me.


----------



## jrolmstd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pumori* /forum/post/20214120
> 
> 
> So finished up my basement remodel and two long HDMI runs that worked fine on testing prior to putting up the drywall aren't working. Luckily I had also run CAT6 to all locations (just in case) as well as conduit. Purchased 2 NXG adapters through Amazon. These are HDMI over a single CAT6 cable.
> 
> 
> - Source-end: Comcast cable box, OPPO BDP-83
> 
> - CatX Adapter: NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 (Amazon, $84.99)
> 
> - CatX Cables: Single cable runs (~50 foot and ~35 foot) of CAT6 (UTP, solid-core, Monoprice)
> 
> - Far-end: Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector or (old) Viewsonic N3250W LCD
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 720p, 1080i, 1080p60, 1080p24
> 
> - Status: Perfect video, no dropouts
> 
> 
> Note that this also seems to work just fine running through the Monoprice 4X4 True Matrix HDMI 1.3a Powered Switch. No HDCP handshake issues.



Thanks for the report on your success. I do have a question about the NX-HDEXT160-1, all the images of it I can find show two units, one input and one output but only the output has hdmi connection showing. Is it just a bad product image? I assume both the input and output units would need a hdmi connection for this to work or am I missing something....


thanks again.


----------



## IGO2XS

Have any of you guys had any experience with the Snap AV single cat 5e hdmi extender? I have read good things about the product but cannot find a source to purchase one. They do not allow any of their dealers to advertise/sell online. They primarily sell their products to "integrators". I tried to purchase one of their single cat 5e extenders locally but the dealer would not sell to me without providing the installation of the product at an additional fee. Anyone know of any of our members who are Snap AV dealers?


----------



## pumori

jrolmstd-


Both the input and output units have HDMI, a CAT5/6 connector and power inputs with a wall wart.


The more expensive unit that I tried ($350-400 vs the $85 NXG) had a power input only on the transmitting end. Although it was able to achieve HDCP sync the display colors were completey messed up and rolled from bottom to top. Returned that unit.


Still working fine with the NXG units. I've watched a number of 1080p movies on the projector and haven't noticed a single issue.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

I have had excellent results with the Audio Control BVHD-20 with 3D, 1080p/60, audio back channel, etc. The units come with Cat6 terminators.


----------



## theOriginalGuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theOriginalGuru* /forum/post/20123111
> 
> 
> just wanted to follow up on this with some disappointing news. I finally got around to test the setup with my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR707) with this Mediabridge HDMI extender, a lot of stuff stopped working. I even upgraded to some high quality cat6 of equal length (14ft) and still no go. Here's the specific setup:
> 
> 
> Source: Cox DVR, Samsung BD-P1600
> 
> Test Setup: Onkyo TX-SR707 -> 6' HDMI cable -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> Mediabridge HDMI/Cat5e sender -> 2x 14' of cat6 cable -> Mediabridge HDMI/cat5e receiver -> HDMI keystone (monoprice) -> 3' HDMI cable -> Samsung UN55B6000 TV.
> 
> 
> My Cox DVR, BD-P1600 blu-ray player are connected to the TX-SR707. Cox outputs 1080i, but I get nothing on the screen. When I play a blu-ray movie, it only outputs 480/p. When I play a DVD in the blu-ray player, it works fine (480p). Using passthru video on the TX-SR707, but even when I tried to set the output manually, doesn't work.
> 
> 
> When I take the TX-SR707 out of the picture, i get 1080/p out of the blu-ray no problem. Anyone think it's worth trying cat6a STP instead? Or is there just something between the Mediabridge extender and the TX-SR707 that just doesn't want to work regardless of cable quality?



Just another follow-up to my mediabridge problems. Mediabridge was kind enough to send me a 2nd unit, but unfortunately, it showed the same exact problems, so I don't think i have a defective one; it's a design issue I think.


I took my mediabridge to a friends house who has a Sony receiver and tried it with his Sony receiver and had the exact same issue. When he tried using it between his blu-ray player and HDTV, it worked fine but with the receiver in between it didn't work at all. He's an EE and told me he suspects there's some circuitry in the sender unit that is drawing power from the 5VDC line in the HDMI and that some how the receiver isn't providing enough voltage or power for the sender unit to work properly.


Taking his suspicion as a hint, further google searches seem to reveal that a lot of these "passive" HDMI over cat5/6 extenders seem to have a lot of trouble with receivers (several brands, but Onkyo seem to get the most mention). After reading through several web pages about this issue, i came across this:

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-4222...4977409&sr=8-1 


And based on the reviews on Amazon, it seems this little thing solved the problem for several folks who were having problems with HDMI-over-cat5/6 extenders and their receivers. So, I just ordered one and hope that it will resolve my issue too... I'll follow up to confirm.


----------



## theOriginalGuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *theOriginalGuru* /forum/post/20413601
> 
> 
> Just another follow-up to my mediabridge problems. Mediabridge was kind enough to send me a 2nd unit, but unfortunately, it showed the same exact problems, so I don't think i have a defective one; it's a design issue I think.
> 
> 
> I took my mediabridge to a friends house who has a Sony receiver and tried it with his Sony receiver and had the exact same issue. When he tried using it between his blu-ray player and HDTV, it worked fine but with the receiver in between it didn't work at all. He's an EE and told me he suspects there's some circuitry in the sender unit that is drawing power from the 5VDC line in the HDMI and that some how the receiver isn't providing enough voltage or power for the sender unit to work properly.
> 
> 
> Taking his suspicion as a hint, further google searches seem to reveal that a lot of these "passive" HDMI over cat5/6 extenders seem to have a lot of trouble with receivers (several brands, but Onkyo seem to get the most mention). After reading through several web pages about this issue, i came across this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-4222...4977409&sr=8-1
> 
> 
> And based on the reviews on Amazon, it seems this little thing solved the problem for several folks who were having problems with HDMI-over-cat5/6 extenders and their receivers. So, I just ordered one and hope that it will resolve my issue too... I'll follow up to confirm.



i wanted to follow up here... i got the RapidRun Voltage inserter linked above, (SKU 42223 from Cables 2 Go in case the link breaks) and sure enough, it fixed my problems with the mediabridge extender!!!!


So, it seems the problem with the Mediabridge extender not working in some situations is due to not getting enough power from the source device the 'sender' unit is connected to. With the voltage inserter, it seems to work perfectly!


Of course, this adds to the cost of making the mediabridge work, but i've seen the mediabridge for $17 onsale, and the voltage inserter was about $20 so for $37 total, it's still not a bad deal. The other advantage of this is that it allows for easier in-wall installation/use. Other "powered HDMI over cat5/6 extenders" require that you run a power adapter to it. Since the "voltage inserter" is plugged in at the receiver end (or whatever source device), you can still use the mediabridge in-wall without having to figure out how to get power to it.


Hopefully this helps anyone who's looking to use the mediabridge extender or has had problems using it in the past. Another possibility is to use a powered HDMI splitter if you're going to be splitting the signal and sending it to multiple displays. I think as long as the powered splitter provides enough power to the Mediabridge "sender" unit, it should allow it to work.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/20313312
> 
> 
> I have had excellent results with the Audio Control BVHD-20 with 3D, 1080p/60, audio back channel, etc. The units come with Cat6 terminators.



David, sorry but there's just too little information here for me to post your results... can you provide some more details?


- Source-end: ?

- CatX Cables: ?

- Far-end: ?

- Resolution(s) tested: ?


thanks,

..dane


----------



## audiodane

I have updated the first post with everything up to today (15 May 2011). Thanks to theOriginalGuru for sending me a PM requesting me to update this thread once more. Things have been extremely busy both at work and home and it's the first time in many months I've even logged in to AVS. Sorry for the delay!


Some good information has been added since my last update (Feb). For what it's worth, regarding the RapidRun 5V Voltage Inserter, that solution did NOT work for me with my DVDO Edge video processor based source configuration. I am so glad that someone has found a configuration where it DOES seem to help (dramatically I might add).


Also for what it's worth, I may be selling both my DVDO Edge and my Marantz SR8001 combination and try to upgrade to an SR6005 or hopefully SR7005 instead. Simplifies the setup and removes a heat-source, both of which are good things.










It might again be a while before I get back here next. Feel free to drop me another PM when this thread gets to a point of needing attention.







I get email notification of PMs so I'll get your notification even without logging in.


thanks again, and good luck everyone!

..dane


----------



## vullcan

I purchased one of the products someone had success with in this thread that didnt look too cheap (metal housing, well made, etc) and was hoping for the best, it was the NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1.


I am getting great video at 1080p but the audio is only stereo. I have browsed the internet and it seems this is a common problem with hdmi over ethernet extenders. Not having full bitstream multi-channel audio kills this for me, as I only got it to watch blu-rays on my projector which is not located near my AV rack that I stream movies from.


Quite disappointing from a $100 after shipping product.


Does anyone know of any devices in this thread that certainly support 1080p and multi-channel audio?


----------



## audiodane

Just curious, why do you need a full bitstream going to your projector? I'm assuming your BDP routes through a receiver first, then on to your projector, right? In which case you don't really need any audio at all in the video stream...?


..dane


----------



## vullcan

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, my receiver is in the same room as the projector & speakers, but my media servers and players are downstairs in another room. I am plugging the receiving end of this balun into my Onyko.


----------



## Colm

Quote:

Originally Posted by *vullcan* 
Does anyone know of any devices in this thread that certainly support 1080p and multi-channel audio?
They all support multi-channel audio if the source sends it. The question you should be asking is why is the source not sending multi-channel audio. What the source sends depends on the capabilities of the source, and the capabilities of the sink as encoded in the E-EDID. One way of force it to work, assuming both the source and the sink support multi-channel audio, might be to use something like the Gefen HDMI Detective to ensure the E-EDID gets through to the source unmangled.


----------



## vullcan

That sounds like a good idea but I would hate to spend another $100 and add another link to my chain that could fail or will have to be upgraded later (if I dont have to).


Your talk about the E-EDID got me thinking and I discovered the source is seeing "SH4241-1" as the device, which when googled returns a Ben-Q projector.


I do not have a BenQ projector, and when I bypass the NXG extender and plug my reciever directly in I see the correct device, my EPSON projector.


I have tried setting the receiver to not pass through the HDMI E-EDID of the projector but this does not seem to matter.


Just plugging the Transmitter portion of the device in without the cat6 cable connected still shows the "SH4241-1" as being active and connected, leading me to believe NXG somehow programmed this E-EDID into their transmitter device and is not allowing other E-EDID's behind the device to pass through.


I wonder if I can simply fix this by using another product instead of adding that E-EDID spoofer device into my chain?


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vullcan* /forum/post/20457520
> 
> 
> I wonder if I can simply fix this by using another product instead of adding that E-EDID spoofer device into my chain?



It is worth a try. FWIW the way data comes back from the sink to source seems to be a considerable source of problems with extenders.


----------



## vullcan

I tried a cheap monoprice extender but that didnt work at all!


Thinking that I did have a quality $100 extender on my hands, (just with a poor EDID design flaw) I decided to give the GEFEN detective plus a try and after 30 minutes of fiddling I was able to get it to work!


Cloning the Onkyo RX-A700 with Epson 8350 projector plugged in (that works fine when plugging my nvidia gtx480 graphics card directly into the reciever) did not work. It showed up in windows like it normally does as Epson-PJ1 but no audio or video when switching to that display.


I then tried the dip switch settings on the detective and using setting #5 (the one for 1080p, 8 channel PCM / DTS / AC3) only worked up to 1080i, there was no option for 1080p in the dropdown! Amusingly it did have the audio portion working fine so for the first time in weeks I sat there in darkness and played a multi-channel audio track.


Just when I was about to give up I thought, what if I can clone the Onkyo with no display plugged into it?


Sure enough, my device now shows up in windows as a "RX-A700" and while the native res is 1080i, it did have the option for 1080p and it works flawlessly with up-to 7.1 sound in the sound options menu.


It sucks having to have this huge chain of devices, but it sure beats a 80 foot HDMI run that would sometimes lose signal.


I would also like to note that there is no perceptible lag induced that would deter gaming.


Perhaps you could update the first page to note that the NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 does work for 1080p, but has a programmed EDID for stereo sound.


After talking to NXG via email, they were not aware of the issue, however they did note that most customers use it to send video to a projector so I can understand it might have been overlooked during the design of the device, and why they chose to use a EDID from a popular projector.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vullcan* /forum/post/20466604
> 
> 
> ...a poor EDID design flaw...



I'll say! An extender is a HDMI repeater. HDMI repeaters are supposed to present the capabilities of the downstream sink to the source.


----------



## vullcan

I thought who would pay $300-600 for an HDMI extender (especially a cat5 version) when these cat 6 single cable extenders can be had for less than $100...


you get what you pay for?


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vullcan* /forum/post/20466604
> 
> 
> Perhaps you could update the first page to note that the NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 does work for 1080p, but has a programmed EDID for stereo sound.



First post updated with a notation referencing these posts. Thank you vullcan for the update and all your hard work to determine the root cause and workaround!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *vullcan* /forum/post/20467300
> 
> 
> I thought who would pay $300-600 for an HDMI extender (especially a cat5 version) when these cat 6 single cable extenders can be had for less than $100...
> 
> 
> you get what you pay for?



There are the occasional bucks of this trend (Outlaw Audio and Oppo Digital being two examples) who offer a much greater bang-per-buck, but in general the rule usually applies. I imagine however for most people (myself included) the "long-haul" portion of the HDMI chain is after the receiver, so stereo audio is just fine.


I'm sorry you got bit by a seemingly simple design flaw; have you recommended they change their EDID moving forward?


..dane


----------



## H(A&T)

Anybody have any experience with Audio Authority HMX-244 4x4 HDMI Matrix over Cat5


I only found one thread referring to it but nobody that had any thoughts on it.



Or Any other recommendations for a 4x4 HDMI Matrix with Cat5 outputs ?


Thanks!


----------



## <><




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *H(A&T)* /forum/post/20682178
> 
> 
> Anybody have any experience with Audio Authority HMX-244 4x4 HDMI Matrix over Cat5
> 
> 
> I only found one thread referring to it but nobody that had any thoughts on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Or Any other recommendations for a 4x4 HDMI Matrix with Cat5 outputs ?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Hey,


I've been using the Octava 4x4 HDMI/Ethernet Matrix Switch for about 2 years now with no issues at all (although their prices seemed to have jumped from the time I purchased).


My longest run is about 90-100ft and it works well. The HDMI receivers are connected directly to my TV (so only 2.0 audio), but am sending 1080p video to all sources w/o any issues.


Edit: Looking at the Audio Authority unit you posted, it does look very nice, especially the receiver units with the ability to change inputs directly from the unit itself and with it's own remote...the price is a lot better as well.


Take Care


----------



## N3W813

#1

- Source-end: Motorola DCH3200 HD Cable Box

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender 

- CatX Cables: Monoprice 100' CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sony 60A3000 LCD RPTV

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080i with 2-channel audio

- Status: *no dropouts experienced*


#2

- Source-end: HTPC, Nvidia GT240

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender 

- CatX Cables: 2x Monoprice 100' CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sony 60A3000 LCD RPTV

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080p24, 1080p60; with 2-channel audio

- Status: *has intermittent dropouts @60p, no issues @24p*


I'm getting a replacement unit from Monoprice to see if it is the unit itself. May have to buy a higher quality extender for 1080p60 to work without issues over 100'.


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N3W813* /forum/post/20738692
> 
> 
> CatX Cables: Monoprice 100' CAT6 UTP patch cables



At 100 feet you will see a marked improvement with solid core cables when attempting 1080p/60hz. Skin effect is more apparent at longer distances. I'm not aware of anywhere that sells these cables already terminated, but custom patch cables made from bulk (ie 1000ft spool) solid core is an option with some retailers.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...#specification 

UTP 24AWG

4 Twisted Pairs with PE Divider

**Stranded 568B**

EIA/TIA TSB-40A ETL Verified

Contact Gold Plating 50u"

Molded Strain Relief

Category 6

550mhz

Rohs Compliant

UL listed

CSA Listed

CMG


----------



## mfeferman

I'm about to pull the trigger on getting a component matrix switch (thinking HDR44kt), since I'm not convinced that HDMI is 100% reliable.


Regardless, if I were to go HDMI, I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cat6 UTP would be better than what I ran throughout my house (CAT6A SSTP). If so, why?


Also, other than the HDR44KT, is there a better (spelled cheaper) solution out there, where I can also push/receive audio and IR?


I really wish the HDMI over IP stuff worked...and was affordable.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mfeferman* /forum/post/20766162
> 
> 
> ...Cat6 UTP would be better than what I ran throughout my house (CAT6A SSTP). If so, why?



Actually, the equivalent of HDMI cable would be Cat 7. Cat 6a would be a good second choice. Maybe it is because extenders don't have grounded jacks. Maybe the increased capacitance of a shielded cable. But ungrounded Cat 6a will likely work just like Cat 6.


> Quote:
> I really wish the HDMI over IP stuff...(



There is no true HDMI over IP. Every product uses compression. You would need a minimum of a 10Gb ethernet link for uncompressed HDMI.


----------



## mfeferman

I know Jautor will respond sooner or later (Hi Jeff!), but I'm wondering, is component is still the way to go, given the headaches with HDMI?


Now I just have to figure out how to cut all those darn blue electrical boxes out of my new walls, thinking I was going to save some money...


----------



## markrubin

slightly OT but I found an alternaive solution to transmitting HDMI over CAT5:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


I have not done range testing yet but it seems to work well


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mfeferman* /forum/post/20766162
> 
> 
> ...Regardless, if I were to go HDMI, I seem to remember reading somewhere that Cat6 UTP would be better than what I ran throughout my house (CAT6A SSTP). If so, why?...



In house testing at work has shown the following to be problematic for HDMI/DVI over CAT cable extenders:


1) stranded UTP at > 75ft (for 1080p/60)

2) small wire guages like 28 awg

3) transmission ratings 
4) CATx flat wire

5) poorly terminated cables

6) coiled up cable kinked due to pulling during install

7) PC's with Display Port to HDMI adapters (DP-HDMI)

I can't remember off hand if twisted foil pairs are a problem with LVDS signals like they are with analog RGB video due to increased capacitance. A BERT test will usually weed out most cable problems.

YMMV as they say, but I've found the above to be true more often than not.


----------



## dmg79

First of all I want to says thanks to the OP for putting together this thread. I kept getting dropouts everytime anything powered up. I thought I was crazy for the longest time because I couldn't figure out what was causing the issue.


Here's a summary


#1

- Source-end: Sony STR-910

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice Wall plates

- CatX Cables: CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sharp Aquos D62

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080p

- Status: dropouts experienced anytime hoodfan or AC powered up and randomly with wall switches


#2

- Source-end: Denon AVR 891

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice Wall plates

- CatX Cables: CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sharp Aquos D62

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080p

- Status: dropouts experienced anytime hoodfan or AC powered up and randomly with wall switches


#3

- Source-end: Denon AVR 891

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice Wall plates with voltage inserter (tried at source and receiver ends)

- CatX Cables: CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sharp Aquos D62

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080p

- Status: dropouts experienced anytime hoodfan or AC powered up and randomly with wall switches


#4

- Source-end: Denon AVR 891

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender (powered extender)

- CatX Cables: CAT6 UTP patch cables

- Far-end: Sharp Aquos D62

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080p

- Status: no dropouts


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *N3W813* /forum/post/20738692
> 
> 
> #1
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 1080i with 2-channel audio
> 
> - Status: *no dropouts experienced*
> 
> 
> #2
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 1080p24, 1080p60; with 2-channel audio
> 
> - Status: *has intermittent dropouts @60p, no issues @24p*
> 
> 
> I'm getting a replacement unit from Monoprice to see if it is the unit itself. May have to buy a higher quality extender for 1080p60 to work without issues over 100'.



Good time for the August public service reminder--


Most all extenders will work at 1080i60 and many also at 1080p24 without issue. Simply put- the data rate is *HALF* that of a 1080p60 signal. DOUBLING the data rate for full 1080p60 is a pretty daunting task. If anyone is planning on running only 1080p24 or 1080i60 (or less!), then they shouldn't stress and instead just go try any of the LESS expensive extenders.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mfeferman* /forum/post/20766708
> 
> 
> I know Jautor will respond sooner or later (Hi Jeff!), but I'm wondering, is component is still the way to go, given the headaches with HDMI?
> 
> 
> Now I just have to figure out how to cut all those darn blue electrical boxes out of my new walls, thinking I was going to save some money...



quick reply:
As far as physics go, triple run RG6 for Component Video (5x run if you also want L/R stereo sound with each wire on its own RCA connector) **beats the pants off HDMI**
RG6 / RG6QS can carry a much higher bandwidth signal, much farther, with much less loss (or skew). It's not RG6 that's the problem, it's the industry and the content producers. In short, it's content protection that is the problem.
content producers lobbied hard (and quite successfully) for TV equipment makers to restrict component video inputs and outputs to 1080i60, and in many cases, even less than 1080i.
HDMI works well, when it works. But it was never designed to span long distances, or chain through a dozen different devices. It supports 1080p60 and higher, with embedded audio, CEC, audio-return, Ethernet, and said content protection, all in ONE multi-conductor cable. For what it is, it's a remarkable creation. But for what it is, it's also wrought with problems from implementation differences (interoperability problems between devices from different manufacturers) to signal glitches over longer runs, to strange, unexpected random problems when a cable starts going bad. It's technology at it's peak- remarkable when working properly; a nightmare when it's not.


So that leaves the unassuming user at a crossroads. 1080i over component video is rock solid all the time and even at absurdly long lengths-- but it's only 1080i. HDMI cables are markedly more feature-rich and much more convenient, with limitations in connector rigidity (bend/tug/weight stress on HDMI connectors generally decreases reliability life) and overall length.


HDMI extenders are trying to bridge the gap. From all we've seen in this unscientific thread, solution "A" will work absolute wonders for some users and be abysmal for other users. solution "B" will be the opposite. It does not look yet like any one single solution is a true "problem solver" for everyone.


New HDbaseT solutions are beginning to hit the market. It will be interesting to see how they fare.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *markrubin* /forum/post/20766790
> 
> 
> slightly OT but I found an alternaive solution to transmitting HDMI over CAT5:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
> 
> 
> I have not done range testing yet but it seems to work well



All wireless solutions that I have seen to-date include compression. That's not to say that this one does or does not- just an observation on earlier units. Whether or not the compression will bother the viewer, of course, can only be decided by the viewer. My recommendation is of course to always buy-and-try (whether wired or wireless), but *make sure you have a good return policy*, covered even if you simply and SUBJECTIVELY do not like it. Many will only exchange in the case of a faulty unit. Others charge obscene "restocking" fees. Still others make you pay for shipping both ways and only refund the pre-shipping purchase price.



I have decided to put a number of items from this post in the top post, I think they've all been discussed before (here and many places elsewhere), but it's not "generally public knowledge" so a lot can be gained by sharing these generalities up-front on the first post. Keep in mind also that these are all generalities and the internet phrase "YMMV" (your mileage may vary) applies greatly here!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dmg79* /forum/post/20806785
> 
> 
> #4
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 1080p
> 
> - Status: no dropouts



Yay!










cheers,

..dane


----------



## mangoldm

My media room is connected to my utility room via a balun (Cat5e) with a 50-foot run. The AVR is a Denon 3808. Audio/video loss sometimes occurs briefly when large appliances turn on (HVAC, washing machine, etc.). I've placed a Belkin PF30 power conditioner on the utility-room equipment with no improvement.


Would you recommend a dedicated circuit to the utility and media rooms, changing baluns, going wireless HDMI or something else?


----------



## audiodane

mangoldm, unfortunately there's no single solution, as is mentioned predominately in the very first (summary) post of this thread. Some baluns work perfectly for some and horribly for others. Other baluns are exactly the opposite. I suggest you read the first post carefully and in its entirety along with all seven pages of this thread. It's not terribly long, and has a lot of really great and useful information.


The reality is that it's probably going to take throwing some money at the problem on a trial-and-error basis. So try to find vendors that have consumer-friendly return policies.


Good luck, and let us know how you make out.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## skippy99

Ok, I know this is an older thread but I had exactly the same problem and figured out how to fix it. Go out to your home's main circuit panel and see what side your A/V equipment is running from. Look for a room nearby that is running on the OTHER side of the panel. Run a heavy duty extension cord from that room/circuit into your A/C or other power drain device. If you have a sub-panel in your A/V room (I do), go all the way out to the main panel and look for a circuit nearby. (There is a chance the main and sub-panel sides are reversed, so if you still get noise, try a circuit on the other side of the main panel.) Test the heck out of everything. The problem is strictly the noise between the devices producing the A/V signal and the A/C or other heave draw device (in my case it was a treadmill). Isolating the device on the other phase of your 3-phase 220-volt circuit panel MAY do the trick. How you do that once you figure out if this is the problem is up to you.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skippy99* /forum/post/21028838
> 
> 
> Ok, I know this is an older thread but *I had exactly the same problem and figured out how to fix it.* Go out to your home's main circuit panel and see what side your A/V equipment is running from. Look for a room nearby that is running on the OTHER side of the panel. Run a heavy duty extension cord from that room/circuit into your A/C or other power drain device. If you have a sub-panel in your A/V room (I do), go all the way out to the main panel and look for a circuit nearby. (There is a chance the main and sub-panel sides are reversed, so if you still get noise, try a circuit on the other side of the main panel.) Test the heck out of everything. The problem is strictly the noise between the devices producing the A/V signal and the A/C or other heave draw device (in my case it was a treadmill). *Isolating the device on the other phase of your 3-phase 220-volt circuit panel MAY do the trick.* How you do that once you figure out if this is the problem is up to you.



skippy99, thank you for your post, but please be careful in your wording- your post starts out with an implication that you will be presenting a definite fix, which unfortunately, you don't. At least in the end of your post you indicate that your suggestion merely *MAY* fix the problem.


I wanted to also make a few corrections to your post- most homes only have TWO phase. It is very uncommon to have true THREE-phase to a residential home. A typical breaker box (see diagram below) include TWO legs of 120V coming from the utility company. Residential consumer grade appliances that need "3-phase" usually employ capacitors in their circuitry to mimic the 3rd phase.


Second, the breaker box is staggered- it is NOT setup as left side being one leg/phase and the right side being the other leg/phase. See the diagram below. You can see the staggering of the two phases down the breakers. It *IS* correct that two breakers side-by-side are on opposite legs. So are two breakers above and below one another. Diagonally-adjacent breakers are on the same leg/phase.


Third, many residential heavy loads (A/C systems, electric dryers, etc) run off both legs (240V) not 120V (single leg), so it is impossible to isolate the AV equipment from those loads, and therefore from those surges.


Lastly, you are *completely correct* that in some circumstances, your proposal to move the AV equipment from one leg/phase to the other can make an improvement. And for those willing and comfortable in their breaker box, you can actually move your breaker to the other leg (swap it with another breaker or just move it altogether, again following the diagram below).


Unfortunately, it is *highly misleading* to propose that the above solution will solve everyone's problems.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## Colm

Just to clarify...


Common residential power in the USA is 240V single phase 3-wire (at least that is what the utility calls it). It is sometimes called split phase. The third wire is connected to the center tap of the power transformer giving two 120V legs that are 180 out of phase. I know, sure sounds like two phases.


Some panels are all one leg on one side, and the other leg on the other side. Modern ones seem to alternate, though.


----------



## audiodane

Thanks for the clarification, Colm. I forgot about the term "split phase" until you mentioned it..


I was also unaware that different panels were setup differently (non-staggered). Interesting. My subbox is certainly staggered. I'll have to pull the door off the 30yr old box in my house and see if it's staggered as well. I assumed it was.


thanks,

..dane


----------



## Colm

Who knows...you may have an old Zinsco panel (god forbid) with two parallel buss bars where all the breakers clip onto both bus bars. The 120V breakers are dualies. Top half of each 120V breaker is on one leg, bottom is on the other. I guess that kind of counts as staggered.


----------



## audiodane

Oh my goodness no. I do know it uses breakers that I consider "standard" in today's terms. I just don't know if the bars are staggered or not. Of course with all that's tugging at me, it's most likely that I'll never even go to the trouble to find out.


If it works...










..dane


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/19988888
> 
> 
> Tee hee hee, this thread has already been renamed two or three times, as it has evolved to what it is today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people find this thread because they are actually having problems with fans, A/C units, etc. So it helps to have that in the title. That said, feel free to recommend something different. It can't be anything longer than it already is ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



I recommend something different. I've been on AVS for years, and saw this thread when it was new. I don't have my HDMI matrix yet, which is what I'm shopping for, and avoided this because of the thread title. It's misleading at best. Sorry to be such a downer!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AI Limited* /forum/post/21105878
> 
> 
> I recommend something different. I've been on AVS for years, and saw this thread when it was new. I don't have my HDMI matrix yet, which is what I'm shopping for, and avoided this because of the thread title. It's misleading at best. Sorry to be such a downer!



Your input is appreciated, but if I may be frank, fairly useless if you aren't willing to even recommend alternative titles. As Plutarch once said, "To find fault is easy, to do better may be difficult."


I'm also a tad confused on your sentence about your shopping experience. Have you avoided buying an HDMI matrix because of this thread's title, or have you avoided reading this thread because of its title? Either way, good luck!


cheers,

..dane


----------



## natedogg661

Here is a quick drawing of my setup involving a splitter, switch, and extender so I can still get full HD audio to my non-3D passthrough capable receiver while still being able to send 3D video content from my BD player and PS3.


1. The splitter for the PS3 is so video content can be sent to the projector independent of the receiver while still sending audio content to the receiver.


2. The HDMI 2 output on the Oppo is for audio only (set that way in the player options). HDMI 1 sends the video directly to the projector.


3. The receiver out is for other video capable devices that I don't have in the drawing (Wii, HTPC,etc.)


I have not had any audio-video sync issues with this setup for either PS3 or Oppo.


The splitter is Monoprice product ID 8204.

The switch is Monoprice product ID 8462.

The Base-T Cat6 extender is Monoprice product ID 8122.

Denon 4810CI receiver

Panasonic AE7000U projector

Older style PS3

Oppo BDP-93


I have been using the set up now for close to 3 weeks without a hiccup. I have played PS3 3D games with full 7.1 HD audio on the PS3. Played an XBOX game in 3D with 5.1 audio through HDMI and watched multiple 3D and 2D movies with full bitstreamed HD audio over HDMI. I think a good rule of thumb for these devices is to take Monoprice's advice to use Cat6 cable instead of Cat5e and 24AWG HDMI cable to help ensure you don't run into any bandwidth/RFI/EMI noise issues.


The extender was a must for me because I had a 50' run between my devices and projector. A 50' length of Cat6 patch plus extender is price comparable to 50 ft of 22 AWG HDMI and I'm skeptical that 50' run of HDMI would work without hitch even at 22 AWG not to mention the inflexibility of it. One thing to mention though is I have not checked the audio side of things on the receive end of the extender since it is going to a projector. The video looks great!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *natedogg661* /forum/post/21130335
> 
> 
> Here is a quick drawing of my setup involving a splitter, switch, and extender so I can still get full HD audio to my non-3D passthrough capable receiver while still being able to send 3D video content from my BD player and PS3.
> 
> 
> 1. The splitter for the PS3 is so video content can be sent to the projector independent of the receiver while still sending audio content to the receiver.
> 
> 
> 2. The HDMI 2 output on the Oppo is for audio only (set that way in the player options). HDMI 1 sends the video directly to the projector.
> 
> 
> 3. The receiver out is for other video capable devices that I don't have in the drawing (Wii, HTPC,etc.)
> 
> 
> I have not had any audio-video sync issues with this setup for either PS3 or Oppo.
> 
> 
> The splitter is Monoprice product ID 8204.
> 
> The switch is Monoprice product ID 8462.
> 
> The Base-T Cat6 extender is Monoprice product ID 8122.
> 
> Denon 4810CI receiver
> 
> Panasonic AE7000U projector
> 
> Older style PS3
> 
> Oppo BDP-93
> 
> 
> I have been using the set up now for close to 3 weeks without a hiccup. I have played PS3 3D games with full 7.1 HD audio on the PS3. Played an XBOX game in 3D with 5.1 audio through HDMI and watched multiple 3D and 2D movies with full bitstreamed HD audio over HDMI. I think a good rule of thumb for these devices is to take Monoprice's advice to use Cat6 cable instead of Cat5e and 24AWG HDMI cable to help ensure you don't run into any bandwidth/RFI/EMI noise issues.
> 
> 
> The extender was a must for me because I had a 50' run between my devices and projector. A 50' length of Cat6 patch plus extender is price comparable to 50 ft of 22 AWG HDMI and I'm skeptical that 50' run of HDMI would work without hitch even at 22 AWG not to mention the inflexibility of it. One thing to mention though is I have not checked the audio side of things on the receive end of the extender since it is going to a projector. The video looks great!



Wow!! Thanks so much for your post. I am so thrilled that a "complicated" setup using a splitter, switch, AND extender, is working so well for you. I've thought about a "complicated" setup like yours before, but ended up taking the "easy" (but pricier) way out and using a DVDO Edge for all my input audio and video switching and audio routing (TV or AVR). While I don't use 3D, it does support 3D pass-through too. But I am very excited that such a setup does in fact work!


I realize it's only been 3 weeks so far, as you've indicated, so please make a note to come back in a few months and update us again over a longer time period.


Congrats!!

..dane


ps.- attaching your image directly to this email for longevity. Sometimes picture hosting sites change and forum image references get lost..


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane* /forum/post/21125994
> 
> 
> Your input is appreciated, but if I may be frank, fairly useless if you aren't willing to even recommend alternative titles. As Plutarch once said, "To find fault is easy, to do better may be difficult."
> 
> 
> I'm also a tad confused on your sentence about your shopping experience. Have you avoided buying an HDMI matrix because of this thread's title, or have you avoided reading this thread because of its title? Either way, good luck!
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



I avoided reading the thread based on the title.


How about "HDMI over Cat5e Problems (Video blanks when fan/light/motor turns on/off) now 'which extenders/matrix products work best' "? ...too long...


or... "HDMI over Cat5e problems and solutions, read before posting"


----------



## audiodane

I like the last suggestion- thanks


----------



## TVAddikt

I have been reading this thread for quite sometime. I am trying to work out a video distribution at a reasonable cost. I have tested two HDMI over CatX adaptors with my longest run. Here are my results:


Source-end: Appletv

- CatX Adapter: MonoPrice HDMI extender #6532

- CatX Cables: 117' Dual Cat6 STP Stranded (self terminated)

- Far-end: Olevia HDTV

- Resolution(s) tested: 720P

- Status: Brief Test, no problems


Source-end: SageTV HD-200

- CatX Adapter: MonoPrice HDMI extender #6532

- CatX Cables: 117' Dual Cat6 STP Stranded (self terminated)

- Far-end: same

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080i60

- Status: Did not work


Source-end: AppleTV

- CatX Adapter: Conversions Technology CT60S 

- CatX Cables: 117' Cat6 STP Stranded and Cat5e (self terminated)

- Far-end: same

- Resolution(s) tested: 720p

- Status: Worked but the picture had sparkles/noise.


Source-end: Sagetv HD-200

- CatX Adapter: Conversions Technology CT60S

- CatX Cables: 117' Cat6 STP Stranded and Cat5e (self terminated)

- Far-end: same

- Resolution(s) tested: 1080i

- Status: Did not work


I am not sure why the HD-200 won't work. The HD-200 with the monoprice adaptor would not produce a picture when completely booted up. I saw the "Sagetv" logo when it was booting but this is all. The TV either stated "invalid format or "no signal". The appletv had perfect audio and video for the short time I got to test it.

After reading the reviews on Amazon of the "Conversions Technology CT60S", I was pretty excited and thought it would solve my issues with the HD-200. The HD-200 did produce some color on the screen but other than that nothing was ledgible. I am not sure if I need to use the Rapid Run voltage inserter to make the HD-200 work with an extender or what. the HD-200 is HDMI 1.2 so I am not sure if this would affect this type of setup. I was very disappointed with the performance of the "Conversions Technology CT60S" on the appletv. There was white sparkles in the picture. I switched it between Cat6 cables (I had pulled 2 cat6 cables and 1 Cat5e cable). Neither of the cables appeared to make a difference. I switched to the cat5 cable and things just got worse.


Overall the monoprice adaptor was the clear winner in this short experiment.


----------



## theOriginalGuru




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TVAddikt* /forum/post/21252570
> 
> 
> I have been reading this thread for quite sometime. I am trying to work out a video distribution at a reasonable cost. I have tested two HDMI over CatX adaptors with my longest run. Here are my results:
> 
> 
> Source-end: Appletv
> 
> - CatX Adapter: MonoPrice HDMI extender #6532
> 
> - CatX Cables: 117' Dual Cat6 STP Stranded (self terminated)
> 
> - Far-end: Olevia HDTV
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 720P
> 
> - Status: Brief Test, no problems
> 
> 
> Source-end: SageTV HD-200
> 
> - CatX Adapter: MonoPrice HDMI extender #6532
> 
> - CatX Cables: 117' Dual Cat6 STP Stranded (self terminated)
> 
> - Far-end: same
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 1080i60
> 
> - Status: Did not work
> 
> 
> Source-end: AppleTV
> 
> - CatX Adapter: Conversions Technology CT60S
> 
> - CatX Cables: 117' Cat6 STP Stranded and Cat5e (self terminated)
> 
> - Far-end: same
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 720p
> 
> - Status: Worked but the picture had sparkles/noise.
> 
> 
> Source-end: Sagetv HD-200
> 
> - CatX Adapter: Conversions Technology CT60S
> 
> - CatX Cables: 117' Cat6 STP Stranded and Cat5e (self terminated)
> 
> - Far-end: same
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested: 1080i
> 
> - Status: Did not work
> 
> 
> I am not sure why the HD-200 won't work. The HD-200 with the monoprice adaptor would not produce a picture when completely booted up. I saw the "Sagetv" logo when it was booting but this is all. The TV either stated "invalid format or "no signal". The appletv had perfect audio and video for the short time I got to test it.
> 
> After reading the reviews on Amazon of the "Conversions Technology CT60S", I was pretty excited and thought it would solve my issues with the HD-200. The HD-200 did produce some color on the screen but other than that nothing was ledgible. I am not sure if I need to use the Rapid Run voltage inserter to make the HD-200 work with an extender or what. the HD-200 is HDMI 1.2 so I am not sure if this would affect this type of setup. I was very disappointed with the performance of the "Conversions Technology CT60S" on the appletv. There was white sparkles in the picture. I switched it between Cat6 cables (I had pulled 2 cat6 cables and 1 Cat5e cable). Neither of the cables appeared to make a difference. I switched to the cat5 cable and things just got worse.
> 
> 
> Overall the monoprice adaptor was the clear winner in this short experiment.



Did you test the HD-200 at a lower resolution (if there is such a setting)? If not, I'm curious if you can test it and see if it works at 720p or even 480p? If so, my bet would be that it requires the voltage inserter or equivalent.


----------



## ctgoodman

Been reading here off and of for a week now. Here is a delima I have. I need to share a bluray player, a dish receiver, and a media center pc w/HDMI out between two locations that are about 100ft in cable distance apart. I have tossed around the idea of trying to run HDMI that far but am really fearful this will not work. Anyone else running a distance like this?


Ive come to my second idea to use a HDMI over ethernet setup like a 4x4 matrix from monoproce (product 8151).
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 


Will this work? Will i get [email protected] with this. I'm sure with a hdmi cable I might get 720p or [email protected] if I'm really really lucky.


What will the display look like for bluray playback and dish programming look like at 1080P24. Should this be a concern?


I have an xbox 360 that will connect but will only be 20-25ft from the source to output


Also are there any known issues with HDCP for something of this nature?


----------



## lpoolfan

sorry if this has been asked a thousand times but can i use normal cat5 cable to distribute component HDTV, i've a russound VM ordered as i thought Cat5 was good enough, but now i see sometimes Russound state cat5 then other times they state cat5e?!?!?!


this is my cable


----------



## AI Limited

Most CAT5 is actually CAT5e as CAT5 is an out of date standard. A picture of your cable doesn't tell us much about what kind it is. What is the gauge of the wire? brand? I can see that its solid conductor not stranded but not much else.


----------



## AI Limited

...and yes it will likely work.


----------



## fabby

I had 5e with the hdmi converters, never could get them to be consistent, except for consistly dropping the signal when lights or ac woud cut on. Yesterday.I just ran a 45 ft hdmi line thru all kinds of turns, even drilled a hole in my new hardwood floors, but got it done. WOW, I cant believe it, no more drps or flickers. Even my picture is alot clearer. hopes this helps someone trying to decide on tryingmore converter svs runing cable.


----------



## IGO2XS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *fabby* /forum/post/21395771
> 
> 
> I had 5e with the hdmi converters, never could get them to be consistent, except for consistly dropping the signal when lights or ac woud cut on. Yesterday.I just ran a 45 ft hdmi line thru all kinds of turns, even drilled a hole in my new hardwood floors, but got it done. WOW, I cant believe it, no more drps or flickers. Even my picture is alot clearer. hopes this helps someone trying to decide on tryingmore converter svs runing cable.



I tend to agree with you. Yesterday I ran a hdmi cable to a few locations I could access. I just got through building my house and I could have run hdmi cables everywhere. I was planning on running all of my hdmi over cat5 cat 6. I really didnt plan this out so well. I know it will catch up some day soon. Most of the solutions right now are so expensive to really make it economical to set up a matrix switcher the cat extenders. I guess I tend to try to make solutions too complicated much of the time.


----------



## jc8587




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jc8587* /forum/post/20182136
> 
> 
> Looks like the Monoprice extenders I am running finally bit the dust. I attribute the failure due to extreme heating of the receiving unit. It is powered, unlike the sending unit, and it was very very hot to the touch. I'll send it back and get another pair. My plan is to either unplug when not in use (it has been plugged in since I posted in this thread originally) or devise a simple fan/heatsink for the device.
> 
> 
> I'll post more when I get time to work on it.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> -Chris



Looks like my second pair of extenders have bit the dust, this time I have no clue what happened, just didn't work one day. Maybe heat again, elthough this time the receiver wasn't too hot to the touch.


Third time is the charm.


----------



## Relleum

Wow. I just read this full thread, hoping that after 1.5 years, there would finally be a cost-efficient and reliable means of running long distance HD video signals. The home I just rebuilt has multiple CAT6 going everywhere, and I thought that would be sufficient for centralized A/V. But it sounds to me like I'm in for a ton of problems.


So sad.


----------



## Colm

Actually, things are much brighter now than when this thread started. HDBaseT has arrived and is capable of full HDMI bandwidth up to 100m over a single Cat 6 cable, more with repeaters.


----------



## Relleum




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm* /forum/post/21612937
> 
> 
> Actually, things are much brighter now than when this thread started. HDBaseT has arrived and is capable of full HDMI bandwidth up to 100m over a single Cat 6 cable, more with repeaters.



Yes, but is it affordable, and is there a particular brand that has consistently favorable reviews? Hearing HDBaseT as a solution is promising, but this area is still unstable without a well received product.


For example, I googled "hdmi 1.4 over cat6" and found this product:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-14-cat5.html 


On paper, it looks to be a great solution. But for 280 dollars, there is no way I'm going to take a chance on a brandless product that has no information about quality or reliability.


----------



## audiodane

I *REALLY* hope HDbaseT is successful. As I recall, HDMI had some pretty HORRIBLE beginnings as well, and although it still has its faults (as this thread is testament to!), it interplays a lot better than it did in its early years. I am hopeful that HDbaseT will continue to improve as well, both in performance and in decreasing cost.


cheers,

..dane


----------



## RottweilerCP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ctgoodman* /forum/post/21323747
> 
> 
> Been reading here off and of for a week now. Here is a delima I have. I need to share a bluray player, a dish receiver, and a media center pc w/HDMI out between two locations that are about 100ft in cable distance apart. I have tossed around the idea of trying to run HDMI that far but am really fearful this will not work. Anyone else running a distance like this?
> 
> 
> Ive come to my second idea to use a HDMI over ethernet setup like a 4x4 matrix from monoproce (product 8151).
> 
> 
> Will this work? Will i get [email protected] with this. I'm sure with a hdmi cable I might get 720p or [email protected] if I'm really really lucky.
> 
> 
> What will the display look like for bluray playback and dish programming look like at 1080P24. Should this be a concern?
> 
> 
> I have an xbox 360 that will connect but will only be 20-25ft from the source to output
> 
> 
> Also are there any known issues with HDCP for something of this nature?



I am about to do something similar and am ready to buy the 8151 from monoprice, it's sitting in my cart. Did this work for you, or anyone else on here? The device has great reviews besides the slight downside of displaying at the lowest common denominator. That's not too bad for me as I'm no video/audiophile and if I want 1080p I'll just tell my wife to turn the TV off. Or I'll upgrade all the TVs to 1080p, only 1, possibly 2 that need it, and both secondary (i.e. not watched much).


I'm going to have 4 sources and 4 TVs and just want to be able to switch to whatever input I'd like. Actually I would have liked 5 or 6, but there was no decently priced 8x8 matrix. If I have to settle for 1080i or 720p then so be it. Though when in my yet unfinished home theater I think I'll want 1080p. I don't expect any other TVs to be on then though.


Also, if this will work, what about distance. It says 131ft. How close can you get to that and still get a 1080p signal? A friend who's helping me wire the house said we could potentially go further than that going from the basement to the 2nd floor (2 story house). If we're close, will it still work? I read some reviews of other extenders that said about 75' was the max for a 1080p signal. Are there any options to extend the signal past 131ft, or make it stronger, while using the matrix switch?


Lastly, could I experience any issues with the handshake if I try to add my HTPC? Right now I have it plugged into a 3 port hdmi switch and I cannot switch to it while it's on, I always have to turn it off, then switch, then turn it on, very annoying. The cable box and 360 work just fine. Not that I think I'll even need the htpc anymore, but just a thought.


I'll make sure to post my results when I get everything set up.


Thanks


----------



## chazno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RottweilerCP* /forum/post/21644868
> 
> 
> I am about to do something similar and am ready to buy the 8151 from monoprice, it's sitting in my cart. Did this work for you, or anyone else on here? The device has great reviews besides the slight downside of displaying at the lowest common denominator. That's not too bad for me as I'm no video/audiophile and if I want 1080p I'll just tell my wife to turn the TV off. Or I'll upgrade all the TVs to 1080p, only 1, possibly 2 that need it, and both secondary (i.e. not watched much).
> 
> 
> I'm going to have 4 sources and 4 TVs and just want to be able to switch to whatever input I'd like. Actually I would have liked 5 or 6, but there was no decently priced 8x8 matrix. If I have to settle for 1080i or 720p then so be it. Though when in my yet unfinished home theater I think I'll want 1080p. I don't expect any other TVs to be on then though.
> 
> 
> Also, if this will work, what about distance. It says 131ft. How close can you get to that and still get a 1080p signal? A friend who's helping me wire the house said we could potentially go further than that going from the basement to the 2nd floor (2 story house). If we're close, will it still work? I read some reviews of other extenders that said about 75' was the max for a 1080p signal. Are there any options to extend the signal past 131ft, or make it stronger, while using the matrix switch?
> 
> 
> Lastly, could I experience any issues with the handshake if I try to add my HTPC? Right now I have it plugged into a 3 port hdmi switch and I cannot switch to it while it's on, I always have to turn it off, then switch, then turn it on, very annoying. The cable box and 360 work just fine. Not that I think I'll even need the htpc anymore, but just a thought.
> 
> 
> I'll make sure to post my results when I get everything set up.
> 
> 
> Thanks



I too am planning a similar system. I don't have real experience, but I have done a lot of research. If all your TVs are not 1080 then you will be limited to the Highest common denominator. You talk about turning off TVs, but I don't believe that will solve your issue. I've read that you may have to reset the source and/or matrix for it to forget about the 720p TV.


If you find your distance is over 131ft and your signal suffers, you could try connecting an hdbase-t extender http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2 to this matrix via HDMI. Thats not the cleanest solution, but it seems like it would work.


----------



## RottweilerCP

Well that sounds annoying. I didn't realize the box would cache the lowest signal and only send that. Oh well, I'll have to deal with resetting until I get a couple new TVs.


Ouch, I knew HDbaseT wasn't cheap, and neither am I, but that's a bit pricey for only extending one source. Plus I don't see it working with the 4x4 matrix.


----------



## chazno




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RottweilerCP* /forum/post/21649054
> 
> 
> Ouch, I knew HDbaseT wasn't cheap, and neither am I, but that's a bit pricey for only extending one source. Plus I don't see it working with the 4x4 matrix.



The matrix can output via 2 Catx cables or HDMI. Just run HDMI from matrix to HDBaseT extender.


----------



## RottweilerCP

You know I did see that originally and just thought why would I use it and forgot about it, but now it makes perfect sense. If the switch is near one TV or if I want to use HDbase-T. OK, that could work and I would only need one or two for the runs to the 2nd floor. I guess the only functionality I would lose is the ability to change the input at the TV since I won't be using the receiver. But that's no big deal anyway since my plan is to have a couple URC remotes to control everything from anywhere in the house. That's another whole project, but I know a guy who programs URC remotes and says it can be done.


----------



## NismoZ

Has anyone tried this one yet? It's coming in the mail soon. It's my last option since the Pace DVR box didn't run over the 60 ft HDMI cable.
http://www.amazon.com/Extender-Adapt...1178223&sr=8-3 


I've got a CAT5e run of about 60 feet. Sending video out from Pioneer 521 AVR to a 2 year old LG 60 inch LCD. Pace DVR and LG Bluray player are hooked to the pioneer in the remote location.


Do you have a recommendation if the above doesn't work? I have 2 free CAT5e runs to the TV.


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NismoZ* /forum/post/21749702
> 
> 
> It's my last option since the Pace DVR box didn't run over the 60 ft HDMI cable..



I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The DVR is connected to your AVR but only the DVR fails to work in conjunction with a 60 foot HDMI cable that is connected between your TV and your AVR? The LG player works fine in this same setup?

Are your CAT5e cables stranded or solid core? Are they factory terminated or did you put the plugs on?

Here are the specs per the mfg: http://www.port-ta.com/products/33.html 

Regards,

Marz


----------



## rudyusmc1980

All,


I've had trouble with the monoprice 8151 all month. I am on my third unit, the first was a shipping error, the second would not do ethernet (although HDMI worked flawlessly), and I almost sent the third one back tonight (but that turned out to be user error [wrong wall wart]).


When I realized I had packed up and used the wrong power supply with the sender unit, I unpacked it all and tried again. Now it would turn on, but not do ethernet with my in wall runs. Next I made 100 foot cat 6 cables to test it out of the wall. Still nothing. I had had the last unit working with commercial patch cat5e, and this set also worked with the patch cables.


A closer look revealed a different pin-out on the patch cables. I had been using the diagram on my tool kit, which is from 1-8: w brown, w green, w orange, blue, w blue, orange, green, brown.


The patch cable was: w orange, orange, w green, blue, w blue, green, w brown, brown. Changing my new 100 foot cables to this pin-out worked!


I have not yet tried to change the pins on my in-wall cables. I may get to that on Saturday.




Here is my setup: cox SA8300HD dvr, panasonic bluray, 360, etc. Feeds into the 4x4 with 24 awg monoprice HDMI cables.


Output to: a panasonic vt30 by HDMI (ethernet worked also). Samsung 23" lcd, 32" sony xbr lcd, and an emerson lcd.


The 100 foot cables are cat6 500 mHz solid UTP from monoprice.


----------



## NismoZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216* /forum/post/21750530
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The DVR is connected to your AVR but only the DVR fails to work in conjunction with a 60 foot HDMI cable that is connected between your TV and your AVR? The LG player works fine in this same setup?
> 
> Are your CAT5e cables stranded or solid core? Are they factory terminated or did you put the plugs on?
> 
> Here are the specs per the mfg: http://www.port-ta.com/products/33.html
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Marz



Yes, you have the first scenario correct. They are terminated by a cable install tech, punched down on jack plates attached to the drywall. Stranded CAT5e.


----------



## NismoZ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NismoZ* /forum/post/21749702
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried this one yet? It's coming in the mail soon. It's my last option since the Pace DVR box didn't run over the 60 ft HDMI cable.
> http://www.amazon.com/Extender-Adapt...1178223&sr=8-3
> 
> 
> I've got a CAT5e run of about 60 feet. Sending video out from Pioneer 521 AVR to a 2 year old LG 60 inch LCD. Pace DVR and LG Bluray player are hooked to the pioneer in the remote location.
> 
> 
> Do you have a recommendation if the above doesn't work? I have 2 free CAT5e runs to the TV.



This seems to be doing the trick at the moment. Just wanted to let everyone know that it works well.


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rudyusmc1980* /forum/post/21755076
> 
> 
> ...A closer look revealed a different pin-out on the patch cables.



568b is what every extender I have seen recommends using. I have gotten 568a to work, but a crossover cable would not work ever. Glad to hear everyone has had some measure of success.


----------



## Ward216

Here's a new HDMI HDBase-T Extender with IR and RS232 unit that tested amazingly well. It's from Asia and I don't yet know the mfg but here's a picture if you can find it online somewhere. Both the pcb and case are made very well with good attention to detail.


----------



## LingAwards

I'm running Keynote presentation from an iMac 27" Quad core with a mini displayport output.


I'm splitting the HDMI signal to two TVs and one projector. Since the computer negotiates with the slave to find the EDID, adding a 1x3 monoprice splitter makes it so the computer can't detect any monitor. The projector is 720p, the TVs are 1080p.


I've tried two inline solutions, neither have worked. The first was a DVI Doctor, which is supposed to pretend to be a single EDID device that you set up. The second was a Blackmagic Intensity Extreme, which would also not play with my computer.


I'm now looking at a KanexPro Mini Displayport to 2x HDMI unit. Other options might be to hook up to a A/V Receiver and put the splitter after this device, or if there are any TVs that have HDMI out (doubtful?). Perhaps converting to component video might be the choice to make?


Any suggestions would be helpful.


Greg


----------



## dweltman

anyone have experience with the Key Digital balun? Home installer I'm working with says it is very reliable.


----------



## Superfluous

I ordered the monoprice HDbaseT system and it should arrive soon. I plan to run it over what I think is a connected Cat5e for what I assume is about 50 feet... we'll see how it works. I'll report back.


----------



## Relleum

I've been using the monoprice HDBaseT system for more than two months, and I'm happy to say it's been working flawlessly over a 50' run with a single cat6. I even use the integrated IR blaster, no problems. It was a great price when compared to all the other HDBaseT units on the market.


----------



## markrubin

I just replaced 3 old fiber optic runs my new puppy destroyed with HDBaseT extenders:


using the Accell E090C-003B (which also passes RS 232) and the Monoprice units: both work great over single CSAT-5E runs (my runs are about 100 feet each): all worked first time without a glitch


----------



## Slider_09




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Relleum* /forum/post/21952780
> 
> 
> I've been using the monoprice HDBaseT system for more than two months, and I'm happy to say it's been working flawlessly over a 50' run with a single cat6. I even use the integrated IR blaster, no problems. It was a great price when compared to all the other HDBaseT units on the market.




Do you know if you can use different IR Recieving eye's with this unit? rather than the eye that came with it. I ask because I would prefer an IR eye that is a little more low profile


----------



## Superfluous

I need help:


I have a need to connect the back of the room to the front of the room over HDMI. Each side of the room had a blue cat5e cable, however, I no longer thing they are the same cable. I terminated each end to the best of my ability, and then connected the HDBaseT system but got no link light... When I connect a preterminated 1 foot cable to the HDBaseT, it gives me a solid link light. I found the real cable upstairs that is the other end of one of the cables, and when I terminated that end and connected it, it gave me a blinking link light.


Does the blinking "link" light on the HDBaseT indicate that it's the right cable but something is wrong? Did I terminate it incorrectly? Is the cable too long, not strong enough, etc.?


Does anyone live in Dallas, knows terminating cables, wiring, etc. and wanna help me out for some money?


----------



## G-Rex

Have a 50' run with a Sony 1000ES 4k projector to source. I can run the HDBase-T Atlona Baluns AT-HD4-V110SR with a 50' cat 6 shielded solid core cable or do a diagonal shortcut/detour out of my wire mold metal conduit and run a high quality 35' hdmi cable spec' at 21 gbps from projector to blu-ray player.. What is the best and more future proof solution?


If I run the 35' hdmi, could it still pass high speed specs at 35'? If I add a Lumagen then I need another 4' hdmi cable... will this put the cable length over the edge, or is the second small hdmi run reamplified with the video processor so it's not part of the equation?


Wonder if this Atlona has any of the flickers or drop outs (when ac kicks on etc...) that has plagued many of the earlier baluns? Has anyone tried this new Atlona Baluns. It can handle 4k 3d to 60hz...so it seems very future proof.

http://www.atlona.com/ATLONA-HDMI-EX...-SUPPORT..html


----------



## N3W813




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *G-Rex* /forum/post/22008909
> 
> 
> Have a 50' run with a Sony 1000ES 4k projector to source. I can run the HDBase-T Atlona Baluns AT-HD4-V110SR with a 50' cat 6 shielded solid core cable or do a diagonal shortcut/detour out of my wire mold metal conduit and run a high quality 35' hdmi cable spec' at 21 gbps from projector to blu-ray player.. What is the best and more future proof solution?
> 
> 
> If I run the 35' hdmi, could it still pass high speed specs at 35'? If I add a Lumagen then I need another 4' hdmi cable... will this put the cable length over the edge, or is the second small hdmi run reamplified with the video processor so it's not part of the equation?
> 
> 
> Wonder if this Atlona has any of the flickers or drop outs (when ac kicks on etc...) that has plagued many of the earlier baluns? Has anyone tried this new Atlona Baluns. It can handle 4k 3d to 60hz...so it seems very future proof.
> 
> http://www.atlona.com/ATLONA-HDMI-EX...-SUPPORT..html



For your 35' cable, you can try the new RedMere cables from Monoprice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...02&cp_id=10255 


It's directionally active cable that supports 3D, 4K, etc. at long distances. The ETA shows available in July though. Monster also has cables with RedMere, most likely at outrageous prices.


I am currently using Atlona HDMI extenders over 100' CAT6 runs and they are very reliable. They are not the HDBase-T models though.


----------



## bytebuster

Folks,

I just got my extender from Monoprice today. It works. No issues. But as someone else pointed out earlier, the receiver unit heats up.

Trying to figure out the best way to mount the unit. It will go next to my ceiling mounted projector.

With the supplied brackets, the face of the extender would be flush with the dry wall. And its the face that heats up.

Cannot mount on the sides since thats where the ventilation holes are located. Any ideas?


----------



## akyramoto

I had issues with a customer's signal dropping out when a light was turned on. It also would turn on when the AC would come on. He also said when the system was completely off, the tv would turn on when they turned on a light in the bathroom!


Thanks to this forum I had a good idea that it was something to do with the balun. Everyone I spoke to thought it was an issue with the TV. I switched everything to component since that's what the customer had installed with his previous tv (new TV is a samsung plasma). Once I found out that the problem disappeared when on component I knew that it was the hdmi balun. I also had tried putting a power conditioner in (that didn't help at all).


This morning I checked the attic (i was not the one who installed the cat 5) I made sure all the cat 5 was away from all electrical wires. I did have to move it a bit, but the cat5 was no where near the bathroom area that would cause the dropout almost 100% of the time. I then re-terminated the rj45 plugs on the cat5's. My boss had me install the RJ45EZ jacks the first time. The manufacturer for the balun (SnapAV HD-2CAT-1080P-130) recommends using the regular RJ45's as the EZ version can create crosstalk.


I tested it & it worked great! I went around flipping switches and had the AC kick on a few times & it never dropped picture.


these are the components in the system: Samsung Plasma TV, snapav HD-2CAT-1080P-130 balun, UTP cat5, Anthem MRX300, Oppo BDP-93, and a directv box, all video being switched through the anthem. All HDMI sensing is off.


getting 1080p off the oppo, 1080i on the directv (it doesn't do 1080p even though in the settings it says it will)


Be aware of individual instructions for each balun, almost everything we install is terminated to 568A, but this particular balun needs the RJ45's terminated to 568B.


One thing I noticed is on SnapAv's single wire baluns it says to use shielded wire, on the dual cat5's it doesn't specify that. So far in my experience the dual UTP cat5 is working out after changing the RJ45's.



Thanks to everyone who posted on this thread, it helped me alot!


----------



## speedyr6

This thread is great, I figured I'd post my experience. Based on others experience here I have a lot of devices to research and buy something newer and powered to try to still use my builder installed Cat5e which is currently flakey on 1080p with the cheap monoprice extender.


I'll stick to the format in the first post on my attempts.

Attempt 1:

- Source-end: PS3

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender Wallplate ~$19

- CatX Cables: ~20ft Cat6 UTP x 2 (T568B terminated)

- Far-end: Sammy 40" LCD (not sure model off hand)

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 720p 1080i/p

- Status: Works perfectly


Attempt 2:

- Source-end: PS3

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender Wallplate ~$19

- CatX Cables: ~20ft Cat5e UTP x 2 (???, termination not listed)

- Far-end: Sammy 40" LCD (not sure model off hand)

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 720p 1080i/p

- Status: Works perfectly


Attempt 2:

- Source-end: PS3

- CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI Extender Wallplate ~$19

- CatX Cables: 6" Cat6 UTP patch cables(T586B terminated) x 4, 30' cat5e (builder installed, STP v UTP not listed, T586B terminated) x 2, leviton cat5e plates x 2

- Far-end: Sammy 40" LCD (not sure model off hand)

- Resolution(s) tested: 480i/p 720p 1080i

- Status: Works Ok, some artifacting occasionally @1080i. 1080p is really bad, looks like analog station not tuning in, sound works, but pretty worthless at this resolution.


----------



## ericmn

I picked up the Monoprice hdmi over cat5 4x4 matrix as well.


For my initial tests, I'm distributing from a closet to two rooms over builder installed twisted-pair (assuming cat5e). The run lengths probably around 40' and 60'. For now, I'm using end-to-end runs, no patch panels or wall jacks.


Displays are Samsung 6000 32" and Samsung B450 46".

HDMI cables are Monoprice 1ft 28AWG w/ baluns.


Results:

PS3 gaming at 1080p: works great, no issues.

PS3 general use: changing resolution (gaming->menus->netflix, etc) will cut the picture for 1-5 seconds. This isn't a showstopper, but it's annoying.

PS3 dvd: unacceptable. Screen went solid green for 1-3 seconds every few minutes during playback


Samsung DVD player: unacceptable. Screen went solid green for 1-3 seconds every few minutes during playback


HTPC: no issues at 1080p


Installation:

The Samsung 6000 32" is a slim unit, and I got the monoprice "ultra-slim" mount. The total depth from bezel surface to wall is 2 3/8". Getting the monoprice receiver tucked in behind this was a major hassle, but it managed to get in. I'm using a USB to DC barrel connector adapter (Startech brand, from amazon) in place of the 5v wallwart to power the receiver balun from the TV. This made the whole thing possible...I only had one recessed power receptacle. It looks really clean, and the fiance is thrilled. (Enough to soften my budget caps a little 


The Samsung B450 46" will have oodles of room behind it. The TV is still sitting on the floor, but I don't foresee any installation problems.


IR passthrough.

So far, I haven't gotten the IR passthrough to do jack ****. I'm going to ignore its IR capabilities and solve that problem separately. The IR eyes are built into the units themselves, which means you need the balun visible to the viewer. This is IMO a really, really stupid design decision, since I'm assuming most people buying a consumer level hdmi-over-cat5 matrix are trying to hide their AV gear. The baluns also have blindingly bright blue leds right next to the sensor, so good luck covering those with electrical tape and still getting a decent angle for the remote to work with.


Audio return channel

Untested. I still have a pre-HDMI surround receiver.


Thoughts:

I started with the cheapest matrix switch out there with the plan of trading up if needed. I don't know if I'm keeping it yet. It seems to be unable to deal with HDCP content and blinks out frequently. Undecided on whether this is a showstopper.


----------



## memmo

I've done so much reading in this thread and around the web that I should be an expert by now but it's very overwhelming...


Looking for some advice:


I'm planning on a central machine room for a new house I just purchased (it's already built, so I'm hiring a company to fish new wire around the house -- fun!). The machine room is centrally located in the basement of the house.


I have 3 video zones I need to accomodate.


1. Main Floor living room - this is the closest to the machine room. I estimate perhaps maybe a 30-35 foot run.


2. Master Bedroom - this would need to go up through a conduit into the attic, to the back of the house and drop down to where the tv will be placed. I'm guessing this might be 75-80ft (this might be more, but better over estimate right?)


3. Guest Bedroom - again, up through the conduit, to the front of the house and drop down -- perhaps 55-60 feet.

*Questions:*


1. Can i simply use a long HDMI cable for the Main floor living room? It will be our primary viewing space so the least amount of "weirdness" the better. If the answer is yes, what is the best type of cable for the job?


2. Looking at extenders for the 2 second floor rooms -- I want extenders that are pretty much bullet proof - no drop-outs, hdcp issues etc. I also need them to have Dual band IR capability, and preferably no power supply on the receiver end. I'd like to pay $300-$350 or less if possible. HDbaset would be nice but not strictly required. Any recommendations?


----------



## AVSAR

Apologize in advance if this was asked and answered. Searched thread and nothing came up.


My builder pre-wired SHIELDED twisted pair Cat5 for 3 balun locations in a new construction. I have searched endlessly for the answer to this question:
*Do I need to use Shielded RJ45 connection ends for both locations or just one location for the baluns?* In other words, do I need to ground both ends of the shielded Cat5 or just one (for concern over a ground loop) for a balun?


I'm planning to use the Vanco 280725 Balun that uses 2 runs of Cat 5 or Cat 6 and is powered.
Vanco 280725 HDMI Wall Plate Extender.pdf 197k .pdf file


----------



## Colm

Manufacturer calls for UTP, not STP, so I would guess the gear is not designed for use with shielded plugs. If so, using shielded plugs is pointless. If the gear does support them, then just put them on both ends.


FWIW manufacturer also calls for Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable, not Cat 5. Using Cat 5 STP may reduce performance below that of Cat 5e UTP. You won't know if it is significant until you start using it.


----------



## AVSAR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AVSAR*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22321561
> 
> 
> Apologize in advance if this was asked and answered. Searched thread and nothing came up.
> 
> My builder pre-wired SHIELDED twisted pair Cat5 for 3 balun locations in a new construction. I have searched endlessly for the answer to this question:
> *Do I need to use Shielded RJ45 connection ends for both locations or just one location for the baluns?* In other words, do I need to ground both ends of the shielded Cat5 or just one (for concern over a ground loop) for a balun?
> 
> I'm planning to use the Vanco 280725 Balun that uses 2 runs of Cat 5 or Cat 6 and is powered.
> Vanco 280725 HDMI Wall Plate Extender.pdf 197k .pdf file




I decided to write the manufacturer of the Vanco baluns and this is the response I received which will likely help anyone else who happens to have STP instead of UTP and questions about which end to ground:


"1. You can certainly use the shielded twisted-pair (STP) Cat 5e with the Vanco 280725 HDMI wall-plate extenders.


2. In North America unshielded twisted-pair (UTP) cables are normally used, but in Europe, particularly in France and Germany, shielded twisted-pair cables (STP) are normally used. The shielding helps to eliminate any external electrical interference, but does constrain the radio frequency signal in the cable which slightly increases the attenuation (loss) of the signal. From a practical standpoint both UTP and STP are interchangeable in most applications.


3. It does make sense to use shielded RJ-45 modular connectors at both ends so that the benefit of additional shielding from electrical interference is maintained. For short distances the cable can be grounded on both ends, but for long distances a single point ground is better since in a large installation ground potential can vary and this can make the shield act like a long-wire antenna. In your home either way will work, but in" a commercial application or business "a single-point ground would likely be required."


----------



## tydas

Hi All, having a intermittent hdmi dropout issue (usually 2 to 5 seconds) but here is the hitch..the issue only happens when i am using a HDMI switch(un-powered)...here is my set up...using the monoprice hdmi over cat 6 my run is about 35 feet, ..everything was working well for several months and i decidd to add a wd tv live to the tv..i ordered a basic monoprice hdmi switch and when i set it up i started getting intermittent drops ourts...it is tied to the power because when i put the exhaust fan on in the bathroom it triggers a short drop out..


if i take the switch off then there are no drop outs...i also just tried another hdmi switch but this one was powered...it did seem to help as the drops were not as frequent but they still happen


----------



## Alex Burnet

Hi all,


I am using a Snap AV B-300 4x4 matrix with both the Monoprice HDBaseT extender and the Snap AV single wire balun. Using the Monoprice on the longer run (roughly 40m max) as the Snap AV blanked too frequently. I also have a powered splitter after my Denon receiver (which is connected via the HDBaseT Monoprice balun).


Anyway, I am finding that both infrequently bank - and looking at the amp in question it loses the handshake so probably not linked to the splitter which is connected after the receiver. This seems to have become more frequent.


I'm not convinced it's directly related to EMI interference as it doesn't blank when the AC, dishwasher or bathroom fan come on, and it seems to happen in the afternoon more often than not (!!!).


I'm using Cat6 terminated at wall plates at both ends. I also tested the runs using a professional network tester from work which passed all gigabit tests with no issues - although obviously I presume that test is more focused on data performance. I also have a UPS at one end. The Cat6 (which I installed) does cross over power circuits at right angles at one point in the loft space.


So I'm assuming it could be:


1.) EMI interference - although no evidence to support this

2.) Badly terminated runs - or perhaps wall plates, i.e. additional terminations impeding things

3.) The patch cables - which are all cat6 professional ones I've tested which passed all quality tests

4.) Powerline noise - possible but again no evidence of this being locally caused (i.e. by appliances)


Any thoughts or ideas? One idea might be to re-run a STP CAT6 run but grounding it might be tricky (never run grounded STP but guess it can't be too hard!).


Thanks all,


Alex.


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alex Burnet*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22497337
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I am using a Snap AV B-300 4x4 matrix with both the Monoprice HDBaseT extender and the Snap AV single wire balun. Using the Monoprice on the longer run (roughly 40m max) as the Snap AV blanked too frequently. I also have a powered splitter after my Denon receiver (which is connected via the HDBaseT Monoprice balun).
> 
> 
> Anyway, I am finding that both infrequently bank - and looking at the amp in question it loses the handshake so probably not linked to the splitter which is connected after the receiver. This seems to have become more frequent.
> 
> 
> I'm not convinced it's directly related to EMI interference as it doesn't blank when the AC, dishwasher or bathroom fan come on, and it seems to happen in the afternoon more often than not (!!!).
> 
> 
> I'm using Cat6 terminated at wall plates at both ends. I also tested the runs using a professional network tester from work which passed all gigabit tests with no issues - although obviously I presume that test is more focused on data performance. I also have a UPS at one end. The Cat6 (which I installed) does cross over power circuits at right angles at one point in the loft space.
> 
> 
> So I'm assuming it could be:
> 
> 
> 1.) EMI interference - although no evidence to support this
> 
> 2.) Badly terminated runs - or perhaps wall plates, i.e. additional terminations impeding things
> 
> 3.) The patch cables - which are all cat6 professional ones I've tested which passed all quality tests
> 
> 4.) Powerline noise - possible but again no evidence of this being locally caused (i.e. by appliances)
> 
> 
> Any thoughts or ideas? One idea might be to re-run a STP CAT6 run but grounding it might be tricky (never run grounded STP but guess it can't be too hard!).
> 
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> 
> Alex.



I had the exact same setup and problem as you describe using the Snap matrix switch and Mono HDBaseT balun on the longest run: and I tried other matrix switches and baluns with same results


I can tell you my fix which worked for me: put an additional HDMI splitter on the output of the Snap AV port that is giving you a problem: just connect it through the splitter in and out to balun (you don't have to connect other output ports) and it should resolve the problem: I think the extra handshake required by the splitter does the trick: worth a try


----------



## Alex Burnet

Thanks for the idea - any ideas why that would help? I had assumed it was either connections or EMI interference (as much as I can't see a pattern!)...


I have a spare equaliser - I wonder if that might help!? Having said that the signal strength should be fine at the matrix end!


Learning to really hate HDMI!!


----------



## markrubin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alex Burnet*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22500826
> 
> 
> Thanks for the idea - any ideas why that would help? I had assumed it was either connections or EMI interference (as much as I can't see a pattern!)...
> 
> 
> I have a spare equaliser - I wonder if that might help!? Having said that the signal strength should be fine at the matrix end!
> 
> 
> Learning to really hate HDMI!!



not really sure: when you turn the distant tv on, its request for handshake is not getting to the switcher: the splitter seems to respond to it though


I hate HDMI too: except when everything is working


----------



## John Jensen

Continual And Random Drop Out Of Video But Not Audio Signal


Issue: I setup a HDMI over CAT 6 solution in my home with some new equipment a couple of months ago and for the most part it works basically okay however at random points the video signal will simply die but the audio will still keep going through the speakers. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when it happens and it seems to get worse as the amp warms up. The solution is to change the output to something else and then back to what I'm watching. eg. If I'm on Blu-Ray, change to the Apple TV and then back again and the video comes back.


Interesting Info: My Apple TV 2 never gives me a problem and neither does my analogue based cable box but the blu ray player always will. Also the distance between amp 1 and TV 1 is between 85 to 90 feet and the distance between amp 2 and tv 2 is 30 to 35 feet but both setups have the same issue.


Equipment: Denon AVR-1912 amp, Atlona AT-HD30SR for HDMI over CAT 6, Apple TV 2, Toshiba BDX-3200 Blu Ray Player and Samsung UA55D6400 TV.


My Gut Feel: I think I need a powered extender instead of the current unpowered units. Something like an Atlona AT-HD4-SI40SR. I would love to be wrong of course and I would additionally love to get an understanding from somebody as to why the hell it's happening in the first place.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Jensen*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22615180
> 
> 
> I would love to be wrong of course and I would additionally love to get an understanding from somebody as to why the hell it's happening in the first place.


Read what Atlona has to say in the FAQ. They admit that the device will not even work with 10' of cable with some source devices, let alone 100'. Despite Atlona's attempt to put the blame on the manufacturers of the source equipment, the fault lies with manufacturer of the extender if they are stupid enough to power their device off the HDMI 5V line. The HDMI specification only requires source devices be able to supply 55 mA on the 5V line, primarily for hot plug detect. It isn't intended to power extenders.


----------



## politby

I have a problem with my extender (I think) which causes my Benq W6500 projector to act strangely when fed a 24p signal. The projector is connected to one of the HDMI outputs on my Marantz AV7005 pre/pro.


I have two sources, a PS3 and a HTPC. Both inputs on the Marantz have identical settings and all video processing is switched off. There are no problems with my other display - an LG TV - it works great in 24p from both sources so it is unlikely the problems with the projector are caused by the Marantz.


The Cat6 wiring is only about 10 meters and brand new shielded high quality stuff, self terminated, tested and routed through a conduit with no sharp bends and no stretching.


The extender is an NXG Technologies NX-HDEXT115 purchased at Amazon. It works perfectly when the signal is 50p or 60p. I would have thought 1080p60 would be harder to handle by the HDMI extender than 1080p24.


The projector behaves differently depending on the source when fed 24p material:
PS3: Handshake with pre/pro results in 60p playback rather than 24p.
HTPC: Handshake fails completely and the projector says "No signal". I have to power cycle both the projector and pre/pro in order for the projector to recover.


Can a low budget HDMI extender cause symptoms like this? I am thinking of ordering a new (returnable) HDbase-T extender to test with, I do not have a long enough HDMI cable anyway to test a direct connection.


----------



## Derek Ouellet

Hello AVS folks, I hope your day is going better than mine! I just received my second balun in the mail, and am now having the same technical issue.


My setup...

Balun Attempt#1: Conversions Technology CT-HD100-E 330-feet HDMI Extender Over Cat5e/6

Balun Attempt#2: Accell E090C-003B UltraCat HDMI over Single Cat5e/6 High Speed Extender

Sources: Sony BDP-S790 || Nintendo Wii

Receiver: Onkyo HT-R990

Video: Epson PowerLite 8350

HDMI Cables: Monoprice UltraThin 6ft, Nintendo AV cable

Patch: Cable Matters 50ft Cat6a 550 MHz SSTP


Result for both balun attempts:


Blu ray player menu appears. I can traverse the menu, launch apps, but when I go to play a blu ray disc, I get a "not supported" message that flashes in the corner of the screen. I also get a "not supported" message for the Wii input. A DVD successfully displayed, but the video quality seemed bad.


I also used a 50ft Cat 5e cable that I had to test the Accell balun to no avail.


Tests conducted to isolate problem:

1) Connect blu ray player directly to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS.

2) Connect blu ray player through receiver to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS

3) Connect blu ray player through receiver via 50ft Redmere cable to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS


Blu ray player and Wii all displayed as normal in these tests.


Seems like some kind of handshaking issue with the balun and the projector? Please offer any tips. I turned on the balun transmitter with the hdmi connected directly to the projector to try and sync them, but that didn't help resolve the issue.


Ugh.


----------



## StantonGuy

Very informative, if long, thread, thanks to everyone for your input. Basic question, what wires HDMI or Cat 6 should I run to a bedroom? About 30' away.


I'm finishing up running structured wiring to a central hub to the top of what will be a media closet. I've got, I think, one more long run to go between the hub and bedroom upstairs which is 15' away, plus maybe 5' to go up in the closet and 10' from the wall to TV/receiver in my bedroom so at about 30' long not that far. With a lot still exposed from other renovations, it's almost like a new construction.


----------



## Neurorad

With new construction/renovation, for distributed video, at 30', I'd run HDMI, a few cat6, and 1.5" (minimum) empty conduit.


Edit - And 1-2 RG6.


----------



## NVNYC

Great thread, Ty to all for sharing. Have been looking for an HDMI over cat6 that will support IR (of which there are many examples) and also ARC (which seems much less frequent). Apart from >$700 snapAV variants the only other one i've found is the "Sewell HDBaseT HDMI and IR over Single Cat 5 Extender 100M, 3D, HEC, ARC, and 4Kx2K" for $299 from amazon - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079LSIDY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 (which if it works fine would be great although on receiving unit IR is built in directly so needs to be visible which isn't ideal). Has anyone had any experience with this (or another device that supports ARC?) Ultimate setup will be roughly 30' run of cat6 UTP, pioneer sc-1222-k on one end feeding from ps3, xbox360 etc into a Samsung D8000 other end. Any thoughts much appreciated.


----------



## sound yeti

I recently attempted Monoprice's HDMI extenders over a single Cat5e cable (HDbaseT) and could not for the life of me get it to work with the Cox cable boxes (Cisco whole home DVR). The screen would show blue. Tried it on both the 46" samsung and the 37"+/- LG. The extenders would work with an older model DVD player though.


Any thoughts on how to resolve this? Otherwise they're going back to Monoprice.


Thanks,

Yeti


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sound yeti*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22801357
> 
> 
> I recently attempted Monoprice's HDMI extenders over a single Cat5e cable (HDbaseT) and could not for the life of me get it to work with the Cox cable boxes (Cisco whole home DVR). The screen would show blue. Tried it on both the 46" samsung and the 37"+/- LG. The extenders would work with an older model DVD player though.
> 
> Any thoughts on how to resolve this? Otherwise they're going back to Monoprice.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Yeti



Double check me because it's been a while since I read this, but I thought that the Cox box used dual band IR which the Monoprice product didn't support. I would think that the picture would show up though, and it would just not be controllable via IR. Did you run a test setup with store-bought cat5e's over a short distance? Did you put a tester on both ends of your Cat5 to make sure it was terminated correctly? Did you use 568a or 568b? (either should work as they are both straight through cables, don't use a crossover cable).


----------



## AI Limited

Any new products at CES 2013?


----------



## audiodane

It's been a LONG time since I've posted, my apologies.. I've been reading though through the AVS post notifications..


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_21761732
> 
> 
> Here's a new HDMI HDBase-T Extender with IR and RS232 unit that tested amazingly well. It's from Asia and I don't yet know the mfg but here's a picture if you can find it online somewhere. Both the pcb and case are made very well with good attention to detail.



Ward, any update on this, its price/availability?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LingAwards*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_21809206
> 
> 
> I'm running Keynote presentation from an iMac 27" Quad core with a mini displayport output.
> 
> 
> I'm splitting the HDMI signal to two TVs and one projector. Since the computer negotiates with the slave to find the EDID, adding a 1x3 monoprice splitter makes it so the computer can't detect any monitor. The projector is 720p, the TVs are 1080p.
> 
> 
> I've tried two inline solutions, neither have worked. The first was a DVI Doctor, which is supposed to pretend to be a single EDID device that you set up. The second was a Blackmagic Intensity Extreme, which would also not play with my computer.
> 
> 
> I'm now looking at a KanexPro Mini Displayport to 2x HDMI unit. Other options might be to hook up to a A/V Receiver and put the splitter after this device, or if there are any TVs that have HDMI out (doubtful?). Perhaps converting to component video might be the choice to make?



I'm not sure of the exact procedure, but my understanding is that the lowest-common-denominator is used when going through a splitter. I don't know if the splitter handles that or if the source device handles that, or exactly what the procedure is. The EDID doctors that you describe should work fine to "fake out" the source to thinking a particular downstream device exists. It would need to be placed immediately after the source device (iMac in this case) to ensure nothing else is trying to get in the way of the EDID doctor to tell the iMac what to do.


At our church we went through some renovation and ended up with two Monoprice 1x4 HDMI over CatX distribution systems, and our iMac (2009-ish model) just flat out would NOT negotiate with anything.. (I think those 1x4's seem to negotiate with whoever is first in the chain, if they're on, but that's another discussion for another day) I ended up putting a Monoprice 4x1 switch between the iMac and the Monoprice distribution boxes and boom, everything works. It seems to me that the iMac doesn't properly negotiate with all downstream devices. Maybe it's a timing thing (adding a device immediately after the iMac versus a the TV having to route through a distribution box for its negotiation causing too much communication delay???), or maybe it just likes the Monoprice swtich and not the downstream TV's..


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akyramoto*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22300121
> 
> 
> I then re-terminated the rj45 plugs on the cat5's. My boss had me install the RJ45EZ jacks the first time. The manufacturer for the balun (SnapAV HD-2CAT-1080P-130) recommends using the regular RJ45's as the EZ version can create crosstalk.
> 
> ...
> 
> Be aware of individual instructions for each balun, almost everything we install is terminated to 568A, but this particular balun needs the RJ45's terminated to 568B.



Now this is very interesting. I'm not sure I know the difference between the RJ45 RJ45EZ connectors, and to be honest, I don't know what all my network cables are terminated with. Is there a clear way to determine visually if my connectors are RJ45 or RJ45EZ? That would be interesting..


Second, this thread at least seems to indicate that 568B is the most common (*with these video baluns at least*)..


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ericmn*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22307136
> 
> 
> I picked up the Monoprice hdmi over cat5 4x4 matrix as well.
> 
> ...
> 
> I started with the cheapest matrix switch out there with the plan of trading up if needed. I don't know if I'm keeping it yet. It seems to be unable to deal with HDCP content and blinks out frequently. Undecided on whether this is a showstopper.



A lot of people in this thread have had good luck with the Monoprice 4x4 MATRIX switches.. Unfortunately a lot fewer people are actually providing part or product numbers in this thread now, so if there are more than one "Monoprice 4x4 Switch," then we don't know who is using what.










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22618840
> 
> 
> Read what Atlona has to say in the FAQ. They admit that the device will not even work with 10' of cable with some source devices, let alone 100'. Despite Atlona's attempt to put the blame on the manufacturers of the source equipment, the fault lies with manufacturer of the extender if they are stupid enough to power their device off the HDMI 5V line. The HDMI specification only requires source devices be able to supply 55 mA on the 5V line, primarily for hot plug detect. It isn't intended to power extenders.



Then would a simple HDMI 5V Injector work in such a situation? I actually have one that I thought was the problem in my original


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *politby*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22682131
> 
> 
> The extender is an NXG Technologies NX-HDEXT115 purchased at Amazon. It works perfectly when the signal is 50p or 60p. I would have thought 1080p60 would be harder to handle by the HDMI extender than 1080p24.
> *The projector behaves differently depending on the source when fed 24p material:*
> PS3: Handshake with pre/pro results in 60p playback rather than 24p.
> HTPC: Handshake fails completely and the projector says "No signal". I have to power cycle both the projector and pre/pro in order for the projector to recover.
> 
> Can a low budget HDMI extender cause symptoms like this? I am thinking of ordering a new (returnable) HDbase-T extender to test with, I do not have a long enough HDMI cable anyway to test a direct connection.



Back up a step- in the bolded statement above; does the projector behave differently depending on the source material even when NO EXTENDER is being used? Extender interactions I think are NOT out of the question, but I think isolating source-based issues should start with removing everything else first..


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Derek Ouellet*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22708159
> 
> 
> Result for both balun attempts:
> 
> Blu ray player menu appears. I can traverse the menu, launch apps, but when I go to play a blu ray disc, I get a "not supported" message that flashes in the corner of the screen. I also get a "not supported" message for the Wii input. A DVD successfully displayed, but the video quality seemed bad.
> 
> I also used a 50ft Cat 5e cable that I had to test the Accell balun to no avail.
> 
> Tests conducted to isolate problem:
> 
> 1) Connect blu ray player directly to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS.
> 
> 2) Connect blu ray player through receiver to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS
> 
> 3) Connect blu ray player through receiver via 50ft Redmere cable to projector. RESULT = SUCCESS
> 
> Blu ray player and Wii all displayed as normal in these tests.
> 
> Seems like some kind of handshaking issue with the balun and the projector? Please offer any tips. I turned on the balun transmitter with the hdmi connected directly to the projector to try and sync them, but that didn't help resolve the issue.
> 
> Ugh.



I think handshaking problems can be introduced by the (wrong) HDMI-over-Cat5 adapters, yes. Unfortunately there is no magic bullet to isolate the problem; just good old fashioned troubleshooting skills are the best first step. The fact that your 50' redmere cable works and that your 50' cat5e cable with adapters does not is an indication that the adapters you're using or the cable (check termination styles, 568B? RJ45 or RJ45EZ?, etc) might be at fault. But more testing will be necessary.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *StantonGuy*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/240#post_22734654
> 
> 
> Very informative, if long, thread, thanks to everyone for your input. Basic question, what wires HDMI or Cat 6 should I run to a bedroom? About 30' away.
> 
> I'm finishing up running structured wiring to a central hub to the top of what will be a media closet. I've got, I think, one more long run to go between the hub and bedroom upstairs which is 15' away, plus maybe 5' to go up in the closet and 10' from the wall to TV/receiver in my bedroom so at about 30' long not that far. With a lot still exposed from other renovations, it's almost like a new construction.



Simple answer-- *If at all possible, run HDMI!* I have heard good things about the Redmere cable from Monoprice, and user "Derek Ouellet" quoted directly above you seems to be having good success with it at 50' lengths! I wish it were available when I was doing my room in 2009! If HDMI is *not* possible, then this thread is here to help you (as best we can).










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NVNYC*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22769622
> 
> 
> Great thread, Ty to all for sharing. Have been looking for an HDMI over cat6 that will support IR (of which there are many examples) and also ARC (which seems much less frequent). Apart from >$700 snapAV variants the only other one i've found is the "Sewell HDBaseT HDMI and IR over Single Cat 5 Extender 100M, 3D, HEC, ARC, and 4Kx2K" for $299 from amazon - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0079LSIDY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 (which if it works fine would be great although on receiving unit IR is built in directly so needs to be visible which isn't ideal). Has anyone had any experience with this (or another device that supports ARC?) Ultimate setup will be roughly 30' run of cat6 UTP, pioneer sc-1222-k on one end feeding from ps3, xbox360 etc into a Samsung D8000 other end. Any thoughts much appreciated.



It seems that 30' is no longer a problem for Redmere HDMI cables. Can that work for you? IR over Cat5e is no big deal and can be solved separately.. Does Redmere support ARC though? I don't know.. First things first though, is Redmere an option for you?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AI Limited*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22805666
> 
> 
> Double check me because it's been a while since I read this, but I thought that the Cox box used dual band IR which the Monoprice product didn't support. I would think that the picture would show up though, and it would just not be controllable via IR. Did you run a test setup with store-bought cat5e's over a short distance? Did you put a tester on both ends of your Cat5 to make sure it was terminated correctly? Did you use 568a or 568b? (either should work as they are both straight through cables, don't use a crossover cable).



Most CatX-HDMI baluns are recommending 568B termination. I *think* that there is a difference I think in the overall complex impedance of the pairings between 568A and 568B that may be at play here (and that may NOT be in play when used for Ethernet traffic???), but I honestly don't know, that's just a guess at this point..


cheers,

..dane


ps.- I've updated the first post as of today to reflect new reports submitted to this thread. Thank you all for your continued support!


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22806562
> 
> 
> Most CatX-HDMI baluns are recommending 568B termination. I *think* that there is a difference I think in the overall complex impedance of the pairings between 568A and 568B that may be at play here (and that may NOT be in play when used for Ethernet traffic???), but I honestly don't know, that's just a guess at this point..
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane
> 
> 
> ps.- I've updated the first post as of today to reflect new reports submitted to this thread. Thank you all for your continued support!



Complex impedance of the pairings? What you talking about willis? If it's 568A at both ends, it's a straight through cable. If it's 568B at both ends it's a straight through cable. 568B is more common, but not mandatory. Sure you can talk about alien crosstalk, yada yada, but it makes no difference.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AI Limited*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22809310
> 
> 
> 
> Complex impedance of the pairings? What you talking about willis? If it's 568A at both ends, it's a straight through cable. If it's 568B at both ends it's a straight through cable. 568B is more common, but not mandatory. Sure you can talk about alien crosstalk, yada yada, but it makes no difference.


As with most technology, "the devil is in the details."  CatX cables are not all created equal, but many are interchangeable when used for lesser-demanding applications. The higher the demand, issues that normally "don't much matter" become "very important."  crosstalk, attenuation, skew, etc.  I was theorizing that the differences in termination styles may play a small (but increasingly important) role in the minor timing differences and signal integrity issues of translating HDMI data over CatX cables.


Some brief searching this morning has brought up a treasure trove of articles and data that never even existed when I started this project in early 2010 (and started this thread in Aug 2010 to capture my experiences and create a place to collectively "solve the problem")..


It seems that a fellow named Jeff Boccaccio, president of DPL Labs, has written a bunch of very appropriate articles :

 

HDMI: Is Timing Everything? (12.06.2012)

Can Category Cable Replace HDMI? (11.13.2012)

The Evolution of HDMI Long-Distance Applications (06.14.2012)

HDMI to Cat 5/6: Are 1- or 2-Wire Solutions Best? (05.15.2012)

HDMI: A Closer Look Under the Jacket (03.20.2012)

Cat 568A or B: Which is Right For HDMI? (02.16.2012)

Inside an HDMI Problem (11.28.2011)

Is Your HDMI Balun Really a Balun? (11.04.2011)

Re-Defining HDMI Performance (09.16.2011)

Why 2 Short HDMI Cables Yield Different Results (08.05.2011)

Inside the HDMI Balun's Transmitter Job (12.21.2010)

Pros & Cons of HDMI Baluns (10.21.2010)

Aren't All Cables the Same? (01.21.2010)

The Importance of Good Signal Integrity (01.20.2010)

HDMI 1.4 Requires Increased Bandwidth: True or False? (10.01.2009)

HDMI: High Emissions, Poor Grounds Don't Mix (06.19.2009)

HDMI: The Importance of Termination (04.06.2009)

Cat 5 & 6: Why Do We Need Two for HDMI? (03.06.2009)

...

I have captured a few and converted them to MHT (single-file-html-archive format) and attached them here..  I'm going to email Jeff a few questions and will report back what I hear..  Seems there is growing evidence that maybe it *DOES* make a difference.. 









 

 

 

JeffBoccacci_Various_Articles.zip 1,036k .zip file

 

 

 

 

..dane


----------



## NVNYC

ty for the suggestion AudioDane, ultimately that's the route I am going. Got the Sewell HDbaseT balun mentioned above, HDMI worked fine but did NOT support ARC (at least not from my test using Samsung smarthub to play videos on a NAS drive or Netflix...curiously the four-page manual that came with the device had no mention of ARC so possibly incorrectly labeled on amazon.com). Anyway am going to ship that back to Amazon. 50' redmere from monoprix due to arrive shortly, will be a pain but will snake that into the TV and should work fine (we tested ARC with some other HDMI 1.4 cables and worked like a charm). Will deal with IR separately as u note. I found some more expensive HDbaseT baluns that claim to support ARC but they are $700 a pop...if anyone happens across one that actually supports ARC would be curious for other projects. ty all & good luck


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22810267
> 
> 
> 
> As with most technology, "the devil is in the details."  CatX cables are not all created equal, but many are interchangeable when used for lesser-demanding applications. The higher the demand, issues that normally "don't much matter" become "very important."  crosstalk, attenuation, skew, etc.  I was theorizing that the differences in termination styles may play a small (but increasingly important) role in the minor timing differences and signal integrity issues of translating HDMI data over CatX cables.
> 
> 
> 
> Some brief searching this morning has brought up a treasure trove of articles and data that never even existed when I started this project in early 2010 (and started this thread in Aug 2010 to capture my experiences and create a place to collectively "solve the problem")..
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that a fellow named Jeff Boccaccio, president of DPL Labs, has written a bunch of very appropriate articles :
> 
> 
> HDMI: Is Timing Everything? (12.06.2012)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can Category Cable Replace HDMI? (11.13.2012)
> 
> 
> 
> The Evolution of HDMI Long-Distance Applications (06.14.2012)
> 
> 
> HDMI to Cat 5/6: Are 1- or 2-Wire Solutions Best? (05.15.2012)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI: A Closer Look Under the Jacket (03.20.2012)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cat 568A or B: Which is Right For HDMI? (02.16.2012)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside an HDMI Problem (11.28.2011)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is Your HDMI Balun Really a Balun? (11.04.2011)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Re-Defining HDMI Performance (09.16.2011)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why 2 Short HDMI Cables Yield Different Results (08.05.2011)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Inside the HDMI Balun's Transmitter Job (12.21.2010)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pros & Cons of HDMI Baluns (10.21.2010)
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't All Cables the Same? (01.21.2010)
> 
> 
> The Importance of Good Signal Integrity (01.20.2010)
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI 1.4 Requires Increased Bandwidth: True or False? (10.01.2009)
> 
> HDMI: High Emissions, Poor Grounds Don't Mix (06.19.2009)
> 
> HDMI: The Importance of Termination (04.06.2009)
> 
> 
> Cat 5 & 6: Why Do We Need Two for HDMI? (03.06.2009)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> I have captured a few and converted them to MHT (single-file-html-archive format) and attached them here..  I'm going to email Jeff a few questions and will report back what I hear..  Seems there is growing evidence that maybe it *DOES* make a difference..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JeffBoccacci_Various_Articles.zip 1036k .zip file
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..dane



Thanks for the articles. They look interesting. I meant that it made no difference if you use 568A or 568B, as long as you're consistent. I understand that you were theorizing so I was essentially disagreeing with your theory. I happen to be an EE and I took a lot of transmission line classes as I ended up going into communications. As far as HDMI is concerned, you can use either standard even though some manufacturers may prefer one over another. If you read Jeff's article on "568A or 568B?" I think you'll find that he essentially agrees.


Now I have to re-read most of this thread because I suddenly find myself in a situation where a simple balun may buy me some time on renewing a SAT TV contract if there are affordable ones working. Up until now, I've been focusing strictly on matrix switches.


----------



## weaselfest

Sound and Video Contractor magazine has sponsored a HDMI extender shootout. The webinar is available on demand. Print copy of results to be published in an upcoming edition.
https://event.meetingstream.com/eventRegistration/EventLobbyServlet?target=registration.jsp&eventid=549112&sessionid=1&key=15E9EB1BBC1BCF8431A8B1CECF625111&sourcepage=register 

registration required


----------



## Neurorad

Results of that shoutout were published already this month, in the print edition. Great resource, includes distances with cat5, cat5e, and cat6, IIRC.


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22850797
> 
> 
> Results of that shoutout were published already this month, in the print edition. Great resource, includes distances with cat5, cat5e, and cat6, IIRC.



Useful but not sure it's a great resource. Why isn't the $200 Monoprice option in there? Why didn't they test IR? If it was listed which ones supported dual-band IR it would've been much more useful even if they didn't test the IR. So many people have SAT/CBL boxes that require dual band and it is impossible to know which extenders will support it most of the time since that spec isn't published very often.


----------



## jakeyb

Good Morning All,


I will give the usual apology if I am in the wrong spot but figured this just might be the place. I recently purchase the following setup (I think it is a great price as well):


4x4 HDMI Matrix Switcher w/8 Outputs - HDBaseT "Lite" to 220 Feet
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrix-switch-hdbaset-lite.html#axzz2Iou5XUTR 


I purchased this with 1 receiver for now.


I have tested this unit out in various locations in my home by taking a 22" monitor to a spot and seeing if the Cable box that is hooked into input 1 displays. Works flawlessly so far. However here is my issue.


When I take the receiver unit to my bedroom and use the freshly run (as in Monday of this week) cat 6 wire (I ran two just because) and plug it into the portable monitor, all is perfect. Works like a charm.


When I plug the hdmi connection (this is a hdmi balun) into my panasonic TC-P42S2 I get nothing. I have tried the following:

Hdmi ports 1,2 and 3 on the TV. I know 1 and 2 work as I have tried the local blu ray player, so it is not a port issue

Swaping Cat6 runs....figured worth a try


The funny thing is when looking at the inputs on the TV the hdmi ports, no matter which one I use for this balun receiver, are greyed out. I was expecting it to pick up the hdmi signal and just be able to switch to that input. No such luck. I know the HDBaseT distribution box is hdcp compliant, I have new hdmi cables. I am at a loss. Anyone have any thoughts?


I have not run through a tv setup again as of yet and I have not tried another source device besides the cable box. I plan on trying both of those tonight, but it still seems odd.


Thanks!


----------



## markrubin

^^^


Jake


with the Panasonic connected and turned on, reboot (repower) the HDMI matrix switch and see if that works...


----------



## jakeyb

Mark,


I am sure you have heard this 1 or 2x before....Genius. You nailed it. I was so focused on the more complex issues at hand thinking it was more "technical" than the obvious--though clearly not obvious to me!


For anyone looking for a cost effective (at least to me) solution this looks promising. In doing a little research, these matrix switches are made out of china and are rebranded with some minor tweaks it, and then sold to some of the names you are already familiar with for 2x - 2.5x more.


Thanks again!


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Neurorad*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22850797
> 
> 
> Results of that shoutout were published already this month, in the print edition. Great resource, includes distances with cat5, cat5e, and cat6, IIRC.


 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AI Limited*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22865200
> 
> 
> 
> Useful but not sure it's a great resource. Why isn't the $200 Monoprice option in there? Why didn't they test IR? If it was listed which ones supported dual-band IR it would've been much more useful even if they didn't test the IR. So many people have SAT/CBL boxes that require dual band and it is impossible to know which extenders will support it most of the time since that spec isn't published very often.


 

Is the final report available yet online?  (I don't want to register just to find out it's not..)

 

I'm not surprised that MonoPrice extenders were not included.  I see this all the time with speaker shootouts, amplifier shootouts, etc.  The big name players are included, the "little boys" (low-cost, internet-direct, etc) are typically ignored.  Conspiracy theory goes that it's because the little boys don't pay to advertise in the big boy publications or trade events.  Another conspiracy theory goes that it will completely throw off the "price-to-performance" ratios of the big boys if the little boys are included in the results..  Either way, it's a disadvantage to those who are not against trying something "new" ..

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jakeyb*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22872362
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> 
> I am sure you have heard this 1 or 2x before....Genius. You nailed it. I was so focused on the more complex issues at hand thinking it was more "technical" than the obvious--though clearly not obvious to me!
> 
> 
> For anyone looking for a cost effective (at least to me) solution this looks promising. In doing a little research, these matrix switches are made out of china and are rebranded with some minor tweaks it, and then sold to some of the names you are already familiar with for 2x - 2.5x more.
> 
> 
> Thanks again!


 

Wow, a nearly $1000 solution is cost effective, I never thought I'd hear that.  but I suppose it entirely depends on your setup-- The link you provided is an EIGHT (8!!!) output matrix.  If you've really got that many displays, then I suppose $1000 distribution solution really is cost effective!  

 

cheers,

..dane


----------



## Neurorad

No, the review isn't available online, looked for it yesterday.


No, it wasn't an exhaustive review, but that's reality. That's how the world works.


Edit - I looked in the wrong trade pub. It was SVC, as stated above.

http://svconline.com/cables/products/hdmi_extenders_review/


----------



## weaselfest

really, conspiracy.?....Shinybow, Star Tech com, Zektor, Zigen? These are the super powers swaying the publishing industry? There were prerequisites for the test that excluded anything that did video only, so no surprise Monoprice didn't make the cut. The magazine is aimed at commercial integrators, not home theater.


----------



## adk highlander




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jakeyb*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22868226
> 
> 
> Good Morning All,
> 
> 
> I will give the usual apology if I am in the wrong spot but figured this just might be the place. I recently purchase the following setup (I think it is a great price as well):
> 
> 
> 4x4 HDMI Matrix Switcher w/8 Outputs - HDBaseT "Lite" to 220 Feet
> http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-matrix-switch-hdbaset-lite.html#axzz2Iou5XUTR
> 
> 
> I purchased this with 1 receiver for now.



That is the most reasonably priced piece I have seen. The spec's do not say anything about audio and it says it uses a "Lite" version of HDBaseT. Will the unit transmit only PCM or will it handle dolby digital or the new lossless codec's? I read through the manual and it does not say anything about audio either.


Thanks.


----------



## Joe Fernand

 http://www.valens.com/products/vs010 


Joe


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adk highlander*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22935945
> 
> 
> The spec's do not say anything about audio and it says it uses a "Lite" version of HDBaseT. Will the unit transmit only PCM or will it handle dolby digital or the new lossless codec's? I read through the manual and it does not say anything about audio either.



The 'Lite' version of HDBaseT is limited to a distance of 70m (instead of 100m) and drops the Ethernet channel. It's still passing the HDMI data stream, so whatever audio/video comes in goes out. "Doing something" to the audio would require the chip to crack open the packets and be more complicated than 'regular' HDBaseT - which would defeat the whole point of the cheaper/smaller/less-power Lite version...


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *weaselfest*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22932678
> 
> 
> really, conspiracy.?....Shinybow, Star Tech com, Zektor, Zigen? These are the super powers swaying the publishing industry? There were prerequisites for the test that excluded anything that did video only, so no surprise Monoprice didn't make the cut. The magazine is aimed at commercial integrators, not home theater.



The Monoprice solution also does IR and Ethernet. Commercial Integrators use Monoprice products all the time.


----------



## GaryChios

I bought the XTENDEX as prescribed on this thread. Paid $310 shipped. I received it in two days from Ohio to NY approx 4 days ago.


I am a 21 Year IT Network Engineer. I ran all the cat 5e and Cat6 wires in my house avoiding 110V and 220v power routes. I was using the Tripplite HDMI wall plates that you punch down directly from Cat wire to the HDMI wall plate. These were purchased from AMAZON.


I was experiencing temp loss of signal anytime my boiler would kick in or when the power switches for lights in 2 separate locations were used. After reading this thread. I bought the XTENDEX.

It does not work well on anything under 1080i.


- Source-end: FIOS Cable Box from Motorola with HDMI out. Set at 1080I. NY Models.

- CatX Adapter: XTENDEX® ST-C5HDMI-150 (NTI, $310 shipped from reseller)

- Cat6 Cables: Cat 6 Honeywell Genesis non shielded (Blue Color) 4 Pair Solid 18AWG wire. Approx 55' of wire.

- Far-end: Sony Bravia TV (Smart TV)1

- HDMI Cables: VIZIO Cable provided with another TV from Source to XTENDEX approx 6'. Monster Cable @ remote location approx 4' to TV

- Resolution(s) tested:


1080i and 1080p @ 120 (not sure about bit rate) - This works well. No loss in signal and great quality video.

Sparkles @ 480i 480p and 720p. Audio good. But video useless.


- Status: Does not work on any 480 or 720. Which is common when using a cable box in the basement and all TV's are elsewhere. We watch 1080i Cable when a movie is on or Sports etc, but my wife an I usually hit channel 5 etc for news, which comes in at 480. Adjusting resolutions or turnning off or on HDMI features does not do anything or help with the sparkles.


I am super pissed this did not work. Now going to a Cat to component cable adapter.


----------



## JayNYC

Meta question: Is this the correct thread to talk about DVI over Cat6 STP, or should I start a new topic?


----------



## Colm

Should be fine here. The technology is the same, just DVI doesn't carry audio.


----------



## JayNYC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_23255794
> 
> 
> Should be fine here. The technology is the same, just DVI doesn't carry audio.



Does anybody have any first hand experience comparing the various DVI over Cat6 STP solutions at 75 foot distance? ie: Geffen vs. Extron vs. Startech , especially in terms of latency (delay) when running [email protected]? I want to run DVI over Cat6 STP but absolutely minimize latency to reduce/prevent lip synch issues since I will route the audio via a different method.


Any info greatly appreciated.


thanks



-jay


----------



## Colm

No experienced with DVI extenders. But pretty much everything in this thread that applies to HDMI pretty also applies to DVI. Latency is not a problem, it is so small as to be inconsequential. Any lip sync issues will originate at the source or the sound system. A HDBaseT-based solution is most likely to work well.


----------



## Ward216




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JayNYC*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_23255727
> 
> 
> Meta question: Is this the correct thread to talk about DVI over Cat6 STP, or should I start a new topic?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_23255794
> 
> 
> Should be fine here. The technology is the same, just DVI doesn't carry audio.



Both HDMI and DVI utilize LVDS signaling so they operate almost identically. On a side note, all the DVI extenders I have tested will pass HDMI audio and support HDCP content protection when used with a HDMI display and source device.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_23257825
> 
> 
> ...the DVI extenders I have tested will pass HDMI audio and support HDCP content protection when used with a HDMI display and source device.


As one would expect.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *GaryChios*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22977088
> 
> 
> I bought the XTENDEX as prescribed on this thread. Paid $310 shipped. I received it in two days from Ohio to NY approx 4 days ago.
> 
> 
> I am a 21 Year IT Network Engineer. I ran all the cat 5e and Cat6 wires in my house avoiding 110V and 220v power routes. I was using the Tripplite HDMI wall plates that you punch down directly from Cat wire to the HDMI wall plate. These were purchased from AMAZON.
> 
> 
> I was experiencing temp loss of signal anytime my boiler would kick in or when the power switches for lights in 2 separate locations were used. After reading this thread. I bought the XTENDEX.
> 
> It does not work well on anything under 1080i.
> 
> 
> - Source-end: FIOS Cable Box from Motorola with HDMI out. Set at 1080I. NY Models.
> 
> - CatX Adapter: XTENDEX® ST-C5HDMI-150 (NTI, $310 shipped from reseller)
> 
> - Cat6 Cables: Cat 6 Honeywell Genesis non shielded (Blue Color) 4 Pair Solid 18AWG wire. Approx 55' of wire.
> 
> - Far-end: Sony Bravia TV (Smart TV)1
> 
> - HDMI Cables: VIZIO Cable provided with another TV from Source to XTENDEX approx 6'. Monster Cable @ remote location approx 4' to TV
> 
> - Resolution(s) tested:
> 
> 
> 1080i and 1080p @ 120 (not sure about bit rate) - This works well. No loss in signal and great quality video.
> 
> Sparkles @ 480i 480p and 720p. Audio good. But video useless.
> 
> 
> - Status: Does not work on any 480 or 720. Which is common when using a cable box in the basement and all TV's are elsewhere. We watch 1080i Cable when a movie is on or Sports etc, but my wife an I usually hit channel 5 etc for news, which comes in at 480. Adjusting resolutions or turnning off or on HDMI features does not do anything or help with the sparkles.
> 
> 
> I am super pissed this did not work. Now going to a Cat to component cable adapter.


 

Thanks for your update, I will add it to the first post.  I am sorry to hear that the XTENDEX did not work for you.  I am likewise sorry that you inferred any units in particular were "recommended."  I tried very hard on the first post (and in many subsequent posts) to make the point clear that combination A works well for some and not others, and combination B is completely opposite.  As of my personal experience, there is not "end-all-solution."  HDbaseT I think makes fantastic strides and improvements, but unfortunately I lack the funding to purchase so many units to do an appropriate 'shootout' and even then, it would only be based on my own configuration.  Hopefully your reseller has an acceptable return policy so that your losses are minimal (maybe just shipping charges?).

 

I don't recall testing anything below 1080 on my configuration as it is all driven through a DVDO Edge which upscales everything to 1080p60..  Maybe sometime I'll have time to go back and try those resolutions on my unit to add some additional datapoints.

 

Keep us posted on your progress.  Good luck!  ..and thanks for posting.

..dane

 

ps.- I just noticed you said, "1080i and 1080p @ 120" ... do you mean 3D @ 60fps?  thanks..


----------



## Ward216

Gary, sorry to hear you had so many problems with the Obonok Blu-Wire HDMI extender. Drop out at 480 and 720 while flawless 1080i is really odd. My first thought is to set the cable box to convert all channels to 1080i rather than use native resolutions. I do this on my DirecTV box just to speed up channel switching. I'm confused by 1080 @ 120hz unless you're referring to the speed of the display panel. I'm not sure why it's common for most cable boxes in the basement to be problematic other than perhaps they have trouble driving longer HDMI cable runs. I would have to agree with Dan that HDBT tech works way better than most others; although I can't really recommend Monoprice's HDBT units - they just don't last more than a few months in my experience. As Joe links to above, Valens chipsets seem pretty solid. So much so that we use them for in house HDBT designs.


----------



## DBJELLQU

Question to all HDMI Extender experts on this thread:


What is the feasability of extending HDMI point-to-point via DisplayPort?


Tripp-Lite sells a 100' DP Cable for about $125 on Amazon. The corresponding Tripp-Lite DisplayPort booster recommended is anoher $108. Companies like Startech make HDMI-to-DP and DP-to-HDMI adapters, also available on Amazon. One of each 'active' converter might set you back another $150. I don't necessarily see total cost being much different than a Catx Extentender solution.


Speciffication wise, DisplayPort seems to handle even higfher-rez than HDMI.


I am sure there are lots of trade-offs and considerations for transferring from one video format to another and back again. In the end, maybe nothing beats the relative simplicity of the triple-run RG6 on the thread 'sticky' to get a 1080i solution (audio for two additional RG6 pulls). But the question needs to be asked. HDMI to DisplayPort and back again? Would it work? What would the video quality look like? How would it compare from a quality and cost perspective to an HDMI Catx Extender solution?


This forum and thread seems like the right place for the question.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DBJELLQU*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23415851
> 
> 
> What is the feasability of extending HDMI point-to-point via DisplayPort?


It is certainly feasible. The question is why would you want to do it?


> Quote:
> Tripp-Lite sells a 100' DP Cable for about $125 on Amazon. The corresponding Tripp-Lite DisplayPort booster recommended is anoher $108. Companies like Startech make HDMI-to-DP and DP-to-HDMI adapters, also available on Amazon. One of each 'active' converter might set you back another $150. I don't necessarily see total cost being much different than a Catx Extentender solution.


Let's see, that is $383, for claimed 4.45 Gbps (1080p60) up to 150' with 24 AWG cable. Compare that to a monoprice HDBaseT extender and Cat 6 cable for about $200 that is capable of 10.2 Gbps (full HDMI bandwidth) at the same distance and more, up to 328' (probably requiring Cat 6a cable).


> Quote:
> Speciffication wise, DisplayPort seems to handle even higfher-rez than HDMI.


Anything over 10.2 Gbps is moot for now. Neither does long distances well. Signalling is similar for both. DisplayPort ultimately has a 33% advantage over HDMI because it can use 4 lanes for data with embedded clock. HDMI uses 3 for data, plus one for clock. As I understand it, one of the things that HDBaseT does to achieve its throughput is to use 4 lanes for data. There are other things such as 16 level PAM.


> Quote:
> In the end, maybe nothing beats the relative simplicity of the triple-run RG6 on the thread 'sticky' to get a 1080i solution...


No body ever suggested that. RG6 was only mentioned to highlight the problems with transmitting over twisted pair.


> Quote:
> HDMI to DisplayPort and back again?


Again, why?


> Quote:
> Would it work?


Yes ,as described, up to some distance for a given bit rate.


> Quote:
> What would the video quality look like?


Exactly the same as any other method up to the point where you start getting bit errors.


> Quote:
> How would it compare from a quality and cost perspective to an HDMI Catx Extender solution?


More expensive and not as good if you are comparing to HDBaseT.


----------



## Ward216

I usually can't get DP->HDMI adapters to work with HDMI extenders. Dell PC's being the most problematic with flashing/strobing video. Apple is almost as much trouble. I've never had a DP extender so I'm no help there. Always use native cabling when possible. A 100 foot HDMI cable is more reliable than most any comparably priced extender.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ward216*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23417415
> 
> 
> A 100 foot HDMI cable is more reliable than most any comparably priced extender.


I agree with that if it will give you the bit rate you need. The best of them will handle 1080p60 2D and 1080p24 3D with maybe a dropped bit here or there depending on the gear you are using. But if you need more bandwidth than that, you have to go with something like a HDBaseT-based extender. And there is another reason to go with a Cat 5e/6/6a based product, the HDMI plugs are quite fragile. If you damage one, there is really no way of properly replacing it in the field. If the cable is buried in a wall, you are SOL. A single 8P8C plug is much less prone to damage, and if need be, can easily be replaced in the field.


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23417168
> 
> No body ever suggested that. RG6 was only mentioned to highlight the problems with transmitting over twisted pair.





> I did.     I was commenting that the raw bandwidth of RG6 beats the pants off HDMI for both signal integrity and has lower loss over distance.  But that the powers-that-be (hollywood, etc) successfully lobbied the Analog Sunset and alas, we are stuck with HDMI.  IF you have a display that can still accept 1080p or 1080i over component video, a triple run RG6 would get you where you need to be easier, cheaper, and farther.  (plus additional run(s) for audio if necessary)   It goes analog and back, but it doesn't have the same limitations of HDMI.  (It might have OTHER limitations, however, such as additional stages through D/A and A/D converters, but I would also argue systems capable of 1080i/p output over component RCA can likely handle that datarate acceptably well.)
> 
> 
> 
> Likely a moot point with most modern displays, though..
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23418268
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with that if it will give you the bit rate you need. The best of them will handle 1080p60 2D and 1080p24 3D with maybe a dropped bit here or there depending on the gear you are using. But if you need more bandwidth than that, you have to go with something like a HDBaseT-based extender. And there is another reason to go with a Cat 5e/6/6a based product, the HDMI plugs are quite fragile. If you damage one, there is really no way of properly replacing it in the field. If the cable is buried in a wall, you are SOL. A single 8P8C plug is much less prone to damage, and if need be, can easily be replaced in the field.


 

Or, if you're like me, you ran too small a conduit and can't get the HDMI connector through it .. 









 

..dane


----------



## Colm

Hey, Dane, long time no see...


----------



## scgt1

I'm glad I ran into this site since I'm having problems streaming to my living room tv. I've tried the wifi stuff and I'm just short of keeping a connection. So I decided to search more and see if there is another form of transporting signal from my pc to living room tv for media streaming.


I picked up two pair of NXG Tech HDMI over single Cat-6 extenders. Can't find the manual on their website for them. NX-HDEXT 115.1 are the model numbers on the back of them for the transmitter and receiver.


I'm running the transmitter from my server through a dvi port on my 9800GT into a short dvi to hdmi adapter then the hdmi cable into the transmitter. Power is connected. Then run into a Cat5e cable. (I know these are stated directly on them for Cat-6. I already had a cat5e ran through the house for my pos lg sp520 media converter.) I'm sure my problem lies in the ethernet cable as I just tried to run the signal straight from my gaming rig (which has an independant HDMI port on it) I arrive with the same problem using it too.


The TV displaces a flickering unsupported signal. check your device output.


This is what is normally on the screen when the video feed is powered off on the Sony Bravia. Say and xbox is powered off etc. I've never seen it flicker before. Its like the signal is trying to make it to the tv but not properly getting there.


Now can this be because of the more then likely obvious..... Not using CAT-6 cable and using CAT5E?


If so shielded is better I assume. It's ran through the attic of a 1953 house so yea. What about the type of cat6?


Cat6

Cat6e

cat6a


I don't want to get in the attic more then once and be dumping money left and right on cables I don't need. This is Texas it gets hot quick in the attic and as stated it's a 1953 house. It's not a cake walk getting around in the attic so having the proper stuff one time works best for me lol.


Might I add that when I use the gaming rig as my source and plug the hdmi out into the transmitter my display on the game rig changes from an active desktop with icons etc to just the desktop wallpaper with a mouse no icons. Not sure if that means anything or not. Neither of my lcd screens have hdmi input so I can't take a short cat6 cable and test one of them as the living room tv. :-( I believe the cat5e cable is only 100' I never measured it tbh.


This one looks closest to my setup yet not there.....


user: pumori

- Source-end: Comcast cable box, OPPO BDP-83

- CatX Adapter: NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 (Amazon, $84.99)

- CatX Cables: Single cable runs (~50 foot and ~35 foot) of CAT6 (UTP, solid-core, Monoprice)

- Far-end: Panasonic PT-AE4000U projector or (old) Viewsonic N3250W LCD

- Resolution(s) tested: 720p, 1080i, 1080p60, 1080p24

- Status: Success

- NOTE: NXG Technology NX-HDEXT160-1 utilizes an EDID for stereo sound only. (see posts 183-191)


I'm running from a computers gpu. That adapter sure looks like the ones I have. Devil is in the cables? Sony Bravia 42". Nothing can't get a picture. Status Up in the air. I know they only run stereo my AV receiver is able to convert to dolby pro.


Got bored this morning and said what the hey. I ran a short Cat5E cable through the hall around the corner to my daughters room. (Maybe 6 ft cable.) It's working to their tv. I assume the cat 5 running through the attic isn't 100' and is more hence why the living room tv appears to want to pick up the signal but doesn't (flashing unsupported device which is what it shows when it isn't getting input.) So I can attempt to run the CAT6 cable I have on its way when it gets here or get a signal amplifier for the HDMI signal.


----------



## scgt1

well my 100' monoprice Cat6 STP cable is out for delivery today........


----------



## AV_Integrated

There is nothing that indicates that what you have is a HD-Base-T solution, but more likely a pre-HD-Base-T solution which is proprietary to some Chinese manufacturer.


If you paid anywhere near $200 for the units, I would return them in a second for a HD-Base-T solution.


Certainly, give the cable you are buying a try, but I have used any number of non-HD-Base-T solutions with nothing but headaches along the way.


----------



## scgt1

What is the difference and how do you know which is which?


I didn't even pay over $20 for them shipped so it's all good.


----------



## scgt1

 http://www.amazon.com/NXG-Technology-NX-HDEXT160-1-Single-Cable/dp/B003E31QXU/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top This is what I picked up on ebay but two sets for sub $20 shipped.


----------



## scgt1

Well after dripping sweat like no other I ran the Cat 6 cable. When I tested the new cable around the corner to my girls tv it had colored lines at first until I picked up the whole spool of 100' cable the lines went away. I shook the cable and nothing changed it was a good picture. So I went ahead and ran the line. Hook up the boxes. I have a picture (occasionally) but it has worse lines then originally on my girls tv. When I say occasionally I mean I can wiggle around the cat cable in the middle between the wall and the converter receiver and it either clears up some of the line noise or makes the screen go black. So My guess is monoprice can't make a cable for %#$#


Could I be wrong? Is it getting interference from the cat 5 line that is still run incase this didn't work I could still use the junky lg sp520. ARG I'm watching a different converter on ebay that is listed for 9.95 BIN which is also powered but is a Direct Connect brand. There is no signal adjustment built into this one either. I think I may need a signal booster maybe these converters don't provide enough power?


I don't have hundreds to do this. I'm working on a limited budget with this ordeal. At least that is what it's becoming an ordeal. TBH I probably could have gotten away with a 75' cable too. I have a bunch of it laying on the office floor because I wasn't about to run it through the cable routing stuff in here if I was going to be sending it back.


----------



## AV_Integrated

Unfortunately, if you are shooting for HD quality over a long distance run, then that's the current price for it. In a few years it may be common place and it may be well under $100 for a pair, but right now your solution is to either pay the money for that reliable solution, or to continue to buy products which are spotty, or get lucky with one which works...


Or move the gear closer.


I'm right there with you in wanting it to be less money, but that's just not the case and there are truly NO better solutions for anywhere near that price. There just aren't. I've tried about 20 different HDMI extenders and they have universally been dodgy, or worse, and when I tried HD-Base-T it really changed the entire picture. So, I guess you return what you can and think about what it is you want to do.


I would expect that at a lower resolution, like 1080i or 720p you should be able to get a signal, so if that doesn't work I would return the units. It does look like they have gain control knobs on them, so have you played with those to see if that helps/hurts things? Not confident, but I have been there with the looking for solutions issues.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23474243
> 
> 
> Could I be wrong


I suspect there is nothing wrong with either your old cable or your new cable. FWIW cables other than short patch cables should be solid core, not stranded, and no longer than necessary.


If you want to make this work painlessly, get a HDBaseT-based extender. Even at shorter distances than you are trying to run, anything else is a crap shoot at best.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV_Integrated*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23474388
> 
> 
> I've tried about 20 different HDMI extenders and they have universally been dodgy, or worse, and when I tried HD-Base-T it really changed the entire picture.



Wow, you certainly tested alot of devices. Did you start a thread? If not, I am curious what you wound up with, and if you tried any of the solutions offered by Monoprice. Also, what is the time period in which you performed the testing?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## AI Limited

Monoprice is getting closer to meeting my needs...


HDBaseT extender:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10914&cs_id=1091401&p_id=10225&seq=1&format=2 


HDBaseT 4x2 matrix:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10914&cs_id=1091403&p_id=10226&seq=1&format=2


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22879532
> 
> 
> Wow, a nearly $1000 solution is cost effective, I never thought I'd hear that.  but I suppose it entirely depends on your setup-- The link you provided is an EIGHT (8!!!) output matrix.  If you've really got that many displays, then I suppose $1000 distribution solution really is cost effective!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *adk highlander*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/270#post_22935945
> 
> 
> That is the most reasonably priced piece I have seen...



I see it at $1150 without any receivers... did the price go up?


and then there is this one for $1k...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-4x4-HDBaseT-Pro-Video-Matrix-Switcher-over-CAT5e-CAT6-PC-Mac-Manual-control-/281103495120 


Is all still well in the world of Jakeyb?


----------



## scgt1

Had a wild hair and hooked the new monoprice cable up to my router and the other end to the cheeseball media converter last night and it worked just fine so I would assume it isn't the cable. Which in turn since these cat6 boxes worked just fine with a cat 5e cable to my girls room that it doesn't matter cat5e or cat6 even though the boxes specifically state cat6. So My guess would be the cable is too long for them to properly send the signal without a hdmi extender.


Do cat5e and cat6 cables use the same ends? I have a bunch of cat5e connectors to where I could just cut the cable to the length I need and go with it seeing if the shorter cable works. If that doesn't I would assume I need an extender or different boxes.


Like I said a few posts ago around the corner into my girls room the image and sound was perfect on the short cat5e cable. So the boxes work they just don't power enough I guess.


This is all new to me so yea.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Scgt1 you asked 'What is the difference and how do you know which is which?'.


HDMI is non packetised so presents a much higher bandwidth signal than conventional IP data traveling over CAT cables.


The low cost single wire HDMI over CAT solutions have to somehow 'fudge' the HDMI signal to get it to run over 4 pairs in a CAT cable (remember there are 19 pins in an HDMI connector) and as such are a very non standard solution.


HDBaseT packetises the HDMI signal using a power hungry and hot running Transmiter and Receiver chip which will get you out to (up to) 100m and has been ratified by HDMI org.


Unfortunately HDBaseT has a rather odd marketing strategy - once you pay your adopters Fee ($$$$$) they then want more money out of you before you can say you are using it/slap the Logo on your kit/packaging so at the lower end of the market where manufacturers are trying to keep costs down you may not see the HDBaseT logo even if the kit is using it!


Best option is to ask the supplier/manufacture.


Joe


----------



## AI Limited




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23481078
> 
> 
> Had a wild hair and hooked the new monoprice cable up to my router and the other end to the cheeseball media converter last night and it worked just fine so I would assume it isn't the cable. Which in turn since these cat6 boxes worked just fine with a cat 5e cable to my girls room that it doesn't matter cat5e or cat6 even though the boxes specifically state cat6. So My guess would be the cable is too long for them to properly send the signal without a hdmi extender.



Sort of... it DOES matter if you use cat5e or cat6, but only a distance greater than which the cat5e works. In other words, at short distances, I'm not surprised that either will work. At a longer distance, you are much more likely to run into the limitations of the cat5e than the cat6.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23481078
> 
> 
> Do cat5e and cat6 cables use the same ends? I have a bunch of cat5e connectors to where I could just cut the cable to the length I need and go with it seeing if the shorter cable works. If that doesn't I would assume I need an extender or different boxes.



Typically they both use regular rj45 connectors. If you step up to cat6a (augmented) then I definitely recommend the cat6a version of the rj45 connector otherwise you will have great difficulty terminating the cable properly. Cat6a is not worth investing in. I ran augmented all throughout my house for my LAN along side regular cat6, but now I wish I had just run multiple runs of regular cat6.


----------



## scgt1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AI Limited*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23484818
> 
> 
> Sort of... it DOES matter if you use cat5e or cat6, but only a distance greater than which the cat5e works. In other words, at short distances, I'm not surprised that either will work. At a longer distance, you are much more likely to run into the limitations of the cat5e than the cat6.
> 
> Typically they both use regular rj45 connectors. If you step up to cat6a (augmented) then I definitely recommend the cat6a version of the rj45 connector otherwise you will have great difficulty terminating the cable properly. Cat6a is not worth investing in. I ran augmented all throughout my house for my LAN along side regular cat6, but now I wish I had just run multiple runs of regular cat6.



What is the distance range for Cat5e?

If I'm not mistaken they are both 100' cable runs. I know the Cat6 is at least I purchased 100'. lol


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23485104
> 
> 
> What is the distance range for Cat5e?
> 
> If I'm not mistaken they are both 100' cable runs. I know the Cat6 is at least I purchased 100'. lol



I will just while plentiful nowadays, not all Category cable (5e, 6, 6e, etc.) is created equal, nor do all cable manufacturers test their products. For me, I only purchase Belden cable, as their products are tested, some are patented (bonded pair), and (as a bonus) it is made in the USA. Perhaps the category cable may not matter as much in this application (sinks on both ends), but I thought I would throw that out there.


Mark


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23481078
> 
> 
> Do cat5e and cat6 cables use the same ends?


Yes and no. They are 8P8C modular plugs (commonly referred to as RJ45). But the plugs and jacks for Cat 6 and Cat 6a are specifically designed for the higher performance requirements of those cables. And there are plugs designed for stranded wire, solid wire, or both. Ideally, you would use a shielded Cat 6a plug on your Cat 6a cable just like you already have. That doesn't mean you cannot try making a shorter cable with the plugs you have. It will either work or not. You can go on from there.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23485273
> 
> 
> ...not all Category cable (5e, 6, 6e, etc.) is created equal...


Right on.


> Quote:
> I only purchase Belden cable...


Always a safe choice. There are others.


> Quote:
> ...it is made in the USA.


Well, some of it, anyway.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23485104
> 
> 
> What is the distance range for Cat5e?


Depends on the use. For 100BaseT ethernet, 100m. For your devices, you will have to ask the manufacturer. Cat 6 and Cat 6a are designed to tighter specifications and will work at longer distances than Cat 5e for a given bit rate for a given application.


----------



## AV_Integrated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300#post_23475590
> 
> 
> Wow, you certainly tested alot of devices. Did you start a thread? If not, I am curious what you wound up with, and if you tried any of the solutions offered by Monoprice. Also, what is the time period in which you performed the testing?
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Mark


I wasn't really posting here and doing formal HDMI testing. I've used units from Gefen, Extron, Aurora Multimedia, Xantech, and of course Monoprice. A few others that I'm forgetting as well. This was all a couple of years ago and included pretty much everything Monoprice had at the time as they were (and still are) one of my favorites to work with.


The cheaper Monoprice stuff proved effective to 1080i resolutions using the dual cat-x powered designs. The wall-plate units which are powered off the +5v of the HDMI was always a bit spotty, and never would consistently give me good results. I ended up just tossing a bunch of them for their poor reliability and consistency. The powered units I still have in place in a couple of installations and they do a solid job up to 1080i. But, I never got 1080p to work with them at all.


My main testing of these units was due to a client who had a analog system installed with no ability to retro wires in, so it was probably 5 or 6 years ago that I needed to utilize his cat-5e cables to get HDMI from a head-end to his display. Until HD-Base-T came along, I had success, but never really solid results for the long haul.


I've now used a dozen or so Monoprice HD-Base-T units along with AMX, Crestron, PureLink, Extron, etc. and they have all performed similarly well. The Monoprice ones are definitely not built as well, and I've seen a few of their power supplies fail when the units themselves have been fine. Makes the unit look like it is bad if you don't have a spare power supply handy. I have seen bad product out of the box from many other manufacturers as well, so I don't give any specific winners out there for reliability... Well, except maybe PureLink which offers a non-HD-Base-T single cat-x solution which predates HD-Base-T and works phenomenally well. It's around $600 or so for a pair, so it's very expensive, but we have used them in museums and other 24/7 mission critical installations.


Personally I just go with HDMI cable at about 50' - the thick stuff from Monoprice, and the Monoprice HD-Base-T extenders and I have been really happy with the results I've gotten. Pretty sure I bought one of the very first that Monoprice ever got in and it's still running well.


----------



## freddych

I am using the monoprice 4x4 matrix, that uses 2 Cat5e cables in my home. I was having issues with only the longest run, which I estimate to be around 150-200 feet, getting minor artifacts every once in a while. I swapped that specific line out using the HDMI out for the monoprice HD Base T extender and now it works beautifully.


4x4 Matrix:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011310&p_id=8151&seq=1&format=2 


HDBaseT extender:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2


----------



## lozenp

Hey all,


I've seen conflicting stories, for about a 25-35 ft. HDMI run, is it worth the effort to go over Cat 5e or would a 35-ft. HDMI cable work fine for 1080p/3D to an Epson projector from an as-yet unpurchased AV receiver?


----------



## Colm

You can get a 25' certified high speed HDMI cable, which means it should handle anything in the HDMI specification. You won't find a certified high speed cable much longer than 25'. A decent 35' 22-24 AWG HDMI cable should handle 1080p60 2D, and 1080p24 3D from a BD player, at 24 bits just fine. It will likely handle 36 bit Deep Color. If you are thinking about 1080p60 3D for gaming, a passive HDMI cable may not have sufficient bandwidth to be reliable. The required bandwidth is close to the maximum for HDMI.


----------



## Roberyu

*Warning: This is LONG, and poorly written, so read-on if you want to torture yourself...*


I'm going to relay my experiences with HDMI extension in conjunction with matrix switching. Iv'e finally gotten to a place I'm reasonably happy, and here's the ugly path...


I have 3 bedrooms and a livingroom I needed to share my cable provider supplied DVR, along with an XBMC box, and a couple more sources. A 4x4 matrix was decided upon because of the major pricing gulf between 4x4 and 8x8 solutions that really work.


I liked the value and performance of my Monoprice cables, so I started there even though a couple of 4x2 matrices I tried earlier did not work out (syncing issues, EDID issues, etc.). I chose this unit: http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011310&p_id=8151&seq=1&format=2 


I had earlier tried their 8x1 splitter over 2xCAT6 (each run, 4 runs), and that unit worked fairly solid except for the blanking and re-syncing of all displays whenever a new device came onlne. I was willing to live with that and a couple of other annoying glitches, so on to the 4x4 matrix over CAT6 from Monoprice I went.


What I trial of my sanity that was!! It was the same crappy experience I've had with my other Monoprice HDMI matrices, and worse. Problems like blank-out and re-sync of any of the destinations when another came on line when powered up, or switched from or to, and more than half the time things did not-re-sync correctly. Many of these failed re-sync to one or more (destinations) sinks during switching/powering events, required the cycling of power to the main matrix units or the destination CATx receiver units to get things working. Once everything was up and sync'd, then everything worked well... until the next switching even triggered a re-sync. This was maddening, but I lived with it until the main matrix finally stopped sending video to destinations about 9 months after purchase. Likely just a power supply, but I think I'll just round-file that POS anyway.


I'm sure some of you are thinking I could have cabling issues on either the cat6 or HDMI side of things. That is not the case. I'm using very good quality hight-speed HDMI cables, and I'm very experienced with CAT6 termination, and installation. I also tested out the CAT6 runs ,and they passed with flying colors, with the longest run of 70 linear feet reported by the tester. Also, it is important to note the pains I took to enhance my chances of success when trying to share HDMI sources to several destinations. There are no displays connected directly, and all destinations are late model Denon lossless-capable receivers with 1080p/24/30/60 displays connected. On the EDID lowest-common denominator playing field, I should be all good, and besides, it all sync'd up eventually with much fiddly work with power-cycling matrix components.


I ended up calling HDTV Supply to just relay my experiences, and see if their more expensive units would get me something more reliable, without costing the $3K that seemed common on their site. The guy told me that value-wise, it may be better to just go with a straight matrix and convert to CAT6 externally. A bit more equipment mess, but I can hide that. I ended up getting the 4x4 Shinybow HD-44 with the single CATx extenders you can select as an option when ordering. The whole thing cost me about $600 with 4 extenders. I thought he was exaggerating when he said it would all be rock solid like a tank with no glitches. That is a BOLD statement regarding HDMI extension and distribution. I guess I was biased from my experiences with lesser equipment, because I could have never imagined what I ended up with...


I installed the matrix, extenders, and all of my existing equipment, using the same cables I was all along. I was in utter shock that I was getting absolutely rock solid switching and extension of my HDMI sources. There was zero blanking or re-syncing of any of my destinations from other sinks coming online, switching in or out of any of the sources, etc. I mean no glitches at all period, on any of the destinations, regardless of what any other destination was doing. It was like all of the HDCP and EDID complications vanished from my HDMI switching/distribution experience, and I did not think that was possible, much less at the -$1K price point. Shinybow matrices seem to be solid beyond my wildest expectations, and the single catx extenders HD Supply provides with the HD-44 are sofar solid, even though they are not likely HDBaseT ($80/set).


I'm not trying to sell anybody of how I did things, or peddle HDTV Supply stuff, or bad mouth Monoprice. Just wanted to relay the path, and where I ended up. I still use Monoprice cables, but their matrix units have been "kind of works, with lots of quirks" at best, and downright maddening at their worst. Okay, so the solution I ended upo with was twice as much, but the experience (or lack thereof) is so darn worth it. I usually spend the real money where it matters, but sure went the wrong way at first on my HDMI distribution. I'm just happy for now, and will wait for solid 8x8 solutions come down in price before I change from the setup I have now.


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roberyu*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23490788
> 
> 
> ...passed with flying colors, with the longest run of 70 linear feet reported by the tester...


Got a TDR, eh?


Nothing wrong with plugging HDTV Supply. They are another reliable supplier and carry things monoprice doesn't.


I suspect the difference in results is due to the extenders and not the matrix. Dual cable extenders have a pretty spotty record. Single cable extenders seem to work more consistently, I think at least in part due to the fact that it requires a bit more engineering to get all the signals through on a single cable.


----------



## scgt1

UPDATE


I ran the 100' monoprice cat 6 cable the rest of the way in the office behind the desks to where I could see how much I really needed. I hacked off the end I don't need (probably 25') Spliced a new end on hooked the boxes back up and viola picture with minimal Lines. Had a wild hair and changed the desktop resolution to 1280x768 and the lines went away. I've tried to set the tv side to 720p resolution and the computer display to 1680x1080 (native monitor max) and it keeps changing the output resolution. I don't know if this is an nvidia issue in the control panel or what but it's annoying as hell needing to keep my computer resolution so low just to make the tv work.


So obviously I need a repeater because it's not holding up over the 75' or so run meaning the cables are too long or just junk monoprice stuff or the boxes aren't that great of quality. One or the other who knows. I think I'll take my chances with a repeater though.


Should it get hooked up computer side or tv side though? Any tips on a decent powered repeater that isn't an arm and a leg?


----------



## Colm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scgt1*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23499955
> 
> 
> ...decent powered repeater...


IMHO there aren't any. You need a good extender setup or an active cable.


----------



## dminches

This thread has a lot of information - thanks.


I didn't see any mention of the Gefen extenders. Is that because one can get the job done with less expensive units?


My issue is that my HDMI cable feeds my projector from a point right below my screen, through the wall and ceiling. However, now I have a new Bryston SP-3 and I want to run all the HDMI out of it. Unfortunately, the cable isn't long enough so I think I need to add an extender from the SP-3 to the cable location. The total distance is only about 15 feet. I can't think of another way to connect the 2.


----------



## audiodane


Just coming back to check on things, and wow, this place has really taken off!  So many helpful comments far beyond what I could ever offer and so many people now involved who have really tried a lot of things out.  Thanks so much to everyone who's participating in this topic!

 

 

 

..dane


----------



## cjett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roberyu*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23490788
> 
> *Warning: This is LONG, and poorly written, so read-on if you want to torture yourself...*
> 
> I ended up calling HDTV Supply to just relay my experiences, and see if their more expensive units would get me something more reliable, without costing the $3K that seemed common on their site. The guy told me that value-wise, it may be better to just go with a straight matrix and convert to CAT6 externally. A bit more equipment mess, but I can hide that. I ended up getting the 4x4 Shinybow HD-44 with the single CATx extenders you can select as an option when ordering. The whole thing cost me about $600 with 4 extenders. I thought he was exaggerating when he said it would all be rock solid like a tank with no glitches. That is a BOLD statement regarding HDMI extension and distribution. I guess I was biased from my experiences with lesser equipment, because I could have never imagined what I ended up with...
> 
> 
> I installed the matrix, extenders, and all of my existing equipment, using the same cables I was all along. I was in utter shock that I was getting absolutely rock solid switching and extension of my HDMI sources. There was zero blanking or re-syncing of any of my destinations from other sinks coming online, switching in or out of any of the sources, etc. I mean no glitches at all period, on any of the destinations, regardless of what any other destination was doing. It was like all of the HDCP and EDID complications vanished from my HDMI switching/distribution experience, and I did not think that was possible, much less at the -$1K price point. Shinybow matrices seem to be solid beyond my wildest expectations, and the single catx extenders HD Supply provides with the HD-44 are sofar solid, even though they are not likely HDBaseT ($80/set).
> 
> .



Roberyu - can you post a link to the Shinybow and Catx extenders you purchased? I looked for a shinybow hd-44 and I don't see any such beast in their product list. Thanks in advance.


----------



## EricN




> Quote:
> It was this one: http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-router.html#axzz2ZKsvXGq9



From: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1234516/why-i-will-never-ever-ever-buy-from-hdtvsupply-com#post_23537657


----------



## edwardscp

Source-end: Onkyo TX-SR606 A/V Receiver

CatX Adapter: Monoprice HDMI® Over CAT5E / CAT6 Extender Wall Plate (Pair) w/ Built-In Backward IR Channel 

CatX Cables: 30 foot Cat6a STP Patch cables (recommended by Monoprice)

Far-end: Sharp 60" LE757

Resolution(s) tested: 1080

Status: unsuccessful


It works if I connect the video source (U-Verse STB, blueray player, etc) directly to the wall plate without the Receiver in between. Unfortunately, that doesn't work for me because I use the receiver to output to surround speakers. I talked to monoprice, and they told me that these wall plates are not designed to be used with a Receiver, and that I would need to get an HDBaseT device or wall plate if I needed to use the receiver.


I contacted Tripp Lite's tech support to ask them if a similar HDMI to Cat5/6 wall plate from them has the same limitation, and they also said that their product would not work with a receiver.


Does anyone know the technical reason why the signal can't come from a receiver? If my understanding is correct, my receiver is an HDMI repeater (not just an HDMI switcher), so I would assume the signal coming from it is just as strong (in terms of volts) as the signal coming out of a cable box or dvd player...so what's the deal?


----------



## Joe Fernand

When you talk about the AVR being a ‘Repeater’ that is in relation to how it gets involved with the HDCP (Content Encryption) handshake process - not an indication of it ‘boosting’ signal voltages.




__ https://www.facebook.com/TheMediaFactory/posts/294738857305184



The second problem you are running into with the Wall Plates are that the design you are looking at are (badly) labelled as being Passive – they are not passive they are simply replying on your Source outputting enough power on the HDMI signal bus to power the wall plate electronics without interfering with powering the EDID chip in the TV (the job the power is designed for) and most AVRs won’t play ball!


Joe


----------



## edwardscp




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joe Fernand*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23578950
> 
> 
> When you talk about the AVR being a ‘Repeater’ that is in relation to how it gets involved with the HDCP (Content Encryption) handshake process - not an indication of it ‘boosting’ signal voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/TheMediaFactory/posts/294738857305184
> 
> 
> 
> The second problem you are running into with the Wall Plates are that the design you are looking at are (badly) labelled as being Passive – they are not passive they are simply replying on your Source outputting enough power on the HDMI signal bus to power the wall plate electronics without interfering with powering the EDID chip in the TV (the job the power is designed for) and most AVRs won’t play ball!
> 
> 
> Joe



Interesting...thanks for the insight! Any recommendations on a solution? HDBaseT is very expensive...is it the only reliable way to do this?


Unfortunately, I can't easily run new cables. I would need to make a whole lot of holes in newly hung, and taped, and painted sheet rock. If I had known these wall plates don't play ball, I would have probably also run HDMI cable in the wall, and run it all through conduit so I could easily pull new stuff later.


----------



## Joe Fernand

HDBaseT is very stable - especially so on longer cable runs, though you can still run into handshake problems due to HDCP interoperability.


Dual CAT done correctly is also very stable - though you are limiting your choices big time if you insist on the wall plate format.


We have thousands of these devices running without issues (including on the Output side of Onkyo AVR’s) - http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20ethernet%20converters.html 


Joe


----------



## Chrushev

Hello everyone, we bought a house and I wanted to run all of the A/V and gaming equipment out of a closet. I have 4 total runs.


Here is my overall setup:











My goal is to get 1 to 4 devices to broadcast to any one of 3 places in the house (Dining Room, Living Room and Master bedroom).


I ran dual 23AWG CAT6 500MHz UTP (monoprice ID# 8102) cable through the attic to all of the locations, terminated them with T568A standard. Because of how the attic is set up I have the runs come within about a foot of some power lines, there is no way to really get around that, there are just power lines all over the attic.


I got HDMI via CAT6 wall plates (Monoprice ID 8009) and tested it with my longest run (Closet -> Dining room) by hooking up WDTV straight into the wall plate in the closet. Worked perfectly, no drop outs, everything was running as if the run was 3 feet via HDMI







Was super satisfied.


I proceeded to hook up rest of the runs and everything worked great when devices were hooked up into the wall plates directly (tested with Xbox 360 and WDTV).


I was finalizing my setup and connected everything through the Matrix switch 4x4 from monoprice (ID# 5704 - 4X4 True Matrix HDMI® Powered Switch w/ Remote (Rev. 3.0)) everything seems to work fine; however if I flip the lights near the center of the house the signal will either drop or have a hickup (for 2-5 seconds). With 2 particualr light switches completely cutting the video in the dining room (while master bedroom gets artifacting). Not all switches effect it the same, some just flicker the signal, but these two (can lights in the living room) completely cut the signal to the dining room.


I also noticed that if I hook up just the Dining room to the Matrix switch then those same lights that would cut the signal completely (black screen) now interrupt it for about 5 seconds but then the picture comes back. So the more outputs Matrix is splitting to the worse the problem gets. A/C kicking in doesnt seem to cause any kind of issue.


Now the kicker is that when I plug the devices directly into the HDMI wall plates (bypassing the Matrix) there are absolutely no issues, ive had my fiance and I flip all of the problematic switches at once back and forth like 100 times as fast as we could... perfect signal, no dropouts.


I figured that the issue may be the power in the plates (signal getting split and losing strength in the matrix) so I purchased powered plates from monoprice (ID# 8200), plugged in 5v power on both ends, same exact behavior.


I am using 5foot 24 AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI cables for all connections (monoprice ID# 4966) but they seem to perform the same as standard 28 AWG cables.


Now here are my conclusions. Since the wallplates + CAT6 works perfectly with the device plugged in directly into them, it doesnt seem like the cabling or the plates are an issue (especially since powering the plates doesnt make a difference).


The issue is clearly between the Matrix and the wall plate. How do I solve this? Its not the signal strength right? because powering plates externally makes no difference...


I considered the following,

- Rerunning CAT6 with shielded CAT6, but based on my testing CAT6 runs dont seem to be the problem? And based on my research shielded cable tends to do little if anything in a household environment and is really meant for heavy duty factory environments.

- Getting different HDMI extenders - again, based on my testing it doesnt seem like these are the issue since they work fine without the Matrix powered and unpowered (and trying 3 different sets yielded same results, although they seem to use similar tech. monoprice IDs 8008, 8009, 8200)

- Trying to make the run shorter by cutting off 5 to 10 feet of slack I left in the attic, but I am doubtful this will help? Dining room being a bit longer run does behave worse than master bedroom, but Im thinking that is the end device (TV) dealing with messed up signal differently, one displays artifacts (Vizio 47 inch tv in master, other ASUS 24 inch monitor just showing black screen when signal has problems in dining room).

- Re-terminating CAT6 with T568B since thats what all the materials seem to indicate (but I think they are just out of date), did this on both ends of dining room run, same exact results (doesnt make a difference).


And more costly solution would be to go with http://www.hdtvsupply.com/4x4-hdmi-router.html#axzz2ZKsvXGq9 that was mentioned in one of the above posts and hope that it works better... that solution would be around $600, while my current solution is about $250. I am really hoping to be able to fix this, because 99% of the puzzle works fine, its just adding the Matrix to the picture that is causing problems. I am on a budget and would like to get this done for under $300 but if spending $600 means I will get much better products (more features and performance) then I could stretch my budget there... but I really rather not, if I can get this to work id rather upgrade to better solutions 5 years down the road when they are much cheaper.


Ive been trying to troubleshoot this for about a week, read through this entire thread, very useful and informative! Pretty crazy that were still dealing with the same issues 3 (almost 4) years later!


Any kind of feedback would be appreciated!


----------



## AV_Integrated

Monoprice's cheap wallplates are hit or miss and when running through any type of receiver or switcher they become far more spotty then reliable. The issue is, as an educated guess, entirely in the wall plates you are using, and not with anything else at all.


I would option up to a HD-Base-T solution to see if it fixes all of your issues, because I would expect it to.


This product falls into an entirely different category of quality compared to what you are currently using and is the industry standard for long run HDMI over cat cabling:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2


----------



## Chrushev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV_Integrated*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23582993
> 
> 
> Monoprice's cheap wallplates are hit or miss and when running through any type of receiver or switcher they become far more spotty then reliable. The issue is, as an educated guess, entirely in the wall plates you are using, and not with anything else at all.
> 
> 
> I would option up to a HD-Base-T solution to see if it fixes all of your issues, because I would expect it to.
> 
> 
> This product falls into an entirely different category of quality compared to what you are currently using and is the industry standard for long run HDMI over cat cabling:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2



But why is it that the plates work just fine without the Matrix Switch? What is it that happens with the signal inside the Matrix? Why cant it just output the same exact signal it receives? That signal is good enough for the plates since there are no issues at all with using just the plates without the Matrix Switch...


Id love to go to HD-Base-T solution but those are crazy expensive! These seem to be rated to 6 times the distance I need to run. Are there perhaps cheaper ones rated for shorter distances? I need to run 50-60 feet maximum, and dont need to pay premium for 300 foot extenders.


----------



## markrubin

^^^


you should try one HD-Base-T device: you can always return it if it does not work


none of the other solutions you list are likely to fix the issue: and they are a lot more work and more expensive


----------



## Geoff0522

Ok, I am just about fed up. I have a 25 foot run in my RV from the entertainment system to the TV and I started with a wireless system to get HDMI there. That worked ok but it was slow to connect when I switched from DirectV DVR to Tivo to Blueray player, so I purchaed an inexpensive HDMI to Cat5e system which worke well, right out of the box, using 25 foot hook-up cables (braided, not solid, in-wall cabling). That was good for a couple months, and then a close-by lightning strike caused it to fail. I had to check all of my components but eventually I determined everything was working right except for the HDMI signal to the TV.


So, I went back to using the wireless setup and it worked fine. Eventually, I wanted to get back to the wired set up, so I purchased new HDMI - Cat5e baluns and, no signal. So I replaced the two Cat5e cables I used for the run. No signal. Now I have purchased yet another set of baluns, these ones have a power connection on the receiver end and...no signal. I have tried sending the signal to a different TV and...no signal. It works fine using the wireless system and I am just replacing the wireless transmitter and receiver with the wired baluns and cables and...no signal. Looks like I am stuck with the wireless set up but I would like to try to understand why this is no longer working. Am I just stuck with a bunch of garbage component purchases? Any ideas out there?


The new baluns are from Sabrent. The old ones (both sets) were just generic. No apparent manufacturer listed on them at all.


----------



## Chrushev

I am looking at this HDbaseT solution from Monoprice, seems to be the cheapest solution available out there ($190) per receiver/sender pair. These units are from 2011, how are there no newer/better solutions on Monoprice with PoE and ARC etc? And how have they not redesigned those obnoxious IR dongles?


link - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2


----------



## AV_Integrated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chrushev*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23583603
> 
> 
> I am looking at this HDbaseT solution from Monoprice, seems to be the cheapest solution available out there ($190) per receiver/sender pair. These units are from 2011, how are there no newer/better solutions on Monoprice with PoE and ARC etc? And how have they not redesigned those obnoxious IR dongles?
> 
> 
> link - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8122&seq=1&format=2


Yes, those are the ones I have linked to above and they work phenomenally well. I have personally tested them to beyond 300' with 1080p video over a single cat-5e connection.


----------



## AV_Integrated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Geoff0522*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23583285
> 
> 
> Ok, I am just about fed up. I have a 25 foot run in my RV from the entertainment system to the TV and I started with a wireless system to get HDMI there. That worked ok but it was slow to connect when I switched from DirectV DVR to Tivo to Blueray player, so I purchaed an inexpensive HDMI to Cat5e system which worke well, right out of the box, using 25 foot hook-up cables (braided, not solid, in-wall cabling). That was good for a couple months, and then a close-by lightning strike caused it to fail. I had to check all of my components but eventually I determined everything was working right except for the HDMI signal to the TV.
> 
> 
> So, I went back to using the wireless setup and it worked fine. Eventually, I wanted to get back to the wired set up, so I purchased new HDMI - Cat5e baluns and, no signal. So I replaced the two Cat5e cables I used for the run. No signal. Now I have purchased yet another set of baluns, these ones have a power connection on the receiver end and...no signal. I have tried sending the signal to a different TV and...no signal. It works fine using the wireless system and I am just replacing the wireless transmitter and receiver with the wired baluns and cables and...no signal. Looks like I am stuck with the wireless set up but I would like to try to understand why this is no longer working. Am I just stuck with a bunch of garbage component purchases? Any ideas out there?
> 
> 
> The new baluns are from Sabrent. The old ones (both sets) were just generic. No apparent manufacturer listed on them at all.


At 25' can you not just run a good HDMI cable? I'm using HDMI cables at 50'+ without any issues whatsoever.


The cheapie wallplate adapters are weak, to poor, to worthless in my experience - and I've been using them for years.


----------



## Geoff0522




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AV_Integrated*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23584079
> 
> 
> At 25' can you not just run a good HDMI cable? I'm using HDMI cables at 50'+ without any issues whatsoever.
> 
> 
> The cheapie wallplate adapters are weak, to poor, to worthless in my experience - and I've been using them for years.



I tried a $40, 25 foot HDMI cable from Lowes and the signal would cut out every so often. For the Blueray output, it would blink on and off continuously. Since this method is supposed to work to 200 feet, I assumed it would be "good enough".


----------



## Joe Fernand

Crushev


HDMI Extenders – ditch any ‘passive only’ designs, that’s just asking for trouble.


Try powering everything Off at the wall then hook up a single source to the Matrix and the Matrix to just one of your (externally powered) Extender wall plates then power on the TV, Wall Plate, Matrix and Source – do you still have the problem with the image cutting out when you flick a light switch?


If yes you may want to look at installing a system earth and connect it to the Matrix.


Joe


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Geoff0522*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23584766
> 
> 
> I tried a $40, 25 foot HDMI cable from Lowes and the signal would cut out every so often. For the Blueray output, it would blink on and off continuously. Since this method is supposed to work to 200 feet, I assumed it would be "good enough".



For that run, a 25' Redmere cable from Monoprice would be the right answer... That will work more reliably than a non-Redmere cable for this application. And the cable is physically small, too. Make sure you install it in the correct direction (that matters!!!).


----------



## Chrushev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joe Fernand*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23585121
> 
> 
> Crushev
> 
> 
> HDMI Extenders – ditch any ‘passive only’ designs, that’s just asking for trouble.
> 
> 
> Try powering everything Off at the wall then hook up a single source to the Matrix and the Matrix to just one of your (externally powered) Extender wall plates then power on the TV, Wall Plate, Matrix and Source – do you still have the problem with the image cutting out when you flick a light switch?
> 
> 
> If yes you may want to look at installing a system earth and connect it to the Matrix.
> 
> 
> Joe



Thanks for the input Joe.


Yes tuning everything off and turning on Matrix, source, powered plates and TV still causes those dropout with the lights, but not as bad as with 2 destinations (2 TVs) it seems that the more destination devices there are the worse it gets. I am assuming its because now instead of one 50 foot run getting effected by some sort of electic discharge from the house grid now there is another set, which amplifies the problem.


Last night I terminated 2 50 foot cables with 568B standard, and simply ran them across the house on the floor. Same exact behavior as in the wall cable (aka works perfectly until i go switching light switches in the house). Tried powering the plates on either end too, no difference. There is nothing below the floor (concrete slab), whole 8-15 feet before the closest cables in the ceiling, and drywall and at least 5 feet to the closest in wall wiring. Basically confirming my fear, re-running wire is not going to help, and shielded wire is probably not going to do it either. So I put in an order for 4 of those HDbaseT Monoprice extenders (Monoprice ID 8122). They should be here tomorrow. I will report back with my experience. Original solution was $250, but it appears that in order to get anything remotely good this kind of project needs at least $1000 budget







... I guess a good analogy would be wiring the entire house for X amount of money with 10baseT hubs, versus wiring it with Gigabit switches for X*10. First option works but in order to do it the right way you need to spend more...


Can anyone elaborate on why wall plate (non HDbaseT) extenders are not so good? I mean there are 2x CAT6 cables, potential for 20Gbps bandwidth, power on both ends to boost the signal, yet they still have issues? Why? It seems like they should be the ideal setup? I mean there is enough cable for any kind of bandwidth between the 2 cables and there is power on both ends to boost any signal loss.


Also can anyone elaborate on how HDbaseT manages to cram 10 times the bandwidth of an HDMI connection into 4x twisted pair? HDMI has 19 pins, some of them are not used, why does HDMI use so many pins if the same thing can be accomplished with less than half? Also how is there no compression if the HDbaseT has to change the signal to make it fit into a CAT6 pipe?


Thanks!


PS - according to my research (and wayback machine) it appears that HDbaseT solutions have stayed statically priced ever since they came out (at least on Monoprice, which is at least 1/2 of the price of any other place). I am guessing this is due to these kind of setups being primarily used in businesses (where budgets are in thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars), and on top of that these set ups being kind of niche, so the demand is not really there for mass production and price competitiveness. Extenders I bought are 189$ per pair August 1/2013, they were 189$ a pair in 2011 when they came out (I guess you could say that they are a few bucks cheaper due to inflation and 189$ not being worth as much as it did in 2011 but thats pennies). Basically what I am trying to say is that if anyone is waiting to pull the trigger on HDbaseT for a few years for prices to drop, it doesnt look like that will happen anytime soon... businesses would love to spend this little money on them, home owners going for them are few and far in between... so yeah.. just a thought...


----------



## Joe Fernand

_‘Can anyone elaborate on why wall plate (non HDbaseT) extenders are not so good?’_ – because some of them are poorly designed and implemented, you cannot say they are all poor quality based on sampling just one brand!


HDBaseT packetizes the HDMI signal to send it out over your CAT cable in manageable chunks – unlike HDMI which is non-Packetized, the down side being you produce a lot of heat with HDBaseT!

http://www.valens.com/products 


Joe


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chrushev*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23585836
> 
> 
> Can anyone elaborate on why wall plate (non HDbaseT) extenders are not so good? I mean there are 2x CAT6 cables, potential for 20Gbps bandwidth, power on both ends to boost the signal, yet they still have issues? Why? It seems like they should be the ideal setup? I mean there is enough cable for any kind of bandwidth between the 2 cables and there is power on both ends to boost any signal loss.



It's a blanket statement about those types of products. In general, the wallplate-based ones don't seem to work as well. YMMV. But there's a high count of questions here that start with "I have an HDMI wallplate extender that's not working very well..."


> Quote:
> Also can anyone elaborate on how HDbaseT manages to cram 10 times the bandwidth of an HDMI connection into 4x twised pair? HDMI has 19 pins, some of them are not used, why does HDMI use so many pins if the same thing can be accomplished with less than half? Also how is there no compression if the HDbaseT has to change the signal to make it fit into a CAT6 pipe?



The HDMI-over-cat5 extenders are just adapting the HDMI signals to the different cable type. HDBaseT works completely differently, by borrowing the 10Gb Ethernet transceiver technology to send the HDMI datastream over the single cat5e/cat6 cable. Since it's building the stream, it can also insert the other stuff into the mix (100Mb Ethernet packets, IR, RS232).


The reason HDBaseT can do this on one category cable compared to the big HDMI connector/cable is that it's about a decade newer. Moore's Law and all that. I'm sure the Valens guys would love to fully replace all HDMI connections with HDBaseT, which would be a compelling story for all of us. Speaking to them at their booth once, they also confirmed that the chip(s) are smart enough and wired correctly to be able to tell the difference between a "normal" Ethernet connection and an HDBaseT one. So the TV manufacturers that already put the Ethernet jack on board for Internet access wouldn't even need to add a jack - one RJ45 can do double-duty.


> Quote:
> PS - according to my research (and wayback machine) it appears that HDbaseT solutions have stayed statically priced ever since they came out (at least on Monoprice, which is at least 1/2 of the price of any other place). I am guessing this is due to these kind of setups being primarily used in businesses (where budgets are in thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars), and on top of that these set ups being kind of niche, so the demand is not really there for mass production and price competitiveness.



It's still a low volume business for the semiconductor guys - and Valens makes the chip(s) - I don't know if there are other licensees making products yet (or if there will be). So they've got a lot of R&D to re-coup, but yeah, I'd like to see the capability show up everywhere, too.


Jeff


----------



## Chrushev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joe Fernand*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23585910
> 
> _‘Can anyone elaborate on why wall plate (non HDbaseT) extenders are not so good?’_ – because some of them are poorly designed and implemented, you cannot say they are all poor quality based on sampling just one brand!
> 
> 
> HDBaseT packetizes the HDMI signal to send it out over your CAT cable in manageable chunks – unlike HDMI which is non-Packetized, the down side being you produce a lot of heat with HDBaseT!
> 
> http://www.valens.com/products
> 
> 
> Joe



Hmm actually they specifically say they do NOT use packets or ethernet protocol --> http://www.hdbaset.org/technology


----------



## Chrushev

Reporting back:


Setup:

 


My first attempt was using 3 different wall plate NON HDbaseT devices (all from Monoprice), which worked pretty well; however flipping switches in the house would create interference that messed up the signal. Re-runs of cable did not help, and even simply putting the 50 feet of cable on the floor in the living room (walls and lots of distance from any other wiring had the same results). Short cables didnt have a problem (CAT5e or CAT6 less than 10 feet) were fine; but that was way too short, my shortest run was 30 feet. Power and unpowered wall plates made no difference. (You can see me describing my plight in the post here CLICKY 

*TIP#1* _If you have interference when A/C goes on or flipping light switches, instead of rewiring (which may be a waste of effort and time), take (make another one) cable of about the same length as the one that is having issues, and just run it through your house hallways/living room etc, wherever the other cable goes, see if it has same issues. If it does its a 99.9% chance that re-running wire in any other place in the house is not going to help, the interference is everywhere._


The above solution was about $250. After trying several different sets of wall plates (Monoprice ID 8008, 8009, 8200) all with same results (I later realized that they would not even push 1080p signal over 40 feet, my devices reverted to 720p, so when I thought I was testing with 1080p I was actually using 720p. Switchign to 1080p my Master Bedroom TV would not get signal).


So after not having any luck with the wall plates, and after reading this entire thread I decided to pony up some major cash and get HDbaseT extenders. It didnt seem like anyting other than HDbaseT would work. So my budget went from $250 to about $950. I got the cheapest HDbaseT extenders I could find (Monoprice ID 8122) at the time of this post $189 per pair (compared to $16 to $18 per pair for wall plate extenders).


I already had 2x CAT6 UTP (550Mhz) wires running to all of the locations, so I tucked the extra wire inside the wall (since HDbaseT uses 1x CAT5e or CAT6) and reterminated all of the ones I am going to use with 568B standard (since thats what it states to use in the manual). Plugged the devices in and they just worked. Fiancee and I went around flipping as many lights at the same time as fast as we could and the signal was solid. And it looked better too (since it was at 1080p 60Hz now instead of 720p). Ive spent this past weekend hooking rest of them up, and making the closet organized.


Everything works great!


At this point I feel like the extra expense was way worth it. The spotty performance of the wall plates was annoying, and who knows how it would change over time, but these HDbaseT extenders are solid, the build quality is very good. And performance is superb. And since I already have double CAT6 UTP running everywhere, if I ever need to upgrade to HDbaseT that uses 2 CAT6 cables (for 8k or whatnot) I should be ready to go.


So thats my experience.

*TIP#2:* _While CAT5e will work with HDbaseT, based on reviews and everything Ive read online CAT6 should be used if you are running a new run. Prices are almost the same. Some people reported in reviews spotty IR, but all of them had 5e instead of 6. May be related._

*TIP#3:* _UTP should be good enough for HDbaseT, shielded cable will provide little to no benefit in a household environment and actually may cause issues if not grounded properly. Just run the UTP at least a foot away from any kind of electrical wiring, when running down walls run it on the other side of a stud from electrical. My attic is a spiderweb of electrical, and some places on the 40 and 60 foot runs I have electrical come within 5 inches of the CAT6UTP, doesn't seem to create any issues at all._

*TIP#3:*_Terminate everything as 568/B not A, even though B is a legacy standard and A will work, who knows what is the reasoning behind it, but every single extender HDbaseT and non HDbaseT that Ive seen specifically call for 568B termination. WOr, Or, WGr, Bl, WhBl, Gr, WhBr, Br_

*What I learned*: Basically if you are going to run HDMI over CAT6 at this point in time go straight for HDbaseT solution, it is more pricey, but it is a much better technology. The amount of headache non HDbaseT solutions will give you is not worth the savings. I guess a good way to put it is, non HDbaseT extenders are legacy products, there is a much better solution available in this day and age. Think of it as a Quill Pen versus Ball point pen. Yes both will allow you to write a letter, but a Quill is a huge headache when compared to ball point pen. Quill pen is legacy, and eventually got replaced entirely by a ball point pen. I see 10 years from now HDbaseT being the standard for HDMI over CAT6 with new technologies available to cover the high end.


Hopefully my experience is helpful


----------



## Colm

Great post.


T568A or T568B makes no difference. I have this straight from an engineer at Valens.


Yes, Cat 6 instead of Cat 5e should be a no-brainer. Just be aware that some installations with long runs may need Cat 6a to be reliable. HDBaseT technology is very similar to 10GbaseT Ethernet.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Colm*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23598103
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> 
> T568A or T568B makes no difference. I have this straight from an engineer at Valens.
> 
> 
> Yes, Cat 6 instead of Cat 5e should be a no-brainer. Just be aware that some installations with long runs may need Cat 6a to be reliable. HDBaseT technology is very similar to 10GbaseT Ethernet.



Thanks for the info on the termination standards. I would add that now all cable is created equal, so Cat 6 or Cat 5e depends on the cable manufacturer. I only use Belden, and would put their Cat 5e variants up against most other Cat 6 cables, especially for longer runs. They publish test results for their cable, so you can see what each particular model was rated at. That is my $.02.


Mark


----------



## Chrushev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23598215
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info on the termination standards. I would add that now all cable is created equal, so Cat 6 or Cat 5e depends on the cable manufacturer. I only use Belden, and would put their Cat 5e variants up against most other Cat 6 cables, especially for longer runs. They publish test results for their cable, so you can see what each particular model was rated at. That is my $.02.
> 
> 
> Mark



I imagine 99% of people that would make their own runs will use Monoprice 1000ft bulk CAT6 500MHz UTP cable --> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10234&cs_id=1023401


----------



## Chrushev

Here is another HDbaseT question. It seems like the extenders still use enough power to stay warm when source and destination devices are off. AKA, when Sender/Reciever have a link over CAT6. I imagine this is so that IR can always be transmitted. Is this normal though?


I am getting a wattage measurer to compare Watt usage when on versus off, but the units are warm to the touch after source/destination are off for the entire night. Is this normal for HDbaseT devices?


My 2 concerns are:


1) I have 4 extenders, 2 of them will rarely be used, i dont want them to just burn power (considering either putting them on a switch or just pulling power when not used).

2) If the unit gets warm even when not being used this has to effect its lifespan expectancy.


Any thoughts?


PS - once I get the meter Ill post my findings.


----------



## Colm

Most HDMI extenders are always on. There are some that will power down and draw about half power when not in use. If you have some that are rarely used, the most cost effectively solution would be to put them on a switch.


----------



## Colm

Most HDMI extenders are always on. There are some that will power down and draw about half power when not in use. If you have some that are rarely used, the most cost effectively solution would be to put them on a switch, or just unplug them.


----------



## space2001

Just quick question, I was wondering for those using the Hdbaset Extenders from monoprice.


How are you mounting the extenders behind the flat panel tv's. I was going to get a recessed outlet but the plug for the monoprice unit wont allow it to be recessed.


Just trying to here some ideas.


Thanks.


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *space2001*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23599228
> 
> 
> Just quick question, I was wondering for those using the Hdbaset Extenders from monoprice.
> 
> 
> How are you mounting the extenders behind the flat panel tv's. I was going to get a recessed outlet but the plug for the monoprice unit wont allow it to be recessed.
> 
> 
> Just trying to here some ideas.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



I don't have the extenders, but I have a flat panel in the master bedroom mounted on the wall. Behind that wall is the closet, so I cut some access holes in the drywall on both sides and ran all the cabling into the closet. I installed my Moxi Mate (a whole-home DVR client) in the closet, along with the media receiver for the TV. The media receiver on the early Pioneer Elite plasma has come in handy for this setup.


Mark


----------



## dsumike

I picked up the a Portta PET30D 30m 98-Feet over dual Cat5E/6.


The unit provides video and audio at 480p/720p/1080i/[email protected] and @24. However, regardless of the resolution the colors appear to be incorrect (red is green and green is red, however blue, black and white appear correct) and the audio crackles during play back.


I am using my dual in-wall Cat5E, estimated 50 ft, terminated at wall plates. I've tried multiple cables connecting on the source and destination ends. I either get nothing (no source) or these odd color/source problems depending on the cables I've used (It looks like I'll need to pick up a cable tester).


I'm in the early stages of debugging, as I don't have a lot of spare equipment without completely taking apart my current home setup. I saw some comments about adding one of the Cable 2 Go Voltage Inserters solving a couple of users problems. Does this issue sound like something that could be fixed by this? Or does anyone else have any suggestions of what to fix?


----------



## JonW747




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Roberyu*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/330#post_23490788
> 
> 
> Also, it is important to note the pains I took to enhance my chances of success when trying to share HDMI sources to several destinations. There are no displays connected directly, and all destinations are late model Denon lossless-capable receivers with 1080p/24/30/60 displays connected. On the EDID lowest-common denominator playing field, I should be all good, and besides, it all sync'd up eventually with much fiddly work with power-cycling matrix components.



This is so key.


I bought the same model HD44 from HdtvSupply not long before you did, and it was after discussing my system with Jim and getting his recommendation. I haven't actually tried to extend my HDMI to my other TVs around the house yet because they don't support the same resolution. I played with one of my other TVs hooked up directly to the matrix, and it simply confused things. So for now, I just have a 1080p60 TV hooked up through my AVR, and another 1080p60 TV with built-in decoding hooked up directly and this is working well so far, albeit I haven't tried anything too difficult such as trying to play back Dolby TrueHD through both at the same time. I suspect my TV connected directly won't be able to decode that.


But the EDID settings let me choose what I want the "lowest common denominator" to be, and that's why switching is so much faster and smoother than than switches which detect on the fly.


I'm also not surprised the HDMI extender worked for you, given they actually test and pair the extenders with the switch. You fully expect a company rep to poo-poo going with a product purchased elsewhere, but this thread is evidence that not everything plays well together. He has no issues with HDBaseT extenders - but pretty much everything else. I imagine the way the HD44 handles the EDID codes also helps with the extender as well, because the EDID from the displays never gets back to the sources.


The HD44 claims to support 3D, and it sort of does. One of my TVs supports 3D and the other doesn't. The HD44 (unlike some switches) doesn't have 3D EDID selections. My PS3, though, is the only thing that gave me trouble because it needs to detect 3D before it will support 3D, and it wouldn't detect it as long as the HD44 was inline. But after I connected the PS3 directly to the 3D TV and re-setup my display settings, it detected and configured for 3D and it worked fine once I hooked the switch back up.


The HD44 does appear to be made by Shinybow, but it's a custom model that combines features from different products to supply EDID capabilities at a lower price point than their $600 4x4. You won't find the HD44 on the Shinybow web site, but there is at least one other company that was selling it at the time I bought mine. The documentation is a bit muddled when it comes to IR HEX codes, but the HD44 supports the ability to send a single code that selects both a source and a destination.There's a Yamaha NEC to Pronto HEX converter that came in handy for me.


btw, the first HD44 I received couldn't output video, and I was afraid given all the warnings about powering off before connecting anything that the switch was too easy to fry, but the replacement has been fine.

Code:


Code:


[CODE]NEC CODE (32-BIT)       PRONTO/URC HEX CODE
            -----------------       -------------------
POWER ON  : 1CE3 A15E               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
POWER OFF : 1CE3 A25D               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

ALL       : 1CE3 B04F               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
OFF       : 1CE3 B14E               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
EDID      : 1CE3 B748               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
LOCK      : 1CE3 B54A               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
RECALL    : 1CE3 B24D               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
MEMORY    : 1CE3 B44B               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
ENTER     : 1CE3 B34C               0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

DESTINATION #1 : 1CE3 10EF          0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
DESTINATION #2 : 1CE3 20DF          0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
DESTINATION #3 : 1CE3 30CF          0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
DESTINATION #4 : 1CE3 40BF          0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

SOURCE #1 :  1CE3 01FE              0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #2 :  1CE3 02FD              0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #3 :  1CE3 03FC              0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #4 :  1CE3 04FB              0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

EDID BUTTON           : 1CE3 B748   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 1 : Auto         : 1CE3 E01F   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 2 : 1080p-2ch    : 1CE3 E11E   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 3 : 1080p-5.1    : 1CE3 E21D   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 4 : 1080p-7.1    : 1CE3 E31C   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 5 : 1080i-2ch    : 1CE3 E41B   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 6 : 720p-2ch     : 1CE3 E51A   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 7 : Learn        : 1CE3 E619   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
Mode 8 : Reserve      : 1CE3 E718   0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

THESE BUTTONS WORK ON HD44
AND PERMIT DIRECT ACCESS
---------------------------------

DESTINATION #1
SOURCE #1: 1CE3 11EE                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #2: 1CE3 12ED                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #3: 1CE3 13EC                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #4: 1CE3 14EB                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

DESTINATION #2
SOURCE #1: 1CE3 21DE                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #2: 1CE3 22DD                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #3: 1CE3 23DC                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #4: 1CE3 24DB                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

DESTINATION #3
SOURCE #1: 1CE3 31CE                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #2: 1CE3 32CD                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #3: 1CE3 33CC                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #4: 1CE3 34CB                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

DESTINATION #4
SOURCE #1: 1CE3 41BE                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #2: 1CE3 42BD                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #3: 1CE3 43BC                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47
SOURCE #4: 1CE3 44BB                0000 006D 0022 0002 0155 00AA 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0040 0015 0015 0015 0040 0015 05ED 0155 0055 0015 0E47

[/CODE]


----------



## killswitch1968

I have Playstation 3 outputting to a Panasonic 50" plasma TC-P50S2. They're worked fine for years at 1080p over a single HDMI cable.

I've acquired a KeyDigital Cat6 balun KD-CATHD100 ( http://www.keydigital.com/Downloads/KD-CATHD100/KD-CATHD100_Manual.pdf ) so I can put the PS3 in the media closet.


The issue is with the balun, it seems to reject the PS3 input signal. It has a 'link' light that turns on when it is receiving an input, but this light is dark when connected to the PS3 and it does not output to the TV naturally.


I've fiddled with all the PS3 settings, specifically Deep color, resolution, but I cannot get any picture or have the balun receive the signal. What am I missing?


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *killswitch1968*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23639539
> 
> 
> I have Playstation 3 outputting to a Panasonic 50" plasma TC-P50S2. They're worked fine for years at 1080p over a single HDMI cable.
> 
> I've acquired a KeyDigital Cat6 balun KD-CATHD100 ( http://www.keydigital.com/Downloads/KD-CATHD100/KD-CATHD100_Manual.pdf ) so I can put the PS3 in the media closet.
> 
> 
> The issue is with the balun, it seems to reject the PS3 input signal. It has a 'link' light that turns on when it is receiving an input, but this light is dark when connected to the PS3 and it does not output to the TV naturally.
> 
> 
> I've fiddled with all the PS3 settings, specifically Deep color, resolution, but I cannot get any picture or have the balun receive the signal. What am I missing?


 

A few thoughts..

 

Try to go down a resolution notch or two..  try 1080i, try 720p, heck even try 480p.  The first thing you need to do is to ensure that the box even works..  If no link light is on, no matter what, you may have a dud. (Probably not common, but certainly not unheard of in today's mass market industry.)

 

Try a short pre-made patch cable.  DIY terminations can and have been causes of some people's problems in the past.  If you have a 6' premade Cat5e or Cat6 patch cable, try it first.  Caveat to that statement is that some extenders are expecting to run over a longer distance and sometimes "overdrive" the cable on the signal, meaning that if you use a short patch cable, it may overdrive the receiver and not work, where a longer cable would.  After all, if you have a short run between adapters, why use the adapters in the first place?   Along those lines, if you have access to multiple pre-made patch cables, and you have a really long one (50' or more), try it too.  Even if you only need 15', if a 50' cable works, find a place to coil up the remaining 35' and just leave it.  

 

Do also try turning off your "bandwidth increasers--" deep color, 3D, etc.  If the link is unstable because you're pushing too much water through the proverbial pipe, then reducing the flow can help.

 

Also, try other sources. You're indicating your PS3 is having problems.  What about a bluray player? DVR? DVD player with HDMI out? What about an AVR, if you have one?  Some devices like DVR's are known to have problems with baluns (rather than true extenders).

 

I hope that you're able to get it resolved.  Among all the HDMI extension solutions, the two-wires "baluns" are probably the most unpredictable. Work perfectly for some, not at all for others, and sometimes-glitchy for still others.  Single-CatX adapters work better, and HDbaseT adapters work better still.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted.

..dane


----------



## killswitch1968




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23641482
> 
> 
> A few thoughts..
> 
> 
> Try to go down a resolution notch or two..  try 1080i, try 720p, heck even try 480p.  The first thing you need to do is to ensure that the box even works..  If no link light is on, no matter what, you may have a dud. (Probably not common, but certainly not unheard of in today's mass market industry.)
> 
> 
> Try a short pre-made patch cable.  DIY terminations can and have been causes of some people's problems in the past.  If you have a 6' premade Cat5e or Cat6 patch cable, try it first.  Caveat to that statement is that some extenders are expecting to run over a longer distance and sometimes "overdrive" the cable on the signal, meaning that if you use a short patch cable, it may overdrive the receiver and not work, where a longer cable would.  After all, if you have a short run between adapters, why use the adapters in the first place?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Along those lines, if you have access to multiple pre-made patch cables, and you have a really long one (50' or more), try it too.  Even if you only need 15', if a 50' cable works, find a place to coil up the remaining 35' and just leave it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do also try turning off your "bandwidth increasers--" deep color, 3D, etc.  If the link is unstable because you're pushing too much water through the proverbial pipe, then reducing the flow can help.
> 
> 
> Also, try other sources. You're indicating your PS3 is having problems.  What about a bluray player? DVR? DVD player with HDMI out? What about an AVR, if you have one?  Some devices like DVR's are known to have problems with baluns (rather than true extenders).
> 
> 
> I hope that you're able to get it resolved.  Among all the HDMI extension solutions, the two-wires "baluns" are probably the most unpredictable. Work perfectly for some, not at all for others, and sometimes-glitchy for still others.  Single-CatX adapters work better, and HDbaseT adapters work better still.
> 
> 
> Good luck, and keep us posted.
> 
> ..dane



Dane thanks for your helped, I managed to get it working. The problem was indeed the Deep Color. I had this disabled originally but then didn't hook up TWO Cat6 cables between the baluns. The video had some speckling artifact at 1080p but 1080i is working well.

However I'm not getting any sound through the HDMI cable. The PS3 simply says the HDMI cable cannot carry sound. Any work arounds for this?


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23641482
> 
> 
> Among all the HDMI extension solutions, the two-wires "baluns" are probably the most unpredictable. Work perfectly for some, not at all for others, and sometimes-glitchy for still others.  Single-CatX adapters work better, and HDbaseT adapters work better still.
> 
> ..dane



Hmmm...I wonder if there is a direct relationship to the amount of engineering required to the sucess rate. In other words, more engineering required (HDBaseT) = a higher sucess rate.


Mark


----------



## audiodane




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *killswitch1968*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23645032
> 
> 
> 
> Dane thanks for your helped, I managed to get it working. The problem was indeed the Deep Color. I had this disabled originally but then didn't hook up TWO Cat6 cables between the baluns. The video had some speckling artifact at 1080p but 1080i is working well.
> 
> However I'm not getting any sound through the HDMI cable. The PS3 simply says the HDMI cable cannot carry sound. Any work arounds for this?


 

Glad you got it working-- great job!  1080p sparkles are common; it means you're close to the edge of the digital cliff.  Going 1080i backs off the bandwidth by half, so that's why it makes such a dramatic difference.  I'm not sure about your sound problem.  You can try to keep going down the list of tips and tricks and see if the sound ever comes back (does sound work at 480p, for instance) ..  Ironically, I am so far from a professional in this area..  I just felt it was time a dedicated thread was created to start capturing people's experience and draw others' wisdom (and it has!).. I've learned tons!  

 

Have you tried forcing the PS3 to 2-channel stereo PCM?

 

Hopefully some others will chime in here about your sound situation..

 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23645351
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm...I wonder if there is a direct relationship to the amount of engineering required to the sucess rate. In other words, more engineering required (HDBaseT) = a higher sucess rate.
> 
> 
> Mark


 

   I think you're on to something there, Mark.    Typically the more care that goes in equates with a better result..  There are plenty of caveat's to that rule in life, I'm sure.  But it's a good generalization..  That said---- some folks here have clearly had stellar results with dual-CatX cable adapters.  In their situation, it helped them save TONS of money!  Others haven't had such good luck and become jaded in the process.  That's the risk you run though, I guess.. ?

 

cheers,

..dane


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *audiodane*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23647004
> 
> 
> I think you're on to something there, Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Typically the more care that goes in equates with a better result..  There are plenty of caveat's to that rule in life, I'm sure.  But it's a good generalization..  That said---- some folks here have clearly had stellar results with dual-CatX cable adapters.  In their situation, it helped them save TONS of money!  Others haven't had such good luck and become jaded in the process.  That's the risk you run though, I guess.. ?
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ..dane



It is a risk, but as you pointed out, this thread is very useful, and can help to minimize the risk. By the way, thanks for the great job keeping up the first post. Maybe you should modify the title to say "...read 1st post before posting".


Mark


----------



## JonW747




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *giomania*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23645351
> 
> 
> Hmmm...I wonder if there is a direct relationship to the amount of engineering required to the sucess rate. In other words, more engineering required (HDBaseT) = a higher sucess rate.
> 
> 
> Mark



Engineering means meeting the specifications of equipment that doesn't meet specifications.










Technically, the low-tech approach is often a great solution. For instance, Component Video is far easier to distribute than HDMI. There's no HDCP and there's no EDID, so the only challenge is to get a video signal from here to there; but throwing a low-tech solution at a high-tech problem is just asking for trouble.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JonW747*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23662928
> 
> 
> Engineering means meeting the specifications of equipment that doesn't meet specifications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Technically, the low-tech approach is often a great solution. For instance, Component Video is far easier to distribute than HDMI. There's no HDCP and there's no EDID, so the only challenge is to get a video signal from here to there; but throwing a low-tech solution at a high-tech problem is just asking for trouble.



+1 and engineering also involves finding the best solution to a problem and that is not always the most high tech or expensive solution.


For example distributing satellite or CATV in a sports bar is best done by component video IMO. Here the slight image quality difference is not relevant but reliability and cost are. Now in an AV showroom,we have the opposite.


----------



## AV_Integrated

There's also the fact that component video is not worse looking than HDMI and depending on the DACs in use, can actually look better. In my experience, about 90% of the time, component and HDMI look identical for HD delivery. The exception is 1080p content which generally isn't available across component video.


There are also modulated solutions which can be done for dozens of displays with multiple sources that can hit a solid price point while using legacy wiring and deliver top notch HDTV.


I'm personally a fan of component video as it is inexpensive and component video matrix switchers are readily available on the eBay for under $100. Add a few hundred feet of cabling for a couple hundred bucks and call it a system. The real headaches are Blu-ray which has gone almost entirely HDMI, but otherwise, you can get away with component video across cable TV, DVD, and a solid list of media players which can often handle Blu-ray ripped content.


Certainly HDMI is excellent, but the price point for the type of reliability which is already in place with component video is still sitting well beyond a ten fold cost increase for a 8x8 matrixed system.


----------



## malakudi

Hello from sunny Greece.


I want to walk the HDBaseT path, but we don't have much products here in Greece. I have found in ebay the Belkin HDBaseT extenders with a fair price (300 USD) and I would like to ask if anyone has experience with these and if their power supplies are compatible with 220V/50Hz euro plugs we have here.


Thank you all for this great thread.


----------



## Skytrooper

Just a couple of comments. Used Component Video Extenders to my Dish Hopper DVR for my TV on the patio and they work like a champ.


Sparkles on a PS3. No matter how many HDMI Cables I used for my PS3, I found only 1 that will work . ( No Sparkles) I know there is supposed to be no difference in HDMI cables, but I never got an answer from any one why only this 1 cable works.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skytrooper*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23669105
> 
> 
> Just a couple of comments. Used Component Video Extenders to my Dish Hopper DVR for my TV on the patio and they work like a champ.
> 
> 
> Sparkles on a PS3. No matter how many HDMI Cables I used for my PS3, I found only 1 that will work . ( No Sparkles) I know there is supposed to be no difference in HDMI cables, but I never got an answer from any one why only this 1 cable works.



There are differences when you get over 10 feet. But a good 50 foot HDMI cable still costs no more than $100. Over 50 feet is a gray area. 100 feet is likely to be very picky when it comes to cables.


It's also quite possible some cheap 75 foot HDMI cable works while an expensive name brand 75 foot cable doesn't. It depends on the the HDMI receiver reacts with the distortions in the data stream. At 75 feet, you are over the spec and all bets are off.


The stuff you see from Monster and Audioquest promising improved audio and video quality is simply consumer fraud. Yes cables do make a difference on long HDMI runs but the failure mode is sparkles and dropouts like you experienced. No HDMI cable can make brighter colors or deeper blacks over another and that's where the "all HDMI cables are the same" comes from. And it's largely true under 10 feet in length.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *malakudi*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23668696
> 
> 
> Hello from sunny Greece.
> 
> 
> I want to walk the HDBaseT path, but we don't have much products here in Greece. I have found in ebay the Belkin HDBaseT extenders with a fair price (300 USD) and I would like to ask if anyone has experience with these and if their power supplies are compatible with 220V/50Hz euro plugs we have here.
> 
> 
> Thank you all for this great thread.



Most plug-in power supplies these days are switch mode type and will work anywhere in the world. But there are still some 60hz transfomer based units around that won't. Call or EMAIL Belkin to be sure. If they are strictly 120v you can use a small travel transformer as these extenders don't take much power at all. A 20va unit should be more than enough capacity. If you do need to use an adapter because the power supply is 120v only, be sure the adapter is a true transformer. Some are just a diode that clips half the waveform and approximates 120v. These are for heating devices and no good for electronics. The 50/60hz power difference won't matter for HDBaseT or any modern electronic devices.


----------



## Skytrooper

Glimmie, the cable that works is 6'. I have to stretch it because of the length. All others were 10'. The only difference may be is the 6' cable is shielded. The 6' cable has a clear jacket on it is how I know it's shielded. No name brand. I even tried other 6 footers to no avail. Why only this 1 works is blowing my mind.


----------



## Glimmie




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Skytrooper*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_23670313
> 
> 
> Glimmie, the cable that works is 6'. I have to stretch it because of the length. All others were 10'. The only difference may be is the 6' cable is shielded. The 6' cable has a clear jacket on it is how I know it's shielded. No name brand. I even tried other 6 footers to no avail. Why only this 1 works is blowing my mind.



Well unfortunately these types of problems are all too common with HDMI, especially the early stuff. All HDMI cables are supposed to be shielded not only by HDMI specifications but also FCC and European CE RFI standards. That said there are countless cables from China that do not meet either specification.


Yes HDMI cables can make a difference. But don't get caught up in the Audioquest and Monster hype. Good HDMI cables can be found at fair and reasonable prices.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Hello Chrushev


Lost track of this Thread.


Packetize – my bad will ensure I go with ‘modulate’ in future and def. not IP compatible.


Power consumption/Heat dissipation – funnily enough I’ve just been updating some of our HD4xSTP Chassis and HD70STP Extender kits along with our HDBaseT-lite Tx and Rx cards with a New auto standby firmware – the Rx now recognise when the attached Display goes into Standby and puts the Rx and Tx for that Zone into Standby.


Joe


----------



## khiem27

I'm currently using the monoprice extender 8122. Everything works perfectly except when I adjust a ceiling fan speed, the plasma tv will experience a brief dropout. I'm ok with this since it only happens briefly. My question is will the dropouts have a negative impact on my tv?


----------



## Skytrooper

I doubt that will do any harm to your TV. When you are changing the speed of your fan, it's putting a glitch on your AC Power Line that your Extender doesn't like. Just deal with it.


----------



## jebeltra

My experience:

I have been using extender over CAT5 for several years with mix to great results. My take is there is a lot of variability with the quality of this things. And rightly so, some sending/receiving equipment combos may change the result.


Did work:

Very cheap, ebay extender from China for $15 connected to output of]MonoPrice 4x2 matrix switch running about 30-40 ft from basement to second room to a G10 Panasonic Plasma. The extender is self powered. 1080i or 1080p same problem. Cat 6 self terminated. I had a lot sync problems at the beginning where a power cycle had to be done in an specific sequence. But this problem happened very little.


Did not work:

Changed the 4x2 Monoprice matrix to the 4x4 Monoprice. I tried 3 of this 4x4 switches blaming them for the problem. The TV would loose signal every time a power/light switch would come on, not off. Drove me crazy. Tried with several circuits in the 2nd floor using extensions to try to isolate problem but it always happened.

How I fixed it: Upgraded the extender from the $15 no brand, no power, to Monoprice's ~$40 powered extender, also using 2 cat6. No more problems. Had the same problem when sending signal to an older 720p Pany Plasma and shorter cat6 run.


The equipment:

All centralized in the basement of a 2 story colonial.

PS3

Oppo

Motorola STB

Monoprice 5x1 switch

All the above connected as sources to a Monoprice 4x4 using short HDMI cables


Apple TV

Wii (using component to HDMI converter from Monoprice)

Yamaha Receiver Video output (also using component to HDMI)

ChromeCast (waiting)

The above connected as sources to the Monoprice 5x1 (ran our of ports into the monoprice 4x4).


Monoprice 4x4 Outputs:

25 ft Monoprice HDMI cable to Epson projector for 92"

20 - 30 ft Monoprice 2-cat extender using cat6 self terminated to 50" 720p 2003 Pany Plasma

30 - 40 ft Monoprice 2-cat extender using cat6 self terminated to 1080i Pany G10 Plasma


Everything works great if only for delays switching sources but tolerable. I do not switch sources too often once I sit down. Only PITA is when STB from Motorola switches from HD to SD and also looses sync and takes 2-3 seconds to resync. But i believe this to be a STB issue, not anything in between.


I have not found noticeable degradation in picture quality using the baluns, specially on a 42 or 50" Plasma. I have not experienced signal degradation using the Monoprice HDMI 4x4 matrix and my 92" screen.


I love these things when you get the right product. And they are dirt cheap from Mono. Single Cat solutions will probably work better but still cost double. Prices coming down quickly and I am waiting for a Monoprice solution in ~40 range to upgrade and free one cat6 though I have many. Can't beat Monoprice quality/price value, service and return policy.


Jorge


----------



## giomania




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jebeltra*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/300_100#post_23744062
> 
> 
> My experience:
> 
> I have been using extender over CAT5 for several years with mix to great results. My take is there is a lot of variability with the quality of this things. And rightly so, some sending/receiving equipment combos may change the result.
> 
> 
> Did work:
> 
> Very cheap, ebay extender from China for $15 connected to output of]MonoPrice 4x2 matrix switch running about 30-40 ft from basement to second room to a G10 Panasonic Plasma. The extender is self powered. 1080i or 1080p same problem. Cat 6 self terminated. I had a lot sync problems at the beginning where a power cycle had to be done in an specific sequence. But this problem happened very little.
> 
> 
> Did not work:
> 
> Changed the 4x2 Monoprice matrix to the 4x4 Monoprice. I tried 3 of this 4x4 switches blaming them for the problem. The TV would loose signal every time a power/light switch would come on, not off. Drove me crazy. Tried with several circuits in the 2nd floor using extensions to try to isolate problem but it always happened.
> 
> How I fixed it: Upgraded the extender from the $15 no brand, no power, to Monoprice's ~$40 powered extender, also using 2 cat6. No more problems. Had the same problem when sending signal to an older 720p Pany Plasma and shorter cat6 run.
> 
> 
> The equipment:
> 
> All centralized in the basement of a 2 story colonial.
> 
> PS3
> 
> Oppo
> 
> Motorola STB
> 
> Monoprice 5x1 switch
> 
> All the above connected as sources to a Monoprice 4x4 using short HDMI cables
> 
> 
> Apple TV
> 
> Wii (using component to HDMI converter from Monoprice)
> 
> Yamaha Receiver Video output (also using component to HDMI)
> 
> ChromeCast (waiting)
> 
> The above connected as sources to the Monoprice 5x1 (ran our of ports into the monoprice 4x4).
> 
> 
> Monoprice 4x4 Outputs:
> 
> 25 ft Monoprice HDMI cable to Epson projector for 92"
> 
> 20 - 30 ft Monoprice 2-cat extender using cat6 self terminated to 50" 720p 2003 Pany Plasma
> 
> 30 - 40 ft Monoprice 2-cat extender using cat6 self terminated to 1080i Pany G10 Plasma
> 
> 
> Everything works great if only for delays switching sources but tolerable. I do not switch sources too often once I sit down. Only PITA is when STB from Motorola switches from HD to SD and also looses sync and takes 2-3 seconds to resync. But i believe this to be a STB issue, not anything in between.
> 
> 
> I have not found noticeable degradation in picture quality using the baluns, specially on a 42 or 50" Plasma. I have not experienced signal degradation using the Monoprice HDMI 4x4 matrix and my 92" screen.
> 
> 
> I love these things when you get the right product. And they are dirt cheap from Mono. Single Cat solutions will probably work better but still cost double. Prices coming down quickly and I am waiting for a Monoprice solution in ~40 range to upgrade and free one cat6 though I have many. Can't beat Monoprice quality/price value, service and return policy.
> 
> 
> Jorge



Would you mind providing the PID numbers of the devices you purchased from Monoprice?


Thanks.


Mark


----------



## hutlet10

Hi just wondering if anyone can help hdmi over cat5 have picture no audio. Then got audio for a brief period turned of Xbox now nothing again. Tried few different sources. Monoprice mkw0004 is the extender 2 runs of car5


----------



## legend3012


Hi guys, I have a HDMI extender device using Cat5/6 to extend the HDMI singal, contains a Transmitter with HDMI input and RJ45 output, and vice-versa in Receiver (detail in this link  http://pcmax.vn/bo-chia-cong-hdmi/bo-keo-dai-tin-hieu-hdmi-dai-60m-chinh-hang-mt-viki.html ) So I wonder that what is the mechanism of convert the audio signal to transform the signal in the CAT cable? how dose HDMI extender work? Tks everybody.


----------



## AV_Integrated




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *legend3012*  /t/1272288/hdmi-over-cat5e-problems-and-solutions-read-before-posting/360#post_24783445
> 
> 
> So I wonder that what is the mechanism of convert the audio signal to transform the signal in the CAT cable? how dose HDMI extender work? Tks everybody.


It's electronics based. It's not as simple as a diode or resistor in place, but a microchip which has been designed performs the conversion of the 19-pin HDMI connection for the extender you are using. Different chips from different companies perform differently, and to this point, there is not one chip manufacturer which stands out as much as Valens does with their HDBT chips. To the point that all major manufacturers with the highest level of respect in the industry have standardized on HDBT as their cat-x extender solution of choice.


So, you aren't going to just 'recreate' these extenders by soldering a few locally available electronics pieces together.


----------



## Shaneisaac

*Problem w/ HDMI over Cat5. Used to work fine. now no.*

I was using Niles C5HDMI baluns and a Samsung UN46C6300SFXZA with cable box, apple tv, roku, worked fine for a few years. the cat5 run is about 30ft. Now it does not work at all. i just tried it with two new TVs and they did not work. I tried it with different cat5 cables. I tried it with different HDMI cables.
I tried it with different baluns, kanex HDEXT50M, it didn't work.

Please help


----------



## Garet Jax

Chrushev said:


> Quote:Originally Posted by *giomania*
> 
> Thanks for the info on the termination standards. I would add that now all cable is created equal, so Cat 6 or Cat 5e depends on the cable manufacturer. I only use Belden, and would put their Cat 5e variants up against most other Cat 6 cables, especially for longer runs. They publish test results for their cable, so you can see what each particular model was rated at. That is my $.02.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> I imagine 99% of people that would make their own runs will use Monoprice 1000ft bulk CAT6 500MHz UTP cable --> http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10234&cs_id=1023401


Monoprice cat 6 bulk cabling happens to be what I used - is there a problem with it?


----------



## Chrushev

Garet Jax said:


> Monoprice cat 6 bulk cabling happens to be what I used - is there a problem with it?


Nope, Ive always had superb experience with Monoprice cables, and products in general.


----------



## giomania

Garet Jax said:


> Monoprice cat 6 bulk cabling happens to be what I used - is there a problem with it?


I am just a bit of a bulk category cable snob, and I only use Belden.  Since I don't run category cable too often, and it is in the walls, I figure it is worth the extra expense. 

For Cat 6 patch cords, I use the Monoprice variants. 

For HDMI, I use the Belden Series of Blue Jeans Cables. 

Mark


----------



## bambibaba

*4x4 and cat5e extender*

Hi I am new here and start switch my home to HDMI . I have 4 tv in different location and over 40 feet from the media center , I bought a 4x4 matrix HDMI switch from Monoprice ,4HDMI in and 4 HDMI out , then I bought a Sabrent HDMI extender over cat5e after hook them up I receiver signal ok but the video black out for 2 seconds then come back and keep doing that 
If I take the output from the Switch and connect direct to the tv then it is ok , only when I use the extender then the video is black out every 2 or 3 seconds and come back and keep doing like that .
Cat5e is 50' in length .
Any suggestion will be appreciate .


----------



## Garet Jax

giomania said:


> I am just a bit of a bulk category cable snob, and I only use Belden.  Since I don't run category cable too often, and it is in the walls, I figure it is worth the extra expense.
> 
> For Cat 6 patch cords, I use the Monoprice variants.
> 
> For HDMI, I use the Belden Series of Blue Jeans Cables.
> 
> Mark


Mark - snob away 

Where do you get the Belden bulk cat 6 cable and what connectors do you use for your cable? Thanks.


----------



## giomania

When I cabled my house in 2007, I bought a 500' spool of Belden Cat 5e, but for the smaller projects since then, I have been buying remnants of Belden Cat 5e from Markertek.com; I have not used Cat 6 except for pre-made patch cords from Monoprice. For the female wall plate (key-stone) terminations, I used Leviton purchased from Home Depot. I did try some Monoprice ones, but did not like them at all. When I make a male RJ-45 termination, I have a bag of clear plastic connectors (don't know the name), and use a standard RJ-45 crimp tool.

A lot of the Belden Cat 5e is usually good for up to 350 MHz bandwidth, and they publish their test results. I figure for my gigabit network with alot of existing Cat 5e, that would be fine. If I was wiring my house today, I would be using Cat 6 or 7, and just bite the bullet for the extra cost.

Mark

Here is my HDMI Distribution Diagram, if anyone is interested:


----------



## CinemaAndy

Has anyone tried HDMI over CAT7? I was going over the specs, same old RJ-45 Connector, RoHS Compliant, 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX/1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX/9GBASE-T, Transfer Speed 10 Gbps, Bandwidth 600Mhz, 8 wires, cable size 5.7mm.

Those transfer rates and bandwidth are enough to handle 1080P and 3D with no problems up to 100 feet i'm guessing.


----------



## FlyingDiver

CinemaAndy said:


> Has anyone tried HDMI over CAT7? I was going over the specs, same old RJ-45 Connector, RoHS Compliant, 10BASE-T/100BASE-TX/1000BASE-T/1000BASE-TX/9GBASE-T, Transfer Speed 10 Gbps, Bandwidth 600Mhz, 8 wires, cable size 5.7mm.
> 
> Those transfer rates and bandwidth are enough to handle 1080P and 3D with no problems up to 100 feet i'm guessing.


Unless the transceivers you're using are designed to use the extra bandwidth, it's a waste. I don't believe HDBaseT compliant equipment will do so. Maybe there's something newer/better out there that will.


----------



## McGuireV10

I was a die-hard component video guy, but HDMI is rapidly becoming unavoidable thanks to the content-producer fetish for copy protection (despite the fact that it has never prevented copying, but I digress). I recently started the painful switch to HDMI over CATx cable and the results have been fairly miserable so far. I run a single source from an AV closet distributed to 8 locations. The _shortest_ run is about 30 feet, so right off the bat you know we're in for a good time. I have a couple audio-only runs but the longest video run is somewhere in the vicinity of 140 feet.

I'm switching my office and parking lot to a bunch of high-def IP cameras, and the guy I hired to pull wire suggested this bulk CAT 6E STP wire from eBay. I was skeptical but now that I have a couple spools in-hand, the quality seems good, the jacket is very pliable and it seems like good-quality wiring at a decent price. I am also using these pass-through connectors which are fairly high-quality.

We needed about 1600 ft of cable for the office cameras, so I plan to use the remaining cable at home to start replacing the cheap, stiff, thin-jacketed CAT5 junk my low-volt guys put in the walls when the house was built almost 10 years ago, and if those replacements work, I'll be picking up a few more spools for quality-time in the attics come this winter.

In terms of equipment, I am starting with the Monoprice 8x1 HDMI switch pushing thru a 1x8 Monoprice splitter/balun setup to the included output baluns. Results have been usable but mediocre so far, but as I noted, my in-wall wiring is junk. I am using pre-made Monoprice CAT6 UTP for the final wall-to-balun connections and surprisingly that is often enough to overcome signal problems up to 720p (when I experiment with CAT5 wall-to-balun), though 1080i at any speed stumbles often, and 1080p is nearly non-functional.

My pool area and garage have stereo audio only (for now, the garage is an even longer run!), so I'm using this HDMI audio splitter to run stereo audio over a separate distribution amp and some old ETS-LAN CAT5 composite/stereo baluns I've had forever. The splitter is pass-through and surprisingly, HDMI output quality and reliability seems to _*noticeably improve*_ when the switch feeds through this device to the splitter/balun.

At night, I fantasize about reliable, affordable, high-speed one-to-many wireless HDMI transmitters...


----------



## Temur Mikhanashvili

hello,
i have tripp Lite 126-1P0 connected over hdmi to PC (win7) then 20 meters cat6 cable then tripp Lite B126-004 + 15meters cat6+126-1P0+hdmi samsung TV's 

so i have no signal when connecting my pc (pc just don't identify that something hooked in hdmi port) , but when i connect my blue ray player or android box with hdmi instead of PC, all works perfectly and i have excellent picture on all tv's

how i can get work this system with pc?

P.S. when i connect my pc directly to lcd monitor by hdmi it works.


----------



## McGuireV10

Temur Mikhanashvili said:


> hello,
> i have tripp Lite 126-1P0 connected over hdmi to PC (win7) then 20 meters cat6 cable then tripp Lite B126-004 + 15meters cat6+126-1P0+hdmi samsung TV's
> 
> so i have no signal when connecting my pc (pc just don't identify that something hooked in hdmi port) , but when i connect my blue ray player or android box with hdmi instead of PC, all works perfectly and i have excellent picture on all tv's
> 
> how i can get work this system with pc?
> 
> P.S. when i connect my pc directly to lcd monitor by hdmi it works.


What brand/model is the PC (particularly if it's a laptop) and/or the graphics card? 

PCs and laptops seem to be the most picky about all the handshaking needed to establish a connection. I have one laptop that just won't connect over HDMI, I have another one that will connect (directly) to some of my TVs but not others, and I have a third that connects to anything through a complicated series of switches and amplifiers. And two of those three laptops are identical models. HDMI is a train-wreck.


----------



## Temur Mikhanashvili

pc with asus H61M-K mb with Intel HD gr. onboard video with dvi (I'm using dvi-hdmi adapter)

an i also test it with asus i5 ultrabook with the same unsuccessful result

you think if i change MB or add video adapter it will work?

maybe its hdcp handshake problem?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Extending the Output of a PC can be tricky if the Extender is not passing on the relevant EDID from the connected Sink (Display).


Are you ensuring the PC is Outputting a signal the Display supports via its HDMI/DVI Input - many HDMI sockets are 'limited' to supporting HDTV signals not 'PC' format signals.


Joe


----------



## politby

Hello,

my current cheap HDMI extender has gone inop and I want to replace it with something more reliable that powers the receiver through the Cat6 cable.

What is currently the lowest cost reliable single cable alternative with PoE?

The distance is short, only about 30 feet, and I have no need for IR, serial or any other features, just HDMI.

Thanks


----------



## HDgaming42

politby said:


> Hello,
> 
> my current cheap HDMI extender has gone inop and I want to replace it with something more reliable that powers the receiver through the Cat6 cable.
> 
> What is currently the lowest cost reliable single cable alternative with PoE?
> 
> The distance is short, only about 30 feet, and I have no need for IR, serial or any other features, just HDMI.
> 
> Thanks


I'm in the same boat. I had one of these Monoprice PID8121 pieces of garbage that just up and quit on me after 15 months of very light usage. Ugh.

My run is about the same--30ft or so. I use a DVDO Edge and have found it to be every bit as finicky as the OP.

Could any users subscribed to this thread drop back in and give us an update as to what they're using that works, and for how long they've been using it?

Reading that it works great is one thing. Reading that it's still going after a year or two is what seems essential here. The last page of reviews for that Monoprice Balun is filled with people who've had them die just outside of warranty.


----------



## audiodane

I am still running the HDMI XTENDEX from NTI. It is extremely expensive, but it hasn't failed me yet. I know this option will be out of most people's price points however. 

I probably see no more than about five dropouts per year (yes you read that right).. However, I am only running cat5e and therefore am NOT running deep color. I'm running standard 8-bit color at 1080p out of the DVDO Edge to a Panasonic plasma.. It has been a solid performer.

good luck,
..dane


----------



## politby

I ended up buying an Atlona HDbase-T transmitter/receiver pair, AT-HDTX + AT-HDRX, from an ebay seller named BZB Express, $250 total. Transmits power to the receiver over the category cable. Works great.


----------



## cocomarie

*HDMI over cat 5 extender issues*

I have an Hdmi over cat5e extender, the run is about 15 feet. The signal works on the TV but the picture tends to jump. I am assuming this is a signal acceptance issue. Maybe the converter is having an issue accepting the signal from the cable box and transferring it to the TV. I am not sure what to do the converter box I have is for up to 150 feet and made for 1080p. 


The cable box is going into a receiver and the receiver has one out that goes into the TV.


----------



## HDgaming42

audiodane said:


> I am still running the HDMI XTENDEX from NTI. It is extremely expensive, but it hasn't failed me yet. I know this option will be out of most people's price points however.
> 
> I probably see no more than about five dropouts per year (yes you read that right).. However, I am only running cat5e and therefore am NOT running deep color. I'm running standard 8-bit color at 1080p out of the DVDO Edge to a Panasonic plasma.. It has been a solid performer.
> 
> good luck,
> ..dane


It sounds like we have pretty much the same setup. Can I ask how often you use your TV? For me, five dropouts a year would be about once each time I use it!  This year has been an exception though--looking forward to putting some hard hours on that plasma! 

That unit claims to deliver uncompressed HDMI. It must be _encoding _it to transmit over a single CAT6 cable though, correct? Doesn't HDMI have 19 active pins? CAT6 cable has, what, four pairs so 8 pins available?

I worry about the delay / lag involved with the encoding process. Have you tested for it? Do you play video games at all?



politby said:


> I ended up buying an Atlona HDbase-T transmitter/receiver pair, AT-HDTX + AT-HDRX, from an ebay seller named BZB Express, $250 total. Transmits power to the receiver over the category cable. Works great.


Ditto--any idea what the delay inherent in HDbase-T would be? I see claims of 10 microseconds online--I wonder if anyone has tested it.

It would be great if you could get a cheap, powered balun unit with a build-in Redmere chip on the receiving end. Would seem to be the cheapest solution and avoid those nasty dropouts.


----------



## audiodane

HDgaming42 said:


> It sounds like we have pretty much the same setup. Can I ask how often you use your TV? For me, five dropouts a year would be about once each time I use it!  This year has been an exception though--looking forward to putting some hard hours on that plasma!
> 
> That unit claims to deliver uncompressed HDMI. It must be _encoding _it to transmit over a single CAT6 cable though, correct? Doesn't HDMI have 19 active pins? CAT6 cable has, what, four pairs so 8 pins available?
> 
> I worry about the delay / lag involved with the encoding process. Have you tested for it? Do you play video games at all?
> 
> Ditto--any idea what the delay inherent in HDbase-T would be? I see claims of 10 microseconds online--I wonder if anyone has tested it.
> 
> It would be great if you could get a cheap, powered balun unit with a build-in Redmere chip on the receiving end. Would seem to be the cheapest solution and avoid those nasty dropouts.


Ha ha ha.. sorry, I should have clarified. Our set is THE television in the house.. (well, there's a small one in the bedroom but it's more to fall asleep to or when someone's home sick) So it gets multiple hours per day.. I actually juts checked yesterday and it has 7,307 hours on it.. That's roughly 4-5 hours per day for the last four years.. ROUGH estimate..

I love video games, but don't get much a chance to play. We have a Wii though, which may not be quiet as sensitive to delay as others because we don't play all the MMO games like call of duty or anything like that.. If there is delay, we've easily adapted to it.. I have no easy way to measure it though. 

..dane


----------



## John_Galt

Can someone recommend a reliable HDMI over Cat 6 option for me? I just finished my existing home installation using the inexpensive Monoprice plates, and the longest run (~150') flickers during 1080p material. 720p works fine, and the other 5 shorter runs all work fine as well. This TV is for 3D material though, so I do need the higher bandwidth. Is there a better option to use for this one room? Thanks


----------



## Joe Fernand

_HDgaming42_

_'It would be great if you could get a cheap, powered balun unit with a build-in Redmere chip on the receiving end'_ - RedMere IC's go in HDMI cable's not on the end of CAT cable, http://en.redmere.com/business/redmere_products.php


HDBT was developed by a bunch of the industry heavyweights and 'modulates' the full HDMI signal onto the CAT cable without any signal loss - I haven't received any complaints as yet from Gamers who are using our HDBT-lite extender - you can always return it if there were to be a problem - http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI_extender_HD70STPEX.html


John_Galt - see above 


Joe


----------



## HDgaming42

Joe Fernand said:


> HDBT was developed by a bunch of the industry heavyweights and 'modulates' the full HDMI signal onto the CAT cable without any signal loss - I haven't received any complaints as yet from Gamers who are using our HDBT-lite extender - you can always return it if there were to be a problem - http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI_extender_HD70STPEX.html


I think I'm going to wait for the settling of HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. Will this product line see integration of these specs?

Do you have a unit that also integrates USB (so I could extend a gaming PC and still use wired USB controllers). I don't see anything like that listed...


----------



## dw886

So I've been trying to catch up on this thread - I haven't been following it, although I have many miles of Cat6 in my home that drive all of my displays. I currently have 9 displays that are being run by Monoprice 8008 HDMI wall plates, and two runs of CAT6 UTP. The shortest are about 30 feet, and the two longest around about 130 feet.


What I've found is that almost all of my components (satellite receivers, avr, etc) do not have enough current to drive the signal. If I go from the component to the wallplate, it won't work for 75% of my components. The one "strong" component (blu-ray player) works.


That led me to try "amplification". I tried a few different devices. The one that seems to work is the Monoprice 8154 Splitter / Amplifier. If I go from component --> 8154 --> wallplate, then things start working (and has been working for almost 2 years). This has led to an abundance of 8154 units in my rack, as well as a ton of wall-warts to drive them all.


As I started thinking about the "problem", it all seems to boil down to the amperage of the HDMI signal (guess). That made me think about inserting additional voltage, which leads me to my question.


Has anyone gone down the path of using an HDMI Voltage Inserter, like this? : http://www.amazon.com/C2G-42236-Pow...8858060&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+voltage+inserter This seems much cleaner than using a splitter to bump the signal.


The 8154 units seem to be key to my implementation. I'd love to go HDBaseT, but the costs seem much higher at this point. The 8154 + 8008 combo is about $45/display.


----------



## HDgaming42

dw886 said:


> As I started thinking about the "problem", it all seems to boil down to the amperage of the HDMI signal (guess). That made me think about inserting additional voltage, which leads me to my question.


I'm quite curious to hear people's feedback on such a device. My Wii U outputs a very problematic signal--perhaps it is weak. Even running it through two different powered monoprice HDMI switches, it drops the signal intermittently. Even with Redmere cables.

I wonder if providing a bit of extra voltage before the signal travels any real distance would make a difference...


----------



## dw886

HDgaming42 said:


> I'm quite curious to hear people's feedback on such a device. My Wii U outputs a very problematic signal--perhaps it is weak. Even running it through two different powered monoprice HDMI switches, it drops the signal intermittently. Even with Redmere cables.


 
I've ordered one of these, and I'm going to test it out. 


Also, just to clarify, the *only* monoprice splitter that I've gotten to work is the 8154, as it is also an "amplifier". All of the other HDMI splitters and HDMI Matrix units that I've tried from monoprice fail to give me enough signal to use their 8008 baluns, unless I put an 8154 behind the output of the matrix, in which case it bumps up the signal enough that it works (that's how I'm currently running).


----------



## HDgaming42

dw886 said:


> I've ordered one of these, and I'm going to test it out.
> 
> 
> Also, just to clarify, the *only* monoprice splitter that I've gotten to work is the 8154, as it is also an "amplifier". All of the other HDMI splitters and HDMI Matrix units that I've tried from monoprice fail to give me enough signal to use their 8008 baluns, unless I put an 8154 behind the output of the matrix, in which case it bumps up the signal enough that it works (that's how I'm currently running).


I've got item 4088, which claims "This switch features a built-in HDMI signal equalizer, which helps compensate for weak signals." I've found it is very picky, and when combined with anything else (video processor, receiver, CAT5e baluns) I get a dropped signal.

I also have item 5312, which makes no extraordinary claims but works better in the same scenario. However it is still unusable with my Wii U.

I'm curious if you had the same units...

I also have the 8008 wall plates but have yet to install them (don't have the tool to terminate CAT5e as male!). I used 8121 instead, and they burned up after about 8 months of use. Now they just drop the signal continually. I have a 30ft HDMI cable laying across the floor until I figure this out...

Although I've initially shied away from the price of HDBaseT stuff, I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with cheap Monoprice junk. Their cables? Great experiences. Their electronics? Not so much.


----------



## dw886

I have never tried the 4088, so I can't say about that particular product




HDgaming42 said:


> I also have item 5312, which makes no extraordinary claims but works better in the same scenario. However it is still unusable with my Wii U.
> 
> I'm curious if you had the same units...


I have however tried the 5312 which you mentioned. The 5312 doesn't seem to have enough power by itself. The only way that I can get this to work is Source --> 5312 (4x2 Matrix) --> 8154 (Splitter / Amplifier) --> 8008 (HDMI Wallplate TX) --> CAT6 --> 8008 (HDMI Wallplate RX) --> Display


I have also tried the 5704 (4x4 Matrix), and the same scenario results. I have to put an 8154 between the 5704 matrix and the 8008 wallplate for it to work. I'm using the 8154 splitters even when I don't want the video split, as it's the only way that the 8008 wallplates work...




dw886 said:


> Has anyone gone down the path of using an HDMI Voltage Inserter, like this? : http://www.amazon.com/C2G-42236-Pow...8858060&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+voltage+inserter This seems much cleaner than using a splitter to bump the signal.



For anyone wondering, I ordered a few of these "HDMI Voltage Inserters" to try instead of using the 8154 Splitter / Amplifier from Monoprice to "boost" the signal, as it would allow me to clean up my A/V rack some. It *did not* work. It probably does what it states that it does (inserts some additional voltage), but it didn't have the same effect as the 8154, and was not enough to drive the 8008 wallplates...


----------



## HDgaming42

dw886 said:


> For anyone wondering, I ordered a few of these "HDMI Voltage Inserters" to try instead of using the 8154 Splitter / Amplifier from Monoprice to "boost" the signal, as it would allow me to clean up my A/V rack some. It *did not* work. It probably does what it states that it does (inserts some additional voltage), but it didn't have the same effect as the 8154, and was not enough to drive the 8008 wallplates...


Thanks for reporting back. I wonder if I bought an 8154 my baluns would "come back to life"...


----------



## louder

*How do I control 2 devices via IR using HDMI extender*

Need help here. I need to control a cable box and stereo receiver using IR control via an HDMI over single Cat 5 extender kit. The kit I am using is a 5 volt unit that has an IR sensor eye, and a single IR emitter. When I try to swap the single IR emitter with a dual IR emitter, I am only able to control one device, not both.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## audiodane

FWIW, an HDMI Voltage Inserter does NOTHING to the data signal, as far as I understand it. All it's doing is inserting the +5V signal on the +5V signal path on the HDMI cable. Therefore an HDMI Voltage Inserter can be used to power a downstream device that gets its power from the HDMI channel itself if by chance the source device can't deliver the rated current that the HDMI spec requires to be "compliant." So, I'm not surprised that an HDMI Voltage Inserter is doing nothing to help signal strength or integrity. An HDMI amplifier may be an interesting combination with some of the baluns, though I have a sneaky suspicion that if it were that easy, it would been solved by now? Maybe I'm just being pessimistic..

..dane


----------



## Ebay

Hello.

So after reading about HDMI extenders and HDMI over TCP/IP, I decided to try to connect my desktop computer (GTX680) to my HDMI television on the second floor. I'm thinking on using this product --> http://mobidick.su/en/katalog/element.php?IBLOCK_ID=44&SECTION_ID=258&ELEMENT_ID=2305 (there are tons selling on Ebay), as this works over TCP/IP, and I can use my existing Gigabit Ethernet network (with some switches in the way).

This is the usable bandwidth between the two points:


My question is, what can I expect from this product? Will the image quality be the same, or will compression be excessive and noticeable and I will experience a lot of blackouts?
With that bandwidth, can I expect to achieve [email protected] between the two points without interruptions?

Best Regards.


----------



## audiodane

Ebay said:


> Hello.
> 
> So after reading about HDMI extenders and HDMI over TCP/IP, I decided to try to connect my desktop computer (GTX680) to my HDMI television on the second floor. I'm thinking on using this product --> http://mobidick.su/en/katalog/element.php?IBLOCK_ID=44&SECTION_ID=258&ELEMENT_ID=2305 (there are tons selling on Ebay), as this works over TCP/IP, and I can use my existing Gigabit Ethernet network (with some switches in the way).
> 
> This is the usable bandwidth between the two points:
> 
> 
> My question is, what can I expect from this product? Will the image quality be the same, or will compression be excessive and noticeable and I will experience a lot of blackouts?
> With that bandwidth, can I expect to achieve [email protected] between the two points without interruptions?
> 
> Best Regards.


I'm not an expert on the HDMI spec, but a 1080p signal is somewhere around 10Gbps uncompressed max. So for sure the device you're looking at cannot handle that.. There will certainly be compression requirements. The real question is how much, and how bad. Amazon Prime streams 1080p at around 8Mbps and while it doesn't quite rival a good transfer on bluray, I have to say after watching it for the past three weeks with my wife almost every night (binging on Avatar animated series, Parenthood, and Dr. Who), on a 50" TV from a viewing distance of around 15-17ft, it still looks awesome.

So the questions are more along the lines of 1) what are your use cases and 2) what are your expectations? The answers to those two questions will help guide your decision about this product.

If there's any way to get a unit with a decent return policy, it would be a nice safety net in case the device doesn't perform up to expectations (regardless of what the specs say).

cheers,
..dane


----------



## Ebay

audiodane said:


> I'm not an expert on the HDMI spec, but a 1080p signal is somewhere around 10Gbps uncompressed max. So for sure the device you're looking at cannot handle that.. There will certainly be compression requirements. The real question is how much, and how bad. Amazon Prime streams 1080p at around 8Mbps and while it doesn't quite rival a good transfer on bluray, I have to say after watching it for the past three weeks with my wife almost every night (binging on Avatar animated series, Parenthood, and Dr. Who), on a 50" TV from a viewing distance of around 15-17ft, it still looks awesome.
> 
> So the questions are more along the lines of 1) what are your use cases and 2) what are your expectations? The answers to those two questions will help guide your decision about this product.
> 
> If there's any way to get a unit with a decent return policy, it would be a nice safety net in case the device doesn't perform up to expectations (regardless of what the specs say).
> 
> cheers,
> ..dane


Hi.

After reading this article about that unit, I'm going to pass --> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...danman.eu/blog/reverse-engin...r-ip-extender/

It was too good to be true


----------



## AV Hack

Ebay said:


> Hi.
> 
> After reading this article about that unit, I'm going to pass -->
> It was too good to be true


Good call.


----------



## 1C5

having a strange issue. I have a rather long HDMI run from TV to media rack in basement (maybe 75 feet)...
first tried hooking up a 60" Pioneer Plasma to various sources and was getting bad noise.

Then I tried with a different TV...a 60" Samsung plasma. The HDMI cable worked perfectly in 1080p. No issues.

And now I got a new TV, an 80" Sharp LCD and having issues again with the HDMI signal. Picture is cutting in and out. Wondering what you suggest i try to get the Sharp working with this HDMI cable. Why did the Samsung work perfectly and the Pioneer and Sharp have issues with the same HDMI cable?

Also I have 2 extra unused cat5e lines running to the TV if those can be used for anything.

Please help!


----------



## SMHarman

The 2 CAT5e can be uses for HDBaseT oR cheaper Baluns.


----------



## Mike Ely

*Projector distortion from HDMI extender*

I'll send this to you all while I have a little hair left...
I currently have 2 projectors hooked up using the following setup:

Laptop (HDMI) > J-Tech HDMI Splitter> J-Tech HDMI extender> 90' Cat6 UTP> HDMI Receiver> HDMI Cable> Front Projector
Identical setup to rear projector, except the distance is about 30'

Current problem: Front projector looks beautiful, no issues. Rear projector shows distortion/lines anytime there is an image on the screen. 
Troubleshooting steps: 
Laptop plugged directly into projector via HDMI: works great
Laptop HDMI plugged directly into rear extender (bypassing splitter): distortion on rear
Temporary CAT6 cable ran from rear extender to rear receiver: distortion on rear
Transmitter, receiver and projector all connected temporarily to same power source (8-port power conditioner): distortion on rear
Swapping transmitter/receiver from front projector: distortion on rear
Lower resolution on laptop: distortion on rear
Tried swapping HDMI cables, plugins, etc.: no change
I spoke to J-Tech's tech support and they are happy to send out a replacement, but since the front has always worked great, even on the transmitter/receiver from the rear projector, I don't think this will help.
I'm not real sure what to try next (other than HDbaseT) and still stay within budget. Has anyone else come across anything similar? 
I don't want to finish building the rear screen until I can get all the bugs worked out, so we are projecting on the regular wall for now.


----------



## pmoyers

*stuttering only on certain content*

Quick question. I just successfully installed an HDMI over Cat5e converter, and it works great for streaming almost all of my media via PS3 app delivery (I have an older Sony TV without the apps found on the PS3).

However, while I can see very high framerate mp4's via PS4 delivery, I have noticed that some content from amazon, mostly TV based content, stutters when I try to use this, even though movies streamed via Amazon prime, have no such problem.

Have you ever had experience where some content streams flawlessly, and some does not? Is there a content mismatch possible. I am using a relatively high end Snap system.

Thanks. Before I go out and have to buy some new TV, I thought I'd ask here.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Connect the Source direct to the TV via a High Speed HDMI cable and rerun the test!


Joe


----------



## mattk1102

*Cat5E Crimping....*

Hello all, just had a question regarding the Cat5E crimping method....

I purchased a 500ft bulk spool for Cables2Go Cat5E Plenum Cable. I'm using the Sabrent HDMI-EXTC adapter. I was wondering if one method of crimping the Cat5E is more suitable for video/audio. T568A? T568B? Somehting else? Does it matter? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Joe Fernand

The Installation Manual for the Extender will/should indicate which wiring scheme to use.


Joe


----------



## Cjorgy

It doesn't really matter as long as it's the same on both ends...I find that most people use B so I use it too..


----------



## parkerjd

*HDCP issue with Mac/AppleTV using HDMI zone out*

I have a family room Yamaha AV receiver (A3000) and a basement Yamaha AV receiver (A2030). AppleTV in both spaces, and a Mac Mini media computer in the Family room.

I have run HDMI over EtherNet (Cat6e) both up and down between the receivers (though the A3000 only mirrors the zone out with the main out HDMI, while the A2030 allows the zone out source to be set independently.)

_The gist is this_:
The Mac Mini input, and also the AppleTV input show HDCP handshake issue blinking while the HDMI over Ethernet (HoE) connection from the HDMI zone output is connected. The blinking stops and output is perfect, when I unplug the HoE from the receiver HDMI 2 out. The problem occurs when the output is connected, but even though the signal is not actually being used (source selected) in the other room.

Output from other sources (Wii U) and Blu-Ray player (Oppo) work just fine with the HoE connection in place.

Unfortunately, this means that the HoE connection must be left unconnected to use the Mac or AppleTV (which is nearly always.) I only can connect when specifically wanting to share signal between the rooms from one of the (non Apple) working sources (which is a pain.)

HoE used is:
8121 - HDMI® Extender Using Cat5e or CAT6 Cable.
Cat6e cables are stock pre-terminated cables of about ~35 feet length.
I have unplugged and rebooted all devices (multiple times.)
Both receivers have had firmware updates.
Both receivers have had the HDMI up-scale limits set to skip.
Cabling is clearly ok as some sources work perfectly.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Joe Fernand

Pretty common to see this issue when you try and cascade AVR's - the HDCP Keychain is failing with the Apple devices.

You may have to consider an HDMI Matrix ahead of the first AVR - with the Matrix Outputting to the two AVR's and use the Extender on one Outout of the Matrix, that way the Matrix will handle HDCP properly.

https://www.octavainc.com/HDMI switch 4x2_7_1audio.html

Joe


----------



## audiodane

Dose anyone following this thread deal with Matrox much? Our church is looking for a Video-over-IP solution to distribute a feed across the campus IP network.. That's a bit beyond most of the HDMI-over-(dedicated)-CatXX discussed here, but this place is such a wonderful resource I thought I'd give it a shot..

cheers,
..dane


----------



## Ward216

audiodane said:


> Dose anyone following this thread deal with Matrox much?.....
> ..dane


Hey Dane,
I haven't used Matrox brand products before, but after checking their website I'm going to see if I can order some products and test them in house. I've been using Cypress and Just Add Power for IP based extenders. I can tell you that not all managed network switches play nicely with IP based extenders. This year I've started getting calls about newer Cisco switches when used in a 2 layer topology. All things considered I think they work great if they're on their own network or isolated with a VLAN from other traffic. Let me know how that shakes out at the campus and I'll put in a request to buy some Matrox Maevex units this week. I'm curious to see how they implement EDID polling, does it monitor it in real time and detect hot plugging a new monitor, etc.


----------



## audiodane

Ward216 said:


> Hey Dane,
> I haven't used Matrox brand products before, but after checking their website I'm going to see if I can order some products and test them in house. I've been using Cypress and Just Add Power for IP based extenders. I can tell you that not all managed network switches play nicely with IP based extenders. This year I've started getting calls about newer Cisco switches when used in a 2 layer topology. All things considered I think they work great if they're on their own network or isolated with a VLAN from other traffic. Let me know how that shakes out at the campus and I'll put in a request to buy some Matrox Maevex units this week. I'm curious to see how they implement EDID polling, does it monitor it in real time and detect hot plugging a new monitor, etc.


Thanks Ward.. Looks like the church is interested in trying the Matrox solution. We're in the process of a network infrastructure upgrade so it may be a few months, but I'll try to remember to come back here and report how it goes..

Certainly a more expensive solution, and certainly employs H.264 encoding, but also for a vastly different application than uber-quality home theaters!

..dane


----------



## wkopera

Hi all,

I have an Intelix HDMI/VGA wallplate to cat6 to Intelix HD60C-R to Epson 1945w Projector - all brand new. Laptops connected with HDMI plays DVD fine, but a Sony DVD player does not. I get the splash screen, but when the DVD starts playing the projector screen goes black. Works fine if I connect directly (DVD to HDMI to Projector), but not when run through the extender. The jumpers/pins in the Intelix are set to auto detect and pass through, and the cat 6 has been tested pin by pin. We've even tried more than one DVD player and had the same result. The tech guy from the company we bought if from says all pieces should handle any resolution, and I've tried a few different DVD's in case there was a copyright protection issue (though I'm not completely confident any of them did not have it for sure). Any ideas?


----------



## Joe Fernand

Are you connecting the HDBT Receiver to the HDMI Input on the Projector?


Joe


----------



## pjirele

Thanks again everyone for your past assistance and recommendations, much appreciated.

Issue: Cannot get a resolution greater than 1080p 24hz with my J-Tech HDMI over single Ethernet Cable Extender (supports CAT5/e, 6 up to 300 ft

Setup/Video Equipment:
XFinity Cable Box Does 1080p (60hz I believe) and below
WDTV Media Hub: Does 1080p (60hz, 50hz, 24hz and below)
Sony Bluray Player: 1080p 24hz I believe
XBox One: 1080p and 720p with "allow" 50hz and 24hz options
Generic DK104 PET0104P HDMI Splitter 1x4 Ports 4 Port 1080P v1.3 HDTV 3D HD Audio splitter from Amazon (supports everything it states) 
Sharp 46 inch 1080p 60hz compatible HDTV
Epson Powerlite 8100 (1080p 60hz compatible)
Element 24 inch 1080p 60hz compatible HDTV
Pioneer 5 HDMI input 1 HDMI output receiver


1x4 HDMI splitter is connected to my: Projector via 35ft HDMI cable (no issues with 1080p 60hz), Sharp TV via 2 CAT6 cables (Monoprice HDMI extender over 2 CAT6 cables - no issues with 1080p 60hz) and lastly to my J-Tech HDMI extender to my Element TV (only supports 1080p 24hz and below).

I have CAT5e run from my living room to my mechanical room (85 ft)
I then have another CAT5e run from my mechanical room back to my bar area (40 ft) -(Issue location)
Although the specs state I should be using T568B terminations I terminated them with T568A RJ45 "female" ends then connected the two ends (Living room to mechanical room CAT5 run Mechanical room to bar run) with a "factory" CAT5 T568B cable. Each end of my HDMI extender uses a CAT5 T568B factory cable. Note, the reason I did the T568A connections is because our networking guy at work said that as long as both ends match up pin-to-pin they are interchangeable. Also, everything I've read online states the same thing. (Initially tested the full run from basement living room to bar that was connected to my router and passed the online speed test with flying colors) 

*If I bypass the run from the mechanical room to my bar with a 50ft factory terminated CAT5 cable run just laid on the floor to the bar area and connected to my J-Tech HDMI extender receiver end I can get 1080p 60hz no problem to the bar Element TV (note, TV is 1080p 60hz compatible). As soon as I connect my "normal" run of CAT5e I have to change my settings back down (WDTV to 1080p 24hz, XBox One to 720p, Bluray already outputs to 1080p 24hz and lastly my XFinity box to 1080i) to get it all working seamlessly on all 3 TVs/Projectors. 

*Things I've tried:
1. Unplugging the Projector and SharpTV connections from my 1x4 Splitter so only the bar/Element TV is connected (no luck - 1080p 24hz max) -thinking the signal may be degraded with all 3 connections. (worth a try)
2. Directly connecting my Receiver's HDMI output to my Extender input (no luck - 1080p 24hz max) 
3. I have a backup 1x2 J-Tech splitter that I connected only the Receiver's output to and Extender to. (no luck - 1080p 24hz max)
4. Bought 3ft replacement HDMI cables to connect to both ends of the HDMI extender.
5. Replaced CAT5 Extender cables as well as my mechanical room "bridge/coupler cables with new factory cables (already had factory cables but hey, worth a tri).
6. Drank a lot, prayed, surfed the internet all day at work today for an answer, almost cried. Ha 

*In the end, the only thing that gives my full 1080p 60hz resolution on my Element bar TV is if I bypass my mechanical room connection with a factory connected cable. 

-Could it be possible that my second run (mechanical room to bar) has just enough interference from my electrical wires in the ceiling or wall that my connection is being impacted?
-Did/does terminating my CAT5e cables using the T568A standard make an impact?
-Should I re-check my RJ45 punch downs I did to make sure they are all secure? (wouldn't it be an all or nothing from a connectivity perspective if one was indeed loose/not connected?) 
-Should I be using a punch down block/panel to join the two CAT 5e runs? (I seem to be well within standards for my run to not have to be using a punch down block/panel to connect the two runs)

Thank you all for reading my long winded post but I've reached the end of my troubleshooting I think (hope I've overlooked something). I just can't stomach running my XBox One with a resolution of 720p to get all the displays to work at once. That also goes for XFinity "HD" cable in 1080i mode. It just doesn't seem right. Ha. Of course my wife and 3 kids don't care but I know the real truth........ 

Best Wishes,
Pat


----------



## wkopera

Joe Fernand said:


> Are you connecting the HDBT Receiver to the HDMI Input on the Projector?
> 
> 
> Joe


Was that question for me? If so, then yes. There is an HDMI cable between the receiver and the projector.

Thanks!


----------



## rbpeirce

I have had a powered Sabrent extender for over a year. I only use it to pass video to a Panasonic plasma TV from a Denon AVR X-4000. It isn't that far and an HDMI cable would work. Unfortunately, all the wiring is in the walls and I can't get at it.

Until recently it worked fine. [I am using a DTV Genii mini to drive the AVR and I have no idea what resolution it is transmitting.] Then I started to get brief 1-2 second dropouts, by which I mean the screen would go blank. These became more common and then it started to go out entirely. I would have to cycle the equipment to restore video. Audio worked fine.

Lately, it has started to turn off (or on, if it is off) when an electric switch is turned on or off. The switch can control a light or fan. It doesn't seem to matter. In fact, if the extender spontaneously turns off I can now turn it back on by flicking a switch; no more equipment cycling.

Since it worked perfectly for many months I am wondering if the unit is failing or if something else is going on. Any ideas?


----------



## SethMan919

Ebay said:


> Hi.
> 
> After reading this article about that unit, I'm going to pass --> http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...danman.eu/blog/reverse-engin...r-ip-extender/
> 
> It was too good to be true


Need Help bad.... My church just moved to a new location and we installed all new projectors. we have two screens that are used with cameras for image magnification. we are currently using the units mentioned in this article. They are running over dedicated 300' cat 6 runs. They seem to be working but there is a very bad lag. 800ms or more causing the audio to be out of sync with the video being displayed on the image magnification. These units seem to be designed to run on a true LAN and not just a dedicated cat 6. anyone know what products would work better on a dedicated run over 300' to help eliminate the Lag? or do we need to go with a fiber solution?


----------



## audiodane

Most reliable extender solutions are going to be laggy by the nature of them having to do some processing on the data to pipe it out over a different medium and then back again. I am not sure what the best live solution is to still get HD quality.

I believe our church is running 1080p VGA over a 150' discrete-coax RGB VGA cable. It turns it into an analog solution, but little to no conversion lag. Does your projector support 1080p (1920x1080) over VGA? Of course depending on how large your screen is and how far from the crowd you could likely use 720p and 99% of your congregation will never even know the difference (assuming 1% of your congregation volunteer in the audio/video booth ). You can run discrete RGB over coax a LONG way, and can even put it through a distribution amplifier if you need to.

I'm *not* a pro at running a live setup such as a church however, so maybe (_*hopefully*_!) someone else can chime in with a more complete answer, including suggestions. My post is simply to give an idea or two and to spark conversation. 

cheers,
..dane


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## hdmi4ever

From doing the math based on the uncompressed data rate of 1080p60 video, it's clear there must be some video compression involved to enable transmission over a gigabit connection.

But what about the audio? Which of these products will pass the lossless hi-def audio codecs unaltered to the receiving end, without downmixing to stereo and/or reducing the sample rate or transcoding to a lossy format? Have you observed that your AV receiver or preamplifier shows that it's receiving Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master via your HDMI over Cat5e/Cat6/Cat7 converters?


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## Joe Fernand

HDBT carries HD Audio without compression - making that happen in a multi-zone system can be tricky unless all Zones support HD Audio.

Joe


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## Chris Costello

*A "bridge" too far?*

I've got an interesting problem I'm trying to solve to extend HDMI (and IR control) into my back yard from inside the house. I've divided up the problem into two parts, getting HDMI to an outside wall from an interior room, then doing wireless HDMI from the outside wall into the back yard. To keep as sane as possible, I'm working the solution out on a test bench before punching holes in the wall! I'm using my mid-2012 MacBook Pro as the HDMI source, and a Samsung UN28H4500AF as the display.

I've found workable solutions for each of the parts:

1. Wired HDMI - I used a wall plate/2 cat 5e cable system from ******* (1105-SF-15) and it works great by itself.
2. Wireless HDMI - I used Peerless-AV HDS-WHDI100 for distribution in the back yard and it works great (line-of-site application) by itself.

However, when I put the two together, I get either unrecognized format errors on the Peerless-AV, or just no display (but the lights tell me the transmitter and receiver are bound). I can change the behavior of the problem via power up order and I once thought I had fixed the problem as I got a picture. Unfortunately it quickly faded to black.

Unfortunately, there is not enough documentation to determine whether everyone is using the same HDMI spec and the Customer Service folks don't know either. Any ideas? Or is the nature of the HDMI protocol just one of this has no prayer. Thanks in advance for any insight.


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## Joe Fernand

If you plan on staying sane ditch the Wireless HD and run a cable - HDMI over HDBT on a single CAT6 is the most reliable option.

Choose an HDBT Extender which supports IR and PoH (power over HDBT).


Joe


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## Ward216

I would agree with Joe. Use CAT6 500Mhz cable, stranded is OK if under 100 feet total. Use factory terminated cable if possible. Don't use RJ45 wall jacks as they will introduce signal reflections at each connection point. Also, no sharp bends in the cable, 90 degree bends should be around 3 inch radius. Single piece of cable is the most reliable by far. Four devices is tough to pull off: source, extender 1, extender 2, and display.
edit: is this outside display temporary or permanent? the latter requires more work due to potential ground bounce.


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## Chris Costello

Thanks for the reply Joe. I agree wired is the way to go for best / most reliable connection. Unfortunately, I don't have a fixed position for the TV and I already have the wireless and it's tested out good so far. So I think I'll try it. I'm also going to try a non-powered HDMI extender to see if that will impact the solution (probably not - but it's returnable). If that doesn't work, I'll put coax through the wall and put a set-top box outside (under covered porch). That will remove the requirement to use an HDMI extender. I'll post an update on my progress.


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## Chris Costello

Thanks for the reply Ward. See previous reply to Joe. I also appreciate the info on cabling. The outside display is temporary. I have multiple places where a TV would be nice sometime, but it won't be used frequently - so simple setup and takedown is ok. I generally have power available in those spots - so no long power cords expected.


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## mcurci

*Help with connections please*

Looking at purchasing a duel zone AV Receiver: Pioneer VSX 1130-K, which will be stored in a media closet > 50ft away from the 2 sources (TV's) I want to hook it up to. I will have 5 HDMI inputs feeding into the Pioneer. My questions are

1. How can I make the connection and keep the 4k content in both zones?

2. Will I be able to access all my HDMI inputs in both zones if I go to an HDBaseT Extender Kit or other? If I am hooking up the two HDMI cables from the Receiver and not the actual Sources themselves (Roku, Apple TV, Blu Ray, Other).


Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you !


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## Detox

I tried reading through this thread, but I not sure I was able to find the answer I was looking for. 

I have a single Cat6e cable run of approx 30' . What specifically do I need to add to each end to use this Cat6e cable as an HDMI cable for things like gaming boxes (eg. Xbox One or PS4)?

Thanks 
Detox


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## avnoob84

I have a media room with Cat5e pre-wired by the builder. Attic access above the room is very limited so unable to run a new HDMI cable drop. I am trying to setup 3D projector connecting to my Onkyo receiver.

What's the best quality HDMI over single Cat5e balun out in the market that would work perfectly for my needs?


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## thenextdon13

Another product to add to the list

- Source-end: Harman Kardon AVR354 (upconverting content from 720p to 1080p, as well as 1080p native content)
- CatX Adapter: Vanco 280713 (Bought from mcm audio,


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## wascwabbit

Hey all, appealing to your knowledge for help please. I have a Pioneer receiver that is displaying just fine to my Vizio TV via the HDMI Extenders (Monoprice model # 6532) with a 75 ft run of dual Cat 6 cables. The input port on the TV is port #5 which is 4K @ 60hz possible. The sources have been my xbox One and xfinity x1 connecting via HDMI to the receiver. The receiver is a SC-65 which is an elite and can handle 1.4a and does 4K "pass through". 

I built a HTPC with a gigabyte mobo w/z170 chipset board. I am running onboard graphics (HD530). The HTPC is fully functional via DVI and a small LCD monitor, and can display directly via HDMI to a 720p LG that is not the main TV. When I connect it to the receiver and run it to the Vizio, I get a "no signal" graphic on the TV. Keep in mind, my A/V closet is 75 ft from the theater and directly connecting the HTCP to the TV is not really an option.

After reading through multiple manuals, I think its a combination of the receiver and the extenders. The receiver cannot down compress a signal from certain sources (video compression) - in this case the HTPC. The extenders are rated for 1.2. 

Is it logical to think that the xifinity and xbox both are not outputting at 1.4? Ive tried multiple hdmi's on the receiver and the TV. I'm concerned that I will buy the new HDbaseT extenders and that they will not make a difference. Is a dedicated video card the answer or will I still be stuck with a legacy receiver restricting the data via "pass through". Do I need both the new HDbaseT extenders and a vid card? I've found others online with this same chipset not having an issue with 4K @ 27hz. Is it the TV? I guess Im grasping at straws. 

Lastly, did you see the most recent Walking Dead? How bout that!!! 'Appreciate your help and feedback.


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## wascwabbit

Working on the solution - the mobo will connect directly to the TV thru HDMI port 5. When it is connected it does say 2160 as the resolution. I could not get it to work with any other port. 

If the z170 chipset is having some sort of handshake issue, then that could be why the extenders failed as well as the non-4K hdmi ports, since they are 1.2 only. 

I have two different 4K hdmi extenders on order now. Once is a Gefen 4K HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, 4K @ 60hz which, from everything I can tell, is the latest and greatest chip from the HDBaseT consortium. The other is an E-SDS 4K, HDMI 1.4 with "cinematic 4K" from Amazon. Both use a single Cat5e/6 cable. Hopefully this will resolve any of the issues I'm dealing with from the Z170 chipset. The E-SDS is not HDMI 2.0 or HDCP 2.2, and I do plan on installing a dedicated gaming vid card for HDMI 2.0 in the future.


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## Rbentley100

I have been using the following HDMI extender for a while. At first everything seemed fine, but now it resync's every 40 minutes or so. (it isn't the source as I have tested multiple sources:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extender-E...4018579&sr=8-6&keywords=hdmi+network+extender

So I am looking to get a more reliable setup, ideally one that can handle 4k at 60hz as well, to keep myself protected in the future. (At the moment I only send [email protected])

I have 2 cat 6 cables running through the wall already (but they aren't both identical in length if that's required)

Any help is appreciated.


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## Joe Fernand

Existing kit - anything else changed in the 'environment', fridge, lighting etc which could be inundating your CAT cables?

Future proofing - currently it is problematic as no Extender can currently cover everything UHD BD can throw at a compatible Display, you can get close but have to compromise somewhere or go to Fibre.

Joe


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## Rbentley100

Nothing I am aware of unfortunately, I will probably test my 2nd cat 6 cable to see if that has the same issues.

If I picked up an adapter that used 2xcat 6 would that then be more stable? Or is 2xcat 6 just the old standard that has been outdated now?

Ok, for now ill hold off on trying to get 4k 60hz. Ill settle for rock solid 1080p 

Anything I should look for in extender kits? any terminology, or brands names I should try to get?

I find it really hard to determine what is worth it and what isnt, there seem to be no good reviews out there for these things. i.e.:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ex-Pro®-HD..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=TGHZ1M13XD7C6SNA683C

looks on paper to be brilliant, but I cant see any mention of refresh rate so I assume it does [email protected] and [email protected] but I don't like assuming on something that is going to cost me £90.


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## Rbentley100

Just some feedback in case it helps anyone else.

Swapping to my spare cat 6 cable did nothing. So I ordered the Neet HDBaseT adapter. I am using it over ~10meters [email protected] No issues at all so far, so it appears it was my old adaptor causing the cut outs.


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## MistaChy

I've been using a SIIG: http://www.frys.com/product/5827463...-wIFpi_uotteEdOzQZoUxZ159J-3kyUBXcaAu9A8P8HAQ

For five years, and while it still works... it has never been a solid setup. I use it with a home theatre PC running Nvidia GTX graphics with HDMI out going into a Marantz Reciever, then to an Epson projector. While it would never run at 60hz, I dropped it down to 30hz using Cat 6 cable, and it worked... but then my receiver went out recently and I replaced it with an old sony pre HDMI inputs. I went to the store and got a HDMI audio extractor, ran HDMI to my projector, and a separate audio signal over optical out to the receiver. When I did this, the SIIG would not work on 30 hz. I went up to 60, picture very fuzzy with horizontal lines but worked for a short while, then i dropped down the 30hz with perfect picture, but the picture kept dropping/flashing slowly. So, then I go back up th 60hz which no longer works for some reason then back down to 50hz which is holding with a fuzzy picture. None of the numbers on the adjustable signal dial on the SIIG produce a decent picture. 

After reading all 16 pages, I was considering buying the mono priced 6532... because im broke and cheap. What do you guys think, or would you recommend a differnet one? I dont have much finances to contribute to this anymore. That 40 dollars looks fantastic, but I hope its not spent in vain. 

What I want to acheive is 1080p, 60hz, no dropped picture, no fuzz.... Im running 35 feet cat 6 cable.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## cmynuts210

airscapes said:


> Can you try a component cable from your source bypassing everything else directly to the display and see if you still loss the picture.... If no, then use HDMI from a source direct to the display and see what happens.. then add your components back in one at a time. Standard trouble shooting, process of elimination.
> 
> Good luck and let us know what happens.


HI, I would be great full if you could point me in the right direction regarding the below issue i have with my HDMI extender. 

I have a CAT6 to HDMI extender to be able to view tv in my bedroom, however once i turn my main TV in the lounge on standby and then continue to view TV in the bedroom the TV signal discounts and the screen switches off. this is fixed only if i keep my main TV in the lounge switched on. 

Dose anyone have a solution for this?

Thanks in advance
John


----------



## airscapes

What is the source feeding the HDMI extender? Is it a matrix switch or an HDMI out from the existing TV? Is it an AVR?

Does you TV in the bedroom work if you turn it on with the other TV OFF to start?

A full description of you signal chain is needed for anyone to be of much assistance.

One thing not related to the signal chain is some companies (Panasonic in particular) have a feature where you can can control other TVs and devices from one master set.. I forget what it is called but when active it can drive you nuts with other devices going on and off.


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## Montgomery Minds

*Looking for better solution*

Tried 2 setups, going to try 3rd.
This is low-end: 720p.

Application is a church sanctuary. 2 projectors 2 screens plus booth monitor. Option to add rear confidence monitor one day.
Run lengths:
150' to projector 1.
75' to projector 2.
Source is someone's laptop.
Currently testing with a 2010 Dell Inspiron 14R (N4010) with VGA & HDMI outputs.
And a 2011 HP EliteBook 8760w with VGA & DisplayPort outputs.
But really want guest to come in with whatever laptop and plug in and have it work.
I was testing using "Extend these display" on Windows 7 so I can have different content on the projector screen than laptop screen.
I can also set the resolution of the external display independently of the laptop screen display doing it this way.
Both projectors are Sony VPL-FX52 with VGA & DVI-D inputs--but no HDMI input.
Both 150' and 75' cables are Cat6 stranded, 24AWG cable (Cable Matters).

TRY 1 - VGA

Laptops VGA output into:
StarTech.com ST1212T 2 Port VGA over Cat5 Video Extender - Transmitter
which has 2x Ethernet outputs, and 1x VGA output for local monitor.
into the Cat6 cables
into 2x identical StarTech.com ST121R VGA Video Extender Remote Receiver over Cat 5
which have 2x VGA outputs each. I only used one of them each.

I was very happy with the signal distribution in this setup. I tested only 720p.
My problem was my projector is XGA and insisted on 4x3 aspect ratio. So when I sent 720p, it
stretched it tall. So I had to set the laptops to 1024x768 resolution for the external monitor and then constrain my image to 16x9.
Eg, 16x9 powerpoint presentation, or 16x9 video files from PC. These displayed properly on the projector.
4x3 video files, however, would display above and below my 16x9 screen.
So I returned those StarTech extender units to Amazon.

TRY 2 - HDMI

I was not happy with this solution.
I bought:
Tripp Lite 4-Port HDMI over Cat5 / Cat6 Extender Splitter, Transmitter for Video and Audio, 1920x1200 1080p at 60Hz(B126-004) 
for the transmitter/splitter and
2 of Tripp Lite HDMI Over Cat5 / Cat6 Extender, Extended Range Receiver for Video and Audio 1920x1200 1080p at 60Hz(B126-1A0)
as the receivers.
Then I had to buy 2 HDMI-DVI-D cables
(AmazonBasics HDMI to DVI Adapter Cable - 3 Feet (Latest Standard))
(Amazon id=B014I8UL8U- - just joined, can't post links)
at the receiver end, to connect the HDMI output of the Cat5 receiver to the DVI-D input of the projector.
I also periodically swapped in a VIZIO 24" D24 TV with HDMI input at the remote end for testing.

The Dell laptop could never send a signal through the Tripp Lite splitter/exender that the Sony projectors would recognize.
Blank screen, no matter what resoultion I chose in Windows 7's Display Resolution settings (1080p 60Hz & 59Hz 32bit color, 1080i 25Hz 32bit color, 1080p 60Hz 16bit color, 1080i 29Hz & 25Hz 16 bit color, 720 60Hz & 59Hz & 50Hz 32bit & 16 bit color, 1024x768 60 & 59Hz 32 & 16bit color)

Swapping in the VIZIO TV as the second remote display, worked pretty well.
All the 16x9 resolution settings worked perfectly.
The 4x3 1024x768 was stretched wide on the VIZIO with no way to correct on the VIZIO.
Meanwhile, simultaneously, the projector was always blank just like when it was alone.

However, connecting Dell straight to projector using the same HDMI-DVI-D cable worked much better.
I was not given the 1080x option by Windows 7. Highest resolution offered was 1280x1024 which is a weird 1.25x aspect ratio.
In the 1280x720 range I was only offered 60Hz 32 & 16bit color.
These all worked I got my 16x9 aspect ratio on the projector.
In addition, when viewing a 4x3 video it did not spill over top and bottom, rather left and right got black bands.
For 1024x768 resolution, the projector was in proper 4x3 mode. 4x3 movie used up the whole screen, and 16x9 powerpoint and movie had black bands on top and bottom and so displayed correctly.

With the HP EliteBook DisplayPort output, I got it to display, but the projector was in permanent 4x3 mode.
1920x1080p 50Hz & 59Hz & 60hz 32bit & 16bit color : right side of screen was cropped off as if the image was internally 16x9 but only the left side was displayed to make displayed illumnicated image 4x3. About 10% of the bottom was cropped off too. Don't know what that's about. And when displaying a 4x3 video, the video was 1st centered in a virtual 16x9 with black bands left and right, then the right and bottom of this now-16x9 image was cropped to display 4x3. So 4x3 image, 4x3 display, but still the image was shifted and cropped.
1920x1080p 59Hz (but not 60Hz nor 50Hz) 32bit (not 16bit) : the picture was jumping up and down just a little bit. Maybe 6 times a second.
1920x1080i 30Hz & 29Hz & 25Hz 32bit & 16bit color : projector was in 4x3 mode and super-stretched. Like stretched 3x. About 70% of the image was cropped off the right, leaving only about 30% of the image (left side) displayed.. Mostly the left-right stretched out, but also about 1.2x stretch top to bottom (cutting off bottom 20%).
720 60Hz & 59Hz & 50Hz 32bit & 16bit color : projector in 4x3 mode, even more cropped than 1080 on bottom and right. About 80% of the right side of the image was cropped off, leaving only 20% of the left.
When at 59Hz picture was jumping up and down at about 6Hz to the eye.
1024x768 60Hz 32bit and 16bit color : projector in 4x3 but not cropped. my 16x9 content displayed properly with black above and below. And showed 4x3 content full screen no cropping. However, picture jumped up and down at a steady 2.6Hz rate.

Adding the VIZIO TV as the 2nd remote display.
1920x1080p 60Hz 59Hz 50Hz 32bit & 16bit color : the VIZIO had constant dropouts.
1920x1080i 30Hz 29Hz 25Hz 32bit & 16bit color : VIZIO perfect even while projector simultaneously borked as described above.
1280x720 60Hz 59Hz 50Hz 32bit 16bit color : VIZIO is perfect
1024x768 60Hz : VIZIO worked as expected.

Hoooking the HP EliteBook DisplayPort directly thru DisplayPort-HDMI adapter, then HDMI-DVI-D cable adapter to the Sony projector produced these results:
I was not offered any 1080x by Windows 7.
Highest resolution again was that weird 1280x1024 aspect ratio 1.25. which I didnt try.
1280x720 60Hz 32bit & 16bit color - perfect on the projector.
1024x768 60Hz 32bit & 16bit color - perfect, meaning 16x9 content displayed with black bands top and bottom, and 4x3 content displayed full screen.

So clearly, things are working direct PC-Projector, but with the Tripp Lite extender in the chain, it's not working.
In fairness, the Tripp Lite extender works very well with the VISIO TV.

I called Tripp Lite tech support. When he heard about the HDMI-DVI cables he stopped debugging and, only a little reluctantly, said I should return the devices.
In truth, it seemed he was looking for an excuse to blame the problem on, rather than fixing it.

So, I am looking for a new setup. I'm considering this:

A-Neuvideo 1x4 HDMI Splitter and Extender over Cat5e/6 System B&H # ANANI0104POE MFR # ANI-0104POE 
bhphotovideo product id 1301237
Includes 4x remotes. Sadly, I only need 2.
$399
Anyone have any experience with this unit?


----------



## Ward216

Well, I can tell you four things after 20 years of extender circuit design & mfg; 10 using HDMI: 
1) God does not like any extender products in his house. Doesn't matter if it was built in 1716 or 2016. There is a much higher failure rate in houses of worship than even heavy industrial.
2) Stranded CAT cable over 100 feet is usually problematic for digital video due to higher capacitance.
3) Earth grounding is EXTREMELY important. Two prong power cords don't offer a reliable ground point and rely on connected equipment to provide this (ie: PC, display, etc). When you're using differential signaling to transmit from A to B all devices must have a solid reference for zero/ground.
4) Outside CAT cable runs will fail, usually sooner than later.
--My only other advice is order from companies that have a good return policy. As you've noticed you may have to test out more than a few different models.
-Regards


----------



## Montgomery Minds

*so what do I do*



Ward216 said:


> Well, I can tell you four things after 20 years of extender circuit design & mfg; 10 using HDMI:
> 1) God does not like any extender products in his house. Doesn't matter if it was built in 1716 or 2016. There is a much higher failure rate in houses of worship than even heavy industrial.
> 2) Stranded CAT cable over 100 feet is usually problematic for digital video due to higher capacitance.
> 3) Earth grounding is EXTREMELY important. Two prong power cords don't offer a reliable ground point and rely on connected equipment to provide this (ie: PC, display, etc). When you're using differential signaling to transmit from A to B all devices must have a solid reference for zero/ground.
> 4) Outside CAT cable runs will fail, usually sooner than later.--My only other advice is order from companies that have a good return policy. As you've noticed you may have to test out more than a few different models.
> -Regards


Thanks for the response?

1) So if Cat5/Cat6 Ethernet extenders, won't work, what then? HDMI repeaters?

2) Yeah, I worried about that. I've been testing using the 75 feet cable to eliminate that complication. I used the 150 feet on the VIZIO in my post above, and it worked fine. I will consider returning my 150 foot stranded and getting a solid.

3) These Tripp Lites only have 2-prong, no ground. I'll see that the next one does.

By the way, some of these use Power over Ethernet to power the remote receiver. Would that have a ground problem? Certainly power will have shifted at the end of the Ethernet cable, converted to HDMI/DVI and going into a wall-grounded projector. Sounds troublesome.

4) for me, it's all inside. Whew.

As for me responding to my own post. About my suggestion "A-Neuvideo 1x4 HDMI Splitter and Extender over Cat5e/6 System B&H # ANANI0104POE MFR # ANI-0104POE"

couple things: They only claim 164 feet. My run is like 125 feed and I currently have a 150 foot cable. Not sure I want to be that close to max spec.

Only 8bit color per channel. That's 24bit? My laptops seems to want to do 32bit color. What is that? 10.6667 bits per channel? How will your generic laptop respond to this ANeuvideo asking for 24 bits?

This one does do the PoE and so do I need to be worried about ground? Receivers do not have local power.

Also, I have been thinking that getting a splitter-to-cat5/cat6 in one unit is ideal.

But now I'm thinking maybe getting a good HDMI splitter with HDMI outputs, and a good HDMI-cat5/6-HDMI single channel solution might be better. Even tho it's two components.


----------



## Joe Fernand

Have a look at our HD DSX and Pro DSX 'HD over LAN' solutions - these are ideal for your type of installation and can be easily added to over time as you require additional Source or Display devices.

The HD over LAN solutions are far more robust/stable than cascading splitters and extenders.

Joe


----------



## Montgomery Minds

Thanks Joe for the reply. I've asked Octava for a quote.

Continuing my thought of separating the splitter and the Cat5/Cat6 extender, I found these on B&H Photo Video. They're popular and have good reviews.

KanexPro 1x4 HDMI Splitter B&H #KASPHD1X44K • MFR #SP-HD1X44K 
$67.26

and into 2 of :

KanexPro HDMI Extender over CAT5e/6 (165') B&H #KAHDEXT50M • MFR #HDEXT50M 
2 at $79.80 each
Total: $159.60

Or maybe these are better (but much more expensive):

KanexPro HDBaseT HDMI Extender B&H #KAEXTHD100HT • MFR #EXT-HD100MHBT 
2 at $256.99 each
Total: $513.98

Kanex seems to have a good rep in these forums from my search.

Might still need a VGA->HDMI or DisplayPort->HDMI adapter before the splitter (for some laptops), and a HDMI->DVI-D after the extender receiver into the projector. That complicates things.

Unfortunately none of the above boxes are grounded. I could wrap a wire around the box and stick it into the ground pin of an outlet, to ground it myself, if I had to. A little hokey, tho.


----------



## Ward216

Montgomery Minds said:


> Unfortunately none of the above boxes are grounded. I could wrap a wire around the box and stick it into the ground pin of an outlet, to ground it myself, if I had to. A little hokey, tho.


OMG! dont do that! suitable ground points can come from connected equip too. if the source has a ground plug - that is almost always connected to chassis ground (Dell, I'm lookin at you!). Perhaps the display has a 3 prong plug, that will suffice. If needed, you can use a grounding wire with two ring connectors. One attaches to the extender's case, the other end you can attach to the center retaining screw on the cover of a duplex outlet.


----------



## jenny741

*cat 5 switcher not working on new tv*

I bought an RV that had a connexx switcher - r014-mtx-c5e-404 has four cat5e/6 outputs. everything was working with a furrion FEHS39N8A inside and outside and with a samsung UN24H4500 all worked.

Then I got a new samung to replace the furrion inside it is a un40nu7100fxza 40 inch and the same cat5e to HDMI plug does'nt work on the new samsung -I've tried a different ethernet cable - no luck. then I tried an hdmi switcher on the one line but it does't recognize it either. I tried the same connecter on the outside tv and it works fine. The furrion is 1.4 hdmi and the little hdmi switcher may be too.

Samsung response was we have done no testing with that matrix switcher try a different connector. The new samsung works fine if you by pass the switcher. Looked around town no stores carry ethernet to hdmi connectors. I don't know why they used a ethernet switcher and not an hdmi switcher it is 25 feet to the back of the couch??


----------



## smoothtlk

I assume that your Cat5e/6 cable is not being used as ethernet, but as HDBaseT to distribute the video.
I haven't looked at the model numbers you mention.


----------



## jenny741

smoothtlk said:


> I assume that your Cat5e/6 cable is not being used as ethernet, but as HDBaseT to distribute the video.
> I haven't looked at the model numbers you mention.


No ethernet other than for video to the TV's -


----------



## fadynaime

Hi Folks, 
Just wanted to see what is the latest on this thread regarding devices and recommendations, since some of the recommendations are from back in 2017. Also any of these solutions that can also handle surround sound distribution for movies.

thank you


----------



## Ward216

fadynaime said:


> Hi Folks,
> ...Also any of these solutions that can also handle surround sound distribution for movies.
> 
> thank you


Hi, while I don't have any recommendations for you; I can say that even the cheapest extenders I've tested support surround sound formats. My other advice is to buy from somewhere you can return the product, and of course keep all packaging materials in case you do need to return it.


----------



## fadynaime

Ward216 said:


> Hi, while I don't have any recommendations for you; I can say that even the cheapest extenders I've tested support surround sound formats. My other advice is to buy from somewhere you can return the product, and of course keep all packaging materials in case you do need to return it.


thanks ward. maybe I'm missing something, if I'm sending video over IP. the devices linked here seem to output HDMI and may include 2 channels of audio. are there devices which output 6 channels of audio (FL,FR,C,RL,RR,B) or its all in the same HDMI, it just needs to be plugged into the right device? what would that device be.


----------



## Ward216

fadynaime said:


> thanks ward. maybe I'm missing something, if I'm sending video over IP. the devices linked here seem to output HDMI and may include 2 channels of audio. are there devices which output 6 channels of audio (FL,FR,C,RL,RR,B) or its all in the same HDMI, it just needs to be plugged into the right device? what would that device be.


I think it would be a lot easier if you listed what gear you have and what you want to end up accomplishing. No offense, but your questions are confusing w/o any context. thanks


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## fadynaime

Ward216 said:


> I think it would be a lot easier if you listed what gear you have and what you want to end up accomplishing. No offense, but your questions are confusing w/o any context. thanks


appreciate the feedback ward.

I currently don't have any AV distribution, I'm still looking at best options. I'm just trying to understand, what is the latest in this space recommended. My goal would be to centralize, cable boxes for each room, appletv, bluerays, PS4 and provide distribution throughout the house, for a select 1 or 2 rooms provide full surround sound. Ideally I can even use it for PS4 and control with smart home hubs/devices like smartthings and/or alexa. I've started a separate thread on these details.

I was just hoping on this one to get an idea about the hardware being described and what is the latest which this forum has reviewed/used and recommends


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## Ward216

Here's my recomendations:

1) install catt 6a cabling and cat 6a patch panels/ports.
2) buy a cheap HDMI extender from somewhere that has a generous return poilicy. If it doesn't work come here for assistance. Be prepared to eschange it for another make or model that may work.
Without any idea what you plan to connect (PC, consumer electronics, 1080p, 4K/30, distance, data throughput, IR return data, etc). My best advice would be to avoid a situation where you might need one of these, wifi and streaming video are way more reliable. Note, this tech doesn't change rapidly. There are only a few mfg's that even make the chipsets used. Any item that worked great in 2017 is probably still pretty great.


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## fadynaime

Ward216 said:


> Here's my recomendations:
> 
> 1) install catt 6a cabling and cat 6a patch panels/ports.
> 2) buy a cheap HDMI extender from somewhere that has a generous return poilicy. If it doesn't work come here for assistance. Be prepared to eschange it for another make or model that may work.
> Without any idea what you plan to connect (PC, consumer electronics, 1080p, 4K/30, distance, data throughput, IR return data, etc). My best advice would be to avoid a situation where you might need one of these, wifi and streaming video are way more reliable. Note, this tech doesn't change rapidly. There are only a few mfg's that even make the chipsets used. Any item that worked great in 2017 is probably still pretty great.


thanks appreciate the advice


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## Joe Fernand

HDMI over CAT, HDMI over HDBT and HDMI over IP have all 'moved on' since 2017 - though the demands of 4K UHD is such that all options now require some form of 'compression' to cater for the full bandwidth of 4K UHD with HDR, DV, Atmos etc

The reduction in cost of Streaming devices, the move to multi-streaming platforms on TV's and the move to BT control vs. IR for many devices has had a big impact on the 'Distributed Home' market which has resulted in far fewer options for the Distribution side and generally many of the lower cost options dropping out of an increasingly complicated market to address.

Distributing signals when you have differing capabilities in your Zones makes things doubly tricky.

I would start with a fresh sheet of paper, forgot about distribution for now (you may come back to it) and itemise out what you want to do in each Zone, the capabilities of each Zone, who will utilise each Zone and then weigh up Centralised vs Distributed Sources.

Joe


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## barto78

My home was built 4 years ago and my low voltage contractor used a HDMI cable which is the old standard (i think HDCP 1.3). However, i recently purchased a 4k/HDR TV and it is my understanding the old cable won't work and i need a 2.2 HDMI cable. The problem is my A/V set up has a brick wall and media closet and the old HDMI Cable was stapled to the studs when it was installed prior to the sheet rock being finished. As a result, i can't simply pull the new HDMI cable through the wall to my receiver and TV, even though the run is only about 10-15 feet. from the back of the TV to the media closet.


I'm going to have a 4k Apple TV, Xbox 1 X and Direct TV 4k receiver hooked up directly to a SonySTRDN1080 Receiver and connect it to a Samsung QLED TV FWIW.



My low voltage contractor said he can use one of the 2 Cat 5 cables he ran to the back of the TV and use what is called a HDMI Balun to somehow convert the Cat 5 cable and allow the data to flow to the A/V receiver.



Has anyone used this type of set up at their homes or are you familiar with this type of setup working?


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## MRG1

A minor footnote to this thread.



audiodane said:


> make sure you have a good return policy, covering even if you simply and SUBJECTIVELY do not like it.


I recently returned a couple electronic items, including a HDMI-to-VGA adaptor, that I hoped to use to feed an old Video projector, to a Walmart store, because I accidently bought the wrong items. (In the case of the cable, it lacked an audio output. It also didn't support conversion of 1080p resolution video to the 1024*768 mode the projector wanted, though it worked at lower resolutions.) I had cut the shrink wrap packaging open to try the cable, so I wasn't sure they would accept it. They did. They didn't ask for my reason, or whether the items worked. There was no restocking fee.

They seem to have a pretty good return policy. With a receipt, within the return period, you can freely return most things.

I haven't tried this on special orders. But that website says "Return items by mail or in store... Ship it back for free. It's as easy as logging in to your account & printing a return label."

*However*, it also says the same policy does not apply to Walmart Marketplace (items not sold and shipped by Walmart.com), so you might avoid those things, if you may need to return them:

https://help.walmart.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3039/kw/3039

Of course you may have to pay a little more than if you buy things through the cheapest eBay or Amazon marketplace merchant, and Walmart doesn't carry everything, not even on special order. But they do have have a few extenders:

https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=hdmi extender&cat_id=1231920&typeahead=hdmi extender

(Note that some of them ARE from other other merchants, and would not carry the good return policy.)

P.S. My opinion: It's one thing to return something because it's no good, or doesn't work they way you hoped. But taking unfair advantage of such a policy in other ways could mess things up for the rest of us. So I suggest you don't over-use it.


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## Al_Pacino

My opinion:


Distributed video contractors have traditionally relied on expensive setups to get video into areas with minimal obtrusiveness. 

Today, we have small streaming devices that can attach to each television, with a remote available on every smart phone. 4k+ can be had for $70, and no recurring charges to maintain it. 

When 8k comes around, each TV and projector and streamer can be upgraded as desired. 


The only problem is the audio receiver, and I think this can easily be addressed through HDMI over Cat5e. Unfortunately, it seems like projector manufacturers do not care about this as most projectors do not include ARC/eARC support.


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## phtli

barto78 said:


> My home was built 4 years ago and my low voltage contractor used a HDMI cable which is the old standard (i think HDCP 1.3). However, i recently purchased a 4k/HDR TV and it is my understanding the old cable won't work and i need a 2.2 HDMI cable. The problem is my A/V set up has a brick wall and media closet and the old HDMI Cable was stapled to the studs when it was installed prior to the sheet rock being finished. As a result, i can't simply pull the new HDMI cable through the wall to my receiver and TV, even though the run is only about 10-15 feet. from the back of the TV to the media closet.
> 
> 
> I'm going to have a 4k Apple TV, Xbox 1 X and Direct TV 4k receiver hooked up directly to a SonySTRDN1080 Receiver and connect it to a Samsung QLED TV FWIW.
> 
> 
> 
> My low voltage contractor said he can use one of the 2 Cat 5 cables he ran to the back of the TV and use what is called a HDMI Balun to somehow convert the Cat 5 cable and allow the data to flow to the A/V receiver.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone used this type of set up at their homes or are you familiar with this type of setup working?


Yes, its pretty much the standard in most new installations I see in larger homes


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## Joe Fernand

HDMI cables are not Version compliant - there is a separate set of Certified standards (Standard, High Speed, Premium High Speed and the New Ultra High Speed) which apply to cables.

Until you plug in the installed cable you have no way of knowing of it will work (or not) with 4K UHD signals - 25' is where things get very difficult for a copper HDMI cable with 4K.

HDMI over CAT Extenders are a great option (if you have a spare CAT5, or preferably CAT6, cable you can use) Extenders based on HDBT are the best option, ensure you look for any Features you require (HDCP 2.2, ARC, eARC, HDR, Dynamic HDR...) the one drawback being they all have to use some form of compression for the highest bandwidth 4K signals (the manufacturers all claim they are 'visually lossless'.

Joe


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## bills4pmc

Joe Fernand said:


> HDMI cables are not Version compliant - there is a separate set of Certified standards (Standard, High Speed, Premium High Speed and the New Ultra High Speed) which apply to cables.
> 
> Until you plug in the installed cable you have no way of knowing of it will work (or not) with 4K UHD signals - 25' is where things get very difficult for a copper HDMI cable with 4K.
> 
> HDMI over CAT Extenders are a great option (if you have a spare CAT5, or preferably CAT6, cable you can use) Extenders based on HDBT are the best option, ensure you look for any Features you require (HDCP 2.2, ARC, eARC, HDR, Dynamic HDR...) the one drawback being they all have to use some form of compression for the highest bandwidth 4K signals (the manufacturers all claim they are 'visually lossless'.
> 
> Joe


Hi.
My situation: after 15 yrs, swapping out old, pre-HDMI plasma and AVR. Got a very good deal on LG OLED 65B8, and a Denon AVR-x4400H receiver. The TV is wall-mounted about 15 feet away from a gear cabinet. The old TV was connected component cables. Unfortunately, the cables do not seem to have been run through a conduit, I cannot pull new cable, and the crawlspace under the room is not accessible (I went under the house; no good).
On the upside, the original contractor did run Cat5e between the two, so it looks like I can make use of that.

SO, I'm looking for connection solutions. It's been suggested I use an HDMI extender over Cat5e. Ideally I would like to use the LG for apps like Netflix, etc, so (I believe; I'm learning) I will have to be able to use ARC to drive audio from the LG back to the Denon.
Can anyone recommend a good 18GPS, ARC-able extender for this purpose? I am also open to any other suggested solutions.


Thanks!
Paul


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## Joe Fernand

ARC - if possible can you 'test' how reliable ARC and its buddy CEC are in your system using a conventional HDMI cable before you look for an ARC enabled HDMI Extender solution.

Assuming ARC works then yes there are ARC enabled HDMI Extender options - though they are not cheap.

Joe


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## bills4pmc

Joe Fernand said:


> ARC - if possible can you 'test' how reliable ARC and its buddy CEC are in your system using a conventional HDMI cable before you look for an ARC enabled HDMI Extender solution.
> 
> Assuming ARC works then yes there are ARC enabled HDMI Extender options - though they are not cheap.
> 
> Joe


Joe, as a temp solution, I have a long HDMI cable snaking through the room, directly connecting the TV to the AVR, and ARC works very well. I have not noticed and dropouts, sync or other problems at all so far.


Paul


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## Joe Fernand

Positive start - now to look at Extender options which support ARC, I would ensure you look for local support/a simple returns option if you were to hit any issues.

Joe


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## ks_man

I'm also looking for an HDMI over Cat6 solution that supports ARC. A number advertise it but it seems to be hit or miss if they actually deliver.

I'm eyeing this one on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Extender-HDBaseT-Bidirectional/dp/B07HH1212W

I don't want to try it until I get everything else in place so I can return in the 30 day window. I'm a little skeptical as on another thread someone said that due to bandwidth limits of Cat6 you can only pass HDR or ARC, not both. Not sure if that is true or not. This one advertises both (HDR10). 

My cat6 run is about 50-75 feet and I don't really have any good way of testing it with HDMI. I never knew replacing a TV was so much work...


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## Rich428

ks_man said:


> I'm also looking for an HDMI over Cat6 solution that supports ARC. A number advertise it but it seems to be hit or miss if they actually deliver.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm eyeing this one on Amazon:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/AV-Access-Extender-HDBaseT-Bidirectional/dp/B07HH1212W
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to try it until I get everything else in place so I can return in the 30 day window. I'm a little skeptical as on another thread someone said that due to bandwidth limits of Cat6 you can only pass HDR or ARC, not both. Not sure if that is true or not. This one advertises both (HDR10).
> 
> 
> 
> My cat6 run is about 50-75 feet and I don't really have any good way of testing it with HDMI. I never knew replacing a TV was so much work...




I highly recommend the AVPro Edge HDBaseT Extenders. The last I used them (November) the best model supported 18gps and ARC over simple CAT5e. (Though definitely use Cat6a for any future upgrades). Very reliable product. Close to plug and play ease. A little on the expensive side, but well worth it. Don’t think the chipset can support 48gps, so they probably will need to be replaced when 8k becomes relevant, but that’s a few years away. 4k isn’t even broadcast yet (except maybe by sine satellite service on select sports). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bills4pmc

Joe Fernand said:


> Positive start - now to look at Extender options which support ARC, I would ensure you look for local support/a simple returns option if you were to hit any issues.
> 
> Joe


Joe,

For my situation, would you recommend the AV Pro edge AC-EX70-444-Kit? It's certainly not cheap. Is it overkill? 

My setup: DirecTV to Denon AVR-x4400H to LG OLED65B8PUA. Audio is a 5.1 system. Not going to expand; smallish room.

Again, I'm looking for a HDMI over Cat5e solution to send a signal from a gear cabinet about 15 feet away to the wall-mounted TV. The original installer did not place a conduit and I can't access under the house to pull new HDMI or other cable. He did run Cat5e site to site; that's the only reason I'm mapping out this solution. 

If I understand correctly (dubious), I need to run this: DirecTV box --> Denon --> HDMI/Cat5e Extender --> Cat5e/HDMI Receiver --> LG TV. I was also hoping for a setup that can handle ARC, so that I can run apps (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) from the LG and send that audio back to the Denon. 

Do you have any thoughts about this plan and/or specific gear suggestions?

Thanks again,
Paul


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## FlyingDiver

bills4pmc said:


> If I understand correctly (dubious), I need to run this: DirecTV box --> Denon --> HDMI/Cat5e Extender --> Cat5e/HDMI Receiver --> LG TV. I was also hoping for a setup that can handle ARC, so that I can run apps (Netflix, Hulu, etc.) from the LG and send that audio back to the Denon.


If the HDBaseT extension solution with ARC support is more than $100 or so more than the non-ARC one, I would forget about ARC and just add a streamer box (Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, etc) directly to the Denon. The apps on the LG TV aren't that great, so going with a more mainstream streaming solution is an easy fix to the problem.


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## bills4pmc

FlyingDiver said:


> If the HDBaseT extension solution with ARC support is more than $100 or so more than the non-ARC one, I would forget about ARC and just add a streamer box (Roku, AppleTV, FireTV, etc) directly to the Denon. The apps on the LG TV aren't that great, so going with a more mainstream streaming solution is an easy fix to the problem.


FlyingDiver,


Thanks for the suggestion. Forgive my ignorance -- 15 years since I've looked at any of this stuff: I assume the streamer box would connect to my AVR in one of the HDMI inputs, correct?


Paul


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## FlyingDiver

bills4pmc said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Forgive my ignorance -- 15 years since I've looked at any of this stuff: I assume the streamer box would connect to my AVR in one of the HDMI inputs, correct?


Yes. On my Denon, one of the HDMI In ports is labeled Media Player. That's a good one to use.


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## Joe Fernand

As per Paul above I would consider a 'streamer' connected to the AVR as an option to using the TV streaming Apps - my own TV is only ever used as a 'Display' (I only send images to it) and never as a source device, my Satellite box, Streamer, Disc player etc all connect to the AVR.

Joe


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## Rich428

So what was the final verdict? 

I can attest that the AVPro Edge HDBaseT extenders are expensive, but worth every cent. They just “work” and work well. They also extend your ability to control and add additional Ethernet ports in case you’d add WAP at that location, etc. I’m sure a lot of integrators would agree. Stay away from the non-branded extenders and you’ll get everything and more with AVPro Edge equip that you’d expect from better brands like Atlona, Gefen, etc., but probably even better. 

As for ARC, the AVPro Edge line has it, but I’ve always said the best setups have independent sources for apps, versus broadcast TV, versus physical media (BluRay), etc. in each of my zones, I have 4 possible sources for Netflix for instance. From the TV Apps, the TiVo Apps, and BluRay Apps and finally, from my Roku Ultra. I’ve learned that you use each device solely for its primary purpose. Therefore, I don’t need ARC, most integrators would agree. I chose Roku for my Apps because it integrates well with C4. You can chose your media player based upon your needs. There are a lot of comparison charts you can google. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jared Wollan

This is amazing info. I'm currently working on a project for a long run of hdmi and I'll have to try this out.


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## saturnontv

I am trying to run HDMI connected to my PC over cat6 to my TV in my living room, and am having some issues. I originally tried a fiber optic HDMI cable, but it did not work because I could not power the cable when they reached the wall panel (which had a HDMI coupler). So I first tried this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RC4JTS4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Which worked (sortof), it kept disconnecting randomly, and almost seemed like a power issue, because only one side is directly connected to power, and the other was POC, so I bought this one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZZXHV1S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Which has a power jack on each unit, so I could try connecting both to power. I actually could not even get this one working, and it just repeatedly flashed my PC screen and never actually showed anything on my television. I am trying to transfer 1440p but would like up to 4k for future proofing.

The direct HDMI was much better, but unfortunately I need abou at 75ft of cable, and the fiber optic was not working with the couplers, because they were not getting power when connecting back to copper, and then the TV. I know brushplates are an option, but I didn't like having essentially a hole in the wall.


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## Rich428

saturnontv said:


> I am trying to run HDMI connected to my PC over cat6 to my TV in my living room, and am having some issues. I originally tried a fiber optic HDMI cable, but it did not work because I could not power the cable when they reached the wall panel (which had a HDMI coupler). So I first tried this one:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RC4JTS4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Which worked (sortof), it kept disconnecting randomly, and almost seemed like a power issue, because only one side is directly connected to power, and the other was POC, so I bought this one:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06ZZXHV1S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Which has a power jack on each unit, so I could try connecting both to power. I actually could not even get this one working, and it just repeatedly flashed my PC screen and never actually showed anything on my television. I am trying to transfer 1440p but would like up to 4k for future proofing.
> 
> 
> 
> The direct HDMI was much better, but unfortunately I need abou at 75ft of cable, and the fiber optic was not working with the couplers, because they were not getting power when connecting back to copper, and then the TV. I know brushplates are an option, but I didn't like having essentially a hole in the wall.




Do you know the specs of your HDMI ports on the computer and the display? 1.4/2.0 HDCP 2.2? Sounds like incompatibility or EDID issues. 

I’d get a AVPro Edge HDBaseT balun with PoE and power one end (either) and it will work. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## saturnontv

Rich428 said:


> Do you know the specs of your HDMI ports on the computer and the display? 1.4/2.0 HDCP 2.2? Sounds like incompatibility or EDID issues.



TV is LG B8, which has, HDCP 2.2, PC has HDMI 2.0b.

The AV Edge seems quite expensive and is out of my budget really. Is there a cheaper alternative, for instance, would something like this work?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073QL6YT3/ref=emc_b_5_t

EDIT: I turned off HDR on the TV and I got a signal with the monoprice one, but sadly, it doesn't work as the HDR mode enables 60hz on the TV, otherwise it is stuck at 30hz. I am reading a lot of reviews about these types of things overheating. Is there ways to prevent that?


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## devdean13

I have a home theater room that myself and a friend put together. I did this about a year ago and had been running everything with a long HDMI cable going through my attic and down the wall to a plate that connected to my receiver. It worked fine, but I wasn't ever getting true 4k quality and none of my devices would work in 4k, which was a waste of what my 4k projector was capable of. I recently decided to install a CableMatters audio/video extender balun via Cat6 to take the place of the long HDMI cable. 

Ever since I made this switch I have had problems with picture dropouts. I still hear audio, but at random times throughout my viewing, my projector will say there is no signal for about 5-10 seconds, and then reconnect to the signal. I have done all sorts of troubleshooting. I have used different Cat6/cat5 cables, I have changed the HDMI Cables, I have run the cat 6 cable in the attic along the top so that it is not laying on the ground next to potential electric cables. I have tried using ground lifts for the plugs, I have changed the location of the extender receiver and transmitter, all have been dead ends and I still get the drop outs. Here is what I have found so far:

- When bypassing the receiver and plugging my firestick directly into the extender transmitter, I am yet to get a picture dropout. Made me think it might be the AV receiver, however...
- When I run a long HDMI cable from the projector to the AV receiver, I do not get dropouts, which leads me to believe it is NOT indeed the AV receiver. Which made me believe that it is the extenders. It's kind of a circle that leads me back to each problem. I have yet to discover the wrinkle. 

Has anyone dealt with this problem or known of anyone else who has been able to solve this? It's a first world pain, but it has been frustrating and short of hiring an AV company, I'm not sure how to fix. Any help would be fantastic.


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## Joe Fernand

HDMI Extender - which model do you have? Keep in mind they all employ some form of compression with 4K UHD signals.

Picture Drop Out - can you attribute/link it to a timer, thermostat, certain time of the day, after so many mins of operation?

HDMI cable (long) - how long and have you considered a Hybrid Fibre HDMI cable (we use RuiPro4K) they can go 'long', do not employ compression and can work when Extenders are having issues.

Joe


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## Otto Pylot

+1. In addition to Joe's suggestion, depending on the length of your cable run, and if you go with the hybrid fiber option, you might want to consider a voltage inserter. There are quite a few reported issues with projectors and active cables. The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. This is especially true for 4k HDR.


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## Sandrew

I am having signal quality issues with HDMI over Cat5e. I'm wondering if my issue is caused by the "overdrive" caveat discussed in the original post. 



> some extenders are expecting to run over a longer distance and sometimes "overdrive" the cable on the signal, meaning that if you use a short patch cable, it may overdrive the receiver and not work, where a longer cable would.


My question: What issues should I expect if I am experiencing the overdrive issue due to the Cat5e cable being too short? No signal detected? Signal detected, but nothing displayed? Signal detected and displayed, but with artifacts? Something else?

My setup: The source device and display work over a direct HDMI connection. The issue arises when I use the Monoprice Blackbird 4K HDMI Extender (p/n 24281). I have connected the source device via HDMI to the transmitter module of the extender and the receiver module via HDMI to the display. The transmitter is connected to the receiver over a short (<10ft) length of known-good Cat5e cable. The LED indicators on the transmitter and receiver show that both modules have power and that a signal is detected between them. Yet I am experiencing constant signal issues -- poor signal quality and artifacts. I don't have a known-good ~50-ft Cat5e cable to troubleshoot, but I can make or order one if needed.

Thanks!


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## Ward216

Sandrew said:


> ...I am having signal quality issues with HDMI over Cat5e. I'm wondering if my issue is caused by the "overdrive" caveat discussed in the original post...


What resolution are you attempting to send and what's the bandwidth rating for your CAT5e cable? This may just be a throughput issue. Perhaps try sending 1080i or 1080p if you are normally attempting 4k.


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## Sandrew

Ward216 said:


> What resolution are you attempting to send and what's the bandwidth rating for your CAT5e cable? This may just be a throughput issue. Perhaps try sending 1080i or 1080p if you are normally attempting 4k.


Thanks for the reply. The source resolution was 1080p.

I've since partially resolved the issue, which I believe was caused by either a too-short or faulty Cat5e cable. I swapped it out for a longer (10' instead of 5') Cat5e cable, which greatly alleviated but did not fully resolve the issue. I still have some artifacts, but they are much reduced. I will try again with a much longer (~30') Cat5e cable once I get a tester to confirm the final cable run (which is already installed through a wall but is as yet untested) is undamaged.

For the curious, assuming this was in fact the overdrive issue, the symptom was that the video output suffered from constant artifacts, similar to extreme "tearing" on a non-Vsync'd monitor.


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## Ward216

You shouldn't be using Cat 5e for this, CAT6a rated at 500Mhz is your ideal

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## Sandrew

Ward216 said:


> You shouldn't be using Cat 5e for this, CAT6a rated at 500Mhz is your ideal
> 
> Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


The use case for the balun in my case is to take advantage of an existing Cat5e cable run behind the drywall from the source to the display. If I were to tear up the drywall to make new runs, I would gladly install both Cat6a and HDMI. But I'm trying to avoid that expense if I can. The balun is rated for 4k 30hz over Cat5e. Time will tell if it works.


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## Ward216

Sandrew said:


> The use case for the balun in my case is to take advantage of an existing Cat5e cable run behind the drywall from the source to the display. If I were to tear up the drywall to make new runs, I would gladly install both Cat6a and HDMI. But I'm trying to avoid that expense if I can. The balun is rated for 4k 30hz over Cat5e. Time will tell if it works.


Oh, well that does complicate things. I have 22 yrs in extender mfg and repair and I've never had the occasion to try this but you could extend your Cat5e cable with a female-female Cat5e adapter and add another piece of Cat5e cable to increase your overall length. Sorry, but I don't have much experience with the Monoprice extender products; we design in-house and source our own imported models. To answer your orig question regarding "what does hi-gain/eq look like on a short cable...", the answer is all the above you mentioned; but then so does a sharp bend in the cable or a bad rj-45 jack which will cause signal reflections. An HDMI over IP extender would work for you, but the level of video compression may not be acceptible.


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