# East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux



## wkosmann

Ladies and Gentlemen;


Last spring, on about May 8th, I posted the following:



> Quote:
> Mike has already spilled the beans, so I will amplify a little. I feel badly that we were not completely done with installation and setup before the Meet started. That had been the original intent. I would like to make it up to everyone who came, by offering to host another East Coast BlendZilla Meet, in like October, say the 20th/21st. Picture in your mind's eye driving down the driveway with the 20 Norwegian maples in full bloom, a dazzling display of every hue imaginable from red to orange to yellow, on the way to a fully optimized twin Electrohome Extreme BlendZilla setup, projecting (from source to screen) only 1080P/72 native, via either HD DVD or Bluray. Mike standing on the side, beaming at his babies. Ken already having finished his work, able to sit there and simply enjoy the result. Clarence challenging the rig with the nastiest, most difficult to correctly process clips he can find, and the rig properly responding with ease. Mark challenging everything. Cliffy challenging everyone (and playing his favorite scene from Crank). Don's cooking hanging in the cool crisp autumn air.
> 
> 
> The Mars orbiter aeronomy mission proposal I have been working on for more than 2 years is due to NASA on October 19. The 20th seems like a good day to start a party................



Mike Parker/John Barnes/William Kosmann/Don Wallace/Bill Belcher Productions would like to officially announce the

East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux.


The Meet will be on October 20th, Saturday, from about 1:00 PM until Cliffy and Clarence go to bed.







Featured will be a 12 foot wide version of the image that Mike puts out on his lowly lowly 8" Marquee AC. Don has agreed to again provide barbeque (the details of which are his choice) and I will supply Dominion Pale Ale on tap to wash it down. Please post in this thread if you would like to come. The first 15 attendees are:


Mike Parker and Patrice

John Barnes and SO

Don Wallace and his wife whose name I forgot

Bill Belcher and Teresa

William Kosmann and Cheryl

Cliffy

Ashley the dog (who is *not* Cliffy's date)

Clarence

Arli (Bomrat), to keep Cliffy attended

Sokoloff


I will not limit attendance, as I have plenty of room for cars and visitors.


William


PS: I have been paying attention, Cliffy.


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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The Meet will be on October 20th, Saturday, from about 1:00 PM until Cliffy and Clarence go to bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please post in this thread if you would like to come.



Cliff and I always manage to stay up shootin' the chit and watching movies until the sun comes up (literally).


Count me in!


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## Tim in Phoenix

Hehe


William, Mike.....time to remind the side stack guys what they are missing out on......


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## Belcherwm

Sweet! I got a credit in the production! TERESA and I will be there to enjoy and mingle. Let us know what you need.


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## Gino AUS

Wish I could make this one.


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## bomrat

Well i guess i need to go out to this one too.... Can't leave cliffy unattended for long


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11511367
> 
> 
> Cliff and I always manage to stay up shootin' the chit and watching movies until the sun comes up (literally).
> 
> 
> Count me in!



Yep, I've already written off the fact that when I come out, the entire weekend will be filled with very little sleep.










I cant complain though, as spending time with some of my best friends is worth every bit.










Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tim in Phoenix* /forum/post/11511380
> 
> 
> Hehe
> 
> 
> William, Mike.....time to remind the side stack guys what they are missing out on......



Hmmmmm......


Boy how easy we forget.
























Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11511302
> 
> 
> Ladies and Gentlemen;
> 
> 
> Last spring, on about May 8th, I posted the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Parker/John Barnes/William Kosmann/Don Wallace/Bill Belcher Productions would like to officially announce the
> 
> East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux.
> 
> 
> The Meet will be on October 20th, Saturday, from about 1:00 PM until Cliffy and Clarence go to bed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Featured will be a 12 foot wide version of the image that Mike puts out on his lowly lowly 8" Marquee AC. Don has agreed to again provide barbeque (the details of which are his choice) and I will supply Dominion Pale Ale on tap to wash it down. Please post in this thread if you would like to come. The first 13 attendees are:
> 
> 
> Mike Parker and Patrice
> 
> John Barnes and SO
> 
> Don Wallace and his wife whose name I forgot
> 
> Bill Belcher and Teresa
> 
> William Kosmann and Cheryl
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> Ashley the dog (who is *not* Cliffy's date)
> 
> Clarence
> 
> 
> I will not limit attendance, as I have plenty of room for cars and visitors.
> 
> 
> William
> 
> 
> PS: I have been paying attention, Cliffy.



William,


AWESOME!!! I can't wait big dog. This is going to be an event to remember forever.


Please try to set aside some time for me to do some screenshots for your thread that weekend ok? Maybe Friday night?


I am STOKED that you guys are going the stand alone source components vs. HTPC. Simply awesome. What are you planning on using for a scaler? How exactly is your video chain going to be setup?


I know, questions, questions. It's just that I know what the potential is for the DVX and I'm just dying to find out what exactly you guys are planning on doing.


I have no doubt at all what so ever that your setup will be top notch and I cant wait!!!!


Oh yeah, BBQ from the master, lots of booze, and great conversation. That TOPS the list for me. Being with friends!


The one thing that does suck big time though is that little hottie Jess and her kick ass husband not being able to come. Bummer......










Here is to one of the best threads to ever exist on the CRT forum in AVS.










Cliffy


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## overclkr

Some pics from the last meet:



















Gino rocking out on setup:




















A moment to be cast in stone forever in AVS:


Ken, Terry, and Mike Parker in the same room.



















Me being a big mouth instead of standing aside and letting the experts do what they do best:











Cliffy


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## overclkr

The source of our vitamins for the weekend:











The master that makes our vitamins:











Me being a BIG MOUTH once again and as well I truly think that it is MY FAULT that the weekend turned out the way it did last time. I can be a real dumb ass sometimes:











This is going to be a blast! I cant wait.


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## Sokoloff

I missed the first one, but am going to try to make this one. No chance in hell that I'll get Kris to tag along, so just me.


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## wkosmann

Yo Big Dog;


You are always totally welcome at the Kosmann casa.


You had nothing to do with the problems surrounding the first Meet. It was one of those times where everything that absolutely could have gone wrong, did go wrong.


I will totally make time for you Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to take all the screen shots you desire. In fact, I would be most honored if you would assent to be the official Meet photographer/historical chronologer.


The Host


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11523192
> 
> 
> Yo Big Dog;
> 
> 
> You are always totally welcome at the Kosmann casa.
> 
> 
> You had nothing to do with the problems surrounding the first Meet. It was one of those times where everything that absolutely could have gone wrong, did go wrong.
> 
> 
> I willl totally make time for you Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to take all the screen shots you desire. In fact, I would be most honored if you would assent to be the official Meet photographer/historical chronologer.
> 
> 
> The Host



Gladly.










I'm honored.










Cliffy


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## wkosmann

*A Short List of the Improvements to the Blend Rig since the spring Meet:*


new blue CRT installed in right projector

left projector received upgraded:

vertical convergence board

control module

horizontal convergence module

focus module
both projectors received MP modded contrast boards

2 Blue Jeans HDMI to DVI cables installed in the ceiling

2 Moome HDMI HD VIM input boards purchased

1 HD Fury purchased, then modded by MP

Sony 301 Blu-ray Player purchased

Pioneer BDC-2202 Blu-ray drive purchased

HTPC upgraded with:

MP modded MSI 7800 GTX video card

3.2 GHz Intel Dual Core CPU (up from 2.66 GHz.)

HD DVD/Blu-ray compatible version of PowerDVD
reversed blue & red CRTs on the left projector, so CRTs match my signature

purchased two 50-2035-03 VIMs

MP is converting the VIMs into special specials

MP is converting all 6 neckboards into special specials

took both projectors down, then re-installed them on the ceiling

digitally equalized the room using the Lexicon MC12 digital EQ

JBJR upgraded the Xbox 360:

fixed the bad heatsink problem

installed the latest firmware
*Work left to do:*


We are currently at the point where the projectors are settling in.


Next, MP will totally dial in the projectors. This will be the first Mike Parker set up blend in a Home Theater, in the world. Then we can run a series of experiments to determine what really does look best.


For example, we will be able to *see* whether RGBHV or DVI from the BlendZilla to the Marquees looks better. I suspect, but soon will be able to prove, that digital video from the HTPC, thru the Moome DVI/DVI repeater, thru the BlendZilla to the Moome HD VIM input cards will be the best video chain into the projectors. This minimizes the digital to analog video transitions to one: the one that occurs in the Moome HD VIMs.


1080P @ 72 Hz. will be the best source resolution and refresh rate. Currently, only an HTPC can do this. We will be able to test individual sources versus the HTPC, if Mark H. lends us a Radiance scalar to play with.


We also plan to play with the 3 DVX-8022 blendable output resolutions available: 1280 x 1024, 1440 by 1050, and 1600 x 1200 (per projector), to *see* which looks best on the Marquees. The first 2 resolutions can refresh to 72 Hz. 1600 x 1200 only goes up to 60 Hz.


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## wallace1234

Oh baby!! Can't wait!!!


I am looking for the WOW factor!!


wallace


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11524384
> 
> 
> Oh baby!! Can't wait!!!
> 
> 
> I am looking for the WOW factor!!
> 
> 
> wallace




Dude, I can care less about the meet. I just want the *SMOKER!!!!!!!!!*










Just kidding about the first part.

















So tell me, how well are you going to be able to handle me not letting you get any sleep that weekend??????


Cliffy


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## wkosmann

Hey Don;


Cliffy couldn't care less about the Meet, he wants the Meat!!!!!


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## damon

No doubt that the excellent BBQ is a huge selling point.


William,

Do you intend to stay Video Processor-less (other than the 8022) for the long haul?


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## antorsae

Guys... I'd LOVE to be there.










Are you getting frankenyoke mods for the projectors?


One thing I am also finding is that you need very good magnetic alignment on the edges (which are the center of the image) so that color uniformity issues are mitigated. The frankenyokes help getting circled dots at the edges (I never have been able to get circle dots in the edges using the stock Thompsons, just crazy triangles, with get somewhat distorted by astig so at least aspect ratio is OK).


I also recommend you try the latest builds of Media Player Classic using the Haali video renderer. I allows for true 0-255 level output (RGB levels unclipped) and it is not buggy as some VMR9 implementations.


Best - Andres


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## wkosmann

Dear Mark;


I intend to stay video processorless at least until a scalar capable of outputting 1080P @ 72 Hz. makes an appearance. Although I am always willing to be persuaded otherwise, which is why I would like to test a Radiance scalar (even at 1080P @ 60 Hz.) just to see. In keeping with the principle that simpler is better (and its first cousin "minimize thy A to D and D to A transitions"), one would think one would end up with the best video on the screen if one provided digital video from the source, through the HDCP stripper, through the DVX-8022, and into the Marquees. Thus, the only transition would be in the Moome HD VIMs, from digital to analog. The proof is in the seeing. But you can't even see these kinds of differences unless you have a high bandwidth video chain and have absolutely nailed the set up of the Marquees. We are about to complete this essential foundation, then move on to the second order experiments.


Mark, any possibility you might make it up to the Meet? It would be worth your while to come see what we have created. You might also want to talk Terry and Galen into coming up and checking out what us Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Virginia boys have been up to.


Dear Andres;


You have a special invitation to come to the East Coast BlendZilla Meet, Part Deaux, and stay at my house. I will even arrange to have someone come pick you up from the Washington Dulles airport. Thus, your only cost is airfare. Your wife is welcome to come also. October in Virginia is unbelievably gorgeous.


I am in the market for frankenyokes for the Marquees. I doubt that this will be completed before the October Meet. We have noticed some triangularity in the red CRT dots. MP is going to replace the 4 pole magnets with 6 pole magnets, on those CRTs that exhibit triangular dots, in order to eliminate the triangularity.


I will try the latest version of Media Player, although I am using PowerDVD Ultra, with very little problem.


William


PS: Wouldn't it be something if we could arrange a little around-the-world tour in 2008, going from BlendZilla to BlendZilla (and maybe throwing in a stack or two or some non DVX-8022 blends)? Something to strive towards.


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## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11550736
> 
> 
> PS: Wouldn't it be something if we could arrange a little around-the-world tour in 2008, going from BlendZilla to BlendZilla (and maybe throwing in a stack or two or some non DVX-8022 blends)? Something to strive towards.



been there, done that























I was very tempted to come back to the US for this one and Art's, but I need to be smarter with my vacation time.


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## damon

William,


Possible I could make it. The only thing scaring me is Haflich's driving.

Wish MP would pop on & tell us more about what makes his "blend" version of his mods distinctively different from his others.


I know he does not like to do this particular mod, but I think the market is just about tapped at this point.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11552018
> 
> 
> Possible I could make it. The only thing scaring me is Haflich's driving



It's bad, but If you ever get stupid enough to ever ride with him again. make sure you ask him to not try and light that cigar while he drives. That's s bit too much multi-tasking.


It'll freak you out to sit there and watch him struggle to light that cigar while at the same time press the clutch and change from 2nd to 3rd gear going 65 MPH on a winding country road..


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## Art Sonneborn

I will say that Haflich looks like he was born with that cigar though.










Art


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11552018
> 
> 
> Wish MP would pop on & tell us more about what makes his "blend" version of his mods distinctively different from his others.
> 
> 
> I know he does not like to do this particular mod, but I think the market is just about tapped at this point.



When doing two sets of boards for blending, that would be 6 neck boards and two VIMs that I would have to carefully match up.


One of the things I don't always mention is what's involved in taking the boards to a higher bandwidth rating than what they were designed for. In doing that, some of the neck boards that I get in are not good candidates for that level of improvement. So I'll have to either go through each one and swap out components until I can make use of them. Sometimes I've had to replace a board or two. I've even had some boards come to me that were defective, and I'm sure it was known. But rather than bring up an issue, I put them on the bench for repairs. And this is where things become very time consuming. because it's one thing to repair a board, and it's a whole nother story when tweaking a defective board for higher bandwidth.


At times it's very frustrating. I've had three boards in that last month that required about 15 hours of my time to get right. And that's one of the reasons why we've suspended things until I can get some help. I hope to at least get the initial work done by someone else. I know i'll still need to repair some boards first.


So, with a blend set, I'll want to make sure I've carefully match the boards, or at least make sure that each board is well tested to make sure it will be up to the task.


I got this thing down now... no question the boards I've been doing for the past 3 months are top flight. And very well re-worked.


I'm at the Apex of High Performance... me bad..


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11557759
> 
> 
> It's bad, but If you ever get stupid enough to ever ride with him again. make sure you ask him to not try and light that cigar while he drives. That's s bit too much multi-tasking.
> 
> 
> It'll freak you out to sit there and watch him struggle to light that cigar while at the same time press the clutch and change from 2nd to 3rd gear going 65 MPH on a winding country road..



LOL. That's too damn funny. I actually think I'm going to have to experience that some time.


Ask Clarence the next time that you see him about the time Ken passed them on the way to William's place.










Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11557847
> 
> 
> I will say that Haflich looks like he was born with that cigar though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



He cracks me up.


So tell me big dog, are you watching????? Are you liking?????










Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11557915
> 
> 
> When doing two sets of boards for blending, that would be 6 neck boards and two VIMs that I would have to carefully match up.
> 
> 
> One of the things I don't always mention is what's involved in taking the boards to a higher bandwidth rating than what they were designed for. In doing that, some of the neck boards that I get in are not good candidates for that level of improvement. So I'll have to either go through each one and swap out components until I can make use of them. Sometimes I've had to replace a board or two. I've even had some boards come to me that were defective, and I'm sure it was known. But rather than bring up an issue, I put them on the bench for repairs. And this is where things become very time consuming. because it's one thing to repair a board, and it's a whole nother story when tweaking a defective board for higher bandwidth.
> 
> 
> At times it's very frustrating. I've had three boards in that last month that required about 15 hours of my time to get right. And that's one of the reasons why we've suspended things until I can get some help. I hope to at least get the initial work done by someone else. I know i'll still need to repair some boards first.
> 
> 
> So, with a blend set, I'll want to make sure I've carefully match the boards, or at least make sure that each board is well tested to make sure it will be up to the task.
> 
> 
> I got this thing down now... no question the boards I've been doing for the past 3 months are top flight. And very well re-worked.
> 
> 
> I'm at the Apex of High Performance... me bad..


































Cant wait to see it.










Cliffy


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## damon

MP,


We will try & do you proud here in Dallas. I think I am 3-4 weeks away from install.


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11559486
> 
> 
> MP,
> 
> 
> We will try & do you proud here in Dallas. I think I am 3-4 weeks away from install.



Ah yes, the other Zilla convert.










Are you going to have a thread with your progress?


Cliff


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## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11557847
> 
> 
> I will say that Haflich looks like he was born with that cigar though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Art,

Something like this??


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11563273
> 
> 
> Art,
> 
> Something like this??



Yea, a lot like that except at CEDIA last year he could carry on a perfectly intelligible conversation with a few drinks in him and the cigar in his mouth the whole time.I thought that this was a lost art.










Art


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11559486
> 
> 
> MP,
> 
> 
> We will try & do you proud here in Dallas. I think I am 3-4 weeks away from install.



Thanks Mark. I would like to also be involved in this, though I'll not be able to be present.


I'm getting to point that I've reached my best with these mods. Technically, I've accomplished everything I had hoped to achieve. I've done that and more. It's now time to wrap the mods in a nice package and pass them on to Tim. I have a few other projects to now focus on. And being able to have my work in several of the best setups on the planet, is a real feather in my cap..










I'm really enjoying the whole process of you guys bringing this all together. I know as you know, that you'll be getting something really special once all things are finished.


I'm on the phone with Terry at least once a week. So your setup will not go on without my Involvement - that's very important to me..


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## JBJR

Wow, back from vacation! Guess it's time to get back to work!!!

William, I'll get to that xbox and get it to Mike, he should be up up my way this week.


Looks like we are going to have some fun, can't wait!



John


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBJR* /forum/post/11568179
> 
> 
> Wow, back from vacation!
> 
> John



Welcome back JB!


I did make it up your way last Thursday. I had to go to a naval base in Philly near the airport. Other than it being near 95 and the airport, it had NAVSEA on the sign outside. I'm working on a CAVE system there, so I'll be back in the area if you'll ever want to stop by and see what a CAVE looks like in action.


I'm also still coming that way later this coming week. This time I'm stopping by your place in route to New Jersey. I've been very busy with so many things that at times I often forget what day it is. I need a vacation as well, but for now I have to re-program and possibly de-design a very sophisticated sound system at another military base near Delaware. This system is a part of a blend and CAVE. It has 6 or 8 Christie Digital Mirage projectors on four pipe blend and CAVE setup. My most elaborate today. It uses a 3DP blender.


Wish you had the time to come down this week and help with this, because I'm working with programming a Crestron, so I'll have to take all programming to the shop and put it on my Crestron system and work things out there before returning to the site. I have three days to work wonders. This is a huge system that MUST go back on line ASAP..


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11552018
> 
> 
> William,
> 
> 
> Possible I could make it.



Why don't you come into Dulles Airport, which is right near Williams. And if you do that, we'll make sure you're picked up.


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## damon

My 12' SMX frame showed up on friday. Safe to say I have a healthy new respect for a 12 foot screen.


We will start welding & fabricating a mounting system for my two Ultras this week. No ceiling currently exist that we can use.


Tidbit of other news, a PayPal refund from Caspers ill-fated Marquee input arrived this week.


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## Ericglo

I am in Atlanta now, so if Terry wants to make a road trip and others want to make a road trip then I would be amenable to coming.


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## wallace1234

William,

So how is the set-up going?


Need help?


I can stand around as usual and ask a bunch of questions and distract MP and JB.











wallace


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## mark haflich

Just got back from being away from August 23. Took a week in the Colorado mountains with my wife before Cedia. She did most of the driving because my left eyelid has been drooping shut except for eary morning. Pretty much killed any 3D viewing at Cedia. My wife went home the day before Cedia started. With the aid of my GPS and one open eye I drove fine. I ony smoked 4 cigars over the whole 2 weeks in Colorado.


This is the first time I have seen this thread.


Of course I'll be there.


I assume the thing will flow onto Sunday too?


My house is open to housing. Let me know who needs a pace and who is flying in and out of BWI, by far the cheapest airport.


William will have my Radiance. Hopefully a lot more features will be enabled by then. The Moome card works well with it, when my projector works, though neither will do 1920 or whatever x 1080p at 72. Lesser 1080p at 72 should be possibe.


William. You know nothing about everything that could go wrong in CRT land going wrong. Hell you had a watchable picture for most of the weekend. My projector with Moome hasn't worked since before I went away. Hopefuly MP will have my VIM with Moome inserted working again by tomorrow. Its football season and I want my theater to work again.


If not, its switch to digital time for me.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11585023
> 
> 
> If not, its switch to digital time for me.



Save the Moome card for me..


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## mark haflich

Very constructive post.


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## damon

Mark,


Your NDA has expired. Tell us more about the Radiance??


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## mark haflich

Nice try. My Radiance is back at Lumagen getting some hardware mod necessary for audio. Personally I don't use the Radiance for audio. Most of the features you would like to know about are not yet enabled. No test patterns, noise reduction, yada yada. I think non beta is still 2 months out.


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## damon

I seriously think the NDA was announced as expired prior to CEDIA. Am I wrong on this??


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## Curt Palme




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11513163
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



No, the caption on this pix should read:


Yeah, well on my screen, I look ->THIS


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## mark haflich

I don't know. I'll call Lumagen tomorrow and ask. I did see JRP at the show and he didn't say anything like that to me.


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Curt Palme* /forum/post/11594062
> 
> 
> No, the caption on this pix should read:
> 
> 
> Yeah, well on my screen, I look ->THIS


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## wkosmann

Dear Mark;


I am in LA this week, attending a conference. Of course I forgot my cell phone, so I am telling you in this post what I would have told you if I had called like you asked.


That you for the use of the Radiance. I assume my NDA is still valid. I would like to try a grand experiment. A Blu-ray player, fed through the Radiance to the DVX-8022 then onto the pair of Moome HD VIMs already installed in the projectors, versus my HTPC, with dual HD DVD and Blu-ray drives, fed directly into the DVX-8022. See who produces the better picher. MP's money is on the player/scalar combination. I'm not so sure, but I am willing to go whichever way my eyes tell me to go. BTW, both paths will go through the Moome DVI/DVI repeater, to melt away that nasty HDCP. Should be an interesting comparison. By the end of this weekend, the foundation should be laid to actually be able to see the differences on the SMX screen.


Anybody else who needs to get a hold of me this week, either post here, or PM me.


Oh, the Meet will extend into Sunday, only because Cliff and Clarence don't go to bed until really really late.


And, double oh. Curt Palme, are you actually gonna make it this time, to see what the MP mod fuss is really all about? If you do come, you will see with your very own eyes a 12 foot wide image that will knock your socks off. You will be wanting to add a new section on your Web Site on reference Home Theaters.


William


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## wkosmann

Dear Terry and Galen;


Please, please, please come to the October Meet. It *will* be worth your time. You guys were such a monsterous help in the spring, I really want you to see what the spring image should have looked like. Tantalizing hints of what is to come were created by MP this past weekend.


William


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11595257
> 
> 
> Dear Terry and Galen;
> 
> 
> Please, please, please come to the October Meet. It *will* be worth your time. You guys were such a monsterous help in the spring, I really want you to see what the spring image should have looked like. Tantalizing hints of what is to come were created by MP this past weekend.
> 
> 
> William



Yep, and they are looking great.


----------



## nashou66

William i have never met any of the guys here but would love to. I am on the fence right now deciding to blend or not to blend! if i can get away that weekend i'd love to make it for the meet. This will help me also decide on what to get first, the mp mods or a blend unit! It will be almost a year since I have gotten into CRT and am so glad i found this forum!


Athanasios


----------



## NautikaL

Any word on Ken?


----------



## Curt Palme

I will try. If people pay their damn bills by the end of this month, then it's a possibility..


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Curt Palme* /forum/post/11595522
> 
> 
> I will try.



Try harder







.


----------



## Curt Palme

Pay your bill!




Oh wait, you don't owe me anything..


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Curt Palme* /forum/post/11595630
> 
> 
> Pay your bill!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, you don't owe me anything..




I don't







?








Oh yea thats right... I don't














.


----------



## damon

JRP made the following post on 8/30

in post #1039

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post11468029 


I was wrong it is a partial release.


---------------------------------------------

"I am going to partially release Beta users from the NDA. I was going to do this at CEDIA, but since that is only a few days away I will go ahead and do it now. So, here are the changes to the NDA:


- RadianceXD Beta users can now publicly comment on video quality, and the general usability/reliability of the RadianceXD software. Please make sure to note that the comments relate to Beta software. It would also be good to reference the Beta release date in the text so it can more easily stay with the comments over time.


- Please no "lists" of missing features. Of course some of this will come out with the video quality comments, and since we post the new features with each release on our website, people will be able to follow our progress there.


- Bug reports need to be posted on the closed Beta forum, which is still under NDA or by email/phone with Lumagen.


- Audio is still under NDA until we get it closer to complete".


----------



## mark haflich

Thanks. Now I don't have to call.


Its reliable. Always works. Typical new Gennum deinterlacing of video. Video deinterlacing is much better than last generation Lumagens particularly of 480i. 1080i deinterlacing is better but not by as large a margin. Scaling after video 480i deinterlacing is much better than other Gennum based processors. Really sharp because of no ringing. Much prefer it to the DVDO scaling.


I have been watching film only on my Pioneer 94 Blu Ray. My projector will not work at 24. So I have been watching it at 1080p 60 straight out of the Blu Ray or into the Lumagen at 24 or 60 and out at 60. Frankly at this point and with limited features I see little difference whether inputting 24 or 60 into the Lumagen. Rememer only 60 out.


It is impossible to do a quality set up of my CRT without test patterns generated by the processor. The processor is really the "source" for my CRT. I am limited at present to using internal (in my projector) test patterns at the wrong frequencies or traditional over the air or DVD test patterns. No real HD test patterns. So I really can't comment on my ultimate results since I really can't do a proper set up, yet.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have been watching film only on my Pioneer 94 Blu Ray. My projector will not work at 24. So I have been watching it at 1080p 60 straight out of the Blu Ray or into the Lumagen at 24 or 60 and out at 60. Frankly at this point and with limited features I see little difference whether inputting 24 or 60 into the Lumagen. Rememer only 60 out.



Marc, would you expect any difference at all between 3:2 pulldown (24 => 60) in the RadianceXD vs the internal 3:2 pulldown in any Blu-ray player?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is impossible to do a quality set up of my CRT without test patterns generated by the processor. The processor is really the "source" for my CRT. I am limited at present to using internal (in my projector) test patterns at the wrong frequencies or traditional over the air or DVD test patterns. No real HD test patterns.



You do know about the not-so-secret HD test patterns on every Sony Blu-ray title, right? (Like Memento, Curse of the Golden Flower, Layer Cake, etc). Just type "SONY" at the main menu (7669 on the remote).


I've also got the Silicon Optix HD HQV Benchmark "Image Quality Assessment Tool" on Blu-ray if you want to borrow it (or any of the Sony titles with the 7669 HD test patterns).


----------



## Chuchuf

William,


I can't speak for Galen but 10/20/07 is still a ways off and it's to early for me to commit to that in my schedule. I will try as there are folks up in the NE that want setups as well and this might give me the excuse to head up there.


I do have a few questions for you though.


1. What resolution do you intend to run to the individual PJ's from the 8022??


2. How do you intend to handle A/R control? considering that with the 8022 it's one setup per input. Consider that your screen is a native 2.35, which means that when you want to display a 16:9 picture you will want black bars on the sides. This is converse from the way it is normally handled by a scaler which typically wants to put black bards top and bottom for a 2.35 picture in a 16:9 frame.


3. If you feed an HDCP source to the radiance vis HDMI, then to the 8022 via DVI then to a pair of Moome cards in the 9500's via HDMI, (this is the way I think I am reading about your video chain) do you really think that HDCP will be taken care of? I don't think the Radiance will allow it HDMI output to open if there isn't an HDCP "box" directly attached to it. I could be wrong but that's my understanding from Lumagen.


Let me know your thoughts.


Terry


----------



## mark haflich

Clarence. If the Blu Ray is outputting 24 then I think there is no 3:2 pull down? Correct? if it is outputting 60 then it must be doing 3:2? Correct? Most of my watching of films is thru the Radiance outputting 60. I just don't see much difference on film regardless of how inputting into the Lumagen (24 or 60) and since my projector won't sync with24, I have no means of observing the difference between 24 and 60 out. into the luagen there appears to be no difference. Mostly I watch video. When I get it back from Lumagen I will spend some more time comparing.


I'll play with the test patterns but one still needs them internal to the real SOURCE (the VP) and not the sources plugged into it. The souces and their test patterns are useful for setting the inputs on the processor but the projector itself is set to the processor output.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clarence. If the Blu Ray is outputting 24 then I think there is no 3:2 pull down? Correct? if it is outputting 60 then it must be doing 3:2? Correct?



Since your final output is 60, the 3:2 pulldown must either be done in the blu-ray player or in the video processor. But IMHO 3:2 pulldown is simple, so there's no magic or technological advancement to look for or compare. Both options should give the same result:
setting the blu-ray player to 24f and letting the video processor do the 3:2 pulldown to 60
setting the blu-ray player to 60 and letting it do the 3:2 pulldown internally

My Lumagen HDP won't process 1920x1080p @71.928, you have to drop the HRES down to about 1800x1080p @71.928.


I know you've said your 9500 Ultra won't do 72Hz even with MP mods, but have you tried 24f => 47.95 or 24f => 71.928 with the Radiance? That'd be the key thing I'd look for in a video processor upgrade.


If you're staying at 1080P/60, what's the point of even putting the VP in your video chain?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'll play with the test patterns but one still needs them internal to the real SOURCE (the VP) and not the sources plugged into it.



IMHO, calibrating to the VP is a shortcut. The "real SOURCE" is still your blu-ray player. Your VP is merely the final output stage. A full calibration should be done for each separate source.


I'd rank calibration sources in this order:
BEST: test patterns from each source in native resolution (e.g., 1080P from a blu-ray disc on your blu-ray player)
test patterns in the video processor at the final output resolution and refresh rate
test patterns fed into the VP from an external video test generator (VTG)
projector's internal test patterns

Ken, Terry, MP... concur?


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11597319
> 
> 
> 3. If you feed an HDCP source to the radiance vis HDMI, then to the 8022 via DVI then to a pair of Moome cards in the 9500's via HDMI, (this is the way I think I am reading about your video chain) do you really think that HDCP will be taken care of? I don't think the Radiance will allow it HDMI output to open if there isn't an HDCP "box" directly attached to it. I could be wrong but that's my understanding from Lumagen.



I don't think (haven't tried myself) but I would highly doubt that the DVX would accept HDCP encrypted signals, even if its outputs are connected to HDCP-compliant devices. You could get the Moome DVI amplifier or similar box to strip HDCP.


BR - Andres


----------



## damon

But will that help if the next thing the Radiance wants to "see" in the chain is a HDCP compliant display? Terry & I are worried that this is how the Lumagens prefer to operate regardless of the presence of HDCP.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> I'd rank calibration sources in this order:
> BEST: test patterns from each source in native resolution (e.g., 1080P from a blu-ray disc on your blu-ray player)
> test patterns in the video processor at the final output resolution and refresh rate
> test patterns fed into the VP from an external video test generator (VTG)
> projector's internal test patterns
> 
> Ken, Terry, MP... concur?



I think the way it should be set up from the start is:


Internal patterns

then processors patterns

then source patters. at least this is how i just started doing it and i find less drift doing it this way compared to just using the internals.


Athanasios


----------



## nashou66

Terry, Did you try out the TVone scaler? Not sure if you ever had the chance to test it after I sent it back? I just got My moome cards so wasnt able to test the HDCP issue? I think we need to ask MadMrH(andy) Since i think he has used both belnders, the Analog Way and the TVone. I remeber some where he said that the samsung player had no issues with hdcp to the TVone and the Analog way but i might be wrong. Too bad there isnt a passthrough setting on the DiVentix.


Athanasios


----------



## mark haflich

The Moome card feeding HDMI in won't handle 72 at 1920 x 1080p. The MP modded ultra will do 72 RGBHV in no problem but the Lumagen at HDMI out is limited to 60 at 1920 1080p.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


What is needed is an HD Fury device that is HDMI/DVI in and out, to take HDCP out of the equation, eh?


----------



## nashou66

Madpoet in his initial review wrote this:



> Quote:
> On the HTPC side, for fun I fired up [email protected] My projector is nowhere near set up right to resolve it, but what the heck . The card did actually take it, even though as Moome said it's out of the HDMI spec. SO good news there for those with hotrodded machines.



So it looks like it can do 1080p 72. Also moomes dvi/dvi repeater will do away with hdcp, Hopefully he'll have them soon but i doubt before the meet. i have one on order just for this reason, to use it after the lumagen to a blend unit or straight into the blend unit.


Athanasios


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/11598475
> 
> 
> I don't think (haven't tried myself) but I would highly doubt that the DVX would accept HDCP encrypted signals, even if its outputs are connected to HDCP-compliant devices. You could get the Moome DVI amplifier or similar box to strip HDCP.
> 
> 
> BR - Andres



I don't think the Radiance will "open" it's output if it doesn't see an HDCP device immediately as the next device in the chain. That is the impression I got from Lumagen when I emailed them.

IF that is the case then a stripper will be needed after the Radiance.


BUT this brings up an interesting question. And that has to do with Aspect Ratio contol. Here are my thoughts.


* If the Lumagen (or VP50 for that matter) can be set up with two "memories" for each input, one 2.35 full screen and the other 16:9 with black bars on the side, then all that should be required is a simple HDCP "stripper" from the Lumagens HDMI out to the 8022's DVI in. Then DVI out(2) of the 8022 to the HDMI in on the Momme cards of the 9500. That pretty much keeps everything in the digital domain right to the PJ.


* BUT, if proper A/R control cannot be supplied by the Lumagen (or scaler of choice, then A/R control will have to be done in the 8022. No problem as the 8022 has two DVI inputs and one could be set up for 2.35 (full screen) and the other 16:9 with black bars on the sides. OK but now IF a stripper is needed and wanting to stay in the digital domain into the 8022, a 1 in 2 out DVI or HDMI distribution device with HDCP will need to me added after the Lumagen or other scaler. OR in the case of the Radiance, since it has two HDMI outputs, a stripper could be added to these two outputs (if they are both actuve when you need them) and then into the DVI in's on the 8022.


That's the theory I'm working on but won't be able to test till Mark gets me the scaler he is going to use.


Terry


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11599673
> 
> 
> Terry, Did you try out the TVone scaler? Not sure if you ever had the chance to test it after I sent it back? I just got My moome cards so wasnt able to test the HDCP issue? I think we need to ask MadMrH(andy) Since i think he has used both belnders, the Analog Way and the TVone. I remeber some where he said that the samsung player had no issues with hdcp to the TVone and the Analog way but i might be wrong. Too bad there isnt a passthrough setting on the DiVentix.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Not yet I have another customer who is supposed to be getting me one to test with.


Terry


----------



## damon

Is the 72hz roadblock purely chipset related?? I am not asking this question with CRT PJ's in mind (I know what it takes for them to do 72), I mean all the other parts of the chain.


----------



## mark haflich

The Radiance right now is limited to 1080p 60 so I have no means of testing the Moome at a higher rate. Also my Moome is kaput. No HV sync being sent to the projector. It is some intermitant problem. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Probably something loose or whatever. Have emailed Moome. God. I hate this sport sometimes. Keep thinking of going digital. Plug and play instead of plugging, unplugging, playing, plugging yada yada.


Tim. The HD Fury is not all that good. Its OK but the Moome's PQ is much much better.


----------



## antorsae

How many HDCP sources are you going to have? If just one, just add the HDCP stripper right after it. E.g. HDCP stripper after a PS3 and then into the VP.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11600866
> 
> 
> Not yet I have another customer who is supposed to be getting me one to test with.
> 
> 
> Terry



Andy over in England has been working closely with the people at TVone and told me there are some major and very nice changes comming to the software that most likley, the way it sounds to me, will be dirrectly aimed at using the scalers for the home theater market. But dont quote me. Since their chips are in house and use there own software i'm hoping they come up with a software for blending that eliminates all the text and video over lays that now void any hdcp compatability licensing for there current units. This i remind you is just what i would like to see, the same hardware just different software, which is something TVone can easily do with some minor changes to software. I am seriously considering using two C2-2250's since this is the least expensive solution while having a unit in its own case and having dvi inputs and outputs, i have two HDQ's and was thinking sending the output of each to the tvone or from the tvone out to the lumagens. but this will all be inthe future as i await some financial decisions.


Athanasios


----------



## Gino AUS

If I had the Radiance in my chain, it would be the one handling the AR control for CIH and simply connected like this:

Sources (Component, HDMI, HD-SDI) - > Radiance Pro (HDMI) - > Moome external (DVI) -> DVX8022 (DVI) -> Projectors (Moome HDMI)


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11606541
> 
> 
> If I had the Radiance in my chain, it would be the one handling the AR control for CIH and simply connected like this:
> 
> Sources (Component, HDMI, HD-SDI) - > Radiance Pro (HDMI) - > Moome external (DVI) -> DVX8022 (DVI) -> Projectors (Moome HDMI)













Or how about HDMI, Radiance, Moome External, HD15, RGBHV to the DVX.


Both are very simple.










Not only that, but the external box was for sale recently in the display devices forum right?


I love this hobbie. Great suggestion Gino!


Cliffy


----------



## nashou66

The moome external DVI repeater is different than the Hdmi external one, the former has hdcp stripping i believe, this way its digital all the way through. Right Gino?


Athanasios


----------



## damon

I thought Gino was going this route:


HD-DVD source w HD-SDI

Importing & exporting from the DVX-8022 in HD-SDI


HD-SDI input of Radiance X 2 ( 2 Radiances required ) HDMI X 2 to the Twins w Moome cards.


Expensive but elegant & simple. Look at the plus side, you do save some coin on cabling!!


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11606541
> 
> 
> If I had the Radiance in my chain, it would be the one handling the AR control for CIH and simply connected like this:
> 
> Sources (Component, HDMI, HD-SDI) - > Radiance Pro (HDMI) - > Moome external (DVI) -> DVX8022 (DVI) -> Projectors (Moome HDMI)



Gino,


So you are saying that you can get proper A/R control with the scaler when you want to do 16:9 on a 2.35 screen? In other words black bars on the sides? Are you doing this with size controls in the scaler for 16:9?

If this works I like this method best as it requires no selections or changes on the 8022 setup for both 16:9 and 2.35.


Terry


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11609728
> 
> 
> Gino,
> 
> 
> So you are saying that you can get proper A/R control with the scaler when you want to do 16:9 on a 2.35 screen? In other words black bars on the sides? Are you doing this with size controls in the scaler for 16:9?
> 
> If this works I like this method best as it requires no selections or changes on the 8022 setup for both 16:9 and 2.35.
> 
> 
> Terry



Terry, you can do this with the VP50 which I'm sure you already know. Does the radiance have aspect control?


Cliff


----------



## mark haflich

Yes.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11607156
> 
> 
> I thought Gino was going this route:
> 
> 
> HD-DVD source w HD-SDI
> 
> Importing & exporting from the DVX-8022 in HD-SDI
> 
> 
> HD-SDI input of Radiance X 2 ( 2 Radiances required ) HDMI X 2 to the Twins w Moome cards.
> 
> 
> Expensive but elegant & simple. Look at the plus side, you do save some coin on cabling!!



I do like HD-SDI, so when the Radiance Pro comes out it will be: HD-SDI sources -> Radiance (HD-SDI) -> DVX8022 (HD-SDI) -> moome (HDMI)


It's a good idea to keep the VP before the DVX, that way it is only one setup memory on the DVX and the VP controls aspects


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11606648
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or how about HDMI, Radiance, Moome External, HD15, RGBHV to the DVX.
> 
> 
> Both are very simple.



You could do that Cliff, but the other way keeps everything in the digital domain til the moome.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11609728
> 
> 
> So you are saying that you can get proper A/R control with the scaler when you want to do 16:9 on a 2.35 screen? In other words black bars on the sides? Are you doing this with size controls in the scaler for 16:9?



That is correct Terry. The VP adds the bars automatically depending on the source AR, no need to touch the DVX


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11641575
> 
> 
> You could do that Cliff, but the other way keeps everything in the digital domain til the moome.



DAMNIT!!!! It's ABOUT TIME somebody come in and chime away.


Lucky Bastard with LUGS. YOU SUCK!!!!!
























Cliffy


----------



## mp20748

Ok, let me try an post an update on where we are with things on the upcoming blend meet.


So far, things are going well. And we're expecting to have much better results with having worked out the source problems that plague us from the first meet.


We had some time to look at the Moome card in my 8500, and to also try it on the blend system on only one projector so far. We did this for an image comparison to see what looks better coming out of the Blend unit. The one marquee had a Moome card in slot 2, with also 20' of RGBHV (Belden 1694) on input slot 1. The output from the Blend unit to the Marquees Moome card was a DVI to HDMI cable.


The Moome card input was our choice. So, we'll be running both RGBHV and DVI/HDMI to the Marquees, but it's going to be Moome on slot 2 only for the Blend meet.


We also tried DVI from the Direct TV box to the DVI on the Blend unit. the comparison was RGBHV out of the Sat box against the DVI to DVI from the Sat box to the Blend unit.


DVI to DVI was out choice.


Next, we'll be looking at the other source for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Since HD-DVD is on the HTPC, and I'm not an HTPC fan for this. not sure if it'll be used, unless somehow, that DVI out of the HTPC's video card can be used in this setup. And the image is on par with the Blu-ray that will be a standalone player.


Not sure if we'll have a video processor there, and if not, we'll be looking at a few options to go digital out of the HTPC/Blu-Ray player directly into the Blend unit.


We want digital all the way to the Marquee, and we plan to make that happen.


Yep Cliff, HDMI is the bomb!


more later...


----------



## damon

Purely speculation on my part but I believe ,as I think William does ,that the 8022 will perform best when all processing is done in the digital realm. Digital in & digital out.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11646109
> 
> 
> Purely speculation on my part but I believe ,as I think William does ,that the 8022 will perform best when all processing is done in the digital realm. Digital in & digital out.



Of course it will!


----------



## CRT_Ben

Hi William,


I'd like to attend, my fiancee Cheryl may or may not make it, but my brother has expressed interest in coming as well. So I may have 1, or as many as three







Looking forward to a great time!










Ben


----------



## mp20748

I'll add quick update on what we'll be using for the resolution on the blends, because we have clearly decided on that. We will be running both 9500's at 1280x1024 @ 72hz After much thought and research, no doubt, it will be the best resolution.


That means that we'll be shooting two 9" gun 9500's on 6' wide screen surfaces (12' wide screen) right next to each other for the blend. I want to maintain the vertical resolution as close to 1080P as possible, so that where we settled on 1024P in Blendzilla. The horizontal rate we wanted it to be as

small as possible, so we decided against the 1400 with 1280 as being the best for this.


Last evening, I finished dialing in the focus on my lowly 8500 at 1920x1080P. My goal is to exceed as much as possible the sharpness I'm now getting from my 8500. With the 9500's having much better lenses and higher resolution CRT's, to include running at a lower resolution, that increase should be very possible.


The image from my 8500 is now amazingly sharp. And that's with stock focus yokes.

*Blu-Ray 1920x1080P on my lowly 8500 Ultra - Moome - 80" wide screen*


----------



## NautikaL

Hi all,


I plan to attend with my friend Zac. I came with my dad last time, but he's going to be away.


Does anyone know if Ken or Terry will be coming to the meet?


-Jeff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11694392
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> I plan to attend with my friend Zac. I came with my dad last time, but he's going to be away.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if Ken or Terry will be coming to the meet?
> 
> 
> -Jeff



Jeff,


You should really post this over in the thread on top in the sticky.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11694461
> 
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> 
> You should really post this over in the thread on top in the sticky.



Ummmm, I did? Cliff, have you been drinking?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11694480
> 
> 
> Ummmm, I did? Cliff, have you been drinking?




LOL, no Just having fun.










Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11695899
> 
> 
> LOL, no Just having fun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



lol okay...you scared me for a second though. I had to double check that I wasn't in the screenshot war thread with mike's amazing screenshots a few posts up







. Still can't believe that's air coupled... no halos, no light spill (that I can see). Even in his U-571 shots, which are very prone to halos and light spill (ie black background with a street light), the contrast is great. Seems like I really need Ken or Terry down here.


----------



## Chuchuf

Still undecided.....I should know in a week or so depending on some other things.


Terry


----------



## mp20748

We're getting closer to the day of the meet, and with that, it's time to make sure we have what's needed for the source devices. Because all final setups and calibrations are very dependent on the sources that will be used.


So far we've solved the digital link from the 8022 by using the Moome HDMI cards in the two Marquees. That would provide the digital link from the 8022 to the Marquees. now we'd like to have a digital link from the digital source (Bru-Ray/HD-DVD) to the 8022.


Not sure If a HDMI switcher would solve the HDMI problem from the source to the 8022, so we'll have to concentrate for now on the HK-FURY being used in the chain. That would not be my best choice, because it would put an analog link in the chain before the 8022. When our goal for this was a pure digital chain directly to the Marquees.


And for the best from the 8022, we hope to use 1080P into in the 8022. That resolution would use very little work from the processing guts of the 8022 for the best image.


Have anyone tried or tested a HDMI switcher (stripper) that would work from HDMI to DVI? I'm looking at this as a way around the HK-Fury being in the chain.


The projectors are already hung and waiting for the final setup/calibration that it would need once that final source device is in place, Then we can take things to the final level.


----------



## overclkr

Mike,


I'm just curious as to why your wanting to pass through HDCP on the 8022?


Looking at the back panel, wouldn't it be best to use a processor say like the VP50 for all of your sources, then go from the processor to say the moome external HDMI, then RGBHV into the 8022, then RGBHV to the projectors?











I only ask because as flaky as HDMI can be, introducing two HDCP "compliant" cards into the Video chain at the end in between the source which is HDCP and then the 8022 (not HDCP compliant) in the middle possibly causing issues?


Has anyone tried this?


Another possible combination would be the DVI output of the moome external into the DVI input on the 8022 as well.


Just so you know as well, having the VP50 in my video chain has solved 99.5% of all of the problems that people have had with moome's products. It's worked wonders for me.......


Cliff


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11711634
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> I'm just curious as to why your wanting to pass through HDCP on the 8022?



My thought was to be able to connect the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player directly up to the 8022. We were thinking to use a stripper in between.




> Quote:
> Looking at the back panel, wouldn't it be best to use a processor say like the VP50 for all of your sources, then go from the processor to say the moome external HDMI, then RGBHV into the 8022, then RGBHV to the projectors?



Maybe so, but since we're getting close to the meet, I need to start dialing things in. And in order to do that, I'll need all source devices in place. A processor is not on the table at this time.




> Quote:
> I only ask because as flaky as HDMI can be, introducing two HDCP "compliant" cards into the Video chain at the end in between the source which is HDCP and then the 8022 (not HDCP compliant) in the middle possibly causing issues?



You're being of big help here, because i have no first hand experience with these issues.



> Quote:
> Has anyone tried this?



Yes, anybody?




> Quote:
> Another possible combination would be the DVI output of the moome external into the DVI input on the 8022 as well.



This was my intent. But it appears the new Moome external may not be available in time.




> Quote:
> Just so you know as well, having the VP50 in my video chain has solved 99.5% of all of the problems that people have had with moome's products. It's worked wonders for me.......
> 
> 
> Cliff



WE were hoping that Mark would have his Radiance to try out. It went back to Lumagen, and may not be available in time for final setup at this point.


Thanks Cliff!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11712203
> 
> 
> My thought was to be able to connect the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player directly up to the 8022. We were thinking to use a stripper in between.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe so, but since we're getting close to the meet, I need to start dialing things in. And in order to do that, I'll need all source devices in place. A processor is not on the table at this time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're being of big help here, because i have no first hand experience with these issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, anybody?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was my intent. But it appears the new Moome external may not be available in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WE were hoping that Mark would have his Radiance to try out. It went back to Lumagen, and may not be available in time for final setup at this point.
> 
> 
> Thanks Cliff!



Well here is what I would do big dog. First of all, with you already having 2 moome boards, contact him and ask him to send you his test board that he uses for his internal cards. I bought the one he used on his ISS project and it allows me to run the card outside of the switcher. You plug your marquee card into the external board and it outputs RGBHV from there. I'm sure he has one and has designed one for every one of his projects. This way, you wouldn't have to wait or take a chance on the external box. If you could get a hold of him soon, I would imagine that he could get one too you some time next week.


Also, since I cannot help but recommend it, I would pick up a VP50 or a VP50 Pro. You dont have to, but I recommend it. It's a fantastic processor that has matured very well and works wonders with the moome cards.


Digital to the moome, analog to the 8022, analog to the projectors. I think that's the ticket, not to mention, it's doable before the meet.










Now, since I opened my big mouth last year, I will now shut it and wish you guys the BEST of luck in getting her set up and am really looking foward to coming out.

















Cliffy


----------



## Chuchuf

Our goal is to try and stay digital all the way to the PJ.

No A/D or D/A


Terry


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11712363
> 
> 
> Now, since I opened my big mouth last year, I will now shut it and wish you guys the BEST of luck in getting her set up and am really looking foward to coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Now there you go again... I've told you several times that I personally did not have a problem with your suggestions at the meet. Nor did I have a problem with you wanting to try various sources. I knew a head of time that we were not prepared to present our best then, so we were open for suggestions. Plus, that meet was clearly explained to me that someone would be bringing a source to try out on the system.


Now with that being said, you did nothing wrong. If i could fault you for anything it would be you being so closed minded and thinking that nothing was as good as a G90. I only wish the setup was worthy to prove you wrong, but it wasn't. So I had to deal with one more gung ho G90 addict not seeing my work at it's best. And that made me feel funny.


Other than that, I give you very high marks for just putting the cards on the table at that meet. unlike the others, you told me exactly what you thought of the setup at the time. And that was one on one. so you're good with me, and you've been very helpful with your responses in this thread. So don't punk out on me now and go hide in a corner. Your input is also welcomed and appreciated here.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11715907
> 
> 
> Now there you go again... I've told you several times that I personally did not have a problem with your suggestions at the meet. Nor did I have a problem with you wanting to try various sources. I knew a head of time that we were not prepared to present our best then, so we were open for suggestions. Plus, that meet was clearly explained to me that someone would be bringing a source to try out on the system.
> 
> 
> Now with that being said, you did nothing wrong. If i could fault you for anything it would be you being so closed minded and thinking that nothing was as good as a G90. I only wish the setup was worthy to prove you wrong, but it wasn't. So I had to deal with one more gung ho G90 addict not seeing my work at it's best. And that made me feel funny.
> 
> 
> Other than that, I give you very high marks for just putting the cards on the table at that meet. unlike the others, you told me exactly what you thought of the setup at the time. And that was one on one. so you're good with me, and you've been very helpful with your responses in this thread. So don't punk out on me now and go hide in a corner. Your input is also welcomed and appreciated here.



Mike, I have a great deal of respect for you and your hard work. Your a great person and the time we've spent has been nothing short of awesome.


Remember a certain Nicole Kidman clip and both of our jaws laying on the floor not to long ago?










Hell, that was DVHS!










The bottom line is I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be an expert, but what works, well works.......


I wen't through hell in a hand basket trying to get the proper solution for my blendzilla meet and I know what your mods are capable of and want you to be able to exploit that to the max.


Did you know that the VP50 outputs both 24 and 48hz? Boy would that not be the bee's knees at 72hz from the 8022?


Hell, it also has blanking, and as well many other features that would be VERY useful for stand alone sources.


Hell, if I didn't have the VP30 for my meet, I would have been in a bad situation to be honest with you.


Not to mention, built in test patterns that would be key to setting up the blend and as well both RGBHV, component, SDI, and HDMI switching. You cant go wrong.


Both BD and HD have players out now that output 1080P/24 and I would not hesitate to exploit what these awesome players have to offer on a blended system like William's.


You've been here, you've seen it. You know.


As far as the G90 fanboy thing, well, yes, I cant help it.










But even the mighty G90 could use your magic touch to make it perfect so anyone who thinks that G90's dont need mods are sadly mistaken.


You have to give Sony credit though on that projector. It's the BEST out of box CRT next to the 909/Cine 9 ever made.










Hell, it ranks with the best period.


Cliff


----------



## damon

Met too many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.


Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11719150
> 
> 
> Met to many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.
> 
> 
> Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?



I believe it was Clarence.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11719150
> 
> 
> Met to many people at Williams last blend meet to remember who contributed the HD-DVD demo disc.
> 
> 
> Would I be correct in assuming that these demo disc have no HDCP on them? If this is the case wouldn't they be a perfect for testing?



You would be correct, no HDCP, but these demo discs are made from 1080i mpeg2 transport streams from cable etc.. not true HD-DVD or BD material


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11718481
> 
> 
> The bottom line is I am not perfect, nor do I claim to be an expert, but what works, well works.......



And since you're one of the pioneers to make this work with the 8022, it would be foolish to not hear from you on this. Hell, when it comes to doing something for the first time, no ones an expert. But that does give the edge to the more experienced.




> Quote:
> I wen't through hell in a hand basket trying to get the proper solution for my blendzilla meet and I know what your mods are capable of and want you to be able to exploit that to the max



I know, you really enjoy this hobby. And you're really not biased (though you're still a G90 fanboy). You'll give true props to anything or anybody that rightfully deserve it. You even speak highly of the digitals that have also done well. I have a ways to go on this one. I must admit, I have too much CRT bias in place still. And I must also say, that's not good or right.




> Quote:
> Did you know that the VP50 outputs both 24 and 48hz? Boy would that not be the bee's knees at 72hz from the 8022?



Hopefully they could make that happen, because that VP50 is AWESOME!!!




> Quote:
> Hell, if I didn't have the VP30 for my meet, I would have been in a bad situation to be honest with you



Yep, and that has been a lesson to us all, thanks to you. That image I saw at your house on that 10' wide screen cannot be reproduced in screenshots. One would have to see it for themselves. It's something that to this day stay with me, to have seen an image from a CRT setup that intense and in order. That was a job well done. And it took quite a few people and things to make happen. And that's the kind of hook-up I'm hoping for. And It can happen with your help.


This whole HDMI thing is new to me. hey you were that guy that kept saying HDMI is da bomb!


You were right!


----------



## mark haflich

I don't get this anymore. I thought the intent was to have a second meet to see a fully operational and tweaked blend HT, not a limited demo of CT blend technology? Actually I'll look at it all as a great reunion, friends, food, drink, cigars. Maybe the spring blend meet will have a finished set up, but I doubt it.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11730628
> 
> 
> Maybe the spring blend meet will have a finished set up, but I doubt it.



What else would a pessimist say?


Btw, rather than being a backseat commentator on this next event, why not just stay home. That way the event would be a success regardless. After all, how can man predict the out come of anything. Our hopes is to do the best we can with WHAT WE HAVE, and if you can present of offer anything to help the situation. By all means do so. But if you or anyone else has the same negative intents at the next event. Don't bother to come out. And I meant that!


Get out of that glass house Mark...


----------



## mark haflich

Mike. I am not picking on you and you know that. Cut it out. My point is that given the current state of the art, available support, processors, available external strippers, blue ray players, it is neigh impossible to view CT blend as anything other than an ongoing flexible hobbyist exercise. It is not at the state that anyone can say, please install me one of these things in a turn key nstallation in any foreseeable period of time. A Gino, a hands on bright energetic guys with apparently unlimited financial resources, can by devoting substantia hours maybe has done it. No one else that I know. A stack can be done, that's for sure. Art did it. Cliffy did it. Mark Conner is struggling and it has taken a long time. Total cost tyo him is staggering. And he opurchased his screen real cheap, second hand and bought his blender for a song on ebay.


A blend for most would be like chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. moreover, while you probbly can't get there, the pot doesn't really exist. This blend stuff is for technology demo, that's all. A foolish investment at this point in my opinion. But boys can spend on thheir toys and I certainly do. Whatever tuns one on. When processors and sources stabilize a bit, maybe it might be worthwhile but digital projectors are almost there and will be within a year. By the time eveything else stabilizes CTs will be even further obsolete. This stacking and blending gets you what, double the ft lamberts and with the right selection of gamma in the case of a stack, no loss of black detail over a single projector.


Nothing wrong with friends getting together with a great host to see a better demo of technology than last time. But what happens after the meet? Processors, switchers, calibrations, automation yada yada. Can and will this be done for the spring meet? I doubt it. Its very tough getting all the pesonnel needed to coordinate and have everything in place. Using CTs and blending, I think makes it next to impossible. Not your fault that its not there yet by any means.


I like my CRT and respect you for what you have done for it. A single 9 incher is fine. A stack is fine. A blend? Not in my book. Not now and probably not later.


----------



## mark haflich

BTW. I as well as you state our minds. I don't get mad when someone calls it like they see it. They and I can be wrong. But discussion is good and we all learn and refine our views.


----------



## Chuchuf




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11731841
> 
> 
> Mike. I am not picking on you and you know that. Cut it out. My point is that given the current state of the art, available support, processors, available external strippers, blue ray players, it is neigh impossible to view CT blend as anything other than an ongoing flexible hobbyist exercise. It is not at the state that anyone can say, please install me one of these things in a turn key nstallation in any foreseeable period of time. A Gino, a hands on bright energetic guys with apparently unlimited financial resources, can by devoting substantia hours maybe has done it. No one else that I know. A stack can be done, that's for sure. Art did it. Cliffy did it. Mark Conner is struggling and it has taken a long time. Total cost tyo him is staggering. And he opurchased his screen real cheap, second hand and bought his blender for a song on ebay.
> 
> 
> A blend for most would be like chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. moreover, while you probbly can't get there, the pot doesn't really exist. This blend stuff is for technology demo, that's all. A foolish investment at this point in my opinion. But boys can spend on thheir toys and I certainly do. Whatever tuns one on. When processors and sources stabilize a bit, maybe it might be worthwhile but digital projectors are almost there and will be within a year. By the time eveything else stabilizes CTs will be even further obsolete. This stacking and blending gets you what, double the ft lamberts and with the right selection of gamma in the case of a stack, no loss of black detail over a single projector.
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with friends getting together with a great host to see a better demo of technology than last time. But what happens after the meet? Processors, switchers, calibrations, automation yada yada. Can and will this be done for the spring meet? I doubt it. Its very tough getting all the pesonnel needed to coordinate and have everything in place. Using CTs and blending, I think makes it next to impossible. Not your fault that its not there yet by any means.
> 
> 
> I like my CRT and respect you for what you have done for it. A single 9 incher is fine. A stack is fine. A blend? Not in my book. Not now and probably not later.



Mark,


While I agree with part of what you say, I think you are missing the point of doing a blend. A 2.35 screen 12' or even larger cannot be done with any single CRT or even a stack......period. So if that is what you are trying to achieve, want to retain all the positive aspects of CRT without going a digital projector with lens for the 2.35, then blend is the only way to go.

That IMO is the only reason to do a blend. And it is very do able with todays technology.

Is it an out of the box system, of course not, It is very custom engineered and requires a lot of time and $$ to put together, especially if you aren't the kind or DIY'er that Gino or some of the other blenders are and you hire a pro to do it for you.


Terry


----------



## mark haflich

Good points Terry.


But still. There are so many pieces needed. Strppers, Taiwanese cards, processors capable of doing something if only they could do it. It ain't for the faint hearted. And waits are forever sometimes. The end result. Maybe better than a big mother digital in a few ways but not in most. I can see the preservation of single CRTs (which without the great MP in my neighborhood I would have long been out of it) or stacks but blends while dooable why do it?


----------



## mark haflich

Mr. Kossman is in fine spirits. He will be at Art's this weekend at Art's meet. I will be loaning him a Radiance for the month of October. I gather the Sony blue ray game machine will be going thru that if I understand him correctly. He plans on having four different sources only one of which will go through the processor. The others will go straight to the Blendzilla. Every meet needs some good, some bad, and some ugly. Fortunately or unfortunately, when I attend one gets all three in one body. Not too much bad I hope but lots of the other two.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11737565
> 
> 
> Mr. Kossman is in fine spirits. He will be at Art's this weekend at Art's meet. I will be loaning him a Radiance for the month of October. I gather the Sony blue ray game machine will be going thru that if I understand him correctly. He plans on having four different sources only one of which will go through the processor. The others will go straight to the Blendzilla.













Or maybe I should calm down first... Maybe he has a second system to use that Radiance on. As far as the setup and system that I'm doing in Middleburg. If it's not a VP50, it's not going to be a part of that setup.


It's easy to set back and direct a choir when you have neither the talent to sing, or the time to devote to the rehearsals.


A lot of time has already went into putting this system together. We've spent many hours on the phone and via emails and PM's comparing different things that others have also tried. This may not have been posted here on the forum, but this has already been a labor to get to the best sources and ways to connect this system together.


With that being said, in no way will we be bringing In a processor that first, no one has any real experience with. Second, it has not been used and confirmed for this application. We tried this at the last meet with a loaner processor, and found that it had a color space issue. So anything that has not already been though the hoop, is not going to be a part of this system. At least while I'm involved for this coming meet. So I'm not sure where these Ideas are coming from, I'm under a whole different understanding on this..


So once again. try and understand that we are NOT going to be needing that Radiance.


I think with the help of Terry, Cliff and a few others, we already know which way we'll be going with this.


----------



## mark haflich

WTF. He asked me if he could borrow it for the meet. I asked him how he was going to use it. He told me. I said fine with me. I really don't care whether he uses it or not. He plans on picking it up on Monday. Somehow he thinks he will have four different sources set up before the meet.


Don't lecture me or tell me to get anything straight. I am neither the client nor the host. I am not employed here nor am I the one paying you.. I am not conducting any choir. I am just the loaner of a piece of equipment the host requested for the meet and was merely reporting what he told me. I am not the one who needs to get anything straight.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11739314
> 
> 
> WTF. He asked me if he could borrow it for the meet. I asked him how he was going to use it. He told me. I said fine with me. I really don't care whether he uses it or not. He plans on picking it up on Monday. Somehow he thinks he will have four different sources set up before the meet.
> 
> 
> Don't lecture me or tell me to get anything straight. I am neither the client nor the host. I am not employed here nor am I the one paying you.. I am not conducting any choir. I am just the loaner of a piece of equipment the host requested for the meet and was merely reporting what he told me. I am not the one who needs to get anything straight.



I had a phone conversation with you yesterday on this. In that conversation, I told you we were not going to be using that Radiance. I had explained to you why. And if William had requested it, he may not have been clear as to why we're not going to be using it. So it was not a good idea to post about something that you were not sure was going to happen. it's not like you were not aware of what's going on. I clearly made you aware yesterday. What you're dealing with is what William may want to happen, but since we don't plan to put ourselves in the same situation that happened last time, we're not going to be implementing a device that we're not sure of.


So there are times if one wants to direct the choir, they should at least know the song that they'll be singing.


----------



## mp20748

In the bottom right corner, you'll see: JPL


----------



## mark haflich

Once again. Don''t tell me. Tell him. I talked to him today about Art's party. We are both flying into Detroit on Sat. I. hoped I could arrange a ride for him with the people who are picking me up but he is arriving too late. He asked about the Radiance. I told him I was getting it back on Friday. I told him I thought you guys were only going to have one source hooked up for the meet. He said no. There were going to be four and he needed the Radiance for one of them, a temporary one for the meet. The other three would be permanent and would go directly through the Blendziila.. He said he was going to be talking to you. I said he needed to because as far as I knew you planned to have only one source operational for the meet but I would be happy to lend him the Radiance.


Enough. I'll see him on Sat at Art's.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11740249
> 
> 
> Once again. Don''t tell me. Tell him. I talked to him today about Art's party. We are both flying into Detroit on Sat. I. hoped I could arrange a ride for him with the people who are picking me up but he is arriving too late. He asked about the Radiance. I told him I was getting it back on Friday. I told him I thought you guys were only going to have one source hooked up for the meet. He said no. There were going to be four and he needed the Radiance for one of them, a temporary one for the meet. The other three would be permanent and would go directly through the Blendziila.. He said he was going to be talking to you. I said he needed to because as far as I knew you planned to have only one source operational for the meet but I would be happy to lend him the Radiance.
> 
> 
> Enough. I'll see him on Sat at Art's.


*"He said he was going to be talking to you. I said he needed to* because as far as I knew you planned to have only one source operational for the meet but I would be happy to lend him the Radiance"



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11737565
> 
> 
> Mr. Kossman is in fine spirits. He will be at Art's this weekend at Art's meet. *I will be loaning him a Radiance for the month of October. I gather the Sony blue ray game machine will be going thru that if I understand him correctly. He plans on having four different sources only one of which will go through the processor. The others will go straight to the Blendzilla* Every meet needs some good, some bad, and some ugly. Fortunately or unfortunately, when I attend one gets all three in one body. Not too much bad I hope but lots of the other two.




BusyBody

bus·y·bod·y

–noun, plural -bod·ies.

a person who pries into or meddles in the affairs of others.


----------



## mark haflich

Let's see. Whatever I do is no good. I just should have said no. Its broken or you don't need it. Or they won't hook it up because its unknown (until they try it. Err.) Or what.


I told he he didn't need it because only one source, a blue ray player, was going to be operational. You posted that earlier in your "progress report" on this thread. Didn't you?


He said no. Four. I said he needed to talk to you.


I should have said what? There isn't any time to get 4 hooked up?


The main reason I think is there is no pont in hooking things up until all needed final components are in place. Such as the stripper arrives (relax Cliffy, not that kind of stripper) and yada yada. But dont worry, the meet will go on with one source in a temporary gluge using the HD Fury. The Fury isn't that good but it will have to do. But he knows all that. He just wants a gluge with four sources.


I can indeed understand why a theater owner might want to have multiple sources operational after six months even if it was temporary.

Or why an installer might not want to do it. Its something he needs to great straight between himself and his installers. Not me.


I realy do unstand how much wasted work there would be in trying to optimize 4 temporary sources. I also can understand the need to wait until things are produced and the customer obtains them all. I also can undestand a customer who says, I don't care. Hook it up. I'll watch it any which way. All this is between the customer and his lead installer. All I did was tel him to talk to him and get on the same page, not what page he and you should be on.


----------



## Chuchuf

Mark and Mike,


Let me try and mediate this so that you guys don't end up in a tizzy (which already may have happened) over nothing.

Mike is trying to make sure that everything works correctly for the meet as a blend. And as lead integrator, he doesn't want wrenches thrown into the mix as he wants it to work and work correctly. Integrating this system is no easy task and not something that should be done at the last second as was done in the first meet at Williams home.


Now lets step back a second and figure out what relationship a scaler might have in a 2.35 blended system. As I see it it is three fold:


* Source switching

* De-interlacing 1080i-1080p

* Aspect Ratio control


The Radiance is a beta product at best and will be for some time to come and as such, really add's nothing to the mix right now. When they have it fully sorted out, perhaps but that could be a year from now based on their history and the Lumagen HDP product line which IMO never really did get 1080i ->1080P working as good as other scalers.


Consider the sources Mike and William will be running.

* HTPC w/ HDDVD add on already outputs 1080P and can be set up for A/R control so no scaler needed here.

* XBox360 w/ HD DVD alreay outputs 1080P but 16:9 aspect ration can be an issue

* ?? Blue ray or HD DVD player which already outputs 1080P but 16:9 aspect ration can be an issue

* HDTV really this is the only thing that the Radiance brings to the table, but them for this meet, how important is that.


So as I see it the ONLY thing the Radiance can bring to the mix is A/R control and it is unknown as to if the Radiance in it's current Beta state will do that correctly.


Therefore I can understand Mikes frustration with throwing something into the mix that may or probably not have any benefit when it's all said and done.


Is this something that William should investigate, sure, but not at the expense of having a good meet with a product that is a long way from release and will have many firmware patches if history tells us anything.


As you know, I talked Mark C. out of using the Radiance in his blend system for these very reasons. I posed the question to him "Do you want an operation system that works correctly, or do you want a system to constantly be reconfiguring". He choose the former and ordered a VP50 PRO.


As far as A/R control goes without using a scaler, this can be done pretty simply. If they are going into the 8022 RGBHV, then it's just a matter of using a 1-2 distribution box that will output two RGBHV outputs to the 8022. Since the 8022 will only do one setup (A/R if you will) per input, then with two inputs you can set up one as 16:9 (black bars on the sides) and one as 2.35 (full screen).


Terry


----------



## Chuchuf

There is another point that should be brought up so that ALL parties know what is going on.


Blending is not hard or difficult (rocket science if you will) IF you have all the correct parts and they all work together properly.

Trying to blend and do system integration in the field can be challenging at best if you are the systems integrator and are trying to get everything to work correctly.


Then along comes someone with "this and that" which they think should be thrown into the mix that is already difficult at best. My attitude would be, if it isn't in the spec, it's NOT going in the system. Especially a piece of gear that is not needed to achieve the end result, and especially one that is not a final and fully released product.


This is why a blended system I am doing we are taking ALL the variables out of the equation and integrating all the components in my shop into complete working system. This is a controlled environment where I don't have the time pressure you would get in the field to perform no matter what the variables are.


I don't intend to show up at his place in TX and try and piece this together. I don't want any guess work when I get there. I want a complete and operating system that meets the intent of a 12' 2.35 blended CRT system that operates "out of the box".


I can imagine what Mike is going through and will never put myself in that position again.


Terry


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/11744430
> 
> 
> Mark and Mike,
> 
> 
> Consider the sources Mike and William will be running.
> 
> * HTPC w/ HDDVD add on already outputs 1080P and can be set up for A/R control so no scaler needed here.
> 
> * XBox360 w/ HD DVD alreay outputs 1080P but 16:9 aspect ration can be an issue
> 
> * ?? Blue ray or HD DVD player which already outputs 1080P but 16:9 aspect ration can be an issue
> 
> * HDTV really this is the only thing that the Radiance brings to the table, but them for this meet, how important is that.
> 
> 
> Terry



Couple of things.


Why would you even bother with the 360 for HD DVD playback? Second, are you guys really still wanting to tweak out an HTPC for HD DVD? The second generation HD DVD players are awesome. Hell, the first were as well, but I know the importance to M and W wanting to run 72hz/24FPS for film so first gen is out. 2nd gen once again though are most excellent players.


Blue Ray as well has come into it's own and even a player like the PS3 ranks up with the absolute best and it's been out for a year now. Both BD and HD now have 24fps capability which is perfect for what William and Mike are trying to accomplish.


Speaking of 16:9 aspect usage, this is where I feel it's even more important to have a processor like the VP50 in the mix. Full aspect control with excellent deinterlacing (if needed), test patterns, HDMI switching, component inputs, etc. The list goes on and on.


If all William will be using the system for is watching video/film, why not keep it simple and use stand alone sources with a processor? The VP50 will also PASS a 1080P/24 signal if I'm not mistaken if needed.


Another thing I think about in regards to the system is Audio as well. I recently upgraded to the Pioneer Elite 94 receiver and now have Dolby True HD and DTS MA capability as well as uncompressed PCM from Blue Ray. My entire system to my ISS switcher is now HDMI. I'm loving it. The sound upgrade to the better formats is much more than minute.


You know I'm a computer guy and if you came to my house and saw all of the computers everywhere you'd probably be shocked. There is only one place in my house where I have a computer that is not in use. My HTPC in my theater. In my opinion, it's pointless and I haven't used it since I stacked.


There are so many variables and issues with HTPC especially considering the capability of stand alone players that I wonder why anyone would want to go this route anymore (except maybe in a few years when HD DVD/BD is perfected on the PC. Right now though, it's in infancy stage and has many issues.


Maybe I'm just to the point where I don't want to tweak anymore. I just want to watch.










Cliff


----------



## mark haflich

Thanks for the explanations Terry. Your a good guy and I appreciate your efforts.it.


Several points. I didn't know anything about the scaler you would be using in Mark Connors system.


With respect to William. he asked me if he could borrow the lumagen for the meet. I didn't push it on him. He called me today and said he wouldn't be using it at the meet. So obviously you all are on rhe same page now. That's good.


For what its worth, the scaling on the Lumagen is much much better than on the DVDO. ringing scaling bothers me. 1080i film deinterlacing is about the same but some differences depending on the cadance. Re video, sort of a mixed bag. Each does well but pefection and video deinterlacing are not synomonous. I've owned both scalers.


I have decided for a bunch of reasons to dump my CRT and switch to digital. I can't tell you how many private emails about people switching for the same or many of the same reasons as me. I've had it with the existing CRT infrastructure and it is getting worse and worse. my intent is not to hurt or disparage anybody but I've had it. Enough.


Plug it in, Install it correctly, calibrate it and enjoy. I'll be doing a digital stack, all by myself. With vertical lens shift and stacking brackets readily available fed by a nice non ringing video processor with two hdmi outputs and as many sources as I want. Now not later. Gamma correction to maintain the black levels from a single projector just like one days in a CRT stack.


If something breaks, just ship it off.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11748471
> 
> 
> Couple of things.
> 
> 
> Why would you even bother with the 360 for HD DVD playback? Second, are you guys really still wanting to tweak out an HTPC for HD DVD? The second generation HD DVD players are awesome. Hell, the first were as well, but I know the importance to M and W wanting to run 72hz/24FPS for film so first gen is out. 2nd gen once again though are most excellent players.
> 
> 
> Blue Ray as well has come into it's own and even a player like the PS3 ranks up with the absolute best and it's been out for a year now. Both BD and HD now have 24fps capability which is perfect for what William and Mike are trying to accomplish.
> 
> 
> Speaking of 16:9 aspect usage, this is where I feel it's even more important to have a processor like the VP50 in the mix. Full aspect control with excellent deinterlacing (if needed), test patterns, HDMI switching, component inputs, etc. The list goes on and on.
> 
> 
> If all William will be using the system for is watching video/film, why not keep it simple and use stand alone sources with a processor? The VP50 will also PASS a 1080P/24 signal if I'm not mistaken if needed.
> 
> 
> Another thing I think about in regards to the system is Audio as well. I recently upgraded to the Pioneer Elite 94 receiver and now have Dolby True HD and DTS MA capability as well as uncompressed PCM from Blue Ray. My entire system to my ISS switcher is now HDMI. I'm loving it. The sound upgrade to the better formats is much more than minute.
> 
> 
> You know I'm a computer guy and if you came to my house and saw all of the computers everywhere you'd probably be shocked. There is only one place in my house where I have a computer that is not in use. My HTPC in my theater. In my opinion, it's pointless and I haven't used it since I stacked.
> 
> 
> There are so many variables and issues with HTPC especially considering the capability of stand alone players that I wonder why anyone would want to go this route anymore (except maybe in a few years when HD DVD/BD is perfected on the PC. Right now though, it's in infancy stage and has many issues.
> 
> 
> Maybe I'm just to the point where I don't want to tweak anymore. I just want to watch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Man, I don't know what I would do without both you and Terry's help on this project.


Terry has been very helpful, because he's also operating as an integrator and has a system on hand that he's dealing with daily to find the best ways to make things their best. And he's been very kind to always share with me the things he has found so far.


You as well, has also been so mindful to stress your concern and offer your help to make this upcoming event it's best. And I don't want to leave out anyone else, especially Gino. Though some of you don't wear that Expert or experienced label. You all should somehow be giving an honorary degree for what you have learned, to include your willingness to always share what you've learned.


I just want you guys to know that you've put some extra wind beneath my wing on this project. I now feel I need to make it happen for us all.


These are the kind of things that make us CRT folk Special..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11748505
> 
> 
> I have decided for a bunch of reasons to dump my CRT and switch to digital. I can't tell you how many private emails about people switching for the same or many of the same reasons as me. I've had it with the existing CRT infrastructure and it is getting worse and worse. my intent is not to hurt or disparage anybody but I've had it. Enough.



Yes, without a doubt, you are doing the right thing. Now if you can just put your frustrations behind you and move on like some others before you. CRT is not for everyone, and for those of us who's staying with it. We're doing so for a lot of reasons, and ease of use is not a concern for us.


Besides still being the best image out there, it's also a hobby for most of us. And I've yet to find or know of a hobby, where the hobbyist goal is to do nothing at all to get and keep the hobby going.


And I'm not surprised that you're getting emails from previous CRT owners that have converted. For some reason, they too seem to not be able to move on. When if that day ever comes when I give up CRT for the next technology. I just want you CRT folk to know that I'll not walk out the door pissing back at ya. When CRT is over for me, it's just that simple, I'm gone.


no need for me to hang around where I don't have any interest. That reminds me of someone who starks (follows someone around without them knowing) their EX.


I'm dedicated to CRT. And let me be clear on what I mean here. It means that I believe CRT is still the best thing out there for me, and others as well. But not for everyone. I also believe it has the best color accuracy, and that's my biggest problem with these latest digitals. There's definately something wrong with the colors. Some colors are bold and bright while other come out muted and pasted looking. Well anyway, that's something you already know well. And since you watch 99% sports, accurate CRT like colors is a non issue.


Oh, and so that it's also clear. if you've notice. I don't sell myself as a calibrator or someone who''' come out to your house and fix your CRT projector. It's not that it's something that I wont do, or have not been doing. It's something that i don't have on my agenda of things to do. I've been saying for the past 5 or 6 years, it's not something I want to do. now i have few few folk that I do make this happen for. But there are those folk who has been very understanding with me during the very difficult time when my family and I were out of the house, as well, they understand that i have many other things going on, so they can either fix their own problem with my and others help, or wait until I'm able to get to them. These people are special to me, because they have labored with me in understanding, and that's important to me, so I'm commited to being their tech If they can except me as me.


I've also made it clear that I have been restructuring things here for more commercial work. So my shop has had a face lift and redesign.


And the system at Williams is also going to be one of my systems, so I'll also participate in keeping it going. It's going to be a place that I can get away from the very stressful commercial commitments and chill out in Middleburg with William, Chery and Ashley for a day or so of movie watching on another level, that's where my second HT system is..


----------



## overclkr

Ok guys, Arli and I are confirmed along with possible Don Kellogg as well. STRIKE UP THE BBQ!!!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

I gotta find a new bunch of strippers. The last bunch is still recovering and now that newly single stud Arli is coming.


----------



## damon

If my friend Haflich will confirm that there is a dance pole I willl visit your HT.

That is my policy!!


----------



## mark haflich

Have Pole, Will Travel Whoops. That's Cliffy's line.


Mark C. Does the HT have to be working for you to visit?


I think the key here is Working Girls vs Working HT. Its far far easier to have working girls and far far cheaper. Of courde there are things a girl can't do that a working HT can or is it be the other way around.


----------



## Ridebreck

Mark (C not H), you may want to ALSO confirm who will be using said pole....unless you're planning on putting on a show for Cliff or something.


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11790188
> 
> 
> Ok guys, Arli and I are confirmed along with possible Don Kellogg as well. STRIKE UP THE BBQ!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



We're smokin' and tokin'







!!! I'm ready big dog.


Now, we need to get a "latest 'n greatest" update from William and Mike. Is the blending ready? My blender is ready for margaritas.










Pissed that I missed Art's meet; looks like it was a blast.


wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11805609
> 
> 
> We're smokin' and tokin'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!! I'm ready big dog.
> 
> 
> Now, we need to get a "latest 'n greatest" update from William and Mike. Is the blending ready? My blender is ready for margaritas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pissed that I missed Art's meet; looks like it was a blast.
> 
> 
> wallace




It was AWESOME!!! Best meet he's had since he started having meets.










Hehehehehe, he said tokin'


















Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ridebreck* /forum/post/11802339
> 
> 
> Mark (C not H), you may want to ALSO confirm who will be using said pole....unless you're planning on putting on a show for Cliff or something.



Unless Mark has a C cup, I'm not watching!!!!!!!


----------



## wallace1234

Ok, I just got word that there will be some cool stuff going on this weekend at Blendzilla Part Deaux!


From what I am hearing, it's gonna WOW ya'!


sneak peek?


wallace


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11818446
> 
> 
> Ok, I just got word that there will be some cool stuff going on this weekend at Blendzilla Part Deaux!
> 
> 
> From what I am hearing, it's gonna WOW ya'!
> 
> 
> sneak peek?
> 
> 
> wallace



Oh yeah!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11825774
> 
> 
> Oh yeah!



Did you have to make it bad enough to sneak that in?










Spill the beans damnit!










Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

So Curt... you coming? If you need, I can always call some of the people that owe you money posing as your son and complain that you haven't been able to feed me for 4 days. That should do the trick







.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11829355
> 
> 
> 
> Spill the beans damnit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Ok, here goes..


The two Marquees has had their initial setup to the point that the only now needed is the sources to be in place for the finals.


So far we have both RGBHV and HDMI to Moome card input going into the two Marquees from the 8022.


Thursday night we tried an HK-Fury as the input from the Bru-Ray player's HDMI out to its DVI input, with the Fury plugged directly into the HD-15 input of the 8022.


We also have a Sony Direct TV box that has DVI and RGBHV out on the system. We've previously tried the RGBHV out before the last meet but was not happy with it, so we left that alone. This time we had the Sony box connected using its DVI out directly into the DVI input of the 8022.


With the DVI input of the Sony box on OTA TV signals, it presented the reference we need for the Blu-Ray/Fury combo, when it should have been the other way around.


The Sony box via DVI to DVI into the 8022 was the kicker on Thursday night. The Blu-Ray/Fury combo has some issues with color space, and switching from 0-255 to 16-235 helped, but it's still there. Don't get me wrong, the image is OK, but it's not where it should be. And that's from my reference of having the same Blu-Ray player/Moome on my 8500, and seeing what's going on with the Sony box.


From this, I've concluded that a straight digital path into and out of the 8022 is the best way to go.


I would not recommend RGBHV input on the 8022 if being converted from DVI, If you really want to see the 8022 perform to its best. Not sure If there are or would be some RGBHV sources that would not create the problem that I saw, but from my experience with these issues and DVI, and for an high end device like the 8022 and what it'll be used in - don't even bother to use the RGBHV being converted from DVI.


We have something on the way (or coming), that should solve that, but until it reaches us, we're not going to discuss it further.


And yes, once again, we've made a few more changes to the video chain, but mostly the neck boards. And this time it's more obvious.


The projectors are no where near being setup properly. But with the DVI to DVI connection from the Sony box, we watched an evening news program that was SD. It was like looking at a 19" monitor, it was so crisp and sharp.


Friday morning a played around with the Blu-ray player and put the other set of revised boards into the right projector... Oh, I forgot to mention that we started with the revised boards only being put into left projector. and that is how we were able to see how much difference the revised boards were making.


I watched a bit of Casino Royal and a few other sections of other Blu-Ray DVD's. No question, I'm going to have to upgrade to 9" tubes. I'm thinking the sharpness I'm seeing coming out of this blend setup may be because of the lenses (HFQ-900). Or maybe it's because of the tubes being higher resolution that what i have in my 8500. but whatever it is, I want it. I can't get that same level of sharpness from my 8500 and i have the same revised video chain, and was using a Moome card direct from the Blu-Ray player.


The more intense image that I was also able to get on my 8500 is now also on that blend system (the left right w/wo PJ comparison confirmed that).


Yep, we hope to Wow ya..


----------



## Chuchuf

Nice work Mike,

I am almost of the opinion that for the 8022 you want to avoid any D/A or A/D in that box.

You are better off either sending it RGBHV and then staying in RGBHV up to the PJ's OR being in the digital domain prior to the 8022 and staying there through to the PJ's.


Terry


----------



## overclkr

Sweet. I've read the issues with the Fury. Were you able to feed it 1080P Mike?


As far as color space, that is an easy fix.










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11829778
> 
> 
> We also have a Sony Direct TV box that has DVI and RGBHV out on the system. We've previously tried the RGBHV out before the last meet but was not happy with it, so we left that alone. This time we had the Sony box connected using its DVI out directly into the DVI input of the 8022.
> 
> 
> With the DVI input of the Sony box on OTA TV signals, it presented the reference we need for the Blu-Ray/Fury combo, when it should have been the other way around.



Part of the issue is Direct TV reduces the resolution of HD broadcasts down to "HD Lite"...

1920x1080i is downsampled to 1440x1080i or 1280x1080i so D* can squeeze more channels into less bandwidth...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Lite 


OTA HD avoids this extra compression (except for WETA PBS HD which is bandwidth starved and 5.1 is cut to 2.0 even OTA).


I'm surprised that Wm can get OTA out here in the boonies... does he have an outdoor antenna or was he using QAM?


----------



## damon

Clarence,


Is this still true with the new sats they launched & mpeg4? Sure that it is but wanted confirmation.


----------



## NautikaL

Do you guys need me to bring any HD-DVDs? I have:

Batman Begins

Blazing Saddles

Constantine

The Departed

Heroes Season 1

The Italian Job

King Kong

The Last Samurai

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow

Seabiscuit

U-571


P.S. Terry, I sent you an email yesterday. I know you're busy, but please respond







.


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11831773
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> Is this still true with the new sats they launched & mpeg4? Sure that it is but wanted confirmation.



I just saw it someplace else also. they down res the 1920 to 1440 0r 1280 like Clarence said. I dont think dish network does this i am not sure if there is way to set the recivers to pass the signal untouched like some cable boxes out there can.


Athanasios


----------



## JBJR




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11831773
> 
> 
> Clarence,
> 
> 
> Is this still true with the new sats they launched & mpeg4? Sure that it is but wanted confirmation.



Hi Guys, just back from Colorado! From what I've seen posted on this it is no longer the case on the mpeg-4 stuff.

William I'll get that xbox out tomorrow to you. It's all ready, sorry about that! Mike, i'll give you a call soon!


John


----------



## mp20748

Colorado. Now that's one spots I've wanted to visit for a long time. it's has been high on my list for a many years. I'll never forget being at Fort Dix waiting to shipped overseas, and this hard head group just back from where we were going was telling us about the sights overseas, but he put them second to being stationed up high in the mountains of Colorado in a communications outfit. For the days before we separated going our two different directions, all they talked about was Colorado, and that was after being overseas for years.


Anyway. I'm working on a Marquee switcher for a second input option, because I want to put a Moome card in it to feed to the 8022 (Blendzilla).


----------



## wallace1234

OK, so let's get this party rocking!!!

Again, from what I am hearing, this is gonna WOW ya'!


Good food, good drink, good company, let's get some folks signed signed up here.


William is up to his rear-end in work, so he hasn't had time to post.


And, MP is working his rear-end off to get this in the "top shelf" rating.


wallace


----------



## overclkr

Mmmmmmmm...... BBQ, friends, liquor, kick ass picture.


Perfect combination!


Is my DAD Terry coming out?


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11849329
> 
> 
> MP is working his rear-end off to get this in the "top shelf" rating.
> 
> 
> wallace





Yep, I worked on that Marquee switcher today. It wasn't easy, but I got it to go the FULL 1920x1080P @ 72hz, and that was on my lowly 8500 - Yippee!


It's a zoomed in image..

*Smpte 1920x1080P @ 72hz from PC card through Marquee switcher*


----------



## mark haflich

Barbeque, friends, liquor, kick ass picture, but not wthout a test pattern screen shot. But look at them blacks.i


----------



## mp20748

Did someone say blacks?


----------



## mark haflich

Less than 11 days before the meet. Be interesting to hear what's left to do.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11856508
> 
> 
> Less than 11 days before the meet. Be interesting to hear what's left to do.



We're waiting on a few things to happen still, and even without them, we're still prepared to move forward.


----------



## mark haflich

Thanks for sharing all that information with us.







Why even bother to respond?


I wasn't asking in the wise ass way I was answered.










My simple question was what's left to do?


Wise ass gets as wise ass does.


Let's see. I'll translate.


We haven't finished yet. We are waiting on other things or people to happen. But if they don't happen, we are still going to have a fantastic blend show at Mr Kosman's.


----------



## overclkr

You two crack me up man.


Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

Here comes another drama fest...


I think this is a better translation..."Mother, everything is fine... just don't worry about it."


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11859458
> 
> 
> Let's see. I'll translate.
> 
> 
> We haven't finished yet. We are waiting on other things or people to happen. But if they don't happen, we are still going to have a fantastic blend show at Mr Kosman's.



Well, that's a pretty good translation there Mark. I couldn't have said it better..


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11860159
> 
> 
> Well, that's a pretty good translation there Mark. I couldn't have said it better..


----------



## dropzone7

Dam, I would really love to make this meet but I have some conflicts that weekend. It would be so cool to meet all of you guys. I met Clarence once but I have pretty much bugged the dog **** out of him ever since!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11860701
> 
> 
> I met Clarence once but I have pretty much bugged the dog **** out of him ever since!



Don't worry... we all do







. I think he is the forum's resident noobie trainer/screen reviewer/source tester.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11860159
> 
> 
> Well, that's a pretty good translation there Mark. I couldn't have said it better..


----------



## wallace1234

This is going to be great! One of my best memories from last time was listening to Mark and Mike communicate (or translate)..










Can't wait!


wallace


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11862112
> 
> 
> This is going to be great! One of my best memories from last time was listening to Mark and Mike communicate (or translate)..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait!
> 
> 
> wallace










Does anyone remember the conversation about the pebbles?


----------



## mark haflich

I don't and I am serious. I really don't remember.


And Clarence, like Cliffy and myself, is a degeraate.


At the party, its OK to look at my er Ferrari but please don't touch.


And Cliffy, it is not, I repeat, it is not a place to have a private party with one, let alone two, of the strippers.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11862134
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone remember the conversation about the pebbles?



I remember this one..










A customer has several small bowls setting on his floor near or around his speakers. In those bowls are water with pebbles setting at the bottom.


The customer was asked, what are those bowls setting on the floor. The customer responds saying they improve the sound coming from the speakers.


And then the customer says, here take a seat I'll demo it for you. So after a while following a blind test (blind folders on) that involved the bowls being in place, and then being removed. It was confirmed that the bowls placed on the floor with the pebbles and water really improved the sound coming from the speakers..
























Now I was not present for this, so I can only go by what I've heard from some one else.


Now, I've been to customers houses where I've seen something or the other that was strange like this. Things that kept the speaker wires from touching the floor to stuff you spray onto connectors... I too have heard these claims, but when they make them, for some reason, It frustrates me to listen to them explain this stuff. And I would never waste ten seconds of time on a test to confirm.


It reminds me of the old clip of the guy standing at the bus stop looking up and saying the sky is falling. And people look up and see nothing, but continue to look up because the guy continues to look up.


Some things don't require scientific reasoning or testing to prove... what ever happened to good ole fashion common sense reasoning?


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11863480
> 
> 
> I remember this one..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A customer has several small bowls setting on his floor near or around his speakers. In those bowls are water with pebbles setting at the bottom.
> 
> 
> The customer was asked, what are those bowls setting on the floor. The customer responds saying they improve the sound coming from the speakers.
> 
> 
> And then the customers, here take a seat I'll demo it for you. So after a while following a blind test (blind folders on) that involved the bowls being in place, and then being removed. It was confirmed that the bowls placed on the floor with the pebbles and water really improved the sound coming from the peakers..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> : rolleyes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I was not present for this, so I can only go by what I've heard from some one else.
> 
> 
> Now, I've been to customers houses where I've seem something or the other that was strange like this. Things that kept the speaker wires from touching the floor to stuff you spray onto connectors... I too have heard these claims, but when they make them, for some reason, It frustrates me to listen to them explain this stuff. And I would never waste ten seconds of time on a test to confirm.
> 
> 
> It reminds me of the old clip of the guy standing at the bus stop looking up and saying the sky is falling. And people look up and see nothing, but continue to look up because the guy continues to look up.
> 
> 
> Some things don't require scientific reasoning or testing to prove... what ever happened to good ole fashion common sense reasoning?



lol I'm telling you Mike...you're in the wrong business. Audio is where the $$$ is at. Just go buy some copper cables, stuff the cable with some "premium high quality cotton from a remote island in the Caribbean", use some "enhanced metal alloy" developed specifically for your cables to go inbetween the cotton and the copper cable, and finally cover it with audiophile quality plastic. Cost, 1$ a foot, sell for $50 a foot







.


Oh, and sell those pebbles too







.


----------



## dropzone7

AEP "Acoustic Enhancement Pebbles"


1. Harvest rocks from your backyard.


2. Place in rock tumbler for 2 days to create nice polish and shine.


3. Wash with expensive spring water.


4. Dry with Egyptian cotton towels.


5. Separate pebbles into groups of 12.


6. Place pebbles into small silk sack with rope tie.


7. Apply price tag of $49.99/dozen.


----------



## mark haflich

There were no pebbles in the bowls! That's why I didn't remember. There were bowls of water and then later in the demonstration there were ice cubes added to the bowls. There was nothing special about the bowls or ice cubes. Nothing was being marketed marketed for you withsnake oil phoebias. I was the person doing the listening and it was a manufacturer or rather importer doing the demo for me at his house in Virginia . Another demo was done using pebbles in small pill bottles placed in the rear corners of the room. These were being sold by someone but not the person doing the demo. He was not financially invoved ith the person selling them. He was a purchaser.


Rather than making fun of something that you think just can't be because it doesn't fit the limited knoweledge or science base that you or others might have, man will never fly Mike, man will never get to the moon, you ought to try these tests and listen instead of taking screen shots and posting them.


I have heard the results of these tweaks in a blind testing situation. I have no doubt of how they affected the sounds that I heard, I don't have a scientific explanation of how they worked either, but I ave no doubt there was one. Becauses you and others, including my self, can't explain something, it can't be. Right. Heh Heh. Right. Who are the small minded idiots here. uze are the idiots, small minded scientific bigots. Not me.


A cap is a cap until you study caps and identify factors in their design and construction that can affect the sound of a circuit. Well I don't know why the bowls of water, ice, and pill bottles made a difference (a hugh improvement) but they did. And to me that's a fact. You and others here might laugh, it can't be, you all agree. You agree because you hven't done the tests and observed and you and other miniscule knowledge base comclud t can't be. But you are scientific bgots. It is boys but I and my miniscule knowledge base can't explain it either.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11863584
> 
> 
> There were no pebbles in the bowls! That's why I didn't remember. There were bowls of water and then later in the demonstration there was ice cubes added to the bowls. I was the person doing the listening and it was a manufacturer or rather importer doing the demo for me at his house in Virginia . Another demo was done using pebbles in small pill bottles placed in the rear corners of the room.
> 
> 
> Rather than making fun of something that you think just can't be because it doesn't fit the limited knoweledge or science base that you or others might have, man will never fly Mike, man will never get to the moon, you ought to try these tests and listen instead of taking screen shots and posting them.
> 
> 
> I have heard the results of these tweaks in a blind testing situation. I have no doubt of how they affected the sounds that I heard, I don't have a scientific explanation of how they worked. Becauses you and others, including my self, can't explain something, it can't be. Heh Heh. Right. Who are the small minded idiots here.
> 
> 
> A cap is a cap until you study caps and identify factors in their design and construction that can affect the sound of a circuit. Well I don't know why the bowls of water, ice, and pill bottles made a difference (a hugh improvement) but they did. And to me that's a fact. You and others here might laugh, it can't be, you all agree. You agree because you hven't done the tests and observed and you and other miniscule knowledge base comclud t can't be. But you are scientific bgots. It is boys but I and my miniscule knowledge base can't explain it either.



So does this mean that I can mark you down for two dozen?


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11863584
> 
> 
> There were no pebbles in the bowls! That's why I didn't remember. There were bowls of water and then later in the demonstration there were ice cubes added to the bowls. There was nothing special about the bowls or ice cubes. Nothing was being marketed marketed for you withsnake oil phoebias. I was the person doing the listening and it was a manufacturer or rather importer doing the demo for me at his house in Virginia . Another demo was done using pebbles in small pill bottles placed in the rear corners of the room. These were being sold by someone but not the person doing the demo. He was not financially invoved ith the person selling them. He was a purchaser.
> 
> 
> Rather than making fun of something that you think just can't be because it doesn't fit the limited knoweledge or science base that you or others might have, man will never fly Mike, man will never get to the moon, you ought to try these tests and listen instead of taking screen shots and posting them.
> 
> 
> I have heard the results of these tweaks in a blind testing situation. I have no doubt of how they affected the sounds that I heard, I don't have a scientific explanation of how they worked either, but I ave no doubt there was one. Becauses you and others, including my self, can't explain something, it can't be. Right. Heh Heh. Right. Who are the small minded idiots here. uze are the idiots, small minded scientific bigots. Not me.
> 
> 
> A cap is a cap until you study caps and identify factors in their design and construction that can affect the sound of a circuit. Well I don't know why the bowls of water, ice, and pill bottles made a difference (a hugh improvement) but they did. And to me that's a fact. You and others here might laugh, it can't be, you all agree. You agree because you hven't done the tests and observed and you and other miniscule knowledge base comclud t can't be. But you are scientific bgots. It is boys but I and my miniscule knowledge base can't explain it either.


----------



## mark haflich

For two dozen what? Can I mark you down as a sientific biggot? Don't answer. I already have.


----------



## mark haflich

Speak right up Art. If you have something to say, say it.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11864097
> 
> 
> For two dozen what? Can I mark you down as a sientific biggot? Don't answer. I already have.




Had your coffee yet?


----------



## mark haflich

Yes. You made the sarcastic post looking for mass acceptance. If most of the world in the past thought the world is flat, it must be so.


----------



## dropzone7

Sorry, it was a failed attempt at humor I suppose. Crawling back under my rock now...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11863584
> 
> 
> There were bowls of water and then later in the demonstration there were ice cubes added to the bowls





> Quote:
> Another demo was done using pebbles in small pill bottles placed in the rear corners of the room



Say what you want Mark, but this just plain whacky.


----------



## damon

I know William is an HTPC guy, is that going to be the 72hz source?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11864913
> 
> 
> I know William is an HTPC guy, is that going to be the 72hz source?



The 8022 will be doing the 72hz. And it'll be doing it from any source regardless of the input resolution.


HTPC will be a part of Williams system, but not necessarily a part of the meet.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11864118
> 
> 
> Speak right up Art. If you have something to say, say it.



Not much to say about that Mark except that I'm a scientist. Therefore it's not my job to disprove such claims it's your job to prove them. Science has done an incredible job in last couple of hundred years to explain our world extraordinarily well so I'm going with it.


I think my sitting here being skeptical of claims like the one you made is healthy. I know me holding a half empty wine glass in my hand sitting in my theater the music sounds so much better but ,as one of my mentors would say, when hearing hoof beats look first for horses then zebras. Your experience sounds like a very, very strong placebo effect to me, nothing more.


Art


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11865988
> 
> 
> Not much to say about that Mark except that I'm a scientist. Therefore it's not my job to disprove such claims it's your job to prove them. Science has done an incredible job in last couple of hundred years to explain our world extraordinarily well so I'm going with it.
> 
> 
> I think my sitting here being skeptical of claims like the one you made is healthy. I know me holding a half empty wine glass in my hand sitting in my theater the music sounds so much better but ,as one of my mentors would say, when hearing hoof beats look first for horses then zebras. Your experience sounds like a very, very strong placebo effect to me, nothing more.
> 
> 
> Art



You better duck for cover Art.







I'm still picking the buckshot out of my arse after poking fun at Mark's pebble story. If I had known he was really serious I would not have joked about it.


----------



## Belcherwm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11864484
> 
> 
> Sorry, it was a failed attempt at humor I suppose. Crawling back under my rock now...



You mean your pebbles?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Belcherwm* /forum/post/11866803
> 
> 
> You mean your pebbles?



Exactly!


----------



## mark haflich

I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## NautikaL

Mark,


We aren't really denying that there was a difference... we're more being sceptical. Let's step back for a second and think about this. Saying that small bowls with water and/or ice affect sound quality in a room is like saying moving a 2 pound weight in a car from the front to the back noticeably affects handling (the differences are minute in both cases). Scientifically speaking, there will be changes in both instances that can be picked up by instruments - the bowls will change how the sound travels around the room, and the 2 pound weight in the car will change the car's center of gravity. We're merely doubting whether you're sensitive enough to be able to detect such differences, and if you are, you must have amazing ears. Regardless, in my opinion, audio is more complicated and harder to compare than video, which is why double blind tests are needed. Minute changes in the listening environment and/or audio setup will change the sound - the only thing is if the changes are detectable by human ears.


Anyways, back to poking fun at Mark







.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11867210
> 
> 
> I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.



Hey, I never called your qualifications or knowledge of anything into question as you did with me, calling me an idiot, bigot, ignorant, etc. I just thought the story was funny. Seriously, lighten up.







If audio is your business as you say then you would do well to understand that being defensive about your product is a big turn off to potential customers. Of course, that is why scientists do science and salesmen sell. I have seen engineers trying to sell a product and it's not pretty.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11867210
> 
> 
> I was the observer. None of you were there butyou are all quick to say it can't be. I am an engineer and my degree was in science. I have absolutely no financial interest in these tweaks, I heard them. Repeated several times, So laugh all you want. But I am a very qualified listener. Audio is my business. If you have a decent two channel system you could try the three bowls of water, with and without ice for yourself. But better to just post your idiocy. All of you. Ignorance is bliss.



I'm not laughing,but I am expressing my opinion just as you have. I'm not saying what you experienced wasn't real just that ,based on the laws of physics ,it's much more likely to be due to a placebo effect that was strong enough under the circumstances. Placebo is real , like the immediate healing effect experienced by just being at the doctor that I've personally experienced many time, but it can't be explained by actual physical changes which would have required the most basic laws of physics to be wrong but instead by a very effective power of suggestion.



Art


----------



## nashou66

What size bowls did they use ? I'm going to try it now!


But i must say when sitting in my jaccuzzi tub listening to my in wall speakers in the master bath it does sound great....but i always attributed it to me being realaxed and enjoying the soak.


Ps. it sounded great when the jaccuzzi jets were off.









Athanasios


----------



## mark haflich

??? Art. I was at a manufacturers house. a friend who lived near me. We were sitting listening to his speakers (he didn't make them but they were made by some OEM company in China. I asked him what was the bowl of water sitting in front of and between the speakers. That started it off with three bowls were better than one and then watch what happens when you add ice. I suggested that I go blind. I got blind folded. He would walk around removing or bring back the bowls, with or without ice. After each listen, I would observe what the bowl situation was when I was listening. I would tell him what the effects I was hearing. He would write it down for me since I was blindfolded. I could identify repeat4edly the effects and their aassociation to the bowl changes. 12 out of 12. Then we did it removing or addding the pill bottles of peoples from the rear corners of the froom. He would go basxck into the corners while I was blind folded and either leave the bottles or remove them or bring them back. I would identify the sound changes (here limited to the bass). 10 out of 10 here, dramatic.


No placebo. No suggestions. I couldn't tell when he went behind me whether he left, brought, or removed the two tiny bottles. After each listen. I would observe the bottle status.


I don't think any of this was a pl;acebo. Ah. When you awaken from your sleep you will remember great sex. Ya right.


----------



## mark haflich

Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11869558
> 
> 
> Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.



Aahhh; speaking of chili, thats going to be one of the food items for this meet. But, no beans!!! (the ht is too small for a bunch of folks that just ate beans to be sitting around in







....)


wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11869672
> 
> 
> Aahhh; speaking of chili, thats going to be one of the food items for this meet. But, no beans!!! (the ht is too small for a bunch of folks that just ate beans to be sitting around in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....)
> 
> 
> wallace



Are you kidding me? Chili is NOT chili unless it has BOTH red kidney beans and chili beans.


YOUR GROUNDED!










Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11869558
> 
> 
> Small chili bowls. I wonder who is going to win the chili bowl this year? I think Michigan is going to be playing in it.



Harsh,harsh !










Art


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11869030
> 
> 
> ??? Art. I was at a manufacturers house. a friend who lived near me. We were sitting listening to his speakers (he didn't make them but they were made by some OEM company in China. I asked him what was the bowl of water sitting in front of and between the speakers. That started it off with three bowls were better than one and then watch what happens when you add ice. I suggested that I go blind. I got blind folded. He would walk around removing or bring back the bowls, with or without ice. After each listen, I would observe what the bowl situation was when I was listening. I would tell him what the effects I was hearing. He would write it down for me since I was blindfolded. I could identify repeat4edly the effects and their aassociation to the bowl changes. 12 out of 12. Then we did it removing or addding the pill bottles of peoples from the rear corners of the froom. He would go basxck into the corners while I was blind folded and either leave the bottles or remove them or bring them back. I would identify the sound changes (here limited to the bass). 10 out of 10 here, dramatic.
> 
> 
> No placebo. No suggestions. I couldn't tell when he went behind me whether he left, brought, or removed the two tiny bottles. After each listen. I would observe the bottle status.
> 
> 
> I don't think any of this was a pl;acebo. Ah. When you awaken from your sleep you will remember great sex. Ya right.



Is thus Feng Shui ?


Art


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11868889
> 
> 
> What size bowls did they use ? I'm going to try it now!



you're kidding right??


----------



## mark haflich

If someone tries it and finds it makes an improvement, MP's belief system would be shaken. He is fragile enough without any additional stress from us. Maybe we shouldn't disturb MP's psyche until he finishes the work needed for the meet next Saturday.


Cliffy. Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS. Usually in that case it would be better labeled BEANS with chili. Perhaps I will have my wife cook up some beans for you and you can add them to the Chili and thus you can have your Beans with Chili.


Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11870821
> 
> 
> If someone tries it and finds it makes an improvement, MP's belief system would be shaken



Don't worry Mark. The odds of there being one more person on earth that could possibly experience some change in a sound system, from simply placing bowls, pebbles and pill bottles on the floor would have the same odds of happening as it would with hitting a billion dollar lottery.


That would make you unique..


----------



## damon

Why doesn't someone check & see if JVB will offer up a sample HD-SDI outputting

HD-DVD or Blu Ray player for this event? Just in case Moome does not save the day.


----------



## dropzone7

That would make you unique..[/quote]


Oh, I would definitely say he is unique.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11870991
> 
> 
> Why doesn't someone check & see if JVB will offer up a sample HD-SDI outputting
> 
> HD-DVD or Blu Ray player for this event? Just in case Moome does not save the day.



Moome doesn't need to save the day.










Cliffy


----------



## damon

I can learn all I need to know about water & pebbles in front of speakers by perusing the Blend meet thread & not a damn thing about anything pertinent to the event. Exasperating!!


How is the chain going to be all digital & when did AWay provide the ability for the 8022 to do 72hz. For the rest of this BS I would just assume go watch the E-channel.


----------



## overclkr

The 8022 outputs [email protected] and [email protected] Always has.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11870821
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy. Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS. Usually in that case it would be better labeled BEANS with chili. Perhaps I will have my wife cook up some beans for you and you can add them to the Chili and thus you can have your Beans with Chili.
> 
> 
> Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.



LOL. Tell your wife to hook me up with the beans then.










As far as the 5B's, perfect analogy!
























Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Mark. Cut it out. There will be a great of picture from two CRT projectors blended in the center. What source and how it got there is not important. It will be brighter than from a single CRT but not as bright as from dmmest bulb projector. We will all say look at them blacks. Digital can't do that. There will be excuses why everthing that needed to get done didn't get done and we will all look forward to the spring meet to see the finished product and an even better picture. BTW We will all have a geat time.


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11870821
> 
> 
> Chili does and should not contain beans. When beans are used to cut the meat and the costs of preparation, the product is labeled Chili WITH BEANS.



AMEN Mark!

Beans beans, good for your heart; the more you eat, the more you fart.



> Quote:
> Cliffy is so simple. A 5Bs kind of guy. Beer, bullets, beans, and broads. And the 5th B? Look at them BLACKS.



Nothing wrong with them B's, but I might want to switch boobs for beans.











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How is the chain going to be all digital & when did AWay provide the ability for the 8022 to do 72hz.



MP or William, your up.


wallace


----------



## mark haflich

Actually he's also an ass man.


----------



## overclkr

Ah yes, the good old days. Almost 1 year ago now I put the old G90 stack through it's paces with the 8022. Serious props go to Tim Martin for helping me make it happen.










11ft Wide SMX Screen, G90's @1024P/60hz:















































I'm 100% confident that the image will look just as good at William's place. The light output will not be quite as strong, but damn dude, 12ft wide. Killer.










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy. Are these shots from the 5th Element?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11871756
> 
> 
> Cliffy. Are these shots from the 5th Element?



Nope, those are from the new HD DVD "Debbie does Dallas, AGAIN".


----------



## mark haflich

Reportedly the BluRay version is much better. The additional storage capability of that format allow multiple layers some of which have been used for clips of Debby and her friends with multiple layers of garments removed.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11871119
> 
> 
> I can learn all I need to know about water & pebbles in front of speakers by perusing the Blend meet thread & not a damn thing about anything pertinent to the event. Exasperating!!
> 
> 
> How is the chain going to be all digital & when did AWay provide the ability for the 8022 to do 72hz. For the rest of this BS I would just assume go watch the E-channel.



All of this has already been covered in this thread, so that may explain why we're just joking around. The 8022 being able to do 72hz is well known, and was always in its menu from what I can recall.


This event has had several people other than myself and William involved. So there's a lot going on in the background, and I prefer to keep it that way for now. I don't want to discuss too much of what we're doing, or who's trying to help out - It's a we thing.. So any discussions we're having with anyone in their hopes of helping us out, is being kept off this thread, and may remain that way until the day of the event.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11865988
> 
> 
> Not much to say about that Mark except that I'm a scientist. Therefore it's not my job to disprove such claims it's your job to prove them. Science has done an incredible job in last couple of hundred years to explain our world extraordinarily well so I'm going with it.
> 
> 
> Art



This stuff cannot be proven, and there will never be any scientific support for it. it's simply nothing more than nonsense.


I don't have a problem with people and their beliefs, be it religious or other wise. The problem that I have is when folk get upset you for not accepting or believing in something that just sounds stupid. I have some beliefs that I know could be a problem for some, because a belief is not a fact. And some folk want facts. And with out facts or proof that something is or does what it claims to do, who wants to keep hearing about it.


I have a very good understanding of sound and acoustics. I have a sound kit (spectrum analyzer, B&K and other reference mics, Laptop audio analzer, and other pro sound level meters and stuff). and I get to calibrate very complex sound reinforcement systems, and I also have the training to do so. I understand how temperature can effect sound. And how a room can be hard or soft, and how materials in a room can effect the sound. and I've had to work around some very complex objects in acoustical environments.


I know many are sensitive about these claims, but I don't understand why they are so adamant to defend something that can't be proven.


When I'm told about some of the things that make these changes, I start to wonder how they arrived at that... I picture myself setting down in front of very expensive speakers, and then find that something does not sound right. So I get up out of my seat and start putting things on the floor or on the walls and trying absolutely everything in the house, to include using Ice cubes..










It's not so much trying to prove that it works, it's also puzzles me how they got to that point.


So If I ever get to visit you Art, and we're listening to your system and you then get up from your seat and go into your kitchen and come back with an arm full of things from the kitchen and start placing them around your room.. Don't be surprised when you look around and I've left your room..


----------



## mp20748

So, even If we had to go back to analog and the Xbox HD-DVD. I hope the following screen-shots will show how much work has also went into making the analog output of the Xbox worthy to be used for this meet...


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11873723
> 
> 
> So If I ever get to visit you Art, and we're listening to your system and you then get up from your seat and go into your kitchen and come back with an arm full of things from the kitchen and start placing them around your room.. Don't be surprised when you look around and I've left your room..



Mike please come visit but you've got the wrong guy,if you see me go to the kitchen it will be to get a refill on my wine, not for pebbles,bowls of water or to see if my toast has an image of Christ on it.


Art


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11874150
> 
> 
> Mike please come visit but you've got the wrong guy,if you see me go to the kitchen it will be to get a refill on my wine, not for pebbles,bowls of water or to see if my toast has an image of Christ on it.
> 
> 
> Art










Art, if you find that toast let me know. I will place the Ebay add and we can split the take.


----------



## dropzone7

Mike, I like the 4th Kong picture above. I can clearly see the scars and cuts on his head and even around the blackness of his arm. No black crush there.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11874194
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art, if you find that toast let me know. I will place the Ebay add and we can split the take.




Will do !










Art


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/11874271
> 
> 
> Will do !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



maybe you should put that toast on a plate and place it in a corner in your theater first..


Oh, that's right, you don't believe in this stuff..


----------



## mp20748

another dark movie.

 

]


----------



## NautikaL

Is that Pitch Black or Chronicles of Riddick? Pitch Black was one of the weirdest movies I've seen in a long time...


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11881449
> 
> 
> Is that Pitch Black or Chronicles of Riddick? Pitch Black was one of the weirdest movies I've seen in a long time...



That one is Chronicles... I also have Pitch Black, and it's one of the worse.


I watched the whole movie and could never figure out what was going on..


----------



## nashou66




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11881531
> 
> 
> That one is Chronicles... I also have Pitch Black, and it's one of the worse.
> 
> 
> I watched the whole movie and could never figure out what was going on..



Mike you actually watched a whole movie?

















Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11882572
> 
> 
> Mike you actually watched a whole movie?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Athanasios



LOL. You would not believe how many movies I've actually watched over the past 5 years on my setup. I would guess about 30 at most, and most of them has been in that last 6 months.


Now I've seen parts and sections of many movies, and rarely had sound coming from any of them.


I purchased Pitch Black for image evaluation. When putting it in the player one day, it looked very interesting, and that compelled me to fire it up that same evening.


Turns out, after getting beyond the special effects of something else about the movie, nothing really happened or made connection to a story line or purpose for putting it together.


It would probably make better sense If it were made to highlight makeup, costumes and other things they use in a movies.


----------



## mark haflich

Its kind of scary to be in the same room with MP if he is watching an entire movie. He keeps mumbling something like lkatumblahks or amasooprohdomybaby lkatumblahks.


----------



## wkosmann

I'm baaaaaaaaaaack from lots of Texas road trips. I have been reading the riotous posts in the Meet thread, even though I haven't posted in a while. I'm hijacking my own thread, to bring it back on topic, just for a short time.


The Meet will *still* be on October 20th, Saturday, from about 1:00 PM until Cliffy and Clarence go to bed. Featured will be a 12 foot wide version of the image that Mike puts out on his lowly lowly 8" Marquee AC. Don has agreed to again provide barbeque (the details of which are his choice) and I will supply Dominion Pale Ale on tap to wash it down. Please post in this thread if you would like to come. The current attendees are:


Mike Parker and Patrice

John Barnes and SO

Don Wallace and Linda

Bill Belcher and Teresa

William Kosmann and Cheryl

Cliffy

Ashley the dog (who is not Cliffy's date)

Clarence

Arli (Bomrat), to keep Cliffy attended

Sokoloff

Mark Conner (?)

Ericglo?

Mark Haflich

Curt Palme (if somebody pays him. Would somebody please pay him?)

Terry?

Galen?

Nashou66 (Anthanasios)?

CRT Ben (Ben + Cheryl (?) + Ben Brother (?))

NautikaL + Friend Zac

Don Kellog (to help Arli mind Cliffy)


Would everyone who has a question mark after their name (that would be those who at some point posted an interest in coming to the Meet, but never really said one way or the other if they were actually coming) let me know in the thread if they are actually coming or not? The host, the wife of the host, and the master vitamin maker would like to know how many to prepare for.


And now, back to the Mark and Mike and Ciffy show...........


----------



## overclkr

Hi.










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11889519
> 
> 
> Curt Palme (if somebody pays him. Would somebody please pay him?)



I'll paypal $100 towards Curt's airfare, pick him up at the airport, feed him, and he can stay here. The guest rooms are already reserved, but we'll find room for Curt. Cliff doesn't need a bed... we stay up all night anyways.


Dominion Pale Ale on tap


----------



## NautikaL

Curt, don't forget my offer if you need someone to pay you











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11829364
> 
> 
> So Curt... you coming? If you need, I can always call some of the people that owe you money posing as your son and complain that you haven't been able to feed me for 4 days. That should do the trick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## bomrat

WHOOO WHOOO. so stoked, a couple days off. friends, food, beer. hopefully the friends arn't the food.


----------



## James McClellan

William,


Thanks for PMing me your address, but it looks like I'll be sitting this one out.







I've already cancelled my hotel and rental car reservations







. If it ain't one thing...


Anyway, the screenshot masters (Cliff and Clarence) will be there so I expect a plethora of screenshots. Have fun everyone. Wish I could make it.



James


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11890070
> 
> 
> I'll paypal $100 towards Curt's airfare, pick him up at the airport, feed him, and he can stay here. The guest rooms are already reserved, but we'll find room for Curt. Cliff doesn't need a bed... we stay up all night anyways.
> 
> 
> Dominion Pale Ale on tap



I'll throw in $50.00. His stories are worth that!










Curt, if you ever get tired of this stuff, go into story telling. Your a natural at it; seriously.


wallace


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/11891398
> 
> 
> WHOOO WHOOO. so stoked, a couple days off. friends, food, beer. hopefully the friends arn't the food.



Dam right!


wallace


----------



## mp20748

Today we played around with the blend setup. I did not want to get into all of the options and changes that we were looking at to make this happen, until we got to a place of knowing which way we would be going. Or what we'll actually be using at the meet.


So far, a straight digital path up to the projectors is now out. We now be going with an analog input into the 8022 (blend unit). An that would involve my Electrohome switcher, that would also include a Moome HDMI card (as shown below). That input we plan to use the Sony Blu-Ray player. And for HD-DVD's, we're looking at my Xbox 360 (also shown below) going directly into the Electrohome switcher.


For now, that's the plan, and that may change later, and would more likely have a scaler connected to the Moome card, with other inputs on the scaler for aspect control.


A lot of things are still being worked out, so this is a brief update on where we are.


Also, in considering the only DVI input on the 8022, we also feel that it may not be better than the analog option that we have to use, mainly because we not sure that the DVI section of the 8022 is of the later DVI chips, and if not, it may not be better than analog.


At present I'm testing the Moome card in the switcher. And so far, it looks really good. That card is not a plug and play in that switcher. It took me almost three hours to modify that switcher to work with the Moome card.


----------



## mark haflich

I wish that camera would break. These two photos add so much. Maybe a photo or two of the slot before the insertion? Anything to fill up bandwidth. I can hardly wait to see the outside of the switcher at the meet now that her backside with a Moome card inserted has been posted here for eternity.


----------



## overclkr

Hell, I think it looks pretty damn cool......


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

A picture of a Marquee switcher modified to pass 1080p and power a Moome card $$ whatever, the switcher modified to power two modified Moomes, priceless.


----------



## mp20748

That switcher/Moome card combo is it!


also with this combo, It's hard to see a difference between the Moome cards (HDMI to DVI connected to the 8022) being in slot 2 of the marquees, and the RGBHV feed out the 8022. So we're going to remove the two Moome cards from the Marquees and they will be used in the switcher for HDMI inputs for the 8022. The 8022 will then be feeding the two Marquees using RGBHV Belden 1694A.


This has been a work in progress. and with the latest findings, we're glad we did not go with the first and only source that was available at the time. the patience and extra work seems to have been the right way to go to get the best out of this setup so far.


Sometimes it's best to be picky..










On Friday the team will come together and we'll look at things further. and that is when we'll decide on the presentation for Saturday.


----------



## overclkr

Mikey,


HDMI to the possible scaler, HDMI to the moome, RGBHV to the 8022, and RGBHV to the Marquee's.


Perfect combination!































It's exactly the way I envisioned it.










This weekend is going to be f'ing incredible.










Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL

William,


You can scratch Zac off the list. And by the way, my name is Jeff







.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11889519
> 
> 
> Don Kellogg (to help Arli mind Cliffy)



Oh I like that he don't know me vary well do he, muhahaha.. I might have to drink this time then things will get really interesting.


Well I'm trying to make it might come down to the wire, project at work running long. Going to pay out the butt cheeks for the ticket but if I can make it I will.


Is anyone bringing midget stripers to this one? They fit nicely into over head storage I hear.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11904753
> 
> 
> Mikey,
> 
> 
> HDMI to the possible scaler, HDMI to the moome, RGBHV to the 8022, and RGBHV to the Marquee's.
> 
> 
> Perfect combination!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yep, and even without trying a stripper on the single DVI input on the 8022. No question, the way we have it now is the best. And I would not expect the DVI input to better with a stripper...


Here's my thoughts on this. The 8022 is an award winning switcher (see below). Without a doubt, it's does well producing a high quality image. But you'll have to use either HD-SDI (digital) or RGBHV (analog) for the best performance. Both HD-SDI and RGBHV are industrial/commercial grade broadcast quality rated video standards. While DVI is consumer only, and may not be the best for performance, and could never be used to rate the 8022. And because of the potential color space issues associated with DVI, it cannot meet or comply with the higher standards of RGBHV and HD-SDI. Which these problems are non existing.


However, with the later consumer digital standard (HDMI). The performance level for consumer digital has now been raised, and could possibly be at or very close to the level of the broadcast standards.


So let's not completely kick analog to curb yet..










Anyway, we're looking forward to the meet, and the fellowship with the folk that's coming out. And hope all is well with Don, because that BBQ is going to be a very important part of this affair..










We have a Radiance (loaner), that we wanted to check out the other day, but it came with the power supply not being in the box. At this point, we'll not going to be using it. Because it would be too late in the game to try and become familiar with its functions. So we've decided to stay with what we already have in that plans.









*"DiventiX Awarded at Infocomm 2006: "Best Video Signal Processing or Distribution Product" by Rental and Staging Magazine (USA)"Most Innovative Video Switching Product" by Systems Contractor News Magazine (USA)"*


----------



## antorsae

I don't get the whole RGBHV vs. DVI issue for the INPUT section; here's why:


- The DVX performs all processing in the digital domain (RGB, 8-bit/ch).

- The input signals need to be transferred to the digital domain.

- For RGBHV, the DVX needs to sample the incoming signals.

- For DVI input (regardless of chipset variation), no sampling takes place.

- RGBHV and DVI (when carrying computer levels), have the same color-space issues (i.e. video or computer RGB levels); RGBHV doesn't have a advantage here.


With regards to output, yes; at some point the signal needs to be converted to analog, so at that point you are testing the DACs of the DVX vs. the DACs of the Moome card. In my testing, I have found using the DVI OUT of the DVX (paired with the moome HDMI card) to be sharper.


BR - Andres


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/11908676
> 
> 
> 
> - The DVX performs all processing in the digital domain (RGB, 8-bit/ch).
> 
> - The input signals need to be transferred to the digital domain.
> 
> - For RGBHV, the DVX needs to sample the incoming signals.
> 
> - For DVI input (regardless of chipset variation), no sampling takes place.
> 
> - RGBHV and DVI (when carrying computer levels), have the same color-space issues (i.e. video or computer RGB levels); RGBHV doesn't have a advantage here.
> 
> 
> BR - Andres



The 8022 uses a very early version DVI chip. And we know what problems they created. It was only with Moomes HDMI cards, that things real;ly got better for CRT.


All RGBHV conversion is not substandard, regardless of the belief and whatever the theory is.


DVI has colorspace issues - period. And It's more forgiving when going from DVI into an HDMI input. It's not the same when going HDMI into a DVI input. And anything that suffers with problems with colorspace, it cannot get a broadcast rating, or be considered high performance.


The Moome on slot 2 may be a bit sharper than RGBHV on input 1, but it's not always sharpness that one looks for in evaluating the image. In fact, RGBHV was actually better in every other regard.


And though the Moome works OK with a DVI source connected to its input, it works even better when connected to an HDMI source.


I don't follow the theory I follow what works and has been confirmed. based on the specs of every chip and device manufactured, they should all produce excellent images - but we all know that has not been the case..


----------



## antorsae

Mike, are you talking about the DVI IN of the 8022 or the DVI out of the 8022?


----------



## mark haflich

One must remember that this will always be an evolving gluge. There simply will never be a best way. Our CRT beasts will always require a final conversion to RGBHV whether via a digital in slot card or somewhere before the VIM. Obviouly the ideal solution will be digital sources through a digital deinterlacing scaling to the final resoution to a digital bland (perhaps in the video processor), a strip and conversion to RGBHV. Perfecting the way of getting there will require time and substantial money, till then just a stop gap gluge. By then I suspect digital projectors will have equaled if not surpassed CRT. we shall see. Just glad somebody is willing to fund the effort and people are willing to cut, paste, and modify the gluge. Its sort of like the quest to find the holy grail or better yet catching sight of it.


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11908097
> 
> 
> Anyway, we're looking forward to the meet, and the fellowship with the folk that's coming out. And hope all is well with Don, because that BBQ is going to be a very important part of this affair..



I'm still here. Waiting to have a shoot out with you! Your 8500 (or something like like) and my 1272










See you soon...


wallace


----------



## mark haflich

I'd come just for the eats and the stippers. Everything else is just a plus except maybe a sleepy hung over Cliffy.


----------



## mark haflich

There will be two seperate three muskaters. Terry, MP, and JBJR and Cliffy, Arli, and Don. Priceless. Then of course there will be me, my Miata, Ashley (the dog), and my cigar.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ahh yes dah Cigar, Mark would not be Mark with out it .


----------



## mark haflich

Cigars are especially important because the host and MP will be celebrating the birth of their baby. Of course if someone gets confused and slaps Cliffy instead of the baby on its ass, they could lose their hand.


----------



## dropzone7

Mark, pebble debates aside, I wish I could come smoke a cigar with you cause I love em. We had our first somewhat chilly night last week and it was awesome to sit outside and just burn one for a few hours.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11914929
> 
> 
> Mark, pebble debates aside, I wish I could come smoke a cigar with you cause I love em.



Yeah, but don't smoke one of Mark's cigars - bring your own.


Mark's cigars smell terrible, and I suspect them to cause behavior problems..


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11915184
> 
> 
> Yeah, but don't smoke one of Mark's cigars - bring your own.
> 
> 
> Mark's cigars smell terrible, and I suspect them to cause behavior problems..



Hmm...Mark, whatcha smokin there guy?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11915385
> 
> 
> Hmm...Mark, whatcha smokin there guy?



I think you should be asking me that question.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11914897
> 
> 
> Cigars are especially important because the host and MP will be celebrating the birth of their baby. Of course if someone gets confused and slaps Cliffy instead of the baby on its ass, they could lose their hand.



Hmmmmm.... slap on the ass. I guess it would depend on who slaps me.










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11915184
> 
> 
> Yeah, but don't smoke one of Mark's cigars - bring your own.



I'll be bringing a Fuente OpusX and a Cohiba Robusto Habana .


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11915941
> 
> 
> I think you should be asking me that question.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy

















smokin' n' tokin'

















wallace


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11916207
> 
> 
> I'll be bringing a Fuente OpusX and a Cohiba Robusto Habana .



Clarence,


Your hospitality has left me with years of recourse.


You and your wonderful family are an example of what this forum is all about. I can't wait to come out.










BTW, I owe you dinner BTW TWICE.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11916500
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> smokin' n' tokin'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallace



As of this friday my friend, I'm in your world.


Bastage kick ass cooker.


















Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

According to MP, my cigar is some of his fecal matter wrapped in virgin saran wrap.


I tend to smoke something like Montecristo whites when I can savor one. In the car I smoke a variety of cheaper cigars, all mild in the $4-6 a cigar class. Something on the size of a Churchill.


----------



## mark haflich

I saw William today. He is alive and well. Hi ho, hi ho.


----------



## overclkr

I'm looking at my wife right now. Hi ho, hi ho.


Cliffy


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/11909117
> 
> 
> Mike, are you talking about the DVI IN of the 8022 or the DVI out of the 8022?



I was speaking of DVI period. And I'm doing so based on experience and it has nothing to do with what the industry or manufactures has to say about it.


The only experience I have with the DVI input on the 8022, was when it was connected to Williams Sony STB (DVI to DVI), showing OTA HDTV. The image from that STB was fine, considering what we were watching. And since we were not able to watch anything of film nature, it was hard to really tell how well it looked.


The real Digital feature on the 8022 is the HD-SDI input. If I were to go digital into the 8022, it would be through the HD-SDI input (which I think was updated with the latest firmware). So if going digital in for me, I would be looking for an HDMI to HD-SDI converter.


Moome's HDMI card into the Electrohome switcher produces the best image I've seen so far from the 8022. Now would a HDMI stripper into the DVI input on the 8022 produce a better image? I don't know, but I would seriously doubt that it would.



btw, update your 8022 with the latest firmware (July - 07).


----------



## wallace1234

Ok, it's getting dam close!


Food stuff - bbq beef brisket, bbq pork shoulder, the best dog-gone chili you ever had (that should get some folks saying "yea, sure...."), cold Pale Ale beer, good appetizers, and the best crt picture ever (God I hope so!!!).


With an attendance of the likes of Clarence, Cliff, Mark, MP, Arli, JB and I think some suprise guests, it will be a HOOT!










wallace


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11914558
> 
> 
> There will be two seperate three muskaters. Terry, MP, and JBJR and Cliffy, Arli, and Don. Priceless. Then of course there will be me, my Miata, Ashley (the dog), and my cigar.



What, you mean you're going to be neutral here..










So unlike last time, you're coming this time to be a detached Hemmoroid..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11928403
> 
> 
> and the best crt picture ever (God I hope so!!!).
> 
> 
> wallace



Well, we'll also show this system shooting a 16:9 image from one of the Marquees alone, and you're going to say it's the "best" and that's because It'll be looking so much like my lowly 8500..


----------



## overclkr

Hehe, he said Hemmoroid........


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Parker. I have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about me being biased last time.


Whatever biases I had last time remain, I haven't changed. I'm just older and physicaly hurt a little more. I will ***** about flaws in the projection system and HT even more because 6 months have elapsed since the last gluge.


Even the host views this as an ongoing research project that perhaps 50 people in the entire world care anything at all about. Of the people in attendance, I doubt anyone will ever do a blend CRT HT. This will be a great party with lots of friends including a great host. We will be allowed into a CRT lab to see the latest research results which will continue to evolve over the meet as people pull and insert cards and equipment, change things, and adjust over the meet. Six months from now, this will continue to be a CRT lab and will never be a finished HT. That's OK.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11930186
> 
> 
> Parker. I have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about me being biased last time.
> 
> 
> Whatever biases I had last time remain, I haven't changed. I'm just older and physicaly hurt a little more. I will ***** about flaws in the projection system and HT even more because 6 months have elapsed since the last gluge.
> 
> 
> Even the host views this as an ongoing research project that perhaps 50 people in the entire world care anything at all about. Of the people in attendance, I doubt anyone will ever do a blend CRT HT. This will be a great party with lots of friends including a great host. We will be allowed into a CRT lab to see the latest research results which will continue to evolve over the meet as people pull and insert cards and equipment, change things, and adjust over the meet. Six months from now, this will continue to be a CRT lab and will never be a finished HT. That's OK.



Dang, that William is pretty good. After having lunch with you once, you now seem to come across with a better understanding of these things. I've been trying this with you for years, and this is this first time I've seen you arrive here.


However, we do intend to wrap this up as a finished project. And we're aware of the time it's going to take to get there, but for now our goal is phase 1. Which was our desire for the meet. And later when the sources are more refined and prices settle on some other things, we'll then move onto phase 2. But for now, we see this as a start to a top notch system.


I'm just so excited to be a part of it..










Plus, I love to fellowship with good people. And these meets can set the stage for that to happen.


So this weekend, we're going to Middle (of nowhere) burg), and have a great time with some really nice folk to be around..


Man I love this hobby..


----------



## nashou66

Wish i could make it but cannot







. but hope it all goes smothly and you guys have a blast! hopefully next time i'll be able to make one of these meets .Its always bad timing and the air fair there is chep too damn it!!


have fun guys !


Athanasios


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11917161
> 
> 
> According to MP, my cigar is some of his fecal matter wrapped in virgin saran wrap.
> 
> 
> I tend to smoke something like Montecristo whites when I can savor one. In the car I smoke a variety of cheaper cigars, all mild in the $4-6 a cigar class. Something on the size of a Churchill.



I have yet to smoke that example you left for me for getting my theater done for the meet, thanks ! I do hope though that Mike is wrong about the cigar.










Art


----------



## mp20748

Hey Art. Mark's best friend smokes a pipe. he's a pipe collector and he has thousands of dollars invested in fancy pipes and fancy tobacco from everywhere...


But he'll not let Mark fire up one of his cigars around him..


So I'm not the only one who has a problem with his cigars.


----------



## wkosmann

There's a current set of AIG commercials that show one person making another laugh. (The best one is the dad making the baby laugh hysterically.) The punch line at the end is "Laughing adds years to your life. In one commercial's case its 8 years. In the baby commercial's case its 15 years.


You guys in this thread are adding decades to my life.










We are going to have a great party this weekend. The trees won't be at their peak like I had wanted (damn drought), but I don't think anyone will really mind.


Some late scratches include John Barnes and Athanasios


William


----------



## mark haflich

MP. You are mistaken. I've been watching football games at Bruce's since I do not have a working way of inputting anything into my projector. Though I have a VPL-vw60 sitting in a box in my HT but I haven't had time to set it up. My Moome card supposedly comes back from being fixed by Moome this week but I am loaning it to you guys for the meet. Hopefully, the transcoder manufacturer will repair my transcoder shortlly after the meet. Its still under waranty. Anyway, I smoke cigars in Bruce's theater all the time and he smokes his pipe. I do guzzle a little bit of refined hardstuff there too. Bruce and I both have high powered exhaust fans in our HTs. The sounds of our Marquee fans more than drown out any exhaust fan noise.







No one will hear exhaust fan noise at the meet. You and cliffy chanting OHMYGODLOOKATEMBLACKS will cover up any fan noise. Will the audio be on for this meet?


----------



## mark haflich

Looks like there will be about 20 attendees counting the wives but not counting the strippers.


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11932662
> 
> 
> Looks like there will be about 20 attendees counting the wives but not counting the strippers.



If the strippers are midgets, do 2 count as 1 attendee??










wallace


----------



## mark haflich

Is this a riddle?


Cliffy PM mailed and said he is bringing a collapsable brass pole and could I bring a trapeze with a wide seat.


----------



## overclkr

Hehe, he said trapeze.


Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11935311
> 
> 
> Is this a riddle?
> 
> 
> Cliffy PM mailed and said he is bringing a collapsable brass pole and could I bring a trapeze with a wide seat.



Brings to mind Marilynne Chambers and Behind the Green Door (showing my age).


Art


----------



## mark haflich

Thr trick at our ages is to hide the age, not show it. Never saw that movie. Did a stint on a trapeze with a young lady years ago. She was on the trapeze, not me. It was more like a body harness. No, I didn't use a safety net either.


----------



## mark haflich

Art. I think we are getting in trouble here. Don't post. Just go outside, jump in your hot tub, and enjoy the cigar I gave you.







Its OK if you hum the Michigan fight song. They need the help. Of course, I think they'd kill Holy Cross in the Chili Bowl.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11932574
> 
> 
> Anyway, I smoke cigars in Bruce's theater all the time and he smokes his pipe



That's not what you told me twice, and just the other day you said you were over at Bruces, and he would not let you smoke your cigar.


btw, who would?




> Quote:
> Will the audio be on for this meet?



Sure, but why would you need sound?


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11938768
> 
> 
> Sure, but why would you need sound?



The audiophile in me wishes to smack you







.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11932574
> 
> 
> My Moome card supposedly comes back from being fixed by Moome this week but I am loaning it to you guys for the meet.



Great. So far we have the two here, and with the one you're loaning, maybe we'll look at running the two cards in the Marquees again.


Anyway, I'm still at Williams now savoring the glory of these 2 Marquees on that 12' wide screen..










We're back to 1400x1050 @ 72hz, and we may look at something higher. WE have bandwidth running off the chian..










Oh, got to go...


----------



## mp20748

Oh, forgot to mention..


and there's NO gamma in this video chain.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11938973
> 
> 
> Oh, forgot to mention..
> 
> 
> and there's NO gamma in this video chain.



Quick! Delete it before Cliffy sees that!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11938993
> 
> 
> Quick! Delete it before Cliffy sees that!



Uh huh. It's in the chain somewhere. TRUST ME.


If not, well then you may as well just get a digital or live with crushed blacks.


I want to post more so bad but must keep my mouth shut until I chat with my bud.











Cliffy


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11939612
> 
> 
> Uh huh. It's in the chain somewhere. TRUST ME.
> 
> 
> If not, well then you may as well just get a digital or live with crushed blacks.
> 
> 
> I want to post more so bad but must keep my mouth shut until I chat with my bud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Can't wait till I hear the argument between MP and Cliffy







. Nothing will beat those between Mark and Mike though.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11939648
> 
> 
> Can't wait till I hear the argument between MP and Cliffy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Nothing will beat those between Mark and Mike though.



Nope. Will never happen. Mike and I both have our preferences and we have never argued about it once in person or on the forum.


We will never argue about it either.










Mike is actually one of the few people that I have met in my lifetime that I get along with very well. There is no differences.

















Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

MP. I am not trying to anger you but I never said any of that, nt once. I aways smoke cigars while watching games at Bruce's. If you don't believe me, I'll give you his number and you can call him and verify. I really don't know why you think otherwise. I modified my theater to put an ehaust vent over Bruce's seat when he is there.


----------



## wallace1234

This is gonna be a cool weekend.










wallace


----------



## mark haflich

Yea.Cliffy doesn't throw pebbles at Mike. Mikey likes to gve facal but he can't really take any aimed at him. He's never wrong and he thinks he understands everything. I've learned that I don't know and am constantly redefining what I thought I knew but have learned that I really don't know. Humility is one of my few virtues.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11939923
> 
> 
> This is gonna be a cool weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wallace



Hell ya big dog!!!!!! Sssscchhhit, I can't wait until friday night!!!!! Hell, I can't wait to get on the plane!
































Oh by the way, your cooking too so that is the absolute BEST BONUS!!!!!
































Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11938925
> 
> 
> Great. So far we have the two here, and with the one you're loaning, maybe we'll look at running the two cards in the Marquees again.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'm still at Williams now savoring the glory of these 2 Marquees on that 12' wide screen..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We're back to 1400x1050 @ 72hz, and we may look at something higher. WE have bandwidth running off the chian..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, got to go...



Does this mean you don't want me to bring my 1272 as the secret back-up?


wallace


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11939967
> 
> 
> Hell ya big dog!!!!!! Sssscchhhit, I can't wait until friday night!!!!! Hell, I can't wait to get on the plane!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh by the way, your cooking too so that is the absolute BEST BONUS!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I hope that's not all thats smokin'!










Oh yea! Not sure when you guys are leaving, but if I know you, you'll be primed before boarding time! Helll ya!!!


Never to early to start partying.


wallace


----------



## Gino AUS

i really wish i could have been there again


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11940060
> 
> 
> Does this mean you don't want me to bring my 1272 as the secret back-up?
> 
> 
> wallace




For awhile there I was thinking we may need that 1272


One of the Marquees had a slight problem, but it was solved.


It's good to know that there's a local projector we can use as a spare that is of the same caliber..


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11939612
> 
> 
> Uh huh. It's in the chain somewhere. TRUST ME.
> 
> 
> If not, well then you may as well just get a digital or live with crushed blacks.
> 
> 
> I want to post more so bad but must keep my mouth shut until I chat with my bud.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Well, I'll kick it off here.


Earlier in the thread I've been mentioning that I'm not the only person working to make this happen, and that we have a team.


One of the people on that team is Cliff, and that is how we were able to arrive at testing certain things for this setup, that may not have ben even considered before. A lot of things were suggested by several people, but it's been Cliff and Terry that I've been working with the most on this. It was these two guys who either had more experience with me on the 8022, or is presently working on one.


Terry was scheduled to come to this area on his way north, and would then stop in at Williams a day or so before the meet to help out, and hopefully could help with the color balance. Terry had to later cancel his other reasons for going north, so he'll not be coming this way. So that would leave the color balance on me, and also have me being the one to do the whole setup and calibration. We'', that's all except the blend zone. That we're leaving to Cliff. And we're also doing this meet the way we had hoped to do that last one, and that is to have various sources to look at, and that part as well will be on Cliff.


So for now, I'm still laboring with bringing things together, and by tomorrow the system should be ready for the finals before Saturday.


I gotta tell ya, the best suggestion we got from Cliff was to go analog from the Moome into the 8022. Without that we would have simply put the Fury into the 8022 and waited for the final results to be revealed after calibration.


Oh, and let me say this. That 8022 has one serious whatever inside inside of it. I won't mention more on this until the mett and after, but when it comes to a device that has full respect for making the best out of both analog and digital in one device, that award would have to go the the 8022 - WOW!


----------



## Clarence

While talking to Cliff last night, I checked the hour counter on my G90. If I leave it on today and tomorrow, we can watch the odometer flip over from *9,999 hours*!


Maybe it'll reset to 0,000










So we're gonna sit there like watching the ball drop in Times Square on New Years Eve. Maybe I'll save it for our Sunday morning hangover recovery activity.


Does anyone know if the hour counter updates in real time on the screen if you leave it up for an hour? I suspect it might... since all other settings are dynamically displayed as they change (contrast, etc).


Anybody want to buy a VERY low hour G90?


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11939897
> 
> 
> Nope. Will never happen. Mike and I both have our preferences and we have never argued about it once in person or on the forum.
> 
> 
> We will never argue about it either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike is actually one of the few people that I have met in my lifetime that I get along with very well. There is no differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Cliff reminds me of my nephew that was two months older than I am, who had also passed away some months back this same year.


My nephew was 100% man. he had a tender side and a side that you would not want to get wrong. But all in all, he was not afraid to be himself, and was just a good hearted person that loved life and people, and would go out of his way to help anyone. My nephew and I never really had arguments. We just spoke our minds o each other and that was that. I find that to be that same with Cliff, regardless of what you think, you could tell him, and he'll do the same to you, but it's all good when it's done in the right manner.


At the last meet, Cliff pulled me aside and gave me some constructive criticism. And it was greatly appreciated. And he also knows first hands, that If I have something to say, I'll also let him know. And this is the type of relationship that I had with my nephew. We were just two knuckleheads that kelp each other on the right path, and we did it because we were not afraid to tell the other the truth.


And that's what makes my friends my kind of peeps. I prefer to have folk around me and in my life that are sensitive enough to not criticize unnecessarily. And concerned enough to pull me aside and give me that constructive criticism I need to get back on track. And are also able to take the same verbal punch that they threw at me. And hey, just like my nephew, I too am 100% man. And I can be that way and still be a sensitive person..


----------



## overclkr

































Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

I'm just an unsensitive selfish SOB. Maybe I should become an ultra right conservative instead of a bleeding heart liberal. Wait. I can do all that and make it all OK if I become a born again. The CRT GOD works in mysterious ways..


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11945606
> 
> 
> I'm just an unsensitive selfish SOB. Maybe I should become an ultra right conservative instead of a bleeding heart liberal. Wait. I can do all that and make it all OK if I become a born again. The CRT GOD works in mysterious ways..



That's insensitive Mark and if you need some lessons we can hang out smoke etc.


art


----------



## mark haflich

Its impossible to be insensitive to an ultra right wing conservative, yet alone one who is born again. Them boys are bullet proof. I have several good friend who at least partially fit the category.


----------



## overclkr

Oh boy oh boy!!!! Here we go!!!!! Just printed out my boarding tickets for tomorrow!










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy, not that you ever really land, but what time is your plane scheduled to land?


----------



## overclkr

LOL. I arrive at Dulles at 5:45pm. We will stop at Clarence's to drop off our stuff, then to the liquor store for my jugs of wine then off to William's.


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11943496
> 
> 
> While talking to Cliff last night, I checked the hour counter on my G90. If I leave it on today and tomorrow, we can watch the odometer flip over from *9,999 hours*!
> 
> 
> Maybe it'll reset to 0,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we're gonna sit there like watching the ball drop in Times Square on New Years Eve. Maybe I'll save it for our Sunday morning hangover recovery activity.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the hour counter updates in real time on the screen if you leave it up for an hour? I suspect it might... since all other settings are dynamically displayed as they change (contrast, etc).
> 
> 
> Anybody want to buy a VERY low hour G90?




Yeah right! Like you would really part with it!







Congratulations on your milestone Clarence. I'm sure that the few thousand hours you personally put on it have been it's best. When and if you ever decide to change those tubes out with your minty new ones, that will be very interesting to see.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11943541
> 
> 
> And that's what makes my friends my kind of peeps. I prefer to have folk around me and in my life that are sensitive enough to not criticize unnecessarily. And concerned enough to pull me aside and give me that constructive criticism I need to get back on track. And are also able to take the same verbal punch that they threw at me. And hey, just like my nephew, I too am 100% man. And I can be that way and still be a sensitive person..



Mike, you dont need constructive criticism. You know your **** when it comes to CRT. BIG TIME.


Your a great person with a great heart and a passion for what you do. One of the things I hold dear to me in life is the fact that you just cannot make EVERYONE happy 100 percent of the time.


Chalk it up and move on. Without YOU, there is no you.


I treasure the time here at AVS and so look foward to the future, along with all of my best friends that I've made here throughout the years.


Oh yeah, and by the way, that picture is going to KICK ASS. I know it. I'll be honest with you though, please dont get mad if that box ends up across the street shot up.































Just kidding.

















Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11948144
> 
> 
> Oh boy oh boy!!!! Here we go!!!!! Just printed out my boarding tickets for tomorrow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Rock 'n roll!


wallace


----------



## NautikaL

I don't know what tomorrow will be like... can you imagine it?! AVS without Cliffy for a day







.


----------



## mark haflich

He's home for the early morning. Besides he's written a program so that his computer will post on the AVS screen shot war thread, stored frames from various screen shot classic flicks once every four hours whether or not he is present.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11952411
> 
> 
> He's home for the early morning. Besides he's written a program so that his computer will post on the AVS screen shot war thread, stored frames frm various screen shot classic flicks once every four hours whether or not he is present.



That is just so cool, he is a genius !







I was noticing a slow down in AVS this must have been it.


Art


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11948758
> 
> 
> LOL. I arrive at Dulles at 5:45pm. We will stop at Clarence's to drop off our stuff, then to the liquor store for my jugs of wine then off to William's.
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Cliff have a few drinks for me please. The PACs project I'm leading has experience some insane scope creep. I'll be haunting the halls of radiology this weekend. I'll be with you guys in spirit though.


----------



## mark haflich

Art. You are picking up the slack. I am sitting here enjoying an early morning cigar. Tomorrow I am going to the 4 hour Joe Kane calibration class for SMPTE members and invitees (but its an open invitation, i.e., anybody can come, no tickets needed) and then to the CRT blend meet. The calibration class is at the AFI film theater 2 in downtown Silver Spring, MD from 9 AM to 1PM. The blend meet is not like one of your meets. Its more like a CRT blend participation lab. My job is to watch and criticize everything. Its a tough tough job, but somebody has to do it.


You would think a couple of strippers could keep Clifffy subdued and worn out. Wrong. He goes through them like I go through cigars. Wish you and Angela were coming.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Make sure those Strippers have proper lighting, don't want too much Green, or Red light. You know how that shows off the bruises. That's why midget strippers are better less surface area to light up...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11953321
> 
> 
> Make sure those Strippers have proper lighting, don't want too much Green, or Red light. You know how that shows off the bruises. That's why midget strippers are better less surface area to light up...



Just defocus blue.










Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

You also need a fog machine to pump in a mixture of cigarette smoke and Victoria's Secret Earth Angel perfume. Then you can really set the proper atmosphere. Insert full length mirrors and glow in the dark carpet and then you can charge admission.


----------



## overclkr

Dont forget about the black lights!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

There is no such thing as a true black light. Black is the absence of light, something that a CRTer should know and recognize.


Does a stripper have one or more black holes?


Are you and Arli travelling together?


----------



## overclkr

Hehe, he said black hole.


Yes we are. Packing my stuff now.


I'm going to leave my moome card here since Mike has one in the switcher........


Cliff


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11953445
> 
> 
> Insert full length mirrors and glow in the dark carpet and then you can charge admission.



Ah, the full length mirrors, if positioned properly, might make the midgets look full size.


wallace


----------



## Sokoloff

Looks like weather is consipiring against my attendance, as we're due for CB clouds and almost-thunderstorms overnight and into tomorrow, which isn't a good match with a light single and VFR rating.


----------



## mark haflich

Bring it if you can. Please. they are looking for an extra one and mine has not yet come back from Moome.


----------



## mark haflich

Sokoloff. When in my non IFR rating days, been there, done that. No fun holing up somewhere waiting for weather.i always learned to pack overnight stuff.


----------



## wallace1234

OK, I just spoke to the "blend masters" (william and mp), and their comment was, "This is the BEST picture they have ever seen"; bar none!


I'll guess I'll need to clean my glasses..










Oh yea, I asked about the blend zone. They said "What fricking blend zone! We don't see no stinking blend zone!"


wallace


----------



## mark haflich

The only zone at this meet will be the twilight zone.


----------



## mp20748

OK, as promised. I'll be posting a few screenshots from that 12' wide screen. Not sure how far back the camera is located from the screen, but I have just where I can get the entire screen in the lens.


The following images are pre-setup and calibration. I still have about 5 or 6hours to go on this. So, the blend zone will most likely be visable, as well coonvergence and a bunch of other stuff, but that's all I have for now. I don't expect the setup to be finished until tonight.


----------



## mp20748

I really can't check these out, because I'm not on my PC at home, and I can't really tell what they look like..


----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748




----------



## mp20748

  

 

 


That's all for now. I'll get more once I finish up the setup/calibration.


----------



## mark haflich

They look like screen shots with your camera underexposing the blacks and making them appear crushed. No offense posting screen shots like this serves no useful purpose but hey there is nothing much going on CRT forum land anymore than useless screenshots.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11957318
> 
> 
> They look like screen shots with your camera undeexposing the blacks and making them appear crushed. No offense posting screen shots like this serves no useful purpose but hey there is nothing much going on CRT forum land anymore than useless screenshots.



You just have to poo poo on everyones parade don't you. :


----------



## mark haflich

He said he can't monitor what shots he is posting. I am telling him the shots aren't good, something he could see for himself and correct normally. Gee. I am sure because of exposure issues the picture looks great on the screen. The parade is freaking fine, thank you, its just the pictures of it aren't right now.


----------



## nashou66

Mark is right but not for the camera exposeres only, there seem to be a brightnes issue on the top 1/4 of the images you can readily see this on post #339 second pic. look on her forehead, you can se the two tone color going right across the image. Its also on other pics as well. I have this same issue on one of my marquees in my stack.and not sure how to get rid of it. I was Hoping it was from limited bandwidth and MP mods would fix it? Mike do you see it? But it might be something else like power issues. because soem times its not there but that is far and few between.


Athanasios


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11957813
> 
> 
> Its also on other pics as well. I have this same issue on one of my marquees in my stack.and not sure how to get rid of it. I was Hoping it was from limited bandwidth and MP mods would fix it? Mike do you see it? Athanasios



Yes, it's called "banding" and it's there because the projectors are NOT finished setup/calibration:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The following images are pre-setup and calibration. I still have about 5 or 6hours to go on this. So, the blend zone will most likely be visable, as well coonvergence and a bunch of other stuff, but that's all I have for now. I don't expect the setup to be finished until tonight



Not sure how this was missed. It's right at the top of the first image.


Now I understand how Mark missed it, because that's a common thing with those who are narrow-minded.


The screenshots were posted to show how things are coming along.


----------



## mark haflich

Parker. There is a difference between pig headed and narrow minded. You said you couldn't monitor the pictures. I said the blacks look crushed in the screen shots. I wasn't criticizing your set up, just the screen shots of it. I know you wouldn't post screen shots of black crush on the screen and that you are still setting up. I read and understood that. My comment was on the screen shots and was meant to be informative to you of what you are posting. I live with banding and I don't and never will take screen shots.


From my experience, Marquees even the ultras tend to band at higher bandwidths. My banding is practically non existant at 720p but is there big time at 1080p 60. Playing with the geometry controls won't eliminate it. Someday when you have the energy and time, you willl set my machine up and we will all see if the banding goes away. Maybe it will.


Relax. You are stressed out. We and I all love you.Give me a hug ya big lug.


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy and Arli have landed. The Governor of VA called me and asked if this necessitated declaring a state of emergency. I told him no, relax. While Cliffy was probably loaded and would probably stay that way until his plane departed on Sunday, he didn't bring any guns and nobody in their right or wrong mind would supply him with any amo.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Hope you guys have a great time,keep us posted about the blend.










Art


----------



## mark haflich

Its 1 1/4 oz of super premium tequila, 1 1/2 oz of freshly squeezed lime juice, and 1 ounce of grand marnier. Ice cubes with sharp corners, shaken and poured into a glass rimmed in lime juice from a wedge and dipped in kosher salt. After five of these, there is no banding, no visible blend zone, and almost everything looks black. Parker doesn't drink and he lost his shaker of salt so long ago . . . . he's wasting away in Kosmannville but it's nobody's damn fault.


----------



## nashou66

Yeah I hope you can figure out the banding issue. I dont notice it much but one i do i get focused on it. But mike as mark said we all live ya. even though i dont know ya !


Have fun guys , You all suck !


Athanasios


----------



## mark haflich

Alert. I am calling the governor. The power just went off at the Kosmann house. They are hoping it is restored shortly. Kosmann's wife said she heard a pop and it wasn't the top coming off one of Cliffy's wine bottles. Probably a transformer on Kosmann's road. Hopefully it wil be restored shortly. What can go wrong, will go wrong.


----------



## wallace1234

Just got back from a preview: Man! That's a lot of picture! Good picture! I just learned (or saw) what banding is. Me, being the simple mind person, didn't notice it until mp pointed it out.


"Oh, that's banding".










We got the beer chilling (the most important part for me), and the bbq going, so I'm ready anyway.


I am still kinda dizzy from watching 1 movie, but listening to another (mp can explain). We finally put on Blood Diamond (with sound) and wow! Too cool.


While watching and making observations, we started to actually watch the movie, and then ooppsss! Electricity gone!


I was thinking that if needed, we could use mark's high powered ferrari and a dc/ac convertor for tomorrow.










wallace


----------



## antorsae

Hey guys, I wish I could have made it here... I'll be checking this thread each 10 mins....







keep info/pics coming!!!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11959734
> 
> 
> Alert. I am calling the governor. The power just went off at the Kosmann house. They are hoping it is restored shortly. Kosmann's wife said she heard a pop and it wasn't the top coming off one of Cliffy's wine bottles. Probably a transformer on Kosmann's road. Hopefully it wil be restored shortly. What can go wrong, will go wrong.



Cliff, Arli, and I arrived at the blackout at about 7:30pm... after a good steak but some sour L.I. Teas between the airport and Wms.


The power company said a line was down and they estimated 12:30. We chatted around Wm's fireplace with a few bottles of wine until about 2am... still no power.










But the stars (and shooting stars) outside were incredible. No city lights. No light pollution. Awesome blacks










We came back to my HT and played with the 9,950 hour single G90. We'll head back there in a couple of hours and see if Wm has power yet.


It rained today for the first time in 2 months. Lots of fog and about 20 deer in the road in the 15 miles from Wms house to mine.


----------



## mark haflich

Notice boys, its was 4:41AM when he posted. Now they are going to sleep. It's 5:30 AM and I am just getting up to get ready for the Joe Kane class which starts at 9 AM about 45 minutes away. Somebody or two or four are going to be working on set up this morning on practically no sleep. By 10 PM tonight, a whole bunch are going to be SLEEPLESSLY WIRED. I doubt any of the Chicago boys or Clarence will get any sleep Saturday night. Just random scary thoughts.


----------



## wkosmann

Whilst we were alseep last night, electric power came to Middleburg. MP is in the CRT Lab as I type, going through setup on the right projector. In a little while Cliffy, Arli, and Clarence will arrive, and the fun will really begin. They haven't seen the Lab in operation yet.


It is going to be a gorgeous day here in the country. Mid 70s, sunny, little to no wind, trees in various stages of turning from green to whatever.


Wish you were here............


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11962721
> 
> 
> Whilst we were alseep last night, electric power came to Middleburg. MP is in the CRT Lab as I type, going through setup on the right projector. In a little while Cliffy, Arli, and Clarence will arrive, and the fun will really begin. They haven't seen the Lab in operation yet.
> 
> 
> It is going to be a gorgeous day here in the country. Mid 70s, sunny, little to no wind, trees in various stages of turning from green to whatever.
> 
> 
> Wish you were here............



William,



Glad to hear things are working out,I would have been bouncing around like a flea on a hot brick.










Art


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11958762
> 
> 
> Parker. There is a difference between pig headed and narrow minded




Well, I doubled checked this in the dictionary. I wanted to make sure i was describing you right. I first looked up narrow-mined, and there was a picture of you, so I gave up on looking up pig headed.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11943496
> 
> 
> While talking to Cliff last night, I checked the hour counter on my G90. If I leave it on today and tomorrow, we can watch the odometer flip over from *9,999 hours*!
> 
> 
> Maybe it'll reset to 0,000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So we're gonna sit there like watching the ball drop in Times Square on New Years Eve. Maybe I'll save it for our Sunday morning hangover recovery activity.
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if the hour counter updates in real time on the screen if you leave it up for an hour? I suspect it might... since all other settings are dynamically displayed as they change (contrast, etc).
> 
> 
> Anybody want to buy a VERY low hour G90?



I would have to look it up but I figured out how to reset the counter, I never should have given that to people looking back.


----------



## dropzone7

So, what's happening in the lab?


----------



## damon

Am I the only one here who has concluded that alcohol, strippers, bbq & rancid cigar smoke have interfered with their reporting duties??


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11967746
> 
> 
> Am I the only one here who has concluded that alcohol, strippers, bbq & rancid cigar smoke have interefrered with their reporting duties??



Get ready. Here it comes.


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Maybe once the "smoke" clears we will see some pics!


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11967406
> 
> 
> So, what's happening in the lab?



I left around 6pm so that it wouldn't be dark as I was trying to find my way home (that was the deal with my parents







), and at that time they were watching Casino Royale and working on the blend zone - both the convergence and brightness uniformity. Cliffy had it to where the blend zone was unnoticeable except during blue scenes. I really wish I could have stayed longer though. Watching 4+ CRT gurus set up a blend is very educational







.


But I have no idea what they're doing now... possibly working on Mark's "gayscale" :eek. Apparently projectors now have "gayscales" as opposed to grayscales (according to Mark







).


----------



## Ericglo

My guess is Clarence is crying over the loss to LSU.


----------



## overclkr




















































































To F'ing tired to talk right now, but OH MY GOD was the end result awesome. More soon.


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Looking good!!


----------



## mark haflich

This was an exhausting day starting with a 4 1/2 hour Joe Kane presentation to SMPTE (Nautikal (Jeff) and I both attended) and a lomg drive to William's. I got up to go to the presentation about the same time Clarance, Cliffy, and Arli went to bed.


Because of the loss of power at William's Fri night, all Saturday was spent in set up. Failure of William's calbration meter made proper set up impossible not to say the utimate result wasn't good. It was good but not yet spectacular.


Both projectors must be perfectly set up and balanced in color and luminance, then perfectly converged to each other, before a perfect blend can be achieved. A daunting task and impossible without a working meter. It was not achieved by the time I left at around 10PM but the result by then was watchable and enjoyable.


The image thrown up on a 1.78 9 ft wide Studeotech by Joe Kane and his 1080p $7000 Samsung DLP was better to my eyes except for unacceptable black performance. Black levels were about .05 ft-lamberts. Way to high for me and black detail was lacking. Black level is obviously a function of the projector design including the level atthe chip but it is user controllable. f there is an adjustable iris, closing it down will imrpove the black level at the cost of ultimate luminance, ditto for switching to a lower lamp level. The screen can be increased in size, and one could switch to a gray type screen. The black level aborption by the scren could beas high as 80% is one had a bright enough projector, but that brightness might cost you $250K. Black level absorption and scren coating gains are two different things Joe cautioned neverto exceed a oating gain of 1.3 to avoid seeing hot spotting at normal HD viewing distances. The projector currently uses the TI DC2. When and if its gets the DC4 whch reportedly has mch lower blacl levels, it really really will be something.


I'd be interested in Jeff's opinion on this projector here.


Interesting that according to Kane, the newly developed Phillips bulb in his projector showed very very little aging at 300 hours. The older bulb used in his first projector lost 50% of its brightness after 500 hours. He said he had 10 bulbs with 50% diminished brightness if anybody wanted one. I'd buy one of his projectors if it had the DC4 chip.


I really enjoyed all parts of today except for the long ride home without one of my low beams working.


Don't get me wrong. CRTs are still good and CRT folks are great, especially our group but wild horses could not get me to attempt a blend. A stack yes, but a blend no way.


Keep the screen size 8ft wide or less and great cost effective results can be easily achieved with a MP modded Marquee and a Moome card or a G90 with Moome or stacked same if you want a wider screen. Or go digital but I think we are still a year away before digitals completely eclipse CRT performance. A 30K 1080p Sim2 C3X will get you very close and coming (next year) sub $10K to $15K digitals will get you there.


Die hard CRTers are a biased group. They tend to write off technologies because of early failings. This is wrong. Cheap current digitals surpass state of the CRT art in many ways.


But if you are looking for a challenge and have the funds, a large screen blend could be equivalent for you of trying to be a par golfer or climbing mount Everest. It can be done, I think, but I have never seen it. Large scale commercial blends have been achieved but the blenders used to obtain them (rather easily from what I hear) are not within almost any consumer's budget costing what about $100K?


God, I love all you guys and will do whatever I can to help. I value your knowledge, dedication. drive and friendship.


The group at the meet was small but very knowledgeable and friendly. For us, it was one of our frequent reunions. The barbeque was great and I did manage to smoke one small cigar during the day. OK OK It was a big cigar.


I am aging, but I hope I am around a long time because I am needed to keep MP, Cliffy and Clarence in line and thinking clearly.


----------



## damon

Mark,


Who are you kidding? Jill would not allow another 3 eyed beast on the property for you to do either a blend or a stack! She suffers thru non-working HT status even worse than you do.


On a more serious note Mark H has a great point. The blend demands two rock soilid , matching condition PJ's & even from there you have your hands full.


For those of you that read thru this & don't know the parties involved may I just say that the reality is that Mark & MP really like each other in real life. It is only when they start to converse that the breakdown occurs & even then it is good natured.


Hey Mark is (Jeff) Nautikal eyeing a summer internship at your retail store?

And Jeff, your parents are wise people to enforce that you leave that crowd during daylight hours. Trust me on this!!!


----------



## Chuchuf

Mark,


Put your KD focus coils in one of your projectors yesterday and as expected, it really tightened up the focus w/ your high performance tubes. This one I'm excited about.


Terry


----------



## Clarence

Most of my screenshots were overexposed... I'm still learning my new camera. I was trying to use a faster ISO and a shorter exposure time since I was doing some handheld screenshots so I wouldn't have to pause the movie. A few came out OK, so I'll post some of the handheld screenshots.


And then I'll post my overall impressions of the weekend, the setup, and the meet.


But to maintain chronological order, here's the Friday night blackout. We sat out on the back deck and enjoyed the moon and millions of stars. But then it started cooling off, so Wm built a fire and we moved indoors.


I liked the reflections from the fireplace, so in lieu of the screenshots that Haflich loves so much, I practiced some low light scenes...





























This one was handheld, intentionally no flash to capture Mp and Cliff in a fireside chat...










just in case you're not in a totally light-controlled viewing envirionment, here's a little gamma equalization on the photo above...


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe cautioned never to exceed a coating gain of 1.3 to avoid seeing hot spotting at normal HD viewing distances.



Another thing he was adament about was how perforated screens lost a lot of the detail. Many studios were using perforated screens to do their film to video transfers, and one particularly (Universal) used far too much image enhancement. This caused a lot of noise in the picture. However, the people at Universal could not see this because they were using perforated screens and small CRT monitors. When Joe showed them what they had been doing on a non-perforated screen, they immediately took out their cell phones to tell their co-workers to stop the transfers.


Further, he explained how one manufacturer (Mark, help me here... I forget) was demoing "differences" between 4k (aka 2160p) and 2k projectors (1080p) on a perforated screen. The 4k projector shot onto the left side of the screen and the 2k projector shot onto the right side. The manufacturer was trying to show that there were no such differences - until Joe stuck a piece of regular screen material in front of the perforated screen. He explained that when he stuck the screen material in front of the 2k projector, it looked far better than the 4k projector. Then when he stuck the screen material in front of the 4k projector, it then looked much better than the 2k. In the end, Joe does not like perforated screens, even at 50ft wide when the holes are very very small.


Joe also dislikes the rising use of CIH anamorphic lense systems. He argues that this forces the need for video processing that stretches in a 1:1.33 ratio, which he says is a complex ratio. No matter how good of a video processor you have, this will still cause the loss of detail. Then the anamorphic lense introduces distortion as well. A much better alternative, according to Joe, is to motorize the lense, which has a throw ratio of around 1.4-2.2 on newer projectors. This would allow you to do CIH, but without video processing ($$$) and an anamorphic lense ($$$$).


Now you can take this with a grain of salt, but I personally respect his opinion due to his reputation and the amount of knowledge he has. Then there's also the fact that he has a lot of pull in the industry. He's the reason the Stewart Greyhawk and StudioTek 130 exist and the reason that Universal no longer does so much image enhancement in their transfers. He's also was a major influence in Samsung's decision to include 24p in their blu-ray players and for Samsung to include a calculated grayscale in their DLP projector. Finally, he was the only person to report back to Phillips that their bulbs for the Samsung projector were only lasting 300 hours, which led to the redesign of the bulb. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough pull to get DRM off of players, which he vehemently hates.


----------



## Clarence

On Saturday morning, the sun came out, beautiful clear blue sky... everything seemed brighter from the overdue rain the night before. We put the top down on my Jeep and took the scenic route along Goose Creek from my house to Williams.


Cliff, MP, and Arli got right to work. Measure out reference marks on the screen for geometry.


Configuring the optimal geometry for each projector and the blend overlap was a fun challenge. Here's Cliff reading the Blendzilla manual. I call this one ""RTFM"...











We finally got a good geometry configuration, so we stopped and had a great lunch catered by wallace... bbq pork, bbq beef, chili, old bay shrimp. Mmmmm. I didn't think it was possible, but it was even better than last time.


While we're seated at the kitchen table, William looks out of the window and lets me know about the deer in his back yard, since I'd been hiking around the property looking for photo ops...


----------



## Clarence

After a good lunch, it's back to work.


Now we have 2 halves of an image with good geometry. Time to start working on the blend zone overlap...


William had a custom-made oversized Marquee remote... it's 3' tall so it'll be easy to find in the dark and mounted up by the screen for easy access.


















Maybe it would be even better if we tried this...










Arli checks out his calculations for the overlap coverage...











William makes the changes to the blendzilla control software on his laptop...










This was a handheld shot (obviously) with no flash. My latest lens arrived yesterday after we'd left... a Canon IS (Image Stabilization) 28-135. I definitely could've used some image stabilization in that last picture...check out the blue power light. But the hand movement during the long exposure is pretty cool. This one was in my reject pile (you're probably wishing most of these posted pictures remained in my reject pile







), but I kind of liked the artsy effect in this blooper.


----------



## Clarence

Another photo hike in Williams backyard. I loved the stone wall surrounding the rear perimeters....


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The image thrown up on a 1.78 9 ft wide Studeotech by Joe Kane and his 1080p $7000 Samsung DLP was better to my eyes except for unacceptable black performance. Black levels were about .05 ft-lamberts. Way to high for me and black detail was lacking. Black level is obviously a function of the projector design including the level atthe chip but it is user controllable. f there is an adjustable iris, closing it down will imrpove the black level at the cost of ultimate luminance, ditto for switching to a lower lamp level. The screen can be increased in size, and one could switch to a gray type screen. The black level aborption by the scren could beas high as 80% is one had a bright enough projector, but that brightness might cost you $250K. Black level absorption and scren coating gains are two different things Joe cautioned neverto exceed a oating gain of 1.3 to avoid seeing hot spotting at normal HD viewing distances. The projector currently uses the TI DC2. When and if its gets the DC4 whch reportedly has mch lower blacl levels, it really really will be something.
> 
> 
> I'd be interested in Jeff's opinion on this projector here.



Before I post any impressions, let me just say that I don't really have anything to compare the Samsung to. I've seen Clarence's Marquee 8xxx way long ago, my XG 1100, and an unfinished blend.


That being said, I think the Samsung was superior to everything I've seen except for the black levels. Grayscale was perfect since it was calculated and the color uniformity was excellent. I want to say that the detail was amazing, but then again I was sitting around 6 feet away from a 9' wide screen. Still, the detail was incredible... in Casablanca, you could easily see the grain in the film, and in Meet Joe Black, you could see how Universal goofed in their image enhancement. Unfortunately, there was some misconvergence, but it was only seen where there was high contrast between objects (ie white on black) and was not that noticeable. I think if the Samsung was used on larger screen with a dynamic iris (it has a dynamic iris, but he didn't use this setting), the black levels could be improved immensely. Then there's also the fact that the TI darkchip 4 will be released soon, while this projector only used the dc2. To be honest, I only really noticed the bad black levels when he threw up test patterns, during dark scenes, or during fade to blacks. In all of these areas a dynamic iris would help significantly. During high ANSI scences, your eyes adjust to the black level and perceive it as being black since it's so much darker than the surroundings. When I compared black parts of a high ANSI scene to the screen border, I could not see any difference.


One thing I don't understand is why the projector can't "see" that the scene is all black and completely close the iris or turn off the lamp. Then there's also the fact that when Joe displayed a test pattern that had 4% below black, the black level didn't look bad at all. I wonder if it were possible to introduce some sort of gamma correction that lowered black level while still retaining low IRE detail, much like we do with our CRTs, but tailored for DLPs.


I still think a completed blend or G90 stack would be better overall, but you really have to like the ease of setting up the Samsung. Just point at screen, move the lense, tweak geometry, and use a colormeter to calculate grayscale. I think by this time next year we'll be at the point where CRT only surpasses digital in very low light level scenes, in reliability/serviceability, and cost. By the way, I'm talking about high-end digital... ie $8k and up. Digitals under $5k will blow for a long time, so unless your budget is huge, CRT is still the way to go.


But above all, you have to wonder where we might be in CRT if so much focus wasn't put into digital technology. Clearly if it's taking 10 years just to get to a point where digital equals CRT, CRT is far superior to digital concept-wise. I don't know enough about CRT technology to make accurate extrapolations, but the projectors would probably have been brighter, much smaller, and sharper had all the manufacturers focused on CRT. 10-11" tubes would probably be the new 9" tubes, and this would lead to improved brightness and sharpness. Then today's integrated circuit technology could make the projectors far smaller. I'm no EE, but if Intel can fit 300+ million transistors onto an area 1 cm by 1 cm, I'm sure most of the boards in the projector could be made much, much, much smaller.


----------



## overclkr

I Am Gay!!!


----------



## overclkr

i have come to my sensus and want to go digital..


----------



## mark haflich

Jeff. It's a single chip DLP, there can be no misconvergence!





















. With three chip digitals, there will be some misconvergence. However, companies like Sony have developed technology to virtually eliminate it.


Joe didn't use or like the auto iris function in the Samsung. It is probably far less developed than the current Sony DI. Remember like motion adaptive deinterlacing it is algorythm based. Using a DI, one will always have some brightness compression. When fore example you have a few bright stars on a black back ground. The iris closes down to make the background more black but the stars don't shine as brightly because the lens passes less light to them.


I think when doing the perf demo for the studeo people, all Joe used was a piece of white paper to cover the perfs. Iremember once my installers called me out to a job because they couldn't get rid of "video noise" on the screen. I put a piece of paper over the perfs on the screen and the noise vanished. The customer was using a perf roll down screen installed by others and it was slightly moving due to air convection in the room. The 1080p thrown up by the bulb projector was causing constantly changing morei

patterns on the screen which appeared to them as noise. It did indeed look like moving noise bars.


On theSamsung, not using its what I think is a primitive DI, the iris setting is user set. The more you increase the iris f number (make its opening the smaller) the more light you block. The % blockage is uniform. The idea is blacks should be 0 ft-lamberts. On a digital they aren't. One rarely watches total black at the meet when the power failed, thats all they watched. MP reportedly kept chanting look at em blacks, they took im upstairs and started a fire but he is sunject to relapse, but him in front of digital and he will oftem break out with a look at em blacks. Light on the screen is needed to see anything other than absolute black. And there the problem lays, when anylight is on in a digital some of it will pass lighting up that which sould be lit but also lighting up which shouldn't. CRTs are not perfect here either because of phospher decay times but they are a lot better than any digital and become our and even Cliffy's reference.



Cliffy which switch to digital in a few years too. So will anyone who wants consumer state of the art. why does Cliffy stack? Bacause he can drastically increase his luminance without sacrificing CRT blacks. To maintain the CRT blacks in a stack, gamma correction must be made and Cliffy has made it. a blend doesn't need gamma correction but there are so many other difficulties . . . . it is only for a rich narcisist. HI YA MARK.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11971117
> 
> 
> Jeff. It's a single chip DLP, there can be no misconvergence!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . With three chip digitals, there will be some misconvergence. Howver, companies like Sony have developed technology to virtually eliminate it.



I swear I saw some blue bleeding out of black during high contrast scenes!


----------



## mark haflich

I don't know but if there was some it was not caused by convergence. There is nothing to converge. Just like a one gun CRT.


----------



## nashou66

Jeff you might have seen what some see with DLPs rainbow. I see it and it looks like what you said a slight mis-convergance, but its not. this is why i had to go with crt. cant watch dlp too long i get dizzy.


Athanasios


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11972358
> 
> 
> Jeff you might have seen what some see with DLPs rainbow. I see it and it looks like what you said a slight mis-convergance, but its not. this is why i had to go with crt. cant watch dlp too long i get dizzy.
> 
> 
> Athanasios



I think that's what it was. I threw up a checkerboard pattern on my 42" RPTV Samsung DLP and I saw the same thing... blue bleeding out of the black. I don't think I'd notice it in real viewing though. Guess I never really knew what rainbows were.


----------



## mark haflich

Cliffy's body is now in the air along with his mind. Talk about convergence. Planes are one technology older than CRTs. MP will switch when one can be transported between destinations digitally. Beam me up Scotty.


----------



## wallace1234

A perfect weekend.


wallace


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wallace1234* /forum/post/11973197
> 
> 
> A perfect weekend.
> 
> 
> wallace



Yes, it was that for sure..










I must say, this past weekend has been one of my best. It's been a very long time since I've been able to be around the type of people that I was around this weekend.


We had a number of things to go wrong, to include the loss of electricity, a control board failure the morning of the meet, and that's just a few things that went wrong. But still, it'll also make it one of my most memorable for the rest of my years.


with all that had happened already on Saturday, right after the lights going out on Friday, both William and I went out to dinner. When we got back Clarence, Cliff and Arli were waiting. And we spent a great part of that night sitting screened section at the rear of the house, to later move inside and gather near the fire in the fireplace.


These three guys bought with them an enthusiasm and energy that lifted us up, and they even stayed around waiting for the electricity to turn back on, so that they could help out. Man, you talk about one great time we had. It was just so GREAT to have been in the presence of such people during that difficult time.


So we started with BBQ man (Don), and that made three of us Including William. With the arrival of Clarence, Cliff and Arli, the team was formed. And from that night to sometime today, we made up one of the best teams ever. It's not that we were able to move mountains. It was just that were able to come together and work as professionals. And at no time were there any disagreements, or anyone bent out of shape for any reason. We just came together and jelled very well as a team..










I must publicly give these guys their props. And though Cliff was really the star. Everyone played a very important part in working to wrap things up later that evening.


And I must also add this. As much as Cliff post that he's not an expert in CRT setup, blah, blah blah. He was the one that took the lead and made things happen. And I was stoked, because I learned so much from these guys, who claim to not know much about CRT.


Great job guys! and Thanks for your help and support in this. I only hope I'm able to do the same on your next projects.












Edit: I forgot to add a few shots. A little over exposed, but it's the best I could do in such short time with the same camera settings used on another setup:


----------



## Clarence

I just got back from dropping Cliff and Arli off at the airport. We visited William's one more time after lunch today and then went to downtown DC to get a quick tour since Arli and Cliff hadn't ever been there.


So I'll continue on my photo diary of this weekend. Saturday afternoon:


While Cliff, Arli, William, and Mike continued making positive progress on the geometry, convergence, and blend zone, Mark Haflich arrived in his Miata and a 9" cigar:










Arli, wallace, and Mark:









As you can tell, William's house is fairly small, so a few people had to wait outside.










Mark's jumbo cigar required a jumbo ashtray...


----------



## Clarence

I was a little picky about getting the diagonal lines to converge in the blend zone, and Cliff did a great job of finally getting them perfect...


----------



## NautikaL

I forgot to ask this at the meet... how come you were using only point adjustments? Had you already done tilt/skew/bow and the likes beforehand?


----------



## Clarence

Once the blend zone test grid was converged, the movies really began to look sweet.


I didn't want to stop the progress, so instead of setting up a tripod and pausing the movie, I just set my camera to a faster shutter speed and ISO and stood off to the side taking some quick handheld screenshots...











but since I was taking screenshots without pausing the blu-ray, if there was any motion in the scene, I got some cool, freaky blur bloopers...











another handheld shot without pausing the movie:










Then I set my camera on the tripod in the back of the room and used an IR trigger to take pictures from my seat during the movie (without pausing)...


----------



## Belcherwm

I had a great time hanging out with you guys Saturday afternoon. Always learn something and it makes the forum members more three dimensional when you read their posts after you have met and spent some time with them. William, thanks again for inviting me.


Here's some shots of the lab in action:


Mike and Cliff scheming
 


Color balancing, by eye
 


 


Getting ready to watch something besides a test pattern
 


Mark checks out the Twin's image
 


William's inverted riser
 


Step One: Mike Explains something to Mark
 


Step Two: Mark explains something to Mike. Go back to Step One and repeat.
 


A nice supper courtesy of Don
 


Yeah, it is a big ashtray


----------



## mark haflich

Looking for a safe place to put my half smoked but still lit cigar, the metal sat dish was a safe place, It was there later for a smoke break.


----------



## NautikaL

Clarence, that last shot of yours looks really nice







.


----------



## Ericglo

Jeff,

A couple of points about the Joe Kane demo you talked about. First the perf screen discussion is interesting. I have never really liked perf screens and Joe's comments partly confirms this. I understand what he is talking about regarding gain, but that doesn't take into account Torii screens (your experiences not withstanding). Second, the CIH thing is his opinion. Dan Francis discussed this recently in the digital forum, as part of his and Marantz's counterpoint. I am not taking sides, but just wanted to mention that there are differing opinions. Third, I am curious if Joe changed his mind on TIs so-called tricks. Last year, he didn't like DI and called it a gimmick. Fourth, gamma would have no effect on absolute black. You can read about it here . Fifth, I spoke to Scott(tse) recently. He said that it will take a couple of years to match CRTs in absolute black and rendering motion. Absolute black may be moot for a lot of people when on/off gets to a certain point. Motion could depend on the technology, as Scott is working with the Sony pjs. DLP may be much better in this regard. I do agree about how good digital can look. Cineramax had a demo with DP's cinema pj two years ago. It was probably the best display set-up I have seen. Give it 100k to 1 on/off and it would have been perfect. Finally, I agree about the stagnation in CRT tech. Scott has said that CRT tech basically died ten years or more ago. I did mention this very thing about current technology if CRT tech would have continued to advance. It would have been interesting to say the least. Maybe some experts in the field could expound on this. JTfoley, I looking at you.










It is cool that you went to the presentation. I really enjoyed his Samsung demo at Infocomm last year.


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ericglo* /forum/post/11974649
> 
> 
> I understand what he is talking about regarding gain, but that doesn't take into account Torii screens (your experiences not withstanding).



Right, but I think when he was referring to the max gain of 1.3 he was speaking strictly about flat screens.



> Quote:
> Third, I am curious if Joe changed his mind on TIs so-called tricks. Last year, he didn't like DI and called it a gimmick.



Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure exactly what you mean.


----------



## Ericglo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/11974685
> 
> 
> Right, but I think when he was referring to the max gain of 1.3 he was speaking strictly about flat screens.



On this, I would agree unless it is a Hipower.



> Quote:
> Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure exactly what you mean.



He thought DIs introduced to many problems. In other words, the disadvantages outweighed the advantages. Don't ask me to elaborate, because it was a year and a half ago and I don't want to misquote him.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Nice photographs Clarence, really like the stone wall and shots of the deer. Looks like you guys had a good time. What was the whole "I'm Gay" thing about why does Cliff want to go digital? I assume he's just kidding...


Did anyone check Marks cigars were they hollowed out, then packed with some happy grass?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11975245
> 
> 
> Nice photographs Clarence, really like the stone wall and shots of the deer. Looks like you guys had a good time. What was the whole "I'm Gay" thing about why does Cliff want to go digital? I assume he's just kidding...
> 
> 
> Did anyone check Marks cigars were they hollowed out, then packed with some happy grass?



LOL, yeah some tools jumped on my laptop this afternoon and decided to post under my name.










Just got home but looking foward to posting my impressions of this absolutely incredible weekend.


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ahhh Haaah... That makes sense..


Glad to hear you guys had a good time. I really wish I could have made it, I could have used the time away.


----------



## antorsae

Hey... nice to know you had a great time.


Did you use the CCM for the blend?


BR - Andres


----------



## mark haflich

Joe doesn't like DI's or at least the version that's in the Samsung. The controls and turn on for it are well hidden in the service menue.


Joe's problem with surface gains has to do with distance watched from the screen and the observability of hot spotting. All surface gain screens with a surface gain greater than one will hot spot. ALL The higher the surface gain the farther from the screen you must get not to see it. Increase the surface gain and you must move farther away not to see it. Now howfar doesone aveto sit away from a 1080p screen of a certain size not to see lines, pixels. The normal distance one sits from a screen is about 1.6 times the screen width. Maybe one can go as close as 1.2. Whatever. You do not want to see hotspotting so surface gain is limited to a gain that won't show it at these viewing distances. To Joe, 1.3 is the limit. Remember a gray screens gain is oomprised of the material gain (negative in that it is less than one) and the surface gain (positive). The limit is on the surface gain. Thus if you had a material gain of .5 and a surface gain of 1.5, your net gain would be 1 or neutral but you would get hot spotting at normal viewing distances.


The GAY stuff. At the meet I said something about adjusting gray scale and it came out "adjusting the gay scale ." Fortunately, I don't think anyone present was gay. however, in the CRT world sexual proclivities are not relevant. As long as you don't mistake people screeming GOD as something religeous and Look at EM BLacks as something racial, you will be fine.


In fact, I think the strippers at the meet were bisexual, however you better ask Cliffy to be sure.


----------



## wkosmann

My Post-Meet Thank You Post;


This Meet was at least 3 orders of magnitude better than the last Meet (even including the loss of electricity on Friday evening). Given that rate of progress, the next Meet ought to be..............unbelievable.


Mike, words alone cannot express the ThanK You in my heart for all the time you have spent making this possible. Your uncompensated VIM and neckboard research, modifying the 50-2035-03 VIMs, modifying the neckboard sets, remodifying the neckboard sets, dealing with each board failure in both projectors, instructing Don and I how to remount the projectors, replacing the right projector blue CRT and swapping the red and blue CRTs, endless hours setting up the projectors, uncompensated source research, modifying 2 of your Electrohome switchers to work with the Moome HDMI input cards and to work with the Xbox 360 and to handle 1080P72 bandwidth, modifying both Moome HDMI inputs cards to work with the switchers, working around my travel schedule, building new internal video cable sets at the last minute, tearing apart your test projector, to have spare boards on hand for the Meet, enlisting Cliffy's help to set up the blendzone, and protecting me from Mark. Finally, thank you for taking and posting all the screenshots, to document both the Meet and your work. The list goes on and on. Thnak you so very very much for agreeing to take this project on, and for perservering to see it through to this point. The progress we have made this year as absolutely outstanding. You are my friend for life and are always welcome in my home.


This brings me to Cliff. Big Dog, you stepped up to the plate and smacked a grand slam. Thank you for flying to my Meet. Thank you for lugging your VP50, your PS3, and a bunch of Blu-ray and HD DVDS to Middleburg, so we could use them (especially the scalar) to perfect the geometry of the twin projected images, then enjoy the result (PS3 + movies). I promise its the last time you will have to lug anything to one of my Meets. Thank you for optimizing the dual convergence in the blendzone, and for learning-on-the-fly the antiquated Marquee setup firmware available on my ancient Marquees. (Porting the G90 firmware to the Marquee is on the docket for 2008.







) Thank you for stepping in and leading the blend zone setup, and especially for taking so much time to try to get the blend zone intensity as uniform as possible. We obviously would not have acheived the results we did without your expert participation. Finally, thank you for taking and posting all the screenshots, and documenting the Meet for posterity. You are my friend for life, and are always welcome in my home.


Arli, thank you for flying to Middleburg with Cliff, and coming to the Meet. Thank you for working with Cliff and Mike and leading setting up the sizing of each projected image and the overlap of the images, and for assisting on a number of the other setup activities. You have the same friend and welcome status as Mike and Ciff.


Don, you are the smoking master. Thank you for putting on another impeccable spread. All 3 of your main dishes were of high end restaurant quality. The food you make is beyond awesome. I will keep coming to my own Meets, as long as you provide the vitals. You also have the same friend and welcome status as Mike and Cliff.


You guys are all my heroes, and if I ever grew up, I would be proud to end up like any of you.










There have been a large number of key players. Mike, Cliff, Tim Martin, Terry, John Barnes, plus others I'm not going to mention. A proper CRT blend set up is not possible without all of their participation. Hillary was wrong. It does not take a village. It takes a Home Theater.


With the warmest possible affections,


William


----------



## overclkr

William, stop it, your making me blush.










Going up for dinner but wanted to get these posted. I'm sorry I havent posted on my thoughts for the weekend, but I've been wrapped up since I got home last night. Hopefully tonight before I go to bed.


Some nice shots of Williams beautiful spread:


----------



## overclkr

The guys enjoying one of the most awesome weekends of the year:


----------



## overclkr

Some nice shots from Downtown D.C., thanks to Clarence, he provided an awesome place for us to stay this past weekend and his hospitality is top tier. What a great friend.


----------



## overclkr











































































Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11982540
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Damn... your camera is clipping whites on that picture. That was the best shot... the capitol building was right behind them.


----------



## mark haflich

Further thoughts. The picture from each projector was incredibly sharp. Great background detail. Fantastic in this regard. Sharper than a blend can be except in the blend area where the limit on sharpness should be about the same as a stack. Cliffy's blend was not as sharp. Nothing to complain about though. I am used to a sharp non stacked CRT with MPs mods and astig and focus set up. The blend unit was brighter than my same single CRT because its image was only 6 ft wide from each CRT compared to my 8 ft wide.


That said my comparison to the Joe Kane digital I saw on Sat morning was to a very incomplete set up that many at the meet busted their rears to get it as good as they got it to. The power failure, not having a calibration meter or optical comparator, meant a good blend could not be achieved. That will happen. Then a true comparison will be in order and I am sure the final results of the blend will be fantastic.


I thought Cliff's stack was fantastic. From what I have been told the focus was a little off and Cliffy has made it sharper. But as it was it was fantastic. Over all. BLIND MAN's opinion. The blend will get there and I think will surpass the stack. But its not there yet.


In someways no CRT blend or stack can surpass what some affordable digitals can do. The CRT sport is limited by limitations in the phosphors and respective color space and from the fact that three or six lenses must be converged. I have never seen a FP with great white field uniformity nor with the brightness (13 ft lamberts) of a decent digital. However, no digital can do the low black level of a CRT or present the black level detail of a CRT.


I guess I am just an insensitive idiot with a black heart. Sorry for offending anyone with my observations.


After sex with a young lady years ago, she asked me if she was the best I ever had.

She wasn't. But wanting five more helpings that night, I lied. OK Like Cliffy, I am a glutton.


This ain't sex and I won't lie. The picture was good, the detail and blacks were fantastic, but there is still quite a way to go. It will get there. At this stage, I prefered the digital. BUT WTF I am an idiot.


----------



## nashou66

Wlliam said:


> Quote:
> (Porting the G90 firmware to the Marquee is on the docket for 2008. )



What is this all about! tell us more !! What are you and Parker up to!


Athanasios


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nashou66* /forum/post/11983375
> 
> 
> Wlliam said:
> 
> 
> What is this all about! tell us more !! What have you and Parker up to!
> 
> 
> Athanasios



Inside joke... Cliff bitched everytime the primitive Marquee firmware couldn't do a geometry control that our G90 firmware has.


No, MP is not going to be able to rewrite the Marquee firmware. But if anyone has the Marquee SDK, it sure would be fun.


----------



## dropzone7

I'm surprised the terror alert wasn't bumped up a notch or two when Cliffy entered DC.


----------



## mark haflich

I made some calls as previously posted. It is good, however, that the early warning system didn't fail. He definately show up as a bogy on the radar screen. Fortunately he is a friendly bogy and he wasn't armed.


----------



## wallace1234

What a cool weekend.


William, Thanks once again for opening your house to us. You and your family have a great spread! Also, thanks for cleaning up the chili, bbq sauce, shrimp and the other mess I left.


IMO, if there was ever a doubt about MP or Cliff’s abilities, well, that’s “outta-here”!


MP’s talents and technical knowledge was proven this weekend to me. The color, clarity of images and depth makes me gasp. Watching him work is like observing an artist. To see the work he does on boards (and I mean fine detail stuff) and to watch him in action adjusting yokes and whatever is cool. I think I could bind fold him and he would still get a picture perfect.










Cliff is a no nonsense, take no prisoners type person. Watching him get that laser focus in his eyes was almost scary. At one point Saturday evening, after we everyone tried to suggest ways to get the blend zone converged but failed, it was the consensus that the pjs needed to be moved (toe-in) to get the blend zone aligned. (at that point, I thought “ah schiit, we’ll be here till next weekend”.) Cliff did not go with that idea. He kept saying, “Damit, there has to be a way! Who took my bottle of wine?!” (I must note that at one point I thought he was going to kill the remote for the pj on the right as it kept screwing up and would not work.) Instead of giving up or going with the idea of moving the pjs, he just grabbed the remotes and started on the blend zone again. Then, as we all watched, BAM! There is was. Tight as a nats butttt. Cliff was in the zone.










Of course, none of the blending would have been possible if it had not been for Ali’s math to figure out exact picture width for each pj.


I am blown away by the knowledge that Jeff has. DAM! I wish I payed attention in school!!!


All in all, I’m glad the number of people was not any larger as it allowed the experts to do their best work. But the folks that did attend, Clarence, Cliff, Arli, MP, Jeff, Bill, John and of course Mark made for a great weekend.


Also, if you will look at the pictures that Bill posted, note the one where everyone is sitting around eating; Mark has his smoldering cigar in his left hand, and a fork in the right. Bill and I thought he might actually forget and try to use the cigar is a knife..










What a great time and sad to say it’s over.










Now, if I can just get Mike to help with the blending and then stacking of my 4 1272s… YEA!!!!!!










wallace


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11982724
> 
> 
> Damn... your camera is clipping whites on that picture. That was the best shot... the capitol building was right behind them.



Those pictures turned out really good, what camera is that? Do you have the picture of you and Arli in Raw format? If so send it to me I might be able to fix the clipping.


----------



## Doug Baisey




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11943191
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, and let me say this. That 8022 has one serious whatever inside inside of it. I won't mention more on this until the mett and after, but when it comes to a device that has full respect for making the best out of both analog and digital in one device, that award would have to go the the 8022 - WOW!



Wondering about this. Doug


----------



## dropzone7

Man, I would love to have just a half day with all of these great CRT minds in MY room. I wonder how much free BBQ, pizza and alcohol it would take for anyone to show up? I am envious of you guys that have a little network of people close by, especially you Virginians. It would be so nice to find even one CRT literate person within 50 miles of me so I could just say, "hey, what do you think about this, or can you help me get this dialed in?" I don't have anything impressive in the way of equipment but I just don't think what I DO have will ever be used to it's full potential unless I enlist the help of someone besides myself.


----------



## mark haflich

There is going to be a silence here. Cliff lives near the Indiana/Ill border and this would be quite a trip. He is not a professional, but he could be one if he wanted to.


MP doesn't like to travel a lot for the consumer market. He is the world's best astig/focus set up person for a Marquee. All others are amateurs in comparision though some are are more gifted than others.


There are several excellant calibrators but not all possess all other necessary Marquee set up skills.


Perhaps the best professional that can do it all is Terry. Atlanta is not all that far from you. Terry can pretty much do it all. For what you get, his rates are reasonable.


I am sure all this is going to get me in trouble, but trouble is OK.


The blend at Kossman is like a group of talented mountain climbers trying to scale Everest. It can be done and the challenge brings them and most of them are now buds.


They are not like me, I am not a climber. II came for the barbeque. Just a joke.


Nevertheless I am not a climber. I came to enjoy the view they would send back from the summit and to be with those morons.


----------



## overclkr

Ok, now finally some time to sit down for a bit.


First of all I want to once again thank Clarence and his family for putting up with me and Arli once again for the weekend. I did at least get to buy Clarence one of two dinners I owed him.







I hope he can make it out in November for the GTG I'm having along with William, Mike, and possibly Mark.


William, I've had a blast getting to know you. Your a true friend and thanks for being a most EXCELLENT host and opening up your home to us NUTS. It was an absolute blast and hope to do it again in the future!


Mike Parker has become a good friend of mine over the last year and I have to say the more time I spend with him, the more respect I have for him. What a great all around guy with a great heart. Who would have known that we would have so much in common.











Don, your cooking is absolutely KILLER!!!! That is one hell of a spread that you put out for us this past weekend! Who would have thought that I would love eating chili without beans!!! Awesome!!!! The one thing I would have loved to do for dinner is drop that on some pasta for some five way! You and I as well have had a blast getting to know eachother and hopefully this wont be the last time that we get to hang out. Your a most EXCELLENT person!


To everyone else, I had a BLAST and thank you for having the patience to wait it out while we put the system together last minute because of the power outage friday night. The worst part is the fact that the system reached it's pinnacle after everyone left and that really disappointed me big time.


Now, to William's system.


WOW! is all I have to say about what Mike Parker has done to those Marquee's on the ceiling. For anyone considering a Marquee, MP's mods are a MUST if you really want to get what a true CRT projection system is all about. I was absolutely FLOORED by how sharp and well the Marquee's resolved [email protected] 72hz! WOW! They just loafed along without any issue at all what so ever and it looked awesome. I honestly do not think that I could feed my G90's with that high of a frequency and it be this sharp.



We fed the Zilla with Clarence's Toshiba HD DVD, PS3, and Williams Sony BD player going to my VP50 then to the Marquee switcher moome card.


The VP50 was sending 48hz to the Zilla and the Zilla sent 1050P/72hz to the projectors. I set the VP50 to 2:35 mode at 48hz and the races were on. The result was stunning. 12ft 2:35 AR on CRT. That screen is HUGE!


The most difficult thing for the setup was getting the right color balance. While it looked awesome, the colors were WAY OFF and not even close or remotely close to what could have been if Ken was there. Unfortunately we had to work this time without him and Terry so I sucked it up and matched the projectors the best I could by eye. Considering I was pretty much drunk the whole weekend, the result was MORE than a watchable picture and I'm sure everyone that was there will agree once it reached it's pinnacle Saturday night, jaws were on the floor. I refused to give up from the time I got there and did NOT STOP until we took it as far as we possibly could and it rewarded us well.


Thank God MP and everyone else stuck by my persistence cause I'm sure toward the end, I was starting to be a real pain in the ass. I couldn't help it.










William, once he get's all of his source's straightened out is going to have a KILLER setup that most of us could only wish of. Congradulations big dog, you have been officially stamped the AVS kick ass award.










Probably my FAVORITE part of the whole weekend, and I'm sure this made MP and William CRINGE, but I CRANKED THE LIVING PISS out of those MP modded 9500's. I mean those things were CRANKING! AWESOME and another testament to Mike's Mods.
























Until next time,


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11993654
> 
> 
> Probably my FAVORITE part of the whole weekend, and I'm sure this made MP and William CRINGE, but I CRANKED THE LIVING PISS out of those MP modded 9500's. I mean those things were CRANKING! AWESOME and another testament to Mike's Mods.



To put this in perspective, William previously had a single Marquee for about 10 years that he always ran at Brightness and Contrast at 50/50. Hardly any visible wear after a decade.


MP's mods lets you really crank the tubes and you don't get the blooming that an unmodded Marquee gets when you turn up the contrast. So Cliff told Mike to crank it. MP clicks it up to 70, then backs it off to 69.


Cliff's a Spinal Tap kinda guy... if the volume goes up to 10, he wants it at 11.









Mike's mods allows the picture to be very watchable at C=100, but you can probably cook some bacon on the phosphor to go with the toast that's being made.


Cliff kept cranking up the contrast to "meet mode". And when it kept getting turned down, Cliff figured out that he could crank up the gamma in his DVDO when Wm & MP weren't looking.


----------



## bomrat

ya, it was all good. i had a blast, thankyou again for letting us invade your houses and drink all of your wine.. gotta do this again soon.


wonderfull picture, great sound, he is going to enjoy the hell out of it.


----------



## Clarence

William, I finally remembered to look in my junk closet for my spare remote to replace yours. I found two (so far)... if someone can remind me if these are indeed Marquee and not merely ECP remotes, then I'll mail one to you gratis. (Even though I haven't quite yet made your list of friends who are invited back to your home







).











Also, Bill B: remember to PM me your mailing address and I'll send you my HDFury to try with your Kim transcoder.


----------



## overclkr

The AVS kick ass award for Best Screenshot for the Blend of course goes to Clarence.



















Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11993654
> 
> 
> The VP50 was sending 48hz to the Zilla and the Zilla sent 1050P/72hz to the projectors. I set the VP50 to 2:35 mode at 48hz and the races were on. The result was stunning.



Interesting, did you notice any syncing issues doing this? I've found with my DVX8022 that if I don't use 'follow framerate' ie. input 71.93Hz, output 71.93Hz, the result isn't so silky smooth. It works going 48Hz to 72Hz, but just not completely frame locked.


Also Kudos to the CRT all stars at the meet. I'm really bummed not being there to watch you all in action again.


----------



## wkosmann

Dear Clarence;


Of course you are my list of those always welcome in my home. You could make the list of "friend for life" if you could find a home for that **** light valve.


The remotes you have posted are indeed Marquee remotes, and I would like to purchase both from you. I could actually use a spare.











William


PS: I have no problem driving all the way to Purcelville to pick them up.


PPS: Also, I would like the link to the blend white paper you mentioned at the Meet.


----------



## wkosmann

Dear Gino;


I noticed no frame rate sync issues, either with feeding the DVX-8022 60 Hz and outputting 72 Hz, or with feeding the DVX-8022 48 Hz. and outputting 72 Hz. We used both at the Meet.


Where exactly is this "follow frame rate" setting you have mentioned several times. I have looked for it, and cannot find it.


Also, a new DVX-8022 firmware was released in July. Among other things, it adds new output resolutions and seems to increase output levels. The release is 4.22


William


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11994622
> 
> 
> Of course you are my list of those always welcome in my home. You could make the list of "friend for life" if you could find a home for that **** light valve.



But I already found a home for that ampro light valve... your home!










I'm leaving a rear projection frame and first-surface mirror on my front porch for a forum member to pick up tomorrow.


My wife loves it when I get clutter out of the storage room.


Anybody want a Pepsi machine?



> Quote:
> The remotes you have posted are indeed Marquee remotes, and I would like to purchase both from you. I could actually use a spare.



I'll trade you those remotes for about eight great BBQ sandwiches and a couple bottles of wine for Cliff.











> Quote:
> PS: I have no problem driving all the way to Purcellville to pick them up.



You're welcomed to come by any time... even though I only have a single projector and it has 10,000 hours on the tubes. But my availability can be bizarre... I was working in Stafford until 4am last night, plus we're always running the kids around to their activities. I can leave the Marquee remotes on my porch. but it's easiest if I just drop them in the mail. I already have your address.



> Quote:
> PPS: Also, I would like the link to the blend white paper you mentioned at the Meet.


 http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourk...our/edgeblend/


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11994323
> 
> 
> The AVS kick ass award for Best Screenshot for the Blend of course goes to Clarence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I meant to get William to stand next to his screen for a screenshot.


I don't think everyone realizes how big 12' wide really is.


You know, that's another thing that we've glossed over since it was in place last time, but William's SmX acoustically-transparent woven screen and the velvet frame is really incredible. I held a white piece of paper up to it to check for scanlines and was again amazed at the focus-sharpening effect... on screen text looks twice as sharp on the SMX weave as it does on a solid white surface.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11994676
> 
> 
> Dear Gino;
> 
> 
> I noticed no frame rate sync issues, either with feeding the DVX-8022 60 Hz and outputting 72 Hz, or with feeding the DVX-8022 48 Hz. and outputting 72 Hz. We used both at the Meet.
> 
> 
> Where exactly is this "follow frame rate" setting you have mentioned several times. I have looked for it, and cannot find it.



Hi William, congrats on a successful meet. I hope you are more impressed with blending now, but seems once you get the colours down you will be even happier.


I am using the latest firmware on the 8022, but this option has been there from the beginning. If you go to output framerate, instead of choosing 72hz, select follow source instead. An easy test for this would be to display a moving solid white line on a black background, set it to 48hz or 60 hz or 72hz. Then manually select 72hz vs selecting follow source. Watch the white line, if it looks like it is stuttering or tearing it's not syncing quite right. I'm still kinda suprised that you guys didn't notice any problems in this regard, as I can produce it on my own and at Andres place quite easily. I also recall having this issue when trying to get the crystallio at 48hz and 60hz to look good at 72hz.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11994956
> 
> 
> I don't think everyone realizes how big 12' wide really is.



You should see 13' wide







But I'm now considering dropping down to 10' or 10'6" with the SmX material


Did you guys actually measure light output when you were cranking the projectors?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11995071
> 
> 
> Did you guys actually measure light output when you were cranking the projectors?



No, Ken and Terry weren't there and William's CA-1 wouldn't finish initializing, so no color balance measurements and no light meter.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11994797
> 
> 
> I'll trade you those remotes for about eight great BBQ sandwiches and a couple bottles of wine for Cliff.



LOL, that would be like maybe 5 bottles.































Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11994956
> 
> 
> I meant to get William to stand next to his screen for a screenshot.
> 
> 
> I don't think everyone realizes how big 12' wide really is.



Oh wait... I forgot... I did get a screenshot with William next to his 12' screen...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11994956
> 
> 
> I meant to get William to stand next to his screen for a screenshot.
> 
> 
> I don't think everyone realizes how big 12' wide really is.
> 
> 
> You know, that's another thing that we've glossed over since it was in place last time, but William's SmX acoustically-transparent woven screen and the velvet frame is really incredible. I held a white piece of paper up to it to check for scanlines and was again amazed at the focus-sharpening effect... on screen text looks twice as sharp on the SMX weave as it does on a solid white surface.



You got that right. That is one big ass screen especially for CRT and I was suprised how well the Marquee's lit it up. Hmmmm, I wonder.....
























The SMX does for CRT what Adam does to Eve, and I'm not talking about the bad part.

















You gotta love that screen. Simply awesome. Plan on cranking your machine though if you REALLY want to like it.










Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Clarence, that's too funny! The only thing that would be better is to superimpose that pic of Mark laying down in the field smoking over top of a King Kong shot with the T-Rex or something!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11995053
> 
> 
> I also recall having this issue when trying to get the crystallio at 48hz and 60hz to look good at 72hz.



That's something I would love to discuss further with you big dog. How's it going by the way you little stud?


If I had a body like yours I would get ALL the BBitches!










Oh, and for everyone else, NO I AM NOT GAY.


Anyway, the Kong scene, like when you were at my place, BIG DIFFERENCE.


That scene I think is one of the PERFECT examples that multiple exact frame rates are key.


What a difference, the planes going across the sky are MUCH better at 72hz vs. 60hz.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11995071
> 
> 
> You should see 13' wide
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm now considering dropping down to 10' or 10'6" with the SmX material
> 
> 
> Did you guys actually measure light output when you were cranking the projectors?



Hmmmmm, I wonder why?
























Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234

I just realized I had a few pics:


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/11995267
> 
> 
> Clarence, that's too funny! The only thing that would be better is to superimpose that pic of Mark laying down in the field smoking over top of a King Kong shot with the T-Rex or something!


----------



## overclkr

"Phhhhuck that looks AWESOME. Must TURN UP THE SOUND!!!!"



















Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11995327



LMFAQRSTLMNOPQRSTUVWXYV!!!!!!!!!!































Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

Clarence, Dude! I knew you went to work on it the second I hit enter on that post! That's even better than what I was thinking! You rock!


----------



## wallace1234




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11995327



Quick; I need oxygen! I can't breath as I am LMFAO!!!


wallace


----------



## NautikaL

ROFL!!!!!!!! Classic!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11995287
> 
> 
> That's something I would love to discuss further with you big dog.



What did you want to talk about??


> Quote:
> How's it going by the way you little stud?



I've been dating others, but nothing special yet.... there is one though that gave me the wildest 3 days ever! It was like from an episode of Las Vegas or something














(Believe me, it is tough to get wilder than some nights I've had before)


> Quote:
> If I had a body like yours I would get ALL the BBitches!



Dude, I've been hitting the gym hard, especially since the breakup. I've dropped down to 10% bodyfat (lost 22lbs of fat) and put on 11lbs of lean muscle... looking pretty shredded







People are calling me Bruce Lee more often now










> Quote:
> That scene I think is one of the PERFECT examples that multiple exact frame rates are key.
> 
> 
> What a difference, the planes going across the sky are MUCH better at 72hz vs. 60hz.



Do you remember I was trying to show you the judder on that scene at your place and you couldn't see it?


----------



## damon

Good God, look at Haflich!! With only his cigar for protection & that man is fearless!!


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *damon* /forum/post/11997316
> 
> 
> Good God, look at Haflich!! With only his cigar for protection & that man is fearless!!



That cigar should be more than enough, and If not, just go immediately in the lessons from that Joe Kane seminar.


----------



## Clarence

Ahh... so that explains all of Mark's non-stop digital lectures in this thread... he's attempting to scare the dinosaurs?









> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's a single chip DLP





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> three chip digitals





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Joe didn't use or like the auto iris function in the Samsung.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> no CRT blend or stack can surpass what some affordable digitals can do





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The CRT sport is limited by limitations





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Die hard CRTers are a biased group. They tend to write off technologies because of early failings. This is wrong. Cheap current digitals surpass state of the CRT art





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> go digital





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> To maintain the CRT blacks in a stack, gamma correction must be made and Cliffy has made it. a blend doesn't need gamma correction



A stack needs gamma, but a blend doesn't? Mark, is this a fact or an opinion? If that's a fact, please explain. If it's an opinion, nevermind.


----------



## Doug Baisey

You guys bring 'Rat Pack' to my mind every time I see a group picture.







Doug


----------



## damon

Does the 8022 have no provisison for CMS (color management)?


I own one but it is in Alpharetta, GA. until install.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Doug Baisey* /forum/post/11998270
> 
> 
> You guys bring 'Rat Pack' to my mind every time I see a group picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Doug



with MP singing...
_"who can take a Marquee and cover it with mods...

The MPman can 'cause he mixes it with love

and makes the picture look good…

And the picture looks good

'cause William thinks it should…"_


And Cliff walking around singing...
_"you'll do it myyyyyyy waaaaaaayyyy"_


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11998446
> 
> 
> with MP singing...
> _"who can take a Marquee and cover it with mods...
> 
> The MPman can 'cause he mixes it with love
> 
> and makes the picture look good
> 
> And the picture looks good
> 
> 'cause William thinks it should"_
> 
> 
> And Cliff walking around singing...
> _"you'll do it myyyyyyy waaaaaaayyyy"_


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/11996541
> 
> 
> What did you want to talk about??



Gotta take it off the board big dog. Have a couple of questions for you.....


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/11998446
> 
> 
> with MP singing...
> _"who can take a Marquee and cover it with mods...
> 
> The MPman can 'cause he mixes it with love
> 
> and makes the picture look good
> 
> And the picture looks good
> 
> 'cause William thinks it should"_
> 
> 
> And Cliff walking around singing...
> _"you'll do it myyyyyyy waaaaaaayyyy"_



LOL!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## wallace1234

Man I love this family and hood!!!










wallace


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/11994622
> 
> 
> 
> The remotes you have posted are indeed Marquee remotes, and I would like to purchase both from you. I could actually use a spare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William




Those with "Fsync" butttons are for ECP only/


----------



## mark haflich

Clarence, quoting the words "go digital" out of context makes me not want to answer your gamma questions and makes me lose a little of my respect for you. I really don't care about group biases. In many many ways digitals are better than a CRT, that is a fact, just as in some ways CRTs are better, and that is a fact. One can validly choose either. You pays your money. I have a tricked out CRT. But I wish it had twice the brightness and the white field uniformity of a good digital. I wish it didn't need offshore stuff to make it accept encrypted HDMI. I wish it had colors not limited by the SIMPTE C phosphors and the extent that they can be filtered without losing the lumens you can get out without burning up your tubes.


Obviously, you know why a stack needs low level gamma correction because you are summing black levels at the low end which obviously become twice as great in a negative sense as from one projector. Fortunately low level gamma correction or rather adjustment can be applied except perhaps at the lowest point because the projector might not be able to go any lower at that point.


A blend is side by side. There is no summing except in the blend zone and indeed a blender should have gamma correction in the blend zone and I suspect does. However, assuming each projector is right, low level gamma correction should not be needed for the non blend areas for each projector, If the projectors' gamma is not right, then you can correct it one way or the other. If you want to change it from what it should be, it can be adjusted. Just like bumping up the bass or the trebles in a sound system because you like it that way. You pays your money and can do whatever you want. Just like focusing the blue in a system where it needs to be defocused for better gray scale tracking.


The dinasour doesn't scare me. It just wants a cigar. It knows I'd taste terrible.


Some dinasours scare me. Unfortunately those are some people and err machines.


I can be wrong. And when I am, I will quickly admit it. But I could give a rats rear (no astericks here) about whether you value my opinions or not. I will continue to make em as I see fit. I see a lot of stuff. And what I see, whether I see it correctly or not, I'll report it. And you, who I like and think is a fine intelligent person, can go FY.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12002069
> 
> 
> In many many ways digitals are better than a CRT, that is a fact, just as in some ways CRTs are better, and that is a fact



So digital is better in "many" "many" ways, and CRT is only better in "some" ways?


It seems the great video guru really had your ears at that seminar..




> Quote:
> One can validly choose either



Oh, we can? Does this mean, that you will finally stop trying to shove the digital is better opinion of yours down our throats, and let us choose for ourselves?


So when will it be OK with you to let us enjoy our choice of display device? and when will you accept that CRT is our CHOICE, and that we're not a bunch of confused housewives looking to purchase a display device. Therefore we'll need your guidance and recommendations on what is the best and what we should be using in our systems.




> Quote:
> *I can be wrong*. And when I am, I will quickly admit it



As I've said to you over the phone, you were wrong for posting that digital crap in this thread, yet you won't admit it.




> Quote:
> But I could give a rats rear (no astericks here) about whether you value my opinions or not. I will continue to make em as I see fit. I see a lot of stuff. And what I see, whether I see it correctly or not, I'll report it. And you, who I like and think is a fine intelligent person, can go FY



You really should be banned from the forum.. Now that's my opinion. And I'll go further here because your ignorance pisses me off... whenever someone invites you out to their house for an event that is special to them, you should have enough decency to respect the event and respect what's going on at the event. If you disagree with the technology and cannot at the same time respect what's going on - don't show up.


To come to an event that you disagree with the technology that is being highlighted at that event, and then to come back to the thread that specifically deals with that event and post a bunch of negative comments against that particular setup, is one of the lowest things that I've seen happen in a very long time on these forums.


I said these things to you on the phone the other day and today. And you still seem to not understand how to be sensitive concerning things that involves others and their choices, and have absolutely nothing to do with you.


----------



## mark haflich

Yea. I should be band just as you should be band because Alan had to close a thread because of your posts about a shoot out. But its OK, you can do no wrong, in your mind you had every right to post what you did in the way you did it. Well you were wrong and way way way out of line. And nothing you ever say can justify those posts and what you said. Nothing. But you will go to your grave thinking that it was justified.


I have no problem with William and he has no problem with me. I will do anything I can to help him.


I am expressing my opinion about two different technologies and what I think both do, I will continue to compare new digitals to state of the art CRT, singles, stack and blends. I still have a CRT and I enjoy it. And I wouldn't have it except for the wonders you have done to it and the help from many here keeping it up.


Unlike many here I see new consumer digitals all the time. I think healthy discussion is good. I am not brained washed by anybody or any thing. OK I used to be susceptable to ***** whipping from a whole flock of *******. But that was some time ago.


A solution for you and any others to my posts is simple. Anybody can put me on their ignore list. As long as someone doesn't hit the copy buttion when posting in response, nobody has to read it!


I won't ignore anyone in CRT land. If I can help somebody and somebody asks for it, I will gladly help.


Its OK to ban digital trolls. I am not one. I am a CRT guy giving his opinion.


Art has often stated why he switched to a big bulb. It was to him the sum of the areas in which the bulb exceeded the sum of the stacked CRTs that made him want to switch. To gain in those areas, he was willing to sacrifice the aereas in which CRTs exceeded the bulb. If he valued the sum of those areas higher than the sum of the bulb benefits he wouldn't have switched. Some might quarrel that he made the wrong decisions. Others would agree with it. Some are concerned with new technogy rapid depreciation. Others like Art really don't care. Anybody can make the choice they think is right. Congratultions on your decision. Enjoy. That's all that counts.


People weight factors or qualities differently. Thats all. And we here are all fortunate to be able to make a choice. AND DON'T YOU THINK BECAUSE I POST SOMETHING ABOUT DIGITAL HERE THAT I DON'T RESPECT THE CHOICE MADE BY CLIFFY, WILLIAM, MARK, AND OTHERS. William will end up with a great system. You know it, I know it, and William knows it. And the only reason it will be great is because of you and some others. You are the CRT man and despite how you posted in the shoot out thread, you are a good person with a big heart, even if your pig headedness and ego, won't let you see when you are wrong. And if I could ban you, I wouldn't ban you, and that has nothing to do with your contributions to the CRT world.


----------



## mark haflich

I am really glad I am not married to MP. I wouldn't be getting any tonight.


----------



## wallace1234

Once again, God I love this family!
































wallace


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12003516
> 
> 
> Yea. I should be band just as you should be band because Alan had to close a thread because of your posts about a shoot out. But its OK, you can do no wrong, in your mind you had every right to post what you did in the way you did it. Well you were wrong and way way way out of line. And nothing you ever say can justify those posts and what you said. Nothing. But you will go to your grave thinking that it was justified



That thread involved me, and it was not shut down because I Invaded someone else thread. Nor did I post on a thread something that i read or heard somewhere else, that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the contents or direction of the thread.


The THREAD was about a shootout between what I'm doing and what someone else was doing...




> Quote:
> I have no problem with William and he has no problem with me. I will do anything I can to help him



Yes, William is a very nice guy and a great person to know, But to say "I will do anything I can to help him" and to have done what you have. must mean that you have two things going on with you at the same time that you are totally unaware of.


Or is this like pushing someone down the stairs, and then running to pick them up at the bottom of the steps?




> Quote:
> I am expressing my opinion about two different technologies and what I think both do, I will continue to compare new digitals to state of the art CRT, singles, stack and blends.













Hey Mark. Look back over the thread. And when you do, please show me where William, or anyone else involved in this asked you or anybody else their opinion on blending, stacking and how it compares or relates to digital technology?




> Quote:
> Unlike many here I see new consumer digitals all the time



And how is that relevant to a blend meet?




> Quote:
> A solution for you and any others to my posts is simple. Anybody can put me on their ignore list. As long as someone doesn't hit the copy buttion when posting in response, nobody has to read it!
> 
> 
> I won't ignore anyone in CRT land. If I can help somebody and somebody asks for it, I will gladly help.
> 
> 
> Its OK to ban digital trolls. I am not one. I am a CRT guy giving his opinion.
> 
> 
> Art has often stated why he switched to a big bulb. It was to him the sum of the areas in which the bulb exceeded the sum of the stacked CRTs that made him want to switch. To gain in those areas, he was willing to sacrifice the aereas in which CRTs exceeded the bulb. If he valued the sum of those areas higher than the sum of the bulb benefits he wouldn't have switched. Some might quarrel that he made the wrong decisions. Others would agree with it. Some are concerned with new technogy rapid depreciation. Others like Art really don't care. Anybody can make the choice they think is right. Congratultions on your decision. Enjoy. That's all that counts.
> 
> 
> People weight factors or qualities differently. Thats all. And we here are all fortunate to be able to make a choice. AND DON'T YOU THINK BECAUSE I POST SOMETHING ABOUT DIGITAL HERE THAT I DON'T RESPECT THE CHOICE MADE BY CLIFFY, WILLIAM, MARK, AND OTHERS. William will end up with a great system. You know it, I know it, and William knows it. And the only reason it will be great is because of you and some others. You are the CRT man and despite how you posted in the shoot out thread, you are a good person with a big heart, even if your pig headedness and ego, won't let you see when you are wrong. And if I could ban you, I wouldn't ban you, and that has nothing to do with your contributions to the CRT world.



Mark, it's not about being right or wrong. it's about being able to do what's right. And when we're able to put doing what's right before being right, it's then that we become better people. In other words, If it has been pointed out to me that I may somehow offend or be a problem for someone 'unnecessarily' then it should be more important for me to not offend. And when I'm thinking that I'm just that ahead of things that I feel obligated to do whatever I think, because I'm right, and everyone else involved needs my input. then without a doubt, something ain't right on the top floor.


You're really a good hearted person. I only wish your thinking lined up with your heart..


Being insensitive, is a serious problem. It's the same defect found in the criminal mind. they too seems to think that they're right regardless of what they do...


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12002069
> 
> 
> Clarence, quoting the words "go digital" out of context makes me not want to answer your gamma questions and makes me lose a little of my respect for you.



How is it out of context? The full context is already there for everyone who read it...


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> wild horses could not get me to attempt a blend. A stack yes, but a blend no way.
> 
> 
> Keep the screen size 8ft wide or less and great cost effective results can be easily achieved with a MP modded Marquee and a Moome card or a G90 with Moome or stacked same if you want a wider screen. Or go digital but I think we are still a year away before digitals completely eclipse CRT performance. A 30K 1080p Sim2 C3X will get you very close and coming (next year) sub $10K to $15K digitals will get you there.




So, in context, in lieu of blending, you give the following options:
go small
stack G90s
or go digital

William doesn't want to go small. He's not going to stack G90s. So, *in context*, what's a concise summary of the option that you're proposing?


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> go digital


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Mark Hafflich


With regards to your comments here, I believe it is time for you to Zeep Eet shut.......


----------



## NautikaL

Digital has advantages and disadvantages. CRT has advantages and disadvantages. Leave it at that and be done.


Sheesh... this is like Vinyl vs. Digital on audiophile forums, except people don't usually get so emotional about it







.


----------



## wallace1234

Stop hell! This reminds me a watching a family reunion of about 3 generations including moms, dads, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, dogs, cats, WTF!










A lot of BS might get exchanged here, but, I have seen the live 'n in person version. As Cliff would say, "It's all good".


Just my opinion.


wallace


----------



## overclkr

Hi.










Cliffy


----------



## mark haflich

Red Sox 13, Rockies 1.


Picture looked exceptionally good. I'd post screen shots of the score board except that would violate certain tenents of my belief system.


This week is going to be a test of my CRT. Thursday night we have the Red Sox/Rockies and the BC/Va Tecc game overlapping. Thanks for the DVR. Fri afternoon its Breeders Cup. Sat afternoon its Breeders Cup and Sat night its Rockies/Red Sox. Sunday aft its NFL (second game Red Skins/Patriots) and then Sunday evening its Rockies/Red Sox. Monday night its NFL and most likely Red Sox/Rockies (assuming the Rockies have one at least one of the first four).


My Blue Ray player will be getting a long rest


Gotta go. Time to go out and buy a big box of cigars to get me through all this (OK its three AM, I'm really going to bed but I'll get the cigars tomorrow). Now that DTV has all those new HD Channels I have to change out my multiswitch from a narrow band to a wide band width one. The narrow bandwidth switch blocks certain channels fooling the receiver into that displaying script that the antenna can't locate one of the Sats.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12007442
> 
> 
> Picture looked exceptionally good



How's your vision these days?




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am expressing my opinion about two different technologies and what I think both do, I will continue to compare new digitals to state of the art CRT



We've set the date for the next phase of the blend meet, which will be a mini meet and we've already decided to do it next month again at Williams. We'll also be evaluating a not yet released digital source item. And hope to have something relating to HD-SDI to look at as well.


Now knowing what you think about about blending, it's good to know you'll not be attending this next meet.


----------



## mark haflich

My vision is fine. My ocular myestinea makes my left eye lid droop. When watching I can raise it by slight finger pressure at top of the eye lid. I do wear reading glasses but otherwise my vision is fine. A drooping eye lid is like an iris. When it droops or shuts it restricts the total amount of light in. Also only having one eye open SOMETIMES means I have to move my head a lot when driving. Sometimes my left eye opens. Last night for the first half of the game it was open without me having to prop it open. At the meet I did some propping. Driving at night any great distance wears me out. Thanks for asking.










I think, no I know, MP is is taking a shot at my visual ability to compare PQ technological results. For some reason he wants to discredit my comparison of what I saw Saturday morning (digital) vis a vis Saturday afternoon (CRT blend). In a phone call he said unless I had measurements I shouldn't say anything. What pathetic bull fecal. Pathetic. My insensitivity means I have certrain brain characteristics common to the criminal mind? I get it. Throw Haflich in jail before he commits a crime. Ban him. I get it. Send him to the digital getto. That's it. Brilliant! While helping someone with equipment etc is helping someone, somehow noting that set up was incompleted and the image because of that was lessthan stellarer negates the help. Saying that to do a blend is a ***** when it is a ***** makes me no good. If my neck was longer I'd bite my rear. Woof.


Lets see. Better to believe the CRT set up people about the awesome results they obtained. Not that they would lie, they wouldn't. But them mostly being touching feely right wing conservatives with a modicum of political sense (what a world, they all are really touchy feelies and great people) might make them refrain from posting certain things. Believe me, I have refrained from saying a lot of things here. A lot.


This first and second meet were billed by the host as a demonstration of CRT blend technology. Both turned out to be a demonstration of how much work and what work is necessary to do a blend set up. Nothing wrong with that. Not the host's fault. All had a great time and ll learned. However, after a year or so it would be nice to see a finished demo. Art and Ken did it with their G90 stack and so did Cliffy. But normally in the CRT world there always will be something wrong. Not calibrated, one machine out of focus, couldn't fix it because . . . . bad this board, that board, the stripper broke, its back in Asia being fixed. Hell this happens with just one projector. But tadah, mine is now up and running and boy am I enjoying it just as William is enjoying his and his will only get better.










I am sorry but I can't attend every meet I am invited to or for that matter any meet that I am not invited to. I don't enjoy watching projectors being set up or trying to be set up. This last meet became an essentially a come and help set it up on Friday night which turned into we'll do it all day and night Saturday because of a variety of nobody's fault uncontrollable factors. Fecal happens, I really do understand.


For the first meet, yet alone the second, Tim asked me to bring sales personnel to see how good a CRT blended can look.


The next meet I assume will also involve set up with other CRT set up experts from around the country coming in. CRT blending for the HT market is a work in progress. One needs to have a complete skill set like Gino and then have help from others such as MP to supply modded parts. The right end user lacking all the skills but with enough money or basic make up (good person with the patience of Job) and infinite time and patience might get it done if the right people are willing to come in. The world is not populated with CRT blend set up experts. There are more endangered panda bears in the world than folks that can do this. A lot more.


Keep taking shots at me. I can take it. And you must be right because you are in the group majority and I am a minority here. OK You know how I feel based on what I have seen so far so I won't be invited to the next clan meeting.


Come and keep trying to get me. You will fail miserably because I am a good, intelligent person with a willingness to help, or better yet just say why bother. It is only visually impaired Mark. Remind you of something very bad in American history? It does me.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12009744
> 
> 
> My vision is fine. My ocular myestinea makes my left eye lid droop. When watching I can raise it by slight finger pressure at top of the eye lid. I do wear reading glasses but otherwise my vision is fine. A drooping eye lid is like an iris. When it droops or shuts it restricts the total amount of light in. Also only having one eye open SOMETIMES means I have to move my head a lot when driving. Sometimes my left eye opens. Last night for the first half of the game it was open without me having to prop it open. At the meet I did some propping. Driving at night any great distance wears me out. Thanks for asking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think, no I know, MP is is taking a shot at my visual ability to compare PQ technological results. For some reason he wants to discredit my comparison of what I saw Saturday morning (digital) vis a vis Saturday afternoon (CRT blend). In a phone call he said unless I had measurements I shouldn't say anything. What pathetic bull fecal. Pathetic. My insensitivity means I have certrain brain characteristics common to the criminal mind? I get it. Throw Haflich in jail before he commits a crime. Ban him. I get it. Send him to the digital getto. That's it. Brilliant! While helping someone with equipment etc is helping someone, somehow noting that set up was incompleted and the image because of that was lessthan stellarer negates the help. Saying that to do a blend is a ***** when it is a ***** makes me no good. If my neck was longer I'd bite my rear. Woof.
> 
> 
> Lets see. Better to believe the CRT set up people about the awesome results they obtained. Not that they would lie, they wouldn't. But them mostly being touching feely right wing conservatives with a modicum of political sense (what a world, they all are really touchy feelies and great people) might make them refrain from posting certain things. Believe me, I have refrained from saying a lot of things here. A lot.
> 
> 
> This first and second meet were billed by the host as a demonstration of CRT blend technology. Both turned out to be a demonstration of how much work and what work is necessary to do a blend set up. Nothing wrong with that. Not the host's fault. All had a great time and ll learned. However, after a year or so it would be nice to see a finished demo. Art and Ken did it with their G90 stack and so did Cliffy. But normally in the CRT world there always will be something wrong. Not calibrated, one machine out of focus, couldn't fix it because . . . . bad this board, that board, the stripper broke, its back in Asia being fixed. Hell this happens with just one projector. But tadah, mine is now up and running and boy am I enjoying it just as William is enjoying his and his will only get better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry but I can't attend every meet I am invited to or for that matter any meet that I am not invited to. I don't enjoy watching projectors being set up or trying to be set up. This last meet became an essentially a come and help set it up on Friday night which turned into we'll do it all day and night Saturday because of a variety of nobody's fault uncontrollable factors. Fecal happens, I really do understand.
> 
> 
> For the first meet, yet alone the second, Tim asked me to bring sales personnel to see how good a CRT blended can look.
> 
> 
> The next meet I assume will also involve set up with other CRT set up experts from around the country coming in. CRT blending for the HT market is a work in progress. One needs to have a complete skill set like Gino and then have help from others such as MP to supply modded parts. The right end user lacking all the skills but with enough money or basic make up (good person with the patience of Job) and infinite time and patience might get it done if the right people are willing to come in. The world is not populated with CRT blend set up experts. There are more endangered panda bears in the world than folks that can do this. A lot more.
> 
> 
> Keep taking shots at me. I can take it. And you must be right because you are in the group majority and I am a minority here. OK You know how I feel based on what I have seen so far so I won't be invited to the next clan meeting.
> 
> 
> Come and keep trying to get me. You will fail miserably because I am a good, intelligent person with a willingness to help, or better yet just say why bother. It is only visually impaired Mark. Remind you of something very bad in American history? It does me.




blah blah blah blah..blah blah......blah blah blah........and a few more blahs..


----------



## mp20748

A few more of the shots that we took the next day after the meet. The projectors were not quite warmed up, so you'll see convergence off in some areas, and a slight shift on the blend zone. But I'm still stoked at the level of detail that was on that 12' wide screen.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I'm glad to see everyone in good spirits dam I wish I could have made it. Clarence you crack me up.


----------



## Catdaddy67

Clarence,


Thats a funny ass picture. Thanks for not having the dinosaur stand up and get a little closer to mark's cigar. That might have added a whole new meaning to the words "Cigar Smoking" that I dont know if I could have handled this late in the evening.


I got to admit though, those CRT pics look damn good. 8)


----------



## mp20748

Next week I'll be returning to finish up those astig dots. They were not quite were I wanted them, and will also do the color balance and post more shots. And from there we'll be gearing up for next month..










A few more.


These shots are still from an un-calibrated blend setup:


----------



## mp20748

Here's a few more. I heakd back on posting them because they're bit too hot, but what the heck, I'll post them anyway.

*blended 9500's on a 12' wide screen*


----------



## mp20748

I'm now at the bottom of the barrow with these.


----------



## mp20748

I'll get back to this that was posted on the 24th after the meet:




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12009744
> 
> 
> My vision is fine. My ocular myestinea makes my left eye lid droop. When watching I can raise it by slight finger pressure at top of the eye lid. I do wear reading glasses but otherwise my vision is fine. A drooping eye lid is like an iris. When it droops or shuts it restricts the total amount of light in. Also only having one eye open SOMETIMES means I have to move my head a lot when driving. Sometimes my left eye opens. Last night for the first half of the game it was open without me having to prop it open. At the meet I did some propping. Driving at night any great distance wears me out. Thanks for asking.



Don't forget that I had reminded you that you had been telling people at Art's meet that you had a problem seeing clearly. This has nothing to do with one of your eyes being closed. And to say that there's nothing wrong with your vision is far from what myself and so many others have known for years. In fact, you're always talking of how your vision has gotten worse.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think, no I know, MP is is taking a shot at my visual ability to compare PQ technological results. For some reason he wants to discredit my comparison of what I saw Saturday morning (digital) vis a vis Saturday afternoon (CRT blend)



Nope. I asked the question to remind you of our phone conversation. And in that same phone conversation you said after I had to also remind you "I just can't see things sharp"


Much like the phone conversation where you told me your friend did not want you to smoke a cigar. I mentioned it on the forum, and you denied it. I spoke with you again on that, and you then agreed with me, but there was a reason for him to tell you that.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> In a phone call he said unless I had measurements I shouldn't say anything What pathetic bull fecal. Pathetic.



I never said anything like that. Why would anyone need measurements to give their opinion? And I NEVER said the you should not have said anything. I said you were wrong to post all that you did about that seminar in this thread.


Posting about your opinion of a digital product compared to what you saw is nothing. It was just your opinion based on what you saw. High jacking the thread to discuss that seminar was the only problem I had with it.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My insensitivity means I have certrain brain characteristics common to the criminal mind?



absolutely. And I hope this helps. There were people who told us there wee not coming to the meet because they know you were going to turn it into a circus. William and I had discussed this prior to the meet, and that Is why I had that phone conversation with you. Now it seems that you misunderstood everything I was trying to get across to you. In essence I was asking you to not be Mark.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> somehow noting that set up was incompleted and the image because of that was lessthan stellarer negates the help



Well, to have done so after the hoster had explained to you himself, that it would not be complete. Both he and I had explained what was going on, and what our goal was. So once again. That meet was about progress, and the work to get there. We only hoped to have one source fully functional. But we had also planned to show other things that were not a part of the calibration. But to comment on the image KNOWING that we were not able to get the projectors calibrated, was LOW.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Saying that to do a blend is a ***** when it is a ***** makes me no good



Not really. Blends are the most difficult to setup of the technology. But blends is the best of the technology, and that's why it's still being used in commercial applications. The people who chose blending for their HT, were well aware of the work involved. It's not for everyone.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lets see. Better to believe the CRT set up people about the awesome results they obtained. Not that they would lie, they wouldn't. But them mostly being touching feely right wing conservatives with a modicum of political sense (what a world, they all are really touchy feelies and great people) might make them refrain from posting certain things. Believe me, I have refrained from saying a lot of things here. A lot



I'm puzzled here.. who are you attacking in these remarks? I'm not a "far right wing conservative"


A good and fair practice would be to tell people what you think to their face, or call them over the phone and let them have it. But the best way to prove that you're not a touchy feely kind of guy, would be to become known for also being able to say what you think and feel to a persons face.




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> *This first and second meet were billed by the host as a demonstration of CRT blend technology. Both turned out to be a demonstration of how much work and what work is necessary to do a blend set up*. Nothing wrong with that. Not the host's fault. All had a great time and ll learned



Now look at post #272 / 10/17/07 and hopefully you'll see how you've twisted things beyond what you were told:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11930186
> 
> *Parker. I have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about me being biased last time.
> 
> 
> Even the host views this as an ongoing research project that perhaps 50 people in the entire world care anything at all about. Of the people in attendance, I doubt anyone will ever do a blend CRT HT. This will be a great party with lots of friends including a great host. We will be allowed into a CRT lab to see the latest research results which will continue to evolve over the meet as people pull and insert cards and equipment, change things, and adjust over the meet. Six months from now, this will continue to be a CRT lab and will never be a finished HT. That's OK.*



Does this reveal something Mark?





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However, after a year or so it would be nice to see a finished demo. Art and Ken did it with their G90 stack and so did Cliffy. But normally in the CRT world there always will be something wrong. Not calibrated, one machine out of focus, couldn't fix it because . . . . bad this board, that board, the stripper broke, its back in Asia being fixed. Hell this happens with just one projector. But tadah, mine is now up and running and boy am I enjoying it just as William is enjoying his and his will only get better.



Actually, this is only 5 months later and it's not a continuation. And to be fair, a stack is really easy. Blending is a whole different system. Once done right it is the creme of large screen CRT display technology. Try and understand that blending combines multiple 4:3 images side by side. And that makes for a far better image than a vertically squeezed 1080P image on a CRT raster. When done right, you can take advantage of almost running any resolution on the tube face, to include being able to get the absolute best resolution performance possible from CRT... and this is what we're going to prove later - stay tuned!


And don't forget that Cliff had also tried blending, and had shared how he was up until 6am the morning of his blend meet. And anyone that really wants the best from any display technology, would have to invest time and money. I read a ways back on this forum, where it took 12 hours to calibrate a Ruby (digital).


And since most of us are hobbiest, it's all good!




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am sorry but I can't attend every meet I am invited to or for that matter any meet that I am not invited to. *I don't enjoy watching projectors being set up or trying to be set up*. This last meet became an essentially a come and help set it up on Friday night which turned into we'll do it all day and night Saturday because of a variety of nobody's fault uncontrollable factors. Fecal happens, I really do understand



You posted this after the meet...


Once more, and this was posted on the 17th before the meet by you:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/11930186
> 
> *Parker. I have absolutely no idea what you are babbling about me being biased last time.
> 
> 
> Even the host views this as an ongoing research project that perhaps 50 people in the entire world care anything at all about. Of the people in attendance, I doubt anyone will ever do a blend CRT HT. This will be a great party with lots of friends including a great host. We will be allowed into a CRT lab to see the latest research results which will continue to evolve over the meet as people pull and insert cards and equipment, change things, and adjust over the meet. Six months from now, this will continue to be a CRT lab and will never be a finished HT. That's OK.*



Now my response on in that same thread, on 10/17/07:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/11930457
> 
> 
> Dang, that William is pretty good. After having lunch with you once, you now seem to come across with a better understanding of these things. I've been trying this with you for years, and this is this first time I've seen you arrive here.
> 
> *However, we do intend to wrap this up as a finished project. And we're aware of the time it's going to take to get there, but for now our goal is phase 1. Which was our desire for the meet. And later when the sources are more refined and prices settle on some other things, we'll then move onto phase 2. But for now, we see this as a start to a top notch system.
> 
> 
> I'm just so excited to be a part of it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, I love to fellowship with good people. And these meets can set the stage for that to happen.
> 
> 
> So this weekend, we're going to Middle (of nowhere) burg), and have a great time with some really nice folk to be around..
> 
> 
> Man I love this hobby..*








> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The next meet I assume will also involve set up with other CRT set up experts from around the country coming in. CRT blending for the HT market is a work in progress. One needs to have a complete skill set like Gino and then have help from others such as MP to supply modded parts. The right end user lacking all the skills but with enough money or basic make up (good person with the patience of Job) and infinite time and patience might get it done if the right people are willing to come in. The world is not populated with CRT blend set up experts. There are more endangered panda bears in the world than folks that can do this. A lot more



I was contacted a few days ago, and learned that there's another person that will be doing a BLEND.. I know you did not want to see that, but another blend system is being birth right under your watch..




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Keep taking shots at me. I can take it



There's no need to take shot at you. You've been shooting at everything around you for years, but can't see that you're bleeding from your own weapon..




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> so I won't be invited to the next clan meeting



Thanks for understanding..



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *haflich* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Come and keep trying to get me. You will fail miserably because I am a good, intelligent person with a willingness to help, or better yet just say why bother. It is only visually impaired Mark



Don't forget, you're not supposed to be "visually impaired" this week.


----------



## mark haflich

I stand by everything I said. Everything.


My eye problem is ocular myeesthenia. Eye lids drooping and eyeballs not tracking movement horizontally. I can compensate for the horizontal tracking when driving by moving my head from side to side, If my left eyeld droops shut, that is a big pain. It comes and goes, Its here now a lot. Right now its wide open. I never complained about nor do I have blury vision or unsharp vision. but my eyes are not at the sharpness of a 21 year old. I don't see scan lines at 720p on my 110"D when viewing at 12.5 feet while my much younger nephew (21 or so)does. he doesn't see them at 15 feet. Like most others over 60 my eyes aren't as sharp as they used to be, but my distance viewing is close to 20/20 and I do not need to wear corrective distance glasses. Reading glasses I need to wear big time, I don't suffer from any diabetic disability to my eyes yet and I have been diabetic since I ave 22, now for a total of 40 years. As I get older (hopefully that will happen) my lenses will cloud somewhat and I assumei will need some corrective surgery. But not now.


I have known about Mark Conners blend which will happen soon, Mark as yu know is a friend. and i have given him some logistical help with it as you well know. Nothing big but if he needs me to do something, he knows I am there for him, like I am here for all others here. Clifffy, Wiliam, Wallace, Jeff all know it. Mark was not at the second set up session/meet. Thats why I said no one there would be doing one.


Your long post says absolutely nothing but if it makes you feel good than I suppose its a good thing.


Your posts can't change the truth and your perceptions about cigars at Bruce's and my eye condition are simply inaccurate but I do understand how dspareately you want to discredit my veracity and visual observations or my ability to make them. You ought to be ashamed of your self, and I am ashamed of you here.


CRT blending may be the best now but bulbs are advncing so quickly you and I and everyone knows they will fully surpass CRTs and blended CRTs in the every near future. Top of the HT line digitals may be expensive but so is doing a CRT blend.


Right now I wish I could get rid of a band on my CRT..I've tried a green grid set up after setting my vertical and horizontal bows to 50. The green grid appears close to perfect but everytime I redo it, the band appears in the same spot. Convergence reinitialization of red and blue does not help. Its not real bad but I wish I could get rid of it. I'd appreciate helpfrom you or anyone here.


I keep admiring how great your mods have made my PQ.


I am not mad at you. I am here to help when you need and ask for it. Just as you are usually here for me.


You are still my bro and I am yours. Jeff, don't cry.









.


When I talked to you over the phone about not being able to smoke a cigar at Bruce's, the reason was that another guest was in the HT when I was watching the game with Bruce and the other guest did not like smoke. Bruce lit up his pipe and I lit up a humungous stokey when the other guest left. I am sorry you misunderstood that. But it's OK. I know you don't like my cigars.


----------



## Alan Gouger

Guys, an interesting article showing some hi tech blend. They are using digitals which you can see along the top. Id love a 360 setup.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/military-...o-3-315435.php


----------



## garyfritz

Guys. You have both made your point, repeatedly. May I please suggest that this personal argument has no place in a public forum? If you want to continue it, I for one would appreciate it if you would take your private disagreement to a private discussion.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/12043106
> 
> 
> Guys, an interesting article showing some hi tech blend. They are using digitals which you can see along the top. Id love a 360 setup.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/military-...o-3-315435.php



There's a bunch of digital blends out there. I have a setup north of here where they're using 6 Christie Digital Mirages (3 chip DLP) in a multi-display setup. This setup uses four of the Mirages in blend.


It's using 3DP blender, which is the best I've seen so far. It's actually a PC like computer, with special processor cards installed. each of the processor cards have two DVI ports on them. One is for input, and the other is output. They are called "processor" cards because they do not get their video from the mother board.


The 3DP has a keyboard, mouse and monitor. There's a ton of features in it, but the blend section is the best. It's not your usual blend control where nothing in th menu makes any practical sense.


And soon, I'll be taking on another system. I understand to have more Mirages, but not sure what the setup is.


Though digitals can get bright and fill very large screens, a lot of the digital blends I'm seeing, are very similar to the CRT ones. the seem to be firing these huge digital projectors on small screen areas and blending them together on multi-display screens.


I've also noticed that 4:3 is out. Everything seems to be similar to 16:9 And all of the systems are using Dolby 5.1 or DTS sound systems. And some are connected to and driven by SGI Super Computers.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/12043106
> 
> 
> Guys, an interesting article showing some hi tech blend. They are using digitals which you can see along the top. Id love a 360 setup.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/military-...o-3-315435.php



Nice find, Alan.


Here's the "Mersive" blending box the USAF/Lockheed project is using...










http://www.mersive.com/ 


$7500 MSRP. Not bad, relatively speaking.


----------



## mp20748

We're looking at doing a mini meet on the 17th of November again at Williams.


This particular meet will be to check out the Blend setup using a pure digital path from the source device to the projectors (or possibly analog to the two 9500LC's).


We plan to look at *HDMI* to *DVI* into the 8022.


We also plan to look at *HDMI* to *HD-SDI* into the 8022.


There will be a pre-evaluation of the mentioned devices before the day of the meet. And on the day of the meet, the event will be a demonstration of the entire system using the devices mentioned.


You may bring your favorite Blu-Ray or HD-DVD media..


PM me if interested..


----------



## dropzone7

Wow, a perfectly blended display in just about 2 minutes. Kind of takes the fun out of it but very impressive.


----------



## NautikaL

I should be able to make it and I'll bring the following on HD-DVD:


Backdraft

Batman Begins

Blazing Saddles

The Bourne Identity

Constantine

The Departed

DVE HD-DVD

The Italian Job

The Last Samurai

The Matrix Complete Trilogy

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow

Seabiscuit

U-571

V for Vendetta

We Were Soldiers


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NautikaL* /forum/post/12044922
> 
> 
> I should be able to make it and I'll bring the following on HD-DVD:
> 
> 
> Backdraft
> 
> Batman Begins
> 
> Blazing Saddles
> 
> The Bourne Identity
> 
> Constantine
> 
> The Departed
> 
> DVE HD-DVD
> 
> The Italian Job
> 
> The Last Samurai
> 
> The Matrix Complete Trilogy
> 
> Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
> 
> Seabiscuit
> 
> U-571
> 
> V for Vendetta
> 
> We Were Soldiers




Jeff, don't you want to make a trip down South here to lend a brotha a hand?


----------



## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12044991
> 
> 
> Jeff, don't you want to make a trip down South here to lend a brotha a hand?



lol the best part is I haven't watched any of those yet (on HD-DVD). Still waiting on my wilsonart screen and then I get to completely redo the setup from scratch. At least I sized/centered the rasters and did the first parts of the color calibration though (G2 voltage calibration).


----------



## mark haflich

Is it really MSRP $7500? It's designed to control a computer source, will it control normal HT sources or a VP, I wonder? You would also need a video camera and it looks like a motorized servo tripod head to let the blender move the camera to where it wants it to aim on the screen. The company is located in Lexington KY. A frequent haunt of mine. I will be spending 10 days in Lexington in early April. I could check it out then if anyone is interested.


----------



## Jim Parys

Interesting product..question is the SOL server sends the calibartion information to the computer. How does the computer talk with say two CRT projectors? via RS232 ports?


----------



## antorsae

Jim. I don't think it sends calibration information to the PJs. I believe this system requires:


- Good match of colors across projectors.

- Not perfect geometry

- Not perfect (brightness) uniformity


Takes a few pics and bends the picture to be sent to each PJ for geometry plus it applies an geometric alpha mask (possibly for each color) for the appropriate balancing on the blend zones(s).


Maybe the SDK they have is intended for talking to PJs and receiving color information, etc.


BTW, I am working on a SW application that:


- Takes pics with a digital camera (Canon 400D) in RAW format. The camera settings will be in MANUAL mode with aperture and exposition time such as dynamic range is enough to get from on/off in the PJs w/o clipping. *DONE*


- Reads the LINEAR data off the CMOS sensors of the camera. Show an histogram of the linear 16-bit data captured from the camera for the image. Note that although processing is done in 16-bit, my camera only provides 12-bits of resolution. *DONE*


- With a known test pattern on the screen, asks the user to identify where various (known) areas of the test pattern are within the taken pic. I intend to take a 0-100 IRE stair-step and sample where each IRE step is AND measure "black" areas close to each stairstep to compensate for (poor) CRT ANSI contrast. *PENDING*


- Ask the user for a known whitepoint to use as a reference. I could for example calibrate one PJ whitepoint to D65K (easy) and use it; or get a D65K lightsource. *PENDING*


- Control the Ultras via RS232 to adjust G2/Drive for each channel to match whitepoint R G B proportions. As the spectrum response of the CRT tubes slightly different than that of the color filters in the camera I'll have to take 3 pics R G B selecting ONLY the associated color in the PJs and discarding the byproduct readings on the camera (e.g. if you show a B only screen, the camera still reads some G information; so that's why I need to the above). *PENDING*


When the above if finished, you'd have the two PJs with very close if not identical color calibrations. And now:


- Measure a 256-point gamma curve: light intensity (values read off the CMOS sensors) vs. IRE stimuli. Write the ideal blend curve for a given blend zone width. Send the blend curve to the DVX-8022 via ethernet. *PENDING*


All of the above assumes that you have previously nailed magnetics, geometry, convergence, optical, color uniformity, blend zone convergence and brightness across the two PJs.


So in short this system will be aimed to match the colors of two projectors and generate an ideal blend curve for them. In my experience, this is the most difficult part of having a seamless blend.


My progress is slow, but I will update when/if anything relevant comes out.


Regards,


Andres


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## Boilermaker

I live about one mile from them in Lexington and will pay them a visit. Probably won't be able to get there this week, but will early next week for sure and report what I find.


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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/12054738
> 
> 
> BTW, I am working on a SW application that:
> 
> 
> - Takes pics with a digital camera (Canon 400D) in RAW format. The camera settings will be in MANUAL mode with aperture and exposition time such as dynamic range is enough to get from on/off in the PJs w/o clipping. *DONE*
> 
> 
> - Reads the LINEAR data off the CMOS sensors of the camera. Show an histogram of the linear 16-bit data captured from the camera for the image. Note that although processing is done in 16-bit, my camera only provides 12-bits of resolution. *DONE*
> 
> 
> - Ask the user for a known whitepoint to use as a reference. I could for example calibrate one PJ whitepoint to D65K (easy) and use it; or get a D65K lightsource. *PENDING*



Nice!


I was thinking the exact same thing the last couple of weeks while playing with the manual WB settings in my 400D... the color balance sensor in these Canons have to be 100x better than the cheap monitor color sensors.


Sounds like you've made good progress already.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12041421
> 
> 
> I am not mad at you. I am here to help when you need and ask for it. Just as you are usually here for me.
> 
> 
> You are still my bro and I am yours



LOL... now this makes my day..










The youngens 'round here use the word 'Green' - which is the same as being naive, or in this case, not being street-wise. me green..










I say we keep the game going... it's only been about 6 months now. And I've yet to play my hand..


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/12044890
> 
> 
> Wow, a perfectly blended display in just about 2 minutes



It's not perfect. look at it again. The colors are not matching overall.


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## wkosmann

Dear Andres;


Can't wait to try out your auto grey scale calibration software, when you come to one of my upcoming East Coast BlendZilla Meets!


This is among the last of the steps needed to make my blend zone completely disappear. I can only see it on 100 IRE screens (fade to white) and on a very very few low IRE scenes. This after only an eye ball grey scale calibration and Cliffy working his DiventiX magic on adjusting the slope of the blend function in the BlendZilla.


William


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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/12055226
> 
> 
> It's not perfect. look at it again. The colors are not matching overall.



I agree... the Mersive screeshots all have VERY visible blendzones and the auto-calibration video results show very bad color balance. But I like the ACON-ish approach.


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## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/12055257
> 
> 
> Dear Andres;
> 
> 
> Can't wait to try out your auto grey scale calibration software, when you come to one of my upcoming East Coast BlendZilla Meets!
> 
> 
> This is among the last of the steps needed to make my blend zone completely disappear. I can only see it on 100 IRE screens (fade to white) and on a very very few low IRE scenes. This after only an eye ball grey scale calibration and Cliffy working his DiventiX magic on adjusting the slope of the blend function in the BlendZilla.
> 
> 
> William



Yeah! I'll be happy to send it over for others to try when it is consumption-ready.


I also tried the eye-ball approach and while it seems I reached similar results, but for me not having a perfect blend all across the board destroys the part of the experience. There are some movies (King Kong comes to mind) that are very tolerant with the blend-zone, whereas others (Casino Royale, crane fight scene, cyan sky background) will spit the blend-zone if there's any.


In addition, doing a blend CRT setup from scratch is very time-consuming; and more often than not you end up tweaking the PJs (frankenyokes, VIMs, VNBs, etc.) which means you have to do the whole setup again. For me the color matching and blend curve are the most critical for a seamless blend... so it makes sense to automate that part.


Part of the reason I'm doing this (the first it's a really fun project and I've learnt a lot about RAW format, displays, digital camera, etc.) is that my wife really hates it when we are watching a movie and I fire up the DVX controls to "tweak" the blendzone... while watching the movie...


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## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/12055064
> 
> 
> Nice!
> 
> 
> I was thinking the exact same thing the last couple of weeks while playing with the manual WB settings in my 400D... the color balance sensor in these Canons have to be 100x better than the cheap monitor color sensors.
> 
> 
> Sounds like you've made good progress already.



Clarence. This is still one are I need to research: camera WB. Right now I am taking the pixel values off the CMOS mosaic sensors without any corrections (white-balance or -non-linear- gamma). I then do some basic processing to the RAW data to have an image that I can display, but still the R G B are left untouched. I am not 100% positive at this point I can do D65K with the camera alone; that's why I intend to capture a D65K WP in the same frame (e.g. calibrate D65K only at 100 IRE using Spyder2) and determine RGB proportions from it. In other words... I will not be using the camera's color balance sensor; at least initially.


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## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11985910
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/11982540
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Damn... your camera is clipping whites on that picture. That was the best shot... the capitol building was right behind them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Those pictures turned out really good, what camera is that? Do you have the picture of you and Arli in Raw format? If so send it to me I might be able to fix the clipping.
Click to expand...


That was Cliff's Kodak. I tried in PaintShopPro, but I couldn't get any image at all out of the washed out background.


I was hoping to do something like this:
http://www.jeffascough.net/webactions/sample6.html


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## mark haflich

MP Green? Play hand? What's the point?


Not nice to pick on a diabetic, cigar smoking blind man. And my "guide" (not really) big big dog, Samantha, is sick but she is getting better. The antibiotics and other stuff are knocking her out, you know how that feels.


I post something nice, meant every word, and you think its insincere?


I think I am getting this banding figured out. I think aftert setting bows to 50, you can tweak the other geometry adjustments to get you closer and then skip the interpolated green and go to the non interpolated green. Its almost gone at 720p.


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## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mark haflich* /forum/post/12061747
> 
> 
> Not nice to pick on a diabetic, cigar smoking blind man



LOL... this is true. And trust me, I'm not going to pick on you.




> Quote:
> I post something nice, meant every word, and you think its insincere?



Yes I do. Not only that, you've put me out there in a very wrong way... and at no time did you try to clean that up.


And your constant attempts at trying to put a rose on a pile of dung, will not convince me that it's a bed or roses.


So let's be clear, you're not a friend or "bro". If you were, we would not be having these discussions on an open forum.


So back off, and stop posting this nonsense in this thread.


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## mp20748

We have all things in route for the evaluation meet in November.


So we should be looking at HDMI from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray into the 8022 using a direct digital chain from the player. And HD-SDI will also be in the loop.


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## wkosmann




> Quote:
> I should be able to make it and I'll bring the following on HD-DVD:
> 
> 
> Backdraft
> 
> Batman Begins
> 
> Blazing Saddles
> 
> The Bourne Identity
> 
> Constantine
> 
> The Departed
> 
> DVE HD-DVD
> 
> The Italian Job
> 
> The Last Samurai
> 
> The Matrix Complete Trilogy
> 
> Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
> 
> Seabiscuit
> 
> U-571
> 
> V for Vendetta
> 
> We Were Soldiers



Dear Jeff;


Batman Begins

DVE HD-DVD

The Italian Job

The Last Samurai

The Matrix Complete Trilogy

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow

Seabiscuit

U-571

V for Vendetta


all reside in the Home Theater already. No need to bring them.


William


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## NautikaL




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/12068021
> 
> 
> Dear Jeff;
> 
> 
> Batman Begins
> 
> DVE HD-DVD
> 
> The Italian Job
> 
> The Last Samurai
> 
> The Matrix Complete Trilogy
> 
> Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
> 
> Seabiscuit
> 
> U-571
> 
> V for Vendetta
> 
> 
> all reside in the Home Theater already. No need to bring them.
> 
> 
> William




What about Transformers? You have that yet? I just got it in the mail today







.


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## wkosmann

Dear Jeff;


Nope. You beat me to Transformers. You can bring that one, and we will watch the human race get destroyed (or saved, I haven't seen the movie yet.)


William


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wkosmann* /forum/post/12074838
> 
> 
> Dear Jeff;
> 
> 
> Nope. You beat me to Transformers. You can bring that one, and we will watch the human race get destroyed (or saved, I haven't seen the movie yet.)
> 
> 
> William



The bad news is the movie is such that I would have been OK..no I take that back, happy if the main characters had been disintegrated.










Art


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## overclkr

Yeah, it got REALLY bad at times.....










But damn! That LFE was KICKIN'!!!!!!!

















The special effects in that movie ROCK. Truely awesome visuals and sound.

















Oh, and it was DD+































Cliffy


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## mark haflich

To me, Terminator III was the pits. We had a movie party for non video nerds (host excepted) and we gave the DVD away it was so bad. Is this one better or worse?


----------



## wkosmann

Dear All;


Mike and I would like to start a new thread on blending technology, what works and what doesn't. In a few weeks, we should have my blend system completely set up to Mike's blend standard, including astigmatism dialed in, focus dialed in, geometry dialed in and a colour balance completed. Together with Mike's latest 50-2035-03 VIM special special mods, and his 50-2038 neckboard special special mods, HQF900 lenses, color filters on both red and green CRTs, and new blue and green CRTs on both projectors, we have set up a foundation to be able to *see the difference* between various video chains into and out of the DVX-8022.


Possibilities into the DVX-8022 include:


HDMI to RGBHV to DVX-8022 (current set up)

HDMI to HDMI or DVI to DVX-8022 (just around the corner)

HDMI to HD-SDI to DVX-8022 (just around the corner).


Possibilities out of the DVX-8022 include:


RGBHV directly into the projector RGBHV VIM inputs (current set up)

DVI to Moome HD-VIM input cards (possible current set up)

HD-SDI to (as yet unavailable) projector HD-SDI input cards.


We plan to evaluate all of the above in the very near future, except HD-SDI from BlendZilla to projectors, and post our evaluation of what works best for 1080P input (at various refresh rates) to the BlendZilla. Those postings will include observations in the new thread, and invitations to highly targetted mini-meets in the CRT lab.


We also plan to look at (literally) the 3 currently possible BlendZilla blendable output resolutions (1280 x 1024, 1400 x 1050, and 1600 x 1200), and determine which puts out the best quality image on this system. Currently the BlendZilla is set up to output, and the projectors are set up to receive 1400 x1050 at 72 Hz.


There will also be some source evaluation, including stand alone players, an HTPC, and the X-box 360.


Anyone involved in the setup or operation of a Home Theater blended CRT projector system will be most welcome to contribute. The new thread is intended to be one way in which we document what we have found, to help others attempting this little experiment.


Look for the start of the new thread in the not too distant future. The new thread is intended to capture the state of the art in CRT blending using the DVX-8022 hardware blending technology. Other threads capture blending attempts using other hardware and software technologies.


William (and on Mike's behalf) Mike


----------



## damon

William,


I am in mostly the same boat equipment wise, so I very much look forward to the new thread & the experimentation to get your system functioning up to its full potential!!


It will be interesting to see how the Convergent stuff performs.


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## mp20748

I came up with this idea to create something for those who are interested in Blending, but would not want to search over the different forums for various Info on how to do it. Hopefully we can create a single thread for the 8022 that could be a good source for what has been found so far to get the best image from a blend setup.


I've spent a many hours and days working on and around Williams blend system. And because my goal was always the absolute best image, I knew what I was seeing at some points along the way, was not good enough. So being an image tweaker. I pushed the ceiling further, and in doing so, we found some very interesting things.


I've sent out a few invitations to the next blend evaluation meet on the 17th of this month. At that time I'll go over somethings we've found to greatly improve on the overall performance of a blend setup. I plan to also show how to tweak the coils and magnetics, which is about 80% of the setup on a Marquee. Geometry, convergence, focus and even matching the two projectors together is not the best part of setting up Marquees. Those coils and magnets require as much attention as well. And that is why I'm not pleased with the setup I've done so far. It looks OK, and could pass as being fully done, but there's something else about it that would prevent it from being where it should be. And that's why I'm swapping out the astig boards, which may be fine for a single Marquee setup, but not for this setup.


Also, If doing a blend with Non-Ultra's. You're going to have to live with not having perfect geometry. Or you'll sacrifice perfect geometry for less "banding" We'll cover this as well.


And another important thing we'll go over is the color calibration. The Marquee is a different machine that in order to maintain it's full video IRE range before clipping, it's very important to start with the right G2 reference before doing the color calibration. And at the evaluation meet, we'll also show what happens when the reference is met. I'd just like to say for now, that we will NOT be using ANY gamma at all on the 17th. And I''ll explain we're not using it.


I will not be covering some things in the blend thread, because I'll not be able to spend a lot of time trying to convey these things on a forum. I would like to share what I've learned so far, and hopefully someone else would show up and do the same. And from there maybe that bit of collected info can be shared with others.


So we have a few items still in route, and they should be there before the 17th. And that is when we'll be looking at digital directly into the 8022. An HTPC will also be there, but as you know. I don't put HTPC's on the same shelf with the true video performers. Though good, I don't like the idea of anything being in the video chain that have or may have preadjusted levels that are not smpte (reference), or would not have the black and white levels at the required reference for the rest of the video chain. So it will be there, but not a part of what I'm doing.


I'm putting most of my eggs in the basket on the 17th, because I can't afford to devote too much time to this beyond that. I have too many other things going on, that must take priority from now on. And with so many experts out there on these things, my absence from the thread won't be missed s much.


----------



## mark haflich

I have been playing the my 9500 LC ultra in an effort to eliminate the banding I have been getting. I am extremely close to eliminating all signs of banding but I would like to wait a bit more before casting my findings in stone. Contrary to public and popular opnion, setting the geometry controls to 50 and not trouching them again is not the way to eliminate banding. Obviously when initially adjusting the geometric bow controls, one should continually check back to ensure banding hasn't been introduced. But if one leaves the controls at 50 and then attempts to obtain correct geometry via the other geometry controls and random green convergence, banding will undoubtedly result. But with the bows adjusted and then pin, skew key etc. The key from here is center lins being set in the vertical and horizontal screen centers (half way down the sides and half way accross. Size must be adjusted and side lins being careful not to introduce banding. If the lins cause banding, don't save, go back to your last save and try obtaining better centering with the the random green convergence but just using the center point up and down or side to side. The skew of the center lines may have to be readjusted and then the center lins and then the sides but sooner or later no banding. At some point you will have to adjust green random to get everything perfect but if everything else is correct, small adjustmebts will not cause problems. Every time you make a single change go back and check for banding. Small changes horizontally away from the side edges can cause banding, so check, check check. Its better to revisit the edge settings say one click up and then go back in one zone horizontally but perfection can be achieved. The trick is not setting the bows to 50, but using them as necessary but stopping before banding is introduced.


----------



## Chuchuf

Mark,


I find this banding you get in your Ultra interesting. The three Ultras I have here show no signs of banding when set up properly.


I do know if another 2002 Ultra that shows signs of thin, evenly spaced horizontal lines that we have not been able to solve. It doesn't exactly look look banding (you can demonstrate what banding really looks like if you take and go into convergence for green only, go to a point and then press down w/ an all white screen). We cannot get rid of them even if we null out all convergence.


Is this what you are getting (the thin evenly spaced lines)??


Terry


----------



## mark haflich

No. Horizontal bands of say gray on a white back ground on on RGB back grounds. Usually there were two bands. And of course the answer is proper set up. One can up with a perfect green grid in many many ways. Most of which will cause banding. One can end up with a perfect green grid without bands. The issue is where to start and what path to follow. The traditional advice has been to stay away from the bow controls. But I find that setting the bows to 50 means too much correction with green convergence and consequent banding. So I dial in decent bow check for banding, then go on to the normal geometry adjustments, leaving the lins to last. Once the halfway points up and down and accross are marked with err stick on markers, then the horizontal and vertical center lines are placed with the center lins, cherck for banding, check for centering and size. Then s lins checking for banding. If ones works through this making sure skews are correct, size is correct and the image properly centered using the random green convergence if necessary for center lines centering, the s lins can be adjusted without banding. Save the mother and then obtain perfect grid but veery small green random adjustments. A few clicks adjusting horizontal in from the edges can causde banding quickly. Check each click of everything. Its like mountain climbing, go slowly. Go back and adjust an edge to avoid having to correct anything horizontal away from an edge.

I'm sorry. I can do it and I will perfect it but I hate having to fornicate with it. I'd rather just watch the games. Is it at least a littlebit satisfying? Yes, the games, no the adjustments. Too bad I just can't view it as fore play and then sex. Sorry. But the banding really bothers me. Yesterdays' viewing didn't have any. All 720p. The higher the band width the more the banding. Now I have to see if I can eliminate it at 1080p. Gotta get my VP back before I spend the 4 hours or so that I will need to set it up with nio banding at 1080p. Sorry honey. No whoopee tonight, I have to fornicate with my FP CRT tonight.


----------

