# Sticky  What I'd do differently next time.



## Dennis Erskine

This is a thread you can use to post your "oh oops" and the things you'd do differently the next time around.


Let people know what box canyons or lessons you learned so we can avoid the same mistakes.


Have fun...and keep it fun.


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## BIGmouthinDC

Be careful in planning your first screen size. If all you have watched is a 27-32 inch CRT for 25 years, mocking up a screen on the wall with blue tape will seem huge.


We did and now it's a tad too small. Oh well there is always HT2.0.


Instead visit some other HTs or HT stores and study the size of the screen and your comfort level. Go to your favorite real theater and step off your preferred seating distance and the screen width and calculate that ratio. If possible get your projector and shine it on your blank wall and experiment with different sizes and different content such as 4:3 16:9 and 2:35. Consider the size from all seating positions. After all of that you will be in a better position to make the decision.


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## chinaclipper

Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates _*from the beginning*..._ I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....


No support, no contact-it was like pulling teeth just to get questions answered.


His answer to everything was acoustical panels over plywood.



I did notice his "company" went "T-U" not long after......

Live and learn, eh?

.

I'm not bitter though!










.

.

.

.




OK Well, just maybe a BIT!!!!!










Best,

Tom

Chinaclipper


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## Don_Kellogg

Measure 3 times cut once







Make sure the track your using for your fabric holds well for thinner cloth







, Add on to the house and use poured walls and ceiling instead of working with a 12' wide room haha.


Seriously plan plan plan, get advice.


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## jstolzen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinaclipper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates _*from the beginning*..._ I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....



I was just coming here to post the EXACT same thing..like chinaclipper, I actually had a local "designer" (read: sales guy at an electronics store masquerading as a real designer) quote me $1,000..also for DRAWINGS. And, his initial drawings..well, let's just say they were so wrong as to not even be in the ballpark. Fortunately, I never hired him based on his draft and all around lack of confidence that he knew DIDDLY about what he was doing.


Unless you have HUNDREDS (and I mean HUNDREDS!) of "free hours" to spend reading, researching, analyzing, and all around tearing your hair out, I'd HIGHLY recommend hiring one of the experienced HT design people here on AVS FROM THE GET GO. Don't even TRY to DIY on the design unless you just have a ton of free time on your hands and a twisted interest/obsession to spend every night, every weekend, every free minute for the next 12-24 months obsessing over a project..


This stuff can get reasonably complicated and hard to get "right". There is absolutely no substitute for experience and knowledge.


I've pulled in some professional help at the tail end of my project here, but could have saved literally half a year if I'd done that earlier!


With that said, I'm


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## Jay0001

Well, from the "Creating a HT with no budget" department.......and by no budget I mean just that. I have seen build threads for people who say they have no budget, but clearly spent well over $20,000!


Research is your friend. It sure saves tons of money to learn from others mistakes.


After your research is done....(is it ever?) then have a plan for the build/cost and do your best to stick to it. Yes there may be some changes here and there, but overall sticking to the original design is the only way to stick to your budget.


Be creative. Not everything in your HT needs to be brand new. What type of building materials can be re-used? What can you build yourself? Having said that, and to mirror what others are saying, don't be afraid to call in professional help when you need to such as an electrician for tricky wiring. Besides, that would have been in the original plan right?


Bottom line, if it weren't for all the cleaver folks on here who have shared their experience I wouldn't be even close to finished. (Still have to get those baseboards on!)


Cheers,

Jay


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## Wadro

Never use blown in fiberglass in your risers. It's OK until you try to glue down the Advantech and get glue all over you, resulting in a tar and feather situation..


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## MrWrite

I'm not even finished, but I think I did my lights kinda screwy. I guess we'll see how bad it is when we're up and running.


Basically, I tried to get too complicated and my electrician is inexperienced with home theaters. I have 6 switches now on the wall when you enter the theater. They're for:


-- 4 house light cans

-- sconces

-- soffit/stage cans

-- rope lights for soffit

-- rope lights for risers/stage

-- I can't even remember what the other one's for now!


I read a lot of threads about how cool it is to have remote-control-controlled lighting on dimmers, etc., and I just got carried away. Now I don't even know if I'll be able to retrofit in a Grafik Eye or whatever when I do get enough money!


I went into somebody else's theater and he has one switch and a remote for it. It just controls all of the cans, which are the only lights in his theater. Very simple, but very effective.


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## pred02

- Research, research, research.

- Plan on every little aspect in advance... seating included. Order chairs in advance of finishing the project.

- Multiply the original budget by factor of 1.5

- Align you schedule with the inspectors, etc... plan additional 2 weeks in the build time just for inspections

- Put in more can lights than you think you need. If buying GrafikEye get more zones than you think you need.

- Consider things that you original did not consider. I am sad I did not put hide the speakers behind the false wall.

- Think outside the box - have people evaluate your diagram. I was stuck on the "front" of the room being on side psychologically, in retrospect it would have made more sense to have it reverse, could have built the false wall.

- It may be hard to get the significant others in your household to buy into the full HT idea, but trust me, once it's complete everyone is going to love it.


Good luck!


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## GreySkies

1. Never build anything, no matter how small, without a drawing. It's much easier to fix a problem when it's only on paper.

2. Deep pour basement.


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## uberanalyst

If you use RSIC (sound clips) and metal hat channel to de-couple your double drywall from your 2 x 4 walls, make sure that your drywall contractor knows WHERE to place drywall screws into the metal hat channel.


Otherwise (as happened to me), installers will naturally try to put drywall screws where the 2 x 4s are, which means placing long screws will hit the front face of the RSIC clips, mechanically coupling the drywall to the 2 x 4s (and defeating the reason to use RSIC clips in the first place!!)


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## Don_Kellogg

Deeper basement pour next time 7.5' for ceiling height is not optimal, thank gawd I'm only 5'8


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## Marc Ye

I stapled an eight foot piece of 2x2 furring strip to my riser as I was hanging my first piece of Guilford of Maine Fabric. It took about 60 staples or so to attach the expensive piece of Carrena fabric to the furring strip. When I was done, I realized I couldn't budge the furring strip! I used the wrong size staples! I had to throw out the whole piece.


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## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstolzen* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't even TRY to DIY on the design unless you just have a ton of free time on your hands and a twisted interest/obsession to spend every night, every weekend, every free minute for the next 12-24 months obsessing over a project..



Doesn't that describe everyone posting in this forum?










I wish I had bought a pair of framing gloves a month or two earlier into the project. It would have saved me some skin.


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## drin

Build my next theater in a house we have built, rather than in an existing house we've bought. Retrofitting the 20-year old open concrete basement space has taken more time than anything else on the project.


This included:


1. cutting holes in the concrete foundation for

2. new footings for the

3. lolly columns I had to install to support

4. The cutout I had to make in the

5. existing main support beam to get enough height for the

6. code-compliant theater door.


And yes, I had a structural engineer run the numbers before I started any of that.










-drin


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## jikkjack

Buy all of the home theater building materials and equipment with a Rewards Card instead of paying cash. That way I can have a free vacation after the build is complete!


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## McCall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doesn't that describe everyone posting in this forum?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I had bought a pair of framing gloves a month or two earlier into the project. It would have saved me some skin.



Actually it describes ME perfectly, I have nothing but time, and that is what I have spent it on for the past year


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## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Deeper basement pour next time 7.5' for ceiling height is not optimal, thank gawd I'm only 5'8



This was by FAR my biggest gaffe. Our house is coming up on 5 years old. When we were having it built I could have had full 9' ceilings for another 10k. At the time it seemed like a stupid thing to spend money on. But looking at it now I could have designed the theater much more efficiently. I spent a LOT of money moving mechanicals around to try and overcome the fact that we only have 7.5' ceilings (and I'm 6'3").


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## Lindahl




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This was by FAR my biggest gaffe. Our house is coming up on 5 years old. When we were having it built I could have had full 9' ceilings for another 10k. At the time it seemed like a stupid thing to spend money on. But looking at it now I could have designed the theater much more efficiently. I spent a LOT of money moving mechanicals around to try and overcome the fact that we only have 7.5' ceilings (and I'm 6'3").



Yeah, I'm not looking forward to this one either...


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## Splotto




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't try to estimate how big a screen you want based only on a mock-up, particularly if all you've ever seen is a 27-32 inch CRT for 25 years.
> 
> 
> I did and now it's too small. Oh well there is always HT2.0.



That was my main fear. I ended up buying the projector first and made sure of the image size before I even ordered the screen.


Splotto


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## mbgonzomd

I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.


(And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)


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## Cathan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.



Just make sure they are the same make/model. I've learned the hardway when for the life of me I could figure out why my cuts were always a bit off. Turns out the two tape measures were an 1/8 off from each other.


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## stubeeef

Keep your ideas and to-do's on a master list, not just the closest piece of paper.

I meant to put a beam up between my floor joists to isolate the mount from the floor vibrations above, wrote in down on a sheet that is lost. Now the ceiling is in (luckily it is a drop ceiling), the proj and mount are here, but I have to wait to solve a problem that is now bigger.

i would keep a master list on your PC desktop.


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## hdtheater

Keep in mind that GOM fabric is transparent and that anything behind it will be seen. I cut the sound panels rather rough and you could see all my bad cuts thru the fabric.


Also, use higher quality ferring strips to stable the fabric too. The cheap 1x2's I bought made my corners rather nasty.


Boils down to don't assume the next step will cover the sins of the previous.


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## Phil_Johnson

I wish I would have put my equipment rack at the back instead of the front side. I really knew better from reading on here but due to the layout of the room it was the best place for it with rear access. Its amazing how much light all them little blue lights put out in a dark room.


On the plus side I knew I wanted a theater when I built the house so I had 9 foot ceilings and clear span trusses, so I had no posts or heat ducts or anything else to move before I could begin construction.


Phil


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## bmackrell

I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.


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## CCDAstro




> Quote:
> I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.



Nice idea but won't work. I have three tapes and still it is they are all in the same room sooner or later!


Fabric panels are nice but we have 62 panels of various sizes (all but 9 done now). Each panel has 4 joints, each joint has 2 cuts. Figure it out. So far 2 months just building panels (and I am retired)!

Galaxy Theater


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## scaesare

Not take the electrical inspector's word for it that the rough-in was OK, only to have him come back out and contradict himself for the final.


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## strange_brew

I would have made more room between my front wall and screen wall - right now the subs are jammed in there pretty tight and I don't have as much freedom of movement as I'd like. An extra 3" would have made a huge difference.


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## strange_brew

Another one just came up in my HT thread - make sure you wire your PJ outlet so you can use a UPS!! I missed that one completely.


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## P51D

Marry a supermodel that was in to spending lots of money on home electronics!


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## cinemascope

My $.02 to to simply say that everyone should do the research, and seriously consider saving enough money to do it right the first time...

The latest and greatest "must have" products of today may not still be around when you can muster the budget, but trust me there will be something just as buzz-worthy at that time (and if it's a video-related product, it will likely be cheaper).


Also, if you are using a pro, check credentials and get someone who you would trust with cutting holes in your house (because they will be).


If you could only see the disastrous installs I have taken over from "reputable" shops...

Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly recommend using a quality integrator, but this is a hot business for "me too" opportunistic dirtbags. The same guys probably built crappy decks 10 years ago, and installed crappy pools and hot tubs before that. Hacks are hacks, but they get business by offering lower prices.


There are conscientious integrators who know and love this business as much as we do, it's just that if you have Dom Perignon taste and a chocolate milk budget, you won't meet very many of them.


In my experience as a long time HT enthusiast and long time pro in the biz...

Instant gratification = future buyer's remorse.


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## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This was by FAR my biggest gaffe. Our house is coming up on 5 years old. When we were having it built I could have had full 9' ceilings for another 10k. At the time it seemed like a stupid thing to spend money on. But looking at it now I could have designed the theater much more efficiently. I spent a LOT of money moving mechanicals around to try and overcome the fact that we only have 7.5' ceilings (and I'm 6'3").



I'm with you all the way, this IMO is the number one thing I just don't get when I see people building new homes. People will spend 10K on the kitchen counters but save 10K to make the basement a foot shallower. I say unless budget absolutely prohibits it, make the basement as deep as possible and for a ridiculously low price (in the total scheme of things) you get an entire extra level of usable living space that can be developed as budget allows (i.e. it can be done after the house is built).


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## Video

1) More space behind my screen wall. It would be great having more room for additional or bigger subs.


2) I would NOT have blown money on Green Glue - I just don't see what the benefit was. ($1000)


3) Entire front wall would have been black. I built curved cherry wood columns on both sides of the screen. They look incredible with the lights on, but are a little distracting when watching a movie because they reflect a little light.


4) Without the columns, I would have gone bigger than my 10 foot wide screen.


5) I bought a custom drapery track and masking system and wouldn't do it again. It was a pain to install and cost me more time than it was worth. The velvet fabric looks cheap to me, but I had limited choices. This is a long story that I won't discuss in an open forum. ($1200+)


6) I ordered a motorized kit for my Prismasonic Lens - I never use it to change from stretch mode. ($400)


7) I never would have bought an URC MX3000 remote. I hired someone to program it and it never has worked quite right. Most of the time I turn on my stack of gear, put in a movie and push play. I never really need the remote. I could have gone with a simple remote that adjusts volume and changes channel on HiDef Cable. That's all I really need. ($1200)


8) I would have used black carpet on the stage - I had custom theater carpet made that cost a fortune. I listened to my wife and put it on the stage. Again, looks great with the lights on, but bothers me because I wanted black on the stage.


9) I wouldn't cut off the tip of my thumb with a table saw again - This move was a mistake.


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## pmeyer

Two people have said "More room behind the screen". How much room do each of you have and how much would you recommend?


I'm making that call now. Just pushed from 2' to 3' depth and could go 4'.


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## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Two people have said "More room behind the screen". How much room do each of you have and how much would you recommend?
> 
> 
> I'm making that call now. Just pushed from 2' to 3' depth and could go 4'.



I ended up with 21", so I think you would have been ok with 2'. 3' is even better. For my room, 30" would have been perfect.


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## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I ended up with 21", so I think you would have been ok with 2'. 3' is even better. For my room, 30" would have been perfect.



Thanks! I went from 2' to 3' because I wanted to be able to fit the biggest DIY speakers I could envision doing (~20" deep) and a foot between the speaker front and screen.


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## rm1759

Hire a sub to do drywall.


I will never do drywall again.


anybody want some drywall tools? cheap?


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## Sands_at_Pier147

I should have done a better job of locating local suppliers for building supplies. I've turned into such an online shopper, that it doesn't even phase me when I can't find something I want. I just order it. I couldn't find OSI Acoustical Caulk. So I ordered it online. When you factor in the shipping cost for a case of 29-ounce caulk tubes, you don't even want to know what I spent per tube for OSI SC-175.


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## BritInVA

1) At minimum hire out the drywall mudding / taping - what a PITA










2) Use a gray primer under red paint - 6 coats later still not great










3) More room within proscenium for sub placement - sub is jammed in a corner










4) Take the bigger space in the basement for HT and let the kids have the smaller space for their Rec Room. The little tikes spend more time in HT anyway!










Cheers,

Mark


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## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sands_at_Pier147* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I should have done a better job of locating local suppliers for building supplies. I've turned into such an online shopper, that it doesn't even phase me when I can't find something I want. I just order it. I couldn't find OSI Acoustical Caulk. So I ordered it online. When you factor in the shipping cost for a case of 29-ounce caulk tubes, you don't even want to know what I spent per tube for OSI SC-175.



I've found the "Find Businesses" option on Google Maps to be a godsend int his regard.I typed in something like drywall supplier and found 11 within 5 miles of me. The first place I tried wasn't actually a drywall supplier (they did commercial remodelling), but they had a vendor's license and a case of OSI SC-175 that they sold to me.


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## cohen33

It's pretty minor, but if you are using black plush carpet on the stage order it with "seamless installation" to avoid the seam which is more noticeable in black carpet than in other colors.


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## shodoug

Make it one foot wider ( thankfully, it was accidentally made one foot wider than the plans, but another foot would have been really nice, and would not have cost much, if anything.)


It was just impossible to convince the SO until the Berklines came in, now she wishes it was wider, too. It is just wide enough that I do not have regrets.










Using Dennis Erskine as the designer was great. I could not have a better feeling about using him as a designer. Even if you understand all the issues, having a concise set of plans is well worth the cost of his services.


I am glad about so many other things.


Best Regards,

Doug


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## c-not-k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BritInVA* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 4) Take the bigger space in the basement for HT and let the kids have the smaller space for their Rec Room. The little tikes spend more time in HT anyway!



Well, I lucked out because our bigger room was the one with only one window.


Anyway, I agree with all those who said *do your homework*! I got a quote from a B&M for the equipment, but not much of an explanation of the technology. _(I got quotes for 11 projectors, but no talk about the difference between DLP & LCOS, etc.)_ Thankfully I found this forum and have learned a lot.


One regret is that I ordered a computer rack for my equipment. I really like it, I forgot to ask how much shipping was. Ouch! I could have had the contractor build shelves with a door for 25% of what I paid.


I'm kinda doing my acoustic treatments after-the-fact. Had I known...

I hired a decorator for colors and such and she was wonderful! I really like the look of the room, as does everybody who sees it. The trick now is to improve the audio experience without destroying the look. I'll end up making sonic compromises in favor of aesthetics.


Oh well. Maybe someday there'll be HT 2.0.


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## ifeliciano

I would not have a wife or kids. Then I could buy and upgrade A/V gear as I pleased.


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## QueueCumber

Buy a house with a very large carriage house with two levels, or very large barn with two levels, then convert the barn into four spaces (each with 12' or higher ceilings and dimensions that fall within the perfect acoustical room ratios found in AES research studies).


One space for a Home Theater and surround sound reproduction, optimized for surround sound music more so than actual movies - though definitely very comfortable and usable for a Home Theater.


One space for orchestra, or other large band music ensembles, where the speakers can be spaced very wide apart and reproduce the proper scale.


One space for rock music recording playback, with smaller scale.


One space as a recording studio, with space to store instruments and a drum kit, as well as filled with the proper speakers and amplifiers so people could just bring their instruments over and play without much hassle. Wtih another space for the actual recording equipment (recording booth, etc).


On top of all of that, I would have everything acoustically engineered from the very start, from the ground up before starting any construction. I would completely isolate every room and suspend them. I would not hold out on any measure to improve the rooms' sound. I would have it tested afterwards thoroughly with the speakers chosen to be in each room and make sure that the rooms were redesigned to fix any issues that weren't ironed out in the pre-design.


I guess in about 15 years my youngest kid will leave for college and I can start looking for the new house somewhere cheaper than Westchester County. Perhaps in Montana near Ted Turner's estates, with a large enough generator to power the house in case the power goes out for a month or longer (we have a great generator at our current house but it only powers everything in the house for about two weeks).


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## strange_brew

I finished the wood on the soffitt along the front wall in front of the screen too "shiny". It picks up reflections from the screen. No one else notices but it annoys me.


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## drunkpenguin

What would I do differently?


So far, nothin.


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## cinemascope

I might have just bought a lifetime pass to the Imax theater, and then taken the rest to buy a motorcycle or a European vacation or something (these thoughts generally only come during this time of year).


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## tek-noid

What would I have done different?


* Made the room about 2' x 2' wider and longer (it is 20x15) - it would have provided more options for seating, though I'm happy with my 45004's

* Made sure I painted everything before the carpet was installed

* Fired my electrician much earlier









* Moved the ceiling electrical outlet further back toward the rear wall (planning this long before you have a projector or have visited the CIH forum is a challenge)

* Made the surround columns another 1/2" deeper. I have TRIAD 6" in-wall subs and the tolerances are so close that one sub doesn't fit as snugly as it should (and therefore rattles)

* Enlarged the door for my AXS-29 rack mount another 1/2" - it is a *very* tight fit sliding that rack in and out.

* When pulling speaker wire to the rack, ensure there is at least 12' laying on the ground. This will ensure that I can slide the rack all the way out even when using good wire management techniques.

* moved the screen wall another few inches away from the wall (and center speaker)


All that being said, I'm very happy with what I have!


James


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## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I finished the wood on the soffitt along the front wall in front of the screen too "shiny". It picks up reflections from the screen. No one else notices but it annoys me.



Have you tried 0000 steel wool to matte the finish?


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## dc_pilgrim

I would have figured out that if I had put a turn in my stairwell it would have opened up a lot of possibilities in my basement layout and saved me a good bit of money.


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## hdtheater

I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.


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## hdtheater

2 feet wider would have been nice too. I misjudged the seating and ended up having two rows of three instead of a curved row of four in the back.


Also, I had an idea of building a booth in the back that hold all my DVD's, CD's, etc... On the side was my home made equipment rack. This way you did not see any equipment while watching a movie and the only long cables needed were for L,C,R and SUBs. It also made accessing the cabling easy without having to pull anything out of th rack.


I could have used another 2 feet in length to accommodate this thing. My seats are too close to the screen IMHO. It is a good idea in theory, but I needed more room to pull it off.


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## cinemascope




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtheater* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.



Zoom it out into the masking a little bit and re-focus... If that still doesn't do it, try softening the focus a little bit.


Sometimes losing a little bit to overscan puts the pixel grid on a slightly different alignment that isn't right on the perforations (which is what causes the moire).


Another idea that sounds stupid, but works... Try hanging the screen upside down...


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## nuevo_eph

What exactly do you need to do to get the projector on a UPS? I figured you have a UPS built in next to it (ugly) or you just have a long extension cord to your rack room (which has a UPS).


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## scaesare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtheater* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.



Buddy of mine ended up with that problem. Solved it with a Cygnus IMX lens. I think they are no longer in production, but can be found second hand often times...


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## drin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nuevo_eph* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What exactly do you need to do to get the projector on a UPS? I figured you have a UPS built in next to it (ugly) or you just have a long extension cord to your rack room (which has a UPS).



Please try to use the forums search feature before asking. This has been asked and answered many many times before.


Try here .


Sorry for the thread jack, folks.


-drin


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## ksharp4

I would have put more effort into HVAC up front. It is painful to retrofit duct work after the fact. I wanted to minimize holes in the walls and figured that the theater was in the basement and my equipment was in another room I would be fine. Boy was I wrong. I definitely believe right sizing two supplies and two returns are mandatory.


Related to riser height more is better especially when you have a short wife. I used the riser calculator which is a great starting point and built a 9" riser. It was okay but after adding a second riser on top of it for another 8" it is infinitely better.


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## Randito3

One thing I would do is make a bigger room. I like my room but its a little small. 13x19. I definitely will make a longer and wider room. I would be able to put more chairs in a row and have more rows.


I dont really agree with the "Get a HT designer" idea. I tried that, actually I had two different HT designers I had meetings with and let me tell you they are way overpriced and are set in stone what they want to do with your space. One gave me a completed price way out of my price range and then after I researched was not giving me the best equipment for the buck. The second group of HT designer that I showed my amateur drawings to tried to totally redo my entire room, telling me the things I wanted was to much or to little for my room size. Take for instance my screen... I had a 115" 16.9 screen, these designers told me it was way to big for my room size and said I should go with 103" max. They also told me to go with scounces instead of Can lights. We disagreed on so much that I just did it the way I drew it. What got me the most was these last guys have built Home theaters for homes that are 1-3 million dollar homes and I was really disappointed at the changes they wanted me to do to my room.


Thank god I did it my way. I absolutely love the way my room turned out and everyone that comes over is impressed. I'm so happy I did not take the advice of the designer and go with a 103" screen, the 115" looks great and is a perfect size for my room. My can lighting gives it a great "THEATER" feel.


Just last month those last theater designers came back to my home to check out what I finally went with in my home theater (only because a friend of theirs told them how much he liked my theater). To my surprise they liked it too. Even the main designer guy said that the screen actually looked just right, which he said surprised him. That made me feel really good and hopefully they took that lesson home with them for future projects.










Bottom line, If you have an idea of what you want your room to look like dont let anyone change it, unless you really like the other idea better. Remember you are the one that has to live with the room, make sure its the room you want.


----------



## drunkpenguin

If you have a room designed and built for you that room is a reflection of somebody else, not you. I don't think these people have any right to brag about their HT, even if Lucas himself created it.


DIY all the way baby!


----------



## warrenP

Try to get as many tools ahead of time as you can. The prep work, the things you do before working, makes the actual job go so much better.


If you have stairs going down to your theater area, be sure that the "stuff" you need to bring downstairs will actually fit! In the stairs to our last theater, we had a small staircase, and a right angle to go down. It was only on delivery day that we realized the seating we picked wasn't going to fit.


----------



## drunkpenguin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *warrenP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It was only on delivery day that we realized the seating we picked wasn't going to fit.



Thats a bummer! What did you do? Rip out the stairs or get new seats? I lived in a townhouse 1 time and getting bedroom furniture up those tiny stairs took 3 strong guys and alot of creativity!


----------



## Belcherwm

Three things


1) Never use flat paint with kids and their friends that have access to the theater.


2) Riser should be a minimum 12'' high.


3) Rear speakers set at 60 degrees from listening position. Mine are too close together, but that was the suggested distance 4 or 5 years ago.



Well four really.


4) Hit the lottery before starting.


----------



## JosephShaw




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.
> 
> 
> (And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)



Just make sure they both measure the same, otherwise you're in for heartache. Few things will discourage you more than realizing that you cut something too short because there were differences in your measuring devices. And yes, it has happened to me.


----------



## Bardman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *warrenP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you have stairs going down to your theater area, be sure that the "stuff" you need to bring downstairs will actually fit! In the stairs to our last theater, we had a small staircase, and a right angle to go down. It was only on delivery day that we realized the seating we picked wasn't going to fit.




OUCH!!!


I'm in this same boat, building theater in basement, and the only access is via the stairs that do a 180 half way down. I can't even take 4x8 sheets of drywall down without folding them first.


----------



## TrikinCurt

For what it is worth, THX still recommends the rears are close together (if you have a receiver that supports THX Advanced Speaker Array).


Curt


----------



## accts4mjs

Hope I have enough room to list all of the mistakes I made, er, the "things I'd do differently"








READ THE FORUM THREADS ON DEDICATED THEATERS FOR A MONTH!!
Did I mention to read the forum threads for various builds? Seriously, I was in such a hurry when I finally (after 15 years of dreaming of a theater) got the green light I jumped in a bit too fast. If I had I would have found out about sound treatment (vs. sound proofing) BEFORE I got started. Ugh. Pick at least 5 threads that are done or close to done (go to the end of the thread to see -- probably at least 300-1000 posts minimum) and read every single post from start to finish. You will be AMAZED at what you can learn this way!!
Consult with an expert about sound treatment BEFORE designing the room
Roll/brush wall/ceiling/trim paint instead of spray it
Invite buddies over to hold surrounds in various positions to test locations for best results
Spend a little more money on the projector (this assumes you're already spending enough on the speakers)
NEVER hang the projector up until the room is 100% done -- otherwise whatever stage your room is at, becomes "done"








Theater seating vs sectional (choose theater!)
8oz popcorn machine not 4oz (I fixed that and it was worth it!)
Multiple subwoofers








If you're in a hurry, measure 4 times before cutting!
Avoid "over-engineering" solutions -- they're time consuming, costly and usually not necessary. Simple is 99% of the time just right.
Hang your solid core door BEFORE you have drywall put up!
When you take down your door to paint be sure and do it quickly and get it back up right away -- they like to warp when they're off the hinges.
Mark the hinges to indicate which mortise they go in on the door (or jam) and also indicate direction (which side to door, which side to jam, which way up)
When hanging a 70+ lb door to a little piece of pine jam go ahead and use 3" screws to secure it to the 2x4s framing the door itself
If using Green Glue, add a layer of MDF (or some other dense material), with green glue in between, to the theater side of the door. I custom ordered my door knob and I'm sure I could have asked for a larger "thingee" that connects the two knobs so it would fit through the larger space. The room's pretty quiet but the door leaks sound just a bit (you can't hear it down the hall in the master bedroom but you can in the kids' rooms).
I would also add that if you plan to make the door "heavier" you should let the door manufacturer know that you're adding X lbs to the door and to have them beef up the hinges properly to support it (maybe go to 5 or 6 hinges instead of 4 on the door and jamb).
Plan to remove hot air from your projector
When designing the projector hush box don't forget to take into account the distance the cables will stick out when attached to the projector
Make sure you cover all electrical boxes with acoustical caulk -- it's AMAZING how much sound can escape through a tiny little hole!
When painting MDF be sure and seal the edges (drywall joint compound works great for this) or the paint will look awful otherwise
I sometimes wish I had aligned my room length wise instead of width wise and put in a false front with speakers behind an SMX screen (bigger too) and used a riser with two rows of theater chairs (4 each row).
I HATED painting. If you can afford a painter (at least get a few quotes) -- HIRE ONE!



Since the spirit of this thread is helping others avoid making the same mistakes I thought I'd also throw in a few things that I feel I did right and made a big impact on the overall project:
I got stuck trying to come up with the final color scheme for my architectural details (columns, column boxes, proscenial arch, art deco fan, walls, ceilings, etc) and hired a local decorator who spent 90 minutes with me and we came up with the perfect scheme!! Best 90 bucks I spent on the project.
Green glue = awesome! I don't want to start a war on this, just provide my testimony. I used it on walls and ceilling (2x5/8" drywall layers) and along with the solid core door I can listen to movies late at night at "nervous" sound levels (i.e. nervous my wife will come banging on the door because it's too loud) and she and the kids sleep right through it








Don't scrimp on the speakers. I spend a lot of time in the room listening to music now because it sounds so good -- definite plus








Conduit is your friend and really cheap -- use a lot of it
Don't be afraid to be different. Find a style you like and put something of yourself into the design so it's unique -- that's what really draws people in to the experience of your theater. "The memory moment". Something they'll walk away from the room and remember as a "wow" factor.
Above all else, have fun and enjoy it when possible










Good luck!!


Mike


----------



## John Ballentine

Excellent post!


----------



## Stew4msu

My theater's not perfect, but I wouldn't do much differently.


Probably the only thing would be to think about sound treatments first. Didn't give much thought to it when building 3 years ago and now I have to add that.


----------



## McCall

Hm, let's see in retrospect, I probably if I knew then what I know now, and seeing the HUGE financial and emotional drain this theater has become, [all my fault as usual I know] Iwould have NEVER gone to see Pirates of the Caribbean. It was the impetus for my wanting a home theater after going to the real theater 38 times to see it.

Though in truth I had seen my first Home theater several years ago and the germ of wanting one was always there afterward.


----------



## mbgonzomd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [*]Hang your solid core door BEFORE you have drywall put up!
> 
> 
> Mike



Mike, just curious. Why is this? (Too late







)


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike, just curious. Why is this? (Too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )



I was going to ask the same thing. I've always seen doors go up after drywall.


----------



## drin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *McCall* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hm, let's see in retrospect, I probably if I knew then what I know now, and seeing the HUGE financial and emotional drain this theater has become, [all my fault as usual I know] Iwould have NEVER gone to see Pirates of the Caribbean.



That's funny. Every store I went to (all independent, no chains) to audition speakers they were playing Pirates in their theater rooms. Every one.


-drin


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was going to ask the same thing. I've always seen doors go up after drywall.



I can imagine two reasons.


1) I had a double door in by basement build and the rule of thumb for adding an inch on both sides for the rough in doesn't work for a 48 inch double. a 48 inch double door is actually 48 3/4 inches wide......that's why God invented the reciprocal saw.


2) If you are working alone you can reach around the open framing and position the door and insert shims a lot easier.


I would recommend just checking the measurements and when it comes time to do the door just getting a friend to help. With one guy on each side you can push the shims from both sides at once and make pretty quick work of hanging the door. Just be sure you have the right tools on the right side before you start the procedure!


----------



## crackyflipside

Have only one door and have it located in the rear of the room!


----------



## accts4mjs

[*]Hang your solid core door BEFORE you have drywall put up!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mike, just curious. Why is this? (Too late
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )




Good question. If you start here in my thread you'll see where I give the details about what went wrong on the door install in regards to order (drywall vs door).


In a nutshell, I already had a door installed from when we built the house and left the theater unfinished (didn't know how I was going to build the theater at the time). Later as I learned about soundproofing (major important to me) and double drywall with green glue I was all over that (in fact that's pretty much what got my theater build going







). It wasn't until the drywallers were done and I went to install the door that I realized I didn't have any room to fit the door properly (shims, moving it around, size of the door slightly different than the original, etc) and so I cut the drywall back to the stud edges. This made the install of the door better (not great -- read the thread to see why). However, once the door was shimmed into place I had a 1/2" to 3/8" gap all around the door. Can you say LEAKING SOUND!? Yeah, it was awful. All that work on soundproofing blown on a poor door install. I did manage to fix it (again, in the thread) but had I installed the door first then the drywall could have been run right up to the edge of the jamb and it would have been 10x easier in the long run.


I will say this though. If you happen to be in the situation where you have drywall already done and need to install the door then don't trim all of the drywall back. What I would do is get a couple of friends (solid core = at least 2 friends) to help move the door around while you trim the drywall to fit the door and then try to squeeze the shims in from one side (no clue how to do that but I figure with enough hands it can be done). Again, door first = much, much easier.


Mike


----------



## strange_brew




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [*]Green glue = awesome! I don't want to start a war on this, just provide my testimony. I used it on walls and ceilling (2x5/8" drywall layers) and along with the solid core door I can listen to movies late at night at "nervous" sound levels (i.e. nervous my wife will come banging on the door because it's too loud) and she and the kids sleep right through it



Mike, I love the "nervous" descriptor. I have similar construction. 2 layers of drywall, Green Glue, and RSIC. I am thrilled that I can crank it up to sound levels bordering on uncomfortable while my wife and kids are upstairs sleeping. Its truly amazing and I don't regret one penny spent on sound isolation. Green Glue really is all its cracked up to be. Anyway, I'm a believer.


----------



## tek-noid

We used FabricMate tracks to help mount the insulation/GOM and I while I would use it again, three things I would do differently when mounting it:


1. Leave a 1/4"-1/2" gap where the tracks meet to allow extra room for the fabric.


2. Use additional staples (say, every 3" instead of every 6") when mounting the tracks around the entrance door (or other places where the tension is only from one side) - in a few places the tension has pulled the track a bit off kilter so it isn't completely vertical. Only I notice it, but still...


3. Order the track in black - ours was white (or beige) and we ended up using a black magic marker on a lot of the track to have it blend it with the adjoining walls/fabric.


James


----------



## bmwracer3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> [*]Hang your solid core door BEFORE you have drywall put up!
> 
> 
> Mike



Thank you a thousand times! I was coming at that speed bump at about 45 mph.


----------



## Fatawan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tek-noid* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We used FabricMate tracks to help mount the insulation/GOM and I while I would use it again, three things I would do differently when mounting it:
> 
> 
> 1. Leave a 1/4"-1/2" gap where the tracks meet to allow extra room for the fabric.
> 
> James



James--could you elaborate on this one? Do you have pictures to explain it? I'm not getting the visual.


Thanks


Fat


----------



## tek-noid












I don't know if you are familiar with how the FabricMate track works, but you essentially lay the fabric over the insulation (or batting, which is not yet applied in this top of this photo) and then use a tool (envision a very dull pizza cutter) to press the fabric into the narrow slot in the track.


So, if you picture that the fabric extends beyond the border of the track by 2" initially, everything works well until you get to the corner, where you end up with a lot of extra fabric, as well as a desire to not use scissors to trim it in case you need to pull it out again.










Leaving a gap where the tracks butt together essentially gives you room to shove that extra fabric. I cut and mounted all of the track, and my wife, bless her, installed the fabric. Once I learned to leave that 1/2" or so gap, her life (and mine) became much easier.


And, on the top left, you can see where I didn't put enough staples in the vertical piece by the door. Sigh.


HTH,

James


----------



## Fatawan

Got it--thanks James


----------



## accts4mjs

[*]Hang your solid core door BEFORE you have drywall put up!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmwracer3* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thank you a thousand times! I was coming at that speed bump at about 45 mph.



You're welcome










One other thing I'll add here and in my original post is that I would add a layer of MDF (or some other dense material) with green glue in between, to the theater side of the door. I custom ordered my door knob and I'm sure I could have asked for a larger "thingee" that connects the two knobs so it would fit through the larger space. The room's pretty quiet but the door leaks sound just a bit (you can't hear it down the hall in the master bedroom but you can in the kids' rooms).


I would also add that if you do something like this you let the door manufacturer know that you're adding X lbs to the door and to have them beef up the hinges properly to support it (maybe go to 5 or 6 hinges instead of 4 on the door and jamb).


Mike


----------



## TrikinCurt

If you are using concrete and have conduit in the floor, you would be a fool to use 1" conduit. I swear I didn't approve it, everyone else swears I did. Pulling an HDMI cable, component video, analog audio and digital audio through a 1" PVC conduit with a couple bends is darn near impossible. Okay, we proved it was possible but it makes for a bad Monday.


Curt


----------



## MrWrite

Can I keep adding? D'oh!


Don't cut MDF to finish off your riser and stage inside of your theater room after the walls are already painted! I saved myself a few steps for each cut, but now I've got a huge mess to clean up -- and having read about how tough walls with flat paint are to get clean, I'm not looking forward to it.


----------



## accts4mjs

Start with a soft brush vacuum cleaner attachment and gently clean the walls. Takes longer but works better than starting with a rag. I had the same problem adding lights to the ceiling after the fact and getting drywall dust on the flat black ceilling (drop clothes saved me problems elsewhere). The first hole I tried wiping it off with a rag and the tiny bits of dust acted like an abrassive and I scratched the ceiling like no tomorrow -- and I thought I was being gentle! The next and subsequent holes I started with brush vacuum attachment and gently moved it along the ceiling (almost trying not to touch the paint) and it got about 90% of the dust off and then a wet cloth in a dabbing motion got the next 8% and the final 2% had to be done with a wiping motion but by then there was so little left it didn't really scratch the surface. Oh, and turn the cloth and rinse it out OFTEN to prevent build up and end up scratching anyway.


Mike


----------



## nowandthen

1. Access! Access! Access! Technology changes. You'll need to run another wire or two or three... I guarantee it! This time, the bottoms of my soffits will be removable so I can run new cables when technology changes or I just need another wire for something.


2. Flexibility/modularity: When your design gets stale or it's too bland, or you want to correct your mistakes (i.e. You read these forums after building your first theater, me







), it will be a lot less trouble to get rid of the old and bring in the new.


3. Flexibility/modularity part II: Carpet first then install columns. My first theater had columns framed first and then I drywalled and then came the carpet. Now that I'm renovating my theater, I have had to do some nasty drywall removal and the carpet has rectangles missing where the old columns were. I hope to patch the carpet, I have extra, but it has a fancy pattern so it will be tricky. This time, columns are being designed so that they are independent of the walls. Carpet will go in before the columns, then I'll fasten the columns to the walls. Also, the side panels of stage will be removable in case I want or need to redesign them. If I ever remodel again, it will be a lot less mess and trouble.


4. Get the biggest screen you can afford/fit. If your picture is too dim then mask it down. It's awfully hard to stretch a screen.







When that new brighter PJ comes on the market you won't have to buy a new, bigger screen.


5. Read these forums!


----------



## mhallida

1. Don't bother with nice speaker plates, way to hard to work with and just not a good idea in terms of usability and quality of sound. Just go with the cable outlet that keeps the cables tidy and bundled together.


2. Use Low Voltage boxes for ALL low voltage cables. Much easier to work with and stuff cables in and out. I have one box which is a regular voltage box and working with that and my speaker cables is a dog!


3. Follow your gut.... When you think "I should probably do that...." you should do it, thinking "ah it will be okay is fatal...." And fixing it later costs way more, if you can fix it.


4. Plan everything. If you are using unfamilar technologies make sure you understand how they are implemented 100% before starting. I got burned with low voltage cabinet lights. I had no idea most were installed from the wall using a ballast with a transformer in it. Too late now.....


5. Be prepared for some dissapointments. Nothing goes the way you want all the time. Try to keep a big picture perspective but keep your attention to detail.


I'm not done with my project, but those are the ones for me so far....


----------



## kriscad

1. I wish I would of been able to sit in the Berklines before I ordered them from some guy on here... next time I'd rather buy some bigger couches and chairs that are more comfortable.


2. Put it down in the basement instead of a 3rd floor room (which I think I am going to do soon)


----------



## shodoug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kriscad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 1. I wish I would of been able to sit in the Berklines before I ordered them from some guy on here... next time I'd rather buy some bigger couches and chairs that are more comfortable.
> 
> 
> 2. Put it down in the basement instead of a 3rd floor room (which I think I am going to do soon)




Just wondering what model of Berklines you got.


I was able to try the 088's and the 090's locally, and decided on the 090's based on that.


Comfort is very subjective. I am not trying to challenge your impression. Just wanting to know which model it is for the sake of knowledge.










Best Regards,

Doug


----------



## c-not-k

I wish I had put an eyeball spot pointing at the equipment rack, which is in the back of the room . My eyes aren't what they used to be, and sometimes I have to tweak something during a movie.


When I finish (start







) programming my remote I'll be able to tweak from the sofa.


I need a light at the back of the rack, too, but that's in an unfinished room, so it won't be difficult.


----------



## scaesare

Got room for a rack-mounted power monitor with pullout lights? Only 1U....


----------



## c-not-k




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scaesare* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got room for a rack-mounted power monitor with pullout lights? Only 1U....



Yes, actually. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## ScottS

This may sound obvious, but...


When doing my big tasks, I shopped around for best prices. You know, things like lumber and drywall. However, I bought most of my small $$$ supplies at one of the big box stores. I figured they'd be competetive on most items.


Wrong!


For example, I ended up using Sherwin Williams paint because by contractor (who is doing most tasks) had an account there and got a nice discount. While there picking up paint, I noticed that the retail price for name-brand "Blue" tape was $1 less per roll than the big box store. A $15 drop cloth at the big box store was on sale for $5. I bought a refurb airless sprayer from a retailer on eBay for what I though was a great price. After including shipping on the eBay unit, Sherwin Williams had a *new* one for just $10 more after rebate. Same for spray hoods, jump suits, rubber gloves. The list goes on...


Since hunting around on other items such as electrical boxes, switches/recepticles, nails for my nailers, etc. I see that in reality, the big box stores are convenient, but they are rarely the cheapest way to go. That wasn't always the case. Ten years ago they must have been trying really hard to get business because they always had the best prices (plus convenience). Those days are gone.


Scott


----------



## DMF

Rather than twinned theater seats, I'd get separates.


----------



## windwaves

"T-U" ?



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinaclipper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates _*from the beginning*..._ I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....
> 
> 
> No support, no contact-it was like pulling teeth just to get questions answered.
> 
> 
> His answer to everything was acoustical panels over plywood.
> 
> 
> 
> I did notice his "company" went "T-U" not long after......
> 
> Live and learn, eh?
> 
> .
> 
> I'm not bitter though!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK Well, just maybe a BIT!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Tom
> 
> Chinaclipper


----------



## Fatawan

T(i)ts up=bankrupt=out of business, or it can also mean dead


----------



## Djstinger

I am putting the finishing touches on my DIY basement / Home Theater started 2.11.07 and still not done. I remember my wife saying ( this better not take all summer ! ), but now that it is up and running she loves it.


To all first timers like myself - Do research, research and then figure out screen size and location. During framing I moved the sceen/sitting location no fewer than 3 times and ended up putting where I had it the first time.


If you have never finished dry-wall before, pay a pro, you will get a better finish.


KISS - Keep it simple stupid


Plane for 7.1 if you can and run conduit, I wish I had , all I ran to my PJ is 1 HDMI, power and 1 Cat5e ( for my Remote system ). If I have any trouble with my HDMI I'm screwed. This is all ready my 2nd hdmi cable, the drywallers cut the first one with a roto-zip. They had to take down 3 sheets of dry-wall so I could put in the new cable they just bought for me.


Dispite what stories you may read or hear its all worth it in the end.


My total for materials, labor ( drywall hung/finished w/textured ceiling), Audio/Visual Equipment and carpet is at ( $21,200 ). The best thing is that half that cost will come with me if I ever move.


Good Luck...


----------



## The Beckster

A mistake to avoid: Remember to fill underneath the riser platform with fiberglass insulation so I m not spending money on heating / air conditioning that 'dead' space.


----------



## McCall




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Beckster* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A mistake to avoid: Remember to fill underneath the riser platform with fiberglass insulation so I m not spending money on heating / air conditioning that 'dead' space.



Not the reason to stuff it with insulation though. I suppose it could be considered a slight by product of what is in essence something done to aid in acoustic treatment.


----------



## otay

I **really** wish I would have thought about noise thru the ducts. After drywall went up recently, I was standing right below the only ceiling duct in my basement room...and heard my 3 year old yelling in her room 2 floors away as clear as if she was standing next to me.


That doesn't bother me as much as what sound might escape when the system is cranked! I've read some threads now on it and may stuff some Linacoustic or something in there...


I did double drywall, GG and Integrity Gasket so am a bit bummed I didn't do the best thing possible with this big "hole".


----------



## accts4mjs

Is there a point outside your room you could get to and make part of the run the plastic wire reinforced tubing stuff (does that make sense -- it's all through my attic). I originally ran all metal from my fan to the vents in my room for exhausting heat and you could really hear the fan (panasonic whisper fan) and I took a 1-2' section and replaced it with the plastic ducting and it's whisper quiet now (no metal to transfer vibration would be my guess).


Don't know your house so don't know how possible (nor am I an HVAC expert) but thought I'd offer.


Mike


----------



## GreySkies

I didn't put in accent lights for my screen. As I look at some other theatres, screen accent lights are like the cherry on the sundae.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

Here's another from me - when framing, I assumed that the metal I-beams supporting my house were square to the basement walls. as it turns out, they're not even close. (Measure twice, build your wall once!)


----------



## mderka

If I did it over again I would build a false screen wall to hide the front speakers. When I started I thought that this being my first room, I needed to be flexible with speaker location, but now that I know where things go, the clean look of the false front wall is really nice. (Maybe a future mod?)


----------



## Stereodude

My house isn't even finished being built yet, but I already know what I'll do next time. I'll make sure there isn't a steel I-beam holding up floor joists running through my theater.


----------



## ccubeman

I should have skipped using self-adhesive tape, mesh or otherwise. It bubbles up and furs up when sanded.


Regular old paper tape and all-purpose joint compound works like a champ. I was scared to use it, figuring it would be difficult to imbed in the mud. I was wrong about that. I ended up ripping off most of the self adhesive stuff and using regular tape.


Throughout my project I've learned... If the pros do something a particular way, there must be a good reason why.


----------



## kriscad




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *shodoug* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wondering what model of Berklines you got.
> 
> 
> I was able to try the 088's and the 090's locally, and decided on the 090's based on that.
> 
> 
> Comfort is very subjective. I am not trying to challenge your impression. Just wanting to know which model it is for the sake of knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Doug



Doug


lol i just now had time to check this thread again


here they are...

 


the cool thing I like are the motorized foot rest....


not sure which model they are without going through my old emails ( i bought them from the guy who sells them on here to the membersm naybe his name was Roman??) ... I will try to look later for the model #


but I am building a new HT down stairs in the basement, and will just stick these in the back on a riser.


like i said, they are just not the best thing to sit in after 3-4 hours of watching tv...


----------



## shodoug

Don't waste any time looking for the model number.


I don't think they are the 090's.


I was just a little curious, because the only complaint I have ever had about them is that it is too easy to go to sleep during the movie.










Best of Luck with everything in your new theater,









Doug



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kriscad* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> lol i just now had time to check this thread again
> 
> 
> here they are...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the cool thing I like are the motorized foot rest....
> 
> 
> not sure which model they are without going through my old emails ( i bought them from the guy who sells them on here to the membersm naybe his name was Roman??) ... I will try to look later for the model #
> 
> 
> but I am building a new HT down stairs in the basement, and will just stick these in the back on a riser.
> 
> 
> like i said, they are just not the best thing to sit in after 3-4 hours of watching tv...


----------



## curtfu

I made a few mistakes on my first theater.


I didn't have enough seats. I had 7 which is nice when you have another family over but you can't exaclty host a superbowl party.


I should have kept all of the equipment out of the room. It created a lot of heat and a little noise. The heat issue was obvious right away. I didn't notice anything wrong noise wise for about a month. Then the fan on my projector started to bug me quite a bit.


I had overpowered the HVAC in the front row. The front row would freeze while the back row was fine.


----------



## John Ballentine




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curtfu* /forum/post/11337470
> 
> 
> I made a few mistakes on my first theater.
> 
> 
> I didn't have enough seats. I had 7 which is nice when you have another family over but you can't exaclty host a superbowl party.
> 
> 
> I should have kept all of the equipment out of the room. It created a lot of heat and a little noise. The heat issue was obvious right away. I didn't notice anything wrong noise wise for about a month. Then the fan on my projector started to bug me quite a bit.
> 
> 
> I had overpowered the HVAC in the front row. The front row would freeze while the back row was fine.



Same exact mistakes I've made in my Home Theater!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Next time I'll mount my doors flush with the theater walls for acoustic reason, redoing them sucked. Second I will add on the equipment room, and rear columns for 7.1 from the get go. Last but not least I wil spend more time on the trim.


----------



## markayash

I, like other mentioned, was worried about the screen size. So I mounted it around 13' back.. I wish I had taken it to the back and mounted it on a shelf which would have been 19'. It would have been a lot easier to mount and wire plus I could have made a bigger screen.


----------



## tleavit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *curtfu* /forum/post/11337470
> 
> 
> I made a few mistakes on my first theater.
> 
> 
> I didn't have enough seats. I had 7 which is nice when you have another family over but you can't exaclty host a superbowl party.
> 
> 
> I should have kept all of the equipment out of the room. It created a lot of heat and a little noise. The heat issue was obvious right away. I didn't notice anything wrong noise wise for about a month. Then the fan on my projector started to bug me quite a bit.
> 
> 
> I had overpowered the HVAC in the front row. The front row would freeze while the back row was fine.



Im putting in 7 seats but have plans on a lot of bean bags, seems like a cheap fix


----------



## av noob

During the research phase (i.e., pre-design), start a document where you cut/paste the various comments and information and links from posts where you got that information. The more you read/research, the more there is to learn, and you will never retain it all. Instead, you will have vague memories of information and then spend an inordinate amount of time trying to find it again when you begin the design phase.


----------



## ChipWV

I wish I had based my lighting on zones from screen wall to the back of the theater, that way I could have some dim lights at the back, but the screen would still be dark. Not for movie watching, but for sporting events and the like, where you're likely to be moving around more. For instance, I'd have front pair of cans and sconces on one dimmer, and the back cans and sconces on another dimmer. Could have created a cool fade out from front to back effect too, for starting a movie.


Fortunately I avoided lots of problems by reading the great advice here in the dedicated forum. Thanks guys!


Chip


----------



## curtfu




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tleavit* /forum/post/11351691
> 
> 
> Im putting in 7 seats but have plans on a lot of bean bags, seems like a cheap fix



I tried the beanbag trick. Kids won't mind but adults will.


----------



## McCall

I actually decided to leave one of my nine seats out for now, put a table there for the remote instead.


----------



## Plasma George











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/10702123
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.
> 
> 
> (And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)



This is hilarious....the problem with the belt clip....works when I started in MArch and wore jeans....but as the weather got warmer, I wear shorts now, and the clip would pull my pants down.


----------



## Lindahl

Found a similar thread over at Home Theater Forum and thought I'd add a link to it so people can learn from their mistakes:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=204901


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Another mistake comes to mind. At first I did not use sealed lights, they ended up leaking sound. It was no fun redoing them, but if I had not I would have wasted a ton of money on RSIC Clips, Drywall, hat channel, Green Glue, R38. Now that I have sealed cans in the ceiling I no longer hear high / mid range leaking up stairs.


----------



## JustMike

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you. No longer hear them where?


----------



## ScottJ0007

With my theater 95% finished, there are a couple things I wish now I had done differently.


1) I bought Berkline 090's with the leather/vinyl combination and with the motorized controls. (Leather where it touches your skin, vinyl everywhere else.) The vinyl makes a terrible squeaking noise when the chair reclines as the vinyl rubs against itself. The Berklines are VERY comfortable, but the vinyl squeaks are totally unacceptable! (Anyone know a fix for this?)


2) I should have used identical speakers for the fronts and center channel. There is a slight difference in the voicing of my three front speakers, which is very annoying in some scenes.


3) I used too light of a color for the carpet.



Things I did RIGHT:

1) I used greenglue with double drywall and RSIC clips and meticulous attention to all sound isolation issues (doors, HVAC, etc.) I am absolutely thrilled with the results!


2) Huge 2.35:1 acoustically transparent screen with anamorphic lens.


3) False wall to hide the speakers and subwoofers.


4) All audio equipment is located at the back of the room with a closet that provides full access to the back of the equipment rack.


5) I got professional help (Terry Montlick) for my acoustical treatment before I started the room.


- Scott


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ScottJ0007* /forum/post/11430980
> 
> 
> The Berklines are VERY comfortable, but the vinyl squeaks are totally unacceptable! (Anyone know a fix for this?)



I've heard baby powder works. But that could be a myth.



> Quote:
> 3) I used too light of a color for the carpet.



How light did you use? what do you wish you had gone with? (I ask because I will be reaching the carpet stage before too long.)


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ccubeman* /forum/post/11303900
> 
> 
> Throughout my project I've learned... If the pros do something a particular way, there must be a good reason why.



The one thing I've never figured out is how (or why) they use DAP "Painter's Putty". I'm trying to fill the gaps in my millwork and it sticks to everything but the wall.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike* /forum/post/11424648
> 
> 
> Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you. No longer hear them where?



I'm pretty sure he means upstairs - that the sealed cans no longer leak sound through the ceiling. (20:1 he has kids.)


----------



## accts4mjs




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DMF* /forum/post/11436659
> 
> 
> The one thing I've never figured out is how (or why) they use DAP "Painter's Putty". I'm trying to fill the gaps in my millwork and it sticks to everything but the wall.



Is that the oil based stuff? That stuff is freaking annoying. Not only could I not get it to stick properly it would never cure hard. What a waste of time when I didn't have time to waste in my project.


Mike


----------



## ScottJ0007




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/11436376
> 
> 
> I've heard baby powder works. But that could be a myth.



Thanks for the tip! I tried the baby powder on my Berklines tonight and it does work to stop the squeaks. I have to be careful to wipe up any excess since it really shows on the black leather/vinyl. I still think if I were doing it again, I'd go with a cloth fabric.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/11436376
> 
> 
> How light did you use? what do you wish you had gone with? (I ask because I will be reaching the carpet stage before too long.)



I used a medium beige carpet. I wish I would have used a darker color that would disappear into the darkness more when the lights are off and the projector is turned on.


----------



## grigsby




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nuevo_eph* /forum/post/10786850
> 
> 
> What exactly do you need to do to get the projector on a UPS? I figured you have a UPS built in next to it (ugly) or you just have a long extension cord to your rack room (which has a UPS).



My garage happens to be next door to my HT room. I had an existing outlet out there which I plugged the UPS into. Then from the projector outlet I ran romex to a metal box in the garage where I converted it to a plug which then plugs into the UPS.


No unsightly UPS hanging from the ceiling and it works like a charm.


----------



## JustMike

To do the wiring from the PJ to the UPS in a fully code-compliant way, you need something called a "power inlet". These are available from various home theater do-it-yourself shops, and are WAY cheaper than some of the similar units from HT companies that have built in surge suppression and so forth. It's a NEMA ML-2 (Leviton makes them, among others).


At the projector, you put in a normal outlet, wired with Romex back to near the UPS location. At that spot, you put in another wall box, and install the inlet. You then have a power cord that plugs normally into the UPS with a standard male power connector, and then the female connector goes into the inlet, powering that outlet off of the UPS.


I haven't done this in my theater yet, but I have all the bits sitting in a bag waiting for a free afternoon...


----------



## Qsilverrdc

I really like my theater, but.....here's my 2 cents...


Don't buy a cheap door closer that only opens to 90 degrees.


Have an easy way to turn off the power to your powered sub.










Get a "good" IR/RF repeater.


If you put your sub under a stage as I have (see my theater link), make sure that it has free air circulation. Otherwise it rattles, a lot.







oh.. and make sure the sub fit's.....


If you are a DIY person as myself - paying someone else to do the drywall mudding and sanding while you consume your favorite beverage(s) can really help adjust your attitude late in the project.


Seats (my front row) that are bolted down to concrete vibrate very little... Consider building a stub riser to mount the seats to so you can feel the base...


Best of luck....


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Qsilverrdc* /forum/post/11447294
> 
> 
> If you are a DIY person as myself - paying someone else to do the drywall mudding and sanding while you consume your favorite beverage(s) can really help adjust your attitude late in the project.



I just did this this past week (actually, I was working to earn money to pay the drywallers rather than consuming beverages). It is amazing how fast a professional crew and hang drywall (160 sheets in 1.5 days).

On one hand, it's nice to have that done without dealing with the weight and mess. On the other hand, it depresses me about my own ability and speed.


----------



## gnolivos

Next time I will use proper conduit for the PJ run... the pipes I used are for water, and the fishtape is next to impossible to fish through, because it catches on every seam at every bend. UGH!!!!!


----------



## shodoug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gnolivos* /forum/post/11459209
> 
> 
> Next time I will use proper conduit for the PJ run... the pipes I used are for water, and the fishtape is next to impossible to fish through, because it catches on every seam at every bend. UGH!!!!!



If you are pulling all new cable, you might try to run a string through first by sucking it through with a shopvac.


In real conduit, we would use cotton or pieces of cloth tied to the end of the string. In your pipe, you would have to find something that would not stick to the wall of the pipe or get stuck in there...


Maybe you could find a paddle ball or wiffle ball that is small enough that it could not get stuck in the pipe?


Just a thought...


Doug


----------



## JustMike

You know what works great for me? I just wadded up a little Kleenex and tied the string to it. That was plenty good for a shop vac to suck the string through, even with lots of bends.


----------



## curtis104

For running new wire in open walls and ceiling, what kind of conduit would you suggest using? I found 3/4" flex conduit from Home Depot but I am talking about running like 3 cat5e and 7 RG6 to each room. That would be impossible to do in 3/4" flex conduit.


----------



## aquafire

I don't think it will work...i'm having a hard time getting 1 RG6 into 1/2" conduit...


----------



## JustMike

Yeah, you'll never fit that much into 3/4" flex. I used Carlon Resi-Gard Raceway, which is available in many different sizes, including some large ones meant for running in a wall cavity between floors. I used the largest size to run the cables in the ceiling to my projector.


Since you have a fully-open ceiling, though, do you really want to run your new wire in a raceway at all? I think I'd just pull your wire through the studs/joists. It'll be a lot simpler and cheaper. Then, *also* run some raceway to make it easy to add one or more unexpected cables once the walls are closed up.


The only place I didn't use the Resi-Gard was for wiring in the wall up to my plasma screen. I had the central vacuum installer run some of their narrow-wall rigid PVC for me because I needed the large diameter for the fat DVI-like connector to my plasma, and the large-diameter Resi-Gard was hard to get to go around the sharp corners needed to get into that cavity. The central vac stuff worked okay, with pretty low-profile seams inside, but it was definitely a challenge to pull that fat cable with that big connector through a couple of sharp bends in the pipe...


----------



## dc_pilgrim

2" is usually the minimum recomended, some go 3". The big box stores won't carry in flex, so you have to usestraight PVC or source the flex. I got 2" flex from smarthome which wasn't particularly cheap, but got the job done.


----------



## auscarmom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/11439614
> 
> 
> Is that the oil based stuff? That stuff is freaking annoying. Not only could I not get it to stick properly it would never cure hard. What a waste of time when I didn't have time to waste in my project.
> 
> 
> Mike



Did you find a better putty to use on the wood? I'm getting ready to start our woodwork and would love to know.


----------



## accts4mjs

I ended up just using a quick drying high density drywall joint compound. Easy to apply, easy to sand, then you prime, paint and you're done. If you're doing stain you'll need to use either a true wood putty (try to get it as smooth as possible when you apply it, it's a bear to sand) or a wax pencil after you're done finishing it.


Mike


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/11466707
> 
> 
> 2" is usually the minimum recomended, some go 3". The big box stores won't carry in flex, so you have to usestraight PVC or source the flex. I got 2" flex from smarthome which wasn't particularly cheap, but got the job done.




Check with your local electronics warehouse supply, I got my 3" from them. They were a lot cheaper than smarthome.


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *auscarmom* /forum/post/11507872
> 
> 
> Did you find a better putty to use on the wood? I'm getting ready to start our woodwork and would love to know.



If you are going to paint. I had good luck with Elmer's carpenter's wood filler.


sands well.

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarest...er-260927.aspx


----------



## GreySkies




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC* /forum/post/11563877
> 
> 
> If you are going to paint. I had good luck with Elmer's carpenter's wood filler.
> 
> 
> sands well.
> 
> http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarest...er-260927.aspx



It also takes oil-based stain very well. Water-based stain doesn't work as well with it.


----------



## crackyflipside

I'm going to add a thing I will never do again:


Do not put Romex as in-wall speaker wire. It is such a pain in the butt to work with.


----------



## usualsuspects

My Screen wall is 30" deep, I would make it 36" or more next time, it is a little tight. AT screen is 120" wide, I would make it 144" wide next time for 2.76:1 AR films. Another 2 feet of width to the room would be nice.


----------



## accts4mjs

What was the width of your room to begin with?


----------



## usualsuspects

Width is 14 feet 3 inches x 32 feet long - stairway in the middle of the lower level limits my width.


----------



## shodoug

I agree on the "couple more feet than 14".


I heard this advice, and believed it, before I built my house. Unfortunately, it was going to be cost prohibitive to do more than 14 feet, so I settled.


The concrete guy made a mistake, and I got 15' for the theater. (And after that, everyone figured out a way to deal with it very inexpensively, and another foot would not have been a problem at all...)


One more foot than the 15' would really be nice.


I am very happy with my theater, and I am sure that there are many excellent theaters that are narrower than 16', but if you have the ability, 16' wide would be really nice.


Best Regards,

Doug


----------



## usualsuspects

Yeah, 14 feet is OK for 3 large chairs across, or 4 smaller w/shared armrests. However, I get the feeling that if I had 16 feet, I would put 4 large chairs across, then it would be, hey 2 more feet would be nice so I could have 5 across and the captains chair exactly in the middle of the room, Never ends...







I learned a lot on HT build 1.0, and the major lesson for me was - more space is better, and I will fight for every extra foot in every dimension that I can get on HT 2.0.


----------



## StarrsMill Tiger

Moving in 2 weeks to a new house with drop ceiling in the basement. I have a Panny PT AE900 projector that I need to mount from the ceiling - where do I find a mount that will be easy for me to install with this type of ceiling?


Also I want to ventilate around the projector more this time as my current room gets HOT after more than 90 minutes or so of viewing - how do I accomplish this with this type of ceiling?


Thanks!


----------



## surfshoptom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *usualsuspects* /forum/post/11598415
> 
> 
> Yeah, 14 feet is OK for 3 large chairs across, or 4 smaller w/shared armrests. However, I get the feeling that if I had 16 feet, I would put 4 large chairs across, then it would be, hey 2 more feet would be nice so I could have 5 across and the captains chair exactly in the middle of the room, Never ends...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I learned a lot on HT build 1.0, and the major lesson for me was - more space is better, and I will fight for every extra foot in every dimension that I can get on HT 2.0.



I agree with you that bigger is better. However, my theater is only 12 ft wide. It's 30 feet deep. I have three rows of seating. One in front at 16 ft and one on the riser at 23 ft. The third row is on the riser behind the chairs and it's a little bar. 12 ft is adequate for my theater. I can get 3 seats in each row and I can throw bean bag chairs on the floor in front of the first row of chairs. The kids seem to like the front row. My wife and myself prefer the back row.


My theater is in my newly finished basement. There's a little mini-kitchen/wet-bar, a lounge area and a largish space for a ping pong table.


The thing I'd do different next time is the cabling for the secondary TVs. I only ran cable to those locations. Since you need a cable box for HD digital channels, I'd make arrangements to use the secondary TVs as monitors to the main cable box. At $12 ea, it's too expensive to get a box for each TV.


I'm wondering if I can use the coax output of the theater cable box to feed the secondary TVs. I have the box connected to my HT receiver by HDMI. I wonder if the coax ouput is also hot. Anyway, next time, I'd give more thought to that.


----------



## stef2

I wouldn't put any can lights in the ceiling. The sound seems to escape to the first floor from those holes. And yes I did double MDF boxes with grren glue to isolate those, but still those holes remain the weakest point in my ceiling. Should have used tray lights or soffits to put the lights in...


----------



## aquafire

Stef2- Did you put insulation above the pots?


----------



## stef2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aquafire* /forum/post/11718218
> 
> 
> Stef2- Did you put insulation above the pots?



Well the pots are inside a metallic box (the box you have to use when installing those lights in an isolated attic), then the metallic box is surrounded by two similar MDF made boxes with green glue inbetween and ROXUL insulation around and above those MDF boxes (filling the 3 inches gap between the box and the floor above).


I did a test and covered the lights with 1 inch MDF squares quickly fastened to the unfinished ceiling and the difference in sound transmission to the room above seemed evident. Maybe I could have done it better, using one more layer of MDF and a more perfect fit? But to me using those kind of lights will always create a weakness...


----------



## aquafire

Wow..that is really troubling me!


I didn't put any boxes around the pots....I could still get in there I have not started plastering yet....


DAMN!!!


----------



## rsprance

While I haven't even gotten close to being finished, I'd like to add a few right away:


* When cutting with a mitre saw (laser or otherwise) only the left side will give you the exact dimenson cut. If you have the piece you wanted to use on the right, it will be about 3/16 too short.


* NEVER assume your ceiling and walls are square.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hdtheater* /forum/post/10784003
> 
> 
> I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.



I know this is old... you still around? I installed an SMX AT screen. You have to tip the weave by at least 15 degrees. You have to buy a little more material to do this, but... no Moire!


----------



## auscarmom

I'm not done yet either. But I've learned that using Elmer's wood glue to attach molding to stainable mahogany is very dumb. I didn't even read the bottle, just figured it would be fine. Well it doesn't take stain where it seeped onto the wood and where I made a bit of a mess on the molding. AAAHHHHH! It took me hours of sanding, touching up with stain, etc.... to make it look decent. I even had to come back with an artist's brush with thick semi-dried stain on to parts that just wouldn't stain. Now it looks fine but boy oh boy don't do that! I doubt any of you would do something that dumb though.


----------



## accts4mjs

LOL! No worries, we just do other dumb things


----------



## nguyent999

I have a few things that I wish I had done differently:


1. While building the house, upgrade the main support beam to steel beam so that there there's no lolly columns in the basement, that will allow me to build larger room


2. 9' ceiling in the basement


3. Build an in-wall equipment cabinet in the back of the room(I'm retrofitting now)


4. Better lighting, 6 sconces just don't produce enough light.


----------



## pcarey

my lessons learned list starts off with "hire Dennis" but the main things I kicked myself about where:


1. Cutting 9 holes in my double dryway with greenglue for lights - idiot!! The thing is like swiss cheese in the ceiling.


2. Not running HDMI to my 2nd and 3rd screens because at the time I couldn't see a matrix switch on the market.


3. Not spending enough time getting the screen in exactly the right place. In the back row it seems a bit too low and the front seats are a fraction too close to the back ones.


4. Not thinking about how the lighting affects the screen. I have one circuit that controls all the cans but when I want some light I wish I could turn off the 3 nearest the screen and leave the others on low. Same deal with the sconces.


5. Not using RSIC (?) clips for the ceiling. If someone walks over the PJ in the kitchen upstairs the image shakes slightly and you can hear it!


6. Not getting a dedicated AC in there. It gets really hot with 7 people and an Optoma PJ...


I love the room but there are always little things to fix or do better next time!


----------



## rsprance

Heres a real dumb one i found out about today. Put the soffit up AFTER the conduit to the projector. Its impossible to slide 10' of pipe in between a 16" stud spacing. I had to cut it in half and use a coupler to combine two 5' pieces.


----------



## goondog

Another dumb one that I ran into with my framers:


during framing of a wall, start with framing around the center channel and work outward from there. Otherwise your left and right speakers setup might require adjustment of a stud to equalize their distance from the center speaker.


----------



## Belcherwm

I put some plywood between the studs to give some leeway as to the fiinal location of the speaker mounts.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Next time I will have more bass traps. I'll make the columns where possible into broad band absorbers. My 6' x 12' riser did not turn out to be enough in my room.


----------



## frorule

90% done here... Nothing yet... I hired out the drywall finishing thanks to this thread.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Well, the riser was enough ... it was just placed in the wrong place to be effective and tuned incorrectly. Oh, well.







Kraz will have you on the right track any second now.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yeah he has me on the right track


----------



## tleavit

I did spend a lot of time here while I was working on it and did sacrifice a lot of things in the name of "cost" and I knew I would have those issues so they don’t bother me. But there are a few things I didn’t know about now that I wish I had done:


1) Projector ceiling mount work. Kids jumping upstairs still rattle it a bit even though I friggen insulated the hell out of the ceiling. Need some kind of hardware based shock absorber.

2) Window: I should have framed over the window on the theater side of my basement. ITs rattling like a SOB with heavy Bass (can only hear it rattling from the outside, not the inside). It would have been a fight with the wife though.

3) Flat black paint on ceiling. I knew I needed it, pushed my wife for it and conceded thinking the dark grey semi gloss would be good enough. Nope, to much glare. Sides have to much also. Have to actively come up with a fix for this which will probably involved curtains.


Good picture with the glare:


----------



## gdc

Next time:


-more and better lighting. As someone else posted, six sconces does not give enough lighting for a 12 x 25 room. Some of things I need are lighting for seeing how to get to your seat, lighting for reading that DVD case, lighting for viewing settings on equipment, etc.


-design seating before construction done. As it turns out, due to PJ mounting, screen size and ridiculously low ceiling (6' 10" - digging down would have tripled costs), I will have to have a riser for 2nd row. Would have been nice to contruct and install BEFORE finish work and carpet in...


-ventilation. I have good airflow in, but the HVAC contractor didn't deal with exhausting stale air. I will have to install some hack to vent stale air somehow.


-lighting automation. Crestron was completely out of my price range, yet I didn't find out about lesser cost alternatives. It's really a hassle to get up and fumble in the dark for the light switch after/during a movie.


-room treatment. In the typical sized basement theater, you can't have too much bass trapping. I wish I had incorporated bass traps into the design. It's a lot more disruptive (and much lower in WAF) to do this after the fact.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tleavit* /forum/post/12259170
> 
> 
> 3) Flat black paint on ceiling. I knew I needed it, pushed my wife for it and conceded thinking the dark grey semi gloss would be good enough. Nope, to much glare.



The problem isn't the color, it's the gloss. _Any_ color semi-gloss (or satin or eggshell) is wrong for a theater viewing area.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gdc* /forum/post/12262576
> 
> 
> Next time:
> 
> 
> -lighting automation. Crestron was completely out of my price range, yet I didn't find out about lesser cost alternatives. It's really a hassle to get up and fumble in the dark for the light switch after/during a movie.



You can retrofit with Insteon or Z-Wave or X10 or something else.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

Had a new one from last night. I finished stapling all the fabric to the walls (some 12,000 staples later) and measured the columns just to make sure I had the width right. I found that the space for 4 of the columns is 19" and for the other two columns is only 17.5".


My wife and I both put up the furring strips, so I don't know which one of us put it on the wrong side of the line. But either way, I should have checked before putting up the fabric. Luckily, I bought a few yards extra!


----------



## scaesare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/12269492
> 
> 
> Had a new one from last night. I finished stapling all the fabric to the walls (some 12,000 staples later) and measured the columns just to make sure I had the width right. I found that the space for 4 of the columns is 19" and for the other two columns is only 17.5".
> 
> 
> My wife and I both put up the furring strips, so I don't know which one of us put it on the wrong side of the line. But either way, I should have checked before putting up the fabric. Luckily, I bought a few yards extra!



Hence the "Column Test Jig":











Seriously, that sucks. But it sounds like two of your panels are too wide? (Thus leaving too little room for those columns?)


If so, why do you need extra fabric? Can't you cut the fabric along the staples, move the furring strip over, and re-staple?


----------



## rsprance

Here's some more after finishing my first tape/spackle job:


* use the paper tape, not the mesh. The paper tape takes a little longer to get the hang of but its a little easier to cover smoothly in the 2nd and third coats.


* do the least conspicuous wall first. you will get better as you go along. I was dumb enough to do the most prominent wall first.


* for the first coat of mud, water down the compound a little bit. It makes life so much easier. A pro taper suggested that to me.


* Wet the tape in water just before you put it up and try to get all the mud out from under it in one long smooth swipe. dont keep trying to make it better with more mud, you will make it worse. its good if you can still see the tape. 2nd and 3rd coats will take care of it.


* lightly sand (dont scrape) between coats.


* use the sponge sanders. Those pro sand blocks and screens dont give you a good feel.


*its the most boring and disgusting phase of the process. if you take your time you will be very happy when its all over.


----------



## kansashick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *accts4mjs* /forum/post/11146731
> 
> 
> Is there a point outside your room you could get to and make part of the run the plastic wire reinforced tubing stuff (does that make sense -- it's all through my attic). I originally ran all metal from my fan to the vents in my room for exhausting heat and you could really hear the fan (panasonic whisper fan) and I took a 1-2' section and replaced it with the plastic ducting and it's whisper quiet now (no metal to transfer vibration would be my guess).
> 
> 
> Don't know your house so don't know how possible (nor am I an HVAC expert) but thought I'd offer.
> 
> 
> Mike



Using this conduit also allows you to make bends in the conduit furthering reducing sound transmission from the HT. Everyone should use this product for HT ductwork.


----------



## kansashick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Stereodude* /forum/post/11285221
> 
> 
> My house isn't even finished being built yet, but I already know what I'll do next time. I'll make sure there isn't a steel I-beam holding up floor joists running through my theater.



Why? I have this across my HT and, according to my CI, he wishes that all of his projects had these to break standing waves.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scaesare* /forum/post/12277611
> 
> 
> Hence the "Column Test Jig":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, that sucks. But it sounds like two of your panels are too wide? (Thus leaving too little room for those columns?)
> 
> 
> If so, why do you need extra fabric? Can't you cut the fabric along the staples, move the furring strip over, and re-staple?



I did manage exactly what you suggested - cutting the fabric, moving the furring strip, and restapling worked. The extra fabric was in case it didn't.


----------



## kansashick

When designing my HT, I asked my CI whether to use wall mounted or built in side speakers. He said that wall mounted had a better sound. What we did not consider is that people bump into the speakers walking to their chairs. Haven't crashed down yet but it is just a matter of time.


----------



## Nick R

I designed a corner component cabinet for my theater. The top houses components, and the bottom has room for about 300 dvd's. Once everything is set up, it works really great. I designed plenty of ventilation into it, so that's not a concern.


However, getting to the back of my receiver is a major pain. Next time, I'll include a hidden room where I can access the backs of all my components easily.


----------



## scaesare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nick R* /forum/post/12317032
> 
> 
> I designed a corner component cabinet for my theater. The top houses components, and the bottom has room for about 300 dvd's. Once everything is set up, it works really great. I designed plenty of ventilation into it, so that's not a concern.
> 
> 
> However, getting to the back of my receiver is a major pain. Next time, I'll include a hidden room where I can access the backs of all my components easily.



Or a removable panel:


----------



## Driving_Hamster

This thread has saved me some headaches already. As I type the drywall guys are hanging the sheets on the entire basement (53 sheets, some as long as 16 feet!). They told me that it might take the two guys almost 2 weeks to hang, tape and mud the entire basement. It's not going to be cheap but money well spent IMHO.


Now that I am thinking about it I would of put larger ENT conduit in for wire runs. Currently have 1". I elected to zip tie my HDMI cable to the outside of the PJ conduit before they drywalled since I know I will need that one for sure. Wanted to save some room in the conduit. Just hoping that it's not a bum cable







.


----------



## The Bogg

I'm sure someone's already listed it...measure the length of cables needed rather than just estimating it. I thought I was going way over my needs but turns out (of course!) that my cables were a little short in a couple of locations. Thankfully shipping longer cables didn't take too long (from BlueJeansCable) but it meant that the contractor had to put in a metal conduit so that it wouldn't hold up construction.


----------



## scaesare




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Driving_Hamster* /forum/post/12449088
> 
> 
> This thread has saved me some headaches already. As I type the drywall guys are hanging the sheets on the entire basement (53 sheets, some as long as 16 feet!). They told me that it might take the two guys almost 2 weeks to hang, tape and mud the entire basement. It's not going to be cheap but money well spent IMHO.
> 
> 
> Now that I am thinking about it I would of put larger ENT conduit in for wire runs. Currently have 1". I elected to zip tie my HDMI cable to the outside of the PJ conduit before they drywalled since I know I will need that one for sure. Wanted to save some room in the conduit. Just hoping that it's not a bum cable
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .




Yeah, connector heads can make that tight, especially with more than one cable.


----------



## JWKessler

I installed a black Armstrong dropped ceiling and made one big boo boo doing it. As I installed the tiles a few got dusty finger smudges on them. "No problem" I thought, "just take a clean slightly damp cloth or sponge and wipe the tiles clean." Wrong! This left even worse looking water marks on the tiles. It changed the finish to a duller look where the tiles were wiped, and the black finish took on a lighter dark gray appearance. What a mess. I tried painting over the mess but that too only made it look worse. At best the painted tiles look much different than the factory finish tiles. At worst, the finish is inconsistent and splotchy. The only fix was to remove the messy tiles and replace them with new. I now have an extra box of ugly black ceiling tiles.


----------



## bqmeister

I haven't read all this thread.


I didn't really have a whole lot of say in my room. It was new construction, but not custom, and few changes were allowed. Basically the shell of the room is 36' by almost 14' with sloped ceilings (8 feet high basically).


I added a bathroom to the back of the room. And there's an AC chase in the front wall, so I'm now working with a 29x14 shell.


I planned pretty well. I added plenty of outlets in the ceiling and along the front wall. Also added an outlet near the screen location in case I use an electric screen.


I was able to do some stuff in the shell before drywall. I didn't have (or know what kind of) cables yet, but ran 1 1/2 conduit to 2 locations (1 in the ceiling, 1 in the side wall).
*Should have run 2 inch conduit*


I put two outlets on the ceiling to make it easier to switch projectors later.

:up:


The AC chase on the front wall was only on 1 side of the wall. Had them add a second duplicate blank chase on the other side. Extremely important for mounting my screen.

:up:


Chose a perfect carpet for the room (dark burgundy). Actually, my wife picked that out.

:up:


After move-in, regretted not putting in any floor outlets. Initially thought it'd be nice for a floor mounted projector, but realize ceiling mounting is sooo much better.


I measured the speaker wire a tad short. It works, but adding a couple extra feet would have been much better. I ran that wire, so the fault is definitely all mine.


I had a friend wire ethernet and coax in the room. 4 coax in a single location and 4 ethernet (2 in 1 location, 1 in ceiling, 1 on side wall). Those wiring needs have proven sufficient. I could use more ethernet in one location, but nothing a simple switch won't fix. It's a $20 mistake I can live with.


There are two mistakes that I regret though.


1) I've got a nice large landing area right outside the door. Great location for a popcorn machine. It's outside the room (no smell in the room, plenty of light in that location) but - I don't have any electricity over there. I can fix that later, but it'd have been a lot simpler to add that during construction. Never thought about that during any planning though.


2) My first foray into front projection. I've ALWAYS had the equipment in the front of the room. I'm just used to pointing the remote towards the front so surely the equipment must be there, right?

I've got a great location next to the bathroom in the back. I've got power there in a nice little nook about 2 feet deep and 3 1/2 feet wide. Equipment would have been PERFECT there. But I probably should have run an extra outlet back there, and I didn't run any ethernet or coax back there.


Those blinking lights in the front are less than ideal. And it's hard to get to the equipment (everything is low - below the screen).


I may eventually try to move everything to the back of the room. Maybe.


Live and learn.


I was able to deal with the cable in the conduit. Painful, but it worked out.

My only real


----------



## nahtanoj

I moved about a year ago. In my old house, we had 1 big open room for the theater and entertainment area. My new house is a bit bigger and we're designing a dedicated 20'x16' room. I learned a lot from my last theater:


1. Estimate the wire length as others have said, then add a fudge factor (5-10% is what I'm doing), particulalry for pre-made cables. I underestimated my subwoofer cables and when my rack pulled out and turned, the cable pulled out and was hard to get back in.


2. If you're going to pre-wire and don't know where to put your subs, use wall plates with RCA jacks (I found them at Home Depot) in alternative locations. I'm now using HSU 1220s, which are passive subs with a seperate amp. They use speaker wire. This time, I'm pre-wiring for both the passive subs and future self-powered subs. Rather than having to fish for wire in the wall, I'm using wall jacks for almost everything. Audioholics may frown on this, but that's okay.


3. Projector outlet. I put it in the ceiling and covered it with drywall with no access panel. Not very bright.


4. I put the rack in the front - although it would have been hard to figure out in a big open room where else to put it, but I ad to turn on a light to see wha I was doing, and if in the middle of a movie, it disturbed everyone.


5. U shaped sectionals do not make good home theater seats. Go with either straight couches or something like Berklines. My wife and I compromised on the sectional last time, and the people sitting on the side had to turn their head to see the screen, making it really a 3-4 seat theater.


6. Make the rack bigger then you need. I added one shelf more than I needed last time, but them decided to add a video game, and wanted to add a place for records and a turn table (to go retro), the sub amp and other stuff. In you'e into this hobby, you'll find something to buy and need more space.


7. To NOT built in shelves to the sides of the front wall. This was another compromise. We put in display shelves for things like nice vases. Another mistake! I could never get them to stop vibrating.


8. To add an ethernet and phone line connection to the rack. I didn't have one last time, and now I will - and I'll make it accessible. I may even have 2 ethernet cables run for a PS3 and another component.


9. To design the rack in a way that allows a light to be added so you can turn it (and only it) on when you need to see in there in the dark.


10. Darker carpet. I used beige.


11. A black screen wall.


12. A shelf mount instead of a ceiling mount for the pj for a cleaner look.


13. Simple lights with an IR or RF remote that I can program into my universal simply. My lights were simple last time, but all manual.


14. A rack power supply/surge protector. I never had a power issue, noise from power, spike or anything of the sort. But when I wanted to access cords, I had to put my hand into the back of the rack and fish around. It was a pain.


I think that's about it. It seems worse than it was. It still blew me, my wife, kids and friends away every time, but a few nits and it could be been even better.


I hope that helps someone.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> I asked my CI whether to use wall mounted or built in side speakers. He said that wall mounted had a better sound.



This is non-sense to begin with, but when your CI starts making "glittering generalities" like this, or starts saying things that don't make sense and not offering an explanation that falls clearly into the realm of good science, find someone else.


----------



## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/12614734
> 
> 
> This is non-sense to begin with, but when your CI starts making "glittering generalities" like this, or starts saying things that don't make sense and not offering an explanation that falls clearly into the realm of good science, find someone else.



It is total nonsense and so is what the poster reports of having the theater designed in such a way that people can bang into them. However, I think it's a bit hard to judge that type of statement out of context. Most of the open back in-wall speakers on the market are seriously flawed compared to a well designed box speaker. So absent the use of an excellent in-wall speaker such as a Triad Gold in-wall surround (or a similar variant from another company), or absent the ability to build a "real" speaker into a wall or column, or absent the budget for a good enclosed in-wall, the statement might not be unreasonable.


If a person for example had a budget of say $500 a pair for the surround speakers, I think there would be a hack of a lot more options for good sound using an on-wall speaker. I do not know of many (any?) good in-walls in that price range that I would want to use for a dedicated theater.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Key phrase ... "glittering generalities". Something from J-school.

When an educated professional doesn't have it in his vernacular or approach to a consumer, he is not educating, he is not being professional, the consumer cannot make an "informed consent", and one simply needs to wonder what other b.s. has been provided to a consumer simply attempting to get the best value for his dollar (regardless of how many of those $$$ is in the budget).


Sorry folks. I have a very low tolerance for people in our industry pulling this stuff. It ruins it for everyone.


Several years ago a poll was run asking people to list their perception of the least trustworthy professions. Audio/Video sales people were second to last. Remodeling contractors were last. In the CI business, we loose on both counts.


----------



## tleavit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/12616344
> 
> 
> Several years ago a poll was run asking people to list their perception of the least trustworthy professions. Audio/Video sales people were second to last. Remodeling contractors were last. In the CI business, we loose on both counts.



ya, Im gonna have to argee. One of the things I did right was "do it myself" (for about $7K) when I was getting contractor quotes for the same thing at $35K


----------



## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/12616344
> 
> 
> Key phrase ... "glittering generalities". Something from J-school.
> 
> When an educated professional doesn't have it in his vernacular or approach to a consumer, he is not educating, he is not being professional, the consumer cannot make an "informed consent", and one simply needs to wonder what other b.s. has been provided to a consumer simply attempting to get the best value for his dollar (regardless of how many of those $$$ is in the budget).



I agree Dennis, I was simply pointing out that based on the very limited statement by the poster I would not jump all over the statement without knowing the full context within which the discussion took place.


----------



## QQQ




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/12616344
> 
> 
> Several years ago a poll was run asking people to list their perception of the least trustworthy professions. Audio/Video sales people were second to last. Remodeling contractors were last. In the CI business, we loose on both counts.



An A/V science poll or a "real" poll







? I don't know if I can give the poll much value if it rated A/V sales people and remodelers worse than car sales people







.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Car sales people were third from the bottom. I don't recall who commissioned the poll; but, it was along the lines of "Business Week" or "Time".


----------



## kansashick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fatawan* /forum/post/11097701
> 
> 
> T(i)ts up=bankrupt=out of business, or it can also mean dead



In techie circles, we prefer the expression "casters up."


----------



## kansashick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *QQQ* /forum/post/12614876
> 
> 
> If a person for example had a budget of say $500 a pair for the surround speakers, I think there would be a hack of a lot more options for good sound using an on-wall speaker. I do not know of many (any?) good in-walls in that price range that I would want to use for a dedicated theater.



As I recall, my surrounds cost about $600 each, they are Atlantic Technology 8200e surrounds.


----------



## frorule




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/12616344
> 
> 
> Several years ago a poll was run asking people to list their perception of the least trustworthy professions. Audio/Video sales people were second to last. Remodeling contractors were last. In the CI business, we loose on both counts.




This may be semantics, but isn't being last on the list a good thing.


----------



## Luis5150




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tleavit* /forum/post/12259170
> 
> 
> 2) Window: I should have framed over the window on the theater side of my basement. ITs rattling like a SOB with heavy Bass (can only hear it rattling from the outside, not the inside). It would have been a fight with the wife though.



This option was recommended to me by a friend and I got great results not only controlling the annoying rattling from the window next to my subwoofer, but it helped with noise coming from the outside as well and with any light coming in...
http://www.asc-soundproof.com/windowplug-flyer.pdf


----------



## tleavit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis5150* /forum/post/12827478
> 
> 
> This option was recommended to me by a friend and I got great results not only controlling the annoying rattling from the window next to my subwoofer, but it helped with noise coming from the outside as well and with any light coming in...
> http://www.asc-soundproof.com/windowplug-flyer.pdf



Awesome! Thanks! These guys are within driving distance for me. Heck, we have an office in Eugene


----------



## windrockwater

Here is a list of my "wish i could've done it differentlies":


-Locate the speaker terminal plates carefully if using floor standing speakers. My cable are not directly behind the speakers so you see a little of the cable

-Run way more cable than you think. I changed projectors and now wish i had another HDMI or DVI to my ceiling mount

-Dont have any direct lighting. Make it all indirect. And have the ability to have lights on at the back of the room but not the front by the screen

-I love my cove lighting. Great effect. I bet the star ceilings are amazing.

-Configure remote lighting. Its very convenient.


----------



## CJO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nahtanoj* /forum/post/12614622
> 
> 
> 13. Simple lights with an IR or RF remote that I can program into my universal simply. My lights were simple last time, but all manual.



FYI- this is very easy to retrofit.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Luis5150* /forum/post/12827478
> 
> 
> This option was recommended to me by a friend and I got great results not only controlling the annoying rattling from the window next to my subwoofer, but it helped with noise coming from the outside as well and with any light coming in...
> http://www.asc-soundproof.com/windowplug-flyer.pdf



Awesome- I was wrestling on whether to cover the existing windows when I finish the room or making something like this. I'm glad to see that there is a commercial product, though the bright metal handles stick out.


CJ


----------



## tannerjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *gdc* /forum/post/12262576
> 
> 
> Next time:
> 
> 
> -ventilation. I have good airflow in, but the HVAC contractor didn't deal with exhausting stale air. I will have to install some hack to vent stale air somehow.
> 
> 
> -lighting automation. Crestron was completely out of my price range, yet I didn't find out about lesser cost alternatives. It's really a hassle to get up and fumble in the dark for the light switch after/during a movie.





Did your HVAC d00d not put in cold air returns?


I went with Maestro IRs not too bad so far! SUPER affordable @ ~$35-40/each


----------



## The Bogg

I chose a general contractor based on a reference (from a fellow AVSer). I did it the way my friend did by agreeing to pay an hourly rate plus parts (I know, I know, it rarely works out in the customers favour). The reason I did that was because the dedicated room had some unusual construction (double drywall with non-overlapping seams with green glue in between and isolated from Isomax hangers. Fabric walls etc... Design by Rives Audio with diffusors builtin etc....). I figured because it worked for my friend it would be fine. I was given a ballpark time estimate of mid-January for completion. Based on that, I figured the hourly rate thing would be fine. Well mid-January came and went and we blew through a couple more deadlines at which point I realized that I didn't really have any recourse. It seemed to my wife and I that productivity was slowing down. Finally, I sat down and did up a contract for the remaining work and settled on a dollar number that was probably way too high. He was doing a pretty good job but I felt that he was wasting a bit of time etc..... If I fired him it would be a pita to find someone else to finish up so I just ate it on this one. In the end I don't know if I significantly overpaid for the job. It has been damn expensive. Problem was also that I didn't really set a budget. He knew I was an MD so he probably figured that the money supply was endless (wrong!) which was partly my fault because I waited too long to straighten things out.


Things to do differently and learn from:


1. The contractor has been in business longer than you and is much smarter than you in business matters. You must realize this when designing the contract. Do your research first and don't cut corners when doing it. Never assume that they have your best interests at heart. They are just trying to make a living and will try to maximize their income. Nothing wrong with that, just don't think that because you're "friends" that they'll cut you a good deal.


2. Even if someone has been referred and has done good work, get a contract anyway. I don't know what recourse there is when deadlines are missed and I'd be interested in hearing from other people what they think. From talking to my friends, it seems that it's very common to miss deadlines and go over budget and you just have to live with it.


3. Itemize things to be done and try to get a quote from multiple sources even if you think that your construction is unique (ha ha like silly me!)


4. Listen to your dad and father-in-law when they tell you that they don't think it's a good idea to do the hourly rate thing - they've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt.


Hopefully there will be closure real soon and I can post some lovely pics of my setup...


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Bogg* /forum/post/13065705
> 
> 
> I chose a general contractor based on a reference (from a fellow AVSer). I did it the way my friend did by agreeing to pay an hourly rate plus parts (I know, I know, it rarely works out in the customers favour). The reason I did that was because the dedicated room had some unusual construction (double drywall with non-overlapping seams with green glue in between and isolated from Isomax hangers. Fabric walls etc... Design by Rives Audio with diffusors builtin etc....). I figured because it worked for my friend it would be fine. I was given a ballpark time estimate of mid-January for completion. Based on that, I figured the hourly rate thing would be fine. Well mid-January came and went and we blew through a couple more deadlines at which point I realized that I didn't really have any recourse. It seemed to my wife and I that productivity was slowing down. Finally, I sat down and did up a contract for the remaining work and settled on a dollar number that was probably way too high. He was doing a pretty good job but I felt that he was wasting a bit of time etc..... If I fired him it would be a pita to find someone else to finish up so I just ate it on this one. In the end I don't know if I significantly overpaid for the job. It has been damn expensive. Problem was also that I didn't really set a budget. He knew I was an MD so he probably figured that the money supply was endless (wrong!) which was partly my fault because I waited too long to straighten things out.
> 
> 
> Things to do differently and learn from:
> 
> 
> 1. The contractor has been in business longer than you and is much smarter than you in business matters. You must realize this when designing the contract. Do your research first and don't cut corners when doing it. Never assume that they have your best interests at heart. They are just trying to make a living and will try to maximize their income. Nothing wrong with that, just don't think that because you're "friends" that they'll cut you a good deal.
> 
> 
> 2. Even if someone has been referred and has done good work, get a contract anyway. I don't know what recourse there is when deadlines are missed and I'd be interested in hearing from other people what they think. From talking to my friends, it seems that it's very common to miss deadlines and go over budget and you just have to live with it.
> 
> 
> 3. Itemize things to be done and try to get a quote from multiple sources even if you think that your construction is unique (ha ha like silly me!)
> 
> 
> 4. Listen to your dad and father-in-law when they tell you that they don't think it's a good idea to do the hourly rate thing - they've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt.
> 
> 
> Hopefully there will be closure real soon and I can post some lovely pics of my setup...



Ha! I did exactly the same thing and could have written the exact same points with the same tone as you. My contractor's a good guy and does good work... he and his wife have become friends even. But, they do want to make money. The difference from you is that he built my theater only as part of the whole damned HOUSE done as time and material. I thought I was being so smart. He said, "It's not going to work." He was right. It was stressful toward the end and I probably paid 10 to 15% more than a fixed bid. But I also got some interesting upgrades options. AND I got that 16' by 22' dedicated home theater with the 10' wide SMX screen and JVC RS1 projector! It turned out awesome.


Same lesson: Don'e go time & materials! Dumb-me!


----------



## hotel96

Interesting comments about NOT going with T&M. I was thinking about doing time and materials for only the electrical work, because I wanted to purchase some of my own materials and don't know my exact electrical requirements. Would anyone advise against that approach?


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hotel96* /forum/post/13068321
> 
> 
> Interesting comments about NOT going with T&M. I was thinking about doing time and materials for only the electrical work, because I wanted to purchase some of my own materials and don't know my exact electrical requirements. Would anyone advise against that approach?



Small jobs... I'm not sure. At some point there's a dividing line. Like, if you hired a plumber to fix your sink and asked for a contract, that would be silly. Wait... you DO sign an estimate for that. So I don't know for small jobs. I hope someone else chimes in. I'd like the input myself.


----------



## Justletmein

I am in the building industry and all I can say is ... do your research and be specific as to who you hire


what I mean is ... if DIY is not your thing then get one of the guys on here or a reputable HT designer to do the plans


then if you need framing ... get 3 quotes and hire a framer


then a electrician ... get 3 quotes and hire a electrician ( be specific based on the above plan and make sure they quote for the complete job ) ... to save a few bucks here you can get them to quote including things like HDMI or without ( see monoprice or bluejean cable )


then drywall ... same as above get 3 quotes and hire it as a complete contract


MOST important here is 2 things


make sure they provide references ... and check the references ... go see the workmanship


secondly NEVER pay for the job up front ... pay it out as half up front and half on completion ... if the trade wont go for that arrangement then keep looking for a new trade ... any trade that wont go for that deal is sure to give you either shoddy workmanship or else wont complete the work


I hope that helps those considering a HT build in the future


PS ... if you have any DIY skills at all do as much of the build yourself and be sure to get a building permit


----------



## rsprance




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hotel96* /forum/post/13068321
> 
> 
> Interesting comments about NOT going with T&M. I was thinking about doing time and materials for only the electrical work, because I wanted to purchase some of my own materials and don't know my exact electrical requirements. Would anyone advise against that approach?




Maybe a T&M with a "not to exceed" price so you don't get riped off?


----------



## The Bogg

I thought about the "not to exceed"...I'm sure if you did that then it would end up costing that price! (i.e. then there would be no value to the hourly rate thing)


----------



## shodoug

Just came a cross a new one.


I would make the opening to the stage wider.


10 feet in a 15 foot wide room is pretty good, bu I think we really would have wanted the CIH 2.35 AR to be 10.5 or eleven feet.


I'll be trying a wider screen in front, to see how it would look, and if we really would want it that large.


If it could go back in the stage, we certainly would have liked the 2.35 to be more than 10 feet.


Doug


----------



## nathan_h

T&M versus fixed price: I try to stick to T&M for jobs that are really discrete (eg, wire the ceiling light cans, mud and tape the drywall) of up to TWO DAYS duration and no longer. And then I schedule them for when I'm around and make sure there's nothing funny going on.


Anything spec-ed for longer requires a fixed price, in my home.


And unless I have an established long term relationship with the tradesman, I get competative quotes and referrals and check their work elsewhere.


And, even with all that, I still get burned sometimes. But I can rest assured I've done as much diligence as is reasonable.


----------



## The Bogg

Good points Nathan. It would almost have been worthwhile for me to hire a "snoop" to sit in the basement while they worked to make sure they were working efficiently. Ah well, live and learn. Now that it's a fixed price the "helper" is no longer around ($25/hour) and they seem to be working a bit faster! Yay.


----------



## ltfields

A few things I learned from my first HT build almost 2 years ago:


- Speed kills, I underestimated the time it took to finish BIG Time. I figured I could slap together a simple basement finish and do the HT setup in one part of the main room. I was trying to finish the basement on time for an annual LAN party, and while I did finish the basement in only 7 1/2 weeks, I just about killed myself in the process (I was wiring up the CAT6 jacks as people were setting up for the party, it was that close).


- Subbing out the drywall was one of the best decisions I made (they did a great job, and faster than I would have done), but I'll refer to the "Speed kills" section above, as I was figuring they would finish about a week sooner than they did. Would still sub it out, but don't be in a hurry...


- I would have researched more on equipment racks and done a flushmount setup. I had the room for it, but just figured I would get a free-standing unit I found on the interweb. It works, but it's facing the wrong way and I paid way too much for it anyway.


- Get a receiver with HDMI, at the time I figured I could get away with component, but I've added some more equipment, and I regret it now.


- I'm glad I did 2 things right though. I put service loops in for all my speaker wire (just coil up and extra loop or two at each end when you run it) so I didn't have to worry about lengths on the cabling. I also put in 1 1/2 conduit for my video cabling, so I can go back and install HDMI later with my pull string.


Lastly, since the basement was also going to hold LAN parties, I overbuilt electrical and networking and it's paid off. I have a dedicated 50-amp circuit with it's own box in the basement and I ran extra outlets all over the basement. I also ran 8 quads of cat6 to the various walls, so I can comfortably get 20+ gamers down there with their rigs and I haven't tripped a breaker yet.


I'm planning to retro the A/V equipment into a rack this summer, so if people have suggestions on flush-mount 19inch racks that are easy to retro in, I'm all ears!


----------



## eugovector

Sounds awesome, got a thread with pics?


----------



## ltfields

I do have pics of the basement finish, but haven't started a thread. I'll see if I can dig them up and get a thread set up.


----------



## eugovector




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ltfields* /forum/post/13099269
> 
> 
> I do have pics of the basement finish, but haven't started a thread. I'll see if I can dig them up and get a thread set up.



Cool, thanks. Always love spying on people's theaters.


----------



## CCLAY

What I'd do different. Hmm, let's see. I think I'd have had the person that designed it be the one who is building it!! That would be Mr. Dennis Erskine. I would've been eating popcorn and watching movies a long time ago.







Note the cool theater seating.


Actually, it's been kinda fun. I have a great woodsmith that is making me some unbelievable stuff in columns, trim, etc. The rest I'm doing myself. Well......it keeps me out of the bars.










Chris


----------



## JustMike

Nice, Chris! Who did the cool paint on the ceiling? Also, which of Dennis's packages did you opt for, if I may ask? (DIY, "Select", "Signature", etc?)


----------



## CCLAY

Thanks Mike. I started off with Milano Blue but just kept thinking I wanted something more without being gawdy or stand 'outish'. I started looking at pics of Nebulas and such and this is what I came up with. I had a buddy who paints customs for a living do the work. All air brush.


Way back when I hired Dennis to do the plans, I don't think he had those package options per se, but I think it would have been the DIY plan.


Chris


----------



## JustMike

Thanks for the info! Congrats to your buddy -- nice job!


----------



## ltfields

I've gone ahead and started putting up some pictures of my build from almost 2 years ago in the General HT Forum, since it's not a dedicated HT (maybe next house).


More http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=994123


----------



## tkjacobs

I had my sub placement all planned out (out of sight, behind the "false wall").

Turns out it sounded like complete crap.


I place 12Gauge fed outlets in the back of the room just in case I ended up with subs back there.........well, I forgot to run a signal line back!!!


Thankfullly the rest of the basement was unfinished and I was able to (after 5 hours....) feed 75-ohm quad-shield back and down through the insulated wall.

I just happened to have a heat vent in the room above the HT...lucky.


So, lesson learned: plan on, and wire in (coax quad shield works great) drops for the subs in any location they may possibly end up!


----------



## John Martin

What would I do differently next time?


1. DO NOT try to finish 1400SF all at once. It is too easy to suffer burnout with that much to do. I' have been done months ago if I would not have had to do so much.


That is about the only thing that I have done that I regret (not so much regret but wish I would have split up).


John


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *John Martin* /forum/post/13144090
> 
> 
> 1. DO NOT try to finish 1400SF all at once. It is too easy to suffer burnout with that much to do. I' have been done months ago if I would not have had to do so much.



I'm at the burnout stage of a similarly-sized project, so I agree with this statment. (Anyone know a good trim carpenter to put up my molding for me?)


That said, it's hard not to do it all at once from an ease of construction/financial point of view.


----------



## knightgambit

I work for a company that does a LOT of government work. You want to know where they make their money - winning jobs that are T&M. The gov't ends up paying out wazzu for these jobs - these are the type jobs that create $400 hammers and $17,000 toilets. ( I actually saw one of these, and they are really a lot more than that lol )


I just had my HVAC work done and payed $1200 fixed cost to have the entire basement duct work and returns installed to my specs. I worked only to a quoted price - you never know when THEY screw up and forget that they can't get behind a wall to run what you ask and then spend 8 hours they didn't plan on. If you are fair, walk them through the job, and let them be the pro's they shouldn't have a problem quoting a fixed price. If you ask me, I only want contractors that will tell me what it is going to cost, up front - even on the smallest of jobs. Just my 2 cents on that.


This is an awesome thread. I am in the very early stages of design and *cough* construction. After reading this thread throughout the day, I have decided to halt construction and cover some bases before moving on. A few things already on my list -


Move the lolli-column that is bugging me 7". I have struggled with designing around it for hours. If I would just pay the few dollars to move it 7", my theater would be centered, I would go from a 88" to a 102" width screen, AND my sub and my center would both fit under the screen (currently it's one or the other and the sub is going to win, so the center would be mounted above pointing down).


I just started an Excel spread sheet and took notes from this thread (as suggested).

I will go to an isolated mount for the PJ instead of framing and plywood.

I would have never thought to run the UPS to the PJ

I don't know why I would need 2 HDMI's at the projector, but from this thought, I will add a 2" wire channel from the PJ to the AV rack and make an access point in the ceiling.

I am going to move the AV rack from beside the screen. Actually, I'm going to turn it sideways, so the front of the AV rack points away but then I put a sold door where the front used to be and have a really nice access panel without needing to build in a sep room

I am pulling the screen 18" from the wall. I can see where more would be nice, but this only leaves my seating a 11', I don't want to get any closer.

I already framed all the soffits and didn't leave the 1" gap for the rope lighting. This was bothering me, but I was just plugging on.


My big lesson is - if it is bothering me, STOP... I have to realize that this is going to take 2 years whether I like it or not. And it may as well be 2 years of fun and creativity instead of frustration and comprises.


Great thread ! And a great forum !


----------



## BritInVA

I remembered another one.


Either install bar (kitchen) cabinets after floor installed or raise cabinets by height of new floor as if you don't any appliances will be a PITA to install.


I of course did not and had to remove the feet of my Beverage fridge to get it to fit


----------



## BritInVA

And another thing I wished I did was put a small sub-panel in the the garage or unfinished area of basement.


I'm working on plans for Master Bedroom remodel and the damn builder maxed out the circuit.....I need to get another circuit and the panel is in HT. Holes are going need to be cut and relishing thought of patching red paint


----------



## AbMagFab

1) Buy separates (amp, pre-amp) from the beginning. You'll end up constantly upgrading until you reach this point anyway, so do it from the start. (Related to #3 speakers.)


2) Make sure pre-amp has 4 or more HDMI inputs, and supports HDMI upscaling (at least everything out the one HDMI, no matter where the source)


3) Don't cheap-out on speakers. Everyone says pay more for the speakers than everything else combined - that's very true... You'll only end up replacing them until you hit that price point anyway.


4) Plan for acoustic panels or sound treatments from the start.


5) Buy dark carpet from the start.


6) Build a stage under your screen from the start. You'll need it when you finally throw out those cheap wall-mounted speakers and get the ones you really need/want (see #3). (Alternatively put the speakers behind the screen, but I'm not a fan of perf-screens, and I want to show off the beautiful speakers anyway).


7) Buy a good quality sub from the beginning. You'll end up doing this anyway, and the sub is one of the cheaper parts of the sound system (check out CragSub's list).


----------



## nathan_h

Here's one I think of every time I watch a widescreen (panavision) movie: If you are going for a constant height setup, choose a 2.4:1 size screen and not a 2.35:1 size, since that is what most current Hollywood widescreen movies project at. I've got a small black bar at the top of most movies, since they are 2.4:1 on my 2.35:1 screen.


----------



## helmsman




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nathan_h* /forum/post/13428150
> 
> 
> Here's one I think of every time I watch a widescreen (panavision) movie: If you are going for a constant height setup, choose a 2.4:1 size screen and not a 2.35:1 size, since that is what most current Hollywood widescreen movies project at. I've got a small black bar at the top of most movies, since they are 2.4:1 on my 2.35:1 screen.



Nathan - why don't you zoom it in a little to lose the small black bars on the top and bottom? Your screen frame or border will mask out the added spill on the sides but the picture loss in inconsequential (IMHO) and that way you still get a clean picture all the way to your frame edges. I agree with you on the 2.40:1 vs 2.35:1 screen size though.


----------



## nathan_h

Yeah I could zoom it a bit but I hate losing any image area! It's annoying but not enough to make me change the setup.


"Next time" I'll get a 2.4:1 or wider screen. I'll also probably get one that is a little smaller. I went with 10 feet wide in a 12.3' wide room. It's sexy 'cause it fills the wall. But since I'm using freestanding speakers, it severely limits my placement choices.


I might *also* consider a fabric acoustically transparent screen and leaving space for the option to use speakers behind the screen.

*But* I ended up with this screen because a fellow AVS-er was selling it. I could never have affordable a new Stewart 10 foot wide screen! So ideas about a slightly different aspect ratio, or a slightly different size, were moot. In terms of acoustical transparency, I'm much more partial to woven fabric, rather than perforation, which is something that Stewart doesn't offer.


----------



## tleavit

Budget for the acoustical panels during the build because its a pain in the arss to try to get a few hundred bucks here and there out of the wife (who doesnt want them anyways) over a period of time to finish them up


----------



## penngray

dont hammer all the gang boxes (light switches/electrical boxes) onto the frame, only to realize that when the acoustical stuff is added the gang boxes are going to be recessed one inch.


lucky, I just realized this two days ago BEFORE I installed the drywall next week. Im now adding a 4 1/2" 2x4 piece so I can move the gang boxes out 1".


----------



## nathan_h

Yeah, I did that too! It wasn't the acoustic panels but simply using 5/8" drywall and not taking that into account.


Oh and if you are putting in a riser for seating, put any outlets in that area high enough that they'll clear the riser! This actually ended up being a limiting factor for me.


----------



## tgamble

Simple way to solve the problem of the boxes being recessed is to not put the boxes in until you are almost done. Then use the remodel boxes that have the flaps that attach to the back of the sheet rock. Just leave your rough wiring sticking thru where you box will go.


----------



## dododge




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tgamble* /forum/post/13444560
> 
> 
> Simple way to solve the problem of the boxes being recessed is to no put the boxes in until you are almost done.



You can also get boxes that can be adjusted after the wall is up, such as these from Carlon:











and these from SmartBox:


----------



## nathan_h

Yeah those Carlon ones are cool. I was penny wise and pound foolish and didn't use them everywhere. In the places where I did, I saved lots of time and money.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

This might be somewhere in the thread - but mark where your studs are on the floor before drywall does up. I meant to, but never got around to it. So I had to use a studfinder while nailing up the baseboard. It's not a big deal, but it would have saved a few minutes if I had just marked them first.


----------



## Vcook




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kevin_Wadsworth* /forum/post/13457106
> 
> 
> This might be somewhere in the thread - but mark where your studs are on teh floor before drywall does up. I meant to, but never got around to it. So I had to use a studfinder while nailing up the baseboard. It's nto a big deal, but it would have saved a few minutes if I had just marked them first.



+1 This is about the only thing I'd have done differently.


----------



## streetdaddy

Markin the studs.... great idea!


----------



## LoudandClear

Something I'd do differently would be to plan out my IR reception paths better. I put my IR receiver in the front face of my stage riser which is really hard to hit from the rear row of seats. Well it would have been better to install it above the screen or just under it. Maybe have two, one high and one low.


I would have also run a IR emitter over to my light dimmer system (Lutron Spacer) because it is near the back of the room on side wall. I have to point my remote over there to control.


So I just ordered a Jensen IR Receiver/Transmitter to place in the room to get my IR problems improved.


----------



## penngray

I would pay someone to do all the insulation!! That stuff is just nasty!!


I might even pay someone to put the drywall in....17 hours this past 4 days to do it all. 5/8 sheet rock is a ***** to put on a ceiling without many guys and without that drywall hanger equipment. I should have bought that drywall hanger equipment for $180 off ebay


----------



## penngray




> Quote:
> This might be somewhere in the thread - but mark where your studs are on teh floor before drywall does up. I meant to, but never got around to it. So I had to use a studfinder while nailing up the baseboard. It's nto a big deal, but it would have saved a few minutes if I had just marked them first.



baseboard goes in before or after carpet? It always seemed like it was after but I can not remember now.


If its after, how do we see any marks anymore?


----------



## Beech63

Baseboard goes on before the carpet, If you are having someonre install your carpet they wont put it in until the baseboard is on. It has to do with the measurement of the room.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beech63* /forum/post/13519681
> 
> 
> Baseboard goes on before the carpet, If you are having someonre install your carpet they wont put it in until the baseboard is on. It has to do with the measurement of the room.



What if I'm not planning on having baseboard? Will they not install carpet? How firm is this requirement?


My current plan is to have carpet installed with no baseboard, then put in my wall treatments (flush with the top of the carpet). I would put a baseboard on the front bottom of my wall treatments. Otherwise I'd have to do some diagonal cut on the bottom of my treatment panels to miss the baseboard.


I don't want to have carpet waiting for my wall treatments to be done.


----------



## BritInVA




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Beech63* /forum/post/13519681
> 
> 
> Baseboard goes on before the carpet, If you are having someonre install your carpet they wont put it in until the baseboard is on. It has to do with the measurement of the room.



I had no issues with carpet before baseboard. You just need to ensure they put carpet gripper at least 1" away so baseboard does not trap the carpet on the gripper.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

Yep. They prefer the baseboard to be in first so they can put the tack strip next to the baseboard and then tuck the carpet under. If it's not there they have to guess a bit. But it shoudln't be a big deal for a decent installer.


----------



## Tariq745

my house was build in 2003 and I could get my basement 1 foot deeper for $1000 it is 9feet now. I think I should have spend that $1000 but I was laid off that time Dam economy!


----------



## Imatk

Wow I just read through this entire thread... AWESOME.


Thank you so much guys for all your input.


I'm slowly starting to outfit my room and this stuff is worth its weight in gold.


I was about to start building my riser and would have NEVER thought about the outlets.


My home and room is already built, so I'm sort of working with what I have which is good already. 19' x 15' and I'm figuring on a 12" riser, but man I would have built that sucker and then been like, "Ummm now how do I plug stuff in?"


DOH!


Thanks guys


----------



## carboranadum

What I'd do differently...


* Get Dennis or Bryan involved with the design earlier. Have to do some rework to fix some issues.


* Have drywall delivered. We rented the truck and schlepped it home as needed.


* Farm out the drywall finishing. I'm currently stuck in the muck and can't quite see the end.


* Spend less money on HT books. Everything that I need to know if buried in this forum.


CJ


----------



## two-rocks

It has been said before, but I need to mention it again as I am just getting to the equipment rack.


RUN ENOUGH CABLE! The 1st couple of turns to clean things up have caused a few runs to come up short. #[email protected]%@ it.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *two-rocks* /forum/post/13571874
> 
> 
> It has been said before, but I need to mention it again as I am just getting to the equipment rack.
> 
> 
> RUN ENOUGH CABLE! The 1st couple of turns to clean things up have caused a few runs to come up short. #[email protected]%@ it.



Yeah... I just spend a few hours running cable under my new house yesterday. Get that? NEW house. Wadda dope! Can't believe I had open walls and didn't think of this...


----------



## Heanon

My basement rec room/theater is almost complete, just waiting on some furniture, window treatment, area rugs and decor.


I didn't leave enough room between my two rows of seats. I planned for the recline to fit, snugly, not allowing for the feet and legs that extend past the end. My front row of seats are now a couple of feet closer then planned. I likely would have ended up at the same place, but it was forced on me rather than choice.


----------



## moguy

I love my HT, but i wish I could redo half of it.


Here's a few of my many mistakes.


Not splitting up all my lighting in zone's away from the screen. I've got 4 lighting zones in my HT and 3 of them spill light on the screen. I set them up based on aesthetics, not thinking functionality.


Not wiring my riser. Big mistake.


Not moving some of my HVAC. I took some bad advice that it couldn't be done, and then found out later, after my ceilings were up, that it could have.


Make sure no ceiling vents blow air into the path of the projector. It took me a while to figure out why my part of my image had a weird haze to it sometimes. I ended up closing the vent, but I could use the heat.


I should have done a better job insulating the floor. It get's pretty cold down there come winter.


Plan for a more flexible projector placement. When I upgraded to my w10000 from my AE500, I had to move the projector mount 3 feet back (away from my cables and power outlet)


----------



## JustMike

What do you wish you would have wired your riser for?


----------



## clspruiell

Looking back, I would have bought/rented the best spray painter money can buy. I sprayed my ceiling black with a Lowes $300 machine.. it was the messiest and the most difficult thing i think ive ever done. spraying that much paint up + gravity gets annoying when youre constantly covering your eyes. and glasses get too much paint on them to continually wipe off. other than that, i would have made my drywalls thicker.


----------



## clspruiell

when texturing a brick wall, just dig in with your hands. its way too much work to put your textrure on a spackle and spread it.


----------



## Another_Dude

I am proud to put my first post in this thread.


My wife and I will be buying a new home this summer and a HT space is very important to me. I don't think our budget will allow for an unfinished basement that can be set up to spec, so we'll have to start with what someone else thought was a good idea and work from there.


Regardless, this thread alone has already saved me hundreds if not thousands of dollars.


----------



## ATLPilot

I'm in the middle of a HT build and have gotten some great tips from this thread.


So far, it's just me, myself, and I. I'm ready to pull wire and insulate. The floating floor and riser should be complete tomorrow--maybe.










The only part I'm still puzzling over is HVAC. The rest is just work--and research.


----------



## carboranadum




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *carboranadum* /forum/post/13564708
> 
> 
> What I'd do differently...
> 
> 
> * Get Dennis or Bryan involved with the design earlier. Have to do some rework to fix some issues.
> 
> 
> * Have drywall delivered. We rented the truck and schlepped it home as needed.
> 
> 
> * Farm out the drywall finishing. I'm currently stuck in the muck and can't quite see the end.
> 
> 
> * Spend less money on HT books. Everything that I need to know if buried in this forum.
> 
> 
> CJ




OK, so I'm going to update my list based on recent experience.


* Have drywall delivered +1. I ordered 38 sheets of 54" x 12' of 5/8" on Friday. Paid $1.50 per sheet for it to be hauled around to the basement. Best money spent! That was so easy! The rock was $0.03 per SF more expensive than 4x8s at HD or Lowe's, but they delivered to the house for free...something that the big boxes won't do.


There's no way my wife and I could have unloaded and stacked the drywall as the three guys that delivered it did.


Here's a photo of the boom truck that helped immensely:










* Also, the metal furring strips (AKA HAT channel) that I looked at a HD was 25 gauge and sold for $5.99 for a 10' section. The 20 gauge stuff that the drywall specialty shop had was only $0.38 a foot (37% cheaper). I bought 12 foot lengths to make it easier and they would have delivered it for free! The 20 gauge is so much stiffer than the 25 gauge stuff...but it's also harder to perforate with screws.


* Use Grabber brand screws to attach the drywall to the furring strips. I took BigMouthInDC's advise, and picked up a box. I also tried the Hold-Tite brand that I got from the big boxes. The Hold-Tite worked fine for wood in the rest of the basement, but I broke heads off the few that I tried.


* The drywall specialty store that I found also had USG acoustical caulk in 29oz tubes for a mere $4.


* Try out your local drywall specialty store before you buy. You may be surprised by what you find!


CJ


----------



## Driving_Hamster

Nice looking grass you got there! I second checking with drywall suppliers. They were the only ones I could find that actually knew what 1/4" high flex drywall was, let alone carry it.


Narrowly avoided adding something to this list. I was about to put the door trim moldings on my basement doors when something told me to make sure that the door knobs work ok before I do that. This way I can still play with the shims if I needed to. Good thing I did this because one door frame was a hair too far out and the latch didn't catch the strike plate. Had I already applied the trim I would of had to tear it back off and fix this. My $0.02 for today.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth

Driving Hamsters post about doors reminded me of something. I used the fully mortised door sweeps on the door for the theater and the two doors on the equipment closet. When routing out the mortise, I made the depth exactly equal to the depth of the sweeps, in spite of a voice in my head telling me it wouldn't hurt to make them deeper.


Well, once the carpet was installed, I found the doors didn't clear the carpet and I had to take them off and cut 1/4" off the bottom of the doors. Which meant re-mortising them an extra 1/4". I would have saved a fair bit of time just making them deepre originally.


----------



## Cnd Joe

Not sure if you guys down south have this stuff yet, but here in Canada we have special "Acustic" drywall that is 5/8ths thick and has the sound absorbtion equal to that of 7 layers of 1/2 drywall. $150 bucks a 4x8 sheet but hey.. if you really want to get something quiet


----------



## penngray




> Quote:
> but here in Canada we have special "Acustic" drywall that is 5/8ths thick and has the sound absorbtion equal to that of 7 layers of 1/2 drywall. $150 bucks a 4x8 sheet but hey.. if you really want to get something quiet



Sounds similar to http://www.quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html 


what is the true STC on it though, I have read that 1/2 drywall + GG + 1/2 drywall is still the best solution and the cheapets.


----------



## bethomas




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cnd Joe* /forum/post/13877649
> 
> 
> Not sure if you guys down south have this stuff yet, but here in Canada we have special "Acustic" drywall that is 5/8ths thick and has the sound absorbtion equal to that of 7 layers of 1/2 drywall. $150 bucks a 4x8 sheet but hey.. if you really want to get something quiet




hey, i saw that on a Holmes on Homes episode this weekend. cool stuff.


----------



## bethomas

nevermind. i think i just quoted and responded to myself. 14 hours of working in the basement today is getting to me


----------



## spyd4r

2 words.


drop ceiling.


----------



## DMF




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clspruiell* /forum/post/13712653
> 
> 
> Looking back, I would have bought/rented the best spray painter money can buy.



Heck with any sprayer. For a ceiling a roller on a pole is dead easy and *way* cleaner than a sprayer.


----------



## Factor V




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *spyd4r* /forum/post/13987564
> 
> 
> 2 words.
> 
> 
> drop ceiling.



Are you saying you wish you would have done a drop ceiling?


----------



## Raymond Leggs












Not listen to my mom complain about me having too many wires in my room.










That's not MY setup but that's similar to what it looks like.


----------



## Factor V

Rockem Sockem Robots!!


----------



## spyd4r




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Factor V* /forum/post/14096197
> 
> 
> Are you saying you wish you would have done a drop ceiling?




Yes.. =)


----------



## Forseti

still reading through this thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned before:


I'd buy a nail gun


I'd watch a drywall pro do a ceiling before I attempted it


I'd read drywallschool.com sooner


I'd not be intimidated by HVAC (it's pretty easy)


I'd spend more time planning


I'd get more active on AVS earlier










One thing I'd do over again is to buy a miter (drop) saw at the beginning of the project


----------



## agnathra

this just shows how new i was to all of this, but absolutely make sure all your framing is 16" apart. when you find a water problem and have to rip everything out, don't put it back "close enough", make sure it's exactly on 16's. when you have an irregular wall where you can do it all 16.5" apart and make it even, do it on 16's and use the extra studs.


basically, i knew sheet rock and everything else would be easier if it was all on 16's, but i had no idea how much trouble it saved all the way through trim work when it all fits together as it's supposed to. by far the worst short cut/rookie mistake i made.
























also, get yourself a combo pack with a pancake compressor, framing gun, and finish nail gun, and a miter saw.


and don't be afraid to spend a few extra bucks to upgrade from, say, B&D or skill to dewalt. definitely worth it in the long run when you're trying to finish up the project with a tool that's barely still working.


and like others are saying, don't be intimidated...anyone can do this stuff. i started my complete basement finishing project with dedicated theater with only a hammer and a $15 b&d corded drill (and that's all i knew how to use...never even used a power saw before). the info in this forum is pretty amazing. you probably won't mistake my work for a professional's, but i never would have had the 10's of thousands of dollars to hire this out. instead, i took my time studying this site and designing exactly what i wanted, bought materials as i needed them, and learned as i went. finishing the sheet rock was probably the worst. definitely hire someone for that if you can.


----------



## erkq

So far, so good with a dedicated 16' wide by 22' deep theater withsn equipment room. I put LOTS of power in the equipment room. Even if you're not a gamer, put power inside the theater too. I though I was being so smart not to have plugs in the theater. What the heck do I need with plugs when I'm watching a movie? Well, the first time you have to run an extension cord to power you callibration computer you'll feel like a dolt!


----------



## Forseti




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *agnathra* /forum/post/14130511
> 
> 
> also, get yourself a combo pack with a pancake compressor, framing gun, and finish nail gun, and a miter saw.
> 
> 
> and don't be afraid to spend a few extra bucks to upgrade from, say, B&D or skill to dewalt. definitely worth it in the long run when you're trying to finish up the project with a tool that's barely still working.



AMEN TO BOTH.


I personally love dewalt tools and have never had one fail on me.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Forseti* /forum/post/14132576
> 
> 
> AMEN TO BOTH.
> 
> 
> I personally love dewalt tools and have never had one fail on me.



+1 to both. Same. Lots of yellow in my workshop.


----------



## Rookie Boy

We bought new furniture for the house before the theater was constructed. I bought the Quest sectional from lazyboy and did not realize it was 15' long. Room was 13.5' wide. So I had to position the room the wrong way for accoustics so I could fit the couch.


Moral: Plan the room then buy the furniture!


----------



## hemster




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *helmsman* /forum/post/13429213
> 
> 
> Nathan - why don't you zoom it in a little to lose the small black bars on the top and bottom? Your screen frame or border will mask out the added spill on the sides but the picture loss in inconsequential (IMHO) and that way you still get a clean picture all the way to your frame edges. I agree with you on the 2.40:1 vs 2.35:1 screen size though.



I'm about to order my screen but am confused about 2.35 or 2.40. Scouring the forum I learned that the correct ratio is 2.36. Here's the basis:


16:9 is 1.78 (16/9 = 1.7777777)


Expanding the image by a third gives 2.36 (1.76 + 33%).


Not to split hairs but should I get a 2.35 or a 2.40 screen?







I really don't want to deal with bars at the top/bottom and don't want to zoom unnecessarily to avoid the bars.


Thanks,

~hemster


----------



## AbMagFab

Pretty sure you want 2.4, as all BD is 2.4, but ask in something like the Stewart thread.


----------



## nathan_h

Definitely 2.40. I have a 2.35:1 screen and almost always end up with a small black bar on DVDs and Blu-ray discs of widescreen movies since most are really 2.40:1.


----------



## imarkup

To do differently ... I would have framed my front "wall" to accomodate the center channel better. I have a "fake" wall for the screen, with LCR behind the GOM cloth. I framed the wall w/ 2x2's ... but I used a 2x2 right in the middle of the wall where the center channel should be. So I had to put the center channel off center and angled










Next time I would frame the wall to accomodate placement of the hidden center channel.


----------



## Papajin




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *imarkup* /forum/post/14403412
> 
> 
> To do differently ... I would have framed my front "wall" to accomodate the center channel better. I have a "fake" wall for the screen, with LCR behind the GOM cloth. I framed the wall w/ 2x2's ... but I used a 2x2 right in the middle of the wall where the center channel should be. So I had to put the center channel off center and angled



Wouldn't that be something you could fix moderately easily? Maybe just move 2 supports to either side of where the center would sit?


----------



## imarkup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Papajin* /forum/post/14404150
> 
> 
> Wouldn't that be something you could fix moderately easily? Maybe just move 2 supports to either side of where the center would sit?



I am considering that. But I got a little over-zealous with the staple gun when I stapled the GOM fabric to the 2x2's. I am just a little concerned about ripping the fabric if I try to take our the staples. And since I have a "seam" in the middle of the wall (this is where the 2 pieces of GOM come together), I am not really sure what to do with the seam.


I think the verticle "seam" in the dead-center of the front wall is the basis of my whole mistake. What do others do about the seams? Do you use 2 seams, with 3 verticle GOM strips?


----------



## MysticalJet

build from scratch ...


----------



## bmwracer3

Here are some of the lost posts...


> Quote:
> from bmwracer3:
> 
> Wish i would have put in isolation clips, at least in the ceiling and made sure the walls were decoupled from the ceiling too.
> 
> Wish i would have built my basement with 9' walls (that's a huge one)
> 
> wish i would have understood/thought through how to put the outlets & speakers in pillars instead of cutting holes in my aquarium
> 
> 
> that all being said, sound isolation in my theater is pretty dang good, so the only real regret is the 9' wall option.
> 
> __________________
> 
> ~chris





> Quote:
> from damnsam77
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> originally posted by bmwracer3
> 
> wish i would have built my basement with 9' walls (that's a huge one)..............so the only real regret is the 9' wall option.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well thats a really big "wish i would have done" item.....many people move into existing preowned homes and the ones that move into a new construction home never think about the 9 foot ceilings unless its brought up by the home builder sales person. And it costs a ton of money, on a 1500 sqft basement, it will cost you more than 15,000 to add that as an option prior to construction. And even then, then end up really screwing you by running waste pipes and hvac ductwork across your joists taking another foot off your ceiling clearance, so you really end up with 8 foot ceilings with soffits....unless the designated home theater room does not have any ceiling obstructions (no pipes, air ducts..etc) or if the builders are nice enough to run their waste pipes and ducts on the sides and corners rather than in the middle of your friggin room!!
> 
> 
> Can you tell i am angry and bitter about this whole thing? Yes because i had to build a giant soffit in the center of my ome theater that dropped by ceiling height to 7ft, the giant 8ft by 15ft soffit covers all my immovable hvac and waste pipes!!! So if i ever were to move into a brand new home, i will be sure to shadow these contractors on a regular basis to make sure they dont take any "shortcuts" when building out the basement,
Click to expand...




> Quote:
> bmwracer3 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> originally posted by damnsam77
> 
> well that's a really big "wish i would have done" item.....many people move into existing preowned homes and the ones that move into a new construction home never think about the 9 foot ceilings unless its brought up by the home builder sales person. And it costs a ton of money, on a 1500 sq ft basement, it will cost you more than 15,000 to add that as an option prior to construction. And even then, then end up really screwing you by running waste pipes and hvac duct work across your joists taking another foot off your ceiling clearance, so you really end up with 8 foot ceilings with soffits....unless the designated home theater room does not have any ceiling obstructions (no pipes, air ducts..etc) or if the builders are nice enough to run their waste pipes and ducts on the sides and corners rather than in the middle of your friggin room!!
> 
> 
> Can you tell i am angry and bitter about this whole thing? Yes because i had to build a giant soffit in the center of my home theater that dropped by ceiling height to 7ft, the giant 8ft by 15ft soffit covers all my immovable hvac and waste pipes!!! So if i ever were to move into a brand new home, i will be sure to shadow these contractors on a regular basis to make sure they don't take any "shortcuts" when building out the basement,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oi! I guess you are a little upset. When i built my house (10/04-04/05) they only wanted $4300 for the 9' option, and that's on a 1500 sq ft basement too. There are two steel beams that run lengthwise in my house, and they put all the hvac between those (about 12'). I have a truss system for the joists, so all the gas/electrical/plumbing is run up in the joist space so finishing the ceiling was pretty easy. I'm very thankful for that hearing how much some of the people on here have to fight things.
Click to expand...




> Quote:
> dennis erskine wrote:
> 
> If you're going to have 9' basement (or do have) and have a space you want allocated for a home theater, you must tell them that you want 9' clear. Worst case, you want 9' clear but will allow 8' clear within 12" of a wall or partition. Make that a condition of your contract.
> 
> 
> Ending up with 7' is unacceptable ... What was it going to be...6' normally? That's nuts.





> Quote:
> damnsam77 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> originally posted by dennis erskine
> 
> if you're going to have 9' basement (or do have) and have a space you want allocated for a home theater, you must tell them that you want 9' clear. Worst case, you want 9' clear but will allow 8' clear within 12" of a wall or partition. Make that a condition of your contract.
> 
> 
> Ending up with 7' is unacceptable ... What was it going to be...6' normally? That's nuts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well i didnt have a choice with my basement, the house was built in 2003 and we bought it when we moved to denver last summer. At the time, i had zero knowledge about room construction, and wasnt remotely thinking about doing a theater anytime soon. But i do agree, contractors and home builders try their best to screw you out of finishing your basement by doing everything possible to make their job easier and faster and your life miserable. They go through building these houses so quickly that you seldome get a perfectly clear basement ceiling. It would be half decent if they atleast go the extra mile to ensure all duct and pipe runs go along side the walls within a 12" clearance where you can simply soffit around. Soffits always looks good in a home theater anyways.
> 
> 
> But trust me, next brand new home i buy, or preowned home, i will make sure to take my tape measure and atleast guarantee an 8ft ceiling height all around the basement perimeter.
Click to expand...


----------



## yaj123

I must have lucked out. In my 2,100 sqft basement the builder only charged me $1,200 to make it 9ft deep. How they did it was dig a regular depth basement then build up around the sill about 12" with wood framing. So my house looks a little taller since the basement starts about 2ft above ground. Saved me a TON of money.


----------



## usualsuspects

My 9' ceilings in the 1200 sqft basement cost me $4k - worth every penny. There seems to be a huge variance in the cost of a higher ceiling on lower levels. If I were building again I would look into open web joist systems for the floors - no bulkheads and easy to run mechanicals and fish wires through later.


----------



## eugovector




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yaj123* /forum/post/14457220
> 
> 
> I must have lucked out. In my 2,100 sqft basement the builder only charged me $1,200 to make it 9ft deep. How they did it was dig a regular depth basement then build up around the sill about 12" with wood framing. So my house looks a little taller since the basement starts about 2ft above ground. Saved me a TON of money.



Definitely money well spent, even at twice the price.


----------



## frogfather

Seating... I went with the Berkline 45004 quad in a curve configuration. I love the curve for the front row, but if I were to do it all again, I'd go with a straight quad in the rear.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post14575760


----------



## mpts

Hi. I learned a lot on AVS and want to offer my tidbit back on what I'd do differently next time: Make sure that a rear-mounted projector is high enough so that players standing in the room playing a Nintendo Wii will not be in the path of the projector's image! A rear shelf-mounted PJ that assumes all members of the audience is sitting down may not work. I was lucky in that the projector is high enough and close enough that Wii players don't interfere with the projector. I only realized this near the end of construction. Hope this helps, Peter


----------



## MaxBench

1. Put in my own A/C returns. After seeing what the contractor did for $200, I could have done in the same time for $30. I did get a really nice vent cover though.

2. Don't bother running 5-RCA component cable to the projector. What would I use the 2 audio RCAs for anyways? My A/V buddy had a good laugh at my expense after pointing that out. He's right, of course. Cheaper and smaller in the smurf tube to boot.


----------



## Kevin_Wadsworth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mpts* /forum/post/14673756
> 
> 
> Hi. I learned a lot on AVS and want to offer my tidbit back on what I'd do differently next time: Make sure that a rear-mounted projector is high enough so that players standing in the room playing a Nintendo Wii will not be in the path of the projector's image! A rear shelf-mounted PJ that assumes all members of the audience is sitting down may not work. I was lucky in that the projector is high enough and close enough that Wii players don't interfere with the projector. I only realized this near the end of construction. Hope this helps, Peter



Good point! When I play High Velocity Bowling on the PS3, I ahve to stand a bit off to the side. Since bowling is less than 1% of the use of my HT, it's not a big deal to me, but if you are an avid Wii'er, it could be.


----------



## damnsam77

Another thing I would do differently next time, is use "Adjustable" boxes for all my loutlet boxes including dual outlets, sconces, low voltage boxes (speakers). If you are planning to do more than one single layer of 1/2" drywall (whether its 5/8" DD with GG and/or acoustic treatment with 1" or 2" furring strips), I would highly recommend planning ahead of time by installing adjustable boxes that can normally come out up to 1.75" after Drywall is up.


If you are like me, and its too late for you and you already have the standard boxes installed, just get 1" or 1.5" mudrings to extend the box out. Its just extra work you wouldnt need to do if you plan things right from the get go.


----------



## tleavit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mpts* /forum/post/14673756
> 
> 
> Hi. I learned a lot on AVS and want to offer my tidbit back on what I'd do differently next time: Make sure that a rear-mounted projector is high enough so that players standing in the room playing a Nintendo Wii will not be in the path of the projector's image! A rear shelf-mounted PJ that assumes all members of the audience is sitting down may not work. I was lucky in that the projector is high enough and close enough that Wii players don't interfere with the projector. I only realized this near the end of construction. Hope this helps, Peter



I would have the same problem with my celing mounted projector even though its 15' back along with the front chairs that are 13'. Anyone standing in front of the front chairs would be in the path of the image.


----------



## zmisst

There are a number of little things I'd do differently (extra money to turn off HT lights from the universal remote), but the biggest mistake I made was wasting my time and money by engaging Rives Audio. I ended up not using anything from their plan -- Bryan Pape gave me much more useful and more accurate information when I bought materials from him at sensiblesoundsolutions.com


More info on Rives at: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1054758


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *zmisst* /forum/post/14725907
> 
> 
> (extra money to turn off HT lights from the universal remote)



It's not that much money to do this with Insteon. Their IR-Linc has an IR receiver that a universal remote can send commands to. So... roughly $100 for the IR-Linc and $50 for each set of lights you want to control.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/14725945
> 
> 
> It's not that much money to do this with Insteon. Their IR-Linc has an IR receiver that a universal remote can send commands to. So... roughly $100 for the IR-Linc and $50 for each set of lights you want to control.



Except Insteon is horribly unreliable (either in X10 mode or wireless mode, although X10 mode is more reliable, but not really the point).


You'd think someone would invent a retrofit-lighting system that actually worked!


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14731887
> 
> 
> Except Insteon is horribly unreliable (either in X10 mode or wireless mode, although X10 mode is more reliable, but not really the point).
> 
> 
> You'd think someone would invent a retrofit-lighting system that actually worked!



Boy, that's not my experience at all. I even use Insteon to turn on 3 amps in remote locations. Turns them on and off with all the rest of the equipment from the universal remote.


X10 mode is very unreliable. I used X10's for years and Insteaon is a whole different level. I've never had it not work. Don't use the X10 compatible mode. You throw away all the Insteon 2 way protocols that make it reliable.


----------



## JustMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14731887
> 
> 
> You'd think someone would invent a retrofit-lighting system that actually worked!



My Control4 system has worked pretty well since I put it in 2.5 years ago. I had a dimmer fail and a problem with a device driver for my video matrix switch was causing unexplained crashes for awhile, but otherwise I give it a thumbs-up.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike* /forum/post/14732532
> 
> 
> My Control4 system has worked pretty well since I put it in 2.5 years ago. I had a dimmer fail and a problem with a device driver for my video matrix switch was causing unexplained crashes for awhile, but otherwise I give it a thumbs-up.



Doesn't each switch cost ~$200? I guess I should have said "reliable, affordable retro-fit"


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/14732255
> 
> 
> Boy, that's not my experience at all. I even use Insteon to turn on 3 amps in remote locations. Turns them on and off with all the rest of the equipment from the universal remote.
> 
> 
> X10 mode is very unreliable. I used X10's for years and Insteaon is a whole different level. I've never had it not work. Don't use the X10 compatible mode. You throw away all the Insteon 2 way protocols that make it reliable.



I bought some Insteon for my HT. It's a pretty small room. I put in one switch, one outlet, and wanted the switch to control the outlet. It was reliable about 20% of the time. So I added one of those repeaters in the room. Did nothing (except use up an outlet). The little blue lights would go on and off randomly, but the switch would rarely trigger the outlet. If I moved the outlet to right under the switch, it would work better. One of the plug-in modules also just died after like 2 weeks for no apparent reason.


The switches are on one circuit, the outlets on another, if that matters (it does with X10, not sure about Insteon).


Switched to X10 mode, which I'd had for years and was pretty unreliable as well (so I ripped all the X10 stuff out), but now it's better than 20% (more like 60-75%).


IMO, and in my experience, Insteon is total junk. Thankfully it supports X10 mode so I can at least get some use out of the equipment.


I can't be the only one having this kind of bad experience with Insteon, can I?


At a minimum it's very inconsistent across installations, which isn't too attractive.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14735371
> 
> 
> I can't be the only one having this kind of bad experience with Insteon, can I?



That's too bad, because it is a great, 100% reliable, relatively cheap solution for me. When I say 100%, I mean I've never had it not work. I haunted the "A/V Control & Automation -> Home Automation" section for months before I bought and never saw problems like yours. They have an Insteon thread that seems to live on the first page... pretty active.


If you're interested in seeing what the problem is you could post there?


I've never run with less that 2 repeaters. They say that's the minimum you should use and that's what their started kits have. It seems their communication infrastructure relies on 2, I have no idea why. So, yes, for one or two controlled devices it may seem like overkill.


----------



## JustMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14735343
> 
> 
> Doesn't each switch cost ~$200? I guess I should have said "reliable, affordable retro-fit"



Well, mine were actually around $130 when I had them installed two years ago, which was worth it to me after years of unreliable X-10.


Recently, a friend has told me that he's having very good success with UBP dimmers from Simply Automated, but at this point I'm pretty much committed to C4.


----------



## bigbadbob

You guys are saving me a LOT of headaches.

Thanks


----------



## dthibode

This thread is priceless. I'm doing my basement HT right now and I've already implemented a ton of these suggestions! Thanks!


----------



## AbMagFab

Sort of related - anyone using an on-demand water heater? Specifically a gas-powered one?


It's getting time to replace my water heater, so I'm interested in one of these. Much less space, should be much more efficient, and never run out of hot water. We have 3 1/2 baths, but really only two are ever active.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14850912
> 
> 
> Sort of related - anyone using an on-demand water heater? Specifically a gas-powered one?
> 
> 
> It's getting time to replace my water heater, so I'm interested in one of these. Much less space, should be much more efficient, and never run out of hot water. We have 3 1/2 baths, but really only two are ever active.



I really wanted to do this. I designed my new house for 2. My contractor talked me out of them. She marched me around to other houses she had build where the client insisted on then to hear of problems from the horse's mouth. The most common problem seems to be reliable operation with low flows, like when you're washing your hands. I don't understand... they're in such common use in Europe. Surely this has been figured out. Why can't WE get these?


You also need big gas supply and big venting. The ones I designed around were 200k BTU and the required stainless steel ducting alone cost $800!


So I put in 2 50 gal heaters for different wings of the house. I can say, I never run out!


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/14851120
> 
> 
> I really wanted to do this. I designed my new house for 2. My contractor talked me out of them. She marched me around to other houses she had build where the client insisted on then to hear of problems from the horse's mouth. The most common problem seems to be reliable operation with low flows, like when you're washing your hands. I don't understand... they're in such common use in Europe. Surely this has been figured out. Why can't WE get these?
> 
> 
> You also need big gas supply and big venting. The ones I designed around were 200k BTU and the required stainless steel ducting alone cost $800!
> 
> 
> So I put in 2 50 gal heaters for different wings of the house. I can say, I never run out!



I currently have a 75 gal one, but I'd like to replace it with a tankless one.


How long ago did you do the walkaround? And what vendor were they using?


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/14851147
> 
> 
> I currently have a 75 gal one, but I'd like to replace it with a tankless one.
> 
> 
> How long ago did you do the walkaround? And what vendor were they using?



It was about a year. I saw Bosch and Rinnai. It also takes up to twice as long to GET hot water in the first place since the heat exchanger needs to be warmed up too. They're rated at .75 gal/min minimum flow, so if you want a trickle you're out of luck. They just won't fire at a low flow.


My contractor just go too many call-backs with them . She never gets call-backs with conventional heaters. She just lost patience with them.


----------



## mlyday

We put a Rinnai model in when we built our house about 5 years ago. I wont have another house without one. NO more cold showers. You dont have to worry about doing laundry or washing dishes before you shower. There is a few second delay from the time you turn on the water til its hot, but really only 3-4 seconds. Most have a remote module you can add that can be placed in a upstairs bathroom or elsewhere that allow you to set a max temp. This allow you to set the temp from that location if you were giving a young child a bath so that if they accidentally turn the water on they wond get burned. The tankless water heaters are a must if you have a large jet tub in your bathroom.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlyday* /forum/post/14854901
> 
> 
> We put a Rinnai model in when we built our house about 5 years ago. I wont have another house without one. NO more cold showers. You dont have to worry about doing laundry or washing dishes before you shower. There is a few second delay from the time you turn on the water til its hot, but really only 3-4 seconds. Most have a remote module you can add that can be placed in a upstairs bathroom or elsewhere that allow you to set a max temp. This allow you to set the temp from that location if you were giving a young child a bath so that if they accidentally turn the water on they wond get burned. The tankless water heaters are a must if you have a large jet tub in your bathroom.



Good to hear from a happy user! What about low flow... like washing hands under what amounts to a small trickle of hot, because it has to be combined with cold?


----------



## mlyday

I dont really notice any difference. Besides a 3 second waiting period before you get hot water. We have 5 people in our house, and we can take showers one right after the other and never run out of hot water. Its great.

We can be doing two things at a time like doing laundry and taking a show or 2 showers going and we have plenty of hot water. They are desiged so if its not enough you can run two in paralell.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mlyday* /forum/post/14868786
> 
> 
> I dont really notice any difference. Besides a 3 second waiting period before you get hot water. We have 5 people in our house, and we can take showers one right after the other and never run out of hot water. Its great.
> 
> We can be doing two things at a time like doing laundry and taking a show or 2 showers going and we have plenty of hot water. They are desiged so if its not enough you can run two in paralell.



So washing hands gets hot water? Do you know what model number you have?


----------



## budk

this discussion seems to be completely off topic. Can't you guys do this through PM's or email.


JMHO


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *budk* /forum/post/14869220
> 
> 
> this discussion seems to be completely off topic. Can't you guys do this through PM's or email.
> 
> 
> JMHO



"seems"?, "SEEMS"? How about "IS"?







Hot water and home theater... sorry about that.


----------



## mlyday

Sorry Guys one last reply. It is no different that a regular hot water heater in that aspect. Yes you get hot water washing your hands.


----------



## antwon412

i would have installed my power outlet and cableing plate for HDMI and RCA's more directly above the projhector so the cords went straight up into the ceiling instead of back a foot and a half.


but who cares.....i spend my time staring at a big screen instead of a couple cables on the ceiling!


----------



## BritInVA

While this was not something I did in my HT (I seemed to get it right in there) I did not really think thru the recepticle position for the rope light in the crown moulding......I should have located outlet in a position where it would not be seen from a primary viewing angle.


----------



## rec head

Wow thanks for all the info. I just read the thread. I have a ton of browser tabs open for all the links I want to check out. I plan on moving in the next couple months and although I have a ton of more important work to do on the new place I'm already trying to plan the HT. Now that I've done this thread what should I be reading next?


Thanks


----------



## rec head

With regards to hanging doors: I have actually hung a door on the support side and framed the top and opposite side around the door to get an absolutely perfect fit. Worked great.


----------



## jamis

1. I would have made a 10" riser instead of 8". It worked, but the extra 2 inches on height would have been nice for seeing over the front row.


2. More lights. I used 4" can lights and dark colors and a few more would have been good. A star ceiling would have been nice too.


3. A small dishwasher for the kitchenette/wet bar.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jamis* /forum/post/15065350
> 
> 
> 1. I would have made a 10" riser instead of 8". It worked, but the extra 2 inches on height would have been nice for seeing over the front row.
> 
> 
> 2. More lights. I used 4" can lights and dark colors and a few more would have been good. A star ceiling would have been nice too.
> 
> 
> 3. A small dishwasher for the kitchenette/wet bar.



1. Ageed. I went with 15" and it worked great.

2. I have a total of 20 down facing 28 watt halogens, 5 each in 4 rows of wire-track lighting. On a dimmer it works great. Nice to bring up gently during closing credits. Nice soft even glow all over.

3. I lived in a trailer when I was building my house. It had a great little D/W. I wonder if R/V D/W's can be adapted. It cleaned really well and it was quiet.


----------



## queendvd2

1. Research, research, research and then do your build (instead of researching while you build). Know EXACTLY what you want so that you don't have to retrofit anything after the fact. For example, I discovered CIH at the tail-end of my build and decided that I really wanted it. Now I have to cut into the ceiling, throw away an already built proscenium and relocate the projector.


2. If on the fence of whether to do a front row or second row projector location run a conduit and electrical to BOTH locations (assuming a drywall ceiling-obviously with a drop there's much more flexibility), saving yourself potential headaches and enabling future projector swaps with different throws.


----------



## dd564

I would have made more wire runs.


When laying out my basement and theater, I was running wire for what seemed to be forever. Now that we're close to done, I'm thinking... why didn't I put an extra Cat5 over there? (In a non-theater room, mainly for a remote control receiving sensor). In the home theater, I did think this through.


----------



## BoomBoomRoom

I did one tv room in our old condo, and I'm starting on the new room, and one thing I always have is a water spray bottle with a nice even mist. When cleaning up, spray the floor first and dirty area first with 5 or 6 squeezes (things like cement dust, saw dust, drywall dirt, everything). This reduces the air born dust and makes cleanup a lot easier (the dirt will make small balls when sweeping), and makes sure your dust doesn't float in the rest of the house / laundry / wife's lungs










Thanks for the thread guys - still learning so much!


----------



## pmeyer

(cross posted from my build thread, but I figured it might do more good here)


One 'pearl of wisdom' I've learned during this:


Never, ever, take a break at the end of a stage of the project until you have planned out the next stage. When you finish up one stage, *force* yourself to plan the next stage, making the hard decisions, maybe buy the supplies. *Then* take your break.


Several times I stalled for three months or more because I finished up a stage and stopped. After a well deserved week or two off, I was ready to start up again. However, to start, I had to plan out the next step, which involved hard decisions (double drywall the ceiling or not? Shift that pillar, or leave it?). These were hard decisions, and that made it a very high 'potential energy' barrier to get over before I could start again. I literally stalled for months procrastinating some of those decisions.


Only take a long break when the first task you'll do after the break is *fun*


----------



## MountainAsh

I am not done yet...but there are many things I learned along the way:


1) Don't under estimate the need for sound absorption. I figured it was just me, my wife and the dog and I was not really worried about keeping the sound in the theater. Even still, I did my own form of decoupling the ceiling, left air space, and stuffed the joists with R-19 and I can still hear footfalls on the kitchen tile above. I am sure that I am getting sound bleeding in from other rooms and it will be better when all is closed up.


2) Ceiling height - When I had my house built in 2000, we paid for an extra course of block. Our height started out at 8'6" but I loose a foot for HVAC trucks over 5' of the theater. Since so much acoustics is based on ceiling height, you need all you can get. I am happy with my solution and it does not feel too low...but I would have loved to add another extra course of block if possible. I do not think I would have paid $10,000 for it as with poured.


3) Keep the work area clean. I have wasted soo much time looking for tools that I know I have burried somewhere. Also, things never look complete because of the mess and it takes a long time when you finally do clean.


Those are just a few...

Dave


----------



## MountainAsh

oh yeah...I almost forgot the most important thing not to do:


Don't give anyone a date of completion! My friends hammer me without mercy over missed dates...


Dave


----------



## Logic_BomB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MysticalJet* /forum/post/14418590
> 
> 
> build from scratch ...



I really, really wish I could have done this. I moved into a house with a finished basement. It feels less like building a theater and more like filling up and working around the available space. No money to redo any of it either. Would have been nice to be easily able to plan in-wall and in-ceiling wiring rather than snaking it around the inside of the room.


----------



## pmeyer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MountainAsh* /forum/post/15156973
> 
> 
> oh yeah...I almost forgot the most important thing not to do:
> 
> 
> Don't give anyone a date of completion! My friends hammer me without mercy over missed dates...
> 
> 
> Dave



I gave a completion date: I'll be done in time for the Superbowl. Just didn't mention which one. (I'll likely make it by this one, though...)


----------



## Tom J. Davis

I've just barely begun working on my home theater and already I've figured out I should have went with higher ceilings.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MountainAsh* /forum/post/15156973
> 
> 
> oh yeah...I almost forgot the most important thing not to do:
> 
> 
> Don't give anyone a date of completion! My friends hammer me without mercy over missed dates...
> 
> 
> Dave



Soooo true.


My son reminded me ruefully yesterday that I said the theater would be finished before our trip to St. Lucia.


That was last year's March break trip.


The theater room has just begun construction today...


----------



## mandarax

Rich..


Hurry it up will ya ...


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/15663295
> 
> 
> Soooo true.
> 
> 
> My son reminded me ruefully yesterday that I said the theater would be finished before our trip to St. Lucia.
> 
> 
> That was last year's March break trip.
> 
> 
> The theater room has just begun construction today...


_"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."_

--- Winston Churchill


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mandarax* /forum/post/15665332
> 
> 
> Rich..
> 
> 
> Hurry it up will ya ...



Walls are being torn down. No going back now...


I hope I don't have a lot to add to this thread at the end of my renovation.


----------



## dthibode

I made a mistake and thought that the center stud of my screen wall was the center of the screen. After the lights and drywall went in, I put up the unistrut to mount the projector and noticed the ceiling lights which were supposed to be centered to the screen were about 3 inches off in one direction. Truthfully it doesn't bother me one bit but it's still annoying to know I messed it up. Measure everything twice!


----------



## tony123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *pmeyer* /forum/post/15160419
> 
> 
> I gave a completion date: I'll be done in time for the Superbowl. Just didn't mention which one. (I'll likely make it by this one, though...)




So? time is up? Did you make it?


----------



## yamahaSHO

I'm taking advice from this thread and will now have someone hang and finish my drywall. After talking with the wife, I have little free time now (when I do, I don't feel like working) and I'd rather just pay the extra amount to have someone else that would likely get it done much faster than me working hear and there.


I am also looking into automated lighting


----------



## TKNice

LOL, here's one I forgot to add to this thread during construction...


I was trying to reach my tape measure and knocked over a bunch of sheets of drywall onto a beer bottle. I was just thinking that I need to move that bottle out of the way, DOH! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! Well, thank god it wasn't one of my kids or my leg or something.











And amazingly, the bottle didn't break.











But my drywall did. : /











Tom


----------



## bmwracer3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TKNice* /forum/post/15683296
> 
> 
> LOL, here's one I forgot to add to this thread during construction...
> 
> 
> I was trying to reach my tape measure and knocked over a bunch of sheets of drywall onto a beer bottle. I was just thinking that I need to move that bottle out of the way, DOH! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! Well, thank god it wasn't one of my kids or my leg or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And amazingly, the bottle didn't break.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But my drywall did. : /
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom



Holy Cow







!!!


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Great. It didn't damage the beer. Good save!


----------



## Johnsteph10

Was the beer ok?


----------



## windrockwater

Thats so freaking funny (sad too but funny really)....poor beer.


----------



## tlogan6797

Tastes great, less dust!


----------



## moguy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TKNice* /forum/post/15683296
> 
> 
> LOL, here's one I forgot to add to this thread during construction...
> 
> 
> I was trying to reach my tape measure and knocked over a bunch of sheets of drywall onto a beer bottle. I was just thinking that I need to move that bottle out of the way, DOH! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! Well, thank god it wasn't one of my kids or my leg or something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And amazingly, the bottle didn't break.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But my drywall did. : /
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom



LOL


That is hilarious. Too bad about the drywall though, but at least you got a laugh out of it.


----------



## akakillroy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moguy* /forum/post/15686489
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> That is hilarious. Too bad about the drywall though, but at least you got a laugh out of it.



Nothing a little tape and mud couldn't fix


----------



## akakillroy

If I had to do it all over again, I would have spent more time decoupling my walls and running the right kind of wire for the speakers. Also paid a little more and purchased better RCA cables and ran more than just one per side. Wire is cheep, finishing a wall is NOT!


I also would have used fabric on the walls and ceiling (GOM) rather than drywall ed.


----------



## TKNice

Haha Yeah I think the neighbors heard me cursing! Fortunately, there were so many cuts to make with the soffit that my drywall guy could work with it.


----------



## hmmm5

if i had to do over again, i would have taken more pictures. it hit me the other day what a missed opportunity, and i'm a big story teller. somewhat ironically, the 2 different sets of pics i did take (after framing, after insulating) turned out so useful with my project (total basement finish) that dragged on for about 9 months (in large part because i did a fair bit of it). probably half a dozen times there were buried wiresd, or turn off valves, or blocking and the pictures saved the day. but after reading through a number of threads on this site (which i thoroughly enjoy), i realize that not chronicling along the way was a visual story lost. so kudos to you who did/are and thanks for sharing.


----------



## JeffC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TKNice* /forum/post/15683296
> 
> 
> 
> And amazingly, the bottle didn't break.



I find that amazing! better than steel toes!


----------



## penngray

Next time I need to plan for double or triple the AV space.....height and depth.


----------



## scir16v

I guess you could say that you shouldn't drink and drywall.


----------



## hmmm5

who knows, the beers may have saved him


----------



## Nasty N8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd* /forum/post/10702123
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.
> 
> 
> (And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)



I did this and they still end up in the same place ALL the time or you can not find either because you set them down right in front of your eyes. (never thought to look there)


Nate


----------



## CJO




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Nasty N8* /forum/post/15804475
> 
> 
> I did this and they still end up in the same place ALL the time or you can not find either because you set them down right in front of your eyes. (never thought to look there)
> 
> 
> Nate



If you are going to use two tape measures, make sure that they measure the same. I had two that didn't!


CJ


----------



## dgjks6

I love this thread. I am doing my first home theater - all the labor by myself - and my little kids. I do have afew things to add.


1 - To all of those tape measure losers: I used to be one too. This is what I did. I got a work belt - and forced myself to always use it. I used to just keep tools "close by" on the floor, but would always be looking for something right under my nose. So I got out a tool belt that I had for years - and forced myself to use it. When framing - it had my hammer, tapemeasure, pencil, marker, and screws. When running the wiring had tape measure, staples, hammer, knife, etc. You get the idea. After I forced myself to use it and keep stuff on it it has saved a ton of frustration.


2 - DIY drywall: I have been on a quest for 15 years to be able to finish drywall myself, and I finally have arrived - after many attempts. But here are my suggestions after years of trying and watching some of the pros finish the drywall in my upstairs addition.

A - BE PATIENT

B - many coats of thinned out mud - maybe 5 or so - I do this and guess what - and this is the best part - NO SANDING - ok - maybe a little, but not a lot


Thanks for hearing my thought and helping me so much - now I have to get back to work - Which I have to take some drywall off and rewire the front outlets so they are on a switch - Somehow I missed the recommendation to fins an easy way to turn off powered subs the first time through.


Greg


----------



## lowrancep

I would go straight to the Fabricmate tracks and skip all the hassel with making wood frames for fabric panels.


I would keep my fingers further away from the wood when stapling and nailing with the air gun. Got hit once in the fingernail from above with a staple and once straight through my forefinger from under with a 18ga wire brad......


I should have taken pictures of the injuries above for posting on AVS


I would spend more time picking dead-straight wood for framing.


----------



## dthibode




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dgjks6* /forum/post/15835332
> 
> 
> 1 - To all of those tape measure losers: I used to be one too. This is what I did. I got a work belt - and forced myself to always use it.



This is such a simple suggestion but it probably would've saved me hours. I can't count the number of times I ran around looking for the tool I set down minutes ago.


----------



## Mr_Mike_P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Tariq745* /forum/post/13549681
> 
> 
> my house was build in 2003 and I could get my basement 1 foot deeper for $1000 it is 9feet now. I think I should have spend that $1000 but I was laid off that time Dam economy!



Don't regret NOT doing this. for $1000 is most certainly would have been done WRONG.


----------



## Redzot

I wish i had planned better, not let my friends influence that plan, and not trust my best friend to build the bar.


----------



## dododge




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lowrancep* /forum/post/15836181
> 
> 
> I would spend more time picking dead-straight wood for framing.



In my case the real problem is procrastinating on getting it nailed/screwed into place. With the framing lumber from big-name stores, what is dead straight off the rack can become a twisted nightmare after only 2-3 days of lying around in the house.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr_Mike_P* /forum/post/15871716
> 
> 
> Don't regret NOT doing this. for $1000 is most certainly would have been done WRONG.



I don't think he was saying they would dig his existing 9-foot basement one foot deeper, but that he was building a new house, and for $1000 they would build a 10-foot instead of 9-foot basement.


I agree, I passed on that option, and should have taken it.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/15883637
> 
> 
> I don't think he was saying they would dig his existing 9-foot basement one foot deeper, but that he was building a new house, and for $1000 they would build a 10-foot instead of 9-foot basement.
> 
> 
> I agree, I passed on that option, and should have taken it.



Yes, much cheaper in the construction phase. I opted for 9' ceilings (10' is too cavernous for me) and 17' vaulted ceiling in the great room and home theater. Money well spent! I never have regretted it.


----------



## dgjks6

Got another one. After I hang the drywall, I use a dremel type thing (made by black and decker) to cut out the outlet boxes. When I finished the other side of the basement worked like a charm. In the theater had problems doing it. Then I remembered that in the basement I had all metal boxes, and here I used the $.25 home depot box. The drill went right through the plastic.


Therefore, I learned that next time I will buy better boxes.


----------



## AbMagFab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dgjks6* /forum/post/15911384
> 
> 
> Got another one. After I hang the drywall, I use a dremel type thing (made by black and decker) to cut out the outlet boxes. When I finished the other side of the basement worked like a charm. In the theater had problems doing it. Then I remembered that in the basement I had all metal boxes, and here I used the $.25 home depot box. The drill went right through the plastic.
> 
> 
> Therefore, I learned that next time I will buy better boxes.



Or use the right dremel bit? I think there's one that cuts the drywall but won't cut the plastic boxes. Most people (at least in this area) use only plastic boxes, and the drywall guys never cut a box.


----------



## dgjks6

There are 2 "grades". The cheap ones I bought suck. The regular ones that I used for the sconces I had no problem. I bought the dremel drywall bit with the gauge - so I assume it is the right bit. Oh well, nothing a little joint compound can not fix.


----------



## mjpuls

They just finished hanging drywall in my basement where I have both plastic and metal boxes. They used a dewalt tool with a drill bit that looks just like a dremel on steriods. Cutouts look perfect.


----------



## mbec

I own said "dremel on steroids" and unfortunately can attest to the fact that your perfect cutouts probably have a lot more to do with the skilled hands steering the tool than the tool itself.











I should have sealed my foundation walls before I framed. (no water problems yet, just the added peace of mind.)


I bought 8' pt lumber because it was easier to transport. If I had bought longer lumber for floor plates, my walls would have been straighter, easier,... and required fewer studs.


I would have put down more sak-crete under my shower base. If you step in this one small spot, it creaks slightly.


I would have covered up my wife's treadmill better before drywall sanding.


----------



## dgjks6

Buy a corner trowel if you are going to do your own drywall. Do it. It is only $13, but I was too cheap and spent hours in the corners.


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbec* /forum/post/15922792
> 
> 
> I own said "dremel on steroids" and unfortunately can attest to the fact that your perfect cutouts probably have a lot more to do with the skilled hands steering the tool than the tool itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I should have sealed my foundation walls before I framed. (no water problems yet, just the added peace of mind.)
> 
> 
> I bought 8' pt lumber because it was easier to transport. If I had bought longer lumber for floor plates, my walls would have been straighter, easier,... and required fewer studs.
> 
> 
> I would have put down more sak-crete under my shower base. If you step in this one small spot, it creaks slightly.
> 
> 
> I would have covered up my wife's treadmill better before drywall sanding.



I can attest to the Dri-lok waterproof paint stopping water where it was coming through before (have to wait until it warms up more before I can fix the root cause and run exterior drain tile).


I'm not sure what you mean by longer top/bottom plates meaning you'll have less studs. The stud pattern shouldn't change based on your plates.. You can attach the same stud across two plates.


----------



## mbec

If you build long walls in 8' sections as I did, the sections must be joined somehow. Rather than using double top and bottom plates as the point of attachment, I chose to nail the end studs of each respective wall section to one another (effectively joining the two wall sections.)



The studs *are* on 16" centers with the sole exception of the last stud (which needs to be there as a point of attachment for the beginning of the next 8' wall section. 16 centers are preserved for the entire length of the wall, but every 8' of straight wall requires one additional stud as point of attachment only and not for drywall.


If I had bought pressure treated lumber as long as I wanted the wall to be (instead of only 8' long), I could have used 1 less stud par 8 lineal ft of wall.



I hope I explained myself clearly, it's one of those ideas that is simple to convey in person or with a picture, yet oddly complicated to describe with words.


*EDIT*: I reread your post. Rather than pulling 16 and backing off 3/4 (like an actual carpenter would) I pulled 16s from the end and ran with it. I didn't realize the error until I was finished. It certainly didn't cause any problems, but I would have backed of that 3/4 had I thought of it.


----------



## miltimj

Not using double top plates loses all of the horizontal rigidity (I can't say I've ever seen it done - single plates - other than homeowners). I'm not even sure that it's code, without using metal connector plates to tie them together and having joists and/or walls above it in line.


I know exactly what you're saying (you explained it well), but the attachment of two distinct walls should use double top plates unless other rules are followed. A side effect of this typical construction is that you don't need a second stud at each wall section. It seems like a lot of extra work for less structural integrity and basically the same amount of wood.


----------



## mbec

I am not a carpenter by trade (obviously).


Structural integrity is a non issue in my basement because every other stud is screwed to a block which I shot to the foundation wall after applying liquid nails.


Thanks for the input, unfortunately for me, it's 2 years too late to be of any help.


Hopefully it will save someone else a few headaches.


rob


----------



## miltimj

No worries - that's what this thread is all about, right?


----------



## xmenxmenxmen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dthibode* /forum/post/15836348
> 
> 
> This is such a simple suggestion but it probably would've saved me hours. I can't count the number of times I ran around looking for the tool I set down minutes ago.



I actually have a solution for this one, at least for me. I have now probably 6 or so tape measure. If I forget one, I just go get another one. Eventually by the time the job is done, I will slower recover them all during cleanup. I do the same for other essential tools.


Before that, I just run around in circles hours after afters looking for it.


----------



## miltimj

A tool belt is also an amazing concept. Cheaper and more organized than $12-15 x 6 (I don't buy the cheapo ones since the $12 ones last forever).


----------



## blipszyc

Only read through a few pages of this thread but I haven't seen anyone say this yet - Make a shopping list BEFORE going to Home Depot or Lowes. I'm sure I wasted numerous hours, days, weeks (+gas) because I forgot to get something at the store and had to go back or go the next day. Once I started making lists, I zipped through the construction phase.


And as Murphy would have it, a big brand new HD was built right around the corner from my neighborhood 6 months after my theater was done.


----------



## cavchameleon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc* /forum/post/16271513
> 
> 
> Only read through a few pages of this thread but I haven't seen anyone say this yet - Make a shopping list BEFORE going to Home Depot or Lowes. I'm sure I wasted numerous hours, days, weeks (+gas) because I forgot to get something at the store and had to go back or go the next day. Once I started making lists, I zipped through the construction phase.
> 
> 
> And as Murphy would have it, a big brand new HD was built right around the corner from my neighborhood 6 months after my theater was done.



Ha, I fell into that so many times (and still do at times). Thank goodness that Lowes built a store a couple blocks away (not so bad having to run back, but very inconvenient and loss of time). Yes, I also learned to make a list.


This is a great learning thread!!! Thanks!

Ray


----------



## robd1




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jstolzen* /forum/post/10693694
> 
> 
> Unless you have HUNDREDS (and I mean HUNDREDS!) of "free hours" to spend reading, researching, analyzing, and all around tearing your hair out, I'd HIGHLY recommend hiring one of the experienced HT design people here on AVS FROM THE GET GO. .



I'm going to be building my HT myself but I might consider hiring an HT design person to help me with the layout since I have several ways I can go. Who do I contact here at AVS for that? Thanks.


----------



## tleavit




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robd1* /forum/post/16373821
> 
> 
> I'm going to be building my HT myself but I might consider hiring an HT design person to help me with the layout since I have several ways I can go. Who do I contact here at AVS for that? Thanks.



On the flip side, I would say one thing I would change would be to analyze a lot of the stuff posted here a bit better. there are a lot of forces here promoting things that benefit the person (company) posting. I found general contracting my basement theater much easier then imaginable. I think you can skip most of the "technologies" people post around here and still have a space thats 99% as good without them and save a whole heck of a lot of money. I sure am happy 2 years later.


----------



## robd1

I hear ya tleavit, I'm not so keen on some of the new technologies myself. Maybe I should just make a new thread with pics and ask for general advice. The framing, sheetrock, finishing and painting I can do but I'll probably just contract out whatever flooring I decide on and the major electrical work.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robd1* /forum/post/16373821
> 
> 
> I'm going to be building my HT myself but I might consider hiring an HT design person to help me with the layout since I have several ways I can go. Who do I contact here at AVS for that? Thanks.



If it's a hobby, take your time and work through getting the best physical layout with regard to viewing angle, sight lines, projector position (especially important if using an HP screen), speaker placement, room dimensions. These are things that are difficult to change later on. I spent a good couple of months plotting this all out, setting it aside and coming back to it until I was sure all was as I wanted it. I am very pleased with the results. But again, it is a hobby for me.


If it's something you just want in a hurry, hire a professional with references.


----------



## Fn0rd

The murphy corollary: Never buy anything for your HT that you can't afford to replace.


If you buy a top-dollar screen, you will splash coffee on it.


If you buy a white leather $10k one-piece couch, you will forget to take the screwdriver out of your back pocket.


If you cash in the 401k to buy the biggest projector, mount, and 2.35 setup, and a no-exclusions extended warranty on the entire thing... you will find the termite-infested joist, still attached to the remains of your projector on the floor.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Fn0rd* /forum/post/16375108
> 
> 
> The murphy corollary: Never buy anything for your HT that you can't afford to replace.
> 
> 
> If you buy a top-dollar screen, you will splash coffee on it.
> 
> 
> If you buy a white leather $10k one-piece couch, you will forget to take the screwdriver out of your back pocket.
> 
> 
> If you cash in the 401k to buy the biggest projector, mount, and 2.35 setup, and a no-exclusions extended warranty on the entire thing... you will find the termite-infested joist, still attached to the remains of your projector on the floor.



Funny. But if you buy that $10k white leather couch you'll kill the ANSI contrast on your top-dollar screen anyway.







One of the many things to consider in the design phase.


----------



## dgjks6

Here is another one - still probably not to late to fix.


I would make sure the lights are on a remote control dimmer. I put in a dimmer and I have all the lights on one switch and thought this would be enough, but the process of watching a movie goes as follows.


Walk in the theater (which is pitch black - no lights and no windows) and turn on the light. Sit on the couch. Then turn on the cable box, projector, and receiver. When the projector warms up get up and dim or turn off the lights. Sit back down.


Actually right now the process is a little different. I do have 6 remotes for the lights. I tell on of the kids to turn of the lights while I sit on the couch, but one day I do envision watching a movie by myself and having to get off the couch to adjust the lights.


----------



## Suntan

Don't think this has been mentioned yet, but take pictures of all your framing/electrical/ducting *before* you cover it in drywall.


Three years from now when you wonder if that vertical run of Romex that you want to tap into to add another outlet is 3 studs or 4 studs away from the wall, you can look at the photos and know before you poke a hole in the drywall.


-Suntan


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Suntan* /forum/post/16380080
> 
> 
> Don't think this has been mentioned yet, but take pictures of all your framing/electrical/ducting *before* you cover it in drywall.
> 
> 
> Three years from now when you wonder if that vertical run of Romex that you want to tap into to add another outlet is 3 studs or 4 studs away from the wall, you can look at the photos and know before you poke a hole in the drywall.
> 
> 
> -Suntan



YES!! Can't believe I forgot that one. I did this and it has been very useful.


----------



## applegarth




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Suntan* /forum/post/16380080
> 
> 
> Don't think this has been mentioned yet, but take pictures of all your framing/electrical/ducting *before* you cover it in drywall.
> 
> 
> Three years from now when you wonder if that vertical run of Romex that you want to tap into to add another outlet is 3 studs or 4 studs away from the wall, you can look at the photos and know before you poke a hole in the drywall.
> 
> 
> -Suntan



I did this when I built my house and thought I was so smart. However, I did not count on my wife rewinding the film and taking pictures over them. Somehow I did not get any resistance on purchasing the digital camera after that.


----------



## Johnsteph10

I would have 2 of my most-used-and-lost tools. For instance:


1. tape measures (make sure they are identical)

2. Hammers

3. Levels

4. Commonly used screw drivers.


I'm sure there are more.


The best tool I had: a toolbelt. It saved me SO much time once I started using it regularly.


----------



## rec head

Not tried to plan the HT and the rest of the house at the same time. I haven't gotten into setup/layout of the room besides wiring but I'm worried that I haven't planned it out far enough and may have screwed myself. We'll see.


----------



## DinoT

Next time I would.....rent a drywall lifter for the ceiling. My wife and I put up the ceiling drywall. What a pain.


----------



## nathan_h

+1


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DinoT* /forum/post/16413743
> 
> 
> Next time I would.....rent a drywall lifter for the ceiling. My wife and I put up the ceiling drywall. What a pain.



Wow... you married a trooper!


----------



## agnathra




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DinoT* /forum/post/16413743
> 
> 
> Next time I would.....rent a drywall lifter for the ceiling. My wife and I put up the ceiling drywall. What a pain.



following chinadog's lead, i was actually able to get one on ebay for about $100 with $125 shipping or something like that (this was a regular seller who had an ongoing supply). doing a double layer of drywall and the rest of the basement over a period of several weeks made this a lot cheaper than renting.


when i was done my wife sold it at a garage sale for $175 but she's pretty sure she could have gotten all my money back, based on the interest she saw.


----------



## steebo777

After reading this wicked good thread, here's a few things I learned:
You only want to remove and re-install the drop ceiling once if you have to. Doing it twice sucks and scratches/breaks tiles.
Measure everything 5 times.
Have all tools available easily.
Don't drink and paint (it goes everywhere).
Wood paneling sucks.


----------



## gimmepilotwings

Within the past few days, I read this entire thread. I won't even begin on my theatre for another next 5 or 6 months.


Within the next month or so, I will figure out my budget. I want to loosely say that it will be around $10k for everything other than speakers and a/v equipment. It will be going into a preexisting room around 14.5' x 18.5'


This will have to include drywall, projector, screen, sound treatment, riser, lighting. Is this going to be enough?


----------



## miltimj

Assuming you DIY, that seems reasonable, but probably depends the most on what kind of screen (acoustically transparent or not) and whether you'll have a masking system (and assuming a basic $2.5K 1080p LCD projector).


The rest of the construction materials are a relatively fixed cost based on the size of your room.


----------



## gimmepilotwings

Thanks for the quick reply. It will be quasi DIY. My brother in law is a carpenter by trade so I won't have to pay him much to get the job done. It will be a 1080p projector. I don't know much about screens as this would be the first time that I owned one. I haven't decided on acoustically transparent screens or not, but that is a good possibility. I will probably want a false wall installed as well.


----------



## budk

Back on topic


I can't stress enough how important it is to draw everything to scale. I initially started to draw my room by hand and that worked for the initial planning, etc.


But, then I layed out the room in AutoCad to exact dimensions. Everything from wiring, joist and stud placement, HVAC, furniture, etc is drawn to scale. It has been extremely valuable as there has been many times that I had to go back and reference the drawing. Once you start putting up layers of drywall it's easy to forget where the studs are for instance.


----------



## CJO

You drew the stud spacing to scale? I think a stud finder, pictures and a tape measure would be quite a bit quicker!


CJ


----------



## yamahaSHO

Shoot, I didn't draw anything... I put some tape on the ground to show where I wanted the walls and went at it (everything was measured and square). I'm taking a TON of pics and will use that if I need to go back for anything


----------



## accts4mjs

It's definitely helpful to take really good pictures of all your walls before the drywall goes up. I left a few power lines (not connected yet) and speaker lines behind the walls for future expansion and it wasn't as easy as I thought to find them again. The pictures helped me narrow it down better.


I second budk's suggestion to draw everything to scale (try sketchup from google -- it's free). Turns out stud finders aren't very handy on double 5/8" drywall with green glue. I had to resort to rare earth magnets to find my studs










Mike


----------



## budk

yep, DD and green glue make it tough. Plus, I have a seperate, isolated ceiling joists just for the theater so I wanted to make sure I documented where they are in relation to the joists for the floor above.


I also took pictures but I have to say that I never realized what a pain it is to constantly photographically document your work. The guys that post complete photos of every stage of construction get a well deserved pat on the back from me. My room was always too much of a mess to get good photos of everything.


----------



## K-Spaz

Ya know, I've read a lot in this thread, and nowhere have I seen mentioned to go see other peoples HT's. Go check out what others have done, even if it takes a few hours drive. I didn't go check out others first and regret that now. So so many people here have offered to allow others come check out their arrangement for ideas, take em up on it.


Nothing you can read could tell you what you can learn from a person who HAS a Ht, and says, "I wish I'd done this different, and heres why...". Seeing all the other stuff is easy. It's the picking out details that's tough.


If I wished for one thing different, I'd have run conduit in the walls and planned better for new technologies. Someday, I'll want an 11.2 channel surround and I'm not wired for it. Nor did I leave provisions for it. Now, my room is still getting mouldings put up today yet, and already I'd have done that different.


Next house will be better!


----------



## shodoug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *K-Spaz* /forum/post/16770917
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> If I wished for one thing different, I'd have run conduit in the walls and planned better for new technologies. Someday, I'll want an 11.2 channel surround and I'm not wired for it. Nor did I leave provisions for it. Now, my room is still getting mouldings put up today yet, and already I'd have done that different.
> 
> 
> Next house will be better!



I was thinking of running any future wires behind crown moulding and possibly some other kinds of mouldings...


Doug


----------



## ridecolby

I wouldn't spend 2 years getting 90% finished my 1st dedicated theater only to sell the house and have to start all over again. Oh well bigger space and a better layout soon to come.


----------



## rec head




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ridecolby* /forum/post/16822625
> 
> 
> I wouldn't spend 2 years getting 90% finished my 1st dedicated theater only to sell the house and have to start all over again. Oh well bigger space and a better layout soon to come.



sure you would.


----------



## willmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bmackrell* /forum/post/10710200
> 
> 
> I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.



x2 I had the option of having the HT put under a section of the house that was not as widely used as the family room but I didn't anticipate this problem.


----------



## willmo

......and research, research, research, then, plan, plan, plan. Acoustics matter and it doesn't cost too much to get this done right. Don't hesitate to use experienced people to help with the drywall. Significant time savings can be gained. I hired a licensed electrician to consult with the wiring and was so impressed by his knowledge and time saving techniques that I hired him to handle all of the wiring requirements.


Internet bargains galore exist for the audio and visual purchases. Just shop around.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmo* /forum/post/16847227
> 
> 
> Internet bargains galore exist for the audio and visual purchases. Just shop around.



And (shameless plug) AVS is one of the absolute best sources for your projector.


----------



## Suntan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmo* /forum/post/16847227
> 
> 
> I hired a licensed electrician to consult with the wiring and was so impressed by his knowledge and time saving techniques...



What kind of time saving techniques are we talking about?


-Suntan


----------



## Suntan

If you're going with painted trim, don't use the white plastic trim. Use the fiber based boards that are pre-primed.


The plastic stuff works, but it seems to be inferior to the fiber based boards in every way. Plus you have to prime it yourself before painting it.


-Suntan


----------



## lucifers_ghost




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *steebo777* /forum/post/16417879
> 
> 
> After reading this wicked good thread, here's a few things I learned:
> 
> [*]Don't drink and paint (it goes everywhere).[*]Wood paneling sucks.[/list]




1) You are a messy drunk 


2) Yes, wood paneling suuuuucks.


----------



## willmo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Suntan* /forum/post/16895404
> 
> 
> What kind of time saving techniques are we talking about?
> 
> 
> -Suntan



What comes readily to mind was the installation plan for the receptales and scones. I didn't have one. And just his sense of planning the circuits. I think that I could have eventually figured this out, its just no telling how long it would have taken me.


----------



## donlino

I have started on my journey of building a dedicated HT room in my already finished basement and after reading through this thread was wondering what the consensus is regarding building cabinets in the front of the room to house the a/v equipment and thus placing the floor standing speakers in a cabinet or building a false wall? Pro's & con's would be appreciated.


----------



## bmackrell

I started down that path but after thinking through it I decided I didn't want any distractions in the front of the room while watching movies. so I ended up putting the equipment rack in the back wall and built a false wall to hide the speakers behind.


----------



## erkq

Yes. I put all my equipment in a projection booth and hid the LCR's behind an AT screen. I love the lack of distractions and I don't have to get into tech-talk in social situations.


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mr_Mike_P* /forum/post/15871716
> 
> 
> Don't regret NOT doing this. for $1000 is most certainly would have been done WRONG.



Price in 2003 was probably correct. Concrete forms usually come in 8' and 10' heights. Since his base bid was for 9' the contractor was already using 10' forms. The cost increase was mainly for the extra foot of concrete. and additional excavation. Going from 8' to 9' usually is a bigger cost since you have to step up to a larger form. Unless you top your concrete wall with block to get the additional height.


----------



## easycruise




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ridecolby* /forum/post/16822625
> 
> 
> I wouldn't spend 2 years getting 90% finished my 1st dedicated theater only to sell the house and have to start all over again.



And that seems to be the major take-away from all these construction threads on AVS. It takes years to build a home theatre if you do DIY. Clearly, you are much better off paying a contractor to do it and then getting almost 2 years worth of movie watching, sports watching, and of course, spending quality time with your family in the room. That's much better than being a hermit in your basement for two years causing continuous noise with saws and hammers and dust and dirt.


----------



## JustMike

...yeah, unless you spend two years designing it before you hire a contractor, which is what I've done. Sigh.


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *easycruise* /forum/post/17123879
> 
> 
> And that seems to be the major take-away from all these construction threads on AVS. It takes years to build a home theatre if you do DIY. Clearly, you are much better off paying a contractor to do it and then getting almost 2 years worth of movie watching, sports watching, and of course, spending quality time with your family in the room. That's much better than being a hermit in your basement for two years causing continuous noise with saws and hammers and dust and dirt.



Right arm dude! Finally somebody else with brains round these here parts!











P.S. What's a major take-away, anyways?


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hanesian* /forum/post/17124653
> 
> 
> P.S. What's a major take-away, anyways?



A lesson. You kid, right? Great pic, BTW. Haven't heard that "right arm" expression in a while. Funny.


----------



## tony123

Easycruise, there are times I agree with you (like when I'm dog tired and PO'd at the room), and then there are times that I wouldn't have it any other way. There is a since of accomplishement and pride that you don't get any other way.


This word is a big no, no, but I'll use it....I'm NEVER moving! Seriously, there is nothing work related that could cause us to move, and we would never choose to. So I'm really believing that all this sweat equity will pay off in years and years of enjoyment.


----------



## mhdiab




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *easycruise* /forum/post/17123879
> 
> 
> And that seems to be the major take-away from all these construction threads on AVS. It takes years to build a home theatre if you do DIY. Clearly, you are much better off paying a contractor to do it and then getting almost 2 years worth of movie watching, sports watching, and of course, spending quality time with your family in the room. That's much better than being a hermit in your basement for two years causing continuous noise with saws and hammers and dust and dirt.



Building something yourself and seeing it come together is a great feeling. My father can't even put a nail in a wall - seriously. So I am learning everything from scratch and the father-in-law. I put down my basement floor last winter and it is a great feeling to go down there and see what I did.


So while enjoying your HT is something you can do - enjoying the physical labor and seeing things come together is a great feeling.


My HT 1.0 is full of shortcuts - it is not soundproofed etc etc. I will have it done within the next couple of weeks and sure it will be great......for now







. Then planning for HT 2.0 is starting - next house and I am doing it all DYI and i can't wait to get started......


Also don't forget money is a constraint for most people. Getting a better HT built yourself two years later or a worse HT built by a Contractor....... I rather teach my kids what my dad couldn't teach me


----------



## miltimj

It's about the journey, not the destination.


...and you gotta have a backup room until the real one's done.


----------



## tony123

Well said guys! I was timid in my first response for fear of sounding crazy. The two years of construction is just as much a part of the hobby as any other part.


And yes, I didn't even mention the money. We wouldn't have a theater at all if I paid contractors, much less one like we're going to have! We don't do credit, so this room has to be put together as the funds become available.


We should have a fraternity for guys that did the building.


----------



## mjg100

My mistake was building my room too early. I built my room in 1999. Back then projectors were so expensive that I never dreamed of evening owning one. Even if I had the money, I just could not have gotten myself to spend $20,000 on a projector. My room was planned around a TV. During the design stage I let my wife talk me into making it a lot larger and only have one end set up for HT. In other words it became a family room with lots of windows. It is a great room, but it sucks for using a projector. The windows are just too big and too many of them to cover. That led me to convert our exercise room over to a dedicated room. It is small, but it is set up very well for sound and image and that is what is important to me. So my best advise is to not rush in. Plan for a long time. Draw out different ideas and try to think what changes you would want in the future.


----------



## carboranadum




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/17125240
> 
> 
> It's about the journey, not the destination.




+1


I'm doing mine as a DIY for three reasons:


1. I can do better work methodically than a contractor looking to finish quickly and move to another job.

2. Building stuff in the basement provides quite the sense of satisfaction when the work is done. I enjoy building stuff and am in no hurry to finish.

3. I can work with my children as we go along. They can learn how to do some of this...well, at least they can be exposed to what is possible.


Cost is a consideration too, but those are the top 3.


CJ


----------



## MidniteArrow

DIY gives the opportunity for quality assurance. But other than that, anything you do _can_ be something that takes you away from your family, and anything you do _can_ be something that brings you together. If you use building a HT as a reason to segregate, you'll probably also use having a HT as a reason to segregate. As others have said, cost, quality, and personal satisfaction are the biggest motivations IMO for DIY. If you don't want to mess with construction, and have the cash, hire it out. But for most of us this time spent planning, designing, and constructing is not wasted time. It is part of the fun. It can also enhance enjoyment when you have a full understanding of just how much effort goes into making it look and sound this good.


----------



## Tedd

Not having to pay a contractor meant far superior gear, and a huge media library. And just how many contractors actually show up, when they say they will?


----------



## zuluwalker

Thank you! After having read this I went down to the room I am building into my HT, and looked at the taped screen size...I got a shiver. What if I was too small? What would my wife say? Would she try to consol me and say "it is big enough", or worse "size doesn't matter". Either way none of these compare to my worst nightmare, spending money twice on a screen.


Again thank you. I will now leave that choice until after my projector comes home and is installed in it's new spot.


----------



## zuluwalker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/11424622
> 
> 
> Another mistake comes to mind. At first I did not use sealed lights, they ended up leaking sound. It was no fun redoing them, but if I had not I would have wasted a ton of money on RSIC Clips, Drywall, hat channel, Green Glue, R38. Now that I have sealed cans in the ceiling I no longer hear high / mid range leaking up stairs.



I have not installed my ceiling at this time as I am still working on the raised wooden floor, but this tip is surely one I would have walked right in to. Thanks, I now plan to go with light fixtures on the walls as another option I previously did not consider.


----------



## cuzed2

I would have:


1) Given up some space utilization (and storage space) and tweaked my layout in order to have a "grand entrance" to greet visitors to my basement, as mentioned by "Big"


2) Would have utilized one of the super quiet Panasonic exhaust fans for my Eq closet (I used a readily available bathroom fan)


3) Would have extended the exhaust duct work for my bath fan in order to add an exhaust fan to my bar area


----------



## JustMike

Interesting. Why did you find that you need an exhaust fan for the bar? I'm planning a popcorn machine, and it occurs to me that a fan is probably a good thing to have when one of those is installed. I like the idea of using a bathroom fan for the equipment rack.


----------



## mjg100

Originally Posted by Don_Kellogg View Post

Another mistake comes to mind. At first I did not use sealed lights, they ended up leaking sound. It was no fun redoing them, but if I had not I would have wasted a ton of money on RSIC Clips, Drywall, hat channel, Green Glue, R38. Now that I have sealed cans in the ceiling I no longer hear high / mid range leaking up stairs.


If I was going through all of the trouble to use green Glue, two layers of drywall and hat channel, I would do more than just use a sealed can light. I would build a box and place above the ceiling for each light fixture. Make the box over sized so that you do not have to have it in the exact location.


----------



## shodoug

That is good for a start, but unfortunately, certainty is more elusive than that. What looks huge to you at first, might leave you wondering why you didn't go bigger later.


Go as big as you think you might ever want, and mask it if it is too big. IMHO.


Doug


----------



## cuzed2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike* /forum/post/17141086
> 
> 
> Interesting. Why did you find that you need an exhaust fan for the bar? I'm planning a popcorn machine, and it occurs to me that a fan is probably a good thing to have when one of those is installed. I like the idea of using a bathroom fan for the equipment rack.



Mike,


Would be nice to be able to vent the popcorn aroma outdoors.


The bathroom fan actually works well. However if the Eq. area adjoins your HT space >> even the so -called "quiet" bath fans that are commonly available (Nutone, Broan, GE) will be noticeable (or soon will be as it ages).


----------



## rec head

I think the smell of popcorn is one of the best parts!


----------



## JustMike

Oh, yeah, I'll definitely want the popcorn smell, but if it were to burn, or after the movie is over, I think it'd be nice to be able to air out.


----------



## tony123

VENT THE POPCORN AROMA OUTDOORS!!! Is you crazy?!?!?!?!


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cuzed2* /forum/post/17141803
> 
> 
> Mike,
> 
> 
> Would be nice to be able to vent the popcorn aroma outdoors.
> 
> 
> The bathroom fan actually works well. However if the Eq. area adjoins your HT space >> even the so -called "quiet" bath fans that are commonly available (Nutone, Broan, GE) will be noticeable (or soon will be as it ages).



Some of the quietest fans are the Panasonics:


One store with Panasonic Fans 


I have the WhisperLites in my bathrooms, and they're quite quiet. 0.3 Sones (not sure how that relates to the dB ratings given for projectors) is the rating. They're likely still too loud if you're going to place them that close to the theater. I just did a test and can still hear mine about 15 feet away. The best thing to do would be to install a system where the fan is in the pathway for the exhaust (i.e., the attic/another location) and simply a vent attachment is in the room. This is what I wanted to do, but bathroom fans were already installed.


----------



## JustMike

In my case, the equipment rack is going to be in the wall of my kitchenette, which will be separated from the theater by a solid door, so I think I'll be okay with a good, quiet fan, but an inline fan is another very good idea!


----------



## scaesare

Having had my popcorn machine for just over a month now, I note that in addition to the wonderful smell, there's some degree of vapor and smoke that accompany it.... and it tends to slowly disperse throughout the room, hugging the ceiling.


I cant help but suspect there's at least a little oil suspended in there. As a matter of fact, the manual says that you know the oil is hot enough to add the kernels when the oil starts smoking a little.


With a ceiling mounted projector greedily sucking air thru it's innards to cool it, and a nice big flat screen surface for things to condense and collect on, I suspect it's only a matter of time before there will be some oily film in places I don't want them.


So I'm seriously thinking of adding a powered exhaust vent above the popcorn machne to try and cut that down.


----------



## mgoetze




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *robd1* /forum/post/16373821
> 
> 
> I'm going to be building my HT myself but I might consider hiring an HT design person to help me with the layout since I have several ways I can go. Who do I contact here at AVS for that? Thanks.



Did you ever get a response to this question?


I'm wondering if the available "experts" for hire are the people listed in the Customer Installer sticky? Thanks my guess, I may be wrong.


Mark


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mgoetze* /forum/post/17158550
> 
> 
> Did you ever get a response to this question?
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if the available "experts" for hire are the people listed in the Customer Installer sticky? Thanks my guess, I may be wrong.
> 
> 
> Mark



This type of question came up yesterday. Take a look in this thread (or do a search):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1178258 


I think of the custom installer thread as a hodge-modge. Some of the people there would have the requisite skill and training related to design, others are more skilled on the install side. I'd go with any of the three I recommended in that thread for design over a local in most cases - - actually, I'd spend years on this forum educating myself, and potentially still hire out the acoustic treatment design work.


----------



## R Harkness

Well my project is into it's second year, planning and building. At some points I've definitely been stoked and had some fun designing my theater (I hire various contractors to get what I want built, but every inch is custom designed by me with help from an architect friend).


But a lot of the times it's just been brutal. I'm frankly very, very sick of the whole process and not having fun anymore. It's almost done though.


The good thing is that for picky folk like me I get just what I want. All that time of thinking things through, looking at every alternative angle to do something, may have extended the project but also seems to have paid off as everything seems "just right" in the room so far.


Sometimes, due to all the mess and effort, I almost regret how much I've put into the project and think "Maybe I should have just done something simpler and been happy."

But I know that isn't me, ultimately. I would have picked nits. So intead I really went for it on all fronts to get what I want, figuring if I got the room right at this point I could just forget about it and stick to possible equiment upgrades in the future.


One issue that I may well end up regretting is cooling for the room. I did consult some HVAC and cooling guys, but they said it would be noisy and/or expensive to do anything big for my room (it's an existing living room renoed into home theater).

They said things should be ok as is - I have all the equipment, save the projector, in another room. And there is some air conditioning in there. But once I have curtains blocking off the room opening I'm afraid things might get too warm, especially in winter when we aren't running air conditioning. I'm hoping I won't end up having to buy an air conditioner for the room to watch movies!


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/17163028
> 
> 
> Well my project is into it's second year, planning and building. At some points I've definitely been stoked and had some fun designing my theater (I hire various contractors to get what I want built, but every inch is custom designed by me with help from an architect friend).
> 
> 
> But a lot of the times it's just been brutal. I'm frankly very, very sick of the whole process and not having fun anymore. It's almost done though.
> 
> 
> The good thing is that for picky folk like me I get just what I want. All that time of thinking things through, looking at every alternative angle to do something, may have extended the project but also seems to have paid off as everything seems "just right" in the room so far.
> 
> 
> Sometimes, due to all the mess and effort, I almost regret how much I've put into the project and think "Maybe I should have just done something simpler and been happy."
> 
> But I know that isn't me, ultimately. I would have picked nits. So intead I really went for it on all fronts to get what I want, figuring if I got the room right at this point I could just forget about it and stick to possible equiment upgrades in the future.
> 
> 
> One issue that I may well end up regretting is cooling for the room. I did consult some HVAC and cooling guys, but they said it would be noisy and/or expensive to do anything big for my room (it's an existing living room renoed into home theater).
> 
> They said things should be ok as is - I have all the equipment, save the projector, in another room. And there is some air conditioning in there. But once I have curtains blocking off the room opening I'm afraid things might get too warm, especially in winter when we aren't running air conditioning. I'm hoping I won't end up having to buy an air conditioner for the room to watch movies!



Look into zone control: www.retrozone.com/index.htm 

I used the flex damper system. Easy to install and it works well. I converted an existing room into an HT. Since the HT is located upstairs I placed the HT and bedrooms on the same zone. Install a remote sensor in the HT room. This way you can use the remote sensor to kick on the AC when needed. My room used to get hot, but now I can keep it nice and comfortable no matter how long I run the projector.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjg100* /forum/post/17166063
> 
> 
> Look into zone control: www.retrozone.com/index.htm
> 
> I used the flex damper system. Easy to install and it works well. I converted an existing room into an HT. Since the HT is located upstairs I placed the HT and bedrooms on the same zone. Install a remote sensor in the HT room. This way you can use the remote sensor to kick on the AC when needed. My room used to get hot, but now I can keep it nice and comfortable no matter how long I run the projector.



Thank you for the suggestion.


However, as far as I can tell that system requires you already have a comprehensive HVAC system installed, which I do not. My old house has hot water radiator heating and an installed Spacepack Air-conditioning system (Air Conditioner installed on top of our house, pipes were run through our walls into each room to provide air flow). We can not separately control the air conditioning flow to each room; it's either on or off.

I wouldn't want to power up the whole system in the winter, just to try to cool one room. That is why I figure I may have to try something like a ductless air conditioner just for my home theater room, if things get too hot with the room closed off.


----------



## rec head




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/17166637
> 
> 
> Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> 
> However, as far as I can tell that system requires you already have a comprehensive HVAC system installed, which I do not. My old house has hot water radiator heating and an installed Spacepack Air-conditioning system (Air Conditioner installed on top of our house, pipes were run through our walls into each room to provide air flow). We can not separately control the air conditioning flow to each room; it's either on or off.
> 
> I wouldn't want to power up the whole system in the winter, just to try to cool one room. That is why I figure I may have to try something like a ductless air conditioner just for my home theater room, if things get too hot with the room closed off.



If its cold outside isn't there a way to get some of that cold air into just that room? Lot less electricity and possibly less noise.


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/17166637
> 
> 
> Thank you for the suggestion.
> 
> 
> However, as far as I can tell that system requires you already have a comprehensive HVAC system installed, which I do not. My old house has hot water radiator heating and an installed Spacepack Air-conditioning system (Air Conditioner installed on top of our house, pipes were run through our walls into each room to provide air flow). We can not separately control the air conditioning flow to each room; it's either on or off.
> 
> I wouldn't want to power up the whole system in the winter, just to try to cool one room. That is why I figure I may have to try something like a ductless air conditioner just for my home theater room, if things get too hot with the room closed off.



I am talking about summer time cooling, when you are already running the AC. For winter time all you need to do is pipe in some outside air.


----------



## R Harkness

Thanks. I'll see how things go. Once my curtains are up in a couple of weeks, allowing me to block off the room entrance, then I'll see how hot things get.


----------



## twashade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjg100* /forum/post/17215432
> 
> 
> I am talking about summer time cooling, when you are already running the AC. For winter time all you need to do is pipe in some outside air.



This is exactly what I'm in the process of doing right now! I bought a variable speed inline duct fan and added a new vent in the theater and then working on getting the outside vent installed. Its basically a bath van in reverse, with the fan outside the room.


The hope is that by running the fan a low speeds that I'll get a good flow of fresh air into the room when I'm not needing to run the AC. I think it'll work great in the fall and spring, but will be curious to see how it works when its really cold outside and I want to just cool the theater a little.


----------



## ibgarrett




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/10723896
> 
> 
> Another one just came up in my HT thread - make sure you wire your PJ outlet so you can use a UPS!! I missed that one completely.



It was quite interesting explaining the concept to my electrician as to why I wanted to do that. It's great though - I got the entire thing setup with a UPS.


----------



## Cathan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twashade* /forum/post/17218726
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I'm in the process of doing right now! I bought a variable speed inline duct fan and added a new vent in the theater and then working on getting the outside vent installed. Its basically a bath van in reverse, with the fan outside the room.
> 
> 
> The hope is that by running the fan a low speeds that I'll get a good flow of fresh air into the room when I'm not needing to run the AC. I think it'll work great in the fall and spring, but will be curious to see how it works when its really cold outside and I want to just cool the theater a little.



That's what I do and it works great.


----------



## GRBoomer

What I would do differently...


Remove sharp and heavy object from atop my ladder before moving it.


----------



## nathan_h

That's not even a joke. I had an impact driver land on my head from a 12 foot ladder. Luckily neither my head nor the tool were damaged beyond repair!


----------



## Logic_BomB

Few things:


1. Paint quicker and/or remove painters tape earlier. Took me months to find the time to paint the basement and now that it's done I'm removing the tape (from months ago) and it's taking all the paint up with it, when it comes off at all.


2. Paint in the right order and be more careful while painting. The amount of times I've hit the ceiling with the wall roller and vise versa is amazing. Now I'm painting the baseboard after I've done the walls and I'm going to have to go back and repaint the bottom of the walls.


3. Pay someone to paint my basement. I thought it would take no time at all but for someone with zero painting skills and a frustrating basement layout (retrofit theater) I'd just as soon have paid someone $500 and be done with it in a week.


----------



## moguy

I actually painted all my walls before putting in the flooring, baseboards, and crown molding. I could be as quick and sloppy (at the edges) as I wanted. I ended up getting the whole basement finished in a few hours.


I also used premium plus Behr paint, so only one coat was needed over the primer.


----------



## Logic_BomB




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moguy* /forum/post/17260019
> 
> 
> I actually painted all my walls before putting in the flooring, baseboards, and crown molding. I could be as quick and sloppy (at the edges) as I wanted. I ended up getting the whole basement finished in a few hours.
> 
> 
> I also used premium plus Behr paint, so only one coat was needed over the primer.



My basement's ceiling is multi-leveled because of an I-beam the builders framed around. I don't see any "nice" way to get crown moulding in.


Trying to get a straight, solid line to divide the black ceiling and grey walls is just hell. I've tried taping (it bleeds under anyway) and one of those Sure cutting-in tools, the kind on 2 small wheels (only gets to about a cm from the ceiling - useless).


I think my last resort is to go around the room with a finer brush and just creep into the corners very slowly and tediously...


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Logic_BomB* /forum/post/17261925
> 
> 
> I've tried taping (it bleeds under anyway)



I've never tried this painting a room, but I used to build R/C model airplanes. We would tape, then paint the tape edge with a clear, let that almost dry and THEN paint the color. Then the tape has to come off before completely dry. The results were absolutely, perfectly straight lines. But I don't even know if there's a "clear" you can use for painting walls.


----------



## Cathan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/17262089
> 
> 
> I've never tried this painting a room, but I used to build R/C model airplanes. We would tape, then paint the tape edge with a clear, let that almost dry and THEN paint the color. Then the tape has to come off before completely dry. The results were absolutely, perfectly straight lines. But I don't even know if there's a "clear" you can use for painting walls.



Instead of "clear" seal the tape edge with the color of the paint that is below the tape. Then paint the wall like normal.


----------



## advertguy2

Alternatively, as I've seen on an episode of Holmes on Homes, do the first coat with an almost dry brush which just seals it but doesn't have enough paint to bleed under. then the second coat will go on without troubles. Worked for me many times.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathan* /forum/post/17264760
> 
> 
> Instead of "clear" seal the tape edge with the color of the paint that is below the tape. Then paint the wall like normal.



Brilliant!


----------



## mike2060




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/17163028
> 
> 
> Well my project is into it's second year, planning and building. At some points I've definitely been stoked and had some fun designing my theater (I hire various contractors to get what I want built, but every inch is custom designed by me with help from an architect friend).
> 
> 
> But a lot of the times it's just been brutal. I'm frankly very, very sick of the whole process and not having fun anymore. It's almost done though.
> 
> 
> The good thing is that for picky folk like me I get just what I want. All that time of thinking things through, looking at every alternative angle to do something, may have extended the project but also seems to have paid off as everything seems "just right" in the room so far.
> 
> 
> Sometimes, due to all the mess and effort, I almost regret how much I've put into the project and think "Maybe I should have just done something simpler and been happy."
> 
> But I know that isn't me, ultimately. I would have picked nits. So intead I really went for it on all fronts to get what I want, figuring if I got the room right at this point I could just forget about it and stick to possible equiment upgrades in the future.
> 
> 
> One issue that I may well end up regretting is cooling for the room. I did consult some HVAC and cooling guys, but they said it would be noisy and/or expensive to do anything big for my room (it's an existing living room renoed into home theater).
> 
> They said things should be ok as is - I have all the equipment, save the projector, in another room. And there is some air conditioning in there. But once I have curtains blocking off the room opening I'm afraid things might get too warm, especially in winter when we aren't running air conditioning. I'm hoping I won't end up having to buy an air conditioner for the room to watch movies!



You could look into a Mitsubishi Mr Slim ductless heating/cooling.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mike2060* /forum/post/17337230
> 
> 
> You could look into a Mitsubishi Mr Slim ductless heating/cooling.



Thank you. I've been looking into ductless cooling. Although I finally got my curtains in so I can close off the room. At this point things don't seem to be getting too hot.


----------



## Zeroes Sky

things I would do differently...


I'd probably go all the way back to get a larger house instead of trying to convert a small room into a man cave. The cave part is spot on, low ceilings, dark (no natural light) but I want a bigger room period.


Oh well, gotta do what you gotta do with what you have


----------



## Logic_BomB

Wow. I'm the king of learning through bad experiences it seems. Here's a tip that will save you some ripped out hair:


Make sure if you caulk cracks in the baseboards (which mine had extensively, almost the entire way around the room), you don't use 100% silicone (non-paintable) caulk. I tried to touch up/paint the baseboards today and it was like oil and water. ARH!!!


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Logic_BomB* /forum/post/17360672
> 
> 
> Wow. I'm the king of learning through bad experiences it seems. Here's a tip that will save you some ripped out hair:
> 
> 
> Make sure if you caulk cracks in the baseboards (which mine had extensively, almost the entire way around the room), you don't use 100% silicone (non-paintable) caulk. I tried to touch up/paint the baseboards today and it was like oil and water. ARH!!!



You can use latex with silicone. Lasts longer than regular latex and works real smooth. If you need a custom color to match your paint. Buy white and squeeze it out of the tube into a plastic bowl. Clean all white caulk residue from inside the tube. Add some (water based) paint to the caulk in the bowl and mix with a spatula. Keep adding paint in small amounts until it matches. Use spatula to get the caulk back into the tube. Tap the tube while filling to get out the trapped air. Stick the end cap back on the tube and caulk away.


----------



## Logic_BomB

I bought a different caulk to basically put a coat over the silicone stuff I already used. It's DAP brand and it's latex w/ silicone added, fully paintable, etc...


It's just a real bummer and hit to the motivation that I did the whole room only to find I have a redo the whole room directly over the work I just did.


I've read online that there is no "great" way to undo what I've done. The options boiled down to ripping it all up and re-doing OR rubbing it all down with alcohol followed by coating with a clear shelack OR put a layer of latex caulk over it (trying this since it's "easiest").


----------



## Meinbeast




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *strange_brew* /forum/post/10723896
> 
> 
> Another one just came up in my HT thread - make sure you wire your PJ outlet so you can use a UPS!! I missed that one completely.



Newbie question: what is a UPS and how do I need to be using it????


I am in the pre-drywall phase right now and the electrician is doing the wiring. The builder has a HDMI prewire option that I elected with includes running and hdmi cable to the ceiling and an outlet right next to it. Is that enough?


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Uninterupted Power Supply.


The easiest way is to use a powerbridge to the projector from the rack. Monoprice has one, or you can cobble together the parts locally, or you can buy the "Powerbridge" branded product. Run a search here and you can find a couple threads.


----------



## advertguy2

Can someone put up a link to the monoprice version of the powerbridge as mentioned above? Tried searching their site and couldn't come up with anything. Much appreciated.


Dan


----------



## GRBoomer




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *advertguy2* /forum/post/17380481
> 
> 
> Can someone put up a link to the monoprice version of the powerbridge as mentioned above? Tried searching their site and couldn't come up with anything. Much appreciated.
> 
> 
> Dan


 http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2


----------



## advertguy2

Thanks!!


----------



## filmnut




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Suntan* /forum/post/16380080
> 
> 
> Don’t think this has been mentioned yet, but take pictures of all your framing/electrical/ducting *before* you cover it in drywall.
> 
> 
> Three years from now when you wonder if that vertical run of Romex that you want to tap into to add another outlet is 3 studs or 4 studs away from the wall, you can look at the photos and know before you poke a hole in the drywall.



I didn't do this and I'm regretting it.


This may also save you from having to tear open a wall in the future, if you didn't get permits and some day you need an inspector to sign off the work. Really thorough documentation and pictures might be enough to satisfy them (and might help sway a nervous prospective home buyer).


Here's one of the best tips I can offer: When choosing layout, colors, carpet, etc., remember that some day you're probably going to put the house up for sale, and you'll need the theater to be attractive to a wide variety of prospective buyers. Keep the colors muted and tasteful. Make sure it looks professional, not DIY (even if it is).


----------



## Crash11

Wow what a great thread. I've finally read through the whole thing. I'm still at least a year away from starting my theater in my basement, but I've already thought of something to add to this. I'm fortunate enough to only have 1 of the 4 walls against the foundation in my layout so I'm definitely not finishing the backside of the other 3 until the theater is up and running the way I want it. I don't care if it's less efficient from a building standpoint to do a basement in pieces. In the end the room will be finished faster, and I'll be able to change almost anything up until the last minute.


Something else I thought of that would've been a mistake for sure..... for those of us in the northern states that usually have to worry about our basements getting too cold as opposed to too hot....I think the simplest way to solve the HVAC issue is to run electric strips under the floor ahead of time. It's silent and very comfortable.


Hopefully this thread is still going in a couple years when I'll have more suggestions to add.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

For those of you in the Northern States who think you don't need cooling in your theater in the winter ... probably worth rethinking that.


----------



## Cathan

I agree with Dennis. It's been in the 40's and I've need to turn on the mini-split a few times as the room got a bit too warm.


----------



## Crash11

You really think that's necessary if you ducted the projector exhaust outside of the room and the equipment rack was outside the room?


----------



## filmnut

Whether or not you need air conditioning is not a simple yes or no. It depends on a lot of things. Take my situation for instance:


I live alone, and I have guests in my theater about twice a year. When I do, it's usually just 2 other people. My entire projector is outside the room, all my equipment is outside the room, and my lights are only on long enough for me to load a disc and hit play. The theater is completely below grade and I live in Colorado, which means there is no humidity at all and it's very cool down there even on a hot summer day. In the winter, it's downright COLD. I have ventilation and a baseboard heater, but no A/C and I've never, ever wanted or needed cooling in there. What I need is heat, not cooling.


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/17446883
> 
> 
> For those of you in the Northern States who think you don't need cooling in your theater in the winter ... probably worth rethinking that.



Oh man, I really hope you're right, Dennis. I would *love* to feel warm - much less *too* warm - in my basement between the months of October and April!










That would be AWESOME!


----------



## Dennis Erskine

A moderate, but well built, home theater will be pretty much air tight. All the walls and ceiling (interior walls as well) are insulated. Each person in that room SLEEPING generates 500 BTU/hr of heat (if you're doing something else, more heat). Four people is (tough math problem) is 2000 BTU/hr. What's a small mini split do?


Now, if you live in MiniNoPlace, don't have a isolated, insulated, reasonably air tight room and your electronics are vented outside of the room, perhaps you could get away with no means to cool the room. On the other hand, I have done rooms in MiniNoPlace (and St. Paul), Adak, Colorado (lived there, done that), Ottawa and Vermont and the A/C runs in the dead of winter (even in Vail).


If you run around your house with scissors, you want a very cold house. The cold will reduce the pain, slow the blood flow, reduce your metabolism and give you a better chance of surviving while you're waiting for emergency medical services. That will also mean less blood to clean up from the floor. Ever been diving...in the Aleutians...in February...under the ice pack? That's cold. Your cool basement is a non-issue.


----------



## ExToker

Interesting topic.

I live, what I am assuming, close to ?MiniNoPlace? (just north of Minneapolis)


In a conversation a couple weeks ago with SierraMikeBravo, I had touched on a problem trying to control floor noise, with cold air return(s) a must. Heat, A/C, or a fan blowing in isnt going to do squat pumping it into a sealed room with no means of circulation.

I wish I would have planned that part much more carefully.


One thing I figure I can get away with is lots of blankets folded up around the room, doing double duty as absorbers. Guest are always happy to take a blanket, if needed.

I also got the idea of building tall 'quilt' racks. If a 2 x 3 absorption panel was integrated into the center, with a dowel across the top for draping a wool blanket over it, it should create a very WAF friendly (she picks the blanket), mobile, and hopefully effective point treatment.


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/17448858
> 
> 
> A moderate, but well built, home theater will be pretty much air tight. All the walls and ceiling (interior walls as well) are insulated. Each person in that room SLEEPING generates 500 BTU/hr of heat (if you're doing something else, more heat). Four people is (tough math problem) is 2000 BTU/hr. What's a small mini split do?
> 
> 
> Now, if you live in MiniNoPlace, don't have a isolated, insulated, reasonably air tight room and your electronics are vented outside of the room, perhaps you could get away with no means to cool the room. On the other hand, I have done rooms in MiniNoPlace (and St. Paul), Adak, Colorado (lived there, done that), Ottawa and Vermont and the A/C runs in the dead of winter (even in Vail).
> 
> 
> If you run around your house with scissors, you want a very cold house. The cold will reduce the pain, slow the blood flow, reduce your metabolism and give you a better chance of surviving while you're waiting for emergency medical services. That will also mean less blood to clean up from the floor. Ever been diving...in the Aleutians...in February...under the ice pack? That's cold. Your cool basement is a non-issue.



Thanks for the clarification, Dennis. I forgot all about the metabolism and blood flow stuff. Musta got water on the brain from too much swimmin'.

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/hanesian/AVS/*******.jpg

*EDIT:* P.S. For the record, I actually *do* have a/c in my soon-to-be HT. Before this whole basement refinishing project, though, there was no insulation so the only way we could use the place in the winter (i.e. half the year) was to light a fire and everyone huddle under blankets. *That's* why I look forward to the prospect of needing to turn on the a/c in the winter - it will mean we have entered a new, warmer dimension, and that all the time and money I invested will not have been for naught!


----------



## Cathan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathan* /forum/post/17446911
> 
> 
> I agree with Dennis. It's been in the 40's and I've need to turn on the mini-split a few times as the room got a bit too warm.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crash11* /forum/post/17447692
> 
> 
> You really think that's necessary if you ducted the projector exhaust outside of the room and the equipment rack was outside the room?



Yep. All my equipment is outside of the room and I vent out the projector hot air. With just my wife and I, I don't need the minisplit. When we had family over and there were 5-6 people in the closed room, I turned on the AC for short stretches.


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Crash11* /forum/post/17447692
> 
> 
> You really think that's necessary if you ducted the projector exhaust outside of the room and the equipment rack was outside the room?



Depends on the size, number of people and how tight and insulated the room is. Small, sealed well insulated room with several people watching a movie and you will probably get hot and stuffy even in the winter.


----------



## twashade

The cooling in the winter was my big problem last year. The room gets very stuffy even with all the equipment outside the room. Just recently I added an external vent with an inline duct fan that pulls fresh air into the theater during the cool months and so far its done a great job of keeping the room cool enough with 6 people in the room. Now, if I can prevent it from freezing us when we get down into the really low temperatures, I'll be happy!


----------



## cuzed2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *twashade* /forum/post/17503138
> 
> 
> The cooling in the winter was my big problem last year. The room gets very stuffy even with all the equipment outside the room. Just recently I added an external vent with an inline duct fan that pulls fresh air into the theater during the cool months and so far its done a great job of keeping the room cool enough with 6 people in the room. Now, if I can prevent it from freezing us when we get down into the really low temperatures, I'll be happy!



TWAshade,


This was a great "post of relief":


I have been reading all about the need for a mini-split or separate zone, especially for handling Theater heat load in the winter. Although; I have a large basement with a generally open floor plan; I do not have a separate system, and was starting to worry.


Then I see your solution > and realize that I have an unused exhaust fan duct line, and potential intake near the corner of my billiard ceiling, it's actually accessible from between the joists in the the adjoining crawl space. This was originally used for the previous owners downdraft range in the kitchen above. This range is long since gone and the duct work is in place but capped off. So If need it > I could easily adapt a thermostatically controlled fan and damper arrangement...


----------



## yamahaSHO

I am wondering how much heat I will have with my basement theater here soon. I'll test it out this winter, but if it gets warm, I thinkI have found a way I can pull fresh air in from outside... Which should be able to keep it extremely cold if desired.


Thanks to some of what I have read here, I decided NOT to do drywall myself and I am thoroughly enjoying the break I have while work is still getting done on the basement now. My drywall should be textured and ready for me to paint tomorrow.


----------



## R Harkness

Another little one to add:


I'd stop throwing things out so soon.


I'm talking about all the various samples, info, materials etc I went through and accrued while designing and building the home theater. My wife is "Mrs. Get Rid Of It."

Nothing makes her happier than throwing something out in the garbage as she hates clutter. All too often I've caved in to one of her "You don't need that anymore do you, can you throw it out?"


And every time...literally every time!...I've thrown something out I immediately realised I could have used it within the next day or week afterword. Typical of this is the fact she got me to throw out some speaker grill cloth samples a couple days ago, since I'd made a decision which to use in a certain application. Well, turned out the cloth I thought we were going to use wouldn't work properly, so I had to scramble for samples again. Luckily I was able to pull them out of the garbage before they went out. Otherwise I'd have had to order them again and wait a week or two to get them.


It's amazing how consistently this scenario plays out, and my wife wonders why I keep all this stuff.


----------



## twashade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cuzed2* /forum/post/17507775
> 
> 
> TWAshade,
> 
> 
> This was a great "post of relief":
> 
> 
> I have been reading all about the need for a mini-split or separate zone, especially for handling Theater heat load in the winter. Although; I have a large basement with a generally open floor plan; I do not have a separate system, and was starting to worry.
> 
> 
> Then I see your solution > and realize that I have an unused exhaust fan duct line, and potential intake near the corner of my billiard ceiling, it's actually accessible from between the joists in the the adjoining crawl space. This was originally used for the previous owners downdraft range in the kitchen above. This range is long since gone and the duct work is in place but capped off. So If need it > I could easily adapt a thermostatically controlled fan and damper arrangement...



Glad I could be of help. It was quite the pain to add the vent after the fact with the theater done, so hopefully my pain can help others to figure out options rather than zoning or a mini-split.


Btw, I've been paying attention to the temp in the room when I first walk into the room, and consistantly for the past 5-6 weeks, the room is sitting at 78 degrees. This is with the HVAC vents turned off and the doors closed, but since the rest of the house with the furnance on is at 71, it goes a long way to showing how will insulation and isolation can really affect a basement theater!


----------



## Logic_BomB

I'd build my riser with studs that are 16 inches on center so the fiberglass I bought to fill the cavity would fit nicely without having to cut all the batts.


I did mine 12 inches on center and cutting all that fiberglass for a nice fit was easy enough but really, really annoying (and itchy, and messy).


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Logic_BomB* /forum/post/17674349
> 
> 
> I'd build my riser with studs that are 16 inches on center so the fiberglass I bought to fill the cavity would fit nicely without having to cut all the batts.
> 
> 
> I did mine 12 inches on center and cutting all that fiberglass for a nice fit was easy enough but really, really annoying (and itchy, and messy).



If you do make them 12" OC, use 24" batts and cut in half (unless that's what you did). That, and always wear gloves and long sleeves, and use a sharp knife, and you really shouldn't have an issue with being itchy and messy.


----------



## TazmanianD

One piece of advice I have is that if you're undertaking a significant enough construction project (I built an entire room from the foundation up) you can get a significant discount (20% I think) from the pro-center at Home Depot if you give them an order large enough ($2500 I think). I think I was just a little shy when I ordered most of the wood for my project but if I knew I needed a little more I could have piled on a bunch more stuff that I just ended up buying later.


----------



## MidniteArrow

If you are buying that much wood, should you really be at Home Depot? I've always heard that you are much better going with a local shop vs. a big chain like HD or Lowes.


----------



## TazmanianD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MidniteArrow* /forum/post/17684721
> 
> 
> If you are buying that much wood, should you really be at Home Depot? I've always heard that you are much better going with a local shop vs. a big chain like HD or Lowes.



That's what I thought too. I went to a couple of lumber yards and they were more expensive. It wasn't entirely wood though. I also bought the drywall, a door and some other miscellaneous bits. Maybe if I was buying a whole house worth of wood that would have mattered but it wasn't a huge amount.


I did find that Home Depot is cheaper than Lowes though.


----------



## agnathra




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TazmanianD* /forum/post/17684851
> 
> 
> That's what I thought too. I went to a couple of lumber yards and they were more expensive. It wasn't entirely wood though. I also bought the drywall, a door and some other miscellaneous bits. Maybe if I was buying a whole house worth of wood that would have mattered but it wasn't a huge amount.
> 
> 
> I did find that Home Depot is cheaper than Lowes though.



i found that HD was comparable to a drywall supplier, but the supplier had their guys move the 150 sheets around the house and to various spots in the basement for an extra $50 or something...best money i ever spent


----------



## hosejockey61

I'm way back in 2007 in this thread but read of people wishing they had used a different conduit or having problems with getting a fish tape through. For conduit, I use 2" ABS...easy to run and big enough for everything.


The trick to that is in addition to running your wires, run your next pull string and tie it off out of the way and out of sight. Need to pull new wire? No prob, string is already there! Just be sure to piggy back a new piece of string to replace the one you just pulled.


----------



## hosejockey61

It is worth it to look at the local lumber yards....especially in this economy. I saved 27 cents a stud AND got free delivery! Plus the lumber was a better grade.


----------



## AbMagFab

I need A/C in my HT during the winter. My HT has one outside wall.


Are there any options that don't involve a unit in the HT? I can put a hole in the upper wall to the outside, but I really don't want to add any db to the room. I don't really have any place inside I could put an internal unit either.


Do I have any options?


----------



## barlav

This thread is great. I am just starting my basement theater in NY and this thread has already saved me a lot of future headaches!!


Here are some things that I wasn't planning on doing that I ended up doing after researching this forum and other basement construction resources.


I haven't seen a lot of these things mentioned in this thread so worth mentioning now I suppose.


1. Use 2" Polystyrene insulation in cold climates for concrete walls and rim joist cavities. Use Tyvek tape (or something similar) for the seams NOT duct tape. I was originally going to leave the fiberglass insulation the builder added on the walls and then found out that's not very good practice because of mold growing possibilities. I'm about 50% done insulating my basement with 2" polystyrene and it already makes a noticeable difference in the utility bill!


2. Backup sump system. If your basement has a sump system add a battery backup and/or a backup pump. I added a water powered system inline to my current sump system and it works great. The last thing I would want is a sump pump failure to flood my basement theater. With a water powered pump I could care less if the power goes out. For under $300 it was well worth adding for peace of mind.


3. Radon mitigation. When the basement is done people will be spending a lot more time down there. Make sure there isn't a radon problem. My home had passive radon mitigation installed and my levels were at around 3. I added a fan to the passive system and now my levels are as low as the outside air. Again, peace of mind for almost nothing money wise.


----------



## mike2060




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *AbMagFab* /forum/post/17886361
> 
> 
> I need A/C in my HT during the winter. My HT has one outside wall.
> 
> 
> Are there any options that don't involve a unit in the HT? I can put a hole in the upper wall to the outside, but I really don't want to add any db to the room. I don't really have any place inside I could put an internal unit either.
> 
> 
> Do I have any options?



You could look for a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim unit. There would be an outdoor unit, then you could have a duct in your HT. If you look around you will see the big white units advertised but there are other options and they are something like 24db in low mode.


----------



## crimscrem

This is a great thread. But it has me worried that I'm screwing things up as I go. We've got most of the framing up and a lot of the electrical done now. Pre-wiring for the HT and other stuff goes in this week.


My main concerns are sound dampening. My main space is 15 1/2' x 27 1/2'. The first 15 1/2' is the movie/media space and the back portion is a kitchen/bar space. (layout limited due to lally poles that I decided against removing.)


For the ceiling in the movie/media space, I'm doing R19 insulation and then 5/8" DD w/GG. I am not planning on doing anything else with the duct work except remove one duct and install flex pipe. This is more for ceiling height than for any sound reason. The ceiling in the kitchen/bar space and the rest of the basement will be R19 and 1/2" drywall. I'm also using regular can lights. At least the duct work on that side of the basement only goes to the main floor and not the second floor, which is where all the bedrooms are (those are run through a second furnace that runs to the opposite side of the basement).


I'm also putting the rack in the front of the room about 2 feet left of the screen. It's a convenient spot as I have a storage closet behind that. I appear to be underestimating the light the rack will give off. My backup is to put cabinet doors around it. I'm using a Harmony 900 remote so I guess I could use RF and don't technically need a direct line.


I also think I'm getting too small of a rack. This I'm going to try to address. Just have no idea what kind to get as there are so many options.


I did decide to use Lutron's Grafik Eye to control all the lights, and a UPS, so I guess those are some positives.


----------



## SkitzoRabbit

So I have a new home being constructed and got a quote for 9' pour in the basement for the theater room of $16 a linear foot, which will total me about $2100. Now after reading all of the pro height posts in this thread I'm definetly going with at least the 9' for that price. My question is I read that the concrete molds come in 8 and 10' lengths so going from9 to 10' should be cheap, should I suggest to the builder 10' pour for 20 a linear ft or is that unreasonable


----------



## tony123

Skitzo, definetely 9' is a bargain at that price, and a big help to most rooms. That's about what I paid. However, I was told that 10' was significantly more.


There are many other variables in the equation that will determine whether or not 10' has any value to you. I.E. if it's a small room with no risers, you'll not require the height. Large rooms, taller risers and multiple rows, a desire for a larger screen, those all make the ceiling height more valuable.


This also gives additional volume that you'll need to fill acoustically. I found that to be a challenge. I always wanted a large room and finally got one (30'x17.5x9') only to realize it was going to take more budget in equipment to give the sound I was after and the screensize impact.


----------



## crimscrem




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tony123* /forum/post/17985683
> 
> 
> Skitzo, definetely 9' is a bargain at that price, and a big help to most rooms. That's about what I paid. However, I was told that 10' was significantly more.
> 
> 
> There are many other variables in the equation that will determine whether or not 10' has any value to you. I.E. if it's a small room with no risers, you'll not require the height. Large rooms, taller risers and multiple rows, a desire for a larger screen, those all make the ceiling height more valuable.
> 
> 
> This also gives additional volume that you'll need to fill acoustically. I found that to be a challenge. I always wanted a large room and finally got one (30'x17.5x9') only to realize it was going to take more budget in equipment to give the sound I was after and the screensize impact.



My 9' basement ended up being primarily 7'10" because of the way my builder ran the duct work. Very, very upsetting.


----------



## tony123

Good point. An ounce of prevention with the mechanicals in the house is worth 10 pounds of cure.


----------



## carboranadum

Dear forum, it's been a long time since my last confession. I have had a difficult and interesting year.


I'd like to revise and extend my last list, as I keep learning stuff that I could have done better.


* In my equipment room, I installed outlets high up on the wall to power the telecom and LAN equipment. The problem was that I didn't install them in the correct location. My cabinets are farther along the wall so the outlets look sort of funny sticking out up there.



* The area where I'm installing the equipment rack has an angled wall (due to my desire to hide a lolly column).











The combination of the angled wall and the wall behind it created a "pocket" that the rack will fit in. I had planned to use a Middle Atlantic Slim 5 rack, but I couldn't stomach the cost for one new. I looked at Craigslist and Ebay and found some used, but I couldn't swing them at the time. I also changed my mind and divided that I wanted to put casters on the bottom and have the ability to move it in and out to access the back. I found a Middle Atlantic ERK series rack on CL cheap. AFTER I got it home, I found how large the two bullets were that I dodged. First, the rack just barely fits through the door to the equipment room (with 1/4" to spare), and the rack Perfectly fits into the "pocket". I'd like to say it was designed into the area, but it was purely accidental.


* The theater area has that same angled wall as the equipment room (that hides the lolly column). That column has caused compromises in the room. The center of the back row is offset from the center of the screen. It will be really tight to add a row of 4 seats in this space. It also causes issues with the installing a walkway to the back row. I'm also wrestling with the step (where, design, etc.).


This all boils down to planning. I had a great plan initially for the framing, electrical, plumbing and the like. I did not have a well refined vision for what the entire space would be. That is causing me issues at this late point.


CJ


----------



## chainsaw12117

I can't believe Walmart carries the Middle Atlantic ERK Series 25'' D Stand Alone

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...i_sku=11413995 


just seems odd for some reason


----------



## PakZX3




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dododge* /forum/post/15882897
> 
> 
> In my case the real problem is procrastinating on getting it nailed/screwed into place. With the framing lumber from big-name stores, what is dead straight off the rack can become a twisted nightmare after only 2-3 days of lying around in the house.



No kidding. I'm already running into that problem.


----------



## saeroner

I'm sure this has been posted before.... Paint the room dark and FLAT FLAT FLAT - NO GLOSS!


----------



## TazmanianD




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *saeroner* /forum/post/18000994
> 
> 
> I'm sure this has been posted before.... Paint the room dark and FLAT FLAT FLAT - NO GLOSS!



I would be wary about this. I painted my ceiling with totally flat paint and I kind of regret it. I looks a bit more dull than I would have liked. I'm not suggesting you get a glossy paint, but I would recommend something higher than flat. I think I used whatever is one step above that on the walls and that looks better.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TazmanianD* /forum/post/18044761
> 
> 
> I would be wary about this. I painted my ceiling with totally flat paint and I kind of regret it. I looks a bit more dull than I would have liked. I'm not suggesting you get a glossy paint, but I would recommend something higher than flat. I think I used whatever is one step above that on the walls and that looks better.



Personally, I watch the screen, not the ceiling. The duller the better.


----------



## Johnsteph10

Don't hang the projector.

Don't put up the screen.

Don't install a kegerator.

Don't have comfortable seating....


...before you are done with everything else!


----------



## heffneil

I think I would have gone with a 2.35:1 screen instead of a 16:9 and done the vertical masking or CIH masking not the horizontal. My room is 16'5" wide and I put my LCR's behind the screen. The one good thing about my setup is I have enough room for the opened curtains that will cover my screen when my TV's pop up!


----------



## willmo

If one has the opportunity to set up a separate equipment space, do it. In retrospect, I set up a space but it's really tight because I didn't give it much thought. The equipment racks on tracks look like a convenient feature when you need to access the plug-ins.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *willmo* /forum/post/18076312
> 
> 
> If one has the opportunity to set up a separate equipment space, do it.



+1... +, + and +! Absolutely! Noisy players, noisy projectors, obnoxious front panel lights... it all becomes a complete non-issue.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/18077143
> 
> 
> +1... +, + and +! Absolutely! Noisy players, noisy projectors, obnoxious front panel lights... it all becomes a complete non-issue.



Yep.


I wanted as clean a look as possible and I hate distracting equipment, especially equipment lights around the image, or even in the same room (especially with a projection set up). I placed all my source equipment and amplifiers in a separate room. I did wonder if this would prove inconvenient in any way but it has not been inconvenient in the least (at least when I have my IR repeater system set up). It all works great via remote control in the projection room and I get the extra space, clean look, lack of extra heat , lights, possible hard drive noises and other distractions.


----------



## nathan_h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *saeroner* /forum/post/18000994
> 
> 
> I'm sure this has been posted before.... Paint the room dark and FLAT FLAT FLAT - NO GLOSS!



Yep, in fact, I have flat black paint and even *that* is not as good as areas covered in black fabric in the room (like my acoustic panels). I was surprised that flat black actually reflects a little light.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18088305
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> 
> I wanted as clean a look as possible and I hate distracting equipment, especially equipment lights around the image, or even in the same room (especially with a projection set up). I placed all my source equipment and amplifiers in a separate room. I did wonder if this would prove inconvenient in any way but it has not been inconvenient in the least (at least when I have my IR repeater system set up). It all works great via remote control in the projection room and I get the extra space, clean look, lack of extra heat , lights, possible hard drive noises and other distractions.



+10. It cannot be said enough. If you can in any way get the equipment out of the room, you will be so much more immersed in the movie.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nathan_h* /forum/post/18091941
> 
> 
> Yep, in fact, I have flat black paint and even *that* is not as good as areas covered in black fabric in the room (like my acoustic panels). I was surprised that flat black actually reflects a little light.



Paints have absorbtion specifications. At least, that's what my "colorist" said on the new house. He selected a deep burgundy for the walls and a deep dark, DARK blue for the ceiling. It works pretty well.


----------



## GoCaboNow




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Johnsteph10* /forum/post/18049347
> 
> 
> Don't hang the projector.
> 
> Don't put up the screen.
> 
> Don't install a kegerator.
> 
> Don't have comfortable seating....
> 
> 
> ...before you are done with everything else!



So true. I know a fellow hobbyist that was building a room. After he had it painted he put the screen, seating and pj in. No carpet, acoustics or other finishing touches. That was eight months ago!! Been happy watching movies though- but not earning any WAF points.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> Paints have absorbtion specifications. At least, that's what my "colorist" said on the new house.



I'm sorry; but, that's really funny. The part of the visible spectrum a paint absorbs is what determines its color in the first place. Let's all paint our rooms the official Coke red. Other than LED devices, that color cannot be produced by projectors.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18264462
> 
> 
> I'm sorry; but, that's really funny.



It may be funny to you, but it's true. My colorist picked highly absorbtive colors for my HT. We even went over the absorbtion specs together.


----------



## nathan_h

It's not just about color but also texture, which is why flat is typically preferred over gloss. Of course, that's the strident example. It gets much more nuanced.


----------



## cuzed2

*If I were starting over today I :*


Would seal the sill plate area of my walls (up above) with a spray foam, like tiger foam or equivalent


Would have put an ultra-quiet Panasonic exhaust fan in my EQ closet (instead of a big box-store bath fan)


Would have extended my bathroom exhaust fan ductwork to allow another exhaust fan in the pub area to better accomodate a popcorn machine


Would have relocated my "panty area /refridg" to the pub room and used this space for a "grand entry", ie a ticket window setting.


Would have forgone a built-in bookcase media storage wall, and used this "in-wall" area for one of those killer "Danley subwoofer build-in kits" that have started showing up.


----------



## Exterous




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cuzed2* /forum/post/18285807
> 
> 
> Would have relocated my "panty area










What kind of theatre do you have?!


----------



## cuzed2

LOL - How did I miss that ?

Wishful thinking, I guess


----------



## A.E.C.

Go for or invest in the high-end QUALITY speakers (little by little)!


----------



## johnbomb

I found this one out just a few days ago: if you're driving lots of screws, buy a cordless 18v impact driver- you just have to use one to believe how great it is. That, combined with the use of star or square insert screws, like the "deckmate" variety you can get at Home Depot, will save you immeasurable time, energy, and pain. If I pretap, can drive a 3" screw, from start to countersunk finish, in about 1 second- no joke! I don't have to push it in, either. I just hold the driver on the screw, and the tool does all the work.


I'd pay $1000 for this thing, if that's what it took. Fortunately, the good ones (never, _ever,_ buy cheap tools) cost less than $200 street price. I got the Makita impact driver/drill combo with a 3rd battery at 10% off from HD, for around $350 out the door.


John


----------



## JustMike

+1 for the impact driver and the star- or square-shaped bits. They are all absolutely fantastic. I dread driving a Philips screw with a normal driver now.


----------



## miltimj

+1 for the impact driver, though I don't like the square heads.. the screws often have extra coating on them in the inside and make them less than usable.


----------



## Ksound

Some of these posts are really amusing from the DYI guys! Some are very informative too. If you do work yourself you are bound to make mistakes that you can learn from. Hopefully they aren't too costly










I'm currently building out a home theater/ family rec-room for my house. Double 5/8" rock, acoustic caulking, staggard studs, resilient channel, acoustic insulation, and double 5/8" sheet rock cut for boxes around the can lights to prevent sound from going up. As a musician with carpentry skills I've built a few recording studios and have learned what not to do.


I would have to say that the best advice I can give is to make sure you consider the heating and return ducts. They act like a sound magnet. If you don't pad the duct work all the extra work and money going into sound proofing goes out the window. My 2 cents...


----------



## scanr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Ksound* /forum/post/18447595
> 
> 
> I would have to say that the best advice I can give is to make sure you consider the heating and return ducts. They act like a sound magnet. If you don't pad the duct work all the extra work and money going into sound proofing goes out the window. My 2 cents...



Please describe how to "pad the duct work"?


----------



## Dennis Erskine

I started this sticky some while ago because this forum is a beehive of individuals building DIY home theater projects. I thought it would be useful for those who are starting on such projects to discuss the errors, omissions and "oh oops" that have been made by others to avoid making the same mistakes. Hopefully this has helped.


Our firm is a design/build/install organization with the ability to completely turnkey a project. Clearly, our business doesn't fit the profile of a DIY forum (with the exception of the designs we produce which many DIYers have utilized). Because we can turnkey an entire project, we have a view of the total project and can control the entire process...which is why we prefer turnkey engagements (but don't insist on them). Today, I thought I'd add just a few "errors" I've encountered with "disjointed" projects (the designer, builder, installer are different groups) and those where the lack of experience has resulted in some hair pulling.


1. Projector Mounting:

---- throw distances incorrect for projector/screen combination

---- projector mounted outside the range of it's vertical offset resulting in picture distortion

---- projector mounted higher than the top of the image area on the screen (a real problem with masking screens)


2. Seating

---- Radius seating (curved rows) where the seating radius is smaller than the radius of the seating platform.

---- Radius seating where the radius of the seats has the viewers on the ends of the rows looking straight ahead to the opposite side of the screen (most manufacturers will custom make the radii)

---- Front row viewing angle has the viewer looking upward more than 10-12 degrees to the center of the screen (uncomfortable).

---- Second/third rows don't have an unobstructed view of the entire screen area.

---- First row is too close to too large a screen, second row is too far for an immersive experience.

---- Elevated second row platform plopped on the floor as a island in the back of the room.

---- Attempts to put too many seats in the room, making it crowded, expensive, uncomfortable for "general" use and looking like you've tried to put 50lbs of potatoes in a 5lb sack.


3. HVAC

---- Even in Fargo, ND in the middle of the worst winter, you MUST consider the cooling and ventilation requirements of these rooms.


4. Room colors

---- I don't like black "man caves" any more than your wife; but, light colors (tans, off white) and bright colors WILL ruin your picture.


5. Screens

---- Screen too big for the room. Screen widths should never be more than 80% of the room width. Keep the screen at least 3' off the floor (if not more) and don't mount it within inches of the ceiling. Big is not always better.

---- Screen too large for your projector budget. A dim picture is not wanted and will result in low utilization of a room you put a bunch of money into.

---- With all the "arm waving" and "oh, my goodness, it will ruin your sound" I hear about AT screens, the FUD factor will result in the big non-AT screen and then the speakers end up stuffed in the corner of the room. If you want to argue about the "damage" an AT screen will do to your sound, here's news flash ... what an AT screen might, or might not do, won't even begin to compare with the damage the corner stuffing will do.


6. Sound Isolation

---- I've said it many, many times before. You can read all of Ted's goodies, buy all the right stuff, and have little to no sound isolation when you're done. This is really, really anal stuff. 1/2 way is zero results. Get help.

---- The primary object of sound isolation is to keep the room quiet...not to keep adjacent rooms quiet (if my wife isn't in the theater with me, let her eat cake...hope she doesn't read this). Once you've done this proud work, why is all the equipment in the room room?

---- Now that you have this very quiet room and you can watch movies really, really loud, tell me...will you hear the smoke alarms go off in your house? (and, you were wondering if you bought enough bass traps from Ethan).


Nuff for now.


----------



## avare

Fantastic post Dennis. Thanks!


Andre


----------



## jscifres




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> ---- Now that you have this very quiet room and you can watch movies really, really loud, tell me...will you hear the smoke alarms go off in your house? (and, you were wondering if you bought enough bass traps from Ethan).
> 
> 
> Nuff for now.



This is a great point and one that isn't made very often. I have an interesting solution for fire alarms in my lighting control system (I need to come back and fill in the product name). We are able to set a trigger within our fire alarm system which can be programmed to turn on and off the lights in my theater. We're not anywhere near ready to test this yet, but it was a criteria of mine from the start to get a visual cue if our smoke alarms in the rest of the house went off.


Another thing to consider... All these isolated rooms which have only one entrance/exit are a little scary too. Of course, it's probably already code, but I recommend that people think about their escape routes...I have an equipment closet in the back of my theater with shelving for the components. Today, I instructed my designer to leave those shelves disconnected from the wall so that in a pinch, if my theater door were not passable, I could push all my equipment over







and scramble out the back closet (and outside, because my equipment closet has rear access).


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jscifres* /forum/post/18484184
> 
> 
> Another thing to consider... All these isolated rooms which have only one entrance/exit are a little scary too. Of course, it's probably already code, but I recommend that people think about their escape routes...I have an equipment closet in the back of my theater with shelving for the components. Today, I instructed my designer to leave those shelves disconnected from the wall so that in a pinch, if my theater door were not passable, I could push all my equipment over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and scramble out the back closet (and outside, because my equipment closet has rear access).



I thought about this. In addition to the main hall entrance door I also have an exterior door. Escape! I also have a 2' wide door that goes into the master suite.


----------



## Ksound

"Please describe how to "pad the duct work"?"


Basically how we dealt with the duct work is to "pad" it with Roxoul acoustic insulation. We also used metal framing around the ducts with 5/8" sheetrock. The insulation is packed very tight to the ducts to minimize vibrations and sound transference. I thought that this might be the best solution given the budget. There are other solutions but they can be expensive. I wouldn't recommend just standard duct insulation as it's very thin and is built for retaining heat. We used metal tape to seal all cracks as well. So, we'll see if it all works once the remodel is done.


----------



## randyox

I have a nice family room in the lower part of our split level home. We have been using this for our home theater... 120" screen, panasonic projector, etc. The problem is that in the middle of the room we have walls that come into the room about 4 feet on both sides thus sort of splitting the room in half. We have talked about installing a steel I beam over the entire span. We finally decided to go for it and called in an engineer and a general contractor and will have the beam installed this Saturday. My wife surprised me a few days ago and said that as long as we were tearing down walls, we might as well take the time to install a nice dedicated home theater...( I know, I know... I'm a very lucky man!!!). I have been reading everything I can get my hands on for the past few years and have even had a file in my filing cabinet with a lot of ideas to incorporate. We have been going over the plans and are excited to get going. I have enjoyed reading all of the posts and have copied and pasted all the great ideas into a word document. I am excited to get going on this project. I appreciate everyone who has posted their ideas and thoughts. I am glad I am not a pioneer when it comes to this. I am glad there have been many who have blazed the trail for the rest of us...

I look forward to posting the progress...

let the journey begin!!!


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> 1. Projector Mounting:
> 
> ---- projector mounted higher than the top of the image area on the screen (a real problem with masking screens)



Awesome, thanks Dennis. Isn't the above problem addressed by fine-tuning the upper mask? I must be missing something here..


----------



## miltimj

Regarding "padding the ductwork", I've heard of using MDF as the duct itself, and incorporating bends in it, with some fiberglass insulation at relevant bends that will absorb noise from inside the theater. I was thinking of adding angled "dampers" on the sidewalls, that don't actually damper it, but catch the reflection.


Like:


Theater

|/ |

| \\|

|/ |

| \\|

HVAC


Anybody tried similar or (in keeping with the thread topic) have a horror story with this method?


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> Awesome, thanks Dennis. Isn't the above problem addressed by fine-tuning the upper mask? I must be missing something here..



Yup, you're missing something. In most masking screens you have

1. screen material

2. a 2" (or so) gap for the masking tracks and mechanism

3. a black border material.


If the projector is above the image area, the black border material will cast a shadow on the screen.


----------



## miltimj

Ah.. I thought about that, but figured there wasn't that big of a gap. Thanks.


----------



## scanr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *randyox* /forum/post/18553772
> 
> 
> all of the posts and have copied and pasted all the great ideas into a word document. I appreciate everyone who has posted their ideas and thoughts. let the journey begin!!!



I am in the same position only about 30-60 days behind you. I'm waiting on HVAC guys to enlarge duct and install 24 volt dampers. Any chance you could post word doc? I was planning on doing same!


Thanks


----------



## randyox

It's IN!!! I was able to get the 18' 4" steel I beam installed Saturday... big project but I had an experienced builder help me. Rented a lift from Sunbeam Rental and was able to position the 420 pound I beam in place and it made "easy" work of it. Removed all of the drywall from the room including the ceiling and have a room that is now 24' x 18' to install the home theater... next up... framing... hopefully this weekend. I will try and get pictures up this weekend... the only thing I would do different so far is that I would have started this project sooner and would have consulted with my builder more... I could have saved about $100 on the I beam install...


I will start a new thread in the theater design & construction with my build progress... as this one deals with "what I would do different"...


----------



## Cathan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *randyox* /forum/post/18581886
> 
> 
> 
> I will start a new thread in the theater design & construction with my build progress... as this one deals with "what I would do different"...



Thank you. We don't want this turning into a blow-by-blow construction thread.


----------



## jelloslug




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jscifres* /forum/post/18484184
> 
> 
> This is a great point and one that isn't made very often. I have an interesting solution for fire alarms in my lighting control system (I need to come back and fill in the product name). We are able to set a trigger within our fire alarm system which can be programmed to turn on and off the lights in my theater. We're not anywhere near ready to test this yet, but it was a criteria of mine from the start to get a visual cue if our smoke alarms in the rest of the house went off.
> 
> 
> Another thing to consider... All these isolated rooms which have only one entrance/exit are a little scary too. Of course, it's probably already code, but I recommend that people think about their escape routes...I have an equipment closet in the back of my theater with shelving for the components. Today, I instructed my designer to leave those shelves disconnected from the wall so that in a pinch, if my theater door were not passable, I could push all my equipment over
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and scramble out the back closet (and outside, because my equipment closet has rear access).



My window plug is not (and will not be) attached to the framing what so ever. I'm going to install a few hefty pull handles on it so in an emergency it could be tugged out of the window and dropped to the side. I also have a whole house fire alarm system that has a unit in my theater. If there ever was a fire it will set off the alarm in the theater also. I have an input module for my Grafik eye that I may even be able to incorporate into the fire alarm system to turn on the lights in the room.


----------



## Mfusick

Lots of solid advice in here... will use this for a reference and must read before starting a new project in the future


----------



## brushpharmd

I wouldn't have finished my basement when I built my house and had my in-laws living there for 8 years!







I got them out, now I have to tear down half the drywall to creat my HT!


I'm in the framing/rough-in part of my HT. Luckily I poured 10' basment walls when I built the house. I have a HT pro helping with the layout and recommended I widen the room from 14' to 16.5'. This was great advice because I would have kicked myself later when my chairs didn't fit!


HT pro is pricey, but may come in very handy when I need him. Doing most the work myself! The build is great so far, but tons of decisions!


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *brushpharmd* /forum/post/18591626
> 
> 
> I wouldn't have finished my basement when I built my house and had my in-laws living there for 8 years!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got them out, now I have to tear down half the drywall to creat my HT!
> 
> 
> I'm in the framing/rough-in part of my HT. Luckily I poured 10' basment walls when I built the house. I have a HT pro helping with the layout and recommended I widen the room from 14' to 16.5'. This was great advice because I would have kicked myself later when my chairs didn't fit!
> 
> 
> HT pro is pricey, but may come in very handy when I need him. Doing most the work myself! The build is great so far, but tons of decisions!



Good call on widening. 16.5' is a good width... 4 seats across easy with good walkway space on both sides. It feels cozy but not crowded. It's nice to get the surrounds a little further away too.


----------



## twashade




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/18554897
> 
> 
> Regarding "padding the ductwork", I've heard of using MDF as the duct itself, and incorporating bends in it, with some fiberglass insulation at relevant bends that will absorb noise from inside the theater. I was thinking of adding angled "dampers" on the sidewalls, that don't actually damper it, but catch the reflection.
> 
> 
> Like:
> 
> 
> Theater
> 
> |/ |
> 
> | \\|
> 
> |/ |
> 
> | \\|
> 
> HVAC
> 
> 
> Anybody tried similar or (in keeping with the thread topic) have a horror story with this method?



I tried this with my return vent as it went from the floor vent up to the main return duct in the ceiling above the theater. But, either I got the angles wrong or put too many in because I wasn't getting any airflow through the return vent.


Finally unscrewed the drywall on the outside of the theater and pulled them all out and it fixed the airflow problem but definitely lets the sound move better through the duct. I occasionally debate putting a few back in to see if I can find a compromise, but in the end I'm probably just going to use duct liner to actually line parts of the ductwork and hope that helps some.


----------



## moguy

Hey Guys,


I don't want to be a party pooper but this is a really useful thread for keeping track of things we wish we would have done differently in our HT's. Any extraneous discussion kind of dilutes the usefulness of the thread.


Cheers,


Mo


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moguy* /forum/post/18595029
> 
> 
> Hey Guys,
> 
> 
> I don't want to be a party pooper but this is a really useful thread for keeping track of things we wish we would have done differently in our HT's. Any extraneous discussion kind of dilutes the usefulness of the thread.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Mo



What's extraneous? Dimensions? Soundproofing? Ductwork? Light control? What are you objecting to? (We should delete THIS exchange when we're done.)


----------



## moguy

If any of the above refer to items the poster implemented in their theater, and now looking back, they wish that they had done them differently, then they belong in this thread (IMHO).


Now I will stop being a hypocrite and will limit any further posts to this thread to ones that are relevant to the title.


Mods, feel free to delete this exchange.


Cheers


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *moguy* /forum/post/18598500
> 
> 
> If any of the above refer to items the poster implemented in their theater, and now looking back, they wish that they had done them differently, then they belong in this thread (IMHO).
> 
> 
> Now I will stop being a hypocrite and will limit any further posts to this thread to ones that are relevant to the title.
> 
> 
> Mods, feel free to delete this exchange.
> 
> 
> Cheers



Oh, IC. Anyway... you and I can delete this exchange and I'll delete my part in a bit.


----------



## docwhorocks

Anyone make a tray ceiling with a 8' ceiling? How does it look? Regret it?


I have an I-beam running perpendicular the width of the room. Running parallel to the i-beam are water pipes. So I'll have to drywall around them. It cuts the room almost in 2 even parts. I was thinking since I'll have that soffit, what about extending that all the way around the room and making a tray ceiling. My biggest worry is that it will make the room feel cramped. The soffits would be about 9" wide and extend to the top of the door frame. So the the ceiling height under the soffits would be about 6'8". Too low?


----------



## NinjaofDoom




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *docwhorocks* /forum/post/18615537
> 
> 
> Anyone make a tray ceiling with a 8' ceiling? How does it look? Regret it?
> 
> 
> I have an I-beam running perpendicular the width of the room. Running parallel to the i-beam are water pipes. So I'll have to drywall around them. It cuts the room almost in 2 even parts. I was thinking since I'll have that soffit, what about extending that all the way around the room and making a tray ceiling. My biggest worry is that it will make the room feel cramped. The soffits would be about 9" wide and extend to the top of the door frame. So the the ceiling height under the soffits would be about 6'8". Too low?



Will you have a riser for a 2nd row of seats that would make this even lower?


I've been wondering this same thing.


----------



## docwhorocks




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NinjaofDoom* /forum/post/18635227
> 
> 
> Will you have a riser for a 2nd row of seats that would make this even lower?
> 
> 
> I've been wondering this same thing.



Yes I will have a riser for the 2nd row. The only problem with the 2nd row would be stepping up on the riser, the soffit amy be in the way. Depends exactly where the step is in relation to the soffit, it may be a non-issue.


----------



## TKNice




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> I started this sticky some while ago because this forum is a beehive of individuals building DIY home theater projects. I thought it would be useful for those who are starting on such projects to discuss the errors, omissions and "oh oops" that have been made by others to avoid making the same mistakes. Hopefully this has helped.
> 
> 
> Our firm is a design/build/install organization with the ability to completely turnkey a project. Clearly, our business doesn't fit the profile of a DIY forum (with the exception of the designs we produce which many DIYers have utilized). Because we can turnkey an entire project, we have a view of the total project and can control the entire process...which is why we prefer turnkey engagements (but don't insist on them). Today, I thought I'd add just a few "errors" I've encountered with "disjointed" projects (the designer, builder, installer are different groups) and those where the lack of experience has resulted in some hair pulling.
> 
> 
> 1. Projector Mounting:
> 
> ---- throw distances incorrect for projector/screen combination
> 
> ---- projector mounted outside the range of it's vertical offset resulting in picture distortion
> 
> ---- projector mounted higher than the top of the image area on the screen (a real problem with masking screens)
> 
> 
> 2. Seating
> 
> ---- Radius seating (curved rows) where the seating radius is smaller than the radius of the seating platform.
> 
> ---- Radius seating where the radius of the seats has the viewers on the ends of the rows looking straight ahead to the opposite side of the screen (most manufacturers will custom make the radii)
> 
> ---- Front row viewing angle has the viewer looking upward more than 10-12 degrees to the center of the screen (uncomfortable).
> 
> ---- Second/third rows don't have an unobstructed view of the entire screen area.
> 
> ---- First row is too close to too large a screen, second row is too far for an immersive experience.
> 
> ---- Elevated second row platform plopped on the floor as a island in the back of the room.
> 
> ---- Attempts to put too many seats in the room, making it crowded, expensive, uncomfortable for "general" use and looking like you've tried to put 50lbs of potatoes in a 5lb sack.
> 
> 
> 3. HVAC
> 
> ---- Even in Fargo, ND in the middle of the worst winter, you MUST consider the cooling and ventilation requirements of these rooms.
> 
> 
> 4. Room colors
> 
> ---- I don't like black "man caves" any more than your wife; but, light colors (tans, off white) and bright colors WILL ruin your picture.
> 
> 
> 5. Screens
> 
> ---- Screen too big for the room. Screen widths should never be more than 80% of the room width. Keep the screen at least 3' off the floor (if not more) and don't mount it within inches of the ceiling. Big is not always better.
> 
> ---- Screen too large for your projector budget. A dim picture is not wanted and will result in low utilization of a room you put a bunch of money into.
> 
> ---- With all the "arm waving" and "oh, my goodness, it will ruin your sound" I hear about AT screens, the FUD factor will result in the big non-AT screen and then the speakers end up stuffed in the corner of the room. If you want to argue about the "damage" an AT screen will do to your sound, here's news flash ... what an AT screen might, or might not do, won't even begin to compare with the damage the corner stuffing will do.
> 
> 
> 6. Sound Isolation
> 
> ---- I've said it many, many times before. You can read all of Ted's goodies, buy all the right stuff, and have little to no sound isolation when you're done. This is really, really anal stuff. 1/2 way is zero results. Get help.
> 
> ---- The primary object of sound isolation is to keep the room quiet...not to keep adjacent rooms quiet (if my wife isn't in the theater with me, let her eat cake...hope she doesn't read this). Once you've done this proud work, why is all the equipment in the room room?
> 
> ---- Now that you have this very quiet room and you can watch movies really, really loud, tell me...will you hear the smoke alarms go off in your house? (and, you were wondering if you bought enough bass traps from Ethan).
> 
> 
> Nuff for now.



Wow, it seems that I did everything wrong.










Thanks for an informative post Dennis.


----------



## R Harkness

Superb and much appreciated post Dennis. Thank you.


Couple bits of input from this amature:



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> ---- projector mounted higher than the top of the image area on the screen (a real problem with masking screens)



How much higher does the projector tend to have to be in order for shadowing to be apparent?


I have the Carada Masquerade horizontal masking system (top/bottom masks). I vary my projected image size (zooming/masking) but often enough _the top of my projected image is several inches below the bottom of my projector lens_. Yet I get no visible shadowing (I'd hate it if I did; I'm very picky about such things).


I note you mentioned a 2" gap being typical for commercial masking screens: my gap is between 1/4" to 1/2", which I understand is typical for Carada. Although I remember seeing a Stewart masking system at one point and being quite amazed at how far the masks were from the screen.

It would seem odd to me that more expensive commercial systems couldn't get their masking as close as Carada (or even some DIYers on this forum achieve).


I also have automated side masking, hanging panels. They didn't end up as close as I'd hoped to the screen - they are 2" off the screen material. I figured I'd have to eventually move them closer, but to my surprise I still get no shadowing from those masks either.


FWIW to anyone here.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Room colors
> 
> ---- I don't like black "man caves" any more than your wife; but, light colors (tans, off white) and bright colors WILL ruin your picture.



Which is why I wrote before how surprised I've been at the number of professional installations that employ light decor. I have to presume this was due to pressure from clients and not first choice for the installers.

Still...it always amazes me to see so much money put into some of these theaters only to have image compromising decor choices.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> 6. Sound Isolation
> 
> ---- I've said it many, many times before. You can read all of Ted's goodies, buy all the right stuff, and have little to no sound isolation when you're done. This is really, really anal stuff. 1/2 way is zero results. Get help.



I think this sort of depends on the goal. If the goal is total isolation, then sure I guess the anal-stuff pertains. But I have to disagree with the 1/2 way is zero results part.


My front living room was made into a home theater. Our bedroom is directly above it and the room has a large pillared opening to the hallway. I certainly have not done anything like full room isolation, but the measures I have taken have garnered very welcome results. As far as sound isolation (in terms of sound escaping the room) we did a build down of the ceiling, with acoustic material at points. The build-down doesn't cover the whole ceiling and the point of it wasn't actually to provide any sound isolation between the floors. But the sound nonetheless has changed since adding that section on the ceiling - the theater noise is less pronounced than it used to be when you are in the bedroom above.


And this makes some sense to me. Yes sound is like water in the sense it will move around and seep through "weak" or "unobstructed" points, which is why people looking for isolation would want to be anal about doing the isolation in a complete fashion. But that doesn't seem to mean that adding some obstruction doesn't render some degree of result. After all, even holding up a pillow between you and someone else in a completely open room affects the sound.


On the same note: the only thing I have to block off my theater room from the hall outside is pulling some fairly thick velvet curtains over the entrance way. Despite that these are hardly full-on sound isolation measures, the result is a MUCH better feeling of sonic isolation in the room - I used to hear everything going on down the hall during the movie; now it is rare for me to be distracted by such noise. And noise from the theater room escaping is muffled and less objectionable from the other rooms in the house. With only these meagre measures, I've achieved all the sound isolation that I personally need at this point.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18481278
> 
> 
> ---- The primary object of sound isolation is to keep the room quiet...not to keep adjacent rooms quiet (if my wife isn't in the theater with me, let her eat cake...hope she doesn't read this). Once you've done this proud work, why is all the equipment in the room room?



I certainly agree. I've placed all the equipment out of my room for heat/sound/aesthetic reasons and I'm very glad I did. I don't have the luxury of another room for the projector, but it's quiet and if I ever need to I can employ a hushbox.


Thanks again for the insights


----------



## Drew_V




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *R Harkness* /forum/post/18698272
> 
> 
> I think this sort of depends on the goal. If the goal is total isolation, then sure I guess the anal-stuff pertains. But I have to disagree with the 1/2 way is zero results part.




I also have to disagree with that particular comment.


Here's one simple example: Blast the stereo in one room and stand outside of it, leaving the door open. Now close the door. Hear a difference?


Doesn't have to be a sealed door. Doesn't have to be a solid core door. It just has to block the sound in order to be an effective "halfway" measure.


Sure, it's not soundproof. But it's better than nothing by a longshot. And certainly the closed door baing a "halfway" solution does not equal "zero" benefit in that case.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Drew_V* /forum/post/18698467
> 
> 
> I also have to disagree with that particular comment.
> 
> 
> Here's one simple example: Blast the stereo in one room and stand outside of it, leaving the door open. Now close the door. Hear a difference?
> 
> 
> Doesn't have to be a sealed door. Doesn't have to be a solid core door. It just has to block the sound in order to be an effective "halfway" measure.
> 
> 
> Sure, it's not soundproof. But it's better than nothing by a longshot. And certainly the closed door baing a "halfway" solution does not equal "zero" benefit in that case.



Most of the real sound isolation is on the order of 40 to 50 db. In that case, any little gap makes a big difference. So if you're looking at throwing insulation in an interior wall to get that 3 db of extra isolation, yeah... an unsealed hollow core door will make a difference. But if your target is 50 db, that unsealed hollow core door will absolutely destroy what you've done, just like any gaps. It all depends what range you're working with.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Perhaps some clarification is in order. In my mind it is absolutely a waste to go to extraordinary measures on a wall, or two, or perhaps just a ceiling and do nothing to the rest of the room. If you're looking for a 20dB TL in a door, there has to be a balance with respect to the effort (and expense) put into, say, the wall or vice versa. As well, one needs to define in specific terms what they want, or need to achieve. If you want an NC21 room so you can hear the full dynamic range of what Rich is laying down, that is a different issue than not doubling the ambient noise level in an adjacent room.


----------



## Drew_V




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18699306
> 
> 
> Perhaps some clarification is in order. In my mind it is absolutely a waste to go to extraordinary measures on a wall, or two, or perhaps just a ceiling and do nothing to the rest of the room. If you're looking for a 20dB TL in a door, there has to be a balance with respect to the effort (and expense) put into, say, the wall or vice versa. As well, one needs to define in specific terms what they want, or need to achieve. If you want an NC21 room so you can hear the full dynamic range of what Rich is laying down, that is a different issue than not doubling the ambient noise level in an adjacent room.



I think the way "erkq" put it, I started to understand what you were trying to say. But I'm glad you clarified it. Makes sense.


----------



## R Harkness

My What I'd Do Differently Next Time:


1. I hope I have learned not to overestimate the competence of contractors.


(Now, I'm sure there are reliable contractors out there, likely as represented by some of the pros here...but my luck hasn't been good unfortunately...and it's partly due to my own learning process).


Since I'm not a builder, not a DIY guy, and frankly not generally handy at all in terms of building anything, I've had to rely on my contractors. In each case I would think "_Well, THEY are the professionals, they do this everyday for a living, surely they know how to do the job and details of how to get the job done are best left to them_."


Yet in every case this misplaced confidence would lead to some disaster or another. If I were to write out here the litany of woes on my job I'm sure that even the most jaded here would be astonished. Unless I was there overlooking practially every detail, something would get screwed up. And it seemed 1/2 the time it was me just having to make sure these guys did things that one would presume they ought to be doing as a matter of course.


"Did you lay down any plastic on our rug before opening up our ceiling?" "Uh..oh..yeah...do you have any plastic?"


And it didn't seem to matter that I'd provide actual emails and hard-printed lists of the things to do. Every time I'd ask the contractor if "Y" on the list was done I'd get a blank look as if they'd never been aware it was part of the job. I learned the hard way that it seems most contractors don't care that much. THEY don't care about the details...YOU have to care about the details for them. It's like I've had to learn various trades just to make sure these guys are doing their trades correctly.


And even today this continues: My GC sent one of his guys to patch up our basement ceiling, that had been opened up so the AV installers could run wires. I asked did he have the access panels, to be placed on the ceiling at certain points for running future wires. Blank stare. Yeah...the access panels. The ones I discussed with your boss - in fact the ones your boss suggested he could get at Home Depot for the job. The ones I re-iterated we needed in an email to your boss when arranging for this work to be done. Nope. Like the discussion about the panels had never occurred. I phone the GC. He sounds like he forgot about them and _asks me_ "So...do you have the access panels?" Me? Isn't this your idea/job? Now I am the one off to find access panels! Friggin' hell.


So...I'll never expect a contractor to remember details...they just aren't as interested in the job as I am, and I won't expect something is going to be done right. Never. Lesson learned.


----------



## Bobmyster

While I am not done with my theater/basement build here's the one thing so far that I would've done differently. I would've put my DeltaFL floor and T&G sub floor down first before putting up any walls. In CO we have to build floating walls due to our expansive soils so with the subfloor in place, the bottom plate 2x4 only stick's up about 1/4" above the floor. Then there is the 1.5" gap for the expansion before the bottom of the wall starts. I'm too far into the build to pull the walls back down to redo it all. Should be interesting when it comes time for drywall and trim....


I'm sure I'll have some more to add, but this thread has helped save me from making mistakes others have. For that I thank you all.


----------



## vinyl

Hopefully it's not RRS Contracting!


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/18556055
> 
> 
> Yup, you're missing something. In most masking screens you have
> 
> 1. screen material
> 
> 2. a 2" (or so) gap for the masking tracks and mechanism
> 
> 3. a black border material.
> 
> 
> If the projector is above the image area, the black border material will cast a shadow on the screen.



Yes that was the one thing that I had to think about to solve when I made my horizontal masking system. My masking panels travel in front of my screen frame which would result in about a 1.25" gap. I made a sheet metal angle that attached to the back side of my masking panels. This angle runs from inside to inside (less 1/4" on each side) of my screen frame. I then wrapped the sheet metal angle with velvet. The velvet sticks past the ends of the sheet metal angle 1/4" on each side so that it gently rubs on the edge of my screen frame. My screen is a 1.78 screen. When the panels are fully open the sheet metal angle rests on the inside edge of the screen frame. And the panel makes my screen frame top and bottom bar look like they are 8" wide. Here is a pic.








[/IMG]

On the left of this picture you can see the 3/4" panel in front of my frame. On the right side of the picture you can see how the masking panel is extended to the screen. The edge of the masking panel is so close to the screen surface that the velvet lightly rubs the screen as the panels are moved up and down.


----------



## JustMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjg100* /forum/post/18710087
> 
> 
> The edge of the masking panel is so close to the screen surface that the velvet lightly rubs the screen as the panels are moved up and down.



Be careful with that. A friend of a friend gave me his old screen when he upgraded, and his masking system had also lightly touched the screen when it moved. Over time, it left marks on the screen. His screen was larger than I needed, so I just used the un-marred area...


----------



## mjg100




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike* /forum/post/18710110
> 
> 
> Be careful with that. A friend of a friend gave me his old screen when he upgraded, and his masking system had also lightly touched the screen when it moved. Over time, it left marks on the screen. His screen was larger than I needed, so I just used the un-marred area...



The panel it's self does not touch the screen. Where the velvet goes around the edge of the sheet metal angle, the velvet sticks out about 3/16". The velvet barely touches the screen, but it is enough to keep from having a shadow. It will not do anything to the screen.


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

Still relatively early in my build, but already a few to share:
If you're pulling cables through a long conduit, use wire pulling compound / cable lube - I ran a 2" conduit 65' underground, pulled 2 RG6 and 1 CAT5, and the last cable got bound hard - I didn't use lube. Fortunately, the cable was through, just not all the way - so at least I can splice/extend it. I thought 2" would be no problem for 3 wires, but one must have kinked on itself pretty good down there somewhere.
Don't do too many home improvement projects at once, or you can lose focus/attention on one of them, and compromise your results. I had a contractor put in hardscape in front and back, and while I was at it I had him put in the stone step entry into the HT room - didn't notice until much later that the entry appeared centered from the outside, but from the inside, it was well off to one side. My plan for rear speaker columns will need to be reworked significantly as a result.
When the inevitable "kicking yourself" moment happens, try to use it as an opportunity to be creative and come up with an alternative that's better than the original plan.
Adding onto Rich Harkness's comments on contractors: never assume the obvious, as contractors (at least the ones I've dealt with) will use any ambiguity in building plans to their advantage (not necessarily always with nefarious intent, i.e. save time / money, but also just using their judgement on what is best, which might not be what you think is best).


Undoubtedly more to come...


----------



## mizedog




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Cathan* /forum/post/10702374
> 
> 
> Just make sure they are the same make/model. I've learned the hardway when for the life of me I could figure out why my cuts were always a bit off. Turns out the two tape measures were an 1/8 off from each other.



This applies to moulding as well. The moulding with the same listed profile is different from Home Depot than from Lowes. In other words, just because both pieces say 3/4" corner "L" moulding, doesn't mean they're the same. So, I have a bunch extra moulding that I can't take back because it's been cut already. Just buy all the moulding you need at ONE place.


----------



## koberlin1

Just filled an excel spreadsheet with all this great material!! Some questions after reading all (PM-ing me is fine to avoid thread fluff):


- to avoid permeating what will hopefully be as tight as an aquarium, would it be best to install all overhead lighting and HVAC in soffits and all outlets, low voltage boxes, lighting sconces and speakers in vertical columns?


- on that same note (sound control), is it worth installing a surface flush equipment enclosure and PJ hush box at the back of the theater or is a separate equip closet and mounting the PJ from the ceiling the better way to go?


- is Green Glue safe for doubling 5/8" drywall overhead (for reinforcing the ceiling)?


- no one mentioned framing in some sort of foyer entry inside the theater to avoid sound directly hitting the main entrance into the theater...similar (but obviously on a much smaller scale) to what stadium-style commercial theaters do with their two entry/exit ways. Would seem like a good idea if the extra room width is available...but may also cause acoustic issues...?


- the theater project in mind would not be turnkey solution with all contractors under one roof...there would be different subs for each of the different trades possibly never having worked together or on a theater before. How can this be manged without pi**ing people off?


THANKS!


----------



## JustMike

I'm still in the planning stages of my theater (but very late in the planning), and I will tell you that if I had the space to accommodate it, I would *absolutely* build a separate projection and equipment room at the back of the theater so that all the electronics that make heat and noise could be isolated from the room.


As it is, I don't have a deep enough room to do a booth, so my equipment is mounted in a separate space in a room beside the theater, and I'm scrambling to try to find a quiet enough projector to use, since I also can't accommodate a cooling duct to a hush box. Sigh.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike* /forum/post/18843055
> 
> 
> I would *absolutely* build a separate projection and equipment room at the back of the theater so that all the electronics that make heat and noise could be isolated from the room.



+1000. I actually did this and it makes the theater feel like a real theater. That separation really makes a difference.


----------



## koberlin1

I would be building the theater from scratch and have control over required dimensions so could add the machine room at the rear of the room....figured having it in the room would look nice and would allow for easy access. With a separate machine room I would have to figure out how to get cool air into the room. Theater would have a dedicated HVAC so maybe could add supply and return ducts to the closet from that...only concern is that the machine room would probably need substantially more cool air than the theater. Any ideas for my other questions posted prior? Thanks!


----------



## JustMike

Replying via PM to avoid cluttering the thread.


----------



## wilcox71

Buy a truck, hauling supplies in the SUV isnt fun.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wilcox71* /forum/post/18867083
> 
> 
> Buy a truck, hauling supplies in the SUV isnt fun.



And trucks are cheap. I got a great workhorse 1985 F-250 4WD 460ci for 800 bucks! It drives great, it's reliable, hauls a yard of gravel easy. When you're done, just sell it if you don't need it anymore. It's a great tool when you need it.


----------



## HT2010

We are now enjoying our 12x18 media room (budget level, first time) in the basement and although we did double drywall and green glue, we did not really focus on the vent or pipes. I wish we did since the main purpose of the green glue was to keep sound from going up stairs to the bedroom which is right above the media room. Sound is traveling up because we have a vent that is connected to the vents to the bedroom and there is a pipe behind the drywall in the media room that travels up into the closet. We are trying to figure out now what to do that is cost effective without tearing down drywall, but hope others can learn from our oversight.


I should have read more reviews on streaming video and blu ray players and Netflix since picture quality could be better on our Sony 460.


We love that the equipment is in a closet with access to the media room. Last minute addition but we are so glad we did a riser (using two couches instead of theater seats because hubby preferred the snuggling option)(thanks to Roman who gave us the best deals on Berkline!).


We are very happy with our DIY screen which cost us less $100 using BOC. Maybe in the future, we would end up buying a screen but so far, everyone loves the view.


There are so many people in this forum that we wish to thank for all their contributions. We learned so much and we continue to learn from everyone.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HT2010* /forum/post/18952713
> 
> 
> We are now enjoying our 12x18 media room (budget level, first time) in the basement and although we did double drywall and green glue, we did not really focus on the vent or pipes. I wish we did since the main purpose of the green glue was to keep sound from going up stairs to the bedroom which is right above the media room. Sound is traveling up because we have a vent that is connected to the vents to the bedroom and there is a pipe behind the drywall in the media room that travels up into the closet. We are trying to figure out now what to do that is cost effective without tearing down drywall, but hope others can learn from our oversight.



Yes, an effective GG installation requires attention to detail. Plug boxes, light switches need to be boxed. HVAC needs to be insulated and sometimes re-routed. Sorry about this. But it sounds like you did well on other aspects and are enjoying the results. Congrats!


----------



## randyox

Just finished the drywall yesterday...double drywall, green glue, vents insulated... very very happy with the results... except one thing... I wish that I would have gone through my checklist one last time... I got caught up with the HVAC people and didn't notice that I had forgot to finish the PVC pipe run from the projector to the equipment room. A quick checklist of everything finished before the drywall went up would have eliminated that oversight. I was lucky though... I did notice before we started to mud... I was able to get access through a hallway wall and was able to connect the rest of the PVC pipe to the equipment room... so... make sure you have a checklist and double check everything!! Oh... and read as much as you can on this site. It has been a wealth of information!


----------



## Mfusick

This thread should be a must read for anyone starting a project


----------



## randyox

One other thing... make sure you have EVERYTHING in writing! When the sheet rock arrived, it was 1/2 inch not 5/8 inch. The guy who gave me the drywall bid said he didn't remember me telling him it was 5/8 inch. Luckily we were able to get things worked out... but it taught me a good lesson to make SURE I had EVERYTHING in writing... not just word of mouth!... and be SPECIFIC when you get your bids and EVERYTHING that is / is not included...


----------



## akakillroy




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mjg100* /forum/post/18710087
> 
> 
> Yes that was the one thing that I had to think about to solve when I made my horizontal masking system. My masking panels travel in front of my screen frame which would result in about a 1.25" gap. I made a sheet metal angle that attached to the back side of my masking panels. This angle runs from inside to inside (less 1/4" on each side) of my screen frame. I then wrapped the sheet metal angle with velvet. The velvet sticks past the ends of the sheet metal angle 1/4" on each side so that it gently rubs on the edge of my screen frame. My screen is a 1.78 screen. When the panels are fully open the sheet metal angle rests on the inside edge of the screen frame. And the panel makes my screen frame top and bottom bar look like they are 8" wide. On the left of this picture you can see the 3/4" panel in front of my frame. On the right side of the picture you can see how the masking panel is extended to the screen. The edge of the masking panel is so close to the screen surface that the velvet lightly rubs the screen as the panels are moved up and down.



I posted in your screen masking topic but perhaps you didn't see it. A couple of us were asking about the pillow blocks and bearings where did you find them? Also do you have a diagram or link to a diagram on how the cable is set up. Thanks in advanced!


----------



## clskinsfan

I will definately do a 2.35 screen next time and use a masking system for HDTV. It really sucks to spend all of the time, money and work on a beatiful HT setup and then have to deal with the black bars when watchin 2.35 movies.


----------



## tbraden32




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *clskinsfan* /forum/post/18997688
> 
> 
> I will definately do a 2.35 screen next time and use a masking system for HDTV. It really sucks to spend all of the time, money and work on a beatiful HT setup and then have to deal with the black bars when watchin 2.35 movies.



why not just mask the top and bottom of your current screen?


----------



## Drew_V

I would definitely NOT do oak trimwork and doors next time. Just stick with the painted pine and avoid all the hassle of making "perfect" cuts and staining/varnishing.


I've spent easily 2 full weeks just working on trimwork, making transition pieces, and picking out just the right shade of stain and just the right sheen of topcoat.


Maybe I'll think it's worth it when it's all done, but the extra work it's creating just doesn't seem to be worth the effort.


----------



## tleavit

I'm 3 years into my HT now and heres some things I wish I had done at the time of construction:


1) Rear seat risers. I ended up building my own and its great but I still haven't found a person to put carpet on it at a decent price. Carpet wont match the floor.


2) Got the sound panels on sooner / planned them in the initial budget


3) Blocked of one of my windows entirely and had dark tint placed on the others. Even with blackout curtens, light streaks come through in the day.


4) As usual read everything you can here but also take everything with a grain of salt. You can produce a near perfect setup without all the fancy/crazy stuff you read here. Its really not that complicated.


----------



## zuluwalker




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick* /forum/post/18976950
> 
> 
> This thread should be a must read for anyone starting a project



It's also a great place to come back to after your done, so the sharing of Jedi theater experiences can continue!


----------



## nathan_h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tbraden32* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> why not just mask the top and bottom of your current screen?



+1


----------



## sworth

My tip is to keep it comfortable. If you really would like to live in a mall theater, fine. But you'll probably use your theater more if it feels more like a living room.


----------



## johnbomb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sworth* /forum/post/19099698
> 
> 
> My tip is to keep it comfortable. If you really would like to live in a mall theater, fine. But you'll probably use your theater more if it feels more like a living room.



Amen, brother.


----------



## KnightRT

A few thoughts from a dedicated theater build that took about three months:


- Plan your ideal end result: what you'd do if cost and time were no object. Then plot a hypothetical of the details and the order you'd do them. The more you flesh out the project, the more feasible it will become. If you opt for a significant compromise, expect to revisit that compromise later.


- Sound treatment is huge. A lot of what makes a theater a theater are clear, intelligible vocals. In a smaller space, you're liable not to get them unless you put significant effort into deadening room resonance in the 75 - 200 hz range. Budget for this. 2x4x4" panels are about $25 each if you build them yourself.


- Seating is important, but not necessarily in the obvious ways. You don't need giant lounge chairs. What you do need are footrests and a place to put drinks or candy. Even a little carpeted mini-riser 8" high in front of a row of chairs would be adequate for feet. As to the actual chair units, castoffs from movie theaters appear on Craigslist all the time. I've seen them for as little as $15 each. Beanbags can provide a makeshift front row if your guests have overflowed your seating.


- The involvement of a movie is directly proportional to the size of the screen. My screen is 12' wide in a 13' wide room, and I still resent the 6" I lost to masking. It's more important than almost any other factor. If you want to immerse people (and yourself), show them a giant picture. Theaters with a $50K room built around a 100" screen don't make any sense to me. If there's a compelling reason to downsize, IMAX hasn't been paying attention.


- Plan your projector arrangement from the outset. Particularly with DLP units, you're liable to have a fixed offset that'll cause all sorts of problems. Figure out the screen size, placement, projector, mounting system, and distances before you lift a finger to construct anything. Your life won't end if you have to use mild keystone correction. The difference is invisible with my Mitsubishi projector.


- A note for those with 2.40:1 screens: about of a third of all movies are 1.85:1 ratio. Of those, perhaps half can be cropped vertically to fit the wider aspect ratio. The rest, as well as any HTPC or similar hardware that uses the native resolution of the projector, will require projecting a downsized image to the center of the screen. You can do this in hardware with an anamorphic lens or with the zoom/shift mechanism common to most LCD projectors. The former is expensive. The latter is annoying, even if it's motorized. Certain more recent DLP projectors have an aspect switch function that downsizes the image in software with only a minor hit to quality. If you do opt for DLP, it's absolutely worth looking for this feature.


I'm aware that some of this is contrary to advice given earlier in this thread. I prefer a dense room arrangement that allows for more people and a stronger feeling of a shared comradery, even if it compromises viewing angles for some.


----------



## BRPD4627

Does anyone have contact information for some to hire to help design a room.


----------



## carboranadum




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BRPD4627* /forum/post/19345922
> 
> 
> Does anyone have contact information for some to hire to help design a room.


 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1267433 


or Dennis Erskine.


----------



## tony123

I've been under construction for 3 years now. I've been using the theater all through construction and will contradict common advice to not hang the projector too early. It does slow construction down, but it has led to some of the bes "revisions" to my layout and construction. In my opinion, it's a necessary tool. There's no substitute for living with something. Well, having professional experience is, but we don't all have that.


I just made one such change in my room. Getting the equipment rack out of the theater! It's been said many, many times on this thread, and I'll repeat it. I've now had the equipment in an adjacent room for only a week, but it has immediately changed the space in several ways. Mainly, it changed the character of the room. It lost some of that "home entertainment" feel. You know, a room with a big screen and a stack of lit up boxes.


Keep this one high on your priority list.


----------



## Drew_V

One thing I would do differently is focus more on air circulation and cooling! A sealed room with 7 people sitting in there for 3 hours with a 250-Watt projector bulb heating up the room definitely makes it uncomfortable in a hurry! And if you have equipment INSIDE the room (mine is fortunately outside the room), things are much, much worse.


Whatever plans you might have to cool the room, double it. I've already had to add a second fan to my room and it's still warm.


----------



## erandmckay

I would have spent more time on pre-wiring and future channels for wires. I would have looked more at room isolation (you can hear the movie too clearly upstair, which is only cool sometimes)


----------



## Hughman

Similar to what a few have posted, definitely hire out the taping and mudding portion of the project, what slow pain in the but process. Being primarily Scottish, however, this is the third time I've learned this lesson and I'd likely cheap out again and do it myself next time as well. I'm sure I've been mudding, sand off the mud, mud again for about 2 weeks now.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Hughman* /forum/post/19461440
> 
> 
> Similar to what a few have posted, definitely hire out the taping and mudding portion of the project, what slow pain in the but process. Being primarily Scottish, however, this is the third time I've learned this lesson and I'd likely cheap out again and do it myself next time as well. I'm sure I've been mudding, sand off the mud, mud again for about 2 weeks now.



I hear ya'. I'm having a door installed. The taper/mudder just left. I'm certainly not doing it!


----------



## azhri

Things I would do differently next time.


I would have a better baseline plan with more focus on the room instead of the equipment.


I would have the understanding that actual AV equipment is a small fraction of the actual cost, and to not underestimate the cost of seating.


Figure out your lighting and test everything if possible to ensure it is what you want. Nothing sucks more than having your theater lighting interfere with viewing because you didn't notice how bright or directional it was.


Have the actual room completed before any purchase of any AV equipment. Having 30 day buyers remorse/RMA periods expire because you are waiting for construction to finish is brutal on the wallet.


I would do more research and allocate more money to the purchasing and configuration of a universal remote. Testing various models to see which one worked best and had the best/easiest configuration utility. Been done for a month now and I'm still not happy with my remote.


Lastly, purchase your equipment from a verified authorized dealer, and then only if they're willing to give up their contact information. The internet makes it too easy to scam people with fake websites or misinformation on the condition of equipment. Ebay and Craigslist are nice for deals, but if you get a lemon your avenue of recourse is limited as many manufacturers will not honor the warranty.


----------



## jandawil

1. Invested more $$$ in AC..probably doing a mini-split system. It get's pretty toasty in there in the summer months.


2. Would have ensured my receiver could at least pass 1080P via HDMI. My PJ is 720P since 1080P wasn't affordable at the time, but if i were to upgrade now I may need to also upgrade a darn good AVR (Yamaha RX-V2600) since it will not pass 1080P...only 1080i.


3. Would NOT have purchased SmartHome Insteon lighting. Nothing but trouble with the dimmers and they did not make an RF converter to control with Universal remote until years later....after I already switched out the broken switches with standard dimmers.


4. Bought a row of 4 Coaster HT seats as opposed to only 3. Now my more grown family of 4 can't all sit in the front row.


----------



## SierraMikeBravo




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jandawil* /forum/post/19622102
> 
> 
> 2. Would have ensured my receiver could at least pass 1080P via HDMI. My PJ is 720P since 1080P wasn't affordable at the time, but if i were to upgrade now I may need to also upgrade a darn good AVR (Yamaha RX-V2600) since it will not pass 1080P...only 1080i.



Nope, you don't need to upgrade the AVR. You could purchase and outboard scaler that passes audio only via HDMI, such as the new DVDO iScan Duo. The DVDO has a seperate HDMI output to an AVR for audio only, and was soon to get HDMI 1.4a software to allow 3D pass through. So, in essence, you don't have to upgrade anything, just add the DVDO and you have pretty much the latest and greatest if that is your thing. In essence, you make the DVDO, and not the receiver, the nerve center. Plus, you get excellent scaling and support of anamorphic screens, 11 point gamma/grey scale, full color management system, etc. They really are fantastic gems for the price. Hope this helped!


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jandawil* /forum/post/19622102
> 
> 
> 3. Would NOT have purchased SmartHome Insteon lighting. Nothing but trouble with the dimmers and they did not make an RF converter to control with Universal remote until years later....after I already switched out the broken switches with standard dimmers.



Too bad they had so many years (yes, YEARS) of crappy performance. In my experience they finally got it right. I've got it paired up with my URC MX6000/MSC400 and a tiny Intel Atom based PC doing complicated logic running HCA. It works great at a fraction of the price of others. Unfortunately, their 6 and 8 button keypads LOOK like a fraction of the price too. But I've only had one failure out of over 30 devices over 3 years.


----------



## wlkin

"Todays Tip: Nothing good has ever come from the phrase "Here, hold my beer while I try this." "

I should have thought of that before I climbed on that motorcycle quite a few years back. Interesting reading here and you folks sure have a lot of energy.


----------



## James L

Thanks for all of the great tips. I've already been making the list on what to do and what to avoid


----------



## bh285

HVAC is my biggest regret thus far. I did not have it adequately planned out. The room is not finished, but I can tell it's the weekest point in the sound proofing, and the 6" supply and return is not going to remove enough heat and moisture. I've added a second 6" dead vent with an inline fan, but again it's not the best solution regarding sound proofing.


More regrets to come as the project continues!


----------



## 0o0o0

3 Tips YOU MUST LIVE BY for doing a theatre room IN WALL HDMI INSTALLATION.


I have ran into all three problems in the past and realized the avoidances myself. I am prewarning everyone before you finish your theatre room.


Simple:


#1 - CONDUIT!.. 2 inch. Regardless how you cant afford it or dont want the hassle... Buy it and install it.



#2 - HDMI WALL PLATE with ***locking hdmi screw***



#3 - AFTER MARKET LOCKING BRACE with SCREW. FOR BOTH ENDS.


No matter how you are told one HDMI cable is better than the other.. IT ISNT. Cheap is the same as expensive. Gold plated.. sure why not. But the inside is plastic soft crappy cheap plastic and when that plastic starts to crack.. your done. How does it crack? well HDMI plugs lifespan is only on the amount of times you plug in and unplug.. my opinion from experience a pathetic 7 times. After that youve worn your HDMI cable down, bent a pin inside, or just merely weakened its strength.


Ive done jobs where a contractors stepped on the hdmi cable, and I was'nt notified.. only to find out when the theatre room was finished and components were plugged in.


Ive done jobs where a contractor has drilled a drywall screw through the cable.. ( yes the hdmi was AWAY and clear from any STANDARD drywall screw.. just so happened the contractors lackie worker thought a 3 inch screw could be added as he ran out of drywall screws)

Add that screw to the 5v current and yep.. you have an instant hdmi port shot on a brand new projector and video out on a reciever. YES THERE IS POWER in hdmi cords. If this pin is grounded.. voilia dead port at either end.



Remember.. annoyingly... KEEP your eyes on that HDMI EVERYDAY and inspect it EVERYDAY.



As for hdmi wall plate.. it will save you alot of aggrevation as the small 3 ft hdmi to your component will infact be damaged quickly.. but you can just unplug from wall and component and replace. Wall plates infact will allow you to shave off costs of a cheaper 25ft+ hdmi cable. Cause your only plugging it in ONCE to the plates. thats it.


Why to HDMI cables stop working?? the sockets are cheap and BADLY designed. Why are HDMI cables so easy to break?.. they are holding 14+ wires and the length of the hdmi adds to the wires lifespan.. the longer the easier it will be damaged, by its weight and lack of flexibility.


Anyhow If you ignore this post, and continue your installation without my simple advice above.. I GUARANTEE YOU this post will be like a GHOST HAUNTING YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY until you finally get your theatre room and hdmi cables replaced.


Goodluck and go have a shot of something. I know the feeling in your stomach right now if you are currently online seeking advice about inwall broken hdmi cables.


If your hdmi ports are dead.. You should have used Locking hdmi connectors!!


Admin if this post in in the wrong section.. please find the right section. I feel its the sole single most valuable time and money saving post on this site. Thanks.


Lastly tip on dead ports.. slightly slowly press your thumb on the cable upwards.. does it work again? yup probably.. its the worlds worst invention in av today ...hdmi. But when its done right.. its the worlds best AV experience. Cant live without it.... for now.


----------



## yamahaSHO

I ran conduit for my HDMI. It likely won't always be the standard from here on out










I will agree, I do not like HDMI. I'd rather it screw in like VGA/DVI.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *0o0o0* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Admin if this post in in the wrong section.. please find the right section. I feel its the sole single most valuable time and money saving post on this site. Thanks.



Um... Wow.


----------



## tony123

The fact that HDMI doesn't screw in is absurd and most clearly "designed failure".


One thing I'm learning close to the end is not to be paralized by fear during construction. All the talk of making sure this and that happen before closing walls, etc. It had me downright frozen. Truth is, I've opened walls up a few times now, and it's not bad. Both times it happened behind acoustical treatments, and noone will ever be the wiser.


Keep the pace up, and don't let fear slow you down. If yours is anything like my build, it'll take longer than expected. Your morale is one ingrediant you can't do without!


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Drew_V* /forum/post/19361453
> 
> 
> One thing I would do differently is focus more on air circulation and cooling! A sealed room with 7 people sitting in there for 3 hours with a 250-Watt projector bulb heating up the room definitely makes it uncomfortable in a hurry! And if you have equipment INSIDE the room (mine is fortunately outside the room), things are much, much worse.
> 
> 
> Whatever plans you might have to cool the room, double it. I've already had to add a second fan to my room and it's still warm.



I used a Zone system with a separate zone for the TR and equipment room with a remote thermostate sensor. You have to be careful that you have enough CF of air space for the furnance to handle or you could create a lot of noise from the furnace. All the equipment should be behind the TR in a separate room, good call Drew. I also used sound proof supply and return airs to quiet sound. Made a big difference.


If there is any way to put an extra supply and return air in the TR, that would help big time. You can also install dampers in your suppy lines, if they are accessible. This would help cut off the supply to rooms you do not need the conditioned air and send more to the TR. Check with a good HV guy that is up on zone systems. Heat/AC systems are all about balance between the duct size, furnace/blower size, ac output, and return air size. It is not rocket science, but you need someone who knows what they are talking about.


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *yamahaSHO* /forum/post/19676573
> 
> 
> I ran conduit for my HDMI. It likely won't always be the standard from here on out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will agree, I do not like HDMI. I'd rather it screw in like VGA/DVI.



I build homes and have gone to all blank boxes in all rooms. I run a "smurf" flexible pipe which allows for any changes the home owner wants, or any type of future wire changes. I also run smurf from the cable/sat/OTA ant outside connections into the utility room where the central connections are. All the cable companies are now using differnet type lines, cat 5, cat6, twin feeds, single feeds, fiberoptics, who knows what the H they are going to settle on. The smurf pipes allow for any changes at any time in the future, 50 years from now, etc. Good call on the conduit yamahasho.


Besides, all you young guys want to wifi and download everything. You guys keep it up and builders won't be putting ANY wires in a new house. I don't care what you say, there is no substitute for solid hard wiring.


----------



## Elill

Check to make sure the chaulk you're using is paintable.......that was a wasted day cutting it out


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *wlkin* /forum/post/19623230
> 
> 
> "Todays Tip: Nothing good has ever come from the phrase "Here, hold my beer while I try this." "
> 
> I should have thought of that before I climbed on that motorcycle quite a few years back. Interesting reading here and you folks sure have a lot of energy.



Hey, there was that one time in college when "hold my beer while I try this" was effective. I just can't remember what it effected.


I wouldn't do anything different from the last TR, although it's the 6th one I've done. Practice, practice, practice. Sooner or later, even us dumbies get it right.


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Elill* /forum/post/19708313
> 
> 
> Check to make sure the chaulk you're using is paintable.......that was a wasted day cutting it out



Hey Elill, red chalk is permanant and very difficult to cover, blue is not (I've had this discussion with several of my sub contractors). Red is used by concrete contactors so it will not dissapear when they are pouring "wet" concrete or when carpenters are snaping wall lines they do not want to loose due to rain. Use blue chalk or a light pencil mark and never pencil oak or any solid woods where it will show.


----------



## chris bryant




tleavit said:


> I'm 3 years into my HT now and heres some things I wish I had done at the time of construction:
> 
> 
> 1) Rear seat risers. I ended up building my own and its great but I still haven't found a person to put carpet on it at a decent price. Carpet wont match the floor.
> 
> 
> Put sand in the risers. I can not tell you how much difference this makes. I use SV subs (same ones Ralpf P has) and they are awsome when sitting on top of sand filled stages/platforms. The sand helps to obsorb the low freq vibration. Very little cost other than some hump time to get it into the TR. If your rear platform is 10" high, which should be the minimum rear height, fill the joist with 8 inches of sand, leaving about 1 to 2 inches of air space.
> 
> 
> Make sure you fasten the floor joist down to the concrete with 2x blocks and red heads, so they won't start to "float' when putting the weight of the sand in them. Seal the bottom facing the carpet with silicone from the inside before installing the sand. This will keep the sand from leaking out. (do not use sand on top of plywood/wood joist floors).


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/19461678
> 
> 
> I hear ya'. I'm having a door installed. The taper/mudder just left. I'm certainly not doing it!



Make sure the guy who tapes the drywall does NOT have to sand his mud. A good drywaller does not have to sand the entire wall. When you sand drywall mud, if you run the sand paper down the drywall, it will leave markes on the wall that will not be the same as the mud. This roughed up mark will show when you paint. It is called flashing. If you look close, most homes built in the last 15/20 years will have flashing, no matter how many gallons of paint you put on top. Bad labor.


I have found that curtains are the best sound insulator. They cover up bad drywall and paint, can cover up newly added wires, and make the TR look like the local movie theater (there is a reason why Lucus uses curtains in his approved theaters). They are MUCH cheaper and better than sound walls, and look great, IMHO.


Boy, did I have a bug up my you know what or what tonight. Hope this stuff helps.


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *0o0o0* /forum/post/19676204
> 
> 
> 3 Tips YOU MUST LIVE BY for doing a theatre room IN WALL HDMI INSTALLATION.
> 
> 
> Ive done jobs where a contractors stepped on the hdmi cable, and I was'nt notified.. only to find out when the theatre room was finished and components were plugged in.
> 
> Ive done jobs where a contractor has drilled a drywall screw through the cable..



Tell me about it, I've yelled, pleaded, begged, for years with subs, but seldom get a response. The GC can not be on the job 100% of the time. Buyers need to double check the GC and his crews. They mean well, and may be very hard working folks, but are not always guided by quality assurance and are never perfect.


----------



## Elill

Sorry, meant silicone.......picked up the gun, it had white stuff in it....."yeah that'll do".....it was the super non-stick kitchen bathroom variety.......total, royal, PITA


----------



## abellak




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chris bryant* /forum/post/19708305
> 
> 
> Besides, all you young guys want to wifi and download everything. You guys keep it up and builders won't be putting ANY wires in a new house. I don't care what you say, there is no substitute for solid hard wiring.



While working at a wireless deployment company I became (in)famous for pointing out that wire is the future of wireless.


Might not make sense, but if you have ever deployed or run large scale wireless networks (data, not cellular, though both are under the belt at this point) you'll understand. If you can run wire, run wire. If you can't figure out how you can. If that doesn't work, then go wireless, but be ready to accept it's limitations.


----------



## Sideofpotatos

Just finished reading this thread over the last week, AWESOME!! I am having a hard time deciding whether or not to even do a dedicated HT or not with the room I have to work with. It's a 14'x20' basement room that has 7.5' ceilings with the middle half that will need to be bumped down to about 6'8" for duct work that cannot go anywhere else. I also will absolutely need to put 3 doors in it because the stairway for the whole basement come right into it. Furthermore, our first baby is due this july so I can't be exactly sure where my motivations are going to lie.


On the other hand, I have ~$10k in speakers and audio equip I just put into storage in an effort to clean up the main living area upstairs, plus the acoustics up there stink!


I only want to do this if I can do it right. Do you guys think the room I have is going to be a hindrance and I would be best advised not to try and make this an HT room or does anyone feel that this room would make a perfectly wonderful HT?


Thanks guys!


----------



## miltimj

Depends what "do it right" means to you. Your space sounds like mine (size/height) that I'm about to bring my equipment down to in the next few weeks (from upstairs). I'm sure it'll be fine - better than the alternative of mixed living room/theater.


I will make one point about the baby, though - I've been remodeling for a decade or so now, and things go literally 5x slower once you have the child. So try and get as much done as possible now, or scale your plans to that timeline, or be prepared for it not to be done for several years.


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sideofpotatos* /forum/post/19817042
> 
> 
> Just finished reading this thread over the last week, AWESOME!! I am having a hard time deciding whether or not to even do a dedicated HT or not with the room I have to work with. It's a 14'x20' basement room that has 7.5' ceilings with the middle half that will need to be bumped down to about 6'8" for duct work that cannot go anywhere else. I also will absolutely need to put 3 doors in it because the stairway for the whole basement come right into it. Furthermore, our first baby is due this july so I can't be exactly sure where my motivations are going to lie.
> 
> 
> On the other hand, I have ~$10k in speakers and audio equip I just put into storage in an effort to clean up the main living area upstairs, plus the acoustics up there stink!
> 
> 
> I only want to do this if I can do it right. Do you guys think the room I have is going to be a hindrance and I would be best advised not to try and make this an HT room or does anyone feel that this room would make a perfectly wonderful HT?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys!



With a baby on the way I would strongly consider a nice multi-purpose media room instead of a dedicated HT. You would likely get more use out of it, and the WAF is almost always higher for that type of room than for a closed off, dedicated HT. You've got to try and imagine life with kids and plan the room accordingly. In particular, pay attention to sound proofing, as you'll have several years (or more) of the baby(ies?) sleeping a lot, and inevitably right when you'd like to be using the room for movies. And believe me - you don't want to be waking up sleeping babies any more than is necessary. You'll be sleep deprived enough as it is!










The day for a dedicated theater may come, but it may not be quite yet. Fortunately, that doesn't mean you can't have a very enjoyable HT/media/game room!


----------



## miltimj




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hanesian* /forum/post/19817424
> 
> 
> In particular, pay attention to sound proofing, as you'll have several years (or more) of the baby(ies?) sleeping a lot, and inevitably right when you'd like to be using the room for movies. And believe me - you don't want to be waking up sleeping babies any more than is necessary. You'll be sleep deprived enough as it is!



That reminds me. Whatever you do *Sideofpotatos*, make as MUCH noise as possible in their first couple months or so of life at home. You'll be glad you did. I remodeled our basement right under my daughter's room (just plywood between us) from the time she was 2 days old, and used all of the following right under her at various times prior to or during her sleeping: miter saw, framing nailer, table saw, grinder, recip saw, circular saw, framing hammer, sledge hammer, 22 caliber concrete nails, hammer drill through concrete.... I am absolutely dead serious. I had my hearing protection on, and she slept through the whole thing. She's now 26 months and has been able to sleep through anything.


Our second daughter.. not so much. Goes along with "what I would have done differently"... I was too busy taking care of the older daughter and doing some other things (not remodeling), and she's a lighter sleeper. I'm slowly ramping up the noise, though.


----------



## cavchameleon




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/19817490
> 
> 
> That reminds me. Whatever you do *Sideofpotatos*, make as MUCH noise as possible in their first couple months or so of life at home. You'll be glad you did. I remodeled our basement right under my daughter's room (just plywood between us) from the time she was 2 days old, and used all of the following right under her at various times prior to or during her sleeping: miter saw, framing nailer, table saw, grinder, recip saw, circular saw, framing hammer, sledge hammer, 22 caliber concrete nails, hammer drill through concrete.... I am absolutely dead serious. I had my hearing protection on, and she slept through the whole thing. She's now 26 months and has been able to sleep through anything.
> 
> 
> Our second daughter.. not so much. Goes along with "what I would have done differently"... I was too busy taking care of the older daughter and doing some other things (not remodeling), and she's a lighter sleeper. I'm slowly ramping up the noise, though.



Haaa! This is funny and I have to actually agree. We were much too quiet when our son was first born through his 2nd year, and not at 4 yo, a very light sleeper - a little 'creak' can wake him up. Good advice! Just live your 'normal' noises.


----------



## Sideofpotatos

Great info guys, thank you for taking the time to respond. Sound containment has been a major concern since the HT's inception so based on what you guys said which is in line with what I was already thinking, that I might be better off going with additional finished living space/media room that happens to be sound proof as well!


A concern I am still unsure of is that I love BIG sound and my audio equip can deliver that with ease. I am worried that cramming it all into a small 2000 cubit foot room will have plenty of negative sound quality effects, true?


And related to that, the PJ, which would be a virtual must for the room, would need to be mounted at a height low enough that I could bump it with my head (as I am 6'6" I would be the only one who would have to worry about it) but it seems that plenty on this thread have been displeased with their low PJ mounts.


It just seems like the room I have to work with has set constraints that have left many in here unhappy for their own circumstances and I would have to knowingly repeat those circumstances.


I know I am not directly lending any useful info as I have obviously not built a theater room but I thought this type of discussion would still lend to the theme this thread was created for: avoiding pitfalls/mistakes others have learned from.


One other question that I have not seen addressed in any of my much sound proof studying... what effect does soundproofing a room have on interior room acoustics, help or hurt? Do sound proof walls (sound clips/hat channel, 5/8 drywall-GG-5/8 drywall) serve as a substitute for acoustic treatments or would they still be needed?


----------



## hanesian

While not entirely discounting the whole 'make noise while the baby is young' theory entirely, I think you might be over estimating the whole whole cause & effect of that. I noticed that despite similar noise exposure in infancy, each of our kids seemed to have different noise tolerance as they grew older, and that if anything it seemed to vary according to their age more than anything - even those who woke early or easily as toddlers seemed to sleep through anything and everything as teens or young adults. Go figure.










In any case, soundproofing a HT while doing the construction at least gives you the _option_ of containing or minimizing the noise down the road if you want to ... and my money would be on the likelihood that there will be plenty of times when you - or your wife - will want to do that. Conversely, if you don't do it now and decide later that you want it, it will cost a lot more to retrofit it.


FWIW, I read somewhere here that one of the HT gurus - perhaps it was Dennis Erskine? - listed the top reasons why people stop using their HT regularly, and one of the top 3 reasons was the lack of sound containment.


As for your other question, sound proofing/containment is NOT a substitute for acoustic treatments within a room. Two different issues.


----------



## miltimj

If your audio components are high quality, they should be capable of producing quality sound in a smaller room as well as large. You just don't turn them up as loud.. 


There are two ideas that are typically used for the projector mounting (other than getting it at the right height.. in your case, as high as possible, which should be about 3-4" from the ceiling). The best method is a long throw projector that goes in a room behind the theater and projects through a hole. It's quieter, easier to direct cooling to it, and keeps it out of sight and out of the way. If it must be in the room, mount it directly above a row of seating, since you'll never be standing on the seat.


Soundproofing the walls helps with the room acoustics by providing mass and minimizing possible rattling/vibration, but it's really more about isolating noise for the theater (keeping other noises out and keeping the audio from escaping). It's definitely not a substitute for good acoustic treatments. A well soundproofed drywall box is still going to sound like an echo (not anechoic







) chamber.


----------



## Sideofpotatos

Great, I really appreciate the input. I will definitely include plans for acoustic treatments and/or curtains for the budget planning.


----------



## runback22




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *miltimj* /forum/post/19817490
> 
> 
> That reminds me. Whatever you do *Sideofpotatos*, make as MUCH noise as possible in their first couple months or so of life at home. You'll be glad you did. I remodeled our basement right under my daughter's room (just plywood between us) from the time she was 2 days old, and used all of the following right under her at various times prior to or during her sleeping: miter saw, framing nailer, table saw, grinder, recip saw, circular saw, framing hammer, sledge hammer, 22 caliber concrete nails, hammer drill through concrete.... I am absolutely dead serious. I had my hearing protection on, and she slept through the whole thing. She's now 26 months and has been able to sleep through anything.
> 
> 
> Our second daughter.. not so much. Goes along with "what I would have done differently"... I was too busy taking care of the older daughter and doing some other things (not remodeling), and she's a lighter sleeper. I'm slowly ramping up the noise, though.



I have to agree as well. My daughter had to spend the first week of her life in the Newborn ICU. It was never quiet in there since all the machines the babies were hooked up to kept beeping loud constantly. Throw in workers, parents, and the phones, and you have a pretty loud room. Anyways, for the first 6 months of her life i was afraid she was partly deaf because loud noises, really loud, would not wake her up. She slept through a noisy dave and busters meal, she has slept through a movie at home with loud bangs, pretty much anything.


----------



## cavedirt

Hi to everyone, just embarked on dedicated HT in basement, working in a bar also,

enjoy your commentary and insightful replies Im just finishing up prewire, insulation,

support nailers etc. Next step is drywall, somewhat apprehensive to take this step

as thinking about all the what-ifs, why didnt-I's etc.

chat soon.


cheers


----------



## bh285

@cavedirt, Start a build thread so we can follow and give advice. Just curious, do you work in a bar, or are you working a bar into your build... ?


----------



## cavedirt

oops......meant building a bar as well as theatre...will round up all necessary info..

thanks bh285


----------



## bh285

Cool. I'll keep an eye open for your build thread. Lots of pictures helps!


I'm working on my build as well, but have not started a thread myself.


----------



## thetootall

This is an awesome post guys, thanks for the advice!


Ill definitely get a 2" conduit going from my main level downstairs for cabling as well as one going from the media rack to the back wall in the basement - before I close off the space with drywall! Also it looks like HDMI covers are the way to go VS plugging the cables directly into my devices.


----------



## johnbomb

...Not make decisions on an empty stomach. Those decisions will be in the best interest of said empty stomach.


John


----------



## SPDSpappy

1) Like others have stated, room gets pretty warm with large parties & projector running: some sort of hvac add on (another complete zone/system -- very expensive from what I understand)

2) Place room under kid's rooms instead of mine -- even though the room is very soundproof, when system is cranked, wife complains when she's directly above it and hears the bass (even though it's not THAT loud upstairs -- a tv at regular volume drowns it out -- not that I'm bitter or anything

3) Use backing behind screen -- on certain movies with black background & white text (think Star Wars beginning scenes), I can see the text being lit through the screen (should I spray paint the OC 703 behind the wall black???)


----------



## Brad Horstkotte




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SPDSpappy* /forum/post/19935421
> 
> 
> should I spray paint the OC 703 behind the wall black???



Just cover with some cheap FR black fabric.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Different Next Time:


Build a false wall and utilize an AT screen like everyone told me too. (And I'll just pretend the wife gave me permission).


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *HuskerOmaha* /forum/post/19941703
> 
> 
> Different Next Time:
> 
> 
> Build a false wall and utilize an AT screen like everyone told me too. (And I'll just pretend the wife gave me permission).



Yes. AT's are great for so many reasons and as projectors get brighter they become more practical. I went the AT route and am very pleased.


----------



## DIYHomeTheater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Screens
> 
> ---- Screen too big for the room. Screen widths should never be more than 80% of the room width. Keep the screen at least 3' off the floor (if not more) and don't mount it within inches of the ceiling. Big is not always better.



Isn't 3' somewhat subjective? Does it not depend on viewing distance? If you are 15' away from screen, you might be able to get away with 2' off the floor. (I know, you'd need a huge screen and a light cannon, but let's assume you can get that)


----------



## nathan_h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DIYHomeTheater* /forum/post/19975212
> 
> 
> Isn't 3' somewhat subjective? Does it not depend on viewing distance? If you are 15' away from screen, you might be able to get away with 2' off the floor. (I know, you'd need a huge screen and a light cannon, but let's assume you can get that)



Among other things 2' off the floor means you better have an AT screen and at least the center speaker behind it. A speaker at two feet off the floor is typically compromised. And there better be room aside the screen for the left/right, or an AT screen with them behind, or... again, a compromise on sound.


But perhaps more important -- since one assumes one has an extra large screen because image is what matters -- if you like to recline when watching a movie, you'll possibly have trouble comfortably seeing the bottom of the screen when it's that low...


----------



## Dennis Erskine

Yes .... 3' can be somewhat subjective; but, OTOH, it is also not incorrect considering the eyes are generally 42" AFF when seated. Viewing angle is the criteria. That will generally place the center of the screen at about 10 - 12 degrees above eye level for the first row. You have more than two rows? ... then things change a bit.


----------



## tony123

My screen is huge by most standards. 168" wide 2.35 in a 208" wide room. I was about to put a comment in that Dennis's recommendation of not exeeding 80% of the room width could be stretched. Then I did the math.







I'm right at 80%.


----------



## DIYHomeTheater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes .... 3' can be somewhat subjective; but, OTOH, it is also not incorrect considering the eyes are generally 42" AFF when seated. Viewing angle is the criteria. That will generally place the center of the screen at about 10 - 12 degrees above eye level for the first row. You have more than two rows? ... then things change a bit.



Thanks. I think that it also depends on viewing distance. Your 10-12 degree criterion is appropriate and I think that one should stick with that. As you sit further back, the screen can drop a bit while still being in that viewing angle range.


----------



## DIYHomeTheater




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tony123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My screen is huge by most standards. 168" wide 2.35 in a 208" wide room. I was about to put a comment in that Dennis's recommendation of not exeeding 80% of the room width could be stretched. Then I did the math.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm right at 80%.



I am planning a nearly identical screen. Which screen and projector do you use? What's the screen height from the floor and your viewing distance? Thanks


----------



## tony123

DIY, I don't want to take this thread off topic, so please PM me or visit my construction thread if you have any other questions. I'd be happy to talk.










Briefly, I have an AE4000 with the SeymourXD material. 20" off the floor and seating distances of 12', 19' (primary seating) and 24' (bar).


----------



## btinindy

What I would do differently...I had roughly a 15.0' wide area for my HT. I made a built-in for this area. I was short sighted on additional cabling that I had not considered (LAN cable, front height speaker cable, etc.). I either should have added this in the first place or made a cable tunnel in the bottom of the built-in cabinets with access to more easily and cleanly run these additional cables. It took a lot of "Fishing" and frustration to add these after the fact and took a lot of work to hide the cables.


----------



## erkq

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* 
Yes .... 3' can be somewhat subjective; but, OTOH, it is also not incorrect considering the eyes are generally 42" AFF when seated. Viewing angle is the criteria. That will generally place the center of the screen at about 10 - 12 degrees above eye level for the first row. You have more than two rows? ... then things change a bit.
I have heard the eyes should be 1/3 up the screen. That would give similar results to yours at certain viewing distances. I'm too lazy to do the math. In any case, that puts my 10' wide 16:9 screen 2' up off the floor. While it works well with my seating and a 15" riser for the second row, I am considering raising it to make the front row better suited to tall people. The 3' height may be a good compromise for me.


----------



## R Harkness

I prefer eye level to the center of the screen if possible. That presents the most "correct" and believable image geometry to the eye. All the perspective cues are captured directly on by the camera. The more off-axis you place yourself, vertically or horizontally, the more you introduce tell-tale shifts in perspective that tell your mind "I'm looking at a flat image."


I had a pretty complicated system for trying to achieve that (since my image size varies, as does my image center to some degree). But I got pretty close.


Occasionally someone comes in the room and says "wow, your screen is pretty low" since many people are used to looking up at a screen to some degree. But once they sit down the angle suddenly makes sense and they go "Oh...now I get it, this feels perfect!"


----------



## stepyourgameup

Make sure my outlets on the front wall are level with each other. Pay someone to do the drywall.


----------



## nathan_h




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> pay someone to do the drywall.



+1


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nathan_h* /forum/post/20156737
> 
> 
> +1



I just can't justify paying someone $800 to do the drywall.


----------



## Iusteve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20156893
> 
> 
> I just can't justify paying someone $800 to do the drywall.



Unless your good at it yourself then it is money WELL spent and the professional results in such a little time frame cant be beat.


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iusteve* /forum/post/20156970
> 
> 
> Unless your good at it yourself then it is money WELL spent and the professional results in such a little time frame cant be beat.



Very true, however, when the lights go down nobody will see the drywall. I would rather put the money into a new projector or an Epik Empire.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20156893
> 
> 
> I just can't justify paying someone $800 to do the drywall.



You can if you've ever done it yourself. If you haven't done it yourself I'd get someone to mud it for you at least. But that's just me.


----------



## hanesian




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20152466
> 
> 
> Pay someone to do the drywall.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20156893
> 
> 
> I just can't justify paying someone $800 to do the drywall.



Do you typically disagree with yourself like this?


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/20158379
> 
> 
> You can if you've ever done it yourself. If you haven't done it yourself I'd get someone to mud it for you at least. But that's just me.



No but my dad has done it many times.


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hanesian* /forum/post/20158438
> 
> 
> Do you typically disagree with yourself like this?



The topic is "What I would do different Next Time" not "What I wish I would have done different this time."


NEXT time I will justify the cost.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20158473
> 
> 
> No but my dad has done it many times.



Cool! I'd take advantage of that! Nice father/son thing too... and as I'm sure he reminds you, "you might learn something from your old man..."


----------



## Iusteve




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20157268
> 
> 
> Very true, however, when the lights go down nobody will see the drywall.



While this "may" be true good luck trying to sell that house with that shady drywall job. May I suggest showing the house in the dark with the lights off??


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Iusteve* /forum/post/20158596
> 
> 
> While this "may" be true good luck trying to sell that house with that shady drywall job. May I suggest showing the house in the dark with the lights off??



They would probably be more concerned with the fact that the basement windows are covered by drywall and there is a permanent riser in the room.


----------



## jtsony

My first of i am sure many...I was very excited to have the my new hd250 installed however,, after the wife saw the "big black box" sticking down from her pretty clean ceiling, we are now having to move it! I will try to post pictures later. The black extension pole drops the pj down 10" (from 8'6" ceiling ) below the soffit. It does stick out a bunch. So I am moving the unit forward a foot so it will be right on the soffit.


For those new to projection systems, I would be sure during design phase that the bigness of the pj is considered. It is killing me to have to wait another week before we can fire it up!


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtsony* /forum/post/20177587
> 
> 
> My first of i am sure many...I was very excited to have the my new hd250 installed however,, after the wife saw the "big black box" sticking down from her pretty clean ceiling, we are now having to move it! I will try to post pictures later. The black extension pole drops the pj down 10" (from 8'6" ceiling ) below the soffit. It does stick out a bunch. So I am moving the unit forward a foot so it will be right on the soffit.
> 
> 
> For those new to projection systems, I would be sure during design phase that the bigness of the pj is considered. It is killing me to have to wait another week before we can fire it up!



So, then, I gather that under the heading of "What I'd do differently next time", your short version would be "Don't get married."?


I kid, I kid. Wives are great.


----------



## Belcherwm

I built my theater 7 or 8 years ago and was all set to go LCD. Had everything measured out for that little box. Towards the end of construction a Barco CRT fell in my lap and is still on the ceiling today. More than 3 ft long and weighs about 170 pounds. But I'm ready when I finally upgrade my projector!


----------



## DIYHomeTheater

I got this idea after talking to my flooring installer and deciding to put new speaker wire for an 11.2 system AFTER the walls were up:

Use 12 gauge speaker wire as spacers to lift the baseboards up by about a 1/4" from the floor when you install the baseboards. This is best done before the carpet is in. This space will allow you to stuff speaker wire in the gap and run it all around the perimeter of your theater without unsightly wires running on walls/ceilings.


----------



## cybrsage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *0o0o0* /forum/post/19676204
> 
> 
> But the inside is plastic soft crappy cheap plastic and when that plastic starts to crack.. your done. How does it crack? well HDMI plugs lifespan is only on the amount of times you plug in and unplug.. my opinion from experience a pathetic 7 times. After that youve worn your HDMI cable down, bent a pin inside, or just merely weakened its strength.



While I will agree HDMI has its share of stupid bad issues which could have easily been resolved when it was designed, I have to wonder what you are doing to your cables to make them fail so quickly.


I have been using HDMI in my HTPC since it first appeared a few years back. Since a HTPC is simply a PC built for a specific task, I have moved, opened, upgraded, etc, the HTPC at least two dozen times in the last few years. This means I have removed the HDMI cable at least two dozen times. I have never had one fail.


There are two tricks with HDMI connectors. The first is to go on and off in an easy, level, straight path. If you twist or angle the connector it will surely fail quickly. Just be slow and careful and level...and you will have no problems. The second is to recognize that approaching it with dread and disgust will cause you to greatly increase your odds of damaging the connector. Think of it like doing any work while angry...your odds of failure greatly increase.


Conduit is a great idea, though. Future proof the path!


----------



## cybrsage




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tony123* /forum/post/19347581
> 
> 
> I just made one such change in my room. Getting the equipment rack out of the theater! It's been said many, many times on this thread, and I'll repeat it. I've now had the equipment in an adjacent room for only a week, but it has immediately changed the space in several ways. Mainly, it changed the character of the room. It lost some of that "home entertainment" feel. You know, a room with a big screen and a stack of lit up boxes.
> 
> 
> Keep this one high on your priority list.



I am going to put my gear under the front of the stage. Air will be piped in and out of there for cooling, and the front of the stage will be dark frosted plexiglass lift up doors. This allows for easy access to the BR player, line of sight for the IR remote, etc. Also, I have no place to put an external equipment rack...unless I want to lose the space for the popcorn maker and minifridge!


----------



## lovemovies!

? -for the best sound result, how high can the front speakers be? And if you put speakers inset next to the screeen how far should they be from the screens edge.

We are just planning now.


----------



## golfnz34me




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Belcherwm* /forum/post/20179717
> 
> 
> ... Towards the end of construction a Barco CRT fell in my lap ...



Ouch!! That must've really hurt!










Next time make sure to secure it to the studs, and not just use drywall anchors!










Mike


----------



## jtsony




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq* /forum/post/20178430
> 
> 
> So, then, I gather that under the heading of "What I'd do differently next time", your short version would be "Don't get married."?
> 
> I kid, I kid. Wives are great.



It took a while but you can see what happened here and in this case The Wife was right...the post sticking down from the ceiling did not give me much more distance to the screen than mounting onto the cove ceiling...We have enjoyed this set up.


----------



## cybrsage

MUCH better location. Since it was almost at the point anyway, I concur with your wife's demand. You married a smart woman...keep her!


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtsony* /forum/post/20404691
> 
> 
> It took a while but you can see what happened here and in this case The Wife was right...the post sticking down from the ceiling did not give me much more distance to the screen than mounting onto the cove ceiling...We have enjoyed this set up.



Good deal. My fiance' is a good HT instigator too. My pj has been gone for calibration and she really misses it. She's ready to write the vendor herself to get it back!


----------



## wilsonj

What I would do different. Sounds pretty obvious, but leave wires longer than you need. A couple times I have ended up with not as much cable as I would like, even though I thought I had enough run.


----------



## roknrol

+1 ^


I will second that. When I was pulling wires, I thought I was being careful and not wasting wire. But later I realized that I was making things much tougher by not leaving extra "play" in my wire lengths. Professional electricians do generate a lot of waste, but they're a whole lot faster in getting the job done because they're not fighting short wire runs.


----------



## npc2396

Still finishing up my theater but already found a few things. When you are ready to paint don't go to Lowes and ask for the blackest paint they can mix without checking a sample. They said "Very Black" was the blackest so I happily grabbed two gallons of flat and painted the ceiling and screen wall. The next day I went to get a gallon of satin to do the trim and asked for the blackest black again and the guy said "dark Kettle Black" was the blackest. At this point I knew I was going to have an issue. I called home and checked the can a told him to mix "very black" as I already had it painted. I pulled the two samples and sure enough "very black" had a strong blue base. I used the satin "very black" on the trim and finished up but the blue was becoming more pronounced especially after I added the DMD black sound panels. It bothered me enough that I went to home depot and picked up two more gallons a "mouse ears" in flat and another gallon in satin for the trim. 6 gallons of paint and 300 feet of tape later and I am tired but happy. Lesson learned, always check the sample...


I am amazed at how much better the mouse ears absorb the camera flash compared to the "very black"


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tony123* /forum/post/19347581
> 
> 
> There's no substitute for living with something. Well, having professional experience is, but we don't all have that.
> 
> 
> I just made one such change in my room. Getting the equipment rack out of the theater! It's been said many, many times on this thread, and I'll repeat it. I've now had the equipment in an adjacent room for only a week, but it has immediately changed the space in several ways. Mainly, it changed the character of the room. It lost some of that "home entertainment" feel. You know, a room with a big screen and a stack of lit up boxes.
> 
> 
> Keep this one high on your priority list.



I could not agree more. I build homes and have done 5 TR's so far, each being an improvement from the previous one. I use Logitech's RF remote and put the equipment in a separate room. A separate room makes it easier to control the heat and lighting.


Mistakes:

I forgot a conduit to the secondary "in room" projector location.

I should have built (2) 45 degree walls at rear corners of room for better sound deflection.

I should have installed the return air high rather than low on the wall or into the ceiling.


Note that I did not have the curtains up at this time, but I strongly suggest heavy dark curtains on side walls, especially if it is a retro, for an inexpensive way of improving sound quality and control.


----------



## chris bryant

Finished product:


----------



## Exterous




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *roknrol* /forum/post/20444399
> 
> 
> +1 ^
> 
> 
> I will second that. When I was pulling wires, I thought I was being careful and not wasting wire. But later I realized that I was making things much tougher by not leaving extra "play" in my wire lengths. Professional electricians do generate a lot of waste, but they're a whole lot faster in getting the job done because they're not fighting short wire runs.



+2 Fortunately it was only two outlets that I cut a bit short but it was a pain to get my outlets wired


----------



## Haps

I'd look at my riser height a lot more carefully. I used calculators etc and came up with a riser height. But when loading the room next thing I know I'm lifting my screen(higher then desirable for first row) in order to allow back row to have unobstructed view.


And possibly looking at a solution to side speakers sticking out of wall. They're just waiting for someone to walk into them.


Planned lighting for riser before hand. Dark room. Dark carpet. Stairs are hard too see. And retrofitting after the fact sucks when I could have implemented whatever I wanted.


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Haps* /forum/post/20638080
> 
> 
> I'd look at my riser height a lot more carefully. I used calculators etc and came up with a riser height. But when loading the room next thing I know I'm lifting my screen(higher then desirable for first row) in order to allow back row to have unobstructed view.
> 
> 
> And possibly looking at a solution to side speakers sticking out of wall. They're just waiting for someone to walk into them.
> 
> 
> Planned lighting for riser before hand. Dark room. Dark carpet. Stairs are hard too see. And retrofitting after the fact sucks when I could have implemented whatever I wanted.



How high is your riser?


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Haps* /forum/post/20638080
> 
> 
> Planned lighting for riser before hand. Dark room. Dark carpet. Stairs are hard too see. And retrofitting after the fact sucks when I could have implemented whatever I wanted.



I just tucked a rope ling under the lip all the way around. Simple. Looks cool. Effective. Do it on the stairs too. Keeps klutzes from braining themselves in the dark.


----------



## nathan_h

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Haps*
I'd look at my riser height a lot more carefully. I used calculators etc and came up with a riser height. But when loading the room next thing I know I'm lifting my screen(higher then desirable for first row) in order to allow back row to have unobstructed view.


And possibly looking at a solution to side speakers sticking out of wall. They're just waiting for someone to walk into them.


Planned lighting for riser before hand. Dark room. Dark carpet. Stairs are hard too see. And retrofitting after the fact sucks when I could have implemented whatever I wanted.
Similarly important is riser depth. I went with five feet and most chairs want six feet of space to fully recline.


----------



## kromkamp

My first mistake - not using larger jack studs (ie. 2x8's) for my door frame to accommodate a)the double drywall, and b)the 2" of extra width for my acoustic treatments. This is only important if you want a standard projection hinge to let you be able to open the door 180-degrees (ie. flat against the wall). Luckily I can still cut the drywall back and replace them without too much pain....


----------



## PeterB123

What would I do different when building my HT?


1. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.

2. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.

3. I would have wired my HT for transducers. Having to go back and pull these was a PITA. I think I wasted around 5 hours or more this weekend pulling them and another day itching at the insulation in my skin. Pulling these wires before the wallboard was up would have made life easier. Additionally, I would have been able to install the transducers six months ago when they arrived.

4. Bought a bigger house with a larger unfinished room to build me HT. Actually, since I wanted to be on the water, it wasn't an option, but a 9' x 17' room is as small as you can get for a HT, IMHO. It works, but barely.

5. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.


----------



## stepyourgameup

Quote:

Originally Posted by *PeterB123* 
What would I do different when building my HT?


1. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.

2. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.

3. I would have wired my HT for transducers. Having to go back and pull these was a PITA. I think I wasted around 5 hours or more this weekend pulling them and another day itching at the insulation in my skin. Pulling these wires before the wallboard was up would have made life easier. Additionally, I would have been able to install the transducers six months ago when they arrived.

4. Bought a bigger house with a larger unfinished room to build me HT. Actually, since I wanted to be on the water, it wasn't an option, but a 9' x 17' room is as small as you can get for a HT, IMHO. It works, but barely.

5. I would have researched on the internet and found this site.
It's not small, it's intimate.


----------



## PeterB123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20655245
> 
> 
> It's not small, it's intimate.



lol


Well, I guess since 50% of the time, it's just me in there (awesome), it's not too bad.


----------



## elmalloc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *npc2396* /forum/post/20530497
> 
> 
> I am amazed at how much better the mouse ears absorb the camera flash compared to the "very black"



Are you speaking of Behr's Disney Mouse Ears paint?


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *elmalloc* /forum/post/20655965
> 
> 
> Are you speaking of Behr's Disney Mouse Ears paint?



Also, why don't you paint your walls dark also?


----------



## stepyourgameup

Don't assume that you can easily pull the slack out of Romex thru an outlet box after drywall is up. I ended up having to cut the box with a utility knife and Drimmel to get the Romex to pull all the way out. Instead, either go ahead and wire the outlets or tie off the Romex and stuff it in the box.


----------



## npc2396

Yes , Disney mouse ears.


The gray is actually very dark but the flash is really lighting it up. With just the 4 - 4" can lights on the grey is almost indistinguishable from the blue.


----------



## JustMike

Great advice! The third contractor I brought in to look at my theater space said, "Why don't you rotate everything 90 degrees and take out that wall?" The result is that I went from a cramped 15x18 foot space to an 18x24-foot space that will eventually seat 11.


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DavidK442* /forum/post/20774025
> 
> 
> One thing I *don't* regret (not really the purpose of this thread but what the heck) is the decision to not sound proof. I see the extent to which some go to keep sound in and out and wonder if it is really worth it. Loss of space, money, time. Often more effort goes into sound proofing then anything else; multiple layers of drywall, sound clips, green glue, solid doors, magical forcefields! I suppose it is one of those large details that separates the good from the great but I have never regretted not doing it. When the family is asleep I turn the volume down a bit, when they are awake I turn it up. Besides, I think I would feel a bit uneasy if I couldn't hear the kids killing each other.



My only concern with sound proofing was to keep the HVAC noise out of the theater, which is in the next room. I didn't put in an air return in the theater but there is one next to the theater door in the other room and I cut a 1/2" off the bottom of the door to allow air to go under. I hope that it will suffice or I will have to put in a dead vent or some such.


----------



## chris bryant




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *stepyourgameup* /forum/post/20774102
> 
> 
> My only concern with sound proofing was to keep the HVAC noise out of the theater, which is in the next room. I didn't put in an air return in the theater but there is one next to the theater door in the other room and I cut a 1/2" off the bottom of the door to allow air to go under. I hope that it will suffice or I will have to put in a dead vent or some such.



You will regret not having a return vent in the TR, even if it is a small room. Too much body heat build up. Undercutting the door does not work well even for a small bedroom. Try using an insulated rolled duct for the return air and try to keep the run as long as possible. The return air duct does not cause as much noise as the supply air. That should be an insulated duct as shown in my previous post's here, if possible. Or at least try to use 1" rolled fiberglass insulation as best as possible.


Add a sub 2x4 insulated wall between the furnace room and the TR, and/or add 1/2" sound board, found at Home Depot, on the furnace side of the TR wall. Lay some carpert down in the funace floor area, which will help with sound deflection from the furnace motor and ducts.


I disagree that sound proofing does not make a difference. There is a reason why recording studios use "magical force fields"







to improve sound quality. It is more about sound deflection. Using insulated drapes on the side walls is an inexpensive way to help sound quality and is a cheap way to give a home TR an expensive professional look. Again, there is a reason why Theaters use them. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chris bryant* /forum/post/20774275
> 
> 
> You will regret not having a return vent in the TR, even if it is a small room. Too much body heat build up. Undercutting the door does not work well even for a small bedroom. Try using an insulated rolled duct for the return air and try to keep the run as long as possible. The return air duct does not cause as much noise as the supply air. That should be an insulated duct as shown in my previous post's here, if possible. Or at least try to use 1" rolled fiberglass insulation as best as possible.
> 
> 
> Add a sub 2x4 insulated wall between the furnace room and the TR, and/or add 1/2" sound board, found at Home Depot, on the furnace side of the TR wall. Lay some carpert down in the funace floor area, which will help with sound deflection from the furnace motor and ducts.
> 
> 
> I disagree that sound proofing does not make a difference. There is a reason why recording studios use "magical force fields"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to improve sound quality. It is more about sound deflection. Using insulated drapes on the side walls is an inexpensive way to help sound quality and is a cheap way to give a home TR an expensive professional look. Again, there is a reason why Theaters use them. Just my 2 cents.



I can tie into the return run if I need to. I guess I will do so if it is a problem.


----------



## JustMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *DavidK442* /forum/post/20773991
> 
> 
> Third time the charm they say. 15X18 cramped? One man's hovel is another man's palace I suppose. Then again I would never have a need for 11 seats as typically it is just the family who uses the room. No link to your theater build?



Heh, yeah, 15x18 would have been okay, but I really wanted two rows of seats, and I couldn't make the geometry work out so that both rows would have good line of sight, good image sizes, and so forth.


I'm in the process of writing the first two long-winded postings for what will be my build thread. The theater construction itself got sidelined by larger renovation of the house, but it's truly underway at last! Look for "The Money Pit Theater", starting soon on an AVS build thread near you.










[Edit: Shucks. It looks like somebody else did a previous build called "The Money Pit". I'll have to come up with a different name...]


----------



## Warren_G

I too agree with a certain degree of soundproofing. I dont buy into the diminshing return value of all the steps that some take in soundproofing their room, but there are 2 valuable characteristics of taking some steps. Reduced noise floor, which increases your dynamic range in the theater as well as reducing distracting outside sound. And second, it allows you to use your theater at a higher volume at times when you may not be able to, such as when people are sleeping somewhere in the house.


My soundproofing strategy in my theater was less about hightech materials and methods like GG, DD, etc. and more about decoupling from the floor above and wall beside the room. It didnt cost much extra to do it this way, but the result is that I can lose myself in my room without bothering others or being disturbed by outside sounds.


----------



## Arialis

MY sub shakes the room and I can hear the front wall and ceiling rattle when the sub kicks in. The HT is almost ten years old and I am so debating doing the front wall and ceiling to address this issue....


But Id have to shut down the theater and I dont wanna do that lol..


----------



## 95silverstallion

Im only part way through my build but I will tel you one thing that would be a no brainer for me...Dont buy alot of lumber at once and dont get it delivered. If youre a weekend only project person like me then only buy the lumber you will use for that weekend. It sucks making a trip to the lumber yard everytime you need lumber but...I had about 150 studs delivered and over the course of a month about 50 studs were IMO unusable.


Ive been much happier getting 30 or so studs and using them up over the weekend. This way I can pick through at the store for staright ones and use them immediately. No junk wood delivered and no time for the studs to lay around and warp.


----------



## Mfusick




----------



## stepyourgameup




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick* /forum/post/21744746



That's what I call a kitchen remodel.


Who is that dime piece in the picture?


----------



## mrci10

If I could to do things over again, I would've made more money!


That way I could've had the theater designed first then designed the house, then built the house and purchased all the equipment/furnishings all at the same time.


I've been purchasing audio/video toys for several years, trading up as I go along. I bought what I thought was the best theater speaker system--Paradigm Signature Series 8. Only to later learn that the very tall (48”) tower mains will be sitting on top of a 12" stage—With the tweaters at the top of these tall main speakers they will be almost in line with the top of the screen--and way over the top of my head/ears. Also, there will be no way to place the center channel tweater in line with the main tweaters.


Maybe this massive speaker system wasn’t the best system to place behind a movie screen.


----------



## cme4brain

You know what? I completely agree with post about not spending $$$ on sound proofing. I have saved big $$$ by not doing the same thing. So what if the fam hears some home theater sounds once in a whole? Like we haven't heard kids yelling, playing their music, playing their games? The money is better spent, for me, one better speakers!


----------



## JustMike




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *cme4brain* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know what? I completely agree with post about not spending $$$ on sound proofing. I have saved big $$$ by not doing the same thing. So what if the fam hears some home theater sounds once in a whole? Like we haven't heard kids yelling, playing their music, playing their games? The money is better spent, for me, one better speakers!



The trick with soundproofing IMO is to keep extraneous noise out of the theater. I, like you, wasn't concerned about keeping theater sounds from leaking out. Everybody's situations will differ of course.


----------



## 95silverstallion

I had all my audiostuff in my regular living room and would crank movies up loud with a 4yo and a 1yo in bed. They never wake up front it. Im not concerned about the new dedicated theater in the basement being noisy.


----------



## nickbuol

I am so glad that I focused time, energy, and money on soundproofing. Some of the big "bang for your buck" stuff really isn't that expensive in the scheme of things. I have a great location in my basement, but it is right below our master bedroom. There are many times that I want to stay up late and watch something, and my wife wants to go to bed. Since I enjoy movies a little loud, the soundproofing let's me still enjoy my theater without keeping my wife awake. It isn't perfect, but perfection would have cost significantly more. To add to the benefit, it also greatly improved my sound floor. Now unwanted sounds from outside my theater don't get in. It is so nice and quiet in there, even if a big truck drives by (thinking slow plows in winter), or someone is outside the theater in my game room playing pinball or arcade games and being "loud" they don't impact the movie experience.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> You know what? I completely agree with post about not spending $$$ on sound proofing. I have saved big $$$ by not doing the same thing. So what if the fam hears some home theater sounds once in a whole? Like we haven't heard kids yelling, playing their music, playing their games? The money is better spent, for me, one better speakers!



You know what? That's not the reason for sound isolation (although in some families it is). The quietest sound on a sound track is 22dB. The average ambient background noise floor in a quiet residence is 33 to 35 dB. To overcome the noise floor, that's a 6 times increase. Playing a 22dB sound at 34dB is no big deal. Playing normal dialog six times louder is a big deal and not very comfortable. Playing a 105 dB peak six times louder can be painful ... can result in temporary hearing loss ... the good news is, it is very likely your amplifiers will clip or your speakers become damaged so you don't have to worry about it anymore. Bad room + good speakers = bad sound. Just the way it is.


Budget, physical constraints, etc. may get in the way of sound isolation efforts but you're better off with a better room and less expensive equipment than the alternative.


----------



## chinaclipper




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine* /forum/post/21790231
> 
> 
> Budget, physical constraints, etc. may get in the way of sound isolation efforts but you're better off with a better room and less expensive equipment than the alternative.



Dennis I have said this for YEARS.

I spent a few more dollars on the room, vs speakers, and I have NEVER regretted it.

Newbies sit in my theater, and absolutely RAVE, then I have so much fun when they try to guess how much I paid for speakers. (and they ALWAYS guess WAAAAAY high). I usually wait until they guess like $20k or more. (and they ALWAYS do







) Truth? $400 system "speakers-in-a-box"


FLOORS them...."No way!!" and "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!"

Then I show 'em.


Point? IMHO, it is the room design/acoustic treatment that gives the best "bang for your buck", NOT expensive speakers.


----------



## cdika17

I pulled these from Jautor's build thread, some really good points, hope he does not mind.


"LESSON/MISTAKE: Having the risers built-in as part of the structure means it's not possible to undo the theater and turn the space into something else. Not that I would ever do that, but it could be a turn-off to potential future owners. While it would be possible to fill in the front of the room, lowering the rear riser would be a huge challenge."


"LESSON: At the time, Dennis' AVS-special design service wasn't available, and having shopped for other design services (which I deemed too expensive at the "basic" service level for the amount of additional expertise I would gain), I didn't use any of them. Having seen Dennis' design work here, and for the price he offers the AVS service, I *HOPE* that if I was starting from scratch today I would be smart enough to send him a check! I did get a lot of free advice from industry experts and manufacturers by visiting them at CEDIA, and of course, reading lots and lots of AVSforum threads. "


"MISTAKE: Having the risers built-in as part of the structure means it's not possible to undo the theater and turn the space into something else. Not that I would ever do that, but it could be a turn-off to potential future owners. While it would be possible to fill in the front of the room, lowering the rear riser would be a huge challenge.


MISTAKE: I also made the risers 5'9" deep, also using some chair dimensions (see LESSON above). In the final theater, there's just enough space for the Berklines to recline fully. "


"IF I DID IT OVER: I'd have made the room 17'x 24', adding a foot of width (6" to each aisle), with at least 1' longer to the front, and 6" more on each riser. But I would have stuck with my final seating plan. If I had the room up front, I might have put in a small stage, but I don't consider the lack of a stage as a mistake, either."


"MISTAKE: Plan all your speaker locations before the room shell is constructed. When I built the house, I had a space in the back for a pull-out rack, so rack access wasn't going to be a problem. And I made the rack area large enough for a small countertop - likely for a popcorn machine. But I didn't think about where the rear speakers needed to be. Turned out one of them really needed to be in the middle of that cabinet area. If I placed the speaker column inside of the cabinet location, the two rear speakers would be only 4' apart. Nope, speaker placement wins, cabinet goes away. In hindsight, that cabinet was unnecessary. Popcorn machine is hot, noisy and smelly (all in a good way!) - and is therefore better off outside the theater. I had a lot of U space in my rack, so I added a drawer there for remote/accessory storage, which works great."


"IF I DID IT OVER: The rack area will later be drywalled with everything else. But the AX-S pull-out rack is intended to be used with "millwork". I should have finished the rack recess area with a site-built cabinetry box. The small, drywall covered space isn't perfectly square/flush, so when I pull the rack out, it tends to rub on one corner, which makes me get out the touch-up paint. A cabinet could have been made easily to the proper dimensions, and slipped into place. I purchased the Gasket/Guide kit for the rack to fill any gaps - turns out I don't have any gaps, it's too tight a fit even for the guides!"


"MISTAKE: (This is the big one, which is great, because it didn't really impact the final outcome) aka:


IF I DID IT OVER: The columns, all 6 of them, were then framed out to be covered in drywall. This meant that the interior of the column is outside the treated theater space, and therefore all the things penetrating it are creating holes in the theater. Little things like the step and sconce light electrical boxes. And, um, that in-wall 6"x12" speaker. D'oh.


In hindsight, those columns should have been built post-drywall, with only small holes for electrical and low-volt. Thenn the speakers would have been enclosed within the room. The result is that as they are, a lot of surround sound can be heard in the attic space on one side of the theater, and it's also transmitted from the rears to the stairwell behind the room. The good news is that because the theater is placed away from bedrooms, and it's only the 'surround' channels, it had no real negative consequences for me. I may box in the side columns from the attic side to reduce transmission there, but it's only a nitpick for me. But your milage would definitely vary...


The same is true, to a lesser extent, of the ceiling framing. The can lights also penetrate the room shell, not a post-sheetrock soffit. But again, this is a second floor, the attic above is filled with blown insulation, and is geographically isolated from the rest of the house. In the end, with music playing at high volume from all channels, I can barely hear the transmission outside, and not from the bedrooms. Most of the sound that does make it into the adjacent gameroom is coming through the solid-core theater door (you can feel it vibrate)."


"IF I DID IT OVER: I would have used two separate PowerBridge inlets behind the rack, one going to the projector location, the other to the front of the room (for speakers/subs/screen). The reason is that if I wanted later to install a UPS in the rack for the projector, the way it's wired now, the subwoofer and everything else at the front of the room would also be on the battery backup. Had I wired separate inlets, I could have run the projector to the UPS, and the screen wall outlets just to the conditioner/surge protector. Now, this is probably not a big deal as it is, as "run time on UPS battery" is not the goal here."


"IF I DID IT OVER: Since the GrafikEye will be installed in the entry hallway, I decided to add 2 wall stations where one would expect the light switch(es) to be in the room. One just inside the room, and another next to the rack. In reality, with the remote control working well, I rarely use those wallstations, and at ~$200/each probably would have skipped at least one, if not both of them."


"LESSON/MISTAKE: With all the recessed lights on, it's still not bright enough in the room to read comfortably from the seating locations. Not an issue for theater use, but I ran into it many times with instruction manuals! I can crank up the sconces, but the direct glare from those at full power doesn't help the situation.


IF I DID IT OVER: I probably would have added 3" recessed can lights in the soffit above the seating locations, which of course would also have helped force me to the 8-zone GrafikEye."


"My advice is to follow what I did (based on advice from other AVS'ers):


1) Wait until the room is complete before actually buying the projector

2) Wait until you have the projector before finalizing the screen size

3) Test screen size in the real space before hitting the "Buy" button..."


----------



## Drakul

When you prewire for 7.1 make sure the mid speakers are at our behind your seating position.


Try not to have as much of a half-dome ceiling which can wreak havoc on your screen placement and all your measurements.


PUT A PLUG IN THE FLOOR! For your power recline seats.


----------



## 235

Secretly start the room planning/design phase long before the family knows about it. Otherwise you'll get plenty of "what's taking so long, just build it already" type of comments







. Designing every detail of the room before construction takes a lot of time but also avoids painting yourself in a corner later. Sketchup is your uncompromising friend.


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

Re: SketchUp - one tip: use components / composites liberally! If you don't (I didn't), its pretty easy to get to the point where editing the drawing becomes extremely difficult - to the point where I basically just stopped keeping mine up to date, and winged it the rest of the way.


----------



## willscam




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *235* /forum/post/21930480
> 
> 
> Secretly start the room planning/design phase long before the family knows about it. Otherwise you'll get plenty of "what's taking so long, just build it already" type of comments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Designing every detail of the room before construction takes a lot of time but also avoids painting yourself in a corner later. Sketchup is your uncompromising friend.



+1. I spent 2 years planning and researching and have spent 3 months, so far, building. Almost everyday, since I actually started physically working on the theater, my wife asks "So, are we watching a movie in your theater tonight?".







It's as if she thinks I've been building it for over two years.


----------



## tony123

I'm on year 4... Something wrong with that?


----------



## BroncoSport

Slow down speedy! I'm on year 7 (I believe).







But in all fairness to the excuses, I took about a 5 year break and restarted the build... 2 months ago. I am now hoping for finishing it this summer/fall.


----------



## willscam

Ahem.. no no, Tony, nothing wrong with that. I'm sure you'll be finished any day now.










I cheated and started with an already finished room. My goal is to complete it in 6 months. We'll see....


----------



## LT73

Alright Gents... Long time reader, first time poster (on what has surely been the most informative thread I have found on this forum).


Nonetheless, I've got one: I would have used the opportunity of having an exposed basement ceiling, to pull cables for the floor above (my living room). For years I have wanted to pull cables for rear channels on my first floor, and completely missed the boat when I was renovating my home theatre.


By the way - Thanks everyone for all these great tips! I found this thread mid-way through my build, and it helped me catch a few problems before they became regrets.


----------



## BroncoSport

It's a lot easier to ROLL the portable tablesaw, that is sitting by the stage, out of the theater BEFORE you build the 14" riser between it and the door!







Just sayin.....


----------



## Brad Horstkotte

^^







^^


----------



## jautor

I posted a whole laundry list of stuff in my build thread, a lot of them would be duplicates here... But some specific ones that may be useful to others:

*Make sure you've got enough light to read by...* There not enough light in my theater to read comfortably. I should have placed can lights above the seating just for this purpose.

*Use the most soundproof door you can.* My solid-core, but paneled, door vibrates with mid-frequency energy... Definitely the weak spot for the whole soundproofing effort.

*Consider fabric seats instead of leather.* I do find my fabric couch (not in the theater) more comfy than the leather seats. Personal preference. I steered away from fabric because of concerns about wear and tear, and spilled beverages. Probably still the right call, but don't automatically default to leather as the only solution.

*Use a carpet pattern with at least two colors.* I still like the carpet I chose, but having something with a visible pattern would absolutely help hide those little crumbs of popcorn that I seem to always miss. I suppose that's a double-edged sword - miss too much popcorn bits and the room will start to feel like the dollar theater at mall!!!


We really need to compile all of these things into a "Theater Build Mistake of the Day" calendar... Hey, maybe that's a forum feature!

















Jeff


----------



## Pan Head




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Brad Horstkotte*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/690#post_21930631
> 
> 
> Re: SketchUp - one tip: use components / composites liberally! If you don't (I didn't), its pretty easy to get to the point where editing the drawing becomes extremely difficult - to the point where I basically just stopped keeping mine up to date, and winged it the rest of the way.



If you’re not using SketchUp’s Layer and Scene features, check them out. The Look Around feature is a must too.


----------



## rs691919




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Pan Head*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22117616
> 
> 
> If you’re not using SketchUp’s Layer and Scene features, check them out. The Look Around feature is a must too.



Is the Layer and Scene feature only with Sketchup pro?


----------



## 235




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rs691919*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720_60#post_22117636
> 
> 
> Is the Layer and Scene feature only with Sketchup pro?



No, it's with the free edition. I use layers extensively to control/separate viewing of various build stages (eg HVAC, framing, drywall, soffits etc).

Scenes are very useful to illustrate and add notes to certain views you want to post in your build thread or view later (see my thread for examples).


----------



## Expat444

Mount my projector on an extension mount from the rear wall, the curtain wall I had built is fixed at 15' from the screen wall so I can't get a bigger image than 163" wide.


----------



## theUnscented




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *The Bogg*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/180#post_13065705
> 
> 
> I chose a general contractor based on a reference (from a fellow AVSer). I did it the way my friend did by agreeing to pay an hourly rate plus parts (I know, I know, it rarely works out in the customers favour). The reason I did that was because the dedicated room had some unusual construction (double drywall with non-overlapping seams with green glue in between and isolated from Isomax hangers. Fabric walls etc... Design by Rives Audio with diffusors builtin etc....). I figured because it worked for my friend it would be fine. I was given a ballpark time estimate of mid-January for completion. Based on that, I figured the hourly rate thing would be fine. Well mid-January came and went and we blew through a couple more deadlines at which point I realized that I didn't really have any recourse. It seemed to my wife and I that productivity was slowing down. Finally, I sat down and did up a contract for the remaining work and settled on a dollar number that was probably way too high. He was doing a pretty good job but I felt that he was wasting a bit of time etc..... If I fired him it would be a pita to find someone else to finish up so I just ate it on this one. In the end I don't know if I significantly overpaid for the job. It has been damn expensive. Problem was also that I didn't really set a budget. He knew I was an MD so he probably figured that the money supply was endless (wrong!) which was partly my fault because I waited too long to straighten things out.
> 
> 
> 
> Things to do differently and learn from:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The contractor has been in business longer than you and is much smarter than you in business matters. You must realize this when designing the contract. Do your research first and don't cut corners when doing it. Never assume that they have your best interests at heart. They are just trying to make a living and will try to maximize their income. Nothing wrong with that, just don't think that because you're "friends" that they'll cut you a good deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Even if someone has been referred and has done good work, get a contract anyway. I don't know what recourse there is when deadlines are missed and I'd be interested in hearing from other people what they think. From talking to my friends, it seems that it's very common to miss deadlines and go over budget and you just have to live with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Itemize things to be done and try to get a quote from multiple sources even if you think that your construction is unique (ha ha like silly me!)
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Listen to your dad and father-in-law when they tell you that they don't think it's a good idea to do the hourly rate thing - they've been there, done that, and bought the t-shirt.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully there will be closure real soon and I can post some lovely pics of my setup...


Wow, I could have written this post.







But if I had read this first, I wouldn't be six months into an eight week project!


----------



## JustMike

Indeed. And I wouldn't be nearly three years into a 1-year project.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

A fixed price contract with established progress targets is better for the homeowner. There are cautions with this approach, however. If it isn't on the plans, noted in the plans, or in writing, the contractor has no obligation to "do it". If it is something, not in the plans, that has to be done, you can expect a premium for the contract add on. If you find a contractor that has done this kind of specialty work in the past...all the better. Someone with considerable experience (in this kind of speciality) will (1) be less likely to overlook something you forgot or (2) over estimate the price to cover his/her rear end. You must establish progress payments based upon easily measureable project phases ... when we're 1/4 done, at the end of the second week, completion of rough electrical are likely not good targets ... pick targets you can easily identify such as completion of drywall install. Alternatively, pick targets a third party will identify for you, such as framing inspection, passing electrical inspection, etc. In my experience, through out the country and over 20 years, the quality and reputation of the contractor is not relevant if they have no previous experience doing this kind of work.


----------



## JustMike

I would order the fabric for my stretched-fabric walls once it was selected.


We selected all the decor options almost two years ago, and now that the woodwork is in and the paint is up, we went to order the fabric and found it discontinued. So, now I'm stuck trying to find a suitable fabric that will go with all of the finishes. Sigh.










In the same vein, order extra fabric so that if it's ever necessary to repair an area, you don't have to worry about finding that the fabric is discontinued, or that the variation between dye lots is big enough that a replacement looks mismatched.


----------



## R Harkness




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22246353
> 
> 
> I would order the fabric for my stretched-fabric walls once it was selected.
> 
> We selected all the decor options almost two years ago, and now that the woodwork is in and the paint is up, we went to order the fabric and found it discontinued. So, now I'm stuck trying to find a suitable fabric that will go with all of the finishes. Sigh.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the same vein, order extra fabric so that if it's ever necessary to repair an area, you don't have to worry about finding that the fabric is discontinued, or that the variation between dye lots is big enough that a replacement looks mismatched.



I second that one!


I used a lot of fabric in my theater and it's amazing how often lines are quickly discontinued. I ordered extra of several fabrics, which have now been discontinued, and it turned out I needed them for fixes and modifications over

time. Always order more!


----------



## Spiderm0n




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/510#post_18481278
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Screens
> 
> 
> ---- Screen too big for the room. Screen widths should never be more than 80% of the room width. Keep the screen at least 3' off the floor (if not more) and don't mount it within inches of the ceiling. Big is not always better.



I have a question about the above advice for anyone with experience. My ceiling will be 7'6". This is in a room 22' X 14'6"'. Using the Projector Calculator , if I give myself 3' on the floor and 1' on the ceiling I am left with an 85" screen in 16:9 aspect ratio. I was hoping for 120"! Any thoughts?


----------



## nickbuol

I have a massive (to me) 138" diag 1.78:1 (16:9) screen in a room that is 14' wide with a ceiling that is 7'8" finished in height. The first row of seats are about 12 feet back from the screen and I love it. We had a 104" when we were at our old house at sat 14 feet away and my wife thought that anything bigger for a screen would have been too big, but here we sit closer and the screen is larger, and even she likes it. To date I have had zero people say that it is too big.


Now keep in mind that a unmber of movies are in wider formats, so as soon as they hit the screen, it effectively "adds" distance from the bottom of the image to the top of the floor, so maybe it isn't too far off.


If you weren't in New York, I'd say come on over since my room is almost identical in dimensions to yours (14' wide x 24' deep x 7.75' tall).


Now a note. At the larger screen sizes, you need a mini light canon or higher gain screen material to keep the image nice and bright on the screen.


And a second note. A coworker of mine has a 120" screen in a room about 12' wide. I sat in his 2nd row (his first row of seats were really close) and the screen seemed too big...


EDIT: I did some quick math and my screen is about 72% the width of the room. I would have to go home and measure, but if my memory is correct, it is about 5 inches from the ceiling making it about 20 inches off the floor. With a 12" riser, the front row heads are never in the way, and sitting in front, people don't have to strain their necks looking up.


----------



## tbraden32

^^Nick,you don't find the screen to low from the First row at 20" off the floor?


----------



## nickbuol

Not at all.


I can't find it any longer, but I used a calculator similar to this one and it said that I should actually drop the screen down another 2.5 inches from what I did, but for ease of construction (the top black panel above my screen on the false wall worked out better at 4.5", and my riser worked out to 12" tall and would have needed to be taller had I dropped the screen more) I left it where it is at now.

Screen & Image Size Calculator V 1.2.2 (Excel).zip 6k .zip file


----------



## Spiderm0n

Thanks, Nick! I guess a lot of it comes down to personal preference and if you have unobstructed viewing.


----------



## secondhander

My only regret is buying some equipment before the build (Projector, receiver, blu-ray player, etc.). There is absolutely no reason to do this, even if it's a good deal. Month's later the same products will be clearance priced or there will be better technology & features you can get for your budget. You will have no use for it in advance, except hindering the speed of the build by wanting to 'test' the projector.


----------



## jautor




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *secondhander*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22440604
> 
> 
> My only regret is buying some equipment before the build (Projector, receiver, blu-ray player, etc.). There is absolutely no reason to do this, even if it's a good deal. Month's later the same products will be clearance priced or there will be better technology & features you can get for your budget. You will have no use for it in advance, except hindering the speed of the build by wanting to 'test' the projector.



Yes, absolutely on the projector. They should be labeled "Keep Refrigerated"







...


Audio / video components don't change as radically, and certainly speakers don't - so don't be afraid to pick one up if a deal presents itself. But a normal "sale" price at a big box, well, it'll be on sale again...


The other well known issue about having the projector on-hand long before completion is that once that box is opened and an image projected on a bare wall - all progress on the theater can come to a complete halt!










Jeff


----------



## secondhander




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jautor*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22441578
> 
> 
> Yes, absolutely on the projector. They should be labeled "Keep Refrigerated"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> Audio / video components don't change as radically, and certainly speakers don't - so don't be afraid to pick one up if a deal presents itself. But a normal "sale" price at a big box, well, it'll be on sale again...
> 
> The other well known issue about having the projector on-hand long before completion is that once that box is opened and an image projected on a bare wall - all progress on the theater can come to a complete halt!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jeff




Even with audio components it can still be relevant for compatibility reasons (Not speakers of course). For example, you may buy a solid 2D projector today, 6 months later when you're actually ready to hang it, you may have been able to afford a good 3D projector instead and consequently would need a 3D blu-ray player, etc. for it. Though these days, most are all 3D ready so it's probably not a concern as it was even just a year ago.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

DO NOT buy equipment until you have the room design and acoustic design completed! Until that time you won't have a clue as to what the engineering specifications the speakers will need to meet. Rather like buying an engine for a boat before you design the boat. It could look like a real bargin until you find out the engine is the wrong size/type.


----------



## nickbuol




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Dennis Erskine*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22442802
> 
> 
> DO NOT buy equipment until you have the room design and acoustic design completed! Until that time you won't have a clue as to what the engineering specifications the speakers will need to meet. Rather like buying an engine for a boat before you design the boat. It could look like a real bargin until you find out the engine is the wrong size/type.



Unless you are carrying over equipment because you have too or like something you currently have.










No I see the point here completely. I wish that I could afford to do something like that because it is very sound advice, plus, there are advances in technology all of the time. Why not wait until the space is done and treated to see what is the right equipment, and then you are also buying "fresh" product too and not something that can sit around getting old...


----------



## 235

My room has been designed and contractors will hopefully start construction next month. I recently bought speakers, subs, amps, chairs, buttkickers and screen. All of these were ordered from online companies that only sell direct. I'm glad I ordered these at this stage because it allowed me to resolve issues with my orders now rather than sitting around with a completed room while waiting for equipment glitches to be addressed. Some equipment like AVR/Preamp, projectors have shorter lifecycles so I will delay buying those until I near completion of the room.


----------



## Dennis Erskine




> Quote:
> Unless you are carrying over equipment because you have too or like something you currently have


That's "recycle", not buy. Being Green!


----------



## jdanforth

I would hire somebody to rip out the 20 year old carpet in my basement or wear a high end respirator rather than doing it myself. Twenty years is an awfully long time for crap to accumulate in carpet. The day after I took up the carpet I developed asthma and was bed-ridden for another three days. The affliction has plagued me ever since. The doctors called it allergy-induced asthma. It sucks; be careful.


----------



## just jim

Uh...2, 4 years?...I've been planning my theatre since 1991 when we bought our 1907 home. I don't like to rush into things...apparently.


Needless to say it has gone through a "few" changes. I could list the huge mistakes that I didn't make because the addition, for many reasons, didn't get built until two years ago. But what's the point, people can only take so much laughter.


By this time I had come across this site (much food for thought!!!), talked to many idiots in the business (many ideas to stay away from), talked to many salesmen in the business (unfortunately short-sighted with only one thing in mind), some in the business with interesting ideas and lucked into an honest(!) service guy that made some great recommendations. Sadly, Robert's business, All-In-One Electronics in Toronto didn't survive the recession and the trend to disposable equipment, but I still have his email address. When I was forced to consider buying a new Theatre Receiver, Rob said that even the best receivers are designed to self-destruct due to internal cooling issues and recommended splitting it into components. He said to dump as much money as "available" into the power amp(s), because that fundamental technology will "never" change, and treat the Pre-amp as a disposable item. When I expressed my frustration in getting sound advice (sorry) on speaker placement, he gave me the name of a friend who used to design audiophile speakers. Mark is going to design/I'm going to build speakers for the room and tune them in place. I like a little R&D.


With all the comments about bad experiences with contractors, I'm embarrassed to admit that I am a GC...so, I'm doing "it" to myself. So far, I have a concrete box. Three walls are ICF (insulated concrete forms) filled with 8" thick poured concrete and the fourth is the old 2' thick stone foundation wall. A suggestion from my ICF supplier was to use a corrugated steel pan and a poured concrete slab for the floor above. There is 6" of concrete poured over an 8" pan for a total floor thickness of 14". There will be isolation clips on the underside for a drop ceiling and my flooring guy suggested a 5 mm rubber isolation mat glued to the top side with 3/4 plywood glued to it, plus 3/4 hardwood. The hardwood is nailed to the plywood but the nails don't penetrate to the rubber. The room was designed as big as possible given the other rooms required and city bylaws on over-all size. I ended up with 16' x 26', and being able to say "keep digging" ended up with a clear 9' ceiling stepping down to a clear 11' at the screen end. The 6" poured floor is isolated from the walls and has radiant floor heating. There will be a dedicated ventilation/A/C. There are three rows of seating planned with 12" risers.


The kitchen above, also part of the addition, has had to be the priority (since I do most of the cooking, this project has turned out to be something of a win/win endeavor), so the theater is currently my carpentry shop. Sometimes, I just sit in there and dream...of more money to finish!


The finished room will be a combination theatre and music listening room with two dedicated sound systems. One advantage of the delays, is that when you aren't looking, you stumbled across some amazing finds. A friend, knowing I was into audio asked If I knew how his friend could dispose of an unwanted stereo inherited from his father...I now have a barely used 1990 vintage 270 w Macintosh component stereo with XRT 23 speakers and all the trimmings. The one I drooled over when I bought a new, more modest, stereo in 1990! That's the music system. There was also a new Bryston Amp on e-bay located in Texas. It was bought by a dealer when the Canadian dollar was $0.70 US and I bought when the Canadian dollar was $1.05 US.


I've read some of the problems people have Q's about. If I might offer some suggestions:


For those of you with forced air systems, try decoupling the metal ducts from the furnace with a neoprene sleeve (available from an HVAC supplier) before the pipe gets to the room, that should eliminate vibrations from the furnace. The last four feet before the vent opening should be lined with sound insulation (comes ready-lined from the HVAC supplier) and should have at least one 90 degree turn (sound travels in straight lines until it gets reflected, hence he lining). Same deal for the air return (yes, you need one). The space under the door should be minimal if not sealed to keep the sound "out".


There has been much talk here about finding the blackest black for walls. W. Eugene Smith, a famous photojournalist, from a by-gone era, suggested that the best background colour for viewing photographs was a Zone V ("5") grey. This is a mid-tone flat grey. He would insist that the walls of the galleries exhibiting his work were painted this grey. In fact, he even patented a paint with the proper pigment blend. The theory was that the neutral grey was restful on the eyes and allowed the viewer to focus on the B&W photograph without the distraction and contrast of a glaring white, dead black or coloured wall. The sheen level would be "flat". The shinier sheen levels of the paint is what is giving the problems with glare and reflection. I was planning on "starting" with this finish around the screen and see where it takes me for a colour scheme.


I started reading at the beginning of this thread about wiring in a UPS for the projector. I was thinking,"the LED units don't need the cool down period in case of a power failure." Then I noticed the date, 2005. At the rate I'm going, it might even be affordable by the time I need one.


Great site guys! Thank you!


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## Mark P

Waited for AppleTv / iPhone/ iPad / AirPlay devices and iRule.............pretty much


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## cuzed2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *just jim*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22524915
> 
> 
> so, I'm doing "it" to myself. So far, I have a concrete box. Three walls are ICF (insulated concrete forms) filled with 8" thick poured concrete and the fourth is the old 2' thick stone foundation wall. A suggestion from my ICF supplier was to use a corrugated steel pan and a poured concrete slab for the floor above. There is 6" of concrete poured over an 8" pan for a total floor thickness of 14". There will be isolation clips on the underside for a drop ceiling and my flooring guy suggested a 5 mm rubber isolation mat glued to the top side with 3/4 plywood glued to it, plus 3/4 hardwood. The hardwood is nailed to the plywood but the nails don't penetrate to the rubber. The room was designed as big as possible given the other rooms required and city bylaws on over-all size. I ended up with 16' x 26', and being able to say "keep digging" ended up with a clear 9' ceiling stepping down to a clear 11' at the screen end. The 6" poured floor is isolated from the walls and has radiant floor heating. There will be a dedicated ventilation/A/C. There are three rows of seating planned with 12" risers.



just jim,

Thanks for contributing! Your description of this space suggests it would make an excellent build thread with some photos, hint-hint


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## blipszyc

Now that I'm pretty much done with the framing, soundproofing and soon to be drywall - my "WIDDNT" would be to hire someone else to do it all! I'm getting too old for all this manual labor and it's not getting done fast enough for my wife.







I'm hoping this is my last theater for a while, which means if I do move and need a 3rd one, I'll definitely be too old for DIY.


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## just jim

The contractor has done it again! Here's some advice from our perspective.


In the Contractor's defense...yes, we are out there to make money. BUT, if the contractor is serious about building his business and not wanting to spend a high percentage of his time selling himself to get a job, he WILL have the customer's best interest at heart. His jobs should be sold by his reputation. Very few people are happy when they get the bill. Usually, the sticker shock dissipates once the client moves back in and realizes that, "that widget is exactly where it should be and everything works. AND, their friends are impressed!" And with a little grim, they realize that they don't have horror stories to share at parties about what the they found after the contractor left or what they should have done. When you go to medical specialist, you go to the best one that you can afford. Wait. I'm in Canada, so the best one costs the same as the novice...nothing. My advice is to ask to see previous jobs done by the contractor and talk to the home owners about the good and the bad. And make sure the contractor has experience in the specific type of work you need done, or have experts who are. Talk to the building inspector about his experience with that contractor. They know who is good and who needs to be watched.


The market is full of wood butchers and scoundrels. I'm sure Toronto is no different from any other settlement, where anybody with a hammer and lack of other employment fancies them self a contractor.


If you are doing new construction it is much easier to establish a ballpark price than if you are building into an existing structure, especially if work has been done there before. Building booms are the worst time to have any work done because you often have to settle for an untried contractor without a pedigree. This is when the opportunists get work because you can't find any body else. The good guys are generally the ones still working when the market is slow.


I too work strictly on a T&M basis as the GC or project manager. But, "most" of my sub-trades will be on the job on a "fixed price" basis or a fee schedule. Prices will vary depending on actual site conditions. Fair is fair. How can a contractor be expected to cover the cost for repairs to structure compromised and hidden by previous contractors or "home handymen" (Do It to Your self-ers)! I've been in the business for 30 years and still I can't believe some of the things I find! Try, 5 joists in a row that don't make it to the other end because of multiple holes cut for pipes in the previous 2 or 3 bathroom renos!!!


Ask the GC or contractor how he selects the subs for your job. This is a trick question. If the Contractor has been around, he won't be putting jobs out to tender, he will have a group that he works with. Not necessarily trades in his employment, as this adds to overhead that you will be paying a premium for. Personally, I believe that an independent sub understands that his reputation is only as good as his last job and will want to build his business with the contractor. As a "sub" instead of an "employee" he knows that he is more easily replaced if he doesn't perform to the contractor's "expectations". Also, and very important, is that he must be a team player. Sometimes he has to take the second or third best/easiest route, for example running wire, when he knows that a pipe has to go in a specific area. He knows that he won't be on the next job if he complicates things for others. But it is the contractor that sets the tone (ie. if corner cutting is tolerated). Three-way communication is imperative. The subs need to know expectations and critical details before they proceed with work in each area, they need to tell the contractor immediately if they encounter a problem and possibly most importantly, the client should be comfortable discussing even the most minute detail that they are not completely happy with, with the contractor whether in the drawings or finished work. Never mind the hair dresser, only the contractor actually knows for sure! A fresh set of eyes and an open discussion usually comes up with solutions for what had been compromises. Experienced trades are always happy to get some of the lime light when they can propose a fix that they may have seen before or come up with in your specific situation. Never underestimate a trade that takes pride in his work!!! You will be pleasantly surprised. I take pride in finding them, keeping them and having them on site.


Conversely, ask the contractor how long his trades have been with him. Subs won't work for a contractor that is constantly having problem, doesn't treat them with the respect that a quality trade deserves and has issues with money.


Understand that the GC should be working for YOU, but he must also protect his sub trades. If changes are made, the trade must still get paid for the work done. If the change was made by the homeowner...


Ask how the contractor deals with change orders. I don't bill for changes, only for work done and restocking fees, if charged by the supplier, which is rare, since they want my business. Obviously my time is covered discussing the change, but I don't see the logic in charging for an item if it was changed before any work was done on it. I do custom work and therefore expect things to change as the job progresses. Very few homeowners have the insight or "mental imaging" capability to understand or "see" what is on the drawings. Sadly, this includes too many architects, engineers and designers. In their defense, (aren't I diplomatic?) they are not on the renovation site on a daily basis, if at all, after the project starts, and have made many assumptions in preparing their drawings. The contractor should be there and can address problems as they are exposed. He is often in the best position to propose solutions, present them to the homeowner and or designer given his knowledge of existing site conditions. This is what you are paying for.


As far as the fear of T&M becoming, "Take your time and material". The work site should be a happy place. As the homeowner, find things to compliment workers on. It will put a smile on their face and let them know that you are appreciating what they are doing. If they are not doing something right, take it up with the contractor to deal with. Discuss concerns and problems before they become big and expensive. "Expensive" translates into stress on everybody and causes voices to get raised and other bad stuff. If you have made a mistake, own up to it! We already know who's mistake it is. The difference will be how everybody eagerly contributes to fix it. For you! Honesty is a two way street. Work on a happy site will not slow down, because every body wants to work for someone that acknowledges and appreciates them. If work appears to be slowing, step back and make sure that there isn't some issue being dealt with or that your impatience to get your place back isn't clouding your perception. Having renovation/construction work done on your home is ranked as one of the most stressful events in your life. Right up there with having a baby, moving and not having money. Breath!


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## LeBon

I've also decided I don't have a third DIY build in me, so at my age I will be hiring out most of the construction work. Now that I'm retired, I can spend as much time as it takes to supervise the contractors to make sure it gets done right. I'll still do the signal wiring and electronic installation myself. Also, this time I will go to a higher level of professional planning help -- Erskine Group's "Signature" level design package.


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## cuzed2

I am hoping I have one more build in me (I'm old enough to remember things like the Mercury & Gemini space programs).

Hopefully I will still "FEEL" young enough to carry out a DIY 2nd theater build, when we go with an empty-nester home in a few years.

(although I must concede - I hired out he drywall work for HT #1)


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## JustMike

I should have signed up for a credit card that did flight miles, or some other rewards program, and made all purchases for the theater (and the home remodel) with that card. It didn't occur to me until very late in the project, and I could basically fly to Saturn on any major airline at this point if I had done that... ;-)


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## thebland

More room behind the screen wall. Not much else as I really planned it out for months and months. And that was about 7 years ago!


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## cdika17




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *thebland*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/700_100#post_22577579
> 
> 
> More room behind the screen wall. Not much else as I really planned it out for months and months. And that was about 7 years ago!



How much did you leave and how much do you recommend?


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## Jedi




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22576994
> 
> 
> I should have signed up for a credit card that did flight miles, or some other rewards program, and made all purchases for the theater (and the home remodel) with that card. It didn't occur to me until very late in the project, and I could basically fly to Saturn on any major airline at this point if I had done that... ;-)




.....yeah, but think about the baggage fees, they would have killed you.


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## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22576994
> 
> 
> I should have signed up for a credit card that did flight miles, or some other rewards program, and made all purchases for the theater (and the home remodel) with that card. It didn't occur to me until very late in the project, and I could basically fly to Saturn on any major airline at this point if I had done that... ;-)


I have a Sony card and basically am getting the new HW50ES for free!


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## GRBoomer

Well theater is not quite done, but wife scheduled a basement/theater open house/Christmas party for the neighborhood.


Rushing to get everything done. Went to mount speakers with just hours to party time.

Speaker wires shrunk???!!!????


I swear I pulled the wires for the mains to above my head, but now they barely reached the mains 2' from the floor.

Worse yet, I had very little to spare for the surrounds. One surround was short 2 inches and I had to move it over to get the wire to reach. No time to find wire and splice in an extension.


*Lesson learned* Leave way more speaker wire at each end of the install than you think you need. I was cheap and trying to run it all 7 channels off of one 250' roll.



On the plus side: The un-calibrated, untreated (fabric walls up) sounded great at first listen as the first track was Master and Commander from the Blu-ray demo disks on this forum. I think I got hit by splintering wood as the cannon balls ripped through the ship.



P.S. The water heater sprung a leak that morning too. Setting back all of the setup activities 3 hours.


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## rockjock75




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time#post_10702123
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.
> 
> 
> 
> (And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)



This made me laugh because I am having the exact same problem!


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## SKINSnCANES

Im in the middle, well beginning, of a build now. But I cant stress enough buying good lumber. My 2x4s are crap from the box stores! I right now have all of my truck tie down synched tight to hold everything in place. Im hoping a few days help untwist the lumber before I put in the final screws.


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## just jim

Sorry, it will only get worse. If it is too much work to rebuild, you can try planing off any "twist" bumps with an electric planer - Be careful with the spinning blades!!! Bowed 2 x 4's can be cut about 2/3 through from the front, in the middle of a "bow" and pushed in (will close saw kurf) and put a screw/nail "toe nailed" to hold *or* pulled out (will open the saw kurf), put a shim into the saw kurf and toe nailed depending on whether stud is bowed out or in. Yes, this is as much work as it sounds. Use a straight edge; a 4"strip of 3/4 plywood, not one of your studs.










TIP: If your studs are not absolutely perfect, make sure all the bows go the same way. If you are building a room within a room or ONE side is more critical, make the bow "bend" away from you. A hollow is always easier to fill or ignore, than plane off.


Using 5/8" drywall will also help smooth out a twisted wall. The heavier DW can support itself over some of the dips.


This is why I like supporting the "professional" Lumber yards. One that is busy. They are busy for a reason, they will probably have better quality material. At not much more, if anything. I have bought plywood at home cheapo that wasn't even square!!! They are strictly price driven.


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## SKINSnCANES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *just jim*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22791299
> 
> 
> Sorry, it will only get worse. If it is too much work to rebuild, you can try planing off any "twist" bumps with an electric planer - Be careful with the spinning blades!!! Bowed 2 x 4's can be cut about 2/3 through from the front, in the middle of a "bow" and pushed in (will close saw kurf) and put a screw/nail "toe nailed" to hold *or* pulled out (will open the saw kurf), put a shim into the saw kurf and toe nailed depending on whether stud is bowed out or in. Yes, this is as much work as it sounds. Use a straight edge; a 4"strip of 3/4 plywood, not one of your studs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TIP: If your studs are not absolutely perfect, make sure all the bows go the same way. If you are building a room within a room or ONE side is more critical, make the bow "bend" away from you. A hollow is always easier to fill or ignore, than plane off.
> 
> Using 5/8" drywall will also help smooth out a twisted wall. The heavier DW can support itself over some of the dips.
> 
> This is why I like supporting the "professional" Lumber yards. One that is busy. They are busy for a reason, they will probably have better quality material. At not much more, if anything. I have bought plywood at home cheapo that wasn't even square!!! They are strictly price driven.



heres two pics of the straps. Amazingly, the pulled them perfectly square. I had a straight board on top and this worked. Right now I just have these sitting here. I dont want to close the bottom of the soffit yet because of other work. Im hoping this helps twist it into place and ill leave these up until after I put up the bottom cross braces and screw them in.


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## jautor

Catching up on this thread made me think of something that I *did* do, and should pass along... Especially since it's that time of the year:


Keep copies of all your receipts during construction. Not just for the obvious reason. Sales tax is deductible (NOTE: This is mostly helpful only for those of us in the states without a state income tax), and any big project like a theater (or for me this year, a big backyard project), the sales tax adds up, and can easily surpass the 'estimated amount' you can itemize without receipts - and I suppose could pass even the state income taxes. Which also means you should then squirrel away every receipt during that year, as it will actually mean something!


(blah blah - consult your tax professional - IANAL blah blah blah







)


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## just jim

Hi SnC

So it is just the bottom plate (horizontal) of the bulk head ("ladder") that is warped? If you get some steel studs cut to length (measure front of bulkhead to back side of beam less 1" - the 1" is 1/2" at each end so that the metal doesn't stick out and interfere with the Drywall.) cut the ends so that only a 3" length of the web is left (1 1/2" front and back faces are snipped off) and screw this "tab" to the underside of the plate and the underside of the beam. Do this at 4' intervals, given the short span. Not only will it keep the bulk head straight, but it will give you something to attach the drywall to. The 1 1/2 dimension is up out of the way and will give a bent edge to support all the wire without damage. Take your straps off and you don't have to wait.


I am assuming that the plate is level with the bottom of the beam. If it isn't, chalk a line on the stud wall, level with the bulkhead and use the 1 1/2 dimension to fasten to the side of the stud (snip off the web and one of the 1 1/2 faces. The steel stud stays oriented the same way. Obviously the length of the metal stud would be from the front of the bulkhead to the far side of the wall stud, less 1".


In either method put a "metal corner" (not a corner bead - it is a 7/8" x 1 3/8" 24 gauge bent piece of flat metal) attached to the wall, long side down, to catch the edge of the drywall from the underside of the bulkhead and the top of the wall to reinforce that joint.


I generally don't like framing with steel, but it can't be beat for strapping and reinforcing wood!


I see in the next picture that there are two air ducts. If the DW is spanning from the wall over the ducts to another "ladder". Was the first ladder really necessary? Or could you have attached a 2 x 2 to the wall?


Have a beer.


----------



## SKINSnCANES




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *just jim*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22802877
> 
> 
> Hi SnC
> 
> So it is just the bottom plate (horizontal) of the bulk head ("ladder") that is warped? If you get some steel studs cut to length (measure front of bulkhead to back side of beam less 1" - the 1" is 1/2" at each end so that the metal doesn't stick out and interfere with the Drywall.) cut the ends so that only a 3" length of the web is left (1 1/2" front and back faces are snipped off) and screw this "tab" to the underside of the plate and the underside of the beam. Do this at 4' intervals, given the short span. Not only will it keep the bulk head straight, but it will give you something to attach the drywall to. The 1 1/2 dimension is up out of the way and will give a bent edge to support all the wire without damage. Take your straps off and you don't have to wait.
> 
> 
> I am assuming that the plate is level with the bottom of the beam. If it isn't, chalk a line on the stud wall, level with the bulkhead and use the 1 1/2 dimension to fasten to the side of the stud (snip off the web and one of the 1 1/2 faces. The steel stud stays oriented the same way. Obviously the length of the metal stud would be from the front of the bulkhead to the far side of the wall stud, less 1".
> 
> 
> In either method put a "metal corner" (not a corner bead - it is a 7/8" x 1 3/8" 24 gauge bent piece of flat metal) attached to the wall, long side down, to catch the edge of the drywall from the underside of the bulkhead and the top of the wall to reinforce that joint.
> 
> 
> I generally don't like framing with steel, but it can't be beat for strapping and reinforcing wood!
> 
> 
> I see in the next picture that there are two air ducts. If the DW is spanning from the wall over the ducts to another "ladder". Was the first ladder really necessary? Or could you have attached a 2 x 2 to the wall?
> 
> 
> Have a beer.



The pictures doesn't really explain what my build is. I am removing all of the duct work in my house in exchange for mini splits. So where the straps are will be the only soffit soon. I just dont want to remove the old ducts until the new system is fulling operational.


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## Spaceman

If you have recessed cans or sconces along your side walls, consider putting the ones closest to the screen on their own zone so they can be controlled separately from the ones towards the middle and back of the room. For movies, I like all of them off, but for tv/sports, I would have liked to have my side soffit lights on at a low-moderate level, but the front-most cans cast too much light on the screen. I need to keep the sides off and compensate by having the rear soffit cans brighter than I would like.


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## ragged




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22576994
> 
> 
> I should have signed up for a credit card that did flight miles, or some other rewards program, and made all purchases for the theater (and the home remodel) with that card. It didn't occur to me until very late in the project, and I could basically fly to Saturn on any major airline at this point if I had done that... ;-)



Yup, I signed up for an Amazon Prime card, which my wife and use for everything, even other renovations around the house. Over the last two years we've racked up enough amazon points to buy an XPA-3 and a Pioneer SC-67 from Amazon. Plus we stream movies on Amazon anyway and as prime members, some of the movies are free!


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## hockmastr8

I'm sure this might be somewhere in the last 26 pages...


But....


MAKE SURE YOU TEST ALL YOUR CABLES BEFORE YOU PUT THEM THROUGH THE WALL!!!!! Also run CAT6 everywhere, and try to have a pull string everywhere as well






































I completed my home theater yesterday, I mean COMPLETE, except for the carpeting... and then after massive amounts of troubleshooting, realized that the brand new aurum cable from amazon was defective!


Anyone else experience this?


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## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockmastr8*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22950157
> 
> 
> I'm sure this might be somewhere in the last 26 pages...
> 
> 
> But....
> 
> 
> MAKE SURE YOU TEST ALL YOUR CABLES BEFORE YOU PUT THEM THROUGH THE WALL!!!!! Also run CAT6 everywhere, and try to have a pull string everywhere as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I completed my home theater yesterday, I mean COMPLETE, except for the carpeting... and then after massive amounts of troubleshooting, realized that the brand new aurum cable from amazon was defective!
> 
> 
> Anyone else experience this?



That's a bummer! Can you use the old in-wall cable to pull new cable through?


----------



## blipszyc




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *hockmastr8*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22950157
> 
> 
> I'm sure this might be somewhere in the last 26 pages...
> 
> 
> But....
> 
> 
> MAKE SURE YOU TEST ALL YOUR CABLES BEFORE YOU PUT THEM THROUGH THE WALL!!!!! Also run CAT6 everywhere, and try to have a pull string everywhere as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I completed my home theater yesterday, I mean COMPLETE, except for the carpeting... and then after massive amounts of troubleshooting, realized that the brand new aurum cable from amazon was defective!
> 
> 
> Anyone else experience this?


I had an HDMI cable fail on me about 1 year into my theater being complete. Then, when I tried to use my pull-string, it must have gotten caught up in other cables and snapped. The best thing I had ever bought was some cable lubricant. I was able to squirt some into the conduit, work it to the trouble spot and free up the old hdmi cable. Using a standard wire fish tape, I was able to get a new HDMI cable to the projector. There was a lot of yelling and cussing involved, but it worked out in the end.










What I learned from this was to run as many cables as possible OUTSIDE of the conduit while the walls/ceiling are open so that there is plenty of room in the conduit for new wires, if needed.


----------



## hockmastr8




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *erkq*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22950387
> 
> 
> That's a bummer! Can you use the old in-wall cable to pull new cable through?



Negative... I have a custom star ceiling... and really high end wallpapered walls as well...


----------



## design1stcode2nd

I've tested none of the cabling in my build and this is something that is on my mind. I'm hoping I can use any dead cable as a pull cable if one of them is bad. If not I'm going to be really really unhappy.


----------



## blipszyc

Another tip on pulling cable - pull about 6'-10' extra, even if you don't think you'll need it. I had some left over cat6 cable that I decided to run from my PJ location to the front of the room. I had just enough left to make it front to back and it seemed like there was plenty hanging down. After channel, double drywall and finish panels, there's only about 1.5' hanging now and it'll probably be too short if I actually need it. Thankfully it was an extra pull and my first pull has plenty of leeway, but for others that may be doing only one pull, make sure you have enough!


----------



## design1stcode2nd

One thing I’d do differently is putty my woodwork before staining. I thought I’d match the stain afterwards but I didn’t get all the putty off (I had some gaps on the corner columns) and it really showed up after the poly was put on. In hindsight I would have color matched the putty, sanded, stained and then finished in that order.


----------



## Steelkilt

This.

And take your time. If the budget allows, hire it out. If the budget really allows, do skim coat plaster & blue board. If done by a decent pro, it can give you buttery smooth walls and almost no visible imperfections.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *rsprance*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/150#post_12278454
> 
> 
> Here's some more after finishing my first tape/spackle job:
> 
> 
> 
> * use the paper tape, not the mesh. The paper tape takes a little longer to get the hang of but its a little easier to cover smoothly in the 2nd and third coats.
> 
> 
> 
> * do the least conspicuous wall first. you will get better as you go along. I was dumb enough to do the most prominent wall first.
> 
> 
> 
> * for the first coat of mud, water down the compound a little bit. It makes life so much easier. A pro taper suggested that to me.
> 
> 
> 
> * Wet the tape in water just before you put it up and try to get all the mud out from under it in one long smooth swipe. dont keep trying to make it better with more mud, you will make it worse. its good if you can still see the tape. 2nd and 3rd coats will take care of it.
> 
> 
> 
> * lightly sand (dont scrape) between coats.
> 
> 
> 
> * use the sponge sanders. Those pro sand blocks and screens dont give you a good feel.
> 
> 
> 
> *its the most boring and disgusting phase of the process. if you take your time you will be very happy when its all over.


----------



## just jim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *design1stcode2nd*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_23038569
> 
> 
> One thing I’d do differently is putty my woodwork before staining. I thought I’d match the stain afterwards but I didn’t get all the putty off (I had some gaps on the corner columns) and it really showed up after the poly was put on. In hindsight I would have color matched the putty, sanded, stained and then finished in that order.


If you are filling defects in the joints? Yes fill them before sanding and staining with a material that will take the stain the same way as the wood, so that it doesn't stand out. You can add lines with a pen or pencil (test that won't get dissolved by the stain or other finishes) to extend grain patterns over patch to help it blend in. Some wood fillers are colour matched to a wood colour as a base colour and can be further stained with the "over-all" stain.

If you are just filling nail holes from installation of trim for example, this is usually done after the wood has been stained and varnished. The wood putty is matched to the final trim colour. Sometimes this means using 2 or 3 different putties, each coloured to match the specific grain being filled. The varnish finish will prevent the putty from getting into the grain of the surrounding wood as it can be cleaned away with your finger or cloth.


----------



## just jim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Steelkilt*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_23084178
> 
> 
> This.
> 
> And take your time. If the budget allows, hire it out. If the budget really allows, do skim coat plaster & blue board. If done by a decent pro, it can give you buttery smooth walls and almost no visible imperfections.



If you have never done taping before and this is a room you will want to show off, hiring it out is hands down the best advice and worth the money...and you'll probably save time and definitely aggravation.


The reason you are adding a little water to the mud is that if the humidity is low and/or you aren't moving fast enough, the mud that you are trying to embed the tape into is surface drying. Any spots where the mud is drying will not stick to the tape, resulting in a bubble that will appear after the 2nd coat (before the 2nd coat dries, cut the tape on 3 sides of the bubble and apply a thin layer of mud and scrape with your knife to flatten. I have never seen a professional taper wet the tape with just water. I would imagine the air would have to be extremely dry! You need to be careful not to the make the tape so wet that it starts stretching. You are only adding water to the amount of mud used for embedding the tape (Yes, you may add a lesser amount of water to regular mud for the 3rd coat if you aren't using light mud to get a smoother edge). When taping, *do not* scrape all of the mud out from under the tape! The mud is what is gluing the tape to the board. Again you will get a bubble! Do not apply a coat of mud over the wet tape to try and speed things along. Scrap the tape with a 4" knife, using the profile of the tapered DW joint as a guide. The tape and underlying mud will dry and shrink tight to the Drywall surface. The 2nd coat goes on with a 6" knife which should ride on the face of the DW. With a little pressure and the proper flexible knife, you will leave this coat flat with the face of the DW and dry just below the plane of the face. The tape should be completely covered and protected from the sanding. Mud on wet tape will keep the tape from shrinking tight, leaving it close to the surface where it can be roughed-up with sanding and will always show through the paint as a rough spot. 3rd coat with a 10" trowel should bring the joint smooth with the plane of the DW face. Over troweling will start pulling the surface of the mud. If things start going wrong; stop and let it dry and put on another coat. When dry Feather the edges with a 6" knife or trowel with a tight (thin) coat and touch up any imperfections.


Too much sanding can damage the smooth paper surface of the DW. By not putting too much mud on in each coat, I get away without sanding at all between coats, hence minimizing the dusty mess. I will scrape with the next size knife/trowel in localized areas to get rid of a blob or ridge (let them dry!!! Trying to get rid of all of them when wet will make more mess). If you've made a bit of a mess, the sanding screen won't plug up like paper. Use 150 or 180 grit on your final sand. Carefully! wipe down or vacuum the surface (it is fragile and easily scratched) to minimize the loose dust and prime with DW primer. The primer will harden the mud coating and help protect it from scratches. It will also make any imperfections jump out. With a strong light shining obliquely across the wall fill and sand all the imperfections. Touching the dried patches with a fine sponge (an almost worn out sponge is best). I like the "low dust" mud for small jobs and repairs. I get a good surface out of it and very little dust in the air to fill the rest of the house.


Don't skimp on the dust mast; use an N-95 with TWO elastic straps, or a respirator if you are sensitive to dust; the one-elastic masks are a joke. Getting one with a valve will make it easier to breath and less tiring. My painter ended up with a rash from the Home Cheapo made-in-China masks. I buy 3M. So does he, now.










The professional DW suppliers should have a "latex" coating that can be sprayed or rolled on to give a very tough scratch resistant surface close to plaster in feel. "Tough Hide" is the name of the product from CGC (now part of US Gypsum). Other manufacturers have similar products. Again the application of this product is best left to an experienced professional to get an even coating.


----------



## chris bryant

I always run low voltage pipes throughout my homes as standard now, rather than running cat 6, hdmi, etc.. That way you are safe, no matter what the industry does, or if you change your mind later. Smurf piping can be purchased at Home Boy Depot. Use at least 3/4" pipe. The half inch is too small to get much more than speaker wires through it. PVC piping and landscape pipes can also be used. And I wouldn't be so quick to condeme HD for their quality. HD sells Simpson Mills solid dimensional Doug Fir lumber, which is the best lumber available in North America. All the osb plywood is crap, and everybody has to buy it from the same lumber mills anyway. If you need plywood, use Laminated veneer plywood instead of osb. It will cost more, but will hold up better and is stronger, IMHO. Plywood is not out of square, they have cut down the size so as to force carpenters from butting the edges too tight, which causes it to expand and pop when it gets wet. Now, if you want to talk service, there is none at the box stores, so it would be a short conversation.


----------



## chris bryant

I see you are from Canada and when you said "have a beer", for some reason that made me think of Rich Moranis in "Strange Brew", "take off eh, you hoser". You pull his tale, eh, no way, he looks hungry.


----------



## ScAndal




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22950475
> 
> 
> What I learned from this was to run as many cables as possible OUTSIDE of the conduit while the walls/ceiling are open so that there is plenty of room in the conduit for new wires, if needed.



+1!


----------



## just jim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chris bryant*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23125373
> 
> 
> And I wouldn't be so quick to condeme HD for their quality. ... *Plywood is not out of square, they have cut down the size so as to force carpenters from butting the edges too tight, which causes it to expand and pop when it gets wet.* Now, if you want to talk service, there is none at the box stores, so it would be a short conversation.



Hi Chris

If this was in response to my comment? I did get 2 or 3 sheets that were actually 1" off square!!! After chaulking a line to start the roof sheathing (of course this had to happen at the edge of a roof), I put the first sheet of T & G down. I butted the next sheet to it and couldn't believe the sheet ran off the line by 2" in 8'! When they cut the sheets of plywood or OSB to length, they are moving on a conveyor and the cross-cut saw moves diagonally to compensate for this movement. This must have been cut Monday morning before things were synchronized.


I agree with you that OSB (oriented strand board) is not worth buying. I've seen dining room chair legs punch through floors that were carpet over OSB.


----------



## DenverBlue

What would I have done differently? PLAY the POWER BALL


Years ago I bought a spec home in 2/3 completed sub division. Every evening I would go over and see what had or had not been done. One evening after it had been framed and the plywood was on it I went over to look at it. After a walk thru I knew something was wrong but could not find it. After a half hour of walking around the house and inside I concluded they had not framed for a window in the third bedroom. Told a neighbor the problem that evening. After sleeping on it I figured the builder could not be that stupid so went back that morning and sure enough they were working on the window, and said the neighbor had told them the error of their ways. A week later was there and asked why they were cutting a hole in the roof, and was told it was for the gas heat vent. Then I asked why I needed gas heat and was told it gets cold in the winter. I countered with asking why I had paid 2500 extra for a heat pump. All of this was minor compared to the one thing I did not catch. The sides of the house were brick and they did not put tar paper on the house prior to the brick. So when it rained, water poured into the house at the windows that were in the brick wall. All the houses prior to mine also lacked the water proofing. The builder lost his shirt with all the retro work. This is why YOU the consumer should do as much research as you can and not totally depend on the GC.

Years later the wife and I built a house/barn in the mountains. Four things I learned were; One - open web trusses are a god send for running heat, plumbing, and everything else out of sight. Two – If you insist on doing the drywall yourself get a drywall jack, it will save your marriage. Three – Even if you can do it yourself check around for cost of material and cost plus installation. We hired out the installation of the insulation and it was cheaper than just buying the insulation. Four – Don’t shoot your wife with the nail gun.

After the mountain house/barn was done we started on the Dream Home. Here are some of the things I learned:

If YOU hire anyone to work on your property, make sure they are insured do not bet the farm on your homeowner’s policy. There insurance carrier should get you a copy of the policy. If they can’t get you a copy of the policy slam the door. It’s amazing the things that can go wrong when blasting.

Just because it’s in a contract and on the plans does not mean that’s the way it’s going to be. I let the GC know that everything was going in open web floor trusses. I did not look at the specs of the floor trusses, so the main heat runs and returns had to go below instead of in. When they tried that with the sprinkler system I flipped out. Turned out the GC, heating and the sprinkler folks had not sat down together. They all assumed they were doing things the way they had always had, hung below the truss.

If you can, be on site when work is done. It is amazing the things that you will spot in the nick of time. Concrete forms not in the right place or height, openings to rooms that are in the wrong place.

Even with the heat ducts hanging down I have 10 foot ceilings in the basement so I can live with it. Built the space for a racquetball court in the basement (20X20X40) that 10 inches messed that up but is there ever room for a Home Theater, which is currently on the first floor, and some day in the basement.


Since I am a Ham Radio operator and knowing I was building in one of the top five lightning strike areas in the country I did a little more than most. Lightning rods on both structures and in the panels:

Levitron 51120-1 Panel Protection

Delta Lightning Arrestors LA-302R and CA-302R


So far in 20+ years have only lost a modem and a phone(it hit the Telco line running to the neighbor then went underground at the pedestal and went almost 200 feet in PVC before getting me), the one neighbor has had their house hit twice and another has gone thru their electronics on a regular basis. I realize a direct strike and it’s all over.


I hope this at least brings a smile to your face and gives others some food for thought.


----------



## davdev




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/750#post_22576994
> 
> 
> I should have signed up for a credit card that did flight miles, or some other rewards program, and made all purchases for the theater (and the home remodel) with that card. It didn't occur to me until very late in the project, and I could basically fly to Saturn on any major airline at this point if I had done that... ;-)





We did an addition on our house a few years ago. We had an equity line, but also a high limit Marriot Rewards card. We put all charges on the marriot card then paid off with the equity line. $250K later, we had two weeks in aruba on the house. Looking back, we should have used it in Italy, but yeah, a free trip is a free trip


----------



## djkest




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *davdev*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23292879
> 
> 
> We did an addition on our house a few years ago. We had an equity line, but also a high limit Marriot Rewards card. We put all charges on the marriot card then paid off with the equity line. $250K later, we had two weeks in aruba on the house. Looking back, we should have used it in Italy, but yeah, a free trip is a free trip



$250k is more than my house. And my boss's house.


----------



## macfan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *djkest*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23329156
> 
> 
> $250k is more than my house. And my boss's house.



More then three and a half times mine and I have a pretty nice house in an upscale neighborhood. Very nice surroundings (pond right out my front door and blue spruce woods behind my backyard / both the woods and the pond attract all kinds of interesting wild life) and very low crime rate. I will admit I did buy when real estate prices had hit rock bottom during this last recession (and no it was not a short sale or a foreclosure). It can be done if you are prudent. The house has a big unfinished basement, half of which is going to be my Home Theater if the good fairies would ever show up for work with their tools, materials, and a big bag of money to help me complete it. (I do understand that real estate prices have a lot to do with location and the Michigan economy has been hit very hard by the past auto industry problems.)


To answer the topic question: What would I do differently next time? I would hire my own inspector and not use the one the real estate agent suggested before I even bought my place so I could build my Home Theater. Not that there were any major things wrong with my house. Just little things the inspector should have caught. He obviously told me what the real estate agent wanted me to hear. The smartest thing I ever did was have the sellers throw in a 2 year home warranty, at their expense, to cover all of those little things.


----------



## just jim




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *macfan*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23329281
> 
> 
> 
> To answer the topic question: What would I do differently next time? I would hire my own inspector and not use the one the real estate agent suggested before I even bought my place so I could build my Home Theater. Not that there were any major things wrong with my house. Just little things the inspector should have caught. He obviously told me what the real estate agent wanted me to hear.



Don't ever trust the "pre-inspection report" offered by the real estate pimp!!! It is one of the biggest scams going, in my opinion. One of the "popular" companies, claims they hire only engineers for inspectors. Ask yourself, would an engineer capable of getting a real job be a house inspector? I have yet to read one of their reports that is half way accurate or complete, "in my opinion"!


As you have guessed, some real estate pimps "appear" to have relationships with particular inspectors who give favourable reports and glaring errors and omissions. While looking at a house a friend was thinking of buying, I noticed the smell of fabreeze in the basement (N.B. fabreeze in basement = problem!!!). The report indicated simply, that a minor drip at the main shutoff should be addressed. When I finally found where they had hidden it, he had simply not mentioned the mold that extended beyond the cabinet to under the carpeted plywood on the floor and behind the finished drywall. By the time I came back upstairs, my friend's wife, who had stayed on the main floor for the 30 minutes that we were there, was having problems breathing...but the listing agent had no idea about who sprayed the fabreeze or any knowledge of the mold. The house sold to somebody else.


I believe these pre-inspections carry disclaimers which limit any claims to the one who paid for the inspection, the listing agent.


My comments are based on my personal experience and is by no means a reflection of all real estate people, unemployed engineers and certainly not all inspection companies.










...and I'm still waiting for that fairy to show up at my place... "1/3.5 of $250k"? That's about the premium you'd pay for having 2 parking "spaces" on a property in TO!







Location, location, location!


----------



## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mbgonzomd*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/0_50#post_10702123
> 
> 
> I would buy a second tape measure. One for within the theater, the other for where the saws are. I could of cut a month off my project if I didn 't have to walk back and forth between locations looking for the tape measure.
> 
> 
> 
> (And, yes, I know they have a handy clip to attach it to your pants/belt, but this requires forethought prior to moving between rooms...and I have none.)



This has been my experience with evey project I do. I actually leave two tape measures in each area because somehow even 1 each for eac location isn't enough and they both end up not somewhere else when I need them.


----------



## rabident

Use conduit as the base for every run that goes in. Then use if you need it, and leave the conduit itself there for future proofing. Cable standards change quickly compared to the life of a house.


Cat7 is around the corner. I put cat6 in for future, but looking at some of the new products for cat7, I wish I had just used conduit so I could pull _whatever_ I needed through _whenever_.


----------



## bundhar

why the telephone jack?


----------



## MilesBFree

I would build a bigger equipment closet. It is 6' 6" x 8' 6" and the racks just fit in the room with the doors open and allow me to walk around them to the back, but there isn't much space to work behind the racks where much of the cabling connects.


I have 3 full size racks purchased off of eBay, one for mostly wiring termination and low-level stuff like the security system panel. The second is mostly network, server, and storage. The third rack is mostly the HT and entertainment-related gear. I probably have enough rack space so 3 is the right number for me. It would be nice to have more room to maneuver behind the racks, though. There was only really one area in the basement to put the room without severely compromising the rest of the basement so I was more or less stuck with it. It isn't that big of an issue now since everything is installed, but initial cabling hook up wasn't fantabulous...


(Insert obligatory raised floor joke here...)










8' x 8' would be my minimum next time and would make working in it much more comfortable.


----------



## Mfusick




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MilesBFree*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/700_100#post_23393245
> 
> 
> I would build a bigger equipment closet. It is 6' 6" x 8' 6" and the racks just fit in the room with the doors open and allow me to walk around them to the back, but there isn't much space to work behind the racks where much of the cabling connects.
> 
> 
> I have 3 full size racks purchased off of eBay, one for mostly wiring termination and low-level stuff like the security system panel. The second is mostly network, server, and storage. The third rack is mostly the HT and entertainment-related gear. I probably have enough rack space so 3 is the right number for me. It would be nice to have more room to maneuver behind the racks, though. There was only really one area in the basement to put the room without severely compromising the rest of the basement so I was more or less stuck with it. It isn't that big of an issue now since everything is installed, but initial cabling hook up wasn't fantabulous...
> 
> 
> (Insert obligatory raised floor joke here...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8' x 8' would be my minimum next time and would make working in it much more comfortable.



Your dimensions are what I was planning. Advice noted


----------



## MilesBFree




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mfusick*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23393267
> 
> 
> Your dimensions are what I was planning. Advice noted



One more thought - check the depth of the racks you are considering. Width is somewhat standard; 19" is the standard equipment mounting width so most racks are just a few inches wider, such as around 22" - 24". But depth varies a lot depending on the rack. They make deeper cabinets for more "industrial strength" servers and other gear and I have seen those at up to 48" deep (outside of rack measurement) and there may be even deeper ones out there...


Also check to see how they are measuring the rack - mounting depth is the distance between the front and rear rails and that is sometimes the number used. The overall / outside depth will be a fair amount larger since the racks usually have room in them between the rear (and front) of the equipment and the doors.


Also check to see how much depth that the doors add when they are open. My racks have a single full width door on the front so it swings open around 24". The rear doors are split so there are two doors on each rack at around 12" each. The racks are 36" deep, so 36 + 24 + 12 = 6' on the nose so the racks fit in the room with the doors open with a few inches to spare.


I bought 3 HP 10000 racks on eBay for around $450 each, shipped. I was initially planning on a 30" deep rack, but the deal was too good to pass up. Those did not have the split front doors I was considering which meant I had to shift the racks rear-ward by another 12". That plus the loss of 6" due to a greater depth meant 18" less of working space behind them. As I mentioned, it wasn't the end of the world but it was tight. Little changes add up.


----------



## JustMike

If I could have done it, I would have built a projection booth, soundproofed the hell out of it, installed dedicated cooling, and put the equipment racks in there along with the projector. A good-quality optical port is expensive, but my options on projectors were very constrained by the need for extreme quiet. With what I spent on the projector, I definitely could have paid for the port and the construction of the booth.


The problem for me was the layout and size of the room, which prevented doing the booth approach.


----------



## ctviggen




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *macfan*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23329281
> 
> 
> More then three and a half times mine and I have a pretty nice house in an upscale neighborhood. Very nice surroundings (pond right out my front door and blue spruce woods behind my backyard / both the woods and the pond attract all kinds of interesting wild life) and very low crime rate. I will admit I did buy when real estate prices had hit rock bottom during this last recession (and no it was not a short sale or a foreclosure). It can be done if you are prudent. .



Not in Connecticut it can't. If you're anywhere close to NYC, think one million dollars for a fixer or a very small house. The further you get from NYC, the prices come down, but buying a $250,000 house you'd actually want to live in will be quite challenging if not impossible. And that's now, with low house prices.


----------



## erkq




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JustMike*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23393907
> 
> 
> If I could have done it, I would have built a projection booth, soundproofed the hell out of it, installed dedicated cooling, and put the equipment racks in there along with the projector. A good-quality optical port is expensive, but my options on projectors were very constrained by the need for extreme quiet. With what I spent on the projector, I definitely could have paid for the port and the construction of the booth.
> 
> 
> The problem for me was the layout and size of the room, which prevented doing the booth approach.



I did a projection booth and am very glad I did. But I did not spend a lot of money on a glass port. Instead I built a short tunnel that extends back to the lens ring on the projector and seals around it with weather stripping. It works very well.


----------



## design1stcode2nd

As always it's location, location, location. I can get 2x-3x the size of my home and 3x-4x the amount of land just by driving 60 minutes from where I am now.


The closer you are to a major metropolitan area the more expensive it is, unless that area is in severe decline such as Detroit.


$250k in my area will only net you a 30-40yr old, 1,500sq ft split-foyer on less than a quarter acre, and it will need work.; and I'm in the burbs!


----------



## BIGmouthinDC




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *design1stcode2nd*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/760_40#post_23398028
> 
> 
> 
> $250k in my area will only net you a 30-40yr old, 1,500sq ft split-foyer on less than a quarter acre, and it will need work.; and I'm in the burbs!



In my area that might just get you a lot.


----------



## 235

When you have a contractor building your room make sure you have checkpoints after each day of work. I spent a lot of time agonizing over the design details for soundproofing the room. After the ceiling OSB went up on the whisper clips I checked for any coupling and everything was just fine. After the OSB walls went up I checked to make sure there were no large gaps between ceiling and wall but didn't think of double-checking the ceiling from outside the room. The contractor cut the walls too long and this caused the perimeter of the ceiling to be pushed up until it made contact with the joists: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1383183/235-build/300_60#post_23391628 . I didn't notice this until after the drywall layers and mud/tape had gone up


----------



## design1stcode2nd




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23398412
> 
> 
> In my area that might just get you a lot.



Yes, I'm in farm country compared to NOVA.


One thing I would have done a bit differently is to do a detailed list of everything I'd need. Go through all he items that would be in the theater, how they would be built and get a good grasp on how much all of that will be. It adds up so quickly even if you are doing a modest space.


Also I'd recommend not compromising on the main seating area. Make sure you are in the sweet spot and then let the chips fall where they may for any extra seating. 95% of the time there are only two people in the theater so I made sure my side surrounds where going to be exactly in-line with where my head would be when I reclined.


I also get the seat that is in-line with the sub


----------



## acras13




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *design1stcode2nd*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23398028
> 
> 
> As always it's location, location, location. I can get 2x-3x the size of my home and 3x-4x the amount of land just by driving 60 minutes from where I am now.
> 
> 
> The closer you are to a major metropolitan area the more expensive it is, unless that area is in severe decline such as Detroit.
> 
> 
> $250k in my area will only net you a 30-40yr old, 1,500sq ft split-foyer on less than a quarter acre, and it will need work.; and I'm in the burbs!





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *BIGmouthinDC*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_23398412
> 
> 
> In my area that might just get you a lot.



In my area that would buy a really nice car , that you could drive out to a $250,000 neighborhood , and that is why I'm a renter . I love reading through all of these , even if most of these don't apply to my apartment .


----------



## avtexan

I would mark my channel locations before I put in my electrical and low volt boxes. I had to move several boxes that fell right were the channels fell.


----------



## BroncoSport

When wiring the AC in my room, I ran a dedicated string of romex back to the sub panel, just for the subwoofer locations. I also have 2 20amp circuits ran to the AV rack. I wish, NOW, that I had run the subwoofer circuits back to the AV rack so I could 1) run the AC through my line conditioner / surge protector and 2) place a 12v trigger to the voltage going to the sub.


I bought and have installed a separate surge protector for the sub, but I don't like leaving the sub in "standby" and would prefer it be turned of and on as we use the theater.


----------



## design1stcode2nd

I'd run a cat cable to my rack, regardless of how much I thought at the time I wouldn't need it, actually I'd run two.


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## nashoomoo

I wouldn't put any stud on center of wall, which is 3 feet. This way i would have more absorption. Fewer studs. The GG works better.


----------



## nashoomoo

I would build double wall. With furring channel and clips. Good to know "a double wall is not only for decaupling it can be used for just a 'sound blocker'."

It is a portable booth on caster wheels. Double DW with GG in the outside. DIY door,(2 MDF GG in between,and insulation.)

I still didn't put DD GG inside. You can hear. It is quieter though.

If i would make it Double Wall 3 gap in between it would be better.

I also put general weather sealing for the door.

Should GOD help me out.


----------



## BroncoSport

Thought of a couple more "do it differently" things:


I would have installed dedicated joists for the ceiling on my theater, resting on the decoupled walls. I just used clips and track on the existing floor joist above and if someone in a hard walker or jumps on the floor above, the projector shakes and I can hear it when the sound is off or low in the theater.


I would also have used OSB for the first layer in my wall sandwich! Having to carefully measure, add and caulk the boo boo holes trying to hit the hat track ...was a PITA and I could have avoided it by decking everything with OSB first.


----------



## Krell789

I wish I would have installed conduit to all of my speakers so I could have upgraded my wires. I did it with my AV Rack to my display, It just never crossed my mind to do it for the speakers, that was a mistake.also forgetting to install proper ventilation for Equipment rack, I did it after the fact, which was a pain in the butt.


----------



## mtbdudex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Krell789*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/780#post_24253406
> 
> 
> I wish I would have installed conduit to all of my speakers so I could have upgraded my wires. I did it with my AV Rack to my display, It just never crossed my mind to do it for the speakers, that was a mistake.also forgetting to install proper ventilation for Equipment rack, I did it after the fact, which was a pain in the butt.










why? Hopefully you installed the proper size gage and in wall rated wire during construction.

I can't think of a need to upgrade speaker wire post build.....
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


----------



## nathan_h

not sure if i have posted this before but i would definitely put the door where the screen/front row gap is.


i had the choice since i was building a room within a room.


but even if i wasn't i would try to choose a layout the places the door in that space.


my door is next to the front row of seats and it wastes seating space there/makes it tight walking in and out of the room.


or at least i'd have the door open OUTWARDS from the theater....


----------



## Krell789

Sorry I haven't gotten back to your response. I under went a medical procedure that day wasn't feeling very good afterward. The speaker wire is designed to go in the wall it's 12 gauge wire. That's the minimum requirement that Martin Logan recommends to be connected to there speakers. Or you can go with a thicker gauge wire to bring out the best performance from there speakers. And since I did not have conduit going towards the speakers there's no way that's going to happen. It's simply a matter of choice, flexibility if you will.


----------



## osufhall


It took me sometime with actually having the room setup to finally decide where I best liked all my equipment. Thankfully nothing is too permanently installed (yet) but I did run speaker wire *Under *installed carpeting to hide it. (in a finished basement) That took a LONG time and now I will have to redo it. Biggest reason I haven't moved stuff to where I really would like it. (my component rack)


----------



## redjr

Know your limitations! We're not all skilled in every craft. At least I'm not. I got a local guy to help with the framing. Best $40/hr I spent. Get a pro to tape and mud the drywall too. It will be money well spent. I'm just about at that stage, but have done it before and was glad I paid someone who knew what they were doing. Put in more electrical box than you think you'll need. I hate extension cords. If you'll be using a big, wide-screen TV, put in a 4' x 2 x 10 in the middle of your TV wall. Then anchor the TV mount to piece when installing. It will never come off. My new plasma is 120 lbs!









 



- Rick


----------



## Mfusick

Someone really needs to create a bullet point list of these items in this thread as list of "watch out for this" for new builders. Some excellent suggestions in this thread.


----------



## redjr

Since my space will be used as a multi-purpose room, I've included a lot of extra things that you would not normally find in a dedicated HT. Like running 20-amp service to every outlet, locating outlet boxes at desk-height, cabling for 2, or more complete audio systems (vintage & modern), and multiple sets of speakers to be jacked in/out at will. My total space also includes an electronics workshop that will also house the servers and all communications gear, along with a structured media enclosure.


I'm taking it very slow because I didn't engineer every cable run and type and have opted (by default I guess) to design as I go along. Not the smartest move, but I think we (my son and I) have just about thought of everything and have accommodated for it now. So, in retrospect, I would have 'architected' all of my structured media cabling needs much more thoroughly and taken the extra time to plan it out properly. As it stands, I haven't forgotten any big item, but let's just say, Monoprice had made a lot of money over the past 3 months from me - including late night orders for something we discovered we needed.







Not the most most efficient use of my time, and/or shipping $. - Rick


----------



## redjr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *blipszyc*  /t/855958/what-id-do-differently-next-time/720#post_22525761
> 
> 
> Now that I'm pretty much done with the framing, soundproofing and soon to be drywall - my "WIDDNT" would be to hire someone else to do it all! I'm getting too old for all this manual labor and it's not getting done fast enough for my wife.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping this is my last theater for a while, which means if I do move and need a 3rd one, I'll definitely be too old for DIY.


Haha blip. I understand completely. My space started in earnest last December and I just had my rough and electrical inspection last week. They both passed! Now my son and I are trying to finish up all the structured wiring and insulating. You are right, I won't being doing this again. It's my last mancave.







Rick


----------



## ScAndal

one thing I'd do differently is make my stage about 12" deeper. After every movie my kids (2 and 4) go up and dance to the ending songs and would love for them to have a bit more room.

I'm not sure what is more entertaining: the movie, or the dance party


----------



## Nightlord

What I'd do differently next time? I'd just not do it! If I'd known what I had to do and what it would cost, I would definitely not have started it!

If we skip that part, I'd definitely give more concern to soundproofing to begin with, it caused me a teardown and rebuild since it wasn't good enough to begin with...


----------



## just jim

Nightlord said:


> What I'd do differently next time? I'd just not do it! If I'd known what I had to do and what it would cost, I would definitely not have started it!
> 
> If we skip that part, I'd definitely give more concern to soundproofing to begin with, it caused me a teardown and rebuild since it wasn't good enough to begin with...


A bitter pill to swallow. But there was something I heard recently about "the decision you never make". If you hadn't started, you would always wish you had. And when you finally get the space up and running, the memory of $$$ lost will fade as you sit back in your comfy chairs with your family and friends and proudly enjoy what you created! At least that's what I tell myself!  No...that's what I tell my clients when I blow past their budget!!!

And a couple a wee drams and the pain will fade even faster...


----------



## agnathra

Nightlord said:


> What I'd do differently next time? I'd just not do it! If I'd known what I had to do and what it would cost, I would definitely not have started it!
> 
> If we skip that part, I'd definitely give more concern to soundproofing to begin with, it caused me a teardown and rebuild since it wasn't good enough to begin with...


that's tough. i know both theaters i've built in my house took longer, cost more, and required more work than i expected. but once the work is over and the bills are paid off, i'm so glad i did it. i wouldn't have a house without a dedicated theater at this point.

i guess i could see it if i took a $100k loan out or something, and would be living with that for another 15 years. but that would be true if i bought anything that big...it's not that a theater per se isn't worth it. you can have wonderful outcome for relatively little money. certainly little enough not to have these kinds of regrets, i think.


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## JustMike

Nightlord said:


> What I'd do differently next time? I'd just not do it! If I'd known what I had to do and what it would cost, I would definitely not have started it!
> 
> If we skip that part, I'd definitely give more concern to soundproofing to begin with, it caused me a teardown and rebuild since it wasn't good enough to begin with...


I felt that way at about the three-year mark. But the theater is essentially done now (four years total) and I'm just delighted with it.


----------



## Reefdvr27

3/4 through my project and I would have demolished my existing room to the ground and rebuilt it from the ground up. I would have also spent the money and bought plans. There are somethings now that I realized I made mistakes on, but not much I can do now. I have had thoughts if I am going to keep the house I may demo the room and rebuild it again the way I want in a couple of years, well see.


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## nathan_h

Reefdvr27 said:


> 3/4 through my project and I would have demolished my existing room to the ground and rebuilt it from the ground up. I would have also spent the money and bought plans. There are somethings now that I realized I made mistakes on, but not much I can do now. I have had thoughts if I am going to keep the house I may demo the room and rebuild it again the way I want in a couple of years, well see.


What are some of those things?


----------



## Reefdvr27

nathan_h said:


> What are some of those things?


 More 20 amp lines. I would have moved a door (rear entry door) I should have removed all the existing electric and started fresh. I placed my low voltage boxes to close to the where my screen is for height speakers. I bought new mains that are bigger and did not account for that for screen size. I would have done an AT screen. I kept two windows in the room and I should have removed them also. Just little things. I will have a nice little room, but it could have been better with some better planning I guess.


----------



## nathan_h

Reefdvr27 said:


> More 20 amp lines. I would have moved a door (rear entry door) I should have removed all the existing electric and started fresh. I placed my low voltage boxes to close to the where my screen is for height speakers, that is only because I bought new mains that are bigger and did not account for that. I would have done an AT screen. I kept two windows in the room and I should have removed them also. Just little things. I will have a nice little room, but it could have been better with some better planning I guess.


Thanks. Specifics like that really help make this thread invaluable. In fact, I'd almost say newbies and veterans should read this thread before any other about building a home theater.


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## smuggymba

I didn't get a dedicated circuit for my media room. I have a tract home with 2 15AMP (12 amps of current at 120 V) plugs where the equipment rack will be. That gives me 2X1440 = 2880 watts. Is that enough for PJ, receiver, Lumagen, Blu Ray and all the other good stuff?

There are other 15AMP plugs on the other walls also but I think I did a mistake by not having a dedicated circuit for the media room. 

what does everyone else do? Do you guys have a dedicated circuit for the media room? How many 15 AMP plugs do yo all have for the full equipment.


----------



## LeBon

smuggymba said:


> what does everyone else do? Do you guys have a dedicated circuit for the media room? How many 15 AMP plugs do yo all have for the full equipment.


Per Erskine Group recommendations, I am using a 240 V. 30 A. receptacle for all the equipment power. Then a step-down transformer which will handle a total of 5 KVA at 120 V. Thus all the equipment is on the same "phase".


----------



## smuggymba

LeBon said:


> Per Erskine Group recommendations, I am using a 240 V. 30 A. receptacle for all the equipment power. Then a step-down transformer which will handle a total of 5 KVA at 120 V. Thus all the equipment is on the same "phase".


thanks a lot. Do you know how much it would cost to pull a new circuit from the main to the media room via the attic in an already finished room?


----------



## LeBon

smuggymba said:


> thanks a lot. Do you know how much it would cost to pull a new circuit from the main to the media room via the attic in an already finished room?


No idea -- too many variables. Where I live, it takes a couple hundred $$ to just get an electrician to show up -- actual work is extra.


----------



## Reefdvr27

smuggymba said:


> I didn't get a dedicated circuit for my media room. I have a tract home with 2 15AMP (12 amps of current at 120 V) plugs where the equipment rack will be. That gives me 2X1440 = 2880 watts. Is that enough for PJ, receiver, Lumagen, Blu Ray and all the other good stuff?
> 
> There are other 15AMP plugs on the other walls also but I think I did a mistake by not having a dedicated circuit for the media room.
> 
> what does everyone else do? Do you guys have a dedicated circuit for the media room? How many 15 AMP plugs do yo all have for the full equipment.


I did 2 dedicated 20amp circuits for each of my subs. Each subs has a 4000watt amp, so I am treating them like monoblocks. I also did 1 20 amp circuit for the rack with existing 15 receptacles right there also. I also did a 30 amp line for the mini split AC unit. I would love to find a way to get a duct in that room because now I want that 30 amp circuit for my rack. 

If you are low key with an AVR, you will be fine, but you start getting into big amps, monoblocks or big subs, you are going to have to get some dedicated 20 amps lines in there.


----------



## Reefdvr27

smuggymba said:


> thanks a lot. Do you know how much it would cost to pull a new circuit from the main to the media room via the attic in an already finished room?


Depends, my guess would be about $300 bucks. The materials would depend how far you have to go from the breaker to the room. 100 foot of 12/2 wire would be around $90 or $100, $13 bucks for a breaker and $3 bucks for an outlet. So looking at about $100 to $120 in materials and labor. I had an electrician in for my hot tub. He ran a 50amp line with service panel and it was $900. All depends on who you get.


----------



## smuggymba

Thanks for the reply everyone. I guess it's a lesson learnt so all other newbies should pay attention about having a dedicated circuit while the house is being built.

I have 4 15AMP plugs on the front wall where there will be speakers and subs so I guess that should be ok. 

The 2 on the side for the equipment will basically be for PJ, Receiver, Blu-Ray, Lumagen so maybe it might just work out.


----------



## nathan_h

smuggymba said:


> Thanks for the reply everyone. I guess it's a lesson learnt so all other newbies should pay attention about having a dedicated circuit while the house is being built.
> 
> I have 4 15AMP plugs on the front wall where there will be speakers and subs so I guess that should be ok.
> 
> The 2 on the side for the equipment will basically be for PJ, Receiver, Blu-Ray, Lumagen so maybe it might just work out.


It's less about the number of plugs -- you can always use a power strip - and more about how big or how many circuits feed the plugs in the room. One 15 amp circuit or less, you may have trouble at some point. 

You'll find out quickly! The circuit breaker will trip and you'll know you need another circuit. 

But if you are using a regular thousand dollar receiver, and a sub in the thousand dollar range, no special giant amplifiers or giant multiple subs, and no plug in a/c or heaters, you may be okay.


----------



## smuggymba

nathan_h said:


> It's less about the number of plugs -- you can always use a power strip - and more about how big or how many circuits feed the plugs in the room. One 15 amp circuit or less, you may have trouble at some point.
> 
> You'll find out quickly! The circuit breaker will trip and you'll know you need another circuit.
> 
> But if you are using a regular thousand dollar receiver, and a sub in the thousand dollar range, no special giant amplifiers or giant multiple subs, and no plug in a/c or heaters, you may be okay.


On the front wall, where the speakers and Subs will be, there are 4 15amp plugs, so I should be covered.

Near the equipment rack, I just have 2 so when I get the equipment, I'll have to be careful of the wattage. Lesson learned for the next house


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## LastButNotLeast

The point nathan is making is that, if those plugs are all on the same *circuit*, you may run into trouble. Sometimes (probably very often) an entire room is wired to one circuit breaker. For most rooms, that's not usually a problem. But we don't have "most rooms," do we?!


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## nathan_h

LastButNotLeast said:


> The point nathan is making is that, if those plugs are all on the same *circuit*, you may run into trouble. Sometimes (probably very often) an entire room is wired to one circuit breaker. For most rooms, that's not usually a problem. But we don't have "most rooms," do we?!


Right, I've got a 14 20amp plugs in my room. But only two circuits drive them.

I've got 8 20amp plugs in my gear closet, but four separate circuits.


----------



## Nightlord

agnathra said:


> that's tough. i know both theaters i've built in my house took longer, cost more, and required more work than i expected. but once the work is over and the bills are paid off, i'm so glad i did it. i wouldn't have a house without a dedicated theater at this point.


Of course I'll be happy too, but if I'd had the choice upfront how much it would costin money and lost family(kid) time, I think I would have postponed until the kids had left the nest. I cannot ever get that time back.... They've grown so quickly. Little kid just today explained to Mom why we needed all the layers in the cinema walls, so he has been listening even if he can be rather hard to call on whether he listens or not. But that made Dad quite happy to know. I hope I can get it to working state soon - daughter is startingto ask about Lord of the Rings and I much rather show it in the cinema than on a 50" tv (Kuro or not)...


----------



## redjr

I guess we could 'plan to death' and never get anything built! That's almost what happened to me. And now almost a year later and I'm finally finishing up the trim and other details. I had a blank slate to work with after I demo'd what horrible framing of 2x3's were already there. I knew in my head what I wanted, but no professional plans. I did most of the work myself including electrical. I wasn't finishing just one room, but for the most part the entire basement - save the boiler/storage room. I also had the pros in to mud, tape and cornerbead the drywall I put up. Wasn't about to do that.

I'm a real stickler when it comes to power and didn't want to skimp there. I had decided to put all wall sockets on 20-amp circuits and all ceiling lighting on 15-amp. In my media room/office alone I have 4, 20A circuits driving 4 dedicated zones of power, and a 5th 30-amp circuit for my mini-split heat pump. I don't have any exotic gear that requires that much available power, but it's there if I need and want it. I don't want the lights to ever dim, for any reason! I installed a 100-amp sub-panel that feeds the 12 circuits for the entire basement. Never worked with #2 gauge wire before. That was fun! I let an electrician hook it up to my mains panel. 

So far I'm happy, but it's a project I want to end too!


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## LoudDad

*Power/Amps to your room*

All you guys are talking about how much power you ran to your rooms and that's great.
RedJr, seems like you have a total of about 125 amps running to your room on the different circuits (but obviously limited to 100 by your panel).
My question is, did you guys actually need to upgrade the service to your house?
I think I have 200 amps coming into my main panel for the entire service for my house.
I can easily just run a 100 amp sub-panel for the theater, but I'm wondering if that's been a problem for anyone and they actually needed to upgrade their service from the street.


Thanks,
Bill.


----------



## Tnedator

LoudDad said:


> All you guys are talking about how much power you ran to your rooms and that's great.
> RedJr, seems like you have a total of about 125 amps running to your room on the different circuits (but obviously limited to 100 by your panel).
> My question is, did you guys actually need to upgrade the service to your house?
> I think I have 200 amps coming into my main panel for the entire service for my house.
> I can easily just run a 100 amp sub-panel for the theater, but I'm wondering if that's been a problem for anyone and they actually needed to upgrade their service from the street.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill.


That's probably going to depend on the current load in your house, along with the equipment going in your HT room. For instance, do you have a electric strip heating, all electric appliances (vs gas heating and gas range, etc.). How many and what types of AC units, etc. You could be sitting at a max load of 100 amps with all of your current electric loads, or could be sitting at 190 amps (probably not this tight), which would determine whether or not you need additional service. 

So, there really is no way to answer that without knowing more about your house, HVAC units (size, LRA/FLA), etc. 

Now, me and electricity are not friends (I've just had to throw myself into amp loads lately for both a work generator and new home where I'll get a generator), but my understanding is the only thing that matters is the load of your equipment. Meaning, you could have 100 15 amp breakers in breaker boxes, which would be 1500 amps if all of them were drawing full, being driven by a 200 amp service, if at any given time you didn't surpass 200 amps.


----------



## redjr

LoudDad said:


> All you guys are talking about how much power you ran to your rooms and that's great.
> RedJr, seems like you have a total of about 125 amps running to your room on the different circuits (but obviously limited to 100 by your panel).
> My question is, did you guys actually need to upgrade the service to your house?
> I think I have 200 amps coming into my main panel for the entire service for my house.
> I can easily just run a 100 amp sub-panel for the theater, but I'm wondering if that's been a problem for anyone and they actually needed to upgrade their service from the street.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill.


I don't think my max load will ever overrun my sub-panel. Not only is it about load, it's also about convenience. I just wanted to have more available outlets than normal. So I ran more circuits with fewer outlets. In my particular situation I knew it was overkill, but the stratgey I wanted to deploy nonetheless.

Don't get me wrong, between my son and I we have a lot of computer and audio gear, so in that regard we're probably not normal.  He's running a 1kw PSU in his gaming rig upstairs! In my reno I also included a small electronics shop next to my media room where I didn't want to skimp on power either. Bottom line is - we'll likely never have all the stuff on at the same time, so I'm not really worried about tipping the scale on our 200amp main service panel.

I did not upgrade service from the road, but it was a question I posed to my electrical inspector before I started. I was originally planning on having a 60-amp breaker feeding my sub-panel, but since I wired with #2 gauge SER grade cable, I decided at the last minute to have the electrician put in a 100amp breaker in the main service panel. I just got the last couple of circuits wired up last night. I have two electric baseboard heaters (220v) that still need to be installed in the rec room though.


----------



## smuggymba

One thing I'd do differently is get better education and job so I have enough money to buy the equipment I really like..LOL.


----------



## Reefdvr27

smuggymba said:


> One thing I'd do differently is get better education and job so I have enough money to buy the equipment I really like..LOL.


If I am reading right, do you have a MBA? Should be doing pretty well with that.


----------



## smuggymba

Reefdvr27 said:


> If I am reading right, do you have a MBA? Should be doing pretty well with that.


But I want a 100K system...LOL . With MBA you get a 35K system with all other interests and necessities. Maybe a lawyer or doc next time


----------



## redjr

smuggymba said:


> But I want a 100K system...LOL . With MBA you get a 35K system with all other interests and necessities. Maybe a lawyer or doc next time


Any job today is a good job.


----------



## AllenA07

smuggymba said:


> Maybe a lawyer or doc next time


This lawyer doesn't have a $35,000 system. Shoot for the doctor!


----------



## smuggymba

AllenA07 said:


> This lawyer doesn't have a $35,000 system. Shoot for the doctor!


LOL.

I'm saving towards 35K now, hopefully I'll at least have 35K room soon.


----------



## AlphaCentaurus

hdtheater said:


> I would have stuck my center channel below the screen and fire it through the GOM instead of pay for a perforated screen that gives off a MOIRE pattern. Not much you can do to fix that.


MOIRE pattern ?
many people prefer perforated since the center peaker is at the right height


----------



## kmhvball

LeBon said:


> Per Erskine Group recommendations, I am using a 240 V. 30 A. receptacle for all the equipment power. Then a step-down transformer which will handle a total of 5 KVA at 120 V. Thus all the equipment is on the same "phase".


Can you explain this one?? I have a 10/3 (white, red, black, and neutral) wire, hooked up to a 30 amp circuit breaker run to my AVS equipment closet... I am just frankly, not sure how to use it!! I had an existing 30 amp breaker that I wasn't going to use for the original intent, so, just re purposed it for my AVS closet. I am just not exactly sure how to terminate the closet end. I am not sure what a step down transformer is and how it would work (e.g., do I shook up a 4 prong outlet to terminate the wire in the closet, and the transformer plugs into that - and the transformer has 'normal' plugs on it???)


----------



## LeBon

kmhvball said:


> ...I am not sure what a step down transformer is and how it would work (e.g., do I shook up a 4 prong outlet to terminate the wire in the closet, and the transformer plugs into that - and the transformer has 'normal' plugs on it???)


Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it. 
Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...-systems/isocenter-isolation-transformer.aspx 
I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resources/white-papers.aspx


----------



## Tnedator

LeBon said:


> Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it.
> Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...-systems/isocenter-isolation-transformer.aspx
> I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
> Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resources/white-papers.aspx


Any idea how the EP-Core-5R and Middle Atlantic ISOCTR-5R-240-2 compare? If I remember correctly (I'm not quite to equipment purchase phase) that Middle Atlantic is quite a bit less expensive than Exactpower.


----------



## kmhvball

LeBon said:


> Basically the step down transformer steps the 240 V. 30A down to 120 V. 60A, and all 60A ends up on the same "phase". I will put a NEMA 6-30R 240V. receptacle in the equipment closet, and plug the rack-mounted step-down transformer/power distribution box into it.
> Here is a link to a step-down transformer - http://www.middleatlantic.com/produ...-systems/isocenter-isolation-transformer.aspx
> I will be using the Powercore EP-Core-5R here - http://www.exactpower.com/products/rmpcore/rmpcore.aspx
> Take a look at the white paper on power distribution here - http://www.middleatlantic.com/resources/white-papers.aspx


Thanks for the Info! Looks like you have a Volt... I have one too... my 're-purposed' 30 amp circuit was initially intended for an electric car charger. I ended up running a 50 amp circuit instead, in case I get a 'faster charging' electric car in the future! Unfortunately, the Volt's built in inverter, limits the charging speed some. I love the car though!


----------



## AlphaCentaurus

pcarey said:


> my lessons learned list starts off with "hire Dennis" but the main things I kicked myself about where:
> 
> 1. Cutting 9 holes in my double dryway with greenglue for lights - idiot!! The thing is like swiss cheese in the ceiling.


Look at this superb idea for lighting...MDF and LED on each side...no holes !
I'm planning on doing this for my project...I found this on Houzz


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## blipszyc

I like that carpet. (The lighting too, but that's too involved for my current project, maybe theater #4 )


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## granroth

AlphaCentaurus said:


> Look at this superb idea for lighting...MDF and LED on each side...no holes !
> I'm planning on doing this for my project...I found this on Houzz
> [snip]


Which is very nice looking, no doubt, but it absolutely requires a white or near white ceiling to serve as an indirect light source. White is rarely considered an acceptable ceiling color for theaters.


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## LeBon

Tnedator said:


> Any idea how the EP-Core-5R and Middle Atlantic ISOCTR-5R-240-2 compare? If I remember correctly (I'm not quite to equipment purchase phase) that Middle Atlantic is quite a bit less expensive than Exactpower.


That is correct. However, the EP-Core-5R has switched outlets, which I need for my QSC Amps and JBL powered subs. The Powercore also has more monitoring bells and whistles. There will be a 6 kVA UPS ahead of the Powercore, and also a standby generator out back. "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."


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## LeBon

kmhvball said:


> Thanks for the Info! Looks like you have a Volt... I have one too... my 're-purposed' 30 amp circuit was initially intended for an electric car charger. I ended up running a 50 amp circuit instead, in case I get a 'faster charging' electric car in the future! Unfortunately, the Volt's built in inverter, limits the charging speed some. I love the car though!


Yes, I have a 2011 Volt #579 . I love the car. In my remodel, I too am running 50A charger circuits in the garage for future (even thought the Volt EVSE only uses a 20A breaker).


----------



## AlphaCentaurus

granroth said:


> Which is very nice looking, no doubt, but it absolutely requires a white or near white ceiling to serve as an indirect light source. White is rarely considered an acceptable ceiling color for theaters.


Maybe I'll put White LED on a black cealing
I'll buy RGB LED so I can change if needed


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## Tnedator

LeBon said:


> That is correct. However, the EP-Core-5R has switched outlets, which I need for my QSC Amps and JBL powered subs. The Powercore also has more monitoring bells and whistles. There will be a 6 kVA UPS ahead of the Powercore, and also a standby generator out back. "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."


Yea, that's what Dennis spec'd for me as well, but I'm busting my budget on the room build, so am having to skimp on equipment. I was considering holding off on the step down transformer, but that Mid Atlantic looks interesting. 

What I didn't realize until I was just trying to find reviews, is that Middle Atlantic owns ExactPower. At least it's another choice, but I have a little while before I need to decide.


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## roccoleach

I'd run conduit to all the locations my speakers will be, one to the riser and one to the PJ(the last one I actually did). I'd also have planned the theater before the house and moved the bathroom which is the perfect spot for a equipment room


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## redjr

I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!  
While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!

I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face.  - Rick


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## blipszyc

redjr said:


> I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!
> While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!
> 
> I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face.  - Rick


It's always a balance isn't it? After going through 2 myself, with the 2nd a full DIY and full blown soundproofing, I said that if I had to do it again I'd hire someone. Well, here I am, with the need for a 3rd, and after talking to 3 different contractors, I'm going the DIY route again. Despite my relatively detailed plans, none of the 3 could translate what I wanted into an estimate that 1) made me feel comfortable with what the end result would be and 2) was reasonably priced. I knew going the contractor route would be more expensive, but some of the quotes were ridiculous. This time around I needed 2 walls cleared of drywall, 2 new framed walls, DD all over, carpet and an exterior door turned inside out and as soon as I put the word "theater" out there, the quotes jumped by 10K. Most of the quotes were more than putting a whole new bathroom in on our 2nd floor where a 2 story foyer once stood.


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## Reefdvr27

redjr said:


> I'd allow much more time - especially if you're slogging thru, doing everything yourself and basically making it a 'weekend warrior' project! Finding the time after work, weekend duty, raising a family and the required ENERGY is no match for having a contractor doing everything. Of course, having a contractor do it is no match for your wallet either!
> While I didn't have a set schedule, it still took much longer than thought. 10 months later and I'm finally seeing the finishing tasks coming together. Carpet comes next week. Yippee!
> 
> I do enjoy the reward and personal satisfaction of having accomplished it and saying to myself, "I built that". I also marvel at the finished product with respect to how far it came from just a bare, empty basement. It does put a nice smile on my face.  - Rick


 I agree. First thing anybody building a theater should know that it is a long process and plan on a year. If you are in a hurry, then buy a house with a theater 

Congrats on your progress. I also have carpet coming next week. Would have been here last week except I had a minor setback. I should be close to done by next weekend.


----------



## Tnedator

I posted about this in my build thread (Bacchus Palace), but will briefly mention here. 

I was using open cell foam in my entire house (stud bays and roof deck). In the HT, Erskine wanted no more than 3" of foam, leaving 2.5" clear (2x6 wall) for them to put their R13 fiberglass batts. For this reason, to make sure I could a good air barrier and R-value at least as high as the rest of the house, I went with closed cell foam in the home theater. 

I went over the thickness requirement no less than five times verbally with the foam guy and three times in writing/email, which he acknowledged. When it came time to spray, the owner of the company didn't supervise, and they sprayed 4.5-5.5 in about 60+% of the wall area (440 WSF) on the two exterior walls where they sprayed. 

I found out the week before the Erskine Group was set to show up, and the foam guys told me they were going to trim it back. I talked to them the Saturday before (EG starting work on Tuesday), and they said, "don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." I show up mid-day Monday and it's still there. I call the foam guy and he explains that once this stuff sets up, it's almost impossible to remove without grinding it out, he suggested I firr out the walls 2" and he would pay for that cost. I explained that my aisles were already so tight, that even 2" would be impossible (I was trying to have a curved row of seats). 

Anyway, long story, short. My contractors and I spent about 4 hours using every tool they had or could buy locally (hand saws, reciprocal saws, planers, etc.) to trim this stuff back, and while all of it would make a dent, it would have probably taken 10-12 hours of solid work to get it done. They do make some specialty tools for trimming back closed cell foam (we didn't have it, and at the time, my foam guy didn't - he does now, too late for me). 

If the week earlier, I hadn't taken the foam guys word, and started my contractors on it, we probably could have trimmed it back either by ordering in some tools, or just taking several days to do it (except the places where gas lines and electric (gas lanterns on exterior garage wall) had been pushed to the front of the foam (this closed cell stuff is nasty to work with). In the end, I ran out of time, and told them to firr out the walls about 1.75" (2x4 ripped down the center), which gave us the amount of space we were originally supposed to have for fiberglass. 

If you opt to go with a 2-3" of closed cell foam (better air/vapor barrier at that thinness than open cell foam -- it's actually a vapor barrier, which open cell isn't), then make sure, maybe even get in writing, that they know the maximum thickness, but more importantly, do it early enough that if it needs to be trimmed back, you have lots of time to force the foam guy to trim it back. 

For me, what this has meant is I had to switch from curved seating to straight seating. I was right on the edge for aisle width with the curved seating as it was originally designed, and then I took away 2" going to 2x6 construction on the exterior wall and then nearly another 2" when I firred out for the foam mistake. While 3 3/4" doesn't sound like a lot, my aisle right where the columns were was so tight, making each side 2" narrower just crossed a threshold and just made it too tight.


----------



## roccoleach

Tnedator said:


> I posted about this in my build thread (Bacchus Palace), but will briefly mention here.
> 
> I was using open cell foam in my entire house (stud bays and roof deck). In the HT, Erskine wanted no more than 3" of foam, leaving 2.5" clear (2x6 wall) for them to put their R13 fiberglass batts. I went over this no less than five times verbally with the foam guy and three times in writing/email, that he acknowledged. When it came time to spray, the owner of the company didn't supervise, and they sprayed 4.5-5.5 in about 60+% of the wall area (440 WSF) on the two exterior walls where they sprayed.
> 
> I found out the week before the Erskine Group was set to show up, and the foam guys told me they were going to trim it back. I talked to them the Saturday before (EG starting work on Tuesday), and they said, "don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." I show up mid-day Monday and it's still there. I call the foam guy and he explains that once this stuff sets up, it's almost impossible to remove without grinding it out, he suggested I firr out the walls 2" and he would pay for that cost. I explained that my aisles were already so tight, that even 2" would be impossible (I was trying to have a curved row of seats).
> 
> Anywa, long story, short. My contractors and I spent about 4 hours using every tool they had or could buy locally (hand saws, reciprocal saws, planers, etc.) to trim this stuff back, and while all of it would make a dent, it would have probably taken 10-12 hours of solid work to get it done. They do make some specialty tools for trimming back closed cell foam (we didn't have it, and at the time, my foam guy didn't - he does now, too late for me).
> 
> If the week earlier, I hadn't taken the foam guys word, and started my contractors on it, we probably could have trimmed it back either by ordering in some tools, or just taking several days to do it (except the places where gas lines and electric (gas lanterns on exterior garage wall) had been pushed to the front of the foam (this closed cell stuff is nasty to work with). In the end, I ran out of time, and told them to firr out the walls about 1.75" (2x4 ripped down the center), which gave us the amount of space we were originally supposed to have for fiberglass.
> 
> If you opt to go with a 2-3" of closed cell foam (better air/vapor barrier at that thinness than open), then make sure, maybe even get in writing, that they know the maximum thickness, but more importantly, do it early enough that if it needs to be trimmed back, you have lots of time to force the foam guy to trim it back.
> 
> For me, what this has meant is I had to switch from curved seating to straight seating. I was right on the edge for aisle width with the curved seating as it was originally designed, and then I took away 2" going to 2x6 construction on the exterior wall and then nearly another 2" when I firred out for the foam mistake. While 3 3/4" doesn't sound like a lot, my aisle right where the columns were was so tight, making each side 2" narrower just crossed a threshold and just made it too tight.



I had open cell foam, I could simply push it back and compress it about that much... Was it icynene? I wonder if there are different types of open cell spray foam? That sucks man... Another benefit to DIY: work at whatever pace you want (even if it is 2 years)


----------



## Tnedator

roccoleach said:


> I had open cell foam, I could simply push it back and compress it about that much... Was it icynene? I wonder if there are different types of open cell spray foam? That sucks man... Another benefit to DIY: work at whatever pace you want (even if it is 2 years)


My bad, in the first paragraph I wasn't clear that I did open cell (same as icynene) in the entire house, but because I was going to be limited to 3" give or take in the home theater, I opted for closed cell in the home theater. Where open cell is a soft/spongy material that you can compress or tear out, closed cell winds up more like a cross between styrofoam and fiberglass when it hardens. It can be cut, but it's not easy, especially when you are working in the stud bays.


----------



## roccoleach

they used 6" of closed cell for the "cold room" in my job, that sits at 35 degrees F all the time. i imagine yours is pretty damn well insulated now


----------



## Tnedator

roccoleach said:


> they used 6" of closed cell for the "cold room" in my job, that sits at 35 degrees F all the time. i imagine yours is pretty damn well insulated now


In the end we probably wound up with an average of about 4" of closed cell on the two outside theater walls. On the other two walls, there is R13 batts for sound, one wall is adjacent to living space, the other an unvented attic that has 9" of open cell foam. The attic above (unvented) has 9" of open cell foam. Their is R19 in the space between the home theater and garage, and then the garage walls are all 2x6 filled with open cell foam. The garage doors will be R18 I believe insulated doors, and the garage has a mini-split HVAC unit.

So, considering bonus rooms (which is what the home theater space technically is) are typically the hardest to heat/cool, I think the way we've insulated/conditioned around it, I should be in good shape. 

I do have a small wine cellar and it's taking an approach similar your rob's cold room. It will have about 6" of closed cell in the walls, and then about 6" floors and ceilings (plus some additional open cell). So, in the ceiling, we have about 5" of open cell, and then 6" of closed cell (closest to the inside of the room) -- the opposite on the floor. This gives us a 6"+ shell of closed cell all the way around the room, but then just a little extra insulation outside that shell on the floor and ceiling. The whole reason for the 6" of closed cell forming what amounts to a 6" casing all around it, except for where there is wood framing, is to hopefully prevent any condensation between the cold 55" and warm 72" sides. In theory, if we don't have any air leakage and we have sealed it well, then I should have no problem.


----------



## blazar

In my next setup, i would get 3 avantgarde duo omega or trio omega speakers instead of just using a smaller center channel.

A huge acoustically transparent screen that covers all three speakers (this would need to be like a 200"+ diagonal that fills practically the whole wall). It would also need a major theater grade projector $$$. I hope the prices of pro-projectors falls in the future to make this possible.

Next round I will go for a 24 channel or more setup using crown or qsc amps for surrounds.


----------



## nathan_h

blazar said:


> In my next setup, i would get 3 avantgarde duo omega or trio omega speakers instead of just using a smaller center channel.
> 
> A huge acoustically transparent screen that covers all three speakers (this would need to be like a 200"+ diagonal that fills practically the whole wall). It would also need a major theater grade projector $$$. I hope the prices of pro-projectors falls in the future to make this possible.
> 
> Next round I will go for a 24 channel or more setup using crown or qsc amps for surrounds.


That sounds like a BIG room!


----------



## just jim

Tnedator said:


> I posted about this in my build thread (Bacchus Palace), but will briefly mention here.
> 
> I was using open cell foam in my entire house (stud bays and roof deck). In the HT, Erskine wanted no more than 3" of foam, leaving 2.5" clear (2x6 wall) for them to put their R13 fiberglass batts. For this reason, to make sure I could a good air barrier and R-value at least as high as the rest of the house, I went with closed cell foam in the home theater.
> 
> I went over the thickness requirement no less than five times verbally with the foam guy and three times in writing/email, which he acknowledged. When it came time to spray, the owner of the company didn't supervise, and they sprayed 4.5-5.5 in about 60+% of the wall area (440 WSF) on the two exterior walls where they sprayed.
> 
> I found out the week before the Erskine Group was set to show up, and the foam guys told me they were going to trim it back. I talked to them the Saturday before (EG starting work on Tuesday), and they said, "don't worry about it, we'll take care of it." I show up mid-day Monday and it's still there. I call the foam guy and he explains that once this stuff sets up, it's almost impossible to remove without grinding it out, he suggested I firr out the walls 2" and he would pay for that cost. I explained that my aisles were already so tight, that even 2" would be impossible (I was trying to have a curved row of seats).
> 
> Anyway, long story, short. My contractors and I spent about 4 hours using every tool they had or could buy locally (hand saws, reciprocal saws, planers, etc.) to trim this stuff back, and while all of it would make a dent, it would have probably taken 10-12 hours of solid work to get it done. They do make some specialty tools for trimming back closed cell foam (we didn't have it, and at the time, my foam guy didn't - he does now, too late for me).
> 
> If the week earlier, I hadn't taken the foam guys word, and started my contractors on it, we probably could have trimmed it back either by ordering in some tools, or just taking several days to do it (except the places where gas lines and electric (gas lanterns on exterior garage wall) had been pushed to the front of the foam (this closed cell stuff is nasty to work with). In the end, I ran out of time, and told them to firr out the walls about 1.75" (2x4 ripped down the center), which gave us the amount of space we were originally supposed to have for fiberglass.
> 
> If you opt to go with a 2-3" of closed cell foam (better air/vapor barrier at that thinness than open cell foam -- it's actually a vapor barrier, which open cell isn't), then make sure, maybe even get in writing, that they know the maximum thickness, but more importantly, do it early enough that if it needs to be trimmed back, you have lots of time to force the foam guy to trim it back.
> 
> For me, what this has meant is I had to switch from curved seating to straight seating. I was right on the edge for aisle width with the curved seating as it was originally designed, and then I took away 2" going to 2x6 construction on the exterior wall and then nearly another 2" when I firred out for the foam mistake. While 3 3/4" doesn't sound like a lot, my aisle right where the columns were was so tight, making each side 2" narrower just crossed a threshold and just made it too tight.


Couple of questions...
If you were using open cell foam throughout your house, how did you end up with closed cell foam in the theater?
If you ended up with 4 - 4.5" of closed cell foam, either they have no idea what they are doing or they sprayed in two passes with time in between. Spraying 4.5" of closed cell generates so much internal heat that it could actually catch fire!

FYI Any wires, gas lines (flexible) or anything that is not absolutely rigid has to be fastened to "something" so that it does not move!!! Especially 2lb foam (closed cell) will push them out and you ain't going to do anything about it later. The 1/2lb (open cell) will need to be trimmed and any wires beyond the face of the studs will get damaged. An experienced sprayer can hold the loose wires in place while he sprays one side of the stud space, by the time he is coming back up the foam is set and will hold the wire in. But don't rely on this happening. Fasten everything!
Closed cell foam is a vapour barrier if it wraps around the back of the stud, completely. If you have exposed wood on the back side of the stud, you need a super 6 mil poly vapour barrier. Wood is considered permeable to moisture. Open cell foam is not a vapour barrier.
Closed cell foam is rigid and transmits sound very well. Open cell foam has more of a deadening effect.
Closed cell foam actually deteriorates over the first few years, as the cells pop, lowering the effective R-value. Open cell foam deteriorates to a much less degree, losing less R-value. After 5 years you would be questioning if the extra dollars were worth it. Don't get me wrong there are times when the closed is the better choice.
Unlike the spray cans of foam, these two-part foams are expanded and set in seconds.


----------



## Tnedator

just jim said:


> Couple of questions...
> If you were using open cell foam throughout your house, how did you end up with closed cell foam in the theater?
> If you ended up with 4 - 4.5" of closed cell foam, either they have no idea what they are doing or they sprayed in two passes with time in between. Spraying 4.5" of closed cell generates so much internal heat that it could actually catch fire!
> 
> FYI Any wires, gas lines (flexible) or anything that is not absolutely rigid has to be fastened to "something" so that it does not move!!! Especially 2lb foam (closed cell) will push them out and you ain't going to do anything about it later. The 1/2lb (open cell) will need to be trimmed and any wires beyond the face of the studs will get damaged. An experienced sprayer can hold the loose wires in place while he sprays one side of the stud space, by the time he is coming back up the foam is set and will hold the wire in. But don't rely on this happening. Fasten everything!
> Closed cell foam is a vapour barrier if it wraps around the back of the stud, completely. If you have exposed wood on the back side of the stud, you need a super 6 mil poly vapour barrier. Wood is considered permeable to moisture. Open cell foam is not a vapour barrier.
> Closed cell foam is rigid and transmits sound very well. Open cell foam has more of a deadening effect.
> Closed cell foam actually deteriorates over the first few years, as the cells pop, lowering the effective R-value. Open cell foam deteriorates to a much less degree, losing less R-value. After 5 years you would be questioning if the extra dollars were worth it. Don't get me wrong there are times when the closed is the better choice.
> Unlike the spray cans of foam, these two-part foams are expanded and set in seconds.


Yes, it was done in at least two passes. I wasn't there for all of it, but I did stop by, before going out of town after they had done just a small part of the room, and I would guess they had done about 1.5"(on average) lift. They were supposed to make another pass and bring it to 3", 3.5" tops. 

What happened on the second lift was it was very non-uniform. So, in an given stud bay, half of it might have been close to the 3 - 3.5" mark, but then there were large sections that were out close to the face of the 2x6. Again, since I wasn't there, I'm not sure exactly how they managed to screw that up. Bottom line, once it was set, and they didn't have any tools to remove it from within the stud bays (a pain, but much easier to simply trim back to stud faces), that left us with our problem and not much time to address it. 

On choosing closed for the home theater it came down to a few things. Since I was only getting 3 - 3.5" of space to foam, I opted for closed cell, because it has a higher R-value (even aged, based on what I have read) than the open cell. The 3 - 3.5" of closed should roughly equal the 5.5" of open used else where. Now, while you could argue since I was also going to have R13 batts, I could have gone with open and the batts and been the same as the 5.5" of foam elsewhere -- which is true. However, since I already knew this "bonus room" location was going to be a challenge to cool, I wanted extra r-value. 

Also, the other advantage I saw to closed cell was that if they got thin in any spots with the open, I might not even have a good air barrier, where closed cell is a vapor barrier at 2.5" or so, so it would definately be a good air barrier. 

On the vapor barrier, I don't really need it, since I went with Zip system on my house, so there is a vapor barrier all around the house. That said, based on what I have read on building sciences foundation and other places, they do claim that studs act as a vapor barrier and that when used with closed cell foam, 6 mil polly isn't needed. It's been a while since I read that, so I couldn't point to exact articles, but I did read it in several places.


----------



## Zeegle

Here's a quick novice "oops": I didn't check if my basement floor was level. I now have a screen that's either perfectly parallel to the ceiling, perfectly parallel to the floor, or somewhere in between.

All of which are noticable/irk me.  Might be time to redo the drop ceiling.


----------



## Lickety

I had 4 large windows in my dedicated home theater. After much research I determined I could safely drywall over them. I read multiple posts where people suggested that I could pull the blinds down, stuff some insulation in the cavity and drywall the window. Sounded great, and looked fine from the outside. Problem is, the blinds that were already in the window were vinyl. After about 6 months of sun exposure, they have melted into a messy brown looking mess. Now, since I can't remove the windows from the outside, I need to cut into the drywall, rip out the blinds, and put something in its place. What a mess.... I dread getting drywall dust all over my carpet, screen wall, chairs, etc...


----------



## nathan_h

Lickety said:


> I had 4 large windows in my dedicated home theater. After much research I determined I could safely drywall over them. I read multiple posts where people suggested that I could pull the blinds down, stuff some insulation in the cavity and drywall the window. Sounded great, and looked fine from the outside. Problem is, the blinds that were already in the window where vinyl. After about 6 months of sun exposure, they have melted into a messy brown looking mess. Now, since I can't remove the windows from the outside, I need to cut into the drywall, rip out the blinds, and put something in its place. What a mess.... I dread getting drywall dust all over my carpet, screen wall, chairs, etc...


That sucks!

Although I don't have a smart solution for avoiding cutting into the drywall, it seems like it should be possible to get in from the outside but that might be more trouble and damage than it's worth.

But as to the drywall dust etc, definitely create a air tight space around the windows, using large sheets of plastic and lots of painter's tape. It should look like a hot zone, or like the house in ET when the government shows up. Or like one of Dexter's killing rooms. That will definitely help, and it's relatively cheap.


----------



## Lickety

I have had nightmares about being stuck in the "ET" zone sanding drywall after removing the blinds...

And to my other lesson learned - Don't do drywall. Hire that out!!!!


----------



## roccoleach

Buy good Fabric scissors, Don't use your fabric scissors to cut the Velcro.
Don't Forget to pay attention to the fact that your theater seats either recline forward or back, because that can totally mess up your riser plan...


----------



## kmhvball

roccoleach said:


> Don't Forget to pay attention to the fact that your theater seats either recline forward or back, because that can totally mess up your riser plan...


Explain this a bit more... I have read if I build my riser 6'8" total depth, I will be okay - regardless of the recline forward/back... that might just shift the chair towards the front or back of the riser.

Do I need to be concerned? I hope to build my riser next weekend.


----------



## roccoleach

kmhvball said:


> Explain this a bit more... I have read if I build my riser 6'8" total depth, I will be okay - regardless of the recline forward/back... that might just shift the chair towards the front or back of the riser.
> 
> Do I need to be concerned? I hope to build my riser next weekend.


Ok well my entrance is rear of the room and I have 13" columns in the back of the room to contain surround speakers. So I must be able to slide by the couches to enter the room. With a rear recline it would recline backwards and rest against the wall when occupied, but leave enough space to enter when upright. Now with forward recline it will hit the planned location of my bottom row, so I must split the rows. Although I have put the chair outlets center stage... So I'll have to have an offset split I guess :-(. Idk yet we'll see when I get there.


----------



## agnathra

Lickety said:


> I had 4 large windows in my dedicated home theater. After much research I determined I could safely drywall over them. I read multiple posts where people suggested that I could pull the blinds down, stuff some insulation in the cavity and drywall the window. Sounded great, and looked fine from the outside. Problem is, the blinds that were already in the window where vinyl. After about 6 months of sun exposure, they have melted into a messy brown looking mess. Now, since I can't remove the windows from the outside, I need to cut into the drywall, rip out the blinds, and put something in its place. What a mess.... I dread getting drywall dust all over my carpet, screen wall, chairs, etc...


similar problem...my windows are vinyl and the trapped heat has melted the frames. they are wavy, trim pieces are falling off, etc. will have to totally replace them.

fortunately i didn't drywall everything in, just used foam "plugs" covered in black felt. 

but it's not just blinds that can be damaged.


----------



## Tnedator

agnathra said:


> similar problem...my windows are vinyl and the trapped heat has melted the frames. they are wavy, trim pieces are falling off, etc. will have to totally replace them.
> 
> fortunately i didn't drywall everything in, just used foam "plugs" covered in black felt.
> 
> but it's not just blinds that can be damaged.


We are building, so I didn't have existing windows. However, the architect originally called for three windows in the area. I had originally considered putting blinds or curtains in real windows and then sheetrocking over them (simply to keep the look good for the outside of the house). By builder talked me out of it, due to concerns about if the window leaked or something like that and having no way to access and fix it. I took his advice and instead did some brick designs and window trim in those areas (just so there wouldn't be so much brick with nothing on it). 

Based on what you guys are describing, I'm real glad they talked me into going this route or I would be in the same boat as you guys.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

That sounds like a good idea. Pictures?


----------



## Tnedator

LastButNotLeast said:


> That sounds like a good idea. Pictures?


Was this question aimed at me or someone else? If me, then no pictures, because we haven't bricked that part of the house. Also, we are doing precast trim around our windows. So, for those three spots, we will do the pre-cast trim just like the other windows, but with a herringbone pattern of brick inside the precast trim. 

Don't get me wrong, nobody will mistake those for windows. Instead, it was supposed to just break up which would otherwise be big areas of brick and areas that looked like there should be windows.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

I'm certainly not interested in pictures of rotting frames and blinds. 
But pictures of alternative approaches to "fake" windows would probably be interesting.
Anyone use glass block and then cover that on the inside?


----------



## Sharken Beard

Very helpful, thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread!


----------



## skads_187

super thread, a lot of great ideas.

im running wires in wall at the moment.
what cables should i pass in wall for a possible future projector, i was going to do 2 x hdmi, a cat 6, what about vga? anything else?

because of the way the room is structured, it might be very difficult to run a conduit for future runs.


----------



## nathan_h

skads_187 said:


> super thread, a lot of great ideas.
> 
> im running wires in wall at the moment.
> what cables should i pass in wall for a possible future projector, i was going to do 2 x hdmi, a cat 6, what about vga? anything else?
> 
> because of the way the room is structured, it might be very difficult to run a conduit for future runs.


Definitely try to run a conduit. It will still be better than ripping out drywall in five years when standards have changed and none of your wire is adequate.

That said, the closest thing I have seen to future proof is CAT5/CAT6 cable. As far back as I can remember, there have been baluns you can install on each side to run just about any new or old signal over CAT5 cable.

Note, however, that CURRENT HDMI over CAT5 cable often wants two runs of CAT5. I can imagine a future where have three or four runs of CAT5 or CAT6 cable will be necessary for the bandwidth of future video standards.

And of course, you might want to use cat5 for network purposes 

So, I recommend you run FIVE runs of CAT6 to your projector area, just for future proofing (or as close to it as you can get).

But really, do a conduit, with a pull string, too.


----------



## nathan_h

And of course a HDMI run (or two) with high bandwidth in-wall rated hdmi cable is super important.


----------



## KanosWRX

nathan_h said:


> And of course a HDMI run (or two) with high bandwidth in-wall rated hdmi cable is super important.


So I agree with everyone, just run a conduit to the project. HDMI specs change pretty often, so in the next 4-5 years you will need a new one most likely.


----------



## skads_187

thanks guys, I will do my best, any recommendations on conduits that are under 2.5 inches?
actually, i might need smaller than that because of the hat channels and clips, problem is i have a beam that i cant put holes through, where I want to run the conduit.


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## just jim

skads_187 said:


> thanks guys, I will do my best, any recommendations on conduits that are under 2.5 inches?
> actually, i might need smaller than that because of the hat channels and clips, problem is i have a beam that i cant put holes through, where I want to run the conduit.


Depending on the size of the beam and the loading, you may be able to drill the beam. The web is there to separate the top and bottom flanges, which are doing most of the work. You would have to consult a structural engineer of course for the maximum size and location. Possibly money well spent if there are no other ways to run the conduit. I would run at least 2 conduits so that you don't have to pull everything back to add one new wire. I ran four 2" conduits in the concrete floor from the back of the room to the screen wall. Just to be sure. [I hope.] This also allows you to separate wire a bit in the event that anything has a magnetic field that could effect something else.


----------



## nathan_h

skads_187 said:


> thanks guys, I will do my best, any recommendations on conduits that are under 2.5 inches?
> actually, i might need smaller than that because of the hat channels and clips, problem is i have a beam that i cant put holes through, where I want to run the conduit.


whether you can notch the beam or not is something i have no clue about. 

but let's assume you cannot alter the beam at all.

you have enough room to run a naked cable around it. so run the conduit right up close to it on both sides, and be sure to have pull strings in the conduit. then, if you need to pull a cable later, you will probably be able to just traverse the empty space with a little lube and cajoling, and 95% of the run will still be in conduit.


----------



## BrolicBeast

Lickety said:


> I had 4 large windows in my dedicated home theater. After much research I determined I could safely drywall over them. I read multiple posts where people suggested that I could pull the blinds down, stuff some insulation in the cavity and drywall the window. Sounded great, and looked fine from the outside. Problem is, the blinds that were already in the window were vinyl. After about 6 months of sun exposure, they have melted into a messy brown looking mess. Now, since I can't remove the windows from the outside, I need to cut into the drywall, rip out the blinds, and put something in its place. What a mess.... I dread getting drywall dust all over my carpet, screen wall, chairs, etc...


In order to avoid all that drywall cutting, you can buy rolls of low-reflectivity mirror paper and cut them to the exact size of the top and bottom sections of each window, and just glue them right into the glass. Nobody walking by or driving by will know it isn't a window unless they're standing right in front of it. And even then, they'll be more intrigued than disturbed.

That, or you can permamently frost the glass from the outside (I'm not sure how that holds up to the elements). Option one it probably the best to deal with though.


----------



## just jim

BrolicBeast said:


> In order to avoid all that drywall cutting, you can buy rolls of low-reflectivity mirror paper and cut them to the exact size of the top and bottom sections of each window, and just glue them right into the glass. Nobody walking by or driving by will know it isn't a window unless they're standing right in front of it. And even then, they'll be more intrigued than disturbed.
> 
> That, or you can permamently frost the glass from the outside (I'm not sure how that holds up to the elements). Option one it probably the best to deal with though.


3-M makes window films that stick with a film of water and are removeable.


----------



## msdunkel

Dennis Erskine said:


> DO NOT buy equipment until you have the room design and acoustic design completed! Until that time you won't have a clue as to what the engineering specifications the speakers will need to meet. Rather like buying an engine for a boat before you design the boat. It could look like a real bargain until you find out the engine is the wrong size/type.


It worked for the A-10...  Built the gun then designed a plane to carry it. Uncle Sam has deeper pockets than the rest of us I suppose.


----------



## Dennis Erskine

msdunkel said:


> It worked for the A-10...  Built the gun then designed a plane to carry it. Uncle Sam has deeper pockets than the rest of us I suppose.


No, they did not.


----------



## redjr

Lickety said:


> ...And to my other lesson learned - Don't do drywall. Hire that out!!!!


Could not agree more. One has to know their own limitations when it comes to remodeling or any other 'weekend warrior' project. I don't regret for a minute that I hired my DW out. At least the taping, mudding and finishing. I did install it, but that went relatively easy, although still a big task. And my contractor did a bang-up job too. Really, really nice.


----------



## damelon

nathan_h said:


> whether you can notch the beam or not is something i have no clue about.
> 
> but let's assume you cannot alter the beam at all.
> 
> you have enough room to run a naked cable around it. so run the conduit right up close to it on both sides, and be sure to have pull strings in the conduit. then, if you need to pull a cable later, you will probably be able to just traverse the empty space with a little lube and cajoling, and 95% of the run will still be in conduit.


One other thing when it comes to conduit, if it not a straight run, do not use the normal 90 degree tubing elbows, make sure to use the gradual curved connectors so your cables feed through easily.


----------



## LeBon

damelon said:


> One other thing when it comes to conduit, if it not a straight run, do not use the normal 90 degree tubing elbows, make sure to use the gradual curved connectors so your cables feed through easily.


Known in the trade as a "long radius elbow" or a "wide sweep ell"


----------



## RiverSide

*Wait till I understand..*

I needed the space ready so just jumped into the basement finishing without a lot of planning. While learning as you go has its charm, it would have been better to have completely understood major theater building concepts. 

So instead of spending three months exclusively in the Digital Projectors + Speakers forums fretting about projector choice etc. I should have also been reading up the stickies in this forum + Audio Theory + stuff at gearslutz and similar places.


----------



## just jim

LeBon said:


> Known in the trade as a "long radius elbow" or a "wide sweep ell"


You can also make these sweeping bends by *patiently* heating the conduit while rotating the pipe and continually moving a heat gun (or more carefully, a plumber's torch) over a section of the PVC pipe until it softens enough to stretch without kinking. Hold it in the custom shape and splash cold water on it to speed up the hardening process with your third hand. I have bent up to 4" PVC pipe this way to get around obstacles where elbows would not have fit. This also eliminates the joints that the fish can get hung on.


----------



## JustMike

I would have made the stretched-fabric panels removable wherever there was a speaker behind them. It was a technical challenge to do this, so I opted not to. I believed that it was unlikely that there would be problems with the surround speakers, since they are passive, so no electronics to fail, etc. What we did do was to really pay attention to how they are mounted, ensuring there was no way for the speaker to vibrate, or for the speaker wires to contact the cabinetry or any other structure and vibrate.

Well, I ended up with a buzz in one of my surround speakers! So, I had to take the fabric down, which will require expert assistance to put it up again. It turned out that there was a loose screw on the back of the speaker, and it allowed the PCB for the speaker crossover to buzz when the speaker was energized with a particular frequency range.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

After a build like yours, to end up with such a dumb problem is a real shame.
More proof that **** happens.
Duct tape won't work?


----------



## JustMike

It is a bit vexing, but right you are. "Stuff" happens.  We did do extensive shake tests and tone sweeps before putting the fabric up, so I suspect that that screw either backed out a bit, or maybe the PCB was stuck on the standoff that holds it and eventually popped free.

I will be using some superglue on those screws before I put everything back together.


----------



## KanosWRX

JustMike said:


> I would have made the stretched-fabric panels removable wherever there was a speaker behind them. It was a technical challenge to do this, so I opted not to. I believed that it was unlikely that there would be problems with the surround speakers, since they are passive, so no electronics to fail, etc. What we did do was to really pay attention to how they are mounted, ensuring there was no way for the speaker to vibrate, or for the speaker wires to contact the cabinetry or any other structure and vibrate.
> 
> Well, I ended up with a buzz in one of my surround speakers! So, I had to take the fabric down, which will require expert assistance to put it up again. It turned out that there was a loose screw on the back of the speaker, and it allowed the PCB for the speaker crossover to buzz when the speaker was energized with a particular frequency range.


What fabric system did you end up using? I have tried/plan to install the fabricmate track system, its really easy to get fabric in and out of it if you do need to replace something behind it. You just pull the fabric back out, then use a pizza like tool or a thin tool like a putty knife to push it back in, doesn't require any thing special to put it back in.


----------



## kmhvball

KanosWRX said:


> What fabric system did you end up using? I have tried/plan to install the fabricmate track system, its really easy to get fabric in and out of it if you do need to replace something behind it. You just pull the fabric back out, then use a pizza like tool or a thin tool like a putty knife to push it back in, doesn't require any thing special to put it back in.


I was thinking I would use Fabricmate, but saw their price is up 50% per piece, so I should have bought a few months back. Now, I am thinking 3/4" plywood strips, with 1/4 round on the edges, but velcro them to the wall for easy removal.


----------



## JustMike

KanosWRX said:


> What fabric system did you end up using?


I don't know what it's called, I'm afraid. I had it installed professionally. The tracks are in two pieces that snap together and hinge open on one side. You affix the fabric to the other side where there's a sticky area, then snap them closed, which puts the tension on the fabric and clamps it in place. I've attached a photo of a sample piece.


----------



## KanosWRX

JustMike said:


> I don't know what it's called, I'm afraid. I had it installed professionally. The tracks are in two pieces that snap together and hinge open on one side. You affix the fabric to the other side where there's a sticky area, then snap them closed, which puts the tension on the fabric and clamps it in place. I've attached a photo of a sample piece.


Yeah, that one does look more complicated. well hopefully you won't have to take it off to much anymore


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## JustMike

Let's hope not! It's not too hard to take off with the proper tool. But I'm not willing to try putting it up again myself, especially on that panel with the cutout for the light fixture. The pros will do it next time they're in the area for another client.


----------



## mthiggins

I have several. A few that come to mind...I'm sure I'll post more later. 

1) Build a basement in my next house. A basement was out of budget for this house but I definitely want one in my next house. The upstairs theater is not that bad for my family, however I really envy the awesome basement theaters and recreation spaces. 

2) Make the riser at least 12" tall. Mine is 10" and if reclined in the back row the front row seats (if not reclined) set ever so slightly up at the bottom of my view in front of the screen. Most "non theater geeks" people would probably not notice, but its enough to drive me mad. 

3) Make the ceiling taller. My plan called for 8' and I had plenty of space to add another foot or two, but didn't to save money. It would have been worth it to add an extra foot and I never even discussed the cost with my builder. 

4) Make a bigger component closet. I personally, am not a fan of the visible equipment racks and like have my components hidden. I put in a 4'x5' closet which is more than enough room for my equipment but it would be very nice if I had more room to walk in and move things around easier when it comes to setup, etc. Not to mention, I like to store all of my media in there as well.


----------



## mercracing

mthiggins said:


> I have several. A few that come to mind...I'm sure I'll post more later.
> 
> 1) Build a basement in my next house. A basement was out of budget for this house but I definitely want one in my next house. The upstairs theater is not that bad for my family, however I really envy the awesome basement theaters and recreation spaces.
> 
> 2) Make the riser at least 12" tall. Mine is 10" and if reclined in the back row the front row seats (if not reclined) set ever so slightly up at the bottom of my view in front of the screen. Most "non theater geeks" people would probably not notice, but its enough to drive me mad.
> 
> 3) Make the ceiling taller. My plan called for 8' and I had plenty of space to add another foot or two, but didn't to save money. It would have been worth it to add an extra foot and I never even discussed the cost with my builder.
> 
> 4) Make a bigger component closet. I personally, am not a fan of the visible equipment racks and like have my components hidden. I put in a 4'x5' closet which is more than enough room for my equipment but it would be very nice if I had more room to walk in and move things around easier when it comes to setup, etc. Not to mention, I like to store all of my media in there as well.



I had the same problem with your #2 . I build a small "riser" just for my second row. 2x4 with leftover 3/4" ply. Covered it with black carpet, kinda like the stuff to cover boat trailer bunks. It gave me the boost I needed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LydMekk

Concrete cinema room. Placed the tubes in the walls and the wall boxes for the side and back speaker cables too low...Yeah...another day of work With Builders to extend them to 180cm over the floor. Lesson learned.


Another pointer for you all out there: rethink and use some more time mulling over details and solutions BEFORE you start building. Cheaper that way...


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## avtexan

I wish I would have put my step lights in the wall facing the seats versus in the riser facing the screen. They light up the sides of the screen and leave a shadow in the center.


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## LastButNotLeast

Would something like this help?


----------



## just jim

avtexan said:


> I wish I would have put my step lights in the wall facing the seats versus in the riser facing the screen. They light up the sides of the screen and leave a shadow in the center.


Use some kind of baffle like shown above and dim them. During a movie the room is fairly dark, so your irises are dilated and don't need a lot of light to see the stairs.


----------



## nonstopdoc1

strange_brew said:


> I would have made more room between my front wall and screen wall - right now the subs are jammed in there pretty tight and I don't have as much freedom of movement as I'd like. An extra 3" would have made a huge difference.


How much space would you recommend between front wall and screen wall?


----------



## R Harkness

I drove myself almost mad with thinking through every tiny little detail in my theater, for something like 2 years in the design process. And then getting all those details right during the build process almost ruined me.

But the end result, 5 years later, is that there is almost nothing I would have done differently. Everything worked beyond my wildest dreams.

There is ONE thing for sure I can think of that I'd do differently if doing it again. I'd employ black velvet curtains
right from the beginning, for covering walls when watching movies (projection-based set up).

It's amazing how many ideas I went through in terms of how to have walls that were bright during the day/not watching movies (because this was not dedicated theater room), but which could be covered easily for movie watching. For various reasons I'd contemplated pull down black blinds over the walls, automated blinds, etc.
My "final" design was using dark brown velvet curtains stacked to the sides of the screen wall which could be pulled some way out along the side walls to cut reflections for movies. That certainly worked really well. But ultimately I wanted the room to utterly disappear when watching movies, and only truly deep black velvet would do that.  The existing brown curtains were actually helpful here, as I didn't like the look at all of black velvet curtains during the day time. So I installed black velvet curtains behind the more beautiful, decor-matching brown velvet curtains. So now the black velvet curtains can be quickly pulled out along the entire walls to make a black box for movie watching, and just as quickly disappear from view, like they don't exist,
behind the existing curtains during daytime.

Any time I have to do another HT, I will definitely be deploying something similar to this method. (My ultimate version would have the curtains automated, so they could come out and cover the walls as part of a macro on my universal remote. Automated curtain motors aren't actually very expensive either. My problem is one curtain side has to clear a fire-place, hence not a straight path, making automated curtains difficult).


----------



## KanosWRX

nonstopdoc1 said:


> How much space would you recommend between front wall and screen wall?


This was one thing I read, but wish I followed through with more.. its a trade off that usually means slightly smaller screen size, but more room behind the false wall. You never see behind the false wall so you think, oh ill never need anymore space... until you find out that new sub won't fit back there  I spec'd out about 2 feet for mine, but failed to realize that with the sound absorption and false wall framing, it ate up a good 8-9 inches all together, so I only had about 15" of space on the floor.. not a lot for a sub  So now I am trying to take out some insulation behind where the sub is going and cut away some of the false wall framing up front to fit a sub in there that is 17" deep with a big heatsink on the back. So I would say, make sure you have at least 3 feet total from drywall to the front of the false wall (If its a tight fit, might be able to get away with 2.5 feet, but no less then that!), that gives you some wiggle room to fit most subs. That's the biggest thing I would have done differently.


----------



## ingloriousbasterd

*Recommendations for consultant? Cost expectations?*

>>>Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates from the beginning... I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....No support, no contact-it was like pulling teeth just to get questions answered.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Knowing your location would be a good start.

Welcome to AVS. Have fun.


----------



## ingloriousbasterd

ingloriousbasterd said:


> >>>Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates from the beginning... I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....No support, no contact-it was like pulling teeth just to get questions answered.


----------



## nickbuol

I read at a number of places that double drywall and Greenglue (or OSB then Greenglue and then drywall) was much better, and a better value, than Quietrock or similar products, but that is just my 2cents probably for a different thread.


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## LastButNotLeast

You might find some interesting info in Earl Geddes' book (free pdf):
http://gedlee.azurewebsites.net/downloads/HT/Home_theater.pdf


----------



## nickbuol

LastButNotLeast said:


> You might find some interesting info in Earl Geddes' book (free pdf):
> http://gedlee.azurewebsites.net/downloads/HT/Home_theater.pdf


Chapter 11 of that is good for construction... With a smallish room, there would be great benefit from decoupling the interior and exterior walls, but not sure if he can lose the interior space.

Good (bit dated, but still valid) long reference doc for someone getting started. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Nick in Manitou

I was sure that I had all the cables I would ever need to the TV location, so I didn't run conduit or other tubing...I wouldn't need to add anything! 

We rented the house out while out of town for a year and a half due to a job change and when we came back...the HDMI cable end was destroyed.

Lesson learned...conduit everywhere next time...no question.


----------



## Nick in Manitou

I was sure that I had all the cables I would ever need to the TV location, so I didn't run conduit or other tubing...I wouldn't need to add anything! 

We rented the house out while out of town for a year and a half due to a job change and when we came back...the HDMI cable end was destroyed.

Lesson learned...conduit everywhere next time...no question.


----------



## blipszyc

Nick in Manitou said:


> Lesson learned...conduit everywhere next time...no question.


Lesson #2 - get a bigger Security Deposit from your renter.


----------



## R Harkness

I'm curious:
*
Would anyone say that "next time" you simply would not build a home theater at all?

*Perhaps the experience was too draining and not worth it. Or it didn't turn out as you hoped, or you don't use it so much, or any other reason to just not want to do it again (or even regret doing it)?


----------



## Bronston

I'm about to enter the process again and I'm wondering the same thing. How far do I really need to go for an enjoyable result. I know that's open to personal preference but I'm thinking maybe I don't need as many bells and whistles, especially with respect to decor. I do very much like having a big picture and big sound experience but I think I'm realizing I'm not so committed to the hobby as to apply the excess resources of money and time anymore that it may take to implement a reference level theater experience. I think I'm more than OK with a good to very good experience.

Life changes, people relocate etc... I wonder if investing so much into something that may get left behind and may not offer a good financial return. Sometimes the space doesn't get all the intended usage. One agonizes over how to build and accommodate those 6,8,10, 12 seats and 90% of the time only 3 or 4 seats are used.


----------



## SteveFred

I would say, do what you feel is comfortable for you. If you want to go all out, then awesome. I am in the process of designing my 2nd theater and I will go a bit higher end this time, but still not to the extremes. I do agree we set up the theaters to fit 6-8-10-12 but 95% of the time it's just 1-4 watching. I say have fun and in the end, I am sure it will be perfect for you.


----------



## willmo

Some related threads on the topic: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...r-do-you-still-visit-commercial-theaters.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ruction/1533787-thrill-home-theater-gone.html
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...ate-theater-how-s-dedicated-theater-kids.html


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## drunkpenguin

I know what I would do differently next time.. use some quality paint instead of that cheap stuff!

I'm now repainting a few years later and a theater is a lot of work to repaint! Speakers moved out, surrounds pulled off walls, bass traps moved out, seats to wrap in plastic, carpet to cover with paper, built in acoustic panels covered in paper, tape everywhere!!!! 

Learn from me kids, Behr paint or don't paint at all!


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## LastButNotLeast

Can't you just keep the lights off?


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## drunkpenguin

You sound like my wife! It's gotta be presentable for that 22 seconds it takes to walk in, sit down, and then turn the lights off! duh!


----------



## just jim

drunkpenguin said:


> I know what I would do differently next time.. use some quality paint instead of that cheap stuff!
> 
> Learn from me kids, Behr paint or don't paint at all!



Funny, my painter who has 40 years in the business, thinks Behr is crap. Forget Homecheapo, go to a real paint store and buy one of Benjamin Moore's top lines such as Aura and see what real paint quality is. Or Sansin, or Para, or Sherwin-Williams. All of these companies have various lines made to fit various price points. Their top lines are good, but unfortunately expensive. The little known Ontario company, Sansin, has been low VOC for over a decade before it was trendy, so their R & D is ahead of the competition. I've been using their exterior stains with much better luck than the other big names.

When it comes down to it, as expensive as good paint is, it is still a small amount when you consider your time to put it on.


----------



## drunkpenguin

Everybody's got their opinions I guess. I can't remember which paint we used the first time that I hated so much, whatever the cheapest home depot sold 10 years ago. We actually painted our master bedroom with Sherwin Willams and I would never buy that stuff again. I remember it being about 50 bucks per gallon and it took 2 coats to put maroon on a white wall! I like Behr, it's a true one coat paint and it's thick enough that it doesn't drip. The Sherwin Williams had to really be watched as it was just a super thin paint


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## stef2

just jim said:


> Funny, my painter who has 40 years in the business, thinks Behr is crap.


That was my impression too...I wonder if the OP was kidding?


----------



## drunkpenguin

Oh come on now. Coming from someone that has to pay someone else to paint his house it's a bit hard to take him seriously isn't it?


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## Mfusick

Trying paint in a single coat ? Sometimes it takes more than one coat to get a superior result. I know it's more cost in paint and more work but that's why some paint jobs look better than others. If you are a person that cuts corners you should expect it to look that way. Painting is one of those things. You can't rush. You can't cheat. It is what it is. I hate painting. But when I do, I do it right.


----------



## drunkpenguin

Im repainting my theater now and yes it is taking one coat. Are u implying that I might not have the ability to judge wether or not one coat is covering properly? Its paint, not a mission to mars. The snobiness in this forum can be overwhelming at times.


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## thesamarai

use a 1 inch nap. Make sure u load it up with alot of paint and dont compress too much when painting. Sometimes its not the paint but the person doing the paint. behr is great paint.


----------



## just jim

drunkpenguin said:


> Oh come on now. Coming from someone that has to pay someone else to paint his house it's a bit hard to take him seriously isn't it?


Actually, I'm a general contractor with over 30 years of experience in structure and advanced mechanical systems. No, I don't paint. I have someone you takes care of that. Just trying to share what my professional has experienced. 

Personally, I try to buy as little as I can from Homecheapo. Much of the materials I use is beyond their niche market and for the lumber and plywood, I get better prices and much better quality materials from my other suppliers. HD is merely "convenient". I also try to buy Canadian, US or Western European. The local Home HARDWARE carries nails made in British Columbia that can be driven into LVLs, unlike the Chinese crap. Watch the labels!


----------



## Mfusick

drunkpenguin said:


> Im repainting my theater now and yes it is taking one coat. Are u implying that I might not have the ability to judge wether or not one coat is covering properly? Its paint, not a mission to mars. The snobiness in this forum can be overwhelming at times.


I wasn't talking directly to you. I honestly have no clue about your individual project. Didn't even look or consider it in my comments. My comments were general advice on painting.

I've found that using good paint, not trying to cut corners, using good rollers and brushes, and if needed using multiple coats has worked for me many times. Every time I try to do a job on less paint by doing fewer coats, or rushing through it to get it done- I end up regretting doing that because the results could have been better. It's just advice. This thread is about what you'd do differently next time. In the context of the thread I though my comments fit. I didn't mean any offense. If so, sincerely sorry. Paint is an aesthetic thing, you can always see and appreciate a great job. I absolutely hate painting- I lack patience for it. What I hate most is there is never an easy way to cheat or rush it. A pro gets efficient with it, but that's the best you can hope for.


----------



## just jim

Mfusick said:


> I wasn't talking directly to you. I honestly have no clue about your individual project. Didn't even look or consider it in my comments. My comments were general advice on painting.
> 
> I've found that using good paint, not trying to cut corners, using good rollers and brushes, and if needed using multiple coats has worked for me many times. Every time I try to do a job on less paint by doing fewer coats, or rushing through it to get it done- I end up regretting doing that because the results could have been better. It's just advice. This thread is about what you'd do differently next time. In the context of the thread I though my comments fit. I didn't mean any offense. If so, sincerely sorry. Paint is an aesthetic thing, you can always see and appreciate a great job. I absolutely hate painting- I lack patience for it. What I hate most is there is never an easy way to cheat or rush it. A pro gets efficient with it, but that's the best you can hope for.


EXACTLY!

This is a forum for advice and for sharing experience. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert painter, but I can pass on what I know from my professional painter with the hope that it helps someone make a better decision. My painter painted my 27' x 27' kitchen ceiling, back rolling it and keeping a wet edge. There is not a single roller mark, anywhere! I can't do that. I can only make the 27' x 27' ceiling. 

drunkpenguin, loosen up and accept the advice or not. I know I get good ideas and will avoid some oversight because of entries from this thread and others. Many from first time builders with a fresh perspective. Don't take it as a personal attack.

Behr is an "OK" paint at a good price. But it certainly does not compare to a top of the line paint which is up to about $70 for 4L (1 US gal) in Canada. Sorry.

thesamarai...I hope using a 1" nap was a joke...


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## Mfusick

just jim said:


> thesamarai...I hope using a 1" nap was a joke...


I thought the same thing. I'm a 1/4" or 3/8" nap guy. The fatter the nap the less smooth the result.

I like using the premium rollers for smooth and semi smooth surfaces.

The goal is not to use a big fat paint roller that holds a ton of paint, and therefore skip having to dip and redip often. Sure it might be faster, but it's not at all better. 

This goes back to the comments I made above. I know how to paint. I learned the hard way, done it many times. That hard way is the way it comes out good. The easy way is the way it looks like poop. IT IS WHAT IT IS. 

patience is a virtue. You are rewarded for taking your time. Always using wet edge, and going over stuff more than once. Dipping paint roller often, and rolling it out before applying it will give you the perfect amount of paint- not too much and not too little. Doing it right is at odds with doing it fast or doing it easy. Yes, a premium paint roller is twice the price. Yes, it takes more time and effort. Yes you need to be more careful with a proper paint roller than a cheap fat one that leaves a less smooth surface and holds more paint. 

At the end of the day most people will choose to do what they want to do. It's not my house, theater, and I don't have to look at it. My advice was just to help those that care how it will look maximize their efforts. 

IMO the cost of an expensive paint and expensive roller and expensive brush are worth it because it's a small cost compared to the labor of the job. The hard part is the labor. Using the right products only maximizes your efforts in terms of results- and to me that's value. I often DIY stuff not to save money, but because I am always disappointed when someone else does a job inferior to one I would do myself. If someone could guarantee me a job much better than I could do myself, I would gladly pay. It's hard to find good workers. As a normal guy, it's easier to DIY than open the yellow pages or start calling people I don't know and take a chance. This is where referrals are important- go look at someone else house they painted and see if you like it first. Save yourself some troubles. A lot of professionals when they find a good person will keep them, because they realize the value there. It's not about cost, it's about value. 

If I am going to take the time to paint a room, a room in my own home that is important to me how it looks, I don't mind another $10 spent on brush and roller, or another $10 spent on a gallon of paint. It's pennies on the dollar compared to the time, effort, and mess. The hard part is doing it, and cleaning up. For that part of the trouble I expect and awesome result. I might be weird though?? IDK. I appreciate stuff like that.


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## masopa

I have to say, this thread is a hugely useful resource for those of us looking to build our own first HT. Thank you all and well done on sharing!


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## Cain

I probably would not do 7.1 sound. 
I'd make the screen a little larger, and lower. 
I might use direct speakers for the surrounds rather than indirect. 

I'll think of other things I'm sure. 

The BEST thing I did was to hire Dennis Erskine to design it, is he still alive? ;-)


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## nickbuol

Cain said:


> I probably would not do 7.1 sound.
> I'd make the screen a little larger, and lower.
> I might use direct speakers for the surrounds rather than indirect.
> 
> I'll think of other things I'm sure.
> 
> The BEST thing I did was to hire Dennis Erskine to design it, is he still alive? ;-)


Why wouldn't you do 7.1? Just curious as I love it. Maybe it is your room size? I have a 14.5' x 24' with 2 rows of seats, so having the extra 2 rear channels comes in real handy and there are more and more movies with 7.1 soundtracks.

I too recently switched to direct radiating speakers for surrounds. I am gearing up for Atmos/DTS:X and the direct (monopole?) speakers are best for that use.


----------



## Cain

Yes Nick, it is the size of my theater which is smallish and I rarely seem to watch sources that use those back channels. 

How do you like the direct radiating speakers for surrounds? Are you gonna put speakers on the ceiling for Atmos? I'm thinking about that too.


----------



## nickbuol

Cain said:


> Yes Nick, it is the size of my theater which is smallish and I rarely seem to watch sources that use those back channels.
> 
> How do you like the direct radiating speakers for surrounds? Are you gonna put speakers on the ceiling for Atmos? I'm thinking about that too.


Sorry everyone for the side-track convo.

I really like the direct radiating actually. I didn't think that I would. Yes, I will put speakers on my ceiling for Atmos. In-ceiling are cleaner looking, but then I have a lot more drywall and soundproofing work to fix the fact that I not only put holes in my ceiling (bedroom directly above the theater), but I also have speakers just below the subfloor of that same bedroom...


----------



## danielrg

Mfusick said:


> I thought the same thing. I'm a 1/4" or 3/8" nap guy. The fatter the nap the less smooth the result.
> 
> IMO the cost of an expensive paint and expensive roller and expensive brush are worth it because it's a small cost compared to the labor of the job. The hard part is the labor. Using the right products only maximizes your efforts in terms of results- and to me that's value. I often DIY stuff not to save money, but because I am always disappointed when someone else does a job inferior to one I would do myself. If someone could guarantee me a job much better than I could do myself, I would gladly pay. It's hard to find good workers. As a normal guy, it's easier to DIY than open the yellow pages or start calling people I don't know and take a chance. This is where referrals are important- go look at someone else house they painted and see if you like it first. Save yourself some troubles. A lot of professionals when they find a good person will keep them, because they realize the value there. It's not about cost, it's about value.


I purchased Benjamin Moore Aura matte paint for my theater. I just love the finish, it is almost flat, and walls clean up pretty well. Can still scuff, but nothing like true flat paint. Great compromise between completely flat and maintainable paint. Especially for the doors and trim. Painting was inexpensive compared to other parts of the project. But like you said - the labor is where it's at. I have purchased primo and not primo paint and supplies, and I'll never go back. In my opinion, anyone can afford top of the line paint compared to many other top of the line things.


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## inspector

I have a black glass table in front of the screen that holds my equipment. I should have made the builders build a rack into the side wall so I couldn't see them. Maybe a 120" 16x9 screen that isn't as glossy as the one from JKP Affinity .09 gain screen.


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## BSHuff

As a newbie.... Never coming to AVS forum in the first place and being happy with my reasonably sized 55inch TV with a soundbar in my living room?


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## wile3coyote

I would have added an additional conduit to the front of the room. I planned the room for a screen/projector, but until I buy it, it would be nice to be able to temporarily run HDMI from my rack to a cheaper LED screen.


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## drunkpenguin

BSHuff said:


> As a newbie.... Never coming to AVS forum in the first place and being happy with my reasonably sized 55inch TV with a soundbar in my living room?


You probably have saved a fortune! Run now! Get out while you can before it's too late!


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## just jim

BSHuff said:


> As a newbie.... Never coming to AVS forum in the first place and being happy with my reasonably sized 55inch TV with a soundbar in my living room?


Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## randyk47

I'd get divorced before I did all the research, planning, and construction!  Put hours and hours into planning the "perfect" house to be built with all the latest state-of-the-art-you-name-it. Got the house built, all 6,300 square feet of it, with 1,850 square feet of finished walkout basement with 10' ceilings. Basement was to be all mine, even named it Randyland. Pool table, bar with card room, office, sauna, and home theater. She who shall not be named, at least not with the name I use for her that would get me censored or banned here, decided to run off with an old flame after 11 months in house. Never again!


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## LastButNotLeast

I hope you at least got to keep the house.


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## randyk47

LastButNotLeast said:


> I hope you at least got to keep the house.


Nope. Poured my heart into that house and she got it. Truth was she was a VP of big IT company and could afford the house on her own and I couldn't. Sounds like I'm bitter but truth is my life has been much, much better since then. Toys for boys isn't everything.


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## NODES

I should of went right for the DIY subforms on here


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## drunkpenguin

randyk47 said:


> Nope. Poured my heart into that house and she got it. Truth was she was a VP of big IT company and could afford the house on her own and I couldn't. Sounds like I'm bitter but truth is my life has been much, much better since then. Toys for boys isn't everything.


Well my brother said it best after his divorce. "I lost half of my income, but yet I have more money than I ever did before."


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## blipszyc

randyk47 said:


> Nope. Poured my heart into that house and she got it. Truth was she was a VP of big IT company and could afford the house on her own and I couldn't. Sounds like I'm bitter but truth is my life has been much, much better since then. Toys for boys isn't everything.





drunkpenguin said:


> Well my brother said it best after his divorce. "I lost half of my income, but yet I have more money than I ever did before."


I know the question is supposed to be for Home Theater, but I have to do it...
"What I'd do differently next time?" - PRENUP!


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## Serenity_now

It may have been covered, but I'd hire a better drywall seam filler to do the job and not go with the lowest quote as a default. I got 2 quotes of wildly differing prices. $1700 + Material or $600 + Material for my small basement and theater room with estimates of 3 visits of work.

I chose the $600 quote thinking I would have some money to put into other things. I saved some cash, but spent about 20 hours of my own time applying another coat of mud to all corners, sanding and fixing missed areas. My laundry closet wasn't finished at all.....

I'd pay the money next time to have it done right and trust references. I'll avoid hiring 'trades' from classified ads. They are usually just a handy dude with more courage than talent.


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## drunkpenguin

I always went with the lowest bidder and it worked out very good for me. Guess i got lucky.


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## erkq

Serenity_now said:


> ...
> I'll avoid hiring 'trades' from classified ads. They are usually just a handy dude with more courage than talent.


Even for $600 he should have been licensed.


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## flvinny521

randyk47 said:


> Nope. Poured my heart into that house and she got it. Truth was she was a VP of big IT company and could afford the house on her own and I couldn't. Sounds like I'm bitter but truth is my life has been much, much better since then. Toys for boys isn't everything.


That's rough. Especially since I've heard stories where the shoe was on the other foot, and the husband breadwinner had to keep paying for the home while the wife got to live in it.


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## randyk47

Have to say my intent sharing my story wasn't about sharing a sob story but more to share the emotional and mental aspects of going through the research and planning process only to have basically a "failure to launch". Rightfully so the vast majority of this thread is about things folks would have done differently from a design, build, or technical aspect and it's a good source of lessons learned. I couldn't help but wonder how many out there have never realized their dream or plans for whatever reason or reasons and not necessarily technical reasons.


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## HalfSpec

I had 0 complaints from my last setup, but it was more of a multipurpose living room with in wall/ceiling 7.1 surround centered around a 65" panny and everything in a AV closet. Very functional. Very every day. I never had second thoughts about anything... Then I moved and came back here.... Now I'm at the tipping point and have a room I'm going to make a dedicated theater. Oh lord here we go.

That said, now I'm trying to wade through the information so I don't make easily avoided mistakes with my first dedicated theater. Threads like this have been a life saver! Thank you 

I'll be posting an advice thread shortly.

Lane


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## michaelddd

Spec'd out a new custom home with a bonus/game room upstairs. Perfect for a HT. The model had a full bath connected to that room...ostensibly, so you could make that room a 2nd Master BR if you wanted to.

I SHOULD'VE made that full bath a 1/2 bath and made a separate equipment room with it's own door...the space was there. But I was worried about resale value, and opted to keep the full bath...and now my equipment rack will be out in the room, fans and lights a blazing. Go with your gut!


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## clausdk

Question for those of you who have build already or considering:

Giving the choice of a smaller theater space, in exchange for a lounge, bar and a nice theater entrance, what would you do?

I basically have around 550-600sqf of space for either a larger theater or smaller one with an extra room in front of it, as described above.

* Design a theater around 375sqf with a 225sqf lounge area (or other distribution of space) or,

* Design a theater using the whole 550-600sq and no lounge infront of it

Perhaps some of you with lounges + theater can shed light on usage and usability of such a room?


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## KanosWRX

clausdk said:


> Question for those of you who have build already or considering:
> 
> Giving the choice of a smaller theater space, in exchange for a lounge, bar and a nice theater entrance, what would you do?
> 
> I basically have around 550-600sqf of space for either a larger theater or smaller one with an extra room in front of it, as described above.
> 
> * Design a theater around 375sqf with a 225sqf lounge area (or other distribution of space) or,
> 
> * Design a theater using the whole 550-600sq and no lounge infront of it
> 
> Perhaps some of you with lounges + theater can shed light on usage and usability of such a room?


My HT is about 375-400 sq/ft, I do wish it were about 100sq/ft bigger so the rear row could be further off the rear wall. It's not a huge deal as I don't sit there, but would have been nice to have that extra bit of wiggle room. Having said that, I don't know what your entertainment needs are or how much you might utilize a lounge room. Behind my home theater is the kids play room . But if you don't have kids anymore at home then I guess I could see how that would just bbe come a sitting type room for entertaining purposes. Personally I'd go for the larger theater, you can "lounge" in the HT . But seriously just depends on what you plan on doing more of, sitting and talking with guests or watching movies.


----------



## erkq

clausdk said:


> Question for those of you who have build already or considering:
> 
> Giving the choice of a smaller theater space, in exchange for a lounge, bar and a nice theater entrance, what would you do?
> 
> I basically have around 550-600sqf of space for either a larger theater or smaller one with an extra room in front of it, as described above.
> 
> * Design a theater around 375sqf with a 225sqf lounge area (or other distribution of space) or,
> 
> * Design a theater using the whole 550-600sq and no lounge infront of it
> 
> Perhaps some of you with lounges + theater can shed light on usage and usability of such a room?


Mine is 16x21. For us, it's perfect... just big enough to feel spacious with plenty of room for side isles. We sit 4 across with 2 rows. First row is 10' back from a 10' wide screen (perfect for 2.35) and the second row is 16' back, perfect for 16:9. But we also have a vaulted ceiling that goes from 9' to 17', so maybe that makes it feel more spacious than if it just had an 8 or 9 foot ceiling. I also have a projection room, so there's no equipment in the theater either.


----------



## JustMike

clausdk said:


> Question for those of you who have build already or considering:
> 
> Giving the choice of a smaller theater space, in exchange for a lounge, bar and a nice theater entrance, what would you do?
> 
> I basically have around 550-600sqf of space for either a larger theater or smaller one with an extra room in front of it, as described above.
> 
> * Design a theater around 375sqf with a 225sqf lounge area (or other distribution of space) or,
> 
> * Design a theater using the whole 550-600sq and no lounge infront of it
> 
> Perhaps some of you with lounges + theater can shed light on usage and usability of such a room?


My theater is 18' wide x 23' deep, so it's smaller than your total space. If I could do it over again, and if I had more room available (and a suitable layout), I think I would put in a projection booth at the back of the room, so that there would be a totally acoustically isolated, climate-controlled room for the projector and equipment. As it is, my choices of projector are limited by aesthetics and noise.

As for the theater itself, I like my size a lot. I wouldn't want it to be smaller, and making it larger wouldn't make a lot of sense from the standpoint of screen size and viewing angles (until you get big enough that you can add an additional row, but that's a big jump in size that also requires changes in screen size. My projector is not bright enough to light up a substantially larger screen with the screen material I'm using (which I really like) so then you end up, again, wanting a sound-isolated booth...

I don't think you're wrong in wanting a sort of lounge area. I would like a larger area around the popcorn machine, in a separate room from the theater. As it is, my machine is in a smallish space, and I have to close the door to the theater when I pop to keep the smell and the small amount of smoke from getting into the theater. So, people either have to hang out in there while I pop, or hang out with me in the small space. Having a larger lounge where we could all hang out before the movie would be pleasant. I solve this problem for myself today by just going downstairs an hour before people are coming for a movie and popping the popcorn. The warming function in the machine keeps it in fine shape.


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## erkq

Our "hang-out" room is the great-room/kitchen. Popcorn/wine/beer... all right there plus seating/bar. Theater is just a few steps down the hall. So, depending on your house's configuration...


----------



## ronny31

I only made a 2-channel 2-way active crossover setup. But next time I will go overboard with glassfiber reinforcement. I thought I wouldn't need it with the high-density particleboard I used (22mm thick designed for weight-carrying floor duty between 600mm distance beams). But there's still some give in it, certain frequencies more than others but there's a definite tingle in the fingertips if held against the various enclosure surfaces on 100db+. That's energy that is lost not making the correct sound. Internal glassfiber reinforcement to insane levels next time (so as to not lose lots of volume to reinforcement).


----------



## psychdoc

Now that my theater is approaching the very end as my very first full theater I've created, I would change the following things:

-Forget the dual display. Once you see an amazing projector image you want to see everything on that screen (my 80" flatscreen now sits in the living room).
-More outlets. I put a bunch in but I'd add even more: powered subs, powered Fortress seats, powered Lutron shades. With more outlets comes future flexibility.
-Next theater built from scratch will have a very large AT screen. I love the looks of my Aerial Acoustics speakers but having kids near very expensive speakers sometimes is too anxiety provoking.
-Even bigger. My theater is already large in comparison to many theaters (roughtly 26x19x9) but I'd want it slightly wider and slightly longer and slightly higher for a perfect theater space
-Forget the plan regarding windows being put in but being built over with hat channel and sound proofing with the thought of the next house owner knowing he could change the walls and have windows again. The heck with the next owner!
-Build in a more thorough cooling plan for the equipment and room.

That's it. Overall I couldn't be happier with my theater in the way it turned out. The colors picked out, the wood choice, the equipment purchased, the FOSI star ceiling, the sound proofing. I still get goosebumps when I walk in and see what I've created.


----------



## erkq

psychdoc said:


> ...
> Next theater built from scratch will have a very large AT screen. I love the looks of my Aerial Acoustics speakers but having kids near very expensive speakers sometimes is too anxiety provoking.
> 
> ...


If you have a chance next time, go for a cathedral ceiling. Mine goes from 9' to 17' and it really gives it a spacious feeling. I have 20 down-firing halogens strung in a grid over the seating area at 9' and the ceiling disappears. It feels like there's nothing above you. This was purely by accident. It's just how my house was built.

Also, you're gonna love a lot more than just speaker protection with an AT screen!


----------



## psychdoc

erkq said:


> If you have a chance next time, go for a cathedral ceiling. Mine goes from 9' to 17' and it really gives it a spacious feeling. I have 20 down-firing halogens strung in a grid over the seating area at 9' and the ceiling disappears. It feels like there's nothing above you. This was purely by accident. It's just how my house was built.
> 
> Also, you're gonna love a lot more than just speaker protection with an AT screen!


I agree with you regarding the AT screen. As far as the ceiling... my FOSI star ceiling is simply beautiful and I could never imagine giving it up. It takes a ton of effort to make one and about 140-160 hours if you work your butt off but once the lights go down and you look up.... WOW


----------



## erkq

psychdoc said:


> I agree with you regarding the AT screen. As far as the ceiling... my FOSI star ceiling is simply beautiful and I could never imagine giving it up. It takes a ton of effort to make one and about 140-160 hours if you work your butt off but once the lights go down and you look up.... WOW


Holy cow! That sounds great! Yeah... those things are beautiful,


----------



## quiner87

Hopefully will be finishing up my home theater basement in a house we purchased about 6 months ago. 

Really like the way its turning out, but if I were to do one thing differently I think I would put some sort of ceiling up instead of paint the bare floor joists black. Its a short basement so I wanted to keep as much height as possible, and the ceiling does look good now, but it was a total pain in the butt getting that thing painted.


----------



## Brian Fineberg

1) make my room about a foot longer (had the room to do it too oh well)
2) make everything DIY from the get go. I am now 100% diy (speakers and subs) would have saved a TON of money if i did it initially


----------



## jgmac98

Just finished my build, room is 13x30x7.5


1) go wider... my theatre room couldn't have been any wider unless I moved a main beam, support posts and wanted to re-do the ceiling in the adjoining rooms. I'm very happy with what I do have, but if I could have gone 4-5 feet wider that would be great.


2) more power outlets. I was smart enough to put the sub power outlets on switches, but I was not smart enough to remember that when I was counting out my outlets. I have two walls with only 1 outlet on them that are conected to a switch, can't put a light or anything on it if I want it on when the subs are off 


3) wire for 9.2 instead of the 7.2 I have. I had no need/want for 9 speakers, but who knows what the future would hold


4) i thought I did a good job making a solid mount for the projector, but I get a lot of vibration in the ceiling from people walking above in the kitchen... no way to fix it now 


My theatre turned out way better than I imagined, but there is always things you think of after the fact lol.


----------



## erkq

jgmac98 said:


> ...
> 
> 3) wire for 9.2 instead of the 7.2 I have. I had no need/want for 9 speakers, but who knows what the future would hold
> 
> ...


Nice! Congratulations. I'd wire for 11.2 if I were starting out. Atmos...

My theater is 16' wide, just perfect... not crowded feeling, not too big for the house.


----------



## jgmac98

I'm lucky enough that the joists in my ceiling go accross my theater, and part of my theater is beside the storage room, so I can still put speakers in the ceiling and pull the wires over to my AV cabinet for Atmos in the future. I was thinking more that I should have wired front High's...


----------



## just jim

jgmac98 said:


> Just finished my build, room is 13x30x7.5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) more power outlets. I was smart enough to put the sub power outlets on switches, but I was not smart enough to remember that when I was counting out my outlets. I have two walls with only 1 outlet on them that are conected to a switch, can't put a light or anything on it if I want it on when the subs are off
> 
> 
> 4) i thought I did a good job making a solid mount for the projector, but I get a lot of vibration in the ceiling from people walking above in the kitchen... no way to fix it now
> 
> Re: 2
> Depending on how you wired the outlet you may be OK. If you have power running directly to the outlet box and then a switch wire back to the wall switch. Simply cut the bridge on the brass coloured side of the outlet (the power side). This separates the upper plug from the lower plug. This is done in rooms for switched floor/table lamps. Leave the top powered and the lower switched. Again, assuming that you only have one sub plugged in at each location. The switched wire would be connected as follows. White from the switch wire to the lower screw on the outlet. Black from the switch wire connected to the powered upper screw either by leaving a tail and using a wire nut or simply inserting it in the upper hole on the back (the continually powered plug) used for a friction fit. The power wire white goes to the silver side (leave bridge intact) and the black is connected to the upper brass screw AND the black going back to the switch. Grounds are of course connected to the ground screw in the box with one being attached to the ground screw on the outlet. (I didn't want to leave anything out!)
> 
> If you have power running to the switch and the switched power wire running to the outlet...yes, you are out of luck.
> 
> Re: 4
> There are many vibration isolation hangers for supporting machinery. They are rated for weight of the unit to be hung. The trade off is that the projector "may" hang down lower. Be creative.
> 
> Hope this helps.


----------



## jgmac98

thanks Just Jim. I ran the power to the switch and then from the switch to the outlet, so I'm SOL, unless I leave the switch on all the time and get one of those wireless switch adapter things that plug into one outlet, I may do that in the future, but for now I like the look of the switch for the subs... purely a cosmetic thing (and if this is my biggest problem then I am doing pretty good I think).


----------



## GreySkies

GreySkies said:


> 1. Never build anything, no matter how small, without a drawing. It's much easier to fix a problem when it's only on paper.
> 2. Deep pour basement.





GreySkies said:


> I didn't put in accent lights for my screen. As I look at some other theaters, screen accent lights are like the cherry on the sundae.


For the dedicated theater I built in our current house, I was able to incorporate the things I listed nine years ago here in this thread. 

Now I've got a new What-I'd-Do-Differently.

In the last house, my gear was in a cabinet in my bar, which was in the same room as the screen, which meant that we'd hear all sorts of cooling fans, in addition to some rather significant HVAC noise from the large exposed trunk that ran the length of the room. 

With the new dedicated room, all of the gear is outside the theater, so we don't hear anything of the sort now. The room is very, very quiet. Which means that the rather faint sound of the projector now bothers me. Fortunately, it doesn't bother my wife or son.

Because my back wall is an outside wall, I couldn't (inexpensively) do a projection booth. I initially planned on building a hush box, but because of a number of obstacles, I couldn't easily figure out a ducting plan, nor could I draw an aesthetically pleasing design for the room.

My new What-I'd-Do-Differently is that I'd build a hush box, or better yet, house the projector in its own projection room. I've put this on the requirement list for the next house.


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## just jim

jgmac98 said:


> thanks Just Jim. I ran the power to the switch and then from the switch to the outlet, so I'm SOL, unless I leave the switch on all the time and get one of those wireless switch adapter things that plug into one outlet, I may do that in the future, but for now I like the look of the switch for the subs... purely a cosmetic thing (and if this is my biggest problem then I am doing pretty good I think).


Unfortunate! But I like your idea of putting a switch on the subs which I will be using...if and when I start my build out!

If there is any way of fishing 14/3 wires to the boxes from the switch, the 3rd wire could be used to feed continuous power back to half of the plug. Fishing is often much easier than thought...


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## erkq

GreySkies said:


> ...
> or better yet, house the projector in its own projection room. I've put this on the requirement list for the next house.


Yes, a separate projection room is great! It's one of the best things I ever did in my HT!


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## Jag Gill

erkq said:


> If you have a chance next time, go for a cathedral ceiling. Mine goes from 9' to 17' and it really gives it a spacious feeling. I have 20 down-firing halogens strung in a grid over the seating area at 9' and the ceiling disappears. It feels like there's nothing above you. This was purely by accident. It's just how my house was built.
> 
> Also, you're gonna love a lot more than just speaker protection with an AT screen!





psychdoc said:


> I agree with you regarding the AT screen. As far as the ceiling... my FOSI star ceiling is simply beautiful and I could never imagine giving it up. It takes a ton of effort to make one and about 140-160 hours if you work your butt off but once the lights go down and you look up.... WOW



Would you guys mind sharing pictures of the finished results or links to the build threads? Thanks.


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## erkq

Jag Gill said:


> Would you guys mind sharing pictures of the finished results or links to the build threads? Thanks.


Unfortunately my theater is currently a storage room with seats, sound and sight-lines carved out. It sounds *great *that way, btw, but doesn't look very good. No build thread...


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## psychdoc

Jag Gill said:


> Would you guys mind sharing pictures of the finished results or links to the build threads? Thanks.


Hi JagGill. At the bottom of my posts there is a link "Hawaii Home Theater". If you click on that it should send you to my build thread. If that doesn't work please let me know. Otherwise here is a full link as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...me-theater-construction-finally-complete.html

Hopefully that works as well. If you have any questions about anything just post in the build thread and I'll be happy to respond. Have a great day.


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## just jim

jgmac98 said:


> thanks Just Jim. I ran the power to the switch and then from the switch to the outlet, so I'm SOL, unless I leave the switch on all the time and get one of those wireless switch adapter things that plug into one outlet, I may do that in the future, but for now I like the look of the switch for the subs... purely a cosmetic thing (and if this is my biggest problem then I am doing pretty good I think).


You've made me think about the sub I'm putting in my kitchen seating area. Liking your idea of switching the sub off when not in use, I'm going to fish a 14/3 to the sub area for a split plug. But the switched sub power will run through a relay that will be activated by the power trigger (or in my case a power outlet) on the back of my receiver so that it will come on automatically when the receiver is turned on. Call me lazy.


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## jgmac98

just jim said:


> You've made me think about the sub I'm putting in my kitchen seating area. Liking your idea of switching the sub off when not in use, I'm going to fish a 14/3 to the sub area for a split plug. But the switched sub power will run through a relay that will be activated by the power trigger (or in my case a power outlet) on the back of my receiver so that it will come on automatically when the receiver is turned on. Call me lazy.




my original plan was to have it run off the back of my reciever as well, but my wife brought up a good idea about being able to turn off the subwoofers when our kids are trying to sleep while we watch a movie.


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## just jim

jgmac98 said:


> my original plan was to have it run off the back of my reciever as well, but my wife brought up a good idea about being able to turn off the subwoofers when our kids are trying to sleep while we watch a movie.


Actually thought of that, as my daughter is above the kitchen and does complain about volume. She is 22 and should have moved out by now! But I digress. 

The switch and relay will be in series.


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## LastButNotLeast

just jim said:


> She is 22 and should have moved out by now!


I can recommend some demo discs that would encourage her to do just that.

Michael


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## genemc

uberanalyst said:


> If you use RSIC (sound clips) and metal hat channel to de-couple your double drywall from your 2 x 4 walls, make sure that your drywall contractor knows WHERE to place drywall screws into the metal hat channel.
> 
> 
> Otherwise (as happened to me), installers will naturally try to put drywall screws where the 2 x 4s are, which means placing long screws will hit the front face of the RSIC clips, mechanically coupling the drywall to the 2 x 4s (and defeating the reason to use RSIC clips in the first place!!)


That's exactly why after talking to the local sheetrock guys working on the rest of the house, I told them to STAY OUT of the theater area and had Dennis send Steve and his crew. Might have cost more but definitely worth it!


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## KanosWRX

I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them  Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.


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## blafarm

KanosWRX said:


> I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them  Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.


FYI: Having low voltage and mains power in the same conduit is an electrical code violation. Same hold true in most, if not all, jurisdictions for when you combine low voltage terminations and mains switches or receptacles in the same wall-, floor- or ceiling-mounted junction box.


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## KanosWRX

blafarm said:


> FYI: Having low voltage and mains power in the same conduit is an electrical code violation. Same hold true in most, if not all, jurisdictions for when you combine low voltage terminations and mains switches or receptacles in the same wall-, floor- or ceiling-mounted junction box.



Turns out the power cable wasn't needed after all.. So I just unplugged it on both ends for now, will pull it out one day when I need to run another cable as it isn't hurting or could cause any problems or anything now


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## blafarm

KanosWRX said:


> Turns out the power cable wasn't needed after all.. So I just unplugged it on both ends for now, will pull it out one day when I need to run another cable as it isn't hurting or could cause any problems or anything now


That's good news. I was not trying to be judgmental -- just wanted to help you to avoid a headache if you were inspected during construction, or during a future property sale.


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## KanosWRX

blafarm said:


> That's good news. I was not trying to be judgmental -- just wanted to help you to avoid a headache if you were inspected during construction, or during a future property sale.


Actually I spoke to soon, it turns out I still get a very small hum from my front heights when the sub is powered by a different outlet then the Processors . So I am still using the power through the conduit right now. It's such a minor hum though I'll keep looking for other ways to eliminate it. For now I know what's in my walls and don't plan on going through and cutting anywhere near there . But I'll know for future reference. I don't think it's going to hurt anything right now anyways.


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## blafarm

The issue has less to do with you "cutting anywhere near there" -- and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission. Also, the devices that low voltage wire interconnects are not protected against problems that might occur if they are fed high voltage at their inputs, as they are simply not designed for that (think: audio, video, alarm, control, network) that have the following risk (fire, electrical shock, fried equipment). 

Unfortunately, it is impossible to know if you even slightly damaged any of the insulation on the wires you pulled. You mentioned how hard it was and how twisted the bundle became. That observation represents a point of concern. 

And then there's the junction box and terminations, where damaged and/or exposed conductors can also happen. In some cases and jurisdictions, low and high voltage can coexist in the same junction box if they are physically partitioned

However, getting back to your principal problem, running AC with DC in parallel is a surefire way to introduce noise into any DC signal, whether it be analog of digital. To avoid noise and interference, AC and DC should never be run parallel and, if necessary, should only cross at 90 degrees.


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## blafarm

Code and safety issues aside (which frankly are not easy to ignore), you might run a simple test where you run a separate extension cord, and separate audio cables, to your required destination -- such that their paths are no where near each other. 

And if, for some reason, they absolutely must cross paths, do so at a 90 degree angle. That will tell you if you have a fundamental hum or ground loop problem -- or if the noise is a product of the wires in your conduit running parallel to each other. 

You might also try lifting the ground on one or more devices that have a 3-prong grounded power cables. Ground lifters look like this:

http://www.cctvforum.com/images/imported/2011/11/172017_1.jpg

Also, make sure ALL of your components are powered by the same electrical circuit in your breaker box. If they are not, use extension cords, if possible, to temporarily migrate ALL components (audio, video, network, etc.) to the same breaker and see if your noise goes away.

These are just the beginning steps in troubleshooting a problem that has plagued even the most carefully designed systems.


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## KanosWRX

So in my HT I have my wall sockets going to a 15amp circuit, everything else is on the two 20amps next to the media cabinet. I have found the only way to eliminate any hum is to have the two subs plugged into the same outlets as the pre-amp. I think the only true fix would be to have an electrician re-wire it so the wall sockets are on the same circuit as the 20 amp circuit that pre-amp is on. Then that should solve the issue as I found when I run the long extension cable from the 20amp outlet to the subs there is no hum. It's only when they are on the separate 15amp that I get the light hum. In my research I read in the breaker panel circuits are wired in and out of phase, usually every other one is a different phase 0-180. I am wondering if the 15 amp is one phase and the 20 amp another.

BTW the cheater plugs didn't help either.

As for the wires in the conduit, it actually wasn't hard to pull them through when I ran all 5 at once at the end. Granted once they were pulled through it would be very difficult to pull any one out now. I just have to pull them all back out if I want to run anything different.. not a big deal knowing what I know now. The speaker wires are all CL2 rated in-wall speaker wires, so I am not to worried about them. And I get no hum with them being next to the very heavy gauge AC wire I ran with them, everything is silent finally.

"Also, make sure ALL of your components are powered by the same electrical circuit in your breaker box. If they are not, use extension cords, if possible, to temporarily migrate ALL components (audio, video, network, etc.) to the same breaker and see if your noise goes away." 

So that is exactly what I needed to do/and did to resolve the issue. So that the subs could be powered by the same circuit as my other equipment. Just that the 50ft cable for now is in my conduit in the walls.. granted not ideal.. but until I can get an electrician to re-wire my HT wall sockets to the same 20amp circuit as my media closet (If indeed that is the final fix) this is the best option for me.

"and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission"

Maybe I didn't word something right.. I am not running any high voltage current over a low voltage line, nothing like that.

So I guess the lesson learned for this thread would be.. Make sure all your subs are on the same circuit that your AVR/Pre-Amp is on. If not make sure they are in the same phase state in the breaker box.


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## blafarm

KanosWRX said:


> "and more to do with the fact that low voltage wire is simply not made for high voltage transmission"
> 
> Maybe I didn't word something right.. I am not running any high voltage current over a low voltage line, nothing like that.


I understood that you were not running high voltage through low voltage wiring. However, if insulation is damaged during wire pulls, high voltage can make its way to low voltage wiring and then you have a really big problem (as stated in my previous emails).

Glad you migrated the gear to the same circuit. That is a very common problem and, in the big scheme of things, not that hard to fix (unless, of course, you have maxed-out the load on the circuit).

My advice: Be as careful as you can with these matters. Play by the rules. Use a licensed electrician. Your health and that of your family (electric shock), your property (fire), and your AV gear (fried) are all at stake. And your insurance company will reject any and all claims when they find a code violation like that -- and they will find it.


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## just jim

KanosWRX said:


> I wish I would have run larger conduit to the front of my HT. After trying to resolve a hum from my speakers caused by my subs being plugged into the rca outs of my processor I determined it went away when they were plugged into the same power strip as the processor. So I ran a long power cable through the conduit from the media cabinet to the sub in the front of the room. I spent about 3 hours trying to get that cable through my conduit, I had to pull out all my existing cables (3 speaker cables and 1 rca for the sub) then attach them all as one and push/pull it through the conduit. Unfortunately now, the cables are probably so twisted in there as they were run together that I can't pull one out without pulling all of them  Such a PItA! If I had run a 2" or even better, 3" conduit I would have been fine, 1-1/2" just doesn't work so well.


I wonder if you had changed the power wire (that runs to the sub outlet) in the electrical panel to the next breaker position, if that would have solved the buzzing problem? This would shift the power from one phase to the other. For those who don't know, in a 240V panel, every second post or single breaker is on one phase and the alternate is on the second phase. This is why when you joining two consecutive posts (double breaker) you get 240 volts. Anyways, running a sub off the phase opposite to the amp running the other speakers can give a buzz (it did for me). When you said the buzz went away when you plugged it into the same power bar as the processor you are essentially doing the same thing (ensuring that both are on the same phase), but as has been pointed out, you now have line voltage in the same conduit as low voltage. It would be "simple" to switch wires in the panel to see if this works and if it does, just abandon the extension cord in the conduit (unplug it ).

Edit
OK If I had read the last couple of entries before offering my 2 cents, I would have realized that there got "there". The only thing that I would clarify is that any outlets to be used for A/V equipment should be dedicated. That is to say, they should not also feed anything else, especially with osculating power such as lights, motors or compressors (fridge...in the bar...) which create electrical noise.


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## blipszyc

KanosWRX said:


> So in my HT I have my wall sockets going to a 15amp circuit, everything else is on the two 20amps next to the media cabinet. I have found the only way to eliminate any hum is to have the two subs plugged into the same outlets as the pre-amp. I think the only true fix would be to have an electrician re-wire it so the wall sockets are on the same circuit as the 20 amp circuit that pre-amp is on.


No need to hire an electrician. Just swap out the breaker in your panel so that it is on the same phase as the 20 amp circuits. So if the 20 amps are on breakers 12 and 14, just move the 15 amp circuit to 16 or 10. (or put them all on the odd ranges) The breaker should be relatively easy to swap with another one that doesn't matter as much. (lights for example)


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## KanosWRX

So tonight I took a look at my circuit breaker, all the circuits to the HT are on the right side, it goes from HT lights and wall sockets to another 15 amp, then to the left 20 amp socket in the media closet, then below that the right socket. So the HT lights and wall sockets should be in phase with the left media closet socket. So I tried plugging in all my equipment to that socket and plugging in the subs back into the wall sockets. The hum was still there  tried all on the right and the hum was there . So I guess it's not a phase issue. I tried a isolator on my RCA cable, all it seemed to do is reduce the volume and as I turned it back up to a normal level the hum was still there. The only fix is to actually plug the Subs into either of the 20amp circuits in the media closet. And to throw another wrench into this, in my moving of things around now I am back to getting a hum in all my speakers when the hdmi cable is plugged in... I am out of ideas, any other thoughts? The only thing I can think of now is figure out how to put the wall sockets on the 20 amp circuit, don't even know if that's possible without tearing up walls. And the only way to fix the hdmi hum is a ground loop lifter . This just sucks.


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## LastButNotLeast

It still sounds like a ground loop problem.
You may want to check your outlets with one of these:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...gclid=CMX1sJSIuM0CFZcdgQodA6MFNA&gclsrc=aw.ds
just to make sure the grounds are really grounded.
Michael


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## Dark Matter

LastButNotLeast said:


> I can recommend some demo discs that would encourage her to do just that.
> 
> Michael


As soon as my then 21 year old daughter began looking at apartments, I bought her a living room set and told her I'd pay for the Uhaul and drive it for her. Within 3 weeks, she was gone. Nearly 2 years later, still on her own. A little financial investment goes a long way.


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## KanosWRX

LastButNotLeast said:


> It still sounds like a ground loop problem.
> You may want to check your outlets with one of these:
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...gclid=CMX1sJSIuM0CFZcdgQodA6MFNA&gclsrc=aw.ds
> just to make sure the grounds are really grounded.
> Michael


Did that one already  everything was ok. But since this is getting off topic for this thread now, I started a new one over here, http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...-need-good-electrician-nova.html#post44876129 I didn't want to clutter up this thread anymore, hope thats ok.


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## Patriot666

I would of, and will, anchor my diy screen frame/stand to the wall. I hung my new 138" AT screen yesterday. It felt very sturdy. We were upstairs and heard a loud crash downstairs...it had tipped over. What a disaster! I already had another replacement screen on the way for a couple reasons, so it could've been much worse, but I'm still shaken by it.


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## KanosWRX

Patriot666 said:


> I would of, and will, anchor my diy screen frame/stand to the wall. I hung my new 138" AT screen yesterday. It felt very sturdy. We were upstairs and heard a loud crash downstairs...it had tipped over. What a disaster! I already had another replacement screen on the way for a couple reasons, so it could've been much worse, but I'm still shaken by it.


How was it originally held up before the crash?


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## Patriot666

KanosWRX said:


> How was it originally held up before the crash?


A freestanding frame made of 2X4's that I thought was very sturdy.  I now have it secured to the wall studs.


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## just jim

Dark Matter said:


> As soon as my then 21 year old daughter began looking at apartments, I bought her a living room set and told her I'd pay for the Uhaul and drive it for her. Within 3 weeks, she was gone. Nearly 2 years later, still on her own. A little financial investment goes a long way.


Actually, she has an entire apartment of furniture and small appliances and everything else needed. Unfortunately, it is all in storage... in my house. Apartments in Toronto are out of sight for someone starting out in the teaching profession here. And I am already covering apartments for 2 others in University. But I hear ya!


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## jparker36

What I'd do differently - not let the builder convince me to put the entrance at the rear of the room. Rear entry means I can't have two rows of recliners, even though I have a 21' room (designed around front row viewing distance). Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer if I'd held firm on side entry and changed the design of the rest of the house.


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## KanosWRX

jparker36 said:


> What I'd do differently - not let the builder convince me to put the entrance at the rear of the room. Rear entry means I can't have two rows of recliners, even though I have a 21' room (designed around front row viewing distance). Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer if I'd held firm on side entry and changed the design of the rest of the house.


I have a rear entrance, but its at the rear corner, still can fit a row of seats in the back.. how wide is your room? I guess if its less then 16' wide or so then I could see how that would be hard.


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## jparker36

KanosWRX said:


> I have a rear entrance, but its at the rear corner, still can fit a row of seats in the back.. how wide is your room? I guess if its less then 16' wide or so then I could see how that would be hard.


Right at 16' wide, and door is dead center, 36" wide and opens into the room. Technically I could put recliners in the back, but they'd only have 2.5-3' clearance to the walls (see pics in my build thread here). I've walked that and its a bit too tight, and if they were reclined, there could be only 1' of clearance, which is nowhere near enough. I'll stick with a sofa which is fine, but darn I wish I had done side entry.


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## KanosWRX

jparker36 said:


> Right at 16' wide, and door is dead center, 36" wide and opens into the room. Technically I could put recliners in the back, but they'd only have 2.5-3' clearance to the walls (see pics in my build thread here). I've walked that and its a bit too tight, and if they were reclined, there could be only 1' of clearance, which is nowhere near enough. I'll stick with a sofa which is fine, but darn I wish I had done side entry.


Ah, I see, the door in the middle, yes, that would be a problem. We all learn something after our first build though.. only problem is not many get the opportunity to do it all over again. But that's why we have this thread to help others.


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## erkq

KanosWRX said:


> I have a rear entrance, but its at the rear corner, still can fit a row of seats in the back.. how wide is your room? I guess if its less then 16' wide or so then I could see how that would be hard.


Yeah... this is what I do too. The door at the rear opens onto the right isle. *And *my theater is 16' wide too. It's comfortable, not cramped.


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## healthnut

I would have gone with theater seats with shorter backs. The higher backed chairs tend to block sound from the surrounds and possibly other detrimental effects. On the plus side. I did get a great deal on them and they're very comfortable!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gary Sedlack

What we are doing different this time. Our new home will have another dedicated room, it will be larger. Our current room is 23.8 long, 12.8 wide and 10 ft ceiling. The new room will be 24.2 long, 15.6 wide with a 9 ft ceiling. Also we are prewiring for Atmos. 

We are looking at running HDMI in wall instead of using a switcher like we are now that is run via cat 5 in wall. Therefore going directly from the source to the HD or 4K TV that we will be using.


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## nickbuol

healthnut said:


> I would have gone with theater seats with shorter backs. The higher backed chairs tend to block sound from the surrounds and possibly other detrimental effects. On the plus side. I did get a great deal on them and they're very comfortable!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ha. And I would have picked seats with taller backs and longer foot-rests for comfort. Speakers can be moved, but comfort is more limiting.


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## healthnut

One important consideration for basement theaters: dehumidification. I have a sensor switch and fan to to the outside that turns on automatically in the event it senses excessive humidity. Moisture is not only bad for the basement, but for all your valuable electronics and speakers as well. It can be shut off when watching a movie, but it runs fairly quietly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Patriot666

healthnut said:


> One important consideration for basement theaters: dehumidification. I have a sensor switch and fan to to the outside that turns on automatically in the event it senses excessive humidity. Moisture is not only bad for the basement, but for all your valuable electronics and speakers as well. It can be shut off when watching a movie, but it runs fairly quietly.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I run a GE dehumidifier in the basement. It runs constantly. I'm a bit obsessive about dehumidifying as well as humidifying in the winter to maintain a constant upper 40's. You are running a fan outside the house to dehumidify? Is it like a radon system fan? I haven't heard of this method. Thanks for sharing I'll have to investigate this.


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## sbowers2

Don't move into a senior mobile home park, and hope to run a full-blown, THX-esque HT! Already had the sheriff visit . . .  Got flex walls?


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## healthnut

Patriot666 said:


> I run a GE dehumidifier in the basement. It runs constantly. I'm a bit obsessive about dehumidifying as well as humidifying in the winter to maintain a constant upper 40's. You are running a fan outside the house to dehumidify? Is it like a radon system fan? I haven't heard of this method. Thanks for sharing I'll have to investigate this.




There was a pail-type dehumidifier in he basement when we moved in. It was noisy, almost always on, and had to be emptied frequently. I replaced it with a Panasonic fan I found on Amazon, you connect the fan to the ceiling and run ductwork to the outside (be careful to seal the outside vent carefully or water can come into your basement walls). You can buy several sensing switches (or manual only). I wanted one that sensed automatically and turned the fan on when humidity was sensed, but that I could also adjust the sensitivity of and manually turn on and off. I bought the Leviton, for around $20. Now, I'm good to go. Unfortunately for me, excessive humidity from pervious owners caused moisture problems in the walls, which I replaced (sound proofing and properly insulating as I went). The new walls should stay moisture free and I'm confident now my equipment will not be damaged by moisture. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## healthnut

Btw, the Panasonic is strictly a dehumidifier, it's not a radon system fan. Heard about it on a home improvement radio program. (Glen Haege). Really surprised no one's mentioned the value of a ceiling mounted dehumidification system for a basement home theater, it's quite important.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Patriot666

healthnut said:


> Btw, the Panasonic is strictly a dehumidifier, it's not a radon system fan. Heard about it on a home improvement radio program. (Glen Haege). Really surprised no one's mentioned the value of a ceiling mounted dehumidification system for a basement home theater, it's quite important.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My GE has an internal pump that auto drains out to my washer drain. It works well but runs constantly. I'm not sure it'd be worth it to cut a hole in the wall to the exterior to do what you did. It's something to consider though, thanks. I am considering doing that to run a backup water powered sump pump. Ie the sump pump that needs no electricity, just water pressure from the public water supply. Also it will work indefinitely, even if power is out for weeks, whereas a battery backup would run out of juice eventually. After lots of research it seems like a great solution to me as you're much more likely to lose electricity than water. https://www.amazon.com/Basepump-Wat...id=1469842036&sr=8-4&keywords=water+sump+pump


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## healthnut

Patriot666 said:


> My GE has an internal pump that auto drains out to my washer drain. It works well but runs constantly. I'm not sure it'd be worth it to cut a hole in the wall to the exterior to do what you did. It's something to consider though, thanks. I am considering doing that to run a backup water powered sump pump. Ie the sump pump that needs no electricity, just water pressure from the public water supply. After lots of research it seems like a great solution to me as you're much more likely to lose electricity than water. https://www.amazon.com/Basepump-Wat...id=1469842036&sr=8-4&keywords=water+sump+pump




Sump pumps are also an important, (though often overlooked), part of properly maintaining a basement. This is valuable information for sure, thanks for posting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Scott 44

I would have use liquid nails on all my soffits. The 2 12 SVS subs are starting to rattle the wood veneer that was brad nailed and wood glued. where there are low spots the glue did not adhere:disappointed::weary:


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## SeanP48072

what I would do different is hire a dedicated theater designer


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## healthnut

Scott 44 said:


> I would have use liquid nails on all my soffits. The 2 12 SVS subs are starting to rattle the wood veneer that was brad nailed and wood glued. where there are low spots the glue did not adhere:disappointed::weary:




You might have been better served using screws rather than nails also.


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## Scott 44

I would love to see how you hide wood screws on a finished veneer paneling and crown molding:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::joy::joy:


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## LastButNotLeast

I think he meant to say you're screwed.


----------



## GreySkies

Scott 44 said:


> I would love to see how you hide wood screws on a finished veneer paneling and crown molding:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::joy::joy:


I used wood plugs and a little bit of filler with all the wood trim I put in the media room in my last house.


----------



## erkq

GreySkies said:


> I used wood plugs and a little bit of filler with all the wood trim I put in the media room in my last house.


Yes, that's a common method, but not without compromise, depending on how detailed you want to be. It's hard to have continuous grain through a plug!  But it's the way I'd do it too if I had wood trim.


----------



## mastermaybe

Can't say for certain just yet as I love the aesthetic and I'm not convinced (at least with just drywall and insulation, anyway) it REALLY would have made that much of a difference regarding the SPL upstairs- but, perhaps, dry-walling and insulating my ceiling.







James


----------



## Jk7.2

What would I have done differently, go DIY for speakers and subs right away. I spent a lot of money doing everything twice, but am happy now with the results. Diysound group makes it so easy to diy and I love their products. Also, when I built the room in my basement I had no idea where this hobby would take me. So I didn't sound proof anything. It would have been nice to do so even if just for a tighter room with less rattles. Cool thread. I like to see everyone's work.


----------



## Renron

blafarm;
However said:


> I'm pretty sure you meant LOW voltage A/C with High voltage A/C. You seem to know what your talking about. If your running DC to your speakers , your in big trouble. Pop goes the tweeters....
> If you are referring to DC as in low voltage lighting, it won't make them noisy.
> 
> You are absolutely correct that Hi and Low voltage should NEVER be run in the same conduit or Jbox. It's against code and it's dangerous. Just wanting to be clear about DC to speakers.


----------



## BeerandBread

*Along the same lines.....lol*



blafarm said:


> Also, make sure ALL of your components are powered by the same electrical circuit in your breaker box. If they are not, use extension cords, if possible, to temporarily migrate ALL components (audio, video, network, etc.) to the same breaker and see if your noise goes away.
> 
> These are just the beginning steps in troubleshooting a problem that has plagued even the most carefully designed systems.


OK.....Next time I'd read more of this thread 

On the same subject....ALTHOUGH ITS AN AUGUST POST 

I've run 12Ft of 12/3 wire and have two separate 20amp breakers feeding two separate lines RED and BLACK... but split into 2 supplies at the screen wall.

One is to feed a wall heater without a fan...
So first question is... Will my Heater and my AVR Receiver wire housed in the same wire casing present a HUM problem although they are on 2 breakers??

2nd wire line is to feed THREE 20amp duplex outlet receptacle on the theater screen wall. One for the AVR and one of these was for the SUB and i'm afraid I may have to run another leg to the back of the theater to supply the REAR SUB......IF all AVR and Subs are to be on the same leg??.


----------



## blafarm

Renron said:


> I'm pretty sure you meant LOW voltage A/C with High voltage A/C.


You are absolutely correct. Too many forums and too little time is the only excuse for that mischaracterization.


----------



## JimMeader

A thought for any project 

- "Just Because It Can Be Done, Do YOU Really Need It Done" 

Rule of thumb what will be 85% of your usage and build to that, not to the other 15% that you might use.

Also it is best to consider your Stereo listening needs separately from your Home theater needs, visualize them as two different systems not one, even if they are in the same room.

Wire and cat 6 cable are cheap run more than you need look into how they terminate at each location it makes a big difference when actually hooking things up - see next item!!!!!

Look at all your existing equipment and do a DETAILED Wiring Diagram including connector types and described each - No detail can be missed

Subs need an RCA cable Not Speaker Wire very easy to forget.

You will miss something, we all have


----------



## kmhvball

JimMeader said:


> Subs need an RCA cable Not Speaker Wire very easy to forget.


Active Subs with built in Amplifier need RCA/RG6

Passive Subs, driven by an external amplifier, use regular speaker wire.

As mentioned... wire is cheap... wire for both types!


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Actually, mine are Speakon:
https://www.amazon.com/Speakon-Gaug...1477350211&sr=8-2&keywords=100'+speakon+cable
Really hard to get everything right the first time.
Michael


----------



## kmhvball

.... and speakons use normal speaker wire, they just are special ends. I ran 12 awg speaker wire, and added the speakon connectors. You can buy already made speakon wires, or use regular wires, and add the speakon connectors.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Good to know. Will save me some trouble next time.
Thanks!
Michael


----------



## Spyderturbo007

I'd make sure that I put more blocks behind my adjustable depth boxes than I did. Add two layers of 5/8" drywall and 1" of acoustical treatment and even though I used adjustable depth boxes and blocked them out from the studs, I can't get them to come out any further because of the putty pads on the back. Now I need box extensions. 

Oh well, so far that's the worst thing I've run into.......I hope it stays that way.


----------



## mlacek

Can someone point me to a list of "Design Specialists" here on the AVS Forum? I am in need of some expert advice specific to my theater room planning. THanks!


----------



## SierraMikeBravo

mlacek said:


> Can someone point me to a list of "Design Specialists" here on the AVS Forum? I am in need of some expert advice specific to my theater room planning. THanks!


Sure, give me a shout. [email protected]

Thanks
Shawn


----------



## Spazdoc

mlacek said:


> Can someone point me to a list of "Design Specialists" here on the AVS Forum? I am in need of some expert advice specific to my theater room planning. THanks!


I am just north of Chicago and would lover to talk to a local design specialist as well.


----------



## browneaction

jstolzen said:


> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *chinaclipper* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Honestly, I would have used DE or his associates _*from the beginning*..._ I spent $1000 for DRAWINGS.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was just coming here to post the EXACT same thing..like chinaclipper, I actually had a local "designer" (read: sales guy at an electronics store masquerading as a real designer) quote me $1,000..also for DRAWINGS. And, his initial drawings..well, let's just say they were so wrong as to not even be in the ballpark. Fortunately, I never hired him based on his draft and all around lack of confidence that he knew DIDDLY about what he was doing.
> 
> 
> Unless you have HUNDREDS (and I mean HUNDREDS!) of "free hours" to spend reading, researching, analyzing, and all around tearing your hair out, I'd HIGHLY recommend hiring one of the experienced HT design people here on AVS FROM THE GET GO. Don't even TRY to DIY on the design unless you just have a ton of free time on your hands and a twisted interest/obsession to spend every night, every weekend, every free minute for the next 12-24 months obsessing over a project..
> 
> 
> This stuff can get reasonably complicated and hard to get "right". There is absolutely no substitute for experience and knowledge.
> 
> 
> I've pulled in some professional help at the tail end of my project here, but could have saved literally half a year if I'd done that earlier!
> 
> 
> With that said, I'm
Click to expand...


----------



## SierraMikeBravo

I don't think it's the actual planning per se. More like the learning of how before the planning. That can take awhile.


----------



## unretarded

I am not even done yet and if I had it to do over again.................


I would have done it 20 years sooner !


----------



## kciaccio

Jk7.2 said:


> What would I have done differently, go DIY for speakers and subs right away. I spent a lot of money doing everything twice, but am happy now with the results. Diysound group makes it so easy to diy and I love their products. Also, when I built the room in my basement I had no idea where this hobby would take me. So I didn't sound proof anything. It would have been nice to do so even if just for a tighter room with less rattles. Cool thread. I like to see everyone's work.


Can you tell my why the DIY direction was better than buying pre made? 
I just started looking for equipment for the new house I am building and wondering if I should also go this route. Did you save a lot of money?


----------



## LastButNotLeast

You save a lot of money.
You invest a lot of time.
*Usually*, it works out well, but you need skill, tools and patience.
Of course, if YOU'RE building your house, you'll probably be okay. 

LOTS of diy advice available around here, especially for subs, which are pretty straight-forward.

Other helpful links:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/subwoofer-system-kits/287

Michael


----------



## Jk7.2

kciaccio said:


> Jk7.2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What would I have done differently, go DIY for speakers and subs right away. I spent a lot of money doing everything twice, but am happy now with the results. Diysound group makes it so easy to diy and I love their products. Also, when I built the room in my basement I had no idea where this hobby would take me. So I didn't sound proof anything. It would have been nice to do so even if just for a tighter room with less rattles. Cool thread. I like to see everyone's work.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you tell my why the DIY direction was better than buying pre made?
> I just started looking for equipment for the new house I am building and wondering if I should also go this route. Did you save a lot of money?
Click to expand...

I have a system now that performs better then what I could afford to get from a commercial company by a lot. Especially with subs, I paid 2600 for two SVS subs, that sounded great, but for that money I now have 4 18's I built myself. That's for drivers, amps, and mdf. Yes there big and ugly. That's the trade off. But the sound can't be beat for the cost. 
Same with main speakers and surrounds. You pay for a pretty box, the facility and people who build them, and a brand name. Building kits from Diysg with flat packs is easy, you can finish them as nice as you want, and they sound fantastic. 
These are just my opinion and experience. I personally wouldn't do anything different now. I love my setup.


----------



## kciaccio

Jk7.2 said:


> I have a system now that performs better then what I could afford to get from a commercial company by a lot. Especially with subs, I paid 2600 for two SVS subs, that sounded great, but for that money I now have 4 18's I built myself. That's for drivers, amps, and mdf. Yes there big and ugly. That's the trade off. But the sound can't be beat for the cost.
> Same with main speakers and surrounds. You pay for a pretty box, the facility and people who build them, and a brand name. Building kits from Diysg with flat packs is easy, you can finish them as nice as you want, and they sound fantastic.
> These are just my opinion and experience. I personally wouldn't do anything different now. I love my setup.


I suppose if I put them behind the screen they would work great. Is there soldering involved or just plug and play for the electronics part?


----------



## nickbuol

Agreed, I would go all DIY speakers and subs. I've already put the numbers into spreadsheets, and I could get a nice jump up in quality of sound (and I REALLY like my current setups) and output capability. Not that I would max it out, but just for more overhead before coming close to max capacity. In the end, it came out to be almost an exact wash in cost, but the capabilities would be a LOT higher.

Then again, I've built some speakers in the past, built 3 car subs, 2 home theater subs (one that I just built 2 years ago and still use today), so building isn't a problem.

I just didn't know any better, nor did I have the options that people have today via places like the DIY Sound Group to make things even easier.

Without checking my spreadsheet, I believe that the system would be 3 Elusive 1099s for LCR, Volt 10s for surround and Atmos, plus four 3cuft 15" subs (yeah, I could go 18", but still). That is what I would do next time.


----------



## Jk7.2

kciaccio said:


> Jk7.2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have a system now that performs better then what I could afford to get from a commercial company by a lot. Especially with subs, I paid 2600 for two SVS subs, that sounded great, but for that money I now have 4 18's I built myself. That's for drivers, amps, and mdf. Yes there big and ugly. That's the trade off. But the sound can't be beat for the cost.
> Same with main speakers and surrounds. You pay for a pretty box, the facility and people who build them, and a brand name. Building kits from Diysg with flat packs is easy, you can finish them as nice as you want, and they sound fantastic.
> These are just my opinion and experience. I personally wouldn't do anything different now. I love my setup.
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose if I put them behind the screen they would work great. Is there soldering involved or just plug and play for the electronics part?
Click to expand...

There is soldiering involved, but members will do your crossovers for you if you need help. The pcb's in some kits make it nearly fool proof. I knew nothing at all about it, but mine were easy. Placing DIY speakers behind a screen is ideal. No fancy finishing.


----------



## Travis R

I would have added a return air duct from my theater to my AC. My basement and theater room only has one cold air supply and no return. With all the heat the AV equipment makes without adding the 600 btus per person it used to get uncomfortably warm and sometimes downright hot. 

Ive since added a portable air conditioner for summers, and i used a duct booster inline with some flex duct and made an exhaust fan above my stereo equipment at ceiling height to remove the heat of both the PJ and everything else. The exhaust fan though only about 200 cfm works well, and in winter i can crack a windo and it acts as an attic fan for the theater. 

I doubled up on my insulation for sound and didnt think about it trapping all the heat in here as well. 

As far as diy speakers go, its something im considering. Since i have a 2' walkway behind my screen which leads to the back of all my stereo equipment, im seriously considering cutting the area of the painted screen out and doing a diy AT screen and making new speakers for behind the screen, i need a 3rd sub too lol, im thinking car sub this time.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Travis R said:


> i need a 3rd sub too lol, im thinking car sub this time.


No, for reasons you'll get by the dozens when the time comes.
Check my two links, above.
Michael


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Jk7.2 said:


> There is soldiering involved, but members will do your crossovers for you if you need help.


That would be Matt (mtg90), among others, I'm sure. But he did mine. 
Michael


----------



## Travis R

LastButNotLeast said:


> No, for reasons you'll get by the dozens when the time comes.
> Check my two links, above.
> Michael


Well, bout an hour after i posted this the power supply in my PJ burned up....already found a bad IC on one of the circuit boards.....so, no subs will be built anytime soon now lol.... sigh


----------



## sigma722

kmhvball said:


> 5) I would skip the 'screen lights', right in front of my screen...


how come?


----------



## kmhvball

sigma722 said:


> how come?


I frankly just don't use them... I would have preferred being able to put up some black velvet on the ceiling above the screen. The reflections on my ceiling aren't real noticeable, but would have been less with the black velvet.

Saving the time & money to install something I don't use, would have been fine with me!


----------



## drunkpenguin

I think i would have skipped the back row. In 10 years its been used maybe 4 times. Those seats look brand new back there with no butt prints!


----------



## KanosWRX

kmhvball said:


> I frankly just don't use them... I would have preferred being able to put up some black velvet on the ceiling above the screen. The reflections on my ceiling aren't real noticeable, but would have been less with the black velvet.
> 
> Saving the time & money to install something I don't use, would have been fine with me!


I have three lights above my screen as well, while I do like them and think they are needed to add more light to the room when I need to see stuff, I think you could still put up velvet to cover up 99% of the area, minus the 3-4 holes for lights. I have been thinking about doing just that, but its not really a bid deal to me right now.


----------



## glissaid

Quick question guys on My soon to be theater room.The room is 13x22x8,The 13' wall will be the front.All walls are smooth for now except the right wall has a 7'x12' long shelving system pushed up against the front wall.Do you feel the shelving will affect the front sound stage? Sorry can't post pics yet🤔


----------



## glissaid

I could potentially disassemble the shelving and move it to the back of the room and try to use it for some sound defusing and hold my back surround speakers but would rather not.Your thoughts would be very appropriated👍


----------



## SXRDISBEST

glissaid said:


> I could potentially disassemble the shelving and move it to the back of the room and try to use it for some sound defusing and hold my back surround speakers but would rather not.Your thoughts would be very appropriated👍


Wrong thread buddy


----------



## drunkpenguin

SXRDISBEST said:


> Wrong thread buddy


Maybe not. Perhaps this individual has invented a time machine and has come from the future in an attempt to setup his theater "differently" the first time around.


----------



## Patriot666

drunkpenguin said:


> Maybe not. Perhaps this individual has invented a time machine and has come from the future in an attempt to setup his theater "differently" the first time around.


I am still such a novice in terms of how much I still have to learn about building a theater, but there is a guy at work who's just starting to build his basement theater and told me all of his ideas. Double front speakers, car subwoofers, ect. I told him to read the build threads and this thread and that if no one here is doing it, there's a good reason. I told him if there's a great looking/sounding way to do things for cheap someone on this forum has likely found it. It's incredible how much time and money can be saved by time spent reading here. He says he's a member here so hopefully he's doing his homework.


----------



## Mpoes12

Patriot666 said:


> I am still such a novice in terms of how much I still have to learn about building a theater, but there is a guy at work who's just starting to build his basement theater and told me all of his ideas. Double front speakers, car subwoofers, ect. I told him to read the build threads and this thread and that if no one here is doing it, there's a good reason. I told him if there's a great looking/sounding way to do things for cheap someone on this forum has likely found it. It's incredible how much time and money can be saved by time spent reading here. He says he's a member here so hopefully he's doing his homework.


In one way or another I've been a member of this forum, DIYAudio, and HTShack for more than a decade and I've learned a lot. I'll be honest in saying the best learning came from befriending specific knowledgeable professionals in the field (who also often frequented these forums). That's just because there is such a mix of good and bad information, false facts and fake news, on the forums that it can be hard to distinguish. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right. None the less, you can learn a lot here and what you learn, even if its a little wrong, often is better than what you get from a big box store.


Car subwoofers can be ok in a home theater, the major differences typically are just that the suspensions are stiffer and mass higher, They tend to work best in small boxes and don't produce as much very deep bass in a given box due to the high stiffness. None the less, they can work ok. What I find is that many are not well designed and as such are noisy and have higher levels of distortion (that is arguably audible). 


Multiple main speakers is something I wouldn't suggest to anyone unless they had a ton of money, lots of digital processing, very good measurement capabilities, and a great deal of knowledge around acoustics. Your friend (if he is listening) is better off investing that same money into better speakers rather than more speakers. If output is his concern, go with high efficiency and high output designs like the popular DIYSG HT kits.


----------



## Mpoes12

I actually came to this thread to post what I would have done differently, but ended up posting a response to someone else instead.


Ok so here are the list of things I'd have done differently:
-I would have been more insistent with the village and my contractor around the HVAC design to guarantee it was as isolated and soundproof as possible. I spent a lot of time and money and may still have problems.
-I would have spent more time making sure the hat channel was installed as minimally as possible. The carpenters often thought that more is better and I kept having to have them remove extra channels or overly large joints (where the overlap was 2 feet instead of 6")
-I would have allocated money differently so I would have had more to spend on some of the speaker upgrades I need, I wanted to upgrade both my subwoofers and surrounds, but at this point I need to wait
-I would have installed a floating subfloor on isolators, measurements in the room and with an accelerometer on the floor are showing that the HVAC is transmitting LF vibrations and sound through the slab (Admittedly I don't think I could afford to have done this anyway)
-I would have put the equipment up front with the speakers and screen instead of a closet. I wanted to keep the front area open for speakers and hide equipment in a closet, but now the room is not symmetric which I think is more detrimental for sound. Thankfully the closet is attached to an outer soundproof shell and removing it won't impact the soundproofing, so I could fix this in the future if I really wanted to.
-I would have spent the money on low profile ductwork to replace the main lines that created a need for a small soffit. No soffit would have been better. 
-I would have planned for hiding the surround speakers at the outset. I was concerned about compromising the soundproofing but now feel it will be difficult to hide the surrounds in my narrow room. I have plenty of room behind the walls, but instead need to take up space in the room for the surrounds.


----------



## edge928

1. Run 1.5" conduit to the stage for speaker wire/coaxial/cat6/etc. I just ran it to the projector.
2. I did the no-walls-touching drywall setup (on channel). This made caulking a real pain since the drywall guys left 3/4" gaps in some places and I even helped them put it up. Took me days to caulk, 3-4 layers of it. I would have just butted them together doing it again (and still caulked but much easier). Would have saved lots of money on caulk too.
3. When building my house just 2 years ago I would have dug deeper than our 9' ceilings and given the future theater room 2-3 feet more in width. I ended up with 11' 3" after DD and channel, not enough room for any 3-wide seats centered. In the end I had to push them to one side as a compromise. That end seat is close to a surround speaker and viewing angle is meh.
4. Made sure my HVAC could handle a third zone. Did 2 when we built the house, assumed I could add a third no problem for the theater room. Nope. Would have had to gut everything.

Things I did right:
1. Backer boxes for in-wall surrounds
2. Put up resilient clips and furring channel myself, by the book
3. Used rock wool instead of fiberglass
4. Used flex vent for 2 returns and 2 supplies. Supplies have easy to access dampers for more/less allocation.
5. Put up a functional soffit post-drywall. Can lights and vents in them.
6. Put equipment in another room (mechanical room). No heat, no lights and it was easy to hook up an IR repeater but it's not needed. Phone/tablet controls projector and receiver. Bluetooth and RF for other remotes.
7. Kept an Excel spreadsheet for all costs. Lots of trips to Lowes.
8. Decoupled stage from basement slab


----------



## Rob Dobbs

Video said:


> 2) I would NOT have blown money on Green Glue - I just don't see what the benefit was. ($1000)


I've read a lot of posts on this forum and this is the only negative comment (other than it's a pain to work with) I've seen about Green Glue here. I know an acoustical engineer with more than 40 years in the business doing soundproofing for large industrial jobs, building things like professional soundstage studios, anechoic chambers and work for NASA and the USAF. He says that Green Glue is a total waste of money. Now, I've read the positive comments on here and the links to the studies showing its efficacy. Makes me a little confused, honestly.


----------



## Gouie

I'm one of the confused ones right there with you. It's just so difficult to measure any benefit because you're not building the room twice, once with and once without. 

I went with green glue and I'm not sure I would again if I ever did this a second time. With double drywall and green glue in the joist cavities and clips/channel/double drywall/green glue everywhere I still hear my 100lb wife walking around above me, much fainter than it was but it's there. Of course I don't know how much louder it would have been without the green glue. That is the problem.


----------



## erkq

I used QuietRock (similar to GG in performance) with properly done acoustic caulking at the edges and joints and acoustic putty around all the electrical boxes when we build a duplex in our rather large house. Before installation of the QuietRock measured the results over frequency by placing a speaker on one side and a calibrated mic on the other, using REW to measure sweeps. I then did the same thing when the Quietrock was installed. Above 300Hz the results were OK, with roughly 35 dB of isolation. Above 1,000Hz it went to 40 to 55dB. At 40Hz and below it was terrible, on the order of 10dB or so.

So I think the lesson is it depends on frequency, performing much better at higher frequencies. Footsteps come through, but when we had friends visiting with their 1 year old baby, we heard *nothing *when they were in the rental unit. His high little (big) screams were completely cut out.

Male voices come through as very soft mumblings but female voices are hardly heard at all.

For *residential *isolation it's quite a good investment. We hardly ever know our tenant is there, except when she comes over for dinner and/or a movie. And she has the same experience except for my IB subwoofer, so we try to invite her over for movies a lot! She's a movie hound, so that works out well.

Our ears are so incredibly sensitive that we're fighting an almost impossible task. Cutting the transmitted energy by 1,000 times just isn't enough. Even 10,000 doesn't totally cut it. That's a very difficult thing to do and sound is like water. It will find anyplace it can to get through. You have to be *extremely *meticulous!


----------



## LastButNotLeast

erkq said:


> Male voices come through as very soft mumblings but female voices are hardly heard at all.


Could be a market for something like that.


----------



## nickbuol

Keep in mind that not all "acoustical engineers" (or any engineer) are the same. His specialty seems to be inside the room itself, which is VERY important, and the Green Glue is a piece towards soundproofing the room itself. 

I've built 4 rooms of my own now (plus part of 2 others for friends/family over the years), and have done all sorts of things along the way, but my latest space incorporates Green Glue and there IS a significant improvement over other products or over nothing between the drywall layers. I would never go back to not using it.

Containing lower bass energy is extremely difficult, and adding Green Glue (or using products like Quiet Rock) by themselves, or even with some other isolation technologies isn't going to do it. Think underground bunker. LOL

As for footsteps, that is called flanking sound and is completely different than airborne sound energy. For flanking sounds, you need to isolate the walls/ceiling/floor from the rest of the house or space that you are using. Decoupling is your friend here.

We have our master bedroom directly above the theater and I can watch a movie at my normal volume (not reference as I still want to be able to hear in 10 years) and as long as it isn't a massive explosion fest movie (think Transformers), she can sleep right through it as the only thing that she can hear is the LFE and bass, but it is tamed down significantly. 

I went with staggered stud walls and clips/hat channel ceiling for the isolation, added insulation into the cavities (but only one "side" of the wall and didn't "fill" the ceiling as you still want some air in there), put putty around outlets, created backer boxes for lights, did a layer of 5/8" fresh drywall from a drywall company, not box home improvement place, caulked corners, applied green glue before putting on the 2nd layer of 5/8" drywall with a "double load" amount on the ceiling. Added a solid core exterior door with seals as well. 

I made a video of it at one point where I was playing a scene from Oblivion at louder than reference levels, and outside the closed door, yes you could still hear the movie, but when I opened the door, holy crap was it loud. I had a huge grin on my face knowing that I have THAT big of a sound proof improvement without going crazy on cost. I have less than $1000 into all of the "extra" stuff for soundproofing, and keeping in mind that almost $300 was just the door, that really isn't that much.

But putting just Green Glue, using just special drywall, using just insulation in the walls, using just some sort of isolation like staggered studs or clips/channel won't do what people want. It really is a combination of all of this stuff that is needed to really be effective.

(Note: In a previous space, I did double drywall all around and insulation in the wall/ceiling and it was terrible. The staggered studs and clips/channel got rid of the flanking sounds, and the Green Glue really did help with the mids and highs.)


----------



## Rob Dobbs

nickbuol said:


> I have less than $1000 into all of the "extra" stuff for soundproofing, and keeping in mind that almost $300 was just the door, that really isn't that much.


How big is your room? My rough plans show that if I put green glue on all walls and ceiling, and maybe DD+GG between the ceiling joists under the upper level floor, that I would be spending $1-1.5k on GG alone. My room is about 15x27x8


----------



## Medi0gre

Gouie said:


> I'm one of the confused ones right there with you. It's just so difficult to measure any benefit because you're not building the room twice, once with and once without.


Well maybe one of these days you can swing by and compare. My build is one layer of 5/8 with clips just on the ceiling. I'm at about the same stage as you in the build

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## erkq

Yes... footsteps are "flanking" sound. And, worse yet, the floor joists in our home run perpendicular to the wall! The worst! But overall it works pretty well.


----------



## Gouie

Medi0gre said:


> Well maybe one of these days you can swing by and compare. My build is one layer of 5/8 with clips just on the ceiling. I'm at about the same stage as you in the build
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk




Might have to take you up on that. Of course you're welcome to swing by this way as well.


----------



## nickbuol

Rob Dobbs said:


> How big is your room? My rough plans show that if I put green glue on all walls and ceiling, and maybe DD+GG between the ceiling joists under the upper level floor, that I would be spending $1-1.5k on GG alone. My room is about 15x27x8


Your room is just a little bit bigger than mine. I am at 14x25x8.

You need to find a better source of GG it would seem. Like those large 5 gallon buckets and a speed loader. I would also note that there are different "load levels" of Green Glue. I went with a "single load" on the walls, and a "double load" on the ceiling. Everything was DD+GG plus the insulation and some form of decoupling like the clips/hat channel for the ceiling, and staggered studs for the walls. At first I wasn't going to go clips and hat channel for the ceiling, and just load up layers of DD+GG all over, but decoupling the ceiling was probably more important, especially for flanking sound, that the GG on the ceiling. Not saying NOT to use GG on the ceiling, but just saying that it was more critical to decouple for me.


----------



## NuDLP

nickbuol said:


> Your room is just a little bit bigger than mine. I am at 14x25x8.
> 
> You need to find a better source of GG it would seem. Like those large 5 gallon buckets and a speed loader. I would also note that there are different "load levels" of Green Glue. I went with a "single load" on the walls, and a "double load" on the ceiling. Everything was DD+GG plus the insulation and some form of decoupling like the clips/hat channel for the ceiling, and staggered studs for the walls. At first I wasn't going to go clips and hat channel for the ceiling, and just load up layers of DD+GG all over, but decoupling the ceiling was probably more important, especially for flanking sound, that the GG on the ceiling. Not saying NOT to use GG on the ceiling, but just saying that it was more critical to decouple for me.


Nick, how many inches does the dual 5/8" on channel reduce the room size in comparison to the single layer of previously existing drywall? Was that 1/2" before? I guess what I'm asking, since I can math out 2 X 5/8", is how much offset does hat channel create? I'm considering doing my room the same way yours has been done and floating the floor. What did you do to treat your flooring?


----------



## nickbuol

NuDLP said:


> Nick, how many inches does the dual 5/8" on channel reduce the room size in comparison to the single layer of previously existing drywall? Was that 1/2" before? I guess what I'm asking, since I can math out 2 X 5/8", is how much offset does hat channel create? I'm considering doing my room the same way yours has been done and floating the floor. What did you do to treat your flooring?


There is a neat little trick to try to save as much ceiling height as possible. I am attaching a diagram. So instead of losing almost 2.5 - 3 inches just to clips and hat channel, with this method you only lose 1/2" over just putting 2 layers of drywall right on the ceiling joists. That 1/2" loss is well worth the soundproofing benefit to me.

I didn't treat the floor, honestly. This is in my basement and while sound does travel through the concrete, I wasn't going for the "end all, be all" in soundproofing.


----------



## Gouie

Total loss will depend on the clip. I used isomax and lost about 3" with clips, channel, and double drywall. If you are constrained the above approach is a great space saver.


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## NuDLP

nickbuol said:


> There is a neat little trick to try to save as much ceiling height as possible. I am attaching a diagram. So instead of losing almost 2.5 - 3 inches just to clips and hat channel, with this method you only lose 1/2" over just putting 2 layers of drywall right on the ceiling joists. That 1/2" loss is well worth the soundproofing benefit to me.
> 
> I didn't treat the floor, honestly. This is in my basement and while sound does travel through the concrete, I wasn't going for the "end all, be all" in soundproofing.


Genius! I never thought of doing it that way. Could this be done on the walls, as well? Why not brace between studs on the walls and save some space. My main concern is on the width of my room, which is challenging. I have 9ft ceilings and 26 1/2 ft of length to work with but at only 12ft wide the room has some challenges there.


----------



## Mpoes12

nickbuol said:


> Your room is just a little bit bigger than mine. I am at 14x25x8.
> 
> You need to find a better source of GG it would seem. Like those large 5 gallon buckets and a speed loader. I would also note that there are different "load levels" of Green Glue. I went with a "single load" on the walls, and a "double load" on the ceiling. Everything was DD+GG plus the insulation and some form of decoupling like the clips/hat channel for the ceiling, and staggered studs for the walls. At first I wasn't going to go clips and hat channel for the ceiling, and just load up layers of DD+GG all over, but decoupling the ceiling was probably more important, especially for flanking sound, that the GG on the ceiling. Not saying NOT to use GG on the ceiling, but just saying that it was more critical to decouple for me.


I don't understand how you spent so little. What did I do wrong! I have a room that is 24'by11' (I keep using different length numbers because apparently I can't measure). I used Green glue, Clips, Hat channel, caulking, communicating doors, gasket seals for the doors, etc. I have 15 gallons of green glue in my room, with at most 2 gallons left. I went through 15 tubes of acoustic caulk. I forget the total, but well over 100 IB1 clips, 20-30 IB-3 clips, lots of hat channel,etc. The doors are 1.75" 32" wide solid core doors. One is a flush slab and one is a panel type. Both had to be specially ordered because of thickness and dimensions. They were $125 and $150 each prehung. There are numerous other expenses for sound proofing as well. Just the above mentioned was something like $2000. That's still not including the cost of the extra drywall, special HVAC materials, etc. I'd have to go look at my documentation for this, but I want to say that we figured out soundproofing added more than $5000 to the total cost of the theater for all materials and extra labor.


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## Gouie

I'm with you. I'd have to go back to the books but man, I'm well beyond that. I'd say $5,000 or $6,500 CDN is about right.


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## healthnut

My total cost for double drywall, isolation clips, green glue caulk, insulation, miscellaneous hardware and labor was in the neighborhood of $25,000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mpoes12

healthnut said:


> My total cost for double drywall, isolation clips, green glue caulk, insulation, miscellaneous hardware and labor was in the neighborhood of $25,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Is that just materials or materials and labor? How big is your space? That's a lot but if the space was massive enough and you went all out I would believe it. My costs would have doubled or tripled had I gone with soundproof doors, better gaskets, etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ashleyjohn

Add attractive and functional storage furniture. It provides great help in keeping everything in place and the home theater looks amazing too. Don’t forget to add super comfy chairs.


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## BIGmouthinDC

healthnut said:


> My total cost for double drywall, isolation clips, green glue caulk, insulation, miscellaneous hardware and labor was in the neighborhood of $25,000.


whoa! The materials you listed should run 4-7K depending on the size of the theater.


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## LastButNotLeast

What part of the "*and labor*" are you guys missing?
Michael


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## nickbuol

I'm my own labor. LOL


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## healthnut

LastButNotLeast said:


> What part of the "*and labor*" are you guys missing?
> 
> Michael




Yes my main contractor was being paid $30/hr, plus I had young helpers paid $10/hour, and the project took about 10 months, working 2 days a week. I believe that figure also included new hardware (receiver, projector) and ceiling speakers. The labor was the biggest single expense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## klimo

Here's one for the things I did right.

Spancreted a 4+ garage and built the theater underneath it. Did wonders for sound proofing 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## brazensol

nickbuol said:


> Keep in mind that not all "acoustical engineers" (or any engineer) are the same. His specialty seems to be inside the room itself, which is VERY important, and the Green Glue is a piece towards soundproofing the room itself.
> 
> I've built 4 rooms of my own now (plus part of 2 others for friends/family over the years), and have done all sorts of things along the way, but my latest space incorporates Green Glue and there IS a significant improvement over other products or over nothing between the drywall layers. I would never go back to not using it.
> 
> Containing lower bass energy is extremely difficult, and adding Green Glue (or using products like Quiet Rock) by themselves, or even with some other isolation technologies isn't going to do it. Think underground bunker. LOL
> 
> As for footsteps, that is called flanking sound and is completely different than airborne sound energy. For flanking sounds, you need to isolate the walls/ceiling/floor from the rest of the house or space that you are using. Decoupling is your friend here.
> 
> We have our master bedroom directly above the theater and I can watch a movie at my normal volume (not reference as I still want to be able to hear in 10 years) and as long as it isn't a massive explosion fest movie (think Transformers), she can sleep right through it as the only thing that she can hear is the LFE and bass, but it is tamed down significantly.
> 
> I went with staggered stud walls and clips/hat channel ceiling for the isolation, added insulation into the cavities (but only one "side" of the wall and didn't "fill" the ceiling as you still want some air in there), put putty around outlets, created backer boxes for lights, did a layer of 5/8" fresh drywall from a drywall company, not box home improvement place, caulked corners, applied green glue before putting on the 2nd layer of 5/8" drywall with a "double load" amount on the ceiling. Added a solid core exterior door with seals as well.
> 
> I made a video of it at one point where I was playing a scene from Oblivion at louder than reference levels, and outside the closed door, yes you could still hear the movie, but when I opened the door, holy crap was it loud. I had a huge grin on my face knowing that I have THAT big of a sound proof improvement without going crazy on cost. I have less than $1000 into all of the "extra" stuff for soundproofing, and keeping in mind that almost $300 was just the door, that really isn't that much.
> 
> But putting just Green Glue, using just special drywall, using just insulation in the walls, using just some sort of isolation like staggered studs or clips/channel won't do what people want. It really is a combination of all of this stuff that is needed to really be effective.
> 
> (Note: In a previous space, I did double drywall all around and insulation in the wall/ceiling and it was terrible. The staggered studs and clips/channel got rid of the flanking sounds, and the Green Glue really did help with the mids and highs.)


Curious as to the difference between fresh drywall and box store drywall.


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## nickbuol

brazensol said:


> Curious as to the difference between fresh drywall and box store drywall.


They way that I understand it from the research back when I did my last build, the box store drywall is generally sitting a lot longer at some distributor warehouse, then sent to a big box staging warehouse, then at some point shipped to your local store. This makes the drywall much more brittle.

Fresh drywall usually found at a place that specializes in drywall usually sits in their own storage only and comes direct from the manufacturer, eliminating at least one extra stay in at least one warehouse. This drywall is also treated as "first in, first out" meaning that the drywall never sits very long. Throw in that construction companies crank through this drywall fast, means that it isn't nearly as brittle as the dried out big box stuff.

Now, when the drywall is hung, that isn't a big deal, but the fresh drywall cuts easier and cleaner, doesn't chip chunks when you cut around electrical boxes, etc.

That is only part of the picture. The other part is that the big box stores generally get a lower grade drywall that has a lot more air pockets and bubbles. This makes for an inconsistent wall "structure" as well. 

So are these things super important? Not extremely. There are other things in a person's room that will be much more important than this, but when you can get that drywall for less money, delivered right into your house, for less than making several trips to a big box store and hauling it yourself, it is already a no brainer. Throw in that the fresh drywall from the supplier is a better quality and not "old" is just a bonus.

Of course, each drywall supply store will have some sort of minimal amount of drywall that you have to buy in order to get it delivered, and of course the more you buy, the better the price. 

I was fishing my basement with over 1500sqft of floor space and a number of rooms, plus did double drywall in the theater room, so I got a really good price, but even at lower quantity, I would have still gotten a better price and free delivery inside my house.


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## brazensol

That's some good to know stuff there Nick!


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## internetn

Used Paint instead of a screen for the projector without knowing what gain was..
center speaker was above the screen not below..
back 2 speakers were too far behind couch..


----------



## bjorg

I'm the process of designing my first home-theater. I've enlisted the help of a HT contractor for the equipment installation/wiring and CinemaTech for technical drawings of the room. I'm happy with both, but I'm missing the input of an HT designer. Someone who is as passionate about squeezing every bit of performance out of this setup as I am. The dedicated movie room will 28' by 18' and the current design uses 28 speakers+subs. So it's not a small project!

Does anyone have any recommendations where to find someone who is madly passionate about speaker locations and room optimizations in SoCal? Thanks!


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## LastButNotLeast

We are! Can you post what you have here and you'll get PLENTY of input.
Start a thread.
Michael


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## jjcook

Beyond the great help here, you can try Nyal Mellor at Acoustic Frontiers -- very passionate and knowledgable guy.


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## AXLCMT

My Canon ELPH camera got a lot of dust in it and it eventually got damaged because I kept putting it in my pocket without a protective bag around it.
The dust got inside the camera and made the photos of my build (see my build thread below) towards the end more out of focus. Protect your camera by investing in a bag and do everything possible to protect it from dust. The dust was so bad that it stopped the automatic lense cover from opening all the way. Even after I used my air compressor to blow the dust out of the camera, the camera still kept dust inside it. If you look at my build thread you will see that the photos at the beginning are crystal clear, but as you get towards the end the photos are not clear.


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## Jar Jar Insano

bmackrell said:


> I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.


Can you explain this a bit more on how you would have done it? I'm in the process of researching what to do/basic design and this one really caught my attention. That would be super annoying!


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## mmenne977

bmackrell said:


> I wish I would have thought to isolate the bracing I installed between the joists in the ceiling for my projector mounting area. after all the sound proofing (double sheet rock w/Green Glue) there's now way to go back. When my family walks, or in the case of my kids, runs/jumps across the family room directly above the theater it shakes the projector. It's actually quite annoying.


I'm just starting my theater. I got the permit approved yesterday and I have the day off tomorrow to start putting up some walls. What would you have done to avoid this? My projector shakes all the time right now when my kids run across the floor or walk like elephants (this happens quite frequently).


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## bmackrell

You can either try additional bracing where the projector is going but you will still probably get vibrations passed through so trying to isolate that area from the surrounding joists might be best.

You'll have to research some of the construction threads and look for techniques and devices to isolate beams. 

I would also suggest you run a large conduit to the area the project will be going for upgrade-ability and also apply a piece of plywood after isolating the area so you have lots of options when attaching the projector mount.

Good Luck,

BillMac


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## dlinsley

You can see how I decoupled in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/2463546-litter-box-theater-remodel.html#post49404961

However, if I had room I would have used new joists laying on top of the top plates of the walls but there wasn't space in the existing bay with the boxes for the ceiling speakers. It still gets some vibrations through though, so I'm not sure it was worth the effort.


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## blazar

I would ONLY use products that do NOT require special integration for control.

Amplifiers - 12v triggers or signal sensing triggers
Projector - 12v trigger input ideal
Motorized screens and shades - 12v trigger ideally (or a fixed screen so you don't even mess with this at all)

Basically, you end up with a lot more expensive control system once you have to go to control4/crestron/AMX etc. At least a system that can be handled with the new homekit/alexa/googlehome concepts is now helpful (if available).

Go ahead and do an IR repeater in the room since they cost so little. It is reliable and is generally cross compatible. If you can IR control your receiver, then you can have the receiver 12v trigger everything else in theory.

Think about this in product selection and life will be dramatically simpler and more reliable in your media room.


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## LydMekk

Next time I would skip all RGB lighting. In my eyes the result does not make the investment worth it with Z-Wave modules, trafos etc.
Not to mention setup time, error searches.


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## just jim

mmenne977 said:


> I'm just starting my theater. I got the permit approved yesterday and I have the day off tomorrow to start putting up some walls. What would you have done to avoid this? My projector shakes all the time right now when my kids run across the floor or walk like elephants (this happens quite frequently).


Basically, unless you have a concrete floor above, you need to isolate the projector from the joists above. If the floor joists run across the theater, and you have "X" bracing (2x2's in a X pattern which stiffen your floor. (You could substitute X bracing in these two space if you have solid bracing.)) figure out how big a piece of lumber that you could fit under the X and not touching (even when someone is jumping on the floor above) the bracing. Run two new joists in adjacent joist spaces and support them on beams or foundation at each end. Even 2 - 2x4's on edge would hold the weight of a projector on a 16' span. If you are building a wall within a wall, support them on the isolated wall. Bolts should go through the drywall (with enough room for the DW to move without touching the bolt. Fill the gap with green glue or acoustic seal.) to support the projector. The drywall, if it is screwed to joists, even via isolators, should not touch the projector joists

It really doesn't matter what kind of bracket or bracing you use for reinforcement, if the floor moves when you walk on it, the whole assembly, including the projector, will move with it.


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## mcallister

dlinsley said:


> You can see how I decoupled in this post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-dedicated-theater-design-construction/2463546-litter-box-theater-remodel.html#post49404961
> 
> However, if I had room I would have used new joists laying on top of the top plates of the walls but there wasn't space in the existing bay with the boxes for the ceiling speakers. It still gets some vibrations through though, so I'm not sure it was worth the effort.


How well does this work using the IB-3’s? Satisfied with the results?


----------



## dlinsley

mcallister said:


> How well does this work using the IB-3’s? Satisfied with the results?


Previously my mount was bolted into just one joist, and so although the IB clips given it some reduction in vibration, the source of vibrations is now two joists rather than one. They are less jolting, but if the kids jump directly above it does still vibrate. Maybe that's a good result, I was just hoping for better.

As Just Jim describes, if you can run two new joists just for the projector. That was my plan, I just didn't have the room in the joist bay I needed to use.


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## A.T.M.

*List of Posts 0-1119*

Greetings,

Long time lurker (12 years), first time poster. I figured I would save some folks some time and make a list of the first 1119 posts of this thread. I'm sure there are misspelled words and some contradictions, but I tried to make the list similar to what was posted.

My most current laptop doesn't have word on it, so I included an old copy of word 1997-2004 and a pdf copy of it from my other laptop just to be on the safe side.

I hope it works and you all can enjoy, or at least save you some time. 

Aaron


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## TomCruz

*Large screen sizes - > 135 inches diag*

In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.
I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.

Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?
Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?


----------



## healthnut

TomCruz said:


> In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.
> 
> I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?
> 
> Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?




The main issue with very large screens is distributing light over such a large area compromises significantly 4k HDR presentations. Sufficient light output is difficult enough on a 100” screen (especially compared to an LCD or even OLED). Viewing distance should also be considered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jpbb2003

What would I do different next time, so far only one thing....

Hold some money on the carpenter until you can visually inspect his work. Don't leave the money with your wife to give him at the end of the day before you see what he did.

At least this way, he can't say 'Good luck trying to fix it' if you still owe him money.


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## carboranadum

TomCruz said:


> In many HT designs I have seen, I feel the screen sizes are restricted to under 100". Typically it looks like a large TV.
> I use wall to project image of 135" and am planning to move the projector behind so that it can be 150-160". This is the size I believe where the height of my basement wall would be the limiting factor.
> 
> Is there any reason most designs stick to screen sizes under 100" in general?
> Any drawbacks of going larger screen size?


Lack of imagination comes to mind. If they aren't hardcore movie buffs (with a dedicated theater), many folks go small to be more multipurpose.

In the vein of full disclosure, my theater has a 142" 2.35:1 screen on a 13.5' wall.


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## TomCruz

healthnut said:


> The main issue with very large screens is distributing light over such a large area compromises significantly 4k HDR presentations. Sufficient light output is difficult enough on a 100” screen (especially compared to an LCD or even OLED). Viewing distance should also be considered.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking about projector images rather than LCD/OLED TVs.. Sure TVs would have a practical size and cost limit say beyond 80"


----------



## TomCruz

nickbuol said:


> There is a neat little trick to try to save as much ceiling height as possible. I am attaching a diagram. So instead of losing almost 2.5 - 3 inches just to clips and hat channel, with this method you only lose 1/2" over just putting 2 layers of drywall right on the ceiling joists. That 1/2" loss is well worth the soundproofing benefit to me.


Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to hanging drywall on clips as opposed to putting a drop ceiling with Acoustic tiles?


----------



## nickbuol

TomCruz said:


> Just out of curiosity, is there any advantage to hanging drywall on clips as opposed to putting a drop ceiling with Acoustic tiles?


What is your objective? Soundproofing? If so, then yes. Drop ceilings are terrible at sound proofing. You would be better off with a regular single layer of drywall than using drop ceiling tiles for sound proofing. Sure, there are some marketing materials out there that say that some places sell "soundproofing ceiling tiles," but I wouldn't believe it.

To soundproof, you need several things, mass (won't get that with ceiling tiles), decoupling (depending on how you are hanging things, this might be OK) absorption (mostly in-wall with insulation, but "acoustical drop ceiling tiles" might absorb some frequencies), damping, and as few holes/seams as possible (so many seams with drop ceilings). Throw in there that a lot of people have drop ceilings that rattle or tiles that vibrate when exposed to some home theater levels of bass and LFE.

The biggest advantage that a drop ceiling has is that you can run wires up there. That is really about it from a soundproofing perspective, and I would argue sound quality perspective *IF* it rattles and such. The acoustical drop ceiling panels can help with room acoustics to some degree, but usually they are only part of the solution there. Keeping sound in (and out) is soundproofing and you can have a greatly soundproofed room that does that well, but sounds terrible inside the room (acoustics). Treating the sound inside the room can benefit from a properly installed drop ceiling's panels, but you would get more bang for your buck with broadband acoustical absorption panels than the drop ceiling alone, and those panels can look pretty awesome and be cheap to add. Best of course is a fully measured and treated room with specific absorption and diffusion treatments, but if we are just putting non-measured treatments (like "acoustical drop ceiling panels") in the room, why not put something in that will treat a lot more frequencies, and look good too?

DIY Custom Printed Movie Poster (and other art) Acoustic Panels - CHEAP


----------



## TomCruz

nickbuol said:


> What is your objective? Soundproofing? If so, then yes. Drop ceilings are terrible at sound proofing. You would be better off with a regular single layer of drywall than using drop ceiling tiles for sound proofing. Sure, there are some marketing materials out there that say that some places sell "soundproofing ceiling tiles," but I wouldn't believe it.
> 
> To soundproof, you need several things, mass (won't get that with ceiling tiles), decoupling (depending on how you are hanging things, this might be OK) absorption (mostly in-wall with insulation, but "acoustical drop ceiling tiles" might absorb some frequencies), damping, and as few holes/seams as possible (so many seams with drop ceilings). Throw in there that a lot of people have drop ceilings that rattle or tiles that vibrate when exposed to some home theater levels of bass and LFE.
> 
> The biggest advantage that a drop ceiling has is that you can run wires up there. That is really about it from a soundproofing perspective, and I would argue sound quality perspective *IF* it rattles and such. The acoustical drop ceiling panels can help with room acoustics to some degree, but usually they are only part of the solution there. Keeping sound in (and out) is soundproofing and you can have a greatly soundproofed room that does that well, but sounds terrible inside the room (acoustics). Treating the sound inside the room can benefit from a properly installed drop ceiling's panels, but you would get more bang for your buck with broadband acoustical absorption panels than the drop ceiling alone, and those panels can look pretty awesome and be cheap to add. Best of course is a fully measured and treated room with specific absorption and diffusion treatments, but if we are just putting non-measured treatments (like "acoustical drop ceiling panels") in the room, why not put something in that will treat a lot more frequencies, and look good too?
> 
> DIY Custom Printed Movie Poster (and other art) Acoustic Panels - CHEAP


This is very good info, I was under the impression that tiles are better. Thanks for such nice detailed response.


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## Mashie Saldana

I would have picked a different room to use, having a very narrow curved staircase to get up as well as windows on all 4 walls made things interesting.


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## Gouie

Door(s), buy them. I was ambitious and added a sheet of MDF to each of two doors. Very time consuming and expensive.


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## LydMekk

Doors: Do have them prepainted, even the multiple layers MDF variety.
Do not try to get a nice finish after they are hung on the frame...
Same for the border trim. So much easier to paint beforehand and not do it attached to the frame.


----------



## avtvhdbass

I would redo my theater with the below, me watching movies only.

1.Sound Proof to the maximum.
2.Better Gauge speaker wires (10/12 AWG, mine runs on 16AWG) room size is 20.5LX12.5WX7.7H
3.Subwoofers better buy the biggest you can, of course the $$ (I have a placed an order for 18", presently running on dual 12" subs).
4.Dedictaed 20AMP power lines everywhere you can think off (Sub-woofers, Racks)
5.Theaters seats try them before you buy them.
6.Automated screen masking 
7.In the excitement to get theater finished do not rush into finishing theater. 
8.Trust the experts but verify.
9.Anything in your field of vision like scones/reflective materials will distract you.
10.Learn REW or get some expert from AVS to do it for you.
11.Run conduits for speaker area and overhead and everywhere you can think of

Most of the items has been documented in this post. 
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...do-differently-next-time-38.html#post55641388

I found AVS members to be extremely knowledgeable than the dealers/installers I have came across.

The journey continues to build a perfect theater .


----------



## Iwanthd

I am installing a screen wall in front of our theater room and I am struggling with the decision to add in wall speakers vs. floorstanding. I also want to know how people install subwoofers in front screen walls. I understand the "box in a box" thing is a bad idea, so what do people do for subs in a screen wall? Is there a resource on this topic I am missing?


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## LydMekk

Wrong thread.
This is about what you screwed up and would do differently in your next build.


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## Iwanthd

My apologies. Thank you.


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## niccolo

Iwanthd said:


> I am installing a screen wall in front of our theater room and I am struggling with the decision to add in wall speakers vs. floorstanding. I also want to know how people install subwoofers in front screen walls. I understand the "box in a box" thing is a bad idea, so what do people do for subs in a screen wall? Is there a resource on this topic I am missing?



It is the wrong thread, but briefly...in-wall speakers generally involve some compromises as compared to non-in-walls (whether floorstanding or "bookshelf"), though there are some very good, and very expensive, in-walls out there these days. If you can fit traditional speakers behind your screen wall (and if you can fit a sub back there you can definitely fit speakers), you'll get way more for your money that way. A screen wall is usually mostly fabric stretched over a light frame, so putting a sub back there is unlikely to be a problem, assuming that's a viable room location for the sub (in other words, what matters is finding a location for the sub where it best excites room modes in a way that produces good bass at your listening position(s), not so much its interaction with the false screen wall).


If we continue this conversation here we're going to piss people off, so best to take this to another existing thread or start your own thread.


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## Iwanthd

Understood. Thanks for your help!


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## below90hz

avtvhdbass said:


> 3.Subwoofers better buy the biggest you can, of course the $$ (I have a placed an order for 18", presently running on dual 12" subs).



Just a tip if you haven't considered it and have the room: use your 12's up front and place the 18" nearfield for couch shake duty. Crossover the highpass to a lower frequency, and try to level match the 12's to the 18 if the ability to localize it bothers you.


My brother runs his nearfield 16x 12's at full subwoofer range frequencies. Sounds amazing but I occasionally get distracted by the direction it's coming from. I prefer to get shotgun blasted from the direction of the screen and have only the low stuff right on top of me.


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## Tsip

I need your opinions. I have a media room with the front walls and ceiling painted flat black and I'm very happy with the color. But, behind the seating area I have walls that are painted a_[gawd awful_ pumpkin orange and I'm wondering if it would be ok (reflection/viewing-wise) to paint over the orange with an off white or other relatively lighter color? Would that affect the viewing points in front of them negatively in any manner? Thanks.


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## niccolo

Tsip said:


> I need your opinions. I have a media room with the front walls and ceiling painted flat black and I'm very happy with the color. But, behind the seating area I have walls that are painted a_[gawd awful_ pumpkin orange and I'm wondering if it would be ok (reflection/viewing-wise) to paint over the orange with an off white or other relatively lighter color? Would that affect the viewing points in front of them negatively in any manner? Thanks.



I'm assuming you have a standard front projector, not a TV (or rear projection setup). If so, the blackest black your system can display is the color of your screen, when the room is as dark as it gets, minus any stray light that hits those areas, both directly from the projector and reflected from elsewhere. A white rear wall is going to reflect a lot of light. That said, a projector can look damn good even in a fully white room (that's otherwise light controlled). So it's really a question of how finicky you are about maximizing the black levels/contrast. And the dividends on your light control in your room will be higher for a higher-end, higher-contrast projector. If you are going to have some lighter walls, it seems to me the side walls may be better candidates for that than the back wall. Also, since you mentioned the possibility of colors other than off-white, be mindful that you can cast color onto your screen, e.g. a green or blue (or orange) can reflect a surprising amount of colored light in the direction of your screen.


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## Tsip

niccolo said:


> I'm assuming you have a standard front projector, not a TV (or rear projection setup). If so, the blackest black your system can display is the color of your screen, when the room is as dark as it gets, minus any stray light that hits those areas, both directly from the projector and reflected from elsewhere. A white rear wall is going to reflect a lot of light. That said, a projector can look damn good even in a fully white room (that's otherwise light controlled). So it's really a question of how finicky you are about maximizing the black levels/contrast. And the dividends on your light control in your room will be higher for a higher-end, higher-contrast projector. If you are going to have some lighter walls, it seems to me the side walls may be better candidates for that than the back wall. Also, since you mentioned the possibility of colors other than off-white, be mindful that you can cast color onto your screen, e.g. a green or blue (or orange) can reflect a surprising amount of colored light in the direction of your screen.


good info thx Nic


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## kagtha

What would I do different?

I will tell you...

I would hide this forum from myself so I stop spending so much $ and time perfecting the untamable for standard hardwood floor family living room environments.

Oh yeah, and after selecting the best possible room in my home, I would focus more on LCR drivers, sensitivity, size, and placement vs trying to understand if the $300 Ultimax 18" Marty Subwoofer is worth spending the extra moolah vs the $99 18" VBSS builds.

The room is sooooo important! The room I picked before I was injected with AVS truth fails the simple clap test miserably.









Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Russell Burrows

Next time i will read more cult infinite baffle forum plus more acoustics books as its is far cheaper than trying to assume know but then finding out my uber project fails bad.

Ie built concrete ib project and avs forum was kicker car subwoofers are a fails 
Yup and six blown subwoofers later arrogant me listen to avs forum and i learn that ib is fi car audio ib 318 v2 subwoofers 
Dumb me listen so thanks avs forum for telling me about going ib 318 v2 subwoofers


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## artsci2

I used UltraTouch ground cotton denim insulation to build 7.5" thick 8ftx8ft and 8ftx12ft sound adsorbers. It took two layers of R-19 batts to get the 7.5" thickness. (Nominal thickness: 2 x 5.5") Some of the batts were undersize in width also and they could not be expanded. The whole process was dusty and I worry about more dust being released by bumping or touching the adsorbers. They are now covered with moving blankets.

The next room went much faster. 8" deep shelves spaced 18" from floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall are filled with pillows and hidden by curtians. The pillows are bought in bulk and are nominally 20"x26" The actuall space taken by the pillows on the shelves are 17.25" high and 12" wide. So a 12ft shelf needs 12 pillows per shelf. We did an entire room with shelves-pillows in the time it took to build one Ultratouch adsorber. The cost is about the same per square foot of wall.


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## nickbuol

artsci2 said:


> I used UltraTouch ground cotton denim insulation to build 7.5" thick 8ftx8ft and 8ftx12ft sound adsorbers. It took two layers of R-19 batts to get the 7.5" thickness. (Nominal thickness: 2 x 5.5") Some of the batts were undersize in width also and they could not be expanded. The whole process was dusty and I worry about more dust being released by bumping or touching the adsorbers. They are now covered with moving blankets.
> 
> The next room went much faster. 8" deep shelves spaced 18" from floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall are filled with pillows and hidden by curtians. The pillows are bought in bulk and are nominally 20"x26" The actuall space taken by the pillows on the shelves are 17.25" high and 12" wide. So a 12ft shelf needs 12 pillows per shelf. We did an entire room with shelves-pillows in the time it took to build one Ultratouch adsorber. The cost is about the same per square foot of wall.


Why not just use actual acoustical insulation? 2" OC703 or equivalent plus a 2" air gap to boost performance, and you have some super nice broadband absorption that should outperform the pillows or denim, and take up a lot less thickness? Not criticizing, just asking what brought you to that decision?


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## artsci2

nickbuol said:


> Why not just use actual acoustical insulation? 2" OC703 or equivalent plus a 2" air gap to boost performance, and you have some super nice broadband absorption that should outperform the pillows or denim, and take up a lot less thickness? Not criticizing, just asking what brought you to that decision?


http://www.acousticmodelling.com/ml...v13=10000&s14=1&d14=50&s23=2&d23=200&v23=3000

The 8" adsorbs more than an octave deeper. That octave makes the differece between "unbalanced dead" and "clean super tight mid-bass." 
Male vocals sound natural with the thick adsorbers, not so much with the 2" and air gap.

I can completely cover the room in the time it takes to build one 703 adsober. There's no fiberglass hazard with polyfill pillows. 

Doing a full coverage in 703 would cost more than $1000 The pillows and shelves cost less than $500.

I am thinking about 703 for clouds though.


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## nickbuol

artsci2 said:


> http://www.acousticmodelling.com/ml...v13=10000&s14=1&d14=50&s23=2&d23=200&v23=3000
> 
> The 8" adsorbs more than an octave deeper. That octave makes the differece between "unbalanced dead" and "clean super tight mid-bass."
> Male vocals sound natural with the thick adsorbers, not so much with the 2" and air gap.
> 
> I can completely cover the room in the time it takes to build one 703 adsober. There's no fiberglass hazard with polyfill pillows.
> 
> Doing a full coverage in 703 would cost more than $1000 The pillows and shelves cost less than $500.
> 
> I am thinking about 703 for clouds though.


How did you go about modeled polyfilled pillows? There aren't coefficient numbers for them to know where they are absorbing more or less, or did you do tests and measure the absorptive characteristics yourself?

Again, just intrigued by this. Also, I would never tell someone to cover their room in 703 or any absorption technology as that would totally kill the acoustical properties. My room has a combination of absorption materials, including thick denim absorption on the front wall behind my false screen, and my own alternative source of absorption for corner bass traps, so I completely get why you are going different ways. I was still able to model actual results with know materials, so the pillows still throw me a bit, but that's fine. I also would never get away with anything thicker than 4" on my walls (except for the rear wall which is thicker) without feeling the wrath of my wife. LOL


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## LastButNotLeast

nickbuol said:


> my own alternative source of absorption for corner bass traps


Okay, I'll bite: And the alternative source is ...?

Michael


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## nickbuol

LastButNotLeast said:


> Okay, I'll bite: And the alternative source is ...?
> 
> Michael


Shhh.... Don't tell anyone. I would get beat up on the streets for even suggesting this....

Since I had been finishing my entire basement for a year myself, I had a lot of scrap stuff when I got to the home theater (last room to get finished so that I would stay on track with the rest of the basement work). Anyway, I crammed the front corners (and I mean compressed and stuff pretty tight) a bunch of standard, pink, fluffy insulation into the corners. Blasphemy, I know. 

I made sort of a "rack" system out of spare plywood where I cut the plywood into triangles as "shelves" and attached them every 2 feet (ish) up the wall in the corner. I compressed and crammed that insulation in there and then these "shelves" made spots for me to staple on black fabric to hold it in. They are puffy, but it is all behind my false wall anyway. Sort of a "super chunk" style, but not using rigid insulation. The triangles are something like 2' on the walls, and (if my math is correct) 2.83' across the front face. My plan was to eventually replace them if they didn't help much, but the bass in the room tightened up very nicely, so they stayed as is.

Again, don't tell anyone. That is why I was asking about someone else's reasoning behind using pillows. It seemed like a similar mind-set that I had when I did these "bass traps" in the corners of my theater back in 2011.


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## LastButNotLeast

Your secret's safe with me, Nick.

Michael


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## thekyledaley

This thread is very helpful. Thanks guys.


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## Mark the Red

My biggest regret was reading this post here after I spent all this time build a hybrid hush box / return duct system in my theater. All his logic is sound, and I regret not reading it earlier.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-d...1498937-beast-unleashed-198.html#post55095174

I also made the mistake of sizing my projector box to my current projector and assuming future projectors will be smaller so not giving myself much room. 

Nope. They seem to be getting bigger and wider which is contrary to most modern AV tech. I really hope my current projector lasts a long time because I'm kind of stuck with it for now.


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## JohnnyWilkinson

healthnut said:


> My total cost for double drywall, isolation clips, green glue caulk, insulation, miscellaneous hardware and labor was in the neighborhood of $25,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, this is about what I spent to soundproof an area of 140 sqm (1507 sqft), including all materials and labour, a sound proofed in-built sliding door, back boxes for all the speakers and sloped star ceiling.


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## JohnnyWilkinson

So I would add one thing to this thread so far - have everything designed up front.

I had already signed off the construction of my house before deciding to pull the trigger on a home theater. Numerous plans changed as a result of taking this project seriously and that has meant more cost and in some cases, sub-optimal solutions. 

I would also, as everyone always says, allocate significant more space for the theater than I thought I needed to account for all the space wasted for insulation, speakers, decoration etc.


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## dkersten

I posted a short list of what I would change if I had known more in my build thread, but I should share it here:

#1 - I went with a fairly large screen, hoping to get a little more height than a 120" and have a wider screen for movies. In theory it is great, and in reality it is great, but it also came at great cost. You can't just throw up a DIY screen or even a woven AT screen when you have a 150" wide screen, unless you have a light canon like a $60k Sony 5000es. You need screen gain to make it work with HDR, even with the excellent tone mapping that is available today with some projectors and processors, and screen gain over 1.0 in an AT screen means you go with perfed vinyl. Micro-perfed Vinyl has drawbacks, even if you sit the required 11 ft + back from it, and worst of all it is very expensive when you get to this size of screen. Simply going smaller on the screen and sitting closer would have saved a LOT of time and money. I could have gone with DIY spandex or a high end woven screen like a V6 Dream Screen and saved thousands of dollars just on the screen.

#2 - Seating. Given that it is hard to sit in specialized seating before purchase, this one was particularly difficult to deal with. In my case, I started with Fusion seating, which is a good value for the money but the ones I went with lacked lower back support and the headrests were just too far forward for a front row. I put them in the back row and went with Palliser seats I had tried out a couple years earlier at a showroom in California when I was traveling. The problem is, Palliser custom makes the seats to your spec, and the level of stuffing changes from seat to seat, so the one in the showroom might be softer, and there is a fairly long break in period before they are more comfortable. Plus the showroom had the high end 3000 leather, and to save a few dollars I went with cheaper 1000 grade leather, which is WAY less flexible. The result was seats that are not nearly as comfortable as they were in the showroom, even after breaking them in and even after removing some fill from the seats. In hindsight I wish I had spent a couple thousand more on the better leather. And really, while home theater seats look cool, sometimes just a good old fashioned couch will work just as well at a fraction of the price. You sit there for 2 hours or more, and you need to be comfortable or you might as well just go to a public theater. Heck, get a few Lazy boy recliners, put narrow end tables between them, and call it good. Much more comfortable and really the big benefit of the home theater seating is having places to put your drink, snacks, and remotes without them falling between the cracks of the couch... Not easy to do when you have 4 across seating and you sit in the middle. 

#3 - Design. As mentioned in the post before this, having a complete, detailed design before you ever start building is a major time and money saver. I took the approach of getting a rough idea, build a house around that rough idea, and just wing it from there. I spent hours trying to solve problems and design it on the fly, and I should have done this ahead of time. It's tough for a DIY guy to pay someone to do the design, and for me it only cost me my time when I had to stop and ponder a problem before proceeding, but if I were paying a contractor to do it, it would have been very costly, so there is definitely value in having a pro do the design with details. When building a room that costs $15-20k in materials alone, a few thousand for a design really isn't too far out of a cost. 

#4 - Subwoofers. I caught some flak for saying this, but if I were doing it again, I would at least design the bass setup differently if not just scale it down. Part of the reason I went with 6 18's in large vented enclosures was to just try to tame the room by hitting it from all sides. It was successful, but in reality I use about 5% of what I have on "normal" viewing, and maybe 50-70% of the total in the most extreme situations. I had it jacked up higher but it was causing problems like cracked grout upstairs and making the projector move around on the shelf. It's fun, but not really practical. I would have been better off with maybe 4 subs and some MBM's or something... You just don't really need 125db+ at 10hz. 

#5 - Soundproofing. If doing it all over, I would either enclose the entire theater in thick concrete walls, or build a single level house so I don't have people above or below it. In both cases, I would go triple drywall with a full room in room construction. The fact is, soundproofing works excellent for frequencies above 100hz, and even fairly well down to about 50 hz. Below that, your DD+GG is like tissue paper, and when you have over 120db of 10hz making everything move, you might as well have just saved the money and not done any soundproofing. If I am going to go through the efforts again, I want it to work well enough to not hear a movie played at a normal volume to be heard outside the room. That would take a lot, I know, but anything less seems like a waste of money. I get all the reasons to do it, including making the room quiet to start, and that is great, but I can do 95% of that with acoustic absorption materials. 

#6 - Lighting. You can NEVER have too much, and you should NEVER leave it all on over night. Also, spend the money for better quality stuff. My LED strips in the ceiling degraded and I am now in the process of replacing them, which sucks because I didn't design it to be easily replaced. I prewired for full RGBW, which is good, but this is a lot of work to replace. I will eventually add wall sconces and reconfigure switches to be controlled differently, and thankfully I can hide it all in the ceiling and behind panels on the walls. Dark walls and carpet make for dark rooms in the brightest light. It is great for hiding the dust that collects in the corners and on trim, not great when you need to clean or fix something. And when you have a LOT of lights, they make a LOT of heat. My LED's are powered by supplies in another room, but they still get hot (the reason they are degrading), and the very nicely dimmable incandescent lights give off a lot of heat. I left it all on over night once and the room was over 90 degrees when I went in the next day. Oops.


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## mhutchins

dkersten said:


> I posted a short list of what I would change if I had known more in my build thread, but I should share it here:
> 
> #1
> 
> #2
> 
> #3
> 
> #4 - Subwoofers. ... You just don't really need 125db+ at 10hz.
> 
> *Blasphemy!!*, *He's a heretic and should be flogged to within an inch of his life, then keel haul him for good measure!!*
> 
> #5
> 
> #6


Mike


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## snowkarver

So, I've been on hiatus and enjoying my room for 6+ years now, which I guess means I won the "wouldn't have done much differently" lottery.

Until now. I finally decided it was time for a small refresh (low budget in the Theater for Hobbits style, of course) and Atmos has since become the new standard. This of course means running heights, plus some repositioning, and I will soon have a second subwoofer to play around with that came with my new speaker package (the KEF T-series is on sale now for half price).

During the build, there was *much* advice to future-proof by running extra evergreen cables - power, speaker, RG6, etc - to every conceivable location, and plastic conduit for things like network and HDMI. Which I promptly ignored, because I'm not much of a serial upgrader.

*Just do it!* It will make life *so* much easier for your future self. 

Now I have to pull out the fish tape, drywall saw, mud knives and paintbrushes back out, and that makes me sad.


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## just jim

snowkarver said:


> So, I've been on hiatus and enjoying my room for 6+ years now, which I guess means I won the "wouldn't have done much differently" lottery.
> 
> Until now. I finally decided it was time for a small refresh (low budget in the Theater for Hobbits style, of course) and Atmos has since become the new standard. This of course means running heights, plus some repositioning, and I will soon have a second subwoofer to play around with that came with my new speaker package (the KEF T-series is on sale now for half price).
> 
> During the build, there was *much* advice to future-proof by running extra evergreen cables - power, speaker, RG6, etc - to every conceivable location, and plastic conduit for things like network and HDMI. Which I promptly ignored, because I'm not much of a serial upgrader.
> 
> *Just do it!* It will make life *so* much easier for your future self.
> 
> Now I have to pull out the fish tape, drywall saw, mud knives and paintbrushes back out, and that makes me sad.


The best future proofing? ...procrastination! It's working for me!!!


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## Pterosoar

*Budget Home Theater*

I came across this interesting forum and bounced all around it for a couple of weeks. I was inspired to build a home theater. I just "finished" it good enough to get the full experience with the lights off. Watched "Guardians of the Galaxy" to set the light levels and sound setup. Freaking blew me away - and my 3D glasses don't even arrive until Friday. So I thought I'd tell you what I did with my first post here. Now, I'm an old guy on SSI. Frankly, I can't believe what some of you folks spend on this stuff. I saved up $2,000 for a projector, 3D bluray, screen and glasses. That's a lot for me these days. I've spent many years as an audiophile wannabe and already had everything I needed for sound, so I didn't need to spend anything on that side. So here's what I wanted. I wanted to sit in a pitch dark room with a quality projector throwing 3D onto big screen in front of me and a great sound system. I figured I'd have to compromise a lot with only $2,000 but I was wrong. And it was a hellovea lot easier and quicker than I was led to believe. Heck, I only spent three afternoons doing it cause I sleep late and nap a lot. Now, when you're sittin' in the dark, watching a movie play perfectly with killer sound, it don't matter if your equipment is new or used or if you bought it from a dealer or found it at the dump. And I was lucky. All the used stuff I bought on eBay was really good, and if it doesn't work right, eBay will get your money back, as they've done for me a time or two in the past. So I started prowlin' eBay and Craigslist and some of the others, using the knowledge of equipment that I've gained here on your forums - equipment I never laid my hands on before and never knew anything about. So this is a big thank you for all that knowledge. I settled on DLP some time back, cause I don't want to see any pixels. I want the film look. I'm an old film guy. A lot of shooting. A lot of editing and splicing. Some directing. And I learned my lesson about the march of technology when VHS killed off Beta. Beta wasn't just a little better. It was way better. So when LED killed off plasma, same thing. Plasma was way better. It was all marketing BS. Most people fell for it. You can buy plasmas today for almost nothing. I bought a Pioneer FD1 last year for $100. A handmade museum piece. The first HD plasma. Eight grand! Still works perfectly. Gorgeous colors. But I digress. My audio room is the living room of a suburban home, 12 x 22 feet. I previously set it up with a big Onkyo THX TX-SR805 receiver I bought for $120 on Craigslist and some Klipsh and B&W and KEF speakers, also from Craigslist. The guy couldn't figure out how to set up the Onkyo and finally sold it. I've seen this a lot. I love Onkyos. They are a universe unto themselves . Anyway, the room was already set up for 7.1 DTS, THX, Dolby - all the good stuff. Had a picture window in the narrower wall. I filled that with 2-inch foam board and made the room dark as night. Pulled the curtains and rods. It was a twelve-foot wall so I ordered a 135-inch diagonal Vevor projection screen for $175 from Amazon. Took a couple hours to mount it. Pretty easy. I did it by myself. Bought two forged 8-inch angle brackets with lips that fit the screen frame grooves at Home Depot for $16 and hung it. I really wanted a JVC DLP Reference Model. I was ready to settle for anything, even a nonworking unit that needed a new power supply. But I lucked out. Found a 2010 JVC RS50U in Washington, advertised on eBay with low hours on the bulb, offered by a surplus outfit. No remote. No manual. Probably a little-used boardroom projector replaced for a 4k LCD unit, I thought. Got it for $1,300. It appeared to be brand new, shipped in another brand's old box. No feet. Must have been ceiling mounted. Not even a fingerprint on it. The filter was clean and never changed. The original bulb had less than five hours on it. I downloaded the manual and read every page. I had an old 7-foot server rack with adjustable feet. I mounted the projector on the top and set it square to the screen at 21 feet, adjusted the shift and keystone, and it was perfect and quiet. $8,000 new. Found an Oppo 103D Darbee 3D Bluray player in Texas for $425. The original JVC 3D glasses and emitter were a big hit to my budget, even at half the retail price. But I need quality to match the gear. This is a real nice system. A jaw-dropper. Everything cost just over $2,000. I'll send some photos after the 3D stuff gets here.


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## LastButNotLeast




----------



## Lynkage

dkersten said:


> I posted a short list of what I would change if I had known more in my build thread, but I should share it here:


#2 Yep been there done that for I don't know how many times. My wife and I have had a minimum of 9 different seating arrangements! I can tell you that I will never have leather again! PERIOD! We were so fed up with the different seats that we have tried, the last one we tried (still have it) is a very high end dual reclining loveseat we bought for 9K. It's made of the best leather you can possibly get! Bar None! It is a fantastic loveseat and when you touch it it feels like butter and just sucks you in, However.... It's still not comfortable after 2 hours. You sweat or get cold one or the other, or your lower back is not comfortable. We have decide after looking and sitting in LOT's of chairs, with the iPad and watching movies for a minimum of 1.5 hours, that cloth is the way to go. We have also determined that most theater seating just plain sucks. The backs are to high and they are really not that comfortable over a 2 hour span. never again will I by dedicated home theater seat. I have spent over 50K on crappy seating to know better! It's also worth $000 when you need to get rid of it. :/ end rant


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## five9dak

Pterosoar said:


> ...I figured I'd have to compromise a lot with only $2,000 but I was wrong.


If you are patient, and willing to research what the good stuff was 1 or many generations ago, you can do a LOT with not much money, since all the other guys are always upgrading. My screen and wiring are all that was bought new. Everything else was used, thrift store, refurb, yardsale, trashpicked, curbside pickup, etc. I have a 1080p 135" theater with an automatic screen, ceiling mounted projector, more clean power for sensitive speakers than I need/use, gear in 19" rack, and one remote that controls it all. Commercial movies theaters have less immersion and weaker bass than we experience every night in our own home. I know some guys who have spent more on "small" TVs then I have in the whole theater. It may be "slumming it" but the bang for the buck is outstanding. 

I've spent $1800 so far:
epson 3600e used, facebook
mustang 135" power new
denon x2400h used, ebay
klispch KG 5.5 mains yardsale
Pioneer csg303 suround handmedown
2x DCM kx12 as passive subs free CL curbside pickup
denon AVR890 as sub amp goodwill auction (since "subs" are full range, can use autosetup for distance and per channel EQ prior to primary Audyssey run)
roku ultra refurb, amazon
logitech harmony companion remote refurb, amazon
2 post gear rack free, scrap from work
12/4 CL2 wiring new, monoprice

The KG5.5s get down to 35hz in my room, and the DCMs as "subs" get down to 25hz. Ran in LFE +Mains the audible range is almost covered, I am looking at a BOSS platform driven by an old AVR for the infrasonic (my theater is large and on a concrete slab).


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## genaccmiller

My theater pictures are below. It was an Acoustically Transparent (AT) build with a 120 inch diagonal 16:9 screen. Things I would have done different are:

Equipment choice
1. JBL studio 590s are awesome but very difficult to lift and take behind the AT screen. I could have explored a smaller speaker choice.
2. The Klipsch sub is underpowered compared to the JBLs. I could have gone with better subs

Room treatment
1. The wall behind the speakers is not Acoustically treated. I feel the current sound is awesome with treatments on the side and back wall. Give the small area to go behind the screen it's very difficult to treat it at this time. I could have done this before putting the AT screen up

Seating
1. I ordered the semicircle configuration for theater seating. Given the room width a straight set of 4 chairs would have been more space saving.

Construction method
1. I did not use the Minimalist approach but rather the more traditional way of construction. While attaching the bottom and top panels which I wrapped with triple black velvet I could have friction fit them instead of connecting them to the back frame using screws. The reason is that the velvet is starting to become loose and show some wrinkles when closely noticed but it's very difficult to go behind the screen to loosen the screws to take it out

Room color
1. I used a red walls and black ceiling color combination. The red was very difficult to apply and needed multiple coats. I could have possibly explored a gray walls color combination









Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


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## hurt33

I'm not finished since I'm completing my entire basement, but I would have started a build thread. A lot of people on here are so helpful. I regret not taking advantage of that. 
And I would wait to buy equipment until at least near completion. My receiver is almost 6 years old and I just took it out the box a month ago. Now I need a receiver with Atmos capability.


----------



## Hyper_Eye

I ran a new circuit to my riser position before I started my build. I left bare wire coming out of the bottom of the wall. One wire was from the panel and the other was from a switch on the wall. Then when I got the initial outside frame built I brought that wire in through a hole and I installed two junction boxes there (one for step lights and one for outlets.) Once enough of the framing and joists were in place to run the wiring I tapped in at the junction boxes and ran the wires to position in a daisy chain. I then connected a line from the outlet's junction box to the light junction box to send power into the line that traveled to the switch on the wall.



I have only completed the build in the last couple of weeks but I have already realized the mistake that I made here. Having those junction boxes there was fine but I should have put the connecting junctions in the drop ceiling. Now the only way I can change how power comes into the lights is to partially dismantle one side of the riser. As long as I don't want to change it this will be fine. It will be real pain if I decide I want to do something like add a three way switch. It was just a dopey thing to do that I should have considered. If I could start the build over that's what I would change.


----------



## b_scott

genaccmiller said:


> My theater pictures are below. It was an Acoustically Transparent (AT) build with a 120 inch diagonal 16:9 screen. Things I would have done different are:
> 
> Seating
> 1. I ordered the semicircle configuration for theater seating. Given the room width a straight set of 4 chairs would have been more space saving.
> 
> Construction method
> 1. I did not use the Minimalist approach but rather the more traditional way of construction. While attaching the bottom and top panels which I wrapped with triple black velvet I could have friction fit them instead of connecting them to the back frame using screws. The reason is that the velvet is starting to become loose and show some wrinkles when closely noticed but it's very difficult to go behind the screen to loosen the screws to take it out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


how do you like the Lagoon chairs? I appreciate the note on the space. I was thinking a OVOOVO setup but now I'm thinking O|OO|O

Also, what do you mean by friction fit?


----------



## genaccmiller

b_scott said:


> how do you like the Lagoon chairs? I appreciate the note on the space. I was thinking a OVOOVO setup but now I'm thinking O|OO|O
> 
> 
> 
> Also, what do you mean by friction fit?


By friction fit I mean instead of using screws to hold the panel to the backbone frame just slide it in to be in place and held tightly between the screen above and the floor below. The fusion chairs are pretty good so far.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


----------



## b_scott

genaccmiller said:


> By friction fit I mean instead of using screws to hold the panel to the backbone frame just slide it in to be in place and held tightly between the screen above and the floor below. The fusion chairs are pretty good so far.
> 
> Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


Gotcha. I guess you would've had to get behind the wall and screw down the bottom boards tight to the fabric initially.


----------



## genaccmiller

b_scott said:


> Gotcha. I guess you would've had to get behind the wall and screw down the bottom boards tight to the fabric initially.


This video will show you the sequence of what I did. In the Minimalist design they would not screw down the side panels to the back frame.






Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


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## b_scott

thanks!


random question that I don't think needs its own thread - I'm building a box for my projector which will be flush with my back wall. I'll be running the wires in from the back/bottom of the box and I want to seal the hole up as much as possible - not permanently, I just want a pretty good air seal. I was trying to find something like a rubber hole stopper with room for wires in the middle of it that closes up on the wires. 

Anyone know of anything like this?


----------



## AppsDeacs

Maybe search for rubber wire grommet. Might be what you're looking for. Used a lot in desk tops.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Caulk?
Used just about anywhere. 
Michael


----------



## b_scott

LastButNotLeast said:


> Caulk?
> Used just about anywhere.
> Michael


lol. but not permanent. I'd want it to be loose enough that I could pull the projector out and disconnect the wires if needed.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

I've never had trouble removing old caulk.
Michael


----------



## b_scott

AppsDeacs said:


> Maybe search for rubber wire grommet. Might be what you're looking for. Used a lot in desk tops.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Good call. This might work:

https://www.amazon.com/Rig-Rite-Man...en_browse-bin:5485668011&s=industrial&sr=1-22

or these

https://www.amazon.com/ANZESER-2-3-...JH713KKXVXN&psc=1&refRID=6CB8PME86JH713KKXVXN

I guess I could always electrical tape the other side and pull off the tape when needed.


----------



## genaccmiller

b_scott said:


> Good call. This might work:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Rig-Rite-Man...en_browse-bin:5485668011&s=industrial&sr=1-22
> 
> 
> 
> or these
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/ANZESER-2-3-...JH713KKXVXN&psc=1&refRID=6CB8PME86JH713KKXVXN
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I could always electrical tape the other side and pull off the tape when needed.


I would go with the second one as you need flexibility to feed multiple wires.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk


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## MilesBFree

Ton of great advice here, so here is a smaller thing I can add / something I did right: I made the recessed box for the projector wide enough to accommodate either the kind that has the lens in the center or one with it offset, so the projector can be moved side to side to center the lens. 

Also, the projectors have published specs on how much space above, behind, and to the sides that is needed for airflow. IIRC the Panasonic one I have used more of a volume approach, where the walls of the box could be a bit closer on one side if they were farther away on the others.


----------



## MilesBFree

b_scott said:


> random question that I don't think needs its own thread - I'm building a box for my projector which will be flush with my back wall. I'll be running the wires in from the back/bottom of the box and I want to seal the hole up as much as possible - not permanently, I just want a pretty good air seal. I was trying to find something like a rubber hole stopper with room for wires in the middle of it that closes up on the wires.
> 
> Anyone know of anything like this?


The lights that go in swimming pools have exactly that, and it obviously needs to be waterproof. Those are 2 parts - a rubber stopper plus a strip of almost putty-like tape that deforms and sticks in the small openings in the rubber stopper. 

Also, you could use automotive dum dum seal. This is used to stick windows into older cars and is more or less the same kind of thing as the tape the pool builders use. 

Something like these: 



Amazon.com : dum dum putty


----------



## miltimj

MilesBFree said:


> Ton of great advice here, so here is a smaller thing I can add / something I did right: I made the recessed box for the projector wide enough to accommodate either the kind that has the lens in the center or one with it offset, so the projector can be moved side to side to center the lens.
> 
> Also, the projectors have published specs on how much space above, behind, and to the sides that is needed for airflow. IIRC the Panasonic one I have used more of a volume approach, where the walls of the box could be a bit closer on one side if they were farther away on the others.


Doesn't your projector have lens shift? Most should be able to adjust at least a couple feet in every direction from center.


----------



## b_scott

MilesBFree said:


> The lights that go in swimming pools have exactly that, and it obviously needs to be waterproof. Those are 2 parts - a rubber stopper plus a strip of almost putty-like tape that deforms and sticks in the small openings in the rubber stopper.
> 
> Also, you could use automotive dum dum seal. This is used to stick windows into older cars and is more or less the same kind of thing as the tape the pool builders use.
> 
> Something like these:
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com : dum dum putty


Thank you for the reply. I ended up need to cut a fan into the box so the hole plugging has become moot - but that's a great idea for others.


----------



## MilesBFree

miltimj said:


> Doesn't your projector have lens shift? Most should be able to adjust at least a couple feet in every direction from center.


Yes, but the less bending of light the better


----------



## bass addict

hurt33 said:


> I'm not finished since I'm completing my entire basement, but I would have started a build thread. A lot of people on here are so helpful. I regret not taking advantage of that.
> And I would wait to buy equipment until at least near completion. My receiver is almost 6 years old and I just took it out the box a month ago. Now I need a receiver with Atmos capability.


Oh my gosh that is funny. I thought I was the only one. I bought and sold 2 bnib projectors and a receiver due to this. I'm currently running a yammie 3050 i just unboxed a month ago as it wasn't worth selling. :d


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## jwprendergast

Im still in the MEP phase of my theater, but wish I would have put a level on the floor where I wanted the double door to go. Its' 1" out of level from one side to the other. Hindsight, I might have put it in the back of the room.


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## Phil of Sydney

I just read the 1182 posts in this thread

Learnt a lot and lots more to learn.
Run conduit and if in doubt run another conduit.
Consider HVAC.
Differences between keeping sound out or in and managing the sound within the room can be as complex as I want to make it. However there are basic principles that apply.
For me it's a new build so drywall will be done by someone who should know what they are doing.
Make use of the space under the riser to help manage the sound.

I have a square room 4.5m x 4.5m x 3.1m high. Square is less than ideal but 8:5 ratio with the front speakers and equilateral triangles and some sound treatment will be a starting point.

I'm in Sydney, AUS so the suppliers may be different but the principles are universal. However not many basements in Sydney.


----------



## pkinneb

Phil of Sydney said:


> I just read the 1182 posts in this thread
> 
> Learnt a lot and lots more to learn.
> Run conduit and if in doubt run another conduit.
> Consider HVAC.
> Differences between keeping sound out or in and managing the sound within the room can be as complex as I want to make it. However there are basic principles that apply.
> For me it's a new build so drywall will be done by someone who should know what they are doing.
> Make use of the space under the riser to help manage the sound.
> 
> I have a square room 4.5m x 4.5m x 3.1m high. Square is less than ideal but 8:5 ratio with the front speakers and equilateral triangles and some sound treatment will be a starting point.
> 
> I'm in Sydney, AUS so the suppliers may be different but the principles are universal. However not many basements in Sydney.


I look forward to following your build. The only caution I would make is if you implement soundproofing e.g. clips and channel don't assume your drywaller will know what they are doing


----------



## nickbuol

Phil of Sydney said:


> I just read the 1182 posts in this thread
> 
> Learnt a lot and lots more to learn.
> Run conduit and if in doubt run another conduit.
> Consider HVAC.
> Differences between keeping sound out or in and managing the sound within the room can be as complex as I want to make it. However there are basic principles that apply.
> For me it's a new build so drywall will be done by someone who should know what they are doing.
> Make use of the space under the riser to help manage the sound.
> 
> I have a square room 4.5m x 4.5m x 3.1m high. Square is less than ideal but 8:5 ratio with the front speakers and equilateral triangles and some sound treatment will be a starting point.
> 
> I'm in Sydney, AUS so the suppliers may be different but the principles are universal. However not many basements in Sydney.





pkinneb said:


> I look forward to following your build. The only caution I would make is if you implement soundproofing e.g. clips and channel don't assume your drywaller will know what they are doing


I agree with @pkinneb that most drywallers have no real clue about how to do it right for any sort of soundproofing. Just be sure that they do. If they are doing some sort of decoupling, adding mass, etc, then they don't know. Also, just telling someone that you want clips and channel doesn't mean that they won't screw that up too and drive screws right into the wood studs, completely missing the channel, and thus compromising the decoupling.


----------



## Bäsemödel

Now that im a few months out from the "completion" of my room ( a great joke i know ), I think i should have just tried to go to a projector and screen from the beginning... i have 65" plasma which i have really enjoyed over the years but I think I should have at least provisioned for a projector in the future w HDMI cabling and power to a projector area. I think the same could be said for atmos... as much i question if my ceiling height (6'10") will make it a counterproductive endeavor, I think it would have been wise to at lease run the speaker cable for it.

The other thing I should have done from the jump was hang my side and rears lower... Ive since had to go back and move them lower to integrate better in the room... the tweeters are now exactly 2' above listening position and it sounds much better...

I'm happy with the treatment in the room and the room is naturally isolated from the rest of the house quite well so full on soundproofing wasnt mission critical. I suppose if I had the funds I would have done rockwool in the ceiling/floor joist bays but I got a great deal of new R13 insulation for free so I just doubled that up in the bays...


----------



## Erod

I wouldn't have entry doors in the rear corners. Can't do 4 subwoofers.


----------



## mtbdudex

Phil of Sydney said:


> I just read the 1182 posts in this thread
> 
> Learnt a lot and lots more to learn.
> Run conduit and if in doubt run another conduit.
> Consider HVAC.
> Differences between keeping sound out or in and managing the sound within the room can be as complex as I want to make it. However there are basic principles that apply.
> For me it's a new build so drywall will be done by someone who should know what they are doing.
> Make use of the space under the riser to help manage the sound.
> 
> I have a square room 4.5m x 4.5m x 3.1m high. Square is less than ideal but 8:5 ratio with the front speakers and equilateral triangles and some sound treatment will be a starting point.
> 
> I'm in Sydney, AUS so the suppliers may be different but the principles are universal. However not many basements in Sydney.


I’d suggest you buy “Home Recording Studio’s, build it like the pros”, yea, it’s priceless for the money. Ron does a great job .
learn and follow its construction techniques ....
In room Acoustics is a rabbit hole ... I’m 11 years into it now.
Top 2 books are must for that.











Sent from my iPhone 11Pro using Tapatalk


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## ValoHannu

I would install the speakers & projector last. In the middle of the build, and 80% of the little time I have to build the theater is spent watching movies & sports with my jaw on the floor.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

mtbdudex said:


>


Ethan Winer's ("The Audio Expert") company has a helpful website:


RealTraps - Acoustics Articles


----------



## clausdk

I am about to do my theater 2.0 rebuild.

Can anyone recommend a luxury home theater company that can help with the final design but also supply very detailed construction plans for my contractor?

I was in a bit of a rush on version 1.0 but now it's time to do it "proper"


----------



## LeBon

I recommend Erskine-Group.com.


----------



## idratherbeflying

clausdk said:


> I am about to do my theater 2.0 rebuild.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a luxury home theater company that can help with the final design but also supply very detailed construction plans for my contractor?
> 
> I was in a bit of a rush on version 1.0 but now it's time to do it "proper"


I'd second LeBon's suggestion for Erskine's company and would also add Keith Yates Design (Homepage - Keith Yates Design) who offers three tiers of increasingly comprehensive (and expensive) packages depending on your needs. Too bad some of the AVS legends like BIGmouthinDC retired; such great work.

Could also have GIK Acoustics (Acoustic Panels | Bass Traps | Sound Diffusers - GIK Acoustics) look over your room for the acoustic treatment/design portion. I believe BPape (Bryan Pape) still works for them and has been a great forum contributor over the years thanks to his experience and training in the field.


----------



## OJ Bartley

I just came across my first noteworthy "oops" this past weekend. As much as I tried to plan for upgradeability, I should have planned even harder! Lol. I pre-wired for subs in each rear corner, as well as separate runs for tactile transducers at the seating locations. I know I won't really have room for subs, because I'm wall to wall seats in my little room, but I thought it would be an easy thing to do just in case. So over the weekend I finally caved and hauled the front HTM-12s down to test with the new receiver and all the in-wall speakers. Everything actually sounded great, especially for a quick setup with absolutely no tweaks to the AVR or room treatment so that was good news. But then when I moved the sub to the back of the room to get the space back for my son and my temporary work from home desk, I noticed it was picking up some hum. I wish I had run some shielded cable for those sub and TT runs. It's not bad with lowered gain, but still there. I'll see what I can do about it someday when I do set up those channels, but it would have been smarter to deal with preemptively.


----------



## AndreNewman

I wouldn't buy timber from DIY places, only proper builders merchants :-(

All the timber I bought for making bass traps and similar stuff from the proper merchants is great, straight, very few knots, dimensions are what they say.

The extras I got from the local DIY place because I ran out of something, it didn't quite fit, I changed the design etc. are knotty, subtly twisted and not really the right dimensions. Even though I chose the best bits on the shelf, the bits that were straight are not straight any more after a few months in my garage, the timber merchants stuff has been in the garage for nearly a year (ok I got delayed) and is still straight and true.

Timber merchants are also about 1/4 the price.


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## PixelPusher15

Ummm, what I’d do differently.... read this thread.


----------



## jwprendergast

This is an old thread but such a valuable one. Im currently still finishing my theater (80% done) but will echo something ive heard in this thread: dont expect the next stage to cover up deficiencies from the former one. 

Also, having a fully vetted out set of plans would be very beneficial. I drew out 60% (ish) and have been shooting from the hip. While Im used to this, it would have been nice to have all the details worked out prior. 

Our basement floor is out of level; so much so that theres a 1" elevation difference from one side of our double door to the other. Had I actually measured for that, I might have put the door in another location, saving myself a lot of past and future problems.


----------



## friskygeek

Just starting on my custom home theater project in a spare 14x20ft room in the basement and I just spent the last few days going over this thread. Extremely valuable! Will be posting my questions in various forums as I go along... Thank you to all that contributed here.


----------



## squared80

friskygeek said:


> Just starting on my custom home theater project in a spare 14x20ft room in the basement and I just spent the last few days going over this thread. Extremely valuable! Will be posting my questions in various forums as I go along... Thank you to all that contributed here.


Welcome to the rabbit hole. I was looking for tips, too. Now I've completely redone my entire plans multiple times. And spent a lot more money. For some, what they would do different is to have never visited AVS Forums.


----------



## friskygeek

squared80 said:


> Welcome to the rabbit hole. I was looking for tips, too. Now I've completely redone my entire plans multiple times. And spent a lot more money. For some, what they would do different is to have never visited AVS Forums.


Ive already added a baffle wall to my plans based on all the feedback on this forum haha! Lots more changes to come Im sure. 

f.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

If you're putting up blackout shades, do an *outside* mount. It will ruin your chances of being in Architectural Digest, but it will work much better.
Michael


----------



## Musty Hustla

Try an ALR screen so I can watch movies with the lights at 100%
Next time I would try to hide my subs or use them functionally as an end table or behind my coach.
DIY subs take some skill and patience to look nice, but the industrial ID look is easy to pull off. Ugly or pretty, they can sound great.
While nice to put movie toys, gigantic subs are not always fun to see. 
Low tuned subs are fun but hoverboss and good mid-bass are better.


----------



## da1duc

First one for me:




da1duc said:


> When making light boxes (or any other backer box), make sure you test that the LED transformer fits through hole in *2 layers *of 5/8 drywall not just one layer *before *you build 40 boxes for the basement.
> 
> Thankfully the fix is to add a layer of wood trim around, but UGH!!!!


----------



## ItsNate

da1duc said:


> First one for me:


I had the same issue, but I caught it before I put up the first sheets. My solution was to cut the first layer's hole a bit oblong and the final layer the normal circle. I also had to notch out areas for the tabs since several of my lights ended up partially underneath the joists. It made my boxes complicated.


----------



## EdgarQ

Next time, I will remember to visit this forum first and plan everything I need to do, in order to establish an accurate budget. Instead I came here after I had already gotten started. While I didn't take any steps I regret, I certainly could have had a clearer picture of the scope and cost ahead of time. I think I've gone about $2K over budget on blackening and acoustic treatment, and still going.


----------



## RemixMark

EdgarQ said:


> Next time, I will remember to visit this forum first and plan everything I need to do, in order to establish an accurate budget. Instead I came here after I had already gotten started. While I didn't take any steps I regret, I certainly could have had a clearer picture of the scope and cost ahead of time. I think I've gone about $2K over budget on blackening and acoustic treatment, and still going.


Can you explain more about “blackening the acoustic treatment” and how you’d avoid this in the future?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## squared80

RemixMark said:


> Can you explain more about “blackening the acoustic treatment” and how you’d avoid this in the future?


Blackening _and _acoustic treatment. Lots of threads on these, but he's talking about colors and materials to black out the room and avoid reflections, and obviously acoustical treatments for the room, which are one of the most overlooked but important aspects to how good your room can sound.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Though it is a good idea to have black acoustic treatments, too.
 
Michael


----------



## EdgarQ

squared80 said:


> Blackening _and _acoustic treatment. Lots of threads on these, but he's talking about colors and materials to black out the room and avoid reflections, and obviously acoustical treatments for the room, which are one of the most overlooked but important aspects to how good your room can sound.


Exactly. The thread titled The Blacker the Theater, the Better the Image helps explain and address the washed out look you get with a projector in a room with reflective surfaces like a white ceiling. Even for otherwise light controlled rooms, your projector itself is a giant light source. Also the thread titled Acoustical Treatments Master Thread helps explain and address the muffled dialogue and dullness of sounds that should be sharp due to the echo and reverb from your speakers off the walls and ceiling.


----------



## EdgarQ

LastButNotLeast said:


> Though it is a good idea to have black acoustic treatments, too.
> 
> Michael


Hah! Mine are indeed black, covered in the velvet recommended in the Blacker Theater thread! Not mutually exclusive.


----------



## PixelPusher15

I thought of this during construction but didn’t think I’d actually use it because of AirPlay but dang, I wish I had an HDMI input to my system by my seating. Not only that but also a 3.5mm jack for running the calibration mic. All my equipment is in another room and I thought I’d only need to run an extension cable for the mic a couple times to calibrate. But now I’m tinkering here and there, got REW and a Umik-1 and it’s just a pain. Still don’t know how I’m going to run an HDMI to my receiver to the other room.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Too bad you missed this:








Insane Deals of Fiber Optic HDMI Cables..330 FEET for...


Ok, was looking over amazon for a nice 15 ft fiber cable to run to my JVC and came across the following. I have ZERO affiliation with the seller. I just found these prices to be insane. The only reason I would even post this is because they are fulfilled by Amazon so there is next to zero chance...




www.avsforum.com




I found this, not too bad:








Amazon.com: PowerBear 4K HDMI Cable 50 ft | High Speed, Braided Nylon & Gold Connectors, 4K @ 60Hz, Ultra HD, 2K, 1080P, ARC & CL3 Rated | for Laptop, Monitor, PS5, PS4, Xbox One, Fire TV, Apple TV & More : Electronics


Amazon.com: PowerBear 4K HDMI Cable 50 ft | High Speed, Braided Nylon & Gold Connectors, 4K @ 60Hz, Ultra HD, 2K, 1080P, ARC & CL3 Rated | for Laptop, Monitor, PS5, PS4, Xbox One, Fire TV, Apple TV & More : Electronics



www.amazon.com




Fortunately, you're only generating test tones, so the quality of the cable is not too critical.
Michael


----------



## PixelPusher15

LastButNotLeast said:


> Too bad you missed this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Insane Deals of Fiber Optic HDMI Cables..330 FEET for...
> 
> 
> Ok, was looking over amazon for a nice 15 ft fiber cable to run to my JVC and came across the following. I have ZERO affiliation with the seller. I just found these prices to be insane. The only reason I would even post this is because they are fulfilled by Amazon so there is next to zero chance...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this, not too bad:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: PowerBear 4K HDMI Cable 50 ft | High Speed, Braided Nylon & Gold Connectors, 4K @ 60Hz, Ultra HD, 2K, 1080P, ARC & CL3 Rated | for Laptop, Monitor, PS5, PS4, Xbox One, Fire TV, Apple TV & More : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: PowerBear 4K HDMI Cable 50 ft | High Speed, Braided Nylon & Gold Connectors, 4K @ 60Hz, Ultra HD, 2K, 1080P, ARC & CL3 Rated | for Laptop, Monitor, PS5, PS4, Xbox One, Fire TV, Apple TV & More : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fortunately, you're only generating test tones, so the quality of the cable is not too critical.
> Michael


Haha! I remember reading that thread back when it popped up. I thought "that's neat, too bad I don't have a need for 330ft of HDMI" I actually considered the 66ft ones as a just in case purchase....too bad lol.

But yeah, grabbing a cheap 1080p capable HDMI cable is probably the best bet. Looks like I can go open box for under $20.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

66 feet is the one I got ($10). Used it for a few minutes to make sure it works. It does (did).
Whether I need it ever again and if it will still work at that time remains to be seen.
Michael


----------



## EdgarQ

The first time I posted in this thread, my next time note was to read this thread. But in spending more time in this thread and others, I have a bigger item to add. It’s trying harder to make an AT screen work in my setup. 

My current space involved updating an existing small theater. My priorities were bang for the buck, retaining the Art Deco mahogany aesthetics, maximizing immersion in a small space, and simplicity over complexity. Working out space behind the screen for speakers and hanging the screen a couple of feet into the room was proving complex, and shrinking the already short viewing area. So I ruled that out, at least in Phase 1.

In the meantime, I’ve done the best I can to angle the speakers to the seats, but it’s not the same thing. I mentioned this to my daughter, and she says it does work and does sound exactly like a movie theater. She’s usually very critical and particular, and the closest person to brutal objectivity who has been in the home theater, but at the same time doesn’t have as many years focused on what combination of design and tech produces what effect in an A/V system. 

I may change my mind on this, but for now my handyman energy bar needs to recharge. And then focus on a home security system. But maybe Phase 2 happens when I’m less exhausted, and a new cleaner AT solution pops into my head, or I read something brilliant here!


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Start a build thread and ask questions there. You'll get lots of input.
Michael


----------



## dhahlen

ItsNate said:


> I had the same issue, but I caught it before I put up the first sheets. My solution was to cut the first layer's hole a bit oblong and the final layer the normal circle. I also had to notch out areas for the tabs since several of my lights ended up partially underneath the joists. It made my boxes complicated.
> View attachment 3127554


I ran into the same with my Revel C763L - I built some boxes. Screen isn't going on the wall, it was marked out just for visual representation. It'll be 3 feet closer and on a false wall.


----------



## jdanforth

What would I do differently next time? Not bother wasting the time, money, and energy. That’s what.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

So you would do what instead? Nothing? What did you learn from THIS waste of time, money and energy (so someone else doesn't make the same mistakes)? Aren't you happy with your theater/re?
Michael


----------



## Audixium

LastButNotLeast said:


> So you would do what instead? Nothing? What did you learn from THIS waste of time, money and energy (so someone else doesn't make the same mistakes)? Aren't you happy with your theater/re?
> Michael


I'll answer from my perspective...pay someone else for design & build. Sure I learned all sorts of stuff on my journey, but I won't do any DIY with my second theater. Sold all of my tools intentionally so I can't just default to DIY.

Biggest gripe - designing, measuring, cutting, assembling, beveling, checking friction fit, stretch wrapping & stapling GOM, checking for friction fit, rinse and repeat...*37 times*. Worst use of my time over the past decade.

However, with my firsthand experience I can definitely provide better guidance to my next contractor. I just have to open the checkbook.

I love my space and will enjoy the heck out of it for the next 45 days until we move. But never again for me...what are the current theater designer options that the forum favors?


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Plenty of ideas and references here:








Search results







www.avsforum.com




Michael


----------



## squared80

Audixium said:


> I'll answer from my perspective...pay someone else for design & build. Sure I learned all sorts of stuff on my journey, but I won't do any DIY with my second theater. Sold all of my tools intentionally so I can't just default to DIY.
> 
> Biggest gripe - designing, measuring, cutting, assembling, beveling, checking friction fit, stretch wrapping & stapling GOM, checking for friction fit, rinse and repeat...*37 times*. Worst use of my time over the past decade.
> 
> However, with my firsthand experience I can definitely provide better guidance to my next contractor. I just have to open the checkbook.
> 
> I love my space and will enjoy the heck out of it for the next 45 days until we move. But never again for me...what are the current theater designer options that the forum favors?


I think most (definitely not all) people are in the DIY camp for cost purposes. It takes time and effort, but you can save literally tens of thousands of dollars. To be honest, if I had the discretionary income, I'd pay a professional to do it. At least now, thanks to so many experts and professionals on these forums, I know what to look for when shopping around for something.


----------



## A97syclone

I see a lot of suggestions to run conduit for all the wire runs, but no pictures or "how to" for it.
Are there any good threads on conduit or links that would be helpful here?

Specific questions that I'm curious about are:
1. How do you terminate the conduit to the area where the speakers are to prevent sound escape and how to secure them to prevent rattling?
2. 2 inch conduit is recommended, but it seems like it would leave a small amount of wood left on the headers after drilling. Is there a "code" for how big of holes can be cut?
3. How do you make 11-20 2" conduits look decent coming into the equipment room/closet and what's the best way to label them?


----------



## mhutchins

A97syclone said:


> I see a lot of suggestions to run conduit for all the wire runs, but no pictures or "how to" for it.
> Are there any good threads on conduit or links that would be helpful here?
> 
> Specific questions that I'm curious about are:
> 1. How do you terminate the conduit to the area where the speakers are to prevent sound escape and how to secure them to prevent rattling?
> 2. 2 inch conduit is recommended, but it seems like it would leave a small amount of wood left on the headers after drilling. Is there a "code" for how big of holes can be cut?
> 3. How do you make 11-20 2" conduits look decent coming into the equipment room/closet and what's the best way to label them?


1. Drill the penetrations slightly oversize to ensure the conduit does not touch any part of the hole. Completely fill the gap with acoustical caulk to form an air-tight seal. After running your wires, pack the open end of the conduit with insulation to minimize sound transmission through the conduit.​​2A. Generally, 2" conduit isn't necessary for most runs unless you have a very large bundle of wires. Even then, you might want to consider dividing the bundle into several smaller groups and run several runs of smaller conduit. Typically, the largest conduit is needed for the HDMI cable between your AVR and your projector / TV.​​2B. *R602.2.3 [IRC 602.6] Drilling and Notching—Studs*​Drilling and notching of studs shall be in accordance with the following: Notching. Any stud in an exterior wall or bearing partition may be cut or notched to a depth not exceeding 25 percent of its width. Studs in nonbearing partitions may be notched to a depth not to exceed 40 percent of a single stud width.​​Any stud may be bored or drilled, provided that the diameter of the resulting hole is no more than 60 percent of the stud width, the edge of the hole is no more than 5/8 inch (16 mm) to the edge of the stud, and the hole is not located in the same section as a cut or notch. Studs located in exterior walls or bearing partitions drilled over 40 percent and up to 60 percent shall also be doubled with no more than two successive doubled studs bored. See Figures R602.2.3(1) and R602.2.3(2) [IRC Figures R602.6(1) and R602.6(2)].​*Exception: *Use of approved stud shoes is permitted when they are installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.​








*FIGURE R602.2.3(1) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(1)]
NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR EXTERIOR WALLS AND BEARING WALLS*​








*FIGURE R602.2.3(2) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(2)]
NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR INTERIOR NONBEARING WALLS*​

*R602.2.3.1 [IRC R602_6_1] Drilling and Notching of Top Plate*
When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie not less than 0.054 inch thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 11/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than eight 10d (0.148 inch diameter) having a minimum length of 11/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. The metal tie must extend a minimum of 6 inches past the opening. See Figure R602.2.3.1 [IRC Figure R602.6.1].
*Exception:* When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.









*FIGURE R602.2.3.1 [IRC FIGURE R602.6.1]
TOP PLATE FRAMING TO ACCOMMODATE PIPING*​

3. The main thing from an appearance standpoint is to keep the conduit straight, plumb, and evenly spaced. Many electricians will use a slotted strut with clamps to secure the conduit to a surface or suspend it from overhead (see image below). Labelling can be accomplished with a Brother P-touch label maker. I like this model because it will accept the larger, 1" wide tapes. For conduit, I would recommend the tapes with extra strength adhesive. There are also models that will accept heat shrink tubing for labelling wires and cables.​​​


----------



## A97syclone

mhutchins said:


> 1. Drill the penetrations slightly oversize to ensure the conduit does not touch any part of the hole. Completely fill the gap with acoustical caulk to form an air-tight seal. After running your wires, pack the open end of the conduit with insulation to minimize sound transmission through the conduit.​​2A. Generally, 2" conduit isn't necessary for most runs unless you have a very large bundle of wires. Even then, you might want to consider dividing the bundle into several smaller groups and run several runs of smaller conduit. Typically, the largest conduit is needed for the HDMI cable between your AVR and your projector / TV.​​2B. *R602.2.3 [IRC 602.6] Drilling and Notching—Studs*​Drilling and notching of studs shall be in accordance with the following: Notching. Any stud in an exterior wall or bearing partition may be cut or notched to a depth not exceeding 25 percent of its width. Studs in nonbearing partitions may be notched to a depth not to exceed 40 percent of a single stud width.​​Any stud may be bored or drilled, provided that the diameter of the resulting hole is no more than 60 percent of the stud width, the edge of the hole is no more than 5/8 inch (16 mm) to the edge of the stud, and the hole is not located in the same section as a cut or notch. Studs located in exterior walls or bearing partitions drilled over 40 percent and up to 60 percent shall also be doubled with no more than two successive doubled studs bored. See Figures R602.2.3(1) and R602.2.3(2) [IRC Figures R602.6(1) and R602.6(2)].​*Exception: *Use of approved stud shoes is permitted when they are installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3(1) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(1)]
> NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR EXTERIOR WALLS AND BEARING WALLS*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3(2) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(2)]
> NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR INTERIOR NONBEARING WALLS*​
> 
> *R602.2.3.1 [IRC R602_6_1] Drilling and Notching of Top Plate*
> When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie not less than 0.054 inch thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 11/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than eight 10d (0.148 inch diameter) having a minimum length of 11/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. The metal tie must extend a minimum of 6 inches past the opening. See Figure R602.2.3.1 [IRC Figure R602.6.1].
> *Exception:* When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3.1 [IRC FIGURE R602.6.1]
> TOP PLATE FRAMING TO ACCOMMODATE PIPING*​
> 
> 3. The main thing from an appearance standpoint is to keep the conduit straight, plumb, and evenly spaced. Many electricians will use a slotted strut with clamps to secure the conduit to a surface or suspend it from overhead (see image below). Labelling can be accomplished with a Brother P-touch label maker. I like this model because it will accept the larger, 1" wide tapes. For conduit, I would recommend the tapes with extra strength adhesive. There are also models that will accept heat shrink tubing for labelling wires and cables.​​​
> View attachment 3212192


Awesome post! This helps a lot, thank you


----------



## steebo777

mhutchins said:


> 1. Drill the penetrations slightly oversize to ensure the conduit does not touch any part of the hole. Completely fill the gap with acoustical caulk to form an air-tight seal. After running your wires, pack the open end of the conduit with insulation to minimize sound transmission through the conduit.​​2A. Generally, 2" conduit isn't necessary for most runs unless you have a very large bundle of wires. Even then, you might want to consider dividing the bundle into several smaller groups and run several runs of smaller conduit. Typically, the largest conduit is needed for the HDMI cable between your AVR and your projector / TV.​​2B. *R602.2.3 [IRC 602.6] Drilling and Notching—Studs*​Drilling and notching of studs shall be in accordance with the following: Notching. Any stud in an exterior wall or bearing partition may be cut or notched to a depth not exceeding 25 percent of its width. Studs in nonbearing partitions may be notched to a depth not to exceed 40 percent of a single stud width.​​Any stud may be bored or drilled, provided that the diameter of the resulting hole is no more than 60 percent of the stud width, the edge of the hole is no more than 5/8 inch (16 mm) to the edge of the stud, and the hole is not located in the same section as a cut or notch. Studs located in exterior walls or bearing partitions drilled over 40 percent and up to 60 percent shall also be doubled with no more than two successive doubled studs bored. See Figures R602.2.3(1) and R602.2.3(2) [IRC Figures R602.6(1) and R602.6(2)].​*Exception: *Use of approved stud shoes is permitted when they are installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3(1) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(1)]
> NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR EXTERIOR WALLS AND BEARING WALLS*​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3(2) [IRC FIGURE R602.6(2)]
> NOTCHING AND BORED HOLE LIMITATIONS FOR INTERIOR NONBEARING WALLS*​
> 
> *R602.2.3.1 [IRC R602_6_1] Drilling and Notching of Top Plate*
> When piping or ductwork is placed in or partly in an exterior wall or interior load-bearing wall, necessitating cutting, drilling or notching of the top plate by more than 50 percent of its width, a galvanized metal tie not less than 0.054 inch thick (1.37 mm) (16 ga) and 11/2 inches (38 mm) wide shall be fastened across and to the plate at each side of the opening with not less than eight 10d (0.148 inch diameter) having a minimum length of 11/2 inches (38 mm) at each side or equivalent. The metal tie must extend a minimum of 6 inches past the opening. See Figure R602.2.3.1 [IRC Figure R602.6.1].
> *Exception:* When the entire side of the wall with the notch or cut is covered by wood structural panel sheathing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *FIGURE R602.2.3.1 [IRC FIGURE R602.6.1]
> TOP PLATE FRAMING TO ACCOMMODATE PIPING*​
> 
> 3. The main thing from an appearance standpoint is to keep the conduit straight, plumb, and evenly spaced. Many electricians will use a slotted strut with clamps to secure the conduit to a surface or suspend it from overhead (see image below). Labelling can be accomplished with a Brother P-touch label maker. I like this model because it will accept the larger, 1" wide tapes. For conduit, I would recommend the tapes with extra strength adhesive. There are also models that will accept heat shrink tubing for labelling wires and cables.​​​
> View attachment 3212192


I'd love to see if you @mhutchins* (*or anyone else here) has pics of #3 in an actual AV rack room. Having either a PVC chase or Smurf tubing is probably the main takeaway from the entire thread I have for 'futureproofing'. Sound management is a close second on this entire thread for sure.


----------



## mhutchins

Well, here is how commercial jobs run conduit:


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Not a lot of WAF in that set up, though.
 
Michael


----------



## frankwp

mhutchins said:


> Well, here is how commercial jobs run conduit:


That's some very nice pipe work.


----------



## HTDIYGUY

Here are the 10 things I learned not to do on my first HT attempt

10 Home Theater mistakes to avoid


----------



## puntloos

HTDIYGUY said:


> Here are the 10 things I learned not to do on my first HT attempt
> 
> 10 Home Theater mistakes to avoid


Ha, thank you for being honest about them. Indeed many choices are forced by situation. 

When it comes to conduits - am I correct they then have to be pretty massive, to be able to fit the actual HDMI plug through?


----------



## HTDIYGUY

puntloos said:


> Ha, thank you for being honest about them. Indeed many choices are forced by situation.
> 
> When it comes to conduits - am I correct they then have to be pretty massive, to be able to fit the actual HDMI plug through?


They don’t have to be massive. A standard “Smurf tube” conduit will work.








Carlon 1 in. x 25 ft. Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing Conduit Coil, Blue 12008-025 - The Home Depot


1 in. x 25 ft. Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing (ENT) coil is a flexible raceway for use in walls, floor and permanent or dropped (free air only) ceilings. ENT is lightweight, hand bendable, and free from



www.homedepot.com


----------



## puntloos

HTDIYGUY said:


> They don’t have to be massive. A standard “Smurf tube” conduit will work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Carlon 1 in. x 25 ft. Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing Conduit Coil, Blue 12008-025 - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> 1 in. x 25 ft. Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing (ENT) coil is a flexible raceway for use in walls, floor and permanent or dropped (free air only) ceilings. ENT is lightweight, hand bendable, and free from
> 
> 
> 
> www.homedepot.com


So 1 inch diameter I take it. Not massive, true.


----------



## flyers10

puntloos said:


> So 1 inch diameter I take it. Not massive, true.


1.5" is better.


----------



## ChezWhiz

What I would do differently is make absolutely sure the subfloor is perfectly flat. We had an addition built that included space for a 24’x17’ home theater and adjacent equipment room. The plan called for the use of AdvanTech underlayment over Serena mat over a new concrete slab. The stage and riser built on top to ‘float’ on the slab I followed the recommended steps while applying the Serena mat over a slab and the AdvanTech over that with a 1/4” gap between any adjacent wall. However, when I placed the 16” riser and a sand-filled 8” stage on top of the underlayment, the floor buckled upward slightly in between the two structures. It caused a noticeable bounce in an area about 16 square feet in front of the riser. Apparently the forces were too great for the glue to hold. As a remedy, I made some ‘pressure relief’ cuts around the area to allow the underlayment to lay flat. Though not recommended for pure isolation purposes, placed a few tapcons just to secure it further. I was hesitant to pull up and re-glue the underlayment and the mat for fear of making it worse. 

Full disclosure: After the slab was first poured, a dip was detected (naturally) in that same general area as the bounce. After applying many bags of floor leveling compound I felt satisfied the floor was fairly defect free. In retrospect, the proof was in the pudding (literally). Either there was an insufficient amount of compound applied or it failed as a suitable substrate for the glue to adhere. Probably will never know for sure. Suppose there’s a lesson about how hidden flaws can come back and bite you when least expected…or something like that. 😑


----------



## HendersonD

One thing I did to try and avoid any major or even minor mistakes when constructing my home theater is to start with a good set of plans before doing any of the work. Attached are my plans, hope they can help others. Here is my posting for the theater


----------



## Bbapache

frankwp said:


> That's some very nice pipe work.


That's what she said...🤣


----------



## frankwp

Bbapache said:


> That's what she said...🤣


Even as an electrician, that joke will never, ever get old. I love doing pipe work and think it's worth taking the time to make it beautiful. I wish I'd taken more pics of the work I've done over the years. I'd hang those on the wall.


----------



## LastButNotLeast

Yeah, it gets old. Sorry.
Michael


----------



## analogmeister

HendersonD said:


> One thing I did to try and avoid any major or even minor mistakes when constructing my home theater is to start with a good set of plans before doing any of the work. Attached are my plans, hope they can help others. Here is my posting for the theater


Very nice. What program did you use for the layout/plan? I would like to use something similar to build my next room. Thanks.


----------



## HendersonD

analogmeister said:


> Very nice. What program did you use for the layout/plan? I would like to use something similar to build my next room. Thanks.


Microsoft Visio, quite easy to learn


----------



## Bbapache

A.T.M. said:


> *List of Posts 0-1119*
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Long time lurker (12 years), first time poster. I figured I would save some folks some time and make a list of the first 1119 posts of this thread. I'm sure there are misspelled words and some contradictions, but I tried to make the list similar to what was posted.
> 
> My most current laptop doesn't have word on it, so I included an old copy of word 1997-2004 and a pdf copy of it from my other laptop just to be on the safe side.
> 
> I hope it works and you all can enjoy, or at least save you some time.
> 
> Aaron


Dude, thank you for all of this hard work! I happened to start at the end and work backward and you just saved me a heck of a lot of time!


----------



## jerrolds

One of the biggest changes is to simply have the mlp be in the back 1/4 of the room 

Room modes and bass nulls neat the center of the room is a ***** of a problem I'm dealing with right now Esp since my subs are in the front sound stage and tougher to add to the back corners


----------



## kev7017_3485

Dennis Erskine said:


> This is a thread you can use to post your "oh oops" and the things you'd do differently the next time around.
> 
> 
> Let people know what box canyons or lessons you learned so we can avoid the same mistakes.
> 
> 
> Have fun...and keep it fun.


When my wife and I first moved to our home we had the HV installed without having the installers place the duct work on one side of the basement. So I wouldn’t have to box it off.


----------



## cricket9998

Don’t hire painters unless you control everything they do. Mine used Benjamin Moore regal and it’s just awful. Scuffs if you even look at it. Way worse than Behr marquee which I used myself

Use fabric walls. Black flat paint isn’t dark enough. I just put protostar on and it’s okay but I wish I just made panels out of fiberglass with dark fabric over it.


----------



## squared80

cricket9998 said:


> Mine used Benjamin Moore regal and it’s just awful. Scuffs if you even look at it. Way worse than Behr marquee which I used myself


Consumer Reports agrees. And so do I.


----------



## cricket9998

squared80 said:


> Consumer Reports agrees. And so do I.
> 
> View attachment 3330026


Yep exactly. Dynasty flat black I can touch and it won’t smudge. It’s extremely easy to touch up and the coverage is excellent. Gotta love contractors hating on behr. They only use BM because of the discounts. Last time I hire a painter for sure. I painted the rest of the house myself but made this mistake for the theater out of laziness.


----------



## damnsam77

Hey everyone, so I have been out of the game for a little over 10 yrs, just getting back into it in my 3rd home with my 2nd home theater build. I am just trying to see what worked back in 2010 which was cutting edge that is now frowned upon in 2022. Right now - I am wondering what is the proper height of the stage in comparison a Riser? This height dimension of the Stage is the one thing I did not document in my build thread in 2009/2010. Most risers are 12" in total height (using 2x10s and double Plywood w/ roofing felt in between). Should I frame the stage to be shorter in height? 10" height total? 8" ??? and what did we stuff between the joists in both the riser and stage nowadays ? Thanks - I am trying to see what everyone is doing nowadays compared to 10-15 yrs ago when I did my first HT. (you can view in my signature)


----------



## LastButNotLeast

For the riser:








Files · main · HeZeGuide / HeZeGuide · GitLab


A guide for HoverEzE understanding and construction




gitlab.com




from:








The Tactile Response Thread for BASS :))


This is interesting. Someone from Lovesac might be lurking around here. I just got this in an email. I can't find any specifics on it as far as what's in each of the modules and their prices yet. Might have to wait for the launch next week. It looks like they're doing surround sound modules...




www.avsforum.com




You may be sorry you asked. 
Michael


----------



## damnsam77

LastButNotLeast said:


> For the riser:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Files · main · HeZeGuide / HeZeGuide · GitLab
> 
> 
> A guide for HoverEzE understanding and construction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gitlab.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Tactile Response Thread for BASS :))
> 
> 
> This is interesting. Someone from Lovesac might be lurking around here. I just got this in an email. I can't find any specifics on it as far as what's in each of the modules and their prices yet. Might have to wait for the launch next week. It looks like they're doing surround sound modules...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may be sorry you asked.
> Michael


I know I will be, I remember the good old days. I am totally happy with the 11-12 inch riser height. I am starting to think that the stage cannot or should not be higher than 9-10 inches.


----------



## hensed

I should have had contractors use large plastic pipe to use as wire/cable conduit to the projector from the equipment room. I would like to be able to pull cable thru the piping when ever I want. One year after build, I think the HDMI cable might be giving me trouble...not much I can do about it now.


----------



## cricket9998

hensed said:


> I should have had contractors use large plastic pipe to use as wire/cable conduit to the projector from the equipment room. I would like to be able to pull cable thru the piping when ever I want. One year after build, I think the HDMI cable might be giving me trouble...not much I can do about it now.


If nothing is stapled you can attach a cable to the old one and pull it through again. Pull two cables so you have a spare to use as a fishing line


----------



## nathan_h

damnsam77 said:


> Hey everyone, so I have been out of the game for a little over 10 yrs, just getting back into it in my 3rd home with my 2nd home theater build. I am just trying to see what worked back in 2010 which was cutting edge that is now frowned upon in 2022. Right now - I am wondering what is the proper height of the stage in comparison a Riser? This height dimension of the Stage is the one thing I did not document in my build thread in 2009/2010. Most risers are 12" in total height (using 2x10s and double Plywood w/ roofing felt in between). Should I frame the stage to be shorter in height? 10" height total? 8" ??? and what did we stuff between the joists in both the riser and stage nowadays ? Thanks - I am trying to see what everyone is doing nowadays compared to 10-15 yrs ago when I did my first HT. (you can view in my signature)


Two things come to mind. First, if by “stage” you mean something up front under the screen, there are more and more builds that don’t necessary add one. 

Second, riser height is now considered of a geometry question and determined by the head height of the first row viewers, how high on the wall the bottom of the screen is, and the head height of the second row viewers — which will dictate a certain riser height to make the screen visible for the folks in the second row. There is a “riser height calculator” thread you may find interesting.

Then there is other cool stuff like much better science about speaker placement (not just multiple subs and getting those time aligned and integrated better, but that has come a LONG WAYS in the last decade but also how to optimize for formats like Atmos). https://professionalsupport.dolby.c...nt-Studio-Technical-Guidelines?language=en_US

Staring a build thread might elicit lots more info.


----------



## anjunadeep

nathan_h said:


> Two things come to mind. First, if by “stage” you mean something up front under the screen, there are more and more builds that don’t necessary add one.


I'm not planning on adding one. My only concern is with a screen wall if there is no stage, how do you prevent the ol' vacuum from destroying the grill clothe. It's like a removable baseboard is needed or something.


----------



## nathan_h

Most false walls seem to have framing on the floor so I haven’t given it a lot of thought. That is at that height there is wood behind the fabric wall.


----------



## Jeff Ripplinger

LastButNotLeast said:


> Not a lot of WAF in that set up, though.
> 
> Michael


That is what I thought a long time ago when my wife would not let me listen to TV shows and Movies through the surround setup I had at the time. Time to get a new wife. If your wife does not share your hobbies, just as she would ask you to share hers, she's not a keeper.


----------



## nathan_h

I’m so glad we have many separate hobbies we don’t share because even people that share my hobbies don’t share my tastes….just look at the debates about widescreen setups and CIH versus CIW. Oi! No way I’d want to have that debate over dinner every night!


----------



## Nuieve

About to build my 3rd theater... 

I don't think I ever made mistakes per se really. The only thing I wasn't happy with was my 1st screen (135") which was far too small and didn't really do anything for "immersion".

But time also showed that many things that I thought were important, weren't. 

The only two important things:
1. The largest screen that can fit in the room. As in, floor to ceiling, every last inch used. That's non-negotiable. 
2. Comfy recliners with built-in cupholders.

Things that I thought were important but now I find a complete waste of money/time that add practically nothing to HT experience.

1. Room design. All those panels, lighting, fancy carpets and details... Don't care about any of it. Doesn't add anything to the experience. I walk into the room, turn off the light right away and watch a movie and then I exit. I spend maybe 5-10 seconds before and after the movie actually "seeing" the room. Black paint, curtains wall to wall, cheap carpet gets the job done 99.9%.
2. Advanced audio. Downgrading from full size 7.2 setup to basic HTIB 5.1. Having owned both for extended periods of time, I hear pretty much zero benefit of "upgraded" audio.
3. Also, I'm sticking to 1080p basic PJ and BluRays but this is a personal choice.

Sadly now that Hollywood officially went through the drain and completely stopped making good movies, all good writers quit/retired... I don't see any reason to invest into HT. Haven't seen a single good movie since COVID started and everyone lost their marbles. All I'm seeing on Netflix and Redbox is unwatchable trash. I love having HT but I don't see much future material to feed my hobby for much longer and don't feel like it's worth any kind of investment beyond a very basic setup.


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## mtbdudex

Nuieve said:


> About to build my 3rd theater...
> 
> I don't think I ever made mistakes per se really. The only thing I wasn't happy with was my 1st screen (135") which was far too small and didn't really do anything for "immersion".
> 
> But time also showed that many things that I thought were important, weren't.
> 
> The only two important things:
> 1. The largest screen that can fit in the room. As in, floor to ceiling, every last inch used. That's non-negotiable.
> 2. Comfy recliners with built-in cupholders.
> 
> Things that I thought were important but now I find a complete waste of money/time that add practically nothing to HT experience.
> 
> 1. Room design. All those panels, lighting, fancy carpets and details... Don't care about any of it. Doesn't add anything to the experience. I walk into the room, turn off the light right away and watch a movie and then I exit. I spend maybe 5-10 seconds before and after the movie actually "seeing" the room. Black paint, curtains wall to wall, cheap carpet gets the job done 99.9%.
> 2. Advanced audio. Downgrading from full size 7.2 setup to basic HTIB 5.1. Having owned both for extended periods of time, I hear pretty much zero benefit of "upgraded" audio.
> 3. Also, I'm sticking to 1080p basic PJ and BluRays but this is a personal choice.
> 
> Sadly now that Hollywood officially went through the drain and completely stopped making good movies, all good writers quit/retired... I don't see any reason to invest into HT. Haven't seen a single good movie since COVID started and everyone lost their marbles. All I'm seeing on Netflix and Redbox is unwatchable trash. I love having HT but I don't see much future material to feed my hobby for much longer and don't feel like it's worth any kind of investment beyond a very basic setup.


Sad you feel that way, can you post a link to your build thread?


Sent from my iPhone 11Pro using Tapatalk


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## Nuieve

mtbdudex said:


> Sad you feel that way, can you post a link to your build thread?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 11Pro using Tapatalk


I don't think I ever posted my builds. My last HT I built 7 years ago was given to my ex after divorce.


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## Alan P

Nuieve said:


> Things that I thought were important but now I find a complete waste of money/time that add practically nothing to HT experience.
> 
> 2. Advanced audio. Downgrading from full size 7.2 setup to basic HTIB 5.1. Having owned both for extended periods of time, *I hear pretty much zero benefit of "upgraded" audio.*







> Haven't seen a single good movie since COVID started and everyone lost their marbles. All I'm seeing on Netflix and Redbox is unwatchable trash.


Not true, plenty of good movies still around, you just have to look harder.


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## Twelton43

I built a custom home theater about 2 years ago. Thankfully, I had great input from this forum, did my research and ended up w a product that I am quite happy with. 

One thing that I’ve noticed, and I’m not sure how to resolve, is fresh air supply. Despite having two forced air registers and one air intake, I find the air gets quite stale and warm after a few hours. One movie is fine, but two starts to feel like a lack of O2. 

So, my recommendation to others is to consider a mini split system for the theater room. I had the option, but didn’t install it. 

Best decision was to get essentially the largest screen that would fit my wall (140” 2.40:1). 

Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nathan_h

Good call out. Ductless minisplits are great for customizing the temperature in a room.

But note that the one thing they* cannot* do is add fresh air or oxygen into the room. 

To add oxygen, you need ducts to and from another place in the house or (more complicated) to outside.


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## LastButNotLeast

I don't think he's really running out of oxygen. 
A ceiling fan would probably help and be easier (and cheaper) to install.
Michael


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## NotShorty

LastButNotLeast said:


> I don't think he's really running out of oxygen.
> A ceiling fan would probably help and be easier (and cheaper) to install.
> Michael


Agree that he's not running out of oxygen anytime soon, but his room is accumulating carbon dioxide (and exhaled water vapor) which humans are very sensitive to because it is what subconsciously drives our respiratory system (except in people with advanced lung disease like COPD). A ceiling fan helps with neither of those two things.


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## LastButNotLeast

The room is stale and warm; he's not hypoxic, and I doubt the room is air-tight. Boosters in the vents might help, circulation might help. Either is easier than poking a hole in the outside wall.
Any way to vent the projector somewhere?
Michael


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## anjunadeep

Twelton43 said:


> I built a custom home theater about 2 years ago. Thankfully, I had great input from this forum, did my research and ended up w a product that I am quite happy with.
> 
> One thing that I’ve noticed, and I’m not sure how to resolve, is fresh air supply. Despite having two forced air registers and one air intake, I find the air gets quite stale and warm after a few hours. One movie is fine, but two starts to feel like a lack of O2.
> 
> So, my recommendation to others is to consider a mini split system for the theater room. I had the option, but didn’t install it.
> 
> Best decision was to get essentially the largest screen that would fit my wall (140” 2.40:1).
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Theater I'm working on is at the end of the hall and just has one door. I kind of worry about it getting stuffy even though I have some pretty good AC running through there. I think also home theaters might be susceptible to smells because of all the fabric (acoustic treatments, false walls, etc) around the space.


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## nathan_h

NotShorty said:


> Agree that he's not running out of oxygen anytime soon, but his room is accumulating carbon dioxide (and exhaled water vapor) which humans are very sensitive to because it is what subconsciously drives our respiratory system (except in people with advanced lung disease like COPD). A ceiling fan helps with neither of those two things.





LastButNotLeast said:


> The room is stale and warm; he's not hypoxic, and I doubt the room is air-tight. Boosters in the vents might help, circulation might help. Either is easier than poking a hole in the outside wall.
> Any way to vent the projector somewhere?
> Michael



As long as there is an air return, as well as an air supply, inside the room, it can work okay. Many rooms especially in older buildings, don't have an air return. Without an air return, supply is greatly curtailed. 

We have one room like that. If the door is closed, it will be five degrees hotter than the rest of the house in summer, since the cold air cant enter the room via the supply vent quickly enough....because the air inside the room has nowhere to go (the gap under the door is inadequate).

An air return would help a lot. Then, a booster for that room's supply would be of some benefit. 




anjunadeep said:


> Theater I'm working on is at the end of the hall and just has one door. I kind of worry about it getting stuffy even though I have some pretty good AC running through there. I think also home theaters might be susceptible to smells because of all the fabric (acoustic treatments, false walls, etc) around the space.


Once the off gassing of new material is done (might take a few weeks with some materials but mostly just a few days) I would doubt you will smell that stuff. 

Farts, on the other hand, will be an ongoing issue without an air return and signifianct input of air.

Note that I am NOT talking about outdoor air. Just air from outside the room, as it normally supplied in a ducted HVAC system.


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## anjunadeep

nathan_h said:


> Once the off gassing of new material is done (might take a few weeks with some materials but mostly just a few days) I would doubt you will smell that stuff.
> 
> Farts, on the other hand, will be an ongoing issue without an air return and signifianct input of air.
> 
> Note that I am NOT talking about outdoor air. Just air from outside the room, as it normally supplied in a ducted HVAC system.


Yeah, I have an air return and a good supply of air, so hoping the room is very fresh. I think it only having two or three people will help also, it's not like I'm cramming six dudes in there.


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## impreza276

Some closing notes from the Fortress Of Amplitude build:

- It's easy to fall for the charm of older houses, but NEVER AGAIN! A huge amount of the work on the theater was fixing old house problems. In general, new houses are designed so much better suited to our modern lifestyles in terms of convenience, efficiency, and no ancient parts that are crumbling away, which is a segway to the next point:

- HVAC. I would have loved to be able to tap into a whole house HVAC system. The house had hot water baseboard radiator heating, and an AC unit in the attic to cool the main floor. Being able to tap into a whole house HVAC system may have alleviated the need for most, if not all, of the dedicated theater HVAC equipment. The house was originally built with the expectation that it would be air leaky, so it was not advisable to seal it up. Not that sealing the old house up would have been possible in the first place. The house was also grossly energy inefficient. It had upgraded double pane windows and insulated exterior doors, but that hardly matters when the walls themselves are happy to lose all the heat. My new house of twice the size consumes just half as much energy to maintain the same comfort. And the air quality is so much better.

- This one I got right - If you have a humidity problem you need a dedicated dehumidifier. An AC unit with a dehumidification mode is not going to make the grade. My mini split unit had a dehumidification mode and it barely made a dent in humidity. I'd still be sweating with the AC at 69 degrees on a humid day.

- The dehumidification airflow circuit should run in parallel to the HVAC circuit, not in series. That way the dehumidifier can do its thing independently when the cooling is not running. By tying the theater to the rest of the house HVAC, it would have been possible to put the dehumidifier in another room and the overall reduced humidity would have balanced out throughout the system.

- But wait, there's more on dehumidification: A dehumidifier generates a substantial amount of heat so that should be factored in when sizing an AC unit. I installed a 12000 BTU mini split in the HT, which in theory sounded more than adequate. I later had some regret for not going one up to an 18000 BTU unit.

- For plumbing PEX is the new way to go. It's so easy it's like cheating. Just be aware of the caveats. This post is about HT don'ts and we haven't even mentioned anything HT specific yet.

- Get a nicely sized and proportioned room. From my very limited experience, I d believe that though it is possible to use sound treatments and dsp room correction to manage the ills of a less than ideal room, a well sized and proportioned room will still perform substantially better in the first place. It could be that lower frequencies are able to breath and establish themselves better when they have the space. I've experienced really good sound from rooms that are at least 8' high, 13' wide and 22' long. Its like high performance cars - You can pour money into modding a Honda Civic and and turbocharge it to within an inch of its life to get to 180mph. But you are better off starting with a Corvette which takes naturally to that performance in the first place without breaking a sweat.

- Having your main seating near the back wall is not ideal.

- Bigger wall enclosures for speakers. I sized the main wall speaker enclosures for DIYSG HTM10s early on. Later on I wanted to switch to Titans but couldn't.

- I have a theory that an extra-large screen can take away from the sense of scale of a large room. A smaller screen can maintain the sense of scale of a large room by not overwhelming it. Immersion can also be overrated some times. The best thing to do, as is always recommended, is to set up a projector and extensively test out the image on the wall before deciding on a screen size and seating position. The screen in the Fortress worked really well for it. However friend's larger theater felt grander still, though his screen was smaller.


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## Molon_Labe

What would I do differently, next time? To be honest, there will be no next time. In retrospect, I would probably forgo the entire theater build completely if I could roll back time. I have become very disenfranchised with the majority of the content coming out of the studios lately. For that reason, I really don't use the theater much at all anymore. I am honestly thinking of parting out and just keeping a nice system for audio only.


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## LastButNotLeast

There's still a lot of very good older stuff available. I can't imagine you've watched it ALL.
Michael


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## NotShorty

Molon_Labe said:


> What would I do differently, next time? To be honest, there will be no next time. In retrospect, I would probably forgo the entire theater build completely if I could roll back time. I have become very disenfranchised with the majority of the content coming out of the studios lately. For that reason, I really don't use the theater much at all anymore. I am honestly thinking of parting out and just keeping a nice system for audio only.


Bummer because it looks like you have a pretty killer set of gear and a great room to watch it in.

I personally feel like most of the best content these days is on television/series rather than movies. Maybe you need to shift gears and broaden your horizons, IDK.

Or move onto a different passion and sell me your Atmos speakers for dirt cheap 😅

For real though, I kind of get it. I have this home theater disease like the rest of you, and I'm just trying to "scratch the itch" for as little money as possible. I'd imagine it would be quite frustrating to shell out the kind of cash you did only to find nothing you enjoy watching.

Good luck either way.


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## kev7017_3485

Dennis Erskine said:


> This is a thread you can use to post your "oh oops" and the things you'd do differently the next time around.
> 
> 
> Let people know what box canyons or lessons you learned so we can avoid the same mistakes.
> 
> 
> Have fun...and keep it fun.


I would go with a much larger screen than I did. And pre-paint all walls and ceiling a darker grey. Drape Velvet above and on the side walls by the screen.


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## LastButNotLeast

Flat black paint behind the screen works well. Not as sexy as velvet, but easier and probably cheaper.
Michael


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## kev7017_3485

LastButNotLeast said:


> Flat black paint behind the screen works well. Not as sexy as velvet, but easier and probably cheaper.
> Michael


Correct. I’m saving for Velvet.


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## ArieS1204

kev7017_3485 said:


> Correct. I’m saving for Velvet.


Saving? Hobby Lobby, when on sales, has velvet for less than 8 bucks a yard.


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## xpostal

Molon_Labe said:


> What would I do differently, next time? To be honest, there will be no next time.


That makes me sad to hear since you made a really nice room. Luckily I don't have the same feeling. I enjoy my setup (which is still pretty basic) almost every day. While not a lot of the new movies are that great, I now enjoy so much older stuff. It is like seeing it for the first time on the big screen with quality sound. I also love some not so great movies and smile like a little kid when watching.


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## EdgarQ

Molon_Labe said:


> What would I do differently, next time? To be honest, there will be no next time. In retrospect, I would probably forgo the entire theater build completely if I could roll back time. I have become very disenfranchised with the majority of the content coming out of the studios lately. For that reason, I really don't use the theater much at all anymore. I am honestly thinking of parting out and just keeping a nice system for audio only.


I’m also sorry to hear this reason. I can’t imagine building another theater, but for a different reason, I’m exhausted from home improvement in general, having upgraded the home to Ethernet, smart switches, and ductless mini-splits to underserved rooms, in addition to working on the theater.

My whole reason for the theater is to re-live the greats in all their original glory, so that’s unaffected by current quality levels. And even though most current content is a let-down, I would argue that Mad Max Fury Road, Dune (new), Top Gun Maverick, and Andor are all up to par and worth experiencing in your theater. Have you seen all those?

Edit: Also Blade Runner 2049, Interstellar, and Rogue One are mostly great.


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## Alan P

Some recent (last ~5-6 years) movies that I personally think are outstanding (in no particular order):

CODA (2021)
Our Friend (2019)
Wind River (2017)
Uncut Gems (2019)
Hostiles (2017)
Cherry (2021)
When They See Us (2019)
Thirteen Lives (2022)
Only the Brave (2017)
Small Engine Repair (2021)
Soul (2020)
Blackbird (2019)
1922 (2017)
The Father (2020)
Bad Times at the El Royale (2018)
Old Henry (2021)
Don't Look Up (2021)
Stronger (2017)
The Trial of the Chicago 7 (2020)
The Invisible Man (2020)
Emily the Criminal (2022)
Dark Waters (2019)
Ready or Not (2019)
Strange But True (2019)
Waves (2019)
Nobody (2021)
Emancipation (2022)
Bullet Train (2022)
Knives Out (2019)
A Quiet Place (2018)
Unbelievable (2019)
She Said (2022)
News of the World (2020)
Jerry and Marge Go Large (2022)

I could keep going, but you get the idea. There are definitely good movies out there, you just have to know where to look.


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## flyers10

EdgarQ said:


> I’m also sorry to hear this reason. I can’t imagine building another theater, but for a different reason, I’m exhausted from home improvement in general, having upgraded the home to Ethernet, smart switches, and ductless mini-splits to underserved rooms, in addition to working on the theater.
> 
> My whole reason for the theater is to re-live the greats in all their original glory, so that’s unaffected by current quality levels. And even though most current content is a let-down, I would argue that Mad Max Fury Road, Dune (new), Top Gun Maverick, and Andor are all up to par and worth experiencing in your theater. Have you seen all those?
> 
> Edit: Also Blade Runner 2049, Interstellar, and Rogue One are mostly great.


I suck at DIY so will be so glad when finally finish my little basic room. I can't see doing it all over again if I ever move unless I pay someone to do all the work.


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## nathan_h

True, in the last year these are just some of the good new releases I was able to see. And there were probably three times as many from the last hundred years of movies that also graced my screen. We really are living in a golden age of access to content.










































not to mention things like Tar, The Greatest Beer Run Ever, Fall, Prey, Luck, Triangle of Sadness, Everything Everywhere All at Once, Hunt, Three Thousand Years of Longing, Dog, Ambulance..... I mean if you want wild ass action that will give your system and eyes and ears a workout, try:










And if you want to bend your mind, the thoroughly entertaining side of things is still going strong:










But yeah, in some ways, they don't make them like they used to. Luckily, there are thousands of older movies I haven't gotten to yet. Hell, I just realized I had never caught up DePalma's catalog, even missing some really good ones like:










Or Clint Eastwood's best movie:


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