# Midwest BLENDZILLA demonstration meet!!



## overclkr

Guys and Gals,


Now that I know that my second G90 is on its way and provided she doesn't show up damaged, Tim kindly offered up his Blendzilla solution for us to check out!


The closing date on my home is November 22nd, and was looking at Saturday December 9th to demo the Blendzilla for all to see!


Of course my new house will be in disarray because of the family and I just moving in so I'm going to consider it a PRE theater construction meet.


All who are interested please chime in and we'll keep tabs on the amount of attendee's. My new home is located in St. John, Indiana, and there are plenty of nice hotels just north if your looking to make a night of the meet.


I'm considering making my screen out of SMX accoustical material and will probably be projecting the stack/blend on a 10-11ft wide screen.


Let me know what you think!!










Cliff


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## antorsae

Very nice!!!


How I would LOVE to be there!!!










Try 13ft wide in 2.35:1 and let me know what you think!


-Andres


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## draganm

hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?


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## bomrat

im starting to feel the pain already


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draganm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?



Yea ,and I hadn't even finished wiping !














Cliff, lets see if we can get Stewart to loan us the appropiate screen. I think 11' to 12' wide would be right don't you think ?


Art


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
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> Very nice!!!
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> How I would LOVE to be there!!!
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> Try 13ft wide in 2.35:1 and let me know what you think!
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> -Andres



I'd really like to do that, but since I wont be doing that aspect when my theater is done, I dont want to "hook" myself on that format considering all I do by wowing myself!










Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draganm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?



Absolutely not.


If it wasn't for Art, I wouldn't have done this.


















Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
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> Yea ,and I hadn't even finished wiping !
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> Cliff, lets see if we can get Stewart to loan us the appropiate screen. I think 11' to 12' wide would be right don't you think ?
> 
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> Art



That would be awesome big dog. How do I go about?????


Have you seen the SMX material? I emailed sandman today and asked for a sample.


Cliff


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That would be awesome big dog. How do I go about?????
> 
> 
> Have you seen the SMX material? I emailed sandman today and asked for a sample.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Well since this is between CEDIA and CES perhaps they have something we can get.I'll see what I can do. Only a couple of contacts. The only new Steawrt I know of is the 1.3 without grain that Joe Kane discussed at CEDIA


Art


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## siropa

I'd love to come see it. Will be slick to see how this compares to Art's stack.


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## dochlywd

Put me down for a confirmed! My buddy and I would love to make the trip. Besides, it'll be nice to meet you in person. After all, you are one of my "video-dorks" as my wife calls all of us!







It's funny that she never shy's away from boasting (every chance she gets) about the DIY theater that her "main video-dork" has put together. And now that I think of it, it's also funny that that is ALL she boasts about her "main video-dork". I guess I need to get back to the push ups and sit ups!



Mike


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## scorch123

Congratulations on new house and a great housewarming party to get things started










Are you basically doing an in-home audition of Blendzilla? Or do you plan on stacking your G90s instead? I'm sure either way, you can't go wrong...


I've seen the Blendzilla unit in person, and it's got video-geek written all over it










- Steve O.


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well since this is between CEDIA and CES perhaps they have something we can get.I'll see what I can do. Only a couple of contacts. The only new Steawrt I know of is the 1.3 without grain that Joe Kane discussed at CEDIA
> 
> 
> Art



Excellent my friend. Your help is El-Mucho-Appreciated!










Cliffy


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dochlywd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Put me down for a confirmed! My buddy and I would love to make the trip. Besides, it'll be nice to meet you in person. After all, you are one of my "video-dorks" as my wife calls all of us!
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> It's funny that she never shy's away from boasting (every chance she gets) about the DIY theater that her "main video-dork" has put together. And now that I think of it, it's also funny that that is ALL she boasts about her "main video-dork". I guess I need to get back to the push ups and sit ups!
> 
> 
> 
> Mike



Exercise??? What's that?































Looking foward to you coming up Mike.


Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *scorch123* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Congratulations on new house and a great housewarming party to get things started
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> Are you basically doing an in-home audition of Blendzilla? Or do you plan on stacking your G90s instead? I'm sure either way, you can't go wrong...
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> I've seen the Blendzilla unit in person, and it's got video-geek written all over it
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> - Steve O.



Thanks much Steve,


I'm going to be doing an in-home audition of the Zilla albeit it will take place in my unfinished basement, but, I will make sure the light control is of the utmost importance.


After the meet, construction will begin.....


Cliff


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## Art Sonneborn

This sounds so much like my stack test at the local hotel conference room in January 2004 for me. It worked on Sunday I called the builder to demolish my old theater on Monday. It has been almost three years. I remember telling Ken as we were getting things together that this was perhaps the most exciting time of my life. I was going to get my dream theater that I had wanted for twenty five years ! I bet you must feel the same Cliff.


I'll see about a "Videodork" T Shirt for the event.










Art


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This sounds so much like my stack test at the local hotel conference room in January 2004 for me. It worked on Sunday I called the builder to demolish my old theater on Monday. It has been almost three years. I remember telling Ken as we were getting things together that this was perhaps the most exciting time of my life. I was going to get my dream theater that I had wanted for twenty five years ! I bet you must feel the same Cliff.
> 
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> I'll see about a "Videodork" T Shirt for the event.
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> Art



Art,


With all of the crap I've been dealing with this year it's been really difficult for me to be in a REALLY good mood. I'm hoping that improves dramatically soon......










I am EXTREMELY excited about what I am going to have and cannot believe it's actually happening. You know how I felt day one of my visit to your place. My Jaw went through the floor of your theater and ended up in the bathroom on the first floor!


I've been ADDICTED ever since.










Not to mention, I made a kick ass friend to boot!










Cliffy


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## D6500Ken

Of course, I'll be there to tweak the twins.



Ken Whitcomb


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *D6500Ken* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Of course, I'll be there to tweak the twins.
> 
> 
> 
> Ken Whitcomb



Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.































Cliffy


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## aspec2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
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> Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.
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You know my uncle?


I would love to come see your NEW STUFF.


Walt


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aspec2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You know my uncle?
> 
> 
> I would love to come see your NEW STUFF.
> 
> 
> Walt



Looking foward to your visit Walt.


I was talking to Arli and we are going to at least try to have the theater framed out. It's gonna be a rough time trying to get it done, but I think we can get it accomplished.........


Cliff


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## slartibartfasst

Hi Cliff,


I'm new on this block, but I would suggest that if you have ANY regard for your wallet - don't see the BlendZilla. You know how it is, you get a HT idea in your head and the next minute you're massaging the finances to make room for the next "tweak." You're going to end up like Rip Van Winkle, wandering around Chicago with images of the BlendZilla playing on a loop in your head.


Seriously, though, when you take the Zilla for a spin, do try a 2.35 blend, for all of the reasons that Nick has stated. I went with a 120" wide 1.78 screen, because it fit my overall space, but if you're dedicating a room as an HT there is no reason not to go 2.35. There are some compelling bandwidth reasons, as well.


So everyone's running their G90s at 1080p60, and damn happy with the sharpness of the image, right? Because 1080p72 loses a little bit of sharpness?


For bandwidth, that's the difference between about 2200 (1920 plus a few for porches) by 1125 (1080 plus a few) by 60 or 72. So that's the difference between 148.5mhz (@60) and 178.2mhz (@72). Or put this way:


2200 x 1125 x 60 = 148.5mhz

2200 x 1125 x 72 = 178.2mhz


From what Clarence, Art and other G90 owners have indicated, the G90 starts to roll off the high frequency detail somewhere inbetween these two points in an unacceptable manner. Unacceptable might be too strong a word, though, so we'll just say that inbetween those two scan rates 3:2 judder becomes more acceptable than the high frequency roll-off / loss of sharpness.


With the Zilla, you could run 1440x1080p72 per projector on a ginormous 2.35 screen. That still gives you the ~4x3 aspect to fit the face of the tube, and a 2880 pixel wide unblended image-space to work with. At 1440x1080 in 2.35, the blending situation looks like this:


1080 x 2.35 = 2538 pixels, with no vertical scaling.

2880 - 2538 = 342 pixels for the blend zone.

342 / 2880 = ~12% overlap, which Tim has suggested is sufficient for the blend zone.


At 1440x1080x72hz, and assuming the same porches as the 1920x1080 scenario, the bandwith equation looks like this:


(1440+280) x 1125 x 72 = 138.3mhz.


So you're still coming in under the 148.5mhz point that most everyone else finds perfectly workable with the G90. Sports and HDTV in 1.78 stil runs in the unscaled 1920x1080 portion of the middle of the screen, but you gain the massive 2.35 presentation, and the screen masking would be easier to boot. I don't know if the Zilla can do this, but I can't imagine that Antorsae would have gone down this road if it wasn't feasable.


But I'm not sure if the Zilla does 1440x1080; Tim indicated that an update was in the works for 1080P. For now, I imagine that it works with PC resolutions and jumps from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200 per projector. At 60hz and 72hz for vertical refresh, this works out to a bandwidth (using the above assumptions) of:


(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 60 = 140.4mhz

(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 72 = 168.5mhz


I suppose you'd have to actually take a look and see if the added resolution at 1200p72 would be worth the softening versus the downscaling at 1024p72. This all assumes you give a hoot about these nits, but for 18K I sure wouldn't want to see either softening or judder in my picture.


One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.


Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.


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## jtnfoley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.
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> Cliffy



"Gwedo?" Wasn't that the bounty hunter that caught Han Solo?









'Gwedo'... sheesh! Spelling like that woulda got me a smack, I tell ya! Despite being an outward harp, I've got _guido_ blood... mom's maiden name is 'DiLoreto.'











How far south of 80/94 is St. John (drive time wise?)


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Cliff,
> 
> 
> I'm new on this block, but I would suggest that if you have ANY regard for your wallet - don't see the BlendZilla. You know how it is, you get a HT idea in your head and the next minute you're massaging the finances to make room for the next "tweak." You're going to end up like Rip Van Winkle, wandering around Chicago with images of the BlendZilla playing on a loop in your head.
> 
> 
> Seriously, though, when you take the Zilla for a spin, do try a 2.35 blend, for all of the reasons that Nick has stated. I went with a 120" wide 1.78 screen, because it fit my overall space, but if you're dedicating a room as an HT there is no reason not to go 2.35. There are some compelling bandwidth reasons, as well.
> 
> 
> So everyone's running their G90s at 1080p60, and damn happy with the sharpness of the image, right? Because 1080p72 loses a little bit of sharpness?
> 
> 
> For bandwidth, that's the difference between about 2200 (1920 plus a few for porches) by 1125 (1080 plus a few) by 60 or 72. So that's the difference between 148.5mhz (@60) and 178.2mhz (@72). Or put this way:
> 
> 
> 2200 x 1125 x 60 = 148.5mhz
> 
> 2200 x 1125 x 72 = 178.2mhz
> 
> 
> From what Clarence, Art and other G90 owners have indicated, the G90 starts to roll off the high frequency detail somewhere inbetween these two points in an unacceptable manner. Unacceptable might be too strong a word, though, so we'll just say that inbetween those two scan rates 3:2 judder becomes more acceptable than the high frequency roll-off / loss of sharpness.
> 
> 
> With the Zilla, you could run 1440x1080p72 per projector on a ginormous 2.35 screen. That still gives you the ~4x3 aspect to fit the face of the tube, and a 2880 pixel wide unblended image-space to work with. At 1440x1080 in 2.35, the blending situation looks like this:
> 
> 
> 1080 x 2.35 = 2538 pixels, with no vertical scaling.
> 
> 2880 - 2538 = 342 pixels for the blend zone.
> 
> 342 / 2880 = ~12% overlap, which Tim has suggested is sufficient for the blend zone.
> 
> 
> At 1440x1080x72hz, and assuming the same porches as the 1920x1080 scenario, the bandwith equation looks like this:
> 
> 
> (1440+280) x 1125 x 72 = 138.3mhz.
> 
> 
> So you're still coming in under the 148.5mhz point that most everyone else finds perfectly workable with the G90. Sports and HDTV in 1.78 stil runs in the unscaled 1920x1080 portion of the middle of the screen, but you gain the massive 2.35 presentation, and the screen masking would be easier to boot. I don't know if the Zilla can do this, but I can't imagine that Antorsae would have gone down this road if it wasn't feasable.
> 
> 
> But I'm not sure if the Zilla does 1440x1080; Tim indicated that an update was in the works for 1080P. For now, I imagine that it works with PC resolutions and jumps from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200 per projector. At 60hz and 72hz for vertical refresh, this works out to a bandwidth (using the above assumptions) of:
> 
> 
> (1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 60 = 140.4mhz
> 
> (1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 72 = 168.5mhz
> 
> 
> I suppose you'd have to actually take a look and see if the added resolution at 1200p72 would be worth the softening versus the downscaling at 1024p72. This all assumes you give a hoot about these nits, but for 18K I sure wouldn't want to see either softening or judder in my picture.
> 
> 
> One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.



Excellent post !Lots of great information there.


Art


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.



Yes, I agree with Art, Great Post!!!!










Thanks much for the info. I do however do MUCH more than just 2:35 movies and my room will be roughly 14ft wide hence my extreme wants for good ol' 16:9.


Maybe if they came out with a 2:35:1 ratio XBOX 360, I'd be game!










My hopes for the meet will be both projectors mounted to a temp location on the ceiling projecting 1600X1200 4:3. That is gonna be one SHARP picture!


.....and yes, I agree, if it's THAT good, I'm gonna probably be selling drugs on the corner to try and finance it.































Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtnfoley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Gwedo?" Wasn't that the bounty hunter that caught Han Solo?
> 
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> 
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> 'Gwedo'... sheesh! Spelling like that woulda got me a smack, I tell ya! Despite being an outward harp, I've got _guido_ blood... mom's maiden name is 'DiLoreto.'
> 
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> How far south of 80/94 is St. John (drive time wise?)



Damn that AVS spell check!!!!!!!!































My new crib is roughly 20-30 minutes at the MOST from Indianapolis Blvd and 80/94.


Cliff


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## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
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> .....and yes, I agree, if it's THAT good, I'm gonna probably be selling drugs on the corner to try and finance it.
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Cliff,

I'd never recommend anything against the law but I hope you're prepared to hit the streets !










Art


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## jtnfoley

Speaking of drugs...

Be prepared to share whatever you've been smokin, thinking that you'll be able to hang TWO G90s two weeks after moving in to a new house, with Thanks Giving in the way.


I don't know about your wife, but all the women I've ever known would quickly point out that PMS has precedent as "justifiable homicide / temporary insanity!"










I may try to invent some pretext of visiting Detroit and swinging down there with an audiophile buddy of mine... Don't count me as a "confirmed" tho.


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## skylooker1

Count me in. If you need some equipment moving or lifting help, let me know.


MIKE


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## Art Sonneborn

Mike ,

If getting something to the ceiling is the task, I pick you to be on my team !







To control G90s to a ceiiling mount realistically requires five guys but only for about 30 seconds.


Art


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## Mark P

I would certainly stick with the SmX Screen, the Stewart will set you back thousands and thousands you can put elsewhere. Hundreds of folks have them now and I am doing a 14' 2.35:1 replacing a Stewart StudioTek 130 (non Perf). The SmX looks sizzling next to the Stewart. Alan Gouger now owns a SmX screen and has tried the Stewarts and Vutecs and all the other over priced perf screens. Check out his review here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...24#post8502024 


I am sure Ruben will send you a big chunk of this screen material to show at your meet, it will introduce what may be the finest AT screen available for CRTs ( or any PJ for that matter) at a pricepoint anyone can handle, SmX has Masking solutions and framing in the works, PM me if you want his contact info


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I would certainly stick with the SmX Screen, the Stewart will set you back thousands and thousands you can put elsewhere. Hundreds of folks have them now and I am doing a 14' 2.35:1 replacing a Stewart StudioTek 130 (non Perf). The SmX looks sizzling next to the Stewart. Alan Gouger now owns a SmX screen and has tried the Stewarts and Vutecs and all the other over priced perf screens. Check out his review here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...24#post8502024
> 
> 
> I am sure Ruben will send you a big chunk of this screen material to show at your meet, it will introduce what may be the finest AT screen available for CRTs ( or any PJ for that matter) at a pricepoint anyone can handle, SmX has Masking solutions and framing in the works, PM me if you want his contact info



Mark,


Yep. I made my way through that incredibly LONG and FUN filled thread today and as well PM'd Alan about the choice to go with SMX. I think I'm going to go that route.


Not to mention as well, 30 day money back guarantee if I don't like it!


Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I'd never recommend anything against the law but I hope you're prepared to hit the streets !
> 
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Yep. I can see it now......


Maybe my wife can wiggle her ass around too to help raise some dough!!!










Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skylooker1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Count me in. If you need some equipment moving or lifting help, let me know.
> 
> 
> MIKE



You got it Mike. I just might take you up on that!










Cliff


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## William Seaward

You can count me in... I would really like to see this Blendzilla...


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## dochlywd

I have no idea if it would be needed, but I could bring my JohnHWman engineered DVI card if you want. Just let me know if it is needed.



Mike


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *William Seaward* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You can count me in... I would really like to see this Blendzilla...



You got it William! It's gonna be time to start tallying soon.










Cliff


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## bomrat

checked out cliffs basement today. boy i got some work to do. nice house though.. working on plans now for this room. damn ac ducts its like you always have to move something.


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## skylooker1

Saw, hammer, screwgun, bigger hammer, swearing, band-aid. beer. Not always in that order...


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> checked out cliffs basement today. boy i got some work to do. nice house though.. working on plans now for this room. damn ac ducts its like you always have to move something.



Dude, just so you know, you are BEYOND, WAY BEYOND the meaning of a true friend. Everything you have done for me is priceless.......


Is this thing going to be a Mini Imax in the end result or what????


I AM SO DAMN EXCITED RIGHT NOW!!!!!































I haven't stopped thinking about it since I left today.































Cliffy


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## overclkr

Here is the list so far:


Art Sonneborn

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat

siropa

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

Possibly John Gannon and Gang, and FO SHO,

My Hottie Wife......


Who's next??????










Cliff


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## James McClellan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whos next?



oooh, me, me me..pick me!



Cliff, yours was the first properly setup CRT I ever saw. It's been downhill ever since







. I'm off work Monday and Tuesday that week. I can move those days to Thurdsday and Friday to give me plenty of time to get up there for this meet. I'll let you know.


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## Don_Kellogg

Cliff I'd be honored to attend, I passed on stacking for now but maybe this will push me over the edge  as I said never say never I might still go that way once the room is done.


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *James McClellan* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> oooh, me, me me..pick me!
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff, yours was the first properly setup CRT I ever saw. It's been downhill ever since
> 
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> . I'm off work Monday and Tuesday that week. I can move those days to Thurdsday and Friday to give me plenty of time to get up there for this meet. I'll let you know.



ONLY and I mean ONLY if you promise to have Cocktail or two with me!










Just kidding.










I would be more than honored if you would take the time to come James.










Cliff


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff I'd be honored to attend, I passed on stacking for now but maybe this will push me over the edge  as I said never say never I might still go that way once the room is done.



You are now officially FOR WARNED Don.


Guys, this will be the BEES KNEES FO SHO.































Cliff


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## dochlywd

My motive for coming to the meet has just changed. After seeing the list above......


Screw the blend! I'm coming to see the hottie wife!

























Mike


----------



## James McClellan




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> ONLY and I mean ONLY if you promise to have Cocktail or two with me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would be more than honored if you would take the time to come James.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



I'll have a rum and coke...without the rum







.


----------



## yborstrip

Cliff

I would like to see Blendzilla.


Blaine (Raster II)


----------



## overclkr

You got it Blaine.


Maybe we can finally watch a bit of the Bikini Destinations DVHS. :^)


Cliff


----------



## Clarence

I think it's about time for another visit...


Count me in!


I have miles to burn, but I might try to thumb a ride from O'Hare if any of you guys are heading from that direction.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it's about time for another visit...
> 
> 
> Count me in!
> 
> 
> I have miles to burn, but I might try to thumb a ride from O'Hare if any of you guys are heading from that direction.



OH HELL YEAH!!!































You won't be thumbing a damn thing big dog.........










I'm sitting here watching the Bears on my Mits....


WE ARE going to the Superbowl this year.










Al though I do wish you were coming to the finished product, I am thrilled that you are coming.


Can't wait!!!!










Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS

Will Tim be there to help setup BlendZilla?


Just curious what gain you will be using... I want to see if Blending really is limited to 1.0 or if 1.3 could be used.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Gino,

Where did you get the information that 1.3 shouldn't be used for blending ?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gino,
> 
> Where did you get the information that 1.3 shouldn't be used for blending ?




It is generally accepted in the industry, 1.0 works best.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It is generally accepted in the industry, 1.0 works best.



For blending specifically ?


Art


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For blending specifically ?
> 
> 
> Art




That is exactly what some more experienced people told me; higher gains make the blend zone harder to conceal. My 107" wide Luxus Deluxe is 1.0 Snowmatte.


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is exactly what some more experienced people told me; higher gains make the blend zone harder to conceal. My 107" wide Luxus Deluxe is 1.0 Snowmatte.




Great ! Thanks Tim.










Art


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gino,
> 
> Where did you get the information that 1.3 shouldn't be used for blending ?



Art, I was speaking with Mark Robinson, director of manufacturing for Stewart. He says that Snomatte 1.0 is the most appropriate fabric for blending.


Anything with higher gain, will give away the blend in intensity, if you move a few degrees off axis. Color shift, due to the short throw and varying proximity of the individual tubes, also mandates the snomatte. Any screen that would improve the blend, would necessarily be rear projection fabric, and well below unity gain. I frankly do not see a way to improve on Snomatte. Also stay clear of curved screens.


----------



## overclkr

I CANT WAIT!!! I AM SO EXCITED!! :^)


Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Art, I was speaking with Mark Robinson, director of manufacturing for Stewart. He says that Snomatte 1.0 is the most appropriate fabric for blending.
> 
> 
> Anything with higher gain, will give away the blend in intensity, if you move a few degrees off axis. Color shift, due to the short throw and varying proximity of the individual tubes, also mandates the snomatte. Any screen that would improve the blend, would necessarily be rear projection fabric, and well below unity gain. I frankly do not see a way to improve on Snomatte. Also stay clear of curved screens.



Got it !










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Got it !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Hmmmm..... something in the works Art?????










Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I was just trying to make sure I had my blended 12' wide screen done before your demo in December. I wasn't sure about the screen material however.





























































Just kdding , I was just indicating my understanding.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just trying to make sure I had my blended 12' wide screen done before your demo in December. I wasn't sure about the screen material however.
> 
> 
> Just kdding , I was just indicating my understanding.



I'm looking foward to your opinion after it's all said and done and hopefully, it will be on that 12ft screen you are envisioning.

















Cliff


----------



## antorsae

Hi,


With regards to screen gain and blending, I think the issue is more off-axis response rather than unity gain. It just so happens that the high-gain screens tend to exhibit steep gain curves on-axis but go down very quickly off-axis, which is bad when you throw light from two different projectors at different indicent angles.


Take a look at the off-axis gain of this screen:











It's almost constant!


Either I am a very forward-looking or just plain lucky as the above is my existing 160" wide screen!










Regards!


----------



## overclkr

Wow! 160" wide???


You sir ARE TRULY addicted! :^)


Cliff


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow! 160" wide???
> 
> 
> You sir ARE TRULY addicted! :^)
> 
> 
> Cliff



I know, I know, but... look who's talking... the organizer of the G90 blend rig showoff... posting at like 5:00AM your time ???


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know, I know, but... look who's talking... the organizer of the G90 blend rig showoff... posting at like 5:00AM your time ???



LOL. I'm on the road working and always have a hard time sleeping in hotels. At 4AM, the eyes were open......










I'm killing the time reading the HT construction threads......


Great stuff in there!!!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Updated list guys:


Art Sonneborn

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat

siropa

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don Kellog

yborstrip

Clarence

Casey Mershon

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


Does anybody have a recommendation for CHEAP blackout cloth??


Cliff


----------



## garyfritz

Ask your Hottie Wife to watch for the 40% off coupons at Jo-Ann. I think my 48x87 screen cost me about $12 for BO.


But if you need monster-sized BO for your mega-screen, check out Rose Brand -- 110" wide, $15/yd.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garyfritz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ask your Hottie Wife to watch for the 40% off coupons at Jo-Ann. I think my 48x87 screen cost me about $12 for BO.
> 
> 
> But if you need monster-sized BO for your mega-screen, check out Rose Brand -- 110" wide, $15/yd.



Actually Gary, what I'm looking for is black cloth that I can surround the area with from ceiling to floor for complete light control.


Thanks for the tip on the Jo-Ann fabrics coupons.


Cliff


----------



## JBJR

I pick up black velvet on ebay all the time. Pretty cheap there. You can get polyester velvetine type and the all cotton type. I went with the heavy furniture grade cotton, man is this stuff heavy and really black!

But, this type was not cheap!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JBJR* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I pick up black velvet on ebay all the time. Pretty cheap there. You can get polyester velvetine type and the all cotton type. I went with the heavy furniture grade cotton, man is this stuff heavy and really black!
> 
> But, this type was not cheap!!



Found some thanks!!! It was CHEAP!!!










Just what I was looking for as it will probably go in the garbage after the meet!


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!



Those tuning in late may not be familiar with edge blending; our DVX processor permits us to switch, transcode, scale, and deinterlace up to eight signal sources, then render two "halves" of these images with soft edge overlap for one huge seamless image that uses the most possible phosphor of the tubes of two CRT projectors; resulting in a big crisp display of 1.78 and 2.35 sources:



left sixty percent












right sixty percent












and if it is aligned well we get this












And this is the system that Cliff will be demoing.


----------



## overclkr

To cool.......


Can't wait.........


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Drool...


----------



## antorsae

Tim... instead of the a boring wheather screenshot to showoff the Zilla you might as well post some more tempting one


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim... instead of the a boring wheather screenshot to showoff the Zilla you might as well post some more tempting one



Don't worry big dog, I'll take care of that at the meet.

















Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliff... do you mind taking a picture of an all white screen, and also a horizontal grey scale (test pattern included in the DVX) ... I'd like to see how well you get the blend... cheers!


----------



## overclkr

Will do Gino. I'm sure Clarence and I both will be taking LOT's of screenshots...... :^)


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Gotta throw this one in........


Any digital owners out there want to compare this setup????


Boy would I love to see a comparison.........


Cliff


----------



## snkby

jr.high there in st. john.


cant make the meet as im out in northern california now but i will be sooo close right before xmas.


gah!!!


i fly into ohare and then pick-up my dad in hobart and then drive to indianapolis to meet with my wife and kids at her parents house.


so close and yet so far.


----------



## LJG

Tim:


Is it required that both G90's have new tubes for the blend, or can thier be different hours on the tubes?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LJG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim:
> 
> 
> Is it required that both G90's have new tubes for the blend, or can thier be different hours on the tubes?




Guys!


I have Marquees, one with 2000 hour tubes and the other with 6000 hr tubes, and aside from all white scenes one cannot see a difference.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Updated list guys:
> 
> 
> Art Sonneborn
> 
> Ken Whitcomb
> 
> Bomrat
> 
> siropa
> 
> Mike (dochlywd)
> 
> Walt (aspec2)
> 
> Mike (skylooker1)
> 
> William Seaward
> 
> James McClellan
> 
> Don Kellog
> 
> yborstrip
> 
> Clarence
> 
> Casey Mershon
> 
> and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......
> 
> 
> Does anybody have a recommendation for CHEAP blackout cloth??
> 
> 
> Cliff




Anybody else want to sign on board here? Should be huge!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

What is the Date has it been set? and that's KELLOGG







frost flakes haha


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Don should be enough...







Cliff ,I just want you to know that as of now Angela will be coming with me to your place.


Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don should be enough...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff ,I just want you to know that as of now Angela will be coming with me to your place.
> 
> 
> Art



Sweet big dog.










If your staying at a hotel, you want the Hampton Inn in Munster. I will check and see if there is something closer to me.


List updated:


Art Sonneborn and his Hottie Wife, I mean, Angela
















Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat

siropa

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don KELLOGG









yborstrip

Clarence

Casey Mershon

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


How about the playoff game huh?


The glow on the walls is fluorescent lights from the kitchen, forty feet away, one does not need a pitch black room for this on a 107" wide screen.....











The black cubes just under the screen are two BagEnd Infra18 subwoofers. I have a third one still boxed but I am afraid to plug it in........hehehe.....





























BlendZilla.........there is no substitute........oh crap, the Porsche attorneys are on line 2.....


----------



## klover

Wow.


----------



## overclkr

HOLY **** is that thing CRANKING out some light!










Too bad it's Marquee's only running at 1024P.










It's also Too Bad that you aren't coming to witness what will probably be the BEST CRT projected image ever!!!!!!!










1600X1200P PER projector and I'm shooting for 72hz.










I don't think that the cooperation from Stewart is going to work out Tim so I have commited myself to using the 1.16 gain SMX Weaved Acoustic Screen. I hope that it will be ok in regards to the blend zone, but the gain is so minimal that we should be ok.


This is going to be too damn cool, even though it will take place in an unfinished basement, I still plan to make it comfortable.

















Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow look at those pics.. Theirrrrrrrrrrrr Great


----------



## antorsae

Cliff - can you confirm the date and place again? I might be able to pull this one off...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff - can you confirm the date and place again? I might be able to pull this one off...



Are you serious or joking?? That would be awesome if you were there.


Saturday December 9th at my new home in St. John, Indiana.


We will have JUST moved in so the house will be in disarray, but drink will be plenty.










Cliff


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think that the cooperation from Stewart is going to work out Tim so I have commited myself to using the 1.16 gain SMX Weaved Acoustic Screen. I hope that it will be ok in regards to the blend zone, but the gain is so minimal that we should be ok.
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



The SmX has a perfect off axis performance so this should help if I am understanding the problem with blending on a gain screen correctly. You can go 80 degrees off axis and it looks the same.


Im not sure the gain numbers on the SmX are pure science or if there is such a thing, two differnet people can come up with two different results and have, one said 0 gain and the other guy said 1.16, regardless, it looks darn good up against a Stewart Studiotek 130 without perfs. We had people that knew nothing about screens or could care less pick their favorite and it was about 50/50 with most saying " is there a difference?"


heres a pic with the SmX hanging in front of the Stewart the way we tested and we had black fabric behind the SmX to duplicate the open black space behind












heres a couple videos of the original material before it was improved with a tighter weave (much better results) but they give you an idea of how good it performs, remember its shot with a camcorder so the results have bloomed whites that appear blue, this is the nature of this camera not Stewart or SmX, it also had troubles focusing sometimes but what can you expect shooting a 14' screen

www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/shear2.wmv 

www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/shearweave.wmv 

www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/screenshots.wmv 

http://www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hos...60andstuff.wmv


----------



## Person99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> My new home is located in St. John, Indiana



Wow, wish I could make it both to see this and my old stomping grounds. I lived in Merrillville for a couple years while in High School.


Dave


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> HOLY **** is that thing CRANKING out some light!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..... is going to be too damn cool, even though it will take place in an unfinished basement, I still plan to make it comfortable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



I expect that the rating of 240 ANSI of one M9500 is about doubled to the 480 ANSI range, and I did not exceed 50 on the contrast to have it......


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The SmX has a perfect off axis performance so this should help if I am understanding the problem with blending on a gain screen correctly. You can go 80 degrees off axis and it looks the same.
> 
> 
> Im not sure the gain numbers on the SmX are pure science or if there is such a thing, two differnet people can come up with two different results and have, one said 0 gain and the other guy said 1.16, regardless, it looks darn good up against a Stewart Studiotek 130 without perfs. We had people that knew nothing about screens or could care less pick their favorite and it was about 50/50 with most saying " is there a difference?"
> 
> 
> heres a pic with the SmX hanging in front of the Stewart the way we tested and we had black fabric behind the SmX to duplicate the open black space behind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heres a couple videos of the original material before it was improved with a tighter weave (much better results) but they give you an idea of how good it performs, remember its shot with a camcorder so the results have bloomed whites that appear blue, this is the nature of this camera not Stewart or SmX, it also had troubles focusing sometimes but what can you expect shooting a 14' screen
> 
> www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/shear2.wmv
> 
> www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/shearweave.wmv
> 
> www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hosted/screenshots.wmv
> 
> http://www.mediamax.com/gobigred/Hos...60andstuff.wmv



Mark,


That is one hell of a theater you have there. I remember following your thread.










SMX I truly feel is the material of choice for my stack when I do it and I think it will make for a GREAT example for the Blendzilla meet.


Thanks much for the info!


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Person99* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow, wish I could make it both to see this and my old stomping grounds. I lived in Merrillville for a couple years while in High School.
> 
> 
> Dave



Dave,


It would be nice if you could make it! Much has changed in the area.


Although the conditions surrounding the screen at the meet will not be ideal, I think it will be ignored once the demo's start.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I expect that the rating of 240 ANSI of one M9500 is about doubled to the 480 ANSI range, and I did not exceed 50 on the contrast to have it......



Quit bragging Tim.































Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

I wasnt aware DVX could do 1600x1200 @ 72?? Did I miss a firmware update Tim? I thought at that resolution it was limited to 60Hz?


You could try [email protected] though


Cliff, try all 1024p, 1050p, 1200p... I found that I couldnt really see a difference with any of these... also, will you have an external video processor also? I find using the VP50 to the DVX really improves on PQ


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I wasnt aware DVX could do 1600x1200 @ 72?? Did I miss a firmware update Tim? I thought at that resolution it was limited to 60Hz?
> 
> 
> You could try [email protected] though
> 
> 
> Cliff, try all 1024p, 1050p, 1200p... I found that I couldnt really see a difference with any of these... also, will you have an external video processor also? I find using the VP50 to the DVX really improves on PQ



Gino,


I was under the impression that it will do [email protected] per projector? I guess Tim will have to chime in on this one. If not, I can stick to 60hz. Anything under 1200P at 4:3 on a G90 will reveal visible scanlines on a 12ft wide screen hence me wanting to use the G90's "sweet spot".


Cliff


----------



## sandbagger

Ok guys


I have been a bit MIA from a few forums lately.... heck I didnt even make it to the last HEMI GTG either.... and now just catching this thread....











COUNT ME IN.....


I was the only person from here to actualy make it out to arts demo at the hotel when Ken set up the G90's side by side


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandbagger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ok guys
> 
> 
> I have been a bit MIA from a few forums lately.... heck I didnt even make it to the last HEMI GTG either.... and now just catching this thread....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> COUNT ME IN.....
> 
> 
> I was the only person from here to actualy make it out to arts demo at the hotel when Ken set up the G90's side by side



Most excellent Sandbagger. Looking foward to meeting you........


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


Here is what the controlware allows one to click on:


1280 x 1024 at 50 60 72 and 75 hz refresh


1400 x 1050 the same


1600 x 1200 at 50 or 60 hz


1920 x 1080 at 50 or 59 hz, not sure if blend capable need to try some stuff


----------



## overclkr

[email protected] per projector it is then my friend........


Maybe I'll try 1050P as well.......


Cliff


----------



## kschmit2

I'd go with 1280x1024 @ 72 Hz for NTSC film-sourced material.


If the DiVentix does not support IVTC for HD sources, use an external processor to do that and feed the 1080p24, 1080p48 or 1080p72 signal into the DiVentix for blending only.


----------



## Gino AUS

that's what I'm doing now


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


No baseball last night but the football looked excellent!!!!!























Giants over Dallas.....


----------



## mp20748

The two new tubes came in last for the 8500 (thanks Tim). I've been way too busy to get them in the unit, but can't wait..










This is one setup I'm really looking forward to doing a screenshot session of..










Got ruby?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mp20748* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The two new tubes came in last for the 8500 (thanks Tim). I've been way too busy to get them in the unit, but can't wait..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one setup I'm really looking forward to doing a screenshot session of..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got ruby?



So Mike, you really should fly out with Clarence when he comes for the meet. You really need to get your hands on a G90 so that you can see first hand why he is KING.































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys!
> 
> 
> No baseball last night but the football looked excellent!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Giants over Dallas.....



Tim,


Those screen shots are amazing! You would think that your watching a d!g$%#l!!










Cliff


----------



## damon

Tad disappointing to hear that Gino is getting his best results when using processing from VP-50 prior the DVX 8022. What is going on with that?


----------



## Gino AUS

Yes... you would think for paying that sort of money I shouldnt need one... well you dont NEED one, but there is a definite increase in PQ when I add the VP50 in the loop


----------



## welwynnick

There were many questions a few months ago about how DiVentix did de-interlacing, but not many answers. Sounds like the VP50 simply does it better, which is not too surprising as it's the state of the art. The better Crystalio, Lumagen, Optoma or Vantage processors would probably do a good job too. An expensive hardware blender can't keep up with those sorts of developments.


That's why I think switching/de-interlacing/scaling/noise reduction/picture control etc should be kept in the VP, and splitting and blending just left to the blender.


If the DiVentix is just bobbing or scaling 1080i video (like the VP30 for example) then it may not give you a better picture than say, a VP50 driving a stacked pair.


Nick


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *welwynnick* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There were many questions a few months ago about how DiVentix did de-interlacing, but not many answers. Sounds like the VP50 simply does it better, which is not too surprising as it's the state of the art. The better Crystalio, Lumagen, Optoma or Vantage processors would probably do a good job too. An expensive hardware blender can't keep up with those sorts of developments.
> 
> 
> That's why I think switching/de-interlacing/scaling/noise reduction/picture control etc should be kept in the VP, and splitting and blending just left to the blender.
> 
> 
> If the DiVentix is just bobbing or scaling 1080i video (like the VP30 for example) then it may not give you a better picture than say, a VP50 driving a stacked pair.
> 
> 
> Nick



Nick


We asked Analogue to tell us a bit about their technology and they declined. Multi-box systems are quite cumbersome so a one-box solution running one firmware controlled by one PC is the friendliest solution in my opinion. 480i sources have their inherent limits so if some other scaler handles that better then so be it. My base DVD player here is an HTPC and looks fabulous for that use so I cannot grumble about Gino's setup!


----------



## Gino AUS

One comparison I will be able to make though is between the deinterlacing between the DVX and VP50. Once my projectors are back up and running (Tim - do you have those 2/4/6 pole magnets for me?), I'll be able to hookup the XA1 at 1080i60 direct to DVX, and also compare it to 1080i60 deinterlaced to 1080p60 by the VP50.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> We asked Analogue to tell us a bit about their technology and they declined. Multi-box systems are quite cumbersome so a one-box solution running one firmware controlled by one PC is the friendliest solution in my opinion. 480i sources have their inherent limits so if some other scaler handles that better then so be it. My base DVD player here is an HTPC and looks fabulous for that use so I cannot grumble about Gino's setup!



Tim,


What is your suggestion for me at this point with things getting closer?


I REALLY DONT want to run the G90's at 1024P. They will spit that up, eat it again, and then crap it on the floor. It's really not the optimal resolution for a G90.


If I run 1200P in 4:3, the picture will be the bomb. Albeit, there will be scanlines, it will not be NEARLY as bad if 176 lines of information were taken out of the equation.


Can we do this and the deinterlacing be within spec of what the demanding videophiles coming to the meet will expect or do I need to put the VP50 in the mix........ ????????


Cliff


----------



## Mark_A_W




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One comparison I will be able to make though is between the deinterlacing between the DVX and VP50. Once my projectors are back up and running (Tim - do you have those 2/4/6 pole magnets for me?), I'll be able to hookup the XA1 at 1080i60 direct to DVX, and also compare it to 1080i60 deinterlaced to 1080p60 by the VP50.




Why 1080p60? The VP50 will output 1080p48 (dunno about 72).


----------



## Gino AUS

Yes, I can try 1080p48 too... it wont do 72Hz though


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes... you would think for paying that sort of money I shouldnt need one... well you dont NEED one, but there is a definite increase in PQ when I add the VP50 in the loop



Gino - do you see that increase on PQ when using HD-DVD? I would suspect that if you output 1080p24 to the DVX and then output 72 Hz to the PJs there is no deinterlacing in the equation.


----------



## Gino AUS

Where do you get the 1080p24 to the dvx from?? The HD-SDI mod firmware hack isnt available yet... the VP50 is how I'd input 1080p24/48/60 to the DVX


As soon as my boards come back, I'm really interested to see how 1080i60 via HDSDI direct to the DVX compares to first being deinterlaced by the VP50 to 1080p48/60 then to DVX


----------



## antorsae

I thought the Toshiba HD-DVD player supports it. Looks like it doesn't.


Even if it doesn't today, it is just a question of time that 2nd gen HD-DVD and BR players supports native 1080p24 output assuming the movies are encoded in 1080p24 too.


----------



## overclkr

BAH!!!!! You guy's and your 1080P/24......


Blah blah blah.........










I could care less. I've been watching .ts files tonight, one after another on my Samsung 1200P LCD's at 1200P/60, and I am STUNNED. Nuff said......


I CANT WAIT for this meet. The G90's WILL SING LIKE NO OTHER FP device in HT.


Forget about the damn DI, the refresh rate, and the so called "optimal" way to watch a movie.


The people at the meet will speak for what they see and all will be known......










Oh boy is it getting good!










Cliffy


----------



## Mark_A_W

You really don't notice the judder?


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliffy, if only you could see what my Ultra's are now capable of, with the DVX, VP50 and XA1


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You really don't notice the judder?



Why would I Mark? These files are not encoded as such when it comes to custom refresh.


Isn't it true as well that HD DVD and Blue Ray are encoded in 1080P60? I don't notice "jutter" on HD DVD either........


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliffy, if only you could see what my Ultra's are now capable of, with the DVX, VP50 and XA1



Gino, I'm only yapping at the mouth about my G90's. I cant help it.










I'm sure your picture is REFERENCE. That's a hell of a combination you have there.
























Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The people at the meet will speak for what they see and all will be known......



And they will go forth , and they will be fruitful and mutiply................ no wait that's something else.

















Art


----------



## garyfritz

I think it's the G90 stacks that are going forth and multiplying. Do you feel like a granddad, Art??


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *garyfritz* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think it's the G90 stacks that are going forth and multiplying. Do you feel like a granddad, Art??



Well if all the G90s weren't enough, the way my knees felt when I got out of bed this morning sealed it !


















Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> And they will go forth , and they will be fruitful and mutiply................ no wait that's something else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art


































Cliffy


----------



## Mark_A_W




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why would I Mark? These files are not encoded as such when it comes to custom refresh.
> 
> 
> Isn't it true as well that HD DVD and Blue Ray are encoded in 1080P60? I don't notice "jutter" on HD DVD either........
> 
> 
> Cliff



TS files are flagged as 1920x1080i at 60hz. But a simple Inverse Telecine using the unofficial Dscaler 1080i decoder will extract the 23.976fps base rate out of them. Use that decoder in the PC and they are magically 23.976fps, instead of 29.976 fps.


Film is still shot at 24fps. Video (other than DVHS) does not duplicate frames in encoding, it uses repeat field flags to tell the player to reconstruct the 60hz rate, but you can ignore these flags and detect the cadence.


I'm not 100% certain about HD-DVD and BD but I'm reasonably certain they are encoded at 1080p 24fps and the cadence is established by flags again.


Flags can and should be ignored when you have a mulitsync capable projector (and scaler/PC).


That's why Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!



Monday night football saw New England take Minnesota........


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys!
> 
> 
> 
> Monday night football saw New England take Minnesota........



Who won?


----------



## Person99




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why would I Mark? These files are not encoded as such when it comes to custom refresh.
> 
> 
> Isn't it true as well that HD DVD and Blue Ray are encoded in 1080P60? I don't notice "jutter" on HD DVD either........
> 
> 
> Cliff



If the source is video, then no judder. If the source is film, there is no way to play it back at 60 Hz without judder because the odd number frames are visible for 50% more time than the even number frames. Ain't no way to get rid of judder at 60 Hz.


Dave


----------



## Mark_A_W

Yep, and the reason* I haven't pulled the trigger on a HD-A1 (cheap on ebay now), is it only offers a 60hz output. The judder is obvious, it drives me nuts.


I wish someone would hack the firmware and add custom res's like a momitsu. 1080i 72hz would be awesome. I already have one HD-DVD disc, and a step down transformer, and a Moome convertor on loan. Just want 72hz...


* And I'm buying some XG LC boards, a Moome ISS card, a holiday to Queensland (not as far north as Gino), and I want an oscilloscope.


I already have enough HD that I can play back without judder.


----------



## Gino AUS

Why dont you make the trip up a little further Mark? I reckon it would be worth your while


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Why dont you make the trip up a little further Mark? I reckon it would be worth your while



Mark... beware!!!







Look what happened to me... I made a trip to Tim's and ended up with the Blendzilla, and four Marquees...


----------



## Mark_A_W

Ahh, you just wait till you have a couple of kids....reality hits hard.


Even getting from Currumbin to Seaworld is going to be a major military manoeuver....


----------



## antorsae

I'm already there (just one, though)... Gino might want to show The Incredibles or a similar kid friendly movie... which also happens to be in HD and represents a reference in PQ


----------



## Mark_A_W

Umm, ahh, it's 1500 kilometres from where I'll be to Gino's.


If I was going to Cairns, yep, absolutely I'd drop in. But 1500k's? That's like Spain to umm, Russia (?).


It's a big place you know.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mark... beware!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look what happened to me... I made a trip to Tim's and ended up with the Blendzilla, and four Marquees...



LOL!







How is my little gem doing by the way????


Are you still thinking about coming?


Cliff


----------



## antorsae

The 9000LC is resting next to the other big boys... on the floor







My HT is not still finished so I cannot move the PJs in yet... This wait is killing me!


To be honest I have no idea on what to do with the 9000LC and the 9500LC... Convert the 9000LC into a 9500LC and blend them for 16/9?










I would really like to go. I will know for sure in the next two weeks.


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Umm, ahh, it's 1500 kilometres from where I'll be to Gino's.
> 
> 
> If I was going to Cairns, yep, absolutely I'd drop in. But 1500k's? That's like Spain to umm, Russia (?).
> 
> 
> It's a big place you know.



Wow... when Gino said "a little further" he really meant much more...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The 9000LC is resting next to the other big boys... on the floor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My HT is not still finished so I cannot move the PJs in yet... This wait is killing me!
> 
> 
> To be honest I have no idea on what to do with the 9000LC and the 9500LC... Convert the 9000LC into a 9500LC and blend them for 16/9?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would really like to go. I will know for sure in the next two weeks.



Well hopefully you will come. It would be awesome.










Make sure if you do come, that you pm me your coctail of choice!










As far as the extra PJ's, well, why not a QUAD BLEND on a 18ft wide screen?































Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark_A_W* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Umm, ahh, it's 1500 kilometres from where I'll be to Gino's.
> 
> 
> If I was going to Cairns, yep, absolutely I'd drop in. But 1500k's? That's like Spain to umm, Russia (?).



That's no excuse... you call yourself an enthusiast or what?







A mate of mine from Sydney is currently on his 4 day drive up here... I think he is half way now... will be here in 2 days. That'd be getting close to 2700k's!


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Gino


When the going gets tough, the tough start driving! How many expected at your house? Pix! Pix! Pix!


----------



## Mark_A_W

Fair go, Pasey and I once drove from Melbourne to Newcastle then back to Sydney in 1 day to pick up 2 Xtras. Then drove back to Melbourne the next day. About a 2500k weekend.










But we didn't have families along for the ride...


----------



## overclkr

I just got off the phone with Ruben (SMX).


What a SERIOUS KICK ASS guy he is. It is so nice to meet people in AVS that are on my level in so many ways.


Showcasing his material at my meet is going to be JUST as IMPORTANT as the BLEND in regards to all of the GOOD THINGS I HAVE READ about the screen material he designed.


This is a HUGE COMPLIMENT to what he has accomplished. His material is a "woven" screen that has a 1.16 actual measured gain with NO COLOR SHIFT or HOTSPOTTING. It will be a perfect compliment to the G90's at 12ft wide.


Hell of a guy that has done a hell of a lot of work to be able to make a DIY material that not only matches but surpasses what the best screen companies have to offer right now at a MUCH smaller price point.


What a GREAT TIME TO BE IN HOME THEATER.


This meet is going to be BEYOND bad ass.


I am ordering the replacement tube for one of my G90's tomorrow from VDC which I am extremely pissed off about right now. The price of 9" tubes has gone UP once again to around 1300 bucks.


In my opinion, VDC is getting to the point of RAPE and driving the casual CRT home theater CRT user out of the market. Charging these kind of prices for replacement CRT's is going to drive CRT into the ground. What a shame.......


Brenda told me today that they are charging 250 bucks for a damn C ELEMENT!!! WTF????










I've known about this for a while now, but to actually hear it from the horse's mouth is extremely disturbing. 250 bucks for a piece of plastic? What pricks.......


I keep thinking more and more about what will light up that 12ft wide SMX material the day of the meet and I get more and more GIDDY. This will be the bomb.


I might not have a finished theater and the environment might not be "ideal" but damn will it be close and WOW, 2 G90'sa blended on a 12ft wide screen at 1600X1200 A PIECE. WOW, and again WOW. SMOKIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I will update the list soon and will close it as well soon as I only have so much room to acommodate.


Jump in NOW if you plan to participate.........










Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


Pencil in John Gannon as a likely attendee, he is going to do everything he can to get there.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> 
> Pencil in John Gannon as a likely attendee, he is going to do everything he can to get there.



You got it Tim.


Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff,

I hate to see you this excited. It could get ugly. Trust me with you in this state I'll be watching my back.










Art


----------



## Gino AUS

Here's a screenshot for you... Ive worked on the magnetics so things are sharper than ever... have a look at the text


btw, I originally tried 1200p60, then compared to 1024p72... didnt see any scanlines on either setting, nor notice any loss in pq

[Aeon Flux HDDVD]


----------



## antorsae

Nice screenshot Gino.


How wide is that screen, BTW?


----------



## Gino AUS

That's still my 121" wide 1.92 screen, the new 156" wide 2.40 screen will be here next week, but wont be able to set that up until 2 weeks later, as I'm on holiday


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I hate to see you this excited. It could get ugly. Trust me with you in this state I'll be watching my back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



You Mr. Sonneborn, do not have to watch your back.


I will say though, that others around me that have brought my LIFE to this point right now should be.


You will understand after we talk............


As far as the anticipation that I have for what is coming, I am EXTATIC.










Guess what else BIG DOG?


There is a JEWEL coming to my meet as well.
































Cliffy


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here's a screenshot for you... Ive worked on the magnetics so things are sharper than ever... have a look at the text
> 
> 
> btw, I originally tried 1200p60, then compared to 1024p72... didnt see any scanlines on either setting, nor notice any loss in pq
> 
> [Aeon Flux HDDVD]



That image has some SERIOUS punch Gino. Very, very, very nice..........










I bought V for V on HD DVD today and am watching it on my Mitsubishi 65813 9" CRT RP.


This transfer is SPECATACULAR. No film grain like in Mission IMP 3 and the BLACKS ARE TO DIE FOR.


There are scenes in this movie where ON OFF CONTRAST for CRT is absolutely KILLER.


This will be showcased at the meet FO SHO.










Cliff


----------



## Kipp Jones

Cliff,

I am very tempted to come to your meet. I have my company Christmas party the night before so I do not know what kind of shape I would be in. I saw earlier in the thread you asked if anyone would want to bring their digital by to compare. I would bring my Pearl but I do not want to put your G90s to shame.
























Congrats on the new home. What time on the 9th???


----------



## Kipp Jones

Hey I did not know you had a 65813. I used to have one, great CRT RPTV. Tweaked out, probably the best CRT RPTV of all time.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kipp Jones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hey I did not know you had a 65813. I used to have one, great CRT RPTV. Tweaked out, probably the best CRT RPTV of all time.



FO SHO. The Diamond CRT RP series has WOWED me since day one.


I watched the V for V HD DVD on it tonight and was literally STUNNED THROUGHOUT the entire movie. Black level and on off contrast are absolutely amazing. Just gourgeous. What a hell of a steal this movie was at 20 bucks........


Once again, what a great time to be in home theater. HD DVD rocks.










Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Yes Cliff, V for Vendetta is indeed the blacks king in that there is lots of it and it is so fuucken clean.







Another tremendous HDDVD/ VC-1 triumph ! I agree, what a great time to be alive if you are into this stuff.










Art


----------



## overclkr

Updated list guys:


Art Sonneborn and his Hottie Wife, I mean, Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat

siropa

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones (Tentative)

This Spainiard is talking of coming......









THIS IS THE MYSTERY SLOT FOR A COOL DUDE IF HE COMES

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


I got some good news tonight from Ryan at the LIttle Guys shop. Looks like a PEARL will be in house for the meet. I'm going to mask the screen appropriately to be able to house this latest digital from Sony. Should be interesting.


Cliffy


----------



## Kipp Jones

Cliff,

Good news on the Pearl.


----------



## overclkr

HAHA!!! I get to stay up late tonight and most of you guys dont!










The core guys went over details tonight with me and I ordered my screen from Ruben. Keep on creepin' up time. I'm getting VERY excited!


2 G90's blended on a 12ft wide screen. YUMMY.........


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ahh I get to stay up late but that's because I'm on global time...


Can't wait to see the blend.. hell now you'll have the SMX material I was thinking about as a sub for a uber Stewart Screen.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ahh I get to stay up late but that's because I'm on global time...
> 
> 
> Can't wait to see the blend.. hell now you'll have the SMX material I was thinking about as a sub for a uber Stewart Screen.



Yep. I've heard nothing but PRAISE about this material Don. Sent you a PM.


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


We had a VIP visitor from Singapore yesterday; when he gets back and recovers from jet lag perhaps he will say a few words.


----------



## mikecazzx

I am planning on being there and may I be the first to say "Welcome To Indiana". I am an Illinois transplant myself. I have a dinner party at 5pm - what time would this start? Perhaps I can meet, greet view and run.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys and Gals,
> 
> 
> Now that I know that my second G90 is on its way and provided she doesn't show up damaged, Tim kindly offered up his Blendzilla solution for us to check out!
> 
> 
> Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecazzx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am planning on being there and may I be the first to say "Welcome To Indiana". I am an Illinois transplant myself. I have a dinner party at 5pm - what time would this start? Perhaps I can meet, greet view and run.



How's it going Mike? Thanks for the Welcome!










I bet your stoked that you wont have to drive NEARLY as far when you come to my place from now on huh? Just so you know, I'm over in the Gates of St. John about 1 1/2 mile east of SR41 (wicker) and 231.


I havent set a start time yet, but the end time, well, is to be determined by how late we can stay up!










Talk to ya,


Cliff


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How's it going Mike? Thanks for the Welcome!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bet your stoked that you wont have to drive NEARLY as far when you come to my place from now on huh? Just so you know, I'm over in the Gates of St. John about 1 1/2 mile east of SR41 (wicker) and 231.
> 
> 
> I havent set a start time yet, but the end time, well, is to be determined by how late we can stay up!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talk to ya,
> 
> 
> Cliff



You will be under 20 minutes from my place so it's a easy drive for sure.


----------



## akumara

Hi!


I'm the gentleman from Singapore, although no VIP (where did that come from?







). Thanks Tim, for giving me a brief demo on how the BLENDZILLA works and of course viewing DVD and Discovery HD channel. I did not have plenty of time and we watched Fifth Element Superbit.


That was easily the best picture I have seen so far! The good thing about having materials that I watch over and over again, is how easy it is to spot any differences. The details, both in highlights and lowlights (is there such a term?) are just incredible, with plenty of color punch. And we did not watched it in a darkened room! I can't imagine how it would look like in a darkened room.


The thing that I like about it is how it still retain that natural, analog look which I much prefer over the unnatural (to me) digital look. To me, that was just a lot more real. Granted, I'm not updated on latest development in digital so I might be wrong. But I know what my preferences are.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *akumara* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The thing that I like about it is how it still retain that natural, analog look which I much prefer over the unnatural (to me) digital look. To me, that was just a lot more real. Granted, I'm not updated on latest development in digital so I might be wrong. But I know what my preferences are.



Check Game........


Your explanation of that "natural, analogue look" is EXACTLY why I put my game in high gear and picked up a set of G90's.










Good luck on your journey into the ultimate display!!!!!










Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Once again, updated list:


Art Sonneborn and his Hottie Wife, I mean, Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat (Props to this dude for rocking by my side and being one of my best FREINDS)

siropa

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

mikecazz

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)

This Spainiard is talking of coming......

THIS IS THE MYSTERY SLOT FOR A COOL DUDE IF HE COMES

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


Who is this MYSTERY SLOT FOR???


Looking foward to him showing up.


Got the SMX Material ordered, as well as my second G90 green tube replacement, black material to hopefully light control the area as much as possible, as well as many other little details that I'll just skip.


Bottom line:


2 G90's on a 12ft wide screen blended at 1600X1200 60hz per projector. That's 3200X2400 minus about 15% for the blend zone.


OH BOY OH BOY I CANT WAIT!!!!!!!!































Not to mention hanging with some of the best people I will EVER come across in my lifetime.


This is GOING TO BE DA BOMB!










Cliffy


----------



## jtnfoley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> 2 G90's on a 12ft wide screen blended at 1600X1200 60hz per projector. That's 3200X2400 minus about 15% for the blend zone.
> 
> 
> Cliffy




Don't you mean 3200 minus 15% for the blend zone by 1200?









C'MON! Somebody was gonna call you out on that one!


----------



## antorsae

>3000 x 1200.... Now I need to get that super PC with two Nvidia 8800 in SLI...


If only Halo 2 PC was out...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> >3000 x 1200.... Now I need to get that super PC with two Nvidia 8800 in SLI...
> 
> 
> If only Halo 2 PC was out...



Big dog, should I officially add you to the list??


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtnfoley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don't you mean 3200 minus 15% for the blend zone by 1200?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C'MON! Somebody was gonna call you out on that one!



I know it's 1200 lines, but wouldn't it essentially be 2400 at 1200 per side minus 15% for the blend zone??????










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I know it's 1200 lines, but wouldn't it essentially be 2400 at 1200 per side minus 15% for the blend zone??????



Blending (1600x1200) + (1600x1200) with a 15% overlap (240 pixels) will give you 2960x1200....


----------



## sandbagger

Humm


some how I droped off the invite list???


its going to be a buisy weekend for me since the Excentric day at Bells Beer on friday and then 2 GTG in chicago on sat. yours and one for HT audio stuff too.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Blending (1600x1200) + (1600x1200) with a 15% overlap (240 pixels) will give you 2960x1200....



Gotcha big dog. Looking at those G90's are making me drool!










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandbagger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Humm
> 
> 
> some how I droped off the invite list???
> 
> 
> its going to be a buisy weekend for me since the Excentric day at Bells Beer on friday and then 2 GTG in chicago on sat. yours and one for HT audio stuff too.



SORRY ABOUT THAT KEVIN!!


Updated:


Art Sonneborn and his Hottie Wife, I mean, Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat (Props to this dude for rocking by my side and being one of my best FREINDS)

Mike (dochlywd)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

mikecazz

Sandbagger (Kevin)

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)

This Spainiard is talking of coming......

THIS IS THE MYSTERY SLOT FOR A COOL DUDE IF HE COMES

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


Cliffy


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking foward to your visit Walt.
> 
> 
> I was talking to Arli and we are going to at least try to have the theater framed out. It's gonna be a rough time trying to get it done, but I think we can get it accomplished.........
> 
> 
> Cliff



I am good with a saw and hammer - let me know when you are going to need help.


----------



## Mark P

Im going to send you my SmX screen since I am guessing your meet is fairly soon and this assures you will have time to make a frame and get everything calibrated in time, this stuff is in high demand and special made in quantity so Im donating to your cause, should go out tomorrow. Your getting 16' so you can have samples if folks want them at the meet. Ill PM tracking


----------



## damon

Tim will have to tell us what exactly is up but the new 2007 Analog Way literature list a promising new array of high resolution outputs for the DVX-8022.


I know there has not been a hardware change so I guess this is just a matter of a software download??


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecazzx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I am good with a saw and hammer - let me know when you are going to need help.



You got it Mike. I'll take all the help I can get because I threw my back out and am waiting for results (looks like it's going to be a herniated disc).


PM me your number ok??


Talk to ya,


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im going to send you my SmX screen since I am guessing your meet is fairly soon and this assures you will have time to make a frame and get everything calibrated in time, this stuff is in high demand and special made in quantity so Im donating to your cause, should go out tomorrow. Your getting 16' so you can have samples if folks want them at the meet. Ill PM tracking




Mark,


I'm a bit confused. I already worked this out with Ruben. Is there something I don't know???????


Cliff


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Im going to send you my SmX screen... this stuff is in high demand and special made in quantity so Im donating to your cause... Your getting 16' so you can have samples if folks want them at the meet.





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm a bit confused. I already worked this out with Ruben. Is there something I don't know???????



Shhh... door prizes.


----------



## Mark P

probably a different deal, not sure but I thought it was this meet. nevermind


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> probably a different deal, not sure but I thought it was this meet. nevermind



Mark,


This must be related to DOOR PRIZES!










Anybody else out there that would like to sponsor for the meet?? Alan Gouger? Anyone? Bueller?










Cliffy


----------



## Kipp Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)
> 
> 
> Cliffy



For the record, were not gay, just good friends who share an interest in HT. Scott is also my daughters Godfather, so show him respect!!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kipp Jones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> For the record, were not gay, just good friends who share an interest in HT. Scott is also my daughters Godfather, so show him respect!!!



Duly noted Mr. Jones.










The wife and I went through the final walk through of the new house tonight and it's looking awesome. I close next wednesday and to be honest, I CANNOT WAIT!


The only thing that I will have to make rule for the meet is SHOES OFF in my STABBIN CABIN!










Also, be prepared for your car to get dirty. The place is a mess from all of the construction but I promise this:


Plenty of GREAT conversation with good people and some pretty kick ass booze.










Cliffy


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Duly noted Mr. Jones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The wife and I went through the final walk through of the new house tonight and it's looking awesome. I close next wednesday and to be honest, I CANNOT WAIT!
> 
> 
> The only thing that I will have to make rule for the meet is SHOES OFF in my STABBIN CABIN!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, be prepared for your car to get dirty. The place is a mess from all of the construction but I promise this:
> 
> 
> Plenty of GREAT conversation with good people and some pretty kick ass booze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Congrats - I hope the building process went smooth and the closing is without event. Its so nice to have a brand new house, not to mention a blank canvas to build a theater in.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecazzx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Congrats - I hope the building process went smooth and the closing is without event. Its so nice to have a brand new house, not to mention a blank canvas to build a theater in.



You got that right big dog. No doubt about it and thanks for the kind words.


I'm sitting here in front of my new monitors that I purchased to replace my 21" Trinitrons. They are the Samsung 20 inch 204B with a native rez of 1600X1200. I actually really like them a lot. The black isn't as good as CRT, but they throw a nice SHARP clearly detailed picture that for the price (I think I paid $219 each for them) ROCKS.


Dude I CANNOT stop thinking about this meet. We are going to have a BLAST. It's ashame that you have to jump in and out because from about 7PM and later, it's gonna be PARTY TIME.










I hope the mystery guest shows up. THAT WOULD BE DA BOMB!!!!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Guys,


The address for the meet is:


10393 Redwood Dr.

St. John, IN 46373


It's not on mapquest yet so I'm going to have to get another address that's in Mapquest and walk everyone in from there. I'll post EXACT directions and make it as easy as possible.


I cant wait until all of us are together. Saturday December 9th will be a day to remember for all of us.


Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


Cliffy's pal Arlan is expected here in Phoenix this week for a preview peek at BlendZilla, he is visiting family here in the area. Anyone similarly visiting here may call the day before and arrange to stop by, 480 368 7434 daytime.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Guys!
> 
> 
> Cliffy's pal Arlan is expected here in Phoenix this week for a preview peek at BlendZilla, he is visiting family here in the area. Anyone similarly visiting here may call the day before and arrange to stop by, 480 368 7434 daytime.



Hopefully he can pick up some good tips!!!










Things are creeping up VERY quickly to the meet! I have a BAD FEELING that the picture is going to be THAT GOOD!


Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


Did you start moving yet???


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hopefully he can pick up some good tips!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Things are creeping up VERY quickly to the meet! I have a BAD FEELING that the picture is going to be THAT GOOD!
> 
> 
> Cliffy



I will have to get some screenshots of my new OTA HD project that I setup this weekend. My Optoma H78DC3 on the Carada 9' wide brilliant white screen was bright and shockingly clear.


It was a whole new experience vs. playing .ts files which may have come from compressed sources or upscaled sources.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> 
> Did you start moving yet???



Oh God did I ever Tim. Things are a complete disaster right now and my back is KILLING ME. I HATE MOVING.










Think happy thoughts Cliff, think happy thoughts.........


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *mikecazzx* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I will have to get some screenshots of my new OTA HD project that I setup this weekend. My Optoma H78DC3 on the Carada 9' wide brilliant white screen was bright and shockingly clear.
> 
> 
> It was a whole new experience vs. playing .ts files which may have come from compressed sources or upscaled sources.



Sorry I missed you Mike. It's been like lucifer in my face for the last 2 days.........


Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff,

I think you need to visit one of those Tokyo health spas on the way over to my place. Easy off and on the interstate ........get very good deep rub boy.










Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I think you need to visit one of those Tokyo health spas on the way over to my place. Easy off and on the interstate ........get very good deep rub boy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Don't tempt me big dog.

















I thought I would be happy moving this time but I am miserable. There is crap EVERYWHERE and I CANT FIND ANYTHING. It wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't my second move in 3 months. All of my stuff that I packed 3 months ago was on the POD and all the electronics over at my buddies house so I'm pulling from multiple directions. It's put my mind to complete mush.


I have a butt load of stuff in the basement right now that I have to have organized by Tuesday because the drywall and wood for the theater is being delivered. As well, construction of the "partly" completed theater for the meet begins next week also.


One thing that is putting a smile on my face right now though..........


I'm looking at 2 freshly retubed G90's and 2 SVS PB12 Plus/2's that have been sorely missed.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Updated:


Art Sonneborn and his wife Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat (Props to this dude for rocking by my side and being one of my best FREINDS)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

James McClellan

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

mikecazz

Sandbagger (Kevin)

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)

This Spainiard is talking of coming...... (Antorsae) :^)

The mystery slot dude is backing out I think

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


I picked up a PS3 today so we'll be doing both HD DVD and Blue Ray for the meet. Arli (bomrat) is out in pheonix this weekend and stopped by Tim's today to check out the Blendzilla. Looking foward to his opinion..........










Hopefully the look on his face will be something like this:































Both of the G90's have been retubed now and the SMX Screen Material arrived as well. Once I get settled into the new house, we begin construction of the "make shift" theater for the meet. It's getting close.........


Cliffy


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


Arli from Chicago dropped in for a visit with his pal Adam; Arli (aka Bomrat) is Cliffy's sidekick for setting up the Chicago meet coming Dec. 9th, so Arli was wanting to see some BlendZilla setup moves, we devoted about twenty minutes to setup. I will let Arli describe his impressions of an hour watching BlendZilla.......


----------



## overclkr

Oh Yeah Baby, Broadband has Arrived.










I'm happier than a clam in s**t.










A pic of the new house at night:











View from the back of the new theater to the front of the basement:











The front wall of the theater will be in front of the furnace. Poses a bit of an issue for sound, but I think we can tame it........


Here is my make shift office:











Oh HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!







Here are some of my PRIZE posessions:











My babies are tucked safely away for now but I couldn't resist pulling the 2nd one out tonight to test for operation after retubing the green. In front of the G90's are my Klipsch KLF30's with matching center channel and my SVS PB12/Plus 2's.


Yummy.


----------



## overclkr

What is this lonely little minty Barco 1100 doing on my floor?











And LOW AND BEHOLD ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS YOUR G90 SHOULD LOOK WHILE YOUR SETTING HER UP:








































I got most of my crap together now for now and will be SOLEY dedicating my time to the meet from tonight foward.....


Let's ROCK.

















Cliffy


----------



## BamaSuxsaLot

Cliff-


I think your new house may be haunted


----------



## BamaSuxsaLot

Bottom window on right - looks like a Ghost CAT


----------



## overclkr

LOL. That's the dog wishing she was outside with me. :^)


Cliff


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> View from the back of the new theater to the front of the basement:



Cliff, great house... thats what I call brand spanking new!


I happen to notice the plumbing on your basement ceiling which looks very unusual compared to the houses in my neck of the woods. Looks like they've got the main stack running horizontal to your far wall instead of straight down into the ground. Cliff does your basement have other floor drains or do they just run the water heater overflow straight into the concrete? Because if you don't have any floor drains, I bet your basement concrete is a whole lot more level than mine. Could be they are building houses a little different today than when my neighborhood that went up 20 years ago.


Anyway, sorry to be off topic but I just had to ask cause the plumbing looks so different to me.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff, great house... thats what I call brand spanking new!
> 
> 
> I happen to notice the plumbing on your basement ceiling which looks very unusual compared to the houses in my neck of the woods. Looks like they've got the main stack running horizontal to your far wall instead of straight down into the ground. Cliff does your basement have other floor drains or do they just run the water heater overflow straight into the concrete? Because if you don't have any floor drains, I bet your basement concrete is a whole lot more level than mine. Could be they are building houses a little different today than when my neighborhood that went up 20 years ago.
> 
> 
> Anyway, sorry to be off topic but I just had to ask cause the plumbing looks so different to me.



Thanks big dog.










What you see is the drainage for all of the sinks, etc from up stairs which exits midwall out to the front. There is one drain in the floor for the HVAC and I believe that is it. Then in one corner I have the sump and another corner I have the ejector pump.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Got a WHOLE LOT done today........


Here is Bomrat installing 220V in my equipment room to provide electrical for the theater:











We also built the side walls (well, I was just a helper):











Entrance to the equipment room:











Entrance to the theater:


----------



## overclkr

Then I got this in the mail today:

























































BLENDZILLA!!!!!!!!!


----------



## overclkr

Also, Skylooker1 has offered to come over tomorrow and help us out. IT IS EL MUCHO APPRECIATED!!!!!!!!!

















MUCH MUCH more to get done.........


Cliff


----------



## Clarence

Everything's coming together quickly!


I wish I was closer... seeing the bare framing brings back such fond memories.


From the pics, the layout and scale looks similar to my HT... even the equipment closet.


Is Arli standing where the screen will be? You're doing an AT screen, but if you needed a couple of extra feet on the screen wall (especially for an extra-wide blended screen), it looks like you could fan out and widen the room once you got past that support pole. And then angle a little into the equipment room...


----------



## Gino AUS

You must be very excited now Cliff, brings me back to when I first laid eyes on my BlendZilla!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Everything's coming together quickly!
> 
> 
> I wish I was closer... seeing the bare framing brings back such fond memories.
> 
> 
> From the pics, the layout and scale looks similar to my HT... even the equipment closet.
> 
> 
> Is Arli standing where the screen will be? You're doing an AT screen, but if you needed a couple of extra feet on the screen wall (especially for an extra-wide blended screen), it looks like you could fan out and widen the room once you got past that support pole. And then angle a little into the equipment room...



NOW I AM GETTING EXCITED!!!!!































Finally I am in severe happy mode right now. I actually had a blast with Arli today framing. It's gonna move quick at this point.


He is standing in the back of the theater. The equipment room is in the back with the Seats. One thing Arli and I discussed today is how close to the door the Riser will be and looking at your pic is an awesome idea, but I don't want to intrude too much into the room next to the theater as it's small enough as it is at this point and I want to put a Pool Table in there along with a Popcorn Machine and a Kegerator. :^)


The screen is going to be WAY TOO BIG for the room, but hell, I don't care, as it will still be DA BOMB. The room for the meet will be about 14ft wide leaving about a foot on each side of the screen to the wall. I plan on putting up black fabric all around the screen and the walls next to it for light control.


I plan on making the room as dark as possible as to make the experience what it should be or at least close too. :^)


The On/Off CR is going to be through the roof dude. Were talking a MINIMUM of 11FL. Now that's what I'm talking about!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You must be very excited now Cliff, brings me back to when I first laid eyes on my BlendZilla!



Yep, believe it or not, I actually foamed at the mouth and at the same time had a severe erection.










JUST KIDDING.










Cliffy


----------



## skylooker1

Lookin Good....

Plan's takin shape..


MIKE


----------



## newbieDAN

Cliff,

is the 'zilla a loaner.....or have you made arrangements for it never to leave the basement?


Those speakers look ORSM!!!!

Dan


----------



## Gino AUS

Who is setting it up for you and how much time have you allocated to setting it up?


----------



## NIN74

Nice pics overclkr! I would love to see this when it's done.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *newbieDAN* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> is the 'zilla a loaner.....or have you made arrangements for it never to leave the basement?
> 
> 
> Those speakers look ORSM!!!!
> 
> Dan



Thanks Dan. Those speakers are one of the BEST purchases I have ever made. I crank the hell out of them and they hold up like Champs. It takes a bit of equalization to get it just right, but the sound is awesome. One of the best speaker series Klipsch has ever made.


The SVS Subs are absolutely awesome. Another one of the BEST purchases I have ever made.










Mr. Blender is just for the meet and has to go back although I'm currently thinking of ways to cripple myself to the point of not being able to call UPS for pickup.

















Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Who is setting it up for you and how much time have you allocated to setting it up?



This is the point to where I keep giggling to myself HOPING that I with Ken and Clarence and Arli can get the job done in 2 days.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NIN74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nice pics overclkr! I would love to see this when it's done.



Maybe you should ride on up with Clarence!!










Thanks big dog.










Cliff


----------



## NIN74

Well, sweden is little too far away. Would be nice to see.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *NIN74* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, sweden is little too far away. Would be nice to see.



DUH!!!!!










I thought it was Virginia........










Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This is the point to where I keep giggling to myself HOPING that I with Ken and Clarence and Arli can get the job done in 2 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Well if I can be of assitance let me know. I've setup the Twins 4 times from scratch now. Just off the top of my head:


1. get rough positioning first and rough geometry/optical

2. configure BlendZilla, then in combination with the DVX and physically moving the projectors around, finalise the projector positioning parallel to the screen. This is to get your overlap right

3. once your setup, you can do your full magnetics alignment etc etc...

4. important to get linearity geometry right, this is key, then make minor adjustments to get the overlap geometry right

5. finish your convergence, adjust the blendzone SE curve, then finish colorimetry


With the lot of you I'm sure you can finish it in a day! Takes me less than that but I wouldnt go into as much depth as you guys would, and I'm sure you'll all be very excited to get it up and running, it will be a great motivator.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well if I can be of assitance let me know. I've setup the Twins 4 times from scratch now. Just off the top of my head:
> 
> 
> 1. get rough positioning first and rough geometry/optical
> 
> 2. configure BlendZilla, then in combination with the DVX and physically moving the projectors around, finalise the projector positioning parallel to the screen. This is to get your overlap right
> 
> 3. once your setup, you can do your full magnetics alignment etc etc...
> 
> 4. important to get linearity geometry right, this is key, then make minor adjustments to get the overlap geometry right
> 
> 5. finish your convergence, adjust the blendzone SE curve, then finish colorimetry
> 
> 
> With the lot of you I'm sure you can finish it in a day! Takes me less than that but I wouldnt go into as much depth as you guys would, and I'm sure you'll all be very excited to get it up and running, it will be a great motivator.



Keep an eye on the thread next wednesday Gino. We might need you!










Cliff


----------



## Briands

I know you like your SVSs, but that "Equipment Room" is screaming IB...


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


More PIX! More PIX! I want to see everything!!!!!!!!!


----------



## welwynnick

A 14 foot screen at 11 ft-L?


Better take your shades!


Nick


----------



## overclkr

Man, we have been working our asses off..........


Here is the progress of the last couple of days:


View of the entrance










Here is the entrance behind the screen










Behind the screen


----------



## overclkr

Screen wall










Installed tubing, ran Cables (Front Speakers, Subs)










Electrical is in for the G90's (20 Amp Circuit), The Subs (20 Amp Circuit), The Equipment Room, and some lighting.










Equipment Room










Back of Theater


----------



## skylooker1

Screen wall looks great. Arli needs to do this full time. Heard the seats came in.


MIKE


----------



## overclkr

Things are coming along very well but damn am I tired. We have been pumping big time.


Tomorrow, we are building the screen based on the SMX Material and mounting it to the wall. Then we are bringing in the G90's, a couple of sources, HTPC, and the Blendzilla to figure out throw distance.


We figured that it will take pretty much all of the room to accomodate the throw distance required to run a 12ft wide screen so the G90's will probably be literally above your heads. It was very close, but I think we are going to be able to pull it off.


They are going on the ceiling so we have to build a bracket to mount the G90's to and be able to get around the duct work so they will be sitting a bit low, but should be alright.


Ok, enough for tonight...... I'm going to bed..........


Cliffy


----------



## skylooker1

I'll have the ductwork on Monday. Are you going to route under the existing?



MIKE


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skylooker1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Screen wall looks great. Arli needs to do this full time. Heard the seats came in.
> 
> 
> MIKE



Pretty damn nice huh? I was jumping up and down on it and it would not budge. Perfectly level and strong as hell.......










Yep. Seats are here but I've only popped open the top of one of the boxes and glimpsed inside. Too many other things going on......










Check your PM.


Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I got something really cool in the mail today:



Incredibles is out on HDDVD??!!!







I love that movie, where can I buy it?


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Cliff,

I'm excited for you. Your theater will be the way to escape from that crap out there and not need that pesky drug rehab thing.










Art


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


Cliffy and pals spent the afternoon mounting the screen fabric to the wooden aperture, and also learning the DVX controls, and are now determining the throw distance needed for each G90 to fill the height of the screen and the height of the tube phosphors without running off the edge, it came to about 120" of throw for the twelve foot screen width. This gives a throw ratio of about 0.84 for the largest image on 16:9 in the least throw distance. The image width will likely be pulled in some, this is very preliminary:


----------



## bomrat

Kill Me!!!


----------



## Sonynut

DAMN! I wish i could be there. I'd love to see what a REAL CRT(actually 2 of course) can do. Might jumpstart me on saving up for an upgrade, as I have been stuck in the Sony 127x realm for going on 5 years. Even if I could hitch a ride out there with someone closer thats attending, the date just doesn't work for me.... PLZ post alot of pics if you can of the event


----------



## overclkr

Oh hell yeah today saw some Serious progress. Mike Cazz dropped by to find out he'd be here for a while.......



















Arli is holding up the screen frame that he built. I can't thank Arli enough for sticking by my side the way he has day after day plugging away. His craftsmanship scores an 11 out of 10. The dude is SMART AS HELL.










You ROCK ARLI.































We yanked out the SMX Material and laid it out on the floor and decided first to try and do a "wrap around" to the frame.











That didn't work out so well so after a call to Ruben his suggestion was to fasten the screen to the frame on the front instead of wrapping around. We then decided well, let's just put it on the wall and fasten the screen that way since we are fastening it on the front.


----------



## overclkr

WORKED OUT PERFECT. Check it:


----------



## overclkr

And my Personal Favorite:











All I have to say about this material with preliminary projection and overall quality is HOLY CRAP. This is BY FAR THE BEST SCREEN MATERIAL I have EVER seen.































This screen is DA BOMB in EVERY WAY. I CANNOT WAIT UNTIL we post screenshots. I will let the results of the meet speek for themselves on this one.


----------



## SmX

Looking good Cliff! Question, are you putting a center channel behind the SmX screen for the show? If so, (as you may already know) the center brace is going to be in the way.


Ruben


----------



## overclkr

Big thanks also goes to Mike Cazz for dropping by and wasting his entire day to help us. You DA MAN MIKE.


We hooked up the Zilla and got preliminary throw out the way after my G90's complained about sending 1200P to them but a quick call to Ken Whitcomb straightened out this one. You DA MAN as well Ken.
























Tim also fielded quite a few calls from me today and his patience has paid off. Thank's much Tim for the help big dog!

















Thanks to Mike helping us, we also got this done today:











OH HELL YEAH BABY!!!!!!! THERE UP!!!!!!!!!


After the fourth attempt on the first G90 to get it to the ceiling, Arli looked and yelled "Can we take the ***king lenses off now!!!!!!!!!!"


Needless to say, after I abliged, we accomplished our goal. Even Mike was to the point of no return.........































More soon......


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Looking good Cliff! Question, are you putting a center channel behind the SmX screen for the show? If so, (as you may already know) the center brace is going to be in the way.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Yep Big Dog, it's coming out. No brace is even needed anywhere in the frame. The tension we are getting is AWESOME to say the least. My SVS PB12 Plus/2's are really gonna put this screen to the test and I'm looking foward to it.


The uniformity I'm seeing on the screen so far from the PJ's is OUTSTANDING and not only that but it has just ENOUGH punch to make it PERFECT.


I CANNOT WAIT to see flicks on this bad boy after the projectors are calibrated......










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I'm excited for you. Your theater will be the way to escape from that crap out there and not need that pesky drug rehab thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



Get ready my Northern Bud....... it's coming.....










I will have to say that you WILL be PLEASANTLY suprised.










So what kind of Wine should I buy for the meet Big Dog?


Cliffy


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yep Big Dog, it's coming out. No brace is even needed anywhere in the frame. The tension we are getting is AWESOME to say the least. My SVS PB12 Plus/2's are really gonna put this screen to the test and I'm looking foward to it.
> 
> 
> The uniformity I'm seeing on the screen so far from the PJ's is OUTSTANDING and not only that but it has just ENOUGH punch to make it PERFECT.
> 
> 
> I CANNOT WAIT to see flicks on this bad boy after the projectors are calibrated......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



Coolio Inglesias, I aim to please










I would wrap those big silver air ducts above the screen with some black velvet or something. Light from the projector and screen may bounce off it and kill your image.


Ruben


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Coolio Inglesias, I aim to please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would wrap those big silver air ducts above the screen with some black velvet or something. Light from the projector and screen may bounce off it and kill your image.
> 
> 
> Ruben



I purchased 160 YARDS of flat black cloth that will help big time for the whole theater, but I decided against the velvet cause right now, well, money is playing a factor, but they will be covered.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> "Coolio Inglesias"
> 
> 
> Ruben



Me likes the words you just added to my dictionary big dog.










Cliffy


----------



## voicecoils

Still taking reservations for the meet ?










I'm in the US at the moment, had planned to be in NY but ended up visiting family in Milwaukee, WI first which means I'm here till Dec 13th. Would love to see the 'zilla and G90 blend. Haven't seen either devices in action before!


If I ever get to Gino's setup when I'm back in Australia, it would be interesting to see how the G90 vs 9500LC's compare both in a 'zilla blend. Not sure how I'd get there but doesn't look too far by the maps.google


----------



## Gino AUS

that would be cool to see the comparison between a G90 vs modded Ultra blend... so wish I was there!


Cliff, Art, Ken - Please post your thoughts on G90 blend vs stack


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


How much headroom under the G90s, and how much room to the back wall?


----------



## Gino AUS

What aspect ratio is your screen? What aspect are you setting up the blend?


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Dam Son... now that's what I call progress :0, turned my back on the thead while working on my theater, and BAM you take it to another notch.


Dude I look forward to see you and everyone else this coming weekend.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliffy
> 
> 
> How much headroom under the G90s, and how much room to the back wall?



Tim, I'm 6'2 and there is about maybe 2 inches above my head to the bottom of the G90's. There is 4ft from the back of the G90 to the wall.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What aspect ratio is your screen? What aspect are you setting up the blend?



Gino,


It's standard 16:9. From what I understand, I need to set the zilla to 4:3 per projector. I'm running the zilla at 1200P.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dam Son... now that's what I call progress :0, turned my back on the thead while working on my theater, and BAM you take it to another notch.
> 
> 
> Dude I look forward to see you and everyone else this coming weekend.



Look foward to having you Don and thanks for your help today.


Cliffy


----------



## Phil Smith

Man Cliffy, I hope it's just the way it looks in the photo and not the way it is in real life. There doesn't seem to be much lumber holding the G90s up, and what little lumber is involved, doesn't appear to be attached to the ceiling joists very well.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gino,
> 
> 
> It's standard 16:9. From what I understand, I need to set the zilla to 4:3 per projector. I'm running the zilla at 1200P.
> 
> 
> Cliff



That's going to be some overlap... 4:3 each projector going to 16:9? I think that's 1/3 overlap.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That's going to be some overlap... 4:3 each projector going to 16:9? I think that's 1/3 overlap.



Maybe that would explain why so much of the image is going off of the left side of the screen.


This has been a BAD BAD BAD BAD DAY........











I hope that the throw is right because I will be pissed if I have to pull down the PJ's and move them.......










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Smith* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man Cliffy, I hope it's just the way it looks in the photo and not the way it is in real life. There doesn't seem to be much lumber holding the G90s up, and what little lumber is involved, doesn't appear to be attached to the ceiling joists very well.



It's the way it looks Phil trust me. Arli and I were swinging off of that thing like monkeys at the same time and it's not moving. I wouldn't risk it if I didn't think they would hold not only for myself, but to mention the peps that are coming.....


Cliff


----------



## slartibartfasst

Cliff,


You should be fine as long as the centers of your green tubes are equidistant from a line perpendicular to the horizontal (and vertical) center of your screen.


Edit: By the way, it's amazing to see the progress you've made on the theater. What is your seating configuration going to be?


----------



## Gino AUS

As I said earlier Cliff, once you have projectors positioned in the right place, the rest is a breeze. (as opposed to setting up a blend where the projectors arent in the perfect position)


PM me if I can be of further help.


----------



## RVonse

Cliff,

I sure love your choice of screen material it looks fantastic! Actually having your front speakers behind the picture, thats what I call first class. But there is one thing I was wondering about. Will the screen material move at all from sound pressure of the speakers behind it? From the looks of your speakers it looks like a lot of sound pressure and thats a good thing but I just wonder if the screen will move from it.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Man I tell you I stop to make a door jamb, drill some door knob holes, and when I come back there are a ton of posts ...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> 
> You should be fine as long as the centers of your green tubes are equidistant from a line perpendicular to the horizontal (and vertical) center of your screen.
> 
> 
> Edit: By the way, it's amazing to see the progress you've made on the theater. What is your seating configuration going to be?



Hehe, didn't you mention something about wanting a pic of Arli and I swinging like monkeys on the PJ mounts?????










There will be 2 rows of three seats in the theater with the first row exactly one screen width back from the final screen configuration which will be 10ft wide......


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I sure love your choice of screen material it looks fantastic! Actually having your front speakers behind the picture, thats what I call first class. But there is one thing I was wondering about. Will the screen material move at all from sound pressure of the speakers behind it? From the looks of your speakers it looks like a lot of sound pressure and thats a good thing but I just wonder if the screen will move from it.



This screen material rocks. I cant wait to get a full setup going so I can take pics.


I don't think I'll have issues even with this 12ft wide screen as it's tensioned pretty good and it's pretty thick. I'll know for sure soon.......










Cliff


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This screen material rocks. I cant wait to get a full setup going so I can take pics.
> 
> 
> I don't think I'll have issues even with this 12ft wide screen as it's tensioned pretty good and it's pretty thick. I'll know for sure soon.......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff



If you put any sub that moves massive amounts of air behind any AT screen it is going to vibrate. Even a window screen will move with a sub behind it. The SmX screen won't be moved by your main speakers but if the sub is moving allot of air like mine does, than I wouldn't put it directly behind the screen unless you can put it a foot or more away from it. Anyway, give it a try, it may work fine.


Ruben


----------



## Art Sonneborn

I have four of the Seaton Submersives behind my screen. Yes some air moves but after a while you realize that the times the screen moves a lot it is during scenes in films when tons of stuff is moving around in the picture , so is your chair , the floor your feet are on , your hair and clothing. I used to get worked up but no longer.


Art


----------



## jtnfoley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If you put any sub that moves massive amounts of air behind any AT screen it is going to vibrate. Even a window screen will move with a sub behind it. The SmX screen won't be moved by your main speakers but if the sub is moving allot of air like mine does, than I wouldn't put it directly behind the screen unless you can put it a foot or more away from it. Anyway, give it a try, it may work fine.
> 
> 
> Ruben



Gasket the equipment room door and get some 18" drivers...


----------



## William Seaward

I have my subs behind my screen and I don't notice it moving that much at all. Like Art stated, when everything else is moving... you don't really notice it that much at all... so this isn't a real issue at all.


----------



## antorsae

Now the question is: will it move the projectors enough to make the blend zone visible during the shake-up?


Too bad I finally cannot attend... so pleaseee let me know!!


This is the configuration I will likely be running: Genelec HTS6 sub + other LCR Genelec spearkers + SMX screen.


Have fun!!!!


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Andres


How does your room progress there?


----------



## antorsae

In one word: slow... Sound isolation is there, floor is there, raiser for 2nd row is there; in the coming weeks I'll have the suspended ceiling and sound-proofing installed, everything is going to be absolutely black or very very dark.


I finally ordered the chairs from the US so they'll take a while to show up. The only equipment left to arrive is some of the Genelec audio stuff as well as the new tubes I got from Terry and the MP V2 modded boards.


I plan to move in the new house by end of January. I expect the HT room to be watchable then but some items (likely the HT chairs) will come in later I fear...


Other than that, the expectation is killing me... I really wanted to go to the HT meet there, I am sure it will be a blast...










Cliff... one question: do you plan to compare stacking to blending? or is this going to be a blending-only demo?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff... one question: do you plan to compare stacking to blending? or is this going to be a blending-only demo?



Andres,


Are you trying to put Arli, Ken, Clarence, and I into an early grave?










She will be blending only for the meet.










That sucks that your not coming. I was really looking foward to meeting you.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Got the walls up today that will be finished for the meet. Time to bust out the black paint I bought...............















































Cliff


----------



## CaspianM

holly sh**. Looking good. I like the twin.


----------



## skylooker1

You slackers!!!


Man it looks good. See you went with an exterior door behind the screen (insulated). No riser, are they hanging that low, or to far back? If you guys need anything give me a buzz.


MIKE


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Dam Son I thought I was busting ballz on my theater...


Cliff it looks really nice you should have the board around 10:30 am tomorrow lrt mr know who old girl preforms.


----------



## Clarence

Wow! You guys are really making progress!


Keep working at that pace and there won't be anything left for me to do except drink beer and watch movies when I get there on Wednesday!


Black paint is a good idea. We could even paint the concrete slab if you want to.


Are you going to do a quick coat of mud and tape on the seams?


Cranked any tunes yet?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


I sent along a fairly complete setup guide, once the right throw is set the rest should go OK.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *skylooker1* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> You slackers!!!
> 
> 
> Man it looks good. See you went with an exterior door behind the screen (insulated). No riser, are they hanging that low, or to far back? If you guys need anything give me a buzz.
> 
> 
> MIKE



Hi Mike. I dont think I'll be doing a riser for the meet due to the fact that the screen is so damn huge that I'll probably have to do a row of 4 theater seats and leave space behind for standing room if needed. Thanks for the offer of help. It might be needed on wednesday if we have to pull the projectors down........


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Dam Son I thought I was busting ballz on my theater...
> 
> 
> Cliff it looks really nice you should have the board around 10:30 am tomorrow lrt mr know who old girl preforms.



You got it man. Thanks so much. I owe you one.


Like I told you before, I wont run it in the projector the original board failed in just in case.......


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow! You guys are really making progress!
> 
> 
> Keep working at that pace and there won't be anything left for me to do except drink beer and watch movies when I get there on Wednesday!
> 
> 
> Black paint is a good idea. We could even paint the concrete slab if you want to.
> 
> 
> Are you going to do a quick coat of mud and tape on the seams?
> 
> 
> Cranked any tunes yet?



Tonight big dog, I'm painting the drywall in the theater and behind the screen black as well as the floor in both the screen room and the theater with the help of my HOTTIE WIFE. I'm trying to convince her to paint neked, but I don't think she is going for it.

























No mud or tape as I'm doing 2 layers of drywall in the entire theater including the screenwall room.


HOPEFULLY I'LL BE FINALLY HOOKING UP THE KLIPSCH's AND SUBS TOMORROW!!!!































Cant wait till you get here! Ken is coming wednesday as well hopefully!


It's been an extremely rough road big dog, but I think we are going to actually be able to pull this off!










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kill Me!!!



MUHWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA I AINT DONE WITH YOU YET!!!!!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *voicecoils* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Still taking reservations for the meet ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the US at the moment, had planned to be in NY but ended up visiting family in Milwaukee, WI first which means I'm here till Dec 13th. Would love to see the 'zilla and G90 blend. Haven't seen either devices in action before!
> 
> 
> If I ever get to Gino's setup when I'm back in Australia, it would be interesting to see how the G90 vs 9500LC's compare both in a 'zilla blend. Not sure how I'd get there but doesn't look too far by the maps.google



Not sure how the hell I missed this but your more than welcome to come. I had a couple of drop outs so looks good. Milwaukee to my house is about 3 hours so it's not too bad if you want to come down!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

Updated List:


Art Sonneborn and his wife Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat (Props to this dude for rocking by my side and being one of my best FREINDS)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

mikecazz

Sandbagger (Kevin)

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)

voicecoils

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


Guys and gals, I will be posting directions from all directions later this week so please keep watching the thread!!!!!!































Cliffy


----------



## overclkr

I put the boy to work tonight..........



















I see black starting........ mmmmm........ nothing like black in a theater........


----------



## overclkr

Now I am starting to feel good....... It's all coming together........


Sources for the meet:


Toshiba HD DVD

Sony PS3 Blue Ray (HDMI to A)

JVC 5U (HDMI to A)

HTPC

XBOX 360 for .TS and HD DVD Playback

Yammi SDI Modded by Gary S2300MKII DVD/SACD/DVD-A

DVDO-VP30 w/SDI Mod/ABT DI Card

And of course, THE BLENDZILLA!!!!!


I have HD Material flowing out of my rear end right now SCREAMING to be played for the meet........


Oh BOY OH BOY!!!! HERE WE GO!!!!!!!!


----------



## bomrat

isn't there child labor laws for this kind of thing?







how about friend labor laws...


its goth...


see you in the morning, oh crap its morning already, must sleep damn pager keeps going off every 20 minutes, stupid hp servers, out of memory, out of cpu, out of disk. out of my mind. any body have a 12 gauge pump i can borrow, i have a SAP server i want to rectify some errors...


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Bomrat I feel your pain I had a rash of HP Server BS on monday. And as for SAP... gah SAP is a pain in my butt were having issues with all the new systems, I should just start doing the dam development myself, grrr.


Man I knew all the stock I bought in Black paint would pay off someday  j/k


Cliff if you get one of those boards order let me know, I sent the information on to you in email. I think I'm going to buy a spare set of boards, for emergencies like this.


----------



## overclkr

Updated List:


Art Sonneborn and his wife Angela

Ken Whitcomb

Bomrat (Props to this dude for rocking by my side and being one of my best FREINDS)

Walt (aspec2)

Mike (skylooker1)

William Seaward

Don KELLOGG

yborstrip

mikecazz

Sandbagger (Kevin)

Clarence (WE ARE GONNA SO PARTY)

Casey Mershon

Ryan from the Little Guys Home Theater

John Gannon (Tentative)

Kipp Jones and Scott (Tentative)

voicecoils

Mike Jacobs

and FO SHO, My Hottie Wife......


----------



## overclkr

Can you say LIGHT CONTROL??????

















































Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

get the board in light her up







hehe


Well Cliff you gone and done it I'm ordering 4 yards of the SMX.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


Looks like a bloody Coal Mine down there.......hehehe.......


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Black Hole Sun theater???


----------



## aspec2

Cliff


Looking forward to Saturday. Going to stay at the kid's Friday night and see you Saturday. I came past your place a week ago Sunday. I was coming from Dee Twa and avoiding the traffic around Chi so I took 41 south past St. John. Lots of new housing out there.


Walt


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aspec2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> Looking forward to Saturday. Going to stay at the kid's Friday night and see you Saturday. I came past your place a week ago Sunday. I was coming from Dee Twa and avoiding the traffic around Chi so I took 41 south past St. John. Lots of new housing out there.
> 
> 
> Walt



Oh yeah, it's exploded big time. Looking foward to you coming over Walt!


I'm thinking that we'll be starting around 3PM.


Cliff


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, it's exploded big time. Looking foward to you coming over Walt!
> 
> 
> I'm thinking that we'll be starting around 3PM.
> 
> 
> Cliff



So is the Blendzilla show December 6th or Saturday now? I got lost.


Ruben


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So is the Blendzilla show December 6th or Saturday now? I got lost.
> 
> 
> Ruben



The main Blendzilla event is Saturday, Dec 9th.


But the pre-party starts on the 6th (tomorrow) when I arrive


----------



## dominical2

Should be fun ! Wish I could be there guy's !!!










Tom


----------



## bomrat

CLARENCE!!!!! can't wait to meet you... need 1000 cc's beer stat.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CLARENCE!!!!! can't wait to meet you... need 1000 cc's beer stat.


----------



## overclkr

All I have to say is holy sccchhiitt...........


Ryan from the Little Guys is coming over Friday night to set up the Pearl. This night is EXACTLY what I thought it would be........










Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cliff;


I'm on the road today on my way to Chicago to fix another ID10T error. If I get out at a fair time would you mind if I sung by to check out the pregame on the theater










Clarence I can't wait to finally meet you. What is your favorite beer other than FREE


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff;
> 
> 
> I'm on the road today on my way to Chicago to fix another ID10T error. If I get out at a fair time would you mind if I sung by to check out the pregame on the theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clarence I can't wait to finally meet you. What is your favorite beer other than FREE



Come on through big dog. Ken, Clarence, and Arli are coming as well.


Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cool, I'm half way there.. I can't believe they were going to have me drive to Chicago to fix this issue. A vp lost a wireless connection when he went home..... HE DOESN"T HAVE WIRELESS AT HOME..... This is the second time I have had to act on something like this. I once flew to to the east coast because someones wireless dropped, almost the same thing.


I fixed the the issue via phone, currently I'm at a rest stop in Michigan, I'll be there in about 2 hours, grabing lunch at the moment, have to stay fat. hehe


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cool, I'm half way there.. I can't believe they were going to have me drive to Chicago to fix this issue. A vp lost a wireless connection when he went home..... HE DOESN"T HAVE WIRELESS AT HOME..... This is the second time I have had to act on something like this. I once flew to to the east coast because someones wireless dropped, almost the same thing.
> 
> 
> I fixed the the issue via phone, currently I'm at a rest stop in Michigan, I'll be there in about 2 hours, grabing lunch at the moment, have to stay fat. hehe



You going to the call first or to me? You realize if you come, I'm putting you to work right??????










Cliff


----------



## sandbagger

Cliff


I was wondering if I could stop by a bit early(12-1ish you can put me and my buddy to work)? I am staying the night in Kalamazoo since I will be drinking all day at Bells brewery (annual eccentric day party)and then a buddy is picking me up and driving out in the morning( depends on how hung over I am). I also have another GTG ( more audio oriented) up almost to wisconson. When I said I would do both of these I thought both were in chicago.... at totaly oposite ends. It looks like a 2hr drive over from Kzoo and almost 2 up to the other GTG.


Also since I will be at the brewery anyone need any Bells beer ? www.bellsbeer.com they sell everything they make and in 6's cases and 1/4 1/2 barells


I know they just stoped brining it into Il


if you need beer just PM me before I leave friday morning to not polute the thread


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Kevin get your butt over here the we could use your assistance... It only took me about 1 1/2 hours but then again I travel pretty fast.


----------



## sandbagger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kevin get your butt over here the we could use your assistance... It only took me about 1 1/2 hours but then again I travel pretty fast.



Don

you have to remember its another 1:45 min for me to get to Kzoo from my place.....

And as far as you traveling at a good pace I just did detroit to GrandJunction Co in well ....... lets say I had an AVERAGE of 80mph(that included gas/food ect)


----------



## Clarence

We are having SO much fun with this!


Ken, Arli, and Don left hours ago to get some sleep like sensible people, but Cliff and I kept playing and did a rough setup so we could watch some blended 12' wide HD:


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Clarence what is this sleep you talk of...???  No more than 20 minutes into my drive home I got called by the UK.


Cliff thank you for letting me stop by I had a blast. I only wish I could have cleared the rest of the week to help bring this to fruition. It was hard for me to leave. Your setup is really coming together nicely, can't wait.


Clarence it was nice to finally meet you, I should grab some insanity wings on the way down to the meet













Anyway Cliff If you get in a pinch and need assistance you have my numbers, emails, bat signal.... let me know.


----------



## Don_Kellogg




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandbagger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Don
> 
> you have to remember its another 1:45 min for me to get to Kzoo from my place.....
> 
> And as far as you traveling at a good pace I just did detroit to GrandJunction Co in well ....... lets say I had an AVERAGE of 80mph(that included gas/food ect)




I'm just messing with you








I'm more like a low fly jet 80 mph will get you run over the closer you get to IL. Man there were allot of police on highway today, wish the Accord had stealth mode haha...


----------



## Don_Kellogg

*Modded Sony G90 DF Board*


Clarence here are some pics of the mod on my DF board Cliff has in one of his G90's


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man there were allot of police on highway today



Yep, I counted probably 10 each in PA, OH, and IN today. One of them did a U-turn to follow me... I hate that sinking feeling as you watch the rerview mirror waiting for the lights. He just followed me for a few miles. I was on the phone with Cliff when I drove by a radar sign that said "Speed Limit is 55. Your speed is 88"... I wanted to loop back to see if I could get a higher score.


Here's Cliff with a Wonka squirrel (Cliff is on the left)... he's been without his projector for 3 months and now he has a blend... every 30 seconds he either says "WOW!" or "[email protected]#% yeah" or "big dog, that's a screenshot right there"...


----------



## Clarence

I woke up exactly 24 hours ago to drive here



















Cliff's wife came down a few hours ago and yelled at us, so Cliff unplugged the subs


----------



## Gino AUS

Those are some pretty nice shots... I take it the BlendZilla software was very easy to work out? It's great isnt it!


How much further have you got to go on the setup... and what are you running... 1200P?


I think I can only just notice the blendzone, looks slightly softer at screen centre, and the blue background in the last 2 shots has a slight haze on it.


When you guys are done, mind posting a pic of just a blank white screen?


----------



## Gino AUS

What are your intial thoughts on the amount of light output compared to a stack, and also sharpness.. as one would assume it would be sharper where there isnt 6 tubes requiring to be perfectly converged.


----------



## Haroon Malik

Brilliant pictures!










Fun thread to read.










Congratulations on the Blendzilla set-up.


----------



## Poorbeek

WOW this is f$ck##g big screen size. Especially when you see someone standing in front of the screen. The PQ is already very good.


Mm i wish i had room and money to blend my 2 Vidikron Vision One's





















.


My set up will be in the living room so 2 Vidikrons will be not excepted by the wife







.


Also the living room wall is not big enough to also place my Infinity IRS Omega speakers.


have fun and please keep posting pics.


Paul


----------



## Don_Kellogg

hehe that's a big squirrel good thing two of the biggest CRT NUTZZZZ are there. Watch out Cliff it's going for your head...


Man looks like you guys tweaked and tweaked all night, loooookinngggg Gooooodd....



Hmmm blend software easy to work with, no comment from me.


----------



## dropzone7

You guys make me sick! I can't even get my lowly projector set up and here you guys are splitting the CRT atom! Bahhhh! Yeah, I'm just jealous, very jealous!







Keep the pictures coming, looks like great fun! Clarence, is it just the white background in that shot or have you gotten a bit "meatier" since last we met? I know I have!


----------



## Chuchuf

Pics look great Cliff. But I'm sure they don't do it justice.

Wish I could be there. Have fun.


Terry


----------



## antorsae

Guys! Those screenshots look amazing... and considering that both Clarence and Cliff look to be "big" (at least compared to me







), the screen surely is impressive!


Cliff... what are the chances of keeping the Blendzilla???
























Regards!


----------



## bomrat

he he, life sized hale barry... it looks great. get some sleep man.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Nah the camera adds the pounds both Cliff and Clarence are strapping young bucks. Maybe it is the picture from the G90s, they so amazing it makes everything else pale in comparison?


I'll stand in front of the screen next time, my body structure these days is pretty close to 16:9, haha.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Nah the camera adds the pounds both Cliff and Clarence are strapping young bucks. Maybe it is the picture from the G90s, they so amazing it makes everything else pale in comparison?
> 
> 
> I'll stand in front of the screen next time, my body structure these days is pretty close to 16:9, haha.



Ha ha!







Yeah, I wouldn't want my glorious body shining in the light of those G90's but it's hard to miss Cliff and Clarence's sh!t eating grins in those shots!







I would be doing the happy dance too!


----------



## dropzone7

I'm curious, with the size of the room and all of that equipment running is it noticeabley warmer in there? Besides all of the hot air coming from your visitors that is! Also, what is the power consumption and are you running any kind of power conditioning or UPS equipment?


----------



## RAPTORHT




> Quote:
> I'm curious, with the size of the room and all of that equipment running is it noticeabley warmer in there? Besides all of the hot air coming from your visitors that is! Also, what is the power consumption and are you running any kind of power conditioning or UPS equipment?



Good question. Also, do you have a dedicated circuit for the PJs?


It's looking sweet Cliff! Congrats and YOU SUCK x 2


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Some where along the lines of 13 x 15 ' I beleive it was so dark in there with all the black paint. Dark Side of the moon was making me feel like I was tripp'in the life fanastic










On the topic of happy dance, we we're doing allot of that yesterday. Well it was more of the Rodney Dangerfield Caddy Shack dance... It started out as insanity dancing, but after Ken help iron some issues out, it turned into full blown Caddy Shack happy dance.


When it's all said and done I think it will evolve into the Pulp Fiction dance. YEAHHHH BABY...


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Some where along the lines of 13 x 15 ' I beleive it was so dark in there with all the black paint. Dark Side of the moon was making me feel like I was tripp'in the life fanastic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the topic of happy dance, we we're doing allot of that yesterday. Well it was more of the Rodney Dangerfield Caddy Shack dance... It started out as insanity dancing, but after Ken help iron some issues out, it turned into full blown Caddy Shack happy dance.
> 
> 
> When it's all said and done I think it will evolve into the Pulp Fiction dance. YEAHHHH BABY...



Good times! Any chance those ladies are going to get up before noon-thirty? Ah, the good old days, party all night and sleep all day...


----------



## Don_Kellogg

They wake when they wake and they do what they do.. you can't control free spirits like those two... I'm sure they will Cliff is hell bent on get this done.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How much further have you got to go on the setup... and what are you running... 1200P?
> 
> 
> I think I can only just notice the blendzone, looks slightly softer at screen centre, and the blue background in the last 2 shots has a slight haze on it.



I lost the wireless connection on my laptop so I'll just reply from Cliff's PC...


We're still running 1024 right now. Cliff ran into some retrace settings with 1200p yesterday before I arrived. It works fine on the Marquee, but the G90 is different. Sounds similar to the retrace issue I'm seeing from the X360's VGA 1080P.


Anyways, I want to give 1200P and [email protected] another shot today.


We only did a quick blendzone setup on the projectors last night. We cheated and used some zone, including on Green, to get the grids aligned. Cliff didn't mess with any of the blendzilla settings. Arli showed me some of them yesterday... so I'll experiment later today... lots of controls available.


Gino has a good eye... the blend zone is still slightly visible, especially with something like a bright background. You can see a touch of it under Wonka's chin.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clarence, is it just the white background in that shot or have you gotten a bit "meatier" since last we met? I know I have!



My untucked shirt does make me look a little jollier than usual. Admittedly, instead of 6-pack abs, I've got more a 12-pack on the waistline. I'm 6'1"... Cliff's probably 6'2"... I'll see if I can get Cliff's kids in a screenshot... that'll really make the screen look as huge as it is. We were looking pretty disheveled in the wee hours.










I'm gonna to build a velvet-covered frame for the screen today to cover the staples and get the geometry exactly to 1.85 - this SMX acoustically-transparent woven screen material is really nice stuff.


-Clarence


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Dam it wish I was there fun things happening...


You know I was going to wait until the setup was complete, but I can't hold it in. That SMX screen material is amazing I've seen allot of screens, and allot of really expensive screens in my time. I don't get hyped by every little thing new thing on the market either. However that SMX material is amazing, the sound quaility is so clear coming through the screen, and the image is well stunning to say the least.


I know which way I'm going, Stewart is a dam good material and should be for the price but I reallly like this solution and I'm extremely impressed by it. Dollar for Dollar it's just amazing how much you get for such a small investment, and honestly I don't have calibration lenses for Eyes but it's equal to or greater than Stewart in my book.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


My best results setting the SE curve on the DVX is in 45% as shown, try that.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Chuchuf* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pics look great Cliff. But I'm sure they don't do it justice.
> 
> Wish I could be there. Have fun.
> 
> 
> Terry



Wish you could hang to Terry. Thanks to you and Don, this meet is going to be possible.


Thanks so much Terry for helping me find my issue............










Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

No Problem.. My company just called I'm on next flight to Clarence's stumping grounds. They want me there for the weekend but I'm going to do everything I can to make them fly me back for your meet










But if so some stupid reason I can't make it back, know that I'm there in spirit...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> No Problem.. My company just called I'm on next flight to Clarence's stumping grounds. They want me there for the weekend but I'm going to do everything I can to make them fly me back for your meet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if so some stupid reason I can't make it back, know that I'm there in spirit...



DUDE THAT BLOWS...........


I hope you can make it back........










Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Just awesome !!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait for Saturday.

















Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandbagger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> I was wondering if I could stop by a bit early(12-1ish you can put me and my buddy to work)? I am staying the night in Kalamazoo since I will be drinking all day at Bells brewery (annual eccentric day party)and then a buddy is picking me up and driving out in the morning( depends on how hung over I am). I also have another GTG ( more audio oriented) up almost to wisconson. When I said I would do both of these I thought both were in chicago.... at totaly oposite ends. It looks like a 2hr drive over from Kzoo and almost 2 up to the other GTG.
> 
> 
> Also since I will be at the brewery anyone need any Bells beer ? www.bellsbeer.com they sell everything they make and in 6's cases and 1/4 1/2 barells
> 
> 
> I know they just stoped brining it into Il
> 
> 
> if you need beer just PM me before I leave friday morning to not polute the thread



Thanks for the beer offer. We'd love a couple samples!


Your more than welcome to show up early if you like.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just awesome !!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait for Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art


































Me hope you like Mr. Sonneborn..........


Cliffy


----------



## dropzone7

What's going on now guys?!? This is like watching internet porn or something. I have to live vicariously through you guys since I can't be there! More screen shots!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What's going on now guys?!? This is like watching internet porn or something. I have to live vicariously through you guys since I can't be there! More screen shots!



Kids are watching Ice Age 2 on Blue Ray right now so afterward hopefully Clarence and I will get some time to take some more shots later!!!


We watched the airplane scene from Superman Returns on HD DVD earlier and it blew us away............


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


The meet approaches and the excitement is building! I would like to thank Cliff and Arli for taking a very serious leap of faith and plowing ahead with this project, overcoming a number of hurdles in the process including not much sleep, congrats Big Dawg! We may still have John Gannon there, I phoned him an hour ago and he wants very much to be there.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We're still running 1024 right now.....
> 
> 
> ....Gino has a good eye... the blend zone is still slightly visible, especially with something like a bright background. You can see a touch of it under Wonka's chin.



It's interesting that you guys are so impressed with running 1024p for now, when before most of you who havent seen blendzilla were complaining about missing out on the extra 56 lines for 1080p. Are you seeing horrible scanlines at this resolution or is it acceptable?


I only have a good eye for those things because I know what problems I had to overcome while setting up!


As I've never seen a stack before, what are your initial thoughts on how blending compares to a stack?? light output? sharpness? etc...


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We are having SO much fun with this!
> 
> 
> Ken, Arli, and Don left hours ago to get some sleep like sensible people, but Cliff and I kept playing and did a rough setup so we could watch some blended 12' wide HD:



HOLY MOTHER OF BABY JESUS!

That picture is looking CRRAZZy!


DAMN!


Cant wait -


----------



## Don_Kellogg

man what a day Cliff, I landed in Maryland within 1 hour I got called Get here ASAP flew me Milwaukee (first class







) so looks like I will be there. Man this year has really been something.


But hey I'll be there...


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you guys are so impressed with running 1024p for now, when before most of you who havent seen blendzilla were complaining about missing out on the extra 56 lines for 1080p. Are you seeing horrible scanlines at this resolution or is it acceptable?
> 
> 
> I only have a good eye for those things because I know what problems I had to overcome while setting up!



What is interesting and what I did not expect is that.......it seems that G90s do not feature Short Retrace, which may be needed to accomodate 1080p and 1200p without losing pixels in wrapping of pixels during the retrace time of each scan line in the raster. I am certain that the Sony people had never imagined the desireability of that feature in a home series product but.....here it becomes desired in this application.......


----------



## kal

Holy mother of god! That' one HUGE screen! And the pic is sharp!



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0



Clarence has had one too many of his homebrews methinks... he needs to be reconverged. (Green/blue fringing).










Kal


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliffy


Awesome so far Big Dawg; has Ken Whitcomb worked his magic yet?


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *bomrat* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> he he, life sized hale barry... it looks great. get some sleep man.



You are DA MAN. "Just take the F****** lenses off"


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It's interesting that you guys are so impressed with running 1024p for now, when before most of you who havent seen blendzilla were complaining about missing out on the extra 56 lines for 1080p. Are you seeing horrible scanlines at this resolution or is it acceptable?



This was a shocker for me, too.


It's not the 56 missing lines that bothered me, it's the slight scaling vs no scaling at all... I still think this could still be evident with test patterns. But after seeing the detail from the Ice Age 2 Blu-Ray at 1080P, the 1024 limitation is no longer a significant concern to me. I now only have 17,002 other concerns. One of which is only having only one G90. I'll let you gue$$ about the other 17K.










I also thought 1024 would produce visible scanlines because my G90 resolves 1080P at 16:9, so I assumed fewer lines (1024) on a 4:3 would be too visible. For those who haven't played with blending, when you split the image among 2 projectors, each gets 60% of the image, so the height of the image gets maximized on each tube face, not the width of the image like we're used to.


But scanlines at 1024P aren't a problem. We think part of this might be due to the weave of the SMX screen. You can't see the weave until you stand a couple of feet away from the screen. With an all white screen, you can see them from a little further. But with HD content from 1x seating distance, neither the weave nor 1024P scanlines are an issue.


I'll hold a white sheet of paper in front of the screen tonight to see if the 1024P scanlines are visible on a non-woven surface.


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> what are your initial thoughts on how blending compares to a stack?? light output? sharpness? etc...



Light output from this blended pair can be pleasantly blinding









But I'm getting a double whammy here from what I've grown accustomed to at home with my single G90...

My G90 has 8K hours and visible wear on the G.

But Cliff has minty P19LUG's in both.

The contrast is amazing... twice the light output while maintaining pure, deeeeeep black. Plus the black walls, black floor, black chairs, black curtain over the door, zero windows. Nice.


It'll be interesting to see Ken's ft-lambert measurements tomorrow.


At 16:9 or 1.85, blending and stacking seem comparable... keeping every pixel aligned in a stack doesn't seem significantly easier or more challenging than getting a nice alignment in the blend zone.


One potential consideration from blending is the fact that your center is now comprised of the far edges of 2 projectors. So what used to be the easiest part of the screen to focus now becomes the most difficult.


But each projector in a blend now breezes at half bandwidth... 72Hz is easy when each half of the stack only has to handle 60% of 1024P72 or 1200P72. But in a stack, 1080P72 is definitely driving both projectors hard.


I think the benefit of blending vs stack really kicks in with 2.35 AR. In a stack, you're wasting a lot of the phosphor on the top and bottom of 6 tubes. In a blend, the top and bottom are more efficiently used.


----------



## ecrabb

You guys ALL SUCK!!!


Have fun. Take lots of pics. Drink beers and look at purdy pictures. Wish I could have made it.


SC


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This was a shocker for me, too.
> 
> ......I also thought 1024 would produce visible scanlines because my G90 resolves 1080P at 16:9, so I assumed fewer lines (1024) on a 4:3 would be too visible.



Yes, I tried to tell you guys before that I tried comparing 1024p vs 1200p and couldnt really see a significant difference... me thinks it would be better to run 1024p72 than doing 1200p60



> Quote:
> It'll be interesting to see Ken's ft-lambert measurements tomorrow.



Yes... very keen to see what he measures.



> Quote:
> At 16:9 or 1.85, blending and stacking seem comparable... keeping every pixel aligned in a stack doesn't seem significantly easier or more challenging than getting a nice alignment in the blend zone.



But there is less to worry about! And in a >2.35 AR, you're only looking at 10% overlap



> Quote:
> One potential consideration from blending is the fact that your center is now comprised of the far edges of 2 projectors. So what used to be the easiest part of the screen to focus now becomes the most difficult.



This is very true.. and is one of the reasons I've upgraded to HFQ900 lenses, in the hope that I get better edge focus, and hence screen centre



> Quote:
> But each projector in a blend now breezes at half bandwidth... 72Hz is easy when each half of the stack only has to handle 60% of 1024P72 or 1200P72. But in a stack, 1080P72 is definitely driving both projectors hard.



Another one of the great advantages, and you may notice that extra bandwidth doesnt just mean resolving higher frame rates, but you'll notice more background details etc... with the extra headroom. This is some of the advantages that Mike Parker speaks of with his Marquee mods.



> Quote:
> I think the benefit of blending vs stack really kicks in with 2.35 AR... In a blend, the top and bottom are more efficiently used.



Yes, and that's why I've gone for a 13ft wide 2.40 AR screen... now to set the bloody thing up!


What's happened to Cliff?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> What's happened to Cliff?



Ok Gino, first of all I am f'ing really tired and my brain has basically shut down at this point but I will add a couple of things in regards to this setup:


If you plan 16:9 with a blend, forget about it. You MUST RUN 2:35/40 in order to really take advantage of CRT phosphor usage with the Zilla.


I REALLY LIKE what we have on the screen right now al though it is NOT PERFECT and the blendzone is noticable hence why I have pretty much kept my mouth shut so far.


Ken and John are coming tomorrow to get rolling and make this little beast what it should be for saturday. When they get done, I will be more than happy to comment but for right now, until this box and my G90's get along and we get a professional setup to make it the best it can be, I'm keeping my mouth shut.










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

Since I get a free beer for every screenshot, here's tonight's buzz...











This is the screen weave vs. plain paper... 1024P. These lines are side-by-side (on-on)... not alternating on-off like the test patterns we usually shoot:














































We took this one as an example of the worst blend we could find...


----------



## Gino AUS

Awesome stuff... would really like to see how well Ken can make the blend.... then that way if he comes here he'll have some experience with blending!


----------



## antorsae

That blue blend is pretty noticeable. Is that intentional?


----------



## Gino AUS

I'd say that's a combination of setting the SE curve right, and colorimetry. That's my biggest problem. Mine isn't as noticeable but obviously they haven't spent a lot of time working on that side of things. This is where Ken's expertise will come in very handy.


----------



## mp20748




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That blue blend is pretty noticeable. Is that intentional?



I doubt if that's the case, because blue would be the most obvious color to show up being off in a blend setup.


I think the images that are being shown are exeptional. Especially since this is not the final work of the setup artist, who'll be there sometime before Saturday. The images shows how easy it is the get a good image out of a blend system, and I think that was indicated from what Clarence had posted earlier in the thread.


Once a color meter gets on the scene that blue can be corrected, and the blend zone should be much better. It'll never be perfect, but it can be very seamless and almost not visable at all. But that could take some work.


At present I've been working on one of my customers blends systems. It has three (3) Barco 909's on a 20' wide curved screen. The blend system is integrated into SGI super computers. The system has three Extron DVS 150 scalers. And it also has a Key Digital Leeza. The video comes out of the SGI's and other input sources using Extron RGB 112XI SW13 interface boxes (about 12 of them).


The super computers are doing the blending, and can also accept external inputs from the scalers and for DVD and other non computer sources.


I'm upgrading the system and performing a radical PM. When all is said and done. I would have replaced and repaired many devices in the video chain, and then have to setup and calibrate about 12 different sources. So it's going to take a ton of setups and blending. So I have my work cut out for me, but three things will make this easy.


1, the 909's are very flexable for this.


2, the HFQ lens are flawless on edges, therefore perfect for blending.


3, *a color meter. Without it, I would not be able to make the blend-zone seamless*.


This system is also a stereoscoptic (3 D glaases required), so the blending has to be spot on. The good thing about the SGI computers is that they have a perfect built-in test pattern for geometry blend and color blending.



Gotta go!


----------



## dropzone7

Guys, those screenshots look really great! I can see the blue blend you refer to but in my opinion you are just splitting hairs at this point. Kudos to everyone for getting it this far! Anything you do from this point on will just be icing on the cake. Great great job! By the way Cliff, I saw your comment about keeping your mouth shut and I have a feeling that wont be the case for much longer! You guys should do some video of the final adjustments and tweaking and post it up somewhere. You could do the final 15 minutes or so of adjustments and then have an opening of your demo on the big screen in all it's glory!


----------



## antorsae

I cannot wait to get more info from the event... I really wish I was there!!!










If at all possible, could you post a picture of a PS3 game in 1080p (assuming there are PS3 1080p games available and that you have one...)...


----------



## Ridebreck

Simply incredible, guys.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

All I know is that you guys are getting some exceptional sharpness ,color saturation, contrast and degenerative liver function .







Thanks for the screen shots ! I missed it but is this 1200p ?


Art


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> All I know is that you guys are getting some exceptional sharpness ,color saturation, contrast and degenerative liver function .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the screen shots ! I missed it but is this 1200p ?
> 
> 
> Art



Apparently it's 1024p but they plan to try 1200p again today to get some issues ironed out.


----------



## Gannon

I'd like everyone to notice how even the simple grid of the screen perforations increases the APPARENT clarity on the comparison shot between the screen and sheet of paper.


I've been trying to find an effective way to reveal to everyone duped by fixed pixels that much of the 'sharpness' of the image is falsely made by the grid structure of the panels!



Any time anything in the picture aligns with the horizontal and verticle grid...it gets enhanced in about the same variance that any slight diagonal and radius are degraded. BOTH pop off the screen, and devotees of the 'new and improved' are SO quick to ignore those horrible angles and radii, but I argue that those appear WAY more frequent in nature than ANY pefectly aligned H & V edges and lines!!



Even though the screen perfs don't truncate the edges, and you can still see the Kell-fuzz, that pattern of holes certainly tricks the eye the same way! Thanks for that inspiration!



Great shots, I am terribly excited to get out to youse...even IF I'm on the tail end of an extended depressive/creative cycle. (funny how the anxiety peaks just THINKING about being tightly packed in that room with all you maniacs!)


Cheers and more, see you tonight, unless the Seer has other plans for me.


Heh.


----------



## Gannon

Heya MP,


Why do you say that Blue should be the MOST noticeable while blended?!


ALL,


Please don't get all bunched on the anomalies until Ken does his thang. There are a ton of minor setup tricks that should minimize...and probably eliminate...all of it.



I'm still chewing on this infatuation with 1080p on a blended setup...there WILL be scaling involved any time the image is split and blended, no matter what you feed it. Sure, none in the verticle domain...but horizontally, at least.


Nah, the MOST important thing in any CRT setup is finding the sweet frequency and retrace that the particular chassis LIKES best...these things are ALL electromagnetic resonant devices and ring in weird ways when stressed. Disharmony is an ugly thing, no matter where it rears its punkin' head.


----------



## slartibartfasst

Hi all,


Those images are jaw-dropping. Really, I'm stunned.


One thing, though, that might help the blender do its work: looking at the picture of the MPAA warning, it appears that one projector is throwing a larger image than the other.


If you put up a real grid (pins and string?) on the screen, and nailed the geometry of the blended image, I bet that the blue variance would go down a notch, even before a serious color-calibration.


Mr. Gannon:


I don't see why scaling step is necessary in a blended image, horizontal or vertical. Could you please elaborate?


----------



## Gannon

Slart...,


Please! Call me John, or *anything* other than Mr. (but thanks!)!



You take an image that is a digital feed of 1920 x 1080 pure pixels, then chop it OR fade off one edge...then reformat it with front and back porches and all that other fun stuff that each projector needs to see to determine the beginning and ending of each line of information (since we are scanning continuously, NOT simply firing a collection of dots)...certainly there is processing going on.


It may NOT be total image SIZE scaling, as many simply consider the term, but THAT obviously will be in effect as well for anything we're doing here since we need to be able to zoom smaller-area aspect ratios up into the screen area IF the black bars offend.



But, each image to each projector needs to go through a scaler at the very least to insure the image either exactly fits the fixed pixel grid of a new projector OR fills as much of the raster as possible with the much-better-but-older Cathode Ray Tube imagers.



While I don't think I've ever struck the vertical INPUT limits of any projector, since most I deal with are merely 1.78 within a 1.33 raster...I have hit those input limits horizontally. We tend to only think of the raster as the limit of size and centering, but that is the OUTPUT. All circuitry has limits to its start and end points of the scan, and while I don't know the exact circuitry mechanism or description for this I can certainly say I've witnessed when it is wrong, and when it is right. (I still think they run on smoke, 'cuz that's what comes out when they fail!!)


Sometimes the EM disharmonic resonance appears as wavy vertical lines on one edge of the image...usually the left...sometimes the horizontal lines have weird curves that cannot be tamed. These anomalies appear at certain scan and retrace rates on *every* chassis, although within the same brand and model and production run they are usually much more predictable.



If anything, when setting up a double stack, BOTH projectors should be modded, measured, and tweaked at all internal voltage points before attempting a critical viewing environment...by someone who is maniacally precise. (Mike? Terry? Tim? Doug? Curt? In your _spare_ time, of course!)



For US, that'll probably never happen! Heh. We're too cheap to go to all that effort for the last 2%...at least I am. I'd encourage it, though, for anyone predisposed to extreme detail orientation...or to use the more vulgar term, anal retentivity! (it helps if they have deeper pockets to enable that, though!)



Cheers!


----------



## Gannon

Good catch on that size thing, too.


You mean the too large a vertical with greater scan line spacing, right?!


(You might have JUST proven why these things need scalers!)



THAT we'll have fun matching tonight...I hope Ken doesn't have tired eyes, I know we won't be able to rely on all the fellows in the sleep deprivation study.


----------



## draganm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the MOST important thing in any CRT setup is finding the sweet frequency and retrace that the particular chassis LIKES best...these things are ALL electromagnetic resonant devices and ring in weird ways when stressed. Disharmony is an ugly thing, no matter where it rears its punkin' head.



hmmm, sounds like Audiophile talk. Not surprising though, as advanced as the G90 is it's still an Analog device and anyone who's tried to fine-tune an analog system to perfection knows how difficult it can be to REALY achieve perfect harmony in a system.

Cliff I'm jealous that you have all these pro's at your door-step handling the nitty-gritty details. Make's me want to pull a second mortgage and blend a pair of 9500's at my house.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That blue blend is pretty noticeable. Is that intentional?



Yes. It was chosen because that was the worse blend we could see... but there was a lot of negative factors involved.


First, it was PS3. The PS3 has been frustrating because we can't get the entire image when we have it set to output 1080P from the HDMI cable. You'll notice in that MPAA warning that the right 10-20% of the image is missing.


When we try to change the settings to 1080i, we only get 480p. Cliff has tried this a dozen times and everytime, the PS3 comes close to getting thrown across the room. I guess it's a common complaint from other PS3 owners/gamers... it seems to really want to run at 720p or 480p, not at 1080p or 1080i.


Cliff's going to look for a local PS3 component cable today so we can try 1080i from component.


We also tried 1080P from the XBox 360's VGA cable... same issues that I'm having at home with my single G90... no matter how much we use SIZE and SHIFT, we can't get the left side of the image and the right side of the image on the screen at the same time.


All of the other sources look 100x better in the blend zone. Even the FBI warning from HDDVD has an 99.44% undetectable blend. For some reason, PS3 is the worst.


We've been playing a game called "Can you see the slightest hint of a blendzone?" With most sources, I'd say 95% of the time the answer is no. Even with the PS3, like in the IceAge2 pics above, most of the time you won't notice the blend, except with solid blue or solid white scenes... but in Ice Age, there are a LOT of white and blue scenes.


MP is right, blue seems to be the easiest color any flaws in our blend. White is next. Especially with large, solid areas of color. So that's the other reason the MPAA screen worked as our example of the worst case scenario.


Anyways, the intent is to repeat that screenshot to AFTER Ken does a real alignment and a color balance on both projectors. Right now, we're only using a lot of point convergence to align the grid in the blend zone. We started off trying to do a proper, measured linearity, but if can quickly get frustrating to have one section of the grid aligned, then you touch up a geometry setting on one projector and the blend zone alignment that you just worked on in a previous step goes out of whack. So we just stuck with the rough blend that we did Wednesday night and didn't dink with it yesterday, knowing that Ken was coming today to do it right.


----------



## Gannon

draganm,


You might've exactly nailed why I am not comfortable with digital.


Too many hard limits...truncation...no fudge factor to adapt to the wonderfully analog human perceptual system.



CRTs are much more like the eye/brain mechanism...and can be run at a rate where the perception of motion is rendered more fluidly. All video contains just enough to trick the eye/brain, because of our persistence of vision...but every one of us has trouble tracking horizontal pans on ANY current video display. I've noticed it in real life, so this 'judder' might just be another limitation on the mere human system.


I was happy to hear that we'll be experimenting with 72Hz with this video monster...


----------



## YONEXSP




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes. It was chosen because that was the worse blend we could see... but there was a lot of negative factors involved.
> 
> 
> First, it was PS3. The PS3 has been frustrating because we can't get the entire image when we have it set to output 1080P from the HDMI cable. You'll notice in that MPAA warning that the right 10-20% of the image is missing.
> 
> 
> When we try to change the settings to 1080i, we only get 480p. Cliff has tried this a dozen times and everytime, the PS3 comes close to getting thrown across the room. I guess it's a common complaint from other PS3 owners/gamers... it seems to really want to run at 720p or 480p, not at 1080p or 1080i.
> 
> 
> Cliff's going to look for a local PS3 component cable today so we can try 1080i from component.
> 
> 
> We also tried 1080P from the XBox 360's VGA cable... same issues that I'm having at home with my single G90... no matter how much we use SIZE and SHIFT, we can't get the left side of the image and the right side of the image on the screen at the same time.
> 
> 
> All of the other sources look 100x better in the blend zone. Even the FBI warning from HDDVD has an 99.44% undetectable blend. For some reason, PS3 is the worst.
> 
> 
> We've been playing a game called "Can you see the slightest hint of a blendzone?" With most sources, I'd say 95% of the time the answer is no. Even with the PS3, like in the IceAge2 pics above, most of the time you won't notice the blend, except with solid blue or solid white scenes... but in Ice Age, there are a LOT of white and blue scenes.
> 
> 
> MP is right, blue seems to be the easiest color any flaws in our blend. White is next. Especially with large, solid areas of color. So that's the other reason the MPAA screen worked as our example of the worst case scenario.
> 
> 
> Anyways, the intent is to repeat that screenshot to AFTER Ken does a real alignment and a color balance on both projectors. Right now, we're only using a lot of point convergence to align the grid in the blend zone. We started off trying to do a proper, measured linearity, but if can quickly get frustrating to have one section of the grid aligned, then you touch up a geometry setting on one projector and the blend zone alignment that you just worked on in a previous step goes out of whack. So we just stuck with the rough blend that we did Wednesday night and didn't dink with it yesterday, knowing that Ken was coming today to do it right.




Sony just released the patch for the PS3 to allow 1080i output yesterday I believe.


----------



## SmX

Man, all I can say is WOW! Those have to be the best screen shots I have ever seen posted on AVS, and to think you guys are still not properly set up yet blows my mind.


Awesome work guys! Can't wait to see the screen shots after the final tweaking.


Ruben


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Man, all I can say is WOW!
> 
> 
> Ruben



That is exactly what I think of your Screen Ruben!!!!!!!































Cliffy


----------



## lewis

Its probably embedded in this very long thread but what are the screen dimension? Is it 1.78 or 1.85?

btw I concur, best shots I've seen. Period. The actual image must look incredible.


----------



## aspec2

Cliff


Have I missed the directions? You aren't in mapquest or ms streets. You have my cell if it wasn't lost in the move. Give me a yell or send me a PM....Email....anything. It's getting close. I can't wait. Hurry........I'm leaving for Bourbonaiss....first have to pick up the kid's kids. Be there around dinner.


Is the old 708 number I have your cell number?


Walt


----------



## overclkr

XXX


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its probably embedded in this very long thread but what are the screen dimension? Is it 1.78 or 1.85?
> 
> btw I concur, best shots I've seen. Period. The actual image must look incredible.



Lewis,


The screen material and frame is 12ft wide but after framing and proper 1.78 aspect ratio the dimensions will be 135" wide by 76" tall.


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> First, it was PS3. The PS3 has been frustrating because we can't get the entire image when we have it set to output 1080P from the HDMI cable. You'll notice in that MPAA warning that the right 10-20% of the image is missing.
> 
> 
> When we try to change the settings to 1080i, we only get 480p. Cliff has tried this a dozen times and everytime, the PS3 comes close to getting thrown across the room. I guess it's a common complaint from other PS3 owners/gamers... it seems to really want to run at 720p or 480p, not at 1080p or 1080i.
> 
> 
> Cliff's going to look for a local PS3 component cable today so we can try 1080i from component.
> 
> 
> We also tried 1080P from the XBox 360's VGA cable... same issues that I'm having at home with my single G90... no matter how much we use SIZE and SHIFT, we can't get the left side of the image and the right side of the image on the screen at the same time.
> 
> 
> All of the other sources look 100x better in the blend zone. Even the FBI warning from HDDVD has an 99.44% undetectable blend. For some reason, PS3 is the worst.



I have been trying to determine if the G90 offers a Fast Retrace or Short Retrace setting; this would allow drawing more pixels on the visible scan line and fix the wrap issue, perhaps something Sony did not anticipate needing in home theater applications. Does any one know for sure?


----------



## slartibartfasst




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'd like everyone to notice how even the simple grid of the screen perforations increases the APPARENT clarity on the comparison shot between the screen and sheet of paper.
> 
> 
> I've been trying to find an effective way to reveal to everyone duped by fixed pixels that much of the 'sharpness' of the image is falsely made by the grid structure of the panels!



Hi John,


I just grabbed an objective set of eyes, and asked, "Which side of the "S" is sharper?"


"What, are you kidding me? The left side, obviously."


I was about to explain aliasing and center-surround visual processing when my objective eyes left the room.


Anyhow, thanks for the explanation about scaling. Regarding scan-line spacing on a 4:3 CRT projection display, it's a problem in my set-up. The bottom of the image, in my floor mounted arrangement, is slightly, but notably sharper than the top.


To Cliff et. al.:


If you guys have a chance, could you keep an eye out for ANSI contrast issues? Say, for instance, if one side of the image is really bright, and the other is darker, is there is a washout effect in the bright half of the image and not the other? I've only ever seen this in one scene, but I'm not using liquid coupled projectors.


----------



## garyfritz




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> LOOKING FOWARD TO SEEING EVERYONE TOMORROW!!!!!!!!



I'm jealous of all the fun you guys have been having, and the beer you've been drinking.







Have a great time tomorrow!!!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Clarence Can you show me how to snap those wonderful screen shots when I get back there.







I would like to take some of mine when the theater has been completed. And well short of a miracle or flying you out I need guidance










Cliff left you a message on I think your cell. I hope everything is coming together the way you wanted. Looking forward to seeing the final product, man those snap shots look amazing.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Cliff


Check your e.mail, I found out where they hid short retrace........


----------



## dominical2

This is goanna be one remarkable event ! Thanks Cliffy and Clarence for the great screenshots.... Now how many screenshot shot's are we up to Clarence ?


----------



## Gannon

Yay!


Can you believe I'm only NOW leaving Lansing?


Three hours on the Interstate, can't wait.


I guess I get to join the sleep deprivation club.


UGH.


----------



## Gino AUS

Very excited for you Cliffy! Don't forget about us unfortunate souls not able to make it, please keep us updated on more pics, thoughts etc....


----------



## klover




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *YONEXSP* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sony just released the patch for the PS3 to allow 1080i output yesterday I believe.



I can't believe one of the largest console makers in the world had to patch a HD gaming system to output 1080i. Seems like it would...you know...just be an option as a result of base logic.


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Very excited for you Cliffy! Don't forget about us unfortunate souls not able to make it, please keep us updated on more pics, thoughts etc....




Same. This is an exciting thread. That is a good size screen. Makes Clarence look like a Keebler Elf


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Lewis,
> 
> 
> The screen material and frame is 12ft wide but after framing and proper 1.78 aspect ratio the dimensions will be 135" wide by 76" tall.
> 
> 
> Cliff



This should allow a nice comparison to my 132" wide image. See you guys in a few hours.










Art


----------



## jtnfoley




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> From Target on Rt. 41 (Wicker Ave), I am exactly ONE STOPLIGHT SOUTH... 5 left turns:
> 
> 
> One stoplight south from Target is Rt. 231, turn Left.
> 
> 
> Turn left into my subdivision and drive through a couple of roundabout circles ALL THE WAY DOWN to the MODEL HOUSE.
> 
> 
> Turn LEFT at the MODEL HOUSE.
> 
> 
> 2nd street on your left after the model house TURN LEFT again.
> 
> 
> I am on the LEFT HAND SIDE:
> 
> 
> Cliff



My gawd... I've heard two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do! What about five lefts?










Good luck guys, and post pics!


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

For those tuning in late, our DVX "BlendZilla" processor is from Analog France, a broadcast grade switcher with some interesting capabilities; eight inputs including SDI and HDSDI, dual transcoders, and dual exotic scalers that can redraw a 16:9 source into squarish "halves" that seamlessly overlap at the screen:











































This technology, known as edge blending, enables us to light up the full height of the phosphor and the use of larger screens in the range of nine to twelve foot width.


Paired with two nine inch CRTs, figure on over 500 ANSI lumens!!!


----------



## Alan Gouger

Tim


A few questions ???

Let me know if I have this correct.


2 4x3 images side by side give you 235:1 so with this system you will want a 235:1 screen. Does this processor allow you to place a 16x9 in the center of the 235:1 screen.


Does this processor offer true 1080i de interlacing and 48hz output and will it take 1080p 24 from hd dvd and pass it through. Does it allow you to use an outboard VP processor of your choice coupled to the BZ using the BZ for the overlap processing only.


Sorry for all the questions but this interesting.


Thanks!


----------



## Alan Gouger

One more


Id be curious on average with source from both DVD and HD DVD how close of a viewing distance can you get to this setup before you start to see any nasties.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Alan


Two 1.33s adjacent is actually 2.66 but if we overlap 10% we are near 2.35. The DVX will stretch 2.35 to full raster height if needed. I do not automatically recommend that as I watch a lot of 16:9 stuff, for myself I settled on a 1.92 Stewart screen and 2.35 is full width but not full height.


We are pleased that John Gannon has made it to the demo and he will have a lot to say through the weekend!


----------



## Kipp Jones

Cliff,

Scott and I will be there later afternoon. See you then.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One more
> 
> 
> I'd be curious on average with source from both DVD and HD DVD how close of a viewing distance can you get to this setup before you start to see any nasties.



You would likely need to be inside of a screen width to start seeing any hickies, I sit fifteen feet from a nine foot screen no problem.


----------



## overclkr

Somebody just please shoot me now and get it over with............


----------



## LJG




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> Two 1.33s adjacent is actually 2.66 but if we overlap 10% we are near 2.35. The DVX will stretch 2.35 to full raster height if needed. I do not automatically recommend that as I watch a lot of 16:9 stuff, for myself I settled on a 1.92 Stewart screen and 2.35 is full width but not full height.
> 
> 
> We are pleased that John Gannon has made it to the demo and he will have a lot to say through the weekend!



So it is setup as a constant width with masking from top and bottom?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LJG* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So it is setup as a constant width with masking from top and bottom?



That is the approach I recommend or your HDTV resolution is compromised.


----------



## Alan Gouger




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is the approach I recommend or your HDTV resolution is compromised.



Going 235:1 you would lose some horizontal resolution doing 16x9 but you would always maintain full vertical resolution.

Im a 235:1 fan boy. Id go 235:1 all the way with this thing







Regardless, this is cool as henry.

Glad to see everyone getting together and having a great time. Post them pics.


----------



## SmX

Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house

Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse


The twin G-90's were hung on the ceiling with care,

In hopes that the spectators soon would be there.


Any updates?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


I talked to Gannon just now to beg for news,,,,,,,best meet he ever went to he said, and the image is "Stunningly 3D"


----------



## Clarence

Having a fun time!


I think Cliff is finally starting relax... the blend is looking good, the screen is looking great, lots of good demo clips. Good crowd. Art took some people pictures.


I'll take some final screenshots later tonight... I don't think you'll believe how much better it looks after Ken did the calibration and Cliff stayed up waaaaay too late tweaking the blendzilla settings.... I crashed at 3am (early compared to the previous nights this week)... he woke me up at 5:30am to check out his final settings.


Stay tuned...


----------



## mikecazzx




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Having a fun time!
> 
> 
> I think Cliff is finally starting relax... the blend is looking good, the screen is looking great, lots of good demo clips. Good crowd. Art took some people pictures.
> 
> 
> I'll take some final screenshots later tonight... I don't think you'll believe how much better it looks after Ken did the calibration and Cliff stayed up waaaaay too late tweaking the blendzilla settings.... I crashed at 3am (early compared to the previous nights this week)... he woke me up at 5:30am to check out his final settings.
> 
> 
> Stay tuned...



Well, having to leave early has one advantage - I get to post first.


The image is stunning. The best word to describe it would be immersive. It is very filmlike and 3D like - tons of depth and bright. The time Cliff, Arli, Clarence and Ken put in was well worth it.


King Kong actually scared me. The picture and sound really really put you in the action, its like being there.


The blending issue, is not an issue. If you want to split hairs you can, but when your watching a movie its not an issue, IMHO.


The speakers behind the screen is something we all should strive for. Especially due to Cliff's current screen size a massive use of blackout material - it was intense. The entire front wall is screen.


This will be one the best CRT pictures available when this is done. Go 10.5 feet wide instead of 10 - I was loving the oversized screen.


Good job guys, nice to see everyone again and nice to add another theater to the Nw Indiana region.


----------



## aspec2

Awe Mike you beat me.


It was quite amazing. It is hard to describe. Movie houses should display pictures and sound as good as this. I guess the best way to describe it would be when I was leaving. I stuck my head in the room to say good bye to Cliff and noticed Art, in a seat, with his mouth hanging open.










Cliff, once again thank you for the hospitality. It was great meeting new people and renewing acquaintances from the previous meet. It was fun talking to John Gannon. That's all I'll say. He reminds me of me when I was a lot younger. Your "hottie wife" did a splendid job. I don't know how she put up with you and Clarence this week. You must have been obsessed with those devices. She said she couldn't sleep. Are you sure the subs aren't doing structural damage?










Thank you again.


Walt


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aspec2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I stuck my head in the room to say good bye to Cliff and noticed Art, in a seat, with his mouth hanging open.



Nice, Sounds like the SmX Movie Screen and the Blendzilla make a nice combo.


Ruben


----------



## overclkr









MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> A few questions ???
> 
> Let me know if I have this correct.
> 
> 
> 2 4x3 images side by side give you 235:1 so with this system you will want a 235:1 screen. Does this processor allow you to place a 16x9 in the center of the 235:1 screen.
> 
> 
> Does this processor offer true 1080i de interlacing and 48hz output and will it take 1080p 24 from hd dvd and pass it through. Does it allow you to use an outboard VP processor of your choice coupled to the BZ using the BZ for the overlap processing only.



Alan, 2.35 is with 10% overlap, smaller aspect ratio screens are handled by increasing the overlap and also making the raster slightly skinnier. 2.35 also allows you to use most of the available raster, but is problematic if you do lots of 16:9 viewing too, and is why Tim recommends the 1.92 AR.


I'm not sure its capabilities as a 1080i deinterlacer. But I choose to use an external VP processor (VP50) as I believe it does a better job. Also, the DVX (blendzilla) does output 48/50/60/72/75 or it can match whatever framerate your external VP is doing. So basically my sources are all going through the VP50 except the Xbox360, then the VP does all deinterlacing/scaling etc... then the DVX splits the image to each projector.


EDIT - Forgot to mention it accepts 1080p24/50/60 and the recent firmware release this week adds [email protected] Dont know what you mean by passthrough Alan, it needs to split the image!


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Going 235:1 you would lose some horizontal resolution doing 16x9 but you would always maintain full vertical resolution.
> 
> Im a 235:1 fan boy. Id go 235:1 all the way with this thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless, this is cool as henry.
> 
> Glad to see everyone getting together and having a great time. Post them pics.



Actually Alan, the way I will be setting up my 2.40 screen will allow me to do 1920x800 for this aspect, then 1920x1080 for 16:9. This means I will not be sacrificing any resolution at all. This is made possible by using an external VP, but will take extra time setting up.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aspec2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I stuck my head in the room to say good bye to Cliff and noticed *Art, in a seat, with his mouth hanging open*.



Well ART, care to comment??!!


Someone do a blend vs stack comparison!!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *aspec2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Your "hottie wife" did a splendid job. I don't know how she put up with you and Clarence this week. You must have been obsessed with those devices. She said she couldn't sleep. Are you sure the subs aren't doing structural damage?



We unplugged the subs at midnight every night and she still came down at 2am and 4am everynight and scolded us like teenagers.










She's gonna be glad when I leave and all of this is over so she can have her husband back for a few weeks. Bless all our wives for putting up with our childish obsession of bigger and louder.


----------



## dropzone7

That processor looks like one serious piece of equipment! I would hate to see the price tag on that mofo.







You guys don't do anything halfass, that's for sure!


----------



## Mark P

Can I have my screen back now? J/K sounds like it was fun! I too am interested in Arts comments on mainly the SMX as compared to a 9K screen and Im sure he was sitting much closer to a Large Screen than he does at his Theater


----------



## Don_Kellogg









Sorry things fell apart for me, I could not make it. The site manager that I just hired got in a really bad accident on black ice... I could not leave to go home. Hopefully he will have a speedy recovery. Looks like everyone had a good time, I only wish I could have made it.


Cliff I'll see if I can find a cable and drop it off on the way back home, If I can't I have the pin tool and could make you one when I get home.


----------



## skylooker1

Cliff,


Thanks for the good time. Glad to see everyone again, and meet a few new.


You and Arli put a ton of work in a short period, NICE JOB!!!


Clarence, Nice to finally meet you.


Ken, great job again.


Bigpictureidus, Spreadscreen, WalltoWall, Inyourfaceproductions


I think you still have quite a bit of time before digital comes aknocking with a serious threat.


Thanks again, MIKE


----------



## overclkr

Ok guys and gals, it's time for the nitty gritty. First of all, I have been working my ars off so bad for so long now that by this morning I was absolutely spent beyond no recognition.


Thank you so much for all that attended today and I truly hope that EVERYONE left here with satisfaction and a true representation of what the G90's are capable of.


Clarence is in taking screenshots right now that everyone will be able to see very soon. Simply JAWDROPPING is all I have to say and for now I leave it at that.


I want to add a few small suggestions for improvement for the Zilla........


Proper scaling, make it consumer friendly, accept common HD sources and adjust to make the sources feed optimal output for high end Home Theater Displays (keep a database of the limitations of todays top high end displays).










Please keep in mind that when I say limitation, it's not that a G90 cannot resolve 1080P, it's the fact that Sony sent certain timings to the G90 at other resolutions besides 1080P than are crucial to the G90's video chain.


With that being said, my last three nights now with this box has been a complete jawdropping experience that will be burned into me for a long time to come.


For now ladies and gents, I must stop because I really need some serious sleep and time with my wife, kids, and most importantly myself because if I dont get the last part I just spoke of like tomorrow, I WILL start losing MYSELF........










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

Cliff pointed to the pile of empty bottles and counted how many screenshots I owed, so let me settle my bar tab before I crawl to bed.


OBTW, my favorite beers this week:

"Alpha King Pale Ale" from Three Floyd's Brewery in Munster IN

"Two Hearted Ale" from Bells Brewery in Comstock MI.


First, the twins:










and the rack:









XBox360 HDDVD

XBox 360

DVDO VP30

JVC DVHS

SDI DVD

Toshiba HD DVD

Blendzilla

HTPC

audio receiver


----------



## Clarence

This solid blue field now shows a slight blend zone... a rare worst-case scene when the blend might be detectable:


----------



## Clarence

King Kong on HD-DVD:


----------



## antorsae

In two words: UN-BELIEVABLE!










Thanks for the pics (I've been hitting the refresh button a few times already just in case Clarence felt more generous before going to bed...).


I concur: these are the best screenshots I've seen in AVS, or... elsewhere for the record... and I cannot really spot the blend zone in the blue image.


Question: did the blend zone become noticeable when looking at the screen from an angle? (based on the results here I think I am just going to use the SMX screen and go as big as possible, and place the speakers/sub behind the screen)


Regards!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Question: did the blend zone become noticeable when looking at the screen from an angle? (based on the results here I think I am just going to use the SMX screen and go as big as possible, and place the speakers/sub behind the screen)



All of the attendees will probably concur that the blend zone was not noticeable at ANY angle during any of the demo clips. The only time the blend zone was noticeable was during complete black, but with some more time, that could probably be completely adjusted too.


The SmX screen was a huge success. It should share credit with the G90s, the blendzilla, and Ken's amazing calibration skills in the success of the incredible presentation that we shared. Highly recommended!!! I can't think of a single flaw in that screen material. The acoustic performance exceeded my highest expectations.


----------



## antorsae

Blend zone noticeable during blackout? How's that? A "gray" strip?


----------



## antorsae

Cliff.... go to sleep now!!!


----------



## Gino AUS

You guys have motivated me to get my setup up and running again. I've replaced the GT17's to HFQ900's, and I've installed the new 156" wide 2.40 AR screen. I've repositioned the projectors, so will spend the next few week nights after work setting it all up again!


----------



## aspec2

Cliff


How do I stop my credit cards from rattling in my pocket? It's the next day. I thought they would have stopped by now. I'm glad my wife wasn't there. Chapter 13 would not be far off.


Walt


----------



## dc_pilgrim

Wasn't there a pearl there too? Any comments, or were you guys having too much fun with blendzilla to even turn it on?


----------



## skylooker1

Finger Puppets, Arli !!!!


----------



## RAPTORHT




----------



## Art Sonneborn

I just got up so please pardon my even more stunted writing skill and delusions of elloquence than usual.


Cliff,Clarence,Ken Arli....an extremely impressive display ! Very sharp,tons of light great great contrast and just unbelievably engaging. Of course ,having experienced a lesser device three years ago I was looking hard for the blend zone. Just spectacular.I particularly felt like I was sitting in front of something that was almost three dimensional in that it being that large and encommpassing you felt like things were just in the room with you.


I had several things I really liked in the demos but the skeleton dance in Corpse Bride brought out my mwuuu,haaa !










One test I wanted to see was complete black out near the start of Serenity on HDDVD. It easily passed this without any visibilty. As Clarence stated at the start of my demo session, the zone can be seen after about two seconds of total darkness. There was some discussion regarding the fact that this could very likely have been even further ameliorated with some more tweaking but they had run out of time.


The display had better uniformity than mine I believe due to two factors one being the lower gain screen material the other is the the shape of the two images side by side with merged centers at edges not overlayed( figure eight or hour glass shaped as opposed to a single circular shape on mine).


The hospitality was fantastic. I'm very much looking forward to the enjoyning your theater when it is completed Cliff.


PS Cliff, when you said something to the effect "yea !! fuuck yea!! that's how it's done!! " after one of the demo pieces and it could have been heard two blocks down the street that was the high point for me.



















Art


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dc_pilgrim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wasn't there a pearl there too? Any comments, or were you guys having too much fun with blendzilla to even turn it on?



The Pearl was about what I expected.
I was surprised that it was able to fill the entire 11'3" screen... there's not an over-abundance of throw-distance in Cliff's room.
The pixel mis-convergence bothered me most... especially the red MC was visible from seating distance. I'd keep sending it back until I found one with better pixel alignment.
Pixel structure disappeared in the SmX screen's weave. So, just like the Qualias and Rubies I've seen, SDE is not an issue.
Yes, finger-puppet shadows were very visible during the "black" scenes
It looked softer than I expected, especially with "House of Flying Daggers" on Blu-Ray. Ice Age 2 looked much, much better. IIRC, This is the same model that Kipp has and even he thought the focus was off or that the projector might've been slightly out-of-plane with the screen.
The first night he turned it on, it seemed brighter than what we saw last night. I know the iris was off the first night, but maybe it was turned on last night. IIRC, Ken measured


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Clarence just to comment quickly on the Pearl also. It was very impressive that it could light up the screen as well as it did( of course it is a brand new lamp) and Christ, tough to beat the price! Nice sharp picture . The model had panel errors on about two thirds of the image but at about 1.3x width they weren't obtrusive for me. The image did not have the depth of the G90 set up. I know Kipp stated that he has one that is essentially spot on with the panels which is great. This one looked better than the uniot I saw in a dedicated room a few weeks back where the errors were close to two to three times what this unit had.


Yes the hand puppet test wasn't close but this is pretty much as we expected.


Art


----------



## Gannon

I never even SAW the Pearl...funny, after Ken started doing his magic, it was not mentioned. Not once, at least not while I was in the room.



What's up with _THAT_, you say?



Because what happened on this *acreage* of woven white was so compelling that more than a few of us could be found grinning in the recognition that not only will our adored CRT setups still have legs WELL into any foreseen widescreen (widESTscreen?) future, it absolutely KICKS any and all fixed-pixel ASS because of the absense of artifacting (outside of the aforementioned de-interlacing issues, which the makers of Blendzilla MUST address, along with the stability problems we had, which could have a myriad of causes...not necessarily ALL in the processor).



It's just gonna cost a wee bit more to gain this perfect-for-the-human-bi-eyed-visual-perceptual-machine figure-8 hotspot (think the infinity sign, or an 8 taking a rest) that yielded some of the best uniformity and corner energy I've ever seen with ANY CRT.




The way we've been using them in the past is akin to the suburban SUV driver with the sparkling-new never-used trailer hitch...and the lonely single child hiding in back...while the driver is duped into thinking they've got all the power and ownership of the highway.



I regret my lack of phosphor stewardship in the past, and resolve to NOT waste it in the future, if I can help it.





This thing passed my ONE screen height seating test EVERY time I dared it...thanks to anyone who had to look over my punkin' head to see the bottom of the image while I was parked in the middle of the floor. Goodness, it was overwhelming to have my ENTIRE visual field filled up with Hollywood's 'creations'. _*Kong!*_




NOW, onto even better things...how do we "starch" this screen fabric into holding a parabola, so I can have *all* of the image the same distance from my eyeballs?! That flat field _could_ take away a wee bit of the pseudo-reality as the focus to the upper part of the screen took WORK, or effort, within my eyeballs. (not nearly as much as, say, the digital-to-analog constant effort of DLP and plasma, heh)



Lemme do my speaker tweak on a system around the Blendzilla...which y'all will hear when I do MY theater meet...and we could arrive at the MOST sensory satiation available with modern, er, saved-from-retirement technology!!



You think having a full-eyeball aspect ratio and size was compelling and convincing...


----------



## Gannon

WHEN did y'all fire it up?! How did I miss this? OH yeah, I was upstairs philosophizing and conversing...what a great party.



If there were ANY fixed-pixel devotees there, I didn't hear from them, but hopefully they were convinced that our obsession with BLACK is warranted.


There is simply NO OTHER WAY to achieve three-dimensionality and rock-solid image convincing of our eye/brain mechanism.


The digital apologists just don't know yet, or they simply don't care that their pictures are flat and dead...and falsely 'clear' from the grid pattern.



Nah, we're on the right road to video heaven here...just a few little adjustments to the 'zilla, I can see the glowing golden shores across our home theater Jordan.


----------



## Kipp Jones

Cliff,

Thanks for being such a gracious host. You have a beautiful home and family. Oh and the cineplex in your basement was "FOOK YEAH, THATS HOW ITS DONE!!!" awesome!!! BTW, that was the funniest line I have heard in quite some time. Just above Art saying how your wife has a "nice caboose" and your reply was golden "Guys, I am hitting that as much as possible".


It was great to see you take such pride and enjoyment with your new HT. Great job, it looked and sounded fantastic. Hey those rice crispy/chocolate peanut butter treats were pretty good too.



> Quote:
> IIRC, This is the same model that Kipp has and even he thought the focus was off or that the projector might've been slightly out-of-plane with the screen.



Very true, I could not believe how bad that Pearl was out of spec. The panels appeared to be off by 3+ pixels. On top of that the Pearl really should not be thrown over 110". Also the unit there was out of focus.


Kevin from the Littles guys admitted that because the Pearl was being shown on such a big screen 11.5 feet, the focus adjustment at that throw was maxxed out. The Pearl was also throwing at an angle which caused the left side of the screen to be very very soft and blurry.


At best, the images thrown by that particular Pearl were DVD quality. That unit needs to go back to Sony for repairs. I sure hope Kevin is not using that unit in their store. See below for the shots I took of my Pearl and notice there is no pixel offset and how detailed the images are. Nothing like the unit last night.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...52#post9102652


----------



## Kipp Jones

I forgot to add it was great seeing everyone. On top of the great Ht experiences, I really enjoy meeting all the people, Cliff & co., Art, Angela, Ken, Arli and everyone else!!! I have seen Art and Ken in 3 states now.


----------



## Gannon

Art always seems to be in the same state when I see 'im.


Controlled joy and bliss...how does that MF do it?!


----------



## CaspianM

Those screen shots show it all. Thanks for posting and sharing the meet and setup.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If there were ANY fixed-pixel devotees there, I didn't hear from them, but hopefully they were convinced that our obsession with BLACK is warranted.
> 
> 
> There is simply NO OTHER WAY to achieve three-dimensionality and rock-solid image convincing of our eye/brain mechanism.
> 
> 
> The digital apologists just don't know yet, or they simply don't care that their pictures are flat and dead...and falsely 'clear' from the grid pattern.



Too bad you couldnt get your hands on a Digital Projections 3 chipper, even 720p, its far from lacking blacks and that 3D look especially on King Kong HD at 14'. The SMX screen was a major part of the 3d look and aweshocking experience in the nature of the fabric itself. It would have been interesting to pop another screen up and see the difference, I have tested it against a Stewart StudioTek and the SMX really helps with the "pop" effect.


I thought everyone knew the Pearls and Rubys were soft looking.


Whats the cost for this G-90 setup, I know someone whos curious and has about the same sized screen in an anamorphic setup and using a 1 chip DLP.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Whats the cost for this G-90 setup, I know someone whos curious



Your friend will find that a Pearl wins in cost/performance as acknowledged above.


Unlike digitals, for two G90's and a blendzilla you can't just go to a website and click "Buy Now".


But as a rough estimate for your curious friend, tell him 10-20K for each G90 and IIRC, about 17K for the blendzilla. Or a little less if you beg, boroow, or steal. And possibly even less if you have some luck and a little patience.


----------



## mp20748

Ken did an EXCELLENT job on the blend. That blue image (Walt Disney) looks fantastic, and it's not only blue that reveals a great job, he bought the white in right along side the blue. Sure with time he may have been able to do better, but with blending, you're not going get much better than that when tweaking blue - KUDOS!


You guys were all great. That was an awesome gathering, but I got to give Ken his props here. Based on that blue image alone, he's all that and some change..










Thanks Cliff, for putting together a great gathering, and bringing it to the forum.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Whats the cost for this G-90 setup, I know someone whos curious and has about the same sized screen in an anamorphic setup and using a 1 chip DLP.



Say Mark


The DVX processor lists for $17K and will end up at around $15,900 on your front porch. The demo unit there is Serial Number 05 and I believe that many of the issues mentioned have been corrected in subsequent builds, such as the one I am using.


----------



## Kipp Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Mark P* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought everyone knew the Pearls and Rubys were soft looking.



What you mention above is not that the two are "soft" looking, its that they do not have the "digitized, unnautural" edge that many DLPs have. Remember its two different technologies here and each has their pros and cons. I am a former DLP FP owner. I still have two DLP displays.


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Say Mark
> 
> 
> The DVX processor lists for $17K and will end up at around $15,900 on your front porch. The demo unit there is Serial Number 05 and I believe that many of the issues mentioned have been corrected in subsequent builds, such as the one I am using.



Hardware or firmware upgrade?


----------



## Gannon




> Quote:
> The demo unit there is Serial Number 05 and I believe that many of the issues mentioned have been corrected in subsequent builds, such as the one I am using.




That explains a whole bunch, Tim. I spend the better part of the day trying to reconcile the fact that I saw none on your setup over the summer. To be confirmed when I'm through on the way to CES in a few weeks!


----------



## Gannon




> Quote:
> Too bad you couldnt get your hands on a Digital Projections 3 chipper, even 720p, its far from lacking blacks and that 3D look especially on King Kong HD at 14'.



Mark,


What would be the ACTUAL (not theoretical) bulb-replacement costs for 3000 hours per year on that Digital Projection unit? They are at least the ONLY honest projection company, listing the bulb replacement costs in their price sheet.




What is the real cost of the bulb failing the night before your biggest video event of the year...what I call the 'Murphy factor'?




Nah, I ain't touching a fixed-pixel until they all have those LED backlights...sorry.



Cheers!


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hardware or firmware upgrade?



Andres


I suspect small improvements to the boards since the first few were built, chip revisions, I will inquire if that is so.


----------



## Mark P




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Mark,
> 
> 
> What would be the ACTUAL (not theoretical) bulb-replacement costs for 3000 hours per year on that Digital Projection unit? They are at least the ONLY honest projection company, listing the bulb replacement costs in their price sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the real cost of the bulb failing the night before your biggest video event of the year...what I call the 'Murphy factor'?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, I ain't touching a fixed-pixel until they all have those LED backlights...sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers!



My spare was $850 for Murphy Law, actually you run about 500 hours or your warranty out then use that as the spare and replace it with the new. I was impressed with their CQ documentaion that came with the PJ where they actually ran the PJ and hand wrote the particulars like Contrast Ratios and such, are you saying they are dishonest or honest ? I know I love their product and got a $4000 rebate a year ago six months after purchase, how many companies do that?


LOL at backlights, I dont see them they are hidden in a hushbox. Automating the beasts on button proved a little challenging but now done.


----------



## Gannon

OH NO, don't get me wrong.


Digital Projection is THE honest maker/reseller of these devices!


It's the REST of the buggers I'm pissed about...and all the retailers and salespeople so eager for business they don't warn people about the bulb problem, or IF they mention anything they quote the bulb maker's highest expected life length.


That will just piss MOST people off, because if you only quote the highest estimate, MOST will fail well before that time.


Every bar and restaurant I've been to here in Detroit has had serious issues with their projector purchases...since we still allow cigarette smoking indoors here, that tar and nicotine makes bulbs fail in less than 10% of their expected time!


My next door neighbor, the best Thai food restaurant downtown, actually had the blue-pass dichroic filter burn from a lack of airflow after their 'filter' clogged...it looked amazingly like a burned CRT image (of which I've seen exactly ONE true 'burn' in an old golf-simulator projector!).



Back to your regularly scheduled thread...sorry for the diversion.


----------



## Gannon

BTW, has anyone proven that they've fixed the bulb 'degassing' issues? Early on, they discovered that bulbs didn't exactly have a long shelf life, so buying a spare and storing it right might end up a huge waste of money.


----------



## Gannon

Darn, just caught your description of storing the original bulb...good idea.


----------



## Alan Gouger

Pics look great. Every picture to date of " The Incredible" always showed the foreheads washed out from peaked whites but not here. Looks like you had some headroom left for brightness if needed. Looks Incredible







From what Ive read the SMX was hit. Its already become popular with digital projectors so its nice it has been accepted on the other side of the technology pond.


----------



## Gannon

Yeah, we got SOME fun now on the 'sunset' side of the pond.


Talk about your magic or golden hour...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Pics look great. Every picture to date of " The Incredible" always showed the foreheads washed out from peaked whites but not here. Looks like you had some headroom left for brightness if needed. Looks Incredible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From what Ive read the SMX was hit. Its already become popular with digital projectors so its nice it has been accepted on the other side of the technology pond.



Alan,


There is only one other place that I've seen an image this good and that image is located in Leroy, Michigan.










The contrast ratio was absolutely through the roof and in the heavens. I cannot believe that in another day, the setup will be gone..........










The SMX Material is by FAR the BEST accoustically transparent screen material I have EVER seen. PERFECT and I mean PERFECT color uniformity, no hot spotting, and not to mention that it took my Klipsch KLF30's and matching center channel to a new height in audio that I have never heard before. Simply amazing.


To give you an idea of the light output Ken acheived on the screen without sacrificing my tubes for the meet was 9FL on 11' 3" wide.
























Ruben really has SCORED a double whammy on SMX..........


More thoughts coming soon........


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Guys, I have to quote this one more time just in case these shots got missed.....



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> This solid blue field now shows a slight blend zone... a rare worst-case scene when the blend might be detectable:


----------



## overclkr

HOLY CRAP!!!!!











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> King Kong on HD-DVD:


----------



## Gannon

Oh ****, did ANYONE consider the withdrawls?!



Cliffy, we're with you man, hang in there.



Just don't overdose this last day...


----------



## overclkr

MUST COME TO GRIP WITH REALITY.......



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We are having SO much fun with this!
> 
> 
> Ken, Arli, and Don left hours ago to get some sleep like sensible people, but Cliff and I kept playing and did a rough setup so we could watch some blended 12' wide HD:


----------



## overclkr

TWEAKING AWAY.........



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Since I get a free beer for every screenshot, here's tonight's buzz...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the screen weave vs. plain paper... 1024P. These lines are side-by-side (on-on)... not alternating on-off like the test patterns we usually shoot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We took this one as an example of the worst blend we could find...


----------



## SmX

Enough with the screen shots already, lets see some people pictures, especially Cliffs hottie wife!










Ruben


----------



## overclkr

Ok, one more screenshot before the wife and I go upstairs to get nekked.....











> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I woke up exactly 24 hours ago to drive here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff's wife came down a few hours ago and yelled at us, so Cliff unplugged the subs


----------



## Alan Gouger

We are looking at the ultimate here ( Cliff you lucky man ) with a pair of G90s but I would guess those on a budget or limited on space could use a pair of 7 or 8" CRTs and still benefit from the BLENDZILLA could they not.

Would that be a waist or would you guys say go for it ?


I second Rubens request


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Alan


Absolutely! A pair of retubed M8500s or similar and a DVX would start around $30K and look fabulous on a nine or ten foot screen width; one could scale up to nine inchers later.


----------



## RVonse

Those are steller screenshots!


I have 2 questions for anyone who might know:


1. What was the throw distance of the G90's (how much closer does that compare to 1 G90 or stacked G90's to do the same job)?


2. How much does the SMX screen material cost and where can someone go to buy it?


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those are steller screenshots!
> 
> 
> I have 2 questions for anyone who might know:
> 
> 
> 1. What was the throw distance of the G90's (how much closer does that compare to 1 G90 or stacked G90's to do the same job)?
> 
> 
> 2. How much does the SMX screen material cost and where can someone go to buy it?



Not sure about question No.1 but here is a link to answer question No.2. I am definately getting 3 yards of that stuff when it comes time to set up my CRT unit. Looks great!

http://www.smxscreen.com/smx-ordering.html


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> PS Cliff, when you said something to the effect "yea !! fxxk yea!! that's how it's done!! " after one of the demo pieces and it could have been heard two blocks down the street that was the high point for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



My friend you and your wife are stellar to say the least and thank you for coming down.


If it wasn't for you and Ken, none of this would have been possible. Looking foward to seeing you again soon........










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those are steller screenshots!
> 
> 
> I have 2 questions for anyone who might know:
> 
> 
> 1. What was the throw distance of the G90's (how much closer does that compare to 1 G90 or stacked G90's to do the same job)?
> 
> 
> 2. How much does the SMX screen material cost and where can someone go to buy it?



Bob, when I get a chance, I will measure again what my throw distance ended up being.


Cliff


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Those are steller screenshots!
> 
> 
> I have 2 questions for anyone who might know:
> 
> 
> 1. What was the throw distance of the G90's (how much closer does that compare to 1 G90 or stacked G90's to do the same job)?
> 
> 
> 2. How much does the SMX screen material cost and where can someone go to buy it?



Say Bob


Throw is less than 1.0 with HD10-something lenses, because each projector is only drawing onto sixty percent of the screen width. Cliff was near 120 inches if I remember correctly. The SMX fabric is around $4 a square foot I think.


----------



## Gino AUS

Well done Cliff eta al. It was a great journey watching through this thread every night to see your progress and see how far you could take blending. Thanks for sharing. By all reports the night was a huge success, with the screenshots to prove it, and I imagine it is much much better being there in person. For those of you who have seen blended and stacked G90's at about the same screen size, care to make a direct comparison?? Advantages/Disadvantages of each. Also, I've heard mention that you guys had problems with the DVX... what were they? In any case, looks like I'll have to hire Ken to do my blend when I get the dedicated theatre!


Thanks guys for reaffirming that Blended CRT's still give the ultimate experience.


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Well, Clarence stopped in on the way back to Virginia.................. what a class act and such a bright man. He wanted to see my room but was demoed out and I understand. My expectations ,as I told him , were very different than the deliberate ,even ,soft spoken gentleman I finally had the good fortune to meet.


Our time was short but I certainly appreciate the fact that he came to my home.


Cliff,

I enjoyed very much last night ..the Chicago guys are just such a great bunch of warm, genuine , bright guys. Thanks for inviting me. Oh yea ,your not exaggerating about your wife..I'm sorry,or maybe I'm not, she is lucious.










Art'


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I've heard mention that you guys had problems with the DVX... what were they?
> 
> 
> Thanks guys for reaffirming that Blended CRT's still give the ultimate experience.



Gino


Relax pal, the demo unit was a very early sample........


----------



## draganm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We are looking at the ultimate here ( Cliff you lucky man ) with a pair of G90s but I would guess those on a budget or limited on space could use a pair of 7 or 8" CRTs and still benefit from the BLENDZILLA could they not.
> 
> Would that be a waist or would you guys say go for it ?



I was just getting ready to post about this. YES, you can definitely do a magnificent blended set-up with less expensive machines. A pair of G70's, Mike Parker modded 8500's, or even Barco 1208/09 would be pretty stellar. Just because cliff used the most expensive CRT projector ever made doesn't mean everyone has to.







I have actually been dreaming of blending a pair of M8500's ever since I saw Blendzilla at Tims place about 10 months ago. Wish I had the space for a really big screen like that.


----------



## bomrat

it sounds like everybody had fun at the meet... glad that so many people came out to slobber over the eye candy... its now time to rest and enjoy the wacky season called christmas. have a happy holidays..


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gino
> 
> 
> Relax pal, the demo unit was a very early sample........



I'm not worried at all Tim. My unit is very stable. I was just curious what difficulties they were facing.


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Oh yea ,your not exaggerating about your wife..I'm sorry,or maybe I'm not, she is lucious.



Proof... where's the proof! We need pictures


----------



## garyfritz

That's what I kept thinking! Where are some "screen shots" of the hottie wife, Cliffy??










Sounds like an amazing evening, gentlemen. Wish I could have been there -- even more for the quality company than for the quality PQ.


----------



## Kipp Jones

Cliff,

Where are the pics of the meet???


----------



## Phil Smith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Proof... where's the proof! We need pictures



Here she is. In this photo, Cliff's wife is subtly hinting it's time to wrap up the meet.


----------



## scorch123




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draganm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have actually been dreaming of blending a pair of M8500's ever since I saw Blendzilla at Tims place about 10 months ago. Wish I had the space for a really big screen like that.



Dragan,


You and I both! But at least I can "invite" myself over to Tim's place once in a while...











- Steve O.


----------



## Kipp Jones




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Phil Smith* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here she is. In this photo, Cliff's wife is subtly hinting it's time to wrap up the meet.




Sorry, that does not do Cliff's wife any justice.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Kipp Jones* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> Where are the pics of the meet???



Kipp,


Thanks so much for coming and seeing the fruits of my EXTREMELY sleep deprived hard work for the last week and a half. I really appreciate the nice words you said and you are truly one hell of a stand up guy.


Unfortunately, being so damn busy, I only got 2 pictures and both look horrible. Hopefully, Art, thank God took a few so maybe he can post them when he gets a chance if they worked out.


I cannot get over when we were in the demo together with Art and looking at your faces when we did the King Kong scene from the end of the movie when he gets killed. Priceless.


I hope everyone was happy with the demo material picked and enjoyed what I truly feel is 1 of 2 of the best projected images I have ever seen in home theater.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Clarence stopped in on the way back to Virginia.................. what a class act and such a bright man. He wanted to see my room but was demoed out and I understand. My expectations ,as I told him , were very different than the deliberate ,even ,soft spoken gentleman I finally had the good fortune to meet.
> 
> 
> Our time was short but I certainly appreciate the fact that he came to my home.
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> I enjoyed very much last night ..the Chicago guys are just such a great bunch of warm, genuine , bright guys. Thanks for inviting me. Oh yea ,your not exaggerating about your wife..I'm sorry,or maybe I'm not, she is lucious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art'



Thanks much Art. I'm really happy that you enjoyed yourself and you could not be more right about the Chicago/midwest/michigan group of HT enthusiasts. What an incredibly enjoyable and extremely friendly and caring bunch of people.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not worried at all Tim. My unit is very stable. I was just curious what difficulties they were facing.



Gino,


There were actually MANY factors that played into issues that I ran into BUT......


The end result was JAW DROPPING and that is all that mattered.


One problem I will admit that I did run into was my dumb self thought both of my G90's were running the latest firmware and it ended up not being the case. After several unsuccesful attempts to flash the one that was running older firmware, I had to give up and just accept the situation to be what it was.


Trust me though, in the end, it did not take away at all from the experience.


One more thing I will also add is I DID NOT have enough time with the Zilla before the meet to REALLY be able to understand how it works and was forced to "rush" the setup to get to my deadline.


Also, I cant remember if it was you or Andres that said that you can do this setup in one day, but no way. Not possible...........










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gino
> 
> 
> Relax pal, the demo unit was a very early sample........



Tim,


Thank you again for making this possible. We both, not knowing each other at all, managed to get together to make this happen and it worked and worked well.


I'm sure that everyone is aware, especially the antendee's the difficulty and extreme hard work that was involved in getting the theater in an acceptable shape to be able to make the experience what it really needed to be in order to truly show in all ways the benefit of what CRT is capable of and this had to in every way shape and form be taken care of or the meet would NOT have been a success.


Properly making a room that is not even half finished to be able to exploit this is next to impossible in a week and a half especially considering the fact that I JUST MOVED IN, have 3 wonderful kids and a beautiful and loving wife that has been so patient while being so busy with handling the rest of making sure that the things that I did not have time to do were taken care of. What an exeptional and Patient Woman she is. I sometimes find myself thinking that I dont deserve her and I honestly do not think that I would even be here right now if it wasn't for her.


Enough rambling.......


Thanks again Tim.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

I want to add my thoughts of the Pearl to the thread and also thank Ryan from The Little Guys in Glenwood IL for spending the time to calibrate and tweak his Pearl for my room and screen to be able to demo it for the meet.


You seriously ROCK Ryan, thanks again, I seriously OWE YOU DINNER, and onto my thoughts:


First of all, the Pearl and the SMX material got along VERY well. No issues at all to speak of and I was blown away at how much light the Pearl was able to produce on such a large screen.


Just so everyone can get an idea of the seating arrangement of the meet, there was one row of seating just SLIGHTLY over one screen width of that massive screen in a room that is only 13ft wide.


From that seating distance, SDE was absolutely NO ISSUE at all and I am VERY happy to FINALLY see digital get to this accomplishment. Very cool.


Kipp is correct about the panel misalignment and it was very noticable at that distance and this particular unit would not be acceptable for me at all.


Once I put that aside though, I was actually very impressed with what I saw blacks set aside and it is getting close everyone, very, very, very close to the point that digital will be able to throw an image that I will be happy with. I give it 2 to 3 years........


Ryan,


Once again thank you so much for putting up with me and spending your own personal time to make the Pearl demo happen. You are exceptional..........


Sony on the other hand right now though.... Well....... I just leave it at that.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yeah, we got SOME fun now on the 'sunset' side of the pond.
> 
> 
> Talk about your magic or golden hour...



John, thanks for coming. My wife really got a kick out of you and spoke much of you.


I was very glad to meet you.


Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Also, I cant remember if it was you or Andres that said that you can do this setup in one day, but no way. Not possible...........



Cliff, It was me, and it is possible.







But you must remember that the level you guys do it to is likely much more comprehensive than mine, I'm completely self taught here without seeing it done right by someone else... and also I've done it 4 times already. It did not take me one day the first time, let me tell you that, and my first go of it was nowhere near where I can get it to now, and definitely nowhere near where you guys got it to. I'll still stick by one full day though, I'm going to spend 2 hours each night of this week setting up the blend again for my larger screen. I bet I can do it by the end of the week, hopefully half as good as yours.










EDIT: I'm sure Ken's colour calibration took sometime too. Something that I havent factored into that one day










I don't know if this was mentioned already... but 1024p or 1200p?? 60/72 Hz?? I remember you had 1024p as you were having problems with 1200p, but did you get it to work in the end? Also, how were your sources connected, directly to the DVX or did you try going through the VP30 first?


----------



## antorsae

Cliff...


Even not having attended, I'd like to thank you for putting the meet together. Those images and comments serve as inspiration for a lot of us that cannot make it, and like Gino, go to the forum every night (morning in my case) to see the progress. I'd also like to thank the long-term CRT enthusiasts that have helped me (and countless others) in our CRT adventures: Clarence, Tim, Art, MP, cm, etc...


Regards!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I'm sure Ken's colour calibration took sometime too. Something that I havent factored into that one day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if this was mentioned already... but 1024p or 1200p?? 60/72 Hz?? I remember you had 1024p as you were having problems with 1200p, but did you get it to work in the end? Also, how were your sources connected, directly to the DVX or did you try going through the VP30 first?



Gino,


That is exactly what I speak of. The time it takes for full calibration, geometry, and blendzone tweaking........










In the end, I had to run 1024P/60. I desperately wanted to run 1200P but I was unable to make it happen in time........


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *antorsae* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff...
> 
> 
> Even not having attended, I'd like to thank you for putting the meet together. Those images and comments serve as inspiration for a lot of us that cannot make it, and like Gino, go to the forum every night (morning in my case) to see the progress. I'd also like to thank the long-term CRT enthusiasts that have helped me (and countless others) in our CRT adventures: Clarence, Tim, Art, MP, cm, etc...
> 
> 
> Regards!



Not too shabby for a "RUSH" job to get it all done in time huh?

















Cliffy


----------



## sandbagger

Cliff


I am finaly recovered enough from the weekend to make a post


Thanks for putting this on. I was amazed at the amount of work you were able to get done in such a short time.... The image was one of the best I have ever seen ( I am a regular at arts) I was amazed at how much of a 3d image that was being produced and was really impressed with the screen. If I ever have a need for an acousticly transparent screen I know what I will be getting.


I just wished I had gotten an earlier start on the day after partying at Bells Beer all day friday. And I had to get going after just a short time due to another GTG up almost to wisconson(2hr drive).


Clarence.... Bells does have some good beers eh?


----------



## lewis

I was really impressed by the 'apparent increase' in sharpness of the smx screen compared to the piece of paper. Would it make sense to get this material even if its not required for acoustic properties. Cliff do you have any Stewart screen samples to see how the effect translates to non-acoustically transparent material.


Also someone on the screens forum said they looked closely through a magnifying glass and couldn't see any directional weave properties. In other words the material could be put on its side and get the same image. Do you agree? Would make it a lot cheaper as the material comes 98" wide.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Well, Clarence stopped in on the way back to Virginia.................. what a class act and such a bright man. He wanted to see my room but was demoed out and I understand. My expectations ,as I told him , were very different than the deliberate ,even ,soft spoken gentleman I finally had the good fortune to meet.
> 
> 
> Our time was short but I certainly appreciate the fact that he came to my home.



I had a chance to see Arli's and then Art's theaters on my journey home.


I wonder if anyone else has ever seen *six* 9" CRTs... all set-up by Ken Whitcomb... in 4 different states (travelled through 8 total: IN, IL, MI, OH, PA, MD, WV, VA)... all within 24 hours!














Cliff's blend, Art's stack, Arli's sweet 10PG, and finally home to the solo G90 hanging from my ceiling.


Art, I was glad to finally meet you. Thanks so much for inviting me over to see your HT. I felt like I'd already been there after following your construction threads so closely for the past 3+ years... and I felt like I already knew your family too. I had high expectations... you, your family, your G90 stack, and your theater all exceeded my expectations. I feel privileged to be the first to experience the power coming from your new subs.


What a great trip and a fun vacation! I don't know how Cliff is still standing after several weeks of that pace.


Cliff, you pulled it off. Damn nice results! Now crawl into bed with that hottie wife and stay there for at least 3 days.


----------



## dc_pilgrim




> Quote:
> Also someone on the screens forum said they looked closely through a magnifying glass and couldn't see any direction weave properties.



With a digital projector it moired at 1080p (ruby) when using the 98" as width. No moire the other way or tilted. Not a CRT problem though . . .


It is pretty symetrical to my eyes, so the perceived sharpness benefit may transfer. I have 4 yards of it sitting in my basement waiting for my contractors to get me some bids.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was really impressed by the 'apparent increase' in sharpness of the smx screen compared to the piece of paper. Would it make sense to get this material even if its not required for acoustic properties. Cliff do you have any Stewart screen samples to see how the effect translates to non-acoustically transparent material.
> 
> 
> Also someone on the screens forum said they looked closely through a magnifying glass and couldn't see any directional weave properties. In other words the material could be put on its side and get the same image. Do you agree? Would make it a lot cheaper as the material comes 98" wide.



That's something many people (even with digital projectors) experience with the SmX. The tiny perfs on the SmX perceive the image to be sharper. You don't really get that effect with a solid or microperf screen because the perfs are too big and spaced to far apart


The perforation in the SmX is about 1/3rd the size of a microperf screen. In fact, for every 65 holes on lets say, a Stewart Microperf, the SMX has 182 perforations/sound holes that are about 1/3rd the size.


This is a huge benefit for CRT users that have that softer image and want to sharpen it up.


Here is an enlarged comparison of the differences of the Stewart Microperf perforation compared to the Smx perforation. Keep in mind that the Stewart Microperf is .02" in size which is extremely small.












Ruben


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *sandbagger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff
> 
> 
> I am finaly recovered enough from the weekend to make a post
> 
> 
> Thanks for putting this on. I was amazed at the amount of work you were able to get done in such a short time.... The image was one of the best I have ever seen ( I am a regular at arts) I was amazed at how much of a 3d image that was being produced and was really impressed with the screen. If I ever have a need for an acousticly transparent screen I know what I will be getting.
> 
> 
> I just wished I had gotten an earlier start on the day after partying at Bells Beer all day friday. And I had to get going after just a short time due to another GTG up almost to wisconson(2hr drive).
> 
> 
> Clarence.... Bells does have some good beers eh?



Kevin,


It was good to see you again! I feel the same way about being a regular at Art's. His image is the ONLY one I have ever seen that stands next to what we pulled off.










Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Cliff, you pulled it off. Damn nice results! Now crawl into bed with that hottie wife and stay there for at least 3 days.



My friend, you are STELLAR. Thank you so much for all of your help and taking the time to come out and chill with your bud.










I'm really looking foward to doing it again one day soon...... Just like I said before, now it's my turn.










Believe it or not, I STILL feel like crap. I'm hoping by tomorrow things improve a bit, but then the next nightmare happens.........










I went and picked up the patch and some nicotine gum a little while ago and I think about tomorrow mid day is when I'm going to take the plunge.


Talk to you soon Clarence.


Cliffy


P.S. POST SOME MORE SHOTS!!!!!!


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Ruben,

I'm not up to speed on the SMX at least completely. Will you have some gain choices in the future ?


Art


----------



## Gannon

Cliff,


Thanks, and back-atcha.


I think it started when I asked her if she really understood the magnitude of what we were attempting down there, and made the analogy that it was like being gifted the ability to test drive an old Ferrari with a few modern touches...


...and thanked her for letting us consume her house for the day publicly and for all she endured while you, Clarence, and the rest of the guys were assembling everything.



I also asked her to give you a little slack on her expectations on any other project that would need to be done in the future...and that what happened last week was more than superhuman.



Heh, y'all know how to throw a party...




Cheers!


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Ruben,
> 
> I'm not up to speed on the SMX at least completely. Will you have some gain choices in the future ?
> 
> 
> Art



Right now, SMX is a 1.2 gain (1.16 to be exact) and at this moment (as far as I know) SmX is the highest gain weaved AT material on the market. Everyday I am experimenting with new ideas so if something with higher gain comes about, I will let you know.


Hey by the way, aren't you holding the blendzilla people shots, where are they? Seems like we've been waiting forever to see them










Ruben


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lewis* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Would it make sense to get this material even if its not required for acoustic properties.



I pondered the same thing all week. I won't put my speakers behind the screen because I don't want to move the screen a couple of feet closer to the seats... the seats are already close enough. If Ruben can send me a half screen sample, I'll do a side-by-side comparison with my current favorite screen (laminate).



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> P.S. POST SOME MORE SHOTS!!!!!!



Well, here's the rest... I'd selected what I thought was the better half when I posted the original batch.


Everyone is probably tired of King Kong and The Incredibles, but that's all we managed to get at 4am after the meet.


So here are the "rejects"...


I included Cliff's foot in this picture (lower-left corner) because otherwise I can't recall him sitting down too much the whole week:










This is Cliff frantically trying to turn down the volume when his wife came down at 4am...



















She's about to ask us if this outfit makes her butt look big

















Actually, this whole scene with the monorail going through the jungle and into the tunnel was frickin' incredible on Cliff's setup. Maybe my favorite. Deeeep, pure blacks with no loss of detail in the shadows... amazing. Simply beautiful.


----------



## Kysersose

WOW! Great pics!


----------



## overclkr

I'm speechless. Those shots are SO INDICATIVE of what Clarence and I drooled over for 3 days. :^)


The morning (4am) after the meet I was just like oh yeah, oohhhh, get that one big dog it's perfect....... :^)


You rock Clarence!!


Cliffy


----------



## HoustonHoyaFan

WOW!, WOW! WOW!


did I say


WOW!!!


----------



## dropzone7

Cliff, those shots look fantastical!!







Clarence and his little "cheapocam" take a great screenshot! I hope you are recovering from the sleep deprivation, CRT hangover and all the excitement! Great job pulling this off in such short time and bringing so much talent together in one place. Wish I could have been there. Hopefully Clarence will have a CRT meet sometime because I know where he lives










Rex


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Let me know when your done with the DF board Cliff till then have fun playing


----------



## Clarence

A lot of people are asking about the technique and settings I used to take these screenshots.


The camera is a Canon S80 point and shoot. It's 8MP, but I had the 4MP Canon S45 before it and it works just as well.


Put it on a *tripod* behind the center seat, or anywhere roughly under the green lense if you're using one projector.


Set the ISO to the lowest setting that your camera has. I used *ISO 50* for these screenshots. When you halve the ISO, you have to double the exposure time. So ISO 50 needs 8x the shutter time as the normal ISO 400 that most cameras use. But with ISO 50, you'll get less film grain or digital noise. ISO 400 or ISO 800 would be better for hand-held or with moving subjects or action shots, but since we're pausing the movie, movement is not a concern.


Turn the *flash off*.


I use the *2-sec timer delay* so the camera doesn't shake and cause blur when I push the shutter button. I use the 10 sec delay if I want to run up to the screen and get in the picture.


I leave everything else on Auto.... *Auto focus and AWB*. If I'm doing direct comparisons on screen gain between various screen materials, then I would use a fixed white balance and use the exact same exposure settings.


For these pictures, with the lowest ISO=50 setting, shutter times varied from 0.6, 0.8, or even a full sec.


One improvement that I've learned recently is *do NOT zoom in* to try to fill the screen image in the viewfinder. I used to do this, but the lense on digicams give barrel distortion when you zoom, so the edges of my screen would look curved.


Then just *crop* the extra black space out of the picture and *resize* it... Cliff wanted 1024 wide for these. I usually use 640 or 800.


IMHO, photoshop should never be used to "tweak" the screenshots.


If they're under 640 pixels you can attach them to your posts, or if larger, upload to your webserver, or use http://imageshack.us 


That's it.


----------



## CaspianM

I actually was wondering about the photo gear used.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> A lot of people are asking about the technique and settings I used to take these screenshots.
> 
> 
> The camera is a Canon S80 point and shoot. It's 8MP, but I had the 4MP Canon S45 before it and it works just as well.
> 
> 
> Put it on a *tripod* behind the center seat, or anywhere roughly under the green lense if you're using one projector.
> 
> 
> Set the ISO to the lowest setting that your camera has. I used *ISO 50* for these screenshots. When you halve the ISO, you have to double the exposure time. So ISO 50 needs 8x the shutter time as the normal ISO 400 that most cameras use. But with ISO 50, you'll get less film grain or digital noise. ISO 400 or ISO 800 would be better for hand-held or with moving subjects or action shots, but since we're pausing the movie, movement is not a concern.
> 
> 
> Turn the *flash off*.
> 
> 
> I use the *2-sec timer delay* so the camera doesn't shake and cause blur when I push the shutter button. I use the 10 sec delay if I want to run up to the screen and get in the picture.
> 
> 
> I leave everything else on Auto.... *Auto focus and AWB*. If I'm doing direct comparisons on screen gain between various screen materials, then I would use a fixed white balance and use the exact same exposure settings.
> 
> 
> For these pictures, with the lowest ISO=50 setting, shutter times varied from 0.6, 0.8, or even a full sec.
> 
> 
> One improvement that I've learned recently is *do NOT zoom in* to try to fill the screen image in the viewfinder. I used to do this, but the lense on digicams give barrel distortion when you zoom, so the edges of my screen would look curved.
> 
> 
> Then just *crop* the extra black space out of the picture and *resize* it... Cliff wanted 1024 wide for these. I usually use 640 or 800.
> 
> 
> IMHO, photoshop should never be used to "tweak" the screenshots.
> 
> 
> If they're under 640 pixels you can attach them to your posts, or if larger, upload to your webserver, or use http://imageshack.us
> 
> 
> That's it.



Sorry Clarence, I thought you were using that little $19 camera to take those like you did some of your great looking shots with. I guess that shows how good that little camera is or how I don't know what I'm talking about! Probably the later!


----------



## Phil Smith




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> One improvement that I've learned recently is *do NOT zoom in* to try to fill the screen image in the viewfinder. I used to do this, but the lense on digicams give barrel distortion when you zoom, so the edges of my screen would look curved.



Photoshop!


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sorry Clarence, I thought you were using that little $19 camera to take those like you did some of your great looking shots with. I guess that shows how good that little camera is or how I don't know what I'm talking about! Probably the later!



I brought it with me and meant to take some pics with it, but never did. That $19 mini-cam only takes 640x480 though, so they'd be


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Not sure about question No.1 but here is a link to answer question No.2. I am definately getting 3 yards of that stuff when it comes time to set up my CRT unit. Looks great!
> 
> http://www.smxscreen.com/smx-ordering.html



Thanks dropzone. I looked at this web page and it says the SMX material normally comes 98" wide, but that is only about 8 foot. So I am wondering how the installers of this meet got 10 foot wide out this screen without turning it the wrong way? Did you do the 98" from top to bottom and then use 4 yards the other way? If I understand correctly that means you actually put it up backwards but still did not have a moire problem? Reason I ask is because my screen is 7' high x 11' wide and I would rather ask first before I order.


The other thing I am still concerned about is the vibration issue. Is it better to stretch the fabric and have it completely open to the speakers or should I leave my screen (which is just a painted wall) as it is and just cut out holes for where the speakers can go? Seems to me the screen would move less that way. Or am I worrying about something that doesn't really matter? Unlike Cliffs basement, I only have about 1-1/2 feet from my screen wall to the basement concrete wall, so not very much headroom for the speakers. My lack of headroom means the cones are going to be even closer to the material.


I apologize for being OT but wanted to ask the members who did this meet exactly how you installed the screen while it is still fresh on everyones mind. I figure my 7 x 11 dimension is probably pretty close to what you just did and I am really excited about the opportunity to get audio behind the screen and sharpness increased too.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> the SMX material normally comes 98" wide, but that is only about 8 foot. So I am wondering how the installers of this meet got 10 foot wide out this screen without turning it the wrong way?



There is no "wrong" way... the weave is non-directional. Look at my close-up picture:










The weave will look exactly the same, even if you turn it 90, 180, or 270 degrees. Or mount it at a slight angle to avoid moire on horizontal or vertical lines.


So 8' wide became 8' high for Cliff's screen when rotated 90 degrees.



> Quote:
> I am really excited about the opportunity to get audio behind the screen and sharpness increased too.



I still think some comparisons need to be done between solid screens vs perforated woven screens before we can consider the perceived sharpness effect as a benefit to get excited about.


Sure, it seems to be a very nice material. Especially if you want to put your speakers behind it. But with a limited amount of gain. Plus a visible weave that I could see (barely) on a solid white field from 1x seating distance... something that I've critiqued d!%!#@| projectors for years. So I'm not sure a similar effect (artifical sharpness with SDE) becomes a benefit when it occurs with CRT.


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sure, it seems to be a very nice material. Especially if you want to put your speakers behind it. But with a limited amount of gain. Plus a visible weave that I could see (barely) on a solid white field from 1x seating distance... something that I've critiqued d!%!#@| projectors for years. So I'm not sure a similar effect (artifical sharpness with SDE) becomes a benefit when it occurs with CRT.



That kind of scares me now because I normally sit even a little closer than 1x. Is the weave you mention the holes you see in the screenshot or is this some other kind of effect of the material?


When I sit in a commericial theater I often times can see the holes in their screen which doesn't bother me at all. But screendoor effect would sure bother the hell out of me. I don't have any now and I sure as hell don't want any either.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Say Clarence


How tall was the green S? The holes look sharp but edges of the S are comparable on either side, eh?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How tall was the green S? The holes look sharp but edges of the S are comparable on either side, eh?



That "S" is from a standard G90 menu (at 1024p60 before EM focus).


For comparison, here's a picture from my G90's menu (originally intended to show how I can't display 1080p from the X360 without getting wrap-around on the raster when shifting)... the characters should be relatively the same size.











Looks like the characters are about half of the height of a crosshatch pattern...

There are 12 vertical grids.


So for Cliff's 135"x76" screen... 76"/24, that "S" was about 3" tall.


The "S" in the extreme macro screenshot is green because the Red and Blue were muted on Cliff's projector when we took that picture.


I have a small sample of the SmX material here. I'd estimate that there are about 30 of those weave holes every linear inch... so about 900 "holes" per square inch.


I also asked Ken about the weave when he was converging. He admitted it was tougher to see. I think he was doing a lot of adjust too high, then adjust too low, then split the difference. He said he'd tape solid white paper to each of the zones next time.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Point taken when Ken comes up to do my setup I'll have my no weave screen in







then when he has finished I'll take the screen out an put the frame back up, so he can tweak the gray scale etc on the SMX.


If that would make it easier for him.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There is no "wrong" way... the weave is non-directional. Look at my close-up picture:
> 
> 
> The weave will look exactly the same, even if you turn it 90, 180, or 270 degrees. Or mount it at a slight angle to avoid moire on horizontal or vertical lines.



The SmX is directional. This was discovered by Mark P, he hung the material using the 98" as the width and had Moiré with his Digital Projections Mercury Projector. Once he rotated the SmX 90 degrees (so the 98" was the height of the screen) the moiré was gone. Then another 1080 digital projector user had a moiré issue when he used 98" as the width of his screen. Once he got word about the directional of the material, he rotated it and the moiré was gone.


So yes, the SmX is directional. None of this matters with a CRT user because CRT does not have fixed pixels.


Also, rotating the SmX material 10-15-20% eliminates moire for anyone who may possibly have a moiré issue when using it in the proper direction. This has been experimented with many times.


Clarence, PM me your address and I can get you out a half screen sample to test with.


Ruben


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So yes, the SmX is directional. None of this matters with a CRT user because CRT does not have fixed pixels.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruben



Ruben, that was very confusing to me because I thought your measurement of width meant horizontal not vertical. I just attempted to email you using the address on your site but for some reason it came back to me undeliverable. Could you email me at [email protected] or PM me here?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *SandmanX* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So yes, the SmX is directional.



Interesting. Looking at the weave, I don't see how.


I wonder if Mark P only got a reduced Moiré effect due to some coincidental non-parallel angular shift (i.e., an accidental slight tilt) when he remounted? I haven't read up on this stuff at all.


If I cut a perfect square out of this stuff, what test could be used to determine H vs V orientation? (Aside from, "if you notice Moiré, turn it 90 degrees").


Has anyone suggested that there's a "front" side and a "back" side?


I look forward to comparing a larger sample.


----------



## Clarence

Here's SmX scanned at 1200dpi, reduced 25% (to 300dpi)...











Note how each strand of the horizontal weave seems to have an indentation or mark down the middle that isn't as prominent in the vertical strands?


Next step... rotate this sample 90 degrees and see if that indentation persists with the physical orientation of the material, or is it dependent on the incident light from the scan?


----------



## Clarence

Nope... when rotated 90 degrees, the perceived prominence is still horizontal:


----------



## Clarence

So, of course, the next logical test would be 45 degrees...


And yes, as your hypothesis probably predicted, the horizontal and vertical weaves approach equal prominence:


----------



## SmX

Now try 15 - 20 degrees


----------



## Gannon

Are we discovering a limitation in the imager for the CAMERA here?!


Very curious NOW, I'll need to see how this material responds to polarized light from the LCD-class of projectors.


DLP doesn't mess with polarization...neither do CRTs.


Just another curiosity on the shallow, slow part of learning curve.


Heh.



Cheers!


----------



## Gannon

I take that back, the reflectance of DLPs 'might' mess with polarization...dunno for certain.


----------



## Gannon

Gimme two shots of the same material, but re-orient the CAMERA...not the material.


Let's check to see if the imager doesn't slop/chop the verticals.


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Gimme two shots of the same material, but re-orient the CAMERA...not the material.
> 
> 
> Let's check to see if the imager doesn't slop/chop the verticals.



First off so you know, what we are discussing here is moiré with digital projectors. This doesn't apply to CRT projector users or LCOS/SXRD.


With todays perforated screens and fixed pixel DLP and LCD digital projectors, moiré is a big concern. Moiré is caused when the pixel grid or screen door of the digital projector lines up with the perforation pattern of the screen. When the pixel grid and screen perf pattern allign and slightly misalign, it creates a moiré effect to the projected image on bright scenes (mostly bright sky, bright water, and snow scenes). Here is a sample of really bad Moiré Notice the vertical curvy waves in the image.


The smaller and more random the screen perf pattern, the less likely to moiré. Usually moiré is an issue with 1080 projectors and projected screen sizes under 84" due to the extremely small pixel size being more subjective to line up with the perf pattern. That is why slight rotation of the SmX material is recommended on smaller screens and higher res PJs because it makes the directional perf pattern non directional or less likely to line up with the PJ's screen door.


Stewart also rotates their micro perf and perf material to help fight moiré.


I learned about moiré the expensive way by buying a perforated screen without realizing some screen companies don't care about moiré. I ended up returning the screen and got charged a huge restocking fee and shipping charges both ways. That's when I started my quest to put together the SmX.


Ruben


----------



## Gannon

Necessity being the Mother she is...



I theorized this with early fixed-pixels, might've warned people about it way back in the Sim2 200 Dual Mode review with Stereophile Guide to Home Theater.


Funny thing? Back then, EVERY manufacturer and even TI (off the record, or course) told me it would be LESS of a problem as the resolution increased in the projectors!


Heh, never believed 'em...now I've proof. Thanks, Ruben!



Over the years, TI has zero credibility with me regarding every single issue I've ever had with their flickering panels...but going against them is like calling out the NSA.



You probably won't hear from me again...


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Necessity being the Mother she is...
> 
> 
> 
> I theorized this with early fixed-pixels, might've warned people about it way back in the Sim2 200 Dual Mode review with Stereophile Guide to Home Theater.
> 
> 
> Funny thing? Back then, EVERY manufacturer and even TI (off the record, or course) told me it would be LESS of a problem as the resolution increased in the projectors!
> 
> 
> Heh, never believed 'em...now I've proof. Thanks, Ruben!
> 
> 
> 
> Over the years, TI has zero credibility with me regarding every single issue I've ever had with their flickering panels...but going against them is like calling out the NSA.
> 
> 
> 
> You probably won't hear from me again...



The enlarged SMX shots Clarance posted above are much bigger than the actual smx weave size.


Here is a shot that is about the actual size of the SmX weave.

The left side is the SmX and the right side is a Stewart Micro Perf. I had to put black material behind the SMX in order to scan it properly so please disregard the dark holes.


This gives you an idea how small the weaves and perfs are.












Ruben


----------



## Gannon

I've scanned and posted NOTHING of the sort...yer honor, I'm being dragged into this unwillingly AND unknowingly...


----------



## Gannon

...ooh, I get it. False accusation, the first line of defense whenever anyone publicly attacks anything within the military/industrial complex...sure.


----------



## dropzone7

I thought this was Cliff's Blendzilla thread anyway. If it's going to turn into a SMX/Stewart/perf/microperf screen debate then should'nt someone probably start a new thread for that? Granted, it's not totally off topic since this was the material used at the meet but I would just hate to see Cliff's thread turn into anything other than the fun-loving thing it is.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've scanned and posted NOTHING of the sort...yer honor, I'm being dragged into this unwillingly AND unknowingly...



LOL John, I think he was talking about Clarence.


Just so you guys know, we saw no moire affect at all what so ever when Ryan from The Little Guys did his Pearl demo on Ruben's Screen. We were actually pleasantly suprised at the light output and lack of SDE.


Like I've said SEVERAL times in this thread, for Accoustically Transparent screens, this is BY FAR THE BEST screen material I have EVER seen.


Ruben, I have to apologize, but between my fried brain, and body, and total chaos in my head during the meet, I forgot to give out screen samples to everyone. I'm terribly sorry.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

One more thing I would like to add in regards to the SMX screen's durability.......


2 days before the meet, I finally got my audio hooked up and placed my KLF30's on top of each SVS PB/12, and forgot to place a buffer in between them. Needless to say, I popped in the Dark Side of the Moon Quad on DVD/A and because of lack of great sound for the last 3 months, I ended up playing it too loud and guess what happened.......










One of the KLF30's rattled off of my sub and smacked to the floor taking the center channel with it. It hit the screen and put a 2ft gash straight down the midde.










Guess what? You can't even see it on the projected side of the image at all what so ever anywhere........
























That is a testament to how AWESOME this material is.


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought this was Cliff's Blendzilla thread anyway. If it's going to turn into a SMX/Stewart/perf/microperf screen debate then should'nt someone probably start a new thread for that? Granted, it's not totally off topic since this was the material used at the meet but I would just hate to see Cliff's thread turn into anything other than the fun-loving thing it is.



I thought about that too when I started replying to questions about the SmX, but now that the meet is over and the Blendzilla demo unit is getting sent back to Tim, all we're left to talk about is the setup and components.


Cliff could probably start a new thread for the next phase of his HT, now that the blendzilla demo is over.


The projectors and screen will be the same. But instead of a blend, he'll be doing a stack. The SmX screen size will probably go down from 11'3" to 10' wide.


I've suggested moving the screen wall back a bit more... if he turns his subs sideways and moves the door to behind the center channel, then he could have at least 2 more feet, maybe up to 6 more feet (if he builds the wall as close to the furnace as allowed). This will allow the 2nd row to be on a riser and not against the rear wall.


Cliff needs to do everything in his power to contain sound in that room. He likes volume and he likes his music... but his wife and kids are usually in bed before he can sit down and crank the system.


After midnight, turn off the subs and switch to Bass Shakers under the riser.


He's already planning a 2nd layer of drywall. And staggered studs, plus a separate double wall where the HT shares a wall with the rest of the basement.


Look into CertaSound insulation in all walls and joists, Green Glue (GG), Integrity Gaskets (IG), USG Acoustical Caulk between all floor/wall/ceiling seams, airtight recessed cans, putty sealed receptacle boxes, flexible duct instead of those metal ducts, plus Linacoustic duct liner... both within the duct and as sound treatment inside the room.


And those ceiling mounts need to be rock solid. The 2x4's flexed whenever your kids ran across the floor upstairs. Ken was trying to align and converge and the grid lines were jumping over 1/4".


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought about that too when I started replying to questions about the SmX, but now that the meet is over and the Blendzilla demo unit is getting sent back to Tim, all we're left to talk about is the setup and components.
> 
> 
> Cliff could probably start a new thread for the next phase of his HT, now that the blendzilla demo is over.
> 
> 
> The projectors and screen will be the same. But instead of a blend, he'll be doing a stack. The SmX screen size will probably go down from 11'3" to 10' wide.
> 
> 
> I've suggested moving the screen wall back a bit more... if he turns his subs sideways and moves the door to behind the center channel, then he could have at least 2 more feet, maybe up to 6 more feet (if he builds the wall as close to the furnace as allowed). This will allow the 2nd row to be on a riser and not against the rear wall.
> 
> 
> Cliff needs to do everything in his power to contain sound in that room. He likes volume and he likes his music... but his wife and kids are usually in bed before he can sit down and crank the system.
> 
> 
> After midnight, turn off the subs and switch to Bass Shakers under the riser.
> 
> 
> He's already planning a 2nd layer of drywall. Look into CertaSound, Green Glue, USG Acoustical Caulk, flexible duct instead of those metal ducts, plus Linacoustic duct liner... both within the duct and as sound treatment inside the room.
> 
> 
> And those ceiling mounts need to be rock solid. The 2x4's flexed whenever your kids ran across the floor upstairs. Ken was trying to converge and the grid lines were jumping over 1/4".



Funny you should mention the sounds issues Clarence, I was just rereading your HT construction thread yesterday and looking at those green gaskets on the studs. Has that worked out well for you? I like Cliff, like my music and volume so when I get an opportunity I want to make my HT as sound containing as possible. Regarding the SMX, I hope I didn't speak out of turn but I could just sense a disturbance in the force if you know what I mean.










Oh yeah, how much did Cliff cry when the blending unit got pulled out? Poor guy.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I thought about that too when I started replying to questions about the SmX, but now that the meet is over and the Blendzilla demo unit is getting sent back to Tim, all we're left to talk about is the setup and components.
> 
> 
> Cliff could probably start a new thread for the next phase of his HT, now that the blendzilla demo is over.
> 
> 
> The projectors and screen will be the same. But instead of a blend, he'll be doing a stack. The SmX screen size will probably go down from 11'3" to 10' wide.
> 
> 
> I've suggested moving the screen wall back a bit more... if he turns his subs sideways and moves the door to behind the center channel, then he could have at least 2 more feet, maybe up to 6 more feet (if he builds the wall as close to the furnace as allowed). This will allow the 2nd row to be on a riser and not against the rear wall.
> 
> 
> Cliff needs to do everything in his power to contain sound in that room. He likes volume and he likes his music... but his wife and kids are usually in bed before he can sit down and crank the system.
> 
> 
> After midnight, turn off the subs and switch to Bass Shakers under the riser.
> 
> 
> He's already planning a 2nd layer of drywall. And staggered studs, plus a separate double wall where the HT shares a wall with the rest of the basement.
> 
> 
> Look into CertaSound insulation in all walls and joists, Green Glue (GG), Integrity Gaskets (IG), USG Acoustical Caulk between all floor/wall/ceiling seams, airtight recessed cans, putty sealed receptacle boxes, flexible duct instead of those metal ducts, plus Linacoustic duct liner... both within the duct and as sound treatment inside the room.
> 
> 
> And those ceiling mounts need to be rock solid. The 2x4's flexed whenever your kids ran across the floor upstairs. Ken was trying to align and converge and the grid lines were jumping over 1/4".



What a STARCH reminder Clarence of all of the work that still needs to be done in my basement...........










I'm sure as you could tell while you were here the withdrawl I have been through the last 3-4 months only for me to go through it again.










Arli and I will of course be in touch when the time comes to get going again. For now though, it's time for family and holiday.










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, how much did Cliff cry when the blending unit got pulled out? Poor guy.



I actually still have the unit here and should have it until next week. Tim and I are going to work on a few issues that I had during setup to see if they can be resolved.


Unfortunately, just as I was getting a bit of rest after the meet, I got inflicted with the stomach flu.










I'm getting better now though and will have some energy to jump back in for a bit before I send it back. Plus, I dont want to run it too long in sake of my minty tubes!


Cliff


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I was just rereading your HT construction thread yesterday and looking at those green gaskets on the studs. Has that worked out well for you?



I liked the Integrity Gaskets and I'd use them again. It was easy to install and a single case covered the whole room for $112...

 


Cliff already has a single layer of sheetrock on the walls, but he could still use the gaskets on the ceiling if he wanted to.


A fun test was to screw 2 sheets of drywall to the studs... with and without the gaskets. Bang on the drywall with the ball of your fist and compare the "BOOM!" vs "thud".


----------



## SmX




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've scanned and posted NOTHING of the sort...yer honor, I'm being dragged into this unwillingly AND unknowingly...



Oh it was my mistake, sorry Ganon. I was half asleep last night and I meant to say Clarance, as he was the one that scanned the SmX and enlarged it with a ruler next to it. I was just pointing out to everyone that the SmX weave is not as big and beefy as what Clarance posted so thus why I posted the more life sized comparison picture.


Sorry about all the confusion, I will go back and edit that post to change the name.

I promise to post when I am more awake from now on










Ruben


----------



## Gannon

There were HANDOUTS and door prizes?!



But h e l l yeah, we had fun.


----------



## Gannon

DON'T edit it, you lose the setup for the joke!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> There were HANDOUTS and door prizes?!
> 
> 
> 
> But h e l l yeah, we had fun.



Yes. I had 2 posters from Tim and also SMX samples but I'm sure you understand considering the circumstances.










Everything got pimped though, so I think THAT is what is important! :^)


Cliff


----------



## dropzone7

Cliff or Clarence, I'm curious if anything was displayed from the Xbox360 during the meet. I recall reading about some issues with a PS3 and I'm also aware of the 360's problem with 1080p shifting the picture, not to mention that you guys were running everything at 1024p anyway so I was not sure if you had a chance to try the 360's HD-DVD drive or not?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dropzone7* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff or Clarence, I'm curious if anything was displayed from the Xbox360 during the meet. I recall reading about some issues with a PS3 and I'm also aware of the 360's problem with 1080p shifting the picture, not to mention that you guys were running everything at 1024p anyway so I was not sure if you had a chance to try the 360's HD-DVD drive or not?




The DVX does have H Phase or picture centering but I have not tested the range of adjustment, it is some number of microseconds of left/right correction.


----------



## Clarence

IIRC, we tried my X360 HDDVD, but got some weird diagonal noise in the picture, thin lines rolling slowly. We swapped to Cliff's VGA cable and it was still there. Aside from the diagonal noise, I don't recall if 1080p from the XBox displayed the entire picture, or if it had the same problem as I get here at home.


So for HDDVD, we just fed 1080i via component from the Toshiba HD-A1.


The PS3 at 1080P at Cliff's had the same problem... we could not get the entire image to display... the right 10%-20% of the image was cropped.


I don't think we were ever successful in feeding 1080p to the DVX. Only 1080i which it then scaled to [email protected] We were also unable to sucessfully get 1200P or 72Hz output from the DVX.


----------



## dropzone7




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> IIRC, we tried my X360 HDDVD, but got some weird diagonal noise in the picture, thin lines rolling slowly. We swapped to Cliff's VGA cable and it was still there. Aside from the diagonal noise, I don't recall if 1080p from the XBox displayed the entire picture, or if it had the same problem as I get here at home.
> 
> 
> So for HDDVD, we just fed 1080i via component from the Toshiba HD-A1.
> 
> 
> The PS3 at 1080P at Cliff's had the same problem... we could not get the entire image to display... the right 10%-20% of the image was cropped.
> 
> 
> I don't think we were ever successful in feeding 1080p to the DVX. Only 1080i which it then scaled to [email protected] We were also unable to sucessfully get 1200P or 72Hz output from the DVX.



Well, that's too bad, I would have been curious to see or hear of how the 360's HD drive looked on that super duper blended setup. I plan on using this drive for HD-DVD's fed to my NEC 9PG+ when I get it set up. Of course, I wont be doing anything near 1080p but again, this thread is the "dream realized" as far as CRT goes.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The PS3 at 1080P at Cliff's had the same problem... we could not get the entire image to display... the right 10%-20% of the image was cropped.




It would not be unusual to require Short Retrace setting in the G90s for signals over 60khz to avoid wrapping the image; I hope Cliffy has the energy to try that this week.


I will try 1200P tonite on my system and see what that does.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> require Short Retrace setting in the G90s for signals over 60khz to avoid wrapping the image



I know Short Retrace may be available on your Marquees, but I'm not familiar with that option on the G90.


Is it a setting that the DVX provides?


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Clarence


They hid it in a service menu for some reaason on the G90; I do not know if every PJ has the feature or if every firmware level gives access.


----------



## overclkr

Guys, I'm going to get the chance to revisit the issues we had tomorrow when Bomrat comes over and we can get the firmware updated on one of the G90's.


Thanks for bringing up and reminding me about the Xbox thing Clarence. I'm going to revisit this also........


Cliff


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> They hid it in a service menu for some reaason on the G90; I do not know if every PJ has the feature or if every firmware level gives access.



I thought I tried every setting in in the Service Menu and Expert Mode, but I didn't see Short Retrace. I'll look again.


I have v1.11, which I think it the latest and greatest.


Cliff has 1.11 on one and 1.02 on the other... he couldn't get pjupdate.exe to connect with the serial cable on his 2nd G90.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Yes for Cliff the construction adventure begins. I would strongly suggest two layers of Drywall, minium







and since the first layer is already up use green glue it does wonders. On the ceiling RSIC and Hat, two layers of 3/4 or 5/8 drywall with the green glue, isolate the Soffits and Lights with the RSIC Hangers. Enclose the Light Cans in MDF boxes lined with cement board this contains the sound leaks. I really don't hear too much bass out of the theater but as I scale to larger speakers well..., hell Arts Theater even bleeds out side his house, muhahaha.. With those Seton Subs I can only imagine...


Cliff has a hell of a resource when it comes to construction and friendship, Bomrat know his stuff. I'm sure he will be right by Cliffs side the whole way.


Oh use lots of R30 and R38 it sure helped me


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> hell Arts Theater even bleeds out side his house, muhahaha..



Yes, and even more so now with the Submersives.










Art


----------



## Gannon

Considering the circumstances, Cliffy, we're pretty amazed you survived!


They sure do make 'em tough in the Windy City.


So...are you going to get giggy with this over the weekend? It would not be hard for me to drive a bit south and west after that Saturday thing and hang out for a while.


You up for it, I'll pack my bedroll. Actually, I never took it out of the car.


I wouldn't mind spending some more time with the 'zilla before it goes back.


We're trying to get one setup for a spell in my studio, but I'm not sure I want to wait until March for my next fix.


Oh yeah...there IS January on the way to CES at Tim's...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gannon* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Considering the circumstances, Cliffy, we're pretty amazed you survived!
> 
> 
> They sure do make 'em tough in the Windy City.
> 
> 
> So...are you going to get giggy with this over the weekend? It would not be hard for me to drive a bit south and west after that Saturday thing and hang out for a while.
> 
> 
> You up for it, I'll pack my bedroll. Actually, I never took it out of the car.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't mind spending some more time with the 'zilla before it goes back.
> 
> 
> We're trying to get one setup for a spell in my studio, but I'm not sure I want to wait until March for my next fix.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah...there IS January on the way to CES at Tim's...



Not a problem John, but I might not be heading home until Sunday morning.


Cliffy


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> The projectors and screen will be the same. But instead of a blend, he'll be doing a stack. The SmX screen size will probably go down from 11'3" to 10' wide.
> 
> :



Why? Did he run out of throw or is there some other reason he has to go smaller? Is overall brightness expected to go down a bit for the stack?


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Plus, I dont want to run it too long in sake of my minty tubes!
> 
> 
> Cliff



If I was lucky enough to have a blended crt system, I think I would engineer a quick mounting provision for the projectors so that you could rotote them just like your tires every so many miles.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> If I was lucky enough to have a blended crt system, I think I would engineer a quick mounting provision for the projectors so that you could rotote them just like your tires every so many miles.



Say Bob


I do not see any reason to have to do that really..........


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Clarence
> 
> 
> They hid it in a service menu for some reaason on the G90; I do not know if every PJ has the feature or if every firmware level gives access.



Tim,


Can you provide any other clues about where you found this hidden menu for short retrace on a G90?


Or any G90 firmware version that provides a retrace setting?


I'm willing to back up to a previous firmware in order to test 1080p from the X360 if the short retrace setting that you've specified will display the complete image.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


Courtesy of Robert Busch.......


G90 Retrace



Hit Enter Enter Up Down Enter and toggle down to Short/Wide and select Short and select for sync "HP" or "HC"?


The DVX has H Size adjust good for five percent range of image width.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *tim* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Courtesy of Robert Busch.......
> 
> 
> G90 Retrace
> 
> 
> Hit Enter Enter Up Down Enter and toggle down to Short/Wide and select Short and select for sync "HP" or "HC"?



I tried every permutation of those a month ago when MS added 1080P to the X360, to no avail:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8899803 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've tried (in the expert service mode)...
> CLAMP: Auto, S on G, H/C, HP, Tri
> V SHIFT: Wide, Narrow (this helps with top/bottom of the grid, but not the left/right cut-off)
> SYNC ROUTE: Auto, Normal, Sync w V
> VIDEO LOCK: Normal, Wide (no diff AFAICT)



I re-tried them tonight, just in case anything had changed, but I still can't get the full left side of the 1080P image without the right side wrapping under.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I re-tried them tonight, just in case anything had changed, but I still can't get the full left side of the 1080P image without the right side wrapping under.



Big dog, does your scaler have underscan?


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

When I'm trying 1080P from the X360, I'm intentionally bypassing my Lumagen and send VGA->RGBHV directly to the projector.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> When I'm trying 1080P from the X360, I'm intentionally bypassing my Lumagen and send VGA->RGBHV directly to the projector.



I was just curious to see if I could accomplish the same with the VP30. I'll try later. Hell, I havent even turned on the G90's since Sunday and that was only for about 20 minutes.


Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

How can you not be watching that blended setup every chance you get before you dismantle it?!


I'm pretty much gonna give up on the X360's VGA 1080p.


1080i component into the Lumagen works just fine, but I just wanted to compare how the X360's direct 1080P would compare to the Lumagen's deinterlacing.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How can you not be watching that blended setup every chance you get before you dismantle it?!



I just now FINALLY TONIGHT about 30 minutes ago fired everything back up and am taking notes for the rest of the week. It took that long big dog for me to get my strength back.










Anywho, back to the make shift theater. I picked up Miami Vice and Field of Dreams on HD DVD after I returned that PIECE OF CRAP $70 Monster Component Cable for the PS3 to Circuit City tonight.......










Cliffy


----------



## kschmit2

Cliff,

did you ever try this pic?

preview:









link to full resolution version (lossless compression):
http://rapidshare.com/files/13778554...Mtestpic01.png 


Kai


----------



## slartibartfasst

So, did any of you notice any ANSI contrast artifacts?


I'm curious because I see the ANSI contrast issue as the best critique of CRT front projection, in theory. But in practice, with LC machines like the G90, is it an issue?


If you can't see the washout between two projectors splitting an image, I don't see why ANSI contrast is an problem/benefit. I know understanding doesn't equate to experience, so I'm curious as to whether those who understand and have experienced this torture-test of ANSI contrast see this as an issue.


----------



## Gino AUS

Cliff - I was setting up 1200P on my setup, and ran into a problem where the image was too wide, it would cut off maybe 10% of the picture. Even with adjusting size, and phase. And the DVX doesn't given an option to adjust timings to better fit the raster.


BUT - The solution!










1. Output Tab > Output format 1600x1200, Type of Screen 4:3

2. Image Main Tab > Press 'Centering' button, then it adjusts the Clk & Phase automatically

3. Set aspect ratio to '4/3 Standard' in the drop down list

4. Slide the H.size from 128 to anything smaller. 48 worked for me.


Let me know if this works for your G90's


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> So, did any of you notice any ANSI contrast artifacts?
> 
> 
> I'm curious because I see the ANSI contrast issue as the best critique of CRT front projection, in theory. But in practice, with LC machines like the G90, is it an issue?
> 
> 
> If you can't see the washout between two projectors splitting an image, I don't see why ANSI contrast is an problem/benefit. I know understanding doesn't equate to experience, so I'm curious as to whether those who understand and have experienced this torture-test of ANSI contrast see this as an issue.





Well, of course ANSI contrast is an issue compared to the highest ANSI fixed pixel devices. This is irrelevant to the blending since blending has no effect on it.


The wash out you speak of is least in great LC devices and IMO doesn't touch the image flattening that happens in devices that have less sequential than great CRT as an image quality parameter.


I've discussed this briefly with a few forum members but high sequential lower ANSI mimics what your eye does in real life so much more than the reverse. Look up at bright street light at night ,look up at a star field away from light polution. Extreme examples to be sure but think about it.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff - I was setting up 1200P on my setup, and ran into a problem where the image was too wide, it would cut off maybe 10% of the picture. Even with adjusting size, and phase. And the DVX doesn't given an option to adjust timings to better fit the raster.
> 
> 
> BUT - The solution!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Output Tab > Output format 1600x1200, Type of Screen 4:3
> 
> 2. Image Main Tab > Press 'Centering' button, then it adjusts the Clk & Phase automatically
> 
> 3. Set aspect ratio to '4/3 Standard' in the drop down list
> 
> 4. Slide the H.size from 128 to anything smaller. 48 worked for me.
> 
> 
> Let me know if this works for your G90's



Will give it a shot Gino. Arli is on his way now to help me get the firmware on one of the G90's flashed.


Cliff


----------



## slartibartfasst

Hi Art,


I suppose I should have been more specific; I'm not really concerned with sequential vs. ANSI contrast but simply whether the "washout" effect was perceptible between the two blended projectors, and using this as a point for assessing the overall impact of ANSI contrast on the perception of the projected image.


I'm going to have to disagree with you about ANSI being irrelevant to blending. I don't know where to jump in on this, so I'll just give an example. In the opening scene of most recent Star Wars movie, there is a scene where two small planes fly around a larger one. As the "camera" articulates around the ships, a proximate star comes into view around the tail of the larger ship. On one side of the image, then, there is the star, and on the other the shaded body of the larger ship. In my joke of a (air coupled) blend-setup, the star (displayed by the left projector) is bright enough cause washout in the image, and detracts perceptibly from the shadow detail in the shaded part of the larger ship (again, displayed on the left projector). The image presented by the right projector is composed entirely of a low IRE rendition of the shaded body of the ship, and presents an image unaffected by the ANSI contrast of the machine. This situation creates a perceptible discontinuity between the two projected fields.


The above example is the only time that I've noticed ANSI contrast artifacts in my blended set-up, above and beyond what a single CRT projector would inherently have. The thing is, in the case of a single projector (or a stack) ANSI contrast-induced "washout" is less of an issue because of the eye's limited ability to perceive simultaneous contrast. I've read figures of about 100:1 being the limit of our visual system's ability to discern, at any given point and over the perceived field. I can dig up a reference if you're interested. Point being, in single projector/stack the deficits in CRT are very likely minimally perceptible, but in a blend the variable washout effect between the two projectors can change the visual frame of reference and become an issue.


The question, in my mind, is whether the LC optical path mitigates the inherent problems of washout to the degree that it ceases to be perceptible in a blended system. I took a look at the tunnel scene in "The Incredibles" last night, and it provides a great metric to approach the question with. If the apparent washout didn't affect the enjoyment of that scene, then I would think that ANSI-contrast is not an issue in liquid coupled blending optical paths. But I didn't think it would hurt to ask.


Psycho-visual perception is one of my favorite subjects, and the reason why I got into projection technologies in the first place. If you're interested, I can send you a selection of articles relevant to this hobby of ours. What reading I've done leads me to agree with your conclusions about ANSI and sequential contrast, and that's one of the reasons why I've stayed with CRT front projection beyond all convenience and practicality.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hi Art,
> 
> 
> I suppose I should have been more specific; I'm not really concerned with sequential vs. ANSI contrast but simply whether the "washout" effect was perceptible between the two blended projectors, and using this as a point for assessing the overall impact of ANSI contrast on the perception of the projected image.
> 
> 
> I'm going to have to disagree with you about ANSI being irrelevant to blending. I don't know where to jump in on this, so I'll just give an example. In the opening scene of most recent Star Wars movie, there is a scene where two small planes fly around a larger one. As the "camera" articulates around the ships, a proximate star comes into view around the tail of the larger ship. On one side of the image, then, there is the star, and on the other the shaded body of the larger ship. In my joke of a (air coupled) blend-setup, the star (displayed by the left projector) is bright enough cause washout in the image, and detracts perceptibly from the shadow detail in the shaded part of the larger ship (again, displayed on the left projector). The image presented by the right projector is composed entirely of a low IRE rendition of the shaded body of the ship, and presents an image unaffected by the ANSI contrast of the machine. This situation creates a perceptible discontinuity between the two projected fields.
> 
> 
> The above example is the only time that I've noticed ANSI contrast artifacts in my blended set-up, above and beyond what a single CRT projector would inherently have. The thing is, in the case of a single projector (or a stack) ANSI contrast-induced "washout" is less of an issue because of the eye's limited ability to perceive simultaneous contrast. I've read figures of about 100:1 being the limit of our visual system's ability to discern, at any given point and over the perceived field. I can dig up a reference if you're interested. Point being, in single projector/stack the deficits in CRT are very likely minimally perceptible, but in a blend the variable washout effect between the two projectors can change the visual frame of reference and become an issue.
> 
> 
> The question, in my mind, is whether the LC optical path mitigates the inherent problems of washout to the degree that it ceases to be perceptible in a blended system. I took a look at the tunnel scene in "The Incredibles" last night, and it provides a great metric to approach the question with. If the apparent washout didn't affect the enjoyment of that scene, then I would think that ANSI-contrast is not an issue in liquid coupled blending optical paths. But I didn't think it would hurt to ask.
> 
> 
> Psycho-visual perception is one of my favorite subjects, and the reason why I got into projection technologies in the first place. If you're interested, I can send you a selection of articles relevant to this hobby of ours. What reading I've done leads me to agree with your conclusions about ANSI and sequential contrast, and that's one of the reasons why I've stayed with CRT front projection beyond all convenience and practicality.



That is why LC optics are costlier and sought after, the bounce back to the tube face is effectively squelched. Right John?


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I've read figures of about 100:1 being the limit of our visual system's ability to discern, at any given point and over the perceived field. I can dig up a reference if you're interested.



Just wanted to point out that although this number has gotten passed around, it is a completely bogus claim. I don't know if came from a 1/100 difference threshold in the CSF test, a limit of 100 levels, or from something else. But, in less than 5 minutes I can show how incorrect this is in a good room. As I mentioned, I'm not exactly sure where this got started, but tried to cover some of it with some tests you can run in my article on CR here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-4.html 


--Darin


----------



## antorsae




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> 
> Psycho-visual perception is one of my favorite subjects, and the reason why I got into projection technologies in the first place. If you're interested, I can send you a selection of articles relevant to this hobby of ours. What reading I've done leads me to agree with your conclusions about ANSI and sequential contrast, and that's one of the reasons why I've stayed with CRT front projection beyond all convenience and practicality.



Hi Slarti,


I'd be interested in those articles, please send them over.


----------



## overclkr

Guys,


Firmware for the one G90 flashing now.......


Hope I don't lose my settings....... :^)


Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Still attempting to see why a blended unit would be any different than single LC CRT. Where does blending effect ANSI contrast...except maybe and I say maybe right inside the blend zone. I still think it's an unimportant point.


The big deals here are light output, resolution and blend zone visibility.


Art


----------



## overclkr

Firmware succesfully flashed. Settings retained.


SWEET!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## slartibartfasst

Hi Art,


I think we're approaching the issue from different angles. I agree that blending doesn't affect ANSI contrast; but washout due to ANSI contrast limitations could have a detrimental effect on the blended display.


Assume you had a blended pair, with the left projector displaying a 100IRE box in the middle 50% of its raster, surrounded by a 0IRE field. The right projector is displaying a full 0IRE field. In air-coupled projectors, and to an attenuated extent in LC projectors, the washout effect as addressed by ANSI contrast figures would cause the 0IRE portion of the left projected image to be displayed with greater luminance on screen than the projector on the right. What I was curious about is whether this theoretical effect has any practical repercussions, and I'm glad to hear that it doesn't.


I agree completely that the advantages of blending, done right, far outweigh this minor concern. It seems that the crew that got together at Cliff's house represent a good part of the tallest peaks of CRT front projection, and discerning eyes certainly weren't lacking at Cliff's house. The ANSI contrast/washout issue was my last hesitation in committing to the blending approach, and I can't fairly assess the magnitude of the issue with the air-coupled projectors I am currently using. So I'm personally glad to hear that there were no problems with washout.


But, there's another point suggested by the fact that washout wasn't an issue with the blend. If there weren't any washout issues in that scene from "The Incredibles," I don't really see why washout or ANSI contrast should be a big problem for (liquid coupled) CRT front projection in general. Proponents of digital technologies seem to be quite concerned with ANSI contrast as an important component of image quality, and some point out the deficiency of CRTs in this regard. However, if you accept that ANSI contrast/washout could have an effect on a blended CRT set-up, and accept that in practice it does not, I think that perhaps the effect of ANSI contrast on overall image quality might be somewhat overstated. I'm not saying that it doesn't have an effect, but if it wasn't a major issue in a torture test I don't see how it could be a major issue in general.


I could be wrong in these assumptions and speculations; if someone could explain why I would greatly appreciate it.


Andres, do send me a PM.


Darin, thanks for the enlightening read. Do you have any speculations as to what sort of ANSI contrast ratios a display device would need to approach transparency?


EDIT: Congratulations, Cliff, and thanks for the thread.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Firmware succesfully flashed. Settings retained.



Did you make a new cable with the funky pinouts?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Did you make a new cable with the funky pinouts?



Sure did big dog. All is good. Now for the hard part........










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> EDIT: Congratulations, Cliff, and thanks for the thread.



Your welcome and I will reply to your comments when I get some more time, but it's off to the kids christmas show at school and back home to tweak the twins.










Time is running out.......


Cliff


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *slartibartfasst* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> However, if you accept that ANSI contrast/washout could have an effect on a blended CRT set-up, and accept that in practice it does not, I think that perhaps the effect of ANSI contrast on overall image quality might be somewhat overstated. I'm not saying that it doesn't have an effect, but if it wasn't a major issue in a torture test I don't see how it could be a major issue in general.
> 
> 
> I could be wrong in these assumptions and speculations



I agree especially since IMO we accept the equivalent of ANSI degredation in real life when there are headlights in ones face, for example, and everything around is lost but on a clear night overlooking a city you don't expect a fog when you look around at small brightly lit objects in the distance.


Art


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Tweaking my blend, and the TWINS>....... wait that sounds like a beer comerical.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Tweaking my blend, and the TWINS>....... wait that sounds like a beer comerical.



Don


My instinct is, that had you attended Saturday, it would have Felt like a beer commercial!!!!!!!


----------



## Don_Kellogg

I'm not easily impressed, but yes it was a wondered setup even in the state it was in when I left that sad day. I misss the twins..


----------



## overclkr

So I called Clarence tonight to ask him to drive back to take more shots because I was able to improve the blendzone.


He kindly (well not really kindly) basically told me to stick it where the SUN DONT SHINE as I have a bar tab with him right now from my last visit to him, so I gave it a go myself.........


----------



## overclkr




----------



## overclkr




----------



## Gino AUS

Cliff - Can I ask how you improved it further and what you improved?


Also, in the first screenshot, it appears to be an all black background, and I dont see a hint of a blendzone. Did the camera take this properly, I remember you saying in a FTB the blend was visible, or is this different?


----------



## overclkr

























































GOTTA LOVE THE LIGHT OUTPUT FROM 2 G90'S!!!!!


Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

Oh and... blended Jessica Alba... mmmmm!


Can you take a screenshot of an white field?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff - Can I ask how you improved it further and what you improved?
> 
> 
> Also, in the first screenshot, it appears to be an all black background, and I dont see a hint of a blendzone. Did the camera take this properly, I remember you saying in a FTB the blend was visible, or is this different?



HEY!!!! You were supposed to wait until I was done!!!!

















The Blendzone is now ALL GONE in full blackout.










I just slowly kept adjusting click by click and sending to the projectors until I got it perfect. There is only SLIGHT blendzone visibility now on 100IRE.










Cliffy


----------



## Gino AUS

What did you adjust click by click? The SE curve? Can you give an 100IRE pic?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> What did you adjust click by click? The SE curve? Can you give an 100IRE pic?



Yes big dog. But both Bezier and Polyline need adjustments to get it just right. I still need to play a bit more and it's getting late.


Here is 100IRE from Toshiba HD DVD. The left projector is still giving me a fit on color uniformity. I think it has to do with the Green tube being replaced and the phosphor still needing to be cured a bit as it has less than 100 hours on it. Either that or the blue has wear that is uneven. Not sure yet. I'll have to visit it with Ken.


Either way, as you can see on the bottom of the pic where color uniformity is much better in the center (plus the camera isn't helping), on the left and right is the edge of the blend zone.











Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS

Thanks mate. I didnt know that you could use bezier and polyline curves simultaneously, I thought it was one or the other? That looks great, especially if that's the worst case scenario for a blend. 99.9999% of the time I bet you dont see it now! Congrats on the setup. Now if only I can do the same.


Care to show me a pic of your SE curves when you have a chance? What % overlap do you have?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Thanks mate. I didnt know that you could use bezier and polyline curves simultaneously, I thought it was one or the other? That looks great, especially if that's the worst case scenario for a blend. 99.9999% of the time I bet you dont see it now! Congrats on the setup. Now if only I can do the same.
> 
> 
> Care to show me a pic of your SE curves when you have a chance? What % overlap do you have?



BE VERY CAREFULL WITH POLYLINE GINO!!!!!! It is VERY EASY to really screw up the blendzone with those adjustments. I've noticed with polyline, it does the EXACT opposite as bezier (dim in the middle to bright at the edges of the blend zone) and I really ended up in a position the night before the meet to where I had to almost CANCEL the meet because of it.


Anywho, I've come to the conclusion after tonight spending time with the DVX that it is in fact DEFECTIVE. I have saved my setup SEVERAL different times to the hard drive and no matter which setup I load, the software is giving me default values with the adjusted values being displayed on the screen.


I was able to get 1200P MUCH closer tonight than I ever have but as a result of the bugs I am having with this early production unit, I have basically given up. No point in spending dedicated time with a unit that is defective.


Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> did you ever try this pic?
> 
> preview:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> link to full resolution version (lossless compression):
> http://rapidshare.com/files/7418179/...Mtestpic01.png
> 
> 
> Kai



Kai,


I'll try to knock this out before I send back the unit next week.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I'm not easily impressed, but yes it was a wondered setup even in the state it was in when I left that sad day. I misss the twins..



Dude, you were seriously missed that day.........










Cliffy


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Just wanted to point out that although this number has gotten passed around, it is a completely bogus claim. I don't know if came from a 1/100 difference threshold in the CSF test, a limit of 100 levels, or from something else. But, in less than 5 minutes I can show how incorrect this is in a good room. As I mentioned, I'm not exactly sure where this got started, but tried to cover some of it with some tests you can run in my article on CR here:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-4.html
> 
> 
> --Darin



Where have you been Darin?










Wish you would have found the time to stop by for a visit.


Cliff


----------



## darinp2




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Where have you been Darin?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wish you would have found the time to stop by for a visit.



It would have been great to see it, but didn't end up being the best time to go. Sounds pretty awesome and I know you put guys put a lot of effort into getting things ready, so glad to hear it worked out so well.


--Darin


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *darinp2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It would have been great to see it, but didn't end up being the best time to go. Sounds pretty awesome and I know you put guys put a lot of effort into getting things ready, so glad to hear it worked out so well.
> 
> 
> --Darin



Thanks man. Maybe another day huh?










Cliff


----------



## Gino AUS




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> BE VERY CAREFULL WITH POLYLINE GINO!!!!!! It is VERY EASY to really screw up the blendzone with those adjustments. I've noticed with polyline, it does the EXACT opposite as bezier (dim in the middle to bright at the edges of the blend zone) and I really ended up in a position the night before the meet to where I had to almost CANCEL the meet because of it.



Cliff, would still be interested to see how your bezier and polylines looked. Thanks!


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Gino AUS* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff, would still be interested to see how your bezier and polylines looked. Thanks!



That's the problem Gino. When I tried 1200P, switched back to 1024P, and loaded my saved file, my settings were on the screen, but the numbers in the software were at default.


Cliff


----------



## overclkr

Hello All,


I just wanted to add some VERY important info to my thread in regards to the Zilla.....


This morning, I have to return the box because it was given to me on loan strictly for the meet.


I'm a pretty damn smart dude and have been in this hobby for quite a long time even before I became a member of AVS and with everything going on at the time of the meet, I just did not get to spend the quality time with the box that I wish I could have before the meet which put me into a situation to where I was rushed to get the setup just right video wise in a short window before the meet.


I ran into some serious issues with deinterlacing and stair stepping with clips from various HD DVD's that I own with my Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player sending 1080i to the box that were unacceptable and for the life of me, I could not figure out why I had these problems and ran out of time to try to figure out why by the meet.


Well, of course knowing that the box is being returned tomorrow, I decided to spend some time tonight with my G90's and Tim's box to just for once to finally WATCH SOMETHING and relax.










Low and behold, with my XBOX hooked up to Tim's box on input 1 via component 1080P, my .TS files were playing back flawlesssly and the "normal" issues a videophile would see at 60hz were evident, but nothing nearly even resembling what I was experiencing with the Toshiba on input 2 (stair stepping and horrible de interlacing) was evident at all what so ever.


I then proceeded to hook up the Toshiba to input one after spending a couple of hours with my 360 to see if I could re create the problems I was having and walla, they were gone. Everything was chiming together just like it should and I'm PISSED.


So, yes, the Zilla has a bad input module that I unfortunately wasn't smart enough to resolve before the meet hence why I feel the need to post to everyone in the forum my results after finally having some quality alone time with the box tonight to play.


The particular input I used is defective and felt the need to post this information so that everyone knows what's up. This Zilla unit that was sent to me for the meet is an "EARLY PRODUCTION" unit (number 5 to be exact) which leads me to believe that many of the problems I've had are related to this.


Just thought everyone should know...........


Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Wow now that sucks major Donkey Balls...


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wow now that sucks major Donkey Balls...



Yeah, but at least I know for sure now that the newer production units like Tim's, Gino's, and Andres' are not affected by this. I just wish that it would have been figured out by the meet.


Note to self:


NEVER try to move into a new house, build a make shift theater, and have a meet within two weeks of moving in.........


Cliff


P.S. Don, board going out today. Thanks again man.


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Cliff I was just happy that I was able to assist you in your time of need.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Note to self:
> 
> 
> NEVER try to move into a new house, build a make shift theater, and have a meet within two weeks of moving in.........
> 
> 
> Cliff




Uh, Three Weeks???????


----------



## Briands




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> I just wanted to add some VERY important info to my thread in regards to the Zilla.....
> 
> 
> This morning, I have to return the box because it was given to me on loan strictly for the meet.
> 
> 
> I'm a pretty damn smart dude and have been in this hobby for quite a long time even before I became a member of AVS and with everything going on at the time of the meet, I just did not get to spend the quality time with the box that I wish I could have before the meet which put me into a situation to where I was rushed to get the setup just right video wise in a short window before the meet.
> 
> 
> I ran into some serious issues with deinterlacing and stair stepping with clips from various HD DVD's that I own with my Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player sending 1080i to the box that were unacceptable and for the life of me, I could not figure out why I had these problems and ran out of time to try to figure out why by the meet.
> 
> 
> Well, of course knowing that the box is being returned tomorrow, I decided to spend some time tonight with my G90's and Tim's box to just for once to finally WATCH SOMETHING and relax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Low and behold, with my XBOX hooked up to Tim's box on input 1 via component 1080P, my .TS files were playing back flawlesssly and the "normal" issues a videophile would see at 60hz were evident, but nothing nearly even resembling what I was experiencing with the Toshiba on input 2 (stair stepping and horrible de interlacing) was evident at all what so ever.
> 
> 
> I then proceeded to hook up the Toshiba to input one after spending a couple of hours with my 360 to see if I could re create the problems I was having and walla, they were gone. Everything was chiming together just like it should and I'm PISSED.
> 
> 
> So, yes, the Zilla has a bad input module that I unfortunately wasn't smart enough to resolve before the meet hence why I feel the need to post to everyone in the forum my results after finally having some quality alone time with the box tonight to play.
> 
> 
> The particular input I used is defective and felt the need to post this information so that everyone knows what's up. This Zilla unit that was sent to me for the meet is an "EARLY PRODUCTION" unit (number 5 to be exact) which leads me to believe that many of the problems I've had are related to this.
> 
> 
> Just thought everyone should know...........
> 
> 
> Cliff



Sounds like you should ask for an extension on the loaner... or maybe they'll cut you a great deal on this "defective" unit


----------



## Tim in Phoenix




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Briands* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Sounds like you should ask for an extension on the loaner... or maybe they'll cut you a great deal on this "defective" unit




Cliffy deserves A-1 perfect quality and nothing less......


----------



## deus-ex




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kschmit2* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Cliff,
> 
> did you ever try this pic?
> 
> ..........
> 
> link to full resolution version (lossless compression):
> http://rapidshare.com/files/7418179...UMtestpic01.png
> 
> 
> Kai





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Kai,
> 
> 
> I'll try to knock this out before I send back the unit next week.
> 
> 
> Cliff



Can't reach it ... How can I download this picture ?


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *deus-ex* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> How can I download this picture ?



I rehosted it here:
http://crtforum.com/img/AVSFORUMtestpic01.png (3.6 Mb)

Right-click, "Save Target As..."


----------



## kschmit2

thanks Clarence


Kai


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Just recieved the my G90 board via UPS thanks for getting it back so fast







... I so want to hang my PJ but.... I know what will happen if I do.


----------



## mobius




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I tried every permutation of those a month ago when MS added 1080P to the X360, to no avail:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post8899803
> 
> 
> I re-tried them tonight, just in case anything had changed, but I still can't get the full left side of the 1080P image without the right side wrapping under.




Clarence, have you tried 720p with the X360? I understand that's a bit like putting pedals on a Ferrari F430, but just curious.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


For those interested, in the Virginia-DC region, we may have a BlendZilla meet coming near you in the late April time frame; more details as the plans congeal......Mike Parker is part of the plan.......


----------



## MadMrH

Cliff - Are you 100% sure the input is faulty ???


Could it be any settings within the unit ???


I know its not yours but it would be good to hear once the unit is back if the inputs are modular and this was indeed a faulty input.


If that unit is used for loan to others then it needs to be noted so others dont have the same issues.


Maybe Tim and others with Zilla could also test input2 with HD DVD vs input 1 - There is always a chance its a firmware issue, and better to know about these things, its very difficult to test everything on low production run units.......


----------



## overclkr

Good question Mad. After extensive conversation with Tim we both concluded that the unit has issues. He did not have the problems I did with his unit and as well, Gino is problem free.


I also updated the box with the latest firmware available before the meet.










Cliff


----------



## MadMrH

My days are spent fault finding AV systems, Glad you managed to narrow it down to an input, that will at least help others.......


Guessing inputs are modular so should be an easy replace.


----------



## MadMrH

I have now read this thread from start to here in one go.........


Cliff - could you please confirm the final settings you used and physical lens to screen distance etc.


(Gino as well if you can)


Please include resolutions fed to Zilla, output res, overlap size % or pixel, etc. Anything of use to others in fact........


Sorry if this is covered in the thread but I cant find it all !!!


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Andy


Recommended overlap for 1.78 is 20% and the DVX pixel setting would be around 392; the pixel overlap available range is 0 (edge butt) to about 500. Other controls include Extend on/off and Softedge on/off, one wants it off when converging the overlap.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


As Cliffy stated on his last trial, "Low and behold, with my XBOX hooked up to Tim's box on input 1 via component 1080P, my .TS files were playing back flawlesssly and the "normal" issues a videophile would see at 60hz were evident, but nothing nearly even resembling what I was experiencing with the Toshiba on input 2 (stair stepping and horrible de interlacing) was evident at all what so ever."


The machine was bench tested back at Analog New York and they found no problems, so chalk this one up to Sun Spots or something.....


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!



Colts over Dolphins, close game to the end; my BlendZilla in Phoenix:


----------



## nithr

sorry for noob questions but how does one get hd versions of movies that haven't been released on hd-dvd or blu-ray yet and who would one call to get a setup like these?


----------



## Sky042




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> We are having SO much fun with this!
> 
> 
> Ken, Arli, and Don left hours ago to get some sleep like sensible people, but Cliff and I kept playing and did a rough setup so we could watch some blended 12' wide HD:



Wait did the incredibles come out on HD-DVD or was that just an up-conversion??

Looks amazing.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sky042* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait did the incredibles come out on HD-DVD or was that just an up-conversion??
> 
> Looks amazing.



It was on HD cable last year (great 1080i transfer)...
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&post6780525


----------



## nithr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Sky042* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Wait did the incredibles come out on HD-DVD or was that just an up-conversion??
> 
> Looks amazing.



disney doesnt even support hd-dvd so...


----------



## Sharpel007

although the PotC 2 dvd has nice trailer with big list of whats coming on Blu Ray


----------



## Clarence

I came across this picture from the demo, so I thought I'd add it.


Here's Arli, Ryan (with his Pearl), and Cliff (with his blended G90's on the ceiling)...


----------



## overclkr

AWESOME CLARENCE THANKS!!!!!! :^)


Cliff


----------



## Don_Kellogg

Ahhh wook at the wittle Pearl, it's so cute. Digitals have come along way and yet so far to go. No thats contrast I mean contrast of size.


----------



## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!



What is the harm.........of a few new screen shots, eh? Eagles Saints in progress.......






























and for Curt and Cliffy.........


----------



## Art Sonneborn

Here is one:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Here is one:



CLASSIC BIG DOG!!!!!


AWESOME!


I'm just in awe at what was accomplished in such a short amount of time. I'm sure you were too.










Cliffy


----------



## Clarence

Ken's either mesmerized or terrified of that light bulb... like a moth to the flame...
_Hmmm, the color temperature of that bulb seems off... too much red and green... I wonder how I can bump the blue?_


----------



## Art Sonneborn




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> CLASSIC BIG DOG!!!!!
> 
> 
> AWESOME!
> 
> 
> I'm just in awe at what was accomplished in such a short amount of time. I'm sure you were too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cliffy



Yes, I was young man ! It was great seeing it but also great hearing you guys discussing what went into it. I'm looking foward to coming over when the room is complete and we can party ! I need to get a room over there this time though. Unlike you, I can't get tanked and drive three hundred miles at O dark thirty.










Speaking of party did you and that other ISF guy Gannon have a talk outside ? I've never heard you say that there was too much bass before.

















Art


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Art Sonneborn* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Yes, I was young man ! It was great seeing it but also great hearing you guys discussing what went into it. I'm looking foward to coming over when the room is complete and we can party ! I need to get a room over there this time though. Unlike you, I can't get tanked and drive three hundred miles at O dark thirty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of party did you and that other ISF guy Gannon have a talk outside ? I've never heard you say that there was too much bass before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Art



I'm so looking foward to that day! I actually couldn't help but put one of the G90's back on the ceiling until we get back to work and am wondering if I'm going to have to retube because of all of the time I've spent watching it in the last month.










As far as that other ISF guy, well, um, yeah, um, we had a conversation.

















Cliffy


----------



## Art Sonneborn

"OK Cliff, if you go out and look in my trunk I think I have a few more things we can hook up to this thing"


----------



## Clarence

We all look damned tired, don't we?


----------



## overclkr

I was so spent...........


But boy was it fun!!!!!! :^)


Cliffy


----------



## Don_Kellogg

are those Surgery booties that Ken has on??? Man I should have brought scrubs with me, oh wait I was at the hospital and couldn't make it










Next time when the theaters ready Cliff I'm taking the day off in advance. I'll be shutting off all my phones.


----------



## dochlywd

That is EXACTLY how Ken looked when he left my house at 1:30am after applying his finishing touches. Anyone else would have packed it in well before that. I can't say enough about his dedication to his trade.


****! I AM STILL PISSED I COULDN'T MAKE THIS G2G!!!!!


Doc


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *dochlywd* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> That is EXACTLY how Ken looked when he left my house at 1:30am after applying his finishing touches. Anyone else would have packed it in well before that. I can't say enough about his dedication to his trade.
> 
> 
> ****! I AM STILL PISSED I COULDN'T MAKE THIS G2G!!!!!
> 
> 
> Doc



We all wish you could have made it too Doc.










I was just reading through the thread again and thinking about all of the events that lead to the meet. What a wonderful time it was even though I was extremely sleep deprived.


Even though those screenshots look so damn good, you just had to be there. Simply amazing.

















Cliff


----------



## Alan Gouger

I have never had the pleasure of seeing a 90 in person but heard they were good size but in that picture they do not look that bad.


----------



## Axatax




> Quote:
> I have never had the pleasure of seeing a 90 in person but heard they were good size but in that picture they do not look that bad.



That picture is very deceptive.


There is a picture floating around of a G90 with three children sitting on top of the hood. Can't find it anymore.


----------



## kschmit2

a Sony G90:











and a Barco 808s:


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I have never had the pleasure of seeing a 90 in person but heard they were good size but in that picture they do not look that bad.



Hehe, it's not bad once they are on the ceiling.










It's building AROUND them that is the pain!










250lbs EACH.


Cliff


----------



## Alan Gouger

It must be the angle of the shot. That Barco looks bigger then the Sony. I had a few NEC 10PGs

( loved them but I know it was not in the same league as the Sony or Barco) and the Sony does not look much bigger if any.


----------



## Clarence

Here's my G90 in the back of an 8-passenger SUV:











Much longer and wider than the Marquee that I sized my recessed ceiling mount for.


The Barco is even longer, but shallower.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Alan Gouger* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> It must be the angle of the shot. That Barco looks bigger then the Sony. I had a few NEC 10PGs
> 
> ( loved them but I know it was not in the same league as the Sony or Barco) and the Sony does not look much bigger if any.




Actually Alan, I think the 10PG is longer than the G90 but as wide. The 10PG is a MONSTER and probably one of the most under rated CRT projectors EVER. What a hell of a pic that PJ still to this day throws.


Cliff


----------



## Alan Gouger

My 10PG was fired onto an 8 foot wide 185:1 Stewart silver screen. Back then all we had was dvd but to my eye it looked like film. At one point I coupled it to a Teranex. I was able to dial out any EE with the Tera and man did it look good. I miss that setup.


----------



## draganm




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *nithr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> sorry for noob questions but how does one get hd versions of movies that haven't been released on hd-dvd or blu-ray yet and *who would one call to get a setup like these?*



Hello nithr and welcome to the CRT forum. There's only 1 place I know where you can purchase the Diventix processor. e-tech in Phoenix AZ. http://www.etechvideo.com/home.htm 

I think these guys were watching a lot of standard DVD that was up-scaled by the Diventix to 1920 x 1080 (1080P) or there-abouts. So far this has only been done with the sony G90 and electrohome Marquee chassis, I would stick to one of those 2 platforms unless your really adventerous. Also, if your new to CRT a pro-install is highly recomended.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draganm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I think these guys were watching a lot of standard DVD that was up-scaled by the Diventix to 1920 x 1080 (1080P)



I can't recall watching a single frame of standard def that week.


The content that wasn't HD-DVD or Blu-ray was from a HD cable DVR (Motorola 6412). Some HD clips were extracted as .ts files using firewire and played back using the XBox 360.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't recall watching a single frame of standard def that week.
> 
> 
> The content that wasn't HD-DVD or Blu-ray was from a HD cable DVR (Motorola 6412). Some HD clips were extracted as .ts files using firewire and played back using the XBox 360.



Standard def??? GROSS!!!!!!

















We did watch a small touch from Gary Murrel's Yammy but I think maybe less than 2 minutes worth.......


Cliffy


----------



## draganm

you guys are spoiled. I don't recall reading any prefrences between BR and HD-DVD, was there a clear winner?


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *draganm* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> you guys are spoiled. I don't recall reading any prefrences between BR and HD-DVD, was there a clear winner?



There is NO winner in a format war like this consumer wise. So far, I prefer HD DVD but BD is clearly gaining steam and BD50 titles have much improved picture quality over BD 25.


Cliff


----------



## Clarence

I think the format war might have some benefits to the consumer... I think the war was reponsible for Microsoft producing the XBox 360 HD-DVD add on to counter BD on the Sony PS3.


But I agree... no overall PQ winner... it varies from title to title. Some HDDVD titles look better than some BD titles, and vice versa. So it really boils down to title availability.


HD-DVD players are still more affordable. And I like the advantage of being able to burn HD files to DVD-R in the HD-DVD format.


----------



## Noobnewb

I read an article in PC world which said the adult video industry is putting their money into Blu-ray which some "experts" believe is enough to turn the tide and make BR the eventual winner. The article also claimed it was the adult industry's decision to go with VHS that put Beta out of the consumer market.


----------



## overclkr

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, it's exactly the opposite as what you say from what I understand.


Cliff


----------



## Noobnewb




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *overclkr* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Actually, if I'm not mistaken, it's exactly the opposite as what you say from what I understand.
> 
> 
> Cliff



I just read the article this morning. I hope I'm not that senile yet.


----------



## Joshua Snyder

actually you are both right, it just depends on when the article was written, and what portion of the adult industry.


Over a year from the consumer launch of BR or HD-DVD, the big players in the adult production industry picked BR, due to higher capacity, and better potential for interactivity, and I think a sense of history regarding the PS-2 driving DVD adoption.


However, the big news on the subject is that largely because of pressure from sony to prevent adult titles being duplicated at Blue-Ray production facilities, a large high end production house recently switched from BR to HD-DVD.


----------



## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Noobnewb* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I just read the article this morning. I hope I'm not that senile yet.



I've been senile for years.......


----------



## newbieDAN




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Joshua Snyder* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> actually you are both right, it just depends on when the article was written, and what portion of the adult industry.
> 
> 
> Over a year from the consumer launch of BR or HD-DVD, the big players in the adult production industry picked BR, due to higher capacity, and better potential for interactivity, and I think a sense of history regarding the PS-2 driving DVD adoption.
> 
> 
> However, the big news on the subject is that largely because of pressure from sony to prevent adult titles being duplicated at Blue-Ray production facilities, a large high end production house recently switched from BR to HD-DVD.



Interesting article here.....apparently both formats are dead....
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36942


----------



## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Clarence* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> I can't recall watching a single frame of standard def that week.
> 
> 
> The content that wasn't HD-DVD or Blu-ray was from a HD cable DVR (Motorola 6412). Some HD clips were extracted as .ts files using firewire and played back using the XBox 360.



Does anyone know if it is really legal to record HD clips from a Motorola 6412? I'm thinking of doing this myself but I don't want to worry about getting into trouble.


----------



## Clarence




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *RVonse* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know if it is really legal to record HD clips from a Motorola 6412? I'm thinking of doing this myself but I don't want to worry about getting into trouble.



AKAIK, as long as it's for personal use... time shifting shows so you can watch them later, and they're not sold or distributed.


I don't think any individual has ever "gotten into trouble" for using the firewire port on their cable box... it's there and being used in it's intended purpose. No hardware hacks are even required.


It's the same as using a JVC 30K DVHS recorder... it uses the exact same firewire connection.


.ts clips from freely broadcast OTA HD might be a good demo source, too, if you'd feel more comfortable with that... Microsoft, ATI, and HP offer OTA HD recording.


But if you're uncomfortable, then by all means, err on the side of caution.


You might find more useful info in the AVS "HDTV Recorders" forum .


----------



## RVonse

Thanks Clarence. I knew that recording and archiving OTA was cool but just did not know for sure it was ok for subscribed cable.


I do my best to stay clear of trouble but somehow seem to manage to get into it anyway.


----------



## jtnfoley

Its' actually illegal for your cable provider to _not provide_ and active firewire port or other means of allowing you independent fair use recording technologies. (FCC regs, 2004. I'll have to look up the specifics, buit I found the references on the HDTV recording forum here.)


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## RVonse




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *jtnfoley* /forum/post/0
> 
> 
> Its' actually illegal for your cable provider to _not provide_ and active firewire port or other means of allowing you independent fair use recording technologies. (FCC regs, 2004. I'll have to look up the specifics, buit I found the references on the HDTV recording forum here.)



If thats the case then Dish network must be breaking the law because AFAIK there is no way to get firewire out of any of their boxes. And it is for exactly that reason that I pretty sure I am going to dump them and go to Charter cable. The subscription price is pretty close anyway.


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## dc_pilgrim

Dish network is not a cable company, not subject to the firewire req. Unfortunate, but true.


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## Tim in Phoenix

Guys!


I would be very appreciative if those who attended and have some people pix would post those here or on my BlendZilla SoCal thread, cause I need volunteera for LA!!!!!!!


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## overclkr

bump to correct the hosting pics that have been moved. Gonna take a while so please be patient!!!!!


Cliff


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## overclkr

Bump. Still got to fix pictures. Been too damn busy finishing the theater.


Cliff


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## overclkr

Bump!


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## overclkr

One last bump so she doesn't get archived with pics that dont work on Sunday.


What a pain in the ass it is to move your pics from one URL to another.....


I promise, one day, I'll get it done!


Cliffy


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## overclkr

Still need to fix those pix!!!!!!!!


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## overclkr

Bump to fix the pix!


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## Don_Kellogg

Bump...


Where's the Pics man?


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## sandbagger

talk about a blast from the past....


but at least I didnt sell out and get a bulb thinggyyyy


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## overclkr

PICS FINALLY FIXED!!!!!!


FINALLY!










Cliffy


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## Don_Kellogg

Hmm this must be a usage of the word fixed that I'm not familiar with??


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## overclkr




> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Don_Kellogg* /forum/post/15243194
> 
> 
> Hmm this must be a usage of the word fixed that I'm not familiar with??



How about repaired? reposted? edited?


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