# HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1



## ARROW-AV

*HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1*​

HDMI version 2.0b, which is the pre-existing industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support. 

HDMI version 2.1 is the new industry standard, and this requires 48 Gbps video bandwidth support.

The shorter length cables, as per with respect to the existing HDMI 2.0b cables, will benefit from official testing and certification (see HERE for details: *https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/faq.aspx*)

Consequently, when purchasing shorter length HDMI 2.0b cables you want to look out for the official certifcation stamp, namely THIS:










Due to the existance of the official testing and certification of the shorter length cables there is no need for me to carry out additional testing with respect to these cables, and so it is only regarding the cables that fall outside of this, namely the longer length cables, wherein testing is necessary. Because, for reasons unknown there is currently no such official testing and certification with respect to the longer length cables, which use ACTIVE as opposed to PASSIVE type cable technology. 

Because of the absence of reliability regarding longer length HDMI cables which properly pass the 18 Gbps necessary to support and work with HDMI 2.0b video, I previously carried out a comprehensive evaluation and analysis of which cables do and which do not in reality actually do so; which you can find HERE: *TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*

Now that HDMI 2.1 is here, and because as per previously the expectation is that similarly the official testing and certification will apply only to the shorter length cables, it is time to focus on which HDMI cables that both offer longer length cables and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwidth and HDMI 2.1, actually do so; and which do not. 

Given the horrendous performance track record of longer length 18 Gbps HDMI v2.0b cables it will be interesting to see how many of the new longer length HDMI v2.1 cables actually deliver on their marketing claims.

*As per previously, I will be compiling a list of cables that both offer longer length cables and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwidth and HDMI 2.1, which I will subequently carry out an evaluation and testing exercise so as to confirm which cables in reality actually do and which do not. Please feel free to post cables that fit this criteria and I will add these to the list.* 

This thread is for discussing all HDMI v2.1 cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1, not just the longer length cables. However, as far as which cables I will be including within my initial evaluation and testing exercise, for the reasons that I have already explained, this will be focusing on the longer length cables. If for whatever reason there is a subset of shorter length cables that fall outside of the official certification and testing, and as such also require testing then I will test these as well.

:wink:


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## ARROW-AV

*HDMI 2.1 OVERVIEW:*

*(From: **https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx**)*

HDMI 2.1 Specification was developed by the HDMI Forum’s Technical Working Group. For more information about the HDMI Forum and how to become a member click here

HDMI® Specification 2.1 is the most recent update of the HDMI specification and supports a range of higher video resolutions and refresh rates including 8K60 and 4K120, and resolutions up to 10K. Dynamic HDR formats are also supported, and bandwidth capability is increased up to 48Gbps.

Supporting the 48Gbps bandwidth is the new Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable. The cable ensures high-bandwidth dependent features are delivered including uncompressed 8K video with HDR. It features exceptionally low EMI (electro-magnetic interference) which reduces interference with nearby wireless devices. The cable is backwards compatible and can be used with the existing installed base of HDMI devices.

HDMI Specification 2.1 feature highlights include:

Higher video resolutions support a range of high resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail. Resolutions up to 10K are also supported for commercial AV, and industrial and specialty usages.
Dynamic HDR support ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast and wider color gamuts—on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
The Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable supports the 48G bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support. The cable also features very low EMI emission and is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.

eARC simplifies connectivity, provides greater ease of use, and supports the most advanced audio formats and highest audio quality. It ensures full compatibility between audio devices and upcoming HDMI 2.1 products.
Enhanced refresh rate features ensure an added level of smooth and seamless motion and transitions for gaming, movies and video. They include:
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) reduces or eliminates lag, stutter and frame tearing for more fluid and better detailed gameplay.
Quick Media Switching (QMS) for movies and video eliminates the delay that can result in blank screens before content is displayed.
Quick Frame Transport (QFT) reduces latency for smoother no-lag gaming, and real-time interactive virtual reality.
Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) allows the ideal latency setting to automatically be set allowing for smooth, lag-free and uninterrupted viewing and interactivity.

Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification is backward compatible with earlier versions of the Specification and is available to all HDMI 2.0 Adopters.
SUPPORTING GRAPHICS, PHOTOS, AND MULTI-LANGUAGE OVERVIEW PRESENTATIONS

Supporitng files are available here.

*General FAQS*

Q: Where can I download the HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: The HDMI 2.1 Specification can be downloaded from the HDMI Adopter Extranet.

Q: How do you license the HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: In order to license the HDMI 2.1 Specification, you must first become an HDMI Adopter and then sign an addendum to the HDMI Adopter Agreement which provides a license to the HDMI 2.1 Specification.

Q: Can non-HDMI Adopters license only the HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: Companies wishing to use the HDMI 2.1 specification must become an HDMI Adopter and also sign the HDMI 2 Adopter Addendum. They will have access to HDMI 1.4b and HDMI 2.1 Specifications.

Q: If I am a current HDMI 1.4b Adopter, do I have to license HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: No, Adopters have the option to only license 1.x. HDMI Adopters can sign the HDMI 2 Adopter Addendum to gain access to the HDMI 2.1 specification.

Q: Do HDMI 2.0 Adopters automatically get access to HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: Yes, it is licensed under the Version 2 addendum.

Q: Will current Adopters be required to pay an additional Annual Fee if they choose to adopt the HDMI 2.1 Specification?
A: No.

Q: Will there be any new royalty and/or increase in current royalties for products that implement HDMI 2.1 Specification features?
A: No, there is no additional royalty for implementing the HDMI 2.1 Specification.

Q: What is the relationship of HDMI Specification 2.1 to HDMI 2.0b and 1.4b Specifications?
A: The HDMI 2.1 Specification supersedes 2.0b and 2.1 continues to make reference to, and rely upon, HDMI 1.4b Specification.

Q: Is HDMI 2.1 Specification backwards compatible with previous versions of the specification?
A: Yes.
Testing and Certification FAQs

Q: What is the testing policy for HDMI 2.1 products?
A: All products must comply with Version 2.1 of the HDMI Specification and the HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS); and until the CTS is available and a product has passed compliance testing a product cannot claim to be 2.1 compliant or market that it supports 2.1 features.

Q: When will the HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification be available?
A: The HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) is being published in stages and the first release was in August 2018 including support for Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC). Additional features will be added in the coming months.

Q: When will ATCs start to provide 2.1 testing services?
A: Each individual ATC will decide on when to offer HDMI 2.1 testing services. Please contact your local ATC for more information.

Q: What are the HDMI 2.1 marketing feature names and their acronyms if any?
A:

Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable
Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM)
Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC)
Quick Frame Transport (QFT)
Quick Media Switching (QMS)
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)

The uncompressed/compressed feature name designations include: A= uncompressed, B=compressed, AB=Both

4K100A
4K100AB
4K100B
4K120A
4K120AB
4K120B
8K50A
8K50AB
8K50B
8K60A
8K60AB
8K60B

Please note that in order to use the feature names adopters must follow the HDMI 2.1 specification requirements for those features.

Q: Can I use “HDMI 2.1” in my marketing
A: You can only use version numbers when clearly associating the version number with a feature or function as defined in that version of the HDMI Specification. You cannot use version numbers by themselves to define your product or component capabilities or the functionality of the HDMI interface. And please note that NO use of version numbers is allowed in the labeling, packaging, or promotion of any cable product. Please check the Adopted Trademark and Logo Usage Guideline for a complete explanation of the policy, available on the Adopter extranet and here.
Feature FAQS

High Video Resolutions

Q: Will [email protected] or [email protected] require a new cable?
A: Yes, in order to ensure performance and compatibility the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable is required.

Q: What are the supported resolutions and frame rates?
A:

4K50/60
4K100/120
5K50/60
5K100/120
8K50/60
8K100/120
10K50/60
10K100/120

Q: Is compression used to achieve those resolutions and frame rates?
A: The specification supports both uncompressed and compressed modes. Manufacturers can implement either or both modes. The designations are:

4K100A – supports uncompressed mode
4K100B – supports compressed mode
4K100AB – supports both
4K120A – supports uncompressed mode
4K120B – supports compressed mode
4K120AB – supports both
8K50A – supports uncompressed mode
8K50B – supports compressed mode
8K50AB – supports both
8K60A – supports uncompressed mode
8K60B – supports compressed mode
8K60AB – supports both

Q: How do I identify which modes are supported in my products?
A: Manufacturers may use the designations indicated above (e.g. 8K60A, 8K60B, 8K60AB) in their product marketing, advertising, user guides, packaging, website, and on-product.

Q: What type of compression is supported?
A: The specification incorporates VESA DSC 1.2a link compression, which is a visually lossless compression scheme. VESA DSC 1.2a also can be used to obtain higher resolutions than 8K60/4:2:0/10-bit color, such as 8K60 RGB, 8K120 and even 10K120. VESA DSC 1.2a also supports 4Kp50/60 with the benefit of enabling operation at much lower link rates.

Q: What colorimetry is supported?
A: HDMI 2.1 Specification supports the latest color spaces including BT.2020 with 10, 12, and 16 bits per color component.

Q: What is FRL and is it necessary for the higher resolutions and faster refresh rates?
A: FRL stands for Fixed Rate Link and it’s a signaling technology supported in the HDMI 2.1 Specification. FRL is necessary to achieve the higher uncompressed resolutions such as those above 4k60 as well as the ultra high speed bandwidths up to 48Gbps. It’s also required for compressed video transport which in turn enables operation at lower data rates for example 4k60 and ultra-high pixel rate video such as 10Kp120.

Q: Does FRL replace TMDS?
A: Yes, it replaces TMDS. Note that the HDMI 2.1 specification still requires support for TMDS for backwards compatibility and still seamlessly supports the billions of HDMI devices that utilize TMDS.

Q: Can FRL be implemented through a firmware upgrade?
A: Upgradeability needs to be designed into the silicon and that is up to the manufacturers, although implementing FRL is most likely going to require new hardware.

Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable

Q: What is an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable?
A: The Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable is the first cable defined by the HDMI Forum. Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables comply with stringent specifications designed to ensure support for high resolution video modes such as 4Kp50/60/100/120 and 8Kp50/60 as well as new features such as eARC and VRR. Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables exceed the requirements of the latest international EMI standards to significantly reduce the probability of interference with wireless services such as Wi-Fi.

Q: Is the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable a Category 3 cable?
A: Yes

Q: Is this cable required for delivering HDMI 2.1 Specification features?
A: The cable is the best way to ensure that high-bandwidth dependent features are delivered including the enhanced video and audio performance, and accounting for the new EMI characteristics

Q: What cable(s) do I need to make use of the eARC feature?
A: Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables are designed to support the new eARC feature in addition to the highest resolution video modes. The Standard HDMI Cable with Ethernet and the High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet will also support eARC.

Q: When will I be able to purchase an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable?
A: Schedules for the availability of Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables are determined by the manufacturers of the cables. Manufacturers will be able to ship these cables once the HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS) is available and a cable has passed compliance testing. The HDMI Forum is actively working on development of these tests and expects them to be available in 1H 2018.

Q: Will existing HDMI High Speed Cables deliver the HDMI 2.1 features also?
A: Existing HDMI High Speed Cables with Ethernet can only deliver some of the new features, and the new Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable is the best way to connect HDMI 2.1 enabled devices to ensure delivery of all the features.

Q: What connectors does the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable use?
A: It is compatible with HDMI connectors Types A, C and D.

Q: Does the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable have an Ethernet channel?
A: Yes, it supports the HDMI Ethernet Channel.

Q: Can the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable work with existing HDMI devices?
A: The cable is backwards compatible and can be used with all existing HDMI devices.

Q: What is the maximum length of this cable?
A: The specification does not indicate a cable length. Cable length depends on the cable manufacturer. It is likely the maximum lengths for passive cables will be approximately 2 to 3 meters.

Q: Are active cables supported in the specification?
A: The specification permits wire, passive, active, and converter Category 3 cable assemblies.

Q: Will these cables require a new cable name logo for their packaging?
A: Yes, they have an official Cable Name Logo design and colors, requirements for on-cable printing and cable name translations. Details are available in the Adopted Trademark and Logo Usage Guideline (ATLUG) on the HDMI.org website.

Dynamic HDR

Q: Does Dynamic HDR require the new Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable?
A: No, but it will be necessary to enable 4K120 and 8K60 video with HDR due to the high bandwidth required by these resolutions and refresh rates.

Q: Which HDR formats does the specification support?
A: It supports various static and dynamic HDR solutions.

Q: How does the specification support multiple HDR solutions?
A: Static and Dynamic HDR-enabled devices that implement the HDMI 2.1 Specification transmit both Static and Dynamic HDR metadata over the HDMI interface in a standardized way; and also go through the same mandatory HDMI compliance testing to ensure they can properly send/receive Static and Dynamic HDR metadata over the HDMI interface regardless of product manufacturer. This ensures consumers can get all the benefits of Dynamic HDR without possible compatibility issues.

Q: Is Dynamic HDR accessible via a firmware upgrade?
A: Manufacturers may or may not be able to enable Dynamic HDR with a firmware upgrade. Contact the manufacturer of your product to see if this is possible.

eARC

Q: Will this work with any HDMI cable?
A: This works with HDMI High Speed Cables with Ethernet and the new Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable.

Q: Is eARC available through a firmware upgrade?
A: Generally speaking, no. Check with the manufacturer of your product to confirm.

Q: What audio formats are supported?
A: The latest high-bitrate audio formats are supported including DTS Master, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and more.

Q: Will the existing ARC-enabled products work with new products that use eARC?
A: Maybe. Manufacturers can produce products that are compatible with both eARC and ARC. However, eARC is not defined to be backwards compatible with ARC.

Gaming and Media Features

Q: What features are added to the HDMI 2.1 Specification for video gaming and media playback?
A: HDMI 2.1 Specification has added the following new features:

Auto Low-Latency Mode (ALLM)
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)
Quick Frame Transport (QFT)
Quick Media Switching (QMS)

Q: What is Auto Low-Latency Mode (ALLM)?
A: This feature lets a game console, PC or other device send a signal to the display which will cause it to automatically switch to a low-latency, low-lag mode for gaming. This could benefit other uses, such as karaoke and video conferencing. When the source no longer requires this mode—for example, when switching to a movie stream—the source disables the signal and the display reverts back to its previous mode.

Q: What is Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)?
A: VRR lets a gaming source deliver video frames as fast as it can, which in many cases is slower than the normal static refresh rate. Graphics processors require different absolute periods to render each frame, and this time is dependent upon the complexity of the scene, the horsepower of the GPU, the resolution selected and the frame rate. When the GPU is taxed by the other three factors and does not finish rendering the next frame by the time it needs to be displayed, the source must either repeat the current frame or display the partially-rendered next frame, which causes judder and tearing. By waiting until the next frame is ready to transport it, a smoother gaming experience can be provided to the user.

Q: What is Quick Frame Transport (QFT)?
A: QFT transports each frame at a higher rate to decrease “display latency”, which is the amount of time between a frame being ready for transport in the GPU and that frame being completely displayed. This latency is the sum of the transport time through the source’s output circuits, the transport time across the interface, the processing of the video data in the display, and the painting of the screen with the new data. This overall latency affects the responsiveness of games: how long it appears between a button is pressed to the time at which the resultant action is observed on the screen.

While there are a lot of variables in this equation, not many are adjustable from an HDMI specification perspective. QFT operates on the transport portion of this equation by reducing the time it takes to send only the active video across the cable. This results in reduced display latency and increased responsiveness.

Q: What is Quick Media Switching?
A: QMS uses the VRR mechanism to eliminate the blackout period when all devices in the HDMI connection chain change video modes. As long as the resolution remains the same and only the frame rate changes, QMS will smoothly switch between media rates. For example, when looking at trailers from a streaming service, some are likely in 24Hz, some in 50Hz, and some in 60Hz. Every time a different frame rate trailer is selected, the entire system must change its clocking and re-sync, causing an A/V blackout (a “bonk”). Knowing that a change-of-video mode causes bonks, streaming services add a built-in delay so that users do not miss the first part of the trailer. Or optionally, they output everything at the same frame rate—which requires either the streaming service to provide single-frequency streams or the streaming box to perform the conversion.

QMS eliminates bonks by using the VRR mechanism to change frame rates, allowing rapid, smooth changes from a nominal 60Hz rate to any media rate below it (down to 24Hz).

Q: Can I use all of these features together?
A: QMS is all about presenting the best media playback experience. There are no reaction times involved, so latency is not an issue (ALLM and QFT should not be used). ALLM should not be enabled with QMS because ALLM disables the extensive video processing your TV does. The frame rates are static within a video stream, so VRR is not necessary. And as described previously, QMS and VRR use the same technology under the hood, so they cannot operate together. (QMS has a constant frame rate, VRR has a varying frame rate.)

On the other hand, adding ALLM to VRR and QFT is encouraged for the best gaming experience.

Your gaming box will take care of these choices for you. If you are streaming video or playing a BluRay, it would only enable QMS; if you fire up a game, it would enable ALLM, VRR, and QFT, depending on what your system supports.

Q: Will my devices support these new features?
A: Ask the manufacturers of your devices. More details are available in the HDMI 2.1 Gaming and Media Features white paper available to HDMI 2.1 Adopters on the Adopter Extranet.

:wink:


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## ARROW-AV

*LIST OF CABLES OFFERING LONGER LENGTHS CLAIMING TO SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1:*


*(1) RuiPro RuiPro8K*:

These are reportedly capable of passing 50 Gbps via what is essentially a quadruple-core composition in which 4 lots of 12.5 Gbps are passed, wherein 12.5 * 4 = 50 Gbps.

I will shortly be receiving and testing these cables and will report back my findings on here accordingly.




























I will update this thread with respect to other cables as and when these also become available. 

:wink:


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## ARROW-AV

Reserved #3


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## ARROW-AV

Reserved #4


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## ARROW-AV

Reserved #5


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## Postmoderndesign

Have you tested the Belkin Ultra High Speed HDMI cable?

Here is a post listing 6 HDMI 2.1 cables: http://www.rightisbest.com/best-48gbps-hdmi-2-1-cables-of-2108-2019.html


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## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> *LIST OF CABLES CLAIMING TO SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1:*
> 
> 
> *(1) RuiPro RuiPro8K*:
> 
> These are reportedly capable of passing 50 Gbps via what is essentially a quadruple-core composition in which 4 lots of 12.5 Gbps are passed, wherein 12.5 * 4 = 50 Gbps.
> 
> I will shortly be receiving and testing these cables and will report back my findings on here accordingly.
> 
> I will update this thread with respect to other cables as and when these also become available.
> 
> :wink:



Will you be using the same equipment and testing protocols that SimplayLabs uses? Simplay Labs is an ATC who has currently been testing the Ruipro cables but being as the cables are active, they can not receive the QR label which designates them as a "certified Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. I've tested the short length Ruipro cables in a consumer setting for HDMI 2.0b, without sophisticated equipment, and they worked just fine. Hopefully Ruipro has overcome the issues they originally had with eARC at 30m.


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## ARROW-AV

Postmoderndesign said:


> Have you tested the Belkin Ultra High Speed HDMI cable?
> 
> Here is a post listing 6 HDMI 2.1 cables: http://www.rightisbest.com/best-48gbps-hdmi-2-1-cables-of-2108-2019.html


None of those cables are longer length cables, as in 15m+ / 50 ft+

This is specifically regarding cables that both offer longer lengths and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwith and HDMI 2.1 

:wink:


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## RichB

ARROW-AV said:


> None of those cables are longer length cables, as in 15m+ / 50 ft+
> 
> This is specifically regarding cables that both offer longer lengths and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwith and HDMI 2.1
> 
> :wink:



If you don't intend to include


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## Otto Pylot

RichB said:


> If you don't intend to include


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## ARROW-AV

RichB said:


> If you don't intend to include


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## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> As I'm sure you know, the current HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications state that 3m (9') is the maximum length for passive cables. As I understand it, the idea is to start with the HDMI specification, establish that in fact there are cables that can actually meet that specification, and then work up to the longer lengths. The "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" that is mentioned in the specs will probably be a hybrid fiber cable. Whether HDMI.org will allow certification for an active cable longer than that is still to be determined.
> 
> Hopefully the smoke and mirrors around the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications and cables will start to dissipate somewhat with some independent testing by a reputable source. Distance is going to be the killer, so far. Lots of folks are going to get hung up on "HDMI 2.1" as being the end-all, not realizing the connection limitations.


Precisely 

It makes absolutely ZERO sense for me to repeat testing of cables that are offically certified and as such have already undergone comprehensive testing which confirms there efficacy.

My whole reason for carrying out my previous evaluation and testing exercise because there was no such certification and testing with respect to the longer length cables.

So I am intending on carrying out a similar evaluation and testing exercise with respect to the HDMI 2.1 48 GBPS cables, wherein I am assuming that the same pattern will apply, meaning there is only need to test the longer length cable which are not covered by official certification and testing.

I should add that I personally found it ridiculous that it was necessary for someone like me to carry out such testing as I previously did with respect to the longer length HDMI 2.0b cables and it is even more ridiculous that I am having to do it again with respect to the new HDMI 2.1 cables. Wherein, if by some miracle HDMI.org pull their finger out and both allow and organize official certification of the linger length cables, which of course by their very nature have to use active as opposed to passive technology, then I won't have to carry out this evaluation and testing exercise... but quite frankly I am not expecting this to happen! 



Otto Pylot said:


> Will you be using the same equipment and testing protocols that SimplayLabs uses? Simplay Labs is an ATC who has currently been testing the Ruipro cables but being as the cables are active, they can not receive the QR label which designates them as a "certified Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. I've tested the short length Ruipro cables in a consumer setting for HDMI 2.0b, without sophisticated equipment, and they worked just fine. Hopefully Ruipro has overcome the issues they originally had with eARC at 30m.


Ideally I would like to not only carry out the same testing that SimplyLabs uses but also go above and beyond that with respect to testing using real equipment and media in a proper home theater environment. 

I did not previously test for ARC functionality for a variety of reasons, primarily due to its limitations and lack of real world usage at the time; however, eARC is an entirely different kettle of fish and so this time I will most certainly be testing for it, wherein this will involve using Simplay Labs SL-870 eARC Protocol Analyzer Tool.

The additional testing will be tricky to carry out at the present time given the complete lack of consumer 8K media and supporting AV equipment; however, this will obviously change very soon, so as soon as I am able to do so I will be able to include this testing as well 

:wink:


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## RichB

ARROW-AV said:


> Not really
> 
> The reputable shorter length cables will have official certification that guarantees their efficacy, hence we already know that these should properly and reliably support 48 GBPS and HDMI v2.1. Consequently there is absolutely no need whatsoever to test these cables as testing has already been carried out as part of the certification process.
> 
> However, if the same pattern follows what transpired with the HDMI 2.0b cables then the longer length cables will not benefit from such official certification to guarantee their claimed performance. Consequently it is only these longer length cables that require testing.
> 
> I did already explain and cover this fact in the original thread, as well as within my previous evaluation and testing report, wherein I have posted a link to this in the OP
> 
> :wink:



*"Long HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1* " 


- Rich


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## harsh

I recall reading that the way the various wires were being used changed in a way that didn't demand cable upgrades to get the higher speeds. This would be similar to the situation in network cabling where it was originally assumed that CAT6 or greater would be required for gigabit networking speeds (CAT5e is now assumed to be good to >1Gbps).



Perhaps the testing should begin with budget high-speed cables and if they all satisfy the requirements, the assumption on which the test is based may be flawed or just plain wrong.


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## ARROW-AV

RichB said:


> *"Long HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1* "
> 
> 
> - Rich


No, *ALL* HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1 

This thread is for discussing all HDMI v2.1 cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1, not just the longer length cables.

However, as far as which cables I will be including within my evaluation and testing exercise, for the reasons that I have already explained, this will be focusing on the longer length cables. 

If for whatever reason there is a subset of shorter length cables that fall outside of the official certification and testing, and as such also require testing then I will test these as well, however, at the present time I don't see this happening 

:wink:


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## ARROW-AV

harsh said:


> I recall reading that the way the various wires were being used changed in a way that didn't demand cable upgrades to get the higher speeds. This would be similar to the situation in network cabling where it was originally assumed that CAT6 or greater would be required for gigabit networking speeds (CAT5e is now assumed to be good to >1Gbps).
> 
> Perhaps the testing should begin with budget high-speed cables and if they all satisfy the requirements, the assumption on which the test is based may be flawed or just plain wrong.


The shorter length cables, as per with respect to the existing HDMI 2.0b cables, will benefit from official testing and certification (see HERE for details: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/faq.aspx)

Consequently, when purchasing shorter length HDMI 2.0b cables you want to look out for the official certifcation stamp, namely THIS:










As such there is absolutely ZERO need to test these cables, and so only the cables that fall outside of this, namely the longer length cables.

There is nothing wrong with the official testing and it certainly is not _"plain wrong"_ 

The problem is that they have not previously, nor is there the intention to test and certify ALL types of cables, including the longer length cables which use ACTIVE as opposed to PASSIVE type cable technology.

I have no ideal why this is the case and personally find the situation to be utterly ridiculous given a great many people use and have no choice but to use the longer length cables. Go figure! 

So we have the ludicrous situation of the longer length cables not having any such performance quality control testing or certification to protect consumers, with bogus marketing performance claims being made by many manufacturers; wherein, it should be noted that in my previous evaluation and testing exercise every single make and model of cable except only TWO failed my tests! 

I would be nice if the longer length cables were to also be officially tested and certified, in which case I would be able to cancel my evaluation and testing exercise, but as of right now it is my understanding they they aren't, so here we are 

:wink:


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## Otto Pylot

ARROW-AV said:


> Precisely
> 
> It makes absolutely ZERO sense for me to repeat testing of cables that are offically certified and as such have already undergone comprehensive testing which confirms there efficacy.
> 
> My whole reason for carrying out my previous evaluation and testing exercise because there was no such certification and testing with respect to the longer length cables.
> 
> So I am intending on carrying out a similar evaluation and testing exercise with respect to the HDMI 2.1 48 GBPS cables, wherein I am assuming that the same pattern will apply, meaning there is only need to test the longer length cable which are not covered by official certification and testing.
> 
> I should add that I personally found it ridiculous that it was necessary for someone like me to carry out such testing as I previously did with respect to the longer length HDMI 2.0b cables and it is even more ridiculous that I am having to do it again with respect to the new HDMI 2.1 cables. Wherein, if by some miracle HDMI.org pull their finger out and both allow and organize official certification of the linger length cables, which of course by their very nature have to use active as opposed to passive technology, then I won't have to carry out this evaluation and testing exercise... but quite frankly I am not expecting this to happen!
> 
> 
> Ideally I would like to not only carry out the same testing that SimplyLabs uses but also go above and beyond that with respect to testing using real equipment and media in a proper home theater environment.
> 
> I did not previously test for ARC functionality for a variety of reasons, primarily due to its limitations and lack of real world usage at the time; however, eARC is an entirely different kettle of fish and so this time I will most certainly be testing for it, wherein this will involve using Simplay Labs SL-870 eARC Protocol Analyzer Tool.
> 
> The additional testing will be tricky to carry out at the present time given the complete lack of consumer 8K media and supporting AV equipment; however, this will obviously change very soon, so as soon as I am able to do so I will be able to include this testing as well
> 
> :wink:



Excellent. Will you also be using the SL-8800 Plus Protocol Analyzer and the SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL AVG?


I agree about the need to adequately test the longer cable lengths for HDMI 2.1 reliability (Ultra 48Gbps). Shorter lengths, 25' or less, have already been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0b so that's a done deal. That being said, I'm not aware of any certification/testing program for HDMI 2.1 at the 1m - 3m maximum length as outlined in the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. At what length will you start your evaluations from? I've always felt that the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" as mentioned in the HDMI 2.1 specifications would be a hybrid fiber cable (like Ruipro) so it would be interesting to see how well they will perform for the Ultra High Speed HDMI designation at around 10' and above. I do know from my informal testing of the shorter length Ruipro hybrid fiber cables that they have no issues at all with HDMI 2.0b (being an active cable is not a problem at short lengths) so hopefully that will transfer as well to HDMI 2.1.


I have three wishes on my cable wish list. One, is that HDMI.org would allow for certification of active cables. Two, cable mfrs would list which of the HDMI 2.1 hardware options their cables have been tested for and not just state "HDMI 2.1 compatible" or "tested for HDMI 2.1 specifications" and three, extend the certification length to 50' (passive or active). The consumer has been getting ripped off far too long with slick marketing and unsubstantiated claims. The Belkin cable released over a year ago is a prime example.


We've always said that price is not an indicator of cable quality/reliability and that in most cases, a $20 cable will perform as well as a $60 cable. That, I think, is going to change with the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications and hybrid fiber cables. Mostly due to the physical design of the cable, components, and the active chipsets involved. Unfortunately, hybrid fiber cables are expensive, but for the connection technology to finally catch up to the video technology that may be the price we have to pay  to meet those video standards and demands. As a side note, for those who are still in need and interested in a reliable cable for HDMI 2.0b at lengths longer than 25' the hybrid fiber cables are probably the best bet. I'm really looking forward to your evaluations.


----------



## jong1

Are you planning on testing eARC?

Hybrid cables will, presumably, use electrical wiring for the ARC return path. RuiPro had problems even with ARC in earlier versions of their cable, which I think they have resolved, but eARC will make things challenging all over again.

15M+ is not an inconsiderable distance at eARC data rates for what may be pretty unbalanced/shielded electrical wires.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. Will you also be using the SL-8800 Plus Protocol Analyzer and the SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL AVG?
> 
> 
> ...The consumer has been getting ripped off far too long with slick marketing and unsubstantiated claims. The Belkin cable released over a year ago is a prime example.


Otto-are you saying that the Belkin cable is an example of slick marketing and unsubstantiated claims and is not HDMI 2.1 capable or is not proven HDMI 2.1 capable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> Are you planning on testing eARC?
> 
> Hybrid cables will, presumably, use electrical wiring for the ARC return path. RuiPro had problems even with ARC in earlier versions of their cable, which I think they have resolved, but eARC will make things challenging all over again.
> 
> 15M+ is not an inconsiderable distance at eARC data rates for what may be pretty unbalanced/shielded electrical wires.


The hybrid fiber cables will use the solid copper wiring around the glass fiber core for ARC (and presumably eARC), HDCP, and EDID. Ruipro has solved the 5m/15m issue with eARC but the last time I talked to them they were still working on some issues with the 30m length.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> Otto-are you saying that the Belkin cable is an example of slick marketing and unsubstantiated claims and is not HDMI 2.1 capable or is not proven HDMI 2.1 capable?


Belkin originally announced their "HDMI 2.1 capable" cable before the final ratification of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications and before CTS requirements were finalized. That sent up red flags for me. They provided no independent testing data or how they even determined that one, the cables were tested using specific industry-approved equipment or two, they worked in consumer devices, which was interesting because there were no fully compliant HDMI 2.1 consumer devices at the time. The cables may in fact work, and hopefully ARROW-AV's testing will show that, but given how much smoke and mirrors there are around HDMI 2.1 and HDMI cables in general, just because a mfr says their cables work is not good enough for me.


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> The hybrid fiber cables will use the solid copper wiring around the glass fiber core for ARC (and presumably eARC), HDCP, and EDID. Ruipro has solved the 5m/15m issue with eARC but the last time I talked to them they were still working on some issues with the 30m length.


Don't get me wrong Ruipro seem to be the good guys ands my 15M cable is working [email protected], but it sounds like this is still a totally unshielded copper cable (unlike, say, coax) and not even twisted pair. I'd definitely like some evidence eARC, on this and other hybrid cables, is as solid and reliable as the fiber video connection, even in a possibly electromagnetically "noisy" crowded conduit .


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> Don't get me wrong Ruipro seem to be the good guys ands my 15M cable is working [email protected], but it sounds like this is still a totally unshielded copper cable (unlike, say, coax) and not even twisted pair. I'd definitely like some evidence eARC, on this and other hybrid cables, is as solid and reliable as the fiber video connection, even in a possibly electromagnetically "noisy" crowded conduit .



The copper wire is AWG 26/28/30/shielded/twisted. The current Ruipro cables are tested by Simplay Labs, which is an ATC using the latest testing equipment authorized by HDMI.org. However, the cables are active so they can't get the "certification" with the QR label like passive HDMI cables under 25' can.


----------



## jong1

Oh, OK, sounds good. Still, may not be true of all long active fiber cables and has proven an issue in the past. I still think eARC should be part of any testing regime.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> Belkin originally announced their "HDMI 2.1 capable" cable before the final ratification of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications and before CTS requirements were finalized. That sent up red flags for me. They provided no independent testing data or how they even determined that one, the cables were tested using specific industry-approved equipment or two, they worked in consumer devices, which was interesting because there were no fully compliant HDMI 2.1 consumer devices at the time. The cables may in fact work, and hopefully ARROW-AV's testing will show that, but given how much smoke and mirrors there are around HDMI 2.1 and HDMI cables in general, just because a mfr says their cables work is not good enough for me.


Thanks for the response Otto. The cables remain unproven for HDMI 2,1 and as they are two meters long it seems they are too short for Arrow-AV to test them.

A while back DVD player standards were changing rapidly and I bought so many DVD players that I began buying electronics with the future in mind-thus the Belkin Ultra High Speed cables. I don't recommend that strategy. And I think it will be more than a year in the future that I will need HDMI 2.1.


----------



## ARROW-AV

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. Will you also be using the SL-8800 Plus Protocol Analyzer and the SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL AVG?


In short, I don't know yet 

What I ideally would like to use would be new models of the excellent MURIDEO SIX-G Reference Signal Generator and SIX-A Reference Signal Analyzer in conjunction with the Simplay Labs equipment, however these don't exist yet! I am waiting on a response from MURIDEO regarding if and when these will become available.



Otto Pylot said:


> I agree about the need to adequately test the longer cable lengths for HDMI 2.1 reliability (Ultra 48Gbps). Shorter lengths, 25' or less, have already been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0b so that's a done deal. That being said, I'm not aware of any certification/testing program for HDMI 2.1 at the 1m - 3m maximum length as outlined in the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. At what length will you start your evaluations from? I've always felt that the "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" as mentioned in the HDMI 2.1 specifications would be a hybrid fiber cable (like Ruipro) so it would be interesting to see how well they will perform for the Ultra High Speed HDMI designation at around 10' and above. I do know from my informal testing of the shorter length Ruipro hybrid fiber cables that they have no issues at all with HDMI 2.0b (being an active cable is not a problem at short lengths) so hopefully that will transfer as well to HDMI 2.1.


At the present time I am assuming that there will indeed be the same equivalent certification/testing program for HDMI 2.1 at the 1m - 3m maximum length, as per with respect to the HDMI 2.0 cables. In which case I won't bother to test these. However, if it transpires that there won't then I will 



Otto Pylot said:


> I have three wishes on my cable wish list. One, is that HDMI.org would allow for certification of active cables. Two, cable mfrs would list which of the HDMI 2.1 hardware options their cables have been tested for and not just state "HDMI 2.1 compatible" or "tested for HDMI 2.1 specifications" and three, extend the certification length to 50' (passive or active). The consumer has been getting ripped off far too long with slick marketing and unsubstantiated claims. The Belkin cable released over a year ago is a prime example.


I 100% agree. It is utterly ridiculous that active cables cannot be certified. And I agree that the certification length across the board should be increased to 50'. It's a ludicrous situation there being no quality control / guarantee for the longer length cables 



jong1 said:


> Are you planning on testing eARC?


Yes 

:wink:


----------



## ARROW-AV

Postmoderndesign said:


> Thanks for the response Otto. The cables remain unproven for HDMI 2,1 and as they are two meters long it seems they are too short for Arrow-AV to test them.
> 
> A while back DVD player standards were changing rapidly and I bought so many DVD players that I began buying electronics with the future in mind-thus the Belkin Ultra High Speed cables. I don't recommend that strategy. And I think it will be more than a year in the future that I will need HDMI 2.1.


Like I have said, if it transpires that there is not going to be a testing / certification program with respect to the shorter length HDMI 2.1 cables, as per exists with respect to the HDMI 2.0 cables, then I will most certainly test them. But if there is, then I won't 

:wink:


----------



## ARROW-AV

Here's the production information / data sheet for the new RUIPRO8K HDMI 2.1 cables:




















:wink:


----------



## TrendSetterX

ARROW-AV said:


> Here's the production information / data sheet for the new RUIPRO8K HDMI 2.1 cables:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :wink:


Taking the listed specs literally, that new cable will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats.


----------



## ARROW-AV

TrendSetterX said:


> Taking the listed specs literally, that new cable will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats.


Sorry, I don't follow... Why exactly will these cables "_fail for all compressed 2.1 formats_" 

:wink:


----------



## TrendSetterX

*HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps &amp; HDMI 2.1*



ARROW-AV said:


> Sorry, I don't follow... Why exactly will these cables "_fail for all compressed 2.1 formats_"
> 
> 
> 
> :wink:


Because there’s a lot of marketing fluff there without any mention of supporting compressed but it does specifically mention uncompressed support. 

Also, and more importantly, because Valens, the largest and most referenced HDMI extension technology company (who’s tech is used in the vast majority of extension devices) doesn’t even have chips or firmware yet to support it - and RUIPRO beating them to the punch is slim to none.


----------



## jong1

ARROW-AV said:


> Sorry, I don't follow... Why exactly will these cables "_fail for all compressed 2.1 formats_"
> 
> :wink:


Probably because it says "supports uncompressed 8K video". I would think, though this is just trying to reaffirm they can handle up to 48Gbps and compressed video should be indistinguishable to the cable, but definitely worth checking.



TrendSetterX said:


> Because there’s a lot of marketing fluff there without any mention of supporting compressed but it does specifically mention uncompressed support.
> 
> Also, and more importantly, because Valens, the largest and most referenced HDMI extension technology company (who’s tech is used in the vast majority of extension devices) doesn’t even have chips or firmware yet to support it - and RUIPRO beating them to the punch is slim to none.


Our posts passed in the night! I think it's probably just poor wording. When it comes to what you are saying about Valens, my understanding would be that Ruipro don't need to do the compression/decompression they would expect the source/sink to do that, so they should be good, but I agree it needs testing.


----------



## TrendSetterX

jong1 said:


> Probably because it says "supports uncompressed 8K video". I would think, though this is just trying to reaffirm they can handle up to 48Gbps and compressed video should be indistinguishable to the cable, but definitely worth checking.


Incorrect. Existing chipsets expect uncompressed hdmi content that they then compress themselves. They won’t know what to do with compressed content coming in.


----------



## jong1

I hear what you say, but I don't think we know. I don't see why the cable should care if the data it is fed is compressed or uncompressed - it's all just data. Provided it's within 48Gbps we should be good. But I fully accept, although I am an electronic engineer, I am not an HDMI signalling expert, so we will need to see.

I guess it may come down to whether Ruipro do, in fact, compress HDMI. I don't see why they would need to when sending over fiber (although it is needed over Cat cabling). I honestly don't know for sure though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> Oh, OK, sounds good. Still, may not be true of all long active fiber cables and has proven an issue in the past. I still think eARC should be part of any testing regime.



Keep in mind that active fiber cables and active hybrid fiber cables are different. I agree that eARC should be part of the testing protocols and in the case of the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables, they are. Until Ruipro is done with their HDMI 2.1 testing, they will not "jump the gun" and make claims like other cable mfrs have done. eARC does pass the testing protocols for 5m and 15m, it's just the 30m that is causing issues. Hopefully ARROW-AV will be another independent source that can verify Ruipro's and other mfrs claims. I have faith in Ruipro .


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Incorrect. Existing chipsets expect uncompressed hdmi content that they then compress themselves. They won’t know what to do with compressed content coming in.



This is why all cable mfrs, even Ruipro, should list which options/features their cables have been tested for and passed. It would certainly be a long list (just looking at the compressed/uncompressed features of HDMI 2.1 is daunting) but at least the consumer would know the full capabilities of the cable. "Compatible with HDMI 2.1 Standard" is probably a short cut for meaning that all data formats covered under the HDMI 2.1 standard are supported but it's not entirely clear. Valens is mostly noted for HDBT and the supporting chipsets, and those chipsets are coming. Being an industry, leader as far as we know there could be a collaboration going on with Ruipro and Valens. Too much speculation at this point in time for any of this, especially worrying about 8k and beyond.


The major concern right now is getting reliable 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0b) to devices that are 50' and longer from the source to the sink. My guess is that the Ruipro cables, and hopefully other mfrs, will be able to achieve this and then go on to the next step which will be cables that can reliably transmit fully compliant HDMI 2.1 data. We're still a couple of years away from HDMI 2.1 devices and content being the norm so there's still plenty of time to work out the issues. Probably not for the gamers though


----------



## jong1

Otto Pylot said:


> jong1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, OK, sounds good. Still, may not be true of all long active fiber cables and has proven an issue in the past. I still think eARC should be part of any testing regime.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that active fiber cables and active hybrid fiber cables are different. I agree that eARC should be part of the testing protocols and in the case of the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables, they are. Until Ruipro is done with their HDMI 2.1 testing, they will not "jump the gun" and make claims like other cable mfrs have done. eARC does pass the testing protocols for 5m and 15m, it's just the 30m that is causing issues. Hopefully ARROW-AV will be another independent source that can verify Ruipro's and other mfrs claims. I have faith in Ruipro /forum/images/smilies/wink.gif.
Click to expand...

Oops! Typo on my part. I meant to say hybrid fiber! Active fiber is a bit of a tautology I feel!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> Oops! Typo on my part. I meant to say hybrid fiber! Active fiber is a bit of a tautology I feel!


----------



## john.odonnell01

Do we know if any of the 10-15 meter fiber optic HDMI cables support eARC?


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> Do we know if any of the 10-15 meter fiber optic HDMI cables support eARC?



The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable (I think they are calling it Ruirpo8K) has been tested and passed eARC for the 5m and 10m lengths. They are just becoming available in some consumer markets.


----------



## Joe Fernand

The RuiPro4K and NEW RuiPro8K cables - have both been 'bench' tested for eARC, tricky at present to do much in the way of real world testing though.

Joe


----------



## jong1

....and early bench testing has failed in the past with previous iterations of the HDMI spec (with many vendors, not a criticism of RuiPro) . So.... buyer beware, always put the cable in conduit for easy replacement!


----------



## Otto Pylot

jong1 said:


> ....and early bench testing has failed in the past with previous iterations of the HDMI spec (with many vendors, not a criticism of RuiPro) . So.... buyer beware, always put the cable in conduit for easy replacement!



I conversed with Ruipro yesterday and their new 8k cables have passed eARC testing for 10m and 15m. Hopefully ARROW-AV will be able to independently confirm that once they can get consumer devices that have been certified for eARC. As a side note, 48Gbps is not an issue for the new 8k at those lengths. 



I agree 100% about conduit. At this point in time, if consumers are wanting the latest HDMI options, and they have runs over 20', it is foolish to not install conduit if you don't have easy access to the cable for installation and update. The cables are only going to improve which means swapping out cables at some future point.


----------



## BreakPoint

Here is an interesting article from June 13 about HDMI 2.1 official certification which should be available in a few months. Also some cable prototype certified packaging photos.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14534/hdmi-forum-certification-program-for-ultra-high-speed-hdmi-48g-incoming


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## Otto Pylot

Ruipro is working with Simplay Labs on testing and certifying their 8k cables. Simplay Labs is an ATC, but until HDMI.org allows for certification of active cables, “official” certification, with some form of documentation is still a ways off. I don’t know who other hybrid fiber cable mfrs are using for their certification. CTS testing for the HDMI 2.1 specs has been approved and in place since about the first of the year. Cable prototypes that are supposedly fully HDMI 2.1 compliant were demonstrated at CES this year, but without consumer-ready devices or sources to use them with, it’s still speculation as to how well they will truly perform beyond the initial 3m distance, which brings us back to an active cable.


----------



## MMC57

TrendSetterX said:


> Taking the listed specs literally, that new cable will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats.


Why do you say it will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats?

I am in the process of renovating my theater room and want to put 2.1 cables in just in case for the future but do not want a cable with any issues.

Right now input source is from a cable box and streaming devices.. so is compressed signals from these devices an issue with these new cables?

I am just a consumer that wants the equipment to work without issues.

Thanks for any comments you can provide.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> Why do you say it will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats?
> 
> I am in the process of renovating my theater room and want to put 2.1 cables in just in case for the future but do not want a cable with any issues.
> 
> Right now input source is from a cable box and streaming devices.. so is compressed signals from these devices an issue with these new cables?
> 
> I am just a consumer that wants the equipment to work without issues.
> 
> Thanks for any comments you can provide.


No such thing as HDMI 2.1 cables. When released, they should, or probably will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables. I'm not sure what TrendSetterX means that the new cables will fail for all compressed data. The Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables, from the data I've seen, pass all of the video formats , compressed and uncompressed, currently under the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. What you can get is more dependent on the version of the HDMI chipsets at the source/sink end than the actual data path (cable) itself.

No cable will be 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup, so there's always going to be a bit of trial and error. That includes the Premium High Speed HDMI cables (passive) that are certified by HDMI.org. 

The best you can do is run your cabling in a conduit (1.5" - 2.0"), with a pull string, so as to make swapping out cables or adding more as needed easier and safer. That truly is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling, unless you have easy access to your cabling and they are not in-wall/ceiling. Cabling standards are always going to lag behind video standards so as the video standards change, so will the cables, regardless of the smoke and mirrors and claims that cable mfrs make in their product descriptions and marketing.

At this point in time, I think the best you can do is install hybrid fibers cables (Ruipro) inside a conduit and hope for the best. They are not cheap and once their Ruipro8k cables are released, you can either upgrade to them or just wait till they come out and purchase then. If you need cables now, go for their current Ruipro4k cables.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'I am just a consumer that wants the equipment to work without issues' _- I suspect most on AVS are already in that Club 

As Otto says ensure you install the best cable you can to meet current requirements and also ensure it is easily replaced as they can fail, be damaged or become obsolete.

Joe


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> No such thing as HDMI 2.1 cables. When released, they should, or probably will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables. I'm not sure what TrendSetterX means that the new cables will fail for all compressed data. The Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables, from the data I've seen, pass all of the video formats , compressed and uncompressed, currently under the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. What you can get is more dependent on the version of the HDMI chipsets at the source/sink end than the actual data path (cable) itself.
> 
> No cable will be 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup, so there's always going to be a bit of trial and error. That includes the Premium High Speed HDMI cables (passive) that are certified by HDMI.org.
> 
> The best you can do is run your cabling in a conduit (1.5" - 2.0"), with a pull string, so as to make swapping out cables or adding more as needed easier and safer. That truly is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling, unless you have easy access to your cabling and they are not in-wall/ceiling. Cabling standards are always going to lag behind video standards so as the video standards change, so will the cables, regardless of the smoke and mirrors and claims that cable mfrs make in their product descriptions and marketing.
> 
> At this point in time, I think the best you can do is install hybrid fibers cables (Ruipro) inside a conduit and hope for the best. They are not cheap and once their Ruipro8k cables are released, you can either upgrade to them or just wait till they come out and purchase then. If you need cables now, go for their current Ruipro4k cables.




What is the ETA for the Ruipro 8k series release?

Thanks.

Mark


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## TrendSetterX

*HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps &amp; HDMI 2.1*



Otto Pylot said:


> I'm not sure what TrendSetterX means that the new cables will fail for all compressed data. The Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables, from the data I've seen, pass all of the video formats , compressed and uncompressed, currently under the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications.


There has been nothing posted or stated that RUIPRO “8K” can support compressed formats. If anything, the marketing material states the opposite. Since the largest manufacturers of HDMI chipsets are still working on support - it’s extremely doubtful that RUIPRO has full support now and they don’t. As we’ve all seen with HDMI cabling over long distances, the proof is in the pudding and we should all be pessimistic as to support until actual tests show otherwise.


----------



## TrendSetterX

*HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps &amp; HDMI 2.1*



MMC57 said:


> Why do you say it will fail for all compressed 2.1 formats?


From the literature so far provided by RUIPRO, and given that Valens doesn’t even have full support for compressed formats yet, it doesn’t look like the RUIPRO will support compressed 2.1 formats. So, technically, The cable will fail these tests when AV Arrow performs them.

How it will act for the end user depends on how RUIPRO implemented their firmware.

Assuming the RUIPRO does not support compressed formats when used between HDMI 2.1 devices that support the full range of compressed and uncompressed formats:

Best case scenario: the RUIPRO doesn’t get confused by EDID information from display and source that lists support for compressed formats and, instead supplants its own EDID info stating more limited support (which will tell the source system not to try to send compressed formats). So in this case, the cable should work fine for all non-compressed formats and the user won’t even see an option on their source system to provide the higher-bandwidth signals.

Not-So-Great-Case: the RUIPRO passes the EDID information as-is between source and display so the source device believes it can safely transmit both uncompressed and compressed signals - also note that in this scenario, source devices will be eager to use compression because it will allow longer runs and/or cheaper cables to work now under compression whereas they wouldn’t before as uncompressed. Because the RUIPRO doesn’t know what to do with a compressed signal (and given that the source device thinks it can send compressed) any compressed signal that the source device sends will fail at the cable and not make it to the display. Because the source device will be operating on eager compression mode, some formats that may not be compressed today that would work will stop working with the RUIPRO on 2.1.


Worst-Case: the RUIPRO gets confused by the unknown EDID info and crashes, failing to work at all. (This was seen as recently as 2018 with Denon receivers that didn’t understand the VRR EDID being sent by 2018 Samsung displays). In this case the end user get no signal at all.

Now while all that was in reference specifically to RUIPRO, it applies equally to any active HDMI technology that’s currently on the market.


----------



## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> What is the ETA for the Ruipro 8k series release?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Don't know. They are still being evaluated by Simplay Labs (an ATC) as well as independent testing by AV-ARROW.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> From the literature so far provided by RUIPRO, and given that Valens doesn’t even have full support for compressed formats yet, it doesn’t look like the RUIPRO will support compressed 2.1 formats. So, technically, The cable will fail these tests when AV Arrow performs them.


In my personal communications with Ruipro they state quite the opposite. Are you referring to VESA compression by any chance? If you have an example of compressed formats post them or message me and I'll ask them about those formats specifically.


----------



## MMC57

TrendSetterX said:


> From the literature so far provided by RUIPRO, and given that Valens doesn’t even have full support for compressed formats yet, it doesn’t look like the RUIPRO will support compressed 2.1 formats. So, technically, The cable will fail these tests when AV Arrow performs them.
> 
> How it will act for the end user depends on how RUIPRO implemented their firmware.
> 
> Assuming the RUIPRO does not support compressed formats when used between HDMI 2.1 devices that support the full range of compressed and uncompressed formats:
> 
> Best case scenario: the RUIPRO doesn’t get confused by EDID information from display and source that lists support for compressed formats and, instead supplants its own EDID info stating more limited support (which will tell the source system not to try to send compressed formats). So in this case, the cable should work fine for all non-compressed formats and the user won’t even see an option on their source system to provide the higher-bandwidth signals.
> 
> Not-So-Great-Case: the RUIPRO passes the EDID information as-is between source and display so the source device believes it can safely transmit both uncompressed and compressed signals - also note that in this scenario, source devices will be eager to use compression because it will allow longer runs and/or cheaper cables to work now under compression whereas they wouldn’t before as uncompressed. Because the RUIPRO doesn’t know what to do with a compressed signal (and given that the source device thinks it can send compressed) any compressed signal that the source device sends will fail at the cable and not make it to the display. Because the source device will be operating on eager compression mode, some formats that may not be compressed today that would work will stop working with the RUIPRO on 2.1.
> 
> 
> Worst-Case: the RUIPRO gets confused by the unknown EDID info and crashes, failing to work at all. (This was seen as recently as 2018 with Denon receivers that didn’t understand the VRR EDID being sent by 2018 Samsung displays). In this case the end user get no signal at all.
> 
> Now while all that was in reference specifically to RUIPRO, it applies equally to any active HDMI technology that’s currently on the market.


I am no expert with cables or HDMI but I thought the purpose of a fiber optical HDMI cable was to:

Convert the HDMI electrical signal to light at the source and then the light is converted back to a HDMI electrical signal at the display.

I thought the difference between a compressed video signal vs uncompressed video signal is that the file size is smaller for the compressed file.

If the file size does not exceed 48GBPS then why would it fail?

Does not make sense to me.... but again I am looking at this from a simple perspective.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> I am no expert with cables or HDMI but I thought the purpose of a fiber optical HDMI cable was to:
> 
> Convert the HDMI electrical signal to light at the source and then the light is converted back to a HDMI electrical signal at the display.
> 
> I thought the difference between a compressed video signal vs uncompressed video signal is that the file size is smaller for the compressed file.
> 
> If the file size does not exceed 48GBPS then why would it fail?
> 
> Does not make sense to me.... but again I am looking at this from a simple perspective.


It doesn't make sense. These are the HDMI 2.1 video specs:

*Q: Will [email protected] or [email protected] require a new cable? *
A: Yes, in order to ensure performance and compatibility the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable is required. 
*Q: What are the supported resolutions and frame rates? *
A:


4K50/60
4K100/120
5K50/60
5K100/120
8K50/60
8K100/120
10K50/60
10K100/120
 *Q: Is compression used to achieve those resolutions and frame rates? *
A: The specification supports both uncompressed and compressed modes. Manufacturers can implement either or both modes. The designations are:


 4K100A – supports uncompressed mode
 4K100B – supports compressed mode
 4K100AB – supports both
 4K120A – supports uncompressed mode
 4K120B – supports compressed mode
 4K120AB – supports both
 8K50A – supports uncompressed mode
 8K50B – supports compressed mode
 8K50AB – supports both
 8K60A – supports uncompressed mode
 8K60B – supports compressed mode
 8K60AB – supports both
A= compressed, B=uncompressed, AB=both


If the Ruipro8k cables pass testing by Simplay Labs as being fully compatible to HDMI 2.1 specifications then it's a non-issue. The problem with testing at this point in time is that there aren't any consumer devices that the cables can be tested on that meet all of those options so Ruipro and other mfrs have to rely upon new testing equipment, once it is certified, to test on. 48Gbps is the bandwidth, not the file size, that is needed to reliably push the data from point A to point B and still maintain signal integrity. It is very difficult at this point in time to meet all of the specifications but it is doable. Distance is also a big issue (especially with ARC and/or eARC), and is one of the specifications that the cable mfrs are dealing with for lengths longer than 10m. I don't believe that a copper-only cable will be able to reliably handle the demands of HDMI 2.1, 8k and beyond unless you use a very thick gauge wire, which is just not practical. Even HDMI.org in one of the first releases of the new specifications stated that a "special 48Gbps HDMI cable" would be needed.


The fiber is needed to be able to transmit the amount of data that will be required for fully compliant HDMI 2.1 that copper-only can't (think light speed). The chipsets at either end of the cable "coordinate" that data so that what it gets from the source end is what is delivered to the sink end without issues. That's a very simplistic and not too technical description but you get the idea.


There are other mfrs of hybrid fiber cables but Ruipro is who I have worked with (and currently use on my system) and who has a very good reputation with their 4k cables and distance from other AVS members.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> It doesn't make sense.


It does.
Let's boil this down...

What the RUIPRO (or any active cable/tech) does between its own ends (i.e. along its own cable) is moot and unimportant in this conversation. What _is_ important is what the little computers embedded at each end of the cable are doing. Those computers are programmed to accept/receive/look-for a specific kind of data (for sake of simplicity, I'm going to focus on the actual media stream and not the EDID or other metadata information which can also be problematic). Think about your home computer and let's say I email you a file named "MyFile.ggg" (remember that .ggg extension tells the computer OS what kind of file it is and therefore what program to use to open it). Since I just made up the .ggg format/file, your computer wont' know how to open it - your computer would have to have a program or CODEC installed to be able to understand and open the MyFile.ggg that I sent you. Now if we apply that to the little computers at the ends of "active" tech HDMI cabling, you need to understand that up until HDMI 2.1 was announced, all they ever had to know about was an uncompressed stream being passed to them. They didn't need to know anything about a compressed stream so, like my MyFile.ggg example above, if you try to give them a compressed stream, they're going to go "what is this? I don't know how to open this so I'm going to show you no screen at all." Then, to add complexity on top of that, you have to consider the additional/different metadata (additional EDID enumerations, etc) that the firmware developers for those little computers at each end of the cable have to have made allowances for ahead of time without knowing what the EDIDs might be (again, as recently as last year, you had major products getting confused over new EDID information so it's not unheard of).

Simplifying your table that you took from the public-facing HDMI 2.1 faq and adding additional missing items:

 4K24AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 4K30AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 4K50AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 4K60AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 4K100AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 4K120AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 8K50AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
 8K60AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
There are so many possible variables (assuming a source and display that can both handle the full range of compressed and uncompressed formats in HDMI 2.1 and that the source device operates in compression-eager mode)

[Active Cable] doesn't support compressed formats
[Active Cable] strips compressed support from display EDID
The source device believes the display can't handle any compressed formats and therefore only sends compressed formats that the [Active Cable] says it can handle.
Uncompressed formats: Success_ (assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_
Compressed formats: Not-Applicable (the source device doesn't try to send them)


[Active Cable] does not strip compressed support from display EDID
The source device believes the display can handle any format (compressed or uncompressed) so it sends it compressed in order to have greater cable compatibility (which hurts us here because greater cable compatibility applies to passive cables not active)
Uncompressed formats: Success_ (assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions) _
Compressed formats: Fail to display



[Active Cable] does support compressed formats
Uncompressed formats: Success _(assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_
Compressed formats: Success _(assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_


My guess is that RUIPRO will/is likely to take the approach of "[Active Cable] strips compressed support from display EDID" being as they've already invested in their own signaling technology and this allows them to just ignore the compressed formats (although the writing is on the wall that future HDMI specs will be entirely compressed - but that's probably 10 years down the road). While this approach is successful, it's arguable that it's not pure/full 2.1 compliant because it doesn't tick all the boxes.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ok. Assuming you are correct on all of your points (and I am not doubting your knowledge on the subject), what's the bottom line for the average consumer who just wants a reliable cable connection? Do they need all of the possible permutations of compressed vs uncompressed data? Will they even be able to tell the difference? Is it more important for the gamers or the non-gamers? Whatever Ruipro and the other hybrid fiber cable mfrs decide to implement, or are able to implement in their active connectors is out of the control of the end-user. We will get what they give us and most will never know the difference and be blissfully happy. Hopefully the cable mfrs, and device mfrs, will list which formats their "cables" have passed so the consumer will know if it is going to meet their needs or not.

I still stand by my statement that if one is to purchase a cable TODAY for trouble-free 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0), then they really can't do any better for the long runs than a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k). If they want to purchase "for the future", then install that cable in a conduit now if the cable is not easily accessible, and then when HDMI 2.1 devices are out in the wild and widely in use, upgrade to a Ruipro8k and hopefully that will meet their needs. I doubt if we will see any cable that will be able to adequately handle ALL of the possible HDMI 2.1 formats proposed by the specification, especially at the long lengths. And if we do, it will be VERY expensive. More so than the current crop hybrid fiber cables.

And yes, I did take my table from the HDMI.org site. A lot of folks don't want to bother with finding information for themselves so I posted it for them.


----------



## MMC57

TrendSetterX said:


> It does.
> Let's boil this down...
> 
> What the RUIPRO (or any active cable/tech) does between its own ends (i.e. along its own cable) is moot and unimportant in this conversation. What _is_ important is what the little computers embedded at each end of the cable are doing. Those computers are programmed to accept/receive/look-for a specific kind of data (for sake of simplicity, I'm going to focus on the actual media stream and not the EDID or other metadata information which can also be problematic). Think about your home computer and let's say I email you a file named "MyFile.ggg" (remember that .ggg extension tells the computer OS what kind of file it is and therefore what program to use to open it). Since I just made up the .ggg format/file, your computer wont' know how to open it - your computer would have to have a program or CODEC installed to be able to understand and open the MyFile.ggg that I sent you. Now if we apply that to the little computers at the ends of "active" tech HDMI cabling, you need to understand that up until HDMI 2.1 was announced, all they ever had to know about was an uncompressed stream being passed to them. They didn't need to know anything about a compressed stream so, like my MyFile.ggg example above, if you try to give them a compressed stream, they're going to go "what is this? I don't know how to open this so I'm going to show you no screen at all." Then, to add complexity on top of that, you have to consider the additional/different metadata (additional EDID enumerations, etc) that the firmware developers for those little computers at each end of the cable have to have made allowances for ahead of time without knowing what the EDIDs might be (again, as recently as last year, you had major products getting confused over new EDID information so it's not unheard of).
> 
> Simplifying your table that you took from the public-facing HDMI 2.1 faq and adding additional missing items:
> 
> 4K24AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 4K30AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 4K50AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 4K60AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 4K100AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 4K120AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 8K50AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> 8K60AB – supports both compressed and uncompressed mode
> There are so many possible variables (assuming a source and display that can both handle the full range of compressed and uncompressed formats in HDMI 2.1 and that the source device operates in compression-eager mode)
> 
> [Active Cable] doesn't support compressed formats
> [Active Cable] strips compressed support from display EDID
> The source device believes the display can't handle any compressed formats and therefore only sends compressed formats that the [Active Cable] says it can handle.
> Uncompressed formats: Success_ (assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_
> Compressed formats: Not-Applicable (the source device doesn't try to send them)
> 
> 
> [Active Cable] does not strip compressed support from display EDID
> The source device believes the display can handle any format (compressed or uncompressed) so it sends it compressed in order to have greater cable compatibility (which hurts us here because greater cable compatibility applies to passive cables not active)
> Uncompressed formats: Success_ (assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions) _
> Compressed formats: Fail to display
> 
> 
> 
> [Active Cable] does support compressed formats
> Uncompressed formats: Success _(assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_
> Compressed formats: Success _(assuming [Active Cable] properly handles all resolutions)_
> 
> 
> My guess is that RUIPRO will/is likely to take the approach of "[Active Cable] strips compressed support from display EDID" being as they've already invested in their own signaling technology and this allows them to just ignore the compressed formats (although the writing is on the wall that future HDMI specs will be entirely compressed - but that's probably 10 years down the road). While this approach is successful, it's arguable that it's not pure/full 2.1 compliant because it doesn't tick all the boxes.


I will try and install a conduit as this seems like a complete mess!

How do passive cables handle uncompressed vs compressed? I assume a passive cable has no processing in the ends and is just a copper wire with HDMI ends.

Since I am going to a ceiling projector I need 10 M to 12 M so passive cables for 4K or 8K will not work.

It seems crazy that yo could sell a cable as 4K or 8K and not be able to process all the different formats.

Very frustrating to read all the potential problems when all I want to do is buy a dam cable that works.


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## jong1

@TrendSetterX is overloading us with science here 😄, but I don't think he is right. It's true for Cat-based solutions because cat cabling cannot support the raw 48Gb/s data rate (pre-compression) of HDMI 2.1 and they have to add their own compression.

Optical fiber doesn't have the same constraints, there should be no need to add a secondary level of compression.

Ruipro should not need to worry about the compression being performed by the HDMI chipsets in the HDMI 2.1 source, decoded by the HDMI 2.1 sink (say display or AVR). To the Ruipro it's just 48Gb/s of data, transparently transported. It is the chipsets in the devices on either end that need to make sense of that data as @TrendSetterX describes.

For comparison, it's similar to how all of the electronic equipment transporting the compressed video of YouTube, Netflix etc. and even zip files from computer to computer and server to TV, does not need to worry about that - it is all just data and making sense of it is done at the end points.

But, I do agree that nothing is guaranteed until it's out there in the real world. We will see.


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## TrendSetterX

jong1 said:


> @TrendSetterX is overloading us with science here , but I don't think he is right. It's true for Cat-based solutions because cat cabling cannot support the raw 48Gb/s data rate (pre-compression) of HDMI 2.1 and they have to add their own compression.
> 
> 
> 
> Optical fiber doesn't have the same constraints, there should be no need to add a secondary level of compression.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruipro should not need to worry about the compression being performed by the HDMI chipsets in the HDMI 2.1 source, decoded by the HDMI 2.1 sink (say display or AVR).


Incorrect - the little computer at the source end of the RUIPRO still needs to understand what’s coming in in order to convert it to the optical-based signal.



jong1 said:


> For comparison, it's similar to how all of the electronic equipment transporting the compressed video of YouTube, Netflix etc. and even zip files from computer to computer and server to TV, does not need to worry about that - it is all just data and making sense of it is done at the end points.


Actually you just proved my point. There are major apps (YouTube, for example) that use non-standard CODECS for UHD data and some major devices (AppleTv, for example, in terms of YouTube 4K) don’t understand that CODEC so they can’t/won’t display those formats.


----------



## jong1

TrendSetterX said:


> Incorrect - the little computer at the source end of the RUIPRO still needs to understand what’s coming in in order to convert it to the optical-based signal.


I still don't think you are right .

I don't see any reason why the Ruipro needs to understand the data it's receiving in order to convert it to optical any more than a basic copper cable does. As long as it provides the same data out as it got in then it is only the HDMI chipset in the sink and source (e.g. Roku and TV or AVR and TV) that needs to understand that data. Remember we are only talking about the video data here, not the DDC.



TrendSetterX said:


> Actually you just proved my point. There are major apps (YouTube, for example) that use non-standard CODECS for UHD data and some major devices (AppleTv, for example, in terms of YouTube 4K) don’t understand that CODEC so they can’t/won’t display those formats.


Sorry, that doesn't prove your point at all. Apple TV cannot support YouTube 4K because it is running the app at the end of the chain decoding the YouTube stream. None of the hardware between that app and YouTube's servers needs to understand that codec in order to _transport _it and that is the analogy here.

What I am clear about is your assumption based on Valun's predicament is invalid. Valun have a big challenge just enabling 48Gb/s over Cat cabling (even Cat 7 is rated up to only 10Gb/s, although in "lab conditions" it can go higher) and need to compress the data to achieve it. In trying to support the pre-compressed formats of HDMI 2.1. which actually require more than 48Gb/s when uncompressed, this becomes a REAL challenge. It is like trying to further compress a JPEG image or MP4 file. It's hard. You see this when you zip a load of JPEGs - the file size barely changes.

But I do accept that nothing is certain until real gear is around to test it. It's possible there is a got-ya here somewhere (I don't work for Ruipro!), just saying that Valun's problem and that of other copper/Cat-cable extenders does not really inform us about Hybrid Fiber, where the fiber has a transmission capacity far in excess of that required by HDMI 2.1.


----------



## MMC57

jong1 said:


> I still don't think you are right .
> 
> I don't see any reason why the Ruipro needs to understand the data it's receiving in order to convert it to optical any more than a basic copper cable does. As long as it provides the same data out as it got in then it is only the HDMI chipset in the sink and source (e.g. Roku and TV or AVR and TV) that needs to understand that data. Remember we are only talking about the video data here, not the DDC.
> 
> Sorry, that doesn't prove your point at all. Apple TV cannot support YouTube 4K because it is running the app at the end of the chain decoding the YouTube stream. None of the hardware between that app and YouTube's servers needs to understand that codec in order to _transport _it and that is the analogy here.
> 
> What I am clear about is your assumption based on Valun's predicament is invalid. Valun have a big challenge just enabling 48Gb/s over Cat cabling (even Cat 7 is rated up to only 10Gb/s, although in "lab conditions" it can go higher) and need to compress the data to achieve it. In trying to support the pre-compressed formats of HDMI 2.1. which actually require more than 48Gb/s when uncompressed, this becomes a REAL challenge. It is like trying to further compress a JPEG image or MP4 file. It's hard. You see this when you zip a load of JPEGs - the file size barely changes.
> 
> But I do accept that nothing is certain until real gear is around to test it. It's possible there is a got-ya here somewhere (I don't work for Ruipro!), just saying that Valun's problem and that of other copper/Cat-cable extenders does not really inform us about Hybrid Fiber, where the fiber has a transmission capacity far in excess of that required by HDMI 2.1.


What does Valens Chipsets that are designed to work with COPPER Category Cable have to do with Fiber Optic cable?

https://www.valens.com/press-releas...g-the-av-industry-with-uncompressed-4k-60-444

I thought the reason to go to Fiber Optic cable (at an added expense) was to over come the limitations of passive Copper HDMI cables at longer distances.

Why does an Active Fiber Optic cable need to know what "type" of signal is coming out of your AVR HDMI port BUT a passive Copper HDMI cable does not?

Seems to me that somewhere clarification needs to be issued by the folks who wrote the dam HDMI standard as we are referencing RUIPRO but this discussion applies to all Fiber Optic HDMI producers and I guess Active Copper HDMI producers as well.

I would think that trying to stuff 48 GBPS down a Cat 6 or higher cable is a lot more difficult then sending 48 GBPS over a fiber optic cable.

Again this whole conversation is frustrating to hear and also that a Standard could be written without definitive test protocols in place when the standard was completed to confirm if the dam thing complies or not.

I served on technical committees related to building materials and was a manufacturer and it would be unheard of to produce a product standard WITHOUT the appropriate methods to test in order to confirm 100% compliance with the governing Standard.

I have no idea who is running the HDMI committee that governs these products but it is a complete joke!.


----------



## jong1

Yes, you are making exactly my point.


----------



## Otto Pylot

One of the problems is that CTS testing protocols were finally ratified around the first of the year, long after the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols were and the designs sent to the chip mfrs. Not good. ATC's like Simplay Labs were initially only taking on the connectors for CTS testing early in the year. The physical cables are just now being tested to meet those specifications. Fiber is being used for the new HDMI protocols and beyond simply because it just has a higher bandwidth capacity which is needed for the new standards. As has been mentioned, lab testing is much different than real world use. The reason is that there just aren't enough verified consumer devices to test this new crop of HDMI cables on, and lab testing equipment needs to be upgraded/designed as well. For those reasons I think it is just way too early to make blanket statements that hybrid fiber cables will not be able to pass compressed data. How well that is accomplished may be important to the "theoreticians" but not so much to the end-user. Copper cables alone will probably prove to not be reliable enough. The best bet going forward will more than likely be hybrid fiber cables.

The HDMI protocols are a bit vague on cable types, which doesn't help. They only state that the maximum length is 2m - 3m (6' - 9') for passive cables. Wire, passive, active, is allowable. But there is no specific mention of fiber or hybrid fiber. That's probably why there is big push by cable mfrs, not just Ruipro, to take advantage of both technologies to deliver reliable cable connections that can meet all of most of the demanding HDMI 2.1 specifications.


----------



## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> One of the problems is that CTS testing protocols were finally ratified around the first of the year, long after the HDMI 2.1 hardware protocols were and the designs sent to the chip mfrs. Not good. ATC's like Simplay Labs were initially only taking on the connectors for CTS testing early in the year. The physical cables are just now being tested to meet those specifications. Fiber is being used for the new HDMI protocols and beyond simply because it just has a higher bandwidth capacity which is needed for the new standards. As has been mentioned, lab testing is much different than real world use. The reason is that there just aren't enough verified consumer devices to test this new crop of HDMI cables on, and lab testing equipment needs to be upgraded/designed as well. For those reasons I think it is just way too early to make blanket statements that hybrid fiber cables will not be able to pass compressed data. How well that is accomplished may be important to the "theoreticians" but not so much to the end-user. Copper cables alone will probably prove to not be reliable enough. The best bet going forward will more than likely be hybrid fiber cables.
> 
> The HDMI protocols are a bit vague on cable types, which doesn't help. They only state that the maximum length is 2m - 3m (6' - 9') for passive cables. Wire, passive, active, is allowable. But there is no specific mention of fiber or hybrid fiber. That's probably why there is big push by cable mfrs, not just Ruipro, to take advantage of both technologies to deliver reliable cable connections that can meet all of most of the demanding HDMI 2.1 specifications.


If the cables do not work in the future with "verified consumer devices" how do we know these devices are correct.

The reason you have a STANDARD in the first place is to ensure the interchangeability of the products that are governed by the STANDARD.

In the industry I worked in... first you would be laughed at ... then a lawsuit ... if you told customers that the product you buy might work... and might not work.. just buy it and hope for the best!

Either your product meets the STANDARD or it does not.... if you market your product that it meets the STANDARD when you know it does not meet the STANDARD that is fraud plain and simply.

If you do not have independent confirmation by a third party to show compliance then you need to wait to go to market.

When a TV, AVR, Projector, HDMI cable says it meets HDMI 2.1 then it should meet all the requirements of the document.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MMC57 said:


> If the cables do not work in the future with "verified consumer devices" how do we know these devices are correct.
> 
> The reason you have a STANDARD in the first place is to ensure the interchangeability of the products that are governed by the STANDARD.
> 
> In the industry I worked in... first you would be laughed at ... then a lawsuit ... if you told customers that the product you buy might work... and might not work.. just buy it and hope for the best!
> 
> Either your product meets the STANDARD or it does not.... if you market your product that it meets the STANDARD when you know it does not meet the STANDARD that is fraud plain and simply.
> 
> If you do not have independent confirmation by a third party to show compliance then you need to wait to go to market.
> 
> When a TV, AVR, Projector, HDMI cable says it meets HDMI 2.1 then it should meet all the requirements of the document.


Correct! And that has been the problem with HDMI almost since its inception. The hardware protocols are fine for the ever-evolving video standards. Its the connection technology that has always lagged behind and is where the problem lies. Just look at how cables have been and are being marketed now. To me it's a lot of false advertising and claims just to get folks who don't know any better (I fear the majority of consumers outside of AVS) to buy into overly expensive cables (Monster, AudioQuest comes to mind) when cables costing much less work just as well. However, as the newer video standards become more demanding and require that cables handle more and more, the "industry" should have put as much energy (R&D) into ensuring that the transport mechanism (cable) was ready to meet those demands when the new standards and devices were released. But device mfrs and cable mfrs have different end goals and the consumer is caught in the middle. That's the idea behind certification and something that HDMI et al should have demanded from day one. Any cable that is sold or marketed for a specific HDMI protocol set must be validated by a standardized set or procedures that is recognized by the industry and cable mfrs. That hasn't happened to the extent that it needs to be. It's expensive to do that and all the cable and device mfrs want to do is increase their bottom line as effectively and cheaply as is possible. The market is just flooded with cables, good ones, bad ones, cheap Chinese knock-offs and counterfeits all to the confusion, dismay, and anger of the consumer.

I think starting with HDMI 2.0 and maybe even HDMI 1.4 the cable industry started to pay attention to the anger and confusion of consumers. Too little too late in my opinion. HDMI.org even went as far as to ask that cable mfrs not to label their cables with the hardware specification and just use the Standard or High Speed designations. The "Premium" designation was a step in the right direction to separate certified cables from non-certified cables. They even setup "rules" for marketing in HDMI 2.1. However, none of that is enforceable and they left it up to the cable mfrs as to whether they would follow that or not, or how they would market their products. 

HDMI.org should have also worked much closer with the device mfrs to ensure that if the device was marketed as "HDMI 2.0" that compatibility with different mfrs would not be an issue (CEC is a glaring example). However, in the case of CEC, they just left it up to the various device mfrs as to how they wanted to implement that protocol option. That in turn makes if difficult for the cable mfrs, not that they are above any blame. Certification then did not offer the consumer 100% compatibility as one would hope because of that.

My hope is that companies like Ruipro and other mfrs of copper, fiber, and hybrid fiber cables will work closer with HDMI and the device mfrs to ensure that their cables will in fact be able to meet the new hardware specifications. Ideally, they would list which of the HDMI specifications their devices and cables have been tested and certified for so the consumer would know exactly what they are getting and not just assume that an HDMI 2.0/2.1 device and cable met all of the specifications.

However, the horse has long left the barn and I fear we will continually be stuck with this mess that's called HDMI.


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## Otto Pylot

Ok. Let's put this particular discussion to rest about hybrid fiber cables, compression, etc.

*Valens:*
This company is for HDBaseT technology, not for Active optic cables. Their solution is for active extenders only. Absolutely different technology from hybrid fiber.


*Extender *VS.* RUIPRO *VS.* Traditional Copper HDMI cable*

HDBaseT Extenders use Cat5/6 cable for transmission. As we know Cat5/6 cable has 8 wires. Their technology needs to process/convert all data by their proprietary technology, then transport the data via 8 wires. That is very difficult to do reliably over long distances on copper wire alone.

HDMI defines 19+1 wires. So copper HDMI cables have 19+1 copper wires.

RUIPRO's structure is made of 4 optic wires and 8 copper wires. The 4 optic wires are used for high speed data instead of the traditional HDMI copper 1-12wires. RRUIPRO's 8 copper wires work for the low speed data of the traditional HDMI 13-19 and +1 line. What Ruipro does is just use fiber to transport the high speed data of the HDMI with 0 loss. Any signal, as long as the source and display can deal with it, will work just fine with the hybrid fiber cable.


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## MMC57

Otto Pylot said:


> Ok. Let's put this particular discussion to rest about hybrid fiber cables, compression, etc.
> 
> *Valens:*
> This company is for HDBaseT technology, not for Active optic cables. Their solution is for active extenders only. Absolutely different technology from hybrid fiber.
> 
> 
> *Extender *VS.* RUIPRO *VS.* Traditional Copper HDMI cable*
> 
> HDBaseT Extenders use Cat5/6 cable for transmission. As we know Cat5/6 cable has 8 wires. Their technology needs to process/convert all data by their proprietary technology, then transport the data via 8 wires. That is very difficult to do reliably over long distances on copper wire alone.
> 
> HDMI defines 19+1 wires. So copper HDMI cables have 19+1 copper wires.
> 
> RUIPRO's structure is made of 4 optic wires and 8 copper wires. The 4 optic wires are used for high speed data instead of the traditional HDMI copper 1-12wires. RRUIPRO's 8 copper wires work for the low speed data of the traditional HDMI 13-19 and +1 line. What Ruipro does is just use fiber to transport the high speed data of the HDMI with 0 loss. Any signal, as long as the source and display can deal with it, will work just fine with the hybrid fiber cable.


I agree... I think HDBaseT is completely different.

Below are four ways to try and achieve the same goal.
CELERITY

HDMI 2.0 shown on their website

http://www.celeritytek.com/product-ufo.html

This solution with the newer HDMI 2.1 ends will give 48 GBPS














***********************************************************************************************************************************************************

RUIPRO

HDMI 2.0b shown on their website

https://www.ruipro.com/

This solution with the soon to be released HDMI 2.1 cables will give 48 GBPS


********************************************************************************
MONOPRICE – 4K HDMI over Fiber Optical cable 

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24279

LC to LC Single Mode Simplex Fiber Optical Cable.

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Fi...lex,+2mm,+PVC&qid=1561779248&s=gateway&sr=8-2

This solution would give HDMI 2.0 and 18 GBPS... but with a future version of the Extender I am sure it would be 48 GBPS.

******************************************************************************************************
ATLONA - 4K HDMI over Cat 6A cable 

https://atlona.com/product/at-hdr-ex-70c-kit/

Cat 6A cable.


https://www.primecables.ca/p-359215...solid-bulk-cable-uvdirect-burial-1000ft-black

This solution would give HDMI 2.0 and 18 GBPS... but with a future version of the Extender they MAY get to 48 GBPS.


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ there will definitely be others in the HDMI 2.1 game besides Ruipro. Celerity had lots of issues with their cable designs. Mostly reliability and some failures. I think the best approach will still be with a hybrid fiber cable (from any mfr) that doesn't require an extra connector for power, or any type of external adapter.


----------



## Mathoosala

Are any of these or ones announced at CES available? Would it be possible once they are to add links where to purchase? Thanks.


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## Otto Pylot

Mathoosala said:


> Are any of these or ones announced at CES available? Would it be possible once they are to add links where to purchase? Thanks.


I don't know what was announced at CES. Usually they are just prototypes that aren't in production yet for consumer devices. The biggest issue is that there are still very little consumer devices available that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets (either partially or fully compliant) to test for in real world scenarios. Independent testing is still on-going. The Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cable works just fine now for HDMI 2.0b. Their Ruipro8k cables (which will be HDMI 2.1 compliant) should be released in the next couple of months.


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## Mors78

Hi all,
I am installing a new media room and I am looking for an 25' HDMI cable that can do HDMI 2.1 48gbps for future proofing. I do have a conduit that I could replace it down the road but i would prefer to purchase something now that can support the higher bandwidth if possible. Is there anything available in the market right now that can support 25' and 48gbps?

thanks!


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## MMC57

Mors78 said:


> Hi all,
> I am installing a new media room and I am looking for an 25' HDMI cable that can do HDMI 2.1 48gbps for future proofing. I do have a conduit that I could replace it down the road but i would prefer to purchase something now that can support the higher bandwidth if possible. Is there anything available in the market right now that can support 25' and 48gbps?
> 
> thanks!


Contact Ruipro

https://www.ruipro.com/

Email Thomas............... [email protected]

The will releasing HDMI 2.1 version very soon.

Good luck


----------



## Mors78

MMC57 said:


> Contact Ruipro
> 
> https://www.ruipro.com/
> 
> Email Thomas............... [email protected]
> 
> The will releasing HDMI 2.1 version very soon.
> 
> Good luck


Thanks for the reply. I was hoping there was something already out as I will be installing within the next 2 weeks. thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mors78 said:


> Hi all,
> I am installing a new media room and I am looking for an 25' HDMI cable that can do HDMI 2.1 48gbps for future proofing. I do have a conduit that I could replace it down the road but i would prefer to purchase something now that can support the higher bandwidth if possible. Is there anything available in the market right now that can support 25' and 48gbps?
> 
> thanks!


Yes. Contact Ruipro. The ONLY way to future proof is to install conduit. Video standards will continue to get more demanding and the connection technology (cables) will continue to lag behind. With the use of a conduit, that makes changing cables so much easier and safer. It's also easy to control bend radius which can affect the signal continuity. Just install a conduit with a pull string and you're good to go for whatever comes down the road.

The Ruipro4k cables are currently being offered now and they work just fine for HDMI 2.0. They have a new cable coming out soon, the Ruipro8k, which is being tested now for HDMI 2.1 so you might want to ask them about its availability. Both cables are active cables so you won't see the certification QR label like you see on passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cables. HDMI.org doesn't allow for certifying active cables but the Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC, which is the official arm of the HDMI.org testing and validation program. As far as 48Gbps goes, it's still going to be awhile yet before HDMI 2.1 fully compliant devices are common in the market place, let alone source material that takes advantage of all that HDMI 2.1 has to offer. With the use of a conduit, you could install the 4k cable now and once you are ready for HDMI 2.1, swap it out for the 8k cable once it becomes available and the cost comes down a bit. Keep in mind that neither cable is cheap.


----------



## Mors78

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes. Contact Ruipro. The ONLY way to future proof is to install conduit. Video standards will continue to get more demanding and the connection technology (cables) will continue to lag behind. With the use of a conduit, that makes changing cables so much easier and safer. It's also easy to control bend radius which can affect the signal continuity. Just install a conduit with a pull string and you're good to go for whatever comes down the road.
> 
> The Ruipro4k cables are currently being offered now and they work just fine for HDMI 2.0. They have a new cable coming out soon, the Ruipro8k, which is being tested now for HDMI 2.1 so you might want to ask them about its availability. Both cables are active cables so you won't see the certification QR label like you see on passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cables. HDMI.org doesn't allow for certifying active cables but the Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC, which is the official arm of the HDMI.org testing and validation program. As far as 48Gbps goes, it's still going to be awhile yet before HDMI 2.1 fully compliant devices are common in the market place, let alone source material that takes advantage of all that HDMI 2.1 has to offer. With the use of a conduit, you could install the 4k cable now and once you are ready for HDMI 2.1, swap it out for the 8k cable once it becomes available and the cost comes down a bit. Keep in mind that neither cable is cheap.


Thanks Otto. Like I mentioned, I do have a conduit and I could replace the cable when needed. Was just trying to avoid paying for 2 cables if I could pay for only 1 now, but it doesn't seem like it is an option with my timeframe.

thanks


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## Otto Pylot

Mors78 said:


> Thanks Otto. Like I mentioned, I do have a conduit and I could replace the cable when needed. Was just trying to avoid paying for 2 cables if I could pay for only 1 now, but it doesn't seem like it is an option with my timeframe.
> 
> thanks


Ruipro is close to releasing their Ruipro8k which is being tested and evaluated for 8k, which basically covers HDMI 2.1. It will be expensive. Even when the cable is released, there still aren't any consumer devices available yet, let alone source material, that can take advantage of HDMI 2.1, so you have time. Given your short time frame, and the fact that their is nothing that takes advantage of HDMI 2.1, I'd just install the Ruipro4k cable and see how that goes. As long as you have a pull string installed in your conduit, you can just save your lunch money  and get the 8k cable once it's released and folks start using it.


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## Joe Fernand

Lots to learn and test in 'real world' installations with RuiPro8K and other offerings - power is likely the main obstacle at present.

As Otto suggests if you install a RuiPro4K for now you have a tried and tested solution which is working in thousands of installations with all manner of current Source, Repeater and Display technology.

Joe


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## biglen

Hey guys, is this the RUIPRO Hybrid that's always suggested to use for a long run(10M)?

Fiber HDMI Cable RUIPRO 4K60HZ HDR 50 feet Light Speed HDMI2.0b Cable, Supports 18.2 Gbps, ARC, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4, Ultra Slim and Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 15m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07287LTRZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_J1KCDbTVS01WD

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Joe Fernand

_'Hey guys, is this the RUIPRO Hybrid that's always suggested to use for a long run(10M)?' _- Yes, that is the current spec RuiPro4K cable.

Joe


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## Otto Pylot

biglen said:


> Hey guys, is this the RUIPRO Hybrid that's always suggested to use for a long run(10M)?
> 
> Fiber HDMI Cable RUIPRO 4K60HZ HDR 50 feet Light Speed HDMI2.0b Cable, Supports 18.2 Gbps, ARC, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4, Ultra Slim and Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 15m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07287LTRZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_J1KCDbTVS01WD
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Yes. Just make sure that you have enough space behind your equipment so that the cable can be inserted into the HDMI port without being right up next the wall. They do have an excellent bend radius but you don't want a sharp bend at the connector end.


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## biglen

Thanks guys. The reason I asked, is because I'm having a weird problem with my setup. I have a new Epson 5050ub projector, Denon X3500h, Xfinity 4k box, and an Nvidia Shield. Whenever I play any HDR material on the Shield or Xfinity box, I immediately get sound, but the video doesn't come on until about 10 seconds later. When I connect the Shield directly to the Epson, the sound and video both come on immediately. I made sure everything is turned off on the Denon, as far as video processing, so I was thinking it was my 35' HDMI cable I was using. I tried moving my receiver close to the Epson, and connected a 6' certified cable to the Denon, then another certified cable to the Shield, and it still had the same issue. I'm really getting frustrated. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Joe Fernand

I doubt the cable length is your issue instead you are simply experiencing a fairly typical scenario where devices take a few secs to handshake and get themselves into the correct playback mode - the handover from Source to AVR then AVR to Projector will often have audio playback ahead of video playback (though all in sync once up and running).

Other than swapping out kit or one or other manufacturer creating a firmware update there is little you can do to alter the start up sequence - if you have a second cable run to the projector you could try inserting a powered 4K UHD with HDR capable HDMI Splitter between the Shield and the AVR and Projector.

Joe


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## biglen

Joe Fernand said:


> I doubt the cable length is your issue instead you are simply experiencing a fairly typical scenario where devices take a few secs to handshake and get themselves into the correct playback mode - the handover from Source to AVR then AVR to Projector will often have audio playback ahead of video playback (though all in sync once up and running).
> 
> 
> 
> Other than swapping out kit or one or other manufacturer creating a firmware update there is little you can do to alter the start up sequence - if you have a second cable run to the projector you could try inserting a powered 4K UHD with HDR capable HDMI Splitter between the Shield and the AVR and Projector.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe


Thanks for the info Joe. I'm starting to think it's a Handshake issue with the projector, because when I had my Sony TV in the same setup, I didn't have the issue. That's why I'm so hell bent on trying to correct the issue. I'm used to it working like it did with the Sony. It doesn't sound like I can fix it though. I wish my Epson had ARC, then I could connect the Shield directly to the projector, and still get sound from my Denon. Why would it only happen with HDR content, and not regular 4k or 1080p?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

biglen said:


> Thanks for the info Joe. I'm starting to think it's a Handshake issue with the projector, because when I had my Sony TV in the same setup, I didn't have the issue. That's why I'm so hell bent on trying to correct the issue. I'm used to it working like it did with the Sony. It doesn't sound like I can fix it though. I wish my Epson had ARC, then I could connect the Shield directly to the projector, and still get sound from my Denon. Why would it only happen with HDR content, and not regular 4k or 1080p?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Possibly because there is more information to initially process with HDR. I noticed that when I got my C8 that it took a little longer (about 5-6 seconds) when I first turned the system on to give me audio/video. After that, it was fine. I noticed this with using Premium High Speed Cables and Ruipro hybrid fiber cables. Even though the handshake "seemed" to be a bit faster with the hybrid fiber cables (probably my imagination). With the 1080 LCD tv downstairs, there's maybe a 2 second delay.


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## biglen

Otto Pylot said:


> Possibly because there is more information to initially process with HDR. I noticed that when I got my C8 that it took a little longer (about 5-6 seconds) when I first turned the system on to give me audio/video. After that, it was fine. I noticed this with using Premium High Speed Cables and Ruipro hybrid fiber cables. Even though the handshake "seemed" to be a bit faster with the hybrid fiber cables (probably my imagination). With the 1080 LCD tv downstairs, there's maybe a 2 second delay.


Yeah, with me, unfortunately it's never fine. There's always a delay with HDR, even after everything has been on for awhile. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

biglen said:


> Yeah, with me, unfortunately it's never fine. There's always a delay with HDR, even after everything has been on for awhile.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Hmmm. I only see it at initial startup. After that, switching sources (ATV4k to Comcast cable and vice versa) the delay is only a couple of seconds, and this in on all brand new devices purchased late last year when I was turning the bonus room into our "theater room". Nothing is instant On, especially when switching sources, but I hardly even notice it at all anymore. Doesn't spoil the experience for me at all. I figure I've got 3-5 seconds to give for my system time to talk to itself and be ready for me. Wish there was a better answer for you.


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## biglen

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm. I only see it at initial startup. After that, switching sources (ATV4k to Comcast cable and vice versa) the delay is only a couple of seconds, and this in on all brand new devices purchased late last year when I was turning the bonus room into our "theater room". Nothing is instant On, especially when switching sources, but I hardly even notice it at all anymore. Doesn't spoil the experience for me at all. I figure I've got 3-5 seconds to give for my system time to talk to itself and be ready for me. Wish there was a better answer for you.


I don't have a problem when switching sources, it's when I play HDR content that I get audio, but no video for 10 seconds. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

biglen said:


> I don't have a problem when switching sources, it's when I play HDR content that I get audio, but no video for 10 seconds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


Don't know what to tell you then. I don't see any delay when I play HDR content (streaming or disk) once my system is connected. Are all of your HDMI connected devices on the same HDMI hardware versions?


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## biglen

Otto Pylot said:


> Don't know what to tell you then. I don't see any delay when I play HDR content (streaming or disk) once my system is connected. Are all of your HDMI connected devices on the same HDMI hardware versions?


Not sure. How do I tell if they are?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

biglen said:


> Not sure. How do I tell if they are?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


That can be difficult depending on when you purchased your equipment. Some specs will list if it is HDMI 1.4 or 2.0, a lot of times not. You will just need to research.

If it is a CEC issue, there is very little you can do.


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## Joe Fernand

Have you tried both/all Inputs on the Projector (assuming they are all HDR capable) - you may find one takes longer than the other to handshake when the Source is HDR.

Is it just the Projector connect to the AVR Output? If there is a second display connected to the AVR try toggling its Output to Off in the AVR settings.

Joe


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## biglen

Joe Fernand said:


> Have you tried both/all Inputs on the Projector (assuming they are all HDR capable) - you may find one takes longer than the other to handshake when the Source is HDR.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it just the Projector connect to the AVR Output? If there is a second display connected to the AVR try toggling its Output to Off in the AVR settings.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe


I tried both HDMI inputs on the projector, and the projector is the only thing connected to the AVR output. Something is happening with the AVR. When I go directly to the projector, it works fine. I've even tried with the power off of the AVR because it has PassThrough, and it still gets a delay with the video coming on with HDR. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## roxiedog13

biglen said:


> I tried both HDMI inputs on the projector, and the projector is the only thing connected to the AVR output. Something is happening with the AVR. When I go directly to the projector, it works fine. I've even tried with the power off of the AVR because it has PassThrough, and it still gets a delay with the video coming on with HDR.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk



TGIF people!!


I read most of the last four pages , I'm still not seeing availability for 8K HDMI 2.1 fiber cables although a 10M has been tested and passed. Can this be purchased at this point or still a work in progress? Also, what to do with the AV rack HDMI cables? Can we 

still use the 4K HDMI 2.0 cables for short runs or will these have to be replaced as well? I'm going to ensure I can replace all cables in the new theater and can probably get by with my current cables for the short term, that said, I'd rather install the future proof cables now and be done with it.


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## smhunter1983

Otto Pylot said:


> No such thing as HDMI 2.1 cables. When released, they should, or probably will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables. I'm not sure what TrendSetterX means that the new cables will fail for all compressed data. The Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables, from the data I've seen, pass all of the video formats , compressed and uncompressed, currently under the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications. What you can get is more dependent on the version of the HDMI chipsets at the source/sink end than the actual data path (cable) itself.
> 
> No cable will be 100% guaranteed to work in any given setup, so there's always going to be a bit of trial and error. That includes the Premium High Speed HDMI cables (passive) that are certified by HDMI.org.
> 
> The best you can do is run your cabling in a conduit (1.5" - 2.0"), with a pull string, so as to make swapping out cables or adding more as needed easier and safer. That truly is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling, unless you have easy access to your cabling and they are not in-wall/ceiling. Cabling standards are always going to lag behind video standards so as the video standards change, so will the cables, regardless of the smoke and mirrors and claims that cable mfrs make in their product descriptions and marketing.
> 
> At this point in time, I think the best you can do is install hybrid fibers cables (Ruipro) inside a conduit and hope for the best. They are not cheap and once their Ruipro8k cables are released, you can either upgrade to them or just wait till they come out and purchase then. If you need cables now, go for their current Ruipro4k cables.


https://www.imundoaudio.com/producto/ruipro-8k-hdmi-hibrido-15-metros/


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## Otto Pylot

smhunter1983 said:


> https://www.imundoaudio.com/producto/ruipro-8k-hdmi-hibrido-15-metros/


I saw that. I don't know if they are available in the U.S. yet or not (maybe Amazon?). I do believe that they get released in Europe first.


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## smhunter1983

Otto Pylot said:


> I saw that. I don't know if they are available in the U.S. yet or not (maybe Amazon?). I do believe that they get released in Europe first.


It says right there, Available. Add To Cart. Order em up!


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## smhunter1983

smhunter1983 said:


> It says right there, Available. Add To Cart. Order em up!


Just needs to some payment info and you are good to go


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## Otto Pylot

smhunter1983 said:


> It says right there, Available. Add To Cart. Order em up!


The prices are in Euros so maybe that linked you to the European site? I do know that they have been released to a few distributors on a limited basis in Europe and probably sometime later on this month or next month they will be available everywhere.


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## smhunter1983

Otto Pylot said:


> The prices are in Euros so maybe that linked you to the European site? I do know that they have been released to a few distributors on a limited basis in Europe and probably sometime later on this month or next month they will be available everywhere.


It doesn't matter, pay pal will do the conversion accordingly when you pay.


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## Otto Pylot

smhunter1983 said:


> It doesn't matter, pay pal will do the conversion accordingly when you pay.


That's true. Go for it. They should work as well as the ruipro4k cables do now. Only time will tell once there are HDMI 2.1 devices in the wild with more option sets than just eARC/VRR (which are available on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets).


----------



## Agent6er

Here is my attempt to contribute:

I have been waiting for some 48Gpbs cable to future proof, I have had some issues with my certified premium cables just randomly stop working, hoping they new cables will last longer.

I know this thread concentrates on the longer cables, but since it has been stated any working cable applies I've figured I would share some things I have found, as I think the 12-15ft/4-5 meter cables are going to be a big deal since that is what will be needed for a lot of people, like me, who have the TV on the wall and the cables behind the wall, going down the the other electronics below. 

I realize this size is going to be tricky because HDMI says copper can only go to 9 feet,but I'm hoping it can/will happen, because $150 12 ft fiber cables are going to be ridiculous.

While none have any official status obviously, I have found a few that are being advertised as "2.1"/48Gbps Ultra High Speed. 

I know what you are about to read doesn't actually mean the cables will work, but as of now I figure this is the best way to weed some the false marketing & BS.

What I have been doing is looking for the official adoptors on the HDMI site that have 2.1 indicator near the name, on Chinese sites like Alibaba since that is where they will be made anyway it will probably be sold there first. I have found a handful of cables. Unfortunately I haven't found any of the cables(yet) on AliExpress from adoptors. For those that don't know the difference, the former is the wholesale site, the latter is like a mix of Amazon and eBay. AliExpress usually sells stuff individually, and the main site usually sells bulk orders, although not always.

I do not yet know if these are any good, and wondering if anyone has seen these yet or has any idea about their quality.

I have found one active cable for a great price(if it works), that goes up to 300 meters, and is available in quantities of one.

I can't post links yet so here is how to get to the products.

On Alibaba, search: 2019 new version 2.1 Active Optical support 8K 200m 300m HDMI cable for multi media 

It's by/from
Zhongshan Ksin Electronics Co

I have found one by a company on the HDMI list, but they don't have a 2.1 symbol, but it seems they are actually following the HDMI marketing guidelines(well, except it's copper and up to 16ft), so that caught my eye, looks as if they are "trying" to do it right whatever what is worth to you, so Listing in case the adoptors list is a little out of date.

Go to the SIIG website and look for the Ultra High Speed Cable

And finally, there is one on Amazon by a 2.1 adoptor, that goes up to 3 meters(too short for me, but maybe will help someone else) by Accell. (No I didn't write that review, but I got the search idea from it)

Accell Ultra High Speed HDMI cable on Amazon.

I'm am thinking of trying a few, but don't have anyway to testing these myself.

I just stumbled across the above, look for cables first and then looking into the manufacturers.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> Here is my attempt to contribute:
> 
> I have been waiting for some 48Gpbs cable to future proof, I have had some issues with my certified premium cables just randomly stop working, hoping they new cables will last longer.


The ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to install your cables in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cables. Connection technology will always lag behind video technology so upgrading your cables is a distinct possibility.

If the cable mfr follows the HDMI.org rules for labeling their cables they can not use "HDMI 2.1" in their marketing unless they specify which HDMI 2.1 hardware options are available. They also can not label the cables themselves with the HDMI hardware version number.

The problem with HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) at present is that there are no consumer devices available yet that can utilize some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets so there's no way that the cables can be tested in a real world setting. Cable mfrs can make all kinds of claims it seems and be cagey in how they "verified" their cables. Ultra High Speed HDMI (48Gbps) will be the "official" labeling of the cables once HDMI.org gets around to trademarking that label like they did for Premium High Speed HDMI cables (18Gbps) which indicates that the cable has been tested and certified by HDMI.org to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications. Unfortunately there are lots of cable mfrs already using that label which does nothing more than confuse the public in hoping of making sales.

The HDMI 2.1 hardware specification (48bps) states that the maximum cable length for passive cables is 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). Any longer than that then an active cable, preferably a hybrid fiber cable will be needed. 

The basic rule of thumb is this:
For 4k HDR runs under about 25' (the maximum certifiable length for passive cables), a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) should work.
For 4kHDR runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k is one that has received very good reviews from AVS users) is recommended. It is an active cable, and as such can not be certified by HDMI.org as of yet. In fact, active cables in general, fiber or copper only, are not allowed to be certified at this point in time.

Keep in mind that the cable is just the data pipe. It can not modify or alter the signal it is carrying. 

I've used Premium High Speed HDMI cables at less than 10' lengths and had zero issues with 4k HDR (DV and HDR10). I've also tested, and am still currently using, the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at the same length with zero issues as well. Hybrid fiber cables, not just fiber cables, are indeed expensive but my guess is that is what is going to be needed for reliable 4k/8k HDR in the future. In fact, Ruipro is releasing in the upcoming weeks their 8k (48Gbps) hybrid fiber cable. Those cables are tested by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which is the HDMI.org approved testing program. But, being as the cables are active, they can not get the same certification or QR label that the copper-only cables can. We mention Ruipro a lot because those are the cables that get the most positive reviews by actual users on AVS.

Bottom line, if your cables are in-wall, then they should be installed in a conduit to facilitate swapping them out easily and safely. Just use what works best now and don't worry about HDMI 2.1 until you have devices that have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets. Then upgrade your cabling to cables that have been proven (by actual user reports) to be able to carry the HDMI 2.1 signal without issues. Even if you have cables now that can pass the 48Gbps bandwidth, the current chipsets are HDMI 2.0 only which is standardized for 18Gbps.


----------



## Agent6er

I was specifically speaking about cables, for the purpose of going in the wall between the TV and media center/stand. So 6 feet roughly. The vast majority of cables, for this purpose, won't need to be longer than 15 feet.

On a side note, I am experienced with home wiring, car My low post count isn't from inexperience, I just usually don't post about AV related stuff online. Recently HDMI has just become a big, prolonged mess. 

At least from pictures I have seen, it looks like Elecom had a 4meter prototype for testing, as shown in a Anandtech article, and the connectors weren't the elongated type the hybrid ones seem to have. I wonder if this was some official HDMI Forum event? That would be odd for them to have it there!


Search for the article Anandtech
HDMI Forum: Certification Program for Ultra High Speed HDMI 48G Incoming


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I was specifically speaking about cables, for the purpose of going in the wall between the TV and media center/stand. So 6 feet roughly. The vast majority of cables, for this purpose, won't need to be longer than 15 feet.
> 
> On a side note, I am experienced with home wiring, car My low post count isn't from inexperience, I just usually don't post about AV related stuff online. Recently HDMI has just become a big, prolonged mess.
> 
> At least from pictures I have seen, it looks like Elecom had a 4meter prototype for testing, as shown in a Anandtech article, and the connectors weren't the elongated type the hybrid ones seem to have. I wonder if this was some official HDMI Forum event? That would be odd for them to have it there!
> 
> 
> Search for the article Anandtech
> HDMI Forum: Certification Program for Ultra High Speed HDMI 48G Incoming


Prototype UHS HDMI cables were introduced at this year's CES. Prototypes can be very different from what eventually is shipped and proven to work. The only cables that I have seen testing results and specs on are the Ruirpo4k/8k hybrid fiber cables which will be released soon (Ruipro8k). That doesn't mean that there aren't other mfrs out there but I haven't seen any independent testing data on them and the Ruipro cables are here now. Ruipro uses Simplay Labs which is an ATC for their testing and validating. Being as Simplay Labs is an ATC, they have to use testing protocols and equipment requirements as specified by HDMI.org (the very folks who got us in this HDMI mess in the first place). As I mentioned, the biggest issue and roadblock for testing/verifying is the fact that there aren't any HDMI 2.1 devices that fully support all of the HDMI 2.1 options. So testing in a laboratory situation can be very different once the cables are in the hands of consumers and used in their systems with many different types of connected devices and configurations. To really know if the "UHS" cable you purchase will work as expected is to connect it to HDMI 2.1 hardware validated devices.

The bottom line is that there are going to be, and already are, cable mfrs making claims and promises for their cables that support some, or all, of the HDMI 2.1 specifications. If your cable access is easy to get to, then that shouldn't be a problem because you can easily and safely swap out your cables for one that will meet your expectations. Passive cables that meet all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, at this point in time, will still be limited to 9' as specified in HDMI 2.1. Longer than that will probably require an active cable (copper-only, fiber, or hybrid fiber), of which there aren't any HDMI approved certification programs available. The Ruipro cables are tested and validated by an ATC but they still won't be able to get the "certification" label, at least not yet.

As we get closer to "Black Friday" the cable marketeers will shift into high gear and make all kinds of claims so all one can do is use your best judgement and hope you are correct, but until one has HDMI 2.1 validated devices there's no way to know for sure.


----------



## Agent6er

I know this doesn't mean anything until I can find it again. But I saw an Alibaba listing that had a copy of a HDMI 2.1 test result from one if the Chinese ATC's. I was going to share it here, to see if the test result looked legitimate, Problem is I forgot to save the link(I thought I did), and I looked at so many listings I can't find it again. I'm pretty sure I know one of the brands it was so I'm digging through the site for it. So some are posting it openly, at least in China.


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## Agent6er

I found an example, but it's a three meter, but this is the "Certificate" style I saw, I can't post a link directly yet so I made it obvious what needs to be fixed.

alibaba dot com /product/62275678076/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2.html?s=p&__detailProductImg=//s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/H8b6aa0706014405ab4fe00d931f2fa1et/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2-1.jpg_140x140xz.jpg&spm=a2706.wap_new_search.1998817009.2.6e94284fClyBEL


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## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I found an example, but it's a three meter, but this is the "Certificate" style I saw, I can't post a link directly yet so I made it obvious what needs to be fixed.
> 
> alibaba dot com /product/62275678076/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2.html?s=p&__detailProductImg=//s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/H8b6aa0706014405ab4fe00d931f2fa1et/2019-Newest-Ultra-High-Speed-2-1.jpg_140x140xz.jpg&spm=a2706.wap_new_search.1998817009.2.6e94284fClyBEL


There are no "certified" cables for the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications, at least ones that are recognized by HDMI.org. If it is a Chinese only site it is probably bogus. Your link doesn't work, at least from here.

I would not fixate on an "HDMI 2.1" cable. Just get what works well for you now, because source material, and devices, are still quite a ways off.


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## Agent6er

It's is not a certified cable, it is the CTS"passed test certificate" from Granite River Labs, an official HDMI ATC. Saying it passed the spec test. The vast majority of cables are made in China, just rebranded. This is one of the actual manufacterers. 


I found this works, On google, search 

alibaba 62275678076

It brings up a page in a language I don't know, but that is the listing, the final picture shows the "paper".

The minimum order for that one is 500 pieces, at 2.42 a piece.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> It's is not a certified cable, it is the CTS"passed test certificate" from Granite River Labs, an official HDMI ATC. Saying it passed the spec test. The vast majority of cables are made in China, just rebranded. This is one of the actual manufacterers.
> 
> 
> I found this works, On google, search
> 
> alibaba 62275678076
> 
> It brings up a page in a language I don't know, but that is the listing, the final picture shows the "paper".
> 
> The minimum order for that one is 500 pieces, at 2.42 a piece.


The cable is a passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable (HDMI 2.0), and it is 3m (9') in length, which is the maximum certifiable length for passive (copper-only) cables. The fact that the "certificate" lists Product Model Name as HDMI 2.1 cable does not follow the cable description requirements as required by HDMI.org (it doesn't list which HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications it has been tested for). The "documentation" is confusing. One document lists it as an "HDMI 2.1 cable", which is wrong for the reason I gave above, and the other documents are for cables that have passed the HDMI 2.0 specifications (Premium High Speed). Do they bulk test the cables or is each cable tested for compliance (which I doubt). The cables are being sold in bulk to distributors so they can test them (hopefully) to see if they will indeed meet and pass the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications.

It's your money so you do what you want to do but there are all kinds of red flags with this product.

CTS, Compliance Testing Specification, is used to certify products as "HDMI 2.1 compliant", not the HDMI specifications. HDMI 2.1 is not a feature, it is the version of the document that is used to design HDMI devices. In other words, if a product passes HDMI CTS, it can then be used to develop and market the HDMI specifications, as long as those specifications tested for are listed if HDMI 2.1 is used in the product description. Just because a cable passes CTS doesn't automatically mean that it will meet the HDMI 2.1 specifications.


----------



## jong1

I would just like to reiterate what Otto has been saying.

Based on cold, hard experience with previous iterations of cable, NOTHING, not even tested compliance in a lab is going to guarantee all works as planned with real HDMI 2.1 devices. I would expect there to be an iteration or two before things become reasonably stable and predictable. I could be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it 

Personally I would put an 18 Gb/s cable in conduit now and replace when you have your own real-life 2.1 devices to test with. Paying a premium for a cable that may well not work in the future seems pointless. But, if you do decide to jump in with a (very early) "2.1" cable just make sure it's easily replaceable!


----------



## wamatt

Interesting thread. Do anyone know if *active* 48gbps cables introduce any additonal latency compared with passive?


----------



## Agent6er

jong1 said:


> I would just like to reiterate what Otto has been saying.
> 
> Based on cold, hard experience with previous iterations of cable, NOTHING, not even tested compliance in a lab is going to guarantee all works as planned with real HDMI 2.1 devices. I would expect there to be an iteration or two before things become reasonably stable and predictable. I could be pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it
> 
> Personally I would put an 18 Gb/s cable in conduit now and replace when you have your own real-life 2.1 devices to test with. Paying a premium for a cable that may well not work in the future seems pointless. But, if you do decide to jump in with a (very early) "2.1" cable just make sure it's easily replaceable!


I'm not arguing if that what it came across as, I was just wanting some clarification, as there is a lot of bad information out there. I have personally had multiple "premium Certified" High speed cables fail on me, I was hoping this new spec with the "bigger pipeline" would be more consistently reliable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wamatt said:


> Interesting thread. Do anyone know if *active* 48gbps cables introduce any additonal latency compared with passive?


In theory, a hybrid fiber cable (which is an active cable) should not produce any additional latency depending on length but until they are tested properly and in the hands of consumers with devices that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets (48Gbps) there’s no guarantees or any way of determining that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I'm not arguing if that what it came across as, I was just wanting some clarification, as there is a lot of bad information out there. I have personally had multiple "premium Certified" High speed cables fail on me, I was hoping this new spec with the "bigger pipeline" would be more consistently reliable.


The current HDMI specifications are "capped" at 18Gbps. It doesn't matter if the cable can reliably handle 18Gbps, 21Gbps, or whatever. The HDMI chipsets will determine the correct bandwidth up to 18Gbps for the source material it detects. The cable is just a data pipe.


----------



## Agent6er

PHP:




That isn't my issue. 

I want more throughout capability in the _cable_ to get around potential manufacturing defects in the _cable_, since I don't need the full 48. 

An example, speaking of pipelines.

[Higher letter corresponds to higher volume]

Say it was a pipe for liquid. You need to move B amount of liquid. You buy a B size, but it it actually only moving A amount, due to manufacturing defects. So moving up to a C size would easily move B amount, and you would be prepared to move (at least closer to) C amount.

I just sick of having to replace certified premium cables that are giving me issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> That isn't my issue.
> 
> I want more throughout capability in the _cable_ to get around potential manufacturing defects in the _cable_, since I don't need the full 48.
> 
> An example, speaking of pipelines.
> 
> [Higher letter corresponds to higher volume]
> 
> Say it was a pipe for liquid. You need to move B amount of liquid. You buy a B size, but it it actually only moving A amount, due to manufacturing defects. So moving up to a C size would easily move B amount, and you would be prepared to move (at least closer to) C amount.
> 
> I just sick of having to replace certified premium cables that are giving me issues.


You will be limited to what the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end can send as far as error correction, timing, etc. A cable that is certified for 18Gbps can probably handle a bit more than that, but 18Gbps is what HDMI 2.0 is standardized at so that's all HDMI is going to allow to stay within specifications for error-free data transmission. There is no way to verify a mfrs claim if they say their cable can do 21Gbps, 30Gbps, or 48Gbps. It doesn't matter at this point in time until HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are out in the wild.

If your cable run is under 20' or 25' max, then any Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label for authenticity) should work. If you've tried various legitimate Premium High Speed cables and still get poor performance, then I'd look elsewhere in your chain (compatible HDMI versions in source/sink, cable crimping, stress on the HDMI input, the use of extenders, adapters, wall plates, daisy chaining cables, etc).


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## Agent6er

Well this is interesting, just stumbled across a new fiber cable at Wal Mart


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## Otto Pylot

^^^^ all marketing. Monster, like AudioQuest have always had questionable marketing practices. A fiber only cable is physically different from a hybrid fiber cable (like Ruipro's).

How did Monster establish the 48Gbps bandwidth? UHD and 8k "implies" that the cable meets HDMI 2.1 hardware options. But there is no certification available yet for HDMI 2.1 or consumer devices capable of 48Gbps, let alone source material to test it against. As I have said, just because the cable supposedly can transmit 48Gbps, that "extra" bandwidth available means nothing because all the current HDMI chipsets are looking for is 18Gbps in order to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.

Your argument is very familiar to one a poster new to AVS was trying to push a couple of months ago. He felt that a cable advertised with 21Gbps capability would work better than Premium High Speed HDMI cable (18Gbps) because of the "extra" bandwidth available. A fiber cable usually works better than a copper only cable (distance limited) and a hybrid fiber cable works better than fiber only, and is probably the way to go for longevity at this point in time.

The ONLY way to future proof cabling if your runs are longer than 25' , or are not easily accessible is to run your cabling inside a conduit, with a pull string.


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## G-Rex

What’s interesting is Monster has a 75’ version of this cable, which is also not of hybrid design and is also claimed to pass 48 gbps. Just doesn’t sound feasible. Once the Ruipro hybrid 2.1 optical is successfully tested I may go in that direction.


----------



## Agent6er

Otto Pylot said:


> ^^^^ all marketing. Monster, like AudioQuest have always had questionable marketing practices. A fiber only cable is physically different from a hybrid fiber cable (like Ruipro's).
> 
> How did Monster establish the 48Gbps bandwidth? UHD and 8k "implies" that the cable meets HDMI 2.1 hardware options. But there is no certification available yet for HDMI 2.1 or consumer devices capable of 48Gbps, let alone source material to test it against. As I have said, just because the cable supposedly can transmit 48Gbps, that "extra" bandwidth available means nothing because all the current HDMI chipsets are looking for is 18Gbps in order to meet HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications.
> 
> Your argument is very familiar to one a poster new to AVS was trying to push a couple of months ago. He felt that a cable advertised with 21Gbps capability would work better than Premium High Speed HDMI cable (18Gbps) because of the "extra" bandwidth available. A fiber cable usually works better than a copper only cable (distance limited) and a hybrid fiber cable works better than fiber only, and is probably the way to go for longevity at this point in time.
> 
> The ONLY way to future proof cabling if your runs are longer than 25' , or are not easily accessible is to run your cabling inside a conduit, with a pull string.


I said I had a certified premium cable fail, and you told me to get a certified premium cable. Sorry if my quest for a better cable offended you.


If in 5 years I have a full 8K set up and it can't do it at 8K60, they will give me a new cable that can.


Includes the Monster lifetime guarantee:
It ever fails to meet stated claims it will be replaced or upgraded to same or better specifications for free.

Monster is a participant in the current certified premium program. They have a good reputation for honoring their lifetime promises. They have relationships with multiple big name retail locations, from Wal-Mart to Home Depot, and some audio stores will even replace cables on site if you bought it there.

It will be ok, it's not your money, my chance to take.


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## G-Rex

I am not bashing Monster, however, how did they manage to produce a 75’ Optical 2.1 cable for $65? Their warranties are excellent, so it’s all a bit strange if it doesn’t do what they claim. Lots of returns may occur in the future if it does not pass 48 gbps. Time will tell.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Monster-UHD-Platinum-Fiber-Optic-HDMI-Cable-75ft/572783646


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## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> What’s interesting is Monster has a 75’ version of this cable, which is also not of hybrid design and is also claimed to pass 48 gbps. Just doesn’t sound feasible. Once the Ruipro hybrid 2.1 optical is successfully tested I may go in that direction.


Yep. Again Monster/AudioQuest are the kings of marketing with very carefully worded product descriptions which, imo, just walks the line of false advertising without stepping over the edge.

The Ruipro8k cable should be available in the U.S. soon. They are being tested by Simplay Labs, which is an ATC, and the results that I have seen are very good for most of the HDMI 2.1 options. They are active cables so they will not be able to receive the ATC certification like the passive, copper only cables can (Premium High Speed HDMI). The cables are also being evaluated independently by ARROW-AV. However, as I have been saying, the biggest issue with properly evaluating/testing the cables is the lack of consumer devices with all or some of the HDMI 2.1 option sets.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I said I had a certified premium cable fail, and you told me to get a certified premium cable. Sorry if my quest for a better cable offended you.
> 
> 
> If in 5 years I have a full 8K set up and it can't do it at 8K60, they will give me a new cable that can.
> 
> 
> Includes the Monster lifetime guarantee:
> It ever fails to meet stated claims it will be replaced or upgraded to same or better specifications for free.
> 
> Monster is a participant in the current certified premium program. They have a good reputation for honoring their lifetime promises. They have relationships with multiple big name retail locations, from Wal-Mart to Home Depot, and some audio stores will even replace cables on site if you bought it there.
> 
> It will be ok, it's not your money, my chance to take.


Monster may be a participating ATC but there are no indications on how they are validating their 48Gbps cable. Any cable can fail. A certified cable is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work in all situations and all setups. It does give the consumer confidence though that the cable was tested and certified to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware options by a certification program designed and monitored by HDMI.org, the very folks who got us in the HDMI mess in the first place. I'm not offended at all. You can do what you want.

A money back guarantee/replacement does not mean a properly certified and validated cable.


----------



## Agent6er

G-Rex said:


> I am not bashing Monster, however, how did they manage to produce a 75â€™️ Optical 2.1 cable for $65? Their warranties are excellent, so itâ€™️s all a bit strange if it doesnâ€™️t do what they claim. Lots of returns may occur in the future if it does not pass 48 gbps. Time will tell.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Monster-UHD-Platinum-Fiber-Optic-HDMI-Cable-75ft/572783646



Who knows, but the Chinese manufacturers are wholesaling active 18Gbps cables a hundred feet long for pennies a foot(if you browse the wholesale listings, you will see a lot of cables that look familiar, just missing a logo)

This says a 100 micron Multimode can transmit 100Gb 100 meters. 10 micron thick single mode fiber cable, one strand, can transmit FIVE KILOMETERS regardless of bandwidth.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.fiber-optic-solutions.com/fast-fiber-optic-cable-speed.html/amp

It might be they had a fiber cable that could already support the bandwidth, and it just needed a new chipset to work right, (just a guess) Fiber can handle huge amounts of data, if you look at what the ISPs are using and what it is capable off, you wouldn't need much to carry a signal that far. 

So take you 18Gbps 200 foot cable, cut off 125 feet, add a new chipset you think will handle the 48Gbps standard, and send it to market knowing it may be years before anyone knows any better.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> So take you 18Gbps 200 foot cable, cut off 125 feet, add a new chipset you think will handle the 48Gbps standard, and send it to market knowing it may be years before anyone knows any better.


Exactly! And that's what a lot of the cable mfrs are doing now to get a jump on Black Friday (Week) and the hype that they, and the tv mfrs, are generating for HDMI 2.1. I and others mention Ruipro a lot because they have a very good reputation here on AVS by actual users of their hybrid fiber 4k cables. I've seen their test data for HDMI 2.0 (Ruipro4k) and some of their test data for HDMI 2.1 (Ruipro8k). All I can say is that they use an ATC for both cable types who in turn uses the latest testing equipment and testing protocols approved, and in some cases designed by HDMI.org. In fact if one is an ATC, they will, or should be, using the same. It is expensive and time consuming, especially with the lack of validated consumer devices (the ultimate test) and source material. The very design of hybrid fiber over just fiber alone makes it superior in terms of reliability of data transfer. Just because one mfr is an ATC doesn't mean that they are going to use the same equipment and protocols for the newer UHS HDMI cables.

Cable choices would be a little easier if HDMI.org allowed for certification of active cables because then the consumer would at least have another tool to use in their decision making.

It's hard to say how other mfrs/resellers are "validating" their claims. They could be taking bulk cable that has met the CTS for HDMI 2.1, which does not validate the HDMI specifcations, putting a meter on one end and if the cable can pass 48Gbps, assume that it can also pass the HDMI 2.1 option sets without issues. The consumer purchases the cable now to "future proof" and when HDMI 2.1 devices are widely available, along with source material 2 years from now, and the cable doesn't perform, the cable is returned for a refund or replacement. The cable company has already made their money off of the purchase so replacing the cable is no big financial loss. However, the result of that would be consumer frustration, time lost in troubleshooting, etc especially if access to the cable is difficult or installed in-wall without a conduit.

If it were me, I'd just stick with a cable for now (copper or hybrid fiber) that works reliably for the current HDMI 2.0 protocols and not even worry about HDMI 2.1 until it's time. Plan ahead and make sure you have easy access to your cabling (conduit if in-wall) so upgrading the cable will not be an big issue. Chances are one is going to have to upgrade all of their devices anyway to the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets that can offer all of the HDMI 2.1 options. It's still, and will probably always be somewhat of a trial and error in choosing the correct cable. There are other factors involved in a successful cable run than just the data pipe (cable).


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> RUIPRO 8K are being tested by Simplay Labs, which is an ATC, and the results that I have seen are very good for most of the HDMI 2.1 options.


So you’re saying the results aren’t good for some of the 2.1 formats... can you elaborate?


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> So you’re saying the results aren’t good for some of the 2.1 formats... can you elaborate?


I never said that the results were not good for some of the 2.1 options. What I said is that some of the results I've seen are very good for most of the HDMI 2.1 options. What I can elaborate on is that there are, or were, issues with eARC at 30m. I haven't seen all of the final data results yet so until I do, and can comment, I'll leave it at that. The Ruipro8k cables are available in limited amounts in Europe now and Ruipro plans on releasing them in the U.S. in the upcoming weeks. I do know the 8k cables can easily handle 48Gbps as tested by an ATC so the bandwidth capability is there for those options that require it.


----------



## Agent6er

G-Rex said:


> Whatâ€™️s interesting is Monster has a 75â€™️ version of this cable, which is also not of hybrid design and is also claimed to pass 48 gbps. Just doesnâ€™️t sound feasible. Once the Ruipro hybrid 2.1 optical is successfully tested I may go in that direction.


When you say not a hybrid, do you mean contains no fiber optic? It does, from their description, and on the box. IMO, and IME, this is way to thin to be all copper and work, and it does. My Xbox X TV "details" page says all formats are working with my Sony 940E(4K60, Dolby Vision, etc, etc)

This thin and very flexible, much more flexible than the same thickness all copper speaker wire I have.

I'm not willing to cut it open unless some wants to pay for it 😄

If you want I can take a picture of it next to a 6 foot Xbox HS, 10 foot Amazon HS, a 15 foot EchoGear HS, and 10 Foot Monoprice Certified Premium HS to show thickness.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> When you say not a hybrid, do you mean contains no fiber optic? It does, from their description, and on the box. IMO, and IME, this is way to thin to be all copper and work, and it does. My Xbox X TV "details" page says all formats are working with my Sony 940E(4K60, Dolby Vision, etc, etc)
> 
> This thin and very flexible, much more flexible than the same thickness all copper speaker wire I have.
> 
> I'm not willing to cut it open unless some wants to pay for it 😄
> 
> If you want I can take a picture of it next to a 6 foot Xbox HS, 10 foot Amazon HS, a 15 foot EchoGear HS, and 10 Foot Monoprice Certified Premium HS to show thickness.


A fiber cable just consists of a fiber core to transmit data, usually glass fiber but sometimes a cheaper polymer core is used. They can indeed be very thin. The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable is made of 4 glass optic wires and 8 copper wires. The 4 optic wires are for high speed data instead of the traditional HDMI copper 1-12wires, and the 8 copper wires are for the low speed data of the traditional HDMI 13-19 and +1 line. The copper wires handle ARC, HDCP, and EDID functions. Hence the term "hybrid". The connectors are a slim design so that they fit snugly in either a horizontal or vertical HDMI input orientation. The actual cable is very thin and flexible with an excellent bend radius. The cables are active so they are directional for installation.

Active copper cables can use a much thinner wire gauge because of the nature of active termination. If the cable is sold as a fiber cable, then it has a fiber core and is probably active as well. There are probably other hybrid fiber cable mfrs out there but I don't personally know of any other than Ruipro.


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## Agent6er

There are a dozens if not hundreds. It's easy to find, just go to the HDMI official adopter list and they have website links for almost all of them. Seems like every 3rd or 4th make a fiber hybrid cable. Sadly, about 90% of them only sale in bulk. But there are the few that will sell just one. I was going to order a few until I found the the US company with an established lifetime performance promise selling one just a bit more.


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## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> There are a dozens if not hundreds. It's easy to find, just go to the HDMI official adopter list and they have website links for almost all of them. Seems like every 3rd or 4th make a fiber hybrid cable. Sadly, about 90% of them only sale in bulk. But there are the few that will sell just one. I was going to order a few until I found the the US company with an established lifetime performance promise selling one just a bit more.


We've had this discussion of bulk cable selling before. I would not purchase a cable from them if it were me. Even "reputable" cable resellers will purchase these bulk cables, repackage them them and sell them however they can. Lifetime performance promise can mean just about anything. Caveat emptor.


----------



## jch2

Here are couple of new 8k HDMI 2.1 48gbps 50' hybrid fiber cables on Amazon now for the same or less money than the 4k HDMI 2.0 18gpbs 50' cables. Any chance we can get some testing for these?


Bifale 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07S91JQRP/
$151.99


CABLEDECONN 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VI3N3NY/
$98.99


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> Here are couple of new 8k HDMI 2.1 48gbps 50' hybrid fiber cables on Amazon now for the same or less money than the 4k HDMI 2.0 18gpbs 50' cables. Any chance we can get some testing for these?
> 
> 
> Bifale 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07S91JQRP/
> $151.99
> 
> 
> CABLEDECONN 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VI3N3NY/
> $98.99


Those are active fiber cables but whether they are hybrid fiber is difficult to find in the product description. Maybe I missed it. I wonder how they can make those claims without there being any consumer devices yet that have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that support all of the HDMI 2.1 hardware specifications, or any mention on their testing methodologies and equipment used. I'm sure they work fine with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets (eARC and VRR are possible with HDMI 2.0) but the other claims are questionable without knowing how they were tested and/or validated.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are couple of new 8k HDMI 2.1 48gbps 50' hybrid fiber cables on Amazon now for the same or less money than the 4k HDMI 2.0 18gpbs 50' cables. Any chance we can get some testing for these?
> 
> 
> Bifale 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07S91JQRP/
> $151.99
> 
> 
> CABLEDECONN 8k (hybrid fiber with eARC)
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00VI3N3NY/
> $98.99
> 
> 
> 
> Those are active fiber cables but whether they are hybrid fiber is difficult to find in the product description. Maybe I missed it. I wonder how they can make those claims ... are questionable without knowing how they were tested and/or validated.
Click to expand...

I just assumed they had to be hybrid fiber since they are directional cables and they support ARC/eARC, which requires a return path. CEC and true (not emulated) EDID also require a return path. So, unless they have had a major breakthrough and are doing bi-directional fiber (and thus fit both a transmitter and receiver chip, or a combo chip, in each end) it has to have a copper return path. Of course, if it is an optical return path and bi-directional (maybe asymmetrical) fiber transmission, we'd absolutely want to know that too, that would be quite a breakthrough for a $100 cable.

As far as validating claims, that's presumably why ARROW-AV started this whole thread in the first place. ARROW-AV asked us to post new long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables we find so he could evaluate them. Hopefully he's figured out his test equipment situation and can start validating long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables soon and produce and post a report like what is in the sister thread (about 4k HDMI 2.0 cables).

ARROW-AV are you out there? Any news on your ability to start testing long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables?


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> I just assumed they had to be hybrid fiber since they are directional cables and they support ARC/eARC, which requires a return path. CEC and true (not emulated) EDID also require a return path. So, unless they have had a major breakthrough and are doing bi-directional fiber (and thus fit both a transmitter and receiver chip, or a combo chip, in each end) it has to have a copper return path. Of course, if it is an optical return path and bi-directional (maybe asymmetrical) fiber transmission, we'd absolutely want to know that too, that would be quite a breakthrough for a $100 cable.
> 
> As far as validating claims, that's presumably why ARROW-AV started this whole thread in the first place. ARROW-AV asked us to post new long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables we find so he could evaluate them. Hopefully he's figured out his test equipment situation and can start validating long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables soon and produce and post a report like what is in the sister thread (about 4k HDMI 2.0 cables).
> 
> ARROW-AV are you out there? Any news on your ability to start testing long 8k HDMI 2.1 cables?


Directionality is due to the fact that the cables are active, so the signal path goes from source to sink (where the cable draws its power from). Active cables were originally designed to extend the cable length past the magical 25' distance by introducing error correction, timing, etc in the chipsets located at the sink end. Because of this, HDMI.org does not allow, at this point in time, for certification of active cables, copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber. Passive cables can also have ARC capability. ARC/eARC is a function of the HDMI chipsets not necessarily the cable.

I would agree that if the cable mfr claims ARC capability on their fiber cable that it does in fact have a copper wiring return path. Copper only HDMI cables have a 19+1 copper wiring scheme. Hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro for example) have 4 glass fiber cores that handle the high speed data requirements (traditionally carried by the copper wires 1-12) and 8 copper wires for low speed data (ARC, HDCP, EDID) traditionally carried by the copper wires 13-19 +1. There are variations on that scheme that cable mfrs can do to control costs so it would be beneficial to the consumer if the cable design was mentioned in the product description. Some cable mfrs do and some don't. It also depends in a large part on the chipset designs in the sink end. Some are robust and reliable and some aren't. It all depends on where the cable mfr wants to cut costs.


----------



## Agent6er

I'm just going to share this quote I found, supposedly right from HDMI


https://www.techhive.com/article/3252040/the-hdmi-21-low-down-dont-dump-your-legacy-cables.html



> When I talked to the HDMI licensing folks, they expressed confidence that good quality passive legacy cables, especially those labeled HDMI Premium should work given a length of two meters or less. Active legacy cables that boost signal strength should be capable of greater distances.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I'm just going to share this quote I found, supposedly right from HDMI
> 
> 
> https://www.techhive.com/article/3252040/the-hdmi-21-low-down-dont-dump-your-legacy-cables.html


The HDMI 2.1 specifications state that the maximum length for passive HDMI cables is 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). The only question about using Premium High Speed HDMI cables is whether they would be capable of reliably handling the required 48Gbps bandwidth necessary for the higher video standards. Once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild it would certainly be worth it to see if your existing Premium High Speed HDMI cables would work at 10' or less.


----------



## GoZags13

Is there such a thing as an HDMI-ethernet-HDMI that will support 48gbs?

I currently have a failed Ruipro 40' cable. I don't really want to buy another for it to fail in a year as well. I suspect it's a issue due to heat in the cabinet, which I've reduced but not before going through multiple 3' HDMI cords from my ATV4k and 4k player to receiver. The cable will push 4:2:0 but not 4:2:2 without massive snow. 

My other option is to get a 4k player that i can force into 4:2:0, but that would be disappointing. All of this makes me hate that I didn't figure out a way to shorten the run. Too late now...grrr


----------



## Otto Pylot

GoZags13 said:


> Is there such a thing as an HDMI-ethernet-HDMI that will support 48gbs?


I replied to your PM. The simple answer to the above is no. And there are no proven cables to be able to transmit at 48Gbps, regardless of what the cable mfrs says. Even if the cable can handle 48Gbps, there is absolutely no way of determining at this point in time if the cable can reliably transmit the HDMI 2.1 features that require 48Gbps without access to the cables test data. Don't worry about HDMI 2.1. Just get a cable that works for what you have now. "Future proofing" your cabling is a fantasy unless you install your cable in a conduit because that's the ONLY way to future proof.

HDBT is a possibility if you use solid core CAT-6 cabling (non-CCA and not pre-terminated CAT-6 ethernet cable) and can find HDBT units that have the latest chipsets. HDBT is compressed whereas hybrid fiber is not.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> I'm just going to share this quote I found, supposedly right from HDMI
> 
> 
> https://www.techhive.com/article/3252040/the-hdmi-21-low-down-dont-dump-your-legacy-cables.html


The HDMI 2.1 specifications state that the maximum cable length for passive cables is 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). Premium High Speed HDMI cables MAY work for all of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets but that is not specifically mentioned, nor has it been tested for. Whether HDMI.org will allow for HDMI 2.1 certification of passive cables has yet to be determined. Passive copper only cables have their limitations, even at short lengths.


----------



## jch2

GoZags13 said:


> Is there such a thing as an HDMI-ethernet-HDMI that will support 48gbs?


I just researched this and talked with many in the industry. Not yet, but CAT 8 will support 40gbps so will support HDMI 2.1 high bandwidth modes (highest with some compression). It is more likely to see point to point fiber doing this first before we see CAT 8 based solutions.

You don't need an HDMI 2.1 HDBaseT solution yet. So just get an HDMI 2.0 one. Warning, they employ compression to compress modes higher than 10.2gbos down to that. The current most fully featured HDMI 2.0 solutions I can find that are good for a projector use case are the Monopricee 30446 and J-Tech JTECH-EX-HDBT219. They are identical and both run very hot. Best to attach a 60mm x 60mm heatsink with thermal tape to the device at each end to prolong their life. There's an Amazon review of the Monoprice with the same suggestion.



GoZags13 said:


> I currently have a failed Ruipro 40' cable. I don't really want to buy another for it to fail in a year as well.


Contact RUIPRO support at [email protected] and they'll probably reply the same day. They were super-fast with my inquiry. They'll probably replace the cable for free.



GoZags13 said:


> I suspect it's a issue due to heat in the cabinet, which I've reduced but not before going through multiple 3' HDMI cords from my ATV4k and 4k player to receiver. The cable will push 4:2:0 but not 4:2:2 without massive snow.


I'm pushing 4k24 12-bit 4:4:4 and 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 through both a RUIPRO and MavisLink 50' active hybrid fiber cables and also a new Blue Jeans Cable Series-3A active 24g copper cable. The RUIPRO was $160. The MavisLink was only $60. The BJC was $75. The BJC is a beast (very thick)! However, I'm having different issues with active cables in my setup that I'm working on (see my post in the HDMI 2.0 long cable thread).

So, you could try a different cable. Maybe a different cable will be more heat-resistant. However, you may first want to work on your cabinet heat problem with some fans and vents. Heat dramatically increases the failure rate of electronics.

-J.C.


----------



## mhmercer

Question about Source and Sink. IIRC, Source is the signal's origin and Sink is at the endpoint. Prior to ARC, the AVR was the Source and the TV was the Sink. But, in the case of ARC/eARC, is the TV not the Source and the AVR the Sink? If so, should an Active cable not be directed toward the AVR from the TV?


----------



## Otto Pylot

mhmercer said:


> Question about Source and Sink. IIRC, Source is the signal's origin and Sink is at the endpoint. Prior to ARC, the AVR was the Source and the TV was the Sink. But, in the case of ARC/eARC, is the TV not the Source and the AVR the Sink? If so, should an Active cable not be directed toward the AVR from the TV?


Source to sink is still the source device to the display device. So, for ARC/eARC it's still the same. The avr would be the source and the tv would be the sink, provided you are using the correct HDMI input/output for ARC, the cable in question supports ARC (most cables who have been tested for HDMI 2.0 hardware will support ARC), and you have configured your system correctly for ARC. Cable length can also play a factor in ARC.


----------



## mhmercer

Otto Pylot said:


> Source to sink is still the source device to the display device. So, for ARC/eARC it's still the same. The avr would be the source and the tv would be the sink, provided you are using the correct HDMI input/output for ARC, the cable in question supports ARC (most cables who have been tested for HDMI 2.0 hardware will support ARC), and you have configured your system correctly for ARC. Cable length can also play a factor in ARC.


Thanks. What prompted my question is that I had used active cables (in the direction that you described) but could not get to work ATMOS via eARC. When I switched to passive cables of the same length and brand, all worked as expected.


----------



## SpHeRe31459

mhmercer said:


> Thanks. What prompted my question is that I had used active cables (in the direction that you described) but could not get to work ATMOS via eARC. When I switched to passive cables of the same length and brand, all worked as expected.


I don't think there are active cables that support eARC are there? eARC requires the use of the HDMI Ethernet channel, which I don't believe any active chipsets support.

ex: https://www.spectra7.com/ht8181


----------



## mhmercer

SpHeRe31459 said:


> I don't think there are active cables that support eARC are there? eARC requires the use of the HDMI Ethernet channel, which I don't believe any active chipsets support.
> 
> ex: https://www.spectra7.com/ht8181


I used a Monoprice Ultra Slim Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] 18Gbps HDR 34AWG YUV 4:4:4, 15ft, Black cable. Monoprice stated that, that cable passes eARC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SpHeRe31459 said:


> I don't think there are active cables that support eARC are there? eARC requires the use of the HDMI Ethernet channel, which I don't believe any active chipsets support.
> 
> ex: https://www.spectra7.com/ht8181


Spectra7 is the company that took over, or merged, with Redmere, who was one of the originators of the chipsets that made active cables possible. The latest Spectra7 chipsets, the HT8181 are very robust and work well for 1080 and, in some cases, 4k HDR. ARC and eARC are problematic, especially over longer lengths, but they are possible with active cables. eARC in fact does require the un-used ethernet wire in copper-based cables but does have issues and requires both HDMI chipsets, source and sink, to be able to support that. eARC is possible with hybrid fiber cables, which are active, up to about 15m due to the nature of the cable design.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mhmercer said:


> I used a Monoprice Ultra Slim Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] 18Gbps HDR 34AWG YUV 4:4:4, 15ft, Black cable. Monoprice stated that, that cable passes eARC.


ARC, and especially eARC are both problematic but can work with either passive or active cables, but it depends a lot on your cable length, HDMI chipsets in source/sink, and other variables (like the requirement of CEC enabled in some systems). Atmos, at least lossy Atmos, adds a whole 'nuther layer of issues.


----------



## davidag02

ARROW-AV said:


> This thread is for discussing all HDMI v2.1 cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1, not just the longer length cables. However, as far as which cables I will be including within my initial evaluation and testing exercise, for the reasons that I have already explained, this will be focusing on the longer length cables. If for whatever reason there is a subset of shorter length cables that fall outside of the official certification and testing, and as such also require testing then I will test these as well.


Any recommendation for a shorter length cable that meets the 2.1 spec? Looking for one in the 8-10 foot range. Thank you!


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## lcrava

This one should work for you and I hope one of the guys with proper equipment can eventually get it tested, since 10ft is the shortest of the bunch:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38629


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## Otto Pylot

@davidag02 and @lcrava

There are no cables yet that are guaranteed to meet the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, period. Just because a cable has been tested for 48Gbps doesn't mean that it can successfully transmit the HDMI 2.1 features that require that bandwidth without any errors, regardless of the cable mfr claims. The biggest issue in testing and possibly validating cables for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets is that there are no consumer devices yet that have validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets installed, so it's very difficult to determine if the cable will perform as expected in a real world setting and not just in a sterile testing environment. Reputable cable mfrs are continually testing and tweaking their cables/chipsets so that when validated consumer devices are available, they are ready for the final test. It's coming, but not quite yet. Besides, source content that takes advantage of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets doesn't really exist yet so there's still time.

HDMI.org states in their HDMI 2.1 documentation that the maximum cable length for passive cables will be 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). However, my guess is that to achieve full 48Gbps on a copper-only passive cable the wire gauge will be thicker, which introduces its own set of issues. Active cables will probably be the way to go with hybrid fiber cables being the most reliable, especially over longer lengths.

If you have easy access to your cabling, then I would just purchase a cable that meets the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications now, and then once HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, upgrade your cabling to one that has been shown, in the hands of consumers, to work as expected for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. Ruipro will be coming out with their 8k cable (Ruipro8k) hopefully by December, which is being actively tested by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. However, being as it is an active cable, HDMI.org does not allow for "certification" yet like they do for the Premium High Speed cables (18Gbps) so the cables will probably be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. Unfortunately I don't believe that HDMI.org has registered that name like they did for the Premium marketing, so cable mfrs (at least most of them) are using that term in their marketing and product description without offering the consumer any test data (laboratory testing) to back up their claims. If you are concerned with eARC and VRR, which are part of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, they are possible on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr built-in the ability for a firmware upgrade. Some tv mfrs (LG) are claiming that their HDMI 2.1 tv's will be able to upgraded to full HDMI 2.1 at a future date so that's something to consider.

Install your cabling in a conduit if you don't have easy access (in-wall installation for example) because that will be the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.

The cable is just the data pipe. How well one can utilize the HDMI 2.1 feature sets will be determined by the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink ends.


----------



## lcrava

Otto Pylot said:


> @davidag02 and @lcrava
> 
> There are no cables yet that are guaranteed to meet the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, period. Just because a cable has been tested for 48Gbps doesn't mean that it can successfully transmit the HDMI 2.1 features that require that bandwidth without any errors, regardless of the cable mfr claims. The biggest issue in testing and possibly validating cables for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets is that there are no consumer devices yet that have validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets installed, so it's very difficult to determine if the cable will perform as expected in a real world setting and not just in a sterile testing environment. Reputable cable mfrs are continually testing and tweaking their cables/chipsets so that when validated consumer devices are available, they are ready for the final test. It's coming, but not quite yet. Besides, source content that takes advantage of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets doesn't really exist yet so there's still time.
> 
> HDMI.org states in their HDMI 2.1 documentation that the maximum cable length for passive cables will be 1m - 3m (3' - 9'). However, my guess is that to achieve full 48Gbps on a copper-only passive cable the wire gauge will be thicker, which introduces its own set of issues. Active cables will probably be the way to go with hybrid fiber cables being the most reliable, especially over longer lengths.
> 
> If you have easy access to your cabling, then I would just purchase a cable that meets the HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications now, and then once HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, upgrade your cabling to one that has been shown, in the hands of consumers, to work as expected for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. Ruipro will be coming out with their 8k cable (Ruipro8k) hopefully by December, which is being actively tested by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 feature sets. However, being as it is an active cable, HDMI.org does not allow for "certification" yet like they do for the Premium High Speed cables (18Gbps) so the cables will probably be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. Unfortunately I don't believe that HDMI.org has registered that name like they did for the Premium marketing, so cable mfrs (at least most of them) are using that term in their marketing and product description without offering the consumer any test data (laboratory testing) to back up their claims. If you are concerned with eARC and VRR, which are part of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets, they are possible on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr built-in the ability for a firmware upgrade. Some tv mfrs (LG) are claiming that their HDMI 2.1 tv's will be able to upgraded to full HDMI 2.1 at a future date so that's something to consider.
> 
> Install your cabling in a conduit if you don't have easy access (in-wall installation for example) because that will be the ONLY way to future proof your cabling.
> 
> The cable is just the data pipe. How well one can utilize the HDMI 2.1 feature sets will be determined by the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink ends.


Although I can appreciate to some extent your lengthy explanation as well as the pages and pages of discussion on the topic (which to be frank has not much to do with the thread title or purpose, since NOTHING has been tested or presented), which we can all see present in this very thread, the bottom line is there are those of us who have equipment with HDMI 2.1 features today in need of a cable to connect it (LG C9>Ambeo Soundbar (eARC), PC w/ 2080Ti (w/ g-Sync enabled) so all the pages and pages of discussion and explanations are borderline useless.

Some of us need a 2.1 cable now and after reading this whole thread with its tons of impractical, strictly theoretical discussions (even though there are tons of HDMI 2.1 cables being sold, somehow even a single one has yet to be tested) and all this back and forth and an answer like yours is of absolutely no help whatsoever.

I do not wish to be disrespectful to you, albeit there is absolutely nothing new on your post that has not already been covered repeatedly in the last 6 pages of this thread and the one thing missing from your answer is an actual HDMI 2.1 cable recommendation. Ruipro is hardly the only reputable company out there, but somehow seems to be all you are capable of talking about. The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.

Ruipro 8K is vaporware at this point and if we needed a 2.0 cable, we would’ve asked for one instead and most likely be directed to the appropriate thread.


----------



## lcrava

And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).


From rtings review: _The LG C9 also supports HDMI 2.1 on all four ports, although there is currently little advantage to this, as there are no HDMI 2.1 sources available. _Full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is advertised but no mention of full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth advertised, yet. ALLM was tested but not VRR.

I have a 65 C8 which is no doubt the best tv I've ever owned, so I'm an LG fan. In fact, the downstairs theater system is built around an older LG LCD. The HDMI 2.1 ports on the C9 will be firmware upgraded to meet the HDMI 2.1 specs as they become available on other devices but that is going to take time. Backwards compatibility only means that the in-common HDMI feature sets will be supported. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a C9 now because full HDMI 2.1 will eventually be available, source as well as devices, but not widely until probably late 2020 or early 2021.


----------



## TrendSetterX

lcrava said:


> And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports.


No, they don't. You have gotten caught up in the marketing hype of HDMI 2.1 and are missing the facts. Your 2019 LG OLED undeniably and unequivocally does *NOT *have full HDMI 2.1 support. It has support for *SOME* of the 2.1 capabilities and based on everything that I've been able to find, the most it will be able to handle are the uncompressed formats up to 48gbps (meaning it won't support the higher 2.1 resolutions that require DSC). What it will support "by firmware update" is a complete crap shoot and likely won't ever include the higher resolution compressed formats. So please stop with your drama and calling out the folks here who have a bit more knowledge than you on the subject.


----------



## lcrava

Otto Pylot said:


> lcrava said:
> 
> 
> 
> And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports. Firmware updates simply tweak how it functions with other hardware that even though have HDMI 2.1 features such as eARC, ALLM, VRR and even HFR (in case of the 2080Ti) are all still stuck with HDMI 2.0 ports, being where most compatibility problems stem from (no matter how much the HDMI standard claims to be backwards compatible, that is hardly the case).
> 
> 
> 
> From rtings review: _The LG C9 also supports HDMI 2.1 on all four ports, although there is currently little advantage to this, as there are no HDMI 2.1 sources available. _Full HDMI 2.0 bandwidth is advertised but no mention of full HDMI 2.1 bandwidth advertised, yet. ALLM was tested but not VRR.
> 
> I have a 65 C8 which is no doubt the best tv I've ever owned, so I'm an LG fan. In fact, the downstairs theater system is built around an older LG LCD. The HDMI 2.1 ports on the C9 will be firmware upgraded to meet the HDMI 2.1 specs as they become available on other devices but that is going to take time. Backwards compatibility only means that the in-common HDMI feature sets will be supported. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a C9 now because full HDMI 2.1 will eventually be available, source as well as devices, but not widely until probably late 2020 or early 2021.
Click to expand...

Again, please stop disseminating wrong information.

This looks a lot like an exerpt from rtings.com review of the C9 back in the first semester of 2019. 

VRR can now be fully tested as long as tou have a PC with a G-Sync capable video card connected to it, and yet, even a RTX Titan only has HDMI 2.0b ports.

Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.


----------



## lcrava

TrendSetterX said:


> lcrava said:
> 
> 
> 
> And for the love of god, stop giving people wrong information. LG OLEDS have FULL HARDWARE HDMI 2.1 ports.
> 
> 
> 
> No, they don't. You have gotten caught up in the marketing hype of HDMI 2.1 and are missing the facts. Your 2019 LG OLED undeniably and unequivocally does *NOT *have full HDMI 2.1 support. It has support for *SOME* of the 2.1 capabilities and based on everything that I've been able to find, the most it will be able to handle are the uncompressed formats up to 48gbps (meaning it won't support the higher 2.1 resolutions that require DSC). What it will support "by firmware update" is a complete crap shoot and likely won't ever include the higher resolution compressed formats. So please stop with your drama and calling out the folks here who have a bit more knowledge than you on the subject.
Click to expand...

How about you stay on topic, be useful and give out some recommendations of good HDMI 2.1 cables to the people that ask for it?

While you’re at it, in your infinite wisdom, please share with us a DSC enabled display that any of us can buy today so you can at least somehow substantiate your claim.

I have no doubt theres a lot of people here that know more than I do, but clearly you are not one of them.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> Some of us need a 2.1 cable now and after reading this whole thread with its tons of impractical, strictly theoretical discussions (even though there are tons of HDMI 2.1 cables being sold, somehow even a single one has yet to be tested) and all this back and forth and an answer like yours is of absolutely no help whatsoever.
> 
> I do not wish to be disrespectful to you, albeit there is absolutely nothing new on your post that has not already been covered repeatedly in the last 6 pages of this thread and the one thing missing from your answer is an actual HDMI 2.1 cable recommendation. Ruipro is hardly the only reputable company out there, but somehow seems to be all you are capable of talking about. The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.
> 
> Ruipro 8K is vaporware at this point and if we needed a 2.0 cable, we would’ve asked for one instead and most likely be directed to the appropriate thread.


Cables and cable connectors are currently being tested. CTS testing for the connectors have been going on for quite sometime now. Connectors and cables are being tested by ATC's (Authorized Testing Centers) following equipment and protocols as designed and specified by HDMI.org. HDMI in general has been a pain in the a$$ since it was first forced upon us and HDMI.org has not made that any easier with the certification processes (passive can be certified but not active). No cable mfr can guarantee 100% of the time that their cable will work for any given setup, including certified cables. But certification, if it is standardized, at least gives the consumer something to start with.

We mention Ruipro a lot because that is the one cable mfr that has received the most positive reviews by actual users here on AVS for their hybrid fiber Ruipro4k cable and long distances. I have seen the testing data and use their 4k cables now in my systems and they perform as well as the Premium High Speed HDMI cables that are certified by HDMI.org. There is no reason at this point in time to think that their 8k cables won't perform as expected once devices and source material is widely available. Ruipro is actively testing their cables with Simplay Labs, which is an ATC, as well as independent testing by ARROW-AV. They are not rushing their cables to market, like others are, until they are satisfied that CTS and performance testing meet their standards. eARC and VRR can be accomplished with HDMI 2.0 so to use those two criteria as "proof" that a cable meets HDMI 2.1 is a bit misleading.

Bottom line, we can't recommend a specific cable that meets HDMI 2.1 criteria because there aren't any. And the ones that do indicate that, it's almost impossible to find out how they validated their claims. If you find a cable that works for you that's all that matters but it's going to be a lot of trial and error.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.


Nope. The firmware upgrades will be to enable the feature sets as soon as they are fully tested and ready to go. An HDMI input that is capable of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets connected to an HDMI 2.0 source will only be able to use the in-common feature sets of HDMI 2.0. The "unused" feature sets, for want of a better term, will be ignored. For any HDMI 2.1 device, (including cables) to fully support all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer, those feature sets must be listed if "HDMI 2.1" is used in the description. This is in accordance with HDMI Marketing and Product Description Guidelines. HDMI 2.1 can be used in the marketing if eARC, ALLM, VRR, etc are mentioned as well but that is not to be interpreted as meeting ALL of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets.

HDMI 2.1 is just the title of a specification document. What has to be listed is which feature sets in that document have been validated to work with a specific device or cable.


----------



## lcrava

I did find a cable that works, someone asked for a recommendation and I gave it. 

From a company that also has good reviews, good value and has mostly tried so far to attain every HDMI certification that this atrocious standard had put forth so far.

Like I said, the ONLY display in the market today with FULL BANDWITH HARDWARE LEVEL HDMI 2.1 ports are LGs displays and there are no FULL BANDWITH sources to connect to it. Want proof? Find out the range of VRR on HDMI 2.0 and the range of VRR of HDMI 2.1 and maybe you’ll start to understand.

I build custom computers for a living for all kinds of purposes and situations and mostly deal with computer monitors, that are far more advanced that any consumer TV out there now or in the near future.

To start theorizing about the future functionality and all this other random stuff when someone asks for a recommendation of something that works today is completely useless and extremely unhelpful.

Almost as useless as talking about DSC (which was initially created by VESA for DisplayPort, which is far superior than HDMI in every aspect) and then talking down to people as if you have more knowledge than them. DSC in HDMI is an intention, a hope and a dream at this point, nothing more.


----------



## lcrava

Otto Pylot said:


> lcrava said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lastly, the HDMI 2.1 ports on the 2019 OLEDS are FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS and the firmware updates are not enabling anything, they are simply fixing backward compatibility issues because there is no other equipment with FULL HARDWARE 2.1 PORTS that can be connected to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. The firmware upgrades will be to enable the feature sets as soon as they are fully tested and ready to go. An HDMI input that is capable of the full HDMI 2.1 feature sets connected to an HDMI 2.0 source will only be able to use the in-common feature sets of HDMI 2.0. The "unused" feature sets, for want of a better term, will be ignored. For any HDMI 2.1 device, (including cables) to fully support all of what HDMI 2.1 has to offer, those feature sets must be listed if "HDMI 2.1" is used in the description. This is in accordance with HDMI Marketing and Product Description Guidelines. HDMI 2.1 can be used in the marketing if eARC, ALLM, VRR, etc are mentioned as well but that is not to be interpreted as meeting ALL of the HDMI 2.1 feature sets.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 is just the title of a specification document. What has to be listed is which feature sets in that document have been validated to work with a specific device or cable.
Click to expand...

Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.

No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so. 

That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.

HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can “enable” it.


----------



## lcrava

Just in case you still don’t get it, there is not a single firmware in the universe that can “enable” VRR with a 30 to 120 range in a HDMI 2.0 port. 

I hope you can finally start to understand, realize that HDMI has been playing catch-up to DisplayPort for years and please, stop giving people the wrong information.

2019 LG OLEDS have FULL BANDWITH HARDWARE LEVEL HDMI 2.1 ports. PERIOD. 

If they didn’t, VRR would not work at that range (DisplayPort had to be updated to be able to support this kind of range especially at higher resolutions).


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.
> 
> No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so.
> 
> That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.
> 
> HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can “enable” it.


Please keep it civil. There is no reason or purpose in being rude.

Yes, the hardware needs to be designed and capable of utilizing the protocols as specified in HDMI 2.1. There is, or was, a very good discussion on the LG Forums about what their "HDMI 2.1 chipsets" actually did or were capable of. The discussion centered around proprietary HDMI 2.1 chipsets which was interesting to say the least.

HDMI 2.1 is supposed to support VESA 1.2a compression which is fine, but only up to about 17.82Gbps. However, uncompressed video will not be a problem with hybrid fiber cables due to the physical design, and supporting chipsets in the cables.


----------



## lcrava

Otto Pylot said:


> lcrava said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seems that you have a hardware limitation on yourself.
> 
> No firmware can ever surpass what the hardware is capable of, in other words, if the port is not HDMI 2.1 and capable of the features, no firmware will make it so.
> 
> That is why they need to release new chipsets capable of said features on the hardware level.
> 
> HDMI 2.0 is only capable of VRR between 42Hz and 59Hz. HDMI 2.1 30Hz to 120Hz. If the hardware is not capable, no firmware can â€œenableâ€ it.
> 
> 
> 
> Please keep it civil. There is no reason or purpose in being rude.
> 
> Yes, the hardware needs to be designed and capable of utilizing the protocols as specified in HDMI 2.1. There is, or was, a very good discussion on the LG Forums about what their "HDMI 2.1 chipsets" actually did or were capable of. The discussion centered around proprietary HDMI 2.1 chipsets which was interesting to say the least.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 is supposed to support VESA 1.2a compression which is fine, but only up to about 17.82Gbps. However, uncompressed video will not be a problem with hybrid fiber cables due to the physical design, and supporting chipsets in the cables.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I’ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so. 

Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.

This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.

Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldn’t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> With all due respect, I’ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so.
> 
> Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.
> 
> This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.
> 
> Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldn’t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.


The Ruipro4k cables have been tested for ARC/eARC and work well up to about 15m. Longer than that eARC will probably have issues, as will most any current cables. There are quite a few cables on the market now that are successfully being used in consumer setups for eARC. Cables are currently being tested for reliable 48Gbps bandwidth, if that's the bandwidth you are referring to, but again it gets back to source/devices.

If you want recommendations for cables that are compatible with HDMI 2.1, Belkin advertised one and of course Monster has one (probably AudioQuest as well). The question is how were those claims validated.


----------



## lcrava

Otto Pylot said:


> lcrava said:
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, Iâ€™️ve been on topic and out of the three people that posted on this thread since the recommendation was requested, the only one to do remotely so.
> 
> Not only there has not been any good cable recommendations that work with products out TODAY, not a single cable has been tested for at least bandwidth and eARC, which is the main moving parts of a cable to be considered to function properly and an amazing starting place.
> 
> This is the very purpose of this thread. Not theorize about future possibilities of the HDMI standard or bash the only available products for sale today with actual HDMI 2.1 ports while telling others how much more you guys know than them.
> 
> Stay on topic, post useful information and you shouldnâ€™️t have an issue as long as there are no members like you two in that very same thread.
> 
> 
> 
> The Ruipro4k cables have been tested for ARC/eARC and work well up to about 15m. Longer than that eARC will probably have issues, as will most any current cables. Cables are currently being tested for reliable 48Gbps bandwidth, if that's the bandwidth you are referring to, but again it gets back to source/devices.
> 
> If you want recommendations for cables that are compatible with HDMI 2.1, Belkin advertised one and of course Monster has one (probably AudioQuest as well). The question is how were those claims validated.
Click to expand...

Ruipro is not for sale. Monster’s fiber cable does not do eARC (most is 7.2 audio), Belkin is a complete crapshoot on wether or not you’ll get a working cable and Audioquest is pure overpriced garbage.

You can either buy suspicious chinese crap on Ali, eBay or Amazon or buy a quality cable from Monoprice at the moment.

I know because I went looking for options after reading this entire thread this morning and getting absolutely zero help from it.

Now thanks to you and this other Trendsetter dude I even regret having helped the person that asked for the recommendation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lcrava said:


> Ruipro is not for sale. Monster’s fiber cable does not do eARC (most is 7.2 audio), Belkin is a complete crapshoot on wether or not you’ll get a working cable and Audioquest is pure overpriced garbage.
> 
> You can either buy suspicious chinese crap on Ali, eBay or Amazon or buy a quality cable from Monoprice at the moment.
> 
> I know because I went looking for options after reading this entire thread this morning and getting absolutely zero help from it.
> 
> Now thanks to you and this other Trendsetter dude I even regret having helped the person that asked for the recommendation.


The Ruipro4k cable is indeed on sale. If you are referring to their upcoming 8k cable, it is not, at least domestically. They were being offered on a limited basis in Europe but I don't know if that is still viable or not.

Cable mfrs are clever in their marketing, especially when it comes to fiber optic cables. It can be difficult to determine if their fiber cables are fiber only or hybrid fiber. Hybrid fiber cables can indeed to ARC, and eARC on some systems, because the glass fiber cores are surrounded by solid copper wiring, hence the term hybrid.

Please be civil.


----------



## G-Rex

HDMI.org has not released compliance test specifications (CTS) for 2.1 so manufacturers are reluctant to release cables that are untested to meet DPL’s rigorous testing requirements. Nor does HDMI.org have certification facilities ready. 

Do we know when to expect the CTS to be released and certification facilities to be updated for 2.1 testing/certification? As soon as this occurs the floodgates should open re the availability of 2.1 cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> HDMI.org has not released compliance test specifications (CTS) for 2.1 so manufacturers are reluctant to release cables that are untested to meet DPL’s rigorous testing requirements. Nor does HDMI.org have certification facilities ready.
> 
> Do we know when to expect the CTS to be released and certification facilities to be updated for 2.1 testing/certification? As soon as this occurs the floodgates should open re the availability of 2.1 cables.


HDMI.org released CTS for cat 3 connectors in Nov. 2018. In Aug. 2018 they released CTS for repeaters, sources, and sinks which also include eARC as defined in HDMI 2.1. 

There are ATC's who are currently testing for HDMI 2.1 with the latest protocols and recommended equipment. However, HDMI.org is silent on whether they will allow certification (with some sort of QR label like Premium) for active cables. And, as has been stated before, the lack of consumer devices with the latest HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them makes it difficult to validate compatibility. This whole process has not gone as smoothly as anticipated, which is not unusual for HDMI, because cable mfrs are already "validating" either in-house (with standardized protocols and methods is unknown) or very basic validation (if my cable can pass 48Gbps then it must be capable of passing the features that require 48Gbps without errors) and are already marketing and selling them. It's a mess!

I really dislike HDMI but it's what we are stuck with


----------



## G-Rex

Some of the well known manufacturers are are in a holding pattern for long run active hdmi 2.1 hdmi cables (be it chip amplified or hybrid fiber optical). They will not release until CTS data is released. This is frustrating. I need to update as my WW cable is capped at 10.2 gbps, but will not until it’s 2.1 for future proof sake, even though I have conduit access.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Some of the well known manufacturers are are in a holding pattern for long run active hdmi 2.1 hdmi cables (be it chip amplified or hybrid fiber optical). They will not release until CTS data is released. This is frustrating. I need to update as my WW cable is capped at 10.2 gbps, but will not until it’s 2.1 for future proof sake, even though I have conduit access.


I feel your frustration but there is just too much uncertainty and misleading (imo) product descriptions in the marketplace right now. I'm not sure what a WW cable is but a cable certified for HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) should work for now for 4k HDR. I don't remember how long your run is (or if you even mentioned it) but there are some good cables now for HDMI 2.0 that are longer than 25'. Otherwise, you may have to wait a long time until there are proven cables that can adequately handle HDMI 2.1 (full feature set). My feeling is that a hybrid fiber solution is what is going to work best for HDMI 2.1 but those cables will be active, and unless HDMI.org allows for certification by an ATC for active cables, it may be a long wait until consumers start posting their results with "non-ATC certified" cables that are working with HDMI 2.1 devices. At least you have a conduit which is some consolation  I think the fog will clear somewhat once HDMI 2.1 certified chip sets are in consumer devices.


----------



## MiSP

lcrava said:


> there are those of us who have equipment with HDMI 2.1 features today in need of a cable to connect it (LG C9>Ambeo Soundbar (eARC), PC w/ 2080Ti (w/ g-Sync enabled)
> 
> ...
> 
> The Monoprice cable works flawlessly with the C9, correctly doing VRR and eARC. I can’t do other tests since I do not have the necessary equipment.


 I am in a similar situation. Getting a C9 tomorrow, will sooner or later upgrade my graphics card (currently GTX 980 Ti), and I want to game at 4K 120Hz with VRR (and HDR, if that matters).

In the interest of furthering the actual topic of this thread (and to help me), I would be immensely grateful if you would be able to confirm whether the monoprice cable works reliably at [email protected], with VRR (and HDR if it matters and you're able to test it).

(Regarding eARC, I don't think I need that - I will be connecting my PC to my TV with this cable, and have a shorter HDMI cable between my TV and receiver).


----------



## Joe Fernand

MiSP

eARC - will be relevant if the TV and AVR are both eARC enabled and you wish to send HD/Immersive audio from your Source device to the AVR via the TV.

Joe

PS Otto - WW - lets guess WireWorld.


----------



## Otto Pylot

+1. Ah yes, WireWorld would be a good guess.


----------



## ragged

FWIW, after upgrading my PJ and receiver, I was having issues with getting a 4k signal. It's a 27' long run from AVR to PJ. I initially bought a 30' long premium certified cable from monoprice. That worked as long as the cable was outside the wall, as soon as I put it in the smurf tube, it stopped working. (See picture). After trying a few different hdmi boosters, I bought this fiber optic hdmi cable and it's working great so far. Never heard of this manufacturer but cable does what it supposed to.

I also got rid of the wall plate connectors.

8K Fiber HDMI Cable 33ft, BIFALE HDMI 2.1 Fiber Optic cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKC5Q92/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_A-z5DbCVEVZ5R


----------



## Otto Pylot

ragged said:


> FWIW, after upgrading my PJ and receiver, I was having issues with getting a 4k signal. It's a 27' long run from AVR to PJ. I initially bought a 30' long premium certified cable from monoprice. That worked as long as the cable was outside the wall, as soon as I put it in the smurf tube, it stopped working. (See picture). After trying a few different hdmi boosters, I bought this fiber optic hdmi cable and it's working great so far. Never heard of this manufacturer but cable does what it supposed to.
> 
> I also got rid of the wall plate connectors.
> 
> 8K Fiber HDMI Cable 33ft, BIFALE HDMI 2.1 Fiber Optic cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKC5Q92/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_A-z5DbCVEVZ5R


You got lucky. The cable is marketed as an "HDMI 2.1 cable" which is pushing the HDMI.org marketing and product description guidelines, but they do mention the HDMI 2.1 options sets that the cable has been tested for, which is required. However, there are no consumer devices that can utilize the option sets that require the 48Gbps so how well the cable will perform with those feature sets has yet to be proven. Testing in a lab is quite different than actual consumer use in home.

Sounds like the copper-only cable got bent or kinked once you installed it inside of the conduit. The nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable so bend radius is a bit more generous. If you used the wall plate that could also have been a source of issues.

Wall plates, adapters, and extenders can cause issues with 4k HDR and long runs. 4k HDR can be finicky with its connection so ideally you want a single cable run from source to sink with nothing in-between. This is especially true with active cables.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> ...the nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable...


No, they’re thin because glass is thin, there’s only one glass channel, and there is only a single copper conductor (in the case of a hybrid setup) so little to no shielding and insulation is needed.


----------



## jch2

TrendSetterX said:


> Otto Pylot said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...the nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable...
> 
> 
> 
> No, theyâ€™️re thin because glass is thin, thereâ€™️s only one glass channel, and there is only a single copper conductor (in the case of a hybrid setup) so little to no shielding and insulation is needed.
Click to expand...

In a typical hybrid fiber cable there are actually four fiber/glass channels. Three running 6gbps for a combined bandwidth of 18.2gbps, and the fourth channel used for timing/clock. And in a hybrid cable the fiber is one-way (source to sink) so there are typically seven copper wires/channels for the return path, as that is what is needed for EDID, CEC, ARC, and +5v power and ground which power the chips in each end. Nonetheless, the seven copper lines can be much thinner than the typical 23.5/24awg used in long copper HDMI cables because those 7 aren't being used for high bandwidth data. So that's a total of 11 fiber/copper channels running through a hybrid fiber cable, vs 19 copper wires in non-fiber cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> No, they’re thin because glass is thin, there’s only one glass channel, and there is only a single copper conductor (in the case of a hybrid setup) so little to no shielding and insulation is needed.


I should have proof read my post before posting. I didn't complete my thought so it's misleading a bit. However, if someone was to see my mistake and correct it, you're the one.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> In a typical hybrid fiber cable there are actually four fiber/glass channels. Three running 6gbps for a combined bandwidth of 18.2gbps, and the fourth channel used for timing/clock. And in a hybrid cable the fiber is one-way (source to sink) so there are typically seven copper wires/channels for the return path, as that is what is needed for EDID, CEC, ARC, and +5v power and ground which power the chips in each end. Nonetheless, the seven copper lines can be much thinner than the typical 23.5/24awg used in long copper HDMI cables because those 7 aren't being used for high bandwidth data. So that's a total of 11 fiber/copper channels running through a hybrid fiber cable, vs 19 copper wires in non-fiber cable.


Yes, I realize that. HDMI defines 19+1 wires, so copper HDMI cable have 19+1 copper wires.

Hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro for example) are made up of 4 optic wires and 8 copper wires. 4 optic wires are for the high speed data transfer of the traditional HDMI copper 1-12wires. The 8 copper wires are for the low speed data of the traditional HDMI 13-19 and +1 line, which is usually HDCP, ARC, and EDID.


----------



## jch2

Otto Pylot said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In a typical hybrid fiber cable there are actually four fiber/glass channels. Three running 6gbps for a combined bandwidth of 18.2gbps, and the fourth channel used for timing/clock. And in a hybrid cable the fiber is one-way (source to sink) so there are typically seven copper wires/channels for the return path, as that is what is needed for EDID, CEC, ARC, and +5v power and ground which power the chips in each end. Nonetheless, the seven copper lines can be much thinner than the typical 23.5/24awg used in long copper HDMI cables because those 7 aren't being used for high bandwidth data. So that's a total of 11 fiber/copper channels running through a hybrid fiber cable, vs 19 copper wires in non-fiber cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I realize that. HDMI defines 19+1 wires, so copper HDMI cable have 19+1 copper wires.
> 
> Hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro for example) are made up of 4 optic wires and 8 copper wires. 4 optic wires are for the high speed data transfer of the traditional HDMI copper 1-12wires. The 8 copper wires are for the low speed data of the traditional HDMI 13-19 and +1 line, which is usually HDCP, ARC, and EDID.
Click to expand...

There are only 19 pins, and 19 wires in an HDMI cable. The +1 is the jacket/shield and is not counted as a conductor or used for data transmission.

So, I'll restate my original point, which has nothing to do with your post Otto, it was in reply to the erroneous information posted by @TrendSetterX that hybrid fiber cables are thin because there is only one fiber and one copper conductor. The correct information is that in a hybrid fiber cable there are 4 fiber and 7 copper conductors (plus a jacket/shield), and they are thin because the fiber is thin and the 7 copper conductors are also very thin (most likely around 28awg) because they are low bandwidth. In a traditional long passive HDMI cable, there are 19 copper wires and usually somewhere between 23.5-26awg depending on the cable length. 19 24awg conductors is significantly thicker than 4 fiber plus 7 28awg conductors.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jch2 said:


> There are only 19 pins, and 19 wires in an HDMI cable. The +1 is the jacket/shield and is not counted as a conductor or used for data transmission.
> 
> So, I'll restate my original point, which has nothing to do with your post Otto, it was in reply to the erroneous information posted by @TrendSetterX that hybrid fiber cables are thin because there is only one fiber and one copper conductor. The correct information is that in a hybrid fiber cable there are 4 fiber and 7 copper conductors (plus a jacket/shield), and they are thin because the fiber is thin and the 7 copper conductors are also very thin (most likely around 28awg) because they are low bandwidth. In a traditional long passive HDMI cable, there are 19 copper wires and usually somewhere between 23.5-26awg depending on the cable length. 19 24awg conductors is significantly thicker than 4 fiber plus 7 28awg conductors.


Not arguing or correcting you so if that's how it came across, sorry, that was not my intent. Yes, the +1 is the jacket so 19+1 is a bit confusing for those who do not know how a hybrid fiber cable is constructed. There are variations of a theme to a degree depending on how well the cable is made and other factors. The information I posted is from Ruipro and how they construct their cables.


----------



## ragged

Otto Pylot said:


> ragged said:
> 
> 
> 
> FWIW, after upgrading my PJ and receiver, I was having issues with getting a 4k signal. It's a 27' long run from AVR to PJ. I initially bought a 30' long premium certified cable from monoprice. That worked as long as the cable was outside the wall, as soon as I put it in the smurf tube, it stopped working. (See picture). After trying a few different hdmi boosters, I bought this fiber optic hdmi cable and it's working great so far. Never heard of this manufacturer but cable does what it supposed to.
> 
> I also got rid of the wall plate connectors.
> 
> 8K Fiber HDMI Cable 33ft, BIFALE HDMI 2.1 Fiber Optic cable https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZKC5Q92/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_A-z5DbCVEVZ5R
> 
> 
> 
> You got lucky. The cable is marketed as an "HDMI 2.1 cable" which is pushing the HDMI.org marketing and product description guidelines, but they do mention the HDMI 2.1 options sets that the cable has been tested for, which is required. However, there are no consumer devices that can utilize the option sets that require the 48Gbps so how well the cable will perform with those feature sets has yet to be proven. Testing in a lab is quite different than actual consumer use in home.
> 
> Sounds like the copper-only cable got bent or kinked once you installed it inside of the conduit. The nice thing about hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin due to the active nature of the cable so bend radius is a bit more generous. If you used the wall plate that could also have been a source of issues.
> 
> Wall plates, adapters, and extenders can cause issues with 4k HDR and long runs. 4k HDR can be finicky with its connection so ideally you want a single cable run from source to sink with nothing in-between. This is especially true with active cables.
Click to expand...

I'll take a bit of luck anyday. It was just the cheapest 5k fiber hdmi cable I found on Amazon. Solved my problem and has been working just fine so far.

The monoprice cable wasn't kinked, it just didn't work so I probably just got a bad one.


----------



## smhunter1983

*8K Cable Available - Start Testing!*

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our cable.
Our 8K cable is available via Amazon at present.
Please proceed your purchasing via the below link.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SQXPWB 

We will do our best to support every customer if any questions.
Thank you,

B/Regards 
Thomas
Sales Director
Email: [email protected]
Skype: thomashdmi
Office: +86-755-82591739
Mobile/WhatsApp/Wechat: +86-18938913536

IAVPRO/RUIPRO(International brand of SuniinTech)
Add: 3rd Floor, F Building, ZhiDa Industry Park
LongPing West Road,Longgang District
518172 ShenZhen, GuangDong, China


----------



## JMak00

I am having a hard time figuring out which HDMI cables to purchase.

I have a Sony 75X950G which has eARC.
I will be purchasing a Denon X1600H AVR which is eARC.
I will be purchasing a Sony UBP-X700 4k BR Player.

I will connect my Xbox 1 S, 4K Firestick, and BR player to the AVR and the AVR to the TV.

I will also be running a 7.1 setup.

First, I think I care about eARC because I think I care about lossless or uncompressed audio so I can utilize DTS Master, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and some inprovement in lip sync.
Second, does eARC matter if I am connecting my inputs to the AVR? I think I have read that if I connect an Xbox or BR player to my AVR then the audio is lossless anyway. In other words, eARC only matters when trying to push lossless/uncompressed audio from the TV to the AVR.
Third, I also want to make sure that I get uncompressed audio from the internal apps in which case I am sending audio from the TV to the AVR, so I think I need eARC for that, right?

So...

I need a single eARC compliant cable from the TV to the AVR. I think?

In my setup, the HDMI to the TV is in the wall, so I'll really need an in-wall eARC cable and then an eARC cable from the AVR to the wallplate.

Is the right cable for me - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A5PDKQ/ref=emc_b_5_t?th=1 ?

The specs indicate that it will pass Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio and it mentions that will share an internet connection which implies that it is HDMI with ethernet.

If not that one, then this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014I8T8FC/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B001A5PDKQ?th=1 ? Although uncertified, it does indicate that it supprts ethernet, again, implying it is HDMI with ethernet.\

Lastly, should I be looking at 48gbps cables?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JMak00 said:


> I am having a hard time figuring out which HDMI cables to purchase.
> 
> I have a Sony 75X950G which has eARC.
> I will be purchasing a Denon X1600H AVR which is eARC.
> I will be purchasing a Sony UBP-X700 4k BR Player.
> 
> I will connect my Xbox 1 S, 4K Firestick, and BR player to the AVR and the AVR to the TV.
> 
> I will also be running a 7.1 setup.
> 
> First, I think I care about eARC because I think I care about lossless or uncompressed audio so I can utilize DTS Master, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and some inprovement in lip sync.
> Second, does eARC matter if I am connecting my inputs to the AVR? I think I have read that if I connect an Xbox or BR player to my AVR then the audio is lossless anyway. In other words, eARC only matters when trying to push lossless/uncompressed audio from the TV to the AVR.
> Third, I also want to make sure that I get uncompressed audio from the internal apps in which case I am sending audio from the TV to the AVR, so I think I need eARC for that, right?
> 
> So...
> 
> I need a single eARC compliant cable from the TV to the AVR. I think?
> 
> In my setup, the HDMI to the TV is in the wall, so I'll really need an in-wall eARC cable and then an eARC cable from the AVR to the wallplate.
> 
> Is the right cable for me - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A5PDKQ/ref=emc_b_5_t?th=1 ?
> 
> The specs indicate that it will pass Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio and it mentions that will share an internet connection which implies that it is HDMI with ethernet.
> 
> If not that one, then this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014I8T8FC/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B001A5PDKQ?th=1 ? Although uncertified, it does indicate that it supprts ethernet, again, implying it is HDMI with ethernet.\
> 
> Lastly, should I be looking at 48gbps cables?
> 
> Thanks for any advice or suggestions.



1. How long is your cable run?
2. In-wall cabling should be installed in a conduit to facilitate easy swapping out of the cable if need be, and to control bend radius.

3. Wall plates should be avoided (as well as adapters, extenders, etc) because 4k HDR really needs a single direct connection, source to sink, without any "interruptions" in the cable path for the most reliable and consistent connection.

4. There are no truly certified 48Gbps cables, yet. Lots of fancy marketing and claims so caveat emptor. And unless you are going to eventually upgrade all of your devices to the HDMI 2.1 hardware option sets, you should be ok with the "rule of thumb" recommendations below.
5. eARC is still tricky so you may have to do some "cable swapping" (see point 2 above) before you find one that works correctly, as well as some system tweaking to get it to work right.



General rule of thumb for cables for 4k HDR:
Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified with the QR label for authenticity) for runs up to 25'.
Hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro4k or 8k) for runs longer than 25'. However, they are expensive but have the most favorable reviews by actual AVS members.


----------



## Craig Mecak

JMak00 said:


> I am having a hard time figuring out which HDMI cables to purchase.
> 
> I have a Sony 75X950G which has eARC.
> I will be purchasing a Denon X1600H AVR which is eARC.
> I will be purchasing a Sony UBP-X700 4k BR Player.
> 
> I will connect my Xbox 1 S, 4K Firestick, and BR player to the AVR and the AVR to the TV.
> 
> I will also be running a 7.1 setup.
> 
> First, I think I care about eARC because I think I care about lossless or uncompressed audio so I can utilize DTS Master, DTS:X, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos and some inprovement in lip sync.
> Second, does eARC matter if I am connecting my inputs to the AVR? I think I have read that if I connect an Xbox or BR player to my AVR then the audio is lossless anyway. In other words, eARC only matters when trying to push lossless/uncompressed audio from the TV to the AVR.
> Third, I also want to make sure that I get uncompressed audio from the internal apps in which case I am sending audio from the TV to the AVR, so I think I need eARC for that, right?
> 
> So...
> 
> I need a single eARC compliant cable from the TV to the AVR. I think?
> 
> In my setup, the HDMI to the TV is in the wall, so I'll really need an in-wall eARC cable and then an eARC cable from the AVR to the wallplate.
> 
> Is the right cable for me - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A5PDKQ/ref=emc_b_5_t?th=1 ?
> 
> The specs indicate that it will pass Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio and it mentions that will share an internet connection which implies that it is HDMI with ethernet.
> 
> If not that one, then this - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014I8T8FC/ref=psdc_3236443011_t1_B001A5PDKQ?th=1 ? Although uncertified, it does indicate that it supprts ethernet, again, implying it is HDMI with ethernet.\
> 
> Lastly, should I be looking at 48gbps cables?
> 
> Thanks for any advice or suggestions.



For your situation, eARC doesn't matter because you're connecting all your sources to your AV reciever first.


No streaming apps use lossless audio like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD:MA, so again eARC is of no benefit to you. Regular ARC will do just fine, which does PCM 2.0, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus & DTS lossy audio.


No, in your situation, 48Gb/s cables are of no benefit, as none of your sources are using anywhere near that bandwidth. Just use normal 18 Gb/s HDMI 2.0b Ultra Premium Certified cables. Only go for 48 Gb/s cables if you feel you may need that kind of bandwidth for possible future source devices.


----------



## JMak00

Otto Pylot said:


> 1. How long is your cable run?
> 2. In-wall cabling should be installed in a conduit to facilitate easy swapping out of the cable if need be, and to control bend radius.
> 
> 3. Wall plates should be avoided (as well as adapters, extenders, etc) because 4k HDR really needs a single direct connection, source to sink, without any "interruptions" in the cable path for the most reliable and consistent connection.
> 
> 4. There are no truly certified 48Gbps cables, yet. Lots of fancy marketing and claims so caveat emptor. And unless you are going to eventually upgrade all of your devices to the HDMI 2.1 hardware option sets, you should be ok with the "rule of thumb" recommendations below.
> 5. eARC is still tricky so you may have to do some "cable swapping" (see point 2 above) before you find one that works correctly, as well as some system tweaking to get it to work right.
> 
> 
> 
> General rule of thumb for cables for 4k HDR:
> Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified with the QR label for authenticity) for runs up to 25'.
> Hybrid fiber cables (Ruipro4k or 8k) for runs longer than 25'. However, they are expensive but have the most favorable reviews by actual AVS members.


15ft. Well, 3feet from avr to wall and then need 10-12feet inside the wall to the tv.

The wall still open behind the tv, I may just add some conduit there.

I guess I could get a single cable and one of those brush wall plates to push it through.

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## JMak00

Craig Mecak said:


> For your situation, eARC doesn't matter because you're connecting all your sources to your AV reciever first.
> 
> No streaming apps use lossless audio like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD:MA, so again eARC is of no benefit to you. Regular ARC will do just fine, which does PCM 2.0, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus & DTS lossy audio.
> 
> No, in your situation, 48Gb/s cables are of no benefit, as none of your sources are using anywhere near that bandwidth. Just use normal 18 Gb/s HDMI 2.0b Ultra Premium Certified cables. Only go for 48 Gb/s cables if you feel you may need that kind of bandwidth for possible future source devices.


I was thinking the same as I am using the AVR as a hub for the devices.

Didn't realize that streaming apps don't do lossless. Now, is this streaming apps through the tv or will my BR player streaming apps be lossless? Or is this a limitation of streaming generally?

Normal 18gb/s cables ordered...thanks.


----------



## Joe Fernand

_'Didn't realize that streaming apps don't do lossless. Now, is this streaming apps through the tv or will my BR player streaming apps be lossless? Or is this a limitation of streaming generally?'._

Now you are into a whole other world of pain 

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-networking-media-servers-content-streaming/

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

JMak00 said:


> 15ft. Well, 3feet from avr to wall and then need 10-12feet inside the wall to the tv.
> 
> The wall still open behind the tv, I may just add some conduit there.
> 
> I guess I could get a single cable and one of those brush wall plates to push it through.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


You can't go wrong with adding conduit. You could even throw in some solid core CAT-6 cabling (non-CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet cable) for potential future use (HDBT or extending an ethernet connection). Add a pull string and you're all set for repairs/upgrades, whatever. The use of a conduit is really the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs.

The other technical aspects have been covered by Joe and Craig. Using the avr as the hub of your system is what most of us do. If you want to use the on-board apps in your tv, and don't want to bother with ARC (which still has lots of issues) then just connect via optical cable to pass 5.1 audio back to your system.

Premium High Speed HDMI cables will work just fine at your distances for HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. "Ultra" is really just a marketing term right now. UHS (Ultra High Speed) HDMI cables is the term that will be, or should be used for cables that have met the HDMI 2.1 option sets because the term will be used to distinguish the cables from Premium (18Gbps) and Ultra (48Gbps). It is being loosely applied to all kinds of cables now. Personally I wouldn't bother with a cable that is supposed to be 48Gbps because you don't have any hardware that can handle that bandwidth and there aren't any source material as of yet that can take advantage of all the HDMI 2.1 has to offer. Keep in mind that it's the HDMI chipset versions in your devices that determine what you can and can not do. The cable is just the data pipe.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Otto Pylot said:


> You can't go wrong with adding conduit. You could even throw in some solid core CAT-6 cabling (non-CCA and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet cable) for potential future use (HDBT or extending an ethernet connection). Add a pull string and you're all set for repairs/upgrades, whatever. The use of a conduit is really the ONLY way to future proof your cabling needs.
> 
> The other technical aspects have been covered by Joe and Craig. Using the avr as the hub of your system is what most of us do. If you want to use the on-board apps in your tv, and don't want to bother with ARC (which still has lots of issues) then just connect via optical cable to pass 5.1 audio back to your system.
> 
> Premium High Speed HDMI cables will work just fine at your distances for HDMI 2.0 hardware specs. "Ultra" is really just a marketing term right now. UHS (Ultra High Speed) HDMI cables is the term that will be, or should be used for cables that have met the HDMI 2.1 option sets because the term will be used to distinguish the cables from Premium (18Gbps) and Ultra (48Gbps). It is being loosely applied to all kinds of cables now. Personally I wouldn't bother with a cable that is supposed to be 48Gbps because you don't have any hardware that can handle that bandwidth and there aren't any source material as of yet that can take advantage of all the HDMI 2.1 has to offer. Keep in mind that it's the HDMI chipset versions in your devices that determine what you can and can not do. The cable is just the data pipe.


Otto is CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet cable the same as patch cables? If so what is the problem?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> Otto is CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet cable the same as patch cables? If so what is the problem?


The CAT-6 that I use is solid pure copper core (non-CCA), comes in a spool, and is not terminated. It is usually AWG23 UTP, individually insulated and contained in a flexible jacket. It is designed, in part, for gigabit ethernet over long distances and can support voice, video, and data communications and is similar to OC-3 (Optical Carrier 3) cabling. You can either terminate it with a punchdown keystone jack to extend your ethernet connection, which is what I have done successfully throughout my house to hardwire my HTS's and satellite routers for my mesh WiFi system, or you can also use it very successfully for video by terminating with an active extender like HDBT. Solid core also has performance specifics up to 550MHz. IMO, the cable is superior and more robust for runs over 50' than pre-terminated ethernet patch cable. The longest pre-terminated CAT-6 ethernet patch cable that I use is 5'. 

Non-terminated solid core cable also gives you the flexibility of leaving a decent service loop in the j-box so terminating or changing the termination as your needs change is much easier. There is nothing wrong with pre-terminated ethernet patch cable but I think your best bet would be solid core for those long runs.


I might add that CAT-6 is just a specification for cabling, whether it be solid core or pre-terminated ethernet patch cable. The use of solid copper wiring of sufficient gauge greatly reduces cross-talk and other issues when it comes to pushing audio/video data at high speeds.


----------



## 65Goat

smhunter1983 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our cable.
> Our 8K cable is available via Amazon at present.
> Please proceed your purchasing via the below link.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SQXPWB
> 
> We will do our best to support every customer if any questions.
> Thank you,
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> Email: [email protected]
> Skype: thomashdmi
> Office: +86-755-82591739
> Mobile/WhatsApp/Wechat: +86-18938913536
> 
> IAVPRO/RUIPRO(International brand of SuniinTech)
> Add: 3rd Floor, F Building, ZhiDa Industry Park
> LongPing West Road,Longgang District
> 518172 ShenZhen, GuangDong, China



I was looking at your cables on Amazon and noticed that the 6ft and 10ft cables come in either fiber or copper. Do they both perform identically or would one be better than the other in these lengths?

~ Mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

65Goat said:


> I was looking at your cables on Amazon and noticed that the 6ft and 10ft cables come in either fiber or copper. Do they both perform identically or would one be better than the other in these lengths?
> 
> ~ Mike



Fiber cables are active, in that they draw a little bit of power from the sink end (tv). All active cables, be they copper or fiber are designed the same. For HDMI 2.0 at 6' or 10' lengths, a certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label for authenticity) should work just fine. Given the cost of the hybrid fiber cables, especially at that length, fiber would be an overkill. That being said, I tested the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at the 5' length on my HTS and they performed the same as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified) at the same length for the HDMI 2.0 options sets. I do have a review on this forum about the fiber cables vs the copper-only cables at the short lengths.


----------



## 65Goat

Otto Pylot said:


> Fiber cables are active, in that they draw a little bit of power from the sink end (tv). All active cables, be they copper or fiber are designed the same. For HDMI 2.0 at 6' or 10' lengths, a certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label for authenticity) should work just fine. Given the cost of the hybrid fiber cables, especially at that length, fiber would be an overkill. That being said, I tested the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables at the 5' length on my HTS and they performed the same as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables (certified) at the same length for the HDMI 2.0 options sets. I do have a review on this forum about the fiber cables vs the copper-only cables at the short lengths.


Thanks Otto - I appreciate the feedback.


----------



## ClemsonChad

Hi all. Back in the summer of 2017, I purchased the following RUIPRO HDMI cable for my non-dedicated theater room. The cable runs from my projector, above the ceiling, down the wall, and into my Denon receiver. 

I am changing my pj screen, moving my pj back on the ceiling and possibly upgrading my pj from the JVC RS520 to the JVC RS2000, and it will remain running through my 2017 Denon AVR and used with my Panasonic 4k player, Apple TV 4k, etc. Should I upgrade my HDMI cable? If so, now would be the perfect time. TIA!

RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Slim and Flexible With Optic Tech

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGDFCSC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

ClemsonChad said:


> Hi all. Back in the summer of 2017, I purchased the following RUIPRO HDMI cable for my non-dedicated theater room. The cable runs from my projector, above the ceiling, down the wall, and into my Denon receiver.
> 
> I am changing my pj screen, moving my pj back on the ceiling and possibly upgrading my pj from the JVC RS520 to the JVC RS2000, and it will remain running through my 2017 Denon AVR and used with my Panasonic 4k player, Apple TV 4k, etc. Should I upgrade my HDMI cable? If so, now would be the perfect time. TIA!
> 
> RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable 33 feet Light High Speed Support 18.2 Gbps 4K at 60Hz HDMI 2.0 Subsampling 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0 Slim and Flexible With Optic Tech
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XGDFCSC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I would wait to see if the cable still works with the new equipment. It should but to keep troubleshooting at a minimum, I'd wait for a bit. If your cable is installed in a conduit (which it should be if it's not easily accessible) then swapping out the cable for a newer Ruipro4k cable or the newest Ruipro8k cable should be relatively easy. Keep in mind that there have been reports that some active cables with pj's have had issues. Probably due to the fact that the power draw from the HDMI input is not consistent enough. A voltage inserter has corrected that in some cases.


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## john.odonnell01

Does anyone know the difference in the 4k and 8k cables that allow the 18 or 48gbps? just asking for a friend, LOL.


----------



## JMak00

john.odonnell01 said:


> Does anyone know the difference in the 4k and 8k cables that allow the 18 or 48gbps? just asking for a friend, LOL.


Great question. It seems like it is the throughput and that 8k is necessary for only 8k displays. Seems too simple to be true, though. 

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> Does anyone know the difference in the 4k and 8k cables that allow the 18 or 48gbps? just asking for a friend, LOL.



Passive "4k" cables (18Gbps) can be certified up to 25' by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center) and will come with a QR label for authenticity. The certification is an assurance that the cable has met all HDMI 2.0 option sets. It's not a 100% guarantee because there are other variables that come into play for a successful cable run. However, it's about as good as one can get. Active cables can not be certified by an ATC, yet. There is no independent certification program yet for "8k" cables, which would adhere to the HDMI 2.1 option sets (48Gbps). Any claims made by the mfr's must be taken with a grain of salt. So unless your source and sink devices have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets that have been demonstrated or validated to pass all HDMI 2.1 options sets without issues, and you have source material to take advantage of all the HDMI 2.1 has to offer, they won't give you any better performance than the current cables that are certified for HDMI 2.0. Most all consumer devices have HDMI 2.0 chipsets in them, so regardless of what you push thru the data pipe (cable) you'll be limited as to what the hardware will allow because at this point in time, it's all standardized around HDMI 2.0.


If you're looking to "future proof", then unless you have easy access to your cabling (not installed in-wall for example) the use of a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof as it makes for swapping out or upgrading your cabling easier and safer.


----------



## john.odonnell01

JMak00 said:


> Great question. It seems like it is the throughput and that 8k is necessary for only 8k displays. Seems too simple to be true, though.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk



Is it just a chip in the connectors?


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> Is it just a chip in the connectors?



It's a little bit more involved than that. Yes, the HDMI chipsets in your source (BD player for example) and the sink (typically your tv) should have the same HDMI chipsets in them. Most devices nowadays have at least the newest HDMI 2.0 chipsets in them so one can take advantage of the HDMI 2.0 option sets (4k HDR, HD Audio, ARC/CEC, etc). It's the HDMI chipsets that dictate what you will be able to do. HDM is backwards compatible only in that you will get a connection (a/v) but you will be limited to the in-common protocols available. IOW, if you have a device that has the older HDMI 1.4 chipsets connected to a device that has the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, you will only be able to successfully utilize what is available from the HDMI 1.4 protocols (option sets).


The cable is just the data pipe. It needs to be designed and built so that it can handle the high speed data that is being passed between source and sink so that what is sent, is received without any errors. The more data that is sent (HDMI 2.1 for example) the better the cable has to be built and rigorously tested. Cable distance is also a big factor. Longer cables (>25') have more chances of data errors than shorter cables for technical reasons so those have to be taken into consideration when designing a cable for longer distances.


If you use an active cable, a cable that has a chipset in the connector end that draws a little power from the HDMI input, that can compensate the long runs for error correction, timing, etc and you can extend that distance (theoretically) without issues. But that too can have problems if the chipets in the cable connector ends are not current enough to work properly with the source/sink chipsets. An active cable that uses the older Redmere chipsets in them might not work reliably with the newest HDMI 2.0 chipests as opposed to the newer Spectra 7 HT8181 chipsets (Redmere is now Spectra).


Cable installation is also a factor to a certain degree when it comes to bend radius, wire gauge, strain on the HDMI input, using a conduit or not using a conduit for long runs, etc.



1080i/p has typically not been a problem with any cable type and just about any distance. 4k HDR and beyond is the problem due to the amount of data that is being transmitted. Unfortunately, purchasing cables is still a roll of the dice for some. So all you can do is look at your setup, what you want to achieve now and possibly in the future and try. There is no one solution for everybody. And that is complicated with slick marketing and sometimes questionable claims made by the cable mfrs and resellers.


----------



## Agent6er

Just a few more months and we can start getting UHS HDMI certified cables. Sounds like they are working on active cable certification also, to come along at a later time. 

https://www.hdmi.org/spec21Sub/UltraHighSpeedCable


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## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> Just a few more months and we can start getting UHS HDMI certified cables. Sounds like they are working on active cable certification also, to come along at a later time.
> 
> https://www.hdmi.org/spec21Sub/UltraHighSpeedCable



For runs up to 3m (9') and passive cables only, as specified in the original specification documents. The specs do allow for active cables but certifying them has proven to be difficult, as it was for HDMI 2.0.


----------



## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> It's a little bit more involved than that. Yes, the HDMI chipsets in your source (BD player for example) and the sink (typically your tv) should have the same HDMI chipsets in them. Most devices nowadays have at least the newest HDMI 2.0 chipsets in them so one can take advantage of the HDMI 2.0 option sets (4k HDR, HD Audio, ARC/CEC, etc). It's the HDMI chipsets that dictate what you will be able to do. HDM is backwards compatible only in that you will get a connection (a/v) but you will be limited to the in-common protocols available. IOW, if you have a device that has the older HDMI 1.4 chipsets connected to a device that has the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, you will only be able to successfully utilize what is available from the HDMI 1.4 protocols (option sets).
> 
> 
> Understood
> 
> 
> The cable is just the data pipe. It needs to be designed and built so that it can handle the high speed data that is being passed between source and sink so that what is sent, is received without any errors. The more data that is sent (HDMI 2.1 for example) the better the cable has to be built and rigorously tested. Cable distance is also a big factor. Longer cables (>25') have more chances of data errors than shorter cables for technical reasons so those have to be taken into consideration when designing a cable for longer distances.
> 
> 
> Understood as well
> 
> 
> If you use an active cable, a cable that has a chipset in the connector end that draws a little power from the HDMI input, that can compensate the long runs for error correction, timing, etc and you can extend that distance (theoretically) without issues. But that too can have problems if the chipets in the cable connector ends are not current enough to work properly with the source/sink chipsets. An active cable that uses the older Redmere chipsets in them might not work reliably with the newest HDMI 2.0 chipests as opposed to the newer Spectra 7 HT8181 chipsets (Redmere is now Spectra).
> 
> 
> Understood again. thank you.
> 
> 
> Cable installation is also a factor to a certain degree when it comes to bend radius, wire gauge, strain on the HDMI input, using a conduit or not using a conduit for long runs, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 1080i/p has typically not been a problem with any cable type and just about any distance. 4k HDR and beyond is the problem due to the amount of data that is being transmitted. Unfortunately, purchasing cables is still a roll of the dice for some. So all you can do is look at your setup, what you want to achieve now and possibly in the future and try. There is no one solution for everybody. And that is complicated with slick marketing and sometimes questionable claims made by the cable mfrs and resellers.





Thank You otto. I get that there is a coding in the source that Codes to a given standard, 1.4, 2.0, 2.1. I also understand that the sink must be able to decode whatever standard, again 1.4, 2.0, 2.1. The pipe as you refer to it, must also pass the standard, 1.4, 2.0, 2.1.. The system, all parts together will "default" to the lowest standard of any of the 3 parts. 


A passive cable, I assume still has a chip set in it. This has to get power somewhere. While an active cable, definitely has a power draw from usually the sink end, correct?. If it is optic, does it draw from both ends? 


Whether it is 19+1, 8+4+1, whatever we have for construction, the original question was about a chip at one end or both ends of the cable. 


Thank you for all previous and future comments.


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> Thank You otto. I get that there is a coding in the source that Codes to a given standard, 1.4, 2.0, 2.1. I also understand that the sink must be able to decode whatever standard, again 1.4, 2.0, 2.1. The pipe as you refer to it, must also pass the standard, 1.4, 2.0, 2.1.. The system, all parts together will "default" to the lowest standard of any of the 3 parts.
> 
> 
> A passive cable, I assume still has a chip set in it. This has to get power somewhere. While an active cable, definitely has a power draw from usually the sink end, correct?. If it is optic, does it draw from both ends?
> 
> 
> Whether it is 19+1, 8+4+1, whatever we have for construction, the original question was about a chip at one end or both ends of the cable.
> 
> 
> Thank you for all previous and future comments.


A passive cable does not have a chipset in the connector ends to augment and monitor the signal. A passive cable connection depends solely on the HDMI chipsets in the HDMI inputs of the source and sink devices.


----------



## torii

I ordered some of these to run thru my attic/home...look/feel good but whats the way to test? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Otto Pylot

torii said:


> I ordered some of these to run thru my attic/home...look/feel good but whats the way to test? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Lay them out on the floor and use them until you're satisfied that they will meet your needs. Then install them in your conduit. I'm assuming you are using a conduit and this will be a single source to sink connection (no wall plates, adapters, or extenders). The connectors have been certified by an ATC so that's something but unless your devices have the current HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them (doubtful), and you have source material that requires the 48Gbps bandwidth (again, doubtful) you'll have to be satisfied with the HDMI 2.0 option sets (4k HDR) for testing purposes at present.


The cables are copper-only so bend radius may be an issue if you don't give them enough room to connect easily from source to sink. Keep in mind that the current HDMI 2.1 specifications state that the maximum cable length for UHS HDMI cables is 1m - 3m (3' to 9') for passive cables. The connectors have passed HDMI 2.1 CTS but there is no mention of the physical cable between the connectors. According to HDMI.org, cables that have been tested and passed for HDMI 2.1 should have the body of the cable labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI and come with a certification label if the entire product has been tested and passed.



They should be fine for HDMI 2.0 so let us know how they work out.


----------



## torii

Otto Pylot said:


> They should be fine for HDMI 2.0 so let us know how they work out.



I will be using them on c9 and xfinity 4k box...no idea/doubt they in spec. 

just what I gambled on. should get my tv by wednesday. its in town, just need local shipper to commit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

torii said:


> I will be using them on c9 and xfinity 4k box...no idea/doubt they in spec.
> 
> just what I gambled on. should get my tv by wednesday. its in town, just need local shipper to commit.



Do you have easy access to your cables just in case you need to upgrade to something like a hybrid fiber later on down the road once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild?


----------



## torii

Otto Pylot said:


> Do you have easy access to your cables just in case you need to upgrade to something like a hybrid fiber later on down the road once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild?



thank you otto....yes I will have acces to all as its my forever home. i just upgraded all my cat cables to 7...gained me a whopping 50 mbs...on 1gb connection. will test/report back when my c9 77in gets installed. my avr is old...a new one may be in the works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

torii said:


> thank you otto....yes I will have acces to all as its my forever home. i just upgraded all my cat cables to 7...gained me a whopping 50 mbs...on 1gb connection. will test/report back when my c9 77in gets installed. my avr is old...a new one may be in the works.


Excellent! Do let us know how it goes.


----------



## jch2

john.odonnell01 said:


> A passive cable, I assume still has a chip set in it.


That is an incorrect assumption. A passive cable has no chips. It's 19 pins to 19 wires to 19 pins, plus a shield around the whole thing (the shield is the +1 part of 19+1). There is no electrical connection or data passed over the shield, it is connected to the chassis ground of the components at each end and used to keep electromagnetic signals from inside the cable getting out and interfering with other cables and components, and keep electromagnetic signals from outside the cable (i.e. noise/interference) from from getting into the cable.



john.odonnell01 said:


> An active cable, definitely has a power draw from usually the sink end, correct?. If it is optic, does it draw from both ends?


Active cables, whether they are copper, fiber, or a hybrid of both, have chips at both ends. The power only comes from the source (HDMI spec says the source provides the +5V, 50ma max on pin 18, except MHL capable HDMI ports which provide more current for device charging). If you have an AVR, then the AVR provides the +5V power on its HDMI output(s). And if your AVR has multiple HDMI outputs it most likely uses a detect of power draw on pin 18 to determine if the display/sink is on or in standby.

Active cables are also directional, because high speed data only goes one way, from source to sink. So, the transmitter chip is at the source end, and receiver chip is at the sink end for pins 1-12. The sink to source backfeed data (CEC, ARC, EDID, Ethernet) uses pins 13-19 and is low bandwidth and generally doesn't need any help, even at long distances. In an active cable, pins 1-12 are assisted by the chipset. In a fiber cable, these 12 lines become four 6gbps fiber lanes (3 for 18gbps data rate, and one for clock). In an active copper or hybrid fiber cable pins 13-19 are generally pass-through and copper, except the chips at both ends draw power from pin 18.

In an active cable this power draw is always on, and also passes through to the sink that also draws power from the +5v line when it is on. Most sources and AVRs use a power draw on pin 18 as a way to detect if the display is on. When the display is in standby the power draw on pin 18 is removed, allowing an AVR to know which of the connected displays are powered on. Active cables are always drawing power, so this causes issues with AVRs trying to output to multiple displays.

Let's say you have an AVR with two outputs, HDMI Out 1 and HDMI Out 2. You have a TV connected to HDMI Out 1 using a passive cable, and a projector connected to HDMI Out 2 using a longer active cable. When you try to just watch TV with the projector off, the power draw of the active cable makes the AVR think that both the TV and projector are on. The AVR will attempt to sync with the projector and fail (since it is in standby), this will cause the entire HDMI chain to fail, the signal to the TV will stop, and the audio to the AVR will stop, and then the AVR will reset the HDMI chain (maybe after 30 seconds) and try again. This happens with Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha AVRs, and probably others too but I haven't tested others. The only solution is that you can't use the automatic HDMI 1+2 mode of the AVR with an active cable connected to one or both of the AVRs outouts, you have to manually change the HDMI Output setting of the AVR to match which displays you are currently using.

Hope that helps.

-J.C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ a little more than what the OP asked for but a nice general summary none the less


----------



## Agent6er

Otto Pylot said:


> For runs up to 3m (9') and passive cables only, as specified in the original specification documents. The specs do allow for active cables but certifying them has proven to be difficult, as it was for HDMI 2.0.


So this is fake news then? It says any length

"All certified cables of any length must pass this new certification testing at an HDMI Authorized Test Center."

HDMI Forum press release link:

https://www.hdmi.org/download/pressFileId/104

https://www.twice.com/industry/ces/...ble-certification-assures-hdmi-2-1-8k-support

"All Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables"
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1578366376


----------



## john.odonnell01

jch2 said:


> That is an incorrect assumption. A passive cable has no chips. It's 19 pins to 19 wires to 19 pins, plus a shield around the whole thing (the shield is the +1 part of 19+1). There is no electrical connection or data passed over the shield, it is connected to the chassis ground of the components at each end and used to keep electromagnetic signals from inside the cable getting out and interfering with other cables and components, and keep electromagnetic signals from outside the cable (i.e. noise/interference) from from getting into the cable.
> 
> 
> 
> Active cables, whether they are copper, fiber, or a hybrid of both, have chips at both ends. The power only comes from the source (HDMI spec says the source provides the +5V, 50ma max on pin 18, except MHL capable HDMI ports which provide more current for device charging). If you have an AVR, then the AVR provides the +5V power on its HDMI output(s). And if your AVR has multiple HDMI outputs it most likely uses a detect of power draw on pin 18 to determine if the display/sink is on or in standby.
> 
> Active cables are also directional, because high speed data only goes one way, from source to sink. So, the transmitter chip is at the source end, and receiver chip is at the sink end for pins 1-12. The sink to source backfeed data (CEC, ARC, EDID, Ethernet) uses pins 13-19 and is low bandwidth and generally doesn't need any help, even at long distances. In an active cable, pins 1-12 are assisted by the chipset. In a fiber cable, these 12 lines become four 6gbps fiber lanes (3 for 18gbps data rate, and one for clock). In an active copper or hybrid fiber cable pins 13-19 are generally pass-through and copper, except the chips at both ends draw power from pin 18.
> 
> In an active cable this power draw is always on, and also passes through to the sink that also draws power from the +5v line when it is on. Most sources and AVRs use a power draw on pin 18 as a way to detect if the display is on. When the display is in standby the power draw on pin 18 is removed, allowing an AVR to know which of the connected displays are powered on. Active cables are always drawing power, so this causes issues with AVRs trying to output to multiple displays.
> 
> Let's say you have an AVR with two outputs, HDMI Out 1 and HDMI Out 2. You have a TV connected to HDMI Out 1 using a passive cable, and a projector connected to HDMI Out 2 using a longer active cable. When you try to just watch TV with the projector off, the power draw of the active cable makes the AVR think that both the TV and projector are on. The AVR will attempt to sync with the projector and fail (since it is in standby), this will cause the entire HDMI chain to fail, the signal to the TV will stop, and the audio to the AVR will stop, and then the AVR will reset the HDMI chain (maybe after 30 seconds) and try again. This happens with Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha AVRs, and probably others too but I haven't tested others. The only solution is that you can't use the automatic HDMI 1+2 mode of the AVR with an active cable connected to one or both of the AVRs outouts, you have to manually change the HDMI Output setting of the AVR to match which displays you are currently using.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> -J.C.


Thank you JC


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> So this is fake news then? It says any length
> 
> "All certified cables of any length must pass this new certification testing at an HDMI Authorized Test Center."
> 
> HDMI Forum press release link:
> 
> https://www.hdmi.org/download/pressFileId/104
> 
> https://www.twice.com/industry/ces/...ble-certification-assures-hdmi-2-1-8k-support
> 
> "All Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables"
> https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1578366376


The original HDMI 2.1 specification stated that the maximum cable length, at that time, would probably be 1m - 3m (3' - 9') for PASSIVE cables. If a cable mfr can exceed that length for passive, copper-based cables, and pass the ATC certification program, then they can affix the certification label and label the cable body as Ultra High Speed HDMI. Do keep in mind that the longer the cable, the thicker the wire gauge will be, especially to meet the 48Gbps bandwidth, so there will be loss of flexibility which can result in increased strain on the HDMI input. The same holds true for the HDMI 2.0 options sets and passive cables. That's one of the reasons HDMI.org limited the maximum certification length for HDMI 2.0 to 25'. There is no mention in the referenced articles about cable type, passive or active, unless I missed it. The assumption is that they are referring to passive cables because the current HDMI 2.0 certification program is for passive cables only. HMDI.org does not have a certification program in place yet for active cables.

If your cable run is going to be over 25', and you are planning on running the complete HDMI 2.1 option sets once devices and source material becomes available, then the best option at this point in time is a hybrid fiber cable. There is one coming to market soon that has met all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and has been tested by an ATC, but being as it's active it can not receive the certification label nor be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI.

There is going to be a lot of confusion because there are already cables in the marketplace that claim some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets and are labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (UHS). None of which are certified by an ATC following the latest guidelines as set forth by HDMI.org. Another point of confusion is that the connectors may be certified but it's unclear as to whether the physical cable has been tested as well to adequately handle the necessary bandwidth for all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets.


----------



## reechings

Any idea if this cable is any good?

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00V7NNVJG/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_9O4nEb1YVVD1W

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

reechings said:


> Any idea if this cable is any good?
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00V7NNVJG/ref=cm_sw_r_other_apa_i_9O4nEb1YVVD1W
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk



Try it. If it works then it's a good cable. No way to prove the marketing claims because there is no indication on how or who validated those claims. There are also no commercial devices or sources that can take advantage of all that HDMI 2.1 has to offer (video that requires 48Gbps) so it's anybody's guess as to how the cable will actually will perform in the wild. The cables are active, and at 30' you may need to use a voltage inserter to make sure that adequate power is being delivered to the sink end of the cable, because the chipsets in the cable may be more sensitive to power fluctuations at the HDMI input than cables that are rated for HDMI 2.0. As far as HDMI 2.0 goes, you won't get any better pq/aq with these cables that you will get from a comparable cable that is rated for HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps). For HDMI 2.0, the cables will probably work ok if installed correctly.



At 30', just make sure you install the cables in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cabling because chances are you will be upgrading your cables again in the future.


----------



## thapar

Otto Pylot said:


> Try it. If it works then it's a good cable. No way to prove the marketing claims because there is no indication on how or who validated those claims. There are also no commercial devices or sources that can take advantage of all that HDMI 2.1 has to offer (video that requires 48Gbps) so it's anybody's guess as to how the cable will actually will perform in the wild. The cables are active, and at 30' you may need to use a voltage inserter to make sure that adequate power is being delivered to the sink end of the cable, because the chipsets in the cable may be more sensitive to power fluctuations at the HDMI input than cables that are rated for HDMI 2.0. As far as HDMI 2.0 goes, you won't get any better pq/aq with these cables that you will get from a comparable cable that is rated for HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps). For HDMI 2.0, the cables will probably work ok if installed correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> At 30', just make sure you install the cables in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cabling because chances are you will be upgrading your cables again in the future.



Rest assured you'll find there's a great return policy for that item through Amazon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

thapar said:


> Rest assured you'll find there's a great return policy for that item through Amazon.



Quite often it's not so much the return policy as it is the hassle of removing, installing, removing, etc if one doesn't have easy access to those long cable runs or has not bothered to install their cabling in a conduit if it's an in-wall installation.


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## console

Running HDMI cable through ceiling for new projector install. 40' run from JVC NX7 to Marantz 8805. No conduit. Difficult but made easier by using existing vintage 2010 cables as pull cable. I would like to 'take a stab' at future proofing by using 48Gb/s cable. I'll be running 2 cables for redundancy. These are the 2 cables I'm considering. 

*Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed* HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 40ft, Black https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38629

and 

*RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 12m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps* [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box (40ft) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081SF1DKF?th=1

- I know these are not certified for 2.1 spec as protocol doesn't yet exist, but are there better 48Gb/s cable choices available? 

- is there a risk that these new cables will not be as reliable as proven and certified 4K 18Gb/s cables (for all current 4K HDR formats)? Or is the only risk in spending more money than necessary? 

- how does one actually reliably test the cable on site to see if it passes 4K60Hz / 4:4:4 / 8/10/12 bit - essentially all current requirements ... which one would do BEFORE snaking through ceiling. 

Thanks so much for help. I have to order these immediately.


----------



## torii

there is a seller on amazon that claims ****...


> How can this cable be hdmi 2.1 and be 16 feet long where no other hdmi 2.1 cable can exceed 10 feet in length without using fiber optics?
> Answer:
> Hi, we are the first ones proudly, if not the only one. This 16ft cable complies with HDMI 2.1 Compliance Test Specification (CTS). As soon as HDMI association have certification program for the HDMI 2.1, we will apply it in the first time. But we haven't heard from them about any plan of that currently.
> 
> In CES 201…  see more
> By Zeskit  Seller  on August 2, 2019


 I dont think they make long cables...I own 2 runs of 16ft and they have worked no issues and build quality is way better than normal...they thick cables...very thick and sturdy.


also they only cable I saw with 5 star review.


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## Otto Pylot

torii said:


> there is a seller on amazon that claims ****...
> I dont think they make long cables...I own 2 runs of 16ft and they have worked no issues and build quality is way better than normal...they thick cables...very thick and sturdy.
> 
> 
> also they only cable I saw with 5 star review.



I assume they are passive cables, given the heavy wire gauge (thickness). That would certainly help with signal integrity instead of using active technology, but the drawback would be loss of flexibility and the potential for increased strain on the HDMI input. However, a carefully laid out installation plan might mitigate a lot of those concerns. The connector ends of the Zeskit cables are tested by an ATC, which is good, but there is no mention of testing the entire product, cable and connectors. Using copper only will have its drawbacks for reliable video transmission at 48Gbps, once validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets are commonplace and source material is available that takes advantage of the bandwidth.


----------



## torii

Otto Pylot said:


> I assume they are passive cables, given the heavy wire gauge (thickness). That would certainly help with signal integrity instead of using active technology, but the drawback would be loss of flexibility and the potential for increased strain on the HDMI input. However, a carefully laid out installation plan might mitigate a lot of those concerns. The connector ends of the Zeskit cables are tested by an ATC, which is good, but there is no mention of testing the entire product, cable and connectors. Using copper only will have its drawbacks for reliable video transmission at 48Gbps, once validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets are commonplace and source material is available that takes advantage of the bandwidth.



they are rigid and hard to bend at connectors...but very solid....I dont think I could break honestly at connectors. very durable. I ran thru my wall for tv to source x2.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Running HDMI cable through ceiling for new projector install. 40' run from JVC NX7 to Marantz 8805. No conduit. Difficult but made easier by using existing vintage 2010 cables as pull cable. I would like to 'take a stab' at future proofing by using 48Gb/s cable. I'll be running 2 cables for redundancy.



The ONLY way to future proof is to run your cabling in a conduit if access to them is not easy. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so upgrading your cabling down the road is likely. Hence the use of a conduit. You can pull your new cables without a conduit but you'll need to be very careful not to damage the connector ends or have any sharp 90 degree bends. Even if you do get a cable that can truly transmit data at 48Gbps, HDMI 2.0 is standardized for 18Gbps so the 48Gbps is pretty much useless at this point in time. Keep in mind that it's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that dictate what is sent and how successfully. The cable is just the data pipe.



40' is long for any cable and 4k HDR. Out of the two you link to, I'd recommend the Ruipro cable if the 8k is still available. It is an active cable and there are reports of some projectors not playing nice with any of the hybrid fiber cables (not just Ruipro). The problem is probably due to inconsistent output current at the HDMI input. Active cables are designed in most cases to draw 50mA of current but the demands of HDMI 2.1 are such that the current fluctuations probably require tighter tolerances, which can vary from mfr to mfr. A power inserter may be useful in situations like that. Hybrid fiber cables will more than likely be the cables of choice going forward because copper only is just about at its limits with the current and upcoming video standards.


----------



## Otto Pylot

torii said:


> they are rigid and hard to bend at connectors...but very solid....I dont think I could break honestly at connectors. very durable. I ran thru my wall for tv to source x2.



That's good. Like I said, a carefully laid out installation plan is the key for those thick cables. I would suggest supporting the cables at the connector ends in case over time the weight starts to strain the pins in either the input or the connector.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> 40' is long for any cable and 4k HDR. Out of the two you link to, *I'd recommend the Ruipro cable if the 8k is still available*. It is an active cable and there are reports of some projectors not playing nice with any of the hybrid fiber cables (not just Ruipro). The problem is probably due to inconsistent output current at the HDMI input. Active cables are designed in most cases to draw 50mA of current but the demands of HDMI 2.1 are such that the current fluctuations probably require tighter tolerances, which can vary from mfr to mfr. A power inserter may be useful in situations like that. Hybrid fiber cables will more than likely be the cables of choice going forward because copper only is just about at its limits with the current and upcoming video standards.


Thanks Otto. Too late for me to run conduit. Thanks for advice on Ruipro vs. Monoprice, especially since Ruipro is $50 less. 

What about my other questions.

- is there a risk that these new 48Gb/s cables will not be as reliable as proven and certified 4K 18Gb/s cables (for all current 4K HDR formats)? Or is the only risk in spending more money than necessary? 

- how does one actually reliably test the cable on site to see if it passes 4K60Hz / 4:4:4 / 8/10/12 bit - essentially all current requirements ... which one would do BEFORE snaking through ceiling.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

console said:


> Thanks Otto. Too late for me to run conduit. Thanks for advice on Ruipro vs. Monoprice, especially since Ruipro is $50 less.
> 
> What about my other questions.
> 
> - is there a risk that these new 48Gb/s cables will not be as reliable as proven and certified 4K 18Gb/s cables (for all current 4K HDR formats)? Or is the only risk in spending more money than necessary?
> 
> - how does one actually reliably test the cable on site to see if it passes 4K60Hz / 4:4:4 / 8/10/12 bit - essentially all current requirements ... which one would do BEFORE snaking through ceiling.


I am not optimistic 48 GBPS will ever be doable or meaningful. I think it is a chimera created by a standards committee attempting to establish a direction that will produce noticeable improvements. If wishes were horses beggars would ride.

If you buy the cables you can lay them out on the floor between your blu-ray player and display, set the player to 4K 10 or 12bit, press play and press the information display on your player. Years ago I could do this in a program called MPC-HC. You will need to research how to do this now.

Otherwise abandon this bone headed idea, wait two years and check again to see if 48 GBPS equipment and content exists and is reported to work well. You will not miss anything by waiting.

Now, ignore this realistic/pessimistic post and do whatever you want to do.


----------



## jch2

console said:


> how does one actually reliably test the cable on site to see if it passes 4K60Hz / 4:4:4 / 8/10/12 bit - essentially all current requirements ... which one would do BEFORE snaking through ceiling.


If you have an Apple TV 4k, set its desktop resolution to 4k60 HDR, and set it to use 4:2:2 Chroma. That will max out your cable just displaying the desktop.

If not, you can use a HTPC with 4k60 resolution and 12-bit HDR 4:2:2 enabled.

Some 4k UHD players can force 4k60 4:2:2 as well, so you could see if your disc player can do that.

If not, get an Apple TV 4k. It's the only streamer that lets you force 4:2:2 and reliably test 4k HDR high bandwidth modes.

NOTE: with HDMI 2.0, 4k60 10-bit or 12-bit, 4:2:2 chroma is as high as you can go. 4k60 10-bit and 12-bit with 4:4:4 chroma is outside the 18gbps HDMI 2.0 limit. So, 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 is the top-end of what you can test with HDMI 2.0, and that's about 16.3gbps. And you can do that with an Apple TV 4k.

However, at 4k24 you can get 12-bit and 4:4:4, but that's a lower bandwidth, 9.8gbps. You can get this mode from many streamers and disc players.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Thanks Otto. Too late for me to run conduit. Thanks for advice on Ruipro vs. Monoprice, especially since Ruipro is $50 less.
> 
> What about my other questions.
> 
> - is there a risk that these new 48Gb/s cables will not be as reliable as proven and certified 4K 18Gb/s cables (for all current 4K HDR formats)? Or is the only risk in spending more money than necessary?
> 
> - how does one actually reliably test the cable on site to see if it passes 4K60Hz / 4:4:4 / 8/10/12 bit - essentially all current requirements ... which one would do BEFORE snaking through ceiling.


Most folks never considered conduit because it really wasn't needed prior to 4k HDR, at least not to the extent that it is today. If you plan on staying in your place for a long time, and continue to upgrade your HTS as the new bells and whistles become available, getting together with an experienced electrical contractor will pay off in the long run. Conduit can be run down inside, non-load bearing walls without too much difficulty or opening up of the walls. I've had it done. If you have a two-story house that becomes difficult but not impossible.

That being said, I agree with @Postmoderndesign, forget about 48Gbps for now. There is nothing in the foreseeable future that is going to require that bandwidth and if there is, it will probably be the gamer platforms first. Any "48Gbps" cable you purchase now will not be anymore reliable than a well made, certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable (up to 25'). Everything is still centered around HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) and only a few devices are coming to market this year that are ready for any or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, supposedly. So unless you are willing to upgrade ALL of your HDMI connected devices to what is supposed to be fully HDMI 2.1 compatible, you're still stuck at 18Gbps because that's all the current chipsets can handle and are configured for.

Unless you can find a YouTube vid somewhere that is accurate for what what you are curious about (4k60Hz/4:4:4/8/10/12 bit) there is no way to "validate" any cable. Besides, there are no 12-bit panels so you wouldn't be able to test that anyway.

Forget about what the marketeers are telling you you need to have. Stick with HDMI 2.0 for now but do plan for the future. And the future being conduit and a hybrid fiber cable. Again, no cable is guaranteed to work in all setups so all you can do is try. Lay what ever you purchase out on the floor and test it thoroughly to make sure that it meets your needs and expectations. If it works, and then doesn't after installation, something happened when you snaked it thru the walls.


----------



## console

Postmoderndesign said:


> I am not optimistic 48 GBPS will ever be doable or meaningful. I think it is a chimera created by a standards committee attempting to establish a direction that will produce noticeable improvements. If wishes were horses beggars would ride.
> 
> If you buy the cables you can lay them out on the floor between your blu-ray player and display, set the player to 4K 10 or 12bit, press play and press the information display on your player. Years ago I could do this in a program called MPC-HC. You will need to research how to do this now.
> 
> Otherwise abandon this bone headed idea, wait two years and check again to see if 48 GBPS equipment and content exists and is reported to work well. You will not miss anything by waiting.
> 
> Now, ignore this realistic/pessimistic post and do whatever you want to do.


I agree with everything you say - except the part about waiting 2 years because I don't want to have to run cables again in 2 years. So therefore, I will ignore your realistic/pessimistic post and take a shot in the dark now and run the Ruipro 48Gb/s cable along with a reliable, certified hybrid 18Gb/s cable. Maybe, in the far future, it the Ruipro 48 will work by some fortuitous accident.


----------



## console

jch2 said:


> If you have an Apple TV 4k, set its desktop resolution to 4k60 HDR, and set it to use 4:2:2 Chroma. That will max out your cable just displaying the desktop.
> 
> If not, you can use a HTPC with 4k60 resolution and 12-bit HDR 4:2:2 enabled.
> 
> Some 4k UHD players can force 4k60 4:2:2 as well, so you could see if your disc player can do that.
> 
> If not, get an Apple TV 4k. It's the only streamer that lets you force 4:2:2 and reliably test 4k HDR high bandwidth modes.
> 
> NOTE: with HDMI 2.0, 4k60 10-bit or 12-bit, 4:2:2 chroma is as high as you can go. 4k60 10-bit and 12-bit with 4:4:4 chroma is outside the 18gbps HDMI 2.0 limit. So, 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2 is the top-end of what you can test with HDMI 2.0, and that's about 16.3gbps. And you can do that with an Apple TV 4k.
> 
> However, at 4k24 you can get 12-bit and 4:4:4, but that's a lower bandwidth, 9.8gbps. You can get this mode from many streamers and disc players.


Extraordinary advice! Thank you. I will do the Apple test first. Of course this means at least 2 cables have to work. The 40' one going from Marantz AVP to Projector and the 12' one going from AppleTV4k to Marantz. Is there any issue mixing hybrid and non-hybrid cables - or for that matter - copper 18Gb/s and 48Gb/s cables? 

I also can set my OPPO 203 to force UHD60Hz / 4:4:4 / 12 bit and see what happens on display end. I tried this with my existing SONY 600ES PJ and it worked which doesn't make sense since it can only accept 10.2Gb/s. But it must be negotiating the signal down to a level it accepts. So to me this test is invalid.


----------



## jch2

console said:


> Extraordinary advice! Thank you. I will do the Apple test first.


You are welcome. Hopefully it works for you. 



console said:


> Of course this means at least 2 cables have to work. The 40' one going from Marantz AVP to Projector and the 12' one going from AppleTV4k to Marantz. Is there any issue mixing hybrid and non-hybrid cables - or for that matter - copper 18Gb/s and 48Gb/s cables?


No problem mixing cables. A high quality certified premium passive HDMI cable is always preferred over an active one (less expensive, fewer issues, etc). If you can use a passive cable at the length you need, then use it. Only go active for long runs where you have to. 



console said:


> I also can set my OPPO 203 to force UHD60Hz / 4:4:4 / 12 bit and see what happens on display end. I tried this with my existing SONY 600ES PJ and it worked which doesn't make sense since it can only accept 10.2Gb/s. But it must be negotiating the signal down to a level it accepts. So to me this test is invalid.


Yes, even though you forced the Oppo to that mode, it probably negotiated something lower that the Sony can handle, like 4k60 / 4:2:0 / 8-bit or 10-bit (both of this fit in the 10.2gbps rate).


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> Most folks never considered conduit because it really wasn't needed prior to 4k HDR, at least not to the extent that it is today. If you plan on staying in your place for a long time, and continue to upgrade your HTS as the new bells and whistles become available, getting together with an experienced electrical contractor will pay off in the long run. Conduit can be run down inside, non-load bearing walls without too much difficulty or opening up of the walls. I've had it done. If you have a two-story house that becomes difficult but not impossible.
> 
> That being said, I agree with @Postmoderndesign, forget about 48Gbps for now. There is nothing in the foreseeable future that is going to require that bandwidth and if there is, it will probably be the gamer platforms first. Any "48Gbps" cable you purchase now will not be anymore reliable than a well made, certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable (up to 25'). Everything is still centered around HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) and only a few devices are coming to market this year that are ready for any or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, supposedly. So unless you are willing to upgrade ALL of your HDMI connected devices to what is supposed to be fully HDMI 2.1 compatible, you're still stuck at 18Gbps because that's all the current chipsets can handle and are configured for.
> 
> Unless you can find a YouTube vid somewhere that is accurate for what what you are curious about (4k60Hz/4:4:4/8/10/12 bit) there is no way to "validate" any cable. Besides, there are no 12-bit panels so you wouldn't be able to test that anyway.
> 
> Forget about what the marketeers are telling you you need to have. Stick with HDMI 2.0 for now but do plan for the future. And the future being conduit and a hybrid fiber cable. Again, no cable is guaranteed to work in all setups so all you can do is try. Lay what ever you purchase out on the floor and test it thoroughly to make sure that it meets your needs and expectations. If it works, and then doesn't after installation, something happened when you snaked it thru the walls.


Again your advice is perfect, but a 40' Ruipro "48Gb/s" cable only costs $30-40 more than 40' Ruipro 18Gb/s cable, I don't see a downside to installing it now. I assume it will pass anything a certified premium 18Gb/s cable will pass. No? It comes with bragging rights and some (small) hope for future upgrade compatibility. No?


----------



## console

jch2 said:


> Yes, even though you forced the Oppo to that mode, it probably negotiated something lower that the Sony can handle, like 4k60 / 4:2:0 / 8-bit or 10-bit (both of this fit in the 10.2gbps rate).


So doesn't that make this test procedure invalid. Wouldn't a newer JVC also "negotiate something lower", so I'll never know if the cable is truly passing 18Gb/s or if Projector is negotiating.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Again your advice is perfect, but a 40' Ruipro "48Gb/s" cable only costs $30-40 more than 40' Ruipro 18Gb/s cable, I don't see a downside to installing it now. I assume it will pass anything a certified premium 18Gb/s cable will pass. No? It comes with bragging rights and some (small) hope for future upgrade compatibility. No?


I am currently using the Ruipro4k cables for short runs. They work perfectly for 4k HDR (Dolby Vision and HDR10) and they "pass" the ATV4k HDMI connection test. I don't care about 4:4:4 chroma because nothing is mastered with that (at least not movies) so unless you're connecting a computer to your panel and using that as a monitor, I wouldn't be concerned with that. Gaming may be a different issue.

You can use different "version" of HDMI cables as long as you don't daisy chain them. A receiver in-between is fine. Just keep in mind that if the cables aren't the same then you will be limited to the in-common bandwidth capability/performance. Similar to connecting an HDMI 2.0 chipset to an HDMI 1.4 chipset. You'll be limited to whatever protocols the HDMI 1.4 chipset is capable of.

Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC following HDMI.org established protocols and instrumentation. They just can't receive the Certification of Compliance or QR label like the passive Premium High Speed HDMI cables can because of the HDMI.org ruling on active cables. I have evaluated the Ruipro8k cables but am not allowed to post my findings yet. If the 8k cables are still available, they should come with a voltage inserter in case you need it.

I highly recommend the Ruipro cables but as the last cable you will need to purchase for the next few years I wouldn't bank on it. As the bugs get worked out with HDMI 2.1 long runs and the power requirements, there may still be further fine tuning of the chipsets in the connector ends which may require a new, updated cable. This holds true for any hybrid fiber cable mfr.

Just remember that whatever the cable specifications state, they have been determined in a test environment and not on consumer equipment with differing versions of the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, age of equipment, installations, etc. And unless you have sophisticated instrumentation like the SL-881 6G HDMI/MHL Audio and Video Generator (AVG), the SL-8800 Plus Protocol Analyzer HDCP 2.2/2.3, etc there is no way that you can really test the cables other than connecting your devices and seeing if you get reliable SDR, HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10, HLG) and HD audio (Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, lossless Atmos, etc). ARC/eARC has its own issues at long lengths so that's another potential issue to contend with.


----------



## jch2

console said:


> jch2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, even though you forced the Oppo to that mode, it probably negotiated something lower that the Sony can handle, like 4k60 / 4:2:0 / 8-bit or 10-bit (both of this fit in the 10.2gbps rate).
> 
> 
> 
> So doesn't that make this test procedure invalid. Wouldn't a newer JVC also "negotiate something lower", so I'll never know if the cable is truly passing 18Gb/s or if Projector is negotiating.
Click to expand...

You won't be able to test up to 18gbps transmission without both a source and a display that can do it. You won't be able to test >10.2gpbs modes with your Sony but will with a projector that can handle the high bandwidth modes.

Most people struggle to find a high bandwidth source once they have a display that can do it. Thus, my suggestion for the Apple TV 4k.

The projector won't "negotiate something else" if it is capable of the mode that the source wants to use. Basically, the display sends the source a list of modes in EDID, and the source picks one. So, there's really no negotiation. The only real logic is if your source's UI lets you pick a display mode that isn't in the display's EDID mode list (like your Oppo does). Then the source has to do something different.

The only way to know for sure what resolution, frame rate, bit depth, chroma sampling, and color space you are transmitting on the HDMI cable is to have the display confirm what it is receiving and/or outputting, maybe through an info menu. I know Epsons show all that info. I don't know how JVC or Sony works.


----------



## crbdrb

*Ruipro 8k HDMI*

Well, I bought several of the Ruipro 8k fiber HDMI cables, and I cannot get any of them to pass 4K HDR. Roku as the source, when connected directly to the TV, autodetects 4k60HDR perfectly every time. I cannot get anything better than 1080p through the 33’ or the 50’ Ruipro 8k. Not sure what to do next.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> Well, I bought several of the Ruipro 8k fiber HDMI cables, and I cannot get any of them to pass 4K HDR. Roku as the source, when connected directly to the TV, autodetects 4k60HDR perfectly every time. I cannot get anything better than 1080p through the 33’ or the 50’ Ruipro 8k. Not sure what to do next.



Contact Ruipro. I know they had some issues with the first release of their 8k cables. Compatibility with some devices was the problem. Did the cables include a voltage inserter? I do know that they are working on a fix. I use their 4k cables at short lengths and they work just fine for 4k HDR from my ATV4k -> receiver -> C8.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> Contact Ruipro. I know they had some issues with the first release of their 8k cables. Compatibility with some devices was the problem. Did the cables include a voltage inserter? I do know that they are working on a fix. I use their 4k cables at short lengths and they work just fine for 4k HDR from my ATV4k -> receiver -> C8.


They did include the voltage inserter. There were no instructions included so I wasn’t sure what end to use it on - I tried both ends. All 5 cables ((4) 33’ and (1) 50’) are presenting the same. I am running direct to the TV (no receiver) for my testing. I believe I have done everything possible to narrow it down to the cable, even using a short 6’ copper HDMI cable to confirm the Roku still passes 4K. 

I will certainly call Ruipro before I return all of these.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> They did include the voltage inserter. There were no instructions included so I wasn’t sure what end to use it on - I tried both ends. All 5 cables ((4) 33’ and (1) 50’) are presenting the same. I am running direct to the TV (no receiver) for my testing. I believe I have done everything possible to narrow it down to the cable, even using a short 6’ copper HDMI cable to confirm the Roku still passes 4K.
> 
> I will certainly call Ruipro before I return all of these.


Well this is not funny. I literally just ordered 2 x 8k/48Gbps Ruipro cables (33' and 40') for new projector install this Tues. I also ordered their (Ruipro) 18Gbps cable in 40' length as a back up. I think I'll now order the Monoprice version in both 48Gbps and 18Gbps variety as additional backups as this is not a good report! 

Can you tell me again in some more detail how exactly you tested the cables? Thank you for reporting your experience.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Well this is not funny. I literally just ordered 2 x 8k/48Gbps Ruipro cables (33' and 40') for new projector install this Tues. I also ordered their (Ruipro) 18Gbps cable in 40' length as a back up. I think I'll now order the Monoprice version in both 48Gbps and 18Gbps variety as additional backups as this is not a good report!
> 
> Can you tell me again in some more detail how exactly you tested the cables? Thank you for reporting your experience.


It is unfortunate that the only 4K HDR source I have on hand is the Roku. I certainly would never condemn a cable based on that. However, it is disappointing that 5 of these are doing the same using that source. 

My testing is simple. Roku with cheap 5 year old 6’ copper cable = Roku detects and passes 4k60HDR on a 2019 Samsung 4KHDR TV. All three HDMI ports on the TV have the same results.

Roku with all 5 of the Ruipro 8K fiber cables = Roku does not detect 4K. Does not detect HDR. But does detect HDCP 2.2. 

Using the same TV and all 3 HDMI ports. No receiver. No external switcher. Just the Roku and the TV.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> They did include the voltage inserter. There were no instructions included so I wasn’t sure what end to use it on - I tried both ends. All 5 cables ((4) 33’ and (1) 50’) are presenting the same. I am running direct to the TV (no receiver) for my testing. I believe I have done everything possible to narrow it down to the cable, even using a short 6’ copper HDMI cable to confirm the Roku still passes 4K.
> 
> I will certainly call Ruipro before I return all of these.


The voltage inserter should be connected to the Source end, so in your case that would be the Roku. It is very unusual that 5, new cables would not work. 33' and 50' is long but most of the time the cables work.

I would try the Ruipro4k cables because you really don't need the 8k cables yet. Your devices are standardized around HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) so that's the best you can do at this point in time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Well this is not funny. I literally just ordered 2 x 8k/48Gbps Ruipro cables (33' and 40') for new projector install this Tues. I also ordered their (Ruipro) 18Gbps cable in 40' length as a back up. I think I'll now order the Monoprice version in both 48Gbps and 18Gbps variety as additional backups as this is not a good report!
> 
> Can you tell me again in some more detail how exactly you tested the cables? Thank you for reporting your experience.


As I mentioned to the other poster, why do you need a 48Gbps cable? There are no consumer devices that can send data at that speed nor is there any source material that requires that kind of bandwidth. I would be surprised if the Ruipro4k cable doesn't work for you.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> It is unfortunate that the only 4K HDR source I have on hand is the Roku. I certainly would never condemn a cable based on that. However, it is disappointing that 5 of these are doing the same using that source.
> 
> My testing is simple. Roku with cheap 5 year old 6’ copper cable = Roku detects and passes 4k60HDR on a 2019 Samsung 4KHDR TV. All three HDMI ports on the TV have the same results.
> 
> Roku with all 5 of the Ruipro 8K fiber cables = Roku does not detect 4K. Does not detect HDR. But does detect HDCP 2.2.
> 
> Using the same TV and all 3 HDMI ports. No receiver. No external switcher. Just the Roku and the TV.


I'm curious why you chose to purchase 4 x 33' and 1 x 50' 8K/48Gbps HDMI cables. I wonder if a Ruipro 4K/18Gbps cable would work on your situation. 

But you have given me a very good idea. My 8K/48Gbps Ruipro cables will arrive tomorrow. I don't have to wait for my projector to arrive on Tuesday. I can test them now between my ATV4k (and Roku Ultra and OPPO203) and SONY 85" TV and see if it passes UHD60Hz / 4:4:4 / DolbyVision, etc. I'll report results.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> As I mentioned to the other poster, *why do you need a 48Gbps cable?* There are no consumer devices that can send data at that speed nor is there any source material that requires that kind of bandwidth. I would be surprised if the Ruipro4k cable doesn't work for you.


As previously stated, the 48Gbps cable does not cost much more than 18Gbps cable, so why not take a shot in the dark against future obsolescence. Before the recent post, I would have assumed that the 48Gbps cable could do everything the 18Gbps cable could do. 

And, before you say it, I agree that the best defense against future obsolescence in difficult cable runs (like my 40' run through my ceiling) is conduit.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> As I mentioned to the other poster, why do you need a 48Gbps cable? There are no consumer devices that can send data at that speed nor is there any source material that requires that kind of bandwidth. I would be surprised if the Ruipro4k cable doesn't work for you.


I have just completed a new house build including a media room - Most of which I built myself. I will be pulling through conduit. However, in my situation, that is still a very labor intensive task. “8K” cables are for sale so why not spend $900 today instead of $800 today and $800 a few years from now while saving me the trouble of a second cable pull. 

I actually waited 4 months so I could buy these instead of the 4k version when I learned these were going to be available.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> As previously stated, the 48Gbps cable does not cost much more than 18Gbps cable, so why not take a shot in the dark against future obsolescence. Before the recent post, I would have assumed that the 48Gbps cable could do everything the 18Gbps cable could do.
> 
> And, before you say it, I agree that the best defense against future obsolescence in difficult cable runs (like my 40' run through my ceiling) is conduit.


FWIW, I was evaluating the Ruipro8k cables, and while they did work on my system, there were some other issues so I discontinued my evaluation until Ruipro got the bugs worked out. I reinstalled the 4k cables and they worked just as good as my old BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables. I think this batch of Ruipro8k cables wasn't quite ready for prime time as there are some compatibility issues with certain devices.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> I'm curious why you chose to purchase 4 x 33' and 1 x 50' 8K/48Gbps HDMI cables. I wonder if a Ruipro 4K/18Gbps cable would work on your situation.
> 
> But you have given me a very good idea. My 8K/48Gbps Ruipro cables will arrive tomorrow. I don't have to wait for my projector to arrive on Tuesday. I can test them now between my ATV4k (and Roku Ultra and OPPO203) and SONY 85" TV and see if it passes UHD60Hz / 4:4:4 / DolbyVision, etc. I'll report results.


Yes, please report. I am very interested. Assuming you got yours from Amazon and you are in the US, we will have cables from the same stock. I need that many cables because i have my sources in the media room but the amplifiers and video distribution are in an adjacent room that houses the equipment for the house.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> I have just completed a new house build including a media room - Most of which I built myself. I will be pulling through conduit. However, in my situation, that is still a very labor intensive task. “8K” cables are for sale so why not spend $900 today instead of $800 today and $800 a few years from now while saving me the trouble of a second cable pull.
> 
> I actually waited 4 months so I could buy these instead of the 4k version when I learned these were going to be available.


We are starting to see compatibility reports with this batch of Ruipro8k cables so keep that in mind. Even if they do work for you, a few years from now whatever new video technology is available will more than likely require new cables. At least you have a conduit so you are way ahead of the game . Ruipro is working on the compatibility issues.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, I was evaluating the Ruipro8k cables, and while they did work on my system, there were some other issues so I discontinued my evaluation until Ruipro got the bugs worked out. I reinstalled the 4k cables and they worked just as good as my old BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables. I think this batch of Ruipro8k cables wasn't quite ready for prime time as there are some compatibility issues with certain devices.


I appreciate your insight. I will contact Ruipro, but I am certainly not interested in being a paying beta tester for cables of all things. I will figure this out before the return window closes for sure. I am very interested in what the other poster (console) finds with their cables. I can wait a bit longer for a second batch if needed or possibly just screw it and put in the sweat to install the older version.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> I appreciate your insight. I will contact Ruipro, but I am certainly not interested in being a paying beta tester for cables of all things. I will figure this out before the return window closes for sure. I am very interested in what the other poster (console) finds with their cables. I can wait a bit longer for a second batch if needed or possibly just screw it and put in the sweat to install the older version.


I completely understand about not wanting to be a beta tester and paying for the "privilege". Ruipro asked me to evaluate their 4k and 8k cables so my "cost" was time only. I have contacted them about these issues as well but yeah, do contact them as well.


----------



## jch2

For now I'd just give up on HDMI 2.1 / 8k / 48gbps cables and just pull a tried and true HDMI 2.0 / 4k / 18gpbs active copper cable: the Blue Jeans Cable (BJC) Series-3A. I have yet to read a report of BJC not working after getting it, having one fail because of pulling/installing it, or failing after years of use. That's what I did. I used the 40' length and It pulled through just fine and it works flawlessly at even the highest bandwidth mode: 4k60 12-bit 4:2:2.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> Yes, please report. I am very interested. Assuming you got yours from Amazon and you are in the US, we will have cables from the same stock. I need that many cables because i have my sources in the media room but the amplifiers and video distribution are in an adjacent room that houses the equipment for the house.


Yes from Amazon. Yes from NY. I'll be testing Ruipro 48/Gbps and 18Gbps cables at 40' and 33' lengths using a variety of sources. May not get to this until Saturday afternoon. 

Very disheartening to hear from Otto that there are these early compatibility issues. One would think Ruipro has the facilities to fully test their cable before putting it for sale on Amazon.


----------



## mrtickleuk

console said:


> Very disheartening to hear from Otto that there are these early compatibility issues. Especially since he recommended Ruipro products in general even if not these "8K" cables specifically. One would think Ruipro has the facilities to fully test their cable before putting it for sale on Amazon.


I think you need to cut them a lot more slack, and consider how long it's taken the HDMI2.1 certification process to get to where it is now, and count how many real world physical HDMI2.1 source devices are currently on sale and actually available to buy which output 48Gbps picture modes


----------



## console

mrtickleuk said:


> I think you need to cut them a lot more slack, and consider how long it's taken the HDMI2.1 certification process to get to where it is now, and count how many real world physical HDMI2.1 source devices are currently on sale and actually available to buy which output 48Gbps picture modes


Not really. While I understand your very good point about 2.1/48Gbps, I'm speaking specifically about* backwards compatibility* to 2.0/18Gbps devices and sources. They should at least get that right.


----------



## mrtickleuk

console said:


> Not really. While I understand your very good point about 2.1/48Gbps, I'm speaking specifically about* backwards compatibility* to 2.0/18Gbps devices and sources. They should at least get that right.


Ok, I take your point about the lower bandwidth modes, sure. But you admitted, these are early compatibility issues. It's the first generation of HDMI2.1 chipsets (which are also designed to be backwards compatible and operate in limited "HDMI 2.0 modes"). There are always going to be teething problems, it's the nature of this business and all technology in general. So there's no reason to be disheartened - unless you had unrealistic expectations IMHO. That is why I said and still say that you need to cut them more slack, and I really do think this.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Not really. While I understand your very good point about 2.1/48Gbps, I'm speaking specifically about* backwards compatibility* to 2.0/18Gbps devices and sources. They should at least get that right.


I agree. I give you money, you in turn give me a working product. But I will reiterate that my test with a single source device does not completely discount the product. I am going to buy an AppleTV to test this weekend. 

I have learned just a bit more:


The Roku will auto-detect 1080p only through the Ruipro 8k cable.
The same Roku on the same TV on the same HDMI ports will auto-detect 4k with several different 6’-8’ cheap copper HDMI cables. 
I can now force the Roku to display 4K60HDR through the Ruipro 8k cable. The TVs info button tells me that the TV is supposedly displaying in 4KHDR.
After I have forced the Roku into 4k settings, the Netflix app on the Roku will NOT playback in 4k. This aspect could in fact be a Roku issue (running the latest firmware).

The fact remains that this cable _fails_ my Roku’s 4K test. How reliable is the Roku’s test? I have no idea.


----------



## console

mrtickleuk said:


> Ok, I take your point about the lower bandwidth modes, sure. But you admitted, these are early compatibility issues. It's the first generation of HDMI2.1 chipsets (which are also designed to be backwards compatible and operate in limited "HDMI 2.0 modes"). There are always going to be teething problems, it's the nature of this business and all technology in general. So there's no reason to be disheartened - unless you had unrealistic expectations IMHO. *That is why I said and still say that you need to cut them more slack, and I really do think this. *


Slack cut for future compatibility. No slack cut for backwards compatibility.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> I agree. I give you money, you in turn give me a working product. But I will reiterate that my test with a single source device does not completely discount the product. I am going to buy an AppleTV to test this weekend.
> 
> I have learned just a bit more:
> 
> 
> The Roku will auto-detect 1080p only through the Ruipro 8k cable.
> The same Roku on the same TV on the same HDMI ports will auto-detect 4k with several different 6’-8’ cheap copper HDMI cables.
> I can now force the Roku to display 4K60HDR through the Ruipro 8k cable. The TVs info button tells me that the TV is supposedly displaying in 4KHDR.
> After I have forced the Roku into 4k settings, the Netflix app on the Roku will NOT playback in 4k. This aspect could in fact be a Roku issue (running the latest firmware).
> 
> The fact remains that this cable _fails_ my Roku’s 4K test. How reliable is the Roku’s test? I have no idea.


Good move getting ATV4K for testing. And in general, I like have both Roku and Apple. Same program stream from different sources look and sound differently. To my knowledge Roku doesn't have DolbyVision and often a program will look better with HDR10 (and vice versa).


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Good move getting ATV4K for testing. And in general, I like have both Roku and Apple. Same program stream from different sources look and sound differently. To my knowledge Roku doesn't have DolbyVision and often a program will look better with HDR10 (and vice versa).


The good news, by the end of the weekend, we will have tested 2 Rokus, an AppleTV, and a 4k blu-ray player. 

Do you happen to have a receiver capable of passing 4k? I am very interested in the cables ability to run on both sides of a receiver.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> The good news, by the end of the weekend, we will have tested 2 Rokus, an AppleTV, and a 4k blu-ray player.
> 
> *Do you happen to have a receiver capable of passing 4k?* I am very interested in the cables ability to run on both sides of a receiver.


Yes. Marantz AV8805. I planned on testing all sources run THROUGH AV Processor (8805) vs. direct from sources to TV - because that's the way I'm hooked up. The HDMI cable I am currently using to connect all sources (ATV, Roku, OPPO) to 8805 and then 8805 to TV (SONY 85x900f) is Key Digital 6' and 9' (see attached). Everything currently works through this cable. When I receive 33' and 40' Ruipro 8K/48Gbps cables I will insert them between 8805 and SONY TV and see what happens.

Of course, when JVC NX7 projector arrives, I'll have to retest on that device before snaking cables through my ceiling 

Why is this so complicated? It's 2020. Shouldn't everything work by now?


----------



## console

console said:


> Yes. Marantz AV8805. I planned on testing all sources run THROUGH AV Processor (8805) vs. direct from sources to TV - because that's the way I'm hooked up. The HDMI cable I am currently using to connect all sources (ATV, Roku, OPPO) to 8805 and then 8805 to TV (SONY 85x900f) is Key Digital 6' and 9' (see attached). Everything currently works through this cable. When I receive 33' and 40' Ruipro 8K/48Gbps cables I will insert them between 8805 and SONY TV and see what happens.


Attached are the results of the "tests" I am running (from ATV, Roku and OPPO) with existing cables and will run with Ruipros (when they arrive).


----------



## crbdrb

One more bit of information. Amazon Prime Video is unique when compared to Netflix and Disney+. For Amazon Prime Video, 4K UHD titles are a completely different selection from the HD version of the same title. Meaning, you have to pick either the HD version or the UHD version to watch. Netflix and a Disney+ are different - You choose the title, and those apps determine what resolution you can view, automatically picking the highest resolution available to you. 

For Amazon, on the Roku where I forced 4K, with the Ruipro cable, I can select and view the 4K version of titles. And it looks significantly better than the HD version - There is no way for me to confirm other than visually that I am aware. 

My point is, at this moment, it appears that the cable can deliver 4KUHD, but the Netflix and Disney+ apps depend completely on the Roku auto-detect. Netflix and Disney+ will not utilize a resolution that has been forced on the Roku. I can only assume that is a Roku software issue.

But still, why won’t the Roku auto-detect 4K capabilities through the Ruipro...


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Attached are the results of the "tests" I am running (from ATV, Roku and OPPO) with existing cables and will run with Ruipros (when they arrive).



FWIW, I run the Ruipro cables to my receiver and from my receiver with no issues at the settings I use on my ATV4k:


Enable Dolby Vision
4k SDR @60Hz
YCbCr 4:2:0
Match Frame Rate and Dynamic Range enabled


The receiver (Yamaha A-780) is set for pass though video so any processing is handled by the C8. PQ is beautiful and as it should be depending on the source material. The ATV4k HDMI test always passes.


Maybe you should start with the ATV4k settings above and if that works, then start changing options (4:2:0 to 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 for example) and see where the failure begins. Do the same thing on the Roku (I don't have one to test) and see if the failure happens at the same settings. It may be that either the tv or the receiver doesn't know how to handle certain settings and just does the best it can and chokes.



And yes, HDMI should not be this complicated but this is the on-going mess that HDMI.org has gotten us into. To say it sucks is an understatement.


I talked to Ruipro this morning and they are very well aware of the compatibility issue with some of their 8k cables so email their support. The cables do have a Lifetime Warranty and they will replace the cables once the new 8k versions are tested and ready. They had to shutdown their operations due to the Coronavirus epidemic (Government ordered) but have just received notification that they can resume operations.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Postmoderndesign said:


> I am not optimistic 48 GBPS will ever be doable or meaningful. I think it is a chimera created by a standards committee attempting to establish a direction that will produce noticeable improvements. If wishes were horses beggars would ride.
> 
> If you buy the cables you can lay them out on the floor between your blu-ray player and display, set the player to 4K 10 or 12bit, press play and press the information display on your player. Years ago I could do this in a program called MPC-HC. You will need to research how to do this now.
> 
> Otherwise abandon this bone headed idea, wait two years and check again to see if 48 GBPS equipment and content exists and is reported to work well. You will not miss anything by waiting.
> 
> Now, ignore this realistic/pessimistic post and do whatever you want to do.


FULL DISCLOSURE
Actually since 2018 I have and use 3 Belkin Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables 2 meter length to connect my OPPO UDP 203 player, Yamaha TSR 7810 AVR and LG Oled 65 e6p TV which I use to play all flavors of HDMI 2.0 including 4K UltraHD including Dolby Vision discs with Dolby Atmos and other advanced audio. I am sure I am passing up to 16-18 GBPS. These are short copper cables so I also have no experience with long cables or active cables or fiber cables.

I still do not know if my display will show HDMI 2.1 48GBPS and I doubt it would.

I have no objection to buying cables advertised as HDMI 2.1 especially when it is not much more expensive than HDMI 2.0 cables.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, I run the Ruipro cables to my receiver and from my receiver with no issues at the settings I use on my ATV4k:
> 
> 
> Maybe you should start with the ATV4k settings above and if that works, then start changing options (4:2:0 to 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 for example) and see where the failure begins. Do the same thing on the Roku (I don't have one to test) and see if the failure happens at the same settings. It may be that either the tv or the receiver doesn't know how to handle certain settings and just does the best it can and chokes.


For my Roku, it fails any auto-detection beyond 1080p. The first image shows failure to auto-detect. The second image shows that i can force the Roku into it.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, I run the Ruipro cables to my receiver and from my receiver with no issues at the settings I use on my ATV4k:
> 
> Enable Dolby Vision
> 4k SDR @60Hz
> YCbCr 4:2:0
> Match Frame Rate and Dynamic Range enabled


Those are the same settings i use. Of course, when you select (force) 4K DolbyVision, you automatically deselect 4K SDR. But, like you, I prefer to use 4K SDR, and let Match Content (Range and Frame Rate) choose DolbyVision when the program material has it (vs. a forced global setting). 

I do set Chroma (YCbCr) at 4:4:4 vs. your 4:2:0. It works and Apple's menu description says "_4:2:0 provides a high-quality picture that is compatible with most TVs and HDMI cables. 4:4:4 improves clarity, but requires high-speed cables._" So, while I sense this is sketchy explanation, if 4:4:4 works, why not use it?


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> For my Roku, it fails any auto-detection beyond 1080p. The first image shows failure to auto-detect. The second image shows that i can force the Roku into it.


That's an annoying conundrum. If it was me, if something/anything doesn't work, I'd move on to the next cable choice, especially when you've seen that it does Auto-detect with a shorter length cable.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> That's an annoying conundrum. If it was me, if something/anything doesn't work, I'd move on to the next cable choice, especially when you've seen that it does Auto-detect with a shorter length cable.


It is annoying. And it seems likely that I will not be keeping these cables. But, there is an absolute possibility that for some reason, Roku’s auto detection is the issue. That possibility feels unlikely because it works with another cable but maybe Roku’s implementation is flaky or overly picky. Over in the huge Roku thread, it seems every software release introduces different behavior for display settings. 

What exactly are my other options for “48Gb” HDMI solutions? Monoprice? Ruipro seemed to be the safest bet due to their 4k reputation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Those are the same settings i use. Of course, when you select (force) 4K DolbyVision, you automatically deselect 4K SDR. But, like you, I prefer to use 4K SDR, and let Match Content (Range and Frame Rate) choose DolbyVision when the program material has it (vs. a forced global setting).
> 
> I do set Chroma (YCbCr) at 4:4:4 vs. your 4:2:0. It works and Apple's menu description says "_4:2:0 provides a high-quality picture that is compatible with most TVs and HDMI cables. 4:4:4 improves clarity, but requires high-speed cables._" So, while I sense this is sketchy explanation, if 4:4:4 works, why not use it?


I agree. My understanding is that 4:4:4 is meant for computers so that the typeface is clearer to read on the tv but does little for movies, etc. because most, it not all movies, are mastered in 4:2:0 (at least blu-ray's ). I could be wrong on that. It's been awhile since I delved into what is currently being done with streaming movies. Personally, I see no difference in 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 via the ATV4k and my C8. I just figure it's best to use 4:2:0 to avoid any chroma issues should they occur.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. My understanding is that 4:4:4 is meant for computers so that the typeface is clearer to read on the tv but does little for movies, etc. because most, it not all movies, are mastered in 4:2:0 (at least blu-ray's ). I could be wrong on that. It's been awhile since I delved into what is currently being done with streaming movies. Personally, I see no difference in 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 via the ATV4k and my C8. I just figure it's best to use 4:2:0 to avoid any chroma issues should they occur.


But then, per Apple, you're missing out on the "improved clarity". 😇


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> What exactly are my other options for “48Gb” HDMI solutions? Monoprice? Ruipro seemed to be the safest bet due to their 4k reputation.


Again, why do you need 48Gbps now? There is nothing that requires that bandwidth nor are there any consumer devices, yet, that can push 48Gbps. The best your current devices will be able to do is 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0). If you're planning for the future it's a roll of the dice right now. By the time HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, cable updates may be necessary (more robust chipsets in the connector ends) and better current output from the new HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the active cables, be they copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber.

As far as options go, there aren't any other than trusting what the cable mfr states. And without knowing how they derived that 48Gbps claim it's really kind of meaningless at this point in time. Ruipro would be your safest bet but I'd wait until they get the compatibility issues worked out with their 8k cables. The issues I had when evaluating them was sporadic handshaking. Once the connection was made, it was rock solid and had no issues with 4k HDR with my ATV4k settings. Even Airplay via the ATV4k from my laptop to the C8 was fine.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> But then, per Apple, you're missing out on the "improved clarity". 😇


 You'd have to define "clarity" then. The implication is better overall pq but I don't think that's true, other than maybe using the panel as a monitor for your laptop. There can be drawbacks when trying to push the best settings possible if your other equipment is not up to the task. There is nothing wrong with 4:4:4 I just don't see the advantage. If you're a gamer that may be a different story.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> Again, why do you need 48Gbps now? There is nothing that requires that bandwidth nor are there any consumer devices, yet, that can push 48Gbps. The best your current devices will be able to do is 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0). If you're planning for the future it's a roll of the dice right now. By the time HDMI 2.1 devices and sources are in the wild, cable updates may be necessary (more robust chipsets in the connector ends) and better current output from the new HDMI 2.1 chipsets for the active cables, be they copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber.


I needed it now because I was going to install the cables now. Really, with that logic, all I _need_ is a cable certified for 1.4a because all they will be feeding right now is a 1080p TV.  But that would be silly since I know for a fact that I will buy a new TV very soon. 

Also, 4K at 120hz is also something I will need - And that isn’t 5-year fantasy land - Thats likely this year.


----------



## crbdrb

Well I can report that the AppleTV autoselected 4k60 without any input from me. I manually switched to 1080p and back to 4K60 to be sure and that also worked without issue. Changed to 4:2:2 and that worked. TV is reporting UHD HDR.

This is running directly from the AppleTV to the Samsung TV.

I will test the other 4 cables later and report.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> I needed it now because I was going to install the cables now. Really, with that logic, all I _need_ is a cable certified for 1.4a because all they will be feeding right now is a 1080p TV.  But that would be silly since I know for a fact that I will buy a new TV very soon.
> 
> Also, 4K at 120hz is also something I will need - And that isn’t 5-year fantasy land - Thats likely this year.


Well ok then. If you need to install cabling now that is supposedly rated for 48Gbps, and lists which HDMI 2.1 option sets it has been tested for, then there are a couple you can find on Amazon but caveat emptor. I would suggest sticking with hybrid fiber. You may have to contact the mfr if their product description is not clear or they don't provide a cable diagram. Just keep in mind that your sources and sinks need to have the same version/build of HDMI 2.1 chipsets for everything to run smoothly.

I take it you're a gamer then if you need 4k @120Hz. Theoretically, 4:2:2 at 8-bits only needs about 16Gbps so you might be able to get away with HDMI 2.0 but realistically, you'd be better off with HDMI 2.1 hardware, provided you can find a panel that is a true 120Hz panel and has HDMI 2.1 certified for all of the option sets, or at least the ones that are important to gamers (QFT, VRR, VLLM). The new HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are coming out are supposed to have a higher current output so power consumption for active cables won't be as much of an issue as it is now. But whether those chipsets are being incorporated into this years models of higher end tv's is anybody's guess.

Good luck and do let us know how it all turns out. I'd be interested in the cable you get and the hardware that it eventually works with.


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> Well ok then. If you need to install cabling now that is supposedly rated for 48Gbps, and lists which HDMI 2.1 option sets it has been tested for, then there are a couple you can find on Amazon but caveat emptor. I would suggest sticking with hybrid fiber. You may have to contact the mfr if their product description is not clear or they don't provide a cable diagram. Just keep in mind that your sources and sinks need to have the same version/build of HDMI 2.1 chipsets for everything to run smoothly.
> 
> I take it you're a gamer then if you need 4k @120Hz. Theoretically, 4:2:2 at 8-bits only needs about 16Gbps so you might be able to get away with HDMI 2.0 but realistically, you'd be better off with HDMI 2.1 hardware, provided you can find a panel that is a true 120Hz panel and has HDMI 2.1 certified for all of the option sets, or at least the ones that are important to gamers (QFT, VRR, VLLM). The new HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are coming out are supposed to have a higher current output so power consumption for active cables won't be as much of an issue as it is now. But whether those chipsets are being incorporated into this years models of higher end tv's is anybody's guess.
> 
> Good luck and do let us know how it all turns out. I'd be interested in the cable you get and the hardware that it eventually works with.


Well, my wife and I do like to play games here and there so it is something we like to keep up with. Video cards that support 4k120 over HDMI should be available this year. My last TV had displayport (bought specifically because it did) but the days of TVs with displayport are over it seems. 

Anyway, the reality is that I could have picked the Ruipro 4k fiber. But I could potentially be in the same exact situation that I find myself in right now because any active cable is prone to working with some but not all your stuff. Anyone choosing a cable over 25’ is in unknown uncertified waters. We are forced to buy and test - And pray that when we get a new piece of gear that the cable works with it. It sucks and I don’t enjoy it and I knew this day was coming when I designed my house the way I did 4 years ago. I mean I hoped in 4 years time that things would be better, but felt confident they wouldn’t be. 

Once I hear back from the other poster, I will make a final decision. Right now, since the AppleTV worked flawlessly, I am tempted to take your earlier advice, install it, and take them up on their warranty if needed assuming they are still around. But man, I do hate crawling around in insulation.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> That's an annoying conundrum. If it was me, if something/anything doesn't work, I'd move on to the next cable choice, especially when you've seen that it does Auto-detect with a shorter length cable.


So all 5 cables worked immediately on the AppleTV. 4K60 4:2:2


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> So all 5 cables worked immediately on the AppleTV. 4K60 4:2:2


Awesome! Are you able to enable DolbyVision - and watch it? And also with 4K60 can you enable 4:4:4?


----------



## console

*Ruipro 4K/18Gbps cable @ 12M (40')*

Testing tried and true Ruipro 4K first. Testing from Marantz AV8805 to SONY 85x900f. 

AppleTV - pass everything - enable DolbyVision - 4:4:4 etc. 

Roku - Auto-detect 4KP60 - pass everything - 4:2:2 etc. 

OPPO - with this I'm using Gemini Man which is one of the two 4KP60 movies available. Stunning video (crappy movie). With 4K Ruipro @ 40' it played perfectly 95% of the time - and stuttered in both picture and sound 5%. So FAIL. 

I switched back to my Key Digital 12' cable which is supposed to pass everything. FAIL again at same rate. 

I ran Ruipro 40' direct from OPPO 203 to TV. PASS. So I know have to do more work to track down where it's failing - either cable from OPPO to Marantz, something with Marantz itself, cable from Marantz to TV. All now know is that the OPPO and TV work fine in 4KP60. I recommend getting this movie just for the show-off and testing value.


----------



## Otto Pylot

crbdrb said:


> Once I hear back from the other poster, I will make a final decision. Right now, since the AppleTV worked flawlessly, I am tempted to take your earlier advice, install it, and take them up on their warranty if needed assuming they are still around. But man, I do hate crawling around in insulation.


That's why the last two times I installed cabling in my homes I hired an electrician to run conduit to my specifications. I'm too old to be climbing in the attic space .


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Testing tried and true Ruipro 4K first. Testing from Marantz AV8805 to SONY 85x900f.
> 
> AppleTV - pass everything - enable DolbyVision - 4:4:4 etc.
> 
> Roku - Auto-detect 4KP60 - pass everything - 4:2:2 etc.
> 
> OPPO - with this I'm using Gemini Man which is one of the two 4KP60 movies available. Stunning video (crappy movie). With 4K Ruipro @ 40' it played perfectly 95% of the time - and stuttered in both picture and sound 5%. So FAIL.
> 
> I switched back to my Key Digital 12' cable which is supposed to pass everything. FAIL again at same rate.
> 
> I ran Ruipro 40' direct from OPPO 203 to TV. PASS. So I know have to do more work to track down where it's failing - either cable from OPPO to Marantz, something with Marantz itself, cable from Marantz to TV. All now know is that the OPPO and TV work fine in 4KP60. I recommend getting this movie just for the show-off and testing value.


Nice to hear that the Ruipro4k worked for the most part. The stuttering sounds like you're not getting a consistent signal which could be the dreaded power output issue from your source. Did you try the voltage inserter at the source end?


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Awesome! Are you able to enable DolbyVision - and watch it? And also with 4K60 can you enable 4:4:4?


Ok. So this sounds like a possible problem. 4:4:4 is not available as an option. maybe my TV does not support? I would have to do some digging since Samsung documentation sucks.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> Nice to hear that the Ruipro4k worked for the most part. The stuttering sounds like you're not getting a consistent signal which could be the dreaded power output issue from your source. Did you try the voltage inserter at the source end?


Since the Ruipro4K worked from OPPO to SONY, I'm not thinking it is this cable that is the problem. I will try other solutions first. 

Also, this "problem" is in watching only 2 movies ever made (to my knowledge). Still I'd like to make it work. 

Now testing 8K cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Since the Ruipro4K worked from OPPO to SONY, I'm not thinking it is this cable that is the problem. I will try other solutions first.
> 
> Also, this "problem" is in watching only 2 movies ever made (to my knowledge). Still I'd like to make it work.
> 
> Now testing 8K cables.


Yeah, I would agree about the cable. If the problem happens when you introduce the Marantz into the chain then it may be the power output at the Marantz HDMI port. Do you have another HDMI port on the Marantz that you can try? Active cables are great for 1080 but once you hit above 20' or so for 4k HDR they can get really squirrely.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, I would agree about the cable. If the problem happens when you introduce the Marantz into the chain then it may be the power output at the Marantz HDMI port. Do you have another HDMI port on the Marantz that you can try? Active cables are great for 1080 but once you hit above 20' or so for 4k HDR they can get really squirrely.


I will circle back to troubleshooting this issue after testing the other 8K cables (33' and 40').


----------



## console

*Ruipro 8K/48Gbps Fiber Active Optical HDMI Cable (40')*

Testing Ruipro 8K/48Gbps 40' cable from Marantz AV8805 to SONY 85x900f.

AppleTV - pass everything - enable DolbyVision - 4:4:4 etc.

Roku - Auto-detect 4KP60 - pass everything - 4:2:2 etc.

OPPO - Gemini Man (4KP60) played direct from OPPO to TV and also from OPPO > Marantz > TV. So why did the 8K cable PASS and Ruipro 4K cable FAIL this scenario. No idea. But will try to replicate with 4K cable again. 

Initial impression is that Ruipro 8K cable works on everything perfectly. Of course, I haven't yet tested with new projector.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Testing Ruipro 8K/48Gbps 40' cable from Marantz AV8805 to SONY 85x900f.
> 
> AppleTV - pass everything - enable DolbyVision - 4:4:4 etc.
> 
> Roku - Auto-detect 4KP60 - pass everything - 4:2:2 etc.
> 
> OPPO - Gemini Man (4KP60) played direct from OPPO to TV and also from OPPO > Marantz > TV. So why did the 8K cable PASS and Ruipro 4K cable FAIL this scenario. No idea. But will try to replicate with 4K cable again.
> 
> Initial impression is that Ruipro 8K cable works on everything perfectly. Of course, I haven't yet tested with new projector.


Sounds like very good news. So very interesting about the Roku autodetecting. I really expected it not.


----------



## console

console said:


> Testing Ruipro 8K/48Gbps 40' cable from Marantz AV8805 to SONY 85x900f.
> 
> AppleTV - pass everything - enable DolbyVision - 4:4:4 etc.
> 
> Roku - Auto-detect 4KP60 - pass everything - 4:2:2 etc.
> 
> OPPO - Gemini Man (4KP60) played direct from OPPO to TV and also from OPPO > Marantz > TV. So why did the 8K cable PASS and Ruipro 4K cable FAIL this scenario. No idea. But will try to replicate with 4K cable again.
> 
> Initial impression is that Ruipro 8K cable works on everything perfectly. Of course, I haven't yet tested with new projector.


OK so now I've tested 40' 8K/48Gbps cable and 40' 4K/18Gbps each 3 times. I also tested 33' 8K Ruipro. I now consider performance on all to be the same. That is they pass everything EXCEPT Gemini Man playing 4KP60 from OPPO 203 through Marantz 8805. That FAILS with extremely intermittent stutters. There would probably be 4-5 dropouts total in a 2 hour movie. Yet running same 4K cable direct from OPPO to TV seems to work so I don't think issue is with cable. 

Bottom line is that so far I like Ruipro 8K pending further testing with JVC NX7 projector arriving Tuesday (before I snake through ceiling). I will likely run at least 2 HDMI cables through ceiling for redundancy. Probably Ruipro 8K and 4K cable + possibly the projector installer's cable (Straightwire 4K/18Gbps) so that he can't blame any failures on me.


----------



## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Bottom line is that so far I like Ruipro 8K pending further testing with JVC NX7 projector arriving Tuesday (before I snake through ceiling). I will likely run at least 2 HDMI cables through ceiling for redundancy. Probably Ruipro 8K and 4K cable + possibly the projector installer's cable (Straightwire 4K/18Gbps) so that he can't blame any failures on me.



Good plan. Let us know.


----------



## console

crbdrb said:


> Ok. So this sounds like a possible problem. 4:4:4 is not available as an option. maybe my TV does not support? I would have to do some digging since Samsung documentation sucks.


I don't think this is a problem. To get to 4:4:4 you have to enable 4K SDR which is the preferred setting since I don't want to see menus and everything upscaled to HDR. With 
Match Content (Range and Frame Rate) enabled, you will see content correctly with or without DolbyVision or HDR10.


----------



## console

Otto Pylot said:


> Nice to hear that the Ruipro4k worked for the most part. The stuttering sounds like you're not getting a consistent signal which could be the dreaded power output issue from your source.* Did you try the voltage inserter at the source end?*


Otto - I'd like to try the Ruipro 'voltage inserter' with the 8K cable to see if it clears up the intermittent stutter with 4KP60 movie. I've never done this. I was surprised to see a 5V usb port on back of Marantz. Never needed this before. 

So all I do is insert the usb of the inserter into that 5v port and HDMI connector into my preferred output and plug my Ruipro 40' cable into that connector (which I assume can pass 48Gbps). 

Are you absolutely sure this won't blow up my entire system?


----------



## crbdrb

Otto Pylot said:


> That's why the last two times I installed cabling in my homes I hired an electrician to run conduit to my specifications. I'm too old to be climbing in the attic space .


I’m not too far behind you on that.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> Otto - I'd like to try the Ruipro 'voltage inserter' with the 8K cable to see if it clears up the intermittent stutter with 4KP60 movie. I've never done this. I was surprised to see a 5V usb port on back of Marantz. Never needed this before.
> 
> So all I do is insert the usb of the inserter into that 5v port and HDMI connector into my preferred output and plug my Ruipro 40' cable into that connector (which I assume can pass 48Gbps).
> 
> Are you absolutely sure this won't blow up my entire system?


You can plug the USB voltage inserter into any USB port that provides power over USB. I certainly can’t tell you that it won’t hurt anything, but I cannot imagine that it would. Neither my TV or my Roku had any ill effects, and I even used it on the wrong end a couple of times.


----------



## crbdrb

console said:


> I will likely run at least 2 HDMI cables through ceiling for redundancy. Probably Ruipro 8K and 4K cable


Which 4K cable are you considering running?


----------



## Postmoderndesign

crbdrb said:


> Which 4K cable are you considering running?


As long as you are going over he ceiling add conduit and then you can later easily pull an 8K HDMI cable when the technology settles.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/hdmi-explained-everything-you-need-to-know-news-specs/
"It’s true that HDMI 2.1 opens up a wealth of new possibilities, which we’ll get into shortly, but the full benefits of these features won’t be realized for many years. The changes are exciting, but it will be years more until specs like 8K TV resolution and 4K at 120Hz are anywhere close to mainstream."


----------



## crbdrb

Postmoderndesign said:


> As long as you are going over he ceiling add conduit and then you can later easily pull an 8K HDMI cable when the technology settles.


I installed conduit when I built the house. Makes running cable possible - Doesn’t make it easy.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

crbdrb said:


> I installed conduit when I built the house. Makes running cable possible - Doesn’t make it easy.


Use cable lubricant, Have a second person feed the cable or feed for a short time and then pull:


----------



## crbdrb

Postmoderndesign said:


> Use cable lubricant, Have a second person feed the cable or feed for a short time and then pull: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbQjNcWCwek


I appreciate the input but unfortunately I have a lot of experience in pulling cable. Reality for me is even with conduit, I have a lot of difficult work to run HDMI cables. My equipment/distribution room is not adjacent to my media room. I personally ran over 15,000’ of cable in this house. I just want to run HDMI that will last me a few years, not 6 months. I know me - I will buy an 8k TV capable of inputting 4k120hz, and I will immediately want to replace that cable if it can’t handle it. Am just hoping that an 8K cable sold by a reputable company today will actually meet some of their claims. Seems reasonable.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

crbdrb said:


> I appreciate the input but unfortunately I have a lot of experience in pulling cable. Reality for me is even with conduit, I have a lot of difficult work to run HDMI cables. My equipment/distribution room is not adjacent to my media room. I personally ran over 15,000’ of cable in this house. I just want to run HDMI that will last me a few years, not 6 months. I know me - I will buy an 8k TV capable of inputting 4k120hz, and I will immediately want to replace that cable if it can’t handle it. Am just hoping that an 8K cable sold by a reputable company today will actually meet some of their claims. Seems reasonable.


That is not my experience, particularly when I use cable lubricant and have someone to feed the cable while I pull the cable through. But you have a lot of experience and disagree and that is OK by me.


----------



## crbdrb

Postmoderndesign said:


> That is not my experience, particularly when I use cable lubricant and have someone to feed the cable while I pull the cable through. But you have a lot of experience and disagree and that is OK by me.


My situation just isn’t straightforward. You are likely thinking of a single conduit run from source to display. I have conduit to the source. I have conduit to the display. Those do not connect. The various structural obstacles in between made that not possible. The conduit is easy. The rest is not.


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## Otto Pylot

console said:


> Otto - I'd like to try the Ruipro 'voltage inserter' with the 8K cable to see if it clears up the intermittent stutter with 4KP60 movie. I've never done this. I was surprised to see a 5V usb port on back of Marantz. Never needed this before.
> 
> So all I do is insert the usb of the inserter into that 5v port and HDMI connector into my preferred output and plug my Ruipro 40' cable into that connector (which I assume can pass 48Gbps).
> 
> Are you absolutely sure this won't blow up my entire system?


My receiver has one USB (5v/1A) on the front  I wish it had one on the back as well. No, you won't damage anything on your receiver. The voltage inserters are designed for that very purpose. It supplies a steady, consistent power output to the cable. Just plug the inserter into the HDMI output, the USB portion into the USB output, and then your cable into the inserter. There are no guarantees that it will work but it is designed for that. I didn't see any improvement with the 8k cables that I was evaluating so I'm thinking it's more of a chipset design in the cable than anything else. Ruipro is working on that now that they are back up and running after the Coronavirus epidemic. Hopefully it will work for you.

I've suggested to Ruipro that they put instructions in the box on how to use the voltage inserter because a lot of folks are not familiar with them being as they were not needed with HD (1080), at least in most cases.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

crbdrb said:


> My situation just isn’t straightforward. You are likely thinking of a single conduit run from source to display. I have conduit to the source. I have conduit to the display. Those do not connect. The various structural obstacles in between made that not possible. The conduit is easy. The rest is not.


Yes, we have different network structures and layouts. First of all I had the house built in 1980-1981 and made extensive photographs all phases, particularly after the heating/ventilation, plumbing and electrical work was done and before the sheet rock went up. I use roomy two inch conduit. All my Ethernet wiring runs from an equipment cabinet in the laundry/furnace room to wall outlets in the bedrooms, great room and the pool equipment room where the internet comes in and goes up to the equipment cabinet. All my HDMI is run exposed behind an equipment shelf/table which holds the computer, Blu-ray player, Playstation and AVR which is next to the OLED TV panel.

I pulled the cat6a during a remodel in 2016 when sheet rock was off the relevant ceiling and relevant walls.


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## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> That's why the last two times I installed cabling in my homes I hired an electrician to run conduit to my specifications. I'm too old to be climbing in the attic space .




Care to share some details of your specifications?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Care to share some details of your specifications?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


My specs were about as simple as one can get. I had them install 1.5" soft conduit. By that I mean one that was somewhat flexible to work with but did not have inside ridges so nothing could get stuck during a pull. I don't remember what brand of soft conduit they used. Pull stings were added as well and I had them install the solid core CAT-6 cabling one at a time so I could put a colored dot on both ends of the cable for identifiers. Both times were for extending ethernet connections as I have no need for HDBT or long run HDMI because both of my HTS's are on media consoles so the HDMI runs are short and easily accessible. However, the concept is the same if one needed extra coax or long HDMI runs.


----------



## giomania

Otto Pylot said:


> My specs were about as simple as one can get. I had them install 1.5" soft conduit. By that I mean one that was somewhat flexible to work with but did not have inside ridges so nothing could get stuck during a pull. I don't remember what brand of soft conduit they used. Pull stings were added as well and I had them install the solid core CAT-6 cabling one at a time so I could put a colored dot on both ends of the cable for identifiers. Both times were for extending ethernet connections as I have no need for HDBT or long run HDMI because both of my HTS's are on media consoles so the HDMI runs are short and easily accessible. However, the concept is the same if one needed extra coax or long HDMI runs.




Junction boxes at the ends or just mid rings with the conduit loose in the wall cavity? Or was the conduit fastened to the studs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Otto Pylot

giomania said:


> Junction boxes at the ends or just mid rings with the conduit loose in the wall cavity? Or was the conduit fastened to the studs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


J-boxes at the end for cable in-use with extra cable curled up inside. The conduit was tacked to the studs if memory serves me correctly.


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## bmrowe

I've got a current setup using ARC over about 30m with a Celerity cable on a 5.1.4 setup. Things are working great for 5.1 dolby digital or lower. I've got an xbox one and ps4 plugged directly into the tv. I obviously don't get any of the higher bandwidth formats from the xbox or PSR including anything for atmos.

I'm considering upgrading the setup to use eARC to unlock the formats I currently can't use. I just read through the entire thread. It seems like the ruipro is the consensus top cable - however, most installs are shorter lengths.

Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m? This would be between an LG C9 and a Denon X6500w.


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## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> I've got a current setup using ARC over about 30m with a Celerity cable on a 5.1.4 setup. Things are working great for 5.1 dolby digital or lower. I've got an xbox one and ps4 plugged directly into the tv. I obviously don't get any of the higher bandwidth formats from the xbox or PSR including anything for atmos.
> 
> I'm considering upgrading the setup to use eARC to unlock the formats I currently can't use. I just read through the entire thread. It seems like the ruipro is the consensus top cable - however, most installs are shorter lengths.
> 
> Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m? This would be between an LG C9 and a Denon X6500w.



30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC. The recommendation would be the Ruipro4k cable, and you might want to consider using a voltage inserter in case there are power issues at either end. Be mindful of bend radius. All you can do is try because no one can offer a cable with a 100% guarantee that it will work for all setups. A single cable, source to sink, is recommended with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. There are some reports of a slight degradation in pq with a voltage inserter but that is purely anecdotal at this point in time.


----------



## bmrowe

Otto Pylot said:


> 30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC. The recommendation would be the Ruipro4k cable, and you might want to consider using a voltage inserter in case there are power issues at either end. Be mindful of bend radius. All you can do is try because no one can offer a cable with a 100% guarantee that it will work for all setups. A single cable, source to sink, is recommended with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between. There are some reports of a slight degradation in pq with a voltage inserter but that is purely anecdotal at this point in time.


Thanks. The celerity cable is powered at both ends via usb and the PQ is incredible. Is it safe to assume that the ruipro cable is better than other options like doing this over ethernet? I've got an extra balun ethernet port behind the tv, but have assumed that would result in handshake issues and other problems versus a fiber cable.


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## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Thanks. The celerity cable is powered at both ends via usb and the PQ is incredible. Is it safe to assume that the ruipro cable is better than other options like doing this over ethernet? I've got an extra balun ethernet port behind the tv, but have assumed that would result in handshake issues and other problems versus a fiber cable.



I'm surprised that the Celerity cable has worked well for ARC at 30m. There have been numerous reports of the connector ends failing. The Ruipro cables are hybrid fiber. Meaning that they have glass fiber cores surrounded by solid copper wiring. The copper wires are used for the low speed transmission of ARC, HDCP, and EDID protocols which leaves the fiber for the high speed data. Another option would be HDBT using solid copper CAT-6a cable (non-CCA/CCS and not CAT-6 pre-terminated ethernet patch cable). However, I don't know if the HDMI tx/rx units have the latest chipsets in them yet or not. Keep in mind that your best connection is still a single cable without wall plates, adapters, or extenders.


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## Joe Fernand

_'Before I buy a cable and get disappointed when it doesn't work, do you all think its realistic to get eARC over 30m?'_ - the only way to know if eARC is going to work for you is to test, test and test again in your system, no matter if you go RuiPro4K or a 'Next Gen' HDBT solution.

We, TMF, do have customers using the RuiPro4K with ARC, a few had issues which we had to work around. I am not aware of any using them for eARC so far - they may just not have been in touch or mentioned it, we do have customers using eARC at shorter lengths.

Joe


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> 30m (90') is tough for any cable, and is going to be very difficult for eARC.


I should perform better than ARC. The audio is sent as differential and the control data is sent common mode. I'm very curious to see how well these long cables handle eARC.


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## meli

Are there any "Certified" Ultra High Speed (48Gbps) HDMI Cables on the market? None of the cables I've seen appear to have the certification logo.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> I should perform better than ARC. The audio is sent as differential and the control data is sent common mode. I'm very curious to see how well these long cables handle eARC.


I too will be interested in seeing how well ANY hybrid fiber cable handles eARC over those distances. In theory, hybrid fiber cables, due to their design, should handle eARC fine but distance and current (at the source or sink end) are still an issue for cable mfrs. I know Ruipro is working really hard to overcome issues beyond 15m, and are just about there, so we'll see.


----------



## Otto Pylot

meli said:


> Are there any "Certified" Ultra High Speed (48Gbps) HDMI Cables on the market? None of the cables I've seen appear to have the certification logo.


The certification "logo" (the QR label) isn't going to happen for quite some time, if ever. There's only a handful of cable connectors that have passed the CTS testing for the HDMI 2.1 options sets so you need to read very carefully the product specs. In theory, if the cable mfr uses the term "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable", they have to list which HDMI 2.1 option sets that the cable can handle if they are to use "UHS" HDMI in their marketing and product description. However, the gray area is that even if the connector has passed CTS, that doesn't necessarily mean that the cable itself has been tested. The whole HDMI 2.1 testing is still kinda fuzzy. And there are some cable mfrs who are using "Ultra HDMI Cables" or something similar which sounds like Ultra High Speed but in fact is not. As far as 48Gbps, I wouldn't be too concerned about that yet because HDMI 2.1 chipset that are capable, and have been validated, for that bandwidth are very few and far between, and there isn't any source material that requires that bandwidth yet.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> In theory, if the cable mfr uses the term "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable", they have to list which HDMI 2.1 option sets that the cable can handle if they are to use "UHS" HDMI in their marketing and product description.


Don't think so. That's only for devices. The hdmi.org website even has this on the home page slide show:









The only two features an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable needs to do is 48Gbps and eARC. Both are mandatory for cables. All other HDMI features are just different bit patterns on those two data channels.

But I think the manufacturers are going to slap all those other feature names on their packaging anyways.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Don't think so. That's only for devices. The hdmi.org website even has this on the home page slide show:
> 
> View attachment 2714292
> 
> 
> The only two features an Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable needs to do is 48Gbps and eARC. Both are mandatory for cables. All other HDMI features are just different bit patterns on those two data channels.
> 
> But I think the manufacturers are going to slap all those other feature names on their packaging anyways.


It was my understanding that anything "HDMI 2.1" related needed to have the option sets listed that the device or cable was capable of. I guess the assumption is for cables that if they are labeled as UHS HDMI, then the 48Gbps bandwidth includes not only eARC but the other option sets for HDMI 2.1, even though eARC is possible on flashed HDMI 2.0 chipsets (18Gbps) and certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables. The HDMI marketing requirements for HDMI 2.1 are very specific in that the option sets do have to be listed that the device (and I assumed that included cables) has been tested or are at least capable of. As with all things that come from HDMI.org, it is going to be very confusing for the average consumer.

I do know that the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables are capable of eARC up to 10m due to their design. I've seen the ATC test data but the cables are only marketed as meeting HDMI 2.0 specifications. I fear that there are a lot of folks who think if they invest in a UHS HDMI cable, that they will be able to easily achieve eARC not realizing that the HDMI chipsets are really the deciding factor and not necessarily the cable.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> It was my understanding that anything "HDMI 2.1" related needed to have the option sets listed that the device or cable was capable of. I guess the assumption is for cables that if they are labeled as UHS HDMI, then the 48Gbps bandwidth includes not only eARC but the other option sets for HDMI 2.1, even though eARC is possible on flashed HDMI 2.0 chipsets (18Gbps) and certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables. The HDMI marketing requirements for HDMI 2.1 are very specific in that the option sets do have to be listed that the device (and I assumed that included cables) has been tested or are at least capable of. As with all things that come from HDMI.org, it is going to be very confusing for the average consumer.
> 
> I do know that the Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables are capable of eARC up to 10m due to their design. I've seen the ATC test data but the cables are only marketed as meeting HDMI 2.0 specifications. I fear that there are a lot of folks who think if they invest in a UHS HDMI cable, that they will be able to easily achieve eARC not realizing that the HDMI chipsets are really the deciding factor and not necessarily the cable.


The restriction on not using the version number went way back to 2012, for both cables and devices. With HDMI 2.1 they've loosened that restriction for devices but with the requirement that the feature name needs to go with it. https://web.archive.org/web/2017070...df/atlug_faqs/2011_12_20_ATLUG_Q09_UPDATE.PDF The FAQ they have is worded ambiguously. I've had one person try to convince me that "HDMI 2.1" by itself meant all HDMI 2.1 features. So a lot can be read into their wording as well.

The higher resolutions just depend on bandwidth ie 48Gbps. The other video related HDMI 2.1 features such as ALLM, VRR, QFT and QMS are just extra flags in the EDID and a longer vertical blanking interval. The place no additional technical requirements on a cable.  That's why they can be used with a previous version's physical hardware.

A Premium High Speed HDMI Cable is insufficient for eARC. It must be a Premium High Speed HDMI Cables with Ethernet. Actually, any cable "with Ethernet" will do. The Ethernet channel is mandatory in a Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable.

It is all super confusing. A lot of it is due to the secrecy of the HDMI Specifications. Plus they've really dumbed down their website. It use to be more technical but now it's just a marketing mouthpiece.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> It is all super confusing. A lot of it is due to the secrecy of the HDMI Specifications. Plus they've really dumbed down their website. It use to be more technical but now it's just a marketing mouthpiece.



I agree 100%! Yeah, I know that HDMI.org asked mfrs years ago to drop the HDMI version number from their products because it was just way to confusing, and for awhile it worked. That's where the Premium High Speed HDMI (18Gbps) designation came from for cables and the same for Ultra High Speed HDMI (48Gbps). However, it appears that the mfrs have slowly slipped back into using the HDMI hardware version on the marketing of their cables.


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## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> However, it appears that the mfrs have slowly slipped back into using the HDMI hardware version on the marketing of their cables.


All the good manufacturers seem to be following the rules. It's the Amazon resellers and the shady manufacturers that use it. It's actually a good way to tell who to avoid. 

Tech blogs are bad for it and sometimes a press release uses it wrong. But otherwise everything seems to be good. I'm curious if you have seen a good manufacturer use it on their website.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> All the good manufacturers seem to be following the rules. It's the Amazon resellers and the shady manufacturers that use it. It's actually a good way to tell who to avoid.
> 
> Tech blogs are bad for it and sometimes a press release uses it wrong. But otherwise everything seems to be good. I'm curious if you have seen a good manufacturer use it on their website.


 I've only seen one website if memory serves me correctly that had some detailed info but I forget who it was. It is mentioned in one of my other posts on this forum though. I'll see if I can dig it up. I've been recommending Ruipro hybrid fiber cables for some time now because I've seen their product brochures and test data but I don't know it that's available on their website or not.


EDIT: just sent you a pm.


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## Kotr

I was using the same cables I bought back in 2005. I also switched from a receiver that was 1.2 HDMI to a newer model that uses 2.0 technology. I switched to 8k 48 gbps cables on a 4K TV. Should I expect to see an improvement in picture? The receiver has 4K pass thru.


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## wyvern6

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, I was evaluating the Ruipro8k cables, and while they did work on my system, there were some other issues so I discontinued my evaluation until Ruipro got the bugs worked out. I reinstalled the 4k cables and they worked just as good as my old BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables. I think this batch of Ruipro8k cables wasn't quite ready for prime time as there are some compatibility issues with certain devices.


has ruipro fixed their 8k hdmi cables already?


----------



## Otto Pylot

wyvern6 said:


> has ruipro fixed their 8k hdmi cables already?


Funny you should ask. I just talked to them this morning. They are finally back up and running after basically being shut down for over 2 months at their facility in China. They will be coming out with an improved 4k cable with better performance (thinner, more durable, stronger) in May or June and are working very hard on improving the quality, marketing, and development of the 8k cables. No date yet. They really want to nail down the eARC over distance issue that is plaguing a lot of 8k cable mfrs. I should be getting some of each to test.


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## Mr Carrot

Is there any update on the improved ruipro cable?


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## Otto Pylot

Mr Carrot said:


> Is there any update on the improved ruipro cable?



The improved Ruipro4k cable will be a bit thicker because it now has CL2 rating. There is also another version of the 4k cable coming out, as well as the 8k cable. The 4k cables are supposed to ready to ship around the end of June if all goes well and the 8k cables hopefully around the end of July. More details about the 4k cables will be posted once Ruipro says it's ok to do so.


----------



## Tanquen

Kotr said:


> I was using the same cables I bought back in 2005. I also switched from a receiver that was 1.2 HDMI to a newer model that uses 2.0 technology. I switched to 8k 48 gbps cables on a 4K TV. Should I expect to see an improvement in picture? The receiver has 4K pass thru.


Only if you have a 4K source. Your old AVR wasn't passing anything 4K but now your new one can and your TV can support it. Your TV should also have internal apps that can support 4K. But if your sources into your new AVR the same as the old ones and the old ones were not 4K then no nothing's going to improve.


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## [email protected]

Hello,

I know this thread is about testing longer cables for 8k but I was wondering if you folks have any knowledge on whether the following cable will work fine for what its advertised for? 

RUIPRO 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable 1m 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box. I cannot add link here as I am new but the above cable is available on Amazon. 

Basically I'm looking for a reliable 8k, @48gbps and e-arc cable at 1m length. 


If you have any views or have used this cable, I will appreciate your feedback. 

Thanks

VP


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know this thread is about testing longer cables for 8k but I was wondering if you folks have any knowledge on whether the following cable will work fine for what its advertised for?
> 
> RUIPRO 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable 1m 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box. I cannot add link here as I am new but the above cable is available on Amazon.
> 
> Basically I'm looking for a reliable 8k, @48gbps and e-arc cable at 1m length.
> 
> 
> If you have any views or have used this cable, I will appreciate your feedback.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> VP



Ruipro will be releasing a new version of their 8k cable for those who think they may need them in another month or so. However, at 1m (3'), a Premium High Speed HDMI cable will work for 4k HDR and probably eARC. Forget the 48Gbps bandwidth because there isn't any source material that requires that bandwidth nor consumer devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets. At 3', it sounds like you would have easy access to your cable so I'd try a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (QR label) and see if that works for you. Once there is source material that requires the 48Gbps bandwidth, you can easily swap out the cable. 



The Rupro8k cable is an active hybrid fiber cable and an overkill at your length, not to mention expensive. Certified passive cables for HDMI 2.1 will be coming, especially at that length, which is the minimum length for cables under the HDMI 2.1 specifications. 



Keep in mind that the cable is just the data pipe. It cannot do anything to the signal other than carry it as it was originally sent from the source to the sink. And both connected devices need to have the same HDMI chipsets otherwise the only option sets that can be used will be the in-common ones.


----------



## mike86325

Looking for a ~8ft HDMI cable that is as true to the 2.1 spec as possible. There are two passive cables I'm looking at, but I have no idea which is better. 

1) 10 ft RUIPRO 8K Copper HDMI 2.1 Cable 48Gbps. The fiber cables seem to be highly recommended on here. I'm not sure if this 10ft cable (being that it is above the hdmi.org recommendation for passive length of up to 9ft) will have any degradation or have some 2.1 features not work. 

2) 8 ft Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps. The cable is 8ft so better chance of having everything work with a passive cable. No idea if it is fully featured like the RUIPRO though. 

One cable will be used for eARC and the other will be hooked up to a high-end gaming PC so the 2.1 features (at least some of them) are definitely something I can take advantage of.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mike86325 said:


> Looking for a ~8ft HDMI cable that is as true to the 2.1 spec as possible. There are two passive cables I'm looking at, but I have no idea which is better.
> 
> 1) 10 ft RUIPRO 8K Copper HDMI 2.1 Cable 48Gbps. The fiber cables seem to be highly recommended on here. I'm not sure if this 10ft cable (being that it is above the hdmi.org recommendation for passive length of up to 9ft) will have any degradation or have some 2.1 features not work.
> 
> 2) 8 ft Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps. The cable is 8ft so better chance of having everything work with a passive cable. No idea if it is fully featured like the RUIPRO though.
> 
> One cable will be used for eARC and the other will be hooked up to a high-end gaming PC so the 2.1 features (at least some of them) are definitely something I can take advantage of.



The cable is just the data pipe. It does nothing to the signal but make sure what ever the source end sends, it gets to the sink end error free. So what determines on what you can do are the HDMI chipsets on the source end and sink end. For full compatibility, they both need to be the same otherwise only the in-common HDMI option sets will be available.


The HDMI 2.1 specifications, at least last time I checked, were standardized for passive cables up to 9' so an active cable is a bit of an overkill at that length if you decide to look at active cables as well. There are no passive cables yet that are certified or the full HDMI 2.1 option sets. Forget about 48Gbps because that is sort of meaningless at this point in time, especially for short runs as there isn't any source material that requires that bandwidth nor are they any HDMI chipsets yet that have been certified for HDMI 2.1 (full option sets). eARC is problematic but at 10' or less, you shouldn't have any issues depending on your devices.


If it were me I'd go with the Ruipro4k passive cables.


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## mike86325

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable is just the data pipe. It does nothing to the signal but make sure what ever the source end sends, it gets to the sink end error free. So what determines on what you can do are the HDMI chipsets on the source end and sink end. For full compatibility, they both need to be the same otherwise only the in-common HDMI option sets will be available.
> 
> 
> The HDMI 2.1 specifications, at least last time I checked, were standardized for passive cables up to 9' so an active cable is a bit of an overkill at that length if you decide to look at active cables as well. There are no passive cables yet that are certified or the full HDMI 2.1 option sets. Forget about 48Gbps because that is sort of meaningless at this point in time, especially for short runs as there isn't any source material that requires that bandwidth nor are they any HDMI chipsets yet that have been certified for HDMI 2.1 (full option sets). eARC is problematic but at 10' or less, you shouldn't have any issues depending on your devices.
> 
> 
> If it were me I'd go with the Ruipro4k passive cables.


Thank you for the detailed reply! Any word on if Ruipro is also updating their 8k passive cables? I saw you mention they were updating their 8k line with a focus of supporting eARC over longer lengths so I'm guessing they are working on the active cables. 

For me, the HDMI 2.1 specs that concern me the most are VRR, QFT, eARC, and ALLM. QMS and dynamic HDR would be a bonus. RUIPRO claims to support all of this in their description so hopefully that will be the case despite no certification. I couldn't care much for 8k60 or even probably 4k120 (even though my LG C9 now supports it supposedly) support since I'd rather play games at 1440p/120 until GPU power really takes a jump. I'm going to be threading these through the wall from behind my TV down to my entertainment center so I just want to have the best I'll need for at least a little while.


----------



## avernar

mike86325 said:


> For me, the HDMI 2.1 specs that concern me the most are VRR, QFT, eARC, and ALLM. QMS and dynamic HDR would be a bonus.


Except for eARC, none of those things has anything to do with the cable. If you can get video through the cable then all those things will work, assuming the AVR and TV can handle them.

eARC requires the Ethernet channel which is mandatory in Ultra High Speed HDMI cables.


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## Otto Pylot

mike86325 said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply! Any word on if Ruipro is also updating their 8k passive cables? I saw you mention they were updating their 8k line with a focus of supporting eARC over longer lengths so I'm guessing they are working on the active cables.
> 
> For me, the HDMI 2.1 specs that concern me the most are VRR, QFT, eARC, and ALLM. QMS and dynamic HDR would be a bonus. RUIPRO claims to support all of this in their description so hopefully that will be the case despite no certification. I couldn't care much for 8k60 or even probably 4k120 (even though my LG C9 now supports it supposedly) support since I'd rather play games at 1440p/120 until GPU power really takes a jump. I'm going to be threading these through the wall from behind my TV down to my entertainment center so I just want to have the best I'll need for at least a little while.



Ruipro is coming out with a new 4k cable that will be active fiber only. The original 4k hybrid fiber cable will be re-released with the CL2 rating on the cable, but the cable will be a bit thicker due to the CL2 requirments. The 8k cable will be hybrid fiber and is coming out in a couple of months. The CV-19 pandemic really put a crimp on testing, mfr'ing, and distribution.


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## TrendSetterX

mike86325 said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply! Any word on if Ruipro is also updating their 8k passive cables? I saw you mention they were updating their 8k line with a focus of supporting eARC over longer lengths so I'm guessing they are working on the active cables.
> 
> 
> 
> For me, the HDMI 2.1 specs that concern me the most are VRR, QFT, eARC, and ALLM. QMS and dynamic HDR would be a bonus. RUIPRO claims to support all of this in their description so hopefully that will be the case despite no certification. I couldn't care much for 8k60 or even probably 4k120 (even though my LG C9 now supports it supposedly) support since I'd rather play games at 1440p/120 until GPU power really takes a jump. I'm going to be threading these through the wall from behind my TV down to my entertainment center so I just want to have the best I'll need for at least a little while.


You keep saying passive but the cables you’re listing are all active. And you don’t need an active cable for the short length you’re talking about.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> You keep saying passive but the cables you’re listing are all active. And you don’t need an active cable for the short length you’re talking about.



Yep. At 8' or less, I'd just stay with a Premium High Speed cable until the certified, passive UHS cables are available. Active cables at that length are an overkill and performance is the same. I use


----------



## meli

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable is just the data pipe... [snip]... If it were me I'd go with the Ruipro4k passive cables.


Sorry for the basic question, but the only 4K Ruipro cables I see are the fiber ones, I thought those are considered active?
I do see 8K passive copper cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

meli said:


> Sorry for the basic question, but the only 4K Ruipro cables I see are the fiber ones, I thought those are considered active?
> I do see 8K passive copper cables.



Sorry for the confusion. Ruipro did at one time have a copper only cable that was certified for HDMI 2.0 so I must have read that too quickly. Their new fiber only cable will in fact be active as well as their new hybrid fiber cables. The 4k cable will have two iterations. One will be fiber only and be thinner and the other one will still be hybrid fiber but will be a bit thicker because of the CL2 rating. The new 8k cable will be hybrid fiber with improved design and proprietary chipsets. I haven't looked at their website (which I've told them they need to update it with a bit more specific and current information). I haven't seen or tested the 8k passive cables. I'll have to ask about that.


----------



## Adam Hook

Just found this thread after some googling and figured it was a good place to post my experience with the Ruipro 8K cable.

I have tried and somehow killed two of these cables ----> Ruipro 8K 60Hz 48Gbps HDMI Fibre Optic Cable 15mt, I had the cables connecting my PC to my Lg C9 OLED. The reason for using this particular cable was to take advantage of the new Nvidia GPU's set to be released later this year that have been confirmed to support the full HDMI 2.1 spec. I purchased my C9 specifically with this in mind as I want to play games in 4k 60hz and above with G-Sync VRR.


When the first cable died I was playing the new Ghost Recon game at 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled, everything was working fine until the screen suddenly went black and the C9 no longer recognised the HDMI connection to my PC.

I tried a range of different troubleshooting methods but the cable was dead. I contacted the retailer where I purchased the cable and he arranged RuiPro to send a replacement.

After getting the replacement cable I hooked everything back up and tried playing again at 1440p 120hz with HDR and after roughly an hour the same thing happened. I also noticed that the metal housing of the plug that was connected to the TV was surprisingly hot.

I contacted the retailer again and posted the second cable back (first one is still in the walls) so he can get it back to Ruipro for testing. Last news I had is that the cable has been sent back to China for testing and I have received a full refund from the retailer.

I have just purchased one of these to gamble on one of these CABLEDECONN 8K HDMI Optical 2.1 Cable Real UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps from Amazon. 

Just wondering if this is the right move or should I cancel this and try something else?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Adam Hook said:


> Just found this thread after some googling and figured it was a good place to post my experience with the Ruipro 8K cable.
> 
> I have tried and somehow killed two of these cables ----> Ruipro 8K 60Hz 48Gbps HDMI Fibre Optic Cable 15mt, I had the cables connecting my PC to my Lg C9 OLED. The reason for using this particular cable was to take advantage of the new Nvidia GPU's set to be released later this year that have been confirmed to support the full HDMI 2.1 spec. I purchased my C9 specifically with this in mind as I want to play games in 4k 60hz and above with G-Sync VRR.
> 
> 
> When the first cable died I was playing the new Ghost Recon game at 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled, everything was working fine until the screen suddenly went black and the C9 no longer recognised the HDMI connection to my PC.
> 
> I tried a range of different troubleshooting methods but the cable was dead. I contacted the retailer where I purchased the cable and he arranged RuiPro to send a replacement.
> 
> After getting the replacement cable I hooked everything back up and tried playing again at 1440p 120hz with HDR and after roughly an hour the same thing happened. I also noticed that the metal housing of the plug that was connected to the TV was surprisingly hot.
> 
> I contacted the retailer again and posted the second cable back (first one is still in the walls) so he can get it back to Ruipro for testing. Last news I had is that the cable has been sent back to China for testing and I have received a full refund from the retailer.
> 
> I have just purchased one of these to gamble on one of these CABLEDECONN 8K HDMI Optical 2.1 Cable Real UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps from Amazon.
> 
> Just wondering if this is the right move or should I cancel this and try something else?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Ruipro makes some of the best hybrid fiber cables around. That being said, any mfr can have issues. The fact that you had two cables with the same problem makes me wonder if it's not the cable but something else. If the cable connector to the tv was hot that's surprising because the cables are designed to pull only 50mA of current. The hot connector is possibly the cause of your video blackout. I have a C8 and have tested the first iteration of the Ruipro8k cable and they worked just fine. However, I'm not a gamer so I'm not pushing my system to its limits. I am currently using the Ruipro4k cables with no issues. 



Has LG confirmed that their HDMI 2.1 chipsets are fully compatible with all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets? If not you will be limited to the in-common option sets between the new Nvidia HDMI 2.1 chipsets and the LG's. The cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink that ultimately determine what you can reliably use without issues. 48Gbps is really meaningless unless both source and sink HDMI chipsets have been certified for that bandwidth and there is source material that requires it.



There is no guarantee that any cable is going to work 100% of the time in all setups. Especially once HDMI 2.1 certified chipsets are in consumer devices and the current "8k" cables are used with those systems. And, there is no guarantee that Nvidia's implementation of HDMI 2.1 will be 100% compatible with LG's implementation of HDMI 2.1.


The Cabledeconn cable is just another Chinese company that is using technology and components that are readily available. Ruipro uses proprietary components as well as readily available components in their builds and designs.


Keep in mind that no one is certifying active cables for 8k (HDMI 2.1 option sets). The only cables that will be able to be certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets will be passive cables and probably only up to a length of 3m (9'). The cables will also be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables.



Ruipro will be releasing a new version of their 8k cable in about a month or so.


----------



## Adam Hook

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro makes some of the best hybrid fiber cables around. That being said, any mfr can have issues. The fact that you had two cables with the same problem makes me wonder if it's not the cable but something else. If the cable connector to the tv was hot that's surprising because the cables are designed to pull only 50mA of current. The hot connector is possibly the cause of your video blackout. I have a C8 and have tested the first iteration of the Ruipro8k cable and they worked just fine. However, I'm not a gamer so I'm not pushing my system to its limits. I am currently using the Ruipro4k cables with no issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Has LG confirmed that their HDMI 2.1 chipsets are fully compatible with all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets? If not you will be limited to the in-common option sets between the new Nvidia HDMI 2.1 chipsets and the LG's. The cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink that ultimately determine what you can reliably use without issues. 48Gbps is really meaningless unless both source and sink HDMI chipsets have been certified for that bandwidth and there is source material that requires it.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no guarantee that any cable is going to work 100% of the time in all setups. Especially once HDMI 2.1 certified chipsets are in consumer devices and the current "8k" cables are used with those systems. And, there is no guarantee that Nvidia's implementation of HDMI 2.1 will be 100% compatible with LG's implementation of HDMI 2.1.
> 
> 
> The Cabledeconn cable is just another Chinese company that is using technology and components that are readily available. Ruipro uses proprietary components as well as readily available components in their builds and designs.
> 
> 
> Keep in mind that no one is certifying active cables for 8k (HDMI 2.1 option sets). The only cables that will be able to be certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets will be passive cables and probably only up to a length of 3m (9'). The cables will also be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables.
> 
> 
> 
> Ruipro will be releasing a new version of their 8k cable in about a month or so.


Thanks, Otto.

As far as I know, LG has advertised "full spec" HDMI 2.1 so whatever that means. Also regarding the upcoming GPUs from Nvidia, they already support G-Sync VRR on the LG TVs with the current-gen cards over HDMI 2.0b so I don't see why the feature won't carry over to the new cards.

Do you think maybe the particular HDMI port on my TV may be the issue and killing the cables somehow? I used the same port both times when testing the cables. After losing the connection between the PC and TV I tried the cable with other source devices (Nvidia Shield TV, Xiaomi Mi Box) and still couldn't get a picture. So I assume that the cable was completely dead.

I received a power injector with the cables, a male-female HDMI adaptor with a short cable that had a USB plug on the end of it, I wasn't using it on either occasion when the cables failed as there was no explicit instruction to do so. I assumed that if it was needed then I would get no signal/picture at all.


I have cancelled the Amazon order for the Cabledeconn cable, I figure that because it's going to take a month to get to me in Australia anyway I might as well wait for the new Ruipro 8k cable then.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Adam Hook said:


> Thanks, Otto.
> 
> As far as I know, LG has advertised "full spec" HDMI 2.1 so whatever that means. Also regarding the upcoming GPUs from Nvidia, they already support G-Sync VRR on the LG TVs with the current-gen cards over HDMI 2.0b so I don't see why the feature won't carry over to the new cards.
> 
> Do you think maybe the particular HDMI port on my TV may be the issue and killing the cables somehow? I used the same port both times when testing the cables. After losing the connection between the PC and TV I tried the cable with other source devices (Nvidia Shield TV, Xiaomi Mi Box) and still couldn't get a picture. So I assume that the cable was completely dead.
> 
> I received a power injector with the cables, a male-female HDMI adaptor with a short cable that had a USB plug on the end of it, I wasn't using it on either occasion when the cables failed as there was no explicit instruction to do so. I assumed that if it was needed then I would get no signal/picture at all.
> 
> 
> I have cancelled the Amazon order for the Cabledeconn cable, I figure that because it's going to take a month to get to me in Australia anyway I might as well wait for the new Ruipro 8k cable then.



I haven't looked at the C9 specs yet but if they advertise "full spec" HDMI 2.1, then according to the marketing guidelines from HDMI.org, they should list which HDMI 2.1 options sets are available on the shipping sets. The same for Nvidia. I would try another HDMI port on the LG with the same cable. They shouldn't be hot at all and I can't imagine how an active cable would transfer heat to the HDMI port unless it was drawing a lot more current that it's supposed to. Maybe one cable could be defective but two is suspect. I'd check with LG after you test another port with the same cable.


You might want to go ahead and try the voltage inserter at the sink end and see what happens. You can get audio/video but it may have sparkles, drop outs, etc because of the inconsistent current. The inserter is 5v/500ma so it may "protect" the HDMI port from excessive current draw if that's the case. It can't hurt.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> I haven't looked at the C9 specs yet but if they advertise "full spec" HDMI 2.1, then according to the marketing guidelines from HDMI.org, they should list which HDMI 2.1 options sets are available on the shipping sets.


LG has never used "full spec" or even "HDMI 2.1" in any of their marketing materials for the C9. Just VRR, ALLM, eARC and 48Gbps.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> LG has never used "full spec" or even "HDMI 2.1" in any of their marketing materials for the C9. Just VRR, ALLM, eARC and 48Gbps.



That's what I thought but I hadn't kept up with the C9's so that's why I framed my response in that way. Thanks for confirming. The confusing part is those specs are part of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, especially 48Gbps, which would certainly imply HDMI 2.1. I really dislike the marketeers and HDMI in general.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> That's what I thought but I hadn't kept up with the C9's so that's why I framed my response in that way. Thanks for confirming. The confusing part is those specs are part of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, especially 48Gbps, which would certainly imply HDMI 2.1. I really dislike the marketeers and HDMI in general.


Looks like Manufacturer's are avoiding putting "HDMI 2.1" on anything. Denon for example is labeling their 40Gbps ports as "8K".

I'm not a fan of marketing either.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Looks like Manufacturer's are avoiding putting "HDMI 2.1" on anything. Denon for example is labeling their 40Gbps ports as "8K".
> 
> I'm not a fan of marketing either.



Ever since HDMI 2.1 was first announced I've been saying that the marketing machines were going to push it like they did for HDMI 2.0 with carefully worded and unverified claims, for the sole purpose of confusing the consumers to sell devices and peripherals. The majority of the buying public is not as OCD as we are here on AVS so they will read what they want to read and take the product descriptions and paid reviewers as gospel.


A "40Gbps" port? Don't you mean 48Gbps? Minor difference being as there isn't any source material (as far as I know) that requires that bandwidth so no way to verify how well it will work with consumer devices.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> A "40Gbps" port? Don't you mean 48Gbps? Minor difference being as there isn't any source material (as far as I know) that requires that bandwidth so no way to verify how well it will work with consumer devices.


No. I mean 40Gbps. They just announced it in a bunch of videos. One 8K (40Gbps) input and two 8K (40Gbps) outputs.

The LG CX is also 40Gbps. It caused quite a stir in the CX owner's thread as they initially advertised it as 48Gbps on some of their websites.

C9 EDID snippet:


Code:


  Vendor-Specific Data Block (HDMI Forum), OUI C4-5D-D8:
    Version: 1
    Maximum TMDS Character Rate: 600 MHz
    SCDC Present
    Max Fixed Rate Link: 3 and 6 Gbps per lane on 3 lanes, 6, 8, 10 and 12 Gbps on 4 lanes
    Supports 12-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
    Supports 10-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
    Supports Mdelta
    Supports Auto Low-Latency Mode
    VRRmin: 40 Hz
    VRRmax: 120 Hz

CX EDID snippet:


Code:


  Vendor-Specific Data Block (HDMI Forum), OUI C4-5D-D8:
    Version: 1
    Maximum TMDS Character Rate: 600 MHz
    SCDC Present
    Max Fixed Rate Link: 3 and 6 Gbps per lane on 3 lanes, 6, 8 and 10 Gbps on 4 lanes
    Supports 12-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
    Supports 10-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
    Supports Mdelta
    Supports Auto Low-Latency Mode
    VRRmin: 40 Hz
    VRRmax: 120 Hz

HDMI 2.1's new Fixed Rate Link can run at 9Gbps and 18Gbps on 3 lanes, 24Gbps, 32Gbps, 40Gbps and 48Gbps on 4 lanes. The C9 advertises 48Gbps maximum while the CX only 40Gbps maximum.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> No. I mean 40Gbps. They just announced it in a bunch of videos. One 8K (40Gbps) input and two 8K (40Gbps) outputs.
> 
> The LG CX is also 40Gbps. It caused quite a stir in the CX owner's thread as they initially advertised it as 48Gbps on some of their websites.
> 
> C9 EDID snippet:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Vendor-Specific Data Block (HDMI Forum), OUI C4-5D-D8:
> Version: 1
> Maximum TMDS Character Rate: 600 MHz
> SCDC Present
> Max Fixed Rate Link: 3 and 6 Gbps per lane on 3 lanes, 6, 8, 10 and 12 Gbps on 4 lanes
> Supports 12-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
> Supports 10-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
> Supports Mdelta
> Supports Auto Low-Latency Mode
> VRRmin: 40 Hz
> VRRmax: 120 Hz
> 
> CX EDID snippet:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Vendor-Specific Data Block (HDMI Forum), OUI C4-5D-D8:
> Version: 1
> Maximum TMDS Character Rate: 600 MHz
> SCDC Present
> Max Fixed Rate Link: 3 and 6 Gbps per lane on 3 lanes, 6, 8 and 10 Gbps on 4 lanes
> Supports 12-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
> Supports 10-bits/component Deep Color 4:2:0 Pixel Encoding
> Supports Mdelta
> Supports Auto Low-Latency Mode
> VRRmin: 40 Hz
> VRRmax: 120 Hz
> 
> HDMI 2.1's new Fixed Rate Link can run at 9Gbps and 18Gbps on 3 lanes, 24Gbps, 32Gbps, 40Gbps and 48Gbps on 4 lanes. The C9 advertises 48Gbps maximum while the CX only 40Gbps maximum.



Very interesting! So, the C9 is 48Gbps capable but the CX is not? Wow. And Denon is doing the same thing?


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Very interesting! So, the C9 is 48Gbps capable but the CX is not? Wow. And Denon is doing the same thing?


Yes. For the CX it's not that big an issue as it's only a 10-bit panel so 4K 120Hz 4:4:4/RGB 10-bit works fine. One possible problem is that Nvidia doesn't do 10-bit, only 8 or 12, on current consumer cards.

On the Denon it's a little disappointing as AVRs tend not to be upgraded for 5-10 years easy. So if a 12-bit panel comes out, either true or temporally dithered, and you upgrade your TV then you're out of luck.

One benefit of 48Gbps over 40Gbps are that you get a 16.67% input lag reduction for 4K 120Hz 4:4:4/RGB 10-bit content using VRR or QFT. 

There's also 1440P 144Hz 4:4:4/RGB 10-bit but we'll have to wait for monitors to support that or TV's with a higher than 120Hz refresh. Unfortunately Denon doesn't have a true pass through mode and doesn't allow 1440p at any refresh rate.

We're also waiting to find out if the next gen console will be 40Gbps or 48Gbps. The Denon rep hinted that they'll be 40Gbps but I want to hear that from Microsoft and Sony.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^^ good info. thanks.


----------



## 5468467984

Has anyone been able to get their hands on 56Gbps upto 50 meters Fibbrtech HDMI cable which made news in 2018? I haven't seen a single specimen in the wild. 

And how can these data rates be verified in absence of HDMI 2.1 consoles and PCs as of now?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Has anyone been able to get their hands on 56Gbps upto 50 meters Fibbrtech HDMI cable which made news in 2018? I haven't seen a single specimen in the wild.
> 
> And how can these data rates be verified in absence of HDMI 2.1 consoles and PCs as of now?



56Gbps Fibbertech cable sounds like the name, a fib. There is no such thing because they can't be verified. HDMI 2.0 is standardized around 18Gbps and HDMI 2.1 is standardized around 48Gbps, as you know. Certification for cables that can reliably handle the HDMI 2.1 options sets are still being validated for certification. Even if you have a cable that is rated at 50Gbps, the HDMI 2.1 standard will only transmit at 48Gbps once source material is available that requires than bandwidth and there are HDMI 2.1 certified devices.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> 56Gbps Fibbertech cable sounds like the name, a fib. There is no such thing because they can't be verified. HDMI 2.0 is standardized around 18Gbps and HDMI 2.1 is standardized around 48Gbps, as you know. Certification for cables that can reliably handle the HDMI 2.1 options sets are still being validated for certification. Even if you have a cable that is rated at 50Gbps, the HDMI 2.1 standard will only transmit at 48Gbps once source material is available that requires than bandwidth and there are HDMI 2.1 certified devices.


The Fibbr 8k HDMI cable seems to be available in Australia at a "bargain basement" price! See https://www.audiotrends.com.au/fibbr-ultra-8k-hdmi-cable-20-metre.html


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> The Fibbr 8k HDMI cable seems to be available in Australia at a "bargain basement" price! See https://www.audiotrends.com.au/fibbr-ultra-8k-hdmi-cable-20-metre.html


Uhh, yeah. Fiber only? No thanks. "Compatible" 8k? No thanks . $4,800? I'll take two.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> 56Gbps Fibbertech cable sounds like the name, a fib. There is no such thing because they can't be verified. HDMI 2.0 is standardized around 18Gbps and HDMI 2.1 is standardized around 48Gbps, as you know. Certification for cables that can reliably handle the HDMI 2.1 options sets are still being validated for certification. Even if you have a cable that is rated at 50Gbps, the HDMI 2.1 standard will only transmit at 48Gbps once source material is available that requires than bandwidth and there are HDMI 2.1 certified devices.


Not trying to be rude, but I think you just regurgitated what everyone knows, without actually answering the questions.

#1 . Has anyone used the mentioned cable?
#2 . How are these data rates being measured?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Not trying to be rude, but I think you just regurgitated what everyone knows, without actually answering the questions.
> 
> #1 . Has anyone used the mentioned cable?
> #2 . How are these data rates being measured?



No offense taken. I often re-mention what a lot of folks already know, because there are a lot of newbies, lurkers, and other folks who don't want to post but are looking for information. So a lot of my respones will be a sort of shotgun approach because we never know what the poster knows, or doesn't know.


To answer your questions, there were some discussions a few months ago about Fibbr cables in general which, if I remember correctly, were not very positive because of the claims made and no way to verify those claims. I don't recal the 56Gbps cable being mentioned specifically or if someone had purchased a Fibbr cable and was having issues.



Data rates can be measured a number of ways. Real time oscilloscops (RT Scope), TMDS time domain analyzer, etc. It's nice to know if a cable can transmit data successfully and pass CTS but it really means nothing until there are consumer devices and sourc material that requires those bandwidths, and the logic required to decode the information is built-in to the new generation of HDMI chipsets, which hopefully are standardized to the point that it works the same across all mfrs. I for one want to see a data sheet from an independent testing lab to verify a mfrs claims. A lot of cable mfrs don't give you any more information than what is in their product description and marketing claims so it's anybody's guess as to how data rates and other aspects of the HDMI 2.1 options sets are verified.



If "future proofing" is the ultimate goal then the only way to achieve that is to design easy access to your cabling. Ruipro's new 8k cable, when released, has been clocked at 50Gbps and is actually tested by an ATC, but being as it is an active cable, they cannot be certified. That's nice to know but once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild, 48Gbps is standard so 50Gbps, 56Gbps or whatever won't give you any better performance as long as the standard is being maintained.


----------



## moonw5

> Bottom line is that so far I like Ruipro 8K pending further testing with JVC NX7 projector arriving Tuesday (before I snake through ceiling). I will likely run at least 2 HDMI cables through ceiling for redundancy. Probably Ruipro 8K and 4K cable + possibly the projector installer's cable (Straightwire 4K/18Gbps) so that he can't blame any failures on me.


Hoping for a follow-up of the Ruipro with your NX7 installation. I currently have an NX7 on order hooking up to a Denon 7200WA receiver, and am researching cabling myself. I currently own a BJC Series one 35 foot HDMI cable which won't be sufficient for 4k at that distance. I will be hooking up an Apple TV 4K and Xbox One S to the receiver.

Cheers


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> No offense taken. I often re-mention what a lot of folks already know, because there are a lot of newbies, lurkers, and other folks who don't want to post but are looking for information. So a lot of my respones will be a sort of shotgun approach because we never know what the poster knows, or doesn't know.
> 
> 
> To answer your questions, there were some discussions a few months ago about Fibbr cables in general which, if I remember correctly, were not very positive because of the claims made and no way to verify those claims. I don't recal the 56Gbps cable being mentioned specifically or if someone had purchased a Fibbr cable and was having issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Data rates can be measured a number of ways. Real time oscilloscops (RT Scope), TMDS time domain analyzer, etc. It's nice to know if a cable can transmit data successfully and pass CTS but it really means nothing until there are consumer devices and sourc material that requires those bandwidths, and the logic required to decode the information is built-in to the new generation of HDMI chipsets, which hopefully are standardized to the point that it works the same across all mfrs. I for one want to see a data sheet from an independent testing lab to verify a mfrs claims. A lot of cable mfrs don't give you any more information than what is in their product description and marketing claims so it's anybody's guess as to how data rates and other aspects of the HDMI 2.1 options sets are verified.
> 
> 
> 
> If "future proofing" is the ultimate goal then the only way to achieve that is to design easy access to your cabling. Ruipro's new 8k cable, when released, has been clocked at 50Gbps and is actually tested by an ATC, but being as it is an active cable, they cannot be certified. That's nice to know but once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild, 48Gbps is standard so 50Gbps, 56Gbps or whatever won't give you any better performance as long as the standard is being maintained.


Thanks Otto, so looks like it is no different than measuring the data throughput of a transceiver over om3 or om4 fiber, which I am guessing is what they use inside these HDMI cables as well. I was hoping they may have some real HDMI sources tied and actually validate the picture at certain data rates.

Anyway, I just wanted to stay a little above the 48Gbps requirement. I guess 50Gbps would do just fine, gives me 4-5% for overheads. 

I am essentially moving my TV by another 15ft, so my current 25ft cable wouldn't cut it anymore. So, since I would have to buy a new cable, I just didn't want to buy another one in September again when new Big Navi and RTX3xxx series arrive with 48gbps PHYs.

EDIT: is this RUIPro stuff any good? I haven't used them, and this the first I am hearing about it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Thanks Otto, so looks like it is no different than measuring the data throughput of a transceiver over om3 or om4 fiber, which I am guessing is what they use inside these HDMI cables as well. I was hoping they may have some real HDMI sources tied and actually validate the picture at certain data rates.
> 
> Anyway, I just wanted to stay a little above the 48Gbps requirement. I guess 50Gbps would do just fine, gives me 4-5% for overheads.
> 
> I am essentially moving my TV by another 15ft, so my current 25ft cable wouldn't cut it anymore. So, since I would have to buy a new cable, I just didn't want to buy another one in September again when new Big Navi and RTX3xxx series arrive with 48gbps PHYs.
> 
> EDIT: is this RUIPro stuff any good? I haven't used them, and this the first I am hearing about it.



There are no videos that I am aware of that are encoded for 8k, 48Gbps that are available to test on consumer systems. There are also no native 12-bit panels that can really show what 8k etc is all about. There are pattern generators and other equipment to test the bandwidth and other options for HDMI 2.1 but you're basically up to the mfr's claims. Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC following testing equipment and protocols approved by HDMI.org so there is some standardization. But, as I mentioned, they are active cables so they can't be marketed as certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables nor can they get the QR label for authenticity. Ruipro is not the only quality cable mfr for the HDMI 2.1 options sets but they do seem to be the only one who releases some of their testing data so that's something in my book.


One of the biggest drawbacks is eARC, which has issues for any cable mfr over about 15m (45') but hopefully the new designs of the chipsets are able to overcome that and be able to push that distance further.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> There are no videos that I am aware of that are encoded for 8k, 48Gbps that are available to test on consumer systems. There are also no native 12-bit panels that can really show what 8k etc is all about. There are pattern generators and other equipment to test the bandwidth and other options for HDMI 2.1 but you're basically up to the mfr's claims. Ruipro cables are tested by an ATC following testing equipment and protocols approved by HDMI.org so there is some standardization. But, as I mentioned, they are active cables so they can't be marketed as certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables nor can they get the QR label for authenticity. Ruipro is not the only quality cable mfr for the HDMI 2.1 options sets but they do seem to be the only one who releases some of their testing data so that's something in my book.
> 
> 
> One of the biggest drawbacks is eARC, which has issues for any cable mfr over about 15m (45') but hopefully the new designs of the chipsets are able to overcome that and be able to push that distance further.


Yea, I read where a manufacturer was able to produce active 48Gbps cables up to 100 meters, but eARC only up to 20 meters. Which boggles my mind a bit, because an optical signal is an optical signal, why would distance impact eARC as long as signal gets there in a reasonable amount of time (which for 20 meter is 0.06usec and for 100m is 0.33usec, and are both quite reasonable for realtime communication). Is there some signal that gets carried over copper in those active fiber cables?

EDIT: And just wondering, do active cables have to be certified for VRR, QFT and QMS? Or if source and destination are compatible these features would just work as long as the required bandwidth is there?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Yea, I read where a manufacturer was able to produce active 48Gbps cables up to 100 meters, but eARC only up to 20 meters. Which boggles my mind a bit, because an optical signal is an optical signal, why would distance impact eARC as long as signal gets there in a reasonable amount of time (which for 20 meter is 0.06usec and for 100m is 0.33usec, and are both quite reasonable for realtime communication). Is there some signal that gets carried over copper in those active fiber cables?
> 
> EDIT: And just wondering, do active cables have to be certified for VRR, QFT and QMS? Or if source and destination are compatible these features would just work as long as the required bandwidth is there?



This is where hybrid fiber cables become the cable of choice. The bundle of optical fibers (number depends on the mfr) carries the high bandwidth requirements for HDMI 2.1 (mostly audio and video) and the copper wiring (hence the name "hybrid") carry the low bandwidth requirements (ARC, HDCP, EDID) which are basically the "communication" aspects of the data stream. The current necessary to carry the options needs to be consistent, and in the case of ARC or eARC, the same in both directions. That's one of the reasons why as you reach 15m, any variation in the current can affect the audio portion. And part of that is consistent current output at the HDMI port so the active portion of the connector ends can do their thing. That's one of the reasons that some mfrs will supply a voltage inserter with their cables in case a more consistent and reliable power source is needed because there is too much fluctuation at the HDMI port. It would be nice if the HDMI chip mfrs redesigned the structure of the chipsets so that they could output more than the 50mA current that active cables need to power their chipsets. A 5v/500mA HDMI port would be nice.


As to VRR, QFT, and QMS those are required option sets for HDMI 2.1, but whether there is required standardization (implementation) or not I'm not sure. The HDMI.org site has become very obtuse and confusing now to find accurate and relevant information, for what ever reason. If they are required standardization then all device mfrs who offer those options in the HDMI 2.1 chipsets have to follow the same protocols for 100% compatibility. I'm hoping that's the case, otherwise they will be like CEC, which is required to be offered but the implementation is up to the device mfr, which, in turn, leads to incompatibilities between different mfrs and sometimes within the same mfr.


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> Yea, I read where a manufacturer was able to produce active 48Gbps cables up to 100 meters, but eARC only up to 20 meters. Which boggles my mind a bit, because an optical signal is an optical signal, why would distance impact eARC as long as signal gets there in a reasonable amount of time (which for 20 meter is 0.06usec and for 100m is 0.33usec, and are both quite reasonable for realtime communication). Is there some signal that gets carried over copper in those active fiber cables?


Unlike the four TMDS/FRL lines used for the video signal, the eARC signal is bidirectional. There is some data that needs to go the other way from the audio. This is tricky to do as the tx/rx chips in the cable have to figure out which way the data is going. So most manufacturers just use copper for that pair.

The ironic thing is that that channel was originally meant for Ethernet and Ethernet can do 100 meters over copper.



Soul_ said:


> EDIT: And just wondering, do active cables have to be certified for VRR, QFT and QMS? Or if source and destination are compatible these features would just work as long as the required bandwidth is there?


No. The cable does not care what pattern of bits are sent over it.


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## 5468467984

avernar said:


> Unlike the four TMDS/FRL lines used for the video signal, the eARC signal is bidirectional. There is some data that needs to go the other way from the audio. This is tricky to do as the tx/rx chips in the cable have to figure out which way the data is going. So most manufacturers just use copper for that pair.


Hmm... We do this in datacenter today where the Bi-Di transceivers do up to 100Gbps over OM4 fiber with just two strands. This includes sensing which way the communication has to flow. But I am guessing that cost could be prohibitive to use them for HDMI, as those transceivers are about 2k a pair. 

These HDMI manufacturers seem to be using 4 strands, which was an older technique to hit 40Gbps, known as QSFP. 

O well.. maybe this will improve as the Bi-Di cost will come down in next 5 years.



avernar said:


> No. The cable does not care what pattern of bits are sent over it.


That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure .






Otto Pylot said:


> This is where hybrid fiber cables become the cable of choice. The bundle of optical fibers (number depends on the mfr) carries the high bandwidth requirements for HDMI 2.1 (mostly audio and video) and the copper wiring (hence the name "hybrid") carry the low bandwidth requirements (ARC, HDCP, EDID) which are basically the "communication" aspects of the data stream. The current necessary to carry the options needs to be consistent, and in the case of ARC or eARC, the same in both directions. That's one of the reasons why as you reach 15m, any variation in the current can affect the audio portion. And part of that is consistent current output at the HDMI port so the active portion of the connector ends can do their thing. That's one of the reasons that some mfrs will supply a voltage inserter with their cables in case a more consistent and reliable power source is needed because there is too much fluctuation at the HDMI port. It would be nice if the HDMI chip mfrs redesigned the structure of the chipsets so that they could output more than the 50mA current that active cables need to power their chipsets. A 5v/500mA HDMI port would be nice.


Ahhh.. I see. Thanks Otto. This electrical signal could potentially be coded into optical signals as well, and decoded on the other end back into electrical. But I guess that will be cost prohibitive.


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> Hmm... We do this in datacenter today where the Bi-Di transceivers do up to 100Gbps over OM4 fiber with just two strands. This includes sensing which way the communication has to flow. But I am guessing that cost could be prohibitive to use them for HDMI, as those transceivers are about 2k a pair.
> 
> These HDMI manufacturers seem to be using 4 strands, which was an older technique to hit 40Gbps, known as QSFP.


QSFP is the form factor and interface between the module and the switch/router. Has nothing to do with how many fibers are used. All modules (SFP, SFP+, SFP28, QSFP, QSFP+, QSFP28, QSFP56, etc) have separate TX and RX pins. Each direction either uses a separate fiber or a separate wavelength. The modules never have to determine which way the communication has to flow. In fact it flows in both directions simultaneously. It's full duplex.

The Ethernet channel, which eARC uses, is half-duplex. This means the converter chips on either end need to figure out which way the data flows. One thing I forgot last time was that the audio portion uses differential signalling. The data channel that goes each way is common mode. This means it's even more susceptible to noise. It also makes sending this over fiber more complicated as you have two different signalling schemes overlaid on top of each other.


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## Otto Pylot

+1


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## 5468467984

avernar said:


> QSFP is the form factor and interface between the module and the switch/router. Has nothing to do with how many fibers are used. All modules (SFP, SFP+, SFP28, QSFP, QSFP+, QSFP28, QSFP56, etc) have separate TX and RX pins. Each direction either uses a separate fiber or a separate wavelength.


You are right it is a form factor, but what I was speaking to is its application on MPO transceivers in early generations of 40gbps, where 40gbps was near impossible on 2 strands, and you needed 4 strands for it. For the rest, including bidi, the normal SFP form factor works fine.

The Point that I was trying to make is, it is absolutely possible to push 100Gbps bidirectional on 2 strands upto 100m.



avernar said:


> In fact it flows in both directions simultaneously. It's full duplex.


Correct, but that is the difference between simplex, half duplex and full duplex, where you would just need 1 strand for half and simplex, but two strands for full duplex as tx and rx get dedicated strands.



avernar said:


> The Ethernet channel, which eARC uses, is half-duplex. This means the converter chips on either end need to figure out which way the data flows. One thing I forgot last time was that the audio portion uses differential signalling. The data channel that goes each way is common mode. This means it's even more susceptible to noise. It also makes sending this over fiber more complicated as you have two different signalling schemes overlaid on top of each other.


This makes sense for eARC. Possibly why this is still sitting on copper.


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## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> This makes sense for eARC. Possibly why this is still sitting on copper.



I always found it interesting that cable mfrs would push "with ethernet" as a selling point when in fact that was an option that was never embraced by the industry. Now, with eARC, that channel can finally be used. Hopefully the cable/chip mfrs can overcome the distance issue with eARC and everyone can be happy


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> I always found it interesting that cable mfrs would push "with ethernet" as a selling point when in fact that was an option that was never embraced by the industry.


Because it probably cost them next to nothing to just twist one more pair in the cable. Then one manufacturer puts "with Ethernet" on their cable and the sheeple think it better than one without it even through they don't need it. Then all the manufacturers start doing it.

That's why I hate marketing departments. Fortunately this time it worked out for us in the end.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> That's why I hate marketing departments. Fortunately this time it worked out for us in the end.



I think we've had this discussion before about hating the cable marketeers  It has worked out as you mentioned, at least so far. Distance is the killah though!


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## [email protected]

Adam Hook said:


> Just found this thread after some googling and figured it was a good place to post my experience with the Ruipro 8K cable.
> 
> 
> 
> I have tried and somehow killed two of these cables ----> Ruipro 8K 60Hz 48Gbps HDMI Fibre Optic Cable 15mt, I had the cables connecting my PC to my Lg C9 OLED. The reason for using this particular cable was to take advantage of the new Nvidia GPU's set to be released later this year that have been confirmed to support the full HDMI 2.1 spec. I purchased my C9 specifically with this in mind as I want to play games in 4k 60hz and above with G-Sync VRR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the first cable died I was playing the new Ghost Recon game at 1440p 120hz with HDR enabled, everything was working fine until the screen suddenly went black and the C9 no longer recognised the HDMI connection to my PC.
> 
> 
> 
> I tried a range of different troubleshooting methods but the cable was dead. I contacted the retailer where I purchased the cable and he arranged RuiPro to send a replacement.
> 
> 
> 
> After getting the replacement cable I hooked everything back up and tried playing again at 1440p 120hz with HDR and after roughly an hour the same thing happened. I also noticed that the metal housing of the plug that was connected to the TV was surprisingly hot.
> 
> 
> 
> I contacted the retailer again and posted the second cable back (first one is still in the walls) so he can get it back to Ruipro for testing. Last news I had is that the cable has been sent back to China for testing and I have received a full refund from the retailer.
> 
> 
> 
> I have just purchased one of these to gamble on one of these CABLEDECONN 8K HDMI Optical 2.1 Cable Real UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps from Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wondering if this is the right move or should I cancel this and try something else?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Thanks for your post. I placed an order for 2 cables with the same spec as yours but have now cancelled, given your feedback. Ugreen are selling a similar cable and I was wondering what did you go for in the end?

I am after a 1m 8K, e-arc cable too but with all the marketing bluff and no certifications it kinda hard to know which one to go for. 

Best,
V

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> Sorry for the confusion. Ruipro did at one time have a copper only cable that was certified for HDMI 2.0 so I must have read that too quickly. Their new fiber only cable will in fact be active as well as their new hybrid fiber cables. The 4k cable will have two iterations. One will be fiber only and be thinner and the other one will still be hybrid fiber but will be a bit thicker because of the CL2 rating. The new 8k cable will be hybrid fiber with improved design and proprietary chipsets. I haven't looked at their website (which I've told them they need to update it with a bit more specific and current information). I haven't seen or tested the 8k passive cables. I'll have to ask about that.


I will be interested in your feedback on what you think of rupiro 8k passive copper cables. They're advertised on Amazon UK for £15.99. 

I think I am going to go for monoprice certified premium cables for now until you or someone else has tested these so called 8k passive copper cables or there is certifications.

Look forward to your review in the future. 

Best,
V

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> I will be interested in your feedback on what you think of rupiro 8k passive copper cables. They're advertised on Amazon UK for £15.99.
> 
> I think I am going to go for monoprice certified premium cables for now until you or someone else has tested these so called 8k passive copper cables or there is certifications.
> 
> Look forward to your review in the future.
> 
> Best,
> V
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



I tested the first iteration of the Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables late last year and they worked at the length that I tested. Their performance was the same as Premium High Speed HDMI cables and their 4k cables (which I am still using on my two HTS's). Ruipro does not offer a passive 8k cable that I am aware of unless the length is less than 9'. However, I have no need for ARC nor am I a gamer so VRR etc was not tested. To be honest, there is no need for 8k (48Gbps) cables at this point in time until there are devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets (that cover all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets) and there is source material available that will require the 48Gbps bandwidth. etc. As long as one has easy access to their cabling then Premium High Speed cables should work fine for now and you can upgrade your cabling when the time comes. Chances are that once HDMI 2.1 devices and source material is widely available and in consumer's hands, cable requirements will probably change a bit and an upgrade will be needed. Ruipro will be releasing a newer version of their active hybrid fiber 8k cables I'm hoping around August. A new fiber only and hybrid fiber 4k cable is coming out soon as well.



Certified passive cables for HDMI 2.1 will probably max out at 9' (3m) as outlined in the HDMI 2.1 specifications.


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## Tweakophyte

Otto Pylot said:


> I tested the first iteration of the Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cables late last year and they worked at the length that I tested. Their performance was the same as Premium High Speed HDMI cables and their 4k cables (which I am still using on my two HTS's). Ruipro does not offer a passive 8k cable that I am aware of unless the length is less than 9'. However, I have no need for ARC nor am I a gamer so VRR etc was not tested. To be honest, there is no need for 8k (48Gbps) cables at this point in time until there are devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets (that cover all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets) and there is source material available that will require the 48Gbps bandwidth. etc. As long as one has easy access to their cabling then Premium High Speed cables should work fine for now and you can upgrade your cabling when the time comes. Chances are that once HDMI 2.1 devices and source material is widely available and in consumer's hands, cable requirements will probably change a bit and an upgrade will be needed.* Ruipro will be releasing a newer version of their active hybrid fiber 8k cables I'm hoping around August. A new fiber only and hybrid fiber 4k cable is coming out soon as well.
> *
> 
> 
> Certified passive cables for HDMI 2.1 will probably max out at 9' (3m) as outlined in the HDMI 2.1 specifications.


Are you certain of the *bolded *item? I only have 4K in my chain but need/want eARC to go with a Denon x3700H. I'd take an interim solution (for 10meters) but this is somewhat cost prohibitive as the 4K cables with eARC are too expensive to be a temporary item. That is why I am thinking about the Ruipro8K hybrid cable they sell today.

Thoughts?


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## Otto Pylot

Tweakophyte said:


> Are you certain of the *bolded *item? I only have 4K in my chain but need/want eARC to go with a Denon x3700H. I'd take an interim solution (for 10meters) but this is somewhat cost prohibitive as the 4K cables with eARC are too expensive to be a temporary item. That is why I am thinking about the Ruipro8K hybrid cable they sell today.
> 
> Thoughts?



The last time I talked to Ruipro they were coming out with a new, fiber only, 4k cable with a thicker jacket to meet CL2 requirements, a thinner upgraded 4k cable and an upgraded 8k cable. Given the CV-19 issues and lockdowns, production and testing is way behind schedule but they are supposed to be releasing all three very soon. I can't give you an exact date at present. eARC/VRR is capable with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets now if your device mfr chooses to update their chipsets. You can try the current version of their 8k cables but eARC had issues at about the 15 meter mark. eARC over about 10m is going to be difficult for any cable mfr because of the consistency of the 50mA current output that is required for the active cables. That's why Ruipro provides a voltage inserter with their 8k cables (at least they did for the ones that I tested) in case issues were caused by fluctuating current output for the HDMI port. This appears to be more of an issue with projectors but it can happen with other devices as well. No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cables will work with all setups and devices, regardless of their marketing or product descriptions. Ruipro has a very good reputation for quality builds, proprietary chipsets in their connector ends, and reliability from actual AVS users. That's why they are recommended. They also have very good support.


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## Adam Hook

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for your post. I placed an order for 2 cables with the same spec as yours but have now cancelled, given your feedback. Ugreen are selling a similar cable and I was wondering what did you go for in the end?
> 
> I am after a 1m 8K, e-arc cable too but with all the marketing bluff and no certifications it kinda hard to know which one to go for.
> 
> Best,
> V
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Sorry for the late reply mate.

I cancelled the amazon cable and have decided to wait for the updated 8k cables from Ruipro and try again. I can't find anything else on the market that is at least a little bit reputable to try at the moment.


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> I am after a 1m 8K, e-arc cable too but with all the marketing bluff and no certifications it kinda hard to know which one to go for.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



A 1m (3') certified 8k cable will be passive only and be marketed as Ultra High Speed HDMI cable when they become available. An active hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro8k is an overkill and an expensive one at that. I don't know if Ruipro will be offering their new 8k cable at that length. At 3m, you may be able to get away with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet provided that your source and sink devices are capable of eARC.


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## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> The last time I talked to Ruipro they were coming out with a new, fiber only, 4k cable with a thicker jacket to meet CL2 requirements, a thinner upgraded 4k cable and an upgraded 8k cable. Given the CV-19 issues and lockdowns, production and testing is way behind schedule but they are supposed to be releasing all three very soon. I can't give you an exact date at present. eARC/VRR is capable with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets now if your device mfr chooses to update their chipsets. You can try the current version of their 8k cables but eARC had issues at about the 15 meter mark. eARC over about 10m is going to be difficult for any cable mfr because of the consistency of the 50mA current output that is required for the active cables. That's why Ruipro provides a voltage inserter with their 8k cables (at least they did for the ones that I tested) in case issues were caused by fluctuating current output for the HDMI port. This appears to be more of an issue with projectors but it can happen with other devices as well. No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cables will work with all setups and devices, regardless of their marketing or product descriptions. Ruipro has a very good reputation for quality builds, proprietary chipsets in their connector ends, and reliability from actual AVS users. That's why they are recommended. They also have very good support.


This is what rupiro on amazon are selling as ultra high speed copper cable meeting hdmi 2.1 spec sheet. Here is the image. I have held off buying an 8k passive cable as that's what I need and waiting for reputable cables come to market. 











Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## [email protected]

Adam Hook said:


> Sorry for the late reply mate.
> 
> 
> 
> I cancelled the amazon cable and have decided to wait for the updated 8k cables from Ruipro and try again. I can't find anything else on the market that is at least a little bit reputable to try at the moment.


Thanks for getting back. I am holding off too atm. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> This is what rupiro on amazon are selling as ultra high speed copper cable meeting hdmi 2.1 spec sheet. Here is the image. I have held off buying an 8k passive cable as that's what I need and waiting for reputable cables come to market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



Is that cable coming directly from Ruipro or a third party? There is no mention in the description that indicates Ultra High Speed HDMI. It does say "8k HDMI 2.1 Cable", which is technically against the HDMI.org guidelines for marketing because the hardware protocol number is not supposed to be used to imply HDMI 2.1 option sets without specifying which option sets the cables have been tested for. Ruipro has had issues in the past with Amazon resellers "beefing up" the product descriptions to the point of almost being misleading. It is very difficult for Ruipro, and other cable mfrs, to keep tabs on how their products are being marketed by third party resellers. If you can get a mfr product number from the ad then I'd contact Ruipro directly and see what they have to say. I do know that some of their copper only passive cables have been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0 by an ATC, but I'm not sure if certification for HDMI 2.1, which would be Ultra High Speed HDMI instead of Premium High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps) has been done yet.


----------



## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> Is that cable coming directly from Ruipro or a third party? There is no mention in the description that indicates Ultra High Speed HDMI. It does say "8k HDMI 2.1 Cable", which is technically against the HDMI.org guidelines for marketing because the hardware protocol number is not supposed to be used to imply HDMI 2.1 option sets without specifying which option sets the cables have been tested for. Ruipro has had issues in the past with Amazon resellers "beefing up" the product descriptions to the point of almost being misleading. It is very difficult for Ruipro, and other cable mfrs, to keep tabs on how their products are being marketed by third party resellers. If you can get a mfr product number from the ad then I'd contact Ruipro directly and see what they have to say. I do know that some of their copper only passive cables have been tested and certified for HDMI 2.0 by an ATC, but I'm not sure if certification for HDMI 2.1, which would be Ultra High Speed HDMI instead of Premium High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps) has been done yet.


This is what is listed on amazon in terms of product number and address. 










Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> This is what is listed on amazon in terms of product number and address.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk



That is the correct Ruipro product number so that could very well be their first generation passive 8k cable. At 1m (3') you shouldn't have any issues as long as you keep the bend radius gentle and don't put any undo stress on the HDMI port. Just keep in mind that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work for all setups and connected devices. The cost seems reasonable so try it. Ruipro support is good to work with so if you have any issues, they are really responsive to the customer.


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## lostinthesauce

Hey! Long time forum lurker here. I recently ordered a JVC NX7 and am unsure what to do for the cable installation. I would like to future proof so I don't have to replace an HDMI 2.0 cable when I upgrade to 8k/beyond. The projector will be ceiling mounted so the cable will be run through a wall. (The run shouldn't be more than 15-20ft)

In another thread from a couple months ago, Otto said "If your cable run is in-wall, then the ONLY future proof you can do is install conduit." With the lack of 2.1 certification, it seems this is still the case. I'm still a bit of a noob, so hopefully what I'm about to ask makes sense. When you say "install conduit," you're talking about a Cat6/other cable, correct? If I do go with that then I think I will need some sort of HDBaseT device. Currently, those max out at 4k/60hz since they're HDMI 2.0. That means I would need to upgrade that to an HDMI 2.1 version when I upgrade the projector.

All of that seems much more complicated than just installing a 48Gbps capable cable, but I guess that's the cost of future-proofing. I'm just trying to understand my options. Thanks in advance!


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## Postmoderndesign

Otto is correct.

Conduit is simply a hollow tube run from a source point such as where your internet comes into your house to a distribution point such as your family room. You can then add and subtract cables from the tube as technology advances. Here is an example: Carlon SCJ4X1C-50 RESI GUARD CONDUIT 2-Inch 50 feet. Most recommend 1 1/2 to 2" diameter. When you plot out where you will run the conduit plan a route that requires the least drilling of holes in studs. Studs that hold weight bearing structural elements such as exterior walls should be reinforced so your house will not sag or collapse.

Also, hold off buying 48 GBPS cable until it is wide use which may be a long time off.


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## Otto Pylot

lostinthesauce said:


> Hey! Long time forum lurker here. I recently ordered a JVC NX7 and am unsure what to do for the cable installation. I would like to future proof so I don't have to replace an HDMI 2.0 cable when I upgrade to 8k/beyond. The projector will be ceiling mounted so the cable will be run through a wall. (The run shouldn't be more than 15-20ft)
> 
> In another thread from a couple months ago, Otto said "If your cable run is in-wall, then the ONLY future proof you can do is install conduit." With the lack of 2.1 certification, it seems this is still the case. I'm still a bit of a noob, so hopefully what I'm about to ask makes sense. When you say "install conduit," you're talking about a Cat6/other cable, correct? If I do go with that then I think I will need some sort of HDBaseT device. Currently, those max out at 4k/60hz since they're HDMI 2.0. That means I would need to upgrade that to an HDMI 2.1 version when I upgrade the projector.
> 
> All of that seems much more complicated than just installing a 48Gbps capable cable, but I guess that's the cost of future-proofing. I'm just trying to understand my options. Thanks in advance!



Postmoderndesign is correct. A conduit is a flexible hollow tube, preferably 1.5" - 2.0" in diameter that you run your cables in. Installed with a pull string it makes for replacing cables easier, safer, and you can control bend radius better.


If you install CAT-6 or 6a cabling, you need to make sure that it is solid copper core (non-CCS/CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet cable). You can terminate the cable with either a punchdown keystone jack to extend an ethernet connection or with HDBT to extend an HDMI connection. It's always a good idea to just put a run of solid core in the conduit, with a decent service loop at each end, in case you decide later on that you may need it. HDBT is a viable option for HDMI but I would put that on the back burner for now because the new Valens chipsets (which were announced well over a year ago) still haven't been incorporated yet, at least as far as I know, so until then, video data is still compressed among other things.


I thought the NX7 was HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 only (18Gbps)? If that's the case, then I'd install a either a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified with the QR label) or an active hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k. It could be another year or longer before devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets are common so I'd wait until then to see what the fallout is and if "8k" cables sold today will work adequately with the new chipsets. It's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that determine what is sent and received, not the cable. The cable is just the data pipe.


48Gbps at this point in time is pretty much just marketing (even the Ruipro cable which I recommend). Unless you have source/sink HDMI chipsets that can utilize than bandwidth, and source material that requires it, it's meaningless. Your system is standardized around 18Gbps so a cable that has the potential of higher bandwidth will not give you any better performance.


What to do? I'd recommend installing a flexible conduit of adequate diameter that is capable of easily accommodating a couple of LV wires. Run solid core CAT-6/6a for future use, and install a pull string. If you are deadset on installing an 8k cable, then I'd wait till later on this summer when Ruipro releases their updated version of their 8k, hybrid fiber cable. It may work fine for a "future proofed" cable but there is no way to know for sure. In fact, no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work in all setups and with all devices. Whatever cable you decide to purchase, carefully lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it before installation to make sure it meets your needs. Do keep in mind that hybrid fiber cables are active, and there has been some issues with active cables and some projectors. Probably related to the current output at the sink end which is needed as a power source for the active cable. For that reason, Ruipro does, or at least they did with their first iteration of the 8k cable, include a voltage inserter in case it's needed.


----------



## lostinthesauce

Thanks for the feedback! I think I am just going to go with a 4k HDMI cable that will connect directly from the projector the the receiver. I was mostly concerned with the cost of upgrading that cable when the time comes, but that seems far enough down the road to not worry about now.


----------



## Otto Pylot

lostinthesauce said:


> Thanks for the feedback! I think I am just going to go with a 4k HDMI cable that will connect directly from the projector the the receiver. I was mostly concerned with the cost of upgrading that cable when the time comes, but that seems far enough down the road to not worry about now.



That's what I would suggest to get you going for now. Also, 4k HDR can be really finicky with its connection so the best connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Be mindful of bend radius as well because you don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends in your run.


----------



## john.odonnell01

So I am running my conduits for my low voltage connections to my home theater. Next will be actually pulling cables. 
Question 1:
1- Can I mix and match the HDMI cables, i.e. Ruipro copper HDMI 2.1 1meter to AVR from Xbox, 1 from DTV box, 1 from disc player and a 10 meter optic HDMI 2.1 from AVR to TV? Or do they have o be optic?


Question 2:
2- It looks like the Ruipro optic HDMI 2.1 cables support ARC and eARC, is that true?
https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynam...ds=ruipro+hdmi+2.1&qid=1593105019&sr=8-3&th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> So I am running my conduits for my low voltage connections to my home theater. Next will be actually pulling cables.
> Question 1:
> 1- Can I mix and match the HDMI cables, i.e. Ruipro copper HDMI 2.1 1meter to AVR from Xbox, 1 from DTV box, 1 from disc player and a 10 meter optic from AVR to TV? Or do they have o be optic?
> 
> 
> Question 2:
> 2- It looks like the Ruipro optic cables support ARC and eARC, is that true?
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynam...ds=ruipro+hdmi+2.1&qid=1593105019&sr=8-3&th=1



I've always felt it's best to use the same type of cabling throughout because of the inherent differences between copper only and hybrid fiber. eARC uses the unused "ethernet" wiring scheme so as long as all of your cables have "with ethernet", in theory ARC, and probably eARC will work. Do keep in mind that all of your HDMI chipsets need to be able to support eARC because eARC is a function of HDMI, not the cable. The cable is just the data pipe. eARC is also possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the mfr chooses to implement that HDMI 2.1 option.


I would cable your system first as a test to make sure it meets your expectations before you run the cables in the conduit.


----------



## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> I've always felt it's best to use the same type of cabling throughout because of the inherent differences between copper only and hybrid fiber. eARC uses the unused "ethernet" wiring scheme so as long as all of your cables have "with ethernet", in theory ARC, and probably eARC will work. Do keep in mind that all of your HDMI chipsets need to be able to support eARC because eARC is a function of HDMI, not the cable. The cable is just the data pipe. eARC is also possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the mfr chooses to implement that HDMI 2.1 option.
> 
> 
> I would cable your system first as a test to make sure it meets your expectations before you run the cables in the conduit.



Otto,


I hear you saying that since I probably need the optic hybrid for the AVR to TV run, I should make all the 3 foot cables component to component in the stand optic hybrid. 
NVIDIA, Xbox, DTV, 4k disc player to AVR should all be hybrid to AVR. And AVR to TV needs to be for the 10M run. 


Thanks John


----------



## TrendSetterX

john.odonnell01 said:


> Otto,
> 
> 
> I hear you saying that since I probably need the optic hybrid for the AVR to TV run, I should make all the 3 foot cables component to component in the stand optic hybrid.
> NVIDIA, Xbox, DTV, 4k disc player to AVR should all be hybrid to AVR. And AVR to TV needs to be for the 10M run.
> 
> 
> Thanks John


No, that’s is completely unnecessary. Just use 1m/3ft certified high speed hdmi cables for the shorter interconnects


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> No, that’s is completely unnecessary. Just use 1m/3ft certified high speed hdmi cables for the shorter interconnects



Correct. It's always best to use the shortest cable possible and at 3', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable will suffice for now. An active hybrid fiber cable at that length is an expensive overkill. I know I said it's always best to use the same cable type throughout but at short lengths you more than likely won't see any performance degradation as long as the cable has the ethernet channel, which it should. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## TrendSetterX

Otto Pylot said:


> Correct. It's always best to use the shortest cable possible and at 3', a Premium High Speed HDMI cable will suffice for now. An active hybrid fiber cable at that length is an expensive overkill. I know I said it's always best to use the same cable type throughout but at short lengths you more than likely won't see any performance degradation as long as the cable has the ethernet channel, which it should. Sorry for the confusion.


Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TrendSetterX said:


> Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.



That may be true but I've had certified connections (BJC Premium cables) at 3' lengths with no issues. It is a good idea if one needs a short connection to extend the length to at least 4' as long as the cable is not bent too drastically. I have been testing for Ruipro their first generation 4k cables for almost a year now at the 1m and 2m lengths and have had zero issues.


The nice thing about the hybrid fiber cables is that they are thin and very flexible. I have mine coiled behind my system so they are neat and out of the way. But again, it comes back to cost.


----------



## 5468467984

I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence. 

And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence.
> 
> And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?



You won't get any better performance out of a "48Gbps" cable than you will an 18Gbps cable but if you just have to have one now, Ruipro will be coming out with their next iteration of their 8k cable probably around August. Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to meet your needs and expectations because all setups (cable install, connected devices, HDMI chipsets, etc) are all different so what works well for one, may not work well (or reliably) for another. It's still trial and error especially if one is hell bent on getting a cable that is supposedly 48Gbps (which implies HDMI 2.1). Ruipro makes very good cables that are reliable and their customer support is excellent so that's why that is the cable we recommend for long runs with hybrid fiber. But, they had some issues with their first iteration of 8k cables and that's why they went back to the drawing board and designed the second iteration. The pandemic didn't help either with facilities shutting down for long periods of time so everything is behind schedule. If you have an adequate conduit installed with pull strings then swapping out your cabling shouldn't be too difficult when the time comes. 



Rule of thumb: the cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that determine what you can receive, or not receive.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Soul_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am so itchy to pull the trigger on a 48Gbps 50ft cable. Do we know when some good ones are arriving? The ones I saw on Amazon so far don't inspire much confidence.
> 
> And the monoprice one seems a bit overpriced to me. Is the monoprice cable that good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't get any better performance out of a "48Gbps" cable than you will an 18Gbps cable but if you just have to have one now, Ruipro will be coming out with their next iteration of their 8k cable probably around August. Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable is going to meet your needs and expectations because all setups (cable install, connected devices, HDMI chipsets, etc) are all different so what works well for one, may not work well (or reliably) for another. It's still trial and error especially if one is hell bent on getting a cable that is supposedly 48Gbps (which implies HDMI 2.1). Ruipro makes very good cables that are reliable and their customer support is excellent so that's why that is the cable we recommend for long runs with hybrid fiber. But, they had some issues with their first iteration of 8k cables and that's why they went back to the drawing board and designed the second iteration. The pandemic didn't help either with facilities shutting down for long periods of time so everything is behind schedule. If you have an adequate conduit installed with pull strings then swapping out your cabling shouldn't be too difficult when the time comes.
> 
> 
> 
> Rule of thumb: the cable is just the data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end that determine what you can receive, or not receive.
Click to expand...



Thanks for answering the speculation on ruipro dates. 
I feel like we spoke about why I am buying 48gbps cable now Otto. I am moving my tv another 10 feet so my current 25ft cable won’t cut it anymore. Since I am buying a new longer cable, I much rather buy 48gbps for HDMI 2.1 phy rather than change again in sept when new GPUs arrive. 


As for the guarantee part, I sure hope that they deliver what they promise. As per my posted question, it is hard to trust these random vendors. 

Is mono price 48gbps active cable a good buy at its current price?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Thanks for answering the speculation on ruipro dates.
> I feel like we spoke about why I am buying 48gbps cable now Otto. I am moving my tv another 10 feet so my current 25ft cable won’t cut it anymore. Since I am buying a new longer cable, I much rather buy 48gbps for HDMI 2.1 phy rather than change again in sept when new GPUs arrive.
> 
> 
> As for the guarantee part, I sure hope that they deliver what they promise. As per my posted question, it is hard to trust these random vendors.
> 
> Is mono price 48gbps active cable a good buy at its current price?



I can't answer the Monoprice question because I don't know where they get the cable from. Monoprice is not a cable mfr so they could get their cables from anywhere and put their name on it. Ruipro is a cable mfr with control over the development and mfr'ing of their cables. Testing is done by an outside testing facility that is approved by HDMI.org (an ATC).


We have discussed this before and all I can tell you is if you want a cable that claims 48Gbps you would probably be best to wait until the new iteration of the Ruipro 8k cable is ready. The last data sheet I saw from Ruipro indicated that their 8k cable tested at 50Gbps so I can only assume that the "new" cable shipping in a couple of months will test out at the same bandwidth. It's still meaningless until all of your HDMI connected devices have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, which will be standardized to 48Gbps to meet the HDMI.org ratified HDMI option sets for HDMI 2.1.



Even Ruipro can't give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will meet your expectations with your setup and cable distance. Nobody can. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so until everyone is on the same page, it's still going to be a bit of trial and error. Ruipro cables are, and will be, expensive but they are probably the best bet so far.


----------



## john.odonnell01

TrendSetterX said:


> Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.



Thanks Otto


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> Thanks Otto



You're welcome but I think you meant to thank TrendSetterX, at least I think so.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> I can't answer the Monoprice question because I don't know where they get the cable from. Monoprice is not a cable mfr so they could get their cables from anywhere and put their name on it. Ruipro is a cable mfr with control over the development and mfr'ing of their cables. Testing is done by an outside testing facility that is approved by HDMI.org (an ATC).
> 
> 
> We have discussed this before and all I can tell you is if you want a cable that claims 48Gbps you would probably be best to wait until the new iteration of the Ruipro 8k cable is ready. The last data sheet I saw from Ruipro indicated that their 8k cable tested at 50Gbps so I can only assume that the "new" cable shipping in a couple of months will test out at the same bandwidth.



Thanks. This all makes sense.




Otto Pylot said:


> It's still meaningless until all of your HDMI connected devices have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, which will be standardized to 48Gbps to meet the HDMI.org ratified HDMI option sets for HDMI 2.1.
> 
> Even Ruipro can't give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will meet your expectations with your setup and cable distance. Nobody can. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so until everyone is on the same page, it's still going to be a bit of trial and error. Ruipro cables are, and will be, expensive but they are probably the best bet so far.



I think this where I disagree with you a little. If they specify supported specifications and Bandwidth at certain length, it should not matter which end point device I use, as long as all devices meet the specs. And to what I understand, HDMI 2.0 it is a backward compatible specification subset included in HDMI 2.1. So, if they promise it is HDMI 2.1 and provide 48 or 50Gbps at 50ft, that should be a guarantee to support both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1. This should be defacto expectation. If not, it is false advertisement and could be something of an interest to FTC. Everything else IMHO is just an excuse.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> I think this where I disagree with you a little. If they specify supported specifications and Bandwidth at certain length, it should not matter which end point device I use, as long as all devices meet the specs. And to what I understand, HDMI 2.0 it is a backward compatible specification subset included in HDMI 2.1. So, if they promise it is HDMI 2.1 and provide 48 or 50Gbps at 50ft, that should be a guarantee to support both HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1. This should be defacto expectation. If not, it is false advertisement and could be something of an interest to FTC. Everything else IMHO is just an excuse.



All backwards compatibility means is that the HDMI chipsets will work to the point of the in-common option sets. In other words, an HDMI 2.1 device connected to an HDMI 2.0 device will work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but probably, and most likely, not for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. What you can do (transmit/receive) is almost entirely dependent on the HDMI chipsets, not the cable. The cable just pushes the data that it is sent and leaves decoding/encoding up to the HDMI chipsets. HDMI 2.1 is basically a list of options for the new format. All of the options available under HDMI 2.1 are not required for HDMI 2.1, so the device/chip mfr is free to implement whichever options they want to as long as they list which option sets are available. The cable has nothing to do with it other than it has been tested (in a laboratory environment with pattern generators and not on consumer devices) to meet CTS. How that translates to a real world setting (consumer's hands) has yet to be proven.


Cable marketing has been very misleading ever since the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0. Carefully worded marketing and product descriptions has just been short of outright false advertising in my opinion. Especially with the bulk of Chinese counterfeit cables and the fact that resellers like Amazon just don't have the resources to "fact check" if you will the claims from the cable mfrs that they resell for. Even reputable resellers like Monoprice have questionable cables that slip thru from time to time. Unless you know how the cable was tested the claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. 50Gbps at 50' could be a single cable from a specific lot tested in a straight line. If it passes, then the entire lot is validated for that distance. Or, do they take a representative sampling from a given lot, coil the cable to mimic bending, and then test. And if the cable is active, that brings in a whole other set of complications.


----------



## mhmercer

TrendSetterX said:


> Lengths under 3ft/1m should be avoided unless connecting a balun to prevent HDCP clock timing issues.


Agreed. Quoting HDFury from their Vertex2 Owner's Thread: "For copper cable, min 6ft / max12ft (a bit short or a bit longer can still work, but sticking to these min/max will ensure better reliability)
if you need longer length consider fiber or active."


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> All backwards compatibility means is that the HDMI chipsets will work to the point of the in-common option sets. In other words, an HDMI 2.1 device connected to an HDMI 2.0 device will work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but probably, and most likely, not for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. What you can do (transmit/receive) is almost entirely dependent on the HDMI chipsets, not the cable. The cable just pushes the data that it is sent and leaves decoding/encoding up to the HDMI chipsets. HDMI 2.1 is basically a list of options for the new format. All of the options available under HDMI 2.1 are not required for HDMI 2.1, so the device/chip mfr is free to implement whichever options they want to as long as they list which option sets are available. The cable has nothing to do with it other than it has been tested (in a laboratory environment with pattern generators and not on consumer devices) to meet CTS. How that translates to a real world setting (consumer's hands) has yet to be proven.


Agreed on this. This why I say that whatever they publish should be tested by them, and if it doesn't work as mentioned (on cable's specs) it is false advertisement. I am PEng. by education and trade, and believe me, I have seen my share of people who expect one device in chain to magically transform their system. I don't think that logical people would think that. The point being, specifications promised by the cable must be supported by the cable, and if end point devices support them they can use them.



Otto Pylot said:


> Cable marketing has been very misleading ever since the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0. Carefully worded marketing and product descriptions has just been short of outright false advertising in my opinion. Especially with the bulk of Chinese counterfeit cables and the fact that resellers like Amazon just don't have the resources to "fact check" if you will the claims from the cable mfrs that they resell for. Even reputable resellers like Monoprice have questionable cables that slip thru from time to time. Unless you know how the cable was tested the claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. 50Gbps at 50' could be a single cable from a specific lot tested in a straight line. If it passes, then the entire lot is validated for that distance. Or, do they take a representative sampling from a given lot, coil the cable to mimic bending, and then test. And if the cable is active, that brings in a whole other set of complications.


Exactly this point. This is why I am not buying the random Amazon cables. My trust in them is low for active cables, and the reason why I asked my original question.

Hopefully RuiPro can get their stuff in line for delivery soon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Hopefully RuiPro can get their stuff in line for delivery soon.



I've asked Ruipro for any updates on the 8k cable (as well as their two, new 4k cables) so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They are still trying to get back up to speed from being shutdown after CV-19.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> I've asked Ruipro for any updates on the 8k cable (as well as their two, new 4k cables) so I'm waiting to hear back from them. They are still trying to get back up to speed from being shutdown after CV-19.


Sounds good, and let us know how it goes.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Sounds good, and let us know how it goes.



I will. I did do some limited testing on a few of their first gen 8k cables and they seemed to work just fine at the short lengths that I tested, but there were a few issues that Ruipro wanted to address so that's why they went back to the drawing board and are coming out with the new iteration. However, there still won't be a way for a consumer to test the bandwidth until chipsets and source material that require it are available, and that's still a ways off.


----------



## HeisenbergABQ

Anyone here know if this cable really is the full 48Gbps?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VNFVFLP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A21TE5CLHZDYA7&psc=1

I saw some ultra slim Monoprice that were 48Gbps, but they were only 3'.


----------



## avernar

HeisenbergABQ said:


> Anyone here know if this cable really is the full 48Gbps?


I would not buy any cable marketed as "HDMI 2.1". Legit cable manufacturers are not allowed to use that to advertise their cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> I would not buy any cable marketed as "HDMI 2.1". Legit cable manufacturers are not allowed to use that to advertise their cables.



I agree. While the cable length is within the range for passive HDMI cables that meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets, that's about all it has going for it. The poster would be better off just getting a Premium High Speed HDMI cable and be done with it. Amazon will sell anything without checking specs or claims.


----------



## value

Surprised today watching 60fps Gemini Man and the atmos soundtrack was filled with static. Video looked great, no other sound issues on previous 4K discs except atmos tracks soundtracks I’m using latest blue jeans cables so what’s better to use?? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## _Vindicare_

value said:


> Surprised today watching 60fps Gemini Man and the atmos soundtrack was filled with static. Video looked great, no other sound issues on previous 4K discs except atmos tracks soundtracks I’m using latest blue jeans cables so what’s better to use??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm using the RUIPRO 8K cable 12meter lenght with no problems.

https://www.imundoaudio.com/categoria-producto/cables/ruipro/


----------



## value

_Vindicare_ said:


> I'm using the RUIPRO 8K cable 12meter lenght with no problems.
> 
> https://www.imundoaudio.com/categoria-producto/cables/ruipro/



Thank you will take a look! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

value said:


> Surprised today watching 60fps Gemini Man and the atmos soundtrack was filled with static. Video looked great, no other sound issues on previous 4K discs except atmos tracks soundtracks I’m using latest blue jeans cables so what’s better to use??
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Depending on your cable length, a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label is recommended. They are certified by HDMI.org to meet the HDMI 2.0 hardware option sets. Passive cables are certifiable for up to 25'. Be mindful of bend radius when installing.


For runs over 25', a hybrid fiber cable, like the Ruipro4k is recommended. They are active cables and as such can not be certified by HDMI.org. Ruipro will be coming out with a new version of their 4k and 8k cables soon. However, the 8k cable would be a bit of an overkill until there are consumer devices with certified HDMI 2.1 hardware and there is source material that will require the 48Gbps bandwidth. Otherwise, you're still stuck with 18Gbps max (HDMI 2.0).


----------



## MSloss

*Is Ruipro 8K in-wall rated?*

I am upgrading my 12-year old basement theater room for 4K. I have a 35ft HDMI cable through the wall and ceiling to the projector which I need to replace to support at least HDMI 2.0, and preferably 2.1 for the future. Fishing a new cable will be challenging, but I think doable. Components I have purchased:
Epson 5050UB
Sony UBP-X800M2
Yamaha TSR-7850

After reading most of this thread and looking at just about every fiber HDMI cable on Amazon, I am ready to order the Ruipro 8K 48Gb:

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B081SQXPWB

I would wait until their "new" 8K cable is released, but all the equipment I just bought will need to stay sitting in their boxes until then. I just don't have the patience. My only hesitation is I can't see anywhere that it is rated for in-wall installation. Does anyone have that information? The question was posed on Amazon, but has not been answered. Is it that big of a deal if it is not? Otherwise, I may have to go with the BIFALE, which is CL3 rated.

https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZKC5Q92

Thoughts?


----------



## MrBobb

If is rated, it will be clearly stamped.

These days of everything made in China though, I just keep my insurance up to date and and hope for the best.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MSloss said:


> I am upgrading my 12-year old basement theater room for 4K. I have a 35ft HDMI cable through the wall and ceiling to the projector which I need to replace to support at least HDMI 2.0, and preferably 2.1 for the future. Fishing a new cable will be challenging, but I think doable. Components I have purchased:
> Epson 5050UB
> Sony UBP-X800M2
> Yamaha TSR-7850
> 
> After reading most of this thread and looking at just about every fiber HDMI cable on Amazon, I am ready to order the Ruipro 8K 48Gb:
> 
> https://amazon.com/gp/product/B081SQXPWB
> 
> I would wait until their "new" 8K cable is released, but all the equipment I just bought will need to stay sitting in their boxes until then. I just don't have the patience. My only hesitation is I can't see anywhere that it is rated for in-wall installation. Does anyone have that information? The question was posed on Amazon, but has not been answered. Is it that big of a deal if it is not? Otherwise, I may have to go with the BIFALE, which is CL3 rated.
> 
> https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZKC5Q92
> 
> Thoughts?



One, for "future proofing" your in-wall cable installation should be installed in a conduit (1.5"-2.0"). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so the likelyhood of needing to replace your cabling down the road is very likely. Conduit makes that a lot safer and easier.


Two, hybrid fiber cables, at least well made ones like Ruipro have excellent bend radius but they are active cables so you don't want to be pulling them by the connector ends during fishing, hcnce the use of conduit.


Three, the only CL2 rated cable that Ruipro currently has will be the newly designed Ruipro4k cable. The downside is that CL-rated cables have a thicker jacket due to the ratings so there will be some loss in flexibility. Ruipro is also coming out with an updated 4k cable but it will not have a CL rating. Their 8k cables, the first iteration and the new one coming out soon does not have CL rating.


Four, BIFALE cables are questionable and appear to be a copy of a more reliable cable. They may or may not work reliably (longevity) so all you can do is try.


Five, once consumer devices are available with certified HDMI 2.1 hardware that support ALL of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, there's no guarantee that cables purchased today will work adequately. Probably, but no guarantee. Hence the use of conduit.


Six, the most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. You also may need to use a power inserter for your projector because some projectors appear to have current output variability which can cause issues with some active cables maintaining the current needed. This is especially true for long runs. It may not be an issue but something to file away just in case.


Seven, CONDUIT!


----------



## MSloss

Otto Pylot said:


> One, for "future proofing" your in-wall cable installation should be installed in a conduit (1.5"-2.0"). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so the likelyhood of needing to replace your cabling down the road is very likely. Conduit makes that a lot safer and easier.
> 
> 
> Two, hybrid fiber cables, at least well made ones like Ruipro have excellent bend radius but they are active cables so you don't want to be pulling them by the connector ends during fishing, hcnce the use of conduit.
> 
> 
> Three, the only CL2 rated cable that Ruipro currently has will be the newly designed Ruipro4k cable. The downside is that CL-rated cables have a thicker jacket due to the ratings so there will be some loss in flexibility. Ruipro is also coming out with an updated 4k cable but it will not have a CL rating. Their 8k cables, the first iteration and the new one coming out soon does not have CL rating.
> 
> 
> Four, BIFALE cables are questionable and appear to be a copy of a more reliable cable. They may or may not work reliably (longevity) so all you can do is try.
> 
> 
> Five, once consumer devices are available with certified HDMI 2.1 hardware that support ALL of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, there's no guarantee that cables purchased today will work adequately. Probably, but no guarantee. Hence the use of conduit.
> 
> 
> Six, the most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. You also may need to use a power inserter for your projector because some projectors appear to have current output variability which can cause issues with some active cables maintaining the current needed. This is especially true for long runs. It may not be an issue but something to file away just in case.
> 
> 
> Seven, CONDUIT!


Otto,

Thank you for the input! Unfortunately, the basement theater was finished 12 years ago without conduit. Too late for that now. 

That leaves me with going with either the better quality Ruipro w/o CL rating, or lesser quality BIFALE with the rating. I will probably go with the former and take my chances on the fire rating. 

My plan is to overlap and tape the fiber cable to the existing HDMI cable which is very thick, and using it to pull the fiber through the to the cabinet on the side wall. I don't think there is anything that should block it from coming through. Fingers crossed!

Mike


----------



## Otto Pylot

MSloss said:


> Otto,
> 
> Thank you for the input! Unfortunately, the basement theater was finished 12 years ago without conduit. Too late for that now.
> 
> That leaves me with going with either the better quality Ruipro w/o CL rating, or lesser quality BIFALE with the rating. I will probably go with the former and take my chances on the fire rating.
> 
> My plan is to overlap and tape the fiber cable to the existing HDMI cable which is very thick, and using it to pull the fiber through the to the cabinet on the side wall. I don't think there is anything that should block it from coming through. Fingers crossed!
> 
> Mike



Keep the connector end covers on during the installation, tape it good so that the cable doesn't bend backwards and get jammed somewhere, and be very mindful of bend radius. Hybrid fiber cables have great bend radius but you still don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends. I would lay the cable out first and thoroughly test it before you install. Otherwise if it doesn't work as expected, then you don't know if the cable is not playing nice or something happened during the installation.


Depending on the size of the opening you have for the cable, you might want to run a pull string along with it so if you ever need to pull/re-pull a cable, you have a nice pull string already in place.


----------



## MSloss

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep the connector end covers on during the installation, tape it good so that the cable doesn't bend backwards and get jammed somewhere, and be very mindful of bend radius. Hybrid fiber cables have great bend radius but you still don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends. I would lay the cable out first and thoroughly test it before you install. Otherwise if it doesn't work as expected, then you don't know if the cable is not playing nice or something happened during the installation.
> 
> 
> Depending on the size of the opening you have for the cable, you might want to run a pull string along with it so if you ever need to pull/re-pull a cable, you have a nice pull string already in place.


Great advice! Thanks


----------



## Tweakophyte

Hi-
... a bit of a cross-post... 

I wanted to get your thoughts on my eARC issue, specifically if upgrading to an 8K cable might help.

YI... I am having major eARC issue with a Ruipro 10M 4K cable. It has intermittent screeching (loud static sound), audio dropouts and timing issues where the voices are deep, lower pitched, and slow.

I have reset the devices several times and re-seated the cables. The firmware is up to date. The TV is a Sony x950g and the receiver is the new Denon x4700x.

The issue has been getting worse from when I first got the cable. I was very careful when I set things up. There are no major bends to the cable. All cables were very carefully run as it was a clean install of the new receiver.

I asked them if they've had eARC issues at 10M... any thoughts if it will happen again? Any thoughts on an alternate solution? Would an "8K cable" help?

Thanks,


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tweakophyte said:


> Hi-
> ... a bit of a cross-post...
> 
> I wanted to get your thoughts on my eARC issue, specifically if upgrading to an 8K cable might help.
> 
> YI... I am having major eARC issue with a Ruipro 10M 4K cable. It has intermittent screeching (loud static sound), audio dropouts and timing issues where the voices are deep, lower pitched, and slow.
> 
> I have reset the devices several times and re-seated the cables. The firmware is up to date. The TV is a Sony x950g and the receiver is the new Denon x4700x.
> 
> The issue has been getting worse from when I first got the cable. I was very careful when I set things up. There are no major bends to the cable. All cables were very carefully run as it was a clean install of the new receiver.
> 
> I asked them if they've had eARC issues at 10M... any thoughts if it will happen again? Any thoughts on an alternate solution? Would an "8K cable" help?
> 
> Thanks,



You only need to post your question once in the same forum.


eARC is still a problem for active cables. Although I highly recommend the Ruipro cables (as do a lot of other folks) they do have a newer version of their 4k cable coming out soon. Actually 2 cables. One is the same as the older one, only it has a CL2 rated jacket and the other one is the "second iteration" of the 4k cable, which should be released soon. The neweset iteration of the 8k cable may work but only because it is a newer cable. You are still stuck at the 18Gbps maximum bandwidth for HDMI 2.0.


----------



## Tweakophyte

Otto Pylot said:


> You only need to post your question once in the same forum.
> 
> 
> eARC is still a problem for active cables. Although I highly recommend the Ruipro cables (as do a lot of other folks) they do have a newer version of their 4k cable coming out soon. Actually 2 cables. One is the same as the older one, only it has a CL2 rated jacket and the other one is the "second iteration" of the 4k cable, which should be released soon. The neweset iteration of the 8k cable may work but only because it is a newer cable. You are still stuck at the 18Gbps maximum bandwidth for HDMI 2.0.


I am not following your last statement about 18gbs. The 8K cable is 48gbs, and should handle any future formats, correct?

I figured this thread had info on the 8K and the other had it on the 4K... my goal is to get eARC to work.

Thx,


----------



## JD12

Hi...
I'm new here and first time writing, but I've been following the discussion for sometime. I contacted Ruipro and asked for a distribution date for the new iteration of the 15m cable. I tried inserting the actual emails but to no avail. So I copied and pasted. I did remove some parts of the letterhead to reduce the size of the string. If you're interested please read the email string below... from the bottom up:

I ordered the new cable and I've received it. It's turquoise and looks to include a power adapter. There are no instructions. It appears the unit plugs into a USB port at either the monitor or AVR and the power is transmitted through a small wire to an HDMI adapter. The adapter receives the Ruipro cable and then plugs into an HDMI port. (I suppose this powers the chips in the cable.) 

I'm not convinced this is the NEW and improved cable. Could you please shed some light on my concern? Your opinion is appreciated. Did I receive an old model... or do I have a new model? Thank you. John

-------------------------------------------------
From: Suppot_Ruipro
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:53 PM

The 15m now in stock are the new version because the old version was sold out about 3 weeks ago.
Please be assured.
Thank you 


B/Regards 
Thomas
Sales Director
Skype: thomashdmi
T: +86-755-82591739
F: +86-755-86097391

IAVPRO/RUIPRO(International brand of SuniinTech)

Add: 3rd Floor, F Building, ZhiDa Industry Park
LongPing West Road,Longgang District 
518172 ShenZhen, GuangDong, China
-------------------------------------------------- 
From: John
Date: 2020-07-14 09:29

I checked the link you sent below and it’s showing a 15m cable. Is it the new cable or the original production? I noticed the Q and A’s for it were dated a month or so back… so I’m not sure. Could you please clarify?

John
----------------------------------------------------------- 
From: Suppot_Ruipro
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:48 AM

Thank you for your patience.
The 15m when it is available via Amazon will be the latest version.
You could have a check after 2 weeks, then it will be available via Amazon.
Thank you,


B/Regards 
Thomas
Sales Director
------------------------------------------------------ 
From: John
Date: 2020-07-08 07:44
To: Suppot_Ruipro

Thomas…
Thank you for the response. Any way I can be notified when the 8K 15m is ready for distribution? Will it be through Amazon? Do you happen to know the new part number so that I won’t be getting one of the first run cables?
-------------------------------------------------------


----------



## _Vindicare_

JD12 said:


> Hi...
> I'm new here and first time writing, but I've been following the discussion for sometime. I contacted Ruipro and asked for a distribution date for the new iteration of the 15m cable. I tried inserting the actual emails but to no avail. So I copied and pasted. I did remove some parts of the letterhead to reduce the size of the string. If you're interested please read the email string below... from the bottom up:
> 
> I ordered the new cable and I've received it. It's turquoise and looks to include a power adapter. There are no instructions. It appears the unit plugs into a USB port at either the monitor or AVR and the power is transmitted through a small wire to an HDMI adapter. The adapter receives the Ruipro cable and then plugs into an HDMI port. (I suppose this powers the chips in the cable.)
> 
> I'm not convinced this is the NEW and improved cable. Could you please shed some light on my concern? Your opinion is appreciated. Did I receive an old model... or do I have a new model? Thank you. John
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> From: Suppot_Ruipro
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:53 PM
> 
> The 15m now in stock are the new version because the old version was sold out about 3 weeks ago.
> Please be assured.
> Thank you
> 
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> Skype: thomashdmi
> T: +86-755-82591739
> F: +86-755-86097391
> 
> IAVPRO/RUIPRO(International brand of SuniinTech)
> 
> Add: 3rd Floor, F Building, ZhiDa Industry Park
> LongPing West Road,Longgang District
> 518172 ShenZhen, GuangDong, China
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: John
> Date: 2020-07-14 09:29
> 
> I checked the link you sent below and it’s showing a 15m cable. Is it the new cable or the original production? I noticed the Q and A’s for it were dated a month or so back… so I’m not sure. Could you please clarify?
> 
> John
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> From: Suppot_Ruipro
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:48 AM
> 
> Thank you for your patience.
> The 15m when it is available via Amazon will be the latest version.
> You could have a check after 2 weeks, then it will be available via Amazon.
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> ------------------------------------------------------
> From: John
> Date: 2020-07-08 07:44
> To: Suppot_Ruipro
> 
> Thomas…
> Thank you for the response. Any way I can be notified when the 8K 15m is ready for distribution? Will it be through Amazon? Do you happen to know the new part number so that I won’t be getting one of the first run cables?
> -------------------------------------------------------


Power adapter should only go on the SOURCE side, don't install on the display side!


----------



## MSloss

JD12 said:


> Hi...
> I'm new here and first time writing, but I've been following the discussion for sometime. I contacted Ruipro and asked for a distribution date for the new iteration of the 15m cable. I tried inserting the actual emails but to no avail. So I copied and pasted. I did remove some parts of the letterhead to reduce the size of the string. If you're interested please read the email string below... from the bottom up:
> 
> I ordered the new cable and I've received it. It's turquoise and looks to include a power adapter. There are no instructions. It appears the unit plugs into a USB port at either the monitor or AVR and the power is transmitted through a small wire to an HDMI adapter. The adapter receives the Ruipro cable and then plugs into an HDMI port. (I suppose this powers the chips in the cable.)
> 
> I'm not convinced this is the NEW and improved cable. Could you please shed some light on my concern? Your opinion is appreciated. Did I receive an old model... or do I have a new model? Thank you. John
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> From: Suppot_Ruipro
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:53 PM
> 
> The 15m now in stock are the new version because the old version was sold out about 3 weeks ago.
> Please be assured.
> Thank you
> 
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> Skype: thomashdmi
> T: +86-755-82591739
> F: +86-755-86097391
> 
> IAVPRO/RUIPRO(International brand of SuniinTech)
> 
> Add: 3rd Floor, F Building, ZhiDa Industry Park
> LongPing West Road,Longgang District
> 518172 ShenZhen, GuangDong, China
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: John
> Date: 2020-07-14 09:29
> 
> I checked the link you sent below and it’s showing a 15m cable. Is it the new cable or the original production? I noticed the Q and A’s for it were dated a month or so back… so I’m not sure. Could you please clarify?
> 
> John
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> From: Suppot_Ruipro
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:48 AM
> 
> Thank you for your patience.
> The 15m when it is available via Amazon will be the latest version.
> You could have a check after 2 weeks, then it will be available via Amazon.
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> ------------------------------------------------------
> From: John
> Date: 2020-07-08 07:44
> To: Suppot_Ruipro
> 
> Thomas…
> Thank you for the response. Any way I can be notified when the 8K 15m is ready for distribution? Will it be through Amazon? Do you happen to know the new part number so that I won’t be getting one of the first run cables?
> -------------------------------------------------------


I just received the 10m cable from Amazon. No idea if it is old version or new, but the model number on Amazon that I ordered was SNAOC21V101A_10. The label on the cable is different - SNAOC21V101A02_ARP.

There were no instructions in mine either about the power adapter that was included, but I saw it sold separately and it looks like it is only needed if the source fails to provide the 5V that is needed, which hopefully won't be the case with the Yamaha TSR-7850 it will be connected to.


----------



## JD12

_Vindicare_ said:


> Power adapter should only go on the SOURCE side, don't install on the display side!


Thank you Vindicare... I didn't know that. Much appreciated.


----------



## JD12

MSloss said:


> I just received the 10m cable from Amazon. No idea if it is old version or new, but the model number on Amazon that I ordered was SNAOC21V101A_10. The label on the cable is different - SNAOC21V101A02_ARP.
> 
> There were no instructions in mine either about the power adapter that was included, but I saw it sold separately and it looks like it is only needed if the source fails to provide the 5V that is needed, which hopefully won't be the case with the Yamaha TSR-7850 it will be connected to.


MSloss... After your post, I followed your lead and went to Amazon for the Model#. It's: SNAOC21V101A_15 which matched the data sheets posted at the start of Otto's string. The Model# on the cable I just received is: SNAOC21V101A02_ARP. On the bottom right hand side of the barcode, "on the box" it states "NEW"... for what it's worth. I got the impression that Otto might have an inside track on information from Ruipro so I was hoping for his thoughts.

Being optimistic... it looks like the difference in the Model#'s might very well mean we have a newer version. "A_10" vs. "A02_ARP". Perhaps the "02" means the second run? Wish I could say something positive and for sure...but sounds like we're in the same boat.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tweakophyte said:


> I am not following your last statement about 18gbs. The 8K cable is 48gbs, and should handle any future formats, correct?
> 
> I figured this thread had info on the 8K and the other had it on the 4K... my goal is to get eARC to work.
> 
> Thx,



8k cables are supposed to be 48Gbps but there is no way to verify that other take the mfrs' word that it will work as advertised when there are devices and source material that can take advantage of that bandwidth. Until then, you are stuck with HDMI 2.0 which is 18Gbps. Cables that can supposedly handle 48Gbps will not give you any better performance than a cable that can handle 18Gpbs because it's the HDMI chipsets that determine what you can send and receive from the source and sink, not the cable which is only the data pipe. If you are trying to "future proof" by purchasing an 8k cable now that's fine but there is no guarantee that it will work by then. eARC is possible now with Premium High Speed HDMI cables if your run is under about 20'. A 30' run should be ok with hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k or 8k) but there are no 100% guarantees so all you can do is try.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> 8k cables are supposed to be 48Gbps but there is *no way to verify* that other take the mfrs' word that it will work as advertised when there are devices and source material that can take advantage of that bandwidth.


Yes there is.  

Several people have bought these already: https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2496/displayport_1.4_to_hdmi_4k120hz_hdr_active_adapter_m-f/


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Yes there is.
> 
> Several people have bought these already: https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2496/displayport_1.4_to_hdmi_4k120hz_hdr_active_adapter_m-f/



Display port, maybe. But once you introduce a "break" in the HDMI chain, issues "may" happen. All one can do is try if they have a DP device.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Display port, maybe. But once you introduce a "break" in the HDMI chain, issues "may" happen. All one can do is try if they have a DP device.


Yes, there are some issues with this adapter such as the HDR flag not making it through sometimes after a SDR to HDR switch. But once you get it going it will output a 4K 120Hz RGB 12-bit HDMI signal to a C9 no problem. So it can be used to test cables.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Display port, maybe. But once you introduce a "break" in the HDMI chain, issues "may" happen. All one can do is try if they have a DP device.


Almost forgot. The new Denon's have a built in cable tester that will test them at 40Gbps.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Almost forgot. The new Denon's have a built in cable tester that will test them at 40Gbps.



We'll see. I'm still a bit doubtful about receiver's with "HDMI 2.1" but hopefully I'm wrong and just being overly cautious.


----------



## MSloss

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep the connector end covers on during the installation, tape it good so that the cable doesn't bend backwards and get jammed somewhere, and be very mindful of bend radius. Hybrid fiber cables have great bend radius but you still don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends. I would lay the cable out first and thoroughly test it before you install. Otherwise if it doesn't work as expected, then you don't know if the cable is not playing nice or something happened during the installation.
> 
> 
> Depending on the size of the opening you have for the cable, you might want to run a pull string along with it so if you ever need to pull/re-pull a cable, you have a nice pull string already in place.


Well, my cable pulling did not go well. I thought I had the new cable and a string securely taped to the old HDMI cable and pulled it through the wall and ceiling. It did bind and I had to yank it hard to pull it through. When it finally cleared, all I had was the string and old cable. The Ruipro cable broke loose from the connector somewhere in route. Now I am out another $160 to order another cable. At least the string is there to pull it back the reverse route to the projector, but I am afraid I may have to cut a hole in the ceiling drywall to be able to guide the cable over the wall to keep it from binding again. Then I will need to get an access panel to cover the opening. Nothing is ever easy!


----------



## Otto Pylot

MSloss said:


> Well, my cable pulling did not go well. I thought I had the new cable and a string securely taped to the old HDMI cable and pulled it through the wall and ceiling. It did bind and I had to yank it hard to pull it through. When it finally cleared, all I had was the string and old cable. The Ruipro cable broke loose from the connector somewhere in route. Now I am out another $160 to order another cable. At least the string is there to pull it back the reverse route to the projector, but I am afraid I may have to cut a hole in the ceiling drywall to be able to guide the cable over the wall to keep it from binding again. Then I will need to get an access panel to cover the opening. Nothing is ever easy!



I am really sorry to hear that . This is why conduit is so critical. But in your case, that wasn't possible. I really hope you can get this worked out. I do know that a qualified electrician can install conduit in walls as long as there is access to attic space. On 2-story homes that becomes more difficult depending on where you want the conduit. I've done that in a single story home and just had the cable run open to the attic space and conduit down the inside walls.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> We'll see. I'm still a bit doubtful about receiver's with "HDMI 2.1" but hopefully I'm wrong and just being overly cautious.


They're not advertising them as "HDMI 2.1" on the Denon website. Just 4K/120Hz and 8K/60Hz capable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> They're not advertising them as "HDMI 2.1" on the Denon website. Just 4K/120Hz and 8K/60Hz capable.



They can't. At least according to the HDMI.org marketing guidelines. However, advertising 8k/60Hz can lead the uninformed to assume HDMI 2.1. Devious marketing imo.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> They can't. At least according to the HDMI.org marketing guidelines. However, advertising 8k/60Hz can lead the uninformed to assume HDMI 2.1. Devious marketing imo.


They can, after they've gone through compliance testing. Once they do they can advertise HDMI 2.1 4K120A and 8K60A.

I don't understand why you think these 2020 AVRs are not HDMI 2.1 capable. They can handle a 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 FRL link, ALLM, VRR, QFT, QMS and eARC. That's pretty much the entire HDMI 2.1 feature set.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> They can, after they've gone through compliance testing. Once they do they can advertise HDMI 2.1 4K120A and 8K60A.
> 
> I don't understand why you think these 2020 AVRs are not HDMI 2.1 capable. They can handle a 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 FRL link, ALLM, VRR, QFT, QMS and eARC. That's pretty much the entire HDMI 2.1 feature set.



I didn't say they weren't HDMI 2.1 capable. From just the limited info you posted mentioned only a couple of HDMI 2.1 options sets, not the others than you just posted. All I'm saying is that device mfrs need to mention which HDMI 2.1 options sets are available to claim HDMI 2.1 capability. And, if those option sets have passed CTS then they can imply or state anything they want. Cable ratings, of which this conversation is really about is an entirely different matter and is fraught still with all kinds of misleading and overstated information.


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> They can, after they've gone through compliance testing. Once they do they can advertise HDMI 2.1 4K120A and 8K60A.
> 
> I don't understand why you think these 2020 AVRs are not HDMI 2.1 capable. They can handle a 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 FRL link, ALLM, VRR, QFT, QMS and eARC. That's pretty much the entire HDMI 2.1 feature set.


To what I understand 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 transceiver chip was selling for 5 bucks a pop. So, I would argue the other round, that if they are making these premium devices in 2020, and not including 2.1 chip, they are robbing people blind.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> To what I understand 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 transceiver chip was selling for 5 bucks a pop. So, I would argue the other round, that if they are making these premium devices in 2020, and not including 2.1 chip, they are robbing people blind.



Don't know where you got that information but if the HDMI chipsets have passed CTS for the HDMI option sets listed, then they are good to go as far as HDMI.org goes and it's up to the device mfrs as to which option sets they want to enable if they are using custom chipsets as well for their proprietary options. As long as the source and sink chipsets offer the same option sets, which have been certified, there should be no issues across platforms. HDMI 2.1 covers a wide set of options, which are options, not mandatory standards.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> I didn't say they weren't HDMI 2.1 capable. From just the limited info you posted mentioned only a couple of HDMI 2.1 options sets, not the others than you just posted. All I'm saying is that device mfrs need to mention which HDMI 2.1 options sets are available to claim HDMI 2.1 capability. And, if those option sets have passed CTS then they can imply or state anything they want. Cable ratings, of which this conversation is really about is an entirely different matter and is fraught still with all kinds of misleading and overstated information.



The second set of options are irrelevant to the bandwidth capabilities of a cable which is why I didn’t mention them in the first place. My point was that there the Club3D device can generate an HDMI 48Gbps FRL signal. So if you get visual artifacts on screen then that cable really can’t carry 48Gbps as claimed. 

Same with the 2020 Denons. You can use the 40Gbps cable test feature to weed out the bad cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> The second set of options are irrelevant to the bandwidth capabilities of a cable which is why I didn’t mention them in the first place. My point was that there the Club3D device can generate an HDMI 48Gbps FRL signal. So if you get visual artifacts on screen then that cable really can’t carry 48Gbps as claimed.
> 
> Same with the 2020 Denons. You can use the 40Gbps cable test feature to weed out the bad cables.


That’s fine if you need to bridge DP to HDMI with an active adapter for gamers or those who use a pc as their source. If the Denon as a source has an accurate “bandwidth” test and one has a compatible sink that would be useful for those individuals.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> That’s fine if you need to bridge DP to HDMI with an active adapter for gamers or those who use a pc as their source. If the Denon as a source has an accurate “bandwidth” test and one has a compatible sink that would be useful for those individuals.


Doesn't matter if it's a DP RX chip or a GPU feeding the HDMI 2.1 TX chip. It's still an HDMI 2.1 48Gbps FRL signal coming out of it no different that one from the upcoming Xbox Series X and PS5. While I wouldn't use this to say a cable is perfect it can show you which cables are inadequate.

The Denon does not need another sink. It is its own sink. You plug the cable into the Monitor 1 Out and HDMI 7 In. From what Denon has claimed in their videos, it is a proper HDMI 2.1 cable tester. It is limited to 40Gbps however.


----------



## gbynum

avernar said:


> Same with the 2020 Denons. You can use the 40Gbps cable test feature to weed out the bad cables.


AIUI, one of the TV manufacturers (LG or Samsung) has selected to use 40 vs 48 ... for whatever reason. There's a little discussion in the 2020 Denon thread here and on ASR.


----------



## avernar

gbynum said:


> AIUI, one of the TV manufacturers (LG or Samsung) has selected to use 40 vs 48 ... for whatever reason. There's a little discussion in the 2020 Denon thread here and on ASR.


Yes, LG has dropped down to 40Gbps this year. They integrated the HDMI 2.1 RX into the Alpha 9 Gen 3 and probably couldn't quite hit 48Gbps reliably so settled on 40Gbps.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Don't know where you got that information but if the HDMI chipsets have passed CTS for the HDMI option sets listed, then they are good to go as far as HDMI.org goes and it's up to the device mfrs as to which option sets they want to enable if they are using custom chipsets as well for their proprietary options. As long as the source and sink chipsets offer the same option sets, which have been certified, there should be no issues across platforms. HDMI 2.1 covers a wide set of options, which are options, not mandatory standards.


Sorry, I don't get your point. I think what you mentioned is pretty much the base understanding around certification of any product in any industry. This is not rocket science. What I am speaking about is cost to value ratio.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Sorry, I don't get your point. I think what you mentioned is pretty much the base understanding around certification of any product in any industry. This is not rocket science. What I am speaking about is cost to value ratio.



I get cost-to-value ratios but that means nothing for most consumers because one, they have no idea of what it costs to produce a product and two, if it meets their needs they will pay whatever.


----------



## MSloss

Otto Pylot said:


> _"Well, my cable pulling did not go well. I thought I had the new cable and a string securely taped to the old HDMI cable and pulled it through the wall and ceiling. It did bind and I had to yank it hard to pull it through. When it finally cleared, all I had was the string and old cable. The Ruipro cable broke loose from the connector somewhere in route. Now I am out another $160 to order another cable. At least the string is there to pull it back the reverse route to the projector, but I am afraid I may have to cut a hole in the ceiling drywall to be able to guide the cable over the wall to keep it from binding again. Then I will need to get an access panel to cover the opening. Nothing is ever easy!"_
> 
> I am really sorry to hear that . This is why conduit is so critical. But in your case, that wasn't possible. I really hope you can get this worked out. I do know that a qualified electrician can install conduit in walls as long as there is access to attic space. On 2-story homes that becomes more difficult depending on where you want the conduit. I've done that in a single story home and just had the cable run open to the attic space and conduit down the inside walls.


Better news to report - I cut an access hole in the ceiling to successfully guide the replacement cable through to the receiver. We now have 4K working! It just cost me another cable and an access panel to cover the hole. 

Mike


----------



## SigMachi

After reading all these posts my head was spinning. Bottom line, it seems there's not a great 8K ultra high speed cable yet for distances 10ft and longer. Seems like a lot of hit and miss. It's been strange to see people keep pumping Ruipro 8K cables when they clearly have some issues. 

I need about 10 ft of cable so I couldn't go with the 8 ft monoprice 8K. I also am installing behind a wall (about a 3-4 foot run). I don't have a conduit unfortunately, that would've been a great idea. So I search for a CL2 or CL3 8K cable in a 10ft length. I have always had good luck with monoprice, but theirs is not in wall rated. I looked at the Guipro but seems they are redoing the cable and it's also not in wall rated. So I settled on a Bifale 8K CL3 cable. The reviews were pretty good, but I have no idea if it will work. Hopefully given the short distance the quality is a little easier for them to insure. I'll try and report back once everything is up and running later this month or early next.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Current "8k" cables will not get you any better performance than certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables at present. For a 10' run, I'd just look for Premium High Speed HDMI cables, with the QR label and the CL rating if you feel you really need that. BIFALE cables sound good (they have good marketing/product descriptions ), but are pretty much a copy of a better made hybrid fiber cable. CL rated cables will add thickness to the cable jacket due to the CL rating requirements so you will lose cable flexibility somewhat, which reduces the bend radius, so you need to be very careful fishing the cable that you don't have any sharp bends or put undo strain on the HDMI ports.

Ruipro has three cables coming to market very soon. The original 4k cable which will have a CL2 rating (loss of some flexibility), and newly designed 4k cable (no CL rating), and a newly designed 8k cable (no CL rating). Being as your devices probably have HDMI 2.0 chipsets, you'll still be "stuck" at the 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0) standardization so a "48Gbps" cable won't give you better performance. If you're trying to "future proof" without a conduit then I would just install a Premium cable now, see how that process goes, and then wait until your devices can support some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets and then upgrade to a cable that has shown to work well with consumer devices and those options.

As long as you use a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between, and at 10', you shouldn't have any issues with any well made cable (Premium High Speed or Ruipro). As far as CL-rated cables, I don't use them.

Cl rated cables have a vertical flame test which means that they won't spread a flame any higher than 8'. For HV cables, CL2 is 150v and CL3 is 300v. They don't reduce smoke or gasses but do reduce the possibility of shock. LV wiring usually have CL/CM/CMG ratings and HV wiring has CL2/CL3 ratings.


----------



## JD12

Otto... How will we know whether or not we received a "new" version of the Ruipro cable when they're available? In an earlier post I mentioned I had information from Ruipro stating the new cable is available. Now I'm not so sure and I don't want to install the cable I received if I'm going to send it back. Any help and definitive comments would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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## Otto Pylot

The last time I checked with Ruipro, the product number was SNAOC21V101A_V1.2 for the new 8k cable. The original 4k cable will be labeled and sold as a CL2 rated cable. I don't have the Ruipro product number yet for the updated 4k cable yet.


----------



## _Vindicare_

I use what i guess is the "old" 8K 2.1 Ruipro cable, with 12m (39ft ?) lenght with no problems, 4K 60fps flawless.
I don't use eARC, i read somewhere it migth have some problems with that feature.


----------



## Jboy001

I tested two monoprice 30ft active fiber optic 8k cables and both had drop outs and eARC glitching, I then tested a BIFALE 25ft cable which was just as bad as the monoprice ones. I then found this thread and tried out the 33ft (10M) Ruipro SNAOC21V101A02_ARP cable. eARC works flawless, no more glitches or tv freaking out flipping back and forth between ARC and internal speaker. I can't test 4k 120fps obviously but the eARC sending True HD atmos back to the receiver work flawlessly and sending 4k VRR to the tv through the receiver worked as well. I am very happy so far and hope this cable works fully when PS5 and Xbox series X arrive.


----------



## SigMachi

Otto Pylot said:


> Current "8k" cables will not get you any better performance than certified Premium High Speed HDMI cables at present. For a 10' run, I'd just look for Premium High Speed HDMI cables, with the QR label and the CL rating if you feel you really need that. BIFALE cables sound good (they have good marketing/product descriptions ), but are pretty much a copy of a better made hybrid fiber cable. CL rated cables will add thickness to the cable jacket due to the CL rating requirements so you will lose cable flexibility somewhat, which reduces the bend radius, so you need to be very careful fishing the cable that you don't have any sharp bends or put undo strain on the HDMI ports.
> 
> Ruipro has three cables coming to market very soon. The original 4k cable which will have a CL2 rating (loss of some flexibility), and newly designed 4k cable (no CL rating), and a newly designed 8k cable (no CL rating). Being as your devices probably have HDMI 2.0 chipsets, you'll still be "stuck" at the 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0) standardization so a "48Gbps" cable won't give you better performance. If you're trying to "future proof" without a conduit then I would just install a Premium cable now, see how that process goes, and then wait until your devices can support some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets and then upgrade to a cable that has shown to work well with consumer devices and those options.
> 
> As long as you use a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between, and at 10', you shouldn't have any issues with any well made cable (Premium High Speed or Ruipro). As far as CL-rated cables, I don't use them.
> 
> Cl rated cables have a vertical flame test which means that they won't spread a flame any higher than 8'. For HV cables, CL2 is 150v and CL3 is 300v. They don't reduce smoke or gasses but do reduce the possibility of shock. LV wiring usually have CL/CM/CMG ratings and HV wiring has CL2/CL3 ratings.


My issue is that I need eARC, I'm just beyond that 8 foot mark, and its going in wall. I was going to go with a non CL rated cable and then I read some things that got me second guessing that so I wanted to just go the safe route. It was hard to find a CL rated, 10 ft, eARC cable. There's a lot of fringe brands and you'd probably say they were copies of a copy. So I went with the Bifale because I honestly couldn't find anything better. Like I said I would've gone with Monoprice but none of their cables are CL rated.


----------



## Otto Pylot

At under 10', you shouldn't have any issues with a Premium High Speed HDMI cable as long as it is one "with etherent". Fire rated in-wall cables, without the use of a conduit, is always a good idea but does nothing for the cable performance so you may have to make a choice. The active BIFALE cable should work but my guess is that the longevity (reliability) will be no where close to what the active Ruipro cable has, mostly due to the design, build, components used, and the proprietary chipsets that the Ruipro cables have.


----------



## JD12

Thank you Otto.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> I get cost-to-value ratios but that means nothing for most consumers because one, they have no idea of what it costs to produce a product and two, if it meets their needs they will pay whatever.


I think you are missing the point. What I am trying to say is, for the manufacturers the cost of going from HDMI 1.4 to HDMI 2.0 is not very different to going from HDMI 2.0 to HDMi 2.1. It is the same manufacturers, same certification organizations, same QA process changes, same chip vendors, it is nothing new for them. And if the chip if not adding a huge cost, why would we think that they would drag their heels, and why should we be doubtful in their ability to execute?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Part of the issue is that, at least for certification, costs have gone up, considerably for HDMI 2.1, mostly due to the strictness of CTS and the fact that there has been a need to re-design the chipsets, which has been a formidable task.


----------



## C19580

Has anyone heard any update about when the new RUIPRO 8K cables will be available?

what’s the expected improvement over the existing 8K cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

The new Ruipro8k cables should be available now. The product number is: SNAOC21V101A_v1.2. It is basically the same as the first iteration only they have made some improvements in performance. There are no 100% guarantees because performance is partially due to installation and connected devices. If your devices still have the certified HDMI 2.0 chipsets in them performance will be similar to the 4k cables. Remember, the cable is just the data pipe.


----------



## C19580

Thanks @Otto Pylot 

I’m trying to “future proof” as much as possible since I need to buy a 40 ft cable, which isn’t cheap, and would like to take advantage of the full capabilities of my Samsung Q90T and upcoming PS5.

not sure if I’ll end up getting full HDMI 2.1 but hopefully the best performance possible from 4K HDR10+ and lossless audio.

does that make sense or am I missing something (probably am)?


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> Thanks @Otto Pylot
> 
> I’m trying to “future proof” as much as possible since I need to buy a 40 ft cable, which isn’t cheap, and would like to take advantage of the full capabilities of my Samsung Q90T and upcoming PS5.
> 
> not sure if I’ll end up getting full HDMI 2.1 but hopefully the best performance possible from 4K HDR10+ and lossless audio.
> 
> does that make sense or am I missing something (probably am)?


At 40', the ONLY way you are going to be able to "future proof" is if you install your cabling in a conduit, with a pull string, if it's in-wall, unless you have easy access to the cable. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so the likelyhood of needing to replace the cabling you purchase today, sometime in the future is high. Besides, there's just no way to know for sure if the cable you buy today will work as expected once devices with the new HDMI 2.1 chipsets (what ever they are calling HDMI 2.1) will work. They should, but you never know with various mfrs coming out with their own version of HDMI 2.1 chips. Remember, HDMI 2.1 consists of options, not mandated standards. And, the cable itself can not improve video regardless of what the marketeers say. I get great 4k Dolby Vision/HDR10 and lossless audio with certified cables (HDMI 2.0). Even the Ruipro4k cables that I have been testing on my systems for almost a year now have the same performance as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables I was using previously.


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## C19580

Luckily, I do have a conduit from the media room to the equipment area, so it’s not that difficult to change out.

I found a 8K ruipro cable on amazon and the model number was very similar but not identical (SNAOC21V101A_12)

Is this one the latest model?

Ruipro 8K

RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 12m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box (40ft) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081SF1DKF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_QyojFbCFCMN10


----------



## _Vindicare_

C19580 said:


> Luckily, I do have a conduit from the media room to the equipment area, so it’s not that difficult to change out.
> 
> I found a 8K ruipro cable on amazon and the model number was very similar but not identical (SNAOC21V101A_12)
> 
> Is this one the latest model?
> 
> Ruipro 8K
> 
> RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 12m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D / Dolby Vision Slim Flexible for HDTV/Projector/Home Theatre/TV Box/Gaming Box (40ft) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081SF1DKF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_QyojFbCFCMN10


That seems to be the one i got the "old" version.


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## C19580

_Vindicare_ said:


> That seems to be the one i got the "old" version.


thanks. Any idea where I can get the new one?


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## Otto Pylot

You might want to contact Ruipro directly. Amazon is probably still selling whatever they have in stock before replenishing with the newest iteration.


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## JD12

C19580... I posted an email chain conversation I had with the "Sales Director" from Ruipro... named Thomas... he assured me any cable I ordered at that point in time would be the NEW cable... I received the new cable and in a conversation with MSloss decided it was actually the old cable. Then Otto stated a number which I looked for, but didn't find. I went to the Ruipro site and found a different model number, SKU: SNAOC201420_15 Category: V20B_01 which the link loops back to the original page... with no explanation (explicitly) stating it was the newest version. So I've collected 4 different model numbers of which one "might" be the new one! But with out a way to test them and without a knowledgeable person to say specifically what the new number is... I'm not sure how anyone will ever know if what they purchase is indeed the latest, greatest version of the cable. If anyone finds out the correct number for sure... please post it.


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## Otto Pylot

The product number I posted was from the Rupro8k spec sheet for the new cables. I'll check in with Thomas and see what's going on. Amazon does weird things with product numbers if you check the U.S site and then the European site. Ordering directly from Ruipro should be fine, that's why I suggested it. They may have changed the product number after I was sent the spec sheet (which was at least a month ago).


----------



## C19580

I contacted Ruipro and asked them about the latest and recently released 8K cable and they pointed me to the same green cable that’s been posted on Amazon for a while.

I asked for specifics and clarification but based on these responses, I doubt I’ll get a straight answer.

it’s frustrating that there’s so much confusion about their products.
2nd response from Ruipro
Sorry for the confusion.
Let me clarify, the old cables and the updated cables have same performance except that the old cable maybe can not work for some devices while the updated can work.
So we did not distinguish them.

First response:
Thank you for your interested in our cable.
The link is as below:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SF1DKF .
New version only upgraded its compatibility ability, and our cable has LIFE-TIME warranty.
So no need to worry its quality.
Thank you,


----------



## Otto Pylot

I've sent an email to Thomas so we'll see what he says. My feeling is that he is correct as I remember some discussions about this with him earlier in the year. I can't mention specifics but it appears that the "compatibility" issues were mitigated somewhat with the upgraded cable.


----------



## C19580

Thanks @Otto Pylot . Let us know what you learn.

just got this message from ruipro:


Sorry again for the confusion.
Both of them have same model#, and we release it on about June.
Please be assured that they have same performance if they can work well in your system.
And our cable has LIFE-TIME warranty.
Thank you,


----------



## Otto Pylot

That sounds like what I heard early last month from Ruipro. I've asked for a little more detailed info and if allowed, I will share it.


----------



## RichB

C19580 said:


> I contacted Ruipro and asked them about the latest and recently released 8K cable and they pointed me to the same green cable that’s been posted on Amazon for a while.
> 
> I asked for specifics and clarification but based on these responses, I doubt I’ll get a straight answer.
> 
> it’s frustrating that there’s so much confusion about their products.
> 2nd response from Ruipro
> Sorry for the confusion.
> Let me clarify, the old cables and the updated cables have same performance except that the old cable maybe can not work for some devices while the updated can work.
> So we did not distinguish them.
> 
> First response:
> Thank you for your interested in our cable.
> The link is as below:
> www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SF1DKF .
> New version only upgraded its compatibility ability, and our cable has LIFE-TIME warranty.
> So no need to worry its quality.
> Thank you,


That makes sense. I tried a 30' Ruipro 8K cable that worked fine with my LG C9 but did not work for the installation that was a Pioneer 600M. I bought the 8K to be future proof. I ended up with the 4K model that works flawlessly.

So I can confirm the old cable did have compatibility issues with older devices.

- Rich


----------



## Otto Pylot

RichB said:


> That makes sense. I tried a 30' Ruipro 8K cable that worked fine with my LG C9 but did not work for the installation that was a Pioneer 600M. I bought the 8K to be future proof. I ended up with the 4K model that works flawlessly.
> 
> So I can confirm the old cable did have compatibility issues with older devices.
> 
> - Rich


I might add that compatibility issues only occurred with certain devices. It was not universal. I have no issues with an LG C8, LG LD520, ATV4, ATV4k, 2 different Yamaha receivers, LG UBK90, and an Panasonic BDT210. The new 8k cables are basically the same as the first 8k cables with just a few minor tweaks for compatibility.

I will be testing the new 4k and 8k cables in the next couple of weeks on my systems but I don't expect any issues. Currently I am using the first iteration of the 4k cables on the C8 system. Performance is the same as BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables and I reported that last year when the cables were first released.

The Ruipro cables are probably some of the best made to date as far as hybrid fiber go, but the ONLY way to future proof is to use conduit for long runs if you don't have easy access to your cabling.


----------



## Tweakophyte

Otto Pylot said:


> The new Ruipro8k cables should be available now. The product number is: SNAOC21V101A_v1.2. It is basically the same as the first iteration only they have made some improvements in performance. There are no 100% guarantees because performance is partially due to installation and connected devices. If your devices still have the certified HDMI 2.0 chipsets in them performance will be similar to the 4k cables. Remember, the cable is just the data pipe.


What generation is SNAOC21V101A02_ARP?


----------



## Tweakophyte

How are peopole


Jboy001 said:


> I tested two monoprice 30ft active fiber optic 8k cables and both had drop outs and eARC glitching, I then tested a BIFALE 25ft cable which was just as bad as the monoprice ones. I then found this thread and tried out the 33ft (10M) Ruipro SNAOC21V101A02_ARP cable. eARC works flawless, no more glitches or tv freaking out flipping back and forth between ARC and internal speaker. I can't test 4k 120fps obviously but the eARC sending True HD atmos back to the receiver work flawlessly and sending 4k VRR to the tv through the receiver worked as well. I am very happy so far and hope this cable works fully when PS5 and Xbox series X arrive.


Are you using the power-inserter? If so, how are you powering it? I have a Denon X4700H connecting to a Sony X950G.

Thx,


----------



## Jboy001

Tweakophyte said:


> How are peopole
> 
> 
> Are you using the power-inserter? If so, how are you powering it? I have a Denon X4700H connecting to a Sony X950G.
> 
> Thx,


I have the power adapter on the source (receiver) end, i have an old wall plug usb phone charger powering it, 5V 1A I believe.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tweakophyte said:


> How are peopole
> 
> 
> Are you using the power-inserter? If so, how are you powering it? I have a Denon X4700H connecting to a Sony X950G.
> 
> Thx,


The power inserter, if needed can be connected to any USB port as long as it outputs 5v (standard) and preferably at least 500mA. The supplied power inserters with the 8k cables are 5v/500mA. The port can be on the receiver, USB wall outlet, etc. I've used the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables with the power inserters connected to the receiver and UHD player and didn't see any difference in performance, but then again I didn't have any issues. I will be getting the new versions of the 4k and 8k cables soon to test but I don't expect any issues. For the record, I have no need for ARC/eARC so I won't be testing for that. Just basic compatibility and performance.

The "new" 8k cables are basically the same as the first generation only Ruipro has made some tweaks to make them a bit more compatible with older devices. Older devices being ones that weren't made this year.


----------



## C19580

Just ordered the ruipro 8K cable from amazon. Hopefully it’s the new version, although there’s no way to tell.

will install this weekend and test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> Just ordered the ruipro 8K cable from amazon. Hopefully it’s the new version, although there’s no way to tell.
> 
> will install this weekend and test.


Looking forward to your results. I won't be getting my cables for probably another 2 weeks being as Ruipro still has to cut them.


----------



## C19580

Just received my ruipro 8K cable. Sharing pictures in case there’s anything that’ll give a clue as to whether this is the “new” version.

will install over the weekend.

other than just verifying that I can hear sound from the speakers and view video from my PS4 connected to the receiver, is there any other test one can do to verify that certain features are working like eARC (vs just ARC), etc?


----------



## Jboy001

C19580 said:


> Just received my ruipro 8K cable. Sharing pictures in case there’s anything that’ll give a clue as to whether this is the “new” version.
> 
> will install over the weekend.
> 
> other than just verifying that I can hear sound from the speakers and view video from my PS4 connected to the receiver, is there any other test one can do to verify that certain features are working like eARC (vs just ARC), etc?


I tested my eARC by plugging xbox directly into TV and setting it to output 7.1 uncompressed audio. The Ruipro running from the TV to the receiver I also used a 4k disc in the xbox and sent True HD atmos to the receiver. 
On previous other fiber cables I tested, they glitched out and failed at both these (7.1 lossless from a game took longer to break than the true hd atmos), Ruipro passed both.


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> Just received my ruipro 8K cable. Sharing pictures in case there’s anything that’ll give a clue as to whether this is the “new” version.
> 
> will install over the weekend.
> 
> other than just verifying that I can hear sound from the speakers and view video from my PS4 connected to the receiver, is there any other test one can do to verify that certain features are working like eARC (vs just ARC), etc?
> 
> View attachment 3026053
> View attachment 3026054


Those are the same cables that I tested (but was asked not to post my results on) about 4 or 5 months ago. I know that because there is a typo on the box where is says "unpressed" but should say "uncompressed". I pointed it out to Ruipro when we discussed it so hopefully they will change the packaging, unless they chose not to redo the labels. The labeling also indicates 50Gbps, whereas the newer 8k cables are listed at 48Gbps (with the new embedded optical engine at a 60Gbps maximum bandwidth). To be clear, the new optical engine rating is just the maximum possibility and has no bearing on real world applications. The cables I tested worked fine for the most part but I did have a couple of occasional handshaking issues with my AppleTV4k. To be honest, I had a couple of other issues with the ATV4k that a complete reset corrected so that may have been related to the ATV4k and not the Ruipro cables.

I'll be testing the new cables (4k/8k) for short runs because there has been some discussions on the reliability of active, short run cables. That's why I was asked to test the first iteration of the 4k cables, which I am still using without any issues at all.


----------



## Jboy001

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are the same cables that I tested (but was asked not to post my results on) about 4 or 5 months ago. I know that because there is a typo on the box where is says "unpressed" but should say "uncompressed". I pointed it out to Ruipro when we discussed it so hopefully they will change the packaging, unless they chose not to redo the labels. The labeling also indicates 50Gbps, whereas the newer 8k cables are listed at 48Gbps (with the new embedded optical engine at a 60Gbps maximum bandwidth). To be clear, the new optical engine rating is just the maximum possibility and has no bearing on real world applications. The cables I tested worked fine for the most part but I did have a couple of occasional handshaking issues with my AppleTV4k. To be honest, I had a couple of other issues with the ATV4k that a complete reset corrected so that may have been related to the ATV4k and not the Ruipro cables.
> 
> I'll be testing the new cables (4k/8k) for short runs because there has been some discussions on the reliability of active, short run cables. That's why I was asked to test the first iteration of the 4k cables, which I am still using without any issues at all.


I had a hiccup with my apple tv 4k last night, had to change inputs on the receiver and change back, weird


----------



## C19580

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are the same cables that I tested (but was asked not to post my results on) about 4 or 5 months ago. I know that because there is a typo on the box where is says "unpressed" but should say "uncompressed". I pointed it out to Ruipro when we discussed it so hopefully they will change the packaging, unless they chose not to redo the labels. The labeling also indicates 50Gbps, whereas the newer 8k cables are listed at 48Gbps (with the new embedded optical engine at a 60Gbps maximum bandwidth). To be clear, the new optical engine rating is just the maximum possibility and has no bearing on real world applications. The cables I tested worked fine for the most part but I did have a couple of occasional handshaking issues with my AppleTV4k. To be honest, I had a couple of other issues with the ATV4k that a complete reset corrected so that may have been related to the ATV4k and not the Ruipro cables.
> 
> I'll be testing the new cables (4k/8k) for short runs because there has been some discussions on the reliability of active, short run cables. That's why I was asked to test the first iteration of the 4k cables, which I am still using without any issues at all.


thanks for the input!

seems like it’s still the old version then and a learning that Amazon doesn’t have the new cables yet, or are not yet shipping them.

will see how they perform.

challenge is that I’m planning on buying a PS5 and receiver that supports HDMI2.1 on the future, so there’s always a risk that this cable won’t work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> thanks for the input!
> 
> seems like it’s still the old version then and a learning that Amazon doesn’t have the new cables yet, or are not yet shipping them.
> 
> will see how they perform.
> 
> challenge is that I’m planning on buying a PS5 and receiver that supports HDMI2.1 on the future, so there’s always a risk that this cable won’t work.


There's always a risk that any hybrid fiber cable won't work because of the HDMI 2.1 chipsets used (partial implementation, custom chipsets, etc). HDMI 2.1 is a recommendation for a set of options but it is not mandatory that all option sets have to be available or how they are to be implemented. Such is HDMI (which I personally don't like at all). Distance and installation will always play a key role in reliability of connection. That's why Ruipro is including a voltage inserter with their 8k cables in case your sink device has fluctuating current output and a more stable output will mitigate any issues. I found no difference in using the voltage inserter at the sink or source end when I tested the 8k cables months ago but distance is not an issue for me and I had no real problems beforehand other than handshaking which may have been nothing more than my ATV4k needing a complete factory reset. I haven't had any issues with the 4k cables at all.

As far as Amazon goes, I haven't checked with Ruipro on what has been sent where as far as resellers go. There's only so much information that I am privy to but it could be that Ruipro is wanting to use up the old labels first as a cost-savings (they are still recovering from the CV-19 shutdown in China) and you in fact have the "upgraded" version. I'll see if I can get any more definitive information on how the consumer can tell.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jboy001 said:


> I had a hiccup with my apple tv 4k last night, had to change inputs on the receiver and change back, weird


As I mentioned above, a complete factory reset of my ATV4k (the ATV4 was fine with the Ruipro cables) took care of any issues, perceived or real, so if you continue to have issues, that might be a consideration. It's a real pain to do the reset because there's settings etc that need to be put back in (as well as passwords) but the 'ol ATV4k is chugging along as if new now. I'm a bit ocd so I have all of my settings and what not in a Word doc so for me it was just a matter of taking the time to sit down and re-enter all of that without having to do that from memory.


----------



## Tweakophyte

C19580 said:


> Just received my ruipro 8K cable. Sharing pictures in case there’s anything that’ll give a clue as to whether this is the “new” version.
> 
> will install over the weekend.
> 
> other than just verifying that I can hear sound from the speakers and view video from my PS4 connected to the receiver, is there any other test one can do to verify that certain features are working like eARC (vs just ARC), etc?
> 
> View attachment 3026054





Otto Pylot said:


> Those are the same cables that I tested (but was asked not to post my results on) about 4 or 5 months ago. I know that because there is a typo on the box where is says "unpressed" but should say "uncompressed". I pointed it out to Ruipro when we discussed it so hopefully they will change the packaging, unless they chose not to redo the labels. The labeling also indicates 50Gbps, whereas the newer 8k cables are listed at 48Gbps (with the new embedded optical engine at a 60Gbps maximum bandwidth). To be clear, the new optical engine rating is just the maximum possibility and has no bearing on real world applications. The cables I tested worked fine for the most part but I did have a couple of occasional handshaking issues with my AppleTV4k. To be honest, I had a couple of other issues with the ATV4k that a complete reset corrected so that may have been related to the ATV4k and not the Ruipro cables.
> 
> I'll be testing the new cables (4k/8k) for short runs because there has been some discussions on the reliability of active, short run cables. That's why I was asked to test the first iteration of the 4k cables, which I am still using without any issues at all.


FWIW... tested the 10M version in my set-up. The HDMI tester on my Denon x4700h showed it as passing only 9Gbs at first, and then showed it at 40Gbs on the second test. I connected it to my TV without the power inserter and ran into eARC right away. Very frustrating. I then added the power inserter ((on the source/receiver side) and will let you know. 

I know I am going to get the "eARC is spotty" spiel... I wonder if this was a 30ft (vs 33ft) cable if that would help. Is there any length where eARC tends to become a lot more reliable? Is that 30'? 25'?

I am thinking about trying a BlueJeans active cable at 30ft. Any insight into that cable?

My TV (sending the sound) is a Sony 65X950G.

Thanks,


----------



## Otto Pylot

There are no guarantees, especially when it comes to eARC. It's still a bit of trial and error. Some folks have reported no issues with eARC at 50'. Some have reported issues at 25'. Distance and source/sink devices are major factors, not just the cable. I've used BJC Premium cables in the past and they work as expected but have not bothered with their active cables. This is why active cables, be they copper only or fiber/hybrid fiber are not certified by HDMI.org and another reason why I choose to not even bother with ARC/eARC.


----------



## C19580

I connected the ruipro 8K cable to my HT yesterday and spent a few hours playing call of duty and watched a movie.

the cable works and didn’t experience any glaring issues. I did notice that there was some lag and screen tearing while playing CoD but I can’t really determine that the cable had anything to do with that.

my setup is a Samsung Q90T connected to a denon x1600h. I have a PS4 pro and fire cube tv connected to the receiver. What are some tests that I can do to validate whether the cable and features are actually working? Is there a way to test transfer speed?

beyond simply saying “it works” because I can see an image and hear sound, i’d like to be able to verify some of the performance features.


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> beyond simply saying “it works” because I can see an image and hear sound, i’d like to be able to verify some of the performance features.


Without verified source material and/or sophisticated testing equipment, there really isn't a way for the consumer to verify the cable mfrs claims. Until devices with certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets are widely available, and there is source material that requires some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, it's not easily done. There may be new, top of the line receivers that display some technical signal data other than the usual but I'm not sure. 

Games are a whole different matter because they don't have to follow movie standards and can be designed just about anyway the developers want with regards to audio and video.


----------



## beckzito76

Hello good people!

I have the new JVC RS2000 projector and Denon Receiver 3700H already in transit and should arrive to my home in the next few days.
Now all this hdmi cable is driving me nuts and i need 50 feet 

Which is my best bet right now to get 8k and the maximum gbps transfer rate from the new Denon(via appletv 4k) and the JVC?

Many thanks.


----------



## _Vindicare_

beckzito76 said:


> Hello good people!
> 
> I have the new JVC RS2000 projector and Denon Receiver 3700H already in transit and should arrive to my home in the next few days.
> Now all this hdmi cable is driving me nuts and i need 50 feet
> 
> Which is my best bet right now to get 8k and the maximum gbps transfer rate from the new Denon(via appletv 4k) and the JVC?
> 
> Many thanks.


I'm using a RUIPRO with 12 meters, it does 4K60FPS HDR with no problems, it should go higher but i don't have any hdmi 2.1 ports.
Here in Portugal you can get them from Spain:








RUIPRO HDMI Fiber Cable


RuiPRO HDMI Cables híbridos fibra/cobre. iMundoAudio distribuidor autorizado RuiPRO




www.imundoaudio.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> Hello good people!
> 
> I have the new JVC RS2000 projector and Denon Receiver 3700H already in transit and should arrive to my home in the next few days.
> Now all this hdmi cable is driving me nuts and i need 50 feet
> 
> Which is my best bet right now to get 8k and the maximum gbps transfer rate from the new Denon(via appletv 4k) and the JVC?
> 
> Many thanks.


At 50', you'd probably be best off with the Ruipro4k or possibly the 8k cables. But keep in mind, as I mentioned above, there is no way to accurately and reliably verify which HDMI 2.1 option sets are going to work other than eARC and VRR (which is available on some HDMI 2.0 chipsets). And both of your devices need to have the same HDMI 2.1 option sets available for total compatibility. HDMI 2.1 is the new set of audio/video options but they are not mandated options so the device mfrs can choose which ones to implement and still use HDMI 2.1 in their marketing as long as they state which of those options sets are currently available or will be added later on with a firmware update. 

The ATV4k is limited to HDMI 2.0 data rates so that will be the best you can do. Whether the Denon can handle up to 40Gbps or not is irrelevant because the data stream from the ATV4k will be limited to, and standardized around HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps). HDMI is backwards compatible only to the in-common option sets.

At 50' you better be using a conduit if your run is in-wall unless you have easy access to your cabling. Be mindful of bend radius and do not use wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@C19580

I heard back from Ruipro and the cables on Amazon are the newest iteration. They kept the product numbers the same as they are just slightly modified (a slightly thicker jacket and better compatibility with some devices) but all other aspects are pretty much the same. They are using the same labeling on the boxes until they need to make new labels. I have pointed out the issues with the labeling to them and they will correct once they do the next production run of labels.


----------



## beckzito76

Great help, Thanks to both of you.
What do you think of this one ?






AKKKGOO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 15M Support [email protected]: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


Shop AKKKGOO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 15M Support [email protected] [email protected] 48Gbps Dynamic HDR4:4:4 3D eARC Dolby Vision HDCP2.2 Compatible with PC PS4 SetTop Box HDTV Projector. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.



www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> Great help, Thanks to both of you.
> What do you think of this one ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AKKKGOO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 15M Support [email protected]: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
> 
> 
> Shop AKKKGOO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 15M Support [email protected] [email protected] 48Gbps Dynamic HDR4:4:4 3D eARC Dolby Vision HDCP2.2 Compatible with PC PS4 SetTop Box HDTV Projector. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.co.uk


Given some of the wording in the product description:

_2. Please test the cable and check the display whether the cable will work or not before install or burried.
3. Due to the chip is inside the connector, please protect the connector, do not fall, do not impact the connector_

These are cables that are probably copies of better made hybrid fiber cables that use proprietary technology (chipsets) and not "off the shelf" components. No cable mfr can promise you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work in your setup and installation so all you can do is try. They may work initially but long term reliability may be an issue. That's why we recommend using conduit, with a pull string, for in-wall installations because you will be replacing the cables some day, hopefully longer than sooner. If your cables are easily accessible, replacing is not an issue. Do lay them out on the floor first and test thoroughly before installation.


----------



## C19580

Otto Pylot said:


> @C19580
> 
> I heard back from Ruipro and the cables on Amazon are the newest iteration. They kept the product numbers the same as they are just slightly modified (a slightly thicker jacket and better compatibility with some devices) but all other aspects are pretty much the same. They are using the same labeling on the boxes until they need to make new labels. I have pointed out the issues with the labeling to them and they will correct once they do the next production run of labels.


thanks @Otto Pylot! Really appreciate it.

the cable has continued to perform well, no obvious issues.
Although it may not be needed, the active usb connector is really short and my receiver only has a USB port on the front panel.

should I use this? If so, i guess I could just get a usb extension but what other places can I connect it to so that it’s not connected to the front of the receiver and a bit of an eyesore?


----------



## Otto Pylot

C19580 said:


> thanks @Otto Pylot! Really appreciate it.
> 
> the cable has continued to perform well, no obvious issues.
> Although it may not be needed, the active usb connector is really short and my receiver only has a USB port on the front panel.
> 
> should I use this? If so, i guess I could just get a usb extension but what other places can I connect it to so that it’s not connected to the front of the receiver and a bit of an eyesore?


On my receiver, the USB port is on the front as well, and the 17" USB cable was just not long enough to reach it, so I added a good quality 1' USB extension and ran that alongside the receiver. The power inserter connects just fine. I did the same thing with the UHD/BD player. However, I didn't really need the power inserter so I'm not using them. Both of my devices are behind glass doors so you can't really see them so aesthetics aren't an issue.


----------



## Rebound

beckzito76 said:


> Hello good people!
> 
> I have the new JVC RS2000 projector and Denon Receiver 3700H already in transit and should arrive to my home in the next few days.
> Now all this hdmi cable is driving me nuts and i need 50 feet
> 
> Which is my best bet right now to get 8k and the maximum gbps transfer rate from the new Denon(via appletv 4k) and the JVC?
> 
> Many thanks.


I think the better solution would be to attach the Denon Receiver close to your projector and then run speaker cable 50 feet from the Denon. Speaker cable is cheap! 
Fifty feet of 8K60 video is a huge challenge. You'll definitely need an active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable. I do not believe we will see reliable passive UHS cables which are 50 feet long. But such a cable will be expensive and I think long speaker cable is the less expensive approach.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rebound said:


> I think the better solution would be to attach the Denon Receiver close to your projector and then run speaker cable 50 feet from the Denon. Speaker cable is cheap!
> Fifty feet of 8K60 video is a huge challenge. You'll definitely need an active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable. I do not believe we will see reliable passive UHS cables which are 50 feet long. But such a cable will be expensive and I think long speaker cable is the less expensive approach.


The HDMI 2.1 specifications state that passive UHS HDMI cables will have a length of 1m-3m (3'-9') which is not going to work for a lot of folks. Active cables will be the answer but HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber. Voltage inserters may work for some if there are current issues at the HDMI port. But the voltage inserter needs to draw its power from a USB port so that it can output a consistent 5v/500mA current to the active HDMI cable. I don't understand the comment about using speaker wire.


----------



## beckzito76

He meant short hdmi cable from receiver to PJ(if they are nearby which i cannot) and then long spaker cable from receiver to speakers.


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> He meant short hdmi cable from receiver to PJ(if they are nearby which i cannot) and then long spaker cable from receiver to speakers.


Ok. Misread on my part or poorly worded on his part. If you definitley need to use a long HDMI cable (long being over 25') and can't shorten it, then an active cable will be your only option and that brings us back to the Ruipro4k or 8k. You may not have to use a voltage inserter but at least it's an included option with the 8k cables. If not, they are not that expensive to purchase separately. A passive cable with an active extender may also work but at 50', the cable will probably have a thicker wire gauge and if so, you will lose flexibility (bend radius) which could result in increased strain on the HDMI inputs which is a no bueno. If you do try the passive cable, make sure it has ethernet capability so ARC is an option if you need/want that. eARC is a whole 'nuther matter.

As far as the speaker wire goes, there is a nice little write up on speaker wire (Roger-Russel Wire Gauge) that clearly explains wire gauge to distance. I've used 2-wire insulated heater cord for speaker wiring in the past and that worked perfect, and at about $0.30 per foot, it was cheap and effective.


----------



## Rebound

Otto Pylot said:


> The HDMI 2.1 specifications state that passive UHS HDMI cables will have a length of 1m-3m (3'-9') which is not going to work for a lot of folks. Active cables will be the answer but HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber. Voltage inserters may work for some if there are current issues at the HDMI port. But the voltage inserter needs to draw its power from a USB port so that it can output a consistent 5v/500mA current to the active HDMI cable. I don't understand the comment about using speaker wire.


The Specification does not limit cable lengths but most experts seem to believe that a fully passive UHS HDMI cable would be very difficult to build at a length over three meters. This is where you’d need an active cable of some type. I didn’t read anywhere that such cables are prohibited; where did you read that?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rebound said:


> The Specification does not limit cable lengths but most experts seem to believe that a fully passive UHS HDMI cable would be very difficult to build at a length over three meters. This is where you’d need an active cable of some type. I didn’t read anywhere that such cables are prohibited; where did you read that?


The initial HDMI 2.1 specifications stated for passive cables that the length would be 1m-3m (3'-9'). Active cables are not prohibited by any means. Ruipro has a couple of very nice cables that meet the HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 specifications as tested in-house. But active cables, be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber are not yet certifiable by HDMI.org. Others may have their own "certification" protocols but they are not standardized like the Premium High Speed certification is so it's anybody's guess as to how well they will perform once HDMI 2.1 hardware is out in the wild. The hangup is the chipsets in the connector ends (some are "off the shelf" and some are proprietary) and the power draw, which is designed around 50mA but there are still some performance issues with that and the higher video standards.

I would love to see an active, Ultra High Speed HDMI cable certified by HDMI.org to meet all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets but that's just not possible at this point in time. Besides, certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work in all setups at all lengths. It just means that the cable has been tested by a standardized set of protocols and instrumentation approved by HDMI.org to meet the current HDMI option sets.


----------



## Arec

This is a great thread. I need 25 ft of HDMI to run from my new display to my AV closet. I’d like to future proof and run a 2.1 compatible cable. I have two lengths of conduit running from behind the display to the AV closet so pulling a cable isn’t an issue.

I’m having trouble finding any affordable options for 2.1 / 48Gbps in 25ft length that looks reputable. Can anyone steer me the right direction?


----------



## WarpedTrekker

How important is CL3 rating for in-wall? I'm just running the cable from the back of the TV, down an opening that has the wall outlet and other separate opening for the cable, and down just a few feet out of the wall into my receiver and devices.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Arec - the ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to run it in a conduit if it is an in-wall installation, or you don't have easy access to your cabling, and as you've mentioned, you have conduit so step one is done . For 4k HDR, the most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. At 25' you're at that magical cutoff point for passive vs active cables. Once there are cables certified for HDMI 2.1 options, they will be passive with a thicker wire gauge (loss of flexibility) and be limited to about 10'. Active cables are the answer, so far, but active cables of any kind can't be certified by HDMI.org so you're left up to the mfrs slick marketing and claims as to what will work at 25' and longer.

What most of us recommend are the Ruipro4k or 8k cables. They are active hybrid fiber cables and work very well for most people. I say most because no cable mfr can promise that their cables will work 100% of the time in all setups. Ruipro does have a very good reputation and their support is excellent as well.

Unless you have connected devices that have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in them, purchasing an "8k" cable now is an overkill because you're still limited to the standardized 18Gbps bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so that's why the use of a conduit is highly recommended (which you already have). Once you have sources that demand the higher bandwidth, and all of your connected devices have the same HDMI chipset version and OPTIONS, then you can swap out your cabling for one that is more suited to your needs. Just add a pull string to your conduit now for any future pulls.

@Myron_H - CL2/3 are fire ratings for HV cables (150v/300v respectively). A CL rated cable will usually have a thicker jacket to meet the requirements of CL2/3 so there will be a little loss of flexibility. As far as importance, it all depends on what your local building codes have to say about LV in-wall wiring and if you ever plan on telling them if you sell the house. As long as you're not running the cables next to any HV wiring (which you shouldn't be anyway) or around ducting that may get warm, you should be fine. The CL rating as no effect on performance.


----------



## Arec

@Otto Pylot Thanks much for the info about Ruipro. It looks like Amazon has a fiber HDMI Ruipro 25ft 2.0 18Gbps for $95. The 48Gbps 8K variant is about $170.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Arec said:


> @Otto Pylot Thanks much for the info about Ruipro. It looks like Amazon has a fiber HDMI Ruipro 25ft 2.0 18Gbps for $95. The 48Gbps 8K variant is about $170.


Just make sure you don't pull the cable thru by the connector ends because you can damage it, and be mindful of bend radius because you don't want any sharp, 90 degree bends even though the cable is very flexible. They are active cables so pay attention to which end goes where.


----------



## Arec

Thanks again. It won’t be too long and I’ll have all HDMI 2.1 gear ready for the new console releases, which is why I’m looking at the higher end cables now.

Do you think the active 8K cables will come down much in price in the near future or is this pretty much going to be the price for the foreseeable future?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Arec said:


> Thanks again. It won’t be too long and I’ll have all HDMI 2.1 gear ready for the new console releases, which is why I’m looking at the higher end cables now.
> 
> Do you think the active 8K cables will come down much in price in the near future or is this pretty much going to be the price for the foreseeable future?


Just make sure that your new "HDMI 2.1" devices are certified for the same options sets. HDMI 2.1 is a set of options, not mandatory standards. The device mfrs should list which option sets are available if they are to use HDMI 2.1 in their marketing.

8k cables, at least the ones made by reputable mfrs like Ruipro will not be coming down in price until maybe around November (Black Friday marketing crap). Even if they do, they'll still be pricey. 8k is a big buzz word now and will become even more so as the holidays approach. Folks will probably still be staying in and not going out much so the push for in-home entertainment is going to be big. If you feel you really 8k cables, then Ruipro is who I would suggest trying first. Just lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installing to make sure it is going to meet your needs. Even with a conduit, fishing cable can be a bit difficult unless you have a big conduit (2" for example) and not too many turns. This is where a pull string will come in real handy. You can use the existing cable to pull the new one thru but it's not as handy as a pull sting. With the pull string, you can safely tape the string to the cable, close to the connector end, and slowly pull it through without having to deal with two connectors ends (the existing cable and the new cable) competing for space in the conduit.


----------



## Arec

Otto Pylot said:


> Just make sure that your new "HDMI 2.1" devices are certified for the same options sets. HDMI 2.1 is a set of options, not mandatory standards. The device mfrs should list which option sets are available if they are to use HDMI 2.1 in their marketing.
> 
> 8k cables, at least the ones made by reputable mfrs like Ruipro will not be coming down in price until maybe around November (Black Friday marketing crap). Even if they do, they'll still be pricey. 8k is a big buzz word now and will become even more so as the holidays approach. Folks will probably still be staying in and not going out much so the push for in-home entertainment is going to be big. If you feel you really 8k cables, then Ruipro is who I would suggest trying first. Just lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installing to make sure it is going to meet your needs. Even with a conduit, fishing cable can be a bit difficult unless you have a big conduit (2" for example) and not too many turns. This is where a pull string will come in real handy. You can use the existing cable to pull the new one thru but it's not as handy as a pull sting. With the pull string, you can safely tape the string to the cable, close to the connector end, and slowly pull it through without having to deal with two connectors ends (the existing cable and the new cable) competing for space in the conduit.


Thanks again. I’m really less interested in 8K and more in having 4K/120 available for the consoles.

I’ve got a pull string already set (taped a bit of plastic bag to the end of some paracord, the sucked it through with a shop vac). I plan to tie another string to whatever cable I do pull through so that I can pull a new one whenever necessary.


----------



## Otto Pylot

The shop vac trick actually works quite well if you don't have too many bends in the run. Are you planning on using ARC/eARC as well?


----------



## Arec

Initially I won’t be using eARC but I would like the capability. As more 2.1 sources become available I may need to use the eARC back to the receiver.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Arec said:


> Initially I won’t be using eARC but I would like the capability. As more 2.1 sources become available I may need to use the eARC back to the receiver.


That's how eARC works (I'm sure you already knew that). Just keep in mind that there are still lots of issues for some with eARC and component compatibility (to have to use CEC or not for example).


----------



## beckzito76

hi

New 50 feet Ruipro 18GBPS is loosing connection from av receiver to JVC projector.
Even if i turn my cable box and apple tv to 1080 signal drops from time to time. Isnt this weird? What can i try?

Thanks guys!


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> hi
> 
> New 50 feet Ruipro 18GBPS is loosing connection from av receiver to JVC projector.
> Even if i turn my cable box and apple tv to 1080 signal drops from time to time. Isnt this weird? What can i try?
> 
> Thanks guys!


What do you mean losing connection? Sparkles, drop outs, total loss of picture? Did the cable ever work? Do you have another display device you can connect the cable to to rule out the JVC. Some projectors have issues with active cables and long runs.


----------



## beckzito76

3 seconds with blank screen... Yes.
Will try to connect to Tv, good idea.


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> 3 seconds with blank screen... Yes.
> Will try to connect to Tv, good idea.


Sounds like a handshake issue. Does the blank screen appear once you select the input and then go away after 3 seconds, and is fine for the remainder of the time you are using the pj? At 50', how is the cable installed?


----------



## beckzito76

It looses connection and picture goes away every 5 minutes or so.
Cable runs through the wall, like this:


----------



## _Vindicare_

beckzito76 said:


> hi
> 
> New 50 feet Ruipro 18GBPS is loosing connection from av receiver to JVC projector.
> Even if i turn my cable box and apple tv to 1080 signal drops from time to time. Isnt this weird? What can i try?
> 
> Thanks guys!


beck do you have the USB power inserter installed in the source side?

I could not use the ones that came with the cable because the power cord on the right of the conector hits the adjacent hdmi so i got one of theses and i'm using it right now.





LINDY HDMI Power Injector Inserter Cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo


Shop LINDY HDMI Power Injector Inserter Cable. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.



www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> It looses connection and picture goes away every 5 minutes or so.
> Cable runs through the wall, like this:
> 
> View attachment 3031667


It looks like the cable is on the outside of the wall, not "in-wall". You need to make sure that you don't have any sharp bends. Even tho the Ruipro cables have a very good bend radius, you want to stay away from sharp, 90 degree bends because that can cause issues. A voltage inserter, as mentioned above may help but usually the Ruipro4k cables don't need them. They are supplied with the Ruipro8k cables tho. Did you place the cable on the floor and test it before installation? That's the recommended procedure to make sure that the cable meets your needs and expectations. If it passes the "testing", and then fails after installation, it's more than likely the installation.

As a side note, are your using any wall plates, extenders, or adapters with your connection?


----------



## beckzito76

Thanks to both of you.
In the morning I made the cable turn less sharp and it worked around 5 hours flawlessly, lets hope its forever 

I have a cable box and Apple TV connected with short copper hdmi to a new denon receiver and then this ruipro to the projector on the oposite wall.No other devices in between.

Fingers crossed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> Thanks to both of you.
> In the morning I made the cable turn less sharp and it worked around 5 hours flawlessly, lets hope its forever
> 
> I have a cable box and Apple TV connected with short copper hdmi to a new denon receiver and then this ruipro to the projector on the oposite wall.No other devices in between.
> 
> Fingers crossed.


Hopefully you didn't damage the wiring. Hybrid fiber cables consist of glass fiber cores surrounded by copper wiring. Hence the name hybrid. The copper wiring is for the low bandwidth requirements of HDMI, such as HDCP, EDID, and ARC. Stressing those wires can cause the situation you described. Ruipro4k cables do have an excellent bend radius but when you bend them too sharply, and then keep that bend by tacking the cables in position, you'll damage them. I've been using a short version of the Ruipro4k cables for testing purposes for a long time now and they work just fine. I even have them in a loose loop behind my setup to keep them tidy and out of the way. I will be testing the 8k cables next month once Ruipro gets them to me.

You shouldn't need a voltage inserter with the 4k cables but do keep that in mind, especially when connecting to a pj.


----------



## beckzito76

Happened again 
Thing with that adapter is 50cm is too short from my rear hdmi input and my only front usb ...


----------



## Otto Pylot

beckzito76 said:


> Happened again
> Thing with that adapter is 50cm is too short from my rear hdmi input and my only front usb ...


What I did with the Ruipro voltage inserter, as a test, was to get a 1 foot USB extension cable. That was enough length, added to the 17" that the Ruipro inserter is, to give me an easy connection (my USB ports on the front of my devices). The Ruipro inserter is 5v/500mA. No issues but I didn't need the inserter to begin with.


----------



## provenflipper

Anyone using this cable?

Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable



Products no longer Available



I need about 25’ and looking to run a cable that will last for for the foreseeable future. I’ll be running a Sony X900H and Denon x3700H. Mostly movies and some TV, but maybe some PS5 from time to time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> Anyone using this cable?
> 
> Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable
> 
> 
> 
> Products no longer Available
> 
> 
> 
> I need about 25’ and looking to run a cable that will last for for the foreseeable future. I’ll be running a Sony X900H and Denon x3700H. Mostly movies and some TV, but maybe some PS5 from time to time.


If 25' is your maximum length, including a little play at the source and sink end, then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label for authenticity should work just fine for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. If you have easy access to your cabling, or if in-wall you've installed a conduit, then you might want to stay with the Premium passive cables until you move up to certified HDMI 2.1 devices. At that point in time you can easily upgrade your cabling. If not, then an active hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k and maybe even the 8k cable will be the way to go. However, they are expensive but made extremely well, with proprietary chipsets and excellent customer support.

There are no cables certified yet for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The official label for certified cables will be Ultra High Speed HDMI and will be for passive cables only because active cables, be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber are not certifiable by HDMI.org, yet. The UHS HDMI cable name is reserved for certified cables only, like Premium High Speed HDMI is now, so how Monprice can get away with their labeling is a bit of a mystery.


----------



## provenflipper

Otto Pylot said:


> If 25' is your maximum length, including a little play at the source and sink end, then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label for authenticity should work just fine for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. If you have easy access to your cabling, or if in-wall you've installed a conduit, then you might want to stay with the Premium passive cables until you move up to certified HDMI 2.1 devices. At that point in time you can easily upgrade your cabling. If not, then an active hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k and maybe even the 8k cable will be the way to go. However, they are expensive but made extremely well, with proprietary chipsets and excellent customer support.
> 
> There are no cables certified yet for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The official label for certified cables will be Ultra High Speed HDMI and will be for passive cables only because active cables, be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber are not certifiable by HDMI.org, yet. The UHS HDMI cable name is reserved for certified cables only, like Premium High Speed HDMI is now, so how Monprice can get away with their labeling is a bit of a mystery.


Thanks for the information. I’ll probably double, triple then quadruple check the measurements and then splurge on a 33’ Ruipro 8K cable. Seems like many people here are having great success with their cables. Being HDMI 2.1 devices are right around the corner, I’d rather run the proper cable now and not have to worry about it for years to come.


----------



## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> Thanks for the information. I’ll probably double, triple then quadruple check the measurements and then splurge on a 33’ Ruipro 8K cable. Seems like many people here are having great success with their cables. Being HDMI 2.1 devices are right around the corner, I’d rather run the proper cable now and not have to worry about it for years to come.


The Ruipro cable should work just fine. Just keep in mind that no cable mfr can guarantee that their cables will work 100% of the time for all setups. However, Rupro cables are very well made (I use them myself).


----------



## Jason Smith

Certified cables should start showing up soon...






Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable Certification Labels Available Now


HDMI.org is the licensing agent to administer licensing of HDMI Specification, promote HDMI technology and provide education on the benefits of HDMI interface.




hdmi.org


----------



## beckzito76

This may help someone:

The way i achieved to make the 50 feet ruipro 18GBPS work with no dropouts to my new JVC projector was with a combination of settings on the Denon av receiver:

-no dual output on hdmi signal, just one monitor at a time(either tv or projector stored in one of the hard buttons of the remote)
-no video processing, just put hdmi signal as bypass
-no 8k upscale and dont send hdmi as 8k, just enhanced mode(to get 10 bit at 4:2:0)

I am on my second day, 12 hours projector running time and had no issues so far.

Good luck everyone.


----------



## bryantc

JasonAVSF said:


> Certified cables should start showing up soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable Certification Labels Available Now
> 
> 
> HDMI.org is the licensing agent to administer licensing of HDMI Specification, promote HDMI technology and provide education on the benefits of HDMI interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hdmi.org


I certainly hope so. The first HDMI 2.1 device is only 15 days away.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JasonAVSF said:


> Certified cables should start showing up soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable Certification Labels Available Now
> 
> 
> HDMI.org is the licensing agent to administer licensing of HDMI Specification, promote HDMI technology and provide education on the benefits of HDMI interface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hdmi.org


No mention that the cables are passive only and that the initial cable length of 1m-3m (3'-9') has been successfully increased.


----------



## gbynum

Otto, "The specification permits wire, passive, active, and converter Category 3 cable assemblies." from Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable - HDMI

What's a converter Category 3 cable assembly?


----------



## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> Otto, "The specification permits wire, passive, active, and converter Category 3 cable assemblies." from Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable - HDMI
> 
> What's a converter Category 3 cable assembly?


A Category 3 HDMI cable is another name (to keep everybody confused) for an HDMI cable with ethernet that has passed CTS testing for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Active cables are permitted for HDMI 2.1 option sets, the problem is going to get them certified by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. There are connectors that have already passed CTS testing for HDMI 2.1 but it's the cable in-between that still needs some work, and 3m (9') still appears to be the maximum limit for passive UHS HDMI cables.


----------



## bryantc

So it doesn't look like we will get certified cables for at least a couple of months. I guess people like me will have to be the guinea pigs and try the existing cables.

Where is all the cable testing we were supposed to get in this thread?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> So it doesn't look like we will get certified cables for at least a couple of months. I guess people like me will have to be the guinea pigs and try the existing cables.
> 
> Where is all the cable testing we were supposed to get in this thread?


I will ask Ruipro about what happened to the ARROW-AV testing. I know one of the problems is that lack of source material to test the full HDMI 2.1 option sets is just not there so testing is dependent upon instrumentation alone, and there are various instruments that can do the same thing so standardization, at least as far as HDMI.org goes is still being worked out. There has been a delay from Ruipro in getting the new 4k and 8k cables sent to me for my limited testing so we'll just have to wait. If someone needs to install cabling now, and they are hell-bent on HDMI 2.1 options then I'd suggest the Ruipro8k cable with all of the usual caveats that go with it. If you want passive cables for HDMI 2.1 then 9' is probably going to be your max.


----------



## bryan holloway

Otto Pylot said:


> If 25' is your maximum length, including a little play at the source and sink end, then a Premium High Speed HDMI cable, with the QR label for authenticity should work just fine for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. If you have easy access to your cabling, or if in-wall you've installed a conduit, then you might want to stay with the Premium passive cables until you move up to certified HDMI 2.1 devices. At that point in time you can easily upgrade your cabling. If not, then an active hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k and maybe even the 8k cable will be the way to go. However, they are expensive but made extremely well, with proprietary chipsets and excellent customer support.
> 
> There are no cables certified yet for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The official label for certified cables will be Ultra High Speed HDMI and will be for passive cables only because active cables, be they copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber are not certifiable by HDMI.org, yet. The UHS HDMI cable name is reserved for certified cables only, like Premium High Speed HDMI is now, so how Monprice can get away with their labeling is a bit of a mystery.


I was also looking into buying this cable for a 100ft run.






Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com


SlimRun™ AV Dynamic HDR 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation in active optical cable systems. With support for resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps



www.monoprice.com





Id like to get the best future-proof cable that could possibly do 8k @120hz at this distance. I have a RX-A2080 receiver with HDMI 2.1 and will be buying a 2.1 capable TV soon (Probably OLED). I need at least a 100ft cable, and would like to keep everything in the AV closet and not where the TV is. Is there anyone testing cables at this length?

I also saw this one, but they just say 8k @60hz...



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VI3LIU4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3CMOOTCHB9X54&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryan holloway said:


> I was also looking into buying this cable for a 100ft run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> SlimRun™ AV Dynamic HDR 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation in active optical cable systems. With support for resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Id like to get the best future-proof cable that could possibly do 8k @120hz at this distance. I have a RX-A2080 receiver with HDMI 2.1 and will be buying a 2.1 capable TV soon (Probably OLED). I need at least a 100ft cable, and would like to keep everything in the AV closet and not where the TV is. Is there anyone testing cables at this length?
> 
> I also saw this one, but they just say 8k @60hz...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VI3LIU4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A3CMOOTCHB9X54&psc=1


I replied to your other post so I think I've covered your questions here. Future proofing for HDMI cables can ONLY be achieved by the use of a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cabling. Distance is also the achilles heel of HDMI and at 100', you're more than likely gonna have issues.


----------



## olivergiangvu

I have recently install a 20 meter hybrid fibber HDMI cable from UGREEN.









4K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable


UGREEN HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 4K 60Hz Support 2.0 Premium High-Speed 18Gbps 3D 4K HDR 4 4 4 Suitable for Apple TV, HDTV, Roku TV Box, Playstation 4 PS3, Xbox 360 One, Nintendo Switch




www.ugreen.com





I have read through their product detail seem very similar with the *RuiPro RuiPro8K *cable referenced in the begin of this thread.

Both have 4 fibber core then my Ugreen have only 7 copper compare to 8 of RuiPro.

Is that mean that theoretically that my cable is compliable with hdmi 2.1 - 48 gbps?

Currently i dont have any hdm 2.1 spurce to test but my plan is to have the next gen console and keep the same cable as it installed o9ver the ceiling of my apartment so it would be quite challenging to me to redo the wire job and i spent almost USD 150 for that cable so another investment for such a short period is kind of painful.


----------



## Otto Pylot

olivergiangvu said:


> I have recently install a 20 meter hybrid fibber HDMI cable from UGREEN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable
> 
> 
> UGREEN HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 4K 60Hz Support 2.0 Premium High-Speed 18Gbps 3D 4K HDR 4 4 4 Suitable for Apple TV, HDTV, Roku TV Box, Playstation 4 PS3, Xbox 360 One, Nintendo Switch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ugreen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have read through their product detail seem very similar with the *RuiPro RuiPro8K *cable referenced in the begin of this thread.
> 
> Both have 4 fibber core then my Ugreen have only 7 copper compare to 8 of RuiPro.
> 
> Is that mean that theoretically that my cable is compliable with hdmi 2.1 - 48 gbps?
> 
> Currently i dont have any hdm 2.1 spurce to test but my plan is to have the next gen console and keep the same cable as it installed o9ver the ceiling of my apartment so it would be quite challenging to me to redo the wire job and i spent almost USD 150 for that cable so another investment for such a short period is kind of painful.


The Ugreen cable is basically a copy of the Ruipro cable but it doesn't have the proprietary chipsets that Ruipro uses, the quality of build, nor is there anyway of knowing how they determine the cable's capabilities. In theory, it should work but you can not assume compatibility. Most all hybrid fiber cables are designed the same (fiber core surrounded by copper wiring) but the build quality, components used, degree of in-house testing, and support is what sets the Ruipro cable apart from the others. Installation is a key component in a successful cable connection. This is especially true for 4k HDR and the higher video standards which will eventually require the higher bandwidth requirements as well. If it were me, I'd use the Ruipro8k.

20m is about 60' so that is long for any cable by any mfr. Is your cable exposed or in-wall/ceiling?


----------



## bryantc

I just need a normal length (and affordable) 48Gbps cable. Should I get the Ruipro Copper? I keep reading about the 9ft limit but they only make 6ft and 10ft and I will probably need the latter.


----------



## Tirith2708

bryantc said:


> I just need a normal length (and affordable) 48Gbps cable. Should I get the Ruipro Copper? I keep reading about the 9ft limit but they only make 6ft and 10ft and I will probably need the latter.


I also need something 10feet or more. If you get it, please tell me how it works!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tirith2708 said:


> I also need something 10feet or more. If you get it, please tell me how it works!


Depending on how your cable run is situated, you could get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) up to 25' and know that the cable has been certified by HDMI.org to meet all of the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps). Then, once you have devices that have certified HDMI 2.1 options sets, you could upgrade your cable then. 

Purchasing an HDMI cable that has been tested for some, or all of the HDMI 2.1 options is really kind of meaningless at this point in time if you don't have source/sink chipsets that can pass some or all of the HDMI 2.1 options. If you're thinking about "future proofing", look at how your cable is installed first.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> I just need a normal length (and affordable) 48Gbps cable. Should I get the Ruipro Copper? I keep reading about the 9ft limit but they only make 6ft and 10ft and I will probably need the latter.


10' would be fine but as I just posted above, unless you have the source/sink HDMI chipsets that can pass some of the HDMI 2.1 options, then the cable is really sort of meaningless because you're still stuck at the 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 limitations. There are "cheaper" cables that claim 48Gbps but there's a reason why they are cheap 😉.


----------



## Tirith2708

Otto Pylot said:


> Depending on how your cable run is situated, you could get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (with the QR label) up to 25' and know that the cable has been certified by HDMI.org to meet all of the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps). Then, once you have devices that have certified HDMI 2.1 options sets, you could upgrade your cable then.
> 
> Purchasing an HDMI cable that has been tested for some, or all of the HDMI 2.1 options is really kind of meaningless at this point in time if you don't have source/sink chipsets that can pass some or all of the HDMI 2.1 options. If you're thinking about "future proofing", look at how your cable is installed first.


I do have premium 2.0 cable now, and i do have devices that can support 2.1. I just don't have cable, because there's no certified one.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tirith2708 said:


> I do have premium 2.0 cable now, and i do have devices that can support 2.1. I just don't have cable, because there's no certified one.


Which HDMI 2.1 option sets are "supported" on your devices, and do they support the same ones? Do you have any issues now with the Premium High Speed HDMI cables? By "premium 2.0 cables" I'm assuming you mean you have Premium High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label of authenticity. Premium High Speed HDMI cables imply 18Gbps and the HDMI 2.0 option sets. Ultra High Speed HDMI cables imply 48Gbps and HDMI 2.1.

If you are waiting for certified, passive Ultra High Speed HDMI cables, then you're going to have to wait because certification has hit a snag. How long is your cable run?


----------



## Tirith2708

I have LG C9 and Nvidia RTX 3080 arriving later this week. My TV->PC cable run is exactly 3m long but im afraid the 3m long one will not be enough if cable is too stiff.
No, i don't have any problems with my current cable and i don't see how it concerns what i asked about.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tirith2708 said:


> I have LG C9 and Nvidia RTX 3080 arriving later this week. My TV->PC cable run is exactly 3m long but im afraid the 3m long one will not be enough if cable is too stiff.
> No, i don't have any problems with my current cable and i don't see how it concerns what i asked about.


Ok. Passive, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables, when available, will probably have a thicker wire gauge to meet performance standards, so there will be a loss of bend radius which can translate to increased strain on the HDMI ports, which is not good over time. If you can install your cabling reducing the strain on the HDMI ports, you're fine.

Ruipro cables, which are active hybrid fiber cables and ones that I recommend, have the 8k cable available now. Whether they are in 3m lengths for consumer use or not I don't know. I tested the first iteration of the 8k cables earlier in the year at 2m lengths (which is what they sent me for short run testing) and they performed as well as their 4k cables for the HDMI 2.0 options sets. And those cables performed the same as the BJC Premium High Speed HDMI cables that I had been using on my system. If your C9 and RTX3080 offer HDMI 2.1, and they both offer the same HDMI 2.1 options sets, then the Ruipro cable should work fine. Keep in mind that if HDMI 2.1 is offered, the mfr has to indicate which options sets are currently available on their devices so checking for compatibility between devices is easy. HDMI 2.1 by itself does not necessarily mean the full complement of HDMI 2.1 option sets.

No mfr, even Ruipro, can offer the consumer a 100% guarantee that their cables will perform as expected in all systems and setups so there is still a bit of trial and error. If you have easy access to your cabling then that's not a problem swapping out a cable until you find one that is meeting your expectations for prefromance, reliability and longevity.


----------



## mhmercer

I have heard that all of one's cables must be HDMI 2.1 compliant in order to transmit a >18.0 gigabit/second signal. That does not make sense to me. In general, does an HDMI 2.1 capable source fall back to 2.0x bandwidth if it sees a bottleneck on one cable?


----------



## avernar

mhmercer said:


> I have heard that all of one's cables must be HDMI 2.1 compliant in order to transmit a >18.0 gigabit/second signal. That does not make sense to me. In general, does an HDMI 2.1 capable source fall back to 2.0x bandwidth if it sees a bottleneck on one cable?


No. All 18Gbps devices can keep using Premium High Speed cables. You only need an Ultra High Speed Cable for any link that's going to carry more than 18Gbps.


----------



## mhmercer

avernar said:


> No. All 18Gbps devices can keep using Premium High Speed cables. You only need an Ultra High Speed Cable for any link that's going to carry more than 18Gbps.


I did not make my question clear. What I meant was: if all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?


----------



## avernar

mhmercer said:


> I did not make my question clear. What I meant was: if all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?


There's no way for a device to quickly detect what cable you've used. So it will either work, glitch (sparkles, drop outs, etc) or not work at all.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mhmercer said:


> I did not make my question clear. What I meant was: if all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?


The cable is just a data pipe. It's the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink end that will determine what can be sent and successfully received. The HDMI chipsets will "fall back", for want of a better term, to the in-common option sets. If you send HDMI 2.1 data down a Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified for HDMI 2.0) you will still get signal but if the data sent requires bandwidth higher than 18Gbps you may have issues which can be remedied by adjusting what you send down the pipe.

HDMI 2.1 compliant can be hugely misleading unless the device mfr clearly specifies which of the HDMI 2.1 option sets are currently available, and both devices must be "compliant" for the same option sets. HDMI 2.1 is a set option sets. It is not a mandatory standard. IOW, all a device mfr has to do is list a single option that comes under the HDMI 2.1 options and they can claim HDMI 2.1, compliant or however they want to market it.


----------



## bryantc

mhmercer said:


> I did not make my question clear. What I meant was: if all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?


Maybe you don't understand your own question. If you are talking about a signal chain from device->AVR->display then yes every cable AND device in that chain needs to be HDMI 2.1.

If you are talking about multiple devices plugged into a HDMI 2.1 TV then they do not affect each other. The 2.1 devices will use 2.1 bandwidth and the 2.0 devices will use 2.0 bandwidth. Assuming you have the appropriate cables for each.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Maybe you don't understand your own question. If you are talking about a signal chain from device->AVR->display then yes every cable AND device in that chain needs to be HDMI 2.1.


Yeah, the poster needs to be a little more specific in his setup. That being said, cables that are certified for HDMI 2.0 will work with HDMI 2.1 hardware, you just won't be able to utilize some of the HDMI 2.1 options sets without issues. At 10' tho, he may not have as many issues as one would have with longer lengths. If he has devices and source material that uses some or all of the HDMI 2.1 options then try the Ruipro 8k if they offer one in his length because there is no such thing as an HDMI 2.1 cable or even certified Ultra High Speed Cables, yet. Just pay attention to the return policy of whichever cable he decides on and see what works.


----------



## mhmercer

Condescension is not a noble attribute. I asked a simple yes/no question: If all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?
Intuitively, and through experience, my answer is "no". But, there is the cable's hardware to be considered, and whether the cable is active or passive, wire, fiber, or hybrid. All in all, a non-trivial question.


----------



## avernar

mhmercer said:


> Condescension is not a noble attribute. I asked a simple yes/no question: If all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?
> Intuitively, and through experience, my answer is "no". But, there is the cable's hardware to be considered, and whether the cable is active or passive, wire, fiber, or hybrid. All in all, a non-trivial question.


No

There is no way for a source to know what type of cable is attached. So it doesn't matter if it's active, passive, copper, fiber, etc.


----------



## alebonau

hi all was there any tests ever done by the OP to determine which cables fully support hdmi 2.1 ie truly "ultra high speed" cables as per hdmi.org I see the spec of the cable does require mandatory certification. I am though yet to see a mandatory certified ultra high speed cable.... no idea if any even exist !  happy to be enlightened ...


----------



## mhmercer

avernar said:


> No
> 
> There is no way for a source to know what type of cable is attached. So it doesn't matter if it's active, passive, copper, fiber, etc.


Thank you.


----------



## bryantc

mhmercer said:


> Condescension is not a noble attribute. I asked a simple yes/no question: If all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?
> Intuitively, and through experience, my answer is "no". But, there is the cable's hardware to be considered, and whether the cable is active or passive, wire, fiber, or hybrid. All in all, a non-trivial question.


No one was condescending to you. You had 3 people answer your poorly worded question and ask for clarification. I still have little idea what you are trying to ask but it seems like you've found your answer (and if you are asking what I think you are asking you probably got the wrong answer). But GLHF.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> hi all was there any tests ever done by the OP to determine which cables fully support hdmi 2.1 ie truly "ultra high speed" cables as per hdmi.org I see the spec of the cable does require mandatory certification. I am though yet to see a mandatory certified ultra high speed cable.... no idea if any even exist !  happy to be enlightened ...


Not yet. There are no consumer-level testing that can be done to verify a cable mfrs claims unless one is willing to purchase testing equipment like an Agilent 86100C, Anritsu BERT Wave E415A, Quantumdata 980, etc. All the consumer can do at this point in time is either wait for ATC certified passive UHS HDMI cables to eventually hit the market or trust the individual mfr's product descriptions. ARROW-AV was involved at one time in performing independent testing of cables from various mfrs for HDMI 2.0, and did a very good job, but it appears that HDMI 2.1 has proven to be difficult.


----------



## bryantc

avernar said:


> No
> 
> There is no way for a source to know what type of cable is attached. So it doesn't matter if it's active, passive, copper, fiber, etc.


He asked if the source would "fall back" to HDMI 2.0 so isn't the answer Yes? Lets assume that the HDMI 2.0 cable is only capable of maximum 18Gbps. If you try to push a 48Gbps signal thru it then it will either negotiate whatever resolution it can get thru the cable or not work at all.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Not yet. There are no consumer-level testing that can be done to verify a cable mfrs claims unless one is willing to purchase testing equipment like an Agilent 86100C, Anritsu BERT Wave E415A, Quantumdata 980, etc. All the consumer can do at this point in time is either wait for ATC certified passive UHS HDMI cables to eventually hit the market or trust the individual mfr's product descriptions. ARROW-AV was involved at one time in performing independent testing of cables from various mfrs for HDMI 2.0, and did a very good job, but it appears that HDMI 2.1 has proven to be difficult.


thank you, indeed i remember Arrows work for 2.0, thanks for confirming we are still in the dark with 2.1 and testing. indeed we will have to look for either certified or take word of the manufactures in the mean time...


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> He asked if the source would "fall back" to HDMI 2.0 so isn't the answer Yes? Lets assume that the HDMI 2.0 cable is only capable of maximum 18Gbps. If you try to push a 48Gbps signal thru it then it will either negotiate whatever resolution it can get thru the cable or not work at all.


The data pipe (cable) will pass what it can based on the capabilities of the cable and the HDMI chipsets in the source/sink devices. If the cable can't handle the data throughput, sparkles, dropouts, etc will occur. The only way to get HDMI 2.1 chips to work with Premium High Speed HDMI cables is to change the source material (resolution, chroma, etc if possible), but then you lose the benefits of HDMI 2.1.


----------



## avernar

bryantc said:


> He asked if the source would "fall back" to HDMI 2.0 so isn't the answer Yes? Lets assume that the HDMI 2.0 cable is only capable of maximum 18Gbps. If you try to push a 48Gbps signal thru it then it will either negotiate whatever resolution it can get thru the cable or not work at all.


There is no evidence that HDMI 2.1 will try lower FRL rates if one fails. In fact there is evidence to the contrary. Denon's cable test feature requires that you connect both ends to the AVR for testing. This wouldn't be necessary if it could figure out the max cable speed by just talking to another device. In fact the separate cable test feature wouldn't be needed.

Secondly, all certified Ultra Speed cables will support 48Gbps. So why would the FRL negotiation need to worry about cables that can't?

Even if there is a fallback mechanism it would not drop to TMDS signalling (HDMI 2.0). FRL can most likely run at 24Gbps (4 lanes) over a Premium High Speed cable. If a really cheap cable had an inferior clock pair (4th lane) then it can still run FRL at 18Gbbps over 3 lanes.


----------



## bryantc

Ok yeah. From your explanation I think I finally understand what the question was in the first place.

Basically what will happen if you try to send a HDMI 2.1 signal down a cable that can't handle it. Answer: It either won't work or you'll see massive glitches.

Of course it's entirely possible that a well built cable could handle a higher bandwidth than it was originally certified for so the only way to know is to try.


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## Joe Fernand

_'I asked a simple yes/no question: If all devices and cables are compliant with HDMI 2.1, except for one HDMI 2.0x cable, will the sources' signals fall back to HDMI 2.0x?'_ - a couple or three things could happen depending on the combination of kit you happen to be using and the signal format you are trying to output from the Source. 

A. Everything works as required.
B. The Source device indicates there is an issue somewhere in the 'chain' and will refuse to output a higher bandwidth format.
C. You end up with a corrupted screen or no signal message on the screen.

Remember that Cables are not HDMI compliant.

Joe


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Of course it's entirely possible that a well built cable could handle a higher bandwidth than it was originally certified for so the only way to know is to try.


Some cable may be able to handle a slightly higher bandwidth but that really doesn't make a difference. The source and sink chipsets are standardized around either HDMI 2.0 or 2.1 so that's what they are expecting and if the cable can't successfully transmit the data being sent, problems will arise. The cable by itself can not alter the signal in any way so it can't "control" what the HDMI chipset is transmitting based on the source material. Changing the source material output, if possible, is the only way to transmit data from HDMI 2.1 successfully thru a cable that has been certified for HDMI 2.0. However, for the gamers, which are the ones who are most interested in HDMI 2.1 right now, and the ones that will benefit first from HDMI 2.1, that may not be possible and is probably not possible at all.

If the ultimate goal for purchasing a tv with HDMI 2.1 and a source device with HDMI 2.1 is to play games, then the only choice, as I said, is to wait for passive UHS HDMI cables (certified) to be released or go with hybrid fiber cables that are thoroughly tested in-house by the mfr. That being said, hybrid fiber cables are active and as such will probably never be certified by an ATC, or any active cable for that matter, due to the issues of power consumption and distance.

All one can do is try and hope for the best right now. Video technology will always outpace connection technology, and that's the problem.


----------



## bryantc

Otto Pylot said:


> Changing the source material output, if possible, is the only way to transmit data from HDMI 2.1 successfully thru a cable that has been certified for HDMI 2.0.


Is there a physical difference between 2.0 and 2.1 cables? Like pinout differences? If not its entirely possible you will have interchangeable cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Is there a physical difference between 2.0 and 2.1 cables? Like pinout differences? If not its entirely possible you will have interchangeable cables.


The pinout as far as I know is the same with the exception of the ethernet channel. Some cables are "with ethernet" and others don't advertise that so you need to check. "Premium High Speed HDMI with ethernet" is what one looks for if they're looking for a certified cable for HDMI 2.0. Ultra High Speed HMDI cables, when available, will have the enet channel because that's what is used for eARC, but the cable should still state "with ethernet". I haven't looked to see what the labeling requirements for HDMI 2.1 are with respect to ethernet so maybe not. Interchangeable cables will not happen. You will need to use a cable that has been tested, and hopefully certified for the HDMI option sets you want/need and use a single cable, source to sink.


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## bryantc

Otto Pylot said:


> Interchangeable cables will not happen. You will need to use a cable that has been tested, and hopefully certified for the HDMI option sets you want/need and use a single cable, source to sink.


I'm not understanding your argument at all. The cable doesn't know or care what "options" you are sending over it. Its just a bundle of wires. As long as it has all the pin connections it needs the only difference between cables is how much bandwidth it can handle. Which is why I say it is entirely possible that a well built cable can handle more bandwidth than it was originally advertised for.


----------



## mhmercer

bryantc said:


> He asked if the source would "fall back" to HDMI 2.0 so isn't the answer Yes? Lets assume that the HDMI 2.0 cable is only capable of maximum 18Gbps. If you try to push a 48Gbps signal thru it then it will either negotiate whatever resolution it can get thru the cable or not work at all.


The answer is "no", the source will not fall back to 2.0x for the other data streams.
The point of my original question was based upon some confusion about what would happen to source transmissions when some of the connections are 2.1 and some are not. Because we have very few 2.1 devices --I have only one--, and because 2.1 cables can be expensive, little has been tested by the buying public. Otto Pylot seems to have the inside track on this, so I asked the question. Perhaps I should have directed it to him alone.


----------



## bryantc

mhmercer said:


> The answer is "no", the source will not fall back to 2.0x for the other data streams.
> The point of my original question was based upon some confusion about what would happen to source transmissions when some of the connections are 2.1 and some are not. Because we have very few 2.1 devices --I have only one--, and because 2.1 cables can be expensive, little has been tested by the buying public. Otto Pylot seems to have the inside track on this, so I asked the question. Perhaps I should have directed it to him alone.


"Other data streams"? "Some connections"?

Nothing that you say makes any sense. An HDMI cable connects one single device to another single device. There is only one "data stream" being sent over it.

All of you seem to be way over complicating this. Either a cable works or it doesn't. HDMI has not physically changed since it was introduced in 2003. It has always been the same 19 pins. (Except the 2 pins for ethernet/eARC were unused in the early days so you have to lookout for cables with the "ethernet" designation). The only difference between cables is how much bandwidth they can handle. This is guaranteed by the certification. A non-certified cable might very well handle the bandwidth it claims its just that there is no guarantee.

Here is a direct quote from wiki:

"The "version" of a connection depends on the versions of the HDMI ports on the source and sink devices, not on the HDMI cable. The different categories of HDMI cable only affect the bandwidth (maximum resolution / refresh rate) of the connection. Other features such as audio, 3D, chroma subsampling, or variable refresh rate depend only on the versions of the ports, and are not affected by what type of HDMI cable is used. The only exception to this is Ethernet-over-HDMI, which requires an "HDMI with Ethernet" cable. "


----------



## avernar

bryantc said:


> Is there a physical difference between 2.0 and 2.1 cables? Like pinout differences? If not its entirely possible you will have interchangeable cables.


The pinouts are the same. The only difference is what pins 10 and 12 are used for. For TMDS (HDMI 2.0) they're the TMDS Clock. For FRL (HDMI 2.1) they're Lane 3 (fourth lane).

The wire gauge, shielding and twist rate are all probably different between the cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> I'm not understanding your argument at all. The cable doesn't know or care what "options" you are sending over it. Its just a bundle of wires. As long as it has all the pin connections it needs the only difference between cables is how much bandwidth it can handle. Which is why I say it is entirely possible that a well built cable can handle more bandwidth than it was originally advertised for.


Define well built. A passive cable with a thick wire gauge can probably indeed handle a higher bandwidth at a shorter length (with a loss of bend radius). But how high? 20Mbps, 25Mbps, 40Mbps? Premium High Speed cables, in theory, are the best built cables because they have been certified for the 18Gbps bandwidth of HDMI 2.0, but I would agree that they can probably handle a bit higher bandwidth. Certification is not a guarantee but only a guide to the consumer that the cable has been tested and certified by a standardized set of protocols to meet those requirements, and any cable mfr can submit their cables for certification.

The first iteration of the active Ruipro8k cables tested out at 50Gbps, but Ruipro only advertised the 48Gbps "limit" for HDMI 2.1. Does that extra 2Gbps make a difference, no. Because timing, error correction, etc etc etc are set around the 48Gbps and lower bandwidth so that's what they keyed on for reliability in their cables. My guess is that a Premium High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet (let's not forget that) will probably work well at 10' and less for some of the HDMI 2.1 options. Which ones is anybody's guess.

The argument is really kind of silly at this point in time. Nobody really knows. Until certified HDMI 2.1 devices are commonly available (and they are almost here), with source material that requires some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, we won't really know what cables will work at what lengths until they get in the consumer's hands and homes. 

Recommendation? Either get a Premium High Speed HDMI cable or an active fiber cable and see what works best in your setup and cable distance. Keep the run to a single cable with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised.


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## bryantc

Yeah I wouldn't expect full bandwidth out of an old cable but it can probably do something in between. I have dozens of Monoprice certified cables and I will certainly be trying them with my new video card to see what they can handle.


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## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Yeah I wouldn't expect full bandwidth out of an old cable but it can probably do something in between. I have dozens of Monoprice certified cables and I will certainly be trying them with my new video card to see what they can handle.


I'd be curious as to how that works out so post back. Hopefully you'll raise your hands to the sky and say Hallelujah!


----------



## G-Rex

Wireworld has released the Stellar hdmi 2.1 hybrid/optical long length cable. Hardware parts (laser and chips/driver) sourced from the US and Germany. I believe the cable is hdmi.org certified. Prices don’t seem too bad considering. 






Widescreen Review Webzine | News | Wireworld Introduces Stellar 8K Optical HDMI 2.1 Cables







widescreenreview.com


----------



## alebonau

G-Rex said:


> Wireworld has released the Stellar hdmi 2.1 hybrid/optical long length cable. Hardware parts (laser and chips/driver) sourced from the US and Germany. I believe the cable is hdmi.org certified. Prices don’t seem too bad considering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widescreen Review Webzine | News | Wireworld Introduces Stellar 8K Optical HDMI 2.1 Cables
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> widescreenreview.com


wow great news if have and Especially if has the ultrahighspeed mandatory certification hdmi org demands

it is expensive but good to see long lengths there ... gives hope


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## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> ... some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets ...


Otto, I've gone back to the beginning of this thread hoping to find a list of, or link to, "some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets". Arrow-AV hinted at a listing of longer compliant cables, but seems to have dropped out of this thread. I kinda expected a Google Sheets or Excel spreadsheet with sets indicated ... maybe it is that there are none yet which explains that part. But what, exactly (or approximately<g>) are these option sets?


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## Tirith2708

alebonau said:


> wow great news if have and Especially if has the ultrahighspeed mandatory certification hdmi org demands
> 
> it is expensive but good to see long lengths there ... gives hope


You consider $450 for 5m not too bad? I would hesitate if it was $45


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## alebonau

Tirith2708 said:


> You consider $450 for 5m not too bad? I would hesitate if it was $45


perrhaps worth checking my post  

at what point does my post saying "it is expensive" be taken as "$450 for 5m not too bad?" suspect that is thoughts of yours or long stretch of the bow  

my thoughts are its good it comes in longer lengths... but its expensive... hope that is clear enough so not mis interpreted


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## Tirith2708

alebonau said:


> perrhaps worth checking my post
> 
> at what point does my post saying "it is expensive" be taken as "$450 for 5m not too bad?" suspect that is thoughts of yours or long stretch of the bow
> 
> my thoughts are its good it comes in longer lengths... but its expensive... hope that is clear enough so not mis interpreted


Sorry, wrong poster. This was directed at G-Rex and his "Prices don’t seem too bad considering. "


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## G-Rex

Tirith2708 said:


> Sorry, wrong poster. This was directed at G-Rex and his "Prices don’t seem too bad considering. "


Compared to prior WireWorld hdmi cables, such as the Platinum Starlight or Silver Starlight (I own the latter) the Stellar price is not too bad as it is substantially less than its predecessors and is hdmi 2.1 48 gbps at very long lengths. So the price not being too bad is relatively speaking... The fact that it’s designed in the US, with US and German hardware spec’d parts and medical grade optics means it will not be a cheap cable. Reliability should be excellent, (hdmi.org certified) so I find the price not bad, all things considered for a high end cable. This cable is clearly not for everybody, as there are cheaper options out there.


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## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> Otto, I've gone back to the beginning of this thread hoping to find a list of, or link to, "some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets". Arrow-AV hinted at a listing of longer compliant cables, but seems to have dropped out of this thread. I kinda expected a Google Sheets or Excel spreadsheet with sets indicated ... maybe it is that there are none yet which explains that part. But what, exactly (or approximately<g>) are these option sets?


This is from my notes, which is basically from HDMI.org site.

*Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (registered trademark).
*Auto Low Latency Mode (ALLM) to automatically set the ideal latency setting.
*Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC):
Support DTS Master, DTS:X, Dolby True HD, Dolby Atmos and more.
eARC is not defined as to be backwards compatible with ARC.
Compatibility for both is up to the individual device mfrs. Maximum bandwidth
requirement for audio is 37Gbps.
*Quick Frame Transport (QFT) for lower latency smoother no-lag gaming.
*Quick Media Switching (QMS) for movies and videos.
*Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) for gaming.
*Supports VESA DSC (Display Screen Compression) 1.2a link compression.
*Supports the latest color spaces including BT.2020 at 10, 12, and 16 bits.
*FRL (Fixed Rate Link) Signaling Technology:
Required for higher uncompressed resolutions and ultra high speed bandwidths up to 48Gbps.
Will replace TMDS (but is backwards compatible with TMDS devices).
Will probably require new hardware.
*Supports Dynamic HDR.

As long as the cable/device mfr lists which of the above options are available then they can market HDMI 2.1, even if it is only one option. The options sets are just that, options. They are not mandatory standards. Most device mfrs will eventually offer the full option set but you need to read carefully which ones they offer. Cable mfrs seem to be trying to test for the full complement but that's not a given. There are issues meeting the 48Gbps bandwidth reliably, and without original source material that requires it, it's hard to test for in a consumer environment, let alone certify at the present time.


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## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable mfrs seem to be trying to test for the full complement but that's not a given. There are issues meeting the 48Gbps bandwidth reliably, and without original source material that requires it, it's hard to test for in a consumer environment, let alone certify at the present time.


which is why the mandatory certification for cables for "ultra high speed" is SO important...
hdmi 21. is a feature set ... last thing is spend a fortune on a cable or even a cheap one run though walls and ceiling or underfloor to find down track it doesnt support some particular feature you really need


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## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> which is why the mandatory certification for cables for "ultra high speed" is SO important...
> hdmi 21. is a feature set ... last thing is spend a fortune on a cable or even a cheap one run though walls and ceiling or underfloor to find down track it doesnt support some particular feature you really need


I agree. Another stumbling block is that the current HDMI 2.1 specs designates the max distance for passive cables is 3m (9'). Longer than that, an active cable is recommended. However, HDMI.org currently does not certify active cables, of any kind. I really dislike HDMI.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. Another stumbling block is that the current HDMI 2.1 specs designates the max distance for passive cables is 3m (9'). Longer than that, an active cable is recommended. However, HDMI.org currently does not certify active cables, of any kind. I really dislike HDMI.


it would be good ... if since they specify mandatory certification of ultra high speed cables to support hdmi 2.1 that they then list which cables are actually certified... as currently I have no idea of even one certified ultra high speed cable ! 

the wire world cable mentioned above might be the first perhaps ... but if is it should be clearly stated so. like now the certified label and QR code and such.


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## bryantc

The cable makers only need to test for bandwidth. The options are determined solely by the devices at either end.

With older cables you needed to look out for optional "ethernet/earc" capability but that is now required for all Ultra 2.1 cables.


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## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> the wire world cable mentioned above might be the first perhaps ... but if is it should be clearly stated so. like now the certified label and QR code and such.


It's unclear if HDMI.org will offer a QR label for the UHS HDMI cables like they currently do for the PHS HDMI cables. I do know that the name, 'Ultra High Speed HDMI" cables has been registered by HDMI.org as the official designation so that may be all we get once they start certifying passive cables. However, cable mfrs are very clever so expect to see variations on that name which is done soley to confuse the consumer into thinking that the cable is certified.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> It's unclear if HDMI.org will offer a QR label for the UHS HDMI cables like they currently do for the PHS HDMI cables. I do know that the name, 'Ultra High Speed HDMI" cables has been registered by HDMI.org as the official designation so that may be all we get once they start certifying passive cables. However, cable mfrs are very clever so expect to see variations on that name which is done soley to confuse the consumer into thinking that the cable is certified.








Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps


Looking for a high speed HDMI cable? ✓ Click here to learn about high speed vs ultra high speed HDMI cable specifications & certification program compliance! HDMI 2.1a




www.hdmi.org





I'm trying to find the press release where they said that the labels were available for purchase by the cable manufacturers.


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## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> The cable makers only need to test for bandwidth. The options are determined solely by the devices at either end.


That may very well be true for the bandwidth. Copper only cables can probably handle the bandwidth up to a certain length, but the cable will be thick and not very flexible, which has its own set of problems. That's one of the reasons for limiting the certified length to 3m. Active cables, especially the hybrid fiber cables, are better suited due to their design to maintain that bandwidth over longer lengths. However, being as they have active chipsets in the connector ends, being able to adequately handle the options sets other than bandwidth become important.


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## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> That's one of the reasons for limiting the certified length to 3m.



This is interesting:


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## G-Rex

I was told by WireWorld that the Stellar cable was 2.1 certified by HDMI.org.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps
> 
> 
> Looking for a high speed HDMI cable? ✓ Click here to learn about high speed vs ultra high speed HDMI cable specifications & certification program compliance! HDMI 2.1a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hdmi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to find the press release where they said that the labels were available for purchase by the cable manufacturers.


If you do find that link please post it. I thought I had it but apparently I've misplaced it, or it was a figment of my imagination. I do know that there were some connectors that had passed CTS for HDMI 2.1 but whether labels were available or not I don't remember.


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## avernar

Here's another interesting item from the FAQ:


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> If you do find that link please post it.







__





Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable Certification Labels Available Now


HDMI.org is the licensing agent to administer licensing of HDMI Specification, promote HDMI technology and provide education on the benefits of HDMI interface.




www.hdmi.org


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> This is interesting:
> 
> View attachment 3039676


That's an update then to the original specification which is good. I had always stated that I hoped the distance for passive cables could be increased above the original 1m-3m length. However, the key takeaway that I see is "expected that passive cables of 5m will be achievable". At 15', the wire gauge will be thick and as I said, that has its own set of problems.

I need to dig around some more and see who Wireworld uses as their ATC for HDMI 2.1 certification and if the entire cable product is batch tested, or if they just install CTS tested connectors. I really hope that they do in fact have HDMI 2.1 certified passive cables, because that would definitely be a step in the right direction. However, full bandwidth eARC on a passive cable at 15' would be remarkable on a cable with limited bend radius.

I do periodically check the HDMI.org site for news and updates. They have apparently worked on their website because in the past it was difficult to find information that one needed.

I just took a quick look at the Wireworld Stellar cables. Apparently these cable are fiber cables (probably hybrid fiber) which means they are active. They do use specialized chipsets from Germany which is very similar to what another hybrid fiber cable does, so that's good. No mention about HDMI 2.1 CTS so my guess is that they test in-house because the cables are active and I don't believe that there are any ATC approved testing labs for active cables of any kind. $500 for 30' is pricey though.


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## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> This is from my notes, which is basically from HDMI.org site.
> (body deleted by gbynum)
> As long as the cable/device mfr lists which of the above options are available then they can market HDMI 2.1, even if it is only one option.


OK, you have said, and I 100% agree, that the cable is the pipe. It looks to me that all that is new with 2.1 is the Ethernet lines for eARC and the 48 gbps bandwidth. As bryantc says, "The options are determined solely by the devices at either end." What am I missing? If the bandwidth is there, aren't all the rest non-issues for cables? Is crosstalk what's keeping cables from working correctly?


----------



## Otto Pylot

I have mentioned numerous times that what you send/receive is determined by the source and sink chipsets, not the cable. Copper wiring is reaching what it can reliably transmit for the higher video standards without some "help" (active connector ends, thicker wire gauge, etc). eARC and VRR (two HDMI 2.1 options) can work just fine with the current Premium High Speed cables as long as the HDMI chipsets are capable of being updated for the protocols. But pushing all of that high bandwidth data down copper only cables creates issues. That's why hybrid fiber cables were created. Glass fiber cores for the high bandwidth requirements surrounded by copper wiring for the low bandwidth requirements (ARC, HDCP, EDID), and why copper only cables were re-designed to handle all that with copper wiring only but kept to the 3m and presumably 5m maximum length. Premium High Speed HDM cables will probably work ok for HDMI 2.1 at lengths <10' but nobody really knows for sure until HDMI devices and source material are available and folks can see how it all plays out in their homes.


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## value

Using BlueJean HDMI cables pictured from my video sources to my Sony 77A9G OLED. Just added Nintendo Switch and daughter says it’s lagging. She swapped cables to the provided cable from switch and claims it went away ! Surprised so would the Ruipro 8K (green) cables help run is about 15 feet total from video box up to TV.


















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> The cable makers only need to test for bandwidth. The options are determined solely by the devices at either end.
> 
> With older cables you needed to look out for optional "ethernet/earc" capability but that is now required for all Ultra 2.1 cables.


That may very well be true but pushing all that data down copper wires alone, reliably, at 30' and longer has proven to be very problematic. Nobody wants to install HDMI cabling that is as thick as a broom handle (a bit of an exaggeration) so thin is better. And thin is a problem. We agree that the HDMI 2.1 options sets are regulated by the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end, nobody disagrees with that, but there are apparently issues with the copper only cables handling the data that requires higher bandwidth than 18Gbps. Eye Diagram tests, Error Rate tests, and Function 1 and 2 tests, struggle with copper only at given lengths so wire geometry and other physical characteristics come into play. Until source material is available that requires the higher bandwidths most Premium High Speed HDMI cables (with ethernet) would probably do just fine for some of the HDMI 2.1 options, all things considered. And I say PHS HDMI cables only because they have to pass the ATC testing if they want that magical QR label of authenticity. Which implies among other things a well built cable.

Another driving factor for the new cables is the consumer. You, myself, and most of the other folks who actively participate here know that a lot of this a/v stuff is marketing directed at the bulk of the buying public who doesn't know any better. They just buy whatever is the "best" based on product descriptions, slick advertising, and clueless sales people. And the marketeers know that. We take the time to post, discuss, respectively argue sometimes, exchange ideas, and learn from each other. That takes time and dedication to a certain degree that the majority of the buying public doesn't have. So, to that end, the cable mfrs have to do something to show that their cables meet those option sets and that means testing of sorts. Testing costs money, as well as the slick marteting and carerfully worded product descriptions that come along with that, and that cost if passed on to the clueless consumer. Truth in advertising, at least with regards to cable mfrs, is a very slippery slope and it still amazes me how they get away with some of their claims.

Active cables, on the other hand, are an entirely different matter.


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## mhmercer

Question: Would it be practical for a manufacturer to build a cable aggregator which allows 48 megabit/second output? I could see using three, 18 megabit/second HDMI cables, connected at both ends to couplers having HDMI ends. That should allow a much cheaper HDMI 2.1 cable solution with only slightly more bulk, and improved physical flexibility.


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## avernar

mhmercer said:


> Question: Would it be practical for a manufacturer to build a cable aggregator which allows 48 megabit/second output? I could see using three, 18 megabit/second HDMI cables, connected at both ends to couplers having HDMI ends. That should allow a much cheaper HDMI 2.1 cable solution with only slightly more bulk, and improved physical flexibility.


No. That would be way more expensive. Copper is not cheap so that would tripple the cost of the cable right there. Add in 8 chips which is more cost and will probably draw more power than the HDMI ports can provide.

Not practical at all.


----------



## mhmercer

avernar said:


> No. That would be way more expensive. Copper is not cheap so that would triple the cost of the cable right there. Add in 8 chips which is more cost and will probably draw more power than the HDMI ports can provide.
> 
> Not practical at all.


Thanks. Trying to find a use for prior generation HDMI cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mhmercer said:


> Thanks. Trying to find a use for prior generation HDMI cables.


You still may be able to use a PHS HDMI cable with HDMI 2.1 for awhile depending on wire gauge, distance, and if you don't need the higher bandwidth. It may be worth a try.


----------



## Takster

Somewhat unsurprisingly, Nvidia RTX 30xx/LG CX owners are reporting* that the Ruipro8K hybrid fiber cable is not working at the higher video modes (like 4K120 4:4:4 10-bit), even when using the USB power adapter. Yet on the same hardware, shorter copper-only Ultra High Speed cables *are *working.

There is no evidence that the "improved" v1.2 cable has entered the market yet so these tests are using the original/CL2 version which was only supposed to have "minor compatibility issues with older devices".

*via Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk reviews, cables supplied/sold by Ruipro.


----------



## alebonau

Takster said:


> Somewhat unsurprisingly, Nvidia RTX 30xx/LG CX owners are reporting* that the Ruipro8K hybrid fiber cable is not working at the higher video modes (like 4K120 4:4:4 10-bit), even when using the USB power adapter. Yet on the same hardware, shorter copper-only Ultra High Speed cables *are *working.


that is a bit unfortunate ... is there a link to such reports ?

while something doesnt work. its also good to log what does... what are these shorter copper only ultra high speed cables ? do they have the mandatory certification ?


----------



## bcabes

alebonau said:


> that is a bit unfortunate ... is there a link to such reports ?
> 
> while something doesnt work. its also good to log what does... what are these shorter copper only ultra high speed cables ? do they have the mandatory certification ?


I just bought a Ruipro8k 12m Cable. It passed 18Gbps but failed 24Gbps on the Denon X4700 HDMI cable test.

I contact Ruipro and I am waiting for a response.


----------



## alebonau

bcabes said:


> I just bought a Ruipro8k 12m Cable. It passed 18Gbps but failed 24Gbps on the Denon X4700 HDMI cable test.
> 
> I contact Ruipro and I am waiting for a response.


well thats a bit of a shame, hopefully hear back from them. good on you for reporting and hope gets resolved.....


----------



## Takster

alebonau said:


> that is a bit unfortunate ... is there a link to such reports ?


1)


Does NOT work at 4K120 with LG OLED and RTX 3080



2)


RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fibre Optic Cable 6m HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.1





alebonau said:


> what are these shorter copper only ultra high speed cables ? do they have the mandatory certification ?


A Belkin cable was mentioned above, not sure about its certification.


----------



## alebonau

Takster said:


> Belkin cable was mentioned above, not sure about its certification.


interesting stuff Takstar... this seems like the start of uhd - Blu-ray all over again where we thought cables that should work...didnt ...

i only ask re the ones that do work as am yet to come across a certified cable myself ... and yet they are supposed to have mandatory certification...

seems like another minefield developing ...


----------



## Takster

bcabes said:


> I just bought a Ruipro8k 12m Cable.


Can you please post the part number [SNAOC....] and batch code [...BRF] printed on the white sleeve?


----------



## bcabes

Takster said:


> Can you please post the part number [SNAOC....] and batch code [...BRF] printed on the white sleeve?


Here


----------



## Takster

bcabes said:


> Here


Thank you, I've updated my list here - it looks like you have the original chipset like everybody else.


----------



## Takster

alebonau said:


> i only ask re the ones that do work as am yet to come across a certified cable myself ... and yet they are supposed to have mandatory certification...


I see. I expect to see more activity now as the new consoles are released next month.



alebonau said:


> seems like another minefield developing ...


I agree, the Ruipro8K cable can cost several hundred dollars in some countries, and I've always been skeptical of their undocumented part numbers and evasive communication with the general public.

Let's hope the "Life time" warranty is actually honored as there will be a lot of RMAs coming their way!


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## Otto Pylot

Ruipro does not change their product numbers to reflect a new iteration of cable. In other words, the original 4k and 8k cables will have the same product number so there is no way of telling if you have the newest iteration of cable or not. I've mentioned this to them in the past and will bring it up again. The cable label around the connector will be different tho and the small label is for batch tracking. 

They are on holiday now so it may take another week or so to get a response. I am a bit surprised that the 8k cable only passed 24Gbps but that is the problem that they had in the past with the first iteration. In that the cable didn't play nicely with some devices so they have been working on improving the chipsets for better compatibility across the board. 8k is continuing to be an issue for all cable mfrs so it's still going to be trial and error. 

This is what I've been saying all along. Lab testing, without standardized certification is one thing, but we'll never really know how any of the cables perform until certified HDMI 2.1 devices are commonplace and the source material that requires the higher bandwidths is available. That's starting to happen now so this really isn't surprising. Unfortunate, but not surprising.


----------



## Takster

Otto Pylot said:


> the original 4k and 8k cables will have the same product number so there is no way of telling if you have the newest iteration of cable or not.


There is no evidence that a new iteration (upgraded chipset) of either cable exists anywhere in public hands right now. So there is no need for them to update the product number until they actually release a proper upgrade to the cable.



> The cable label around the connector will be different tho and the small label is for batch tracking.


On the Ruipro8K, there are only two identical white sleeve labels on each end, just below the connector, with the product/part number and batch code printed.



> I am a bit surprised that the 8k cable only passed 24Gbps but that is the problem that they had in the past with the first iteration.


That's because the only cables available in the market currently are still the first iteration of the cables. Therefore, even the most freshly purchased cables are exhibiting the same problems.



> In that the cable didn't play nicely with some devices so they have been working on improving the chipsets for better compatibility across the board


It makes sense for them to wait until more consumer hardware appears (the Nvidia cards, the Denon X4700, and the consoles next month) to perform their tests on before releasing a proper upgrade of the cable. But they need to be upfront with their customers - the current iteration of the Ruipro8K cable is garbage - these need to be removed from sale, and existing owners need to be informed that the cable can only reliably operate at around 18Gbps on consumer hardware.



> This is what I've been saying all along. Lab testing, without standardized certification is one thing, but we'll never really know how any of the cables perform until certified HDMI 2.1 devices are commonplace and the source material that requires the higher bandwidths is available. That's starting to happen now so this really isn't surprising. Unfortunate, but not surprising.


You were right, and laying conduit is the only way to future-proof enclosed spaces.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Takster said:


> There is no evidence that a new iteration (upgraded chipset) of either cable exists anywhere in public hands right now. So there is no need for them to update the product number until they actually release a proper upgrade to the cable.
> 
> 
> On the Ruipro8K, there are only two identical white sleeve labels on each end, just below the connector, with the product/part number and batch code printed.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because the only cables available in the market currently are still the first iteration of the cables. Therefore, even the most freshly purchased cables are exhibiting the same problems.
> 
> 
> 
> It makes sense for them to wait until more consumer hardware appears (the Nvidia cards, the Denon X4700, and the consoles next month) to perform their tests on before releasing a proper upgrade of the cable. But they need to be upfront with their customers - the current iteration of the Ruipro8K cable is garbage - these need to be removed from sale, and existing owners need to be informed that the cable can only reliably operate at around 18Gbps on consumer hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> You were right, and laying conduit is the only way to future-proof enclosed spaces.


Unfortunately Ruipro has no control over resellers (Amazon for example) on what they have in stock and are selling to the public. The amount of units that the resellers have is not for public knowledge so there is a discrepancy between "old" and "new" cable in the marketplace. And with the product numbers being the same, that makes it a bit more difficult. Amazon et al does have the new cables but it's up to them as to what they sell to the public with regards to their stock on hand. Purchasing directly from Ruipro would probably be your best bet.

I have seen the 8k in-house test data and the cable does in fact pass 48Gbps. Consumer devices, as I have said, will be more challenging because of the sheer number of devices that the cables will have to be compatible with and how the individual devices implement the HDMI 2.1 option sets. 18Gbps was relatively easy, all things considered, but 40Gbps-48Gbps is very difficult, especially at long lengths. 

From what I've read and seen so far, the Denon X4700 cable test is not that reliable or at the very least inconsistent. Independent testing is what is going to be needed, especially for the gamers who are the ones most interested in HDMI 2.1 so far, to see how the cables perform in the wild. Cable mfrs are going crazy trying to get their cables to play nice with some of the new devices just coming to market who claim HDMI 2.1 without any validation information.


----------



## WhartoX

I have an RTX 3090 and a LG B9 OLED. Here are the cables I have bought and tested.

Working at 4K 120hz 12-bit color:

Amazon.com: Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 16ft, 8K60 4K120 144Hz eARC HDR10 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Xbox PS4 PS5 Apple TV 4K Roku Fire TV Switch Vizio Sony LG Samsung: Industrial & Scientific

Works ok at 4K 60 hz 8-bit but DOES NOT work at 4K 120 8-bit, 10-bit or 12-bit:

Amazon.com: 8K Optic Fiber HDMI 2.1 Cable 65FT, UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps,[email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR 10, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4 Compatible with PS4,TV Box,Projector.8K TV.Etc: Industrial & Scientific

Club 3D CAC-1379 20m 65.62ft Hdmi 2.1 High Speed Aoc Cable.

I have the B9 in my office with the PC that has the 3090 and a 16 foot Zeskit that works ok and I have a LG C9 OLED downstairs that I need a 65 foot cable that can carry 4K 120hz 10 or 12 bit. Following this thread so I can find a cable for a reasonable price that can carry that resolution and refresh rate. I'm tempted to try this cable next but I'm doubtful it will work.


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## Otto Pylot

65' is going to difficult for any cable so all you can do is try. If your cable is in-wall, and installed in a conduit (as it should be at that length) then swapping out a cable until you find one that works won't be that difficult. Regardless of what a cable mfr claims, no one can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work adequately with your devices and cable installation plan.

At 16', most well-made cables, especially a hybrid fiber cable, should work fine. It's those 20' and plus runs that are problematic.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> 65' is going to difficult for any cable so all you can do is try. If your cable is in-wall, and installed in a conduit (as it should be at that length) then swapping out a cable until you find one that works won't be that difficult. Regardless of what a cable mfr claims, no one can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work adequately with your devices and cable installation plan.
> 
> At 16', most well-made cables, especially a hybrid fiber cable, should work fine. It's those 20' and plus runs that are problematic.


the 10m or 32foot is a good target for cable makers... it was boundary too far for most old copper with uhd and i wonder how well new ultra high speed cables manage over that length for full bandwidth 48gbps ! let alone all bit depths, frame rates and colour spaces...


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## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> the 10m or 32foot is a good target for cable makers... it was boundary too far for most old copper with uhd and i wonder how well new ultra high speed cables manage over that length for full bandwidth 48gbps ! let alone all bit depths, frame rates and colour spaces...


I agree. But a lot of video enthusiasts (and gamers) have runs longer than 30', so tried and true copper-only cables aren't going to cut it. At this point in time, there are no "certified" (passive only) UHS cables that will work at that length. 3m (9') is the original spec and I understand that has been extended to 5m (15') with some cables. Trial and error is still with us.


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## provenflipper

Anyone else using the Zeskit 15ft cable? The 20ft Ruipro I bought is too long, so I was going to exchange it for the 5m version.

If this cable is proven to work, I wouldn’t mind saving the $100 extra.


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## WhartoX

provenflipper said:


> Anyone else using the Zeskit 15ft cable? The 20ft Ruipro I bought is too long, so I was going to exchange it for the 5m version.
> 
> If this cable is proven to work, I wouldn’t mind saving the $100 extra.


I have the Zeskit 15ft and it works perfectly. It can carry 4k120 12-bit HDR with no problems.


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## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> I have the Zeskit 15ft and it works perfectly. It can carry 4k120 12-bit HDR with no problems.


Up to about 20' is the magic point for most active cables (copper only or hybrid fiber).


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## deezwho

1. Is there any cable out there that can actually support [email protected] HDR in a 75ft run in real world settings?

2. Has anyone tested the monoprice 8k cables yet? Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 200ft, Black - Monoprice.com


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## Otto Pylot

deezwho said:


> 1. Is there any cable out there that can actually support [email protected] HDR in a 75ft run in real world settings?
> 
> No. At least not verified by actual users.
> 
> 2. Has anyone tested the monoprice 8k cables yet? Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 200ft, Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> Some have. But there is no way to verify the mfrs claims with current consumer devices. Anything longer than about 50' is going to be problematic for 4k HDR and beyond.


----------



## deezwho

If that's the case, am I better off just buying something cheaper that can hit [email protected] like this one WhartoX mentioned above? Amazon.com: 8K Optic Fiber HDMI 2.1 Cable 65FT, UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps,[email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR 10, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4 Compatible with PS4,TV Box,Projector.8K TV.Etc: Industrial & Scientific

It's only $105 for 65ft vs spending more than double that on the Monoprice 8k or Ruipro 8k cables which sound like they cant hit [email protected] in real life anyway? 

Or are these cables just so finicky that they might theoretically work in any given setting so you have to buy them all and test them one by one?


It's going through smurf tube anyway so I can always replace it with legit 48Gbps cable once that exists in long runs but I need something for right now.


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## Otto Pylot

deezwho said:


> If that's the case, am I better off just buying something cheaper that can hit [email protected] like this one WhartoX mentioned above? Amazon.com: 8K Optic Fiber HDMI 2.1 Cable 65FT, UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps,[email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR 10, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4 Compatible with PS4,TV Box,Projector.8K TV.Etc: Industrial & Scientific
> 
> It's only $105 for 65ft vs spending more than double that on the Monoprice 8k or Ruipro 8k cables which sound like they cant hit [email protected] in real life anyway?
> 
> Or are these cables just so finicky that they might theoretically work in any given setting so you have to buy them all and test them one by one?
> 
> 
> It's going through smurf tube anyway so I can always replace it with legit 48Gbps cable once that exists in long runs but I need something for right now.


If you have conduit installed then that's the ONLY way to truly future proof your system so you are way ahead of a lot of folks with long runs in that regards. Speaking of long runs, distance is one of the major killers of any cable that tries to push 4k HDR and beyond.

4k HDR is very finicky with its connections and what the cable is connected to. Copper only cables or passive cables with extenders just doesn't have the capacity to maintain signal integrity over longs lengths (and 65' is very long) without a much thicker wire gauge which creates its own set of issues. That's why active hybrid fibers cables were designed and what is going to be needed for those long runs. Even so, the proprietary components and chipsets in cables like Ruipro's are constantly being improved upon (part of the reason for the cables cost) for device compatibility and signal integrity.

Certified cables for HDMI 2.1 will never be attainable, at present, for runs longer than maybe 15', and not certifiable for active cables in general so it is going to be trial and error still for a very long time. With the use of conduit, you can try various cables until you find one that meets your needs and expectations that hopefully work for a long time. Just lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installing and be careful installing the cable because you don't want to pulling the cable by the connector ends and be mindful of bend radius.

Video technology will always outpace connection technology so these questions and issues will be with us for a long time.


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## provenflipper

I ordered the Zeskit 15ft cable and will be returning the Ruipro 6m cable I have.

Hopefully the Zeskit works in my setup as well as it has for others.


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## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> I ordered the Zeskit 15ft cable and will be returning the Ruipro 6m cable I have.
> 
> Hopefully the Zeskit works in my setup as well as it has for others.


Did the Ruipro cable not work?


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## provenflipper

Otto Pylot said:


> Did the Ruipro cable not work?


The Ruipro was working for what I had it doing right now, but I ordered a size too big. Figured I would try out the Zeskit and save $100 as it appears to work in the length that I need.


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## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> The Ruipro was working for what I had it doing right now, but I ordered a size too big. Figured I would try out the Zeskit and save $100 as it appears to work in the length that I need.


Ah, ok. I hope the Zeskit works out for the long haul.


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## georgi74

Hello everyone!

I bought an rtx 3080 card I want to use with my LG C9 TV and want to run 4k/120Hz 4:4:4 10 bits. Best would be a cable that is 25 feet, but I can arrange it so that a cable with 15 feet is enough.

Has anyone ever had the success of getting a 25 feet cable to run at 4k/120Hz?

I read that the Zeskit 15 feet cable will work, but I can not get that in Germany. Maybe in Germany it is different brand name?

Another user in Germany is claiming that he got a 30 feet fibre cable to run on the LG CX with a 3080, and I bought the same cable even a bit shorter but it doesn't work for me. At this point I just don't belive him anymore.


----------



## Otto Pylot

georgi74 said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I bought an rtx 3080 card I want to use with my LG C9 TV and want to run 4k/120Hz 4:4:4 10 bits. Best would be a cable that is 25 feet, but I can arrange it so that a cable with 15 feet is enough.
> 
> Has anyone ever had the success of getting a 25 feet cable to run at 4k/120Hz?
> 
> I read that the Zeskit 15 feet cable will work, but I can not get that in Germany. Maybe in Germany it is different brand name?
> 
> Another user in Germany is claiming that he got a 30 feet fibre cable to run on the LG CX with a 3080, and I bought the same cable even a bit shorter but it doesn't work for me. At this point I just don't belive him anymore.


At around 25' or so, you shouldn't have any issues with a hybrid fiber cable, either the Zeskit or the recommended Ruipro8k. Just make sure you have a single cable run, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. The new HDMI 2.1 devices are still in their infancy so active cable compatibility is going to be an on-going issue until the certified HDMI 2.1 option sets are widely available and active hybrid fiber cables are tweaked for the wide range of HDMI 2.1 chipsets. In theory, if the chipsets in the devices are certified then there shouldn't be an issue with any cable but in reality, there is and will be. Active cables can not be certified so you're up to the cable mfr and how they "validate" their cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. For the gamers who want some of the new HDMI 2.1 option sets, it's going to be trial and error. Whatever you get just lay it out on the floor and test it before installation to make sure that it is going to meet your needs. For those who have in-wall installations, this is where the use of a conduit is almost mandatory because it may take a few tries to find a cable that will work.


----------



## EyeWasAbducted

Are there any right angle 2.1 cables or right angle adapters available right now that work with a 2.1 cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

EyeWasAbducted said:


> Are there any right angle 2.1 cables or right angle adapters available right now that work with a 2.1 cable?


There are no "HDMI 2.1" cables, only cables that have been tested, by various means, for some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. No guarantee as to how accurate the product descriptions or any way to verify them at the consumer level. As to right angle adapters, all you can do is try. 4k HDR and beyond is finicky with its connections and does not play nicely at times when there are extenders, adapters, wall plates etc in-between the single cable run from source to sink.


----------



## Takster

georgi74 said:


> Has anyone ever had the success of getting a 25 feet cable to run at 4k/120Hz?


No evidence so far.


----------



## Takster

Otto Pylot said:


> At around 25' or so, you shouldn't have any issues with a hybrid fiber cable, either the Zeskit or the recommended Ruipro8k.


1) The Zeskit is a copper-only cable available up to 16'

2) I don't see anyone recommending the only available iteration of the Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cable when it still has a 0% success rate at the highest video modes with consumer hardware.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Takster said:


> 1) The Zeskit is a copper-only cable available up to 16'
> 
> 2) I don't see anyone recommending the only available iteration of the Ruipro8k hybrid fiber cable when it still has a 0% success rate at the highest video modes with consumer hardware.


I hadn't looked into the Zeskit cable but if it's copper only, then I'm surprised that it has the success that is apparently being reported. Copper only usually doesn't have the capacity to handle the higher bandwidths at long lengths being as all of the data is travelling down the same set of copper wires. It's interesting that the cable product description calls the cable "8k Ultra HD High Speed HDMI cable", not the official "Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. The connectors are apparently certified by an ATC but the cable body is not labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI. No mention of the wire gauge. 

At 15', the cable should work as that is the maximum cable length for a cable that is validated for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. 3m (9') was the original maximum length but some mfrs have been able to push that to 5m. Unfortunately that doesn't help the folks who want a longer cable and really don't have a choice but to look towards hybrid fiber cables. 15' may be too short for active cables on some setups. I've tested the first iteration of the Ruipro8k on my system and didn't have any issues but I don't have any devices that have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets to test some of the higher bandwidth options.

The "failure" that you claim the Ruipro8k cables have could be attributed to the older design chipsets that the first iteration has. Ruipro has since upgraded their proprietary chipsets but sadly they have made it a little difficult for the consumer to know which version one has. Compatibility with active cables is always going to be an issue because while the devices may have certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets, the power output for the HDMI ports has not changed and that may be part of the issue. Given the bandwidth speeds, it doesn't take much for any fluctuation in the current output to affect the chipsets in the connector ends of the cables. That's why mfrs like Ruipro include voltage inserters with their cables in case that helps.

If I was hell-bent on HDMI 2.1, I wouldn't use an active cable at lengths shorter than 5m maximum and would use a passive cable that has a proven certification and one that meets all of the marketing guidelines set forth by HDMI.org. Above 5m, there are no certified cables so one has to start looking for a hybrid fiber cable that will work. No guarantees as it is sill trial and error.


----------



## christofin

I just posted this on another thread: I have yet to find a single fiber cable that is working. 

For fiber HDMI cables that are at least 10m, I've bought and tested *four *different brands thus far from Amazon and *none *of them work above 4K/60hz/8bit444 or 10bit422. These are the ones I've tested that *don't *work:

RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 12m
8K Fiber HDMI Cable 40ft, BIFALE
CABLEDECONN 8K HDMI Optic Cable (50ft)
ConnBull 8K 4K HDMI 120Hz Cable (50ft)

All of the above do NOT work above the 18gbps limitations so AVOID AT ALL COSTS. The only cable I've gotten to work is the Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 6.5ft.

From what I'm reading here, there aren't any reliable working cables. What is the lengthiest cable that is known to work thus far and what brand? I'm reading bad things about Zeskit on the C9/CX threads, yet in here it seems to be the most reliable brand mentioned.


----------



## bcabes

christofin said:


> I just posted this on another thread: I have yet to find a single fiber cable that is working.
> 
> For fiber HDMI cables that are at least 10m, I've bought and tested *four *different brands thus far from Amazon and *none *of them work above 4K/60hz/8bit444 or 10bit422. These are the ones I've tested that *don't *work:
> 
> RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 12m
> 8K Fiber HDMI Cable 40ft, BIFALE
> CABLEDECONN 8K HDMI Optic Cable (50ft)
> ConnBull 8K 4K HDMI 120Hz Cable (50ft)
> 
> All of the above do NOT work above the 18gbps limitations so AVOID AT ALL COSTS. The only cable I've gotten to work is the Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 6.5ft.
> 
> From what I'm reading here, there aren't any reliable working cables. What is the lengthiest cable that is known to work thus far and what brand? I'm reading bad things about Zeskit on the C9/CX threads, yet in here it seems to be the most reliable brand mentioned.


I can confirm that I had the same issues with both Ruipro and Connbull cables from Amazon listed above.

Ruipro is on holiday this week, but I contacted them and they are sending me a new cable.


----------



## christofin

bcabes said:


> I can confirm that I had the same issues with both Ruipro and Connbull cables from Amazon listed above.
> 
> Ruipro is on holiday this week, but I contacted them and they are sending me a new cable.


I wouldn't expect it to work either but keep us updated.


----------



## Ratman

christofin said:


> The only cable I've gotten to work is the Zeskit @ 6.5'


That's a big difference from the others you listed at:
12M
40'
and 2 others @ 50'.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> That's a big difference from the others you listed at:
> 12M
> 40'
> and 2 others @ 50'.


Yep. It's only valid if the same length is used.


----------



## christofin

I wasn't trying to compare it directly, I was just drawing attention to the fact that the only cable I did manage to get working was a 2m cable. I'm hoping to return it if I can get one that's longer, but it's good to know that the issue is at least isolated to the cable length.


----------



## Ratman

christofin said:


> .... but it's good to know that the issue is at least isolated to the cable length.


Yup!
That's been mentioned/stressed a gazillion times. Especially with the highest of video resolutions.


----------



## talldrink67

Ratman said:


> Yup!
> That's been mentioned/stressed a gazillion times. Especially with the highest of video resolutions.


I just hope im not SOL due to length. A 6.5ft cable will not work with my current setup, end up about a ft short.
So next step up is 10ft. Looking to find cables for the connection between my LG CX and the future PS5 and Xbox Series X.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> I wasn't trying to compare it directly, I was just drawing attention to the fact that the only cable I did manage to get working was a 2m cable. I'm hoping to return it if I can get one that's longer, but it's good to know that the issue is at least isolated to the cable length.


2m is within the original spec (1m - 3m) for passive Ultra High Speed HDMI cables so that's not surprising. Anything longer than that, maybe up to 5m (15') may also be able to be certified but longer than that, no certification for UHS cables is available, and active cables of any length and type can not be certified by an ATC for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.


----------



## alb92

Might be bit of a long shot.

Has anyone tried the Dacota Platinum HDMI2.1 2m cable? The cable I bought online does not work at 4K120hz, and this cable is the only one that I can get tomorrow (live remotely, and this one is even an 1hr drive to get), else I'll have to get something of the net.

It's priced at nearly 3x the one I bought that doesn't work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Any cable mfr that advertises their cables as "HDMI 2.1" cables is suspect. If the cable has actually been certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, the cable should be listed as Ultra High Speed HDMI cable, which is the trademarked name by HDMI.org. If the cable is an active cable, they can't be certified. 2m is certainly within the certifiable length for passive cables but without actually being able to read the cable specs it's difficult to say.


----------



## Hotobu

I needed a cable a few months ago, knew I'd eventually be upgrading to an HDMI 2.1 GPU, and decided to get something that was supposed to be fully compatible. I was recommended the Ruripro cable that was being talked about a few pages back. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SDZZ14/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I still don't have an HDMI 2.1 source, so I have no way to test it, but apparently it wont perform up to snuff. Is there anything I can do or am I screwed? Does anyone have any experience with RMA and Ruipro and this kind of thing?


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is no way for the consumer to determine whether any cable will meet their expectations until the cable can be tested with their own equipment and setup with the formats they want. As I've been saying for quite some time now, there are no 100% guarantees by any cable mfr that their cable will absolutely work with all devices. While there are standards that must be met to label a device that is either compatible or fully meets all the HDMI 2.1 options sets, there is no communication between cable mfrs and device mfrs to have their products tested against the cables before the device mfrs release their products. That way the device mfr can blame the cable if expectations are not met. HDMI 2.1 is not necessarily HDMI 2.1 if customized chipsets are used. Just because the HDMI 2.1 chipsets "pass" the HDMI 2.1 options set testing, additional features to the chipsets may not be compatible with some of the active hybrid fiber cables because most of them, at least in the case of Ruipro, use customized chipsets in their connector ends that may not play nice with these newer chipsets. Device compatibility is going to be an ongoing issue.

If the Ruipro cable is working as expected now, then leave it alone and just wait until you get your HDMI 2.1 device and then see if it works. Ruipro does offer a lifetime warranty so you could probably return it. Ruipro is good about returns so I'd just wait. GPU mfrs like Nvidia are pushing their new devices out the door now to take advantage of the early adopters and the upcoming holiday season. It may take awhile before you can find a cable that will work as expected if the Ruipro cable doesn't pan out.

Connected devices, cable installation, cable distance, etc all play a big part in how successful of a cable connection you're going to have, so it's not always just the cable. Video technology will always outpace connection technology and the device mfrs know that. But they are only concerned about selling their product. Until certified HDMI 2.1 devices are commonplace, and the cable mfrs actually have a chance to test their cables with these devices, issues will abound. Gamers are the unwitting beta testers for HDMI 2.1 at present.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> There is no way for the consumer to determine whether any cable will meet their expectations until the cable can be tested with their own equipment and setup with the formats they want. As I've been saying for quite some time now, there are no 100% guarantees by any cable mfr that their cable will absolutely work with all devices.


this is where mandatory certification comes in doesnt it ? where is it 

after the minefield that cables were for 4k uhd... I found the premium certified program refreshing and provides some certainty...

seems we are a long ways off mandatory certification as specified by hdmi org for ultra high speed cables ...

with all manner of non certified cables in the wild again its back to the laws of the jungle


----------



## Arec

Finally getting around to upgrading the components. Should have the X3700H and a Ruipro 33ft 8K fiber optic active cable set up next week. I think the Denon has the capability do some diagnostics on the cable itself so I may try that once I get them in.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> this is where mandatory certification comes in doesnt it ? where is it
> 
> after the minefield that cables were for 4k uhd... I found the premium certified program refreshing and provides some certainty...
> 
> seems we are a long ways off mandatory certification as specified by hdmi org for ultra high speed cables ...
> 
> with all manner of non certified cables in the wild again its back to the laws of the jungle


Certification is a slippery slope right now with HDMI 2.1. With regards to cables, HDMI.org has the Ultra High Speed HDMI program but it has taken a lot longer from what I understand just to get the connectors to pass CTS. As far as testing the entire cable product (connectors and cabling) I haven't been able to find out if that's required or not to claim UHS HDMI cables. There are cables with certified connectors so maybe the "wiring" doesn't need to be certified as well. Not sure how that works. However, this is for passive cables up to 9' and maybe, just maybe 15'. Active cables? Forget it. The best that can be hoped for is that the cable mfr uses sophisticated in-house instrumentation that most other cable mfrs use to say their active cables pass HDMI 2.1. That's about as close to standardization as we're going to currently get. And as far as agreed upon tolerance ranges (pass or no pass) I don't think that's even standardized for the active cable testing.

Then you add to the mess what the actual HDMI 2.1 chipsets being used are and tweaked to the different device mfrs and it's just one giant cluster****.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Arec said:


> Finally getting around to upgrading the components. Should have the X3700H and a Ruipro 33ft 8K fiber optic active cable set up next week. I think the Denon has the capability do some diagnostics on the cable itself so I may try that once I get them in.


Keep in mind that highly accurate and reliable HDMI bandwidth cable testing equipment costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Its doubtful that Denon would install a highly accurate bandwidth tester that most customers will never use and keep the cost of the new receivers reasonable and/or competitive. Some of the early reports I've seen indicates that the bandwidth tester in the new line of Denon receivers is questionable as far as accuracy goes.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> The best that can be hoped for is that the cable mfr uses sophisticated in-house instrumentation that most other cable mfrs use to say their active cables pass HDMI 2.1. That's about as close to standardization as we're going to currently get. And as far as agreed upon tolerance ranges (pass or no pass) I don't think that's even standardized for the active cable testing


but thats how we have ended up with the ruipro mess though...



Otto Pylot said:


> Then you add to the mess what the actual HDMI 2.1 chipsets being used are and tweaked to the different device mfrs and it's just one giant cluster****.


agree complete mess AGAIN ! 

can't beleive it ... 

definitely wont be bleeding edging it with this time ! 

why we so badly need hdmi org to get with the program !~ and get the mandatory certification happening  or the mess continues !


----------



## Tony37x

How about these available in 1.5ft to 8ft lengths? I know Monoprice has been pretty reputable for a while now.

Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 48Gbps, 8K, Dynamic HDR, eARC






Monoprice 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6ft - 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com


DynamicView™ 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation of HDMI cables. Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this future proofed cable just might be the l



www.monoprice.com


----------



## Arec

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that highly accurate and reliable HDMI bandwidth cable testing equipment costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Its doubtful that Denon would install a highly accurate bandwidth tester that most customers will never use and keep the cost of the new receivers reasonable and/or competitive. Some of the early reports I've seen indicates that the bandwidth tester in the new line of Denon receivers is questionable as far as accuracy goes.


I’m not expecting professional level testing equipment but perhaps some data is better than no data. If the cable doesn’t work at the claimed speed I’ll return it and get a cheaper 4K/60 cable until we have more options for 4K/120 & 8K/60.

I’m not going to keep a $160 cable that doesn’t perform as advertised.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Arec said:


> I’m not expecting professional level testing equipment but perhaps some data is better than no data. If the cable doesn’t work at the claimed speed I’ll return it and get a cheaper 4K/60 cable until we have more options for 4K/120 & 8K/60.
> 
> I’m not going to keep a $160 cable that doesn’t perform as advertised.


Keep looking then. You could be tossing away a perfectly good cable based on unreliable data.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tony37x said:


> How about these available in 1.5ft to 8ft lengths? I know Monoprice has been pretty reputable for a while now.
> 
> Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable, 48Gbps, 8K, Dynamic HDR, eARC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6ft - 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> DynamicView™ 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation of HDMI cables. Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this future proofed cable just might be the l
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3044723


All you can do is try. Until there is source material that requires 40Gbps - 48Gbps there will be no way to accurately check the cable on consumer devices. The length is fine for the HDMI 2.1 cable length specifications but as to how it will actually perform with HDMI 2.1 hardware and source material is hit and miss.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> but thats how we have ended up with the ruipro mess though...
> 
> 
> agree complete mess AGAIN !
> 
> can't beleive it ...
> 
> definitely wont be bleeding edging it with this time !
> 
> why we so badly need hdmi org to get with the program !~ and get the mandatory certification happening  or the mess continues !


Yep. Just wait till more and more gamers purchase the new "HDMI 2.1" consoles and GPU cards only to be disappointed that it's not what they had hoped for. They'll just blame the cables. As far as mandatory certification goes, if the cable mfrs use the name Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (exact wording) and list which HDMI 2.1 option sets the cable supports, they can claim the cable is certified for HDMI 2.1, just like Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified for HDMI 2.0.

Ruipro does thoroughly test their cables with industry-standard testing equipment and that's about as good as it can currently get. Their chipsets are proprietary but they just don't have the R&D capacity (read: budget) to additionally test their cables with shipping HDMI 2.1 devices (consoles, GPU cards, etc). They will be constantly tweaking their chipsets to be more compatible with more devices but it's an uphill battle all the way.

If the industry could agree upon one set of HDMI 2.1 hardware chipsets, validate them by standardized protocols, and then allow them to be available to the cable mfrs so they could design their active chipsets for better compatibility we wouldn't be in this mess. And, if the HDMI hardware chipsets could be designed with more current output it would be easier for the active chipsets in the cables to be designed to better handle current fluctuations.


----------



## bcabes

@Arec please post you testing when you get your setup. I have seen similar comments that @Otto Pylot mentioned that the Denon HDMI tests are not perfect with some people getting different results from run to run. That being said, I have a Denon X4700 with the same Ruipro cable and it always passed at 18 Gbps and failed at 24 Gbps.

I am curious if you get the same or different results. I need about a 30 foot cable now and so far Ruipro seems like the best option.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bcabes said:


> @Arec please post you testing when you get your setup. I have seen similar comments that @Otto Pylot mentioned that the Denon HDMI tests are not perfect with some people getting different results from run to run. That being said, I have a Denon X4700 with the same Ruipro cable and it always passed at 18 Gbps and failed at 24 Gbps.
> 
> I am curious if you get the same or different results. I need about a 30 foot cable now and so far Ruipro seems like the best option.


Please get back to us with your Denon results if you test another Ruipro cable. I'd like to send some data summaries to my contact at Ruipro once they are back from holiday.


----------



## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. Just wait till more and more gamers purchase the new "HDMI 2.1" consoles and GPU cards only to be disappointed that it's not what they had hoped for. They'll just blame the cables. As far as mandatory certification goes, if the cable mfrs use the name Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (exact wording) and list which HDMI 2.1 option sets the cable supports, they can claim the cable is certified for HDMI 2.1, just like Premium High Speed HDMI cables are certified for HDMI 2.0.
> 
> Ruipro does thoroughly test their cables with industry-standard testing equipment and that's about as good as it can currently get. Their chipsets are proprietary but they just don't have the R&D capacity (read: budget) to additionally test their cables with shipping HDMI 2.1 devices (consoles, GPU cards, etc). They will be constantly tweaking their chipsets to be more compatible with more devices but it's an uphill battle all the way.
> 
> If the industry could agree upon one set of HDMI 2.1 hardware chipsets, validate them by standardized protocols, and then allow them to be available to the cable mfrs so they could design their active chipsets for better compatibility we wouldn't be in this mess. And, if the HDMI hardware chipsets could be designed with more current output it would be easier for the active chipsets in the cables to be designed to better handle current fluctuations.


Do any of the cable manufacturers test the products on TVs? Wouldn’t LG TVs be tested first for compatibility since last year they had 2.1 ports. Granted up until now there haven’t been any sources. It’s not like there’s a ton of Displays right now that have 2.1. I have a feeling LG is working with Sony and Microsoft to make sure the new consoles work well with their OLEDs. 
I find it interesting that next gen Xbox HDMI tops out at 40 Gbps exactly like the 2020 LG OLEDs. A step down from the 2019 which has full 48 Gbps ports. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Do any of the cable manufacturers test the products on TVs? Wouldn’t LG TVs be tested first for compatibility since last year they had 2.1 ports. Granted up until now there haven’t been any sources. It’s not like there’s a ton of Displays right now that have 2.1. I have a feeling LG is working with Sony and Microsoft to make sure the new consoles work well with their OLEDs.
> I find it interesting that next gen Xbox HDMI tops out at 40 Gbps exactly like the 2020 LG OLEDs. A step down from the 2019 which has full 48 Gbps ports.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From what I read on the LG Forum earlier in the year, the LG HDMI 2.1 chipset was "modified" so what exactly that means as far as cable compatibility means I don't know. Some cable mfrs probably do test their cables on tv's but by the time they have a final product ready for shipping, there may have been mods made to the tv, or vice versa so an incompatibility may occur. It's really hard to determine what any of the mfrs do because it's all proprietary. The dropping of 48Gbps to 40Gbps is just another example of the problems mfrs are having with the original spec of 48Gbps and the fact that there still isn't source material that requires the full 48Gbps bandwidth, at least not for the video market. Gamers are a whole different matter because the game developers don't have to follow the same video standards that movie makers do. Gamers are the test market for HDMI 2.1.


----------



## id_mew

Hi, so I have the LGCX48 connected to my 3080 using a 2.1 HDMI cable. When powering on my PC sometimes I get "no signal" message. Resetting my PC fixes the issue. This doesn't happen all the time and it appears to be random. Do you think it's the HDMI cable causing this issue?
I have this cable bere: 
IBRA Orange 2.1 HDMI Cord


----------



## Otto Pylot

id_mew said:


> Hi, so I have the LGCX48 connected to my 3080 using a 2.1 HDMI cable. When powering on my PC sometimes I get "no signal" message. Resetting my PC fixes the issue. This doesn't happen all the time and it appears to be random. Do you think it's the HDMI cable causing this issue?
> I have this cable bere:
> IBRA Orange 2.1 HDMI Cord


The fact that the cable is listed as: "IBRA ORANGE HDMI 2.1 CORD" goes against the naming convention that HDMI.org demands from all cable mfrs. There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable, so the cable is questionable. The product description is also just boiler plate cable description. If you want a cable that has been tested and verified to work for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, you need to look for a cable listed as an Ultra High Speed HDMI cable (exact wording) and read the product specifications very carefully. The cable will be passive only because active cables can not be certified and the maximum length will be 9' - 15' (possibly). Even if find a legitimate UHS HDMI Cable, there's no guarantee that it will work. There's a lot more to a successful connection for the HDMI 2.1 options sets than the data pipe, which is the cable.

From what you describe I'd suspect the PC has a power issue at the HDMI port. 4k HDR is really finicky with its connections and if you try to push the HDMI 2.1 options sets, you will have issues if there are any problems with the HDMI port. Make sure your PC is configured correctly for what you want and both HDMI chipsets, source and sink, are compatible with the same option sets.

HDMI 2.1 and the related cables is a mess right now. There are no guarantees on what will work with what so it's all trial and error. Early adopters, and especially the gamers, are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1 because video technology will always outpace connection technology.


----------



## id_mew

Thank you for this detailed response.
I guess there's nothing I can do right know another than waited it out a bit until more cables become verified or even certified.


----------



## Balfazar

I've just tried the Ruipro 8k at 10m/33ft, bridging my Asus GTX 3090 TUF and Samsung Q950T. 4k60 worked but as soon as I turned on Input Signal Plus on the Samsung (required for 120hz, VRR or HDR) I lost signal.

Has anyone got a recommendation for another cable I can try at this length?


----------



## Takster

deezwho said:


> 2. Has anyone tested the monoprice 8k cables yet? Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, eARC, AOC, YCbCr 4:4:4, 200ft, Black - Monoprice.com


Failures have been reported at 10 ft, 20 ft and 100 ft, and one questionable success at 75 ft.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Balfazar said:


> I've just tried the Ruipro 8k at 10m/33ft, bridging my Asus GTX 3090 TUF and Samsung Q950T. 4k60 worked but as soon as I turned on Input Signal Plus on the Samsung (required for 120hz, VRR or HDR) I lost signal.
> 
> Has anyone got a recommendation for another cable I can try at this length?


At this point in time, it's still trial and error until the cable mfrs can figure out a way to reproduce a variety of home settings and connected devices, and see if they can tweak their active cable chipsets to work across a variety of consumer devices. However, as soon as the device mfr updates their products, issues could come back. Gamers are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1 .


----------



## 5468467984

Balfazar said:


> I've just tried the Ruipro 8k at 10m/33ft, bridging my Asus GTX 3090 TUF and Samsung Q950T. 4k60 worked but as soon as I turned on Input Signal Plus on the Samsung (required for 120hz, VRR or HDR) I lost signal.
> 
> Has anyone got a recommendation for another cable I can try at this length?


Does Signal Plus require 120Hz frame buffer refresh? If so that could be challenge considering that Samsung (IIRC) can do upto 24Gbps. This means that for Signal Plus, you may have to change your Nvidia settings from RGB to YCbCr and then set it to 4:2:0 to be able to use that feature.

Try that and see if it works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Does Signal Plus require 120Hz frame buffer refresh? If so that could be challenge considering that Samsung (IIRC) can do upto 24Gbps. This means that for Signal Plus, you may have to change your Nvidia settings from RGB to YCbCr and then set it to 4:2:0 to be able to use that feature.
> 
> Try that and see if it works.


Good point. It may take some experimenting with the settings on the new GPU's to see what works best with a given cable.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Good point. It may take some experimenting with the settings on the new GPU's to see what works best with a given cable.


Yep, it is bit of shame that Samsung is adding low bandwidth ports and calling them HDMI 2.1, which is bit misleading in my opinion, even though they are technically correct. 24Gbps is barely an upgrade from 18Gbps HDMI2.0 ports.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Yep, it is bit of shame that Samsung is adding low bandwidth ports and calling them HDMI 2.1, which is bit misleading in my opinion, even though they are technically correct. 24Gbps is barely an upgrade from 18Gbps HDMI2.0 ports.


That's not surprising. HDMI 2.1 is the big buzzword now (read: getting a jump on the holiday season sales) and lots of folks, except for the ones here, haven't a clue as to what "HDMI 2.1" means so mfrs like Samsung, Sony, etc can add features that are part of the HDMI 2.1 option sets that work on the HDMI 2.0 chipset (modified) and claim HDMI 2.1 or HDMI 2.1 compatibility.


----------



## alebonau

Soul_ said:


> Yep, it is bit of shame that Samsung is adding low bandwidth ports and calling them HDMI 2.1, which is bit misleading in my opinion, even though they are technically correct. 24Gbps is barely an upgrade from 18Gbps HDMI2.0 ports


that’s the problem since it’s a feature set. Add one feature and can call it hdmi 2.1 ! Creates a mine field for the consumer and likely only down track realise can’t do what need !


----------



## avernar

alebonau said:


> that’s the problem since it’s a feature set. Add one feature and can call it hdmi 2.1 ! Creates a mine field for the consumer and likely only down track realise can’t do what need !


But they can't call it just "HDMI 2.1". If for example they just add ALLM then the must say something like "Supports HDMI 2.1 ALLM" in their marketing.

But yes, it will still trip up a lot of sheeple consumers.


----------



## alebonau

avernar said:


> But they can't call it just "HDMI 2.1". If for example they just add ALLM then the must say something like "Supports HDMI 2.1 ALLM" in their marketing.
> 
> But yes, it will still trip up a lot of sheeple consumers.


I dont think there is anything stopping them... certainly doesnt appear to be ...


----------



## avernar

alebonau said:


> I dont think there is anything stopping them... certainly doesnt appear to be ...


From HDMI 2.1 Cable Specs: Higher Resolutions &Refresh Rates - HDMI










So if you do see any product that has just "HDMI 2.1" by itself in its marketing you know that they're unlicensed and should avoid that product.


----------



## alebonau

avernar said:


> So if you do see any product that has just "HDMI 2.1" by itself in its marketing you know that they're unlicensed and should avoid that product.


its being used day in day out by any number of cable makers and has been for a while ... even though hasn't relevance to cable spec and the cable spec is "ultra high speed" so nothing stopping them I dont think... no matter what the hdmi org page says.

after all the page also says certification for ultra high speed cables is mandatory... lets see one mandatory certified ultra high speed cable... am yet to see ONE  

so phooey to what ever they say it seems... sad but true...

the average consumer has no idea the devil is in the detail anyways they see hdmi 2.1 and theyre off


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> From HDMI 2.1 Cable Specs: Higher Resolutions &Refresh Rates - HDMI
> 
> View attachment 3045536
> 
> 
> So if you do see any product that has just "HDMI 2.1" by itself in its marketing you know that they're unlicensed and should avoid that product.


Which is what I've been saying for a very long time now. They need, or are supposed to, list which HDMI 2.1 options are available if they claim HDMI 2.1. However, HDMI.org is a licensing agency, not a regulatory agency so there is really very little they can do stop the marketeers from slick and misleading advertisement and product descriptions.

HDMI.org's marketing and labeling instructions are very clear, even for HDMI.org, but......


----------



## avernar

alebonau said:


> its being used day in day out by any number of cable makers and has been for a while ... even though hasn't relevance to cable spec and the cable spec is "ultra high speed" so nothing stopping them I dont think... no matter what the hdmi org page says.
> 
> after all the page also says certification for ultra high speed cables is mandatory... lets see one mandatory certified ultra high speed cable... am yet to see ONE
> 
> so phooey to what ever they say it seems... sad but true...
> 
> the average consumer has no idea the devil is in the detail anyways they see hdmi 2.1 and theyre off


Most of those are resellers who don't give a crap or are selling cheap cables they got in bulk from China. Anything to make a buck. The licensed manufacturers themselves are pretty good at following the rules on their own websites.

It's mandatory for the manufacturers who choose to play be the rules. That's why I said it's easy to spot those who are not. Just don't buy any cables labeled "HDMI 2.1".

The average consumer will always buy stuff without researching it first or even asking the friend who knows about this stuff. That's why so many bad companies and resellers are still in business.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Which is what I've been saying for a very long time now. They need, or are supposed to, list which HDMI 2.1 options are available if they claim HDMI 2.1. However, HDMI.org is a licensing agency, not a regulatory agency so there is really very little they can do stop the marketeers from slick and misleading advertisement and product descriptions.


They can stop licensing to that company or sue for breach of contract if any contracts were in play. That's enough to keep the good manufacturers honest. And those are the ones I'm going to buy from.

I noticed on Yamaha's new AVR product pages that they were even using the A/B suffix on the new resolutions. And not a single mention of "HDMI 2.1" .


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> They can stop licensing to that company or sue for breach of contract if any contracts were in play. That's enough to keep the good manufacturers honest. And those are the ones I'm going to buy from.
> 
> I noticed on Yamaha's new AVR product pages that they were even using the A/B suffix on the new resolutions. And not a single mention of "HDMI 2.1" .


I would really like to see HDMI.org do that and maybe they do, and we just don't hear about it. I have a Yamaha AVR but haven't been to the new product page in awhile so I'll have to check that out.


----------



## jugsta

Just read through the thread a bit and had visions of the “sparkles” and handshake issues I had when making the jump from 1080p to 4K HDR with a remote closet setup. Hopefully I can reign myself in and just wait for everything to shake out before buying this time.

It’s just crazy that if you really care about all the bleeding edge features you have to get so lucky with your AVR-TV-Cable combination. And it gets even more difficult when you are going for a custom install. All the while, console manufacturers who tout these features never even discuss how difficult it can be to achieve. Perhaps hyperbole but that’s what it feels like. Bleh.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> Just read through the thread a bit and had visions of the “sparkles” and handshake issues I had when making the jump from 1080p to 4K HDR with a remote closet setup. Hopefully I can reign myself in and just wait for everything to shake out before buying this time.
> 
> It’s just crazy that if you really care about all the bleeding edge features you have to get so lucky with your AVR-TV-Cable combination. And it gets even more difficult when you are going for a custom install. All the while, console manufacturers who tout these features never even discuss how difficult it can be to achieve. Perhaps hyperbole but that’s what it feels like. Bleh.


Yep. Distance is the achilles heel. If you can overcome that by placing your components closer to your display device, cable choosing becomes a bit easier. I agree about the console mfrs and that's what I alluded to in my post above. It's just so much easier for them to blame the cable if something goes wrong, which, in the case of a long run, is usually the reason. But they don't care. They already have your money.


----------



## WhartoX

Just bought, tested and returned this Monoprice Fiber cable. It does not work at 4K120hz, works fine at 4K60hz. Using a RTX 3090 and LG B9.






Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics


Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## alebonau

WhartoX said:


> Just bought, tested and returned this Monoprice Fiber cable. It does not work at 4K120hz, works fine at 4K60hz. Using a RTX 3090 and LG B9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


75 feet !
So much for 8k120 the page claims or the 48gbps

it’s a case of emperors new clothes ...

did you leave a review ? Fact doesn’t work needs to be called out ...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Anything longer than 50' is going to be difficult for any type of cable, regardless of the device. What source material, other than maybe some games, needs those specs? Achieving the full HDMI 2.1 options sets without issues at those lengths is going to be almost impossible with consumer devices, at least for the immediate future.


----------



## zyx79

anyone know if zeskit cable at 10ft working 4k120 hdr?


----------



## Otto Pylot

zyx79 said:


> anyone know if zeskit cable at 10ft working 4k120 hdr?


Some have reported success, others no. Zeskit AOC cables claim HDMI 2.1 capabilities but they are active cables and as such can not be certified, and they do not advertise how their claims are made and with what equipment. All you can do is try and pay attention to the return policies. There are no 100% guarantees because quite often it depends on the connected devices and not necessarily the cable for a successful connection.


----------



## christofin

WhartoX said:


> Just bought, tested and returned this Monoprice Fiber cable. It does not work at 4K120hz, works fine at 4K60hz. Using a RTX 3090 and LG B9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Monoprice Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - 75 Feet - Black, [email protected], Dynamic HDR, 48Gbps, Fiber Optic, Earc, AOC, Ycbcr 4: - Slimrun AV Series (138630): Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Damn, I have this one coming in the mail next week. I thought Monoprice was supposed to be reliable. I'm getting sick of seeing 48gbps cables with misleading or false marketing. Back to the drawing board I suppose.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Damn, I have this one coming in the mail next week. I thought Monoprice was supposed to be reliable. I'm getting sick of seeing 48gbps cables with misleading or false marketing. Back to the drawing board I suppose.


Why do you need 48Gbps bandwidth?


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Why do you need 48Gbps bandwidth?


For my Ampere GPU. I guess a 40Gbps cable would be fine, I just want 4K/120hz/444 or RGB/10bit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> For my Ampere GPU. I guess a 40Gbps cable would be fine, I just want 4K/120hz/444 or RGB/10bit.


You need to realize that very few cable mfrs have actually had the budget or time to test their cables against the newest GPUs that have just hit the market. They can only base their claims on in-house testing, and not all of them use the latest equipment nor is there really any agreement on tolerances (pass/fail) so while their cables may "pass" some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, that does not translate across the board for all cable mfrs. Then you have the device mfrs (Nvidia for example) that may incorporate other options or protocols into their chipsets that while the HDMI 2.1 option sets are followed, the modifications may result in issues. Adding to that is the fact that any active cable is going to have issues with bandwidth vs distance, which is something that a lot of cable mfrs have been struggling with. Once the Ultra High Speed HDMI cables hit the market, which are passive cables certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, there should be less issues. However, the maximum certifiable length for those cables will be 9' and possibly 15'. Similar to the maximum certifiable length of 25' for the Premium High Speed HDMI cables.

The device mfrs don't care. Any issues with their product and they will blame the cable mfrs, and to a certain extent they will be correct. It's just that video technology always outpaces connection technology and neither industry wants to work closely with each other because they would rather sell a product to the consumer and let the consumer figure out what's wrong. As I have been saying all along, gamers and early adopters are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1. Trial and error because there are no guarantees regardless of slick marketing or carefully worded claims.


----------



## provenflipper

Otto Pylot said:


> You need to realize that very few cable mfrs have actually had the budget or time to test their cables against the newest GPUs that have just hit the market. They can only base their claims on in-house testing, and not all of them use the latest equipment nor is there really any agreement on tolerances (pass/fail) so while their cables may "pass" some or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, that does not translate across the board for all cable mfrs. Then you have the device mfrs (Nvidia for example) that may incorporate other options or protocols into their chipsets that while the HDMI 2.1 option sets are followed, the modifications may result in issues. Adding to that is the fact that any active cable is going to have issues with bandwidth vs distance, which is something that a lot of cable mfrs have been struggling with. Once the Ultra High Speed HDMI cables hit the market, which are passive cables certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, there should be less issues. However, the maximum certifiable length for those cables will be 9' and possibly 15'. Similar to the maximum certifiable length of 25' for the Premium High Speed HDMI cables.
> 
> The device mfrs don't care. Any issues with their product and they will blame the cable mfrs, and to a certain extent they will be correct. It's just that video technology always outpaces connection technology and neither industry wants to work closely with each other because they would rather sell a product to the consumer and let the consumer figure out what's wrong. As I have been saying all along, gamers and early adopters are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1. Trial and error because there are no guarantees regardless of slick marketing or carefully worded claims.


Hats off to you man. 

I see you come in this thread and essentially type the same message every day to answer someone’s question/concern and not once have I seen you be rude or tell someone to search. 

The board needs more people like you.


----------



## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> Hats off to you man.
> 
> I see you come in this thread and essentially type the same message every day to answer someone’s question/concern and not once have I seen you be rude or tell someone to search.
> 
> The board needs more people like you.


Thanks. I know folks get tired of hearing the same 'ol postings from me but the questions are essentially the same. There are always lurkers and newbies so the message is essentially for them as well because they may haven't been around long enough to read my postings. I am always learning something new, and being corrected as well, so I try to impart the latest little tid-bit that I've learned.


----------



## Agent6er

How funny, less than a month until millions of supposed 4K120 devices with VRR and eARC are in the hands of consumers, all reliant on HDMI 2.1 specification, and there are no certified UHS cables available, anywhere.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> How funny, less than a month until millions of supposed 4K120 devices with VRR and eARC are in the hands of consumers, all reliant on HDMI 2.1 specification, and there are no certified UHS cables available, anywhere.


aARC and VRR are possible with the current HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr chose to make that update possible. Zeskit offers passive, UHS HDMI cables up to 16'. They claim the connectors are ATC certified and as such can use the term Ultra High Speed HDMI, and they do list the HDMI 2.1 options sets that are available. However, it all depends on how the source and sink HDMI chipsets implement the HDMI 2.1 options sets. The cable is just the data pipe.

I've already given a reason for why there are HDMI 2.1 devices coming to market now and why the necessary cables aren't ready for prime time.


----------



## Agent6er

Otto Pylot said:


> aARC and VRR are possible with the current HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr chose to make that update possible. Zeskit offers passive, UHS HDMI cables up to 16'. They claim the connectors are ATC certified and as such can use the term Ultra High Speed HDMI, and they do list the HDMI 2.1 options sets that are available. However, it all depends on how the source and sink HDMI chipsets implement the HDMI 2.1 options sets. The cable is just the data pipe.
> 
> I've already given a reason for why there are HDMI 2.1 devices coming to market now and why the necessary cables aren't ready for prime time.


But can they Prove it? No QR code on the package, so the consumer can't scan to prove it is certified, which is mandatory according to HDMI.






Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps


Looking for a high speed HDMI cable? ✓ Click here to learn about high speed vs ultra high speed HDMI cable specifications & certification program compliance! HDMI 2.1a




www.hdmi.org





Direct quote, emphasis added
"The Ultra High Speed HDMI Certification Program is a *mandatory* certification program for *all* Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables"

All certified cables of any length must pass certification testing at an HDMI Forum Authorized Testing Center (Forum ATC). Once certified, cables *will be required to affix an Ultra High Speed HDMI Certification Label *to each package or unit of sale enabling consumers to verify the certification status of the product


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> But can they Prove it? No QR code on the package, so the consumer can't scan to prove it is certified, which is mandatory according to HDMI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps
> 
> 
> Looking for a high speed HDMI cable? ✓ Click here to learn about high speed vs ultra high speed HDMI cable specifications & certification program compliance! HDMI 2.1a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hdmi.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Direct quote, emphasis added
> "The Ultra High Speed HDMI Certification Program is a *mandatory* certification program for *all* Ultra High Speed HDMI Cables"
> 
> All certified cables of any length must pass certification testing at an HDMI Forum Authorized Testing Center (Forum ATC). Once certified, cables *will be required to affix an Ultra High Speed HDMI Certification Label *to each package or unit of sale enabling consumers to verify the certification status of the product


No, they can't. That's why I said "they claim the connectors are ATC certified" (I probably should have underlined "claim" for emphasis). They do work for some but I haven't seen anyone challenge Zeskit yet on their "certified" cable by asking about the UHS HDMI QR label. The cables also don't come with the Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable stamped on the body. The gray area is the connectors. If the connectors are certified by an ATC does that "certification" apply to the cable in-between? It's something I've been meaning to look into but without not having purchased a cable Zeskit probably won't give me the time of day.

Finding information on Zeskit has proven to be a bit difficult which always makes me a bit suspicious.

EDIT: I've just sent an email to Zeskit Support asking about certification so we'll see what they have to say.


----------



## Otto Pylot

As a followup to my post above, I talked to Zeskit. They told me that the connectors are ATC tested, which is part of the HDMI 2.1 requirements but they won't get the QR labels until mid-November. Testing the connectors is no secret and indeed is part of the CTS requirments. A lot of companies are in the process of doing that. Testing the entire cable product is another question and one that I asked them so we'll see what they say. They kept driving the point that they are the first in the world to offer UHS cables. I told them that their marketing was a bit questionable in that it implied that they are UHS certified already (as an entire product). They didn't have a response for that. I have no problem if in fact the entire product is tested and certified as UHS, and they make it clear that the entire product is tested and at which lengths up to the 16' that they offer. 

If it were me I wouldn't purchase the cables until they come with the QR label of authenticity for Ultra High Speed HDMI.


----------



## jugsta

Well it nice to know that they are at least aware of UHS certification. That sort of sounds like they are prepared to have them certified at the first opportunity... Or am I missing something? Otto- your gonna laugh when you see how I'm gonna get 4k/120hz to my living room tv. I'll share once I have time to properly explain it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jugsta said:


> Well it nice to know that they are at least aware of UHS certification. That sort of sounds like they are prepared to have them certified at the first opportunity... Or am I missing something? Otto- your gonna laugh when you see how I'm gonna get 4k/120hz to my living room tv. I'll share once I have time to properly explain it.


I really do hope that the Zeskit cable comes thru because that will give the folks who have short runs (up to 15') some HDMI 2.1 relief. However, the long run folks are just gonna have to struggle until the active cables, like Ruipro's, get tweaked to hopefully get around some of the issues with the new GPUs and distance. That's not to say that the Ruipro cables don't work, they do in a lot instances, but even an 8% "failure" rate (as reported back to Ruipro) is too high for them.

Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing about your setup, especially if your run is over 15' .


----------



## talldrink67

Otto Pylot said:


> I really do hope that the Zeskit cable comes thru because that will give the folks who have short runs (up to 15') some HDMI 2.1 relief. However, the long run folks are just gonna have to struggle until the active cables, like Ruipro's, get tweaked to hopefully get around some of the issues with the new GPUs and distance. That's not to say that the Ruipro cables don't work, they do in a lot instances, but even an 8% "failure" rate (as reported back to Ruipro) is too high for them.
> 
> Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing about your setup, especially if your run is over 15' .


I just ordered Rupiro 10ft cables yesterday in preparation for the new consoles and my LG CX. I hope i didnt make the wrong choice as I was debating between them and Zeskit... I suppose I could buy a single Zeskit for testing purposes


----------



## HomieTheClown

I read through quite a few pages of this thread and was disappointed to see that many of the cables don't seem to work over long distances. I'm looking to connect a A/V receiver to a tv 40 feet or so feet away.I saw the RuiPro and Monoprice versions don't seem to work over long distances like 50 feet. I did find this Bifale one in Amazon. I checked out the reviews but was wondering if anyone here has had actual success. I rather trust people from this forum than those crazy Amazoners. Here's the link below.

Bifale Cable

It claims to be 2.1 and eArc and everything else that people are looking for but I'm curious if anyone's tried it out.


----------



## bcabes

HomieTheClown said:


> I read through quite a few pages of this thread and was disappointed to see that many of the cables don't seem to work over long distances. I'm looking to connect a A/V receiver to a tv 40 feet or so feet away.I saw the RuiPro and Monoprice versions don't seem to work over long distances like 50 feet. I did find this Bifale one in Amazon. I checked out the reviews but was wondering if anyone here has had actual success. I rather trust people from this forum than those crazy Amazoners. Here's the link below.
> 
> Bifale Cable
> 
> It claims to be 2.1 and eArc and everything else that people are looking for but I'm curious if anyone's tried it out.


If you can wait I suggest waiting. I am not aware of any active cable that is working at greater than 18 gpbs. There are a lot of random Amazon brands and claims but so far each one has been a failure.

I purchased a RuiPro 40ft cable and while it did not work they are working on a replacement. I read somewhere on AVS that there is a new version that is coming out, but I can't find it now.

Edit: Found the discussion:








Known Working HDMI 2.1 Cables Tested with LG CX-GX &amp...


Was Blue Jeans Cable tested? I thought someone mentioned they pass full 40-48gpbs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> I read through quite a few pages of this thread and was disappointed to see that many of the cables don't seem to work over long distances. I'm looking to connect a A/V receiver to a tv 40 feet or so feet away.I saw the RuiPro and Monoprice versions don't seem to work over long distances like 50 feet. I did find this Bifale one in Amazon. I checked out the reviews but was wondering if anyone here has had actual success. I rather trust people from this forum than those crazy Amazoners. Here's the link below.
> 
> Bifale Cable
> 
> It claims to be 2.1 and eArc and everything else that people are looking for but I'm curious if anyone's tried it out.


The Bifale cables have been mentioned before. They are just a copy of a better made, highly QC'd cable. They state in their product description, "_Our fiber HDMI2.1 Cable_", which goes against what HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago not to do, and that is to use the HDMI protocol version in their cable description. That brings up all kinds of red flags. If the cable works that's fine. But reliability (longevity) will probably become an issue.

As to the long distances, that is always going to be an issue with active cables and the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The reason is compatibility between the active components in the connector ends and the HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the source/sink end. The only truly reliable cables, at this point in time, that will be able to handle the HDMI 2.1 option sets will be the certified (Ultra High Speed HDMI), passive cables with the QR label. However, they will only be available in lengths up to 9' and maybe 15'.


----------



## christofin

HomieTheClown said:


> I read through quite a few pages of this thread and was disappointed to see that many of the cables don't seem to work over long distances. I'm looking to connect a A/V receiver to a tv 40 feet or so feet away.I saw the RuiPro and Monoprice versions don't seem to work over long distances like 50 feet. I did find this Bifale one in Amazon. I checked out the reviews but was wondering if anyone here has had actual success. I rather trust people from this forum than those crazy Amazoners. Here's the link below.
> 
> Bifale Cable
> 
> It claims to be 2.1 and eArc and everything else that people are looking for but I'm curious if anyone's tried it out.


The Bifale one did not work for me. I'm also looking for a 40ft or higher solution.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> The Bifale one did not work for me. I'm also looking for a 40ft or higher solution.


Good luck. 

@bcabes The new Ruipro 8k cable is out but they have just taken possession of the new 3080 and 3090 GPUs so they are beginnig to test their cables against them. They've only seen about an 8% "failure" rate reported by customers but 8% is still too high for Ruipro. That being said, 15m is going to be difficult for any active cables.


----------



## bcabes

Otto Pylot said:


> @bcabes The new Ruipro 8k cable is out but they have just taken possession of the new 3080 and 3090 GPUs so they are beginnig to test their cables against them. They've only seen about an 8% "failure" rate reported by customers but 8% is still too high for Ruipro. That being said, 15m is going to be difficult for any active cables.


Thanks, I really only need about 25ft but bought a 40ft cable because it was about the same price on Amazon. Do you have any comments on the difference in fiber performance at different lengths. At this point I have been assuming that because it is fiber the chipset is the big issue, but I don't know for sure.

I have been following both this and the LG HDMI forum, and so far I have been impressed by the customer service at Ruipro. If anyone needs an active cable it seems like eventually they will have a solution.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bcabes said:


> Thanks, I really only need about 25ft but bought a 40ft cable because it was about the same price on Amazon. Do you have any comments on the difference in fiber performance at different lengths. At this point I have been assuming that because it is fiber the chipset is the big issue, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> I have been following both this and the LG HDMI forum, and so far I have been impressed by the customer service at Ruipro. If anyone needs an active cable it seems like eventually they will have a solution.


10m - 15m appeared to be the length where hybrid fiber cables began to have issues with options like eARC. Since then I think the cable designs have been improved upon a bit as well as the chipsets in the connector ends. I would not recommend a hybrid fiber for lengths under 25' because of cost. That being said, I have tested the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables at lengths much shorter and they worked just fine for the HDMI 2.0 options.

Going forward, I think hybrid fiber cables are really going to be what works for HDMI 2.1 because of the limitations of copper-only and length. Copper can handle the requirements of HDMI 2.1 to a point but the cables would have such a thick wire gauge beyond 15' that it would make them impractical to use.

You are correct in that the connector end chipsets are where the issue is. But it's not necessarily the cable that's the problem. As I have mentioned before, the device mfrs must follow the HDMI 2.1 guidelines as far as compliance goes but they are free to add other modifications to their chipsets which may not play nice with the active cables. So companies like Ruipro need to test their cables against the new devices, which is what Ruipro is doing now with the new Nvidia GPUs, and tweak as necessary. Of course there's no guarantee that if the GPUs receive an update later on, that that won't have an adverse affect on the active cables.


----------



## G-Rex

AudioQuest‘s hdmi 2.1 cables coming soon.






HDMI 8K-10K · Digital Cables · Cables


AudioQuest cables and other audio products combine solid conductors, high-purity metals, specialized geometries, and stable dielectrics to enable naturally beautiful sounds and images.




www.audioquest.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> AudioQuest‘s hdmi 2.1 cables coming soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI 8K-10K · Digital Cables · Cables
> 
> 
> AudioQuest cables and other audio products combine solid conductors, high-purity metals, specialized geometries, and stable dielectrics to enable naturally beautiful sounds and images.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.audioquest.com


I wouldn't believe anything that AudioQuest has to say. Carefully read the specs. 48Gbps on a passive cable up to 15'. Anything longer than that is an active cable for 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0). No mention of ATC certification but a lot of really cool sounding features (1.25% silver plated copper, direction-controlled noise dissipation, ).

Unless the cable is labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI (exact wording) and comes with the QR label, it's all marketing b.s..


----------



## G-Rex

I did notice that the specs on 2 of their long run 2.1 cables drops to 18 gbps. I would go with the WW hybrid optical for long runs. I wonder how AQ’s passive cables at 3 or 4 meters and under will do in passing a 48 gbps signal (4k 120 VRR)? We shall know soon enough, I assume. At least AQ has a very broad range of pricing for the 2.1 cables.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> I wouldn't believe anything that AudioQuest has to say. Carefully read the specs. 48Gbps on a passive cable up to 15'. Anything longer than that is an active cable for 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0). No mention of ATC certification but a lot of really cool sounding features (1.25% silver plated copper, direction-controlled noise dissipation, ).
> 
> Unless the cable is labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI (exact wording) and comes with the QR label, it's all marketing b.s..


Otto, do you know if the the Belkin hdmi 2.1 cable was ever tested, and if so, did it pass?








Ultra HD High Speed HDMI Cable | Belkin
 

This ultra HD high-speed HDMI cable supports high resolutions, refresh rates, & most immersive viewing experience available including Dolby Vision. Shop now.




www.belkin.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Otto, do you know if the the Belkin hdmi 2.1 cable was ever tested, and if so, did it pass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra HD High Speed HDMI Cable | Belkin
> 
> 
> This ultra HD high-speed HDMI cable supports high resolutions, refresh rates, & most immersive viewing experience available including Dolby Vision. Shop now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.belkin.com


The Belkin cable has always been sketchy. The cable is labeled as "Ultra HD High Speed HDMI", not Ultra High Speed HDMI, which is the trademarked name for cables certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They carefully change the name to confuse the consumer. They claim it supports Dolby Vision and HDR10, which is two of the formats for HDR. Most well made High Speed HDMI cables also support those formats. No mention of the other HDMI 2.1 option sets that are required by HDMI.org if the cable is to marketed as a UHS HDMI cable. The cable is passive and at 6', it should work just fine for the HDMI 2.0 options. Belkin makes good cables but this marketing smoke and mirrors is really beneath them.

Again, if the cable is certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, it will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI, be passive with the QR label of authenticity, and have a maximum length of 9', maybe 15'. I think the cable body as well can be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI as well but that may be optional. No active cable of any kind will be certifiable for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They may be tested in-house and pass what ever the cable mfr's pass/fail criteria is but they won't be tested by an ATC for certification. And, any length above 30' may have issues with some devices and options.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> The Belkin cable has always been sketchy. The cable is labeled as "Ultra HD High Speed HDMI", not Ultra High Speed HDMI, which is the trademarked name for cables certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They carefully change the name to confuse the consumer. They claim it supports Dolby Vision and HDR10, which is two of the formats for HDR. Most well made High Speed HDMI cables also support those formats. No mention of the other HDMI 2.1 option sets that are required by HDMI.org if the cable is to marketed as a UHS HDMI cable. The cable is passive and at 6', it should work just fine for the HDMI 2.0 options. Belkin makes good cables but this marketing smoke and mirrors is really beneath them.
> 
> Again, if the cable is certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, it will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI, be passive with the QR label of authenticity, and have a maximum length of 9', maybe 15'. I think the cable body as well can be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI as well but that may be optional. No active cable of any kind will be certifiable for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They may be tested in-house and pass what ever the cable mfr's pass/fail criteria is but they won't be tested by an ATC for certification. And, any length above 30' may have issues with some devices and options.


Yes, I am aware that their DV and HDR10 claim is hollow as far as the 2.1 spec goes. This is already within the 2.0 spec. When reading the Q & A, Belkin adamantly and repeatedly states (as recent as 5 months ago) s that their 2.1 cable will pass 48 gbps, 4k 120 and 8k 60. It will be interesting to see, when the Xbox Series X comes out, if the Belkin does in deed pass 4k 120 hz VRR. Of course those with a PC, a proper monitor and a 3070, 3080, or 3090 can also test the Belkin cable’s bandwidth.


----------



## Ellebob

I don't know if these companies have been mentioned but both make good products. They are pricey but work and they stand behind their products. Both companies mostly sell to dealer though. It looks like AVPro will sell to consumers.



48 Gbps HDMI Cables (Active)








Velox Optical Fiber HDMI® Cables - HDMI Cables - MHTG


Metra Home Theater Group is the leading manufacturer of professional grade home audio, home video and home security surveillance solutions by tops brands like Ethereal, Helios and Spyclops




metrahometheater.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Yes, I am aware that their DV and HDR10 claim is hollow as far as the 2.1 spec goes. This is already within the 2.0 spec. When reading the Q & A, Belkin adamantly and repeatedly states (as recent as 5 months ago) s that their 2.1 cable will pass 48 gbps, 4k 120 and 8k 60. It will be interesting to see, when the Xbox Series X comes out, if the Belkin does in deed pass 4k 120 hz VRR. Of course those with a PC, a proper monitor and a 3070, 3080, or 3090 can also test the Belkin cable’s bandwidth.


Yes. Time will tell. I really do like Belkin products but their cable claims have just not set well with me. They started marketing a cable almost 2 years ago that was supposed to be compatible with the HDMI 2.1 options (and Apple sold it as well if I remember correctly) before the final HDMI 2.1 option sets were even ratified. If you can keep your cable length under 15' without sharp bends or stress on the HDMI ports the cable may just work.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes. Time will tell. I really do like Belkin products but their cable claims have just not set well with me. They started marketing a cable almost 2 years ago that was supposed to be compatible with the HDMI 2.1 options (and Apple sold it as well if I remember correctly) before the final HDMI 2.1 option sets were even ratified. If you can keep your cable length under 15' without sharp bends or stress on the HDMI ports the cable may just work.


I own 2 of the Belkin 2.1 cables and use them for my Apple 4kTV and Nvidia Shield Pro. Seems like a nice cable. I never had any issues with them, but have not really tested their high bandwidth claim. My brother, once he gets the Series X, will try the Belkin on his Sony 900H at 4k 120 VRR. Should be interesting.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> I don't know if these companies have been mentioned but both make good products. They are pricey but work and they stand behind their products. Both companies mostly sell to dealer though. It looks like AVPro will sell to consumers.
> 
> 
> 
> 48 Gbps HDMI Cables (Active)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Velox Optical Fiber HDMI® Cables - HDMI Cables - MHTG
> 
> 
> Metra Home Theater Group is the leading manufacturer of professional grade home audio, home video and home security surveillance solutions by tops brands like Ethereal, Helios and Spyclops
> 
> 
> 
> 
> metrahometheater.com


The Velox ad must be an old one because they state that the final CTS specs for HDMI 2.1 have not been released, but they have been for almost a year or so now. The cables apparently come with a voltage inserter (_USB cable for optional external_ _power_) which Ruipro also provides. The reason for that is some sinks have current output that fluctuates just enough so that the active chipsets have issues negotiating properly. This is usually seen with some projectors. I've tested hybrid fiber cables with and without voltage inserters and did not see any difference, but then again I wasn't experiencing any issues to begin with.

Unfortunately, hybrid fiber cables are all active, and HDMI.org does not allow for active cables of any kind to be certified by an ATC so you will be left up to the mfr as to how they validated their product if they claim compatibility with the HDMI 2.1 options sets.

Well made hybrid fiber cables will be expensive from any mfr but AVPro seems to be on the higher end of the scale. That being said, there are no 100% guarantees so it's going to still be trial and error for the HDMI 2.1 options sets over about 35'. If long cable runs are in-wall then the use of a conduit is almost mandatory because swapping out cables will probably be a reality until the HDMI 2.1 device mfrs work more closely with cable mfrs. Video technology will always outpace connection technology and unfortunately the gamers and early adopters are going to be the beta testers for the rest of us.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> I own 2 of the Belkin 2.1 cables and use them for my Apple 4kTV and Nvidia Shield Pro. Seems like a nice cable. I never had any issues with them, but have not really tested their high bandwidth claim. My brother, once he gets the Series X, will try the Belkin on his Sony 900H at 4k 120 VRR. Should be interesting.


Well, if his cable run can be kept to about 10' (9' was the original spec for HDMI 2.1 but I think it's been raised to 15') he shouldn't have any issues.


----------



## G-Rex

A 2m cable is all that is needed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> A 2m cable is all that is needed.


Good to go, at least as far as cable distance.


----------



## bcabes

I received a replacement 8k 12m cable from Ruipro today. It passed the HDMI Diagnostic on my Denon X4700 receiver at 40 Gbps three times in a row. Whatever they changed seems to be working better with this test. If you need to get a fiber cable this one seems to be the best option so far. I have been happy with the customer service at Ruipro.

Crossing my fingers it works just as well with the Xbox Series X come November.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bcabes said:


> I received a replacement 8k 12m cable from Ruipro today. It passed the HDMI Diagnostic on my Denon X4700 receiver at 40 Gbps three times in a row. Whatever they changed seems to be working better with this test. If you need to get a fiber cable this one seems to be the best option so far. I have been happy with the customer service at Ruipro.
> 
> Crossing my fingers it works just as well with the Xbox Series X come November.


Glad that the cable passed the Denon test, and that the Denon was consistent in the results. There have been reports of the lack of accuracy with the Denon cable test. That makes sense given that accurate and reliable bandwidth test equipment costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars and it's doubtful that a mfr would put that kind of investment into a feature that most people won't use and still remain competitive.


----------



## bcabes

Otto Pylot said:


> Glad that the cable passed the Denon test, and that the Denon was consistent in the results. There have been reports of the lack of accuracy with the Denon cable test. That makes sense given that accurate and reliable bandwidth test equipment costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars and it's doubtful that a mfr would put that kind of investment into a feature that most people won't use and still remain competitive.


I agree that it is not likely to be as good as dedicated bandwidth testers, but I do think it is the best if not only consumer level test that there is for HDMI 2.1. I am just trying to get ready for the new video game consoles and having the revised Ruipro test be the only 12m cable I have seen pass it is at least a good sign.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Glad that the cable passed the Denon test, and that the Denon was consistent in the results. There have been reports of the lack of accuracy with the Denon cable test. That makes sense given that accurate and reliable bandwidth test equipment costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars and it's doubtful that a mfr would put that kind of investment into a feature that most people won't use and still remain competitive.


I can only hope gear has cable tests like this. and what atv and xbox one x have now for 18gbps...


----------



## Takster

bcabes said:


> I received a replacement 8k 12m cable from Ruipro today.


Great. Could you please post the details printed on the cable? (like the SNA... code etc). Can you see any differences with the physical cable itself or the packaging compared to the original cable?


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## Otto Pylot

Takster said:


> Great. Could you please post the details printed on the cable? (like the SNA... code etc). Can you see any differences with the physical cable itself or the packaging compared to the original cable?


The product number will probably be the same because 1) that's what is in the Amazon system and it's difficult to update that info and 2) the cable jackets have already been printed. If there is a number change on the jacket it will be the batch control number.

Ruipro doesn't usually inform the customers if they have a "newer" version or not. Their philosophy is that the customer doesn't need to know that information. If the cable works, fine. If not, they will replace it.


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## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> I can only hope gear has cable tests like this. and what atv and xbox one x have now for 18gbps...


Yep. I've used the ATV4k cable test when I was testing the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables and they always passed. It would be nice to have the actual bandwidth given but the accuracy of that "number", like the Denon test, would probably not be accurate, but good enough for a ballpark reading. The ultimate test will be whether the source material plays as expected. Until then, it's just a best guess.


----------



## Cordy

From reading through this and the similar thread it seems that the Ruipro cable seems to be the recommended cable for long runs but may be hit or miss depending on when it was manufactured. I'm currently needing between a 6-10 meter cable for a new install. I saw there was another manufacturer Wireworld that seems to be reputable and just recently released a cable but $500 is a hard pill to swallow for a cable that may or may not work when you finally have every device connected. Audioquest would've been a nice middle ground between known manufacturer and reasonable price if their new cables didn't have that wonderful disclaimer that anything above 5 meters will be active and those are currently limited to 18Gbps. Honestly they shouldn't even show those lengths on the same page as they already have 18Gbps cables at that length. I'd really hate to have to rerun a new cable once this all shakes out but it seems more and more like the best thing may be to wait and see what cables there are by the end of the year. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Bacongineer

I contacted Ruipro directly to confirm with them and here's the response I received : 









I live in Canada, so I looked on Amazon Canada and found that RUIPRO-CA sold that same cable, so I bought it from them and sent a message asking to confirm that the cable I would receive would be compatible with the new NVIDIA Ampere GPUs, here's the response I received :









I'll post an update once I receive the cable to test with my RTX 3080 and my LG C9.


----------



## GrailWarCFB

Cordy said:


> From reading through this and the similar thread it seems that the Ruipro cable seems to be the recommended cable for long runs but may be hit or miss depending on when it was manufactured. I'm currently needing between a 6-10 meter cable for a new install. I saw there was another manufacturer Wireworld that seems to be reputable and just recently released a cable but $500 is a hard pill to swallow for a cable that may or may not work when you finally have every device connected. Audioquest would've been a nice middle ground between known manufacturer and reasonable price if their new cables didn't have that wonderful disclaimer that anything above 5 meters will be active and those are currently limited to 18Gbps. Honestly they shouldn't even show those lengths on the same page as they already have 18Gbps cables at that length. I'd really hate to have to rerun a new cable once this all shakes out but it seems more and more like the best thing may be to wait and see what cables there are by the end of the year.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


When you say “above 5m”, are you saying that AQ cables that are exactly 5m are claimed by AQ to pass 40/48Gbps?


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## Cordy

GrailWarCFB said:


> When you say “above 5m”, are you saying that AQ cables that are exactly 5m are claimed by AQ to pass 40/48Gbps?


That is what they claim yes. You can see that information under available lengths here: Pearl 48 · HDMI 8K-10K · Digital Cables · Cables · AudioQuest

"Available lengths: Passive: 0.75m, 1.5m, 2.25m, 3.0m, 5.0m; Active (18G): 8m, 10m, 12.5m, 15m."

The info is pretty similar across their entire new line of 48Gbps cables. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Postmoderndesign

There is no cable rated for 48 GBPS and there are no 12 bit display panels capable of 48 bits. Forget math. It is all above my pay grade. See if you can write an explanation. Do you need HDMI 2.1-probably not.


----------



## Brettcp

Bacongineer said:


> I contacted Ruipro directly to confirm with them and here's the response I received :
> View attachment 3048611
> 
> 
> I live in Canada, so I looked on Amazon Canada and found that RUIPRO-CA sold that same cable, so I bought it from them and sent a message asking to confirm that the cable I would receive would be compatible with the new NVIDIA Ampere GPUs, here's the response I received :
> View attachment 3048612
> 
> 
> I'll post an update once I receive the cable to test with my RTX 3080 and my LG C9.


I had the same conversation with Thomas at Ruipro, and ordered the 100ft cable from Amazon but from them as the shipper (not Amazon) per their instruction and provided them with my order confirmation. I then received a reply, "Thank you for your trust, please be assured that the cable is verified completely in our factory and it will work well with 3090 at 4K120HZ. Please contact us if anything need us to support."

Should have it next week, will post a follow-up once I receive and test it. I'm using an EVGA 3090 FTW Ultra in my PC, and have a new Sony 85" X900H with the recently released firmware update. My plan is to be able to use my 3090 from my main PC along with my Sony X900H (which is a few rooms away), eliminating the need to buy another RTX 30xx card for the living room. Will be using a CAT6 usb extender as well to achieve the 100ft run (really about 85ft, but wanted to give myself a bit of length to spare) for gamepad/kb/mouse support. Total cost will be just under $300. Hoping it all works out as expected.


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## Otto Pylot

bcabes said:


> I received a replacement 8k 12m cable from Ruipro today. It passed the HDMI Diagnostic on my Denon X4700 receiver at 40 Gbps three times in a row. Whatever they changed seems to be working better with this test. If you need to get a fiber cable this one seems to be the best option so far. I have been happy with the customer service at Ruipro.
> 
> Crossing my fingers it works just as well with the Xbox Series X come November.


Good to know. Ruipro is continuing to "tweak" their cables for some of the new HDMI 2.1 devices that are starting to ship. It's an expensive process for them but worth it to their customer base.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> Will be using a CAT6 usb extender as well to achieve the 100ft run (really about 85ft, but wanted to give myself a bit of length to spare) for gamepad/kb/mouse support. Total cost will be just under $300. Hoping it all works out as expected.


I'm not sure what the USB extender is connected to in relationship to the Ruipro cable but keep in mind with these active cables, the most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between, especially at that length. Do let us know how it works.


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## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm not sure what the USB extender is connected to in relationship to the Ruipro cable but keep in mind with these active cables, the most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between, especially at that length. Do let us know how it works.


No relationship between the Ruipro HDMI cable and the USB extender, just mentioned it as its part of the same project of extending my PC out 100ft. Agreed that a single cable will be the best solution, the Ruipro 100ft HDMI cable will be a single/direct cable run, nothing in between. Only used an HDMI fiber cable once in the past - have a Samsung 48" 60hz 4K TV mounted on the wall on the far side of the room in my home office, needed a 30ft run. Regular 30ft HDMI cable would have intermittent cut outs, just a black screen when I tried to enable HDR, sometimes wouldn't connect at all. Swapped it out with a Cable Matters Fiber HDMI 32ft cable, instantly solved every issue. Impressed with fiber HDMI cables so far! Never thought I'd spend so much on HDMI cables, but here we are.

Certainly will post feedback about the Ruipro 100ft cable once received.


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## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> No relationship between the Ruipro HDMI cable and the USB extender, just mentioned it as its part of the same project of extending my PC out 100ft. Agreed that a single cable will be the best solution, the Ruipro 100ft HDMI cable will be a single/direct cable run, nothing in between. Only used an HDMI fiber cable once in the past - have a Samsung 48" 60hz 4K TV mounted on the wall on the far side of the room in my home office, needed a 30ft run. Regular 30ft HDMI cable would have intermittent cut outs, just a black screen when I tried to enable HDR, sometimes wouldn't connect at all. Swapped it out with a Cable Matters Fiber HDMI 32ft cable, instantly solved every issue. Impressed with fiber HDMI cables so far! Never thought I'd spend so much on HDMI cables, but here we are.
> 
> Certainly will post feedback about the Ruipro 100ft cable once received.


Got it. A 100' active cable is going to be tough but certainly doable depending on how carefully the installation is (no sharp bends, carefully fished thru the conduit, etc). The cable should come with a power inserter so that may or may not be useful. I would install the cable without the power inserter first to see how it goes. If you don't need it, don't use, but keep it handy just in case.


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## djnb

I received a new 15m RuiPro cable today directly from China - I ordered via the Amazon link last week and told them it needed to work with the 3080 hence why they must have sent from China stock.

But alas, it does not work at 4k 120hz!! Mostly "No Signal" on my C9, occasional flicker. My 2m (copper) cable works absolutely fine. So definitely the cable. Very frustrating, now I'm going to have to try and return it.


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## Takster

djnb said:


> I received a new 15m RuiPro cable today directly from China - I ordered via the Amazon link last week and told them it needed to work with the 3080 hence why they must have sent from China stock.


Can you please share the details on the cable - any markings or part codes (SNA...) on the white sleeve or box? Was there a postmark on the package showing that it came directly from China?


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## Otto Pylot

djnb said:


> I received a new 15m RuiPro cable today directly from China - I ordered via the Amazon link last week and told them it needed to work with the 3080 hence why they must have sent from China stock.
> 
> But alas, it does not work at 4k 120hz!! Mostly "No Signal" on my C9, occasional flicker. My 2m (copper) cable works absolutely fine. So definitely the cable. Very frustrating, now I'm going to have to try and return it.


It's not surprising that the 6' cable worked but you had issues at 45'. Ruipro is still working with the 3080s and 3090s so there are still going to be issues with some of those devices. At 15m (45') how is your cable installed? Did you lay the cable out of the floor first and test it before installation or is it already on the floor (along the baseboards, whatever).


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## djnb

Takster said:


> Can you please share the details on the cable - any markings or part codes (SNA...) on the white sleeve or box? Was there a postmark on the package showing that it came directly from China?












Yes, directly from China - had been monitoring its route via FedEx tracking.


Otto Pylot said:


> It's not surprising that the 6' cable worked but you had issues at 45'. Ruipro is still working with the 3080s and 3090s so there are still going to be issues with some of those devices. At 15m (45') how is your cable installed? Did you lay the cable out of the floor first and test it before installation or is it already on the floor (along the baseboards, whatever).


Yes, tested it with cable on floor.


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## avernar

Postmoderndesign said:


> There is no cable rated for 48 GBPS and there are no 12 bit display panels capable of 48 bits. Forget math. It is all above my pay grade. See if you can write an explanation. Do you need HDMI 2.1-probably not.


Unofficially there are 48Gbps cables. Officially certified ones will be available soon.

Did you not watch the second video? He says even 10 bit displays can benefit from a 12 bit signal due to all the processing and conversions the TV does. Even if you do just use 4K 120Hz 10 bit, the extra 8Gbps left over can be used to reduce lag if QFT (Quick Frame Transport) is available.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Unofficially there are 48Gbps cables. Officially certified ones will be available soon.
> 
> Did you not watch the second video? He says even 10 bit displays can benefit from a 12 bit signal due to all the processing and conversions the TV does. Even if you do just use 4K 120Hz 10 bit, the extra 8Gbps left over can be used to reduce lag if QFT (Quick Frame Transport) is available.


Certified cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets are available now from Zeskit. They are just waiting for the QR labels from HDMI LA (Licensing and Administration) to affix to the packaging. Sometime around mid to late November is when they should get the labels. There will be no differences in those cables with the ones they are currently selling other than a different product code to be reflected on the QR labels.


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## Balfazar

RuiPro sent me a replacement 10m cable today but no improvement - still gives no signal as soon as I turn on Input Signal Plus on my Samsung Q950T, connecting to my Asus 3090 TUF. Somebody asked previously about the Samsung HDMI bandwidth, I'm using HDMI4 which is meant to be HDMI2.1. I can't change colour settings as I can't enable the display in Nvidia control panel with Input Signal Plus turned on.

You can tell the replacement RuiPro cables from the old as the Display/Source labelling on the connectors is red/green text while on the original it was black.

Using the power connector makes no difference also. Is RuiPro going to release another cable version based on their testing with the 3090?


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## Otto Pylot

[QUOTE="Balfazar, post: 60187312, member: 9513568

Using the power connector makes no difference also. Is RuiPro going to release another cable version based on their testing with the 3090?
[/QUOTE]

Not that I am aware of. Does the cable work if Input Signal Plus is not enabled? Could be an issue with the Samsung as I am not familiar with Input Signal Plus.

HDMI 2.1 is still in its infancy stages so there are going to be ongoing issues with the device mfrs: display devices/cables/GPUs so it's still going to take sometime to get all the details worked out.


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## shaulch

djnb said:


> View attachment 3048767
> 
> 
> Yes, directly from China - had been monitoring its route via FedEx tracking.
> 
> Yes, tested it with cable on floor.


According to  https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ruipro-hdmi-cable-versions-and-part-numbers.3167405/ , it is not the new cable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Balfazar

Otto Pylot said:


> Does the cable work if Input Signal Plus is not enabled? Could be an issue with the Samsung as I am not familiar with Input Signal Plus.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 is still in its infancy stages so there are going to be ongoing issues with the device mfrs: display devices/cables/GPUs so it's still going to take sometime to get all the details worked out.


It does work without input signal plus, but in that case I am limited to 60hz and no HDR or VRR. Hopefully someone can post whether they have had a 10m+ RuiPro work with a 3090 and in that case I'll start looking at my TV.


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## Balfazar

So I hauled my PC over to the TV to try my 2m Belkin 'Ultra HD High Speed HDMI cable', discussed in this thread as offering questionable HDMI 2.1 support. I got a signal with Input Signal Plus on unlike the RuiPro and was able to turn HDR on along with 4k120, but I wasn't able to enable VRR and the colours looked strange at the higher resolutions so I'm not confident this cable supports the full HDMI 2.1 feature set or 48gbps.


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## djnb

Balfazar said:


> RuiPro sent me a replacement 10m cable today but no improvement - still gives no signal as soon as I turn on Input Signal Plus on my Samsung Q950T, connecting to my Asus 3090 TUF. Somebody asked previously about the Samsung HDMI bandwidth, I'm using HDMI4 which is meant to be HDMI2.1. I can't change colour settings as I can't enable the display in Nvidia control panel with Input Signal Plus turned on.
> 
> You can tell the replacement RuiPro cables from the old as the Display/Source labelling on the connectors is red/green text while on the original it was black.
> 
> Using the power connector makes no difference also. Is RuiPro going to release another cable version based on their testing with the 3090?


As I mentioned on the last page, I also received a new RuiPro (15m) cable directly from China (with the red writing on the connectors) - and it doesn't work at 4k/120 with my RTX 3080 going to a C9. Just a blank screen of "No Signal" with occasional flashes. My 2m copper cable (Belkin) works fine as a reference.

So it's not just you 

To be fair, their customer service has been fantastic - they have agreed to refund without me needing to return (I assume because I had specifically asked for 3080 compatibility before ordering), and had offered to send me another to try. So can't complain too much, even though I'm very disappointed.


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## Takster

djnb said:


> Yes, directly from China - had been monitoring its route via FedEx tracking.


Thanks for taking the photo - I have updated the list here


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## djnb

Takster said:


> Thanks for taking the photo - I have updated the list here


No worries at all. So desperately awaiting the news of a 10-15m cable that actually works. I really want that 4k/120hz gaming goodness but need that length of cable because of how I have my PC hidden away etc.


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## Takster

I hear you. Given what we've seen so far, I think it will be a while. The release of the new consoles next month should hopefully bring more attention to this issue.


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## Otto Pylot

Balfazar said:


> So I hauled my PC over to the TV to try my 2m Belkin 'Ultra HD High Speed HDMI cable', discussed in this thread as offering questionable HDMI 2.1 support. I got a signal with Input Signal Plus on unlike the RuiPro and was able to turn HDR on along with 4k120, but I wasn't able to enable VRR and the colours looked strange at the higher resolutions so I'm not confident this cable supports the full HDMI 2.1 feature set or 48gbps.


There could still be some issues with the 3080s and 3090s that's not entirely Ruipro's fault. Tweaking their cables to work with one particular GPU may eventually work but who's to say that the consoles won't have issues as well with their proprietary chipsets and inmplementation of HDMI 2.1 ? It's not surprising that you had some success with the 6' cable because that's well within the HDMI 2.1 cable length distance. That being said, you still had issues with VRR so it could still be an issue with the GPU or the tv's implementation of HDMI 2.1. The other difference between the two cables, and a big difference it is besides cable length, is one is passive and the other is active. Getting two different proprietary chipsets to flawlessly transfer data to each other over a distance is very difficult, obviously. When all is said and done, passive cables may be the answer for the most reliable connections. This is a prime example of why HDMI.org and HDMI LA doesn't allow for certification of active cables.

If you want to try another passive cables that is certified as Ultra High Speed HDMI you might want to look into Zeskit.


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## G-Rex

By the way, the AudioQuest HDMI cables that are 5m and below are officially Ultra HD High Speed certified, and such stickers will be added to the packaging shortly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> By the way, the AudioQuest HDMI cables that are 5m and below are officially Ultra HD High Speed certified, and such stickers will be added to the packaging shortly.


Yep. That's another one that is awaiting the QR labels from HDMI LA. Fortunately the cable mfrs have been able to push the max length from the original 3m to 5m, with HDMI.org and HDMI LA's approval. However, they are AudioQuest cables so expect over-the-top marketing and high prices. Unfortunately, the folks who need long run cables are going to be stuck with active hybrid fiber cables and there are issues at present as you know.


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## G-Rex

Yes, I know re the Ruipro hybrids. I would imagine the Wireworld hybrid cable will fair better. I have not ordered one yet, but will at some point.


----------



## Mikezorg

Have people used the longest Zeskit copper cable (5m/16ft) with a RTX 3080 or 3090 successfully?

Apologies for the very specific question. I've seen the cable mentioned repeatedly but not sure I've seen anyone mention they're using this exact setup.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Mikezorg said:


> Have people used the longest Zeskit copper cable (5m/16ft) with a RTX 3080 or 3090 successfully?
> 
> Apologies for the very specific question. I've seen the cable mentioned repeatedly but not sure I've seen anyone mention they're using this exact setup.


5m or so is the maximum cable distance that can be certified for passive cables and Ultra High Speed HDMI. If you have one of the new GPUs I suggest you try it. Zeskit should have a good return policy if it doesn't work. That being said, if the cable doesn't work that's bad news for the folks with short runs and certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables because utilizing the HDMI 2.1 options sets is going to be difficult. Active cables, like the Ruipro 8k are really only designed for long runs. They do work in most cases for short runs and HDMI 2.0 but that's an expensive overkill. I've tested them for the short runs but I don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices to check those options.


----------



## 5468467984

@Otto Pylot Looks like all Fiber cables which advertised 48gbps are failing the 40gbps and 48gbps tests. Went through amazon recent reviews on cables, they are full of people saying that short copper cables working fine at 48Gbps, but the fiber cables advertised at 48gbps are failing. Looks like we may have to wait a bit longer for actually working 48Gbps fiber cables.

Got this one on Amzon singapore for the RUIPro cable:

SGR0108
_1.0 out of 5 stars_ Does NOT work at 4K120 with LG OLED and RTX 3080
26 September 2020 - Published on Amazon.com
Verified Purchase
I picked this cable up earlier in the year because I needed a long HDMI run from the PC in my office to the 77CX in my living room. I chose this in the hope that it would be future proof when the 3000-series nVidia cards were released.

I picked up a 3080 last week, and this cable will NOT pass 4K120 4:4:4 10-bit to the TV at all. Nothing but a black screen. The best it was able to do is 4K120 4:2:0 8-bit - which was already possible over HDMI 2.0 on the 2080Ti I replaced.

Highly disappointing given how much this cable costs.

Update (10/02/2020): I am updating this review as I have installed the latest firmware on my LG CX (03.11.25), and the latest drivers on my 3080 (456.71) and can confirm that unfortunately, this cable still does not work at 4K 4:4:4 10-bit 120Hz. I have tested a Belkin 6ft 8K HDMI cable, and Zeskit 6.5ft 8K cable, both of which work perfectly for me.


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> Unofficially there are 48Gbps cables. Officially certified ones will be available soon.
> 
> Did you not watch the second video? He says even 10 bit displays can benefit from a 12 bit signal due to all the processing and conversions the TV does. Even if you do just use 4K 120Hz 10 bit, the extra 8Gbps left over can be used to reduce lag if QFT (Quick Frame Transport) is available.


Do we know when Soon might be @avernar ?


----------



## Cordy

G-Rex said:


> Yes, I know re the Ruipro hybrids. I would imagine the Wireworld hybrid cable will fair better. I have not ordered one yet, but will at some point.


I am interested in that Wireworld cable for my current install as they seem to be reputable in the A/V installer world. But that premium is a lot to ask with no real world reviews of how it handles content requiring more than 18Gbps. I'm also looking at Monoprice Slim Runs. They have some 30' back in stock at half the price of the Wireworld cables. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> @Otto Pylot Looks like all Fiber cables which advertised 48gbps are failing the 40gbps and 48gbps tests. Went through amazon recent reviews on cables, they are full of people saying that short copper cables working fine at 48Gbps, but the fiber cables advertised at 48gbps are failing. Looks like we may have to wait a bit longer for actually working 48Gbps fiber cables.
> 
> Got this one on Amzon singapore for the RUIPro cable:
> 
> SGR0108
> _1.0 out of 5 stars_ Does NOT work at 4K120 with LG OLED and RTX 3080
> 26 September 2020 - Published on Amazon.com
> Verified Purchase
> I picked this cable up earlier in the year because I needed a long HDMI run from the PC in my office to the 77CX in my living room. I chose this in the hope that it would be future proof when the 3000-series nVidia cards were released.
> 
> I picked up a 3080 last week, and this cable will NOT pass 4K120 4:4:4 10-bit to the TV at all. Nothing but a black screen. The best it was able to do is 4K120 4:2:0 8-bit - which was already possible over HDMI 2.0 on the 2080Ti I replaced.
> 
> Highly disappointing given how much this cable costs.
> 
> Update (10/02/2020): I am updating this review as I have installed the latest firmware on my LG CX (03.11.25), and the latest drivers on my 3080 (456.71) and can confirm that unfortunately, this cable still does not work at 4K 4:4:4 10-bit 120Hz. I have tested a Belkin 6ft 8K HDMI cable, and Zeskit 6.5ft 8K cable, both of which work perfectly for me.


Yes. There are still on-going issues with active hybrid fiber cables and bandwidths higher than 40Gbps. It's unfortunate but until the HDMI 2.1 device mfrs can start to work more closely with active cable mfrs, these issues are still going to be commonplace. The technical challenges of getting these active chipsets to work reliably with the modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets of the GPUs and "HDMI 2.1" panels has proven to be considerably more difficult than anyone imagined and one of the many reasons why active cables can not be certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.

It's not surprising that the passive copper-only cables from Belkin and Zeskit, both of which will be receiving the QR labels for Ultra High Speed HDMI very soon work at under 15'. Ruipro makes very good cables, and their QC/QA is very comprehensive, but even with a couple of the 3080's and 3090's to finally test against, it's still very difficult to get their proprietary chipsets to work with the proprietary chipsets of the device mfrs, especially at the lengths that consumers want to/need to use.

As far as future proofing goes, I've always said that the ONLY way to achieve that is to use a conduit for long runs if you don't have easy access to your cabling because chances are you will be needing to upgrade your cabling as HDMI 2.1 becomes commonplace. I just thought that it would take a little longer but I guess that's what the early adopters are for... to beta test for the rest of us . Other than moving your equipment to be within that HDMI 2.1 distance limitation of 15' or less for passive cables, you'll just have to wait.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes. There are still on-going issues with active hybrid fiber cables and bandwidths higher than 40Gbps. It's unfortunate but until the HDMI 2.1 device mfrs can start to work more closely with active cable mfrs, these issues are still going to be commonplace. The technical challenges of getting these active chipsets to work reliably with the modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets of the GPUs and "HDMI 2.1" panels has proven to be considerably more difficult than anyone imagined and one of the many reasons why active cables can not be certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.



If there were problems with GPU and TV HDMI2.1 interfaces, the same GPU and TV interfaces when directly connected over a passive cable would have the same issue (would it not?), but they end up communicating at 48Gbps just fine. So, I hardly believe that there is anything modified on the GPU HDMI 2.1 interfaces, or something fishy on TV HDMI 2.1 interfaces.

Another point to be noted is, these cables are able to work with same GPU and TV when we lower the resolution and refresh rate. If there was a problem with the GPU and TV interfaces, it would still not work.

So based on these two points, I believe that these cables just can't carry the transfer rates they are advertising. Occam's razor, sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.

We will get there. Hopefully the actual 48Gbps fiber cables will be with us soon.

EDIT: Grammar.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> If there were problems with GPU and TV HDMI2.1 interfaces, the same GPU and TV interfaces when directly connected over a passive cable would have the same issue (would it not?), but they end up communicating at 48Gbps just fine. So, I hardly believe that there is anything modified on the GPU HDMI 2.1 interfaces, or something fishy on TV HDMI 2.1 interfaces.
> 
> Another point to be noted is, these cables are able to work with same GPU and TV when we lower the resolution and refresh rate. If there was a problem with the GPU and TV interfaces, it would still not work.
> 
> So based on these two points, I believe that these cables just can't carry the transfer rates they are advertising. Occam's razor, sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer.
> 
> We will get there. Hopefully the actual 48Gbps fiber cables will be with us soon.
> 
> EDIT: Grammar.


There is a big difference between the way a passive cable communicates with the HDMI port and how an active cable communicates. Unless HDMI.org and HDMI LA changes their certification protocols, active cables will never be certified with a QR label of authenticity. Distance, as I have said, is one of the main reasons. The communication between the active chipsets in the cable's connector ends and the HDMI port (power draw) in the sink end is another obstacle that needs to be overcome, and that has proven to be considerably more difficult than originally thought. What happens in a QA/QC lab is obviously very different that is what is occurring with the recently released consumer devices.

The consumer and the cable mfrs have no way of knowing how the device mfrs designed their HDMI 2.1 chipsets. Certainly they have to pass CTS before they can be called HDMI 2.1 but additions to some of the chipsets to allow for upgrades or other options specific to the mfr may have cause issues with the cable mfrs' chipsets because until very recently, they didn't have devices to test their cables against. That's starting to change and yes, it may be all on the cable mfrs to figure this out, and that's what they are attempting to do now. But that's going to take time to make them "universal" across the HDMI 2.1 universe. There are no, and there never will be 100% guarantees that any active hybrid fiber cable will work with all HDMI 2.1 devices at any length up to maybe 100'. Patience is a virtue.


----------



## Cordy

Cordy said:


> I am interested in that Wireworld cable for my current install as they seem to be reputable in the A/V installer world. But that premium is a lot to ask with no real world reviews of how it handles content requiring more than 18Gbps. I'm also looking at Monoprice Slim Runs. They have some 30' back in stock at half the price of the Wireworld cables.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


And through searching there is another cable that is also active fiber optic from Cleerline that is rated for in wall installation. 8K UHD HDMI Active Optical Cables

That seems to be the only thing to consider with the Monoprice cable is that even they themselves state they don't recommend using their cable for an in wall run on their Amazon listing because it's not CL2/CL3 rated. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## 5468467984

I agree patience is a virtue. Hence why I haven't upgraded my fiber yet. Would rather wait for the one that is certified to carry 48Gbps.



Otto Pylot said:


> There is a big difference between the way a passive cable communicates with the HDMI port and how an active cable communicates. Unless HDMI.org and HDMI LA changes their certification protocols, active cables will never be certified with a QR label of authenticity. Distance, as I have said, is one of the main reasons. The communication between the active chipsets in the cable's connector ends and the HDMI port (power draw) in the sink end is another obstacle that needs to be overcome, and that has proven to be considerably more difficult than originally thought. What happens in a QA/QC lab is obviously very different that is what is occurring with the recently released consumer devices.


I am sure that QA/QC of these cables needs to be brought up to the snuff. But for a hybrid cable the data cable path is only a few centimetres, because it runs into the connector and right away gets trancieved into an optical signal which has next to no attenuation over short distances like 50'. So distance will only apply to ethernet and eARC signals, which is not the issue here. And even in regards to power, it is cable manufacturers responsibility to build based on the power available to them, if not have a usb component in there for additional power source. Either way I think we are in an agreement that these cables are not built to standards.



Otto Pylot said:


> The consumer and the cable mfrs have no way of knowing how the device mfrs designed their HDMI 2.1 chipsets. Certainly they have to pass CTS before they can be called HDMI 2.1 but additions to some of the chipsets to allow for upgrades or other options specific to the mfr may have cause issues with the cable mfrs' chipsets because until very recently, they didn't have devices to test their cables against.


You are right about source devices to improve testing, which is why I am waiting for my HDMI 2.1 card before I buy a cable, to test it day 1. On the flip side, this is exactly why we must adhere to the standards. If everyone builds based on standards we wouldn't have the issue, right? And this is why passively connected HDMI 2.1 devices are working just fine, because they are built to standards, and tested to meet these standards.



Otto Pylot said:


> There are no, and there never will be 100% guarantees that any active hybrid fiber cable will work with all HDMI 2.1 devices at any length up to maybe 100'.


100' is hard due to eARC limitations beyond 50'. But up to 50', it should be fine as long as cable manufacturers are conducting due diligence. In due time I suppose.


All good, we will get there. Did the new RUIPro cable get announced yet?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> I agree patience is a virtue. Hence why I haven't upgraded my fiber yet. Would rather wait for the one that is certified to carry 48Gbps.
> 
> 
> I am sure that QA/QC of these cables needs to be brought up to the snuff. But for a hybrid cable the data cable path is only a few centimetres, because it runs into the connector and right away gets trancieved into an optical signal which has next to no attenuation over short distances like 50'. So distance will only apply to ethernet and eARC signals, which is not the issue here. And even in regards to power, it is cable manufacturers responsibility to build based on the power available to them, if not have a usb component in there for additional power source. Either way I think we are in an agreement that these cables are not built to standards.
> 
> 
> You are right about source devices to improve testing, which is why I am waiting for my HDMI 2.1 card before I buy a cable, to test it day 1. On the flip side, this is exactly why we must adhere to the standards. If everyone builds based on standards we wouldn't have the issue, right? And this is why passively connected HDMI 2.1 devices are working just fine, because they are built to standards, and tested to meet these standards.
> 
> 
> 100' is hard due to eARC limitations beyond 50'. But up to 50', it should be fine as long as cable manufacturers are conducting due diligence. In due time I suppose.
> 
> 
> All good, we will get there. Did the new RUIPro cable get announced yet?


I've not been happy with HDMI cables since the transition from HDMI 1.4 to 2.0, and have been very vocal about it (much to the annoyance of some). In fact, I'm not really a fan of HDMI in general but there's nothing that can be done about that.

The cable body, as you point out, is not so much the problem as are the chips in the connector ends, and that's where the issues lie with active cables. It's a very delicate dance to get error correction, timing, etc at the "breakneck" speeds of HDMI 2.1 to work with someone else's chipsets. One would think that's not the case but obviously that's not true.

I've had a cable mfr mention to me that it would be a bit easier to design an active cable if the output current of the HDMI port was a bit more than the current 5v/50mA, but that's wishful thinking. Unfortunately, the cable mfrs are forced to design their cables to meet the basic requirements of HDMI and have them communicate correctly and reliably across different platforms, at different lengths for the new option sets. And that's one of the reasons why HDMI.org will probably never approve an ATC program for active cables, regardless of the cable type. So mfrs like Ruipro and the other hybrid fiber cable mfrs will always be tweaking and working to keep their cables as reliable as possible. The cost of that is also something that is going to be passed on to the consumer because in addition to using industry-standard testing equipment they now have to purchase the shipping HDMI 2.1 consumer devices for additional testing.

This probably won't be as much as an issue if the cable run is under 15' because a passive cable can be certified and used with no "electronic" communication going on other than a clean signal path between source and sink.

As with all things HDMI, this is a mess (one that was predictable) but it is what it is. I'm carefully optimistic that it will get worked out but it's not going to be resolved quickly. Certainly not quick enough for the gamers who want to use their new GPUs and tv's as the ultimate gaming platform.

One would think that a ratified standard like HDMI 2.1 wouldn't have issues, and it probably won't with passive cables who adhere to the HDMI standard of cable type and length, but active cables are a whole other matter.

I haven't talked to Ruipro in a couple of weeks because they are extremely busy as of late, so I don't know if they will have a "new" cable or not. They did tell me that they don't want to change the product code (for various reasons) and will probably stick with the same coding (other than lot number) because of their lifetime warranty and return policy for their cables. I will be talking with them next week so if there is anything I can relay here I will.

*UPDATE:* I actually just talked to Ruipro this morning. They are extremely frustrated right now because their 8k cables are working just fine with the 3080 and 3090 GPUs they received a couple of weeks ago for their in-house testing, so why they are failing once they get to the consumer is of great concern to them. I forgot to ask them what they are using on the sink side (tv) but I will followup on that next week.


----------



## 5468467984

That is certainly good news @Otto Pylot . I am glad that RUIPro is standing behind their warranty and product, certainly reassuring. Looking forward to them figuring out the challenges. Keep us updated!

On a side note, I saw the Big Navi numbers this morning, certainly a competitive card. Around 10% faster on rasterization about 10% slower on RTRT. If they price it well and since 3080/90 are hard to buy, might as well pick up the biggest Big Navi when they are in-store.


----------



## WhartoX

I got the "improved chipset" cables from Ruipro a couple hours ago and they kinda work. 4K60 works fine. 4K120 12-bit color works but the screen drops out every 10-20 seconds. I am using an RTX 3090 and C9 TV. See pics. I guess there is more work needed or this is an LG C9 issue. Not sure if I want to return the cables and wait for a working solutions or keep them and hope firmware
fixes stop the signal dropping. BTW I have G-Sync turned off.


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> I got the "improved chipset" cables from Ruipro a couple hours ago and they kinda work. 4K60 works fine. 4K120 12-bit color works but the screen drops out every 10-20 seconds. I am using an RTX 3090 and C9 TV. See pics. I guess there is more work needed or this is an LG C9 issue. Not sure if I want to return the cables and wait for a working solutions or keep them and hope firmware
> fixes stop the signal dropping. BTW I have G-Sync turned off.


Continue to take note of your settings (source/sink) and results and then let Ruipro know. The more detailed feedback they get from 3090/C9 users etc the sooner they may be able to figure out what's wrong if it is on their end. I have a feeling that it's not just limited to one device (cable, source, sink) but may be a combination. I'll be talking to them again next week. Is that HDCP 1.4/2.2 fail correct?

@Soul_ I don't know if Ruipro is going to test their cables against any other cards like the AMD card or not. Seems like everyone is rushing to get their cards to market before the official start of the holiday season and then worry about compatibility later on. Gotta make those holiday sales look good.


----------



## provenflipper

Just got my Zeskit 16’ cable today. Thing seems really well built and is definitely on the thicker side. 

It passed the 40Gbps test on the x4700 multiple times. I also tested a 3ft Monoprice cable, which passed every time and some old cables that failed when I expected them to. 

I’ll be pulling a 5m Ruipro out of the wall tomorrow and will test it when I have both ends available. 

The real tests will come in 3 weeks when the new consoles are here and I can hopefully enjoy some 4K/120 greatness on the X900H.


----------



## jugsta

provenflipper said:


> Just got my Zeskit 16’ cable today. Thing seems really well built and is definitely on the thicker side.
> 
> It passed the 40Gbps test on the x4700 multiple times. I also tested a 3ft Monoprice cable, which passed every time and some old cables that failed when I expected them to.
> 
> I’ll be pulling a 5m Ruipro out of the wall tomorrow and will test it when I have both ends available.
> 
> The real tests will come in 3 weeks when the new consoles are here and I can hopefully enjoy some 4K/120 greatness on the X900H.


I will be interested in following your results. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> Just got my Zeskit 16’ cable today. Thing seems really well built and is definitely on the thicker side.
> 
> It passed the 40Gbps test on the x4700 multiple times. I also tested a 3ft Monoprice cable, which passed every time and some old cables that failed when I expected them to.
> 
> I’ll be pulling a 5m Ruipro out of the wall tomorrow and will test it when I have both ends available.
> 
> The real tests will come in 3 weeks when the new consoles are here and I can hopefully enjoy some 4K/120 greatness on the X900H.


As a side note, I will be testing Zeskit's UHS HDMI cables on my two systems around the end of November. This will be mostly for the folks who don't have HDMI 2.1 devices but may in the future and want to know how these cables perform with the HDMI 2.0 option sets and older systems now. Zeskit is still collecting data on compatibility with their new cables and may make some changes to them so that's why we're waiting to test until the end of November.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> @Soul_ I don't know if Ruipro is going to test their cables against any other cards like the AMD card or not. Seems like everyone is rushing to get their cards to market before the official start of the holiday season and then worry about compatibility later on. Gotta make those holiday sales look good.


That's all good my friend. As long it works on one, we would be a lot better off than where we are.


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## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> That's all good my friend. As long it works on one, we would be a lot better off than where we are.


I agree.


----------



## bryantc

The first PS5 units have been sent to reviewers. The box has prominent 8K and 4K120 logos so we can assume that the included HDMI cable has been tested for these. We still don't know if PS5 does 40Gbps or 48Gbps.

Xbox Series X also comes with a "Ultra High Speed HDMI cable"


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> The first PS5 units have been sent to reviewers. The box has prominent 8K and 4K120 logos so we can assume that the included HDMI cable has been tested for these. We still don't know if PS5 does 40Gbps or 48Gbps.
> 
> Xbox Series X also comes with a "Ultra High Speed HDMI cable"


I just posted an article about a bug in the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that may also affect the PS5s. I hope the new units are not affected.


----------



## HomieTheClown

Hey, I see a lot of people having trouble with these 2.1 cables not playing nice with the 3090 GPU's but is anyone just testing them between their AVR and TV? I want to do is connect a PS5 to my receiver and use one of these 2.1 cables (12.5m) to my TV. Basically, are the long versions of these cables only failing when connecting from GPU's or are they messing up in all applications. 

Hope that make sense y'all!


----------



## alebonau

HomieTheClown said:


> use one of these 2.1 cables (12.5m) to my TV. Basically, are the long versions of these cables only failing when connecting from GPU's or are they messing up in all applications.


theres no certified cables yet, so anyones guess ... 12.5m is a decent length to so will push envelope i imagine ...


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Hey, I see a lot of people having trouble with these 2.1 cables not playing nice with the 3090 GPU's but is anyone just testing them between their AVR and TV? I want to do is connect a PS5 to my receiver and use one of these 2.1 cables (12.5m) to my TV. Basically, are the long versions of these cables only failing when connecting from GPU's or are they messing up in all applications.
> 
> Hope that make sense y'all!


HDMI 2.1 certified cables (ATC) will be passive and max out at 5m. Anything beyond can not be certified by HDMI.org and you will have to look at hybrid fiber cables.

There are now some HDMI 2.1 certified cables that will have the QR label of authenticity probably by mid-November. There are some being sold now but they do not have the QR labels affixed to the packaging even tho they are marked as Ultra High Speed HDMI and list the HDMI 2.1 options sets that they have been tested for and passed.

There are reports of a bug in the HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the new Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha receivers as well as the new Nvidia GPUs, the new Xbox and possibly the PS5. The issues that some folks are seeing with the hybrid fiber cables may be related to the bugs in the chipsets of those devices and not necessarily the cable. Whether those issues can be corrected with a firmware update or a board swap it's just too early to tell. All one can do at this point in time is be patient and try different cables because you may get lucky and find one that has better compatibility with the bug in the HDMI chipsets.


----------



## a-haanuk

WhartoX said:


> I got the "improved chipset" cables from Ruipro a couple hours ago and they kinda work. 4K60 works fine. 4K120 12-bit color works but the screen drops out every 10-20 seconds. I am using an RTX 3090 and C9 TV. See pics. I guess there is more work needed or this is an LG C9 issue. Not sure if I want to return the cables and wait for a working solutions or keep them and hope firmware
> fixes stop the signal dropping. BTW I have G-Sync turned off.
> 
> View attachment 3049472
> 
> View attachment 3049473



I reached out to Ruipro to obtain some sample 2.1 HDMI's for an upcoming project, They sent me the same SKU - I tested the cables with a 3090 FE and 2 OLED TV's (C9 & W9) 4k 120 failed as it does for you. I can get 1440p @120hz with no issues.

After further communication with Ruipro, they have confirmed that the chipset used in the cables are not fully compatible with the HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the C9 or W9 - Testing has shown that 4k120 with the cables will only work with 2020 LGTV's (CX, WX) - I don't have a 2020 LGTV so cannot confirm.


----------



## Otto Pylot

a-haanuk said:


> I reached out to Ruipro to obtain some sample 2.1 HDMI's for an upcoming project, They sent me the same SKU - I tested the cables with a 3090 FE and 2 OLED TV's (C9 & W9) 4k 120 failed as it does for you. I can get 1440p @120hz with no issues.
> 
> After further communication with Ruipro, they have confirmed that the chipset used in the cables are not fully compatible with the HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the C9 or W9 - Testing has shown that 4k120 with the cables will only work with 2020 LGTV's (CX, WX) - I don't have a 2020 LGTV so cannot confirm.


Ruipro does not want to change the product number because that can be confusing to the marketplace and they would rather just replace the cable with the newer ones. And yes, they have suspended sales (directly from Ruipro) because of the issues in the defective Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets that are found in the 3080/3090 GPUs, the new Denon/Marantz/Yamaha receivers, Xbox, and possibly the new PS5. LG uses a proprietary HDMI 2.1 chipset in some of their models so that may be why the CX works but not the C9. The HDMI 2.1 chipset bug in the devices (not the cables) affects the way data transfer is handled. So, if you need hybrid fiber cables that have been tested (not certified because active cables can't be) you'll need to look elsewhere until Ruipro gets a handle on the incompatibility or the device mfrs can update and/or replace the defective chipsets.


----------



## jugsta

This is starting to get good


----------



## family_guy

I mean the cable wouldn't be at fault then it seems, and I'm not even sure why they need to test with specific TVs and GPUs. Is there not a device that can independently verify supported bandwidth?


----------



## Bacongineer

family_guy said:


> I mean the cable wouldn't be at fault then it seems


Since a standard non-fiber cable will work for those NVIDIA and LG devices, then the fiber cables are at fault here. As far as NVIDIA and LG are concerned, their devices work fine with a "normal" cable.



family_guy said:


> and I'm not even sure why they need to test with specific TVs and GPUs. Is there not a device that can independently verify supported bandwidth?


The problem is the chipset in the fiber cables themselves. They currently have incompatibility issues. According to Ruipro, they are actively working on improving their chipset to be compatible with more HDMI 2.1 devices.


----------



## Inutile

Just want to pop in and say that I just got a "newest" version RuiPro8K 10m cable straight from them and it's working flawlessly with my PC with RTX 3090 going straight into my Sony 900H. 4K 120hz HDR 12bpc with no issues. I am using the included 5V power adapter. Can't test VRR until Sony pushes the firmware for it but I'd imagine it will work. I also don't have a 2.1 capable AVR yet so can't test it that way either.

Would also like to note that the RuiPro cable is very pliable and thin making it very easy to route compared to the thick cable I had before.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bacongineer said:


> Since a standard non-fiber cable will work for those NVIDIA and LG devices, then the fiber cables are at fault here. As far as NVIDIA and LG are concerned, their devices work fine with a "normal" cable.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is the chipset in the fiber cables themselves. They currently have incompatibility issues. According to Ruipro, they are actively working on improving their chipset to be compatible with more HDMI 2.1 devices.


I don't know of any copper-only ("standard") HDMI cable that can reliably carry a signal at 40Gbps or faster over 30'. The HDMI 2.0 option sets are not the issue here. The chipsets in the hybrid fiber cables are probably at fault because compatibility with their chipsets and undeniably a fault in some of the HDMI 2.1 chipsets is very difficult to overcome. That's what I've been saying all along. Testing on sophisticated instrumentation in a QC environment is one, but until the cables can be tested against shipping consumer devices we won't know what works and what doesn't. And being as the 3080s and 3090s, as an example, just hit the consumer marketplace in late Sept. the device mfrs didn't really have any shipping units to test against.

Add to that a bug in how data is transmitted on some of these consumer devices and here we are. The HDMI 2.1 chipset mfrs (Panasonic for one) need to take part of the blame for this. And being as the info about the chipset bug was not officially released, only leaked, makes one wonder how long they were aware of this. It's so much easier to blame the cable mfrs than to own up to a design and/or a mfr'ing default, be up front about it, and start on a fix. It's all about sales folks, devices and cables, and as usual, the consumer is caught in the middle.

If anyone is interested I can post the instrumentation that Ruipro used to validate their cable performances prior to gaining access to the shipping GPUs.


----------



## 5468467984

Inutile said:


> Just want to pop in and say that I just got a "newest" version RuiPro8K 10m cable straight from them and it's working flawlessly with my PC with RTX 3090 going straight into my Sony 900H. 4K 120hz HDR 12bpc with no issues. I am using the included 5V power adapter. Can't test VRR until Sony pushes the firmware for it but I'd imagine it will work. I also don't have a 2.1 capable AVR yet so can't test it that way either.
> 
> Would also like to note that the RuiPro cable is very pliable and thin making it very easy to route compared to the thick cable I had before.
> 
> View attachment 3050346


That is terrific news!! Did you buy it from Amazon? If you could send me a link to the product, it would be awesome.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Inutile said:


> Just want to pop in and say that I just got a "newest" version RuiPro8K 10m cable straight from them and it's working flawlessly with my PC with RTX 3090 going straight into my Sony 900H. 4K 120hz HDR 12bpc with no issues. I am using the included 5V power adapter. Can't test VRR until Sony pushes the firmware for it but I'd imagine it will work. I also don't have a 2.1 capable AVR yet so can't test it that way either.
> 
> Would also like to note that the RuiPro cable is very pliable and thin making it very easy to route compared to the thick cable I had before.
> 
> View attachment 3050346


I'm glad that you are using the power inserter. When I was testing their 8k cables I didn't see any difference with or without it but I also didn't have any HDMI 2.1 devices to test it with so there was no reason for me to use it. Did you connect it at the source or sink side? 

You illustrate a point that has been driving Ruipro crazy is that when they tested their cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs, there were very few if any issues so that's why they released the cables. So either they received GPUs without any chipset flaws, the tweaks they were making to the cables worked, or a little bit of both. They have since suspended their 8k cables until they can further isolate the issues and will probably just replace any cable that is requested with that they currently have in stock. I don't believe that the Sony tv was one that had chipset issues.


----------



## Inutile

Soul_ said:


> That is terrific news!! Did you buy it from Amazon? If you could send me a link to the product, it would be awesome.


Yeah, Amazon. I followed the instructions somewhere above in this thread to make sure it was shipping from RUIPRO-US instead of from Amazon. The cable actually shipped directly from China.



Otto Pylot said:


> I'm glad that you are using the power inserter. When I was testing their 8k cables I didn't see any difference with or without it but I also didn't have any HDMI 2.1 devices to test it with so there was no reason for me to use it. Did you connect it at the source or sink side?
> 
> You illustrate a point that has been driving Ruipro crazy is that when they tested their cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs, there were very few if any issues so that's why they released the cables. So either they received GPUs without any chipset flaws, the tweaks they were making to the cables worked, or a little bit of both. They have since suspended their 8k cables until they can further isolate the issues and will probably just replace any cable that is requested with that they currently have in stock. I don't believe that the Sony tv was one that had chipset issues.


I'm using the power adapter on the source side. I haven't tried it on the other end and haven't tried not using it. I have a USB wall outlet right behind my PC so just plugged it in there and it works so I'm not going to mess with it. So far for my setup it's working perfectly, that could change once I eventually switch to a 2.1 capable AVR but for now I'm happy.


----------



## shaulch

a-haanuk said:


> I reached out to Ruipro to obtain some sample 2.1 HDMI's for an upcoming project, They sent me the same SKU - I tested the cables with a 3090 FE and 2 OLED TV's (C9 & W9) 4k 120 failed as it does for you. I can get 1440p @120hz with no issues.
> 
> After further communication with Ruipro, they have confirmed that the chipset used in the cables are not fully compatible with the HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the C9 or W9 - Testing has shown that 4k120 with the cables will only work with 2020 LGTV's (CX, WX) - I don't have a 2020 LGTV so cannot confirm.


Is it general HDMI 2.1 issue with C9 or only when connecting to 3090 ? (In other words, if you will connect XBOX X or PS5 directly to C9 , do we expect an issue ? i understand that currently we expect that connecting via Denon wont work for 4K120)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

shaulch said:


> Is it general HDMI 2.1 issue with C9 or only when connecting to 3090 ? (In other words, if you will connect XBOX X or PS5 directly to C9 , do we expect an issue ? i understand that currently we expect that connecting via Denon wont work for 4K120)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


There is nothing set it stone as far as the "leaked" information about the bug in the Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets. The problem is supposed to affect the Xbox X as well as the newest HDMI 2.1 receivers from Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha. Nothing is known yet about the PS5. My feeling is that some combinations will work which will further muddy the waters. All one can do is try and hope for a little bit of luck at this point in time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Inutile said:


> Yeah, Amazon. I followed the instructions somewhere above in this thread to make sure it was shipping from RUIPRO-US instead of from Amazon. The cable actually shipped directly from China.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the power adapter on the source side. I haven't tried it on the other end and haven't tried not using it. I have a USB wall outlet right behind my PC so just plugged it in there and it works so I'm not going to mess with it. So far for my setup it's working perfectly, that could change once I eventually switch to a 2.1 capable AVR but for now I'm happy.


Sounds good. Yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it .


----------



## WhartoX

Inutile said:


> Yeah, Amazon. I followed the instructions somewhere above in this thread to make sure it was shipping from RUIPRO-US instead of from Amazon. The cable actually shipped directly from China.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using the power adapter on the source side. I haven't tried it on the other end and haven't tried not using it. I have a USB wall outlet right behind my PC so just plugged it in there and it works so I'm not going to mess with it. So far for my setup it's working perfectly, that could change once I eventually switch to a 2.1 capable AVR but for now I'm happy.


When I tried using the USB adapter, it still can't do 4K120hz on my C9. Ill try a different USB power source


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> When I tried using the USB adapter, it still can't do 4K120hz on my C9. Ill try a different USB power source


There are issues partially related to the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that LG uses in their C9 series that has problems communicating properly with the chipsets in the Ruipro8k cables. This is related to the recently reported bug in the Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets used by Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Xbox X, Nvidia, and maybe PS5. Ruipro and other active hybrid fiber cable mfrs are scrambling to figure out a fix but the device mfrs have to come thru as well.

To quote HDMI.org:

*"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*

That pretty much sums up the current issues with HDMI 2.1. Keep in mind that HDMI is not an industry standard, but a set of options that while they have to be offered and validated somehow, the implementation is up to the device mfrs.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> There are issues partially related to the HDMI 2.1 chipsets that LG uses in their C9 series that has problems communicating properly with the chipsets in the Ruipro8k cables. This is related to the recently reported bug in the Panasonic HDMI 2.1 chipsets used by Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Xbox X, Nvidia, and maybe PS5.


Where did you here that the C9 has a chipset issue?

Also, the Xbox, PS5 and Nvidia do not use the Panasonic Solutions transceiver chips.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Where did you here that the C9 has a chipset issue?
> 
> Also, the Xbox, PS5 and Nvidia do not use the Panasonic Solutions transceiver chips.


The article concerning the Panasonic HDMI chipset mentioned issues with those chips and the Nvidia 3080/3090 and Xbox X. They aren't sure yet about the PS5. As far as the LG C9 goes, there are issues with that panel and the active hybrid cables but not with the CX so it's hard to determine where the issue lies. I do know that at one time, according the the LG Forums, that they were going to be incorporating a modified HDMI 2.1 chipset in their new panels that implemented some HDMI options sets a little differently but if that ever came to pass I didn't bother to check further.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> The article concerning the Panasonic HDMI chipset mentioned issues with those chips and the Nvidia 3080/3090 and Xbox X.


Yes, but those devices use chips by Nvidia and AMD. You're original post made it sound like they were using Panasonic Solutions chips.



Otto Pylot said:


> As far as the LG C9 goes, there are issues with that panel and the active hybrid cables but not with the CX so it's hard to determine where the issue lies.


Most likely because the C9 will use a 48Gbps FRL link and the CX will use a 40Gbps FRL link. The cable might not be able to get to 48Gbps.


----------



## Brettcp

Inutile said:


> Just want to pop in and say that I just got a "newest" version RuiPro8K 10m cable straight from them and it's working flawlessly with my PC with RTX 3090 going straight into my Sony 900H. 4K 120hz HDR 12bpc with no issues. I am using the included 5V power adapter. Can't test VRR until Sony pushes the firmware for it but I'd imagine it will work. I also don't have a 2.1 capable AVR yet so can't test it that way either.
> 
> Would also like to note that the RuiPro cable is very pliable and thin making it very easy to route compared to the thick cable I had before.
> 
> View attachment 3050346


I just received my 30m Ruipro (straight from China, chatted with them and they told me it would work with my 3090 and X900H) and can't get it working at 4k @ 120hz with my RTX 3090 and Sony X900H. Which HDMI input are you using on the X900H? I tried HDMI 4 (and set it to Enhanced mode for 4k @ 120fps) but no luck. I briefly get a picture which flickers then drops out to a black screen. Which end of the cable are you using the power injector at? I tried both, but no luck. I did disable G-Sync as well.

Update: Ruipro said they are aware of this and are now sending me a new "Gen 3" cable to resolve this known issue.


----------



## christofin

Inutile said:


> Yeah, Amazon. I followed the instructions somewhere above in this thread to make sure it was shipping from RUIPRO-US instead of from Amazon. The cable actually shipped directly from China.


Can you please share these directions? I've gone back a few pages but can't find it.


----------



## christofin

Never mind, I figured it out - click the 'New From' button below the order section, and then you can select the product that ships from RUIPRO-US. This is my second cable from them, let's hope that this time it works. I'm buying the 40ft one.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Never mind, I figured it out - click the 'New From' button below the order section, and then you can select the product that ships from RUIPRO-US. This is my second cable from them, let's hope that this time it works. I'm buying the 40ft one.


Good luck. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## Cordy

G-Rex said:


> Yes, I know re the Ruipro hybrids. I would imagine the Wireworld hybrid cable will fair better. I have not ordered one yet, but will at some point.


I ended up taking a plunge and ordering a 10 meter Wireworld cable. Since there were lots of varying results with the other cables users have tested figured it was worth the shot since they are supposed to be one of the well known cable manufacturers. Unfortunately won't have a source to truly test it for a couple of weeks. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

Cordy said:


> I ended up taking a plunge and ordering a 10 meter Wireworld cable. Since there were lots of varying results with the other cables users have tested figured it was worth the shot since they are supposed to be one of the well known cable manufacturers. Unfortunately won't have a source to truly test it for a couple of weeks.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Well, let us know how it works out. 30' might be an ok distance depending on the installation.


----------



## stuup1dmofo

I got the replacement cable from Ruipro shipped from China and can confirm that it does not work with an RTX 3080 FE and LG C9. I get no signal when trying to use 4k 120 4:4:4. Funny thing is that a regular passive short Amazon Basics High Speed HDMI cable will pass signal just fine, which is how I know it's not the TV and not the GPU. It looks like the chipset on the cable does not play well with the C9 and 3080. It's a real shame cause I really like Ruipro's customer service.


----------



## a-haanuk

RUIPro has reached out to me again, they have developed a 'GEN3' version that has resolved some compatibility issues with 2019 LGTV's - I will update you on this once I've received it.


----------



## djnb

a-haanuk said:


> RUIPro has reached out to me again, they have developed a 'GEN3' version that has resolved some compatibility issues with 2019 LGTV's - I will update you on this once I've received it.


Indeed they have reached out to me with the same. Looking forward to testing the new cable, fingers crossed. Will of course share my experience with you all too. RTX 3080, C9, 15m.


----------



## Brettcp

a-haanuk said:


> RUIPro has reached out to me again, they have developed a 'GEN3' version that has resolved some compatibility issues with 2019 LGTV's - I will update you on this once I've received it.


Got the same e-mail, they'll be shipping their new "Gen 3" 100ft cable out to me this week (RTX 3090 and Sony X900H).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yep. Ruipro told me the other day that had a new gen of the 8k cable tweaked and ready to go. Let us know how they work.


----------



## willl03

Following. I'll be purchasing the first 25'+ cable confirmed to work between RTX 3080 and LG C9


----------



## Otto Pylot

willl03 said:


> Following. I'll be purchasing the first 25'+ cable confirmed to work between RTX 3080 and LG C9


Keep in mind that there are no 100% guarantees that if a cable works for one system it will work for another. That's why you need to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. There's more to a successful cable connection than just the cable. And, if your 25' plus run is in-wall, the use of a conduit is almost mandatory because chances are you will be needing to replace/upgrade your cable in the future. This is especially true as the issues with the HDMI chipsets and the active cable components are tweaked over time for better compatibility and reliability. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so being able to easily upgrade your cabling is important. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof.


----------



## WhartoX

a-haanuk said:


> RUIPro has reached out to me again, they have developed a 'GEN3' version that has resolved some compatibility issues with 2019 LGTV's - I will update you on this once I've received it.


Same email here. 20m cable. Will report back


----------



## Postmoderndesign

Postmoderndesign said:


> There is no cable rated for 48 GBPS and there are no 12 bit display panels capable of 48 bits. Forget math. It is all above my pay grade. See if you can write an explanation. Do you need HDMI 2.1-probably not.


I should have included a cautionary note that I am not a gamer. I use HDMI to play movies from discs. So my experience is there. I wish good luck to gamers and I do not want to discourage anybody from experimenting.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Like @Postmoderndesign, I too am not a gamer so these HDMI 2.1 issues don't mean a lot to me. But, if there is any light I can shed for the gamers, who HDMI 2.1 is really aimed at, I try help where I can. Trial and error is the message of the day and CONDUIT is the mantra!


----------



## Zabojnik

This is kinda off-topic, but I thought if anyone would know, it'd be you gentlemen. I too am waiting for HDMI 2.1 over fiber waters to clear, however I realized I likely won't be able to make the run from my computer room to the C9 downstairs. Brick walls, electrical conduit that is less than 3/4 of an inch in diameter with cables already in it. There's just no room to squeeze through a HDMI connector.

Does anybody have any experience with HDMI over fiber extenders that use standard (single or multimode) fiber cables? How reliable are they compared to the above discussed fully-integrated HDMIoF cables? I realize it's probably too early to be looking for HDMI 2.1 versions of such devices. In fact, this is the only upcoming gizmo I've been able to find that promises 48Gbps bandwidth. But alas.






Next Generation Products -


Deliver 8K, full 48-Gbps HDMI 2.1 over one multimode optical fiber with the Inneos Real8K optical interconnect solution.




www.inneos.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Zabojnik said:


> This is kinda off-topic, but I thought if anyone would know, it'd be you gentlemen. I too am waiting for HDMI 2.1 over fiber waters to clear, however I realized I likely won't be able to make the run from my computer room to the C9 downstairs. Brick walls, electrical conduit that is less than 3/4 of an inch in diameter with cables already in it. There's just no room to squeeze through a HDMI connector.
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with HDMI over fiber extenders that use standard (single or multimode) fiber cables? How reliable are they compared to the above discussed fully-integrated HDMIoF cables? I realize it's probably too early to be looking for HDMI 2.1 versions of such devices. In fact, this is the only upcoming gizmo I've been able to find that promises 48Gbps bandwidth. But alas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Next Generation Products -
> 
> 
> Deliver 8K, full 48-Gbps HDMI 2.1 over one multimode optical fiber with the Inneos Real8K optical interconnect solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.inneos.com


Looks impressive but I think it's going to be a very long time before something like that is consumer friendly (cost/installation). As far as the current hybrid fiber cables go, it's going to be awhile yet before the compatibility bugs are worked out, let alone the distance issues. You might want to sit down with pencil and paper and see if there is a way to run a new conduit .


----------



## 5468467984

If there were issues with LGC9 those issues would exist with passive cables as well, but they don't. So, can someone explain how it is a C9 problem? C9 is pushing full 48Gbps, 4k 120Hz 12bit with passive cables. 

Unless someone can prove me wrong, I strongly believe that it is simply a bandwidth issue with current gen fiber cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> If there were issues with LGC9 those issues would exist with passive cables as well, but they don't. So, can someone explain how it is a C9 problem? C9 is pushing full 48Gbps, 4k 120Hz 12bit with passive cables.
> 
> Unless someone can prove me wrong, I strongly believe that it is simply a bandwidth issue with current gen fiber cables.


It could very well be the active cables having issues with the HDMI port on the C9 and power draw. Passive cables don't require any power draw from the HDMI port so chip compatibility is ruled out. Did you use the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables to make that determination?


----------



## PernusGre

For all Sony X900H users here:









HDMI 2.1 4K 120Hz Blur Bug?


I see you have tested 4K 120Hz, please test at 4K 120Hz with desktop in Windows 10 at 100 percent instead of it being scaled up. It appears to be broken and I have seen that review sites are missing this because of it being scaled up. What’s your imp




www.rtings.com


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> It could very well be the active cables having issues with the HDMI port on the C9 and power draw. Passive cables don't require any power draw from the HDMI port so chip compatibility is ruled out. Did you use the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables to make that determination?


Which could be true, that when pushed to the max the hybrid chips require more power than what HDMI spec allows to be leeched from the transceivers. It is possible that the amount of power available for leeching is enough only when hybrid chip needs send signal at a lower rate. And when it is pushed to the limit, its power consumption exceeds what HDMI ports allow.

But in those cases, using power injector would solve the issue. And based on the input we are receiving, power injectors did not fix the issue for everyone, but gen3 chip did. Leading me to believe that there is more to it than just power.


----------



## HomieTheClown

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that there are no 100% guarantees that if a cable works for one system it will work for another. That's why you need to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. There's more to a successful cable connection than just the cable. And, if your 25' plus run is in-wall, the use of a conduit is almost mandatory because chances are you will be needing to replace/upgrade your cable in the future. This is especially true as the issues with the HDMI chipsets and the active cable components are tweaked over time for better compatibility and reliability. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so being able to easily upgrade your cabling is important. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof.


Usually there's no such things as dumb question but...... What exactly is a conduit?


----------



## a-haanuk

HomieTheClown said:


> Usually there's no such things as dumb question but...... What exactly is a conduit?


Plastic piping that goes in the wall or under floor so you can fish cables through to the destination with relative ease


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Usually there's no such things as dumb question but...... What exactly is a conduit?


A conduit is a flexible tube, sometimes called a SmurfTube, that is installed inside the wall that you can run your cabling in instead of trying to fish it thru or around studs etc. Makes for installing/replacing the cabling so much easier to control.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Which could be true, that when pushed to the max the hybrid chips require more power than what HDMI spec allows to be leeched from the transceivers. It is possible that the amount of power available for leeching is enough only when hybrid chip needs send signal at a lower rate. And when it is pushed to the limit, its power consumption exceeds what HDMI ports allow.
> 
> But in those cases, using power injector would solve the issue. And based on the input we are receiving, power injectors did not fix the issue for everyone, but gen3 chip did. Leading me to believe that there is more to it than just power.


I agree, there's more to this issue than just power usage alone. That being said, the amount of power draw is set at 50mA so possibly a newer chip design (Ruipro designs their own chips in conjunction with a European mfr) with better power variability control was needed with the newer HDMI 2.1 chipsets. The HDMI port probably needs a better deisign now as well (higher current output) but that's an entirely different matter and probably won't happen. I still say there's enough blame to go around between the HDMI 2.1 chip mfrs, the implementation of the HDMI 2.1 options by the device mfrs and the compatibility with both by the cable mfrs.


----------



## Brettcp

Ruipro said my Gen 3 cable (100ft) will be shipping out on Monday, should receive it by the end of the week. Will post feedback once received.


----------



## 5468467984

Are Gen3 Cables available in Canada yet? I couldn't find any on Amazon.


----------



## Brettcp

Soul_ said:


> Are Gen3 Cables available in Canada yet? I couldn't find any on Amazon.


As far as I can tell, as of right now the only way to get a Gen 3 cable is from Ruipro direct from China. I'd suggest e-mailing them to determine how to get a Gen 3 cable. I haven't found anybody who actually has one yet who can confirm it works properly, may want to wait until its confirmed to work before ordering. I should have mine by the end of this week and will report back.

Edit: Just got tracking info, will have the 100ft Gen 3 cable delivered on Wednesday. Their support team has been very responsive, and shipped the new Gen 3 cable out to me via 3 day DHL express from China to California. So far I'm impressed with their customer service.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> As far as I can tell, as of right now the only way to get a Gen 3 cable is from Ruipro direct from China. I'd suggest e-mailing them to determine how to get a Gen 3 cable. I haven't found anybody who actually has one yet who can confirm it works properly, may want to wait until its confirmed to work before ordering. I should have mine by the end of this week and will report back.


Please refer to my post today about the various product codes (model numbers) of the Ruipro cables. As far as the Gen 3 cables, I posted the other day that according to Ruipro, you can order them from Amazon if you use the option Amazon-US (which may be Ruipro-US). However, it will take 4-6 weeks to get the cables if this is not a replacement. The cables will be labeled as Ruipro8k Gen-3 on the cable body as well as the packaging.

A 100' cable, even for Ruipro is challenging with consumer devices and installations so good luck.


----------



## Balfazar

Got the Gen3 Ruipro cable, testing with my 3090 and Samsung Q950T at 10m. Interesting but unsuccessful results:

4k120 with Samsung Input Signal Plus aka HDMI Deep Colour - tick, working
Try to enable Samsung Game Mode aka VRR - fail, lost signal. I repeated this test at resolutions down to 1080p60hz and same result.
Try to switch to 8k60 - BSOD on PC! Fault in Nvidia display module. I repeated this test with the power inserter on both the display and source sides, same result.

So my conclusions are 1. that the chipset doesn't support VRR 2. the Ruipro chipset does something my 3090 doesn't like at 8k? I wouldn't think it is excess power draw from the HDMI port as same issue with the power inserter used.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Balfazar said:


> Got the Gen3 Ruipro cable, testing with my 3090 and Samsung Q950T at 10m. Interesting but unsuccessful results:
> 
> 4k120 with Samsung Input Signal Plus aka HDMI Deep Colour - tick, working
> Try to enable Samsung Game Mode aka VRR - fail, lost signal. I repeated this test at resolutions down to 1080p60hz and same result.
> Try to switch to 8k60 - BSOD on PC! Fault in Nvidia display module. I repeated this test with the power inserter on both the display and source sides, same result.
> 
> So my conclusions are 1. that the chipset doesn't support VRR 2. the Ruipro chipset does something my 3090 doesn't like at 8k? I wouldn't think it is excess power draw from the HDMI port as same issue with the power inserter used.


Or, the Q950T is doing something. No cable mfr can test their cables against every model and brand of tv's so incompatibilities are still bound to happen. I know Ruipro tested the LG C9/CX and the 3080/3090s but I don't know if they were able to test the comparable Sony's and Samsung's. At this point in time, there is just no telling where the fault lies because the consumer doesn't know who supplied the HDMI 2.1 chipsets, how the device mfrs implemented the HDMI 2.1 option sets etc. HDMI is a "standard" only in the sense that the options sets have to be offered to claim HDMI 2.0/2.1 but not HOW those options are to be implemented. Sort of like how CEC was implemented across the various mfrs. It's going to be trial and error for quite some time for the gamers. Especially if your cable runs are longer than the 15' maximum for cables certified for HDMI 2.1.


----------



## Takster

Balfazar said:


> Got the Gen3 Ruipro cable


Can you please post the details printed on the cable such as the batch code (e.g 9X2BPF) and part numbers (SNA...). Thanks


----------



## Otto Pylot

Takster said:


> Can you please post the details printed on the cable such as the batch code (e.g 9X2BPF) and part numbers (SNA...). Thanks


This is from my other post regarding the current Ruipro product numbers:

*1. Regular 4K cable model number:

SNAOC20V102A_10* (10 is 10m)
This is the latest version and the most popular version.

Other 4k cables

*SNAOC20V201A*:
This is a different model that has same performance as the SNAOC20V102A, but has limited flexibility at the connector ends.
*SNAOC20V301D*:
This also has same performance as the SNAOC20V102A, but with D-Type HDMI plugs and with D-A adapters;

*2. Regular CL2 rated 4K cable model number:

SNAOC20V102A_UL_10* (10 is 10m)
This is the latest version.

*3. Regular 8K cable:

SNAOC21V101A_10* (10 is 10m)
This the latest version and is marked *RUIPRO8K GEN-3 *for better compatibility.

*4. Updated 4K cable model number: *

This is not an updated cable. It is a new design and will be available soon.
The new 4K cable which will have an embedded super optical engine. It will be ultra slim, thin, and has ultra tensile strength with better compression features.
The cable will be named *RUIPRO-X*, and the model number will be *SNACO20V10X_10* (10 is 10m).
However, the cable will have limited performance for ARC/e-ARC.


----------



## stuup1dmofo

I just received the Gen-3 Ruipro 10m cable and it works flawlessly with my RTX 3080 and LG C9. Running 4k 120 HDR 4:4:4 10bit like a champ with VRR (Gsync Compatible) enabled. Resident Evil 2 remake never looked so sharp and smooth.


----------



## Balfazar

Good stuff - will be interested to see as more results come in whether it works for Sony owners, and if it works at 8k60 also.

Gen3 cable details as requested:










Otto, I appreciate the truth in what you are saying. However given these difficulties, shouldn't there be a returns policy? A $300 USD lottery ticket doesn't seem like an acceptable business practice to me. Ruipro have asked me to test with a copper cable as they suspect incompatibility between TV and GPU, any recommendations on a certified 2.1 cable?


----------



## a-haanuk

stuup1dmofo said:


> I just received the Gen-3 Ruipro 10m cable and it works flawlessly with my RTX 3080 and LG C9. Running 4k 120 HDR 4:4:4 10bit like a champ with VRR (Gsync Compatible) enabled. Resident Evil 2 remake never looked so sharp and smooth.


great to hear, I should be getting some 20M cables on Thursday - hopefully I get the same results!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Balfazar said:


> Good stuff - will be interested to see as more results come in whether it works for Sony owners, and if it works at 8k60 also.
> 
> Gen3 cable details as requested:
> 
> View attachment 3052865
> 
> 
> Otto, I appreciate the truth in what you are saying. However given these difficulties, shouldn't there be a returns policy? A $300 USD lottery ticket doesn't seem like an acceptable business practice to me. Ruipro have asked me to test with a copper cable as they suspect incompatibility between TV and GPU, any recommendations on a certified 2.1 cable?


Not sure what you mean about the return policy. Ruipro has a very good return policy so I'm not sure about the $300 lottery ticket?

There won't be any HDMI 2.1 certified active hybrid cables. At least not certified by an ATC because active cables, of any kind, are not certifiable by HDMI.org. The only certified cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets will be passive (copper only) cables at 5m (15') maximum length. They will have a thicker wire gauge so flexibility will be reduced somewhat. If you have a tight space that may be an issue because you don't want to put any strain on the HDMI port. Currently, the only passive cables that I am aware of that are claiming certification are Zeskit, Belkin, and maybe AudioQuest. But I haven't seen any of them ship yet with a QR label so you might want to sit tight for another couple of weeks.


----------



## kidsney

Otto Pylot said:


> Not sure what you mean about the return policy. Ruipro has a very good return policy so I'm not sure about the $300 lottery ticket?
> 
> There won't be any HDMI 2.1 certified active hybrid cables. At least not certified by an ATC because active cables, of any kind, are not certifiable by HDMI.org. The only certified cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets will be passive (copper only) cables at 5m (15') maximum length. They will have a thicker wire gauge so flexibility will be reduced somewhat. If you have a tight space that may be an issue because you don't want to put any strain on the HDMI port. Currently, the only passive cables that I am aware of that are claiming certification are Zeskit, Belkin, and maybe AudioQuest. But I haven't seen any of them ship yet with a QR label so you might want to sit tight for another couple of weeks.


I bought a Ruipro 3gen cable after looking at your post.
I'm using 3080 gpu and I'm trying to connect to LG TV (65sm9000pua) with a 50 ft-long cable.
Is 4k 120hz possible without G-sync like CX?
It's being shipped from Hong Kong, and I'm worried it'll work properly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

kidsney said:


> I bought a Ruipro 3gen cable after looking at your post.
> I'm using 3080 gpu and I'm trying to connect to LG TV (65sm9000pua) with a 50 ft-long cable.
> Is 4k 120hz possible without G-sync like CX?
> It's being shipped from Hong Kong, and I'm worried it'll work properly.


50' is starting to get up there as far as length goes. I don't know if Ruipro tested their cables with that particular tv or not. No mfr can test against all the possibilities of devices. As far as your question about G-Sync and the 9000 I don't know. All you can do is try, and at 50', I hope you have easy access to your cabling and if not, you are using a conduit because it may end up being trial and error to find compatibility. Keep in mind that HDMI is not really an industry standard like ethernet is. It is a list of options that the mfr must show are compliant with any or all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets before they can claim HDMI 2.1. How they test for that, and implement those options sets, are up to the mfr.

*"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*


----------



## Jeff Saylor

Ordered the 40ft RUIPRO cable this morning. It’ll be here late next week or the following week. Will update once I test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jeff Saylor said:


> Ordered the 40ft RUIPRO cable this morning. It’ll be here late next week or the following week. Will update once I test.


Great! Let us know.


----------



## a-haanuk

RUIPRO GEN3 confirmed working flawlessly with C9 and W9


----------



## Otto Pylot

a-haanuk said:


> RUIPRO GEN3 confirmed working flawlessly with C9 and W9


Excellent. Thanks for posting back.


----------



## JayBrew

a-haanuk said:


> RUIPRO GEN3 confirmed working flawlessly with C9 and W9


Exciting to hear! My Gen 3 arrives tomorrow.


----------



## WhartoX

I got the GEN3 Ruipro cable 20 meter cable and it cannot do 4K120hz


----------



## Daytraders

Confused, aint there a 15 feet limit on 2.1 cables, because of the bandwidth they have to carry ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> I got the GEN3 Ruipro cable 20 meter cable and it cannot do 4K120hz


60' might be pushing it even for the Gen-3. What is your source and how do you have the cable installed? Did you test the cable before installing it (laying it out on the floor first for example)?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Daytraders said:


> Confused, aint there a 15 feet limit on 2.1 cables, because of the bandwidth they have to carry ?


Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (with the QR label) are passive only with a maximum length of 15' (3m). Active cables of any kind (copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber) can not be certified by an ATC because HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables. Certification just means that they have been tested by a standardized set of testing protocols (Authorized Testing Center, ATC) to meet all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets.

*"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*


----------



## WhartoX

Otto Pylot said:


> 60' might be pushing it even for the Gen-3. What is your source and how do you have the cable installed? Did you test the cable before installing it (laying it out on the floor first for example)?


RTX 3090 going to an LG C9.


----------



## Daytraders

Otto Pylot said:


> Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (with the QR label) are passive only with a maximum length of 15' (3m). Active cables of any kind (copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber) can not be certified by an ATC because HDMI.org does not allow for certification of active cables. Certification just means that they have been tested by a standardized set of testing protocols (Authorized Testing Center, ATC) to meet all of the HDMI 2.1 option sets.
> 
> *"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*


Ah i see, thx for info, so these are active then ? that mean they need a power supply, im new to this sorry.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Daytraders said:


> Ah i see, thx for info, so these are active then ? that mean they need a power supply, im new to this sorry.


Active cables draw their power from the sink end (HDMI port). The power draw is small, 50mA, but given the demands of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, current output fluctuations could affect signal continuity. A remedy for that is to use a power inserter, which is a small USB powered dongle between the HDMI port and the cable which supplies a constant 5v/500mA (usually) of current. It can help in some situations.


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> RTX 3090 going to an LG C9.


So, did you test the cable prior to installation and how is the cable installed? Hybrid fiber cables are very flexible but they can be easily damaged if you pull them by the connector ends. Hence the use of a conduit for in-wall installations.


----------



## HomieTheClown

So there are two people here who both have the 20M Gen 3 cable and one of them got it to work while the other guy (WhartoX) did not get it to work? If I read that correctly I wonder why one was successful over the other.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> So there are two people here who both have the 20M Gen 3 cable and one of them got it to work while the other guy (WhartoX) did not get it to work? If I read that correctly I wonder why one was successful over the other.


No cable mfr has a 100% success rate with any device mfr so there are always going to be outliers. It also depends on how the cable was installed. If the cable wasn't thoroughly tested before installation, then you don't know if something happened during the cable pull (if in-wall). Ya gotta remember that hybrid fiber cables are 4 glass optical fibers surrounded by 8, thin copper wires so a very sharp bend or a too-hard-of-a-pull on the connector end could damage something. 60' (20m) is still a long run even for hybrid fiber cables, and you still can't rule out the source as a contributing factor. After all, Ruipro had to re-design around a bug in the RTX's HDMI chipsets.


----------



## Brettcp

The 100ft Ruipro Gen 3 cable does *not *work with 4k @ 120hz between my RTX 3090 and 85" Sony X900H (with the latest firmware). This is similar behavior to what occured with the Gen 2 cable. The picture flickers and disconnects after a few seconds. It _does_ work for 4k @ 60hz.

Seems they're having trouble making this length of cable work for 4k @ 120hz. I sent them a video of the issue.

I have a 10ft Zeskit cable which does work for 4k @ 120hz with the same setup (RTX 3090 and X900H), so I know the GPU and TV are OK.


----------



## Otto Pylot

There is a HUGE difference between a passive cable that is apparently certified for HDMI 2.1 at 10' and an active hybrid fiber cable at 100' that can not be ATC certified. 100' is very long for any cable. You're comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## kekalot

following this as I need a 8m (25ft or so) cable for my CX and 3080


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> There is a HUGE difference between a passive cable that is apparently certified for HDMI 2.1 at 10' and an active hybrid fiber cable at 100' that can not be ATC certified. 100' is very long for any cable. You're comparing apples to oranges.


Clearly a significant difference between these two types of cables. Not comparing them at all, just pointing out the issue is neither with my RTX 3090 or my TV. The issue the cable. Seems they have some more work to do on these. Hope this helps somebody else in a similar spot.

After testing both their Gen 2 and Gen 3 cables without success, I'm putting this project on hold and will re-visit in a couple months to see if any progress has been made.


----------



## Daytraders

Otto Pylot said:


> Active cables draw their power from the sink end (HDMI port). The power draw is small, 50mA, but given the demands of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, current output fluctuations could affect signal continuity. A remedy for that is to use a power inserter, which is a small USB powered dongle between the HDMI port and the cable which supplies a constant 5v/500mA (usually) of current. It can help in some situations.


Thx again, and for the detailed reply, cheers, keep safe.


----------



## WhartoX

Otto Pylot said:


> So, did you test the cable prior to installation and how is the cable installed? Hybrid fiber cables are very flexible but they can be easily damaged if you pull them by the connector ends. Hence the use of a conduit for in-wall installations.


Yes tested it prior, it still does not work


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> Yes tested it prior, it still does not work


Then contact Ruipro again or look to another vendor. There are no 100% guarantees.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> Clearly a significant difference between these two types of cables. Not comparing them at all, just pointing out the issue is neither with my RTX 3090 or my TV. The issue the cable. Seems they have some more work to do on these. Hope this helps somebody else in a similar spot.
> 
> After testing both their Gen 2 and Gen 3 cables without success, I'm putting this project on hold and will re-visit in a couple months to see if any progress has been made.


I think you'd be much happier in the long run if you could shorten your run somewhat. 100' is really pushing it for any cable. Did you try the voltage inserter at the sink end to see if that helped? That's why they are included. Did you test the cables prior to installation to see if they worked? Are you using a conduit at 100' or do you have easy access to your cabling?


----------



## WhartoX

I just tried the GEN3 fiber cable on my LG B9 with the voltage inserter at the GPU side and it actually worked at 4K120hz 12 bit color with no dropouts at all. Wow. The C9 is the TV that it does not work with the cable at all and the C9 is the TV that needs the cable since its on another floor. Ill keep testing.


----------



## WhartoX

Good news. I finally got he Ruipro 60 foot cable working with 4K120hz 12-bit color with G-Sync working flawlessly with my LG C9. The issue was my RTX 3090, I tried another HDMI port on the card (It has 2) and that works. Thank all of you for your help and information.


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> Good news. I finally got he Ruipro 60 foot cable working with 4K120hz 12-bit color with G-Sync working flawlessly with my LG C9. The issue was my RTX 3090, I tried another HDMI port on the card (It has 2) and that works. Thank all of you for your help and information.


Excellent. So it sounds like the HDMI bug in the 3090 chipset is still there. Doesn't say much for Nvidia's QA/QC if they have performance issues between HDMI ports on the same card, unless there is an un-documented difference between the two.


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> I think you'd be much happier in the long run if you could shorten your run somewhat. 100' is really pushing it for any cable. Did you try the voltage inserter at the sink end to see if that helped? That's why they are included. Did you test the cables prior to installation to see if they worked? Are you using a conduit at 100' or do you have easy access to your cabling?


I did, unfortunately no difference with the voltage inserter. I hadn't run the cables through the wall yet, just tested across the floor first (with no significant bends in the cable as I know its delicate), and glad I did. I could get away with their 85ft cable, but I doubt that's going to solve the issue. I've let Ruipro know and will share any feedback I get from them.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> I did, unfortunately no difference with the voltage inserter. I hadn't run the cables through the wall yet, just tested across the floor first (with no significant bends in the cable as I know its delicate), and glad I did. I could get away with their 85ft cable, but I doubt that's going to solve the issue. I've let Ruipro know and will share any feedback I get from them.


Well, it sounds like you're doing everything you can. What is really discouraging to me, and I just posted this in another thread, is that it would have been nice if the device mfrs had worked more closely with the cable mfrs with regards to distance and implementation of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. HDMI is not a standard, but a list of options that must be offered, and verified to work before any claims of HDMI 2.1 compatibility can be made. HDMI does not dictate how those option sets are to be implemented, so there is going to be some variability across the devices. The cable mfrs, on the other hand, are always playing catch up by trying to overcome these hurdles. The device mfr's just want to sell their product and leave the compatibility and connectivity up to someone else. That's one of the big reason why UHS HDMI cable certification, at least by an ATC, is limited to passive cables no longer than 15'. HDMI.org knew that there were going to be issues at longer distances for some of the option sets. Another reason why active cables in general can not be certified by an ATC, for any HDMI version number. Gamers are getting screwed in general if their distances are longer than 15'. Especially the folks at 30' and longer.


----------



## elli0t

WhartoX said:


> Good news. I finally got he Ruipro 60 foot cable working with 4K120hz 12-bit color with G-Sync working flawlessly with my LG C9. The issue was my RTX 3090, I tried another HDMI port on the card (It has 2) and that works. Thank all of you for your help and information.


Hi, did you get this working with or without the voltage inserter? Also, is this the inserter you used? I'm not sure if it's the same inserter they include with the 8K cable? It only says it's compliant with HDMI2.0 18Gbps: RUIPRO USB Powered Mini Desgined HDMI A-Type Voltage Inserter, Black (USB Cable L: 20 inch): Amazon.com.au: Electronics

I currently have the Cruxtec HS8K-20-SV HDMI 2.1 20m cable and LG C9 65" and MSI RTX 3080 Gaming X Trio and it's not working at 4K120Hz. I also have a Zeskit 5m cable on the way to try. I'm wondering if the voltage inserter I linked above would help. Also wondering if it is safe to have a voltage inserter at both the GPU and TV end? Would this be beneficial at all or damage anything? 


Thanks in advance


----------



## Otto Pylot

elli0t said:


> Hi, did you get this working with or without the voltage inserter? Also, is this the inserter you used? I'm not sure if it's the same inserter they include with the 8K cable? It only says it's compliant with HDMI2.0 18Gbps: RUIPRO USB Powered Mini Desgined HDMI A-Type Voltage Inserter, Black (USB Cable L: 20 inch): Amazon.com.au: Electronics
> 
> I currently have the Cruxtec HS8K-20-SV HDMI 2.1 20m cable and LG C9 65" and MSI RTX 3080 Gaming X Trio and it's not working at 4K120Hz. I also have a Zeskit 5m cable on the way to try. I'm wondering if the voltage inserter I linked above would help. Also wondering if it is safe to have a voltage inserter at both the GPU and TV end? Would this be beneficial at all or damage anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


Voltage inserters only work on active cables. Passive cables don't need the extra boost because of their cable length. The cable you refer to is all marketing hype. The clue is that they are marketing the cable as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". There is no such thing. And from what I've seen Googling the cable, they just claim 8k @60Hz. That's fine but there aren't any panels that can do 8k at present.

60' (20m) is going to be difficult for any cable.

If your cable length is under 15', then go with the passive Zeskit cable, but make sure you get the cable with the QR label of authenticity. Otherwise, their claims, at present, of certified HDMI 2.1 are suspect.


----------



## TheFilmFanatic

ARROW-AV said:


> *HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 48 GBPS & HDMI 2.1*​
> 
> HDMI version 2.0b, which is the pre-existing industry standard, requires 18 Gbps video bandwidth support.
> 
> HDMI version 2.1 is the new industry standard, and this requires 48 Gbps video bandwidth support.
> 
> The shorter length cables, as per with respect to the existing HDMI 2.0b cables, will benefit from official testing and certification (see HERE for details: *https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/premiumcable/faq.aspx*)
> 
> Consequently, when purchasing shorter length HDMI 2.0b cables you want to look out for the official certifcation stamp, namely THIS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Due to the existance of the official testing and certification of the shorter length cables there is no need for me to carry out additional testing with respect to these cables, and so it is only regarding the cables that fall outside of this, namely the longer length cables, wherein testing is necessary. Because, for reasons unknown there is currently no such official testing and certification with respect to the longer length cables, which use ACTIVE as opposed to PASSIVE type cable technology.
> 
> Because of the absence of reliability regarding longer length HDMI cables which properly pass the 18 Gbps necessary to support and work with HDMI 2.0b video, I previously carried out a comprehensive evaluation and analysis of which cables do and which do not in reality actually do so; which you can find HERE: *TEST REPORTS | HDMI CABLES WHICH PROPERLY AND RELIABLY SUPPORT 18GBPS & HDMI 2.0b*
> 
> Now that HDMI 2.1 is here, and because as per previously the expectation is that similarly the official testing and certification will apply only to the shorter length cables, it is time to focus on which HDMI cables that both offer longer length cables and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwidth and HDMI 2.1, actually do so; and which do not.
> 
> Given the horrendous performance track record of longer length 18 Gbps HDMI v2.0b cables it will be interesting to see how many of the new longer length HDMI v2.1 cables actually deliver on their marketing claims.
> 
> *As per previously, I will be compiling a list of cables that both offer longer length cables and claim to support 48 GBPS video bandwidth and HDMI 2.1, which I will subequently carry out an evaluation and testing exercise so as to confirm which cables in reality actually do and which do not. Please feel free to post cables that fit this criteria and I will add these to the list.*
> 
> This thread is for discussing all HDMI v2.1 cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1, not just the longer length cables. However, as far as which cables I will be including within my initial evaluation and testing exercise, for the reasons that I have already explained, this will be focusing on the longer length cables. If for whatever reason there is a subset of shorter length cables that fall outside of the official certification and testing, and as such also require testing then I will test these as well.
> 
> 😉


I was going to buy Monoprice 48G hdmi cable from amazon but wanna sew what you guys think. I’m gong atraight from the Series X into any hdmi port ( idk if one better than others), then using a game headset for sound. Any verifiable on quality for using auto low latency mode and 4K/120.

Monoprice Ultra 8K High Speed HDMI Cable - 6 Feet - Black, 48Gbps, 8K, Dynamic HDR, eARC - DynamicView Series https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WNM2NJ5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_51mPFbFJG60TT?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## WhartoX

elli0t said:


> Hi, did you get this working with or without the voltage inserter? Also, is this the inserter you used? I'm not sure if it's the same inserter they include with the 8K cable? It only says it's compliant with HDMI2.0 18Gbps: RUIPRO USB Powered Mini Desgined HDMI A-Type Voltage Inserter, Black (USB Cable L: 20 inch): Amazon.com.au: Electronics
> 
> I currently have the Cruxtec HS8K-20-SV HDMI 2.1 20m cable and LG C9 65" and MSI RTX 3080 Gaming X Trio and it's not working at 4K120Hz. I also have a Zeskit 5m cable on the way to try. I'm wondering if the voltage inserter I linked above would help. Also wondering if it is safe to have a voltage inserter at both the GPU and TV end? Would this be beneficial at all or damage anything?
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance


No the USB power inserter didn't help me, it's not needed but your mileage may vary


----------



## elli0t

Otto Pylot said:


> Voltage inserters only work on active cables. Passive cables don't need the extra boost because of their cable length. The cable you refer to is all marketing hype. The clue is that they are marketing the cable as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". There is no such thing. And from what I've seen Googling the cable, they just claim 8k @60Hz. That's fine but there aren't any panels that can do 8k at present.
> 
> 60' (20m) is going to be difficult for any cable.
> 
> If your cable length is under 15', then go with the passive Zeskit cable, but make sure you get the cable with the QR label of authenticity. Otherwise, their claims, at present, of certified HDMI 2.1 are suspect.


Thanks for the response. I guess what they're indicating by calling it a "HDMI 2.1" cable is that they've tested it to work at 48gbps? I ordered this cable which is 16ft/5m as I'd read in this thread that someone had it working with the LG C9. Fingers crossed that it works as going down to 3m length isn't really an option for me.. Is the Cruxtec fiber cable I have active or passive? Ok so it's active as it's directional. I've bought 2 of the voltage inserters to try. Do you know if it will cause any damage using them at both ends?


----------



## elli0t

WhartoX said:


> No the USB power inserter didn't help me, it's not needed but your mileage may vary


No worries, thanks for the reply. I've ordered 2 of them to test with my Cruxtec fiber cable anyway.


----------



## elli0t

This is the response I got from Cruxtec/Hoyun about my cable if anyone is interested.



> Dear Customer,
> 
> So far we received the response from the manufactory, most likely your TV HDMI2.1 port circuit board's design's problem. not only on your LG, also the Samsung!
> 
> We suggest you purchase the short normal copper HDMI2.1 cable to solve your problem. Our new normal copper HDMI2.1 cables are landing within 2 weeks.
> 
> Each of our HDMI2.1 fiber optic cables has passed strict testing and QC.
> 
> The test report as below! And the factory will provide the test report with the library result within 5days if you want to check it.
> 
> The VGA card tested in the factory is 3090, and the TV is a new 8K60Hz version of TCL and Samsung. There is no problem testing 8K60HZ.
> 
> In the current test, the possible problem lies in the impact of HDMI2.1 voltage and current. For example, Samsung's 8K60HZ machine cannot actually reach the true 8K60HZ. Between 8K30HZ and 8K60HZ, Samsung's HDMI2.1 interface is unstable.
> 
> We also tested under the 3D 120HZ model, we found that the voltage and current will affect the transmission interference of the line.
> 
> *Comparison between HDMI2.1 short copper cable and HDMI2.1 optical fiber long cable:*
> 
> 1.The HDMI2.1 cooper cable cannot exceed 3 meters. 8K and HD transmission of HDMI 2.1 will have an impact on copper cable over 3 meters. Until now, optical fiber is the only solution to supplement the 8K long distance transmission, so the long length 8K cables on the market are all optical fiber.
> 
> 2.The receiving and transmitting connectors of the optical fiber cable are equipped with a driver chip, which is driven by the current from the HDMI interface of the device (graphic card, TV). In particular, HDMI2.1 products was slowly developed since 2019. Like the development of TYPE-C interfaces, the HDMI2.1 parameters of the host side (computer, graphics card, TV, etc.) of different device manufacturers are not exactly the same.
> 
> 3.The cable has optical fiber wire inside, so be careful not to fold it.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Warranty Team
> 
> Hoyun Pty Ltd


----------



## JayBrew

Received my 10m Gen3 Ruipro cable and its working flawlessly with the 3090 and C9.


----------



## elli0t

JayBrew said:


> Received my 10m Gen3 Ruipro cable and its working flawlessly with the 3090 and C9.


Good to hear! I'm assuming 4K 120hz 12bit? What model 3090 are you using? And what manufacture date and firmware is your C9?


----------



## TheFilmFanatic

So can anyone suggest a few 3-10 foot hdmi 2.1 cable from Amazon? Want ALLM and verified 4K/120 frame rates?


----------



## JayBrew

elli0t said:


> Good to hear! I'm assuming 4K 120hz 12bit? What model 3090 are you using? And what manufacture date and firmware is your C9?


Yes... 4k/120/12bit. 3090 FE with the C9 on 5.00.03 and a manufacture date of 8/2019


----------



## Daytraders

JayBrew said:


> Yes... 4k/120/12bit. 3090 FE with the C9 on 5.00.03 and a manufacture date of 8/2019


With HDR also ? thx


----------



## Otto Pylot

elli0t said:


> Thanks for the response. I guess what they're indicating by calling it a "HDMI 2.1" cable is that they've tested it to work at 48gbps? I ordered this cable which is 16ft/5m as I'd read in this thread that someone had it working with the LG C9. Fingers crossed that it works as going down to 3m length isn't really an option for me.. Is the Cruxtec fiber cable I have active or passive? Ok so it's active as it's directional. I've bought 2 of the voltage inserters to try. Do you know if it will cause any damage using them at both ends?


48Gbps is just one option of the HDMI 2.1 options sets. There is no way for the consumer at this point in time to verify that because there isn't any source material that requires the full bandwidth of HDMI 2.1. Your link didn't work so I can't see what that cable is. I don't see how you could damage an HDMI port by using the voltage inserters at both ends but I would be apprehensive about doing that. Remember, 4k HDR is really finicky with its connections so you don't want to use any wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc because that can, and does in a lot of cases, interrupt the signal path. Some have said that using a voltage inserter may affect pq but I never saw any in my tests but I only tested one port at a time. The use of a voltage inserter is not a guarantee that it will correct any issues. It's just an option that may work. For me, the use of a voltage inserter had not effect on anything.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TheFilmFanatic said:


> So can anyone suggest a few 3-10 foot hdmi 2.1 cable from Amazon? Want ALLM and verified 4K/120 frame rates?


No such thing as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". There are some certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables coming to market very soon. Zeskit and Belkin are marketing some now but they don't have the QR label of authenticity so until they come with the label on the packaging, I'd wait. They will be passive and up to a 15' maximum length. Amazon is just a reseller who doesn't always check the mfrs claims so caveat emptor.


----------



## Otto Pylot

JayBrew said:


> Received my 10m Gen3 Ruipro cable and its working flawlessly with the 3090 and C9.


Excellent! Thanks for posting.


----------



## HomieTheClown

Thanks Otto for relaying information and keeping the discussion going. I'm personally waiting for a 12m or 40 feet cable that is reliable enough to work. Also thank you to everyone is basically being a beta tester and letting us know the results. I hope we can all have a good idea in a couple months of what works for long distances over 15'.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Thanks Otto for relaying information and keeping the discussion going. I'm personally waiting for a 12m or 40 feet cable that is reliable enough to work. Also thank you to everyone is basically being a beta tester and letting us know the results. I hope we can all have a good idea in a couple months of what works for long distances over 15'.


I think cable reliability will get better in the next 6 months or so (hopefully sooner) once the device mfrs start working a bit more closely with cable mfrs and the issues of buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets, distance, etc get worked out. That being said, until there is a break in the active cable technology, cable distance will always be the achilles heel for HDMI 2.1 over about 30'. Once 12-bit panels are commonplace, and source material is created for a much broader market than just the gamers, then you'll see a more aggressive approach to connectivity. To repeat myself, again  , video technology will always outpace connection technology, so the cable mfrs will always be playing catch up.


----------



## JayBrew

Daytraders said:


> With HDR also ? thx


Yes


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. So it sounds like the HDMI bug in the 3090 chipset is still there. Doesn't say much for Nvidia's QA/QC if they have performance issues between HDMI ports on the same card, unless there is an un-documented difference between the two.


I think he has the Asus card with 2xHDMI 2.1 ports. I would put my money on HDMI port in-line with display ports as working, and the one added by ASUS in the air vent row failed.

If this is true, all default Nvidia ports should be fine. Just beware to not use the ASUS HDMi 2.1 port.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> I think he has the Asus card with 2xHDMI 2.1 ports. I would put my money on HDMI port in-line with display ports as working, and the one added by ASUS in the air vent row failed.
> 
> If this is true, all default Nvidia ports should be fine. Just beware to not use the ASUS HDMi 2.1 port.


I think somebody posted that the Asus card is the only one with 2, HDMI 2.1 ports so it's hard to say what is going on. I'm not a gamer so I have no experience with any of the GPUs, just the HDMI cables. Sure hope what ever the issues are they can be corrected so the gamers can start to enjoy the new GPUs and continue to beta test for the rest of us.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> I think somebody posted that the Asus card is the only one with 2, HDMI 2.1 ports so it's hard to say what is going on.


Correct. And furthermore, the second HDMI 2.1 port is shared with a display port. So, it doesn't work if they already have something plugged into the Displayport it shares the output with.

I am waiting for reviews on Radeon cards, and will buy whichever is better value.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Correct. And furthermore, the second HDMI 2.1 port is shared with a display port. So, it doesn't work if they already have something plugged into the Displayport it shares the output with.
> 
> I am waiting for reviews on Radeon cards, and will buy whichever is better value.


Interesting about the shared port. Doesn't seem like a very good design decision.


----------



## gbynum

I know NOTHING, but think about the devices with 2 HDMI outputs, one with 4k(whatever) and one audio (only/mostly(?)) MAYBE that is the case here?


----------



## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> I know NOTHING, but think about the devices with 2 HDMI outputs, one with 4k(whatever) and one audio (only/mostly(?)) MAYBE that is the case here?


I guess we need to hear back from someone who is actually using one. Curious minds want to know  .


----------



## provenflipper

TheFilmFanatic said:


> So can anyone suggest a few 3-10 foot hdmi 2.1 cable from Amazon? Want ALLM and verified 4K/120 frame rates?


If you need a cable right now, I would recommend the Zeskit 8K cables. I’m using 2 of their 5m cables right now and they’re working great. 

I’m running the 4’ Monoprice 8K cables from the receiver (x4700h) to my devices and they pass the bandwidth tests. I’m not expecting to have any issues with them due to the length of the cables. 

I’ll know a little more on Tuesday when I can get the XSX running on the Sony 900H.


----------



## viiv

Hey you guys. I was just in Tokyo and impulse purchased this Sony 2 meter long HDMI cable I saw in a store they had on sale:









DLC-HX10XF/DLC-HX15XF... | AVケーブル | ソニー


ソニー　AVケーブル　公式ウェブサイト。AVケーブルDLC-HX10XF/DLC-HX15XF...の商品ページです。



www.sony.jp





I saw the HDMI Premium certification and thought that meant the new Ultra High Speed 48Gbps spec but I guess I was wrong. Now I am back home in Canada, looking it up on the Sony website only states 18Gbps and only mentions 4k60p 

But seeing the post by ARROW-AV at the beginning of this thread, because it carries the Premium Certification even though it is a 18Gbps cable, does that mean it can actually handle 48Gbps? Are all Premium Certified cables unofficially 48Gbps 4k120p spec cables or am I just really confused?


----------



## Jeff Saylor

provenflipper said:


> If you need a cable right now, I would recommend the Zeskit 8K cables. I’m using 2 of their 5m cables right now and they’re working great.
> 
> I’m running the 4’ Monoprice 8K cables from the receiver (x4700h) to my devices and they pass the bandwidth tests. I’m not expecting to have any issues with them due to the length of the cables.
> 
> I’ll know a little more on Tuesday when I can get the XSX running on the Sony 900H.


i just received the mono price slimline 30ft cable and it did not work for basic 4K 120hz with the 3080 and LGC9 on latest firmware.


Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] Dynamic HDR 48Gbps Fiber Optic eARC AOC YCbCr 4:4:4 30ft Black (138627) Monoprice SlimRun AV Dynamic HDR Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] Dynamic HDR 48Gbps Fiber Optic eARC AOC YCbCr 4:4:4 30ft Black (138627): Amazon.ca: Electronics


----------



## alebonau

viiv said:


> But seeing the post by ARROW-AV at the beginning of this thread, because it carries the Premium Certification even though it is a 18Gbps cable, does that mean it can actually handle 48Gbps? Are all Premium Certified cables unofficially 48Gbps 4k120p spec cables or am I just really confused?


the certification is for 18gbps premium certified cable - which is a high speed cable - see cable types,






HDMI Cables - Different Cable Types


HDMI cable overview with the different HDMI cable types, their port capabilities, and how to tell the HDMI connector types apart. HDMI 2.1a




hdmi.org





and the label showing certification for high speed cable









for 48gbps you need ultra high speed cable see below,






Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps


Looking for a high speed HDMI cable? ✓ Click here to learn about high speed vs ultra high speed HDMI cable specifications & certification program compliance! HDMI 2.1a




hdmi.org





as per the link below is the certification/label would expect to see with ability to authenticate, I am not sure any cables of this type exist at this point... certainly not seen any reported...


----------



## Otto Pylot

viiv said:


> Hey you guys. I was just in Tokyo and impulse purchased this Sony 2 meter long HDMI cable I saw in a store they had on sale:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DLC-HX10XF/DLC-HX15XF... | AVケーブル | ソニー
> 
> 
> ソニー　AVケーブル　公式ウェブサイト。AVケーブルDLC-HX10XF/DLC-HX15XF...の商品ページです。
> 
> 
> 
> www.sony.jp
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw the HDMI Premium certification and thought that meant the new Ultra High Speed 48Gbps spec but I guess I was wrong. Now I am back home in Canada, looking it up on the Sony website only states 18Gbps and only mentions 4k60p
> 
> But seeing the post by ARROW-AV at the beginning of this thread, because it carries the Premium Certification even though it is a 18Gbps cable, does that mean it can actually handle 48Gbps? Are all Premium Certified cables unofficially 48Gbps 4k120p spec cables or am I just really confused?


As mentioned, that's a passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cable that has been certified for the HDMI 2.0 options. The cable may be able to transmit at a bit higher than 18Gbps but it's only certified to 18Gbps. For HDMI 2.0, that's fine. For HDMI 2.1, no.

Once available, cables that have been certified for the HDMI 2.1 options will be labeled as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables and will come with a QR label of authenticity, just like the PHS HDMI cables do now. The cables will be passive, have a thicker wire gauge and certified up to 15' maximum. Zeskit is selling UHS HDMI cables now but they do not have the QR label affixed yet. They are supposed to get the labels by the end of November and will start labeling the packaging with them.


----------



## papadon69

Hi all, just thought I'd pitch in to let you know that RUIPRO has indicated they are having compatability issues with their 8K Fiber HDMI cables. I ordered one and they got in touch with me, as follows:

Dear Michael,
Thank you for your interest in our cable first.
Our 8K cable still have some compatibility issues now. These known issues will take about 5 days to resolve.
If you don't want to wait, we can cancel the order for you.
Looking forward to your reply
Mandy H
Best Regards
RUIPRO SERVICE TEAM 

I've asked them what the issues are and how they will resolve them in 5 days, so hopefully I get something back from them. This could mean that these cables will work properly by next week...but who knows. I'll post up when I hear back.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I do know that Ruipro is almost working 24x7 on the compatibility issues so at least they are trying their hardest to take care of their customer base.


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> I do know that Ruipro is almost working 24x7 on the compatibility issues so at least they are trying their hardest to take care of their customer base.


Agreed, they are definitely working on these issues and their communication has been top notch. After I reported their Gen 3 100ft cable did not work at 4k @ 120hz they promised to send me yet another cable very soon (they claim "this week"). We'll see!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> Agreed, they are definitely working on these issues and their communication has been top notch. After I reported their Gen 3 100ft cable did not work at 4k @ 120hz they promised to send me yet another cable very soon (they claim "this week"). We'll see!


Good luck. As I've been saying, 100' is VERY long for any cable in a consumer setting so I really hope it works out for you and is reliable over time.


----------



## HyperNeon

Just want to let you all know that I received my Gen 3 Ruipro cables yesterday (2 days early from Hong Kong!) and everything is working great between my Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 3080 and LG OLED65CXAUA. I have both the 10M and 15M Gen 3 cables and I confirmed that they are both passing full 4K/120FPS/10bit/RGB/HDR/VRR/Atmos (we're living in the future!). I also confirmed that both cables are working well passing Dolby Atmos passthrough via eARC back to my Denon X3700H, although I do sometimes have to power cycle the TV because the audio will bug out when I change audio formats on the PC.

After testing playing games, running benchmarks, and watching various content for several hours with no issues, I ran the 15M cable through the wall. For me, that's the final test since I have a lot of relatively tight twists and turns and not every cable has survived the journey in the past (it's why I almost only use Ruipro nowadays). Thankfully, this one seems to still be performing wonderfully so I'm feeling pretty good about the quality and state of their cable at the moment. I saw some comments about them still possibly iterating on these, so I hope I won't be eating my words in a few weeks, but at least for now all seems well. I have my PS5 and XSX arriving this week so that will probably be the last bit of reassurance I need for the foreseeable future.

One additional note: My CX WILL NOT accept RGB/10Bit/4K/120 on HDMI Port 1 for some reason. The only way I can even get 4K/120 at all is to drop all the way down to 8Bit/420. It's obviously a defective port on this brand new TV, but it took me HOURS to figure out that was the issue so if you're trying different cables and not having any success, make sure to try another port.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I am NOT using the power inserters and everything seems to be working fine


----------



## Otto Pylot

HyperNeon said:


> Just want to let you all know that I received my Gen 3 Ruipro cables yesterday (2 days early from Hong Kong!) and everything is working great between my Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 3080 and LG OLED65CXAUA. I have both the 10M and 15M Gen 3 cables and I confirmed that they are both passing full 4K/120FPS/10bit/RGB/HDR/VRR/Atmos (we're living in the future!). I also confirmed that both cables are working well passing Dolby Atmos passthrough via eARC back to my Denon X3700H, although I do sometimes have to power cycle the TV because the audio will bug out when I change audio formats on the PC.
> 
> After testing playing games, running benchmarks, and watching various content for several hours with no issues, I ran the 15M cable through the wall. For me, that's the final test since I have a lot of relatively tight twists and turns and not every cable has survived the journey in the past (it's why I almost only use Ruipro nowadays). Thankfully, this one seems to still be performing wonderfully so I'm feeling pretty good about the quality and state of their cable at the moment. I saw some comments about them still possibly iterating on these, so I hope I won't be eating my words in a few weeks, but at least for now all seems well. I have my PS5 and XSX arriving this week so that will probably be the last bit of reassurance I need for the foreseeable future.
> 
> One additional note: My CX WILL NOT accept RGB/10Bit/4K/120 on HDMI Port 1 for some reason. The only way I can even get 4K/120 at all is to drop all the way down to 8Bit/420. It's obviously a defective port on this brand new TV, but it took me HOURS to figure out that was the issue so if you're trying different cables and not having any success, make sure to try another port.


Thanks for the report. Good information.


----------



## christofin

UPDATE: Ruipro Gen 3 version works at the full bandwidth with my LG C9! I ordered the 12m cable. Haven't tested Gsync or reliability yet but the first results are promising.


----------



## Alpha Keskin

HyperNeon said:


> Just want to let you all know that I received my Gen 3 Ruipro cables yesterday (2 days early from Hong Kong!) and everything is working great between my Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 3080 and LG OLED65CXAUA. I have both the 10M and 15M Gen 3 cables and I confirmed that they are both passing full 4K/120FPS/10bit/RGB/HDR/VRR/Atmos (we're living in the future!). I also confirmed that both cables are working well passing Dolby Atmos passthrough via eARC back to my Denon X3700H, although I do sometimes have to power cycle the TV because the audio will bug out when I change audio formats on the PC.
> 
> After testing playing games, running benchmarks, and watching various content for several hours with no issues, I ran the 15M cable through the wall. For me, that's the final test since I have a lot of relatively tight twists and turns and not every cable has survived the journey in the past (it's why I almost only use Ruipro nowadays). Thankfully, this one seems to still be performing wonderfully so I'm feeling pretty good about the quality and state of their cable at the moment. I saw some comments about them still possibly iterating on these, so I hope I won't be eating my words in a few weeks, but at least for now all seems well. I have my PS5 and XSX arriving this week so that will probably be the last bit of reassurance I need for the foreseeable future.
> 
> One additional note: My CX WILL NOT accept RGB/10Bit/4K/120 on HDMI Port 1 for some reason. The only way I can even get 4K/120 at all is to drop all the way down to 8Bit/420. It's obviously a defective port on this brand new TV, but it took me HOURS to figure out that was the issue so if you're trying different cables and not having any success, make sure to try another port.


Try to turn off instant Response on the Hdmi port connected to receiver for earc This fixed the pc sound bugging out for me on the Marantz.Maybe different on yours but worth a shot


----------



## Bacongineer

I just received my Ruipro Gen 3 cable (15M) and it does NOT work with my RTX 3080 FE and LG C9. Tried the power inserter on both ends, even tried one on each end. Tried every HDMI port on my TV. The cable was laid on the ground with as little bending as possible.

EDIT: It works for 2.0b resolutions.


----------



## willl03

Bacongineer said:


> I just received my Ruipro Gen 3 cable (15M) and it does NOT work with my RTX 3080 FE and LG C9. Tried the power inserter on both ends, even tried one on each end. Tried every HDMI port on my TV. The cable was laid on the ground with as little bending as possible.


That's unfortunate :/ does it work at lower resolutions or color formats?


----------



## Bacongineer

willl03 said:


> That's unfortunate :/ does it work at lower resolutions or color formats?


Oh yes I should've mentioned that. It does work with everything below HDMI 2.1, so 4K 60Hz RGB 8-bit, but nothing more than that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bacongineer said:


> I just received my Ruipro Gen 3 cable (15M) and it does NOT work with my RTX 3080 FE and LG C9. Tried the power inserter on both ends, even tried one on each end. Tried every HDMI port on my TV. The cable was laid on the ground with as little bending as possible.


The Gen-3 cables were tested, and updated, to work with the 3080's and C9's. It's easy to blame the cable mfr but it is possible that there are still 3080s/3090s out there with the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets that still don't play nicely with the modifications that Ruipro has done to their 8k hybrid fiber cables. They are still working on modifications to improve compatibility but it's an uphill battle until the device mfrs work more closely with the cable engineers and not just supply them with the GUPs and say, "here, you work it out". And it could very well be that active, hybrid fiber cables are just not there yet to work over distance and HDMI 2.1. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so for the gamers, patience and trial and error is the name of the game.


----------



## Bacongineer

Otto Pylot said:


> The Gen-3 cables were tested, and updated, to work with the 3080's and C9's. It's easy to blame the cable mfr but it is possible that there are still 3080s/3090s out there with the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets that still don't play nicely with the modifications that Ruipro has done to their 8k hybrid fiber cables. They are still working on modifications to improve compatibility but it's an uphill battle until the device mfrs work more closely with the cable engineers and not just supply them with the GUPs and say, "here, you work it out". And it could very well be that active, hybrid fiber cables are just not there yet to work over distance and HDMI 2.1. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so for the gamers, patience and trial and error is the name of the game.


As far as I know, only the new 2020 AV receivers have been found to have a buggy HDMI 2.1 chipset (Panasonic). They used the new NVIDIA Ampere cards and a Xbox Series X as sources devices to test the AVR, but nothing indicate that the problem is from these sources, rather the problem lies within the AVRs.

This comment from earlier by papadon seems to indicate that Ruipro is aware that their cables still have issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bacongineer said:


> As far as I know, only the new 2020 AV receivers have been found to have a buggy HDMI 2.1 chipset (Panasonic). They used the new NVIDIA Ampere cards and a Xbox Series X as sources devices to test the AVR, but nothing indicate that the problem is from these sources, rather the problem lies within the AVRs.
> 
> This comment from earlier by papadon seems to indicate that Ruipro is aware that their cables still have issues.


Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha were listed in the original German report as having the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets. They weren't sure about the XBox yet (as they hadn't been thoroughly tested for it) and the new PS5 may have some option sets that aren't available, yet. And yes, Ruipro has been very aware of the issues, and are actively trying to work them out, but they weren't able to take delivery of the first shipping units of the Nvidia GPUs until late October, when they started testing their cables with them (and the C9s/CXs).


----------



## eric.exe

Have there been any tests of 1-3 foot HDMI 2.1 extensions/dongles? With the possibility of two HDMI 2.1 consoles and a PC, it would be helpful to have a 40/48gbps capable dongle run from the lone 2.1 port of my receiver to the front for quick cable switching.

Like this one? Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K High Speed HDMI Extension Cable, 48Gbps, 8K, Dynamic HDR, eARC, 1ft Black - Monoprice.com

Or since the distance is so short, maybe a newer cable won't be needed?


----------



## Otto Pylot

eric.exe said:


> Have there been any tests of 1-3 foot HDMI 2.1 extensions/dongles? With the possibility of two HDMI 2.1 consoles and a PC, it would be helpful to have a 40/48gbps capable dongle run from the lone 2.1 port of my receiver to the front for quick cable switching. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PDFBHHH/
> 
> Or since the distance is so short, maybe a newer cable won't be needed?


Those are passive cables and are really meant for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. The cables have been tested "up to" 22GBPs but expecting them to work with 40/48Gbps is not a good assumption. Besides, daisy chaining cables, even passive ones, is not really a good idea for the higher bandwidths because you are introducing a "break" in the signal path. You would be best off to use Zeskit's UHS HDMI cables, once they get the certification QR labels, so you could run a singe cable, source to sink.

If you have a single HDMI 2.1 port on your tv, how are you planning on alternating between two different HDMI 2.1 consoles? Physically disconnecting one cable to switch to another?


----------



## eric.exe

Otto Pylot said:


> Those are passive cables and are really meant for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. The cables have been tested "up to" 22GBPs but expecting them to work with 40/48Gbps is not a good assumption. Besides, daisy chaining cables, even passive ones, is not really a good idea for the higher bandwidths because you are introducing a "break" in the signal path. You would be best off to use Zeskit's UHS HDMI cables, once they get the certification QR labels, so you could run a singe cable, source to sink.
> 
> If you have a single HDMI 2.1 port on your tv, how are you planning on alternating between two different HDMI 2.1 consoles? Physically disconnecting one cable to switch to another?


Yep, physically switching as a quick n' dirty solution until something better comes around. Looks like the Amazon reviews of the Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K says they fail to pass 40gbps, so no go there.

I already have the 16ft Zeskit UHS cable, just wanted something to make switching easier at the receiver 2.1 port.


----------



## alebonau

eric.exe said:


> Yep, physically switching as a quick n' dirty solution until something better comes around. Looks like the Amazon reviews of the Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K says they fail to pass 40gbps, so no go there.


Not sure I’d recommend physically switching. Especially with arc /earc and all cables tend to stay live. It’s asking for trouble the one time hot swap without realising and fry hdmi board ...


----------



## alebonau

eric.exe said:


> I already have the 16ft Zeskit UHS cable, just wanted something to make switching easier at the receiver 2.1 port.


better to run all 2.1 source direct to tv and earc full bandwidth audio back to the receiver ...ie hook up one lead earc on tv back to avr


----------



## Otto Pylot

@eric.exe I agree with @alebonau and his suggestion. Hot plugging/unplugging HDMI cables is never a good idea. Just the physical act of moving the HDMI cable in and out of the port is not good for the port/cable but you also may have static electricity issues that could damage the HDMI ports. Using a physical switch may work but I don't know of any that can reliably handle HDMI 2.1, or the options of HDMI 2.1 that you are concerned with.


----------



## solidus28

LG CX 77 here. Received my Xbox Series X and rather than using the cable that came with it, I connected it to the same cable my Xbox One X was connected to, an 8ft Monoprice DynamicView Ultra 8K Premium High Speed HDMI Cable. System was fine with me setting it to 4K 120hz. I played for a few hours today with Forza Horizon 4, Resident Evil 2, and Ori, all of which played without issue. Guessing only Forza would come close to utilizing higher bandwidth with recent updates, but all is well so far. Only thing I've noticed so far is cutouts in the startup animation audio, but if that's the worst thing that happens, I can live with it.

Also should note, I tested three different 8 ft, one 6 ft and one 3 ft cables on my Denon 6700H and none of them passed beyond 18Gbps. I've been super worried, but glad everything is smooth so far.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bacongineer

I just received a response from Ruipro regarding my issue with the Gen3 cable and my RTX 3080 & LG C9. They also told me what they told papadon: they should have a new version ready in the next few days. I'll post an update once I receive that replacement.


----------



## solidus28

Delete


----------



## Otto Pylot

solidus28 said:


> Also should note, I tested three different 8 ft, one 6 ft and one 3 ft cables on my Denon 6700H and none of them passed beyond 18Gbps. I've been super worried, but glad everything is smooth so far.
> 
> Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


It might be helpful to the folks who use the Search feature to keep your posts to one thread. Just a thought.


----------



## provenflipper

I was able to do some testing today with a Xbox Series X, Sony 85” X900H and Denon x4700H.

Zeskit 5m/16.5’ cable passes 4K/120 between the Xbox and TV just fine. I own two of these cables and they both worked flawlessly. 

Due to the length, the 5m Zeskit is a pretty thick cable and can take some maneuvering to get plugged in the right orientation. 

I also successfully tested 3’ and 6’ versions of these Monoprice 8K HDMI cables at 4K/120. 





__





Monoprice 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 1.5ft - 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com


DynamicView™ 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation of HDMI cables. Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this future proofed cable just might be the l



www.monoprice.com





I have the 8’ version too, but won’t be able to fully verify that it passes 4K/120 because it is already installed in a different room. Based on the length, I’m not expecting any issues. 

All three of the cables also pass the bandwidth test on the X4700H. 

Unfortunately I am a victim of the faulty chipsets in the Denon receiver in that the Xbox can see the TV is capable of 4K/120 through the receiver, but the receiver will not pass it through. 

I was happy to see the cables work as intended and now I can finish my installation and clean everything up.


----------



## solidus28

Otto Pylot said:


> It might be helpful to the folks who use the Search feature to keep your posts to one thread. Just a thought.


Done

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk


----------



## CheYC

Hey everyone, I currently have the Zeskit 10ft 8K cables, but I'm having issues w/ eARC and other dropouts and am questioning them, and they are also insanely thick and I can't get my LG GX completely flush w/ the wall. I'm going to give some of these Ruipro cables a whirl, but I'm a little confused on the difference b/w the "copper" and "fiber" designation - other than the huge price difference... Though reading now it sounds like I should wait a few days anyway?


----------



## Otto Pylot

The Zeskit cables are passive and certified (probably) for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. Because they are passive and certified to carry the higher bandwidth requirements of HDMI 2.1, the copper wiring needs to be a thicker gauge. The downside of that is loss of flexibility (bend radius). That can cause undue strain on the HDMI port which is a big no-no. That's probably why eARC is having issues, unless it's a configuration issue between source and sink.

A hybrid fiber cable has 4 glass optical fibers surrounded by 8 copper wires. The fiber core carries the higher bandwidth requirements and the copper wires carry the lower bandwidth requirements (ARC, HDCP, EDID), basically the communication between source and sink. Hybrid fiber cables are active so they can not be certified like the passive cables can so you won't find any certified active cables of any kind (copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber).

The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible (excellent bend radius) so they would probably be your best bet. However, they are an expensive overkill because they are really designed for cable runs longer than 25'. I've tested shorter length Ruipro 4k hybrid fiber cables (HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps) and they work just fine at lengths less than 10'. However, if you want a cable for HDMI 2.1 (I'm assuming you're a gamer) then the Zeskit cable would be recommended, but given your setup, the Ruipro8k cable may work for you. If all you're concerned with is eARC (which is possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets) then the hybrid fiber cable may work, especially at your length. If you're a gamer, you'll just have to take a chance.


----------



## CheYC

Thanks for the explanation - makes sense. I wonder if I damaged the cable trying to get it to bend properly. Are you saying that basically any passive 2.1 cable will likely be that thick and inflexible just by design then?

I have a hard time swallowing spending $250 on 2 10ft cables for those fiber optic ones... the 2.1 Ruipro copper cable claims to be a bit more flexible, so I'm considering giving that a shot.


----------



## Otto Pylot

CheYC said:


> Thanks for the explanation - makes sense. I wonder if I damaged the cable trying to get it to bend properly. Are you saying that basically any passive 2.1 cable will likely be that thick and inflexible just by design then?
> 
> I have a hard time swallowing spending $250 on 2 10ft cables for those fiber optic ones... the 2.1 Ruipro copper cable claims to be a bit more flexible, so I'm considering giving that a shot.


Passive cables that are certified for either HDMI version (2.0 or 2.1) will have a thicker wire gauge because that is what is required for copper wiring to be able to handle the option sets (bandwidth). HDMI 2.1 may require an even thicker wire gauge but I haven't actually compared the two side by side. I will be getting some certified Zeskit soon so I can compare them to the Premium High Speed HDMI cables from BJC that I have laying around.

Ruipro doesn't have a copper-only cable for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. 

I think your receiver, Denon X3400-H has the HDMI 2.0 chipsets, which may be able to be upgraded to eARC. Keep in mind it's not the cable that allows you to use eARC (as long as the cable supports ethernet) but the source and sink device. And, depending on your connected devices, you may have to have CEC enabled to use eARC.


----------



## CheYC

Thanks. Ruipro has an 8K copper cable on Amazon unless I'm missing something: https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynam...=1&keywords=ruipro&qid=1605114958&sr=8-3&th=1

my receiver did get an update for eARC I think two years ago, so I'm OK on that front.


----------



## Otto Pylot

You don't really need an 8k cable because a 4k cable (HDMI 2.0) should work ok for eARC. It might be worth a try and if it works, you've saved yourself some money. If not, return it and try the 8k.

Keep in mind that Ruipro has an updated version of their 8k cable (RUIPRO8k GEN-3) so check to see if you get that one. Amazon is good about warehousing older items and selling them first to reduce their inventory.


----------



## Afrikan

Can anyone recommend a Male to Female HDMI 2.1 Extender? I've owned some Amazon Basic or something that looks basic HDMI 2.0 extenders for years now, and they still work great. I don't see any of the same brand for HDMI 2.1 

The SIKAI ones on Amazon seem to be a good price...but one reviewer said his a had audio hiccup issue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Afrikan said:


> Can anyone recommend a Male to Female HDMI 2.1 Extender? I've owned some Amazon Basic or something that looks basic HDMI 2.0 extenders for years now, and they still work great. I don't see any of the same brand for HDMI 2.1
> 
> The SIKAI ones on Amazon seem to be a good price...but one reviewer said his a had audio hiccup issue.


Extenders are not recommended for HDMI 2.1. HD (1080) is fine, but once you move up to the higher bandwidths, 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0 and beyond) they become problematic. Keep in mind that the cable is just a data pipe. What determines what you can get is the HDMI chipsets in the source and sink, not the cable. The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink. No adapters, extenders, wall plates, etc. in-between.


----------



## alebonau

Afrikan said:


> Can anyone recommend a Male to Female HDMI 2.1 Extender? I've owned some Amazon Basic or something that looks basic HDMI 2.0 extenders for years now, and they still work great. I don't see any of the same brand for HDMI 2.1
> 
> The SIKAI ones on Amazon seem to be a good price...but one reviewer said his a had audio hiccup issue.


I too would not recommend joiners/externders for hdmi 2.0 let alone hdmi 2.1


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## darkdreamingdan

Hello all

I'd like to thank everyone on this forum (Otto, AV-Arrow, Takster amongst others) for all the really helpful information. I've been lurking through anonymously for some time because i've wanted to get eARC working for my Samsung Frame TV.

My setup was:

Samsung Frame 55" 2020 with latest Firmware (this supports eARC)
Sonos Arc
For whatever reason, it's really hard to actually find apps to test eARC/Atmos properly! Here's how I ended up testing:

Upon connection, Samsung displays "Receiver (HDMI-eARC)" in the inputs dialog (screenshot attached). If eARC fails, it will simply display "Receiver (HDMI)"
Using the Samsung TV Amazon Prime app, play Jack Ryan Season 1 Episode 1
As a secondary check, I then use the Sonos App and access System Info. This will display "Dolby Atmos" as Audio in (screenshot attached). If eARC fails, this will display "Dolby Atmos (DD+)" - i.e., compressed Dolby Atmos















The intention was not like most people here using projectors and the like. I wanted my Samsung one connectbox to be at the back of the room, and TV+Soundbar at the front of the room. This way all, BD-Players, PS4 etc could be hidden away at the back, but have the tv and soundbar at the front. However, I needed my cable run to be about 7 metres, which I thought would be in the realm of passive cables, and if not active cables.

Here are the cables i tested with and results:

*Snowkids 3meter 2.0 18gbps cable** - ✅eARC working. *This is not a long cable and only used for testing but was used to check that the TV and Soundbar were working with eARC. The above screenshots use this cable.
*iVANKY 7.6meter 2.0 18gbps cable - ❌eARC fails. *This is a passive cable which supports 2.0 and one of the longest passive cables i could find. Interestingly, I'm able to use this cable to do 4k60hz to connect my laptop to my TV. But for sound, the TV switched to standard ARC with compressed AtmosDD+.
*RuiPro 4k 10meter 2.0b 18gbps cable* - ❌*eARC fails. *There should be enough bandwidth here for eARC, but the TV didn't like it. TV switched to standard ARC with compressed AtmosDD+.
*RuiPro 8k 10meter 2.1 48gbps cable [*SNAOC21V101A02_ARP 8X2BRF GEN1] - ❌*eARC fails. *I thought 2.1 conformity might be causing issues, so this cable would work, right? Nope. TV switched to standard ARC with compressed AtmosDD+.
*Connbull 8k 15m 48gbps cable - ❌eARC fails. *Well the RuiPro are buggy and the GEN3 cables don't seem to be widely available. Perhaps this cable with good Amazon reviews but unknown brand might work? Nope. TV switched to standard ARC with compressed AtmosDD+.
So in the end, i've decided to return my Sonos ARC because i did not think it was worth it to have such an awesome soundbar without the tech being available for me to connect it in the way that i want. Since this cable was to go under the floorboards, i did not want to compromise with ARC in the meantime.

It's unclear to me why this was actually happening. The RuiPro 4k cable should have worked fine for this - there is enough bandwidth in 2.0b for eARC. This is further proven by the fact it worked fine with a Snowkids 18gbps cable. I suspect this could be a Samsung TV issue and that the cables themselves might be fine - perhaps it's running some check on the cable and determining it's not compatible even though it is. There's also no way to force the TV to use eARC. I hear LG are way ahead of the curve when it comes to this over Samsung.

So, in summary, good luck to anyone trying to get eARC working correctly 10m+ and I'd be really keen to hear if others had success. I couldnt actually find many people reporting back how they faired in this forum, just theoretical information. The whole thing is a mess and i suppose TV manufacturers have not got their tech good enough, or the cable tech is not yet ready. I'm going to revisit this in a few years time when hopefully the tech is more mature. Overall I'm really disappointed that I can't even solve this problem by throwing money at it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ARC, especially eARC is still a problem with a lot of systems and cables. I know the earlier iterations of the Ruipro4k and8k cables had ARC issues starting at about the 10m mark. Some worked and some didn't. They have supposedly corrected that with current iterations but it's still not 100% (no cable mfr is).

It's not really surprising that the Snowkids cable worked given its distance at 3m (9'). But it is a passive cable and states it only supports ARC. The fact that it worked with eARC is surprising. Supporting ARC does not automatically means it will support eARC. 

Trial and error is what it's all about. The hybrid fiber cables are your best bet for eARC given the design of the cable but that too is still a bit iffy. There could also have been a sporadic issue with the Sonos soundbar.

Even if you could shorten your length, a 25' certified passive cable would have a thicker wire gauge so flexibility might be an issue because you don't want to put any undue strain on the HDMI port.


----------



## darkdreamingdan

Otto Pylot said:


> ARC, especially eARC is still a problem with a lot of systems and cables. I know the earlier iterations of the Ruipro4k and8k cables had ARC issues starting at about the 10m mark. Some worked and some didn't. They have supposedly corrected that with current iterations but it's still not 100% (no cable mfr is).
> 
> It's not really surprising that the Snowkids cable worked given its distance at 3m (9'). But it is a passive cable and states it only supports ARC. The fact that it worked with eARC is surprising. Supporting ARC does not automatically means it will support eARC.
> 
> Trial and error is what it's all about. The hybrid fiber cables are your best bet for eARC given the design of the cable but that too is still a bit iffy. There could also have been a sporadic issue with the Sonos soundbar.
> 
> Even if you could shorten your length, a 25' certified passive cable would have a thicker wire gauge so flexibility might be an issue because you don't want to put any undue strain on the HDMI port.


Maybe i could reduce port strain by using cable ties. As a last stand before I return all this gear, could you recommend a good 25' passive certified cable? I'm currently eyeing the Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable. This is not 2.1, but i can't find any medium-length certified 2.1 passive cables (i guess they dont get certified). Perhaps this will work like Snowkids did.


----------



## WhartoX

Just to note, my 65-foot Ruipro cable (The one prior to GEN3) works fine with my PS5 digital edition and a LG C9 at 4K60 12-bit RGB.


----------



## g24

Good to see some longer distances working.. I need a 35' cable. Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but where do you buy the Ruipro cables? I see some on Amazon...


----------



## Otto Pylot

WhartoX said:


> Just to note, my 65-foot Ruipro cable (The one prior to GEN3) works fine with my PS5 digital edition and a LG C9 at 4K60 12-bit RGB.


Excellent! Thanks for posting. It appears that it's still a bit of a hit and miss with what devices are connected but at least you got good results at 65'! How about eARC, does it work as well?


----------



## Otto Pylot

darkdreamingdan said:


> Maybe i could reduce port strain by using cable ties. As a last stand before I return all this gear, could you recommend a good 25' passive certified cable? I'm currently eyeing the Monoprice Certified Premium High Speed HDMI cable. This is not 2.1, but i can't find any medium-length certified 2.1 passive cables (i guess they dont get certified). Perhaps this will work like Snowkids did.


Certified, passive, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables, with the QR label, should be available from Zeskit and Belkin but you may have to wait a couple of more weeks until they get the QR labels from HDMI LA to affix to the packaging. However, 15' is the maximum length for UHS HDMI cables. Passive, Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0) has a maximum length of 25'. Active cables of any kind (copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber), as mentioned before, can not be certified by an ATC (HDMI.org) because of the active nature of the cable.

Either certified passive HDMI cable, PHS HDMI or UHS HDMI will have a thicker wire gauge because of the certification so there will be some loss of flexibility, so keep that in mind when preventing undue strain on the HDMI port.


----------



## MrSniper1401

Anyone tried the Fusion8k hdmi cable on Amazon? I was going to get the Zeskit for 10ft runs but I can get the Fusion8k to my area quicker albeit for slightly higher price


----------



## Otto Pylot

MrSniper1401 said:


> Anyone tried the Fusion8k hdmi cable on Amazon? I was going to get the Zeskit for 10ft runs but I can get the Fusion8k to my area quicker albeit for slightly higher price


Carefully read the product description. The cables are called "Fusion 8k HDMI 2.1" cables. HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to not use the HDMI version number in their cable descriptions because it was too confusing for the consumer. Premium High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label are certified for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. Ultra High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label are certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Those are the only two recognized names for certified HDMI cables. Anything else is tested in-house and you're left with the reputation and build quality of the mfr as to how thoroughly and complete the cables were tested. Some mfrs do a much better job than others.

There is no mention of certification or a QR label of authenticity nor is there any mention of eARC if that's a concern. ARC compatibility does not automatically mean eARC capable. To me, those cables are questionable. They may work but caveat emptor.

If it were me, I'd wait for the Zeskit cables to come with the QR label. Just keep in mind that any passive cable that purports to work for the HDMI 2.1 option sets will have a thicker wire gauge due to the requirements of the HDMI 2.1 bandwidths so there will be a loss of flexibility so you need to take that into consideration when installing the cables because you don't want to put any undue strain on the HDMI input or bend the cables too sharply.


----------



## MrSniper1401

Otto Pylot said:


> Carefully read the product description. The cables are called "Fusion 8k HDMI 2.1" cables. HDMI.org asked cable mfrs years ago to not use the HDMI version number in their cable descriptions because it was too confusing for the consumer. Premium High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label are certified for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. Ultra High Speed HDMI cables with the QR label are certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Those are the only two recognized names for certified HDMI cables. Anything else is tested in-house and you're left with the reputation and build quality of the mfr as to how thoroughly and complete the cables were tested. Some mfrs do a much better job than others.
> 
> There is no mention of certification or a QR label of authenticity nor is there any mention of eARC if that's a concern. ARC compatibility does not automatically mean eARC capable. To me, those cables are questionable. They may work but caveat emptor.
> 
> If it were me, I'd wait for the Zeskit cables to come with the QR label. Just keep in mind that any passive cable that purports to work for the HDMI 2.1 option sets will have a thicker wire gauge due to the requirements of the HDMI 2.1 bandwidths so there will be a loss of flexibility so you need to take that into consideration when installing the cables because you don't want to put any undue strain on the HDMI input or bend the cables too sharply.


Well if I don't wish to wait for Zeskit to restock and Ruipro being a little overkill for 10 ft cables I would need, what other brands would you recommend? Use is for my PS5 and 4K blu-ray player for use on my LG CX. eARC needed


----------



## Otto Pylot

MrSniper1401 said:


> Well if I don't wish to wait for Zeskit to restock and Ruipro being a little overkill for 10 ft cables I would need, what other brands would you recommend? Use is for my PS5 and 4K blu-ray player for use on my LG CX. eARC needed


If all you're concerned with is eARC, then try a PHS HDMI cable with ethernet and see how that works. If it doesn't work, try another brand (Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge). At 10', I would imagine that cable access is fairly easy? I sent an email to Zeskit yesterday asking them about the status of their labels. I'm supposed to get some cables from them to test.


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## EdisonsChildren

This is simple for us. What is the best 3 foot cable for our system

We have a new Samsung Q70 4k 120 hz TV
We have a brand new Yamaha TSR-700 (V6A) (which we bought because it was cheap and new at Costco for $399 and runs HDR 10+ and Samsung seems set on never running Dolby Vision) and we figured lets get the best bang for the buck that is HDR10+ until the 2.1 chipset issue is figured out. 
We do plan on getting XBox Series X despite the issues and will try to figure out an eARC workaround until they come out with an AVR that is _affordable_ that is XBox Series X compatible which probably won't be until 2021/22
Running Jamo Based Atmos Height Speaker system with Double Powered Sub 

Should I assume that we need 48gbps cable with HDR 10+ 4k/120hz? (Samsung's refuse to go Dolby Vision)
Again we only need 3 feet so no issues with length (that's what she said)
Most of this forum is about longer length. Everything we have is together. Need a few 3 foot cables. What is the best bang for the buck that is "certified" for eARC and I assume we need 48gbps? am I right? 
We are trying to decide between Monoprice / Zeskit / Fusion 8k / Basesailor / Monster


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## Otto Pylot

48Gbps is not necessary for eARC. eARC has a maximum bandwidth of 37Mbps. In fact, eARC can be accomplished on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if they have been designed for an update. HDR 10/10+ is Samsung's own video format to compete with Dobly Vision, which, imo, there's no competition.

If you go with a passive cable at that length, then keep in mind that some passive cables are very close to being certified as Ultra High Speed HDMI. They will have a thicker wire gauge so there will be a loss of flexibility which can result in increasing the strain on the HDMI port because of a too sharp of a bend in the cable. Depending on your setup you might want to give yourself a little slack.

If it were me, I'd steer clear of anything related to Monster and wait until Zeskit gets the QR labels for their cables which will certify them as being authentic Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets). They are supposed to get the labels by the end of November. I have no problem running HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10) with Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0 option sets).


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## EdisonsChildren

Otto Pylot said:


> 48Gbps is not necessary for eARC. eARC has a maximum bandwidth of 37Mbps. In fact, eARC can be accomplished on the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if they have been designed for an update. HDR 10/10+ is Samsung's own video format to compete with Dobly Vision, which, imo, there's no competition.
> 
> If you go with a passive cable at that length, then keep in mind that some passive cables are very close to being certified as Ultra High Speed HDMI. They will have a thicker wire gauge so there will be a loss of flexibility which can result in increasing the strain on the HDMI port because of a too sharp of a bend in the cable. Depending on your setup you might want to give yourself a little slack.
> 
> If it were me, I'd steer clear of anything related to Monster and wait until Zeskit gets the QR labels for their cables which will certify them as being authentic Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets). They are supposed to get the labels by the end of November. I have no problem running HDR (Dolby Vision, HDR10) with Premium High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.0 option sets).


No competition between HDR 10+ and Dolby vision is no competition in terms of?... Dolby Vision kicks it's butt or... other way around? (not that it matters... the Samsung is too new to get rid of and too old to return it)

Was going to go with Monoprice but based on what you said, the Zeskit's will probably be certified soon enough anyway and someone actually went through the trouble earlier on this forum to test a whole bunch of cables and found the same thing you did. Went with Zeskit 48Gbps better safe than sorry... not much higher in price anyway


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## Otto Pylot

EdisonsChildren said:


> No competition between HDR 10+ and Dolby vision is no competition in terms of?... Dolby Vision kicks it's butt or... other way around? (not that it matters... the Samsung is too new to get rid of and too old to return it)
> 
> Was going to go with Monoprice but based on what you said, the Zeskit's will probably be certified soon enough anyway and someone actually went through the trouble earlier on this forum to test a whole bunch of cables and found the same thing you did. Went with Zeskit 48Gbps better safe than sorry... not much higher in price anyway


Samsung makes great tv's so if it sounded like I was putting them in a bad light, that wasn't my intention. They just wanted to their own HDR to compete against DV because DV needs to be licensed and HDR 10 doesn't. In terms of video fidelity, DV is just better, but some have a hard time telling the difference.

I haven't heard anything current from Zeskit on their labels but I will be following up with them next week. The cables they are currently selling certainly have all of the bullet points for Ultra High Speed HDMI. The only thing they lack is the QR label, so far.


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## stuup1dmofo

I've been doing some extended testing with the Gen 3 Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Optic Cable between my C9 and RTX 3080 FE. So far, it has worked like a dream after 2 days. There have been zero signal drops or artifacts while gaming at 3840x2160 120hz RGB 4:4:4. Even with HDR and VRR (Gsync compatible) enabled, there have been zero problems. The hiccup I have run across is when turning on the computer and getting to the Windows Login Screen, it glitches and displays a double image. However, this is solved simply by turning the TV off and then back on. Not sure if anybody else experiences the same thing, but that's not even a big deal compared to the many other handshake issues I've had with HDMI over the years, so I can easily live with it. 

I must thank Ruipro for their incredible customer service as they have said that they are willing to send me a Gen 4 cable when they are done developing it even though I don't really think this is a major problem.


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## Otto Pylot

stuup1dmofo said:


> I've been doing some extended testing with the Gen 3 Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Optic Cable between my C9 and RTX 3080 FE. So far, it has worked like a dream after 2 days. There have been zero signal drops or artifacts while gaming at 3840x2160 120hz RGB 4:4:4. Even with HDR and VRR (Gsync compatible) enabled, there have been zero problems. The hiccup I have run across is when turning on the computer and getting to the Windows Login Screen, it glitches and displays a double image. However, this is solved simply by turning the TV off and then back on. Not sure if anybody else experiences the same thing, but that's not even a big deal compared to the many other handshake issues I've had with HDMI over the years, so I can easily live with it.
> 
> I must thank Ruipro for their incredible customer service as they have said that they are willing to send me a Gen 4 cable when they are done developing it even though I don't really think this is a major problem.


Thanks for posting back. The glitch could just be a Windows thing and not the cable. However, it sounds like it's minor and easily corrected. I don't know if Ruipro is going to re-label their cables as Gen-4 or not. I just received a box of their cables for testing purposes and they were all labeled Gen-3. And yes, their customer support is some of the best I've seen. They are very receptive to the needs and issues of their customers.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

stuup1dmofo said:


> I've been doing some extended testing with the Gen 3 Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Optic Cable between my C9 and RTX 3080 FE. So far, it has worked like a dream after 2 days. There have been zero signal drops or artifacts while gaming at 3840x2160 120hz RGB 4:4:4. Even with HDR and VRR (Gsync compatible) enabled, there have been zero problems. The hiccup I have run across is when turning on the computer and getting to the Windows Login Screen, it glitches and displays a double image. However, this is solved simply by turning the TV off and then back on. Not sure if anybody else experiences the same thing, but that's not even a big deal compared to the many other handshake issues I've had with HDMI over the years, so I can easily live with it.
> 
> I must thank Ruipro for their incredible customer service as they have said that they are willing to send me a Gen 4 cable when they are done developing it even though I don't really think this is a major problem.


What length of cable are you using?


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## stuup1dmofo

Jeff Saylor said:


> What length of cable are you using?


10 meters.


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## MrJuggle

stuup1dmofo said:


> I've been doing some extended testing with the Gen 3 Ruipro Hybrid Fiber Optic Cable between my C9 and RTX 3080 FE. So far, it has worked like a dream after 2 days. There have been zero signal drops or artifacts while gaming at 3840x2160 120hz RGB 4:4:4. Even with HDR and VRR (Gsync compatible) enabled, there have been zero problems. The hiccup I have run across is when turning on the computer and getting to the Windows Login Screen, it glitches and displays a double image. However, this is solved simply by turning the TV off and then back on. Not sure if anybody else experiences the same thing, but that's not even a big deal compared to the many other handshake issues I've had with HDMI over the years, so I can easily live with it.
> 
> I must thank Ruipro for their incredible customer service as they have said that they are willing to send me a Gen 4 cable when they are done developing it even though I don't really think this is a major problem.


Thank you for sharing. Where Can i order this cable? I've searched Amazon.com but can only find SNAOC21V101A_15 (which has the older product id). I've contacted RUIPRO through their site and Amazon but haven't heard back. I'm living in the Netherlands.


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## WhartoX

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent! Thanks for posting. It appears that it's still a bit of a hit and miss with what devices are connected but at least you got good results at 65'! How about eARC, does it work as well?


eARC works fine


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## Otto Pylot

MrJuggle said:


> Thank you for sharing. Where Can i order this cable? I've searched Amazon.com but can only find SNAOC21V101A_15 (which has the older product id). I've contacted RUIPRO through their site and Amazon but haven't heard back. I'm living in the Netherlands.


That is the correct product code for the Ruipro 8k cables: SNAOC21V101A_10. The last digits are the cable length. The latest iteration of the 8k cable will have a little green tag that says "Ruipro8k Gen-3". The box will also have the label affixed. Ordering thru Amazon can be a bit tricky as they want to reduce their stock of the other "generations" of 8k cables. All of them have the same product code and are not listed per "generation" so you have no way of know if the cable is the first or second interation of the cable. I posted a couple of weeks back all of the current product codes for the entire Ruipro cable line, direct from Ruipro. Being as where you are, contacting Ruipro directly would probably be your best bet.


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## MrJuggle

Otto Pylot said:


> That is the correct product code for the Ruipro 8k cables: SNAOC21V101A_10. The last digits are the cable length. The latest iteration of the 8k cable will have a little green tag that says "Ruipro8k Gen-3". The box will also have the label affixed. Ordering thru Amazon can be a bit tricky as they want to reduce their stock of the other "generations" of 8k cables. All of them have the same product code and are not listed per "generation" so you have no way of know if the cable is the first or second interation of the cable. I posted a couple of weeks back all of the current product codes for the entire Ruipro cable line, direct from Ruipro. Being as where you are, contacting Ruipro directly would probably be your best bet.


Thank you! I did see your post and examined the product codes through Amazon. I did try to contact Ruipro but haven't received an answer. Not through their website and nor through Amazon.


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## Otto Pylot

MrJuggle said:


> Thank you! I did see your post and examined the product codes through Amazon. I did try to contact Ruipro but haven't received an answer. Not through their website and nor through Amazon.


Give Ruipro some time. They are really very responsive to their customer base. However, they are also very busy continuing to work on compatibility issues (some of the compatibility issues are device-related and not necessarily the cable) and keeping up with orders.


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## bentleyazure

Good Afternoon - I'm one of the lucky ones that was able to snag a PS5 during launch day. While I wait for it to ship, I'm trying to make sure I've got my ducks in a row for the set-up.


LG OLED CX 65 inch
Yamaha TSR-7850
PS5
Roku Streaming Stick +

I have a lengthy run from my entertainment cabinet to my TV, ~35-40 ft. I think I need a 48 gbps HDMI to take full advantage of the set-up, correct? I'm looking at: 





__





Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 10ft - AOC 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com


SlimRun™ AV Dynamic HDR 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation in active optical cable systems. With support for resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this futur



www.monoprice.com





Obviously if there are cheaper alternatives that'd be great...ie. HDMI to Cat6 to HDMI?

Thanks!


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## Otto Pylot

The cable you link to may work but be careful of the "word salad" that they use in their marketing. The cables are listed as "8k SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI cable". The use "ultra high speed" in the cable description may lead some to think that these are certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets but they are not. No active cable, of any kind, can be and will be certified by an ATC (HDMI.org) so you're up to the mfrs' claims as to how they validated their cable's performance. Monoprice sells good cables but they are just a reseller, not a mfr, so they don't edit nor create the product descriptions. Again, the cables may work but just be wary of the claims.

At 40', are you running your cable in a conduit if it's in-wall, or do you have easy access to your cabling? A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders is the most reliable connection for 4k HDR, especially if you are going to try and push some of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. A lot of us recommend the Ruipro8k cables because Ruipro designs and mfrs their own cables using proprietary chipsets and thoroughly tests them with the current testing equipment, and tests them against some of the current shipping HDMI 2.1 devices. There are still some compatibility issues with all active, hybrid fiber cables, and Ruipro is constantly tweaking their cables for any compatibility issues that are encountered. And they are very responsive to the needs of their customers. I don't want to make this sound like a promo for Ruipro but I have lots of experience with them and no one else. There are other reliable hybrid cable mfrs who make very good cables so Ruipro is not the only one to check out.

Whichever cable you get, lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it to make sure it meets your needs and expectations prior to installation.


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## saiyanzzrage

Just bought 2 of the monoprice dynamicview 8k cables, but may return them (havent opened yet) after reading reviews that they arent true hdmi2.1 cables. 

Has anyone had any experience with the Belkin 48gbps cables?


----------



## MrJuggle

Otto Pylot said:


> Give Ruipro some time. They are really very responsive to their customer base. However, they are also very busy continuing to work on compatibility issues (some of the compatibility issues are device-related and not necessarily the cable) and keeping up with orders.


Talkin' bout the devil... (That's a Dutch saying when someone enters the room when when you talk about him..) just received a message back from Ruipro that the cables sold in the Amazon US store are the GEN-3 cables and should work with RTX30xx and C9 tv's.

So I ordered one (50ft / 15m) and have it delivered to me between the 1s anbd 11th of december. I will update you guys than if the cable worked for me!

Thanks for the support here, really appreciate it.


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## Otto Pylot

MrJuggle said:


> Talkin' bout the devil... (That's a Dutch saying when someone enters the room when when you talk about him..) just received a message back from Ruipro that the cables sold in the Amazon US store are the GEN-3 cables and should work with RTX30xx and C9 tv's.
> 
> So I ordered one (50ft / 15m) and have it delivered to me between the 1s anbd 11th of december. I will update you guys than if the cable worked for me!
> 
> Thanks for the support here, really appreciate it.


Do let us know how it works. 50' can be tough, even for the newest hybrid fiber cables. A lot can depend on how you have the cable installed as well. Single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between is the most reliable connection when pushing 4k HDR and beyond. And if it's an in-wall installation, the use of a conduit is almost required as it makes it easier and safer to install cabling and to control bend radius. Installing a pull string as well is advisable. Lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it will meet your needs and expectations. No cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time with all devices and setups.


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## Otto Pylot

saiyanzzrage said:


> Just bought 2 of the monoprice dynamicview 8k cables, but may return them (havent opened yet) after reading reviews that they arent true hdmi2.1 cables.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with the Belkin 48gbps cables?


The Belkin cables, like the Zeskit cables, are supposed to be Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets) but until the cables come packaged with the QR labels of authenticity, I'd wait a bit longer. The labels are coming but they will be specific to the cable so for piece of mine, I'd wait for the labeling.

To repeat myself, NO active cable, copper only, hybrid, or hybrid fiber can be certified by an ATC (HDMI.org) as an Ultra High Speed HDMI cable. Certification is for passive cables only, and only up to 15' (5m). Be wary of the "word salad" that cable mfrs use. That being said, there are hybrid fiber cable mfrs who thoroughly test their cables using the latest industry standard testing devices and methods. They just can't get the QR label because the cables are active. Ruipro is one that takes great pains to certify in-house their cables using those devices and methods. Monoprice does sell very good cables but they are not a cable mfr, only a reseller, so you're left to the cable mfrs product descriptions and marketing. There are no 100% guarantees for 4k HDR and beyond due to the device mfrs and their implementation of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. It's still a bit of trial and error.


----------



## bentleyazure

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable you link to may work but be careful of the "word salad" that they use in their marketing. The cables are listed as "8k SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI cable". The use "ultra high speed" in the cable description may lead some to think that these are certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets but they are not. No active cable, of any kind, can be and will be certified by an ATC (HDMI.org) so you're up to the mfrs' claims as to how they validated their cable's performance. Monoprice sells good cables but they are just a reseller, not a mfr, so they don't edit nor create the product descriptions. Again, the cables may work but just be wary of the claims.
> 
> At 40', are you running your cable in a conduit if it's in-wall, or do you have easy access to your cabling? A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders is the most reliable connection for 4k HDR, especially if you are going to try and push some of the HDMI 2.1 option sets. A lot of us recommend the Ruipro8k cables because Ruipro designs and mfrs their own cables using proprietary chipsets and thoroughly tests them with the current testing equipment, and tests them against some of the current shipping HDMI 2.1 devices. There are still some compatibility issues with all active, hybrid fiber cables, and Ruipro is constantly tweaking their cables for any compatibility issues that are encountered. And they are very responsive to the needs of their customers. I don't want to make this sound like a promo for Ruipro but I have lots of experience with them and no one else. There are other reliable hybrid cable mfrs who make very good cables so Ruipro is not the only one to check out.
> 
> Whichever cable you get, lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it to make sure it meets your needs and expectations prior to installation.


Thanks! I want a great picture but want to be reasonable with expenses too. If the $150-$200 cable may not work out, or isn't future proof, should I just go with a 40 ft HDMI 2.0 from monoprice? Then when prices drop and 2.1 becomes more widespread, I make the bigger purchase?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bentleyazure said:


> Thanks! I want a great picture but want to be reasonable with expenses too. If the $150-$200 cable may not work out, or isn't future proof, should I just go with a 40 ft HDMI 2.0 from monoprice? Then when prices drop and 2.1 becomes more widespread, I make the bigger purchase?


Keep in mind that the cable can not alter or modify the signal it carries. The cable is just a data pipe. Your pq is totally dependent on what the source sends to the sink. If you don't get sparkles, drop outs, etc then you're getting the best you can, regardless of what the slick cable marketing indicates.

The ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to install it in a conduit if it's an in-wall installation or you don't have easy access to your cable. As video standards become more demanding the prospects of changing your cabling are very high. If the HDMI 2.0 option sets meet your needs then go with a cable that supports that for now and then upgrade your cabling down the road. If the Monoprice cable doesn't work, return it and try something else. I've always had good results in the past with BJC and MediaBridge. Monoprice does sell good cables for the most part (they are a reseller not a cable mfr) so give it a try. No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work for every setup and installation.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

saiyanzzrage said:


> Just bought 2 of the monoprice dynamicview 8k cables, but may return them (havent opened yet) after reading reviews that they arent true hdmi2.1 cables.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with the Belkin 48gbps cables?


The monoprice cable didn’t work for me at 30ft.


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## bentleyazure

Jeff Saylor said:


> The monoprice cable didn’t work for me at 30ft.


What did work for you?


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## [email protected]

Gents 

I have been away from this thread for a little while but I'm getting ps5 and new 8k tv. I'm in need of a good hdmi 2.1 cable to be able to get the most out of the kit. The length for my use case is only 2m. Last time, Rupiros were mentioned as being good but just want to check if that is still the case or are there better alternatives available now given the progression of new tvs and consoles pushing for 8k. 
Look forward to your replies. 
Best 
V

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## provenflipper

saiyanzzrage said:


> Just bought 2 of the monoprice dynamicview 8k cables, but may return them (havent opened yet) after reading reviews that they arent true hdmi2.1 cables.
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with the Belkin 48gbps cables?


What length are you running? I’ve tested the 3, 6 and 8ft Monoprice 8K cables and they appear to pass 4K120.


[email protected] said:


> Gents
> 
> I have been away from this thread for a little while but I'm getting ps5 and new 8k tv. I'm in need of a good hdmi 2.1 cable to be able to get the most out of the kit. The length for my use case is only 2m. Last time, Rupiros were mentioned as being good but just want to check if that is still the case or are there better alternatives available now given the progression of new tvs and consoles pushing for 8k.
> Look forward to your replies.
> Best
> V
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


At only 2m, there’s a few options you can use. I’ve tested a 6 foot and 8 foot Monoprice cable that worked for me, but I would recommend the Zeskit 8K cables.

They are very well built and are supposedly getting certification labels any day now. I’m running their 5m version and it passes 4K/120 to my Sony X900H with no problems.


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Gents
> 
> I have been away from this thread for a little while but I'm getting ps5 and new 8k tv. I'm in need of a good hdmi 2.1 cable to be able to get the most out of the kit. The length for my use case is only 2m. Last time, Rupiros were mentioned as being good but just want to check if that is still the case or are there better alternatives available now given the progression of new tvs and consoles pushing for 8k.
> Look forward to your replies.
> Best
> V
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Where did you find an 8k television? 

At 2m (6'), your best bet would be to use a certified, passive, Ultra High Speed HDMI cable. There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". Currently, there are only a few certified UHS HDMI cables with the QR label of authenticity on the packaging. Zeskit is who you should consider at this point in time. I think Belkin also offers one. That being said, the labels have just started to be delivered to those two mfrs so you may have to wait until you can get one with the QR label. The cables are the same it's just that HDMI LA was late in getting the labels to the mfrs before they started selling them.

The Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are very good as well but they are active cables so they can not be certified by HDMI.org and get the QR labels. No active cable can regardless of whether they are copper only , fiber, or hybrid fiber. Certification for the HDMI 2.1 option sets is only available for passive cables with a maximum cable length of 15' (3m) so the hybrid fiber cables would be an expensive overkill at that length. 

The downside of UHS HDMI cables is that because they are copper only, the wire gauge is a bit thicker which reduces the bend radius of the cable which, in turn, may increase the strain on the HDMI port so give yourself plenty of space so you don't have any sharp bends in your cable run.

The most reliable cable run is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders etc in-between. And if your cable run is in-wall, the use of a conduit is highly recommended as it makes it safe and easier to fish your cables and also makes it easier to upgrade your cabling should the need arise. The ONLY way to future proof your cabling is to use a conduit.


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## bryantc

Zeskit is now selling officially certified cables


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## [email protected]

Zeskit had to be imported in the UK via amazon and Belkin price is steep for a cable £60. Rupiro passive seem to have mixed reviews so does monoprice. 

I cannot believe how hard it has got to get a cable that meets the standard. 

BTW John lewis are doing some offers on 8k tvs. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## helvetica bold

bryantc said:


> Zeskit is now selling officially certified cables


It doesn’t say certified on the Amazon page. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Agent6er

Rocketfish has new (up to 12") cables it is claiming are ultra high speed certified. $80 for the 12' one(a typical BB overpriced cable). I haven't seen one in person, if anyone is in a Best Buy soon I'd be interested as to if they have the QR label. There is supposed to be a certified AudioQuest also(even more overpriced).


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## bryantc

helvetica bold said:


> It doesn’t say certified on the Amazon page.


It'll take time for the page to be updated and for the new stock to come in. I have no idea where Vincent got his.

Zeskit has been saying that their existing cables are certified they just don't have the sticker yet. I have 2 of their 16ft cables and they work perfectly. They are the safest bet right now.


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## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Zeskit is now selling officially certified cables


Yep. Zeskit told me that they received the QR labels about 2 weeks ago from HDMI LA and are now labeling the packaging with the labels. However, Amazon has both cable packages in stock. The cables are the same it's just that some are package labeled and some are not. Amazon will randomly send either one until their inventory of unlabled packaging is depleted. From that point on, all Zeskit UHS HDMI cables will come with the QR label on the packaging.


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## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> Rocketfish has new (up to 12") cables it is claiming are ultra high speed certified. $80 for the 12' one(a typical BB overpriced cable). I haven't seen one in person, if anyone is in a Best Buy soon I'd be interested as to if they have the QR label. There is supposed to be a certified AudioQuest also(even more overpriced).


Personally I'd never purchase a Rocketfish cable from BB. Like AuidoQuest, they are over priced for the same performance. I'd look into the new Zeskit UHS HDMI cables. They should be available with the QR label by now. See my other post above.


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Zeskit had to be imported in the UK via amazon and Belkin price is steep for a cable £60. Rupiro passive seem to have mixed reviews so does monoprice.
> 
> I cannot believe how hard it has got to get a cable that meets the standard.
> 
> BTW John lewis are doing some offers on 8k tvs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Ruipro hybrid fiber cables are not passive, they are active and as such are not certifiable by an ATC (HDMI.org). Again, if your cable run is under 15', then find a certified UHS HDMI cable (Zeskit) and don't bother with an active hybrid fiber cable. You may have to wait awhile in the UK before the cables are available on your side of the pond.

Don't know who John Lewis is.


----------



## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> Where did you find an 8k television?


Costco has 1 LG and 3 Samsung with 7680x4320 resolution which many call 8k. BestBuy shows 19 models including 3 sony, one for $60,000 ... yeah, sixty thousand.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> Costco has 1 LG and 3 Samsung with 7680x4320 resolution which many call 8k. BestBuy shows 19 models including 3 sony, one for $60,000 ... yeah, sixty thousand.


At $60,000 for a television, they don't exist for me  . Source material would certainly be a problem. I can't see any reason to spend that kind of money on a television, but that's me. Maybe for the SERIOUSLY hard core gamers...


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## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> I can't see any reason to spend that kind of money on a television, but that's me. Maybe for the SERIOUSLY hard core gamers...


@bryantc Hear that? You a SERIOUSLY hard core gamer.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> @bryantc Hear that? You a SERIOUSLY hard core gamer.


I didn't know @bryantc had an 8k televison 😁. Awesome.


----------



## bryantc

Otto Pylot said:


> I didn't know @bryantc had an 8k televison 😁. Awesome.


Mine was only $30,000. I'm cheap.


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## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Mine was only $30,000. I'm cheap.


Black Friday sale?


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## Daytraders

Pick up 8K tv easily under £5K, not to bad.


----------



## HomieTheClown

Do i need a Ultra Speed or whatever the correct terminology for a 4k TV? I see the term '4k120' a lot so I'm assuming yeah I still need this 48 Gbps cable? I just plan to use an hdmi cable with my 4k tv and hopefully a good AVR whenever I get one. In the future I will get a PS5 which will connect to the AVR. Unfortunately I need to run this cable 40' so I am looking to get the active non-certified cables if I do have to get one.


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## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Do i need a Ultra Speed or whatever the correct terminology for a 4k TV? I see the term '4k120' a lot so I'm assuming yeah I still need this 48 Gbps cable? I just plan to use an hdmi cable with my 4k tv and hopefully a good AVR whenever I get one. In the future I will get a PS5 which will connect to the AVR. Unfortunately I need to run this cable 40' so I am looking to get the active non-certified cables if I do have to get one.


No. A High Speed HDMI cable at 40' should work just fine for 4k HDR if you are careful with the installation (no sharp bends and a single cable, source to sink with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between). If you plan on gaming, as it sounds like you are, then you might have to consider a hybrid fiber cable with the same installation recommendations as above. If your 40' run is in-wall, a conduit, with a pull string, is almost a requirement as it makes it so much easier and safer to pull your cable and to control bend radius. The recommendation for a hybrid fiber cable would be the Ruipro8k, Gen-3. As with any cable, lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it to make sure it meets your needs and expectation prior to installation. However, no cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time with all setups and installations so using conduit and testing beforehand is the wisest approach as it is still a bi of trial and error with long cable runs, 4k HDR, and gaming.

Ultra High Speed HDMI cables are passive cables, certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. They will come with the QR label of authenticity but are limited to a maximum length of 15'.


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## GCTuba

Just received my RTX 3080 yesterday to pair with my LG OLED C9 and can confirm that the 4ft 48Gbps cables sold by Echogear here are not up to snuff. They've been working reliably for a year and a half now for 4K/60 and 1440p/120 and also seem to be passing an eARC signal fine too. I can technically enable 4K/120 and Gsync but the screen blacks out every few seconds making it unusable. Enabling 4K/120 without Gsync causes the same problems. I've ordered the Monoprice slim 3ft 48Gbps cable (probably can't go any shorter) and will report back if it works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

GCTuba said:


> Just received my RTX 3080 yesterday to pair with my LG OLED C9 and can confirm that the 4ft 48Gbps cables sold by Echogear here are not up to snuff. They've been working reliably for a year and a half now for 4K/60 and 1440p/120 and also seem to be passing an eARC signal fine too. I can technically enable 4K/120 and Gsync but the screen blacks out every few seconds making it unusable. Enabling 4K/120 without Gsync causes the same problems. I've ordered the Monoprice slim 3ft 48Gbps cable (probably can't go any shorter) and will report back if it works.


Try the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables if the Monoprice doesn't work. They are certified for UHS HDMI and are passive, but a bit stiff, so give yourself some slack in order not to stress the HDMI ports.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

Received the RUIPRO Gen-3b (33ft) cable and it doesn’t work even at 4K/60. The desktop displays on the LGC9 for 5 seconds then blacks out to “no signal”.

Its a bit nutty that it won’t even output a standard 4K signal when I have an active 2.0 cable (50ft) that will.

Starting to get really frustrated over this!


----------



## GCTuba

Otto Pylot said:


> Try the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables if the Monoprice doesn't work. They are certified for UHS HDMI and are passive, but a bit stiff, so give yourself some slack in order not to stress the HDMI ports.


I've added it to my ever-growing list, thanks! Sucks to finally get a 3080 after 2 months of trying, waiting for the UPS guy for a week, and then not being able to fully use the card for another week waiting for a cable to come.


----------



## Daytraders

GCTuba said:


> I've added it to my ever-growing list, thanks! Sucks to finally get a 3080 after 2 months of trying, waiting for the UPS guy for a week, and then not being able to fully use the card for another week waiting for a cable to come.


Yeh, why these expensive cards don't even come with a hdmi 2.1 cable is beyond me, consoles come with 2.1 cables.


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## Otto Pylot

Daytraders said:


> Yeh, why these expensive cards don't even come with a hdmi 2.1 cable is beyond me, consoles come with 2.1 cables.


Could be the additional cost of designing a cable, properly validating it, and then passing that cost on to the consumer?


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## Otto Pylot

Jeff Saylor said:


> Received the RUIPRO Gen-3b (33ft) cable and it doesn’t work even at 4K/60. The desktop displays on the LGC9 for 5 seconds then blacks out to “no signal”.
> 
> Its a bit nutty that it won’t even output a standard 4K signal when I have an active 2.0 cable (50ft) that will.
> 
> Starting to get really frustrated over this!


Return it to Ruipro for a replacement/refund. Did you test it prior to installation or is your cable access easy to get to?


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## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Return it to Ruipro for a replacement/refund. Did you test it prior to installation or is your cable access easy to get to?


I was just about to order one. 
Is there not one that for sure works at 25+ feet?

I see that have a 3ft fiber. Why would you not just get copper at that length?

Another issue is that the Denon X6500H doesn't correctly support HDMI and their support is just like oh well, if it doesn't work it must be your computer or your cables. I was trying to use some 8K fiber cables and I understand this is just for HDMI 2.0 bandwidth type stuff not HDMI 2.1 and directly to the TV they worked fine but going through the Denon AVR the image kept going black or coming in and out. Then I've read that the new Denon AVRs that are supposed to support HDMI 2.1 don't work either but I still wanted to get a cable that I could run directly from the PC to the TV and the other room when I wanted to game.

Maybe next year they'll be an AVR with HDMI 2.1 that actually works (Maybe even more than one port on your $3,000 HDMI switch that doesn't switch HDMI very well.) and cables that actually work. It just stinks having a LG77C9 TV with HDMI 2.1 and a new RTX 3080 video card with HDMI 2.1 and no cables that work. My old monoprice 25-ft copper cables drop out when I try to do 120 hz and 10-bit color. So I can do 1920 by 1080 and 10 bit color at 60 hz or 8-bit color at 120 hz.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

Otto Pylot said:


> Return it to Ruipro for a replacement/refund. Did you test it prior to installation or is your cable access easy to get to?


Yes I laid it out on the floor to test first.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

Ordered this cable to give it a try. My last 50ft cable works perfectly from these guys, so I’ll update when it rolls through.
HDMI 2.1


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I was just about to order one.
> Is there not one that for sure works at 25+ feet?
> 
> I see that have a 3ft fiber. Why would you not just get copper at that length?
> 
> Another issue is that the Denon X6500H doesn't correctly support HDMI and their support is just like oh well, if it doesn't work it must be your computer or your cables. I was trying to use some 8K fiber cables and I understand this is just for HDMI 2.0 bandwidth type stuff not HDMI 2.1 and directly to the TV they worked fine but going through the Denon AVR the image kept going black or coming in and out. Then I've read that the new Denon AVRs that are supposed to support HDMI 2.1 don't work either but I still wanted to get a cable that I could run directly from the PC to the TV and the other room when I wanted to game.
> 
> Maybe next year they'll be an AVR with HDMI 2.1 that actually works (Maybe even more than one port on your $3,000 HDMI switch that doesn't switch HDMI very well.) and cables that actually work. It just stinks having a LG77C9 TV with HDMI 2.1 and a new RTX 3080 video card with HDMI 2.1 and no cables that work. My old monoprice 25-ft copper cables drop out when I try to do 120 hz and 10-bit color. So I can do 1920 by 1080 and 10 bit color at 60 hz or 8-bit color at 120 hz.


At 3' (1m) one should be using a passive, UHS HDMI cable, certified with the QR label. Zeskit is one that has good reviews.

No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all HDMI 2.1 devices (source and sink) that are currently being marketed. Ruipro, which is one that a lot of us recommend, have an 8k, Gen-3 cable that has been tested with as many HDMI 2.1 devices that they can reasonably test with. And they are constantly trying to tweak their cables to be compatible with the various implementations of HDMI 2.1 by the device mfrs. Part of the issue is how the device mfrs implement the various HDMI 2.1 option sets, and the bug that has apperently been discovered in the HDMI 2.1 chipsets of some of the newer Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha receivers;

As I have said before, video standards will always outpace connection standards, so the cable mfrs will always be playing catch up. Trial and error.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jeff Saylor said:


> Ordered this cable to give it a try. My last 50ft cable works perfectly from these guys, so I’ll update when it rolls through.
> HDMI 2.1


Let us know how it works out.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> At 3' (1m) one should be using a passive, UHS HDMI cable, certified with the QR label. Zeskit is one that has good reviews.
> 
> No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all HDMI 2.1 devices (source and sink) that are currently being marketed. Ruipro, which is one that a lot of us recommend, have an 8k, Gen-3 cable that has been tested with as many HDMI 2.1 devices that they can reasonably test with. And they are constantly trying to tweak their cables to be compatible with the various implementations of HDMI 2.1 by the device mfrs. Part of the issue is how the device mfrs implement the various HDMI 2.1 option sets, and the bug that has apperently been discovered in the HDMI 2.1 chipsets of some of the newer Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha receivers;
> 
> As I have said before, video standards will always outpace connection standards, so the cable mfrs will always be playing catch up. Trial and error.


Yeah, the 3 ft fiber is a head scratcher maybe it's a typo but I don't know why you would pay a hundred bucks for that and add possible instability with a non passive cable had 3 ft or even 6 to 10 ft.

It really should just be a data pipe. My current 25-ft copper cable can almost do it but there's drop-outs. I'm not sure why the fiber cables aren't capable with all devices. It seems like there's a lot of things that can just go wrong that may or may not be the cable. Yesterday I spent time trying to get a third 25-ft cable that I had spare working directly from the PC to the TV and with my AMD card this worked fine and even though the Vegas 64 card was HDMI 2.0 I could bump up some settings that could not be used through the AVR. Now that I have an RTX 3080 that's HDMI 2.1, when it's direct to the TV it was dropping signal here and there but I was able to use the higher settings until later in the day when I tried again and the LG c9 would not show any signal with the TVs high depth color setting on. I had to turn it off when earlier in the day it worked but with dropouts. Then when I connect to the original cable that goes through the AVR that goes through another 25-ft cable to the TV works fine with HDMI 2.0 settings. It seems like if these 48GBps fiber or non-passive cables are having issues it's because there's some kind of delay in the signal or it's a little dirty or it's not really full 48 GBPS. 

On top of all this there's the normal HDMI nonsense. Like with my old setup and the AMD card that was HDMI 2.0 it would go through bouts of supporting HDR and not. I could have it turned on and play games for hours and it would be fine then all the sudden I get drop out and I turn HDR off and then it would be fine. So maybe my cables are marginal or the AVR is doing somethingor there's some other setting that I turned on without knowing it that pushed it over the edge and I had to turn HDR off to bring it back down.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yeah, the 3 ft fiber is a head scratcher maybe it's a typo but I don't know why you would pay a hundred bucks for that and add possible instability with a non passive cable had 3 ft or even 6 to 10 ft.
> 
> It really should just be a data pipe. My current 25-ft copper cable can almost do it but there's drop-outs. I'm not sure why the fiber cables aren't capable with all devices. It seems like there's a lot of things that can just go wrong that may or may not be the cable. Yesterday I spent time trying to get a third 25-ft cable that I had spare working directly from the PC to the TV and with my AMD card this worked fine and even though the Vegas 64 card was HDMI 2.0 I could bump up some settings that could not be used through the AVR. Now that I have an RTX 3080 that's HDMI 2.1, when it's direct to the TV it was dropping signal here and there but I was able to use the higher settings until later in the day when I tried again and the LG c9 would not show any signal with the TVs high depth color setting on. I had to turn it off when earlier in the day it worked but with dropouts. Then when I connect to the original cable that goes through the AVR that goes through another 25-ft cable to the TV works fine with HDMI 2.0 settings. It seems like if these 48GBps fiber or non-passive cables are having issues it's because there's some kind of delay in the signal or it's a little dirty or it's not really full 48 GBPS.
> 
> On top of all this there's the normal HDMI nonsense. Like with my old setup and the AMD card that was HDMI 2.0 it would go through bouts of supporting HDR and not. I could have it turned on and play games for hours and it would be fine then all the sudden I get drop out and I turn HDR off and then it would be fine. So maybe my cables are marginal or the AVR is doing somethingor there's some other setting that I turned on without knowing it that pushed it over the edge and I had to turn HDR off to bring it back down.


Fiber and hybrid fiber are active cables and I think a lot of cable issues are due to the chipsets in the cables not playing nice with how the device mfr's chipsets are implementing the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Active cables worked great in the good 'ol days of HD (1080) but now with the demands of HDMI 2.0 and especially HDMI 2.1, the cable technology is just not there yet across the board. Distance is always going to be an issue which really sucks for a lot of folks.

In an ideal world, the device mfrs' should have worked more closely with the cable mfrs prior to the release of the HDMI 2.1 devices to make sure that their products were going to work as designed for at least up to 50'. That's a win-win for everyone but it didn't happen. That and the fact that HDMI is not really an industry standard like ethernet is, it's an option set, so the device mfrs can implement those option sets however they choose (think CEC), and that adds another layer of potential problems.

Video technology will always outpace connection.


----------



## alebonau

@Otto Pylot we seem to have two items being sold on our local market with ultra high speed certified labels ... both look to be same thing generic and labelled different brands...









GTEK Ultra High Speed 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable


1.8m Ultra-Certified Version 2.1 HDMI CableLifetime Guarantee and Connection GuaranteeCompatible with the latest devices including PS5, Xbox Series X, HDMI 2.1




www.jbhifi.com.au













BLE - BL-HDMI18C-8K - HDMI 2.1 8k Ultra Certified Cable - 1.8m


Shop BLE - BL-HDMI18C-8K - HDMI 2.1 8K ULTRA CERTIFIED CABLE - 1.8M at Bing Lee - Australian, Family Owned Business Since 1957 ✅ Next Day Delivery ✅ Afterpay & ZipPay ✅ Express Click & Collect ✅




www.binglee.com.au





we have had one other brand premium certified cable here that has turned out to be a fake... so can hope others above aren't. if i do see in the shops i'll check with hdmi orgs app...


----------



## avernar

alebonau said:


> @Otto Pylot we seem to have two items being sold on our local market with ultra high speed certified labels ... both look to be same thing generic and labelled different brands...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GTEK Ultra High Speed 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable
> 
> 
> 1.8m Ultra-Certified Version 2.1 HDMI CableLifetime Guarantee and Connection GuaranteeCompatible with the latest devices including PS5, Xbox Series X, HDMI 2.1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jbhifi.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BLE - BL-HDMI18C-8K - HDMI 2.1 8k Ultra Certified Cable - 1.8m
> 
> 
> Shop BLE - BL-HDMI18C-8K - HDMI 2.1 8K ULTRA CERTIFIED CABLE - 1.8M at Bing Lee - Australian, Family Owned Business Since 1957 ✅ Next Day Delivery ✅ Afterpay & ZipPay ✅ Express Click & Collect ✅
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.binglee.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we have had one other brand premium certified cable here that has turned out to be a fake... so can hope others above aren't. if i do see in the shops i'll check with hdmi orgs app...


Fake. Those "certification" labels are not real. The URL should be www.HDMI.org for starters. They even show a picture of how the real label looks like but on the box is the fake one. They just grabbed the close up pick from here: Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - Bandwidth Up To 48Gbps - HDMI

Unfortunately you can't use the authentication app when ordering online but only after you already got them. But then I guess you can just return them.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@alebonau I would agree with @avernar.

The official name, recognized and trademarked (I believe) by HDMI.org is: Ultra High Speed HDMI, *not *Premium Certified 8k HDMI 2.1 Ultra cable or HDMI 2.1 8k Ultra Certified HDMI cable. See the difference. And neither cable lists the HDMI 2.1 option sets that it has been tested and validated for as required by HDMI LA. 48Gbps is only one of the options but "Ultra" implies the entire set. Both cables are made by the same counterfeit Chinese cable mfr.


----------



## Franjo

Active fiber cable isn't working for me

Im running this cable with an active usb adapter plugged into the back of the tv that is providing the cable power. 









Cleerline SSF-48UHD-AOC-10m SSF 8K/UHD 48Gbps Active Optical HDMI 32.80 Feet (10m)


Cleerline SSF48UHDAOC05M SSF™ 8K Ultra High Definition HDMI Active Optical Cables (AOC) provide the ultimate in signal transfer at 48 Gbps.




m.markertek.com





I know the cable is 32ft and long so perhaps that's why im having the following issues with the LG C9 and asus strix 3090 video card.

Can only do 1440p 120hz
Can only do 4k 60hz from nvidia Control Panel ULTRA, HD, SD Section NOT PC section. If I try to set the PC section to 4k 120 or 4k100, I get nothing on the screen and it reverts back
Gsync is enabled at 1440p, if I try to start a game instant game response msg pops up and I see no picture of the game.
Can only turn on HDR at 1920x1080


I'm on latest firmware OTA 05.00.03

I've power on and off the PC for a long time so no luck there. I know its a super long cable, I would have to move stuff around for a shorter cable. Can anyone recommend a cable to buy. I won't lie, this one wasn't cheap.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Franjo said:


> Active fiber cable isn't working for me
> 
> Im running this cable with an active usb adapter plugged into the back of the tv that is providing the cable power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleerline SSF-48UHD-AOC-10m SSF 8K/UHD 48Gbps Active Optical HDMI 32.80 Feet (10m)
> 
> 
> Cleerline SSF48UHDAOC05M SSF™ 8K Ultra High Definition HDMI Active Optical Cables (AOC) provide the ultimate in signal transfer at 48 Gbps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.markertek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know the cable is 32ft and long so perhaps that's why im having the following issues with the LG C9 and asus strix 3090 video card.
> 
> Can only do 1440p 120hz
> Can only do 4k 60hz from nvidia Control Panel ULTRA, HD, SD Section NOT PC section. If I try to set the PC section to 4k 120 or 4k100, I get nothing on the screen and it reverts back
> Gsync is enabled at 1440p, if I try to start a game instant game response msg pops up and I see no picture of the game.
> Can only turn on HDR at 1920x1080
> 
> 
> I'm on latest firmware OTA 05.00.03
> 
> I've power on and off the PC for a long time so no luck there. I know its a super long cable, I would have to move stuff around for a shorter cable. Can anyone recommend a cable to buy. I won't lie, this one wasn't cheap.


By active USB adapter I imagine you mean a voltage inserter? For an active fiber or hybrid fiber cable, a voltage inserter is the only thing you should be using, and most connect the inserter at the source end. Try it without the adapter and see what happens.

Make sure your cable is installed with a gentle bend radius to avoid any sharp bends and there is no strain on the HDMI ports. Did you lay the cable out of the floor first for testing prior to installation? And, at 32' do you have easy access to the cable or if in-wall, did you use a conduit?

I would recommend you look into the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b hybrid fiber cables.


----------



## alebonau

I find it utterly tragic that we have cables with labelling that appear to be legit but are clearly not. what is even more tragic is both the retailers of the cables ...one has even gone as far as pop their brand on what is sold ... are legit bricks and mortar stores... how can the deception like this become so prevalent ? seems bizarre and unbelievable !


----------



## Franjo

Otto Pylot said:


> By active USB adapter I imagine you mean a voltage inserter? For an active fiber or hybrid fiber cable, a voltage inserter is the only thing you should be using, and most connect the inserter at the source end. Try it without the adapter and see what happens.
> 
> Make sure your cable is installed with a gentle bend radius to avoid any sharp bends and there is no strain on the HDMI ports. Did you lay the cable out of the floor first for testing prior to installation? And, at 32' do you have easy access to the cable or if in-wall, did you use a conduit?
> 
> I would recommend you look into the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b hybrid fiber cables.


Thank you for your reply. I've taken a picture of what I got in the box along with the instructions for it.


http://imgur.com/a/EWbLPt1


Looking at it perhaps a different 5v power supply is needed? I just simply plugged in the usb cable into the TV. If I unplug the usb cable, I have all the same symptons. Is what I picture a voltage inserter?

there are no sharp bends of the cable whatsoever. It is run along the floor and I made sure I was very careful with the cable. 

The cable is kind of bunched up in circles behind my TV Stand, pictured here:



http://imgur.com/a/rR5XACC


Edit, I re read what you said and I tried the usb voltage inserter at the source side too, no luck either.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

Nevermind


----------



## Otto Pylot

Franjo said:


> Thank you for your reply. I've taken a picture of what I got in the box along with the instructions for it.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/EWbLPt1
> 
> 
> Looking at it perhaps a different 5v power supply is needed? I just simply plugged in the usb cable into the TV. If I unplug the usb cable, I have all the same symptons. Is what I picture a voltage inserter?
> 
> there are no sharp bends of the cable whatsoever. It is run along the floor and I made sure I was very careful with the cable.
> 
> The cable is kind of bunched up in circles behind my TV Stand, pictured here:
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/rR5XACC
> 
> 
> Edit, I re read what you said and I tried the usb voltage inserter at the source side too, no luck either.


That is a voltage inserter. They are not guaranteed to work 100% and are really just an option in case you have a current output issue at the source or sink end. It's probably the cable or you have one of the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets in your GPU. I would try another cable (Ruipro 8k Gen-3b) and be careful with the installation process. Ruipro supples a voltage inserter as well but I wouldn't use it initially in case you don't need it. Trial and error is the name of the game.


----------



## Tanquen

I have a Denon X6500H with built in HDMI tester and I did some testing with a short cable 5 ft or so. And it of course works, passes all tests. So I tried adding some pigtails on I've been using because the 25 ft cables are so heavy and rigid it's hard to plug it into the AVR and TV and I know I've had issues with some of the past but it was more obvious when you'd use one you would lose signal. But using the test built into the AVR one of the thinner ones fails the 4K at 60 hz test every time. Two of them fail randomly and another two pass every time but even the two that pass every time if I plug them both in then they fail the 60 hz test every time. So it looks like if you're marginal you can't really use the pigtail connectors.

Anyone have a 2020 AVR with a HDMI 2.1 and use the built in tester on the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b?

The spare 25-ft monoprice cable fails the 4K 60 test randomly. And with the best pigtail on it it fails every time. The way the TV is mounted I need to do a 180 behind the TV for that cable to connect if it'll even reach because the LG c977 has all the ports on the far left and the cable comes out the wall dead center of the TV.

I think every HDMI device should have this. I wish it would show a percent single strength so you’d know it passed and how close it is to failing. Also too bad I can’t test for HDMI 2.1 but I’d not touch a 2020 HDMI 2.1 AVR with a ten foot poll.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I have a Denon X6500H with built in HDMI tester and I did some testing with a short cable 5 ft or so. And it of course works, passes all tests. So I tried adding some pigtails on I've been using because the 25 ft cables are so heavy and rigid it's hard to plug it into the AVR and TV and I know I've had issues with some of the past but it was more obvious when you'd use one you would lose signal. But using the test built into the AVR one of the thinner ones fails the 4K at 60 hz test every time. Two of them fail randomly and another two pass every time but even the two that pass every time if I plug them both in then they fail the 60 hz test every time. So it looks like if you're marginal you can't really use the pigtail connectors.
> 
> Anyone have a 2020 AVR with a HDMI 2.1 and use the built in tester on the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b?
> 
> The spare 25-ft monoprice cable fails the 4K 60 test randomly. And with the best pigtail on it it fails every time. The way the TV is mounted I need to do a 180 behind the TV for that cable to connect if it'll even reach because the LG c977 has all the ports on the far left and the cable comes out the wall dead center of the TV.
> 
> I think every HDMI device should have this. I wish it would show a percent single strength so you’d know it passed and how close it is to failing. Also too bad I can’t test for HDMI 2.1 but I’d not touch a 2020 HDMI 2.1 AVR with a ten foot poll.


Keep in mind that while the built-in HDMI tester is nice to have, it's not all that accurate or reproducible in a lot of cases. Calibrated bandwidth testers are expensive so I doubt that the Denon one is "professional grade". It is better than nothing though.

Daisy-chaining cables is not recommended, especially for active cables. It can, and does, mess with signal propagation. They were fine with passive cables and HD (1080) but definitely not for 4k HDR and especially the HDMI 2.1 option sets.

Single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection. Be mindful of bend radius (too sharp of a bend in the cable) and make sure you are not putting any undue strain on the HDMI ports. If you have very little space behind your wall mounted tv, and you have to use adapters (pig tails) or sharply bend the cable, that could be your problem. You are almost required to use a thin cable of which the hybrid fiber cables are.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that while the built-in HDMI tester is nice to have, it's not all that accurate or reproducible in a lot of cases. Calibrated bandwidth testers are expensive so I doubt that the Denon one is "professional grade". It is better than nothing though.


also isnt the denon bandwidth limited ie 40gbps ? not full bandwidth capability of hdmi 2.1 ie 48gbps ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> also isnt the denon bandwidth limited ie 40gbps ? not full bandwidth capability of hdmi 2.1 ie 48gbps ?


I believe you are correct.


----------



## 5468467984

Thanks for the RUIPro-Gen3 recommendation Otto, ordered one yesterday. Will be delivered in a couple of weeks I think. So far I moved my PC next to my TV and getting 4k120 444 with 12 bit colour, with a passive 6ft cable no problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Thanks for the RUIPro-Gen3 recommendation Otto, ordered one yesterday. Will be delivered in a couple of weeks I think. So far I moved my PC next to my TV and getting 4k120 444 with 12 bit colour, with a passive 6ft cable no problem.


If you can, it might not be a bad idea to keep your equipment within that 15' maximum so you can use the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables instead of complicating the connection with an active cable. And cheaper too! I forget how long your run is. Ruipro does now have a Gen-3b cable which has been tweaked a bit more for better compatibility so that may be why it's going to take so long.

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## muscles

The new Certified cables by the Best Buy brand RocketFish with the QR code and certification work absolutely perfectly. PC is absolutely good to go, tested everything. Even getting flawless Atmos through my eARC receiver. This mixed with the .30 firmware for the LG CX is absolutely brilliant. I had to go with a shorter run, but this is rock stable. 

Greg


----------



## Otto Pylot

muscles said:


> The new Certified cables by the Best Buy brand RocketFish with the QR code and certification work absolutely perfectly. PC is absolutely good to go, tested everything. Even getting flawless Atmos through my eARC receiver. This mixed with the .30 firmware for the LG CX is absolutely brilliant. I had to go with a shorter run, but this is rock stable.
> 
> Greg


Good to know. I'm not a fan of Rocketfish (overpriced) but at least they are offering certified UHS HDMI cables. Zeskit is the other one and I think Belkin is offering one as well.


----------



## alebonau

muscles said:


> The new Certified cables by the Best Buy brand RocketFish with the QR code and certification work absolutely perfectly. PC is absolutely good to go, tested everything. Even getting flawless Atmos through my eARC receiver. This mixed with the .30 firmware for the LG CX is absolutely brilliant. I had to go with a shorter run, but this is rock stable.
> 
> Greg


is this an ultra high speed cable ? is this one of the first ut there with the mandatory certification ? do post a link if the case


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> If you can, it might not be a bad idea to keep your equipment within that 15' maximum so you can use the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables instead of complicating the connection with an active cable. And cheaper too! I forget how long your run is. Ruipro does now have a Gen-3b cable which has been tweaked a bit more for better compatibility so that may be why it's going to take so long.
> 
> Let us know how it goes.


Sadly, it needs to go back or my wife kills me. In regards to the active cable, will my order from yesterday be getting Gen3b (I am guessing yes)? I saw another thread where you had mentioned that Gen3 was marked on the new cables, so I am speculating Gen3b will be marked on the cable as well (if it is Gen3b).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Sadly, it needs to go back or my wife kills me. In regards to the active cable, will my order from yesterday be getting Gen3b (I am guessing yes)? I saw another thread where you had mentioned that Gen3 was marked on the new cables, so I am speculating Gen3b will be marked on the cable as well (if it is Gen3b).





alebonau said:


> is this an ultra high speed cable ? is this one of the first ut there with the mandatory certification ? do post a link if the case


I've seen the cables and yes, they are legitimate, UHS HDMI cables with the QR label on the packaging. You can purchase them at Best Buy but I haven't checked out Rocketfish's website to see if you can order directly from them or not. Rocketfish is typically overpriced but I haven't compared the cost yet to the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables and I don't think we're supposed to discuss or post costs.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Sadly, it needs to go back or my wife kills me. In regards to the active cable, will my order from yesterday be getting Gen3b (I am guessing yes)? I saw another thread where you had mentioned that Gen3 was marked on the new cables, so I am speculating Gen3b will be marked on the cable as well (if it is Gen3b).


Can't say. It should but if it doesn't come with the "b" label you can ask Ruipro about it. I have a few of the 8k cables and they all have a little green tag on them that says Ruipro 8k Gen-3. Try them anyway, they may work just fine.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> I've seen the cables and yes, they are legitimate, UHS HDMI cables with the QR label on the packaging. You can purchase them at Best Buy but I haven't checked out Rocketfish's website to see if you can order directly from them or not. Rocketfish is typically overpriced but I haven't compared the cost yet to the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables and I don't think we're supposed to discuss or post costs.


ps looks like ruipro also have their certified 1-2-3m range coming jan 2021....seem to be reasonably priced..

New Certified 8k Ruipro 1m – 2m – 3m available Jan 2021
Brand: Ruipro


StackPath



HDMI UHS Certified cables (available Jan. 2021)

described properly as ultra high speed supporting hdmi 2.1 spec

note i also see that it says it comes with ...
HDMI.org Certified (Sticker


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> ps looks like ruipro also have their certified 1-2-3m range coming jan 2021....seem to be reasonably priced..
> 
> New Certified 8k Ruipro 1m – 2m – 3m available Jan 2021
> Brand: Ruipro
> 
> 
> StackPath
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI UHS Certified cables (available Jan. 2021)
> 
> described properly as ultra high speed supporting hdmi 2.1 spec
> 
> note i also see that it says it comes with ...
> HDMI.org Certified (Sticker


I hadn't heard that Ruipro was going to produce passive cables for UHS HDMI certification. I'll have to ask them tomorrow. If that's the case, that's another competitor which can only be good for the consumer.


----------



## Daytraders

Any people from the UK here, that can recommend 2.1 working cable for PC and consoles, well everything actually, thx


----------



## sechev00

Would these be good enough to replace the PS5 HDMI cable? Unfortunately the PS5 cable is too short for where I’d like the PS5 to be for proper ventilation so looking at getting another cable that will be 6-8 ft length wise. 

I’d like to get something at a retailer preferably so that I could pick it up today but I’ll resort to this one and wait for it to arrive if it’s good enough. 

Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 8K60 4K120 144Hz eARC HDR10 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Xbox PS4 PS5 Apple TV 4K Roku Fire TV Switch Vizio Sony LG Samsung https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S1CGQ9Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_yh9UFbS2TEEAH


----------



## Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot said:


> I hadn't heard that Ruipro was going to produce passive cables for UHS HDMI certification. I'll have to ask them tomorrow. If that's the case, that's another competitor which can only be good for the consumer.


I talked to them this morning and they do in fact offer UHS HDMI cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sechev00 said:


> Would these be good enough to replace the PS5 HDMI cable? Unfortunately the PS5 cable is too short for where I’d like the PS5 to be for proper ventilation so looking at getting another cable that will be 6-8 ft length wise.
> 
> I’d like to get something at a retailer preferably so that I could pick it up today but I’ll resort to this one and wait for it to arrive if it’s good enough.
> 
> Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 8K60 4K120 144Hz eARC HDR10 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Xbox PS4 PS5 Apple TV 4K Roku Fire TV Switch Vizio Sony LG Samsung https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S1CGQ9Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_yh9UFbS2TEEAH


The Zeskit UHS HDMI cable is what I would recommend if you want to push 4k HDR @HDMI 2.1 option sets. They are certified by an ATC but some cables may or may not come with the QR label. The QR labels were late in getting to Zeskit from HDMI LA so some of the cables sold on Amazon may not have them. Amazon is randomly selling the cables until their inventory of the non-labled cables is depleted. Zeskit assures me that the cables are exactly the same. Keep in mind that the wire gauge is a bit thicker due to the requirements of HDMI 2.1 so they are not as flexible as the active cables. That translates to a narrower bend radius which result in increased strain on the HDMI ports if you don't have enough space to accommodate a thicker cable.

Ruipro also has a certified UHS HDMI cable.


----------



## provenflipper

sechev00 said:


> Would these be good enough to replace the PS5 HDMI cable? Unfortunately the PS5 cable is too short for where I’d like the PS5 to be for proper ventilation so looking at getting another cable that will be 6-8 ft length wise.
> 
> I’d like to get something at a retailer preferably so that I could pick it up today but I’ll resort to this one and wait for it to arrive if it’s good enough.
> 
> Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 8K60 4K120 144Hz eARC HDR10 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Xbox PS4 PS5 Apple TV 4K Roku Fire TV Switch Vizio Sony LG Samsung https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S1CGQ9Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_yh9UFbS2TEEAH


I would recommend this cable for your use. I have the 5m version and I’ve tested it with both the PS5 and Xbox Series X. It will pass 4K/120 perfectly. 

After having success, I ran another Zeskit 5m cable for my other setup that definitely doesn’t need a pipe that large, but I figured I’d try to future proof a bit.


----------



## sechev00

provenflipper said:


> I would recommend this cable for your use. I have the 5m version and I’ve tested it with both the PS5 and Xbox Series X. It will pass 4K/120 perfectly.
> 
> After having success, I ran another Zeskit 5m cable for my other setup that definitely doesn’t need a pipe that large, but I figured I’d try to future proof a bit.





Otto Pylot said:


> The Zeskit UHS HDMI cable is what I would recommend if you want to push 4k HDR @HDMI 2.1 option sets. They are certified by an ATC but some cables may or may not come with the QR label. The QR labels were late in getting to Zeskit from HDMI LA so some of the cables sold on Amazon may not have them. Amazon is randomly selling the cables until their inventory of the non-labled cables is depleted. Zeskit assures me that the cables are exactly the same. Keep in mind that the wire gauge is a bit thicker due to the requirements of HDMI 2.1 so they are not as flexible as the active cables. That translates to a narrower bend radius which result in increased strain on the HDMI ports if you don't have enough space to accommodate a thicker cable.
> 
> Ruipro also has a certified UHS HDMI cable.


Thank you both! Will be going with this then for the PS5.


----------



## [email protected]

GCTuba said:


> Just received my RTX 3080 yesterday to pair with my LG OLED C9 and can confirm that the 4ft 48Gbps cables sold by Echogear here are not up to snuff. They've been working reliably for a year and a half now for 4K/60 and 1440p/120 and also seem to be passing an eARC signal fine too. I can technically enable 4K/120 and Gsync but the screen blacks out every few seconds making it unusable. Enabling 4K/120 without Gsync causes the same problems. I've ordered the Monoprice slim 3ft 48Gbps cable (probably can't go any shorter) and will report back if it works.


Waiting for your results on monoprice ones. Thanks. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## MrJuggle

CONFIRMED! GEN-3B cable (50ft, 15m) from RUIPRO works with RTX3090 and LG C9! The problem was that my windows install was not properly configured to output the desired resolutions. After a registry reset of the display configuration it now works!


Just received my GEN-3B cable (50ft, 15m) from RUIPRO and sadly it does NOT work with my ASUS 3090 TUF and LG 9. I Can get 4k 4.2.0 8bit 60hz but that's it. Can go any higher and I'm not able to turn on Ultra Deep color. This is such a bummer...

I tried different HDMI ports, used the usb plug both at source and end it still does not work while the cable is on the floor.


----------



## GCTuba

[email protected] said:


> Waiting for your results on monoprice ones. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Just talked to Monoprice and they said 5-7 business days and to expect it by December 1st. The wait is agonizing


----------



## [email protected]

GCTuba said:


> Just talked to Monoprice and they said 5-7 business days and to expect it by December 1st. The wait is agonizing


It's almost like a puzzle being solved. Which cable fits which instruction set. May be we should create a list/table at the start of this thread to say these cables tested and worked for these hdmi 2.1 sets. Food for thought. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Waiting for your results on monoprice ones. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


At that length the best bet would be to use a Zeskit certified UHS HDMI cable. Monoprice is just a reseller, they do not make their own cables. Mfrs like Zeskit and Ruipro (who will be releasing their certified UHS HDMI cable in mid-January) have total control over how their cables are made and certified.


----------



## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> It's almost like a puzzle being solved. Which cable fits which instruction set. May be we should create a list/table at the start of this thread to say these cables tested and worked for these hdmi 2.1 sets. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Anything over 15' for the HDMI 2.1 options sets is going to be trial and error, period. No cable has a 100% guarantee to work with all devices and installations. A certified UHS HDMI cable, passive with the QR label from someone like Zeskit and soon Ruipro is going to be your best bet for reliability and compatibility.


----------



## gbynum

Soul_ said:


> So far I moved my PC next to my TV and getting 4k120 444 with 12 bit colour, with a passive 6ft cable no problem.


I think the LG in your sig is 10 bit; what set do you have that is 12 bit?


----------



## GCTuba

[email protected] said:


> It's almost like a puzzle being solved. Which cable fits which instruction set. May be we should create a list/table at the start of this thread to say these cables tested and worked for these hdmi 2.1 sets. Food for thought.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


I thought that's what this thread was supposed to be, that's why I posted here initially.


----------



## Otto Pylot

GCTuba said:


> I thought that's what this thread was supposed to be, that's why I posted here initially.


Zeskit
Ruipro (to be released in mid-January)
Belkin
AudioQuest
Rocketfish

In that order. Passive, 5m maximum length and all should have the QR label of authenticity, but read the specs very carefully. Ultra High Speed HDMI. 

The Zeskit cables have mixed labeling, some have the QR label and some don't have the QR label affixed because Zeskit didn't get the package labels in time. Both cables, they assure me, are exactly the same. Amazon US will randomly ship them until their stock of the un-labeled cables is depleted. Amzaon UK is not setup yet to distribute the Zeskit cables but will be in the next few weeks.


----------



## jugsta

I guess I should have reported that my Zeskit 5m cable (no UHS label) passed everything correctly directly from my XSX to my OLED CX (had to turn off Freesync in the CX's menus). I will wait on the Yamaha V6A/TSR700 firmware before attempting to integrate my new receiver (really hoping I don't have to have this one repaired/replaced). I am currently using an optical cable to send audio to the receiver as I didn't even want to fool around e-ARC and I am in not currently in need of lossless audio on this setup.


----------



## hunterkiller25

I also got a Ruipro Gen3B cable and it... mostly... works.
I have two displayport 1440p monitors and the 2.1 hdmi connected to an LG CX.
When I tried using the cable, one of the displayport monitors would shut off, and so would the TV. I eventually fixed this by running DDU (Display Driver Uninstaller) and re-installing my graphics card driver completely (I replaced a 970 with my new 3080). Now both my 1440p monitors and the LG CX are working simultaneously.

The cable 33' seems to work fine in a straight line/ partially coiled test run at 4K 120HZ 10bit 4:4:4, and I confirmed its running at 120hz using the blurbusters monitor test. But when I flip "HDR" on in windows it starts to stutter like its running 30 fps. I'm not sure if this is the fault of the cable or Window's god awful HDR implementation. I'll need to figure out if HDR gets enabled in games without that windows slider on.

My advice. Try Display Driver Uninstaller if you're having any issues with a new card before trying to RMA anything. Matter of fact, do it before doing any testing.


----------



## 5468467984

gbynum said:


> I think the LG in your sig is 10 bit; what set do you have that is 12 bit?


You are right, LG display is only 10bit. However, display limit and device's processing limits are two different topics, which rely on each other but mutually exclusive in terms of their limits. Even though C9 can display upto 10bit, it can certainly read all the way to 12bit and then normalize the frame as necessary to display on the screen, within the display's limits. This way my source is not deciding what to do with additional information, it is the TV deciding based on TVs limits.

Just a different way to think about where to best normalize the colours. I try to normalize as close to display as possible, while some try to truncate at the source.

I hope that sheds some light. Additionally, some graphics cards only support 8 bit and 12 bit mode. So would you rather limit 10 bit display to 8bit, or would rather send 12 bit input to the TV and let TV decide what to do with the extra 2 bits of info?

Food for thought.


----------



## alebonau

Soul_ said:


> ou are right, LG display is only 10bit. However, display limit and device's processing limits are two different topics, which rely on each other but mutually exclusive in terms of their limits. Even though C9 can display upto 10bit, it can certainly read all the way to 12bit and then normalize the frame as necessary to display on the screen, within the display's limits. This way my source is not deciding what to do with additional information, it is the TV deciding based on TVs limits.


are there any 12 bit displays ?


----------



## 5468467984

alebonau said:


> are there any 12 bit displays ?


Not to my knowledge. You need to hit around 10000nits to go 12 bit, which is near impossible with current production tech. The best we can do is 4000nits, which leaves us slightly better than 10bit, but massively shy from 10k nits target for 12 bit colour.


----------



## alebonau

Soul_ said:


> Not to my knowledge. You need to hit around 10000nits to go 12 bit, which is near impossible with current production tech. The best we can do is 4000nits, which leaves us slightly better than 10bit, but massively shy from 10k nits target for 12 bit colour.


my jvc projector i beleive operates at 12 bit... but yeah its no ways known anywhere near kind of nits talking here.

there is a 10000 nit display that sony have for mastering...but cant imagine too many folk with that sort of thing


----------



## 5468467984

alebonau said:


> my jvc projector i beleive operates at 12 bit... but yeah its no ways known anywhere near kind of nits talking here.
> 
> there is a 10000 nit display that sony have for mastering...but cant imagine too many folk with that sort of thing


True, I am guessing Sony, Dolby and media houses may have something like that. I think Dolby and its partners did a focus group study, where 90% of the subjects thought that 10k nits was more than enough for all specular highlight needs. Which is where the 12bit limit for Dolby Vision comes from, as that is the max a human "should" need to be visually satisfied.


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> Not to my knowledge. You need to hit around 10000nits to go 12 bit, which is near impossible with current production tech. The best we can do is 4000nits, which leaves us slightly better than 10bit, but massively shy from 10k nits target for 12 bit colour.


Max brightness and bit depth are independent of each other. You can have a 10-bit display that can hit 10,000 nits. You can also have a 12-bit display that's only 4000 nits.

For the PQ curve using RGB limited, 10,000 nits is 940 for 10-bit and 3760 for 12-bit (and 235 for 8-bit).


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> Which is where the 12bit limit for Dolby Vision comes from, as that is the max a human "should" need to be visually satisfied.


No, it's at 12 bits where human vision stops noticing banding.


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> Max brightness and bit depth are independent of each other. You can have a 10-bit display that can hit 10,000 nits. You can also have a 12-bit display that's only 4000 nits.
> 
> For the PQ curve using RGB limited, 10,000 nits is 940 for 10-bit and 3760 for 12-bit (and 235 for 8-bit).


Agreed, they are independent, but this is what was suggested by Dolby as a requirement for producing discernable 4096 shades of each colour to the edges of bt 2020.


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> No, it's at 12 bits where human vision stops noticing banding.


12 bits is where human vision stops noticing banding while ensuring that all colours in visual spectrum can be produced. Two things right. If you are only concerned about 709, you only need 8 bits to eliminate banding.


----------



## Jeff Saylor

MrJuggle said:


> CONFIRMED! GEN-3B cable (50ft, 15m) from RUIPRO works with RTX3090 and LG C9! The problem was that my windows install was not properly configured to output the desired resolutions. After a registry reset of the display configuration it now works!
> 
> 
> Just received my GEN-3B cable (50ft, 15m) from RUIPRO and sadly it does NOT work with my ASUS 3090 TUF and LG 9. I Can get 4k 4.2.0 8bit 60hz but that's it. Can go any higher and I'm not able to turn on Ultra Deep color. This is such a bummer...
> 
> I tried different HDMI ports, used the usb plug both at source and end it still does not work while the cable is on the floor.


Can you share what you changed in the registry to get your display working?


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> 12 bits is where human vision stops noticing banding while ensuring that all colours in visual spectrum can be produced. Two things right. If you are only concerned about 709, you only need 8 bits to eliminate banding.


Not the whole visual spectrum, just Rec 2020. We'd need more than three primaries to cover more of the visual spectrum. I'm really curious what they'll do next once 100% Rec 2020 becomes the norm.

I was just looking at some colour ramps at 8-bit SDR (Rec 709) and I could see banding. Pretty much gone at 10-bit. It's more noticeable for computer generated graphics than real life video where 8-bit is enough.


----------



## alebonau

Soul_ said:


> True, I am guessing Sony, Dolby and media houses may have something like that. I think Dolby and its partners did a focus group study, where 90% of the subjects thought that 10k nits was more than enough for all specular highlight needs. Which is where the 12bit limit for Dolby Vision comes from, as that is the max a human "should" need to be visually satisfied.


probably why dolby vision in commercial theatres run at 100nits


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> Not the whole visual spectrum, just Rec 2020. We'd need more than three primaries to cover more of the visual spectrum. I'm really curious what they'll do next once 100% Rec 2020 becomes the norm.
> 
> I was just looking at some colour ramps at 8-bit SDR (Rec 709) and I could see banding. Pretty much gone at 10-bit.


Correct, and which where my comment on 12bit at 10k nits being all we need to satisfy 90% of the population on visual fidelity of a display comes in.

I guess you are in 10%, damn stickler.


----------



## 5468467984

alebonau said:


> probably why dolby vision in commercial theatres run at 100nits


That is a very good point. I don't have enough information to give to you on that topic.


----------



## avernar

Soul_ said:


> I guess you are in 10%, damn stickler.


Darn tootin' ! I want 16bit!


----------



## 5468467984

avernar said:


> Darn tootin' ! I want 16bit!


I was thinking the exact same thing!! Stretching 12 bit to BT2020 might not be enough for you. You will need at least 16 bit to be satisfied at BT2020.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> are there any 12 bit displays ?


12-bit panels that are consumer cost friendly are a long ways off, as is 8k.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> 12-bit panels that are consumer cost friendly are a long ways off, as is 8k.


I’m seeing 65-75” 8K TV’s in the 2K-5K price ranew online.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

avernar said:


> I’m seeing 65-75” 8K TV’s in the 2K-5K price ranew online.


Please post a link


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> I’m seeing 65-75” 8K TV’s in the 2K-5K price ranew online.


Interesting. Kind of a waste if you ask me because there isn't any source material that can take advantage of it, unless one is upscaling from 4k. Still.......


----------



## avernar

Postmoderndesign said:


> Please post a link





https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?st=8k+tv


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Interesting. Kind of a waste if you ask me because there isn't any source material that can take advantage of it, unless one is upscaling from 4k. Still.......


Someone has to blink first.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> Someone has to blink first.


Very true, very true. But it ain't gonna be me  .


----------



## HDPERSON

Otto Pylot said:


> If all you're concerned with is eARC, then try a PHS HDMI cable with ethernet and see how that works. If it doesn't work, try another brand (Monoprice, BJC, MediaBridge). At 10', I would imagine that cable access is fairly easy? I sent an email to Zeskit yesterday asking them about the status of their labels. I'm supposed to get some cables from them to test.


 This afternoon Nov. 25, 2020 I received Zeskit 6.5' HDMI cable and the cable has the ULTRA HIGH SPEED CERTIFIED LABEL ON THE BOX. Well here is your certified 8-K cables.


----------



## HDPERSON

MrSniper1401 said:


> Anyone tried the Fusion8k hdmi cable on Amazon? I was going to get the Zeskit for 10ft runs but I can get the Fusion8k to my area quicker albeit for slightly higher price


Zeskit is officially certified by HDMI.Org as Ultra High Speed cable and it has the certified label on the box.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@HDPERSON Yes, as I've been saying for a quite some time now. Amazon stills have a mixed group of Zeskit cables, some with the QR label and some without. They will distribute them randomly until their inventory of un-labeled cables is depleted. After which they will only have the labeled HDMI cables. Both cables are the same. The certified line is called Maya. Zeskit sent me some but I haven't had time to install them yet.

Ruipro will have the UHS HDMI cables available in mid-January and I believe that Belkin, AudioQuest, and Rocketfish have QR labeled UHS HDMI cables as well.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

avernar said:


> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?st=8k+tv


But, But, But 8K Reality check!!!!! 8K TV is here (already), but don't be afraid


----------



## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> But, But, But 8K Reality chek!!!!! 8K TV is here (already), but don't be afraid


And the point would be...... upscaled 4k to 8k? The industry can't even get 4k HDR HDMI 2.1 right beyond 15'. Pure marketing so I think I'll wait. Any native 8k material to really show what it can do?


----------



## Cordy

Otto Pylot said:


> Well, let us know how it works out. 30' might be an ok distance depending on the installation.


I finally got a PS5 this week and was able to test this cable with it. For me at least I can confirm it supports 4K120 with the PS5 and my AVR. My PS5 is connected to a Marantz SR7015 with it's in box HDMI cable and then the AVR to LG C9 eARC Port using the Wireworld 30' HDMI cable. I've been playing Borderlands 3 in it's performance mode and haven't had any issues. The first time I switched to the mode it did blank the screen but it seemed to be a handshake issue. I've been able to toggle between modes without issue subsequently and confirmed using PS5 and AVR menus. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

Cordy said:


> I finally got a PS5 this week and was able to test this cable with it. For me at least I can confirm it supports 4K120 with the PS5 and my AVR. My PS5 is connected to a Marantz SR7015 with it's in box HDMI cable and then the AVR to LG C9 eARC Port using the Wireworld 30' HDMI cable. I've been playing Borderlands 3 in it's performance mode and haven't had any issues. The first time I switched to the mode it did blank the screen but it seemed to be a handshake issue. I've been able to toggle between modes without issue subsequently and confirmed using PS5 and AVR menus.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Excellent. I think there will always be a little bit of handshaking (slight delay switching sources, etc) but I think that's to be expected with long active cables. I've even seen that on short run hybrid fiber cables.


----------



## Daytraders

If your using avr, just set the delay there to compensate maybe ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Daytraders said:


> If your using avr, just set the delay there to compensate maybe ?


I think the delay adjustment on the avr's is for audio issues. Not communication between the source/sink and the cable in-between. The "delay" between switching sources is about 3-5 seconds on my systems, sometimes less. Even passive cables exhibit slight delay at times when switching sources, and then it's the audio kicking in after the video. At least on my two HTSs. Not a big deal for me.


----------



## Daytraders

Otto Pylot said:


> I think the delay adjustment on the avr's is for audio issues. Not communication between the source/sink and the cable in-between. The "delay" between switching sources is about 3-5 seconds on my systems, sometimes less. Even passive cables exhibit slight delay at times when switching sources, and then it's the audio kicking in after the video. At least on my two HTSs. Not a big deal for me.


Silly me, i replied to a completely different post  forget what i wrote above.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Daytraders said:


> Silly me, i replied to a completely different post  forget what i wrote above.


Not to worry. It happens to the best of us  .


----------



## athiaccs

Think I got unlucky with the 5m Zeskit, I can only run at 8bpc from my 3080 and even then I get a lot of flickering blackouts. If I run at 10bpc I pretty much constantly get strange color artifacts. Hopefully I can get a working replacement, don't wanna shell out the extra dough for a fibre ruipro unless I absolutely have to.


----------



## Otto Pylot

athiaccs said:


> Think I got unlucky with the 5m Zeskit, I can only run at 8bpc from my 3080 and even then I get a lot of flickering blackouts. If I run at 10bpc I pretty much constantly get strange color artifacts. Hopefully I can get a working replacement, don't wanna shell out the extra dough for a fibre ruipro unless I absolutely have to.


I'm surprised that the Zeskit cable didn't work. It's passive so there aren't any chipests in the connector ends so compatibility is a non-issue. How do you have it installed? I know that when I was testing mine a couple of days ago, thickness due to the wire gauge needed for the requirements of HDMI 2.1 resulted in a narrow bend radius so you need to be extra careful with how you have the cable installed (no sharp bends and no no undue strain on the HDMI ports).


----------



## athiaccs

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm surprised that the Zeskit cable didn't work. It's passive so there aren't any chipests in the connector ends so compatibility is a non-issue. How do you have it installed? I know that when I was testing mine a couple of days ago, thickness due to the wire gauge needed for the requirements of HDMI 2.1 resulted in a narrow bend radius so you need to be extra careful with how you have the cable installed (no sharp bends and no no undue strain on the HDMI ports).


It's very close to a straight line path, the sharpest bends are the connections on both ends and they still have ~15cm of clearance between the wall and the hdmi port.


----------



## Otto Pylot

athiaccs said:


> It's very close to a straight line path, the sharpest bends are the connections on both ends and they still have ~15cm of clearance between the wall and the hdmi port.


Hmmm, 15cm is about 6 inches. Even tho my cables are gently looped, they are connected pretty much straight in with no pressure (by having the cable pressed against the wall) at all. 6 inches should be enough tho. It could be that you have one of the 3080 GPUs with the buggy HDMI chipsets. Is there any way you can move your equipment around a bit, as a test, to give you more space at the connector ends? If doing that doesn't resolve the issue, then contact Zeskit and see if they will send you a replacement. Did you get one of their cables that had the QR labeling on the package? They told me that the cables are identical (with the label and without the label) but one never knows. If the replacement cable still doesn't resolve your issue with a careful installation, then it's either a setting (source or sink) or possibly a defective chipset in the 3080. Ruipro has a very good return policy if you want to go that route. I know they took great pains to tweak their hybrid fiber cables to play nice with the 3080/3090 chipsets and the LG C9/CX. I don't think you said what your display was.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

My buddy is currently looking at a 50 foot run, and needs a cable. It only needs to do 18gbps, so whatever the latest spec of HDMI 2.0 is. I'm curious if he should buy a cable that supports the higher 48gbps 2.1 though. Future proof? I doubt he's getting an 8k projector anytime soon - but the idea floats through my mind. 

Is there a reliability difference between a cable that works perfect for 18gbps, and a cable that is suggested for 48gbps but will only be used for 18gbps?


----------



## Otto Pylot

As stated many times before, the ONLY way to future proof a long cable run is to use a conduit (in-wall installation) if you don't have easy access to the cable. Video standards will always outpace connection standards so as you upgrade your equipment chances are you will be needing to upgrade your cabling as well. Distances longer than 25' can be very problematic for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and especially for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. ARC/eARC can be especially problematic. HDMI 2.0 is spec'd around an 18Gbps bandwidth, HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Even if a cable can carry a slightly higher bandwidth (depending on what the source is sending), the HDMI 2.x option sets are spec'd around 18Gbps or 48Gbps. 4k HDR can be finicky with its cable connections (distance and installation) so it's still pretty much trial and error at 50'.

So, at 50' for 4k HDR he could try an active copper-based cable, of which there are lots to pick from, or a higher end hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k. The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. That being said, active cables require a power draw from the HDMI port and there are reports that some projectors do not have a consistent 50mA current output which can cause issues with the signal (flickering, drop outs, etc). Nothing has really been proven that that's the case but issues have been corrected in some cases with the use of a voltage inserter. Other folks have just slapped on an active cable to their projector and never looked back.


----------



## helvetica bold

Wooo! Excited this is my first certified ultra high speed cable.  Going to use it with the PS5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bacongineer

Otto Pylot said:


> It could be that you have one of the 3080 GPUs with the buggy HDMI chipsets.


The buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets are only used in 2020 AVRs, not RTX GPUs.


----------



## athiaccs

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, 15cm is about 6 inches. Even tho my cables are gently looped, they are connected pretty much straight in with no pressure (by having the cable pressed against the wall) at all. 6 inches should be enough tho. It could be that you have one of the 3080 GPUs with the buggy HDMI chipsets. Is there any way you can move your equipment around a bit, as a test, to give you more space at the connector ends? If doing that doesn't resolve the issue, then contact Zeskit and see if they will send you a replacement. Did you get one of their cables that had the QR labeling on the package? They told me that the cables are identical (with the label and without the label) but one never knows. If the replacement cable still doesn't resolve your issue with a careful installation, then it's either a setting (source or sink) or possibly a defective chipset in the 3080. Ruipro has a very good return policy if you want to go that route. I know they took great pains to tweak their hybrid fiber cables to play nice with the 3080/3090 chipsets and the LG C9/CX. I don't think you said what your display was.


Ah the tv is a CX, and yep I'll move them even further from the wall temporarily and see how it goes, will report back. In the meantime I've already contacted Zeskit, can't hurt to start organising a replacement. Box had no QR label on the package.


----------



## Otto Pylot

athiaccs said:


> Ah the tv is a CX, and yep I'll move them even further from the wall temporarily and see how it goes, will report back. In the meantime I've already contacted Zeskit, can't hurt to start organising a replacement. Box had no QR label on the package.


What Zeskit told me is that while the cables are supposedly the same, Amazon controls the inventory and will randomly distribute the QR labeld cables as well as the un-labled cables until the unlabeled cable inventory is depleted. The QR labeled cables will have the label on the box and the cables will be called Maya.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Bacongineer said:


> The buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets are only used in 2020 AVRs, not RTX GPUs.


The report that I read indicated that the buggy chipsets did include the RTX GPUs so who knows.


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Wooo! Excited this is my first certified ultra high speed cable.  Going to use it with the PS5.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep. That's what Zeskit sent me for testing purposes. Just be careful that you don't bend the cables too sharply because that will affect the signaling. I had to redo my cables with a much gentler loop that I had orginally used. I don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices but even so, I was not getting a reliable picture or audio until I made the adjustment.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> As stated many times before, the ONLY way to future proof a long cable run is to use a conduit (in-wall installation) if you don't have easy access to the cable. Video standards will always outpace connection standards so as you upgrade your equipment chances are you will be needing to upgrade your cabling as well. Distances longer than 25' can be very problematic for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and especially for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. ARC/eARC can be especially problematic. HDMI 2.0 is spec'd around an 18Gbps bandwidth, HDMI 2.1 48Gbps. Even if a cable can carry a slightly higher bandwidth (depending on what the source is sending), the HDMI 2.x option sets are spec'd around 18Gbps or 48Gbps. 4k HDR can be finicky with its cable connections (distance and installation) so it's still pretty much trial and error at 50'.
> 
> So, at 50' for 4k HDR he could try an active copper-based cable, of which there are lots to pick from, or a higher end hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro4k. The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. That being said, active cables require a power draw from the HDMI port and there are reports that some projectors do not have a consistent 50mA current output which can cause issues with the signal (flickering, drop outs, etc). Nothing has really been proven that that's the case but issues have been corrected in some cases with the use of a voltage inserter. Other folks have just slapped on an active cable to their projector and never looked back.


Thanks for the reply. I currently run non-active cables, all under 20 feet - so moving into territory like this is new to me. I have no broken connections and run all brush plates, so I covered that with him as well. 

I chatted with him today and several things came up. 

1. The run is 30 feet. He has a Sony VW285ES projector. 

2. He’s currently using these active cables. I don’t know anything about them. 



https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00SEJPGDK/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1



3. He has a wall plate he’s running it through, that has an HDMI connector. 

4. There is a receiver in the mix as well, a Sony STR-DH770

I’ve advised him to get rid of the wall plate and install a brush plate, for a constant connection. I don’t know anything about those active cables he’s using, other than they’re active. Are they a decent brand?


----------



## 5468467984

Bit of an update guys, I received the RUIPro Gen3-B cable today, and it was clearly marked as Gen3-B on the tag. I was able to run 4k 120Hz 444 at 12bit, from my 3080 to C9 just fine at 50ft distance. I did not use the included power injector, cable seems to work without it just fine.

Will keep this thread in loop if I find any issues, but so far so good.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Bit of an update guys, I received the RUIPro Gen3-B cable today, and it was clearly marked as Gen3-B on the tag. I was able to run 4k 120Hz 444 at 12bit, from my 3080 to C9 just fine at 50ft distance. I did not use the included power injector, cable seems to work without it just fine.
> 
> Will keep this thread in loop if I find any issues, but so far so good.


Excellent. Yeah, if you don't need the voltage inserter, then just don't use it. The fewer the dongles, the better.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Thanks for the reply. I currently run non-active cables, all under 20 feet - so moving into territory like this is new to me. I have no broken connections and run all brush plates, so I covered that with him as well.
> 
> I chatted with him today and several things came up.
> 
> 1. The run is 30 feet. He has a Sony VW285ES projector.
> 
> 2. He’s currently using these active cables. I don’t know anything about them.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00SEJPGDK/ref=ya_aw_od_pi?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> 3. He has a wall plate he’s running it through, that has an HDMI connector.
> 
> 4. There is a receiver in the mix as well, a Sony STR-DH770
> 
> I’ve advised him to get rid of the wall plate and install a brush plate, for a constant connection. I don’t know anything about those active cables he’s using, other than they’re active. Are they a decent brand?


There is nothing in the cable's product description that indicates it is an active copper-only cable. You can always tell because one end will be marked as Source and the other end marked as Sink or TV. Active cables are directional. Passive cables can be installed at either orientation. It appears to be a passive cable with all of the marketing b.s.


----------



## athiaccs

Otto Pylot said:


> What Zeskit told me is that while the cables are supposedly the same, Amazon controls the inventory and will randomly distribute the QR labeld cables as well as the un-labled cables until the unlabeled cable inventory is depleted. The QR labeled cables will have the label on the box and the cables will be called Maya.


Wow you might've been on to something. I literally only added maybe another 3cm of slack to the cable on my PC end and its been running flawlessly at 4k/120/10bit for a couple hours now, thanks!


----------



## helvetica bold

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. That's what Zeskit sent me for testing purposes. Just be careful that you don't bend the cables too sharply because that will affect the signaling. I had to redo my cables with a much gentler loop that I had orginally used. I don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices but even so, I was not getting a reliable picture or audio until I made the adjustment.


Thanks for the advice! The Zeskit cable is about twice the thickness of the PS5 and Series X HDMI cables. The packaging and cable look premium. However I’m holding off from using it until I figure out how to create a gentler loop like you mentioned. 
I wonder if Monoprice will come out with a slimline ultra high speed cable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> There is nothing in the cable's product description that indicates it is an active copper-only cable. You can always tell because one end will be marked as Source and the other end marked as Sink or TV. Active cables are directional. Passive cables can be installed at either orientation. It appears to be a passive cable with all of the marketing b.s.


I agree that it’s more than likely a bunch of marketing BS. It mentions “active” a single spot buried down in the description. You’d think if it really was active it’d be marketed differently. 

Anyway - what cable would you suggest in his instance at 30-35 feet?


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> Thanks for the advice! The Zeskit cable is about twice the thickness of the PS5 and Series X HDMI cables. The packaging and cable look premium. However I’m holding off from using it until I figure out how to create a gentler loop like you mentioned.
> I wonder if Monoprice will come out with a slimline ultra high speed cable.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it's a passive cable, probably not because the bigger wire gauge is necessary to maintain the bandwidth for HDMI 2.1. If you go with an active cable because space is tight, then Ruipro 8k is what is recommended, albeit a bit expensive for 15'. As long as you keep the loop a nice even circular bend with no crimping at all it should work. I have zero issues with the HDMI 2.0 option sets but I have no HDMI 2.1 devices to connect and test with. I'm not a gamer and HDMI 2.1 is really only useful at this point in time for the gamers.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> I agree that it’s more than likely a bunch of marketing BS. It mentions “active” a single spot buried down in the description. You’d think if it really was active it’d be marketed differently.
> 
> Anyway - what cable would you suggest in his instance at 30-35 feet?


I must've missed the "active" mention. Usually when they show closeup pictures of the connectors you can see "Source" and "Sink/TV". Makes me suspicious.

At 30'-35' if he wants to just push 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0 options) then the Ruipro 4k should work just fine. If he has plans on pushing any of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, then the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b.

If he's using a wall plate I assume his cable run is in-wall. If that's the case, is he using a conduit because that is really the ONLY way to future-proof his cabling? If he does have a conduit in place hopefully he's also installed a pull string because that makes fishing the cable a lot easier, and safer. If not, then he needs to be very careful fishing an active cable because he doesn't want to damage the connector ends. An active cable is also another reason not to use wall plates, adapters, extenders etc because the cable needs to connect directly to some sort of power source (HDMI port, 5v/50mA).


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. Yeah, if you don't need the voltage inserter, then just don't use it. The fewer the dongles, the better.


Agreed, I just put it into my "dongle box".


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> Agreed, I just put it into my "dongle box".


😁 I have about 8 voltage inserters from Ruipro sitting in the "HDMI drawer" of my electronics file cabinet.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> I must've missed the "active" mention. Usually when they show closeup pictures of the connectors you can see "Source" and "Sink/TV". Makes me suspicious.
> 
> At 30'-35' if he wants to just push 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0 options) then the Ruipro 4k should work just fine. If he has plans on pushing any of the HDMI 2.1 option sets, then the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b.
> 
> If he's using a wall plate I assume his cable run is in-wall. If that's the case, is he using a conduit because that is really the ONLY way to future-proof his cabling? If he does have a conduit in place hopefully he's also installed a pull string because that makes fishing the cable a lot easier, and safer. If not, then he needs to be very careful fishing an active cable because he doesn't want to damage the connector ends. An active cable is also another reason not to use wall plates, adapters, extenders etc because the cable needs to connect directly to some sort of power source (HDMI port, 5v/50mA).


I HIGHLY doubt he’s using conduit. I do in my room, since space is tight. There is an existing cable in his room there currently, and it’s a second story room with a walk in attic. I’ll check with him tomorrow. 

I was thinking either of these cables would work. 


RUIPRO CL2 Rated Fiber HDMI Cable 40 feet 4K60Hz HDMI2.0b 18Gbps ARC HDR10 HDCP2.2 YUV4:4:4 Slim Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 12m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B4LWDK1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_GTCWFb5FG73ED


Fiber HDMI Cable RUIPRO 4K60HZ 33 feet Light Speed HDMI2.0b Cable, Supports 18.2 Gbps, ARC, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4, Ultra Slim and Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 10m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XGDFCSC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_HPDWFbKR5FH25?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Does it need to be CL2?

Or is there another model Ruipro I should look at?


----------



## Agent6er

FYI for those waiting:
Zeskit 5m cable is out of stock on amazon(more due in a few days) so I'm guessing all those will be labeled now


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> I HIGHLY doubt he’s using conduit. I do in my room, since space is tight. There is an existing cable in his room there currently, and it’s a second story room with a walk in attic. I’ll check with him tomorrow.
> 
> I was thinking either of these cables would work.
> 
> 
> RUIPRO CL2 Rated Fiber HDMI Cable 40 feet 4K60Hz HDMI2.0b 18Gbps ARC HDR10 HDCP2.2 YUV4:4:4 Slim Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 12m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B4LWDK1/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_GTCWFb5FG73ED
> 
> 
> Fiber HDMI Cable RUIPRO 4K60HZ 33 feet Light Speed HDMI2.0b Cable, Supports 18.2 Gbps, ARC, HDR10, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4, Ultra Slim and Flexible HDMI Optic Cable with Optic Technology 10m https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XGDFCSC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_HPDWFbKR5FH25?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Does it need to be CL2?
> 
> Or is there another model Ruipro I should look at?


CL2 is a fire rating so that's up to him if wants a fire rated cable or not. It may be building code where he lives but that's up to him. The downside of a CL rated cable is that they are usually a little bit thicker due to the requirements of the cable jacket for fire rating so there will be some loss of flexibility.

Those are basically the same cable, only the length is different and one is fire rate and one is not. Performance-wise they should be the same. If he doesn't have a conduit, then with any cable that he purchases its always best to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installation to make sure it meets his needs. If it does, and then doesn't work after installation, then the installation process damaged the cable. That's usually caused by pulling the cable from the connector end or forcing it around a sharp bend in the wall (a stud for example). For the best that Ruipro has to offer as far as 4k HDR HDMI 2.0 options go is the Ruipro 4k.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> CL2 is a fire rating so that's up to him if wants a fire rated cable or not. It may be building code where he lives but that's up to him. The downside of a CL rated cable is that they are usually a little bit thicker due to the requirements of the cable jacket for fire rating so there will be some loss of flexibility.
> 
> Those are basically the same cable, only the length is different and one is fire rate and one is not. Performance-wise they should be the same. If he doesn't have a conduit, then with any cable that he purchases its always best to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before installation to make sure it meets his needs. If it does, and then doesn't work after installation, then the installation process damaged the cable. That's usually caused by pulling the cable from the connector end or forcing it around a sharp bend in the wall (a stud for example). For the best that Ruipro has to offer as far as 4k HDR HDMI 2.0 options go is the Ruipro 4k.


Got it. That’s the cable(s)I just linked there, correct? The one you’re saying is the best they have to offer?


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Got it. That’s the cable(s)I just linked there, correct? The one you’re saying is the best they have to offer?


No, that's not what I said. Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 option sets) and Ruipro 8k Gen-3b (HDMI 2.1 option sets) are the best that they currently offer for hybrid fiber cables.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> No, that's not what I said. Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 option sets) and Ruipro 8k Gen-3b (HDMI 2.1 option sets) are the best that they currently offer for hybrid fiber cables.


Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Do you have a link to those?


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. Do you have a link to those?


Amazon carries them. Just search or Google.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> Amazon carries them. Just search or Google.


Doing so, only brings up the cables above on Amazon and these:

RUIPRO Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50FT HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Active Optical Cable (AOC) / UHD 4K 60FPS 4:4:4 201A https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NVFKZNH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_okQWFbTTHTRGF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

...that are marketed at 4K. All others are marketed at 8K. 

Even looking at their website suggests the cables I linked several posts above are the latest cables. Your post history also suggests in reading a post from June that the newly updated cables with new CL2 rating are on Amazon - are these several posts above. 

So, I’m curious if there are others as you alluded to above, that are better, that are not those I linked several posts above. 

Any help? 

Honestly I mean no disrespect. I’m just trying to make sure I’m getting the right thing for my buddy. 

Based on what I can find, the two I posted up there above in a few posts appear to be it. Your comment above concerns me that it’s not though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ScottieBoysName said:


> Doing so, only brings up the cables above on Amazon and these:
> 
> RUIPRO Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50FT HDMI 2.0 18Gbps Active Optical Cable (AOC) / UHD 4K 60FPS 4:4:4 201A https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NVFKZNH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_okQWFbTTHTRGF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...that are marketed at 4K. All others are marketed at 8K.
> 
> Even looking at their website suggests the cables I linked several posts above are the latest cables. Your post history also suggests in reading a post from June that the newly updated cables with new CL2 rating are on Amazon - are these several posts above.
> 
> So, I’m curious if there are others as you alluded to above, that are better, that are not those I linked several posts above.
> 
> Any help?
> 
> Honestly I mean no disrespect. I’m just trying to make sure I’m getting the right thing for my buddy.
> 
> Based on what I can find, the two I posted up there above in a few posts appear to be it. Your comment above concerns me that it’s not though.


No disrepect taken. We're good. The product number SNAOC20V201A, which is what you linked to, is the older Ruipro 4k cable which they only sold for awhile because it had limited flexibility at the connector ends which could have been a problem for some. Performance was the same. Amazon is just clearing out old stock.

For the most current 4k cable: SNAOC20V102A_10 (the last digits are the length).
For the CL2 rated 4k cable: SNAOC20V102A_UL_10
For the current 8k cable: SNAOC21V101A_10 (it should also have a green tag that indicates Ruipro 8k Gen-3 or 3b).


----------



## ScottieBoysName

Otto Pylot said:


> No disrepect taken. We're good. The product number SNAOC20V201A, which is what you linked to, is the older Ruipro 4k cable which they only sold for awhile because it had limited flexibility at the connector ends which could have been a problem for some. Performance was the same. Amazon is just clearing out old stock.
> 
> For the most current 4k cable: SNAOC20V102A_10 (the last digits are the length).
> For the CL2 rated 4k cable: SNAOC20V102A_UL_10
> For the current 8k cable: SNAOC21V101A_10 (it should also have a green tag that indicates Ruipro 8k Gen-3 or 3b).


Thanks man! I really appreciate it. 100%. I’ll look for that and report back.


----------



## JAYSONE

I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.

It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?


----------



## Otto Pylot

JAYSONE said:


> I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.
> 
> It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?
> 
> View attachment 3061465


No. Who did you purchase it from? If it was the cables that Amazon is selling, they should come in a nice box, labeled as Maya with the QR label of authenticity on the outside. The barcode doesn't look anything like the ones that I have. It may be the first gen of Zeskit cables before they were updated and certified but there is just no way of knowing. It could also be a very good counterfeit.


----------



## ScottieBoysName

JAYSONE said:


> I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.
> 
> It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?
> 
> View attachment 3061465


Is it possible you purchased from a vendor “sold by” or “fulfilled by” Amazon instead of Amazon?


----------



## JAYSONE

ScottieBoysName said:


> Is it possible you purchased from a vendor “sold by” or “fulfilled by” Amazon instead of Amazon?


Sold by Zeskit and fulfilled by Amazon


----------



## Otto Pylot

JAYSONE said:


> Sold by Zeskit and fulfilled by Amazon


This is what the cable should come packaged as, courtesy of @helvetica bold :


----------



## ScottieBoysName

JAYSONE said:


> Sold by Zeskit and fulfilled by Amazon


Gotcha. Just curious. I’ve had that happen to me.


----------



## HDPERSON

ScottieBoysName said:


> Gotcha. Just curious. I’ve had that happen to me.


Rocketfish from Best Buy is also certified for ultra high speed hdmi. The label is on the box.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDPERSON said:


> Rocketfish from Best Buy is also certified for ultra high speed hdmi. The label is on the box.


Yeah, but that's a Rocketfish cable . Certified UHS HDMI cables;

Zeskit
Ruipro (to be released in January)
Belkin
Audioquest
Rocketfish

In that order 😁


----------



## jp3189n

JAYSONE said:


> I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.
> 
> It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?
> 
> View attachment 3061465


I just bought 5 of these (sold by Zeskit, fulfilled by Amazon) and they are on the way. If I get it without the box I will return it. For me it’s not a guarantee that they are legit seeing other people with the right packaging. I’ll let you know in the following days.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jp3189n said:


> I just bought 5 of these (sold by Zeskit, fulfilled by Amazon) and they are on the way. If I get it without the box I will return it. For me it’s not a guarantee that they are legit seeing other people with the right packaging. I’ll let you know in the following days.


Zeskit sent the cables directly to me for testing purposes and they came just like the pic that @helvetica bold posted, and I believe he ordered them thru Amazon. I might check with Zeskit because they told me that Amazon has control of the inventory and they would be randomly distributing the cables with and without the QR labels until their inventory of un-labled cables was depleted. However, they should still be in the nice boxes that Zeskit ships in and not just in a plastic bag. Something is fishy with these.


----------



## helvetica bold

JAYSONE said:


> I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.
> 
> It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?
> 
> View attachment 3061465


That’s basically what it looked like when I opened my box. It’s weird you received it w/out a box otherwise it appears fine. My cable had exactly the same foam at the end of the cables. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> That’s basically what it looked like when I opened my box. It’s weird you received it w/out a box otherwise it appears fine. My cable had exactly the same foam at the end of the cables.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ruipro packages their connector ends with the same type of foam packing so that may be a standard way of protecting the connectors from getting scratched when shipping. Maybe Amazon is removing the cables from the un-labled boxes? There should also be a Troubleshooting card, a foldout card with the other Zeskit products offered by Amazon, a Zeskit comment card, and a little Like the Product card for sharing a review on Amazon. The connector ends are half black on the bottom half and a steely gray top half that is stamped the Zeskit 8k on one side and HDMI on the other side,


----------



## christofin

Does anyone know the difference between the Ruipro Gen 3 and Ruipro Gen 3-B cables? I have a Gen 3 and aside from very occasional dropouts in the audio (which I think is an LG eARC issue in the TV firmware) and occasional blackscreens when launching games, it seems to work at the full bandwidth without issue. I'm wondering if I should return my Gen 3 and get a Gen 3B cable before it's too late.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Does anyone know the difference between the Ruipro Gen 3 and Ruipro Gen 3-B cables? I have a Gen 3 and aside from very occasional dropouts in the audio (which I think is an LG eARC issue in the TV firmware) and occasional blackscreens when launching games, it seems to work at the full bandwidth without issue. I'm wondering if I should return my Gen 3 and get a Gen 3B cable before it's too late.


Ruipro had to make some additional tweaks to their Gen-3 cable to resolve some device compatibility issues. Some folks with the Gen-3 cable had no issues at all, others did and the Gen-3b seemed to have alleviated those. I've always been of the school if it ain't broke, don't fix it  . eARC has its own set of problems as well, distance being one but that was the idea for active cables and the necessary tweaks that the various hybrid cable mfrs needed to work out. Ruipro does offer a good warranty so you might want to check with them and see what they say. They might send you a 3b to check out and if no difference, return it or the Gen-3. I can't speak for them but it might be worth a try.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro had to make some additional tweaks to their Gen-3 cable to resolve some device compatibility issues. Some folks with the Gen-3 cable had no issues at all, others did and the Gen-3b seemed to have alleviated those. I've always been of the school if it ain't broke, don't fix it  . eARC has its own set of problems as well, distance being one but that was the idea for active cables and the necessary tweaks that the various hybrid cable mfrs needed to work out. Ruipro does offer a good warranty so you might want to check with them and see what they say. They might send you a 3b to check out and if no difference, return it or the Gen-3. I can't speak for them but it might be worth a try.


Thanks as always, was hoping to get a response from you. I'll monitor it over the next few weeks as I have until January to make a decision. It took so long to get a working cable at this length so I think I'll follow that philosophy.


----------



## HDPERSON

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, but that's a Rocketfish cable . Certified UHS HDMI cables;
> 
> Zeskit
> Ruipro (to be released in January)
> Belkin
> Audioquest
> Rocketfish
> 
> In that order 😁


I had Ruipro 8k and it was junk, I got angry and threw it out. Belkin is certified?, Did you try Rocketfish certified ultra high speed cable or is it more of your slanted way of looking at things? I have read a lot of your advice and it is UHS


----------



## Otto Pylot

HDPERSON said:


> I had Ruipro 8k and it was junk, I got angry and threw it out. Belkin is certified?, Did you try Rocketfish certified ultra high speed cable or is it more of your slanted way of looking at things? I have read a lot of your advice and it is UHS


Can't please everyone. I've used Rocketfish in the past and while they do make good cables (most of the time) I've found them to be overpriced, like Monster, and there are other cables that are just as good and reliable at less cost. Belkin is supposed to have a certified cable now (after their rather dubious claims) a year or so ago. No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cables will work but Ruipro, as far as the hybrid fiber cables go have a very good reputation and customer support that is excellent. Zeskit, as far as certified UHS HDMI cables go seem to be following the same path.


----------



## stuup1dmofo

HDPERSON said:


> I had Ruipro 8k and it was junk, I got angry and threw it out. Belkin is certified?, Did you try Rocketfish certified ultra high speed cable or is it more of your slanted way of looking at things? I have read a lot of your advice and it is UHS


The original Ruipro 8k cable was incompatible with my C9 and RTX 3080, but the latest Gen 3 cable is great (hence not junk). Ruipro provided me and several others here with excellent support the whole way through. Heck, they sent me 3 cables without asking for any back and responded within a day of each of my inquiries. That is some of the best customer service I've seen from a company.

Not sure why you would get so mad at a 160 dollar cable as to throw it away without first trying to have a company remediate the problem. They would've sent you a newer revision had you asked.


----------



## HomieTheClown

For you guys who are using conduits in the wall, Can you tell me what size you used for only an HDMI cable? I've read people using 1.5 inch which seems way to big for a single HDMI cable. My concern is if it's 1.5 inch inner diameter then the OD is going to be 1.75" or more which seems like a pretty dang big hole to be drilling into my header boards to run through the attic. Before I went that route I wanted to see exactly what size you guys are using to run cables through the attic. Also is there a certain brand conduit everyone here uses? Gracias


----------



## Postmoderndesign

HomieTheClown said:


> For you guys who are using conduits in the wall, Can you tell me what size you used for only an HDMI cable? I've read people using 1.5 inch which seems way to big for a single HDMI cable. My concern is if it's 1.5 inch inner diameter then the OD is going to be 1.75" or more which seems like a pretty dang big hole to be drilling into my header boards to run through the attic. Before I went that route I wanted to see exactly what size you guys are using to run cables through the attic. Also is there a certain brand conduit everyone here uses? Gracias


You are right to be concerned about drilling large holes in you studs and headers. I use 2" conduit, but I thread my conduit through whatever open space is available. And there is metal reinforcing hardware you can add to your studs. The good thing about large diameter conduit is that once installed it will handle whatever cable becomes standard in the future.


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> For you guys who are using conduits in the wall, Can you tell me what size you used for only an HDMI cable? I've read people using 1.5 inch which seems way to big for a single HDMI cable. My concern is if it's 1.5 inch inner diameter then the OD is going to be 1.75" or more which seems like a pretty dang big hole to be drilling into my header boards to run through the attic. Before I went that route I wanted to see exactly what size you guys are using to run cables through the attic. Also is there a certain brand conduit everyone here uses? Gracias


A 1.5" - 2.0" conduit is large, no question about it but if you can safely install it, you won't be disappointed. A lot of folks also run solid core CAT-6 for future connections (extending your ethernet for example) or extra RG-6 for cable, etc. If you give yourself a decent service loop at both ends, you can coil up the extra cabel inside the j-box. The diameter also makes it easier to fish an HDMI cable (hybrid fiber for example) by allowing for a lot of space around the connector ends. A smooth interior conduit wall is also desirable because the ridged conduits may impeded the cable pull somewhat.

When I ran conduit, I only installed it in the wall space. Once inside the attic space, the cable was carefully laid out in the open space. Install a pull string as well because that makes cable pulls so much easier, and safer. When pulling a cable with a pull string, I'd attach another pull string to the cable being pulled so as to replace the string being used for the pull. That way I'd always have a pull string available.

Another consideration is this. If you are planning on pushing 4k HDR, then you want to use pass-through or brush plates because the most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Lay the cable out on the floor and test prior to installation.


----------



## GCTuba

[email protected] said:


> Waiting for your results on monoprice ones. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Finally received and installed my new cable and it works! 4K/120Hz/RGB Full/HDR/Gsync. There seems to be some flicker in dark scenes but that may be the Gsync flickering I've heard about and don't think it's the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

GCTuba said:


> Finally received and installed my new cable and it works! 4K/120Hz/RGB Full/HDR/Gsync. There seems to be some flicker in dark scenes but that may be the Gsync flickering I've heard about and don't think it's the cable.


Glad to hear you found a cable that works. Which cable did you get?


----------



## GCTuba

Otto Pylot said:


> Glad to hear you found a cable that works. Which cable did you get?







__





Monoprice 8K Slim Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 3ft - 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com


Ultra Slim 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation of HDMI cables. Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this future proofed cable just might be the last HDMI



www.monoprice.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

GCTuba said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K Slim Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 3ft - 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> Ultra Slim 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cables are the next generation of HDMI cables. Supporting resolutions up to [email protected] and 48Gbps bandwidth, this future proofed cable just might be the last HDMI
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com


At 3' it should work. However, they are marketing the cable as Ultra High Speed HDMI which implies certification, but there is no mention of an ATC certification nor is there mention of the QR label of authenticity. Monoprice is just a reseller, they don't mfr cables, so who knows who is making this cable and not following the marketing and labeling guidelines that HDMI.org requires. They also don't list which HDMI 2.1 options the cable supports, with the exception of VRR and eARC which, btw, is possible with HDMI 2.0. _"Fully supports all features found in the HDMI® 2.1 specification" _is vague at best and again does not support what HDMI.org states for product description. If the cable works and is reliable, that's the bottom line but it does raise a lot of red flags.


----------



## Bacongineer

I just received my Gen-3B cable from RUIPRO and this one works! 4K, RGB/4:4:4, 12-bit, HDR, 120Hz, G-Sync, eARC 😃

The Gen-3 cable didn't work for me previously. Really happy to finally be done with the hunt for a 15m "HDMI 2.1" cable!


----------



## hunterkiller25

Does anyone else have an issue with the RUIPRO cable where, if you have a TV (on the ruipro hdmi 2.1) and multiple monitors (on displayport) all plugged into an RTX 3080, that your monitors don't display anything until you turn your TV on? (then I can turn it off no problem)

Monitors are 1440p hp OMEN monitors running off displayport cables
TV is LG CX running off the RUIPRO gen3b cable

Only happens when the ruipro cable is plugged in. If its unplugged the displayport monitors work fine. Its a little annoying to have to turn my tv on and off every time i turn on my computer.


----------



## GCTuba

Otto Pylot said:


> At 3' it should work. However, they are marketing the cable as Ultra High Speed HDMI which implies certification, but there is no mention of an ATC certification nor is there mention of the QR label of authenticity. Monoprice is just a reseller, they don't mfr cables, so who knows who is making this cable and not following the marketing and labeling guidelines that HDMI.org requires. They also don't list which HDMI 2.1 options the cable supports, with the exception of VRR and eARC which, btw, is possible with HDMI 2.0. _"Fully supports all features found in the HDMI® 2.1 specification" _is vague at best and again does not support what HDMI.org states for product description. If the cable works and is reliable, that's the bottom line but it does raise a lot of red flags.


I'm not entirely sure why you're coming at me for my cable choice. It's not a certified cable if that's what you're wondering. I went with it because I've had good experiences with Monoprice in the past and it's relatively cheap. It's the second cable I've tried and I was going to try Zeskit next if it didn't work.


----------



## Bacongineer

hunterkiller25 said:


> Does anyone else have an issue with the RUIPRO cable where, if you have a TV (on the ruipro hdmi 2.1) and multiple monitors (on displayport) all plugged into an RTX 3080, that your monitors don't display anything until you turn your TV on? (then I can turn it off no problem)
> 
> Monitors are 1440p hp OMEN monitors running off displayport cables
> TV is LG CX running off the RUIPRO gen3b cable
> 
> Only happens when the ruipro cable is plugged in. If its unplugged the displayport monitors work fine. Its a little annoying to have to turn my tv on and off every time i turn on my computer.


I have 3 monitors plugged via DP into my 3080 FE + a LG C9 via HDMI with a RUIPRO Gen-3B and I don't seem to have that issue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

GCTuba said:


> I'm not entirely sure why you're coming at me for my cable choice. It's not a certified cable if that's what you're wondering. I went with it because I've had good experiences with Monoprice in the past and it's relatively cheap. It's the second cable I've tried and I was going to try Zeskit next if it didn't work.


I'm not coming at you. My response is more for the lurkers and folks who are afraid to ask a question. It's more for general knowledge if someone does a search and is not sure what all the marketing stuff means. No offense intended.


----------



## Balfazar

For those interested in compatibility with Samsung 2020 8K TVs (Q950TS), the 10m Ruipro Gen 3B cable appears to be working with my 3090. I now have 8k60 and 4k120 at 10 bit colour, the latter with VRR.

I had to use the power inserter on the GPU side as I found the signal was dropping in and out without it. I have the Asus 3090 with two HDMI ports and I am using the Nvidia port in line with the Displayports rather than the Asus-added HDMI.

I'm still getting occasional blue screens (exception in graphics driver) on the PC when enabling/disabling the TV as my primary display - perhaps due to excessive power draw through the HDMI ports? Doesn't prevent me from gaming as it works after a reboot. I'll continue to investigate this and welcome any suggestions on what may be causing it.


----------



## WaterlessStraw

Wanted to add another data point to the mix. Thanks to those who reported earlier in the thread what has/has not worked for them.

I received my 12m 8k Ruipro GEN3B cable yesterday and everything works correctly. My setup is an RTX 3080FE connected to an LG 65CX. 4k, 120hz, VRR, HDR all working and the picture looks great! All of this works without the included USB power inserter. The 3080FE is also connected to a 120hz AW3418DW 3440x1440 gsync display and a 60hz 1440p display set to portrait. I just turn the TV on/off when I want to game on the TV and I have no issues with other displays or switching between them so far.

Thanks all.


----------



## Otto Pylot

WaterlessStraw said:


> Wanted to add another data point to the mix. Thanks to those who reported earlier in the thread what has/has not worked for them.
> 
> I received my 12m 8k Ruipro GEN3B cable yesterday and everything works correctly. My setup is an RTX 3080FE connected to an LG 65CX. 4k, 120hz, VRR, HDR all working and the picture looks great! All of this works without the included USB power inserter.
> 
> Thanks all.


Excellent. Thanks for posting.


----------



## dpc123

I have tried to read through all 58 pages of this thread but not really finding an answer to what folks are using to consistently test 4k120 via PS5 and RTX 3080/3090 cards to their display. Can anyone point me to some sources to use? Much appreciated.

Also, I want to give kudos to RUIPRO as they have been extremely customer service focused on helping me with some faulty 8k fiber/hdmi cables. Should be receiving some new GEN3b cables to try directly from them and just want to do a consistent test.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dpc123 said:


> I have tried to read through all 58 pages of this thread but not really finding an answer to what folks are using to consistently test 4k120 via PS5 and RTX 3080/3090 cards to their display. Can anyone point me to some sources to use? Much appreciated.
> 
> Also, I want to give kudos to RUIPRO as they have been extremely customer service focused on helping me with some faulty 8k fiber/hdmi cables. Should be receiving some new GEN3b cables to try directly from them and just want to do a consistent test.


What do you mean by "test". The only definitive test is if you can successfully get what you want/need/expect without issues. The Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b cables seem to have the most positive reviews but no cable is guaranteed to work with all devices and setups.

How long is your run?


----------



## Zabojnik

Bacongineer said:


> I just received my Gen-3B cable from RUIPRO and this one works! 4K, RGB/4:4:4, 12-bit, HDR, 120Hz, G-Sync, eARC 😃
> 
> The Gen-3 cable didn't work for me previously. Really happy to finally be done with the hunt for a 15m "HDMI 2.1" cable!


Are you EU-based? Where did you get the 15m cable from? On Amazon.co.uk they go from 12m to 20m, so I'm guessing you got the 50' one they sell on the US Amazon?

Has anyone successfully tested the 20m / 65' Gen-3B cable with a 3XXX card and a C9?


----------



## dpc123

Otto Pylot said:


> What do you mean by "test". The only definitive test is if you can successfully get what you want/need/expect without issues. The Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b cables seem to have the most positive reviews but no cable is guaranteed to work with all devices and setups.
> 
> How long is your run?


Cables are 6m/20ft variant. Sources will be Nvidia Shield, Roku Ultra, PS5 and RTX 3090 to LG C7 (I know this won't support 120) and LG CX. All I'm trying to do is fine some test samples that I can repeatedly run to ensure I've tested all cables from their sources. I will probably just test all against RTX 3090 as it'll be the most demanding.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dpc123 said:


> Cables are 6m/20ft variant. Sources will be Nvidia Shield, Roku Ultra, PS5 and RTX 3090 to LG C7 (I know this won't support 120) and LG CX. All I'm trying to do is fine some test samples that I can repeatedly run to ensure I've tested all cables from their sources. I will probably just test all against RTX 3090 as it'll be the most demanding.


If your cable run was up to 5m (about 16') you could use certified, UHS HDMI cables with the QR label for authenticity. That being said, then a 6m hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b) would be your best choice. And being as there really isn't any source material to test with then pushing your GPU would be the best test. Besides, HDMI 2.1 is really for the gamers right now so the 3090 would be the best test platform.


----------



## AmishAnarchist

I'm just wondering how long it'll be before we can get reliable 2.1 cables for 15-20ft runs without paying a fortune for them. I can't believe the ones on monoprice are $130.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AmishAnarchist said:


> I'm just wondering how long it'll be before we can get reliable 2.1 cables for 15-20ft runs without paying a fortune for them. I can't believe the ones on monoprice are $130.


Unfortunately this is probably the best we're going to get. Passive, certified UHS HDMI cables (Zeskit) up to 5m (16') or hybrid fiber (Ruipro8k Gen-3b) beyond that. The technical challenges for the HDMI 2.1 options sets and long runs have proven to be very difficult. That's probably why HDMI.org only certifies up to 5m and will not certify active cables.


----------



## AmishAnarchist

Otto Pylot said:


> Unfortunately this is probably the best we're going to get. Passive, certified UHS HDMI cables (Zeskit) up to 5m (16') or hybrid fiber (Ruipro8k Gen-3b) beyond that. The technical challenges for the HDMI 2.1 options sets and long runs have proven to be very difficult. That's probably why HDMI.org only certifies up to 5m and will not certify active cables.


Hmm. I might try one of those Zeskit 16 footers. My old cables my PCs use are 20, but I'm hoping 16 will reach. I have my PCs in the basement below my room with cables run up through the floor. Of course, my current TV (LG CX) has all the ports on the far end of the TV. I want to stick my PS5 downstairs when I hook it up because I know they run hot, aren't silent like Xbox, and I despise the white. If the 16ft HDMI works, I can hopefully get away with a 9 or 12 ft USB 3.0 run to a hub for my controllers. Hopefully they work wired. No banking on BT going through the floor. lol


----------



## Otto Pylot

AmishAnarchist said:


> Hmm. I might try one of those Zeskit 16 footers. My old cables my PCs use are 20, but I'm hoping 16 will reach. I have my PCs in the basement below my room with cables run up through the floor. Of course, my current TV (LG CX) has all the ports on the far end of the TV. I want to stick my PS5 downstairs when I hook it up because I know they run hot, aren't silent like Xbox, and I despise the white. If the 16ft HDMI works, I can hopefully get away with a 9 or 12 ft USB 3.0 run to a hub for my controllers. Hopefully they work wired. No banking on BT going through the floor. lol


Keep in mind that the certified UHS HDMI cables are passive, so the wire gauge is thicker because of the bandwidth requirements of HDMI 2.1. This results in loss of flexibility (bend radius) so you need to be very careful that you don't have any sharp bends in the cable which can put undue stress on the HDMI ports, which is no bueno. It sounds like your setup would really push that so I'm thinking that using UHS HDMI cables is not going to work and you'd be back to a hybrid fiber cable. They are very flexible (because they are active) but you still want to be careful to not have any sharp, 90º bends in the cable. HDMI 2.1 (and really HDMI 2.0 as well) is very finicky with its cable connections so a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection.


----------



## Tanquen

AmishAnarchist said:


> I'm just wondering how long it'll be before we can get reliable 2.1 cables for 15-20ft runs without paying a fortune for them. I can't believe the ones on monoprice are $130.


I'm ok with that price if they work.


----------



## Gaco

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that the certified UHS HDMI cables are passive, so the wire gauge is thicker because of the bandwidth requirements of HDMI 2.1. This results in loss of flexibility (bend radius) so you need to be very careful that you don't have any sharp bends in the cable which can put undue stress on the HDMI ports, which is no bueno. It sounds like your setup would really push that so I'm thinking that using UHS HDMI cables is not going to work and you'd be back to a hybrid fiber cable. They are very flexible (because they are active) but you still want to be careful to not have any sharp, 90º bends in the cable. HDMI 2.1 (and really HDMI 2.0 as well) is very finicky with its cable connections so a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection.


That's good to know. Is this also the case for active cables, which I guess are optical and have a converter built-in in each end? I was thinking of buying an HDMI 48gbps 4k @ 120hz cable like this: 4XEM 10M 33FT HIGH SPEED ACTIVE OPTICAL FIBER HDMI 2.1 [email protected] [email protected] 7680 X 4320

Would use to connect my Gaming PC with my LG C9 OLED.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gaco said:


> That's good to know. Is this also the case for active cables, which I guess are optical and have a converter built-in in each end? I was thinking of buying an HDMI 48gbps 4k @ 120hz cable like this: 4XEM 10M 33FT HIGH SPEED ACTIVE OPTICAL FIBER HDMI 2.1 [email protected] [email protected] 7680 X 4320
> 
> Would use to connect my Gaming PC with my LG C9 OLED.


Hybrid fiber cables are active because they draw power from the HDMI ports, hence the wire gauge is much smaller and very flexible. You sill have to be a bit mindful of not having any sharp bends but for most installations that shouldn't be a problem if you have given yourself enough cable to work with. If this is an in-wall installation then the use of a conduit is highly recommended if you don't have easy access to the cable.

The cable you link to is a bit questionable in their product description. The cable is labeled as, "Ultra High Speed 2.1 HDMI AOC", which is close to the official name for certified cables, "Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. See the difference? However, HDMI.org does not allow for the certification of any type of active cables, so the product description is a bit of a "word salad" containing all of the buzz words to get your attention.

The cable would probably work but if you're going to spend that kind of money then I'd suggest the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b cable. They aren't cheap either but Ruipro has a very good reputation for build quality, excellent customer support, and a Lifetime Warranty.


----------



## Pip

Gaco said:


> That's good to know. Is this also the case for active cables, ...? I was thinking of buying an HDMI 48gbps 4k @ 120hz cable like this: 4XEM 10M 33FT HIGH SPEED ACTIVE OPTICAL FIBER HDMI 2.1 [email protected] [email protected] 7680 X 4320
> ...





Otto Pylot said:


> ...
> 
> The cable you link to is a bit questionable in their product description. The cable is labeled as, "Ultra High Speed 2.1 HDMI AOC", which is close to the official name for certified cables, "Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. See the difference? ...
> 
> The cable would probably work but if you're going to spend that kind of money then I'd suggest the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b cable. They aren't cheap either but Ruipro has a very good reputation for build quality, excellent customer support, and a Lifetime Warranty.


In addition to Ruipro's excellent reputation, they're about half the cost of the cable linked above.

Pip


----------



## mpcd

I was so happy with the 50ft RUIPRO Gen3B cable that I also picked up a 10ft passive cable RUIPRO 8k to go between my AVR and the TV. This was no good - the passive cable had frequent dropouts. The Zeskit seems to be a much better choice for passive cables and continues to work well. Originally I thought my eARC issues might be the Zeskit cable but I ended up discovering that my problems were elsewhere. 

I know that's the consensus in this thread but I wanted to share my experience.


----------



## Otto Pylot

mpcd said:


> I was so happy with the 50ft RUIPRO Gen3B cable that I also picked up a 10ft passive cable RUIPRO 8k to go between my AVR and the TV. This was no good - the passive cable had frequent dropouts. The Zeskit seems to be a much better choice for passive cables and continues to work well. Originally I thought my eARC issues might be the Zeskit cable but I ended up discovering that my problems were elsewhere.
> 
> I know that's the consensus in this thread but I wanted to share my experience.


For runs up to 5m (16'), the recommendation is to use the certified, passive, UHS HDMI cable from Zeskit. Ruipro will be coming out with a certified, UHS HDMI cable sometime in January.


----------



## indivision

First, thank you to those taking the time give advice and answer questions here.

I am wanting to learn more about CL ratings related to these longer cables. It seems like there is very limited use for cables longer than 15 feet that would not involve going into walls or ceiling spaces. That these long cables are still sold and considered without the CL rating raises some questions:

Are people skeptical that these cables pose any fire hazard at all when in a wall?
Is it too expensive for the manufacturers to conduct the testing needed to certify CL?
Are they just trying to avoid liability in case there is a fire involving a cable?
Is in-wall conduit fire-rated? Does it need to be?
If a non-CL rated cable is put into a conduit, does that render it "safe" equivalent to a CL rating?
Are good 8k cables with a CL rating ever coming out? If so, does anyone know of any expected dates/costs/brands?
And another question not related to CL:

I tried to look through as many pages in this discussion as I could (59 is a lot of pages). But, I couldn't find any info about progress toward the original purpose by the OP. Is there an update that I missed? Or, is their testing still ongoing?


----------



## grahamhgreen

Hello,

Could anyone tell me if the Zeskit passive, certified UHS HDMI cable 5m (16'), properly and reliably supports 48Gbps, and HDMI 2.1? 

Thank you!!!!


----------



## Pip

indivision said:


> First, thank you to those taking the time give advice and answer questions here.
> 
> I am wanting to learn more about CL ratings related to these longer cables. It seems like there is very limited use for cables longer than 15 feet that would not involve going into walls or ceiling spaces. That these long cables are still sold and considered without the CL rating raises some questions:
> 
> Are people skeptical that these cables pose any fire hazard at all when in a wall?
> Is it too expensive for the manufacturers to conduct the testing needed to certify CL?
> Are they just trying to avoid liability in case there is a fire involving a cable?
> Is in-wall conduit fire-rated? Does it need to be?
> If a non-CL rated cable is put into a conduit, does that render it "safe" equivalent to a CL rating?
> Are good 8k cables with a CL rating ever coming out? If so, does anyone know of any expected dates/costs/brands?


Many excellent questions. *I am neither an electrician nor a fire marshal so take these answers as non-expert information.* But it may be a long time before an expert in the US electric code notices your question. I’ll be delighted if a professional electrician jumps in with better information. Just in case that’s a very long wait:

You are correct that many of these very long cables probably run through walls. You are also correct that many people are unconcerned they are a fire hazard. The CL2, 3 or plenum rating, or lack thereof, is not about the cables ability or inability to *cause* a fire. It is a test to determine at what temperature the cable jacket will burn *in* a fire. As a practical matter, none of these cables should cause a fire. The amount of current running through them is far too low. That said, in case of fire, you don’t want any wiring to easily carry a fire from one location to another. I’m guessing that almost all building codes in the US require all in wall wiring to have at least CL 2 jackets. In case of a fire, the insulation in these cables will resist combustion for a longer period of time, also limiting the risk of the cable transmitting fire.

Regarding cost of certification, I imagine this is next to nothing. You can buy all sorts of CL 2 cabling in bulk for pennies a foot.

In wall conduit doesn’t eliminate code requirements for the wiring inside it. Inside a wall, with or without conduit, requirements for the fire rating of the jacket don’t change. So no - running non-CL2 cable through a conduit does not make it code.

When will CL 2 8 cables debut? Who knows. Anyone’s guess. The first CL 2 fiber HDMI cable was only just released. 

I hope we get people more expert and I to weigh in on your questions. In the meantime, perhaps this will give you a little more information.

If you are concerned about safety, it isn’t that difficult to find good sources of information on these subjects.

Pip


----------



## provenflipper

grahamhgreen said:


> Hello,
> 
> Could anyone tell me if the Zeskit passive, certified UHS HDMI cable 5m (16'), properly and reliably supports 48Gbps, and HDMI 2.1?
> 
> Thank you!!!!


I can’t speak to the actual Gbps the cable supports, but I tested both of mine and they were able to deliver 4K/120Hz with HDR from my Xbox to the TV.

The cable is very well built, however it is a really thick cable, so it can be challenging to bend properly.

I would highly recommend it, as it seems like the Zeskit cables are probably the most reliable and cost efficient options we have right now.


----------



## jp3189n

JAYSONE said:


> I just purchased a zeskit ultra hdmi cable recommended here from Amazon. Seller was zeskit.
> 
> It came in just a plastic bag and no box. Should I be concerned about the authenticity of the cable received? Anyone else receive theirs like this?
> 
> View attachment 3061465


I just received 5 cables bought through Amazon and all came in the box, each one with its certification label. Did you contact Zeskit? I was waiting for mine to confirm and even though it looks the same they should have come in the box.


----------



## Otto Pylot

provenflipper said:


> I can’t speak to the actual Gbps the cable supports, but I tested both of mine and they were able to deliver 4K/120Hz with HDR from my Xbox to the TV.
> 
> The cable is very well built, however it is a really thick cable, so it can be challenging to bend properly.
> 
> I would highly recommend it, as it seems like the Zeskit cables are probably the most reliable and cost efficient options we have right now.


I agree. The Zeskit cables are thick with a minimal bend radius but any certified UHS HDMI cable will be because of the higher gauge of wiring needed to maintain the bandwidth requirements of HDMI 2.1. As far as the actual bandwidth supported, that is determined with the use of sophisticated equipment so there is no way that the consumer can verify that other than running source material (games) and not observing any problems. I've had the cables installed for a few weeks now and they perform fine. Installation is important though because any crimping at all of the cable will affect signal propagation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jp3189n said:


> I just received 5 cables bought through Amazon and all came in the box, each one with its certification label. Did you contact Zeskit? I was waiting for mine to confirm and even though it looks the same they should have come in the box.


The individually packaged cable could be the cables that Amazon had in stock that didn't have the labels on them. Amazon has control over the stock in their warehouses and are randomly distributing the cables until their stock of un-labled cables is depleted. However, it's still bothersome that the cables didn't come in an un-labeled box with product information literature.


----------



## Gaco

Otto Pylot said:


> Hybrid fiber cables are active because they draw power from the HDMI ports, hence the wire gauge is much smaller and very flexible. You sill have to be a bit mindful of not having any sharp bends but for most installations that shouldn't be a problem if you have given yourself enough cable to work with. If this is an in-wall installation then the use of a conduit is highly recommended if you don't have easy access to the cable.
> 
> The cable you link to is a bit questionable in their product description. The cable is labeled as, "Ultra High Speed 2.1 HDMI AOC", which is close to the official name for certified cables, "Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. See the difference? However, HDMI.org does not allow for the certification of any type of active cables, so the product description is a bit of a "word salad" containing all of the buzz words to get your attention.
> 
> The cable would probably work but if you're going to spend that kind of money then I'd suggest the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b cable. They aren't cheap either but Ruipro has a very good reputation for build quality, excellent customer support, and a Lifetime Warranty.


Thanks. I can't quite find it in 10 m length. Do you know where one can buy them in 10 meter length, with international shipping?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gaco said:


> Thanks. I can't quite find it in 10 m length. Do you know where one can buy them in 10 meter length, with international shipping?


Amazon UK? Or from Ruipro directly?


----------



## grahamhgreen

provenflipper said:


> I can’t speak to the actual Gbps the cable supports, but I tested both of mine and they were able to deliver 4K/120Hz with HDR from my Xbox to the TV.
> 
> The cable is very well built, however it is a really thick cable, so it can be challenging to bend properly.
> 
> I would highly recommend it, as it seems like the Zeskit cables are probably the most reliable and cost efficient options we have right now.


Thanks so much! I ordered one of their right angle adapters too, just in case. 

I might be able to get the the 10' cable to work, but I may have to go with the 16', which is what I'm particularly concerned about. My options: 10', 10' with right angle adapter, 16', 16' with right angle adapter..... I'm not sure how to test them, we shall see how it goes!


----------



## grahamhgreen

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. The Zeskit cables are thick with a minimal bend radius but any certified UHS HDMI cable will be because of the higher gauge of wiring needed to maintain the bandwidth requirements of HDMI 2.1. As far as the actual bandwidth supported, that is determined with the use of sophisticated equipment so there is no way that the consumer can verify that other than running source material (games) and not observing any problems. I've had the cables installed for a few weeks now and they perform fine. Installation is important though because any crimping at all of the cable will affect signal propagation.


Do their right angle adapters degrade the signal at all?


----------



## Otto Pylot

grahamhgreen said:


> Do their right angle adapters degrade the signal at all?


The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no adapters, extenders, or wall plates in-between. All you can do is try. It sounds like you have very little space behind your panel. Hybrid fiber cables are very flexible but you still want to avoid and sharp bends because that can cause problems over time. How is your cable installed and is your tv wall mounted?

UHS HDMI cables may be ok with the adapters because they are not active so again, all you can do is try if you don't go with hybrid fiber cables. Just keep in mind that they are very stiff.


----------



## vertcobra99

I am building a new house. was planning on keeping all of my AV equipment in the basement below the room. I would need to run a 40-50foot HDMI 2.1 wire. Obviously since this is going in the wall I want to get it right the first time. Any recommendations on what wire to select? Will I have issues due to the length of the wire? If so I might need to rethink my approach.


----------



## GCTuba

GCTuba said:


> Finally received and installed my new cable and it works! 4K/120Hz/RGB Full/HDR/Gsync. There seems to be some flicker in dark scenes but that may be the Gsync flickering I've heard about and don't think it's the cable.


Looks like I may have spoken too soon. The cable is MUCH better than Echogear (which cut to black screens every minute) but it still cuts out every hour or two. Not a huge deal but annoying nonetheless. I was sent a replacement cable which exhibits the same issue. Still in contact with Monoprice to see what they say.


----------



## Otto Pylot

vertcobra99 said:


> I am building a new house. was planning on keeping all of my AV equipment in the basement below the room. I would need to run a 40-50foot HDMI 2.1 wire. Obviously since this is going in the wall I want to get it right the first time. Any recommendations on what wire to select? Will I have issues due to the length of the wire? If so I might need to rethink my approach.


Distance is always going to be an issue. For runs longer than 30' or so, and if you want to push 4k HDR, a hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro 4k (for HDMI 2.0 options) or the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b (for HDMI 2.1 options) are recommended.

In-wall installation just about require the use of a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") with pull strings. Video standards will always outpace connection standards so chances are you will upgrading your cables probably sooner than later. The use of a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling if you don't have easy access to it. You can also lay in solid core, UTP, CAT6 (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated ethernet) cable to either extend an ethernet connection by terminating with punch down keystone jacks or extend and HDMI connection by terminating with HDBT.

The only certified, UHS HDMI cables (Ultra High Speed HDMI) for the HDMI 2.1 option sets are passive cables, with a maximum length of 16' (5m). Anything longer than that can not be certified by HDMI.org and no active cable, be it copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber can be certified by HDMI.org. Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and installations, but at least the consumer knows that the cable has been rigorously tested by HDMI.org using standardized testing methodologies and equipment to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with your setup, regardless of their slick marketing and product claims.

The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. 4k HDR, and especially the HDMI 2.1 option sets, are very finicky with their connections. You also want to make sure that there are no sharp, 90º bends in your cable run. Lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.

Oh, and as side note, there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". They are either passive, Premium High Speed HDMI (for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and certified to 25') or passive Ultra High Speed HDMI (for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, certified to 16'). Those are the only two registered names for certified cables. Cable mfrs are masters at "word salad" cable descriptions and product claims so read carefully.


----------



## vertcobra99

Otto Pylot said:


> Distance is always going to be an issue. For runs longer than 30' or so, and if you want to push 4k HDR, a hybrid fiber cable like the Ruipro 4k (for HDMI 2.0 options) or the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b (for HDMI 2.1 options) are recommended.
> 
> In-wall installation just about require the use of a conduit (1.5" - 2.0") with pull strings. Video standards will always outpace connection standards so chances are you will upgrading your cables probably sooner than later. The use of a conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling if you don't have easy access to it. You can also lay in solid core, UTP, CAT6 (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated ethernet) cable to either extend an ethernet connection by terminating with punch down keystone jacks or extend and HDMI connection by terminating with HDBT.
> 
> The only certified, UHS HDMI cables (Ultra High Speed HDMI) for the HDMI 2.1 option sets are passive cables, with a maximum length of 16' (5m). Anything longer than that can not be certified by HDMI.org and no active cable, be it copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber can be certified by HDMI.org. Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and installations, but at least the consumer knows that the cable has been rigorously tested by HDMI.org using standardized testing methodologies and equipment to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. No cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with your setup, regardless of their slick marketing and product claims.
> 
> The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. 4k HDR, and especially the HDMI 2.1 option sets, are very finicky with their connections. You also want to make sure that there are no sharp, 90º bends in your cable run. Lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.
> 
> Oh, and as side note, there is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1 cable". They are either passive, Premium High Speed HDMI (for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and certified to 25') or passive Ultra High Speed HDMI (for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, certified to 16'). Those are the only two registered names for certified cables. Cable mfrs are masters at "word salad" cable descriptions and product claims so read carefully.


Thank you very much for your reply. Should I rethink my setup? I could run a all of the wires to a built in cabinet off to the right that I think could get away with a 16 foot cable. I would just really hate to do all this work and have it not work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

vertcobra99 said:


> Thank you very much for your reply. Should I rethink my setup? I could run a all of the wires to a built in cabinet off to the right that I think could get away with a 16 foot cable. I would just really hate to do all this work and have it not work.


That's entirely up to you. The shorter you can make your cable run, at least for HDMI, the more successful your chances are going to be for a trouble-free connection. There are successful HDMI runs at 50' and a bit longer so it's still pretty much trial and error. If you're a gamer, and want to push what HDMI 2.1 option sets that are currently available, distance will be an issue. Nothing is absolute in the world of HDMI but shortening your cable distance is definitely a step in the right direction.

Certified UHS HDMI cables have a thicker wire gauge because of the demands of HDMI 2.1 so the cables are considerably less flexible than hybrid fiber cables. Zeskit, for example, is offering certified UHS cables now up to 5m (16'). They have braided jackets, but the jackets can be carefully removed without affecting performance, to give one more flexibility. The idea of a braided jacket is more for aesthetics than performance because a lot of folks like the look. But for me, the cables are behind my devices, carefully hidden so who cares what they look like. Zeskit will be coming out with the same cable next month or so without the braided jacket so it will be more flexible. You just want to make sure the bend radius is not too severe which may cause undue strain on the HDMI port, so I would plan on giving yourself some extra cable length if you go the certified route. If not, then the hybrid fiber cable, Ruipro 4k or 8k is what you should consider. However, they are expensive.


----------



## dreal_sow

Using a 3080 gpu with an LG C9. At first I was using a vesa certified HDMI 2.0b cable which previously had 0 issues with my 2070S. On the 3080 HDMI port however, the signal would constantly disconnect and reconnect. I was told to get an HDMI 2.1 cable. I purchased the ruipro cable and the exact same issue persists. I know it is not an issue with either of the HDMI cables themselves as I tested them with another computer at the exact same resolution (1080p this issue still occurs on the 3080) so my only guess is that the 3080 hdmi port is faulty or the there is some incompatibility with the C9 and the 3080 at a software/hardware level.

Anyone else experiencing this?


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> Using a 3080 gpu with an LG C9. At first I was using a vesa certified HDMI 2.0b cable which previously had 0 issues with my 2070S. On the 3080 HDMI port however, the signal would constantly disconnect and reconnect. I was told to get an HDMI 2.1 cable. I purchased the ruipro cable and the exact same issue persists. I know it is not an issue with either of the HDMI cables themselves as I tested them with another computer at the exact same resolution (1080p this issue still occurs on the 3080) so my only guess is that the 3080 hdmi port is faulty or the there is some incompatibility with the C9 and the 3080 at a software/hardware level.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this?


That sounds like the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipset issue that plagued some early 3080 GPUs. How long is your run and what is a "VESA certfied HDMI" cable? The only officially certified HDMI cables are passive, labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI and come with a QR label of authenticity. Active cables, of any kind, will not be certified by HDMI.org. 

The Gen-3 and 3b cables from Ruipro were tweaked a bit to give them more compatibility with devices and the buggy HDMI chipsets. They were tested with the 3080/3090 chipsets and the LG C9 and CX panels.


----------



## dreal_sow

Soul_ said:


> Bit of an update guys, I received the RUIPro Gen3-B cable today, and it was clearly marked as Gen3-B on the tag. I was able to run 4k 120Hz 444 at 12bit, from my 3080 to C9 just fine at 50ft distance. I did not use the included power injector, cable seems to work without it just fine.
> 
> Will keep this thread in loop if I find any issues, but so far so good.


Do you mind listing your specs? My rig cannot maintain this without constant dropouts/reconnects wi. the same cable but 33ft. version.

Specs:
Motherboard X570 AORUS ELITE 
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s) 
GPU Adapter Type GeForce RTX 3080, NVIDIA compatible (RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA) 
Power Supply Thermaltake Smart Pro 850-Watt Modular 
Memory G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200


----------



## dreal_sow

Otto Pylot said:


> That sounds like the buggy HDMI 2.1 chipset issue that plagued some early 3080 GPUs. How long is your run and what is a "VESA certfied HDMI" cable? The only officially certified HDMI cables are passive, labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI and come with a QR label of authenticity. Active cables, of any kind, will not be certified by HDMI.org.
> 
> The Gen-3 and 3b cables from Ruipro were tweaked a bit to give them more compatibility with devices and the buggy HDMI chipsets. They were tested with the 3080/3090 chipsets and the LG C9 and CX panels.


I'm using the 33ft ruipro gen-3b cable. When I attempted to use the 5v adapter (with usb plugged into mb, hdmi adapter on souce) there was no signal at all. Currently the signal is stable (no dropouts or reconnects) running 4K @60hz 32bit color depth desktop 8bpc color depth RGB color format and limited range. So basically the same as my old HDMI 2.0b cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> I'm using the 33ft ruipro gen-3b cable. When I attempted to use the 5v adapter (with usb plugged into mb, hdmi adapter on souce) there was no signal at all. Currently the signal is stable (no dropouts or reconnects) running 4K @60hz 32bit color depth desktop 8bpc color depth RGB color format and limited range. So basically the same as my old HDMI 2.0b cable.


The supplied USB power inserter is only necessary if you have issues. I've tested the power inserter connected and not connected, source and sink, and saw no difference. You should've had a signal regardless so something is amiss. It doesn't sound like the cable if both perform the same. The cable is just a data pipe. It transmits what the source sends and the sink decodes.


----------



## dreal_sow

Otto Pylot said:


> The supplied USB power inserter is only necessary if you have issues. I've tested the power inserter connected and not connected, source and sink, and saw no difference. You should've had a signal regardless so something is amiss. It doesn't sound like the cable if both perform the same. The cable is just a data pipe. It transmits what the source sends and the sink decodes.


I feel like the cable might be the culprit because when it exceeds the bandwidth limits of HDMI 2.0b it starts flickering and dropping signal. That sort of screams "cable issue" to me but yet several other people are reporting that the same cable works fine while several others are reporting it doesn't. I'm hoping the next firmware update from LG will help but how would that make any difference when another user says everything is working fine for them with a 3080 and a C9?


----------



## 5468467984

dreal_sow said:


> Do you mind listing your specs? My rig cannot maintain this without constant dropouts/reconnects wi. the same cable but 33ft. version.
> 
> Specs:
> Motherboard X570 AORUS ELITE
> Processor AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
> GPU Adapter Type GeForce RTX 3080, NVIDIA compatible (RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA)
> Power Supply Thermaltake Smart Pro 850-Watt Modular
> Memory G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200



Sure, my PC is pretty old. I am running 
GPU: RTX 3080 Gaming trio X
CPU: 4790k @4.6Ghz
RAM: 24GB @2Ghz
Mobo: Z97 Sabertooth 
PSU: EVGA Platinum 1000Watt
TV: LG C9

No dropouts what-so-ever. 

Four important things in the config for HDMI connection:
1. GPU HDMI Port, which we probably have the same, since it is 3080.
2. Enough power in PSU to keep GPU well-fed, which I think 850Watt in your case should be plenty.
3. TV HDMI port, in my case C9 is performing like a champ.
4. Cable, which if you are using RUIPro Gen3B you should be good, I can vouch for it

If I had to pick place to start, I would ask which TV do you have? And is your HDMI connection stable with a passive cable?


----------



## Gaco

Otto Pylot said:


> Amazon UK? Or from Ruipro directly?


This should be the one right? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SF1DKF/ref=vp_c_A3FU75V4DQLELQ?ie=UTF8&m=A1W38LIN57HDN1


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gaco said:


> This should be the one right? https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081SF1DKF/ref=vp_c_A3FU75V4DQLELQ?ie=UTF8&m=A1W38LIN57HDN1


Yes. There is also a Gen-3b that apparently has a little more compatibility but I haven't seen it advertised specifically as Gen-3b.


----------



## dreal_sow

Soul_ said:


> Sure, my PC is pretty old. I am running
> GPU: RTX 3080 Gaming trio X
> CPU: 4790k @4.6Ghz
> RAM: 24GB @2Ghz
> Mobo: Z97 Sabertooth
> PSU: EVGA Platinum 1000Watt
> TV: LG C9
> 
> No dropouts what-so-ever.
> 
> Four important things in the config for HDMI connection:
> 1. GPU HDMI Port, which we probably have the same, since it is 3080.
> 2. Enough power in PSU to keep GPU well-fed, which I think 850Watt in your case should be plenty.
> 3. TV HDMI port, in my case C9 is performing like a champ.
> 4. Cable, which if you are using RUIPro Gen3B you should be good, I can vouch for it
> 
> If I had to pick place to start, I would ask which TV do you have? And is your HDMI connection stable with a passive cable?


I am using an LG C9.

I emailed LG support and this is what I got, apparently they don't believe the C9 has HDMI 2.1 capabilities 


*Original response from support*
Apologies for the inconvenience, We have already reported the issue with the
G-Sync compatibility with RTX3080 and RTX3090 to our technical team due
to multiple complaints affecting the OLED models, as of the moment they are still
investigating and working on the software/firmware update to fix the said issue
this update should be rolled out OTA before the end of the year
We hope for your patience on the matter, until the update is released 

*My reply*
Just wanted to mention this issue IS NOT related to G-SYNC. With gsync enabled or disabled I get constant disconnects with any graphics resolution listed under "PC" in nvidia control panel. Oddly enough 4K @ 60hz works fine under the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolution list. This is all using default color settings.

*Follow-up response*
Hello!
I hope you’re doing well.
The OLED C9 only has HDMI 2.0 which can only run 4K at 60Hz. Try to replace the HDMI cable and check if it will still cut the connection.


----------



## Gaco

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes. There is also a Gen-3b that apparently has a little more compatibility but I haven't seen it advertised specifically as Gen-3b.


Are you able to find this? If not I'll buy the one above, but otherwise I'd like to see the other one. Thanks!


----------



## 5468467984

dreal_sow said:


> I am using an LG C9.
> 
> I emailed LG support and this is what I got, apparently they don't believe the C9 has HDMI 2.1 capabilities
> 
> 
> *Original response from support*
> Apologies for the inconvenience, We have already reported the issue with the
> G-Sync compatibility with RTX3080 and RTX3090 to our technical team due
> to multiple complaints affecting the OLED models, as of the moment they are still
> investigating and working on the software/firmware update to fix the said issue
> this update should be rolled out OTA before the end of the year
> We hope for your patience on the matter, until the update is released
> 
> *My reply*
> Just wanted to mention this issue IS NOT related to G-SYNC. With gsync enabled or disabled I get constant disconnects with any graphics resolution listed under "PC" in nvidia control panel. Oddly enough 4K @ 60hz works fine under the "Ultra HD, HD, SD" resolution list. This is all using default color settings.
> 
> *Follow-up response*
> Hello!
> I hope you’re doing well.
> The OLED C9 only has HDMI 2.0 which can only run 4K at 60Hz. Try to replace the HDMI cable and check if it will still cut the connection.


If I could bang my head any harder against the wall.

Anywho, did you try passive copper cable to see how that works? I had my PC running on passive cable at 48Gbps for a good week before switching it over.


----------



## confeeeg

Hi all, this is a great thread with very informed responses. Thanks ahead of time for my own question...

Received a replacement RUIPRO 40ft 8K cable labeled Gen 3b. Both with a EVGA 3080 and Asus 3070, I'm getting flickering, color inversion, etc artifacts on my X900H running in its fake 4k120Hz mode. Takes a minute, but as soon as I start doing any GPU accelerrated tasks I see this flickering. Seems to be reduced when dropping to 8bit. No difference with resolution or 100hz vs 120hz. This is most prominent actually on desktop rather than in game. Pretty much unusable though, happens every second or two.

GPU: EVGA FTW3 3080
CPU: 7700k
Screen: X900H
PSU: 750W
Cable: RUIPRO 8K HDMI 40ft Gen3b

Anyone have any insight on how to resolve this? Shouldn't be faulty HDMI ports as behavior is the same between the 3070, 3080, and ports 3 & 4 on the TV. PSU is not maxed out, but neither card could be maxing out their wattage at desktop... Is the cable just capable of doing this @ 40ft? Bummer if so.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Gaco said:


> Are you able to find this? If not I'll buy the one above, but otherwise I'd like to see the other one. Thanks!


I'd try the Gen 3 and see how it works. If not, you should be able to contact Ruipro, state what the problem is, and they might replace it with a Gen-3b. They do have very responsive customer support. Certainly lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation because careful and proper installation of these cables can be critical for performance reliability.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> I am using an LG C9.
> 
> I emailed LG support and this is what I got, apparently they don't believe the C9 has HDMI 2.1 capabilities


I haven't taken a close look at the C9 specs but it could be that they only have one to two of the HDMI 2.1 option sets but that's still enough to claim HDMI 2.1. It could also be the dreaded faulty HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some of the 3080/3090 GPUs that has plagued some when communicating with the C9.


----------



## foshizzle

I've gone through 3 different 25 ft fiber optic hdmi 2.1 cables from amazon and they did not work.

I'm using Nvidia RTX 3080 and Sony X900H.

I need 25 feet. Are there any 25 feet hdmi 2.1 cables out there that work?


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> I've gone through 3 different 25 ft fiber optic hdmi 2.1 cables from amazon and they did not work.
> 
> I'm using Nvidia RTX 3080 and Sony X900H.
> 
> I need 25 feet. Are there any 25 feet hdmi 2.1 cables out there that work?


There are hybrid fiber cables at 25' (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3) that have been tested internally by the cable mfr that work for most folks. Keep in mind that compatibility issues between the 3080 and some devices were reported early on due to some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets with the Nvidia cards. Ruipro made some tweaks to their cables (hence the Gen-3 label) that apparently have worked for a lot of 3080 and LG C9/CX users. I don't know about the Sony tv's.

No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups. This is especially true for the active cable, because they can't be certified by HDMI.org due to cable design and the active nature of the cables. Trial and error is the name of the game.


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> There are hybrid fiber cables at 25' (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3) that have been tested internally by the cable mfr that work for most folks. Keep in mind that compatibility issues between the 3080 and some devices were reported early on due to some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets with the Nvidia cards. Ruipro made some tweaks to their cables (hence the Gen-3 label) that apparently have worked for a lot of 3080 and LG C9/CX users. I don't know about the Sony tv's.
> 
> No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups. This is especially true for the active cable, because they can't be certified by HDMI.org due to cable design and the active nature of the cables. Trial and error is the name of the game.


The Ruipro cables on Amazon don't say free returns.

I can't take that gamble on them for now.


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> The Ruipro cables on Amazon don't say free returns.
> 
> I can't take that gamble on them for now.


There are lots of posts by folks who have contacted Ruipro support with issues and have been sent replacement cables. Ruipro has about the best reliability now for the hybrid fiber cables and long runs. No matter who you choose, it's going to be a bit of trial and error because there are no guarantees. Period.


----------



## confeeeg

Otto Pylot said:


> There are lots of posts by folks who have contacted Ruipro support with issues and have been sent replacement cables. Ruipro has about the best reliability now for the hybrid fiber cables and long runs. No matter who you choose, it's going to be a bit of trial and error because there are no guarantees. Period.


Yeah as I mentioned, my replacement cable isn't working right now. Could be the TV, could be the cable. Will update when I try a new cable. But their customer service is awesome for sure. Replacement from china in 4 days.


----------



## Chris Kempa

Any word on usable 2.1 cables at 75ft or longer? I need one to connect my 3080 and E9. [email protected] capability is a must. Shame reading all these faulty cable reports.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Chris Kempa said:


> Any word on usable 2.1 cables at 75ft or longer? I need one to connect my 3080 and E9. [email protected] capability is a must. Shame reading all these faulty cable reports.


Distance is your enemy. At this point in time, the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3 is your best bet. As with all hybrid fiber cables, no one can guarantee that their cable will work 100% of the time for all devices and cable installations. It's still trial and error, especially at that length and HDMI 2.1. Hopefully you have easy access to your cabling (or are using a conduit if in-wall) because you really want to avoid sharp, 90º bends, and don't use wall plates, adapters, extenders etc. A single cable, source to sink is the most reliable connection.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Distance is your enemy. At this point in time, the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3 is your best bet. As with all hybrid fiber cables, no one can guarantee that their cable will work 100% of the time for all devices and cable installations. It's still trial and error, especially at that length and HDMI 2.1. Hopefully you have easy access to your cabling (or are using a conduit if in-wall) because you really want to avoid sharp, 90º bends, and don't use wall plates, adapters, extenders etc. A single cable, source to sink is the most reliable connection.


This all just seems kind of silly. It's a data cable. Can it pass the 48 GB or not? I don't see why a cable at any length can't be certified other than the certifiers not wanting to be bothered and not really wanting to actually test cables and just wanting to get a fee to slap stickers on cables 16 ft or less that they know will most likely work if they're manufactured properly. Why not allow the certification of any cable if it can pass the amount of data needed? The idea that a cable is going to work with one video card or media player and one TV and not another seems crazy. If they're not allowing the certification of active cables then the governing body of HDMI doesn't think it's possible?

I need a 25-ft cable that works at 48 GB. Unlike 18 GB it doesn't look like there's going to be a non-active simple copper cable option. While the new HDMI 2.1 standard is better than nothing and it's cool they're trying to keep the same cable but all they're really doing is cutting down the length and going wow we can go faster... with a shorter cable. Which again is better than nothing but some of us need a longer flippin' cable.

It seems we're just stuck waiting for somebody to make a fiber cable with quality components not the same transceiver hardware that they got away with on the 18 GB cables. For many months now there's been all these 8K super duper HDMI fiber cables they've been selling on Amazon by a number of different companies and I don't think any of them actually work but they're just selling them to people that don't know any better and or don't actually need 48 gigabits at the moment and they don't realize that cable they just bought isn't going to work when they actually try to run something at 120 hz or 8K. And it may be a long way off as most companies probably don't see large sales numbers coming for true 48 GB cables with long runs as the 18 GB cables give home theater folks everything 99% of them need.


----------



## foshizzle

Tanquen said:


> This all just seems kind of silly. It's a data cable. Can it pass the 48 GB or not? I don't see why a cable at any length can't be certified other than the certifiers not wanting to be bothered and not really wanting to actually test cables and just wanting to get a fee to slap stickers on cables 16 ft or less that they know will most likely work if they're manufactured properly. Why not allow the certification of any cable if it can pass the amount of data needed? The idea that a cable is going to work with one video card or media player and one TV and not another seems crazy. If they're not allowing the certification of active cables then the governing body of HDMI doesn't think it's possible?
> 
> I need a 25-ft cable that works at 48 GB. Unlike 18 GB it doesn't look like there's going to be a non-active simple copper cable option. While the new HDMI 2.1 standard is better than nothing and it's cool they're trying to keep the same cable but all they're really doing is cutting down the length and going wow we can go faster... with a shorter cable. Which again is better than nothing but some of us need a longer flippin' cable.
> 
> It seems we're just stuck waiting for somebody to make a fiber cable with quality components not the same transceiver hardware that they got away with on the 18 GB cables. For many months now there's been all these 8K super duper HDMI fiber cables they've been selling on Amazon by a number of different companies and I don't think any of them actually work but they're just selling them to people that don't know any better and or don't actually need 48 gigabits at the moment and they don't realize that cable they just bought isn't going to work when they actually try to run something at 120 hz or 8K. And it may be a long way off as most companies probably don't see large sales numbers coming for true 48 GB cables with long runs as the 18 GB cables give home theater folks everything 99% of them need.


I totally agree. It's the wild wild west when it comes to cables, but then wtf is there an hdmi forum with royalties.

To add on top of this, they are doing zero certification for hdmi 2.1 displays. This is the biggest piece of this whole hdmi puzzle, but sony is out there with their Sony X900H boasting and advertising their hdmi 2.1 features, but it doesn't even do true 4k res.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> This all just seems kind of silly. It's a data cable. Can it pass the 48 GB or not? I don't see why a cable at any length can't be certified other than the certifiers not wanting to be bothered and not really wanting to actually test cables and just wanting to get a fee to slap stickers on cables 16 ft or less that they know will most likely work if they're manufactured properly. Why not allow the certification of any cable if it can pass the amount of data needed? The idea that a cable is going to work with one video card or media player and one TV and not another seems crazy. If they're not allowing the certification of active cables then the governing body of HDMI doesn't think it's possible?
> 
> I need a 25-ft cable that works at 48 GB. Unlike 18 GB it doesn't look like there's going to be a non-active simple copper cable option. While the new HDMI 2.1 standard is better than nothing and it's cool they're trying to keep the same cable but all they're really doing is cutting down the length and going wow we can go faster... with a shorter cable. Which again is better than nothing but some of us need a longer flippin' cable.
> 
> It seems we're just stuck waiting for somebody to make a fiber cable with quality components not the same transceiver hardware that they got away with on the 18 GB cables. For many months now there's been all these 8K super duper HDMI fiber cables they've been selling on Amazon by a number of different companies and I don't think any of them actually work but they're just selling them to people that don't know any better and or don't actually need 48 gigabits at the moment and they don't realize that cable they just bought isn't going to work when they actually try to run something at 120 hz or 8K. And it may be a long way off as most companies probably don't see large sales numbers coming for true 48 GB cables with long runs as the 18 GB cables give home theater folks everything 99% of them need.


While it may be silly, there's a physical, data transmission issue with complying with the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Keep in mind that HDMI 2.1, or any of the previous versions, are not industry standards like ethernet is, so the cable mfrs have to come up with cables that can meet the hardware requirement of HDMI 2.1. And there are no standardized requirements on the hardware mfrs on how they implement those options sets. They are free to implement those anyway they can as long as they can show that the option sets are met. Which results in incompatibilities in some cases. Very similar to the CEC issues that have been around for years. 

Active cable complicate that because they are needed for the longer lengths and have to have chipsets that play nice with the various devices.

HDMI is a mess and you can thank the major device mfrs for that.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> While it may be silly, there's a physical, data transmission issue with complying with the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Keep in mind that HDMI 2.1, or any of the previous versions, are not industry standards like ethernet is, so the cable mfrs have to come up with cables that can meet the hardware requirement of HDMI 2.1. And there are no standardized requirements on the hardware mfrs on how they implement those options sets. They are free to implement those anyway they can as long as they can show that the option sets are met. Which results in incompatibilities in some cases. Very similar to the CEC issues that have been around for years.
> 
> Active cable complicate that because they are needed for the longer lengths and have to have chipsets that play nice with the various devices.
> 
> HDMI is a mess and you can thank the major device mfrs for that.


Okay but that's what I'm getting at, it's the data aspect. And it totally is a standard. Either it can pass 48 GB reliably or it can't. The cable manufacturers can't magically make it pass HDR or or Atmos (like you see on questionable manufacturers ads) or whatever, it's just data packets. They can't make it magically work with a RTX 3080 but not an RTX 3070 and so on. I'm not asking it to magically fix the nightmare that is HDMI handshaking between devices when devices don't implement the HDMI protocols correctly. I just want one that passes all the data it says it can... reliably.

Plug in a short cable everything works. Plug in a longer cable and you try to do 4K 120 hz the signal drops out. Get a different longer cable at 4K 120 hz and the signal doesn't drop out. I don't care if it's active or not. Eventually one of the China special companies or someone else will make a reliable transceiver with a fiber cable for 48 GB until then we suffer.

The certification as it's currently set up sounds like a total scam. In the end some supplier is going to come up with a cable that works and sell it to Best Buy and Crutchfield and so on that want to sell cables to their customers and not get a bunch of returns because the cables don't do what they say they do.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Okay but that's what I'm getting at, it's the data aspect. And it totally is a standard. Either it can pass 48 GB reliably or it can't. The cable manufacturers can't magically make it pass HDR or or Atmos (like you see on questionable manufacturers ads) or whatever, it's just data packets. They can't make it magically work with a RTX 3080 but not an RTX 3070 and so on. I'm not asking it to magically fix the nightmare that is HDMI handshaking between devices when devices don't implement the HDMI protocols correctly. I just want one that passes all the data it says it can... reliably.
> 
> Plug in a short cable everything works. Plug in a longer cable and you try to do 4K 120 hz the signal drops out. Get a different longer cable at 4K 120 hz and the signal doesn't drop out. I don't care if it's active or not. Eventually one of the China special companies or someone else will make a reliable transceiver with a fiber cable for 48 GB until then we suffer.
> 
> The certification as it's currently set up sounds like a total scam. In the end some supplier is going to come up with a cable that works and sell it to Best Buy and Crutchfield and so on that want to sell cables to their customers and not get a bunch of returns because the cables don't do what they say they do.


Ethernet is a standard (IEEE 802.1/.3), which is an industry specification that is owned by a trade association. HDMI is not. So the device mfrs are free to implement the options as they see fit. That results in incompatibilities (CEC is the prime example). Most of the time it works, but once you start trying to push the higher bandwidths over longer distances, reliability becomes an issue, and if you complicate the signal by increasing resolution, color space, communication (HDCP, ARC, EDID), etc there is very little room for timing errors and what not. That was one of the reasons that active cables were developed, to keep all of that in check and working as designed by incorporating specialized chipsets in the connector ends. But, those chipsets require power and the most obvious place to get that power is from the HDMI port, which presents a whole other set of issues. HD (1080) usually worked just fine. But now that we have considerably higher video demands on the HDMI chipsets and the cable that carries those signals, it becomes very complicated and difficult. I've always said that video standards will always outpace connection standards so the cable mfrs are constantly trying to play catch up.

As far as 48Gbps goes, there is no source material yet that requires that bandwidth nor any reliable/accurate way for the consumer to test that. Some material will require 40Gbps but that's about it, so far. The "wise folks" at HDMI.org knew there were going to be issues with cables meeting the new HDMI 2.1 option sets so the safe (reliable) cable length was originally 1m-3m, but that has since been pushed to 5m (16') for passive cables. The same reasoning was behind the 25' length for HDMI 2.0. However, active cables require power, and the reliability of the current output of the HDMI chipsets (5v/50mA), which may have been fine for HD, is probably not consistent (difficult to maintain tight tolerances) across the various devices which causes havoc with active cables. That's why HDMI.org does not have certification programs for active cables of any kind.

Hybrid fiber cables (glass fiber cores surrounded by pure copper wiring) were designed to overcome some of those issues and will probably continue to be the design of choice going forward for HDMI 2.1 and beyond. Solid copper cables could probably work as well but the wire gauge would need to be so thick as to make the cables realistically unusable for consumer systems. Even the certified passive cables for UHS HDMI are thick and a bit difficult to work with at 5m.

As far as certification goes, it doesn't guarantee anything. It's more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by a standardized testing program that has been designed and implemented by HDMI.org. So, any cable that is labeled as Premium High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.0) or Ultra High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.1), both of which have the QR label for authenticity, have been tested/certified the same way regardless of who made the cable.

There is much more to a successful cable connection that just the data pipe. Distance, source/sink HDMI chipsets, installation, etc. Probably the most reliable hybrid fiber cable on the market now are the Ruipro 4k/8k cables. They are made extremely well because Ruipro has total control from design to mfr'ing and they use proprietary chipsets. They also have one of the best customer support programs around and actually listen to their customers and are constantly modifying their cables for better compatibility with the various devices, who have their own HDMI chipset issues. However, they are not perfect so it all still comes down to trial and error, and will probably continue to be that way for a long time still.


----------



## Tanquen

Yeah mostly like what I said already, pushing more bandwidth. Not tweaking a cable so it supports HDR or a certain device. Those are just side effects of the cable not supporting the full bandwidth reliably consistently being on the edge. I don't think there's a lot more to a cable than it being a data pipe. Yes it has to be installed correctly, yes the device is on either end have to support one another but I'm not talking about that really. HDMI is a standard in every way that matters just like ethernet. Just like there's plenty of ethernet cables out there that are labeled CAT 5 or 6 or cat 5e or 7, that are not those things. Just like you can buy off brand Ethernet cards that drops connections and in numerous other ways don't work all that well. There's a reason some people feel like they need to get an Intel NIC.

I and others test 48 GBPS all the time. 

The fact that it's more difficult or the tolerances are tighter and mainly the able needs thicker wires or better shielding or a fiber transceiver so that signal can make it through a longer cable has nothing to do with it being able to be certified. Who cares what's in the cable or how long it is you still plug it into two devices that can send or receive frame rates and resolutions and color depth that push it up to 48 GPPS and either it'll work or it won't or maybe it'll work sometimes and cut in and out then that cable doesn't get certified. If HDMI ports don't have to put out any kind of specific power to be an HDMI port because there's no HDMI port standard then the active cables need an external power source. That sucks but as long as there's a way to make sure the cable always works then it's certified.

Yeah regular copper cables will need to be thicker. My 25 ft monoprice cables that work with 18 GBPS+ signals are thicker than the 16 ft 48 GBPS that I have and that works. Do I want a thicker cable no but I need a 20 to 25-ft cable that works consistently at 48 GBPS.

And yeah certification doesn't mean anything I agree, I said that already. Just like CAT 5e being printed on the side of the cable doesn't mean it really is. And it's certainly doesn't mean it was actually tested anywhere. The HDMI manufacturer can send in some cherry picked cable that worked right and got certified and now they can get an HDMI sticker that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to work. Pretty sure they're not sending all their cables somewhere to be tested before they go out to customers. Just like that first company that's been putting stickers on their boxes for HDMI 2.1 certification just got sent a bunch of stickers and I've been putting them on boxes they didn't send all the cables anywhere to get tested and they've also stated that the cables that don't have the sticker should still be fine.

I might end up trying a Ruipro cable but I don't think they're tweaking any of them to work with specific devices, I think they're sending out cables to customers that are actually pushing the bandwidth high enough to show flaws in that particular cable or that whole series of cables and the manufacturer is trying to clean them up. I don't think they forgot to put 10 bit color depth switch on in the chipset for specific devices and on for others I just think when the bandwidth is pushed high enough when people turn on enough bandwidth intensive settings it shows that the cable isn't quite up to snuff. I'm sure somebody will have one at some point. The other day I saw a company that specializes in commercial television $500 cables etc and they swear they have one for long distances that's fully 48Gbps compatible and will always work blah blah blah but I'm not going to spend $500 on a cable, yet.

I think we mostly agree but I just don't agree that they can't be tested right now because you totally can with a modern video card and a home theater PC setup and I don't think there should be a bunch of trial and error. Either it can pass 48 Gbps or it can't. I also don't agree that there's no standard to meet. They're totally is an HDMI 2.1 standard for them to meet... 48 Gbps.

Sorry if I keep repeating myself but these posts are too long and I can't see all on my phone that well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yeah mostly like what I said already, pushing more bandwidth. Not tweaking a cable so it supports HDR or a certain device. Those are just side effects of the cable not supporting the full bandwidth reliably consistently being on the edge. I don't think there's a lot more to a cable than it being a data pipe. Yes it has to be installed correctly, yes the device is on either end have to support one another but I'm not talking about that really. HDMI is a standard in every way that matters just like ethernet. Just like there's plenty of ethernet cables out there that are labeled CAT 5 or 6 or cat 5e or 7, that are not those things. Just like you can buy off brand Ethernet cards that drops connections and in numerous other ways don't work all that well. There's a reason some people feel like they need to get an Intel NIC.
> 
> I and others test 48 GBPS all the time.
> 
> The fact that it's more difficult or the tolerances are tighter and mainly the able needs thicker wires or better shielding or a fiber transceiver so that signal can make it through a longer cable has nothing to do with it being able to be certified. Who cares what's in the cable or how long it is you still plug it into two devices that can send or receive frame rates and resolutions and color depth that push it up to 48 GPPS and either it'll work or it won't or maybe it'll work sometimes and cut in and out then that cable doesn't get certified. If HDMI ports don't have to put out any kind of specific power to be an HDMI port because there's no HDMI port standard then the active cables need an external power source. That sucks but as long as there's a way to make sure the cable always works then it's certified.
> 
> Yeah regular copper cables will need to be thicker. My 25 ft monoprice cables that work with 18 GBPS+ signals are thicker than the 16 ft 48 GBPS that I have and that works. Do I want a thicker cable no but I need a 20 to 25-ft cable that works consistently at 48 GBPS.
> 
> And yeah certification doesn't mean anything I agree, I said that already. Just like CAT 5e being printed on the side of the cable doesn't mean it really is. And it's certainly doesn't mean it was actually tested anywhere. The HDMI manufacturer can send in some cherry picked cable that worked right and got certified and now they can get an HDMI sticker that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to work. Pretty sure they're not sending all their cables somewhere to be tested before they go out to customers. Just like that first company that's been putting stickers on their boxes for HDMI 2.1 certification just got sent a bunch of stickers and I've been putting them on boxes they didn't send all the cables anywhere to get tested and they've also stated that the cables that don't have the sticker should still be fine.
> 
> I might end up trying a Ruipro cable but I don't think they're tweaking any of them to work with specific devices, I think they're sending out cables to customers that are actually pushing the bandwidth high enough to show flaws in that particular cable or that whole series of cables and the manufacturer is trying to clean them up. I don't think they forgot to put 10 bit color depth switch on in the chipset for specific devices and on for others I just think when the bandwidth is pushed high enough when people turn on enough bandwidth intensive settings it shows that the cable isn't quite up to snuff. I'm sure somebody will have one at some point. The other day I saw a company that specializes in commercial television $500 cables etc and they swear they have one for long distances that's fully 48Gbps compatible and will always work blah blah blah but I'm not going to spend $500 on a cable, yet.
> 
> I think we mostly agree but I just don't agree that they can't be tested right now because you totally can with a modern video card and a home theater PC setup and I don't think there should be a bunch of trial and error. Either it can pass 48 Gbps or it can't. I also don't agree that there's no standard to meet. They're totally is an HDMI 2.1 standard for them to meet... 48 Gbps.
> 
> Sorry if I keep repeating myself but these posts are too long and I can't see all on my phone that well.


The HDMI chipset designs do follow standards of sorts (5v/50mA), and active HDMI cables were designed to work around the 50mA current output. But the HDMI video protocols are just options that need to work with those chipsets, but HOW those option sets are implemented is not standardized and is up to the mfr. Again, just look at the problems with CEC, which is part of the HDMI "standard" if you will.

Just because a cable can pass 48Gbps doesn't necessarily mean that the video options that require that bandwidth will work. There's more to it than just speed. There were issues with the 3080/3090 cards that were just release due to a bug in the HDMI chipsets. Companies like Ruipro had to figure out a way around that bug to give their cables more compatibility with those buggy chipsets. As far as the receivers that have HDMI "testers" built-in, that is a good idea but there are questions about the accuracy. Given that accurate and reliable HDMI bandwidth testers are very expensive (hundreds to thousands of dollars) it seems unlikely that the avr mfrs would put that kind of technology into their devices and still be able to keep costs down and competitive.

The bottom line is that there will never be a cable that is guaranteed to work 100% of the time regardless of connected devices or installation at lengths longer than 16' for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, at least in the forseable future. Hopefully the gamers, who HDMI 2.1 is really marketed to, will complain loud enough and long enough that the device mfrs will start to work more closely with the cable mfrs to iron out the technical issues before source material becomes available so that the non-games can enjoy all that HDMI 2.1 is supposed to offer.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Just because a cable can pass 48Gbps doesn't necessarily mean that the video options that require that bandwidth will work. There's more to it than just speed.


It should. I think that bug was in the AVR with Panasonic chips not the card and hand nothing to do with and could not be fixed by cables. I did not look in too deep as I don't have a HDMI 2.1 AVR yet (their 2020 offerings are a slap in the face) and the RTX 3080 direct to the TV through the 16ft HDMI 48Gbps cables works as it should.



Otto Pylot said:


> "As far as the receivers that have HDMI "testers" built-in, that is a good idea but there are questions about the accuracy.


I understand that feeling but the one in my HDMI 2.0 AVR works fine. It's not some $5000 handheld that runs a bunch of tests but it can send a high bandwidth signal and see that it gets the same through the cable (not caring one little bit about how the cable was made or if it had a sticker) to the other end. Not rocket science. I messed with some different cables. It was helpful to see that some cables worked every time and others would not or they would with one pigtail but not 2 or not others. It's too bad they try to hide the test.



Otto Pylot said:


> The bottom line is that there will never be a cable that is guaranteed to work 100% of the time


Don't see why not? I have two HDMI 2.1 cables right now that do just that. Just agree to disagree.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Don't see why not? I have two HDMI 2.1 cables right now that do just that. Just agree to disagree.


If you have cables that work then what's the point of your post? Some work, some don't. Congratulations on your cable choice.


----------



## Hotobu

Been a while since I've posted, but I finally got my hands on a 3080 and apparently this cable (that I paid a lot for) is only letting me use 60hz. Has anyone had any luck with refunds? Is there a consensus on which cable's work? I think there was another thread about that. I'm going to search it now again.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hotobu said:


> Been a while since I've posted, but I finally got my hands on a 3080 and apparently this cable (that I paid a lot for) is only letting me use 60hz. Has anyone had any luck with refunds? Is there a consensus on which cable's work? I think there was another thread about that. I'm going to search it now again.


Which cable and how long is your run? There are no 100% guarantees that a specific cable will work for all devices and setups. If your run is under 16', then you can get a certified UHS HDMI cable from Zeskit. If over 16', then a hybrid fiber cable may be a good choice. A lot of folks are having good luck with the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> If you have cables that work then what's the point of your post? Some work, some don't. Congratulations on your cable choice.


Umm... All the stuff in the posts. ???


----------



## Tanquen

Hotobu said:


> Been a while since I've posted, but I finally got my hands on a 3080 and apparently this cable (that I paid a lot for) is only letting me use 60hz. Has anyone had any luck with refunds? Is there a consensus on which cable's work? I think there was another thread about that. I'm going to search it now again.


I have the same issue when I used the TV settings at the top of the list, they only show 60Hz in the Nvidia control panel. I have to use the PC settings to run 4k 120Hz 10bit/12bit. Could also be the cable. If you have a short one that you can try, do so. Also had issues when my DisplayPort PC LCD displays were also connected to the RTX 3080 at the same time.

You can also try disconnecting all video cables from the PC/3080, power the PC off and cut power to the PC, plug only the HDMI cable and power up the PC.











So far (for me) these two work for HDMI 2.1 48Gbps:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KWHHM9V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Agent6er

ACTIVE cables are being CERTIFIED UHS.









Silicon Line and GRL Announce the First Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable | GraniteRiverLabs


GRL began in early 2010 with a vision to provide affordable test services to help hardware developers implement high speed connectivity technologies as these technologies become faster and more complex, and harder and more difficult to test. Today, GRL has worked with over 500 semiconductor and...




graniteriverlabs.com


----------



## Tanquen

Agent6er said:


> ACTIVE cables are being CERTIFIED UHS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Silicon Line and GRL Announce the First Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable | GraniteRiverLabs
> 
> 
> GRL began in early 2010 with a vision to provide affordable test services to help hardware developers implement high speed connectivity technologies as these technologies become faster and more complex, and harder and more difficult to test. Today, GRL has worked with over 500 semiconductor and...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> graniteriverlabs.com


Don't tell Otto.


----------



## Agent6er

Tanquen said:


> Don't tell Otto.


Kinda already did on Post #206, they more or less said it was coming.

This is good news for everyone.


----------



## Tanquen

Agent6er said:


> already did onPost #206


I wonder when a cable will be for sale that uses this hardware?


----------



## Agent6er

Tanquen said:


> I wonder when a cable will be for sale that uses this hardware?


The article says it's a Cable Matters cable, and gives a part number, I'd just keep an eye out for that.

When I click on a Google search link for cable matters 300047 it changes my amazon settings to Spanish. So FYI if you search, odd bug.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Don't tell Otto.


That's been in the works for awhile but there was no reason to post anything about it until confirmed. You know how rumors are. If it pans out with consumer devices that will be good news so I'm guardedly optimistic.

Interesting that the cables appear to be fiber only and not hybrid fiber. Wonder what the cost will be and if there will be any length limitations?

GRL uses Quantum Data 882, Simplay Labs SL8800, Tektronix DPO72004C/DSA8200, etc instrumentation and protocols for testing/certification so that's a good thing.


----------



## bmrowe

Just ordered the RuiPro Gen 3 cable at 100ft to replace a 150ft celerity cable. Hoping to upgrade to eARC and get rid of the occasional screen flicker. This will be between an LG C9 and a Denon x4500. I'll update the thread once I get the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Just ordered the RuiPro Gen 3 cable at 100ft to replace a 150ft celerity cable. Hoping to upgrade to eARC and get rid of the occasional screen flicker. This will be between an LG C9 and a Denon x4500. I'll update the thread once I get the cable.


Yes, do let us know. 100' for eARC can be touch and go depending on how you have the cable installed. Using a conduit (if cable access is not easy), single cable source to sink with no wall plates, extenders, adapters, etc in-between.


----------



## bmrowe

It'll be running through the crawlspace (conditioned/sealed) and no wall plates or connections in between the receiver and tv. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> It'll be running through the crawlspace (conditioned/sealed) and no wall plates or connections in between the receiver and tv. Fingers crossed!


So, underneath the house. Still might not be a bad idea to use some sort of conduit just to keep the cable(s) in an enclosed, dry area and away from any possible critters chewing on it. It would also make it easier to pull cable in the future without having to go back underneath the house.


----------



## a-haanuk

I finally installed the Ruipro cable and have it all up and running, I made a video documenting my use case, hopefully, someone will find it useful.





Article version


----------



## dreal_sow

a-haanuk said:


> I finally installed the Ruipro cable and have it all up and running, I made a video documenting my use case, hopefully someone will find it useful.


Hey do you mind listing the TV model you're using? I'm attempting to use the 33ft length RUIPRO HDMI cable with my LG C9 and have constant drop outs at anything above 8bpc @ 1440 and above. This is the second cable RUIPRO has sent me now that is labeled GEN3-b so I don't believe it is a cable issue and rather a hardware issue on the 3080 side or a firmware/software issue on the Nvidia/Windows side or LG side. There are too many factors to consider where the problem lies but my hunch is that it's on LG's side as there are many others in this thread with the exact same cable and TV experiencing the exact same issues as I am.


----------



## a-haanuk

dreal_sow said:


> Hey do you mind listing the TV model you're using? I'm attempting to use the 33ft length RUIPRO HDMI cable with my LG C9 and have constant drop outs at anything above 8bpc @ 1440 and above. This is the second cable RUIPRO has sent me now that is labeled GEN3-b so I don't believe it is a cable issue and rather a hardware issue on the 3080 side or a firmware/software issue on the Nvidia/Windows side or LG side. There are too many factors to consider where the problem lies but my hunch is that it's on LG's side as there are many others in this thread with the exact same cable and TV experiencing the exact same issues as I am.


It's an LG W9 which is pretty much the same as the C9 except with a different design. I have a C9 also and have tested the cable on that with no issues. It sounds like the cable could possibly be damaged, I had a similar issue with one that Ruipro sent me, turns out one of the wires in the plug disconnected from the board. Might be worth opening it up with an Allen key to have a look to see if it's damaged.


----------



## dreal_sow

a-haanuk said:


> It's an LG W9 which is pretty much the same as the C9 except with a different design. I have a C9 also and have tested the cable on that with no issues. It sounds like the cable could possibly be damaged, I had a similar issue with one that Ruipro sent me, turns out one of the wires in the plug disconnected from the board. Might be worth opening it up with an Allen key to have a look to see if it's damaged.


What firmware are you running on the C9?


----------



## a-haanuk

dreal_sow said:


> What firmware are you running on the C9?


05.00.10


----------



## dreal_sow

a-haanuk said:


> 05.00.10


Hm I'm running 5.00.03, I'm guessing that firmware isn't available in my area yet.


----------



## dreal_sow

Just wanted to provide some detailed documentation of my hardware setup for others experiencing silmilar issues.

*Computer Specs
System Model *X570 AORUS ELITE
*Processor* AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
*GPU Adapter Type* GeForce RTX 3080, NVIDIA compatible (RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA)
*Power Supply* Thermaltake Smart Pro 850-Watt Modular
*Memory *G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200


*Windows Install*
Edition Windows 10 Home

Version 20H2

Installed on ‎12/‎10/‎2020

OS build 19042.685

Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0



*Nvidia Driver Ver. *460.89

*Motherboard Bios Ver. *F31j

*HDMI Cable*: RuiPro Gen8K-3B 33ft. / 10M

*TV*: LG C9 OLED65C9PUA
*TV Firmware: *5.00.03

*Nvidia Control Panel Settings

Resolution:* PC - 3840 x 2160
*Refresh Rate:* 120hz
*Use NVIDIA color settings:
Desktop color depth*: Highest(32-bit)
* Output color depth:* 10bpc
* Output color format*: RGB
* Output dynamic range*: Full

*Windows Display Settings
Use HDR: *On
* Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling: *On
* Variable Refresh Rate*: On

*Display behavior documented in this video*:








20201221_130732


Watch "20201221_130732" on Streamable.




streamable.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> Just wanted to provide some detailed documentation of my hardware setup for others experiencing silmilar issues.
> 
> *Computer Specs
> System Model *X570 AORUS ELITE
> *Processor* AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8-Core Processor, 3593 Mhz, 8 Core(s), 16 Logical Processor(s)
> *GPU Adapter Type* GeForce RTX 3080, NVIDIA compatible (RTX 3080 FTW3 ULTRA)
> *Power Supply* Thermaltake Smart Pro 850-Watt Modular
> *Memory *G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200
> 
> 
> *Windows Install*
> Edition Windows 10 Home
> 
> Version 20H2
> 
> Installed on ‎12/‎10/‎2020
> 
> OS build 19042.685
> 
> Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0
> 
> 
> 
> *Nvidia Driver Ver. *460.89
> 
> *Motherboard Bios Ver. *F31j
> 
> *HDMI Cable*: RuiPro Gen8K-3B 33ft. / 10M
> 
> *TV*: LG C9 OLED65C9PUA
> *TV Firmware: *5.00.03
> 
> *Nvidia Control Panel Settings
> 
> Resolution:* PC - 3840 x 2160
> *Refresh Rate:* 120hz
> *Use NVIDIA color settings:
> Desktop color depth*: Highest(32-bit)
> * Output color depth:* 10bpc
> * Output color format*: RGB
> * Output dynamic range*: Full
> 
> *Windows Display Settings
> Use HDR: *On
> * Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling: *On
> * Variable Refresh Rate*: On
> 
> *Display behavior documented in this video*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20201221_130732
> 
> 
> Watch "20201221_130732" on Streamable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> streamable.com


Have you tried to dial back your settings to figure out which combination works reliably? Do you have another source you can use to check the cable for basic functionality besides your laptop? Straight source to sink connection?


----------



## dreal_sow

Otto Pylot said:


> Have you tried to dial back your settings to figure out which combination works reliably? Do you have another source you can use to check the cable for basic functionality besides your laptop? Straight source to sink connection?


Until I get a PS5 I don't have another HDMI 2.1 compatible device to test unfortunately.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> Until I get a PS5 I don't have another HDMI 2.1 compatible device to test unfortunately.


In the meantime all you can do is try different settings and see what works reliably. What about connecting another device that does not have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets just to check that it is at least ok for the HDMI 2.0 options?


----------



## dreal_sow

Otto Pylot said:


> In the meantime all you can do is try different settings and see what works reliably. What about connecting another device that does not have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets just to check that it is at least ok for the HDMI 2.0 options?


I can confirm dropping the settings to anything HDMI 2.0b seems to work fine. So for example, using 1440p @120hz wi. 8bpc and 4K @60hz wi. 8bpc works fine. Oddly enough turning on "HDR" in windows display settings causes dropouts at those resolutions and bit depth which was never the case before. This same behavior happens if I use my old HDMI 2.0b cable. So that is definitely something driver specific with nvidia.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> I can confirm dropping the settings to anything HDMI 2.0b seems to work fine. So for example, using 1440p @120hz wi. 8bpc and 4K @60hz wi. 8bpc works fine. Oddly enough turning on "HDR" in windows display settings causes dropouts at those resolutions and bit depth which was never the case before. This same behavior happens if I use my old HDMI 2.0b cable. So that is definitely something driver specific with nvidia.


Or Windows 10  .


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> There are lots of posts by folks who have contacted Ruipro support with issues and have been sent replacement cables. Ruipro has about the best reliability now for the hybrid fiber cables and long runs. No matter who you choose, it's going to be a bit of trial and error because there are no guarantees. Period.


I ordered the Ruipro 33 ft cables.


----------



## Chris Kempa

I just got my Ruipro 80ft 2.1 Cable. Plugged into my 3080 and my E9, the cable unfortunately doesn't work. I get flickering/artifacts every few seconds or so. Enough to be distracting. Eventually the screen will lose signal completely and I have to reboot using just my monitor DP. Enough to be distracting. This is in 4k/120 and 4k/60 modes. It includes a hdmi power adapter thing that I have also tried on both ends of the cable, to no avail. My cable says Gen3 so maybe not the latest Gen3-B, but from others, it doesn't seem to work either.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Chris Kempa said:


> I just got my Ruipro 80ft 2.1 Cable. Plugged into my 3080 and my E9, the cable unfortunately doesn't work. I get flickering/artifacts every few seconds or so. Enough to be distracting. Eventually the screen will lose signal completely and I have to reboot using just my monitor DP. Enough to be distracting. This is in 4k/120 and 4k/60 modes. It includes a hdmi power adapter thing that I have also tried on both ends of the cable, to no avail. My cable says Gen3 so maybe not the latest Gen3-B, but from others, it doesn't seem to work either.


80' is very long for any cable run, regardless of the design. For you, it's going to be a lot of trial and error unless you can move your equipment closer together. How is the cable installed and did you lay it out on the floor prior to installation to test it? The voltage inserter is suppled in case it's a current output issue at the source or maybe the sink end. It does work for some but not all.


----------



## foshizzle

foshizzle said:


> I ordered the Ruipro 33 ft cables.


Just received it. Shipping from China to California took 9 days since the order date.

I'm using it now. Played some hdr games for a few min. Seems to be working with Nvidia RTX 3080 and Sony X900H at 4k 120hz 12 bit 444. Tv is 10 bit but card is sending 12 bit signal. I have to wait a few months to confirm VRR is working when Sony releases the vrr patch.


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## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> Just received it. Shipping from China to California took 9 days since the order date.
> 
> I'm using it now. Played some hdr games for a few min. Seems to be working with Nvidia RTX 3080 and Sony X900H at 4k 12 bit 444. Tv is 10 bit but card is sending 12 bit signal. I have to wait a few months to confirm VRR is working when Sony releases the vrr patch.


Just curious but why would you want to send a 12-bit signal to a 10-bit panel? Aren't you asking for issues?


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## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> Just curious but why would you want to send a 12-bit signal to a 10-bit panel? Aren't you asking for issues?


It's working fine. 12 bit is available so the tv can use the extra bit of information if possible.


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## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> 80' is very long for any cable run, regardless of the design. For you, it's going to be a lot of trial and error unless you can move your equipment closer together. How is the cable installed and did you lay it out on the floor prior to installation to test it? The voltage inserter is suppled in case it's a current output issue at the source or maybe the sink end. It does work for some but not all.


Yeah you should always test before you install. Maybe even if you're lucky enough to have an AVR that offers to test the cable that could be handy. But why would it matter how long the cable is? These are fiber cables right? Regardless of design, that's kind of all encompassing. There should be no problem with the longer cable, it's just a question of when there will be a real 48 GBPS cable. Some folks don't have the option of moving their stuff closer together.


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## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> It's working fine. 12 bit is available so the tv can use the extra bit of information if possible.


How can the tv use the "extra" information if it's only designed for 10-bit natively? Just curious.


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## Tanquen

foshizzle said:


> It's working fine. 12 bit is available so the tv can use the extra bit of information if possible.


I could see it along the lines of the TV doing a better job converting from 12 to 10 bit maybe but it's unlikely. I don't have a 12-bit panel to test with but when you have an image or even test patterns specifically for showing banding or you have a long gradient in the same color if you set your desktop to 8-bit color it's very easy to see banding in color gradients. Once you put it to 10-bit color I can't really see that it would be any smoother or that you could make it smoother with 12-bit color. Someday in the future it'll be interesting to see them side by side but I just can't imagine being able to see it. If nothing else that lets you max out your cable and test its stability at or close to 48 GBPS. My RTX 3080 seems to be fine setting it at 10 or 12 bit but I also doubt that anything in a game engine or the Windows desktop is rendered in 12-bit. There aren't any 12-bit panels right now so even if you had something that was a ture 12-bit source it needs to be downgraded at the source or at the TV. It seems like it would be better just to leave it at 10 bit like UHD blu-rays and I'm guessing any games or 8-bit for regular blu-rays.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yeah you should always test before you install. Maybe even if you're lucky enough to have an AVR that offers to test the cable that could be handy. But why would it matter how long the cable is? These are fiber cables right? Regardless of design, that's kind of all encompassing. There should be no problem with the longer cable, it's just a question of when there will be a real 48 GBPS cable. Some folks don't have the option of moving their stuff closer together.


There is apparently a finite distance that is reliable, even with hybrid fiber, that can transmit video data that requires 48Gbps. It's not just speed, it's the data that it contains and the ability to get it from point A to point B with no errors. That's the idea behind active cables, and the technology to do that is still a work in process. I agree that moving your equipment closer together is not an option for some folks but that's the reality at this point in time. HDMI 2.1 offers a lot of options for consumers, gamers and non-gamers alike, but until the HDMI device mfrs (including the chip makers) work more closely with the cable mfrs, problems will continue.


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> How can the tv use the "extra" information if it's only designed for 10-bit natively? Just curious.


I have always maxed the settings on my video card drivers on all my computers and displays (about a dozen) for past 20+ years. No problems. Displays are able to take the 12 or 10 bit signal and use what it needs. There is no performance penalty to the gpu so there really is no reason why you shouldn't max every setting on what your video card is capable of. Exception is those scenarios where you know there is a quality degradation by going up a level.


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## foshizzle

Tanquen said:


> I could see it along the lines of the TV doing a better job converting from 12 to 10 bit maybe but it's unlikely. I don't have a 12-bit panel to test with but when you have an image or even test patterns specifically for showing banding or you have a long gradient in the same color if you set your desktop to 8-bit color it's very easy to see banding in color gradients. Once you put it to 10-bit color I can't really see that it would be any smoother or that you could make it smoother with 12-bit color. Someday in the future it'll be interesting to see them side by side but I just can't imagine being able to see it. If nothing else that lets you max out your cable and test its stability at or close to 48 GBPS. My RTX 3080 seems to be fine setting it at 10 or 12 bit but I also doubt that anything in a game engine or the Windows desktop is rendered in 12-bit. There aren't any 12-bit panels right now so even if you had something that was a ture 12-bit source it needs to be downgraded at the source or at the TV. It seems like it would be better just to leave it at 10 bit like UHD blu-rays and I'm guessing any games or 8-bit for regular blu-rays.


A side by side would be good to test.
But there really is no negative by putting it on 12 bit.


----------



## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> How can the tv use the "extra" information if it's only designed for 10-bit natively? Just curious.


It’s always desirable to do processing (tone mapping, brightness, contrast, etc) at a higher bit depth to avoid rounding errors in the calculations. So feeding a 12-bit signal would eliminate one place where rounding can occur. Also FRC can increase the colour depth of a panel beyond 10-bits.

The PS5 outputs 12-bit so it wouldn’t surprise me if current or future Sony TVs could make use of a 12-bit signal in some way.


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## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> It’s always desirable to do processing (tone mapping, brightness, contrast, etc) at a higher bit depth to avoid rounding errors in the calculations. So feeding a 12-bit signal would eliminate one place where rounding can occur. Also FRC can increase the colour depth of a panel beyond 10-bits.
> 
> The PS5 outputs 12-bit so it wouldn’t surprise me if current or future Sony TVs could make use of a 12-bit signal in some way.


Thanks for the explanation. Is it a possibility that if more data is sent than the tv can natively handle that errors could occur?


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## avernar

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Is it a possibility that if more data is sent than the tv can natively handle that errors could occur?


The bits in a pixel are usually processed in parallel so the limit is the maximum pixel clock and that's indicated in the EDID. And if the TV really doesn't want 12 bits it's trivial to lop off the bottom two bits in dedicated circuitry or a single shift instruction if done in a DSP.

Where the data rate matters is when the signal is still in HDMI form (FRL or TMDS) . But if the TV can't handle the HDMI bandwidth it indicated in the EDID then that's a design flaw.


----------



## Otto Pylot

avernar said:


> The bits in a pixel are usually processed in parallel so the limit is the maximum pixel clock and that's indicated in the EDID. And if the TV really doesn't want 12 bits it's trivial to lop off the bottom two bits in dedicated circuitry or a single shift instruction if done in a DSP.
> 
> Where the data rate matters is when the signal is still in HDMI form (FRL or TMDS) . But if the TV can't handle the HDMI bandwidth it indicated in the EDID then that's a design flaw.


Got it. Thanks!


----------



## Chris Kempa

Otto Pylot said:


> 80' is very long for any cable run, regardless of the design. For you, it's going to be a lot of trial and error unless you can move your equipment closer together. How is the cable installed and did you lay it out on the floor prior to installation to test it? The voltage inserter is suppled in case it's a current output issue at the source or maybe the sink end. It does work for some but not all.


The cable was layed flat before I shoved it into my baseboards. I need at least 75ft of cable to run from my bedroom to living room in my apartment, through the baseboards. It's long, but really the cable should work or not. If I go through the wall instead of around it, I could maybe cut the distance down to ~40ft, but in my research in this case it seems like it would not make much of a difference.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Chris Kempa said:


> The cable was layed flat before I shoved it into my baseboards. I need at least 75ft of cable to run from my bedroom to living room in my apartment, through the baseboards. It's long, but really the cable should work or not. If I go through the wall instead of around it, I could maybe cut the distance down to ~40ft, but in my research in this case it seems like it would not make much of a difference.


Distance is the achilles heel of HDMI, especially for the higher bandwidth requirements. What exactly do you mean by "shoving it into the baseboards"? Are you talking about pushing it down between the carpeting and the base of the baseboard or something else? Did the cable work before you shoved it into the baseboard? If it did, then you probably damaged the cable somehow. And no, there is no guarantee that the cable should work. As a test, could you move your equipment closer to see if 40' gives you better reliability? If not, then return the cable for a replacement or try another brand. It's also possible that you have one of the buggy 3080's. Remote, but a possibility. Could also be pc-related. Have you tried various settings to see where reliability stops? I know that Ruipro tested the Gen-3 and 3b cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and the LG C9/CX and it worked just fine but I don't know about the E9.


----------



## Tanquen

Chris Kempa said:


> The cable was layed flat before I shoved it into my baseboards. I need at least 75ft of cable to run from my bedroom to living room in my apartment, through the baseboards. It's long, but really the cable should work or not. If I go through the wall instead of around it, I could maybe cut the distance down to ~40ft, but in my research in this case it seems like it would not make much of a difference.


Yeah the distance shouldn't matter much for a fiber cable, within reason. One multimode fiber connection should be able to do like 10GB at 300m. Maybe with eARC or something (that's not on the fiber part of the cable?) but the three or four or whatever it is data channels should be going through fiber and should be able to handle and that distance no problem.


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## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yeah the distance shouldn't matter much for a fiber cable, within reason. One multimode fiber connection should be able to do like 10GB at 300m. Maybe with eARC or something (that's not on the fiber part of the cable?) but the three or four or whatever it is data channels should be going through fiber and should be able to handle and that distance no problem.


Hybrid fiber cables use 4 optical fibers for high speed data transfer (instead of copper wires 1-12) and 8 copper wires (instead of copper wires 13-19, and +1 line) for low speed data transfer (ARC, EDID, HDCP). There is usually 0 data loss on the fiber lines as long as the source/sink can deal with it.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Hybrid fiber cables use 4 optical fibers for high speed data transfer (instead of copper wires 1-12) and 8 copper wires (instead of copper wires 13-19, and +1 line) for low speed data transfer (ARC, EDID, HDCP). There is usually 0 data loss on the fiber lines as long as the source/sink can deal with it.


I know but you say conflicting stuff at times and then ask why I post anything. The guy is asking about fiber cables and you say "Distance is the achilles heel of HDMI, especially for the higher bandwidth requirements." and again that "Distance is your enemy." when talking about fiber cables. Distance is always something to watch for, how long do you need, don't get longer than you need, longer than 16' or so (for HDMI 2.1) watch out for passive cables as they are more likely to have issues at full bandwidth and you will likely need some kind of active/fiber cable and so on.

You tell someone with cable issues that it's "buggy 3080's" when it was the HDMI chip in the HDMI 2.1 AVRs and there issue was the cable or settings. Then also say that "I know that Ruipro tested the Gen-3 and 3b cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and the LG C9/CX and it *worked just fine*" and "issues between the 3080 and some devices were reported early on due to some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets with the Nvidia cards. " I can't find anything showing the RTX 3000s have bad or buggy HDMI 2.1 chips. It was the Panasonic HDMI 2.1 bug Denon & Marantz (other?) AVRs.

You say that "80' is very long for any cable run, *regardless of the design*" like it will always be a issue with any cable.

"There are no 100% guarantees that a specific cable will work for all devices and setups. " Again, kind of like there will just always be issues. "regardless of the design"

"No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups. " I just don't see how that can be. With a known bad device, no but should not be an issue with a good device. I don't think anyone is asking the cable to fix a bad HDMI device and 99.9% of bad device issues can't be fixed with a cable. Maybe just really bad week signal.

You seem to say that there is no HDMI standard and that is why cables don't work. I think most would say that is the standard for it and most anything, will it work. No one is stopping the sale of an number of products with or without standards or some governing body that won't let the fly by night company put their log on it.

You say they will not certify long/active cables, HDMI max is 3 meters. Then someone post that someone will. "That's been in the works for awhile but there was no reason to post anything about it until confirmed. " Why not tell people in a thread where folks are looking for that? It just sounds like, oh yeah I knew that too. You and I and others have said that the certification don't mean much anyway. "Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and installations, but at least the consumer knows that the cable has been rigorously tested by HDMI.org "

I just want a thread with the list of known working cables at 48Gbps or as close to as can be tested by someone with a full HDMI 2.1 video card and TV. Maybe start another thread? I don't think the OP will be adding info. Too bad you can have folders or sub-threads in long complicated threads.

I can say these two work at 48Gbps:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1




https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KWHHM9V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Tanquen

Odd... Can't delete duplicate post.


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## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I know but you say conflicting stuff at times and then ask why I post anything. The guy is asking about fiber cables and you say "Distance is the achilles heel of HDMI, especially for the higher bandwidth requirements." and again that "Distance is your enemy." when talking about fiber cables. Distance is always something to watch for, how long do you need, don't get longer than you need, longer than 16' or so (for HDMI 2.1) watch out for passive cables as they are more likely to have issues at full bandwidth and you will likely need some kind of active/fiber cable and so on.
> 
> You tell someone with cable issues that it's "buggy 3080's" when it was the HDMI chip in the HDMI 2.1 AVRs and there issue was the cable or settings. Then also say that "I know that Ruipro tested the Gen-3 and 3b cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and the LG C9/CX and it *worked just fine*" and "issues between the 3080 and some devices were reported early on due to some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets with the Nvidia cards. " I can't find anything showing the RTX 3000s have bad or buggy HDMI 2.1 chips. It was the Panasonic HDMI 2.1 bug Denon & Marantz (other?) AVRs.
> 
> You say that "80' is very long for any cable run, *regardless of the design*" like it will always be a issue with any cable.
> 
> "There are no 100% guarantees that a specific cable will work for all devices and setups. " Again, kind of like there will just always be issues. "regardless of the design"
> 
> "No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with all devices and setups. " I just don't see how that can be. With a known bad device, no but should not be an issue with a good device. I don't think anyone is asking the cable to fix a bad HDMI device and 99.9% of bad device issues can't be fixed with a cable. Maybe just really bad week signal.
> 
> You seem to say that there is no HDMI standard and that is why cables don't work. I think most would say that is the standard for it and most anything, will it work. No one is stopping the sale of an number of products with or without standards or some governing body that won't let the fly by night company put their log on it.
> 
> You say they will not certify long/active cables, HDMI max is 3 meters. Then someone post that someone will. "That's been in the works for awhile but there was no reason to post anything about it until confirmed. " Why not tell people in a thread where folks are looking for that? It just sounds like, oh yeah I knew that too. You and I and others have said that the certification don't mean much anyway. "Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and installations, but at least the consumer knows that the cable has been rigorously tested by HDMI.org "
> 
> I just want a thread with the list of known working cables at 48Gbps or as close to as can be tested by someone with a full HDMI 2.1 video card and TV. Maybe start another thread? I don't think the OP will be adding info. Too bad you can have folders or sub-threads in long complicated threads.
> 
> I can say these two work at 48Gbps:
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KWHHM9V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I suppose I could go point by point with you like you did to my posts (which you seem to want to research) but there's no reason to do so. When I get wind of a new, or improved technology (like certifying active cables), I refrain from posting until there is some sort of official announcement because, as I indicated, there's no reason to start rumors or get hopes high if it doesn't pan out.

Myself and others get new cables sent to us for testing on consumer systems (I have a nice selection of Ruipro and Zeskit cables) to see how they install, their compatibility with various devices, and how well they work with the HDMI 2.0 option sets. I do not have any validated HDMI 2.1 devices to test on so my hands-on experience is with HDMI 2.0 only. But I do have lots of communication with others who do and test with the same cables and both HDMI option sets so there is an exchange of information. All of this is "non-technical" in that none of us have any of the sophisticated testing equipment that ATC labs have. It is more real world/consumer level testing than in-lab testing. I stand by everything I've posted and do correct myself when needed.

I don't see anything wrong or controversial about my response to you with the hybrid fiber cable design.

I would suggest then that you start a new thread, like ARROW_AV did with HDMI 2.0, so you can compile a list of cables that will always work, regardless of length, connected devices, design technology, or HDMI option sets supported. That would be greatly appreciated by all because all of controversy surrounding HDMI will be eliminated along with the trial and error that seems to be prevalent with HDMI cables.


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## foshizzle

pls delete


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## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I suppose I could go point by point with you like you did to my posts (which you seem to want to research) but there's no reason to do so. When I get wind of a new, or improved technology (like certifying active cables), I refrain from posting until there is some sort of official announcement because, as I indicated, there's no reason to start rumors or get hopes high if it doesn't pan out.
> 
> Myself and others get new cables sent to us for testing on consumer systems (I have a nice selection of Ruipro and Zeskit cables) to see how they install, their compatibility with various devices, and how well they work with the HDMI 2.0 option sets. I do not have any validated HDMI 2.1 devices to test on so my hands-on experience is with HDMI 2.0 only. But I do have lots of communication with others who do and test with the same cables and both HDMI option sets so there is an exchange of information. All of this is "non-technical" in that none of us have any of the sophisticated testing equipment that ATC labs have. It is more real world/consumer level testing than in-lab testing. I stand by everything I've posted and do correct myself when needed.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong or controversial about my response to you with the hybrid fiber cable design.
> 
> I would suggest then that you start a new thread, like AV_INTEGRATED did with HDMI 2.0, so you can compile a list of cables that will always work, regardless of length, connected devices, design technology, or HDMI option sets supported. That would be greatly appreciated by all because all of controversy surrounding HDMI will be eliminated along with the trial and error that seems to be prevalent with HDMI cables.


Not a lot of research, the few posts and it's not rumors to talk about certifying active cables, not any more so than all the other stuff. But its ok to say it's buggy RTX 3080 and that fiber cable don't work when long. But you refrain from posting until there is some sort of official announcement because, as I indicated, there's no reason to start rumors or get hopes high if it doesn't pan out. You just kind of ignore stuff and post a bunch of info again or what was just posted and then say things like, why post then. Why do you post?


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## Otto Pylot

@Tanquen I see no reason to continue discussing this as you seem intent on discrediting me. So be it. When you start your thread with proven, validated, what ever terms you choose to use for cables that are guaranteed to work for HDMI 2.0/2.1 regardless of design, length, connected devices, HDMI chipsets, etc I will be the first to link to it and give you all of the kudos that you deserve.


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## DavidinCT

My quest is funky but, I might as well ask to see if there is is a current solution for my problem. I need a 24-25' HDMI cable, as I run my video game consoles on the side of the room. I have been fine up to now, all the way up to a Xbox One X, running @ 4k 60hz.

I grabbed a Xbox Series X, I have tried a few cables, and even a certified cable that was up to 4K 60hz. It will pass 4K 60hz no problem but, 4K 120hz, no way. I will boot up the system, and menu will show up as soon as I start a game, it will go to no signal. If move the console to the floor next to the TV, no problem with 4K 120hz, If I run at 4K 60hz over a long cable, no problem.

I have a 2019 LG 65" 4K tv that has HDMI 2.1 and supports everything the new consoles will support.

Is there a "reasonable" priced 24-25' 4K 120hz HDMI 2.1 cable that will do what I need ?


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## Otto Pylot

DavidinCT said:


> My quest is funky but, I might as well ask to see if there is is a current solution for my problem. I need a 24-25' HDMI cable, as I run my video game consoles on the side of the room. I have been fine up to now, all the way up to a Xbox One X, running @ 4k 60hz.
> 
> I grabbed a Xbox Series X, I have tried a few cables, and even a certified cable that was up to 4K 60hz. It will pass 4K 60hz no problem but, 4K 120hz, no way. I will boot up the system, and menu will show up as soon as I start a game, it will go to no signal. If move the console to the floor next to the TV, no problem with 4K 120hz, If I run at 4K 60hz over a long cable, no problem.
> 
> I have a 2019 LG 65" 4K tv that has HDMI 2.1 and supports everything the new consoles will support.
> 
> Is there a "reasonable" priced 24-25' 4K 120hz HDMI 2.1 cable that will do what I need ?


Reasonably priced cable is what ever you decide is reasonable. Don't mean to sound flippant about it but that's a determination that only you can make. At 25', the knee-jerk response is a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b). They do have a good return policy if it doesn't work out. As far as a certified cable goes, at present, the maximum length for a passive UHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.1) is 5m (16'). PHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.0) are certifiable up to 25'. Active cables, so far, can not be certified at any length, but that may be changing soon. Some active cables come with a voltage inserter (Ruipro for example) and that may help. Some have reported success, others have not. When I was testing their cables I never saw any difference in performance but that doesn't mean it's not worth a shot. If the Ruipro doesn't work out, then you'll just have to try another vendor. Just carefully read their claims, product descriptions, and return policy. 

As far as installation goes, just be careful that you don't have any sharp, 90º bends in the cable because that can affect signal propagation. Keep the installation as simple as possible.


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## LiveEvil

I have two tests to report for this set up using 4k/12 bit/rgb full:

3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k Copper 10ft*>LG 65C9PUA
- successful, have spent approx 10 hours gaming with only 1 drop out at the very beginning

3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k-Gen3B Fiber 20ft *>LG 65C9PUA 
- not successful, frequent drop outs, eventually no signal, tested with and without usb amplifier

I have on question about the fiber cable since so many have had success with it with similar set ups. How does one determine if it is rev. b? Is it just the B in the Gen3B name?


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## Otto Pylot

LiveEvil said:


> I have two tests to report for this set up using 4k/12 bit/rgb full:
> 
> 3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k Copper 10ft*>LG 65C9PUA
> - successful, have spent approx 10 hours gaming with only 1 drop out at the very beginning
> 
> 3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k-Gen3B Fiber 20ft *>LG 65C9PUA
> - not successful, frequent drop outs, eventually no signal, tested with and without usb amplifier
> 
> I have on question about the fiber cable since so many have had success with it with similar set ups. How does one determine if it is rev. b? Is it just the B in the Gen3B name?


There should be green label on the cable, and box, that indicates Gen-3 or Gen-3b. Have you contacted Ruipro about the 20' cable?


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## LiveEvil

Otto Pylot said:


> There should be green label on the cable, and box, that indicates Gen-3 or Gen-3b. Have you contacted Ruipro about the 20' cable?


I contacted them today after more testing. The cable won't even pass 1440p 8bit without glitching. It is Gen-3B; wanted to be sure. TY!


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## Otto Pylot

LiveEvil said:


> I contacted them today after more testing. The cable won't even pass 1440p 8bit without glitching. It is Gen-3B; wanted to be sure. TY!


Hopefully it's just a bad cable (it does happen) and they'll replace it with one that works. Any sharp bends or kinks in the cable run(s)?


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## dreal_sow

LiveEvil said:


> I contacted them today after more testing. The cable won't even pass 1440p 8bit without glitching. It is Gen-3B; wanted to be sure. TY!


What card are you using? 

Ensure you test 1440 @ 8-bit with Windows display settings HDR off.

Also, test 4K (3840 x 2160 under HD display options) @ 60 wi. default color settings.


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## dreal_sow

Also just to comment Rui Pro has responded to my request and confirmed that currently the EVGA FTW3 Ultra I use is apparently incompatible with their cable when running beyond HDMI 2.0b required bandwidth and apparently they are doing further testing and development to produce a new cable that will work.

I will provide an update when I receive the new cable/more info.


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## foshizzle

dreal_sow said:


> Also just to comment Rui Pro has responded to my request and confirmed that currently the EVGA FTW3 Ultra I use is apparently incompatible with their cable when running beyond HDMI 2.0b required bandwidth and apparently they are doing further testing and development to produce a new cable that will work.
> 
> I will provide an update when I receive the new cable/more info.


 3090?

I'm using EVGA 3080 ftw3 ultra with Sony X900H and 33 ft ruipro gen 3b cable just fine.

It doesn't make sense that the evga card would be incompatible, but other aib cards would be ok.


----------



## Soulstoner

LiveEvil said:


> I have two tests to report for this set up using 4k/12 bit/rgb full:
> 
> 3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k Copper 10ft*>LG 65C9PUA
> - successful, have spent approx 10 hours gaming with only 1 drop out at the very beginning
> 
> 3090 (EVGA Kingpin)>*Ruipro 8k-Gen3B Fiber 20ft *>LG 65C9PUA
> - not successful, frequent drop outs, eventually no signal, tested with and without usb amplifier
> 
> I have on question about the fiber cable since so many have had success with it with similar set ups. How does one determine if it is rev. b? Is it just the B in the Gen3B name?


I had a EVGA XC3 Ultra that wouldn't work with the 30ft RUIPRO Gen3b @ 4K 120, but would work with a 6ft cable. I ended up RMA'ing the card for some flashings lights on the power connector and this new card works 99% with the 30ft cable now. It might be worth sending yours in for RMA. It seems some of these cards HDMI chipsets aren't getting/delivering enough power for the longer cable runs.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soulstoner said:


> I had a EVGA XC3 Ultra that wouldn't work with the 30ft RUIPRO Gen3b @ 4K 120, but would work with a 6ft cable. I ended up RMA'ing the card for some flashings lights on the power connector and this new card works 99% with the 30ft cable now. It might be worth sending yours in for RMA. It seems some of these cards HDMI chipsets aren't getting/delivering enough power for the longer cable runs.


That's what makes this so frustrating is that is it the cable or the card? Some are convinced that it's not the card at all and is always the cable. It's unfortunate that you experienced the issue with the card but it's nice to hear that it's not always the cable. I know Ruipro has taken great pains to make their cables compatible with various devices from their side of things.


----------



## foshizzle

Soulstoner said:


> I had a EVGA XC3 Ultra that wouldn't work with the 30ft RUIPRO Gen3b @ 4K 120, but would work with a 6ft cable. I ended up RMA'ing the card for some flashings lights on the power connector and this new card works 99% with the 30ft cable now. It might be worth sending yours in for RMA. It seems some of these cards HDMI chipsets aren't getting/delivering enough power for the longer cable runs.


99%?

How does it not work? If its not 100% then it is faulty.


----------



## Agent6er

Whoops, If anyone saw that disregard I was one number off the PN, in the Amazon page actually says it's discontinued, which I doubt because it hasn't been released yet.

Monoprice just put a new copper cable up for sale, but it's not certified. So much for the goal of every cable being certified once the testing standard was ready.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> Whoops, If anyone saw that disregard I was one number off the PN, in the Amazon page actually says it's discontinued, which I doubt because it hasn't been released yet.
> 
> Monoprice just put a new copper cable up for sale, but it's not certified. So much for the goal of every cable being certified once the testing standard was ready.


Missed the post. Which cable was it? Testing is expensive so it's not surprising that Monoprice, who is a reseller, doesn't purchase cables that are only certified from who ever supplies the cables.


----------



## LiveEvil

dreal_sow said:


> What card are you using?
> 
> Ensure you test 1440 @ 8-bit with Windows display settings HDR off.
> 
> Also, test 4K (3840 x 2160 under HD display options) @ 60 wi. default color settings.


A 3090 kingpin. I have tested both of the above with no discernible difference - constant disconnects then eventual loss of signal. To correct that, I either switch input and back, or re-insert the cable.



Soulstoner said:


> I had a EVGA XC3 Ultra that wouldn't work with the 30ft RUIPRO Gen3b @ 4K 120, but would work with a 6ft cable. I ended up RMA'ing the card for some flashings lights on the power connector and this new card works 99% with the 30ft cable now. It might be worth sending yours in for RMA. It seems some of these cards HDMI chipsets aren't getting/delivering enough power for the longer cable runs.


Interesting and thank you for the reply. I would hate to rma the card when it's working fine otherwise. Is there a way to test to know for sure? I guess I could order another well vetted cable and test. Were there any other variables to consider. Like did the ruipro work with your old card with hdmi 2b specs like 4k 60?


----------



## Soulstoner

foshizzle said:


> 99%?
> 
> How does it not work? If its not 100% then it is faulty.


It works 99% of the time, just as I said. 1% of the time it will black out and reconnect then can be good for the remainder of the session. I'm not 100% happy with the result, but I'm 99% of the way there.


----------



## dreal_sow

Soulstoner said:


> I had a EVGA XC3 Ultra that wouldn't work with the 30ft RUIPRO Gen3b @ 4K 120, but would work with a 6ft cable. I ended up RMA'ing the card for some flashings lights on the power connector and this new card works 99% with the 30ft cable now. It might be worth sending yours in for RMA. It seems some of these cards HDMI chipsets aren't getting/delivering enough power for the longer cable runs.


This seems like a large assumption and until an official statement is released from the EVGA team we can't really say it's this or that. The only cited source related to HDMI 2.1 buggy chipsets is in regards to certain AV receivers, it has nothing to do with 30 series GPUs.

Like I posted earlier I'm waiting on some messaging from RuiPro. Will probably take 2-3 months but I'll update here with any news if that changes. Also, I'll look into testing the certified cable from cable-matters when it releases.


----------



## Soulstoner

dreal_sow said:


> This seems like a large assumption and until an official statement is released from the EVGA team is made available we can't really say it's this or that. The only cited source related to HDMI 2.1 buggy chipsets is in regards to certain AV receivers.
> 
> Like I posted earlier I'm waiting on some messaging from RuiPro. Will probably take 2-3 months but I'll update here with any news if that changes. Also, I'll look into testing the certified cable from cable-matters when it releases.


Large assumption? I have anecdotal evidence. The power connectors on the board had intermittent flashing red lights. Swapping the card for one that didn't exhibit this behavior resolved the issue.


----------



## foshizzle

Soulstoner said:


> It works 99% of the time, just as I said. 1% of the time it will black out and reconnect then can be good for the remainder of the session. I'm not 100% happy with the result, but I'm 99% of the way there.


The EVGA 3080 video cards have been failing at a rate that feels high. You could go and check on their forums. At least one thread per day of someone saying their card failed.

Black screens have been happening to people too. It could be the card.


----------



## bmrowe

Got my 30m 8k cable from RUIPro today. Unfortunately, having some issues. Setup is xbox series x -> LG C9 -> RUIPro cable -> Denon x4500. This was replacing a Celerity fiber cable that was 50m+ in hopes of trying out eARC.

Everything works fine until I select Dolby Atmos on the xbox. Then things really hit the fan. While Atmos "works", it also has frequent audio drop outs and complete audio loss when switching between games. So, things don't seem promising. Every other audio format works (uncompressed 5.1/7.1 + bitstream DTS/DD) as expected with no drops or issues. The Xbox also seems to almost become sluggish if I play 4k/120hz + Atmos. 

Anyone got any troubleshooting tips, or is it back to the drawing board to try another cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Got my 30m 8k cable from RUIPro today. Unfortunately, having some issues. Setup is xbox series x -> LG C9 -> RUIPro cable -> Denon x4500. This was replacing a Celerity fiber cable that was 50m+ in hopes of trying out eARC.
> 
> Everything works fine until I select Dolby Atmos on the xbox. Then things really hit the fan. While Atmos "works", it also has frequent audio drop outs and complete audio loss when switching between games. So, things don't seem promising. Every other audio format works (uncompressed 5.1/7.1 + bitstream DTS/DD) as expected with no drops or issues. The Xbox also seems to almost become sluggish if I play 4k/120hz + Atmos.
> 
> Anyone got any troubleshooting tips, or is it back to the drawing board to try another cable?


30m is a really long run. How do you have your cabling installed? Any sharp 90º bends or crimping of the cable? Did it work prior to final installation? Is it the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b cable? How is the XBox connected to the C9?


----------



## bmrowe

Otto Pylot said:


> 30m is a really long run. How do you have your cabling installed? Any sharp 90º bends or crimping of the cable? Did it work prior to final installation? Is it the Ruipro 8k Gen-3b cable? How is the XBox connected to the C9?


The cabling is just running through the house right now as a test. No major bends. And yes, Gen 3B cable. Xbox is connected via the HDMI cable that it came with.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> The cabling is just running through the house right now as a test. No major bends. And yes, Gen 3B cable. Xbox is connected via the HDMI cable that it came with.


Could you run the 8k cable between the XBox and C9, bypassing the Denon as a test?


----------



## bmrowe

Otto Pylot said:


> Could you run the 8k cable between the XBox and C9, bypassing the Denon as a test?


For sure. What exactly would we want to test? I've been doing some testing tonight too. I've been playing 4K Dolby Vision + Atmos Netflix videos on the xbox. I get a cutout/audio-dropout maybe once every 2 minutes, which is way less frequent than I saw with Call of Duty Cold War or Forza Horizon 4.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> For sure. What exactly would we want to test? I've been doing some testing tonight too. I've been playing 4K Dolby Vision + Atmos Netflix videos on the xbox. I get a cutout/audio-dropout maybe once every 2 minutes, which is way less frequent than I saw with Call of Duty Cold War or Forza Horizon 4.


I was just thinking that if the 8k worked as expected, then maybe it would be the LG having issues passing Atmos, or the XBox cable, or the Denon. Just thinking about different scenarios to see if there was something that could be ruled out or ruled in. Check with Ruipro?


----------



## a-haanuk

bmrowe said:


> For sure. What exactly would we want to test? I've been doing some testing tonight too. I've been playing 4K Dolby Vision + Atmos Netflix videos on the xbox. I get a cutout/audio-dropout maybe once every 2 minutes, which is way less frequent than I saw with Call of Duty Cold War or Forza Horizon 4.


I'm experiencing drop outs in audio when using atmos on my pc with a 3090FE and Ruipro's Gen3b, after awhile it stops dropping out but I experience it for at least half an hour every few minutes.

7.1 and stereo settings don't have any issues, I don't think it's a major issue for me to be fair.


----------



## bmrowe

a-haanuk said:


> I'm experiencing drop outs in audio when using atmos on my pc with a 3090FE and Ruipro's Gen3b, after awhile it stops dropping out but I experience it for at least half an hour every few minutes.
> 
> 7.1 and stereo settings don't have any issues, I don't think it's a major issue for me to be fair.


How long is your cable run? And no receiver, just the TV and PC?


----------



## a-haanuk

bmrowe said:


> How long is your cable run? And no receiver, just the TV and PC?


20M cable run from the PC directly into my TV (W9) using earc to get Dolby Atmos from my receiver - I don't have an HDMI 2.1 receiver at the moment.


----------



## Soulstoner

a-haanuk said:


> I'm experiencing drop outs in audio when using atmos on my pc with a 3090FE and Ruipro's Gen3b, after awhile it stops dropping out but I experience it for at least half an hour every few minutes.
> 
> 7.1 and stereo settings don't have any issues, I don't think it's a major issue for me to be fair.


I've started noticing this too. Although I think if you give it more time the 7.1 will drop out as well. I've tried DTS:X as well with similar drop outs, although not near as often as the Atmos drop outs.


----------



## a-haanuk

Soulstoner said:


> I've started noticing this too. Although I think if you give it more time the 7.1 will drop out as well. I've tried DTS:X as well with similar drop outs, although not near as often as the Atmos drop outs.


I can live with it tbh, it doesn't bother me that much since it stops after 30mins or so - I'm just happy I can get 4k120!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> How long is your cable run? And no receiver, just the TV and PC?


PC seems to be a common component, at least on a couple posts. I'm wondering if it's related, or partially related to the PC setup?


----------



## bmrowe

bmrowe said:


> Got my 30m 8k cable from RUIPro today. Unfortunately, having some issues. Setup is xbox series x -> LG C9 -> RUIPro cable -> Denon x4500. This was replacing a Celerity fiber cable that was 50m+ in hopes of trying out eARC.
> 
> Everything works fine until I select Dolby Atmos on the xbox. Then things really hit the fan. While Atmos "works", it also has frequent audio drop outs and complete audio loss when switching between games. So, things don't seem promising. Every other audio format works (uncompressed 5.1/7.1 + bitstream DTS/DD) as expected with no drops or issues. The Xbox also seems to almost become sluggish if I play 4k/120hz + Atmos.
> 
> Anyone got any troubleshooting tips, or is it back to the drawing board to try another cable?


Ran a test with the 30m cable between the xbox and the C9 as Otto suggested. 4k120 Dolby Vision/ Atmos (via xbox, through tv speakers) plays fine with no hiccups. Not sure what exactly that tells us, but eARC seems like the issue.


----------



## a-haanuk

bmrowe said:


> Ran a test with the 30m cable between the xbox and the C9 as Otto suggested. 4k120 Dolby Vision/ Atmos (via xbox, through tv speakers) plays fine with no hiccups. Not sure what exactly that tells us, but eARC seems like the issue.


That could be it, I'll give it a go as well


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Ran a test with the 30m cable between the xbox and the C9 as Otto suggested. 4k120 Dolby Vision/ Atmos (via xbox, through tv speakers) plays fine with no hiccups. Not sure what exactly that tells us, but eARC seems like the issue.


Interesting. I know there were initial issues with eARC over a given distance but I was hoping that had been finally worked out due to the design of hybrid fiber cables (using the dedicated copper wiring and the ethernet channel). I'm wondering if this is an eARC implementation issue between connected devices (similar to CEC issues?).


----------



## LiveEvil

dreal_sow said:


> This seems like a large assumption and until an official statement is released from the EVGA team we can't really say it's this or that. The only cited source related to HDMI 2.1 buggy chipsets is in regards to certain AV receivers, it has nothing to do with 30 series GPUs.
> 
> Like I posted earlier I'm waiting on some messaging from RuiPro. Will probably take 2-3 months but I'll update here with any news if that changes. Also, I'll look into testing the certified cable from cable-matters when it releases.


Ruipro got back to me with this:

_The EVGA GPUs may be not compatible with our 8K Fiber HDMI cable at present.
While most of other 3080/3090 GPUs can work well with our 8K fiber HDMI cable.
Currently we have not fould the solution and the solution would come out in the end of Jan.,2021. 
Once we upgrade to support EVGA GPU, I will send it to you immediately._

Weird. I'll keep looking for another 16-20ft'er I guess; eventually may go back to EVGA if nothing works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

LiveEvil said:


> Ruipro got back to me with this:
> 
> _The EVGA GPUs may be not compatible with our 8K Fiber HDMI cable at present.
> While most of other 3080/3090 GPUs can work well with our 8K fiber HDMI cable.
> Currently we have not fould the solution and the solution would come out in the end of Jan.,2021.
> Once we upgrade to support EVGA GPU, I will send it to you immediately._
> 
> Weird. I'll keep looking for another 16-20ft'er I guess; eventually may go back to EVGA if nothing works.


That's unfortunate. One would think that if HDMI 2.1 implementation was consistent throughout the various devices there wouldn't be so many compatibility issues. At least Ruipro is responsive to the customer and is working on it.


----------



## 5468467984

bmrowe said:


> Got my 30m 8k cable from RUIPro today. Unfortunately, having some issues. Setup is xbox series x -> LG C9 -> RUIPro cable -> Denon x4500. This was replacing a Celerity fiber cable that was 50m+ in hopes of trying out eARC.
> 
> Everything works fine until I select Dolby Atmos on the xbox. Then things really hit the fan. While Atmos "works", it also has frequent audio drop outs and complete audio loss when switching between games. So, things don't seem promising. Every other audio format works (uncompressed 5.1/7.1 + bitstream DTS/DD) as expected with no drops or issues. The Xbox also seems to almost become sluggish if I play 4k/120hz + Atmos.
> 
> Anyone got any troubleshooting tips, or is it back to the drawing board to try another cable?


eARC still runs over copper in these hybrid cables. To what I understand, eARC cannot go beyond 15m over copper, reliably. So yes, the problem is that you are trying to run eARC over 30m length, which is twice as much. 

In your case, the only way to make this happen (that I can think of) is to go for an expensive pure fiber cable ($2-3k), not hybrid cable. Pure fibre cables use an OM4 cable with fully optical transceivers on both ends, not fiber copper hybrid.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> eARC still runs over copper in these hybrid cables. To what I understand, eARC cannot go beyond 15m over copper, reliably. So yes, the problem is that you are trying to run eARC over 30m length, which is twice as much.
> 
> In your case, the only way to make this happen (that I can think of) is to go for an expensive pure fiber cable ($2-3k), not hybrid cable. Pure fibre cables use an OM4 cable with fully optical transceivers on both ends, not fiber copper hybrid.


The hybrid fiber mfrs are trying to work out the distance limitations by using the unused, ethernet copper wire channels but they obviously still have a ways to go. OM3/4 (optical multimode laser optimized) cabling is prohibitively expensive for residential consumer use, among other issues, so I wouldn't expect to see it in general use for quite a long time. It would be nice though,


----------



## bmrowe

Soul_ said:


> eARC still runs over copper in these hybrid cables. To what I understand, eARC cannot go beyond 15m over copper, reliably. So yes, the problem is that you are trying to run eARC over 30m length, which is twice as much.
> 
> In your case, the only way to make this happen (that I can think of) is to go for an expensive pure fiber cable ($2-3k), not hybrid cable. Pure fibre cables use an OM4 cable with fully optical transceivers on both ends, not fiber copper hybrid.


I think the celerity cable we have now is fiber, but doesn't support 2.1. Do you have a recommended brand of fiber cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> I think the celerity cable we have now is fiber, but doesn't support 2.1. Do you have a recommended brand of fiber cable?


There are some mfrs of fiber-only HDMI cables that claim to support HDMI 2.1 but you have to read the specs very carefully and play close attention to the return policies. I Googled around and found a few. However, fiber only cables can not carry power so you really need to keep the connection source to sink with nothing in-between. Some of the seemingly better ones do come with a power inserter if needed. Trial and error if you want fiber only at long distances that support HDMI 2.1.


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> The hybrid fiber mfrs are trying to work out the distance limitations by using the unused, ethernet copper wire channels but they obviously still have a ways to go. OM3/4 (optical multimode laser optimized) cabling is prohibitively expensive for residential consumer use, among other issues, so I wouldn't expect to see it in general use for quite a long time. It would be nice though,



Agreed, trickle down is not happening anytime soon on pure fiber. And given this man's situation, that does seem like his only option.


----------



## 5468467984

bmrowe said:


> I think the celerity cable we have now is fiber, but doesn't support 2.1. Do you have a recommended brand of fiber cable?



FIBBR is pure fiber HDMI 2.1 cable manufactured by everprotech from China. I spoke to their regional sales office for NA, and they gave me the price of $3k before shipping for 15m. But since I was still in copper eARC limit, was an expense I didn't need. So, I picked up RUIPro instead.


----------



## Agent6er

Alibaba has starting showing some listings for Certified UHS cables. Only a few, but did see at least one with a minimum order of 2, at a unit price under $4 for 3m copper cables. One listing just says it's Certified Ultra, another one shows the QR code infographic from the announcement years ago. It's not their express site so you'd have to set up a communication line with the company to place an order, but I figured it won't be long until either the 5x markup lowers or aliexpress listings show up.

Example of one:





Source Certified Latest HDMII Version High Speed 48Gbps Support Dynamic HDR TDR Test 8K 60Hz 4K 120Hz Resolution HDMI Cable on m.alibaba.com


Certified Latest HDMII Version High Speed 48Gbps Support Dynamic HDR TDR Test 8K 60Hz 4K 120Hz Resolution HDMI Cable, You can get more details about from mobile site on m.alibaba.com




m.alibaba.com






Also, if you need a laugh, look up the AudioQuest Carbon UHS cables. The reviews are even more fun, I think they come with a special cup of KoolAid.


----------



## bmrowe

Anyone have any familiarity with this fiber cable? Specs seem promising, but could just be marketing:








best hdmi 2.1 cable | 4k hdmi gaming cable | 8k hdmi 100ft






www.fibercommand.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Agent6er said:


> Also, if you need a laugh, look up the AudioQuest Carbon UHS cables. The reviews are even more fun, I think they come with a special cup of KoolAid.


AudioQuest has been dipping into the KoolAid for a long time .They are as bad as Monster imo and both are kings at over hype and claims.


----------



## LocutusH

Just throwing my experience in here with some questions.
I am using a 55CX with 3080 FTW3 Ultra.
4K 120Hz RGB 8 bit is always stable.
Once i turn on gsync, there is ocassional flicker. Sometimes, not always. Turning off and on instant game response (gsync on tv side) seems to always solve the image stability. If i raise the bit depth to 10 bit or even HDR, the flicker/nosignal/invalidsignal problem just gets more frequent.
So while i am able to use it 4k120gsync, i ocassionally have to work around a bit to get it stable.

I tried these two cables until now:

AudioQuest Pearl 48 1.5m - has no hdmi 2.1 certificate, but does 48gbps. Also costs quite a bit...
Club3D CAC-1372 2m - this has the certificate sticker on it, seems also a bit more stable.

Can anyone confirm his experience with these cables? Or another cables in the same situation? 

Also another question: On the GPU side, i cant seem to fit the HDMI connector properly, because one of rear fins of the PC case is too near the GPU's connectors. This means, that the HDMI connector does not go 100% deep into the GPU, the fin holds it 1mm away. Can this be a problem? Like on this picture (mine is very similar): https://i.redd.it/tohd6vsyxo551.jpg


----------



## Selden Ball

LocutusH said:


> Just throwing my experience in here with some questions.
> I am using a 55CX with 3080 FTW3 Ultra.
> 4K 120Hz RGB 8 bit is always stable.
> Once i turn on gsync, there is ocassional flicker. Sometimes, not always. Turning off and on instant game response (gsync on tv side) seems to always solve the image stability. If i raise the bit depth to 10 bit or even HDR, the flicker/nosignal/invalidsignal problem just gets more frequent.
> So while i am able to use it 4k120gsync, i ocassionally have to work around a bit to get it stable.
> 
> I tried these two cables until now:
> 
> AudioQuest Pearl 48 1.5m - has no hdmi 2.1 certificate, but does 48gbps. Also costs quite a bit...
> Club3D CAC-1372 2m - this has the certificate sticker on it, seems also a bit more stable.
> 
> Can anyone confirm his experience with these cables? Or another cables in the same situation?
> 
> Also another question: On the GPU side, i cant seem to fit the HDMI connector properly, because one of rear fins of the PC case is too near the GPU's connectors. This means, that the HDMI connector does not go 100% deep into the GPU, the fin holds it 1mm away. Can this be a problem? Like on this picture (mine is very similar): https://i.redd.it/tohd6vsyxo551.jpg


Yes, that spacing can cause problems. HDMI connectors need to be fully seated.

In some cases you can flex cards enough while installing them so that their connectors are far enough away from the edges of the case’s cutout for cables to seat properly. I dunno if you can manage to do that with your card, though.


----------



## dreal_sow

LocutusH said:


> Just throwing my experience in here with some questions.
> I am using a 55CX with 3080 FTW3 Ultra.
> 4K 120Hz RGB 8 bit is always stable.
> Once i turn on gsync, there is ocassional flicker. Sometimes, not always. Turning off and on instant game response (gsync on tv side) seems to always solve the image stability. If i raise the bit depth to 10 bit or even HDR, the flicker/nosignal/invalidsignal problem just gets more frequent.
> So while i am able to use it 4k120gsync, i ocassionally have to work around a bit to get it stable.
> 
> I tried these two cables until now:
> 
> AudioQuest Pearl 48 1.5m - has no hdmi 2.1 certificate, but does 48gbps. Also costs quite a bit...
> Club3D CAC-1372 2m - this has the certificate sticker on it, seems also a bit more stable.
> 
> Can anyone confirm his experience with these cables? Or another cables in the same situation?
> 
> Also another question: On the GPU side, i cant seem to fit the HDMI connector properly, because one of rear fins of the PC case is too near the GPU's connectors. This means, that the HDMI connector does not go 100% deep into the GPU, the fin holds it 1mm away. Can this be a problem? Like on this picture (mine is very similar): https://i.redd.it/tohd6vsyxo551.jpg


The fins on my case also provide some problems for larger hdmi inputs (my older hdmi 2.0b cable had the plastic on the input riding up against the fin with my 3080 and my case), however this doesn't seem to be a problem with the RuiPro cable as it is seated 100% into the socket.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dreal_sow said:


> The fins on my case also provide some problems for larger hdmi inputs (my older hdmi 2.0b cable had the plastic on the input riding up against the fin with my 3080 and my case), however this doesn't seem to be a problem with the RuiPro cable as it is seated 100% into the socket.


That was one of the nice things about the Ruipro cables I discovered when I was testing them was their slim design connectors. Horizontally or vertically they always fit nice and snug without having to force or wiggle them in place.


----------



## bagspacked

Hey - has anyone tested the Ruipro gen 3 cables with an Nvidia Founders' Edition 3080? 

I am in the process of building a PC and have a choice between an EVGA card and a Founders' Edition. I will need a 20ft cable to my TV. I had been planning to use the EVGA card but if the Founders' Edition is confirmed to work while EVGA remains iffy, I may change my mind. Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bagspacked said:


> Hey - has anyone tested the Ruipro gen 3 cables with an Nvidia Founders' Edition 3080?
> 
> I am in the process of building a PC and have a choice between an EVGA card and a Founders' Edition. I will need a 20ft cable to my TV. I had been planning to use the EVGA card but if the Founders' Edition is confirmed to work while EVGA remains iffy, I may change my mind. Thanks!


I'm not familiar with the difference between the Founder's Edition and the EVGA card but I would suspect that they both use the same HDMI 2.1 chipsets. The Ruipro 8k Gen 3 and 3b cables have been tested with the 3080/3090 cards and they worked fine in-lab, and there have been reports that in consumer setups they have worked as expected. That being said, there are still no 100% guarantees that a given cable will work with any setup. A 20' run (with no sharp bends and a single connection source to sink) is in your favor.


----------



## Brettcp

LiveEvil said:


> Ruipro got back to me with this:
> 
> _The EVGA GPUs may be not compatible with our 8K Fiber HDMI cable at present.
> While most of other 3080/3090 GPUs can work well with our 8K fiber HDMI cable.
> Currently we have not fould the solution and the solution would come out in the end of Jan.,2021.
> Once we upgrade to support EVGA GPU, I will send it to you immediately._
> 
> Weird. I'll keep looking for another 16-20ft'er I guess; eventually may go back to EVGA if nothing works.


I've been testing updated revisions of their 100ft cable for them over the last couple of months (providing them with lots of test results from different sources to different displays, including my EVGA 3090 and Sony X900H), and they told me the same as what you were told - there are issues with EVGA cards which they have not yet resolved. The 100ft cable seems to work with everything I've thrown at it, with the exception of the EVGA 3090. I hope they can resolve this!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> I've been testing updated revisions of their 100ft cable for them over the last couple of months (providing them with lots of test results from different sources to different displays, including my EVGA 3090 and Sony X900H), and they told me the same as what you were told - there are issues with EVGA cards which they have not yet resolved. The 100ft cable seems to work with everything I've thrown at it, with the exception of the EVGA 3090. I hope they can resolve this!


........ or EVGA can figure out what's wrong and fix it, or at least work more closely with the cable mfrs to resolve the issue. It's too easy to blame the active cable mfrs if there is a design flaw or a mfr'ing issue in the cards. Because of the demands of the 3080/3090 cards, the cables probably need tighter specs for long distances and reliability, even with the use of a voltage inserter, so whichever one is at fault, or a little bit of both, they need to work together.


----------



## 5468467984

bmrowe said:


> Anyone have any familiarity with this fiber cable? Specs seem promising, but could just be marketing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best hdmi 2.1 cable | 4k hdmi gaming cable | 8k hdmi 100ft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fibercommand.com


It still seems to be a hybrid cable. I highly doubt that it will perform better than RUIPro, but you can check it out.




LocutusH said:


> Just throwing my experience in here with some questions.
> I am using a 55CX with 3080 FTW3 Ultra.
> 4K 120Hz RGB 8 bit is always stable.
> Once i turn on gsync, there is ocassional flicker. Sometimes, not always. Turning off and on instant game response (gsync on tv side) seems to always solve the image stability. If i raise the bit depth to 10 bit or even HDR, the flicker/nosignal/invalidsignal problem just gets more frequent.
> So while i am able to use it 4k120gsync, i ocassionally have to work around a bit to get it stable.
> 
> I tried these two cables until now:
> 
> AudioQuest Pearl 48 1.5m - has no hdmi 2.1 certificate, but does 48gbps. Also costs quite a bit...
> Club3D CAC-1372 2m - this has the certificate sticker on it, seems also a bit more stable.
> 
> Can anyone confirm his experience with these cables? Or another cables in the same situation?
> 
> Also another question: On the GPU side, i cant seem to fit the HDMI connector properly, because one of rear fins of the PC case is too near the GPU's connectors. This means, that the HDMI connector does not go 100% deep into the GPU, the fin holds it 1mm away. Can this be a problem? Like on this picture (mine is very similar): https://i.redd.it/tohd6vsyxo551.jpg


I used this cable (Cable Matters 3-Pack 48Gbps Ultra 8K HDMI Cable with 8K 120Hz and HDR Support - 2m, 6.6 Feet: Amazon.ca: Electronics) between my C9 and 3080 for good 2 weeks (4k120 at 444 with 12 bit colour), no problems what-so-ever. Cheap and reliable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Soul_ said:


> It still seems to be a hybrid cable. I highly doubt that it will perform better than RUIPro, but you can check it out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used this cable (Cable Matters 3-Pack 48Gbps Ultra 8K HDMI Cable with 8K 120Hz and HDR Support - 2m, 6.6 Feet: Amazon.ca: Electronics) between my C9 and 3080 for good 2 weeks (4k120 at 444 with 12 bit colour), no problems what-so-ever. Cheap and reliable.


At 2m it should. Which ever cable works is the right cable .


----------



## 5468467984

Otto Pylot said:


> At 2m it should. Which ever cable works is the right cable .


Yep. This guy was ready pay a lot of money, for similar product, thought I should let him know that he doesn't need to.


----------



## gbynum

LocutusH said:


> Also another question: On the GPU side, i cant seem to fit the HDMI connector properly, because one of rear fins of the PC case is too near the GPU's connectors. This means, that the HDMI connector does not go 100% deep into the GPU, the fin holds it 1mm away. Can this be a problem? Like on this picture (mine is very similar): https://i.redd.it/tohd6vsyxo551.jpg


Darn connectors that don't stick far enough above the circuit board! If it were mine, I'd gently attack the case and VERY SLIGHTLY bend the bracket with a pair of pliers.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> Darn connectors that don't stick far enough above the circuit board! If it were mine, I'd gently attack the case and VERY SLIGHTLY bend the bracket with a pair of pliers.


I agree. Another potential issue that some folks don't consider a possibility for failure or issues. Given the demands of the current video standards it's even more important to have a snug, proper fit and a connector port that is well seated.


----------



## foshizzle

HDMI has the worst possible connection. Older ports are loose. They should've used a latch (like DP) or screws (like dvi)

It's even worse with those thick copper cables. The inflexibility puts so much stress on the ports.


----------



## sooner2k

Is the Ruipro Gen 3 still the most recent version available from the vendor? 

I have a cable run that i'll need an electrician to snake for me, and I think 50 feet would do it, but 60 feet might be safer. Does the risk of connectivity issues go up a decent amount by going with a 60 ft cable compared to the 50 ft?


----------



## Otto Pylot

sooner2k said:


> Is the Ruipro Gen 3 still the most recent version available from the vendor?
> 
> I have a cable run that i'll need an electrician to snake for me, and I think 50 feet would do it, but 60 feet might be safer. Does the risk of connectivity issues go up a decent amount by going with a 60 ft cable compared to the 50 ft?


If you purchase from Amazon they usually control the inventory they have and will ship whatever cable they have ready to go. So if there are Gen-3 and Gen-3b cables available you will get whatever they grab until one of the other is out of stock.

There are no hard fast rules or guarantees about 50' working better than 60'. It's still a bit of a trial and error. It's always best to keep your run as short as is possible or reasonable but a 60' cable may be as reliable as a 50' cable. Are you going to run your cable in a conduit? I would certainly test the cable out before final installation so if it doesn't work or issues develop it could be how the cable was installed. Make sure the cable is not pulled from the connector ends or there are any sharp bends. Conduit, if possible, with a pull string, is the safest way to install long run cables if you don't have easy access to your cabling. It also makes cable upgrades, which you will be doing in the future, so much easier. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof cabling. Single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection.


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> HDMI has the worst possible connection. Older ports are loose. They should've used a latch (like DP) or screws (like dvi)
> 
> It's even worse with those thick copper cables. The inflexibility puts so much stress on the ports.


Agreed. That's why I caution folks on the certified UHS HDMI cables that they will be thicker than hybrid fiber, and a thicker cable results in less flexibility which may put undue stress on the HDMI port. They are not made for tight fits.


----------



## sooner2k

Otto Pylot said:


> If you purchase from Amazon they usually control the inventory they have and will ship whatever cable they have ready to go. So if there are Gen-3 and Gen-3b cables available you will get whatever they grab until one of the other is out of stock.
> 
> There are no hard fast rules or guarantees about 50' working better than 60'. It's still a bit of a trial and error. It's always best to keep your run as short as is possible or reasonable but a 60' cable may be as reliable as a 50' cable. Are you going to run your cable in a conduit? I would certainly test the cable out before final installation so if it doesn't work or issues develop it could be how the cable was installed. Make sure the cable is not pulled from the connector ends or there are any sharp bends. Conduit, if possible, with a pull string, is the safest way to install long run cables if you don't have easy access to your cabling. It also makes cable upgrades, which you will be doing in the future, so much easier. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof cabling. Single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection.


Is there a way to purchase directly from Ruipro or if i'm purchasing one on Amazon that's not "Prime" or housed in the warehouse, is it safe to assume it's coming directly from Ruipro? Is there a model # for the Gen 3 B?


----------



## Otto Pylot

sooner2k said:


> Is there a way to purchase directly from Ruipro or if i'm purchasing one on Amazon that's not "Prime" or housed in the warehouse, is it safe to assume it's coming directly from Ruipro? Is there a model # for the Gen 3 B?


You should be able to purchase directly from them but I've never had to do that because the cables were sent to me for testing purposes so I'm not sure how that process works. The product number for their 8k cables is: SNAOC21V101A_10 (10 is 10m). The Gen-3 versions will come with a green tag on the cable and box that indicates Gen-3 or Gen-3b. There isn't a separate product code for the updated versions. Amazon U.S. is the exclusive reseller of the Ruipro cables unless there is an A/V company that has a reseller license.


----------



## RonOhio

Deleted.


----------



## RonOhio

sooner2k said:


> Is there a way to purchase directly from Ruipro or if i'm purchasing one on Amazon that's not "Prime" or housed in the warehouse, is it safe to assume it's coming directly from Ruipro? Is there a model # for the Gen 3 B?


Per the seller on Amazon, RUIPRO-US, they are only shipping GEN3/B version from Amazon US. I just ordered one on 12/27 and it shipped today from China. Not sure when I will see the cable estimate is 1/11.

Amazon.com: Customer Questions & Answers


----------



## Otto Pylot

RonOhio said:


> Per the seller on Amazon, RUIPRO-US, they are only shipping GEN3/B version from Amazon US. I just ordered one on 12/27 and it shipped today from China. Not sure when I will see the cable estimate is 1/11.
> 
> Amazon.com: Customer Questions & Answers


Excellent. Let us know how the cable performs. I'd forgotten about RUIPRO-US on the Amazon site. That is the official Ruipro channel. My apologies to @sooner2k for not being clearer.


----------



## TheTruTru

Can I be confident in the RUIPRO cable working with a PS5? My setup would be PS5 > Denon 3700 > LG CX.


----------



## Otto Pylot

TheTruTru said:


> Can I be confident in the RUIPRO cable working with a PS5? My setup would be PS5 > Denon 3700 > LG CX.


Probably. But there are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work because connected devices, cable length, cable installation, etc are different for everyone.


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> Probably. But there are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work because connected devices, cable length, cable installation, etc are different for everyone.


What is your connection with ruipro? You sound like their spokesperson


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> What is your connection with ruipro? You sound like their spokesperson


I've been testing their cables, as have other forum members, at their request, for over a year now. I get to keep the cables they send me so that is my only "payment" from them. I do have a nice contact at Ruipro that I can ask specific technical questions of and if allowed, I can post their responses. I also test cables for Zeskit, the passive, certified UHS HDMI cables with the same sort of deal.


----------



## alebonau

Laserco in au is selling their 1.8m apparently certified ultra high speed for only $9.99aud which is only $7.75 us ! 









LASER


Shop with Laserco for your IT accessories and electronics needs




www.laserco.com.au







http://imgur.com/arUY1xb


to me the sticker on the consumer bought item looks wrong ?

thoughts ?


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> Laserco in au is selling their 1.8m apparently certified ultra high speed for only $9.99aud which is only $7.75 us !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LASER
> 
> 
> Shop with Laserco for your IT accessories and electronics needs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.laserco.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/arUY1xb
> 
> 
> to me the sticker on the consumer bought item looks wrong ?
> 
> thoughts ?


The QA label is questionable. It should look like this:









See the difference in the labels?


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> See the difference in the labels?


agree labelling on box and cable dont really match how it should look. what is concerning then is if incorrect or worse fake labelling is being used ! have asked what the QR code scans to with the hdmi org app


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> The QA label is questionable. It should look like this:


I scanned the QR code on the image of the box posted and the hdmi or app says sorry that its just a standard label and not one for authentication ! so in this case it all looks like non legit ! shows the lengths some companies are going to get around hdmi org requirements ! if this is the case here ! scary ! and not good ! if indeed the case !


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> I scanned the QR code on the image of the box posted and the hdmi or app says sorry that its just a standard label and not one for authentication ! so in this case it all looks like non legit ! shows the lengths some companies are going to get around hdmi org requirements ! if this is the case here ! scary ! and not good ! if indeed the case !


If it's any consolation, at least the QR label worked as designed. I went back and scanned some QR labels from Zeskit and my old PHS HDMI cables from BJC (Blue Jeans Cables) and they confirmed. My fear is that lots of folks will look for QR labels and not bother to scan them because that's inconvenient, and if issues develop they will lose faith in the certification process. That being said, certification is only for consumer confidence. It is not a guarantee that it will work with all setups/installations.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> agree labelling on box and cable dont really match how it should look. what is concerning then is if incorrect or worse fake labelling is being used ! have asked what the QR code scans to with the hdmi org app


The counterfeit issue was the primary reason for the QR label. And, as you see, it still works. However, the Chinese counterfeiters are getting better at their game, and even though they haven't quite figured out how to get around the laser label, they will still be able to sell cables to unsuspecting folks who just look at the label and don't bother to check. 

Those of us OCD folks here know better, but we are a very small fraction of the folks who purchase high end equipment, and just buy into whatever the brick and mortar says they absolutely need, or buy into the slick marketing and product claims of the online sellers.


----------



## tnaik4

Hello guys, is it safe to buy this cable and expect full hdmi 2.1 support , 4k 120hs 444 rgb?


----------



## Otto Pylot

tnaik4 said:


> Hello guys, is it safe to buy this cable and expect full hdmi 2.1 support , 4k 120hs 444 rgb?


That is the Zeskit, UHS HDMI cable that is ATC certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Amazon may still have some non-QR labeled cables in stock so make sure you receive the one with the QR label of authenticity, and scan the label when you get it.

The cables are a bit stiff so you need to pay close attention to the bend radius. No sharp, 90º bends because that can result in a loss of signal continuity and increases the possibility of undue strain on the HDMI ports, which is no bueno.

The cables are passive. The most reliable connection for the HDMI 2.1 options sets is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between.

Finally, there are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work as expected for any given setup so thoroughly test the cable before final installation.


----------



## tnaik4

Otto Pylot said:


> That is the Zeskit, UHS HDMI cable that is ATC certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Amazon may still have some non-QR labeled cables in stock so make sure you receive the one with the QR label of authenticity, and scan the label when you get it.
> 
> The cables are a bit stiff so you need to pay close attention to the bend radius. No sharp, 90º bends because that can result in a loss of signal continuity and increases the possibility of undue strain on the HDMI ports, which is no bueno.
> 
> The cables are passive. The most reliable connection for the HDMI 2.1 options sets is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between.
> 
> Finally, there are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work as expected for any given setup so thoroughly test the cable before final installation.


My issue is i an ordering from Lebanon so i have no option of return, and i m looking for a cable to work with the new LG Oled CX series.


----------



## alebonau

tnaik4 said:


> My issue is i an ordering from Lebanon so i have no option of return, and i m looking for a cable to work with the new LG Oled CX series.


dont amazon have any option to return ? they usually do you just pay for shipment


----------



## Otto Pylot

tnaik4 said:


> My issue is i an ordering from Lebanon so i have no option of return, and i m looking for a cable to work with the new LG Oled CX series.


Yeah, as @alebonau mentioned, if you purchase from Amazon they have a fairly good return policy. Again, there are no 100% guarantees.


----------



## tnaik4

alebonau said:


> dont amazon have any option to return ? they usually do you just pay for shipment


Yes they do but for the price of shipping i can order a new cable , return shipping from here is more expensive than when ordering, i guess ill take my chances since it seems nothing is guaranteed with hdmi 2.1 cables


----------



## Otto Pylot

tnaik4 said:


> Yes they do but for the price of shipping i can order a new cable , return shipping from here is more expensive than when ordering, i guess ill take my chances since it seems nothing is guaranteed with hdmi 2.1 cables


As a side note, using the HDMI version numbers is to be discouraged. If you are referring to certified cables for the HDMI 2.0 options sets, Premium High Speed HDMI is the correct term. For the certified HDMI 2.1 option sets, Ultra High Speed HDMI is the correct term.


----------



## fst96se

Hey all, I am needing a 40 to 50 foot HDMI cable for my current setup, but which may change in the near future. 

I am using an Xbox One S (soon to be replaced with a Series X), Denon x4300, and a Sony VW295ES 4k HDR projector. 

I’m needing a reliable cable that will run that length and support 4k 60hz HDR (I think). 
Can anyone help me out?


----------



## Otto Pylot

fst96se said:


> Hey all, I am needing a 40 to 50 foot HDMI cable for my current setup, but which may change in the near future.
> 
> I am using an Xbox One S (soon to be replaced with a Series X), Denon x4300, and a Sony VW295ES 4k HDR projector.
> 
> I’m needing a reliable cable that will run that length and support 4k 60hz HDR (I think).
> Can anyone help me out?


At 40'-50' there are no guarantees. If all you're concerned with pushing is 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0 option sets) then an active cable would be the recommendation. Hybrid fiber would probably be the best choice but they are expensive. If you are a gamer and plan in pushing the HDMI 2.1 option sets, a hybrid fiber is still the recommendation but there can be issues with hardware compatibility. Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 options) or Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b (HDMI 2.1 options) would be a good cable to look at. Again, no one can give you a 100% guarantee that any given cable will work as expected for all devices and setups. You could use a passive cable but at that length, the cable will be very stiff due to wire gauge which would reduce flexibility (bend radius) and place undue strain on the HDMI ports.

Cable installation is also very important. The ONLY way to future proof cabling is to install your cable in a conduit if you don't have easy access to your cabling, and the most reliable connection is source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between.

What ever cable you get, lay it out on the floor first and test it thoroughly prior to installation.


----------



## dontpokethebear3893

Anybody have recommendations on HDMI Extenders using Ethernet that are good for HDMI 2.1? My computer is second story in my office. UHD TV is in the living room downstairs. I'd like to run Ethernet through the walls so I don't have to move my computer. I also have zero faith in Nvidia/Steam streaming. I've always encountered both too much latency along with a bitstarved and artifacting image.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dontpokethebear3893 said:


> Anybody have recommendations on HDMI Extenders using Ethernet that are good for HDMI 2.1? My computer is second story in my office. UHD TV is in the living room downstairs. I'd like to run Ethernet through the walls so I don't have to move my computer. I also have zero faith in Nvidia/Steam streaming. I've always encountered both too much latency along with a bitstarved and artifacting image.


How long is your cable run?

If you are referring to HDBT, there are none on the market place that I know of that fully support the HDMI 2.1 option sets, yet. As far as the ethernet cable goes, it should be solid core, UTP, CAT-6 or 6a (non-CCS/CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet) cable. I use solid core CAT-6 to extend an ethernet connection terminating with punch down keystone jacks and it works perfectly for hard wiring my home theater systems. I do not use HDBT as I don't need to.

If you decide on using AOC cables, then the most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extender, etc in-between. Active cables require a power source so any "break" in the HDMI chain may cause issues. For in-wall, the use of a conduit is HIGHLY recommended as it make fishing your cable easier and much safer. It's also the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. AOC cables, if that's your choice, are slim, and depending on the build quality are fairly rugged. However, you don't want to pull on the connector ends when fishing your cable and you don't want any sharp, 90º bends.


----------



## foshizzle

Have there been instances where the ruipro cables work for 4k120 12 bit 444 HDR, but fail with VRR?


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> Have there been instances where the ruipro cables work for 4k120 12 bit 444 HDR, but fail with VRR?


The Ruipro cables have been tested in-house for VRR and passed, but the real test is home systems. I haven't read anything either way on consumer systems so that's a good question.


----------



## LocutusH

LG OLED 55CX:
Just as a heads up. If someone experiences signal loss, invalid signal, or flicker after turning on the TV, and using HDMI 2.1 at high bandwidth, try to disable the fast startup+ function in the TV menu (general settings).
Just got this tip from an LG service man who was here yesterday, fixing my audio problems on the TV. And ideed, there are even some youtube videos that mention this.
I am in 4K/120Hz/10bit/Gsync mode since then, and had not a single signal issue.


----------



## South Post

tnaik4 said:


> Hello guys, is it safe to buy this cable and expect full hdmi 2.1 support , 4k 120hs 444 rgb?


This one from Amazon is clearly fake. It is self-claimed to be an 8K cable, but we know that HDMI cable using copper wires will not meet HDMI 2.1 certification requirements if the length exceeds 10ft (3M), you need fiber cable for length beyond 3M and it still needs certification.

This is outrageous, the seller should know about this. It is well-known in the HDMI cable industry that no HDMI passive cable beyond 3meter can pass v2.1 certification.


----------



## tnaik4

South Post said:


> This one from Amazon is clearly fake. It is self-claimed to be an 8K cable, but we know that HDMI cable using copper wires will not meet HDMI 2.1 certification requirements if the length exceeds 10ft (3M), you need fiber cable for length beyond 3M and it still needs certification.
> 
> This is outrageous, the seller should know about this. It is well-known in the HDMI cable industry that no HDMI passive cable beyond 3meter can pass v2.1 certification.


Any recommendations of what i should i get that is not fake, its prefered if its from amazon cause i m buying from overseas.
Thank you


----------



## Otto Pylot

South Post said:


> This one from Amazon is clearly fake. It is self-claimed to be an 8K cable, but we know that HDMI cable using copper wires will not meet HDMI 2.1 certification requirements if the length exceeds 10ft (3M), you need fiber cable for length beyond 3M and it still needs certification.
> 
> This is outrageous, the seller should know about this. It is well-known in the HDMI cable industry that no HDMI passive cable beyond 3meter can pass v2.1 certification.


Not quite accurate. There are ATC certified, passive, UHS HDMI cables up to 5m (16'). The original cable length for passive UHS HDMI cables was 1m - 3m but that has been extended by HDMI LA to 5m. Zeskit makes a very good certified UHS HDMI cable at 5m. The downside is that the cables are a bit stiffer due to the wire gauge so bend radius becomes very important as well as the possibility for increased strain on the HDMI ports.

Hybrid fiber is what is recommended (glass fiber cores surrounded by solid copper wiring). The cables are active and so far are not certifiable by an ATC. However, that will be changing soon as there are ATC certified, active, UHS HDMI cables coming to market soon (with the QR label of authenticity). Keep in mind that certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setups. Certification is mostly for consumer confidence that the cable has at least been tested and validated by standardized testing protocols and instrumentation.

The QR labeling program has worked very well since its inception but it was just a matter of time before the counterfeiters intensified their efforts. They know that most folks will just look for the label and not bother to scan it and/or question the results. Most of us OCD folks here know that  but the majority of the buying public doesn't, and that's where the money is.

Keep in mind that Amazon is a reseller (like Monoprice) and they are highly dependent on the cable suppliers/mfrs to be honest in the presentation of their cables and product descriptions. Which means that the consumer needs to be that more diligent in doing their homework. Given the volume of products that Amazon and Monoprice sells, they just don't have the time/resources to properly validate the accuracy of their cable products.


----------



## hbafuzz

I recently ordered the 10 meters Ruipro Gen 3b cable. I have a C9 with an Asus TUF 3080 and the cable has been running flawlessly. No dropouts what so ever at 4k 120 RGB 12 bits using Gsync.

There does seem to be a tiny bit of a handshake issue which rarely happens in the case where my PC is already turned on and if I switch on oled afterwards. But it's easy to fix. Either unplug the hdmi connector from your gpu or toggle on/off the instance game response on the tv. But it doesn't happen always.

I've noticed a few other folks also mention that the compatibility of the Ruipro cables with the Asus cards has been good, maybe because they have an extra HDMI port or have tinkered with the reference PCB in some ways.

I did talk to Ruipro about the handshake issue and they told me they're going to bring out the Gen 3C cable in the next 3 weeks and that will provide better compatibility. So if you're on the fence wait for that.


----------



## bobof

hbafuzz said:


> I recently ordered the 10 meters Ruipro Gen 3b cable. I have a C9 with an Asus TUF 3080 and the cable has been running flawlessly. No dropouts what so ever at 4k 120 RGB 12 bits using Gsync.
> 
> There does seem to be a tiny bit of a handshake issue which rarely happens in the case where my PC is already turned on and if I switch on oled afterwards. But it's easy to fix. Either unplug the hdmi connector from your gpu or toggle on/off the instance game response on the tv. But it doesn't happen always.
> 
> I've noticed a few other folks also mention that the compatibility of the Ruipro cables with the Asus cards has been good, maybe because they have an extra HDMI port or have tinkered with the reference PCB in some ways.
> 
> I did talk to Ruipro about the handshake issue and they told me they're going to bring out the Gen 3C cable in the next 3 weeks and that will provide better compatibility. So if you're on the fence wait for that.


Looks like "running flawlessly" took on a whole new definition!


----------



## hbafuzz

bobof said:


> Looks like "running flawlessly" took on a whole new definition!


Just trying to help anyone with the same tv and nvidia card 🙂
If you'd gone through the amount of cables I have above 6m, you'd be surprised how many of them do infact work even with in the 2.0 spec.


----------



## bobof

hbafuzz said:


> Just trying to help anyone with the same tv and nvidia card 🙂
> If you'd gone through the amount of cables I have above 6m, you'd be surprised how many of them do infact work even with in the 2.0 spec.


Hehe, it was more a cry of exasperation at the state of the art in HDMI than a dig at you, sorry if it came across "flat".


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> Hehe, it was more a cry of exasperation at the state of the art in HDMI than a dig at you, sorry if it came across "flat".


I hate HDMI, but it's what we are stuck with so the never-ending trial and error search continues.

Yes, Ruipro will be releasing their "Gen-3c" cable in probably early Feb. It is supposed to have better compatibility with more devices so we'll see. For those of you who have long runs, and are in-wall, this is the prime reason for running conduit because, as you have all seen, swapping out/upgrading cables is going to be an on-going process for quite some time.

As a side note, Ruipro is also looking at ATC certification for their active hybrid fiber cable line probably around Q3 or Q4 of this year, but it is not a high priority. HDMI.org and HDMI LA is now allowing for ATC certification of active cables and there is at lest one, if not two more cable mfrs that are ready to announce/ship certified active cables. However, I've talked to two mfrs and the both have said that compatibility is going to be a big issue with certified active cables, much like it is now for the current line of active, hybrid fiber cables. And do keep in mind that certification is mostly for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested by a standardized testing procedure. It is not a guarantee that the cable will work for all systems and setups, regardless of marketing or product descriptions.


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> I hate HDMI, but it's what we are stuck with so the never-ending trial and error search continues.
> 
> Yes, Ruipro will be releasing their "Gen-3c" cable in probably early Feb. It is supposed to have better compatibility with more devices so we'll see. For those of you who have long runs, and are in-wall, this is the prime reason for running conduit because, as you have all seen, swapping out/upgrading cables is going to be an on-going process for quite some time.


It's pretty damning, isn't it, that in spite of all the marketing BS claims that exist around these cables they're on a 3rd revision to try and make it work. I wonder if they're replacing them for free where folk are the wrong side of the compatibility divide.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> It's pretty damning, isn't it, that in spite of all the marketing BS claims that exist around these cables they're on a 3rd revision to try and make it work. I wonder if they're replacing them for free where folk are the wrong side of the compatibility divide.


Ruipro does have very good customer support and a generous return policy. And they are very responsive to customer issues, hence the continual modifications to their cables (Gen-3, 3a, 3b, 3c). I'm sure other cable mfrs are trying to increase device compatibility but at least Ruipro is transparent about it. Ruipro does design and mfr their own cables and chipsets so they have better control instead of using "off-the-shelf" components that other cable mfrs use. That being said, some of the compatibility issues need to be laid at the feet of the game box and HDMI 2.1 chipset mfrs. Better QC/QA testing on their part and working more closely with the cable mfrs would have gone a long way to minimize some of the compatibility issues. That, at the fact that HDMI 2.1 in general was over hyped to the gamers (who it is really aimed at presently) is another part of the problem. Theory is one thing, but practicality in a real world setting is obviously very different.


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> As a side note, Ruipro is also looking at ATC certification for their active hybrid fiber cable line probably around Q3 or Q4 of this year, but it is not a high priority. HDMI.org and HDMI LA is now allowing for ATC certification of active cables and there is at lest one, if not two more cable mfrs that are ready to announce/ship certified active cables.


can you share who the cable mfrs are?


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> can you share who the cable mfrs are?


CableMatters announced they will have a certified active cable "soon". The other mfrs have not announced their products yet so I can't mention them. As mentioned, there are compatibility issues, just like there are now, so it will be interesting to see if there is any real world difference between what's available and when the cables will be released. Certification is expensive, so..... And certification doesn't guarantee anything other than the cables were tested by standardized procedures (instrumentation, tolerances, etc).


----------



## RuthlessNate

Hi all, been doing some research and found this thread. I didn't see any mention of these cables here.

I have a 65" C9 mounted above my mantle, and a built-in entertainment console next to the mantle which originally built for a CRT, so not useful for large modern TVs, but a good place to put devices. I decided I wanted to future proof and run HDMI 2.1 cables through the wall from the console, up to the attic, and back down to behind the TV. Prices on fiber HDMI 2.1 cables were pretty outlandish to me when I was looking back in June. I purchased four of these: AKKKGOO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 33ft, Support [email protected], [email protected], 48Gbps, Dynamic HDR, 3D, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4, Compatible with PC PS4 SetTop Box HDTV Projector (33ft/10m)

I should have probably waited until I had an HDMI 2.1 device to test them with. I got a hold of a PS5 yesterday and found that, with any one of these four cables, the PS5 could not recognize the TV properly. It would allow me to set it at [email protected] with no HDR, or [email protected] with HDR. 

I also had some of these lying around and tried it, only to get the same issues: Cable Matters 3-Pack 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K HDMI Cable with 8K 120Hz Video and HDR Support for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More - 3m, 9.8 Feet These aren't long enough to run through my wall, I just wanted to see if it would work and it did not.

The only cable I could use to get the full HDMI 2.1 features was the included cable with the PS5. Not ideal, as I don't really want the PS5 on my mantle and it ruins my "hide all the cables" aesthetic. 

So, don't buy Akkkgoo. I guess I'll keep an eye out for fiber cables in the future that will work and don't cost $180 apiece,


----------



## Otto Pylot

@RuthlessNate - the AKKKGOO is nothing more than a cheaply made Chinese cable that uses boiler plate product descriptions. The only thing that is has going for it is the length. If you want to use a passive, copper only cable then look for Zeskit Maya Cables. They are certified by an ATC (with the QR label) and come in lengths up to 5m (16'). They are stiff because of a thicker wire gauge due to the demands of the HDMI 2.1 option sets so there is a loss of flexibility (bend radius) which may result in strain on the HDMI port if you don't have enough cable for gentle bends (no sharp, 90º bends). Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setups. It's mostly for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified following standardized procedures so, in theory, that's the best you can do for a cable.

Fishing your cable thru a wall is ok if it's a straight connection, but if you're going up/down the inside of the wall a conduit is highly recommended because it is easier to control bend radius and makes for cable upgrading/replacement so much easier and safer. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof cable connections if you don't have easy access to your cabling.


----------



## RuthlessNate

Otto Pylot said:


> @RuthlessNate - the AKKKGOO is nothing more than a cheaply made Chinese cable that uses boiler plate product descriptions. The only thing that is has going for it is the length. If you want to use a passive, copper only cable then look for Zeskit Maya Cables. They are certified by an ATC (with the QR label) and come in lengths up to 5m (16'). They are stiff because of a thicker wire gauge due to the demands of the HDMI 2.1 option sets so there is a loss of flexibility (bend radius) which may result in strain on the HDMI port if you don't have enough cable for gentle bends (no sharp, 90º bends). Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setups. It's mostly for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified following standardized procedures so, in theory, that's the best you can do for a cable.
> 
> Fishing your cable thru a wall is ok if it's a straight connection, but if you're going up/down the inside of the wall a conduit is highly recommended because it is easier to control bend radius and makes for cable upgrading/replacement so much easier and safer. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof cable connections if you don't have easy access to your cabling.


Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the length I need is too long for passive cables, so I'll just keep an eye out for better cables in the future that are around the 10m/33ft mark. It's on me for trusting the cables. Lesson learned.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, the length I need is too long for passive cables, so I'll just keep an eye out for better cables in the future that are around the 10m/33ft mark. It's on me for trusting the cables. Lesson learned.


A lot of us recommend the Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 options) or the Ruipro 8k (HDMI 2.1 options). They are active cables with an excellent bend radius (you still need to be mindful of sharp bends though). Depending on the connected devices they do work very well for most folks. But again, as with any cable, certified or not, there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility so it's still a bit of trial and error. This is especially true if you are a gamer, which is really who HDMI 2.1
aimed at currently.


----------



## RuthlessNate

Otto Pylot said:


> A lot of us recommend the Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 options) or the Ruipro 8k (HDMI 2.1 options). They are active cables with an excellent bend radius (you still need to be mindful of sharp bends though). Depending on the connected devices they do work very well for most folks. But again, as with any cable, certified or not, there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility so it's still a bit of trial and error. This is especially true if you are a gamer, which is really who HDMI 2.1
> aimed at currently.


Yeah, I've got my eye on the 8K ones, I'm just not ready to spend $180 each for four cables. I'll keep an eye on prices and other options as the market expands. Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Yeah, I've got my eye on the 8K ones, I'm just not ready to spend $180 each for four cables. I'll keep an eye on prices and other options as the market expands. Thanks!


Just be careful on what you purchase and carefully read the product descriptions. They all sound perfect so stick with brands that you can research and get independent customer reviews (not Amazon reviews). I don't expect prices to drop for quite some time because the bulk of the buying public is not like us OCD folks here on AVS, so they will purchase whatever sounds good or what the local stores recommend (AudioQuest, Monster, etc).


----------



## gbynum

RuthlessNate said:


> Yeah, I've got my eye on the 8K ones, I'm just not ready to spend $180 each for four cables. I'll keep an eye on prices and other options as the market expands. Thanks!


Your Cable Matters not working either bothers me a little; they are reported by some to work, so I would have expected better results when you had multiple cables to try. How long are they? You ARE(?) running directly, not with breaks or an AVR in the path?

As for the price of the Ruipro, perhaps you can get one and try it in each of your applications?


----------



## RuthlessNate

gbynum said:


> Your Cable Matters not working either bothers me a little; they are reported by some to work, so I would have expected better results when you had multiple cables to try. How long are they? You ARE(?) running directly, not with breaks or an AVR in the path?
> 
> As for the price of the Ruipro, perhaps you can get one and try it in each of your applications?


Yes, I did direct connections from the PS5 to the C9 with all the cables I tried. The Cable Matters cables were 3m/9.8ft passive ones. 

For now, I only have the one HDMI 2.1 device (the PS5). So, as of right now, it's not a huge problem other than the PS5 isn't where I want it to be. Oddly, my XBox One X seems to think these Akkkgoo cables are 2.0a/b at least, as I can run [email protected] with HDR enabled. The PS5 seemed to think they were just 2.0. I used that exact cable I use for the XBox and could not get similar results on the PS5.

So long as I'm not immediately upgrading all my devices, it's not an immediate problem. Just an annoyance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Yes, I did direct connections from the PS5 to the C9 with all the cables I tried. The Cable Matters cables were 3m/9.8ft passive ones.
> 
> For now, I only have the one HDMI 2.1 device (the PS5). So, as of right now, it's not a huge problem other than the PS5 isn't where I want it to be. Oddly, my XBox One X seems to think these Akkkgoo cables are 2.0a/b at least, as I can run [email protected] with HDR enabled. The PS5 seemed to think they were just 2.0. I used that exact cable I use for the XBox and could not get similar results on the PS5.
> 
> So long as I'm not immediately upgrading all my devices, it's not an immediate problem. Just an annoyance.


The CableMatters link is for an HDMI cable that has not been certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. Even though certification is not a guarantee of compatibility, it does reflect that the cable has gone thru a standardized testing and certification program for the HDMI 2.1 option sets approved by HDMI.org and HDMI LA. If your cable run is under 5m (16') and you can afford to keep a little slack in your cable then I would look at the Zeskit Maya cables. They are passive, certified, UHS HDMI cables with the QR label of authenticity and from reports do seem to work quite well.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes, Ruipro will be releasing their "Gen-3c" cable in probably early Feb. It is supposed to have better compatibility with more devices so we'll see. For those of you who have long runs, and are in-wall, this is the prime reason for running conduit because, as you have all seen, swapping out/upgrading cables is going to be an on-going process for quite some time.


Thanks for sharing this. I ordered a 10m Gen3 cable and it has random intermittent cutouts that my shorter Monoprice one doesn't have. Ruipro customer service was great and replaced it with a Gen3b cable that also has cutouts (again, that the Monoprice cable doesn't have, but the Monoprice cable is too short for what I need). 

I'm hoping a Generation 3C cable fixes these issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I ordered a 10m Gen3 cable and it has random intermittent cutouts that my shorter Monoprice one doesn't have. Ruipro customer service was great and replaced it with a Gen3b cable that also has cutouts (again, that the Monoprice cable doesn't have, but the Monoprice cable is too short for what I need).
> 
> I'm hoping a Generation 3C cable fixes these issues.


How is your cable installed? 30' should be ok as far as length goes but there are other factors involved in a successful cable run besides the cable. What devices are you connecting?


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> How is your cable installed? 30' should be ok as far as length goes but there are other factors involved in a successful cable run besides the cable. What devices are you connecting?


I mistyped, it's actually 12m. I'm connecting a PC with a new 30 series GPU to the LC C9 directly via the HDMI cable. I did try the signal booster thing (the HDMI female to male adapter with the USB device) and it didn't help. I just have the HDMI cable running from my GPU right to the HDMI 1 port on the TV, and for audio I'm using eARC to a Samsung HW-Q90R soundbar.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> I mistyped, it's actually 12m. I'm connecting a PC with a new 30 series GPU to the LC C9 directly via the HDMI cable. I did try the signal booster thing (the HDMI female to male adapter with the USB device) and it didn't help. I just have the HDMI cable running from my GPU right to the HDMI 1 port on the TV, and for audio I'm using eARC to a Samsung HW-Q90R soundbar.


12m is not bad. By "signal booster" I assume you are referring to the voltage inserter? They do work in some cases but are not a guarantee. Ruipro ships them just in case they are needed. I never saw an advantage either way when I was testing the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables.

I forget but are you having video issues or audio issues? How are your cables installed? Which HDMI port on the C9 is dedicated to ARC/eARC?


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> 12m is not bad. By "signal booster" I assume you are referring to the voltage inserter? They do work in some cases but are not a guarantee. Ruipro ships them just in case they are needed. I never saw an advantage either way when I was testing the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables.
> 
> I forget but are you having video issues or audio issues? How are your cables installed? Which HDMI port on the C9 is dedicated to ARC/eARC?


Well I'm having both. I think there's a bug either in the latest Nvidia Driver or LG Firmware where audio will cut in and out when using eARC with the Windows 10 sound setting set to "Dolby Atmos for Home Theater". Other people on the LG C9 eARC Info thread have reported this issue. 

Then I'm having random video signal loss issues where the signal will be lost for around 1 second. I've had this issue with the Ruipro Gen 3 and Gen 3B cables, both 12m. This happens maybe 2 times per hour. 

Cables are installed like this:

PC w/30 series GPU --> HDMI cable --> Voltage inserter (which I just tried as a fix, no luck, so I'll remove it again) --> HDMI 1 port on TV

For eARC: HDMI Port 2 on TV --> HDMI cable w/ethernet --> Samsung HW-Q90R soundbar. TV and soundbar are working with eARC, but a bug seems to cause the dropouts specifically when using Dolby Atmos for Home Theater.


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## christofin

For the audio issue I mentioned (which I don't think is too relevant for this thread), it's happening with other HDMI cables so I don't think it's a cable issue, just a TV firmware issue most likely.

For the display signal cutouts, this only happens with the Ruipro fiber cables.


----------



## G-Rex

...


----------



## seall

Just received my order from Amazon. A 25m Ruipro Gen3b Cable. And it works perfectly! 4k120hz 10-bit HDR and VRR. No cutouts, nos glitches, everything is working perfectly!. I have a LG CX and a MSI Ventus RTX 3080.

Played for many hours already without any issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

seall said:


> Just received my order from Amazon. A 25m Ruipro Gen3b Cable. And it works perfectly! 4k120hz 10-bit HDR and VRR. No cutouts, nos glitches, everything is working perfectly!. I have a LG CX and a MSI Ventus RTX 3080.
> 
> Played for many hours already without any issues.


And that is what is so frustrating. There is no one cable that will work for everyone regardless of devices and/or setups. This is another example of the point that we try to drive home, and that is you need to have easy access to your cabling so you can easily and safely either upgrade your cabling when the time comes, and it will, or you can swap out cables until you find one that works. I still say that the device mfrs (tv's, consoles, etc) need to work more closely with the cable mfrs to work out any issues that may arise due to buggy HDMI chipsets, cable incompatibilities, etc.

Glad it works for you and thanks for the post.


----------



## foshizzle

How are you all verifying VRR works?


----------



## sooner2k

Well I have unfortunate results to share. I received my RUIPRO 15 meter cable Gen3B and tested it. 

Results:
Sony STR-DN1080 Receiver -> Sony XBR75X900H - No Singnal
Yamaha RX-A770 Reciver -> Sony XBR75X900H - Perfect sync and signal
AppleTV 4k -> Sony XBR75X900H - Perfect Sync and signal

Old Setup:
Sony STR-DN1080 -> HDBaseT converter -> Sony XBR75X900H - Signal, but limited to 18gbps

Testing:
I used the same input devices to test both receivers (AppleTV 4k & DirectTV box) and confirmed on the Yamaha that I could get the highest output allowed by the receiver. I tested every configuration of HDMI input on the Sony TV in combination with the Sony Receiver to ensure there wasn't a preferred/best input. I also ensured the HDMI was configured on the receiver for enhanced. Basically ran the combo of Sony receiver to Sony TV through every setting I could find and never got signal. 

From here i'm not sure if I need to start the return process with Amazon, or if there is someone I can reach out to at RUIPRO support to see about swapping out for the GenC cable that is in the works? Does anyone in the forum have a point of contact for RUIPRO support?


----------



## Otto Pylot

sooner2k said:


> Well I have unfortunate results to share. I received my RUIPRO 15 meter cable Gen3B and tested it.
> 
> Results:
> Sony STR-DN1080 Receiver -> Sony XBR75X900H - No Singnal
> Yamaha RX-A770 Reciver -> Sony XBR75X900H - Perfect sync and signal
> AppleTV 4k -> Sony XBR75X900H - Perfect Sync and signal
> 
> Old Setup:
> Sony STR-DN1080 -> HDBaseT converter -> Sony XBR75X900H - Signal, but limited to 18gbps
> 
> Testing:
> I used the same input devices to test both receivers (AppleTV 4k & DirectTV box) and confirmed on the Yamaha that I could get the highest output allowed by the receiver. I tested every configuration of HDMI input on the Sony TV in combination with the Sony Receiver to ensure there wasn't a preferred/best input. I also ensured the HDMI was configured on the receiver for enhanced. Basically ran the combo of Sony receiver to Sony TV through every setting I could find and never got signal.
> 
> From here i'm not sure if I need to start the return process with Amazon, or if there is someone I can reach out to at RUIPRO support to see about swapping out for the GenC cable that is in the works? Does anyone in the forum have a point of contact for RUIPRO support?


Ruipro Customer Support. Sounds like it's an issue with the Sony receiver if a direct connection from the ATV4k and the Yamaha receiver works fine. I have two different models of Yamaha receivers and they have had zero issues with BJC, Zeskit, or either Ruipro cable (4k and 8k). Cable distance doesn't appear to be an issue either with your setup and the Sony receiver removed. There is no 100% guarantee that any cable will work with any device or setup because there are just too many variables.


----------



## bnr32jason

I'm having a heck of a time finding something in the 15ft range. There's a few 15ft cables on Amazon with overall positive reviews, but we know how that goes. Some people are saying they don't work, others saying they do. I'm fine with paying more for a fiber optic cable if I need to, but I can't find anything in stock. Does anyone have any suggestions?

It will be connected from a single device (until I'm comfortable that all the HDMI 2.1 receivers have their issues worked out) which will either be a game console or my PC (all HDMI 2.1 capable) to the LG HU810P projector (which only supports 24gbps anyway. Knowing that it's not going to be maxing out the HDMI 2.1 spec, will the questionable 15ft cables from Amazon most likely work anyway?

Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bnr32jason said:


> I'm having a heck of a time finding something in the 15ft range. There's a few 15ft cables on Amazon with overall positive reviews, but we know how that goes. Some people are saying they don't work, others saying they do. I'm fine with paying more for a fiber optic cable if I need to, but I can't find anything in stock. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> It will be connected from a single device (until I'm comfortable that all the HDMI 2.1 receivers have their issues worked out) which will either be a game console or my PC (all HDMI 2.1 capable) to the LG HU810P projector (which only supports 24gbps anyway. Knowing that it's not going to be maxing out the HDMI 2.1 spec, will the questionable 15ft cables from Amazon most likely work anyway?
> 
> Thanks!


If you are looking for certified (with the QR label), passive, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables then the maximum length is 5m (16'), and currently Zeskit is really the only game in town, so far. The cables are stiff so you really need to be mindful of bend radius and strain on the HDMI ports so if you can give yourself some extra slack in your cable run the better your chances are for zero issues.

Hybrid fiber cables are active and at present, there aren't any certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables in the marketplace, yet. Traditionally, any active cable was not certifiable by HDMI.org and HDMI LA but that is going to change in the near future. Keep in mind that certification is mostly for consumer confidence, it is not a guarantee of compatibility regardless of slick marketing or product description.

What to do? 

Passive cables are always a bit better as far as reliability goes because it's just a cable, there are no electronic components in the connector ends to interface with the HDMI ports. But, if you want a certified cable for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, 16' is your maximum. If you want a certified cable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets, 25' is your maximum. 

Hybrid fiber cables, albeit more expensive than passive cables, work very well for the HDMI 2.0 option sets and most of the time for the HDMI 2.1 options sets so that would be the recommendation for active cables. Ruipro 4k for the HDMI 2.0 option sets or Ruipro 8k, Gen-3b(c) for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.

If in-wall, run your cabling regardless of type in a conduit, with a pull string. That is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc is the most reliable connection.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> If you want a certified cable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets, 25' is your maximum.


mono price sells their 30ft premium certified.... which is just short of my 10m/32 ft I need.... if i were upgrading now to hdmi 2.1 for 10m then active is the only choice really. and not certified for ultra high speed. hopefully changes in due course....


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> mono price sells their 30ft premium certified.... which is just short of my 10m/32 ft I need.... if i were upgrading now to hdmi 2.1 for 10m then active is the only choice really. and not certified for ultra high speed. hopefully changes in due course....


Yeah, I have seen Premium High Speed at 30' on Monoprice, but Monoprice is a reseller, they don't mfr their own cables, nor do they vet all of the products they offer so caveat emptor.


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, I have seen Premium High Speed at 30' on Monoprice, but Monoprice is a reseller, they don't mfr their own cables, nor do they vet all of the products they offer so caveat emptor.


yes but however a premium certified cable does exist a the 30 foot 9.2m that is fact and point I was making. and i have that particular cable and suggested it to many. I have had no issue on the mono price 30 foot 9.2m cable. have thrown everything at it from all sources i have possible from atv4k, to xboxone x to Panasonic player to oppo player all work seamlessly and have done for some years and pass all cable tests where devices have them - atv4k, xobxone x and panasonic or oppo player.

what id like to see now is certified cables in the ultra high speed length. i get that hdmi.org dont usually certify hybrid cables ... but that isnt particularly helpful of the consumer base. so hope they do indeed work things out to certify which of the hybrid actually do support hdmi 2.1 chip sets and feature sets and which dont and give the ones that do the label.

am sure the likes of ruipro would be very keen to get their fibre/hybrid cables certified. doesnt make sense am sure to them the cheaper passive ones are certified and more expensive fibre aren't.


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> yes but however a premium certified cable does exist a the 30 foot 9.2m that is fact and point I was making. and i have that particular cable and suggested it to many. I have had no issue on the mono price 30 foot 9.2m cable. have thrown everything at it from all sources i have possible from atv4k, to xboxone x to Panasonic player to oppo player all work seamlessly and have done for some years and pass all cable tests where devices have them - atv4k, xobxone x and panasonic or oppo player.
> 
> what id like to see now is certified cables in the ultra high speed length. i get that hdmi.org dont usually certify hybrid cables ... but that isnt particularly helpful of the consumer base. so hope they do indeed work things out to certify which of the hybrid actually do support hdmi 2.1 chip sets and feature sets and which dont and give the ones that do the label.
> 
> am sure the likes of ruipro would be very keen to get their fibre/hybrid cables certified. doesnt make sense am sure to them the cheaper passive ones are certified and more expensive fibre aren't.


I understand what you're saying and didn't mean to imply a 30' PHS HDMI doesn't exist, it's just that I've only heard about them and have never seen them, and yours is the first "report" that I've seen. 5' is 5' and that could make a difference for someone needing that extra length.

As far as certified hybrid fiber cables go, CableMatters is supposed to be offering soon a certified, hybrid fiber, UHS HDMI cable. They will be tested by an ATC and receive the QR label from HDMI LA. There are a couple of other mfrs who are attempting to do the same thing. From some of the other cable mfrs I've talked to, it is promising but compatibility is going to be an issue. Similar to what is happening now with the hybrid fiber cables in general.
Certification is mostly for consumer confidence anway. It's not a 100% guarantee that they cable will work with all devices and setups.... blah blah blah.

I've been currently testing the Zeskit cables (passive, certified UHS) and they work just fine, but at lengths <16'. The Ruipro 4k and 8k cables that I tested worked just as well.


----------



## lowrider007

Does the official certification for HDMI 2.1 cables take into account GPU compatibility @ 4k 120Hz HDR 4:4:4, or are they only certified for home cinema at this spec?


----------



## Otto Pylot

lowrider007 said:


> Does the official certification for HDMI 2.1 cables take into account GPU compatibility @ 4k 120Hz HDR 4:4:4, or are they only certified for home cinema at this spec?


Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI cables are certified for all of the HDMI 2.1 options sets given under the specification. GPU compatibility is not part of the specifications as there are slight differences in the chipsets used for GPU cards/display devices and how the specifications are implemented by the various mfrs. Certification is not a guarantee that a cable will work with all devices and setups. It is more for consumer confidence that the cable was tested and certified by a standardized testing/certification program designed by HDMI.org and licensed by HDMI LA.

At present, certification for cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets are limited to passive cables with a length no longer than 5m (16'). There will be certified active cables coming to market soon but compatibility and cable length are still be worked out. Certified cables for the UHS HDMI cables will come with QR labels of authenticity on on the packaging just like the PHS HDMI cables do now. However, the counterfeiters are getting smarter so you really need to scan the QR label to make sure.


----------



## RuthlessNate

Anybody tried these? Trying to see if there's reviews outside of Amazon. Just want to confirm that they work for 2.1 features. I know they're not certified, but there are no certified cables at the lengths I need, as far as I know.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B08CVVBWBH&linkCode=as2&tag=cmi0d-20&th=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Anybody tried these? Trying to see if there's reviews outside of Amazon. Just want to confirm that they work for 2.1 features. I know they're not certified, but there are no certified cables at the lengths I need, as far as I know.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B08CVVBWBH&linkCode=as2&tag=cmi0d-20&th=1


CableMatters makes good cables but these are active, copper-only cables only with an attached voltage inserter (which is interesting). They are supposed to be coming out with an ATC certified active copper only cable for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (product number 300047) but I think they are having compatibility issues with the certification process.

Zeskit offers an ATC certified, passive, copper-only cable for the HDMI 2.1 options sets up to 5m (16') that is working very well. Other than that, all you can do is try as there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility. The cables will probably be stiff so be very mindful of bend radius (no sharp, 90º bends) because that may place undue strain on the HDMI ports which is no bueno. Give yourself a little extra slack. And no wall plates, extenders, etc.


----------



## RuthlessNate

Otto Pylot said:


> CableMatters makes good cables but these are active, copper-only cables only with an attached voltage inserter (which is interesting). They are supposed to be coming out with an ATC certified active copper only cable for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (product number 300047) but I think they are having compatibility issues with the certification process.
> 
> Zeskit offers an ATC certified, passive, copper-only cable for the HDMI 2.1 options sets up to 5m (16') that is working very well. Other than that, all you can do is try as there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility. The cables will probably be stiff so be very mindful of bend radius (no sharp, 90º bends) because that may place undue strain on the HDMI ports which is no bueno. Give yourself a little extra slack. And no wall plates, extenders, etc.


Yeah, as I've stated before, I think 25' is probably the lowest length I can go. Guess I'll keep waiting to see what comes to market.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Yeah, as I've stated before, I think 25' is probably the lowest length I can go. Guess I'll keep waiting to see what comes to market.


You're gonna have a long wait unless you go with the 10m Ruirpo 8k, Gen-3c cable. Certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work 100% of the time with any device or installation. It's more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by an ATC for the HDMI option sets following standardized testing protocols. All you can do is try, and place close attention to the return policies. And if in-wall, run your cabling in a conduit for easy replacement and control of bend radius, etc. if you don't have easy access.


----------



## AVR Enthu

An update from testing cables on Marantz from TechnoDad


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> An update from testing cables on Marantz from TechnoDad
> View attachment 3083802


Interesting results. All cables are within the maximum 5m for certified cables so they should be passing, but it would be a bit more useful to keep the same length for the cables and if the source was the same (I assume it was). One also assumes that the Marantz is accurate and reliable. Calibrated and accurate bandwidth/parameter testing equipment is expensive so to have them in consumer receivers, and keep the cost competitive must be challenging. Zeskit cables is what I recommend for passive, certified cables and of course Ruipro 8k for active cables longer than 16'. It is good to see consumers starting to test with the newer receivers out there. The more independent information, the better but a lot more thorough consumer testing on a variety of devices is needed to really make it useful. It's definitely a start.


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## foshizzle

AVR Enthu said:


> An update from testing cables on Marantz from TechnoDad
> View attachment 3083802


what do the numbers mean


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## AVR Enthu

foshizzle said:


> what do the numbers mean


Number of times test was carried out, for consistency of results.


----------



## LiveEvil

RuthlessNate said:


> Anybody tried these? Trying to see if there's reviews outside of Amazon. Just want to confirm that they work for 2.1 features. I know they're not certified, but there are no certified cables at the lengths I need, as far as I know.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B08CVVBWBH&linkCode=as2&tag=cmi0d-20&th=1


Came here to report a successful test with this very cable. I'm using the 7.5mm in the following set-up:

EVGA 3090 Kingpin (4k, g sync, 12 bit, rgb full in NVCP, HDR in cp2077 & CoD CW)>Cablematters Active 48Ggps (7.5M, no powerport)>LG C9

and it has worked really well after approx 8 hours of gaming. I haven't experienced one lost connection or glitch yet. I'm almost speechless to be honest. This is the 4th cable I've tried, none less than 10ft, and the first to work as expected so far. We'll see, fingers crossed my search is finally over for a reliable cable over 20ft. One observation I have, is that the fit for the connector to port is the tightest of the cables I've tried, and I think that makes a difference. My ruipro passive 10ft for example, could pass 4k/120 but the connection was loose in the port. Breath on it and my signal would drop, plus it often required to be re-inserted when booting my pc.

YMMV as anyone whom has read this thread can attest. So don't blame me if you buy one and it doesn't work!


----------



## Otto Pylot

LiveEvil said:


> Came here to report a successful test with this very cable. I'm using the 7.5mm in the following set-up:
> 
> EVGA 3090 Kingpin (4k, g sync, 12 bit, rgb full in NVCP, HDR in cp2077 & CoD CW)>Cablematters Active 48Ggps (7.5M, no powerport)>LG C9
> 
> and it has worked really well after approx 8 hours of gaming. I haven't experienced one lost connection or glitch yet. I'm almost speechless to be honest. This is the 4th cable I've tried, none less than 10ft, and the first to work as expected so far. We'll see, fingers crossed my search is finally over for a reliable cable over 20ft. One observation I have, is that the fit for the connector to port is the tightest of the cables I've tried, and I think that makes a difference. My ruipro passive 10ft for example, could pass 4k/120 but the connection was loose in the port. Breath on it and my signal would drop, plus it often required to be re-inserted when booting my pc.
> 
> YMMV as anyone whom has read this thread can attest. So don't blame me if you buy one and it doesn't work!


Glad it worked for you. A little confused on the Ruipro "passive" cable. The only passive cable that Ruipro offers for the HDMI 2.1 options sets is the brand new certified, UHS HDMI cable. All other cables are active, hybrid fiber for either the HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 2.1 option sets. Sounds like you may have received a bad Ruipro cable because all of the ones that I have tested (quite a few) had very tight, snug fits in the HDMI ports.


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## Straykatt

I’m pressed for time, my father in law is visiting next weekend he’s a retired electrician and we’re going to install a wall outlet behind my Lg CX and also route some cables. I bought the Ruipro gen 3 33ft fiber optics cable and verified with their rep that it works good. But after testing it past couple of days I can only get it to work as it should half the time. I moved my stereo, modem and router. During my testing I found for some reason the router seems to affect the performance of the cord the most. When I swap out the $200 Ruipro for my $20 10 ft zeiket 2.1 it works perfect. Can anyone with a founders 3090 recommend a working 35 ft hdmi 2.1 cord I can route I n my walls?


----------



## RuthlessNate

LiveEvil said:


> Came here to report a successful test with this very cable. I'm using the 7.5mm in the following set-up:
> 
> EVGA 3090 Kingpin (4k, g sync, 12 bit, rgb full in NVCP, HDR in cp2077 & CoD CW)>Cablematters Active 48Ggps (7.5M, no powerport)>LG C9
> 
> and it has worked really well after approx 8 hours of gaming. I haven't experienced one lost connection or glitch yet. I'm almost speechless to be honest. This is the 4th cable I've tried, none less than 10ft, and the first to work as expected so far. We'll see, fingers crossed my search is finally over for a reliable cable over 20ft. One observation I have, is that the fit for the connector to port is the tightest of the cables I've tried, and I think that makes a difference. My ruipro passive 10ft for example, could pass 4k/120 but the connection was loose in the port. Breath on it and my signal would drop, plus it often required to be re-inserted when booting my pc.
> 
> YMMV as anyone whom has read this thread can attest. So don't blame me if you buy one and it doesn't work!


That's great to hear! The thought of spending $170 each on four cables was giving me pretty bad heartburn, but $40 each is much more palatable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I’m pressed for time, my father in law is visiting next weekend he’s a retired electrician and we’re going to install a wall outlet behind my Lg CX and also route some cables. I bought the Ruipro gen 3 33ft fiber optics cable and verified with their rep that it works good. But after testing it past couple of days I can only get it to work as it should half the time. I moved my stereo, modem and router. During my testing I found for some reason the router seems to affect the performance of the cord the most. When I swap out the $200 Ruipro for my $20 10 ft zeiket 2.1 it works perfect. Can anyone with a founders 3090 recommend a working 35 ft hdmi 2.1 cord I can route I n my walls?


Zeskit passive cables are certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets and at 10', they should work as expected. I'm assuming that the source during your testing was the 3090 GPU? Was the Ruipro cable in-wall when you tested it? Did you test the Ruipro cable prior to installing in-wall?

For in-wall installations, the use of a conduit, with a pull string, is highly recommended because it is safer and easier to install/swap out cables and control bend radius. A conduit for in-wall installations is the mantra around here because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc is the most reliable connection for active cables, which the hybrid fiber cables are. At 35', the recommendation is to use the Ruipro Gen-3b hybrid fiber cable. They will be releasing a Gen-3c cable by the end of the month which has better compatibility with more devices. They have tested their cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and the CX and found them to work just fine.

A router has no effect on a hybrid fiber cable so I'm a bit confused on that. It could be that either you have the first iteration of the Ruipro Gen-3 cable (hence the subsequent B and C versions) or the cable was damaged during the installation process, especially if you fished the cable thru by pulling on the connector end. 

There are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work with any device or installation. It may be that a voltage inserter may help. There have also been issues with the 3080/3090 GPUs and not playing well with acitive cables over a given distance. That's why Ruipro keeps modifying their cables for better compatibility.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> Zeskit passive cables are certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets and at 10', they should work as expected. I'm assuming that the source during your testing was the 3090 GPU? Was the Ruipro cable in-wall when you tested it? Did you test the Ruipro cable prior to installing in-wall?
> 
> For in-wall installations, the use of a conduit, with a pull string, is highly recommended because it is safer and easier to install/swap out cables and control bend radius. A conduit for in-wall installations is the mantra around here because that is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc is the most reliable connection for active cables, which the hybrid fiber cables are. At 35', the recommendation is to use the Ruipro Gen-3b hybrid fiber cable. They will be releasing a Gen-3c cable by the end of the month which has better compatibility with more devices. They have tested their cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and the CX and found them to work just fine.
> 
> A router has no effect on a hybrid fiber cable so I'm a bit confused on that. It could be that either you have the first iteration of the Ruipro Gen-3 cable (hence the subsequent B and C versions) or the cable was damaged during the installation process, especially if you fished the cable thru by pulling on the connector end.
> 
> There are no 100% guarantees that any cable will work with any device or installation. It may be that a voltage inserter may help. There have also been issues with the 3080/3090 GPUs and not playing well with acitive cables over a given distance. That's why Ruipro keeps modifying their cables for better compatibility.


I tested it last two days about 2 hours each day. I’m using the 3090 founders with 77” cx. I don’t know why but moving the router and modem to the opposite side of the room made the issues go away from experiencing them immediately. I’m not sure why that would be. The customer service rep emailed me saying they’re going to send me their gen 3c to test before I return the cable. Hopefully that will work. My testing is currently on the floor with the cable in a plastic conduit with the hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using with my sharc to avr. I plan on using just one cable once denon releases a new avr with same hdmi chipset as the 3090/cx. I’m going to install them in the wall once I know the 2.1 cable will work. Do you know of another 35 ft 2.1 hdmi cable that works in case the ruipro does not?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I tested it last two days about 2 hours each day. I’m using the 3090 founders with 77” cx. I don’t know why but moving the router and modem to the opposite side of the room made the issues go away from experiencing them immediately. I’m not sure why that would be. The customer service rep emailed me saying they’re going to send me their gen 3c to test before I return the cable. Hopefully that will work. My testing is currently on the floor with the cable in a plastic conduit with the hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using with my sharc to avr. I plan on using just one cable once denon releases a new avr with same hdmi chipset as the 3090/cx. I’m going to install them in the wall once I know the 2.1 cable will work. Do you know of another 35 ft 2.1 hdmi cable that works in case the ruipro does not?


Ruipro does have very good customer support so it's not surprising that they will send you the new 3/C cable to test before returning the other one. Again the router and modem should have nothing to do with the HDMI connection. Is your CX hard wired to the router or do you use WiFi?

Have you bypassed the Sharc and gone straight from the AVR to the CX with the Ruipro cable, or is that not possible? Can you explain your setup in a little more detail? The simpler you can keep your HDMI connections the better your chances are for a successful connection. This is especially true for HDMI 2.1 and beyond because of the higher video demands.

Even with the release of the new Denon receivers, there will be no way to tell if they are using the same HDMI chipset mfrs or if they will be implementing the same option sets the same way. With HDMI, there just aren't any guarantees for compatibility.

As far as another active hybrid fiber cable in lieu of the Ruipro you're just going to have to carefully shop around, do your research, and pay attention to the return policy more than the fancy marketing or product descriptions because all cable mfrs make their cables sound like they are the best in the world. We recommend Ruipro a lot because they seem to have the best track record for reliability, customer support, and the fact that they actually listen to and respond to customer issues by constantly working to optimize their cables for the various HDMI 2.1 devices hitting the marketplace.

There will be ATC certified, active hybrid fiber cables coming to the market soon but they too will have some compatibility issues similar to the hybrid fiber cables now according to the mfrs I've talked to. Certification will not guarantee compatibility but again, that's why you install in-wall cables in a conduit.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro does have very good customer support so it's not surprising that they will send you the new 3/C cable to test before returning the other one. Again the router and modem should have nothing to do with the HDMI connection. Is your CX hard wired to the router or do you use WiFi?
> 
> Have you bypassed the Sharc and gone straight from the AVR to the CX with the Ruipro cable, or is that not possible? Can you explain your setup in a little more detail? The simpler you can keep your HDMI connections the better your chances are for a successful connection. This is especially true for HDMI 2.1 and beyond because of the higher video demands.
> 
> Even with the release of the new Denon receivers, there will be no way to tell if they are using the same HDMI chipset mfrs or if they will be implementing the same option sets the same way. With HDMI, there just aren't any guarantees for compatibility.
> 
> As far as another active hybrid fiber cable in lieu of the Ruipro you're just going to have to carefully shop around, do your research, and pay attention to the return policy more than the fancy marketing or product descriptions because all cable mfrs make their cables sound like they are the best in the world. We recommend Ruipro a lot because they seem to have the best track record for reliability, customer support, and the fact that they actually listen to and respond to customer issues by constantly working to optimize their cables for the various HDMI 2.1 devices hitting the marketplace.
> 
> There will be ATC certified, active hybrid fiber cables coming to the market soon but they too will have some compatibility issues similar to the hybrid fiber cables now according to the mfrs I've talked to. Certification will not guarantee compatibility but again, that's why you install in-wall cables in a conduit.


I have the tv connected via wifi and a firestick in port 1 and the sharc/avr hdmi 2.0 in port 2. Then I have the ruipro from the back of my pc/3090 into port 3 of the CX. So wifi is connected on the firestick and the CX.
I’m not able to bypass the sharc because my receiver is not earc compatible and using the sharc makes it earc. I agree with Ruipro customer service they seem to want to improve their products and have been responsive attempting to fix rather than refund. 
Can you please provide a YouTube link or something regarding conduit in wall installation? I can’t seem to find anything on it and curious if it’s something we can do during the install.


----------



## christofin

Straykatt said:


> I tested it last two days about 2 hours each day. I’m using the 3090 founders with 77” cx. I don’t know why but moving the router and modem to the opposite side of the room made the issues go away from experiencing them immediately. I’m not sure why that would be. The customer service rep emailed me saying they’re going to send me their gen 3c to test before I return the cable. Hopefully that will work. My testing is currently on the floor with the cable in a plastic conduit with the hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using with my sharc to avr. I plan on using just one cable once denon releases a new avr with same hdmi chipset as the 3090/cx. I’m going to install them in the wall once I know the 2.1 cable will work. Do you know of another 35 ft 2.1 hdmi cable that works in case the ruipro does not?


I also have a 77" LG OLED (C9 for me) and 3090FE and the Ruipro 40ft cable works 99% of the time but every few gaming sessions I get random signal loss. I'm getting the Gen 3C cable mailed to me and Ruipro thinks that it'll fix this issue. I'll let you know how it works for me. 

I'm pretty happy with the cable in general and their customer service has been great. We're literally on the bleeding edge of this new tech so growing pains are to be expected.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I have the tv connected via wifi and a firestick in port 1 and the sharc/avr hdmi 2.0 in port 2. Then I have the ruipro from the back of my pc/3090 into port 3 of the CX. So wifi is connected on the firestick and the CX.
> I’m not able to bypass the sharc because my receiver is not earc compatible and using the sharc makes it earc. I agree with Ruipro customer service they seem to want to improve their products and have been responsive attempting to fix rather than refund.
> Can you please provide a YouTube link or something regarding conduit in wall installation? I can’t seem to find anything on it and curious if it’s something we can do during the install.


Most folks use something called a Smurf tube. It’s a flexible conduit that can be easily bent to accommodate studs, corners, etc. 1.5” - 2.0” is a good diameter and if you find some with a smooth interior as opposed to a ridged interior the better.
I have a C8 so I don’t know if the port assignment is the same but you need to make sure you are using the port designated for ARC/eARC. Depending on your other devices you may have to have CEC enabled as well which had its own set of issues. However, those issues are audio related and have no bearing on video. And it just be an incompatibility with the Sharc.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> We're literally on the bleeding edge of this new tech so growing pains are to be expected.


And those of us who are non-gamers really thank the gamers for being the HDMI 2.1 beta testers .


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> Most folks use something called a Smurf tube. It’s a flexible conduit that can be easily bent to accommodate studs, corners, etc. 1.5” - 2.0” is a good diameter and if you find some with a smooth interior as opposed to a ridged interior the better.
> I have a C8 so I don’t know if the port assignment is the same but you need to make sure you are using the port designated for ARC/eARC. Depending on your other devices you may have to have CEC enabled as well which had its own set of issues. However, those issues are audio related and have no bearing on video. And it just be an incompatibility with the Sharc.


Oh that’s what I use now for cable management, I wouldn’t have thought to funnel this through the walls though. I’m not seeing any on Amazon with the smooth inside and It bends open. Any you prefer?

Actually I found some thanks!


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## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> Oh that’s what I use now for cable management, I wouldn’t have thought to funnel this through the walls though. I’m not seeing any on Amazon with the smooth inside and It bends open. Any you prefer?
> 
> Actually I found some thanks!


Good. Let us know how it goes.


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## Straykatt

Will do.


----------



## nickmick

Did I miss it or is the actual report somwhere in this thread?

I'm building a new construction, and I need a ~80' HDMI 2.1 / 48Gbps run. Is RuiPro 8k the best option at the moment?

What for? Future proof mostly, but the immediate need is the run for a LG GX in the living room down into the basement where I want to put the PS5.

I don't have too long, builder says he wants to start insulating mid-Feb.

I plan on putting smurf tube but the issue is it can only be 1" due to it being a load-bearing wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nickmick said:


> Did I miss it or is the actual report somwhere in this thread?
> 
> I'm building a new construction, and I need a ~80' HDMI 2.1 / 48Gbps run. Is RuiPro 8k the best option at the moment?
> 
> What for? Future proof mostly, but the immediate need is the run for a LG GX in the living room down into the basement where I want to put the PS5.
> 
> I don't have too long, builder says he wants to start insulating mid-Feb.
> 
> I plan on putting smurf tube but the issue is it can only be 1" due to it being a load-bearing wall.


Actual report for what?

80' is going to be challenging, especially if you want to use eARC. A 1" conduit should be fine for just a single cable. I have quite a few of the Ruipro 8k cables laying around here and I just measured the connector ends. They are 3/4" wide at the widest point. That being said, you will need to keep any bends in the conduit to be as gentle as possible. To pull the cable you'll need to firmly attach a pull string to the body of the cable and then secure the connector end to prevent it from bending back on itself as it goes around or up a bend. DO NOT pull from the connector ends. No sharp, 90º bends. The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible but bend radius is still something to be aware of. I would also lay in another pull string for future use. It would also be wise to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it is going to meet your needs and expectations. A single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection. You can use pass through or brush plates for cable ingress/egress at the wall. Oh, and if you can find Smurf tubing or something similar that has a smooth interior (not ridged) it will make the cable pull smoother.

Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof, not the cable. Video standards will always outpace connection standards so the probability of upgrading your cable down the road is likely.

Currently, the only ATC certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets) with the QR label of authenticity are passive, copper only cables at maximum lengths of 5m (16'). There may be active, ATC certified hybrid fiber cables coming to market in the near future but I doubt seriously that they will be of the length that you need. Certification is mainly for customer confidence. It is not a guarantee that the cable will work 100% of the time for all devices, setups, and lengths.

Ruipro cables are very well made, thoroughly tested in-house for the current HDMI option sets and work for most setups. Their customer support is very responsive to questions and issues. They are constantly modifying their cables to be more compatible with the current HDMI 2.1 devices that are coming to market as there are issues with HDMI 2..1 in general and how the device mfrs implement the option sets. The current version of the Ruipro cable is the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3C, which should be released soon. I have another post elsewhere that lists the current Ruipro product line and a brief explanation of each cable's capabilities. There are other hybrid fiber cable mfrs but Ruipro seems to have the most favorable reviews, at least posted by users here on AVS.


----------



## LiveEvil

RuthlessNate said:


> That's great to hear! The thought of spending $170 each on four cables was giving me pretty bad heartburn, but $40 each is much more palatable.


You're not alone, and I only needed one; ending up saving around $100 from what I was prepared to spend. I hope you report back, so we can start to build data points. Mine has still worked flawlessly. In fact, I'm confident enough that I moved my PC from its temporary position (due to the prior shorter cable) to its permanent home.


----------



## Straykatt

I know it’s been said that the signal from fiber cables cannot be affected by interference but I ran the cable by itself for the past hour and it ran fine with no problems. I decided to remove it from the 1.25 inch plastic conduit on the floor it’s been in along with a hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using for earc and three speaker wire cables. Anyone know if speaker wire interfer with fiber signals? In my case it’s either the speaker wire or the other hdmi cable or the combination of both. I hope the gen c cable coming to me doesn’t experience this issue my plan is to run everything together in the wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I know it’s been said that the signal from fiber cables cannot be affected by interference but I ran the cable by itself for the past hour and it ran fine with no problems. I decided to remove it from the 1.25 inch plastic conduit on the floor it’s been in along with a hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using for earc and three speaker wire cables. Anyone know if speaker wire interfer with fiber signals? In my case it’s either the speaker wire or the other hdmi cable or the combination of both. I hope the gen c cable coming to me doesn’t experience this issue my plan is to run everything together in the wall.


Fiber by itself should be free of any interference but hybrid fiber cables do have 8 copper wires (used for ARC, HDCP, EDID and other low bandwidth requirements) that potentially could be subject to cross-talk interference. Ruipro and other hybrid fiber cable mfrs have taken great pains to minimize any interference but you never know with individual setups how it's all going to work together, so all you can do is what you are doing now and test thoroughly and see what works and what doesn't. I certainly wouldn't run any power cords in the same conduit but that's not what you're doing.


----------



## nickmick

Otto Pylot said:


> Actual report for what?


Well, in the HDMI 2.0b thread there was an actual PDF report that @ARROW-AV had created. Just wondering if something like that was going to be created for 2.1.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nickmick said:


> Well, in the HDMI 2.0b thread there was an actual PDF report that @ARROW-AV had created. Just wondering if something like that was going to be created for 2.1.


[/QUOTE]
That would be nice but keeping up with the cable offerings, product claims, devices, and cable installations got to be a bit much because ARROW-AV has other responsibilities (like running a business). What they did was, and still is, greatly appreciated by the community but I just don't think that they have the time and resources now to keep it up for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Besides, there are no guarantees that a specific cable is going to work for you so you need to keep checking here to see what other folks are using successfully with their particular setup and try. A lot of the basic information won't change with respect to installation so it comes down to length and connected devices.


----------



## EvanVanVan

I see Gen3 but not a 'B' or 'C' version stated on the RUIPRO page or amazon listing. Other than following this thread will there be anyway of knowing when 3C is released?

https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynamic-Flexible-Projector-Theatre/dp/B081SHJJ3C/ - I'm assuming this is Gen-3b?

Thank you


----------



## Otto Pylot

EvanVanVan said:


> I see Gen3 but not a 'B' or 'C' version stated on the RUIPRO page or amazon listing. Other than following this thread will there be anyway of knowing when 3C is released?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynamic-Flexible-Projector-Theatre/dp/B081SHJJ3C/ - I'm assuming this is Gen-3b?
> 
> Thank you


It should be in the next couple of weeks but Amazon is one, slow to stock new items and two, they will randomly ship whatever they pull out of stock until there is only the new items left. With Ruipro, they don't change their product codes. They just put a little green sticker on the cable and the box indicating which Gen it is. Gen-3/C has a bit better compatibility with more devices than Gen-3/B.


----------



## Chris Kempa

I just received Ruipro's "new" Gen3C 33ft cable. Still doesn't work when connecting my EVGA 3080FTW3 to my E9. As soon as I switch to 4k/120 the signal comes in for a minute and I get horrible flickering until the signal is lost. They should be paying me to test their products at this point its ridiculous. They've had my money for 2 months now and can't make a working cable. Also weirdly, going back to my old 2.0 cable causes all sorts of issues. My mulitple montors aren't detected, and toggling on HDR lowers the resolution to 1280x720 for some reason. Had to perform a system restore to get everything working right again.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Chris Kempa said:


> I just received Ruipro's "new" Gen3C 33ft cable. Still doesn't work when connecting my EVGA 3080FTW3 to my E9. As soon as I switch to 4k/120 the signal comes in for a minute and I get horrible flickering until the signal is lost. They should be paying me to test their products at this point its ridiculous. They've had my money for 2 months now and can't make a working cable. Also weirdly, going back to my old 2.0 cable causes all sorts of issues. My mulitple montors aren't detected, and toggling on HDR lowers the resolution to 1280x720 for some reason. Had to perform a system restore to get everything working right again.


You've posted the same thing in two threads so it might be easier if you keep to one. Makes it easier for others to follow and Search.

Which cable are you referring to for the HDMI 2.0 options? If the Ruipro 8k doesn't work as expected and the "HDMI 2.0" cable doesn't work then I'd suspect a setting or something else with the GPU. There have been reports of issues with some of the 3080/3090 GPUs. Ruipro does test the 3080/3090 GPUs with the C9/CX but I don't know about the E9.

How is your 33' cable run installed?


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> ........ or EVGA can figure out what's wrong and fix it, or at least work more closely with the cable mfrs to resolve the issue. It's too easy to blame the active cable mfrs if there is a design flaw or a mfr'ing issue in the cards. Because of the demands of the 3080/3090 cards, the cables probably need tighter specs for long distances and reliability, even with the use of a voltage inserter, so whichever one is at fault, or a little bit of both, they need to work together.


Ruipro claims they have resolved the issue with the EVGA 3090 GPUs and sent me yet another new cable (100ft). It's scheduled to arrive this coming week. I suspect this will be the GEN3-C mentioned recently in this thread. Will report back once I test it out. Their customer service has been top-notch.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> Ruipro claims they have resolved the issue with the EVGA 3090 GPUs and sent me yet another new cable (100ft). It's scheduled to arrive this coming week. I suspect this will be the GEN3-C mentioned recently in this thread. Will report back once I test it out. Their customer service has been top-notch.


Let's hope that the Gen-3C cable works. 100' is still long for any cable, so there are no 100% guarantees. I would lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test prior to installation. Is this an in-wall installation by any chance?


----------



## alebonau

received one of the new Ruipro Ultra High speed cables courtesy of EzyHD, 



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917302051_3a5593ad5b_h.jpg





https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917301946_9cde22a7ee_h.jpg



Scanning the QR code, can confirm they are legit, 



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50916613473_17c4bba36c_h.jpg



overall looks a well made cable, not going over the top with bling and such...just made to do the job. I like its got slim line plugs, and the leads are well protected, so not flimsy but also not overly stiff so can bend or resistant to bends, infact you can bend these to take shape and they hold that shape which is handy. 



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917301721_c80e62a561_h.jpg



not over the top priced, seeing this one, I might replumb some of the legacy cables ive got through my system. not that i need hdmi 2.1 but these are well priced decent cables and it is future proofing to point as wont need to worry about these for a while  

please do post any other cables folk come across... of the legit variety... ie scan and confirm as legit. as there are a lot of fake cables out there. good to know the legit ones...


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> received one of the new Ruipro Ultra High speed cables courtesy of EzyHD,
> 
> 
> 
> https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917302051_3a5593ad5b_h.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917301946_9cde22a7ee_h.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Scanning the QR code, can confirm they are legit,
> 
> 
> 
> https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50916613473_17c4bba36c_h.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> overall looks a well made cable, not going over the top with bling and such...just made to do the job. I like its got slim line plugs, and the leads are well protected, so not flimsy but also not overly stiff so can bend or resistant to bends, infact you can bend these to take shape and they hold that shape which is handy.
> 
> 
> 
> https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50917301721_c80e62a561_h.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> not over the top priced, seeing this one, I might replumb some of the legacy cables ive got through my system. not that i need hdmi 2.1 but these are well priced decent cables and it is future proofing to point as wont need to worry about these for a while
> 
> please do post any other cables folk come across... of the legit variety... ie scan and confirm as legit. as there are a lot of fake cables out there. good to know the legit ones...


I've been testing those UHD HDMI Ruipro cables on my OLED system upstairs and the Zeskit UHD HDMI cables on my downstairs LCD system for a few weeks now. Both work very well for the HDMI 2.0b option sets and I suspect that they will work equally well for the HDMI 2.1 option sets given the cable length and quality of build. I do not have source/sink HDMI 2.1 devices but I do know that the folks that do, who have used the Zeskit cables say they work just fine. The Ruipro cables are very new so I don't think there are any HDMI 2.1 users out there who have used them yet.

The QR labels on both brands scan correctly, and I have four of each cable so I've scanned multiple labels with no issues.

If a user's cable length is under 16', and they can install the cables being very mindful of bend radius and stress on the HDMI ports, then I would highly recommend either brand.


----------



## Ben Tan

Received the Gen3/C 10m Active fiber cables from Ruipro.
Can confirm it works on the RTX 3080 (Asus TUF OC) with the LG C9 @ 4k120 4:4:4. VRR can be enabled as well as HDR.

Legit world class customer service from Ruipro as well, I asked them before purchasing and they guaranteed me that they will send the Gen3/C cable as I'm ordering from overseas. They also mentioned there will be no more updates to the active fiber series, so Gen3/C is the last one apparently.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ben Tan said:


> Received the Gen3/C 10m Active fiber cables from Ruipro.
> Can confirm it works on the RTX 3080 (Asus TUF OC) with the LG C9 @ 4k120 4:4:4. VRR can be enabled as well as HDR.
> 
> Legit world class customer service from Ruipro as well, I asked them before purchasing and they guaranteed me that they will send the Gen3/C cable as I'm ordering from overseas. They also mentioned there will be no more updates to the active fiber series, so Gen3/C is the last one apparently.


Thanks for the post. Yep, there is not much more Ruipro can do as far as compatibility goes, which is not to say that compatibility issues still won't happen from time to time, especially after an HDMI device firmware upgrade. There shouldn't be but you know how HDMI goes..... They are concentrating their efforts now on their new certified UHS HDMI cable, which works very well now as it is so I'm not sure what more they have to do with that product.


----------



## samhayne

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro [...] I'm not sure what more they have to do with that product.


Give it a color that is not green.


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> Let's hope that the Gen-3C cable works. 100' is still long for any cable, so there are no 100% guarantees. I would lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test prior to installation. Is this an in-wall installation by any chance?


Yes, in-wall (although I've been testing with the cable just laid across the floor).


----------



## Brettcp

Brettcp said:


> Ruipro claims they have resolved the issue with the EVGA 3090 GPUs and sent me yet another new cable (100ft). It's scheduled to arrive this coming week. I suspect this will be the GEN3-C mentioned recently in this thread. Will report back once I test it out. Their customer service has been top-notch.


I received the 30m (100ft) Gen3-C cable from Ruipro today.. and IT WORKS! Kudos to Ruipro.. this is the 6th cable revision I've received, each one getting closer to success with my EVGA 3090 FTW3 and Sony X900H 85" TV. With previous revisions of the cable, I'd get no video, obvious troublesome handshaking to establish video at all, or flickering and disconnects if I was able to get video. I provided them with a good amount of detailed test results over the last couple of months for each cable revision and they kept a dialog open the entire time. They claim there was an issue specific to EVGA 30xx cards with the last revision (Gen 3B I believe it was).

With this new Gen3-C cable, everything came up exactly as expected - a quick handshake, no screen flickering, no disconnects. Exactly as you'd expect when using any HDMI cable. I've watched the TV for about 45 mins now without a single issue. The NVIDIA control panel immediately detected the Sony X900H TV and set it to 4k @ 120hz (32 bit color, RGB, 10 bpc, Full dynamic range), audio works great as well. I'm using Input #4 on the TV, set to Enhanced HDMI input mode. I even toggled HDR on without any issues at all. Will run it for a day or two before pulling it through the walls for a clean installation. Once my receiver (Yamaha RX-V6A) gets a firmware update to support HDMI 2.1, I'm hoping to route it through the receiver instead of directly into the TV. We'll see how that goes.

First class customer service from Ruipro. Hopefully they flush out their inventory of older revision cables at Amazon and start filling all orders with these new Gen3-C cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

samhayne said:


> Give it a color that is not green.


I've always had a preference for blue.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> I received the 30m (100ft) Gen3-C cable from Ruipro today.. and IT WORKS! Kudos to Ruipro.. this is the 6th cable revision I've received, each one getting closer to success with my EVGA 3090 FTW3 and Sony X900H 85" TV. With previous revisions of the cable, I'd get no video, obvious troublesome handshaking to establish video at all, or flickering and disconnects if I was able to get video. I provided them with a good amount of detailed test results over the last couple of months for each cable revision and they kept a dialog open the entire time. They claim there was an issue specific to EVGA 30xx cards with the last revision (Gen 3B I believe it was).
> 
> With this new Gen3-C cable, everything came up exactly as expected - a quick handshake, no screen flickering, no disconnects. Exactly as you'd expect when using any HDMI cable. I've watched the TV for about 45 mins now without a single issue. The NVIDIA control panel immediately detected the Sony X900H TV and set it to 4k @ 120hz (32 bit color, RGB, 10 bpc, Full dynamic range), audio works great as well. I'm using Input #4 on the TV, set to Enhanced HDMI input mode. I even toggled HDR on without any issues at all. Will run it for a day or two before pulling it through the walls for a clean installation. Once my receiver (Yamaha RX-V6A) gets a firmware update to support HDMI 2.1, I'm hoping to route it through the receiver instead of directly into the TV. We'll see how that goes.
> 
> First class customer service from Ruipro. Hopefully they flush out their inventory of older revision cables at Amazon and start filling all orders with these new Gen3-C cables.


Excellent. Most of us use the receiver as the hub so that's what I would suggest but it's entirely up to you. Have you installed it yet in-wall and will you be using a conduit?


----------



## Straykatt

I received my gen3 10 meter cable and I installed it through 12 feet 1.5” conduit in my wall into the attic then out of the conduit running 10 feet no conduit back into 4 feet conduit in the wall to my CX. It worked a full hour with no issues. And played doom eternal yesterday for over an hour with me experiencing the same issue I had with gen2 albeit it only lasted a few seconds and corrected itself and went away. This happen twice yesterday. If this only happens for a few seconds occasionally I’m good with it. Again I’m using 3090 FE with 10 meter gen3 2.1 with a 16 gauge speaker wire and a 10 meter hdmi 2.0 cable in a 1.5 inch flexible conduit from Home Depot. 

My plan was to use the gen2 cable for my earc hdmi 2.0 cable I’m using now. But it wouldn’t work which I though was strange. My avr isn’t earc compatible it only has arc. I have this device called “sharc” that I use to run the 2.0 cable from my avr to the sharc, then 2.0 cable from sharc to the earc port on the CX. For some reason the 2.1 gen2 cable wouldnt work in place of the 2.0 cable for earc only. It says on the box it’s compatible and I spoke to the sharc customer service and confirmed it should be working.


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. Most of us use the receiver as the hub so that's what I would suggest but it's entirely up to you. Have you installed it yet in-wall and will you be using a conduit?


My receiver doesn't support HDMI 2.1 yet (coming later this year in a firmware update) which is why I just routed it straight to the TV, then do ARC from the TV back to the receiver (via a Zeskit 10ft HDMI 2.1 cable). Works great.

I'll be running the Ruipro cable up the wall and through the attic, then back down another wall along side an existing cable run. I don't have conduit in place (wish I did.. someday when I build a house I certainly will) but every time I run a new cable, I run a nylon pull string along with it so it shouldn't be hard to do. I'm aware of the limitations of bending these fiber cables, have a couple shorter runs in other places already.

The whole purpose of this is to be able to utilize my RTX 3090 (in my home office) with my Sony X900H 85" TV in the living room. I'm not a huge gamer but when I do play, it'll be nice to run it on the big screen.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Brettcp said:


> My receiver doesn't support HDMI 2.1 yet (coming later this year in a firmware update) which is why I just routed it straight to the TV, then do ARC from the TV back to the receiver (via a Zeskit 10ft HDMI 2.1 cable). Works great.
> 
> I'll be running the Ruipro cable up the wall and through the attic, then back down another wall along side an existing cable run. I don't have conduit in place (wish I did.. someday when I build a house I certainly will) but every time I run a new cable, I run a nylon pull string along with it so it shouldn't be hard to do. I'm aware of the limitations of bending these fiber cables, have a couple shorter runs in other places already.
> 
> The whole purpose of this is to be able to utilize my RTX 3090 (in my home office) with my Sony X900H 85" TV in the living room. I'm not a huge gamer but when I do play, it'll be nice to run it on the big screen.


As long as you connect the pull string to the body of the cable, not the connector end, and secure the connector end from bending backwards when going around bends you should be ok. The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible (much more than the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables) but you still need to be aware of the bend radius. Use pass through or brush wall plates for wall ingress/egress of your cable because you can't use HDMI wall plates and such.

Neither of my receivers have the HDMI 2.1 chipsets but that's not a big deal for me as I am not a gamer. I do use the Ruipro UHS HDMI cables on the upstairs OLED HTS and the Zeskit UHD HDMI cables for the downstairs LCD HTS so I'm set as far as cabling goes when it comes time, if ever, to upgrade to HDMI 2.1 devices. All of my HDMI connected devices are using the UHS HDMI cables.


----------



## Ben Tan

Little update for those still on the fence over the Ruipro active fiber cables. I played Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order in 4k120 HDR VRR enabled for about 4 hours straight yesterday, not a single drop both video and audio. Everything was smooth sailing.

Also a short story blurb for those interested:

Previously I was using the Ugreen active fiber HDMI cable (limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth only of course). I kidd you guys not, 100% honesty here - *the Ugreen cable DIED a horrible death last week*. I've never witnessed a HDMI cable that just dies in the middle of passing through data as it should. I was playing SW Jedi, literally I was just moving the character business as usual, all of a sudden my screen flickered erratically. Audio was dropping in and out rapidly. The HDMI info on the receiver was flashing like a disco. It did this for about half a minute then everything just went blank. No signal message on the C9 appeared and the cable is literally, DEAD.

I was afraid that either the HDMI port on the GPU or receiver has went SOL, but turns out it's the cable. The connector ends of them was extremely hot to the touch, like hot enough that I cannot hold it at all. Actually had to use a cloth to even remove the cable from both the GPU and receiver. Ugreen of course doesn't honor warranty of this kind.


----------



## christofin

Ben Tan said:


> Previously I was using the Ugreen active fiber HDMI cable (limited to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth only of course). I kidd you guys not, 100% honesty here - *the Ugreen cable DIED a horrible death last week*. I've never witnessed a HDMI cable that just dies in the middle of passing through data as it should. I was playing SW Jedi, literally I was just moving the character business as usual, all of a sudden my screen flickered erratically. Audio was dropping in and out rapidly. The HDMI info on the receiver was flashing like a disco. It did this for about half a minute then everything just went blank. No signal message on the C9 appeared and the cable is literally, DEAD.


This is literally what happened to me with my Ruipro Gen 3C cable... same game too. I unboxed it, ran it, played Jedi Fallen Order without issue for about an hour, then it started flickering, artifacting, stuttering, then the cable completely died. No amount of power cycling the TV/PC/trying different ports/reseating cable/using voltage inserter would fix it. 

Swapped in my Ruipro Gen 3B cable and it was immediately fixed. 

A few days later, swapped back in my Ruipro Gen 3C cable, still completely dead, no signal.


----------



## Brettcp

Otto Pylot said:


> As long as you connect the pull string to the body of the cable, not the connector end, and secure the connector end from bending backwards when going around bends you should be ok. The hybrid fiber cables are very flexible (much more than the Zeskit UHS HDMI cables) but you still need to be aware of the bend radius. Use pass through or brush wall plates for wall ingress/egress of your cable because you can't use HDMI wall plates and such.


Thank you, that's a good tip about using the body of the cable vs the connector.


----------



## Ben Tan

christofin said:


> This is literally what happened to me with my Ruipro Gen 3C cable... same game too. I unboxed it, ran it, played Jedi Fallen Order without issue for about an hour, then it started flickering, artifacting, stuttering, then the cable completely died. No amount of power cycling the TV/PC/trying different ports/reseating cable/using voltage inserter would fix it.
> 
> Swapped in my Ruipro Gen 3B cable and it was immediately fixed.
> 
> A few days later, swapped back in my Ruipro Gen 3C cable, still completely dead, no signal.


Would Ruipro send you a replacement Gen3C cable?


----------



## christofin

Ben Tan said:


> Would Ruipro send you a replacement Gen3C cable?


They offered to, but after discussing it we decided to hold off since my Gen 3B cable is working most of the time. 

Then if things change or improve with the HDMI 2.1 chipset update (as listed in the C9 05.00.25 firmware changelog), we can decide at that point. 

And if they're going to keep iterating, I don't want to have them waste more materials and shipping costs.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> They offered to, but after discussing it we decided to hold off since my Gen 3B cable is working most of the time.
> 
> Then if things change or improve with the HDMI 2.1 chipset update (as listed in the C9 05.00.25 firmware changelog), we can decide at that point.
> 
> And if they're going to keep iterating, I don't want to have them waste more materials and shipping costs.


A little off topic but what did the C9 5.00.25 firmware update do? I have a C8 so it's irrelevant to me but I'm curious being as I'm an HDMI-kinda guy and an LG OLED owner.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> A little off topic but what did the C9 5.00.25 firmware update do? I have a C8 so it's irrelevant to me but I'm curious being as I'm an HDMI-kinda guy and an LG OLED owner.


Not sure, it's still on the engineering branch, but this is in the firmware changelog:


Firmware-Update of the HDMI2.1 HAWK2 chip (4959)


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Not sure, it's still on the engineering branch, but this is in the firmware changelog:
> 
> 
> Firmware-Update of the HDMI2.1 HAWK2 chip (4959)


Ah. I don't use the EM mode. Not a fan getting into the SM for that. So I take it it's not a final release but a beta "engineering" version? I know on the C8 that once you updated via EM, LG eventually disabled the ability to downgrade if the firmware version was buggy. Once updated in EM, you were stuck with whatever the version was.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Ah. I don't use the EM mode. Not a fan getting into the SM for that. So I take it it's not a final release but a beta "engineering" version? I know on the C8 that once you updated via EM, LG eventually disabled the ability to downgrade if the firmware version was buggy. Once updated in EM, you were stuck with whatever the version was.


I don't plan on upgrading until it's available on the website, but whatever changes they're making to the firmware in the engineering branch is 99% most likely coming to the live branch. Hopefully it doesn't take too long for them to release.


----------



## Ben Tan

christofin said:


> They offered to, but after discussing it we decided to hold off since my Gen 3B cable is working most of the time.
> 
> Then if things change or improve with the HDMI 2.1 chipset update (as listed in the C9 05.00.25 firmware changelog), we can decide at that point.
> 
> And if they're going to keep iterating, I don't want to have them waste more materials and shipping costs.


Hmmm they did mention to me that they're not planning for anymore reiteration for the current active cable though. 

Coincidence that SWJFO killed your cable too. Not trying to start conspiracy theories.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> I don't plan on upgrading until it's available on the website, but whatever changes they're making to the firmware in the engineering branch is 99% most likely coming to the live branch. Hopefully it doesn't take too long for them to release.


There were issues at one time that once you upgraded via EM that you couldn't upgrade to the final version via the normal channles (OTA or USB). Hopefully that isn't the case with the C9's. I never need an update bad enough to use EM and just prefer to wait until the official version is released and then let others install and see how it goes before I take the plunge .


----------



## djnb

Received my 12 meter RuiPro Gen3C today.. Glorious!!! Works perfectly with my MSI Trio 3080 and C9 at 4k/120/10bit/VRR. Just jaw dropping playing games at native 4k/120 to be honest. Makes my XSX/PS5 seem a bit old school already lol. Very happy.


----------



## Otto Pylot

djnb said:


> Received my 12 meter RuiPro Gen3C today.. Glorious!!! Works perfectly with my MSI Trio 3080 and C9 at 4k/120/10bit/VRR. Just jaw dropping playing games at native 4k/120 to be honest. Makes my XSX/PS5 seem a bit old school already lol. Very happy.


Excellent! Thanks for posting the connected devices as well, because quite often it's not necessarily the cable that's always at fault but the communication from the device to the cable, which is just a data pipe, nothing more. In-wall installation?


----------



## louwe

Any reliable cables (10m+) that could be bought in EU?


----------



## Otto Pylot

louwe said:


> Any reliable cables (10m+) that could be bought in EU?


"Reliability" is influenced by lots of factors so all you can do is try. I'd look for Ruipro 8k, Gen-3/C


----------



## Straykatt

louwe said:


> Any reliable cables (10m+) that could be bought in EU?


I recommend the gen c ruipro also. Their customer service has been great and the gen c has worked 95% of the time for me. I have the 10 meter cable. Or you can read other cables reviews and roll the dice.


----------



## djnb

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent! Thanks for posting the connected devices as well, because quite often it's not necessarily the cable that's always at fault but the communication from the device to the cable, which is just a data pipe, nothing more. In-wall installation?


Just using some ornamental conduit above the skirting, with the PC hidden in an adjacent room. Most of the run is hidden by furniture anyway so looks neat and easy to replace the cable in future if necessary.

So pleased with the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

djnb said:


> Just using some ornamental conduit above the skirting, with the PC hidden in an adjacent room. Most of the run is hidden by furniture anyway so looks neat and easy to replace the cable in future if necessary.
> 
> So pleased with the cable.


Sounds good. Glad the cable works well for you.


----------



## IceFortress

bmrowe said:


> Anyone have any familiarity with this fiber cable? Specs seem promising, but could just be marketing:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best hdmi 2.1 cable | 4k hdmi gaming cable | 8k hdmi 100ft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.fibercommand.com


I came across the same company. Cable sounds almost too good to be true. You happen to try it out?


----------



## Otto Pylot

IceFortress said:


> I came across the same company. Cable sounds almost too good to be true. You happen to try it out?


Marketing for sure. Cables like that have been around for awhile. They may work, for the time being, but if you have issues with one of the connectors, you have to replace the entire cable. If you need those connections then install a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit so you can run coax, speaker, solid core CAT-6 (non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated ethernet) cabling and hybrid fiber HDMI. All LV so no interference. The solid core CAT-6 can be used to extend an ethernet connection by terminating with punch down keystone jacks or HDMI terminating with HDBT.


----------



## Ben Tan

So reporting back after 2 weeks+ of usage with the Ruipro Gen 3/C active cables, it's been going very well. There has been zero drops in signals for both video and audio, cable connector doesn't heat up until it's uncomfortable hot to the touch, everything is normal (which is great) and basically the best commendation that can be given is - it works.


----------



## Tanquen

Ben Tan said:


> So reporting back after 2 weeks+ of usage with the Ruipro Gen 3/C active cables, it's been going very well. There has been zero drops in signals for both video and audio, cable connector doesn't heat up until it's uncomfortable hot to the touch, everything is normal (which is great) and basically the best commendation that can be given is - it works.


That's my biggest concern, that they work. I know it's a drag but it would be cool to list all the things you tried. Resolution refresh rate etc. In the hope it's not like 99.9% of the cables out there that are sold as HDMI 2.1 and or 48 GBPS that aren't and probably weren't even tested in any way. 

Cost and longevity would be the other two big concerns. I know you mentioned temperature and with all these random companies out there I just can't shake the feeling that many of the transceivers are the fiber optic cables are just going to die after a year or two.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Cost and longevity would be the other two big concerns. I know you mentioned temperature and with all these random companies out there I just can't shake the feeling that many of the transceivers are the fiber optic cables are just going to die after a year or two.


The chipsets failing after a period of time has always been a concern since active cables were first introduced. So yes, like any other electronic device, they can eventually fail. However, given the number of people who post complaints and issues on these boards I have seen very few that were attributed to chipset failure in the connector ends. Like other electronic devices, if you have good air flow around the HDMI ports that may help. I've seen more reports of folks using them successfully after a few years than not. 

That's why if you design your setup for easy access to your cabling, and you do have to replace them after a few years, the only hassle is the cost, and as video standards continue to become more demanding, I think replacing an active cable for that reason instead of chipset failure is probably higher.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> The chipsets failing after a period of time has always been a concern since active cables were first introduced. So yes, like any other electronic device, they can eventually fail. However, given the number of people who post complaints and issues on these boards I have seen very few that were attributed to chipset failure in the connector ends. Like other electronic devices, if you have good air flow around the HDMI ports that may help. I've seen more reports of folks using them successfully after a few years than not.
> 
> That's why if you design your setup for easy access to your cabling, and you do have to replace them after a few years, the only hassle is the cost, and as video standards continue to become more demanding, I think replacing an active cable for that reason instead of chipset failure is probably higher.


Yes but the chipsets failing after a period of time has always been a concern since active cables were first introduced. So yes, like any other electronic device, they can eventually fail. However, given the number of people who post complaints and issues on these boards I have seen very few that were attributed to chipset failure in the connector ends. Like other electronic devices, if you have good air flow around the HDMI ports that may help. I've seen more reports of folks using them successfully after a few years than not.

That's why if you design your setup for easy access to your cabling, and you do have to replace them after a few years, the only hassle is the cost, and as video standards continue to become more demanding, I think replacing an active cable for that reason instead of chipset failure is probably higher.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yes but the chipsets failing after a period of time has always been a concern since active cables were first introduced. So yes, like any other electronic device, they can eventually fail. However, given the number of people who post complaints and issues on these boards I have seen very few that were attributed to chipset failure in the connector ends. Like other electronic devices, if you have good air flow around the HDMI ports that may help. I've seen more reports of folks using them successfully after a few years than not.
> 
> That's why if you design your setup for easy access to your cabling, and you do have to replace them after a few years, the only hassle is the cost, and as video standards continue to become more demanding, I think replacing an active cable for that reason instead of chipset failure is probably higher.


Little confused about your reply which is basically my reply to you  .


----------



## Straykatt

Tanquen said:


> Yes but the chipsets failing after a period of time has always been a concern since active cables were first introduced. So yes, like any other electronic device, they can eventually fail. However, given the number of people who post complaints and issues on these boards I have seen very few that were attributed to chipset failure in the connector ends. Like other electronic devices, if you have good air flow around the HDMI ports that may help. I've seen more reports of folks using them successfully after a few years than not.
> 
> That's why if you design your setup for easy access to your cabling, and you do have to replace them after a few years, the only hassle is the cost, and as video standards continue to become more demanding, I think replacing an active cable for that reason instead of chipset failure is probably higher.


Get one with lifetime warranty.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> Get one with lifetime warranty.


That's why it's always best to go with a company that has an established record of positive customer support and that the enduser understands what is involved to prove that it was a failed connector before the warranty will be honored.
Read the fine print of the warranty. If you have easy access to your cables, that's not that big of a deal. If in-wall.........


----------



## Ratman

"lifetime warranty" typically covers defects in construction/workmanship, not changes/advances to "technology".
Yeah..... read the warranty _carefully_.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> "lifetime warranty" typically covers defects in construction/workmanship, not changes/advances to "technology".
> Yeah..... read the warranty _carefully_.


Long time no see. Hope all has been well with you.


----------



## Ratman

Thanks.
Been here every day.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Thanks.
> Been here every day.


Just been wonderin' cause it has been a long time no video.


----------



## Ben Tan

Tanquen said:


> That's my biggest concern, that they work. I know it's a drag but it would be cool to list all the things you tried. Resolution refresh rate etc. In the hope it's not like 99.9% of the cables out there that are sold as HDMI 2.1 and or 48 GBPS that aren't and probably weren't even tested in any way.
> 
> Cost and longevity would be the other two big concerns. I know you mentioned temperature and with all these random companies out there I just can't shake the feeling that many of the transceivers are the fiber optic cables are just going to die after a year or two.


I've already talked about what resolution and what scenarios I'm using the cable with in the previous page though... but let's save you a click then:


4k120 4:4:4 10 bit to LG C9 OLED
G-sync VRR enabled
HDR enabled when a game has proper HDR implementation

Yes I'm well aware that active cables can fail (my previous ugreen one did), but Ruipro has warranty for that and as far as I've experienced with them - their after sales support has been stellar.


----------



## Tanquen

Ben Tan said:


> I've already talked about what resolution and what scenarios I'm using the cable with in the previous page though... but let's save you a click then:
> 
> 
> 4k120 4:4:4 10 bit to LG C9 OLED
> G-sync VRR enabled
> HDR enabled when a game has proper HDR implementation
> 
> Yes I'm well aware that active cables can fail (my previous ugreen one did), but Ruipro has warranty for that and as far as I've experienced with them - their after sales support has been stellar.


I know I know, I'm not saying you didn't know I'm just saying that's a concern I have and I don't trust anybody to be around in two or three years let alone 5-10 years when it just dies and you've got to find something to replace it and rerun it.

When you get older you'll understand. This thread like most has gotten very convoluted but it would be good to mention what was used in the post that they've got a cable that works. Even though I don't think I did, I can't remember I have to go back and look and see what I did post that I had some cables that worked. And there's far too little of that in this thread.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I know I know, I'm not saying you didn't know I'm just saying that's a concern I have and I don't trust anybody to be around in two or three years let alone 5-10 years when it just dies and you've got to find something to replace it and rerun it.
> 
> When you get older you'll understand. This thread like most has gotten very convoluted but it would be good to mention what was used in the post that they've got a cable that works. Even though I don't think I did, I can't remember I have to go back and look and see what I did post that I had some cables that worked. And there's far too little of that in this thread.


Bottom line is that there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability (long term use). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so as long as you have a scheme in place that you can easily swap out your cabling, you're "future proofed". I know of folks who have been using the same active cable for years with no issues. Just purchase from a mfr who has a good reputation and good customer support and you should be fine.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Bottom line is that there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability (long term use). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so as long as you have a scheme in place that you can easily swap out your cabling, you're "future proofed". I know of folks who have been using the same active cable for years with no issues. Just purchase from a mfr who has a good reputation and good customer support and you should be fine.


Yeah but the bottom line is that there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability (long term use). Video technology will always outpace connection technology so as long as you have a scheme in place that you can easily swap out your cabling, you're "future proofed". I know of folks who have been using the same active cable for years with no issues. Just purchase from a mfr who has a good reputation and good customer support and you should be fine.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Uh, isn't that what I just said 🤷‍♂️?


----------



## Ben Tan

Tanquen said:


> I know I know, I'm not saying you didn't know I'm just saying that's a concern I have and I don't trust anybody to be around in two or three years let alone 5-10 years when it just dies and you've got to find something to replace it and rerun it.
> 
> When you get older you'll understand. This thread like most has gotten very convoluted but it would be good to mention what was used in the post that they've got a cable that works. Even though I don't think I did, I can't remember I have to go back and look and see what I did post that I had some cables that worked. And there's far too little of that in this thread.


It's just a cable dude, it's not securing a future for your children.

When or if it dies, find a solution for that. It's a man made product after all, what's the big deal?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ben Tan said:


> It's just a cable dude, it's not securing a future for your children.
> 
> When or if it dies, find a solution for that. It's a man made product after all, what's the big deal?


Hence a well thought out plan for easy access to your cabling when the time comes to replace.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Hence a well thought out plan for easy access to your cabling when the time comes to replace.


I think a well thought out plan for easy access to your cabling when the time comes to replace supersedes anything anybody else has to say and totally bears repeating.


----------



## Tanquen

Ben Tan said:


> It's just a cable dude, it's not securing a future for your children.
> 
> When or if it dies, find a solution for that. It's a man made product after all, what's the big deal?


Dude... I know... It's getting painful...


----------



## RuthlessNate

Just want to add another confirmation. I bought one of these and tested it with my PS5 and C9. The PS5 read the cable as being capable of [email protected] with HDR, same as the cable Sony provided with the system.

Cable Matters Active 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K Long HDMI Cable with HDR for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More - 25 ft / 7.5m



https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1



Now to remove the old cables, run some conduit, and make sure 25 feet is long enough before I replace the rest of the cables.


----------



## christofin

Hey just an update, for the second time a Ruipro Gen 3C cable **** the bed and stopped working entirely after an hour, for my LG C9 and RTX 3090 Founder's Edition. Once again going back to the Ruipro Gen 3B cable works, but still with occasional stutters and signal loss. I'm honestly getting pretty frustrated with Ruipro at this point because this is twice that their Gen 3C cable, that was supposed to resolve issues from the 3B cable, broke on me.

I probably have over 300 hours of use on the Gen 3B cable and like I said, it works almost flawlessly, but occasionally drops signal. When I move my PC closer to my TV and use my 6ft Monoprice cable, I don't get any signal loss. This seems to be a Ruipro issue.


----------



## Tanquen

RuthlessNate said:


> Just want to add another confirmation. I bought one of these and tested it with my PS5 and C9. The PS5 read the cable as being capable of [email protected] with HDR, same as the cable Sony provided with the system.
> 
> Cable Matters Active 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K Long HDMI Cable with HDR for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More - 25 ft / 7.5m
> 
> 
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Now to remove the old cables, run some conduit, and make sure 25 feet is long enough before I replace the rest of the cables.


I had looked at that one and the price is right but I was not sure about the bulky design with the node in the middle I don't room. Holding out for a fiber cable that is real 48Gbps with eARC and just works. Right now I’m just dragging a regular one across the home office when I want to game on the LG C9 TV.

These two do it all but mostly because they are short.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KWHHM9V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## christofin

RuthlessNate said:


> Just want to add another confirmation. I bought one of these and tested it with my PS5 and C9. The PS5 read the cable as being capable of [email protected] with HDR, same as the cable Sony provided with the system.
> 
> Cable Matters Active 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K Long HDMI Cable with HDR for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More - 25 ft / 7.5m
> 
> 
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Now to remove the old cables, run some conduit, and make sure 25 feet is long enough before I replace the rest of the cables.


If they had one of these but another 10 feet longer I would buy it instantly, that price is great too.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Hey just an update, for the second time a Ruipro Gen 3C cable **** the bed and stopped working entirely after an hour, for my LG C9 and RTX 3090 Founder's Edition. Once again going back to the Ruipro Gen 3B cable works, but still with occasional stutters and signal loss. I'm honestly getting pretty frustrated with Ruipro at this point because this is twice that their Gen 3C cable, that was supposed to resolve issues from the 3B cable, broke on me.
> 
> I probably have over 300 hours of use on the Gen 3B cable and like I said, it works almost flawlessly, but occasionally drops signal. When I move my PC closer to my TV and use my 6ft Monoprice cable, I don't get any signal loss. This seems to be a Ruipro issue.


That is unfortunate because the Gen-3/C cable does work well for most folks, but as we've said, there are no guarantees. Even with hybrid fiber cables, distance can be an issue. Have you tried the voltage inserter at the source or sink end? It could also be and issue with the HDMI ports at either the source or the sink (inconsistent output current).

Cable Matters, the link provided above, does make decent cables but I would look for one that doesn't have all that unnecessary add-ons. The product description does hit all the buzz words so all you can do is try,


----------



## RuthlessNate

Tanquen said:


> I had looked at that one and the price is right but I was not sure about the bulky design with the node in the middle I don't room. Holding out for a fiber cable that is real 48Gbps with eARC and just works. Right now I’m just dragging a regular one across the home office when I want to game on the LG C9 TV.
> 
> These two do it all but mostly because they are short.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S1BNM7K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08KWHHM9V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1


So yeah, I'm a little concerned about getting four nodes to fit in my conduit. It's not _huge_ compared to the rest of the cable, but I am a little concerned about getting four of them into a 1.5" conduit. I think it will work, but I'm not 100% sure.



christofin said:


> If they had one of these but another 10 feet longer I would buy it instantly, that price is great too.


Yeah, length is my main concern. The "2.1" cables I bought that turned out to be either 1.4 or 2.0 (each one was different), were 10m/33ft. I have roughly about 16ft of wall, attic, and wall to run the cable up, over, and down. I think these will work, but that's why I only bought one at first.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> So yeah, I'm a little concerned about getting four nodes to fit in my conduit. It's not _huge_ compared to the rest of the cable, but I am a little concerned about getting four of them into a 1.5" conduit. I think it will work, but I'm not 100% sure.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, length is my main concern. The "2.1" cables I bought that turned out to be either 1.4 or 2.0 (each one was different), were 10m/33ft. I have roughly about 16ft of wall, attic, and wall to run the cable up, over, and down. I think these will work, but that's why I only bought one at first.


Out of the two cables linked above, the Zeskit Maya cables would be the cable of choice. Monster cables are overpriced and over rated for what you get. The Zeskit Maya cables are ATC certified if that matters to you. I use the Zeskit cables on one of my systems and they are rock solid for what I am currently pushing (4k HDR). At your length though, the only real choice would be a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3/C for example) and not that cute little Cable Matters cable.

What ever you get, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. Pull your cable thru the conduit by the body of the cable, not the connector ends, but do secure the connector ends from bending back on itself when going around a bend or corner, and be mindful of bend radius.


----------



## Tanquen

RuthlessNate said:


> So yeah, I'm a little concerned about getting four nodes to fit in my conduit. It's not _huge_ compared to the rest of the cable, but I am a little concerned about getting four of them into a 1.5" conduit. I think it will work, but I'm not 100% sure.


Yeah, I've got too much other stuff and node just seems to be asking for issues with other cables in tight space. A 1.5" conduit don't sound like enough for 4 cables with a node in the middle. May lock up if they all line up just so. I'm tired of waiting for the right cable but wait I must.


----------



## RuthlessNate

Tanquen said:


> Yeah, I've got too much other stuff and node just seems to be asking for issues with other cables in tight space. A 1.5" conduit don't sound like enough for 4 cables with a node in the middle. May lock up if they all line up just so. I'm tired of waiting for the right cable but wait I must.


Yeah, I'm kind of rethinking it. I took some measurements. The node is roughly 0.8" wide, 0.5" tall, and 3" long. It's split loom tubing, so there would be some room to stretch. However, I may just return it and go with a 2.5 inch, even though it costs twice as much as the 1.5 inch. In the future, I may want to upgrade from my soundbar to a proper receiver and it would be nice to have some more space to run speaker wire through as well.



Otto Pylot said:


> Out of the two cables linked above, the Zeskit Maya cables would be the cable of choice. Monster cables are overpriced and over rated for what you get. The Zeskit Maya cables are ATC certified if that matters to you. I use the Zeskit cables on one of my systems and they are rock solid for what I am currently pushing (4k HDR). At your length though, the only real choice would be a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro 8k, Gen-3/C for example) and not that cute little Cable Matters cable.
> 
> What ever you get, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. Pull your cable thru the conduit by the body of the cable, not the connector ends, but do secure the connector ends from bending back on itself when going around a bend or corner, and be mindful of bend radius.


The Zeskit ones aren't long enough. It's ~16ft from one wall plate, up the wall to the attic, over to the other stud, and down to the other wall plate. So a 16ft cable wouldn't have enough slack to reach my TV/devices from the wall plate.

I've already tested the Cable Matters hybrid and it works. Frankly, I don't agree that the Ruipro cables are "the only real choice." I know you're trying to give some well-meaning advice, but I'm not about to spend $150 each on four cables when I can get something that works for $40 apiece. Maybe they're superior (despite all the people having to send the Ruipro cables back due to issues/versioning), but I'm just NOT going to spend $600 if another option for $120 will work.

Sorry if I'm overreacting, but that post just came off as very patronizing to me.


----------



## Otto Pylot

RuthlessNate said:


> Yeah, I'm kind of rethinking it. I took some measurements. The node is roughly 0.8" wide, 0.5" tall, and 3" long. It's split loom tubing, so there would be some room to stretch. However, I may just return it and go with a 2.5 inch, even though it costs twice as much as the 1.5 inch. In the future, I may want to upgrade from my soundbar to a proper receiver and it would be nice to have some more space to run speaker wire through as well.
> 
> 
> 
> The Zeskit ones aren't long enough. It's ~16ft from one wall plate, up the wall to the attic, over to the other stud, and down to the other wall plate. So a 16ft cable wouldn't have enough slack to reach my TV/devices from the wall plate.
> 
> I've already tested the Cable Matters hybrid and it works. Frankly, I don't agree that the Ruipro cables are "the only real choice." I know you're trying to give some well-meaning advice, but I'm not about to spend $150 each on four cables when I can get something that works for $40 apiece. Maybe they're superior (despite all the people having to send the Ruipro cables back due to issues/versioning), but I'm just NOT going to spend $600 if another option for $120 will work.


The Ruipro cables aren't the only real choice but they are mentioned a lot, by me and others, because out of all of the hybrid fiber cables that people post about, Ruipro's always seem to be at the top of the list for customer satisfaction in performance and support, albeit a bit expensive.

The bottom line is if you find a cable that meets your expectations/needs, and is reliable, then that's the cable for you.


----------



## Tanquen

RuthlessNate said:


> Yeah, I'm kind of rethinking it. I took some measurements. The node is roughly 0.8" wide, 0.5" tall, and 3" long. It's split loom tubing, so there would be some room to stretch. However, I may just return it and go with a 2.5 inch, even though it costs twice as much as the 1.5 inch. In the future, I may want to upgrade from my soundbar to a proper receiver and it would be nice to have some more space to run speaker wire through as well.
> 
> The Zeskit ones aren't long enough. It's ~16ft from one wall plate, up the wall to the attic, over to the other stud, and down to the other wall plate. So a 16ft cable wouldn't have enough slack to reach my TV/devices from the wall plate.
> 
> I've already tested the Cable Matters hybrid and it works. Frankly, I don't agree that the Ruipro cables are "the only real choice." I know you're trying to give some well-meaning advice, but I'm not about to spend $150 each on four cables when I can get something that works for $40 apiece. Maybe they're superior (despite all the people having to send the Ruipro cables back due to issues/versioning), but I'm just NOT going to spend $600 if another option for $120 will work.
> 
> Sorry if I'm overreacting, but that post just came off as very patronizing to me.


I'd go with the 2.5 inch for sure. Running cables is a pain.

Otto Pylot - I think is trying to be helpful but I disagree with some of what he has said and how he has said it. There should be a HDMI 2.1 cable that just works. Yes, nothing is perfect and yes nothing lasts forever and yes there will be certified cables that don't work and yes try the cables before you run them and yes use conduit... But not everyone can run conduit and there will be certified fiber cables (apparently but it's a secret don't tell) and I don’t care if it is certified or not just if it works and the manufacturer not a fly by night outfit with no support. Right now all the cables seem to be short enough to work and they did nothing extra from true 48Gbps hdmi cables. Same cables with nonsense 8k logos. So I wait.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I'd go with the 2.5 inch for sure. Running cables is a pain.
> 
> Otto Pylot - I think is trying to be helpful but I disagree with some of what he has said and how he has said it. There should be a HDMI 2.1 cable that just works. Yes, nothing is perfect and yes nothing lasts forever and yes there will be certified cables that don't work and yes try the cables before you run them and yes use conduit... But not everyone can run conduit and there will be certified fiber cables (apparently but it's a secret don't tell) and I don’t care if it is certified or not just if it works and the manufacturer not a fly by night outfit with no support. Right now all the cables seem to be short enough to work and they did nothing extra from true 48Gbps hdmi cables. Same cables with nonsense 8k logos. So I wait.


Cable Matters announced that they will have a certified active cable in conjunction with Silicon Line GmBH and Granite River Labs. Cable length has yet to be confirmed, at least as far as I can find. I agree, there should be an HDMI cable that just works with the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and some of the newer passive cables from Ruipro and Zeskit do in fact work well. Unfortunately the design of active cables is a bit more challenging hence the ongoing trial and error to find one that works. Certification is mainly for consumer confidence about how the cable was tested but, as I have said, doesn't guarantee compatibility.

What a "true" 48Gbps cable actually is is up for debate, and I agree about the 8k logo but that's just marketing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Tanquen Just a little follow up a bit on your cable question, the design structure of cables is very similar between the two and yes, there are some "HDMI 2.0" cables that can pass the HDMI 2.1 option sets. But that doesn't mean that the two cables are the same, nor does it mean that cables designed for HDMI 2.0 can be operated reliably for HDMI 2.1 options.

The performance requirements are very different. The design accuracy requirements for basic impedance are 50% lower for HDMI 2.0 than they are for HDMI 2.1. For differential insertion loss, the standard for HDMI 2.1 is 18 times higher than the standard is for HDMI 2.0 and in order to meet these requirements, "HDMI 2.1" cables need better materials, more advanced processing technology and better cable design. The differences are difficult to discern based on appearance alone.


----------



## Ellebob

HDMI 2.1 is technically a doubling of bandwidth over HDMI 2.0 and with passive cables that will reduce maximum cable length by half. I know there are people doing the math and saying that to go from 18gbs to 48gbs that is more than double. However it is how they are doing it. I am going to keep this simple.

In an HDMI 2.0 and below cable there are three of the wires carrying most of the bandwidth, each wire carries 6gbs of data for a total of 18gbs. With HDMI 2.1 they are using 4 of the wires for the data. If they kept that each wire at 6gbs per wire it would be 24gbs total and it would be no problem for current cables. However, they doubled it to12gbs per wire so it can now handle 48gbs. Impedance and capacitance are the big problems when you double the data rate and that is why longer passive cables will not work.

Active and optical ore the only solutions but once you add electronics as part of the cable it is more susceptible to problems. That is why if your cable is not easy to change then conduit is recommended and in general just good practice anyways. If you can change your cable without a lot of hassle conduit is not needed. If you are running a cable without conduit and are going to "bury it" where changing it later would be very difficult or costly I'd use one that is made up of regular fiber optic wires that can be terminated and use an HDMI extender. Fiber optic extenders are very costly currently but I predict they will come down in price in the future.

Cleerline technologies (clrtec), Bullet Train (AV Pro), Metra Home theater and probably many others have fiber optic cables that you can cut off the HDMI connector and use a standard fiber optic connector and then use an HDMI extender with it. So if you can't run conduit and can't change your cable without too much difficulty I would get a cable that won't be totally useless if it gives a problem in the future.


----------



## Otto Pylot

^^^^ I mostly agree with that. I would have to do some more research into the viability of using a pure optical cable to see how well it handles the "communication" aspect of HDMI (EDID, ARC, HDCP) though. It should, but I just haven't dug into that yet.


----------



## Ellebob

I haven't had any applications that needed the 48gbs at longer lengths yet. Fiber extenders are expensive but can go extremely long distances (over a mile) for 18gbs. These companies are touting these features with their fiber optic HDMI cables and I know they all have 48gbs extenders coming in the future. Current 18gb extenders are very pricey $1500+.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> I haven't had any applications that needed the 48gbs at longer lengths yet. Fiber extenders are expensive but can go extremely long distances (over a mile) for 18gbs. These companies are touting these features with their fiber optic HDMI cables and I know they all have 48gbs extenders coming in the future. Current 18gb extenders are very pricey $1500+.


Yep. There are no applications that require 48Gbps (maybe up 40Gbps), source material that requires it, or 12-bit panels that are affordable and can take full advantage of it so yeah, unless you're a gamer, HDMI 2.1 is really meaningless at this point in time. Consumers want the capability now, and are not willing to wait for affordable fiber extenders, so hybrid fiber cables are what will be filling the void for a very long time.


----------



## elmoe

Hi all,

After reading recommendations here a while back I purchased a RuiPro 8k fiber HDMI cable for an in-wall run of some length between my AVR and TV. At the time 3.0b was the latest and that is what I was sent. Shortly after I see that 3.0c is out. 

Should I be concerned about not having revision c?

I ask because I am finalizing now and if I need to repull something I want to do it before we wrap up. For what it's worth, I tested the 3.0b cable and it seemed to work fine for basic 4k HDR 60fps playback. Unfortunately I don't have anything to test 120fps with right now.

I will leave a pull string in of course but easier to swap now if that would be wise.

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Otto Pylot

elmoe said:


> Hi all,
> 
> After reading recommendations here a while back I purchased a RuiPro 8k fiber HDMI cable for an in-wall run of some length between my AVR and TV. At the time 3.0b was the latest and that is what I was sent. Shortly after I see that 3.0c is out.
> 
> Should I be concerned about not having revision c?
> 
> I ask because I am finalizing now and if I need to repull something I want to do it before we wrap up. For what it's worth, I tested the 3.0b cable and it seemed to work fine for basic 4k HDR 60fps playback. Unfortunately I don't have anything to test 120fps with right now.
> 
> I will leave a pull string in of course but easier to swap now if that would be wise.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!


If the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3/B meets your needs and expectations then just keep it in place. The B/C versions were upgrades for compatibility with certain HDMI 2.1 chipset devices. If you have conduit in place, then you're good to go if you need to replace/upgrade your cabling down the road. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Conduit is the ONLY future proof method.


----------



## Ruby D

Otto Pylot said:


> @Tanquen Just a little follow up a bit on your cable question, the design structure of cables is very similar between the two and yes, there are some "HDMI 2.0" cables that can pass the HDMI 2.1 option sets. But that doesn't mean that the two cables are the same, nor does it mean that cables designed for HDMI 2.0 can be operated reliably for HDMI 2.1 options.
> 
> The performance requirements are very different. The design accuracy requirements for basic impedance are 50% lower for HDMI 2.0 than they are for HDMI 2.1. For differential insertion loss, the standard for HDMI 2.1 is 18 times higher than the standard is for HDMI 2.0 and in order to meet these requirements, "HDMI 2.1" cables need better materials, more advanced processing technology and better cable design. The differences are difficult to discern based on appearance alone.





Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters announced that they will have a certified active cable in conjunction with Silicon Line GmBH and Granite River Labs. Cable length has yet to be confirmed, at least as far as I can find. I agree, there should be an HDMI cable that just works with the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and some of the newer passive cables from Ruipro and Zeskit do in fact work well. Unfortunately the design of active cables is a bit more challenging hence the ongoing trial and error to find one that works. Certification is mainly for consumer confidence about how the cable was tested but, as I have said, doesn't guarantee compatibility.
> 
> What a "true" 48Gbps cable actually is is up for debate, and I agree about the 8k logo but that's just marketing.


I have been using the Cable Matters model 300047 8K HDMI 2.1 10 meter Active Optical Ultra High Speed Certified cable for over a month now, connected to an 8K e-shift upscaling JVC RS3000 projector and an 8K capable Denon AVR-X6700H receiver and an Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray player. It performs flawlessly and easily passed the Denon ultra high speed cable test at 40GBPS on the Denon receiver. There is supposedly is 8K material available -- search for 8K on youtube (Sony and others have posted 8K material) but unless you can process these streams at 8k all the way through the process, the best is output is really just an augmented 4K -- pixel interpolated/upscaled via processors and pixel shift technology to 8K. Nonetheless, I have attached some photos of my testing of this Cable Matters 300047 cable and I am thoroughly impressed with it and would enthusiastically recommend it. 

All of the attached photos were taken with the picture paused on a 135" Stewart StudioTek 130 G4 screen with an iPhone 11 from the front row of my theater (with the exception of the Denon Cable test photos). The pictures of the Cheetah and the Fly were taken with 8K source material at the start, but then streamed via a 4K Firestick to the Denon 8K receiver (so really 4k with some processor upscaling using the 8K Denon output to the projector) and then the projector using its additional 8K upscaling capability. Still, will all this going on, to my eyes, the picture is absolutely stunning on a quality 135" screen. The Monitor Lizard photo was also taken using a freeze frame from the Oppo UDP-205 using a UHD 4K Planet Earth II video disc, which is an exceptionally sharp 4K source. I even had the closet light on in the back of the room and these pictures still came out nicely -- showing the fine focus details this projector can produce when given a high quality source. The colors are outstanding as well. 

For those that are interested, the Cable Matters 300047 10 meter Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 8K certified cable is now sold via Amazon for $99, which I think is an incredible value for a 10 meter cable of this quality and capability. I purchased a pre-final packaging version directly from Cable Matters, but would have purchased it via Amazon had it been available at the time. 


https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-300047-BLK-10m-HDMI/dp/B08GMC7C91/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=cable+matters+300047&qid=1616100705&sr=8-3


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ruby D said:


> I have been using the Cable Matters model 300047 8K HDMI 2.1 10 meter Active Optical Ultra High Speed Certified cable for over a month now, connected to an 8K e-shift upscaling JVC RS3000 projector and an 8K capable Denon AVR-X6700H receiver and an Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray player. It performs flawlessly and easily passed the Denon ultra high speed cable test at 40GBPS on the Denon receiver. There is supposedly is 8K material available -- search for 8K on youtube (Sony and others have posted 8K material) but unless you can process these streams at 8k all the way through the process, the best is output is really just an augmented 4K -- pixel interpolated/upscaled via processors and pixel shift technology to 8K. Nonetheless, I have attached some photos of my testing of this Cable Matters 300047 cable and I am thoroughly impressed with it and would enthusiastically recommend it.


Excellent. I was hoping that someone would post a review on them. Even though certification is not a guarantee of compatibility at least the consumer knows with confidence that the cable was tested by a standardized set of protocols. 10m is a good length for some. Did the QR label scan ok?


----------



## Rock Danger

Hi,

Quick question for all you fine people. 

Does the latest Ruipro cable negate the need for an ext 5V rail? And if not what is the consensus with the 8K Bullet Train cables, which do included an ext 5v if needed?

There are 2.1 processors that will not work without the 5v rail, even with 4K HDR, despite it being fine on that processors earlier revision with a 2.0b board. 

Even when the cable being used (monoprice slim run AV 4K) removes less than 0.05v - surely tolerances can't be this tight?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rock Danger said:


> Hi,
> 
> Quick question for all you fine people.
> 
> Does the latest Ruipro cable negate the need for an ext 5V rail? And if not what is the consensus with the 8K Bullet Train cables, which do included an ext 5v if needed?
> 
> There are 2.1 processors that will not work without the 5v rail, even with 4K HDR, despite it being fine on that processors earlier revision with a 2.0b board.
> 
> Even when the cable being used (monoprice slim run AV 4K) removes less than 0.05v - surely tolerances can't be this tight?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


If you're asking if the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables require the voltage inserter the answer is yes and no. They include it in case the voltage output current at the sink side fluctuates too much for the chipsets in the connector ends to keep reliable connections. If you don't have any issues without the inserter, you're fine. If you do have issues, try the inserter but it is not guaranteed to correct the issue. Ruipro includes it just in case you need it and it works.

HDMI ports are standardized around a 5v/50mA output. The 50mA - 55mA is what the cable will draw but if the output current fluctuates enough, that could cause problems. The Ruipro voltage inserter is set to 5v/500mA (if I remember correctly) so even with fluctuation, there should be plenty of current available to maintain a steady signal.

Bullet Train cables (AVPro) are interesting AOC cables in that they are ISF Certified but not HDMI LA Certified (they won't have a QR label), and one can apparently cut the cable and attach different termination points for other purposes. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility, it's mostly for consumer confidence that the cables have been tested and certified following either the Image and Science Foundation (ISF, which is not really a certification body) program or the standardized HDMI LA program.


----------



## Rock Danger

Otto Pylot said:


> If you're asking if the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables require the voltage inserter the answer is yes and no. They include it in case the voltage output current at the sink side fluctuates too much for the chipsets in the connector ends to keep reliable connections. If you don't have any issues without the inserter, you're fine. If you do have issues, try the inserter but it is not guaranteed to correct the issue. Ruipro includes it just in case you need it and it works.
> 
> HDMI ports are standardized around a 5v/50mA output. The 50mA - 55mA is what the cable will draw but if the output current fluctuates enough, that could cause problems. The Ruipro voltage inserter is set to 5v/500mA (if I remember correctly) so even with fluctuation, there should be plenty of current available to maintain a steady signal.
> 
> Bullet Train cables (AVPro) are interesting AOC cables in that they are ISF Certified but not HDMI LA Certified (they won't have a QR label), and one can apparently cut the cable and attach different termination points for other purposes. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility, it's mostly for consumer confidence that the cables have been tested and certified following either the Image and Science Foundation (ISF, which is not really a certification body) program or the standardized HDMI LA program.



Thanks for the reply. I get most of that just fine already, but was unaware that Ruipro had a external USB buddy just in case, or are you referring to something else? I've never seen a pic if this and just figured that chipsets had been tweaked inside with the gen 3 cables.

I do struggle with a manufacturers claim that the cable I have now is at fault when the cable claim is that it takes away less than 0.05v from the processor.

If we however assume that is true, are tolerances really that tight?

Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rock Danger said:


> Thanks for the reply. I get most of that just fine already, but was unaware that Ruipro had a external USB buddy just in case, or are you referring to something else? I've never seen a pic if this and just figured that chipsets had been tweaked inside with the gen 3 cables.
> 
> I do struggle with a manufacturers claim that the cable I have now is at fault when the cable claim is that it takes away less than 0.05v from the processor.
> 
> If we however assume that is true, are tolerances really that tight?
> 
> Thanks.


The Ruipro 4k and 8k hybrid fiber cables come with a voltage inserter, at least mine did. The voltage inserter is USB powered and has about a 17" USB cable so you can connect it to a spare USB port on the tv or receiver or use a USB wall adapter.

Ruipro has tweaked their proprietary chipsets for better compatibility with the newer HDMI 2.1 devices. As mentioned, the HDMI ports are standardized around 5v/50mA so the active cable mfrs need to design their chipsets to work reliably with a 50mA-55mA current draw. In the past, that wasn't really difficult to do, but with the advent of the higher video demands with HDMI 2.0/2.1 and bandwidth requirements, reliability has become a bit more difficult, even with AOC
cables. The problem seems to happen more with certain projectors but nothing has been definitively determined. Some have had success with the voltage inserters, some haven't. If the cable works, then don't use it because you're better off with nothing in-between the source and sink but the single cable.


----------



## GeekGirl

Is anyone familiar with SnapAV? My local retailer, a locally owned small high-def audio and home theater business that's been around for 40 years, sold me a 3m cable for $40.

I found the website: Binary™ BX Series 8K Ultra HD High Speed HDMI® Cable with GripTek™ 

Apparently, SnapAV only sells to installers. The cable is well-built, but the specs show that they aren't Premium Certified (Support --> Binary BX Cutsheet PDF).


----------



## Otto Pylot

GeekGirl said:


> Is anyone familiar with SnapAV? My local retailer, a locally owned small high-def audio and home theater business that's been around for 40 years, sold me a 3m cable for $40.
> 
> I found the website: Binary™ BX Series 8K Ultra HD High Speed HDMI® Cable with GripTek™
> 
> Apparently, SnapAV only sells to installers. The cable is well-built, but the specs show that they aren't Premium Certified (Support --> Binary BX Cutsheet PDF).


Nice looking cables, and the product description hits all the marketing points with some extra fluff thrown in (zinc metal heads, GripTek, CL2 fire rating, etc). The cable description is also very carefully worded. "Ultra HD High Speed HDMI" instead of the certified name of "Ultra High Speed HDMI" cable. 3m is a good length so try it. If it works for what you need it to do then that's the cable for you. Just make sure you have easy access to your cabling because chances are you will be needing to replace them sooner or later.


----------



## stardrab

I've been fighting for a while with my eVGA XC3 RTX 3080 to Samsung Q80T. It seemed like my Zeskit (certified) cable (only 6 feet) was working well for a while but then I had progressively more trouble with the handshake (having to reboot the computer multiple times, hard-reset the TV, etc.) counting on luck for it to work. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to drop down to 32Gbps and disable DSC (using CRU utility to modify the EDID in Windows).

Even though the Zeskit cable seemed to be the best of the ones I originally bought, I had a Monoprice "8K No Label" un-certified cable that originally worked without issue. When I swap that in, I have near perfect handshakes (sometimes it can take 5-10s) but every few minutes the screen will go "No Signal" for about 10 seconds and come back (this didn't happen with the Zeskit).

So, in summary, Zeskit works solid at 32Gbps with no dropouts, but really struggles to handshake at 40Gbps. Monoprice has no issues with handshake but I get "No Signal" every few minutes (going to try it for a few more days to get a more solid idea of how often this happens). Bottom line is that I can't understand the strange cable behavior.

The point of my post is that I'm wondering if someone has similar devices to me (2020 Samsung TV and RTX 3080) that has success with a particular cable. I'm trying to run 4K/4:4:4/10-bit in VRR (although downgraded to 8-bit for 32Gbit link).

Final note: I have a second 6' Zeskit cable and it has the same behavior as the first, so doesn't seem like I have a "bad" cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

voyager6868 said:


> I've been fighting for a while with my eVGA XC3 RTX 3080 to Samsung Q80T. It seemed like my Zeskit (certified) cable (only 6 feet) was working well for a while but then I had progressively more trouble with the handshake (having to reboot the computer multiple times, hard-reset the TV, etc.) counting on luck for it to work. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to drop down to 32Gbps and disable DSC (using CRU utility to modify the EDID in Windows).
> 
> Even though the Zeskit cable seemed to be the best of the ones I originally bought, I had a Monoprice "8K No Label" un-certified cable that originally worked without issue. When I swap that in, I have near perfect handshakes (sometimes it can take 5-10s) but every few minutes the screen will go "No Signal" for about 10 seconds and come back (this didn't happen with the Zeskit).
> 
> So, in summary, Zeskit works solid at 32Gbps with no dropouts, but really struggles to handshake at 40Gbps. Monoprice has no issues with handshake but I get "No Signal" every few minutes (going to try it for a few more days to get a more solid idea of how often this happens). Bottom line is that I can't understand the strange cable behavior.
> 
> The point of my post is that I'm wondering if someone has similar devices to me (2020 Samsung TV and RTX 3080) that has success with a particular cable. I'm trying to run 4K/4:4:4/10-bit in VRR (although downgraded to 8-bit for 32Gbit link).
> 
> Final note: I have a second 6' Zeskit cable and it has the same behavior as the first, so doesn't seem like I have a "bad" cable.


Try the Ruipro certified UHS HDMI cables. I'm not a gamer but they have been solid on my OLED upstairs. I have the Zeskit Maya cables on the system downstairs and they worked just as well, until one of the cables failed to maintain a reliable connection. I've contacted Zeskit but have not heard back from them. Another poster had similar issues. Just make sure that the cables are not kinked at all and the connection at the HDMI port is solid and stress-free. I know there have been some issue originally with the 3080/3090s but it's been hard to determine if it was the GPU, the cable, or the sink device (tv).


----------



## stardrab

Otto Pylot said:


> Try the Ruipro certified UHS HDMI cables. I'm not a gamer but they have been solid on my OLED upstairs. I have the Zeskit Maya cables on the system downstairs and they worked just as well, until one of the cables failed to maintain a reliable connection. I've contacted Zeskit but have not heard back from them. Another poster had similar issues. Just make sure that the cables are not kinked at all and the connection at the HDMI port is solid and stress-free. I know there have been some issue originally with the 3080/3090s but it's been hard to determine if it was the GPU, the cable, or the sink device (tv).


Thanks! I've ordered the Ruipro 2m cable tonight and will try it out. Cables have been connected with plenty of slack, no kinks, etc. so probably doing all I can in that regard. I saw something back in the thread about Ruipro having trouble with their active cables and evga cards so hoping it's not my evga card that's at fault.


----------



## Otto Pylot

voyager6868 said:


> Thanks! I've ordered the Ruipro 2m cable tonight and will try it out. Cables have been connected with plenty of slack, no kinks, etc. so probably doing all I can in that regard. I saw something back in the thread about Ruipro having trouble with their active cables and evga cards so hoping it's not my evga card that's at fault.


In theory, you shouldn't have any issues with a passive cable and your EVGA cards because there aren't any "electronics" to deal with with regards to the HDMI ports and an active cable's connector ends. But, there are no guarantees with any cable and setup.


----------



## bryantc

Monster M-Series 3000 Certified Premium HDMI 2.1,


PLUG AND PLAY AT HIGH RESOLUTION AND SPEED: Transform the way you experience your films, TV shows, and games with the Monster HDMI 2.1 cable; This features an epic 8K picture quality at 60Hz transitions for higher FPS levels TOP NOTCH VISUAL AND AUDIO SUPPORT: Allow our Monster 8K HDMI to...




monsterstore.com





Anyone seen this crap marketing from Monster?

"Certified Premium HDMI 2.1"

What the hell does that even mean? I'm guessing they've been certified for Premium 18Gbps speed and then they decided to claim HDMI 2.1 on their own. As if you needed further proof of how sleazy this company is.


----------



## Ratman

bryantc said:


> Anyone seen this crap marketing from Monster?


For a couple decades.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bryantc said:


> Monster M-Series 3000 Certified Premium HDMI 2.1,
> 
> 
> PLUG AND PLAY AT HIGH RESOLUTION AND SPEED: Transform the way you experience your films, TV shows, and games with the Monster HDMI 2.1 cable; This features an epic 8K picture quality at 60Hz transitions for higher FPS levels TOP NOTCH VISUAL AND AUDIO SUPPORT: Allow our Monster 8K HDMI to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> monsterstore.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone seen this crap marketing from Monster?
> 
> "Certified Premium HDMI 2.1"
> 
> What the hell does that even mean? I'm guessing they've been certified for Premium 18Gbps speed and then they decided to claim HDMI 2.1 on their own. As if you needed further proof of how sleazy this company is.


Kings of marketing b.s., again. Monster plays the word salad game better than anyone. Premium HD HDMI is NOT the same thing a Premium High Speed HDMI (ATC certified) so their "certification" is in-house only. Same thing holds true for their Ultra HD line of cables as well. And their V-Grip connector is just like another competitor's SureGrip connector. My guess is that they will still sell lots of those cables to the novice crowd, which is most of the consumers, especially if Best Buy gets involved.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Kings of marketing b.s......
> My guess is that they will still sell lots of those cables to the novice crowd, which is most of the consumers, especially if Best Buy gets involved.


That's how they still are in business.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters announced that they will have a certified active cable in conjunction with Silicon Line GmBH and Granite River Labs. Cable length has yet to be confirmed, at least as far as I can find. I agree, there should be an HDMI cable that just works with the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and some of the newer passive cables from Ruipro and Zeskit do in fact work well. Unfortunately the design of active cables is a bit more challenging hence the ongoing trial and error to find one that works. Certification is mainly for consumer confidence about how the cable was tested but, as I have said, doesn't guarantee compatibility.
> 
> What a "true" 48Gbps cable actually is is up for debate, and I agree about the 8k logo but that's just marketing.


"Cable Matters announced that they will have a certified active cable in conjunction with Silicon Line GmBH and Granite River Labs"
Are you sure it's ok to talk about that?
" Ruipro and Zeskit do in fact work well."
Not from what I've seen, anything active has been hit or miss. 
"What a "true" 48Gbps cable actually is is up for debate,"
No! No it is not.



Otto Pylot said:


> @Tanquen Just a little follow up a bit on your cable question, the design structure of cables is very similar between the two and yes, there are some "HDMI 2.0" cables that can pass the HDMI 2.1 option sets. But that doesn't mean that the two cables are the same, nor does it mean that cables designed for HDMI 2.0 can be operated reliably for HDMI 2.1 options.
> 
> The performance requirements are very different. The design accuracy requirements for basic impedance are 50% lower for HDMI 2.0 than they are for HDMI 2.1. For differential insertion loss, the standard for HDMI 2.1 is 18 times higher than the standard is for HDMI 2.0 and in order to meet these requirements, "HDMI 2.1" cables need better materials, more advanced processing technology and better cable design. The differences are difficult to discern based on appearance alone.


There are different requirements but the fact is if you had a good quality HDMI 2.0 cable and that was less than 15' there is a good chance it will work with HDMI 2.1 40-48Gbps signals. Hence all the short 8k cables from day one. My very old 25' HDMI cable can almost do it. It can do everything HDMI 2.1 but he 4k and or 120Hrz. The stuff you need more than 18Gbps or whatever it is bandwidth for.


----------



## Tanquen

voyager6868 said:


> I've been fighting for a while with my eVGA XC3 RTX 3080 to Samsung Q80T. It seemed like my Zeskit (certified) cable (only 6 feet) was working well for a while but then I had progressively more trouble with the handshake (having to reboot the computer multiple times, hard-reset the TV, etc.) counting on luck for it to work. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to drop down to 32Gbps and disable DSC (using CRU utility to modify the EDID in Windows).
> 
> Even though the Zeskit cable seemed to be the best of the ones I originally bought, I had a Monoprice "8K No Label" un-certified cable that originally worked without issue. When I swap that in, I have near perfect handshakes (sometimes it can take 5-10s) but every few minutes the screen will go "No Signal" for about 10 seconds and come back (this didn't happen with the Zeskit).
> 
> So, in summary, Zeskit works solid at 32Gbps with no dropouts, but really struggles to handshake at 40Gbps. Monoprice has no issues with handshake but I get "No Signal" every few minutes (going to try it for a few more days to get a more solid idea of how often this happens). Bottom line is that I can't understand the strange cable behavior.
> 
> The point of my post is that I'm wondering if someone has similar devices to me (2020 Samsung TV and RTX 3080) that has success with a particular cable. I'm trying to run 4K/4:4:4/10-bit in VRR (although downgraded to 8-bit for 32Gbit link).
> 
> Final note: I have a second 6' Zeskit cable and it has the same behavior as the first, so doesn't seem like I have a "bad" cable.


Yeah, there still are not that many RTX 3000 cards and or other HDMI 2.1 cards and folks that have an HDMI 2.1 TV/Display that they what to mess with 20GBps + HDMI 2.1 signals. A lot of those HDMI 2.1 and or 8K listed cables are not really 48GBps cables and or at best on the ragged edge of working so you get drop outs. I've got 2 shorter cables that are not active and they handle 48Gbps just fine, no dropouts and no handshake issues. Still waiting for a 25'+ cables that are true 48gbps, no issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Tanquen I was referring to the passive Zeskit and Ruipro cables, not the active ones. As far as the Ruipro active cables go, they work better than most but, as we've said many times, there are no 100% guarantees.

The CableMatters active, potentially ATC certified cables are public knowledge and some users have been testing them and reporting their results.

As far as a "true 48Gbps cable" goes, until there are 12-bit panels (affordable for the consumer) and source material that actually requires 48Gbps, the consumer just won't know how the current crop of certified, UHS HDMI cables will actually perform. I do agree that there a well made HDMI cables, at or below 15', that may work but again, there just is no way to know for sure until said material and panels are available.

What is a good quality HDMI cable? One that works for what you need.
How can you tell if it will work for the HDMI 2.1 option set? You can't (without source material that requires 48Gbps).


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> @Tanquen I was referring to the passive Zeskit and Ruipro cables, not the active ones. As far as the Ruipro active cables go, they work better than most but, as we've said many times, there are no 100% guarantees.
> 
> The CableMatters active, potentially ATC certified cables are public knowledge and some users have been testing them and reporting their results.
> 
> As far as a "true 48Gbps cable" goes, until there are 12-bit panels (affordable for the consumer) and source material that actually requires 48Gbps, the consumer just won't know how the current crop of certified, UHS HDMI cables will actually perform. I do agree that there a well made HDMI cables, at or below 15', that may work but again, there just is no way to know for sure until said material and panels are available.
> 
> What is a good quality HDMI cable? One that works for what you need.
> How can you tell if it will work for the HDMI 2.1 option set? You can't (without source material that requires 48Gbps).


Passive or active who cares, IT SHOULD WORK, IT SHOULD ALWAYS WORK. 
Again, you don't really answer the questions and post more less than useful stuff like "there are no 100% guarantees." thanks we know.
Again, I've told you a few times now that I and others can test 48Gbps.
Again, still waiting for a 25'+ cables that are true 48gbps, no issues.


----------



## stardrab

Otto Pylot said:


> In theory, you shouldn't have any issues with a passive cable and your EVGA cards because there aren't any "electronics" to deal with with regards to the HDMI ports and an active cable's connector ends. But, there are no guarantees with any cable and setup.


Yes, it's frustrating that I get different results with two passive cables, and the one that is supposedly "certified" gives me worse results.

If the Ruipro doesn't help, I think my next steps are TV mainboard replacement, and if no luck, then RTX 3080 replacement.

It's too bad that the state of HDMI 2.1 sucks so much right now...


----------



## Tanquen

voyager6868 said:


> Yes, it's frustrating that I get different results with two passive cables, and the one that is supposedly "certified" gives me worse results.
> 
> If the Ruipro doesn't help, I think my next steps are TV mainboard replacement, and if no luck, then RTX 3080 replacement.
> 
> It's too bad that the state of HDMI 2.1 sucks so much right now...


I've got an issue with my MSI RTX 3080 and support has ignored me for a month. 
Your issue don't sound like the cable.
I've 2 short ones with no issues and a 25' one that only has issues with 4k and 120Hrz.


----------



## stardrab

Tanquen said:


> I've got an issue with my MSI RTX 3080 and support has ignored me for a month.
> Your issue don't sound like the cable.
> I've 2 short ones with no issues and a 25' one that only has issues with 4k and 120Hrz.


At this point, I'd agree that it may not be a cable issue. My only hesitation is that I see different results with the two cables I have.

Zeskit Maya 6' (certified): Almost never able to handshake (90%+ of the time) at 40Gbps or with DSC; at 32Gbps, no DSC, works reliably, but still has a handshake issue sometimes (maybe 10% of time)
Monoprice 8K No Label 6' (not certified): Handshake always succeeds (sometimes takes ~10 seconds) regardless of bitrate or use of DSC. At 40Gbps or with DSC it loses signal temporarily (for ~10 seconds) periodically (sometimes it can go 30 minutes with no issue, sometimes just a few minutes)

I've recently ordered a Ruipro passive 6' and also two newer Monoprice certified cables and will report back on what I see with them.

Certainly if I see no better results with them, then I feel I've eliminated cables as the source of the problem and will move on to the next easiest to deal with, which is the TV, as I can have a repair service out to replace the main board in about a week. I don't even want to think about the hassle of replacing the RTX 3080 give the extreme supply shortages, so I hope it's not that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Passive or active who cares, IT SHOULD WORK, IT SHOULD ALWAYS WORK.
> Again, you don't really answer the questions and post more less than useful stuff like "there are no 100% guarantees." thanks we know.
> Again, I've told you a few times now that I and others can test 48Gbps.
> Again, still waiting for a 25'+ cables that are true 48gbps, no issues.


🙄 So, you test your cables with a Murideo analyzer or SL82812?


----------



## Otto Pylot

voyager6868 said:


> It's too bad that the state of HDMI 2.1 sucks so much right now...


HDMI in general sucks.


----------



## Tanquen

voyager6868 said:


> At this point, I'd agree that it may not be a cable issue. My only hesitation is that I see different results with the two cables I have.
> 
> Zeskit Maya 6' (certified): Almost never able to handshake (90%+ of the time) at 40Gbps or with DSC; at 32Gbps, no DSC, works reliably, but still has a handshake issue sometimes (maybe 10% of time)
> Monoprice 8K No Label 6' (not certified): Handshake always succeeds (sometimes takes ~10 seconds) regardless of bitrate or use of DSC. At 40Gbps or with DSC it loses signal temporarily (for ~10 seconds) periodically (sometimes it can go 30 minutes with no issue, sometimes just a few minutes)
> 
> I've recently ordered a Ruipro passive 6' and also two newer Monoprice certified cables and will report back on what I see with them.
> 
> Certainly if I see no better results with them, then I feel I've eliminated cables as the source of the problem and will move on to the next easiest to deal with, which is the TV, as I can have a repair service out to replace the main board in about a week. I don't even want to think about the hassle of replacing the RTX 3080 give the extreme supply shortages, so I hope it's not that.


Even when the cable is good you can still have Handshake issues with bad acting HDMI devices. Random issues are tuff and it's easy to think something you've swapped out changed the issue and really it's jus the boot order and so on. I've not messed with EDID in ages but again my Win10 and RTX 3080 to an LG C977 work fine.

Another RTX 3080 to test with is hard to come by, or even another HDMI 2.0 TV. Do you have another PC to try and or clean Win10 install. Very low likelihood it would make a difference but you never know. Is game mode on? Some say it works better with it off.

Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 16ft,  Works well
Monster Ultra High-Speed 8K Blue HDMI 2.1 Cable at 48 Gbps 6 ft Works well
HDMI Fiber Optic Cable, Gbeta 8K Optic HDMI 2.1 Cable 48Gbps Ultra High Speed [email protected] [email protected] Support HDCP Did not even pass HDMI 2.0

I think it did get stuck once and I had to power everything off and disconnect the other LCD displays and power back up with just the HDMI to the TV. I've seen others have issues while other regular PC displays were connected along with the TV. I think it was just the resolution setting that was stuck, I forget.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> 🙄 So, you test your cables with a Murideo analyzer or SL82812?


No.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> No.


Ah. So you use your receiver to accurately and reliably test bandwidth. That's nice.


----------



## stardrab

Tanquen said:


> Even when the cable is good you can still have Handshake issues with bad acting HDMI devices. Random issues are tuff and it's easy to think something you've swapped out changed the issue and really it's jus the boot order and so on. I've not messed with EDID in ages but again my Win10 and RTX 3080 to an LG C977 work fine.
> 
> Another RTX 3080 to test with is hard to come by, or even another HDMI 2.0 TV. Do you have another PC to try and or clean Win10 install. Very low likelihood it would make a difference but you never know. Is game mode on? Some say it works better with it off.
> 
> Zeskit 8K Ultra HD High Speed 48Gpbs HDMI Cable 16ft,  Works well
> Monster Ultra High-Speed 8K Blue HDMI 2.1 Cable at 48 Gbps 6 ft Works well
> HDMI Fiber Optic Cable, Gbeta 8K Optic HDMI 2.1 Cable 48Gbps Ultra High Speed [email protected] [email protected] Support HDCP Did not even pass HDMI 2.0
> 
> I think it did get stuck once and I had to power everything off and disconnect the other LCD displays and power back up with just the HDMI to the TV. I've seen others have issues while other regular PC displays were connected along with the TV. I think it was just the resolution setting that was stuck, I forget.


Thanks for the tips. Actually, I've swapped back and forth between the Zeskit and Monoprice about 5 times and it's consistent behavior between the two and I follow the same process each time I swap out. The reason I did it so many times was exactly your point that I couldn't believe a cable could cause that kind of difference, but it definitely does in my case. I thought it was just bad luck, or different timings, or some other factor, but it is the cable that's making the difference.

I've done a clean Windows install before and no difference. The issue happens both in and out of Game Mode.
My best workaround right now is to lower the link rate to 32Gbps and turn off DSC via the CRU utility. That pretty much solves my problem, but I'm still interested in figuring out what is really causing this.

Agreed that it's hard to find another HDMI 2.1 source or sink. I have a PS5, but it maxes out at 32Gbps (no DSC) and I have another Samsung TV, but it maxes out at 24Gbps (no DSC). So both work correctly as neither exercises what is broken, which is link rate of 40Gbps or DSC modes.

I do find that the Zeskit and Monoprice "fit" differently into the TV also. The Zeskit feels a bit "mushy" when I connect it, versus the Monoprice feels more like it's "locking in". Totally possible that there is some issue with the HDMI port on my TV where the one cable is just getting a better fit. Again, just guessing here.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Ah. So you use your receiver to accurately and reliably test bandwidth. That's nice.


No.


----------



## Tanquen

voyager6868 said:


> Thanks for the tips. Actually, I've swapped back and forth between the Zeskit and Monoprice about 5 times and it's consistent behavior between the two and I follow the same process each time I swap out. The reason I did it so many times was exactly your point that I couldn't believe a cable could cause that kind of difference, but it definitely does in my case. I thought it was just bad luck, or different timings, or some other factor, but it is the cable that's making the difference.
> 
> I've done a clean Windows install before and no difference. The issue happens both in and out of Game Mode.
> My best workaround right now is to lower the link rate to 32Gbps and turn off DSC via the CRU utility. That pretty much solves my problem, but I'm still interested in figuring out what is really causing this.
> 
> Agreed that it's hard to find another HDMI 2.1 source or sink. I have a PS5, but it maxes out at 32Gbps (no DSC) and I have another Samsung TV, but it maxes out at 24Gbps (no DSC). So both work correctly as neither exercises what is broken, which is link rate of 40Gbps or DSC modes.
> 
> I do find that the Zeskit and Monoprice "fit" differently into the TV also. The Zeskit feels a bit "mushy" when I connect it, versus the Monoprice feels more like it's "locking in". Totally possible that there is some issue with the HDMI port on my TV where the one cable is just getting a better fit. Again, just guessing here.


Does the TV just have the one HDMI 2.1 port? I'm always worrying about the ports failing while trying all these different cables. Most of the cables are also not terribly flexible and it's difficult to get them into the ports. At least the LGC9 has 4 HDMI 2.1 ports. Do you have any other HDMI video cards. My Old Vega 64 card is only HDMI 2.0 but if I had this issue I could try those same cables and see if it had the same handshake issue with the highest bandwidth settings the older card can muster.


----------



## stardrab

Tanquen said:


> Does the TV just have the one HDMI 2.1 port? I'm always worrying about the ports failing while trying all these different cables. Most of the cables are also not terribly flexible and it's difficult to get them into the ports. At least the LGC9 has 4 HDMI 2.1 ports. Do you have any other HDMI video cards. My Old Vega 64 card is only HDMI 2.0 but if I had this issue I could try those same cables and see if it had the same handshake issue with the highest bandwidth settings the older card can muster.


Yes, unfortunately, only 1 HDMI 2.1 port. If I use bandwidth at 32Gbps or lower for HDMI 2.1 it works fine, or if I use any HDMI 2.0 modes from my nVidia card it (4K/60, 1440p/120) it works fine too. Just using an HDMI 2.1 link of 40Gbps or using DSC causes problems.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> No.


Good to know.


----------



## helvetica bold

I own a Zeskit cable for my PS5 but I’m looking for a flexible cable for my Series X. Is the Ruipro certified as stiff as Zeskit? 
Occasionally I experience on my Series X a rosey flash in the middle of the screen. I’m curious to see if a new cable solves my issue. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

helvetica bold said:


> I own a Zeskit cable for my PS5 but I’m looking for a flexible cable for my Series X. Is the Ruipro certified as stiff as Zeskit?
> Occasionally I experience on my Series X a rosey flash in the middle of the screen. I’m curious to see if a new cable solves my issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I use 2m lengths of both cables on my HTS's, Zeskit and Ruipro, and they are very similar in their stiffness. If I had to choose, I'd say the Ruipro was a tad more flexible but that's very subjective. Both cables should be kept to minimal bending.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Otto Pylot said:


> I use 2m lengths of both cables on my HTS's, Zeskit and Ruipro, and they are very similar in their stiffness. If I had to choose, I'd say the Ruipro was a tad more flexible but that's very subjective. Both cables should be kept to minimal bending.


I might add that I did have one of my Zeskit cables fail (loss of signal with my ATV4) which is unusual for a passive cable. Can you check the cable with another device to see if there are issues?


----------



## Potrt

WTH is going on with RTX 3000 series and HDMI 2.1 Cables. Bought Moshou 8m HDMI 2.1 cable for LG C9,. It works perfectly with RX 6800XT 4k 120Hz 10 bit RGB, not even once did it lose signal!

Swapped to RTX 3080 and problems began. 4K120hz drops/clips signal, 4k60hz does the same. 1440p 120Hz 10 bit 4:2:2 does the same!!!!??? You could think that GPU HDMI is faulty but its not, tested with other 3080 and same issues.

Its so stupid now that 2080 TI is actually working better with TV (same cable) because 1440p 10bit hdr and 4k60hz hdr works while with 3080 they dont.

_edit_
Phew.... after reading this forum went to CRU and lowered Maximum FRL rate to 40gbs from 48gbs and it seems to work now! Can there be any drawbacks other than not being able to use 12bit color which does not matter?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Potrt said:


> WTH is going on with RTX 3000 series and HDMI 2.1 Cables. Bought Moshou 8m HDMI 2.1 cable for LG C9,. It works perfectly with RX 6800XT 4k 120Hz 10 bit RGB, not even once did it lose signal!
> 
> Swapped to RTX 3080 and problems began. 4K120hz drops/clips signal, 4k60hz does the same. 1440p 120Hz 10 bit 4:2:2 does the same!!!!??? You could think that GPU HDMI is faulty but its not, tested with other 3080 and same issues.
> 
> Its so stupid now that 2080 TI is actually working better with TV (same cable) because 1440p 10bit hdr and 4k60hz hdr works while with 3080 they dont.
> 
> _edit_
> Phew.... after reading this forum went to CRU and lowered Maximum FRL rate to 40gbs from 48gbs and it seems to work now! Can there be any drawbacks other than not being able to use 12bit color which does not matter?


Hmmm, the cable specs certainly touch all of the "buzz words" for HDMI 2.1 but no mention of certification that I can see from the link. Certification certainly doesn't guarantee compatibility but if the "specs" are fudged, who knows?

How long is your run? "48Gbps" cables are questionable because there isn't any source material that requires 48Gbps so there is no way to really check that. Even if the cable can pass 48Gbps most content that I've seen is pushed at 40Gbps (games).

As far a 12-bit color, if you don't have a 12-bit panel it doesn't matter.


----------



## Potrt

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, the cable specs certainly touch all of the "buzz words" for HDMI 2.1 but no mention of certification that I can see from the link. Certification certainly doesn't guarantee compatibility but if the "specs" are fudged, who knows?
> 
> How long is your run? "48Gbps" cables are questionable because there isn't any source material that requires 48Gbps so there is no way to really check that. Even if the cable can pass 48Gbps most content that I've seen is pushed at 40Gbps (games).
> 
> As far a 12-bit color, if you don't have a 12-bit panel it doesn't matter.


It is 8 meters long. This cable.








11.06US $ 41% OFF|8K HD 2.1 Cables 48Gbps 4K 120Hz Support Dynamic HDR 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 3D for projector TV Amplifier Blu ray HDMI compatible Cable|HDMI Cables| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Potrt said:


> It is 8 meters long. This cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11.06US $ 41% OFF|8K HD 2.1 Cables 48Gbps 4K 120Hz Support Dynamic HDR 4:4:4 HDCP 2.2 3D for projector TV Amplifier Blu ray HDMI compatible Cable|HDMI Cables| - AliExpress
> 
> 
> Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com


As far as cable certification goes, 5m is the maximum length for passive cables. There is no mention of certification so you'll just have to take the mfrs' word that the cable can in fact perform well at the lengths given. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility. It's more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by standardized protocols to either meet the HDMI 2.0 or 2.1 option sets. All you can do is try. If the cable works as expected and meets your needs then that's the right cable for you. Just be mindful of bend radius because those cables are stiff so you don't want any sharp, 90º bends and you don't want to put any undue strain the HDMI ports. I would also lay the cable out on the floor and test it prior to installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.


----------



## jk0520

Had a 30ft Monoprice 8k fiber cable but was getting some intermittent flickering about every minute or two with HDR 4k/120 out of my 3090 FE. Switched to a 12m Ruipro v3 from Amazon and it completely cured the flickering. Thanks for the suggestion in this thread, guys and gals. The Monoprice was from Amazon warehouse and didn't have a USB power adapter. Not sure if it should have come with one or not. The Ruipro did have one so it's active. Maybe that was the fix, don't know.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jk0520 said:


> Had a 30ft Monoprice 8k fiber cable but was getting some intermittent flickering about every minute or two with HDR 4k/120 out of my 3090 FE. Switched to a 12m Ruipro v3 from Amazon and it completely cured the flickering. Thanks for the suggestion in this thread, guys and gals. The Monoprice was from Amazon warehouse and didn't have a USB power adapter. Not sure if it should have come with one or not. The Ruipro did have one so it's active. Maybe that was the fix, don't know.


Ruipro includes a voltage inserter with their hybrid fiber cables, which are all active. It's a "just in case" attachment. It's not a requirement to use it but it may help if there are connection issues. Some pj's had current output issues (too much fluctuation) for the active cable chipsets to deal with, but the use of the voltage inserter provided a more consistent and stable current output for the cable. The voltage inserter outputs 5v/500mA instead of the usual 5v/50mA of the HDMI port. When I was testing the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables (Gen-3, 3B, and 3C) I didn't see any performance issues with or without the voltage inserters.


----------



## Straykatt

Potrt said:


> WTH is going on with RTX 3000 series and HDMI 2.1 Cables. Bought Moshou 8m HDMI 2.1 cable for LG C9,. It works perfectly with RX 6800XT 4k 120Hz 10 bit RGB, not even once did it lose signal!
> 
> Swapped to RTX 3080 and problems began. 4K120hz drops/clips signal, 4k60hz does the same. 1440p 120Hz 10 bit 4:2:2 does the same!!!!??? You could think that GPU HDMI is faulty but its not, tested with other 3080 and same issues.
> 
> Its so stupid now that 2080 TI is actually working better with TV (same cable) because 1440p 10bit hdr and 4k60hz hdr works while with 3080 they dont.
> 
> _edit_
> Phew.... after reading this forum went to CRU and lowered Maximum FRL rate to 40gbs from 48gbs and it seems to work now! Can there be any drawbacks other than not being able to use 12bit color which does not matter?


Can you please explain what CRU is and how to make changes to it?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> Can you please explain what CRU is and how to make changes to it?


CRU is Custom Resolution Utility and is an EDID editor.


----------



## Tanquen

Potrt said:


> WTH is going on with RTX 3000 series and HDMI 2.1 Cables. Bought Moshou 8m HDMI 2.1 cable for LG C9,. It works perfectly with RX 6800XT 4k 120Hz 10 bit RGB, not even once did it lose signal!
> 
> Swapped to RTX 3080 and problems began. 4K120hz drops/clips signal, 4k60hz does the same. 1440p 120Hz 10 bit 4:2:2 does the same!!!!??? You could think that GPU HDMI is faulty but its not, tested with other 3080 and same issues.
> 
> Its so stupid now that 2080 TI is actually working better with TV (same cable) because 1440p 10bit hdr and 4k60hz hdr works while with 3080 they dont.
> 
> _edit_
> Phew.... after reading this forum went to CRU and lowered Maximum FRL rate to 40gbs from 48gbs and it seems to work now! Can there be any drawbacks other than not being able to use 12bit color which does not matter?


I have a RTX 3080 that does full 48GBs with short HDMI 2.1 cables but after the first few months it now has an flicker issue with the LGC977. I have a 6900xt that should be here in the next day or so only for testing. Are you saying the AMD card is limited to 40GBs? What is the difference between setting the FRL rate to 40GBs and just lowering the color depth? All the old HDMI cables I have seem to be effected by the res/framerate/color depth comb (under 18GBs or so that all work) as far as dropouts and sync issues. My issues goes away if I set the HDMI port on the TV to default and not PC mode. The only other card I have is not HDMI 2.1 but it has no issues maxed out at 4k-60Hz or 2k-120Hz. It could be the TV or Card. Good thing HDMI 2.1 displays and cards are so easy to come by. FYI, MSI support has not answered calls or emails.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> My issues goes away if I set the HDMI port on the TV to default and not PC mode.


Do you think it could be the PC mode on the C9 that has issues? What options do you lose from switching PC mode to default?


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> I have a RTX 3080 that does full 48GBs with short HDMI 2.1 cables but after the first few months it now has an flicker issue with the LGC977. I have a 6900xt that should be here in the next day or so only for testing. Are you saying the AMD card is limited to 40GBs? What is the difference between setting the FRL rate to 40GBs and just lowering the color depth? All the old HDMI cables I have seem to be effected by the res/framerate/color depth comb (under 18GBs or so that all work) as far as dropouts and sync issues. My issues goes away if I set the HDMI port on the TV to default and not PC mode. The only other card I have is not HDMI 2.1 but it has no issues maxed out at 4k-60Hz or 2k-120Hz. It could be the TV or Card. Good thing HDMI 2.1 displays and cards are so easy to come by. FYI, MSI support has not answered calls or emails.


I've also been dealing with flicker issues and dropped signal with my 3090 and LGC977. I've been using a 48gbps Ruipro cable. I'm going to try a certified Cable Matters HDMI cable next and hopefully that fixes the issue for me.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I've also been dealing with flicker issues and dropped signal with my 3090 and LGC977. I've been using a 48gbps Ruipro cable. I'm going to try a certified Cable Matters HDMI cable next and hopefully that fixes the issue for me.


No typical HDMI bandwidth issues for me on the short 48gbps cables I have. Just an odd flicker of part of the image. The connection is solid. I'll see what happens when the 6900xt gets here but I think it's a dying RXT 3080. It was just fine for a few months and then it started doing this.


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> No typical HDMI bandwidth issues for me on the short 48gbps cables I have. Just an odd flicker of part of the image. The connection is solid. I'll see what happens when the 6900xt gets here but I think it's a dying RXT 3080. It was just fine for a few months and then it started doing this.
> 
> View attachment 3120172


I never had an issue with the flicker, I did hear that you need to make sure live plus is off, did you check that setting?

My issue is with a dropped signal -- over the course of a few hours, when gaming on the C9 at 4K/120hz/444/10 bit, the cable will get extremely hot and eventually will cause the signal to drop. This is with the Ruipro fiber cable. 

Let me know if you end up resolving the issues with the AMD GPU because I'm starting to wonder if the HDMI 2.1 port on the 3090FE is fundamentally flawed.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I never had an issue with the flicker, I did hear that you need to make sure live plus is off, did you check that setting?
> 
> My issue is with a dropped signal -- over the course of a few hours, when gaming on the C9 at 4K/120hz/444/10 bit, the cable will get extremely hot and eventually will cause the signal to drop. This is with the Ruipro fiber cable.
> 
> Let me know if you end up resolving the issues with the AMD GPU because I'm starting to wonder if the HDMI 2.1 port on the 3090FE is fundamentally flawed.


Yes turning off PC mode on the TV port or turning off live plus lessen the issue but it is still there and was not there at all a few months ago with all the same hardware and settings. Something changed in the LG C9 TV or the RTX 3080. At the moment I'm thinking it's the card as my HDMI 2.0 with settings maxed has no issue and the 3080 did not have any issue but now does at any res and refresh.

"My issue is with a dropped signal "
Unfortunately there is no real 48Gbps active cable at this time. Get a 48Gbps cable that is not active aka under 15' and I'm guessing you like me will have no handshake issue or signal drop at 40-48Gbps.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yes turning off PC mode on the TV port or turning off live plus lessen the issue but it is still there and was not there at all a few months ago with all the same hardware and settings. Something changed in the LG C9 TV or the RTX 3080. At the moment I'm thinking it's the card as my HDMI 2.0 with settings maxed has no issue and the 3080 did not have any issue but now does at any res and refresh.
> 
> "My issue is with a dropped signal "
> Unfortunately there is no real 48Gbps active cable at this time. Get a 48Gbps cable that is not active aka under 15' and I'm guessing you like me will have no handshake issue or signal drop at 40-48Gbps.


When Ruipro released their 8k cable, there were quite a few reported issues with the C9 and the 3080/3090 cards. Whether it was the C9 or the RTX cards was never really determined, or at least made public. That's why Ruipro tweaked their 8k cables to Gen-3B and then Gen-3C to afford better compatibility and tested them with the C9. That seemed to correct the issues for most, but not all folks. There was some discussions last year as well on the LG boards about LG using modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in the C9 models but again, nothing was definitively determined. I would think that the use of a passive cable, if possible, would give better results because there are no cable electronics to enter into the equation.


----------



## Tanquen

Yes as we've said many times over and over again and again and again. Ruipro like the other manufacturers that list 8K 48 GBPS cables are okay selling cables that they know are not 48 GBPS cables. They're okay with the fact that most people won't even notice. People that actually can use 48 GBPS noticed but Ruipro and Monoprice and numerous other unknown brands are perfectly willing to sell active 8K 48 GBPS cables that they know are not. Has nothing to do with RTX 3000 cards or LG HDMI 2.1 TVs.


----------



## Ratman

Which do YOU recommend?


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Which do YOU recommend?


I've listed two that work for me a few times. Right now there's nothing special about any of the cables that work other than they're shorter. They're just good quality HDMI 2.0 cables that are short enough to support HDMI 2.1 at 48 Gbps. Get the shortest cables you can live with. Right now the only ones I've seen that actually support 48 GBPS are under 15 ft and even then you need to make sure they're good quality regardless of what the label says. I have some 25-footers that work but the signal cuts in and out and I've tried a couple of fiber cables that said they were 48 GBPS and like all the others so far were not and did not work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Yes as we've said many times over and over again and again and again. Ruipro like the other manufacturers that list 8K 48 GBPS cables are okay selling cables that they know are not 48 GBPS cables. They're okay with the fact that most people won't even notice. People that actually can use 48 GBPS noticed but Ruipro and Monoprice and numerous other unknown brands are perfectly willing to sell active 8K 48 GBPS cables that they know are not. Has nothing to do with RTX 3000 cards or LG HDMI 2.1 TVs.


Wow. Don't need to get so defensive. I was just pointing out some of the posted issues that MAY be contributing factors to incompatibilities for those that are still having issues. I have seen validated test data from Ruipro and Zeskit that does show their cables being able to pass 48Gbps and pass the accepted ranges of variability. What happens when that data stream gets to the connector ends and passes to the HDMI input is another matter, and probably where the problems occur for some. That's why Ruipro at least actually tested their cables from the RTX cards to the C9's. 

If you have a well made High Speed HDMI cable that works, that's great. Problem solved.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Wow. Don't need to get so defensive. I was just pointing out some of the posted issues that MAY be contributing factors to incompatibilities for those that are still having issues. I have seen validated test data from Ruipro and Zeskit that does show their cables being able to pass 48Gbps and pass the accepted ranges of variability. What happens when that data stream gets to the connector ends and passes to the HDMI input is another matter, and probably where the problems occur for some. That's why Ruipro at least actually tested their cables from the RTX cards to the C9's.
> 
> If you have a well made High Speed HDMI cable that works, that's great. Problem solved.


"Wow. Don't need to get so defensive. " What ever, more unhelpful info. Thought you said you did not post about (I knew about active cable certs) rumors? Did you run out of roll eyes?

"Ruipro and Zeskit that does show their cables being able to pass 48Gbps and pass the accepted ranges of variability" Great for them but they don't work and didn't from the time they and others started putting 48 Gbps - 8k lables on them. They should not have until fully tested with real devices but hey, they gots to sell stuff.
"That's why Ruipro at least actually tested their cables from the RTX cards to the C9's." Big of them, its good they are working on them but they had to make changes after the fact and they still don't work.


----------



## christofin

I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the connection between my 3090, 48gbps cable, and LG C9 to work without the signal dropping out. Since the cable is the easiest variable to swap out, I'm going to move on from Ruipro to try this Cable Matters one and will let you all know if it works: 






Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific


Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





I am starting to wonder if the HDMI 2.1 chipset is flawed in the C9, or on the Nvidia cards, and if that's why the CX only has 40gbps. If that's the case, I'm going to be very upset with LG as that's the entire reason I went with an LG OLED display, for 4k/120hz/10bit/444.


----------



## christofin

Potrt said:


> hew.... after reading this forum went to CRU and lowered Maximum FRL rate to 40gbs from 48gbs and it seems to work now! Can there be any drawbacks other than not being able to use 12bit color which does not matter?


Could you describe how to do this with Custom Resolution Utility? Thank you!

Edit - figured it out. I'm going to give this a shot and let's hope that it does iron out the disconnects, but I'm honestly doubting it.

Edit 2 - This did not fix my issue. Signal quality degrades after about 30 minutes of use until the signal drops, and the Ruipro cable is so hot it could fry an egg. I wonder if Ruipro just cheaped out on the heatsink or the plastic area where the HDMI cable actually plugs into the TV because all five of them they've sent me have done this -- they work for the first few weeks, then they get worse and worse over time until I can replicate the signal dropping out faster every time in any given gaming session.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> "Wow. Don't need to get so defensive. " What ever, more unhelpful info. Thought you said you did not post about (I knew about active cable certs) rumors? Did you run out of roll eyes?
> 
> "Ruipro and Zeskit that does show their cables being able to pass 48Gbps and pass the accepted ranges of variability" Great for them but they don't work and didn't from the time they and others started putting 48 Gbps - 8k lables on them. They should not have until fully tested with real devices but hey, they gots to sell stuff.
> "That's why Ruipro at least actually tested their cables from the RTX cards to the C9's." Big of them, its good they are working on them but they had to make changes after the fact and they still don't work.


The "rumors" were in regards to the CableMatters ATC certified UHS active cables, which some folks are testing now with their systems but I don't think are available yet to the general public. I never said that Ruipro's active cables were certified by an ATC. They, like other cable mfrs, do their own in-house testing so that they can make the claim of 48Gbps. They do use the same testing devices that the ATC's do but their tolerances may not be the same, but they are tested at the bench and with consumer devices none the less. Zeskit's passive UHS HDMI cables, as well as Ruipro's passive UHS HDMI cables are tested by ATC's (QR labeled) so the tolerance specs and instrumentation used is the same (standardized protocols).

Cable connectivity will always be an issue because I don't think the two industries, cable mfrs and device mfrs work closely enough together to iron out the compatibility issues, whether they by buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some receivers, modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some panels, or poorly designed HDMI cables and components used.

What you want is an absolute answer for the "HDMI 2.1" cable problems and that just isn't possible at this point in time, and I don't blame you for that. To say it's frustrating is an understatement. The device mfrs and marketeers knew exactly what they were doing when they pushed their new HDMI 2.1 devices to the gamer market. But I do thank you for being a beta tester for the rest of us for HDMI 2.1. It will all work out. You'll just have to be patient.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the connection between my 3090, 48gbps cable, and LG C9 to work without the signal dropping out. Since the cable is the easiest variable to swap out, I'm going to move on from Ruipro to try this Cable Matters one and will let you all know if it works:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific
> 
> 
> Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am starting to wonder if the HDMI 2.1 chipset is flawed in the C9, or on the Nvidia cards, and if that's why the CX only has 40gbps. If that's the case, I'm going to be very upset with LG as that's the entire reason I went with an LG OLED display, for 4k/120hz/10bit/444.


Be sure to update with helpful info. I only need a few 25' but for $99 those look good and are targeting folks that will push 40gbps anyway. It could be anything but my money is on the cable. I have to move my setup to use the shorter cables but it's good to know that it is the cable for handshake and dropouts at higher bitrates. Be sure to test ARC and eARC, see a number of folks that got an active cable working for video but not ARC.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> The "rumors" were in regards to the CableMatters ATC certified UHS active cables, which some folks are testing now with their systems but I don't think are available yet to the general public. I never said that Ruipro's active cables were certified by an ATC. They, like other cable mfrs, do their own in-house testing so that they can make the claim of 48Gbps. They do use the same testing devices that the ATC's do but their tolerances may not be the same, but they are tested at the bench and with consumer devices none the less. Zeskit's passive UHS HDMI cables, as well as Ruipro's passive UHS HDMI cables are tested by ATC's (QR labeled) so the tolerance specs and instrumentation used is the same (standardized protocols).
> 
> Cable connectivity will always be an issue because I don't think the two industries, cable mfrs and device mfrs work closely enough together to iron out the compatibility issues, whether they by buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some receivers, modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some panels, or poorly designed HDMI cables and components used.
> 
> What you want is an absolute answer for the "HDMI 2.1" cable problems and that just isn't possible at this point in time, and I don't blame you for that. To say it's frustrating is an understatement. The device mfrs and marketeers knew exactly what they were doing when they pushed their new HDMI 2.1 devices to the gamer market. But I do thank you for being a beta tester for the rest of us for HDMI 2.1. It will all work out. You'll just have to be patient.


Rumors about everything else is ok, got it. Again, the same non-info over and over again. Get paid by the post and or rumor or how great Ruipro is? What was the title of this thread again?


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> Be sure to update with helpful info. I only need a few 25' but for $99 those look good and are targeting folks that will push 40gbps anyway. It could be anything but my money is on the cable. I have to move my setup to use the shorter cables but it's good to know that it is the cable for handshake and dropouts at higher bitrates. Be sure to test ARC and eARC, see a number of folks that got an active cable working for video but not ARC.


I suspect that it's definitely the cable, if you look at my post above with my edits, I mentioned that the cable gets extremely hot (not the cable itself, but where the cable actually plugs into the GPU) and that's when the signal gets lost. Yesterday it took me about 70 minutes to get the signal to completely drop, then after that last night, about 30 minutes, and just now 15 minutes. I think that Ruipro has to have used low quality materials because this definitely seems like the materials in the cable are degrading. Each and every cable they've sent me have worked for the first few weeks and then get more and more problematic. 

I'm going to move my PC closer to my TV and I'll try out that active Cable Matters cable I linked above, but I think what I really need is a passive cable that community members have already vetted. Are there any passive cables as long as 25ft/7-8m that work with 40/48gbps? I think that's the shortest I could go.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I suspect that it's definitely the cable, if you look at my post above with my edits, I mentioned that the cable gets extremely hot (not the cable itself, but where the cable actually plugs into the GPU) and that's when the signal gets lost. Yesterday it took me about 70 minutes to get the signal to completely drop, then after that last night, about 30 minutes, and just now 15 minutes. I think that Ruipro has to have used low quality materials because this definitely seems like the materials in the cable are degrading. Each and every cable they've sent me have worked for the first few weeks and then get more and more problematic.
> 
> I'm going to move my PC closer to my TV and I'll try out that active Cable Matters cable I linked above, but I think what I really need is a passive cable that community members have already vetted. Are there any passive cables as long as 25ft/7-8m that work with 40/48gbps? I think that's the shortest I could go.


I get rid of it if get really hot, that can't be good long term. I'm sure they are just overclocking the transceiver that was meant to handle 20Gbps HDMI 2.0 stuff.
No just 15' or so for now. The guess is that anything longer with 48gbps support will have to be active.

If you look back in the thread there was an active cable that seemed to work but had a node or device in the middle of the cable, so not great for conduit.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> I've listed two that work for me a few times. Right now there's nothing special about any of the cables that work other than they're shorter


The ones that work are the best. As has been repeated.... shorter is better (no matter what she says).


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I suspect that it's definitely the cable, if you look at my post above with my edits, I mentioned that the cable gets extremely hot (not the cable itself, but where the cable actually plugs into the GPU) and that's when the signal gets lost. Yesterday it took me about 70 minutes to get the signal to completely drop, then after that last night, about 30 minutes, and just now 15 minutes. I think that Ruipro has to have used low quality materials because this definitely seems like the materials in the cable are degrading. Each and every cable they've sent me have worked for the first few weeks and then get more and more problematic.
> 
> I'm going to move my PC closer to my TV and I'll try out that active Cable Matters cable I linked above, but I think what I really need is a passive cable that community members have already vetted. Are there any passive cables as long as 25ft/7-8m that work with 40/48gbps? I think that's the shortest I could go.


The other one is also Cable Matters it has 5 reviews saying it don't work at 48gbps.  I thought someone posted here that it did for them but it's bulky.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...tiveASIN=B08GQDKR81&linkCode=as2&tag=cmi0d-20

Not good for Cable Matters but the one you ordered looks nice and I'm tempted to get some.


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> The other one is also Cable Matters it has 5 reviews saying it don't work at 48gbps.  I thought someone posted here that it did for them but it's bulky.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B...tiveASIN=B08GQDKR81&linkCode=as2&tag=cmi0d-20
> 
> Not good for Cable Matters but the one you ordered looks nice and I'm tempted to get some.


Yeah I saw those reviews, not a good look. It doesn't look like that one is certified, though, whereas the 30ft one I ordered appears to be certified, but also doesn't have any reviews... so we'll see. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I'm not expecting it to work.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> Yeah I saw those reviews, not a good look. It doesn't look like that one is certified, though, whereas the 30ft one I ordered appears to be certified, but also doesn't have any reviews... so we'll see. I'm keeping my fingers crossed but I'm not expecting it to work.


I just ordered 3.  Free returns and fingers crossed. 

Yeah, certified or not the company that makes and sells cables should know what they are doing and label their products accordingly.

I see these use the same photo as cables they sell with the RedMere chip. ??? I have some of those from back in the day and they still run great. Too bad there is not a company like that around to release a working 48Gbps active cable.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> Yeah, certified or not the company that makes and sells cables should know what they are doing and label their products accordingly.


LOL... that's what everyone assumes.


----------



## Tanquen

I can't find their warranty. 

"Cable Matters stands behinds our products. Every product comes with lifetime product support as well as a one year *or* lifetime warranty. "


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Rumors about everything else is ok, got it. Again, the same non-info over and over again. Get paid by the post and or rumor or how great Ruipro is? What was the title of this thread again?


Uh, what other rumors? I don't get paid anything from Ruipro, or Zeskit for that matter, other than the cables they sent me to test for them. Ruipro was one of the first hybrid fiber cable mfrs who offered 8k cables that seemed to work well for a lot of folks, until the HDMI 2.1 GPUs hit the market, then issues came up for some users. Ruipro, to their credit, was willing to work with customers on improving their cables, exchanges with no hassles, and discounts. I haven't seen another cable mfr, at least posted here that's done that. To me, that displays a real effort to make a good product and the willingness to admit a problem and attempt to correct it. Hopefully they will. Zeskit, as I mentioned, hasn't returned my calls on their failed cable so that is discouraging as far as their passive UHS HDMI cables. There are other cables to investigate that show promise for those >16' runs. Cable Matters is one.

Good luck on your search for the perfect UHS HDMI cable that works for everyone.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Uh, what other rumors? I don't get paid anything from Ruipro, or Zeskit for that matter, other than the cables they sent me to test for them. Ruipro was one of the first hybrid fiber cable mfrs who offered 8k cables that seemed to work well for a lot of folks, until the HDMI 2.1 GPUs hit the market, then issues came up for some users. Ruipro, to their credit, was willing to work with customers on improving their cables, exchanges with no hassles, and discounts. I haven't seen another cable mfr, at least posted here that's done that. To me, that displays a real effort to make a good product and the willingness to admit a problem and attempt to correct it. Hopefully they will. Zeskit, as I mentioned, hasn't returned my calls on their failed cable so that is discouraging as far as their passive UHS HDMI cables. There are other cables to investigate that show promise for those >16' runs. Cable Matters is one.
> 
> Good luck on your search for the perfect UHS HDMI cable that works for everyone.


I can definitely attest to Ruipro support being great, I just really hope they can work with Nvidia or LG to fix the issues.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> "Cable Matters stands behinds our products. Every product comes with lifetime product support as well as a one year *or* lifetime warranty. "


One year or lifetime warranty. At least the "support" is good for a lifetime.


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> The "rumors" were in regards to the CableMatters ATC certified UHS active cables, which some folks are testing now with their systems but I don't think are available yet to the general public. I never said that Ruipro's active cables were certified by an ATC. They, like other cable mfrs, do their own in-house testing so that they can make the claim of 48Gbps. They do use the same testing devices that the ATC's do but their tolerances may not be the same, but they are tested at the bench and with consumer devices none the less. Zeskit's passive UHS HDMI cables, as well as Ruipro's passive UHS HDMI cables are tested by ATC's (QR labeled) so the tolerance specs and instrumentation used is the same (standardized protocols).
> 
> Cable connectivity will always be an issue because I don't think the two industries, cable mfrs and device mfrs work closely enough together to iron out the compatibility issues, whether they by buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some receivers, modified HDMI 2.1 chipsets in some panels, or poorly designed HDMI cables and components used.
> 
> What you want is an absolute answer for the "HDMI 2.1" cable problems and that just isn't possible at this point in time, and I don't blame you for that. To say it's frustrating is an understatement. The device mfrs and marketeers knew exactly what they were doing when they pushed their new HDMI 2.1 devices to the gamer market. But I do thank you for being a beta tester for the rest of us for HDMI 2.1. It will all work out. You'll just have to be patient.


I bought a Cable Matters 10m with working hologram logo from HDMI.org from Amazon.co.uk a couple of days ago. Don't have any 8k gear to test with it, but cable was pretty inexpensive - £80. Nicely made, if a bit "bling" with woven exterior.

Edit: this one https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GM...abc_477B4CV5R2K86WNEENNV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Pic attached of the App scan.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> I bought a Cable Matters 10m with working hologram logo from HDMI.org from Amazon.co.uk a couple of days ago. Don't have any 8k gear to test with it, but cable was pretty inexpensive - £80. Nicely made, if a bit "bling" with woven exterior.
> 
> Edit: this one https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GM...abc_477B4CV5R2K86WNEENNV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Pic attached of the App scan.


Excellent! Let's hope it does work reliably. Post back and let us know after you've had it for awhile.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Uh, what other rumors? I don't get paid anything from Ruipro, or Zeskit for that matter, other than the cables they sent me to test for them. Ruipro was one of the first hybrid fiber cable mfrs who offered 8k cables that seemed to work well for a lot of folks, until the HDMI 2.1 GPUs hit the market, then issues came up for some users. Ruipro, to their credit, was willing to work with customers on improving their cables, exchanges with no hassles, and discounts. I haven't seen another cable mfr, at least posted here that's done that. To me, that displays a real effort to make a good product and the willingness to admit a problem and attempt to correct it. Hopefully they will. Zeskit, as I mentioned, hasn't returned my calls on their failed cable so that is discouraging as far as their passive UHS HDMI cables. There are other cables to investigate that show promise for those >16' runs. Cable Matters is one.
> 
> Good luck on your search for the perfect UHS HDMI cable that works for everyone.


The secret code rumors to fix the bad LG and Nvidia chips in the cables.
"Good luck on your search for the perfect UHS HDMI cable that works for everyone. " Could never happen, they have to enter all those secret codes so the cables with work with each HDMI device, will never happen.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent! Let's hope it does work reliably. Post back and let us know after you've had it for awhile.


I'm sure it will work with their equipment, the real test will be if it works at 8K/60hz or 4K/120hz, I'll get my cable on Tuesday and will definitely do some extensive testing as soon as I get it. The certification is promising though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> I'm sure it will work with their equipment, the real test will be if it works at 8K/60hz or 4K/120hz, I'll get my cable on Tuesday and will definitely do some extensive testing as soon as I get it. The certification is promising though.


Looking forward to your post.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I'm sure it will work with their equipment, the real test will be if it works at 8K/60hz or 4K/120hz, I'll get my cable on Tuesday and will definitely do some extensive testing as soon as I get it. The certification is promising though.


I should have mine Sunday. I hope they work and don't get hot. At least you and I can test 4k/120Hz/444/12bit.


----------



## Tanquen

bobof said:


> I bought a Cable Matters 10m with working hologram logo from HDMI.org from Amazon.co.uk a couple of days ago. Don't have any 8k gear to test with it, but cable was pretty inexpensive - £80. Nicely made, if a bit "bling" with woven exterior.
> 
> Edit: this one https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08GM...abc_477B4CV5R2K86WNEENNV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Pic attached of the App scan.


Do you know if it's one year or lifetime on the warranty?


----------



## bobof

Tanquen said:


> Do you know if it's one year or lifetime on the warranty?


The box back says one year limited, and I can't see anything on their storefront to indicate better than that. 

It's only relatively recently that Ruipro switched to lifetime I think, as I had a 4k cable from just over a year ago with 2 year printed on the box.

I'm not sure the warranty would be a deciding factor for me in the circumstance. The Ruipro is over twice the price, and a longer warranty does not mean a higher quality or better product. 

Of course, the performance is as yet a bit unknown, though clearly has at least been good enough to pass certification, which should give some confidence. For passive cables I have in recent times always bought certified ahead of uncertified where available, and now fibre hybrid cables are becoming available I'm likely to do the same.

It is interesting that Cable Matters appear to have chosen to only offer 5 and 10m options. Seems an odd limitation, unless testing showed there to be some reason why longer cables could not pass.


----------



## Tanquen

bobof said:


> The box back says one year limited, and I can't see anything on their storefront to indicate better than that.
> 
> It's only relatively recently that Ruipro switched to lifetime I think, as I had a 4k cable from just over a year ago with 2 year printed on the box.
> 
> I'm not sure the warranty would be a deciding factor for me in the circumstance. The Ruipro is over twice the price, and a longer warranty does not mean a higher quality or better product.
> 
> Of course, the performance is as yet a bit unknown, though clearly has at least been good enough to pass certification, which should give some confidence. For passive cables I have in recent times always bought certified ahead of uncertified where available, and now fibre hybrid cables are becoming available I'm likely to do the same.
> 
> It is interesting that Cable Matters appear to have chosen to only offer 5 and 10m options. Seems an odd limitation, unless testing showed there to be some reason why longer cables could not pass.


It just doesn't give me a ton of confidence when a company sells an expensive electronic product and gives it a 90-day or one-year warranty. I'd like to see a 5-year or a lifetime to denote they have some confidence in the device lasting. On their support page it just mentions that they either have a one year or a lifetime warranty but the page for the cable itself doesn't say what it has.

As far as certification goes it's not like they test every cable. They test a sample cable and then they send them a bunch of stickers. Maybe this will be the one that everybody gets because it just works, fingers crossed.

I could use a 45-footer for a direct connection between the PC and the TV but the current setup is two 25-ft cables with the AVR in between. But I have to wait until at least next year before I get a real AVR that's actually HDMI 2.1 48GBPS. I do wish they had a few more different lengths like 15' and 20' etc. The 33 ft may be a choice on their part to make sure eARC works.

I'll be doing a good bit of testing with the two cables direct to the TV and leave them running for a while and checking their temperatures etc. I've got an RTX 3080 that I believe is failing and an AMD 6900 XT on the way and just today I was able to order an RTX 3060 so I should be able to get a good idea if my particular flashing of part of the screen issue is the video card or the TV.


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> It just doesn't give me a ton of confidence when a company sells an expensive electronic product and gives it a 90-day or one-year warranty. I'd like to see a 5-year or a lifetime to denote they have some confidence in the device lasting. On their support page it just mentions that they either have a one year or a lifetime warranty but the page for the cable itself doesn't say what it has.
> 
> As far as certification goes it's not like they test every cable. They test a sample cable and then they send them a bunch of stickers. Maybe this will be the one that everybody gets because it just works, fingers crossed.
> 
> I could use a 45-footer for a direct connection between the PC and the TV but the current setup is two 25-ft cables with the AVR in between. But I have to wait until at least next year before I get a real AVR that's actually HDMI 2.1 48GBPS. I do wish they had a few more different lengths like 15' and 20' etc. The 33 ft may be a choice on their part to make sure eARC works.
> 
> I'll be doing a good bit of testing with the two cables direct to the TV and leave them running for a while and checking their temperatures etc. I've got an RTX 3080 that I believe is failing and an AMD 5900 XT on the way and just today I was able to order an RTX 3060 so I should be able to get a good idea if my particular flashing of part of the screen issue is the video card or the TV.


Damn that's a lot of GPUs. That should help determine if it's an Nvidia vs AMD issue in general, and separately between the two Nvidia cards if it's an issue with just your 3080. I still think the cable is likely the culprit but we will see.


----------



## bobof

Tanquen said:


> It just doesn't give me a ton of confidence when a company sells an expensive electronic product and gives it a 90-day or one-year warranty. I'd like to see a 5-year or a lifetime to denote they have some confidence in the device lasting. On their support page it just mentions that they either have a one year or a lifetime warranty but the page for the cable itself doesn't say what it has.


Well, as I say, the back of the box says 1 year. However in the box there is the offer to register for 2 year warranty.
Every "expensive" electronics device I own definitely doesn't come with a lifetime warranty. There aren't many examples in the tech world of stuff with a lifetime warranty. Mostly their use is limited to use on lower cost items where the likelihood of a claim is low.



Tanquen said:


> As far as certification goes it's not like they test every cable. They test a sample cable and then they send them a bunch of stickers. Maybe this will be the one that everybody gets because it just works, fingers crossed.


I guess there are the post-certification auditing and in-market product surveillance checks (exact details unclear) that may give some confidence of ongoing compliance. There is also the Designed for Xbox scheme they are part of, which has its own requirements (though exactly what they are for HDMI cables I don't know...)



Tanquen said:


> I could use a 45-footer for a direct connection between the PC and the TV but the current setup is two 25-ft cables with the AVR in between. But I have to wait until at least next year before I get a real AVR that's actually HDMI 2.1 48GBPS. I do wish they had a few more different lengths like 15' and 20' etc.


Well, it's either a commercial (not enough market) or technical (doesn't work great) reason for them topping out at 10m. Somewhere on the website they did mention 15m but it is conspicuously absent from sale.



Tanquen said:


> I'll be doing a good bit of testing with the two cables direct to the TV and leave them running for a while and checking their temperatures etc. I've got an RTX 3080 that I believe is failing and an AMD 5900 XT on the way and just today I was able to order an RTX 3060 so I should be able to get a good idea if my particular flashing of part of the screen issue is the video card or the TV.


Good luck!


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> Damn that's a lot of GPUs. That should help determine if it's an Nvidia vs AMD issue in general, and separately between the two Nvidia cards if it's an issue with just your 3080. I still think the cable is likely the culprit but we will see.


I still think it's the card or the TV. I've got two shorter cables that worked fine for a couple of months that I started having this weird image shift flash issue. It's not the same as a handshake issue or losing the picture all together. I also have an AMD Vega 64 that's not HDMI 2.1 but it has no issues maxed out to 4K 60 hz or 1080 120 hz. The RTX 3080 does it all the time.


----------



## bobof

Some extra photos of the package here. 
Looks like you have to enter your order ID, name and email address to register for the extended warranty.


----------



## reelfreak07

christofin said:


> I don't care whose fault it is, I just want the connection between my 3090, 48gbps cable, and LG C9 to work without the signal dropping out. Since the cable is the easiest variable to swap out, I'm going to move on from Ruipro to try this Cable Matters one and will let you all know if it works:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific
> 
> 
> Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I thought I would chime in as I just bought that 33' Cable Matters cable and the Ruipro one as well recently. I just got my new Vizio 85" P Quantum X 1.5 weeks ago and had ordered the Ruipro first after reading this thread, but it wasn't going to come right away and was able to order that Cable Matters cable to come the next afternoon. I also was sent a hefty Blue Jeans cable my buddy ordered just to have me test out for his curiosity. 

All the cables functioned at 4k 120hz 10bit with 4:4:4 YCbCr color, but the Ruipro was giving me some periodic black screens that would flash once in a while. After running each and swapping them around over the past week, I am sending the Ruipro back and keeping the Cable Matters as it has been working well so far. I couldn't believe the Blue Jeans passive cable even worked, but only only in one direction for some reason. It wouldn't do anything at first, no picture or monitor showed up on my PC and just out of curiosity I reversed the ends and it worked. I have a 3090 RTX GPU running to the tv as my main Display and have been playing games for many hours in 4k120 with no issues with picture or sound. 

I do like the sleeved cable construction of the Cable Matters cable as it's a bit better protected and less likely to get a sharp bend in it, as it's much stiffer than the Ruipro. I don't think you could hurt the Blue Jeans cable, it might hurt you though as its a python beast of a cable.

That's my experience anyways. I don't really care what cable I use as long as it works reliably. I hope it helps some and those cables work for you guys.

Here is the link to the Blue Jeans one if anyone is curious





Amazon.com: BJC Series-1 HDMI Cable, Belden Bonded-Pair, 35 Foot, Black: Electronics


Amazon.com: BJC Series-1 HDMI Cable, Belden Bonded-Pair, 35 Foot, Black: Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Tanquen

bobof said:


> Well, as I say, the back of the box says 1 year. However in the box there is the offer to register for 2 year warranty.
> Every "expensive" electronics device I own definitely doesn't come with a lifetime warranty. There aren't many examples in the tech world of stuff with a lifetime warranty. Mostly their use is limited to use on lower cost items where the likelihood of a claim is low.


Doesn't have to be lifetime like I said I'd like to see at least a 5-year warranty. I really don't think companies should be making stuff that they don't think can last longer than one year.


----------



## bobof

Tanquen said:


> Doesn't have to be lifetime like I said I'd like to see at least a 5-year warranty. I really don't think companies should be making stuff that they don't think can last longer than one year.


The devil's advocate says these things are most often driven by commercial and business policy decisions, not engineering ones. I've been on product warranty discussions before and most often it's a matter of what can we get away with from our market position against the competition, so you find stronger companies often feel quite able to offer crappier warranty terms, and the ones marketing long warranties are sometimes the ones that feel they have something to prove. 

All other things being equal, (_which may well not be the case_), here in the UK, in the example of the Ruipro over the Cablematters, the warranty extension the Ruipro provides in the UK is costing £100 extra on an £80 product... You pay for things one way or another. I'd rather have the £100 in my pocket than a lifetime warranty offered. I see in the US though the difference in price is a fair bit smaller ($99 vs about $175 with a discount code). 

I'll be interested to know if Ruipro will either reduce their pricing in the face of certified competition (albeit not at the longer lengths) or certify their cables, or both.

I sent Ruipro an email a while ago as I was considering the 8K lead but if I'm honest the colour puts me off (!). They did say they had black 8K leads on the way. I wonder if anything else will change with them, or whether it will really be just the jacket colour.


----------



## Tanquen

bobof said:


> The devil's advocate says these things are most often driven by commercial and business policy decisions, not engineering ones. I've been on product warranty discussions before and most often it's a matter of what can we get away with from our market position against the competition, so you find stronger companies often feel quite able to offer crappier warranty terms, and the ones marketing long warranties are sometimes the ones that feel they have something to prove.
> 
> All other things being equal, (_which may well not be the case_), here in the UK, in the example of the Ruipro over the Cablematters, the warranty extension the Ruipro provides in the UK is costing £100 extra on an £80 product... You pay for things one way or another. I'd rather have the £100 in my pocket than a lifetime warranty offered. I see in the US though the difference in price is a fair bit smaller ($99 vs about $175 with a discount code).
> 
> I'll be interested to know if Ruipro will either reduce their pricing in the face of certified competition (albeit not at the longer lengths) or certify their cables, or both.
> 
> I sent Ruipro an email a while ago as I was considering the 8K lead but if I'm honest the colour puts me off (!). They did say they had black 8K leads on the way. I wonder if anything else will change with them, or whether it will really be just the jacket colour.


I don't think Ruipro will change price or make the device work in the short term, they need new hardware.

I just think companies should have to look at more long term design and support. Like you say, they are just going to look at cost and can they sell it not if it will be in a landfill in 6 months. Hopefully Cable Matters is just the first with access to a transceiver with full 48gbps support and low temps and power.


----------



## bobof

Tanquen said:


> I don't think Ruipro will change price or make the device work in the short term, they need new hardware.
> 
> I just think companies should have to look at more long term design and support. Like you say, they are just going to look at cost and can they sell it not if it will be in a landfill in 6 months. Hopefully Cable Matters is just the first with access to a transceiver with full 48gbps support and low temps and power.


It's interesting reading the blurb on Silicon Line 's site (who it appears are providing the fibre engines for Cable Matters, you can see their logo on the box). They're claiming 5x lower power consumption than their competitors, which can only be a good thing. Module - Silicon

I've been impressed with the operation at 18G for sure. Not going to have any 48G gear for a long while though.


----------



## Tanquen

bobof said:


> It's interesting reading the blurb on Silicon Line 's site (who it appears are providing the fibre engines for Cable Matters, you can see their logo on the box). They're claiming 5x lower power consumption than their competitors, which can only be a good thing. Module - Silicon
> 
> I've been impressed with the operation at 18G for sure. Not going to have any 48G gear for a long while though.


Hoping to do some testing on Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I don't think Ruipro will change price or make the device work in the short term, they need new hardware.


Ruipro has indeed gone back to the drawing board, and is looking to improving their proprietary chipsets and design now that serious competition from Cable Matters, and others, is a reality. That can only be good in the long term for consumers because real choices are always a good thing. Who ever "wins the war" is irrelevant as long as their product delivers what it promises and is reasonably priced, or justifiably priced.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Who ever "wins the war" is irrelevant as long as their product delivers what it promises and is reasonably priced, or justifiably priced.


And.... as long as one doesn't assume that a lifetime warranty doesn't mean a "free" upgrade because the external technology/requirement has changed. 
HDMI and HDCP has outlived it's so-called _convenience_. Don't place the entire blame on the cable(s).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> And.... as long as one doesn't assume that a lifetime warranty doesn't mean a "free" upgrade because the external technology/requirement has changed.
> HDMI and HDCP has outlived it's so-called _convenience_. Don't place the entire blame on the cable(s).


I agree. HDMI/HDCP has always been and always will be a p.i.t.a. I really dislike it. Lifetime warranties are nice as long as the company stays in business. Besides, I'd be happy with a 5-year warranty which includes replacement. At the rate video technology changes, we're gonna have to be replacing cables no later than that anyway if we want the latest bells and whistles.


----------



## Straykatt

Ratman said:


> Which do YOU recommend?


I currently have two Ruipro 33ft hdmi 2.1 gen 3C cables that they sent me. One of them I have in a 2.5 inch conduit with speaker wire and an hdmi 2.0 cable I use for earc. For what ever reason I get random dropouts when using the one in the conduit either sporadically or rarely. However the other cable I have on the floor against the wall that does not drop out at all. If you’re looking for a 30 ft 2.1 cable that is not going in a conduit and using it on a 3090 founders to a CX like me I would recommend the ruipro gen 3C.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I currently have two Ruipro 33ft hdmi 2.1 gen 3C cables that they sent me. One of them I have in a 2.5 inch conduit with speaker wire and an hdmi 2.0 cable I use for earc. For what ever reason I get random dropouts when using the one in the conduit either sporadically or rarely. However the other cable I have on the floor against the wall that does not drop out at all. If you’re looking for a 30 ft 2.1 cable that is not going in a conduit and using it on a 3090 founders to a CX like me I would recommend the ruipro gen 3C.


Maybe the cable in the conduit was slightly damaged during the installation or there is too tight of a bend somewhere. Or it's just a bad cable. It does happen.


----------



## christofin

Otto Pylot said:


> Maybe the cable in the conduit was slightly damaged during the installation or there is too tight of a bend somewhere. Or it's just a bad cable. It does happen.


Or the Gen 3C cable hasn't degraded yet. These cables get really hot both at the source and display ends and I noticed in all five that they sent me that the degradation got worse over time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Or the Gen 3C cable hasn't degraded yet. These cables get really hot both at the source and display ends and I noticed in all five that they sent me that the degradation got worse over time.


The cable getting hot is interesting, if not disconcerting. My testing didn't exhibit that but it was very short runs and not HDMI 2.1 pushed. Sounds like a heat dissipation issue which is no bueno. I've reached out to Ruipro on this but haven't received a response yet.


----------



## bobof

The Cable Matters 8K is notably cooler to the touch than the Ruipro 4K it replaces, which felt always pretty hot. It's not cold to the touch, but I'd be surprised if it's above 40'C. Though I'm not pushing 48G, these are like for like on the same signals, so the difference is notable. Of course, no experience of the Ruipro 8K.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> The Cable Matters 8K is notably cooler to the touch than the Ruipro 4K it replaces, which felt always pretty hot. It's not cold to the touch, but I'd be surprised if it's above 40'C. Though I'm not pushing 48G, these are like for like on the same signals, so the difference is notable. Of course, no experience of the Ruipro 8K.


I did talk to Ruipro today and they said that yes, unfortunately there were some faulty cables that made it to the marketplace, but we already knew that. I think it was mentioned but they are now offering a Lifetime Warranty and free replacment on all of their cables, which is nice but removing and reinstalling cables every now and then is still not good. They will also be releasing their own certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cables in about a month, if certification is something that one wants. At least there will be more choices for the consumer now which is always a good thing.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable getting hot is interesting, if not disconcerting. My testing didn't exhibit that but it was very short runs and not HDMI 2.1 pushed. Sounds like a heat dissipation issue which is no bueno. I've reached out to Ruipro on this but haven't received a response yet.


"very short runs" Will not matter.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I did talk to Ruipro today and they said that yes, unfortunately there were some faulty cables that made it to the marketplace, but we already knew that. I think it was mentioned but they are now offering a Lifetime Warranty and free replacment on all of their cables, which is nice but removing and reinstalling cables every now and then is still not good. They will also be releasing their own certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cables in about a month, if certification is something that one wants. At least there will be more choices for the consumer now which is always a good thing.


Who cares? Use conduit and get a new cable every few weeks.
Read bobof's posts and others.
I just hope they add the secret codes for my make and model of HDMI devices.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Who cares? Use conduit and get a new cable every few weeks.
> Read bobof's posts and others.
> I just hope they add the secret codes for my make and model of HDMI devices.


Who cares? Folks who want choices from reputable cable mfrs and not just relying on one mfr who offers what they need. And there are some who want ATC certified UHS HDMI cables for their own reasons. Cable Matters offers certified active cables, Ruipro will in about a month, and Zeskit and Ruipro both offer certified passive cables as well. Others will soon follow if not already.

The length of the run should not matter as you suggest but it appears in some cases that it might. I've never had a "hot" active cable. Is the heat just at the source connector end, the sink connector end, or both?

Yes, conduit is the only way to future proof your cabling if one can install it or already has it in place. A lot of folks don't.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> Use conduit and get a new cable every few weeks.


Works only if you get unlimited returns/upgrades with the warranty. (Not the conduit.... the cable)


----------



## Potrt

christofin said:


> Could you describe how to do this with Custom Resolution Utility? Thank you!
> 
> Edit - figured it out. I'm going to give this a shot and let's hope that it does iron out the disconnects, but I'm honestly doubting it.
> 
> Edit 2 - This did not fix my issue. Signal quality degrades after about 30 minutes of use until the signal drops, and the Ruipro cable is so hot it could fry an egg. I wonder if Ruipro just cheaped out on the heatsink or the plastic area where the HDMI cable actually plugs into the TV because all five of them they've sent me have done this -- they work for the first few weeks, then they get worse and worse over time until I can replicate the signal dropping out faster every time in any given gaming session.


Sorry for late reply, had busy week. Here is photo.


----------



## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable getting hot is interesting, if not disconcerting.


What I've seen (I THINK?) is that the available power is 5VDC at 50mA. This is only 0.25W. I have a hard time understanding that a PROPERLY DESIGNED HDMI connected device would get noticeably warm. What's going on here?

The power inserters seem to allow common 5VDC 0.50A or 2.5W. A 2 Watt resistor at rated power does get quite warm, even hot if ventilation does not exist. We used them to heat crystal ovens back in the day.


----------



## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> What I've seen (I THINK?) is that the available power is 5VDC at 50mA. This is only 0.25W. I have a hard time understanding that a PROPERLY DESIGNED HDMI connected device would get noticeably warm. What's going on here?
> 
> The power inserters seem to allow common 5VDC 0.50A or 2.5W. A 2 Watt resistor at rated power does get quite warm, even hot if ventilation does not exist. We used them to heat crystal ovens back in the day.


That’s why I asked if it was the connector because I tested hybrid fiber cables on my system and never felt any heat. Maybe the newer HDMI 2.1 devices kick out the heat when pushing 40Gbps or faster? HDMI ports are 5V/50mA output as you mentioned and the voltage inserters I’ve tested were 5V/500mA. Still not a lot of current. I agree, something odd is going on but I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say definitively that it’s the cables.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> Maybe the cable in the conduit was slightly damaged during the installation or there is too tight of a bend somewhere. Or it's just a bad cable. It does happen.


It’s possible but I highly doubt it, I was extremely careful during the install. There’s no bends more than the box they come in. I’ve spoken to their rep several times and I’ve been providing feedback for them. He said he’s sending all the info up which is good and said they’ll let me know from there. Sounds like there still going to improve it which if nothing else makes me feel better about my purchase.
I have also expressed how hot the hdmi connects get and I feel that has something to do with it or somehow the signal gets interference from other wires/cables. I know it’s not supposed to do that but it’s the only thing I can think of.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> It’s possible but I highly doubt it, I was extremely careful during the install. There’s no bends more than the box they come in. I’ve spoken to their rep several times and I’ve been providing feedback for them. He said he’s sending all the info up which is good and said they’ll let me know from there. Sounds like there still going to improve it which if nothing else makes me feel better about my purchase.
> I have also expressed how hot the hdmi connects get and I feel that has something to do with it or somehow the signal gets interference from other wires/cables. I know it’s not supposed to do that but it’s the only thing I can think of.


I would think that if the HDMI connectors are getting hot that could definitely affect signal integrity. Are both connectors hot or does it seem to be mostly on the source side or vice versa? I doubt if it's interference from other cables because even the most careful of us have cables that are close together or lay over each other and don't have heat issues.

Ruipro did say that there were some bad cables out in the wild so if it was a component failure that could be the reason.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> I would think that if the HDMI connectors are getting hot that could definitely affect signal integrity. Are both connectors hot or does it seem to be mostly on the source side or vice versa? I doubt if it's interference from other cables because even the most careful of us have cables that are close together or lay over each other and don't have heat issues.
> 
> Ruipro did say that there were some bad cables out in the wild so if it was a component failure that could be the reason.


I decided to switch back to the cable in the conduit and played about two hours of Death Stranding and had no issues. When I shut down my pc I check both the hdmi connectors on the back of the tv which was not warm at all. The other connector plugged into the graphics cards was extremely hot. It might be the aluminum or metal housing they use that absorbs the heat from the exhaust of the graphics cards and over time all that heat is absorbed. They should certainly use a different material on the port instead of metal/aluminum.


----------



## AVR Enthu

christofin said:


> I am starting to wonder if the HDMI 2.1 chipset is flawed in the C9, or on the Nvidia cards, and if that's why the CX only has 40gbps. If that's the case, I'm going to be very upset with LG as that's the entire reason I went with an LG OLED display, for 4k/120hz/10bit/444.


Hello members. I was wondering whether there is anyone who has got 48 Gbps connection with Nvidia GPUs working correctly with TV? Can anyone post a screenshot of HDMI diagnostic screen showing FRL6, pixel clock, colorimetry and all? I have not seen any successful FRL6 posts.

My set-up is with AMD's 6800XT and it currently outputs maximum FRL5 (40 Gbps) to LG C9. I also use certified cable from Maxonar, which has been working well so far. AMD's technical team are adamant that their new GPUs can output 48 Gbps signal, but there is no way to enable this through their software. Everytime I hit 12-bit 4K120 RGB, it goes back to 10-bit. The same happens with 12-bit 4K100Hz RGB.









So, is it cables, GPU or LG C9? Where is the rabbit?


----------



## AVR Enthu

christofin said:


> I'm going to be very upset with LG as that's the entire reason I went with an LG OLED display, 4k/120hz/10bit/444


You do not need 48 Gbps for that setting. It uses 40 Gbps. Unless you meant 12-bit 4K120 RGB/444.


----------



## AVR Enthu

reelfreak07 said:


> I just got my new Vizio 85" P Quantum X 1.5 weeks ago... All the cables functioned at 4k 120hz 10bit with 4:4:4 YCbCr color...
> I have a 3090 RTX GPU running to the tv as my main Display and have been playing games for many hours in 4k120 with no issues with picture or sound.


From what you are writing it seems that 40 Gbps signal works fine, which is FRL5. This TV is advertised as having two 48 Gbps ports, so in theory it should be able to receive FRL6 signal from GPU or other source if its EDID allows 1190 MHz pixel clock. Can you actually output 12-bit 4K120 RGB signal (FRL6) from RTX 3090 into TV? 

I am yet to see any screenshot of HDMI diagnostic screen from LG, Visio or other TV showing *FRL6* working correctly. Is there anyone who has been able to output 48 Gbps onto any TV?


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> AMD 5900 XT on the way


Did you mean 6900XT? 5900XT does not exist.


----------



## AVR Enthu

bobof said:


> Though I'm not pushing 48G, these are like for like on the same signals


Can you actually output 48 Gbps signal (FRL6) to TV? Any screenshots of HDMI diagnostic screen showing FRL6 signal?


----------



## AVR Enthu

christofin said:


> Edit 2 - This did not fix my issue.


CRU has not been shown to work properly with new TVs. There are many accounts of failed attempts to get VRR working correctly by using the tool. I tried it too. The maximum stable image was 4K30Hz, which defeats the purpose on LG C9 that can nativelly do VRR at 4K 40-60Hz.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> Ruipro and Monoprice and numerous other unknown brands are perfectly willing to sell active 8K 48 GBPS cables that they know are not. Has nothing to do with RTX 3000 cards or LG HDMI 2.1 TVs.


Have you been successful in achieving 48 Gbps FRL6 signal from GPU on TV?


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> But I have to wait until at least next year before I get a real AVR that's actually HDMI 2.1 48GBPS


Do not hold your breath for the ultimate speed solution coming too soon. It's highly uncertain now. We know that the second gen of HDMI 2.1 chips are installed in new Integra, Onkyo and Pioneer AVRs, coming out in a few months. Top models willl feature three 40 Gbps ports. Whether those chips are more reliable than the ones in Denon/Marantz from last year, we will find out in independent reviews. 

It's worth following interviews with Trinnov engineers and product managers, as they set the tone of what to expect. Trinnov is also testing the same second gen chips now, however they are very cautious in their statements about how good those chips are. They said they would only upgrade HDMI boards once they have full speed chips (third gen?) with all other features working properly together. So, it is unclear whether Trinnov would actually go with the chips currently installed in new Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra AVRs. Trinnov is not bullied by early tech releases (is this what we call beta-release?) preceded by marketing hype. They definitely want to get things right on their high-end devices. If that means delay until 2023, so be it.

Third gen of chips that could do 48 Gbps are being designed now and we do not know anything about them at the moment, unless there is an insider who would like to share some information with us. It is unclear what capabilities those chips would have and whether they would be ready for 2022 release.

Apart from port speed, chip manufacturers need to get other features right before claiming any high ground. VRR has been notoriously unreliable or not working. They will need to sort out entire video pass-through pipeline if anyone *sane* intends to insert AV receiver between their console/TV or GPU/monitor set-up without losing sync function. Another issue is VRR support on TV/monitor and in GPU drivers, which has been painful too. For 4K120 10/12-bit pipeline to work well, all three devices in the chain source-AVR-sink need to sing the same song perfectly: either HDMI VRR (which is also Gsync compatible) or FreeSync. Nvidia GPUs have this generic HDMI VRR driver, which makes LG TV gsync compatible. However, AMD's GPU do not have this driver at the moment (I checked it with AMD's support team), so can only support displays with FreeSync (Premium) label. AVRs will need to support all sync options for them to be matched with any configuration. If not, there will be more pain for customers...

No matter what cable is used, there will have to be really good reasons to break a direct video link source-sink and accept AV receiver as a reliable "middle man" for computer graphics pass-through. Currently, no single receiver is able to do that job properly and we are waiting to see whether new AVRs this year will. Certified cables are important in this context, of course, but *only *if all other things mentioned above are sorted out.

All eyes now are on independent reviews of new receivers tested with the two consoles, two sets of GPUs and new laptops with HDMI 2.1 ports. By the end of the year, there will be NUCs and new PC motherboards with HDMI 2.1 to be tested too. Video graphics pass-through has proven challenging for HDMI 2.1 devices. It's more complex than simply passing Dolby Vision and movie codecs. So, all customers need to be mindful of that and never trust marketing hype until relevant configurations are thoroughly tested.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Who cares? Folks who want choices from reputable cable mfrs and not just relying on one mfr who offers what they need. And there are some who want ATC certified UHS HDMI cables for their own reasons. Cable Matters offers certified active cables, Ruipro will in about a month, and Zeskit and Ruipro both offer certified passive cables as well. Others will soon follow if not already.
> 
> The length of the run should not matter as you suggest but it appears in some cases that it might. I've never had a "hot" active cable. Is the heat just at the source connector end, the sink connector end, or both?
> 
> Yes, conduit is the only way to future proof your cabling if one can install it or already has it in place. A lot of folks don't.


Nope you say it over and over, and you just said it again. Who cares? No cable will work, too many secrets codes for all the different HDMI devices and they'll just add new features next year. Just get conduit and buy what ever cable you can find and ignore posts and the title of the thread.

"The length of the run "should not matter" It will not matter.
"Ruipro will in about a month, and Zeskit and Ruipro both offer certified passive cables as well"

Reasons not to get a Ruipro and some others:
1. Otto Pylot keeps pushing, defending, chatting with them.
2. Tied for number 1, they have a 3' active cable.
3. They labeled cables 8k and 48gbps and they were not.
4. They don't work at 48gbps.
5. They seem to over heat as they seem to be overclocking a transceiver meant for 18gbps to pass data at 48gbps. 
6. They are green.
7. Did I mention they will sell you a 3' foot active 48gbps HDMI 2.1 cable, that most likely don't work at 48gbps? Do they have some $3000 lamp cord... I mean speaker wire I can buy from them?


----------



## Tanquen

gbynum said:


> What I've seen (I THINK?) is that the available power is 5VDC at 50mA. This is only 0.25W. I have a hard time understanding that a PROPERLY DESIGNED HDMI connected device would get noticeably warm. What's going on here?
> 
> The power inserters seem to allow common 5VDC 0.50A or 2.5W. A 2 Watt resistor at rated power does get quite warm, even hot if ventilation does not exist. We used them to heat crystal ovens back in the day.


"PROPERLY DESIGNED" It's not. Likely running faster than it should and hotter to send 48gbps vs 18gbps or less for HDMI 2.0 1080 and 4k.

All the display port cables at the back of my PC are 11°F warmer than the power cable (65°F) but they are right next to one of the Video card exhaust ports.

Maybe his idea of hot is different, maybe there is something else dumping heat at the cable ends.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> That’s why I asked if it was the connector because I tested hybrid fiber cables on my system and never felt any heat. Maybe the newer HDMI 2.1 devices kick out the heat when pushing 40Gbps or faster? HDMI ports are 5V/50mA output as you mentioned and the voltage inserters I’ve tested were 5V/500mA. Still not a lot of current. I agree, something odd is going on but I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say definitively that it’s the cables.


"because I tested hybrid fiber cables" You never tested 48gbps HDMI 2.1 cables at 48gbps? Thanks for posting the unrelated info in the "
*HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1*
"
thread.

"I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say definitively that it’s the cables. " It's the cables.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I would think that if the HDMI connectors are getting hot that could definitely affect signal integrity. Are both connectors hot or does it seem to be mostly on the source side or vice versa? I doubt if it's interference from other cables because even the most careful of us have cables that are close together or lay over each other and don't have heat issues.
> 
> Ruipro did say that there were some bad cables out in the wild so if it was a component failure that could be the reason.


"I would think that if the HDMI connectors are getting hot that could definitely affect signal integrity." No, just no.
The poorly designed transceiver chip that is running way faster than it should and not having any cooling other than the metal and plastic around it is most likely causing the heat.

"Ruipro did say" Why trust anything they say at this point? It is not a few (oopsie) bad cables out there.


----------



## Tanquen

Straykatt said:


> I decided to switch back to the cable in the conduit and played about two hours of Death Stranding and had no issues. When I shut down my pc I check both the hdmi connectors on the back of the tv which was not warm at all. The other connector plugged into the graphics cards was extremely hot. It might be the aluminum or metal housing they use that absorbs the heat from the exhaust of the graphics cards and over time all that heat is absorbed. They should certainly use a different material on the port instead of metal/aluminum.


It seems like the double whammy of the transmitting end taking power from the HDMI port and getting heat from the PC and it's GPU exhaust. Also, the fact they are using it way beyond it's original specs. So it's not working for a number of folks that need it's labeled specs and it also sounds like a fire hazard depending on ventilation and what is right next to it.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> Have you been successful in achieving 48 Gbps FRL6 signal from GPU on TV?


I think so. 4k-120Hz-444-12bit = Uncompressed Bandwidth: 48.11 Gbps


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> I am yet to see any screenshot of HDMI diagnostic screen from LG, Visio or other TV showing *FRL6* working correctly. Is there anyone who has been able to output 48 Gbps onto any TV?


There is one poster who is adamant that he's achieved 48Gbps but has not shown how that was accurately determined. I hope he's correct because that will give us a consumer setup to determine which cables can and can not handle 48Gbps, if it's the cables.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> I think so. 4k-120Hz-444-12bit = Uncompressed Bandwidth: 48.11 Gbps


I posted above my screenshot from HDMI diagnostic tool on TV showing 40 Gbps on LG C9 using AMD 6800XT card. FRL5 link was the maximum my GPU would output. Either TV is not able to accept higher signal, GPU is not able to output it or certified cable is not capable.

Woulds you, kindly, post a screenshot from your TV's HDMI diagnostic tool showing FRL6 video link of 48 Gbps?


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> Do not hold your breath for the ultimate speed solution coming too soon. It's highly uncertain now. We know that the second gen of HDMI 2.1 chips are installed in new Integra, Onkyo and Pioneer AVRs, coming out in a few months. Top models willl feature three 40 Gbps ports. Whether those chips are more reliable than the ones in Denon/Marantz from last year, we will find out in independent reviews.
> 
> It's worth following interviews with Trinnov engineers and product managers, as they set the tone of what to expect. Trinnov is also testing the same second gen chips now, however they are very cautious in their statements about how good those chips are. They said they would only upgrade HDMI boards once they have full speed chips (third gen?) with all other features working properly together. So, it is unclear whether Trinnov would actually go with the chips currently installed in new Onkyo, Pioneer and Integra AVRs. Trinnov is not bullied by early tech releases (is this what we call beta-release?) preceded by marketing hype. They definitely want to get things right on their high-end devices. If that means delay until 2023, so be it.
> 
> Third gen of chips that could do 48 Gbps are being designed now and we do not know anything about them at the moment, unless there is an insider who would like to share some information with us. It is unclear what capabilities those chips would have and whether they would be ready for 2022 release.
> 
> Apart from port speed, chip manufacturers need to get other features right before claiming any high ground. VRR has been notoriously unreliable or not working. They will need to sort out entire video pass-through pipeline if anyone *sane* intends to insert AV receiver between their console/TV or GPU/monitor set-up without losing sync function. Another issue is VRR support on TV/monitor and in GPU drivers, which has been painful too. For 4K120 10/12-bit pipeline to work well, all three devices in the chain source-AVR-sink need to sing the same song perfectly: either HDMI VRR (which is also Gsync compatible) or FreeSync. Nvidia GPUs have this generic HDMI VRR driver, which makes LG TV gsync compatible. However, AMD's GPU do not have this driver at the moment (I checked it with AMD's support team), so can only support displays with FreeSync (Premium) label. AVRs will need to support all sync options for them to be matched with any configuration. If not, there will be more pain for customers...
> 
> No matter what cable is used, there will have to be really good reasons to break a direct video link source-sink and accept AV receiver as a reliable "middle man" for computer graphics pass-through. Currently, no single receiver is able to do that job properly and we are waiting to see whether new AVRs this year will. Certified cables are important in this context, of course, but *only *if all other things mentioned above are sorted out.
> 
> All eyes now are on independent reviews of new receivers tested with the two consoles, two sets of GPUs and new laptops with HDMI 2.1 ports. By the end of the year, there will be NUCs and new PC motherboards with HDMI 2.1 to be tested too. Video graphics pass-through has proven challenging for HDMI 2.1 devices. It's more complex than simply passing Dolby Vision and movie codecs. So, all customers need to be mindful of that and never trust marketing hype until relevant configurations are thoroughly tested.


I'm not holding my breath and I did say at least next year.

I can live with the 40 GBPS as there is no 12-bit display and even if there was I don't think anybody could tell the difference. I'm not sure if they'll be any other good use of that extra 8 GBPS.

The main thing is that the initial release of HDMI 2.1 in AVRs was total garbage. It was not ready and it was not tested. On top of this (on most or all) there's only one HDMI 2.1 port so you can buy a $3,000+ AVR that's a very expensive HDMI switch and they give you one port and it has bugs. I'm sure they have a good reason (money) for only providing the one port but it never understood as it's not like an ethernet switch where you may need every port running at the same time, I'm just wanting to switch between more than one HDMI 2.1 device on my very expensive HDMI switch.

Yeah the whole Nvidia G-Sync thing is a total rip-off and a pain in the ass. They finally relent and let their video cards work with free sync displays and yet still magically figured out a way to push AMD out. I thought the lack of support was an LG thing not an AMD thing or now we are waiting on AMD to support a third VRR standard?

Yes, I'm on the hunt for a 45' 48 GBPS HDMI 2.1 cable that actually works so I can go direct from the PC to the TV and then eARC to the AVR. It's very sad that the very expensive HDMI switches that we have as AVRs don't do one of their main jobs very well. My Denon X6500H even has a built-in rudimentary HDMI cable test and they hide it from you. I just want to shake them sometimes.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> Did you mean 6900XT? 5900XT does not exist.


Yes, there is no 5900XT, I can't spell and am dyslexic. I also have a 5950x AMD CPU.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> I posted above my screenshot from HDMI diagnostic tool on TV showing 40 Gbps on LG C9 using AMD 6800XT card. FRL5 link was the maximum my GPU would output. Either TV is not able to accept higher signal, GPU is not able to output it or certified cable is not capable.
> 
> Woulds you, kindly, post a screenshot from your TV's HDMI diagnostic tool showing FRL6 video link of 48 Gbps?


I can take a look but I've not used those apps. I have looked at the LG77C9 HDMI diagnostic (I forget how to get into it) and it is buggy and will not show all info correctly. I spent hours messing with my OPPO clone and Dolby Vision. You can get the Dolby Vision logo on the screen and not be sending Dolby Vision, fun times.

The RTX 3080 will let me choose 10 and 12 bit color, that don't mean much as the TV and GPU could negotiate down and I'd not be surprised if the Nvidia control panel did not update. I like AMD and most of the "they have bad drivers" is none sense but I always have a hard time setting my Vega 64 to the color and chroma I want.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> I posted above my screenshot from HDMI diagnostic tool on TV showing 40 Gbps on LG C9 using AMD 6800XT card. FRL5 link was the maximum my GPU would output. Either TV is not able to accept higher signal, GPU is not able to output it or certified cable is not capable.
> 
> Woulds you, kindly, post a screenshot from your TV's HDMI diagnostic tool showing FRL6 video link of 48 Gbps?


Not sure about putting the app on the PC. I'll move my PC and mess with all that latter when the new Cable Matters HDMI 2.1 48 gbps cables get here.

Even if the GPU will send 4k-120Hz-444-12bit the TV will just strip out empty 12-bit color info that Windows or AMD padded into the data. I don't know of any Windows app that supports 12-bit color and there is no 12-bit display and I'll bet a dollar that no one could tell the difference in a 10-bit game and the same game running 12-bit. From 8-bit to 10-bit you already need certain setups to see the difference.

It took Newegg 3 days to put the label on so the 6900XT and RTX3060 should be here Monday.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> I'm not sure if they'll be any other good use of that extra 8 GBPS.


Yes, there will be good use of full available bandwidth, sooner rather than later. In fact, this year already. ASUS is releasing their new line of HDMI 2.1 monitors this spring. Others, like LG, Samsung and ViewSonic, will follow very soon. The market is expected to become competitive by the end of the year. There are at least a dozen of new high-end monitors with DP 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 being tested right now. Several of those 4K 144Hz 10-bit monitors will be able to saturate 48 Gbps. Another market segment that will take off within a year are 5K monitors. I plan to buy faster 5K monitor next year. We already have one release from LG, however with lower refresh rates. Faster models, 100-120hz, will arrive soon and will saturare 48 Gbps link too. TVs with 144Hz will follow in 2023. Those will compete with new monitors. Covid slowed down this process and pushed it from 2020 to 2021.

New ASUS 4K displays with HDMI 2.1

It's good to wait a bit for new AV receiver that will actually have minimum 2-3 full speed and fully functional in/out ports, for anyone intending to place AVR in the middle of video graphics chain. Strategic waiting for a year or so will definitely pay off and future proof AVR for at least 5-6 years, up until 2026-2027, if not longer. Nobody wants to buy an AVR and then change it in 2 years. It's not meant to work like that. It's not a mobile phone.

AVRs will predominantly focus on developing full speed HDMI boards and introducing some cosmetic changes in EDID (144Hz support for 4K), supported codecs, better displays, better network solutions, heat management, etc. No major breakthrough is expected in audio department for next 5-6 years. It is pretty mature now with Atmox, IMAX and DTS:X and their iterations. Software will support gradual improvements. Up to 2 more channels on average will be added in next few years to most models of AVRs, unless heating solutions are significantly upgraded to deal with thermal spread and allow more channels. It's pretty tough and crowded already in those rentagular boxes.

So, the major thing to wait for is full speed ports with working package of video features.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> Not sure about putting the app on the PC. I'll move my PC and mess with all that latter when the new Cable Matters HDMI 2.1 48 gbps cables get here.


You do not need to install anything on TV or PC to check any HDMI port connection. Here is the instruction for you. I photographed my own LG C9 connected to AMD GPU. It's pretty straight-forward. The HDMI tool is build into TV.











Tanquen said:


> Even if the GPU will send 4k-120Hz-444-12bit the TV will just strip out empty 12-bit color info that Windows or AMD padded into the data. I don't know of any Windows app that supports 12-bit color and there is no 12-bit display and I'll bet a dollar that no one could tell the difference in a 10-bit game and the same game running 12-bit


It does not really matter image-wise, at the moment. What matters is that both Nvidia and AMD claim that their GPUs can output 48 Gbps signal. This needs to be checked on TV panel. LG C9 has full speed ports and should be able to receive FRL6 signal with 48 Gbps and show it when you bring up HDMI diagnostic screen.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Found it. Something like this - 48 Gbps FRL6 signal from RTX 3080. So, yes, HDMI 2.1 cables need to be tested with full speed connection on capable devices and not get too hot when FRL changes between lower and higher speeds.


----------



## Ratman

Computer discussions can be found here:








Home Theater Computers


Computers as video processor, HDTV tuner, music jukebox, automation controller, internet/game machine, and more.




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Straykatt

Tanquen said:


> It seems like the double whammy of the transmitting end taking power from the HDMI port and getting heat from the PC and it's GPU exhaust. Also, the fact they are using it way beyond it's original specs. So it's not working for a number of folks that need it's labeled specs and it also sounds like a fire hazard depending on ventilation and what is right next to it.


Yeah that’s scary! I just emailed them if is possible the circuitry in the hdmi ports could catch fire.


----------



## Ratman

Let see..... depending on whom was emailed, the response will be:
The cable caused the fire!
The computer caused the fire!
The graphics card caused the fire!
The consumer caused the fire!

Is it possible to get back on track with the "theme" of the thread?


----------



## reelfreak07

AVR Enthu said:


> From what you are writing it seems that 40 Gbps signal works fine, which is FRL5. This TV is advertised as having two 48 Gbps ports, so in theory it should be able to receive FRL6 signal from GPU or other source if its EDID allows 1190 MHz pixel clock. Can you actually output 12-bit 4K120 RGB signal (FRL6) from RTX 3090 into TV?
> 
> I am yet to see any screenshot of HDMI diagnostic screen from LG, Visio or other TV showing *FRL6* working correctly. Is there anyone who has been able to output 48 Gbps onto any TV?


 I just switched it to 12bit in Nvidia control panel and it seems to be working fine.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> Computer discussions can be found here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home Theater Computers
> 
> 
> Computers as video processor, HDTV tuner, music jukebox, automation controller, internet/game machine, and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.avsforum.com


I am literate enough, thank you. If you look more carefully into what was written by other members, you will notice that there are devices behind cables that need to be considered when making judgements about cables' capabilities.

During discussions about cables, several members actually mentioned devices that those cables are meant to connect and realise their potential. 48 Gbps speed was mentioned quite frequently, so it's usefull to be aware of kind of devices that could actually use that cable speed to verify its marketing claim. There are very few devices that actually can, at the moment. It is good to know that you can have a good 48 Gbps cable, even if you cannot demonstrate its full speed with current home gear.

I did mention a few spontaneous bits loosely related the main topic, being inspired by members' thoughts, but Gosh, that's not the reason to send me to computer section right away. Relax.


----------



## AVR Enthu

reelfreak07 said:


> I just switched it to 12bit in Nvidia control panel and it seems to be working fine.


Pleased to see it's working as intended. Which cable do you use for this connection? Could you recommend it?


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> I am literate enough, thank you. If you look more carefully into what was written by other members, you will notice that there are devices behind cables that need to be considered when making judgements about cables' capabilities.
> 
> I did mention a few spontaneous bits loosely related the main topic, being inspired by members' thoughts, but my God, that's not the reason to send me to computer section right away. Relax.


I'm quite sure you are computer savvy.
I've looked carefully over the years on AVS.
Spontaneous bits should considered.
(Some folks do "x-treme" stuff with computers/gaming)
I'd like "computer" talk in a computer section.
I didn't "send" you to the computer section. Just a suggestion.
I am quite relaxed.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> Is it possible to get back on track with the "theme" of the thread?


We are on track. There is nothing to worry about. We needed to clarify a few things surrounding devices. Discussion about cables only makes sense if we are also aware of devices those cable are meant to connect, not only physical and electrical characteristics of cables. It would be futile to analyze the performance of cables in isolation from devices.

The title of the thread is "HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps & HDMI 2.1" - in order to determine this, we also need to know which devices support the ultimate speed and how different HDMI 2.1 features are transmitted through cables. My first question was rather relevant "Is it cables or devices?". I think several members reacted quite positively to my thoughts and probing questions, and shared their experience with using cables and devices. I hope this closes any doubt about whether it's relevant to mention devices in this thread. Of course it is relevant. Cables cannot work properly and reliably without those source, pass-through and sink devices.

If anyone is interested in proper and reliable short cable, I can share a certified one that I bought from Maxonar for £23. It works well since January. It never gets too hot. It is placed behind GPU's exhaust. I did not measure its temperature on TVs side. The company offers lifetime warranty and it feels quite robust. Some specs are below.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> It does not really matter image-wise, at the moment.


Right, if you are only going from 40 to 48gbps just for 12-bit color I don't think you'll ever see the difference even if you someday get a 12-bit display.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> We are on track. There is nothing to worry about.


"We" is not the issue. Are "you" on track? 
I have no worry other than having a good discussion deviate to "computer" dialog.
Just hoping to provide some direction for the PC enthusiasts without distraction from the TV folks.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Let see..... depending on whom was emailed, the response will be:
> The cable caused the fire!
> The computer caused the fire!
> The graphics card caused the fire!
> The consumer caused the fire!
> 
> Is it possible to get back on track with the "theme" of the thread?


There are a lot of posts that are not that informative and now there are a bunch more. I wish threads could have folders or something


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> There are a lot of posts that are not that informative and now there are a bunch more. I wish threads could have folders or something


Suggestions/requests to the Admins/mods would help fulfill your desire(s).

"Contact us:" at the bottom of the page(s) will get you started.


----------



## Tanquen

Ratman said:


> Suggestions/requests to the Admins/mods would help fulfill your desire(s).
> 
> "Contact us:" at the bottom of the page(s) will get you started.


It's not a big deal but I disagree with you that things have gone way off topic I think it's all related. I was commenting on how a lot of the post here and elsewhere aren't that helpful or informative, including yours and some of mine and everybody else's. So you are just worried about the exact content not matching the thread in the post or the post having anything helpful in them? I didn't know they could add folders and threads that would be cool. The main thread could be a list of four or five posts with cables people have bought and did work for them at the higher 40 or 48 Gbps.

You need a really dedicated OP to continue to update their original post and possibly even set aside a couple of the first few posts to break up helpful information.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> Right, if you are only going from 40 to 48gbps just for 12-bit color I don't think you'll ever see the difference even if you someday get a 12-bit display.


It's more complex than number of bits. The difference in user experience - how close TV or monitor image is to what human eye can see - will depend not only on good quality cable (proper and reliable - I have to say it for the sake of the thread, hahaha), but also on percentage of coverage for:
1. wide colour gamut (DCI-P3 and BT.2020 colourspaces)
2. luminance (how tall HDR is), which is part of BT. 2100 standard

Above features are important spec information that should be closely inspected when bying TV or PC display. Here is one diagram to roughly ilustrate trends in size and quality of image. Mainstream displays are edging towards 80-85% of BT.2020 and 95-100% of DCI-P3 coverage for wide colour gamut and 1500-2000 nits for HDR for high-end panels.
















10-bit panel could have much better image than 12-bit panel, if it covers wider colours, has deeper blacks and taller HDR. And vice versa, 12-bit panel could only be better if it covers those features more than 10-bit panel. The difference in user experience will depend on how companies implement those features together in their displays.

So, yes, great cables are important and should minimize any interference to deliver best quality images, but other features of panels cannot be underestimated either. It's an entire ecosystem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I guess if we're going to strictly stick to the title of this thread then the answer is there aren't any, yet. Some do and some don't, but there are just too many variables for someone to say "buy this cable because it will just work". I wish it were that simple.


----------



## reelfreak07

AVR Enthu said:


> Pleased to see it's working as intended. Which cable do you use for this connection? Could you recommend it?


It's the one from my post #1596, it's working well so far! I would recommend it.





Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific


Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> I guess if we're going to strictly stick to the title of this thread then the answer is there aren't any, yet. Some do and some don't, but there are just too many variables for someone to say "buy this cable because it will just work". I wish it were that simple.


Exactly. Cables work properly (or don't) in a wider context with relevant devices. The one from Cable Matters, recommended by* reelfreak07, *clearly works well for that set-up. The one I recommended also works well for time being. There have been other cables recommended too. Let's not forget that those cables are new on the market, so any reliability assessment will also depend on longer time perspective of repeated usage. 

Whoever has an expertize in cables to share, good and bad experience, I am more than happy to hear it and learn from it, as I do not have too deep knowledge about it. What I can contribute with is wider picture of ecosystem of devices and features that those cables need to operate within, which is equally useful and important. People here also want to know how "all things" work together with those cables.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> Ben Tan said:
> It's just a cable dude, it's not securing a future for your children.
> When or if it dies, find a solution for that. It's a man made product after all, what's the big deal?
> Tanquen
> Dude... I know... It's getting painful...


Hahaha, hilarious! Love it! I guess this says it all.

For the thread to stay alive and interesting, it's got to be about members' desire to exchange thoughts and experiences around usage of cables in wider context of their home theatre and entertainment gear. This is where cables fulfil their role, so it's wonderful to read about all those configurations of devices and features that cables are meant to connect, convey and bring us joy or pain. I want to hear more about connections between TVs, AV receivers, PCs, monitors, GPUs, consoles and laptops. Those are currently the only HDMI 2.1 devices that actually matter for the cables in this very thread, so all configurations are welcomed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Cable Matters is relatively new to the hybrid fiber market, especially with an ATC certified cable. And from the early reports, they do seem to perform as expected so time will tell how reliable they are. Hopefully they will be proven to be. Ruipro is one of the other hybrid fiber cable mfrs that is recommended, mostly because they were one of the first to offer "4k" cables that appeared to work well for long distances and the expectation was that their "8k" cables would perform as well. Reliability reports are a mixed bag as of late so we'll see.

Ruipro, Zeskit, and Maxonar offer certified UHS HDMI cables that are passive for the folks who have shorter runs so it is getting better, but there's still a ways to go. Choices are getting better but it will still come down to components used, setup, and unfortunately a bit of trial and error.


----------



## Chris Kempa

I received my 85ft 2.1 Gen3C from Ruipro. Works Perfect! I actually wanted a smaller cable, as I have rearranged my setup. They send a 33ft free of charge and it works perfectly. Zero issues running 4k/120hz 4/4/4 HDR. I now have this extra 85ft cable that works great but is way too long to be practical. If anyone is interested in purchasing I can ship it out to you. Just send me a PM


----------



## Otto Pylot

Chris Kempa said:


> I received my 85ft 2.1 Gen3C from Ruipro. Works Perfect! I actually wanted a smaller cable, as I have rearranged my setup. They send a 33ft free of charge and it works perfectly. Zero issues running 4k/120hz 4/4/4 HDR. I now have this extra 85ft cable that works great but is way too long to be practical. If anyone is interested in purchasing I can ship it out to you. Just send me a PM


85' is impressive. So again, nothing is definitive but I'm glad you have one, and apparently two cables that work.


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> It's not a big deal but I disagree with you that things have gone way off topic I think it's all related.


Whatever. That's great. enjoy the hobby and digest the help/suggestions/experience from the other "old" posters


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> It's not a big deal but I disagree... that things have gone way off topic I think it's all related.


Of course it's related. You are right. There are only a handful of HDMI 2.1 devices, each one with a few models that need new cables. It's the context of interaction between those devices and HDMI 2.1 features that we want to examine when considering which cables on offer are most suitable. It's a new tech, cables are part of it and members want to learn and exchange useful information. Everybody contributes with a few bits of their matching and connectivity experience and want to ask and learn more. Some even promote or resell certain brands, which is fine too, as soon as it's not pushed upon us too much, too frequently. This is not a marketing or sales thread either. Balance in The Force is important.

There is no such thing as "TV folks" or "computer folks". Those artificial categories are long gone and people have variety of media devices at home. There is almost no household without TV and PC or laptop in the developed world today. This thread is for everybody with any HDMI 2.1 devices needing good connections. Have I got the title of this thread wrong? Am I missing something? Is any "device tribe" more entitled to use the thread? Nonsense.

Home theatre and entertainment are more diverse nowadays than ever before. Members here buy new cables to match PCs with TV or monitor, consoles with TV or monitor, AV receivers with all of those devices, laptops with TV, etc. We will have HDMI 2.1 NUCs and projectors soon, so we can expect those stories too. New tech is complex and several things need to be considered together with cables. By talking about cables, we also exchange very useful information about the quality of devices, configurations that work or not, troubleshooting, etc. A tone of useful information is exchanged about HDMI 2.1 features pipelined through those cables; some more relevant for some members, some for others, but it's HDMI 2.1 "cable community". We all know that the new tech is causing a lot of serious and teething issues, and cables are integral part of those stories. We need to know how well cables bring those features together.

Beside reliable brands, I also want to hear which cables are good to connect HDMI 2.1 laptop to TV and enjoy a bigger image. Does it work at all? Does the cable pass-through Gsync, etc.? I want to hear which cables are good to get best quality image from graphics card or console both on TV and monitor. Will chromaticity suffer if certain cables are used? Will there be banding, stuttering, jittrer or other artifacts, etc. Here, useful information about panel colour and image stability are exchanged too. Why not? Apart from which cable to use, member can also learn a useful thing about colour. Can cable handle 48 Gbps signal, or only 32 Gbps, etc, etc. Which device to test the cable speed with? Is AV receiver cable speed test good enough? Which cables work well with new AV receivers (those boxes have not had a fortunate start recently, eh!)? Perhaps none of cables work in this case, because some new receivers cause black screen, cannot pass through reliably HDMI 2.1 features, etc. It's super useful to find out about it as a by-product of information about cables. It can save someone a lot of money wasted on HDMI 2.1 device. And more. The cables unite all those stories. By exposing how well cables work, we are also exposing strengths and weaknesses of available devices connected by them. It cannot be more useful than that.

Is this how members would like to see this thread? Being equally informative, interesting and engaging?


----------



## Otto Pylot

@AVR Enthu Whew! That was a long post but makes sense. I sometimes wish we could go back to the days when almost any cable would work with anything. Such is progress. I do place some of the blame on the device marketeers though, pushing their new products before I really think they are ready for general consumption. Gamers are the ones who are taking the big hit so far, partially because of the promises the mfrs's have made with their new devices without considering how they will be connected and with what. I've said it before but better collaboration between the device mfrs and cable mfrs could go a long way in mitigating some of the problems and confusion in the marketplace.


----------



## Tanquen

Chris Kempa said:


> I received my 85ft 2.1 Gen3C from Ruipro. Works Perfect! I actually wanted a smaller cable, as I have rearranged my setup. They send a 33ft free of charge and it works perfectly. Zero issues running 4k/120hz 4/4/4 HDR. I now have this extra 85ft cable that works great but is way too long to be practical. If anyone is interested in purchasing I can ship it out to you. Just send me a PM


I'd wonder about how well the eARC works with the longer cables as the transceivers are one direction so I think all the hybrid cables are using regular wire for the audio return channel and the longer ones have issues with that.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> It's more complex than number of bits. The difference in user experience - how close TV or monitor image is to what human eye can see - will depend not only on good quality cable (proper and reliable - I have to say it for the sake of the thread, hahaha), but also on percentage of coverage for:
> 1. wide colour gamut (DCI-P3 and BT.2020 colourspaces)
> 2. luminance (how tall HDR is), which is part of BT. 2100 standard
> 
> Above features are important spec information that should be closely inspected when bying TV or PC display. Here is one diagram to roughly ilustrate trends in size and quality of image. Mainstream displays are edging towards 80-85% of BT.2020 and 95-100% of DCI-P3 coverage for wide colour gamut and 1500-2000 nits for HDR for high-end panels.
> View attachment 3121606
> View attachment 3121614
> 
> 
> 10-bit panel could have much better image than 12-bit panel, if it covers wider colours, has deeper blacks and taller HDR. And vice versa, 12-bit panel could only be better if it covers those features more than 10-bit panel. The difference in user experience will depend on how companies implement those features together in their displays.
> 
> So, yes, great cables are important and should minimize any interference to deliver best quality images, but other features of panels cannot be underestimated either. It's an entire ecosystem.


You got a couple of different things going on there. The display's ability to show a correct color is one thing the number of different levels of red blue or green that can be displayed is another. All things being equal on two displays of equal ability, black levels, color depth, brightness so on, I do not believe anyone will be able to tell the difference between 10-bit and 12-bit. Blu-rays have always been 8-bit and then the new 4K UHD Blu-rays are 10-bit and I cannot tell the difference. You'd have to have two still images side-by-side and even then I don't think you'd be able to tell. The main way you can tell is with some areas of shading in similar colors you'll get banding with 8-bit. I see it a lot on studio logos etc. We're all in a smaller group that even care about any of this most people are happy with streaming content at 1080p even though it's noticeably worse than a 1080p Blu-ray. 4K streaming can look a little sharper than 1080p streaming but most people don't notice and don't care. 

Different people are going to want different things out of the data pipe or bandwidth that HDMI 2.1 can provide. Some people are going to have a 1080p display and they're going to want to push 120, 144, 300 frames per second and would willing to deal with Chroma subsampling and a lower color depth to get it. I guess with the extra 8 GBPS that gives you a little more flexibility and I totally would want it but I don't think there's going to be anything game changing.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> Of course it's related. You are right. There are only a handful of HDMI 2.1 devices, each one with a few models that need new cables. It's the context of interaction between those devices and HDMI 2.1 features that we want to examine when considering which cables on offer are most suitable. It's a new tech, cables are part of it and members want to learn and exchange useful information. Everybody contributes with a few bits of their matching and connectivity experience and want to ask and learn more. Some even promote or resell certain brands, which is fine too, as soon as it's not pushed upon us too much, too frequently. This is not a marketing or sales thread either. Balance in The Force is important.
> 
> There is no such thing as "TV folks" or "computer folks". Those artificial categories are long gone and people have variety of media devices at home. There is almost no household without TV and PC or laptop in the developed world today. This thread is for everybody with any HDMI 2.1 devices needing good connections. Have I got the title of this thread wrong? Am I missing something? Is any "device tribe" more entitled to use the thread? Nonsense.
> 
> Home theatre and entertainment are more diverse nowadays than ever before. Members here buy new cables to match PCs with TV or monitor, consoles with TV or monitor, AV receivers with all of those devices, laptops with TV, etc. We will have HDMI 2.1 NUCs and projectors soon, so we can expect those stories too. New tech is complex and several things need to be considered together with cables. By talking about cables, we also exchange very useful information about the quality of devices, configurations that work or not, troubleshooting, etc. A tone of useful information is exchanged about HDMI 2.1 features pipelined through those cables; some more relevant for some members, some for others, but it's HDMI 2.1 "cable community". We all know that the new tech is causing a lot of serious and teething issues, and cables are integral part of those stories. We need to know how well cables bring those features together.
> 
> Beside reliable brands, I also want to hear which cables are good to connect HDMI 2.1 laptop to TV and enjoy a bigger image. Does it work at all? Does the cable pass-through Gsync, etc.? I want to hear which cables are good to get best quality image from graphics card or console both on TV and monitor. Will chromaticity suffer if certain cables are used? Will there be banding, stuttering, jittrer or other artifacts, etc. Here, useful information about panel colour and image stability are exchanged too. Why not? Apart from which cable to use, member can also learn a useful thing about colour. Can cable handle 48 Gbps signal, or only 32 Gbps, etc, etc. Which device to test the cable speed with? Is AV receiver cable speed test good enough? Which cables work well with new AV receivers (those boxes have not had a fortunate start recently, eh!)? Perhaps none of cables work in this case, because some new receivers cause black screen, cannot pass through reliably HDMI 2.1 features, etc. It's super useful to find out about it as a by-product of information about cables. It can save someone a lot of money wasted on HDMI 2.1 device. And more. The cables unite all those stories. By exposing how well cables work, we are also exposing strengths and weaknesses of available devices connected by them. It cannot be more useful than that.
> 
> Is this how members would like to see this thread? Being equally informative, interesting and engaging?


The cable is just a data pipe and it doesn't care anything about Dolby Vision or VRR or HDR or Dolby Atmos or any of that stuff. It's just got an amount of data packets size and speed that it can transmit between devices. The more bandwidth the more stuff you can do. If the cable is a poor quality and it can't support 40 or 48 GBPS then there may be some features that you can't use but those would be the features dealing with higher resolution higher refresh rate and more colored depth for the most part. I still see ads with cables about how this particular one supports this particular HDMI feature (3D or HDR) and most of its nonsense along with the post about how much sharper and brighter the images now that they're using a different cable, that's just not how it work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I'd wonder about how well the eARC works with the longer cables as the transceivers are one direction so I think all the hybrid cables are using regular wire for the audio return channel and the longer ones have issues with that.


Yes. Hybrid fiber cables have 8 solid copper wires that handle the low bandwidth requirements of ARC, EDID, HDCP, etc similar to the HDMI 13-19 and +1 lines.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> You do not need to install anything on TV or PC to check any HDMI port connection. Here is the instruction for you. I photographed my own LG C9 connected to AMD GPU. It's pretty straight-forward. The HDMI tool is build into TV.
> View attachment 3121515
> 
> 
> 
> It does not really matter image-wise, at the moment. What matters is that both Nvidia and AMD claim that their GPUs can output 48 Gbps signal. This needs to be checked on TV panel. LG C9 has full speed ports and should be able to receive FRL6 signal with 48 Gbps and show it when you bring up HDMI diagnostic screen.


In the US I guess it's Channel and not Program in the menu but I do get 12-bit and a FRL rate of 6. The cables do look nice, have small end housings and are thinner than all my other HDMI cables so it's all down hill from here. 

Running 4k-120Hz-444-12bit

______Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet
*__*


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GMC7C91/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



The the source end started at 93 °F. I'll be doing all my TV watching through the PC and see if all remains stable.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> I do not believe anyone will be able to tell the difference between 10-bit and 12-bit. Blu-rays have always been 8-bit and then the new 4K UHD Blu-rays are 10-bit and I cannot tell the difference. You'd have to have two still images side-by-side and even then I don't think you'd be able to tell. The main way you can tell is with some areas of shading in similar colors you'll get banding with 8-bit


We do not have 12-bit panels in the mainstream to be able to test our eyes, but the difference may be imperceivable, agreed. For 8-bit and 10-bit, you are right that shades and banding can see seen, especially in scenes where one colour dominates, for example the sky. I can clearly see banding at home.



Tanquen said:


> I guess with the extra 8 GBPS that gives you a little more flexibility and I totally would want it but I don't think there's going to be anything game changing.


True. Flexibility is always good though, especially for AVRs, as those are meant to stay home theatre hub for 5-6 years.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> I still see ads with cables about how this particular one supports this particular HDMI feature (3D or HDR) and most of its nonsense along with the post about how much sharper and brighter the images now that they're using a different cable, that's just not how it work.


True. That's why we are here to uncover marketing claims, sift through offers and recommend good cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> True. That's why we are here to uncover marketing claims, sift through offers and recommend good cables.


Cable marketing and product descriptions are probably written by lawyers who know just how far to go with their claims. In my opinion, these claims border on misleading and false advertising. But, the majority of the purchasing public is not as OCD/anal as most of us are here, so they will buy into just about anything. That's who the marketeers are targeting.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable marketing and product descriptions are probably written by lawyers who know just how far to go with their claims. In my opinion, these claims border on misleading and false advertising. But, the majority of the purchasing public is not as OCD/anal as most of us are here, so they will buy into just about anything. That's who the marketeers are targeting.


Those lawyers are often amateurs who really do not know how much to push. We know this from class action law suits and complaints executed by consumer protection and standards authorities. Here is one fresh against Apple from UK.
Apple to change advertisement of HDR display
The only problem is that authorities have national reach, so Apple had to change their advert in the UK only. If any member here from the US has a spare moment, please report this very case to your federal/state consumer authority, so that Apple if forced to change ridiculous marketing claim "far beyond HDR". They are laughable...

I would not say "OCD/****". Many of us are simply tech savvy and see through marketing BS. Many of use also know where to compain and which authorities could assist. This helps entire consumer market play better the cat-and-mouse game with companies.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> Those lawyers are often amateurs who really do not know how much to push.


Lawyers are not "amateurs". They provide a service since they earned a law degree.



> I would not say "OCD/****".


Perhaps. Opinions are free.


> Many of us are simply tech savvy and see through marketing BS.


But..... everyone is not as tech savvy as others.

What cables work best for you as requested in the title of this thread?


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> What cables work best for you as requested in the title of this thread?


I mentioned one company yesterday - Maxonar. It is the only company at the moment I bought several cables from. What about yourself?


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> I mentioned one company yesterday - Maxonar. It is the only company at the moment I bought several cables from. What about yourself?


If it works well for you, with your particular configuration/setup/gear/requirements.... great!
Thanks for sharing your experience(s). Hopefully that may help others with similar setups as yours.


----------



## AVR Enthu

I am encouraging you not to pick up selectively parts of posts out of their original context, as those parts then lose their meaning and are easily misinterpreted. If you continue to do so in this way, the thread is obviously going to divert from cables more often than not, so that clarification can be issued.


Ratman said:


> Lawyers are not "amateurs". They provide a service since they earned a law degree.


I said: 'lawyers are *often* amateurs...' . It's an important word missing in your comment. I never said 'all laywers'. No profession is sacred and there are brilliant professionals, as well as amateurs in all professions. In addition, providing a service is fine, as soon as it is not misleading the public or on the 'edge'. Providing a service can therefore be judged as good service, lip service, unlawful service, etc. It's complex. Finally, earning a degree in any field does not warrant professionalism and good service. There are degrees from reputable institutions and degrees from less noble origin. It's also complex. It goes into a different topic, which is quality of education, which we do not need here. If you wish to discuss it more, drop me a PM.



Ratman said:


> But..... everyone is not as tech savvy as others.


I agree with you, but this statement is meaningless. I clearly mentioned that tech savvy individuals can help by resorting to consumer protection institutions, writing to relevant authorities, etc. to help all of us consumers, once they discover rogue practices by companies. You are not going to get a street protest because a cable is marketed in a misleading way, but a tech savvy person will know where to address a specific complaint, as it was the case with Apple's lies about displays. Again, I am happy to discuss this via PM, if you wish to, otherwise please do not quote parts of thoughts, outside of their original context, as this will confuse people and waste time to clarify.

Small diversion, back to cables.


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## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> Small diversion, back to cables


Hopefully


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> Those lawyers are often amateurs who really do not know how much to push. We know this from class action law suits and complaints executed by consumer protection and standards authorities. Here is one fresh against Apple from UK.
> Apple to change advertisement of HDR display
> The only problem is that authorities have national reach, so Apple had to change their advert in the UK only. If any member here from the US has a spare moment, please report this very case to your federal/state consumer authority, so that Apple if forced to change ridiculous marketing claim "far beyond HDR". They are laughable...
> 
> I would not say "OCD/****". Many of us are simply tech savvy and see through marketing BS. Many of use also know where to compain and which authorities could assist. This helps entire consumer market play better the cat-and-mouse game with companies.


Amateur or not, they are still licensed lawyers who specialize in business law (which would cover product claims, etc). I happen to have a friend who is just that and you'd be surprised at how much leeway they can get away with and still stay within the laws governing product claims. Sometimes they get caught, most times they don't.

The OCD comment was not meant as a slight to anyone who is diagnosed (including myself). It was meant as a statement to those of us here who want the best out of our equipment and that goes from settings, calibrations, to connectivity. Far and above what the majority of users of HDTV equipment would even consider. I know quite a few folks who just love the Demo Mode of tv's .

While these particular sub-threads don't discuss directly which cables work where, they do relate to cables in general as to the various types of cables and how they are marketed, which results in the myriad of questions here and elsewhere along the lines of "I bought this cable, why doesn't it work". There are lots of folks who come here for answers, with a wide range of home theater experience covering all aspects, from home theaters to HTPC to gaming. And a lot of them either don't post, they don't want to enter into a conversation, or have other reasons. That's why some us, myself included, repeat points for the lurkers who just want to get educated but don't know where to start.

Understanding the technical underpinnings of 4k HDR and beyond is an important aspect, but also understanding how these products are marketed and why is just as important because one starts by purchasing something. And if you don't know the traps and what to look out for, one could never find their way out of the rabbit hole.


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## christofin

I received my Cable Matters cable today and results are initially promising. No dropouts or any issues. Atmos is still broken on Windows 10 with the 3080FE with eARC, but I wasn't expecting the cable to fix that issue as that seems to be a driver or firmware issue...

The cable itself is a nice braided material and feels premium... not to insult Ruipro but the turquoise just never looked great. The source end still gets pretty hot but I didn't have any dropouts today, I'll keep stress testing it throughout the week and will keep updating this thread.


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## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I received my Cable Matters cable today and results are initially promising. No dropouts or any issues. Atmos is still broken on Windows 10 with the 3080FE with eARC, but I wasn't expecting the cable to fix that issue as that seems to be a driver or firmware issue...
> 
> The cable itself is a nice braided material and feels premium... not to insult Ruipro but the turquoise just never looked great. The source end still gets pretty hot but I didn't have any dropouts today, I'll keep stress testing it throughout the week and will keep updating this thread.


My Cable Matters cable is working well also. I need to try out eARC, maybe this weekend. 

I also had Atmos dropouts in the Windows 10. I've only had one game that used it and I fixed it once with system restore and another time with a Windows reinstall. No clue what sets it off.


----------



## bobof

christofin said:


> I received my Cable Matters cable today and results are initially promising. No dropouts or any issues. Atmos is still broken on Windows 10 with the 3080FE with eARC, but I wasn't expecting the cable to fix that issue as that seems to be a driver or firmware issue...
> 
> The cable itself is a nice braided material and feels premium... not to insult Ruipro but the turquoise just never looked great. The source end still gets pretty hot but I didn't have any dropouts today, I'll keep stress testing it throughout the week and will keep updating this thread.


I think graphics cards are a particular problem for heating up HDMI connectors, and really the issue is one of the thermal design of the graphics card. Having the exhaust directly out over the HDMI connector is never going to be conducive to low connector temperatures. You could always improvise some kind of duct to direct airflow away from the connectors.


----------



## christofin

bobof said:


> I think graphics cards are a particular problem for heating up HDMI connectors, and really the issue is one of the thermal design of the graphics card. Having the exhaust directly out over the HDMI connector is never going to be conducive to low connector temperatures. You could always improvise some kind of duct to direct airflow away from the connectors.


I agree, especially when Ampere cards can pull almost 400 watts at max load. I might try to point a desk fan at the cable (but not pointing into the back of the PC case) to see if it helps.


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## Tanquen

bobof said:


> I think graphics cards are a particular problem for heating up HDMI connectors, and really the issue is one of the thermal design of the graphics card. Having the exhaust directly out over the HDMI connector is never going to be conducive to low connector temperatures. You could always improvise some kind of duct to direct airflow away from the connectors.





christofin said:


> I agree, especially when Ampere cards can pull almost 400 watts at max load. I might try to point a desk fan at the cable (but not pointing into the back of the PC case) to see if it helps.


So far the active Cable Matters cable has only been a few degrees hotter than the three display port cables out the back of the RTX 3080.


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## AVR Enthu

Some GPUs have better vent solutions than others. GPU choice may help with temperature of connectors and cables.

more airless air



















christofin said:


> I agree, especially when Ampere cards can pull almost 400 watts at max load. I might try to point a desk fan at the cable (but not pointing into the back of the PC case) to see if it helps.


This does not sound elegant. Another external device to take care of. If you already want such solution, buy small and silent 4-pin PWM fan from Noctua (80 or 60 mm) and install it inside PC case, just below GPU, space permitting. If you can position it at 45 degree angle, as shown below, it will blow air directly onto connectors on cables. You save space outside of PC case, no additional power cables and another free socket. 
Noctua fans


----------



## thegongshow

Hi. Been reading last few months trying to catch up on all the new things and the posts here have been really helpful, so thanks! I'm in the middle of finishing my basement and I'm getting close to drywall in the next few months before buying some gear.

I'm not a gamer (my son might be in a few years), but I do love watching movies, so in the basement I've carved out a room to be the AV/media room. Nothing huge, but as I read this, it would seem that I should install conduits from my media rack to the speakers, sub and TV (about a 25' run at most). Initially planned on a 4k OLED TV and connected to a 7.2 AVR with eARC, with a Roku player mostly, but depending on when I finish, might consider 8k OLED TV (might be 6-8 mos out before I'm ready to buy gear).

Before I drywall, reading this thread with great interest because I know I can't future proof any technology, but I can try to install the right size conduit that will allow me to pull future cables. I do have some limited space to pull a bunch of conduits for the subs, speakers and such, pretty straightforward in terms of conduit diameter, but this HDMI cable thing has me perplexed as to what diameter conduit I should install. I contacted cable matters about the diameter of the certified active cables and they gave me a size of .55", which you'd think a 1" conduit with a few 90 degree bends would be ok, but.... I had some 1" electrical PVC conduit lying around and some meaty HDMI cables pull through it with zero resistance (going about 25'). Other HDMI cables that have something the size of a booster attached or a stress bulge (sorry have no idea what it's called) to the cable bind up in the 90 degree sweep.

I don't have more than 2" for and HDMI conduit and so for those of you that have the cable matters 2.1 active cables, what size conduit should I consider installing? I don't think with the current plan I need the 2.1 active cables today, but I might down the road and I'd like to get the HDMI conduit right before sealing them up in the walls and ceilings.


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## Otto Pylot

thegongshow said:


> Hi. Been reading last few months trying to catch up on all the new things and the posts here have been really helpful, so thanks! I'm in the middle of finishing my basement and I'm getting close to drywall in the next few months before buying some gear.
> 
> I'm not a gamer (my son might be in a few years), but I do love watching movies, so in the basement I've carved out a room to be the AV/media room. Nothing huge, but as I read this, it would seem that I should install conduits from my media rack to the speakers, sub and TV (about a 25' run at most). Initially planned on a 4k OLED TV and connected to a 7.2 AVR with eARC, with a Roku player mostly, but depending on when I finish, might consider 8k OLED TV (might be 6-8 mos out before I'm ready to buy gear).
> 
> Before I drywall, reading this thread with great interest because I know I can't future proof any technology, but I can try to install the right size conduit that will allow me to pull future cables. I do have some limited space to pull a bunch of conduits for the subs, speakers and such, pretty straightforward in terms of conduit diameter, but this HDMI cable thing has me perplexed as to what diameter conduit I should install. I contacted cable matters about the diameter of the certified active cables and they gave me a size of .55", which you'd think a 1" conduit with a few 90 degree bends would be ok, but.... I had some 1" electrical PVC conduit lying around and some meaty HDMI cables pull through it with zero resistance (going about 25'). Other HDMI cables that have something the size of a booster attached or a stress bulge (sorry have no idea what it's called) to the cable bind up in the 90 degree sweep.
> 
> I don't have more than 2" for and HDMI conduit and so for those of you that have the cable matters 2.1 active cables, what size conduit should I consider installing? I don't think with the current plan I need the 2.1 active cables today, but I might down the road and I'd like to get the HDMI conduit right before sealing them up in the walls and ceilings.


A lot of folks use a 1.5" - 2.0" conduit (Smurf Tube) which allows for plenty of clearance for HDMI connector ends and extra cabling. What ever cable you decide upon, install a pull string, be very mindful of bend radius (no sharp 90º bends) and pull from the cable body, NOT the connector ends. Give yourself some extra length so you don't place any undue strain on the HDMI ports. You could also lay is some solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 cable, non-CCA/CCS and not pre-terminated ethernet patch cable as well. That way you could extend an ethernet connection to hard wire your HTS (that's what I do) by terminating with a punch down keystone jack or extend an HDMI connection by terminating with HDBT if that will work better for now or in the future. Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling if you don't have easy access to it.

The most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. This is especially true if you go the active cable route (hybrid fiber). Whichever cable you decide to go with, lay it out on the first and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure that it meets your needs and expectations.


----------



## thegongshow

Thanks Otto! Will shoot for 2" conduit, but no less than 1.5". Ironically I have several hundred feet of Hubbell CAT6a UTP that is not CCA left over from networking the house. As a data guy, 6 or 6A is only rated for 10gbs, so I guess AV over Ethernet is a different animal able to get up to or beyond the current 2.1 specs? Feel like I am learning this stuff all over again. Last time I looked at "surround sound" was in the late 80s, very early 90s which I think was basically delaying the sound to the rear channels for the appearance of surround with a map needed for cable routes needed between devices.... Now it's Dolby Atmos, a good AVR and HDMI. Talk about a crash course, up until about a year ago I was still thinking I needed RCA as a possibility, then I saw many sets don't even have them anymore, and then the understanding of 5/7.1 vs 5/7.2 and how the subs now connect via a single output. Now that I know I just need a good AVR, HDMI via ARC/eARC and having a good direction on conduit size is really a big help. Last thing I wanna do is go too narrow and seal up that mistake. Also, same as data, I always use sweeping 90s, never sudden 90s. Also, excellent suggestion on dry run before pulling in the conduit. Seems from what I've been reading, particularly if you are a gamer with video cards, it sounds a lot more fickle than a streaming device/source-> AVR-> HDMI, but still I like the dry run suggestion!


----------



## Otto Pylot

thegongshow said:


> Thanks Otto! Will shoot for 2" conduit, but no less than 1.5". Ironically I have several hundred feet of Hubbell CAT6a UTP that is not CCA left over from networking the house. As a data guy, 6 or 6A is only rated for 10gbs, so I guess AV over Ethernet is a different animal able to get up to or beyond the current 2.1 specs? Feel like I am learning this stuff all over again. Last time I looked at "surround sound" was in the late 80s, very early 90s which I think was basically delaying the sound to the rear channels for the appearance of surround with a map needed for cable routes needed between devices.... Now it's Dolby Atmos, a good AVR and HDMI. Talk about a crash course, up until about a year ago I was still thinking I needed RCA as a possibility, then I saw many sets don't even have them anymore, and then the understanding of 5/7.1 vs 5/7.2 and how the subs now connect via a single output. Now that I know I just need a good AVR, HDMI via ARC/eARC and having a good direction on conduit size is really a big help. Last thing I wanna do is go too narrow and seal up that mistake. Also, same as data, I always use sweeping 90s, never sudden 90s. Also, excellent suggestion on dry run before pulling in the conduit. Seems from what I've been reading, particularly if you are a gamer with video cards, it sounds a lot more fickle than a streaming device/source-> AVR-> HDMI, but still I like the dry run suggestion!


The solid core CAT-6 that I use is rated at 550Mhz ( 155Mbps, OC-3) so it works just fine over long distances for hard wiring your system via ethernet. It should work fine for HDBT as well but that would need further investigating as there are still some limitations with HDBT even with the new VS3000 (?) chipsets.

I have two 5.1 systems that work as designed. I haven't setup Atmos yet for the OLED upstairs (mostly because of WAF  ) but I wouldn't expect any issues. And yes, gaming is a challenge right now with the new high speed GPUs, tv's, cable lengths and types of cables. However, with a good conduit in place, as connection technology catches up to video technology, connections should become easier and less problematic.


----------



## StephenBishop

Is the Ruipro still the preferred cable from a reliability perspective for a 50 feet cable?

Do we know what has changed in version C over version B?


----------



## Tanquen

StephenBishop said:


> Is the Ruipro still the preferred cable from a reliability perspective for a 50 feet cable?
> 
> Do we know what has changed in version C over version B?


I say no. Wait for someone using the same chip as Cable Matters. I am also waiting for a 45' cables and the 33' Cable Matters is still working well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Is the Ruipro still the preferred cable from a reliability perspective for a 50 feet cable?
> 
> Do we know what has changed in version C over version B?


Better compatibility with devices. Ruipro uses their own proprietary chipset design that is mfr'd specifically for them. That's why they were able to release updates to their cables so quickly. I don't know if Cable Matters uses their own chipset design but I would imagine they do given their collaboration with Silicon Line GmbH. There has been some discussions though about issues with the Samsung Q90Ts and some Sony tv's. No cable is perfect, regardless of the mfr.

Ruipro will be releasing an ATC certified hybrid fiber cable sometime in May. It will be labeled the same, Ruipro 8k Gen-3C, but will have a different product code. Competition and choice is always good for the consumer.


----------



## Straykatt

I received an email back from Ruipro regarding the heat of the hdmi connectors and potential risk


Sorry for late reply as too busy recently.
It is impossible that the ports could catch fire.

There maybe 2 reasons that the port is hot:
1. Maybe the cooling fan of the GPU is blow the heat to the ports and make the ports hot;
2. Maybe the cable is a defective or other problems.

Actually metal material is good for heat dissipating.
So no problem that the material is metal.


Its good to know there’s no concerns with fires.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I received an email back from Ruipro regarding the heat of the hdmi connectors and potential risk
> 
> 
> Sorry for late reply as too busy recently.
> It is impossible that the ports could catch fire.
> 
> There maybe 2 reasons that the port is hot:
> 1. Maybe the cooling fan of the GPU is blow the heat to the ports and make the ports hot;
> 2. Maybe the cable is a defective or other problems.
> 
> Actually metal material is good for heat dissipating.
> So no problem that the material is metal.
> 
> 
> Its good to know there’s no concerns with fires.


The general feeling among some of the cable mfrs, not just Ruipro, is that the increased heat is in fact due to inadequate heat dissipation or design of some of the card mfrs. It certainly could be a defective cable, but it is unlikely that the "defect" would generate heat. It's more likely that the cable connector is not designed well enough to dissipate the unexpected heat output of the graphic card.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> It's more likely that the cable connector is not designed well enough to dissipate the unexpected heat output of the graphic card.


Or... the heat generated by "computer" interface graphics cards is something that wasn't a consideration/priority when designing an active cable as the focus would typically be TV/STB/BRP interfaces.

It's possibly yet another "finger pointing blame game".


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Or... the heat generated by "computer" interface graphics cards is something that wasn't a consideration/priority when designing an active cable as the focus would typically be TV/STB/BRP interfaces.
> 
> It's possibly yet another "finger pointing blame game".


Yep. Finger pointing for sure. Certainly not enough definitive proof to point to one source or another.


----------



## Ratman

Has anyone observed considerable "overheating" concerns and/or failures on interfaces other than PC interfaces/tolerances/configurations?


----------



## StephenBishop

Ratman said:


> Has anyone observed considerable "overheating" concerns and/or failures on interfaces other than PC interfaces/tolerances/configurations?


Yes, my Ruipro 4k cable failed due to overheating at the source end while connected to a MadVR VP which has a 3080 GPU installed.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Yes, my Ruipro 4k cable failed due to overheating at the source end while connected to a MadVR VP which has a 3080 GPU installed.


So it sounds like the source of the heating was the GPU and not the cable?


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> So it sounds like the source of the heating was the GPU and not the cable?


That depends. I explained in the post #1,688  that different GPUs have different heat dissipation openings at the back panel. Vast majority of GPU have perforations. Besides, it is extremely rare that a cable would fail because it is connected to high-end GPU.

HDMI 2.1 pushes almost 3 times more data than HDMI 2.0. More heat could be generated during this process, so it is legitimate to ask whether the same materials used in production of the previous gen of cables are equally suitable for Ultra High Speed cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> That depends. I explained in the post #1,688  that different GPUs have different heat dissipation openings at the back panel. Vast majority of GPU have perforations. Besides, it is extremely rare that a cable would fail because it is connected to high-end GPU.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 pushes almost 3 times more data than HDMI 2.0. More heat could be generated during this process, so it is legitimate to ask whether the same materials used in production of the previous gen of cables are equally suitable for Ultra High Speed cables.


I posted that very question. A lot of cable mfrs didn't have access to the shipping GPUs at the time so my guess is that the heat dissipation issues from the GPUs wasn't looked into as closely as it should have been during the design of the cable connectors. The GPU mfr's need to come up with a better design for heat dissipation, and now that the cable mfrs are aware of the potential issues, they need to figure out a better way to heat protect their components, which is going to be difficult given the general design of hybrid fiber cables. 

Depending on the cable mfr, the design and components used in the new generation of hybrid fiber cables are different than the previous generation. 

This all points back to my previous statement that closer cooperation between the GPU mfrs and the cable mfrs might have mitigated some of the issues that we are seeing now.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Better compatibility with devices. Ruipro uses their own proprietary chipset design that is mfr'd specifically for them. That's why they were able to release updates to their cables so quickly. I don't know if Cable Matters uses their own chipset design but I would imagine they do given their collaboration with Silicon Line GmbH. There has been some discussions though about issues with the Samsung Q90Ts and some Sony tv's. No cable is perfect, regardless of the mfr.
> 
> Ruipro will be releasing an ATC certified hybrid fiber cable sometime in May. It will be labeled the same, Ruipro 8k Gen-3C, but will have a different product code. Competition and choice is always good for the consumer.


They're using larger chips that use more power and like any device that does if you try to run it faster it's going to generate more heat. If you try to run it over spec it's going to have trouble. Maybe they tried to do some kind of binning for chips that could handle all the extra speed but they don't. They don't consistently for sure. And they're not adding secret codes to make their cable work with a particular TV. They're sending out other cables that are a little bit more on the ragged edge of working than the ragged edge of not working. Devices on either end sure they can have issues not supporting the protocols correctly but they're not adding anything into the cable, I don't know why you keep pushing this and the brand. They're trying to make a working cable great but cable matters already has one that works and theirs doesn't, not consistently and who wants that?


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> That depends. I explained in the post #1,688  that different GPUs have different heat dissipation openings at the back panel. Vast majority of GPU have perforations. Besides, it is extremely rare that a cable would fail because it is connected to high-end GPU.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 pushes almost 3 times more data than HDMI 2.0. More heat could be generated during this process, so it is legitimate to ask whether the same materials used in production of the previous gen of cables are equally suitable for Ultra High Speed cables.


My RTX 3080 has the vent next to the ports and again it hasn't made any real difference. When the cable matters cable is active it's only a few degrees warmer so far. I do have good ventilation behind the computer. If you've got a GPU that's pumping out a bunch of heat and the back of the computer is pumping out a bunch of heat and you've got it in a cabinet it's going to be worse but I still don't think the cable matters cable is going to be that much hotter. Normal cables aren't going to generate any heat on their own it's just the active cables. If the processor in the active cable is efficient enough it's not going to be a problem.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> The general feeling among some of the cable mfrs, not just Ruipro, is that the increased heat is in fact due to inadequate heat dissipation or design of some of the card mfrs. It certainly could be a defective cable, but it is unlikely that the "defect" would generate heat. It's more likely that the cable connector is not designed well enough to dissipate the unexpected heat output of the graphic card.


No.


----------



## StephenBishop

Well just bought two of the Ruipro 8K cables from Amazon. The first just arrived. Completely dead on arrival. No signal whatsoever with or without the USB power dongle attached. The source (laptop) and display (projector) ends were correctly connected. Returned for a refund. Real bummer.

Crossing my fingers that the second one works. Will know in a couple of days when it arrives!


----------



## AVR Enthu

Tanquen said:


> My RTX 3080 has the vent next to the ports and again it hasn't made any real difference. When the cable matters cable is active it's only a few degrees warmer so far


That's expected from those vents. Keep the air flowing unrestrictedly and get a few degrees only. It should never be a big deal for a good cable to receive warm air flow from GPU's vents.


Tanquen said:


> If you've got a GPU that's pumping out a bunch of heat and the back of the computer is pumping out a bunch of heat and you've got it in a cabinet it's going to be worse but I still don't think the cable matters cable is going to be that much hotter.


Keeping PC in the cabinet without good air flow is worse for entire system. It should not matter too much for the cable. Agreed.


----------



## AVR Enthu

StephenBishop said:


> Returned for a refund. Real bummer.


Sorry to hear. Bad appple. If not happy with the second one, try Cable Matters or Maxonar.


----------



## StephenBishop

AVR Enthu said:


> Sorry to hear. Bad appple. If not happy withj the second one, try Cable Matters or Maxonar.


 I need a 50 foot cable which neither Cable Matters nor Maxonar seem to have.


----------



## christofin

Just an update, it's been 3 days of _extensive_ use and the Cable Matters cable has not cut out for me one time, not even a blip... much better experience than the Ruipro for me personally


----------



## Tanquen

StephenBishop said:


> Well just bought two of the Ruipro 8K cables from Amazon. The first just arrived. Completely dead on arrival. No signal whatsoever with or without the USB power dongle attached. The source (laptop) and display (projector) ends were correctly connected. Returned for a refund. Real bummer.
> 
> Crossing my fingers that the second one works. Will know in a couple of days when it arrives!


No reason someone would recommend Ruipro.
Unless desperate and can not wait for something longer than the Cable Matters 33' from them or someone using the same chip, avoid Ruipro.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> Just an update, it's been 3 days of _extensive_ use and the Cable Matters cable has not cut out for me one time, not even a blip... much better experience than the Ruipro for me personally


Same for me so far. I hope to setup the second cable and try some eARC this weekend.

Have you tried playing any Netflix or Hulu through the PC to the TV? I get some audio hiccups or little audio only pauses. Restarting Netflix seems to fix it. I've always used the app built into the TV so I'm not sure what is going on yet. It's very random.


----------



## StephenBishop

Tanquen said:


> No reason someone would recommend Ruipro.
> Unless desperate and can not wait for something longer than the Cable Matters 33' from them or someone using the same chip, avoid Ruipro.


Yes, unfortunately I need a 50 feet cable and Cable Matters does not seem to offer one currently! 8K is not essential as of now as my projector is only 4K but the Envy VP is HDMI 2.1 and can process 8K as it has a 3080 GPU. So the 8K cable is only for some future proofing. Do you think there will be a problem with connector overheating if the 3080 is only pushing out 4K at 60hz (albeit working overtime on the processing)?


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> Same for me so far. I hope to setup the second cable and try some eARC this weekend.
> 
> Have you tried playing any Netflix or Hulu through the PC to the TV? I get some audio hiccups or little audio only pauses. Restarting Netflix seems to fix it. I've always used the app built into the TV so I'm not sure what is going on yet. It's very random.


No, I just use an Nvidia Shield for that, I've always had bad experiences playing media through my PC to my TV. 



StephenBishop said:


> Yes, unfortunately I need a 50 feet cable and Cable Matters does not seem to offer one currently! 8K is not essential as of now as my projector is only 4K but the Envy VP is HDMI 2.1 and can process 8K as it has a 3080 GPU. So the 8K cable is only for some future proofing. Do you think there will be a problem with connector overheating if the 3080 is only pushing out 4K at 60hz (albeit working overtime on the processing)?


I don't know if it is an overheating issue yet, I've had 18gbps HDMI 2.0b cables get really hot in the past and work fine. I can only say that the Cable Matters one does seem to dissipate heat better than the Ruipro. For all I know the heat could have nothing to do with the Ruipro issues. 

Also, I think Cable Matters did announce longer length cables, they might not be ready yet. I did have to move my PC closer to my TV because I went from a 40 foot Ruipro to a 30 foot Cable Matters cable, which is really unfortunate as it cut down on the effective size of my VR area quite a bit...

Does anyone know if cable length affects how sensitive the cable is to voltage fluctuations? If so, maybe someone should test the exact same length Ruipro cable against the Cable Matters one.


----------



## Tanquen

StephenBishop said:


> Yes, unfortunately I need a 50 feet cable and Cable Matters does not seem to offer one currently! 8K is not essential as of now as my projector is only 4K but the Envy VP is HDMI 2.1 and can process 8K as it has a 3080 GPU. So the 8K cable is only for some future proofing. Do you think there will be a problem with connector overheating if the 3080 is only pushing out 4K at 60hz (albeit working overtime on the processing)?


The Ruipro? I don't think external heat is it's real or only issue. They just are not meat to run at HDMI 2.1 18GBPS+ speeds. No idea if they work at lower speeds reliable. You would just have to role the dice if you can't wait. I'm goin going to wait. There too many benefits to the Cable Matters chip.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> No, I just use an Nvidia Shield for that, I've always had bad experiences playing media through my PC to my TV.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if it is an overheating issue yet, I've had 18gbps HDMI 2.0b cables get really hot in the past and work fine. I can only say that the Cable Matters one does seem to dissipate heat better than the Ruipro. For all I know the heat could have nothing to do with the Ruipro issues.
> 
> Also, I think Cable Matters did announce longer length cables, they might not be ready yet. I did have to move my PC closer to my TV because I went from a 40 foot Ruipro to a 30 foot Cable Matters cable, which is really unfortunate as it cut down on the effective size of my VR area quite a bit...
> 
> Does anyone know if cable length affects how sensitive the cable is to voltage fluctuations? If so, maybe someone should test the exact same length Ruipro cable against the Cable Matters one.


"Does anyone know if cable length affects how sensitive the cable is to voltage fluctuations?"
The important stuff is all on fiber so the lengths that we are talking about will not matter. I don't think the Ruipro cables randomly working are not just heat and not at all length, its the older, lager, more heat generating chip they use that is not meant for HDMI 2.1 speeds. Do as you like but even if the Ruipro works or works when you get it I'd not want the older bigger chip with the bigger connectors and the extra USB power cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> They're using larger chips that use more power and like any device that does if you try to run it faster it's going to generate more heat. If you try to run it over spec it's going to have trouble. Maybe they tried to do some kind of binning for chips that could handle all the extra speed but they don't. They don't consistently for sure. And they're not adding secret codes to make their cable work with a particular TV. They're sending out other cables that are a little bit more on the ragged edge of working than the ragged edge of not working. Devices on either end sure they can have issues not supporting the protocols correctly but they're not adding anything into the cable, I don't know why you keep pushing this and the brand. They're trying to make a working cable great but cable matters already has one that works and theirs doesn't, not consistently and who wants that?


How do you know they are using larger chips? Have you taken apart the connector ends and compared the chipsets on the 8k Gen-3C cable to the 4k cable? And who said anything, except you, that they are using secret codes to get their cables to work with specific device? Oh I get it, that was a joke, not misinformation.

I really hope that the Cable Matters cables perform consistently over time and that Ruipro overcomes what ever issues they have. Hopefully the new, ATC certified Ruipro cables will be more robust. As I have said, competition and choices are good for the consumer.

As far the HDMI 2.0 option sets, the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables work very well for most folks. Those I did extensive testing on two different HTS's and they worked without issues.

I get it that you are obsessed with me, and I suppose I should be flattered, but I'm not.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> How do you know they are using larger chips? Have you taken apart the connector ends and compared the chipsets on the 8k Gen-3C cable to the 4k cable? And who said anything, except you, that they are using secret codes to get their cables to work with specific device? Oh I get it, that was a joke, not misinformation.
> 
> I really hope that the Cable Matters cables perform consistently over time and that Ruipro overcomes what ever issues they have. Hopefully the new, ATC certified Ruipro cables will be more robust. As I have said, competition and choices are good for the consumer.
> 
> As far the HDMI 2.0 option sets, the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables work very well for most folks. Those I did extensive testing on two different HTS's and they worked without issues.
> 
> I get it that you are obsessed with me, and I suppose I should be flattered, but I'm not.


I talked to the manufactures and they told me the deal.

"I get it that you are obsessed with me, and I suppose I should be flattered, but I'm not." Go with your gut. Where is the obsessed with you part? I don't care who says it, if it is most likely nonsense, I'll say something about it. Someone else comes in here and recommends using a Ruipro cables I'll say the same thing.

You keep defending Ruipro and their (now apparently) new smaller, low power chip, totally custom designed by them for HDMI 2.1 48Gbps, that don't generate heat and don't need extra power but needs secrete codes to work with a certain TV?
You keep saying some stuff that is suspect and I disagree with some of it. I asked you about it long ago and again you just defect (something like or you researched my posts) and then post the same stuff again. You said there is no way I could test the cables (with your roll eyes) and active cables will not be certified and just get the Ruipro, they may not work but that is what conduit is for and on and on. The cable length is the issue, nonsense. It's the TV or devices, nonsense. Can't make a cable that works for everything, nonsense. They need to tweak the cable to work with that TV, nonsense.

"As far the HDMI 2.0 option sets, the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables work very well for most folks. Those I did extensive testing on two different HTS's and they worked without issues."
Again with the "extensive testing" of Ruipro HDMI 2.0 cables. Great, that is not what this thread is about. The thread is about reliable HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. Ruipro are not that right now.

If you are desperate for a cable longer than Cable Matters 33', role the dice with Ruipro if you just can't wait.


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> I talked to the manufactures and they told me the deal.
> 
> "I get it that you are obsessed with me, and I suppose I should be flattered, but I'm not." Go with your gut. Where is the obsessed with you part? I don't care who says it, if it is most likely nonsense, I'll say something about it. Someone else comes in here and recommends using a Ruipro cables I'll say the same thing.
> 
> You keep defending Ruipro and their (now apparently) new smaller, low power chip, totally custom designed by them for HDMI 2.1 48Gbps, that don't generate heat and don't need extra power but needs secrete codes to work with a certain TV?
> You keep saying some stuff that is suspect and I disagree with some of it. I asked you about it long ago and again you just defect (something like or you researched my posts) and then post the same stuff again. You said there is no way I could test the cables (with your roll eyes) and they will not be certified and just get the Ruipro, they may not work but that is what conduit is for and on and on. The cable length is the issue, nonsense. It's the TV or devices, nonsense. Can't make a cable that works for everything, nonsense. They need to tweak the cable to work with that TV, nonsense.
> 
> "As far the HDMI 2.0 option sets, the Ruipro 4k and 8k cables work very well for most folks. Those I did extensive testing on two different HTS's and they worked without issues."
> Again with the "extensive testing" of Ruipro HDMI 2.0 cables. Great, that is not what this thread is about. The thread is about reliable HDMI 2.1 48Gbps cables. Ruipro are not that right now.
> 
> If you are desperate for a cable longer than Cable Matters 33', role the dice with Ruipro if you just can't wait.


I didn't want to jump in on this but I just need to ask why you think Otto Pylot is being so nefarious... this is a thread discussing HDMI cables FFS, can we just keep this polite? Haha. 



Otto Pylot said:


> I get it that you are obsessed with me, and I suppose I should be flattered, but I'm not.


Lmao.


----------



## Tanquen

"RESPONSE FROM MANUFACTURER - CABLE MATTERS: We're working on releasing a longer length of 49.2'. But currently, there is no estimated delivery time yet.

When?????


----------



## Ratman

Tanquen said:


> If you are desperate for a cable longer than Cable Matters 33', role the dice with Ruipro if you just can't wait.


There ya go!


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> I didn't want to jump in on this but I just need to ask why you think Otto Pylot is being so nefarious... this is a thread discussing HDMI cables FFS, can we just keep this polite? Haha.
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao.


Just as said in the post. Over all he seems to be trying to be helpful but some of the stuff is just not true and the whole Ruipro thing. Why keep push them? They listed and sold cables as 8k HDMI 2.1 48Gbps that were not. They are trying to fix them but still have issues and *they sell a 3' $80 active cable*. If there are other options I'd not recommend. Why post about their in house custom chip and that's how that can fix their cables that don't work and so on. Maybe he just really likes the brand but seems overly vested.

I don't think I attacked him or he I really but he did the roll eyes and posted how someone here thinks they know something he didn't and could test a cable. Now there is the your "obsessed with me" post and the I talked to the manufactures and yeah it's the heat from the video card. All together, just odd and not buying it.


----------



## christofin

Tanquen said:


> Just as said in the post. Over all he seems to be trying to be helpful but some of the stuff is just not true and the whole Ruipro thing. Why keep push them? They listed and sold cables as 8k HDMI 2.1 48Gbps that were not. They are trying to fix them but still have issues and *they sell a 3' $80 active cable*. If there are other options I'd not recommend. Why post about their in house custom chip and that's how that can fix their cables that don't work and so on. Maybe he just really likes the brand but seems overly vested.
> 
> I don't think I attacked him or he I really but he did the roll eyes and posted how someone here thinks they know something he didn't and could test a cable. Now there is the your "obsessed with me" post and the I talked to the manufactures and yeah it's the heat from the video card. All together, just odd and not buying it.


Fair enough. I can say though that their customer service is really good and they are a good company overall to work with, and I'm sure that if/when they work the minor issues out, they'll be a top brand to buy from.


----------



## Tanquen

christofin said:


> Fair enough. I can say though that their customer service is really good and they are a good company overall to work with, and I'm sure that if/when they work the minor issues out, they'll be a top brand to buy from.


The 3' $80 active cable don't bother you?  Just seems a little shady when almost any 3' HDMI cable will work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> I talked to the manufactures and they told me the deal.


You talked to Ruipro and they told you that they just use larger chipsets? If that's true then you're one up on me. Lemme verify that and I'll get back to you. If verified, then yeah, I'm disappointed in them, but that may be what the cable industry is just doing in general. Some of this is proprietary as far as components go and some, actually quite a lot, is "off the shelf", so better supply chain? Who knows? There are folks who have their Ruipro cables working just fine with their GPUs but I am not privy to the return information so I don't know what the actual failure rate is.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> You talked to Ruipro and they told you that they just use larger chipsets? If that's true then you're one up on me. Lemme verify that and I'll get back to you. If verified, then yeah, I'm disappointed in them, but that may be what the cable industry is just doing in general. Some of this is proprietary as far as components go and some, actually quite a lot, is "off the shelf", so better supply chain? Who knows? There are folks who have their Ruipro cables working just fine with their GPUs but I am not privy to the return information so I don't know what the actual failure rate is.


The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


I haven't had to pay for my cables in a long time, as I have previously mentioned. Either from Zeskit or Ruipro (active fiber and certified passive). And, I have always stated that Ruipro cables, and hybrid fiber cables in general are expensive. At least Ruipro is really good about working with customers and replacing cables that haven't performed as expected, or returning your money. Don't know how responsive Cable Matters is in that respect. Zeskit never responded to my failed, certified UHS HDMI cable issue.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I haven't had to pay for my cables in a long time, as I have previously mentioned. Either from Zeskit or Ruipro (active fiber and certified passive). And, I have always stated that Ruipro cables, and hybrid fiber cables in general are expensive. At least Ruipro is really good about working with customers and replacing cables that haven't performed as expected, or returning your money. Don't know how responsive Cable Matters is in that respect. Zeskit never responded to my failed, certified UHS HDMI cable issue.


The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


I think you're repeating yourself. Happens to the best of us.

I just heard back from Ruipro and no one ever said that the chipsets were bigger to handle the higher bandwidth or that they were overclocked. The chip design is proprietary and entirely new. In fact, the chip mfr'er is the same one used by a couple of different cable mfrs, which is common in the industry. Once certification is completed, the new gen will hopefully be available in May. If the cables produce too much heat to affect performance, they will not pass ATC certification (EMI and high frequency). So we'll see.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I think you're repeating yourself. Happens to the best of us.
> 
> I just heard back from Ruipro and no one ever said that the chipsets were bigger to handle the higher bandwidth or that they were overclocked. The chip design is proprietary and entirely new. In fact, the chip mfr'er is the same one used by a couple of different cable mfrs, which is common in the industry. Once certification is completed, the new gen will hopefully be available in May. If the cables produce too much heat to affect performance, they will not pass ATC certification (EMI and high frequency). So we'll see.


"chipsets were bigger to handle the higher bandwidth" No one did say that, that part is true.
"In fact, the chip mfr'er is the same one used by a couple of different cable mfrs " ??? but "The chip design is proprietary and entirely new. " ??? Where is that roll eyes thing?
The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> "chipsets were bigger to handle the higher bandwidth" No one did say that, that part is true.
> "In fact, the chip mfr'er is the same one used by a couple of different cable mfrs " ??? but "The chip design is proprietary and entirely new. " ??? Where is that roll eyes thing?
> The 3' $80 active cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really dispirit.


_They're using larger chips that use more power and like any device that does if you try to run it faster it's going to generate more heat.

I talked to the manufactures and they told me the deal._

Both of those are your quotes. If I misunderstood what you posted then my bad. Oh, and I am assuming you mean "desperate" and not "dispirit". I don't understand why you have an issue with the proprietary chipset comment. Cable Matters has their own design as well and I'm sure Silicon Line builds the chips following their specs. Just like Ruipro does when they send their proprietary design to their chip mfr. And it is quite common for a chip fabricator to build custom chipsets for different clients. The point is that companies like Cable Matters, Maxonar, Ruipro, etc don't actually fab their own chips, they farm it out. Which is not cheap but cheaper than operating their own fabrication facilities.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> _They're using larger chips that use more power and like any device that does if you try to run it faster it's going to generate more heat.
> 
> I talked to the manufactures and they told me the deal._
> 
> Both of those are your quotes. If I misunderstood what you posted then my bad. Oh, and I am assuming you mean "desperate" and not "dispirit". I don't understand why you have an issue with the proprietary chipset comment. Cable Matters has their own design as well and I'm sure Silicon Line builds the chips following their specs. Just like Ruipro does when they send their proprietary design to their chip mfr. And it is quite common for a chip fabricator to build custom chipsets for different clients. The point is that companies like Cable Matters, Maxonar, Ruipro, etc don't actually fab their own chips, they farm it out. Which is not cheap but cheaper than operating their own fabrication facilities.


Now you're just obsessed with me and studying my posts. I'm so flattered. No I'm not, see what I did there?

You misquote me in the other post and now you quote me in this one and don't notice the difference? Never said chipsets and never said they were using larger ones to handle more bandwidth. Just seems kind of specialized for a chipset application and more of a widget. I could see them asking for customizations but not a ground up proprietary design. Like an Intel CPU and motherboard chipset versus an AMD CPU and motherboard chipset differ a bit from multiple SSD manufacturers all using one or two other companies RAID controller with some customizations here and there.

And yes I'm dyslexic and can't spell and rely on text-to-speech, see what I did there? It didn't look right but it gets old checking every other word. Oh but I assume you meant to be jerk. Totally relevant and totally worth bringing up. Always there with the helpful important information. 

Yes, almost no one has their own fab. I'm just not sure it's a proprietary new design that's overheating and not working. Why is it getting hot? Why is the enclosure still the same size? Why doesn't it work? I've given a few temperature readings on the cable matters cables and their negligible I haven't seen anybody give a temperature reading on the other cable other than saying that it's very hot. 

The 3' $80 active Ruipro cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really desperado.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Now you're just obsessed with me and studying my posts. I'm so flattered. No I'm not, see what I did there?
> 
> You misquote me in the other post and now you quote me in this one and don't notice the difference? Never said chipsets and never said they were using larger ones to handle more bandwidth. Just seems kind of specialized for a chipset application and more of a widget. I could see them asking for customizations but not a ground up proprietary design. Like an Intel CPU and motherboard chipset versus an AMD CPU and motherboard chipset differ a bit from multiple SSD manufacturers all using one or two other companies RAID controller with some customizations here and there.
> 
> And yes I'm dyslexic and can't spell and rely on text-to-speech, see what I did there? It didn't look right but it gets old checking every other word. Oh but I assume you meant to be jerk. Totally relevant and totally worth bringing up. Always there with the helpful important information.
> 
> Yes, almost no one has their own fab. I'm just not sure it's a proprietary new design that's overheating and not working. Why is it getting hot? Why is the enclosure still the same size? Why doesn't it work? I've given a few temperature readings on the cable matters cables and their negligible I haven't seen anybody give a temperature reading on the other cable other than saying that it's very hot.
> 
> The 3' $80 active Ruipro cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really desperado.


Desperado. I like that. If I did misquote you, and if you really read my post, I did apologize in advance (my bad I think is what I said). Your response did appear that you had talked to Ruipro about using larger chips, but again if I misread that, it was a mistake. Happy now?

How about this. If I do respond to one of your posts, I'll be as positive as I can be and you do the same. I'm sure the other members are tired of this as am I. You have your opinions and I have mine. I do have a small advantage over you of obtaining some "inside" information from one cable mfr who has been very honest and forthright with me. We have developed a trust relationship over the last two years in that he relays some information to me that I am not allowed to post publicly. There is no NDA or anything like that. Just plain old trust and respect. Because of that, I have been contacted as well by one of the developers of the HDMI 2.1 specs with the same "trust requirements". And before you even post it, the relationship that I have with Ruipro is not for the sole purpose of selling their cables. They don't need me to do their marketing. I could go into details but I have already done that so there's no point. I get nothing from them other than cables to test and information. The same is true for Zeskit. 

That's the beauty of this forum. It's always a constant learning curve and as long as we can politely discuss our opinions, others will learn or have the information to base their own opinions on.


----------



## Ratman

Well said Otto!


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> Desperado. I like that. If I did misquote you, and if you really read my post, I did apologize in advance (my bad I think is what I said). Your response did appear that you had talked to Ruipro about using larger chips, but again if I misread that, it was a mistake. Happy now?
> 
> How about this. If I do respond to one of your posts, I'll be as positive as I can be and you do the same. I'm sure the other members are tired of this as am I. You have your opinions and I have mine. I do have a small advantage over you of obtaining some "inside" information from one cable mfr who has been very honest and forthright with me. We have developed a trust relationship over the last two years in that he relays some information to me that I am not allowed to post publicly. There is no NDA or anything like that. Just plain old trust and respect. Because of that, I have been contacted as well by one of the developers of the HDMI 2.1 specs with the same "trust requirements". And before you even post it, the relationship that I have with Ruipro is not for the sole purpose of selling their cables. They don't need me to do their marketing. I could go into details but I have already done that so there's no point. I get nothing from them other than cables to test and information. The same is true for Zeskit.
> 
> That's the beauty of this forum. It's always a constant learning curve and as long as we can politely discuss our opinions, others will learn or have the information to base their own opinions on.


" but again if I misread that, it was a mistake. Happy now?" If? Ok... But I'm just picking on you? Apologizing in advance is ok I guess but I think you knew what I had said and apologizing in advance kind of reaffirms such thoughts.

That's fine no reason to get ugly and at 87 pages very little in here is about the OP. But one of the issues is the reposting of debated/debatable info and posting over and over again. It's ok for you but not someone that disagrees with you? Then they are out to get you? You are friendly with them and that is fine and you get fee cables and that is fine and you tested their cables but not with speeds the thread is about. Ruipro was not honest and their 3' $80 active cable is pretty shady. All together you seem overly vested in them when there seems to be no reason to be. We don't get free cables and not everyone has nice easy to use conduit or wants to get a new cables more that every ten years or so if it can be avoided.


----------



## Otto Pylot

With regards to conduit, it is painfully obvious that going forward, for those who have long runs, if one can not install conduit for their HDMI cabling, then they really need to consider an alternate way of running those long cable runs. And yes, I have said this many times before but it bears repeating..... Video technology will always outpace connection technology and you will be swapping out cables until you find one that works. So having easy access to your cabling is the only safe, and wise way to keep your shiny new HDMI 2.1 and beyond components playing nicely, because you can't depend on the cable mfrs to release cables that will just work for all devices, and keep pace with the industry who is great and convincing folks that they need this new technology now. If you think you can buy one cable now, that will last for 10 years with changes in technology, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.

As to the point of this thread, once cables were released that were claiming HDMI 2.1 compatibility I started posting information that I felt was useful and at least gave folks options to look into and things to think about. Ruipro had, and still does, an excellent reputation with their 4k cables and it stood to reason that their 8k cables would perform as well. And there are lots of folks who are succesfully using their Gen-3C cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and panels like the LG CX. Cable Matters and Maxonar appear to work as well, for some, with certain setups.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> With regards to conduit, it is painfully obvious that going forward, for those who have long runs, if one can not install conduit for their HDMI cabling, then they really need to consider an alternate way of running those long cable runs. And yes, I have said this many times before but it bears repeating..... Video technology will always outpace connection technology and you will be swapping out cables until you find one that works. So having easy access to your cabling is the only safe, and wise way to keep your shiny new HDMI 2.1 and beyond components playing nicely, because you can't depend on the cable mfrs to release cables that will just work for all devices, and keep pace with the industry who is great and convincing folks that they need this new technology now. If you think you can buy one cable now, that will last for 10 years with changes in technology, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.
> 
> As to the point of this thread, once cables were released that were claiming HDMI 2.1 compatibility I started posting information that I felt was useful and at least gave folks options to look into and things to think about. Ruipro had, and still does, an excellent reputation with their 4k cables and it stood to reason that their 8k cables would perform as well. And there are lots of folks who are succesfully using their Gen-3C cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and panels like the LG CX. Cable Matters and Maxonar appear to work as well, for some, with certain setups.


and again...
"With regards to conduit," Yes but not everyone has it and it not an ok or an out for manufactures to release so so products. I want a cable that does what it says on the box and work for years.

"If you think you can buy one cable now, that will last for 10 years with changes in technology, then you are going to be sorely disappointed." Time flies, that is around the age of the ones I have now that do all but HDMI 2.1 18Gbps + speeds. Used with 3 or 4 AVRs and 2 different TVs. They would still be fine but I want to game at 4k 120Hrz. Maybe there will be a must have next year but I'm not interested in 8k or 10k or 300Hz.

"because you can't depend on the cable mfrs to release cables that will just work for all devices" Not true and not what we should be looking for in the manufactures and their products. My old ones did just that.

"And there are lots of folks who are succesfully using their Gen-3C cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and panels like the LG CX. " I've seen a number of folks that have them and that did not work and or stopped working. 

"Cable Matters and Maxonar appear to work as well, for some, with certain setups." Come on, what is the, for some and certain setups? Maxonar have issues? What issues is Cable Matters having? I'll try and test.

"Ruipro had, and still does, an excellent reputation " Just agree to disagree. In addition to selling cables that don't work and most likely knew (design their own stuff and whatnot) would not at listed specs, the 3' $80 active Ruipro cable should disappoint you enough to look elsewhere. Unless really desperado.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> you can't depend on the cable mfrs to release cables that will just work for all devices


Look. It does not work like that. We do not depend on manufacturers, we depend on the standardisation process of HDMI 2.1 cables, which is the backbone of the certification process. All manufacturers *must *produce a product that meets the agreed standard. Period.

Every officially certified HDMI 2.1 cable should work with every single device that has a working HDMI 2.1 port. It's as simple as that. There are no ifs and no buts. Ultra high speed cables are standardised and it should not matter what device they connect to. What matters for a cable is HDMI 2.1 port only. Whatever device is behind that port, it's not cable's business.



Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters and Maxonar appear to work as well, for some, with certain setups


Again, every certified cable should work with every single set up. One single standardised feature of HDMI 2.1 roller-coaster are the cables. This is the only certification process that HDMI Forum is formally in full control of and this should bring the same product no matter which company produces it. So, yes, we can expect that every released and certified HDMI 2.1 cable will work with every single device with HDMI 2.1 port.

It's HMDI Forum's responsibility to make random visits to factories and sample cables, to ensure that the standard is upheld, so that consumers have confidence in certified products. How well this process works and whether some companies try to play with it, is a different topic. The only ground where companies producing certified cables could compete with each other are minor aesthetic features, such as colours, shape of connectors, some materials used, length, etc. Beyond that, they all must deliver the same product on the market, otherwise it cannot be called certified ultra high speed cable. Uncertified cables are going to be more hit and miss and that's also another topic.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> All manufacturers *must *produce a product that meets the agreed standard. Period.


Work on that issue. Somehow.... 
HDMI.org creates the standard. Cable manufacturers attempt to adhere to the standards. Source and destination devices also try to adhere to those standards. Over the past decade, no one apparently can meet the requirements of the consumer(s) that push the limits of the standards and hope for utopia.

Move all of the stuff that needs the best HDMI connection to under 10' and doesn't need to be upgraded for 10 years.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> Look. It does not work like that. We do not depend on manufacturers, we depend on the standardisation process of HDMI 2.1 cables, which is the backbone of the certification process. All manufacturers *must *produce a product that meets the agreed standard. Period.
> 
> Every officially certified HDMI 2.1 cable should work with every single device that has a working HDMI 2.1 port. It's as simple as that. There are no ifs and no buts. Ultra high speed cables are standardised and it should not matter what device they connect to. What matters for a cable is HDMI 2.1 port only. Whatever device is behind that port, it's not cable's business.
> 
> 
> Again, every certified cable should work with every single set up. One single standardised feature of HDMI 2.1 roller-coaster are the cables. This is the only certification process that HDMI Forum is formally in full control of and this should bring the same product no matter which company produces it. So, yes, we can expect that every released and certified HDMI 2.1 cable will work with every single device with HDMI 2.1 port.
> 
> It's HMDI Forum's responsibility to make random visits to factories and sample cables, to ensure that the standard is upheld, so that consumers have confidence in certified products. How well this process works and whether some companies try to play with it, is a different topic. The only ground where companies producing certified cables could compete with each other are minor aesthetic features, such as colours, shape of connectors, some materials used, length, etc. Beyond that, they all must deliver the same product on the market, otherwise it cannot be called certified ultra high speed cable. Uncertified cables are going to be more hit and miss and that's also another topic.


I agree. Every certified cable should work with every device of the same hardware version, but in reality it doesn't. In fact, to use HDMI.org's own words:

*"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*

HDMI, in general is a frickin' mess and I wish someone had've come up with a better and more robust connectivity option. And don't even get me started on HDCP. There is, as we speak, work on yet another HDMI hardware version but if the industry doesn't get its act together and work to really standardize the hardware and cable compatibility for better interoperability, these types of compatibility issues will continue.

I should have been more specific with the "certain setups" comment. What I meant is the wide range of tv's, receivers, soundbars, active/passive switches, cables, etc. that consumers use which can, and does, affect compatibility. Some have no issues, others have lots of issues, and others are in between.

What would be great is if the industry forced the same HDMI standards and implementation of those standards on all device mfrs, and actually made all of the HDMI features actual standards and not just options. Industry standards are developed by independent groups like IEEE, IETF, ANSI, INCITS, etc which pay to join industry groups. Ethernet, for example, is an industry standard (IEEE 802.1/.3), which is owned by a trade association.

Randomized testing and inspections would definitely be helpful but that is very costly and we all know that nobody is going to opt for that. Even the ATC testing of hardware/cable devices should be more comprehensive than just testing a large batch of devices and saying they are good to go. Even if one tested every 50 devices for example than just multiples of that number the failure rate would probably be a bit higher. But that is very costly so the likelyhood of "bad" devices hitting the marketplace is greater. 

I'm not here to blindly defend the industry. They need to really step up and offer more trouble-free devices to the consumer, but the bottom line is what is driving this, which affects quality. I have actually received some interesting messages suggesting that I dial back some of my comments on tighter industry control and marketing techniques.

We are all in agreement that this is a mess, and claims by everybody, tv mfrs, graphic card mfrs, avr mfrs, cable mfrs, etc get by with product claims and performance specs with "certification" so that they can claim "HDMI x.x compatibility" when in fact just the slightest modification by a device mfr for whatever reason can cause issues. If it's standardized then you shouldn't be able to modify it in any way unless you can prove it works across the board with all devices. It is a very complex and extremely frustrating issue and, as usual, the consumer is caught in the middle and dazzled by these marketing claims and performance promises.

I always said that HDMI 2.1 was going to be fraught with problems just looking at what happened with HDMI 2.0. And that we wouldn't really know how it all worked out until actual HDMI 2.1 devices were in the hands of consumers and not just being tested in some lab environment. Then the cable industry would have to figure out how to get it all to connect flawlessly.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. Every certified cable should work with every device of the same hardware version, but in reality it doesn't. In fact, to use HDMI.org's own words:
> 
> *"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*
> 
> HDMI, in general is a frickin' mess and I wish someone had've come up with a better and more robust connectivity option. And don't even get me started on HDCP. There is, as we speak, work on yet another HDMI hardware version but if the industry doesn't get its act together and work to really standardize the hardware and cable compatibility for better interoperability, these types of compatibility issues will continue.
> 
> I should have been more specific with the "certain setups" comment. What I meant is the wide range of tv's, receivers, soundbars, active/passive switches, cables, etc. that consumers use which can, and does, affect compatibility. Some have no issues, others have lots of issues, and others are in between.
> 
> What would be great is if the industry forced the same HDMI standards and implementation of those standards on all device mfrs, and actually made all of the HDMI features actual standards and not just options. Industry standards are developed by independent groups like IEEE, IETF, ANSI, INCITS, etc which pay to join industry groups. Ethernet, for example, is an industry standard (IEEE 802.1/.3), which is owned by a trade association.
> 
> Randomized testing and inspections would definitely be helpful but that is very costly and we all know that nobody is going to opt for that. Even the ATC testing of hardware/cable devices should be more comprehensive than just testing a large batch of devices and saying they are good to go. Even if one tested every 50 devices for example than just multiples of that number the failure rate would probably be a bit higher. But that is very costly so the likelyhood of "bad" devices hitting the marketplace is greater.
> 
> I'm not here to blindly defend the industry. They need to really step up and offer more trouble-free devices to the consumer, but the bottom line is what is driving this, which affects quality. I have actually received some interesting messages suggesting that I dial back some of my comments on tighter industry control and marketing techniques.
> 
> We are all in agreement that this is a mess, and claims by everybody, tv mfrs, graphic card mfrs, avr mfrs, cable mfrs, etc get by with product claims and performance specs with "certification" so that they can claim "HDMI x.x compatibility" when in fact just the slightest modification by a device mfr for whatever reason can cause issues. If it's standardized then you shouldn't be able to modify it in any way unless you can prove it works across the board with all devices. It is a very complex and extremely frustrating issue and, as usual, the consumer is caught in the middle and dazzled by these marketing claims and performance promises.
> 
> I always said that HDMI 2.1 was going to be fraught with problems just looking at what happened with HDMI 2.0. And that we wouldn't really know how it all worked out until actual HDMI 2.1 devices were in the hands of consumers and not just being tested in some lab environment. Then the cable industry would have to figure out how to get it all to connect flawlessly.


"I should have been more specific with the "certain setups" comment. What I meant is the wide range of tv's, receivers, soundbars, active/passive switches, cables, etc. that consumers use which can, and does, affect compatibility. Some have no issues, others have lots of issues, and others are in between. " Most always and or just not the cable.


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> Randomized testing and inspections would definitely be helpful but that is very costly and we all know that nobody is going to opt for that


I thought this is supposed to be in place with the HDMI cable testing program at least.
From a presentation on the Premium Cable program:
https://www.hdmi.org/download/openP...I_LA_Premium_Cable_General_Preso_20210101.pdf
"Requires continuing compliance with audit tests of in-market cables throughout the 
life of the product, and failing cables are removed from the label ordering system"

From press info:








A Look at the Official HDMI® Cable Certification Programs


Are the cables your company uses part of the licensed and comprehensive HDMI technology eco-system of compliance and assurance?




www.cepro.com




"Also, both programs include HDMI LA audits of marketplace cables to ensure that production cables continue to pass certification testing during their product lifetime."


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> I thought this is supposed to be in place with the HDMI cable testing program at least.
> From a presentation on the Premium Cable program:
> https://www.hdmi.org/download/openP...I_LA_Premium_Cable_General_Preso_20210101.pdf
> "Requires continuing compliance with audit tests of in-market cables throughout the
> life of the product, and failing cables are removed from the label ordering system"
> 
> From press info:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Look at the Official HDMI® Cable Certification Programs
> 
> 
> Are the cables your company uses part of the licensed and comprehensive HDMI technology eco-system of compliance and assurance?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cepro.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Also, both programs include HDMI LA audits of marketplace cables to ensure that production cables continue to pass certification testing during their product lifetime."


That's how it's supposed to work for the certified (QR labeled cables at least) but it would appear that HDMI LA is falling short of that or they just haven't had the staff to be more comprehensive in their auditing. One of the certified, passive UHS HDMI cable that I received from Zeskit failed after about a month. The certified, passive UHS HDMI cables from Ruipro are still going strong. Ruipro doesn't have certified active cables yet so we'll see how they fare once released.

This thread is a bt broad in its scope and doesn't really separate certified UHS HDMI cables from non-certified UHS HDMI cables so now that more choices are coming to the marketplace, passive as well as active, we'll just have to wait and see how it all falls out for the short vs long runs. I haven't been able to find what HDMI LA specifies as a representative sample of a batch of cables. If it's every 50 (an arbitrary number that I'm just throwing out) that's great. If it's every 500, not so much. The complaints, so far, have been against cables that the mfr has tested in-house to meet specs and stated as much in their literature. ATC certification may drastically change that for the better.

HDMI.org's excuse for failure is the statement that I posted above. I should go back and see if they have amended that yet now that we are getting more and more ATC certified cables. There may even be subtleties in testing requirements for hardware (chipsets) and cables designed to be compatible with said hardware.

There are even some who say the whole certification process is a sham, not really necessary, and that the cables should just work, period. I disagree with the first part but agree with the second part.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Well said Otto!


Thanks @Ratman .


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> With regards to conduit, it is painfully obvious that going forward, for those who have long runs, if one can not install conduit for their HDMI cabling, then they really need to consider an alternate way of running those long cable runs. And yes, I have said this many times before but it bears repeating..... Video technology will always outpace connection technology and you will be swapping out cables until you find one that works. So having easy access to your cabling is the only safe, and wise way to keep your shiny new HDMI 2.1 and beyond components playing nicely, because you can't depend on the cable mfrs to release cables that will just work for all devices, and keep pace with the industry who is great and convincing folks that they need this new technology now. If you think you can buy one cable now, that will last for 10 years with changes in technology, then you are going to be sorely disappointed.
> 
> As to the point of this thread, once cables were released that were claiming HDMI 2.1 compatibility I started posting information that I felt was useful and at least gave folks options to look into and things to think about. Ruipro had, and still does, an excellent reputation with their 4k cables and it stood to reason that their 8k cables would perform as well. And there are lots of folks who are succesfully using their Gen-3C cables with the 3080/3090 GPUs and panels like the LG CX. Cable Matters and Maxonar appear to work as well, for some, with certain setups.


Quite the exchange going on in here, hopefully there’s no hards feelings and keep it civil. I would not have installed a conduit when I was doing my remodel if I didn’t read your recommendation on getting one, thank you for that. I’m grateful to have it. I have the ruipro in the conduit and one on the floor both work great and almost perfect, I haven’t had any issues with the one on the floor. I’m happy to hear they’re going to make another better version. Their customer service has been solid and it’s good to know it’s there. I wish I had a cable matters version so I could get a feel for the differences. It’s crazy I force myself to find the time but in some way I feel like the information provided is useful.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> Over the past decade, no one apparently can meet the requirements of the consumer(s) that push the limits of the standards and hope for utopia.


That is not accurate. It sounds like a sweeping generalisation. I truly hope you do not believe one single word in that statement. Such idea is only welcomed if it was meant to provoke a debate (yet another opportunity to divert from cables, an opportunity that shall be criticised again?)

There are different kinds of consumers and they have different tech needs. Some consumers are actively asking for better, fancier and/or more capable products, waiting for companies to come up with improved designs and standards. One part of them are AV professionals who really need high-end gear for creative, production and editing workflows. Another part, a tiny one, of consumers often push the limits of devices for the sake of doing it - for fun. For example, PC users who overclock their computers, 8K TV owners who want to play games on a gargantuan TV, AVR owners who want to squeeze every single watt of power, nearing the clipping point or enthusiast photographers who push their cameras to the limit by shooting 15 photos per second, with each photo file having 200MB and their memory cards screaming "help". It's a tiny, tiny proportion of consumers. Other, more mainstream consumers simply purchase what is advertised and try to use it to the best of their ability, trusting that devices can deliver on features companies officially advertise, for example 4K120Hz 10-bit TV with 1000 nits of luminance or 48 Gbps cables.

In other instances, and quite often, consumers are actually not asked anything. New tech is being imposed from above for consumers to try to deal with its inherent flaws and immature solutions. This is called "tech gear for beta testers who earn us lots of money", for example new receivers that will probably be recalled soon for hardware change as a result of flaws in HDMI 2.1 chip. Two or more companies could compete with each other for market share or for being the first to introduce something by claiming to deliver sexy features in their products. In this case, some companies do not care too much whether any consumer is going to 'push the limits' in devices that companies themselves are not 100% sure whether all features would actually work. It was the big tech companies that pushed entire entertainment industry from 1080p to giant 4K displays. It was not the consumers who demanded 4K TVs. Vast majority of people on this planet neither have money to buy any 4K product, nor they asked for that shift towards 4K. Reality check; let that sink in.

We also know that some companies (again, not consumers) push the limits in marketing, with carefully crafted language by lawyers who only provide a service , overpromising on what can be delivered. It is not then surprising that we have disappointed consumers, if adverts do not match the performance of gear. That happened to Denon last year, overpromising on performance of single HDMI 2.1 port on their AV receivers. It was a self-made fiasco, as they released AVRs when there was no single HDMI 2.1 source on the market and they did not test the gear thoroughly for interoperability. Consumers who bought those receivers did not "hope for utopia"; far from that. Owners simply wanted to use the new port to connect their 4K devices, following what was officially advertised. There was not any of "pushing the limits" by consumers. It was the company that pushed the limits by not testing new tech and still deciding to sell it.

Linking back to certified cables, even if you had used one to push the image of 40 Gbps from the console through new AV receiver, you would have met with a black screen on your TV. This clearly showed that consumers were not hoping for any utopia, but to use advertised features. It was the company that was hoping to sell a utopian device.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> That is not accurate. It sounds like a sweeping generalisation. I truly hope you do not believe one single word in that statement.


I meant what I said and said what I meant. I was truthful 100%. 
🤡


----------



## Otto Pylot

@AVR Enthu Your post is well written but I think it is a little naive. I agree with what you say but the bottom line is that the device mfrs' and marketeers know how to manipulate the market so they push "what you need to have is this and why, and you need it now", with flashy pics and great product descriptions. Most of us old timers know better, but for the majority of the purchasing public they eat it up and buy whatever they read. It is fine to be an early adopter but there is a price to be paid for that.


----------



## AVR Enthu

New certified cables on the block from True HQ


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> New certified cables on the block from True HQ


Just another player in the "should work" marketplace. Again, certification does not guarantee compatibility. However, choices are good for the consumer.

Nothing new in the Vincent video that hasn't been said before on this forum.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> Just another player in the "should work" marketplace. Again, certification does not guarantee compatibility.


It's ok. Tested on RTX3080 and LG C9. It passes FRL6 signal of 48 Gbps. It works. No other devices in the consumer market are able to show 48 Gbps in as easy and user friendly way. He is not a cable tester either, but shows quick and easy check of the cable. Whoever can buy True HQ, just go for it. As they say, it's just a cable dude


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> It's ok. Tested on RTX3080 and LG C9. It passes FRL6 signal of 48 Gbps. It works. No other devices in the consumer market are able to show 48 Gbps in as easy and user friendly way. He is not a cable tester either, but shows quick and easy check of the cable. Whoever can buy True HQ, just go for it. As they say, it's just a cable dude


Quite a few folks have been testing their cables with the new Denon receivers and the C9's so nothing is new there. It is easy if one has those devices. At least the TrueHQ cables are available in Europe in case one can't find the Zeskit (passive UHS HDMI), the Ruipro (passive UHS HDMI), or the hybrid fiber Cable Matters and the soon-to-be-released certified Ruipro UHS HDMI cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Gee, what about your snarky remarks, oh yeah, those don't count. Gee, thought you may take a moment and not post the same thing over and over... and over. Eight quite days and someone post something meaningful and bam there's Otto posting unhelpful morphing platitudes.
> 
> "Nothing new in the" Otto post "that hasn't been said before on this forum." Nice addon for the save.


I get lots of pm's from forum members, mostly asking the same question because they don't post for their own reasons. So my posts are repetitive for those new members or non-posters who just need general information and/or clarification. The old timers around here know that and either skip over my posts or don't bother to respond.


----------



## AVR Enthu

How about a simple table with certified and uncertified cables and small comment, need there be? Keep it simple, repost every now and then, avoid repetition.

*Certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOB*Non-certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOBCable Matters (?)worksRuipro UHSMaxonar (2, 3, 5 m)worksTrue HQ (2, 3 m)worksUptab?Laser CB-HDMI18C-8K?Bivani (2, 3 m)?Zeskitworksothers...


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> How about a simple table with certified and uncertified cables and small comment, need there be? Keep it simple, repost every now and then, avoid repetition.
> 
> *Certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOB*Non-certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOBCable Matters (?)worksRuipro UHSMaxonar (2, 3, 5 m)worksTrue HQ (2, 3 m)worksUptab?Laser CB-HDMI18C-8K?Bivani (2, 3 m)?Zeskitworksothers...


It may be time to start a thread just for that and not pushing for certain brands just the cable you have and what you tested with.

Reliability and AOB could be something like As Tested. Then something like (RTX3080 to LG C9 4k-120Hz-12bit ) in the cell.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Exactly. And everyone could contribute to data points.

It's pointless to push for brands when we gather enough data points in one place. The amount of choices will grow as certified and functional cables are rolled out.


----------



## Tanquen

AVR Enthu said:


> Exactly. And everyone could contribute to data points.


It's kinda like what the OP was suggesting but I think he forgot about this tread. It would be a lot of work for someone to keep an OP in a tread up to date.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> It's kinda like what the OP was suggesting but I think he forgot about this tread. It would be a lot of work for someone to keep an OP in a tread up to date.


ARROW-AV stopped testing because it was too time consuming, costly, and there was no real general consensus, at least at the time they were actively testing various cables. ARROW-AV is a non-residential systems integration and design firm. They were curious about the various new cables and the claims that were being made. Testing cables was not and is not their primary focus. Their initial contributions were extremely helpful and appreciated by the forum members and some of the cable mfrs who contacted them to do independent, outside testing.


----------



## Tanquen

Otto Pylot said:


> ARROW-AV stopped testing because it was too time consuming, costly, and there was no real general consensus, at least at the time they were actively testing various cables. ARROW-AV is a non-residential systems integration and design firm. They were curious about the various new cables and the claims that were being made. Testing cables was not and is not their primary focus. Their initial contributions were extremely helpful and appreciated by the forum members and some of the cable mfrs who contacted them to do independent, outside testing.


Why?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Tanquen said:


> Why?


Why what?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Some may be interested why ARROW-AV is not testing or contributing to the thread that he started around June of 2019.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> How about a simple table with certified and uncertified cables and small comment, need there be? Keep it simple, repost every now and then, avoid repetition.
> 
> *Certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOB*Non-certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOBCable Matters (?)worksRuipro UHSMaxonar (2, 3, 5 m)worksTrue HQ (2, 3 m)worksUptab?Laser CB-HDMI18C-8K?Bivani (2, 3 m)?Zeskitworksothers...
> 
> 
> AVR Enthu said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about a simple table with certified and uncertified cables and small comment, need there be? Keep it simple, repost every now and then, avoid repetition.
> 
> *Certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOB*Non-certified Ultra High Speed Cables*Reliability and AOBCable Matters (?)worksRuipro UHSMaxonar (2, 3, 5 m)worksTrue HQ (2, 3 m)worksUptab?Laser CB-HDMI18C-8K?Bivani (2, 3 m)?Zeskitworksothers...
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can start a new thread of your own to avoid the repetition of this thread and outline the info you'd prefer to be shared by/with others.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Perhaps you can start a new thread of your own to avoid the repetition of this thread and outline the info you'd prefer to be shared by/with others.


That's a good idea. Fresh data would be helpful.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> Perhaps you can start a new thread of your own to avoid the repetition of this thread and outline the info you'd prefer to be shared by/with others.


It was an idea to consolidate some information in this thread, as new cables are coming out, not to start a new one. Nobody needs more of the same. I don't think people have time to read 50-60 pages here just to find out about 3 or 4 brands of cables. I hope there will be those who appreciate quick and easy access to information about currently available cables. The list of companies will be longer as time goes by. If some members do not like the idea with a simple table, it's fine too.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> It was an idea to consolidate some information in this thread, as new cables are coming out, not to start a new one. Nobody needs more of the same. I don't think people have time to read 50-60 pages here just to find out about 3 or 4 brands of cables. I hope there will be those who appreciate quick and easy access to information about currently available cables. The list of companies will be longer as time goes by. If some members do not like the idea with a simple table, it's fine too.


If I may make a suggestion, consolidating the information is a good idea, but it also might be a good idea to start an "Updated HDMI Cables for the HDMI 2.1 Options" thread or whatever.
That way it will be short to start with and as data is added it might be a little easier to search. A simple table is fine so one can quickly see what is available, certified or not, and how they performed in a real world setting. Just a thought.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> It was an idea to consolidate some information in this thread, as new cables are coming out, not to start a new one. Nobody needs more of the same. I don't think people have time to read 50-60 pages here just to find out about 3 or 4 brands of cables. I hope there will be those who appreciate quick and easy access to information about currently available cables. The list of companies will be longer as time goes by. If some members do not like the idea with a simple table, it's fine too.


It's a good idea. Start a new thread so there's no repetition. I agree, no one will read (or wants to read) 60 pages from the past 2 years. That's a reason for the repetition I suppose. 
Come up with a concept for a new thread and a chart for folks that will appreciate quick and easy access to info about currently available cables.

Your idea is fine. Go for it. If you need help, I'm sure "some members" will help with direction/suggestions. That's fine too.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> If I may make a suggestion, consolidating the information is a good idea, but it also might be a good idea to start an "Updated HDMI Cables for the HDMI 2.1 Options" thread or whatever.
> That way it will be short to start with and as data is added it might be a little easier to search. A simple table is fine so one can quickly see what is available, certified or not, and how they performed in a real world setting. Just a thought.


Look at the name of this very thread and you will realize that another thread does not make sense. It's not a rocket science to deserve several threads. It's about one single specification and cables that need to deliver 48 Gbps. There are growing number of brands capable of delivering just that and all that information could be found here. Members have already been kind to share with us here names of more brands doing up to 48 Gbps with capable devices.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Ratman said:


> Come up with a concept for a new thread


Let me try again. In the thread about HDMI 2.1 cables that are capable of delivering reliably up to 48 Gbps you do not want to see information about more brands being able to deliver what this thread is about. Have I got this right?

It does not need to be a chart at all. Who cares. That's just visual way of presenting data. New brands can be written in sentences. It has been done like that until now, as several members have shared capable cables from more brands with us. And rightly so. This trend will continue as there are more of capable cables emerging on the market.


----------



## Ratman

Quite clear. This thread will continue I suppose. 🤷‍♀️
(You suggested the table/chart BTW)

Provide suggestions as everyone else based on your experience(s). That's fine with everyone.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@AVR Enthu Your idea is a good one so no need to get aggressive about it. We're just offering suggestions. As @Ratman mentioned, you were the one who provided/suggested a table or chart and we were just following up on that.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> @AVR Enthu Your idea is a good one so no need to get aggressive about it. We're just offering suggestions. As @Ratman mentioned, you were the one who provided/suggested a table or chart and we were just following up on that.


There is no aggression anywhere. If a chart is not interesting, it's not interesting and we are moving on. Multiple threads about the same thing is digital waste.


----------



## Ratman

AVR Enthu said:


> If a chart is not interesting, it's not interesting and we are moving on.


It could be interesting and concise as "suggested". But apparently, no one wants to take on that task. So, hopefully we will now move on.


----------



## christofin

Another update 2+ weeks in, the Cable Matters 10m certified cable is still working flawlessly with my 3090 and LG C9 at 4K/120hz/444/10 bit. Not a single dropout. I'm really happy with the product.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> There is no aggression anywhere. If a chart is not interesting, it's not interesting and we are moving on. Multiple threads about the same thing is digital waste.


Ok. We'll see how it goes and if we can add anything new or positive we will. You are still open to suggestions aren't you?


----------



## Otto Pylot

christofin said:


> Another update 2+ weeks in, the Cable Matters 10m certified cable is still working flawlessly with my 3090 and LG C9 at 4K/120hz/444/10 bit. Not a single dropout. I'm really happy with the product.


Excellent. Keep us posted.


----------



## Rock Danger

He's not out of the running so to speak, there is some double secret probation going on in the background.

I think mofo have a certified fibre cable too up to 15m.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rock Danger said:


> He's not out of the running so to speak, there is some double secret probation going on in the background.
> 
> I think mofo have a certified fibre cable too up to 15m.


Don't understand your post. 

There are some other certified hybrid fiber cables coming to market very soon so the choices for consumers are increasing. Whether certification really makes a difference in the long run is still yet to be determined.


----------



## alebonau

christofin said:


> Another update 2+ weeks in, the Cable Matters 10m certified cable is still working flawlessly with my 3090 and LG C9 at 4K/120hz/444/10 bit. Not a single dropout. I'm really happy with the product.


hi is there a link to this specific cable ? i was unaware there was a 10m certified cable even in existence  would appreciate being pointed to it


----------



## christofin

alebonau said:


> hi is there a link to this specific cable ? i was unaware there was a 10m certified cable even in existence  would appreciate being pointed to it











Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific


Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> hi is there a link to this specific cable ? i was unaware there was a 10m certified cable even in existence  would appreciate being pointed to it


I see @christofin beat me to it  . There will be another certified, UHS HDMI cable coming to market in the next few weeks as well so choices are beginning to appear for the consumers. So far, the reports on the Cable Matters active hybrid fiber cables are favorable.


----------



## Wild Blue

Quite the thread here. A ways back, someone mentioned this cable, but nobody ever spoke up as to if they've tried it. Looks like a good solution, and I could use the extra bundling with it too.








8K Gaming Cables | USB Gaming Controllers Extender | IROVF






fibercommand-com.3dcartstores.com





Anyone tried it? Or their slightly more basic version?








best hdmi 2.1 cable | 4k hdmi gaming cable | 8k hdmi 30ft






fibercommand-com.3dcartstores.com


----------



## Rock Danger

Otto Pylot said:


> Don't understand your post.
> 
> There are some other certified hybrid fiber cables coming to market very soon so the choices for consumers are increasing. Whether certification really makes a difference in the long run is still yet to be determined.


I'm saying that Arrow is in fact keeping up with cables, he's just not posting about it right now. Yes, there are more cables coming, whether they work above 15m or at all remains to be seen. Ruipro's new 'certified cable' will be out in a week or 2.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rock Danger said:


> I'm saying that Arrow is in fact keeping up with cables, he's just not posting about it right now. Yes, there are more cables coming, whether they work above 15m or at all remains to be seen. Ruipro's new 'certified cable' will be out in a week or 2.


If ARROW-AV is in fact still testing cables that's good news. The last I heard they had stopped because it was too time consuming, costly, and not their primary focus. Independent testing outside of an ATC is always good for the consumer.

Yes, Ruipro will be releasing their certified, UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cable around the end of the month if they can get the testing done in time and there aren't any surprises. Their certified, UHS HDMI passive copper cable is apparently performing just fine.


----------



## fattire

Wild Blue said:


> Quite the thread here. A ways back, someone mentioned this cable, but nobody ever spoke up as to if they've tried it. Looks like a good solution, and I could use the extra bundling with it too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8K Gaming Cables | USB Gaming Controllers Extender | IROVF
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fibercommand-com.3dcartstores.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone tried it? Or their slightly more basic version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> best hdmi 2.1 cable | 4k hdmi gaming cable | 8k hdmi 30ft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fibercommand-com.3dcartstores.com


Expensive, but that's pretty slick. Just using a standard multi-strand fiber cable like I've used in data centers with different connection options on each end. That's a TON of fiber and some is unused if there are issue with individual strands to give a bit of redundancy. Additionally, those multi-strand fiber cables are SUPER tough; they're typically well built and can take a beating that the fiber HDMI cables we're familiar with just aren't engineered against.

I agree it would be awesome to get some real feedback on these for sure.


----------



## Rock Danger

Otto Pylot said:


> If ARROW-AV is in fact still testing cables that's good news. The last I heard they had stopped because it was too time consuming, costly, and not their primary focus. Independent testing outside of an ATC is always good for the consumer.
> 
> Yes, Ruipro will be releasing their certified, UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cable around the end of the month if they can get the testing done in time and there aren't any surprises. Their certified, UHS HDMI passive copper cable is apparently performing just fine.


Yep I'm giving him a hand but he's way too busy with his projector stuff to do anything formal right now and he's finishing up a Sony and Christie report. I'm just about to beat his ass on Xbox in about 10 mins.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Rock Danger said:


> Yep I'm giving him a hand but he's way too busy with his projector stuff to do anything formal right now and he's finishing up a Sony and Christie report. I'm just about to beat his ass on Xbox in about 10 mins.


Looking forward to the updated results.


----------



## AVR Enthu

I love the marketing "8K gaming cable"!
You will enjoy the cable with *10-11 FPS* on screen with RTX 3090 or 6900XT GPUs


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> I love the marketing "8K gaming cable"!
> You will enjoy the cable with *10-11 FPS* on screen with RTX 3090 or 6900XT GPUs


Yep. Marketing at its best. Unfortunately there are lots of folks who will buy into it. An all-in-one cable, for whatever you need. .


----------



## pioneer732

christofin said:


> Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific
> 
> 
> Buy Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 10m / 32.8 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I’m in for that! About half the price of the ruipro and just long enough for me. I really only 18 gbps for my projector, but I don’t want to run another cable in that crawl space in a few years. Only $20 more than the 18 gbs. Sold!


----------



## Otto Pylot

pioneer732 said:


> I’m in for that! About half the price of the ruipro and just long enough for me. I really only 18 gbps for my projector, but I don’t want to run another cable in that crawl space in a few years. Only $20 more than the 18 gbs. Sold!


Do keep in mind that the ONLY way to future proof is to use a conduit for in-wall installations because cable requirements may change once the problems are worked out with HDMI 2.1. So far, the installed Cable Matters cables are working fine but only time will tell how robust they are in the long run. For HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) I doubt if you will have any issues. Just be careful on your cable pull and do lay the cable out on the floor first and check it out thoroughly before you install.


----------



## Ellebob

I second the conduit. The other problem we have run into with active cables whether optical or not is sometimes they fail. There is a small circuit board inside them and that can die or be destroyed by a surge. If you can't do conduit, I would at least pull fiber as a back up unless you know that an optical cable can be cut and converted to a regular fiber optic connection and use a fiber HDMI extender (expensive), If it will not be easy to snake a cable later and walls are open now. Conduit is the smart play. This can't be overstated.


----------



## pioneer732

Otto Pylot said:


> Do keep in mind that the ONLY way to future proof is to use a conduit for in-wall installations because cable requirements may change once the problems are worked out with HDMI 2.1. So far, the installed Cable Matters cables are working fine but only time will tell how robust they are in the long run. For HDMI 2.0 (18Gbps) I doubt if you will have any issues. Just be careful on your cable pull and do lay the cable out on the floor first and check it out thoroughly before you install.


I would run conduit since it is quite uncomfortable to go in the crawl space ceiling above that room, however the drop down has an S bend that would make the conduit into 3 90° bends. I just have to be gentile and pray. With everything I’ve been through with the speaker wire, in-wall volume control, hub plate, and subwoofer cables, I can almost guarantee something will go wrong and I’ll be back in there. I really hate fishing cables now!!! If I knew then what I know now, I’m not sure I would have started this project. My hope is that it tastes that much sweeter when it’s all done.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pioneer732 said:


> I would run conduit since it is quite uncomfortable to go in the crawl space ceiling above that room, however the drop down has an S bend that would make the conduit into 3 90° bends. I just have to be gentile and pray. With everything I’ve been through with the speaker wire, in-wall volume control, hub plate, and subwoofer cables, I can almost guarantee something will go wrong and I’ll be back in there. I really hate fishing cables now!!! If I knew then what I know now, I’m not sure I would have started this project. My hope is that it tastes that much sweeter when it’s all done.


The "S" bends are still doable if you allow yourself some extra cabling to facilitate gentle 90º bends and don't pull the cables from the connector ends. Attach the body of the new cable to a pull string or the existing cable, secure the connector end from bending back on itself during the pull and just go slow, and use a pass-through wall plate for cable egress. This is especially true if you install an active cable.


----------



## shreddish

Can anyone recommend a cl2/3 rated HDMI2.0 or 2.1 cable that is 33 feet?

The cable matters options would be perfect however I have to run this through my walls and ceiling to my projector and it isn't cl rated. Are there even any cl rated active cables that run that long?

Usually I would do my due diligence as it looks like there's a lot of info in this thread but 90 pages of posts is a lot to comb through.


EDIT: for anyone else in my boat I did find this HDMI 2.0 one, however $100 vs $40 cable matters one is a bit rough

ruipro cable

Also found this one HDMI 2.0 again - the rupiro one above is a brand I see mentioned in this forum a couple times from what I can tell some think its reliable while others don't (don't want to get into that drama) I'm not sure about the quality of this brand but its only $40 bucks for CL3 rated 35 foot HDMI 2.0 - I need to run two cables so ill prob get one of each to save cost and hope this one works reliably
toptrend cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

shreddish said:


> Can anyone recommend a cl2/3 rated HDMI2.0 or 2.1 cable that is 33 feet?
> 
> The cable matters options would be perfect however I have to run this through my walls and ceiling to my projector and it isn't cl rated. Are there even any cl rated active cables that run that long?
> 
> Usually I would do my due diligence as it looks like there's a lot of info in this thread but 90 pages of posts is a lot to comb through.
> 
> 
> EDIT: for anyone else in my boat I did find this HDMI 2.0 one, however $100 vs $40 cable matters one is a bit rough
> 
> ruipro cable
> 
> Also found this one HDMI 2.0 again - the rupiro one above is a brand I see mentioned in this forum a couple times from what I can tell some think its reliable while others don't (don't want to get into that drama) I'm not sure about the quality of this brand but its only $40 bucks for CL3 rated 35 foot HDMI 2.0 - I need to run two cables so ill prob get one of each to save cost and hope this one works reliably
> toptrend cable


FWIW, unless you think you may have a building inspection sometime in the future, using a fire rated cable certainly restricts your choices. Fire rating is usually most important for HV cabling, not LV cabling but there is some disagreement on that. All cables can catch fire so it's not a fire-proofing solution. I believe the rating is 150v for CL2 and 300v for CL3. Fire rated cabling is also a bit stiffer due to the jacket requirements so there is some loss of flexibility.

If you are running cabling thru the walls then the use of a conduit is HIGHLY recommended if you can. That makes cable installation and upgrading a lot easier and safer because you want a single run, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. This is especially true if you are considering an active hybrid fiber cable.

Do you need a cable that is certified or approved for the HDMI 2.1 options? If your connected devices are all HDMI 2.0, and you don't have any plans on upgrading them to HDMI 2.1 in the near future, then an HDMI 2.0 cable will suffice. If you are thinking on "future proofing" your cabling, then the ONLY way to do that is with the use of a conduit. HDMI 2.1 is currently mostly for the gamers with the latest GPUs and game boxes.

Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.1), with a CL2 rated jacket in a few weeks. However, with most well made ATC certified active cable, it will be expensive. Ruipro does offer a few different cables so if you got that route, read the cable specs carefully to make it will meet your needs. What ever you choose, I would lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to installation, especially if you don't have conduit in place or plan on adding it. As I always say, there are no 100%bguarantees from any cable mfr.


----------



## shreddish

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, unless you think you may have a building inspection sometime in the future, using a fire rated cable certainly restricts your choices. Fire rating is usually most important for HV cabling, not LV cabling but there is some disagreement on that. All cables can catch fire so it's not a fire-proofing solution. I believe the rating is 150v for CL2 and 300v for CL3. Fire rated cabling is also a bit stiffer due to the jacket requirements so there is some loss of flexibility.
> 
> If you are running cabling thru the walls then the use of a conduit is HIGHLY recommended if you can. That makes cable installation and upgrading a lot easier and safer because you want a single run, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. This is especially true if you are considering an active hybrid fiber cable.
> 
> Do you need a cable that is certified or approved for the HDMI 2.1 options? If your connected devices are all HDMI 2.0, and you don't have any plans on upgrading them to HDMI 2.1 in the near future, then an HDMI 2.0 cable will suffice. If you are thinking on "future proofing" your cabling, then the ONLY way to do that is with the use of a conduit. HDMI 2.1 is currently mostly for the gamers with the latest GPUs and game boxes.
> 
> Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.1), with a CL2 rated jacket in a few weeks. However, with most well made ATC certified active cable, it will be expensive. Ruipro does offer a few different cables so if you got that route, read the cable specs carefully to make it will meet your needs. What ever you choose, I would lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to installation, especially if you don't have conduit in place or plan on adding it. As I always say, there are no 100%bguarantees from any cable mfr.


wow thank you for the detailed response - I don't plan on having inspection any time soon and I don't think adding conduit is possible. The basement was already finished when I bought the house. Additionally there's a bit of an awkward transition in the ceiling from the air duct. Right now I have the Optoma UHD60 projector and it only supports HDMI2.0 so [email protected] is my max anyway. No plans on upgrading that projector anytime soon so I think safe to say HDMI2.0 is all I need. From what I've read about the CL rating - like you said - its not a fire proofing but more of a smoke resistant toxic fumes thing. I wasn't sure what most people did, if the general consensus was "hey if its hdmi going in the wall make sure you get CL certified" no ifs ands or buts. Maybe I can save some money and just buy the cable matters 10m that isn't cl2 certified. Again thank you for the info!


----------



## Otto Pylot

shreddish said:


> wow thank you for the detailed response - I don't plan on having inspection any time soon and I don't think adding conduit is possible. The basement was already finished when I bought the house. Additionally there's a bit of an awkward transition in the ceiling from the air duct. Right now I have the Optoma UHD60 projector and it only supports HDMI2.0 so [email protected] is my max anyway. No plans on upgrading that projector anytime soon so I think safe to say HDMI2.0 is all I need. From what I've read about the CL rating - like you said - its not a fire proofing but more of a smoke resistant toxic fumes thing. I wasn't sure what most people did, if the general consensus was "hey if its hdmi going in the wall make sure you get CL certified" no ifs ands or buts. Maybe I can save some money and just buy the cable matters 10m that isn't cl2 certified. Again thank you for the info!


Without the use of a conduit, which is not possible in your case, then you will need to be very careful during the cable pull. You do not want any sharp, 90º bends as that can cause signal propagation issues (bent wiring) and you do not want to pull the cable by the connector end. It's best to attach what ever you are going to use as a pull string to the body of the new cable as close to the connector end as is reasonable then the secure the connector end for bending backwards on itself during the pull. If the existing cable is stapled to a joist or a stud, you won't be able to use the existing cable as a pull sting.

That being said, if the cable inside the wall is in the open space between the studs, and not
located next to HV wiring, then pulling is easier especially if you remove the j-box first or are adding a pass through j-box. Then you can just run the cable along the attic space (which is what I did in a previous house and down the other wall between studs). Or just egress at a point in the ceiling close to the pj. Using another pass through wall plate.

At 33', a passive cable will probably be a little stiff so you want to give yourself a bit extra length for bend radius and you also don't want to add any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Active cables are lot thinner and easier to work with but you have the added issue of the electronics in the connector ends. If you use an active cable, pay attention to how they are marked (source and sink/tv side). It is very easy to switch them around during installation. Don't ask me how I know that  .


----------



## raoul

This is post 1800 on this thread. I wish there was as sticky somewhere that had answers to "Which cable should I buy if.... " so that I wouldn't have to read all of this.... Forgive me fine people of AVS but...

I'm installing a 75ft run of HDMI to go from the AVR to the projector. Would like to keep it relatively future proof. I'll try to get a conduit installed as I do this so I can do the upgrades because that seems very sensible. What's the current consensus on which cable to get? I'd like to not be bandwidth constrained for future formats but really reliability is the most important thing here.


----------



## Ratman

Somewhere in the 1799 previous posts, I'm sure there's an answer.


----------



## Otto Pylot

raoul said:


> This is post 1800 on this thread. I wish there was as sticky somewhere that had answers to "Which cable should I buy if.... " so that I wouldn't have to read all of this.... Forgive me fine people of AVS but...
> 
> I'm installing a 75ft run of HDMI to go from the AVR to the projector. Would like to keep it relatively future proof. I'll try to get a conduit installed as I do this so I can do the upgrades because that seems very sensible. What's the current consensus on which cable to get? I'd like to not be bandwidth constrained for future formats but really reliability is the most important thing here.


The bottom line is that there is not one cable that is absolutely guaranteed to work, especially at 75'. Future proofing can only be accomplished by the use of a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit, and that seems what you want to do so you're good to go there. Everybody wants a definitive listing of which cables are best, at that's what ARROW-AV attempted to do admirably, but it just got to be too much with all of the cable mfrs out there, certified/non-certified cables, and the claims that the cable mfrs were making.

By not being bandwidth constrained I assume you mean a cable that can handle 48Gbps at 75'. If that's the case, then a hybrid fiber cable from either Ruipro, Cable Matters, or maybe even Maxonar is what you should look at. Those are all active cables so reliability can only be assessed over time, because as with all electronic devices, they can fail at some point. To help ensure reliability, the cable connection should be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between and no sharp, 90º bends in the run. If you're a gamer or want to use something like eARC, that can add to the challenge.

In theory, 75' should be a piece of cake with a fiber cable, but in reality it's not for various reasons. At least at this point in time.


----------



## raoul

Otto Pylot said:


> The bottom line is that there is not one cable that is absolutely guaranteed to work, especially at 75'. Future proofing can only be accomplished by the use of a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit, and that seems what you want to do so you're good to go there. Everybody wants a definitive listing of which cables are best, at that's what ARROW-AV attempted to do admirably, but it just got to be too much with all of the cable mfrs out there, certified/non-certified cables, and the claims that the cable mfrs were making.
> 
> By not being bandwidth constrained I assume you mean a cable that can handle 48Gbps at 75'. If that's the case, then a hybrid fiber cable from either Ruipro, Cable Matters, or maybe even Maxonar is what you should look at. Those are all active cables so reliability can only be assessed over time, because as with all electronic devices, they can fail at some point. To help ensure reliability, the cable connection should be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between and no sharp, 90º bends in the run. If you're a gamer or want to use something like eARC, that can add to the challenge.
> 
> In theory, 75' should be a piece of cake with a fiber cable, but in reality it's not for various reasons. At least at this point in time.


Thank you for the summary. I was afraid of "it depends" as an answer....

For my purposes I want a run from my AVR to my JVC to watch 4k (and at some point 8k) movies. Most important to me is to not have any hassle with it. Can't be worse than what I have with the DVDO AIR which is great for what it is but sometimes a flaky messenger during the HDMI negotiation between projector and AVR.

I'll look at the Ruipro and Cable Matters systems. I don't think I need any form of ARC because I move the signal in one direction from source to projector. Glad I'm not a gamer or I'd have to contend with that one!

Once again, thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

raoul said:


> Thank you for the summary. I was afraid of "it depends" as an answer....
> 
> For my purposes I want a run from my AVR to my JVC to watch 4k (and at some point 8k) movies. Most important to me is to not have any hassle with it. Can't be worse than what I have with the DVDO AIR which is great for what it is but sometimes a flaky messenger during the HDMI negotiation between projector and AVR.
> 
> I'll look at the Ruipro and Cable Matters systems. I don't think I need any form of ARC because I move the signal in one direction from source to projector. Glad I'm not a gamer or I'd have to contend with that one!
> 
> Once again, thanks!


75' can be difficult for any cable so anything you can do to keep the cable installation as simple as possible will be good. Even tho the Ultra High Speed HDMI cables say they can handle 8k that is probably more marketing than anything else. By the time 8k is mainstream, the cable and chip requirements will have changed so my guess is that what works today for 4k HDR won't necessarily work for 8k. Which brings me back to the use of a conduit.....


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## foshizzle

I've been using my 33ft ruipro gen 3b cable fine for months.

But I recently upgraded my video card and I'm getting very faint flickers randomnly. It happens maybe 4-8 times an hour while using the desktop, but happens 3-4 times a minute when in a game.

I've used another 3ft cable and that is working fine. How does RMA work? Do I have to send in my current cable first?


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> I've been using my 33ft ruipro gen 3b cable fine for months.
> 
> But I recently upgraded my video card and I'm getting very faint flickers randomnly. It happens maybe 4-8 times an hour.
> 
> I've used another 3ft cable and that is working fine.


Depending on the video card you may want to contact Ruipro and mention that to them. Their Gen-3C cable has been modified a bit to be more compatible with certain GPUs. At 3', you shouldn't have any issues with just about any well made cable.


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## raoul

I miss DVI


foshizzle said:


> I've been using my 33ft ruipro gen 3b cable fine for months.
> 
> But I recently upgraded my video card and I'm getting very faint flickers randomnly. It happens maybe 4-8 times an hour while using the desktop, but happens 3-4 times a minute when in a game.
> 
> I've used another 3ft cable and that is working fine. How does RMA work? Do I have to send in my current cable first?


DVI was so much better!


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## Otto Pylot

raoul said:


> I miss DVI
> 
> 
> DVI was so much better!


It is unfortunate that the industry is so locked into HDMI because it would be nice to have DVI as an option on any device that also has HDMI.


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## foshizzle

I've been out of this thread for a while. Are there other manufacturers that have reliable hdmi 2.1 cables for 25 feet or longer?


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## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> It is unfortunate that the industry is so locked into HDMI because it would be nice to have DVI as an option on any device that also has HDMI.


Single link, dual link, with or without HDCP and of course.... there's that digital audio thing.
Don't forget the big/clunky connectors. 😁


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## foshizzle

RuthlessNate said:


> Just want to add another confirmation. I bought one of these and tested it with my PS5 and C9. The PS5 read the cable as being capable of [email protected] with HDR, same as the cable Sony provided with the system.
> 
> Cable Matters Active 48Gbps Ultra HD 8K Long HDMI Cable with HDR for PS5, Xbox Series X/S, RTX3080 / 3090, RX 6800/6900, Apple TV, and More - 25 ft / 7.5m
> 
> 
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GQDKR81/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> 
> 
> Now to remove the old cables, run some conduit, and make sure 25 feet is long enough before I replace the rest of the cables.


Anyone else have good experience with this cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> Anyone else have good experience with this cable?


The few reports from actual users seems to be favorable. The cable is still new so reliability (time of use) is still to be determined. Did you contact Ruipro? They are really good a replacing cables. If the cable worked before without issues, and the only change is the graphics card, then it could be an incompatibility with the card, and their 3C cable may work better. They are really good at working with the customer.


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## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> The few reports from actual users seems to be favorable. The cable is still new so reliability (time of use) is still to be determined. Did you contact Ruipro? They are really good a replacing cables. If the cable worked before without issues, and the only change is the graphics card, then it could be an incompatibility with the card, and their 3C cable may work better. They are really good at working with the customer.


Yeah, contacted them through amazon. Just looking at other options in case their cable doesn't work for me.


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## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> Yeah, contacted them through amazon. Just looking at other options in case their cable doesn't work for me.


Try Cable Matters if the replacement Ruipro 3C doesn't work as expected.


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## Ellebob

DVI is not coming back and HDMI is built off DVI. HDMI added audio and deleted the analog vga portion of DVI. DVI would have the same problems as HDMI if it was trying to use the same bandwidth. They both use 8b/10b encoding which I worked with 30+ years ago. I am dating myself now 
I am happy DVI is gone the connector was huge and difficult to run in walls 🤪


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## alebonau

Ellebob said:


> DVI is not coming back and HDMI is built off DVI. HDMI added audio and deleted the analog vga portion of DVI. DVI would have the same problems as HDMI if it was trying to use the same bandwidth. They both use 8b/10b encoding which I worked with 30+ years ago. I am dating myself now
> I am happy DVI is gone the connector was huge and difficult to run in walls 🤪


Glad see back of that too ... the scourge of a bent pin  be gone ....


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## StephenBishop

Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed 48Gbps 50ft 15m phoossno HDR eARC Support NVIDIA 3080 3090 to LG Sony 4K 120HZ 8K60HZ Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC: Industrial & Scientific 

Second 15 meter certified 8K 2.1 UHS cable (after the uber expensive Wireworld Stellar)? Never heard of this brand though! Any views?


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed 48Gbps 50ft 15m phoossno HDR eARC Support NVIDIA 3080 3090 to LG Sony 4K 120HZ 8K60HZ Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC: Industrial & Scientific
> 
> Second 15 meter certified 8K 2.1 UHS cable (after the uber expensive Wireworld Stellar)? Never heard of this brand though! Any views?


If the cable has a verifiable QR label, then in theory, it should work just fine. Now that HDMI LA approved AOC certification programs are available, more and more cable mfrs will be taking advantage of the "need" for ATC certified AOC cables so you'll start seeing more and more choices. What will separate the cable mfrs is the use of "off the shelf" components instead of proprietary components, which are more expensive. All certified cables have to meet the same set of standards but it's the quality of the components (reliability over time) and cable construction that makes the difference. Also, the customer support and responsiveness to the customer's needs is also important, and a cost factor.

Phoossno is owned by Shenzhen Dongmi Future Trading Co. and is relatively new in the AOC cable business.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Phoossno is owned by Shenzhen Dongmi Future Trading Co. and is relatively new in the AOC cable business.


I picked up the name of the manufacturer from the Amazon website. However a Google search reveals next to no info on the company. Also no info on warranty.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> I picked up the name of the manufacturer from the Amazon website. However a Google search reveals next to no info on the company. Also no info on warranty.


Yeah, if you can't find direct company info like a support page or any warranty information I'd look elsewhere. Amazon is just a reseller and doesn't check with the seller for accuracy of their product claims other than making them jump thru hoops to offer their products on Amazon.

If you think you need or want a certified hybrid fiber cable, I'd look to Ruipro (whose certified cable should be released by the end of the month), Cable Matters, or Maxonar. Certified copper-based UHS HDMI cables would either be Ruipro or Zeskit.


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## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, if you can't find direct company info like a support page or any warranty information I'd look elsewhere. Amazon is just a reseller and doesn't check with the seller for accuracy of their product claims other than making them jump thru hoops to offer their products on Amazon.
> 
> If you think you need or want a certified hybrid fiber cable, I'd look to Ruipro (whose certified cable should be released by the end of the month), Cable Matters, or Maxonar. Certified copper-based UHS HDMI cables would either be Ruipro or Zeskit.


The price of the Phoossno 15m certified UHS cable is far cheaper than the uncertified Ruipro equivalent (about 30% cheaper). I am going to give it a try and will return to Amazon if there are problems within the return window. 
I am particularly concerned with the heat on the Ruipro source connector. Heat is a killer for electronics. If the Phoossno works and runs cooler than the Ruipro, then I will keep the Phoossno. If not, I will return it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> The price of the Phoossno 15m certified UHS cable is far cheaper than the uncertified Ruipro equivalent (about 30% cheaper). I am going to give it a try and will return to Amazon if there are problems within the return window.
> I am particularly concerned with the heat on the Ruipro source connector. Heat is a killer for electronics. If the Phoossno works and runs cooler than the Ruipro, then I will keep the Phoossno. If not, I will return it.


Which ever cable works is the best cable for you. Reliability will be proven over time given the connected devices and the quality of the cable build. The "heat issue" with the Ruipro cables is not a proven problem with all Ruipro 8k cables. There are lots of the 8k cables in the wild and only a couple of issues that have been related to heat. But whether that heat is actually generated by the cable or is a transferred heat issue (due to poor heat dissipation design) from the GPU is unknown. I don't have HDMI 2.1 devices but have been using the 8k cables (Gen-3C) for months now for testing purposes and daily use and have not noticed any heat issues. Keep in mind that there are two components to cables. The body and the connector ends. The connector ends can be purchased from one or two mfrs that offer ATC certified connectors without proprietary modifications but the cable body can be made from cheaper components to keep costs down. Also some of these companies that offer low cost UHS HDMI cables buy in bulk, sell what they have, and then disappear so any warranty/support questions will be difficult to do.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Which ever cable works is the best cable for you. Reliability will be proven over time given the connected devices and the quality of the cable build. The "heat issue" with the Ruipro cables is not a proven problem with all Ruipro 8k cables. There are lots of the 8k cables in the wild and only a couple of issues that have been related to heat. But whether that heat is actually generated by the cable or is a transferred heat issue (due to poor heat dissipation design) from the GPU is unknown. I don't have HDMI 2.1 devices but have been using the 8k cables (Gen-3C) for months now for testing purposes and daily use and have not noticed any heat issues. Keep in mind that there are two components to cables. The body and the connector ends. The connector ends can be purchased from one or two mfrs that offer ATC certified connectors without proprietary modifications but the cable body can be made from cheaper components to keep costs down. Also some of these companies that offer low cost UHS HDMI cables buy in bulk, sell what they have, and then disappear so any warranty/support questions will be difficult to do.


I definitely have a heat issue with the Ruipro uncertified 2.1 15m cable at the source connector end from a 3080 VP. It gets pretty hot to touch. Totally proven. Per Ruipro this is to be expected and is normal for this cable and it works fine at present but my concern is for how long.

My uncertified Ruipro 2.0 15m cable also was hot to touch and died after 4 years. Ruipro customer service is without doubt first rate and they replaced it at no cost to me without question under their lifetime warranty. Really very good customer service.

I will know more about relative heat issues very quickly once I install the Phoossno.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> I definitely have a heat issue with the Ruipro uncertified 2.1 15m cable at the source connector end from a 3080 VP. It gets pretty hot to touch. Totally proven. Per Ruipro this is to be expected and is normal for this cable and it works fine at present but my concern is for how long.
> 
> My uncertified Ruipro 2.0 15m cable also was hot to touch and died after 4 years. Ruipro customer service is without doubt first rate and they replaced it at no cost to me without question under their lifetime warranty. Really very good customer service.
> 
> I will know more about relative heat issues very quickly once I install the Phoossno.


Interesting. I have not seen that at all with my un-certified Ruipro cables (HDMI 2.0 options) or the 8k cables. Even their certified UHS HDMI cables (passive, HDMI 2.1 options) remain cool. If the cables really do heat up that much then hopefully their certified UHS HDMI cables will have better heat dissipation whether it comes from the chipset or is transferred. Sounds like pushing 40Gbps from source to sink is creating the heat.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Interesting. I have not seen that at all with my un-certified Ruipro cables (HDMI 2.0 options) or the 8k cables. Even their certified UHS HDMI cables (passive, HDMI 2.1 options) remain cool. If the cables really do heat up that much then hopefully their certified UHS HDMI cables will have better heat dissipation whether it comes from the chipset or is transferred. Sounds like pushing 40Gbps from source to sink is creating the heat.


Just to be clear, my Ruipro cables (whether the uncertified 2.1 or 2.0 cables) do not heat up - the source connectors do.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Just to be clear, my Ruipro cables (whether the uncertified 2.1 or 2.0 cables) do not heat up - the source connectors do.


Yeah, I understood that . When you say the source connector you are referring to the end connected to the GPU side of things and not the tv? Do you see any heat generated when the source has the HDMI 2.0 chipsets?


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, I understood that . When you say the source connector you are referring to the end connected to the GPU side of things and not the tv? Do you see any heat generated when the source has the HDMI 2.0 chipsets?


Correct, by source connector I mean the cable connector connected to my 3080 video processor not the cable connector connected to my 2.0 projector. 

I am noticing the heat issues with the source connectors on both the 2.1 and 2.0 15m uncertified Ruipro AOC cables. I have not tried connecting a 2.0 source directly to the projector using a Ruipro 2.1 cable but did not seem to have heat issues for the last 4 years when I connected a 2.0 source to a 2.0 projector using the Ruipro 2.0 cable.


----------



## foshizzle

Otto Pylot said:


> The few reports from actual users seems to be favorable. The cable is still new so reliability (time of use) is still to be determined. Did you contact Ruipro? They are really good a replacing cables. If the cable worked before without issues, and the only change is the graphics card, then it could be an incompatibility with the card, and their 3C cable may work better. They are really good at working with the customer.


Ruipro sent me a replacement cable gen 3c. It works well and I don't have flicker anymore.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Correct, by source connector I mean the cable connector connected to my 3080 video processor not the cable connector connected to my 2.0 projector.
> 
> I am noticing the heat issues with the source connectors on both the 2.1 and 2.0 15m uncertified Ruipro AOC cables. I have not tried connecting a 2.0 source directly to the projector using a Ruipro 2.1 cable but did not seem to have heat issues for the last 4 years when I connected a 2.0 source to a 2.0 projector using the Ruipro 2.0 cable.


If possible, I would try to connect an HDMI 2.0 source to the pj and see if there is heat generated at the source equal to what you see with the HDMI 2.1 source. If not, then the GPU is just putting out more heat than the cable is designed to handle, and that is one of the heat dissipation issues that Ruipro is trying to work around with. Other cable mfrs UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables may have a better heat dissipation design than the current Ruipro cables do. Hopefully that's been resolved with the new certified UHS HDMI cables that are soon to be released. That being said, it would appear that the GPUs also need a better heat dissipation design as well. As a test, you could keep an external fan blowing on the HDMI port of your pc just to see if cooling it down helps. If it does, at least you'd have an answer but not necessarily a resolution to the problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

foshizzle said:


> Ruipro sent me a replacement cable gen 3c. It works well and I don't have flicker anymore.


Excellent. Hopefully it will stay reliable over time.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> If possible, I would try to connect an HDMI 2.0 source to the pj and see if there is heat generated at the source equal to what you see with the HDMI 2.1 source. If not, then the GPU is just putting out more heat than the cable is designed to handle, and that is one of the heat dissipation issues that Ruipro is trying to work around with. Other cable mfrs UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables may have a better heat dissipation design than the current Ruipro cables do. Hopefully that's been resolved with the new certified UHS HDMI cables that are soon to be released. That being said, it would appear that the GPUs also need a better heat dissipation design as well. As a test, you could keep an external fan blowing on the HDMI port of your pc just to see if cooling it down helps. If it does, at least you'd have an answer but not necessarily a resolution to the problem.


Thanks for the advice, Otto Pylot. Too much of an effort to connect a HDMI 2.0 source to the pj, have a fan blowing at the connector, etc. May have to do it later but for now, I am waiting for the certified 2.1 UHS AOC from phoossno and will see how it behaves vs the uncertified 2.1 Gen 3/C Ruipro AOC viz the heat at the source connector.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Thanks for the advice, Otto Pylot. Too much of an effort to connect a HDMI 2.0 source to the pj, have a fan blowing at the connector, etc. May have to do it later but for now, I am waiting for the certified 2.1 UHS AOC from phoossno and will see how it behaves vs the uncertified 2.1 Gen 3/C Ruipro AOC viz the heat at the source connector.


As far as the pj goes, there have been reports of some pj's not playing nice with active cables over a given distance. The thought is that the HDMI port current fluctuates just enough to mess with the chipsets in the connector end of the HDMI cable. A voltage inserter, which goes between the HDMI port and the HDMI cable provides are more consistent current output which compensates for current fluctuations. Ruipro ships voltage inserters with their hybrid fiber cables so if you got one, it might be worth a shot. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't but you can't hurt anything. All you need is an available USB port as a power source and connect it.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> As far as the pj goes, there have been reports of some pj's not playing nice with active cables over a given distance. The thought is that the HDMI port current fluctuates just enough to mess with the chipsets in the connector end of the HDMI cable. A voltage inserter, which goes between the HDMI port and the HDMI cable provides are more consistent current output which compensates for current fluctuations. Ruipro ships voltage inserters with their hybrid fiber cables so if you got one, it might be worth a shot. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't but you can't hurt anything. All you need is an available USB port as a power source and connect it.


The uncertified 2.1 Ruipro Gen 3/C AOC that I am presently using is not presently creating any issues displaying images. The problem is the heat at the source connector possibly causing problems in the future. I doubt very much the voltage inserter at the display end will have any impact on the heat at the source connector!


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> The uncertified 2.1 Ruipro Gen 3/C AOC that I am presently using is not presently creating any issues displaying images. The problem is the heat at the source connector possibly causing problems in the future. I doubt very much the voltage inserter at the display end will have any impact on the heat at the source connector!


You are correct it won't, but I was unclear as to whether you were currently having issues or not. If not, just monitor it and see if the other cable runs a bit cooler. If it is transferred heat from the GPU then there's not much you can do. At least you've documented the issue with Ruirpo, which offers a lifetime warranty. Let us know how the other cable works.


----------



## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> You are correct it won't, but I was unclear as to whether you were currently having issues or not. If not, just monitor it and see if the other cable runs a bit cooler. If it is transferred heat from the GPU then there's not much you can do. At least you've documented the issue with Ruirpo, which offers a lifetime warranty. Let us know how the other cable works.


Hi otto pylot, I have a few questions for you. When you say, pull the HDMI cable from the body and not the connector end are you referring to the body as the cable itself right behind the male connector assembly? Looks like i may be replacing my 25 to 30ft inwall rated 10yr old BlueRigger HDMI cable. It worked with my Yamaha RX-V671 1080P AVR hooked to my sony A8H 4k TV but when I installed my new Denon x3700h AVR I didn't get no picture to the TV so I'm thinking the HDMI cable is not compatible with the new AVR for the distance of 25 to 30ft. I hooked up a portable TV to the new avr with a 4ft HDMI cable and it worked fine. What HDMI cable would you recommend for my setup. I have inwall 1.5" flex hose similar to a vac hose that is not smooth on the inside and when I used a fish tape to pull my BlueRigger HDMI through it wasn't easy with the inside roughness of the hose. If I replace the old hdmi with the new one I was going to use the old inwall rated BlueRigger cable to pull the new one through by over lapping the two ends by 4inches and using electric tape to connect the two cables together, making sure the ends are tape good so maybe they won't hang up to bad. I know by doing this will take up more space inside the 1.5" hose. I would like to butt the two cable ends together to make a easier pull but not sure how to go about that because they may pull apart. How fragile is the new ultra high speed cables with pulling against and what ones would you recommend. I appreciate your time and information.


----------



## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Hi otto pylot, I have a few questions for you. When you say, pull the HDMI cable from the body and not the connector end are you referring to the body as the cable itself right behind the male connector assembly? Looks like i may be replacing my 25 to 30ft inwall rated 10yr old BlueRigger HDMI cable. It worked with my Yamaha RX-V671 1080P AVR hooked to my sony A8H 4k TV but when I installed my new Denon x3700h AVR I didn't get no picture to the TV so I'm thinking the HDMI cable is not compatible with the new AVR for the distance of 25 to 30ft. I hooked up a portable TV to the new avr with a 4ft HDMI cable and it worked fine. What HDMI cable would you recommend for my setup. I have inwall 1.5" flex hose similar to a vac hose that is not smooth on the inside and when I used a fish tape to pull my BlueRigger HDMI through it wasn't easy with the inside roughness of the hose. If I replace the old hdmi with the new one I was going to use the old inwall rated BlueRigger cable to pull the new one through by over lapping the two ends by 4inches and using electric tape to connect the two cables together, making sure the ends are tape good so maybe they won't hang up to bad. I know by doing this will take up more space inside the 1.5" hose. I would like to butt the two cable ends together to make a easier pull but not sure how to go about that because they may pull apart. How fragile is the new ultra high speed cables with pulling against and what ones would you recommend. I appreciate your time and information.


Ok, when I've pulled cable I attached the pull string (in your case it will be the old cable) to the body of the cable behind the connector ends. I think it was about an inch or two behind. The idea is to secure the cable bodies to each other but not to the connector ends. You can then secure the connector end to each other so that they don't bend back when pulling around a corner. 

The 10 year old cable should still work for HD material with the new receiver if your tv and avr settings are correct, unless the cable is damaged. Is the current cable passive or active?

Your conduit should work but the fact that you didn't use a conduit that had smooth interior walls does make it more challenging. You will just have to pull really slow so you don't get the cable hung up on the ridges. I think there is some sort of lubricant that you can use to facilitate the pull but I've not looked into that because I didn't need it.

The fragility of active, hybrid fiber cables is a loaded question. On the one hand, the cables are very thin which means their bend radius (flexibility) is far better than a copper-based cable, so it is better to fish and install in tight places. On the other hand, because they are active, there are chipsets in the connector ends that MAY be damaged (wires/connectors coming loose, etc.) if the cable is pulled too hard from the connector end. The same could be said for passive cables but they just seem to be a bit more tolerant with pulls through long conduits. 

As far as recommendations go, I've always had good luck with cables from Ruipro and most reports here are very favorable. Cable Matters makes a very good UHS HDMI cable as does Maxonar. Both are relatively new to the UHS HDMI market so their user base is not as established as Ruipro is, so there aren't a lot of actual consumer reports yet, but my guess is that they will perform just as well over time, maybe even better. If you don't need UHS HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets), then there are a few more options for hybrid fiber cables or active copper-based cables that support the HDMI 2.0 option sets. As I have mentioned many times, there are no guarantees for long cable runs. A lot depends on the connected devices, how the cable is installed, and what you are trying to push.

The most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders etc in-between, and no sharp, 90º bends. This is especially true for active cables. That's not to say that those types of connections won't or can't work, but they can introduce issues. The less complicated your cable connection is, the better your chances are for longevity (reliability). What ever cable you get, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure that it meets your needs and expectations prior to installation.


----------



## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> Ok, when I've pulled cable I attached the pull string (in your case it will be the old cable) to the body of the cable behind the connector ends. I think it was about an inch or two behind. The idea is to secure the cable bodies to each other but not to the connector ends. You can then secure the connector end to each other so that they don't bend back when pulling around a corner.
> 
> The 10 year old cable should still work for HD material with the new receiver if your tv and avr settings are correct, unless the cable is damaged. Is the current cable passive or active?
> 
> Your conduit should work but the fact that you didn't use a conduit that had smooth interior walls does make it more challenging. You will just have to pull really slow so you don't get the cable hung up on the ridges. I think there is some sort of lubricant that you can use to facilitate the pull but I've not looked into that because I didn't need it.
> 
> The fragility of active, hybrid fiber cables is a loaded question. On the one hand, the cables are very thin which means their bend radius (flexibility) is far better than a copper-based cable, so it is better to fish and install in tight places. On the other hand, because they are active, there are chipsets in the connector ends that MAY be damaged (wires/connectors coming loose, etc.) if the cable is pulled too hard from the connector end. The same could be said for passive cables but they just seem to be a bit more tolerant with pulls through long conduits.
> 
> As far as recommendations go, I've always had good luck with cables from Ruipro and most reports here are very favorable. Cable Matters makes a very good UHS HDMI cable as does Maxonar. Both are relatively new to the UHS HDMI market so their user base is not as established as Ruipro is, so there aren't a lot of actual consumer reports yet, but my guess is that they will perform just as well over time, maybe even better. If you don't need UHS HDMI cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets), then there are a few more options for hybrid fiber cables or active copper-based cables that support the HDMI 2.0 option sets. As I have mentioned many times, there are no guarantees for long cable runs. A lot depends on the connected devices, how the cable is installed, and what you are trying to push.
> 
> The most reliable connection will be a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders etc in-between, and no sharp, 90º bends. This is especially true for active cables. That's not to say that those types of connections won't or can't work, but they can introduce issues. The less complicated your cable connection is, the better your chances are for longevity (reliability). What ever cable you get, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure that it meets your needs and expectations prior to installation.


Thanks for the information. I looked into my BlueRigger cable on Amazon were I bought it and couldn't find information on it from the manufacturer if it was active or passive but the question was asked on the sight with mixed answers mostly they said it was passive, I would lean that direction too. I plan on unhooking the x3700h from the media closet and put it near the sony A8H TV and hook the two up with a short HDMI cable and see if the two will work together that way, just to see if the problem is the BlueRigger cable or not. Like I said earlier the X3700H worked with a old portable TV . I will just have to see if x3700h will work with the newer sony A8H TV with a different HDMI cable.


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## fattire

Otto Pylot said:


> Your conduit should work but the fact that you didn't use a conduit that had smooth interior walls does make it more challenging.


The best trick I've found for fishing any kind of cable with a pre-terminated end through conduit with ridges is more electrical tape. These cables all come with protectors for the actual plug that is inserted into the source/sink.

First, use a bit of tape to secure that protector to the connector. Then, secure the cables to one another as you describe. The trick is to then build up some additional electrical tape on the lead connector to form a bit of a ramp between the pulling cable and the trailing connector. This ramp will help keep the hard, 90-degree edges of the connector from snagging quite so easily. It's still more difficult than smooth conduit but not nearly as bad as a bare connector.


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for the information. I looked into my BlueRigger cable on Amazon were I bought it and couldn't find information on it from the manufacturer if it was active or passive but the question was asked on the sight with mixed answers mostly they said it was passive, I would lean that direction too. I plan on unhooking the x3700h from the media closet and put it near the sony A8H TV and hook the two up with a short HDMI cable and see if the two will work together that way, just to see if the problem is the BlueRigger cable or not. Like I said earlier the X3700H worked with a old portable TV . I will just have to see if x3700h will work with the newer sony A8H TV with a different HDMI cable.


Active cables are directional in that you can only install them in one direction. The connector ends are usually marked as Source and Sink, or TV. They are thinner because they don't require the wire gauge needed due to the fact that they draw power from the HDMI port for the chipsets in the connector ends, hence the active terminology.

Passive cables will have a thicker wire gauge as they get longer to maintain signal propagation. As such, they will be thicker and less flexible which has its own set of issues. I prefer to use passive cables whenever possible because the active cables, be they copper only or hybrid fiber have electronics in the connectors which just provides another layer of complexity when it comes to compatibility and reliability over time. Any electronic device can fail over time so that's why it's critical to have a good installation plan in place for replacing/upgrading cables when and if the time comes. However, given the cable length that a lot of folks need now, and the gamers who want to use some of the HDMI 2.1 options that are available from a given distance, active hybrid fiber cables are almost a requirement now.


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## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> Active cables are directional in that you can only install them in one direction. The connector ends are usually marked as Source and Sink, or TV. They are thinner because they don't require the wire gauge needed due to the fact that they draw power from the HDMI port for the chipsets in the connector ends, hence the active terminology.
> 
> Passive cables will have a thicker wire gauge as they get longer to maintain signal propagation. As such, they will be thicker and less flexible which has its own set of issues. I prefer to use passive cables whenever possible because the active cables, be they copper only or hybrid fiber have electronics in the connectors which just provides another layer of complexity when it comes to compatibility and reliability over time. Any electronic device can fail over time so that's why it's critical to have a good installation plan in place for replacing/upgrading cables when and if the time comes. However, given the cable length that a lot of folks need now, and the gamers who want to use some of the HDMI 2.1 options that are available from a given distance, active hybrid fiber cables are almost a requirement now.


In that case my BlueRigger is a passive HDMI cable. I will not be using my setup for gaming, I just want a HDMI cable to get the best picture that my TV is capable of showing 4k maybe 8k later on and being able to handle my AVR capabilities (minus the gaming). Also handshake between the two with earc. Sounds like I may have more issues with the active cable long term, with it being fairly new compared to the passive cable. I will be doing more troubleshooting with my system in a couple of days.


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## Jordyn11

StephenBishop said:


> Thanks for the advice, Otto Pylot. Too much of an effort to connect a HDMI 2.0 source to the pj, have a fan blowing at the connector, etc. May have to do it later but for now, I am waiting for the certified 2.1 UHS AOC from phoossno and will see how it behaves vs the uncertified 2.1 Gen 3/C Ruipro AOC viz the heat at the source connector.


Let us know how the phoossno cable goes. I am also in the market for a 15m cable to run from my 3090 to a LG C9 so will be really interested in the results.


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## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> In that case my BlueRigger is a passive HDMI cable. I will not be using my setup for gaming, I just want a HDMI cable to get the best picture that my TV is capable of showing 4k maybe 8k later on and being able to handle my AVR capabilities (minus the gaming). Also handshake between the two with earc. Sounds like I may have more issues with the active cable long term, with it being fairly new compared to the passive cable. I will be doing more troubleshooting with my system in a couple of days.


Keep in mind that the cable can not improve pq regardless of the type of cable or the marketing hype of the cable mfr. You either get the original signal as encoded or not. No sparkles or audio/video dropouts. At 25'-30' you probably should consider an active cable, probably hybrid fiber instead of active copper, especially if you want to use eARC, which can have issues at about the 10m (30') point and beyond. Active cables really are fairly stable over the long term. I just mentioned the possible issues as a data point for future reference. I used active cables from Monoprice for years without any issues even though I really didn't need them but was still learning about all of this. As long as you have a system in place to easily and safely replace your cabling, you'll be fine. And speaking of active cables, most active cable mfrs do not recommend daisy chaining them, so your best to plan for a single run with nothing in-between source and sink but the cable. That may mean planning for a length a bit longer than you think you'll need. 

I wouldn't worry about 8k. There are no guarantees that what you buy today will be sufficient for the higher video standards once they are commercially available and out in the wild. What is "certified" in a laboratory testing setting can perform very differently with the wide variety of connected consumer devices and setups that are available.


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Let us know how the phoossno cable goes. I am also in the market for a 15m cable to run from my 3090 to a LG C9 so will be really interested in the results.


Just received it late yesterday. Almost returned it immediately because I could not see the HDMI sticker. phoossno customer service was very quick to point out that the HDMI sticker is below a barcode sticker Amazon had pasted on top of the HDMI sticker! Good customer service from
phoossno thus far. I will test the cable later and report back.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Just received it late yesterday. Almost returned it immediately because I could not see the HDMI sticker. phoossno customer service was very quick to point out that the HDMI sticker is below a barcode sticker Amazon had pasted on top of the HDMI sticker! Good customer service from
> phoossno thus far. I will test the cable later and report back.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3141457
> View attachment 3141458
> View attachment 3141459


Did you scan the QR label just to be sure? Do let us know how it works. The more viable choices there are the better for the consumer.


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## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Did you scan the QR label just to be sure? Do let us know how it works. The more viable choices there are the better for the consumer.


Yes, scanned the HDMI QR label. Confirmed authentic.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Yes, scanned the HDMI QR label. Confirmed authentic.


Excellent.


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## StephenBishop

StephenBishop said:


> Just received it late yesterday. Almost returned it immediately because I could not see the HDMI sticker. phoossno customer service was very quick to point out that the HDMI sticker is below a barcode sticker Amazon had pasted on top of the HDMI sticker! Good customer service from
> phoossno thus far. I will test the cable later and report back.
> 
> 
> View attachment 3141457
> View attachment 3141458
> View attachment 3141459



Appears this is only the second HDMI certified 15m UHS cable on the market (after the uber expensive Wireworld Stellar). Connected to a HDMI 2.1 8K video processor with a 3080 GPU installed and a HDMI 2.0 4K projector. Tested it with various sources for a couple of hours today.

Works as described on the Amazon website so far without any issues.

The source end connector gets a bit hot to touch (although I think may be slightly less hot than the uncertified Ruipro 15m HDMI 2.1 AOC). phoossno customer service has informed me that this is normal as the power consumption at the 3080 source connector is 5V 140mA at [email protected] and [email protected] and the zinc alloy material they are using for the connector casing efficiently dissipates the heat. They have also informed me that according to their testing the source end cable head temperature is within the 50 degrees Celsius max specified for the connector chipset they use and that the specified working life for this chipset is 100K hours according to the specs for this chipset.

phoossno customer service has been impressive so far - very responsive and knowledgeable.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Appears this is only the second HDMI certified 15m UHS cable on the market (after the uber expensive Wireworld Stellar). Connected to a HDMI 2.1 8K video processor with a 3080 GPU installed and a HDMI 2.0 4K projector. Tested it with various sources for a couple of hours today.
> 
> Works as described on the Amazon website so far without any issues.
> 
> The source end connector gets a bit hot to touch (although I think may be slightly less hot than the uncertified Ruipro 15m HDMI 2.1 AOC). phoossno customer service has informed me that this is normal as the power consumption at the 3080 source connector is 5V 140mA at [email protected] and [email protected] and the zinc alloy material they are using for the connector casing efficiently dissipates the heat. They have also informed me that according to their testing the source end cable head temperature is within the 50 degrees Celsius max specified for the connector chipset they use and that the specified working life for this chipset is 100K hours according to the specs for this chipset.
> 
> phoossno customer service has been impressive so far - very responsive and knowledgeable.


Good information. Cable Matters, Phoossno, Ruipro and some others all purchase their base HDMI 2.1 chipsets from the same European source so it appears that their on-going research into the heat dissipation from the overhot GPUs is starting to pay off. Hopefully that will bring some stability, and prices down so the gamers who need long cable runs and HDMI 2.1. Sounds like their customer service is on par with Ruipro's which is another bonus for the customer.


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## Jordyn11

Thanks Stephen for reporting back. and it's great news that there are more options coming onto the market, especially those with good customer service.


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## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters, Phoossno, Ruipro and some others all purchase their base HDMI 2.1 chipsets from the same European source


Not sure about Cable Matters and Ruipro but from what I have been told, phoossno sources their lasers chipsets from a US company. And neither Cable Matters nor Ruipro have a certified UHS 2.1 cable in the 15 meter category.


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## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Hopefully that will bring some stability, and prices down


The prices have already come down dramatically...For 15 meter lengths, the phoossno certified UHS 2.1 cable is listed at USD 129.99, whereas the uncertified Ruipro 2.1 cable is listed at USD 189.99 and the uber expensive Wireworld Stellar certified UHS 2.1 cable is listed at USD 550.00, all on Amazon.


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## StephenBishop

StephenBishop said:


> from what I have been told, phoossno sources their lasers chipsets from a US company.


To clarify further, I have been told that phoossno sources their lasers from a US company and chipsets from a German company - both supplied from factories in Europe.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Not sure about Cable Matters and Ruipro but from what I have been told, phoossno sources their lasers chipsets from a US company. And neither Cable Matters nor Ruipro have a certified UHS 2.1 cable in the 15 meter category.


That is true about the cable length, so far. Distance shouldn't make a difference when data is being pushed down optical fibers but with HDMI and the demands of HDMI 2.1, it apparently does. The low bandwidth requirements of the cable's "communication" (ARC, HDCP, EDID, etc) are carried on the copper wires in the hybrid fiber cable so I think that's where some of the issues arise from with the long runs. Only time will tell how well these 15m (about 50') cables will perform with the wide variety of consumer devices and setups. If you have an easy and safe way to install/upgrade your cabling (i.e. conduit) then if something fails, replacement is easier.


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## HomieTheClown

Otto Pylot said:


> In theory, 75' should be a piece of cake with a fiber cable, but in reality it's not for various reasons. At least at this point in time.


It's good to see some of you guys. I haven't been following the thread for a couple months now. I didn't want to get pull the trigger on a 8k TV or an AVR (which seems to be another mess I have to figure out) that I have to run with a 40' cable until the cable situation got figured out. Guess I better I catch up with the thread. Thanks to everyone who's already been out there testing out cables and giving us feedback. I hope 40' isn't too hard to do...


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## Dr.Savage

Yeap, looks like the cable solution is upon us, but the AVR issue is a whole other beast :|

I have the 12m Ruipro and it is working as intended, and I am not using the USB power attachment. I have it connected between and Xbox Series X and a LG CX...so far so good.


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## Otto Pylot

Dr.Savage said:


> Yeap, looks like the cable solution is upon us, but the AVR issue is a whole other beast :|
> 
> I have the 12m Ruipro and it is working as intended, and I am not using the USB power attachment. I have it connected between and Xbox Series X and a LG CX...so far so good.


Thanks for the feedback. The voltage inserter is just a "just in case you need it" and is intended mostly for pj users because some of them seemed to have a wider variation in current output that just caused issues for some. Most folks will not have a need for them.

Yes, the avr issue is a whole 'nuther can of worms. Some of the proposed fixes from Denon and Marantz are just plain lame. It will get better though. Patience is the key word.


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## Dr.Savage

I am about to have an install done (next couple months). The HDMI I need is about 12-15m. So the cable I mentioned above is just for testing, prior to install. I am thinking of having the installers run a couple, just as a fail safe. I was thinking of running one Ruipro and one Phoosno, just to have one as backup. I assume more than one cable tied together is more durable on pulling than one??? How durable are these cables? Is the pulling and tugging going to be a big risk? Should I run more than 2? Unfortunately, conduit is not an option. The key is how violent the installers are with install. If I did it myself, I could be more cautious. Of course I will ask them to be as aware as possible on bends/pulls; however, they tried to sell me a $299 Audio Quest 18Gbps cable  So I can get two 48Gbps for that price. So that is what I am going to do for the eventual AVR that hopefully will be released within next year or two...hopefully sooner. Any advice?


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## Otto Pylot

Dr.Savage said:


> I am about to have an install done (next couple months). The HDMI I need is about 12-15m. So the cable I mentioned above is just for testing, prior to install. I am thinking of having the installers run a couple, just as a fail safe. I was thinking of running one Ruipro and one Phoosno, just to have one as backup. I assume more than one cable tied together is more durable on pulling than one??? How durable are these cables? Is the pulling and tugging going to be a big risk? Should I run more than 2? Unfortunately, conduit is not an option. The key is how violent the installers are with install. If I did it myself, I could be more cautious. Of course I will ask them to be as aware as possible on bends/pulls; however, they tried to sell me a $299 Audio Quest 18Gbps cable  So I can get two 48Gbps for that price. So that is what I am going to do for the eventual AVR that hopefully will be released within next year or two...hopefully sooner. Any advice?


Hybrid fiber cables are not quite as fragile as you would think. However, the fiber is usually glass (some are polymer-based) and the connections to the connector boards are very delicate in nature (very small weld/connection points) so pulling on the connector ends or bending the connector back on itself can damage the connection point which may result in issues either immediately or over time as the connection point weakens. The use of a smooth-walled conduit just makes that process so much easier and safer, especially around bends. In your case you can't run conduit so depending on how much space the installers have and what obstacles they encounter will all depend on their experience. Installing two cables is good insurance (if one can afford it ) and it wouldn't be a bad idea to run sold core, UTP, CAT-6 cable (non-CCA/CCS and not ethernet patch cable) as well if possible. You could use the CAT-6 cable to extend your ethernet connection (as I do) by terminating with punch down keystone jacks so you could hard wire your HTS. Or terminate with HDBT for video if that is some thing you want to consider down the road. The CAT-6 cable is fairly stiff so it might make a good "pull sting" that you could attach one or both of the fiber cables to and CAREFULLY pull them together. I would make sure that the cables work as expected prior to installation and make sure the installers understand that the cables do work, so if there are issues after installation, it is probably installation-related and you have some ground to stand on if there is a dispute. Do let us know how this all works out.

Phoossno is getting some good reviews so that would appear to be a good choice to run along with the Ruipro. Cable Matters might also be a good option as well.


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## pbc

Not sure if this is the place to ask. Have been using a 50' AmazonBasics fiber optic cable run to my PJ (ran two for redundancy) and everything was working fine. 

Recently purchased an HDfury Vertex2 and when sending LLDV through it to the PJ, I'm noticing sparkles and occasional video dropouts which folks claim is likely the cable unable to pass that much data. 

The HDfury folks reccoment their own 60' fiber optic cable which I assume is just OEMd from something else. 

But would prefer to purchase something off Amazon.ca that I can test first and send back if it does work. 

Is the RuiPro which I think runs for $250 or more for 50' the only option that is known to work?


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## [email protected]

pbc said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask. Have been using a 50' AmazonBasics fiber optic cable run to my PJ (ran two for redundancy) and everything was working fine.
> 
> Recently purchased an HDfury Vertex2 and when sending LLDV through it to the PJ, I'm noticing sparkles and occasional video dropouts which folks claim is likely the cable unable to pass that much data.
> 
> The HDfury folks reccoment their own 60' fiber optic cable which I assume is just OEMd from something else.
> 
> But would prefer to purchase something off Amazon.ca that I can test first and send back if it does work.
> 
> Is the RuiPro which I think runs for $250 or more for 50' the only option that is known to work?





pbc said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask. Have been using a 50' AmazonBasics fiber optic cable run to my PJ (ran two for redundancy) and everything was working fine.
> 
> Recently purchased an HDfury Vertex2 and when sending LLDV through it to the PJ, I'm noticing sparkles and occasional video dropouts which folks claim is likely the cable unable to pass that much data.
> 
> The HDfury folks reccoment their own 60' fiber optic cable which I assume is just OEMd from something else.
> 
> But would prefer to purchase something off Amazon.ca that I can test first and send back if it does work.
> 
> Is the RuiPro which I think runs for $250 or more for 50' the only option that is known to work?


Few others on here have tried these cables with good results. Check it out.


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## Dr.Savage

Otto Pylot said:


> and it wouldn't be a bad idea to run sold core, UTP, CAT-6 cable (non-CCA/CCS and not ethernet patch cable) as well if possible. You could use the CAT-6 cable to extend your ethernet connection (as I do) by terminating with punch down keystone jacks so you could hard wire your HTS. Or terminate with HDBT for video if that is some thing you want to consider down the road. The CAT-6 cable is fairly stiff so it might make a good "pull sting" that you could attach one or both of the fiber cables to and CAREFULLY pull them together.


Okay, I completely understand the concept of pulling the cat-6 vs the HDMI as a pull string as you reference. However, I am not sure about the HDBT for video, I will have to look into that. I guess I was uncertain if that allowed for HMDI 2.1 benefits (yet), such as VRR, ALLM, 120frames, etc. Funny you mention the Cat-6, I am wiring the whole house (basically, all relevant rooms) as well and going with Cat-6. The company is pretty good for all reviews I have read but depending on the complexity, it may be a tough pull. However, fingers crossed. I do like idea of using another cable as a swap out for investing in any more HDMIs. That way I can stick with two that I can confirm as working pre-install, and to your point, have the ability to argue the install. Granted, if you buy from them they warranty it, so I am sure that would be annoying conversation since I avoided their Audio Quest upcharge; however, the amount I am spending they should work with me (if they mess up the pull). We will see.

@pbc I think your two reasonably priced choices are Ruipro 15m, and the Phoosno 15m options, (you mentioned 50 feet, so maybe the 15m versions would suit?). Both are seemingly good choices from reports on this forum. I currently am using the Ruipro 12m option, and so far so good. However, you have to make sure you get the GEN3/C version. I bought the Ruipro from Amazon (US site), and got the GEN3/C first buy, and I have had it a month at least. I am testing it from Xbox Series X to LG CX 2020 model. All checks, no weird issues, no black screens at least so far. I am pretty much gaming on it nightly too. The Phoosno is cheaper at least when I checked. You can do what I am doing, and buy both for redundancy. I know you did that already, but can't hurt other than the wallet. Or just make sure to test prior to install. Is your install easy, or tough? I am having that issue now, not sure how difficult the pull will be. Good luck.

*I just realized that I am running COD at 4k/60 due to having Dolby Vision turned on. Apparently Xbox won't allow 4k/120 yet due to DV. So, going to switch DV off and test 4k/120 COD and see how that works. Supposedly, Microsoft and LG are working on the 4k/120 with DV as an option, but time will tell if bandwidth or similar is enough to have DV with 120....just another piece in the HMDI2.1 puzzle.....DV now.....


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## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Not sure if this is the place to ask. Have been using a 50' AmazonBasics fiber optic cable run to my PJ (ran two for redundancy) and everything was working fine.
> 
> Recently purchased an HDfury Vertex2 and when sending LLDV through it to the PJ, I'm noticing sparkles and occasional video dropouts which folks claim is likely the cable unable to pass that much data.
> 
> The HDfury folks reccoment their own 60' fiber optic cable which I assume is just OEMd from something else.
> 
> But would prefer to purchase something off Amazon.ca that I can test first and send back if it does work.
> 
> Is the RuiPro which I think runs for $250 or more for 50' the only option that is known to work?


Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno, and Maxonar are the most popular hybrid fiber cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (if HDMI 2.1 is something you need/want). Cable Matters and Phoossno, and I believe Maxonar are certified as UHS HDMI cables. Ruipro will be releasing their certified UHS HDMI cable in about 4 weeks (still in the certification phase). All of them offer cables for the HDMI 2.0 options as well but I don't believe any of them are certified for HDMI 2.0 if certification is something you want.

At 60', there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability. Active cables are funny beasts, even the certified ones so test the cable prior to installation to make whatever you get works as expected. Are you installing in-wall and will you be using a conduit?

Isn't the Vertex2 HDMI 2.0 only? Some pj's have been reported to have an inconsistent current output which may affect signal propagation with some active cables. A voltage inserter may help. They are cheap and if that works, you're good to go. Can you do a direct, source to sink, connection to rule out a problem with the HDFury? Quite often a single connection with no adapters or extenders in-between offers a more reliable connection.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Dr.Savage said:


> Okay, I completely understand the concept of pulling the cat-6 vs the HDMI as a pull string as you reference. However, I am not sure about the HDBT for video, I will have to look into that. I guess I was uncertain if that allowed for HMDI 2.1 benefits (yet), such as VRR, ALLM, 120frames, etc. Funny you mention the Cat-6, I am wiring the whole house (basically, all relevant rooms) as well and going with Cat-6. The company is pretty good for all reviews I have read but depending on the complexity, it may be a tough pull. However, fingers crossed. I do like idea of using another cable as a swap out for investing in any more HDMIs. That way I can stick with two that I can confirm as working pre-install, and to your point, have the ability to argue the install. Granted, if you buy from them they warranty it, so I am sure that would be annoying conversation since I avoided their Audio Quest upcharge; however, the amount I am spending they should work with me (if they mess up the pull). We will see.
> 
> @pbc I think your two reasonably priced choices are Ruipro 15m, and the Phoosno 15m options, (you mentioned 50 feet, so maybe the 15m versions would suit?). Both are seemingly good choices from reports on this forum. I currently am using the Ruipro 12m option, and so far so good. However, you have to make sure you get the GEN3/C version. I bought the Ruipro from Amazon (US site), and got the GEN3/C first buy, and I have had it a month at least. I am testing it from Xbox Series X to LG CX 2020 model. All checks, no weird issues, no black screens at least so far. I am pretty much gaming on it nightly too. The Phoosno is cheaper at least when I checked. You can do what I am doing, and buy both for redundancy. I know you did that already, but can't hurt other than the wallet. Or just make sure to test prior to install. Is your install easy, or tough? I am having that issue now, not sure how difficult the pull will be. Good luck.
> 
> *I just realized that I am running COD at 4k/60 due to having Dolby Vision turned on. Apparently Xbox won't allow 4k/120 yet due to DV. So, going to switch DV off and test 4k/120 COD and see how that works. Supposedly, Microsoft and LG are working on the 4k/120 with DV as an option, but time will tell if bandwidth or similar is enough to have DV with 120....just another piece in the HMDI2.1 puzzle.....DV now.....


I don't believe you initially mentioned HDMI 2.1 so the solid core CAT-6 probably wouldn't work because I'm not sure if the HDBT rx/tx are HDMI 2.1 capable. You can still use solid core to extend an HDMI connection if that is something you might want now or in the future. If not, just use some as a pull string. Solid pure copper core, UTP, non-CCA/CCS is what you want. Not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable. I purchased mine from Sewell and terminated myself with punch down keystones.

The point I was trying to make with the cable installation is that most cable mfrs will refund your money or replace the cable but it's having the install team come back and reinstall cable at no charge if they screwed it up in the first place.

35'-50' for the HDMI 2.1 options can be challenging so throughly test the cable(s) as best as you can. If you don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices that offer the same option sets you're going just have to take it on faith that whatever cable you get will work as expected once you connect HDMI 2.1 certified devices. If certified they should work, but sometimes device mfrs choose to implement those options differently so compatibility issues MAY present themselves.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno, and Maxonar are the most popular hybrid fiber cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (if HDMI 2.1 is something you need/want). Cable Matters and Phoossno, and I believe Maxonar are certified as UHS HDMI cables. Ruipro will be releasing their certified UHS HDMI cable in about 4 weeks (still in the certification phase). All of them offer cables for the HDMI 2.0 options as well but I don't believe any of them are certified for HDMI 2.0 if certification is something you want.
> 
> At 60', there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability. Active cables are funny beasts, even the certified ones so test the cable prior to installation to make whatever you get works as expected. Are you installing in-wall and will you be using a conduit?
> 
> Isn't the Vertex2 HDMI 2.0 only? Some pj's have been reported to have an inconsistent current output which may affect signal propagation with some active cables. A voltage inserter may help. They are cheap and if that works, you're good to go. Can you do a direct, source to sink, connection to rule out a problem with the HDFury? Quite often a single connection with no adapters or extenders in-between offers a more reliable connection.


Thanks, will give the voltage inverter a go first. 

Ran an empty vacuum tube to the PJ (and a nylon cable) when I did the basement "just in case". It has three 90 degree elbows though, so pulling 50 feet or so of HDMI could be iffy without causing damage I assume.

2.1 isn't needed, but I figured if I was pulling a new cable, as future proof as possible would be nice!


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Thanks, will give the voltage inverter a go first.
> 
> Ran an empty vacuum tube to the PJ (and a nylon cable) when I did the basement "just in case". It has three 90 degree elbows though, so pulling 50 feet or so of HDMI could be iffy without causing damage I assume.
> 
> 2.1 isn't needed, but I figured if I was pulling a new cable, as future proof as possible would be nice!


You can still do the 90º bends successfully if you go slow and give yourself extra cable to make the bend as gentle as possible. Hybrid fiber cables have an excellent bend radius (flexibility), so as long as the bend is not sharp, you should be ok. If you don't have a pull sting installed already you can use and existing cable (if one is in place) as a pulll string or you can use a long piece of solid core CAT-6 cable, which is a bit stiff but bendable, and attach your cable to that. Just make sure that the cable is attached to the body of the "pull string" and not the connector ends and secure the connector ends from bending back on itself. In fact, you could leave the solid core, UTP, CAT-6 cable in place and use that to extend an ethernet connection if need be. If you do decide to keep the solid core in place for future use, make sure it is a solid, pure copper core, UTP, and not CCA/CCS cable or ethernet patch cable.


----------



## pbc

Thanks, have a nylon pull cable in place. Will see what cat6 cable I have, know I had some outdoor stuff just can't recall what it was exactly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Thanks, have a nylon pull cable in place. Will see what cat6 cable I have, know I had some outdoor stuff just can't recall what it was exactly.


Technically, almost any CAT-6 cable will work, unless you want to run HDBT, but I've just always used solid copper core and not the CCA (Copper Coated Aluminum) or CCS (Copper Coated Steel) that is usually used in CAT-6 ethernet patch cables. Solid core is usually sold in spools so you will have to terminate them but that's easy to do.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically, almost any CAT-6 cable will work, unless you want to run HDBT, but I've just always used solid copper core and not the CCA (Copper Coated Aluminum) or CCS (Copper Coated Steel) that is usually used in CAT-6 ethernet patch cables. Solid core is usually sold in spools so you will have to terminate them but that's easy to do.


Actually, the original cable I ran was an ultra thin Cat-6 cable...so the first time I decided to purchase something without research is the one time I'm running cabling through walls and picked the wrong one (as I later found out when I tried to use it for POE for an access point device...).


----------



## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> Hi otto pylot, I have a few questions for you. When you say, pull the HDMI cable from the body and not the connector end are you referring to the body as the cable itself right behind the male connector assembly? Looks like i may be replacing my 25 to 30ft inwall rated 10yr old BlueRigger HDMI cable. It worked with my Yamaha RX-V671 1080P AVR hooked to my sony A8H 4k TV but when I installed my new Denon x3700h AVR I didn't get no picture to the TV so I'm thinking the HDMI cable is not compatible with the new AVR for the distance of 25 to 30ft. I hooked up a portable TV to the new avr with a 4ft HDMI cable and it worked fine. What HDMI cable would you recommend for my setup. I have inwall 1.5" flex hose similar to a vac hose that is not smooth on the inside and when I used a fish tape to pull my BlueRigger HDMI through it wasn't easy with the inside roughness of the hose. If I replace the old hdmi with the new one I was going to use the old inwall rated BlueRigger cable to pull the new one through by over lapping the two ends by 4inches and using electric tape to connect the two cables together, making sure the ends are tape good so maybe they won't hang up to bad. I know by doing this will take up more space inside the 1.5" hose. I would like to butt the two cable ends together to make a easier pull but not sure how to go about that because they may pull apart. How fragile is the new ultra high speed cables with pulling against and what ones would you recommend. I appreciate your time and information.


Problem Solved: I was 99% sure the problem was the old BlueRigger HDMI cable, I went ahead and ordered a new Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI 32.8' Cable and hooked it up to My A8H Sony TV and new Denon x3700h and it worked perfectly. I was able to go through the AVR x3700h setup for the first time. I haven't had a problem with the new cable yet, its only been a couple days in use. We will see how it goes, thanks for everyones help.


----------



## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> Problem Solved: I was 99% sure the problem was the old BlueRigger HDMI cable, I went ahead and ordered a new Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI 32.8' Cable and hooked it up to My A8H Sony TV and new Denon x3700h and it worked perfectly. I was able to go through the AVR x3700h setup for the first time. I haven't had a problem with the new cable yet, its only been a couple days in use. We will see how it goes, thanks for everyones help.


Cable Matters do make good cables so I'm glad you found one that works for you. Congrats.


----------



## grimm79

This thread is incredibly long. Did Arrow AV ever finish the testing on long HDMI 2.1 cables, or what? Building a home theater and have a 55ft run from my AV Receiver to the projector that I need to complete.


----------



## Otto Pylot

grimm79 said:


> This thread is incredibly long. Did Arrow AV ever finish the testing on long HDMI 2.1 cables, or what? Building a home theater and have a 55ft run from my AV Receiver to the projector that I need to complete.


No. It was not their primary focus, and keeping up with the new crop of cables coming out, HDMI 2.1 devices (tv's, GPU's, etc) just became too much with cost and time.

At 55' or so, the best thing you can do is run 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit (smooth interior) and try Ruipro, Cable Matters, Maxonar, or another mfr who I forget at the moment. Cable Matters and Maxonar have received certification from HDMI LA as UHS HDMI cables and Ruipro's will be receiving the same in about 4 weeks once the certification process is completed. However, none of the cables are certified for the length that you need. Hopefully that will change soon but only time will tell. If you install the conduit then you have an easy and safe way to install cables when ready and to swap out if one doesn't meet your needs, even after testing it thoroughly on the floor prior to installation. Install a pull string as well. You might also want to consider running solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 cabling as well (non-CCA/CCS and not ethernet patch cable) in case you want to hardwire your system or think you may need an ethernet connection in the area of your pj. 

Unfortunately, as we have said before, there just isn't a 100% guarantee that any given cable will work reliably at those long lengths. They should, but length, connected devices, cable installation, etc all can affect signal reliability and propagation. If you're a gamer, that's another layer of complexity that MAY result in issues.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno, and Maxonar are the most popular hybrid fiber cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (if HDMI 2.1 is something you need/want). Cable Matters and Phoossno, and I believe Maxonar are certified as UHS HDMI cables. Ruipro will be releasing their certified UHS HDMI cable in about 4 weeks (still in the certification phase). All of them offer cables for the HDMI 2.0 options as well but I don't believe any of them are certified for HDMI 2.0 if certification is something you want.
> 
> At 60', there are no 100% guarantees for compatibility and/or reliability. Active cables are funny beasts, even the certified ones so test the cable prior to installation to make whatever you get works as expected. Are you installing in-wall and will you be using a conduit?
> 
> Isn't the Vertex2 HDMI 2.0 only? Some pj's have been reported to have an inconsistent current output which may affect signal propagation with some active cables. A voltage inserter may help. They are cheap and if that works, you're good to go. Can you do a direct, source to sink, connection to rule out a problem with the HDFury? Quite often a single connection with no adapters or extenders in-between offers a more reliable connection.


So I tried a cables to go voltage inserter, and for some reason when it was used the PJ did not detect a source at all. Tried to use it both at the Vertex end and the PJ end, same result. 

HD Fury responded with:



> It does not matter much where you plug it as long as it can provide both ends with enough power, it only matter in case it cannot, which means that the cable is sucking way too much power than it should since in the first place it is not allowed to suck power from HDMI by HDMI standards. Not blaming the cable thus, we also sell fiber taking power from HDMI, yet they are very low consumption that any of our 5V or 12V can power them perfectly.



But I honestly am not sure what they mean. The Amazon Basics 50' cable works perfectly fine when the Vertex is not in the mix. I tried the vertex on another TV, and it worked fine.

So it has something to do with when I insert the Vertex2 into the mix with the PJ and the 60' Fiber cable that results in video drop outs every ~5-10 minutes, and "static" that is visible in the dark with dark or black scenes.

I'm hesitant to order the HDFury fiber optic, simply because it can't be returned, and amazon.ca doesn't seem to carry a 50' Cable matters or Phoossno fiber cable.

Hmmm..


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> So I tried a cables to go voltage inserter, and for some reason when it was used the PJ did not detect a source at all. Tried to use it both at the Vertex end and the PJ end, same result.
> 
> HD Fury responded with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I honestly am not sure what they mean. The Amazon Basics 50' cable works perfectly fine when the Vertex is not in the mix. I tried the vertex on another TV, and it worked fine.
> 
> So it has something to do with when I insert the Vertex2 into the mix with the PJ and the 60' Fiber cable that results in video drop outs every ~5-10 minutes, and "static" that is visible in the dark with dark or black scenes.
> 
> I'm hesitant to order the HDFury fiber optic, simply because it can't be returned, and amazon.ca doesn't seem to carry a 50' Cable matters or Phoossno fiber cable.
> 
> Hmmm..


Hmmm fer sure. If the cable is an active cable, it definitely depends on which end is connected to where. The cable should be labeled. On one end it should indicate Source and the other end should be labeled as Sink or TV. The voltage inserter is designed for active cables and sometimes works. Passive cables can be connected in any direction as they do not require a power source per se.

HDMI ports are designed to supply 5v/50mA output so active cables, be they active copper or active hybrid fiber have chipsets that are designed to work within the 5v/50mA spec. Sometimes, the 50mA current fluctuates enough that the cable chipsets have issues with the current, especially a longer lengths. Hence the use of voltage inserter which supplies 5v/500mA, in most cases. As mentioned, they are just an option and may help in some cases for pj's and active cables.

If you system works with the current cable without the Vertex, and doesn't work with the same setup and the Vertex in the mix, I'd suspect the Vertex is just providing enough power or there is some other issue. Have you tried changing settings to see what does work? I don't use/need a Vertex so I have no first-hand knowledge of the options available.

Would it be possible to move your system closer together? Can you summarize what you have connected and with what and how your cable run is installed. I think we touched on this but I forget. Do you really need the Vertex?


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm fer sure. If the cable is an active cable, it definitely depends on which end is connected to where. The cable should be labeled. On one end it should indicate Source and the other end should be labeled as Sink or TV. The voltage inserter is designed for active cables and sometimes works. Passive cables can be connected in any direction as they do not require a power source per se.
> 
> HDMI ports are designed to supply 5v/50mA output so active cables, be they active copper or active hybrid fiber have chipsets that are designed to work within the 5v/50mA spec. Sometimes, the 50mA current fluctuates enough that the cable chipsets have issues with the current, especially a longer lengths. Hence the use of voltage inserter which supplies 5v/500mA, in most cases. As mentioned, they are just an option and may help in some cases for pj's and active cables.
> 
> If you system works with the current cable without the Vertex, and doesn't work with the same setup and the Vertex in the mix, I'd suspect the Vertex is just providing enough power or there is some other issue. Have you tried changing settings to see what does work? I don't use/need a Vertex so I have no first-hand knowledge of the options available.
> 
> Would it be possible to move your system closer together? Can you summarize what you have connected and with what and how your cable run is installed. I think we touched on this but I forget. Do you really need the Vertex?


It's a mounted projector, with a 50' run of AmazonBasics Fiber Optic cable. Source/TV ends are in the right places.

When I had the HDMI cable hooked up directly to my Anthem AVM60 processor, everything worked fine (Xfinity cable box, Sony Ubp-x700 player).

When I put the Vertex into the mix (basically you put a short HDMI cable from the output of the Anthem processor into an input of the Vertex2, and then from the output of the vertex2 I connect the AmazonBasics cable to the PJ).

Issues: Randomly, every 3 to 5 to 7 minutes, the screen blacks out for a second or two, then comes back. Also, in dark scenes or just a black screen, I see very faint white sparkles/static on the screen.

Not sure if that helps?

Looks like I can get a 50' Ruipro or Phoossno cable, but they run ~$250 - $300  on amazon canada, and I'm not 100% sure if they can be returned as they involve import fees. They're prime, so I assume they can be. But holy crap...$250-300!

I should also note, i moved the Vertex2 to another TV and hooked it up, didn't get any blackouts. So I'm thinking it is how the 50' cable interacts with the Vertex, and was hoping it was a not enough voltage issue.

Last edit: When I mentioned I wasn't sure where to connect, I meant I tried connecting the Voltage inserter at both the source and TV ends, both ways didn't matter, I was completely unable to pass a signal through period. Not sure why that would be?


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> It's a mounted projector, with a 50' run of AmazonBasics Fiber Optic cable. Source/TV ends are in the right places.
> 
> When I had the HDMI cable hooked up directly to my Anthem AVM60 processor, everything worked fine (Xfinity cable box, Sony Ubp-x700 player).
> 
> When I put the Vertex into the mix (basically you put a short HDMI cable from the output of the Anthem processor into an input of the Vertex2, and then from the output of the vertex2 I connect the AmazonBasics cable to the PJ).
> 
> Issues: Randomly, every 3 to 5 to 7 minutes, the screen blacks out for a second or two, then comes back. Also, in dark scenes or just a black screen, I see very faint white sparkles/static on the screen.
> 
> Not sure if that helps?
> 
> Looks like I can get a 50' Ruipro or Phoossno cable, but they run ~$250 - $300  on amazon canada, and I'm not 100% sure if they can be returned as they involve import fees. They're prime, so I assume they can be. But holy crap...$250-300!
> 
> I should also note, i moved the Vertex2 to another TV and hooked it up, didn't get any blackouts. So I'm thinking it is how the 50' cable interacts with the Vertex, and was hoping it was a not enough voltage issue.
> 
> Last edit: When I mentioned I wasn't sure where to connect, I meant I tried connecting the Voltage inserter at both the source and TV ends, both ways didn't matter, I was completely unable to pass a signal through period. Not sure why that would be?


When I was testing the voltage inserters from Ruipro it didn't make any difference which end I was connecting to. Both worked ok but one, my runs aren't anywhere near as long as yours, two, I wasn't using a pj as my display device, and three, I didn't have any issue to begin with. So, my testing really has no true bearing on your issue.

Isn't the Amazon Basics cable just an active copper-only cable? It could be that a hybrid fiber cable is what you are going to need. FYI, hybrid fiber cables have glass (sometimes polymer) fiber cores for the high bandwidth options and copper wires for the low bandwidth options (like ARC, HDCP, EDID). It's also best to have a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Active cables can have issues, especially over longer lengths, if you have a 'break' in the HDMI chain. Is the Amazon Basics cable installed in-wall with a conduit?


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> When I was testing the voltage inserters from Ruipro it didn't make any difference which end I was connecting to. Both worked ok but one, my runs aren't anywhere near as long as yours, two, I wasn't using a pj as my display device, and three, I didn't have any issue to begin with. So, my testing really has no true bearing on your issue.
> 
> Isn't the Amazon Basics cable just an active copper-only cable? It could be that a hybrid fiber cable is what you are going to need. FYI, hybrid fiber cables have glass (sometimes polymer) fiber cores for the high bandwidth options and copper wires for the low bandwidth options (like ARC, HDCP, EDID). It's also best to have a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. Active cables can have issues, especially over longer lengths, if you have a 'break' in the HDMI chain. Is the Amazon Basics cable installed in-wall with a conduit?


This is the cable, it is installed in-wall. Not via a conduit, so I can't pull it out. But I do have a PVC pipe run to the location with a draw string so I can add new lines down the road, I was just hoping down the road wasn't "a few months after buying the cable".









Amazon Basics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable (18 Gpbs - 4k/60Hz) - 50-Foot : Amazon.ca: Electronics


Amazon Basics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable (18 Gpbs - 4k/60Hz) - 50-Foot : Amazon.ca: Electronics



www.amazon.ca


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> This is the cable, it is installed in-wall. Not via a conduit, so I can't pull it out. But I do have a PVC pipe run to the location with a draw string so I can add new lines down the road, I was just hoping down the road wasn't "a few months after buying the cable".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon Basics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable (18 Gpbs - 4k/60Hz) - 50-Foot : Amazon.ca: Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon Basics High-Speed HDMI Fiber Optic Cable (18 Gpbs - 4k/60Hz) - 50-Foot : Amazon.ca: Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.ca


The cable specs say it is certified for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but yet it appears that the cable doesn't come with the QR label of authenticity, so it is suspicious. One reviewer says the cable doesn't need power because it is passive, but the connector ends certainly indicate directionality.

Amazon, like other online retailers don't check the accuracy or validity of the mfrs claims for some of the products they sell. So it really is caveat emptor if it is not a major mfr. And Amazon reviews are to be taken with a big grain of salt.

If you are using a pvc pipe as a conduit that's fine as long as you can keep the bend radius to a minimum. AOC cables have very good bend radius' so you just want to avoid really sharp, 90º bends.

You may have to purchase directly from the mfr (Ruipro, Cable Matters, etc) so you can take advantage of their return policy if it doesn't work. Hybrid fiber cables are expensive, there's no question about that but unless Vertex has a cable that they recommend that will work with their device you may have to bit the bullet and get a more expensive cable (even tho cable price does not guarantee compatibility) or not use the vertex or upgrade to a more robust model of Vertex.


----------



## pbc

One thing I noticed is that the Amazon cable gets quite hot at the source end. Will look into buying directly from the manufacturer, didn't even realize we could.


----------



## pbc

Strangely, I don't even see this cable on Ruipro's site, not for Canada anyway. Is this the one you are using @Otto Pylot ?









RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D Slim Flexible Suitable for LG Samsung TCL Sony RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 PS4 Roku (15m) : Amazon.ca: Electronics


RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D Slim Flexible Suitable for LG Samsung TCL Sony RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 PS4 Roku (15m) : Amazon.ca: Electronics



www.amazon.ca


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> The cable specs say it is certified for the HDMI 2.0 option sets but yet it appears that the cable doesn't come with the QR label of authenticity, so it is suspicious. One reviewer says the cable doesn't need power because it is passive, but the connector ends certainly indicate directionality.
> 
> Amazon, like other online retailers don't check the accuracy or validity of the mfrs claims for some of the products they sell. So it really is caveat emptor if it is not a major mfr. And Amazon reviews are to be taken with a big grain of salt.
> 
> If you are using a pvc pipe as a conduit that's fine as long as you can keep the bend radius to a minimum. AOC cables have very good bend radius' so you just want to avoid really sharp, 90º bends.
> 
> You may have to purchase directly from the mfr (Ruipro, Cable Matters, etc) so you can take advantage of their return policy if it doesn't work. Hybrid fiber cables are expensive, there's no question about that but unless Vertex has a cable that they recommend that will work with their device you may have to bit the bullet and get a more expensive cable (even tho cable price does not guarantee compatibility) or not use the vertex or upgrade to a more robust model of Vertex.


HDfury recco this cable.. 









HDMI Fiber 30ft or 60ft | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI


This set of always working HDMI fiber cables includes: 1x HDMI2.0b Fiber cable Tested and Confirmed for 600MHz/18Gbps 30ft/10m or 60ft/20m in length CL3 rating for in wall installation No packaging / Bulk condition




www.hdfury.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Fiber cables getting hot at the source end seems to be an issue for some folks. Whether the heat is coming from the source and is poorly dissipated or the cable chipsets are not designed for optimal heat transfer is the question. This seems to be more of an issue with the newer HDMI 2.1 GPUs but nothing has been definitively determined. Sounds to me like that Amazon cable is just a cheaply made cable.

The Ruipro cable you link to is one of the 8k cables they sell. However, once the HDMI 2.1 GPUs were available, Ruipro started to make modifications to their design and components for compatibility reasons. Hence, there is the 8k cable, the 8k Gen3, then Gen 3/B and finally Gen 3/C. Unfortunately the product code is the same for all the iterations and the only way to know which one you get is a little green tag on the box and the cable which indicates which Gen it is. My guess is that whatever Amazon has in stock, is the original iteration. If you don't have any plans for pushing any of the HDMI 2.1 options later on, the cable may work. Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified (with QR label) 8k cable in a few weeks (with a different product code) if that's important to you but I think it may be limited to 10m or 12m with the first release. The cable is still going thru the certification process. Cable Matters is another option if certified 8k cable is what you want but I don't think they offer one at your length.

What ever cable you purchase, test it thoroughly to make sure it meets your needs and expectations prior to final installation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> HDfury recco this cable..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HDMI Fiber 30ft or 60ft | HDFury.com | Connect and Fix everything in HDMI
> 
> 
> This set of always working HDMI fiber cables includes: 1x HDMI2.0b Fiber cable Tested and Confirmed for 600MHz/18Gbps 30ft/10m or 60ft/20m in length CL3 rating for in wall installation No packaging / Bulk condition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hdfury.com


Of course they recommend that cable, it's their product  . Try it out. If it doesn't work with their Vertex, then you have something to work with as far as warranty/support. It is CL3 fire rated so the cable will be stiffer than ordinary FO cables due to the jacket requirements so bend radius will now be something to seriously consider.

There is no mention of eARC or any detailed specs so ARC may be all that is possible.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Of course they recommend that cable, it's their product  . Try it out. If it doesn't work with their Vertex, then you have something to work with as far as warranty/support. It is CL3 fire rated so the cable will be stiffer than ordinary FO cables due to the jacket requirements so bend radius will now be something to seriously consider.
> 
> There is no mention of eARC or any detailed specs so ARC may be all that is possible.


Problem is of course it would cost me $100 in shipping both ways

Maybe I will just bite the bullet and try that Phoosno from Amazon given it is certified. Not sure what else to do to get a cable with at least eARC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Problem is of course it would cost me $100 in shipping both ways
> 
> Maybe I will just bite the bullet and try that Phoosno from Amazon given it is certified. Not sure what else to do to get a cable with at least eARC.


I forgot about Phoossno. Sorry about that. Certification is certainly not a guarantee but at least you know the cable has been tested by a standardized testing/certification program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The reports I've seen about Phoossno have been favorable.


----------



## Smartavlink

Otto Pylot said:


> I forgot about Phoossno. Sorry about that. Certification is certainly not a guarantee but at least you know the cable has been tested by a standardized testing/certification program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The reports I've seen about Phoossno have been favorable.


Absolutly, Certification is only means it is better than mostly of others on the marketing, but HDMI Active Optical Cable has chip build in, so compatibility risk still inside. Especially different lot of the TV/Monitor or of Source TMDS/FRL is different, hope this is helpful to all people whom use HDMI Active Optical Cable.


----------



## StephenBishop

Smartavlink said:


> Absolutly, Certification is only means it is better than mostly of others on the marketing, but HDMI Active Optical Cable has chip build in, so compatibility risk still inside. Especially different lot of the TV/Monitor or of Source TMDS/FRL is different, hope this is helpful to all people whom use HDMI Active Optical Cable.


Welcome to the forum.

If I am not mistaken, Smartavlink is the OEM for phoossno and phoossno may in fact be related/connected to Smartavlink. I understand that Smartavlink is a large optoelectronic cable OEM. Your contributions to this forum on HDMI cable technology are most appreciated!


----------



## Smartavlink

StephenBishop said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, Smartavlink is the OEM for phoossno and phoossno may in fact be related/connected to Smartavlink. I understand that Smartavlink is a large optoelectronic cable OEM. Your contributions to this forum on HDMI cable technology are most appreciated!





StephenBishop said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> If I am not mistaken, Smartavlink is the OEM for phoossno and phoossno may in fact be related/connected to Smartavlink. I understand that Smartavlink is a large optoelectronic cable OEM. Your contributions to this forum on HDMI cable technology are most appreciated!


Thank you for your warmly welcom. You are correct.
Smartavlink provide OEM/ODM service to worldwide brand since Year 2013, also have good relationship to a lot of big & famous HDMI AOC brand. Actually, I registered in AVS last year, but do not make any comments here. Since we got feedback from you through phoossno Amazon, so, I think maybe I can share some of our experience on HDMI AOC design & trboules we are facing. phoossno is a new brand on the marketing, we wish this window can help us get more direct feedback from marketing to help us improve the quality.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Smartavlink said:


> Thank you for your warmly welcom. You are correct.
> Smartavlink provide OEM/ODM service to worldwide brand since Year 2013, also have good relationship to a lot of big & famous HDMI AOC brand. Actually, I registered in AVS last year, but do not make any comments here. Since we got feedback from you through phoossno Amazon, so, I think maybe I can share some of our experience on HDMI AOC design & trboules we are facing. phoossno is a new brand on the marketing, we wish this window can help us get more direct feedback from marketing to help us improve the quality.


I too would like to welcome you to the Forums. Having industry folks participate is always good for the members. I have tested cables for Ruipro and Zeskit so working with industry folks benefits us all.


----------



## pioneer732

I apologize if this question is answered somewhere, but there aren’t good search capabilities from a phone…

I bought the 10m certified hdmi 2.1 ultra high speed fiber cable by “Cable Matters”

it claims on Amazon that is capable of CEC and eARC. BUT! It also says it is 1 directional. How can it be 1 direction AND support eARC? I am pulling the trigger on a projector, but don’t want to spend an extra 200 on a “smart” projector if eARC doesn’t work. (actually my avr only supports ARC minus the e).

cable matters has no phone number and the chat is only a bot that can’t answer questions


----------



## Otto Pylot

pioneer732 said:


> I apologize if this question is answered somewhere, but there aren’t good search capabilities from a phone…
> 
> I bought the 10m certified hdmi 2.1 ultra high speed fiber cable by “Cable Matters”
> 
> it claims on Amazon that is capable of CEC and eARC. BUT! It also says it is 1 directional. How can it be 1 direction AND support eARC? I am pulling the trigger on a projector, but don’t want to spend an extra 200 on a “smart” projector if eARC doesn’t work. (actually my avr only supports ARC minus the e).
> 
> cable matters has no phone number and the chat is only a bot that can’t answer questions


Active cables, regardless of whether they are copper only or hybrid fiber, are directional. What that means is that you can ONLY connect the source to the source (receiver, soundbar, etc) and the sink to the sink (tv, display). Active cables require power from the connected device to work.

If you want to use ARC/eARC then both devices need to have ARC or eARC designated HDMI ports, and you can only connect to those ports for ARC/eARC. If one of your devices only supports ARC, then you won't be able to take advantage of eARC. It depends on the HDMI chipsets on the connected devices. The cable just transport data.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> I forgot about Phoossno. Sorry about that. Certification is certainly not a guarantee but at least you know the cable has been tested by a standardized testing/certification program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The reports I've seen about Phoossno have been favorable.


Well just an update. Looks like my issue is the Amazon 50' fibre cable. I swapped it with 2 Zeskit 8k certified cables (14 ft each) and just ran it outside of the walls... The odd behaviour and interference in the picture is gone. 

So I need a 50' that I can run through PVC conduit with 4 90 deg bends. Fun. Thankfully I did run a nylon string through it at least.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Well just an update. Looks like my issue is the Amazon 50' fibre cable. I swapped it with 2 Zeskit 8k certified cables (14 ft each) and just ran it outside of the walls... The odd behaviour and interference in the picture is gone.
> 
> So I need a 50' that I can run through PVC conduit with 4 90 deg bends. Fun. Thankfully I did run a nylon string through it at least.


The Zeskit cables are passive, which is great if your runs are under 5m (16'). I'm using the new slim ones now on one of my systems and they work great (for HDMI 2.0 as I don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices). But they are certified for the HDMI 2.1 options and have been tested with specific display devices as well as source devices for compatibility.

At 50', and if you need the HDMI 2.1 options, then your only current options are a hybrid fiber cable. Cable Matters or Ruipro are the only real options you have now (possibly Maxonar), but at 50' nothing is certified, if that makes a difference. You'll just have to take your chances, test thoroughly before installation, and pay careful attention to the return policies, which I understand may be an issue for you.

At least you have a conduit installed, with a pull string, that should make installation easier.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> The Zeskit cables are passive, which is great if your runs are under 5m (16'). I'm using the new slim ones now on one of my systems and they work great (for HDMI 2.0 as I don't have any HDMI 2.1 devices). But they are certified for the HDMI 2.1 options and have been tested with specific display devices as well as source devices for compatibility.
> 
> At 50', and if you need the HDMI 2.1 options, then your only current options are a hybrid fiber cable. Cable Matters or Ruipro are the only real options you have now (possibly Maxonar), but at 50' nothing is certified, if that makes a difference. You'll just have to take your chances, test thoroughly before installation, and pay careful attention to the return policies, which I understand may be an issue for you.
> 
> At least you have a conduit installed, with a pull string, that should make installation easier.


Only option for certified hdmi 2.1 uhs 15m hybrid seems to be phoossno. Works great for me.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Only option for certified hdmi 2.1 uhs 15m hybrid seems to be phoossno. Works great for me.


You are correct! I keep forgetting about them. Thanks for posting that reminder.


----------



## jointve

hello i'm using a zeskit, are there any better certified hdmi 2.1 cables atm?


----------



## pbc

jointve said:


> hello i'm using a zeskit, are there any better certified hdmi 2.1 cables atm?


If they work..what do you mean by better? What is lacking? 

I tried them and they worked great at 14 foot lengths.


----------



## Otto Pylot

jointve said:


> hello i'm using a zeskit, are there any better certified hdmi 2.1 cables atm?


I use both, Zeskit and Ruipro certified UHS HDMI cables on my systems. Both are passive and limited to the current 5m (16') certifiable limit. What do you mean better? The cables are thick due to the wire gauge so you need to take care installing them so that you don't have any sharp bends or strain on the HDMI ports.


----------



## volvagia

Hi! This is my first post. I have been reading for a while and this community has been very helpful for me, but haven't post until now.

I have been looking for a while for a not-that-expensive long (10m/33ft) HDMI UHS cable to connect my PC (with a 3080 FE) with my living room TV (LG C9). Recently I found a 70 Euro passive, copper cable that claims to have a bandwidth of 48gbps (not certified though). I did not believe it would at first, but I could always return it, so I bought it.

If anyone is interested, the link for the cable is https://www.amazon.com/ConnBull-Braided-Supports-48Gbps-Compatible/dp/B08Y8CLQ7Z [Amazon US, non-affiliate link]. I bought it through Amazon Spain but they seem to be exactly the same.

Now that I have already used the cable, the weird thing is that it seems to work well, with a stable 4K resolution at 120fps and 12bit HDR, both in RGB and YCbCr444, but the diagnostics screen in the TV shows a bandwidth of 18Gbps. I do not understand how this is even possible. AFAIK, for 4K120 without chroma subsampling you need more than 30Gbps, right?.

Is the diagnostics screen lying?. Maybe this was all a bit of luck and any day the image will start to drop frames or something? Am I totally wrong about the bandwidth needed? Should I return the cable and get a proper, certified cable, or get a HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps one that would work exactly the same while being cheaper?

Any thoughs?

In the photos you can see everything in the diagnostics screen and the Nvidia control panel with the setup in the background:


----------



## Otto Pylot

volvagia said:


> Hi! This is my first post. I have been reading for a while and this community has been very helpful for me, but haven't post until now.
> 
> I have been looking for a while for a not-that-expensive long (10m/33ft) HDMI UHS cable to connect my PC (with a 3080 FE) with my living room TV (LG C9). Recently I found a 70 Euro passive, copper cable that claims to have a bandwidth of 48gbps (not certified though). I did not believe it would at first, but I could always return it, so I bought it.
> 
> If anyone is interested, the link for the cable is https://www.amazon.com/ConnBull-Braided-Supports-48Gbps-Compatible/dp/B08Y8CLQ7Z [Amazon US, non-affiliate link]. I bought it through Amazon Spain but they seem to be exactly the same.
> 
> Now that I have already used the cable, the weird thing is that it seems to work well, with a stable 4K resolution at 120fps and 12bit HDR, both in RGB and YCbCr444, but the diagnostics screen in the TV shows a bandwidth of 18Gbps. I do not understand how this is even possible. AFAIK, for 4K120 without chroma subsampling you need more than 30Gbps, right?.
> 
> Is the diagnostics screen lying?. Maybe this was all a bit of luck and any day the image will start to drop frames or something? Am I totally wrong about the bandwidth needed? Should I return the cable and get a proper, certified cable, or get a HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps one that would work exactly the same while being cheaper?
> 
> Any thoughs?
> 
> In the photos you can see everything in the diagnostics screen and the Nvidia control panel with the setup in the background:
> 
> View attachment 3148432
> 
> 
> View attachment 3148433


If you want an ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable your choices are either the passive Zeskit or Ruipro cables. Passive cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets are certifiable up to a max of 5m (16'). If you want an ATC certified UHS HDMI cable longer than that then you'll need to move up to a hybrid fiber cable. With those the favorite ones are either Cable Matters, which so far only offer them in 16' and 33'. Phoossno is another hybrid fiber cable mfr that offers ATC certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cables, and I think they go up to 50'. ATC certified cables all come with a QR label of authenticity that you scan to make sure it is not a counterfeit.

HDMI 2.1 devices currently push data at around 30Gbps which is more than enough for now so I wouldn't expect to see data pushed to your C9 faster than that. If the cable works reliably for what you want/need, then continue to use it. Certification does not guarantee anything other than the cable was tested by a standardized program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA so at least you know that regardless of who you purchase the cable from, if it has a QR label (for either HDMI 2.0 or 2.1) the testing and certification process was the same.


----------



## volvagia

Otto Pylot said:


> If you want an ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable your choices are either the passive Zeskit or Ruipro cables. Passive cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets are certifiable up to a max of 5m (16'). If you want an ATC certified UHS HDMI cable longer than that then you'll need to move up to a hybrid fiber cable. With those the favorite ones are either Cable Matters, which so far only offer them in 16' and 33'. Phoossno is another hybrid fiber cable mfr that offers ATC certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cables, and I think they go up to 50'. ATC certified cables all come with a QR label of authenticity that you scan to make sure it is not a counterfeit.
> 
> HDMI 2.1 devices currently push data at around 30Gbps which is more than enough for now so I wouldn't expect to see data pushed to your C9 faster than that. If the cable works reliably for what you want/need, then continue to use it. Certification does not guarantee anything other than the cable was tested by a standardized program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA so at least you know that regardless of who you purchase the cable from, if it has a QR label (for either HDMI 2.0 or 2.1) the testing and certification process was the same.


Thank you for your answer!  

I am happy with the cable so I am keeping it. It is just that I did expect a different bandwidth value in the diagnostics screen and was curious about that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

volvagia said:


> Thank you for your answer!
> 
> I am happy with the cable so I am keeping it. It is just that I did expect a different bandwidth value in the diagnostics screen and was curious about that.


Yep. If you've got a cable that works and meets your expectations then just continue to use it because the measured speed is really irrelevant. The diagnostic screens on some panels and receivers needs to be taken with a grain of salt. They are good indicators but as to their accuracy/reliability there are some questions.


----------



## wormraper

I picked up one of the Zeskit 8k certified cables from Amazon that everyone keeps recommending for my TSR-700 receiver and holy freaking HELL those things are thick. Like so thick I'm worried about the weight on HDMI ports. I'm used to the monoprice 4K ultra slims and this seemed excessively thick. Are there any other good reliable 2.1 cables out there that don't weight 50 lbs like the zeskit for a 5 foot cable?

are the monoprice braided 8K certified cables any good?


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> I picked up one of the Zeskit 8k certified cables from Amazon that everyone keeps recommending for my TSR-700 receiver and holy freaking HELL those things are thick. Like so thick I'm worried about the weight on HDMI ports. I'm used to the monoprice 4K ultra slims and this seemed excessively thick. Are there any other good reliable 2.1 cables out there that don't weight 50 lbs like the zeskit for a 5 foot cable?
> 
> are the monoprice braided 8K certified cables any good?


All passive, certified UHS HDMI cables will be thick due to the cable construction required to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Zeskit does have the same cable called Zeskit Lite that has a slimmer jacket that is a bit more flexible. I've tested both types of cables on my systems and performance is the same but I do prefer the Lite series just because of the better flexibility. Ruipro also offers a certified, passive UHS HDMI cable but it too is a bit thick. When it comes to passive cables that's just something you'll have to deal with and plan for when it comes to installation. You don't want sharp bends nor increased strain on the HDMI ports.

You could go with a certified, hybrid fiber cable but at 5', that would be an expensive overkill.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> All passive, certified UHS HDMI cables will be thick due to the cable construction required to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Zeskit does have the same cable called Zeskit Lite that has a slimmer jacket that is a bit more flexible. I've tested both types of cables on my systems and performance is the same but I do prefer the Lite series just because of the better flexibility. Ruipro also offers a certified, passive UHS HDMI cable but it too is a bit thick. When it comes to passive cables that's just something you'll have to deal with and plan for when it comes to installation. You don't want sharp bends nor increased strain on the HDMI ports.
> 
> You could go with a certified, hybrid fiber cable but at 5', that would be an expensive overkill.


hmmm, the LITE Zeskit cables have the same functionality as the regulars? I try to be reasonable with my bends and what not, but even at 6 inchs between the receiver and the wall it really didn't want to bend at all ... I guess I'm just paranoid but I always used monoprice ultra slims for regular content simply because I wanted the lightest weight on the port heads as humanly possible. ....the longest I need is a 4 foot cable (5 foot will have to do as they don't make a 4 footer) to get from my TV to receiver and it just felt like the regular zeskits with jacket just had so much weight to them (mesh jacket cables do that in general, but with the thickness of these cables it added some hefty weight to them). if the lite ones work the same and are a little more flexible and less "weighty" I'd grab one or two of those

oh, just out of curiosity. you said you owned some. the "3 feet/1 meter" ones... are they 3 feet? or 1 meter?? (1 meter is 3 feet 3.37 inches) and was just curious if the 3ft/1m cable is actually the full 1 meter or just a "1 meter guesstimate" as those 3.37 inches would be helpful for extra slack in one situation I have


----------



## alebonau

Otto Pylot said:


> All passive, certified UHS HDMI cables will be thick due to the cable construction required to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Zeskit does have the same cable called Zeskit Lite that has a slimmer jacket that is a bit more flexible. I've tested both types of cables on my systems and performance is the same but I do prefer the Lite series just because of the better flexibility. Ruipro also offers a certified, passive UHS HDMI cable but it too is a bit thick. When it comes to passive cables that's just something you'll have to deal with and plan for when it comes to installation. You don't want sharp bends nor increased strain on the HDMI ports.
> 
> You could go with a certified, hybrid fiber cable but at 5', that would be an expensive overkill.


the passive ruipro UHS certified dont seem excessively fat or anything ....certainly not the 3 i have at various lengths...


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> hmmm, the LITE Zeskit cables have the same functionality as the regulars? I try to be reasonable with my bends and what not, but even at 6 inchs between the receiver and the wall it really didn't want to bend at all ... I guess I'm just paranoid but I always used monoprice ultra slims for regular content simply because I wanted the lightest weight on the port heads as humanly possible. ....the longest I need is a 4 foot cable (5 foot will have to do as they don't make a 4 footer) to get from my TV to receiver and it just felt like the regular zeskits with jacket just had so much weight to them (mesh jacket cables do that in general, but with the thickness of these cables it added some hefty weight to them). if the lite ones work the same and are a little more flexible and less "weighty" I'd grab one or two of those
> 
> oh, just out of curiosity. you said you owned some. the "3 feet/1 meter" ones... are they 3 feet? or 1 meter?? (1 meter is 3 feet 3.37 inches) and was just curious if the 3ft/1m cable is actually the full 1 meter or just a "1 meter guesstimate" as those 3.37 inches would be helpful for extra slack in one situation I have


They come in meters so a 1.5m cable is about 4.9'. The Lite box is labeled 1.5m/5'. I have an extra Lite cable so I just took it out of the box and measured it. It is 5' from connector end to connector end. 6" is not a whole lot of working space but I think the Lite would give a bit better flexibility than their first iteration. Both cables are UHS HDMI and both have the QR label of authenticity affixed to the box as well as the cable body labels as Ultra High Speed HDMI (even tho on the Lite cables the printing is very small).


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> the passive ruipro UHS certified dont seem excessively fat or anything ....certainly not the 3 i have at various lengths...


I just felt that the ones that I have on the OLED upstairs (2m) were a bit stiffer than usual. Certainly no where near as flexible as the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables I was testing but that's to be expected. I had to make a couple of gentle loops behind my system to keep the installation neat and clean (my HTS's are on media consoles) but all is well.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> They come in meters so a 1.5m cable is about 4.9'. The Lite box is labeled 1.5m/5'. I have an extra Lite cable so I just took it out of the box and measured it. It is 5' from connector end to connector end. 6" is not a whole lot of working space but I think the Lite would give a bit better flexibility than their first iteration. Both cables are UHS HDMI and both have the QR label of authenticity affixed to the box as well as the cable body labels as Ultra High Speed HDMI (even tho on the Lite cables the printing is very small).


actually it's more like 4.4 inches than 6.... and that's me pulling it towards the front of the stand.... I'm used to usually have a 2.5 inch gap from receiver to wall (the monoprice slims are great for that)... I just usually dangle the cable straight down from the TV and bend it in towards the receiver.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> actually it's more like 4.4 inches than 6.... and that's me pulling it towards the front of the stand.... I'm used to usually have a 2.5 inch gap from receiver to wall (the monoprice slims are great for that)... I just usually dangle the cable straight down from the TV and bend it in towards the receiver.


All I can say then is try the Lites and see if they will fit without strain, or move the tv out a bit if possible. Both of my HTS's are on media consoles so I have a little flexibility in cable installation and space behind my devices. I use the Ruipro cables upstairs on the OLED and the Zeskit Lites on the LCD downstairs (to be replaced in a couple of months with a QLED).


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> All I can say then is try the Lites and see if they will fit without strain, or move the tv out a bit if possible. Both of my HTS's are on media consoles so I have a little flexibility in cable installation and space behind my devices. I use the Ruipro cables upstairs on the OLED and the Zeskit Lites on the LCD downstairs (to be replaced in a couple of months with a QLED).


gotcha. It's not the TV's that I'm worried about. it was the receiver. the TV's ports go to the side of the TV so they have open air... I was more worried about it coming down and having to bend in towards the ass end of the receiver .... I can pull it out a bit more to get 6 inches if need be though. ... I'll give em a try and see if they bend well enough.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> gotcha. It's not the TV's that I'm worried about. it was the receiver. the TV's ports go to the side of the TV so they have open air... I was more worried about it coming down and having to bend in towards the ass end of the receiver .... I can pull it out a bit more to get 6 inches if need be though. ... I'll give em a try and see if they bend well enough.


Hmmm. Yeah if you could give yourself a couple of more inches I think you'd be ok. I just checked my receiver and I have about 5" or 6" of empty space behind my receiver before the cable leaves the opening and then snakes up to the tv. I still have a couple of the other Zeskit cables in place and they seem to be fine as well. And they are less flexible than the Lites.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm. Yeah if you could give yourself a couple of more inches I think you'd be ok. I just checked my receiver and I have about 5" or 6" of empty space behind my receiver before the cable leaves the opening and then snakes up to the tv. I still have a couple of the other Zeskit cables in place and they seem to be fine as well. And they are less flexible than the Lites.


 they're 28 awg and the same size as the monoprice premium "regular" thickness 28 gauge cables, so I could guesstimate their thickness from there. it's not ideal but I can pull my stand away from the wall more and get away with it. I've had this stand forever and it's a minimalist stand. basically 3 inches wider than a receiver, and only 2.5 inches more in depth than a receiver, so if it's up against the wall it has 1.5 inches of space from wall to receiver, and any extra space is me having to pull it from the wall.... it might look goofy, but I could probably pull a few more inches from the wall.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> they're 28 awg and the same size as the monoprice premium "regular" thickness 28 gauge cables, so I could guesstimate their thickness from there. it's not ideal but I can pull my stand away from the wall more and get away with it. I've had this stand forever and it's a minimalist stand. basically 3 inches wider than a receiver, and only 2.5 inches more in depth than a receiver, so if it's up against the wall it has 1.5 inches of space from wall to receiver, and any extra space is me having to pull it from the wall.... it might look goofy, but I could probably pull a few more inches from the wall.


Go for it. You can always send them back if they don't "fit".


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Go for it. You can always send them back if they don't "fit".


yup, amazon makes it easy that way. 1st world problems, but I wish they were able to get away with slim line cables for 2.1... I'm so used to 36awg slim line HDMI cables that 28 gauge feels like I'm putting a heavy lead filled hose behind my receiver lol


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> yup, amazon makes it easy that way. 1st world problems, but I wish they were able to get away with slim line cables for 2.1... I'm so used to 36awg slim line HDMI cables that 28 gauge feels like I'm putting a heavy lead filled hose behind my receiver lol


Hybrid fiber would be the way to go then for bend radius (flexibility) for your situation but as I said, that's an expensive overkill.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Hybrid fiber would be the way to go then for bend radius (flexibility) for your situation but as I said, that's an expensive overkill.


haha, yeah I'm just doing it to get ahead of the curve because the TSR-700 receiver I have has slightly finnicky HDMI ports and I wanted the extra bandwidth cables to keep it happy. I'd rather pull my receiver stand out 2-3 inches than spend $75 for a cable lol


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> haha, yeah I'm just doing it to get ahead of the curve because the TSR-700 receiver I have has slightly finnicky HDMI ports and I wanted the extra bandwidth cables to keep it happy. I'd rather pull my receiver stand out 2-3 inches than spend $75 for a cable lol


Then Zeskit Lite is for you .


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Then Zeskit Lite is for you .


already ordered. if I like them I'll grab a couple more for the input devices (right now I'm using it for the connection between receiver and TV) ....it's not expensive to have extra bandwidth.


----------



## Ratman

Unless a "newer" technology (upgrade ) requires more HDMI bandwidth.
It may happen in less than 10 years. 😁


----------



## wormraper

Ratman said:


> Unless a "newer" technology (upgrade ) requires more HDMI bandwidth.
> It may happen in less than 10 years. 😁


at that point with the thickness of guage needed to get the bandwidth through they'll just be having copper bars with a jumper connection from your receiver to TV. it'll be easier. lol


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> Unless a "newer" technology (upgrade ) requires more HDMI bandwidth.
> It may happen in less than 10 years. 😁


HDMI 3 is already on the drawing boards . It would be nice if the HDMI Consortium could work closer with the device mfrs (including connectivity) because there are still issues with HDMI 2.0 implementation. Gawd I hate HDMI.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Gawd I hate HDMI.


Amen.
It makes a lot money for everyone.......... except us (the consumer).
It's called planned obsolescence. Keep 'em hungry!


----------



## pioneer732

Otto Pylot said:


> Active cables, regardless of whether they are copper only or hybrid fiber, are directional. What that means is that you can ONLY connect the source to the source (receiver, soundbar, etc) and the sink to the sink (tv, display). Active cables require power from the connected device to work.
> 
> If you want to use ARC/eARC then both devices need to have ARC or eARC designated HDMI ports, and you can only connect to those ports for ARC/eARC. If one of your devices only supports ARC, then you won't be able to take advantage of eARC. It depends on the HDMI chipsets on the connected devices. The cable just transport data.


Thanks for your reply. After a lot of digging, I think that the 1 direction statement is only for video so the ends of the cable need to be in the correct direction, but audio return still function going back. My plan is to have an apple 4K and Xbox series x into the avr. Then out to the projector which also has an android tv smart stick in it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pioneer732 said:


> Thanks for your reply. After a lot of digging, I think that the 1 direction statement is only for video so the ends of the cable need to be in the correct direction, but audio return still function going back. My plan is to have an apple 4K and Xbox series x into the avr. Then out to the projector which also has an android tv smart stick in it.


The cable has to be designed to support ARC. Most are, but if ARC is not listed in the specs, then I'd look elsewhere.

Video always goes one way, source to sink, whether it's a passive or active cable. Active cables were originally designed so that the audio/video signal could travel over longer distances without any signal degradation. The power required for the chipsets in the connector end of the cable is drawn from the sink (tv side) HDMI port.

Most devices only have one HDMI port designated for ARC and/or eARC. So whichever cable you use, active (which is directional because of the power requirement) or passive (which can go either way because there is no power requirement) the cable needs to be connected to the designated ARC/eARC HDMI port on both devices, source and sink.

This is what I said in my first post.


----------



## Snek Plowskin

I'm getting sick and tired of eBay sellers selling 2.1 compliant cables, only to find out they're worse than my older lower specced ones.

Do 2.1 cables require more power to have a proper handshake?, the reason I ask is I have a passive HDMI duplicator (it's powered but I can use it without power), this is off the Shield.
1 HDMI to TV, the other to my soundbar so I can have ATMOS, the issue therein lies as soon as I use the newer cable, everything stops working.
I have 4 of these cables that I should just bin, whilst they look robust, they just do not function as needed.

Hence the q, do higher specced cables require more joose in a non powered solution?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Snek Plowskin said:


> I'm getting sick and tired of eBay sellers selling 2.1 compliant cables, only to find out they're worse than my older lower specced ones.
> 
> Do 2.1 cables require more power to have a proper handshake?, the reason I ask is I have a passive HDMI duplicator (it's powered but I can use it without power), this is off the Shield.
> 1 HDMI to TV, the other to my soundbar so I can have ATMOS, the issue therein lies as soon as I use the newer cable, everything stops working.
> I have 4 of these cables that I should just bin, whilst they look robust, they just do not function as needed.
> 
> Hence the q, do higher specced cables require more joose in a non powered solution?


Personally I'd never purchase HDMI cables from eBay or any other third party seller. It's more expensive for sure but I'd rather purchase directly from the mfr so I can deal directly with them if I have any issues or questions. 

HDMI 2.1 compliant cables can be highly questionable. What exactly does compliant mean, how many of the HDMI 2.1 option sets were tested, and how were they tested? Some do work, many do not.

HDMI ports are designed for 5v/50mA, and active HDMI cables can take an output current of up to 500mA. Passive cables do not require any additional power so they can be installed in either direction. Active cables have chipsets that require a constant output current, which is drawn from the sink end so they are directional in that sense.

Hybrid fiber cables, which are the newest iteration of active cables, are a little more demanding in their power consumption, especially if you want to push the HDMI 2.1 options sets. Some of which require 40Gbps (and eventually 48Gbps).

Traditionally, active cables were not intended to be pig-tailed, or used with adapters, extenders, etc because of the power requirements. But that has recently changed in that there are now UHS HDMI certified passive cables that can be pig-tailed to AOC cables without any signal degradation. The technology is getting better.

Are you pushing just HDMI 2.0 or are you attempting to push HDMI 2.1 (a gamer for example)? Atmos is possible with either one even tho I believe that HDMI 2.1 allows for lossless Atmos.

How long is your run and are you using passive or active cables or a combination? HDCP should be backwards compatible if your devices have differing versions but that's not a guarantee. 

Do HDMI 2.1 "compliant" cables require more current than HDMI 2.0 "compliant" cables? If they are passive cables, probably not, depending on length. Active cables, probably, depending on length. The design and cable build also plays a part in how well they will work. There are lots of knock-off cables sold on eBay and elsewhere that sound great but are just garbage.


----------



## Snek Plowskin

Everything in the loop is only HDMI 2.0, ie the tv is not capable of 2.1 which is not bothering me.
The cable lengths are no longer than 1.5 meters and there is only 2, the 1 cable going to the duplicator is only 30cm long? As soon as the 50 cm HDMI 2.1 cable is introduced, I lose signal and that is only 50 cm long.

I don't like the mix and match that I have running, I would prefer I manufacturer and 1 compliance. I will do this soon but things are working now. I do have an issue with ATMOS from ARC, it works, it doesn't, I just don't care anymore, it gets in the way of my viewing experience when I cannot 100% control how devices interact with each other due to cable specs.

Thanks for your thorough answer, whilst I am tech savy, I never knew HDMI 2.1 was an active solution, once again thx.

I think I will get HDMI 2.0 cables next time round.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Snek Plowskin said:


> Everything in the loop is only HDMI 2.0, ie the tv is not capable of 2.1 which is not bothering me.
> The cable lengths are no longer than 1.5 meters and there is only 2, the 1 cable going to the duplicator is only 30cm long? As soon as the 50 cm HDMI 2.1 cable is introduced, I lose signal and that is only 50 cm long.
> 
> I don't like the mix and match that I have running, I would prefer I manufacturer and 1 compliance. I will do this soon but things are working now. I do have an issue with ATMOS from ARC, it works, it doesn't, I just don't care anymore, it gets in the way of my viewing experience when I cannot 100% control how devices interact with each other due to cable specs.
> 
> Thanks for your thorough answer, whilst I am tech savy, I never knew HDMI 2.1 was an active solution, once again thx.
> 
> I think I will get HDMI 2.0 cables next time round.


I hear ya about using cables from the same mfr. It shouldn't make a difference, and in my experience it hasn't, but I still like to keep them all the same. There are 1.5m certified, passive UHS HDMI cables. They a fairly flexible (unlike most other certified passive UHS HDMI cables). Zeskit Lite are the cables. The HDMI 2.1 certified cables will certainly work for any HDMI 2.0 option so it may be a bit of an overkill but at least you're ready should you ever decide to upgrade your equipment. Can you take the duplicator out of the equation and see if you still have issues. I'm not quite sure what the duplicator is but that may be the issue.

Cable Matters and Phoossno offer ATC certified (QR label) hybrid fiber cables. But I don't think they offer them at your length and they would be an expensive overkill. Phoossno may be coming out with a shorter length hybrid fiber cable and Ruipro currently offers one as well, but the shorter lengths are not certified, if certification makes a difference to you.


----------



## Snek Plowskin

The duplicator was 1 in 2 out, a splitter, I could take audio from Shield straight to soundbar for ATMOS, but I would need soundbar on if I wanted only to hear sound through headphones for late night viewing, soundbar does not pass through audio when off. Simple splitter allows 2 audio pathways, 1 for SB, other for TV. All worked.
Now new TV, I could get ATMOS to SB from TV but not always, it would play jittery, or not at all or perfect, hit and miss.
I gave up and now just run SB ARC from TV.
The more we advance with tech, the more headaches we get.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Snek Plowskin said:


> The more we advance with tech, the more headaches we get.


That's why I've kept my life simple. I don't need ARC/eARC or CEC, and I haven't setup Atmos and I don't know if I will.


----------



## squared80

Stop looking for "HDMI 2.1" and start looking at the details and specs of what the cord can actually do.


----------



## Snek Plowskin

ATMOS does sound good, I dabbled in it with the Q950T sound bar, got sick of drop outs and already had a Q70T that would suffice.
The issues with the 950 was not worth it and with the refund, I bought a new TV instead.
The TV trumps the SB by far, and I have an old 7.1 speaker setup, the SB I had was good but became 1 note in the sub
Again TV is much better value.


----------



## Otto Pylot

squared80 said:


> Stop looking for "HDMI 2.1" and start looking at the details and specs of what the cord can actually do.


The cable can't do anything other than what it was tested and designed to transmit. And testing, unless certified, is questionable because of the wide range of testing and how it is accomplished. Certainly look at the specs but take them with a grain of salt because the marketeers will claim anything. Certification is not a guarantee, but at least one knows that it was done with a standardized testing/certification procedure, regardless of the cable mfr.

HDMI 2.1 really means nothing unless you have HDMI 2.1 devices and are a gamer, at least at this point in time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Snek Plowskin said:


> ATMOS does sound good, I dabbled in it with the Q950T sound bar, got sick of drop outs and already had a Q70T that would suffice.
> The issues with the 950 was not worth it and with the refund, I bought a new TV instead.
> The TV trumps the SB by far, and I have an old 7.1 speaker setup, the SB I had was good but became 1 note in the sub
> Again TV is much better value.


No question that Atmos sounds good, and my receiver can certainly handle that. But the WAF for putting in ceiling speakers is something I'm not ready to take on  .


----------



## Snek Plowskin

Just get the angled up firing and place on the mains, I mean it's next best thing without having to wire commit.
I can attest angle firing works, that's if you have a flatish ceiling, or you can wall mount which is how I had my older PLIIz set up.

I am thinking of getting a newer AVR but just don't need it yet, I do miss not using my SVS sub though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Snek Plowskin said:


> Just get the angled up firing and place on the mains, I mean it's next best thing without having to wire commit.
> I can attest angle firing works, that's if you have a flatish ceiling, or you can wall mount which is how I had my older PLIIz set up.
> 
> I am thinking of getting a newer AVR but just don't need it yet, I do miss not using my SVS sub though.


Enjoy what you have now and just plan for the future. Don't stress.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Then Zeskit Lite is for you .


I was way overthinking. the Zeskit lites are so stupid thin and flexible compared to my monoprice 28 awg cables that I was shocked. It fit in a 4 inch gap without any problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wormraper said:


> I was way overthinking. the Zeskit lites are so stupid thin and flexible compared to my monoprice 28 awg cables that I was shocked. It fit in a 4 inch gap without any problem.


Excellent. I've been testing them for a couple of weeks now and so far so good.


----------



## wormraper

Otto Pylot said:


> Excellent. I've been testing them for a couple of weeks now and so far so good.


yeah, I'm going to grab a couple more for my BR-player and PS4...


----------



## NismoZ

What's everyones stance on HDMI 2.1 cables? I know that we should look for specs in a cable, but I did not know if certain ones had trouble with any of the HDMI 2.1 feature set. Things like VRR, 4k 120, and DV all at once going down the cable at the same time.

I always do Monoprice, and see these two. Does anyone know if these pass those features without issue? Any reported problems?





Monoprice 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com


The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected]



www.monoprice.com









Monoprice 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com


The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected] res



www.monoprice.com





I also know of the Zeskit cables on Amazon:








Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics


Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics



www.amazon.com





I always feel better going with Monoprice because you can get fakes on Amazon. Does anyone recommend either of these 3 over the other, specifically for the least amount of compatibility trouble and most HDMI 2.1 supported features at once?


----------



## Otto Pylot

NismoZ said:


> What's everyones stance on HDMI 2.1 cables? I know that we should look for specs in a cable, but I did not know if certain ones had trouble with any of the HDMI 2.1 feature set. Things like VRR, 4k 120, and DV all at once going down the cable at the same time.
> 
> I always do Monoprice, and see these two. Does anyone know if these pass those features without issue? Any reported problems?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> 
> The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected] res
> 
> 
> 
> www.monoprice.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also know of the Zeskit cables on Amazon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics
> 
> 
> Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 6.5ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I always feel better going with Monoprice because you can get fakes on Amazon. Does anyone recommend either of these 3 over the other, specifically for the least amount of compatibility trouble and most HDMI 2.1 supported features at once?


How long is your cable run because that will determine if you go passive or active (hybrid fiber).
Monoprice is a reseller as well but does seem to have a better reputation. I’ve used them in the past with no issues.

As far as HDMI 2.1 goes, under 16’ Ruipro or Zeskit UHS HDMI is what I would recommend. Over 16’ you’ll need to go with hybrid fiber. For UHS HDMI, Cable Matters, Phoosno, and Ruipro once certification testing is completed are recommended.


----------



## nixpix76

volvagia said:


> Hi! This is my first post. I have been reading for a while and this community has been very helpful for me, but haven't post until now.
> 
> I have been looking for a while for a not-that-expensive long (10m/33ft) HDMI UHS cable to connect my PC (with a 3080 FE) with my living room TV (LG C9). Recently I found a 70 Euro passive, copper cable that claims to have a bandwidth of 48gbps (not certified though). I did not believe it would at first, but I could always return it, so I bought it.
> 
> If anyone is interested, the link for the cable is Amazon.com: ConnBull 8K HDMI 2.1 Cable 33ft Nylon Braided Supports [email protected], [email protected], 48Gbps Compatible with PS5 PS4 Xbox etc(25AWG, OD:8.5mm): Industrial & Scientific [Amazon US, non-affiliate link]. I bought it through Amazon Spain but they seem to be exactly the same.
> 
> Now that I have already used the cable, the weird thing is that it seems to work well, with a stable 4K resolution at 120fps and 12bit HDR, both in RGB and YCbCr444, but the diagnostics screen in the TV shows a bandwidth of 18Gbps. I do not understand how this is even possible. AFAIK, for 4K120 without chroma subsampling you need more than 30Gbps, right?.
> 
> Is the diagnostics screen lying?. Maybe this was all a bit of luck and any day the image will start to drop frames or something? Am I totally wrong about the bandwidth needed? Should I return the cable and get a proper, certified cable, or get a HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps one that would work exactly the same while being cheaper?
> 
> Any thoughs?
> 
> In the photos you can see everything in the diagnostics screen and the Nvidia control panel with the setup in the background:
> 
> View attachment 3148432
> 
> 
> View attachment 3148433


I bought this cable after reading of your success. But unfortunately I can't get mine to work. I have an Asus STRIX GAMING OC rtx3070 and an LG oled C9. I've tried both hdmi outputs, which both support hdmi 2.1 but all I am getting is 4k 60hz. 120hz isn't even available for selection.


----------



## Otto Pylot

nixpix76 said:


> I bought this cable after reading of your success. But unfortunately I can't get mine to work. I have an Asus STRIX GAMING OC rtx3070 and an LG oled C9. I've tried both hdmi outputs, which both support hdmi 2.1 but all I am getting is 4k 60hz. 120hz isn't even available for selection.


The CONNBULL cable, some feel, is aptly named. The HDMI 2.1 options, at 33' for a copper-only cable is difficult, regardless of the slick marketing and product description. It should work fine for the HDMI 2.0 options, and some claim success for HDMI 2.1 but those appear to be the exceptions, and not the rule.

If you really need the HDMI 2.1 options (for gaming) then you need to consider a hybrid fiber cable. And at 33', your options are very limited if you want/feel you need an ATC certified HDMI cable. Currently your choice for a certified, UHS HDMI cable (hybrid fiber) would be Cable Matters or possibly Maxonar. There may be others available but those seem to be the most popular with mostly favorable reviews.

As with all cable installations, make sure you have easy access to your cabling so you can safely and easily swap out your cables if need be or the time comes to upgrade, which it will.

As a side note, the current maximum cable length for a passive, certified, UHS HDMI cable is 5m (16'). For that cable to work at twice that length, the wire gauge would have to be thicker which would result in a loss of flexibility (bend radius). And if you have sharp, 90º bends in your cable run, or undue strain on the HDMI ports, that could affect signal propagation.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> The CONNBULL cable, some feel, is aptly named.


LOL! Yeah, Con n' Bull reminds me of many 3 Stooges shorts where the lawyers are named: "*Dewey, Cheatem & Howe*"


----------



## nixpix76

Otto Pylot said:


> The CONNBULL cable, some feel, is aptly named. The HDMI 2.1 options, at 33' for a copper-only cable is difficult, regardless of the slick marketing and product description. It should work fine for the HDMI 2.0 options, and some claim success for HDMI 2.1 but those appear to be the exceptions, and not the rule.
> 
> If you really need the HDMI 2.1 options (for gaming) then you need to consider a hybrid fiber cable. And at 33', your options are very limited if you want/feel you need an ATC certified HDMI cable. Currently your choice for a certified, UHS HDMI cable (hybrid fiber) would be Cable Matters or possibly Maxonar. There may be others available but those seem to be the most popular with mostly favorable reviews.
> 
> As with all cable installations, make sure you have easy access to your cabling so you can safely and easily swap out your cables if need be or the time comes to upgrade, which it will.
> 
> As a side note, the current maximum cable length for a passive, certified, UHS HDMI cable is 5m (16'). For that cable to work at twice that length, the wire gauge would have to be thicker which would result in a loss of flexibility (bend radius). And if you have sharp, 90º bends in your cable run, or undue strain on the HDMI ports, that could affect signal propagation.


Yeah it sounded to good to be true, with a passive cable at that length. For such a low price. But since a few reported success I took a long shot. I will be sending the cable back to Amazon in Sweden and get a refund. 

The options here in Sweden have been very sparse when it comes to working cables, Aoc included. And ordering from the US Amazon is a royal pain in the ass, and adds about $100 cost in shipping fees plus import taxes etc. 

However luckily I found (just now, a Swedish retailer) that carries the Cable Matters certified AOC for 1100kr (about $110). So I will order that. I mainly use my TV for gaming so it will be worth the cost.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Fiber cables getting hot at the source end seems to be an issue for some folks. Whether the heat is coming from the source and is poorly dissipated or the cable chipsets are not designed for optimal heat transfer is the question. This seems to be more of an issue with the newer HDMI 2.1 GPUs but nothing has been definitively determined. Sounds to me like that Amazon cable is just a cheaply made cable.
> 
> The Ruipro cable you link to is one of the 8k cables they sell. However, once the HDMI 2.1 GPUs were available, Ruipro started to make modifications to their design and components for compatibility reasons. Hence, there is the 8k cable, the 8k Gen3, then Gen 3/B and finally Gen 3/C. Unfortunately the product code is the same for all the iterations and the only way to know which one you get is a little green tag on the box and the cable which indicates which Gen it is. My guess is that whatever Amazon has in stock, is the original iteration. If you don't have any plans for pushing any of the HDMI 2.1 options later on, the cable may work. Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified (with QR label) 8k cable in a few weeks (with a different product code) if that's important to you but I think it may be limited to 10m or 12m with the first release. The cable is still going thru the certification process. Cable Matters is another option if certified 8k cable is what you want but I don't think they offer one at your length.
> 
> What ever cable you purchase, test it thoroughly to make sure it meets your needs and expectations prior to final installation.





Otto Pylot said:


> Of course they recommend that cable, it's their product  . Try it out. If it doesn't work with their Vertex, then you have something to work with as far as warranty/support. It is CL3 fire rated so the cable will be stiffer than ordinary FO cables due to the jacket requirements so bend radius will now be something to seriously consider.
> 
> There is no mention of eARC or any detailed specs so ARC may be all that is possible.





Otto Pylot said:


> I forgot about Phoossno. Sorry about that. Certification is certainly not a guarantee but at least you know the cable has been tested by a standardized testing/certification program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The reports I've seen about Phoossno have been favorable.


Well the 15M Phoosno certified 8k cable came in... And unfortunately I get even more interference than I do with the Amazon fiber cable when used in conjunction with the HD Fury Vertex2. 

Part of me is wondering if the Vertex is the issue and not the cable.. Except for the fact that when I used two 14 foot cables the signal is clean.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Well the 15M Phoosno certified 8k cable came in... And unfortunately I get even more interference than I do with the Amazon fiber cable when used in conjunction with the HD Fury Vertex2.
> 
> Part of me is wondering if the Vertex is the issue and not the cable.. Except for the fact that when I used two 14 foot cables the signal is clean.


Pull the Vertex out of the equation and try the connection again. 14' ( or 28' if you are pig-tailing them) is a lot different than 50'.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Pull the Vertex out of the equation and try the connection again. 14' ( or 28' if you are pig-tailing them) is a lot different than 50'.


Yeah sorry, should have clarified, there are no visible issues without the Vertex2 in the mix on either my Amazon or the Phoossno cable with any source, in SDR or HDR. Only when the Vertex2 comes into the mix. Tons of snow on all sources with the Phoossno, much less with the Amazon, though the amazon would fail and drop out after some time.

HD Fury claims it is because it's passing through a higher bandwidth signal. But something seems off. Admittedly the shorter 14' foot cables did not seem to have any snow/interference with the Vertex2 in the signal path.


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Yeah sorry, should have clarified, there are no visible issues without the Vertex2 in the mix on either my Amazon or the Phoossno cable with any source, in SDR or HDR. Only when the Vertex2 comes into the mix. Tons of snow on all sources with the Phoossno, much less with the Amazon, though the amazon would fail and drop out after some time.
> 
> HD Fury claims it is because it's passing through a higher bandwidth signal. But something seems off. Admittedly the shorter 14' foot cables did not seem to have any snow/interference with the Vertex2 in the signal path.


Then it sounds like the Vertex is the issue and you need to find an alternative or upgrade to a new model of Vertex that can handle the higher bandwidth, or shorten the cable run length.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Then it sounds like the Vertex is the issue and you need to find an alternative or upgrade to a new model of Vertex that can handle the higher bandwidth, or shorten the cable run length.


Impossible to shorten the cable run and I'm on the newest version of Vertex2... Will see what they say as they keep claiming its the cable. 

Which again to me doesn't make sense if it properly sends hdr and SDR, except when the Vertex is doing the pass through. Outside of LLDV sources I don't believe the Vertex is altering the source metadata for regular HDR or SDR.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> The CONNBULL cable, some feel, is aptly named.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> And at 33', your options are very limited if you want/feel you need an ATC certified HDMI cable. Currently your choice for a certified, UHS HDMI cable (hybrid fiber) would be Cable Matters or possibly Maxonar. There may be others available but those seem to be the most popular with mostly favorable reviews.


Otto Pylot's memory lapse again...! Phoossno 10m has an ATC certified UHS hdmi 2.1 hybrid cable.

Phoossno also has a 15m ATC certified UHS hdmi 2.1 hybrid cable - I think still the only one in the market other than a USD550 cable from Wireworld. This one works great for me. Connected from a 3080 GPU to a 4K projector.


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Otto Pylot's memory lapse again...! Phoossno 10m has an ATC certified UHS hdmi 2.1 hybrid cable.
> 
> Phoossno also has a 15m ATC certified UHS hdmi 2.1 hybrid cable - I think still the only one in the market other than a USD550 cable from Wireworld. This one works great for me. Connected from a 3080 GPU to a 4K projector.


Yes, I keep forgetting about Phoossno  I really need to make myself a sticky note because I will be testing their new, yet-to-be-released, short length certified hybrid fiber cable for them soon. Thanks for keeping me on track .


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Then it sounds like the Vertex is the issue and you need to find an alternative or upgrade to a new model of Vertex that can handle the higher bandwidth, or shorten the cable run length.


Not sure I follow why, but this is HD Fury's response as to why the cable isn't working:



> Any fiber hdmi cables that do not have its own power source.
> (meaning you do need to power them with a power supply) can have issues as the vertex 2 cannot properly power them.
> The only fiber cables I know work for 600mhz 18 gbps is our fiber cables.


I assume they mean "over long runs" since many folks have the Vertex2 and a 30' AmazonBasics fiber cable working fine.

Does that make sense?


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Not sure I follow why, but this is HD Fury's response as to why the cable isn't working:
> 
> 
> 
> I assume they mean "over long runs" since many folks have the Vertex2 and a 30' AmazonBasics fiber cable working fine.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Hybrid fiber cables, or active cables in general, draw their power from the sink side. The HDMI port typically is 5v/50mA, and the 50mA current is what is used to "power" the chipsets in the active cable. Long cable runs and/or the higher demands of HDMI 2.1 can be sensitive to fluctuations in the current output which can cause connectivity issues. Some have used voltage inserters between the cable and the HDMI port to supply 5v/500mA to the cable. The voltage inserter draws its power from a USB connection, either from the sink device (tv) or with the use of a wall adapter. That works in some cases but not always. I'm not familiar with the Vertex but if it is not a powered device (has its own power or is connected to a power source) that could be the issue, and the shorter cables have enough power from the source end for reliable signal propagation.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Hybrid fiber cables, or active cables in general, draw their power from the sink side. The HDMI port typically is 5v/50mA, and the 50mA current is what is used to "power" the chipsets in the active cable. Long cable runs and/or the higher demands of HDMI 2.1 can be sensitive to fluctuations in the current output which can cause connectivity issues. Some have used voltage inserters between the cable and the HDMI port to supply 5v/500mA to the cable. The voltage inserter draws its power from a USB connection, either from the sink device (tv) or with the use of a wall adapter. That works in some cases but not always. I'm not familiar with the Vertex but if it is not a powered device (has its own power or is connected to a power source) that could be the issue, and the shorter cables have enough power from the source end for reliable signal propagation.


Tried a voltage inserted and just got a black screen. 

The Vertex2 is powered with this wall wart adapter. 

Seems I may have no choice but to try their cables and hope they work.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Hmmm, maybe you can test the wall wart to make sure it's delivering what it's supposed to be delivering. If you try the Vertex cables and they don't work, that's their problem and they will have to correct it. It's too bad that you couldn't do without the Vertex because that seems to be the issue.


----------



## pbc

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, maybe you can test the wall wart to make sure it's delivering what it's supposed to be delivering. If you try the Vertex cables and they don't work, that's their problem and they will have to correct it. It's too bad that you couldn't do without the Vertex because that seems to be the issue.


Always confused using these things...but using these settings read 26 on the multimeter.


----------



## pbc

Hmm... And the negative lead fell off... So maybe I also need a new multimeter. Figures. Lol


----------



## Otto Pylot

pbc said:


> Hmm... And the negative lead fell off... So maybe I also need a new multimeter. Figures. Lol


Ok. If the adapter reads more that the output, with no load, then it should be fine, up to a point. However, the lead falling off is no bueno. I'd try to find another adapter with the same specs and connector end and see if that makes a difference. You can always return it. No harm, no foul.


----------



## nixpix76

I got my certified cable from Cable Matters yesterday. And I am happy to report that it works perfectly. [email protected], G-sync (VRR), 10bit full RGB and HDR all working. 10 meter one, connected from a RTX3070 graphics card to LG oled C9. The hdmi connector in the graphics end of the cable got a bit hot, but that will be hard to avoid since its sitting next to the heat exhaust. I hope that wont become a problem in the future. This is the cable I got:









Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics


Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

nixpix76 said:


> I got my certified cable from Cable Matters yesterday. And I am happy to report that it works perfectly. [email protected], G-sync (VRR), 10bit full RGB and HDR all working. 10 meter one, connected from a RTX3070 graphics card to LG oled C9. The hdmi connector in the graphics end of the cable got a bit hot, but that will be hard to avoid since its sitting next to the heat exhaust. I hope that wont become a problem in the future. This is the cable I got:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Cable Matters do make good cables. The heat at the connector end has been an issue for some folks, and that MAY affect the cable over time. Some were blaming the cable but most seem to agree that the heat generated is coming from a poorly designed heat dissipation from the card. If you have adequate ventilation behind the source you should be ok.


----------



## nixpix76

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters do make good cables. The heat at the connector end has been an issue for some folks, and that MAY affect the cable over time. Some were blaming the cable but most seem to agree that the heat generated is coming from a poorly designed heat dissipation from the card. If you have adequate ventilation behind the source you should be ok.


I am not sure I would call it a bad design of the heat dissipation. The hot air has to go somewhere and the only way it can take is out the backside of the case/gfx, where the connectors are. But yeah I see your point. I have about 30cm of clearance at the back of the case so it can "breathe". Yesterday I had a long gaming session and it got pretty hot, so I put a deskfan behind the case to move the hot air from the gfx exhaust away from the HDMI connector. It did the job. It has a very low WAF factor but I am single so...


----------



## Otto Pylot

nixpix76 said:


> I am not sure I would call it a bad design of the heat dissipation. The hot air has to go somewhere and the only way it can take is out the backside of the case/gfx, where the connectors are. But yeah I see your point. I have about 30cm of clearance at the back of the case so it can "breathe". Yesterday I had a long gaming session and it got pretty hot, so I put a deskfan behind the case to move the hot air from the gfx exhaust away from the HDMI connector. It did the job. It has a very low WAF factor but I am single so...


Bad design was probably not a good choice of words. Better heat dissipation would have been a better choice. Maybe a directional fan blowing heat away from the chipsets? At least it sounds like you have a good workaround and no WAF to deal with  .


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> Bad design was probably not a good choice of words. Better heat dissipation would have been a better choice. Maybe a directional fan blowing heat away from the chipsets? At least it sounds like you have a good workaround and no WAF to deal with  .


Where to though? Given PC form factor constraints, you would be into relying on the PSU or case fans to extract the heat if it doesn't come out of the rear; giving card manufacturers a big headache as neither of those are typically on the "right" side of the graphics card, to start. The way typical graphics cards work these days they are mostly self-contained cooling wise.

A short pigtail extension is probably the best option if the area immediately surrounding the HDMI connector is too warm.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> Where to though? Given PC form factor constraints, you would be into relying on the PSU or case fans to extract the heat if it doesn't come out of the rear; giving card manufacturers a big headache as neither of those are typically on the "right" side of the graphics card, to start. The way typical graphics cards work these days they are mostly self-contained cooling wise.
> 
> A short pigtail extension is probably the best option if the area immediately surrounding the HDMI connector is too warm.


True. I don’t use/need a pc so that’s an area that I haven’t done a lot with as far as configurations go.


----------



## wrathloki

I need a 2.1 cable for about a 25 foot run from my 3070 Ti to LG CX but everything I’ve been looking at has all kinds of reviews saying that it caps out at 4k60. Even the Zeskit certified 23ft cable has all kinds of bad reviews, and those are mainly for the 16ft variation, so not much faith in the 23. Is there anything at all that will work for my situation?


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> I need a 2.1 cable for about a 25 foot run from my 3070 Ti to LG CX but everything I’ve been looking at has all kinds of reviews saying that it caps out at 4k60. Even the Zeskit certified 23ft cable has all kinds of bad reviews, and those are mainly for the 16ft variation, so not much faith in the 23. Is there anything at all that will work for my situation?


16’ (5m) is the maximum ATC certified length for passive cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets). Both Zeskit and Ruipro cables have been reported to work as expected for most folks. If you want cables certified for lengths longer than 16’ for the HDMI 2.1 option sets then you’ll have to go with a certified active hybrid fiber cables from either Phoosno, Maxionar, or Cable Matters. There are probably a couple other name brand cable mfrs as well.
There are no 100% guarantees from anyone so carefully read the return policies and make sure you have easy access to your cabling for safe and easy installation.


----------



## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> 16’ (5m) is the maximum ATC certified length for passive cables (HDMI 2.1 option sets). Both Zeskit and Ruipro cables have been reported to work as expected for most folks. If you want cables certified for lengths longer than 16’ for the HDMI 2.1 option sets then you’ll have to go with a certified active hybrid fiber cables from either Phoosno, Maxionar, or Cable Matters. There are probably a couple other name brand cable mfrs as well.
> There are no 100% guarantees from anyone so carefully read the return policies and make sure you have easy access to your cabling for safe and easy installation.


How can Zeskit say their 23’ cable is certified then? Sounds like the certification process is suspect, especially with so many saying 16ft doesn’t work.

Pretty much every hybrid fiber cable I’ve looked at has bad reviews saying it doesn’t pass the full 48gbps. So how do I know which to go with? Also, once the cable is installed it’s a huge headache to switch out so if it works initially then fails after install that’s a big problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> How can Zeskit say their 23’ cable is certified then? Sounds like the certification process is suspect, especially with so many saying 16ft doesn’t work.
> 
> Pretty much every hybrid fiber cable I’ve looked at has bad reviews saying it doesn’t pass the full 48gbps. So how do I know which to go with? Also, once the cable is installed it’s a huge headache to switch out so if it works initially then fails after install that’s a big problem.


The passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cables work quite well. Unless the Zeskit cable you are referring too is an active hybrid fiber cable that is ATC certified they don’t offer one. Could it be that the cable is a certified PHS HDMI cable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets?

Most certified UHS cables only push about 40Gbps because there really isn’t any source material that requires 48Gbps, yet.
Cable installation can play a key factor in a successful connection. If in-wall, the use of a flexible conduit is highly recommended if at all possible. That really is the only way to future proof your installation. You also need to be careful on how you pull the cable and be mindful of bend radius even with hybrid fiber.
Video standards will always outpace connection standards so you need to have a plan in place for upgrading your cabling when and if the time comes.


----------



## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> The passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cables work quite well. Unless the Zeskit cable you are referring too is an active hybrid fiber cable that is ATC certified they don’t offer one. Could it be that the cable is a certified PHS HDMI cable for the HDMI 2.0 option sets?
> 
> Most certified UHS cables only push about 40Gbps because there really isn’t any source material that requires 48Gbps, yet.
> Cable installation can play a key factor in a successful connection. If in-wall, the use of a flexible conduit is highly recommended if at all possible. That really is the only way to future proof your installation. You also need to be careful on how you pull the cable and be mindful of bend radius even with hybrid fiber.
> Video standards will always outpace connection standards so you need to have a plan in place for upgrading your cabling when and if the time comes.


The zeskit it definitely supposed to be UHS. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09477HPN9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_98XC0XG8PKZ52Y1YYWZM


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> The zeskit it definitely supposed to be UHS. Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 23ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5: Industrial & Scientific


Well then if it has the QR label, and you've scanned it for authenticity, then the cable has in fact been tested by a standardized program designed by HMDI.org and certified by HDMI LA. 5m was the maximum originally but if the cable mfr can push that, and prove it with certification then that's fine. How is the cable installed? Any sharp, 90º bends and is there any strain on the HDMI ports. The passive cables can be a bit stiff so bend radius is important. 

Is this a direct connection, source to sink? 

Did you lay the cable out of the floor prior to installation to make sure it met your needs and expectations.

The cable is 23' but you said you need 25'. Have you checked the settings to make sure that the CX can properly receive what the GPU sends?


----------



## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> Well then if it has the QR label, and you've scanned it for authenticity, then the cable has in fact been tested by a standardized program designed by HMDI.org and certified by HDMI LA. 5m was the maximum originally but if the cable mfr can push that, and prove it with certification then that's fine. How is the cable installed? Any sharp, 90º bends and is there any strain on the HDMI ports. The passive cables can be a bit stiff so bend radius is important.
> 
> Is this a direct connection, source to sink?
> 
> Did you lay the cable out of the floor prior to installation to make sure it met your needs and expectations.
> 
> The cable is 23' but you said you need 25'. Have you checked the settings to make sure that the CX can properly receive what the GPU sends?


I don’t have the cable yet, I’m just trying to figure out what I need. That same cable in the 16’ size has all kinds of reviews saying it’s limited to 4k60 (including people with 3xxx graphics cards and LG CX), so if that’s the case how can 23’ work and how can either of them be certified? Right now I have a 25’ cord but I’m certain I can cut that down to 23’, but not much more, certainly not 16’. It will be a direct connection if I can’t find a 2.1 switch.

Regarding those negative reviews, both the 3xxx graphics cards and the LG CX support 4k120 VRR at 12 bit RGB or 4:4:4 with HDR on.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> I don’t have the cable yet, I’m just trying to figure out what I need. That same cable in the 16’ size has all kinds of reviews saying it’s limited to 4k60 (including people with 3xxx graphics cards and LG CX), so if that’s the case how can 23’ work and how can either of them be certified? Right now I have a 25’ cord but I’m certain I can cut that down to 23’, but not much more, certainly not 16’. It will be a direct connection if I can’t find a 2.1 switch.
> 
> Regarding those negative reviews, both the 3xxx graphics cards and the LG CX support 4k120 VRR at 12 bit RGB or 4:4:4 with HDR on.


If the cable, any cable, comes with a QR label that has been verified, then it was certified for which ever option set, period. However, certification does not guarantee that it will work across the board. From HDMI.org:

*"Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product."*

HDMI 2.1, imo, was introduced a bit too early. And that was done to garner market share and take advantage of all of the hype surrounding the gamers. Denon, Marantz, and I think Yamaha, all had receivers that had faulty HDMI 2.1 chipsets which of course the mfrs initially blamed on the cable mfrs. Then, there were some GPUs that seemed to generate more heat than was normal which affected the performance of some of the HDMI cables because the chipsets in the connector ends had issue dissipating the heat correctly. The problem is that HDMI 2.1 is still a bit of a crapshoot for some, especially the gamers. If you're directly connecting a pc, good luck. A lot of folks have had very good results, quite a few have had disastrous results.

If you absolutely must have a 25' certified UHS HDMI cable then you will probably have to go hybrid fiber and that brings us back to what I mentioned before. Phoossno or Cable Matters or even Maxonar are the active, certified hybrid fiber cables that some are using with good success. Nobody is going to say this cable or that cable is absolutely guaranteed to work with your equipment and setup. All you can do is try. Hence an easy and safe access to your cabling (along the floor if not installed in-wall and if installed in-wall, the use of a conduit with a pull string). The cable is just a data pipe connecting the source and sink. The source and/or sink will determine how successful your connection is in MOST cases.

What ever cable you get, test test test prior to final installation. That's all you can do.


----------



## comptr

Hi, I am looking for at least a 10ft HDMI 2.1 cable that is in-wall rated, so far I can only find the Audioquest Forest 48 cable: AudioQuest Forest 48 (3 meters/10 feet). I usually buy all of my HDMI cables from blue jeans cables, but I can't tell if they are selling an HDMI 2.1 cable yet.


----------



## Ratman

This is less expensive:








Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 10ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics


Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 10ft, 4K120 8K60 144Hz eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X RTX 3080 PS4 PS5 : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## nixpix76

wrathloki said:


> I need a 2.1 cable for about a 25 foot run from my 3070 Ti to LG CX but everything I’ve been looking at has all kinds of reviews saying that it caps out at 4k60. Even the Zeskit certified 23ft cable has all kinds of bad reviews, and those are mainly for the 16ft variation, so not much faith in the 23. Is there anything at all that will work for my situation?


I bought this cable just a few days ago. And it has been working really well. Connected from a RTX30xx card to LG Oled C9. I am getting 4k120Hz/10bit/Full RGB/HDR etc with it.









Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics


Amazon.com: [Designed for Xbox Certified] Cable Matters Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 32.8 ft / 10m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

comptr said:


> Hi, I am looking for at least a 10ft HDMI 2.1 cable that is in-wall rated, so far I can only find the Audioquest Forest 48 cable: AudioQuest Forest 48 (3 meters/10 feet). I usually buy all of my HDMI cables from blue jeans cables, but I can't tell if they are selling an HDMI 2.1 cable yet.


AQ (and M) is not well thought of around here by some. At 10', @Ratman's suggestion is a good one. In-wall rated is for fire only and unless one is expecting a home inspection for wiring, I wouldn't let the CL2/CL3 rating be a deciding factor in your cable purchase. They can be a bit thicker than normal due to the jacket requirements and if you are installing in-wall, one hopes that you will be using a conduit because you want to be able to control bend radius (gentle, 90º bends) to not crimp the wiring and reduce the strain on the HDMI port. Zeskit does offer the same cable (not sure about the CL2/CL3 rating) called Zeskit Lite, and they are very flexible for a passive cables. BJC does make good cables (I've used them in the past).

I've tested and used both types of Zeskit passive UHS HDMI cables, as well as Ruipro's offering, and they all perform very well.


----------



## Manish4u

Hi all,

I'm facing issues in my Home theater.

I have following set up.

Epson 4050 Projector
Denon AVR 3700H
Screen - 120''
HDMI Cable - 8K Optic Fiber HDMI 2.1 Cable 50FT, UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps,[email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR 10, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4 Compatible with PS4,TV Box,Projector.8K TV.Etc
Connected Devices --> Roku Streaming stick - 4K & Fire TV stick 4K.
Projector to AVR length > 15 feet. 
I also have CAT6 wire connection. 


My Audio set up is 5.1.4 set up. 

After everything was installed, it worked very well. Initially i had only used Fire TV Stick only for streaming Amazon / Disney +/ HBO Max content. I didn't faced issues for 2 months.

After 2 months, i was facing issue for HDMI not found. I tried various options and checked with the person who helped to set up the home theater. he suggested me it could be because of HDMI issue.I also tried connecting Roku. While i connected Roku, i had to be satisfied with only 720p resolution only. 
I reached out to Best buy. Best buy technician told me it is because your HDMI length is more than 15', hence it is giving you issues.

He adjusted the display on Firestick from 4K to 1080P and also adjusted Roku to 1080p.It started working for a week.

Again the issue started creeping. Again it gave me the same error that HDMI not found.


If i connect directly my Firestick to Projector, there is no issue in content.

Do i need to try changing the HDMI cable from Projector to AVR? shall i use some other cable? i found below cable. 

8K hdmi 2.1 Cable 50ft, Ablink Fiber Optic hdmi Cable, with 48Gbps Ultra High Speed Cable Support eARC Compatible with PS5 PS4 Xbox Apple TV Switch Roku,in Wall CL3 Rated

My friend also suggested to use Best buy cable (rocketfish).

Could you please suggest how do i resolve the issue?


----------



## wrathloki

Manish4u said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm facing issues in my Home theater.
> 
> I have following set up.
> 
> Epson 4050 Projector
> Denon AVR 3700H
> Screen - 120''
> HDMI Cable - 8K Optic Fiber HDMI 2.1 Cable 50FT, UHD HDR 8K 48Gbps,[email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR 10, eARC, Dolby Vision, HDCP2.2, 4:4:4 Compatible with PS4,TV Box,Projector.8K TV.Etc
> Connected Devices --> Roku Streaming stick - 4K & Fire TV stick 4K.
> Projector to AVR length > 15 feet.
> I also have CAT6 wire connection.
> 
> 
> My Audio set up is 5.1.4 set up.
> 
> After everything was installed, it worked very well. Initially i had only used Fire TV Stick only for streaming Amazon / Disney +/ HBO Max content. I didn't faced issues for 2 months.
> 
> After 2 months, i was facing issue for HDMI not found. I tried various options and checked with the person who helped to set up the home theater. he suggested me it could be because of HDMI issue.I also tried connecting Roku. While i connected Roku, i had to be satisfied with only 720p resolution only.
> I reached out to Best buy. Best buy technician told me it is because your HDMI length is more than 15', hence it is giving you issues.
> 
> He adjusted the display on Firestick from 4K to 1080P and also adjusted Roku to 1080p.It started working for a week.
> 
> Again the issue started creeping. Again it gave me the same error that HDMI not found.
> 
> 
> If i connect directly my Firestick to Projector, there is no issue in content.
> 
> Do i need to try changing the HDMI cable from Projector to AVR? shall i use some other cable? i found below cable.
> 
> 8K hdmi 2.1 Cable 50ft, Ablink Fiber Optic hdmi Cable, with 48Gbps Ultra High Speed Cable Support eARC Compatible with PS5 PS4 Xbox Apple TV Switch Roku,in Wall CL3 Rated
> 
> My friend also suggested to use Best buy cable (rocketfish).
> 
> Could you please suggest how do i resolve the issue?


Why are you using a 50ft cable if you only need 15?


----------



## Manish4u

wrathloki said:


> Why are you using a 50ft cable if you only need 15?


Distance from Projector to AVR should be around ~22'. I was not sure hence i ordered more long cable. I'm thinking of buying another 25' cable. that should reduce the lag.

Regards
Manish


----------



## Manish4u

Manish4u said:


> Distance from Projector to AVR should be around ~22'. I was not sure hence i ordered more long cable. I'm thinking of buying another 25' cable. that should reduce the lag.
> 
> Regards
> Manish


Does phoossno brand is good? it has 10 m i.e. 33'.


----------



## StephenBishop

Manish4u said:


> Does phoossno brand is good? it has 10 m i.e. 33'.


I am using the phoossno certified 8K HDMI 2.1 15m UHS version- it works perfectly for me (connecting a 3080 GPU to a 4K projector).

https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Op...ible/dp/B091DT28SF?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1


----------



## Otto Pylot

Manish4u said:


> Distance from Projector to AVR should be around ~22'. I was not sure hence i ordered more long cable. I'm thinking of buying another 25' cable. that should reduce the lag.
> 
> Regards
> Manish


General rule of thumb is to use a single cable, source to sink, where ever possible. Any cable that BB recommends, while possibly a good cable, is usually overpriced. BB gets a percentage of each cable sold, hence the cost.

If you feel you need a cable that is certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets (you're a gamer for example) then you should look at either Cable Matters or Phoossno. The both offer ATC certified, UHS HDMI cables at the length you need.

@StephenBishop I remembered Phoossno this time  .


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> @StephenBishop I remembered Phoossno this time  .


----------



## Manish4u

StephenBishop said:


> I am using the phoossno certified 8K HDMI 2.1 15m UHS version- it works perfectly for me (connecting a 3080 GPU to a 4K projector).
> 
> Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps 50ft 15m phoossno HDR eARC HDCP2.2 2.3 Support 4K 120Hz 8K60Hz Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC: Industrial & Scientific


Thanks will look into the cable.


----------



## Manish4u

Otto Pylot said:


> General rule of thumb is to use a single cable, source to sink, where ever possible. Any cable that BB recommends, while possibly a good cable, is usually overpriced. BB gets a percentage of each cable sold, hence the cost.
> 
> If you feel you need a cable that is certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets (you're a gamer for example) then you should look at either Cable Matters or Phoossno. The both offer ATC certified, UHS HDMI cables at the length you need.
> 
> @StephenBishop I remembered Phoossno this time  .


thanks Will look for Phoossno cable.


----------



## micah bjj

Need some basic help. Switching from my 1080p to wall mounted oled. Want to run wires once and be done with it. Looking for 10ft in wall certified 2.1

the monoprice is only a couple bucks cheaper than the zeskit on amazon. Any reason to go one brand over the other or it is just a pick em?


----------



## Otto Pylot

micah bjj said:


> Need some basic help. Switching from my 1080p to wall mounted oled. Want to run wires once and be done with it. Looking for 10ft in wall certified 2.1
> 
> the moo price is only a couple bucks cheaper than the zeskit on amazon. Any reason to go one brand over the other or it is just a pick em?


"Moo price"? 

CL2/3 rated cabling is for fire only. It has nothing to do with performance. Unless you think you may have a home inspection someday that includes a/v wiring, I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor.

If you can run your in-wall cabling between the studs, and use pass-thru wall plates, installation should be easier and safer because you will have relatively easy access to your cabling for upgrades/repairs etc, and you can control the bend radius somewhat. If not, then installing a conduit, if possible, is highly recommended.

At 10', I'd recommend the Zeskit Lite, certified UHS HDMI cable. This is their new version which has a slightly thinner cable and better bend radius. It's passive so there should be no issues that can sometimes happen with active cables. Just run the cable, source to sink, and be mindful of the bend radius as you don't want sharp bends or stress on the HDMI ports. Certified, passive, UHS HDMI cables are generally thicker because of the certification requirements so they are not as flexible as active cables, copper-only or hybrid fiber. This new version of the Zeskit cable appears to have improved on that. I have both, the original and Lite Zeskit cables and I prefer the Lite version because of the improved flexibility. Performance-wise, they are identical.


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## Duc Vu

Sorry, new to the thread. Has someone tested this Ugreen hdmi 2.1 cable yet: https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Support-Dynamic-Compatible-Nintendo/dp/B091KB7G6J
I can't find any certified cable in my country.


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## Otto Pylot

Duc Vu said:


> Sorry, new to the thread. Has someone tested this Ugreen hdmi 2.1 cable yet: Amazon.com: UGREEN 8K 48Gbps HDMI Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 Support 8K 60Hz Dynamic HDR Dolby Vision eARC Compatible for Xbox One Nintendo Switch Samsung TV Roku PS5 Nylon Braided 6 Feet: Industrial & Scientific
> I can't find any certified cable in my country.


The few reviews I've seen on Ugreen cables are mixed, mostly negative. At 2m or so you may not have any issues so it might be worth a shot. If all you need is a passive, certified UHS HDMI cable then check to see if Zeskit, Ruipro, or Maxonar are available. They are all ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. Keep in mind that passive cables are a bit stiff so keep bend radius in mind and you don't want any strain on the HDMI ports.


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## Duc Vu

Otto Pylot said:


> The few reviews I've seen on Ugreen cables are mixed, mostly negative. At 2m or so you may not have any issues so it might be worth a shot. If all you need is a passive, certified UHS HDMI cable then check to see if Zeskit, Ruipro, or Maxonar are available. They are all ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. Keep in mind that passive cables are a bit stiff so keep bend radius in mind and you don't want any strain on the HDMI ports.


The thing is I can't find those brands in my countries.


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## Otto Pylot

Duc Vu said:


> The thing is I can't find those brands in my countries.


That's unfortunate. Then try the Ugreen cable. At your length it just may work ok.


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## Ruby D

GeekGirl said:


> Is anyone familiar with SnapAV? My local retailer, a locally owned small high-def audio and home theater business that's been around for 40 years, sold me a 3m cable for $40.
> 
> I found the website: Binary™ BX Series 8K Ultra HD High Speed HDMI® Cable with GripTek™
> 
> Apparently, SnapAV only sells to installers. The cable is well-built, but the specs show that they aren't Premium Certified (Support --> Binary BX Cutsheet PDF).


I just tested this exact cable Binary BX Series 8K on my Denon AVR-X6700H using the built in hdmi cable tester yesterday. It was only a one meter length. I was testing it for my friend who was experiencing it intermittently blacking out the picture during use -- not good!. I tested it eight times and it failed seven of the eight times. I have tested cables from many brands, and tested them both via the 8K hdmi cable test on my receiver and in real use, and the only 8K certified HDMI cables I recommend now are the shorter length Zeskit (their shorter copper wired versions) or the shorter Cable Matters brand as well as the longer versions of Cable Matters brand -- specifically the 300047 model. Most impressive are the Cable Matters 8K optical cables of either 33 or 49 feet (active optical 8k certified) which both perform flawlessly with my 8K receiver and my 8K (4k upscaling) projector. Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 15m / 49.2 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox, PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific


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## kevindd992002

Are certified monoprice hdmi 2.1 cables any good?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

kevindd992002 said:


> Are certified monoprice hdmi 2.1 cables any good?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


In theory, if the cable comes with the QR label of authenticity on the package, and you scan the code for validation, then it should work well for the HDMI option sets that is was certified for. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility because there are other factors involved in a successful cable connection. 

Decide on the cable length you need and which HDMI option sets you want and then look for cable that meets those needs. The cable is just a data pipe. It can not improve pq if you decide to use a cable certified for HDMI 2.1 but your source and sink devices are HDMI 2.0.


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## Ratman

Only if they work with your setup. 

Seriously... try them and if they don't meet your needs/expectations, return them.


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## Otto Pylot

Ruby D said:


> I just tested this exact cable Binary BX Series 8K on my Denon AVR-X6700H using the built in hdmi cable tester yesterday. It was only a one meter length. I was testing it for my friend who was experiencing it intermittently blacking out the picture during use -- not good!. I tested it eight times and it failed seven of the eight times. I have tested cables from many brands, and tested them both via the 8K hdmi cable test on my receiver and in real use, and the only 8K certified HDMI cables I recommend now are the shorter length Zeskit (their shorter copper wired versions) or the shorter Cable Matters brand as well as the longer versions of Cable Matters brand -- specifically the 300047 model. Most impressive are the Cable Matters 8K optical cables of either 33 or 49 feet (active optical 8k certified) which both perform flawlessly with my 8K receiver and my 8K (4k upscaling) projector. Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) – 15m / 49.2 Feet – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox, PS5, Apple TV: Industrial & Scientific


If the poster's cable run is up to 16' then I'd recommend the Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. They are passive but have a very good bend radius. Ruipro also offers an ATC certified, passive, UHS HDMI cable that also works very well so there are choices for the passive cables. Cable Matters and Phoossno make very good active, certified UHS HDMI cables if an active hybrid fiber cable is needed. It's best to use a passive cable if possible (length limited) because the potential of chipset compatibility between the cable connector ends and the HDMI ports is eliminated, as well as the possibility of active cable failure someday. As long as one has easy access to their cabling, fixing issues is a lot easier and safer should they occur.


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## kevindd992002

Otto Pylot said:


> In theory, if the cable comes with the QR label of authenticity on the package, and you scan the code for validation, then it should work well for the HDMI option sets that is was certified for. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility because there are other factors involved in a successful cable connection.
> 
> Decide on the cable length you need and which HDMI option sets you want and then look for cable that meets those needs. The cable is just a data pipe. It can not improve pq if you decide to use a cable certified for HDMI 2.1 but your source and sink devices are HDMI 2.0.





Ratman said:


> Only if they work with your setup.
> 
> Seriously... try them and if they don't meet your needs/expectations, return them.


Got it. I have one already but I'm still waiting for the updated denon x3700h's to be available for me to test the cable.

Returning cables is not an option for me as I buy from the US and have them forwarded here in the Philippines.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

kevindd992002 said:


> Got it. I have one already but I'm still waiting for the updated denon x3700h's to be available for me to test the cable.
> 
> Returning cables is not an option for me as I buy from the US and have them forwarded here in the Philippines.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


If you have a Monoprice cable that works as expected then order the same one and you should be fine. If you are planning on using the Denon to test your cable's bandwidth keep in mind that while that info is good to know, they might not be as accurate as a standalone bandwidth tester that can cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.


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## kevindd992002

Otto Pylot said:


> If you have a Monoprice cable that works as expected then order the same one and you should be fine. If you are planning on using the Denon to test your cable's bandwidth keep in mind that while that info is good to know, they might not be as accurate as a standalone bandwidth tester that can cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars.


Yeah, I still don't know if the cable is working as expected because I still don't have the Denon AVR. 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


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## G-Rex

Just received the WireWorld Stellar hybrid fiber optic cable. It is 2.1 certified. It is 15 meters long and resides between my McIntosh MX170 and the Envy video processor. As such I have no way of testing it relative to high gbps, but what I will say is the build quality is excellent, and the syncing has been consistently spot on.


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## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Just received the WireWorld Stellar hybrid fiber optic cable. It is 2.1 certified. It is 15 meters long and resides between my McIntosh MX170 and the Envy video processor. As such I have no way of testing it relative to high gbps, but what I will say is the build quality is excellent, and the syncing has been consistently spot on.


If the cable meets your needs and expectations, then the actual bandwidth is irrelevant because it's working as expected. 15m is pretty long, even for a hybrid fiber cable so it's nice that you found one that works for you. Congrats.


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## StephenBishop

G-Rex said:


> Just received the WireWorld Stellar hybrid fiber optic cable. It is 2.1 certified. It is 15 meters long and resides between my McIntosh MX170 and the Envy video processor. As such I have no way of testing it relative to high gbps, but what I will say is the build quality is excellent, and the syncing has been consistently spot on.


Great to see more options becoming available to consumers for 2.1 certified UHS cables at the 15m length - at least 3 that I am aware of as of now (Cable Matters, Phoossno and Wireworld Stellar).


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## Chronoptimist

The latest 20m RuiPro 8K-GEN3/C cable is not working for me between an RTX 3060 Ti FE and an LG 48C1 at 4K120 VRR in 10-bit RGB.

Without the USB adapter connected, the connection to the TV was very unreliable.
For the first few days, having the USB adapter connected to the source end worked fine; but last night it started to randomly show flickering/image corruption in bands approximately 1/3 of the screen height - more prevalent in dark scenes (which always seem to stress HDMI cables).
Connecting the USB adapter to the display end stopped the random corruption, but there would be frequent blank frames at random intervals.
I don't currently need a 20m cable, so I'll be trying a shorter version of the same cable as I can't find any alternatives here.
Most of the cost seems to be stepping up to fiber and then the cable length is a relatively minor difference - so I wanted 20m because that is what I'll need in maybe 6 months' time. But it doesn't seem like they are ready yet.
I never seem to have any luck with HDMI/HDBaseT. Very few of the products I buy actually support their rated bandwidth/length - it's like they expect most people to only use half of it.


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## StephenBishop

Chronoptimist said:


> The latest 20m RuiPro 8K-GEN3/C cable is not working for me between an RTX 3060 Ti FE and an LG 48C1 at 4K120 VRR in 10-bit RGB.
> 
> Without the USB adapter connected, the connection to the TV was very unreliable.
> For the first few days, having the USB adapter connected to the source end worked fine; but last night it started to randomly show flickering/image corruption in bands approximately 1/3 of the screen height - more prevalent in dark scenes (which always seem to stress HDMI cables).
> Connecting the USB adapter to the display end stopped the random corruption, but there would be frequent blank frames at random intervals.
> I don't currently need a 20m cable, so I'll be trying a shorter version of the same cable as I can't find any alternatives here.
> Most of the cost seems to be stepping up to fiber and then the cable length is a relatively minor difference - so I wanted 20m because that is what I'll need in maybe 6 months' time. But it doesn't seem like they are ready yet.
> I never seem to have any luck with HDMI/HDBaseT. Very few of the products I buy actually support their rated bandwidth/length - it's like they expect most people to only use half of it.


You may wish to try this one (Phoossno 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable). As far as I am aware this is the only 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable currently in the market. I have the 15m version and it works well albeit between a 3080 gpu and only a 4K projector.


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## Chronoptimist

StephenBishop said:


> You may wish to try this one (Phoossno 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable). As far as I am aware this is the only 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable currently in the market. I have the 15m version and it works well albeit between a 3080 gpu and only a 4K projector.


Thanks for the recommendation. I did check out the other 'certified' cables, but none are available in my region.
I could import one, but then I would not be able to return it if there are problems.
For now, I'll go with a shorter RuiPro cable and hope that it works better. Hopefully by the time I actually need the longer cable something better will be available here.


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## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> You may wish to try this one (Phoossno 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable). As far as I am aware this is the only 20m certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable currently in the market. I have the 15m version and it works well albeit between a 3080 gpu and only a 4K projector.


The Phoossno cables do seem to work well at that distance. They are looking at a shorter version as well which I should be getting for testing purposes in a week or so. Given the cable length required by the OP, Phoossno would be the way to go at this point in time.

@Chronoptimist If the Ruipro cable works with the power inserter, that usually indicates that the current fluctuation at the sink side (tv) is just enough that the chipsets in the cable connector end can't adequately cope with it. That's why Ruipro included the inserter. It shouldn't be that way but with some devices it is. Ruipro is working on an ATC certified, hybrid fiber cable (which will have a different product code to differentiate it from the other Gen 3 series) but it's not ready for prime time yet. HDMI 2.1 devices seem not to be "standardized" yet due to differences in the chipsets and mfrs' requirements, so what combination of cable works with different sets of devices is a real pain. You also might want to check with Cable Matters as well to see if they have plans of offering a certified cable at your length in the future.


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## bigcat

I need a 12 feet 8k certified cable. I’ve already returned one from Monoprice and one from Ruipro because they were too thick and couldn’t bend as needed so I’m hoping going fiber would solve my problem? I have the following identified, any thoughts on these or other options? (Actually, none of these are certified)

Monoprice

RUIPRO


EDIT: the Zeskit lite only gets to 5 feet. The shorter Phoossno is like 32 feet


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## Otto Pylot

bigcat said:


> I need a 12 feet 8k certified cable. I’ve already returned one from Monoprice and one from Ruipro because they were too thick and couldn’t bend as needed so I’m hoping going fiber would solve my problem? I have the following identified, any thoughts on these or other options? (Actually, none of these are certified)
> 
> Monoprice
> 
> RUIPRO
> 
> 
> EDIT: the Zeskit lite only gets to 5 feet. The shorter Phoossno is like 32 feet


Passive, certified UHS HDMI cables are thick because of the wiring requirements needed to meet ATC certification. The Zeskit Lite cables are really nice because they are a bit thinner affording more flexibility. I use them on one of my systems and the Ruipro cables on the other.

The Ruipro cables you link to work for most setups but they are not ATC certified as you noted. They are tested in-house using pretty much the same testing devices and protocols. Ruipro does have a new hybrid fiber cable that is going thru the certification process as we speak but there is not ETA on when it will be released. You might want to look at Cable Matters and see if they offer an ATC certified UHS HDMI cable close to the length that you need.


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## bareyb

For what it's worth, I'm using the 25 foot Ruipros with my Apple TV 4k and they pass Dolby Vision to my Sony 65A9OJ without any problems. CEC and HDR and all the other functions are working as expected.


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## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> For what it's worth, I'm using the 25 foot Ruipros with my Apple TV 4k and they pass Dolby Vision to my Sony 65A9OJ without any problems. CEC and HDR and all the other functions are working as expected.


I responded to your other post. It would be helpful if you kept your responses to a single post as it makes it easier for others to Search for information.


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## gandalfnet

Ruby D said:


> I have been using the Cable Matters model 300047 8K HDMI 2.1 10 meter Active Optical Ultra High Speed Certified cable for over a month now, connected to an 8K e-shift upscaling JVC RS3000 projector and an 8K capable Denon AVR-X6700H receiver and an Oppo UDP-205 Blu-Ray player. It performs flawlessly and easily passed the Denon ultra high speed cable test at 40GBPS on the Denon receiver. There is supposedly is 8K material available -- search for 8K on youtube (Sony and others have posted 8K material) but unless you can process these streams at 8k all the way through the process, the best is output is really just an augmented 4K -- pixel interpolated/upscaled via processors and pixel shift technology to 8K. Nonetheless, I have attached some photos of my testing of this Cable Matters 300047 cable and I am thoroughly impressed with it and would enthusiastically recommend it.
> 
> All of the attached photos were taken with the picture paused on a 135" Stewart StudioTek 130 G4 screen with an iPhone 11 from the front row of my theater (with the exception of the Denon Cable test photos). The pictures of the Cheetah and the Fly were taken with 8K source material at the start, but then streamed via a 4K Firestick to the Denon 8K receiver (so really 4k with some processor upscaling using the 8K Denon output to the projector) and then the projector using its additional 8K upscaling capability. Still, will all this going on, to my eyes, the picture is absolutely stunning on a quality 135" screen. The Monitor Lizard photo was also taken using a freeze frame from the Oppo UDP-205 using a UHD 4K Planet Earth II video disc, which is an exceptionally sharp 4K source. I even had the closet light on in the back of the room and these pictures still came out nicely -- showing the fine focus details this projector can produce when given a high quality source. The colors are outstanding as well.
> 
> For those that are interested, the Cable Matters 300047 10 meter Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 8K certified cable is now sold via Amazon for $99, which I think is an incredible value for a 10 meter cable of this quality and capability. I purchased a pre-final packaging version directly from Cable Matters, but would have purchased it via Amazon had it been available at the time.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-300047-BLK-10m-HDMI/dp/B08GMC7C91/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=cable+matters+300047&qid=1616100705&sr=8-3


Had to upgrade to these for my new 715es and they work perfectly


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## Otto Pylot

gandalfnet said:


> Had to upgrade to these for my new 715es and they work perfectly


Yep. Cable Matters was one of the first to offer ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables and so far they seem to perform as expected. Phoossno is another new member in the ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cable market. Ruipro should be joining them soon as well.


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## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I responded to your other post. It would be helpful if you kept your responses to a single post as it makes it easier for others to Search for information.


No offense, but I wasn't talking to you. I was simply contributing to the thread.


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## Ratman




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## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> No offense, but I wasn't talking to you. I was simply contributing to the thread.


No offense taken.


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## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> No offense taken.


I didn't realize if I responded to a topic in one thread that it was bad form to respond to the same topic in another thread discussing the same thing. That has never been the case at AVS that I'm aware of, in fact quite the opposite. Having said that, I appreciate your desire to keep your topic clean. It's all good.


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## bigcat

gandalfnet said:


> Had to upgrade to these for my new 715es and they work perfectly


Do you mind commenting on the thickness and flexibility of these cables? I was looking at photos posted by amazon reviewers and they looked pretty much like the braided passive Monoprice and ruipro cables I’ve returned already.


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## Otto Pylot

bigcat said:


> Do you mind commenting on the thickness and flexibility of these cables? I was looking at photos posted by amazon reviewers and they looked pretty much like the braided passive Monoprice and ruipro cables I’ve returned already.


If the cables are certified hybrid fiber cables they should be about as flexible as you can get because they are active cables. Certified, passive cables are thicker due to the wire gauge requirements and cable design. That being said, the Zeskit Lite certified passive cables are a bit thinner and have a better flexibility (bend radius), but are distance limited as are all certified passive cables.

A careful cable installation can mitigate bend radius somewhat.


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## Straykatt

After a couple months my second Ruipro cable died also. Both we’re the gen C 33ft, it’s a shame because I like their support and really want it to work. Even though it’s in a conduit it’s still a hassle to get in the attic to replace. My assessment, they do not hold up well to heat over time. The first link below is the ruipro cutting out and the second one is with the trusty zeskit 10ft running perfectly. 

FullSizeRender.mov

IMG_1523.MOV


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## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> After a couple months my second Ruipro cable died also. Both we’re the gen C 33ft, it’s a shame because I like their support and really want it to work. Even though it’s in a conduit it’s still a hassle to get in the attic to replace. My assessment, they do not hold up well to heat over time. The first link below is the ruipro cutting out and the second one is with the trusty zeskit 10ft running perfectly.
> 
> FullSizeRender.mov
> 
> IMG_1523.MOV


That's unfortunate. The operational temperature range is -10C - 70C so this sounds like a batch failure. At 33', you could look at Phoossno or Cable Matters if you need an ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cable. It's not surprising that the passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cable works. I use them on one of my HTS's and the passive Ruipro UHS HDMI cable on the other one. I prefer passive cables because there's no electronics involved so there's no compatibility issues. I did have one passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cable fail on me which Zeskit replaced with their newer, Zeskit Lite cable. Works great and I really like the thinner, passive cable.


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## ManuBBXX

Otto Pylot said:


> That's unfortunate. The operational temperature range is -10C - 70C so this sounds like a batch failure. At 33', you could look at Phoossno or Cable Matters if you need an ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cable. It's not surprising that the passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cable works. I use them on one of my HTS's and the passive Ruipro UHS HDMI cable on the other one. I prefer passive cables because there's no electronics involved so there's no compatibility issues. I did have one passive Zeskit UHS HDMI cable fail on me which Zeskit replaced with their newer, Zeskit Lite cable. Works great and I really like the thinner, passive cable.


How is max length of this passive Zeskit cable ?
Cause I have issues with my new cableMatters 5m, for having 4K120 + GSYNC between an rtx3070 and the Samsung Q95A
The ruiPro failed too after 3 months, when gsync is enabled, same as the cableMatters

Is the 3m not too long for a copper cable ?
What would you recommend to me ?

Thanks a lot


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## Otto Pylot

ManuBBXX said:


> How is max length of this passive Zeskit cable ?
> Cause I have issues with my new cableMatters 5m, for having 4K120 + GSYNC between an rtx3070 and the Samsung Q95A
> The ruiPro failed too after 3 months, when gsync is enabled, same as the cableMatters
> 
> Is the 3m not too long for a copper cable ?
> What would you recommend to me ?
> 
> Thanks a lot


The Zeskit Maya ATC certified UHS HDMI cables can go up to the maximum of 16'. The Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables go up to 5'. The Maya cables are CL2 fire rated if that's important to you so they cable jacket is a bit thicker which results in a loss of flexibility. The Zeskit Lite cables are not CL2 rated to the cable jacket is thinner and more flexible. I use the Zeskit Lite on one of my systems and the Ruipro ATC certified UHS HDMI cables on my other system (they are a bit thick tho). 

GSync issues may be more due to the source/sink device than the cable. HDMI 2.1 is still in its infancy and a lot of device mfrs, imo, rushed to be the first in the marketplace with HDMI 2.1 devices which has caused some initial issues. Gamers are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1 unfortunately.


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## ManuBBXX

Otto Pylot said:


> The Zeskit Maya ATC certified UHS HDMI cables can go up to the maximum of 16'. The Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables go up to 5'. The Maya cables are CL2 fire rated if that's important to you so they cable jacket is a bit thicker which results in a loss of flexibility. The Zeskit Lite cables are not CL2 rated to the cable jacket is thinner and more flexible. I use the Zeskit Lite on one of my systems and the Ruipro ATC certified UHS HDMI cables on my other system (they are a bit thick tho).
> 
> GSync issues may be more due to the source/sink device than the cable. HDMI 2.1 is still in its infancy and a lot of device mfrs, imo, rushed to be the first in the marketplace with HDMI 2.1 devices which has caused some initial issues. Gamers are the beta testers for HDMI 2.1 unfortunately.


Thanks for your response.
Anyway, gsync worked flawlessly with short copper cable ( moshou 1m ), I think active fiber cables are not the best for it.
And yes, the zeskit maya is very thick, but I think I'll have to live with it.

I need the 3m
The 5m gave me issues, and I returned it back some months ago


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## Otto Pylot

ManuBBXX said:


> Thanks for your response.
> Anyway, gsync worked flawlessly with short copper cable ( moshou 1m ), I think active fiber cables are not the best for it.
> And yes, the zeskit maya is very thick, but I think I'll have to live with it.
> 
> I need the 3m
> The 5m gave me issues, and I returned it back some months ago


I’ve been using the 1.5m Zeskit Lite and they work very well with good flexibility.


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## Straykatt

If Ruipro and cable matters have a trend not working over time, which 33ft cables do work?


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## bareyb

What about the Monoprice Fiber Optic Cables? They have lower power consumption than the Ruipros and don't require a power injector. They come in long lengths.



Products no longer Available


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## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> If Ruipro and cable matters have a trend not working over time, which 33ft cables do work?


As mentioned before, there are no 100% guarantees on which cables will be reliable over time and with which devices. I've seen cables from various mfrs' work fine for a few months and then with a firmware update to a device, the cables start having issues. Or with no updates, the cables just start crapping out. HDMI 2.1, imo, was rushed to the consumers without careful coordination amongst the device mfrs and the cable mfrs. They just wanted their products to be the first in the marketplace to garner market share and have the consumers (gamers, the real beta testers) report the problems and deal with it fixed.

As to your question, you can try Phoossno next.


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## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> What about the Monoprice Fiber Optic Cables? They have lower power consumption than the Ruipros and don't require a power injector. They come in long lengths.
> 
> 
> 
> Products no longer Available


Ruipro cables do not require a voltage inserter. They just included one in case there was a current fluctuation in the HDMI port that was too high or inconsistent for the cable chipsets to properly handle. This was first seen with some projectors so Ruipro thought to include one in case it was needed to possibly correct the issue.

According to HDMI 2.1 specs:
The output voltage of the Source shall be 4.8v-5.3v and the Short Circuit Current is no more than 0.5A. The Sink shall draw no more than 55mA and will assume that any voltage between 4.8v and 5.3v indicates a source is connected. So, the HDMI cable is designed to detect 5.0v/50-55mA. That is the standard so I'm not sure what Monoprice Fiber Optic Cables exactly mean by lower power consumption. They are either in spec or they are not.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro cables do not require a voltage inserter. They just included one in case there was a current fluctuation in the HDMI port that was too high or inconsistent for the cable chipsets to properly handle. This was first seen with some projectors so Ruipro thought to include one in case it was needed to possibly correct the issue.
> 
> According to HDMI 2.1 specs:
> The output voltage of the Source shall be 4.8v-5.3v and the Short Circuit Current is no more than 0.5A. The Sink shall draw no more than 55mA and will assume that any voltage between 4.8v and 5.3v indicates a source is connected. So, the HDMI cable is designed to detect 5.0v/50-55mA. That is the standard so I'm not sure what Monoprice Fiber Optic Cables exactly mean by lower power consumption. They are either in spec or they are not.


My older TiVo Box required the Inserter in order to function. There's no picture without it. I've gotten a few audio glitches on the TiVo where I had to change inputs back and forth to fix it, but not sure if it was the fault of the cable or the TiVo box. The Apple TV works without the inserter though and I haven't had any problems with it. 

The Monoprice cables say that they only need 250 mA to work and don't need an inserter under any circumstances.


----------



## bareyb

delete


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> My older TiVo Box required the Inserter in order to function. There's no picture without it. I've gotten a few audio glitches on the TiVo where I had to change inputs back and forth to fix it, but not sure if it was the fault of the cable or the TiVo box. The Apple TV works without the inserter though and I haven't had any problems with it.
> 
> The Monoprice cables say that they only need 250 mA to work and don't need an inserter under any circumstances.


If your old TiVo box needed a voltage inserter to work then it was probably due to the TiVo box and not the cable. Both of my ATV4k's (Gen 1 and Gen 2) have always worked fine with any cable I've used (passive, active, AOC).

250mA is a lot higher than the 50mA-55mA current draw for the HDMI spec. The Monoprice cable you link to is for the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps), is not certified (if that makes a difference to you), and states that it draws less than 50mA of power. I'm not sure where the 250mA comes from. This sounds like a garden-variety hybrid fiber cable (polymer fiber core, not glass fiber core). All that matters is if it works and if so reliably, you've got your cable.

Keep in mind that Monoprice does not mfr cables. They are reseller and rarely, if ever, check the product description for accuracy or reliability. I've used Monoprice cables in the past and they were fine (for the HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 2.0 option sets).


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> If your old TiVo box needed a voltage inserter to work then it was probably due to the TiVo box and not the cable. Both of my ATV4k's (Gen 1 and Gen 2) have always worked fine with any cable I've used (passive, active, AOC).
> 
> 250mA is a lot higher than the 50mA-55mA current draw for the HDMI spec. The Monoprice cable you link to is for the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps), is not certified (if that makes a difference to you), and states that it draws less than 50mA of power. I'm not sure where the 250mA comes from. This sounds like a garden-variety hybrid fiber cable (polymer fiber core, not glass fiber core). All that matters is if it works and if so reliably, you've got your cable.
> 
> Keep in mind that Monoprice does not mfr cables. They are reseller and rarely, if ever, check the product description for accuracy or reliability. I've used Monoprice cables in the past and they were fine (for the HDMI 1.4 and HDMI 2.0 option sets).


I meant to say 50 mA. It's almost certainly the TiVo Box not putting out enough voltage. FWIW, I'm using the Ruipro cables on both of my devices. I was just throwing out the Monoprice as an option for Straykatt. If I continue to have problems with the TiVo I'll likely just get a passive copper cable and see if that works. That's what I had before with my old TV and it worked for years without a glitch. I think a lot of the problem is just the fact that the box is probably still on HDMI 1.x. It hardly ever happens so I may just live with it. The Ruipros are already fished through the walls and under the house. Won't be easy to swap them out.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Both of my ATV4k's (Gen 1 and Gen 2) have always worked fine with any cable I've used (passive, active, AOC).


Did you happen to notice any functional or perceptible Picture quality difference between the Gen 1 ATV4k and the New Gen 2?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Did you happen to notice any functional or perceptible Picture quality difference between the Gen 1 ATV4k and the New Gen 2?


No. Other than the occasional streaming provider issues (not ATV related). Both ATV's worked great when feeding my LG OLED.


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## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> No. Other than the occasional streaming provider issues (not ATV related). Both ATV's worked great when feeding my LG OLED.


Thanks. It's supposed to have a faster Processor and High frame rate Dolby Vision/HDR. Also HDMI 2.1 although they aren't using it for anything yet. Wondered if that translated into snappier performance etc. 

How do you like the new remote?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Thanks. It's supposed to have a faster Processor and High frame rate Dolby Vision/HDR. Also HDMI 2.1 although they aren't using it for anything yet. Wondered if that translated into snappier performance etc.
> 
> How do you like the new remote?


There are some improvements over the Gen 1 but nothing really spectacular. The TVOS is a bit snappier but as far as pq quality goes, I don't see any real perceptible difference. HDMI 2.1 means nothing to me because I'm not a gamer so there really isn't any advantage for that at this point in time. Besides, my receiver is HDMI 2.0 so it's "limited" to the specs that require 18Gbps.

I like the new remote but I rarely use it because I prefer what I can do with my Harmony remotes as far as total control over my HTS's. If Apple could make the Siri remote a true universal remote, I'd dump the Harmony's in a heat beat.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> There are some improvements over the Gen 1 but nothing really spectacular. The TVOS is a bit snappier but as far as pq quality goes, I don't see any real perceptible difference. HDMI 2.1 means nothing to me because I'm not a gamer so there really isn't any advantage for that at this point in time. Besides, my receiver is HDMI 2.0 so it's "limited" to the specs that require 18Gbps.
> 
> I like the new remote but I rarely use it because I prefer what I can do with my Harmony remotes as far as total control over my HTS's. If Apple could make the Siri remote a true universal remote, I'd dump the Harmony's in a heat beat.


I'm still using the venerable old MX-500 but was thinking about upgrading to the Harmony. Is your Harmony able to "learn" RF codes (not even sure if that's possible) or is preloaded and you get what you get?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> I'm still using the venerable old MX-500 but was thinking about upgrading to the Harmony. Is your Harmony able to "learn" RF codes (not even sure if that's possible) or is preloaded and you get what you get?


Before you get carried away with Harmony remotes you need to know that Logitech has stopped production of the Harmony line. It is unclear as to how long they will maintain the database for activating and updating their remotes. Hopefully for a couple of more years. If someone else purchases the database and maintains it my guess is that it will be behind a pay wall . If you can find them online the prices have skyrocketed because sellers are taking advantage of the end of the Harmony line. I have a couple of extra ones that I have already programmed for both of my HTS's in case the current ones eventually die.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Before you get carried away with Harmony remotes you need to know that Logitech has stopped production of the Harmony line. It is unclear as to how long they will maintain the database for activating and updating their remotes. Hopefully for a couple of more years. If someone else purchases the database and maintains it my guess is that it will be behind a pay wall . If you can find them online the prices have skyrocketed because sellers are taking advantage of the end of the Harmony line. I have a couple of extra ones that I have already programmed for both of my HTS's in case the current ones eventually die.


Oh wow.That's too bad, those are really popular.


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## bareyb

Oh bother. I'm beginning to get a lot of "no signal detected" type errors on the Fiber Cable with the Apple TV 4k now too. So both 25 foot fiber cables on two different devices are having problems... and the Tivo is getting worse. Had to reset it 4 times in an hour tonight.

I'm starting to wonder if Active Fiber was the way to go. I ordered a couple of 13 foot _certified_ passive copper cables from Zeskit and if the problems disappear I think I'm gonna have to send the Fiber ones back.


----------



## ManuBBXX

bareyb said:


> Oh bother. I'm beginning to get a lot of "no signal detected" type errors on the Fiber Cable with the Apple TV 4k now too. So both 25 foot fiber cables on two different devices are having problems... and the Tivo is getting worse. Had to reset it 4 times in an hour tonight.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if Active Fiber was the way to go. I ordered a couple of 13 foot _certified_ passive copper cables from Zeskit and if the problems disappear I think I'm gonna have to send the Fiber ones back.


VERY interested to have your feedback with a passive copper cable with that length

Having problems here too with GSYNC with active fiber cables on Q95A, and I just order the 3meters ruiPro copper passive
Let see how it goes for us 

Ohh, just sway it, and seems okay with Q90T ( but my Q95A is different as it has oneConnect ) :









FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech


FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech



www.amazon.fr


----------



## Otto Pylot

ManuBBXX said:


> VERY interested to have your feedback with a passive copper cable with that length
> 
> Having problems here too with GSYNC with active fiber cables on Q95A, and I just order the 3meters ruiPro copper passive
> Let see how it goes for us
> 
> Ohh, just sway it, and seems okay with Q90T ( but my Q95A is different as it has oneConnect ) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.fr


Feizlink is a company that was started by an ex-Ruipro employee. They don't use the proprietary technology that Ruipro has and their build quality is not quite as good as Ruipro's but the cable do work well for a lot of folks. It can't hurt to try and if it works, you're good.

As far as the Ruipro UHS HDMI cables, they are thick (I have some here) but do work very well so make sure you pay close attention to the bend radius and you don't want to place any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Zeskit would be another choice for certified, passive UHS HDMI cables.

The GSync issue seems to be coming up a lot with the Q95A's but not so much with the QN90A's. It could be a Samsung issue and not necessarily the cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Oh bother. I'm beginning to get a lot of "no signal detected" type errors on the Fiber Cable with the Apple TV 4k now too. So both 25 foot fiber cables on two different devices are having problems... and the Tivo is getting worse. Had to reset it 4 times in an hour tonight.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if Active Fiber was the way to go. I ordered a couple of 13 foot _certified_ passive copper cables from Zeskit and if the problems disappear I think I'm gonna have to send the Fiber ones back.


I've never had any issues with any type of cable, passive/active, copper/hybrid fiber with either one of my ATV's. ATV4k -> receiver -> tv. I don't remember but is this a direct connection to the tv or are you going thru a receiver. And is the cable run basically a direct run (no sharp bends or any other devices in-between)?


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I've never had any issues with any type of cable, passive/active, copper/hybrid fiber with either one of my ATV's. ATV4k -> receiver -> tv. I don't remember but is this a direct connection to the tv or are you going thru a receiver. And is the cable run basically a direct run (no sharp bends or any other devices in-between)?


Direct run from the ATV4k and the TiVo directly to the TV's two 2.1 inputs (ATV is on the ARC input). No sharp bends. Almost seems like the ATV loses connection sometimes when it's switching from a 4k SDR source to something that's in 4k Dolby Vision in the AppleTV+ App. So not exactly sure if the problem with Apple's servers or the cable. For now I've turned off Rate and Frame Matching on the ATV to see if that makes any difference. So far today, so good. 

The TiVo on the other hand is definitely having audio issues where the lips and the voices don't match up and it starts making a garbled sound. If I switch inputs back and forth it goes away. Had the same TiVo on a 25 foot cable attached to my old Sony LED TV and it worked fine for years.

It's encouraging that you haven't had any problems with your ATV4k. May I ask how long of a run you have between your receiver and the TV? Also, If you have any troubleshooting suggestions. I'm all ears.


----------



## bareyb

ManuBBXX said:


> VERY interested to have your feedback with a passive copper cable with that length
> 
> Having problems here too with GSYNC with active fiber cables on Q95A, and I just order the 3meters ruiPro copper passive
> Let see how it goes for us
> 
> Ohh, just sway it, and seems okay with Q90T ( but my Q95A is different as it has oneConnect ) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.fr


I'm hoping to eliminate the problem by running as short a passive, copper, HDMI 2.1 cable as I can inside the house, and then if that works, see if their 23 foot cable works. If so, I can run it under the house again.

If that doesn't work I will try a 10 foot HDMI_ 2.0 _cable. Maybe the TiVo doesn't like HDMI 2.1? If that doesn't work, I'll swap TiVos with the one in the bedroom and see if the problem is on the TiVo box. If that doesn't work, I'll probably dump TiVo and get the DVR that comes with our Xfinity service. Those are more modern and have HDMI 2.0 ports on them, unlike the TiVo which is from 2014 and uses HDMI 1.x.

My biggest fear is that the problem is with the TV although it seems unlikely. I moved the TiVo to a different input on the TV and the problem followed the TIVo. So I'm hopeful it's the TiVo or the Cable. Anyone who has unpacked one of these very large TVs is already aware how much of a pain it would be to get it all back in the box again and shipped back.


----------



## ManuBBXX

Otto Pylot said:


> Feizlink is a company that was started by an ex-Ruipro employee. They don't use the proprietary technology that Ruipro has and their build quality is not quite as good as Ruipro's but the cable do work well for a lot of folks. It can't hurt to try and if it works, you're good.
> 
> As far as the Ruipro UHS HDMI cables, they are thick (I have some here) but do work very well so make sure you pay close attention to the bend radius and you don't want to place any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Zeskit would be another choice for certified, passive UHS HDMI cables.
> 
> The GSync issue seems to be coming up a lot with the Q95A's but not so much with the QN90A's. It could be a Samsung issue and not necessarily the cables.


I agree with you, the problem seems to be with one connect box and active cables( it just works with passive copper short cables ), but I can't set the PC at 1m of the Q95A's box


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Direct run from the ATV4k and the TiVo directly to the TV's two 2.1 inputs (ATV is on the ARC input). No sharp bends. Almost seems like the ATV loses connection sometimes when it's switching from a 4k SDR source to something that's in 4k Dolby Vision in the AppleTV+ App. So not exactly sure if the problem with Apple's servers or the cable. For now I've turned off Rate and Frame Matching on the ATV to see if that makes any difference. So far today, so good.
> 
> The TiVo on the other hand is definitely having audio issues where the lips and the voices don't match up and it starts making a garbled sound. If I switch inputs back and forth it goes away. Had the same TiVo on a 25 foot cable attached to my old Sony LED TV and it worked fine for years.
> 
> It's encouraging that you haven't had any problems with your ATV4k. May I ask how long of a run you have between your receiver and the TV? Also, If you have any troubleshooting suggestions. I'm all ears.


Both of my ATV4k's (Gen 1 and Gen 2) are set as follows:

Video
Enable Dolby Vision
Format - 4k SDR @60Hz
HDMI Output - YCbCr
Chroma - 4:2:0
Match Content - Range & Frame Rate
Match Dynamic Range - On
Match Frame Rate - On

Audio
Audio Output - TV Speakers (HDMI) - enabled

I don't use or need ARC as my receiver is the hub of both of my HTS's.

My longest cable run was 10' as both of my systems sit on media consoles so distance is not a factor with my systems.

I don't need or use ARC/CEC. You might want to disable ARC/CEC on all of your HDMI connected devices and see if the issues persist. On some systems, CEC needs to be enabled for ARC to work so if there are issues with CEC (which is not uncommon) it can affect ARC.

Switching sources may cause a very brief delay due to handshaking but it's usually no more than 1-2 seconds on either of my systems.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Both of my ATV4k's (Gen 1 and Gen 2) are set as follows:
> 
> Video
> Enable Dolby Vision
> Format - 4k SDR @60Hz
> HDMI Output - YCbCr
> Chroma - 4:2:0
> Match Content - Range & Frame Rate
> Match Dynamic Range - On
> Match Frame Rate - On
> 
> Audio
> Audio Output - TV Speakers (HDMI) - enabled
> 
> I don't use or need ARC as my receiver is the hub of both of my HTS's.
> 
> My longest cable run was 10' as both of my systems sit on media consoles so distance is not a factor with my systems.
> 
> I don't need or use ARC/CEC. You might want to disable ARC/CEC on all of your HDMI connected devices and see if the issues persist. On some systems, CEC needs to be enabled for ARC to work so if there are issues with CEC (which is not uncommon) it can affect ARC.
> 
> Switching sources may cause a very brief delay due to handshaking but it's usually no more than 1-2 seconds on either of my systems.


Thanks Otto. I've got a new AppleTV 4k with 2.1 that I'm gonna swap out today and see what happens. Also, may try swapping The TiVo in the bedroom for the one in the Living Room and see if they both do the same thing. The passive copper cable I'm trying is 13', so it's longer than the standard 10' limit but the same cables go all the way up to 23' are very heavy gauge and are both certified.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Thanks Otto. I've got a new AppleTV 4k with 2.1 that I'm gonna swap out today and see what happens. Also, may try swapping The TiVo in the bedroom for the one in the Living Room and see if they both do the same thing. The passive copper cable I'm trying is 13', so it's longer than the standard 10' limit but the same cables go all the way up to 23' are very heavy gauge and are both certified.


10' limit for what? A lot of cables around the 10' length will work, up to a point. As far as HDMI 2.1 capability of the ATV4k, Gen2, I'm not sure how useful that is at present. I haven't seen the independent testing results yet but my guess it is limited to 40Gbps like most HDMI 2.1 devices are now. There is no source material that requires the full 48Gbps and probably won't be for a long time.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> 10' limit for what? A lot of cables around the 10' length will work, up to a point. As far as HDMI 2.1 capability of the ATV4k, Gen2, I'm not sure how useful that is at present. I haven't seen the independent testing results yet but my guess it is limited to 40Gbps like most HDMI 2.1 devices are now. There is no source material that requires the full 48Gbps and probably won't be for a long time.


10' is the previous limit for _certified_ HDMI 2.1.Cables. Zeskit has apparently been able to produce some solid core cables with huge conductors that were capable of getting certified at longer lengths, supposedly up to 23".

The reason I'm upgrading to the new version of the ATV4k is I think the faster processor would be beneficial switching between formats and the fact it's newer and is HDMI 2.1 "may" make it work a little better with my HDMI 2.1 TV . For how cheap they are and the fact that I can put the Gen1 in the bedroom I figured there was no downside to trying it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> 10' is the previous limit for _certified_ HDMI 2.1.Cables. Zeskit has apparently been able to produce some solid core cables with huge conductors that were capable of getting certified at longer lengths, supposedly up to 23".
> 
> The reason I'm upgrading to the new version of the ATV4k is I think the faster processor would be beneficial switching between formats and the fact it's newer and is HDMI 2.1 "may" make it work a little better with my HDMI 2.1 TV . For how cheap they are and the fact that I can put the Gen1 in the bedroom I figured there was no downside to trying it.


Ah yes, 3m (about 10') was the initial spec for passive, UHS HDMI cables. The Maya Zeskit cables can go up 16' and are CL3 rated. The Zeskit Lite can only go up to 5', so far. Your reasoning for the Gen 2 ATV4k is pretty close to mine, even tho my devices are HDMI 2.0b only. The Gen 1 is now downstairs being used on my 10-year old LCD which is HD only. I will be replacing that tv around October with the Samsung QN90A because the room is very bright and the panel faces curtained windows.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Ah yes, 3m (about 10') was the initial spec for passive, UHS HDMI cables. The Maya Zeskit cables can go up 16' and are CL3 rated. The Zeskit Lite can only go up to 5', so far. Your reasoning for the Gen 2 ATV4k is pretty close to mine, even tho my devices are HDMI 2.0b only. The Gen 1 is now downstairs being used on my 10-year old LCD which is HD only. I will be replacing that tv around October with the Samsung QN90A because the room is very bright and the panel faces curtained windows.


They actually have a 23 footer now that is certified. I hope to use one of them if the shorter one works, but I wanted to go as short as possible first to rule out the Cable as the problem. 









Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 23ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5 : Electronics


Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 23ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5 : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> They actually have a 23 footer now that is certified. I hope to use one of them if the shorter one works, but I wanted to go as short as possible first to rule out the Cable as the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 23ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5 : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Zeskit Maya 8K 48Gbps Certified Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 23ft CL3 In Wall Rated, 4K120 8K60 eARC HDR HDCP 2.2 2.3 Compatible with Dolby Vision Apple TV 4K Roku Sony LG Samsung Xbox Series X PS4 PS5 : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


The Maya cable should work just fine but keep in mind that the cable will be stiff so you won't have much flexibility. Part of the loss of flexibility on this particular cable is the jacket requirement for the CL3 fire rating. It's always best if you can shorten your run if at all possible.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> The Maya cable should work just fine but keep in mind that the cable will be stiff so you won't have much flexibility. Part of the loss of flexibility on this particular cable is the jacket requirement for the CL3 fire rating. It's always best if you can shorten your run if at all possible.


Yeah. If it doesn't look too bad I may just leave the 13 footer draped across the floor to the TV. My wife on the other hand, likes it hidden under the house, so we'll see what happens. 

By the way, Got the new AppleTV 4k Gen 2 hooked up and it seems really solid. I already like the new remote better. Oddly, Apple turns off matching by default, so I'm just gonna leave it like that for now. 

One thing I noticed is omg, the HDMI connector on that Fiber Cable on the ATV side gets HOTTTTT! it's no wonder they don't last as long as passive cables do. That chip must be working overtime in there.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Yeah. If it doesn't look too bad I may just leave the 13 footer draped across the floor to the TV. My wife on the other hand, likes it hidden under the house, so we'll see what happens.
> 
> By the way, Got the new AppleTV 4k Gen 2 hooked up and it seems really solid. I already like the new remote better. Oddly, Apple turns off matching by default, so I'm just gonna leave it like that for now.
> 
> One thing I noticed is omg, the HDMI connector on that Fiber Cable on the ATV side gets HOTTTTT! it's no wonder they don't last as long as passive cables do. That chip must be working overtime in there.


Which cable do you have connected to the ATV4k? I've used Ruipro 8k hybrid fiber Gen 3-C (not certified), Ruipro certified passive cable, Zeskit certified passive cable, and I just setup a short version of the Phoossno 8k hybrid fiber cable. None of those cables were hot. Maybe a bit warm but certainly not hot enough to cause any concern.

I don't know why Apple defaults matching to off but the recommended settings are what I posted earlier.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Which cable do you have connected to the ATV4k? I've used Ruipro 8k hybrid fiber Gen 3-C (not certified), Ruipro certified passive cable, Zeskit certified passive cable, and I just setup a short version of the Phoossno 8k hybrid fiber cable. None of those cables were hot. Maybe a bit warm but certainly not hot enough to cause any concern.
> 
> I don't know why Apple defaults matching to off but the recommended settings are what I posted earlier.


These 25 Foot Ruipro 8K CL2's. The Connector is aluminum so maybe it's a heat sink? I'll have to see how hot it gets with the new Apple TV. It was VERY hot with the old one. Maybe there's something wrong with it? I'll need to contact the seller and see what's what. Thanks for the heads up.









Amazon.com: RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 25 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV : Electronics


Buy RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 25 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> These 25 Foot Ruipro 8K CL2's. The Connector is aluminum so maybe it's a heat sink? I'll have to see how hot it gets with the new Apple TV. It was VERY hot with the old one. Maybe there's something wrong with it? I'll need to contact the seller and see what's what. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 25 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2 Rated 25 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I'd contact Ruipro directly. There was a batch of their 8k cables that didn't dissipate the heat well so it could have been poorly designed heat sinks. However, the issue was with the cables being connected to the new HDMI 2.1 GPUs and the thought was that the heat was being generated by the board, transferred to the connector, and not dissipated correctly. I've never heard of it happening with the ATV4k's. As I mentioned, I've been testing the Gen 3/C cables for almost a year (all three generations in fact) and never noticed any appreciable heat at the connector.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I'd contact Ruipro directly. There was a batch of their 8k cables that didn't dissipate the heat well so it could have been poorly designed heat sinks. However, the issue was with the cables being connected to the new HDMI 2.1 GPUs and the thought was that the heat was being generated by the board, transferred to the connector, and not dissipated correctly. I've never heard of it happening with the ATV4k's. As I mentioned, I've been testing the Gen 3/C cables for almost a year (all three generations in fact) and never noticed any appreciable heat at the connector.


Huh. For whatever reason, both of them are running at what I'd consider a normal temperature now. The ATV blows heat directly at it so it's a little warm, but not overly so. I'm relieved, I don't need any more problems today.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Huh. For whatever reason, both of them are running at what I'd consider a normal temperature now. The ATV blows heat directly at it so it's a little warm, but not overly so. I'm relieved, I don't need any more problems today.


I can appreciate that . What I did with my ATV4k is set it on its side so that the heat dissipated straight out instead of down on the media console top. Probably doesn't make any difference but it didn't seem to be a bad idea just in case, especially if I'm on a binge streak.


----------



## Ellebob

I didn't know the Harmony remotes were tough to come by. Where I work they're discounting them trying to get rid of them. I know they have a few 2400 pro models.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I can appreciate that . What I did with my ATV4k is set it on its side so that the heat dissipated straight out instead of down on the media console top. Probably doesn't make any difference but it didn't seem to be a bad idea just in case, especially if I'm on a binge streak.


You know... that's not a bad idea... 🤔


----------



## bareyb

What's the general consensus amongst the experts here on Hot Swapping active/passive HDMI Cables? Seems mixed on the Internet.


----------



## Ratman

"Hot swapping" is not a good practice., whether active or passive cable.
Impatience could be costly. It only takes an extra minute to be cautious.


----------



## bareyb

Ratman said:


> "Hot swapping" is not a good practice., whether active or passive cable.
> Impatience could be costly. It only takes an extra minute to be cautious.


Agree. I wasn't going to do it, I just wondered if I was being overly cautious. If you Google it, a lot of sources say that hot swapping is built-in to the Protocol.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Not a good idea to hot swap HMDI cables, especially active cables. Static electricity alone could damage the HDMI chipsets.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Not a good idea to hot swap HMDI cables, especially active cables. Static electricity alone could damage the HDMI chipsets.


That's always been my take. Just thought it was interesting that a lot of sources say it's built in to the protocol. New Copper Cable just showed up.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> That's always been my take. Just thought it was interesting that a lot of sources say it's built in to the protocol. New Copper Cable just showed up.


Let us know how the cable works. Good luck!


----------



## Ratman

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. (I read that before there was an internet)


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Let us know how the cable works. Good luck!


Okay. It's all hooked up to the 13 foot Zeskit. No power injector needed with these of course, which feels lot cleaner to me. PQ is good, sound is working fine so far. Now... We wait.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Okay. It's all hooked up to the 13 foot Zeskit. No power injector needed with these of course, which feels lot cleaner to me. PQ is good, sound is working fine so far. Now... We wait.


Please keep in mind that the power inserters are only intended for active cables, IF NEEDED. They are not intended for passive cables and will have no effect.


----------



## bareyb

> Okay. It's all hooked up to the 13 foot Zeskit. No power injector needed with these of course, which feels lot cleaner to me...





Otto Pylot said:


> Please keep in mind that the power inserters are only intended for active cables, IF NEEDED. They are not intended for passive cables and will have no effect.


Well of course not. That's what I said. I just was pointing out that I prefer NOT to use them as I think it's cleaner. Inserters are just one more link in the chain that can fail over time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Well of course not. That's what I said. I just was pointing out that I prefer NOT to use them as I think it's cleaner. Inserters are just one more link in the chain that can fail over time.


Zeskit makes good cables. I use them so you should be ok, especially at 13' as long as you have a good installation.


----------



## ManuBBXX

Okay folks, just found my big problem of GSYNC not working with ALL hdmi 2.1 cables

So I just received the Phoossno cable, and as the ruipro, as the cableMatters, 4K120 WITH gsync resulted of black screen
And the problem was just this damn DP to HDMI adapter in one of DP of the 3070, wich is my audio cable to connect directly to the soundBarr (Q950T ), cause I have atmos passtrough problemm in the Q95A, and need DTS:X, so the tip was : one HDMI 2.1 to the Q95A for video signal, and one HDMI via DP adapter to the bar

When no plugging other HDMI cable via this DP adapter all gsync problems are gone !!
Only problem is now I can't have sound dirrectly to the bar, wich is a problem for me.

PS : The phoosno is a really nice cable, I took 10 meters, and signal is just STRONG, and cable very thin and flexible. Only problem : it heats a lot on display side, as much as ruiPro did.
The problem now is that I can't have good sound, and especially dolby atmos for home theater set via eArc on Q95A ( known bug of the TV )
Thanks you all for your help.

The problem was nor the Q95A, nor the cable in the end


----------



## Otto Pylot

@ManuBBXX Yep. Adapters can play havoc with some systems. I take it that the 3070 doesn't have an audio out HDMI port and the soundbar doesn't have two HDMI in's. There does seem to be some issues with the Q95A's, at least as posted in that Forum but yours seems to more of a device connectivity issue than anything else.

I was messaging with a couple of cable mfrs this morning and they are baffled with the heat issue. The cables' heat certifications are within the heat specifications of the HDMI 2.1 chipsets but whether they need a more robust heat sink material or not is what they are looking at. That being said, while the connectors do get hot, they still seem to work reliably, at least for the short term.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Zeskit makes good cables. I use them so you should be ok, especially at 13' as long as you have a good installation.


No luck. Problem with Audio getting out of sync persists on the TiVo even with the new, shorter, passive HDMI cable. Contacted TiVo CS and they said perhaps disabling Dolby Digital and setting the TiVo to PCM may solve the problem. 

I guess I'm relieved the problem isn't with my new Fiber Cables (already installed inside the wall and under the house) but I'd sure love to figure this out. Ordered a TiVo Mini today and it's got HDMI 2.0 built in and is a lot newer. So perhaps I can link that to the TV and use it as a conduit for the TiVo. If the Comcast X1 DVR didn't have such a horrible reputation, I'd probably just dump TiVo at this point. But I persist.. .If anyone has any troubleshooting ideas, I'm all ears!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> No luck. Problem with Audio getting out of sync persists on the TiVo even with the new, shorter, passive HDMI cable. Contacted TiVo CS and they said perhaps disabling Dolby Digital and setting the TiVo to PCM may solve the problem.
> 
> I guess I'm relieved the problem isn't with my new Fiber Cables (already installed inside the wall and under the house) but I'd sure love to figure this out. Ordered a TiVo Mini today and it's got HDMI 2.0 built in and is a lot newer. So perhaps I can link that to the TV and use it as a conduit for the TiVo. If the Comcast X1 DVR didn't have such a horrible reputation, I'd probably just dump TiVo at this point. But I persist.. .If anyone has any troubleshooting ideas, I'm all ears!


This is an interesting problem. I have Comcast X1 but without the DVR as I have no need to record anything (old man, old school ) so the X1 is just for local HDTV network broadcasts. Streaming is done via AppleTV4k's (Gen1 and Gen 2) thru receivers. Hopefully the new TiVo will be the answer.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> This is an interesting problem. I have Comcast X1 but without the DVR as I have no need to record anything (old man, old school ) so the X1 is just for local HDTV network broadcasts. Streaming is done via AppleTV4k's (Gen1 and Gen 2) thru receivers. Hopefully the new TiVo will be the answer.


No DVR? I'm old too, but how do ya live without a DVR? How do you know when new shows are ready to watch? How do you skip commercials without a DVR? 

As for the problem, so far, no glitches since I turned Dolby off. But that doesn't mean anything. I thought I had it fixed last night with the new cable, ran great for 4 hours and then 5 minutes before I'm supposed to go to bed the problem came back again and stressed me all out so I couldn't sleep.

The truly scary part is, I don't yet know if the problem is with my new TV... First time I've ever had a problem with a new Sony TV. Seems like the problem follows the TiVos when I move them to different inputs and it's done the exact same thing on two different TIVo boxes with two different HDMI cables.

Do you think I"m somewhat safe in assuming that the problem is NOT with the new TV? That would be a disaster.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> No DVR? I'm old too, but how do ya live without a DVR? How do you know when new shows are ready to watch? How do you skip commercials without a DVR?
> 
> As for the problem, so far, no glitches since I turned Dolby off. But that doesn't mean anything. I thought I had it fixed last night with the new cable, ran great for 4 hours and then 5 minutes before I'm supposed to go to bed the problem came back again and stressed me all out so I couldn't sleep.
> 
> The truly scary part is, I don't yet know if the problem is with my new TV... First time I've ever had a problem with a new Sony TV. Seems like the problem follows the TiVos when I move them to different inputs and it's done the exact same thing on two different TIVo boxes with two different HDMI cables.
> 
> Do you think I"m somewhat safe in assuming that the problem is NOT with the new TV? That would be a disaster.


I know I know. No DVR is really old school but my philosophy is that if I can't watch it (local HDTV) the first time around, chances are I won't watch it at all. Commercials for local HDTV don't bother me. With Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, AppleTV+, etc, we miss very little and just make time to watch programming.

Could be a compatibility issue with the soundbar. Do you use CEC? There are lots of issues with CEC. And if ARC is on the same chipset as CEC, and there are CEC problems, they can quite often affect ARC.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I know I know. No DVR is really old school but my philosophy is that if I can't watch it (local HDTV) the first time around, chances are I won't watch it at all. Commercials for local HDTV don't bother me. With Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, Disney+, AppleTV+, etc, we miss very little and just make time to watch programming.
> 
> Could be a compatibility issue with the soundbar. Do you use CEC? There are lots of issues with CEC. And if ARC is on the same chipset as CEC, and there are CEC problems, they can quite often affect ARC.


The Apple TV is on the ARC input and works well. CEC seems to be worrking as expected too. I don't have a sound bar, but I do have the TV hooked up to my (very old) Receiver with a Toslink cable and it seems to work well. Most of the time the Receiver is off though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> The Apple TV is on the ARC input and works well. CEC seems to be worrking as expected too. I don't have a sound bar, but I do have the TV hooked up to my (very old) Receiver with a Toslink cable and it seems to work well. Most of the time the Receiver is off though.


I don't use the smart apps on either of my tv's preferring to use the ATV4k's for all of our streaming needs. The upstairs tv (OLED) only has the Comcast X1 connected directly to it so I use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for audio being as local HDTV is 5.1 only. All other devices go thru the receiver first. Downstairs, all connected devices (including the X1 box) go thru the receiver with only video going to the tv. Both receivers are the hubs of my HTS's.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> I don't use the smart apps on either of my tv's preferring to use the ATV4k's for all of our streaming needs. The upstairs tv (OLED) only has the Comcast X1 connected directly to it so I use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for audio being as local HDTV is 5.1 only. All other devices go thru the receiver first. Downstairs, all connected devices (including the X1 box) go thru the receiver with only video going to the tv. Both receivers are the hubs of my HTS's.


One of these days, I'll get myself a new Receiver with HDMI but for now my old Sony 50ES is still sounding great to me and it would be a major hassle to swap it out. Might solve my problem with the TiVo though.... I only have Dolby 5.1 here anyway and that's good enough for me. If I wanted more speakers in here I'd have to move the couch out from the wall and my wife would probably frown on that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> One of these days, I'll get myself a new Receiver with HDMI but for now my old Sony 50ES is still sounding great to me and it would be a major hassle to swap it out. Might solve my problem with the TiVo though.... I only have Dolby 5.1 here anyway and that's good enough for me. If I wanted more speakers in here I'd have to move the couch out from the wall and my wife would probably frown on that.


The WAF is always an important consideration when upgrading electronics  .


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> The WAF is always an important consideration when upgrading electronics  .


Indeed. One reason I got the Hsu Subwoofer vs. the SVS "Cone". Did an epic review on those two about 20 years ago on here.

Yep. Still there. 19 years old now. From 2002: Hsu VTF-3 vs SVS 20-39CS : My Comparison & Review


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Indeed. One reason I got the Hsu Subwoofer vs. the SVS "Cone". Did an epic review on those two about 20 years ago on here, and the owner of SVS offered to pay David Bott $10k in advertising to ban me from the forum at the time. True story. David told me himself. Lol. They were apparently very upset at my findings.
> 
> Yep. Still there. 19 years old now. From 2002: Hsu VTF-3 vs SVS 20-39CS : My Comparison & Review


Very nice comprehensive review. Kudos to you.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Very nice comprehensive review. Kudos to you.


Thanks. Most people liked it. Todd Vodhannel... did not.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Thanks. Most people liked it. Todd Vodhannel... did not.


Oh well 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> Oh well 🤷‍♂️.


Can't win 'em all.


----------



## bareyb

Ran across this article comparing Fiber Vs. Copper HDMI cables. The results are fairly shocking to me. I had always been told that "digital is digital" and once you get a lock on the signal there's no difference from one cable to another and the picture quality will be identical. This seems to refute that. Thoughts?

Link to Article: Comparison Test; HDMI Copper vs Fiber Optic - Essence For High Res Audio

_The image on the right reveals what happens with copper, its natural impedance is causing enough data loss to wash out the solid blue background of the Play Station logo and the grey boxes on the side, losing the white streak at the bottom. On the left you see what the image actually is supposed to look like, with rich uniform color depth and the swoosh detail fully visible. This is how the original signal looks, with perfect fidelity. For those of you who spend money on a good 4K TV, you want the best picture you can get and fiber optic is the only way to get it.

This is what happens at 5 ft; you can only imagine how the data loss gets worse with distance; at 10 ft. the data loss is 50% and at 20 ft. the picture is gone completely. We are living through the transition of resolution standards from 1080p to 4K. The amount of data being transmitted is 3 times greater than the 1080p era, with the data transfer rate up from 10.2 Gbps to 18 Gbps. The new data-rich native 4K content with HDR or Dolby Vision meta-data for high dynamic range, WCG, and native hi res audio soundtrack is the highest amount of data ever. The resistance of the copper cable is too high for this amount of data to make it from the source to the display without loss. With fiber, there is no loss because light waves over glass fiber have no resistance._
'
'


----------



## Ratman

They sell HDMI products.
Distance is a problem when going to bandwidth intensive configurations.

Also.... it seems they used two monitors to "compare" in your/their example.
They do that at Best Buy to sell a product.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Ran across this article comparing Fiber Vs. Copper HDMI cables. The results are fairly shocking to me. I had always been told that "digital is digital" and once you get a lock on the signal there's no difference from one cable to another and the picture quality will be identical. This seems to refute that. Thoughts?
> 
> Link to Article: Comparison Test; HDMI Copper vs Fiber Optic - Essence For High Res Audio
> 
> _The image on the right reveals what happens with copper, its natural impedance is causing enough data loss to wash out the solid blue background of the Play Station logo and the grey boxes on the side, losing the white streak at the bottom. On the left you see what the image actually is supposed to look like, with rich uniform color depth and the swoosh detail fully visible. This is how the original signal looks, with perfect fidelity. For those of you who spend money on a good 4K TV, you want the best picture you can get and fiber optic is the only way to get it.
> 
> This is what happens at 5 ft; you can only imagine how the data loss gets worse with distance; at 10 ft. the data loss is 50% and at 20 ft. the picture is gone completely. We are living through the transition of resolution standards from 1080p to 4K. The amount of data being transmitted is 3 times greater than the 1080p era, with the data transfer rate up from 10.2 Gbps to 18 Gbps. The new data-rich native 4K content with HDR or Dolby Vision meta-data for high dynamic range, WCG, and native hi res audio soundtrack is the highest amount of data ever. The resistance of the copper cable is too high for this amount of data to make it from the source to the display without loss. With fiber, there is no loss because light waves over glass fiber have no resistance._
> '
> '
> View attachment 3165367


That's basically an ad for FIBBR cables, which are sold by High Res Audio. I have never seen pq differences at the distances they tested with any type of cable I've used on my OLED. The picture completely gone at 20' is a highly suspicious claim. If the solid copper cable is made well (quality components, proper shielding etc) at 20', and probably longer there will be no differences. You would notice sparkles, drop outs, etc before a complete picture loss.

The FIBBR cables are ISF certified, not ATC HDMI certified. ISF certification is a program that trains technicians to calibrate a/v equipment, and certifies display products for color accuracy and fidelity. HDMI certification certifies hardware (HDMI chipsets) and cables to meet the specific HDMI option sets.

The cables linked to the article are for the HDMI 2.0b option sets and the CEDIA Award is from 2017. Any Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified for HDMI 2.0 options) will perform the same.


----------



## bareyb

Wow. What a freaking liar. Jesus...


Ratman said:


> They sell HDMI products.
> Distance is a problem when going to bandwidth intensive configurations.
> 
> Also.... it seems they used two monitors to "compare" in your/their example.
> They do that at Best Buy to sell a product.


Wow. What a freakin' liar that guy is then. Jesus...


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> That's basically an ad for FIBBR cables, which are sold by High Res Audio. I have never seen pq differences at the distances they tested with any type of cable I've used on my OLED. The picture completely gone at 20' is a highly suspicious claim. If the solid copper cable is made well (quality components, proper shielding etc) at 20', and probably longer there will be no differences. You would notice sparkles, drop outs, etc before a complete picture loss.
> 
> The FIBBR cables are ISF certified, not ATC HDMI certified. ISF certification is a program that trains technicians to calibrate a/v equipment, and certifies display products for color accuracy and fidelity. HDMI certification certifies hardware (HDMI chipsets) and cables to meet the specific HDMI option sets.
> 
> The cables linked to the article are for the HDMI 2.0b option sets and the CEDIA Award is from 2017. Any Premium High Speed HDMI cable (certified for HDMI 2.0 options) will perform the same.


That's some pretty shady shat if that's what he's doing. I personally couldn't tell much difference between the 13 foot copper cable and the 25 foot Fiber one. It "seemed" like the Copper one had more Judder but hard to say. My eyes wanted to tell me that it looked a bit brighter and was more responsive with Fiber as well but that's probably a head shot. 

He's right about Copper though. It does attenuate pretty quickly over distance. As I said elsewhere, I own a Cable TV business that services Mobile Home Park systems and signal degradation over RG-6 is the bane of our existence. It's literally the biggest problem we face day to day.


----------



## Ratman

bareyb said:


> Wow. What a freaking liar. Jesus...
> 
> Wow. What a freakin' liar. Jesus...


Who?
Kinda rude with that response/remark. Twice.


----------



## bareyb

Ratman said:


> Who?
> Kinda rude with that response/remark. Twice.


The dude in the article. Not you. 

ETA: I clarified my response in the OP


----------



## Ratman

Oh. I thought some guy named jesus was mentioned in the article.


----------



## bareyb

Ratman said:


> Oh. I thought some guy named jesus was mentioned in the article.


Lol. I just thought it was extremely snake oily to perpetrate such a blatant fraud and then attach your business name to it. Guy's still in business apparently too. smh. Internet... 🤣


----------



## Ratman




----------



## bareyb

ManuBBXX said:


> VERY interested to have your feedback with a passive copper cable with that length
> 
> Having problems here too with GSYNC with active fiber cables on Q95A, and I just order the 3meters ruiPro copper passive
> Let see how it goes for us
> 
> Ohh, just sway it, and seems okay with Q90T ( but my Q95A is different as it has oneConnect ) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> FeizLink - Câble Fibre 8K HDMI 2.1 8M 4K 120Hz 8K 60Hz 48Gbps Dynamic HDR10 / eARC/HDCP 2.3 Compatible avec RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 LG C9 Samsung Q90T TCL Sony : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.fr


How'd it go with the Copper cables you tested compared to the Fiber?


----------



## bareyb

Question for the experts: It is my understanding that Hybrid Fiber Optic HDMI cables (such as the Ruipro 8k) use standard copper wire for Authentication and Handshake purposes, so no conversion to optical is going on there. Just a straight up copper wire connection like a standard HDMI cable. Is that correct?


----------



## bareyb

bareyb said:


> Question for the experts: It is my understanding that Hybrid Fiber Optic HDMI cables (such as the Ruipro 8k) use standard copper wire for Authentication and Handshake purposes, so no conversion to optical is going on there. Just a straight up copper wire connection like a standard HDMI cable. Is that correct?


Just heard back from my lady at Ruipro. Yep. Authentication and Handshake is conducted through copper same as any other cable. So no worries that the cable is messing that up by having to convert it to light and back again, etc. 



> Yes, the handshake is through copper wire, not through optical fiber. Your problem is very professional.
> Mandy H
> Best Regards
> RUIPRO SERVICE TEAM


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> Question for the experts: It is my understanding that Hybrid Fiber Optic HDMI cables (such as the Ruipro 8k) use standard copper wire for Authentication and Handshake purposes, so no conversion to optical is going on there. Just a straight up copper wire connection like a standard HDMI cable. Is that correct?


The copper wire is used for low bandwidth communication such as HDCP, EDID, ARC. The fiber core is for the high bandwidth requirements. Hence the name "hybrid fiber".


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> The copper wire is used for low bandwidth communication such as HDCP, EDID, ARC. The fiber core is for the high bandwidth requirements. Hence the name "hybrid fiber".


You're a little late to the party. My honey at Ruipro already beat you to it. 



> Yes, the handshake is through copper wire, not through optical fiber. Your problem is very professional.
> Mandy H
> Best Regards
> RUIPRO SERVICE TEAM


----------



## Otto Pylot

bareyb said:


> You're a little late to the party. My honey at Ruipro already beat you to it.


She is quick I'll hand you that  . Personally, I wish we could move forward from hybrid fiber cables and go to pure fiber only. That would eliminate some issues, like distance is with hybrid fiber now, but the connection technology and cost for home use is just not there yet so we're stuck with what I call the bridge technology between pure copper and pure fiber.


----------



## bareyb

Otto Pylot said:


> She is quick I'll hand you that  . Personally, I wish we could move forward from hybrid fiber cables and go to pure fiber only. That would eliminate some issues, like distance is with hybrid fiber now, but the connection technology and cost for home use is just not there yet so we're stuck with what I call the bridge technology between pure copper and pure fiber.


Does the technology exist to do two-way communication like handshake and authentication with a Uni-directional cable like Fiber?


----------



## Ratman

Sure.(think internet)
You think a hybrid cable is expensive now? Wait and see what a 100% optical solution will cost.


----------



## fattire

bareyb said:


> Does the technology exist to do two-way communication like handshake and authentication with a Uni-directional cable like Fiber?


I'm pretty sure the Celerity cables are 100% fiber. You need three parts: the cable itself and two connectors, one for each end.

Here are the connectors: Amazon.com: [email protected] HDR Detachable All Fiber Optic HDMI2.1 Set. 35'/10.2m, Plug & Play, 48G/HDR/ARC/CEC/HDCP2.2/EDID/HPD. Working Distance up to 1000'/305m. : Electronics

The cable I saw for this system was 130' for $190 USD. So yeah, it isn't cheap. They do claim full 8K & 4K120 support up to 1000' feet. That's definitely a very reasonable number for a true fiber-only solution.

FWIW - I heard of them through my local shop. They've used the Celerity cables in big custom installs and have said they work really well. I've got a great relationship with the guys there, this wasn't a sales job on their part. He said the biggest reason for these was the simplicity compared to a balun solution. He said they've had too many baluns go out over the years, but never one of the Celerity cables (unless it was cut/damaged).

This isn't a sales pitch. I have never owned these and don't plan on it.


----------



## bareyb

fattire said:


> I'm pretty sure the Celerity cables are 100% fiber. You need three parts: the cable itself and two connectors, one for each end.
> 
> Here are the connectors: Amazon.com: [email protected] HDR Detachable All Fiber Optic HDMI2.1 Set. 35'/10.2m, Plug & Play, 48G/HDR/ARC/CEC/HDCP2.2/EDID/HPD. Working Distance up to 1000'/305m. : Electronics
> 
> The cable I saw for this system was 130' for $190 USD. So yeah, it isn't cheap. They do claim full 8K & 4K120 support up to 1000' feet. That's definitely a very reasonable number for a true fiber-only solution.
> 
> FWIW - I heard of them through my local shop. They've used the Celerity cables in big custom installs and have said they work really well. I've got a great relationship with the guys there, this wasn't a sales job on their part. He said the biggest reason for these was the simplicity compared to a balun solution. He said they've had too many baluns go out over the years, but never one of the Celerity cables (unless it was cut/damaged).
> 
> This isn't a sales pitch. I have never owned these and don't plan on it.


I think we're looking at the future there. From everything I've read lately, copper is rapidly approaching end of life status for HDMI standards going forward for anything over 20-25 feet. I expect one day Fiber will be the common standard and it will be a lot cheaper. 

Ironically, It wasn't that long ago that people were spending hundreds of dollars if not thousands of dollars for "top of the line" RCA cables and didn't blink an eye.


----------



## Ratman

bareyb said:


> copper is rapidly approaching end of life status for HDMI standards going forward for anything over 20-25 feet.


Been that way for a few years. It has now taken it's last breath.
You can't put 5 lbs. of shat in a 1 lb. bag.


----------



## fattire

bareyb said:


> I think we're looking at the future there. From everything I've read lately, copper is rapidly approaching end of life status for HDMI standards going forward for anything over 20-25 feet.


I agree. It is expensive, but a pretty clever solution. Celerity has been making this type of cable for quite a while. I think the prices would come down if they used a more standard interface like duplex SC, LC, or even LX-5. It probably comes down to how rugged these connections are more than anything though. I know I've broken quite a few LC ends in my day.


----------



## Otto Pylot

fattire said:


> I agree. It is expensive, but a pretty clever solution. Celerity has been making this type of cable for quite a while. I think the prices would come down if they used a more standard interface like duplex SC, LC, or even LX-5. It probably comes down to how rugged these connections are more than anything though. I know I've broken quite a few LC ends in my day.


Celerity cables have been around for quite some time. Their big failing is the removable connector ends. The fiber cable alone is well made and will probably last a very long time. Their connector technology tho leaves a lot to be desired. Lots of issues over time have been reported. I prefer a more permanent connector, be it passive or active.

As @Ratman mentioned above, a pure optical fiber only for HTS connectivity is going to be very expensive, especially if the higher capacity OC types are used (OC-3, OC-12, OC-192). Just look at how your fiber internet comes into the house now. ONT connection to the gateway -> devices.


----------



## fattire

Otto Pylot said:


> Celerity cables have been around for quite some time. Their big failing is the removable connector ends. The fiber cable alone is well made and will probably last a very long time. Their connector technology tho leaves a lot to be desired. Lots of issues over time have been reported. I prefer a more permanent connector, be it passive or active.
> 
> As @Ratman mentioned above, a pure optical fiber only for HTS connectivity is going to be very expensive, especially if the higher capacity OC types are used (OC-3, OC-12, OC-192). Just look at how your fiber internet comes into the house now. ONT connection to the gateway -> devices.


Not to be pedantic but those are line specifications/rates for SONET lines _over_ fiber, not fiber cable specifications. The fiber into my house is nothing special. 

The fiber is the cheap part. An OM5 glass cable capable of 100Gb @ 150 meters is like $350. Most people on this thread need to go maybe 15 - 20 meters tops from what I can tell. A 20m cable is like $80. My longest run is almost 23 meters (Ruipro working like a champ but just for eARC). 

As you said, it’s the electronics that are hard. For what they’re doing, all the popular cables mentioned are flat out cheap despite people complaining. There are 8k/4k120 baluns out there but the cost is crazy. Last time I looked they were close to $1,500 for a single pair. They’ve probably gone up in this economy.

Yes, the cables have a stripped down feature set, but they’re doing the hardest part of what the highest end baluns can do. There’s a lot more power and computer available there as well. 

I’m lucky that I can afford to wait on a reliable longer distance solution for 2.1.


----------



## AJollyLife

Ratman said:


> "Hot swapping" is not a good practice., whether active or passive cable.
> Impatience could be costly. It only takes an extra minute to be cautious.


Could you tell me more? I hot-swap all the time - with a 3090 gpu, ruipro hdmi cable or ruipro displayport cable to a lg cx. Am I my putting my equipment at risk?


----------



## Otto Pylot

AJollyLife said:


> Could you tell me more? I hot-swap all the time - with a 3090 gpu, ruipro hdmi cable or ruipro displayport cable to a lg cx. Am I my putting my equipment at risk?


Possibly. Hybrid fiber cables are active, meaning they draw power from the HDMI ports. Hot-swapping a cable may result in release of static electricity which may affect the electrical components in either the connector end or the HDMI port. It's always best to power off your equipment before connecting/disconnecting HDMI cables. It's a simple thing to do, a good practice to follow, and may save you some major headaches let alone expense.


----------



## Navv

Received my RuiPro 8K 50ft cable a few days ago, and it's been flawless so far without any issues. Just thought I'd give a update for anyone on the edge about purchasing one.


----------



## MATA7

me2 i received last week my 85ft and it work flawless also, amazing cables


----------



## Otto Pylot

MATA7 said:


> me2 i received last week my 85ft and it work flawless also, amazing cables


Which 85' cable?


----------



## MATA7

Otto Pylot said:


> Which 85' cable?


RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 85ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps


----------



## Otto Pylot

MATA7 said:


> RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 85ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps


Thanks. 85' is impressive for an un-certified cable. Ruipro will be releasing an ATC certified cable once it finishes the certification process.


----------



## ManuBBXX

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks. 85' is impressive for an un-certified cable. Ruipro will be releasing an ATC certified cable once it finishes the certification process.


I have the Phoossno who is certified cable, 10 meters, amazing one, but would love to see this future certified RuiPro


----------



## Otto Pylot

ManuBBXX said:


> I have the Phoossno who is certified cable, 10 meters, amazing one, but would love to see this future certified RuiPro


Yep. Phoossno makes really good cables but yeah, I'd like to see Ruipro's cables get their certification. They were one of the first to start offering "8k" cables that were tested in-house but not certified, so they have a long history (at least long by HDMI time) of continually working with the customer to improve their cables and designs. I've been talking with a couple of hybrid fiber cable mfrs about the use of pure fiber only cables but that's not going to happen for a long time, if ever, for consumer-based HTS's.


----------



## squared80

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks. 85' is impressive for an un-certified cable. Ruipro will be releasing an ATC certified cable once it finishes the certification process.


I thought that was happening months ago. What's the ETA for that now?


----------



## Otto Pylot

squared80 said:


> I thought that was happening months ago. What's the ETA for that now?


Yeah. It was supposed to be around May or June but they are still working on some issues that appeared during the certification process. All I'm told is "soon". We'll see.


----------



## NemeWheel

Hello here! I thought I would create a topic for my question but I think it will be wiser to ask my question here ^^

I will soon order my new TV (Samsung QN90A) but I don’t know which HDMI 2.1 cable buy (length : 33ft/10m). I am French so I'd like to buy this on Amazon France. I spotted a RUIPRO cable : https://www.amazon.fr/RUIPRO-optiqu...hdmi+2.1&qid=1630006687&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-3 ➡ can it do the job, knowing that my goal for the moment is 1440p 120Hz without problems (I have "only" an RTX 2080 so HDMI 2.0b)

Otherwise, I also spotted this cable : https://www.amazon.fr/FeizLink-48Gb...d=1630006976&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-6&th=1&psc=1

Which one to buy?

Thanks! 

PS : I know I could buy an HDMI 2.0b cable in my situation. But to be "futureproof", I prefer to buy an HDMI 2.1 cable 😉


----------



## Otto Pylot

NemeWheel said:


> Hello here! I thought I would create a topic for my question but I think it will be wiser to ask my question here ^^
> 
> I will soon order my new TV (Samsung QN90A) but I don’t know which HDMI 2.1 cable buy (length : 33ft/10m). I am French so I'd like to buy this on Amazon France. I spotted a RUIPRO cable : https://www.amazon.fr/RUIPRO-optiqu...hdmi+2.1&qid=1630006687&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-3 ➡ can it do the job, knowing that my goal for the moment is 1440p 120Hz without problems (I have "only" an RTX 2080 so HDMI 2.0b)
> 
> Otherwise, I also spotted this cable : https://www.amazon.fr/FeizLink-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-Samsung/dp/B0923YF96B/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=ruipro+8k+hdmi+2.1&qid=1630006976&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-6&th=1&psc=1
> 
> Which one to buy?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> PS : I know I could buy an HDMI 2.0b cable in my situation. But to be "futureproof", I prefer to buy an HDMI 2.1 cable 😉


For "future proofing" the ONLY way to do that is to have easy access to your cabling. If it is in-wall, then the use of a flexible, 1.5"-2.0" conduit, with a pull string, is the way to future proof. Chances are you will be having to replace your cabling some day is you need a plan in place to safely and easily do that. Video standards will always outpace connection standards.

Feizlink is a cable company that was started by an ex-Ruipro employee. They make good cables but mostly use "off the shelf" components (unless they have created their own R&D department and are now using proprietary components). Ruipro uses mostly proprietary components.

The Ruipro cable works very well for most folks and their setups but their cables are not ATC certified yet. There are supposed to be releasing an ATC certified UHS hybrid fiber cable soon.

You can look at Phoossno (recommended) or Cable Matters for ATC certified UHS HDMI cables at your length.

No cable mfr can guarantee 100% compatibility for all setups and devices so you should not only look for the QR label of authenticity, if certification is important to you, but how well their customer support department is and their warranty response. Ruipro and Phoossno are very good at both.


----------



## ManuBBXX

Otto Pylot said:


> For "future proofing" the ONLY way to do that is to have easy access to your cabling. If it is in-wall, then the use of a flexible, 1.5"-2.0" conduit, with a pull string, is the way to future proof. Chances are you will be having to replace your cabling some day is you need a plan in place to safely and easily do that. Video standards will always outpace connection standards.
> 
> Feizlink is a cable company that was started by an ex-Ruipro employee. They make good cables but mostly use "off the shelf" components (unless they have created their own R&D department and are now using proprietary components). Ruipro uses mostly proprietary components.
> 
> The Ruipro cable works very well for most folks and their setups but their cables are not ATC certified yet. There are supposed to be releasing an ATC certified UHS hybrid fiber cable soon.
> 
> You can look at Phoossno (recommended) or Cable Matters for ATC certified UHS HDMI cables at your length.
> 
> No cable mfr can guarantee 100% compatibility for all setups and devices so you should not only look for the QR label of authenticity, if certification is important to you, but how well their customer support department is and their warranty response. Ruipro and Phoossno are very good at both.


I had all of the 3 cables : RuiPro, cableMatters (5 meters ) and Phoossno ( 10 meters )
I can confirm the Phoossno is the better by far

Never had one problem with 4K120 + VRR + HDR
Go for it


----------



## NemeWheel

Hi Otto Pylot and ManuBBXX ! I finally took your advice and I just ordered the cable from Phoossno on Amazon US. I will be delivered next Thursday. I hope everything goes well, this is the first time I order on a foreign Amazon  ... hahaha ^^

Thank you both so much  !


----------



## G-Rex

All this waiting for certified 2.1 cables, all these returns, exchanging for new versions, and lots of issues encountered over the many pages. You can spend a bit more money and get fully certified hdmi 2.1 cables now with no hassles. I amazed at the hoops many of you jump through.


----------



## StephenBishop

NemeWheel said:


> Hi Otto Pylot and ManuBBXX ! I finally took your advice and I just ordered the cable from Phoossno on Amazon US. I will be delivered next Thursday. I hope everything goes well, this is the first time I order on a foreign Amazon  ... hahaha ^^
> 
> Thank you both so much  !


Phoossno customer service is pretty good should you have any issues. Also, they have upped the warranty period to 5 years (from 2).


----------



## StephenBishop

G-Rex said:


> All this waiting for certified 2.1 cables, all these returns, exchanging for new versions, and lots of issues encountered over the many pages. You can spend a bit more money and get fully certified hdmi 2.1 cables now with no hassles. I amazed at the hoops many of you jump through.


Yup, and not a lot of money either. ATC certified 15m Phoossno UHS 2.1 hdmi cables are listed on Amazon at USD 149.99. A lot cheaper than the 15m uncertified 2.0 hdmi cables I bought some 5 years ago!


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> All this waiting for certified 2.1 cables, all these returns, exchanging for new versions, and lots of issues encountered over the many pages. You can spend a bit more money and get fully certified hdmi 2.1 cables now with no hassles. I amazed at the hoops many of you jump through.


Huh? We've been recommending ATC certified UHS HDMI cables for quite some time now. Either passive or active depending on the length. The issue with the HDMI 2.1 options sets is a complicated one so that's why there can be issues with ALL of the certified cables from time to time depending on the source/sink device, cable installation, etc. Most cables should work but there are no guarantees.

For passive cables, up to 16', Ruipro, Zeskit, and a couple others offer ATC certified UHS HDMI cables.
For active cables greater than 16', hybrid fiber cables like Phoossno and Cable Matters are the most commonly recommended ATC certified UHS HDMI cables.

The issues for overseas customers is that those cables may not be available thru their usual online ordering services or return policies, if needed, are expensive.


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> Huh? We've been recommending ATC certified UHS HDMI cables for quite some time now. Either passive or active depending on the length. The issue with the HDMI 2.1 options sets is a complicated one so that's why there can be issues with ALL of the certified cables from time to time depending on the source/sink device, cable installation, etc. Most cables should work but there are no guarantees.
> 
> For passive cables, up to 16', Ruipro, Zeskit, and a couple others offer ATC certified UHS HDMI cables.
> For active cables greater than 16', hybrid fiber cables like Phoossno and Cable Matters are the most commonly recommended ATC certified UHS HDMI cables.
> 
> The issues for overseas customers is that those cables may not be available thru their usual online ordering services or return policies, if needed, are expensive.


Yes, you certainly have. But... many have been purchasing uncertified 2.1 cables with lots of issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Yes, you certainly have. But... many have been purchasing uncertified 2.1 cables with lots of issues.


Still don't get your point. A certification is not a 100% guarantee for compatibility for lots of reasons. There are quite a few folks who have purchased well made, uncertified cables who have had no issues with the latest HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 devices. There have been reported issues with Phoossno and Cable Matters certified cables. Not very many but there have been some. Certification, as you know, just means that the cables have been tested by a standardized procedure, but there are bound to be failures or incompatibilities. And, being as the cables are electronic devices, the chipsets on the PCBA's can fail over time or during installation.

I never had any issues with the Ruipro 8k, Gen-3C cables nor did a friend who used them on his new HDMI 2.1 setup. Currently I'm using the passive UHS HDMI cables from Ruipro on one system and the passive, UHS HDMI cables on another system.

If certification is important to someone, then by all means purchase certified cables. That would be my recommendation. However, some have cable lengths that are beyond the current certification lengths so well made, uncertified cables are their only choice. That's why the recommendation is to have easy access to your cabling so changes and/or updates can be easily and safely achieved. For in-wall installations that means using an appropriate conduit.


----------



## G-Rex

Yes, I am aware of the certification process. My point is, I didn’t have to go through the pains of many generations of cables (removing, returning, ordering new versions etc…) I got certified ones from the start (though no guarantee of working perfectly) it does improve the chances of the cable having less issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> Yes, I am aware of the certification process. My point is, I didn’t have to go through the pains of many generations of cables (removing, returning, ordering new versions etc…) I got certified ones from the start (though no guarantee of working perfectly) it does improve the chances of the cable having less issues.


Agreed. As long as one can find a certified cable at the length they need.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> Agreed. As long as one can find a certified cable at the length they need.


Well said...... again.


----------



## Straykatt

I thought I would weigh in regarding my experience with ruipro 2.1 10 meter cables. Last year I had the 2.1 version 3b and from the start I was having issues. They quickly send me their 3c version and it mostly worked with random issues that only lasted a few seconds or minutes. They then sent me a newer 3c version 2 I believe. That one worked 4-6 months flawlessly on my 3090. After it started to fail I asked for my money back and they agreed and sent me their newest 3c version 3. They said it has additional fixes the other ones did not. Sadly for my needs the cord would fail over time however the company was second to none with customer support and service throughout.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I thought I would weigh in regarding my experience with ruipro 2.1 10 meter cables. Last year I had the 2.1 version 3b and from the start I was having issues. They quickly send me their 3c version and it mostly worked with random issues that only lasted a few seconds or minutes. They then sent me a newer 3c version 2 I believe. That one worked 4-6 months flawlessly on my 3090. After it started to fail I asked for my money back and they agreed and sent me their newest 3c version 3. They said it has additional fixes the other ones did not. Sadly for my needs the cord would fail over time however the company was second to none with customer support and service throughout.


Yep. There have been some quality issues with one of their contracted component suppliers. Changing suppliers will hopefully improve that situation. That’s one of the reasons it is taking them so long to get their 8k cable ATC certified. In the meantime you can look to Phoosno or Cable Matters. Both make very good hybrid fiber cables but they too have had some issues, not many tho.


----------



## alebonau

definitely sounds like we are still some ways off a reliable 10m certified cable


----------



## G-Rex

alebonau said:


> definitely sounds like we are still some ways off a reliable 10m certified cable


Nope, they are here now, but most don’t want to pay the premium. I have a 15 meter WireWorld Stellar hybrid fiber optic 2.1 cable that is working flawlessly. A friend now has it as well at the same length (at my recommendation) and he has no issues as well. Stratkatt’s post above was exactly what I was talking about few posts ago. Spend a couple hundred dollars more and no hoops to jump through, with better reliability.


----------



## alebonau

G-Rex said:


> Nope, they are here now, but most don’t want to pay the premium. I have a 15 meter WireWorld Stellar hybrid fiber optic 2.1 cable that is working flawlessly. A friend now has it as well at the same length (at my recommendation) and he has no issues as well. Stratkatt’s post above was exactly what I was talking about. Spend a couple hundred dollars more and no hoops to jump through, with better reliability.


is the wire world a certified UHS cable with the hdmi.org QR code ?


----------



## sjchmura

Just wanted to say me experience with monoprice unverified hdmi is not great. Got 6 6 foot cables with 4/6 working. 2/6 shows random artifacts . Really surprised as these are so short I figured they had to work 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## G-Rex

alebonau said:


> is the wire world a certified UHS cable with the hdmi.org QR code ?


Yes, here are two links.



https://wireworldaudio.com/download/5382/








Widescreen Review Webzine | News | Wireworld Stellar, The First Optical HDMI Cable To Receive HDMI® 2.1 Ultra High Speed Certification







www.widescreenreview.com


----------



## alebonau

G-Rex said:


> Yes, here are two links.
> 
> 
> 
> https://wireworldaudio.com/download/5382/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widescreen Review Webzine | News | Wireworld Stellar, The First Optical HDMI Cable To Receive HDMI® 2.1 Ultra High Speed Certification
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.widescreenreview.com


good to hear... maybe more folk should consider ? hopefully these pages are filed with more feedback on them when more folk check out ? 

its not something available anywhere where I am though. not even on amazon and the likes


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> good to hear... maybe more folk should consider ? hopefully these pages are filed with more feedback on them when more folk check out ?
> 
> its not something available anywhere where I am though. not even on amazon and the likes


WireWorld, Phoossno, Cable Matters and maybe one other all currently offer ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables, so the choices, at least over here are getting better. For passive ATC certified UHS HDMI cables, Zeskit, Ruipro, and Maxonar are the ones recommended, but certainly aren't the only cables offered.

Whether a cable meets one expectations and needs is still a bit of trial and error because of source/sink device variability and cable installation. Laying it out on the floor and thoroughly testing it prior to final installation is almost a requirement.


----------



## john.odonnell01

AudioQuest - ThunderBird 48 - 48Gbps 8k/10k HDMI Cable | SoundApproach

Whats up with this? Kidding me on price. Alternatives? I need 4 at 1 meter and 1 at 10 meters.


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> AudioQuest - ThunderBird 48 - 48Gbps 8k/10k HDMI Cable | SoundApproach
> 
> Whats up with this? Kidding me on price. Alternatives? I need 4 at 1 meter and 1 at 10 meters.


AQ cable, as most of us have been saying for a very long time are way overpriced for what you get. There are other cables that perform just as well for less money.

For the 1m cables, I would suggest either Zeskit Lite or Ruipro. Both are ATC certified, passive, UHS HDMI cables. The Zeskit Lite have a better bend radius than the Ruipro cables but both perform just fine for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. I use sets of each for both of my HTS's.

10m is a bit more challenging as you will need a hybrid fiber cable. For that, Phoossno is recommended as well as Cable Matters. Both are ATC certified, active, UHS HDMI cables.


----------



## StephenBishop

I had a bad experience with Fibbr recently. My 15m Fibbr 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 cable died on me and there was no response from Fibbr customer service when I made a claim under their warranty.

Also, their HDMI 2.1 offering does not appear to be ATC certified (states on the website it is but no image of the ATC certification on the website) and several other manufacturers are offering 10m ATC certified HDMI 2.1 cables at much cheaper prices (eg Cable Matters and Phoossno).

So caveat emptor with Fibbr!


----------



## ManuBBXX

StephenBishop said:


> I had a bad experience with Fibbr recently. My 15m Fibbr 18 Gbps HDMI 2.0 cable died on me and there was no response from Fibbr customer service when I made a claim under their warranty.
> 
> Also, their HDMI 2.1 offering does not appear to be ATC certified (states on the website it is but no image of the ATC certification on the website) and several other manufacturers are offering 10m ATC certified HDMI 2.1 cables at much cheaper prices (eg Cable Matters and Phoossno).
> 
> So caveat emptor with Fibbr!


I can confirm the Phoosno 10m is wonderful
Full 4K120 / VRR / HDR working here on a 3070 + QN95A 

All other cables failed at it for me ( event RuiPro and cableMatters )


----------



## Otto Pylot

FWIW, Ruipro as notified me that their new UHS HDMI cable has passed and received ATC certification for up to 15m. The product code will be a bit different from their other non-certified cables. They are in the process of building up the inventory so they should be available on Amazon in about a month. However, Amazon controls the inventory so pay attention when ordering because Amazon has a tendency to send older inventory first, so just check for the QR label on the packaging.


----------



## Postmoderndesign

NemeWheel said:


> Hello here! I thought I would create a topic for my question but I think it will be wiser to ask my question here ^^
> 
> I will soon order my new TV (Samsung QN90A) but I don’t know which HDMI 2.1 cable buy (length : 33ft/10m). I am French so I'd like to buy this on Amazon France. I spotted a RUIPRO cable : https://www.amazon.fr/RUIPRO-optiqu...hdmi+2.1&qid=1630006687&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-3 ➡ can it do the job, knowing that my goal for the moment is 1440p 120Hz without problems (I have "only" an RTX 2080 so HDMI 2.0b)
> 
> Otherwise, I also spotted this cable : https://www.amazon.fr/FeizLink-48Gbps-Dynamic-Compatible-Samsung/dp/B0923YF96B/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=ruipro+8k+hdmi+2.1&qid=1630006976&sprefix=Ruipro&sr=8-6&th=1&psc=1
> 
> Which one to buy?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> PS : I know I could buy an HDMI 2.0b cable in my situation. But to be "futureproof", I prefer to buy an HDMI 2.1 cable 😉


There is no such thing as future proof. It is best to buy what is known to currently work. Companies had quality control testing staff. Now they often leave that to customers to buy and complain when their stuff doesn't work. Just because a new standard is printed does not mean anyone know how to meet that standard. Let the buyer beware.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Postmoderndesign said:


> There is no such thing as future proof. It is best to buy what is known to currently work. Companies had quality control testing staff. Now they often leave that to customers to buy and complain when their stuff doesn't work. Just because a new standard is printed does not mean anyone know how to meet that standard. Let the buyer beware.


Agreed. I replied to him in post #2127 about that.


----------



## carminepesce

Otto Pylot said:


> Agreed. I replied to him in post #2127 about that.


I’m using Zeskit’s Maya 8K certified with very good results.


----------



## Otto Pylot

carminepesce said:


> I’m using Zeskit’s Maya 8K certified with very good results.


Yep. I used the Zeskit Maya on one system but changed to the Zeskit Lite because they are a bit more flexible. Both performed equally well. I use the Ruipro certified UHS HDMI cables on another system with equal results.


----------



## carminepesce

Otto Pylot said:


> Yep. I used the Zeskit Maya on one system but changed to the Zeskit Lite because they are a bit more flexible. Both performed equally well. I use the Ruipro certified UHS HDMI cables on another system with equal results.


I wish I would’ve known about the Lite as the Maya’s are a bit stiff!!!


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## Otto Pylot

carminepesce said:


> I wish I would’ve known about the Lite as the Maya’s are a bit stiff!!!


Zeskit just released them a couple of months ago. The Ruipro cables are stiff as well, like the Maya cables, but that's because of the wire gauge needed to meet the HDMI 2.1 option sets. As long as you can keep the cable bending to a minimum, and not place any undue strain on the HDMI ports you should be fine.


----------



## Northern_Lights

ManuBBXX said:


> I can confirm the Phoosno 10m is wonderful
> Full 4K120 / VRR / HDR working here on a 3070 + QN95A
> 
> All other cables failed at it for me ( event RuiPro and cableMatters )


Is this the one you mean? https://www.amazon.com/Certified-hybrid-optical-phoossno-HDCP2-2/dp/B091DV41QX?th=1

It's $100 on Amazon currently compared to around $160 for Ruipro (both at 10m)

Some of the reviews say it gets hot at the source end due to the voltage requirement. This is a concern, because I'm currently having to use a voltage inserter with the the HDMI 2.0 fiber cable I use from my XMC-2 processor to my projector. I get no video signal to the projector if not using the voltage inserter, and I've heard from other XMC-2 users that they're able to use the RuiPro 8k HDMI 2.1 cable without a voltage inserter.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Northern_Lights said:


> Is this the one you mean? https://www.amazon.com/Certified-hybrid-optical-phoossno-HDCP2-2/dp/B091DV41QX?th=1
> 
> It's $100 on Amazon currently compared to around $160 for Ruipro (both at 10m)
> 
> Some of the reviews say it gets hot at the source end due to the voltage requirement. This is a concern, because I'm currently having to use a voltage inserter with the the HDMI 2.0 fiber cable I use from my XMC-2 processor to my projector. I get no video signal to the projector if not using the voltage inserter, and I've heard from other XMC-2 users that they're able to use the RuiPro 8k HDMI 2.1 cable without a voltage inserter.


This is from my post in another thread about pure fiber vs hybrid fiber concerning heat.

_4. Zinc-alloy is used at the source and sink side to dissipate heat, which is important for the RTX3080/3090 cards because they can generate a lot of heat. It draws the heat from the inside to the outside. That's why the connectors can feel hot. Both cable types use the same type of construction. Heat testing is usually done at 50ºC for 10 hours. There is also a heat escape blade inside the HDMI housing as well to lower the temperature._

A voltage inserter is used when the current from the source or sink fluctuates or is not consistent enough to carry the signal down the cable. HDMI port specs are 5v/50mA minimum but some deliver a bit less or more depending on the design, but there is no way to know what the device is rated at other than the minimum spec. A voltage inserter provides a constant 5v/500mA to compensate for any fluctuations at the HDMI port. Most folks do not need a voltage inserter but it is included as a "just in case" option. 30' or so is not that far of a distance for a active cable to carry the signal without issues, certainly for the HDMI 2.0 options. The HDMI 2.1 option sets can be a bit more demanding so heat at the HDMI port is not surprising. Most cards only push about 40Gbps, not the full 48Gbps bandwidth because there are no sources that require that, yet. That being said, some device mfrs have better heat dissipation designs than others so one just takes their chances.

Phoossno makes good cables. I've tested them on my systems and they seem to work just fine. With regards to Ruipro, their new 8k hybrid fiber cable has just passed, and received, ATC certification for UHS HDMI so it should be available in about a month via Amazon. It will come with the required QR label to distinguish it from their other, non-ATC certified cables.


----------



## anne_cedric

Thanks for explanation!


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## Otto Pylot

You're welcome.


----------



## by96

I am needing some advice/input. I am currently using the older model Celerity fiber HDMI cable between a Vertex2 and and an JVC NX5. I have read on this thread that Celerity can have problems in the connectors. I don't know if that is the cause, but I am getting random video dropouts. The dropouts are generally infrequent, but did happen twice during about 40 minutes of a movie last night. I have the problem with both an ATV4K and HTPC as the sources.

I am not certain that the Celerity cable is the cause of the problems. However, the Vertex2 is also hooked up to an LG C9 without any dropouts and the only difference in the set-up is the Celerity cable to the JVC while I use Audioquest Pearl cables for all the other HDMI connections.

As much as I hate to think about it, I may need to replace the long-run HDMI cable and am looking for advice. To be safe, I probably need 80 feet, but may be able to get away with less. I chose the Celerity originally because it is powered and the Vertex2 does not supply enough power to work. Right now, I only power the Celerity at the PJ end, not at the source end (but could do that if anyone thinks it might help with dropouts). HDFury sells their own HDMI cables that work with the Vertex2, but they max out at 60 feet.

Does anyone have suggestions for a replacement cable? At this point, I would want to get a 2.1 if possible. I found the Ruipro on Amazon and it looks very good, but it is not powered. I could always buy it and test it with the Vertex2 to see if it works before installing it in the ceiling, but don't want to waste the time if it won't work or if someone has a better suggestion. I am willing to pay decently to get this fixed.

I am also curious if the Ruipro would more likely work if I added a voltage inserter.

Thank you in advance for any help.


----------



## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> I am needing some advice/input. I am currently using the older model Celerity fiber HDMI cable between a Vertex2 and and an JVC NX5. I have read on this thread that Celerity can have problems in the connectors. I don't know if that is the cause, but I am getting random video dropouts. The dropouts are generally infrequent, but did happen twice during about 40 minutes of a movie last night. I have the problem with both an ATV4K and HTPC as the sources.
> 
> I am not certain that the Celerity cable is the cause of the problems. However, the Vertex2 is also hooked up to an LG C9 without any dropouts and the only difference in the set-up is the Celerity cable to the JVC while I use Audioquest Pearl cables for all the other HDMI connections.
> 
> As much as I hate to think about it, I may need to replace the long-run HDMI cable and am looking for advice. To be safe, I probably need 80 feet, but may be able to get away with less. I chose the Celerity originally because it is powered and the Vertex2 does not supply enough power to work. Right now, I only power the Celerity at the PJ end, not at the source end (but could do that if anyone thinks it might help with dropouts). HDFury sells their own HDMI cables that work with the Vertex2, but they max out at 60 feet.
> 
> Does anyone have suggestions for a replacement cable? At this point, I would want to get a 2.1 if possible. I found the Ruipro on Amazon and it looks very good, but it is not powered. I could always buy it and test it with the Vertex2 to see if it works before installing it in the ceiling, but don't want to waste the time if it won't work or if someone has a better suggestion. I am willing to pay decently to get this fixed.
> 
> I am also curious if the Ruipro would more likely work if I added a voltage inserter.
> 
> Thank you in advance for any help.


The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable, like all hybrid fiber cables are powered in that they draw power from the source, so they are powered cables. A voltage inserter is used if the current output either fluctuates around the 50mA-55mA minimum output requirement at the HDMI port resulting in reliability issues or the current output is just not powerful enough to push the signal, without errors, down the length of the cable. Most voltage inserters are 5v/500mA. Ruipro includes a voltage inserter with their 8k (not certified) hybrid fiber cables. The voltage inserters are not a guarantee to work but are only included as a "just in case" option. Voltage inserters were initially used because some pj's seemed to have voltage issues at the HDMI port which created issues with the incoming signal (data). 80' is long for any cable.

Celerity has a long history of connector failings after a period of time. It was a good idea but reliability has been a problem. AQ cables are overpriced and overhyped but if you've already got them in place, and they work, just leave them alone.

If you want an ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable at 80' your choices are very limited. Cable Matters offers certified hybrid fiber cables but only up to 33'. Phoossno also offers certified UHS HDMI cables but you'd have to check if they offer a 30m cable. Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable in about a month (it has received certification from HDMI LA) but will only go to 15m.

Your best bet, and most reliable, would be to shorten your run but my guess is that's not going to be possible. How is your 80' run installed?


----------



## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> The Ruipro hybrid fiber cable, like all hybrid fiber cables are powered in that they draw power from the source, so they are powered cables. A voltage inserter is used if the current output either fluctuates around the 50mA-55mA minimum output requirement at the HDMI port resulting in reliability issues or the current output is just not powerful enough to push the signal, without errors, down the length of the cable. Most voltage inserters are 5v/500mA. Ruipro includes a voltage inserter with their 8k (not certified) hybrid fiber cables. The voltage inserters are not a guarantee to work but are only included as a "just in case" option. Voltage inserters were initially used because some pj's seemed to have voltage issues at the HDMI port which created issues with the incoming signal (data). 80' is long for any cable.
> 
> Celerity has a long history of connector failings after a period of time. It was a good idea but reliability has been a problem. AQ cables are overpriced and overhyped but if you've already got them in place, and they work, just leave them alone.
> 
> If you want an ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable at 80' your choices are very limited. Cable Matters offers certified hybrid fiber cables but only up to 33'. Phoossno also offers certified UHS HDMI cables but you'd have to check if they offer a 30m cable. Ruipro will be releasing their ATC certified, UHS HDMI cable in about a month (it has received certification from HDMI LA) but will only go to 15m.
> 
> Your best bet, and most reliable, would be to shorten your run but my guess is that's not going to be possible. How is your 80' run installed?


Thank you for your response. As for the AQ cables, I got Pearls (the cheapest) and only got them on good deals, but I agree AQ is overhyped. I wish I had known about Celerity before I went that route originally.

My current Celerity is 80 feet. It runs up a wall, through the attic, and down the inside of the wall at the back of the room. I know there is excess cable in the attic, so it is possible I may only need a 60 foot cable. I cannot shorten my run, but again, 80 feet may be overkill.

I don't "need" 2.1 at this point, but thought it would be best to upgrade now. What does "certified" guarantee? Why would the Ruipro hybrids not work, especially if I had the option of a voltage inserter? The Ruipro by itself may or may not work, as again, it seems the Vertex2 does not output enough power for many cables.

I do know that HDFury guarantees their cables to work with their devices, but I don't think they are only 18GB.

Update #1 - My room is 20 feet long and the walls are around 12 feet high. I guess I probably don't need anywhere near 80 feet. 60 feet should be fine, but I am worried about going with anything less.

Update #2 - Phoossno offers a certified 20 meters (65 feet), so that should work. My concern is what happens if there is not enough power from the Vertex2 for the cable to work. Is that when a voltage inserter is needed?

Update #3 - I went ahead and ordered the 20 meter Phoossno and voltage inserter and will test them out, thanks to Amazon's amazing return policy. Thanks for your help!


----------



## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> Thank you for your response. As for the AQ cables, I got Pearls (the cheapest) and only got them on good deals, but I agree AQ is overhyped. I wish I had known about Celerity before I went that route originally.
> 
> My current Celerity is 80 feet. It runs up a wall, through the attic, and down the inside of the wall at the back of the room. I know there is excess cable in the attic, so it is possible I may only need a 60 foot cable. I cannot shorten my run, but again, 80 feet may be overkill.
> 
> I don't "need" 2.1 at this point, but thought it would be best to upgrade now. What does "certified" guarantee? Why would the Ruipro hybrids not work, especially if I had the option of a voltage inserter? The Ruipro by itself may or may not work, as again, it seems the Vertex2 does not output enough power for many cables.
> 
> I do know that HDFury guarantees their cables to work with their devices, but I don't think they are only 18GB.
> 
> Update #1 - My room is 20 feet long and the walls are around 12 feet high. I guess I probably don't need anywhere near 80 feet. 60 feet should be fine, but I am worried about going with anything less.
> 
> Update #2 - Phoossno offers a certified 20 meters (65 feet), so that should work. My concern is what happens if there is not enough power from the Vertex2 for the cable to work. Is that when a voltage inserter is needed?
> 
> Update #3 - I went ahead and ordered the 20 meter Phoossno and voltage inserter and will test them out, thanks to Amazon's amazing return policy. Thanks for your help!


Certification is not a guarantee of device compatibility. It is more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by a standardized testing program designed and implemented by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The cables, be they passive or active, will come with a QR label of authenticity that you can scan for legitimacy. The idea is that if a cable comes with the QR label, regardless of mfr or cable type (passive or active), it has been tested using the same protocols by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which are located worldwide.

The Ruipro 8k cables have worked very well for a lot of folks, but, like any other long hybrid fiber cable, they have had issues with some devices. Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno etc all test their cables using some of the more recent devices (3080/3090 graphic cards, PS5, higher end LG and Sony tv's etc). However, they can't test them against
everything nor keep up with any updates that those systems have that may affect HDMI processing. Non-certified cables do work, and are tested extensively in-house by their mfrs using some of the same equipment and protocols but certification testing has tighter tolerances. Some mfrs, like Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno, Maxonar, AQ do a good job on in-house testing but nothing is guaranteed because there are just too many variables.

The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with nothing in-between. The HD Fury Vertex2's are good devices that work for a lot of folks but as the distance gets longer, and the more "interruptions" you put in the HDMI chain between source and sink (wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc) the more apt you are to have issues. And to complicate issues, hybrid fiber cables appear to start having issues with ARC/eARC at around the 15m mark.

Cable installation also play a part in connection reliability. That's why we say the ONLY way to future proof connections is to have easy access to your cabling so you can easily and safely install/upgrade your cabling and control bend radius. If your cabling is in-wall, the use of a 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit (think Smurf Tube), with a pull string is almost a requirement. How you perform the cable pull is also critical, especially with the hybrid fiber cables.

Hopefully the Phoossno cable will work but I'd try it first without the voltage inserter to see if you don't need. The voltage inserter does insert a "break" in the HDMI chain with some saying there is a slight degradation in pq but in my testing, I never saw that. But then again, I wasn't testing at 80' .

Whichever cable you get, I would definitely lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it to make sure it will meet your needs and expectations. If it does "pass" your testing, but develops issues after final installation, then that would point to an installation issue.


----------



## G-Rex

by96 said:


> Thank you for your response. As for the AQ cables, I got Pearls (the cheapest) and only got them on good deals, but I agree AQ is overhyped.


Don‘t underestimate your Pearl 48’s performance. It’s an excellent cable, that performs as well or better than last year‘s Cinnamon 18 gbps cable, but for a very reasonable price and of course has a much higher bandwidth capability. I have tested the AQ cables from the Pearl 48 all the way up to their upper end Hdmi cables. Excellent performance and reliability.


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## by96

G-Rex said:


> Don‘t underestimate your Pearl 48’s performance. It’s an excellent cable, that performs as well or better than last year‘s Cinnamon 18 gbps cable, but for a very reasonable price and of course has a much higher bandwidth capability. I have tested the AQ cables from the Pearl 48 all the way up to their upper end Hdmi cables. Excellent performance and reliability.


I don't think I have the Pearl 48GB cables. I saw those recently for sale. Mine are older, probably only 18GBs.


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> I don't think I have the Pearl 48GB cables. I saw those recently for sale. Mine are older, probably only 18GBs.


If you need 20m (60'), I don't think AQ has a passive cable at that length. Their "Cherry Cola" and "Root Beer" cables are hybrid fiber and offer 20m lengths at $1000 and $600 respectively for the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps), and are not ATC certified. The Pearl 48 cables only go up to 5m (16' 5"). Their descriptions and marketing are something to behold .


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## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> If you need 20m (60'), I don't think AQ has a passive cable at that length. Their "Cherry Cola" and "Root Beer" cables are hybrid fiber and offer 20m lengths at $1000 and $600 respectively for the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps), and are not ATC certified. The Pearl 48 cables only go up to 5m (16' 5"). Their descriptions and marketing are something to behold .


I am not considering AQ for the long run to the projector. For that, I bought the 65' certified Phoossno. It comes tomorrow and I am anxious to test it out (with and without a power inserter).


----------



## G-Rex

Otto Pylot said:


> If you need 20m (60'), I don't think AQ has a passive cable at that length. Their "Cherry Cola" and "Root Beer" cables are hybrid fiber and offer 20m lengths at $1000 and $600 respectively for the HDMI 2.0 option sets (18Gbps), and are not ATC certified. The Pearl 48 cables only go up to 5m (16' 5"). Their descriptions and marketing are something to behold .


That is correct. The longest 2.1 hdmi cable AQ has (for now) is the Forest 48 (copper). However, over a certain length it can only pass 18 Gbps.


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## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> That is correct. The longest 2.1 hdmi cable AQ has (for now) is the Forest 48 (copper). However, over a certain length it can only pass 18 Gbps.


The longest length for the Forest 48 is 5m, so at what length does it drop off to 18Gbps ( HDMI 2.0 speeds)? If they sell a 5m cable as 48Gbps for about $250, shouldn't it deliver at that length?


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## G-Rex

As far as I recall, the Forest 48 will pass 48 Gbps to 5 meters. As you are aware. there are no amplified chipsets to boost the signal beyond that distance for copper based cables to 48 Gbps.


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## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> As far as I recall, the Forest 48 will pass 48 Gbps to 5 meters. As you are aware. there are no amplified chipsets to boost the signal beyond that distance for copper based cables to 48 Gbps.


Zeskit Maya, passive, ATC certified UHS HDMI cables sell for about $35.00 for a 5m cable. AudioQuest passive, ATC certified UHS HDMI cables (at least I think they are certified) sell for about $250.00 for 5m. Both perform the same.


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## errational

Is this FiberCommand stuff snake oil or does it work? I think I saw some comments about the failure point becoming the detachable heads in this case? FIBER Optic HDMI 2.1 Cable for Best 4K 8K HDR Video / Streaming Network / Data / Surround / AV / TV / Smart Controls | IROVF PRO CABLE KIT

The idea of having a "single" cable for HDMI, ethernet, USB etc is pretty appealing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> Is this FiberCommand stuff snake oil or does it work? I think I saw some comments about the failure point becoming the detachable heads in this case? FIBER Optic HDMI 2.1 Cable for Best 4K 8K HDR Video / Streaming Network / Data / Surround / AV / TV / Smart Controls | IROVF PRO CABLE KIT
> 
> The idea of having a "single" cable for HDMI, ethernet, USB etc is pretty appealing.


Those types of cables have been around for quite some time now. The idea is interesting but if one of the cables you are using fails, you're screwed. No mention of certification and with all of the adapters/dongles used there are more chances for failures, especially if you are trying to push the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Detachable connectors have a long history of failing over time. It sounds like this particular one uses pure fiber, and not hybrid fiber. If it does, there are some technical issues associated with that. I have a post from a couple of weeks ago laying out the basics of pure fiber vs hybrid fiber.


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## errational

Otto Pylot said:


> Those types of cables have been around for quite some time now. The idea is interesting but if one of the cables you are using fails, you're screwed. No mention of certification and with all of the adapters/dongles used there are more chances for failures, especially if you are trying to push the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Detachable connectors have a long history of failing over time. It sounds like this particular one uses pure fiber, and not hybrid fiber. If it does, there are some technical issues associated with that. I have a post from a couple of weeks ago laying out the basics of pure fiber vs hybrid fiber.


Thanks for the info. For their eARC cable it looks like maybe there is a copper wire in the mix? Anyway I will probably suck it up and just buy the $150-200 HDMI 2.1 cable from Amazon for now and keep my existing cat-6 and USB2.0 cables.


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## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> Thanks for the info. For their eARC cable it looks like maybe there is a copper wire in the mix? Anyway I will probably suck it up and just buy the $150-200 HDMI 2.1 cable from Amazon for now and keep my existing cat-6 and USB2.0 cables.


eARC is possible with a pure fiber cable, but, to copy and paste from my other post:

Quite a few HDMI cable companies offer pure fiber HDMI but they are not that common nor reliable enough for home theaters, yet. The reasons are below:

1. Pure Optical requires an external power supply at the source side to deliver 150mA-160mA for the total cable.

2. Construction cost is usually higher for pure fiber because extra chipsets are needed on the PCBA's for communication. Hybrid fiber uses copper wiring for communication. However, hybrid fiber costs go up as the cable length increases due to the cost of copper wiring.

3. Fiber only will be good for distances around 30m or longer but will probably need fiber extenders. However, this will be for AV-Pro marketing used at system integration, not home use.

4. Zinc-alloy is used at the source and sink side to dissipate heat, which is important for the RTX3080/3090 cards because they can generate a lot of heat. It draws the heat from the inside to the outside. That's why the connectors can feel hot. Both cable types use the same type of construction. Heat testing is usually done at 50ºC for 10 hours. There is also a heat escape blade inside the HDMI housing as well to lower the temperature.

Hybrid fiber draws its power from the Source side (5v/50mA). Sink side (Display) has lower power requirements because it is receiving the signal to the PD (Photonics Detector) so no power draw is needed.

Pure fiber requires 150mA-160mA for the total cable length. Which means the source side needs to deliver 100mA-110mA and the sink side 50mA-55mA to make up the 150mA-160mA requirement.

5v/50mA is the minimum HDMI specification, but some devices are designed to deliver a bit more with some measuring around 150mA. However, that is not consistent across the various mfrs and chip mfrs so an external power source is necessary to guarantee the power requirement.

*Standard Hybrid Fiber*

Source 
Driver + VCSEL Receiver + PD - 4 Optical Fibers for TMDS
Display
7 Copper Wires for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID

*Standard Pure Fiber Only*

Source
Driver + VCSEL Receiver + PD - 4 Optical Fibers for TMDS
Display
DDC Converter Chip, DDC Receiving + PD - 4 Optical Fibers for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID/HDMI 2.1 options

For those interested:
PD: Photonics Detector
VCSEL: (Vertical-Cavity Surface-Emitter Laser) - a semiconductor laser diode that emits light from its surface rather than its edge.
DDC: Display Data Channel - a communication channel used in HDMI to implement the E-DDC channel (Enhanced-DDC).
TMDS: Transition-Minimized Differential Signaling - for transmitting high speed serial data.

IMO, the cable you link to is more hype than actually a workable, reliable HDMI cable.


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## john.odonnell01

I need 4 HDMI cables for connecting at my AV rack. I think I will go with AQ pearl 48s for this part. 

AudioQuest Pearl 48 (1.5 meters/5 feet) Ultra High Speed 48Gbps HDMI cable with Ethernet at Crutchfield 

And from rack to Display I am hearing good things about the following:

Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) (cablematters.com) 

Any feedback? I know that there may be some less expensive. But with a $40k setup I dont want to cheap out, nor do I think I need $1000 cables. 

Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> I need 4 HDMI cables for connecting at my AV rack. I think I will go with AQ pearl 48s for this part.
> 
> AudioQuest Pearl 48 (1.5 meters/5 feet) Ultra High Speed 48Gbps HDMI cable with Ethernet at Crutchfield
> 
> And from rack to Display I am hearing good things about the following:
> 
> Certified Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable (Fiber Active Optical 8K HDMI Cable) (cablematters.com)
> 
> Any feedback? I know that there may be some less expensive. But with a $40k setup I dont want to cheap out, nor do I think I need $1000 cables.
> 
> Thanks.


To connect the rack components, I would suggest using the Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. Even tho they are passive, they are flexible and will perform as well as the AQ Pearl cables for less money (or the Pearl cables will perform as well as the Zeskit cables). I use 4 of the 1.5m Zeskit Lite cables on one of my systems. I'm assuming that these particular Pearl cables are ATC certified but there is nothing in the link that indicates that that I can see. Overpriced and overhyped. The cables are fire rated (CL3) but that has no effect on performance other than the fact that the cable jacket may be a bit stiff due to the jacket requirement for CL3. Long grain copper? Really?

Cable Matters makes a good cable and the one you linked to is ATC certified.


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## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> To connect the rack components, I would suggest using the Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. Even tho they are passive, they are flexible and will perform as well as the AQ Pearl cables for less money (or the Pearl cables will perform as well as the Zeskit cables). I use 4 of the 1.5m Zeskit Lite cables on one of my systems. I'm assuming that these particular Pearl cables are ATC certified but there is nothing in the link that indicates that that I can see. Overpriced and overhyped. The cables are fire rated (CL3) but that has no effect on performance other than the fact that the cable jacket may be a bit stiff due to the jacket requirement for CL3. Long grain copper? Really?
> 
> Cable Matters makes a good cable and the one you linked to is ATC certified.


The Pearl 48GB cables are ATC certified. The label is on the actual boxes.


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> The Pearl 48GB cables are ATC certified. The label is on the actual boxes.


Ok. That's good to know. That is where the label is supposed to be but I didn't see it stated anywhere in the marketing propaganda, which is a bit surprising. Still, they are way overpriced for only 1.5m cables as compared to the certified Zeskit Lite cables.


----------



## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> Ok. That's good to know. That is where the label is supposed to be but I didn't see it stated anywhere in the marketing propaganda, which is a bit surprising. Still, they are way overpriced for only 1.5m cables as compared to the certified Zeskit Lite cables.


Wow. I just checked out the prices of Zeskit Lite. You are right!


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> Wow. I just checked out the prices of Zeskit Lite. You are right!


Surprising isn't it. Don't get me wrong, AQ does make good cables but their prices are way too high and they justify that with pushing "long grain copper" and other marketing hype. Certified cables have tight specifications that must be met to get the HDMI LA certification. Exceeding those specifications are fine but the performance to the end-use will be the same so why overpay for that.


----------



## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> Surprising isn't it. Don't get me wrong, AQ does make good cables but their prices are way too high and they justify that with pushing "long grain copper" and other marketing hype. Certified cables have tight specifications that must be met to get the HDMI LA certification. Exceeding those specifications are fine but the performance to the end-use will be the same so why overpay for that.


I just placed an order for eight of the Zeskit cables for less than twice the cost of two AQ cables.


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> I just placed an order for eight of the Zeskit cables for less than twice the cost of two AQ cables.


Let us know how they work. They should be just fine. What are the cable lengths and did you order the Lite ones?


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## by96

I ordered 2 x 3-foot and 1 x 5-foot of the Zeskit Lite and 4 x 6.5 foot of the Zeskit Maya, which are also certified. The longest Lite is 5 feet and I needed some a little longer.

Are the Maya ok?


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## mogrub

I need to upgrade the 40' HDMI long run from my Yamaha RX-A3080 receiver to a JVC RS540 projector. My almost 10 year old cable had been able to pass Roku Ultra and Panasonic UB820 4K signals on that line, but a newly arrived Oppo 203 requires more headroom. Based on the excellent discussion here, I'm leaning towards the certified ultra high speed fiber optic Cable Matters over the Phoossno. One reason is the greater incidence of users reporting hot heat sinks on the Phoossno product. Advice welcomed on other options that should be on the short list. Thanks guys. 👍


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> I ordered 2 x 3-foot and 1 x 5-foot of the Zeskit Lite and 4 x 6.5 foot of the Zeskit Maya, which are also certified. The longest Lite is 5 feet and I needed some a little longer.
> 
> Are the Maya ok?


The Maya cables will perform the same only they are a bit thicker so the bend radius is not quite as good as the Lite. I've used the Maya cables as well and they performed flawlessly. I was just offered to test the Lite cables and I really liked them.


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## by96

mogrub said:


> I need to upgrade the 40' HDMI long run from my Yamaha RX-A3080 receiver to a JVC RS540 projector. My almost 10 year old cable had been able to pass Roku Ultra and Panasonic UB820 4K signals on that line, but a newly arrived Oppo 203 requires more headroom. Based on the excellent discussion here, I'm leaning towards the certified ultra high speed fiber optic Cable Matters over the Phoossno. One reason is the greater incidence of users reporting hot heat sinks on the Phoossno product. Advice welcomed on other options that should be on the short list. Thanks guys.


I just bought a Phoossno. What complaints are you referring to? I need 60+ feet, so it was one of the certified few. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Otto Pylot

mogrub said:


> I need to upgrade the 40' HDMI long run from my Yamaha RX-A3080 receiver to a JVC RS540 projector. My almost 10 year old cable had been able to pass Roku Ultra and Panasonic UB820 4K signals on that line, but a newly arrived Oppo 203 requires more headroom. Based on the excellent discussion here, I'm leaning towards the certified ultra high speed fiber optic Cable Matters over the Phoossno. One reason is the greater incidence of users reporting hot heat sinks on the Phoossno product. Advice welcomed on other options that should be on the short list. Thanks guys. 👍


I prefer the Phoossno but Cable Matters will work just as well. As far as the heat goes, that comes from the source device if you start pushing up to 40 Gbps (HDMI 2.1). The connector end should feel a little warm to hot because it is designed to transfer the heat from the inside of the connector to the outside of the connector. They use a high quality zinc alloy for heat dissipation.


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## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> I just bought a Phoossno. What complaints are you referring to? I need 60+ feet, so it was one of the certified few.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There were some reports of cables from Ruipro (not certified), Phoossno, and even Cable Matters that some of their cable connectors were getting hot when connected to an HDMI 2.1 source device. The heat was from the HDMI port so better heat dissipation was needed for the connector.


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## by96

Otto Pylot said:


> There were some reports of cables from Ruipro (not certified), Phoossno, and even Cable Matters that some of their cable connectors were getting hot when connected to an HDMI 2.1 source device. The heat was from the HDMI port so better heat dissipation was needed for the connector.


I just read something about that on an Amazon review for the Phoosno. Apparently the company told the user the amount of heat was normal. (Plus, I won’t be using a 2.1 source directly any time soon.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mogrub

Otto Pylot said:


> I prefer the Phoossno but Cable Matters will work just as well. As far as the heat goes, that comes from the source device if you start pushing up to 40 Gbps (HDMI 2.1). The connector end should feel a little warm to hot because it is designed to transfer the heat from the inside of the connector to the outside of the connector. They use a high quality zinc alloy for heat dissipation.


Thanks Otto. I had done an OCD dive before on the thread before posting, so I knew about the source of the heat and the zinc doing to the work to dissipate it out. All other things being equal (even though they never are), I'd lean towards cables that didn't get as warm as those have been reported to get. I'm sure it is no big deal at all, but if everything else was equal, I'd take cooler cables. I've read a bunch of your posts already so I should remember this, but what's the short story on why you would prefer the Phoossno over the Cable Matters right now -- is that more durability focused or performance focused, or what? Thanks again. And your signature is the best. 👍


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## Otto Pylot

mogrub said:


> Thanks Otto. I had done an OCD dive before on the thread before posting, so I knew about the source of the heat and the zinc doing to the work to dissipate it out. All other things being equal (even though they never are), I'd lean towards cables that didn't get as warm as those have been reported to get. I'm sure it is no big deal at all, but if everything else was equal, I'd take cooler cables. I've read a bunch of your posts already so I should remember this, but what's the short story on why you would prefer the Phoossno over the Cable Matters right now -- is that more durability focused or performance focused, or what? Thanks again. And your signature is the best. 👍


In my testing of Ruipro (all of the iterations), Phoossno, and Zeskit, I have never experienced an overheated connector (warm but not too hot to touch) on either of my HTS's. However, I'm not a gamer so HDMI 2.0b is all I need to push, so far, and my runs are <10'. I've seen the breakdown of Ruipro, Zeskit, and Phoossno cables but not Cable Matters. So given my experience with the other three, close inspection of the build, I prefer to stick with those. But, as I have said before, Cable Matters makes good cables and lots of folks are happy with them so you probably couldn't go wrong with one. As a side note, Ruipro has received ATC certification for their hybrid fiber cables so they should be available in about month once production is ramped up. They will be labeled as Ruipro 8k Gen3/C UHS.


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## Ellebob

Mogrub since you do not need 2.1 you could add a signal restorer to your cable if that is a easier than replacing the cable. If your current cable is active it won't work but should be fine at 40ft with a passive cable


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## mogrub

Ellebob said:


> Mogrub since you do not need 2.1 you could add a signal restorer to your cable if that is a easier than replacing the cable. If your current cable is active it won't work but should be fine at 40ft with a passive cable


Thanks Ellebob. The cable now in place is an active Monoprice Redmere.


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## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Mogrub since you do not need 2.1 you could add a signal restorer to your cable if that is a easier than replacing the cable. If your current cable is active it won't work but should be fine at 40ft with a passive cable


Signal restorer? Do you mean an active extender?


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## Otto Pylot

mogrub said:


> Thanks Ellebob. The cable now in place is an active Monoprice Redmere.


Redmere is the old technology used in active, copper only HDMI cables. Redmere was "absorbed" by Spectra so if you are wanting to use active, copper only HDMI cables, then you should look for, or upgrade, your cabling to ones with the Spectra 7 chipsets (HT8181) as they can handle the newer video formats much better and are more reliable.


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## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> To connect the rack components, I would suggest using the Zeskit Lite ATC certified UHS HDMI cables. Even tho they are passive, they are flexible and will perform as well as the AQ Pearl cables for less money (or the Pearl cables will perform as well as the Zeskit cables). I use 4 of the 1.5m Zeskit Lite cables on one of my systems. I'm assuming that these particular Pearl cables are ATC certified but there is nothing in the link that indicates that that I can see. Overpriced and overhyped. The cables are fire rated (CL3) but that has no effect on performance other than the fact that the cable jacket may be a bit stiff due to the jacket requirement for CL3. Long grain copper? Really?
> 
> Cable Matters makes a good cable and the one you linked to is ATC certified.


Thanks Otto


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## Ellebob

No I was referring to devices like the Ethereal GA-1, GA-2. Their marketing term is gigabit accelerator. In a nutshell these devices can do different things. There are three main problems with HDMI signaling at longer cable lengths. One is impedance which causes voltage drop and can be corrected by raising the voltage with a device some call them voltage injectors. Two is capacitance and probably the biggest problem at longer lengths which causes increased rise time altering the shape of the wave making it unrecognizable by the receiving device. This the can also be corrected with a device, some call them equalizers. The third problem is timing, there are a bunch of wires wound inside an HDMI cable and sometimes one or more of the wires are longer/shorter causing the signals not to arrive at the same time on the receiving end. Can also be corrected.
Some of these correction devices no matter what they are called can be expensive but they often solve problems and might less expensive than running a new cable if you have to open a wall or ceiling.
I am a big advocate of conduit in situations where pulling a new cable would be difficult in the future.
I am not a big fan of Cat6 extenders because ALL of them use some form of compression for signals over 10.2gb causing some degration of video. Sometimes they are a necessary evil though. They use terms like virtually lossless or some other marketing term. If you are using compression thete is some amount of degration of signal, some less noticeable than others. 
Fiber optic extenders are great for long distances but big money. Many of these will come down in prices over time.
Going up to 48gbs is a problem for copper and longer lengths.


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## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> No I was referring to devices like the Ethereal GA-1, GA-2. Their marketing term is gigabit accelerator. In a nutshell these devices can do different things. There are three main problems with HDMI signaling at longer cable lengths. One is impedance which causes voltage drop and can be corrected by raising the voltage with a device some call them voltage injectors. Two is capacitance and probably the biggest problem at longer lengths which causes increased rise time altering the shape of the wave making it unrecognizable by the receiving device. This the can also be corrected with a device, some call them equalizers. The third problem is timing, there are a bunch of wires wound inside an HDMI cable and sometimes one or more of the wires are longer/shorter causing the signals not to arrive at the same time on the receiving end. Can also be corrected.
> Some of these correction devices no matter what they are called can be expensive but they often solve problems and might less expensive than running a new cable if you have to open a wall or ceiling.
> I am a big advocate of conduit in situations where pulling a new cable would be difficult in the future.
> I am not a big fan of Cat6 extenders because ALL of them use some form of compression for signals over 10.2gb causing some degration of video. Sometimes they are a necessary evil though. They use terms like virtually lossless or some other marketing term. If you are using compression thete is some amount of degration of signal, some less noticeable than others.
> Fiber optic extenders are great for long distances but big money. Many of these will come down in prices over time.
> Going up to 48gbs is a problem for copper and longer lengths.


Ah yes. Active cables, in theory, have chipsets that do what you describe: constant current, equalize, and timing. In the "old days", connecting an active extender onto a copper cable worked in most cases, but that was before the higher video standards, eARC, and what not. That's one of the reasons that active cables came into being. Now that video standards are being pushed to the current limits, hybrid fiber cables are where it's at. But those too have limitations, distance being one. 

In theory, pure fiber has "unlimited" distance issues but when you try to utilize pure fiber for HDMI, there are issues, technology-wise and cost-wise. I have a post elsewhere about the pros and cons of using pure fiber for HDMI instead of hybrid fiber. Copper is dead for long runs, unless the wire gauge is thick, but with that you lose flexibility, which makes installation a real pain, and you run the risk of increasing strain on the HDMI port.

HDBT has long been an option when used in conjunction with solid copper core, UTP CAT-6 cabling, non-CCA/CCS and not the typical CAT-6 ethernet cabling. However, even with the active units, compression is still there as well as other issues. There was supposed to be an upgraded chipset (Valens VS3000) that offered uncompressed video for HDMI 2.0 but I don't know if they have been incorporated into the new HDBT units.

I'm with ya on the use of flexible conduit for long runs if one doesn't have easy access to their cabling. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so when planning a home theater system it's always best to figure out you are going to replace and/or upgrade your cabling when the time comes, and it will. Installing conduit after-the-fact is a costly venture that most people do not want to do for obvious reasons. It can be installed in a wall rather easily by an experienced electrician provided it's not a 2-story home or a load bearing wall. You don't really need it in the attic space if you can get to the cable so it's just the wall-space that's the problem.


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## Jordyn11

Just received the Phoossno 15m certified cable, connecting my 3090 to a LG C9 at 4k120hz. Connected ok and have a picture however unfortunately have been getting intermittent drop outs when the picture goes black but the sound remains, like it is dropping the handshake. This has been happening on the desktop as well as in games, Have tried reinstalling drivers and playing with various settings to no avail thus far. Interesting was even dropping out when set to 4k60 so I assume this cable just isn't playing nice with my devices and will need to go back (which is annoying as it took a month to arrive here in Australia.) Any other tips or tricks I can try?


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Just received the Phoossno 15m certified cable, connecting my 3090 to a LG C9 at 4k120hz. Connected ok and have a picture however unfortunately have been getting intermittent drop outs when the picture goes black but the sound remains, like it is dropping the handshake. This has been happening on the desktop as well as in games, Have tried reinstalling drivers and playing with various settings to no avail thus far. Interesting was even dropping out when set to 4k60 so I assume this cable just isn't playing nice with my devices and will need to go back (which is annoying as it took a month to arrive here in Australia.) Any other tips or tricks I can try?


Very unfortunate!

Does your 3090 work okay with the C9 at 4K120hz with a shorter- say 2m or 3m- cable assuming you are able to move your PC closer to the TV to test?


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## Jordyn11

StephenBishop said:


> Very unfortunate!
> 
> Does your 3090 work okay with the C9 at 4K120hz with a shorter- say 2m or 3m- cable assuming you are able to move your PC closer to the TV to test?


Yet to try that due to the logistics involved but am looking to do so I can confirm.


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Yet to try that due to the logistics involved but am looking to do so I can confirm.


Major PITA but likely the best way to know for sure that it is a cable issue. If it is a cable issue suggest you contact Phoossno CS directly (via Amazon). They have hitherto been very good and responsive and had better address your issue satisfactorily and fast if they are going to be credible in the marketplace.


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## Ellebob

The problem with many active cables icompared to using a signal restorer is if there is a problem with the chipset in the cable the whole cable has to be replaced. If the cable can easily be replaced this is not an issue. 

Besides flexibility issues not all thicker cables perform better. In theory using a thicker cable will correct impedance and capacitance problems. However, the problem with thicker cables is physical space when trying to solder or connect all those wires onto the HDMI connector. That's why when testing HDMI cables we see some 23 and 24 guage cables out perform the 22 guage cables. 22 guage is about the limit that one can fit onto the HDMI connector but not all cables and their connections are equal. 
With a signal restorer and a good quality passive cable we can get to about 70 feet up to 24gbs and it will be about half that 35ft for 48gbs. (Some products not available yet). For most a hybrid cable is a better solution and significantly less expensive. For those that don't have conduit or can't run it then this is a possible solution.
In my experience I find electricians do some of the biggest disservice to homeowners and AV installations. In fact I just had this discussion at a trade school with the instructor going over requirements for AV needs. They typically are very "old school" in what they think AV requires. They want to just run coax and possibly Cat6. If you don't specify conduit size they will typically assume 3/4" or if you are lucky 1".
I mean no disrespect to any electrians but if you are seeing this on AVS and this particular thread you are probably not the typical electrician we run into in the field.


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## Jordyn11

StephenBishop said:


> Major PITA but likely the best way to know for sure that it is a cable issue. If it is a cable issue suggest you contact Phoossno CS directly (via Amazon). They have hitherto been very good and responsive and had better address your issue satisfactorily and fast if they are going to be credible in the marketplace.


You are not wrong about been a PITA, but testing with another shorter cable (2m) showed none of the same issues so pretty definitively the 15m cable unfortunately. Sadface. Thanks for the advice re cust care though. Will reach out to them first before requesting a refund through Amazon.


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## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> I mean no disrespect to any electrians but if you are seeing this on AVS and this particular thread you are probably not the typical electrician we run into in the field.


Yep. When I had conduit installed I hired an electrician who had experience in LV installs, told him what kind and size of conduit I wanted, and supplied them with the solid copper core CAT-6 cable. They left decent service loops in the junction boxes and I terminated myself. Active extenders or HDBT is certainly an option if one doesn't want to run hybrid fiber but that too can have issues. It's too bad that the HDMI folks didn't, or haven't, worked more closely with the cable and device mfrs to work out the issues of distance and the higher video standards.


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## Otto Pylot

Jordyn11 said:


> You are not wrong about been a PITA, but testing with another shorter cable (2m) showed none of the same issues so pretty definitively the 15m cable unfortunately. Sadface. Thanks for the advice re cust care though. Will reach out to them first before requesting a refund through Amazon.


No cable mfr can promise 100% compatibility at all lengths with all the possible devices out there. Even certified cables, which do seem to have a better track record than non-certified, will not perform as expected from time to time. That's why in addition to looking for certified cables it pays to check out how well their customer care department takes care of its customers. Phoossno, Zeskit, and Ruipro all have very good customer care. Cable Matters probably does as well but I have had no interactions with them so I can't say.

This just re-enforces the fact that conduit is almost a requirement if at all possible. Other than that, all you can do is lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. If it meets your needs and expectations and then begins to fail after installation, something probably happened during the installation (too sharp of a bend, damaged the connector end, etc). 

Is your cable run a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between?


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## Jordyn11

Yes it's a pretty straight forward use case just running around the perimeter of my apartment lounge with a single cable run source to sink and with no sharp bends involved. I cant think of anything that I did during installation that might of damaged but it certainly isn't performing to expectation. Being in Australia the choices are limited through Amazon but after following this thread I am confident in Phoossno. The biggest issue (other than the lack of choice) is the time it takes to arrive from the states. Anyways thanks for the advice.


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## Otto Pylot

Jordyn11 said:


> Yes it's a pretty straight forward use case just running around the perimeter of my apartment lounge with a single cable run source to sink and with no sharp bends involved. I cant think of anything that I did during installation that might of damaged but it certainly isn't performing to expectation. Being in Australia the choices are limited through Amazon but after following this thread I am confident in Phoossno. The biggest issue (other than the lack of choice) is the time it takes to arrive from the states. Anyways thanks for the advice.


Sounds like your cable installation is fine. Do you feel any heat at the 3090 hdmi port? Warm is fine but is it almost too hot to touch? The Phoossno cables have a really good heat dissipation design but I don't know if the 3090 has a heat dissipation blade inside the HDMI port or not. The cables are tested at 50ºC for 10 hours so it's doubtful that heat generation is the problem. See what Phoossno support has to say.


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## Jordyn11

There isn't actually a lot of heat at the 3090 port. I would actually say barely warm at all, certainly not too hot to touch. As you say I have fired off a message to Phoossno so will see what they come back with.


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## Otto Pylot

Jordyn11 said:


> There isn't actually a lot of heat at the 3090 port. I would actually say barely warm at all, certainly not too hot to touch. As you say I have fired off a message to Phoossno so will see what they come back with.


That's good then that there is no heat. Some folks who had cable issues were blaming the issues on the cable because they felt the connectors were getting too hot. It may have been a combination of poor heat dissipation on the cable and HDMI port side, but that seems to have been remedied now with the new generation of cables and devices.

Do post back on what Phoossno says.


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## Jordyn11

Well have to say very impressed with the customer service so far as just got a response back which I wasn't expecting until after the weekend.

"We are sorry for bring trouble to you, this situation you description is correct, RTX3090 with LG C9 not success at [email protected], but works at [email protected], the reason is when go [email protected] timing not synchronize, cause handshake fail. HDMI 2.1 is FRL model, it is not like HDMI 2.1 it is TMDS+ Clock, there is a fixed clock channel to handle different frequency. That is why it is easy cause EDID handshake fail when go [email protected] or [email protected] .

Actually, we have solved LG C9 compatibility issue at next generation, due to we keep a lot of stock at Amazon, so I can not replace from Amazon. Is that possible to replace a new one , send to you from China directly?"

Something to note:
The product page actually says that it is compatible with 3090 to LG C9 but they are working on 3090 to CX:

Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C9/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LG B9 compatibility is on process of updating.
However it seems that the product description may have been updated in advance of clearing out the existing stock, so something to keep in mind. 

Regardless in my case it seems I will get a next gen replacement shipped out from China when we work through the logistics so will post back with further info when it comes to hand.


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Well have to say very impressed with the customer service so far as just got a response back which I wasn't expecting until after the weekend.
> 
> "We are sorry for bring trouble to you, this situation you description is correct, RTX3090 with LG C9 not success at [email protected], but works at [email protected], the reason is when go [email protected] timing not synchronize, cause handshake fail. HDMI 2.1 is FRL model, it is not like HDMI 2.1 it is TMDS+ Clock, there is a fixed clock channel to handle different frequency. That is why it is easy cause EDID handshake fail when go [email protected] or [email protected] .
> 
> Actually, we have solved LG C9 compatibility issue at next generation, due to we keep a lot of stock at Amazon, so I can not replace from Amazon. Is that possible to replace a new one , send to you from China directly?"
> 
> Something to note:
> The product page actually says that it is compatible with 3090 to LG C9 but they are working on 3090 to CX:
> 
> Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C9/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LG B9 compatibility is on process of updating.
> However it seems that the product description may have been updated in advance of clearing out the existing stock, so something to keep in mind.
> 
> Regardless in my case it seems I will get a next gen replacement shipped out from China when we work through the logistics so will post back with further info when it comes to hand.


This is encouraging. Great customer service - prompt, honest and problem solving. Hope the updated version solves your issue.


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Well have to say very impressed with the customer service so far as just got a response back which I wasn't expecting until after the weekend.
> 
> "We are sorry for bring trouble to you, this situation you description is correct, RTX3090 with LG C9 not success at [email protected], but works at [email protected], the reason is when go [email protected] timing not synchronize, cause handshake fail. HDMI 2.1 is FRL model, it is not like HDMI 2.1 it is TMDS+ Clock, there is a fixed clock channel to handle different frequency. That is why it is easy cause EDID handshake fail when go [email protected] or [email protected] .
> 
> Actually, we have solved LG C9 compatibility issue at next generation, due to we keep a lot of stock at Amazon, so I can not replace from Amazon. Is that possible to replace a new one , send to you from China directly?"
> 
> Something to note:
> The product page actually says that it is compatible with 3090 to LG C9 but they are working on 3090 to CX:
> 
> Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C9/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LG B9 compatibility is on process of updating.
> However it seems that the product description may have been updated in advance of clearing out the existing stock, so something to keep in mind.
> 
> Regardless in my case it seems I will get a next gen replacement shipped out from China when we work through the logistics so will post back with further info when it comes to hand.


The product page seems to have been updated. Now reads:

Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C1/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LGC9 B9 compatibility is on process of updating.


----------



## Jordyn11

StephenBishop said:


> The product page seems to have been updated. Now reads:
> 
> Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C1/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LGC9 B9 compatibility is on process of updating.


Ah that's good, I did give them this feedback so they must have adjusted it. Further update is my replacement might be delayed due to the Mid Autumn festival but still can't complain with their response and support to date.


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## StephenBishop

Jordyn11 said:


> Ah that's good, I did give them this feedback so they must have adjusted it. Further update is my replacement might be delayed due to the Mid Autumn festival but still can't complain with their response and support to date.


Do watch your Amazon return window for refunds. Phoossno should refund you if the replacement does not work and the Amazon refund window has closed.


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## Jordyn11

StephenBishop said:


> Do watch your Amazon return window for refunds. Phoossno should refund you if the replacement does not work and the Amazon refund window has closed.


Good call. I actually said as much in my response to them about the holiday. Fingers crossed it all works out.


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## Otto Pylot

Jordyn11 said:


> Well have to say very impressed with the customer service so far as just got a response back which I wasn't expecting until after the weekend.
> 
> "We are sorry for bring trouble to you, this situation you description is correct, RTX3090 with LG C9 not success at [email protected], but works at [email protected], the reason is when go [email protected] timing not synchronize, cause handshake fail. HDMI 2.1 is FRL model, it is not like HDMI 2.1 it is TMDS+ Clock, there is a fixed clock channel to handle different frequency. That is why it is easy cause EDID handshake fail when go [email protected] or [email protected] .
> 
> Actually, we have solved LG C9 compatibility issue at next generation, due to we keep a lot of stock at Amazon, so I can not replace from Amazon. Is that possible to replace a new one , send to you from China directly?"
> 
> Something to note:
> The product page actually says that it is compatible with 3090 to LG C9 but they are working on 3090 to CX:
> 
> Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C9/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LG B9 compatibility is on process of updating.
> However it seems that the product description may have been updated in advance of clearing out the existing stock, so something to keep in mind.
> 
> Regardless in my case it seems I will get a next gen replacement shipped out from China when we work through the logistics so will post back with further info when it comes to hand.


That's the response that I would expect from Phoossno. They are responsive to the customer, much like Ruipro is. Their comment about Amazon is also spot on. Amazon controls the inventory once a mfr ships cables to them. You can not request a specific cable from them and that was one of the issues that Ruipro had when folks would return cables asking for the latest iteration. Amazon will just grab what ever is on the shelf, even if they have a more current version, until their stock of older cables is depleted and all they have is the newest one. It can be a pain, but it's always best to work directly with the mfr and just return to Amazon for a refund if you want to get the latest iteration.


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## normandia

Can anyone discuss sound quality on eARC with these cables. Tried an inexpensive Vanco1 and while the picture was wonderful, the sound was often tinny and thin when using TV apps (not for movies as TV sends digital signal to processor with proper setting chosen). The Zeskit solid core might be better. I usually overpay for quality, but in this case I didn't as I was just testing the waters.


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## Otto Pylot

normandia said:


> Can anyone discuss sound quality on eARC with these cables. Tried an inexpensive Vanco1 and while the picture was wonderful, the sound was often tinny and thin when using TV apps (not for movies as TV sends digital signal to processor with proper setting chosen). The Zeskit solid core might be better. I usually overpay for quality, but in this case I didn't as I was just testing the waters.


Price does not always equate to quality/reliability. If you can receive eARC, then you are getting what is being sent, depending on how your receiver is set to process the signal. eARC from the built-in apps can be touch and go.


----------



## errational

Am I asking for trouble buying one of these Cabledeconn ones? https://www.amazon.ca/CABLEDECONN-O...8k+hdmi+cable+50ft&qid=1632149438&sr=8-3&th=1

Going from 3080 -> C1.

Cables are expensive and limited up here :/


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> Am I asking for trouble buying one of these Cabledeconn ones? https://www.amazon.ca/CABLEDECONN-Optical-Supports-HDCP2-2-Projectors/dp/B00VBOCWI2/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=8k+hdmi+cable+50ft&qid=1632149438&sr=8-3&th=1
> 
> Going from 3080 -> C1.
> 
> Cables are expensive and limited up here :/


From the product description:_ Important Notes:It can not support to work between RTX 3070,3080,3090 and LG C9 OLED TV to output HDR [email protected]_

That makes no mention of the C1 but should give you reason to pause. If you really need 20m (60' or so), and want/need an ATC certified UHS hybrid fiber cable then I'd look elsewhere. Cable Matters only goes to 33' so you might want to look at Phoossno as I think they offer a certified cable at that length. How will the cable be installed and will this be a single cable, source to sink run?


----------



## errational

Otto Pylot said:


> From the product description:_ Important Notes:It can not support to work between RTX 3070,3080,3090 and LG C9 OLED TV to output HDR [email protected]_
> 
> That makes no mention of the C1 but should give you reason to pause. If you really need 20m (60' or so), and want/need an ATC certified UHS hybrid fiber cable then I'd look elsewhere. Cable Matters only goes to 33' so you might want to look at Phoossno as I think they offer a certified cable at that length. How will the cable be installed and will this be a single cable, source to sink run?


No Phoossno on Amazon.ca for whatever reason 

I need over 50ft. 60+ft should be ok.

I'm going to put in a conduit and go direct source to sink based on previous reading about issues with wallplates etc and these AOC cables. I'll test the cable before putting in the conduit though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> No Phoossno on Amazon.ca for whatever reason
> 
> I need over 50ft. 60+ft should be ok.
> 
> I'm going to put in a conduit and go direct source to sink based on previous reading about issues with wallplates etc and these AOC cables. I'll test the cable before putting in the conduit though.


Yes, installing 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit (SmurfTube for example) is almost a requirement nowadays for those long, in-wall cable runs. Don't forget to install a pull string as well so you can easily pull your cabling or add/replace a cable in the future. You can add a second pull string to the back of the cable as you pull it so that once your pull is done, you can disconnect the second pull string and have it in place for the next time. Attach the pull string to the body of the cable, not the connector ends, and keep the connector ends taped down to the pull string to prevent them from bending back on the cable as you pull around corners or bends. My guess is that you will have issues down the road with that CableDeconn cable. I've read posts that they are just Chinese knock-off cables so pay close attention to the return policy. Lay the cable out of the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to final installation. At 60', I'd test if for a few days just to make sure.

As far as Amazon.ca goes, Amazon has some really restrictive rules for companies using them to sell their products so it can take months for them to reach an agreement or, because of the cost, the companies just choose not to do business with Amazon.


----------



## errational

Otto Pylot said:


> Yes, installing 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit (SmurfTube for example) is almost a requirement nowadays for those long, in-wall cable runs. Don't forget to install a pull string as well so you can easily pull your cabling or add/replace a cable in the future. You can add a second pull string to the back of the cable as you pull it so that once your pull is done, you can disconnect the second pull string and have it in place for the next time. Attach the pull string to the body of the cable, not the connector ends, and keep the connector ends taped down to the pull string to prevent them from bending back on the cable as you pull around corners or bends. My guess is that you will have issues down the road with that CableDeconn cable. I've read posts that they are just Chinese knock-off cables so pay close attention to the return policy. Lay the cable out of the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to final installation. At 60', I'd test if for a few days just to make sure.


This one looks more promising. A reviewing mentions using it with a 30x0 and a C1: https://www.amazon.ca/Support-Dynam...00ft&qid=1632160641&s=electronics&sr=1-4&th=1

As soon as my wife is over the shock of the new TV price I will buy it and try it out.


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> This one looks more promising. A reviewing mentions using it with a 30x0 and a C1: https://www.amazon.ca/Support-Dynamic-Compatible-Projector-CL3-Installation/dp/B098F5SNJ9/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=8k+100ft&qid=1632160641&s=electronics&sr=1-4&th=1
> 
> As soon as my wife is over the shock of the new TV price I will buy it and try it out.


Same thing. Lots of boiler plate product description. Do note that it says eARC is not supported at 100' so if you want/need eARC you're gonna have issues. CL3 fire rating will probably result in a stiffer cable due to the jacket requirements so bend radius will have to be something to keep in mind, especially in-wall.


----------



## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> If you can receive eARC, then you are getting what is being sent, depending on how your receiver is set to process the signal. eARC from the built-in apps can be touch and go.


To expand on Otto's correct answer, eARC is a digital signal. If it's there, it's there. What the television does to create eARC with built-in apps is, as he says, touch and go. I'm not sure any BUILT IN apps gain from eARC vs ARC. Plex and perhaps some other players support eARC AIUI.

Again, AIUI, the use of eARC is with a UHD device to the television (Newer game boxes, newest graphic cards, etc.) rather than through the AVR. When AVRs can catch up with HDMI dreams, there will be little use for eARC. HD Blu-ray doesn't exceed 18 Gbps so can go through the AVR.


----------



## Infinite Xero

I have an LG CX and RTX 3090. I want to run the cable along the walls/doors so I'm looking for a +45ft _white_ HDMI 2.1 cable. Does this exist? All the recommend cables I've seen have black cords which will stand out.


----------



## Ellebob

Cables might be tough to find but white raceway, channeling, wire loom, concealer or other names is easily available and inexpensive.


----------



## Ratman

Amazon.com: HDMI Cable 50 ft - in-Wall High Speed HDMI Cord - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, 3D, Full HD, 2160p with Ethernet - Audio Return - Latest Version - 50 Feet (15.2 Meters) : Electronics


Amazon.com: HDMI Cable 50 ft - in-Wall High Speed HDMI Cord - CL3 Rated - Supports 4K, 3D, Full HD, 2160p with Ethernet - Audio Return - Latest Version - 50 Feet (15.2 Meters) : Electronics



www.amazon.com












Amazon.com: HDMI Cable 50ft Flat - Supports, 4K Video at 60 Hz, 3D, 2160p - HDMI Latest Standard - CL3 Rated - 50 Feet : Electronics


Buy HDMI Cable 50ft Flat - Supports, 4K Video at 60 Hz, 3D, 2160p - HDMI Latest Standard - CL3 Rated - 50 Feet: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Ellebob

I highly doubt you will get any passive 50ft cable to work at 18gbs with 26 gauge wire. I don't know if these white cables are active, then they should work but I didn't see that in the description. They might work with a signal restorer mentioned previously but even with 26 gauge wire it still might not work with a signal restorer. Read the one star reviews many say they work at a lesser bandwidth but not for 4K. I bet many of the positive reviews are not using sources that use higher bandwidths. Remember you can get basic 4K with 10.2gbs. You also might not need 18gbs and may work at a lesser bandwidth at 50ft depending on your situation.
Caveat Emptor.

I would look for an active or active optical cable that comes in white for that distance. If you can't find one then look at some of the other items mentioned to help conceal it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Infinite Xero said:


> I have an LG CX and RTX 3090. I want to run the cable along the walls/doors so I'm looking for a +45ft _white_ HDMI 2.1 cable. Does this exist? All the recommend cables I've seen have black cords which will stand out.


You might want to try and call the mfr directly because some of them might offer a white cable on request or put one together for you. Of course, that would have to be from a major mfr like Ruipro, Phoossno, Cable Matters, etc and not from any of the many (questionable) cables that Amazon resells.


----------



## Straykatt

Ruipro recommend I try a male to female 2.1 cable extender from the back of my 3090 then plug in the ruipro cable to see if the heat is what’s causing the problem. I’m running in game settings on max in assassin creed odyssey in 4k @ 120hrz rgb 444 10 bit gsync/vrr hdr; basically running the cable and card to its max. Ruipro was kind enough to send me their most current cable for testing and it was dropping out causing hdr to turn off. This was after ~2 hours of game play. My in game fps was around 40-70, having my 3090 in the red makes the connecting part of the cable extremely hot. The following weekend I plugged in my 10 ft zeskit cable, it was also extremely hot on the connection piece to the point it was uncomfortable to keep my fingers on it but the zeskit never flinched. I’m curious to see if the extension cord will solve the issue with the ruipro cutting out.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> Ruipro recommend I try a male to female 2.1 cable extender from the back of my 3090 then plug in the ruipro cable to see if the heat is what’s causing the problem. I’m running in game settings on max in assassin creed odyssey in 4k @ 120hrz rgb 444 10 bit gsync/vrr hdr; basically running the cable and card to its max. Ruipro was kind enough to send me their most current cable for testing and it was dropping out causing hdr to turn off. This was after ~2 hours of game play. My in game fps was around 40-70, having my 3090 in the red makes the connecting part of the cable extremely hot. The following weekend I plugged in my 10 ft zeskit cable, it was also extremely hot on the connection piece to the point it was uncomfortable to keep my fingers on it but the zeskit never flinched. I’m curious to see if the extension cord will solve the issue with the ruipro cutting out.


Vention offers an HDMI extension cable for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, at 0.5/1.5/2/3m lengths. The 3090 cards are known to run very hot which can affect signal quality depending on how well the cable has been designed to dissipate heat. If the cable connector feels hot, it's doing what it's designed to do by transferring the heat from the inside to the outside.


----------



## Straykatt

I ended up getting this one (I hope it’s 2.1 compliant, it says it is). Yes the back of the 3090 pushes out heat through the back of the card like a hair dryer and the hdmi port is right in the middle of it. I’ll circle back with my findings. 









Amazon.com: 8K HDMI Extension Cable, Maxonar 8K60 4K120 144Hz High Speed HDMI Extender Cord Male to Female Adapter Connector Compatible with Apple TV, Playstation 5/PS5, Xbox Series X, Roku/Fire/Sony/LG TV, 1.3FT : Electronics


Buy 8K HDMI Extension Cable, Maxonar 8K60 4K120 144Hz High Speed HDMI Extender Cord Male to Female Adapter Connector Compatible with Apple TV, Playstation 5/PS5, Xbox Series X, Roku/Fire/Sony/LG TV, 1.3FT: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I ended up getting this one (I hope it’s 2.1 compliant, it says it is). Yes the back of the 3090 pushes out heat through the back of the card like a hair dryer and the hdmi port is right in the middle of it. I’ll circle back with my findings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: 8K HDMI Extension Cable, Maxonar 8K60 4K120 144Hz High Speed HDMI Extender Cord Male to Female Adapter Connector Compatible with Apple TV, Playstation 5/PS5, Xbox Series X, Roku/Fire/Sony/LG TV, 1.3FT : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy 8K HDMI Extension Cable, Maxonar 8K60 4K120 144Hz High Speed HDMI Extender Cord Male to Female Adapter Connector Compatible with Apple TV, Playstation 5/PS5, Xbox Series X, Roku/Fire/Sony/LG TV, 1.3FT: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Maxonar makes good cables so I would suspect that their short, HDMI extension cable will work as well. Let us know. I know at one time the Vention extension cable said it was ATC certified for UHS but I don't see that mentioned now on their website. But at 1.5m, I'm thinking it would be ok. Pushing your 3090 to its max will be a good test for both cables.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> Maxonar makes good cables so I would suspect that their short, HDMI extension cable will work as well. Let us know. I know at one time the Vention extension cable said it was ATC certified for UHS but I don't see that mentioned now on their website. But at 1.5m, I'm thinking it would be ok. Pushing your 3090 to its max will be a good test for both cables.


That was a quick test.. I ran the zeskit 10ft about an hour to double check, no issues. I plugged in the extender to the zeskit for an hour, again no issues. I grabbed the ruipro cable with high hopes and it went black and automatically turned the hdr off in about 15-20 minutes. Dam!! I also tried plugging in the previous ruipro I still have in the conduit to the extender and it’s still dead. So who’s the next best candidate for 10 meter cable with amazing customer support like ruipro in case I have to return it for money back. I really just want the ruipro cable to work.


----------



## StephenBishop

Straykatt said:


> That was a quick test.. I ran the zeskit 10ft about an hour to double check, no issues. I plugged in the extender to the zeskit for an hour, again no issues. I grabbed the ruipro cable with high hopes and it went black and automatically turned the hdr off in about 15-20 minutes. Dam!! I also tried plugging in the previous ruipro I still have in the conduit to the extender and it’s still dead. So who’s the next best candidate for 10 meter cable with amazing customer support like ruipro in case I have to return it for money back. I really just want the ruipro cable to work.


You may wish to try sourcing one directly (not from Amazon) from Phoossno. Not sure of return/refund situation though.

See the post below for more info.



Jordyn11 said:


> Well have to say very impressed with the customer service so far as just got a response back which I wasn't expecting until after the weekend.
> 
> "We are sorry for bring trouble to you, this situation you description is correct, RTX3090 with LG C9 not success at [email protected], but works at [email protected], the reason is when go [email protected] timing not synchronize, cause handshake fail. HDMI 2.1 is FRL model, it is not like HDMI 2.1 it is TMDS+ Clock, there is a fixed clock channel to handle different frequency. That is why it is easy cause EDID handshake fail when go [email protected] or [email protected] .
> 
> Actually, we have solved LG C9 compatibility issue at next generation, due to we keep a lot of stock at Amazon, so I can not replace from Amazon. Is that possible to replace a new one , send to you from China directly?"
> 
> Something to note:
> The product page actually says that it is compatible with 3090 to LG C9 but they are working on 3090 to CX:
> 
> Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K , support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back compatible to HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4 [Note]: Compatible with RTX3080/3090 to LG C9/LG BX； RTX 3080/RTX 3090 to LG CX /LG B9 compatibility is on process of updating.
> However it seems that the product description may have been updated in advance of clearing out the existing stock, so something to keep in mind.
> 
> Regardless in my case it seems I will get a next gen replacement shipped out from China when we work through the logistics so will post back with further info when it comes to hand.


----------



## Straykatt

StephenBishop said:


> You may wish to try sourcing one directly (not from Amazon) from Phoossno. Not sure of return/refund situation though.
> 
> See the post below for more info.


I’m using the 3090 with the cx. I wonder why they’re in the process of getting it fixed I guess I wait to hear if they got them working with no issues


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I’m using the 3090 with the cx. I wonder why they’re in the process of getting it fixed I guess I wait to hear if they got them working with no issues


Phoossno is who I would recommend as well if the current Ruipro is not woking. Ruipro has just received ATC, UHS certification for their new hybrid fiber cable so it should be available in a couple of weeks. They have been tested against the 3080/3090 gpu's but, as with any device, there are no guarantees. Most mfrs of hybrid fiber cables do test their cables against the most common HDMI 2.1 devices (new gen RTX gpu's, LG/Sony tv's, etc).


----------



## Straykatt

I just sent Phoossno an email through Amazon. I couldn’t find their contact info on the web. I asked if they have any known issues with the 3090/3080 on LG cx in 4k @ 120hrz hdr 10-bit rgb 444 gsync/vrr because their cables say they’re certified albeit in the comments it states 3080/3090 is process of updating?


----------



## 5468467984

---removed--- saw that issue was resolved in subsequent posts.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I just sent Phoossno an email through Amazon. I couldn’t find their contact info on the web. I asked if they have any known issues with the 3090/3080 on LG cx in 4k @ 120hrz hdr 10-bit rgb 444 gsync/vrr because their cables say they’re certified albeit in the comments it states 3080/3090 is process of updating?


There seems to be issues with some of the 3080/3090's and just about any hybrid fiber, UHS HDMI cable, certified or not. Not sure if it's heat related, or the implementation of some of the 2.1 option sets or incompatibility with the active cable chipsets, or the chipsets at the sink end. Too many variables to definitively figure out what's going on. Not that it's much of a consolation but all of the cable mfrs are trying to figure out what the problem is. As usual, the device mfrs push their products out and if there are issues, they blame the cable mfrs. I think the fault lies somewhere in-between.


----------



## Straykatt

Soul_ said:


> ---removed--- saw that issue was resolved in subsequent posts.


That’s awesome! 50 ft too. How long have you had the cable? What resolution do you game at, what in game setting, what monitor/tv, in hdr, 10 bit, vrr, etc?


----------



## ManuBBXX

Phoossno is the only one who did it for me (perfect 4K120 + GSYNC)

RuiPro and cableMatters, although strong cables, failed for me
I would recommend Phoossno


----------



## Straykatt

ManuBBXX said:


> Phoossno is the only one who did it for me (perfect 4K120 + GSYNC)
> 
> RuiPro and cableMatters, although strong cables, failed for me
> I would recommend Phoossno


How long have you had your cable? What graphics card and monitor/tv?


----------



## ManuBBXX

Straykatt said:


> How long have you had your cable? What graphics card and monitor/tv?


33 ft cable
rtx3080 plugged on QN95A (european model with one connect box)


----------



## Straykatt

It looks like they found the issue! Here’s their response below

Thank you for your inquiry and support to phoossno. Our cable is support LG CX to 3090 with Generation 2, since we have a lot of stock at Amazon, so we will establish a new code at Amazon, and expected launch at Nov~Dec, since exsting long long time logistics. The reason why LG CX and C9 not work wth RTX3080/3090, root reason is timing not synchronization when go [email protected] at FRL mode, it not like HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 1.4, there is a channel CLOCK used for adjusting the timing frequrence. Again, thank you for your support, we wish wait for around 2 month when our new generation launch Amazon. If you can not wait, you can google us , we will arrange ship from factory directly. Thank you for your trust and support. Have a nice weekend. phoossno


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> It looks like they found the issue! Here’s their response below
> 
> Thank you for your inquiry and support to phoossno. Our cable is support LG CX to 3090 with Generation 2, since we have a lot of stock at Amazon, so we will establish a new code at Amazon, and expected launch at Nov~Dec, since exsting long long time logistics. The reason why LG CX and C9 not work wth RTX3080/3090, root reason is timing not synchronization when go [email protected] at FRL mode, it not like HDMI 2.0 or HDMI 1.4, there is a channel CLOCK used for adjusting the timing frequrence. Again, thank you for your support, we wish wait for around 2 month when our new generation launch Amazon. If you can not wait, you can google us , we will arrange ship from factory directly. Thank you for your trust and support. Have a nice weekend. phoossno


I'm glad that James mentioned that to you. It's been in my notes for awhile but I wasn't able to publicly post that much detail initially. Phoossno is a good company with customer support on par with Ruipro.

What he means by a lot of stock in Amazon is that Amazon controls what inventory they will ship to customers, not Phoossno. That was an issue when Ruipro came out with their Gen3/C cables and folks wanted to order them specifically. Amazon would literally just grab their oldest inventory first and ship it because Ruipro hadn't changed the product code. To avoid that, Phoossno is using a new product code to distinguish the upgraded cable from the the others. Ruipro is doing something similar only they are changing the cable name to distinguish the ATC certified cable from the non-certified cable ( Ruipro 8k Gen3/C to Ruipro 8k Gen3/C UHS).


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm glad that James mentioned that to you. It's been in my notes for awhile but I wasn't able to publicly post that much detail initially. Phoossno is a good company with customer support on par with Ruipro.
> 
> What he means by a lot of stock in Amazon is that Amazon controls what inventory they will ship to customers, not Phoossno. That was an issue when Ruipro came out with their Gen3/C cables and folks wanted to order them specifically. Amazon would literally just grab their oldest inventory first and ship it because Ruipro hadn't changed the product code. To avoid that, Phoossno is using a new product code to distinguish the upgraded cable from the the others. Ruipro is doing something similar only they are changing the cable name to distinguish the ATC certified cable from the non-certified cable ( Ruipro 8k Gen3/C to Ruipro 8k Gen3/C UHS).


I hope I don’t get anyone in trouble, should I remove my post?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I hope I don’t get anyone in trouble, should I remove my post?


I don't think there'll be a problem. It's been posted and read now so it's out there.


----------



## Kadath

Whats the go-to for 50' fiber optic 8k cables these days?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kadath said:


> Whats the go-to for 50' fiber optic 8k cables these days?


Phoossno. Cable Matters only goes to 33' (so far) and Ruipro hasn't released their 15m, ATC certified UHS cable yet. If you don't want a certified cable, there are quite a few other choices. Caveat emptor.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> Cable Matters only goes to 33' (so far)


Cable Matters now offers a 15m Certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable.








Amazon.com: Cable Matters [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox Series X, PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics


Amazon.com: Cable Matters [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox Series X, PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics



www.amazon.com


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Cable Matters now offers a 15m Certified UHS HDMI 2.1 cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Cable Matters [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox Series X, PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: Cable Matters [Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified] Active 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m - Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Compatible with Xbox Series X, PS5, Apple TV, PC : Electronics
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Excellent. I was wondering when they would release the new cable.


----------



## Jordyn11

Thought I would pass on that Phoossno just advised that they have posted on their youtube channel regarding 3080/3090 to C9 on the gen 2 cables (the labels on the videos are round the wrong way.) Also my replacement cable is on the way so look forward to reporting back when it arrives.



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrK5zzLeNpoX_KtZo02dzfw/videos



They also have posted their contact details in the description of the videos for those that are looking to contact them directly.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Jordyn11 said:


> Thought I would pass on that Phoossno just advised that they have posted on their youtube channel regarding 3080/3090 to C9 on the gen 2 cables (the labels on the videos are round the wrong way.) Also my replacement cable is on the way so look forward to reporting back when it arrives.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrK5zzLeNpoX_KtZo02dzfw/videos
> 
> 
> 
> They also have posted their contact details in the description of the videos for those that are looking to contact them directly.


They also have an interesting video that shows the cable building process for those interested in that kind of thing. I talked to them today and they feel very good about the new cable being released on time.


----------



## 5468467984

Straykatt said:


> That’s awesome! 50 ft too. How long have you had the cable? What resolution do you game at, what in game setting, what monitor/tv, in hdr, 10 bit, vrr, etc?


I have had the cable since November last year. 4k120Hz 12bit colour at RGB 4:4:4 (so using full 48Gbps) from 3080 Gaming X trio and 3080ti FTW3 ultra to LG C9. VRR on and off works both ways no issues.


----------



## Straykatt

Otto Pylot said:


> They also have an interesting video that shows the cable building process for those interested in that kind of thing. I talked to them today and they feel very good about the new cable being released on time.


I seen this video too however all the ruipro cables boot up to windows. The real test is when gaming at max everything and over time.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Straykatt said:


> I seen this video too however all the ruipro cables boot up to windows. The real test is when gaming at max everything and over time.


Not sure what you mean by "ruipro cables boot up to windows". One cable mfr I just talked to said that while most all cables are tested against the most common tv's and graphic cards for HDMI 2.1, there is still some variation in how the gpu's are designed and how the tv's handle the HDMI 2.1 option sets. The heat dissipation alone is all over the place with the gpu's, even within the same card mfr. Getting the device mfrs' to cooperate better with the cable mfrs is also proving to be very difficult.


----------



## Jordyn11

Speaking from my experience with the 50ft Gen 1 cable the issue wasn't with getting a signal when enabling 4k 120hz, it is was with maintaining the signal without dropping the handshake, which they have advised is due to a timing issue and has been resolved in Gen 2. Will see when it arrives.


----------



## ReciprocalSpace

Anyone know why the vast majority of longer/active HDMI 2.1 cables only list HDCP 2.2 and not 2.3 like many of the shorter / non-active cables? Even expensive 48Gbps fiber optic cables like from Bullet Train only list HDCP 2.2. Would hate to spend that kind of money only to have it not be HDCP compliant in the future when 2.3 was standard. The only fiber optic cable I could find that listed HDCP 2.3 and plenum/CL3 rated was from Tripp-Lite, P568F-*X*M-8K6, though they don't say they are ultra high speed HDMI certified. That being said Amazon appeared to have a price mistake on the 25M version where it was only $115, so I jumped on that even though I only needed 10M (immediately went back up to ~$170-180 after I purchased). Can't find any reviews and it will be a few monthly before I can install and test it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ReciprocalSpace said:


> Anyone know why the vast majority of longer/active HDMI 2.1 cables only list HDCP 2.2 and not 2.3 like many of the shorter / non-active cables? Even expensive 48Gbps fiber optic cables like from Bullet Train only list HDCP 2.2. Would hate to spend that kind of money only to have it not be HDCP compliant in the future when 2.3 was standard. The only fiber optic cable I could find that listed HDCP 2.3 and plenum/CL3 rated was from Tripp-Lite, P568F-*X*M-8K6, though they don't say they are ultra high speed HDMI certified. That being said Amazon appeared to have a price mistake on the 25M version where it was only $115, so I jumped on that even though I only needed 10M (immediately went back up to ~$170-180 after I purchased). Can't find any reviews and it will be a few monthly before I can install and test it.


Do you really need CL3 fire rating? CL rated cables are kind of hard to find, a bit more expensive because of the jacketing requirement, and possibly a bit stiffer, again due to the jacket. Ruipro cables are HDCP2.3 compliant as are Phoossno and Cable Matters I think.

If you only need 10m (not 25m ) then I'd look closely at Ruipro (their 8k cable just received ATC certification and should be available soon), Phoossno, or Cable Matters.

I'm assuming you will be installing in a conduit and I suggest that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.


----------



## ReciprocalSpace

Otto Pylot said:


> Do you really need CL3 fire rating? CL rated cables are kind of hard to find, a bit more expensive because of the jacketing requirement, and possibly a bit stiffer, again due to the jacket. Ruipro cables are HDCP2.3 compliant as are Phoossno and Cable Matters I think.
> 
> If you only need 10m (not 25m ) then I'd look closely at Ruipro (their 8k cable just received ATC certification and should be available soon), Phoossno, or Cable Matters.
> 
> I'm assuming you will be installing in a conduit and I suggest that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.


Thanks. Quick Ruipro shows HDCP 2.2, but Phoossno I see HDCP 2.3. Not sure I need fire rating but just trying to follow rules I guess. Not in conduit but above home theater is the attic and not terribly difficult to run and drop into the closet aka av rack. Testing beforehand is a very good suggestion and I honestly may have missed that.


----------



## Otto Pylot

ReciprocalSpace said:


> Thanks. Quick Ruipro shows HDCP 2.2, but Phoossno I see HDCP 2.3. Not sure I need fire rating but just trying to follow rules I guess. Not in conduit but above home theater is the attic and not terribly difficult to run and drop into the closet aka av rack. Testing beforehand is a very good suggestion and I honestly may have missed that.


Conduit (with a pull string) is really the ONLY way to "future proof" your cabling. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so you need a plan in place to easily upgrade your cabling when the time comes, and it will. Easy access to your cabling is almost a requirement nowadays. Conduit it one way if your cabling is in-wall, unless you can drop your cabling in the space between wall studs. You also need to be careful with bend radius (no sharp 90º bends) and carefully pull your cable (not from the connector ends). Ruipro's current 8k cable (Gen 3-C) is HDCP 2.3 compliant and the new certified one will be as well. However, the cable is just a data pipe. What really decides what you can send/receive is the HDMI chipsets at the source and sink end.

As far as fire rating, that's a personal preference. It has nothing to do with cable performance.

Test! Test! Test! prior to installation.


----------



## Ellebob

A story on in wall rated wire. Working in this industry I have heard stories on occasion about insurance companies not paying claims due to faulty wiring or no CL rated wire. I took it with a grain of salt until several years ago we went for an install at this home with an older couple. The wife states with some bitterness that we called you guys because my husband screwed it up the last time and we had a fire because of it and the insurance company wouldn't pay because it wasn't the correct wire he ran in the walls. So I insisted professionals do it this time. She showed us the pictures of the fire. It burned up a living room wall and other than the room being black from smoke not a lot of other damage lucky and no one hurt.

So what happened? Seeing the pictures and talking to them we got the story. The gentleman had used an old inexpensive Stereo receiver and ran 4 pairs of speakers all over the house from it. It overloaded the receiver and the receiver caught fire and burned up the wall and ceiling area in the area of the receiver. The fire never came from the wiring in the walls. The wiring didn't cause the fire but because they didn't use in wall rated wire the insurance company refused to pay their claim. In reality the wiring had nothing to do with the fire. We explained this to them and they were going to go back to the insurance company. I'm not sure how that worked out. We did a whole house system for them and that's the last we heard of it.

So using in wall rated wire is for insurance and not performance. It is very unlikely most of the low voltage wire we deal with would ever be the cause of a fire. The jacket they use for in wall wire does have fire resistant properties and does help if placed near electrical or a heat source. It is your personal choice whether you want to make to use in wall rated wire. Insurance companies are always looking for a way to deny a claim but in general I would say it is pretty low risk.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yep. That's the only reason to use CL2/3 rated cables, to avoid insurance hassles. Certainly an arguable point being as CL2 is rated for 150v and CL3 is rated for 300v. Way above what any LV source would carry but yeah, any little excuse for the insurance company to screw you they will. Both have a vertical flame test of no more than 8'.


----------



## Ratman

Check your local building codes before purchase/installing. That should settle any insurance or self-assurance requirements.


----------



## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> Do you really need CL3 fire rating? CL rated cables are kind of hard to find, a bit more expensive because of the jacketing requirement, and possibly a bit stiffer, again due to the jacket. Ruipro cables are HDCP2.3 compliant as are Phoossno and Cable Matters I think.
> 
> If you only need 10m (not 25m ) then I'd look closely at Ruipro (their 8k cable just received ATC certification and should be available soon), Phoossno, or Cable Matters.
> 
> I'm assuming you will be installing in a conduit and I suggest that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations.


I need a 10m HDMI cable. From reading the previous posts it is hit and miss ordering that cable from Amazon. Is there a CL3 rated 10m 8k available from a reliable source other than Amazon? This is the final piece to complete my HT install.

Thanks John


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> I need a 10m HDMI cable. From reading the previous posts it is hit and miss ordering that cable from Amazon. Is there a CL3 rated 10m 8k available from a reliable source other than Amazon? This is the final piece to complete my HT install.
> 
> Thanks John


Which cable? Three were mentioned, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters. CL rated, 10m, certified UHS hybrid fiber cables are hard to find because one, there isn't that much of a demand for them and two, it costs more to mfr them because of the additional jacket requirement/certification costs. If you want/need a certified 8k cable, then I'd contact the cable mfrs directly on their websites and ask if they offer such a thing.

If you are dead-set on a CL2/3 fire rated cable, then as mentioned by @Ratman, check your building codes and insurance carrier. You will be limiting yourself to your cable options if you do want CL rated, certified, 8k hybrid fiber cables. The recommendation would be to use a conduit so you can easily and safely upgrade your cabling when you find one that meets your needs. As always, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. There are no 100% guarantees for any cable.


----------



## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> Which cable? Three were mentioned, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters. CL rated, 10m, certified UHS hybrid fiber cables are hard to find because one, there isn't that much of a demand for them and two, it costs more to mfr them because of the additional jacket requirement/certification costs. If you want/need a certified 8k cable, then I'd contact the cable mfrs directly on their websites and ask if they offer such a thing.
> 
> If you are dead-set on a CL2/3 fire rated cable, then as mentioned by @Ratman, check your building codes and insurance carrier. You will be limiting yourself to your cable options if you do want CL rated, certified, 8k hybrid fiber cables. The recommendation would be to use a conduit so you can easily and safely upgrade your cabling when you find one that meets your needs. As always, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it before final installation. There are no 100% guarantees for any cable.


I do have a conduit installed. I dont have a preference on manufacturer, just performance. It seemed to me all of those manufacturers, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters, direct you back to Amazon for purchase. Thats why I asked where people are getting these higher end cables. I will contact the insurance lady to see if the CL3 rated cable is a requirement for the coverage. 

Thanks


----------



## Ratman

I'd highly recommend you verify with your local government/electrical inspector in your town.


----------



## Otto Pylot

john.odonnell01 said:


> I do have a conduit installed. I dont have a preference on manufacturer, just performance. It seemed to me all of those manufacturers, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters, direct you back to Amazon for purchase. Thats why I asked where people are getting these higher end cables. I will contact the insurance lady to see if the CL3 rated cable is a requirement for the coverage.
> 
> Thanks


Contact the mfrs directly thru their Support link by going to their websites. Some may not have direct consumer sales. I have tested Ruipro, Phoossno, and Zeskit but the cables were sent to me directly from the mfrs. Performance, while there should be no difference between the certified cables, can vary for different reasons, so as long as you have easy access to your cabling, which it sounds like you have, then all you can do is try. I've used all three with no real difference in performance. Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work given the huge variation in connected devices, installation scheme, and expectations.

Contacting your insurance carrier is a good idea because that may determine which cable you get.


----------



## Ellebob

CL rating are part of NEC ( national electrical code). I doubt any local inspector would go against their guidelines. We have to get permits all the time and most inspectors (not all) are not well versed on the low voltage areas of NEC. I also doubt insurance agents would be aware unless they are the same individual that comes to your home to assess damage when filing a claim.
That being said, I think it is very low risk. Chances of this being related to a fire are extremely small. They are not going to deny a claim if the fire was not related to the wire or equipment connected to it.


----------



## Ratman

Ellebob said:


> We have to get permits all the time and most inspectors (not all) are not well versed on the low voltage areas of NEC.


Huh? Don't know where you live, but I would believe the electrical inspectors have a electrical licence and are well versed on the local wiring/electrical laws.



> I also doubt insurance agents would be aware unless they are the same individual that comes to your home to assess damage when filing a claim.


An insurance "agent" will say anything to help retain a profitable position.

Just my opinion.


----------



## Ellebob

I find most inspectors come from the electrical side of things and aren't well versed on NEC for low voltage. I see things electricians do all the time that while not dangerous do not go by NEC guidelines. Which by the way we have to study for our certifications as well. I work mostly in the New England states but we do travel for some dedicated theaters. We mostly do projector systems both residential and commercial. So longer HDMI cables are often necessary and one of the reasons I follow this thread.

Low voltage should be a foot away from electrical lines whenever possible or at least on the other side of joist/stud. I see electricians run coax, category cable, etc along the same joist as electrical all the time. Sometime there is no other option but many times it could be run via an alternate route.

No offense to electricians but many are "old school" and think every TV just needs a coax cable. Electricians routinely run a coax and outlet to a TV location and think that's all that is needed. Some better ones will run Cat5/6 as well. Few run conduit for HDMI or other wiring unless specifically asked, again there are some better ones that realize all equipment isn't where the TV is located like over a fireplace. But, at this point in time the majority just put in coax and an outlet. It is not that they are bad electricians they simply don't realize what wiring is needed for low voltage systems.

Many inspectors that come from the electrical side only notice big mistakes like running low voltage and electrical through the same hole. I have seen homeowners wire their own house without in wall rated wire and the inspector never said anything. Common with clear jacketed speaker wire. Most of the other common wire types like Cat5/6 and coax are typically in wall rated anyway. 

Just my experience. YMMV.


----------



## Ratman

Doesn't hurt to ask though, does it? The local requirements should be documented by your local government and not just based on an inspector's qualification(s) or old school opinion/experience (or lack thereof).


----------



## john.odonnell01

john.odonnell01 said:


> I do have a conduit installed. I dont have a preference on manufacturer, just performance. It seemed to me all of those manufacturers, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters, direct you back to Amazon for purchase. Thats why I asked where people are getting these higher end cables. I will contact the insurance lady to see if the CL3 rated cable is a requirement for the coverage.
> 
> Thanks


I contacted my insurance agent, he is also an electrical contractor, he said there is no provision in the NEC for CL2/CL3 rated LOW voltage cable in LOW voltage conduit/boxes. Insurance companies are held to strict standards about what they have to cover and pay out. IF cable is not installed in any conduit/ electrically rated boxes, some lesser companies, (I have STate Farm) may have to be challenged to pay out. But they should based on state insurance requirements. This only applies to low voltage cabling/wiring i.e. <50 volts. Some local ordinances may have additional rrequirements due to push for union contracts.


----------



## Ratman

john.odonnell01 said:


> Some* local* ordinances may have additional rrequirements...


Which is why it's a good idea to verify local requirements before installation.


----------



## Otto Pylot

This has been an interesting conversation, it not a bit long. I for one don't bother with CL rated LV wiring as I do not want to limit my choices when it comes to wiring my HTS's.


----------



## Ellebob

Any cable in the wall whether in conduit or not needs to be in wall rated by code. There are some special provions for metal conduit and non-metal cables like fiber optic. However, the coating on fiber optic cable still needs to be CL rated for fire protection because of NFPA 70. 
That is the code and double checked with our electricians. Whether you use in wall rated cable or not doesn't matter to me. It is very low risk that it would ever be the cause of a problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Any cable in the wall whether in conduit or not needs to be in wall rated by code. There are some special provions for metal conduit and non-metal cables like fiber optic. However, the coating on fiber optic cable still needs to be CL rated for fire protection because of NFPA 70.
> That is the code and double checked with our electricians. Whether you use in wall rated cable or not doesn't matter to me. It is very low risk that it would ever be the cause of a problem.


Code or not it's really irrelevant to the end-user. If he chooses to use CL rated cable, be it copper only or hybrid fiber, then his choice of cable and length are limited. If he chooses not to, his choices of cable has opened considerably. And I agree, LV cable is highly unlikely to be the cause of a fire or even the propagation of a fire. It's possible but highly unlikely.


----------



## by96

The issue with in-wall rated cables isn’t that the cables will start a fire. There is basically no risk of that. However, if a fire does occur, cables not rated for in-wall use can emit a chemical when burning. In-wall rated cables are built to not emit this chemical. 

I would think that any cable of significant length would be in-wall rated. Few people would use a 50 foot cable anywhere but in-wall and in-ceiling. 

Also, it is my understanding that if the cable is run in conduit, it does not have to be in-wall rated. My contractor and I recently ran some shorter USB cables in a wall through conduit and they didn’t have to be in-wall rated. In theory, the conduit would slow the rate of the cable catching fire. Now, this issue may vary based on local building codes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Otto Pylot

by96 said:


> The issue with in-wall rated cables isn’t that the cables will start a fire. There is basically no risk of that. However, if a fire does occur, cables not rated for in-wall use can emit a chemical when burning. In-wall rated cables are built to not emit this chemical.
> 
> I would think that any cable of significant length would be in-wall rated. Few people would use a 50 foot cable anywhere but in-wall and in-ceiling.
> 
> Also, it is my understanding that if the cable is run in conduit, it does not have to be in-wall rated. My contractor and I recently ran some shorter USB cables in a wall through conduit and they didn’t have to be in-wall rated. In theory, the conduit would slow the rate of the cable catching fire. Now, this issue may vary based on local building codes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It costs more to the mfr to offer CL rated cables because of the thicker jacket requirements and the testing/certification process, so that cost is passed on to the consumer. Probably not much but a cost increase none-the-less.

CL rated cables have to pass the "vertical tray flame test" which means that they don't normally spread flames more than 8'. CL2 (150V) and CL3 (300V) don't reduce smoke or gases but reduce the possibility of shock. The same it true for CM/CMG rated cables which are typically for ethernet connections.

I think the reason that most HDMI cables (copper or hybrid fiber) are not CL rated is cost of production and being as they are LV, there really isn't a need. But given how insurance companies are always looking for an "out" to not have to pay a claim.....


----------



## bmrowe

I am troubleshooting a problem that is driving me crazy. Setup:

xbox series X - > SPK618 (Denon's hdmi adapter fix for hdmi 2.1) -> Denon x3700 -> Samsung QN90A. The Denon and Samsung are on opposite sides of the room and I have them connected with a RuiPro Gen3C cable. 

This setup works great unless I play a 4k120+HDR game. I then get a no signal screen. Moving the RuiPro cable from the back of the receiver to be directly plugged into the xbox - everything works perfectly. 

Denon is blaming the cable and per receiver logs, is seeing issues with FRL. I've since tried two other certified cables (cable matters and phoossno). Both cables exhibit identical issues to above. 

Finally, with a PS5, I have no issues playing 4k120+hdr content. I know the PS5 is capped at 32gbps, and the xbox is trying to send 40gbps when I'm having these issues.

All that said, anyone run into this? Should I keep trying cables? Should I push Denon? Samsung? the cable makers?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> I am troubleshooting a problem that is driving me crazy. Setup:
> 
> xbox series X - > SPK618 (Denon's hdmi adapter fix for hdmi 2.1) -> Denon x3700 -> Samsung QN90A. The Denon and Samsung are on opposite sides of the room and I have them connected with a RuiPro Gen3C cable.
> 
> This setup works great unless I play a 4k120+HDR game. I then get a no signal screen. Moving the RuiPro cable from the back of the receiver to be directly plugged into the xbox - everything works perfectly.
> 
> Denon is blaming the cable and per receiver logs, is seeing issues with FRL. I've since tried two other certified cables (cable matters and phoossno). Both cables exhibit identical issues to above.
> 
> Finally, with a PS5, I have no issues playing 4k120+hdr content. I know the PS5 is capped at 32gbps, and the xbox is trying to send 40gbps when I'm having these issues.
> 
> All that said, anyone run into this? Should I keep trying cables? Should I push Denon? Samsung? the cable makers?


The fact that the Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters (the triumvirate of quality cables) exhibit the same issues points to that "band-aid" fix that Denon pushed out for their faulty HDMI 2.1 chipsets. Assuming you are using the correct HDMI port on the QN90A (I have one as well) then I'd suspect the Denon dongle, especially if by bypassing it all three cables work.


----------



## Ellebob

With HDMI it is really difficult to test the system without test equipment. However there is one simple test you can try to see if it is the cable or equipment. That is temporarily place all your equipment near each other and test the system with all decent 2 meter or less passive cables. If it works it the cable.
Then try the longer cables while the equipment is still near each other. If it works then something is probably interfering with the cables signal when in the wall. If it doesn't work definitely the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> With HDMI it is really difficult to test the system without test equipment. However there is one simple test you can try to see if it is the cable or equipment. That is temporarily place all your equipment near each other and test the system with all decent 2 meter or less passive cables. If it works it the cable.
> Then try the longer cables while the equipment is still near each other. If it works then something is probably interfering with the cables signal when in the wall. If it doesn't work definitely the cable.


We have always stated that when purchasing a new, long HDMI cable (be it for the HDMI 2.0 or the 2.1 options sets) it's always best to lay it out on the floor first and test it thoroughly prior to final installation, and this is especially important if one is going to install in-wall with or without a conduit. HDMI cables less that 3m should always work in most cases, be they passive or active. 

Passive cables are always best if one has the choice because there is nothing in-between but the cable. Active cables, copper only or hybrid fiber, have chipsets in the connector ends for timing, error correction, etc and that doesn't always work well with the signal coming from the source.


----------



## bmrowe

Ellebob said:


> With HDMI it is really difficult to test the system without test equipment. However there is one simple test you can try to see if it is the cable or equipment. That is temporarily place all your equipment near each other and test the system with all decent 2 meter or less passive cables. If it works it the cable.
> Then try the longer cables while the equipment is still near each other. If it works then something is probably interfering with the cables signal when in the wall. If it doesn't work definitely the cable.


I think its a bit more nuanced that this. With active cables, we are seeing compatibility issues that can only be introduced when using an active cable and certain combination of equipment. In the example I posted above, xbox->denon->Samsung works fine with short passive cables. xbox->Samsung works fine with a long active cable. But, xbox->denon->Samsung has massive issues with the long active cable. 

Phoossno just wrote back to me that they have an updated cable in testing that should hopefully solve some of these compatibility issues. They've offered me a cable to test, so I'll be curious to see what that brings.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> I think its a bit more nuanced that this. With active cables, we are seeing compatibility issues that can only be introduced when using an active cable and certain combination of equipment. In the example I posted above, xbox->denon->Samsung works fine with short passive cables. xbox->Samsung works fine with a long active cable. But, xbox->denon->Samsung has massive issues with the long active cable.
> 
> Phoossno just wrote back to me that they have an updated cable in testing that should hopefully solve some of these compatibility issues. They've offered me a cable to test, so I'll be curious to see what that brings.


FWIW, Ruipro has released their ATC certified, hybrid fiber cable on Amazon.
www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynamic-Flexible-Projector-Theatre/dp/B09GFXF6QZ

Cable mfrs appear to be constantly working on keeping their cables compatible with devices as firmware versions are updated on the devices. It's a constant battle but the quality cable mfrs are doing their best to stay current and competitive.


----------



## bmrowe

Just got the BRIDGEE certified 8k 10m cable. This one couldn't pass 4k120 + HDR. I tested with both an AVR between the xbox and tv, and without. Neither worked. Needless to say, I'd avoid that brand as its the first 'certified' cable I've tested that didn't work when connected to just the xbox and tv.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Just got the BRIDGEE certified 8k 10m cable. This one couldn't pass 4k120 + HDR. I tested with both an AVR between the xbox and tv, and without. Neither worked. Needless to say, I'd avoid that brand as its the first 'certified' cable I've tested that didn't work when connected to just the xbox and tv.


I've never heard of BRIDGEE but there are lots of certified HDMI cables out there. I'm assuming it came with a QR label that you scanned. The ones that seem to be the most reliable (even tho ALL of them have had issues from time to time with various configurations) are Phoossno, Ruipro, Cable Matters, Zeskit, Maxonar, and not in any particular order.


----------



## Ellebob

bmrowe said:


> I think its a bit more nuanced that this. With active cables, we are seeing compatibility issues that can only be introduced when using an active cable and certain combination of equipment. In the example I posted above, xbox->denon->Samsung works fine with short passive cables. xbox->Samsung works fine with a long active cable. But, xbox->denon->Samsung has massive issues with the long active cable.
> 
> Phoossno just wrote back to me that they have an updated cable in testing that should hopefully solve some of these compatibility issues. They've offered me a cable to test, so I'll be curious to see what that brings.


Exactly, you diagnosed the problem is the cable and you need a different cable. Active cables do add complexity but if you are trying to narrow the problem whether it is the equipment or the cables, use passive cables for testing that are not too long and good quality. If it is the equipment the problem will persist with passive cables. Active cables need to be transparent to the system.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Exactly, you diagnosed the problem is the cable and you need a different cable. Active cables do add complexity but if you are trying to narrow the problem whether it is the equipment or the cables, use passive cables for testing that are not too long and good quality. If it is the equipment the problem will persist with passive cables. Active cables need to be transparent to the system.


That is a good way to test the system vs cable issue, but to be complete the cables should be the same length. A shorter cable typically has a better chance of working than a longer cable, be it passive or active. The idea of an active cable is to be able to push the signal over longer lengths without errors. I use passive cables on both of my systems and have never had cable-related issues.


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> FWIW, Ruipro has released their ATC certified, hybrid fiber cable on Amazon.
> www.amazon.com/RUIPRO-Dynamic-Flexible-Projector-Theatre/dp/B09GFXF6QZ


Still with the effing green jacket... lol.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> Still with the effing green jacket... lol.


Yeah, but the connectors are white! .


----------



## bobof

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, but the connectors are white! .


Oh, even better!


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> Oh, even better!


😁


----------



## Ratman

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## bmrowe

Ellebob said:


> Exactly, you diagnosed the problem is the cable and you need a different cable. Active cables do add complexity but if you are trying to narrow the problem whether it is the equipment or the cables, use passive cables for testing that are not too long and good quality. If it is the equipment the problem will persist with passive cables. Active cables need to be transparent to the system.


No, I think it’s either a Denon, or Samsung issue. The cables themselves work as expected since I’ve now tried 4 brands. The AVR and tv are struggling with the active cables. I’ve got cases open with both companies.


----------



## Ellebob

bmrowe said:


> No, I think it’s either a Denon, or Samsung issue. The cables themselves work as expected since I’ve now tried 4 brands. The AVR and tv are struggling with the active cables. I’ve got cases open with both companies.


Did you try it with passive cables? 
People like to think it is the other equipment but it is simple, if it works with passive cables it is not the equipment. Active cables should not present any differently to the system. Receivers, TVs, source equipment, etc. is built and tested using passive cables that is why it is important for the active cable to act like it is a passive cable.
If you have test equipment there are other things you can test and make sure everything is to spec. Test equipment that most installers use are ~$5k and only does 40gb at the moment and that is the same testers used in the Phoossno video. The same ones we have on our trucks. The better test equipment is considerably more and some of it well into six figures. This can be tough for even small manufactures to keep up with the latest and greatest.


----------



## bmrowe

Ellebob said:


> Did you try it with passive cables?
> People like to think it is the other equipment but it is simple, if it works with passive cables it is not the equipment. Active cables should not present any differently to the system. Receivers, TVs, source equipment, etc. is built and tested using passive cables that is why it is important for the active cable to act like it is a passive cable.
> If you have test equipment there are other things you can test and make sure everything is to spec. Test equipment that most installers use are ~$5k and only does 40gb at the moment and that is the same testers used in the Phoossno video. The same ones we have on our trucks. The better test equipment is considerably more and some of it well into six figures. This can be tough for even small manufactures to keep up with the latest and greatest.


In my case, I find it hard to believe that multiple, highly regarded, certified cables are the issue when Denon has already had issues (and a pretty terrible fix) for basic HDMI 2.1 compatibility. Agree with the point at a high level, but once a cable is certified, blame needs to go back to source/display devices when they don't function as expected within the specs defined by the hdmi standard.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> In my case, I find it hard to believe that multiple, highly regarded, certified cables are the issue when Denon has already had issues (and a pretty terrible fix) for basic HDMI 2.1 compatibility. Agree with the point at a high level, but once a cable is certified, blame needs to go back to source/display devices when they don't function as expected within the specs defined by the hdmi standard.


I would agree. Denon's "fix" is a bandaid at best. Even certified cables can have issues (one bad apple in the barrel so to speak) but not multiple cables with the only change being the cables.


----------



## Ellebob

Again does the Denon work with passive cables?
Did I miss the answer?
I don't doubt that Denon might have issues but the point is how do you tell? The answer is test with passive cables. It reduces the variables.

I don't know what chipsets these active cables are using but if they are the same chipset that could be the problem even if different brands.

If the Denon is the problem it should have the problem with passive cables. It is the only practical way to start diagnosing the problem. Or you can randomly change out equipment and/or cables and hopefully get a lucky combo that works.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Again does the Denon work with passive cables?
> Did I miss the answer?
> I don't doubt that Denon might have issues but the point is how do you tell? The answer is test with passive cables. It reduces the variables.
> 
> I don't know what chipsets these active cables are using but if they are the same chipset that could be the problem even if different brands.
> 
> If the Denon is the problem it should have the problem with passive cables. It is the only practical way to start diagnosing the problem. Or you can randomly change out equipment and/or cables and hopefully get a lucky combo that works.


The chipsets in cables like Ruipro, Phoossno, Cable Matters, etc are a combination of "off-the-shelf" components and certified HDMI 2.1 chipsets from a mfr in Germany, along with some proprietary components as well. Testing with passive, certified cables of the same length is a good idea but I'd still suspect the Denon and it's mickey mouse HDMI 2.1 fix.


----------



## bobof

Ellebob said:


> If the Denon is the problem it should have the problem with passive cables. It is the only practical way to start diagnosing the problem. Or you can randomly change out equipment and/or cables and hopefully get a lucky combo that works.


I agree that passive cable testing is an important and potentially useful step, but it doesn't necessarily follow that if a passive cable works that the Denon/Samsung is not at fault.

It is feasible, for instance, that one implementation is non-compliant in some way that the other, when connected directly doesn't care about or actively anticipates, but the electronics in the active cable don't work with. 

It is also possible that these devices may function ok with some given passive cable, but don't have enough design margin to work with signals in line with what the specs say should be a worst case passing cable.

For your passive cable test to be useful, it probably needs to be a longest possible certified passive cable, not just any old length. And even then, its not conclusive, just a further data point.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bobof said:


> For your passive cable test to be useful, it probably needs to be a longest possible certified passive cable, not just any old length. And even then, its not conclusive, just a further data point.


Yeah I agree with this. Testing with a certified passive cable is something that should be done. But as I mentioned above, the length has to be the same as the cables in question to keep the testing conditions as close to the same as possible.


----------



## bmrowe

Ellebob said:


> Again does the Denon work with passive cables?
> Did I miss the answer?
> I don't doubt that Denon might have issues but the point is how do you tell? The answer is test with passive cables. It reduces the variables.
> 
> I don't know what chipsets these active cables are using but if they are the same chipset that could be the problem even if different brands.
> 
> If the Denon is the problem it should have the problem with passive cables. It is the only practical way to start diagnosing the problem. Or you can randomly change out equipment and/or cables and hopefully get a lucky combo that works.


The denon does work with 3 ft passive cables. But I think that is a moot point. If a device does not work with cables that are certified to be within spec, the device is at fault. This is the purpose of certifying cables in the first place. I'd buy your argument for non certified cables, but that isn't what we are talking about. Those same certified cables work with every other device I've tried, besides the Denon. Feels ignorant to blame the cables at that point.


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## Ellebob

We can argue this all day but I can tell you I work in the field and deal a LOT with HDMI and longer lengths. If you have some type of test equipment then you can test some parameters of the source, display and repeater (receiver). You can also test the cables. I keep up with this thread to see what is new in the HDMI world. I speak from experience that the majority of the time if the system works with short passive cables and not with longer cables it is almost always the cable. That is why I repeat it! I understand your logic but have been there and tried that, so to speak. Just passing on my experience. There is also a good chance that those longer cables you tried are all likely based off the same chipset. We do have the same Murideo test equipment shown in that video mentioned but the 8K version is limited to 40gb. 

I also don't buy that the cables are certified, because they are NOT! Each and every cable does not go through HDMI certification. That would cost a fortune. They sent in a sample(s) and that passed whatever parameters they tested but that doesn't mean every cable off the assembly line passed. Last year we had a 1 meter cable test bad with our 18gbs tester, so not even 8K. Extremely rare for that length!!! We went back to the shop and tested every cable from that manufacturer. All tested fine except 20% of just of only the 1 meter versions failed with the 18gb tester. The company exchanged the whole lot and the new batch tested fine with the old 18gbs tester and the new 8k tester. We found out later the connector on that batch would not seat as deeply as needed so they had to replace a lot of them. I am very skeptical of cables and longer lengths as those are where we see the most problems. On rare occasion a short cable is bad but not common. That is why we test with shorter lengths if a tester isn't available.

I am not familiar with the Denon receiver so I can't comment on it personally. Try a different receiver if possible maybe the new one will work. Unfortunately, options and availability for receivers are limited at the moment. I also know that many of the active cables have a problem with eARC at a distance. There are also HDMI switchers that can do 8K with a second HDMI output that be used for audio but that is quite expensive at the moment. But it is another possible solution which bypasses the receiver and might not have a problem with your current cables. You can also try to find an active cable the uses a different chipset/ architecture or a try signal restorer with a passive cable if your length is not too long. Those are probably your least expensive solutions but are likely more expensive than you hoped.

Cheers


----------



## gbynum

bmrowe said:


> If a device does not work with cables that are certified to be within spec, the device is at fault. This is the purpose of certifying cables in the first place. I'd buy your argument for non certified cables, but that isn't what we are talking about. Those same certified cables work with every other device I've tried, besides the Denon. Feels ignorant to blame the cables at that point.


Yes, BUT. Recall that the "chain" with active cables is

Source output to cable input "HDMI electrical to custom optical encoder" HDMI devices
hybrid cable itself
cable optical to digital HDMI output device to Denon input device (perhaps another step with the unknown "fix" Denon devised and is furnishing)
Denon input decoder (to extract audio, and, if selected, to upscale)
Denon output encoder to remix audio and video to electrical HDMI.

That's a lot of conversions to deal with. Denon needs a "defective" cable, or the cable manufacturer needs a "defective" Denon. I suspect part of the problem is that only SOME of the "same" Denon AVRs and SOME of the "same" cables experience the anomalies.

What I would GUESS is that both the hybrid cable and the Denon meet specifications, but have a difference in how they handle some (perhaps not in the specifications, I'm not intelligent enough to understand them) subtle issues. But I'm just a dumb old guy. It may be that they are at opposite ends of the limits of something?

I'm not in the industry, but would be very comfortable saying ALL want to solve the problems. The issue is that the symptoms are known (sorta) but the problems haven't been identified. It's never easy. Covid has made it harder. I feel that innovative technologies need time to mature. I wish is was easy.


----------



## bmrowe

gbynum said:


> Yes, BUT. Recall that the "chain" with active cables is
> 
> Source output to cable input "HDMI electrical to custom optical encoder" HDMI devices
> hybrid cable itself
> cable optical to digital HDMI output device to Denon input device (perhaps another step with the unknown "fix" Denon devised and is furnishing)
> Denon input decoder (to extract audio, and, if selected, to upscale)
> Denon output encoder to remix audio and video to electrical HDMI.
> 
> That's a lot of conversions to deal with. Denon needs a "defective" cable, or the cable manufacturer needs a "defective" Denon. I suspect part of the problem is that only SOME of the "same" Denon AVRs and SOME of the "same" cables experience the anomalies.
> 
> What I would GUESS is that both the hybrid cable and the Denon meet specifications, but have a difference in how they handle some (perhaps not in the specifications, I'm not intelligent enough to understand them) subtle issues. But I'm just a dumb old guy. It may be that they are at opposite ends of the limits of something?
> 
> I'm not in the industry, but would be very comfortable saying ALL want to solve the problems. The issue is that the symptoms are known (sorta) but the problems haven't been identified. It's never easy. Covid has made it harder. I feel that innovative technologies need time to mature. I wish is was easy.


To your point around everyone wanting to solve the issue, and Denon's credit, they ordered a 15m Cable Matters cable to hook between their test x3700 unit and a Samsung Q90T. Their cable ended up not working, even between just their xbox and Samsung, which was really surprising to me. They tested that same cable between an xbox and LG (LGOLED55E9P) and it worked fine.

I had shared that I had been using a RuiPro with no issues on other devices and they've now ordered the certified 15m RuiPro cable. That should be arriving this week.

Samsung, on the other hand, has been a hot mess to get involved in trying to troubleshoot these incompatibilities. I've spent a few hours on chat and can't seem to progress to a technical group that can have a conversation beyond "are you plugged into HDMI 4?"


----------



## bmrowe

Update on my side. I ordered this cable, mainly out of desperation and to try something different: https://fibercommand.com/collection...ovf-xg-hdmi-multiconnection-fiber-optic-cable

Surprisingly, when run between my x3700 and the QN90A, it sorta works. Its the first fiber cable I've been able to get to do 4k120+HDR in this setup. However, there are some nasty handshake like issues when switching between 4k120+HDR and lower bandwidth stuff. As an example, going from in-game at 4k120 HDR to the xbox dashboard, there is a ~10 second delay for the TV to get picture. Also, in a brief period of testing, I was able to get the TV stuck without signal by changing between games. And then even changing from the xbox input to the directv input, I didn't have picture on directv. If I let it sit long enough (2-3) minutes, eventually it will get picture but that obviously isn't a great experience as a user.

I think its going to go back unless the handshake issues go away, but wanted to mention the experience. I might also try their simpler cable: https://fibercommand.com/products/ultravision-hdmi-fiber-optic-cable mainly because I don't love all the extra stuff they are trying to cram into the cable I got (like ethernet). I do think the replaceable HDMI connectors makes the upgrade path super simple as compared to what we see from the other manufacturers.


----------



## J_One

I am looking at these 3 HDMI cables 6' long to use from PS5 -> 77A80J Oled -> Q950A Sundbar, which one should I get for best picture and audio quality?

All 48gbps HDMI 2.1
Audioquest Ocean 
Audioquest Sky
Fusion8k

Feel free to recomend any other.


----------



## Ratman

Monoprice 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable - HDMI 2.1, [email protected], 48Gbps, CL2 In-Wall Rated, 30AWG, 6ft, Black - Monoprice.com


The Monoprice™ 8K Certified Braided Ultra High Speed HDMI® Cable is the next generation of HDMI cable. Certified by an HDMI authorized testing center, these cables support up to [email protected]/[email protected]



www.monoprice.com


----------



## Ellebob

At 6 feet any decent HDMI cable should work. Don't spend a lot of money. With HDMI it either works or doesn't!!!
HDMI you get the best picture an audio quality if you get a picture and audio. When HDMI has problems you will not get something watchable with lesser quality, you won't get something watchable at all. Spending more will not give you better picture, bass or whatever a cheesy salesman is trying to push.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> Update on my side. I ordered this cable, mainly out of desperation and to try something different: https://fibercommand.com/collection...ovf-xg-hdmi-multiconnection-fiber-optic-cable
> 
> Surprisingly, when run between my x3700 and the QN90A, it sorta works. Its the first fiber cable I've been able to get to do 4k120+HDR in this setup. However, there are some nasty handshake like issues when switching between 4k120+HDR and lower bandwidth stuff. As an example, going from in-game at 4k120 HDR to the xbox dashboard, there is a ~10 second delay for the TV to get picture. Also, in a brief period of testing, I was able to get the TV stuck without signal by changing between games. And then even changing from the xbox input to the directv input, I didn't have picture on directv. If I let it sit long enough (2-3) minutes, eventually it will get picture but that obviously isn't a great experience as a user.
> 
> I think its going to go back unless the handshake issues go away, but wanted to mention the experience. I might also try their simpler cable: https://fibercommand.com/products/ultravision-hdmi-fiber-optic-cable mainly because I don't love all the extra stuff they are trying to cram into the cable I got (like ethernet). I do think the replaceable HDMI connectors makes the upgrade path super simple as compared to what we see from the other manufacturers.


The ethernet channel on HDMI cables, which was never utilized by the device mfrs in the past, is needed for eARC. So if you get a cable without the ethernet channel, you won't get eARC.


----------



## Otto Pylot

J_One said:


> I am looking at these 3 HDMI cables 6' long to use from PS5 -> 77A80J Oled -> Q950A Sundbar, which one should I get for best picture and audio quality?
> 
> All 48gbps HDMI 2.1
> Audioquest Ocean
> Audioquest Sky
> Fusion8k
> 
> Feel free to recomend any other.


AQ cable are way overpriced and overhyped for what you get. There are cables that perform just as well for a lot less money. The cable is just a data pipe. It can not make the pq quality any better that what is being sent by the source and received by the sink. The cable can't make reds any redder or greens any greener. If you don't get sparkles, drop outs, etc you're getting everything that the source is sending.

If all you want to send is the HDMI 2.0 option sets, then any cable that is certified as Premium High Speed HDMI will work just fine. If you want to send the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and have devices that are capable of HDMI 2.1, then any cable that is certified as Ultra High Speed HDMI will work as well. Both cable types will come with a QR label of authenticity that you scan to make sure it is not counterfeit. At 6' just about any well made, High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet should work. If you want a UHS HDMI cable for potential upgrades down the road, the cable will work just fine with the HDMI 2.0 option sets but you won't get any better performance if your devices just have the HDMI 2.0 option sets.


----------



## bmrowe

bmrowe said:


> Update on my side. I ordered this cable, mainly out of desperation and to try something different: https://fibercommand.com/collection...ovf-xg-hdmi-multiconnection-fiber-optic-cable
> 
> Surprisingly, when run between my x3700 and the QN90A, it sorta works. Its the first fiber cable I've been able to get to do 4k120+HDR in this setup. However, there are some nasty handshake like issues when switching between 4k120+HDR and lower bandwidth stuff. As an example, going from in-game at 4k120 HDR to the xbox dashboard, there is a ~10 second delay for the TV to get picture. Also, in a brief period of testing, I was able to get the TV stuck without signal by changing between games. And then even changing from the xbox input to the directv input, I didn't have picture on directv. If I let it sit long enough (2-3) minutes, eventually it will get picture but that obviously isn't a great experience as a user.
> 
> I think its going to go back unless the handshake issues go away, but wanted to mention the experience. I might also try their simpler cable: https://fibercommand.com/products/ultravision-hdmi-fiber-optic-cable mainly because I don't love all the extra stuff they are trying to cram into the cable I got (like ethernet). I do think the replaceable HDMI connectors makes the upgrade path super simple as compared to what we see from the other manufacturers.


The simpler cable (https://fibercommand.com/products/ultravision-hdmi-fiber-optic-cable) works really well on my side. I'd give fiber command a shot if you've got a longer run. The simpler cable only supports ARC, but the cable itself supports up to 1.2TB/s and can support a bunch of other functionality if you need it like a 2nd HDMI run in the opposite direction or cat7 ethernet. That huge bandwidth cap and the removable connectors hopefully makes for an easier upgrade path should something like 8k120 become more mainstream down the line. 

For my scenario - connecting an AV closet to a tv mounted on an opposite wall, its the perfect fit.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> The simpler cable (https://fibercommand.com/products/ultravision-hdmi-fiber-optic-cable) works really well on my side. I'd give fiber command a shot if you've got a longer run. The simpler cable only supports ARC, but the cable itself supports up to 1.2TB/s and can support a bunch of other functionality if you need it like a 2nd HDMI run in the opposite direction or cat7 ethernet. That huge bandwidth cap and the removable connectors hopefully makes for an easier upgrade path should something like 8k120 become more mainstream down the line.
> 
> For my scenario - connecting an AV closet to a tv mounted on an opposite wall, its the perfect fit.


If it works for you that's great. Cables with multiple connectors, permanent or removable, are a bit too gimmicky for me but if it works, and is reliable over time........


----------



## Ellebob

Having removable connectors allows a fiber only cable which is beneficial if you can replace the heads when HDMI comes out with their next version. It should be bandwidth ready.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Having removable connectors allows a fiber only cable which is beneficial if you can replace the heads when HDMI comes out with their next version. It should be bandwidth ready.


Maybe. But longevity is an issue, at least it was with another cable mfr who had removable connector ends. Pure fiber cable also has its limitations in other areas, that's why hybrid fiber is so much in use now. Are these cables hybrid fiber or fiber only?


----------



## bmrowe

Otto Pylot said:


> Maybe. But longevity is an issue, at least it was with another cable mfr who had removable connector ends. Pure fiber cable also has its limitations in other areas, that's why hybrid fiber is so much in use now. Are these cables hybrid fiber or fiber only?


They are 100% fiber. I think the biggest negative is cost, they are about 2-3x the price of the UHS certified hybrid cables of the same length. The connectors are standard MPO so I doubt that will fail as its the same connector used in industrial situations.


----------



## Ellebob

I know there are other cables that use standard fiber which helps future proof somewhat. You can always cut the HDMI heads off it and then put standard fiber connectors on it and use an HDMI fiber extender. I like the idea that this cable is standard fiber and hopefully they will update the HDMI connectors-interface in the future for the next version of HDMI.
I haven't used these cables but I am interested as it might be good solution if it works without any hiccups.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> They are 100% fiber. I think the biggest negative is cost, they are about 2-3x the price of the UHS certified hybrid cables of the same length. The connectors are standard MPO so I doubt that will fail as its the same connector used in industrial situations.


This is what I previously posted about pure fiber vs hybrid fiber:

1. Pure Optical requires an external power supply at the source side to deliver 150mA-160mA for the total cable.
2. Construction cost is usually higher for pure fiber because extra chipsets are needed on the PCBA's for communication. Hybrid fiber uses copper wiring for communication. However, hybrid fiber costs go up as the cable length increases due to the cost of copper wiring.
3. Fiber only will be good for distances around 30m or longer but will probably need fiber extenders. However, this will be for AV-Pro marketing used at system integration, not home use.
4. Zinc-alloy is used at the source and sink side to dissipate heat, which is important for the RTX3080/3090 cards because they can generate a lot of heat. It draws the heat from the inside to the outside. That's why the connectors can feel hot. Both cable types use the same type of construction. Heat testing is usually done at 50ºC for 10 hours. There is also a heat escape blade inside the HDMI housing as well to lower the temperature.

Hybrid fiber draws its power from the Source side (5v/50mA). Sink side (Display) has lower power requirements because it is receiving the signal to the PD (Photonics Detector) so no power draw is needed.

Pure fiber requires 150mA-160mA for the total cable length. Which means the source side needs to deliver 100mA-110mA and the sink side 50mA-55mA to make up the 150mA-160mA requirement.

5v/50mA is the minimum HDMI specification, but some devices are designed to deliver a bit more with some measuring around 150mA. However, that is not consistent across the various mfrs and chip mfrs so an external power source is necessary to guarantee the power requirement.

*Standard Hybrid Fiber*
Source
Driver+VCSEL
Display
Receiver+PD 4 optical fibers for TMDS
7 copper wires for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID
*Standard Pure Fiber*
Source
Driver+VCSEL
DDC Converter Chip
Display
Receiver+PD 4 optical fibers for TMDS
DDC Receiving+PD 4 optical fibers for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID
and HDMI 2.1 options

VCSEL: (Vertical-Cavity Surface-Emitter Laser) - a semiconductor laser diode that emits light from its surface rather than its edge.
DDC: Display Data Channel - a communication channel used in HDMI to implement the E-DDC channel (Enhanced-DDC).
TMDS: Transition-Minimized Differential Signaling - for transmitting high speed serial data.


----------



## bmrowe

To throw another wrench in my investigation, I received a replacement RuiPro cable today. I had a gen 3c, and this one is a gen3c as well. However, it works. I have a replacement phoosno cable coming too, so I wonder if that one will work too. So I've now got two working cables- the fiber command pure fiber cable and the ruipro 3c. Maybe the moral of the story is to try a replacement cable if you have issues with a proven cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> To throw another wrench in my investigation, I received a replacement RuiPro cable today. I had a gen 3c, and this one is a gen3c as well. However, it works. I have a replacement phoosno cable coming too, so I wonder if that one will work too. So I've now got two working cables- the fiber command pure fiber cable and the ruipro 3c. Maybe the moral of the story is to try a replacement cable if you have issues with a proven cable.


Out of curiosity, were the connector ends on the Ruipro replacement cable white?


----------



## bmrowe

Otto Pylot said:


> Out of curiosity, were the connector ends on the Ruipro replacement cable white?


A grayish white - same as my older gen3c cable and what you see on amazon.com. Is there a newer connector they've been shipping?


----------



## Otto Pylot

bmrowe said:


> A grayish white - same as my older gen3c cable and what you see on amazon.com. Is there a newer connector they've been shipping?


Ruipro has released their new, ATC certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cable, with the QR label. It's labeled as Gen 3/C UHS and the connectors are white. The cable body is still teal. I believe it's only being offered so far at 15m lengths.


----------



## eric.exe

Anyone find any working HDMI 1 to 3 foot HDMI 2.1 40Gbps *Extension* cables. Ones with 1 male end and and 1 female end. I have the Zeskit Maya 48Gbps Ultra High Speed 2.1 cable which works great to connect my gaming PC to my OLED TV, but I don't need them connected all the time since the cable has to run across the living room and it's a hassle to replug them in when I do. Previously I had a 3ft/1m Zeskit Cinema Plus 4K Male to Female High Speed HDMI Extension cables on both the PC side and the TV side for easier reconnection, but it was for 18Gbps 4K60 usage. Now I want to do 40Gbps 4K120 but the signal does not work with the extension cables in place. I was hoping they were short and high quality enough to just get by, but no dice. And it looks like Zeskit has not yet released a 48gbps extension cable, so are there any working 48gbps HDMI extension solutions out there? Basically I just need a 1 foot 2.1 dongle.


----------



## Ellebob

Extension cables, wall plates or any other added connections changes capacitance and might cause the signal to no longer be readable by the receiving device. We usually try to avoid those at all cost. So if you have a 10 foot cable with two, 1 foot extensions on each end the capacitance isn't equal to a 12 foot cable it is probably more like a 20 foot cable. That is why any other connections should be avoided whenever possible. It can be the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. I would bet both of those one foot cables tests fine at 48gbs by themselves or when used with a short cable.

Unfortunately, your only reasonable priced solutions are to try different extension cables or a different main cable.


----------



## lawdogx

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro has released their new, ATC certified, hybrid fiber UHS HDMI cable, with the QR label. It's labeled as Gen 3/C UHS and the connectors are white. The cable body is still teal. I believe it's only being offered so far at 15m lengths.


Is this the same as their other Gen 3c 8K optical cables just with the added certification, or has there been some upgrade/improvement?


----------



## Otto Pylot

lawdogx said:


> Is this the same as their other Gen 3c 8K optical cables just with the added certification, or has there been some upgrade/improvement?


I can’t say. But what I can say was that there were some modifications made so that the cable could pass the very rigorous ATC certification process.


----------



## perraup

Hello, I'm looking for a 2.1 HDMI cable that will work at around 20ft. 15ft will do but it would be a bit tricky. 20ft is definitely preferred. I've looked around but I haven't really found anything that fits my requirements. Thanks!

Edit: perhaps something like this?


----------



## squared80

perraup said:


> Hello, I'm looking for a 2.1 HDMI cable that will work at around 20ft. 15ft will do but it would be a bit tricky. 20ft is definitely preferred. I've looked around but I haven't really found anything that fits my requirements. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: perhaps something like this?


What do you mean by 2.1, 48Gbps? 40Gbps?


----------



## Otto Pylot

perraup said:


> Hello, I'm looking for a 2.1 HDMI cable that will work at around 20ft. 15ft will do but it would be a bit tricky. 20ft is definitely preferred. I've looked around but I haven't really found anything that fits my requirements. Thanks!
> 
> Edit: perhaps something like this?


There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable. If you need a cable that has been certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, then look for a Ultra High Speed HDMI cable with the QR label for authenticity. As with all cables, no cable mfr can offer 100% compatibility with all devices and setups. At 20', you might have to consider a certified hybrid fiber cable. If you don't want a certified cable, then there are lots of cable mfrs who claim their cables with work with the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility.


----------



## perraup

squared80 said:


> What do you mean by 2.1, 48Gbps? 40Gbps?


I didn't know there was a 40Gbps option. I'm looking for 48 Gbps.



Otto Pylot said:


> There is no such thing as an "HDMI 2.1" cable. If you need a cable that has been certified for the HDMI 2.1 options sets, then look for a Ultra High Speed HDMI cable with the QR label for authenticity. As with all cables, no cable mfr can offer 100% compatibility with all devices and setups. At 20', you might have to consider a certified hybrid fiber cable. If you don't want a certified cable, then there are lots of cable mfrs who claim their cables with work with the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility.


I understand. Do you have any suggestions for certified hybrid fiber cables or anything that should fit my requirements?


----------



## Otto Pylot

perraup said:


> I didn't know there was a 40Gbps option. I'm looking for 48 Gbps.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand. Do you have any suggestions for certified hybrid fiber cables or anything that should fit my requirements?


For certified, UHS hybrid fiber HDMI cables look at Ruipro, Phoossno, or Cable Matters which are the most popular, depending on the length you need. 40Gbps is not really an option per se. It's the maximum bandwidth that most HDMI 2.1 chipsets and current hybrid fiber cables are designed to handle. There really isn't anything available yet that requires the full 48Gbps bandwidth.

Length, installation, and connected devices are the determining factors in a successful cable installation with the current hybrid fiber cable offerings. Your best bet is to purchase what you think you will need (paying careful attention to the return policies) in terms of cable length and what you want to push, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it to make sure it will meet your current needs and expectations prior to final installation. The only "future proofing" you can do is make sure you have easy access to your cabling if and when the time comes you need to replace/upgrade your cabling (which is a likelyhood as video standards become more demanding). That means if your cabling is in-wall, a conduit is almost a requirement.


----------



## perraup

Otto Pylot said:


> For certified, UHS hybrid fiber HDMI cables look at Ruipro, Phoossno, or Cable Matters which are the most popular, depending on the length you need. 40Gbps is not really an option per se. It's the maximum bandwidth that most HDMI 2.1 chipsets and current hybrid fiber cables are designed to handle. There really isn't anything available yet that requires the full 48Gbps bandwidth.
> 
> Length, installation, and connected devices are the determining factors in a successful cable installation with the current hybrid fiber cable offerings. Your best bet is to purchase what you think you will need (paying careful attention to the return policies) in terms of cable length and what you want to push, lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it to make sure it will meet your current needs and expectations prior to final installation. The only "future proofing" you can do is make sure you have easy access to your cabling if and when the time comes you need to replace/upgrade your cabling (which is a likelyhood as video standards become more demanding). That means if your cabling is in-wall, a conduit is almost a requirement.


This is excellent advice. Thank you!


----------



## squared80

perraup said:


> I didn't know there was a 40Gbps option. I'm looking for 48 Gbps.


It's not really an 'option'. More of a 'ripoff' that most people wouldn't even realize. They market it all as "2.1". It's absolutely ridiculous. Harder to find true 48Gbps right now than ones with less Gbps.


----------



## Otto Pylot

squared80 said:


> It's not really an 'option'. More of a 'ripoff' that most people wouldn't even realize. They market it all as "2.1". It's absolutely ridiculous. Harder to find true 48Gbps right now than ones with less Gbps.


ATC certified UHS HDMI cables are tested and certified following HDMI LA guidelines to handle 48Gbps bandwidth. There isn't any source material that I know of that requires the full 48Gbps bandwidth let alone source/sink HDMI 2.1 chipsets that can handle it correctly so it is difficult for consumers to accurately test. Some of the newer receivers have bandwidth testing options which can give the consumer a good idea of what the bandwidth is, but the reliability and accuracy compared to bandwidth testing equipment, that can cost upwards of a few thousand dollars is questionable.


----------



## errational

Just wanted to pop in and mention I ended up contacting Phoossno directly and ordered a 65FT cable from them. It arrived a week or so ago and works great. No issues at 4k120 or with VRR from my 3080 to my C1.

Definitely recommend!


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> Just wanted to pop in and mention I ended up contacting Phoossno directly and ordered a 65FT cable from them. It arrived a week or so ago and works great. No issues at 4k120 or with VRR from my 3080 to my C1.
> 
> Definitely recommend!


Thanks for reporting back. Phoossno does indeed make a good cable, that's why it is one of the hybrid fiber cables I recommend. I've tested their shorter lengths and they do work as expected. Can't speak to reliability (long term use) but I would think they will hold up for a long time. Their build quality and materials used is very good and they use the same HDMI chipset base that the other two cables I recommend use.


----------



## errational

Otto Pylot said:


> Thanks for reporting back. Phoossno does indeed make a good cable, that's why it is one of the hybrid fiber cables I recommend. I've tested their shorter lengths and they do work as expected. Can't speak to reliability (long term use) but I would think they will hold up for a long time. Their build quality and materials used is very good and they use the same HDMI chipset base that the other two cables I recommend use.


At some point soon this cable will be going into a conduit behind my wall so I'm hopeful it's going to hold up over the long term!


----------



## Spizz

Just saw the LTT latest videos and disappointed that the Monoprice HDMI 2.1 cables didn’t pass. Time to change brands for me as Monoprice was my go to brand.


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> At some point soon this cable will be going into a conduit behind my wall so I'm hopeful it's going to hold up over the long term!


Just be careful with the pull. Do not pull from the connector ends. If you already have a pull string installed in the conduit, tape the string to the body of the cable and secure the connector end from bending back on itself if you have any bends, and keep those bends to a minimum (no sharp 90º bends). I don't know how you have your setup but running a solid core CAT-6 cable, non-CCS/CCA and not a ethernet patch cable will allow you to hardwire your system if you choose to do so. I've done that so as to not depend on WiFi for any of my HT components. I don't remember what Phoossno's warranty is but you might want to go over the details just in case. Good luck!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Spizz said:


> Just saw the LTT latest videos and disappointed that the Monoprice HDMI 2.1 cables didn’t pass. Time to change brands for me as Monoprice was my go to brand.


Don't know who LTT is but did you use the ATC certified UHS HDMI cables? No cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cables will work with all setups and devices. Besides, Monoprice is a reseller, not a cable mfr, so they just use what ever product description who ever they purchase the cables from says.


----------



## alebonau

Spizz said:


> Just saw the LTT latest videos and disappointed that the Monoprice HDMI 2.1 cables didn’t pass. Time to change brands for me as Monoprice was my go to brand.


hi spizz... make sure with monoprice or any other brand you stick with the certified one... ie witg the hdmi.org QR code and can scan to confirm... thats a good start

remember mono price like other brands sell both certified and not...

i have had no issue with their 18gbps certified cable... but not tried anything of theirs thats certified for hdmi 2.1 ie officially certified... am just using the ruipro passive uhs certified and zero issue so far...

I think its still early days for the active uhs... I think ruipro themselves only jsut had theirs certified... and gone through some iterations with their non certified upto now as well


----------



## Otto Pylot

alebonau said:


> hi spizz... make sure with monoprice or any other brand you stick with the certified one... ie witg the hdmi.org QR code and can scan to confirm... thats a good start
> 
> remember mono price like other brands sell both certified and not...
> 
> i have had no issue with their 18gbps certified cable... but not tried anything of theirs thats certified for hdmi 2.1 ie officially certified... am just using the ruipro passive uhs certified and zero issue so far...
> 
> I think its still early days for the active uhs... I think ruipro themselves only jsut had theirs certified... and gone through some iterations with their non certified upto now as well


I too use the passive, certified Ruipro UHS HDMI cables on the OLED system upstairs. I use the passive, certified Zeskit UHS HDMI cables on the QLED system downstairs. Both work as expected. The iterations of the Ruipro hybrid fiber cables I tested some time ago worked just fine as well. I have not tested their new, certified UHS HDMI cable as of yet. I'm waiting for certification of their shorter lengths as I don't need a 15m cable. I've tested Phoossno cables as well and they work as expected.


----------



## Spizz

I agree but the 2.1 one certified by HDMI org with the QR code didn't pass in the vid.


----------



## alebonau

Spizz said:


> I agree but the 2.1 one certified by HDMI org with the QR code didn't pass in the vid.


which one ? the video i found all over the place. really a very hard watch ....


----------



## Otto Pylot

Spizz said:


> I agree but the 2.1 one certified by HDMI org with the QR code didn't pass in the vid.


One, the QR code should be scanned to ensure that it is indeed a valid cable (that's the idea of the QR code) and two, no cable mfr can guarantee that their cables will work 100% of the time with all setups and devices, certified or not. Certification just gives the consumer confidence that the cable was tested and certified by a standardized testing procedure designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA totally independent of who mfr'd the cable. Cable distance can also be a factor for hybrid fiber cables.

I would take any YouTube review with a grain of salt. As far as the mfrs's of ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables go, Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters are the most reliable and "reasonably" priced cables. As with any cable, carefully read the return requirements and lay the cable out on the floor first and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. As far as future proofing your cabling, the ONLY way to really do that is make sure you have easy access to your cabling for replacement or upgrades as needed. If in-wall, that means the use of a 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit with a pull string.


----------



## Ratman

Otto Pylot said:


> I would take any YouTube review with a grain of salt.


----------



## -ch3ck

Apologies, but I don’t see the compiled list of HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps and HDMI 2.1.

Is the list somewhere in this thread? I assumed it would be pinned to the first post, but I can’t find it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> Apologies, but I don’t see the compiled list of HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps and HDMI 2.1.
> 
> Is the list somewhere in this thread? I assumed it would be pinned to the first post, but I can’t find it.


There isn't one. The cables that are recommended by the users here are:

For runs up to about 20', the passive ATC certified UHS HDMI cables from Ruipro or Zeskit are recommended. They are usually a bit stiffer so plan your cable run to minimize sharp bends in the cable and to reduce strain on the HDMI port.

For runs 25' or longer, the active, ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables from Ruipro, Phoossno, and Cable Matters are recommended. They are very flexible but you still need to be a bit mindful of bend radius.

All ATC certified HDMI cables from the above mentioned mfrs', test their cables with the most common HDMI 2.1 devices (panels and consoles) but that does not guarantee 100% compatibility so make sure you have easy access to your cable run, and that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to ensure it meets your needs and expectations.


----------



## Ratman

-ch3ck said:


> Apologies, but I don’t see the compiled list of HDMI cables which properly and reliably support 48 Gbps and HDMI 2.1.
> 
> Is the list somewhere in this thread? I assumed it would be pinned to the first post, but I can’t find it.


Is there a specific length you need?


----------



## -ch3ck

Thank you. I just assumed there was a central location for the list for ease of viewing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> Thank you. I just assumed there was a central location for the list for ease of viewing.


No. Checking back here periodically is probably the best way to stay current and informed. There are lots of blogs, YT videos, reviews etc that make all kinds of claims and promises but I tend to give more credence to the folks here who are actually using the cables on all kinds of setups and devices. The list I posted is a good general place to start.

As asked above, what length are you considering so we can maybe help you narrow down your choices? There are other certified cables on the market but the ones mentioned are the ones that pop up here the most often.


----------



## -ch3ck

Ratman said:


> Is there a specific length you need?


50 ft. Possible 75 ft


----------



## -ch3ck

I’m looking at this 65 footer:

RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 65ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D Slim Flexible Suitable for LG Samsung TCL Sony RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 PS4 Roku (20m)



Amazon.com



I think it suits my needs and a good length.


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## Ratman

-ch3ck said:


> I think it suits my needs and a good length.


At that length, that's about your only option.


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> I’m looking at this 65 footer:
> 
> RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 65ft HDMI 2.1 48Gbps [email protected] [email protected] Dynamic HDR/eARC/HDCP 2.2 / 3D Slim Flexible Suitable for LG Samsung TCL Sony RTX 3080 3090 Xbox Series X PS5 PS4 Roku (20m)
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> I think it suits my needs and a good length.


That particular Ruipro cable is not certified so it's probably their Gen-3C cable. 65' is going to be tough for any cable. The cable has worked for some but not for others so if you purchase it, test it thoroughly. Ruipro does have a 15m ATC certified cable that is now available but you will have to look for it. Amazon will pull whatever they have in stock, and will not fill an order for a specific cable.

How will the cable be installed and is there anyway to shorten the run from the source to the sink?


----------



## -ch3ck

Otto Pylot said:


> That particular Ruipro cable is not certified so it's probably their Gen-3C cable. 65' is going to be tough for any cable. The cable has worked for some but not for others so if you purchase it, test it thoroughly. Ruipro does have a 15m ATC certified cable that is now available but you will have to look for it. Amazon will pull whatever they have in stock, and will not fill an order for a specific cable.
> 
> How will the cable be installed and is there anyway to shorten the run from the source to the sink?


The cable is for my theater room build. I’m storing the receiver and other equipment in a closet adjacent to the room. The cable will be ran in the ceiling from the closet, over another room, and into the theater room to the projector. There’s really no way to shorten the run, unfortunately.

45’ is the longest certified available?


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> The cable is for my theater room build. I’m storing the receiver and other equipment in a closet adjacent to the room. The cable will be ran in the ceiling from the closet, over another room, and into the theater room to the projector. There’s really no way to shorten the run, unfortunately.
> 
> 45’ is the longest certified available?


45' is the longest I've seen but I haven't looked in quite awhile. There are longer ones coming but I'm not sure where they are it in the certification process. Distance is a big factor when it comes to the certification process, at least for the ATC's for HDMI LA.

I would recommend that you install a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit, with pull stings, to easily and safely run your cable. It makes installation and future pulls so much easier. It's also easier to control bend radius, even tho hybrid fiber cables have a very good bend radius.


----------



## -ch3ck

Otto Pylot said:


> 45' is the longest I've seen but I haven't looked in quite awhile. There are longer ones coming but I'm not sure where they are it in the certification process. Distance is a big factor when it comes to the certification process, at least for the ATC's for HDMI LA.
> 
> I would recommend that you install a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit, with pull stings, to easily and safely run your cable. It makes installation and future pulls so much easier. It's also easier to control bend radius, even tho hybrid fiber cables have a very good bend radius.


I was already planning on running some smurf tubing and leaving it empty for future upgrades.

Maybe I should just install a 18GBPS HDMI 2.0 and upgrade later on once the new cables have been certified. 

What cable would you recommend if I went that route?


----------



## StephenBishop

-ch3ck said:


> The cable is for my theater room build. I’m storing the receiver and other equipment in a closet adjacent to the room. The cable will be ran in the ceiling from the closet, over another room, and into the theater room to the projector. There’s really no way to shorten the run, unfortunately.
> 
> 45’ is the longest certified available?





Otto Pylot said:


> 45' is the longest I've seen but I haven't looked in quite awhile. There are longer ones coming but I'm not sure where they are it in the certification process. Distance is a big factor when it comes to the certification process, at least for the ATC's for HDMI LA.
> 
> I would recommend that you install a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit, with pull stings, to easily and safely run your cable. It makes installation and future pulls so much easier. It's also easier to control bend radius, even tho hybrid fiber cables have a very good bend radius.


No, there are longer certified cables available than 45 feet. The longest certified HDMI 2.1 cable that I have seen being offered is the 20 metre (65 feet) certified HDMI 2.1 hybrid fiber cable from Phoossno.

Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps 65ft 20m phoossno HDR eARC HDCP2.2 2.3 Support 4K 120Hz 8K60Hz Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC : Electronics


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> No, there are longer certified cables available than 45 feet. The longest certified HDMI 2.1 cable that I have seen being offered is the 20 metre (65 feet) certified HDMI 2.1 hybrid fiber cable from Phoossno.
> 
> Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps 65ft 20m phoossno HDR eARC HDCP2.2 2.3 Support 4K 120Hz 8K60Hz Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC : Electronics


You are correct. I forgot that Phoossno had a longer cable. Thanks for the reminder.


-ch3ck said:


> I was already planning on running some smurf tubing and leaving it empty for future upgrades.
> 
> Maybe I should just install a 18GBPS HDMI 2.0 and upgrade later on once the new cables have been certified.
> 
> What cable would you recommend if I went that route?


As was just pointed out, I forgot that Phoossno has a cable that is longer than 45'. If you want an ATC certified UHS HDMI (HDMI 2.1 option sets), then check out Phoossno. I've tested them, but not that long, and they do work very well. Even if you don't have HDMI 2.1 devices yet, the Phoossno UHS HDMI cable will certainly work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets.


----------



## -ch3ck

Thanks to you both. This is why I come to this forum. Very helpful…


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## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> Thanks to you both. This is why I come to this forum. Very helpful…


Let us know how the long Phoossno works out for if you go that route.


----------



## gbynum

One thing @Otto Pylot has said before but not mentioned in this discussion is that eARC has troubles at these longer lengths. I'm unsure if the HDMI.org tests include it at full (or any?) bandwidth. If your installation will need that feature, be sure you include it in your tests.


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## Otto Pylot

gbynum said:


> One thing @Otto Pylot has said before but not mentioned in this discussion is that eARC has troubles at these longer lengths. I'm unsure if the HDMI.org tests include it at full (or any?) bandwidth. If your installation will need that feature, be sure you include it in your tests.


eARC is part of the HDMI 2.1 options sets, and if the cable has received the certification, then eARC should have been tested as well. According to HDMI LA, all of the option sets that the cable as been certified for should be listed in the product description and/or specs. That being said, eARC can have issues at the longer lengths even for certified cables depending on connected devices, installation, etc. Good point @gbynum, I should have mentioned it.


----------



## -ch3ck

Otto Pylot said:


> Let us know how the long Phoossno works out for if you go that route.


I will.

I actually have another question, and I probably should have mentioned this earlier. But I will be using an Epson 5050ub projector. Do I even need a 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable? Or is that overkill for this projector? Would I be better off with something else?


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> I will.
> 
> I actually have another question, and I probably should have mentioned this earlier. But I will be using an Epson 5050ub projector. Do I even need a 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 cable? Or is that overkill for this projector? Would I be better off with something else?


The pj is HDMI 2.0 so yes, an UHS HDMI cable would be overkill but the cable would still work just fine if you wanted to have one in place for potential future use. At 65', other than a hybrid fiber cable, you won't find a certified PHS HDMI (Premium High Speed HDMI cable) for the HDMI 2.0 options sets at that length. You will also probably need to use an active (copper only or hybrid fiber) cable given the length just to get the signal from source to sink with no errors. Pj's can be touchy with active cables as well.


----------



## -ch3ck

Otto Pylot said:


> The pj is HDMI 2.0 so yes, an UHS HDMI cable would be overkill but the cable would still work just fine if you wanted to have one in place for potential future use. At 65', other than a hybrid fiber cable, you won't find a certified PHS HDMI (Premium High Speed HDMI cable) for the HDMI 2.0 options sets at that length. You will also probably need to use an active (copper only or hybrid fiber) cable given the length just to get the signal from source to sink with no errors. Pj's can be touchy with active cables as well.


Hmmmm. I feel like this just got much more complicated. Maybe I should check the 2.0 thread for cable suggestions…?


----------



## Otto Pylot

-ch3ck said:


> Hmmmm. I feel like this just got much more complicated. Maybe I should check the 2.0 thread for cable suggestions…?


There's nothing complicated about this. Keep it simple. If your devices are HDMI 2.0 only, then find a cable that indicates in its product description that it is compliant with the HDMI 2.0 option sets. At 65', you will probably need an active cable and that can be either copper only or hybrid fiber. An active, copper only cable will probably be cheaper than an active hybrid fiber cable. Don't worry about certification because you won't find a certified cable for the HDMI 2.0 options sets at that length.

Amazon or Monoprice has a large selection of active cables for the HDMI 2.0 option sets at a length that should work for you. ARC, if you want/need that, might be a problem at that length. Just lay the cable out on the floor and test it thoroughly prior to final installation. Will this be an in-wall installation? I forget if you mentioned that. 

A Premium High Speed HDMI cable (PHS) is a cable that has been certified for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. An Ultra High Speed HDMI cable (UHS) is a cable that has been certified for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Both types of certified cables will come with a QR label on the packaging for authenticity. PHS cables are passive and certifiable up to 25'. I haven't seen any active PHS cables but I haven't looked in a long time. UHS cables can be either passive (up to 16' or so) or active (hybrid fiber) and up to 65' (Phoossno is the only one so far that I've seen at that length).

Bottom line, at 65' look for an active copper-only cable that indicates that it will work for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. And, as always, there are no 100% guarantees so that's why you need to test them out before installation.


----------



## thegongshow

Continue to follow this thread and this forum with great interest. Installed my smurf tube with pull strings a few months ago, drywall installed and painted. Picked up that new Denon S760H at Costco and soon time to start connecting after I get the HDMI cable (speakers still in-route).

My run from AVR to TV is between 20-25' and I was looking at Cable Matters, but they go from 16.5' to about 32' with nothing in between for a hybrid cable and the 32' is a bit much (by about 9'), let alone the price. Looking at the recommendations on cable type and brand here, I'm taking a hard look at Phoossno based on cost and closer to the 20-25' length.

Is this the recommended hybrid cable in terms of phoossno for cert 2.1 that has been talked about here?









Gen1 Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed 48Gbps


Phoossno HDMI 8K Cable is HDMI ATC certified Active Optical fiber Cable(With HDMI Ultra High Speed label). Slim/Portable/Long distance, cable OD only 4.8mm, max length is 30m. Gen1 Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K, support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back...



phoossno.net






Thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

thegongshow said:


> Continue to follow this thread and this forum with great interest. Installed my smurf tube with pull strings a few months ago, drywall installed and painted. Picked up that new Denon S760H at Costco and soon time to start connecting after I get the HDMI cable (speakers still in-route).
> 
> My run from AVR to TV is between 20-25' and I was looking at Cable Matters, but they go from 16.5' to about 32' with nothing in between for a hybrid cable and the 32' is a bit much (by about 9'), let alone the price. Looking at the recommendations on cable type and brand here, I'm taking a hard look at Phoossno based on cost and closer to the 20-25' length.
> 
> Is this the recommended hybrid cable in terms of phoossno for cert 2.1 that has been talked about here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gen1 Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed 48Gbps
> 
> 
> Phoossno HDMI 8K Cable is HDMI ATC certified Active Optical fiber Cable(With HDMI Ultra High Speed label). Slim/Portable/Long distance, cable OD only 4.8mm, max length is 30m. Gen1 Ultra High Speed hdmi Certified 8K, support resolution to [email protected] and [email protected], support HDR and 3D, back...
> 
> 
> 
> phoossno.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Phoossno would probably be your best bet if you want to keep your cable run close to the length you want/need. It's always best to give yourself a bit of a "service loop" at each end so the cable is not strained and you don't have sharp bend radii. As long as the cable has the QR label on the packaging, that you can scan (which you should do,) then the cable is certified and should work. I would still recommend that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation.


----------



## airlung

I am using an 10 yrs old Audioquest Vodka 1M (advertised as HDMI 1.4) and it’s able to pass 4K 120 FPS VRR HDR with Xbox SX perfectly. The only thing that matters with HDMI cable is the length. If yr HDMI cable is short enough, then it can pretty much pass through all the lastest formats as of today! This is confirmed by the marketing manager @ Audioquest..


----------



## Otto Pylot

airlung said:


> I am using an 10 yrs old Audioquest Vodka 1M (advertised as HDMI 1.4) and it’s able to pass 4K 120 FPS VRR HDR with Xbox SX perfectly. The only thing that matters with HDMI cable is the length. If yr HDMI cable is short enough, then it can pretty much pass through all the lastest formats as of today! This is confirmed by the marketing manager @ Audioquest..
> View attachment 3199542


At 1m (3.3') almost any well made cable will work for a lot of the HDMI 1.4-2.0 option sets. That being said, AQ is well known for over-hyping and over-charging for their cables, and anything that a marketing manager, from almost any cable mfr, should be taken with a grain of salt. The comment about eARC is funny because if the cable is advertised as "with ethernet", which is an HDMI option that was never embraced by the industry, that's the channel that is now being used for eARC. Most folks who have HDMI cable issues are not fortunate enough to need only 1m of cable length so most of the issues reported are for the longer lengths , > 3m (10'). However, if the cable works that's all that matters.


----------



## thegongshow

Otto Pylot said:


> Phoossno would probably be your best bet if you want to keep your cable run close to the length you want/need. It's always best to give yourself a bit of a "service loop" at each end so the cable is not strained and you don't have sharp bend radii. As long as the cable has the QR label on the packaging, that you can scan (which you should do,) then the cable is certified and should work. I would still recommend that you lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation.


Sage advise...thanks OP!


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## Otto Pylot

thegongshow said:


> Sage advise...thanks OP!


Similar to measure twice, cut once 😉.


----------



## chili_g

Is there like a summary of findings or at least the testing OP mentioned in the earliest of the (2384!) posts? Looking for a 50fter that reliably does 2.1 at the lowest price of course.


----------



## Ratman

Nope!


----------



## Otto Pylot

chili_g said:


> Is there like a summary of findings or at least the testing OP mentioned in the earliest of the (2384!) posts? Looking for a 50fter that reliably does 2.1 at the lowest price of course.


ARROW-AV is a world-wide distributor of high end AV equipment and was basically taking on this project of verifying cables as a favor to the community. The work they did was very much appreciated by everyone here but it became obvious very quickly that keeping up with all of the mfrs, their claims, and different cable offerings was just too much, time-wise and cost-wise. A big thanks to ARROW-AV for all of their efforts but I doubt if they are going to pick up where they left off with testing the ever-growing market of certified and non-certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.

What you can do is just check back here periodically and see what the actual users here are using for their setups. 

The basic considerations for the HDMI 2.1 option sets at 50' would be a hybrid fiber cable from either Phoossno or Ruipro, which are the ones most often recommended here. Both of those cables are active, ATC certified, and will come with a QR label of authenticity that you should scan none-the-less just to make sure. You can find cheaper cables on Monoprice or Amazon but those are resellers, not mfrs, and they don't always vet the cables they sell from whom ever supplies them for accuracy in the product descriptions, so you take your chances. Just carefully read the return policies.

There are other active, copper only cables that may work but again, you take your chances with HDMI 2.1 at 50'. I would not recommend a passive cable because one, there are no certified passive cables at that length and two, the cable would have a very thick wire gauge, which means loss of flexibility and increased strain on the HDMI ports. Flexibility, bend radius, is important for signal integrity.

The usual caveat with cables is that no cable mfr can give you a 100% guarantee that their cable will work with your devices and cable installation scheme. So you need to pay careful attention as to how you install the cables, and its always best to lay the cable out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it will meet your needs and expectations. And, at 50', you also need to have easy access to your cabling should you need to replace or upgrade your cabling down the road. That is the ONLY way to future proof.

Good, high quality, reliable cables are going to be expensive so if you go cheap, you may get what you pay for.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> The basic considerations for the HDMI 2.1 option sets at 50' would be a hybrid fiber cable from either Phoossno or Ruipro, which are the ones most often recommended here. Both of those cables are active, ATC certified, and will come with a QR label of authenticity that you should scan none-the-less just to make sure. You can find cheaper cables on Monoprice or Amazon but those are resellers, not mfrs, and they don't always vet the cables they sell from whom ever supplies them for accuracy in the product descriptions, so you take your chances. Just carefully read the return policies.


At 50 feet, this one from Cable Matters is also an option:

Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m, Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV : Electronics


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> At 50 feet, this one from Cable Matters is also an option:
> 
> Amazon.com: Cable Matters Certified 8K @60Hz Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 49.2 ft / 15m, Active Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable – Supporting [email protected] [email protected] HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV : Electronics


Ah yes. I forgot that Cable Matters now offers a 50' cable in addition to their initial 33' cable. So, that would be three to pick from. I don't know why I keep forgetting that Cable Matters now has a 50' cable. Must be old age ☹.


----------



## chili_g

Otto Pylot said:


> The basic considerations for the HDMI 2.1 option sets at 50' would be a hybrid fiber cable from either Phoossno or Ruipro, which are the ones most often recommended here. Both of those cables are active, ATC certified, and will come with a QR label of authenticity that you should scan none-the-less just to make sure. You can find cheaper cables on Monoprice or Amazon but those are resellers, not mfrs, and they don't always vet the cables they sell from whom ever supplies them for accuracy in the product descriptions, so you take your chances. Just carefully read the return policies.


Thanks for the background - makes sense - it's the wild west on Amazon. I did see those two mentioned in whatever searching I was able to do, and the Phoossno was cheaper, so I did give it a shot, banking on the Amazon return policy if it didn't work. It was $120 for a 50'ft - about halfway between the Ruipro and the endless list of who-knows-what stuff on Amazon. When I got it I was nervous how thin it is, but it seems to work. Maybe that's because it's fiber and I'm not used to that.
Sadly I've moved on to my next in a never ending series of issues in my setup - with my AVR not outputting nicely to dual monitors now... but I ruled out the cable being a problem.


----------



## alebonau

chili_g said:


> Sadly I've moved on to my next in a never ending series of issues in my setup - with my AVR not outputting nicely to dual monitors now... but I ruled out the cable being a problem.


active hdmi cables and dual monitors through AVRs are a significant challenge .. for most brand avrs they just literally do a dual out ... with not much can do about it ... and then what you get is lowest common denominator... ie if one is capable of 2k and other 4k then will get 2k ! if one can do DV other cant ... you wont get DV...

this is particularly the issue with active cables as they are literally always on... and poling

some solutions ...

if you have a denon or marantz avr/processor. they have option of dual out... or individual selection of mon 1 or mon 2..the individual selection of output gets around the lowest common denominator issue...and stops the hdmi poling happening ... and limiting any potential of interaction between the displays to limit and interfere with the source...

other option is you use a remote power switch... you plug these into your power point and device into them so they can remotely make sure power is actually shut down to your unused display..this also removes possibility of active cables poling...

ofcourse if you want both displays on at same time... none of this will help ! and have to then get same capability or live with lowest common denominator..


----------



## chili_g

alebonau said:


> active hdmi cables and dual monitors through AVRs are a significant challenge .. for most brand avrs they just literally do a dual out ... with not much can do about it ... and then what you get is lowest common denominator... ie if one is capable of 2k and other 4k then will get 2k ! if one can do DV other cant ... you wont get DV...
> 
> this is particularly the issue with active cables as they are literally always on... and poling
> 
> some solutions ...
> 
> if you have a denon or marantz avr/processor. they have option of dual out... or individual selection of mon 1 or mon 2..the individual selection of output gets around the lowest common denominator issue...and stops the hdmi poling happening ... and limiting any potential of interaction between the displays to limit and interfere with the source...
> 
> other option is you use a remote power switch... you plug these into your power point and device into them so they can remotely make sure power is actually shut down to your unused display..this also removes possibility of active cables poling...
> 
> ofcourse if you want both displays on at same time... none of this will help ! and have to then get same capability or live with lowest common denominator..


I hadn't thought about the fact that the cable is active. I actually think both of mine are active, but different. I do actually have a Denon X3500H and what you mention about manually switching is the only way I can get it to work. So while thankfully it is an option, it's another tedious step in another overly complicated setup unfortunately (HTPC/G-sync/HDR/without eARC), but I may have to live with it.
Your comment about power makes me think too... my second TV may be in an 'eco' mode and may not power down completely. I'll test that idea manually (I'll just unplug it) and see if it has any affect on the situation. So many variables it makes my head spin.
Sadly the actual problem I have is only with HDR. 4k/60Hz dual active works just fine. It's only when I send HDR content, I get 'noise' for lack of a better term. Erratic horizontal lines spiking through the picture, reminiscent of old analog noise... but the main picture in the background stays there.... fine except for the handful of lines on top of it. So close... everything works as planned except concurrent auto/dual in HDR. One TV is only HDR10 and the other is HDR10+... maybe that plays in, but I've tried both in "Monitor 1" with the same result.
Some good thoughts though, thanks!


----------



## Otto Pylot

@chili_g FYI, all hybrid fiber cables are active and that’s one of the reasons they are so thin. HDR is either Dolby Vision, HDR10, HDR10+, or HLG. So, if the cable has been tested and certified (which isn’t always necessary) for HDR, you shouldn’t have any issues with any HDR format.


----------



## baronzemo78

Otto Pylot said:


> @chili_g FYI, all hybrid fiber cables are active and that’s one of the reasons they are so thin. HDR is either Dolby Vision, HDR10, HDR10+, or HLG. So, if the cable has been tested and certified (which isn’t always necessary) for HDR, you shouldn’t have any issues with any HDR format.



In this video he talks about a "external powered USB". I need 50' and have heard mixed messages about the RUIPRO usb power frying projectors. Do we need an external USB power to go with these "active" chipsets for 50'?


----------



## Otto Pylot

baronzemo78 said:


> In this video he talks about a "external powered USB". I need 50' and have heard mixed messages about the RUIPRO usb power frying projectors. Do we need an external USB power to go with these "active" chipsets for 50'?


Active cables, be they copper only or hybrid fiber can not fry anything. If a power surge comes down the cable, sure. But the cable itself can not damage HDMI ports. You do not need to use a Power Inserter for active cables to work.

Some active cables come with an optional Power Inserter, which is powered by a USB connection, to supply a more consistent 5v/500mA current to the cable for data transmission. At longer lengths, some projectors have fluctuating current output at the HDMI port that makes it difficult for the chipsets in the cable's connectors to properly maintain signal integrity. Sometimes using a Power Inserter alleviates that problem. At other times, there's no change. The Power Inserters, if properly made, can not damage anything by themselves. The minimum current output of the HDMI ports in 5v/50mA which is sufficient in most cases, even with a bit of fluctuation, but at those long lengths, some cable chipsets can have a difficult time with the fluctuation. Power Inserters just ensure that there is more than enough current for the chipsets. Ruipro just includes the Power Inserter as a courtesy in case they are needed. I've used the PI's in my testing at the source and sink end and saw no difference, or damage, to the HDMI ports or signal integrity. There is no guarantee that they will work if there are signal issues, but they have worked well for some. If you don't need them, don't use them.


----------



## Ratman

As a side note...
Short, passive HDMI cables have also been blamed for causing problems (_frying _components).


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ratman said:


> As a side note...
> Short, passive HDMI cables have also been blamed for causing problems (_frying _components).


Hmmm, hadn't heard that. 😁


----------



## vtsteevo

Otto Pylot said:


> ot fry anything. If a power surge comes down the cable, sure. But the cable itself can not damage HDMI ports. You do not need to use a Power Inserter for active cables to work.





Otto Pylot said:


> Let us know how the long Phoossno works out for if you go that route.


Glad I found this thread and read through this. Just ordered both the Phoossno (65 ft certified) and Ruipro (65 ft uncertified). Hopefully 1 will work to output 4k @ 120hz. Will take me about another week to test out though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

vtsteevo said:


> Glad I found this thread and read through this. Just ordered both the Phoossno (65 ft certified) and Ruipro (65 ft uncertified). Hopefully 1 will work to output 4k @ 120hz. Will take me about another week to test out though.


Both should work but 65' is pretty long. Lay the cables out on the floor and thoroughly test them to make sure they meet your needs and expectations prior to final installation. At 65' is the install going to be in-wall? If so, will you be using a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit with a pull string? Ruipro does offer a certified 50' UHS HDMI cable but it sounds like 50' won't do.


----------



## vtsteevo

@Otto Pylot , conduit is in place with a vinyl pull string, we finished our basement 5 years ago and my cable in there right now is only capable of 1080P. I am a bit worried that the vinyl pull string will snap, but have to give it a try.. And if it does, I have speaker wires in there I could use to pull through. Unfortunately 50 ft is just 3-5 ft short of where I need it to go :-(. It reaches perfectly to my TV on the wall right now, but I am replacing it with a UST projector that will sit in front of the wall. 

I am open to suggestions - is there an alternative that I need to think about?

For testing, is there a specific "torture test" or method for testing? I don't have the latest x-box/PS5, but my neighbor does, so I was going to borrow his to do "the test". I don't have an immediate need for [email protected], but need to "future proof" because I am sure running this cable through won't be the easiest. I have the Onkyo TX-RZ50 coming soon and based on what I've read it has no issues with 4k @120.



Otto Pylot said:


> Both should work but 65' is pretty long. Lay the cables out on the floor and thoroughly test them to make sure they meet your needs and expectations prior to final installation. At 65' is the install going to be in-wall? If so, will you be using a 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit with a pull string? Ruipro does offer a certified 50' UHS HDMI cable but it sounds like 50' won't do.


----------



## Otto Pylot

vtsteevo said:


> @Otto Pylot , conduit is in place with a vinyl pull string, we finished our basement 5 years ago and my cable in there right now is only capable of 1080P. I am a bit worried that the vinyl pull string will snap, but have to give it a try.. And if it does, I have speaker wires in there I could use to pull through. Unfortunately 50 ft is just 3-5 ft short of where I need it to go :-(. It reaches perfectly to my TV on the wall right now, but I am replacing it with a UST projector that will sit in front of the wall.
> 
> I am open to suggestions - is there an alternative that I need to think about?
> 
> For testing, is there a specific "torture test" or method for testing? I don't have the latest x-box/PS5, but my neighbor does, so I was going to borrow his to do "the test". I don't have an immediate need for [email protected], but need to "future proof" because I am sure running this cable through won't be the easiest. I have the Onkyo TX-RZ50 coming soon and based on what I've read it has no issues with 4k @120.


It's good that you have conduit because that puts you way ahead of the installation game as far as future cable pulls go so you are basically "future proofed". You can use anything really for a pull string as long as you are careful about how you attach the string to the cable and pull gently around bends.

How and what you test with is really up to you given the devices you have. If you can borrow an X-box/PS5 and test as many different games and settings you can that's really the ultimate test because that's the reason you have HDMI 2.1 devices. And if the Ruipro cable turns out to not be reliable, you can either try the certified one or try the Phoossno.


----------



## baronzemo78

Otto Pylot said:


> It's good that you have conduit because that puts you way ahead of the installation game as far as future cable pulls go so you are basically "future proofed". You can use anything really for a pull string as long as you are careful about how you attach the string to the cable and pull gently around bends.
> 
> How and what you test with is really up to you given the devices you have. If you can borrow an X-box/PS5 and test as many different games and settings you can that's really the ultimate test because that's the reason you have HDMI 2.1 devices. And if the Ruipro cable turns out to not be reliable, you can either try the certified one or try the Phoossno.


I don't have a 4k120 (48gbs) device right now but I need a 50' cable (run through 2" conduit). I plan on buying a certified cable and testing with just a 4k UHD blu ray prior to running in the conduit. Is there a recommended brand between: Phoossno, RUIPRO and Cable Matters?


----------



## Otto Pylot

baronzemo78 said:


> I don't have a 4k120 (48gbs) device right now but I need a 50' cable (run through 2" conduit). I plan on buying a certified cable and testing with just a 4k UHD blu ray prior to running in the conduit. Is there a recommended brand between: Phoossno, RUIPRO and Cable Matters?


All three are good cables and offer certified cables in your length. Just pick one, pay attention to the return policy in case you need it, and check it out. Lay it out on the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. The fact that you have 2" conduit pretty much future proofs your cabling. Just be careful with the cable pull.


----------



## rlg212

Anyone have any experience with Ethereal HDMI 2.1 cables sold on A4L? It says 48 Gbps…


----------



## Otto Pylot

rlg212 said:


> Anyone have any experience with Ethereal HDMI 2.1 cables sold on A4L? It says 48 Gbps…


Do they advertise the cable with the QR label of authenticity? If not, the cables are not certified and they may or may not work as expected. Which model specifically? Link? The product description hits all the buzz words and the cables look fancy but.......


----------



## rlg212

Otto Pylot said:


> Do they advertise the cable with the QR label of authenticity? If not, the cables are not certified and they may or may not work as expected. Which model specifically? Link? The product description hits all the buzz words and the cables look fancy but.......


Thanks, Otto,

There is no QR label of authenticity.
This model here: ETHEREAL MHX 3.2ft Certified 48GBS High Speed HDMI Cable


----------



## Otto Pylot

rlg212 said:


> Thanks, Otto,
> 
> There is no QR label of authenticity.
> This model here: ETHEREAL MHX 3.2ft Certified 48GBS High Speed HDMI Cable


DPLabs, which is who "certified" the cable is not an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), and as such does not use a QR label on their cables to authenticate the certification. ATC certified cables are tested and certified by a program that was designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA to meet all of the options sets for HDMI 2.0 (Premium High Speed HDMI cables) and HDMI 2.1 (Ultra High Speed HDMI cables). So, any cable that is ATC certified, regardless of the mfr, is tested and certified by a standardized testing and certification program and will come with the QR label.

That's not to say that DPLabs certified cable is not properly certified or won't work, it's just that it is more or less an in-house certification program that very few cable mfrs can or do use.

If all you need is a 1m cable, then I'd look at the certified, Zeskit Lite, passive, Ultra High Speed HDMI cable. However, at 1m, almost any well made High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet should work but I'd stick with a certified cable. At 1m, they aren't that expensive. Just make sure that you pay attention to the bend radius because you don't want any sharp, 90º bends because the passive, certified cables are a bit stiff. Active cables offer much better bend radius (flexibility) but an active cable would be an expensive overkill that you don't really need,


----------



## rlg212

Hey Otto,

Thanks for your informative reply. I will look into Zeskit. I actually bought the cables I linked in my above post but then had some doubts after learning about certified HDMI cables and the QR code (I hadn’t read that before). I guess more than anything I was hoping someone would come in and say “I use Ethereal cables and they’re fine!” and I could stop thinking about it. Just took delivery an a80j and wanted to get it up and running ASAP.
Thanks again.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rlg212 said:


> Hey Otto,
> 
> Thanks for your informative reply. I will look into Zeskit. I actually bought the cables I linked in my above post but then had some doubts after learning about certified HDMI cables and the QR code (I hadn’t read that before). I guess more than anything I was hoping someone would come in and say “I use Ethereal cables and they’re fine!” and I could stop thinking about it. Just took delivery an a80j and wanted to get it up and running ASAP.
> Thanks again.


The Ethereal cable could work just fine. The point is that no cable mfr can offer a 100% guarantee that their cable will work on all systems with all devices. Their product descriptions may lead one to believe that (gold plated connectors, oxygen-free copper, etc) but in reality, HDMI is still somewhat of a crap shoot, especially HDMI 2.1. Even ATC certified cables are no guarantee. The only guarantee that they have is that they are tested and certified following standardized procedures that has been designed and adopted by HDMI.org, the folks who got us in this HDMI mess in the first place. 

As I mentioned, if 1m is your cable length then you should be fine with any well made cable but I like to stick with ATC certified cables when ever I can. I have two home theater systems. One is OLED-based and the other one is QLED-based and I use passive, ATC certified UHS HDMI cables, from different mfrs on both.


----------



## Ellebob

Some facts about DPL labs. I know them personally. Their testing is more stringent than HDMI and their standards about 20% higher in most parameters. DPL buys the cables that they certify from multiple retailers around the country and world. Companies don't submit their cables to them so they aren't given a "prime" sample which often happens when companies submit cables to an HDMI authorized testing center. It does cost manufacturers an additional cost to have their cables certified with DPL and not all manufacturers are willing to spend that extra for a certification very few know about. DPL also works with manufacturers to help improve their HDMI designs for electronics and cables.

That being said, DPL is not certifying cables for HDMI 2.1 parameters yet. They have spent over a million dollars on new equipment for this level of testing. So if something is DPL certified it is only to HDMI 2.0 currently. That will change sometime in 2022. You can always check their website if they are doing 8k yet. But for 4K I would trust something that is DPL certified over HDMI certified and for a passive cable if it passed DPL specs it will probably do 8K no problem as long as the length is not too long.

Ethereal is a stand up company and gives great support. Usually, if they say something works to whatever parameters you can believe them. We use Ethereal (Metra AV) and AVPro (Bullet Train) cables and equipment where I work and knock on wood, we rarely have HDMI problems and when we do it is almost always customer supplied equipment or cables. I am sure a one meter cable will be fine from just about any manufacturer but we have Murideo testers here and I have only ran into short cables that fail in testing only on rare occasion. I am sure the cable will work fine for you.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Ellebob Good information to know about DPL. Thanks. The problem as I see it for DPL is just what you mentioned. They are expensive and very few people are familiar with them for certification like they are for ATC certified cables. Ethereal is a good company, and like most companies, their product descriptions do have to sound very enticing and "the best there is" so there is nothing unique about their marketing strategies. I have personally never used DPL certified cables but have used certified cables from the mfrs most often mentioned on this forum. And they have all performed as expected. I'd love to test some Ethereal cables so maybe that will happen someday. As far as DPL being "better" than ATC cables, especially for passive cables, I don't know. Murideo testing equipment is used by ATC testing centers as well.


----------



## Ellebob

For the most part we only use DPL approved cables where I work, knowing the standards are more stringent than ATC. Doing that solved many problems years ago when trying to get the best value cable. In fact we stopped carrying some cables from a company when they no longer had their cables tested by DPL. In business, if something doesn't work it costs money to diagnose and fix problems. So having equipment that passed more rigorous testing whenever possible is worth it for us. 

I am very surprised ATC uses Murideo equipment. I think they make great field equipment and I love their stuff. However, I would hope for something that can do the full 48gbs for certification, as the Murideo series only tests to 40gbs. I would expect something like Total Phases cable tester which isn't too expensive at about $15,000. Just curious why a 40gb device, maybe it is a realistic bandwidth that is not likely to be exceeded or maybe a chip limitation, I don't know.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> For the most part we only use DPL approved cables where I work, knowing the standards are more stringent than ATC. Doing that solved many problems years ago when trying to get the best value cable. In fact we stopped carrying some cables from a company when they no longer had their cables tested by DPL. In business, if something doesn't work it costs money to diagnose and fix problems. So having equipment that passed more rigorous testing whenever possible is worth it for us.
> 
> I am very surprised ATC uses Murideo equipment. I think they make great field equipment and I love their stuff. However, I would hope for something that can do the full 48gbs for certification, as the Murideo series only tests to 40gbs. I would expect something like Total Phases cable tester which isn't too expensive at about $15,000. Just curious why a 40gb device, maybe it is a realistic bandwidth that is not likely to be exceeded or maybe a chip limitation, I don't know.


Good questions.


----------



## mikeDmachine

I read through the first few pages then skipped to the end of this 121 page thread...
*Is there a post a list of all of the cables that passed testing of 48gbps and all the 2.1 features?*
Specifically looking for 50ft that supported all the great stuff.


Also, I'm a bit of a moron, and I can't wrap my head around *ARC/eARC* when using these longer cables that have a "*SOURCE*" end and "*DISPLAY*" end. Can the cable send a video/audio source in the intended direction, but also send just the audio from ARC/eARC back in the opposite direction when needed?


----------



## Otto Pylot

mikeDmachine said:


> I read through the first few pages then skipped to the end of this 121 page thread...
> *Is there a post a list of all of the cables that passed testing of 48gbps and all the 2.1 features?*
> Specifically looking for 50ft that supported all the great stuff.
> 
> 
> Also, I'm a bit of a moron, and I can't wrap my head around *ARC/eARC* when using these longer cables that have a "*SOURCE*" end and "*DISPLAY*" end. Can the cable send a video/audio source in the intended direction, but also send just the audio from ARC/eARC back in the opposite direction when needed?


Display would be your tv and Source would be where the signal is coming from. The cable is uni-directional in that it goes from Source to Sink because the cables are active which means they need to draw some power from the HDMI port.

ARC is Audio Return Channel. It uses a single HDMI cable to move audio from the Display to a receiver/soundbar. The audio format is limited to basically 5.1 audio and maybe compressed 7.1 depending on the system. eARC (enhanced Audio Return Channel) does the same thing only it is capable of sending HD Audio. Both HDMI connected devices, source and sink, need to be capable of ARC/eARC and the HDMI ports should be labeled. ARC capability does not automatically mean eARC capability and you need to use HDMI cables that have the ethernet channel (most do but check).


----------



## mikeDmachine

Otto Pylot said:


> Display would be your tv and Source would be where the signal is coming from. The cable is uni-directional in that it goes from Source to Sink because the cables are active which means they need to draw some power from the HDMI port.
> 
> ARC is Audio Return Channel. It uses a single HDMI cable to move audio from the Display to a receiver/soundbar. The audio format is limited to basically 5.1 audio and maybe compressed 7.1 depending on the system. eARC (enhanced Audio Return Channel) does the same thing only it is capable of sending HD Audio. Both HDMI connected devices, source and sink, need to be capable of ARC/eARC and the HDMI ports should be labeled. ARC capability does not automatically mean eARC capability and you need to use HDMI cables that have the ethernet channel (most do but check).


Thank you, I think you answered my question.

The direction of the cable "Source" to "Display" is really about which end of the cable is drawing power. 
The cable is still bidirectional and can send audio back from the "Display" to the "Source".


----------



## Archaea

Has anyone done any latency testing on these active HDMI 2.1 cables. Are they adding much video latency?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Archaea said:


> Has anyone done any latency testing on these active HDMI 2.1 cables. Are they adding much video latency?


I posted a reply to your question in the other post. Hopefully someone here who uses one of the cables with one of the new GPUs can answer that.


----------



## StephenBishop

Looks like Ruipro no longer offers certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 hybrid fiber cables? Their longest certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 cable now appears to be a copper 5m cable. Wonder what happened to their certification program.


----------



## bobof

Archaea said:


> Has anyone done any latency testing on these active HDMI 2.1 cables. Are they adding much video latency?


It's pretty much impossible for them to add any significant latency. Significant video latency only happens when you have memories storing video, which hybrid HDMI cables do not have. At most you will be talking about delays through the transceivers in the order of nanoseconds...


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Looks like Ruipro no longer offers certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 hybrid fiber cables? Their longest certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 cable now appears to be a copper 5m cable. Wonder what happened to their certification program.


It could be a supply issue. The ATC certified UHS HDMI hybrid fiber cables have been available since mid-September. I know they weren't going to put any more energy into certifying longer than 5m their passive UHS HDMI cable and concentrate on other lengths for the hybrid fiber cable. I haven't talked to them in awhile so I'll see what I can find.


----------



## Archaea

StephenBishop said:


> Looks like Ruipro no longer offers certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 hybrid fiber cables? Their longest certified ultra high speed hdmi 2.1 cable now appears to be a copper 5m cable. Wonder what happened to their certification program.


What do you mean?








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----------



## Otto Pylot

Amazon controls the inventory on the items they offer. If they are out, they will sometimes take down the ad for the product but that doesn't mean it's not available elsewhere.


----------



## StephenBishop

Archaea said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com: RUIPRO 8K Ultra Certified Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy RUIPRO 8K Ultra Certified Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 50 Feet 48Gbps 8K60Hz 4K120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP2.2/2.3 for Nvidia RTX 3080/3090 Xbox Series X PS5 Denon AV Receiver LG Samsung Sony TV: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 3209720


Odd... couldn't find it when I looked! Thanks for the link.


----------



## rhiannon.eldridge

I'm having issues with Phoossno cables and my JVC DLA-NZ8 hooked into either an RTX 3080 Ti or RTX 3090.

Any HDMI 2.0 mode works but HDMI 2.1 modes fail, even basic ones like 4K 60hz 4:4:4 10 bit 😔

Any suggestions on what I could do? I can't really use a passive cable as the projector is too far from my sources.

I'm hoping that maybe my HDFury VRRoom will help but I dunno 😕


----------



## StephenBishop

rhiannon.eldridge said:


> I'm having issues with Phoossno cables and my JVC DLA-NZ8 hooked into either an RTX 3080 Ti or RTX 3090.
> 
> Any HDMI 2.0 mode works but HDMI 2.1 modes fail, even basic ones like 4K 60hz 4:4:4 10 bit 😔
> 
> Any suggestions on what I could do? I can't really use a passive cable as the projector is too far from my sources.
> 
> I'm hoping that maybe my HDFury VRRoom will help but I dunno 😕


Contact their customer service via the Amazon link. They have been very responsive todate. Also, they have a gen 2 cable. Is this the one you have?


----------



## rhiannon.eldridge

StephenBishop said:


> Contact their customer service via the Amazon link. They have been very responsive todate. Also, they have a gen 2 cable. Is this the one you have?


I'm not sure what generation mine are, how would I go about checking?

And I sent them an email to their Gmail account so hopefully they'll get back to me with some ideas.


----------



## StephenBishop

rhiannon.eldridge said:


> I'm not sure what generation mine are, how would I go about checking?
> 
> And I sent them an email to their Gmail account so hopefully they'll get back to me with some ideas.


This Amazon page shows multiple length options:

https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Op...c0c99e&pd_rd_wg=fpq3n&pd_rd_i=B091DT28SF&th=1

The metric length options (in metres) seem to be the original (or Gen 1) cables and the imperial length options (in feet) seem to be the newer (or Gen 2) cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhiannon.eldridge said:


> I'm having issues with Phoossno cables and my JVC DLA-NZ8 hooked into either an RTX 3080 Ti or RTX 3090.
> 
> Any HDMI 2.0 mode works but HDMI 2.1 modes fail, even basic ones like 4K 60hz 4:4:4 10 bit 😔
> 
> Any suggestions on what I could do? I can't really use a passive cable as the projector is too far from my sources.
> 
> I'm hoping that maybe my HDFury VRRoom will help but I dunno 😕


Is this a newly installed cable or did the issue just start? What is the issue btw?


----------



## rhiannon.eldridge

Otto Pylot said:


> Is this a newly installed cable or did the issue just start? What is the issue btw?


I had it installed for a little while but I've only just got my HDMI 2.1 capable display device which is my projector.

I tried a 3m copper HDMI 2.1 cable and it works perfectly, it's just the Phoossno cable that fails.

I have other HDMI 2.1 sources (PS5 and Series X) so I may try those and see if they work better than my RTX 3000 based PCs.

And by "fail" I mean no picture, out of range error, artifacts, windows refusing to select a display resolution, etc...



StephenBishop said:


> This Amazon page shows multiple length options:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Op...c0c99e&pd_rd_wg=fpq3n&pd_rd_i=B091DT28SF&th=1
> 
> The metric length options (in metres) seem to be the original (or Gen 1) cables and the imperial length options (in feet) seem to be the newer (or Gen 2) cables.


I've emailed them and they've offered to send out a Gen2 cable so hopefully that fixes things. I really hope it doesn't take long to get the new cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

50', correct? I would lay the replacement cable out on the floor when you receive it and thoroughly test prior to installation.

Are you fishing thru a conduit and have a single cable, source to sink connection no wall plates, etc in-between? Your other choices for that length would be Ruipro or Cable Matters.


----------



## rhiannon.eldridge

Otto Pylot said:


> 50', correct? I would lay the replacement cable out on the floor when you receive it and thoroughly test prior to installation.
> 
> Are you fishing thru a conduit and have a single cable, source to sink connection no wall plates, etc in-between? Your other choices for that length would be Ruipro or Cable Matters.


No conduit, I'm running it out in the open with cable clips holding it to the walls and beams.

There's no wall plates or similar.

And yeah, I'll lay it out and test it without installing it when I get it.


----------



## sddp

Was hoping someone here can help out, 
Wanted to see if Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black 75' would suffice for this?
Technially it's 48GB with [email protected] and want to future proof for sometime. I only need 60' but this is the closest

Any thoughts? And no I do not want to go with the $500+ HDMI cables if this can do the job


Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com 

I have read through tons of threads, the preferred is RUIPRO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 65', but it's not HDMI certified and even though they have a number to call (tried calling and they said there's no number to call or talk to anyone in tech support, concerns me). Rather have a company I can call especially if an issue arises like with Monoprice.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sddp said:


> Was hoping someone here can help out,
> Wanted to see if Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black 75' would suffice for this?
> Technially it's 48GB with [email protected] and want to future proof for sometime. I only need 60' but this is the closest
> 
> Any thoughts? And no I do not want to go with the $500+ HDMI cables if this can do the job
> 
> 
> Monoprice 8K SlimRun AV Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 50ft - AOC 48Gbps Black - Monoprice.com
> 
> I have read through tons of threads, the preferred is RUIPRO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 65', but it's not HDMI certified and even though they have a number to call (tried calling and they said there's no number to call or talk to anyone in tech support, concerns me). Rather have a company I can call especially if an issue arises like with Monoprice.


Keep in mind that Monoprice is a reseller, and as such they don't always check the products they sell for accuracy. What is bothersome is that they advertise the cable as "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable" which is the terminology that HDMI.org has reserved for ATC certified cables, and there is no mention of certification of any kind that I can see in the link above. It may work none the less but you take your chances. 75' is long for any cable so if you're wanting options like eARC you may have issues. As far as future proofing goes, the ONLY way to "future proof" is to have easy access to your cabling. That way it's easier and safer to install/upgrade/repair your cabling should you need to do so. For an in-wall installation, 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit is highly recommended. Single cable, source to sink with nothing in-between.

Ruipro only certifies their 50' UHS HDMI cable at present. Cable Matters only goes up to 50' certification as well I believe. You might want to look at Phoossno as I don't remember if they certify past 50' for their hybrid fiber cables.

Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility or reliability. All that means is that the cable has been tested by standardized certification protocols designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA and the cables will come with a QR label of authenticity. Any cable mfr can submit their cables for an ATC certification if they are willing to pay the cost so you are not stuck with any one cable brand.


----------



## sddp

Otto Pylot said:


> Keep in mind that Monoprice is a reseller, and as such they don't always check the products they sell for accuracy. What is bothersome is that they advertise the cable as "Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable" which is the terminology that HDMI.org has reserved for ATC certified cables, and there is no mention of certification of any kind that I can see in the link above. It may work none the less but you take your chances. 75' is long for any cable so if you're wanting options like eARC you may have issues. As far as future proofing goes, the ONLY way to "future proof" is to have easy access to your cabling. That way it's easier and safer to install/upgrade/repair your cabling should you need to do so. For an in-wall installation, 1.5" - 2.0" flexible conduit is highly recommended. Single cable, source to sink with nothing in-between.
> 
> Ruipro only certifies their 50' UHS HDMI cable at present. Cable Matters only goes up to 50' certification as well I believe. You might want to look at Phoossno as I don't remember if they certify past 50' for their hybrid fiber cables.
> 
> Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility or reliability. All that means is that the cable has been tested by standardized certification protocols designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA and the cables will come with a QR label of authenticity. Any cable mfr can submit their cables for an ATC certification if they are willing to pay the cost so you are not stuck with any one cable brand.



Thank you for the info. Yeah I saw that on both, neither have the HDMI certification at those lengths. The mono is [email protected] and I figured wow that's obviously more than anyone needs (for now) but thought it would do a better job for [email protected] The main thing I like about monoprice is that they have a # you can call and they always answer. I have had many cables from the over the last 5-7 years and yes one went bad and got a replacement in a day or so (they are local to me, minor plus) I have heard from installers recommending Ruipro, but no way to call and no certification at 65'. I am aware that's not a gaurantee of course, but figure if a company spends the $ and time to get it cert'd, it would definitely be worth the time and $. The ther one I found on monoprice is:

Monoprice SlimRun AV 8K Certified Ultra High Speed Active HDMI Cable, HDMI 2.1 , AOC, 20m, 65ft - Monoprice.com 

Any thoughts on that? 

I know about the flexible conduits, etc. Not going through walls but will have to open up a ton of acoustic panels and re-glue cable tubbing, which is the main reason like others I am getting something future proof. I am coming from a Wireless projector, so never had to deal with HDMI cable issues above 1m. I know once you go past 3M, it's a whole different ball game and AOC is the way to go.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sddp said:


> Thank you for the info. Yeah I saw that on both, neither have the HDMI certification at those lengths. The mono is [email protected] and I figured wow that's obviously more than anyone needs (for now) but thought it would do a better job for [email protected] The main thing I like about monoprice is that they have a # you can call and they always answer. I have had many cables from the over the last 5-7 years and yes one went bad and got a replacement in a day or so (they are local to me, minor plus) I have heard from installers recommending Ruipro, but no way to call and no certification at 65'. I am aware that's not a gaurantee of course, but figure if a company spends the $ and time to get it cert'd, it would definitely be worth the time and $. The ther one I found on monoprice is:
> 
> Monoprice SlimRun AV 8K Certified Ultra High Speed Active HDMI Cable, HDMI 2.1 , AOC, 20m, 65ft - Monoprice.com
> 
> Any thoughts on that?
> 
> I know about the flexible conduits, etc. Not going through walls but will have to open up a ton of acoustic panels and re-glue cable tubbing, which is the main reason like others I am getting something future proof. I am coming from a Wireless projector, so never had to deal with HDMI cable issues above 1m. I know once you go past 3M, it's a whole different ball game and AOC is the way to go.


Hmmm, $90 for a 65' ATC certified UHS cable, that is out of stock until March, is not a bad deal if true and real. All you can do is try but really test it out before you install. I've seen those IIIP cables sold elsewhere as well so whomever the supplier is, they have multiple outlets. Reports are varied.

Ruipro does have pretty good customer support and you should be able to get a message to them via their website. Ruipro is working on certifying other lengths so we'll see what they come up with next year. But that doesn't help you now.

I would seriously consider a way to install a conduit, with pull strings, if you can. Cables can't really be future-proofed, only the installation scheme so plan accordingly.


----------



## StephenBishop

Otto Pylot said:


> You might want to look at Phoossno as I don't remember if they certify past 50' for their hybrid fiber cables.


Phoossno has a 65' certified UHS cable:

Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps 50ft 15m phoossno HDR eARC HDCP2.2 2.3 Support 4K 120Hz 8K60Hz Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC : Electronics


----------



## Otto Pylot

StephenBishop said:


> Phoossno has a 65' certified UHS cable:
> 
> Amazon.com: Certified 8K Fiber Optical HDMI 2.1 Cable Ultra High Speed HDMI Cable 48Gbps 50ft 15m phoossno HDR eARC HDCP2.2 2.3 Support 4K 120Hz 8K60Hz Compatible with PS5 Xbox TV Monitor PC : Electronics


There you are 😁 Yep, check out Phoossno.


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## Otto Pylot

@StephenBishop I added the 20m Phoossno cable to my Short List of HDMI Cables post. The Gen2 is a recent addition to the Phoossno line.


----------



## sddp

Otto Pylot said:


> Hmmm, $90 for a 65' ATC certified UHS cable, that is out of stock until March, is not a bad deal if true and real. All you can do is try but really test it out before you install. I've seen those IIIP cables sold elsewhere as well so whomever the supplier is, they have multiple outlets. Reports are varied.
> 
> Ruipro does have pretty good customer support and you should be able to get a message to them via their website. Ruipro is working on certifying other lengths so we'll see what they come up with next year. But that doesn't help you now.
> 
> I would seriously consider a way to install a conduit, with pull strings, if you can. Cables can't really be future-proofed, only the installation scheme so plan accordingly.


Ironically it was available all week and right before I inquired about it here and almost decided to get it but after I posted it here, it's out of stock lol
I'm confident it'll be back in stock in a few days or weeks and not 3 months, from my experience they usually state the worst case scenario for re-stocking.

So looks like from research it's ither the monoprice that's HDMI certified and warrantied for life, I know these can fail after some time since there's an active chip on both ends. 
RUIPRO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 65' mentions in the bullet points that it has a 5 year warranty, but in the Q/A section they mention lifetime and looks like the 50' is certified, but not 65ft?


----------



## Otto Pylot

sddp said:


> Ironically it was available all week and right before I inquired about it here and almost decided to get it but after I posted it here, it's out of stock lol
> I'm confident it'll be back in stock in a few days or weeks and not 3 months, from my experience they usually state the worst case scenario for re-stocking.
> 
> So looks like from research it's ither the monoprice that's HDMI certified and warrantied for life, I know these can fail after some time since there's an active chip on both ends.
> RUIPRO 8K Fiber Optic HDMI Cable 65' mentions in the bullet points that it has a 5 year warranty, but in the Q/A section they mention lifetime and looks like the 50' is certified, but not 65ft?


Ruipro hasn't certified anything yet beyond 50'. And, if you order via Amazon, they control the inventory, so if they have any older cables in stock, you may get that one. There is no way to request a specific cable. So, pay attention to what you order and make sure it's what you want. 

You can always order the Monoprice cable as soon as it is available and check it out. Again, this is why you need to have an installation scheme so that you can easily and safely upgrade your cabling in case of failures, or the need to upgrade to a higher certification if, and when, it is needed.


----------



## rhiannon.eldridge

Happy to report that my new Phoossno 15m Gen2 cable works perfectly with my RTX 3090 and RTX 3080 Ti and JVC DLA-NZ8!

Brilliant customer service from them, the replacement arrived quite quickly and it worked first go. Was able to do 8K 60Hz RGB 12 bit to my JVC projector with no issues.


----------



## Otto Pylot

rhiannon.eldridge said:


> Happy to report that my new Phoossno 15m Gen2 cable works perfectly with my RTX 3090 and RTX 3080 Ti and JVC DLA-NZ8!
> 
> Brilliant customer service from them, the replacement arrived quite quickly and it worked first go. Was able to do 8K 60Hz RGB 12 bit to my JVC projector with no issues.


Excellent. Thanks for posting.


----------



## noah katz

4k thread is closed, so asking here - is the chipset overheating issue solved for Ruipro's long (50 ft.) 4k cables?


----------



## Otto Pylot

noah katz said:


> 4k thread is closed, so asking here - is the chipset overheating issue solved for Ruipro's long (50 ft.) 4k cables?


That hasn't been definitively proven either way. I've read reports of other cables besides Ruipro being hot to the touch when connected to 3080/3090 cards. The cable connectors, any cable connector, are designed to transfer heat from the inside of the connector to the outside of the connector so they will feel warm at least to the touch. As to Ruipro specifically, I've tested cables that had very little heat generated and some that seemed warmer than they should be to the touch. Ruipro, like all cable mfrs, are constantly improving their cables with better designs and materials for heat dissipation. However, some of that generated heat may also be attributed to the design of the GPU cards that they are connected to so it's a complex issue.

If you want the Ruipro 50' cable, I'd look at the newly released certified UHS HDMI cable. If not, there are other brands like Phoossno or Cable Matters that may not have that issue depending on what they are connected to and how. Nobody can say with 100% certainty that any cable won't get hot when pushing HDMI 2.1 to it's max over extended periods of time. Ruipro does have an excellent return policy, as do some of the other cables mentioned, so just thoroughly test whomever you get before final installation.


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## noah katz

So the heating issue is more related to the connected equipment than the cable's own chipset?

Mine is for connecting between my pre/pro (pass-through mode, so no heat there) and JVC projector.

As far as Ruipro, it's disturbing that the last 7 reviews for their 4k cable are all 1 star except for one 2-star.

I've read that they have a lifetime warranty, but I can't find any mention of warranty on their website or Amazon.


----------



## Otto Pylot

noah katz said:


> So the heating issue is more related to the connected equipment than the cable's own chipset?
> 
> Mine is for connecting between my pre/pro (pass-through mode, so no heat there) and JVC projector.
> 
> As far as Ruipro, it's disturbing that the last 7 reviews for their 4k cable are all 1 star except for one 2-star.
> 
> I've read that they have a lifetime warranty, but I can't find any mention of warranty on their website or Amazon.


I take reviews, especially ones on Amazon with a grain of salt. 

That being said, Ruipro definitely had some reliability issues when they first introduced their 8k cables a couple of years ago. But, they were the only ones at that time who had "8k" cables that had passed in-house testing for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, and folks were clamoring for 8k cables. They also hadn't tested them against the new HDMI 2.1 GPUs /receivers that hadn't been released yet. Once they, and other mfrs, got their hands on the new GPUs/receivers, issues started appearing. Some were related to the heat generated by the devices and others were related to the connectors not dissipating the heat properly. Whether it was heat actually being generated by the chipsets in the connector, heat being generated by the GPU/receiver and not being properly dissipated or a combination of both was never really proven either way. My opinion at that time, and I told them, was that they released their cables too early before "real world" testing had been done and that's how I got involved with them. I preferred to use the reviews of actual users here than on websites and certainly not the mfr's product description. But, I recommended them at the time because they were the only game in town and folks wanted recommendations. Now, we have multiple cable mfrs to choose from, with ATC certified cables (Ruipro being one) so the consumer has choices if one doesn't work or fails over time. I know of quite a few folks who have been using Ruipro cables for a couple of years now with no issues. Are they the "best" around, probably not, but no one really is. This is why we stress that you need to have easy access to your cabling because hybrid fiber cables are basically electronic devices and, like all electronic devices, they can fail over time.

Ruipro, to their credit, was one of the first mfrs to include power adapters in case they were needed because some devices, it was being reported, had current outputs that would fluctuate just enough that the chipsets, at that time, couldn't compensate and maintain the required constant current. Other cable mfrs soon followed suit. Whether that's still an issue now or not I don't know. I do have a bunch of power adapters that Ruipro sent me with their various cables occupying space in my "cable closet" 😉. 

In fact, I have cables of various iterations from Zeskit, Phoossno, and CableMatters as well as Ruipro is the same closet that have been sent to me for testing. Certified and not certified as well. They all work on both of my HTSs and I have given them to some gamer friends to test on their shiny new HDMI 2.1 devices and the reports have been very favorable for all. I still recommend Ruipro but I also recommend Zeskit, Phoossno, and CableMatters as well as far as ATC certified hybrid fiber cables go. My Short List of Cables for HDMI 2.1 has an ever growing list of certified UHS HDMI cables, active and passive, to help folks get a handle on what's available now and the lengths.


----------



## Eager_Learner

Greetings!,

I recently purchased the LG C1 4K HDTV and have the X800M2 4K Blu-ray player. What certified HDMI cables do I need to take full advantage of these devices? I only need cables that are around 5 ft. long.

Thank you!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Eager_Learner said:


> Greetings!,
> 
> I recently purchased the LG C1 4K HDTV and have the X800M2 4K Blu-ray player. What certified HDMI cables do I need to take full advantage of these devices? I only need cables that are around 5 ft. long.
> 
> Thank you!


Any passive, certified cable will do. And at 5', you could probably get away with a non-certified cable that was well made, but I'd still recommend an ATC (QR label) certified cable. See my post here:  #1  for an idea of what is available. Keep in mind that the cable is only a data pipe. It can not improve pq.


----------



## Eager_Learner

Otto Pylot said:


> Any passive, certified cable will do. And at 5', you could probably get away with a non-certified cable that was well made, but I'd still recommend an ATC (QR label) certified cable. See my post here:  #1  for an idea of what is available. Keep in mind that the cable is only a data pipe. It can not improve pq.


Thank you. Would fiber be better than copper or does it not matter for 5 ft.?
When you say pq, do you mean picture quality?


----------



## Ratman

Eager_Learner said:


> Thank you. Would fiber be better than copper or does it not matter for 5 ft.?
> When you say pq, do you mean picture quality?


No difference at 5'. Copper would be less expensive.
PQ is picture quality.


----------



## Eager_Learner

Ratman said:


> No difference at 5'. Copper would be less expensive.
> PQ is picture quality.


Great! Thank you!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Eager_Learner said:


> Thank you. Would fiber be better than copper or does it not matter for 5 ft.?
> When you say pq, do you mean picture quality?


Using a hybrid fiber or active cable at that length would be an expensive overkill. Just go with the passive cables but be mindful of bend radius. Passive cables have a tendency to be a bit stiff than the active cables (hybrid fiber is an example) so you want to avoid sharp, 90º bends because that could damage the cable over time and put excessive strain on the HDMI port. Performance-wise, if the cables are certified and the same length, there is no difference in performance. PQ will be the same.


----------



## errational

My 20m Phoossno 8K cable suddenly started doing this. Is it likely dead? 
edit: need to remove my PII first


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> My 20m Phoossno 8K cable suddenly started doing this. Is it likely dead?
> edit: need to remove my PII first


Started doing what? And, at 65', how was it installed?


----------



## errational

Otto Pylot said:


> Started doing what? And, at 65', how was it installed?


Flashing and disconnecting.

It's ran through a few walls. Worked fine for months.

I sent a video to Phoossno and they are sending a new cable. I'll update when it arrives.


----------



## gbynum

Otto Pylot said:


> Any passive, certified cable will do. And at 5' ...


And 18 Gbps is all that is needed, so a certified PREMIUM, no need for ULTRA.


----------



## Otto Pylot

errational said:


> Flashing and disconnecting.
> 
> It's ran through a few walls. Worked fine for months.
> 
> I sent a video to Phoossno and they are sending a new cable. I'll update when it arrives.


Did you use a conduit with a pull string? If not, pulling a cable improperly, and around bends can damage the cable, which may not be readily apparent but eventually exhibit issues later on.


----------



## baronzemo78

Just a follow up. I just tried out the RUIPRO 15m HDMI 2.1certified cable (green version) and couldn't get a signal to my JVC RS2100. I am returning the cable Amazon and will try the Phoossno Gen 2 certified cable. Fortunately I have 2" conduit with draw strings so it is easy to switch cables.


----------



## Otto Pylot

baronzemo78 said:


> Just a follow up. I just tried out the RUIPRO 15m HDMI 2.1certified cable (green version) and couldn't get a signal to my JVC RS2100. I am returning the cable Amazon and will try the Phoossno Gen 2 certified cable. Fortunately I have 2" conduit with draw strings so it is easy to switch cables.


Did you scan the QR label on the outside of the packaging to make sure it was legit? Probably, but never hurts to check. Some projectors have issues with active cables so that's why Ruipro included the power inserter. Did you try that and made sure that the cable was installed in the correct orientation?

Phoossno would be a good choice and so would Cable Matters so you have some options to work with. I would lay the cable out of the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation. In fact, that should be done with any cable, especially in-wall installations. That way you can determine if the cable is DOA or damaged during the installation process.


----------



## helvetica bold

Any recommendations on a 6ft slim certified ultra high speed cable. I love the Zeskit Slim but its only available in 5ft. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ratman

helvetica bold said:


> Any recommendations on a 6ft slim certified ultra high speed cable. I love the Zeskit Slim but its only available in 5ft.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any help here?








Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for HDMI 2.1


This is a quick and dirty list of the more common, certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. It is by no means complete so any corrections or additions are more than welcome. Hopefully it will help to narrow down the confusing mess of HDMI cables. Amazon and Monoprice cables were not...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## baronzemo78

Otto Pylot said:


> Did you scan the QR label on the outside of the packaging to make sure it was legit? Probably, but never hurts to check. Some projectors have issues with active cables so that's why Ruipro included the power inserter. Did you try that and made sure that the cable was installed in the correct orientation?
> 
> Phoossno would be a good choice and so would Cable Matters so you have some options to work with. I would lay the cable out of the floor and thoroughly test it prior to installation. In fact, that should be done with any cable, especially in-wall installations. That way you can determine if the cable is DOA or damaged during the installation process.


Yes I scanned the QR code (it checked out) and tried the power inserted at both the source and display end of the cable and neither helped. Just got no signal at the projector.

Does anyone know how long the Phoossno warranty is?


----------



## Ratman

Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for HDMI 2.1


This is a quick and dirty list of the more common, certified HDMI cables for the HDMI 2.1 options sets. It is by no means complete so any corrections or additions are more than welcome. Hopefully it will help to narrow down the confusing mess of HDMI cables. Amazon and Monoprice cables were not...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## G-Rex

WireWorld Stellar 2.1 optical hybrid and Silver Sphere 2.1 hdmi - lifetime warranty
AudioQuest 48 hdmi 2.1 series— lifetime warranty

Plus they work…. 😉


----------



## Otto Pylot

baronzemo78 said:


> Yes I scanned the QR code (it checked out) and tried the power inserted at both the source and display end of the cable and neither helped. Just got no signal at the projector.
> 
> Does anyone know how long the Phoossno warranty is?


You'd have to check the Phoossno site or call them to ask about the warranty. I didn't put any warranty information on my Short List because that can change and sometimes CS will exchange a faulty cable outside of the standard warranty period. 

That is unfortunate that the cable did not work. Did you contact the mfr for help and/or an exchange? The cable product number should be SNAOC21V101A_15 and was it labeled GEN3/C on the cable body or GEN3/C UHS?


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> WireWorld Stellar 2.1 optical hybrid and Silver Sphere 2.1 hdmi - lifetime warranty
> AudioQuest 48 hdmi 2.1 series— lifetime warranty
> 
> Plus they work…. 😉


Most certified cables do but there are cables that miss the certification process and get shipped. No mfr can test/certify every single cable that comes out of production. At least there are lots of options now to choose from. A year ago there weren't.

I'll look into the WireWorld and Silver Sphere and add them to my list.


----------



## StephenBishop

baronzemo78 said:


> Does anyone know how long the Phoossno warranty is?


5 years per their response to a question on the Amazon website.


----------



## Otto Pylot

G-Rex said:


> WireWorld Stellar 2.1 optical hybrid and Silver Sphere 2.1 hdmi - lifetime warranty
> AudioQuest 48 hdmi 2.1 series— lifetime warranty
> 
> Plus they work…. 😉


WireWorld Silver Sphere 8k are passive, non-certified cables for the HDMI 2.0 option sets up to 48Gbps. Sphere are active, DPL certified cables (HDMI 2.0, 18Gbps). Radius 48 are ATC certified, passive cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets. Stellar Fiber Optic 8k are ATC certified, hybrid fiber cables for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.


----------



## 12gauge

Maybe a silly question and apologies if it's already been answered BUT...

Can a one-way HDMI over fiber cable support eARC? I need a 40-50' HDMI cable in the near future and prefer to go with an ultra high speed/48gbps option.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Otto Pylot

12gauge said:


> Maybe a silly question and apologies if it's already been answered BUT...
> 
> Can a one-way HDMI over fiber cable support eARC? I need a 40-50' HDMI cable in the near future and prefer to go with an ultra high speed/48gbps option.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Not sure what you mean by a one-way cable. If it is an active cable, be it copper only or hybrid fiber, there is a one-way orientation (source to sink) that must be followed due to the power draw requirements of an active cable but that's it.

You don't need a hybrid fiber cable, or an active copper only cable for that matter to utilize ARC/eARC. It depends on whether both connected devices, source and sink, support ARC/eARC, not necessarily the cable. Most newer cables now-a-days have been tested, whether they be certified by an ATC or not, for ARC/eARC capability and most of them "pass", at least with in-house testing. As long as the cable indicates "with ethernet" it should, in theory, be able to handle the Audio Return Channel. eARC, which is HD Audio has more stringent requirements and uses the ethernet channel of an HDMI cable.

eARC, like ARC, requires the use of the copper wiring in passive or active cables as well as hybrid fiber cables. Because it uses the copper wiring, it can be subject to distance depending on the design parameters of the cable. 40-50' should be easily doable but that will depend, in part, on the cable you use, whether you want ATC certification or not (which is not a guarantee of reliability or compatibility) and how it is installed.


----------



## 12gauge

Otto Pylot said:


> Not sure what you mean by a one-way cable. If it is an active cable, be it copper only or hybrid fiber, there is a one-way orientation (source to sink) that must be followed due to the power draw requirements of an active cable but that's it.
> 
> You don't need a hybrid fiber cable, or an active copper only cable for that matter to utilize ARC/eARC. It depends on whether both connected devices, source and sink, support ARC/eARC, not necessarily the cable. Most newer cables now-a-days have been tested, whether they be certified by an ATC or not, for ARC/eARC capability and most of them "pass", at least with in-house testing. As long as the cable indicates "with ethernet" it should, in theory, be able to handle the Audio Return Channel. eARC, which is HD Audio has more stringent requirements and uses the ethernet channel of an HDMI cable.
> 
> eARC, like ARC, requires the use of the copper wiring in passive or active cables as well as hybrid fiber cables. Because it uses the copper wiring, it can be subject to distance depending on the design parameters of the cable. 40-50' should be easily doable but that will depend, in part, on the cable you use, whether you want ATC certification or not (which is not a guarantee of reliability or compatibility) and how it is installed.


Thanks this answers my question. I should have been clear that my confusion was over the one way orientation of the cable versus the backward direction of the eARC signal, and I meant specifically on 48gbps cables with the assumption that the end devices both support eARC.

I found the other thread on the topic and will make sure to lay the cable out on the ground and test it thoroughly before running it through my conduit-less attic. At least I have an easily accessible 1 story and have existing wiring that can be used as pull cabling.


----------



## Otto Pylot

12gauge said:


> Thanks this answers my question. I should have been clear that my confusion was over the one way orientation of the cable versus the backward direction of the eARC signal, and I meant specifically on 48gbps cables with the assumption that the end devices both support eARC.
> 
> I found the other thread on the topic and will make sure to lay the cable out on the ground and test it thoroughly before running it through my conduit-less attic. At least I have an easily accessible 1 story and have existing wiring that can be used as pull cabling.


Just make sure you don't pull the cable by the connector ends. They are fairly robust but with a hybrid fiber cables especially, the wiring is a bit thin as well as the fiber wires so you just want to be careful with the connectors and the connected chipsets inside. You can tape the "pull string" to the body of the cable and just re-enforce the connector end so that it doesn't bend backwards on itself or get stuck going around a bend. In the attic space is not that big of a deal as long as you keep it clear of the HVAC ducting and any electrical wires (possible interference). It's going down inside the wall that can be a bit challenging. Good luck.


----------



## sofakng

Anybody have any opinions on the Kabeldirekt 8K Fiber cables? I'm looking for a 10M (30FT) 8K (4K/120, 48Gbps) cable to use with my RTX 3050 (HDMI 2.1) and HDfury VRROOM.

It looks like HDfury sells an 8K fiber cable but unfortunately it's $199 and is also twice as long as I need.


----------



## Otto Pylot

sofakng said:


> Anybody have any opinions on the Kabeldirekt 8K Fiber cables? I'm looking for a 10M (30FT) 8K (4K/120, 48Gbps) cable to use with my RTX 3050 (HDMI 2.1) and HDfury VRROOM.
> 
> It looks like HDfury sells an 8K fiber cable but unfortunately it's $199 and is also twice as long as I need.


Haven't seen much in the way of user feedback on the Kabeldirekt 8k cables. They have been around for awhile. Anything here look good: Short List of HDMI cables for HDMI 2.1


----------



## Eager_Learner

Otto Pylot said:


> Using a hybrid fiber or active cable at that length would be an expensive overkill. Just go with the passive cables but be mindful of bend radius. Passive cables have a tendency to be a bit stiff than the active cables (hybrid fiber is an example) so you want to avoid sharp, 90º bends because that could damage the cable over time and put excessive strain on the HDMI port. Performance-wise, if the cables are certified and the same length, there is no difference in performance. PQ will be the same.


Thank you!


----------



## MRM4

Best HDMI cable on the market now to connect a DirecTV 4k box and a Roku 4k box?


----------



## Ratman

MRM4 said:


> Best HDMI cable on the market now to connect a DirecTV 4k box and a Roku 4k box?


Short List of HDMI cables for HDMI 2.1


----------



## Otto Pylot

MRM4 said:


> Best HDMI cable on the market now to connect a DirecTV 4k box and a Roku 4k box?


The one that works 😉. Sorry, couldn't resist. The cables on my Short List referenced above are a good place to start depending on the length of your cable run and what you want to push. It is not intended to recommend any one specific cable over another. Certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable you purchase will meet your needs and expectations but it's not a bad idea. The cables on the list are for the HDMI 2.1 option sets but the mfrs listed also offer cables for the HDMI 2.0 option sets as well. There are no 100% guarantees that a cable will work for all devices and setups, regardless of the product descriptions or marketing.


----------



## MRM4

Ratman said:


> Short List of HDMI cables for HDMI 2.1


Thanks!


----------



## Kaktus317

HDMI is just a pain in the ... right now.
I got a HDFury Vrroom and used it with a 15m CSL 2.0b fibre cable and had picture issues. I tried a 15m Ruipro and even with the USB power injector I still have the same problems. Hdfury support of course says it could be the cable, but I had the issue on my TV, which is just connected with a 3m copper cable, two times as well (but way less as with the projector). I have the problem with a PS5 and the Shield Pro and I don't have it when connected directly to the source. I could get rid of it once when rebooting the Vrroom, sometimes chaning between EDID settings helped as well. Sometimes, but not always it helps when I have the issue in the Shield menu, that I start a series/movie. What almost never helped was switching the HDMI input or un- and replugging the HDMI cable. I am a little lost in finding the issue. 

Another Vrroom does behave the same way btw. Thus, I think it's more some sort of temporary issue with "everything" together and I have no idea of how to fix it. I am not looking forwar of spending more than 100 euro on a cable and even that I would like to avoid, because I would have to rip out the old one... I also thought that the Ruipro would be "good enough" to test if it really is a cable thing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kaktus317 said:


> HDMI is just a pain in the ... right now.
> I got a HDFury Vrroom and used it with a 15m CSL 2.0b fibre cable and had picture issues. I tried a 15m Ruipro and even with the USB power injector I still have the same problems. Hdfury support of course says it could be the cable, but I had the issue on my TV, which is just connected with a 3m copper cable, two times as well (but way less as with the projector). I have the problem with a PS5 and the Shield Pro and I don't have it when connected directly to the source. I could get rid of it once when rebooting the Vrroom, sometimes chaning between EDID settings helped as well. Sometimes, but not always it helps when I have the issue in the Shield menu, that I start a series/movie. What almost never helped was switching the HDMI input or un- and replugging the HDMI cable. I am a little lost in finding the issue.
> 
> Another Vrroom does behave the same way btw. Thus, I think it's more some sort of temporary issue with "everything" together and I have no idea of how to fix it. I am not looking forwar of spending more than 100 euro on a cable and even that I would like to avoid, because I would have to rip out the old one... I also thought that the Ruipro would be "good enough" to test if it really is a cable thing.


There is an HDFury Vroom thread here, I'd ask there: HDFury Vroom Forum


----------



## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> There is an HDFury Vroom thread here, I'd ask there: HDFury Vroom Forum


I am also just interested if anybody has experience with the Ruipro, csl (also the newer hmdi 2.1) or hdfury cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kaktus317 said:


> I am also just interested if anybody has experience with the Ruipro, csl (also the newer hmdi 2.1) or hdfury cable?


Ruipro, Zeskit, Phoossno, and CablesMatters are the most common cables discussed here. See my Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for an idea of what is being offered by various mfrs for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, if you really need certified cables for HDMI 2.1. Keep in mind that certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setups. Theoretically, any cable that is certified by an ATC (QR label) should perform the same at the same length but that is not always true given hardware and installation variability.


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## Ellebob

Without test equipment the best way to test a system is use all short 2m or less cables. If the system works with short cables then you have a cabling problem, plain and simple. If it doesn't work with short cables then start looking at the equipment.


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## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> Ruipro, Zeskit, Phoossno, and CablesMatters are the most common cables discussed here. See my Short List of Certified HDMI Cables for an idea of what is being offered by various mfrs for the HDMI 2.1 option sets, if you really need certified cables for HDMI 2.1. Keep in mind that certification is not a 100% guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setups. Theoretically, any cable that is certified by an ATC (QR label) should perform the same at the same length but that is not always true given hardware and installation variability.


I saw the list and that's one reason why I am asking. I have heard good things about Ruipro and it's also listed. It is a bit thicker than the CSL and the CSL is much cheaper as well. Even if I decide to exchange the exsisting CSL 2.0b cable to the HDMI 2.1 one. And I am not even sure if that is worth it, since everything is HDMI 2.1 (except the cable) but the projector handles 4:2:0 with only SDR, 4:2:2 with HDR and 4:4:4 just SDR on 120Hz and the CSL 2.0 cable is suppose to do 4:2:0 on 120Hz. Most of the stuff is 60Hz (even though I have a PS5 connected) and I could just wait until more (cheaper) cables are available as well before I change the cable again.



Ellebob said:


> Without test equipment the best way to test a system is use all short 2m or less cables. If the system works with short cables then you have a cabling problem, plain and simple. If it doesn't work with short cables then start looking at the equipment.


The HDFury Vrroom thing is on top of that not easy to narrow down. To be honest: I am still missing the test with short cables, since it is quite some work to get the stuff out of the cabinet with the power cables well in the back. Also, I am not sure what I do if that test shows it's the cable. I need the length and therefore an optical cable. I guess then I would be stuck with buying the HDFury one or rearrange my living room and get shorter copper cables...


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## Ellebob

I work in this industry and chasing down HDMI problems are always a headache. It can be difficult to figure out which device or setting is causing problems. I can tell you that when a device works when plugged in directly to the display does not mean the cable is not the problem!That logic works in the old analog world but not digital.
We have test equipment but sometimes someone is caught without it. Putting all theqth short cables, even though is a pain, is the only way to distinguish between a signaling or equipment problem.
Just passing on advice we have learned the hard way and have spent way more time chasing our tails changing out equipment/cables then I care to admit.


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## Otto Pylot

@Kaktus317 15m cable run is certainly doable so how do you have your cabling installed?


----------



## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> @Kaktus317 15m cable run is certainly doable so how do you have your cabling installed?


The CSL HDMI fibrewire cabel runs with speaker cables in an on-wall-cable-duct from the front of the room to the back where the projector is. The Ruipro for testing just laying on the floor going from the front to the back. As I said: I have/had no issues when directly connected to my AVR (Anthem MRX740) or now for testing to the source (PS5 or Shield Pro). Thus, I assume the cable and the Vrroom together are the problem.


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## Otto Pylot

Ok. If you have a direct connection, no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc between your sources and the tv with no issues then it's not the cable per se but how it works with the Vrroom as you surmised. 

Did you ask in the HDFury forum?


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## Ellebob

I've seen that many times! It doesn't mean the cable is not the problem. Especially when I hear longer than 3m cables whether passive, active or optical. The cable may or may not be the problem. There's a lot more variables here with how digital works. Just letting you know that logic doesn't work in many of these situations. I'll stop emphasizing it. I gave you the method to start diagnosing and I do understand it is a pain in the you know where😤


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## Otto Pylot

Then the OP should try a different brand of cable, same length/type, and see if the problem still exists. If not, then there was probably something in how that particular, active hybrid fiber cable worked with the Vrroom.


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## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> Then the OP should try a different brand of cable, same length/type, and see if the problem still exists. If not, then there was probably something in how that particular, active hybrid fiber cable worked with the Vrroom.


As I said, I already tried two different cables and since I had the issue with the TV (shorts Chopper cable) as well, I thought it might just be the vrroom. But another vrroom has the same issues. Since the TV almost never has the issue, I guess it's the cable. I can choose whatever EDID I like and have the issue (or not). From what I can tell the ruipro at least gave me an image sometimes on the projector at last, the csl cable does not. Hence, I think I have to try other cables (any suggestions under $100?), get the hdfury one or move my equipment.

Edit: yes, I posted this in the vrroom thread as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

If you haven't done so already, look at my list linked above in post #2,483. Under $100 for a 15m quality cable could be very challenging. Projectors in general can be problematic for some, especially with an active cable. One thought is that the HDMI ports on some projectors have a bit more variation in their current output which can cause issues with the active components in the cable. However, that's just a thought, nothing proven. The USB power inserter does alleviate that in some cases by providing a higher mA output to the cable and that's why some cable mfrs supply them as a "in case needed" option. But, you've already tried that so for you, it won't work.

Forgive me for asking but you do have the active cable in the proper orientation, correct?


----------



## Kaktus317

Yes the orientation is correct. As I said it works fine directly in the source(s) as well. It is the combination with the Vrroom which causes the problem. I haven't tried the power adapter at the projector end yet. I could do that as well.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kaktus317 said:


> Yes the orientation is correct. As I said it works fine directly in the source(s) as well. It is the combination with the Vrroom which causes the problem. I haven't tried the power adapter at the projector end yet. I could do that as well.


Just so I'm clear on what you're doing, you have devices that are HDMI 2.0 only but are trying to feed them a signal from the Vrroom that is pushing HDMI 2.1 options? If that's the case, then HDMI is backwards compatible only to the in-common option sets in a lot of instances (which would be HDMI 2.0 options). Or am I confused on your setup and what you are attempting to do? If you can achieve what you want with a shorter cable connected to the Vrroom then it could be a distance issue. Any thoughts from the HDFury forum?


----------



## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> Just so I'm clear on what you're doing, you have devices that are HDMI 2.0 only but are trying to feed them a signal from the Vrroom that is pushing HDMI 2.1 options? If that's the case, then HDMI is backwards compatible only to the in-common option sets in a lot of instances (which would be HDMI 2.0 options). Or am I confused on your setup and what you are attempting to do? If you can achieve what you want with a shorter cable connected to the Vrroom then it could be a distance issue. Any thoughts from the HDFury forum?


No. I have an Anthem MRX740, which does not support HDMI 2.1. Since I have a PS5, TV and projector now, which all support HDMI 2.1 and nobody knows when Anthem will release the HDMI 2.1 Upgrade and how much it will cost, I got the Vrroom. Also, because I was eager to try out LLDV, since my Samsung TV and Epson projector don't support DolbyVision. The HdFury EDID hack for LLDV is suppose to be a "cheap" way of improving that. 

Anyways, I just connected the Shield Pro (not HDMI 2.1) and PS5 to the Vrroom inputs and projector & TV to the outputs (AVR to Audio Out). I am not trying of pushing anything either of the devices are not capeable of. Except DolbyVision of course, which I turned off multiple times for testing as well. Also the picture is fine from time to time with LLDV enabled.

I have not gotten any answer in the HDFury Thread regarding my problem.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Kaktus317 said:


> No. I have an Anthem MRX740, which does not support HDMI 2.1. Since I have a PS5, TV and projector now, which all support HDMI 2.1 and nobody knows when Anthem will release the HDMI 2.1 Upgrade and how much it will cost, I got the Vrroom. Also, because I was eager to try out LLDV, since my Samsung TV and Epson projector don't support DolbyVision. The HdFury EDID hack for LLDV is suppose to be a "cheap" way of improving that.
> 
> Anyways, I just connected the Shield Pro (not HDMI 2.1) and PS5 to the Vrroom inputs and projector & TV to the outputs (AVR to Audio Out). I am not trying of pushing anything either of the devices are not capeable of. Except DolbyVision of course, which I turned off multiple times for testing as well. Also the picture is fine from time to time with LLDV enabled.
> 
> I have not gotten any answer in the HDFury Thread regarding my problem.


I'm not a big fan of hacks because quite often they create more issues than they fix. But, if it works........

Are you a gamer?


----------



## Kaktus317

Otto Pylot said:


> I'm not a big fan of hacks because quite often they create more issues than they fix. But, if it works........
> 
> Are you a gamer?


Well, despite the hack - I needed a way to connect the two sources to two displays with more than hdmi 2.0 for the PS5 and HdFury is suppose to be very good.

And no I am not a hardcore gamer. Haven't played for years until I got the ps5 now.


----------



## Ellebob

There are a ton of questions here and I assume you have tried many of the settings. If you don't use the LLDV hack does it work?
Do you need ARC/eARC? Turn off CEC/ARC/eARC on all devices and VVROOM if you don't.
Have you tried connecting devices one by one. Like PS5, VVROOM and TV? Does it work? Then try projector alone, does it work? If these combos work then try both displays, then add audio.
How is the 740 connected to VVROOM? ARC or audio output? You might have said that earlier but I forget. I would connect audio output unless you absolutely need ARC.
Can you relatively easily move PS5, VVROOM close to TV or PJ and try with short cables if they don't work with just those devices connected with long cables?
EDID settings?


----------



## Kaktus317

Ellebob said:


> There are a ton of questions here and I assume you have tried many of the settings. If you don't use the LLDV hack does it work?
> Do you need ARC/eARC? Turn off CEC/ARC/eARC on all devices and VVROOM if you don't.
> Have you tried connecting devices one by one. Like PS5, VVROOM and TV? Does it work? Then try projector alone, does it work? If these combos work then try both displays, then add audio.
> How is the 740 connected to VVROOM? ARC or audio output? You might have said that earlier but I forget. I would connect audio output unless you absolutely need ARC.
> Can you relatively easily move PS5, VVROOM close to TV or PJ and try with short cables if they don't work with just those devices connected with long cables?
> EDID settings?



No even with LLDV off (EDID just TX1 where the projector is connected, without the extra DV) it does not work.
I don't need ARC/eARC (at least from the projector), but did not switch off the settings, I believe. I will look into that.
Devices one by one - hm. I have connected PS5 and Shield directly to the projector (both works), but have not startet one by one with the Vrroom, I will try that. Only thing I did try was unplugging the TV from power when having the problem (did not help).
The 740 is connected via Audio Out.
The devices are close to the TV, which is connected with a short cable (as are the source devices) and only had the picture issue once or twice. The projector is far away and has the problem almost every time (the last two days I could not get it to work at all with the projector, none of the switching around helped like before - I don't know why). And it's not that easy to get the devices to the projector, that's why I tried everything else first...
-Edid settings: does not matter. Meaning: Use Edid TX0 or Edid Tx1, use of Automix (tested TX0 and TX1) with/without DV enabled. Saving the Edid when it worked and using that Edid later (having issues again). 

Thanks for your ideas!


----------



## Ellebob

Does everything work if the projector is not connected?


----------



## Kaktus317

Ellebob said:


> Does everything work if the projector is not connected?


I would say (except these 1-2 times) verything works even when the projector is connected, but turned off. The picture issue is just with the long cable and projector.


----------



## Ellebob

So me things to try to verify it is the cable. Set the PS5 to 480i and pcm, disconnect TV from VVROOM, does the projector work?
If yes try going up in resolution 480p, 720, 1080, 4k, surround audio, etc. Where does it stop working?
Then try adding TV, repeat process.
If it works at lower resolutions but not higher most likely cable especially if TV works with it.
If it doesn't work at all you either have broken cable or something in VVROOM it is not liking. This is the time to try different cable but to verify take projector down and check with short passive cable.


----------



## Kaktus317

Ellebob said:


> So me things to try to verify it is the cable. Set the PS5 to 480i and pcm, disconnect TV from VVROOM, does the projector work?
> If yes try going up in resolution 480p, 720, 1080, 4k, surround audio, etc. Where does it stop working?
> Then try adding TV, repeat process.
> If it works at lower resolutions but not higher most likely cable especially if TV works with it.
> If it doesn't work at all you either have broken cable or something in VVROOM it is not liking. This is the time to try different cable but to verify take projector down and check with short passive cable.


OMG!
Disconnect everything else. That is it.
With this idea, I was able to figure out that I do not have the issue, when the TV is not connected. I tried two different cables with the TV (one 2.1 hdmi fibre cable, which works fine going to the projector) and I still have the issue. When I turn the projector on (TV off) the image is purple, when I then turn on the TV, the picture is fine with the new handshake. If I turn the TV off, the picture stays fine.

I tried another HDMI input of the TV (non HDMI 2.1, but 2.0) with the same result. When I then turn off the "enhanced hdmi" setting to the hdmi port of the TV, turn the TV off, turn the projector off and back on again the picture is fine on the projector. When I enable the "enhanced hdmi" function on the tv and turn the projector on again, the picture has issues.

As i said, when I had the issue I unplugged the TV and the picture stays purple. That's why i thought having both connections is not the problem. But when I turn the projector off/on and don't have power to the TV anymore, the picture is fine...

EDIT: Since HDFury support is insisting it has to be the fibre cable, eventhough it works fine without the Vroom and with the Vrroom but without the TV connected to it: I connected everything with copper cables and do have the same issue. It's not the fibre cable.


----------



## Ellebob

Lots of questions here and it could still be the fibre cable. Because the fibre works without the vrroom does not mean it will work with every device. How long were the copper cables?

If you change the resolution of the source device to a lower resolution do both devices work? What people don't realize with HDMI is the source controls everything. So in a typical system the source asks the audio and video devices as well as repeaters (receivers, switches, etc.) what their capabilities are and the source sends that.

I'll use the example of a receiver with two hdmi outputs. The source asks the receiver what audio formats it can handle, then it asks each display what formats they can handle. I'll skip audio for now, display one says it is 4K HDR, and display 2 says it is 1080. The source can only send one format so it sends 1080 since both displays can display it. So splitters don't really split the signal in HDMI systems, they still have to communicate with the source as they repeat the signal. 

A device like Vrroom used instead of a standard splitter has to lie to the source. It tells the source it can accept 4K/HDR and that is what the source sends. Vrroom then downscales and converts the signal to display 2 since it can only handle 1080 and passes the 4K HDR signal to display 1. 

Cabling is another matter. An active or optical cable has a chip in it and needs to match impedance of what the Vrroom and other devices connected. Many devices like vrroom have capacitance and timing correction built in and it might not work well with what the chip is trying to accomplish. This is why longer copper, active or optical cables can be problem with one device and not another. As bandwidth increases their is less tolerance for capacitance and timing errors. So start with the lowest resolution and see if it works. If it doesn't work at lower resolutions I would put my money on an EDID issue between all the devices. I haven't used the Vroom but other HDFury products allow custom settings that one could create custom EDIDs to tell each of the devices so they all play nice together.

If you get picture at low resolutions and not higher ones I would suspect the cable. Go basic first. Just use standard resolutions and don't worry about any LLDV conversions and see where the problem happens. There is a lot going on with HDMI and a number of points of failure. The HDFury devices have lots of options and can usually get a combo so everything plays nice together. Good luck!


----------



## Kaktus317

Ellebob said:


> Lots of questions here and it could still be the fibre cable. Because the fibre works without the vrroom does not mean it will work with every device. How long were the copper cables?
> 
> If you change the resolution of the source device to a lower resolution do both devices work? What people don't realize with HDMI is the source controls everything. So in a typical system the source asks the audio and video devices as well as repeaters (receivers, switches, etc.) what their capabilities are and the source sends that.
> 
> I'll use the example of a receiver with two hdmi outputs. The source asks the receiver what audio formats it can handle, then it asks each display what formats they can handle. I'll skip audio for now, display one says it is 4K HDR, and display 2 says it is 1080. The source can only send one format so it sends 1080 since both displays can display it. So splitters don't really split the signal in HDMI systems, they still have to communicate with the source as they repeat the signal.
> 
> A device like Vrroom used instead of a standard splitter has to lie to the source. It tells the source it can accept 4K/HDR and that is what the source sends. Vrroom then downscales and converts the signal to display 2 since it can only handle 1080 and passes the 4K HDR signal to display 1.
> 
> Cabling is another matter. An active or optical cable has a chip in it and needs to match impedance of what the Vrroom and other devices connected. Many devices like vrroom have capacitance and timing correction built in and it might not work well with what the chip is trying to accomplish. This is why longer copper, active or optical cables can be problem with one device and not another. As bandwidth increases their is less tolerance for capacitance and timing errors. So start with the lowest resolution and see if it works. If it doesn't work at lower resolutions I would put my money on an EDID issue between all the devices. I haven't used the Vroom but other HDFury products allow custom settings that one could create custom EDIDs to tell each of the devices so they all play nice together.
> 
> If you get picture at low resolutions and not higher ones I would suspect the cable. Go basic first. Just use standard resolutions and don't worry about any LLDV conversions and see where the problem happens. There is a lot going on with HDMI and a number of points of failure. The HDFury devices have lots of options and can usually get a combo so everything plays nice together. Good luck!


Thank you for your long posts and detailed explaination. Eventhough it does not seem that way, I knew lots of it before. Hence most of the issues are clear to me.
I used 2m (6ft) copper cables and of course turned of the LLDV conversion. I actually tried almost every EDID setting which I could find or was suggested by the HDFury team:

use TX1
use TX0
have a working picture and save that EDID, then load it afterwards
automix (and copy TX0 or TX1 for it, tried both)
HDMI cable issue EDID

So what I could figure out: The TV apparently sets "extended hdmi settings" back to off when disconnecting the HDMI cable (!?), which also explains why some stuff worked sometimes. But even when using copper cables I have this issue: Vrroom Edid set to automix and using copy TX0 (TV is connected to TX0) the TV tells me "this resolution does not work". When setting the EDID to automix but using TX1 (projector is connected to TX1) the HDMI connection is established, but I get the purple picture on the TV.
I have the purple picture on the projector when having extended hdmi turned "on" on the TV. If I have the picture issue I can turn on the tv, the picture gets fine and I can turn the tv off. Picture stays fine. If I take the power from the TV before starting the projector the picture is fine as well.

Yes, I have not tried your resolution solution. I actually got a few new cables (cable matter HDMI 2.1) and connected all of my devices with them. Before non HDMI 2.1 devices where connected with other cables. With this I was able to try 2 other copper cables with the TV and all have the issue. So you could argue it's the cable matter cables, but also the fibre optic cables had this problem. You could argue 3-4 optic cable companies have issues and cable matter and that I should try different copper cables...
Still I think it's strange that different EDIDs behave differently, especially because the projector and the TV have the same basic EDIDs, just that the TV also supports VRR&ALLM.

So yes, I still have no solution for my problem and I am tired of looking for one. HDFury support was no help, in the Hdfury thread nobody answered and I still don't believe it's the optical cable. I could use a smarthome plugs and have the projector & TV "off" when I don't use them. That should fix the problem, but is not the nicest way when using a 600dollar switch which is suppose to "fix all your hdmi problems"...
The only positive thing: I came across the fact that the cable I used only supports 4k60hz and I could switch it out for 4x120hz.


----------



## Minge

I believe I am searching for something that does not exist and 8K 2.1 CERTIFIED cable that is over 50 feet. I really need about 65 feet, I have looked at the gen 3 Ruipro but I can't find any evidence that they have certification over 50 feet. I believe for the price point Ruipro has a good a chance as any of passing for a length over 50 feet but thought I would see if I am missing another brand that has certified cables in longer than 50 feet. Of course whatever I by I am going to give it a week trial before I fish it in the wall that job is a nightmare with my room so not looking forward to that


----------



## Otto Pylot

Minge said:


> I believe I am searching for something that does not exist and 8K 2.1 CERTIFIED cable that is over 50 feet. I really need about 65 feet, I have looked at the gen 3 Ruipro but I can't find any evidence that they have certification over 50 feet. I believe for the price point Ruipro has a good a chance as any of passing for a length over 50 feet but thought I would see if I am missing another brand that has certified cables in longer than 50 feet. Of course whatever I by I am going to give it a week trial before I fish it in the wall that job is a nightmare with my room so not looking forward to that


Look one my list: Short List of HDMI cables to get an idea of which cables have worked well for AVS members. I haven't updated the list in awhile so longer lengths may be offered. Even tho a certified cable >50' is probably still not available. >50' is very challenging for cable mfrs, especially for ATC certification for the HDMI 2.1 option sets (Ultra High Speed HDMI). I would check with the mfrs listed and see what they have. All of the cables listed have worked well but no cable is guaranteed to work 100% of the time will all devices and installations. Certification is not a guarantee of compatibility or usability but it's not a bad idea because at least you know that the cable was tested and certified by an HDMI.org approved testing center (ATC) following a standardized procedure regardless of the cable mfr.

Speaking of installations, if at all possible, the use of a flexible, 1.5'-2.0" conduit is hight recommended. It makes for fishing cables so much easier and safer because chances are, you will be exchanging cables for one reason or another in the future and a conduit, with pull string, make life so much easier 😉. However, if conduit is not possible then just be very careful during the cable pull, especially with hybrid fiber cables because you don't want to damage or strain the connector ends and you don't want any sharp, 90º bends in the cabling either. Hybrid fiber cables are pretty tough, and they do have an excellent bend radius, but you still want to be very careful. Pull from the cable body and not the connector end. Just firmly attach the connector end to the cable body so it can't bend back on itself when going around a corner. Use a single cable, source to sink, run with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between. And use pass through or brush plates for the cable ingress and egress.


----------



## Minge

I reached out to Ruipro and they were very prompt in response to my question of an 8K certified cable over 50 feet and this was the response.

Hello Dave,

Thank you for your interest in our cable.
But sorry that we only have 50ft certified 8K GEN/3 HDMI Cable.

Actually the main difference between the certified and non-certified cable is the EMI performance.
You could try our non-certified 65 foot cable.
We provide lifetime warranty for every customer.
Thank you,



B/Regards 
Thomas
Sales Director
Email: [email protected]
T: +86-755-82591739
Mobile/WhatsApp/Wechat: +86-18938913536

*Leading Optical Fiber A/V transmission*
WWW.RUIPRO.COM

I thought it was kind of Thomas to take the time out of his day to respond. I had to look up what EMI even was and I am not sure this is that big of a deal to worry about certification.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Minge said:


> I reached out to Ruipro and they were very prompt in response to my question of an 8K certified cable over 50 feet and this was the response.
> 
> Hello Dave,
> 
> Thank you for your interest in our cable.
> But sorry that we only have 50ft certified 8K GEN/3 HDMI Cable.
> 
> Actually the main difference between the certified and non-certified cable is the EMI performance.
> You could try our non-certified 65 foot cable.
> We provide lifetime warranty for every customer.
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
> B/Regards
> Thomas
> Sales Director
> Email: [email protected]
> T: +86-755-82591739
> Mobile/WhatsApp/Wechat: +86-18938913536
> 
> *Leading Optical Fiber A/V transmission*
> WWW.RUIPRO.COM
> 
> I thought it was kind of Thomas to take the time out of his day to respond. I had to look up what EMI even was and I am not sure this is that big of a deal to worry about certification.


Thomas is very good and very responsive. I've worked with him many times. HDMI.org changed their "rules" late last year/early this year in that all a mfr needs to do now is meet the EMI specs for HDMI 2.1 and they can call their existing cables that are listed as HDMI 2.0, HDMI 2.1. In fact, as far as HDMI.org is concerned, HDMI 2.0 is "dead".


----------



## MrMonk_TV

Not to question or step on Otto Pylot's valuable and extensive testing and research, but for those who only need passive *Certified 48Gbps Ultra High Speed * HDMI cables in *3.3 feet to 16 feet in length*, _after trying several brands on Amazon_ . . . 
I purchased the* Sniokco 2.1 HDMI *cables in the 6.6 and 10 foot length and they are constructed well and work great as far as I can tell.
I scanned the provided holographic labels and they do come up as Certified. 
*https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098JLTX4W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1*
They seem to compare well with the Zeskit of the same type/lengths and cost much less.
Since it was Amazon . . . I thought try them or return. So far they are working sincce December 2021 where some others I tried were less than stellar.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MrMonk_TV said:


> Not to question or step on Otto Pylot's valuable and extensive testing and research, but for those who only need passive *Certified 48Gbps Ultra High Speed * HDMI cables in *3.3 feet to 16 feet in length*, _after trying several brands on Amazon_ . . .
> I purchased the* Sniokco 2.1 HDMI *cables in the 6.6 and 10 foot length and they are constructed well and work great as far as I can tell.
> I scanned the provided holographic labels and they do come up as Certified.
> *https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B098JLTX4W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1*
> They seem to compare well with the Zeskit of the same type/lengths and cost much less.
> Since it was Amazon . . . I thought try them or return. So far they are working sincce December 2021 where some others I tried were less than stellar.


Not a problem. I'll look into them and maybe add them to my list. The more the better. Thanks for the post.


----------



## Minge

Otto Pylot said:


> Thomas is very good and very responsive. I've worked with him many times. HDMI.org changed their "rules" late last year/early this year in that all a mfr needs to do now is meet the EMI specs for HDMI 2.1 and they can call their existing cables that are listed as HDMI 2.0, HDMI 2.1. In fact, as far as HDMI.org is concerned, HDMI 2.0 is "dead".


Thanks, I find this whole HDMI "works" or "does not" work extremely frustrating. It just simply should not be this hard. The average consumer that does not educate themselves or hire a knowledgeable installer is in for a world of hurt. I have wasted more time and money on cables then I ever dreamed was possible. The best advice is simply "this will not be the last time you change your cable" and "make darn sure it works to your liking before putting it in the wall"


----------



## Otto Pylot

Minge said:


> Thanks, I find this whole HDMI "works" or "does not" work extremely frustrating. It just simply should not be this hard. The average consumer that does not educate themselves or hire a knowledgeable installer is in for a world of hurt. I have wasted more time and money on cables then I ever dreamed was possible. The best advice is simply "this will not be the last time you change your cable" and "make darn sure it works to your liking before putting it in the wall"


I absolutely agree, but unfortunately, that's the reality of HDMI. It should just work, and does in most cases. But given the multitude of devices that connect via HDMI, cable installations, the use of switches, etc etc etc there can be issues. Compounding the problem is the cable mfrs and their marketing/product descriptions of their cables. Every mfr makes their cables sound like it's the best cable in the world and the only cable you'll ever need.

_"The best advice is simply "this will not be the last time you change your cable" and "make darn sure it works to your liking before putting it in the wall"_

This is what we've always advised. Easy access (future proofing) is what we have always recommended because cables will fail or need to be upgraded over time. If in-wall installation is necessary, then the mantra has always been "Conduit, Conduit, Conduit" if at all possible. The other mantra is "Test, Test, Test" prior to any type of installation.


----------



## Ratman

Minge said:


> It just simply should not be this hard.


Take a walk through Memory Lane:








HDMI.org: what a mess


Here is the thread where you can vent your frustration on the terrible state of the HDMI 'one connector' solution With the advent of 4K and HDR, the issues of getting a stable, reliable HDMI connection are so bad, that I fear many average consumers will return their new products and simply...




www.avsforum.com


----------



## Minge

We can spend all this money on fancy projectors and pre-pros and have a 100 buck cable having me want to spit nails...


----------



## MrMonk_TV

Is there a market for all the used or never used older HDMI cables I have from the past 12 years or so? 

I think I must have maybe a dozen or so . . . not even including the cheap ones they often gave with DVD players and other devices.


----------



## Otto Pylot

MrMonk_TV said:


> Is there a market for all the used or never used older HDMI cables I have from the past 12 years or so?
> 
> I think I must have maybe a dozen or so . . . not even including the cheap ones they often gave with DVD players and other devices.


About a month ago I cleaned out my "electronics file cabinet" in the garage and recycled I can't even begin to tell you how many HDMI, USB, RCA cables ad naseum. I've kept the Ruipro, Zeskit, Phoossno, CablesMatters cables and a couple others that were sent to me for testing. I've got so much room now for other "stuff" 😉.


----------



## Minge

I have milk crate FULL of power cords, HDMI and assorted goodies. I even came across some funky ass connector that was used for analog multi-channel audio back in the day. If I dig really deep, I may even find a S video cable they were even worse then HDMI...Not sure why I hang on to all this junk.

Any thoughts on Bullet Train HDMI cables? I have seen them mentioned a few times in this thread but not nearly as much as some of the other brands.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Minge said:


> I have milk crate FULL of power cords, HDMI and assorted goodies. I even came across some funky ass connector that was used for analog multi-channel audio back in the day. If I dig really deep, I may even find a S video cable they were even worse then HDMI...Not sure why I hang on to all this junk.
> 
> Any thoughts on Bullet Train HDMI cables? I have seen them mentioned a few times in this thread but not nearly as much as some of the other brands.


I have seen Bullet Train cables but haven't tested them. If they're not on my Short List then there is a reason, but it may be that no one here has used and posted back on them. I'll give them a looksee again.


----------



## Minge

Thank you!!


----------



## Otto Pylot

Minge said:


> Thank you!!


I just checked my list and Bullet Train is on the list: Short List of HDMI Cables


----------



## john.odonnell01

Otto Pylot said:


> I just checked my list and Bullet Train is on the list: Short List of HDMI Cables


I use Cable matters 15M and it works great. run to TV not projector tho


----------



## Ellebob

I work in this industry and we use bullet train and ethereal all the time. They work well. We put a tester on them before we install and they always test fine. I can't say I have personally tested them with all the new HDMI 2.1 features. Also they are somewhat limited for ARC on longer lengths.

A note from one of the posters several posts back about passive cables. If you do not need longer lengths this is your absolute best solution. Use a good quality passive cables and you a lot less likely to experience problems.

IMHO, HDMI has been the worst standard pushed unto the public for a lot reasons which could be another topic.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> I work in this industry and we use bullet train and ethereal all the time. They work well. We put a tester on them before we install and they always test fine. I can't say I have personally tested them with all the new HDMI 2.1 features. Also they are somewhat limited for ARC on longer lengths.
> 
> A note from one of the posters several posts back about passive cables. If you do not need longer lengths this is your absolute best solution. Use a good quality passive cables and you a lot less likely to experience problems.
> 
> IMHO, HDMI has been the worst standard pushed unto the public for a lot reasons which could be another topic.


I agree. But it's what we're stuck with. 

Passive cables (UHS) are the the way to go without a doubt if your cable runs are under 16'. I've tested both types on my systems and a friend's gaming system without any issues, but not at the longer lengths that some users require. Passive is really the best as long as you pay attention to bend radius and not put any undue strain on the HDMI ports.


----------



## AV 8K

Otto Pylot said:


> Certification is not a guarantee of device compatibility. It is more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by a standardized testing program designed and implemented by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. The cables, be they passive or active, will come with a QR label of authenticity that you can scan for legitimacy. The idea is that if a cable comes with the QR label, regardless of mfr or cable type (passive or active), it has been tested using the same protocols by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center), which are located worldwide.
> 
> The Ruipro 8k cables have worked very well for a lot of folks, but, like any other long hybrid fiber cable, they have had issues with some devices. Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno etc all test their cables using some of the more recent devices (3080/3090 graphic cards, PS5, higher end LG and Sony tv's etc). However, they can't test them against
> everything nor keep up with any updates that those systems have that may affect HDMI processing. Non-certified cables do work, and are tested extensively in-house by their mfrs using some of the same equipment and protocols but certification testing has tighter tolerances. Some mfrs, like Ruipro, Cable Matters, Phoossno, Maxonar, AQ do a good job on in-house testing but nothing is guaranteed because there are just too many variables.
> 
> The most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with nothing in-between. The HD Fury Vertex2's are good devices that work for a lot of folks but as the distance gets longer, and the more "interruptions" you put in the HDMI chain between source and sink (wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc) the more apt you are to have issues. And to complicate issues, hybrid fiber cables appear to start having issues with ARC/eARC at around the 15m mark.
> 
> Cable installation also play a part in connection reliability. That's why we say the ONLY way to future proof connections is to have easy access to your cabling so you can easily and safely install/upgrade your cabling and control bend radius. If your cabling is in-wall, the use of a 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit (think Smurf Tube), with a pull string is almost a requirement. How you perform the cable pull is also critical, especially with the hybrid fiber cables.
> 
> Hopefully the Phoossno cable will work but I'd try it first without the voltage inserter to see if you don't need. The voltage inserter does insert a "break" in the HDMI chain with some saying there is a slight degradation in pq but in my testing, I never saw that. But then again, I wasn't testing at 80' .
> 
> Whichever cable you get, I would definitely lay it out on the floor first and thoroughly test it to make sure it will meet your needs and expectations. If it does "pass" your testing, but develops issues after final installation, then that would point to an installation issue.


Indeed that compatibility is getting complicated among so many sources/sinks/repeaters in the market. To help HDMI signal handshaking, the cable capacitance has 700pf limit in HDMI specs, it is about 15m long in copper cables. Industry standard MPO fiber cable will be future proof installation. it has over 100G bandwidth over 1000ft, keystone coupler for wall plate or panel mount for easy cable management, detachable HDMI, DisplayPort or USB connectors will cover almost all applications. cat6 is convenient if compressed video not a concern. 48G video can be compressed 1000 times at 48M or so to save bandwidth. some latency will occur. Uncompressed fiber solution costs about the same between 4K and 8K. Compressed solution will have big difference since new chipset for 8K compression will cost more. 

eARC signal has 24M data rate currently and 200mV swing. Compare to 100K DDC and 1K CEC data rate, eARC will be the first to show the failures in longer copper cable. DDC/CEC failure usually related to the firmware in source/sink devices as timing tolerance mismatch. 

CABLE ID is new requirement from HDMI and none of installed hybrid cable met the latest spec. All fiber cable has no such a requirement as there is no copper in the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

AV 8K said:


> <snip>
> CABLE ID is new requirement from HDMI and none of installed hybrid cable met the latest spec. All fiber cable has no such a requirement as there is no copper in the cable.


True. But then the cost to the home consumer for a pure fiber cable instead of a hybrid fiber cable can be prohibitive, as there are more electronics involved (that can fail over time as has been in the issue with Celerity cables in the past).


----------



## HomieTheClown

Ok stupid question here but how do you actually test the cable? My tv has a way to test the hdmi cable but it told me I have a faulty cable and suggested changing it. It’s already installed in the wall though…My devices (ps4, WiiU, etc) connected to my receiver will display on the tv just fine usually. Also I’ve noticed that sometimes the tv will tell me to check my source when I’m trying to view hdmi 3 (the AVR receiver). The fix is to turn off receiver and back on. 
Basically not sure if my cable is bad or if my hardware is buggy???

TV Samsung qn900b
Receiver Denon 8500HA
Cable Rudipro Gen 3 15m (forgot the exact specs but it’s the recommended one)

Ty in advance Mr Pylot


----------



## [email protected]

HomieTheClown said:


> Ok stupid question here but how do you actually test the cable? My tv has a way to test the hdmi cable but it told me I have a faulty cable and suggested changing it. It’s already installed in the wall though…My devices (ps4, WiiU, etc) connected to my receiver will display on the tv just fine usually. Also I’ve noticed that sometimes the tv will tell me to check my source when I’m trying to view hdmi 3 (the AVR receiver). The fix is to turn off receiver and back on.
> Basically not sure if my cable is bad or if my hardware is buggy???
> 
> TV Samsung qn900b
> Receiver Denon 8500HA
> Cable Rudipro Gen 3 15m (forgot the exact specs but it’s the recommended one)
> 
> Ty in advance Mr Pylot


From my experience its most likely handshake issues between TV and AVR Arc or eARC, if thats how you have it setup. I can check my hdmi cables with my Denon x3700h if they are good or bad not sure about your AVR. My cable checked out ok with similar problems like yours and I wound up turning my CEC off on my electronics and I now control each device separately instead of eARC, Because it can be buggy. Good luck


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Ok stupid question here but how do you actually test the cable? My tv has a way to test the hdmi cable but it told me I have a faulty cable and suggested changing it. It’s already installed in the wall though…My devices (ps4, WiiU, etc) connected to my receiver will display on the tv just fine usually. Also I’ve noticed that sometimes the tv will tell me to check my source when I’m trying to view hdmi 3 (the AVR receiver). The fix is to turn off receiver and back on.
> Basically not sure if my cable is bad or if my hardware is buggy???
> 
> TV Samsung qn900b
> Receiver Denon 8500HA
> Cable Rudipro Gen 3 15m (forgot the exact specs but it’s the recommended one)
> 
> Ty in advance Mr Pylot


Without sophisticated, expensive testing equipment the only way you can really test the cable is connect it and push
your devices at whatever maximum settings you want to use. If they work to your expectations, then you're good to go. If not, dial them back until you find settings that work reliably. Some newer receivers (Denon) have a cable speed testing feature that is ok but is not anywhere near as accurate as the standalone testing equipment. They can give you an idea of bandwidth but that doesn't necessarily mean that the options that require the higher bandwidths will not have pq/aq issues with the cable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

[email protected] said:


> From my experience its most likely handshake issues between TV and AVR Arc or eARC, if thats how you have it setup. I can check my hdmi cables with my Denon x3700h if they are good or bad not sure about your AVR. My cable checked out ok with similar problems like yours and I wound up turning my CEC off on my electronics and I now control each device separately instead of eARC, Because it can be buggy. Good luck


CEC is one of the most common causes for connectivity (source input switching) and ARC/eARC issues. It shouldn't be but it is for a lot of folks.


----------



## [email protected]

Otto Pylot said:


> CEC is one of the most common causes for connectivity (source input switching) and ARC/eARC issues. It shouldn't be but it is for a lot of folks.


Yes, that's right.


----------



## Ratman

Other than HDCP, CEC, ARC, eARC, distance, bandwidth and interoperability glitches with some devices, HDMI is a wonderful convenience. 🤣


----------



## helvetica bold

Has SVS new HDMI 2.1 cable been posted?
Nice looking cable. 









SVS SoundPath Ultra HDMI Cable


Certified 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1a Cable for TVs, Soundbars, gaming consoles, Blu-ray players and AV Components.




www.svsound.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HomieTheClown

[email protected] said:


> Yes, that's right.


So do people turn off the CEC (or whatever it’s called)? Are we supposed to have arc and Earc at the same time? I’m guessing my denon should have a way to test the cable. Guys last question. I got the rudipro 15M gen-3. Is that just too long to be reliable. Is it a bad brand? Maybe a bad brand for that size?


----------



## AV 8K

Older systems require CEC or DDC to enable/disable ARC/eARC. latest specs using pin14/pin19 common mode to enable/disable ARC/eARC and using differential mode to pass audio date. 
for any systems, if CEC/DDC/ARC/eARC failed to work while using shorter copper cable such as 6ft, it is more likely the firmware issue. if they work in shorter cable but failed in longer cable such as 50ft, then the cable capacitance could be over 700pf.


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## [email protected]

HomieTheClown said:


> So do people turn off the CEC (or whatever it’s called)? Are we supposed to have arc and Earc at the same time? I’m guessing my denon should have a way to test the cable. Guys last question. I got the rudipro 15M gen-3. Is that just too long to be reliable. Is it a bad brand? Maybe a bad brand for that size?


Yes. Because sometimes its a pain in the a#$ when some devices are not compatible with each other and you have hand-shake issues between them. So I just use the remotes for each device separately. For me I turn off the CEC. 👍


----------



## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> So do people turn off the CEC (or whatever it’s called)? Are we supposed to have arc and Earc at the same time? I’m guessing my denon should have a way to test the cable. Guys last question. I got the rudipro 15M gen-3. Is that just too long to be reliable. Is it a bad brand? Maybe a bad brand for that size?


CEC has always been and probably always will be a pain. While it is an option for HDMI, how it is implemented is up to the device mfr. It is a great idea but incompatibilities are very common. On older systems, ARC/CEC were on the same chipset so you either had both enabled or both disabled. Some newer systems do allow for separate control over ARC/CEC so it is possible to disable CEC and still have ARC. eARC is not supposed to be reliant on CEC but that may or may not be the case depending on the device mfr. eARC will only work if your source and sink both have eARC capability. If not, all you can do is ARC, which would be DD or DD+ and in some cases, lossy Atmos. eARC allows for HD audio, which is Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, and lossless Atmos in most cases.

A lot of us have disabled ARC/CEC because CEC issues can affect ARC and it's just a hassle for a lot of folks. If you disable CEC, then you can use a programmable remote, like a Harmony, for single remote control of your system. If ARC gets disabled, then you can use an optical cable from the tv to the receiver for audio from the built-in apps and then pass all of your other devices thru the receiver for audio. There is also a dongle, called the Lindy CEC-less adapter which blocks the CEC calls but still allows for ARC. It works for most but not all folks.

As to the cable question, eARC can start to have issues with some cables at about the 15m-20m distance. I have seen the newest Ruipro cables work just fine for eARC at that distance and I've seen some have issues. The connected devices and how the cable is installed can also play a factor. There are other hybrid fiber cables like Phoossno, CablesMatters etc that also may work so you do have options. But you need to thoroughly test the cable before final installation and then pay attention as to how you install the cable, especially if you have an in-wall installation.

I have disabled ARC/CEC on both of my home theater systems and use Harmony remotes for single remote control of all of my connected devices. I have no need or use for ARC/eARC as I use optical from the panels to the receivers if I want to use the audio from local HDTV stations (which are 5.1 at best) or the rare occasion that I want to play around with the built-in apps of the tv. I use AppleTV 4k's for all of my streaming needs.


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## HomieTheClown

Hey Otto and fellas. Just posting here in case it helps anybody else in the future. I finally just learned the denon has a way to test HDMI cables. I ran it and it immediately came back as a fail. I don’t quite understand because i can play my PS4 through it (ps4 connected to receiver thru one of its hdmi inputs which is then connected to the tv via the right Earc input/outputs). and the video/audio shows up fine on the tv. I ordered that cable over a month ago before I even got my equipment. I stupidly tested the cable with my older equipment (4K tv and old receiver). I know the advice is to test it out before you install in the wall and I thought I was testing it out properly. I didn’t know that people were using their receiver to actually test out the cable or through using specific HDMI cable testing equipment. I just thought if the video and audio is showing up the cable must work lol…Anyway I’m hoping RudiPro will work with me since it’s been a few weeks since I ordered the cable. Once again I ordered a 15m Rudipro Gen 3 so I hear these do work even at this length so I guess I’m having bad luck.
For now I rather not have to install an optical cable and give Earc another try 

_Edit_ once again feeling kind of stupid here. I believe I wasn’t testing the cable correctly so I’m looking into it. I am wondering if the cable is connected to the receiver on both its ends. Since it’s installed in the wall already I was testing it from the receiver to the TV but I have a feeling that is why it failed right away…

_Edit #2_ I posted this in the denon thread but thought I should add it here too. I might be having a hardware issue with the Denon. I ran the HDMI diagnostic test that the denon has. I noticed that option one which is auto test fails every time I run it. It gives me error code “Err: V1-01”. I don’t know if this is affecting my cable issue or not. Time to Google Google Google…


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## Otto Pylot

@HomieTheClown The cable testing options on some of the newer receivers is a nice feature but they are not as accurate as professional testing equipment so I would take the results with a grain of salt. The Ruipro cables, like all other hybrid fiber cables are active so make sure the cable orientation is correct (active cables are uni-directional). If you can receive the video/audio performance from your devices by pushing them to what you want to achieve then the cable is performing as expected. Remember, the cable is just a data pipe. If you get the signal you expect with no sparkles, dropouts, etc. that’s the best you’re gonna get. The cable can not improve PQ. Hopefully you didn’t pull the cable by the connector ends when you installed it in-wall. That’s one of the reasons we stress testing prior to installation. If the cable works as expected then it should work after install. If not, then the cable could have been damaged somehow during the installation.


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## fzst

Hi guys, i just bought a Panasonic UB 820 blu ray player and I'll need a new Hdmi cable for it. Since I didn't have to buy a hdmi cable in quite some time, I wanted to get some advice here for buying one.
I want a quality cable but I don't want to overspend for some possible snakeoil that I won't need. What kind of cable do I need? 
The player will be connected via Hdmi to my Denon 4400h which then feeds into my Panasonic HZ 1000 TV. I will only need 1.5 or 2 m in length since the player will sit in my TV-cabinet.


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## Otto Pylot

At 2m, there are quite a few ATC certified cables that you can purchase if you feel you need a certified cable. You don't need an active, hybrid fiber cable because that would be an overkill at your length. Look for either a passive cable for the Premium High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.0 options) or Ultra High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.1 options). For a blu-ray player, a PHS HDMI cable would probably be fine but if you want UHS HDMI, the cost difference at 2m is not that much. Just keep in mind that passive cables can be a bit stiff so you want to be aware of your bend radius (no sharp, 90º bends) and no strain on the HDMI ports.


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## fzst

Otto Pylot said:


> At 2m, there are quite a few ATC certified cables that you can purchase if you feel you need a certified cable. You don't need an active, hybrid fiber cable because that would be an overkill at your length. Look for either a passive cable for the Premium High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.0 options) or Ultra High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.1 options). For a blu-ray player, a PHS HDMI cable would probably be fine but if you want UHS HDMI, the cost difference at 2m is not that much. Just keep in mind that passive cables can be a bit stiff so you want to be aware of your bend radius (no sharp, 90º bends) and no strain on the HDMI ports.


Thx mate, can you recommand any particular brands?


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## Otto Pylot

fzst said:


> Thx mate, can you recommand any particular brands?


I don't really recommend specific cables anymore because there are just too many variables involved in a successful connection, and everyones's connected devices, needs, cable length/installation are different. What I do have is my short list of HDMI cables: Short List of HDMI cables. It's a listing of HDMI cable mfrs for the HDMI 2.1 option sets that have worked for members of AVS. The mfrs listed also offer cables, certified and not, for the HDMI 2.0 option sets as well.


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## HomieTheClown

Hey Otto,

I was wondering what are people using to test our their 8k cables to see if they actually work. Ruidpro sent me about a second cable because the first one was having issues. I hooked it up to the HDMI tester on the Denon and it passed about 80% percent of the time as an 8k 40gbps (shouldn't it say 48?). I would have liked to see 100% pass rate but I'm guessing that is not realistic with 15m long cord. Anyway I was able to get 4k signal sent from the receiver (Ps4 Source) to the TV but I was wondering how are people actually using their 8k cable? I read the ps5 doesn't do 8k stuff yet but I'm not sure about the Xbox system. Is this only possible with a computer video card?

Basically is anyone able to actually run an 8k signal from the receiver to their 8k tvs? Lastly I did notice that my Samsung tv (QN900B) is still squawking at me about changing the HDMI cable to get better viewing quality (or something to that effect). I wish I knew why. Before I go through the trouble of installing this new cable I want to make sure it's 100% good to go but not sure how else to test it?

Many thanks bro. This stuff makes me want to screammmmmmm ahhhhhhhh!


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## Otto Pylot

HomieTheClown said:


> Hey Otto,
> 
> I was wondering what are people using to test our their 8k cables to see if they actually work. Ruidpro sent me about a second cable because the first one was having issues. I hooked it up to the HDMI tester on the Denon and it passed about 80% percent of the time as an 8k 40gbps (shouldn't it say 48?). I would have liked to see 100% pass rate but I'm guessing that is not realistic with 15m long cord. Anyway I was able to get 4k signal sent from the receiver (Ps4 Source) to the TV but I was wondering how are people actually using their 8k cable? I read the ps5 doesn't do 8k stuff yet but I'm not sure about the Xbox system. Is this only possible with a computer video card?
> 
> Basically is anyone able to actually run an 8k signal from the receiver to their 8k tvs? Lastly I did notice that my Samsung tv (QN900B) is still squawking at me about changing the HDMI cable to get better viewing quality (or something to that effect). I wish I knew why. Before I go through the trouble of installing this new cable I want to make sure it's 100% good to go but not sure how else to test it?
> 
> Many thanks bro. This stuff makes me want to screammmmmmm ahhhhhhhh!


There isn't any native source material that is encoded in 8k so 8k, at least at this point in time, is all marketing and fluff. I would just push your connected devices to what ever you want and if you don't have any issues, call it a day. 40Gbps is about the maximum so far because, as I mentioned, there isn't any source material that requires the full 48Gbps bandwidth. There may be a game or two but certainly no movies.

The bandwidth tester on the Denon receiver is a nice option but their reliability and accuracy has been questioned, considering calibrated, highly accurate bandwidth testers can cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars. I doubt if Denon put that kind of cost into their receivers. It is useful though to give one an idea of potential cable capability. However, the best test is to just push your connected devices to what you want and see what happens.

I have a Samsung QN90A and it throws out some odd HMDI notices every now and then but I just attribute it to Samsung being Samsung. 50' is getting a bit long but should still work. Is that a direct, source to sink connection with nothing in-between?


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## Ellebob

Many people aren't using 8K material but what some gamers are using higher frame rates with 4K which needs more bandwidth than regular 4K and requires HDMI 2.1 bandwidth. I'm not even referring to HDMI 2.1s new feature of variable frame rate but if you wanted 4K/HDR 10 bit (instead of 8 bit) at 120 frames per second it is close to 40gbs if off the top of my head math is correct. Anyway, over 18gbs of the previous version. SO some gamers are using the bandwidth of the new version of HDMI. If you are not a gamer you are fine with HDMI 2.0 bandwidth since no real 8 material except demo stuff is really avaialble.

You are correct that testers should be capable of 48gbs but some HDMI chipsets only go to 40gbs. Even some of the professional cable testers from companies like Murideo can only do 40gbs currently. This is limited by chips available. There are some testers that do 48gbs but the least expensive cable tester I know of is $15,000. Many installers use the Murideo tester as it is only $2500 and I don't know of too many common resolutions/ formats that go above 40gbs.


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## dougpark714

Is there any certified HDMI 2.1 cable (~33 feet) that's CL2 rated for in-wall installation? The only CL2 cable that I could find is the RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2. But it's not officially certified. Thanks.


----------



## Otto Pylot

dougpark714 said:


> Is there any certified HDMI 2.1 cable (~33 feet) that's CL2 rated for in-wall installation? The only CL2 cable that I could find is the RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2. But it's not officially certified. Thanks.


This question comes up a lot. Are you sure you need a CL fire rated cable? HDMI cables are LV so you might want to check your local building codes to see what is required for in-wall LV cables. CL2 is for HV cables up to 150v and CL3 is for HV cables up to 300v. All fire rated cables need to pass the vertical tray flame test which means they won't spread flames more than 8'.

CL-rated cables will limit your choices in cable types considerably. They are bit more costly to the mfr to build because of the jacket requirements for the CL rating and the cables are typically a bit stiffer so the bend radius and weight of the cable is to be taken into consideration. That cost added to the cost of certification is something a lot of cable mfrs are reluctant to do. For in-wall, using a conduit is highly recommended if at all possible. It makes cable installation so much easier, safer, and affords a bit of protection to the cable. Ease of access to your cabling is the key factor for "future proofing" however you can achieve that.

See my cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables for a listing of UHD HDMI cables from various cable mfrs that have worked well for AVS members. It's not a recommendation of any one specific cable but a list to start with. You can contact the mfrs listed and see if they have added CL-rated cables to their product list for either certified or non-certified cables. Keep in mind that certification is not a guarantee of compatibility.


----------



## flyers10

dougpark714 said:


> Is there any certified HDMI 2.1 cable (~33 feet) that's CL2 rated for in-wall installation? The only CL2 cable that I could find is the RUIPRO 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2. But it's not officially certified. Thanks.


I didn't see any. I got this same cable in the 25ft the other week. Think it says CL3 on the box. Price has dropped on it a bunch from a month or 2 ago.


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## dougpark714

Thanks.


Otto Pylot said:


> This question comes up a lot. Are you sure you need a CL fire rated cable? HDMI cables are LV so you might want to check your local building codes to see what is required for in-wall LV cables. CL2 is for HV cables up to 150v and CL3 is for HV cables up to 300v. All fire rated cables need to pass the vertical tray flame test which means they won't spread flames more than 8'.
> 
> CL-rated cables will limit your choices in cable types considerably. They are bit more costly to the mfr to build because of the jacket requirements for the CL rating and the cables are typically a bit stiffer so the bend radius and weight of the cable is to be taken into consideration. That cost added to the cost of certification is something a lot of cable mfrs are reluctant to do. For in-wall, using a conduit is highly recommended if at all possible. It makes cable installation so much easier, safer, and affords a bit of protection to the cable. Ease of access to your cabling is the key factor for "future proofing" however you can achieve that.
> 
> See my cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables for a listing of UHD HDMI cables from various cable mfrs that have worked well for AVS members. It's not a recommendation of any one specific cable but a list to start with. You can contact the mfrs listed and see if they have added CL-rated cables to their product list for either certified or non-certified cables. Keep in mind that certification is not a guarantee of compatibility.


Yes, in my case, I need CL rated (CL2 minimum) since it will be going through walls and is required per our city building code. I'm sure I can just install a non wall-rated cable but given the choice, I would prefer the peace of mind.

Thanks for your recommendation on using conduit. I did not get any quotes but I'm sure it will add additional cost but will probably be worth it in the long term when technology changes or if the HDMI cable fails (which seems to happen often).

I noticed the Ablink cable at the 50 feet version is now certified and is CL3 rated. But I wonder if it's better to go with Ablink 50 feet certified vs RUIPRO 33 feet HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2? While the Ablink is certified, it significantly longer (which I don't need) and I'm assuming can lead to issues. Or certification worth it? Or is it better to go with the shorter
https://www.amazon.com/Ablink-48Gbps-Support-Compatible-Switch/dp/B08VNRJNRZ?th=1


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## dougpark714

flyers10 said:


> I didn't see any. I got this same cable in the 25ft the other week. Think it says CL3 on the box. Price has dropped on it a bunch from a month or 2 ago.


Any issues with the cable? Did you notice if the connector ends get hot?


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## flyers10

dougpark714 said:


> Any issues with the cable? Did you notice if the connector ends get hot?


Won't be hooking it up for another couple months.


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## Otto Pylot

dougpark714 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Yes, in my case, I need CL rated (CL2 minimum) since it will be going through walls and is required per our city building code. I'm sure I can just install a non wall-rated cable but given the choice, I would prefer the peace of mind.
> 
> Thanks for your recommendation on using conduit. I did not get any quotes but I'm sure it will add additional cost but will probably be worth it in the long term when technology changes or if the HDMI cable fails (which seems to happen often).
> 
> I noticed the Ablink cable at the 50 feet version is now certified and is CL3 rated. But I wonder if it's better to go with Ablink 50 feet certified vs RUIPRO 33 feet HDMI Fiber Optic Cable CL2? While the Ablink is certified, it significantly longer (which I don't need) and I'm assuming can lead to issues. Or certification worth it? Or is it better to go with the shorter
> https://www.amazon.com/Ablink-48Gbps-Support-Compatible-Switch/dp/B08VNRJNRZ?th=1


I am not familiar with that specific cable but doing some research and messaging around there doesn't appear to be the QR label of authenticity on the packaging nor a CL label on either the packaging or cable. HDMI LA requires the cable to be marked as Ultra High Speed HDMI and if CL rated, that needs to be stamped on the cable as well. The "certification" is listed as "HDMI Forumatic Testing" which is a term I had not heard of. It could be in-house or out-sourced testing supposedly following the HDMI.org specifications for compliance but not actually tested by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). HDMI is allowing cable mfrs who previously had Premium High Speed HDMI cables to be sold as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables if they passed the more rigorous EMI requirements for PHS HDMI cables.

Does your building code differentiate between LV (Low Voltage) and HV (High Voltage) wiring for in-wall installations? Keep in mind that the vertical flame tray test is the same for both wiring, it's the voltage and potential shock hazard (resulting a fire) that is the concern. It's up to you. However, for hybrid fiber cabling at that length, you really should consider a 1.5"-2.0" flexible, smooth interior walled conduit, with pull strings. You want to be able to safely and easily pull the cable (not by the connector ends!) thru your wall and around bends without any difficulties. A single cable run, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between. 

The shortest cable run you can reasonably do is always best. As long as you don't have sharp, 90º bends or any undue strain on the HDMI ports you should be fine. But, as we always say, TEST TEST TEST prior to final installation to make sure the cable will meet your needs and expectations.

You don't NEED a properly certified cable for the HDMI option sets you want to push but it's not a bad idea, especially if the certification is done by HDMI. Certification doesn't really guarantee anything other than you know that the cable mfr had their cable tested by a standardized testing program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. There's more to having a successful cable run than just the cable itself. Compatibility with source/sink devices can play a major part, even if the product description says the cable was tested with specific devices. The HDMI chipsets used in the various devices is really the deciding factor, and there is no way for the consumer to know which version of HDMI 2.1 chipsets were/are being used or what, if anything, the device mfr has modified them to be specific for their device. It should all just work but that's not the reality of HDMI.


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## dougpark714

Otto Pylot said:


> I am not familiar with that specific cable but doing some research and messaging around there doesn't appear to be the QR label of authenticity on the packaging nor a CL label on either the packaging or cable. HDMI LA requires the cable to be marked as Ultra High Speed HDMI and if CL rated, that needs to be stamped on the cable as well. The "certification" is listed as "HDMI Forumatic Testing" which is a term I had not heard of. It could be in-house or out-sourced testing supposedly following the HDMI.org specifications for compliance but not actually tested by an ATC (Authorized Testing Center). HDMI is allowing cable mfrs who previously had Premium High Speed HDMI cables to be sold as Ultra High Speed HDMI cables if they passed the more rigorous EMI requirements for PHS HDMI cables.
> 
> Does your building code differentiate between LV (Low Voltage) and HV (High Voltage) wiring for in-wall installations? Keep in mind that the vertical flame tray test is the same for both wiring, it's the voltage and potential shock hazard (resulting a fire) that is the concern. It's up to you. However, for hybrid fiber cabling at that length, you really should consider a 1.5"-2.0" flexible, smooth interior walled conduit, with pull strings. You want to be able to safely and easily pull the cable (not by the connector ends!) thru your wall and around bends without any difficulties. A single cable run, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between.
> 
> The shortest cable run you can reasonably do is always best. As long as you don't have sharp, 90º bends or any undue strain on the HDMI ports you should be fine. But, as we always say, TEST TEST TEST prior to final installation to make sure the cable will meet your needs and expectations.
> 
> You don't NEED a properly certified cable for the HDMI option sets you want to push but it's not a bad idea, especially if the certification is done by HDMI. Certification doesn't really guarantee anything other than you know that the cable mfr had their cable tested by a standardized testing program designed by HDMI.org and certified by HDMI LA. There's more to having a successful cable run than just the cable itself. Compatibility with source/sink devices can play a major part, even if the product description says the cable was tested with specific devices. The HDMI chipsets used in the various devices is really the deciding factor, and there is no way for the consumer to know which version of HDMI 2.1 chipsets were/are being used or what, if anything, the device mfr has modified them to be specific for their device. It should all just work but that's not the reality of HDMI.


Thx for the suggestion on the 1.5-2" conduit with pull string. I'm sure the install will be more expensive than just routing HDMI but worth it in the long run. 

Interesting points on certification. 

I received my Ruipro fiber HDMI yesterday. Pleasantly surprise with the build quality. Relatively thin and flexible. But let's see how it performs.


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## Otto Pylot

Installing conduit is a hassle, and costly if you don't already have your walls open, but if you plan on staying in your current home for a long time, it may be money well spent. You can also run solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 (non-CCA/CCS) if you think you may want to extend an ethernet connection later on as well. Just give yourself plenty of service loop and just coil it up inside the j-box.

Did you order the Ruipro cable from Amazon or directly from Ruipro? I ask because once Amazon offers a cable for sale, they control the inventory so if they happen to have an older version of a cable, that's probably what they will pull. Let us know how the CL2 Ruipro cable works. 

The mantra for new cables is TEST TEST TEST before your final installation.


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## Yiorgos759

Hello. Any suggestions for a 5m HDMI 2.1 cable to connect LG OLED to RTX GPU that works reliably? I have tried the phossno gen 1 and gen 2 cables and they do not work. Their support has been truly amazing and they are now sending me another variation to try. I just want a copper cable suggestion if its possible.


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## Otto Pylot

Yiorgos759 said:


> Hello. Any suggestions for a 5m HDMI 2.1 cable to connect LG OLED to RTX GPU that works reliably? I have tried the phossno gen 1 and gen 2 cables and they do not work. Their support has been truly amazing and they are now sending me another variation to try. I just want a copper cable suggestion if its possible.


At 16' (5m), you might want to consider a passive, UHS HDMI cable (HDMI 2.1 option set) from Zeskit Maya, Ruipro, Maxonar, or Kenable. Just keep in mind that passive, certified cables are a bit stiffer than hybrid fiber cables to you want to be careful with your installation so that there are no sharp, 90º bends in the cable and you do not have any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Single cable, source to sink with no wall plates, adapters, extenders in-between is the most reliable connection.

I'm surprised that the Phoossno hybrid fiber cable didn't work. I've tested them on my system and a friend's gaming platform and they performed as expected. RTX cards, depending on the version, have had issues in the past with some setups and display devices.

See my list: Short List of HDMI Cables for a small guide of certified UHS HDMI cables that have worked for AVS members.


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## Yiorgos759

Yes i was suprised too that they did not work after reading good things. The first one was Gen 1 cable (5m) and with that there was not even a picture on 4K60. Contacted them ( they have trully amazing support) and they sent me a gen 2 10m cable. (there was no 5m available for this version). There was picture with this one but there were dropouts and flicker every 10-20 min. ( desktop and in games). Now they are sending me a slim 7.5 m cable to test.... Will be here Tuesday. If it does not work i think i will get this one to try:









RUIPRO 8K Certified HDMI 2.1 Cable 5M Ultra HD High Speed 48Gbps 8K @ 60Hz 4K @ 120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP 2.2/2.3 Compatible with Blu-ray Player HDTV Projector Home Cinema TV Box Games : Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo


RUIPRO 8K Certified HDMI 2.1 Cable 5M Ultra HD High Speed 48Gbps 8K @ 60Hz 4K @ 120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP 2.2/2.3 Compatible with Blu-ray Player HDTV Projector Home Cinema TV Box Games : Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo



www.amazon.de




or this one








Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified: Cable Matters 5 m Active HDMI Cable with 8K 60Hz, 4K 120Hz and HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo


Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified: Cable Matters 5 m Active HDMI Cable with 8K 60Hz, 4K 120Hz and HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo



www.amazon.de





But i think i will go for the copper one. There is something off with these fiber optic cables.....


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## dougpark714

Any recommendations on a reliable hdbaset 4k60 hdr converter to use with one more multiple cat6 instead of running new hdmi? This may be a viable option since there’s already solid copper cat6 in the wall. I know I can’t get 4k120+ but I don’t have foresee using those higher resolutions in the future. Any downside with this approach?

Hdbaset 3.0 sounds like the latest and provided uncompressed video like the Aten VE1843


----------



## Otto Pylot

Yiorgos759 said:


> Yes i was suprised too that they did not work after reading good things. The first one was Gen 1 cable (5m) and with that there was not even a picture on 4K60. Contacted them ( they have trully amazing support) and they sent me a gen 2 10m cable. (there was no 5m available for this version). There was picture with this one but there were dropouts and flicker every 10-20 min. ( desktop and in games). Now they are sending me a slim 7.5 m cable to test.... Will be here Tuesday. If it does not work i think i will get this one to try:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RUIPRO 8K Certified HDMI 2.1 Cable 5M Ultra HD High Speed 48Gbps 8K @ 60Hz 4K @ 120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP 2.2/2.3 Compatible with Blu-ray Player HDTV Projector Home Cinema TV Box Games : Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo
> 
> 
> RUIPRO 8K Certified HDMI 2.1 Cable 5M Ultra HD High Speed 48Gbps 8K @ 60Hz 4K @ 120Hz Dynamic HDR eARC HDCP 2.2/2.3 Compatible with Blu-ray Player HDTV Projector Home Cinema TV Box Games : Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified: Cable Matters 5 m Active HDMI Cable with 8K 60Hz, 4K 120Hz and HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo
> 
> 
> Ultra High Speed HDMI Certified: Cable Matters 5 m Active HDMI Cable with 8K 60Hz, 4K 120Hz and HDR - Designed for Xbox, Compatible with PS5, Apple TV: Amazon.de: Electronics & Photo
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But i think i will go for the copper one. There is something off with these fiber optic cables.....


CablesMatters and Phoossno would be the next cables I'd try if the newest Ruipro cable does not work. Keep in mind that ordering from Amazon does not always guarantee that you will get the latest version because once they are on Amazon, Amazon controls the inventory and will usually send out the oldest item in their inventory. They are also known to "expand" a bit on the product descriptions, much to the chagrin of the mfrs. Dealing directly with the mfr, as it appears you have done, is the best way.

At 5m (16') try the Zeskit Maya or Lite cables as they are ATC certified, passive UHS HDMI cables. Just make sure you have enough length so as to not have any sharp bends or crimping in the cables


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## Otto Pylot

dougpark714 said:


> Any recommendations on a reliable hdbaset 4k60 hdr converter to use with one more multiple cat6 instead of running new hdmi? This may be a viable option since there’s already solid copper cat6 in the wall. I know I can’t get 4k120+ but I don’t have foresee using those higher resolutions in the future. Any downside with this approach?
> 
> Hdbaset 3.0 sounds like the latest and provided uncompressed video like the Aten VE1843


HDBT 3.0 allows for uncompressed video for the HDMI 2.0 option sets, unless that's changed recently. It's best to use solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 or 6a (ideally) cabling that is not CCA or CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable. Terminating with 8P8C connectors is easy. eARC is possible for HDBT 3.0, in theory, but you just about have to use solid core CAT-6a and if you distance is longer than about 20'-25', a hybrid fiber cable would be recommended.


----------



## dougpark714

Otto Pylot said:


> HDBT 3.0 allows for uncompressed video for the HDMI 2.0 option sets, unless that's changed recently. It's best to use solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 or 6a (ideally) cabling that is not CCA or CCS and not CAT-6 ethernet patch cable. Terminating with 8P8C connectors is easy. eARC is possible for HDBT 3.0, in theory, but you just about have to use solid core CAT-6a and if you distance is longer than about 20'-25', a hybrid fiber cable would be recommended.


Yes confirmed cable is cat 6e, solid copper (did not realize there was difference but makes sense). Distance is ~25 feet.

Interesting point terminating with 8P8C. Assuming it’s similar to terminating rj45 but different end to accommodate solid copper?


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## Otto Pylot

dougpark714 said:


> Yes confirmed cable is cat 6e, solid copper (did not realize there was difference but makes sense). Distance is ~25 feet.
> 
> Interesting point terminating with 8P8C. Assuming it’s similar to terminating rj45 but different end to accommodate solid copper?


8P8C is the correct terminology for RJ-45 connectors. I terminated all of my solid copper cabling for ethernet connections with 8P8C and punchdown keystone jacks so I could hard wire my HTS's and not depend on WiFi. Same for my satellites for the mesh WiFi system. Do you know if your solid copper cabling is actually solid copper or CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)/CCS (Copper Clad Steel)? That can make a big difference in reliability. You can tell by cutting a piece of wire and looking closely at it or just try to scape off some of the copper and see if it's copper all the way thru.


----------



## dougpark714

Otto Pylot said:


> 8P8C is the correct terminology for RJ-45 connectors. I terminated all of my solid copper cabling for ethernet connections with 8P8C and punchdown keystone jacks so I could hard wire my HTS's and not depend on WiFi. Same for my satellites for the mesh WiFi system. Do you know if your solid copper cabling is actually solid copper or CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)/CCS (Copper Clad Steel)? That can make a big difference in reliability. You can tell by cutting a piece of wire and looking closely at it or just try to scape off some of the copper and see if it's copper all the way thru.


Looks like solid copper but hard to tell for sure. 23AWG but nothing on the jacket to confirm if solid copper. Will try the scrape test.

Have you seen any HDbaseT converters that work best given we have the correct cabling? Sounds like there HDbaseT spec 2.0 and 3.0. Seems like there had some trouble with flickering etc. So maybe fiber hybrid with conduit is the way to go even if it's a bit more expensive. 



Otto Pylot said:


> Installing conduit is a hassle, and costly if you don't already have your walls open, but if you plan on staying in your current home for a long time, it may be money well spent. You can also run solid copper core, UTP, CAT-6 (non-CCA/CCS) if you think you may want to extend an ethernet connection later on as well. Just give yourself plenty of service loop and just coil it up inside the j-box.
> 
> Did you order the Ruipro cable from Amazon or directly from Ruipro? I ask because once Amazon offers a cable for sale, they control the inventory so if they happen to have an older version of a cable, that's probably what they will pull. Let us know how the CL2 Ruipro cable works.
> 
> The mantra for new cables is TEST TEST TEST before your final installation.


Any way to tell if I received the newest version of the Ruipro cable?


----------



## Otto Pylot

dougpark714 said:


> Looks like solid copper but hard to tell for sure. 23AWG but nothing on the jacket to confirm if solid copper. Will try the scrape test.
> 
> Have you seen any HDbaseT converters that work best given we have the correct cabling? Sounds like there HDbaseT spec 2.0 and 3.0. Seems like there had some trouble with flickering etc. So maybe fiber hybrid with conduit is the way to go even if it's a bit more expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> Any way to tell if I received the newest version of the Ruipro cable?


HDBT 2.0 is the older, current version. HDBT 3.0 is the newer version that is supposed to offer lossless audio. I'm not sure if it still can handle eARC or not. If you do install conduit, just run some solid core, UTP, CAT-6 (or 6a) in the conduit just in case you want to try HDBT or run an ethernet connection. Just give yourself plenty of service loop in the junction box and both ends.

The only way to really ensure you get the latest iteration of the Ruipro cable, and they haven't changed their design for quite some time now, is to order directly from Ruipro and ask them.


----------



## johndoejohndoes

What’s the best in wall cable for 10 ft runs? Looking for something that is the most future proof.

I’ve read good things about Blue Jeans Cable - but I’m open to other suggestions.


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## Otto Pylot

johndoejohndoes said:


> What’s the best in wall cable for 10 ft runs? Looking for something that is the most future proof.
> 
> I’ve read good things about Blue Jeans Cable - but I’m open to other suggestions.


Without sounding snarky, the best cable is the one that works for you. There are no 100% absolute guarantees that any cable will work with all devices and setups. That being said...

At 10', just about any well made cable is going to work depending on your needs and what you want to accomplish. If you want an ATC certified cable, Premium High Speed (HDMI 2.0 option sets) or Ultra High Speed HDMI (HDMI 2.1 option sets) you have choices for either passive or active cables, copper-only or hybrid fiber. At 10', I would think that a hybrid fiber cable would be an expensive overkill. See my list: Short Cable List of HDMI Cables for an idea of what is offered for the HDMI 2.1 options sets that have worked well for AVS users.

For in-wall, the recommendation is to use flexible, smooth-walled conduit, 1.5"-2.0" in diameter if at all possible. Future proofing really means easy access to your cabling so if you have to swap out a cable, or upgrade to one that can better handle future video options, you can easily and safely so that. Certification is recommended but not necessarily a requirement as it is not a 100% guarantee of compatibility.

Personally, for under 10', I'd look to a passive cable because there are no electronic chipsets in the connector ends like there are for active cables so one is less likely to have issues. But, passive, certified cables can be stiffer than active cables so bend radius (no sharp, 90º bends) and any undue stress on the HDMI ports is critical, so plan your cable length carefully.

As to BJC cables, they do make very good cables and I've used them in the past with zero issues.


----------



## mogrub

Getting HDMI right can be like trying to nail a chunk of jello to the wall. But this thread makes the job easier.

I use 6 foot HDMI runs for everything except a 40 foot run from AVR to projector. The last time I had to change that one was 2014 when a new Darbee Darblet was the straw that broke my signal chain's back. The added burden caused intermittent drops. They always came at the worst time. That GOT episode where Geoffrey died, the whole episode was was fine until he ate that piece of funky cake. That's when the signal dropped. By the time I could force a handshake, Geoffrey was toast and Tyrion was under arrest. Same thing happened right before House Stark had a bad night at the Red Wedding. The drops were only intermittent but with timing like that, I finally quit stalling and ran a new 40' Monoprice Redmere. Problem solved.

I was pleasantly surprised that cable held up fine when we upgraded to a 4K projector a few years later. AOK with a Sony 4K disc player and AOK with a Roku 4K Ultra. I stopped worrying that it wasn't up to the new job. But I bought a used Oppo 203 a few months ago, popped it in, and it acted DOA. Even the UI was intermittent. My first thought was damage in transit. But I dialed down the color space and manually set to a lower resolution, and with those changes the Oppo played with only occasional drops. But now I knew it was time for a new cable.

That's where this thread helped a bunch. It's nuts how individualized it can be about which HDMI cables work where. Installing new cables through walls and attics isn't the end of the world, but you really don't want to do it over and over again just for fun. Better for the first cable to do the trick. Using the resources here, mine did.

In case it helps anybody with an equipment set similar to mine, the Ruipro Fiber Optic CL2 rated cable worked perfectly. I can throw any color space and resolution from any source and the Ruipro doesn't blink. The attic was blazing hot and it's a ridiculously hard space to work in, but my reward was getting to watch Denis Villeneuve's _Dune_ in 4K last night. The HBOMax _Dune_ stream looked pretty good, the 3D Blu-Ray looked even better, but sand worms in 4K are a whole new ballgame.

To Arrow, Otto and the rest of you that helped make it happen, thanks for the help. 👍


----------



## Otto Pylot

@mogrub You're welcome. Just keep my short list handy in case you ever need to swap out your cable. It's unfortunate that you couldn't install a conduit in your attic space because that would make life a whole lot easier for future cable pulls but at least you were successful and now have the experience of installing so if there is a next time, you know what to do.


----------



## mogrub

Otto Pylot said:


> @mogrub You're welcome ... it's unfortunate you couldn't install a conduit in your attic space because that would make life a whole lot easier for future cable pulls ...


Great advice Otto. But there actually IS conduit from the AV closet to the attic. Unfortunately, when I did Atmos in 2018, all that new speaker wire filled the remaining space in the conduit. (Whole house ethernet and all kinds of other stuff lives in there.) So I knew going into this week's HDMI update that I was gonna need to figure out a new cable path. There were no obvious solutions. So I did a tethered "fish rod fling" from the attic, aiming at a flashlight inside the wall, one floor down in the target area. I could only see a little glow from up in the attic but that made it doable. I got close enough on the second fling to reach the rod from a cutout at floor downstairs. No room for new conduit but I did leave a pair of pull cords behind for future use.

I wish conduit in the attic would help. That ain't the problem. Up there, just physically getting into the work area is the problem. There's an insane tangle of HVAC and other structural barriers that make it almost impossible to get where you gotta go. Only two options. The Low Road with a roughly 5 foot horizontal belly crawl with maybe 8 inches of vertical clearance. I've gotta keep my head turned sideways to fit through. It's a workout. Once you get to where you can sit up a little, you can then crawl up and down over the remaining barriers to reach the work area. The High Road is probably worse. It's physically harder. But they're both horrible. You end up alternating because somehow it seems less horrible than doing either one twice in a row. Fun hobby.

Actually, it is fun. In a way. After the second javelin toss, I stuck my iPhone back through the little floor level access port to take pictures again. Too small and dark to look around any other way. When I finally saw my fish rod in the last pic, I yelled like a madman and laughed like one too. The hard part was over. 🤪


----------



## Otto Pylot

@mogrub That is one story! At least you got it done and know what you're in for, and how to do it should you ever need to again. A belly crawl is not something I'm willing to do, especially in a tight spot with god knows what in the attic space. I just hired some LV electricians to do the grunt work for me and had them leave plenty of service loop, at least for the ethernet cabling, so I could terminate myself.

Sometimes attaching a heavy fishing weight on the string and then dropping that helps to keep it straight and where you want it to go.


----------



## mogrub

Otto Pylot said:


> @mogrub That is one story … sometimes attaching a heavy fishing weight on the string and then dropping that helps to keep it straight and where you want it to go.


Amen Otto, wish my weights would have worked on this one. But there’s a bunch of clutter and passive resistance in that chase, plus I needed to land about 18 inches off vertical to make it work. Javelin toss was all I could come up with. Got super lucky to get home on the second try. The flashlight idea helped but it was mostly just good luck. 🍀 That only made it more fun. And thanks to the new Ruipro, tonight was _Passengers_ in 4K. 👍


----------



## Otto Pylot

mogrub said:


> Amen Otto, wish my weights would have worked on this one. But there’s a bunch of clutter and passive resistance in that chase, plus I needed to land about 18 inches off vertical to make it work. Javelin toss was all I could come up with. Got super lucky to get home on the second try. The flashlight idea helped but it was mostly just good luck. 🍀 That only made it more fun. And thanks to the new Ruipro, tonight was _Passengers_ in 4K. 👍


Glad to hear that everything has worked, with the Ruipro cable and the challenging installation. At least if you ever have to replace the cable, you can use the existing cable as a pull string. Just don't pull the new cable from the connector end. Attach the old cable to the body of the new cable and just secure the connector end from bending backwards or snagging. It's unfortunate that you couldn't fish a flexible, smooth-walled conduit. That would make future life SO much easier.


----------



## Webmonkey

helvetica bold said:


> Has SVS new HDMI 2.1 cable been posted?
> Nice looking cable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SVS SoundPath Ultra HDMI Cable
> 
> 
> Certified 8K Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1a Cable for TVs, Soundbars, gaming consoles, Blu-ray players and AV Components.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.svsound.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just tested this cable - handshake problems between Marantz AV8805 and Panasonic UB820 when trying to pass HDR .... meh.... generic High Speed cable works flawlessly...


----------



## Otto Pylot

Webmonkey said:


> Just tested this cable - handshake problems between Marantz AV8805 and Panasonic UB820 when trying to pass HDR .... meh.... generic High Speed cable works flawlessly...


Marketing at its finest. Sort of along the line of what another popular, over priced cable mfr does. $10 per foot of cable is ridiculous. SVS uses the term "Ultra High Speed HDMI", which implies certification but I don't see any mention of that or the QR label of authenticity. Nice looking cable but I don't use cables for their looks, I use them for their performance. HDMI 2.1a is pretty meaningless at this point in time. Just another marketing hook to get early adopters.

That being said, what exactly was the issue with the cable? Passive cables are usually stiffer so you really need to pay attention to the bend radius and ensure that there isn't any undue strain on the HDMI ports because either one of those can cause signal propagation issues which results in all kinds of "symptoms".


----------



## Webmonkey

Otto Pylot said:


> That being said, what exactly was the issue with the cable? Passive cables are usually stiffer so you really need to pay attention to the bend radius and ensure that there isn't any undue strain on the HDMI ports because either one of those can cause signal propagation issues which results in all kinds of "symptoms".


Picture dropouts. Getting bluescreen / Out of Range every 5min when trying 2160p HDR from a Panna UB824 to a Marantz AV8805. The High Speed cable that came with my Oppo 105D works flawlessly.

Last night also testet with my 105D - got a few black screen dropouts using a 2160p @ 24p 4:4:4 8bit signal from upscaled bluray...

I checked the connection and also tried to reverse the cable. no change in behaviour


----------



## Otto Pylot

Webmonkey said:


> Picture dropouts. Getting bluescreen / Out of Range every 5min when trying 2160p HDR from a Panna UB824 to a Marantz AV8805. The High Speed cable that came with my Oppo 105D works flawlessly.
> 
> Last night also testet with my 105D - got a few black screen dropouts using a 2160p @ 24p 4:4:4 8bit signal from upscaled bluray...
> 
> I checked the connection and also tried to reverse the cable. no change in behaviour


Why can't you continue to use the cable that came with the Oppo then? Or did I miss something? How long is the run? You can checkout my cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables to get an idea of some cables that have worked well for AVS members.


----------



## Webmonkey

Otto Pylot said:


> Why can't you continue to use the cable that came with the Oppo then? Or did I miss something? How long is the run? You can checkout my cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables to get an idea of some cables that have worked well for AVS members.


Because that is normally being used with the 105D. I had a generic cheap cable for the UB824 when I used to play UHD discs in 1080p mode (to get the Atmos soundtrack, which in many cases is absent from the BD disc) until I could get upgrade to a 4K projector.


----------



## Otto Pylot

I just noticed you said you "reversed" the cable. Is it an active cable or a passive cable? How long is your cable run? Have you tried to change the color space to 4:2:0 because that's what blu-ray disks are encoded in.


----------



## Webmonkey

Otto Pylot said:


> I just noticed you said you "reversed" the cable. Is it an active cable or a passive cable? How long is your cable run? Have you tried to change the color space to 4:2:0 because that's what blu-ray disks are encoded in.


it is a passive cable. I did not expect any change, but it was worth a try... the length is the 1M. The shortest they offer.

I have not tried to change the colorspace for blu ray.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Webmonkey said:


> it is a passive cable. I did not expect any change, but it was worth a try... the length is the 1M. The shortest they offer.
> 
> I have not tried to change the colorspace for blu ray.


At 1m (3') practically any well made High Speed HDMI cable should work. You don't need an active cable, copper or hybrid fiber. If you want an ATC certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cable at 1m - 1.5m look at Zeskit Lite, Ruipro, Maxonar, etc. Those cables, and a few more are listed in my Short HDMI Cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables .

Reversing a passive cable makes no difference. It's only with an active cable that it makes a difference.

4:4:4 is really only good for some games and if you use your tv as a monitor. For movies, I doubt if you could visually tell the difference. Both of my HTS's use the ATV4k as the main streaming source and it's defaulted to YCbCR, 4:4:4 and there are no issues with pq, using the receivers as the hub.

My Panasonic BDT-210 (an old but reliable blu-ray player) is set to YCbCr 4:2:2, 24p and has zero issues. The UHD/BD player is set to YCbCr, 24p, but I need to put a disk in to see what the color space.

I use the Ruipro, passive UHS HDMI cables on the OLED system and the Zeskit Lite, passive UHS HDMI cables on the QLED system. <3m length on both systems. Just give yourself some extra length so you don't have any sharp bends in the cables or undue strain on the HDMI ports.


----------



## stardrab

Does anyone find that some cables don't work as well with HDMI switches (and maybe receivers)? Even though Zeskit cables have high ratings on amazon and they are working well for me when I connect direct from source to TV, they will give me random 3-second black screens when connecting via a switch. Typically happens after an hour+ of usage. Not sure if it's a heat issue, EMI, something about the rigidness of the cable, or something else. I originally was using a Ruipro passive 6' and a no-name, but certified (Yanwei) 3' and didn't see the issue, and when I go back to those cables I don't see it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

stardrab said:


> Does anyone find that some cables don't work as well with HDMI switches (and maybe receivers)? Even though Zeskit cables have high ratings on amazon and they are working well for me when I connect direct from source to TV, they will give me random 3-second black screens when connecting via a switch. Typically happens after an hour+ of usage. Not sure if it's a heat issue, EMI, something about the rigidness of the cable, or something else. I originally was using a Ruipro passive 6' and a no-name, but certified (Yanwei) 3' and didn't see the issue, and when I go back to those cables I don't see it.


Powered switches? Active cables? If you're using passive cables you should make sure that there aren't any kinks or sharp bends in the cable and that there is not any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Distance would not be your issue. If they work as expected with a direct connection, maybe try a different switch. Are you using CEC? Does it only happen when you switch sources? Same video output (color space, etc) with or without the switch?


----------



## stardrab

Otto Pylot said:


> Powered switches? Active cables? If you're using passive cables you should make sure that there aren't any kinks or sharp bends in the cable and that there is not any undue strain on the HDMI ports. Distance would not be your issue. If they work as expected with a direct connection, maybe try a different switch. Are you using CEC? Does it only happen when you switch sources? Same video output (color space, etc) with or without the switch?


Yes, powered switches and passive cables. There doesn't seem to be much bending in the cables. I am using CEC. Isn't related to switching sources--I'm on the same source for 60+ minutes and then suddenly get a 3s black screen. AFAIK, it's using the same settings with or without the switch. The only wildcard is whether the switch is somehow causing the source to use (or not use) DSC. I only have the problem with Xbox and PC and not with PS5. Not sure if it's the lower bandwidth on the PS5 output (32Gbit) or something to do with DSC.

I probably need a bit more data on whether switching back to the previous cables is 100% solid, so keeping an eye on things for now. It's possible a TV firmware update or other change was responsible and not the different cables.

I generally have had a lot of challenges finding a reliable HDMI 2.1 switch, particularly with >2 ports, and particularly one that works properly with nVidia 3000 series. AVIDGRAM is the only one that is nearly there for me (other than the random black screen). I was using the 2-port auto-switching switch before and now the 4-port. Both give me the random black screen (at least with the Zeskit cables).

Thanks for the ideas--I will keep an eye on things and report back.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@stardrab I'm surprised that you found a reliable switch that could handle the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They were few and far between when I looked at them, but that was sometime ago. Maybe try a different switch?

Yeah, if it was CEC then I would think that switching sources would be a problem rather quickly, not an hour later. Maybe there is a current leak or something in the switch that forces CEC to think there's a call to switch to another source that isn't there, hence the blank screen. Can you disable CEC on all connected devices, switch around manually and see if you can reproduce the problem? If you can't maybe it's the switch.


----------



## stardrab

Otto Pylot said:


> @stardrab I'm surprised that you found a reliable switch that could handle the HDMI 2.1 options sets. They were few and far between when I looked at them, but that was sometime ago. Maybe try a different switch?
> 
> Yeah, if it was CEC then I would think that switching sources would be a problem rather quickly, not an hour later. Maybe there is a current leak or something in the switch that forces CEC to think there's a call to switch to another source that isn't there, hence the blank screen. Can you disable CEC on all connected devices, switch around manually and see if you can reproduce the problem? If you can't maybe it's the switch.


I will keep the CEC idea in mind. Unfortunately, my TV requires it to be enabled or eARC won't work (and I need it).


----------



## Otto Pylot

stardrab said:


> I will keep the CEC idea in mind. Unfortunately, my TV requires it to be enabled or eARC won't work (and I need it).


eARC is supposed to be able to work now without needing CEC, but the correct implementation of that seems to be iffy on some devices. If it is a CEC issue, and you need eARC, you can always try something like the Lindy CEC-less adapter which is supposed to stop all CEC calls but still allow for ARC/eARC.


----------



## stardrab

Otto Pylot said:


> eARC is supposed to be able to work now without needing CEC, but the correct implementation of that seems to be iffy on some devices. If it is a CEC issue, and you need eARC, you can always try something like the Lindy CEC-less adapter which is supposed to stop all CEC calls but still allow for ARC/eARC.


Thanks! I did some more experimentation and I think it's much more of a cable issue than anything else. I got another 4-port switch that seems to exhibit different problems (the first has random 2-3 second black screens, but this one loses signal when switching modes). The new one makes it much easier to experiment with different cables. It's been very surprising to see which combinations of cables (one in, one out) work properly with various devices. You would think using something like Zeskit cables all-around would be the ideal, but it is not. I repeated the experiments multiple times and the same combinations of cables always give the same results.

I found that using a Ruipro passive for the output from the switch is the best overall (Snowkids is a close second, Zeskit is worst). I'm going to buy more Ruipro passive (only have one), so I can try it also as input cable, but of the remaining cables I have, Monoprice braided works best for the input from RTX 3080 (Zeskit won't let me go above 60Hz).

I just realized (maybe I am slow here) that there are actually chips in some (all?) HDMI 2.1 cables that influence the signal in some way. Previously I assumed it was just the physical connectors and wires that would influence the cable's performance, but it looks like some cables are using chips that end up being incompatible with some devices.

I plan to buy a few more cables and experiment some more, but after my current rounds with the other switch, I at least feel more confidence that the cables have a real impact and it was not just bad luck/bad timing.


----------



## Otto Pylot

stardrab said:


> Thanks! I did some more experimentation and I think it's much more of a cable issue than anything else. I got another 4-port switch that seems to exhibit different problems (the first has random 2-3 second black screens, but this one loses signal when switching modes). The new one makes it much easier to experiment with different cables. It's been very surprising to see which combinations of cables (one in, one out) work properly with various devices. You would think using something like Zeskit cables all-around would be the ideal, but it is not. I repeated the experiments multiple times and the same combinations of cables always give the same results.
> 
> I found that using a Ruipro passive for the output from the switch is the best overall (Snowkids is a close second, Zeskit is worst). I'm going to buy more Ruipro passive (only have one), so I can try it also as input cable, but of the remaining cables I have, Monoprice braided works best for the input from RTX 3080 (Zeskit won't let me go above 60Hz).
> 
> I just realized (maybe I am slow here) that there are actually chips in some (all?) HDMI 2.1 cables that influence the signal in some way. Previously I assumed it was just the physical connectors and wires that would influence the cable's performance, but it looks like some cables are using chips that end up being incompatible with some devices.
> 
> I plan to buy a few more cables and experiment some more, but after my current rounds with the other switch, I at least feel more confidence that the cables have a real impact and it was not just bad luck/bad timing.


Active cables, be they copper only or hybrid fiber, have chipsets in the connector ends for error correction, timing, etc so that the "boosted" signal, for want of a better term, is the same coming out of the source as it is reaching the sink over long distances. This is very important for the higher video standards that need more than 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0). That's why the active cables are directional, source to sink, and are labeled as such either with arrows or Source and Sink(TV) imprinted on the connectors. Passive cable do not have active chipsets that require a little bit of power from the source end to work. Their construction is such that they can handle the higher video standards just fine but only over a shorter distance, usually 5m (16'). The shorter the distance the better.

With passive cables, the wire gauge is a bit thicker in order to handle the bandwidth but that makes the cables stiffer and a bit more difficult to work with. That's why we say be very mindful of bend radius (no sharp 90º bends or crimps in the cable) and make sure there is no under strain on the HDMI port. You want the cable nice and snug but not hanging off of the port. 

I'm a bit surprised about Zeskit. Did you use the Maya Series or the Lite Series? Both are certified for UHS HDMI, only the Lite is a bit more flexible.

It could still be the fact that you are using a switch. HDMI doesn't like "breaks" in the HDMI path and the switch just might be the issue. I don't know how well a switch (managed or unmanaged, powered or unpowered) would work with an active cable because of the power requirements for active cables. I don't use or need HDMI switches so have no experience there.


----------



## NOAMattD

Amazon.com: Maxonar 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft, (Certified) 48Gbps Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable, Rated CL3, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], eARC HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, Apple TV 4K : Electronics


Buy Maxonar 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft, (Certified) 48Gbps Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable, Rated CL3, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], eARC HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, Apple TV 4K: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



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Looking for a 15m/50 ft cable for an eventual upgrade, this Maxonar cable is more expensive than the others but has a $30 off coupon right now and claims to be certified with the QR label and everything. No reviews yet on the 50ft length though.


----------



## Otto Pylot

NOAMattD said:


> Amazon.com: Maxonar 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft, (Certified) 48Gbps Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable, Rated CL3, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], eARC HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, Apple TV 4K : Electronics
> 
> 
> Buy Maxonar 8K HDMI Fiber Optic Cable 50ft, (Certified) 48Gbps Ultra High Speed HDMI 2.1 Cable, Rated CL3, [email protected], [email protected] [email protected], eARC HDCP 2.2 & 2.3 Compatible with PS5, Xbox Series X, Apple TV 4K: HDMI Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for a 15m/50 ft cable for an eventual upgrade, this Maxonar cable is more expensive than the others but has a $30 off coupon right now and claims to be certified with the QR label and everything. No reviews yet on the 50ft length though.


Maxonar makes good cables. I haven't tested their 50' version, nor have I seen any independent reviews yet so let us know how it works out. It it has the QR label on the packaging that's about the best you can do, but not a 100% guarantee.


----------



## Webmonkey

Otto Pylot said:


> At 1m (3') practically any well made High Speed HDMI cable should work. You don't need an active cable, copper or hybrid fiber. If you want an ATC certified, Ultra High Speed HDMI cable at 1m - 1.5m look at Zeskit Lite, Ruipro, Maxonar, etc. Those cables, and a few more are listed in my Short HDMI Cable list: Short List of HDMI Cables .
> 
> Reversing a passive cable makes no difference. It's only with an active cable that it makes a difference.
> 
> 4:4:4 is really only good for some games and if you use your tv as a monitor. For movies, I doubt if you could visually tell the difference. Both of my HTS's use the ATV4k as the main streaming source and it's defaulted to YCbCR, 4:4:4 and there are no issues with pq, using the receivers as the hub.
> 
> My Panasonic BDT-210 (an old but reliable blu-ray player) is set to YCbCr 4:2:2, 24p and has zero issues. The UHD/BD player is set to YCbCr, 24p, but I need to put a disk in to see what the color space.
> 
> I use the Ruipro, passive UHS HDMI cables on the OLED system and the Zeskit Lite, passive UHS HDMI cables on the QLED system. <3m length on both systems. Just give yourself some extra length so you don't have any sharp bends in the cables or undue strain on the HDMI ports.


I returned the otherwise certified SVS cable and got a simple HDMI 2.1 from Inakustik. Works perfekt.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Webmonkey said:


> I returned the otherwise certified SVS cable and got a simple HDMI 2.1 from Inakustik. Works perfekt.


The SVS cable must've been either defective or a knock-off. You should't have an issue at 3'. But the best cable is the one that works 😉.


----------



## wrathloki

What’s the current best option for full 2.1 bandwidth at 25 feet? I want to run a new cable to replace my current 25 foot cable that runs between PC and TV.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> What’s the current best option for full 2.1 bandwidth at 25 feet? I want to run a new cable to replace my current 25 foot cable that runs between PC and TV.


See my Short List of HDMI Cables. It's a listing of certified, UHS HDMI cables that have worked well for AVS members. It is not a recommendation of one specific cable but is a good place to start. Is this an in-wall installation? Do you have a conduit in place? Certification is not a guarantee of device compatibility but it is about as good as you can get. I would lay your cable out on the floor, whichever one you get, and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. ALL cables can have production issues so its best to test.


----------



## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> See my Short List of HDMI Cables. It's a listing of certified, UHS HDMI cables that have worked well for AVS members. It is not a recommendation of one specific cable but is a good place to start. Is this an in-wall installation? Do you have a conduit in place? Certification is not a guarantee of device compatibility but it is about as good as you can get. I would lay your cable out on the floor, whichever one you get, and thoroughly test it prior to final installation to make sure it meets your needs and expectations. ALL cables can have production issues so its best to test.


It’s going through a brush plate in one wall, down into the basement and up through a brush plate in another wall. I already have a 25’ HDMI cable run there but it’s not fast enough for 4k120 unfortunately. But yes, testing it first is good advice and I will definitely be doing that before I run it.


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> It’s going through a brush plate in one wall, down into the basement and up through a brush plate in another wall. I already have a 25’ HDMI cable run there but it’s not fast enough for 4k120 unfortunately. But yes, testing it first is good advice and I will definitely be doing that before I run it.


Good. Sounds like installation might not be too difficult then. Just don't pull the cable from the connector ends if you don't have a pull string already installed. Just tape the old cable to the body of the new cable, secure the connector ends, and pull slowly. Be mindful of bend radius. Hybrid fiber cables are very flexible and tough but you still want to keep the bends gentle.


----------



## pawelfudala23

Hello, I need an hdmi 2.1 cable with a length of 15 meters to work on rtx 3080 and lg oled b9 tv, I want it to work 4k 120hz hdr vrr gsync please help.


----------



## Ratman

pawelfudala23 said:


> Hello, I need an hdmi 2.1 cable with a length of 15 meters to work on rtx 3080 and lg oled b9 tv, I want it to work 4k 120hz hdr vrr gsync please help.





Otto Pylot said:


> See my Short List of HDMI Cables.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Is there any certified micro HDMI 2.1 cable with 48 Gbps signal?


----------



## Otto Pylot

AVR Enthu said:


> Is there any certified micro HDMI 2.1 cable with 48 Gbps signal?


That question has come up before and I haven't been able to find any yet. But, to be honest, I haven't looked in a long time. I do know that there was one mfr that was looking into it but there were some technical issues, and the ROI was probably not worth it because the market is so small for micro-UHS HDMI cables.


----------



## AVR Enthu

Otto Pylot said:


> ROI was probably not worth it because the market is so small for micro-UHS HDMI cables.


If vendors produce items with those ports, such as thin laptops, portable monitors and cameras, where there's no place for full port, there should be cables and adapters too.


----------



## niterida

Not sure if this is the rgith thread for this question but here goes anyway :
If I have a Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable will it still be classed as Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable if I use a $2 right angle connector to plug it into my projector ?
Or will it break the chain and not get the full benefit of my cable ?


----------



## Ratman

niterida said:


> If I have a Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable will it still be classed as Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable if I use a $2 right angle connector to plug it into my projector ?


Try a right angle connector. If it works to your satisfaction, who cares if it's "still classified"?


----------



## Otto Pylot

niterida said:


> Not sure if this is the rgith thread for this question but here goes anyway :
> If I have a Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable will it still be classed as Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable if I use a $2 right angle connector to plug it into my projector ?
> Or will it break the chain and not get the full benefit of my cable ?


What you connect it to doesn't change the cable characteristics. The adapter itself MAY affect the signal propagation because it can be considered a "break" in the HDMI path, but there are lots of folks who use "garden variety" angle connectors with no issues so, as @Ratman says, if it works, who cares if the adapter is certified, rectified, or bonafide? If the cable is active, that may be an issue with the adapter but all you can do is try.


----------



## niterida

Ratman said:


> Try a right angle connector. If it works to your satisfaction, who cares if it's "still classified"?





Otto Pylot said:


> if it works, who cares if the adapter is certified, rectified, or bonafide?


I have a non-high speed cable and a right angle connector at the moment and can't get full functionality out of the connection and was concerned that if I bought a high speed cable it still wouldn't work with the connector in the stream that isn't high speed.


----------



## Ratman

niterida said:


> I have a non-high speed cable and a right angle connector at the moment and can't get full functionality out of the connection and was concerned that if I bought a high speed cable it still wouldn't work with the connector in the stream that isn't high speed.


Won't know until you try. 🤷‍♀️
You'll need a proper cable regardless.

Does/did your "non high speed" cable work as desired prior without the right-angle adapter?


----------



## niterida

Ratman said:


> Won't know until you try. 🤷‍♀️
> You'll need a proper cable regardless.
> 
> Does/did your "non high speed" cable work as desired prior without the right-angle adapter?


No it doesn't - that is why I wanted to upgrade it.

I was curious to know as much as anything, since if the connector doesn't work I can always run without it if I have to - just won't look as good.


----------



## Otto Pylot

niterida said:


> No it doesn't - that is why I wanted to upgrade it.
> 
> I was curious to know as much as anything, since if the connector doesn't work I can always run without it if I have to - just won't look as good.


It's always best to use as little "extraneous" connections as possible. Ideally, the most reliable connection is a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, or extenders in-between. But there's alway exceptions to that rule.

As a side note, if you're not using a High Speed HDMI cable you should probably think about upgrading it. Depending on what you want to push and how long of a run it is you might not need to go with a hybrid fiber cable and may be able to get by with a newer, passive High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet. Certified or not is up to you but most prefer to use certified cables with the QR label. Premium High Speed HDMI for the HDMI 2.0 option sets or Ultra High Speed HDMI for the HDMI 2.1 option sets.


----------



## Ratman

niterida said:


> I was curious to know as much as anything,


We are also. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## niterida

Ratman said:


> We are also. Let us know how it works out.


I will - might be a while though becuase I can't actually fit the right angle connector in at the moment as it hits the projector mount


----------



## SteveROntario

What kind of longevity are people seeing from their Cable Matter cables? I have a 10 m active cable that I bought in late January and it lasted about 6 months before it started dropping out. At the time I thought it was an overheating GPU that was dropping out but I don't think that is the case now unless the GPU cooked the cable. I've since tested cable with a new GPU and my laptop and can't get a signal to stay up for more than a second before it goes down.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SteveROntario said:


> What kind of longevity are people seeing from their Cable Matter cables? I have a 10 m active cable that I bought in late January and it lasted about 6 months before it started dropping out. At the time I thought it was an overheating GPU that was dropping out but I don't think that is the case now unless the GPU cooked the cable. I've since tested cable with a new GPU and my laptop and can't get a signal to stay up for more than a second before it goes down.


All active cables, especially hybrid fiber can fail after a period of time. That's just the nature of the beast. I know of folks who have been using hybrid fiber cables for a couple of years without issues. See my: Short List of HDMI Cables for a listing of hybrid fibers cables that have worked well for AVS members and try another mfr if you feel you need to.

Does the GPU/laptop feel unusually warm after a period of time? If not, I would try a voltage inserter to to make sure that enough current is getting to the HDMI cable before you replace the cable. Voltage inserters are supposed to be included with hybrid fiber cables per HDMI.org in case they are needed but a lot of cable mfrs ignore that and HDMI.org has no real regulatory authority over the mfrs.

This is one of reasons we stress conduit if your cabling is in-wall. That makes swapping out cables for replacement, upgrade, etc so much easier and safer.


----------



## SteveROntario

Otto Pylot said:


> All active cables, especially hybrid fiber can fail after a period of time. That's just the nature of the beast. I know of folks who have been using hybrid fiber cables for a couple of years without issues. See my: Short List of HDMI Cables for a listing of hybrid fibers cables that have worked well for AVS members and try another mfr if you feel you need to.
> 
> Does the GPU/laptop feel unusually warm after a period of time? If not, I would try a voltage inserter to to make sure that enough current is getting to the HDMI cable before you replace the cable. Voltage inserters are supposed to be included with hybrid fiber cables per HDMI.org in case they are needed but a lot of cable mfrs ignore that and HDMI.org has no real regulatory authority over the mfrs.
> 
> This is one of reasons we stress conduit if your cabling is in-wall. That makes swapping out cables for replacement, upgrade, etc so much easier and safer.


I can't really say much about temperature other than the GPU fans failed around the same time I began having video dropout problems but never felt around to see what was getting hot. The cable problem could be unrelated or related but at this point the cable itself is basically permanently dropped out regardless of source. The TV can tell something is connected to it once in a while but it's so brief you can't even move the mouse to do anything and it's down for several minutes before it may or may not reappear.
I was not aware of the power injectors, I will hunt one down and get it installed with the hope that it can get some sort of value out of it. If it rejuvenates my cable I'll be sure to give an update.  
In my case the cable is mainly installed in an unfinished basement area where the server lives and pops up into the family room so it is easy to replace but it costs money. If I have to spend 100 bucks a year on HDMI cables I'd like to look at other options so that is why I'm curious to know other's results with this brand cable.
Cheers, Steve


----------



## wrathloki

SteveROntario said:


> I can't really say much about temperature other than the GPU fans failed around the same time I began having video dropout problems but never felt around to see what was getting hot. The cable problem could be unrelated or related but at this point the cable itself is basically permanently dropped out regardless of source. The TV can tell something is connected to it once in a while but it's so brief you can't even move the mouse to do anything and it's down for several minutes before it may or may not reappear.
> I was not aware of the power injectors, I will hunt one down and get it installed with the hope that it can get some sort of value out of it. If it rejuvenates my cable I'll be sure to give an update.
> In my case the cable is mainly installed in an unfinished basement area where the server lives and pops up into the family room so it is easy to replace but it costs money. If I have to spend 100 bucks a year on HDMI cables I'd like to look at other options so that is why I'm curious to know other's results with this brand cable.
> Cheers, Steve


The Ruipro cables have a lifetime warranty, so even if they fail you can get them replaced.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SteveROntario said:


> I can't really say much about temperature other than the GPU fans failed around the same time I began having video dropout problems but never felt around to see what was getting hot. The cable problem could be unrelated or related but at this point the cable itself is basically permanently dropped out regardless of source. The TV can tell something is connected to it once in a while but it's so brief you can't even move the mouse to do anything and it's down for several minutes before it may or may not reappear.
> I was not aware of the power injectors, I will hunt one down and get it installed with the hope that it can get some sort of value out of it. If it rejuvenates my cable I'll be sure to give an update.
> In my case the cable is mainly installed in an unfinished basement area where the server lives and pops up into the family room so it is easy to replace but it costs money. If I have to spend 100 bucks a year on HDMI cables I'd like to look at other options so that is why I'm curious to know other's results with this brand cable.
> Cheers, Steve


You should have received one with your Ruipro cable. Every cable they've sent me had a power inserter. If you didn't get one, I'd call and ask. They aren't that expensive but it might be a good idea to get one that they use. They are a simple device that draws its power from a USB port and outputs a consistent 5v/500mA. The HDMI cable connects to the inserter which is then connected to the source HDMI port.


----------



## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> You should have received one with your Ruipro cable. Every cable they've sent me had a power inserter. If you didn't get one, I'd call and ask. They aren't that expensive but it might be a good idea to get one that they use. They are a simple device that draws its power from a USB port and outputs a consistent 5v/500mA. The HDMI cable connects to the inserter which is then connected to the source HDMI port.


He has a cable matters cable. I was suggesting Ruipro going forward because of the warranty.


----------



## Ellebob

Electrician recently called us and was having problems with an install job where they had 7 50ft Ruipro 8k AOC cables installed going to 4 TVs. 
These were Samsung frame TVs and were just mainly using the cables for ARC with Sonos amps. One TV had a cable box connected and all had one extra cable just in case for future devices

We tested all 7 with Murideo tester. None worked for 8K, 3 passed @18gbs but not at 24gbs and the rest only at 10gbs but only one worked with ARC. ARC uses the copper wires in the cable and not fiber optic. We tried different power supplies with the cables in case the problem was Samsung's one connect box USB ports. Long story short we couldn't get them to work. 

Electrician replaced all 7 cables with Vanco models which tested and worked fine but we're only 4k. Client didn't need 8K as none of his TVs were 8k. Electrician used 8K thinking it would future proof. 

I know Ruipro has a good reputation here on AVS and this is the first time I have run into them and they were already installed when we arrived. So, I didn't get a chance to test them before install. I don't know if this was just a bad batch or they damage easily when pulling through conduit (thank god we trained this electrician well and they use conduit). But, I wouldn't recommend them after this experience. YMMV.


----------



## wrathloki

Ellebob said:


> Electrician recently called us and was having problems with an install job where they had 7 50ft Ruipro 8k AOC cables installed going to 4 TVs.
> These were Samsung frame TVs and were just mainly using the cables for ARC with Sonos amps. One TV had a cable box connected and all had one extra cable just in case for future devices
> 
> We tested all 7 with Murideo tester. None worked for 8K, 3 passed @18gbs but not at 24gbs and the rest only at 10gbs but only one worked with ARC. ARC uses the copper wires in the cable and not fiber optic. We tried different power supplies with the cables in case the problem was Samsung's one connect box USB ports. Long story short we couldn't get them to work.
> 
> Electrician replaced all 7 cables with Vanco models which tested and worked fine but we're only 4k. Client didn't need 8K as none of his TVs were 8k. Electrician used 8K thinking it would future proof.
> 
> I know Ruipro has a good reputation here on AVS and this is the first time I have run into them and they were already installed when we arrived. So, I didn't get a chance to test them before install. I don't know if this was just a bad batch or they damage easily when pulling through conduit (thank god we trained this electrician well and they use conduit). But, I wouldn't recommend them after this experience. YMMV.


Were they using the included USB power adapter?


----------



## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> He has a cable matters cable. I was suggesting Ruipro going forward because of the warranty.


You are correct. Cables Matters do not include the voltage inserter, Ruipro does, and they have the lifetime warranty. I was thinking of another poster. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Ellebob

wrathloki said:


> Were they using the included USB power adapter?


Yes. They first tried plugging into TVs USB ports as there is limited space. These were frame TVs with back boxes behind them to hide the connect box. We tried the included one and then some others with no succes.


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Yes. They first tried plugging into TVs USB ports as there is limited space. These were frame TVs with back boxes behind them to hide the connect box. We tried the included one and then some others with no succes.


Technically, the power inserters should be connected at the source side. Did they try that as well? Were the connections source to sink only with nothing in-between (wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc)? Did the installer pull the cable from the body of the cable and not the connector ends?


----------



## Ellebob

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically, the power inserters should be connected at the source side. Did they try that as well? Were the connections source to sink only with nothing in-between (wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc)? Did the installer pull the cable from the body of the cable and not the connector ends?


We tried both ends and the connections were direct source to sink. Myself and one of our other guys were there for 2.5 days. Not all that time was trying to get these to work but a LOT of it was, probably80% of the time. We had to get the Sonos up and running as well as the network but those go relatively quick. We were not there when they pulled the cable but two of the cables hadn't been pulled yet and were still in the box. Those did not pass testing either. We tried connecting them anyway because we were just trying to get ARC running and it didn't work. On our 3rd day there the electrician brought the Vanco cables I mentioned and everything worked fine. I wish we just listened to the testers and changed the cables a lot earlier.

We tested with short passive cables just to make sure everything worked fine. We also tested a 10m Bullet Train AOC cable we had in our truck to make sure that the equipment wasn't having an issue with an AOC cable. That worked fine but it was only 35ft and not long enough. Plus I don't think the electrician wanted to spend that much for 7 cables. We also had a 4K Murideo test monitor we substituted to help diagnose the problem. In the end, the cable testers were correct, the cables didn't work for 8K, some for 4K but most only for 1080 and they were giving problems with ARC which was the main function for 4 of them. We did get one working for ARC with the Sonos but all the time spent wasn't instilling confidence in these cables, so all got replaced.

Not working for ARC doesn't totally surprise me as I know other manufacturers state in their specs that ARC/eARC only work for models less than 10 or 20 meters depending on the brand. This is because the ARC/eARC is running on a copper line and not fiber. I don't know whar Ruipro rates its cables for when using ARC/eARC maybe 50ft was too long for ARC/eARC with their cables.

If some are asking why not convert all the wires to fiber optic? Well, they are being developed and will be out soon, it is called an HDMI fiber extender and it will be very expensive. It needs chipsets on both sides of the cable to be powered as well as a different chipset. For practical reasons the circuitry can't fit into the head of an HDMI cable like the current AOC cables. I don't have a problem using fiber extenders but hopefully in the future their price becomes more reasonable.


----------



## Otto Pylot

@Ellebob I have a small write up about the pros and cons of pure fiber for HDMI that I can post again if you are interested. That would be the way to go but as you mentioned they are expensive and are just not ready for the consumer market. Maybe some day. HDBT, using solid copper core CAT-6 (non-CCA/CCS) cabling would be another option for long runs but there are limitations there as well. 

ARC/eARC was difficult for a lot of mfrs so reliability was limited to about 10m-15m for hybrid fiber. That has gotten better with the newer generations of cables by a few mfrs but even then, anything past that magical 50' mark is still a bit of trial and error.


----------



## Ellebob

Sure I am always willing to find out more. I have a friend that works with HDMI and if I date myself here. I used to work at IBM, MANY years ago and worked with 8b/10b which is the precursor to DVI/HDMI.

IMHO, HDMI is a terrible interface that was forced onto the public. When you are talking about cabling you should design an interface that is somewhat future proof. It will never be 100% future proof but at least plan for some expandability. It's like building a town water system and only making it good enough for your community's needs now and not putting in bigger water pipes to allow for expansion. HDMI has what 15+ versions and has went from 5gbs up to 48gbs in various increments.

Not to mention the physical properties stink. First anything that will be running through walls should have connectors you can attach, so you are not trying to pull the connector through the wall. Similar to Cat 5/6, Coax, and fiber. It should have been a locking connector, and it should be able to go a very reasonable length so any home application it would not be a problem. In a nutshell, it should have been fiber from the start as that technology has been around well before HDMI. Instead we are still dealing with HDMI problems and has been installers' nightmare for almost 20 years.


----------



## SteveROntario

Ellebob said:


> Sure I am always willing to find out more. I have a friend that works with HDMI and if I date myself here. I used to work at IBM, MANY years ago and worked with 8b/10b which is the precursor to DVI/HDMI.
> 
> IMHO, HDMI is a terrible interface that was forced onto the public. When you are talking about cabling you should design an interface that is somewhat future proof. It will never be 100% future proof but at least plan for some expandability. It's like building a town water system and only making it good enough for your community's needs now and not putting in bigger water pipes to allow for expansion. HDMI has what 15+ versions and has went from 5gbs up to 48gbs in various increments.
> 
> Not to mention the physical properties stink. First anything that will be running through walls should have connectors you can attach, so you are not trying to pull the connector through the wall. Similar to Cat 5/6, Coax, and fiber. It should have been a locking connector, and it should be able to go a very reasonable length so any home application it would not be a problem. In a nutshell, it should have been fiber from the start as that technology has been around well before HDMI. Instead we are still dealing with HDMI problems and has been installers' nightmare for almost 20 years.


Cleerline has an interesting product where you can separate the HDMI ends from the cable for installation purposes. 
I have no concept of cost but it seems to be a legitimate product as it comes with a plenum rating and cULus rated unlike most of the stuff sold on Amazon. I think about 90% of the wiring sold on Amazon does not meet the codes required for its intended application.
8K HDMI Active Optical Cables - Cleerline SSF Fiber (cleerlinefiber.com)


----------



## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> Sure I am always willing to find out more. I have a friend that works with HDMI and if I date myself here. I used to work at IBM, MANY years ago and worked with 8b/10b which is the precursor to DVI/HDMI.
> 
> IMHO, HDMI is a terrible interface that was forced onto the public. When you are talking about cabling you should design an interface that is somewhat future proof. It will never be 100% future proof but at least plan for some expandability. It's like building a town water system and only making it good enough for your community's needs now and not putting in bigger water pipes to allow for expansion. HDMI has what 15+ versions and has went from 5gbs up to 48gbs in various increments.
> 
> Not to mention the physical properties stink. First anything that will be running through walls should have connectors you can attach, so you are not trying to pull the connector through the wall. Similar to Cat 5/6, Coax, and fiber. It should have been a locking connector, and it should be able to go a very reasonable length so any home application it would not be a problem. In a nutshell, it should have been fiber from the start as that technology has been around well before HDMI. Instead we are still dealing with HDMI problems and has been installers' nightmare for almost 20 years.


I agree.


----------



## Otto Pylot

SteveROntario said:


> Cleerline has an interesting product where you can separate the HDMI ends from the cable for installation purposes.
> I have no concept of cost but it seems to be a legitimate product as it comes with a plenum rating and cULus rated unlike most of the stuff sold on Amazon. I think about 90% of the wiring sold on Amazon does not meet the codes required for its intended application.
> 8K HDMI Active Optical Cables - Cleerline SSF Fiber (cleerlinefiber.com)


DFO (Detachable Fiber Optic) cables have been around for some time. They do work but have longevity issues, at least as reported by actual users. The Cleerline products are probably well made, CL-rated cables, but they are not ATC certified if that's important. For long run,s one still has to consider bend radius and that's where a conduit comes into play.


----------



## Ellebob

Bullet Train, Cleerline, Ethereal all say they can be used as a regular fiber line but none of those companies have any 8k extenders that use fiber and you can't just put a new HDMI connector head on a cable. AVPro does make a 4K 18gbs HDMI extender you could use but it's MSRP is $1800. Granted it can go over mile. Until some more affordable extenders come out that can do 8K I don't see it as a viable solution for most homes.


----------



## Killed_by_Death

I have about half a dozen of these that I got cheaply, about $6/each & they are properly certified by HDMI.org, & they've been able to do UHD & HDR.






HDMI Cable-Shenzhen Sniokco Technology Co., Ltd.


Sniokco is a leading brand which provides a wide range of practical audio&video cables, smartphone accessories to customers with sturdy material, simple design, clear color. We're driven by a passion to create innovative, high performance products that will bring you an easier&enjoyable digital...



www.sniokco.net





My system isn't 120 FPS or 4320p, so haven't tested that limit, but they've been great for UHD blu-rays at 60 FPS & streaming devices in UHD at 60 FPS.


----------



## Ellebob

The link showed a 6 foot cable. At 6 feet most cables will work fine. It is longer lengths where HDMI has problems. As you increase the length impedance and capacitance become the major problems.


----------



## Killed_by_Death

I was interested in purchasing 1 Meter lengths, but they're so uncommon that they actually cost more than 2 Meter lengths.
Luckily I was able to buy CAT-6 UTP wire in 1 Meter lengths for a reasonable price & in various colors.

I went to Best Buy & got one of their Audio-Quest cables & compared to those I purchased above, zero difference.
It's kind of funny that their cables have little directional arrows on them.


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## Otto Pylot

Killed_by_Death said:


> I was interested in purchasing 1 Meter lengths, but they're so uncommon that they actually cost more than 2 Meter lengths.
> Luckily I was able to buy CAT-6 UTP wire in 1 Meter lengths for a reasonable price & in various colors.
> 
> I went to Best Buy & got one of their Audio-Quest cables & compared to those I purchased above, zero difference.
> It's kind of funny that their cables have little directional arrows on them.


The directional arrows usually indicate an active cables and the direction they should be connected, source to sink (tv). 1m, certified UHS passive HDMI cables are not difficult to find. I use a couple of Zeskit Lite cables on one of my systems. I do agree about the AQ cables. Their cost is just not justifiable when other cables for considerably less work just as well.


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## Otto Pylot

Ellebob said:


> The link showed a 6 foot cable. At 6 feet most cables will work fine. It is longer lengths where HDMI has problems. As you increase the length impedance and capacitance become the major problems.


I agree. Most well made HDMI cables at lengths less than 10' will work just fine. Active cables under about 15' are an overkill. 16' is the current maximum certification length for passive cables. For runs longer than 15'-16', an active cable is recommended (copper only or hybrid fiber).

Corrected my comment about active cables to make it a bit more clear.


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## SteveROntario

Cable Matters has agreed to warranty my dead cable so I need to mail it back and they'll ship me a replacement once I confirm mine is in the mail back to them. I hope they don't mind the 2 piece cable they are going to get...I couldn't get it out of the joists as I installed some coax and CAT 6 in the same hole. :| Looks like it had 7 conductors in it and a bundle of fibres, possibly 4.


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## Otto Pylot

@Ellebob

1. Pure Optical requires an external power supply at the source side to deliver 150mA-160mA for the total cable.

2. Construction cost is usually higher for pure fiber because extra chipsets are needed on the PCBA's for communication. Hybrid fiber uses copper wiring for communication. However, hybrid fiber costs go up as the cable length increases due to the cost of copper wiring.

3. Fiber only will be good for distances around 30m or longer but will probably need fiber extenders. However, this will be for AV-Pro marketing used at system integration, not home use.

4. Zinc-alloy is used at the source and sink side to dissipate heat, which is important for the RTX3080/3090 cards because they can generate a lot of heat. It draws the heat from the inside to the outside. That's why the connectors can feel hot. Both cable types use the same type of construction. Heat testing is usually done at 50ºC for 10 hours. There is also a heat escape blade inside the HDMI housing as well to lower the temperature.

Hybrid fiber draws its power from the Source side (5v/50mA). Sink side (Display) has lower power requirements because it is receiving the signal to the PD (Photonics Detector) so no power draw is needed.

Pure fiber requires 150mA-160mA for the total cable length. Which means the source side needs to deliver 100mA-110mA and the sink side 50mA-55mA to make up the 150mA-160mA requirement.

5v/50mA is the minimum HDMI specification, but some devices are designed to deliver a bit more with some measuring around 150mA. However, that is not consistent across the various mfrs and chip mfrs so an external power source is necessary to guarantee the power requirement.


*STANDARD HYBRID FIBER

Source:* Driver + VCSEL
*Display:* Receiver + PD
4 optical fibers for TMDS, 7 copper wires for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID

*STANDARD PURE FIBER ONLY

Source:* Driver + VCSEL, DDC Converter Chip
*Display:* Receiver + PD, DDC Receiving + PD
4 optical fibers for TMDS, 4 optical fibers for DDC/eARC/HDCP/EDID
and HDMI 2.1 options

VCSEL: (Vertical-Cavity Surface-Emitter Laser) - a semiconductor laser diode that emits light from its surface rather than its edge.

DDC: Display Data Channel - a communication channel used in HDMI to implement the E-DDC channel (Enhanced-DDC).

TMDS: Transition-Minimized Differential Signaling - for transmitting high speed serial data.


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## Otto Pylot

SteveROntario said:


> Cable Matters has agreed to warranty my dead cable so I need to mail it back and they'll ship me a replacement once I confirm mine is in the mail back to them. I hope they don't mind the 2 piece cable they are going to get...I couldn't get it out of the joists as I installed some coax and CAT 6 in the same hole. :| Looks like it had 7 conductors in it and a bundle of fibres, possibly 4.
> View attachment 3368106


Hybrid fiber has 4 optical fibers and 7 copper wires. It's unfortunate that the cable broke but at least Cables Matter will replace it. Another reason to use 1.5"-2.0" flexible conduit if at all possible 😉.


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## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> I agree. Most well made HDMI cables at lengths less than 10' will work just fine. Active cables under about 15' are an overkill. 16' is the current maximum certification length for passive cables. For runs longer than 15'-16', an active cable is recommended (copper only or hybrid fiber).
> 
> Corrected my comment about active cables to make it a bit more clear.


You’d think so but I had a couple of 3ft Monoprice “2.1” cables that failed to even pass a 4k60 Dolby vision signal. Granted this was before anything was certified but still.


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## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> You’d think so but I had a couple of 3ft Monoprice “2.1” cables that failed to even pass a 4k60 Dolby vision signal. Granted this was before anything was certified but still.


Monoprice, like Amazon, is just a reseller and quite often they do not have the time and/or staff to verify the accuracy of the mfrs' claims. Any cable that is listed as "HDMI 2.1" is suspicious. The descriptions are very carefully worded. That's why I prefer to purchase or test cables directly from the mfr.


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## wrathloki

Otto Pylot said:


> Monoprice, like Amazon, is just a reseller and quite often they do not have the time and/or staff to verify the accuracy of the mfrs' claims. Any cable that is listed as "HDMI 2.1" is suspicious. The descriptions are very carefully worded. That's why I prefer to purchase or test cables directly from the mfr.


That’s part of the whole birds nest mess of HDMI of late. 99.9% of users aren’t that knowledgeable about the cables. I for one didn’t know that about Monoprice, all I knew is that up until the HDMI 2.0 era they were considered to be solid. Anyways, at least we have some certified stuff now but some of that doesn’t seem like it deserves the certification due to QC issues.


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## Otto Pylot

wrathloki said:


> That’s part of the whole birds nest mess of HDMI of late. 99.9% of users aren’t that knowledgeable about the cables. I for one didn’t know that about Monoprice, all I knew is that up until the HDMI 2.0 era they were considered to be solid. Anyways, at least we have some certified stuff now but some of that doesn’t seem like it deserves the certification due to QC issues.


Monoprice is still a good place to purchase cables, and so is Amazon, but you need to be a wise shopper and carefully read the product descriptions. Most just regurgitate the basic HDMI option sets in a way that makes their product seem like the best in the world. That's why I didn't include cables from Monoprice or Amazon in my Short List of HDMI Cables because they are resellers, not mfrs. Certified cables are the way to go but certification does not guarantee compatibility, and all cable mfrs have had issues with supply of quality components from their sources. Some mfrs actually QC each and every cable they mfr for total compliance, others batch test and determine pass/fail to the batch. And batch numbers can vary significantly from mfr to mfr. All cable mfrs will have cables that fail and still sneak thru the QC/QA process.


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## Mikesterz

This may be a little off topic but would it be recommended that we keep hdmi cables away from other wires and cables, especially speaker and electrical wires? I’m thinking even the ultra high speed certified cables can get some interference that may cause them to fail or other issues like delayed switching?


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## Otto Pylot

Mikesterz said:


> This may be a little off topic but would it be recommended that we keep hdmi cables away from other wires and cables, especially speaker and electrical wires? I’m thinking even the ultra high speed certified cables can get some interference that may cause them to fail or other issues like delayed switching?


That's a good question that comes up from time to time. I don't think speaker wires are an issue but HV wiring may be. I certainly wouldn't tie the wiring together. However, most newer HDMI cables from known mfrs are built fairly well (like hybrid fiber cables) so interference is not like it used to be. To be sure, I would keep LV wiring (HDMI/speaker cables) away from HV wiring. If you are having issues, it's probably something else other than EMI interference.


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## Ellebob

In general because of the twisted wires they are less prone to picking up interference but not impossible. Some of the flat cables are more susceptible because they are not twisted and the straight wires act more like antennas. I have seen it happen and light dimmers tend to be big offenders for noisy electrical lines.

Good practice is to try and keep electrical and low voltage at least a foot apart and cross at 90 degrees. Keep distances where there is no other option to keep them a foot apart as short as possible. Having electrical on one side of stud and low voltage on other can also help. These are just good guidelines and also go with national electrical code NEC.


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## SimoxTav

I would like to share my experience (still ongoing):
I recently moved to my new house and I did several restoration works for in wall cabling. I ended up putting coax, USB, ETH CAT6 UTP and HDMI 2.1 in the same conduit and I did the same pattern for 4 rooms. Power wires run on different conduits.
I bought 4 TVs, all TCL (2x C63 and 2x C73) I took Feizlink hybrid cables with 8mt and 10mt lengths. I connected those to my PC with my honest RTX 3060Ti FE and started testing. 

With the C63 TVs, that AFAIK have 2.0 bandwidth HDMI ports with 2.1 features (ALLM and VRR), no issues at all. When I connected the PC to the C73 (that have 2.1 bandwidth ports), instead I experienced several signal drops, without a pattern. Sometimes it works for hours sometimes every few seconds or completely gone.

If I choose HDMI compatibility to 1.4 the signal is there but obviously 8bit+dithering, no HDR, 60fps only. However what I noticed that even in 1.4 mode, some signal blackouts are triggered by turning on/off an electromagnetic relay with a lamp (on a completely different room and line than the TV and in the same box of other relays that don't affect signal). The relay disturbs only HDMI and these issues remain there even with coax, eth and USB unplugged.

Initially thinking about FRL issues I ended up buying and testing these cables (laying on the floor rather than in wall, with these results):


Phoossno gen 1 10m: (same results as Feizlink, intermittent signal without a specific pattern)
Phoossno gen 2 7.5m: (completely black screen, no signal at all)
KableDirekt 10m: (completely black screen, no signal at all)
KableDirekt 1.5m (passive cable, works perfectly, however I cannot put my PC beside the TV in the living room, so it is more a safe check than a solution)

Tomorrow I will receive:
Ruipro certified 10m
Ruipro not certified 10m
Cable matters certified 10m

Rather than electronics compatibility or shielding issues, now I think I need a voltage inserter (and I will receive one on Saturday).

These are my last resorts since I haven't any other 2.1 source to test (just to check that isn't the RTX3060Ti faulty in delivering power)


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## Otto Pylot

Technically speaking, the power inserter is supposed to be shipped with all hybrid fiber cables per HDMI.org but a lot of cable mfrs don't to that. You should receive one with the Ruipro cable(s). Keep in mind that the power inserter is for use IF you need it. I would test the cable without it first. If they work, then don't bother with it.

The electromagnetic relay (not sure what that's doing) is interesting. There shouldn't be any interference, especially if it's on an entirely different electrical circuit that your av equipment is on. Are you sure that your pc has the same HDMI 2.1 option sets that your tv's do? HDMI 2.1 means different things depending on how the mfr wants to spin it.


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## SimoxTav

Otto Pylot said:


> Technically speaking, the power inserter is supposed to be shipped with all hybrid fiber cables per HDMI.org but a lot of cable mfrs don't to that. You should receive one with the Ruipro cable(s). Keep in mind that the power inserter is for use IF you need it. I would test the cable without it first. If they work, then don't bother with it. The electromagnetic relay (not sure what that's doing) is interesting. There shouldn't be any interference, especially if it's on an entirely different electrical circuit that your av equipment is on. Are you sure that your pc has the same HDMI 2.1 option sets that your tv's do? HDMI 2.1 means different things depending on how the mfr wants to spin it.


Thanks for your reply Otto (I read a lot from you across different forums and you opened my mind in the troubleshooting of this issue and analysis of the cables  )

Absolutely I will test inserter only if needed (also because I have no idea yet of the consequences with its usage on the TV and other appliances connected to that).

Talking about the relay switch, it simply controls a light in the hallway and it's physically at least 10mt of cables away from the HDMI source and 6mt from the affected sink (it's this one 26 Series - Step relays 10A - Finder ). To be sure, in my shopping bag I already have a Shelly to replace it since if the noise comes from the coil (but I don't think so since without the lamp connected, powering the coil doesn't affect the signal), using an electronic relay should make disappear the issue (at least that one).
However there is a nearer TV (a C63 one) that completely ignores that relay behavior, so I find it quite funny and it could be a combination of variables rather than the relay itself.

In the meanwhile it came to mind another test I could do after reading that the series 3000 has some issues with long active cables (since I was coming from a 2 monitor FHD setup, one via HDMI and one via display port adapter to HDMI). I took the adapter and plugged the DirektKable 10m that gave 0 signal before and...BAAAM! 1080p60 HDR (limited by the adapter bandwidth itself), however a better result than the cable alone.
I will now test the Phoossno gen2 and probably this will confirm that the HDMI port on the GPU is the one to look at (and this is something I already have in mind how to address).

Talking about the features of the HDMI 2.1 ports have:

*TCL C73*
Full 48Gbps port +
HFR (4k120 HDR10)
ALLM
VRR
CEC
eARC

*TCL C63*
HDMI 2.0b port (18Gbps) +
ALLM
CEC
eARC


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## Otto Pylot

Yeah, do let us know how it works out. HDMI, as you know, is backwards compatible which just means that the signal will negotiate/sync at the common option sets. So, sending HDMI 2.1 option sets to an HDMI 2.0 port should work without issues at whatever option sets the HDMI 2.0 port can handle. However, the EMI issues is an odd one. Could be a shielding issue with the C73 but I'm just guessing here.


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## SimoxTav

Otto Pylot said:


> Yeah, do let us know how it works out. HDMI, as you know, is backwards compatible which just means that the signal will negotiate/sync at the common option sets. So, sending HDMI 2.1 option sets to an HDMI 2.0 port should work without issues at whatever option sets the HDMI 2.0 port can handle. However, the EMI issues is an odd one. Could be a shielding issue with the C73 but I'm just guessing here.


Ok let's share the second batch of tests:


Feizlink 8m (in wall) + voltage inserter (I read on RuiPro docs that is not recommended to use a voltage inserter when a GPU is present), however the results weren't great. No more handshake issues (so no banner showing resolution, refresh, PQ and so on every time) but signal drops as often as before.
Phoossno gen1 and gen2 + voltage inserter: still black screen
Cable Matters 10m: Awesome (a single sub-second drop in video and another one in audio in more than 3h), however the cable is quite rigid due to the braid and both the cable and the connectors seems thick(I don't know if they are also more shielded or not compared to the others). Considering the diameter of the in wall conduit, I think I might have problems laying it without first removing other cables.
Ruipro 8k 10m UNCERTIFIED: King of the hill, no handshake problems, no hiccups, nothing other than perfection after 3h

Since all the tests (except Feizlink) were performed on the floor, now it's time to go in walll with the shortest list possible (Ruipro or Cable Matters), but it means a couple of hours of work so, before starting, I'm interested to understand if going certified with Ruipro might help in wall rather than the uncertified one (tagainst interference per example)

The last tests I will perform to close the matrix scenario is to use a newer DP 1.4 > Hdmi 2.1 adapter with several cables and see if the combo rtx3000+TCL tv prefers the source signal over DP rather than native HDMI.


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## Otto Pylot

@SimoxTav I would use whichever cable worked the most reliably, certified or not. HDMI certification means nothing for in-wall use. What most folks are concerned about for in-wall cabling is if the cable has a CL-rating for fire. CL rating is mostly for HV (High Voltage) wiring of which HDMI cables are not. But, some local ordinance require all in-wall wiring to be fire rated. It's really up to you. All of my audio/video cabling that is in-wall does not have the CL rating.

Being as you have a conduit already installed, and I'm assuming the diameter is wide enough to safely and easily pull the cable (ideally with a pull string), installation should go smoothly. Just make sure you don't pull the cable from the connector ends. Attach your pull string to the body of the cable and secure the connector end so that it doesn't pull back on itself when you go around a corner, and make sure you have enough cable length so that the connection to the HDMI port is not strained, or that you haven't had to make any sharp bends in the cable when pulling around a corner. Oh, and use pass through wall plates for ingress/egress. You really don't want any extra connections between source and sink.

I'm surprised you had issues with the Phoossno and Cable Matters cables. Both are very good cables. I'm also surprised that the Cable Matters cable is so thick and not too flexible. Is it a passive cable by any chance?


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## SimoxTav

Otto Pylot said:


> @SimoxTav I would use whichever cable worked the most reliably, certified or not. HDMI certification means nothing for in-wall use. What most folks are concerned about for in-wall cabling is if the cable has a CL-rating for fire. CL rating is mostly for HV (High Voltage) wiring of which HDMI cables are not. But, some local ordinance require all in-wall wiring to be fire rated. It's really up to you. All of my audio/video cabling that is in-wall does not have the CL rating.
> 
> Being as you have a conduit already installed, and I'm assuming the diameter is wide enough to safely and easily pull the cable (ideally with a pull string), installation should go smoothly. Just make sure you don't pull the cable from the connector ends. Attach your pull string to the body of the cable and secure the connector end so that it doesn't pull back on itself when you go around a corner, and make sure you have enough cable length so that the connection to the HDMI port is not strained, or that you haven't had to make any sharp bends in the cable when pulling around a corner. Oh, and use pass through wall plates for ingress/egress. You really don't want any extra connections between source and sink.
> 
> I'm surprised you had issues with the Phoossno and Cable Matters cables. Both are very good cables. I'm also surprised that the Cable Matters cable is so thick and not too flexible. Is it a passive cable by any chance?


Thank you @Otto Pylot again for the details and tips, always appreciated.
Since at this point non-certified Ruipro nailed it, I'll proceed with its in wall laying (and yes the conduit should be around 1.5" and in the worst case I will pull out the ethernet first to make a bit of room.

Talking about Cable Matters I probably didn't express very well in my previous message (I'm sorry since I'm not English native). I meant it worked almost flawlessly with a single <1s black screen that was almost unperceivable. Talking about its size, probably it's the braid that gives this impression, in the end I found it more stiff rather than thick compared to other manufacturers, but their connectors are surely bigger. (the cable is this one











Phoossno on the other ends surprised me as well, since I readed about the evolution from gen1 to gen2 and its compatibility improvements, I started getting the new one almost sure to solve the issue at first shot.
When it happened the gen1 performed better than the gen2 all my certaints collapsed. The rest is (at this point) simply history.

Thanks again and spend a good New Year's Eve

Simone


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## Otto Pylot

That Cable Matters cable should have worked, but, as we say quite often, ANY cable can have issues from time to time. Being as you tested the cable on the floor first, I'm assuming there were no bends so that couldn't have played a part in the cable issues. No matter. At least you found a cable that will work.

The size of the connectors is dependent upon how small the cable mfr can make the components. They all source the basic HDMI chipsets from the same mfr in Europe but then modify them to suit their needs.


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